Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, July 26th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:08]

stuartm:

or use the -p arg, which is less destructive

[00:00:26]

iamlindoro:

MUST DESTROY

[00:00:27]

iamlindoro:

;)

[00:00:46]

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[00:01:10]

stuartm:

jamesd: I'd use -p before resorting to --reset

[00:02:39]

stuartm:

I should re-write the help text for -p, it doesn't just do what is suggested atm

[00:05:27]

iamlindoro:

I'd use -p too, I didn't realize it existed

[00:06:53]

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[00:07:45]

stuartm:

I'd forgotten about the locale stuff, it would be nice to get some more locale default files created for 0.25

[00:10:02]

stuartm:

and maybe get it extended to include hints for xmltv grabbers and the like

[00:10:25]

sphery:

I was wondering about that when someone asked on the list and I was about to reply "use -p" but the help text didn't say anything about locale

[00:10:34]

** sphery goes to reply to the poor user a few days late **

[00:11:57]

stuartm:

sphery: technically -p was added to force the database selection, but it always had the side effect of displaying the language prompt as we need to show the database prompt in the correct language and we can't read the language setting from the database before we've connected to it :)

[00:12:23]

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[00:12:41]

stuartm:

it might as well be re-imagined as a 'force initial setup prompts'

[00:14:41]

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[00:18:16]

sphery:

can't find the post, now

[00:18:24]

sphery:

sorry, guy... I really tried

[00:22:49]

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[00:24:43]

stuartm:

funny, I vaguely remember that same question come up somewhere – was it a mailing list or was it IRC?

[00:27:16]

sphery:

there was a mailing list post because I wrote a reply--then didn't send it because -p help didn't mention it and I planned to test it sometime

[00:27:34]

sphery:

should be in my drafts...

[00:27:39]

sphery:

but so many in there...

[00:29:13]

stuartm:

sort by date order?

[00:30:52]

sphery:

not in drafts... maybe I didn't save it :(

[00:30:57]

k-man:

on, interestingly I turned on 3d acceleration in virtualbox and it makes mythtv in a guest run much faster

[00:31:11]

k-man:

good for development

[00:33:05]

stuartm:

where-ever it was, the guy was lousy at writing an informative subject line, I can't see anything likely to contain that query or one like it

[00:33:19]

ThisNewGuy:

stuartm: sorry about ticket 9944, are lines 773–776,780–781 of playbackbox.cpp intentional?

[00:35:01]

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[00:35:44]

stuartm:

no, those should have been stripped out too, I forgot that we ended up duplicating that code when chasing optimisations

[00:36:17]

ThisNewGuy:

would you like a patch?

[00:36:49]

ThisNewGuy:

I guess it's trivial enough for you to do quickly

[00:38:43]

stuartm:

pushed

[00:38:59]

ThisNewGuy:

cool – thanks

[00:39:24]

stuartm:

I've made a note to refactor that so that we don't have two places doing the exact same thing

[00:40:31]

sphery:

oobe: just got around to testing my MythVideo jump points, and they're working fine for me

[00:41:23]

stuartm:

now I'm going to bed, so just watch that commit break compilation the moment my back is turned ;)

[00:41:47]

ThisNewGuy:

:-)

[00:41:51]

oobe:

yea sorry I had the binding from my old install set to MythVideo but now I had to get it to use a different binding i.e choose gallery view or list etc.

[00:42:12]

oobe:

but before upgrade it was set to the old binding which appears to no longer work

[00:42:30]

oobe:

I decided to look again at the binding menu and found more options

[00:42:41]

oobe:

I mainly use gallery view

[00:43:08]

stuartm:

wow that was a long lag, 4 minutes between 'git push' and github triggering the commit hooks

[00:43:51]

sphery:

oobe: good, glad you figured it out

[00:44:24]

oobe:

yea thanks i just didnt know there was a change when I first mentioned it

[00:45:00]

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[01:08:02]

sphery:

stuartm: I'm way deep in the rabbit hole trying to fix #9936 (and am getting into #7322 (and your suggestion at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7322#comment:5 ) and #8250 and #7939 material (all regarding the hack that just sends a bunch of escape keys to go to main menu). However, it seems that calling MythMainWindow::ExitToMainMenu() doesn't actually cause it to exit to main menu, right? Do you know what the function is for?

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[02:00:32]

k-man:

in the http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Devel . . . signed_Names doco, it says 'We've created a textarea widget with a name of "title." "Title" is one of the preassigned' are theme tags case sensitive?

[02:02:26]

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[02:12:05]

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[02:12:35]

yates:

does anyone know of a video card with direct component video outputs?

[02:12:53]

yates:

(instead of having to use a DVI-component video adapter?)

[02:13:06]

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[02:13:08]

k-man:

yates, for SD or HD tv?

[02:13:13]

yates:

HD monitor

[02:13:26]

k-man:

no, sorry, can't help

[02:13:31]

yates:

i don't know of any sd that uses component vid.

[02:13:39]

[R]:

theres a few

[02:13:52]

[R]:

most use adapter cables

[02:13:55]

[R]:

but its not dvi

[02:14:01]

yates:

what then?

[02:14:09]

k-man:

I remember when CRT monitors with component input were the top of the line

[02:14:14]

yates:

what's the pc interface?

[02:14:25]

yates:

k-man: i'm not talking of rgb

[02:14:30]

k-man:

oh

[02:14:31]

k-man:

sorry

[02:14:36]

[R]:

nvidia does it

[02:14:38]

[R]:

trying to find a pic

[02:14:44]

yates:

[R]: ok, thx

[02:14:52]

yates:

i love nvidia, too

[02:14:57]

yates:

been using them for >5 years

[02:15:33]

[R]:

http://www.scan.co.uk/images/products/220177.jpg

[02:15:38]

[R]:

basically the nvidia cards with svideo

[02:15:41]

[R]:

but its not a real svideo plug

[02:15:43]

[R]:

its got extra pins

[02:15:56]

[R]:

so you need to find the correct adpater for the nvidia card

[02:15:59]

yates:

yeah, but S-Video?

[02:16:03]

[R]:

cuz ati is diff from nvidia

[02:16:04]

yates:

yuck

[02:16:04]

[R]:

no

[02:16:06]

[R]:

its not svideo

[02:16:14]

[R]:

its extra pins on the svideo port

[02:16:19]

yates:

ah

[02:16:25]

[R]:

some have 9 pin some have 7 pin

[02:16:28]

[R]:

svideo is only 4

[02:16:47]

yates:

are these types of things good for full 1200 120 Hz p?

[02:17:01]

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[02:17:12]

yates:

(does hd go to 120 p? or is it just 60p?)

[02:18:02]

yates:

i should say 1080 p?

[02:18:24]

[R]:

yes, you can do 1080

[02:18:38]

wagnerrp:

yates: you can find some older nVidia 8 and 9 series cards

[02:18:47]

wagnerrp:

but theyre no longer manufactured, so theyll be expensive

[02:19:09]

yates:

wagnerrp: thanks for making me aware of the option, nonetheless

[02:19:31]

yates:

ok, thanks [R], k-man, wagnerrp, et al.

[02:19:32]

wagnerrp:

none of the GT2xx or newer will have any analog TV outputs

[02:19:48]

wagnerrp:

nor will any of the 8 or 9 series integrated chipsets

[02:20:04]

yates:

what do folks do who have an older HD monitor that has no HDMI, just component video?

[02:20:11]

yates:

(and don't say "buy a new tv"!)

[02:20:43]

yates:

am i on the right track?

[02:20:47]

wagnerrp:

use DVI or VGA

[02:21:03]

yates:

wagnerrp: you mean an adpater? dvi->component?

[02:21:06]

yates:

e.g.

[02:21:20]

wagnerrp:

no, i mean your TV doesnt have DVI or VGA inputs either?

[02:21:25]

k-man:

what inputs does your monitor have? just component?

