Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, August 1st, 2011, 00:10 UTC

[00:10:50]

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[00:14:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: honestly, ive never recovered my database

[00:14:18]

wagnerrp:

i was referring to an edit on the wiki

[00:14:36]

wagnerrp:

that was warning recovering a database could take up to an hour

[00:15:04]

sphery:

ahhh

[00:15:38]

sphery:

it can definitely take a long time depending on how the backup was made

[00:15:53]

sphery:

or if you do a partial restore, it could take significantly longer than a full restore

[00:16:07]

sphery:

since it won't be disabling indices when inserting

[00:16:34]

sphery:

the backups from the backup script should be relatively fast--but on a slow machine...

[00:17:16]

sphery:

I'd say for a backup of a DB the size of mine, it would probably be about 10min on my Athlon X2 5200+

[00:17:37]

wagnerrp:

and yours is going to be larger than most

[00:17:45]

sphery:

I'll time a restore of my production db on my dev box next time it's booted

[00:18:24]

wagnerrp:

an hour just seems a bit ridiculous

[00:18:33]

wagnerrp:

unless the user is running an old P3 or something

[00:18:50]

sphery:

yeah, but probably better we over-estimate than under :)

[00:18:58]

sphery:

after all, some of our users...

[00:19:21]

sphery:

"The wiki said it should finish in 10min, but it took over an hour on my pogoplug..." :)

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[00:20:50]

pyther:

Is it possible to have mythfrontend point to a symlink for a video device?

[00:21:24]

pyther:

I have two tuners and video0 and video1 get flipped around every reboot

[00:21:29]

sphery:

for analog devices, yes

[00:21:29]

wagnerrp:

why would mythfrontend ever point to a symlink for a video device?

[00:21:35]

sphery:

but for digital, no

[00:21:45]

pyther:

How about an IVTV card?

[00:21:52]

sphery:

yeah, that's analog

[00:21:59]

sphery:

just type in the video device path

[00:22:04]

sphery:

(it's an editable combo box)

[00:22:48]

pyther:

ahh nice, perfect

[00:23:20]

k-man:

hmm... fc-list seems to take a long time on osx

[00:26:08]

sphery:

k-man: might need to do an fc-cache -v , first

[00:26:47]

k-man:

sphery, carto was in the list, but I'm at work now and have no BE here to test it with

[00:26:51]

k-man:

so can't test it right now

[00:27:18]

sphery:

cool, hope it works

[00:27:33]

sphery:

is that a FOSS font?

[00:27:43]

sphery:

(not that it's important--I'm just wondering)

[00:27:50]

k-man:

sphery, I think its free as in beer,

[00:27:55]

sphery:

ahh

[00:27:57]

k-man:

justinh suggested it

[00:28:01]

sphery:

oh, I just realized...

[00:28:07]

sphery:

there's an easier way to get the name.

[00:28:20]

k-man:

it looks fairly similar to Arial I think

[00:28:21]

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[00:28:22]

sphery:

turn on <some level> of logging to see what the MythFontManager finds

[00:28:37]

k-man:

sphery, oh... how?

[00:28:53]

k-man:

oh, I just realised I can test the font on my vm here

[00:28:58]

k-man:

instead of doing work

[00:29:48]

sphery:

VB_GUI|VB_FILE for "Loading font file: '%1'" and VB_GUI|VB_FILE|VB_EXTRA for "In file '%1', found font(s) '%2'"

[00:29:55]

sphery:

(someone changed them around since I put them in)

[00:29:56]

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[00:30:01]

sphery:

so -v gui,file,extra

[00:31:16]

sphery:

in master, they're both VB_GUI|VB_FILE (which makes more sense)--so at -v gui,file and --loglevel INFO (which is the default)

[00:31:25]

sphery:

feel free to document that in the wiki :)

[00:31:51]

sphery:

(like, document how to get the name to use for a font from the mythtv logging)

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[00:37:57]

k-man:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Devel . . . _definitions

[00:50:30]

sphery:

thanks

[00:50:48]

k-man:

you are welcome!

[01:01:44]

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[01:05:10]

k-man:

I noticed that all the fonts used (or at least in most places) in MythCenter are bold

[01:05:26]

k-man:

personally I am against widespread use of bold fonts

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[01:05:52]

sphery:

heh, personally, I am against widespread use of MythCenter ;)

[01:06:11]

k-man:

oh

[01:06:16]

sphery:

one day, maybe I'll finally get k-man to build a new theme from scratch...

[01:06:18]

k-man:

can we stop with that argument now?

[01:06:21]

sphery:

heh

[01:06:28]

k-man:

maybe oneday

[01:06:40]

sphery:

just have to try occasionally

[01:06:41]

k-man:

but modifying MythCenter is a good way to start for me

[01:07:03]

sphery:

yeah, it actually is a good way to start--and fixing up issues in mythcenter will make it less bad

[01:07:05]

k-man:

what is wrong with mythcenter iyo?

[01:07:21]

sphery:

so--regardless of what I say--we do appreciate your help

[01:07:38]

k-man:

yeah I know

[01:07:42]

sphery:

I just mainly dislike that it was designed and built for legacy mythtv UI engine

[01:07:54]

k-man:

oh I see

[01:08:16]

sphery:

IMHO, "porting" a theme designed for the old system to the new system means that you end up with something << if you design for the new system

[01:08:25]

k-man:

see my problem is I'm no good and imagining some great awesome theme and then building it

[01:08:35]

sphery:

heh, I can understand that

[01:08:45]

k-man:

what I think I am good at is using something, and realising, ah! this aspect just doesn;t work, I can fix that

[01:08:46]

sphery:

My artistic talent is non-existent

[01:09:11]

k-man:

sameh ere

[01:09:42]

sphery:

I'm thinking of actually starting work on a "new-default" and "new-default-wide" theme--which I /know/ will be so bad that others will just have to get involved and fix

[01:09:48]

k-man:

my wife loves to ask he, what do yuo think of this? do you prefer this version, or this minutely different version? and I'm like err.... they are the same to me

[01:09:52]

sphery:

so I'm thinking that's the best way to get some new users involved

[01:10:04]

sphery:

heh, yeah, I'm the same

[01:10:06]

k-man:

sphery, hehe, good plan

[01:11:37]

k-man:

I'm thinking that given the buttons and selectors often have to hold very wide text, some sort of selector that fades to the same colour as the background on the right hand edge might work well

[01:11:47]

sphery:

Basically, it all comes down to the fact that if you port a theme from the old UI, you end up with something about as good as the old UI. If you design for the new UI, you can far exceed the old theme by taking advantage of the new features--and designing the theme around the features, versus just shoe-horning them into the old theme.

[01:12:12]

k-man:

can you give me an example of that?

[01:13:10]

k-man:

so... can you actually use the "default" theme as a theme? or you need to have a user selected theme on top of that? (even if that theme does not do much?)

[01:13:12]

sphery:

I can give you far more examples of that in the code (since I don't really know theming)

[01:13:15]

sphery:

but it's exactly the same

[01:13:51]

sphery:

for example, mythtv had a logging api. someone wanted to log to the database, too, so submitted a patch for a new database logging api

[01:14:19]

sphery:

but it was shoehorned into what we had--and required making 2 different calls to log to the normal file/console and to the database

[01:15:00]

sphery:

so, finally, Beirdo got motivated and tore out all the old logging stuff and created a new logging API that was designed for both file/console and database (and actually added syslog) logging

[01:15:13]

k-man:

cool

[01:15:24]

sphery:

right now, default can't be selected as a theme (nor can default-wide)

[01:17:22]

sphery:

in the future, if we can get someone to create 2 complete, designed-from-the-ground-up-for-mythui themes (one for square and one for wide screens) with similar style and "neutral" enough design that they won't generally offend (or impress :) anyone, we will likely make them default and default-wide and make them selectable--and make them the actual default themes--and move all other themes to myththemes or external repos

[01:17:40]

sphery:

this is also why I really wanted theme teams to catch on

[01:18:05]

sphery:

I think, though, that I will have to start the first one--and get some people to join out of fear or pity :)

[01:21:00]

k-man:

i'd be happy to assist on that instead of mucking around with default, but tbh, I really don't think I have what it takes to design it

[01:21:07]

k-man:

maybe we need to find a designer to help

[01:21:16]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[01:21:20]

sphery:

I'm definitely not a designer

[01:21:22]

k-man:

once a design was made, then others could step in to code it up

[01:21:33]

sphery:

I'm a hacker (and if I design the theme, it will be a hack and slack)

[01:21:41]

wagnerrp:

wheres an 'idea man' when you need one

[01:21:45]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[01:21:54]

k-man:

err... I meant instead of muckng around with MythCenter

[01:21:57]

** sphery imagines a theme UI with stick men **

[01:22:15]

wagnerrp:

hey, it worked for south park

[01:22:20]

sphery:

k-man: heh, well, much of MythCenter falls back to default (or at least it did before your work :)

[01:22:39]

k-man:

sphery, i've not added anything, just fixing up what is there so far

[01:22:50]

sphery:

ah, cool

[01:22:51]

wagnerrp:

less sticks, more rectangles and circles cut out of cardboard

[01:23:15]

sphery:

I'm going to have to look up this reference

[01:23:28]

wagnerrp:

reference?

