| Monday, May 2nd, 2011, 00:01 UTC | ||
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| [01:59:21] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: as soon as you instantiate a QRunnable, it gets picked up by the threadpool? |
| [02:00:11] | wagnerrp: | ah, no... you have to pass it onto the QThreadPool |
| [02:04:00] | Beirdo: | correct. you pass it to the pool, and then use start() the same as a QThread IIRC |
| [02:04:27] | wagnerrp: | rather you run start on the threadpool, with the runnable as the argument |
| [02:04:35] | Beirdo: | ah, right ;) |
| [02:04:42] | wagnerrp: | qrunnable has no start(), which is why i initially asked |
| [02:04:44] | Beirdo: | it's a bit fuzzy :) |
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| [02:05:00] | Beirdo: | yeah, gotcha |
| [02:14:41] | wagnerrp: | does the thread pool support multiple queues? |
| [02:15:54] | wagnerrp: | basically... wondering if there would be any built in way to dump a hundred thumbnail tasks into the threadpool, and not flood it |
| [02:17:01] | wagnerrp: | or if i would need to write in some semaphore lock |
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| [02:27:09] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, you can create multiple thread pools. we have one for hte background image loading in mythui. |
| [02:27:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | s/one/a dedicated one/ |
| [02:27:24] | sphery: | yeah, it supports multiple – see http://www.develer.com/promo/workshop/enhanci . . . hreading.pdf , starting at slide 19 for a nice, quick rundown of some features |
| [02:27:31] | sphery: | too slow... |
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| [02:27:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | and I gave you like 13 minutes... |
| [02:28:19] | sphery: | yeah, I must have a sixth sense--not for when a question is asked, but for when someone is about to answer a question |
| [02:29:04] | sphery: | actually, though, that presentation must have been a very good one--I highly recommend reading through all the slides |
| [02:29:06] | sphery: | I learned a ton from it |
| [02:30:06] | wagnerrp: | im not talking about multiple pools, but multiple queues inside a pool |
| [02:30:24] | sphery: | ah, don't know about that |
| [02:30:30] | wagnerrp: | say youve got 10 threads allocated for general use, but at any time, only three can be used for the thumbnail generation task |
| [02:30:45] | Captain_Murdoch: | no, just one queue as far as I know. |
| [02:31:13] | Captain_Murdoch: | in that scenario, you'd just have multiple pools. |
| [02:31:30] | wagnerrp: | now i could set that up on my own, add a counter and a lock that upon completion and destruction of one task, it adds a new one |
| [02:31:44] | Captain_Murdoch: | wouldn't be exactly what you want, but as close as I know you can get. |
| [02:31:51] | Captain_Murdoch: | without making a MThreadPool. :) |
| [02:32:00] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so are you doing the official move of MythGallery into mythbackend, too? |
| [02:32:18] | wagnerrp: | but at some point, it seems like it would be better to simply run a single QThread |
| [02:32:20] | sphery: | (er, mythbackend + mythfrontend--meaning not a plugin?) |
| [02:32:29] | sphery: | or doing a backend plugin thing? |
| [02:32:42] | wagnerrp: | not as of yet, but im going to have to move the thumbnail generation into the backend |
| [02:33:13] | wagnerrp: | im thinking thumbnail generation, and a scanner every 15/30 minutes in the housekeeper |
| [02:33:22] | wagnerrp: | to check for new content, and generate new thumbs as needed |
| [02:33:41] | wagnerrp: | the frontend would continue just doing just-in-time as it always has |
| [02:33:44] | sphery: | so gallery schema stays separate and before kicking off the thread that does generation, you check for the schema? |
| [02:33:46] | wagnerrp: | (for local content) |
| [02:34:00] | wagnerrp: | there is no gallery schema, there are no gallery tables |
| [02:34:10] | wagnerrp: | just a couple settings in the table |
| [02:34:17] | sphery: | do we need the 15/30min scan? People hated the UPnP scan because it a) spun up HDDs every 30min, b) "was inefficient", c) makes their Atoms scream in pain |
| [02:34:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | can make a Thumbnails virtual storage group that is cleaned up by the housekeeper. |
| [02:34:36] | sphery: | (OK, the last may have been an embelishment, but :) |
| [02:34:58] | sphery: | ah, wow, no schema |
| [02:35:00] | wagnerrp: | doesnt have to be on a timer, could be triggered on a command like the video stuff |
| [02:35:21] | Captain_Murdoch: | I think it should be a media type and we track images except on removable media. |
| [02:35:55] | sphery: | yeah, that makes sense... if there's an image in <whichever SG>, make a thumbnail for it |
| [02:35:59] | Captain_Murdoch: | directories will get big unless we break out thumbnails into subdirs also. |
| [02:36:03] | sphery: | (and make it visible in gallery) |
| [02:36:18] | sphery: | yeah |
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| [02:36:32] | ** Captain_Murdoch has 32800 images in his main dir and that grows daily since my wife loves our DSLR. ** | |
| [02:36:48] | sphery: | I just don't like the idea of spinning up HDDs every 30min and checking all the gallery images to find that I haven't added new ones |
| [02:36:50] | ** Captain_Murdoch shouldn't change person in his comments. :) ** | |
| [02:37:17] | sphery: | and I /hate/ the idea of a "Disable UPnP Media^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HMythGallery Image Scan" setting |
| [02:37:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, ditto. I think we should catalog the images in the DB and perhaps keep track of which ones have thumbnails so we don't have to check. |
| [02:37:47] | wagnerrp: | the other option would be to create a schema (or more specifically use the primary) for images |
| [02:37:49] | sphery: | was so happy when we got rid of the UPnP media scan--and its disable setting |
| [02:38:06] | sphery: | Yeah, I don't mind the idea of a schema |
| [02:38:10] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, yeah, I prefer that idea. scan on demand and have the gallery just show what's in the DB. |
| [02:38:16] | wagnerrp: | catalog the images on the backend, use the existing hash functions to identify the content, and name the thumbnails, so its just one big folder |
| [02:38:16] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:38:33] | sphery: | one big folder? |
| [02:38:39] | wagnerrp: | for thumbnails |
| [02:38:41] | sphery: | ohh |
| [02:38:54] | wagnerrp: | like how mythvideo just has everything in one big folder |
| [02:39:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | that could get to be quite a big directory. |
| [02:39:06] | sphery: | ok, that would be fine with me--thought you meant display all 32K of Captain_Murdoch's images in a flat view in gallery :) |
| [02:39:09] | Captain_Murdoch: | you mean fanart, etc.? |
| [02:39:26] | wagnerrp: | of course at the time, that was due to a limitation of the filetransfer stuff not allowing deep writes beyond the root path |
| [02:39:26] | wagnerrp: | yes, fanart |
| [02:39:32] | sphery: | don't know how file systems do with that many files in a dir... |
| [02:39:55] | sphery: | but if they don't mind, I don't (especially since I have few images--and only put them there to see what mythgallery was about)' |
| [02:40:12] | Captain_Murdoch: | local is ok, NFS won't be as happy, but that's why you catalog instead of searching for images on the fly. |
| [02:40:23] | wagnerrp: | i would never be 'ls'ing that folder, just checking whether the image exists, and pulling it |
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| [02:40:45] | wagnerrp: | except for maybe a housekeeper task that cleans up thumbs for removed images |
| [02:40:46] | sphery: | yeah, but you'd be asking the file system to search through 32K thumbnail images in a dir for each thumb that's displayed |
| [02:41:12] | wagnerrp: | sphery: why would i? all i would be doing is pulling one specific file |
| [02:41:15] | Captain_Murdoch: | accessing a specific file is a lot faster than listing the dir. |
| [02:41:29] | wagnerrp: | the filename would be stored, so i would not have to search |
| [02:41:30] | sphery: | file system has to find the file |
| [02:41:41] | sphery: | low level stuff |
| [02:42:01] | sphery: | and I don't presume to know how any file system (let alone how different file systems) handle that |
| [02:42:18] | sphery: | I just know that file systems on a certain popular platform don't like to have many files |
| [02:42:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, could break it up similar to squid cache dirs using X digits of the hash at each dir level. |
| [02:42:40] | sphery: | granted, I quit using that platform in 1999, and we don't really support it well in MythTV, so... |
| [02:42:56] | kormoc: | sphery, os2 warp? |
| [02:42:57] | ** kormoc ducks ** | |
| [02:43:12] | NewBuntu81: | wtf is going on? |
| [02:43:14] | Captain_Murdoch: | ie, hash 12345678 has thumbnail 123/456/78.png |
| [02:43:24] | kormoc: | ext3 with dir_index works okay at those numbers, but it still breaks down after a 100k or so |
| [02:43:25] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i could do that |
| [02:43:32] | NewBuntu81: | CNN just said the US President is going to address us between 10:45 PM and 11 PM for an urgent update about National Security. |
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| [02:43:49] | wagnerrp: | 3 hex digits would be 4k files per level at most |
| [02:44:04] | wagnerrp: | i doubt i would need to do more than 1–2 levels of that |
| [02:44:10] | [R]: | NewBuntu81: as in now? |
| [02:44:40] | kormoc: | NewBuntu81, Osama Bin Laden is dead |
| [02:44:47] | kormoc: | least according to the rumors |
| [02:45:01] | wagnerrp: | seems CBS is carrying it |
| [02:45:25] | [R]: | URGENT NEWS:: USABreakingNews has confirmed from the House Intelligence Committee that Osama bin Laden is dead. The U.S. has his body now. |
| [02:45:52] | sphery: | kormoc: heh... I did see that OS once--friend of mine had it. |
| [02:46:15] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, I used it quite heavily. first 2.x then Warp 3.0. :) |
| [02:46:28] | sphery: | heh, cool |
| [02:46:29] | [R]: | 'the us has his body' sounds right... dont capture him alive |
| [02:46:48] | [R]: | they jsut interrupted my NBC show for this |
| [02:46:51] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: my concern with moving most of this into the backend would then be what do we do with local paths? |
| [02:47:13] | NewBuntu81: | Hmmm, ya think? I see it on CNN now too but...seems a bit overplayed to freak everyone out over that. |
| [02:47:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, that's why I'd like to have a 'media server' mini-backend. you'd run that anywhere you wanted to store media at. |
| [02:47:28] | wagnerrp: | of all the plugins, mythgallery is the one that stands to gain the most from access to local content |
| [02:47:29] | NewBuntu81: | I was thinking more like...we're under attack? Or we're now in another world war? Or something about the radiation from Japan... |
| [02:47:38] | sphery: | "freak everyone out" or prove that he's accomplishing things? |
| [02:47:44] | NewBuntu81: | hahaha, true |
| [02:48:02] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: ah, at which point the frontend would still access the content through a 'backend' |