[02:21:51]

yates:

wagnerrp: yes it does, but i want to utilize the higher quality component video inputs

[02:21:58]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[02:22:10]

yates:

er, wait

[02:22:29]

wagnerrp:

DVI and VGA will both push much higher resolution than component, if your TV supports it on those inputs

[02:22:44]

yates:

no, it does not have DVI or VGA inputs, only S-Video, component

[02:22:52]

yates:

it's about 8 years old

[02:23:00]

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[02:23:07]

yates:

Toshiba 65H80

[02:23:34]

yates:

ok, well thanks folks. signing off.

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[02:39:44]

k-man:

hmm... if I try and do a screengrab when in program details, it seems to not grap the correct screen

[02:40:31]

k-man:

anyone else seen that behaviour?

[02:42:39]

k-man:

hmm... no, it seems to be everywhere in myth

[02:42:40]

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k-man:

further more, it seems as though the mythwelcome screen changes to be some sort of grab of what my windows were

[02:48:47]

[R]:

try turning off opengl

[02:48:59]

k-man:

[R], ah, that could be it

[02:49:50]

k-man:

where is the setting? I can't seem to see it

[02:52:25]

[R]:

appearcnace

[02:53:03]

k-man:

yes, looked there – maybe it's not showign up in mythcenter on master?

[02:53:17]

[R]:

nothgin to do with the theme

[02:53:37]

k-man:

ok, maybe I am going blind then

[02:58:36]

k-man:

oh well, I turned off 3D acceleration in virtualbox and that fixed it

[02:59:55]

k-man:

anyway, the whole point of that excercise was I spotted this problem in MythCenter: http://flip.dyndns.org/images/myth-screenshot . . . 8-28.503.png

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[03:01:36]

k-man:

hmm – it does not occur in mythcenter-wide either

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k-man:

ah cool, I fixed it

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[05:08:29]

jst:

Is there any way to set echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor' before launching MythTV and then setting it back to ondemand when I'm done? I need it set to performance for VDPAU.

[05:08:39]

[R]:

echo blah

[05:08:41]

[R]:

mythfrontend

[05:08:42]

[R]:

ehco blah

[05:09:03]

jst:

It requires superuser.

[05:09:15]

[R]:

echo blah | sudo tee blah2

[05:09:39]

jst:

Which file should I edit?

[05:09:46]

[R]:

the script you use to start myth

[05:10:19]

jst:

Ot

[05:10:24]

jst:

It's binary. :)

[05:10:30]

[R]:

?

[05:10:36]

jst:

err, mythbackend, my bad

[05:10:45]

[R]:

?

[05:10:53]

wagnerrp:

jst: you have an old Athlon 64 with an onboard nvidia chip?

[05:11:09]

jst:

Yes.

[05:13:10]

jst:

Do I need to make a script? I just don't want to have to enter my superuser account each time I launch it.

[05:17:21]

wagnerrp:

look into sudo

[05:17:39]

wagnerrp:

it will let you restrict what applications can be run in such a matter

[05:18:26]

jst:

cd

[05:18:29]

jst:

whoops

[05:21:06]

jst:

echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor

[05:21:06]

jst:

echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_governor

[05:21:06]

jst:

mythfrontend

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jst:

permission denied

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oobe:

jst, sudo usually doesnt work with /usr/devices/* files I have to manually do it with a root shell

[06:00:20]

oobe:

it might be possible to run a script as root that does it then runs mythfrontend as user

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[07:20:09]

justinh:

all this cpu scaling stuff tends to put me in mind of very old machines with the 'turbo' switch. did anybody ever *not* keep that thing on all the time? ;-)

[07:20:51]

justinh:

"muh, but I can save $0.02 per month by using frequency scaling"

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[07:39:37]

justinh:

oo. think I might've found another compelling reason to upgrade

[07:40:18]

justinh:

mythmusic can't see a couple of albums (at least) because the dirs have dashes in the filename. They're in the database but not showing up in the tree view or playlist editor

[07:41:38]

justinh:

wonder how many more dirs like that I've got

[07:42:46]

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[07:43:11]

justinh:

hmm it's not the dash then

[07:43:21]

justinh:

maybe it's the directory length

[07:44:13]

justinh:

see if mythmusic can see "whatever people say I am, that's what I'm not"

[07:44:21]

justinh:

yup. strange

[07:44:31]

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[07:44:39]

justinh:

wonder if it was brackets messing it up then

[07:45:39]

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[07:47:11]

justinh:

nah not that either. ach well. I need to upgrade anyway, so.. maybe it's time to just opt for packages. CBA compiling on 2 machines

[07:47:30]

justinh:

assuming both my boxes are running the same ubuntu. sigh

[07:48:01]

justinh:

might be time to go diskless again though.. or SSD, the way my son keeps lifting the frontend & bashing it down again

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[08:01:36]

slacker-:

Hey, is there a way in jamu.py to rename a single file the way files get renamed when you move directories with the -MF flags?

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[08:07:22]

slacker-:

uhm, let me try something first

[08:09:07]

slacker-:

alright, never mind

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[08:42:58]

oobe:

wagnerrp, my video card hasnt made the same bad noises at all today? I'm wondering if I need to replace it still maybe it will just be ok again

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[10:30:26]

laga_:

new HTPC is ordered. \o/

[10:30:58]

laga_:

there was talk about doing semi-regular mythtv releases. is there something like a schedule or is it done when it's done?

[10:36:37]

stuartm:

k-man: names are case sensitive but by convention all names _should_ be lower case

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[10:46:25]

wagnerrp:

oobe: lubrication can re-shift inside a bearing, and provide temporary relief

[10:46:33]

wagnerrp:

but once it starts making noise, the clock is set

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[10:48:20]

oobe:

ah that is what I was worried about

[10:48:43]

oobe:

thanks wagnerrp I'm gonna go ahead and order a new one online

[10:49:08]

oobe:

the shop I went to didnt have any fanless ones in stock then when I got home I haven had any noise issues since

[10:49:14]

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[10:49:32]

wagnerrp:

you dont have to do it right now, if the noise has stopped

[10:49:47]

wagnerrp:

just realize that youve only got a couple months of life on that thing at the most

[10:50:08]

oobe:

Im getting this one http://www.skycomp.com.au/item/GAINWARD-NVIDI . . . VI-HDMI.aspx

[10:50:31]

oobe:

slightly less powerful than the asus but $20 cheaper I doubt I would notice the difference

[10:50:41]

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[10:50:57]

oobe:

I might replace it and sell it on ebay with a note on its existing condition

[10:52:16]

oobe:

Will be nice to have a silent GPU my cpu hsf is almost silent

[10:52:42]

oobe:

I think my PSU makes a little noise but the most noticable is my GPU even before the problem

[11:00:20]

oobe:

any thoughts on that gainward I linked to before I go ahead and buy it wagnerrp

[11:01:57]

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[11:02:05]

wagnerrp:

should work fine

[11:02:37]

oobe:

yea thats about all I wanted to hear I cant imagine there be much else to say

[11:02:55]

oobe:

thanks

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iamlindoro:

Geolocation FAIL, no I am not in Florida... only missed it by 3000 miles

[15:12:02]

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[15:14:41]

stuartm:

I only wish it was that crappy all the time

[15:17:07]

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[15:18:32]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Well, it's less amusing when it's the basis for which server you get

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[15:33:51]

** sphery wonders if iamlindoro is using his computer as a proxy **

[15:34:23]

iamlindoro:

heh, just trying to speed test the new fiber at work

[15:34:38]

iamlindoro:

It's less conclusive when you're testing transcontinentally

[15:34:46]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[15:35:05]

sphery:

and I think you'll find that using my computer as a proxy slows down your result

[15:35:39]

sphery:

you and your trying to circumvent the use restrictions on FLulu

[15:38:34]

iamlindoro:

Is that just "Real Policewomen of Broward County" played on a loop?

[15:40:26]

sphery:

heh

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[16:06:37]

sphery:

stuartm: found the post... on -translators!

