| Friday, July 22nd, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:21:38] | ThisNewGuy: | iamlindoro: do you know if anyone is working on the mythweb piece of the VideoLookup? |
| [00:22:09] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: I doubt anyone is |
| [00:22:29] | ThisNewGuy: | do you have a vision for how it should work? |
| [00:22:51] | ThisNewGuy: | thanks for that patch today btw |
| [00:24:33] | iamlindoro: | No vision, I don't expect that anything of that magnitude will be anything I will feel comfortable committing, you might ask kormoc or xris about how they see it working |
| [00:25:49] | kormoc: | Mythweb's entire video module desperately needs an update, so I'm open to anything that's cleanly coded and has a good ui |
| [00:25:56] | xris: | iamlindoro: how much work would it be to add a call to look up and process any data that doesn't require interaction? |
| [00:26:32] | iamlindoro: | xris: can you be more specific about what you mean? I don't follow what you're asking, exactly |
| [00:26:34] | xris: | other than that, anything that follows the interface of the old imdb.pl script would work |
| [00:26:51] | kormoc: | xris, there are proto calls to do all that |
| [00:26:52] | iamlindoro: | kormoc: The lookups are usable for both video and recordings, ThisNewGuy is asking about adding it for recording rules |
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| [00:26:58] | kormoc: | ahh |
| [00:27:02] | xris: | ahh |
| [00:27:04] | kormoc: | I misunderstood, sorry |
| [00:27:06] | xris: | same |
| [00:27:17] | xris: | doesn't the backend do that automatically? |
| [00:27:33] | iamlindoro: | The BE/recorder handles the job up updating individual recordings |
| [00:28:07] | iamlindoro: | When configuring a rule, the FE performs a lookup to set the inetref (and potentially, season and episode info) for the recording rule for the recordings to inherit |
| [00:28:44] | ThisNewGuy: | I create most of my new rules in mythweb – so I'd love to be able to do the same as the fe wrt metadata |
| [00:28:48] | iamlindoro: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Enhancing_Recordin . . . adata_Lookup for how it is done in the FE |
| [00:29:08] | xris: | ah. yeah. I just sort of assumed that'd all be automatic on the backend |
| [00:29:30] | iamlindoro: | You can't automate it entirely |
| [00:29:43] | iamlindoro: | Since you can't perform perfect matching |
| [00:30:00] | iamlindoro: | ie, a search for "The Office" returns two dozen results |
| [00:30:08] | iamlindoro: | you ahve to tell the recording rule which "The Office" you mean |
| [00:30:56] | iamlindoro: | And yes, the backend will still attempt to matchin recordings up with their season, episode, and inetref automatically |
| [00:31:07] | xris: | so the frontend does all of that logic itself, rather than relying on a lookup api? |
| [00:31:14] | iamlindoro: | even without a proper setup in the rule-- but to be sure, you need to do so yourself |
| [00:31:28] | iamlindoro: | The Lookup API and the frontend hook into the same classes |
| [00:32:04] | iamlindoro: | The frontend asks the metadata classes for matches based on the the information it has (it provides a programinfo) and the metadata classes return one or more possible matches |
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| [00:32:25] | iamlindoro: | if one match, you are done-- if multiple matches, you select the one you want and fire that object back into the metadata classes to get a full record |
| [00:34:48] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: So, based on this, it sounds like you can feel free to implement it as you like since you've followed along and understand how the logic works-- something analogous to how the FE does it, since you're familiar with that, is probably best/easiest, and the API is designed to be able to produce something like that |
| [00:36:45] | ThisNewGuy: | k – cool – I'll try to put something together this weekend |
| [00:37:19] | xris: | ThisNewGuy: mythweb is semi-abandoned. kormoc and I both got tied up into other projects. |
| [00:37:30] | ** xris curses autocorrect in the new osx ** | |
| [00:38:33] | ThisNewGuy: | xris: I'm a huge fan of mythweb – I'm happy to do anything I can to help |
| [00:38:35] | xris: | heck, I've been toying around with the idea of rewriting it in python/pyramid so that we could spread the load more evenly with the python bindings |
| [00:39:12] | xris: | but I don't have time for that either. SD and my kid rate higher. and kormoc's new media glue project sounds more fun to him (and me, fwiw) |
| [00:39:33] | wagnerrp: | xris: speaking of python, you ever use pexpect? |
| [00:39:36] | ThisNewGuy: | media glue? |
| [00:40:26] | ThisNewGuy: | iamlindoro: I was thinking for the detail screen it might be nice to have a link to the specific ttvdb/tmdb show or episode – is it possible to get that information from the API? |
| [00:40:47] | xris: | wagnerrp: nope |
| [00:41:11] | xris: | ThisNewGuy: sort of a way to tie together all of the media-related ID values.. imdb, tvdb, etc. |
| [00:41:11] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: does the new upnp stuff stream content from remote storage groups? |
| [00:41:18] | xris: | to help with the meta data lookup apps |
| [00:41:39] | Beirdo: | I think so |
| [00:43:18] | ** xris goes home ** | |
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| [01:03:04] | wagnerrp: | ok! ive got my build script automatically connecting to iscsi, mounting all the assorted iscsi images and nfs shares, chrooting into the build sandbox, writing new ebuilds for trunk, updating world, and closing it all back down |
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| [01:04:08] | wagnerrp: | now i just need to tie it all into the server to cycle the boot images, and shut down all the boxes using it |
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| [01:06:56] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: That is the HomePage return |
| [01:07:46] | sphery: | iamlindoro: is using ShowOkPopup() allowed/the right way for just saying, "Couldn't upgrade database to new schema, exiting." before exiting the frontend? |
| [01:07:58] | iamlindoro: | sphery: Yes, IMO |
| [01:08:12] | sphery: | thx... I always fear I'm going to add more non-mythui code |
| [01:08:28] | sphery: | or add mythui code the wrong way |
| [01:09:09] | iamlindoro: | Think that's a pretty ok way to do it, not sure what other way would be better :) |
| [01:09:16] | sphery: | hmmm... doesn't seem to wait on me, so I'll have to handle events? |
| [01:09:42] | iamlindoro: | Dunno, maybe the event loop isn't running then? |
| [01:10:14] | iamlindoro: | it's all a little murky to me when the whole frontend isn't up and running yet |
| [01:10:40] | sphery: | ah, yeah, that may be it--which is why my patch for the "upgrading db" popup is on hold |
| [01:10:58] | sphery: | yep, that's definitely it |
| [01:11:26] | iamlindoro: | yeah |
| [01:11:28] | sphery: | mythtv/mythtv-add_popup_for_wrong_db_version.patch -> back burner |
| [01:11:51] | sphery: | thanks for saving me an hour of trying to figure that one out (again) |
| [01:12:10] | sphery: | so, what patch do you want me to do for you with the hour you saved me? |
| [01:12:16] | sphery: | let me guess, recordedfile schema conversion |
| [01:13:12] | iamlindoro: | If you insist ;) |
| [01:13:21] | sphery: | wondering if it might be work making a generic pre-event-loop dialog class to use for this and the db update please wait and such |
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| [01:14:00] | iamlindoro: | you could always just create the OK popup manually with a MythConfirmation dialog, attach it to a QEventLoop, and run it? |
| [01:14:07] | iamlindoro: | (possibly?) |
| [01:14:20] | sphery: | yeah, that's what I was starting for the db upgrade please wait |
| [01:14:40] | sphery: | I'll take a look at it, also considering this one, and see if it makes sense to try to do something reusable |
| [01:15:03] | sphery: | (and, if designed right, might even be able to run the event loop for the language selection and backend selection prompts, too) |
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| [01:15:20] | iamlindoro: | I don't think there's a lot of code there to make reusable, you just make the Eventloop the parent of the window when you init it |
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| [01:15:41] | sphery: | though I could get this popup done very quickly... main holdup on the upgrading one is that I need to completely redesign schema upgrade wizard to be event-drivent |
| [01:15:55] | sphery: | yeah, you're probably right |
| [01:16:19] | iamlindoro: | all the MythScreenTypes are QObject derived, IIRC, which means they all take a parent argument in the constructor |
| [01:16:20] | sphery: | the more I think about it, the more I realize that there wasn't much to that--it was just refactoring the schema upgrade wizard that was a challenge |
| [01:16:44] | sphery: | ok, so maybe I'll do that tonight |
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| [01:16:57] | sphery: | (the can't upgrade schema, please run mythtv-setup popup) |
| [01:17:09] | sphery: | one more quick patch first, though |
| [01:17:09] | ThisNewGuy: | iamlindoro: thanks! |
| [01:17:57] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: np |
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| [01:20:56] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: If I could caution you in one way, it would be to not be *too* overzealous in the number of lookups you do... Have to be patient in terms of the number you run so that you don't exhaust the backend web server thread pool |
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| [01:24:32] | iamlindoro: | So as tempting as it would be to fire off lookup after lookup after lookup, you probably want to think carefully about how few you can get away with-- make *only* run one when someone selects a program to set up a recording rule... or maybe add a second dropdown below "advanced" in the recording rule screen that is always collapsed by default, and opening it triggers the lookup, or something |
| [01:25:12] | iamlindoro: | be creative, but be creative in furtherance of not overloading the BE :) |
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| [01:26:21] | k-man: | what pastebin for images do you guys use? |
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| [01:34:48] | ThisNewGuy: | iamlindoro: thanks for the advice – I was thinking of having a link next to the inetref field on the recording page and only doing a lookup if the user clicks the link; if it's one result it just populates the field, if it's multiple then it pops up a dialog and lets the user choose one (and then makes the follow up lookup); on the detail (read-only) page it would do a look up for the link once the page loads |
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| [01:37:09] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: That sounds basically perfect |
| [01:38:34] | iamlindoro: | And, of course, given the API will function in both XML and JSON mode, the preference is for JSON |
| [01:38:50] | iamlindoro: | if you had no preference one way or the other, that is |
| [01:40:34] | sphery: | heh, when I started up an event loop, I find that there's already a "schema is too old, please run mythtv-setup" popup--it just never gets shown because of the lack of event loop |
| [01:40:43] | ThisNewGuy: | iamlindoro: cool! – I looked into that today – it looks like if I pass Accept: application/json in the header then I should get JSON back which should be easy to work with |
| [01:40:51] | sphery: | so maybe I just need to finish the db schema upgrade wizard change |
| [01:40:53] | iamlindoro: | ThisNewGuy: yep, exactly |
| [01:41:06] | iamlindoro: | sphery: heh |
| [01:42:39] | ThisNewGuy: | The only thing I was thinking is that the page would never contact the backend directly, it should contact the mythweb application which would call the backend and then pass back the result (maybe formatted) to the page |
| [01:43:21] | iamlindoro: | I don't have an opinion on that, not being a web dev I can't say which would be preferable |
| [01:44:27] | sphery: | guess I need to actually get the rsyslog.conf done that I promised *buntu packagers |
| [01:44:41] | iamlindoro: | !trout sphery ADD |
| [01:44:41] | ** MythLogBot slaps sphery with a ADD trout on behalf of iamlindoro... ** | |
| [01:44:59] | iamlindoro: | GIVE ME MY SCHEMA |
| [01:45:03] | sphery: | heh |
| [01:45:16] | iamlindoro: | So that I can give these nice people taglines for their recorded movies |
| [01:45:29] | sphery: | actually, I'd say there's a lot of order in my attention deficit |
| [01:45:52] | sphery: | I'm jumping from patch to patch and topic to topic based on specific relationships |
| [01:46:02] | sphery: | so don't call it disorderly |
| [01:46:26] | iamlindoro: | Just an apparent deficit in our relationship |
| [01:46:40] | sphery: | couldn't you just hard-code a tagline, "The best movie of the year!" for all the movies? |
| [01:47:19] | wagnerrp: | is that like how every game releases a game of the year edition? |
| [01:47:28] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [01:47:44] | wagnerrp: | Minesweeper GOTY edition |
| [01:47:56] | sphery: | ooh, do you get all the DLC's with that one? |
| [01:48:13] | wagnerrp: | and limpet mines |
| [01:48:21] | sphery: | I'm still working my way through Minesweeper: Operation Anchor |
| [01:48:28] | iamlindoro: | landmine, sea mine, limpet mine, and of course, the claymore expansion |
| [01:48:55] | iamlindoro: | Damn, missed an opportunity... make that Claymore Campaign |
| [01:49:06] | sphery: | what about bounding Betsys |
| [01:49:20] | sphery: | er, Bouncing Betsys |
| [01:49:35] | wagnerrp: | bouncing bettys... werent those bombs? |
| [01:49:47] | sphery: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-mine |
| [01:49:57] | sphery: | and it keeps your e-mail secure, too |
| [01:50:26] | sphery: | (bad joke about S/MIME) |
| [01:51:14] | sphery: | so, the S-mine page calls them "Bouncing Betty", but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_mine says, "S-mine, Germany – nicknamed the Bouncing Betty by most Allied troops and nicknamed the "Jumping Jack" by Australian and New Zealand soldiers." |
| [01:51:16] | wagnerrp: | i was thinking of the bouncing depth charges used to take out dams |
| [01:51:27] | sphery: | er, which is also betty... /me can't read |
| [01:51:38] | sphery: | oooh, what were those called |
| [01:52:00] | wagnerrp: | i dont see a nickname |
| [01:52:15] | sphery: | yeah, seems to just be "bouncing bombs" (or dam busters) |
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| [01:56:02] | wagnerrp: | apparently people are writing applications for use with hulu |
| [01:56:11] | wagnerrp: | the hulu player is proxied through the application |
| [01:56:21] | wagnerrp: | which in turn detects when the hulu player is accessing an ad |
| [01:56:26] | wagnerrp: | and mutes the system audio |
| [01:56:37] | iamlindoro: | what an ugly hack |
| [01:59:00] | sphery: | yeah, and what a waste |
| [01:59:44] | wagnerrp: | last time i used hulu (like two years ago) you got maybe three 30 second ads per show |
| [01:59:50] | sphery: | right |
| [02:00:02] | sphery: | seems like a lot of work to save hitting the mute button 6 times |
| [02:00:09] | sphery: | per hour |