| [02:48:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, yeah, ramping up that campaign (and I don't mean the one in the middle east). |
| [02:48:04] | sphery: | not that I'm actually taking any political side, here |
| [02:48:38] | sphery: | after all, the photoshopped birth certificate didn't seem to win everyone over, yet :) |
| [02:48:49] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, yeah. and you could pop a DVD in a frontend running mythmediaserver and watch it on any other frontend. |
| [02:49:17] | wagnerrp: | shoulder pads? i havent seen those since the 90s |
| [02:49:37] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, I heard that was Osama's birth certificate and they used whiteout to change the 'b' to a 's' in the first name. |
| [02:50:02] | sphery: | oooh, we need mythmediaserver--since I don't have a backend on my frontend, and I won't waste backend storage on mythvideo/mythgallery/mythmusic/... |
| [02:50:27] | sphery: | besides, wagnerrp already finished the one of my TODOs he was working on, so now it's time for him to move on to the next |
| [02:51:08] | wagnerrp: | sphery: heh... ive actually got the file transfer stuff stripped out of mainserver.cpp in my jobqueue branch |
| [02:51:14] | sphery: | (FWIW, I have been /extremely/ productive the last couple of months--finally getting my command-line parser and logger TODOs done (for me)) |
| [02:51:29] | wagnerrp: | wouldnt be all that difficult to move that further into a library, and included by a separate server |
| [02:51:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | once (ie, if) we (ie, wagnerrp) split(s) out the backend protocol, it will be easier to create a mythmediaserver. |
| [02:51:40] | sphery: | I'll work on mythtvd this week |
| [02:52:00] | sphery: | yeah, connections and such are going to be a mess without his rework |
| [02:52:19] | wagnerrp: | it compiles and runs, but i havent tested any transfers |
| [02:52:30] | wagnerrp: | and the delete handling needs to be cleaned up (a lot) |
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| [02:52:48] | mycosys: | who wants a lol? http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.ph . . . stcount=4036 |
| [02:52:50] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: heh, that's an interesting theory about the birth certificate |
| [02:52:54] | Captain_Murdoch: | cp -rp mythbackend/* mythmediasever/* && rm mythmediaserver/half_of_the_files.cpp. |
| [02:53:01] | Captain_Murdoch: | doh, messed that up.. |
| [02:55:21] | sphery: | mycosys: heh, I don't understand this love affair with "I'll put all my eggs in this VDPAU basket, and buy an expensive, power-constrained and inefficient CPU to use for a rather demanding task on my network" |
| [02:55:58] | sphery: | but I guess once you buy, you need to keep rationalizing or else you'll second-guess that purchase and suffer buyer's remorse |
| [02:56:38] | sphery: | besides, rationalizing would be something they could spend time thinking about while they're waiting on the frontend UI to catch up with them |
| [02:56:52] | sphery: | what with the Atom-melting alpha-pulse and all |
| [02:57:02] | mycosys: | i was more talkin about saying all you guys were doing analog capture from fta, and then saying that analog cards with onboard encoders use HEAPS more cpu than dvb-t |
| [02:57:03] | kormoc: | indeed |
| [02:57:39] | sphery: | mycosys: heh, yeah, that's not so accurate |
| [02:57:44] | mycosys: | oh, and that a backend'd most taxing task is recording |
| [02:57:45] | kormoc: | It's a fact! We all use analog framegrabbers for our HD tv captures! |
| [02:57:54] | mycosys: | lol kormoc |
| [02:57:54] | kormoc: | Mmm... Static digital |
| [02:59:19] | sphery: | kormoc: yeah, but we have to use a cluster of 3x3 analog cards to capture the 1920x1080--plus a beowulf to compress all those frames in time |
| [02:59:37] | sphery: | and that fast interconnect... whatever it's called |
| [02:59:56] | kormoc: | infiniband |
| [03:00:01] | sphery: | that's the one |
| [03:06:06] | ** mycosys is watching the mythbusters 'cold feet' episode – laughing so hard i have tears ** | |
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| [03:15:37] | banyan: | Hello all. I recently wiped the drive that contained my recordings but the database still has the recordings in it as though they are there. Is there a script that will take recording entries for nonexistent files and remove them from the database (ideally to be re-recorded)? |
| [03:16:17] | banyan: | 'cause I'm too dang lazy to sit around and hit "D" and then arrow up to "Yes and re-record" several hundred times, lol |
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| [03:17:44] | banyan: | I figured that would be something that is encountered enough that there might be a python script lurking somewhere to deal with it. |
| [03:18:00] | mycosys: | hide 'n' seek world champion 2001–2011 |
| [03:18:04] | mycosys: | lol |
| [03:18:22] | mycosys: | findorphans.py banyan |
| [03:19:14] | sphery: | banyan: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Find_orphans.py , don't know if it allows you to delete and allow re-record, but I'm guessing it does |
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| [03:20:22] | sphery: | banyan: it definitely does |
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| [03:21:52] | sphery: | (it always deletes recordings with missing files and sets them to re-record) |
| [03:22:08] | sphery: | er, it always sets to re-record when it deletes recordings with missing files |
| [03:22:15] | banyan: | so that's the default? I just did a google and found that script. |
| [03:22:22] | banyan: | (yay google) |
| [03:22:24] | sphery: | yeah, that's the currently supported one |
| [03:22:37] | sphery: | and it does exactly what you (and, I would expect, everyone else) want |
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| [03:22:50] | sphery: | for the re-record part |
| [03:25:01] | banyan: | Does it need to be run from the frontend? |
| [03:25:49] | mycosys: | backend |
| [03:25:58] | mycosys: | thats where the database is |
| [03:26:01] | sphery: | think it can be run from any system with the python bindings installed |
| [03:26:12] | sphery: | it will actually use the config.xml to find the backend and database |
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| [03:32:03] | banyan: | It's whingeing that MythError is not defined... |
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| [03:35:03] | kormoc: | feed is on at the whitehouse for anyone who cares |
| [03:35:20] | [R]: | did they wake him up |
| [03:35:24] | [R]: | or did he take a catnap earlier in the day? |
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| [03:36:03] | ** kormoc shrugs ** | |
| [03:36:10] | kormoc: | he's an hour late. Tisk tisk tisk |
| [03:36:19] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:36:20] | kormoc: | I expect better then myself out of my presidents |
| [03:36:29] | [R]: | they probabaly woke him up then |
| [03:36:34] | kormoc: | nah |
| [03:36:44] | kormoc: | they announced the talk at least an hour earlier |
| [03:37:02] | [R]: | i heard he was killed a week ago |
| [03:37:09] | [R]: | why would they have a midnight press announcemnt about it? |
| [03:37:20] | kormoc: | cause we'd want to know! |
| [03:37:35] | [R]: | lol |
| [03:38:27] | sphery: | banyan: you have the python bindings installed? |
| [03:39:41] | kormoc: | [R], he was killed today |
| [03:39:45] | [R]: | yeah i just heard |
| [03:39:50] | [R]: | so whats this 1 week ago stuff the ywere talking about |
| [03:40:03] | kormoc: | rumors/gossip |
| [03:40:05] | kormoc: | lies |
| [03:40:09] | [R]: | atleast they dindt try stupid crap like taking him alive |
| [03:40:17] | banyan: | I think the mythwiki page just has a missing import. |
| [03:40:43] | banyan: | I'm trying it again with MythError being imported, which isn't there on the web page. |
| [03:40:45] | kormoc: | [R], they likely did... it was officially a bullet... unofficially it was skinned alive with rusty razors... |
| [03:41:01] | [R]: | rofl |
| [03:41:12] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ^^ banyan's comment about MythError import? |
| [03:41:19] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Find_orphans.py |
| [03:42:10] | banyan: | Well, that didn't entirely fix it — now I get "AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'delete' " |
| [03:42:27] | banyan: | when I tell it to actually delete the orphaned entries. |
| [03:42:47] | sphery: | banyan: I know some people had problems running it until they updated to current 0.24-fixes |
| [03:42:55] | sphery: | (and note that it only works on 0.24 and above) |
| [03:43:08] | sphery: | but, really, it seems, 0.24-fixes and above |
| [03:43:17] | sphery: | i.e. not the 0.24 tarball |
| [03:43:48] | banyan: | I'm running 0.24.20101129–1 which is from the Fedora packages... |
| [03:44:08] | sphery: | that's likely not the version... mythbackend --version |
| [03:44:36] | sphery: | MythTV Version line |
| [03:44:38] | banyan: | 0.24–7 |
| [03:44:51] | banyan: | the other was the library API. |
| [03:45:21] | [R]: | kormoc: ah... last week he authorized the mission, but it didnt end till tonight |
| [03:46:04] | banyan: | hmm, sounds like I should turn on CNN! what's up? |
| [03:47:25] | sphery: | banyan: should be something like v0.25pre-1804-gfead3ce-dirty (but with 0.24) |
| [03:48:12] | wagnerrp: | sphery, banyan: a complaint about a lack of MythError likely indicates youre running an old version of the bindings |
| [03:48:57] | banyan: | Good grief! Now that the boogeyman is dead, how do you get the kids to behave? |
| [03:48:57] | wagnerrp: | banyan: run 'mythpython --version' |
| [03:49:25] | wagnerrp: | every time you misbehave, god kills a kitten |
| [03:49:38] | wagnerrp: | would somebody please think of the kittens |
| [03:49:49] | banyan: | Batman needs the riddler! Superman needs Lex Luthor. I predict widespread chaos and malaise. |
| [03:50:22] | banyan: | 0.24.0.2 |
| [03:50:36] | banyan: | If that's the version I should relay. |
| [03:50:54] | banyan: | (That's the bindings version) |
| [03:51:00] | wagnerrp: | can i see the exact error? |
| [03:51:15] | sphery: | kormoc: still haven't started to relax and believe it's not the disk, but I'm really starting to think that the SATA errors were caused by a bad SATA cable/cable connectors |
| [03:51:36] | kormoc: | sphery, hrm... weird, but fair 'nuff |
| [03:52:25] | sphery: | yeah... it's still possible it's something else (overheating), but i've been error free for a couple weeks--haven't done any serious stressing of it, though |
| [03:52:30] | sphery: | will see how this week goes |
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| [03:53:25] | banyan: | wagnerrp, please refer to http://pastebin.com/Dk3iMxcR |
| [03:53:51] | banyan: | so, presumably Bin Laden didn't die of kidney failure. |
| [03:54:04] | wagnerrp: | oh... right... that issue |
| [03:54:17] | wagnerrp: | you ran it, let it refresh, and then ran it again... right? |
| [03:54:33] | banyan: | So much for the plans to force him to be tried in Tanzania. |
| [03:54:46] | banyan: | I did the "Delete orphaned recordings" thing twice. |
| [03:55:08] | wagnerrp: | yes, its a race condition |
| [03:55:27] | wagnerrp: | you told the backend to delete the programs, and then immediately refreshed the list from the database before the backend had a chance to delete the files |
| [03:55:38] | banyan: | uh oh! Do i need to go find the back end's birth certificate? |
