Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, April 18th, 2011, 00:20 UTC

[00:20:49]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, What I've read so far seems ok, aside from seeming like it was written by a person for whom english is a second language

[00:21:03]

iamlindoro:

"For other errors, realize that keeping the latest media tree code compiling on older kernels is a loosing battle. If you report build failures to linux-media@vger.kernel.org you'll usually either see them fixed and/or receive a suggested work-arounds."

[00:31:33]

straterra:

Hmm..Do I HAVE to have a capture card to run myth? I don't have one atm, but would like to use Myth for ripping retail DVDs, etc

[00:31:51]

wagnerrp:

no you dont

[00:32:00]

wagnerrp:

use something actually designed for that

[00:32:16]

straterra:

Well..I'm going to use a capture card in the near future :P

[00:32:29]

straterra:

I can wait, I s'pose

[00:32:35]

wagnerrp:

commercial software like anydvd or dvdfab... open source programs like megui, avidemux, handbreak

[00:33:28]

straterra:

Yeah, I currently use ffmpeg...which is fine. I was just going to give the gf a nice gui of our movies, etc...but I'll wait until I nab some network tuners

[00:33:41]

sphery:

I keep wondering if that's a nickname you give to handbrake to imply something about your experiences with it...

[00:34:18]

wagnerrp:

no, freudian slip

[00:34:27]

wagnerrp:

ive never actually used handbreak/brake

[00:35:18]

sphery:

yeah, it's also easy to type break by habit--especially for a programmer--so just wondered if there was more toit

[00:36:08]

wagnerrp:

straterra: at current, mythtv has no dvd ripping capacity

[00:36:34]

wagnerrp:

it formerly did, but that was removed prior to 0.24 since it did not function, and needed significant work and revampment

[00:36:55]

straterra:

wagnerrp: Oh...really? The last time I worked with myth was a coworkers myth setup a couple years ago :x

[00:36:57]

wagnerrp:

if it does come back, it will only be capable of ripping to ISO, or to VOB

[00:36:57]

sphery:

not to mention that programs designed for ripping dvds were better than what we had

[00:37:04]

straterra:

I guess I'll keep using ffmpeg + my scripts

[00:37:46]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, theres really little point to go any further than ISO or VOB

[00:37:56]

sphery:

after all, programs like handbrake have whole message boards dedicated to what arcane switches to use to successfully rip those things they sell with movies on them that don't meet the DVD spec (for the purpose of preventing ripping)

[00:37:57]

straterra:

Eh, just storage space

[00:38:01]

wagnerrp:

transcoding is largely a waste of time and energy

[00:38:26]

straterra:

I normally encode my DVDs to around 2GB

[00:38:40]

wagnerrp:

youre talking a few GB, maybe $0.25 worth at today's rates

[00:38:42]

straterra:

Not that storage is expensive these days...

[00:38:58]

sphery:

and we didn't have those switches (nor the desire to maintain them/attempt to make it possible to rip every commercial "dvd")

[00:39:01]

straterra:

Storage isn't expensive, but the power + room for the disk + controllers can be heh

[00:39:18]

wagnerrp:

disks can be spun down, controllers use very little

[00:39:32]

sphery:

at 6W/HDD, that's maybe $6/yr, which isn't what I'd call expensive

[00:39:42]

sphery:

more expensive is replacing them after 5 yrs

[00:39:52]

sphery:

(or whenever they fail)

[00:39:54]

wagnerrp:

youre going to spend far more CPU power transcoding that content, than you will save in consumption from those drives

[00:40:06]

straterra:

That's true...the power thing also comes in to consideration when you have to spin them all up at once

[00:40:19]

sphery:

especially if you get properly large 2TB or 3TB HDDs

[00:41:38]

straterra:

So..if iso/vob is the way Myth is going, can it currently play back DVD ISOs?

[00:42:09]

wagnerrp:

anyway, the point is there are plenty of other utilities purpose built for transcoding, and mythtv simply cant compete in capability or quality

[00:42:18]

sphery:

true

[00:42:19]

straterra:

Yeah, that makes sense

[00:42:30]

sphery:

it can play isos

[00:42:38]

straterra:

Good deal

[00:42:40]

wagnerrp:

if the ripping capability came back, mythtv would perform a lossless rip, and then hand it off to some user script to go from there

[00:42:48]

sphery:

if you store them on a backend, it may not be able to play encrypted isos, though

[00:42:55]

wagnerrp:

it can play ISOs and VIDEO_TS folders over storage groups

[00:42:58]

straterra:

Yeah, i'd decrypt em

[00:43:06]

wagnerrp:

and yes, no encrypted content over storage groups

[00:43:07]

sphery:

so you'd need one of the aforementioned tools to decrypt

[00:43:13]

wagnerrp:

so you would need something more capable than just 'dd'

[00:43:20]

sphery:

ok, then s/may not/will not/

[00:43:23]

straterra:

dd would be nice, I admit :P

[00:43:32]

wagnerrp:

storage groups are mythtv's internal data storage and file serving interface

[00:43:33]

sphery:

wasn't sure what the current status was

[00:43:37]

wagnerrp:

you define your storage on the backend

[00:43:46]

wagnerrp:

and it will stream the content to any frontend you have attached over the network

[00:43:52]

straterra:

Right

[00:44:25]

straterra:

I plan on building frontends with optical drives in them...I assume if I attach the drives to the backend via iscsi, I can pop a DVD in and watch it pretty easily?

[00:44:46]

wagnerrp:

playback from local drives would be done locally

[00:44:50]

wagnerrp:

the backend would not be involved

[00:44:58]

straterra:

Even easier

[00:45:35]

wagnerrp:

were the dvd ripping capability to come back, the frontend would still rip the image, and store it to the backend over the internal file transfer mechanism

[00:46:04]

straterra:

AM/FM tuners are still supported, right?

[00:46:14]

wagnerrp:

they have never been supported

[00:46:45]

straterra:

Really? I could have sworn I read a guide about using a FM tuner in one of the popular capture cards

[00:47:14]

wagnerrp:

there have been unofficial plugins, and menu modifications that would spawn external plugins

[00:47:21]

straterra:

Ah, gotcha

[00:47:22]

wagnerrp:

but there has never been any official support for radio tuners

[00:48:17]

straterra:

Great, thanks for the answers

[00:57:17]

[R]:

its disgusting how graphic these MTV shows can get

[00:58:23]

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[00:59:09]

sphery:

Bruce Springsteen, Madonna, way before Nirvana, there was U2 and Blondie and music still on MTV

[00:59:33]

[R]:

sphery: such a great song

[00:59:59]

sphery:

heh, yeah, not bad... but the MTV point is definitely valid

[01:00:24]

[R]:

i think they stopped showing music on MTV2

[01:00:25]

sphery:

I'm still trying to figure out which "other guy" they mean with "And who's the other guy that's singing in Van Halen"

[01:00:27]

[R]:

that was the whole point of MTV2

[01:00:49]

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[01:02:29]

sphery:

so MTV was Music TV, then they started showing other junk, so they made MTV2 to have music, and now they don't even show music on MTV2?

[01:02:43]

sphery:

or did you mean MTV2 was for the non-music shows

[01:03:41]

[R]:

mtv2 was for music

[01:03:46]

[R]:

but i dont think they show music on it anymore

[01:03:49]

sphery:

heh, funny

[01:04:09]

sphery:

at least with Coke 2, they figured out they made a mistake

[01:04:57]

sphery:

then again, when SyFy is all about wrestling and shows where wrestlers teach you to cook, I suppose there's no reason MTV has to have music

[01:05:43]

sphery:

ah, guess they went with a different approach

[01:05:43]

[R]:

i'm still pissed that they cancelleed all the stragates

[01:05:47]

[R]:

people loves them obviously

[01:06:35]

sphery:

yeah, I have SG-U S1 on my coffee table, but I'm afraid to watch it (because then I'll only have SG-U S2 left, and will forever be out of new SG shows)

[01:07:02]

[R]:

i'm rewatching SGU on netflix

[01:08:37]

sphery:

at least my Supernatural is still on--and chances of a season 7 are looking pretty good

[01:09:05]

sphery:

still want more space stuff, though

[01:11:00]

sphery:

Of course, with today's TV, I can imagine Space X starting to fulfill all the US government/NASA/DoD contracts, then branching out and creating a reality TV show about a bunch of people locked in a space station with cameras on them.

[01:11:13]

[R]:

i'm excited for star trek coming to netflix

[01:11:58]

sphery:

Oh, wait, Fox already did that show

[01:12:28]

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[01:12:38]

sphery:

can't remember the name... but it was bad

[01:15:14]

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[01:15:34]

sphery:

Virtuality

[01:15:39]

sphery:

yeah, bad

[01:22:16]

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[01:24:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: and those SyFy movies... ugh

[01:25:01]

wagnerrp:

watched a bit of one a few days ago out of morbid curiosity

[01:25:43]

wagnerrp:

there was an F7 tornado bearing down on washington dc

[01:26:02]

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[01:26:21]

wagnerrp:

so they sent an sr71 in to drag a measurement package through it

[01:26:33]

wagnerrp:

now this sr71 is shown going 2000mph

[01:26:42]

wagnerrp:

but graphically, its going around 250mph

[01:27:07]

wagnerrp:

and pulling turns that would reduce the pilot to a pull of mush on the floor of the cockpit were they going the speed they claimed they were

[01:27:12]

wagnerrp:

pool

[01:28:19]

wagnerrp:

later when that measurement package failed, the sr71 previously flying at 2000mph flew headlong into the tornado at a mere 400mph

[01:28:31]

wagnerrp:

and somehow the winds were so strong, it broke the plane apart

[01:29:18]

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[01:30:31]

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[01:31:54]

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[01:32:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, gotta love it when they go all out

[01:33:23]

iamlindoro:

Nothing could be worse than their "Thor" with the kid from Home Improvement as Thor

[01:33:38]

sphery:

They actually had some really good science advisors on BSG. Guess they're not willing to spring for them for a movie.

[01:33:49]

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[01:34:54]

sphery:

heh, so guess that's not the Thor everyone I know has been talking about, lately

[01:39:12]

iamlindoro:

http://www.syfy.com/movies/originals/index.php?pageid=10

[01:40:29]

iamlindoro:

They photoshopped some thinness onto him for the promotional materials, too bad they couldn't after-effects the pudge off him in the movie

[01:40:47]

wagnerrp:

michael dorn in AI Assault

[01:40:54]

wagnerrp:

they hooked worf into their stuff?

[01:41:35]

wagnerrp:

and Alien Apocalypse... why bruce campbell...

[01:41:45]

sphery:

wow, the ads on that page are horrible

[01:42:01]

sphery:

plays the whole ad before the page loads

[01:42:43]

sphery:

and, of course, the page--and not just the video--is all Flash

[01:42:50]

iamlindoro:

So, to those with HBO, yay, Game of Thrones tonight!