[01:23:41]

sphery:

the south park one

[01:23:44]

k-man:

I still haven't been able to get anyone else to look at my mythcenter work

[01:23:50]

wagnerrp:

the cartoon?

[01:23:57]

sphery:

oh, you mean that's how the people are drawn

[01:24:04]

wagnerrp:

first couple seasons, yes

[01:24:19]

sphery:

I was imagining some episode where the characters did something with cardboard box men

[01:24:19]

wagnerrp:

it was a strictly zero budget operation

[01:25:11]

sphery:

k-man: yeah, that's often the biggest challeng... Same thing happens with the code--no one tests/looks at it until it's forced upon them.

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k-man:

I saw a doco about southpark once, and they were saying how once they moved to CG, they had to work to make it look like the old paper cutouts

[01:31:08]

k-man:

I submitted a patch and ticket to default too... no one appears to be looking at that either (its only to make a field wider)

[01:32:04]

wagnerrp:

theres really only two people who handle theme related stuff

[01:32:09]

wagnerrp:

and one of them wants nothing to do with mythcenter

[01:32:20]

k-man:

but it was for default, not mythcenter

[01:32:44]

wagnerrp:

shows how much i know about theming... :)

[01:33:05]

k-man:

where would the code be that checks the size of a channel icon?

[01:33:53]

k-man:

I found there is an issue of sorts – if a file is a PNG but with extension .jpg (i know, its stupid) I think the code fails to get the correct size of the image

[01:35:21]

sphery:

yeah, that's a problem with Qt's image loading

[01:35:40]

k-man:

oh, so it would be in Qt code rather than mythtv code?

[01:35:46]

sphery:

so it would have to be "fixed" in Qt (though they may well call it working as it should)

[01:35:50]

sphery:

yeah

[01:35:53]

k-man:

oh

[01:36:10]

[R]:

its a feature, not a bug

[01:36:11]

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[01:36:19]

sphery:

their image loaders were obviously designed by their windows programmers--who believe that file extension means something

[01:37:34]

k-man:

shepherd does channel icon downloading for you, but unfortunately, some of the icons it downloads are incorrectly extensioned like that

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[01:39:37]

sphery:

OK, so I'm starting to figure out Hawii Five-0... S1E2 is named Ohana, which means, "Family," in Hawaiian. I just can't figure out what S1E1's title means in Hawaiian. Pilot doesn't even seem to be a Hawaiian word...

[01:40:42]

sphery:

k-man: yeah, it's kind of annoying... I think iamlindoro had to write code that attempted to open the file different ways for the metadata stuff to work around Qt's insistence that the extension be appropriate for the file type

[01:42:56]

k-man:

any idea of an image host that I could use to host the pngs?

[01:43:03]

k-man:

something that will keep them indefinately

[01:43:06]

k-man:

for free

[01:45:35]

k-man:

does imageshack delete images eventually?

[01:46:35]

sphery:

I would guess so, but don't know for sure

[01:47:14]

sphery:

so, all the metadata downloader does is try to open the file using the extension supplied by the upstream source, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't accept the image/doesn't write it to disk

[01:47:47]

k-man:

interesting

[01:48:18]

sphery:

I guess shepherd could try using file on the image after downloading, and changing the extension, if not appropriate, already

[01:51:41]

k-man:

yeah

[01:52:00]

k-man:

I'm just uploading the images to imageshack

[01:52:15]

k-man:

I think the host the mages were stored on might have done the dodgey file renaming

[01:52:18]

Beirdo:

hmm, this sucks

[01:52:30]

k-man:

as I attemted to upload the files there as pngs, but it returned jpg links to me

[01:52:34]

Beirdo:

I can't test because I can't restart the backend... because it's recording

[01:53:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: testing is overrated... code with faith!

[01:53:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:53:53]

Beirdo:

it's teh mpeg2fix fun

[01:54:03]

Beirdo:

I don't think faith will help...

[01:54:16]

Beirdo:

unless it's voodoo and I go sacrifice a goat and a couple chickens

[01:54:42]

k-man:

bah, imageshack is no good as I don't think you can get a direct link to the image off it

[01:54:45]

sphery:

heh, for that one, you might need something bigger--like a dragon

[01:55:05]

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[01:55:09]

k-man:

oh, yes you can

[01:55:21]

Beirdo:

yeah, a dragon might be sufficient

[01:55:40]

Beirdo:

I have a 5 min period between 8pm and 8:05pm to restart the backend

[01:55:53]

Beirdo:

other than that, recording clear through to midnight, it seems

[01:56:40]

sphery:

8:05 recording on TBS? Or are other channels doing that, now, too?

[01:56:50]

Beirdo:

HBO

[01:57:10]

Beirdo:

and History has Top Gear starting at 11:01pm

[01:57:13]

sphery:

ah, yeah, they do things at whenever

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k-man:

just tried to post a patch to the shepherd trac, and stupid trac gave me an error

[02:47:52]

k-man:

see – that is why I like github, it makes submitting a patch trivial

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[03:01:25]

Beirdo:

ok, restarted...

[03:01:36]

Beirdo:

but I think I'll finish watching Mad Max first :)

[03:04:34]

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[03:10:58]

Beirdo:

there's an interesting historical note.

[03:11:18]

Beirdo:

first Australian film to use a wide-screen animorphic lens

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[03:25:39]

k-man:

oh right

[03:26:07]

k-man:

Johnny, Bubba, *fuu*

[03:26:16]

k-man:

I don't know how you spell a puff sound

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[03:38:37]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:38:55]

Beirdo:

OK, let's test this transcoding fun again, shall we?

[03:42:00]

Beirdo:

OK, found a good victim recording

[03:53:09]

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[03:55:56]

elmoc:

I am looking for some advice on a capture card for my Ubuntu 10.04 Myth system. I have a Hauppauge PVR-150 and PVR-350 but they are getting old and not everything is working on them anymore.

[03:56:15]

elmoc:

I am trying to capture off a DirecTV D11 box.

[03:56:37]

elmoc:

Using S-Video right now.

[04:00:32]

wagnerrp:

advice on a new capture card?

[04:01:29]

elmoc:

What would be a good replacement for the PVR-150?

[04:01:39]

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[04:01:59]

wagnerrp:

HVR-2250

[04:02:02]

elmoc:

I have read the wiki but it seems a bit out of date for what is available now.

[04:02:40]

wagnerrp:

what page did you read?

[04:02:58]

elmoc:

That one handles the S-Video or RCA inputs?

[04:03:57]

wagnerrp:

both, its actually the new version of the PVR-500

[04:04:43]

elmoc:

Sounds like a winner then. You know what type of interface it has? PCI?

[04:06:57]

wagnerrp:

well theres the issue, its PCIe

[04:07:16]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Analog_Hardware_Encoder_Cards

[04:07:16]

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[04:09:41]

elmoc:

I think I have a few of those slots on the motherboard.

[04:11:05]

k-man:

I wish apple would somehow do diff downloads of ne iphone updates

[04:11:21]

k-man:

rather than 600Mb+ downloads each time they update

[04:12:59]

elmoc:

Good. I have 3 of those slots. :) Will have to get one ordered here soon. Thanks.

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bumblebeebat:

Hey guys, i dug around and could not find any current references to this error. I am getting "MythSocket(ffffffffb1e06418:34): writeStringList: Error, No data written on writeBlock (915 errors)" in the backend log. Anyone ever get that error. I think it happened when my hd-pvr was trying to turn.

[04:21:51]

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[04:23:15]

tank-man:

is the error reproducible?

[04:23:57]

bumblebeebat:

First time I got it.

[04:24:05]

bumblebeebat:

Well first time I noticed

[04:28:28]

bumblebeebat:

I will update to the latest fixes and watch for it again

[04:29:19]

bumblebeebat:

On another note, did anyone watch the linux action show today. Bit of a burn on the UI.

[04:38:15]

tank-man:

what is this linux action show?

[04:38:42]

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[04:38:49]

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[04:44:13]

bumblebeebat:

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/

[04:46:01]

bumblebeebat:

they do a show on linux and this week was media centers on linux.

[04:46:53]

tank-man:

podcast show?

[04:47:25]

bumblebeebat:

yeah, a video show

[04:47:38]

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[04:47:53]

wagnerrp:

well, saying this week's show was on media centers is debatable

[04:48:00]

wagnerrp:

12 minutes in and still no media centers

[04:48:37]

tank-man:

intresting that they have a "help us mine bitcoin" link on that page that goes to a page that just uses my cpu lol

[04:48:38]

wagnerrp:

19 minutes in, and nothing

[04:48:47]

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[04:49:19]

bumblebeebat:

haha, yeah it was only a few minutes near the end

[04:49:35]

bumblebeebat:

like half a minute

[04:49:49]

wagnerrp:

the title of the show, but its only a couple minutes at the end???