| [02:04:21] | sphery: | (or just listening to the commercial, even) |
| [02:04:47] | sphery: | wonder how long until someone writes an app that detects the commercial, then inserts their own commercial, instead |
| [02:06:59] | kormoc: | no one would ever think that's a good idea |
| [02:12:26] | sphery: | heh, there were 3 or 4 people on the mythtv lists who asked for that |
| [02:12:43] | sphery: | (though I think these were so some companies could do things that were probably illegal in most areas of the world) |
| [02:13:44] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: theres a guy on the google contractors list asking for just that |
| [02:13:59] | sphery: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/432831#432831 , http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/255467#255467 |
| [02:14:12] | sphery: | one in 2010 and the 2nd in 2007 |
| [02:15:32] | wagnerrp: | "commercial flagging does not work in real time" |
| [02:15:46] | wagnerrp: | eh? even back in 2007, real time flagging was not difficult |
| [02:16:29] | sphery: | well, it's always been "near-real-time" because logo detection requires that we wait for 8min of the show before we can "start" |
| [02:16:35] | wagnerrp: | yeah, the Large Scale Disruptive Project guy |
| [02:16:40] | wagnerrp: | Marc Feldman |
| [02:17:30] | sphery: | heh, we never saw anything come of that, yet, have we? |
| [02:18:01] | sphery: | was he the "fish tank in my living room to cool my mega-mythtv box" guy? |
| [02:18:14] | wagnerrp: | several years of hitting the various channels, hundreds of thousands of invested venture capital, and yet nothing |
| [02:18:41] | wagnerrp: | no, the guy who wanted to make an ad funded version of mythtv |
| [02:18:55] | sphery: | oh, yeah |
| [02:18:55] | wagnerrp: | replace broadcast ads with his own, use that to offset hardware cost |
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| [02:19:07] | lwizardl: | hey guys |
| [02:19:43] | lwizardl: | what kind of antenna aplitter/amp distribution box would you guys recommend ? |
| [02:19:48] | sphery: | fish tank guy was http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/389453#389453 (and pics still work)... I just imagine that water pouring out all over the nice electronics |
| [02:20:35] | iamlindoro: | ugh, that guy |
| [02:20:50] | iamlindoro: | with the I WILL HAVE THE GREATEST MYTH BOX EVER MADE |
| [02:20:57] | wagnerrp: | are there actually fish in there? |
| [02:20:58] | iamlindoro: | that was mdoest even at that time |
| [02:21:28] | sphery: | no, just a huge tank of water in his entertainment center |
| [02:21:31] | iamlindoro: | er modest |
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| [02:21:52] | lwizardl: | lol that just sounds like a very bad idea |
| [02:21:57] | sphery: | here's Marc's first post: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/348486#348486 |
| [02:22:16] | wagnerrp: | some parts are still secret as they have never been done before and i want to be the first |
| [02:22:18] | wagnerrp: | huh? |
| [02:22:27] | sphery: | lwizardl: I have an amp next to my antenna, then a 4-way splitter next to my 4 capture cards |
| [02:22:37] | sphery: | but I doubt I did it right |
| [02:22:44] | sphery: | just got a cheapo amp |
| [02:22:56] | wagnerrp: | did he ever say what the 'secret sauce' would be? |
| [02:23:18] | iamlindoro: | running water and flush toilets |
| [02:23:25] | iamlindoro: | though given the case, running water is possible |
| [02:23:57] | wagnerrp: | i mean even running that giant water tank is nothing new |
| [02:24:14] | lwizardl: | sphery, yeah I am looking to get a better Antenna soon the one I bought seems not to work for my area all that great even after antennaweb help. but i was looking to do a full house run from the antenna |
| [02:25:01] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I don't remember any details on the secret... He doesn't have that many posts after that thread (only 2 pages of http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . er%27s+posts ) |
| [02:25:52] | sphery: | wagnerrp: closest to "the secret" seem to be http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/402911#402911 |
| [02:27:02] | sphery: | then again his "most advanced MythTV system" post was in the "How to record everything all the time ?" thread, so not really any more info than that provided |
| [02:32:59] | k-man: | so i've been hacking away at the mythcenter theme – but some text fields seem so wide, its hard to handle http://flip.dyndns.org/images/myth-screenshot . . . 2-05.300.png |
| [02:33:19] | k-man: | should I keep making that box wider to fit that text? |
| [02:33:32] | k-man: | any ideas how I might handle text that is so wide? |
| [02:34:08] | k-man: | maybe I should left align all the selection boxes and buttons rather than center them |
| [02:35:30] | wagnerrp: | smaller font? |
| [02:37:44] | sphery: | different theme? |
| [02:37:50] | sphery: | *evil grin* |
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| [02:38:54] | wagnerrp: | silly sphery, mythcenter isnt a real theme |
| [02:40:36] | k-man: | is there some way to put the full text in a smaller font size somewhere else? like some kind of help text for the item or something? |
| [02:41:08] | ThisNewGuy: | hey all does this error: "unable to enumerate USB device on port 2" mean that my HD-PVR is dead? |
| [02:41:19] | [R]: | ThisNewGuy: no, it means usb sucks |
| [02:41:29] | sphery: | unplug/replug? |
| [02:41:30] | [R]: | turn off your computer, turn off the hdpvr, and try again |
| [02:41:35] | sphery: | or that |
| [02:41:40] | ThisNewGuy: | k |
| [02:41:40] | sphery: | (or both :) |
| [02:42:10] | sphery: | I'm still hoping USB3 solves these types of issues since it's a non-polling design |
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| [02:42:59] | sphery: | btw, [R] did you see https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/6e203ecfd |
| [02:43:03] | wagnerrp: | plus its hardware driven, not software |
| [02:43:13] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:43:36] | [R]: | sphery: you know, i dont evfen remember why i wanted that |
| [02:44:07] | sphery: | of course, Intel seems to be trying to make sure it goes nowhere now that Intel isn't 100% in control of USB, so they're pushing Light Peak, er, Thunderbolt, instead |
| [02:45:12] | [R]: | its hilarous that the calbes are so expensive |
| [02:45:22] | k-man: | didn't someone make a kit (beirdo maybe?) to power cycle the HDPVR via usb? or something? |
| [02:45:30] | sphery: | someone took them apart and found that they have some serious electronics in them |
| [02:46:00] | [R]: | yeah, its an "active" cable vs a "passive" cable |
| [02:46:33] | ThisNewGuy: | now I get a different error: "connect-debounce failed, port 2 disabled" |
| [02:46:56] | sphery: | ifixit... http://www.ifixit.com/blog/blog/2011/06/29/wh . . . htning-fast/ |
| [02:47:56] | wagnerrp: | yeah, now why they have to be an active cable... who knows |
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| [02:48:29] | sphery: | um, everyone knows that active cables are always better than passive cables |
| [02:48:38] | sphery: | just like digital is always better than analog |
| [02:48:43] | sphery: | and 1:1 is always better than not |
| [02:48:50] | wagnerrp: | active cables are better when you have something halfway down the line to clean it up |
| [02:49:08] | wagnerrp: | when the 'active' bits are in the plug, the 'active' bits could just as well be on the board in the computer |
| [02:49:30] | k-man: | nice patch sphery |
| [02:49:57] | sphery: | but then you'd have to pay $50 extra for each component--and who wants to pay $52 for a 2GB Thunderbolt flash drive |
| [02:50:01] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:50:14] | [R]: | but you can reuse it |
| [02:50:16] | sphery: | (I'm just joking about all the above "always betters", btw) |
| [02:50:18] | [R]: | with multipel devices |
| [02:50:43] | k-man: | do you think thunderbolt devices will come with a cable when you buy them usually? |
| [02:50:54] | wagnerrp: | sphery: the active cables have active bits on both ends? |
| [02:50:55] | sphery: | I just realized why I don't have the logs from when my system was down and I logged in as sfeary... because my system was down and I logged in as sfeary |
| [02:51:04] | [R]: | k-man: i think theres only 1 so far? and it doesnt |
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| [02:51:09] | [R]: | aparently apple is shipping stuff with them |
| [02:51:13] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, they claim that the chips know the cable specifications very well and are optimized for that cable |
| [02:51:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp: actually these do... 12 chips total split between 2 sides of the cables |
| [02:51:47] | sphery: | I still like USB3--which still has cheap cables |
| [02:51:54] | sphery: | and DisplayPort for display |
| [02:52:05] | kormoc: | so using different wires or better/worse shielding, the cable just knows and handles it to the best it can |
| [02:52:16] | kormoc: | sphery, I have to say, I do like the concept of one cable to rule them all |
| [02:52:24] | sphery: | there is that |
| [02:52:34] | sphery: | but wasn't that how Intel billed USB? |
| [02:52:40] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: so they hard code line optimizations in at the factory... why? |
| [02:52:44] | kormoc: | yes, but it just isn't high enough bandwidth |
| [02:52:54] | sphery: | and in a couple of years... |
| [02:53:00] | kormoc: | sphery, true enough |
| [02:53:01] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, no idea |
| [02:53:06] | wagnerrp: | for $50, you could stuff enough electronics in there to dynamically optimize for each cable at time of connection |
| [02:53:17] | sphery: | then again, who would ever need more than 640k? |
| [02:53:21] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, but it also means you can go optical or whatnot |
| [02:53:23] | sphery: | :) |
| [02:53:35] | kormoc: | sphery, to be fair, we're really slow compared to the (claimed) max |
| [02:53:49] | sphery: | yeah, Thunderbolt and Light Peak seem to be basically the same--just differing by the cables used |
| [02:53:57] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: but that would only be worthwhile if you want to go very long distance |
| [02:54:04] | wagnerrp: | because the port itself is only limited to 10mbps |
| [02:54:06] | wagnerrp: | gbps |
| [02:54:07] | sphery: | so I have a feeling we'll see more light cables once the price comes down |
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| [02:54:18] | wagnerrp: | and if thats what theyre going for, why not use something like the GBIC modules |
| [02:54:21] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, by very long you mean over 3 meters |
| [02:54:26] | ** kormoc shrugs ** | |
| [02:54:35] | wagnerrp: | the copper cables are only 3m long? |
| [02:54:41] | sphery: | kormoc: did you see apple's new Thunderbold display – http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/20App . . . Display.html |
| [02:54:43] | wagnerrp: | i didnt realize thats all the longer they could push it |
| [02:54:58] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, for copper, aye |
| [02:55:06] | ThisNewGuy: | hey all – I tried restarting everything – does anyone know if "connect-debounce failed" means bad hardware? |
| [02:55:10] | kormoc: | sphery, yes? It fits into my master plan nicely |
| [02:55:12] | sphery: | a single cable from the display to the macbook air... carries power + thunderbolt |
| [02:55:33] | sphery: | and thunderbolt is used for the display signal + multiple (5+?) usb ports + ... |
| [02:55:35] | kormoc: | sphery, I'm going to sell my mac pro and macbook pro and get a new beefier macbook pro and that display |
| [02:55:42] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: but thats pathetic, 10gbe can do much better than that |
| [02:55:49] | wagnerrp: | and is just as fast |
| [02:55:50] | sphery: | also, did you notice the new Apple Mac Mini is AMD-based graphics... :( |
| [02:55:56] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, yeah, I know |
| [02:56:05] | kormoc: | sphery, yeah :( they went all amd now |
| [02:56:13] | kormoc: | well, intel or amd |
| [02:56:18] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:56:27] | sphery: | too bad--though not unexpected |
| [02:56:50] | sphery: | seems that with nvidia out of the chipset business, it's too expensive to go with nvidia graphics |
| [02:57:09] | wagnerrp: | and it looks like 10gbe is dropping down close to $120/port |
| [02:57:23] | sphery: | the down side of that thunderbolt display is that it's basically the same cost as a macbook air |
| [02:57:43] | sphery: | $999 for each |
| [02:57:56] | kormoc: | Yeah |
| [02:57:59] | wagnerrp: | sphery: and display port can do the same, on longer cables, for lower cost |
| [02:58:03] | kormoc: | it's a lot for simplicity |
| [02:58:18] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, no? it can't do anything other then gfx |
| [02:58:18] | [R]: | whats the point of thunderbolt display? |
| [02:58:20] | sphery: | can displayport do non-display stuff? |
| [02:58:36] | sphery: | [R]: one cable carries everything--graphics, multiple usb connections, ... |
| [02:58:42] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: i know it does audio, i thought it could run usb and ethernet |
| [02:58:42] | kormoc: | [R], 6 monitors, 36 usb ports, 6 firewire ports, one cable |
| [02:58:46] | sphery: | and firewire |
| [02:58:48] | [R]: | wwtf |
| [02:58:56] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, can it do audio? I haven't heard that |
| [02:59:03] | sphery: | and gige |
| [02:59:16] | sphery: | i know displayport does audio |
| [02:59:20] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, thunderbolt on the macs are a physical mini display port port |
| [02:59:37] | sphery: | it's basically a newer-spec HDMI with some of the patent-encumbered technologies removed |
| [02:59:44] | sphery: | so you pay less to license it |
| [02:59:46] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, the mini-dp to hdmi adapter I got doesn't support audio |
| [03:00:04] | sphery: | removed = re-implemented with non-patent-encumbered implementations |
| [03:00:06] | kormoc: | could just be a cheap adapter tho |
| [03:00:12] | wagnerrp: | 8-channel audio up to 24-bit 192kHz, up to 63 audio and video streams (bandwith allowing) |
| [03:00:19] | kormoc: | huh |
| [03:00:33] | wagnerrp: | a 720Mbps bidirectional aux channel |
| [03:00:55] | sphery: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort ... "High-speed auxiliary channel for DDC, EDID, MCCS, DPMS, HDCP, adapter identification etc. traffic. Can be used for transmitting bi-directional USB, touch-panel data, CEC, etc." |
| [03:01:14] | sphery: | HDMI is evil patent-encumbered tech. |
| [03:01:32] | sphery: | DisplayPort is a lesser-of-two-evils patent-encumbered tech. |
| [03:02:20] | kormoc: | ahh, my laptop is a generation too old for mini-dp audio |
| [03:03:07] | sphery: | ok, so current Thunderbolt is 10Gbps with 100Gbps expected over the next decade. DisplayPort is 1.62, 2.7, or 5.4Gbps/lane with 1, 2, or 4 lanes, meaning 5.184, 8.64, or 17.28Gpbs |
| [03:03:32] | sphery: | but only 1Mbps or 720Mbps for the aux channel |