[01:43:00]

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[01:43:23]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah, this Thor looks more interesting: http://www.themoviedb.org/movie/10195

[01:43:32]

wagnerrp:

haha... Aztec Rex sounds like a winner

[01:43:45]

iamlindoro:

sphery, With George Kirk as Thor!

[01:43:54]

wagnerrp:

aztecs summon a t-rex to fight the conquistadors

[01:44:10]

wagnerrp:

aztecs subsequently seek help from conquistadors to save them from the t-rez

[01:44:13]

wagnerrp:

rex

[01:44:13]

iamlindoro:

sphery, His scenes in the new Star Trek movie are by far my favorite

[01:44:33]

sphery:

heh, I have to say I don't remember those scenes that much

[01:44:53]

iamlindoro:

sphery, The opening stuff, where James Kirk is born? I liked that bit the best

[01:45:06]

sphery:

enjoyed the Star Trek movie, but wasn't a favorite, so forgot lots

[01:46:03]

iamlindoro:

I would say (sacrilege, I know) that the new one is my favorite of the series... but I was never a huge Star Trek person

[01:46:05]

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[01:46:19]

iamlindoro:

I *am* a big JJ Abrams fan, so that might help

[01:46:42]

sphery:

yeah, new one is my fav, too

[01:46:55]

sphery:

but still had a lot of Star Trek baggage

[01:47:32]

sphery:

I don't like my escape from reality to have a reality that's better explored than our reality

[01:48:08]

iamlindoro:

heh

[01:48:18]

wagnerrp:

did you see the speed lines when they went to warp

[01:48:22]

wagnerrp:

you cant argue with speed lines

[01:48:39]

sphery:

heh

[01:49:27]

iamlindoro:

I can't remember which book it was that had a whole half chapter explaining why, at greater than light speed, the space ahead of you would be perfectly blank

[01:49:48]

iamlindoro:

(as viewed from the craft)

[01:50:04]

iamlindoro:

And I can't remember the explanation either :)

[01:50:07]

sphery:

heh, wow, Wil Wheaton was in ST 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJNKW_1YqW0&NR=1

[01:50:46]

iamlindoro:

haha

[01:50:53]

iamlindoro:

SHUT IT, CRUSHER

[01:51:46]

** wagnerrp wonders is John Cho is gay **

[01:51:55]

sphery:

wonder if that clip is going to get its poster sent to copyright school: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InzDjH1-9Ns&am . . . yer_embedded

[01:52:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Is that a George Takei reference or something?

[01:52:52]

sphery:

(that copyright school video is well worth watching--and a wonderful example of "talking the walk"

[01:53:10]

wagnerrp:

man, i really would have never guessed it

[01:54:45]

wagnerrp:

looks like the george kirk actor is in red dawn? didnt know they were remaking that

[01:55:43]

sphery:

wow, guess it's the other red this time?

[01:56:08]

wagnerrp:

red korea?

[01:56:28]

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[01:57:51]

sphery:

ah, so it seems they flip flopped between Chinese and North Korean

[01:58:02]

iamlindoro:

NK is the easy path

[01:58:13]

iamlindoro:

We're supposed to be friends with China

[01:58:18]

sphery:

yeah, seems that's where they're at now

[01:58:34]

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[01:58:41]

iamlindoro:

I am always somewhat amused by movies like Rocky IV in historical perspective

[01:59:00]

iamlindoro:

and Red Heat, etc.

[01:59:09]

sphery:

yeah, lot of those have lost something in the intervening years

[01:59:16]

wagnerrp:

meh, i think if china takes us over, it wont be militarily

[01:59:48]

sphery:

heh, yeah, and that if seems to be becoming more and more like a when

[01:59:56]

sphery:

how much do we owe, now?

[02:00:20]

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[02:00:40]

sphery:

$1.1T a/o Jan 2011 per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

[02:01:00]

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[02:01:20]

wagnerrp:

only 1.1? figured it would be higher

[02:01:29]

sphery:

yeah, me too

[02:02:35]

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[02:02:49]

sphery:

foreigners own $4.45T of US debt which is about 47% of the debt held by the US public ($9.49T) or 32% of total ($14.1T)

[02:03:07]

sphery:

so we still have a majority of shares :)

[02:03:23]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[02:04:49]

wagnerrp:

hehehe

[02:05:00]

wagnerrp:

'once the army hit southern california, they would defect'

[02:11:11]

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[02:13:18]

wagnerrp:

jonas quinn you foolish man... Mansquito?

[02:15:04]

sphery:

heh, that sounds awful

[02:15:20]

wagnerrp:

its like The Fly, but worse

[02:18:04]

wagnerrp:

warbirds... before the allies could drop the first atomic bomb, they had to get past the japanese fleet and its island of deadly pterodactyls

[02:18:54]

wagnerrp:

wait, The Mutant Chronicles was a 'scifi original'?

[02:19:32]

wagnerrp:

that one had big name actors, and made it to the theater

[02:21:06]

wagnerrp:

domestic gross was $6820, so i guess it only made it to one theater

[02:28:33]

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[02:30:32]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, you and your facts... He has a ext4 bug! It can't be fixed by anything other then a 'clever' bunch of hacked together scripts!

[02:31:38]

sphery:

ooh, is this another case where bash is the right tool for the job?

[02:32:23]

kormoc:

sphery, yeah, the SD is timing out on download thread

[02:32:34]

sphery:

ah, fun, that one

[02:32:53]

sphery:

so what's he using for his MBE? a Pentium MMX/100MHz?

[02:33:10]

kormoc:

evidently 150 KB/Sec is 100% IO Util

[02:33:19]

mycoserve:

wow – caught up

[02:33:24]

kormoc:

that's sorta 8086 range

[02:34:00]

sphery:

iamlindoro: thanks for that (great) reply

[02:34:22]

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sphery:

heh, so he's using an IBM PC XT... nice

[02:35:02]

** kormoc ponders if he should work on getting recpriority into recorded/oldrecorded sooner then later **

[02:35:11]

sphery:

we had one, and I thought it was cool that it could do MultiMate word processor. I'm super impressed that he got mythhbackend working--even if he can't get mfdb working--on it

[02:36:14]

sphery:

what do you mean? we already have recpriority in recorded

[02:36:23]

kormoc:

sphery, ahh, not in oldrecorded at least

[02:36:37]

sphery:

so what would it do for us in oldrecorded?

[02:36:44]

kormoc:

sphery, recommendation engine

[02:36:57]

kormoc:

it's the only indicator of like/dislike we currently have

[02:37:12]

sphery:

ahhh, cool

[02:37:21]

sphery:

sounds good

[02:38:04]

sphery:

you could add some code to allow users to modify recpriority on existing (or, when you add it to oldrecordings, previous) recordings, if you like

[02:38:20]

sphery:

then they could downgrade stuff after they watch it and find out how disappointing it is :)

[02:38:42]

kormoc:

Hehe, true enough :)

[02:38:53]

sphery:

(which could bump it up in autoexpire priority and down for your recommendation stuff)

[02:38:54]

kormoc:

could be a fun ui learning task too

[02:39:01]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[02:39:32]

sphery:

I decided to take an easy task for my mythui learning exercise--add a "Please Wait" popup for DB backups and upgrades.

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[02:40:30]

sphery:

Turns out figuring out MythUI was easy, but for those specific things, I need to exec (and then quit) my own event loop, and use an event-based design, which means completely rewriting the schema upgrade wizard

[02:40:46]

kormoc:

whoops!

[02:41:24]

sphery:

(event loop only because it's before the main UI is up and running its event loop... schema wizard refactor because it's currently single-threaded and designed to work completely in the main thread)

[02:41:38]

sphery:

so was a bad choice of "easy task"

[02:41:48]

sphery:

but good for the learning...

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[05:18:02]

Chicago:

Hello, I just recently started encoding audio with Ogg+Flac with an embedded cue sheet and saw mythvideo supports playback.

[05:18:30]

Chicago:

However, either I've misunderstood mythmusic's support for internal cuesheets, or mythmusic really just supports the vorbis comments.

[05:19:12]

Chicago:

Can someone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong? I've got a music share with just one Ogg+Flac album in it, with the embedded cue sheet and I'm trying to switch tracks, but mythmusic is seeing just one track.

[05:19:19]

wagnerrp:

im not sure i understand the purpose of a cue sheet

[05:20:22]

Chicago:

with cdrdao, when you rip a CD-DA disc, you get a .bin file and a .toc file. With flac, you feed it the .toc file after converting it with toc2cue. It then loads the seekpoints of the CD-DA disk into the resulting flac.

[05:20:40]

Chicago:

Basically, the cue sheet says, track one is this long; track 2 is this long, track three is this long.

[05:20:43]

wagnerrp:

i understand what they do

[05:20:47]

wagnerrp:

i just dont understand why

[05:20:59]

wagnerrp:

why wouldnt you want separate files

[05:21:35]

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[05:21:37]

Chicago:

I want just one file, for the album, the cue, the album art, etc... which flac supports.

[05:22:42]

wagnerrp:

well its a fairly uncommon type of file

[05:22:51]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt be at all surprised mythmusic did not support it

[05:23:11]

Chicago:

I wouldn't be surprised if I've not implemented it correctly.

[05:23:21]

TM1111a:

Hello everyone. I am trying to sort out a problem with the status page on mythweb. The main section is blank. When I look at the page source, the content_wrapper section says  So, I looked at the handler.php file and it has the variable for the BackendServerPort number in the php file. My question is how does the BackendStatusPort get set ?

[05:23:38]

Chicago:

There are a couple of ways to do it, one way is the embedded cuesheet. The other way is as a vorbis comment, (tag). I've only tried the former.

[05:23:52]

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[05:24:17]

wagnerrp:

TM1111a: using master?

[05:24:35]

TM1111a:

yes

[05:25:01]

wagnerrp:

consequences of running a development version

[05:25:15]

wagnerrp:

the backend web server is in considerable flux currently

[05:25:27]

wagnerrp:

its entirely possible things could be broken from one commit to the next

[05:25:40]

TM1111a:

sorry, not dev version

[05:26:03]

wagnerrp:

you said you were running master

[05:26:03]

TM1111a:

0.24–2.fc12 (r27317)

[05:26:42]

Chicago:

wagnerrp, thanks for listening. I do some more work on it and see what I learn. Then I will come talk about it some more. g'night

[05:26:47]

wagnerrp:

in that case, try to open http://<backendip>:6544/

[05:27:12]

TM1111a:

http://<backendip>:6544/ works properly

[05:27:14]

wagnerrp:

Chicago: chances are you would have to write a patch to support that behavior in mythmusic

[05:27:30]

Chicago:

sounds worthwhile.

[05:28:04]

Chicago:

It would mean reducing a music collection from #tracks +album art to simply 1 file.

[05:28:40]

TM1111a:

It "seems" like the variable for the port number never gets assigned the 6544

[05:29:06]

wagnerrp:

TM1111a: i recall something about that being fixed several months ago

[05:29:26]

wagnerrp:

no, i think that was the music streaming that had the port issue...

