Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, June 29th, 2011, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:18]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: pushed

[00:02:01]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: s/libmythtv/libmythbase/, yeah?

[00:02:08]

iamlindoro:

(in the commit)

[00:02:12]

iamlindoro:

(message)

[00:02:35]

Beirdo:

#9811... What is his problem?

[00:03:18]

Beirdo:

did I miss something there?

[00:03:42]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: 9811 is closed as a dupe, what about it?

[00:03:52]

Beirdo:

sorry, mistype

[00:03:54]

Beirdo:

#9881

[00:03:58]

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[00:04:09]

Beirdo:

I shall go get coffee, my brain needs it, BRB

[00:06:32]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you mind doublechecking that one?

[00:06:53]

Beirdo:

I may have gotten the args wrong

[00:06:55]

iamlindoro:

Aside from the thing he claims, the patch also changes the command line argument

[00:07:08]

iamlindoro:

grabdbparameters versus getdbparameters

[00:07:14]

iamlindoro:

only one is likely to be right

[00:07:44]

iamlindoro:

I suspect getdbparameters is the right one, which is what his patch changes it back to

[00:07:55]

Beirdo:

Adding --getdbparameters as taking type 'bool'

[00:07:58]

iamlindoro:

perhaps grab was a manual transcription when converting it,?

[00:08:04]

iamlindoro:

no

[00:08:19]

iamlindoro:

he's correcting the command line string, too

[00:08:30]

Beirdo:

Adding --outfile as taking type 'bool'

[00:08:34]

Beirdo:

blast

[00:08:52]

iamlindoro:

he removes "grabdbparameters" and replaces it with "getdbparameters"... get is probably right, given how all the others match their variable names

[00:08:57]

Beirdo:

yeah

[00:09:27]

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[00:09:29]

Beirdo:

that was likely a typo. The outfile one is likely due to the funky way add() works, I probably missed an argument?

[00:09:53]

Beirdo:

we don't need QString() though, AFAIK

[00:11:48]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i moved it to libmythbase

[00:11:55]

wagnerrp:

the error is just in the commit message

[00:12:00]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yeah, just noting that doesn't match the message

[00:12:08]

iamlindoro:

(FYI, in case anyone flips out)

[00:15:06]

wagnerrp:

i dont know why he would need to convert the "" to QString()

[00:15:25]

sphery:

yeah, to me, it looks like only the final hunk (like 40/41) is important

[00:15:29]

iamlindoro:

yep

[00:15:47]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: turn on verbose_parser, and check. it's showing up as a bool

[00:16:00]

iamlindoro:

Even if it were put into QVariant as a char, char to QString anywhere is automatic/free

[00:16:01]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it's something simple

[00:16:14]

Beirdo:

thumblist shows as QString

[00:16:27]

Beirdo:

infile, outfile show bool

[00:16:36]

Beirdo:

and ifofile

[00:16:49]

Beirdo:

it must be something ... odd.

[00:17:00]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: hrm? The fix is the last hunk of the patch

[00:17:11]

iamlindoro:

or is there more broken after?

[00:17:25]

Beirdo:

there's more than that

[00:17:28]

iamlindoro:

ah, ok

[00:17:30]

iamlindoro:

sorry then ;)

[00:17:52]

Beirdo:

it's complaining that infile/outfile are taking boolean rather than QString

[00:17:59]

Beirdo:

which is odd

[00:18:00]

sphery:

--infile/--outfile use the 7-arg add() and --thumblist uses a 6-arg add() ?

[00:18:08]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: look at MythCommandLineParser::addGeometry()

[00:18:15]

wagnerrp:

those are added in the same manner, and operate properly

[00:18:44]

sphery:

ah, no, all are 5-arg

[00:18:51]

Beirdo:

thumblist is working

[00:18:56]

Beirdo:

outfile is not

[00:18:58]

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[00:19:05]

Beirdo:

ARGH

[00:19:11]

Beirdo:

outfile is 4 args.

[00:19:14]

Beirdo:

I missed a ,

[00:19:32]

wagnerrp:

right, you are adding it as a boolean

[00:19:49]

Beirdo:

the "" was supposed to have a , after it on the first line

[00:19:50]

Beirdo:

OK

[00:19:57]

Beirdo:

I'll take this one :)

[00:19:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:20:12]

sphery:

ah, yeah, missing , at the end of the line on in/out

[00:20:13]

wagnerrp:

same with --infile

[00:20:20]

Beirdo:

yup and ifofile

[00:20:22]

wagnerrp:

likely he saw it once, and assumed the problem existed in all cases

[00:20:28]

Beirdo:

cut and paste is a PITA

[00:20:34]

sphery:

nice spot

[00:20:52]

sphery:

was hard to see

[00:21:30]

Beirdo:

took me like 3 runs through it before I finally saw what was written, not what it was supposed to be

[00:21:33]

Beirdo:

dang.

[00:22:02]

Beirdo:

Adding --outfile as taking type 'QString'

[00:22:05]

Beirdo:

success

[00:22:08]

Beirdo:

stupid , ;)

[00:22:38]

sphery:

this is why no-operator string concat is evil

[00:23:01]

** sphery wonders if google avoids C because of this **

[00:23:04]

Beirdo:

yeah, but it's "good" as it saves a lot of runtime

[00:23:09]

wagnerrp:

and possibly why we should take out the 4-operator add

[00:23:23]

wagnerrp:

make booleans explicitly defined

[00:23:30]

Beirdo:

and force us to put true or false, yeah

[00:23:53]

sphery:

that sounds like a good idea

[00:23:57]

wagnerrp:

ill do that now

[00:24:09]

wagnerrp:

(and bump the ABI again)

[00:25:47]

Beirdo:

OK, fix is in for #9881

[00:25:57]

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[00:49:47]

wagnerrp:

i really dislike it when people use 'mythtv' or variations on that for their name on the mailing list

[00:50:12]

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[00:50:58]

wagnerrp:

you want to do that for spam control? feel free, but give a proper name to your account

[00:51:10]

wagnerrp:

same thing with people who just have a first name

[00:51:31]

wagnerrp:

like Aaron, just isnt that rare of a first name for that to be your only identification as a sender

[00:51:56]

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[00:52:45]

wagnerrp:

now something zuriel? ok... thats screwy enough that im ok with that

[00:54:24]

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[00:54:34]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: heres another one... mythcommflag --lineupid

[00:54:48]

wagnerrp:

there was no comma, so the integer was being taken as a boolean

[00:55:13]

wagnerrp:

actually, that doesnt make sense

[00:56:34]

Beirdo:

eww

[00:56:53]

wagnerrp:

and mythtranscode --ostream

[00:58:22]

sqiush102:

i know the following question is not a mythtv, but maybe someone could give me a simple, it can or cannot be done:

[00:58:29]

sqiush102:

raid-1: i have 2tb drive with 2 partitions and a LVM. I bought a 2nd 2tb drive now. Can I get raid1 going with no additional disk?

[00:58:51]

wagnerrp:

probably

[00:58:58]

sqiush102:

im worried my recordings will get lost so i want software raid

[00:59:34]

sqiush102:

from the googling i have done, looks like you have o set up raid on empty drives

[01:00:14]

sqiush102:

i would like to try convert my one drive to raid, and then add the new disk to the raid and get it to sync

[01:00:37]

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[01:01:11]

wagnerrp:

i havent used LVM in almost five years

[01:02:00]

wagnerrp:

last time i used it, it resulted in the loss of many Nash Bridges recordings

[01:02:07]

wagnerrp:

would not use again

[01:02:39]

sqiush102:

i used it quite nicely. especially when my small drives filled up, i could add another and just extend lvm onto it

[01:02:49]

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[01:03:08]

wagnerrp:

and if ANY of those drives die, you lose everything

[01:03:35]

wagnerrp:

its all the harm of RAID0, with none of the benefit

[01:03:40]

sqiush102:

yip, that is why i got one 2tb and moved everything onto it. but one drive is not safe

[01:03:56]

wagnerrp:

its much safer than a bunch of spanned drives

[01:04:08]

Valen:

got a slightly odd one for you, just did my updates on a mythbuntu 11.04 install, and now when i go to watch a recording it segfaults, so I try mythfrontend -v all and it works, -v playback and it segfaults again

[01:04:31]

wagnerrp:

Valen: that indicates some race condition

[01:04:39]

Valen:

thats what i figured

[01:04:55]

Valen:

same result with vdpau and cpu slim

[01:05:17]

Valen:

on a zotac ion (atom 330) motherboard

[01:06:17]

Valen:

kinda lost as to where to go from here

[01:06:20]

sphery:

try running without any -v args (use default of important,general)

[01:06:31]

Valen:

without any -v it crashes

[01:07:03]

sphery:

then it sounds like you need to keep using too much logging to keep the timing working

[01:07:12]

Valen:

it does rather

[01:07:25]

Valen:

other than | /dev/null any suggestions?

[01:07:54]

Valen:

I take it its not a known bug

[01:08:20]

wagnerrp:

find your core dump, get a traceback

[01:08:49]

** Valen doubts his abilities to use said trace **

[01:08:56]

Valen:

but i'll give it a go

[01:09:06]

Valen:

where would i find the dump?

[01:09:18]

wagnerrp:

dont know

[01:09:36]

wagnerrp:

often your user's home directory, or the current directory you ran mythfrontend from

[01:09:52]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo, sphery: 4-arg add() is now removed

[01:10:28]

Valen:

nope nothing there

[01:10:29]

Beirdo:

cool. That should keep us from putting more bullet-holes in our feet

[01:10:45]

wagnerrp:

you know, my great grandfather did that once

[01:10:56]

Valen:

's not benifical to the health as a rule

[01:13:21]

Valen:

i don't believe myth is dumping the core anyhere

[01:13:33]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you got five minutes?

[01:14:14]

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[01:14:17]

Beirdo:

sure. just writing a very heated email to my manager :)

[01:14:22]

sphery:

Valen: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging

[01:14:33]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Nuvscan

[01:14:35]

wagnerrp:

:P

[01:14:39]

sphery:

Valen: see the section on core files

[01:14:50]

Beirdo:

hahah

[01:14:59]

Beirdo:

OK, I'll resurrect that utility if you want

[01:15:14]

wagnerrp:

nah, i was considering just deleting it

[01:15:20]

Beirdo:

I still have the old svn repo, AFAIK, and can put it on github

[01:15:21]

wagnerrp:

its so old, it was from the old wiki

[01:15:24]

Beirdo:

aye

[01:15:32]

Beirdo:

feel free to delete it

[01:15:37]

Valen:

sphery: but if i don't have a debugging version installed would that do anything

[01:16:27]

wagnerrp:

Valen: mythbuntu uses debug versions specifically to aid in producing these backtraces

[01:16:34]

Valen:

nifty

[01:16:44]

Valen:

i'll give it a burl

[01:16:54]

Valen:

though perhaps tomorrow

[01:17:03]

sphery:

Valen: did you compile yourself or are you using packages?