| [03:04:00] | wagnerrp: | seems newegg already carries some thunderbolt stuff... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0190003PI8 |
| [03:04:01] | sphery: | USB3 is 5Gbps |
| [03:04:42] | sphery: | I do like the idea of Thunderbolt... Just don't like that it seems to be Intel's trying to replace USB now that they don't control USB |
| [03:05:11] | sphery: | heh, those thunderbolt items must have fewer chips at those prices |
| [03:05:31] | sphery: | though they do look to be active, not passive |
| [03:05:46] | kormoc: | sphery, ooh, that's per direction (thunderbolt speeds) |
| [03:05:54] | kormoc: | DP is unidirectional? |
| [03:06:00] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [03:06:02] | sphery: | ah, wow |
| [03:06:16] | wagnerrp: | but its only 10Gbps bidirectional |
| [03:06:22] | kormoc: | (for now) |
| [03:06:28] | wagnerrp: | meaning roughly the same total throughput |
| [03:06:37] | wagnerrp: | an extra 2Gbps over DP |
| [03:06:48] | kormoc: | the spec goes to 100 Gbps |
| [03:06:49] | tgm4883: | scumbad Intel. Calls it "Universal Serial Bus", makes many different connectors for it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Usb_connectors.JPG |
| [03:06:56] | kormoc: | which is a fair bump |
| [03:06:58] | wagnerrp: | but the current hardware only does 10 |
| [03:07:10] | kormoc: | sure |
| [03:07:23] | kormoc: | but it's not going to sit there forever at that speed |
| [03:07:33] | [R]: | tgm4883: so? its still the same bus |
| [03:08:25] | Beirdo: | OK, time to ... watch TV, yeah, that's it |
| [03:08:35] | sphery: | tgm4883: not to mention the whole, USB->FullSpeed USB->HighSpeed USB->SuperSpeed USB naming idiocy |
| [03:09:06] | [R]: | its still the same bus... |
| [03:09:11] | sphery: | kind of like calling it New Technology File System |
| [03:09:13] | Beirdo: | how about UberSpeed? |
| [03:09:14] | tgm4883: | [R], so? |
| [03:09:24] | [R]: | its universal |
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| [03:09:53] | tgm4883: | Don't advertise meaningless crap to a consumer (to a consumer, that part is meaningless) |
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| [03:10:41] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:10:49] | [R]: | everythign is meaningless |
| [03:11:01] | Beirdo: | that's what she said. |
| [03:11:05] | sphery: | tgm4883: did you see http://www.xkcd.com/927/ (specifically the mouseover) |
| [03:11:26] | [R]: | Beirdo: i dont quite get that one |
| [03:11:36] | tgm4883: | sphery, heh I had seen the comic, but not the mouseover. Nice |
| [03:11:50] | sphery: | [R]: if I were more cultured, I'd say you sound like <insert philosopher name> |
| [03:11:58] | Beirdo: | [R]: lucky you. Try living somewhere where depression is more common |
| [03:12:11] | tgm4883: | [R], making it a single connector might have actually been better for the consumer |
| [03:12:24] | [R]: | tgm4883: but then you woudl'nt have been able ot have usb on your cell phone |
| [03:12:30] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: thats what you get for growing up so far north, where there are times of the year the sun never rises |
| [03:12:33] | tgm4883: | [R], so? |
| [03:12:46] | [R]: | tgm4883: then cell phones would still have proprietary connetcors |
| [03:12:48] | [R]: | that isn't good |
| [03:12:51] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: yeah, I guess so... although I'm further north now :) |
| [03:13:13] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: except USB 3 has more pins... 5 more IIRC... they just aren't used for USB 2 or 1.1/1 connectivity. ;-) |
| [03:13:21] | sphery: | yeah, and when some companies (yeah, I'm looking at you, Motorola) do really bad things like make chargers that use standard USB conectors but put out non-standard voltages that can fry other equipment, it really makes the universality of it come into question |
| [03:13:34] | tgm4883: | [R], Oh your right, then I'd have to have a different cable for my printer than my phone.... oh wait |
| [03:13:49] | [R]: | but all of your phones use the same cable |
| [03:13:57] | [R]: | vs 1 cable for lg one for motorola, etc |
| [03:14:15] | tgm4883: | [R], Actually no. One of my phones uses micro usb, the other uses mini usb |
| [03:14:16] | sphery: | but don't plug your motorola charger into your lg phone |
| [03:14:22] | sphery: | or your canon camera |
| [03:14:23] | [R]: | really? all my recent phones use micro |
| [03:14:28] | wagnerrp: | i never did like the 2-socket USB host port |
| [03:14:38] | sphery: | I have mini usb on my 2 phones |
| [03:14:46] | [R]: | must not be very sexy phones |
| [03:14:49] | wagnerrp: | ive broken like half a dozen of those things |
| [03:14:54] | sphery: | very old |
| [03:14:56] | tgm4883: | [R], ah I see, I just have to spend $500 on a new phone to use the same cable. That makes sense |
| [03:15:03] | wagnerrp: | my old phone (razer) had mini-usb |
| [03:15:04] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:15:09] | [R]: | tgm4883: my env3 had a micro |
| [03:15:13] | [R]: | that was free |
| [03:15:20] | tgm4883: | [R], no it wasn't |
| [03:15:28] | wagnerrp: | my headset uses something smaller than micro |
| [03:15:29] | tgm4883: | you paid for it, just not when you received it |
| [03:15:30] | wagnerrp: | dont know what it is |
| [03:15:44] | [R]: | tgm4883: i would have been paying for the service regardless |
| [03:15:52] | tgm4883: | [R], cause you live in the USA |
| [03:16:03] | [R]: | yes |
| [03:16:09] | tgm4883: | apparently in europe there is a different price if you buy the phone |
| [03:16:10] | Beirdo: | just assume the taxpayer position |
| [03:16:11] | tgm4883: | so i'm told |
| [03:16:18] | J-e-f-f-A: | Both my work phone (HTC Inspire 4G) and my personal phone (Motorola Droid 1) have micro-usb ports. But if I charge my Droid1 with the HTC charger, sometimes it overheats... which makes me think the HTC puts out > 5v, even though the charger is labelled as 5v output. |
| [03:16:34] | [R]: | J-e-f-f-A: its the current, not the voltage |
| [03:16:42] | [R]: | J-e-f-f-A: both phones should be rated to 1amp |
| [03:17:13] | sphery: | tgm4883: no joke... I just switched from a post-paid contract (costing me $68/mo) to prepaid (where I don't pay for phone upgrades over a 2yr contract). With the prepaid, I can get more than before (unlimited talk, text, data) for $23 less than I paid for unlimited talk + 400 text or can go to 1500 talk + text (what I'm actually using) for $41 less--each month |
| [03:17:25] | sphery: | amazing jus thow much they charge you for that "free" upgrade |
| [03:17:58] | tgm4883: | sphery, yea, it's outrageous |
| [03:18:10] | sphery: | if only I knew 5 years ago what I know today... I'd be $2460 richer |
| [03:18:19] | tgm4883: | sphery, if only they offed that in the US |
| [03:18:21] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:18:26] | sphery: | tgm4883: I'm in the us |
| [03:18:42] | tgm4883: | what did you switch to? |
| [03:19:09] | sphery: | though I will admit prepaid isn't for everyone, but if you're interested, you should do some research on the 'net |
| [03:19:18] | J-e-f-f-A: | [R]: If the charger is truely putting out just 5v, my Droid would not have overheated. Sure, the charger can put out 1A power, but it should be regulated at 5v – i'm sure it's putting out more than 5V |
| [03:19:19] | tgm4883: | 1500 talk + text, that sounds like tmobile prepaid |
| [03:19:27] | sphery: | yep |
| [03:19:32] | tgm4883: | yea I looked at that |
| [03:19:44] | tgm4883: | I almost switched, but i'm pretty much locked into this forever |
| [03:19:45] | sphery: | getting prepaid cards from callingmart.com--they have a 10% off discount once a month |
| [03:20:05] | [R]: | J-e-f-f-A: i doubt that ,but whatever |
| [03:20:11] | tgm4883: | sphery, I'm thinking I should just get a mifi and toss the phone |
| [03:20:27] | sphery: | will be interesting to see what happens with AT&T buyout... I liked T-Mo, though, because I could bring any GSM phone with me and avoid having to buy a provider-specific phone. |
| [03:20:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | [R]: I guess my 5 years of Electronics failed me then... I do know what Ohm's law is and the difference of Voltage VS Current. |
| [03:21:19] | tgm4883: | sphery, yea, two things that need to change. 1) multiple cell standards 2) nickel and dimeing people for every little thing |
| [03:21:20] | [R]: | well measure it then |
| [03:21:31] | [R]: | don't "think" |
| [03:21:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | I don't happen to have a MicroUSB breakout cable... |
| [03:21:42] | tgm4883: | oh, and ala cart cable |
| [03:21:54] | J-e-f-f-A: | And the leads for my DMM aren't that tiny. |
| [03:22:10] | sphery: | tgm4883: funniest part is that t-mobile dropped the unlimited data post-paid plan, but still has it for prepaid: http://prepaid-phones.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans vs http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/cell-phone . . . p=individual |
| [03:22:31] | [R]: | J-e-f-f-A: oh well |
| [03:22:58] | Beirdo: | J-e-f-f-A: it is the current, in particular pulsing the current higher for faster charging (switching power supplies are fun), and heating the battery |
| [03:23:28] | Beirdo: | if you can charge off a PC's USB port, be sure that the voltage is 5V :) |
| [03:24:32] | J-e-f-f-A: | Well, then the charger is not providing a steady 5v out of the HTC charger then... If I had a microUSB breakout cable, I'd put the scope on it to see for sure, but for now I just don't put my Droid on that charger anymore. ;-) |
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| [03:28:29] | tgm4883: | sphery, looking at this, I might be going to a $45 sprint wifi AP |
| [03:28:42] | tgm4883: | unlimited 4G, 3GB of 3G |
| [03:28:48] | [R]: | wtf? |
| [03:29:05] | tgm4883: | [R], yea, this conversation got way OT |
| [03:29:18] | [R]: | no... unlimited 4g |
| [03:29:20] | [R]: | but 3gb of 3g? |
| [03:29:21] | sphery: | tgm4883: nice... the big downside is paying 2 months of your old postpaid while paying 2 months of your new prepaid |
| [03:29:34] | tgm4883: | [R], yep |
| [03:29:54] | tgm4883: | sphery, yea that sucks, but you'll make it up over time |
| [03:30:01] | sphery: | (since they bill you after use for the postpaid, then you pay the bill about a month later, you get a couple of overlaps, not just one) |
| [03:30:10] | sphery: | agreed |
| [03:30:14] | sphery: | it's well worth it |
| [03:30:40] | sphery: | I really wish I knew about the option years ago--I haven't been upgrading my phones, so I was just donating money to the provider |
| [03:30:57] | tgm4883: | sphery, the problem is that I have a huge family plan on sprint right now |
| [03:31:08] | tgm4883: | makes switching to other things pretty difficult |
| [03:31:12] | sphery: | still waiting for that GNU phone |
| [03:31:24] | [R]: | never gonna happen |
| [03:31:37] | sphery: | tgm4883: ah, yeah, depending on the family plan you have and the number of people you need phones for and the amount each needs, you may do better with the family plan |
| [03:32:00] | tgm4883: | sphery, yea 6 people on this plan |
| [03:32:06] | tgm4883: | you don't want to see my phone bill |
| [03:32:12] | sphery: | [R]: well, openmoko has been making a pretty good push for it--even post collapse of the company |
| [03:32:54] | sphery: | I fully expect to be able to do Debian or the likes on a "not bleeding edge" phone within a few years |
| [03:33:31] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:34:01] | tgm4883: | hmm |
| [03:34:11] | tgm4883: | I might have had a debian variant running on a phone once |
| [03:34:22] | tgm4883: | but it might have been just a PDA, that was a long time ago |
| [03:35:55] | sphery: | tgm4883: heh, I can imagine... a friend of mine has Sprint family plan with a bunch of people on it (6 or so?) and says he's paying $35/line all said and done |
| [03:36:30] | sphery: | though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some creative accounting involved--like that being the pre-taxes-and-fees price (where all mine were post-taxes-and-fees) |
| [03:37:32] | sphery: | yeah, I have put several different distributions on my Openmoko Freerunner... They're not there just yet, but are coming along--and I'm stubborn enough to use a good OS even when I have to work a bit to do it. |
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| [03:38:41] | sphery: | and I don't really care to pay for a 2nd ISP (have one at home, why should I pay for one on my phone), so my requirements are pretty simple compared to most people's |
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| [03:48:43] | tgm4883: | sphery, nope thats about what mine is after taxes and fees for 6 people |
| [03:48:50] | tgm4883: | ~30–35 per person |
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| [03:49:18] | sphery: | for an unlimited for everyone plan? |
| [03:49:33] | sphery: | if so, that's not bad--and likely better than you could do with prepaid |
| [03:49:33] | tgm4883: | it's unlimted text and data, 1500 anytime minutes |
| [03:49:52] | sphery: | 1500 for each or total? |
| [03:49:55] | tgm4883: | I used exactly 1 anytime minute last month, although others on my plan use it |
| [03:49:57] | tgm4883: | 1500 total |
| [03:50:03] | sphery: | heh, cool |
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| [03:57:34] | wagnerrp: | friggen motorcyclists |
| [03:58:09] | wagnerrp: | running their brights, splitting traffic |
| [04:07:05] | wagnerrp: | so theres like half a dozen smoke shops in the area that advertise on the radio |
| [04:07:32] | wagnerrp: | and theyre not advertising stuff like fine cigars, theyre advertising water pipes, aersoloers, and such |
| [04:07:43] | wagnerrp: | is there actually that large of a smoking subculture |
| [04:07:49] | wagnerrp: | or are they just a bunch of potheads? |
| [04:08:23] | wagnerrp: | s/aerosolers/vaporizors/ |
| [04:09:52] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [04:09:56] | Beirdo: | bongs FTW |
| [04:18:49] | wagnerrp: | i think ill implement the new metadata stuff in the bindings |
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| [04:29:43] | iamlindoro: | Heh, I never thought about the semi-absurdity of querying one source for their XML, massaging it into another XML format, parsing it into a data object, then re-rendering it in a third XML format. (TVDB/TMDB->Myth Metadata XML->MetadataLookup->Services API XML) |
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| [04:31:31] | wagnerrp: | its not the same XML format? |
| [04:31:50] | iamlindoro: | No, I have no real control over the XML format the services API puts out |
| [04:32:10] | iamlindoro: | I mean, I could probably hack the bajesus out of it to make it closely resemble the Universal format |
| [04:32:15] | iamlindoro: | but never exactly |
| [04:32:33] | iamlindoro: | since lots of the info in the universal format is attributes, which isn't a concept that exists in the Services API |
| [04:33:05] | wagnerrp: | well i guess ill find out when this finishes building |
| [04:33:16] | iamlindoro: | as in, a piece of artwork in the Universal format is a single line with an attribute for thumb, url, width, height, etc... but you can't do that in the Services API |
| [04:33:35] | wagnerrp: | ah |
| [04:33:45] | iamlindoro: | So instead it's replaced by an Artwork subnode and four child text nodes |
| [04:33:49] | iamlindoro: | five, rather |