| [03:55:50] | wagnerrp: | between the time that you refreshed the list, and told it to delete a second time, the recordings had been deleted |
| [03:56:05] | wagnerrp: | so when i told it to retrieve the program in order to delete it |
| [03:56:05] | banyan: | oh! so it's actually complete. Let me check on that — that would be great. |
| [03:56:14] | wagnerrp: | the program did not exists in order to be retrieved |
| [03:56:26] | wagnerrp: | however i thought i fixed this fault a couple weeks back |
| [03:56:37] | wagnerrp: | the fault is still there, but its handled more gracefully |
| [03:57:02] | banyan: | Does the process conceivably take some time to complete? |
| [03:57:33] | banyan: | There were two hundred and something recordings originally and now there are 147. |
| [03:57:48] | wagnerrp: | the backend is slowly deleting them |
| [03:57:58] | wagnerrp: | it should continue to drop |
| [03:58:04] | banyan: | Yeah, I need to throw another gig of ram in that sucker. |
| [04:00:11] | banyan: | wagnerrp, did we discuss external raid controllers at one point? Did you say you have a drobo? |
| [04:00:24] | wagnerrp: | no, i have an areca |
| [04:00:32] | banyan: | I had to start over recently so I could easily make a switch. do you like it? |
| [04:00:45] | wagnerrp: | i love it, but i wouldnt buy another |
| [04:00:59] | banyan: | ah! sounds like you're married to it. lol |
| [04:01:02] | banyan: | why not? |
| [04:01:28] | wagnerrp: | id rather get a more powerful box loaded with memory, and do software raid |
| [04:01:30] | wagnerrp: | specifically zfs |
| [04:01:57] | wagnerrp: | and for the $650 i spent on the controller, that wouldnt be difficult to pull off |
| [04:04:36] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: the DeleteThread... you mess with it recently? I'm thinking that making it a QRunnable might help with #9757 |
| [04:04:48] | Beirdo: | but I don't wanna duplicate effort |
| [04:05:10] | banyan: | yeah, even a hardware raid card is in the $600 range. |
| [04:05:45] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: yeah, completely rewritten in my jobqueue branch |
| [04:06:04] | wagnerrp: | banyan: yes, i was referring to a hardware raid card |
| [04:06:07] | Beirdo: | interesting :) |
| [04:06:20] | Beirdo: | OK, so any redo I do now would be temporary then |
| [04:07:37] | banyan: | do you run raid 10? |
| [04:07:51] | banyan: | I read a rant on some website against raid 5 which is what I run currently. |
| [04:07:58] | wagnerrp: | the way i rewrote it, its still a qthread, but it times out and shuts down after 60 seconds (i think) of inactivity |
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| [04:08:04] | wagnerrp: | banyan: raid6 |
| [04:08:05] | banyan: | and which I am starting to agree with. |
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| [04:10:05] | banyan: | did you consider raid 10 and choose raid 6 instead? |
| [04:10:21] | wagnerrp: | nope, bought the card specifically for raid6 |
| [04:10:39] | wagnerrp: | and i bought the card for a hard drive count where raid10 doesnt much make sense |
| [04:10:54] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: well, I'll take a look at where you went with it anyways. :) I think the crash Otto saw might have been a DeleteThread crapping out |
| [04:11:07] | banyan: | Yeah, raid 10 basically just works with 4 drives. |
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| [04:11:53] | wagnerrp: | no, raid10 works with any count of drives that is a multiple of two non-zero numbers |
| [04:11:53] | kormoc: | only if you don't care about your data! |
| [04:11:56] | banyan: | wagnerrp, what would you buy now if you were to do it again? (and how big is your file system) |
| [04:12:12] | wagnerrp: | you can do 2x2, 2x3, 3x2, 3x3, 4x7, etc... |
| [04:12:12] | kormoc: | if you don't have three copies of your data, you have no idea when bits flip |
| [04:12:53] | wagnerrp: | if i were to do it again, (which i intend to in the not distant term) i would buy a big server, 6-core, or maybe dual processor |
| [04:13:03] | wagnerrp: | load it with memory, 16GB minimum, preferably ECC |
| [04:13:31] | wagnerrp: | and fill it with a number of cheap PCIe x4 dumb controller cards |
| [04:13:33] | banyan: | kormoc, that does make sense, now I'll have to go re-read that raid 10 rant page with an eye on the fault detection aspect. |
| [04:13:57] | wagnerrp: | raid6 (or raid z2) would provide enough redundancy for my tastes |
| [04:13:58] | banyan: | have one core just doing software raid basically? |
| [04:14:13] | wagnerrp: | and the checksumming would handle the bitrot issues kormoc is talking about |
| [04:14:24] | kormoc: | banyan, any fairly new proc will handle it without much overhead |
| [04:14:26] | wagnerrp: | im sure far more than one core would be doing software raid |
| [04:14:49] | wagnerrp: | any decent software RAID implementation would be multithreaded |
| [04:15:21] | banyan: | it could be processing intensive but the speed of the drives themselves limits the bandwidth. |
| [04:15:59] | wagnerrp: | a single disk will push better than 100MB/s from the media |
| [04:16:02] | banyan: | those partying yobs chanting "USA USA" are not thinking much about how that looks overseas... eep... |
| [04:16:18] | wagnerrp: | and right now, ive got 14 drives in the machine |
| [04:16:43] | banyan: | holy crap! are they all in the array? or are a couple on / and /boot? |
| [04:17:10] | wagnerrp: | 9 in the main storage array at 5TB usable, two more in a mirror for os, three more spare for recordings, and spill over |
| [04:17:14] | wagnerrp: | (im out of room in the array) |
| [04:17:33] | wagnerrp: | (and to be honest, im quickly running out of room in the spill over) |
| [04:17:46] | banyan: | I used to have /var as my raid 5 which I decided was a terrible idea and changed it to simply being the myth stuff. |
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| [04:18:09] | wagnerrp: | myth stuff really shouldnt be in raid5 |
| [04:18:23] | wagnerrp: | raid5 should be left for archival near-line usage |
| [04:18:58] | wagnerrp: | for direct usage, you want raid1, or depending on the usage characteristics raid10 |
| [04:19:04] | banyan: | I just want the volume to be larger than a single drive. I imagine lvm would work just as well. |
| [04:19:18] | kormoc: | or just do multiple volumes (for myth stuff) |
| [04:19:26] | wagnerrp: | why do you care how large the volume is? |
| [04:19:42] | wagnerrp: | mythtv will load balance between volumes for recordings just fine |
| [04:19:53] | banyan: | because I tend to fall behind watching Charlie Rose lol. |
| [04:19:54] | wagnerrp: | and at least videos can be stored across multiple volumes |
| [04:20:02] | banyan: | I wasn't aware that myth supported that. |
| [04:20:10] | wagnerrp: | it has since 0.20 |
| [04:20:19] | Beirdo: | oh wow, you really redid it a lot, there, wagnerrp :) I don't suppose you are ready to merge to master yet? |
| [04:20:31] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: nope, not anywhere close |
| [04:20:34] | Beirdo: | heh |
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| [04:20:36] | Beirdo: | OK |
| [04:20:53] | Beirdo: | So I guess I'll do the throwaway fix in the meantime |
| [04:21:04] | wagnerrp: | ok |
| [04:21:12] | Beirdo: | it looks to me like you nuked that little thread completely |
| [04:21:27] | wagnerrp: | banyan: raid5 and raid6 should really only be used for bulk redundant storage |
| [04:22:16] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: it now exists in mythtv/programs/backend/filetransfer.cpp |
| [04:22:51] | Beirdo: | ahhh |
| [04:22:52] | wagnerrp: | runs every half second, at which it either deletes one file or truncates, according to the delete slowly rule |
| [04:23:02] | Beirdo: | I like that |
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| [04:23:44] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: and after 20 seconds of idle time, where it hasnt done anything, it self terminates |
| [04:23:46] | banyan: | but until I had to wipe it as part of a bad upgrade of fedora, I had data on that array for years, even with 2 of the 3 drives having been replaced. |
| [04:24:01] | wagnerrp: | so it is creating a new thread rather than running in the pool |
| [04:24:06] | banyan: | ironically it was the complications of raid 5 that made it impossible to retain. |
| [04:24:08] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: nice. |
| [04:24:08] | wagnerrp: | but its not a persistent thread |
| [04:24:37] | Beirdo: | that's fine. for short term, I'm going to convert it to a QRunnable to try to get around the bug Otto found |
| [04:24:55] | Beirdo: | but once you're ready to merge, I like your implementation MUCH better |
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| [04:26:32] | wagnerrp: | although it seems line 313, i need to move the start outside the if context |
| [04:26:44] | wagnerrp: | since the thread doesnt delete, it just terminates |
| [04:27:01] | wagnerrp: | and then i need to move some of the constructor guts into run() to compensate |
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| [04:28:29] | Beirdo: | Both the DeleteThread and the TruncateThread are on my hit list right now |
| [04:28:45] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: ive also got to hook up the signals properly, so recordings get cleaned out properly |
| [04:28:54] | Beirdo: | yeah :) |
| [04:28:55] | wagnerrp: | since that deletethread only works on files, not recordings |
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| [04:29:04] | Beirdo: | um, what? |
| [04:29:19] | wagnerrp: | the rewritten deletethread only works on files |
| [04:29:28] | wagnerrp: | and sends signals as to when and what it deletes |
| [04:29:33] | Beirdo: | oooh, so not quite finished then :) |
| [04:29:37] | Beirdo: | gotcha |
| [04:29:39] | wagnerrp: | the intent is it sends signals to something else which then deletes the metadata |
| [04:30:01] | Beirdo: | makes sense |
| [04:30:07] | wagnerrp: | it was intended to be used for a generic media server, rather than a backend |
| [04:30:30] | wagnerrp: | like the mythmediaserver capt'm was talking about earlier |
| [04:30:39] | wagnerrp: | that would be run on frontends for local media access |
| [04:30:45] | Beirdo: | ahh |
| [04:32:48] | wagnerrp: | at that point, the frontend would never have local content access |
| [04:33:07] | wagnerrp: | and all the duplicate code paths for media access in mythvideo (and eventually mythmusic and mythgallery) would be gone |
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| [04:33:17] | wagnerrp: | it would simply access the content from the local media server, rather than a remote backend |
| [04:33:29] | wagnerrp: | which would include things like the mediamonitor and optical disk access |
| [04:33:45] | Beirdo: | makes sense |
| [04:34:24] | wagnerrp: | a bit more circuitous to access the content, but considerably more maintainable |
| [04:34:35] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [04:34:41] | Beirdo: | I'm all for more maintainable |
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| [05:16:16] | banyan: | well, that script did work! thanks. (once I added the import for MythError) |
| [05:17:30] | banyan: | You guys are always fun to talk to. Some times other IRC channels that are supposedly here for help seem actually to be full of people who are more interested in snickering at you or deriding you for getting into trouble than they are in just answering questions. |