[01:17:06]

Valen:

WAF demands trying > /dev/null first ;->

[01:17:08]

Valen:

packages

[01:17:20]

sphery:

Valen: if packages, you can just install the debug package either before or after getting the core dump

[01:17:34]

Valen:

though now you mention it i'm not sure if they are ubuntu or avenard

[01:17:37]

sphery:

just make sure if you install it after that it doesn't upgrade your mythtv version in the process

[01:17:48]

Valen:

that guy needs an easier to spell name

[01:17:53]

sphery:

heh

[01:18:07]

sphery:

might be easy for a French speaker?

[01:18:21]

sphery:

I don't know if he has debug packages for MythTV, but it's worth a look

[01:18:43]

Valen:

his repos are disabled by the upgrade to mavric

[01:18:59]

Valen:

I'm thinking i may just try re-enabling them see if it solves the problem

[01:21:36]

tgm4883:

IIRC the avernard repos use the same packaging technique as the mythbuntu repos, he just adds different patches

[01:21:45]

tgm4883:

so you probably need to install the -dbg packages

[01:22:08]

Valen:

my gut feeling is changing anything much has a decent chance of fixing it anyway

[01:23:50]

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[01:28:33]

sqiush102:

wagnerrp sometimes i miss the obvious... add the new drive, set it up as disk 1 of the raid. Move the stuff over from the old drive, then clear the drive and add to the array!

[01:28:38]

wagnerrp:

sphery: this is interesting... http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2011/06/swiffy . . . o-html5.html

[01:28:50]

wagnerrp:

that should work

[01:28:59]

Valen:

sqiush102: what are you trying to do?

[01:29:21]

sqiush102:

raid-1: i have 2tb drive with 2 partitions and a LVM. I bought a 2nd 2tb drive now. Can I get raid1 going with no additional disk?

[01:29:38]

Valen:

yeah that should work

[01:29:46]

Valen:

though raid 1 for myth is a bit much ;->

[01:30:09]

Valen:

it'll start off degraded anyway so your not loosing much really

[01:30:10]

sqiush102:

i have 2tb of important stuff recorded for wife. she will kill me

[01:30:18]

Valen:

lol

[01:30:31]

sqiush102:

and now that it is all in HD, 8gig per hour

[01:30:35]

Valen:

theres your cost/benefit analysis right there

[01:30:42]

sqiush102:

haha

[01:31:03]

wagnerrp:

$60 is a small price to pay for continued existence

[01:31:35]

sqiush102:

yip, i am a little worried about the hitachi drives for $60

[01:31:40]

Valen:

2tb = $60? man i'm getting ripped

[01:31:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, as long as they don't try to push video with it :)

[01:31:56]

Valen:

they are $100 here and our dollar is 1.1 $us

[01:32:01]

sqiush102:

hence the need for raid1

[01:32:56]

Valen:

I wonder if its worth doing that slightly non standard raid 1 whereby you get 2x read rate

[01:33:12]

Valen:

normal mdadm is optimised for concurrent reads, not read speed

[01:34:26]

wagnerrp:

you mean raid1?

[01:34:55]

Valen:

yeah mdadm raid 1 by default the read speed of a large file = that of one disk

[01:34:58]

Valen:

the other disk will be idle

[01:35:08]

Valen:

if you read a second stream it'll come off the other disk

[01:35:14]

wagnerrp:

that seems rather wasteful

[01:35:39]

Valen:

depends on your read workload

[01:35:52]

wagnerrp:

not really

[01:35:54]

Valen:

if you are reading a bunch of small files it works well reducing the seeking

[01:36:07]

clever_:

sounds more like a defect in the kernel handling, rather then the userspace tools

[01:36:08]

wagnerrp:

if youre only reading one stream, theres no reason not to stagger the reads across both drives

[01:36:27]

Valen:

it is an option, whats lacking is the ability to change modes on the fly

[01:36:27]

wagnerrp:

if youre reading multiple streams, then let the drives operate independently

[01:37:08]

clever_:

id think the kernel readahead buffer would need to be large enough to efficiently split it between disks

[01:38:06]

Valen:

depends again on the workload

[01:38:24]

Valen:

if your running a mail server it may not be desired at all

[01:38:38]

Valen:

but yes, an automagic mode switch on the fly would be nice

[01:38:40]

clever_:

yeah, it could slow it down

[01:38:46]

Valen:

theres lots of writing about it (kinda)

[01:38:56]

clever_:

this is where i think madvise() can come in handy

[01:39:10]

clever_:

inform the kernel about wether a file is seq or random mode, and then let the kernel adapt

[01:39:13]

Valen:

since myth is dealing with large files all the time I'm thinking the boosted read speed would be better

[01:39:36]

Valen:

as all writes need to happen on both disks anyway, it'd reduce the disk utalisation on average

[01:40:02]

Valen:

oh sqiush102 how old is your install?

[01:40:06]

clever_:

madvise is mmap() based though, so it then leads the potential problems when the file is deleted while open

[01:42:14]

Valen:

because you may wish to watch for things like sector alignment etc

[01:42:29]

sqiush102:

Valen about 1.5 years

[01:42:41]

Valen:

yeah, don't dd your stuff over

[01:42:53]

Valen:

make new file systems on the drives and copy everything in

[01:42:55]

sqiush102:

and it is sooooo stable and running well, i'm a little scared to touch it

[01:44:03]

sqiush102:

ok, thanks, I'll do that. I think I have to do that anyway for the LVM

[01:44:31]

** sqiush102 still have to read up on LZVM's and raid1 **

[01:44:44]

Valen:

you will need to munge fstab or change the uuids too

[01:44:58]

** Valen is scared about 3tb drives and needing guidpartion tables and such **

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[01:45:26]

clever_:

if i ever did dd a uuid sensitive filesystem, id format the source (or never connect it at the same time as dest)

[01:45:51]

Valen:

you can dd it over ok I've done it plenty of times

[01:46:11]

clever_:

ive heard of some trouble mounting it later if the uuid was duplicated within the system

[01:46:12]

Valen:

though mounting it may be interesting

[01:46:17]

clever_:

yeah

[01:46:30]

clever_:

and dd would copy the fragmentation over too, so thats not a good idea

[01:46:31]

Valen:

boot from livecd, dd from to reboot on to works

[01:46:52]

Valen:

eh its simple and it works, its got allot going for it from my POV lol

[01:46:53]

clever_:

my worth myth recording is in ~1200 fragments

[01:47:04]

Valen:

i should probably look into it

[01:47:10]

clever_:

worst*

[01:47:18]

clever_:

filefrag is your friend when finding fragmented files

[01:47:43]

Valen:

but i use xfs and there is some mojo you can do to tell it that your going to stick large files onto it

[01:47:56]

Valen:

reduces fragmentation

[01:48:05]

clever_:

ive tried that, and it didnt really work for me

[01:48:19]

clever_:

and it doesnt exactly reduce fragmentation, it just forces it to use larger fragments

[01:49:14]

clever_:

i dont store small files on the disk anyways, so id probly be better off just increasing the global block size

[01:49:45]

Valen:

i set it to 128Mb, the xfs thing

[01:50:03]

clever_:

dang thats big

[01:50:18]

Valen:

in comparison to a bunch of 8gb files?

[01:50:21]

clever_:

but yeah, that would force most of my recordings to be under 10 fragments

[01:50:29]

clever_:

mine top out at 1gig most of the time

[01:50:37]

Valen:

mpeg2 ftw here ;->

[01:50:52]

clever_:

no hd capture, and the firewire is only good for channel changing

[01:51:00]

clever_:

pvr-150 still

[01:51:02]

rich0:

Quick question – my frontend is an old M10000 ITX system, and is being deprecated (plus is SD-only). I'm looking for a cheap and practical replacement. Is an ION+Atom 330 system a wise choice (would be really easy to swap out the board)? Not sure how well it works with oddball codecs/etc, mythtv support, being reasonably future-proof, etc.

[01:51:21]

Valen:

i'm going through the same thing now rich0

[01:51:28]

rich0:

Would probably just use minimyth on it.

[01:51:30]

Valen:

i have a zotac ion 330 system and it works well

[01:51:34]

Valen:

its also my pbx

[01:51:41]

wagnerrp:

rich0: it works better with oddball codecs than your VIA

[01:51:50]

clever_:

my current frontend is just an old half-dead laptop

[01:51:51]

Valen:

and my firewall ;->

[01:51:55]

wagnerrp:

but as always, relying on hardware decoding is inherently limiting

[01:52:05]

rich0:

True, but the VIA is only doing SD. It doesn't handle anything HD even remotely on any codec...

[01:52:16]

Valen:

I'd suggest if you want atom to get the jetway ion2 board it has 4x sata connectors

[01:52:27]

Valen:

the other ion2 boards have only got 2 sata connectors :-<

[01:52:34]

wagnerrp:

Valen: this is a dedicated frontend, no drives needed

[01:52:49]

Valen:

not even optical?

[01:52:55]

rich0:

Not sure I'll use any of the sata connectors – current system has no durable media except the BIOS and CMOS. :)

[01:53:11]

rich0:

But thanks for the tip just the same.

[01:53:14]

wagnerrp:

and the boot ROM

[01:53:15]

Valen:

but yeah i believe it should be able to run advanced 2x decoding on HD

[01:53:30]

Valen:

personally I'm seriously looking at trying for a low power core I3 build

[01:53:40]

Valen:

the up front cost is looking similar

[01:53:56]

wagnerrp:

no, the ION2 does not have enough grunt to do advanced 2x on 1920x1080i30 content

[01:53:59]

Valen:

and the power budgets seem to be not outrageously different

[01:54:00]

rich0:

Yeah, I'm going to check my options – micro-ATX may make as much sense.

[01:54:09]

wagnerrp:

Valen: but you might get by with your 1080i25 content

[01:54:25]

wagnerrp:

its close, but not quite there

[01:54:32]

Valen:

wagnerrp: bugger, the ion1 i have seems to almost do 1080i50

[01:54:49]

wagnerrp:

the ION2 is not significantly faster than the ION1

[01:54:54]

wagnerrp:

maybe 20–30% better

[01:55:03]

Valen:

thats about what it seemed to be missing out by lol

[01:55:15]

rich0:

Does advanced 2x make much difference?