[16:07:26]

sphery:

(this being the one about resetting language)

[16:07:47]

sphery:

seems gossamer isn't indexing it--which is why my gossamer search wasn't finding it

[16:09:09]

sphery:

FWIW, http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-transl . . . /000154.html

[16:12:12]

stuartm:

sphery: ah, that explains how I came to read it (since I'm not subscribed to -users)

[16:12:26]

sphery:

yeah, that should have been my first clue to check other lists...

[16:12:30]

stuartm:

I didn't think to look there when searching

[16:12:42]

sphery:

I didn't realize that gossamer wasn't archiving -translators

[16:13:02]

sphery:

wonder if someone should mention it to them

[16:13:15]

sphery:

don't we have someone who knows someone there?

[16:14:25]

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[16:15:11]

stuartm:

I should have replied the moment I read it, but I was working through a backlog of emails and I just forgot to go back

[16:15:59]

sphery:

yeah, I know how that goes

[16:16:38]

stuartm:

which reminds me, I need to reply to a personal email from 4 weeks ago

[16:17:17]

sphery:

guess I spent less than 10m (autosave duration) writing my reply and clicked "don't save" when I closed the window, since it didn't make it into drafts at all

[16:17:28]

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[16:23:02]

sphery:

stuartm: So a quick question for you... MythMainWindow::ExitToMainMenu() is the function that needs rewritten to use the MythScreenStack to pop all the windows off the stack to get back to the main menu instead of sending new Escape key events, right? (The approach you mentioned we need to do at http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7322#comment:5 so we don't need hacks like #7322, #8250, and the one that was proposed (but not accepted) ...

[16:23:08]

sphery:

... for #7939 .)

[16:23:13]

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[16:23:47]

sphery:

stuartm: if so, would you prefer to just put the mythscreenstack iteration inside ExitToMainMenu() or create a new MythScreenStack::PopAll() function?

[16:24:03]

sphery:

(then call PopAll() from ExitToMainMenu())

[16:26:18]

stuartm:

adding a PopAll() type function would be tidier, it would need to be called for all stacks so watch out for that

[16:26:42]

sphery:

is all stacks just the popup and main stack?

[16:26:48]

sphery:

or could there be "custom" stacks?

[16:27:19]

stuartm:

a plugin could conceivably create it's own stack

[16:27:23]

stuartm:

in fact mythweather does

[16:27:38]

sphery:

and, if I'm reading the code right, the callbacks will only occur when at the top level of the main menu, right? so no need to worry about callbacks except in ExitToMainMenu(), right?

[16:27:39]

stuartm:

let me check something

[16:27:45]

sphery:

ok... thanks

[16:28:53]

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[16:29:09]

sphery:

Just figuring that to fix #9936 properly, we should just make reloadTheme() pop all windows (so we never get into the same situation we have, now, regardless of how/when the function is called). And, to do that right, we might as well just fix the ExitToMainMenu() stuff--and remove the hacks from #7322 and #8250 and fix #7939 in the process.

[16:29:33]

sphery:

(though since you mentioned something about the OSD not using screen stacks, that one might not get fixed...)

[16:29:35]

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[16:29:36]

stuartm:

MythMainWindow keeps a list of stacks, so you can just iterate over that

[16:29:46]

sphery:

cool

[16:30:03]

stuartm:

stackList in MythMainWindowPrivate

[16:30:16]

sphery:

great--that will make it easier

[16:30:21]

sphery:

hadn't found it, yet

[16:30:50]

sphery:

so for callbacks? does PopAll() need to be concerned about them?

[16:32:53]

stuartm:

no

[16:33:33]

sphery:

great--wanted to verify I was reading that right since I had no idea how to test for something I didn't think existed :)

[16:34:24]

sphery:

anyway, I'll bounce the patch off you before I push it--but thanks for the info. I found out, yesterday, that it was a bit over my head.

[16:34:34]

stuartm:

I'm wondering whether we need to be concerned about certain screens saving state when we use jumppoints, or whether it's reasonable to assume that the user didn't want changes saved if they exit via a jumppoint

[16:35:00]

sphery:

I'm thinking the latter is reasonable

[16:35:03]

sphery:

at least as a first pass

[16:35:15]

sphery:

wouldn't it be the same as now?

[16:35:35]

sphery:

actually, some might save state with escape...

[16:36:10]

stuartm:

and the potential for leaks in screens that place cleanup in Close() instead of the destructor – we should audit for that, but it's not directly a fault of any jumppoint changes we make

[16:36:37]

sphery:

heh, funny how a tiny bug fix turns into tons of new jobs

[16:36:38]

stuartm:

sphery: ESCAPE calls Close(), PopScreen() is one level down from there

[16:36:59]

sphery:

all this just so that we can change themes with the theme chooser without first flashing the old theme's main menu on screen

[16:37:26]

sphery:

(and without breaking exit :)

[16:37:58]

sphery:

oh, well, at least it touches on 4 tickets (though I'm pretty sure I'll have to convert the OSD to use MythScreenStack for #7939 to be fixed)

[16:38:32]

stuartm:

sphery: there are existing bugs with calling ESCAPE(), take the new mythmusic metadata editor, it puts up a "Save changes" popup when you press ESCAPE – that needs changing anyway since it's inconsistent with elsewhere where ESCAPE exits without saving, the user needs to hit a save button if they wanted to keep the changes

[16:38:42]

stuartm:

s/ESCAPE()/ESCAPE/

[16:38:57]

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[16:39:08]

sphery:

yeah, and the jump point's sending the escape key doesn't work well for users who remap ESCAPE action to some other keylist

[16:39:38]

sphery:

mythcontrols also does the popup "do you want to save"...

[16:40:03]

sphery:

perhaps I should rework that to be a big, easy to see "save" button, and escape without save doesn't save

[16:40:11]

stuartm:

sphery: for a first run just replacing the ESCAPE loop with the screenstack popall() loop would be enough, we can find and fix the resulting issues afterwards

[16:40:14]

sphery:

(right now you have to find save in MENU)

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[16:40:25]

sphery:

sounds good

[16:40:37]

sphery:

thanks for all the info--especially all the parts I hadn't considered

[16:40:40]

stuartm:

it's not going to cause _more_ bugs that the existing implementation, that has plenty of it's own issues

[16:40:48]

sphery:

yeah, sounds good

[16:41:13]

sphery:

and as we find the new bugs, we can fix them--properly--rather than perpetuating an old hack that we inherited from pre-mythui days

[16:41:20]

sphery:

just to avoid adding a few bugs

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[16:47:47]

stuartm:

I'm looking again at a gigabit router, I'm disappointed that prices haven't fallen like I thought they would, it's not that they are too expensive they just aren't dirt cheap :)

[16:48:16]

wagnerrp:

get a dirt cheap gigabit switch to go with your old 10/100 router?

[16:49:07]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: well they are even harder to find, retail outlets over here just aren't selling consumer grade switches

[16:49:55]

stuartm:

it's routers, wireless routers at that, or a few hundred quid for 24 port switches, there's little or nothing else on offer

[16:51:20]

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[16:52:00]

wagnerrp:

ive got a pair of these in the basement... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122111

[16:52:01]

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[16:52:16]

wagnerrp:

although in hindsight, i wouldnt wish netgear hardware on anyone

[16:52:50]

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[16:53:35]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: all my current gear is Netgear, I've never had any notable issues with it and that's why I'd probably stick with what I know

[16:54:05]

wagnerrp:

if you have one piece of hardware, youre probably fine

[16:54:13]

wagnerrp:

if you have two or more pieces of hardware

[16:54:19]

stuartm:

the Netgear router and AP replaced other, less reliable kit from other manufacturers I've tried over the years

[16:54:22]

wagnerrp:

they have some funky bug in the firmware

[16:54:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

Hi guys.... I'm working on an a web-based status screen that would refresh at least every 60 seconds – is doing a "wget http://localhost:6544/xml" every minute a bad idea?