| [05:17:43] | banyan: | Not that I'm bitter! lol |
| [05:17:57] | wagnerrp: | hehe... your hard drive failed |
| [05:18:00] | ** wagnerrp snickers ** | |
| [05:18:49] | wagnerrp: | weve all done it |
| [05:19:11] | wagnerrp: | i lost my first mythtv install to a failed 200GB drive, on a spanned LVM partition with another 300GB |
| [05:19:16] | wagnerrp: | all recordings lost |
| [05:19:50] | wagnerrp: | and shortly after i got that raid card, a SNAFU with the hotswappable bays i was using resulted in a re-initialization of the array |
| [05:20:16] | wagnerrp: | which just happened to occur shortly after i had deleted and sold off the drives previously containing that data |
| [05:20:32] | wagnerrp: | but... live and learn |
| [05:25:18] | wagnerrp: | the measures we take are almost always reactionary rather than preventative |
| [05:33:05] | mycosys: | personally – they arent that important |
| [05:33:22] | mycosys: | i know i should backup, but i would prefer more capacity |
| [05:33:41] | mycosys: | the OS is backed up, but not recordings or videos |
| [05:34:15] | wagnerrp: | id rather spend an extra couple hundred dollars, than the hundreds of hours needed to re-rip my DVD/HDDVD/Bluray collection |
| [05:34:44] | wagnerrp: | not to mention the months of recordings ive got archived in the array and not on optical disk |
| [05:37:06] | mycosys: | totally wise – just nothin i have i would really be upset if i lost |
| [05:37:26] | mycosys: | spose there are a few – they are backed up on multiple machines |
| [05:37:42] | wagnerrp: | its more a function of time, than cost |
| [05:37:51] | wagnerrp: | recovering takes a /LOT/ of time |
| [05:37:58] | wagnerrp: | rebuilding an array, not so much |
| [05:40:04] | mycosys: | yeah – wouldnt for me – setup a few record rules and ur off |
| [05:40:26] | mycosys: | like i said – the OS is backed up – just restore that |
| [05:40:30] | wagnerrp: | thats often fine for cable stuff |
| [05:40:44] | wagnerrp: | but so few broadcast tv shows end up in syndication |
| [05:42:35] | mycosys: | there is always the alternative that isnt talked about here for stuff that isnt re-broadcast i really care about lol |
| [05:43:41] | wagnerrp: | buying in store and breaking DMCA to rip it? |
| [05:44:12] | wagnerrp: | thats the only alternative to recording around here |
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| [05:50:44] | AndyCap: | wagnerrp: btw, what would you run ZFS on? |
| [05:51:11] | wagnerrp: | freebsd |
| [05:51:42] | AndyCap: | I guess it's solid in recent releases then? :) |
| [05:51:59] | wagnerrp: | been using it since 7.something |
| [05:52:06] | wagnerrp: | its been solid the whole 8.x branch |
| [05:52:20] | wagnerrp: | and could possibly become the primary development platform from here forward |
| [05:52:42] | AndyCap: | :) |
| [05:52:53] | wagnerrp: | with solaris getting canned, and apple dropping plans for support of it |
| [05:53:22] | AndyCap: | oh, I thought you meant your primary development platform |
| [05:54:10] | wagnerrp: | oh, its been my primary development platform for as long as ive been running mythtv |
| [05:54:32] | AndyCap: | but are oracle really dumpinng solaris? |
| [05:54:33] | wagnerrp: | been using freebsd longer than ive been using linux |
| [05:54:56] | wagnerrp: | i believe so |
| [05:55:13] | ** AndyCap wonders what they spent the money to buy ** | |
| [05:55:32] | wagnerrp: | patents? |
| [05:55:39] | AndyCap: | mysql isn't worth that much. patents perhaps yes |
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| [06:03:22] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: apple dropping plans to support zfs was done awhile ago right? |
| [06:03:37] | wagnerrp: | yeah, it was supposed to be part of 10.6 |
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| [06:04:15] | Shadow__X: | would of been nice to have that support especially with the addition of lightpeak |
| [06:05:01] | wagnerrp: | not sure how the two are related |
| [06:05:51] | Shadow__X: | the idea of having a large external enclosure that is connected to the machine through a highspeed connection |
| [06:06:05] | Shadow__X: | and still having redundancy without needing to use raid |
| [06:06:41] | wagnerrp: | like an sff-8087 cable? |
| [06:07:27] | wagnerrp: | every bit as fast as lightpeak (10gbps), good for two meters |
| [06:07:32] | Shadow__X: | sure except lightpeak provides much higher throughput. But in the general jist of it sure |
| [06:07:44] | Shadow__X: | really sff 8087 provides 10gbps? |
| [06:07:48] | wagnerrp: | and plenty of existing products on the market that support it |
| [06:08:15] | wagnerrp: | sff-8087 is just a multilane SAS connector |
| [06:08:26] | wagnerrp: | 4 3gbps channels in one cable |
| [06:08:34] | wagnerrp: | rated for two meters |
| [06:08:43] | Shadow__X: | sure plenty of existing products support it but when you are limited on ports having something like lightpeak is preferable as you normally need a controller card to get 8087 |
| [06:09:18] | wagnerrp: | you can get eSAS controllers for as little as $100 |
| [06:09:33] | wagnerrp: | and its going to mean you can connect it directly to drives, with a cheap HBA |
| [06:09:48] | wagnerrp: | as opposed to requiring an HBA with an internal controller |
| [06:10:54] | Shadow__X: | i fully agree. I was just envisioning being able to have a large external enclosure being able to be connected to an imac while still maintaining highspeed |
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| [06:11:07] | wagnerrp: | or, you could use a more complex one with a port replicator, good for up to 600 devices on that single cable |
| [06:11:46] | wagnerrp: | each SAS channel is good for 3 levels of splitters, with 5 devices each, 125 devices per channel |
| [06:12:32] | wagnerrp: | if your concerned about actually being able to use the ~1GBps you can get out of an -8087 or lightpeak connector |
| [06:12:43] | wagnerrp: | youre going to need far more power than would be found in an imac |
| [06:13:30] | Shadow__X: | well sure but i was considering beable able to appreciate speeds higher than what usb or fw800 offers |
| [06:13:58] | wagnerrp: | eSATA already beats them both by a wide margin |
| [06:14:01] | mycosys: | thus is proven – intel are great at marketing |
| [06:14:46] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp: yup but imacs dont have esata. Thus proving most apple products do not have as many ports as a high end motherboard |
| [06:14:57] | wagnerrp: | eSATA at 3gbps will still probably beat out 5gbps USB3.0 |
| [06:15:01] | Shadow__X: | i am not rejecting products that are already mainstream as i agree |
| [06:15:27] | wagnerrp: | youre buying an imac, with everything integrated |
| [06:15:29] | Shadow__X: | yup sure but lightpeak will be in macs usb3 may not be and as we have already seen esata wont be there unless you mod it |
| [06:15:40] | wagnerrp: | how dare you clutter its perfection with dirty external devices |
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| [06:15:47] | wagnerrp: | for shame |
| [06:15:54] | Shadow__X: | yeah it probably is just my fault |
| [06:16:32] | Shadow__X: | its just supposed to stay minimalistic |
| [06:17:30] | wagnerrp: | were it supposed to be minimalistic, it wouldnt be so flashy |
| [06:17:40] | wagnerrp: | it would be black, with a rubberized coating |
| [06:17:45] | wagnerrp: | not glossy white |
| [06:17:51] | kc (kc!~Casper@unaffiliated/kc) has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) | |
| [06:18:02] | wagnerrp: | shiny things catch people's eyes |
| [06:18:07] | Shadow__X: | s/glossy white/aluminum but yes |
| [06:18:13] | Shadow__X: | for the new ones anyway |
| [06:19:22] | Shadow__X: | but yeah i agree with what your saying i just had the idea it would be nice to have an imac and still be able to have a large working pool on my desktop for inbetween work and still have higher performance than lets say a fw800 multiple drive enclosure |
| [06:20:36] | wagnerrp: | well you can either have the small mobile system that comes in an imac, or you can have a workstation... its a tradeoff |
| [06:20:59] | wagnerrp: | and the utility of a workstation goes beyond just the installed CPU |
| [06:21:25] | Shadow__X: | that it does |
| [06:21:41] | Shadow__X: | expansion slots alone are very nice to have |
| [06:21:48] | Shadow__X: | especially highspeed ones |
| [06:22:00] | ** mycosys points out mobile workstations ** | |
| [06:22:28] | ** Shadow__X points at his m6400 ** | |
| [06:23:12] | Shadow__X: | i was surprised the included esata port supports the port multiplier on my esata enclosure |
| [06:23:14] | ** mycosys hugs his e6400 ** | |
| [06:23:57] | mycosys: | same machine but for the gpu i believe? |
| [06:24:53] | Shadow__X: | and cpu afaik. The m6400 could go up to a quad core c2d and the gpu was either a ati or your choice of either quadro 2700m or a 3600m? quadro |
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| [06:25:09] | Shadow__X: | fits dual hd among other things |
| [06:25:28] | Shadow__X: | http://www.dell.com/us/dfb/p/precision-m6400/pd |
| [06:25:48] | kormoc: | AndyCap, mysql *is* worth a ton to oracle |
| [06:26:15] | mycosys: | yup – this either had the intel, or the quadroNVS160M that i have |
| [06:26:19] | kormoc: | AndyCap, providing a trusted way for mysql shops to transition to Oracle is huge |
| [06:26:30] | mycosys: | running dual hdd atm |
| [06:26:41] | Shadow__X: | ah ok |
| [06:27:33] | mycosys: | jus about to pop in an ssd |
| [06:27:52] | mycosys: | but need to get my i7 up 1st to burn my technet w7 lol |
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| [06:28:42] | Shadow__X: | the response time for ssd's are really addicting |
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| [06:29:15] | mycosys: | hence buying 2 lol |
| [06:29:26] | mycosys: | one for lappy, 1 for desky |
| [06:29:29] | Shadow__X: | oh also m6400 has 4 ram dims |
| [06:29:37] | mycosys: | sweeeeet |
| [06:29:42] | mycosys: | i only have 2 |
| [06:29:53] | Shadow__X: | the m6500 can go upto 32gb of ram apparently |
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| [06:30:24] | mycosys: | nice |
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| [06:30:38] | mycosys: | e/m6500 also take quads |
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| [06:55:21] | AndyCap: | kormoc: I don't think buying up mysql builds trust with mysql users. |
| [06:55:38] | kormoc: | AndyCap, users don't spend the money. Business people do |
| [06:56:14] | kormoc: | AndyCap, and with Oracle having products that span both database servers, they can hook IT Management much easier |
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| [07:15:45] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: since it seems youre still up... |
| [07:15:58] | wagnerrp: | whats the purpose of the split between VideoMetadata and VideoMetadataImp? |
| [07:16:08] | kormoc: | gmail down for anyone else? |
| [07:16:55] | wagnerrp: | works for me |
| [07:16:59] | kormoc: | huh |
| [07:17:24] | Beirdo: | yes, seems to be down here too |
| [07:17:40] | wagnerrp: | must be a seattle/northwest thing |
| [07:17:42] | Beirdo: | and docs.google.com too |
| [07:17:59] | kormoc: | Good. I was hoping it wasn't my dual vpn routing oddly |
| [07:17:59] | wagnerrp: | your local farm is offline |
| [07:18:12] | Beirdo: | well, the servers you hit are geo-based, so... |
| [07:18:33] | Beirdo: | yeah, don't think your VPN is to blame tehre |
| [07:20:56] | wagnerrp: | or was that just one last ticket close before bed |