[01:55:17]

Valen:

I'm thinking a 430 for the desktop system

[01:55:43]

Valen:

though the intel acceleration stuff seems to actually be getting close to working now

[01:56:03]

wagnerrp:

Valen: VAAPI is now supported in trunk, and tested on the intel hardware

[01:56:15]

wagnerrp:

but an i3 should have plenty of power to handle any content you throw at it anyway

[01:56:19]

wagnerrp:

at least a desktop i3

[01:56:30]

Valen:

I just really like the vdpau on my ion lol

[01:56:36]

Valen:

5% cpu use ftw ;->

[01:56:39]

wagnerrp:

mobile i3s may not be sufficiently fast for bluray content

[01:56:59]

rich0:

Concern with a desktop CPU would be heat/noise/etc...

[01:57:06]

Valen:

has the status of the blueray playing in linux gotten better?

[01:57:24]

Valen:

http://www.eyo.com.au/270912_intel-i3-2100t-2 . . . i32100t.html is the cpu i was looking at

[01:57:26]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has been able to play the m2ts files off bluray for several revisions

[01:57:39]

Valen:

i mean getting the files off the blueray

[01:57:44]

Valen:

the copy protection crap

[01:57:48]

wagnerrp:

2.5Ghz is on the lower end, but should be sufficient for any bluray content

[01:58:11]

wagnerrp:

there has been no real improvement for the past year and a half

[01:58:17]

Valen:

I was thinking of putting a nvidia 430 in it for hardware decoding

[01:58:22]

wagnerrp:

but any AACS content prior to then can be played directly

[01:58:23]

Valen:

mainly because I like that

[01:59:27]

Valen:

and that should be able to do advanced 3x

[01:59:29]

Valen:

2x

[02:00:44]

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[02:05:38]

Valen:

are BD's turining up on teh torrentz these days?

[02:05:53]

Valen:

so i can play stuff I'd consider buying

[02:06:08]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[02:06:39]

wagnerrp:

you play stuff by buying it, ripping it, and stuffing it into the Videos directory

[02:06:40]

Valen:

are the m2ts files off blueray disks turning up on say torrent sites

[02:06:53]

Valen:

yes but if you cant rip it because of the copy protection

[02:06:58]

wagnerrp:

why would it matter, you have the m2ts file right on your disk

[02:07:13]

wagnerrp:

get anydvdhd or makemkv to remove the copy protection

[02:07:44]

Valen:

so windows only for ripping bd then?

[02:08:09]

wagnerrp:

or windows in a VM

[02:08:17]

Valen:

and costing moneys

[02:08:19]

wagnerrp:

or linux for any content newer than late 2009

[02:08:28]

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[02:08:38]

Valen:

do they work with all the "latest titles"?

[02:08:57]

wagnerrp:

at least anydvd is updated nearly weekly

[02:09:16]

wagnerrp:

and the cost of the program is not much compared to the cost of a large bluray library

[02:09:32]

Valen:

my blueray library consists of 1 disk thus far

[02:09:51]

Valen:

I prefer to rent movies than buy them anyway, i don't often want to watch a movie twice

[02:10:34]

Valen:

oh thats the other downside to atom for mythfront/back/homeserver no hardware virtualisation support

[02:13:25]

Valen:

lol anydvdhd costs $40 more than my bd drive

[02:13:54]

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[02:54:58]

wagnerrp:

Valen: when i bought mine, anydvd was $40 less

[02:55:20]

Valen:

bd drives gone down or anydvd up?

[02:55:33]

wagnerrp:

both

[02:56:12]

wagnerrp:

i picked it up a couple years ago, just before they moved to a subscription model

[02:56:33]

wagnerrp:

when they went to a subscription model, the lifetime subscription became significantly more expensive

[02:56:56]

Valen:

nasty

[02:58:05]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt say that

[02:58:26]

markk:

makemkv is still free, works on linux and will 'backup' the file structure (i.e. it doesn't just rip to matroska)

[02:58:35]

wagnerrp:

the issue is that both BD+ and AACS support revocable keys

[02:58:43]

wagnerrp:

so breaking it once isnt sufficient

[02:58:58]

wagnerrp:

you need to continue working to release updates for new keys and VMs

[02:59:06]

wagnerrp:

continued effort means a subscription model

[02:59:22]

wagnerrp:

and makemkv is not free

[02:59:29]

wagnerrp:

they charge for the version that can handle bluray

[02:59:49]

Valen:

yeah i get that

[02:59:54]

Valen:

it just shits me that its needed

[02:59:57]

Valen:

its my damn disk

[03:00:12]

wagnerrp:

please watch the language in this channel

[03:00:13]

Valen:

why should i go through all that, when i could just torrent it

[03:00:24]

wagnerrp:

because torrents are illegal

[03:00:50]

Valen:

so should copy protection be

[03:01:01]

Valen:

breaking copy protection is also illegal

[03:01:15]

wagnerrp:

no its not

[03:01:30]

Valen:

dcma says so at least in USA and i think australia (where i am)

[03:01:38]

wagnerrp:

there are clauses in the DMCA allow breaking it for compatibility

[03:01:41]

Valen:

dmca or whatever it is

[03:01:51]

wagnerrp:

distribution of the software to break decryption is illegal

[03:02:03]

wagnerrp:

which is why anydvd distributes from some banana republic with no such laws

[03:04:40]

markk:

makemkv is free for dvd and bluray – currently (i.e. while it's still in 'beta')

[03:05:10]

wagnerrp:

thats changed since the last time i checked

[03:05:22]

wagnerrp:

bluray was only supported in the beta, and they charged for beta access

[03:05:32]

Valen:

markk: does it work with all recent disks?

[03:06:55]

markk:

I've not had any issues with it. Once installed, you need to go to the forums – there is a sticky post somewhere with the latest beta key, which usually lasts a month at a time.

[03:07:09]

Valen:

hmm interesting

[03:07:29]

Valen:

and your using it with recent media, well its probably worth a try next time i'm at the video store

[03:17:38]

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[03:47:27]

Twiggy2cents:

woo hoo I have cable internet now!

[03:48:20]

wagnerrp:

as oppposed to?

[03:48:58]

Valen:

wagnerrp: mah myth works now

[03:49:07]

Valen:

looks like natty upgrade disabled avenards repo

[03:49:16]

Valen:

re-enable that, do updates all works

[03:50:19]

wagnerrp:

good to hear

[03:50:30]

Twiggy2cents:

Is hulu for myth considered to have issues? How do I do full screen and control volume?

[03:50:33]

wagnerrp:

wonder what was causing the problems though

[03:50:44]

Valen:

i'm putting it down to bad juju

[03:50:44]

Twiggy2cents:

wagnerrp, I had virgin mobile broadband2go 3g

[03:50:54]

Valen:

ooh virgin internet is crappy

[03:50:54]

wagnerrp:

eewwwwww

[03:50:57]

Valen:

i know i have it

[03:51:04]

Valen:

at least in australia

[03:51:07]

Valen:

for my phone

[03:51:23]

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[03:51:57]

Twiggy2cents:

Yeah sprint has some HORRIBLE qos on virgin mobiles broadband

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[05:22:59]

jkn:

I have a haupauge hvr 4000 can anyone tell me what distro is best, i have been trying with mythbuntu

[05:25:25]

Sulx:

what ever floats your boat

[05:26:07]

wagnerrp:

Water Displacement Linux?

[05:26:15]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:26:54]

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[05:29:27]

Beirdo:

2011-06–28 22:28:56.054892 I eia-708 decoding error...

[05:29:30]

jkn:

be nice please, i am not an hardcore linux user. should i try debian or gentoo? or other?

[05:29:39]

Beirdo:

ahhh, much better than spewed to stderr

[05:31:13]

Sulx:

jkn: mythbuntu is fine...I prefer arch

[05:33:04]

jkn:

ubuntu dont support dvbt scan, i will try arch then

[05:33:29]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt use any external scan tools

[05:33:50]

wagnerrp:

there will be no difference between ubuntu and arch with regards to scanning in mythtv

[05:34:37]

jkn:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Talk:Hauppauge_HVR-4000

[05:34:47]

jkn:

thats why i am asking

[05:37:29]

wagnerrp:

that was also a full three ubuntu releases ago

[05:37:52]

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[05:39:03]

jkn:

yes but it still dont work

[05:39:09]

wagnerrp:

fixed

[05:39:23]

jkn:

not in 11.04

[05:39:36]

wagnerrp:

as in... i fixed that page

[05:39:53]

wagnerrp:

we dont support tuner cards, which is why the page in question was deleted

[05:40:02]

wagnerrp:

however the talk page was not, leaving it orphaned

[05:41:39]

wagnerrp:

you may want to check this... http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppau . . . 000#Firmware

[05:42:05]

wagnerrp:

the page was deleted from our wiki because it was outdated, incorrect, and in the wrong place

[05:42:23]

wagnerrp:

the correct place is the linuxtv wiki, the project that actually develops the drivers

[05:43:53]

jkn:

and if you look there you will see mythtv can not scan dvbt

[05:44:06]

iamlindoro:

Yes, it most certainly can

[05:44:18]

jkn:

how...

[05:44:31]

iamlindoro:

By configuring both the device and the software properly

[05:47:25]

jkn:

i have tried to use the v4l-dvb driver from linuxtv and get fail with make also after menuconfig

[06:03:52]

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[06:17:31]

jkn:

shhh its a secret

[06:18:29]

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Beirdo:

cooool

[06:56:50]

Beirdo:

Covert Affairs had a Volvo P1800 on it

[06:56:51]

Beirdo:

hehe

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[11:00:43]

banksy:

I am trying add an XBMC button to mythbuntu's home screen – I cannot correlate any mainmenu.xml with what I see on the screen – how do I add a button to the main menu?

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[11:34:17]

stuartm:

by editing mainmenu.xml for the menu theme you are using, which I'm guessing is your problem here

[11:34:30]

stuartm:

there are half a dozen menu themes

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[14:01:11]

j-rod:

so entertainingly, swapping back in my old disk pair with a mostly-rhel6.0 install, mythtv is happy again, no more deadlocks

[14:01:32]

j-rod:

I've started updating bits and pieces to 6.1 to match the env. where it was deadlocking

[14:01:41]

j-rod:

hoping maybe something jumps out

[14:02:27]

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[14:19:42]

gucko:

hi guys

[14:19:47]

gucko:

I got a problem

[14:19:57]

gucko:

I just installed the frontend on my mac

[14:20:05]

gucko:

the backend is on an ubuntu server

[14:20:20]

gucko:

I got this message when I run the frontend

[14:20:49]

gucko:

The server uses protocol version 23056 while this client uses 63

[14:20:53]

gucko:

...etc

[14:21:09]

gucko:

this is when I run the MythWelcome

[14:21:28]

iamlindoro:

Your backend is running .23.1, your mac frontend version is .24. You can't do that.