[04:54:05]

bumblebeebat:

Media Centers PT2 | LAS | s17e10 is the title

[04:55:04]

wagnerrp:

34 minutes in, and they finally start talking about it

[04:55:45]

wagnerrp:

"i got a haxx0rd xbox"

[04:55:47]

wagnerrp:

what a tool

[05:03:28]

wagnerrp:

heh, theyre joking about how xbmc is designed to be used with pirated content

[05:03:35]

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[05:11:04]

Beirdo:

Gaaaah!

[05:11:15]

Beirdo:

this mpeg2fix stuff will kill me yet :)

[05:13:30]

wagnerrp:

'it freezes all the time, its already having issues', as they show a blank "watch recordings" screen

[05:13:39]

wagnerrp:

except its blank because they have no recordings

[05:13:57]

wagnerrp:

and even more so, they have no guide data because theyre running an improperly configured setup

[05:18:27]

Beirdo:

yeah, that's really what I needed... a filldb run in the middle of my testing :)

[05:19:23]

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[05:27:17]

Beirdo:

I think I'm getting closer, but this is totally frustrating

[05:29:09]

wagnerrp:

bumblebeebat: that was hardly worth the effort

[05:29:20]

wagnerrp:

they spent a couple minutes on XBMC

[05:29:31]

wagnerrp:

everything else got somewhere between 5 and 20 seconds

[05:30:05]

** iamlindoro sighs **

[05:30:05]

wagnerrp:

which the vast bulk of the time going to phones, internet tablets, game consoles, and hardware that sorta kinda runs linux

[05:30:34]

iamlindoro:

Why is it I'm the jerk when users manually muck about in the DB, refuse to read the directions, refuse to run a working theme, and refuse to schedule through the frontend?

[05:31:07]

Beirdo:

because you're the designated jerk for the week?

[05:31:16]

Beirdo:

my turn next week, I guess

[05:31:19]

[R]:

iamlindoro: havne't you heard the saying, the customer is always right ;)

[05:31:55]

iamlindoro:

Can't save people from themselves

[05:31:56]

Beirdo:

[R]: haven't you heard the saying: management retains the right of refusal of service?

[05:32:02]

[R]:

Beirdo: HAHA

[05:32:10]

Beirdo:

they ain't payin...

[05:32:27]

Beirdo:

that and... restrooms for paying customers only.

[05:32:35]

Beirdo:

you wanna take a dump... you pay :)

[05:32:38]

[R]:

lol

[05:32:50]

iamlindoro:

But really, the guy who says "I don't want to run Arclight, I don't want to schedule through the frontend, and I manually inserted a bunch of stuff into the artwork table, why doesn't artwork work right?" I mean, really??

[05:33:03]

iamlindoro:

This has been "Really?" with iamlindoro

[05:33:22]

iamlindoro:

oh, and PS, guy, ALL official themes and all of mine support the new stuff

[05:34:02]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:34:44]

Beirdo:

there really is no accounting for some people

[05:35:45]

iamlindoro:

The only thing that confuses me about that guy is that he says something is going through every few minutes and undoing his changes-- but that's literally impossible, mythmetadatalookup runs once per day and won't touch existing rows

[05:36:10]

iamlindoro:

and it's the only code outside of the metadata options screen that is capable of touching that table

[05:36:14]

iamlindoro:

so really, it smacks of BS

[05:36:53]

wagnerrp:

hes running some external utility that is borking hes stuff

[05:36:53]

iamlindoro:

And when the thread devolves into lies and namecalling, what can I possibly do? So, I've responded to the one cogent reply and I'm leaving it alone

[05:37:24]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: It would shock me to find that anyone has written a utility to touch that table this fast, but I guess it wouldn't shock me *that* much

[05:37:33]

iamlindoro:

maybe that's how he imported all his JAMU stuf

[05:37:54]

Beirdo:

"I'm sorry, I can not reproduce your problem from your description. There is nothing I can do to help fix this"

[05:39:10]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Beirdo: You've both used the new artwork functionality, right? Does it more or less work properly and without too much mucking about for you?

[05:39:39]

wagnerrp:

i havent used the frontend much in weeks

[05:39:46]

Beirdo:

yes, last I tried, it was pretty painless

[05:40:09]

iamlindoro:

The first guy has just horrendous guide data, refuses to follow the steps to work around bad guide data, adn has now probably horked his recordings and rules so badly that there's little to do besides setting inetrefs to "" and trying again

[05:40:13]

wagnerrp:

but from testing MMG on the command line, it got most things right with no configuration

[05:40:17]

iamlindoro:

the second guy seems to be hopeless

[05:40:19]

Beirdo:

the only issue I saw was one I think you've addressed since, which is sometimes saving the internet ID didn't take

[05:40:25]

wagnerrp:

and got nearly everything else right once i set the inetrefs

[05:40:56]

iamlindoro:

well that's reassuring

[05:40:58]

Beirdo:

but I think that was because I hand edited a recording rather than the schedule (incorrectly) at one point, and I was confused

[05:41:16]

iamlindoro:

I really did try to be very, very careful not to make anything dependent on Schedules Direct data

[05:41:16]

Beirdo:

since then, it has quite nicely been keeping everything in sync just fine

[05:41:37]

iamlindoro:

which is why I built the UI-- so that even those with no or next-to-no guide data could make ti work

[05:41:43]

Beirdo:

I think my only issues were old bugs, and user idiocy on my part.

[05:42:05]

bumblebeebat:

wagnerrp: Sorry, I should have said that it was not much. I just saw it and thought I would mention it.

[05:42:24]

iamlindoro:

For example, I have my rules for "Triathlon" and "Cycling" which don't have any equivalent at the metadata sources-- so even I have to give it an inetref ("cycling" and "tri," predictably) and set some artwork if I want it there

[05:42:55]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: I am sure I have fixed some bugs, and I am sure some remain, but I don't thing slaughtering people's databases are among them, I think the users are doing that themselves

[05:43:52]

Beirdo:

yeah, for sure

[05:43:54]

wagnerrp:

besides with, theyre running trunk

[05:44:02]

wagnerrp:

if that happens, they were warned

[05:44:40]

iamlindoro:

I think the big issue is that they want their JAMU "just do something, anything, and don't make me do any work" back

[05:44:41]

Beirdo:

there's nothing wrong with running master, and actually, for those who are able and willing to help debug... I wish more people would

[05:44:45]

Beirdo:

but...

[05:44:59]

iamlindoro:

and they don't see the advantage of this approach, where some work is required of legacy users

[05:45:10]

iamlindoro:

but little to no initial work is required of new users/new rules

[05:45:11]

Beirdo:

many many people are expecting the current checked-in code to be perfect, where it ain't.

[05:46:50]

iamlindoro:

The think about the new metadata stuff is that it operates right up to the point where it could possibly make the wrong choice, and is identical to JAMU up to that point (aside from being smarter about matching things to the sources)... but where JAMU would just give up and select something from the top of the list, MML prefers to say, "Nope, I can't make the right decision, so the user ought to"

[05:46:56]

iamlindoro:

er the thing

[05:47:13]

Beirdo:

I call that a feature

[05:47:28]

iamlindoro:

I agree

[05:47:29]

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[05:47:41]

iamlindoro:

I made a conscious decision to make no choice instead of a bad one

[05:47:57]

Beirdo:

JAMU was a great stop-gap, but it did pick incorrectly at times

[05:48:01]

iamlindoro:

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day" is not good enough for metadata lookup

[05:48:07]

Beirdo:

and leaving the choice to the user works for me

[05:48:23]

iamlindoro:

Especially when there's a nice UI where you can go and look at a poster, description, etc. of your choices, and pick the right one

[05:48:26]

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[05:48:30]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:49:02]

iamlindoro:

How many rules does the average user have? *Maybe* 50? That might take an existing user a max of an hour to get everything up to date, after which all those rules will make all the resulting recordings work perfectly

[05:49:17]

iamlindoro:

I daresay most user have far fewer rules

[05:49:35]

Beirdo:

only freaks like sphery and I tend to be the exception :)

[05:49:45]

Beirdo:

and even then, it didn't take long here

[05:50:04]

iamlindoro:

In the case of those people, assuming good guide data, the automated steps for guessing that data should update most of them in under a minut

[05:50:11]

Beirdo:

163 rules here

[05:50:34]

iamlindoro:

ie, a schedules direct user should be able to run --refresh-all-rules and get most of those rules matched automatically, leaving a scant few to pick matches for

[05:50:41]

Beirdo:

took maybe an hour or two to find and fix the missing ones

[05:50:47]

Beirdo:

yeah

[05:51:02]

Beirdo:

of course, that was an hour or two of multitasking too

[05:51:04]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:52:40]

iamlindoro:

In the case of the swedish guy, he's got a couple dozen recording, all called "tintin" with no subtitle, no category that suggests they're TV, no nothing

[05:52:50]

iamlindoro:

all the metadata classes can do is presume that those are movies

[05:52:59]

iamlindoro:

so it looks them up at TMDB-- and finds two matches

[05:53:23]

iamlindoro:

and in spite of the countless times I've told the guy to set the info properly on the rule and let it copy across to the recordings, he hasn't done it

[05:53:44]

iamlindoro:

so the metadata class just gives up rather than do the wrong thing

[05:54:02]

Beirdo:

ID.10.t error

[05:54:27]

iamlindoro:

add to that the wrinkle of him running his frontend in sweden, against swedish guide data, in english, and the TVDB API can't return anything

[05:54:54]

Beirdo:

and recording what was originally a French show :)

[05:55:07]

iamlindoro:

And even then if he desperately wants to run the FE in english, he can-- all he has to do is EDIT THE RULE and set the inetref (and a season/episode if he wants to force the use of the TV grabber)

[05:55:11]

Beirdo:

I wonder if we get Tintin here

[05:55:16]

iamlindoro:

Belgian IIRC

[05:55:26]

iamlindoro:

well, the comics were Belgian anyway

[05:55:30]

iamlindoro:

show might indeed be french

[05:55:31]

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[05:55:44]

Beirdo:

dang, nope.