| [07:21:35] | wagnerrp: | any idea what 'Imp' might stand for? |
| [07:21:51] | wagnerrp: | its a private class stored inside VideoMetadata |
| [07:24:56] | Beirdo: | not me, no |
| [07:25:05] | Beirdo: | oooh, look, gmail's back for me |
| [07:26:32] | kormoc: | aye, for me as well |
| [07:28:27] | Beirdo: | and now I head for bed. Ciao ;) |
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| [09:29:54] | amybunny: | hey folks. I was wondering. Can you run mythTV in a less graphical, shell-based way? |
| [09:43:16] | toeb: | do you mean running a frontend without a xserver? |
| [09:43:42] | amybunny: | that would work too. Any non-xserver interface. |
| [09:43:55] | amybunny: | I don't have any X related stuff on this PC. |
| [09:52:32] | lyricnz: | mythweb? |
| [09:52:32] | lyricnz: | or run a native myth frontend |
| [09:52:32] | lyricnz: | on your PC |
| [09:56:08] | amybunny: | is X a dependency for mythtv? |
| [09:57:41] | toeb: | depends on which part of myth you are talking about... mythbackend does not need X |
| [09:58:49] | amybunny: | can I load up playlists of mp3s, etc on one PC and stream them over a network without using a frontend? |
| [10:02:53] | amybunny: | the basic idea is I want to do storage/streaming backend stuff over this old *BSD machine and handle the frontend on one of my Ubuntu machines, or over a web interface. |
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| [10:11:34] | toeb: | i don't use myhtmusic but what you describe about storage/streaming is pretty much what mythtv is designed for |
| [10:11:52] | ** amybunny nods ** | |
| [10:12:39] | amybunny: | to be honest, I'm getting a lot of install errors off the BSD ports version, so I'm seeing how my backup plan goes (using my laptop[Xubuntu] to handle all the heavy lifting) |
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| [11:30:52] | justinh: | pfft. looking at other android 2.2 ROMs. Here's one, but among the listed non-working features is.. TELEPHONY. Why are people wasting their time? |
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| [11:39:27] | justinh: | mythmusic doesn't do streaming btw.. at least not yet |
| [11:39:58] | justinh: | if headlessly streaming music across yer home network is what you seek, mythmusic may not be for you |
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| [11:46:24] | justinh: | I use squeezeserver, personally. But only because the clients don't look like sucky 1980s UIs like those for MPD |
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| [11:59:53] | toeb: | justinh: what client do you use for the squeezeserver? |
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| [14:18:29] | sphery: | heh, gotta love spammers... "Subject: You visit illegal websites", message, "Sir/Madam, we have logged your IP-address on more than 40 illegal Websites. Important: Please answer our questions! The list of questions are attached. nc qa gpc" (with a file "Document.zip" attached). (Got several versions of it last night, with the letters following, "attached" different, and some using "document.zip") |
| [14:19:28] | sphery: | oh, and sent by the FBI, it says |
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| [14:32:20] | justinh: | toeb: squeezedroid on my phone, the web server client page thingy & squeezeslave on my laptop |
| [14:34:06] | justinh: | sigh. why the hell does anybdy want to overclock their phone? |
| [14:34:20] | justinh: | starting to see I may have no choice but to make my own ROMs |
| [14:34:57] | sid3windr: | cyanojustinmod |
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| [14:37:01] | toeb: | justinh: so you don't have any integration with your mythfrontend? |
| [14:37:14] | justinh: | toeb: nope. I use a separate USB soundcard :-) |
| [14:37:36] | justinh: | starts up automagically, independent of mythfrontend |
| [14:37:59] | justinh: | goes into my AV receiver so all I need do is turn it on, then to the right input |
| [14:38:25] | justinh: | integration into mythtv would be nice, but then I'd lose all the nifty remote control stuff |
| [14:38:54] | justinh: | and er.. I know there's an unofficial plugin, but tbh I'd rather not waste my time |
| [14:40:06] | justinh: | sid3windr: it's ridiculous. last rom I tried seemed great but kept losing connection to the phone network |
| [14:40:45] | justinh: | and these are all allegedly by users of the same model phone as I have.. so lord only knows what else is wrong |
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| [14:43:13] | sid3windr: | :) |
| [14:43:54] | justinh: | reading release notes this morning one even said 'telephony isn't working'. Er... NOOB error |
| [14:46:40] | justinh: | oh for pity's sakes. posting image annoucements on forums.. with 200 page long threads |
| [14:46:44] | justinh: | GO DIE IN A FIRE |
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| [15:23:54] | DexterF: | hi |
| [15:25:12] | DexterF: | can I install mythtv like any other app or does it have to runu standalone? |
| [15:25:37] | wagnerrp: | MythTV can run along side other applications on a desktop |
| [15:26:12] | wagnerrp: | however it does expect to have dedicated control over your tuner hardware, and either run non-stop, or have control over the systems shutdown/boot |
| [15:26:41] | wagnerrp: | without that, the scheduler will not be able to function properly |
| [15:27:55] | DexterF: | well, I dont need the scheduler at the moment, I rather want an impression of the interface and functionality. the long term idea is to have it with xbmc or even standalone if it fits my purpose |
| [15:28:16] | DexterF: | I rather wouldn't have it mess with the scripts |
| [15:28:21] | wagnerrp: | theres no point to using MythTV or any other DVR without a scheduler |
| [15:28:27] | wagnerrp: | mess with the scripts? |
| [15:29:06] | DexterF: | well, you said it has control over shutdown/boot. |
| [15:29:20] | wagnerrp: | yes, as in you do not do it manually |
| [15:29:33] | wagnerrp: | the backend would decide when its good and idle, and shut down automatically |
| [15:29:46] | wagnerrp: | and set a timer to allow it to boot back up when the next show is ready to record |
| [15:30:28] | DexterF: | I'm not after a scheduler after all. I need a good DVB interface that works with a remote and provides timeshift. |
| [15:30:35] | DexterF: | that's all. |
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| [15:31:00] | wagnerrp: | get a cheap consumer DVR |
| [15:31:40] | DexterF: | don't want another device around. |
| [15:32:24] | wagnerrp: | the point of a DVR is that you dont watch the show when it is aired, you watch the show when you feel like it |
| [15:32:42] | wagnerrp: | and the point of mythtv and other software PVRs is that you can throw as many tuners and as much hard drive space at the problem as you want |
| [15:32:54] | wagnerrp: | rather than being constrained by the single tuner and limited hard drive space of commercial units |
| [15:33:29] | wagnerrp: | if you just want to pause/rewind livetv, it just seems like a whole lot of hassle to go through |
| [15:35:32] | justinh: | what about VDR then? |
| [15:36:28] | wagnerrp: | would livetv with vdr be another example of using the software improperly? |
| [15:36:34] | wagnerrp: | s/would/wouldnt/ |
| [15:36:55] | justinh: | not sure, but VDRs main purpose has always been watching livetv AFAIK |
| [15:37:14] | wagnerrp: | bleh |
| [15:38:35] | justinh: | aaaaaaaaaaaaanyhoo... give mythtv a chance & you never know you might find yourself suddenly no longer wanting to be bound by TV schedules.. where you end up recording all the shows you might conceivably want to watch when you want :-) |
| [15:39:21] | justinh: | me, I started using mythtv to augment the stuff I was doing with my VCR. Heh |
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| [15:43:17] | DexterF: | I watch about 3 shows per week – *when* I feel like TV I want it to work and have some basic convenience, but I don't really schedule anything. I guess mythtv is overblown for me, but it's the only soft I could think of that is meant for watching tv with a meant-to-be-remote-controlled frontend. |
| [15:43:45] | DexterF: | basically kaffeine does what I want but it rather takes a keyb/mouse |
| [15:43:46] | justinh: | VDR, but then its own setup is also pretty far from simple |
| [15:44:34] | justinh: | you know you can get lirc to do keyboard/mouse stuff right? |
| [15:44:47] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: seems your Feldman 'friend' is now gracing mythtvtalk with his proposals |
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| [15:45:04] | justinh: | oh and kaffeine can use lirc too |
| [15:45:11] | mycosys: | dexterf – have you considered that with a scheduler those whows could be ones actually worth watching? |
| [15:45:21] | justinh: | http://kaffeine.kde.org/?q=faq#question15 |
| [15:45:47] | justinh: | anyway, I probably only watch 2 hours of TV a week |
| [15:46:01] | justinh: | the stuff *I* want to watch ;-) |
| [15:46:17] | justinh: | watch/get to watch |
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| [15:50:08] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: i could have sworn weve had this discussion on the mailing list several times before |
| [15:50:24] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: I'm sorry, which discussion? |
| [15:50:36] | wagnerrp: | "what can we record with the HDHRP" |
| [15:50:48] | devinheitmueller: | I would assume so. |
| [15:50:56] | devinheitmueller: | Are you suggesting I said something incorrect on the ML? |
| [15:51:07] | wagnerrp: | no, i just saw you commented on it |
| [15:51:34] | devinheitmueller: | We should probably just have a FAQ page or something that we can point people to when these sorts of questions come up. |
| [15:51:45] | wagnerrp: | seems like every couple months, someone else discovers the device, and then there is a thread a dozen mails long minimum discussing just what 'copy freely' means, and what you can access |
| [15:52:01] | devinheitmueller: | It's not surprising to find that some people are new to the ML or don't read all the archives. |
| [15:52:55] | wagnerrp: | i suppose i could update the http://mythtv.org/wiki/Silicondust_HDHomeRun_Prime page with more explicitly outlined capabilities |
| [15:53:13] | devinheitmueller: | Probably a good idea, and then when the thread starts you can immediately post the link. |
| [15:53:20] | wagnerrp: | or maybe the Recording_Digital_Cable page |
| [15:54:17] | devinheitmueller: | Sure, assuming it properly splits out US based content versus other regions. |
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| [15:58:21] | DexterF: | mycosys: the shows I wanna watch I get on dvd/bd. tv is for news and maybe if something's on I ddin't bother to buy but happen to feel like. |
| [15:59:15] | mycosys: | i cant remember the last time i watched something live – too irritating not to have commercial skipping |
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| [16:06:57] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, awesome... |
| [16:07:13] | mycosys: | he sure seems to be lol |
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| [16:09:05] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: apparently he was about to embark on three months of development on a wizard-based setup of mythtv |
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| [16:09:46] | wagnerrp: | i directed him towards the work thats being done currently for the www setup |