[16:54:42]

wagnerrp:

in which they will broadcast traffic back out on the same port it came in on

[16:54:52]

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[16:55:02]

wagnerrp:

one broadcasts to the first, the first bounces it back

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[16:55:21]

wagnerrp:

and you kick up a packet storm that can only be fixed by power cycling all of them at the same time

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[16:56:35]

wagnerrp:

i see it on my little 8-ports

[16:56:45]

wagnerrp:

i see it on several generations of 24-port switches we have at work

[16:57:14]

stuartm:

actually that particular switch, and some others are available from ebuyer here, but when they are asking ~£50, the all-in-one router/switch/wireless represents much better value at just £85

[16:57:29]

wagnerrp:

meanwhile, the handful of linksys switches just shut off access to those ports for being dumb, and continue on their merry way

[16:58:48]

wagnerrp:

can you buy from amazon?

[16:58:51]

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[16:58:59]

wagnerrp:

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Dual-Band-Wire . . . g=slicinc-20

[16:59:13]

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[16:59:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

"reburbished" always makes me nervous – but it is a Cisco... wow...

[17:00:18]

stuartm:

J-e-f-f-A: right, but do they make the low end kit themselves?

[17:00:55]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: we have a UK Amazon store, but I can also buy from the US store if I'm willing to pay the delivery

[17:03:52]

stuartm:

the specs on that Cisco are extremely good

[17:04:05]

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[17:04:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

And it seems to have excellent reviews...

[17:04:39]

stuartm:

oh right, yeah, that's the Cisco branded Linksys kit

[17:05:13]

Bret_:

thinking about setting up MythTV back end on my Ubuntu server and I'm thinking about HDHomeRUn as my capture device. Any suggestions on which model to get?

[17:05:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

ooh, it'll run dd-wrt... humm... ;-)

[17:05:48]

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[17:05:50]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: I have two dual-tuner HDHR's on my box.

[17:05:53]

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[17:06:31]

Bret_:

J-e-f-f-A: Which models have you had success with?

[17:06:49]

Bret_:

HSHR3s?

[17:06:52]

stuartm:

ooh, I can get it new for £20 less than the Netgear

[17:07:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: The only ones I use are the original ones – the US ATSC dual-tuner models – they are white.

[17:08:08]

Bret_:

Do you know anything about the TECH3

[17:08:18]

wagnerrp:

you dont want it

[17:08:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: no, I don't – seems like a new model.

[17:09:12]

wagnerrp:

the tech tuners are the standard HDHR, with a modified firmware for upnp and multicast support

[17:09:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: Here's the one I have: http://www.amazon.com/SiliconDust-HDHomeRun-H . . . 4&sr=8-1

[17:10:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: Model "HDHR-US"

[17:10:41]

Bret_:

thanks J-e-f-f-A!

[17:10:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: looks like they shrunk the size down too...

[17:11:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

Bret_: I have two, for 4 ATSC tuners, and have never had a problem with them — going on 2 or 3 years now...

[17:11:49]

** J-e-f-f-A wishes he could say the same about his HD-PVRs... D'oh!!! Although they've been quite stable since he put a fan blowing on them 24/7... **

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[17:12:17]

wagnerrp:

open it up and slap on a heatsink

[17:12:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: yeah, I just hadn't gotten around to doing that yet. ;-) This was a simple, quick fix. ;-)

[17:13:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

ie: Clip fan on shelf, Plug in, Turn on. ;-) Done!

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[17:18:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

So... is doing a "wget http://localhost:6544/xml" every minute a bad idea? I'm hacking together a web-based MythTV status screen to run continuously on a full-screen browser, and you can't get the tuner status from anywhere else but the backend...

[17:18:21]

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[17:18:58]

wagnerrp:

i wont say its a bad thing

[17:19:07]

wagnerrp:

but there are probably better sources of that data

[17:19:16]

sid3windr:

let's say you'll be testing for memory leaks! ;)

[17:19:17]

** sid3windr runs **

[17:19:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Yeah, I figured as much – via the perl bindings?

[17:20:01]

wagnerrp:

or php bindings

[17:20:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

sid3windr: That's exactly what I was thinking... and wanting to avoid.

[17:20:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Ooh, didn't realize the php bindings covered that... humm....

[17:20:29]

wagnerrp:

you can make the cover that

[17:20:34]

wagnerrp:

*them

[17:21:01]

laga:

just in case someone is looking for htpc hardware, this is what I ordered the other day: http://geizhals.at/deutschland/?cat=WL-169252 – haven't put it together yet, though :)

[17:21:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

Here's my current proof-of-concept – does a WGET, a mysql select (to get tuner names), and mashes it all together with a series of sed commands... http://tinyurl.com/3qyl8uc

[17:22:01]

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[17:22:03]

wagnerrp:

laga: no boot drive?

[17:22:18]

wagnerrp:

boot/database

[17:22:31]

laga:

wagnerrp: the deathstar will be the boot drive. but i see what you're getting at.

[17:22:40]

laga:

wagnerrp: perhaps i'll throw in an USB stick

[17:23:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

laga: For performance, you'll want your DB on a seperate disk than your recordings... and you wouldn't want it on a usb stick!

[17:24:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

laga: I recently bought a SSD for my OS & DB, and have no regrets... it FLIES!!!

[17:24:22]

wagnerrp:

id suggest getting a 7200rpm 2.5" drive, rather than a USB stick

[17:24:29]

wagnerrp:

or get a smallish SSD

[17:24:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

mine is 60GB

[17:24:56]

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[17:26:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

I've got >500 channels, >1200 recordings, etc... The SSD makes a HUGE difference on my backend...

[17:27:31]

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[17:30:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

laga: hehe... Nice case – it's basically the Antec Fusion Black with a different face (dual 5.25" drive bays and no LCD) Does it come with a remote?

[17:32:29]

laga:

J-e-f-f-A: no, no remote. i have a remote lying around.. or five ;)

[17:32:53]

laga:

J-e-f-f-A, wagnerrp: thanks for the input on the second drive. i have an SSD in my laptop and it's the best thing ever

[17:33:13]

laga:

this build is done on a budget, so will probably be an adding a small ssd next month or so

[17:35:28]

laga:

i could also try enabling laptop mode to let the disk sleep more. won't help with performance considerations, though

[17:36:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

laga: Yeah, like I said, it makes a HUGE difference on my system... Mine is 60GB (55GB formatted), and I've got a 50GB partition for the OS & DB, and it's got 13GB free – and I run a 'bloated' OS – Fedora Core. ;-)

[17:36:52]

laga:

my ssd in the laptop is encrypted and it still runs circles around my desktop. the difference is amazing

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[17:47:44]

laga:

the ocz onyx is very affordable at 55€ for 32GB and sufficiently fast

[17:47:53]

laga:

not really fast, but faster than a hdd

[17:47:57]

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[17:48:45]

wagnerrp:

just be warned that the smaller an SSD, the lower the reliability

[17:49:03]

laga:

oh, why is that? less spare blocks?

[17:49:15]

wagnerrp:

less area for the write leveler to work on

[17:49:28]

wagnerrp:

MLC flash only gets around 10k writes

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[17:49:53]

wagnerrp:

so the fewer blocks you have total, the less the card can move stuff around

[17:49:57]

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[17:50:16]

laga:

hum. that makes sense if you assume that total reads/writes do not increase linearly with ssd size, yeah :)

[17:53:29]

wagnerrp:

plus youre only talking about log files and database

[17:53:40]

wagnerrp:

which isnt going to be a significant amount of access

[17:53:59]

stuartm:

and yet for most purposes a modern SSD should offer a lifespan equivlent to the average HDD

[17:54:49]

laga:

yes

[17:54:57]

wagnerrp:

yeah, a 32GB boot drive with decent firmware should last several years

[17:54:57]

laga:

besides, it's not a big deal if the DVR fails

[17:55:29]

stuartm:

it's easy to get hung up on MTBF figures between different SSDs and not realise that these days they are in the same neighbourhood as those for HDD

[17:56:14]

wagnerrp:

honestly, ive been running my firewall on a CF card for a couple years now, and the log files still havent yet given me problems

[17:56:39]

wagnerrp:

although i keep the system duplicated on an identical card, should the need ever arise

[17:57:58]

stuartm:

most people will upgrade and dispose of it before it fails, unless you're the kind of obsessive hardware hoarder who builds MythTV boxes out of old 40GB HDDS, 15 year old CPUs and string

[17:58:19]

** wagnerrp uses tube socks you insensitive clod **

[17:58:38]

stuartm:

;)

[17:59:09]

wagnerrp:

and clothes pins, and paperclips

[17:59:47]

wagnerrp:

http://cllctr.com/image/56d903cea7ca40e6e21151b7a1166651

[18:17:49]

StevenR:

hrrm. is it possible to distribute the backend functions over several systems, like having a machine with tuners, that could talk to a machine with the db, storage, video processing power, etc. (I'm looking at options for my parents, and what hardware I'd need, because I don't really want a power hungry computer where their TV aerial is)

[18:18:26]

wagnerrp:

you can put a power hungry computer in the basement, and a HDHomeRun where their TV aerial is

[18:19:15]

** wagnerrp wonders who was messing around with VMWare last night **

[18:19:21]

sphery:

though you can put the db anywhere on the network, I highly recommend putting it on the master backend host--mainly because it means one less point of failure

[18:19:27]

StevenR:

wagnerrp: can this hdhomerun thing be a frontend ?