[05:55:58]

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[05:56:04]

Beirdo:

From Belgium, written originally in French, correct :)

[05:56:16]

Beirdo:

I meant language rather than nationality :)

[05:56:29]

Beirdo:

I could use some Asterix too

[06:01:02]

iamlindoro:

Ugh, and the guy's guide data puts "Star Trek" in the title and "Voyager" as the subtitle

[06:01:14]

iamlindoro:

and probably crams the episode name into the description, if anywhere

[06:01:25]

Beirdo:

eww

[06:01:38]

Beirdo:

likely saw the : between and used it as a delimiter

[06:02:12]

iamlindoro:

The frustrating part is that it *still* can be made to work-- all he has to do is *follow the instructions* with the copious screenshots

[06:02:29]

iamlindoro:

just zero ALL the inetrefs out in the record and recorded table, start from scratch

[06:02:35]

iamlindoro:

go edit the rule, press metadata options

[06:02:47]

iamlindoro:

wait for the lookup to complete, choose your star trek from the list of star treks

[06:02:51]

iamlindoro:

press save

[06:02:52]

iamlindoro:

done!

[06:03:17]

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[06:03:28]

iamlindoro:

I have told this guy the same thing like five times, and he accuses me of calling him an idiot-- which I haven't done, but you really have to start to wonder after a half dozen times

[06:03:49]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:04:00]

Beirdo:

"If the shoe fits...."

[06:04:11]

iamlindoro:

I realize why his "Scrubs" doesn't work, too

[06:04:17]

iamlindoro:

because it's the same situation as his tintin

[06:04:26]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:04:29]

iamlindoro:

no subtitle, no category_type of series/tvshow/tv_series

[06:04:34]

Beirdo:

fairly common with Scrubs on some station

[06:04:38]

iamlindoro:

so it looks up at TMDB, gets nothing, and returns

[06:04:45]

Beirdo:

yup

[06:05:01]

iamlindoro:

yeah, but with good guide data, you'd at least have a working category_type, which would give it enough of a hint to choose the right grabber

[06:05:16]

iamlindoro:

it just needs any one thing to tip it off

[06:06:42]

iamlindoro:

it all circles back to the same thing, though-- if ANYTHING doesn't work, you can always MAKE it work by setting the season/episode to ANYTHING to force the TV grabber, and if you want to be really, really certain, setting the inetref

[06:07:00]

iamlindoro:

in his case, settings the scrubs rule to 1x01 and pressing "perform lookup" would be enough

[06:07:18]

iamlindoro:

And this is *all* in screenshots and text on the wiki page... which he swears up and down that he's read

[06:07:26]

iamlindoro:

ok, enough venting, sorry

[06:07:31]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:08:19]

Beirdo:

well, at least mpeg2fix craps out FAST

[06:08:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:09:26]

Beirdo:

2011-07–31 23:08:00.383239 I [4521/4521] CoreContext mpeg2fix.cpp:2151 (Start) – PTS discrepancy: 61245 != 16200 on I-Type (0)

[06:09:29]

Beirdo:

2011-07–31 23:08:00.383249 I [4521/4521] CoreContext mpeg2fix.cpp:2151 (Start) – PTS discrepancy: 46917 != 61245 on I-Type (0)

[06:09:34]

Beirdo:

what the heck did I break now?!

[06:09:42]

** wagnerrp wonders if hes going to have to kick Beirdo for flooding the channel **

[06:09:50]

Beirdo:

2 lines :)

[06:10:02]

wagnerrp:

well it was going slow like there would be more

[06:10:04]

wagnerrp:

lots lots more

[06:10:11]

Beirdo:

nooo

[06:10:17]

Beirdo:

not intentionally

[06:10:30]

wagnerrp:

who's to say you didnt accidentally middle click or something

[06:10:36]

wagnerrp:

whoops!

[06:10:36]

Beirdo:

there is that

[06:10:50]

Beirdo:

the nice thing is, irssi stops you

[06:11:12]

Beirdo:

if it's 5+ lines, it says "are you SURE you want to do that? Press Ctrl-K to paste"

[06:11:16]

Beirdo:

or something like that

[06:11:32]

Beirdo:

wish they'd default to 3 lines :)

[06:12:45]

wagnerrp:

1.5TB drive for $50.50

[06:12:52]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:13:07]

Beirdo:

I bought 4 * 3TB at $106 each

[06:13:27]

Beirdo:

pretty much the same price point

[06:15:57]

Beirdo:

oh, that's better. dvbsnoop isn't too smart at times.

[06:16:04]

Beirdo:

I forgot the -s pes

[06:17:15]

** wagnerrp decides to get versed in metadata lookup so he can assist in further threads **

[06:17:44]

** Beirdo buys iamlindoro and wagnerrp copies of "Herding Cats for Dummies" :) **

[06:18:12]

Beirdo:

I tell ya, users can be impossible to guide sometimes

[06:19:20]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: IMO it's pretty simple. There are only three options: 1) It works automatically (yay!), 2) it works but too many possibles are found (user selects correct match from UI, at which point it begins to work), 3) it doesn't work at all due to bad guide data or nothing at the metadata source (user specifies inetref, and any valid season/episode value in the rule, at which point it works).

[06:20:11]

iamlindoro:

There is the distant fourth possible, the guide data is incredibly bad, AND the wrong metadata source is picked, AND that source has a record for something matching that name. This is the only instance in which the inetref can get completely hosed

[06:20:27]

iamlindoro:

in which case there is STILL the ui to remove that inetref and fix it

[06:20:28]

Beirdo:

and 4) it doesn't work because the user's a <BLEEP>tard

[06:20:39]

iamlindoro:

well, yeah, 5) user manually breaks it

[06:20:53]

wagnerrp:

that is... if i can ever get my dev frontend to boot

[06:21:33]

wagnerrp:

network is flaking out

[06:21:56]

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[06:26:04]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: May be helpful, though I'm sure you've gleaned all this by now: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Enhancing_Recordin . . . ubleshooting

[06:27:09]

wagnerrp:

i know the page exists, but i havent looked through it

[06:27:16]

wagnerrp:

no, i think the thing that would make the most difference

[06:27:27]

wagnerrp:

is that im entering it with an open mind, willing to take the time to figure things out

[06:27:28]

iamlindoro:

I meant the troubleshooting section I just added

[06:27:35]

iamlindoro:

just in case ;)

[06:27:39]

wagnerrp:

rather than deciding to bitch to the mailing list the moment things dont work

[06:27:42]

iamlindoro:

heh

[06:27:49]

iamlindoro:

Well, yeah, that's at least appreciated

[06:27:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, and when explained, ya listen :)

[06:32:10]

wagnerrp:

i should just shove an intel card in this thing and be done with it

[06:34:30]

iamlindoro:

anyway, to bed with me, thanks for listening

[06:34:39]

Beirdo:

night :)

[06:34:47]

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[06:34:50]

Beirdo:

hope tomorrow is less boneheaded on the user-end

[06:35:34]

wagnerrp:

my sister worked with someone who had a couple cats and a border collie

[06:35:50]

wagnerrp:

apparently it did a pretty great job of herding cats all day while he was at work

[06:35:55]

Beirdo:

hehe. Yeah, they can herd cats pretty well

[06:36:01]

wagnerrp:

of course it drove the cats completely nuts and he had to get rid of them

[06:36:06]

Beirdo:

our Sheltie did a decent job too

[06:36:24]

Beirdo:

one of our cats wouldn't play along though

[06:36:37]

Beirdo:

he'd just lie down and let the dog go tearing past

[06:36:59]

Beirdo:

took the fun out of it, the dog learned to herd the other cat instead, who actually seemed to enjoy it

[06:37:01]

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[06:37:07]

wagnerrp:

you ever bought counterfeit computer hardware?