| [16:10:48] | wagnerrp: | and then kindly directed him towards industry examples of how replaytv got hammered for automatic commercial skipping, and tivo has been intentionally avoiding it |
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| [16:25:45] | mycosys: | night fellas |
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| [16:42:56] | justinh: | wagnerrp: just read that. plus, tivo might be interested in suing him for the company name :P |
| [16:43:15] | wagnerrp: | but... hes only using 'ivo' |
| [16:43:30] | justinh: | give em an inch... |
| [16:43:48] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: but Apple has gone after people for sticking "i" in front of names, and that's only one letter! |
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| [16:44:00] | justinh: | it's obviously supposed to ring of 'tivo' |
| [16:44:16] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i was actually going to mention that in my post, but somewhere in looking up the details of earlier commercial ad detection, i forgot about it |
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| [16:45:29] | justinh: | heh. domain no longer active, it seems |
| [16:48:46] | justinh: | huh? Brad Templeton is consulting for them |
| [16:50:32] | wagnerrp: | meaning... he managed to snag a couple naive community members? |
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| [16:51:29] | justinh: | if anybody is going to succeed at that sort of thing it's going to be google but FWIW I don't think they're bothered whether they succeed or not – so long as nobody else does |
| [16:52:14] | wagnerrp: | isnt the HDMI input on the googletv write-only? |
| [16:52:16] | justinh: | paying for hardware via advertising? that just sounds evil |
| [16:52:47] | wagnerrp: | like the hardware is specifically designed such that the stream cannot be read from, only altered |
| [16:53:09] | wagnerrp: | yeah, ad subsidized hardware |
| [16:53:11] | justinh: | yeah, it's no DVR, but it's looking towards online delivery isn't it? |
| [16:53:27] | wagnerrp: | no, its a dvr |
| [16:53:29] | justinh: | and they'll be able to do whatever the hell they want |
| [16:53:38] | justinh: | googleTV I mean. No dvr |
| [16:53:45] | wagnerrp: | oh, googletv, right |
| [16:53:55] | justinh: | commodity price hardware, too |
| [16:53:56] | wagnerrp: | no dvr, just overlay with internet sourced content |
| [16:54:20] | wagnerrp: | well its a full (low end) computer |
| [16:54:37] | wagnerrp: | its running the same embedded Atom as the boxee box |
| [16:54:50] | justinh: | aye but would you want to run even a minimal mythtv install on that price point? |
| [16:54:53] | wagnerrp: | 1.2Ghz single core atom, integrated graphics and video decoder |
| [16:55:16] | wagnerrp: | if we supported the video decoder, it would be every bit as useful as the existing ION systems |
| [16:55:30] | justinh: | no, I mean a backend and frontend :) |
| [16:55:53] | justinh: | what I'm saying is, for best results folks need a *real* computer, which is going to cost real cash |
| [16:56:20] | justinh: | so he'd have to sell loads of ads to make that 'affordable' – i.e. to compete with other products |
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| [16:57:31] | justinh: | methinks the best anybody would get away with would be to insert their own advertising alongside existing stuff rather than replacing it |
| [16:57:48] | justinh: | that, and put ads in the UI.. in the guide... sponsor suggestions... |
| [16:58:31] | kormoc: | Yeah, it harks back to the late 90's ad supported hardware that worked out so very well |
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| [16:58:51] | kormoc: | something like google tv, boxee, or plex is the future, but not yet |
| [16:59:10] | kormoc: | Before that happens, we need a unified media db that maps all the different sources together |
| [16:59:30] | devinheitmueller: | I remember the commercials for "PeoplePC" where they gave away a free PC. |
| [16:59:50] | justinh: | wonder how popular the ad-supported versions of MS Office are |
| [17:00:13] | devinheitmueller: | justinh: that's what Clippy was *really* invented for! |
| [17:01:04] | kormoc: | I want to be able to watch all the available episodes of a show without caring if it's from netflix, abc.com, etc |
| [17:01:18] | kormoc: | the unification just doesn't exist yet |
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| [17:15:35] | toad_: | i just caught mythcommflag using 17.5GB VIRT and 8.9GB RES ... known bug? |
| [17:15:56] | toad_: | and are there any UK TV channels for which it works reliably? we generally don't bother because it makes mistakes so often :| |
| [17:17:29] | toad_: | of course i forgot to get the command line arguments before killing it so i don't know what file it was transcoding – sorry :| |
| [17:17:43] | toad_: | should i file a bug or something? it could be hard to reproduce? |
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| [17:22:33] | ** toad_ is asking whether there is any point filing a bug given i probably can't reproduce it ** | |
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| [18:05:52] | noaXess_kubuntu: | hey |
| [18:06:04] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i upgraded from 0.23 to 0.24 on backend an frontend... two seperate machines.. |
| [18:06:24] | noaXess_kubuntu: | now if i start livetv or watch recorded shows, the video is slow and no audio |
| [18:07:11] | noaXess_kubuntu: | both backend and frontend are on ubuntu 10.04.2 |
| [18:07:30] | noaXess_kubuntu: | no backend is on 10.04.2 and frontend is on 10.10 |
| [18:08:39] | wagnerrp: | this happens on recordings you made before the upgrade as well? |
| [18:09:32] | noaXess_kubuntu: | wagnerrp: befire on bith with 0.23 no problem |
| [18:09:40] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i have another frontend.. and there. no problem |
| [18:09:58] | wagnerrp: | no, recordings that you made on 0.23, can you play them without problems on 0.24 |
| [18:10:30] | noaXess_kubuntu: | wagnerrp: hm.. on one frontend no, on the other yes ;) |
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| [18:10:41] | noaXess_kubuntu: | on one frontend slow ideo and no sound |
| [18:11:00] | noaXess_kubuntu: | also on livetv is the same problem |
| [18:11:06] | wagnerrp: | did you upgrade the OS or anything else when you upgraded mythtv? |
| [18:11:31] | noaXess_kubuntu: | just on that frontend where frontend is ok i upgaded to ubuntu 11.04 |
| [18:11:37] | noaXess_kubuntu: | on the other fronted still same os 10.10 |
| [18:11:47] | noaXess_kubuntu: | and also on backend |
| [18:12:01] | noaXess_kubuntu: | maybe a change in 0.24 that needs 11.04? |
| [18:12:16] | wagnerrp: | more like a change in 11.04 that broke mythtv |
| [18:12:31] | wagnerrp: | oh, youre saying the 11.04 frontend is fine |
| [18:12:54] | noaXess_kubuntu: | jep |
| [18:13:03] | noaXess_kubuntu: | on the 10.10 frontend is the problem |
| [18:13:36] | noaXess_kubuntu: | any big change in 0.23 to 0.24?.. maybe something that doesn't exist in 10.10? |
| [18:13:52] | wagnerrp: | shouldnt be, can you paste your playback logs? |
| [18:14:06] | noaXess_kubuntu: | mythtvfrontent log? |
| [18:14:14] | noaXess_kubuntu: | ..end... |
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| [18:14:44] | noaXess_kubuntu: | the frontend also crashes after stopping lifetv or recorded show and go back to main menu |
| [18:15:09] | wagnerrp: | so it doesnt crash, because it goes back to the main menu |
| [18:15:53] | noaXess_kubuntu: | http://paste.ubuntu.com/602418/ |
| [18:16:18] | noaXess_kubuntu: | log when i start frontend, start a recorded show, press esc go back to medialist |
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| [18:20:30] | noaXess_kubuntu: | wagnerrp: any idea? |
| [18:22:26] | wagnerrp: | what video card do you have? |
| [18:22:32] | noaXess_kubuntu: | nidia |
| [18:22:35] | noaXess_kubuntu: | nvidia |
| [18:22:42] | wagnerrp: | specifically |
| [18:22:54] | noaXess_kubuntu: | in 0.23 no problem.. and also alkl others work.. like vlc video/sound is still fine |
| [18:22:57] | noaXess_kubuntu: | wait |
| [18:23:28] | noaXess_kubuntu: | 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation G96 [GeForce 9500 GT] (rev a1) |
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| [18:24:03] | wagnerrp: | you should be using the opengl painter and video renderer, rather than qt and xvideo |
| [18:24:20] | noaXess_kubuntu: | wagnerrp: frontend settings? |
| [18:24:50] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [18:25:09] | Beirdo: | mmm,m latte |
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| [18:25:21] | wagnerrp: | but that wouldnt be causing crashing |
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| [18:26:30] | noaXess_kubuntu: | ok.. mhm.. should i uppgrade to 11.04? |
| [18:27:31] | noaXess_kubuntu: | i do it anyway.. |
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| [18:43:03] | justinh: | toad_: commflagging doesn't really work well in the UK. Problem is, all the methods are tuned & hard-coded to US patterns. Logo detection used to work on some channels – but only where it's removed for the breaks |
| [18:43:43] | justinh: | toad_: somebody made a silence detection script for external use which works better than anything else but we need somebody to build it in |
| [18:44:33] | Beirdo: | it could get added in |
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| [18:44:48] | toad_: | hmmmm, so it's probably best for me to turn off comm flagging for now |
| [18:45:02] | toad_: | do you want a bug report for the memory leak? |
| [18:45:21] | Beirdo: | the problem is that the main devs who work on commflagging are in the US and don't really have access to UK recordings for testing. |
| [18:45:45] | Beirdo: | toad_: you have a valgrind report for the memory leak? |
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| [18:45:57] | justinh: | Beirdo: if I could find a way to ship a hard drive cheaply enough ;-) |
| [18:46:06] | Beirdo: | justinh: I hear ya :) |
| [18:46:08] | toad_: | Beirdo: no :| |
| [18:46:19] | toad_: | Beirdo: i don't have the filename either, sorry |
| [18:46:25] | toad_: | i didn't believe top and just killed it :| |
| [18:46:34] | toad_: | it was using 8.9GB RSS and 17GB VIRT |
| [18:46:37] | Beirdo: | toad_: makes it infinitely easier to find memory leaks with thereport. |
| [18:46:43] | ** toad_ is pretty sure in retrospect that that's a serious memory leak ** | |
| [18:46:47] | toad_: | yeah :| |
| [18:46:48] | Beirdo: | heh, that doesn't sound good though :) |
| [18:47:11] | toad_: | it's likely not immediately debuggable so it's just intelligence – forget it? |
| [18:47:13] | kormoc: | or just broken top reporting. You really should use pmap -d pidhere to see the real usages |
| [18:47:37] | justinh: | ouch, £30 minimum to safely ship a hard disk to the US |
| [18:47:41] | toad_: | yeah but the system behaviour supports it, as do the memory/swap usage figures before and after |
| [18:47:52] | Beirdo: | yeah, that's also true. Top does lie at times. |
| [18:48:03] | toad_: | that's why i didn't get a full command line :| |
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| [18:48:29] | toad_: | all i have to do is tell mythtv not to allow transcoding jobs on the backend, right? |
| [18:48:47] | Beirdo: | commflagging, but yes |
| [18:48:49] | toad_: | errr comm flagging |
| [18:48:52] | toad_: | i was transcoding |
| [18:49:32] | Beirdo: | I am going to have to slap this code again. Getting black previews once again |
| [18:49:35] | Beirdo: | sigh |