| [04:33:56] | iamlindoro: | type, url, thumbnail, width, height |
| [04:34:28] | wagnerrp: | well lets see if i can get the metadata class in the bindings to handle both |
| [04:34:46] | wagnerrp: | if the field names are otherwise the same |
| [04:35:02] | iamlindoro: | some of them are, but the encapsulation is pretty different |
| [04:36:49] | iamlindoro: | metadata == VideoLookups, item == VideoLookup, then it's mostly the same for the single line stuff, then <Artwork><ArtworkItem><type>fanart</type><Url>blah </Url><Thumbnail>blah</Thumbnail><Width>1920</Width&g t;<Height>1080</Height></ArtworkItem><Artwork> |
| [04:37:23] | iamlindoro: | and so on |
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| [04:39:58] | iamlindoro: | Mostly I just wanted to get it done to allow some manner of recording rule configuration to be written for MythWeb |
| [04:40:28] | iamlindoro: | and it seemed that ThisNew Guy has wanted to step up and do that-- and I'm happy to let him, I'm a heavy user of mythweb scheduling too |
| [04:40:49] | iamlindoro: | so I could have just written a lookup that returned the three or four pieces we track, but you know how it gets when you get carried away |
| [04:43:52] | wagnerrp: | indeed |
| [04:44:08] | wagnerrp: | you write a 10000 character commit message |
| [04:44:11] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [04:44:47] | iamlindoro: | indeed |
| [04:45:16] | wagnerrp: | no programdetail.h? bugger |
| [04:45:49] | iamlindoro: | that was Stuart M's commit from yesterday-- distclean |
| [04:45:53] | iamlindoro: | I had that last night |
| [04:46:04] | wagnerrp: | yeah, but thats after 10 minutes of compiling |
| [04:46:07] | iamlindoro: | or just distclean mythwelcome and mythshutdown |
| [04:46:13] | iamlindoro: | and go from there |
| [04:46:14] | wagnerrp: | (and i dont have ccache set up on this machine) |
| [04:46:45] | iamlindoro: | can just distclean in those two dirs, that should do it |
| [04:46:55] | wagnerrp: | already did the whole thing |
| [04:47:01] | iamlindoro: | boo |
| [04:47:50] | wagnerrp: | i need to get this backend transitioned over to the new jail (which hash ccache) |
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| [04:54:14] | sphery: | I take it you don't believe in Free software |
| [04:54:22] | sphery: | locking mythbackend up in a jail... |
| [04:55:10] | iamlindoro: | He does believe in free software |
| [04:55:14] | iamlindoro: | even when it's for sale |
| [04:55:16] | iamlindoro: | thus the jail |
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| [04:58:58] | wagnerrp: | i really need to update my jail script |
| [04:59:12] | wagnerrp: | as it stands, i cant terminate that jail without crashing my server |
| [04:59:38] | sphery: | you know, normal people would just use a virtual machine for that :) |
| [04:59:59] | wagnerrp: | blasphemy |
| [05:00:01] | sphery: | I hear it's more efficient |
| [05:00:10] | iamlindoro: | GET WITH THE TIMES, DUMMY |
| [05:00:31] | wagnerrp: | actually, my troubles are due to a virtualized network device |
| [05:00:54] | sphery: | I can run all my computers on the same piece of piece of hardware, rather than 9 different systems |
| [05:00:56] | wagnerrp: | i had to set up a virtual device and bridge it onto the network for the hdhomerun and upnp to work |
| [05:01:17] | sphery: | I figure I must have a Pentium MMX around here that can replace the collective |
| [05:01:20] | wagnerrp: | and there is something funky with it that you cannot destroy the device without hanging the system |
| [05:01:54] | sphery: | weird |
| [05:09:55] | wagnerrp: | gah... schema update |
| [05:10:11] | iamlindoro: | t'weren't me |
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| [05:17:25] | sphery: | t'were me |
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| [05:18:23] | wagnerrp: | seems i forgot one of the ipv6 checks |
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| [05:36:18] | k-man: | with themes – is there any way of specifying constants of some sort. say for instance you want to define an X position, so all buttons would line up to $X or something. then you set $X=200 or something |
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| [05:46:05] | k-man: | or it could be interesting to set up the theme generation with a preprocessor |
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| [05:49:48] | iamlindoro: | k-man: You don't get to claim copyright on a theme someone else wrote, you should change your README |
| [05:51:31] | k-man: | iamlindoro, ok |
| [05:51:58] | k-man: | yes you are correct – it was not my intention |
| [05:52:04] | iamlindoro: | There are also probably some legal issue with you removing the nonspecific license and adding GPLv2 text |
| [05:52:30] | k-man: | hmm... you might be right |
| [05:52:45] | k-man: | but also, it is distributed with mythtv which iianm is GPL2? |
| [05:52:49] | iamlindoro: | For the logs sake: https://github.com/jasonblewis/MythCenterNew/ . . . 011c85a5b21e |
| [05:52:59] | iamlindoro: | MythTV is a mix of licenses |
| [05:53:22] | iamlindoro: | Certain parts of covered by GPLv2, certains parts by the LGPL, certain parts by LGPLv2, etc. |
| [05:53:40] | k-man: | ok |
| [05:53:42] | iamlindoro: | therefore, if a part of it has a license section which doesn't specifically state it is a particular license, it's not |
| [05:53:46] | wagnerrp: | UnknownProtocol: HTTP/0.0 |
| [05:53:49] | wagnerrp: | thats funky... |
| [05:54:18] | iamlindoro: | anyway, just trying to save you trouble, some people are sensitive to this kind of thing |
| [05:54:36] | k-man: | iamlindoro, I appreciate it |
| [05:55:43] | iamlindoro: | also, remember that there's the GPLv2 and the GPLv2 with the "or any later version" clause, which means anyone taking that code can relicense that under the GPLv3, which has serious consequences for MythTV... TTBOMK none of our code includes the any later version clause (which is the version your put on your fork) |
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| [05:56:14] | iamlindoro: | license issues are tricky, you just want to be careful, that's all |
| [05:56:27] | wagnerrp: | wget works, i wonder why python isnt happy |
| [05:56:46] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: API? |
| [05:57:29] | k-man: | iamlindoro, thanks for your guidnace |
| [05:57:32] | k-man: | guidance |
| [05:57:43] | iamlindoro: | np |
| [05:58:29] | k-man: | iamlindoro, the original licence states "The contents may be freely distributed and changed." do you thinke people's opinion is that also implies "and must retain this licence"? |
| [05:58:55] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: http://pastebin.com/kA336qKk |
| [05:58:56] | iamlindoro: | contents and licensing are two entirely different entities |
| [05:59:11] | wagnerrp: | seems like the server is returning something python doesnt like |
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| [05:59:42] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: I'm just a consumer of the API, I don't have control over any of the protocol bits |
| [05:59:50] | iamlindoro: | dblain is who you want |
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| [05:59:58] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [06:01:34] | iamlindoro: | k-man: The license is immutable unless a license change is agreed to by *all* authors of a work, unless those authors have signed over copyright and ownership to a central entity |
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| [06:02:07] | iamlindoro: | k-man: meaning to relicense any part of MythTV, you'd need to get the agreement of everyone who has ever written any part of the bit being relicensed |
| [06:02:16] | iamlindoro: | since we don't require any signing over of rights/copyrights |
| [06:02:40] | k-man: | ok |
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| [06:03:10] | k-man: | I am going to write to Joroen and ask how he feels/is it even possible to change it to GPL2 |
| [06:03:12] | iamlindoro: | It's the same reason various core Linux groups (eg FSF) *do* require such things, so that they can relicense if they so choose |
| [06:03:26] | iamlindoro: | k-man: You'd need to also ask everyone else who has ever contributed code to MythCenter |
| [06:03:54] | Seananseo: | hi all...anyone answer a simple (dumb?) question? |
| [06:04:13] | k-man: | Seananseo, just ask your question |
| [06:04:14] | wagnerrp: | that depends on the question |
| [06:05:04] | Seananseo: | Wondering if this patch should be avail. in Myth 0.24.1 – http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4262 |
| [06:05:19] | Seananseo: | saving audio sync |
| [06:05:54] | iamlindoro: | [27148] |
| [06:05:54] | MythLogBot: | SVN 27148: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/9dbe19fb |
| [06:06:57] | iamlindoro: | No |
| [06:07:14] | wagnerrp: | the ticket says the milestone is 0.24 |
| [06:07:23] | wagnerrp: | if it hasnt been backported, thats wrong |
| [06:07:38] | Seananseo: | can't see that it's actually there |
| [06:07:39] | iamlindoro: | Was a new feature after release of .24 |
| [06:08:15] | wagnerrp: | its a new per-frontend setting for global audio offset |
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| [06:09:16] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: seems i need to % encode my inputs |
| [06:09:29] | iamlindoro: | yuck |
| [06:09:42] | Seananseo: | anyone actually use it? I can't find it in 0.24.1 |
| [06:09:44] | wagnerrp: | Title='Star Wars' fails, Title='Star%20Wars' works fine |
| [06:09:53] | wagnerrp: | should be easy to add |
| [06:10:01] | iamlindoro: | Seananseo: again, it's not in .24 |
| [06:10:16] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: Is that an actual JSON query? Or using the regular GET method? |
| [06:10:46] | iamlindoro: | Kinda surprising that the lib doesn't Percent encode by itself |
| [06:10:50] | Seananseo: | ok...the milestone is what lead me astray |
| [06:11:23] | Seananseo: | does that mean it's in limbo? |
| [06:11:25] | wagnerrp: | the header is set to query a JSON response, yes |
| [06:11:25] | iamlindoro: | Milestone was set after the fact by someone not involved in the ticket. It's not in .24. |
| [06:11:34] | iamlindoro: | It means it's in master, which will ultimately be .25. |
| [06:11:38] | k-man: | on the theme dev page: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythUI_Theme_Development#Validation it says xmllint is widely available. it is not clear to me where to get it from, and google does not give me a definitive answer |
| [06:12:06] | k-man: | any idea where to get xmllint that the page refers to? |
| [06:12:27] | iamlindoro: | It's the first result for xmllint in google |
| [06:12:29] | iamlindoro: | http://xmlsoft.org/ |
| [06:12:38] | k-man: | thanks iamlindoro |
| [06:12:44] | Seananseo: | thanks...guess i'll have to keep resetting for now |
| [06:12:46] | iamlindoro: | welcome |
| [06:13:34] | iamlindoro: | k-man: most package systems give you the correct package name to install if you just try the command |
| [06:13:38] | Seananseo: | oh well...back to the natty upgrade weirdness |
| [06:13:49] | iamlindoro: | In this case, it will be some form of libxml |
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| [06:15:44] | k-man: | iamlindoro, ah, it is in libxml2-utils in debian |
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| [06:25:43] | k-man: | validating gives this error: themeinfo.xml:2: element themeinfo: Schemas validity error : Element 'themeinfo': No matching global declaration available for the validation root. |
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| [06:38:13] | k-man: | other theme's do not validate on themeinfo either |
| [06:48:30] | dekarl: | k-man: the files do refer to a schema, right? And xmllint knows where it can find that schema? |
| [06:51:14] | k-man: | yes it validates all the other files in the theme |
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| [06:52:18] | dekarl: | uhh, there is no element named "themeinfo" in http://www.mythtv.org/schema/mythuitheme.xsd ... |
| [06:52:36] | k-man: | hmm... |
| [06:52:49] | k-man: | maybe there should be? |
| [06:53:38] | dekarl: | hmm, as the file is the one file that follows another schema it might as well use a different schema file. |
| [06:54:11] | k-man: | I'm new to xml validation |
| [06:54:15] | dekarl: | oh, and yes. To validate there better be one :) |
| [06:54:17] | k-man: | but your logic sounds good |
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| [06:56:16] | k-man: | I think everyone went to bed |
| [06:56:54] | k-man: | so it should perhaps be themeinfo.xsd |
| [06:57:44] | dekarl: | lets just wait for a myththemeinfo.xsd that can be referenced in the beginning of the themeinfo.xml (I'm off to work, on european time ;) |
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| [07:03:51] | k-man: | ok |
| [07:04:02] | k-man: | maybe I should raise a ticket? |
| [07:05:18] | dekarl: | I'd ask on the list if someone has the schema definition at hand. After all it comes in handy with all the autocompletion in xml editors ;) (even for such a simple schema) |
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| [11:38:01] | styelz: | hey there.. i |
| [11:39:06] | styelz: | i'm using mythstream for radio etc di.fm and all that.. is there anyway to schedule recordings for srtreams, or any alternative ? |
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| [12:26:13] | ThisNewGuy: | hey all – are there any known issues with the HD-PVR firmware v. 1.5.7.0? |
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| [12:38:11] | elkin: | hi... I was wondering if there is a setting to have the recordings show sorted by season/episode in the WatchedRecorded screen? |
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| [12:56:50] | stuartm: | not yet apparently, but I guess we're about to make an already complicated screen even more complex |
| [12:59:26] | elkin: | stuartm: yea, would be nice if using the "m" key we could select the sorting style... |
| [12:59:52] | elkin: | stuartm: maybe by pressing it 3 times like when getting to the groups menu? |
| [13:01:13] | elkin: | stuartm: it's a feature that would make the WAF in my home ever higher (not having to search for the previous Grey's Anatomy through several new ones) |
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| [13:16:18] | stuartm: | heh, BBC News are reporting that a sink hole opened up in Guatemala when it's clearly an old well, clearly lined with bricks and perfectly round |
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| [14:13:02] | iamlindoro: | stuartm: It somewhat surprises me that a sinkhole in central america qualifies as worldwide-worthy news |
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| [14:13:19] | iamlindoro: | or rather, a non-sinkhole |
| [14:14:22] | stuartm: | iamlindoro: slow news day :) |
| [14:14:44] | iamlindoro: | guess it beats the alternative |
| [14:24:46] | wagnerrp: | especially considering how frequent they are |
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| [14:25:15] | wagnerrp: | and its not like its a giant 100' wide gaping maw |
| [14:25:21] | wagnerrp: | its just a tiny well |
| [14:25:37] | wagnerrp: | the only thing of note is that it opened up in someone's bedroom |
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| [14:34:57] | iamlindoro: | HAHA |
| [14:35:15] | sid3windr: | maybe the holes in oslo are a bit more worthwile? ;) |