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[05:42:15]

TM1111a:

I hardcoded the 6544 in mythweb/modules/status/handler.php so now it works. Still wondering how it could just stop working though.

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[07:26:13]

justinh:

wagnerrp: regarding .cue files – it's not too hard to guess where that kind of file predominates – people who 'end up' with an album rip who don't have the original disc ;-)

[07:28:00]

justinh:

why anybody who rips their own CDs would even want the disc as one track with embedded timing/placement information is confusing – but then some people want strange things

[07:28:52]

justinh:

I remember one of the first all-in-one ripping programs I used converted a whole album to one track in 'mp3 album' format. It was most annoying

[07:29:10]

wagnerrp:

i can maybe understand that its 'clean'

[07:29:17]

wagnerrp:

but then so is all that crap in a single folder

[07:29:26]

wagnerrp:

not to mention its more universally usable

[07:30:25]

justinh:

I think flac/ogg supports such daftness, where everything is just embedded

[07:30:53]

wagnerrp:

id3v2 supports embedded coverart

[07:31:01]

wagnerrp:

fairly commonly supported

[07:31:15]

justinh:

pretty sure ogg/flac supports track embedding too

[07:32:42]

justinh:

ugh – sure does – but it doesn't support labelling individual tracks

[07:32:58]

justinh:

at least FLAC doesn't :)

[07:35:22]

justinh:

still.. who in their right mind.. so what if you end up with a 'clean' directory if you can't have all the lovely metadata – and player support for the format is still pretty scant

[07:35:35]

** justinh files it under MEH **

[07:36:14]

justinh:

speaking of music etc.. wonder if ffmpeg fixed flac seeking

[07:36:29]

wagnerrp:

which one?

[07:38:33]

justinh:

last time I tried seeking in a long flac in mythmusic it didn't work, so it was suggested I try ffplay to see if that worked. It didn't, so I've been patiently awaiting an upstream fix

[07:38:48]

wagnerrp:

i mean... which ffmpeg

[07:38:50]

wagnerrp:

:)

[07:39:11]

justinh:

it was a problem in both mythtv's and ordinary ffmpeg

[07:39:42]

wagnerrp:

i mean, the one ffmpeg, or the other ffmpeg

[07:39:50]

justinh:

the 'other' ffmpeg?

[07:40:52]

justinh:

I thought there was only one.. and the one mythtv maintains, where people have to fight to have patches accepted upstream to the main ffmpeg

[07:41:11]

wagnerrp:

theres the main ffmpeg, and the other main ffmpeg

[07:42:06]

justinh:

that's beginning to sound like you're saying it forked

[07:42:15]

wagnerrp:

violently

[07:42:25]

justinh:

oh sh...

[07:46:29]

justinh:

so er.. this was basically about whether or not to use git?

[07:47:10]

wagnerrp:

among other things

[07:48:01]

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[07:53:04]

justinh:

sigh. there should be some kind of body devoted to keeping egos out of open source

[07:53:56]

mycoDA:

indeed :S

[07:57:10]

justinh:

wow. this has been smouldering for a long time

[07:57:33]

wagnerrp:

first i heard was early january

[07:58:35]

justinh:

well, here's hoping that all'

[07:58:38]

justinh:

arghh

[07:58:59]

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[07:59:22]

justinh:

here's hoping all's well that ends well. it's always sad when things come to a fork

[08:00:05]

mycoDA:

forking sad?

[08:00:13]

justinh:

groan

[08:00:42]

wagnerrp:

the problem becomes where does mythtv go from here

[08:00:55]

wagnerrp:

do we follow one or the other, or try some more difficult mish mash of the two

[08:01:24]

mycoDA:

or maintain mythffpmeg separately

[08:02:43]

justinh:

that's a lot of work

[08:03:02]

justinh:

great, so long as no new formats come along, and nothing changes in the meantime

[08:03:03]

wagnerrp:

were not going to maintain our own decoding libraries

[08:03:19]

justinh:

port to gstreamer?

[08:03:25]

** justinh hides ;) **

[08:03:51]

mycoDA:

roflmao

[08:03:55]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i dont think people around these parts much like gstreamer

[08:04:20]

justinh:

I've been trying to think *why* I don't like gstreamer

[08:04:36]

mycoDA:

cos it feels like windows?

[08:04:44]

justinh:

and you know what – apart from the fact I couldn't play popular formats with it out of the box without paying... I can't think of a good one

[08:05:44]

justinh:

there's a lot to be said for making it possible to string components together in a graph-like format

[08:05:44]

wagnerrp:

every time ive used it, its just seemed so cludgy

[08:06:33]

justinh:

maybe it has to be, the way linux audio & video is architected.. but saying that – I fail to see how it could be worse than directx or whatever

[08:07:45]

wagnerrp:

have you ever tried screwing with the graph trees when it didnt work automatically?

[08:07:54]

justinh:

yup

[08:08:09]

wagnerrp:

ill claim ive tried

[08:08:18]

wagnerrp:

i will not claim to have ever succeeded

[08:08:21]

justinh:

heh

[08:08:33]

justinh:

I never succeeded with graphedit on windows either

[08:08:58]

justinh:

at the end of the day I just want stuff to work, be darned

[08:10:32]

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[08:12:25]

justinh:

probably has implications for this place too, btw

[08:12:43]

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[08:28:21]

justinh:

and furthermore.. how the heck did I miss *that* bit of news? lol

[08:29:03]

wagnerrp:

its been rather quiet unless youve been reading their mailing list, or our developer list

[08:29:13]

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[08:29:18]

justinh:

never been party to the developer list

[08:31:55]

justinh:

hmmm... this is really what Jono Bacon was talking about in that blog post I said I found annoying the other day – at least in terms of keeping your contributing community happy

[08:32:42]

wagnerrp:

well the intention behind the split was to maintain a small group of active 'patch monkeys'

[08:32:56]

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[08:32:58]

wagnerrp:

people who had commit access, and would run through any incoming patch

[08:33:19]

wagnerrp:

review it, and commit, or otherwise reject with reason, in short order

[08:33:32]

wagnerrp:

so the contributing community didnt sit for years with patches

[08:34:34]

justinh:

and to think mythtv had a bad rep... reading this stuff about ffmpeg.. yikes

[08:35:08]

justinh:

and it seems, some people have very strong negative opinions about Linus & his stance on patches too

[08:35:36]

justinh:

guess it's not easy being a benevolent dictator

[08:41:41]

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[08:53:16]

justinh:

grr. those high power PoE injectors I fought tooth & nail to get have all gone!

[08:53:54]

justinh:

two are apparently now living on the racing events truck. great. they came out of my dept's budget

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[09:51:20]

morgan:

anyone got handy hints to work with the signal strength on my hauupauge tuner?

[09:53:34]

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[09:53:48]

justinh:

work with the signal strength?

[09:54:15]

justinh:

I take it you mean improve it.. not somehow manage to produce a silk purse from the sow's ear of lousy reception

[09:57:54]

** justinh wonders what it is about people who come here asking questions, get a response relatively quickly – and then proceed to say nothing for minutes on end **

[09:58:21]

justinh:

always results in being here feeling rather like trying to get blood out of a frickin stone

[10:04:58]

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[10:13:54]

mycoDA:

!rules

[10:14:25]

mycoDA:

morgan – prolly a good idea to specify WHICH hauppauge

[10:15:08]

justinh:

maybe this conversation is being conducted via a carrier pigeon IRC gateway

[10:15:33]

mycoDA:

cpip?? cool!!!!

[10:16:19]

mycoDA:

rfc1149

[10:16:50]

justinh:

lol

[10:17:16]

mycoDA:

you know it i presume?

[10:17:26]

justinh:

no, but I can look stuff up pretty quick

[10:17:42]

mycoDA:

has been implemented on at least one occasion

[10:24:31]

justinh:

no doubt. people are always doing silyy stuff :)

[10:38:51]

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[11:04:07]

morgan:

mycoda – sorry mate.. using a dvr-2200 on ubuntu 10.10

[11:05:06]

mycoDA:

another aussie mayhap?

[11:05:47]

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[11:06:42]

mycoDA:

morgan – it doesnt appear to have a switchable LNA like some of the others

[11:08:09]

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[11:09:14]

morgan:

for the uneducated?

[11:10:23]

mycoDA:

some cards hav an amp ni em that can be switched on and off

[11:10:34]

mycoDA:

you an aussie morgan?

[11:10:37]

morgan:

yup

[11:10:39]

morgan:

gday

[11:10:58]

mycoDA:

time + dvb-t makes it v likely

[11:11:00]

mycoDA:

lol

[11:11:28]

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[11:11:43]

morgan:

is it too strong or weak a signal you think?

[11:11:45]

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[11:12:02]

mycoDA:

no idea – dont have near enuf info

[11:12:14]

mycoDA:

tho weak is more common

[11:12:28]

mycoDA:

could also be a lot of noise

[11:12:37]

morgan:

hmm... my tv has no problems, yet the card seems to.. i know its a common problem but maybe not a common cause.

[11:12:50]

morgan:

i have a signal splitter I will end up using, but its not in the loop now

[11:13:05]

mycoDA:

if it is too much signal that could make the diff

[11:13:25]

morgan:

i hear this is a common problem, one i am hoping a splitter might assist

[11:13:55]

mycoDA:

how far from the transmitter are you?

[11:14:10]

morgan:

next question...

[11:14:19]

morgan:

i can google it i guess. brb

[11:15:25]

morgan:

nah i got nothing. brain fart

[11:15:40]

mycoDA:

that would be the most telling thing

[11:16:06]

mycoDA:

what region you in?

[11:16:11]

morgan:

burleigh

[11:17:14]

mycoDA:

mt tamborine?

[11:17:31]

morgan:

nah not really. i should be in a reasonable location

[11:17:40]

morgan:

whats the solution for each scenario

[11:18:18]

mycoDA:

too little signal, get a good amp

[11:18:33]

mycoDA:

too much signal, get an attenuator or splitting MIGHT work

[11:18:57]

mycoDA:

too much noise, get a more directional aerial (also works for too little signal)

[11:19:16]

mycoDA:

how far away is mt tamborine?

[11:19:30]

morgan:

prob 15km, but it is up a mountain

[11:19:43]

morgan:

Im basically 10kms (tops) directly south of surfers paradise

[11:19:47]

mycoDA:

pretty close

[11:19:49]

morgan:

im on a hill with good visibility

[11:19:59]

mycoDA:

which is better, nbn or the other channels?