| [18:49:58] | toad_: | do i need to restart? |
| [18:50:19] | Beirdo: | if you change the setting, yes, you'd need to restart the backend process |
| [18:50:32] | JEDIDIAH__: | test recordings are more a copyright issue more than anything else. |
| [18:50:55] | Beirdo: | JEDIDIAH__: of course. |
| [18:51:17] | Beirdo: | kormoc: you were missed in Bellingham :) |
| [18:51:41] | toad_: | so you don't want me to formalise the bug report then? |
| [18:52:05] | toad_: | thanks anyway folks... |
| [18:52:24] | toad_: | myth is awesome, although it could be more awesome of course :) |
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| [18:53:09] | ** toad_ also suggests usability testing on non-geek users re the menu titles, although i know it's a tradeoff between readability and comprehensibility :| ** | |
| [18:53:16] | toad_ (toad_!~toad@freenet/developer/toad) has left #mythtv-users ("Konversation terminated!") | |
| [18:53:26] | justinh: | pfft. |
| [18:54:39] | justinh: | Beirdo: anyway, the script on the wiki works pretty much without any changes so that'd be a great place to start. minions can test it out, and given enough rope maybe try & tweak it |
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| [18:56:28] | justinh: | come to think, I don't think I've ever even looked at commflagging code |
| [18:59:30] | splashd: | sorry if this has been beat to death, but is there any downside to the Natty upgrade for mythbuntu? |
| [19:00:08] | justinh: | splashd: as ever if you have no pressing need to upgrade, DON'T |
| [19:00:16] | JEDIDIAH__: | there are a couple of situations where the US commflagging falls down too. |
| [19:00:26] | justinh: | but apparently plenty of people are not happy about Natty |
| [19:00:33] | justinh: | not just mythtv users |
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| [19:00:45] | JEDIDIAH__: | Cano seems to be hell bent on p*ssing everyone off. |
| [19:00:59] | tgm4883: | justinh, that seems to be more related to Unity than Natty |
| [19:01:12] | ** justinh doesn't care :-) ** | |
| [19:01:24] | justinh: | if you don't need to upgrade, DO NOT. Simples |
| [19:01:24] | JEDIDIAH__: | upstart, pulse |
| [19:01:36] | justinh: | if you want a newer version of mythtv, no need to change distro version |
| [19:01:55] | JEDIDIAH__: | gdm kind of got broken, so I don't use that anymore. |
| [19:02:22] | wagnerrp: | Cano? |
| [19:02:26] | JEDIDIAH__: | Canonical. |
| [19:02:30] | wagnerrp: | ah |
| [19:02:43] | ** JEDIDIAH__ is just plain lazy ** | |
| [19:02:45] | ** tgm4883 rolls eyes ** | |
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| [19:03:41] | justinh: | hmm I might need a new keyboard for this laptop soon. Thanks, son |
| [19:03:43] | JEDIDIAH__: | I tend to use the oldest distro I can and only upgrade when something like a new qt version pushes me into it. |
| [19:05:10] | justinh: | WTH? A perl script in the commflagger? |
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| [19:10:06] | wagnerrp: | eh? |
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| [19:10:23] | justinh: | mythcommflag-analyze |
| [19:10:35] | wagnerrp: | oh, no... not really |
| [19:10:45] | splashd: | ok thanks |
| [19:10:45] | wagnerrp: | that is a script intended for processing the commflagger debugging output |
| [19:10:51] | wagnerrp: | not for commflagging itself |
| [19:10:57] | wagnerrp: | its a development utility |
| [19:11:08] | justinh: | ah |
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| [19:13:18] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro | |
| [19:15:45] | justinh: | so I guess the big question is.. can nuppelplayer provide audio to the flagger classes easily? |
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| [19:20:51] | justinh: | ugh. and then there's multichannel audio to consider.. |
| [19:22:09] | justinh: | oh yeah, FWIW the UK will soon have a big fat logo marking where product placement is used in a programme, in & out of breaks, starts & ends |
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| [19:24:42] | wagnerrp: | justinh: thats the big issue, the flagger is not currently set up to provide audio |
| [19:25:10] | wagnerrp: | so while adding the new method likely wouldnt otherwise be that hard |
| [19:25:21] | wagnerrp: | getting audio to it in the first place is going to require a bit of work |
| [19:25:23] | justinh: | yeah that fact just dawned on me |
| [19:26:08] | justinh: | still, I've had a crack at tricky things before :) |
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| [19:28:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | adding the ability to look at audio in the flagger isn't that hard, it wouldn't take that much to copy the audio buffer example out of mythtranscode and have the flagger be able to access the raw audio. it needs a little bit more so the flagger knows what timestamp the audio data is for, but it wouldn't be that hard to add simple silence detection to mythcommflag. |
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| [19:32:00] | wagnerrp: | (if you know what youre doing) |
| [19:32:20] | justinh: | hahaha of course |
| [19:32:25] | wagnerrp: | and you could probably count on your hands the number of people who know enough about the code to easily implement it |
| [19:33:20] | justinh: | the base code seems straightforward |
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| [19:34:58] | justinh: | the real head hurting stuff happens in the methods – i.e. doing the analysis |
| [19:35:15] | justinh: | but even that isn't quite rocket science |
| [19:35:36] | Beirdo: | that reminds me... |
| [19:35:56] | Beirdo: | I need to look at the Logo Search code again to see if I can't get it faster for H.264 somehow |
| [19:36:05] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, broken down it's not that hard. even the scene change detection is just looking at histograms. edge detection is probably the most complex piece. |
| [19:36:23] | Captain_Murdoch: | edge detection used for logo searching that is. |
| [19:36:34] | Captain_Murdoch: | it takes more time to decode than flag. |
| [19:36:35] | Beirdo: | yeah. I can believe it ;) |
| [19:37:00] | wagnerrp: | especially now that its downscaled to one quarter resolution before flagged |
| [19:37:04] | Beirdo: | my MPEG2 commflag runs are extremely fast. |
| [19:37:17] | Beirdo: | H.264 won't let you do the downscale first |
| [19:37:49] | Beirdo: | but we could do timings to see if a post-downscale makes the algorithms faster or not |
| [19:39:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | I think that downscaling also could make things like logo detection less accurate though. it might not affect overall flagging if the other indicators are strong enough though, like letter/pillarboxing, blank frame, scene change. |
| [19:39:36] | Captain_Murdoch: | depends on the content. |
| [19:40:01] | Beirdo: | true. There's always tradeoffs. Just trying to think of ways of making it faster without losing too much on the accuracy |
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| [19:40:47] | Captain_Murdoch: | most of the detectors short-circuit if htey can like blank-frame. others like the histogram for scene change are based on frame size, so smaller frame should be faster because it's less pixels to sample in the grid (it uses a grid instead of all pixels) |
| [19:40:54] | Beirdo: | having my H.264 1080i recordings go through the main commflag loop at right around 30fps is sad. |
| [19:41:25] | Beirdo: | and that's after a loop through for the logo that takes at least as long |
| [19:41:28] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [19:41:39] | Captain_Murdoch: | Beirdo, would be interesting to see how much of that is decode vs flag. like commenting out all the flagging code just to see how fast it can decode. |
| [19:41:50] | Beirdo: | I wish H.264 decoding could go multi-thread already :) |
| [19:42:06] | Beirdo: | that might be worth toying with, yeah |
| [19:42:22] | Beirdo: | it's not like I'm under-CPU'd here, it's an i7–850 |
| [19:42:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | logo scan hits multiple sections of video to see if the same edges show up in various sections of video. |
| [19:42:47] | Beirdo: | the other issue is if our seek tables are borked (again), the seeking can take a lot of time |
| [19:43:10] | Captain_Murdoch: | we could save a little time by going ahead and doing things like blank frame and scene change histograms on those frames hte first time we seem them, but that's not a huge savings. |
| [19:43:26] | Beirdo: | as it would seek to a byte offset that's not quite right... then got through the stream to find the next frame |
| [19:43:37] | Beirdo: | true |
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| [19:43:56] | Beirdo: | I'm wondering if doing wavelet stuff would end up being faser |
| [19:44:07] | Beirdo: | but then we gotta write a pile of wavelet code :) |
| [19:44:21] | elmojo (elmojo!~elmojo@unaffiliated/elmojo) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [19:44:28] | Beirdo: | and if you want some mental exercise, I highly recommend wavelets... |
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| [19:45:28] | wagnerrp: | s/exercise/masochism/ |
| [19:45:29] | justinh: | dirac1 |
| [19:45:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | if only we could just say something like "decode only the top 1/2 or 1/4 of this frame". that'd be pretty accurate for blank frame, scene change, and letter/pillarbox. if we could do bottom 1/2 or 1/4 that would get all those plus most logo detection. |
| [19:46:07] | wagnerrp: | im an engineer, i like math as much as the next guy but wavelets... aaagh... |
| [19:46:44] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: perhaps you could do that with domain slicing? |
| [19:47:04] | wagnerrp: | see if the decoder allows you to selectively decode only one slice of the video |
| [19:49:07] | Captain_Murdoch: | possible. sounds like it would take up too many of my CPU cycles to retrofit that in right now though, even if the decoder did support it. :( too many ideas, too little time. |
| [19:49:43] | wagnerrp: | it would also drop all parallization from the decoder, since one slice means one thread |
| [19:50:13] | kormoc: | meh. if you're only needing one slice, it's no slower |
| [19:50:55] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: agreed. wavelets are a mind-BLEEP! |
| [19:52:43] | Beirdo: | but I bet they'd be faster to process with at some point |
| [19:52:56] | Beirdo: | maybe we should make a GSoC project for that :) |
| [19:53:11] | Beirdo: | get some PhD student who's starving to do it for us |
| [19:54:50] | kormoc: | Why would you want to use wavelets? |
| [19:55:06] | kormoc: | it's not like we'll be processing the data over and over again |
| [19:55:38] | Beirdo: | as the processing is done on a much smaller dataset (once you get the algorithms converted) |
| [19:56:04] | Beirdo: | and we could even denoise video that way too (for the suckers using analog sources) |
| [19:56:07] | kormoc: | I doubt it'd help much |
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| [19:56:19] | Beirdo: | yeah, it's hard to say :) |
| [19:56:30] | Beirdo: | probably be a waste of time, but could be fun |
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| [19:56:32] | kormoc: | wavelet generation is fairly intensive, I doubt it'd save any time over just processing the raw video data |
| [19:56:51] | Beirdo: | also depends if we can use the GPU :) |