[18:19:32]

wagnerrp:

no

[18:19:41]

StevenR:

hrrm.

[18:19:43]

sphery:

it's just an ethernet-output capture device

[18:19:46]

StevenR:

oh.

[18:19:56]

sphery:

it's basically a capture "card" that uses ethernet instead of PCI or USB

[18:20:26]

wagnerrp:

twelve instances of VMWare systems on smolt, all from yesterday

[18:20:38]

sphery:

you can do a nice low-power, low-noise frontend machine next to the TV

[18:20:45]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: And all unique?

[18:20:48]

sphery:

and if you're willing to pay for it, you can even make it small and pretty

[18:21:04]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: im assuming theyre all unique images, on the same machine

[18:21:15]

iamlindoro:

yucky

[18:21:23]

wagnerrp:

they kept cycling through the same kernel revisions on gentoo, linhes, and mythbuntu

[18:21:58]

wagnerrp:

actually no, only one profile of each, updated five times i suppose

[18:22:00]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, I've been using FF5 now for about a month and I can't figure out why sometimes it uses Switch to Tab and sometimes it doesn't

[18:22:08]

wagnerrp:

dont know why its showing repeated UUIDs

[18:22:14]

sphery:

the awesome bar is more of a confused/confusing bar

[18:22:27]

wagnerrp:

http://smolt.mythtv.org/reports/view_device/V . . . ne%20Chipset

[18:22:27]

StevenR:

sphery: yeah, I can get a frontend box that's low power, but ideally I'd like it to have the tuner in it too.

[18:22:49]

wagnerrp:

StevenR: if youre going to have another power hungry box elsewhere, what for?

[18:22:56]

sphery:

StevenR: I do recommend getting a low-powered real computer--like a nice core i3 or something

[18:23:08]

wagnerrp:

tuners just add bulk and power usage to a machine

[18:23:16]

stuartm:

and heat

[18:23:16]

wagnerrp:

making something that is no longer small or low power

[18:23:25]

sphery:

old articles: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-ato . . . cy,2069.html

[18:23:30]

stuartm:

most tuners emit large amounts of heat

[18:23:39]

StevenR:

wagnerrp: a hauppage usb freeview tuner is big and high powered?

[18:23:51]

wagnerrp:

no, but it is USB

[18:23:58]

sphery:

oh, we didn't realize you didn't want reliable tuners :)

[18:24:02]

wagnerrp:

meaning youve got some funky thing hanging off the outside of your case

[18:24:12]

StevenR:

sphery: I have two, seem decently reliable so far

[18:24:18]

wagnerrp:

thats reason enough to stay away from 'dongle' style tuners

[18:24:21]

sphery:

(I don't trust USB for any long-term reliability)

[18:25:11]

stuartm:

sphery: in fairness to USB, the Nova-T 500 I've used for 2–3 years now has been reliable since all the driver issues were ironed out

[18:25:33]

iamlindoro:

* And when paired with a reliable USB chipset + chipset drivers

[18:26:46]

StevenR:

sphery: yeah, I'd like them to get an i3 or something, cos then it could do all their server functions too... need to find a decently small case that can go under the tv

[18:27:10]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure

[18:27:29]

StevenR:

(this is for my parents, I already went the i3-shuttle route)

[18:27:54]

stuartm:

in my experience small isn't too hard, but if you also need it to look pretty that's more difficult

[18:28:28]

StevenR:

stuartm: it has to pass the "Mother Test"

[18:28:43]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186211

[18:28:49]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116397

[18:29:22]

** iamlindoro always strongly recommends that people be ready to perform 100% of maintenance and be extremely advanced MythTV users when setting up boxes for others **

[18:29:24]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185129

[18:29:48]

eddytv:

StevenR: personally, I use this for my front-end: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173012

[18:30:02]

wagnerrp:

booo

[18:30:06]

iamlindoro:

ie, remember that setting up a Mythbox that is unlikely to ever crash or need maintenance is a combination of extremely careful hardware choice, a high level of MythTV experience, and quite a bit of luck

[18:30:11]

eddytv:

The only thing I needed to add was two 1GB SODIMMs.

[18:30:23]

wagnerrp:

and content that the nvidia chip can handle

[18:30:23]

eddytv:

They boot over Ethernet, so no disk at all.

[18:30:24]

StevenR:

iamlindoro: I intend to have an openvpn set up. Ubuntu/Kubuntu has been the default for them for *years*.

[18:30:36]

iamlindoro:

StevenR: I'm not referring to Linux experience

[18:31:29]

StevenR:

iamlindoro: I consider Dad sufficiently competent :)

[18:31:38]

wagnerrp:

eddytv: you do realize that the zbox costs about as much as the i3 system i linked above, right?

[18:31:46]

stuartm:

yeah, what iamlindoro said has to be kept in mind, if you build/supply the box then you'll be expected to answer regular questions about how it works and the like – you wouldn't have to deal with the same if you suggested they buy an off-the-shelf Freeview PVR

[18:31:47]

iamlindoro:

StevenR: Competent and extremely experienced with <MythTV?

[18:32:14]

StevenR:

iamlindoro: he'll learn. This is something *he wants to do*

[18:32:21]

StevenR:

iamlindoro: he's just not very quick at buying hardware

[18:32:31]

stuartm:

I don't want to paint MythTV as not being user friendly, but it's not nearly as user friendly as I'd like it to be

[18:33:20]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah, I set up a Myth box for a friend and am doing >95% of the maintenance on it--where the 5% he does is generally the basics when something fails

[18:33:47]

StevenR:

stuartm: I do all that anyway. Have been doing so for years. Family Sys/Net-admin / Geek is, and probably always will be, my role.

[18:33:53]

eddytv:

wagnerrp: I saw the enclosure, motherboard, Pentium CPU, and the cooler. What about a video card?

[18:34:02]

wagnerrp:

built into the CPU

[18:34:05]

stuartm:

nor is it likely to reach that stage any time soon, for every step we make towards user-friendliness we take another half-step backwards because everyone has a different idea of what 'user friendly' really means

[18:34:14]

sphery:

I keep thinking I should start transitioning him over to Mythbuntu, but since I don't know *buntu, we'd both have to learn a lot

[18:34:39]

eddytv:

wagnerrp: so you just let the CPU do all the work and don't use any hardware acceleration?

[18:34:45]

StevenR:

eddytv: I looked at zboxes, but I'd still need a backend *near* the aerial

[18:34:56]

wagnerrp:

eddytv: thats the idea

[18:35:02]

sphery:

I don't want to paint MythTV as not being user friendly, but yesterday MythTV mugged me and beat me up in the alley behind the house...