[11:20:52]

morgan:

honestly, no probs at all on the TV, didn't thoroughly test the htpc, but it seemed to buffer n break up a fair bit, didn't pay attention to which channels neither

[11:21:27]

mycoDA:

i ask because apparently nbn tmits at half the power of the others

[11:21:36]

morgan:

tightarses

[11:21:54]

mycoDA:

if it were better, then you prolly have too much signal

[11:22:01]

morgan:

so if I can get nbn the same as the others (or better), then i got too much

[11:22:21]

morgan:

mycoDA – U are worth more money

[11:22:24]

mycoDA:

no – if u can get it better u have too much

[11:22:39]

mycoDA:

if you get it worse u proly have too little or too much noise

[11:22:44]

mycoDA:

lol thx :P

[11:22:54]

mycoDA:

what kind of aerial?

[11:23:30]

morgan:

couldn't tell ya but I'm guessing it aint fanc

[11:23:31]

morgan:

y

[11:27:54]

mycoDA:

good aerials are important

[11:28:09]

mycoDA:

and proly the easiest and cheapest bit to fix

[11:29:47]

morgan:

cheers, I'll have a squizz when I get a chance... cheers for all your help, gonna get horizontal n go to my happy place.. happy easter

[11:30:02]

mycoDA:

u2 dude

[11:30:24]

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[13:48:28]

jams_:

wagnerrp- there is a gsoc project to make smolt a bit more modular/plugin with respect to collecting data. Would any of the work you have done be applicable?

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[14:38:48]

Muzer:

I've been given an old computer with a TV capture card and no remote/IR sensor. I have my own capture card that I'd prefer it stayed in its current computer, but I don't need its remote – can I use the remote and sensor in the other capture card? What do I select when it asks me which remote I have?

[14:39:14]

justinh:

there's no guarantee that another remote receiver will work with a different TV tuner card even if they share a common type of connector

[14:39:52]

Muzer:

ah – I have no idea how this IR stuff actually works – it confuses me a bit ;)

[14:40:07]

justinh:

AFAIK most IR receivers which come with TV cards – those designed to plug into the tuner card itself – are just dumb devices & would in theory be interchangeable

[14:40:18]

justinh:

assuming they use the same pins on their respective connectors

[14:40:51]

Muzer:

they appear to (2.5mm jack)

[14:40:52]

justinh:

i.e. the little 3-pin jack connectors. I've seen them with 2.5mm & 3.5mm 'stereo' plugs on em

[14:40:55]

Muzer:

yeah

[14:41:02]

Muzer:

this one's "stereo"

[14:41:09]

justinh:

they generally are

[14:41:14]

Muzer:

I'm not sure what the socket is, as I said, I don't have the sensor it should have

[14:41:16]

justinh:

(if not always)

[14:41:39]

justinh:

I've seen sensors with different pin configurations... we were sent the wrong one by mistake where I work

[14:41:46]

Muzer:

so then let's suppose the sensors are inter-changeable – would a different remote work? Or would the card ignore the signals from the foreign remote?

[14:41:54]

justinh:

i.e. they had the output & power supply pins swapped over

[14:42:15]

justinh:

Muzer: assuming they're interchangeable, they're just a dumb sensor

[14:42:37]

justinh:

the actual decoding of the remote commands is done by a micro on the TV tuner card as far as I know

[14:43:24]

Muzer:

yeah

[14:43:27]

justinh:

so as to whether a different remote would work with the tuner card's micro is totally dependent on which codes it supports

[14:44:04]

Muzer:

hmm

[14:44:37]

justinh:

are the remote & tuner card by the same manufacturer?

[14:44:42]

justinh:

if so you stand more chance

[14:45:16]

Muzer:

I honestly have no clue where the tuner's from ;)

[14:45:24]

devinheitmueller:

Whether a different remote works depends on a couple of factors: whether the two remotes are of the same standard (RC5/RC6/NEC, etc), as well as tweaks you have to feed to the kernel to use a different keymap.

[14:45:47]

justinh:

Muzer: not even any clue about who makes it?

[14:45:49]

devinheitmueller:

If you don't know where the remote is from, then you will never find the keymap that is associated with it. Hence, it probably isn't worth your time/effort.

[14:45:54]

Muzer:

I DO have another remote (but not a sensor – the wire broke) that is more likely to be from the same model of tuner (it comes from a computer from the same manufacturer as this one)

[14:46:02]

justinh:

ugh

[14:46:06]

devinheitmueller:

... especially when you can buy full MCE kits including the remote for $20.

[14:46:07]

Muzer:

it came with a Fujitsu Siemens computer

[14:46:09]

justinh:

generic computer manufacturer tuners

[14:46:18]

Muzer:

yeah

[14:46:18]

justinh:

*avoid*

[14:46:24]

Muzer:

that's why I want to leave my one for which I have a remote in my current computer ;)

[14:47:43]

Muzer:

hell, I've got no idea if this tuner card is even supported under Linux ;)

[14:47:46]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: it's possible to use irrecord to learn codes from any remote.. assuming the receiving hardware allows you to do that.. and if you're using LIRC as opposed to the direct kernel stuff

[14:47:48]

Muzer:

I probably should have checked that first, heh

[14:48:13]

justinh:

Muzer: is it analogue or digital? if analogue does it do hardware encoding?

[14:48:24]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: correct, depends on the hardware. I don't doubt that it's possible – just that it probably isn't worth the hours it would take to figure it out.

[14:48:34]

justinh:

all of us here steer towards digital AND/OR hardware encoding analogue tuners

[14:48:35]

devinheitmueller:

In other words, there's no "two minute solution"

[14:48:40]

Muzer:

I'm assuming it's digital (if it's like the one in the other Fujitsu Siemens computer I had it is)

[14:48:42]

Muzer:

it's terrestrial

[14:49:01]

justinh:

Muzer: much more chance of it a) being useful to you and b) working in linux

[14:49:08]

jams_:

devinheitmueller- you mean streamzap =) the mce kits seem to change on a weekly basis so it's not a sure thing the receiver will work.

[14:49:21]

Muzer:

PCI ID 109e:036e (video) and 109e:0878 (audio)

[14:49:44]

devinheitmueller:

jams_:the MCE kits *generally* work, with the occasional need to add a new USB ID to the database.

[14:50:08]

Muzer:

I have a /dev/video0, so that's probably a good sign

[14:50:13]

justinh:

nope

[14:50:18]

justinh:

not necessarily

[14:50:27]

justinh:

DVB-T devices occupy /dev/dvb

[14:50:33]

Muzer:

(I'm using Mythbuntu – I would normally use Gentoo but I frankly couldn't be bothered to set it up ;))

[14:50:34]

devinheitmueller:

Wow, this is a bttv card. It's *really* old.

[14:50:46]

Muzer:

I have /dev/dvb/adapter0/ directory

[14:50:49]

Muzer:

:)

[14:51:00]

justinh:

that card uses a BT878 – maybe if it does DVB-T the BT878 chip is just used to sit on the PCI bus

[14:51:39]

Muzer:

dvb_bt8xx is loaded

[14:51:45]

justinh:

figures :)

[14:51:49]

justinh:

must be pretty old though

[14:51:57]

Muzer:

yeah

[14:52:02]

Muzer:

it's not a new computer, put it that way ;)

[14:52:04]

Muzer:

I got given it for free ;)

[14:52:16]

justinh:

with 'free' there's always a cost somewhere :D

[14:52:22]

devinheitmueller:

Save yourself some headaches (and us). Throw it in the garbage and spend $30 and buy a modern card.

[14:53:06]

justinh:

when did fujitsu-seimens stop making PCs anyway? ;-)

[14:53:32]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: isn't that tuner likely to be a nova-t clone ?

[14:53:50]

justinh:

i.e. one of the original nova-t cards.. would think it'd be ok still

[14:53:59]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: hard to say.

[14:54:01]

Muzer:

I'll give it a try with the remote from my other fujitsu siemens computer tuner card, then

[14:54:12]

devinheitmueller:

He's welcome to try to figure it out.

[14:54:20]

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[14:54:40]

Muzer:

since it's a Windows Media Centre remote, would I select "Windows Media Centre Transceivers/Remotes (all)"?

[14:54:44]

justinh:

Muzer: I'm with devinheitmueller on ditching the remote at least

[14:55:04]

justinh:

Muzer: if the remote receiver is one designed to plug into the tuner, all bets are off

[14:55:23]

justinh:

if it's USB.. then it's a different matter

[14:55:51]

devinheitmueller:

Also, the PCI ID is the default for brooktree. It's entirely possible that the card isn't supported *at all* and the /dev/video0 is being created because it's fallen back to the reference design.

[14:55:59]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: true

[14:56:21]

justinh:

but then my cx88 dvb-t tuners get /dev/video nodes created & they don't have analogue inputs

[14:56:25]

justinh:

*still*

[14:56:45]

Muzer:

well

[14:56:50]

Muzer:

there's only one way to find out if it works ;)

[14:57:02]

justinh:

AFAIK a lot of the DVB-T tuners that use video decoder chips generally do get /dev/video nodes whether they have analogue vid inputs or not

[14:57:24]

justinh:

Muzer: there's also voltages to consider though

[14:57:33]

justinh:

some IR sensors are 3.3V.. some run on 5V

[14:57:55]

justinh:

YMMV :-)

[14:58:00]

Muzer:

I COULD try repairing the other one, assuming I can find both ends

[14:58:13]

Muzer:

(the wire snapped as I said, should just be a simple case of soldering it together)

[14:58:18]

jams_:

devinheitmueller- yes generally they do work, just saying it's not always the drop in product that some claim it to be. Been biten to many times by devices claiming to be MCE.

[14:58:18]

Muzer:

but I'll try this first

[14:58:22]

justinh:

all you'd have to do is join the wires up :)

[14:58:31]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: that would be a bug. If you know of particular cases, you should report it to linux-media

[14:58:44]

justinh:

what's likely happened is that the (crappy) overmould has resulted in a wire breaking inside the cable

[14:59:14]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: is it still worth raising a bug on a very old driver? ;-)

[14:59:44]

devinheitmueller:

justinh: if you're talking about bttv, then probably not. But anything done in the last couple of years should not be creating /dev/videoX devices if analog is not supported in the card.

[14:59:46]

justinh:

been a long while since I checked LR6650 driver code :)

[15:00:08]

justinh:

it has the cx88 video decoder chip, used as the PCI interface, but that's as far as it gets

[15:00:37]

devinheitmueller:

The drivers have individual board profiles which allow the developer to indicate which features are supported (e.g. analog, digital)

[15:00:42]

justinh:

I never did get around to fitting the extra components just for giggles

[15:04:39]

Muzer:

actually

[15:04:43]

Muzer:

I think I just found a USB IR receiver :)

[15:04:49]

Muzer:

(unless it's just USB powered

[15:04:49]

Muzer:

)

[15:05:07]

Muzer:

has two jack ports and a USB B port

[15:05:22]

justinh:

the jack ports would be for IR blasters

[15:05:42]

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[15:05:46]

justinh:

devinheitmueller: LR6650 reference design (lazy thing, they just ommitted the vid inputs)

[15:05:47]

Muzer:

I'll plug it into my desktop and see what it says in dmesg

[15:06:13]

justinh:

cx22702 Conexant reference DVB-T design (cx22702/Thomson DTT7579(tua6034))

[15:06:37]

Muzer:

well, it's detected it with USB ID 0609:031d

[15:06:58]

justinh:

ah, same IDs as the DTV1000 card... which has the vid. inputs. LOL. what a MESS

[15:07:04]

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[15:07:56]

Muzer:

it didn't work in 2006 according to a random blog ;P

[15:08:09]

justinh:

random blogs have a whole load to answer for

[15:08:16]

justinh:

but FWIW not much worked in 2006 ;)

[15:08:47]

Muzer:

http://eubolist.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/set- . . . ote-control/ <-- apparently thins works, I'll give it a try...