| [14:35:31] | sid3windr: | someone heard you and sneezed over there ;) |
| [14:35:58] | iamlindoro: | Guy wants to sell Myth boxes, and wants someone to do assembly and provide parts... for $100/per |
| [14:36:22] | wagnerrp: | where at? |
| [14:36:27] | iamlindoro: | Hard to take seriously someone on the contractors list who doesn't know where to go to find someone to do manufacturing for them |
| [14:36:31] | iamlindoro: | contractors google group |
| [14:36:34] | wagnerrp: | ah |
| [14:37:21] | jams: | wait $100 per box to assemble and the parts are not provided? |
| [14:39:28] | iamlindoro: | jams: Seems he wants the $100 to be parts AND assembly |
| [14:39:55] | devinheitmueller: | that can't be right. |
| [14:40:04] | devinheitmueller: | He really can't expect to be building anything that resembles a PC for $100. |
| [14:40:19] | jams: | wow |
| [14:40:20] | iamlindoro: | Of course it can, our users are reliably unrealistic |
| [14:40:28] | wagnerrp: | i seem to recall a penny arcade comic where gabe asks tycho to build him a gaming computer |
| [14:40:31] | lwizardl: | lol |
| [14:40:41] | devinheitmueller: | That said though, if he's only talking about a frontend then I could probably hit that price point if he wanted to make a volume commitment of 400 units. |
| [14:40:41] | wagnerrp: | so tycho gives him a computer case full of feces |
| [14:40:47] | wagnerrp: | but i cant find it... |
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| [14:43:52] | stuartm: | sid3windr: one little car bomb, so much damage :/ |
| [14:44:27] | sid3windr: | noone seems to be really sure what kind of bomb it was |
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| [14:44:32] | sid3windr: | there are pictures with fire on the top floor |
| [14:44:36] | sid3windr: | which is kind of inconsistent with a car bomb |
| [14:44:58] | stuartm: | sid3windr: it was a car bomb, there is a completely wrecked burnt out car outside the building |
| [14:45:05] | sid3windr: | hmm :) |
| [14:45:28] | stuartm: | but there are also reports of a second explosion which may have been a second device inside the building |
| [14:48:02] | stuartm: | the car wreckage can be seen in the footage the BBC are looping – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705 |
| [14:48:20] | lwizardl: | ok I need some advice about my setup. I have the comcast RNG110 cable box. and when i look at the back of the unit it has no rg6 out, no svideo out. so my only option I can see using is the composite out to my hvr-1600 will that provide me with a good quality recording or should I go to comcast and switch the box for a dct6200 |
| [14:48:21] | lwizardl: | ? |
| [14:48:39] | stuartm: | it's lying on it's side, roof completely blown off, charred black |
| [14:48:56] | stuartm: | or so it appears anyway |
| [14:49:27] | wagnerrp: | lwizardl: if youre willing to pay the extra for a real cable box, i would |
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| [14:50:15] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: also be forewarned, the HVR-1600's IR blaster won't work with that device. You will need an MCEUSB blaster. |
| [14:50:16] | stuartm: | though now I'm seeing it again it's perhaps not what I first thought, it's hard to tell |
| [14:50:35] | lwizardl: | wagnerrp, I originally had a dct6200 cable box and when the tech came here to try and fix my "signal" problems they switched out the box. so I don't think I am paying anything different |
| [14:50:37] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: refresh-all-artwork operates on anything which is non-generic |
| [14:50:43] | stuartm: | ah well, useless speculation is for the news anchors, I'll get back to work ;) |
| [14:50:44] | iamlindoro: | not just anything with an inetref |
| [14:50:48] | lwizardl: | devinheitmueller, I have a Lirc device for that |
| [14:51:10] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: ok, as long as you have some LIRC blaster and aren't expecting to use the HVR-1600 onboard blaster, then you should be fine. |
| [14:51:14] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: okay, i misunderstood it based on what is printed in --help |
| [14:51:39] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: ah, you're right, I'll amend the help text |
| [14:51:48] | lwizardl: | devinheitmueller, yeah I have the dual line version of this http://cgi.ebay.com/IR-Blaster-MythTV-and-LIR . . . em27bc85d8a7 |
| [14:51:51] | devinheitmueller: | That said, the composite input is probably fine. It's standard def and unless you have a trained eye then you aren't going to notice the difference. |
| [14:52:31] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: I wrote the help text when I first started developing the feature, and never read it again |
| [14:52:48] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: sounds familiar :) |
| [14:53:16] | lwizardl: | I do pay for the HD service from comcast and would like to save the HD streams if possible. |
| [14:53:33] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: if you want the HD streams, then you would need to capture with an HD-PVR. |
| [14:53:39] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: It started out in my head as written in the help text, but I realized that the feature is then fundamentally useless for the lazy (which includes many of our users) |
| [14:53:43] | devinheitmueller: | (connected to the component output of the cable box) |
| [14:54:01] | lwizardl: | I know I can record them as standard def recordings but would like to try and not do that |
| [14:54:12] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: The current way is still fairly conservative, but works even when the user is upgrading and has done nothing at all to adjust to the new way of doing things |
| [14:54:29] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: with the HVR-1600, you have no alternative. |
| [14:54:49] | lwizardl: | devinheitmueller, ah ok what card would allow that and fully supported ? |
| [14:55:05] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: the only device supported under Linux which can capture analog HD is the HD-PVR. |
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| [14:55:39] | devinheitmueller: | If you're willing to wait a bit, you can also get a cablecard enabled product like the SiliconDust HD HomeRun Prime or the Hauppauge DCR2650. |
| [14:55:55] | lwizardl: | Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 Receiver ? that the right one ? |
| [14:56:01] | devinheitmueller: | (in which case you would rent a cablecard from Comcast, but at a significantly cheaper rate than an STB) |
| [14:56:06] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: correct. |
| [14:56:47] | devinheitmueller: | The other benefits of the cablecard products is that they have multiple tuners, so you can record more than one show at a time (whereas with the HD-PVR, you need a separate HD-PVR and STB for each channel you want to record). |
| [14:56:48] | lwizardl: | depending on the cost of them two devices I may get one |
| [14:57:11] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: fixed, thanks |
| [14:57:21] | devinheitmueller: | The Hauppauge device has two tuners and will sell for $129 to Facebook friends. The SiliconDust product has published pricing but I don't remember what it is. |
| [14:57:58] | wagnerrp: | $250 |
| [14:58:08] | stuartm: | is it worth mentioning that both the CableCard devices and the HD-PVR are restricted to what they can record based on the whims of the cable company? |
| [14:58:08] | wagnerrp: | facebook friends? |
| [14:58:16] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, and bear in mind the cablecard products won't let you record channels like HBO with MythTV. |
| [14:58:29] | wagnerrp: | the HDPVR isnt restricted... yet... |
| [14:58:43] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: The Facebook page for "Hauppauge Computer Works" has a link for special pricing. |
| [14:58:44] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: they don't disable the component output? |
| [14:58:53] | wagnerrp: | not that im aware of |
| [14:59:06] | devinheitmueller: | stuartm: they are not permitted to disable the component output *yet*. |
| [14:59:11] | stuartm: | ah ok, I assumed they would |
| [14:59:11] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: :) another question.. i have like ~15 recordings of particular series. in here we dont have subtitles and no episode or season numbers. refresh-all-artwork goes 15 times to look up artwork when I think once would be enough? |
| [14:59:17] | devinheitmueller: | stuartm: google for "Selective Output Control" |
| [14:59:36] | lwizardl: | i found 3 "like" pages for Hauppauge Computer Works |
| [14:59:52] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: have they simply started releasing cable boxes with no analog outputs? |
| [14:59:56] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: It's the "Computers/Technology" one... |
| [15:00:28] | lwizardl: | https://www.facebook.com/hauppaugecomputerworks that one ? |
| [15:00:28] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: they probably will eventually, which will avoid the issue entirely. To my knowledge though, most HD cable boxes still carry component out. |
| [15:00:37] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: yes. |
| [15:01:04] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: Sort of unavoidable, though the results are actually cached so it's only happening locally. You can either add the series to The TVDB and give it episode names by airdate, or you can set an inetref on the rule and let it copy down to the recordings. The inetref needn't be usable by the source. |
| [15:01:07] | devinheitmueller: | lwizardl: scroll six or seven posts down to the one that says "Special offer for our Facebook friends: buy the dual..." |
| [15:01:39] | lwizardl: | nice thank you |
| [15:01:58] | stuartm: | to the best of my memory we've never had component output on satellite or cable boxes here in the UK, it was HDMI from day one |
| [15:02:02] | devinheitmueller: | Will probably be the first Hauppauge product I've had to buy in the last three years... |
| [15:02:13] | devinheitmueller: | stuartm: that was definitely the trend in Europe. |
| [15:02:36] | ** wagnerrp needs to start an exercise program based off sneezing ** | |
| [15:02:51] | wagnerrp: | i could sell $100 bottles of 'workout inducer' (pepper) |
| [15:03:21] | wagnerrp: | ive been sneezing all morning, i feel like ive done 50 situps |
| [15:04:12] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: The lookup behavior/number you are seeing is roughly analogous to what JAMU used to do 48 times per day on Mythbuntu-- at least we only do it once per day ;) |
| [15:04:43] | iamlindoro: | and, dare I say it, much more effectively |
| [15:04:49] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: caching explains a lot.. so far i've only added some Finnish titles for series to tvdb and it worked well with jamu |
| [15:05:16] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: huh.. 48 per day is a lot :) |
| [15:05:28] | iamlindoro: | 5 and 35 after the hour, every hour |
| [15:05:46] | iamlindoro: | okolsi: When you add new content to TheTVDB, it takes a few days for them to push it out to their caching servers, which are the ones hit by the API |
| [15:05:55] | okolsi: | I used to run jamu once a week and that worked quite well |
| [15:05:57] | iamlindoro: | so unfortuantely changes aren't immediately reflrected in apps |
| [15:06:21] | okolsi: | good to know! |
| [15:06:30] | iamlindoro: | If you prefer to run the artwork update once per week, that is of course possible-- just turn off the daily version run by the housekeeper and cron your own weekly one |
| [15:06:45] | iamlindoro: | Daily version turned on and off in Setup->Artwork and Data Sources |
| [15:08:50] | okolsi: | have to see how to schedule this once i know more how it operates etc.. i still need to learn myth locale / lang settings.. since now i'm using enlish locale(?) and all the lookups are done with lang en when those shoud be fin or something like that |
| [15:09:32] | okolsi: | so.. i like to have english menus etc but program titles should be looked up using finnish.. |
| [15:09:38] | iamlindoro: | Why not use your native language setting? |
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| [15:09:49] | iamlindoro: | If you want a mismatch, you'll need to edit code |
| [15:09:58] | okolsi: | hmm.. :( |
| [15:10:06] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: uh oh... user complaining they cant figure out nuvexport becasue it has no man page |
| [15:10:17] | iamlindoro: | specifically, search for the string "-l" with the quotes in libs/libmythmetadata/metadatadownload.cpp |
| [15:10:56] | iamlindoro: | remove the bit where it appends the FE language code, and instead add args.append("fi"); (assuming that's your language code) |
| [15:11:38] | okolsi: | iamlindoro: thanks, i'll have to check that out since this is how i really like it. same goes for all operating systems, apps etc. all are in english |
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| [15:12:14] | iamlindoro: | We made a conscious decision that language mismatching wasn't something we could really support when all of this was written in the first place |
| [15:12:14] | okolsi: | (and i don't think i'm the only one) :) |
| [15:12:27] | okolsi: | understand that |
| [15:12:28] | iamlindoro: | but it's a relatively simple code change, so people are free to do as they like |
| [15:12:36] | okolsi: | yeah |
| [15:13:24] | okolsi: | thanks for the tip that it requires code change and cannot be done using configs etc, saved a lot of time for me :) |
| [15:13:32] | iamlindoro: | np |
| [15:16:30] | okolsi: | stuartm: one observation related to PBB and dates.. after recent pbb and date/time changes, Blue Abstract theme has problems with dates |
| [15:16:56] | okolsi: | stuartm: not sure if its known issue or theme issue etc.. |
| [15:17:28] | okolsi: | dates are updated to recordings only when you make particular recording selected/active |
| [15:17:55] | okolsi: | times on the other hand are shown correctly for all recordings at once |
| [15:18:35] | stuartm: | so unless the recording is selected, no dates are shown? |
| [15:18:42] | okolsi: | yep |
| [15:19:11] | stuartm: | I can't see how that would be related to the code changes : |
| [15:20:12] | stuartm: | okolsi: I don't have blue abstract installed, if you can pastebin that section of the xml from the theme it would really help |
| [15:20:18] | okolsi: | okay.. have been updating daily and this started to happen just recentl.. just thought to mention since it sounded like its related |
| [15:21:18] | okolsi: | stuartm: i'll get back to you later? i'm on mobile now and all sorts of copy paste opps are difficult :) |
| [15:21:34] | stuartm: | np |
| [15:21:47] | stuartm: | a little bit busy here anyway :) |
| [15:22:58] | okolsi: | yeah, cosmetic issue anyway :) |
| [15:31:37] | eddytv: | I was wondering the same thing as in ticket 9214 ... am I missing a setting or something. I have to manually select "Mark as watched" after watching something via MythVideo. |
| [15:32:36] | wagnerrp: | do you quit playback before the very end of the video? |
| [15:33:21] | eddytv: | No, I make it a point to let the video play through, or at a minimum skip ahead to the end so it returns to the menu automatically. |