[14:21:38]

iamlindoro:

If you have a .23.1 backend, you need a .23.1 frontend

[14:21:51]

gucko:

what to do then?

[14:21:58]

gucko:

can I update my backend?

[14:22:04]

iamlindoro:

Compile the version of your frontend appropriate for your backend

[14:22:09]

iamlindoro:

or vice versa

[14:22:12]

gucko:

OMG!

[14:22:32]

iamlindoro:

ROLFMAO!

[14:22:48]

j-rod:

WTFBBQ!

[14:22:58]

gucko:

STHU :D

[14:23:10]

iamlindoro:

TTGOASBP

[14:23:15]

gucko:

hahahahahha

[14:23:16]

j-rod:

IANAL

[14:23:18]

iamlindoro:

(Time to get ops and start banning people)

[14:23:26]

gucko:

oh!

[14:23:29]

gucko:

sorry

[14:23:52]

gucko:

was just kidding guys, no harm :)

[14:24:00]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, yes, your frontends and backends must match. How you accomplish that is between you and the provider of your packages, or you and your compiler

[14:24:16]

eddytv:

Q: why doesn't the frontend automatically switch to an available tuner if you want to watch Live TV? Last night, something was recording, and when you pulled up the Guide and selected a new channel, it just kept showing the currently recording show. Pressing Chan Up/Chan Down also had no effect...

[14:24:50]

eddytv:

I assumed that if you wanted to watch a different show Live, the backend would check for an available tuner and automatically use it to display the live show.

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[15:03:43]

sphery:

eddytv: The short story is that if it did, it could cause missed recordings due to inefficient placement of recordings. Therefore, you have to tell MythTV to "waste" a tuner on Live TV by hitting NEXTCARD (or using the menu to switch inputs).

[15:04:42]

sphery:

and, while it's possible to configure MythTV so that it will waste tuners on Live TV, doing so is really just saying that Live TV is more important to you than /any/ scheduled recordings, so I recommend you don't do that.

[15:05:02]

sphery:

(note, also, it's not simple to configure MythTV that way)

[15:05:02]

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[15:05:41]

spirit3:

I generally avoid live TV – record everything

[15:05:53]

spirit3:

The gf often has different ideas though

[15:05:59]

eddytv:

Hrm. It confused the heck out of the wife last night. She's used to a TiVo where it switches to a new tuner if it's not already recording two things... and in that case, you get a message that both tuners are in use, do you want to cancel a current recording...

[15:06:49]

eddytv:

Also, similarly, if you're watching something Live, you just get a message saying "recording is about to start and needs the tuner, press Stop to cancel the recording" (or something to that effect).

[15:07:05]

spirit3:

eddytv: Myth does the last part of that

[15:07:39]

spirit3:

It doesn't automagically switch tuners for live TV though

[15:07:56]

eddytv:

If it does the later, why wouldnâ€™t it do the former?

[15:08:03]

eddytv:

s/later/latter/

[15:08:27]

spirit3:

I don't know – it would make sense to me

[15:08:39]

eddytv:

What's the harm in using a tuner for Live TV if the backend can claim it when it needs it for a scheduled recording?

[15:09:01]

sphery:

spirit3: that's the way to do it.

[15:09:39]

eddytv:

Having to explain to the wife (and guests) to use a "NEXTCARD" button (which I'd have to find a place for on the remote) to watch live TV when something is recording is not very user friendly.

[15:09:55]

spirit3:

As eddytv says though – if a tuner is free, and the backend can claim it if needed for a recording – why not switch liveTV to a spare tuner

[15:12:15]

sphery:

eddytv: if you really want to break your configuration so that Live TV is higher priority than recordings and so you can save the effort of hitting one button, see /all of/ http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/369358#369358 . Read the whole thing, and use the final approach--the "It's possible you could get around this issue..." solution.

[15:12:31]

sphery:

I still contend that hitting NEXTCARD is the best solution

[15:12:55]

eddytv:

OK, thanks for the linkage! Much appreciated.

[15:12:56]

sphery:

one button to say, "I want to waste a tuner on Live TV but only for now."

[15:13:18]

sphery:

and note that you /must/ use >2 virtual inputs for this to be useful

[15:13:25]

sphery:

using anything less will break all of mythtv

[15:13:42]

sphery:

(i.e. 3+1 is fine... I wouldn't do this for anything less)

[15:22:58]

eddytv:

So there are no plans to have the backend automatically switch to an unused tuner for live tv (and then tell connected frontend's it needs the tuner for a scheduled recording if that situations arises)?

[15:25:16]

sphery:

no, because it will cause inefficient use of tuners, meaning it can cause missed recordings

[15:25:17]

iamlindoro:

No are no plans of any type to change liveTV behavior afoot

[15:25:44]

hashbang:

spirit3: I saw something on the list which suggested adding all your virtual tuners, then adding a further virtual to each physical /in reverse order/, and telling MythTV to use them in reverse order for LiveTV

[15:25:51]

sphery:

believe me, it's not as simple as "just switch tuners then tell the user that you need the tuner to prevent missing recordings"

[15:26:03]

sphery:

hashbang: I linked him, already

[15:26:38]

spirit3:

hashbang: I just found this a minor annoyance (well, the gf saying "myth is broken again")

[15:26:47]

** sphery wonders just how many people break their configurations with his "if you really want to prioritize live tv over all scheduled recordings" approach **

[15:27:15]

spirit3:

When really she switched to livetv using a tuner that was in use for recording – so only had channels available using the same multiplex

[15:27:47]

zombor:

i use that method, and it does exactly what i want

[15:28:05]

spirit3:

sphery: Probably very few as most use MythTV for recording – liveTV was (I think?) originally just a nice add on

[15:28:06]

hashbang:

sphery: ah, yes

[15:28:51]

hashbang:

spirit3: I missed live TV a bit initially, but now I record virtually everything apart from news, weather and BBC Breakfast, which I still watch live.

[15:28:55]

JEDIDIAH__:

might be simpler to just use your cable box directly and bypass myth.

[15:28:58]

eddytv:

OK thanks a bunch. "Selling" MythTV to the wife as a replacement for TiVo is definitely challenging with these "limitations" :)

[15:29:24]

sphery:

spirit3: I was just wondering because a lot of people have been talking about using that approach in the last couple of week--and some even completely misunderstood it to mean "alternate all the input connections"

[15:29:25]

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[15:29:43]

sphery:

where "alternate all the input connections" will completely break recordings

[15:30:00]

sphery:

(meaning you will have a /lot/ of conflicts due to inefficient placement)

[15:32:02]

** hashbang is glad he isn't a pay tv subscriber, and as such, can just add extra tuners for about Â£20 as-and-when **

[15:32:27]

spirit3:

hashbang: same here really, record everything – even if I end up watching a recording as it's happening (often miss the start so start watching with a 10 minute delay)

[15:32:31]

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[15:32:35]

spirit3:

I think it's more a case of changing watching habits

[15:32:52]

sphery:

agreed

[15:33:19]

hashbang:

spirit3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

[15:33:33]

spirit3:

breaking away from the 'this show starts at 17:00' and letting myth make your TV viewing more convenient – rather than sticking to the old habits

[15:33:54]

sphery:

and, since I'd be remiss in not pointing out my manifesto on why recording is /always/ better than Live TV: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/387302#387302

[15:34:00]

hashbang:

spirit3: I find it quite liberating to just go out for social events rather than plan my life around TeeVees

[15:34:02]

sphery:

(even for news and sports)

[15:34:05]

spirit3:

gf's seem to find comfort in old habits though

[15:34:06]

eddytv:

It's not breaking old habits so much as I want to turn on the 11pm news while I'm getting ready for bed.

[15:34:35]

spirit3:

eddytv: oh yes, I do the same – but rarely

[15:34:37]

hashbang:

eddytv: set it to record every night, keep at max 1 or 2 episodes, delete oldest. :-)

[15:34:48]

sphery:

so you just need to get such a large backlog of shows that your gf likes that she'll /choose/ to watch the already-recorded shows that are worth watching rather than whatever garbage is currently airing... :)

[15:34:55]

hashbang:

eddytv: I do that with RussiaToday each morning, in case I want to see RT's take on some bit of news.

[15:35:05]

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[15:35:06]

spirit3:

I do agree it would seem to make sense to always grab a free card for liveTV – but I don't understand the system behind this, or the scheduler – so I take sphery's word for ti not being simple

[15:35:09]

sphery:

though the main message I'm taking from this conversation is, "GF's break MythTV"

[15:35:23]

eddytv:

sphery: and wives.

[15:35:26]

eddytv:

and guests

[15:35:28]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[15:35:36]

hashbang:

sphery: perhaps we should talk of MAF instead of WAF?

[15:35:56]

sphery:

the Me Approval Factor is all I strive for :)

[15:36:03]

eddytv:

It's all good until I'm not around and then I get "the call" about the TV not working "because of the stupid computer setup thing you said would be better than TiVo"

[15:36:12]

sphery:

(or "My Approval..."

[15:36:13]

hashbang:

sphery: perhaps MythTV could issue a pop-up or an email judging your relationship partner...

[15:36:29]

sphery:

heh

[15:38:08]

spirit3:

Maybe rather than a 'nextcard' button, we should have a "oh feck it's the GF – break everything in order to make her happy" button

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[16:14:28]

rooter7:

When I git clone -b fixes/0.24 https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv.git ... am I getting 0.24.1?

[16:14:51]

wagnerrp:

you are getting 0.24-fixes

[16:15:01]

rooter7:

What is recommended?

[16:15:37]

wagnerrp:

0.24.1 is one specific commit on the 0.24-fixes branch

[16:15:41]

tgm4883:

orictosh, you weren't exactly clear as to what was wrong with the packages. Can't fix it if I don't know whats wrong

[16:16:00]

wagnerrp:

the only reason for 0.24.1 to exist is because some distros prefer having specific releases to build their packages from

[16:16:22]

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[16:16:28]

rooter7:

How should I modify my command?

[16:16:38]

rooter7:

Or should I stay with -fixes?

[16:17:14]

wagnerrp:

your command will give you a version of mythtv newer than and compatible with 0.24-fixes

[16:17:23]

orictosh:

when watching live tv if i bring up the epg it crashes and restarts computer back to login

[16:17:55]

rooter7:

wagnerrp: is this recommended?

[16:18:05]

orictosh:

was working working fine with the last version before I moved to natty

[16:18:33]

wagnerrp:

orictosh: if you drop back to login, it means X itself is crashing, not mythtv

[16:19:43]

wagnerrp:

rooter7: if you are building your own mythtv, you should be using an up-to-date 0.24-fixes branch

[16:20:25]

rooter7:

So it sounds like my command is OK.