[18:35:11]

wagnerrp:

although with 0.25, the VAAPI acceleration in the i3/i5 chips will be supported

[18:35:17]

sphery:

(OK, it's not that bad... :)

[18:35:29]

eddytv:

StevenR: yes, but the beauty of MythTV is you put a backend *anywhere*, and then you can put small, low-power, quiet, "mother approving" front-ends wherever you need them

[18:35:30]

sphery:

where supported does not mean useful

[18:35:55]

sphery:

it means if you're willing to live with the limitations of the Intel chips and their drivers, you can use it

[18:35:57]

StevenR:

eddytv: ok... where does the tuner go then? With the backend, right?

[18:36:18]

** sphery thinks too many people are expecting "Intel VDPAU" when they hear we'll support Intel VAAPI **

[18:36:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

StevenR: yes.

[18:36:38]

eddytv:

Yes. Put in a Hauppauge 2250 dual-tuner and they can even record two things at once.

[18:36:47]

StevenR:

eddytv: so I need the backend in the front room.

[18:36:52]

sphery:

but, hey, if you like to watch video with tearing and only in a couple of very specific formats, you should be good

[18:37:33]

StevenR:

eddytv: I don't have the option of moving aerial cables, etc.

[18:37:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

StevenR: Your backend needs to be where your antenna/cable/whatever sources comes in.

[18:38:07]

StevenR:

J-e-f-f-A: exactly. The backend cannot go anywhere in my parents house :)

[18:38:24]

eddytv:

Well you could go the HDHomerun route then. It's just a box that you plug the antenna in to and it spits out as Ethernet packets

[18:38:40]

sphery:

unless you use an HDHR, which is basically a capture card with a very long cable (however long your ethernet cable is)

[18:38:41]

eddytv:

Then the backend can again go anywhere there is wired Ethernet.

[18:38:42]

StevenR:

right. so I need a homerun, or I need a pretty case for an i3.

[18:39:15]

sphery:

I will mention that if this is for the parents, you may find it easier for them to understand if it's all a single box

[18:39:19]

sphery:

like a cable company dvr

[18:40:16]

sphery:

so if you make a nice core i3/i5 system, throw in a couple 2 or 3tb hdds, and nvidia GPU, and a pci/pcie capture device they'll know how to turn it on and won't have to worry about architecture or anything

[18:40:51]

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[18:41:01]

sphery:

(where, actually, even one 2TB HDD would be a lot of storage compared to most DVRs--like 333 hrs of relatively-high-bitrate HDTV)

[18:41:14]

eddytv:

wagnerrp: so the front-end components you linked to earlier — you think that is a little better than something like a Zotac or a LOT better?

[18:41:30]

StevenR:

eddytv: it's alot better, with the right case

[18:41:39]

sphery:

IMHO, anything with an Atom is a bad design

[18:41:39]

StevenR:

(if pretty matters)

[18:41:50]

wagnerrp:

its only about twice as thick, the same other dimensions, idles around 20–25W (or 2W standby)

[18:42:02]

wagnerrp:

but most importantly, it has all the power you need to decode whatever content you want

[18:42:11]

sphery:

^^^ +1

[18:42:20]

sphery:

(or should I say, "this")

[18:42:22]

wagnerrp:

without having to risk your hardware decoder not being able to handle it

[18:42:27]

eddytv:

Well the ND22 uses a dual-core Celeron. I ask because I currently have two of them and am using them as front ends OK.

[18:42:48]

wagnerrp:

right, but that 1.2GHz celeron isnt much more powerful than an Atom

[18:43:04]

sphery:

ah, that's a culv

[18:43:10]

eddytv:

With the Zotac, I'm not able to do PIP, or play at 1.3X with some audio stuttering.

[18:43:13]

sphery:

Intel just admitted that culv was a failure

[18:43:18]

sphery:

now they're moving to "ultrabooks"

[18:43:47]

sphery:

(which is a new branding for the same ideas--but at least they're looking at using more powerful CPUs)

[18:44:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

I doubt that Celeron would handle decoding the 13Mbps H.264 1080i video that my HD-PVR generates. ;-)

[18:45:06]

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[18:45:07]

wagnerrp:

absolutely not

[18:45:15]

wagnerrp:

its about half as fast as it needs to be

[18:45:30]

eddytv:

But other than those things I've noticed (which are not features missed or required by viewers in my household), it's worked well. Just wondering if for my next front-end I go the "build your own" route if I'd get full-features and be able to do awesome de-interlacing, etc.

[18:45:37]

** StevenR likes the CULV CPU in this laptop **

[18:45:56]

** sphery can't stand watching some shows at < 1.75x **

[18:46:13]

StevenR:

it does well enough at a freeview frontend

[18:46:16]

StevenR:

*as a

[18:46:22]

wagnerrp:

eddytv: that is the one thing you lose not going nvidia

[18:46:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: hehehehehe... Bet you can't watch the Chipmunks at that speed!

[18:46:32]

wagnerrp:

you dont get the nvidia shader program deinterlacers

[18:46:59]

wagnerrp:

although to be honest, ive never actually had a card powerful enough to run them, to see what all the desire is

[18:47:03]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: heh, I tried it but the pitch correction made them sound like normal people talking... it just wasn't the same.

[18:47:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: ha!!!!

[18:47:55]

stuartm:

IMHO it's worth making sure whatever device you build is sufficiently future proofed, i.e. that it can handle the toughest HD encodings or is not compromised in terms of expandability so that if you go from using on tuner to two you need all new hardware

[18:50:04]

eddytv:

I guess maybe since all of my content comes from broadcaster-encoded OTA streams, I haven't really run into issues using the CULV-based Zotac.

[18:50:27]

stuartm:

that's even if you don't yet receive/watch HD, or you think right now you'll only ever need to record two channels at once, or ...

[18:50:57]

stuartm:

eddytv: in the US?

[18:51:06]

eddytv:

stuartm: yes

[18:51:40]

stuartm:

OTA HD is easy in the US, it's all low bitrate mpeg2

[18:51:46]

wagnerrp:

low-ish

[18:51:53]

wagnerrp:

its still ~15Mbps

[18:52:02]

wagnerrp:

which is right at about the limits of that celeron

[18:52:19]

StevenR:

stuartm: I can record 2 channels from each tuner (they have to be the same freeview MUX of course)

[18:52:40]

eddytv:

right... so maybe that's why I'm finding the Nvidia acceleration and the Zotac working OK

[18:53:07]

wagnerrp:

you can record up to five from each tuner

[18:53:12]

wagnerrp:

but two is the configured default

[18:53:14]

stuartm:

StevenR: actually you can record upto 4 channels from each mux

[18:53:24]

stuartm:

5? I would have sworn it was 4

[18:53:32]

wagnerrp:

five, last i checked

[18:53:52]

wagnerrp:

all it really is is a maximum value in the spinbox

[18:54:15]

stuartm:

well 4, or 5 is more than enough anyway, there's never that many good programs being broadcast at the same time

[18:54:46]

** StevenR nods (I left it at the default 2, because I've got two tuners and didn't want to devote the whole computer to myth) **

[18:54:49]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: right, the current max was chosen just to stop people being silly

[18:55:10]

StevenR:

stuartm: sometimes there's enough good TV that I use both tuners!

[18:55:47]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: well it was more because some tuner cards simply cannot handle that many streams coming out of the hardware PID fillter

[18:55:50]

stuartm:

StevenR: heh, there's not enough to use 2 x 4 tuners though ;)

[18:56:19]

stuartm:

my backends have three tuners, 2x Freeview, 1x Freesat with 4 virtual tuners configured on each

[18:56:49]

StevenR:

stuartm: true. I've never hit a situation that I'd need more tuned MUXes

[18:56:54]

stuartm:

a theoretical max of 12 current recordings, but I think the most it's ever seen is 5

[18:57:11]

stuartm:

s/current/concurrent/

[18:57:50]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: that's not the way I remember the decision being reached, but it was a long time ago now

[18:58:16]

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[18:58:52]

stuartm:

it's was more along the lines of "What do we think is a reasonable maximum?" "Five?" "Yeah, five sounds about right"

[18:59:06]

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[18:59:07]

jams:

stuartm- yep..was just in the process of typing that out

[18:59:07]

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[18:59:19]

wagnerrp:

ok, well the PID issue was the story i was told

[18:59:28]

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[18:59:30]

wagnerrp:

so it may very well be wrong

[19:00:01]

sphery:

plus testing revealing that the additional resources required for scheduling increased such that 5 or less was reasonable, but there was a much bigger jump in resources required at 6 (and bigger and bigger as it increased)

[19:00:22]

eddytv:

wagnerrp: in your front-end suggestion, why the Pentium instead of an i3?