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| [15:34:01] | eddytv: | Also, when I do select "Mark as watched", the UI seems to "lose" the current selection, and I have to re-navigate back to where I was. |
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| [16:04:46] | stuartm: | eddytv: mythvideo doesn't support automatically marking something as watched |
| [16:05:17] | stuartm: | it could easily do so, but it's not been implemented |
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| [16:15:48] | wagnerrp: | hahaha |
| [16:16:27] | wagnerrp: | normally, one would do a bit of searching to make sure they werent creating a duplicate when adding content to themoviedb.org |
| [16:16:59] | wagnerrp: | yet we have http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/69073 which is a duplicate of http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/11 |
| [16:17:28] | stuartm: | heh |
| [16:17:43] | wagnerrp: | guess i should post that on the forums |
| [16:17:46] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: do you have an account for the forums? |
| [16:17:50] | stuartm: | yeah, that |
| [16:17:52] | wagnerrp: | yeah |
| [16:20:02] | stuartm: | The Green Hornet is the second most popular film on TMDB right now? wtf? |
| [16:21:40] | sphery: | wagnerrp: perhaps they had checked 69,061 and figured, "Well, that's almost all of them, I'm sure no one else thought to include Star Wars." |
| [16:22:33] | sphery: | FWIW, I don't like a) the reasoning, or b) the implication that we support ToS abuse in the "Why we can't use HTTP_PROXY." reply. |
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| [16:25:30] | wagnerrp: | sphery: eh? |
| [16:27:10] | sphery: | in the MHEG BBC iPlayer thread |
| [16:28:49] | wagnerrp: | oof... i had to answer a question because it thought i was a bot |
| [16:29:48] | sphery: | wow, someone on -users says that to solve the tearing issue with Sandy Bridge graphics, you can use xshm renderer. |
| [16:29:49] | wagnerrp: | ive had a forum account for over two years, but admittedly ive only made two posts previously |
| [16:30:17] | ** wagnerrp hands sphery the clue stick ** | |
| [16:30:19] | sphery: | in other words, completely broken Xv implementation |
| [16:30:56] | wagnerrp: | luckily, that chip has enough power they should be using opengl rather than xv |
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| [16:31:50] | stuartm: | sphery: it really makes no difference, if/when we commit that feature we can switch it to use http_proxy |
| [16:32:42] | Beirdo: | stuartm: actually, that should prevent us from committing at all |
| [16:33:07] | Beirdo: | he's using a proxy specifically to bypass the TOS |
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| [16:33:12] | stuartm: | how do you come to that conclusion? |
| [16:33:27] | Beirdo: | because he said so |
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| [16:33:59] | Beirdo: | it's to fool the geoip checks that BBC does |
| [16:34:16] | stuartm: | Beirdo: no, I mean that we don't commit the patch with the proxy set to http_proxy (we can't stop people proxying whatever we do, they can just set it up outside mythtv) |
| [16:34:39] | sphery: | stuartm: Yeah, I'm not going to argue it on list... I was just disappointed by the reply. |
| [16:34:40] | Beirdo: | ahhh |
| [16:34:42] | stuartm: | since we do support proxies for other components (mythbrowser, therefore mythnetvision) |
| [16:35:10] | Beirdo: | yeah, they can do it externally, but his rationale for having a separate proxy is not really kosher |
| [16:35:12] | sphery: | but thanks for calming my annoyance with it. |
| [16:35:36] | stuartm: | sphery: it just reinforces my opinion about not handing out commit access, the instincts in this case were right |
| [16:35:50] | ** Beirdo nods ** | |
| [16:36:21] | sphery: | wagnerrp: are you replying about OpenGL? I've started writing one, but will defer to you if you want to |
| [16:36:31] | wagnerrp: | no, im not |
| [16:36:38] | stuartm: | Beirdo: right, it's not and so if he puts forward the patch for inclusion we'll just remove the bits we don't like |
| [16:36:42] | Beirdo: | as much as I'd love to use BBC iPlayer here in the US, BBC doesn't allow it |
| [16:37:08] | Beirdo: | if they'd give an option to pay a reasonable amount/year, I probably would |
| [16:37:11] | stuartm: | the feature itself is worth having, _if_ it operates as I'm told it does by Paul (which I frankly cannot understand) |
| [16:37:24] | eddytv: | stuartm: so should ticket 9214 be unlocked and changed to a "feature request" or something? |
| [16:37:27] | wagnerrp: | and if you really wanted to only route certain traffic through a proxy, its easy enough to set up firewall rules to do so |
| [16:37:45] | wagnerrp: | eddytv: we dont allow feature requests on trac, so no |
| [16:37:57] | wagnerrp: | however we can unlock it and make it a patch if you want to write one |
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| [16:38:44] | eddytv: | ok, fair enough. |
| [16:38:53] | stuartm: | the BBC strictly enforce DRM on their _downloadable_ content, or force you to use flash for streaming, I'm baffled why they'd now open up a loophole by allowing streaming of video unencrypted over http to support the MHEG app |
| [16:38:56] | Beirdo: | anyways :) I should head to the bus that I probably already missed. |
| [16:38:57] | sphery: | wagnerrp: cool... hope mine is good enough, then :) |
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| [16:39:09] | iamlindoro: | eddytv: Are you using the internal player for all your content? |
| [16:39:10] | Beirdo: | stuartm: yeah, it's odd |
| [16:39:29] | iamlindoro: | rather than mplayer, vlc, etc. |
| [16:40:41] | eddytv: | iamlindoro: yes, that's all I've ever used |
| [16:40:57] | stuartm: | I had assumed that the iPlayer via mheg feature required STBs to use either encryption or a key-exchange based authentication |
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| [17:01:47] | dekarl: | styelz: I feed my favorite web radios into the backend like this: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Dekarl/How_to . . . ke_a_Freebox If you have an xmltv grabber (or a manually crafted xmltv schedule) you can program normal recordings, too. |
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| [17:09:41] | ** wagnerrp wonders why MythTV isnt releasing a new version to support Linux 3.0 ** | |
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| [17:10:26] | devinheitmueller: | Linux 3.0: Now with a new version number! |
| [17:10:49] | wagnerrp: | a whole version number, surely that means none of the old software is compatible |
| [17:11:50] | dekarl: | Ohhhh, planning to roll out MythNGTV next? |
| [17:12:34] | wagnerrp: | next generation... does that mean we throw out all our big tvs in favor of tiny phone displays? |
| [17:13:14] | dekarl: | and tablets, don't underestimated a tablet in the tub ;) |
| [17:13:36] | wagnerrp: | you mean a shorted battery? |
| [17:14:59] | dekarl: | Oh, google found a picture of a tublet http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/digital/fernseh . . . 8837361.html |
| [17:15:40] | dekarl: | and the swiss get style points for the daemon duck |
| [17:15:54] | devinheitmueller: | I have to look at the bright side. It only took me 45 minutes to get my graphics card working again after upgrading to 3.0. |
| [17:16:40] | wagnerrp: | just updated for the release? or have you been running it for development for a while? |
| [17:17:00] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: Wow, TRULY IT IS THE YEAR OF LINUX ON THE DESKTOP |
| [17:17:18] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: I updated about a month ago to do some driver work. |
| [17:17:47] | devinheitmueller: | The linuxtv maintainer has essentially changed the model to prevent any development from going on unless you run the latest bleeding edge kernel. |
| [17:18:17] | devinheitmueller: | ... because you know, when I write drivers for Microsoft's platforms they require me to run the bleeding edge alpha version of Windows 8.... |
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| [17:20:25] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: That sucks... how did that get past everyone else? |
| [17:20:48] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: Linux development is not a democracy. |
| [17:20:57] | iamlindoro: | tell that to our users |
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| [17:21:05] | wagnerrp: | they forked to form the linuxvideo project |
| [17:21:05] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [17:21:46] | wagnerrp: | i kid i kid... i just fear mythtv might once suffer the same fate as ffmpeg |
| [17:22:50] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: nah. The ffmpeg dispute was between existing developers; the MythTV disputes are between developers and users. There is nobody to lead a fork... |
| [17:23:23] | wagnerrp: | we have our disputes, just nothing coming close to the scale of what ffmpeg had |
| [17:23:45] | kormoc: | We have a fork, http://sourceforge.net/projects/heliocreek/ |
| [17:23:51] | wagnerrp: | oh? |
| [17:24:04] | wagnerrp: | well, theres also linuxmce |
| [17:24:17] | devinheitmueller: | kormoc: wow! I'm going to start working on *that* project! |
| [17:24:36] | wagnerrp: | last update, two years ago last week |
| [17:24:36] | iamlindoro: | They forked and said they were going to implement something more or less like mythnetvision |
| [17:25:48] | kormoc: | there was also a short lived fork called mythcar |
| [17:26:03] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: they forked just to write a plugin? |
| [17:26:10] | kormoc: | http://ostatic.com/mythcar |
| [17:26:22] | wagnerrp: | or did they reorganize a lot of the internals to try to integrate it more closely? |
| [17:26:26] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp: Well, I'm not sure how they planned to implement it, but the point was to add that functionality, but they never really did |
| [17:26:38] | iamlindoro: | It never really went anywhere |
| [17:26:49] | iamlindoro: | It was yet another "fork and WHAT HAVE I DONE" |
| [17:27:24] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: site seems dead |
| [17:27:24] | kormoc: | or perhaps it was "I forked the project and declared what the developers will do now? where are the developers?" |
| [17:27:28] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, it's uber slow |
| [17:27:45] | iamlindoro: | kormoc: yeah, the classic, "I want to fork! All I need is someone who understands code!" |
| [17:27:56] | iamlindoro: | ie, "I have this great idea, just need someone to write it for me" |
| [17:29:11] | wagnerrp: | sounds like someone we were discussing last night |
| [17:29:50] | sphery: | hey, but it worked--I got you to write the new command-line parser and Beirdo to write the new logger! |
| [17:30:41] | wagnerrp: | amusingly, the command line parser was written because i didnt want to write a command line parsing loop |
| [17:30:43] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [17:32:26] | sphery: | heh, I'm still taking credit |
| [17:32:32] | sphery: | after all, that's what idea men do |
| [17:32:57] | jams: | got that right |
| [17:33:00] | sphery: | (I'm also pretending that I was the first to think of the idea) |
| [17:33:20] | jams: | also right =) |
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| [17:46:31] | dekarl: | All this fork by users talk reminds me of work... there's a reason we plaster our walls with dilbert after all http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-03-21/ |
| [17:51:51] | Beirdo: | today's Dilbert is pretty good too |
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| [18:17:05] | stuartm: | wagnerrp: "sounds like someone we were discussing last night" << Was it me? I have lots of great ideas that I'd like other people to write ;) |
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| [18:17:25] | wagnerrp: | stuartm: nah, feldman guy |
| [18:17:36] | stuartm: | damnit, sphery even beat me to the joke |
| [18:17:43] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [18:17:52] | wagnerrp: | comes onto the mailing list and elsewhere once or twice a year, tries to recruit programmers for his commercial mythtv system |
| [18:18:11] | wagnerrp: | with wild claims like making it ad subsidized |
| [18:18:17] | Beirdo: | yeah, well, some of us don't mind coding stuff off other people's TODO lists when we have converging interests :) |
| [18:18:51] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: at which point its not someone else's todo list, its something YOU want to do |
| [18:19:11] | wagnerrp: | its some feature you either want, or at least find interesting |
| [18:19:21] | wagnerrp: | youre not being forced into it |
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| [18:20:21] | devinheitmueller: | hey, for the right amount of money there are developers willing to work on somebody else's todo list. |
| [18:20:49] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: true enough :) |
| [18:21:02] | wagnerrp: | sure, and youre contracted, meaning you deliver, they pay |
| [18:21:09] | devinheitmueller: | And for those who I have little confidence there will be commercial success, I say "show me 60% upfront." |
| [18:21:11] | kormoc: | Money? What is this? This is OpenSource! |
| [18:21:19] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: instead, hes trying to recruit people to work for his startup |
| [18:21:34] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: Ah. |
| [18:21:36] | wagnerrp: | meaning the idea is a flop, the startup falls through, theyre out of a job |
| [18:22:02] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: yup, but if you took 60% upfront, you still got something outta it |
| [18:22:25] | wagnerrp: | 60% of... a years wages? like a signing bonus? |
| [18:22:32] | wagnerrp: | i guess that would work |
| [18:22:37] | devinheitmueller: | Correct – this prevents people from saying "Sure, I'll pay you a ton of money once you've delivered everything". |
| [18:23:03] | devinheitmueller: | Was this on the mythtv-users ML? |
| [18:23:09] | ** devinheitmueller wants to take a look... ** | |
| [18:23:14] | wagnerrp: | not recently |
| [18:23:29] | wagnerrp: | but hes posted to both the -users and -dev lists on multiple occasions |
| [18:23:30] | devinheitmueller: | Ah, ok. i thought we were talking about some thread of discussion from last night... |
| [18:23:40] | wagnerrp: | as well as the mythtv-contractors group, and mythtvtalk |
| [18:24:16] | wagnerrp: | yes, in here |
| [18:24:20] | wagnerrp: | he was brought up in here |
| [18:24:29] | wagnerrp: | i dont recall the discussion that led to it |
| [18:24:51] | wagnerrp: | oh, the idea of replacing the broadcast ads with your own, using the commercial detector |
| [18:24:54] | devinheitmueller: | Ah, I see it now on mythtv-contractors.... |
| [18:27:40] | devinheitmueller: | Wow, while I like the idea of commercial parties contributing to MythTV, the openivo.blogspot.com just reeks of marketspeak. |
| [18:27:59] | stuartm: | mythtv-contractors? |
| [18:28:07] | wagnerrp: | which is why no one with real programming experience ever bit |
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| [18:29:03] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: not to mention the concept of a company using blogspot as their homepage |