[16:20:29]

wagnerrp:

yes

[16:21:44]

rooter7:

Thx.

[16:21:47]

orictosh:

it's shows a gabble dmesg then restarts back to login. so it could be X crashing

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wagnerrp:

orictosh: what graphics card do you have?

[16:23:27]

orictosh:

not totally sure as it onboard, will ned to look it up. or is their a way I can get unbuntu to tell me

[16:23:48]

wagnerrp:

what motherboard do you have?

[16:25:20]

sphery:

or look at the Xorg.log file to see a) which card and, perhaps, b) why it's crashing?

[16:25:36]

orictosh:

computer is a shuttle xps system (early one) give me 5 and I will find the manual and post back

[16:27:05]

wagnerrp:

dont those have the model number stamped on th side?

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orictosh:

model number is sk216

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orictosh:

going to sign off to check Bios and Xorg.log is showing that the DRM heap is too small for good performance

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[16:49:24]

macpablo:

Hi i don't know if this is the right tool. I want to be able to tune channels in one computer and stream it over the house and be able to watch and control from another room, is that possible?

[16:49:51]

wagnerrp:

you can do that with mythtv

[16:50:12]

macpablo:

can i have mutiple tuners and multiple clients?

[16:50:30]

wagnerrp:

however the intended use is to record that channel on one computer, and stream it to a remote client at some later time at your leisure

[16:50:58]

wagnerrp:

mythtv supports multiple tuners per backend, multiple backends, and multiple frontends connected to that system

[16:51:06]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

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plink212:

Hi, I am having a weird issue on one of my frontends. The theme seems to be sitting on top of the menus and on the video. i.e. If i select TV settings the theme stops responding but I can hit back and it all comes back to life again. I know it is spawning the windows as I launch xbmc from a menu item and I can see that in top

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plink212:

any ideas about my theme problem?

[17:45:21]

wagnerrp:

im not really sure what youre asking

[17:45:29]

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[17:46:07]

wagnerrp:

youre going into mythtv's own settings menus, and it stalls?

[17:46:22]

sphery:

plink212: if nothing else, make sure you're on the most-current 0.24-fixes

[17:46:54]

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[17:47:05]

plink212:

basically the root menus sits on top of the configuration menus. It is like a stack of cards and the top card is not being lifted off

[17:47:14]

sphery:

there have been fixes for opengl timing issues that could cause similar behavior to what you mention

[17:47:35]

wagnerrp:

if youre talking about loading external programs, mythtv intentionally locks up until that program returns

[17:47:46]

plink212:

This is running trunk and it only seems to affect one frontend

[17:47:57]

sphery:

and it's /current/ master?

[17:47:58]

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[17:48:05]

wagnerrp:

what graphics card?

[17:48:06]

sphery:

because there were fixes...

[17:48:26]

wagnerrp:

are you using anything like compiz/aiglx?

[17:48:26]

plink212:

2 secs just getting version

[17:50:17]

plink212:

ok next question how does get the checkout version in git then

[17:50:24]

sphery:

mythbackend --version

[17:51:01]

plink212:

MythTV Version : v0.25pre-2500-g1bbc9a4 MythTV Branch : master Network Protocol : 66 Library API : 0.25.20110625–1 QT Version : 4.7.2

[17:51:59]

sphery:

that's current

[17:52:05]

sphery:

ATI graphics?

[17:52:25]

plink212:

machine is a amd e-350 so ati graphics and this all worked under 0.24-fixes only moved across to try out the vaapi stuff

[17:52:46]

wagnerrp:

eech

[17:52:56]

sphery:

yeah, the problems have seemed to be AMD/ATI graphics users

[17:53:11]

sphery:

also note that VAAPI support is pre-alpha at best

[17:53:33]

sphery:

have you tried using a different renderer (like Xv) to see if playback works properly

[17:53:38]

plink212:

I tried using themepainter=qt to see if that helped

[17:53:40]

wagnerrp:

were you using the Qt painter previously?

[17:53:45]

sphery:

(though that won't help with the other)

[17:53:54]

plink212:

cannot get that far as I cannot get into the menus to set anything

[17:53:54]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt do anything any longer

[17:53:59]

sphery:

plink212: please post the log output from starting up the frontend

[17:54:07]

plink212:

-v all?

[17:54:08]

Gibby:

is there any extra debugging i can turn on to figure out why i am getting jitter with my hd-pvr's?

[17:54:13]

sphery:

no, just default verbose

[17:54:25]

sphery:

that was for plink212 , not Gibby :)

[17:54:33]

Gibby:

o lol

[17:54:47]

sphery:

Gibby: are you sure it's your recordings and not your playback?

[17:54:59]

sphery:

sounds more like a playback problem

[17:55:01]

Gibby:

it is driving my nuts, put in a new dedicated gigaswitch between be and fe, thinking my old one was flaking

[17:55:19]

sphery:

jitter meaning not-smooth delivery of frames?

[17:55:34]

Gibby:

i have the bitrate all the way down to 4000000

[17:55:39]

Gibby:

sphery, correct

[17:55:58]

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[17:56:02]

sphery:

decoder not keeping up/causing skipped frames?

[17:56:21]

sphery:

or are you using timestretch (as with some speeds, you /will/ see jitter)

[17:57:11]

Gibby:

..... idk, all i know is i get the famous Waited 100ms for video buffers

[17:57:15]

sphery:

I find that 1.25, 1.5, 1.75 all seem to work nicely enough because they allow even division of my source (30fps and 60fps) materials

[17:57:20]

Gibby:

no timestrech

[17:57:49]

sphery:

ok, 1.75 isn't even, but it seems to work /much/ better than 1.65

[17:58:09]

sphery:

1.66 would be ideal, but...

[17:58:42]

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[17:58:50]

Gibby:

how can i check decorder status/performance?

[17:59:04]

sphery:

I will admit that 1.75 is less smooth than 1.5/1.25--but it's fast enough it's not as big a deal, I guess

[17:59:14]

sphery:

which decoder are you using?

[17:59:28]

Gibby:

default in vdpau normal

[17:59:38]

sphery:

with which card?

[17:59:50]

plink212:

http://pastebin.com/uFUeJ41D

[18:00:42]

Gibby:

ion

[18:00:47]

sphery:

plink212: ok, thanks--I was wondering if you were hitting an issue that I plan to fix today, but you're not.

[18:01:08]

Gibby:

HD-ND02-U with 2G ram

[18:01:14]

Gibby:

Zotac

[18:01:14]

sphery:

plink212: it definitely sounds like your OpenGL support in your video drivers/gpu isn't working properly--maybe because of incorrect settings?

[18:01:50]

sphery:

plink212: you can try the reduced-functionality, ugly, breaks-some-themes OpenGL painter with: mythfrontend -O UIPainter=qt

[18:02:03]

plink212:

have dumped out all of my xorg.conf will try downgrading driver

[18:02:05]

sphery:

Gibby: on an atom system?

[18:02:08]

Gibby:

yep

[18:02:18]

Gibby:

atom 330

[18:02:33]

sphery:

Gibby: I think the GPU should be fine for that, but it could be a problem with the CPU--what's top look like

[18:02:43]

sphery:

(at least fine for 1.0x playback)

[18:02:50]

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[18:03:22]

Gibby:

kids are watching a movie, but i watch it all the time, never gets above 2 i think

[18:03:32]

Gibby:

load of 2

[18:03:44]

sphery:

what percentage on CPU usage?

[18:03:54]

Gibby:

around 50% on about 2 cores

[18:03:59]

Gibby:

i ahve it set to use all 4 cores

[18:04:16]

Gibby:

let me run a quick test

[18:05:01]

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[18:05:25]

sphery:

where 2 of those "cores" are just Intel marketing, er, I mean Symmetric Multithreading, er, I mean Hyped-upThreading, er, I mean HyperThreading(TM)?

[18:05:36]

j-rod:

Gibby: you do of course know that it doesn't have 4 "cores"â€¦ yeah, what sphery said

[18:06:01]

Gibby:

sorry, 4 threads then

[18:06:03]

sphery:

not sure what it could be at this point

[18:06:12]

sphery:

it sounds like you have some headroom on your CPU

[18:06:31]

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[18:06:51]

Gibby:

yeah plenty, err, think i need to bounce my hdpvr, getting a connection timed out on the backend

[18:07:14]

sphery:

Gibby + plink212 : make sure you both have set up your systems to use sync to vblank with OpenGL

[18:07:20]

sphery:

other than that, I'm out of ideas

[18:07:38]

Gibby:

sphery, which setting menu is that in?

[18:07:43]

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[18:08:29]

sphery:

Gibby + plink212 : http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 51677#451677

[18:08:55]

sphery:

and, I keep hearing that when you configure it using nvidia-settings, you have to re-configure it every time you start X

[18:09:06]

sphery:

(meaning set up a script to configure it at X startup)

[18:09:20]

sphery:

no clue what the "similar way for ATI" would be

[18:09:58]

plink212:

you do the ati one in the catalyst control centre

[18:10:15]

sphery:

ah, cool

[18:10:27]

sphery:

so, yeah, make sure that's set--and you may want to check some of the other settings, too

[18:10:45]

sphery:

and, as wagnerrp mentioned, if you're using a "fancy" compositing window manager, it could well be causing problems

[18:11:06]

sphery:

(things like Compiz or, possibly, XFCE with compositor or ...)

[18:14:34]

plink212:

mine at least is just evilwm calling mythfrontend nothing fancy and have composite disabled in xorg.conf

[18:16:43]

skd5aner:

so, am I interpretting this correctly – that mythfrontend can now be a UPnP client (once the UI elements are written)? – http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-fireho . . . /000496.html

[18:17:42]

wagnerrp:

that is the plan

[18:18:47]

skd5aner:

pretty awesome

[18:19:07]

skd5aner:

was a little confused by the "media server scanner" terminology

[18:19:25]

skd5aner:

not necessarily confused, just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly

[18:19:45]

Gibby:

uhhh now i am getting blank video :/

[18:24:36]

Gibby:

ok, at a bitrate of 4000000, all threads are at about 5–10%

[18:26:27]

Gibby:

at 13.5Mb the cpu usage goes down but getting jitter

[18:27:13]

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[18:29:05]

Gibby:

during jitter i get this in the backend logs http://pastebin.com/HdzQFNLV

[18:30:09]

sphery:

Gibby: TTBOMK, when that happens, MythTV restarts the HD-PVR encoder--so you may actually just be seeing missing audio/video when it restarts

[18:30:45]

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[18:30:45]

Gibby:

yeah but it is basically scrolling those errors at a higher cbr

[18:30:49]

sphery:

you need to play back on a different media player (ideally on a different system) that's know to play back material correctly and see if the issue is in the recording or in the playback

[18:33:44]

Gibby:

lol, all my fe's are the same systems

[18:34:17]

Gibby:

maybe i will try it on my desktop later, once i fix it, gotta to grab lunch and get back to work, thanks sphery

[18:34:57]

sphery:

good luck

[18:35:03]

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[18:35:41]

sphery:

an ideal different system would be a Windows system--since it has drivers/players that allow GPU offload and would be most likely to "just work"

[18:36:10]

wagnerrp:

did he ever say whether he got these problems during standard recording?