[15:09:03]

justinh:

sigh

[15:09:12]

justinh:

blogs should not be used for technical matters like this

[15:09:21]

justinh:

"here is what I did do get $THING working:"

[15:09:35]

Muzer:

well, they do contain pretty good answers sometimes ;)

[15:09:39]

justinh:

which is fine, but should generally *not* be taken as a guide for YOU to get things working

[15:09:44]

Muzer:

ah, actually, LIRC has detected it on my soon-to-be-media-centre

[15:09:57]

Muzer:

so I probably don't need to do anything at all

[15:10:08]

justinh:

I'm assuming you're using mythbuntu or similar

[15:10:17]

Muzer:

yeah, as I mentioned earlier

[15:10:26]

Muzer:

I would normally be using Gentoo but I honestly couldn't be bothered with all the setup

[15:10:27]

Muzer:

:P

[15:10:51]

justinh:

try being a noob, having gentoo recommended by a friend..

[15:11:01]

justinh:

then finding you have to patch the kernel to make the tuner work

[15:11:16]

Muzer:

yeah, it's actually a receiver for the remote I thought had a broken USB receiver

[15:11:24]

Muzer:

s/USB/jack/

[15:11:35]

Muzer:

but actually that jack receiver that's broken, I've no idea where it's come from :P

[15:11:45]

justinh:

ahh, thought as much. you hadn't mentioned mythbuntu before – but I assumed as such

[15:11:55]

Muzer:

pretty sure I have

[15:11:59]

justinh:

nope

[15:12:02]

justinh:

I just looked in the log :)

[15:12:12]

Muzer:

[15:50] <justinh> DVB-T devices occupy /dev/dvb

[15:12:12]

Muzer:

[15:50] <Muzer> (I'm using Mythbuntu – I would normally use Gentoo but I frankly couldn't be bothered to set it up ;))

[15:12:25]

Muzer:

huh

[15:12:28]

Muzer:

thanks a lot BIOS

[15:12:35]

Muzer:

"System Monitoring: Sensor failed"

[15:12:39]

Muzer:

very informative error message

[15:12:53]

justinh:

ahh

[15:12:55]

justinh:

my bad

[15:13:09]

Muzer:

ah, just went into the BIOS, the CPU thermal sensor has failed...

[15:13:12]

Muzer:

that's... probably not a good thing :P

[15:13:14]

justinh:

anyway, had to be something like that or you wouldn't have said stuff about selecting which remote you had

[15:13:44]

Muzer:

yeah

[15:13:45]

justinh:

Muzer: heh no, probably isn't a very good thing :P

[15:13:58]

** Muzer tries a power cycle **

[15:14:02]

Muzer:

it'll let me boot but it's worrying me :P

[15:14:29]

Muzer:

meh

[15:14:36]

Muzer:

I'm sure I can survive without a CPU thermal sensor :P

[15:14:40]

justinh:

this is the price of 'free'

[15:14:55]

Muzer:

lol, indeed ;P

[15:14:56]

justinh:

might be that the voltage reference has disappeared..

[15:15:10]

Muzer:

it seems to be booting just fine

[15:15:17]

justinh:

could be indicative that a voltage regulator is going byebyes

[15:15:23]

justinh:

e.g. Vcore

[15:15:26]

Muzer:

well

[15:15:30]

Muzer:

I say that, X seems to have failed :P

[15:15:37]

Muzer:

oh wait, I stand corrected

[15:15:48]

Muzer:

er

[15:15:49]

justinh:

I've had that happen.. VCore regulator fails.. KABOOM goes the CPU & everything on the bus

[15:15:57]

Muzer:

:/

[15:16:08]

Muzer:

VCore regulator's on the mobo isn't it? Or is it all in the PSU?

[15:16:16]

justinh:

on the board, yeahj

[15:16:30]

Muzer:

hmm, the GPU seems to have utterly failed :/

[15:16:42]

Muzer:

I assume it's just shitty ubuntu with its no-worky drivers :P

[15:16:59]

justinh:

reference for the temp. sensor is likely not derived from vcore – but one onboard regulator going down is a bad enough sign

[15:17:06]

justinh:

watch yer language in here please

[15:17:23]

justinh:

and FWIW it's unusual for ubuntu not to work out of the box

[15:17:46]

Muzer:

I could never get the NVIDIA drivers working

[15:17:51]

Muzer:

this is ATi, something I've never used before

[15:17:58]

justinh:

oh dear Lord

[15:18:07]

Muzer:

s/working/working the way Ubuntu was trying to get them working/

[15:18:20]

Muzer:

(I always had to install NVIDIA stuff manually)

[15:18:39]

justinh:

never had any problems with the restricted driver manager stuff

[15:19:01]

Muzer:

that has never worked for me

[15:19:19]

justinh:

I retired my last backend machine a while ago

[15:19:40]

Muzer:

how would you get a video fallback mode in Ubuntu?

[15:19:49]

justinh:

spent less than £200 on a new case, PSU, motherboard, CPU & RAM.. oh and 8400 Nvidia card :)

[15:20:03]

Muzer:

as not even TTY is working

[15:20:05]

Muzer:

(I blame KMS)

[15:20:15]

justinh:

has to be a pretty crummy/old VGA card for things to be that bad, mind

[15:20:47]

Muzer:

here we go

[15:20:48]

justinh:

I think I've only ever seen a 15 year old laptop (with godknows what chipset) fail to boot a *buntu live cd

[15:20:57]

Muzer:

it booted the live CD just fine

[15:21:02]

Muzer:

but during setup I chose the proprietary drivers

[15:21:13]

Muzer:

as I assumed the FOSS drivers weren't any good, as is the case with NVIDIA

[15:21:16]

justinh:

ahh well, see...

[15:21:43]

Muzer:

so, now I have two options – reinstall it, or figure out how to change from proprietary drivers to FOSS ;)

[15:21:51]

justinh:

ATI seem to have this annoying habit (I could be misinformed, mind) of dropping cards from their binary drivers at astonishing frequency

[15:22:01]

Muzer:

that's probably it

[15:22:04]

Muzer:

considering this is AGP

[15:22:36]

Muzer:

ah, I can boot into a fallback X driver... I assume that's just VESA

[15:22:52]

justinh:

yup

[15:23:00]

justinh:

that should be enough to get you going

[15:23:07]

Muzer:

what? That's just a lie

[15:23:11]

justinh:

but don't bank on even the OSS driver having Xv

[15:23:14]

Muzer:

"No proprietary drivers are in use on this system"

[15:23:19]

justinh:

and you need Xv

[15:23:20]

Muzer:

UBUNTU! /me shakes fist

[15:23:31]

justinh:

maybe they didn't load cos your card is too old :P

[15:24:13]

Muzer:

wtf

[15:24:13]

wagnerrp:

what card?

[15:24:16]

Muzer:

this really isn't going well :P

[15:25:10]

Muzer:

wagnerrp, PCI ID 1002:4172

[15:25:21]

Muzer:

ATI RV350 AR [Radeon 9600]

[15:25:48]

Muzer:

and 1002:4152 actually – what is it with there being two PCI IDs for half the devices in this system? ;)

[15:25:49]

wagnerrp:

eew...

[15:26:05]

wagnerrp:

you would be better off with the OSS radeon driver for that one

[15:26:14]

wagnerrp:

fglrx hasnt supported that in half a decade

[15:26:33]

Muzer:

I think I need to reinstall Mythbuntu, as the other side of things has mysteriously failed too :P

[15:26:40]

Muzer:

it's refusing to connect to its own backend :P

[15:26:47]

justinh:

ah

[15:27:08]

justinh:

that's a typical symptom of breezing through the setup options without paying particular attention to them

[15:27:11]

justinh:

easy done

[15:27:22]

Muzer:

I was paying attention, actually...

[15:27:24]

justinh:

you really have to be very careful

[15:27:38]

Muzer:

I chose the frontend and primary backend system

[15:27:59]

wagnerrp:

refusing to connect to itself is an indication that you screwed up the IPs

[15:28:14]

justinh:

or the mysql setup screens...

[15:28:22]

Muzer:

I didn't ever type an IP – this is mythbuntu, remember ;)

[15:28:26]

justinh:

mind, I dunno if mythbuntu setup still bothers with that

[15:29:10]

justinh:

haven't taken a mythbuntu disc for an idiot-test testdrive for a while now

[15:29:33]

justinh:

i.e. insert disc, boot up, blindly hit RETURN for every single option that pops up

[15:29:38]

wagnerrp:

justinh: so on mythtvtalk, theres a request for DVB-C help from a 'mikehunt'

[15:29:45]

justinh:

LOL

[15:29:48]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if thats a poor soul's real name

[15:30:17]

justinh:

I stopped visiting there after Ludo's last PM asking me to donate

[15:30:45]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats the kind of name you call in anonymously to a bar and ask to talk to

[15:30:51]

justinh:

where the heck does he remain with that host that costs so much?

[15:30:59]

sid3windr:

lol wagnerrp

[15:31:12]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yeah we used to wind up the receptionist where I worked a few years aho

[15:31:15]

justinh:

*ago

[15:31:16]

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[15:31:36]

justinh:

that and sending new employees to stores for their initiation

[15:32:37]

justinh:

the hilarity which ensued... priceless... two hard-nosed girls worked in stores.. a young new production line droid goes to the hatch & asks for a dozen Fallopian tubes.. a long stand... or any number of things..

[15:33:05]

jams_:

wagnerrp- there is a gsoc project to make smolt a bit more modular/plugin with respect to collecting data. Would any of the work you have done be applicable?

[15:33:27]

justinh:

Muzer: anyway, seriously -it IS still quite easy to mess up a mythbuntu install

[15:33:30]

wagnerrp:

jams_: most or all of it

[15:33:39]

jams_:

thought so

[15:33:58]

justinh:

Muzer: otherwise we wouldn't still get so many people in here with similar problems :)

[15:34:02]

Muzer:

heh

[15:34:05]

jams_:

Feel like sending it over. It might give the gsoc a good headstart.