[06:37:16]

Beirdo:

yes

[06:37:26]

Beirdo:

back in the Apple ][ clone days

[06:37:36]

wagnerrp:

i mean unintentionally

[06:37:42]

Beirdo:

oh. :)

[06:37:45]

Beirdo:

not that I know of

[06:37:57]

wagnerrp:

the card im about to install is a replacement

[06:38:15]

wagnerrp:

around 6 years ago, i bought a pair of intel gigabit cards

[06:38:27]

wagnerrp:

the first one failed in about six months

[06:38:30]

wagnerrp:

the second a month later

[06:38:53]

wagnerrp:

sent them in for replacement, only to have the confiscated by intel as part of an ongoing investigation

[06:39:05]

Beirdo:

gah

[06:39:15]

wagnerrp:

newegg ended up replacing them

[06:39:29]

Beirdo:

I should hope so!

[06:41:26]

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[06:44:53]

wagnerrp:

happily, the authentic intel hardware hasnt given me a problem since

[06:44:53]

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[06:45:10]

wagnerrp:

... besides being discrete network cards capable of saturating the bus theyr on

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[06:51:07]

justinh:

I've found my gigE onboard stuff to be okay so far. doing copies across the network I seem to hit the limit of the HDDs – which is about as good as I could expect

[06:53:11]

justinh:

wagnerrp: back in the day when I used to buy stuff from 'computer fairs' I landed myself with fake RAM, fake motherboards.. I stopped going to them when I moved here since we have plenty of reasonably priced dealers. Nowadays the fairs have loads of stalls selling warez & dodgy cable & satellite boxes.. and sweets (candy) .. and gardening equipment (!)

[06:53:36]

justinh:

it's generally not even worth paying the admission fee to those things anymore

[06:54:32]

justinh:

and try buying a well known brand of computer component.. heh. The cases – find one at a fair without a window, EL-wire & blue LEDs – I'll give you my house

[07:01:03]

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[07:16:46]

k-man:

wagnerrp, and they didn't replace them or anything after confiscating them?

[07:16:59]

wagnerrp:

yes, newegg replaced them

[07:17:02]

k-man:

oh ok

[07:17:15]

k-man:

so they were fake/had fake components on them?

[07:17:30]

wagnerrp:

i never got any details

[07:18:01]

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[07:18:07]

k-man:

interesting

[07:19:17]

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[07:21:29]

Beirdo:

argh.

[07:21:50]

Beirdo:

I feel like I'm one breakthrough away from making this crap work

[07:22:01]

Beirdo:

but its been that way all night

[07:24:51]

wagnerrp:

is there any command that i can use to run another command

[07:25:00]

wagnerrp:

and automatically terminate if it takes too long to run

[07:25:16]

Beirdo:

not that I know of

[07:26:44]

wagnerrp:

my dev backend has a nasty issue where the network takes ~20 seconds to come online after the module is loaded

[07:27:08]

wagnerrp:

so i wrote a loop into my initrd that repeatedly attempts to connect every five seconds

[07:27:23]

wagnerrp:

however now iscsistart does not close until manually terminated or successful

[07:27:35]

wagnerrp:

meaning the loop no longer functions

[07:27:50]

Beirdo:

ick

[07:29:07]

** Beirdo sputters **

[07:29:20]

Beirdo:

I think I just found the STUPID bug

[07:30:08]

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[07:31:14]

Beirdo:

oh, please be it

[07:31:46]

Beirdo:

may not be the only one, but it sure is one of em

[07:31:57]

wagnerrp:

what are you working on?

[07:32:04]

Beirdo:

mpeg2fix

[07:32:08]

wagnerrp:

ah

[07:32:14]

Beirdo:

trying to de-qt3support it

[07:32:23]

Beirdo:

what a frickin mess

[07:33:59]

Beirdo:

that was a translation bug

[07:34:17]

Beirdo:

and I think it uncovered another minor translation bug

[07:34:49]

Beirdo:

it's saving the I frame too early

[07:35:08]

Beirdo:

which is an off-by-one somewhere in an index check

[07:36:02]

Beirdo:

time to remove some of the extra debugging I put in to find this retarded bug (incremented the wrong index)

[07:36:26]

Beirdo:

but the output IS playable :)

[07:36:28]

Beirdo:

yay

[07:44:17]

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[07:45:41]

justinh:

woowooo

[07:47:04]

Beirdo:

next attempt

[07:52:03]

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[08:02:17]

Beirdo:

hmm, this is fun

[08:02:31]

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[08:02:44]

Beirdo:

it's still not working on the second deletd section

[08:03:09]

Beirdo:

err, after the first deleted section

[08:09:06]

Beirdo:

OK, I think I just fixed the off-by-one

[08:23:38]

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[08:44:33]

Beirdo:

Oh, so that's what happens if you don't use QThreads.

[08:46:00]

Beirdo:

or maybe the thread startup's different, I dunno

[08:46:02]

Beirdo:

I don't care

[08:46:08]

Beirdo:

I'll care later

[08:48:27]

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[08:49:14]

justinh:

arghhh a textedit can't have different font states

[08:58:44]

justinh:

ha. and the cursor placement is weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeird

[09:00:03]

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[09:03:44]

jhp:

Hi everyone. I'm using tv_grab_nl.py and until 2 days ago everything was fine. But since 2 days I get the following error in my output: 2011-08–01 07:37:20.660 Error in 89914:27: letter is expected

[09:04:13]

[R]:

sounds like there is probably a problme with your script

[09:04:14]

jhp:

Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? Probably an error in the xml file that is being generated?

[09:04:19]

[R]:

not a problem with myth

[09:04:47]

jhp:

No, indeed not a problem with mythtv.

[09:05:02]

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[09:05:07]

jhp:

But I was hoping that other people here are running into the same problem.

[09:06:07]

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[09:06:35]

justinh:

serves em right for using python :)

[09:06:54]

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[09:07:31]

stuartm:

jhp: run the script manually and redirect the output to a file, then you can see what appears on that line and why it might be a problem

[09:09:48]

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[09:12:05]

justinh:

hahaha. I hate my first mythui screen. the custom rule creator thing

[09:12:25]

Beirdo:

argh

[09:12:30]

Beirdo:

argh argh argh!

[09:12:31]

Beirdo:

heheheh

[09:12:40]

Beirdo:

the bug I've been chasing...

[09:13:01]

Beirdo:

fricking mpeg2fix doesn't obey EAGAIN from av_read_frame

[09:13:33]

justinh:

think it turns out that multiline text editing still doesn't work, cos if I keep adding queries the stuff in the edit box goes blank

[09:14:50]

Beirdo:

managed to finda piles of little bugs in my conversion to get to that point though

[09:15:00]

Beirdo:

that's also why it's not working right in master

[09:15:48]

Beirdo:

let's try this

[09:16:21]

Beirdo:

OMG

[09:16:32]

Beirdo:

FINALLY

[09:16:35]

Beirdo:

hehe

[09:16:35]

stuartm:

justinh: no, we know it still doesn't work

[09:16:51]

Beirdo:

OK, I'll fix that in master while I perfect the translation to non-QT3

[09:17:06]

Beirdo:

although I think I'm almost ready for a code review

[09:18:27]

justinh:

stuartm: ah. won't waste any more time on that then :)

[09:19:14]

justinh:

wonder if qt has any suitable tricks for that now

[09:19:33]

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[09:20:44]

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[09:23:31]

Beirdo:

stupid code

[09:23:50]

Beirdo:

assuming that < 0 return is ALWAYS an error that you must quit on.

[09:24:08]

Beirdo:

-EAGAIN.... is < 0... and says "call me again, please"

[09:24:16]

Beirdo:

not "end of file, panic!"

[09:25:16]

Beirdo:

I remember fixing that in the avformatdecoder months ago (when ffmpeg started doing that)

[09:25:30]

Beirdo:

but, mpeg2fix got overlooked, it seems

[09:26:43]

Beirdo:

sonva... it worketh!

[09:27:23]

Beirdo:

stuartm: I'll probably have a *large* patchset up for code review in the next 24h if you are interested in doing a read-over

[09:27:36]

Beirdo:

de-qt3-ing of mpeg2fix

[09:28:17]

Beirdo:

I want to do another run through to see if there aren't areas that could use another cleanup now that it is seemingly working

[09:29:31]

Beirdo:

that was ... fun... and instructional

[09:33:39]

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[09:39:47]

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[09:42:40]

justinh:

stuartm: should -v gui say which xml is being loaded no matter what? I can only see references to my own xml files. I think it

[09:42:55]

justinh:

arghh it's loading defaults but I'm not sure & the verbose isn't saying

[09:43:52]

stuartm:

Beirdo: ok :)

[09:44:13]

stuartm:

justinh: uhh, I'd have to check the source

[09:44:14]

Beirdo:

it's operational, but I'm sure there are some little buglets yet.

[09:44:44]

stuartm:

does the EAGAIN fix need backporting to 0.24?

[09:44:48]

Beirdo:

and it took me all night to get it to here, so I think I'll hit the sack.