[18:40:04]

j-rod:

sphery: Windows?!? "just work"?!?â€¦ ;) (tbf, my windows 7 box is actually rock-solid. anything priorâ€¦ ew.)

[18:40:12]

sphery:

heh

[18:40:35]

sphery:

Yeah, I think Win7 is pretty nice. XP wasn't too bad. Prior was a joke.

[18:40:58]

j-rod:

in between XP and 7 was jokes too

[18:41:05]

j-rod:

my thinkpad still has a vista install on it

[18:41:11]

j-rod:

its horrid

[18:41:20]

AndyCap:

and now linux is something like a cross of windows 98 and vista

[18:41:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: don't think so--you mean "standard recording with HD-PVR" (meaning non-Live-TV) or "standard recording with different capture device" (meaning different CODEC/encoding)

[18:41:39]

j-rod:

depends on which aspect you're talking about

[18:41:48]

AndyCap:

j-rod: desktop. :P

[18:42:06]

j-rod:

Yep. Gnome 3.0 and Unity in Ubuntu 11.04: both crap

[18:42:19]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, i mean are all recordings broken, or just those tied into a livetv session

[18:42:31]

sphery:

heh, yeah Vista isn't ideal, but it's much better now than when first released since all the hardware vendors have had time to completely rewrite and redesign their drivers from scratch

[18:42:51]

j-rod:

I gave up on Linux on the desktop a while back now

[18:42:54]

AndyCap:

sphery: which also makes 7 better.

[18:43:06]

AndyCap:

j-rod: still using it.

[18:43:22]

sphery:

(as most of the real problems with Vista were instability caused by bad drivers because MS made them rewrite them from scratch for the new HAL so they could add DRM support to Windows)

[18:44:21]

j-rod:

I stick to Mac OS X for my desktop. Windows for my primary gaming rig.

[18:44:30]

sphery:

but now I tend to see Vista as Windows 7 without the efficiency improvements (i.e. designed for heavy/power-hungry hardware) and with a few stupid-UI issues that they improved on for Win7

[18:44:35]

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[18:44:52]

j-rod:

Linux for servers, myth boxes, development fun, etc.

[18:44:55]

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[18:44:59]

sphery:

yeah, I have a single Windows system, which is just an extra HDD in my mythtv dev box, that's only used for gaming

[18:45:15]

sphery:

and it gets booted maybe once every couple months

[18:45:16]

skd5aner:

j-rod: love it when a linux dev says that stuff '_

[18:45:19]

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[18:45:19]

skd5aner:

;)

[18:45:23]

j-rod:

I have a glut of hardware...

[18:45:47]

j-rod:

yeah, those statements out of me are all the more amusing if you know a bit about me. :)

[18:46:05]

AndyCap:

Had a win7 machine when the betas were free, but that's about it. :P well, it sits on my mythfrontend disk still, but not sure if it even boots now after expiry

[18:46:36]

wagnerrp:

AndyCap: well the full version is only $7 so...

[18:46:49]

j-rod:

it was too much hassle to get xp running on a phenom II, so I got a copy of windows 7

[18:47:10]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: uh, what?

[18:47:27]

wagnerrp:

(educational version)

[18:47:33]

AndyCap:

oh.

[18:47:38]

** AndyCap is not educational **

[18:47:52]

j-rod:

I have kids in school, does that count?

[18:48:02]

j-rod:

well, summer vacation right now, but

[18:48:05]

AndyCap:

nor without sharp edges and loose parts

[18:48:12]

wagnerrp:

does their school have a license agreement with microsoft?

[18:48:36]

j-rod:

no clue. probably not, since all I've ever seen there are macs.

[18:48:40]

sphery:

OK, so just upgraded from Firefox 3.6.13 (technically Namaroka 3.6.13) to Firefox 5.0 (technically Aurora 5.0), and it was a /huge/ change. So I figured going from Thunderbird (Lanakai) 3.1.7 to Thunderbird (Miramar) 5.0 would be at least as huge. Other than the new name, I'm not seeing much difference at all. Guess that's because I'm one of only 5 Thunderbird users left, now that Google has invented a replacement for email (GMail)

[18:48:46]

j-rod:

which is fine with me

[18:48:47]

AndyCap:

hm, that's right, some microsoft agreements come with home use license

[18:48:59]

plink212:

In the uk you can buy ms products at educational rates if your kids are in full time school

[18:49:03]

AndyCap:

what happened to fmail?

[18:49:27]

sphery:

not nearly as much work going into t-bird compared to ff

[18:50:15]

sphery:

AndyCap: heh, hadn't thought about that. Maybe gmail is just *2* better than email.

[18:50:18]

AndyCap:

FMail is a shareware echomail processor for networks that use Fidonet technology.

[18:50:24]

AndyCap:

ah, right. fidomail

[18:50:38]

wagnerrp:

is that network over canine carrier?

[18:51:10]

sphery:

heh

[18:51:11]

AndyCap:

well, not exactly, but I guess you could implement that

[18:51:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: maybe they ate the pigeons?

[18:51:28]

wagnerrp:

nah

[18:51:37]

wagnerrp:

cats ate the pigeons, dogs ate the cats

[18:51:45]

sphery:

ah, that makes sense

[18:51:49]

AndyCap:

fido scares up the pigeons, you shoot them

[18:52:27]

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[18:53:00]

sphery:

the IP over Feline Carrier network had some serious latency issues, IIRC. Lots of sleeping "threads", I guess.

[18:55:34]

kormoc:

sphery, I thought IPoFC was a extension to IPoAC to increase total bandwidth and decrease latency

[18:55:55]

kormoc:

although it would increase packet loss

[18:56:31]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: it suffers from a significant possibility of YIIM attack

[18:56:35]

plink212:

Just to clarify this seems to definately be an opengl issue as if I use the -O UIPainter=qt I can get into the menus

[18:57:33]

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[18:58:14]

wagnerrp:

(yarn in the middle)

[18:58:25]

sphery:

heh

[18:59:37]

andrewju:

Hi All,

[18:59:48]

sphery:

plink212: ideally we'd figure out exactly what's causing the opengl problems so that we could fix it so we don't have to tell people to use an old, less-functional painter (that breaks some themes).

[19:00:22]

sphery:

plink212: out of curiosity, did you use OpenGL or Qt painter before? Any chance the OpenGL painter worked properly in an earlier version of MythTV with this driver?

[19:00:53]

plink212:

I was using opengl for playback and themes before as there was less tearing on ati with it

[19:01:11]

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[19:01:38]

sphery:

and it worked fine? Was it same drivers or different?

[19:01:56]

sphery:

it's possible some of the many opengl-related changes in unstable have caused new problems

[19:02:04]

plink212:

same driver all of this started with moving from 0.24-fixes to trunk

[19:02:57]

sphery:

hmmm.. well, mar kk has been very busy working on OpenGL (especially for the non-nvidia cases--which have always been less useful), and I think he still has further work planned

[19:03:40]

sphery:

It might be worth filing a ticket (and please attach the output of mythbackend --version as a file attachment after submitting the ticket).

[19:04:14]

sphery:

and provide all the info on GPU, graphics card drivers and version info, and anything else you think might be important

[19:08:53]

plink212:

this is the sucessful run http://pastebin.com/8xsyi9QQ

[19:09:55]

plink212:

this is using opengl as the render method as well. just seems to be a themes problem

[19:10:58]

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[19:16:03]

Gibby:

wagnerrp, only tried live to far

[19:17:17]

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[19:20:28]

plink212:

have created a ticket the pastebins have the graphic card details in do you think I should attach a lspci as well or should that be enough?

[19:25:22]

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[19:44:10]

sphery:

plink212: you got it working with OpenGL painter?

[19:44:12]

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[19:44:14]

gucko:

hi guys

[19:45:54]

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[19:46:21]

gucko:

I just downloaded and installed the frontend (0.23.1) on my Mac, the backend is on ubuntu server. I'm now in the configuration. after I chose the language, I got this message: No UPnP backend, or something like that because the GUI wasn't correct somehow. After that I clicked OK and become in the next screen

[19:46:24]

gucko:

the DB config

[19:46:43]

sphery:

plink212: thanks for the ticket. an lspci might be useful

[19:46:47]

gucko:

I left it as it and then clicked next (tho I put the IP of the server)

[19:46:51]

gucko:

then also clicked next

[19:46:55]

gucko:

but got a message

[19:46:58]

gucko:

Can't login

[19:47:16]

gucko:

but I'm not sure if this is the whole message, cuz the GUI of the message wasn't OK

[19:47:20]

gucko:

it was small

[19:47:56]

sphery:

plink212: also, can you try another run with the OpenGL painter, but use: export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 ; export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1 ; mythfrontend

[19:47:57]

gucko:

what could be wrong please?

[19:48:13]

sphery:

gucko: you have 0.23.1 on the Ubuntu backend server?

[19:48:19]

gucko:

yes

[19:48:22]

sphery:

as far as the small text, that's almost definitely fixed in 0.24

[19:48:28]

gucko:

well..I guess

[19:48:48]

wagnerrp:

gucko: no upnp backend means the backend is not running the upnp serveeeeeeeeeeeeer

[19:49:02]

wagnerrp:

which unless you manually forced so on the command line, means your backend is listening on 127.0.0.1

[19:49:10]

wagnerrp:

in that setup, you cannot use remote frontends

[19:49:12]

wagnerrp:

youu must fix that first

[19:49:31]

gucko:

how to do that please?

[19:49:52]

wagnerrp:

on your backend, go into mythtv-setup, general, and use your network ip, rather than loopback

[19:50:01]

gucko:

ah ok :)

[19:51:06]

gucko:

wagnerrp: the IP is already correct :(

[19:51:21]

gucko:

it's listening on the network IP

[19:51:40]

wagnerrp:

is your mysql server set to only listen on loopback?

[19:51:47]

gucko:

I don't know

[19:52:03]

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[19:52:08]

gucko:

how can I check that?