[15:34:21]

jams_:

we can let someone else deal with the translations =)

[15:34:43]

Muzer:

I'll be extra careful this time

[15:34:51]

Muzer:

but I swear I didn't actually get given (m)any options :p

[15:35:12]

justinh:

AFAIK the mysql setup stuff still isn't all automatic. I could be wrong though

[15:35:22]

justinh:

like, you can still override the defaults

[15:35:53]

Muzer:

I'm now being asked what type of system it will be – I would assume I want to go for "Primary Backend w/ Frontend" (as I want this to be a completely self-contained system)

[15:36:14]

justinh:

the default behaviour is for the installer to make a mythtv mysql user with a randomly generated password

[15:36:37]

justinh:

it then tells you what that password is, asks you to make a note of it, tells you which file it's also stored in & how to find it

[15:36:41]

Muzer:

and now it's asking me which additional services I want (things like VNC, Samba, NFS, etc.)

[15:36:54]

Muzer:

and now it's asking me what remote I want to use

[15:36:59]

justinh:

maybe they just hide all the mysql config bits now..

[15:37:06]

Muzer:

I think they do

[15:37:13]

wagnerrp:

jams_: basically yeah, it just needs a try: block to handle failing to load plugins (for instance failing to load MythTV)

[15:37:17]

Muzer:

as there was already a random-looking password filled it when it was giving me the connection failed error

[15:37:20]

justinh:

and just assume it's all gonna be random password & transparent to users

[15:37:20]

wagnerrp:

and the translations

[15:37:23]

wagnerrp:

plus some cleanup

[15:37:33]

wagnerrp:

other than that, it should be ready for server support

[15:37:41]

justinh:

Muzer: that being the case, it very much should *not* be spewing out errors about not being able to connect

[15:37:57]

Muzer:

yeah

[15:37:59]

Muzer:

it was pretty weird

[15:38:13]

Muzer:

right, FOSS driver ;)

[15:38:22]

justinh:

although the retardedness of ubuntu's network manager can mean that mythtv-backend can start before the network.. resulting in many a failure

[15:38:37]

justinh:

though IIRC mythbuntu doesn't use the network manager

[15:38:55]

Muzer:

justinh, pretty sure it does, as I had a network connected message appear when I booted

[15:39:11]

Muzer:

and now, I wait...

[15:39:18]

justinh:

there've been isolated cases of mythtv-backend starting before mysql too

[15:39:31]

Muzer:

bear in mind this WAS in recovery mode

[15:39:32]

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[15:39:37]

Muzer:

which could have something to do with it, maybe...

[15:39:47]

justinh:

a livecd with a recovery mode? heh

[15:40:09]

Muzer:

no, this was the final installation

[15:40:18]

Muzer:

as I said, the installation went fine

[15:40:21]

wagnerrp:

jams_: heres the whole thing... http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/hardwareprofiler.tar.bz2

[15:40:26]

Muzer:

‎(I never really used the live mode)

[15:40:29]

wagnerrp:

honestly, i havent touched it in a month

[15:41:06]

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[15:41:37]

justinh:

wagnerrp: just looked at Mike's post. Doesn't seem like a very Dutch name, that ;-)

[15:42:39]

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[15:42:52]

jams_:

thanks wagnerrp

[15:43:14]

jams_:

right, that link does work

[15:43:30]

jams_:

not found

[15:44:00]

wagnerrp:

oh, no extra 'r

[15:44:22]

wagnerrp:

link should work now

[15:44:39]

jams_:

got it

[15:45:28]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: have you ever seen another commercial TV system that allowed users to renumber channels?

[15:47:36]

sid3windr:

do you mean a dvb receiver which allows users to renumber channels?

[15:47:46]

wagnerrp:

yes

[15:47:55]

justinh:

that'd be a first, no?

[15:48:02]

wagnerrp:

the receiver just uses whatever channels the broadcasters told it to

[15:48:07]

Muzer:

many DVB-T receivers ("Freeview") sold in this country do

[15:48:08]

sid3windr:

I can renumber them

[15:48:09]

justinh:

you're lucky if a commercial STB lets you re-order channels

[15:48:16]

sid3windr:

on my commercial dvb-c stb

[15:48:23]

Muzer:

not all, but certainly a lot of them

[15:48:31]

justinh:

Muzer: re-order, arrange.. not *renumber* yikes

[15:48:40]

sid3windr:

which is nice, because due to some monetary agreements, the channels are f'd up

[15:48:48]

sid3windr:

we have a channel called "1", they put it on 2

[15:48:49]

Muzer:

yeah, renumber!

[15:48:51]

sid3windr:

VT4 is on 3

[15:48:53]

sid3windr:

2BE is on 5

[15:48:55]

sid3windr:

etc :p

[15:49:00]

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[15:49:12]

justinh:

Muzer: I dunno how they ever got the right to put the 'Freeview' logo on the box, then

[15:49:14]

sid3windr:

5TV on 6.. :)

[15:49:23]

justinh:

pretty sure channel numbers are de-facto on Freeview

[15:49:27]

devinheitmueller:

FIOS settop boxes do have a really nice feature: if you change to an SD channel where there is an equivalent HD channel, it will show the HD channel instead.

[15:49:27]

Muzer:

justinh, the Freeview spec is incredibly lenien

[15:49:29]

Muzer:

*lenient

[15:49:30]

sid3windr:

but yes, I can put 1 back on 1 and then that's there :)

[15:49:45]

devinheitmueller:

... which is really helpful where everybody knows that CBS is on channel 2, but the HD version is channel 297.

[15:49:49]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: directv stbs do the same thing

[15:49:56]

Muzer:

doesn't forbid you from doing anything AFAIK

[15:50:05]

sid3windr:

devinheitmueller: ours don't :[

[15:50:07]

Muzer:

just dictates what it should be able to do, not what it shouldn't

[15:50:27]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: although, the dtv stbs just "simulcast" the HD/SD on the same channel number

[15:50:36]

skd5aner:

you can say "show both SD and HD" or just show HD

[15:50:53]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: I don't know if that's true – I haven't looked at the underlying frequencies. But you could certainly be correct.

[15:51:01]

skd5aner:

well...

[15:51:02]

Muzer:

but yeah, our default numbering system in this country is sane if not consistent between platforms ;)

[15:51:02]

justinh:

changing channel numbers is a *bad* idea IMHO

[15:51:08]

Muzer:

(though the first 5 channels are always the same)

[15:51:09]

skd5aner:

that's why I put it in quotes :)

[15:51:33]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: I don't know what the actual frequencies are – just saying they are presented to the user as the same channel numbers

[15:51:35]

justinh:

of the first 5 channels, none of them carry anything I consider worth watching most of the time :D

[15:51:49]

Muzer:

justinh, really? I watch most stuff on the first 5

[15:51:52]

Muzer:

well, the first 4 ;)

[15:52:03]

Muzer:

'cause everyone knows Channel 5 is rubbish :P

[15:52:04]

justinh:

my wife needs help. Avid ITV viewer

[15:52:15]

justinh:

I don't consider 5 to be any worse than ITV

[15:52:21]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: so, channel "59" has both an HD and SD broadcast – and in the guide you will see 59 twice. If you flip the setting to only allow HD, it'll hide the SD equivalent

[15:52:30]

devinheitmueller:

ah

[15:52:34]

Muzer:

oh yeah, ITV is pretty awful, but they do get licenses for some half-decent programmes sometimes

[15:52:46]

justinh:

Muzer: like what?

[15:52:59]

skd5aner:

instead of the SD is 59, HD is 1059 or whatever (which is basically what TWC does for me)

[15:53:07]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: that is actually better, since you can just remove the SD version from the lineup. Pretty frustrating that end-users are supposed to know the exact channel numbers for HD equivalents here.

[15:53:13]

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[15:53:19]

Muzer:

well, not much recently actually :P

[15:53:20]

skd5aner:

same for me

[15:53:29]

skd5aner:

Mine's even worse...

[15:53:31]

Muzer:

yeah, ITV is pretty rubbish nowadays come to think of it

[15:53:44]

justinh:

blocky, too :)

[15:53:52]

devinheitmueller:

Wouldn't ahve been so bad if they just added 1000. Here in Cablevision though, there is no easy-to-remember correlation.

[15:53:53]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: for example, the way TWC is starting lable their channels are universal now

[15:53:53]

justinh:

Mmmm 704x576

[15:54:03]

Muzer:

just wait until they put the ninth video stream on Mux 2

[15:54:09]

Muzer:

then it'll be blocky ;)

[15:54:09]

justinh:

WHAT?!

[15:54:13]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: so, 2–99, still SD analog....

[15:54:23]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: then 100–999, SD digital

[15:54:31]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: then 1000+ HD

[15:54:33]

wagnerrp:

wow... fanless GT210 for $10 (after MIR) on newegg

[15:54:50]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: so, ABC OTA broadcast here is channel 9

[15:54:51]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: that's not too bad.

[15:54:51]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: have fun with those 1000+ channels

[15:55:03]

Muzer:

I think E4 wants to move to Mux 2 in Wales (they're on Mux A in Wales due to S4C being on Mux 2), and I think in the rest of the country some other channel will go there

[15:55:11]

justinh:

sigh

[15:55:11]

Muzer:

possibly ITV2+1

[15:55:22]

justinh:

why do we even have +1 channels?

[15:55:26]

Muzer:

(as that's on reduced hours at the moment, as it timeshares with CITV)

[15:55:27]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt do 4-digit channels

[15:55:39]

Muzer:

justinh, cheap way to increase advertising revenue ;)

[15:55:43]

justinh:

it's not as if stuff isn't repeated enough

[15:56:01]

Muzer:

I do find them useful sometimes

[15:56:03]

justinh:

Muzer: they can't use it to increase revenue. things are tight enough for them as it is :)

[15:56:16]

Muzer:

like if I miss the start of a programme, or if there's a recording conflict

[15:56:19]

justinh:

Muzer: wait til you've been using mythtv a while

[15:56:24]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: better example – NBC is channel 36 OTA, but channel 6 SD analog cable, channel 120 SD Digital, and channel 1120 HD Digital

[15:56:29]

justinh:

multirec :D

[15:56:44]

justinh:

3 physical tuners.. and now with only 5 muxes...

[15:56:47]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: ?

[15:57:02]

Muzer:

yeah, the numbering systems are completely different on each platform in this country

[15:57:10]

Muzer:

apart from the first 5 which are always at 1–5 or 101–105

[15:57:12]

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[15:57:13]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: well, that's a bit annoying given non-technical users probably only know NBC as channel 6.