| [18:29:13] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, feels very half-baked. |
| [18:29:35] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, and now I'm seeing the thing iamlindoro was talking about with "$100/piece MythTV boxes" |
| [18:31:53] | devinheitmueller: | Wow, that was a painful series of messages to read. :-/ |
| [18:33:51] | devinheitmueller: | I'm always on the lookout for new "make my tuner work" commercial opportunities, but those people are just nuts... |
| [18:34:04] | iamlindoro: | "Agile Apprentice" |
| [18:34:11] | iamlindoro: | That's a character class from Diablo, not a job |
| [18:34:18] | Beirdo: | hahaha, nice -users list post. |
| [18:34:20] | anykey_: | What is the approach when rescanning transports? Everytime I rescan them, all my channels (which I re-numbered) get the old numbers again. Is it possible to avoid this? |
| [18:34:35] | Beirdo: | "The video files are *huge*!" |
| [18:34:57] | Beirdo: | hey buddy, try using a real encoder, not some framegrabber :) And buy bigger disks |
| [18:35:05] | [R]: | that's what she said |
| [18:35:27] | Beirdo: | complaining that rtjpeg files are huge is just silliness |
| [18:36:23] | stuartm: | iamlindoro: this industry is as bad, if not worse than media for buzzwords and hip new trends |
| [18:36:38] | [R]: | why would anyone complain about something being huge? |
| [18:36:40] | ** [R] giggles ** | |
| [18:36:59] | stuartm: | it's not enough that we're assaulted by new languages every couple of months, we also have to endure agile etc |
| [18:37:38] | devinheitmueller: | Why is he capturing to rtjpeg? Why not just capture to NUV like everything else? |
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| [18:37:45] | Beirdo: | some of the ideas behind agile are pretty nice though. But if you go overboard (as is the norm), it's going nuts. |
| [18:37:53] | iamlindoro: | the RTJPEG is in a NUV container |
| [18:38:06] | iamlindoro: | your options for NUV ar RTJPEG and MPEG-4 ASP |
| [18:38:07] | Beirdo: | devinheitmueller: NUV can be either rtjpeg or MPEG4. Not sure why he'd choose rtjpeg though |
| [18:38:09] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: pardon, I meant why not just encode to MPE2 in NUV. |
| [18:38:19] | devinheitmueller: | s/MPE2/MPEG4/ |
| [18:38:20] | wagnerrp: | mythtv doesnt support mpeg2 compression |
| [18:38:21] | iamlindoro: | NUV doesn't support it |
| [18:38:24] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [18:38:26] | wagnerrp: | because hes dense |
| [18:38:27] | Beirdo: | typo city :) |
| [18:38:36] | Beirdo: | he may have a weak processor |
| [18:38:48] | devinheitmueller: | I could have sworn that NUV contained MPEG2. Guess I never looked that closely at the internal streams... |
| [18:38:53] | iamlindoro: | The greater question is "When the F can we drop NUV and just use MKV instead of always stalling that we're going to implement some system that let's the user use whatever codec and container |
| [18:38:58] | Beirdo: | which would be the first thing to fix, and then the size of your drives |
| [18:39:17] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: it used to, prior to 0.20 (?), mpeg encoders and digital tuners would store in a nuv |
| [18:39:20] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: 0.26, maybe :) |
| [18:39:20] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: well that's definitely a good question. MKV would definitely be nice. |
| [18:39:23] | stuartm: | Beirdo: the real irony is that if we implemented encoding to H.264 or even mpeg2, the users complaining now about rtjpeg would then be complaining that recording requires more resources than their 10 year old hardware can provide |
| [18:39:41] | devinheitmueller: | stuartm: those users are welcome to not upgrade. |
| [18:39:45] | Beirdo: | stuartm: yeah, they'd have to upgrade from their 700MHz P3 |
| [18:39:59] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: Embarassingly, we adopted NUV for many of the reasons that MKV is now strong-- built in seektables, metadata support, etc. |
| [18:40:08] | Beirdo: | or stay with the current version... |
| [18:40:17] | iamlindoro: | unfortunately we're now considered "upstream" for Nuppelvideo because the world has moved on |
| [18:40:25] | devinheitmueller: | Don't get me wrong – I don't particularly like framegrabbers. but I have to acknowledge that the world is full of them and there are just going to be more of them in the future as vendors continue to cost-reduce. |
| [18:40:30] | Beirdo: | and we want to move on too :) |
| [18:40:35] | iamlindoro: | yes we do |
| [18:40:54] | stuartm: | devinheitmueller: that's my line! I've said that again and again when pushing this train up the hill, it doesn't stop crap raining down from users though |
| [18:41:03] | kormoc: | devinheitmueller, my answer is the user is free to not upgrade myth if newer versions don't support the features they use |
| [18:41:05] | Beirdo: | I think MKV with (pick yer codec)/(pick yer codec) would be a great step forward |
| [18:41:31] | iamlindoro: | I don't even think we really need "pick your codec, IMO" at least outside of *maybe* three choices |
| [18:41:38] | devinheitmueller: | Beirdo: I would generally agree. And if we provided VP8 as an option, then we could provide a patent-free solution. |
| [18:41:39] | Beirdo: | heck, I'd even dig out an old lamegrabber to play |
| [18:41:42] | iamlindoro: | H.264/MPEG-2/ASP at most |
| [18:41:55] | kormoc: | asp? |
| [18:42:05] | Beirdo: | yeah, we don't want to necessarily allow every single codec in ffmpeg :) |
| [18:42:11] | stuartm: | it's taken time just to persuade some devs that we cannot always support ancient hardware and that progress demands that we learn when to let go, but I think we're over that hump now |
| [18:42:40] | ** Beirdo was one that needed some convincing ** | |
| [18:42:46] | Beirdo: | but hey, we move on |
| [18:44:23] | Beirdo: | somewhere I have an old MSI TV@nywhere (totally crappy card) |
| [18:44:26] | stuartm: | a max of three codecs should be enough for anyone and they should be ones which are handled solidly by ffmpeg since we don't want bugs in that code becoming our burden to fix |
| [18:44:27] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, I think the challenge here is that all of the people who can actually do the work already have a hardware encoder, so have no incentive to clean up that old stuff... |
| [18:44:45] | Beirdo: | I *think* I still have an MJPEG encoder too, but it might still be in Canada |
| [18:45:00] | Beirdo: | devinheitmueller: precisely ;) |
| [18:45:16] | Beirdo: | stuartm: yeah, no Indeo5, please! |
| [18:45:27] | devinheitmueller: | Framegrabbers are *dirt cheap*. If somebody really wanted to work on this and that was the issue, I would just mail them a board. |
| [18:45:44] | Beirdo: | yeah, they are cheeeeeep |
| [18:46:16] | Beirdo: | yeah, sorry. NUV supports 3 formats |
| [18:46:26] | Beirdo: | MPEG-4, RTJPEG and MJPEG |
| [18:47:10] | Beirdo: | the MJPEG is mostly ignored :) but it was supported, unless it got ripped out... for the hardware encoder cards from way back |
| [18:49:22] | Beirdo: | I'd have to look up even *which* cards those were, but I know I had one for testing |
| [18:50:18] | Beirdo: | oh yeah |
| [18:50:26] | Beirdo: | Matrox Marvel G400 |
| [18:50:50] | Beirdo: | I don't even have a box that would go into anymore. AGP |
| [18:51:21] | Beirdo: | and the Pinnacle DC?0 series it seems |
| [18:51:54] | devinheitmueller: | Beirdo: the Pinnacle DCx0 series are raw framegrabbers. |
| [18:52:01] | devinheitmueller: | (unless there is some variant I am unfamiliar with) |
| [18:52:24] | devinheitmueller: | All the ones I have seen are Empia em2820 based USB devices that provide raw YUYV video. |
| [18:52:54] | Beirdo: | Hmm, OK. Fair enough :) |
| [18:53:23] | Beirdo: | I know the Matrox G400 did MJPEG, I believe that was the card I got from Captain_Murdoch to test with |
| [18:53:26] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [18:54:24] | Beirdo: | anyways, no great loss if those lose support, really |
| [18:59:24] | Beirdo: | Oh, that reminds me, I wanted to put a webcam in the window, and I keep forgetting. Heh |
| [18:59:55] | Beirdo: | maybe after I rework the devel box (hopefully tonight), I'll remember to hook it up. |
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| [19:12:49] | sphery: | s/patent-free/patent-uncontested-so-far/ |
| [19:13:05] | sphery: | but, yeah, using vp8 would be a good thing |
| [19:13:57] | devinheitmueller: | Hey, if there were a tuner product that could deliver both the original ATSC MPEG2 stream as well as an already-transcoded H.264 stream, would that be desirable? |
| [19:14:12] | devinheitmueller: | It would in theory eliminate the need to transcode for other devices.... |
| [19:14:38] | Beirdo: | I would think that would be quite handy |
| [19:14:42] | sphery: | I'd guess that most of those who transcode also like to remove commercials--so a post-processing transcode option would likely be more useful |
| [19:15:10] | Beirdo: | and we can look at maybe doing the "lossless" transcode for H.264 as well as MPEG2 |
| [19:15:13] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: As neat as it would be, it seems like it would probably be a niche market |
| [19:15:22] | sphery: | i.e. cutting commercials is generally reduces space required to 2/3 original or so--with, in theory, no loss of quality |
| [19:15:56] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: I dunno, the main "good" reason for transcoding is to view on your iPhone, etc. |
| [19:15:59] | devinheitmueller: | Well, the goal here is more oriented around providing a version of the file which can be played on H.264 based uPNP devices, or for example creating versions that can be sent to an iPod. |
| [19:16:09] | Beirdo: | if that work were already done for you, that would be a big plus |
| [19:16:17] | sphery: | I do hope, however, that the industry doesn't move back to frame grabbers as processors get more powerful... I like hardware encoding. |
| [19:16:41] | Beirdo: | sphery: I think it is almost inevitable for cost reasons |
| [19:16:48] | sphery: | agreed... but annoying |
| [19:16:53] | Beirdo: | yup |
| [19:16:58] | devinheitmueller: | So how much extra would you pay for such a product (compared to a device which does not provide such functionality such as an HDHR) |
| [19:17:27] | sphery: | I don't currently transcode anything--nor do I archive anything. I watch and delete. So I'm not a good person to ask. |
| [19:17:36] | ** sphery recuses himself from this poll ** | |
| [19:17:39] | Beirdo: | devinheitmueller: I personally would look at paying up to about double the cost of the original as it's doing double the work |
| [19:17:46] | Beirdo: | but I'm not the average person |
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| [19:17:56] | Beirdo: | and I'll BRB, gotta get more coffee |
| [19:17:57] | iamlindoro: | Beirdo: devinheitmueller: Don't get me wrong, given between the choice between two cards, all other things being equal, I'd pick the one with that option. It's just that when and if I transcode, personally, it's after the fact to take out commercials, and you have a wide variety of devices with a wide variety of needs-- what I want on my iPad isn't the same as what I'd put on my iPhone, etc. |
| [19:18:34] | iamlindoro: | Anyway, not trying to be a naysayer-- to answer the latest question, I don't think it would be worth more than $20–30 max on top of the regular card price |
| [19:18:41] | sphery: | so we need that hardware transcoder that we can run shows through using a nice pretty api that allows us to cut commercials, etc. |
| [19:18:46] | devinheitmueller: | Well, presumably you can cut commercials at relatively low cost without a full transcode. That said, you would be able to dictate what type of device it was being transcoded for (e.g. iPod/iPhone) |
| [19:18:56] | devinheitmueller: | fair enough. |
| [19:19:01] | lwizardl: | what is defined as "regular price" ? |
| [19:19:05] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: Right, but only once, and only on the way out of the card, right? |
| [19:19:15] | lwizardl: | err regular card price |
| [19:19:15] | sphery: | isn't that what Intel put on their Sandy Bridge chips (well, everything except the nice API for us) to prove the "GPU is king" naysayers wrong |
| [19:19:38] | iamlindoro: | versus using it as a transcoding engine that I could make produce my iPad version, my iPod version, my Youtube compliant version, etc. |
| [19:19:43] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: correct – it would only be able to create one transcoded stream and it would arrive in realtime alongside the MPEG2 stream (or you can deliver *just* the transcoded stream if that is desirable) |
| [19:19:48] | sphery: | to prove that CPUs are still relevant and that purpose-specific silicon can be much more efficient than even GPU offload for transcodign |
| [19:20:15] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: It is a neat idea, though. |
| [19:20:27] | devinheitmueller: | Also bear in mind that in many cases you can create H.264 files that will play on both an iPad and an iPod (albeit at a restricted resolution) |
| [19:20:44] | iamlindoro: | sure, but there we're talking about one ecosystem produced by one company |
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| [19:21:34] | iamlindoro: | anyway, don't take any of that as me detracting from the idea-- I am not sure I would use the functionality, but I don't transcode aside from lossless anyway |
| [19:21:37] | iamlindoro: | I do hate commercials :) |
| [19:21:55] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: I don't disagree, but do many people really have a whole bunch of different devices they want to transcode for? I would assume most only have one or maybe two. |
| [19:22:03] | iamlindoro: | list of domains owned by a company |
| [19:22:06] | iamlindoro: | BAH |
| [19:22:12] | iamlindoro: | IRC, you're not google |
| [19:23:05] | iamlindoro: | devinheitmueller: I think that's a safe assumption |
| [19:23:29] | devinheitmueller: | Anyway, just more of a curiosity than anything else. |
| [19:24:22] | devinheitmueller: | The other nice aspect would be that since it's in realtime you won't have to wait for the transcode step to run in order watch it on your Xbox/PSP3/whatever. |
| [19:25:32] | stuartm: | I think there might be a market for such a card, there are always some people who are looking to save HDD space and not everyone uses commercial detection because it's not reliable for them, but assuming we're talking Hauppauge, here their products are already at the high priced end of the market and whether the added cost of H.264 encoding would be considered value for money? |
| [19:25:34] | lwizardl: | ok say i want to start recording like 30 secs of a show using the svideo input when i press R it says "record on demand". and if i press R again it deletes it and says "cancel record on demand" |
| [19:26:04] | lwizardl: | how do i do this for recording a test file to see if it is recording this audio popping noise |
| [19:26:13] | lwizardl: | sounds like popcorn popping |
| [19:26:22] | stuartm: | I'm not the target though, I don't have any portable video devices, I don't own an ipod or iphone etc and I'm not short of disk space |