[19:00:24]

sphery:

who was it on the -users list that increased the max value in DVB api

[19:00:34]

wagnerrp:

eddytv: cheaper and fast enough

[19:00:41]

stuartm:

Janne had tested it up into double digits without any problems

[19:00:50]

wagnerrp:

the 'pentium' is nothing but a rebranded i3 with the hyperthreading disabled

[19:00:58]

sphery:

it worked, but was much slower

[19:01:05]

eddytv:

wagnerrp: gotcha

[19:01:45]

StevenR:

wagnerrp: which "pentium" are you referring to?

[19:02:13]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116397

[19:02:30]

StevenR:

thanks

[19:02:33]

wagnerrp:

intel keeps that name around just for brand recognition

[19:02:39]

** StevenR nods **

[19:03:20]

wagnerrp:

the first 'i3' branded chip is 200MHz faster, and $30 more expensive

[19:03:34]

wagnerrp:

but identical other than hyperthreading

[19:04:32]

StevenR:

13 quid cheaper than my i3 cpu was

[19:06:31]

eddytv:

so if you wanted Nvidia's VPDAU de-interlacing, you could get something like this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163149 and use a (passively cooled) GT430 and it might not be too bad as a front-end in terms of noise because of the big 120mm fan...

[19:06:57]

wagnerrp:

but then youre stuck with a big box, harder to hide behind a tv

[19:07:16]

wagnerrp:

thats the shame of nvidia getting pushed out of the integrated graphics business

[19:07:25]

eddytv:

Yes, that's true about the size for sure

[19:08:00]

StevenR:

I'm not sure that would pass the Mother Test either :S

[19:09:49]

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[19:12:48]

eddytv:

StevenR: expensive, but nice looking IMHO: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112186

[19:15:12]

StevenR:

eddytv: yes, I'd just seen that one on a uk site :)

[19:16:30]

sphery:

FWIW, I go with cheap (which usually means big and ugly) and stick it in another room, with cables running to the TV/speakers. You could also put it in a cabinet or closet or ... Don't know if that's feasible with their home layout.

[19:16:37]

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[19:16:48]

sphery:

IMHO, no case is as beautiful as an invisible case

[19:18:15]

StevenR:

sphery: it's not, there are other constraints that make it unfeasible.

[19:18:38]

StevenR:

*bing*. we've already got the tuner :)

[19:19:12]

StevenR:

hmmm. I wonder how powerful that PC is... and how much power it draws

[19:21:40]

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[19:22:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Ah, you've got one of those clear acrylic cases, eh? ;-) Heheheheh...

[19:22:59]

StevenR:

hrrm. Is it possible for mythtv to know that a programme it's recording has moved, i.e. something before it overran, and thus it now needs to record at a later time ?

[19:23:55]

StevenR:

(the tv source is uk-freeview)

[19:24:58]

J-e-f-f-A:

StevenR: Only if your listings source is updated in time for the recording...

[19:25:17]

StevenR:

J-e-f-f-A: well... is there another listings source I could use?

[19:25:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

StevenR: I dunno, I'm here in the US. ;-)

[19:25:54]

StevenR:

like the over-air-EPG type thing that most TVs over here use

[19:26:46]

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[19:27:12]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: heh, ok, so actually, has to be an invisible case /and/ invisible components :)

[19:28:52]

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[19:29:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

My backend is neither invisible, nor quiet. ;-) It's a mini-monolith. ;-)

[19:30:08]

sphery:

yeah, mine is big and ugly and loud--but in a different room, so it's invisible

[19:31:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

StevenR: Sounds like you'd be using the EIT data (which is what the TV's use) – I'm not sure how well that works – but I'm sure there are many Freeview users here to help you with suggestions for listings. ;-)

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[20:04:15]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i dont know, i think an invisible case with visible components would be quite a conversation piece

[20:04:28]

wagnerrp:

computer hardware free floating next to your TV

[20:04:45]

iamlindoro:

and free floating point

[20:05:15]

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[20:07:23]

wagnerrp:

any idea what is causing the huge text? http://code.mythtv.org/trac/report/14

[20:07:37]

sphery:

a larger size of font?

[20:08:03]

iamlindoro:

really important bugs

[20:08:49]

wagnerrp:

its minor priority

[20:08:58]

sphery:

it's adding a style= with extra garbage

[20:09:16]

sphery:

most are style=";"... so why is that one adding new junk

[20:09:21]

wagnerrp:

plus its not even closed

[20:09:24]

wagnerrp:

it shouldnt even be in that report

[20:09:35]

iamlindoro:

presumably !important = minor

[20:09:35]

sphery:

yeah, it's not closed even

[20:09:46]

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[20:10:23]

sphery:

(CASE t.status WHEN 'assigned' THEN 'font-size: 18pt !important; font-weight: bold !important;' ELSE '' END)

[20:10:30]

sphery:

see that in the Copy Report

[20:11:00]

sphery:

so it's because it's assigned (but "closed"?)

[20:11:01]

wagnerrp:

plus there seems to be an quote mismatch

[20:11:11]

wagnerrp:

nevermind

[20:11:22]

wagnerrp:

the second ! looked like a quote

[20:12:50]

sphery:

so that's appearing because it was closed on that day, then re-opened

[20:12:58]

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[20:13:07]

sphery:

and it seems that the "use big font that breaks all formatting of the table" is the plan for that report

[20:14:04]

sphery:

what if you edit out the 18pt font in that report

[20:14:14]

sphery:

bold/important should be fine, right?

[20:15:42]

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[20:46:21]

wagnerrp:

sphery: around?

[20:47:52]

sphery:

eah

[20:48:46]

wagnerrp:

im looking into 9174, clients autoconfiguring over upnp, and then upgrading the database

[20:49:00]

wagnerrp:

im about to add version info to the ConnectionInfo block

[20:49:06]

wagnerrp:

what do we want?

[20:49:21]

wagnerrp:

protocol version? abi version? schema version? all of it?

[20:49:51]

sphery:

well, no backend can upgrade the database, anymore, except the master backend

[20:50:01]

sphery:

see comment:4

[20:50:07]

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[20:50:11]

sphery:

So, as I read it, all that's left of this ticket is checking whether there's a bug in determining whether a console is interactive on Mac OS X, and, if so, fixing it.

[20:50:35]

wagnerrp:

sure, but in general, you shouldnt be able to connect against a mismatched backend anyway

[20:50:41]

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[20:50:44]

sphery:

true

[20:50:48]

sphery:

but we can't, now

[20:50:52]

sphery:

because of the db schema check

[20:50:58]

sphery:

it will prevent the backend from running

[20:51:00]

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[20:51:16]

sphery:

it's definitely not a bad idea to have version info in the connection block

[20:51:31]

sphery:

so we could do that, too

[20:51:42]

sphery:

and then the ticket will be doubly fixed

[20:51:51]

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[20:52:04]

sphery:

(and triply if Nigel ever looks at the interactive shell on mac os x part :)

[20:53:17]

sphery:

as far as what we should include when connecting, proto version makes sense ... abi doesn't (since that's only for local plugins)... the schema version should be handled by the schema version check for our clients

[20:53:26]

sphery:

but I don't know about 3rd party clients

[20:53:29]

StevenR:

right. now I have a plan for dad. Thanks for the options folks :)

[20:53:37]

ThisNewGuy:

hey all – has anyone else noticed the occasionally going to the mythweb recording detail screen will cause mythfrontend to segfault?