[15:57:24]

justinh:

dunno why virgin et al have to start at 101

[15:57:32]

justinh:

prolly some crap software limitation

[15:57:33]

Muzer:

Sky, Virgin, Freesat

[15:57:36]

Muzer:

becoming the majority now ;)

[15:57:49]

Muzer:

it's quicker to type 3 digits and switch instantly than to type 1 and wait for the timeout, I assume

[15:57:50]

justinh:

freeview FTW

[15:57:52]

skd5aner:

yea... the analog part is still the old completey random way everyone is used to – they've however done a pretty good job of cleaning up and organizing all digital (100+) channels

[15:58:02]

Muzer:

except on my Freesat box that point is defeated as it expects a 4-digit channel number :/

[15:58:03]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: mythtv only does up to 3-digit channels for external grabbers

[15:58:06]

** justinh wishes a pox on satellite **

[15:58:09]

Muzer:

even though Freesat channels are all 3 digits :/

[15:58:12]

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[15:58:12]

wagnerrp:

theres a patch siting on trac

[15:58:39]

wagnerrp:

which i believe hasnt been committed, as there is more to it than just adding that extra digit

[15:58:49]

justinh:

anyway, time to head home :-)

[15:58:51]

Muzer:

I like satellite due to CBS Action, due to Star Trek ;)

[15:59:24]

Muzer:

right, moment of truth

[15:59:44]

Muzer:

it's given me a TTY...

[15:59:49]

Muzer:

ooh, and here's a bootsplash

[16:00:01]

Muzer:

hooray, X has started

[16:00:48]

Muzer:

and it appears to be set up

[16:00:56]

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[16:00:58]

Muzer:

all by itself#

[16:01:07]

Muzer:

even my remote works :ZD

[16:01:12]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: funny – it's worked fine for me for the last 2 years :)

[16:02:23]

wagnerrp:

i dont think im imagining this

[16:03:12]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: TWC has now arranges the 100's the be local programming, 200's kids/learning/faith, 300's, entertainment/home & leisure, and shopping – 400s, News, info, and music – 500s, sports – 600s, movies, 700s, premium and ppv- 800s, international – 900s, music choice, and 1000+ is digital

[16:03:43]

skd5aner:

s/digital/high-def

[16:03:50]

devinheitmueller:

That all seems pretty reasonable in concept. My only gripe was about the correlation between analog and hi-def.

[16:04:05]

skd5aner:

so, if channels 100–999 have an HD equivalent, just had a "1" to the front of it to get the HD broadcast

[16:04:11]

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[16:04:31]

devinheitmueller:

... and the fact that you end up littered with a channel lineup full of double channels, not clearly knowing which channels are in SD only versus which are in both SD and HD.

[16:04:53]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: yea, so analog channels 2–99 still have 0 correlation to the SD digital or HD ditial lineups :P

[16:05:05]

skd5aner:

tripples, in my case

[16:05:35]

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[16:05:37]

skd5aner:

I've had to hide all the SD Digital channels in my lineup that also have SD analog and/or HD digital channels

[16:06:13]

skd5aner:

No need to let the scheduler choose between NBC Analog SD, NBC digital SD, and NBC digital HD

[16:06:20]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: sure, that's what most advanced users would do – a nontrivial exercise especially since you end up having to figure out exactly which channels don't have HD equivalents.

[16:06:51]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: maybe im thinking of some firewire issue, but that seems to have been fixed

[16:06:53]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I still don't understand? my external channel changer has been using 4 digital channels numbers fine for a long time?

[16:07:08]

skd5aner:

and it does it over firewire

[16:07:37]

skd5aner:

that said, there are some STBs and certain scripts that handle it better than others – perhaps thats what you are thinking of

[16:07:55]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: yea – it kind of sucks – ha

[16:07:58]

Muzer:

it's a lot more fun in this country where analogue terrestrial channel numbers are different for each transmitter – so people usually stick to the convention of choosing logical channels 1–5 for BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, Channel 4, Channel 5 respectively

[16:08:44]

skd5aner:

Muzer: there's no logic in the US

[16:08:54]

Muzer:

yeah, I hear

[16:09:05]

Muzer:

each channel operates their own transmitters

[16:09:07]

Muzer:

that's what I call crazy

[16:09:21]

Muzer:

no wonder people stick to cable over there ;)

[16:09:23]

skd5aner:

NBC OTA is whatever the local affiliate is licensed to broadcast at – and cable rarely adopts that station number – which I've never understood

[16:11:07]

skd5aner:

let's not even get into QAM station numbers ;)

[16:11:08]

jams_:

skd5aner- agreed that never made sense to me either

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[16:48:10]

skd5aner:

heh – You locked my last ticket, and the one before that, so obviously this third ticket will make you see my point :)

[16:49:11]

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[16:54:06]

sphery:

skd5aner: great, now you let out the secret, so everyone will know how to get us to do whatever they want

[16:54:39]

skd5aner:

Beatlejuice... Beatlejuice...

[16:54:52]

sphery:

the worst part is that guy is saying the channels become unreachable, but likely he just doesn't realize how to use MythTV's Live TV

[16:55:08]

trumee:

guys, can i get some input on a case i am planning to buy. http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6564

[16:55:22]

sphery:

i.e. they will be visible in browse mode or EPG unless they have the same callsign, and if he's swapping numbers of 2 different channels, they better not have the same callsign

[16:56:08]

trumee:

Instead of putting the case vertical i want to put it on its side. The side panel fans will suck in air and it will come out from the top fan.

[16:56:10]

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[16:56:27]

sphery:

skd5aner: heh, you been watching Family Guy, or just coincidental timing of a reference to an old movie

[16:56:55]

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[16:56:58]

trumee:

Unfortunately since the case will be on its side, that means air will be sucked in against the rising hot air. I am worried if that is a bad design

[16:57:25]

skd5aner:

trumee: cases are almost always are user preference – I prefer silverstone and antec cases

[16:57:34]

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[16:57:34]

skd5aner:

doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that one

[16:57:35]

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[16:57:36]

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[16:57:53]

trumee:

skd5aner: i need something which can take 5–6 internel hdd. It is a FE/BE server

[16:58:04]

skd5aner:

Is it going to be seen?

[16:58:08]

trumee:

skd5aner: yes

[16:58:19]

skd5aner:

Because if it's just a server, I like the antec P series

[16:58:24]

skd5aner:

P180/P183

[16:58:40]

skd5aner:

they're huge though

[16:58:44]

trumee:

skd5aner: how does fan cooling work if i put it on its side

[16:59:16]

skd5aner:

as long as you have an exhaust port that's not blocked, it should be fine

[16:59:30]

skd5aner:

(with a fan on it)

[16:59:40]

skd5aner:

if you have an inlet fan too, it should also not be blocked

[17:00:22]

wagnerrp:

for how large they are, the 18x systems are fairly light on internal space

[17:00:32]

skd5aner:

looks to me like it has a inlet fan on the front near the drive cage and you can put a fan on the top of the case and/or the rear

[17:00:51]

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[17:01:35]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: 6 HDD slots, and 4 5.25 slots (which you could use adapter brackets with)

[17:01:58]

wagnerrp:

3 in the bottom cage, 2 in the mid cage, plus the external bay

[17:02:01]

skd5aner:

I've got one of the original P180s from ~2007ish

[17:02:02]

trumee:

skd5aner: When the case is lying on its side panel, the top becomes a side. That means exhaust is from the side of the panel, which goes agaisnt the principle of natural convection

[17:02:16]

wagnerrp:

the problem is these are all in isolated bays

[17:02:17]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: 4 in the bottom cage, 2 in the middle cage (horizontal)

[17:02:33]

skd5aner:

plus the external floppy bay

[17:02:33]

wagnerrp:

you can stuff a decent amount of hardware in then, but theyre /very/ cramped

[17:02:57]

wagnerrp:

plus i keep breaking the front door and USB modules

[17:03:20]

skd5aner:

on the antec?

[17:03:22]

trumee:

So top suction and side exhaust is not a problem?

[17:03:38]

skd5aner:

trumee: that's how all desktops used to work

[17:04:12]

wagnerrp:

trumee: yes, that is a problem

[17:04:12]

skd5aner:

trumee: also, it looks like the case you are lookign at has 92mm fan slots on the case side

[17:04:22]

wagnerrp:

you should never try to pull air down into a case

[17:04:44]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: he' laying it on the side

[17:04:44]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: yeah, ive bought like 4 replacement doors for those cases over the years

[17:04:52]

trumee:

skd5aner: 120/140mm on the case side

[17:04:58]

trumee:

wagnerrp: that is exactly my problem

[17:05:03]

wagnerrp:

and as many USB front bay modules

[17:05:13]

wagnerrp:

trumee: if youre going to lay it on its side, why are you buying a tower?

[17:05:23]

trumee:

wagnerrp: what choice do i have?

[17:05:38]

skd5aner:

trumee: what's the issue with the inlet fan on the front pulling air in, and the outlets on the back and "top" (which would be the side when laid horizontally?

[17:05:45]

trumee:

wagnerrp: is there any other case which can take 5 hdds and doesnt cost a fortune

[17:06:12]

wagnerrp:

what are your requirements?

[17:06:15]

skd5aner:

you could also put exhaust fans if you really wanted to on the size of the case (which would be the top when layed horizontally)

[17:06:39]

trumee:

skd5aner: no issue with that. But the advantage of air pulled in from the top is that it will cool the cpu/ram too

[17:07:04]

skd5aner:

put another fan in the side (top) of the case then

[17:07:41]

trumee:

skd5aner: an exhaust fan can be turned around to become an inlet fan?

[17:07:46]

skd5aner:

Not sure I see the big deal here

[17:07:51]

skd5aner:

sure, any fan can be turned around

[17:08:03]

trumee:

skd5aner: right.

[17:08:05]

skd5aner:

depends if you're shooting for postitive case pressure or negative

[17:08:27]

wagnerrp:

trumee: back to the original question, why is this on its side?

[17:08:54]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea, the lower cage in the p180 is kind of frustrating to get the sata cables in there AND keep it off the fan

[17:09:04]

trumee:

wagnerrp: because the case is sitting on a table, and for stability reasons it is better to have on its side

[17:09:25]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[17:09:26]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I'm wondering how much better the P183 has resolved some of the initial design issues – but I've had no problem with the front door/usb ports

[17:09:34]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: that said, I only have to open it a few times a year

[17:09:42]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: i ended up buying a grille to bolt in place there

[17:10:21]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: yea – I was going to do that, but didn't because of the bracket holding the fan doesn't line up with the holes – so I'd hve to remove the bracket and use bolts – which really isn't an issue – but

[17:10:52]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: i may have just jammed it in place, im still using the stock attach mechanism

[17:11:38]

skd5aner:

I'm all filled up on drive compartments – so I've got a few brackets to expand into the 5.25 bays

[17:11:41]

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[17:11:58]

wagnerrp:

trumee: why not something like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219037

[17:12:10]

skd5aner:

It's getting harder and harder to "replace" a 750GB drive – it wasn't so hard when the drivers were <= 500GB

[17:12:32]

skd5aner:

I mean – mentally -

[17:12:53]

skd5aner:

obviously it's easy to replace – but 750GB still feels like a huge amount of space :)

[17:13:22]

trumee:

wagnerrp: oops! that is shit expensive

[17:13:28]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: heh – because he said it's going to be a frontend too and seen

[17:13:44]

wagnerrp:

watch the language

[17:14:00]

wagnerrp:

do you need a lot of slots for tuners and expansion cards?