[09:45:04]

Beirdo:

yes, and the other bug I found with the AVMetadata

[09:45:10]

Beirdo:

which is also in master

[09:45:13]

justinh:

stuartm: maybe you can help another way then – I'm trying to fix some popups but can't seem to work out which buttonlist is being used

[09:45:37]

stuartm:

justinh: ok

[09:46:25]

justinh:

there's a popup which is launched from a 'new titles' search – I *think* it's pulling in basebuttonlist but where from I dunno. I've tried grepping for it & can't find it

[09:46:33]

Beirdo:

stuartm: dd4e47bd

[09:46:44]

Beirdo:

errr, sorry about the Ctrl-I :)

[09:46:57]

stuartm:

https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/dd4e47bd

[09:46:58]

Beirdo:

that's the other one that could use a backport if I didn't already

[09:47:02]

Beirdo:

yup

[09:47:47]

Beirdo:

feel free to do so if you want... otherwise I'll try to get to it later in the day when I get to work (or whatever)

[09:48:24]

Beirdo:

the one fixes a crash, the other fixes a premature exit

[09:48:29]

stuartm:

Beirdo: ok, I might backport them then, hopefully it might fix one or two outstanding mythtranscode bugs

[09:48:44]

Beirdo:

sounds good :)

[09:49:06]

Beirdo:

they both should backport fairly cleanly, I'd expect

[09:49:49]

stuartm:

hell, maybe the EAGAIN could even be the solution for THE mythtranscode bug (though that would just be too easy)

[09:49:55]

Beirdo:

I think along with a second pass for possible cleanup, I may actually put some more comments into mpeg2fix.cpp

[09:50:00]

Beirdo:

hehe

[09:50:15]

Beirdo:

for the mpeg2 one, I'd bet it just might

[09:50:23]

Beirdo:

for nuv->nuv... not so sure

[09:50:32]

justinh:

ah I've not yet got any popups defined in schedule-ui

[09:50:39]

Beirdo:

although we may have the same issue elsewhere still

[09:51:19]

Beirdo:

like in mytharchive for the thumbfinder...

[09:51:31]

Beirdo:

and in mythmusic...

[09:51:38]

Beirdo:

other places using av_read_frame

[09:52:04]

Beirdo:

we should probably check them all for simple duh bugs now that we've caught it at least twice

[09:52:26]

Beirdo:

mytharchivehelper... in several places

[09:53:27]

Beirdo:

although that is a task for another session. :)

[09:53:29]

Beirdo:

bedtime

[09:53:33]

Beirdo:

night, all

[09:54:59]

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[10:01:19]

justinh:

aha! mythsearchdialog

[10:04:11]

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[10:05:51]

justinh:

I need to kill basebuttonlist. when I first started this theme I edited that list & fair messed it up. anything which inherits it is nasty

[10:05:53]

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[10:22:21]

justinh:

hmm is there a bug in some of the popup titling? I've got recgroupchanger given a title of "Change Recording Group" but the text which appears is "change filter"

[10:22:54]

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[10:23:22]

justinh:

ah no

[10:23:42]

justinh:

recgroupchanger isn't coming up where I thought it would. So where *is* it coming up then?

[10:25:13]

justinh:

heh looks like nowhere. LOL

[10:26:14]

justinh:

maybe it was deprecated

[10:28:59]

** justinh greps the source **

[10:29:08]

justinh:

nope not there either

[10:29:12]

justinh:

*delete* !

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[11:14:20]

stuartm:

justinh: honestly I'd not try to use basebuttonlist for everything, it works for some design but definitely not others

[11:15:54]

stuartm:

and remember that 'basebuttonlist' is just an arbitrary name, it's not special in any way, you could have multiple base definitions of a list called 'mybuttonlist', 'myotherbuttonlist', 'chupacabra'

[11:16:27]

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[11:16:44]

stuartm:

justinh: recgroupchanger? Err, if I had to guess, PBB > Menu > Storage Options > Change Recording Group

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[12:20:40]

justinh:

stuartm: that was what I'd guessed it would be too, but fgrep -R "recgroupchanger" * on the source dir didn't come out with anything

[12:22:00]

justinh:

PBB > Menu > Storage Options > Change Recording Group brings up a popup which is merely titled "change filter" not "Change Recording Group" which is in the xml for recgroupchanger

[12:22:36]

justinh:

I couldn't get it to appear, even when I did the obvious thing of making it stand out by replacing the text with a swear ;)

[12:23:01]

justinh:

I know recgroupchanger is in the defaults & even a number of themes including yours

[12:23:37]

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[12:28:08]

stuartm:

justinh: hmm, somethings pretty broken there then, "Change group Filter" is in the group menu (MENU x2) not under "Storage Options" in the recording menu

[12:28:35]

justinh:

oh, the right stuff appears in the buttonlist

[12:29:20]

justinh:

but grepping the source for other window titles finds them ok

[12:31:53]

stuartm:

hmm, looks like that one is groupselector

[12:32:04]

justinh:

yup

[12:32:05]

stuartm:

odd, maybe I factored it out

[12:32:13]

stuartm:

https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/0b2af32a

[12:32:46]

stuartm:

nope, it's always been called that

[12:33:01]

stuartm:

lets look at how I've themed it in Terra, might give me a clue

[12:33:59]

stuartm:

hmm, it's not in any core themes?

[12:34:14]

justinh:

I just checked again. I dunno where I got the idea it was

[12:34:24]

justinh:

wonder where I got it from then LOL

[12:34:57]

justinh:

a lot of this stuff is pretty old now. I started this a couple of years ago

[12:35:12]

stuartm:

just grepped my entire 'myth' directory, it's not in any xml there

[12:35:51]

justinh:

doh that's how

[12:35:59]

justinh:

my original grep was for "change recording group"

[12:36:27]

justinh:

and it only pulls out "change recording group password". heh

[12:36:30]

justinh:

sorry for the noise

[12:36:59]

justinh:

still puzzled as to how I got that in the 1st place though

[12:37:08]

justinh:

moving on.. back to the xml

[12:37:51]

justinh:

once I've done away with my own definition of basebuttonlist at least screens I haven't yet themed won't look like arse so much

[12:45:51]

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[12:59:25]

ThisNewGuy:

iamlindoro: would you consider adding an API to look up all episodes for a show or a season – my end goal would be to compare what I have recorded/watched vs. what exists (perhaps in mythweb)

[13:01:28]

justinh:

arghh what can bring up MythDialogBox ?

[13:01:42]

justinh:

once I find out I'll put it in the wiki as an example

[13:04:55]

stuartm:

justinh: it's the context menu, used just about everywhere (MENU)

[13:05:16]

stuartm:

or did paul-h change that ...

[13:05:38]

justinh:

hmm I'm not seeing anything like fullscreen

[13:05:49]

stuartm:

it _used_ to be the context menu, until someone felt that we needed two menus, one popup and one fullscreen (don't agree)

[13:06:16]

stuartm:

justinh: mytharchive, mythzoneminder, one of those probably

[13:06:30]

justinh:

gah. I'm not installing either of those if I can help it

[13:06:36]

stuartm:

guessing that it's the only place they are used

[13:07:31]

stuartm:

I didn't like the idea, it seems to be that if you need that much space then it's no longer a generic menu, it's a new screen

[13:07:56]

stuartm:

but sometimes you have to pick your battles

[13:08:40]

justinh:

oof

[13:08:40]

justinh:

Err http://ppa.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/0.24/ubuntu/ lucid/main mythzoneminder 2:0.24.1+fixes.20110727.760c8db-0ubuntu0mythbuntu1 404 Not Found

[13:09:08]

justinh:

ow. can't grab mytharchive either

[13:10:02]

justinh:

wth? it went off grabbing 'new' libmyth & so on

[13:10:15]

justinh:

oh bugger.

[13:10:21]

justinh:

damn you autobuilds!

[13:11:41]

justinh:

right that's it. I've had enough of this *buntu stupidity now

[13:12:35]

justinh:

I guess I could test the popup by renaming it to something I know does the same thing – one which is actually *used*

[13:18:43]

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[13:23:22]

justinh:

looks like I need to build from source anyway. -v gui isn't producing anything like enough info as you used to get

[13:23:39]

justinh:

at least in terms of xml loading messages

[13:24:05]

justinh:

is there any other way to find out what mythfrontend has its hooks in?

[13:29:38]

justinh:

haha! gotcha. renamed mythdialogbox to mythpopupbox & vice-versa

[13:32:11]

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[13:41:39]

stuartm:

-v gui,extra

[13:42:16]

stuartm:

although I don't really remember changing the verbose level for xml loading

[13:45:30]

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[13:45:31]

sphery:

iamlindoro / Beirdo : I actually just helped a user with a completely corrupt database backup who had 904 recording rules... Didn't look through them, but wow.