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| [19:57:10] | Beirdo: | which, of course, is a huge if |
| [19:58:31] | Beirdo: | I mean, JPEG2000 uses wavelets internally too, it's not totally magic/vaporware |
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| [19:59:13] | wagnerrp: | magic? no... vaporware? debatable |
| [19:59:15] | kormoc: | Sure. Dan does wavelet stuff for his image processing and all that jazz |
| [19:59:29] | kormoc: | it's easy enough to do with the python libs, but it's not trivial |
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| [20:00:19] | Beirdo: | anyways, just tossing out ideas :) I think it would be fun to play with, but who knows if it would have any usefulness to us at all |
| [20:00:28] | wagnerrp: | Dan? |
| [20:00:40] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, friend of mine here, Beirdo has meet him |
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| [20:01:03] | Beirdo: | aye |
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| [20:07:25] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: well that openivo guy explained that he is a libertarian and believes in the right that any user can do whatever they want with any content they record |
| [20:07:43] | wagnerrp: | i guess that includes the right to allow other companies to display ads in place of those that came with the content |
| [20:08:03] | kormoc: | Yeah. It's great that we live in a world where one's personal beliefs are greater then the law |
| [20:10:31] | justinh: | the BBC made a video codec that uses wavelet compression. DiRAC |
| [20:10:52] | justinh: | AFAIK they've even made a hardware codec |
| [20:11:14] | wagnerrp: | justinh: theres also the ffmpeg-sourced Snow |
| [20:11:18] | justinh: | and if anybody thinks h.264 is a cow to work with... |
| [20:11:28] | Beirdo: | yeah. |
| [20:11:29] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [20:11:37] | kormoc: | Sure, wavelets are great. It doesn't make sense to me to take a video, decode it to raw, wavelet process it, and then process it, vs just processing the raw frame |
| [20:12:13] | justinh: | though it might be much more robust than ordinary video compression. how about instead of going yucky blocky the picture just softens |
| [20:12:17] | Beirdo: | unless the wavelet transform leads to a MUCH simpilified processeing algorithm, it likely won't be of much use |
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| [20:12:40] | justinh: | Beirdo: GPUCommFlag :-P |
| [20:12:54] | Beirdo: | I know, it's been in the back of my head for a while |
| [20:13:06] | Beirdo: | need to resurrect and redo gputrans |
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| [20:13:35] | Beirdo: | I think that's the only way it will make sense... to offload to the GPU |
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| [20:50:24] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: hauppauge does custom hardware runs for system integrators? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem . . . 400213402371 |
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| [20:51:12] | devinheitmueller: | It's been known to happen from time to time. |
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| [20:51:57] | devinheitmueller: | (largely dependent on the volume and the complexity of the changes required) |
| [20:52:03] | devinheitmueller: | This is not uncommon for any board manufacturer. |
| [20:52:06] | wagnerrp: | i mean everything seems to line up, looks exactly like the 1800, sans stickers, radio, baseband, and header |
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| [20:52:09] | wagnerrp: | its just.... weird |
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| [20:52:40] | devinheitmueller: | I don't know about this case in particular, but I can only assume they just did a PCB run that included some components depopulated. |
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| [20:53:55] | devinheitmueller: | I'm not too surprised though. Depopulating the analog stuff is pretty straightforward, and the only "new part" is probably just a different PCI faceplate. |
| [20:54:16] | wagnerrp: | yeah, and the faceplate is fairly easy to do |
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| [20:54:28] | devinheitmueller: | It's probably just borrowed from a different existing design. |
| [20:54:30] | wagnerrp: | anyway... user on the ML asking about it for mythtv |
| [20:54:43] | wagnerrp: | i assume the 1800 is still no go for analog on mythtv? |
| [20:55:14] | devinheitmueller: | hard to say – it might work as long as you don't try to use the analog inputs. Or they might have done a different PCI ID for the board, in which case a new board profile would have to be added to the cx23885 driver. |
| [20:55:39] | devinheitmueller: | I'm guessing it's probably the latter. |
| [20:55:47] | devinheitmueller: | (based on what I know of typical BOM processes) |
| [20:55:57] | wagnerrp: | ok, ill forward that on |
| [20:55:57] | wagnerrp: | thanks |
| [20:56:10] | devinheitmueller: | So it could probably be made to work, if you know anything about driver programming, but it won't work out of the box. |
| [20:56:56] | devinheitmueller: | If the guy is trying to save ten bucks on a single board, he should probably just avoid the hassle. |
| [20:57:48] | wagnerrp: | i think hes hoping to save $60 versus a new HVR-1600/1850 |
| [20:59:38] | devinheitmueller: | Well, it's his risk to take then. :-) |
| [21:07:03] | wagnerrp: | well i went fishing, told him if hes buying multiple, it may be worth him to fix those issues |
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| [21:07:14] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, I saw your reply. Looks good. |
| [21:07:20] | wagnerrp: | if he goes for it, we get better drivers... if not, theres another HVR-2250 sale |
| [21:07:46] | devinheitmueller: | If he has a commercial interest and is willing to throw some money at the problem. KernelLabs can always whip up a board profile for him in a few hours. |
| [21:09:01] | sphery: | again with the starting to type a reply just before someone else sends their reply (and 20min after the question) |
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| [21:09:49] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: pthread_mutex_trylock() FAIL! |
| [21:09:52] | devinheitmueller: | :-) |
| [21:09:56] | sphery: | heh |
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| [21:13:15] | sphery: | hmmm, based on elmojo's message on -users (that mentions thermal issues causing playback pauses--likely through thermal-protection underclocking, I'd assume), I'm glad the new GT220 I got has a big old fan on it |
| [21:15:16] | wagnerrp: | devinheitmueller: well from the email, the analog support seemed to be a big issue |
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| [21:15:39] | wagnerrp: | sphery: thermal underclocking on a.... video card? |
| [21:16:10] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: if he cares about analog, why would he try to buy a board that has all the analog removed? |
| [21:16:30] | wagnerrp: | it still has the tuner, just no baseband inputs |
| [21:16:43] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, ok. |
| [21:16:47] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, I see what you're driving at. |
| [21:16:49] | wagnerrp: | although IMHO, the baseband inputs are much more important these days |
| [21:16:53] | sphery: | wagnerrp: or maybe not... |
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| [21:17:09] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, there is a good chance that the analog support for the cx23885 is fixed in Steven's HG tree on kernellabs.com, but none of that has gone upstream yet. |
| [21:17:33] | devinheitmueller: | I generally agree though, that the baseband is more important for analog, given the common use case is coming out of a cable box. |
| [21:17:50] | wagnerrp: | at least for those people who arent dealing with cheap DTAs |
| [21:18:11] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, that's true. My bad. |
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| [21:50:55] | _justdave: | how does one toggle subtitles in the Internal player in MythVideo? |
| [21:51:58] | _justdave: | I've found several wiki pages saying it supports it, but none saying how to activate them |
| [21:52:07] | wagnerrp: | 't' i believe |
| [21:52:52] | _justdave: | that was my guess from the TV stuff (that's "toggle captions") but it doesn't seem to do anything in video... |
| [21:53:33] | _justdave: | maybe it doesn't support ASS format |
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| [21:57:31] | _justdave: | have it set up to use mplayer normally, and had one that mplayer (on linux) wouldn't play (played fine on Mac in mplayer). Tried Internal, and it does the video fine, but no subtitles |
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| [23:46:45] | zombor: | hello, i have a dual tuner, but when i watch tv while it's recording, it shows whats being recorded, not the channel i chose? how can i make it work correctly? |
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| [23:50:59] | kormoc: | zombor, a real dual tuner or one that has two inputs but only one output? |
| [23:51:27] | zombor: | a real tuner, afaik |
| [23:51:30] | zombor: | it has one input |
| [23:51:31] | zombor: | http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-2250 |
| [23:51:59] | kormoc: | that actually claims 4, nice |
| [23:52:21] | zombor: | well, 2 digital |
| [23:54:29] | zombor: | im able to record two things at once, but not watch while it's recording |
| [23:55:23] | sphery: | you can watch while it's recording, but only on channels on the same multiplex as what's being recorded |
| [23:55:35] | sphery: | or you have to manually switch inputs (C key or use the Menu) |
| [23:55:53] | sphery: | or you have to configure MythTV to say that Live TV is more important to you than recordings. |
| [23:56:24] | zombor: | ah ok, i thought it would use the second input automatically |
| [23:56:42] | sphery: | no, because doing so will affect recording placement--which could result in missed recordings |
| [23:57:29] | zombor: | seems like that wouldn't be so bad, when i choose a channel to watch, and it ends up being something else, thats kinda weird behavior |
| [23:58:00] | sphery: | zombor: the final solution (the one that was untested when I sent the message) at http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/369358#369358 shows how to reconfigure such that Live TV gets priority |
| [23:58:14] | paras (paras!~darren@dslb-088-066-150-184.pools.arcor-ip.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| [23:58:21] | zombor: | yeah, i'd be fine with that, as long as the current recording doesn't stop |
| [23:58:22] | sphery: | but you need to read the whole post to get the background info you'll need to understand it |
| [23:58:34] | sphery: | no, will just choose a different input if one's available |
| [23:58:35] | mycosys: | cant you set myth to browse all tuners in livetv? |
| [23:58:38] | mycosys: | iirc |
| [23:58:53] | sphery: | yes, but channel change across inputs generally doesn't work |
| [23:59:07] | paras (paras!~darren@dslb-088-066-150-184.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:59:34] | zombor: | right, i wouldn't expect that |
| [23:59:49] | sphery: | and it wouldn't have any effect on the initial channel/input used when you select the option to show EPG before going into live tv |
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