| [19:26:40] | sphery: | stuartm: no one in the world should be using automatic commercial detection to cut commercials--even here it's not even close to accurate enough |
| [19:26:45] | devinheitmueller: | stuartm: sure, I hear you. The commercial cutting feature would be mutually exclusive of the "deliver in realtime for support by other devices" feature. |
| [19:26:45] | sphery: | (especially in the last few years) |
| [19:26:53] | stuartm: | plus I'm in the UK and so it would be some time before we saw a version for DVB I guess |
| [19:27:00] | sphery: | so those who cut commercials /should/ be using the editor to do it |
| [19:28:16] | stuartm: | sphery: that's probably why I'd not bother 90% of the time, who has the time to manually edit out commercials from all their recordings? I only do it now for the fraction of films/series that I want to keep for a while |
| [19:30:05] | sphery: | stuartm: exactly--same here... HDDs are cheaper than the time it takes to edit recordings. And, since I would /never/ keep any of the logo/ads-on-top-of-video/news ticker/weather alert/... garbage they broadcast in an archive to watch later (if it's good enough to watch later, I buy it on DVD), I see no point at all in transcoding my recordings. |
| [19:30:33] | stuartm: | I think it's an interesting idea, probably more relevant to the US market since we're already getting H.264 OTA here for some channels and in time I'd guess that it will replace mpeg2 entirely |
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| [19:31:12] | sphery: | IMHO, the only good reason to transcode is to allow playback on a constrained device--but I don't use those since their screens are too small and holding them is uncomfortable, and if it's a show I want to watch, I'll watch it when I have a real screen so I can watch it instead of just listening. :) |
| [19:32:13] | ectospasm: | I've noticed a minor issue with subtitles in mythtv v0.24.1-46-g63b8603: when the character on screen stops speaking, the subtitles for their last phrase doesn't clear until the next subtitles come (from another sound/speech). This is especially noticeable when there is a long pause with no other subtitles... |
| [19:32:23] | stuartm: | sphery: right, I don't see the point in watching something on a small screen, getting cramp holding it at the right angle and maybe squeezing out a couple of hours before the batteries run dead |
| [19:33:00] | stuartm: | but I'm clearly not in the majority here, video on portable devices _is_ popular |
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| [19:33:29] | sphery: | Yeah. I'll admit I watch things on my laptop when waiting around at an airport or on a plane, or in the evenings at the hotel, but 15.4" is about as small as I'm willing to go with the screen. |
| [19:34:00] | stuartm: | ectospasm: that could be a bug, but it could also be how the subtitles are signalled – does your tv/stb behave differently? |
| [19:34:19] | sphery: | and even though people claim that the iphone or other phone screens held close to your face are equivalent to a larger screen a bit farther away, who really puts a phone screen 6" from their eyes to watch a show? |
| [19:34:49] | sphery: | ectospasm: there have been several fixes for that type of issue in master |
| [19:35:05] | ectospasm: | stuartm: I don't use the TV tuner (yet) |
| [19:35:18] | dekarl: | devinheitmueller: are you suggesting to extend mythtranscode to use the embedded H.264 encoder chips in later CPU/GPU combos? Sounds cool |
| [19:35:23] | Beirdo: | back |
| [19:35:24] | sphery: | ectospasm: also note that some types of captions/subtitles are better supported than others--for example, ATSC EIA-708 captions aren't well supported, yet |
| [19:35:30] | ectospasm: | sphery: OK. I updated last night, but there was another mythbuntu update today, so I'm applying that. |
| [19:35:35] | sphery: | ectospasm: which subtitles are you using? |
| [19:35:47] | stuartm: | dekarl: no, he's not |
| [19:35:54] | ectospasm: | good question, just whatever is in the English subtitle track on this BD |
| [19:35:55] | devinheitmueller: | dekarl: no, I was suggesting the notion of a tuner product which delivered H.264 alongside whatever the native format is... |
| [19:35:55] | sphery: | ectospasm: the fixes were in master/unstable/development code--not 0.24-fixes |
| [19:36:03] | Beirdo: | I'd think that such a device would be useful for those with the bus/train commutes every day that would like to watch the show they recorded the night before |
| [19:36:07] | ectospasm: | sphery: then I can't use them |
| [19:36:27] | sphery: | ah, I'm guessing that BD captions are still pretty immature--since BD playback is still pretty immature |
| [19:36:40] | sphery: | (on all of *nix, not just MythTV) |
| [19:36:51] | dekarl: | ahh well, sounded very similar but with other hardware. |
| [19:37:06] | ectospasm: | yeah, I haven't done much with subtitles yet. |
| [19:37:44] | iamlindoro: | BD subtitles are actually very mature |
| [19:38:03] | iamlindoro: | And the display and clearing is signaled in ffmpeg, not MythTV |
| [19:38:26] | iamlindoro: | Further, the issue with not handling the clearing in certain BD subtitles is fixed upstream in ffmpeg, and in current master as well |
| [19:39:44] | iamlindoro: | The first handling of PGS subtitles didn't handle clearing at all, which is likely what is in the ffmpeg version found in .24 |
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| [20:17:24] | jams: | wow github is being slow right now |
| [20:17:53] | [R]: | that's what she said |
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| [20:51:13] | tlhiv_laptop: | is there a way to disable bookmarking of videos all together? |
| [20:51:47] | tlhiv_laptop: | when i press "pause" and then unpause it by pressing "play" on my remote, it sets/clears a bookmark instead of playing |
| [20:52:24] | tlhiv_laptop: | perhaps my Play button is mapped to the wrong thing, but i have it mapped to Space |
| [20:52:33] | sphery: | sounds like your remote is sending a space or enter, rather than a P |
| [20:52:45] | sphery: | space = select |
| [20:52:51] | sphery: | p = play |
| [20:52:57] | sphery: | (which is really more of a togglepause) |
| [20:55:15] | tlhiv_laptop: | ok ... i'll do that then |
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| [20:57:44] | tlhiv_laptop: | sphery: what would you use for Pause then? |
| [20:57:57] | tlhiv_laptop: | i was using P for pause |
| [20:57:58] | sphery: | many use p because it's toggle pause |
| [20:58:07] | stuartm: | l = play, p = pause/play iirc |
| [20:58:09] | sphery: | there is a pause that's only pause |
| [20:58:22] | tlhiv_laptop: | ok ... i'll try that then |
| [20:58:41] | stuartm: | it's been years since I setup my bindings though, so I've probably got that wrong |
| [20:59:09] | sphery: | by default it's Ctrl+P for TV Playback|PLAY |
| [20:59:12] | stuartm: | tlhiv_laptop: you can manage the key bindings through mythfrontend and there it describes the actions |
| [20:59:17] | sphery: | and P for TV Playback|Pause |
| [20:59:38] | sphery: | so, stuartm was right--it's a play that's only play |
| [20:59:39] | stuartm: | sphery: ok, that's definitely changed since I first installed mythtv |
| [20:59:54] | sphery: | L is one of the only unused keys left in defalt bindings |
| [21:00:14] | sphery: | note, though, that Ctrl+P only works in TV Playback |
| [21:00:36] | stuartm: | ooh, yeah, I was going to move that to global |
| [21:00:40] | sphery: | most all other contexts use P (like TV Frontend/PLAYBACK, which starts playback from watch recordings, for example) |
| [21:00:58] | stuartm: | since mythmusic, mythvideo and even mythgallery use a play binding |
| [21:01:11] | sphery: | and Music|PLAY and Gallery|PLAY and such |
| [21:01:24] | sphery: | Video|PLAYALT is (the very appropriate) ALT+P |
| [21:01:52] | sphery: | so, basically, I set up my LIRC config to put P for both Play and Pause buttons |
| [21:01:55] | stuartm: | I don't even want to know what PLAYALT actually does |
| [21:02:10] | sphery: | since otherwise, people would hit Play and it wouldn't do anything |
| [21:02:21] | stuartm: | it's going to be one of those WTF? type things |
| [21:02:29] | sphery: | it uses the "would be great to get rid of it" alternative player you've set up |
| [21:02:33] | sphery: | for when Internal doesn't work |
| [21:03:28] | stuartm: | well I was right :) |
| [21:03:29] | sphery: | tlhiv_laptop: so, did we confuse you sufficiently? |
| [21:03:56] | stuartm: | tlhiv_laptop: oops, yeah ignore us, we're off at a tangent |
| [21:04:33] | sphery: | short story, I use P = Pause and P = Play. If you use Ctrl+P = Play and P = Pause, the Play button will be mostly useless throughout MythTV and only really useful when actually playing video |
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| [21:09:52] | tlhiv_laptop: | excellent ... thank you |
| [21:10:52] | tlhiv_laptop: | wagnerrp is probably still dumbfounded that i'm using MythTV without using the DVR features ;) |
| [21:11:14] | wagnerrp: | youre not? |
| [21:11:23] | wagnerrp: | we support bookmarking in mythvideo? |
| [21:12:15] | tlhiv_laptop: | wagnerrp: i use it to play music, play divx files, and show pictures |
| [21:12:50] | tlhiv_laptop: | i already have a DVR with my cable provider ;) |
| [21:13:02] | wagnerrp: | but you were asking about bookmarking |
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| [21:13:10] | wagnerrp: | i didnt think that was even an option with mythvideo |
| [21:13:17] | tlhiv_laptop: | evidently |
| [21:15:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | mythvideo will store the last position of a DVD ISO if you exit it, and optionally resume at that bookmark, so I think so... /me checks if it works for an .mpg file... |
| [21:16:20] | J-e-f-f-A: | Yes, works with mpg videos too. |
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| [21:34:44] | stuartm: | well as J-e-f-f-A said, we do support bookmarking in mythvideo, different table but otherwise it's functionally identical |
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| [21:36:27] | wagnerrp: | yeah, videomarkup vs. recordedmarkup |
| [21:36:41] | wagnerrp: | i new we supported seek tables, but i didnt know bookmarking was hooked up |
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| [21:53:32] | skd5aner: | yea bookmarkings been there for a while now |
| [21:53:38] | skd5aner: | (in videos) |
| [21:54:26] | skd5aner: | in fact, there was a problem a few revisions ago where bookmarks in video actually caused serious issues – I can't remember exactly what the issue was, maybe segfaults, so I had to disable them for a while until it was fixed |
| [21:54:39] | skd5aner: | s/revisions/releases |
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| [21:57:44] | eddytv: | I configured my bindings to send "Play" for Play and not "PlayPause", because when playing, I was hoping hitting Play again would display the progress meter and then fade it away after a second to make it easy to check how far along you were |
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| [21:58:14] | eddytv: | That is how TiVo works, so I miss that behavior |
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| [22:00:31] | eddytv: | I'm always wondering "how much time is left?" and hitting Play while playing made it easy to see with only a minor "disturbance" to others watching |
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| [22:15:13] | sphery: | eddytv: INFO (I) is used to bring up the OSD info during playback. Currently doesn't work when paused, but I may add that back, eventually. |
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| [22:15:54] | eddytv: | Right, and I was hoping for a PlayInfo "key" but there isn't one, just Play and PlayPause. |
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| [22:18:46] | skd5aner: | playinfo key? |
| [22:18:55] | skd5aner: | wow would that be different from "info"? |
| [22:19:10] | wagnerrp: | it would be the second page shown by info |
| [22:19:12] | skd5aner: | the OSD would show current playback status and location |
| [22:19:16] | wagnerrp: | one key press shows show info |
| [22:19:25] | wagnerrp: | another keypress shows status and timeline |
| [22:19:42] | wagnerrp: | playino would go straight to the timeline |
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| [23:15:00] | ** wagnerrp squashes more dreams on the mythtv-talk forum ** | |
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| [23:16:36] | iamlindoro: | YAY, I want to see! |
| [23:17:05] | wagnerrp: | http://www.mythtvtalk.com/feasibility-hdhomer . . . 010-a-14925/ |
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| [23:20:27] | wagnerrp: | sphery: according to benchmarks, the sandybridge stuff should be roughly comparable to the ION stuff |
| [23:20:57] | sphery: | well, should be and what the drivers can do are 2 very different things :) |
| [23:21:07] | wagnerrp: | true enough |
| [23:21:12] | sphery: | besides, my GF7800GTX + nvidia drivers couldn't do more than 1x with opengl |
| [23:21:23] | sphery: | it's definitely not our most efficient video renderer |
| [23:21:38] | sphery: | (now, if we could drop some of the others and focus efforts on it...) |
| [23:21:59] | stuartm: | sphery: is that before or after Mark re-wrote it? |
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| [23:22:02] | sphery: | Isn't the ION stuff like an 8200 or so? If so, it's probably quite a bit less than the GT220 |
| [23:22:08] | sphery: | stuartm: with 0.24-fixes |
| [23:22:20] | wagnerrp: | 9400M and GT218M |
| [23:22:33] | wagnerrp: | considerably more than an 8200, considerably less than a GT220 |
| [23:22:34] | sphery: | ah, so closer to GT220 than to GF7800... |
| [23:23:05] | sphery: | I have no experience with any cards between the 7800 and 220 |
| [23:23:07] | wagnerrp: | i dare say a 7800GTX is more powerful than a GT220 |
| [23:23:09] | sphery: | so couldn't say there |
| [23:23:56] | sphery: | heh, well, if so, it's limited by something else--like maybe memory bandwidth or something |
| [23:24:07] | sphery: | it definitely couldn't do smooth playback at > 1x |
| [23:24:14] | sphery: | of HDTV, that is |
| [23:24:20] | stuartm: | the 8200 is surprisingly well spec'd for vdpau, has capabilities that many higher numbered chipsets and some of the first gen ION lacked |
| [23:24:25] | sphery: | with SDTV I think I could do up to 1.5x or so |
| [23:24:42] | wagnerrp: | 32GBps vs. 25.3GBps |
| [23:24:48] | wagnerrp: | 7800 is still the winner |
| [23:24:49] | sphery: | I routinely did 1.75x with Xv on the 7200 and 7800GTX (and could have done 2x, but it was too fast to keep up with ) |
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| [23:24:52] | stuartm: | but in terms of general video processing power, it's a lightweight |
| [23:25:20] | sphery: | but it couldn't do > 1x with OpenGL and nvidia drivers |
| [23:25:34] | stuartm: | still my two 8200s perform very well as HD frontends |
| [23:25:42] | sphery: | stuartm: so markk's rewrite was post 0.24, right? might have just been that our code was too inefficient |
| [23:25:58] | stuartm: | sphery: I have no idea whether it came before or after the release |
| [23:26:05] | sphery: | (though I still can't explain why my GT220 works fine for OpenGL and timestretch, but the 7800GTX didn't) |
| [23:26:37] | wagnerrp: | in terms of fillrate, the 7800 should still edge out over the 220 |
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