[13:45:53]

sphery:

though I'd say even in his case, he should expect miracles of automatic metadata population

[13:47:16]

sphery:

er, shouldn't

[13:48:09]

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[13:55:29]

iamlindoro:

sphery: I don't think *anyone* should expect miracles-- I'm realistic about the fact that we're going from a 100% automatic but with numerous disadvantages systems to a more accurate system which is not 100% automatic-- it will produce significant whining/pining for the old days/talk about how the old way was better and the new way is crap

[13:55:30]

sphery:

oops, seems Elkin already mentioned the Reload Theme jump point

[13:56:53]

iamlindoro:

On the other hand, I more or less dictated how the old way did its name matching/guessing, so I'm aware of the places where the new way is much, much better

[13:57:14]

iamlindoro:

no matter what a couple of complainers believe, based on their broken guide data :)

[13:58:47]

sphery:

and in truth, only the people who already have rules and who value laze (? being lazy ;) over accuracy will whine

[13:59:12]

sphery:

new users will create the rules and set metadata on them one by one, so it won't be a "laborious" process for them.

[13:59:37]

sphery:

I think the approach you've taken is right

[14:00:07]

iamlindoro:

I am pretty sure I mentioned that this is the way it would ultimately work in the very first commit to add artwork to the PBB

[14:01:10]

iamlindoro:

There are probably some other ways I haven't yet thought of to universally determine the nature of content, and that will help the lazy too, but I'm hardly going to rush to do so under a hail of namecalling/rudeness

[14:03:06]

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[14:03:53]

sphery:

what, that doesn't motivate you, either? I thought it was just me.

[14:08:20]

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[14:24:38]

** quicksilver probably has 900 or more recording rules **

[14:24:50]

quicksilver:

the UI doesn't really 'encourage' you to remove them

[14:25:02]

quicksilver:

so I'm sure I have loasd of rules relating to programs which have long since finished

[14:25:50]

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[14:29:09]

sphery:

quicksilver: yeah, each year at the end of the season, I tend to go through and delete all the rules for cancelled series. More than anything, I do this because the scheduler query is already too big/slow, so getting rid of the garbage makes sense. Unfortunately, it is maintenance, so it takes up some of the user's time.

[14:31:55]

sphery:

quicksilver: that said, it's rather quick to do if you go to the MythWeb or mythfrontend Recording Rules screens and sort by "Last Recorded" (click column in MythWeb or hit 7 in mythfrontend), then go through the ones that haven't "hit" for years

[14:32:12]

sphery:

stuartm: your favorite UI design in mythfrontend ^^^

[14:32:15]

quicksilver:

sphery: but there is no real incentive to do so if the user doesn't observe anything as being wrong ;)

[14:32:21]

sphery:

true

[14:32:26]

quicksilver:

sphery: and, in fact, I don't observe anything as being wrong.

[14:32:38]

quicksilver:

although I have of course read about the big slow scheduler query.

[14:32:52]

sphery:

yeah, and with sufficiently powerful hardware, it's not a big deal

[14:33:05]

sphery:

but it does make it a lot easier to find things if you don't have old garbage in the way

[14:34:40]

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[14:36:18]

stuartm:

sphery: yeah, that should be in the menu instead, in fact it might already be ...

[14:36:36]

stuartm:

yeah, that at least is available through the 'Sort by' option in the context menu

[14:37:17]

stuartm:

although I've just noticed that we're not showing the year on that 'last recorded' date, which makes it much less useful

[14:38:02]

sphery:

yeah, that's all due to the fact that we use the user-specified date format

[14:38:23]

sphery:

I added the last recorded stuff and made that comment...

[14:38:39]

stuartm:

yup, we at least can append the year with the new date format stuff

[14:38:55]

sphery:

yeah, would be good to update it

[14:39:23]

stuartm:

it will check whether the year is used in the long date format and if not add it to the end

[14:41:01]

sphery:

So, we should just remove the "press # to sort" stuff from those screens

[14:41:06]

sphery:

since it's in the menu

[14:41:23]

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[14:41:24]

sphery:

and the number key is /so/ far from intuitive that themes actually have "help labels" at the bottom of the screen

[14:42:16]

sphery:

think we should modify m_lastRecordedDateText to use m_formatLongDate

[14:42:29]

sphery:

will totally mess up spacing for themes...

[14:44:58]

sphery:

oh, and think bjm has been gone long enough that we can get rid of the Recording Priorities screen and just have the Recording Rules screen (which is the same code, so could be themed to show all the priority garbage that only bjm understands :)

[14:45:07]

sphery:

stuartm: ^^^

[14:46:16]

stuartm:

sphery: heh, I had already made that changed locally and just pushed it

[14:46:32]

stuartm:

I came to the same conclusion about using the long date instead of the short date

[14:47:03]

sphery:

heh, cool

[14:47:04]

stuartm:

ah, no, opps, I missed the out-of-list textareas

[14:47:15]

sphery:

themes can be updated, if required

[14:47:27]

sphery:

ahh, yeah, guess there are 2 places

[14:48:31]

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[14:49:22]

sphery:

would be nice if we could get rid of one of the 2 copies of that screen...

[14:49:37]

sphery:

(nice for themers and users)

[14:50:16]

stuartm:

aye, I'm not too bothered about breaking themes in this case since the context pretty much demands that you show the full date, if there were demand I guess we can add textareas named 'lastrecordedshortdate' etc

[14:50:34]

stuartm:

but their at least needs to be the option of showing the full date

[14:51:12]

stuartm:

and themers should be gently pushed to using the longer form for the sake of the user

[14:51:38]

sphery:

yeah, I think last recorded without year is worse than having no last recorded at all

[14:51:48]

sphery:

so I think it's better this way and themes will adapt

[14:52:38]

stuartm:

when was the last_recorded stuff added?

[14:53:00]

sphery:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5759

[14:53:17]

sphery:

https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/dc2b8ed5

[14:53:31]

sphery:

it was added as part of the Recording Rules screen

[14:53:31]

justinh:

no no no no, everything in a context menu should have a bindable key action attached to it ;-)

[14:53:37]

stuartm:

sphery: if you want to remove the priorities screen then that's got my backing, I think it's overly complicated and a pain to theme

[14:53:50]

sphery:

justinh: bindable is ok--but hard-coded number keys aren't :)

[14:53:53]

justinh:

FWIW, here's my vote too

[14:54:16]

sphery:

stuartm: will do... I love to poke sleeping dragons, anyway. :)

[14:54:23]

justinh:

something needs to be done about the custom rules screen as well – I'm thinking about it

[14:54:26]

stuartm:

sphery: the db value was added around the same time?

[14:54:36]

sphery:

stuartm: ah, no, that was in there long before

[14:54:43]

sphery:

bjm actually added it, iirc

[14:54:58]

justinh:

WTH is up with this widget then?

[14:55:04]

justinh:

[14:55:12]

stuartm:

sphery: right, that's what I thought, I'm just finding that rules I know have recorded this year are missing last_recorded dates

[14:55:20]

justinh:

<area>100,60,1080,180</area> ... only the text is being horribly trunc...

[14:55:39]

sphery:

weird...

[14:56:10]

stuartm:

justinh: are you sure that it's the text in messagearea which is getting truncated?

[14:57:05]

justinh:

one way to find out: <template>SWEARWORD %1</template> :D

[14:57:17]

sphery:

stuartm: seems it was in there before dbcheck.cpp's oldest schema change (1028), even

[14:57:19]

stuartm:

ah, nevermind, seems that in several cases I've managed to setup duplicate rules

[14:57:49]

sphery:

ah, yeah, I've done that before, too

[14:57:49]

justinh:

stuartm: yup I'm sure now

[14:57:51]

stuartm:

with identical attributes ... wonder if there's a bug there

[14:58:25]

stuartm:

justinh: the truncation is happening the code maybe? Where is that happening?

[14:58:34]

sphery:

we do want to be able to create multiple rules with the same title (actually need to expand the UI to allow that without "tricking" mythfrontend)

[14:58:55]

sphery:

but if we create 2 identical ones--or identical save something like inactive--might make sense to tell the user

[14:58:56]

justinh:

stuartm: playing with mythpopupmenu

[14:59:14]

justinh:

er mythpopupbox I mean

[15:00:35]

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[15:00:42]

justinh:

ah. I set <cutdown>no</cutdown> & now it's not truncating

[15:00:52]

justinh:

but there was more than enough room for the text

[15:01:12]

justinh:

and that was after doing away with the inheritance

[15:01:42]

stuartm:

justinh: ok, that's very strange indeed

[15:01:59]

sphery:

justinh: and your X aspect ratio is correct? And you're using a correct-aspect theme?