[19:52:46]

sphery:

gucko: final 2 paragraphs at http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html#ss6.2

[19:53:00]

wagnerrp:

^^^

[19:58:17]

plink212:

sphery that seems to have fixed it

[19:58:37]

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[19:59:03]

sphery:

plink212: interesting... can you try with: unset XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS; export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 ; mythfrontend

[19:59:27]

sphery:

I think it's the LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT that's helping... and can I get a pastebin of a log from running with that, please

[20:00:36]

plink212:

that also works

[20:01:52]

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[20:01:59]

gucko:

guys how can I add the password here: mysql -u root mythconverg

[20:02:01]

sphery:

the log pastebin will be very interesting, then

[20:02:06]

gucko:

I get this message from terminal:

[20:02:13]

sphery:

gucko: mysql -uroot -p mythconverg

[20:02:16]

gucko:

Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)

[20:02:17]

sphery:

then it prompts for the password

[20:02:29]

plink212:

http://pastebin.com/5AFTt4Ne

[20:02:32]

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[20:03:17]

plink212:

OpenGL is using software rendering. Falling back to Qt painter.

[20:03:24]

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[20:03:33]

sphery:

ah, that does what I wondered if it was going to do

[20:03:43]

sphery:

it falls back to Qt rendering because it's indirect rendering

[20:04:36]

sphery:

so, back to "need to get working video drivers" :(

[20:05:06]

plink212:

would it help if i tried this on the radeon driver to prove it is fglrx?

[20:05:45]

gucko:

guys how to restart mysql?

[20:05:54]

wagnerrp:

depends on your distro

[20:05:59]

gucko:

ubuntu

[20:06:30]

gucko:

got it restarted :)

[20:06:51]

plink212:

hmm spoke too soon menus work but video is busted

[20:08:16]

gucko:

I got it working :D

[20:08:38]

gucko:

but the channels video quality seems not so good :(

[20:12:40]

gucko:

guys is there a way to get a better quality?

[20:13:08]

gucko:

the quality was way better when I used the program that came with my DVB card on Windows :(

[20:13:15]

gucko:

or even on Kaffien

[20:13:22]

gucko:

of course that was on the same machine

[20:13:41]

Scopeuk-AFK is now known as Scopeuk

[20:13:49]

gucko:

but I wonder if the quality loss is because of some configuartions to make it like that for networking

[20:13:56]

gucko:

I hope there's a way to change that

[20:15:20]

iamlindoro:

We don't modify the data that comes out of your card in any way.

[20:15:22]

wagnerrp:

gucko: there is no way to change the video quality, as all applications capture exactly the same thing from DVB cards

[20:15:28]

wagnerrp:

its a digital broadcast

[20:15:39]

wagnerrp:

reproduction of the signal is bit-exact

[20:16:01]

gucko:

guys I swear, the quality was far better

[20:16:12]

gucko:

I used Kaffiene on Ubuntu

[20:16:29]

iamlindoro:

What do you consider to be wrong with the quality of what you're seeing in MythTV?

[20:16:36]

gucko:

could it be that this has to do with codics?

[20:16:39]

wagnerrp:

are you sure youre talking about DVB, and not the analog framegrabber that often comes with digital tuners?

[20:16:43]

iamlindoro:

since "quality" is an arbitrary word with no meaning

[20:16:48]

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[20:16:52]

iamlindoro:

and no, it has nothing to do with "codecs," this isn't Windows

[20:17:02]

iamlindoro:

Kaffeine and MythTV use the exact same decoding libraries

[20:17:26]

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[20:17:43]

gucko:

I don't know what to say

[20:18:02]

gucko:

wagnerrp: yes it's a DVB-S

[20:18:11]

gucko:

Technosat Skystar 2

[20:18:19]

gucko:

I used to use ProgDVB

[20:18:23]

gucko:

on Windows also

[20:18:23]

wagnerrp:

and you configured it in mythtv using the DVB input, not the V4L inpuut?

[20:18:42]

gucko:

let me check that again

[20:18:50]

iamlindoro:

gucko: If you can't explain what you feel is wrong with the playback quality, we can't help you fix it

[20:19:10]

iamlindoro:

you say "the quality is bad," if that's true then you need to be able to express *how* it is bad

[20:19:14]

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[20:19:22]

gucko:

iamlindoro: not sharp?

[20:19:24]

iamlindoro:

Because otherwise we have to guess at the thousands of things you could have misconfigured

[20:19:27]

uW:

i wonder if gucko could do a recording on both then do ffmpeg -i on the files and check the resolution?

[20:19:41]

wagnerrp:

you mention linux, windows, and osx... what OS are you currently running your frontend on?

[20:19:50]

iamlindoro:

uW, he's using DVB, the resolution isn't under his control

[20:20:17]

gucko:

wagnerrp: on OS X

[20:20:39]

sphery:

plink212: if you can try radeon, that would be wonderful

[20:20:50]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: does OSX support the opengl renderer?

[20:20:58]

iamlindoro:

It should

[20:21:01]

uW:

iamlindoro, ahhh

[20:21:07]

iamlindoro:

Quartz and GL should both work

[20:21:29]

wagnerrp:

gucko: quartz is probably the default, opengl will likely look better

[20:21:31]

iamlindoro:

with a preference for GL... I am guessing he is having trouble expressing a poorly chosen deinterlacer, but without more data...

[20:21:49]

gucko:

wagnerrp: it's DVB input

[20:23:41]

gucko:

wagnerrp: how to open it with opengl?

[20:24:12]

wagnerrp:

in the frontend, tv settings, playback profiles

[20:24:33]

iamlindoro:

Specifically: Utilities/Setup->Setup->TV Settings->Playback Settings, Page 3

[20:27:53]

sphery:

plink212: also, out of curiosity, what do you get with: export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1 ; mythfrontend -O UIPainter=opengl

[20:28:19]

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[20:28:30]

sphery:

plink212: and thanks for doing these tests--they're something I've been needing the answers to, but don't have any ATI cards to test with

[20:32:11]

gucko:

guys what's the aspect ratio for 1280 by 800 ?

[20:32:17]

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[20:32:17]

gucko:

Macbook pro 13 in

[20:32:48]

abqjp:

Gibby: depending on the version of Myth you are using, just because LiveTV is "jittery" does not mean watching a recording will be. With LiveTV, have you tried pausing for a few seconds, and then letting it resume play?

[20:33:17]

Gibby:

adante, not yet, i will try it in an hour when I get back home,

[20:33:23]

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[20:33:31]

Gibby:

oh the latest version of myth as of sunday i believe

[20:33:50]

plink212:

going to take a few mins as I need to enable drm and reboot the frontend

[20:34:13]

plink212:

sphery:thanks for all you help

[20:34:46]

dekarl:

gucko, likely 16:10 (1280:800 with square pixels)

[20:37:01]

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[20:40:03]

gucko:

it got far better :)

[20:40:24]

gucko:

I wonder if there's a way to display a list for the channels

[20:41:26]

sphery:

gucko: 1280x800 is 16:10

[20:41:43]

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[20:41:46]

gucko:

sphery: dekarl already told me :)

[20:42:17]

sphery:

gucko: so make sure you set up your DisplaySize such that you get a nice 16:10 ratio in the millimeters section of: xdpyinfo | grep dimensions

[20:43:01]

sphery:

if you don't get that, mythtv will render the video all wrong (because you're telling it to render for some other-shaped screen)

[20:43:59]

stuartm:

sphery: I thought we had eliminated the need for a specific DisplaySize

[20:44:37]

stuartm:

and it can always be overridden in the appearance settings anyway (Monitor Aspect Ratio)

[20:45:33]

gucko:

yeah, it's far better

[20:45:37]

gucko:

I chose 16/9

[20:45:41]

gucko:

16:9 ratio

[20:46:26]

gucko:

the quality problem is solved :)

[20:46:44]

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[20:46:58]

gucko:

is there a menu for channels? all I found is press 'm' for menu, then chose Program Guide

[20:47:14]

gucko:

I wish if there's a quick menu for channels

[20:48:40]

gucko:

sorry the aspect ratio i chose is 14:9

[20:50:12]

sphery:

stuartm: DPI can be anything, but DisplaySize /must/ be set such that X knows what shape the screen is or circles will be ovals and squares will be rectangles and video will be stretched or squished

[20:50:57]

sphery:

and the Monitor Aspect Ratio is only an ugly hack that we put there to affect /video/ rendering and only because we can't get the aspect ratio from X for Xinerama, and the setting only appears when you have Xinerama enabled

[20:51:51]

sphery:

and why would anyone /want/ to tell X their physical screen has a 4:3 shape when it's really 16:9--well, why would anyone who's not a compulsive liar, that is :)

[20:52:25]

sphery:

gucko: so, please set up X correctly and you will only need to set "Monitor Aspect Ratio" if you're using Xinerama or one of its ilk

[20:53:00]

sphery:

and the benefit is that that way, /other/ applications will display properly on your screen, too (including Firefox and LibreOffice and MPlayer and xine and ...)

[20:53:40]

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[20:56:28]

stuartm:

sphery: I've not needed to use DisplaySize for two or three years now, none of my x configs use it

[20:56:52]

sphery:

stuartm: yes, if your TV/monitor reports proper information, you don't need to override it

[20:56:57]

gucko:

what's DisplaySize btw?!

[20:57:28]

sphery:

however, you should always still verify that X is properly configured by checking the ratio of the width/height in millimeters, as reported by: xdpyinfo | grep dimensions

[20:57:41]

stuartm:

sphery: right, which brings me back to TVs/Monitors reporting incorrect info should be returned to the manufacturer as not fit for purpose ;)

[20:58:06]

sphery:

all I'm saying is that gucko needs to check it so that he knows that things outside of MythTV are working properly so that he doesn't break MythTV by setting an aspect override that shouldn't be set

[20:59:00]

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[20:59:12]

gucko:

sphery: dimensions: 1280x778 pixels (339x206 millimeters)

[20:59:18]

stuartm:

it's bloody stupid in this day and age for any monitor/tv to be returning incorrect information via EDID

[20:59:36]

sphery:

(as most people choose the aspect override setting since the Monitor Aspect Ratio setting doesn't appear since they're not using Xinerama, and at that point, they're telling MythTV to treat their 16:9 videos as 4:3, and then we render them for a 4:3 monitor, but since X is misconfigured it /looks/ right on the TV, but as soon as they fix their X or get a new TV, everything falls apart, and we get bug reports)

[20:59:43]

stuartm:

gucko: is the screen 34cmx20.5cm?