[20:54:02]

wagnerrp:

sphery: actually, we send the ABI version in the upnp block

[20:54:40]

wagnerrp:

"Linux 2.6.39, UPnP/1.0, MythTV 0.25.20110722–1"

[20:54:44]

sphery:

ThisNewGuy: how could that be since mythweb doesn't talk to any frontends on that page (and, IIRC, only does so on the remote control page)

[20:55:09]

wagnerrp:

although parsing that at could be troublesome

[20:55:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh.. kind of useless for anyone other than plugins/clients using mythtv libs, but...

[20:55:44]

ThisNewGuy:

sphery: the recording detail screen gets a list of the front ends to apply playback of the recording

[20:56:03]

sphery:

proto version makes sense--and I suppose with the protoken, we don't have to worry about 3rd party clients using it to circumvent proto version check

[20:56:29]

sphery:

(unless they do they blind mapping of version to protoken with a map/file)

[20:56:47]

wagnerrp:

they can do that anyway

[20:56:53]

sphery:

ThisNewGuy: ah, I see... didn't know you could start playback from that page

[20:56:57]

ThisNewGuy:

it looks like it uses the php bindings which do a quick connect and then disconnect to ping the front end – my guess is if the disconnect deletes the sockets while the original message is using it then we get the segfault

[20:57:05]

wagnerrp:

if you fail proto version check, it tells you what version it speaks

[20:57:28]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, didn't know if we still planned to change that

[20:57:41]

wagnerrp:

i dont think it should be changed

[20:57:43]

sphery:

to prevent the lookup-based circumvention

[20:57:53]

wagnerrp:

ive got no problem with programs supporting multiple versions... if done properly

[20:58:10]

sphery:

yeah, even if we did, they'd probably just to the "count up from proto version X" approach

[20:58:45]

sphery:

I've no problems with other people destroying their own systems/data--as long as we don't have to clean up the mess

[20:59:23]

sphery:

speaking of which, a friend who uses mythtv was asking about the android app for mythtv... mythdroid? is it safe?

[21:00:00]

wagnerrp:

foobum writes it

[21:00:33]

sphery:

yeah, just wondered if it's doing bad things with proto or schema version

[21:00:37]

sphery:

or direct db editing or ...

[21:01:12]

wagnerrp:

as i recall, he has some form of lookup to properly handle multiple versions

[21:01:22]

wagnerrp:

although its written in java, thats more your thing

[21:01:22]

sphery:

cool

[21:01:52]

sphery:

heh, Java? No, it's written in Joggle

[21:02:02]

sphery:

thus the Oracle lawsuit :)

[21:02:20]

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[21:10:45]

wagnerrp:

wow... wolInfo was created jan 15, 2010

[21:10:52]

wagnerrp:

he was working on this thing for a /long/ time

[21:13:29]

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[21:14:38]

wagnerrp:

sphery: it doesnt seem like we store database version outside of dbcheck.cpp

[21:15:29]

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[21:21:42]

sphery:

wagnerrp: right--we've always just used gCoreContext->GetSetting("DBSchemaVer");

[21:22:12]

sphery:

in theory, it will never change once we've started the system... but if you start a new mythtv-setup while mythbackend is running, it could

[21:22:41]

sphery:

if you'd like to store it, we could put it in MythDB

[21:23:02]

sphery:

which opens up the possibility of detecting a schema version change while running

[21:23:40]

wagnerrp:

i was actually thinking of mythversion.h with protocol and binary version

[21:24:20]

sphery:

btw, thanks for bumping all these tickets... it's the easiest way for me to find ones that I remember seeing fixes for

[21:24:36]

wagnerrp:

heh

[21:24:44]

sphery:

that would work, too

[21:25:07]

sphery:

I was thinking of storing the one we saw in the db that schema wizard agreed was correct for us

[21:25:39]

sphery:

but just having the "requires this version" constant would be fine

[21:25:56]

sphery:

and you could then put it in --version output

[21:27:16]

sphery:

should be a straightforward change to go to a define in mythversion.h

[21:32:45]

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[21:40:30]

wagnerrp:

sphery: any reason why i might not be able to use the defines in the datacontract definition?

[21:40:42]

wagnerrp:

might the Qt stuff be breaking the preprocessor?

[21:44:52]

sphery:

not sure... what error are you getting?

[21:45:08]

wagnerrp:

nevermind, the library wasnt set up to include those paths

[21:45:13]

sphery:

ahh

[21:45:14]

wagnerrp:

so the #include itself was failing

[21:45:46]

sphery:

glad it's not some weird issue with the code generation stuff

[21:45:53]

wagnerrp:

rather than muddle linking further, im just going to put their definitions into the backend

[21:49:17]

sphery:

but since mythversion.h is libmythbase, it's the lowest level

[21:49:24]

sphery:

should be fine to include that, right?

[21:52:55]

Beirdo:

let's get hammered.

[21:53:27]

wagnerrp:

hammertime!

[21:53:45]

Beirdo:

too broke...too broke to quit.

[21:55:40]

wagnerrp:

http://jalopnik.com/5824750

[21:56:06]

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[21:56:36]

Beirdo:

niice

[22:01:48]

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[22:23:02]

james_:

hello

[22:25:47]

sphery:

anyone know how to get out of mythbrowser... esc and menu don't work

[22:25:58]

sphery:

I know there's a toggleinput, but it doesn't seem to do anything either

[22:27:10]

stuartm:

once angered it will never let you escape

[22:27:42]

jams:

quick..run some flash so it might crash

[22:28:05]

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[22:28:50]

sphery:

heh, I'm assuming it's an issue with the user--since it seems some mdean guy fixed the toggleinput key's binding at http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7359

[22:41:30]

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[22:54:21]

iamlindoro:

Heh, Ohloh says I've committed code in languages I've never even heard of

[22:54:50]

stuartm:

libmythbluray?

[22:57:28]

sphery:

guhhh... style is the hardest... I need a reloadkeys function in mythmainwindow (which starts all functions with caps), mythfrontend (which starts all functions with lower), and TV (which starts all functions with caps)...

[22:57:48]

sphery:

I'm thinking of just making it ReloadKeys() in all 3 and ignoring "local" style for mythfrontend's main

[22:58:17]

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[23:00:41]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: I think that explains the autoconf, perhaps, but I have no idea what "IDL/PV-WAVE/GDL" is

[23:00:47]

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[23:00:48]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: the IDL/PV-WAVE/GDL stuff?

[23:00:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah... ive got some of that too

[23:02:00]

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[23:10:07]

stuartm:

look at number three in the greatest experience list – http://www.ohloh.net/languages/76

[23:10:44]

iamlindoro:

heh, we should ask him wtf it is

[23:11:08]

stuartm:

http://gnudatalanguage.sourceforge.net/

[23:11:35]

stuartm:

pretty sure that's a false positive, probably on the QT project files

[23:11:59]

stuartm:

or maybe something in configure

[23:13:13]

stuartm:

apparently my experience with it goes back 9 months, I can't remember what I started working on 9 months ago

[23:16:47]

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[23:17:34]

wagnerrp:

its not that you started 9 months ago

[23:17:50]

wagnerrp:

there have been 9 months during which you have had a commit containing GDL

[23:18:38]

wagnerrp:

i make some makefile changes at the beginning of last year

[23:18:44]

wagnerrp:

but i only have 7 months of experience listed

[23:21:43]

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[23:25:59]

iamlindoro:

New MCE ermote is kinda slick, minus the Xbox logo: http://hd.engadget.com/2011/07/26/microsofts- . . . -media-cente

[23:29:02]

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[23:33:38]

stuartm:

fingerprint magnet

[23:36:36]

iamlindoro:

I'm not sure it's as shiny as the retouched press shots would have one believe

[23:38:29]

sphery:

well, not since you got your greasy mits on it

[23:39:06]

iamlindoro:

I prefer to think of them as "french-fry-enabled"

[23:41:08]

sphery:

heh, better than cheeto-crusted

[23:41:38]

sphery:

(somehow I doubt you're much into either french fries or cheetos--what with the living healthy thing and all)

[23:42:22]

iamlindoro:

Hey, I train to eat, not vice versa ;)

[23:42:58]

sphery:

that's the way to do it

[23:47:38]

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