[15:02:29]

sphery:

i.e.: xdpyinfo | grep -B2 resolution

[15:02:32]

justinh:

sphery: put it this way, no way would it be that far out

[15:02:36]

stuartm:

sphery: wouldn't hurt to prevent duplicate rules being created

[15:02:41]

sphery:

and make sure the ratio of millimeter measurements is correct for your screen

[15:02:59]

justinh:

sphery: 75x75

[15:03:12]

justinh:

this is on an NX session

[15:03:20]

sphery:

and if you use a 4:3 theme on a 16:9 screen (or vice versa) such that it gets stretched, it will mess up cutdown

[15:03:30]

sphery:

justinh: what's the dimensions line say (the millimeters part)

[15:03:31]

justinh:

there's messing up & there's messing up

[15:03:34]

stuartm:

and tbh it wouldn't need to say anything to the user, just don't save it, and if an identical but inactive rule exists then just make it active again

[15:03:44]

justinh:

sphery: I'll get a screenshot to show you what I mean

[15:03:44]

sphery:

stuartm: makes sense to me

[15:03:50]

sphery:

I'll put that on my list

[15:03:55]

justinh:

I mean it was like a quarter of what it should be or less

[15:03:58]

stuartm:

that's the kind of 'smart' behaviour that the user doesn't need to participate in, it's just common sense

[15:04:42]

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[15:05:45]

justinh:

oh go on you sod... make a liar out of me. LOL

[15:05:48]

justinh:

seems OK now

[15:05:54]

sphery:

heh

[15:06:14]

sphery:

may have something to do with NX weirdness or something

[15:06:35]

justinh:

or something cachey

[15:06:42]

justinh:

anyhoo... it's hometime :)

[15:17:49]

sphery:

k-man: are you http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/486847#486847 ? Or is that (a 3rd) someone else working on MythCenter?

[15:19:53]

sphery:

k-man: nvm... just saw that you referenced that same repo, so it is you

[15:20:01]

sphery:

(should have checked the logs first)

[15:20:28]

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[15:21:01]

stuartm:

justinh: shockingly I've just found that Dixons.co.uk is actually pricing some things competitively, the router I'm considering is Â£5 cheaper there than Amazon and Â£10 cheaper than Ebuyer

[15:21:15]

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[15:24:39]

stuartm:

have DSG finally woken up and realised they need to do something so apparently alien to them as competing on price?

[15:24:46]

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[15:27:09]

stuartm:

heh, not only that but they are currently offering a 10% off voucher on Linksys products

[15:27:31]

stuartm:

well, I never thought I'd see the day but I think they've just won my business

[15:27:31]

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[15:30:01]

AndyCap:

stuartm: of course you want insurance on that, and surge suppressor and a new compatible hi-def ethernet cables?

[15:30:20]

sphery:

ooh, do they have some of those directional ethernet cables?

[15:30:55]

AndyCap:

oh, the ones that will help you elimiate jitter from your dvd.

[15:32:37]

stuartm:

AndyCap: how did you know? Yeah, I've added all of those to my order, it seemed sensible to follow their recommendations, they are the experts after all :)

[15:33:14]

AndyCap:

dixons here have masqueraded as a duopoly. :(

[15:34:00]

awallin:

hi all, is there any preference between pci or usb based dvb-t/c capture cards?

[15:36:42]

iamlindoro:

PCI, since USB has numerous disadvantages and no real advantages

[15:37:23]

sphery:

+1 for PCI and/or PCIe

[15:37:43]

awallin:

thought so too... the shop has two PCI-cards in stock, but the leftover motherboard I have only has one PCI-slot...

[15:37:54]

stuartm:

AndyCap: yeah, Dixons would genuinely be the last place I ever considered buying from, I'm really shocked and a little confused that they've come out so much cheaper than Amazon, Ebuyer, Play or any of the other usual suspects

[15:38:04]

Shadow__X:

is the hdhomerun setup on the backend like a regular hdhomerun? the wiki page does not mention any special instructions

[15:38:34]

sphery:

guessing you mean hdhr prime or something?

[15:38:48]

stuartm:

but although I might not like the way PC World/Dixons have traded over the years, I'm not about to throw away good money by paying more elsewhere

[15:38:50]

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[15:39:00]

Shadow__X:

oh yeah sorry hdhomerun prime

[15:40:08]

sphery:

I'd guess it's basically similar--I'm guessing those 2 know-it-alls, trial and error, would know

[15:40:24]

sphery:

(and once you find out, you can be the one to document it on the wiki :)

[15:40:44]

Shadow__X:

yeah definitely

[15:40:45]

sphery:

that said, it's quite possible someone else in here has already set up a prime

[15:41:13]

Shadow__X:

its sold out right now on newegg but i think i am going to order it as soon as its available again

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[15:52:43]

Shadow__X:

anyone have a prime yet?

[15:56:46]

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[16:07:00]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe they are shipping

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[17:34:47]

paul-h:

justinh, stuartm: The full screen menu dialog is also used for a few scheduler screens for example when you click on a item on the Upcoming Recordings screen and I'm sure it's used in other contexts like when trying to edit the schedule options of a current recording

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[17:58:12]

wagnerrp:

i think my ISP has been disconnected from about half the internet

[17:58:22]

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[17:59:51]

kormoc:

you're still connected to the good half!

[18:01:36]

sphery:

don't be so sure--I'm still here!

[18:03:50]

stuartm:

my local imap server has died and can't be brought back to life, so I'm without email atm

[18:04:38]

jams:

wagnerrp- by any chance are you using quest or xo ?

[18:21:07]

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[18:33:33]

wagnerrp:

cincinnati bell

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wagnerrp:

its strange, mythtv and google work fine

[18:43:00]

wagnerrp:

pennyarcade, the page loads, but the images (different server) do not

[18:43:38]

wagnerrp:

engadget and slashdot load enough of a shell to get the page named, but no content

[18:43:42]

wagnerrp:

gizmodo... nothing

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[20:09:14]

justinh:

paul-h: I couldn't quickly find it so I've had to resort to changing its name til I'm done

[20:09:55]

justinh:

wish there was an easier way – and that's starting to look ever more like a theme test engine

[20:15:40]

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[20:40:58]

justinh:

arghh inkscape uses 7zip for the windows exe? Sucky

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[20:41:16]

wagnerrp:

sucky how?

[20:42:00]

justinh:

having to install yet more junk on my new machine

[20:42:56]

wagnerrp:

you mean they distribute the installer in a 7z file?

[20:43:43]

wagnerrp:

looks like an exe to me

[20:46:11]

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[20:50:41]

justinh:

look at the date of the exe

[20:51:12]

wagnerrp:

says 0.48.1–2, same as everything else

[20:52:11]

justinh:

http://inkscape.modevia.com/win32/inkscape_r1 . . . 107302023.7z

[20:52:15]

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[20:52:33]

wagnerrp:

not inkscape.org?

[20:52:58]

wagnerrp:

you specifically need the developmental version?

[20:53:07]

justinh:

oops

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[21:27:57]

sphery:

wagnerrp: took 5m7s to restore a 101MB (gzip-compressed) DB backup on my X2 5200+. I'd think the partial restore would be around 30–45m (and only because of inefficiencies with the index handling)

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[21:43:40]

stuartm:

"<Beirdo> I'm sure we'll continue to massage until we are all happy :)" ... so there will be a happy ending?

[21:44:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:44:29]

Beirdo:

no comment

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[23:20:20]

wagnerrp:

xris: i thought when you guys were looking at the Revues, you were actually intending to run mythtv on them

[23:20:25]

wagnerrp:

not just use them as passthrough control

[23:22:11]

xris:

wagnerrp: multiple options

[23:22:23]

xris:

there was also some hope of building a lightweight fronted into them

[23:22:56]

kormoc:

meh

[23:22:59]

kormoc:

gtv is dead imho

[23:23:30]

kormoc:

the often promised sdk is still not here (beginning of summer eh?). no app store. Returns are higher then sales...

[23:23:44]

xris:

returns from distributors higher than sales

[23:23:48]

xris:

not retail returns

[23:23:49]

wagnerrp:

if we could install linux on it and use VAAPI, it would offer everything an ION unit does

[23:23:56]

xris:

wagnerrp: yeah

[23:24:21]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, you can, if you want to hack it

[23:24:21]

wagnerrp:

mythtv (trunk) would run directly, assuming its got sufficient memory

[23:24:34]

kormoc:

256 megabytes?

[23:24:41]

wagnerrp:

eech

[23:24:46]

wagnerrp:

nevermind then

[23:24:56]

kormoc:

ooh, 1 gig, whoops

[23:25:31]

wagnerrp:

for $300, its hugely over priced

[23:25:49]

wagnerrp:

for $100, if we could install myth directly, it would be a nice alternative to similarly priced UPNP boxes

[23:26:19]

kormoc:

they've been closing holes used to root the devices every month or two

[23:26:24]

wagnerrp:

and for $100, you wouldn't feel so bad about not having CPU to fall back on should hardware decoding fail you

[23:26:26]

kormoc:

that's the only updates the thing gets these days

[23:26:55]

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[23:27:26]

wagnerrp:

as i understood it, the whole HDMI bit was write only, meaning the hardware could not read it?

[23:27:41]

wagnerrp:

its not like they would have any risk there

[23:27:52]

kormoc:

yeah

[23:28:09]

wagnerrp:

unless they want to control the device for purposes of selling apps (and preventing piracy of said apps)

[23:28:11]

kormoc:

I don't know why they're doing it this way, but people are getting up in arms over it (and all the gpl violations)

[23:28:17]

wagnerrp:

i dont see any reason why they would want to lock the system down

[23:28:33]

wagnerrp:

for that matter, i dont know why all the CE4100 systems are locked down in general

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