[20:59:53]

gucko:

it's a 13" macbook pro

[21:00:53]

gucko:

guys is there way to have the screen minimized to a size? so I can watch TV and work on something else

[21:01:39]

sphery:

that's pretty close to 16:10, so probably good enough

[21:02:20]

stuartm:

gucko: yes, but it you can't resize the screen dynamically, MythTV is primarily designed for use on dedicated machines, usually with a TV or large monitor

[21:02:21]

sphery:

gucko: in Appearance settings, set a width and height, and make sure in playback settings you've told MythTV to use the GUI size for video

[21:03:35]

stuartm:

I wonder how far Daniel got on his dynamic resizing changes

[21:03:46]

sphery:

good question

[21:04:01]

sphery:

would be nice to have that capability

[21:04:02]

stuartm:

although they almost certainly would have been invalidated by recent changes made to video rendering by Mark

[21:04:18]

sphery:

(though I do fear all the problems it will cause since we've never had to worry about it before)

[21:04:22]

stuartm:

and I can't imagine how mythui would cope

[21:04:30]

gucko:

guys how can i stop the backend?

[21:04:31]

sphery:

but after the initial pain, would make MythTV a lot more usable on the desktop

[21:05:19]

sphery:

stuartm: yeah, I just hope it won't mean re-fixing all the things mar kk is finally getting fixed up for us

[21:06:19]

sphery:

gucko: depends on distro... I never can remember what it is for *buntu, but it's deceptively simple/intuitive once someone tells you

[21:06:35]

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[21:06:53]

stuartm:

I hope that all the work he has done on DVD playback have fixed the playback pauses I get with 0.24, those drive me crazy but I cannot figure out what's causing it

[21:07:12]

stuartm:

gucko: /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend stop

[21:07:18]

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[21:07:23]

stuartm:

for ubuntu

[21:07:36]

gucko:

thanks :)

[21:07:37]

stuartm:

but very similar for all other distros

[21:07:53]

stuartm:

just the name of the init file changes

[21:07:57]

dekarl:

gucko: sudo service mythtv-backend stop

[21:08:23]

stuartm:

dekarl: which is functionally equivalent to running the init script

[21:08:32]

stuartm:

well, except the addition of sudo

[21:09:16]

gucko:

guys how can I use 'scan' to create channels.conf?

[21:09:18]

dekarl:

indeed, but I can't remember if it's init.d or rc.d and with or without .sh at the end ;)

[21:09:24]

sphery:

it's the service one I never remember

[21:09:32]

wagnerrp:

gucko: you dont, you use mythtv's internal scanner

[21:09:46]

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[21:09:53]

gucko:

but it needs to add the frequencies one by one :(

[21:10:28]

sphery:

scanner does it automatically

[21:10:34]

sphery:

he didn't say to manually add channels

[21:10:36]

wagnerrp:

we still require DVB-S users to scan from an existing transport?

[21:10:36]

sphery:

:)

[21:10:43]

stuartm:

nice, this new bedside reading lamp uses just 1.5 Watts

[21:10:45]

dekarl:

gucko, on digital tv? can't you just let it learn transports from the first frequency?

[21:10:49]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: sadly yes

[21:11:06]

stuartm:

gucko: it only needs _one_ frequency, it will then find the rest itself

[21:11:21]

gucko:

stuartm: how?

[21:11:24]

gucko:

I added one for it

[21:12:23]

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[21:14:07]

gucko:

Channels couldn't be opened!

[21:14:42]

gucko:

yeah I know what's wrong now

[21:18:43]

gucko:

guys it doesn't find all channels

[21:18:45]

gucko:

only 14

[21:18:51]

gucko:

which is for the frequency

[21:19:12]

AndyCap:

kenneth?

[21:19:12]

gucko:

tho I'm using scan of all exisiting transports

[21:23:02]

stuartm:

gucko: tick the box which says "Add new transports" or whatever

[21:23:20]

gucko:

ok

[21:23:43]

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[21:30:51]

plink212:

sphery: took a while but it seems to be fine on ati/radeon

[21:33:52]

sphery:

plink212: interesting... and your log shows that it's using the OpenGL painter?

[21:34:23]

sphery:

plink212: if so, could you please post a comment on your ticket saying things seem to work fine with radeon drivers. thanks

[21:38:55]

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[21:42:15]

gucko:

guys I can't find a way to show the channel list

[21:43:46]

wagnerrp:

there are channel editors in both mythtv-setup and mythweb, and the frontend has the EPG with a channel grid

[21:43:47]

sphery:

Manage Recordings|Schedule Recordings|Program Guide?

[21:43:56]

plink212:

definately seems to be http://pastebin.com/6SPixFK7

[21:43:58]

sphery:

oh, channel editor

[21:44:28]

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[21:44:39]

gucko:

I meant, to switch from one channel to another while watching

[21:44:47]

sphery:

plink212: nice... might want to stick with radeon drivers, then? (And that's starting it up without the LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT variable, right?)

[21:44:49]

gucko:

something like scrolling them

[21:45:17]

sphery:

I'm guessing it is because it still says direct rendering, but...

[21:45:31]

iamlindoro:

Press the MENU button while watching, Schedule->Program Guide

[21:45:55]

gucko:

iamlindoro: how to search?

[21:46:16]

plink212:

yep I had commented out the direct rendering.

[21:46:20]

wagnerrp:

search?

[21:46:26]

gucko:

search for a channe

[21:46:27]

iamlindoro:

You don't search in the live guide-- There are many search options and methos in "Manage Recordings"

[21:46:28]

gucko:

channel

[21:46:37]

wagnerrp:

you type it in using the number keys

[21:46:38]

plink212:

only issue I have now is no hdmi sound and everyone is blue using xv

[21:46:38]

iamlindoro:

you don't search for a channel, you just enter the number

[21:46:58]

gucko:

what?!

[21:47:07]

gucko:

should I remember the number or each channel!!

[21:47:13]

gucko:

there are like over a thousands!

[21:47:22]

wagnerrp:

no, you should not use livetv

[21:47:29]

wagnerrp:

search for shows you want to watch

[21:47:34]

wagnerrp:

watch the recordings at a later time

[21:47:40]

gucko:

?!

[21:47:50]

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[21:47:52]

wagnerrp:

thats the whole purpose of a DVR

[21:48:18]

gucko:

all I need is a way to watch tv easily :)

[21:48:22]

gucko:

like my reciver

[21:48:24]

gucko:

:)

[21:48:32]

iamlindoro:

Then you are using the wrong program

[21:48:38]

gucko:

:(

[21:48:57]

gucko:

I guess this is the only program that would let me watch tv streamed

[21:49:01]

gucko:

i.e from server to clients

[21:49:11]

gucko:

since my DVB is connect to the server

[21:49:15]

gucko:

internal DVB

[21:49:25]

sphery:

once you start recording TV, you'll likely wonder why you ever wasted your time watching whatever drivel just happened to be airing at the time

[21:49:31]

wagnerrp:

there are others, but they are all DVRs

[21:49:41]

wagnerrp:

and the purpose of a DVR is that you do not watch live tv

[21:50:17]

sphery:

I have 1440 programs recorded, meaning that I could sit down and watch shows I've actually already decided are worth watching, rather than hoping that something interesting just happens to be airing now

[21:50:46]

gucko:

most channels on Nilesat doesn't have EPG data

[21:50:52]

gucko:

*don't

[21:50:55]

sphery:

and, even if you're lucky enough to sit down when something interesting /is/ airing, you're not likely to sit down at just the right time to see the show in its entirety--unless you're actively scheduling your TV watching time around the network schedules

[21:51:03]

wagnerrp:

then you need to find an alternate source of EPG data

[21:51:09]

wagnerrp:

some XMLTV provider

[21:51:11]

sphery:

(and with a DVR you no longer need to live life on their schedule...)

[21:51:37]

iamlindoro:

And if you can't find *some* sort of EPG data, then using Myth is doubly useless

[21:51:42]

gucko:

but sometimes you just want to switch between channels and watch

[21:51:50]

gucko:

:(

[21:52:00]

wagnerrp:

gucko: and with mythtv, you can do that

[21:52:03]

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[21:52:06]

wagnerrp:

you can either type in the channels manually

[21:52:06]

gucko:

all I wanted something to watch tv. Something like ProgDVB or Kaffiene

[21:52:10]

wagnerrp:

or slowly cycle through them

[21:52:21]

wagnerrp:

or create a 'favorites' list that you cycle through much faster

[21:52:35]

gucko:

will the favorites idea is nice

[21:52:39]

gucko:

how to do that please?

[21:52:50]

wagnerrp:

dont know off hand, never had the use for it

[22:00:50]

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[22:36:25]

orictosh:

Hello Again, I was having problems with what believed to be mythtv crashing computer to login but i found that it was related to X crashing not Mythtv, solution was found in this launchpad bug report #760743

[22:38:28]

orictosh:

just thought I would post back as it's fixed, if anyone else has Unichrome drivers you could run into the smae problems as did when upgrading to natty

[22:39:29]

wagnerrp:

unicrome?

[22:40:39]

wagnerrp:

you would be well advised to abandon your VIA gear for something more modern

[22:40:50]

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[22:41:06]

orictosh:

yes my graphic card was a UniChrome Pro 3d/2d 128 bit on board @wagerrp agreed

[22:41:38]

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[22:45:15]

sphery:

yeah, one chrome is hardly enough these days... don't we need at least 8 chromes? ;)

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[22:50:02]

orictosh:

What would be a good card for AGP 8x used under Natty and MythTV?

[22:52:56]

wagnerrp:

a new motherboard that takes a PCIe card

[22:53:27]

wagnerrp:

seriously, there are no AGP cards worth recommending

[22:53:36]

wagnerrp:

and PCI cards some with some very serious limitations

[22:56:19]

orictosh:

thought that would the best option upgrade the mobo, mythtv is working again due the package installed from launchpad so the need can wait for the cash

[22:57:33]

orictosh:

night guys

[22:57:41]

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[23:28:36]

thecardsmith:

with lirc: after I run irrecord, should i be able to test that the codes work by using the generated config, starting "irw" and then pressing buttons?

[23:28:39]

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[23:28:47]

thecardsmith:

pressing buttons on the remote*

[23:29:21]

thecardsmith:

(i actually recorded the codes so i can blast them at my STB, but, i digress)

[23:30:07]

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[23:32:02]

wagnerrp:

wow... trillian

[23:32:09]

wagnerrp:

dont see that as an irc client often

[23:32:30]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: #9428 (gifs in themes) just came up as an expired infoneeded

[23:33:48]

Beirdo:

hmm

[23:34:01]

Beirdo:

I'll go throw something at him.

[23:34:12]

Beirdo:

not at his desk...

[23:34:22]

Beirdo:

the reporter sits 2 desks away from me

[23:35:00]

wagnerrp:

heh

[23:35:08]

Beirdo:

Let's just close it as fixed, and if he later finds it's still not working, he can kick my butt :)

[23:35:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:36:03]

Beirdo:

done

[23:36:36]

Beirdo:

pretty sure that was 0.24.1 time frame

[23:37:40]

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