[17:14:07]

trumee:

wagnerrp: yes

[17:14:18]

wagnerrp:

trumee: to be fair, thats around $100 for the case and $150 for the hotswap bays

[17:14:35]

trumee:

wagnerrp: i will pass that one

[17:15:07]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: if this is intended to be a visible frontend, i DEFINITELY wouldnt want that coolermaster

[17:16:05]

trumee:

wagnerrp: i dont care too much about aestheticsd

[17:16:38]

wagnerrp:

case with 6 hard drives that can be put next to the computer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112265

[17:16:44]

trumee:

wagnerrp: but functionality/price balance is more important

[17:19:37]

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[17:42:07]

kormoc:

skd5aner, 750 huge? I laugh at your tiny drive! ;)

[17:45:45]

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[17:52:21]

clever:

kormoc: hows 1.5tb?

[17:53:55]

wagnerrp:

tiny

[17:54:07]

clever:

lol

[17:55:04]

wagnerrp:

anything under 2TB is tiny

[17:55:06]

wagnerrp:

2TB is small

[17:55:09]

wagnerrp:

3TB is average

[17:55:14]

wagnerrp:

4TB is behind schedule

[17:55:41]

kormoc:

Yeah, I don't own anything smaller then 2 tb (in 3.5" form factor). It's not worth the hassle

[17:56:03]

clever:

1.5tb is the biggest i have

[17:56:27]

clever:

3tb is the total between my 3 biggest file systems (one is an lvm array of 4 drives)

[17:56:41]

clever:

only way i can get 'average' is to add 6 drives up:S

[17:56:59]

kormoc:

Get a job and join the rest of us as productive valued members of society

[17:57:27]

clever:

the smell usualy sends people running and screaming

[17:57:39]

iamlindoro:

Some things never change, sigh

[17:57:51]

kormoc:

indeed...

[17:58:18]

iamlindoro:

seems we were having this same conversation literally years ago

[17:58:36]

kormoc:

We most certainly did

[18:00:04]

kormoc:

clever, you have universal health care. You need to go to a psychologist. You have mental health issues.

[18:01:27]

clever:

i'm a bit confused on that part, because dad has mentioned how the paperwork hasnt been filled out and i dont have health insurance

[18:01:49]

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[18:01:59]

kormoc:

go fill it out on your own. You have a SIN number

[18:03:33]

clever:

no idea what the SIN is though

[18:03:55]

clever:

/dev/urandom probly wont get it right

[18:03:57]

kormoc:

You should be embarrassed.

[18:05:46]

kormoc:

You're flat refusal to even make token efforts to help yourself is the prefect troll or just so bloody sad that kicking a kitten would be more fun...

[18:06:01]

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[18:07:36]

clever:

hmmm, no sign of my SIN in my wallet

[18:07:37]

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[18:08:07]

Beirdo:

how can you not know your SIN number?

[18:09:27]

clever:

never had to really do anything with it before

[18:09:32]

iamlindoro:

Pretty much the same way you manage to smell like a thai hooker, neglectfulness

[18:09:58]

Beirdo:

jeez, if you are older than 13, you really should be ashamed of yourself

[18:10:16]

clever:

24....

[18:10:22]

kormoc:

Beirdo, he's only 22? 24? You can't expect him to have basic hygenenics down! That's advanced stuff!

[18:10:43]

Beirdo:

let alone yearly tax forms... employment...

[18:11:08]

kormoc:

Beirdo, he's never been employed, lives like a leech off of his parents

[18:11:13]

wagnerrp:

you dont have tax forms if you dont have income

[18:11:18]

clever:

wagnerrp: exactly

[18:11:28]

kormoc:

Beirdo, and thus they enable him to be a worthless lump of meat

[18:11:31]

Beirdo:

hence why you should be ashamed

[18:11:55]

wagnerrp:

speaking of which, anyone notice they pushed tax day back to today this year?

[18:12:04]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, yeah... wtf was up with that?

[18:12:07]

Beirdo:

yeah, I heard that... after I filed :)

[18:12:16]

kormoc:

I file as early as I can

[18:12:34]

Beirdo:

I (stupidly) waited for my PR info to arrive

[18:12:46]

Beirdo:

although I coulda filed with IRS for the US half... months ago

[18:14:10]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: There was very, very late legislation that resulted in them not accepting efile for quite a while past the normal opening date, I assumed the extension was a result of that

[18:14:37]

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[18:14:43]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: it was for snailmail

[18:14:54]

wagnerrp:

mailed in forms had to be postmarked by today

[18:15:01]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Yeah, I just assumed that it was all related to the late passing of the tax laws for the year by Congress

[18:15:24]

wagnerrp:

i figured it was for all those people foolishly dropping their documents in a mailbox late at night

[18:15:30]

wagnerrp:

and wondering why they were late

[18:15:38]

wagnerrp:

'i got it in the mail on the 15th'

[18:15:47]

kormoc:

I would have silently changed it then

[18:15:58]

iamlindoro:

They do mail on Saturday, so would only have needed the 16h

[18:16:00]

kormoc:

cause they'd do the same thing now, 'I got it in the mail on the 18th!'

[18:16:12]

Beirdo:

hehe, find the ONE late night post office in your area

[18:16:19]

kormoc:

Beirdo, SeaTac

[18:16:31]

Beirdo:

oh god :) Glad I efiled

[18:16:35]

clever:

hmmm, too far back in the paperwork

[18:16:42]

clever:

dads HS dipploma

[18:16:44]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: astronomy?

[18:17:20]

Beirdo:

it would suck to have to go down there just to mail off taxes that I shoulda done long ago :)

[18:17:25]

kormoc:

Beirdo, whoops... They used to be open till 9pm every night but doesn't look like it anymore

[18:17:27]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, hrm?

[18:17:34]

Beirdo:

awww.

[18:17:52]

Beirdo:

well, the other option is an automated postal center

[18:17:58]

kormoc:

it was nice. I lived across the street from them when I first moved here.

[18:18:00]

Beirdo:

as they postmark for you

[18:18:07]

clever:

Beirdo: ok, closer

[18:18:18]

clever:

baby pictures, from when i was just hours old

[18:18:42]

iamlindoro:

It's only a matter of time before he posts the SIN number here

[18:18:55]

clever:

:P

[18:18:56]

Beirdo:

and we'll steal his identity

[18:18:57]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, yeah, but he's protected. No one wants his identity

[18:19:15]

iamlindoro:

Plenty of people are willing to be smelly and useless to get free healthcare

[18:19:33]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ah, it was setec, not seatac

[18:19:35]

iamlindoro:

In fact, plenty of smelly and useless people are DESPERATE for healthcare--so being smelly and useless is no excuse

[18:19:36]

kormoc:

hrm... true enough

[18:19:48]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, ahh

[18:20:14]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, yeah, SeaTac is the area around the Seattle Tacoma International Airport

[18:25:59]

kormoc:

I'm constantly amazed by compression. 116 gigs go in 20.7 come out

[18:26:46]

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[18:31:19]

devinheitmueller:

Two men enter! One man leaves!

[18:31:21]

devinheitmueller:

Sorry, off topic.

[18:32:03]

wagnerrp:

based off those numbers, wouldnt it be 5.6 men enter, 1 man leaves?

[18:32:28]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: fair enough.

[18:32:28]

wagnerrp:

i think Master would count as the 0.6 men

[18:33:42]

iamlindoro:

WHO RULES BARTERTOWN?

[18:34:52]

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[18:37:55]

clever:

Beirdo: ok, medicare paperwork is filled out

[18:40:32]

kormoc:

What is this? America? CHA...

[18:48:30]

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[19:03:20]

Muzer:

if anyone's here from earlier – turns out that card has only a DVB tuner, not an analogue one (/dev/video0 was just for the S-Video port)

[19:04:57]

wagnerrp:

what card?

[19:05:24]

Muzer:

that really old generic one that came with a PC I got for free – pretty sure you were there earlier ;)

[19:06:10]

wagnerrp:

chances are that a digital tuner with analog support is only used for passthrough, not capture

[19:06:28]

skd5aner:

any other mythtv IRC channels where I can do svn->git lookup conversions besides here?

[19:06:35]

skd5aner:

[21000]

[19:06:35]

MythLogBot:

SVN 21000: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/f47e7319

[19:06:45]

wagnerrp:

anywhere mythlogbot can be found

[19:07:00]

skd5aner:

I tried mythtv-commits with no luck there

[19:07:10]

skd5aner:

Need to do a bunch but don't want to flood the popular channels

[19:07:25]

skd5aner:

looks like it works in theming, I'll do it there

[19:08:38]

Muzer:

huh... why has it found conflicting channels? :/

[19:08:57]

Muzer:

either the tuner in that card is absolutely amazing or something odd's going on – I can only receive one transmitter here

[19:09:13]

** Muzer trries again **

[19:12:44]

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[19:14:23]

skd5aner:

Beirdo: does the bot access PMs so I can do lookups without flooding a channel? Just sent a few and didn't get a reply

[19:14:48]

skd5aner:

s/access/accpet

[19:14:52]

skd5aner:

blah – accept

[19:15:23]

sphery:

skd5aner: svn 12345

[19:15:29]

sphery:

can't do [12345]

[19:15:29]

MythLogBot:

SVN 12345: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythweb/commit/18d0b946

[19:15:46]

skd5aner:

ahhhh

[19:15:49]

skd5aner:

yup, that worked – thanks

[19:15:50]

sphery:

(out of channel... sheesh, MythLogBot, getting all pedantic on me)

[19:16:11]

Beirdo:

yes, it does

[19:16:19]

Beirdo:

if you are registered

[19:16:22]

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[19:20:09]

Muzer:

why does it take so long to switch between channels that are on the same mux? Surely that should be instant for something clever like MythTV?

[19:20:41]

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[19:21:12]

sphery:

instant isn't instant when you're watching 2s behind real time

[19:21:21]

sphery:

but it will improve in the future

[19:21:49]

sphery:

(there's some work being done on changing the channel change/tuning algorithm, but it's in a different branch)

[19:22:19]

sphery:

on the bright side, MythTV makes a wonderful Digital Video *Recorder*

[19:22:23]

Muzer:

oh... I didn't realise you watch 2s behind real time... is there any particular reason?

[19:22:25]

skd5aner:

Trying to update the release notes to get rid of the svn references – starting with 0.24-fixes first

[19:22:49]

Muzer:

also, the aspect ratio is wrong, and I'm not quite sure why... I think it thinks my resolution is 4:3, even though it is widescreen...

[19:23:08]

sphery:

Muzer: just saying that there must be a buffer of data... just like when you watch a flash video and the player waits a while until it builds up a buffer

[19:23:10]

Muzer:

(it's letterboxing 16:9 content)

[19:23:28]

sphery:

and buffers differ depending on hardware and several other factors

[19:23:38]

Muzer:

oh, I see what you mean

[19:23:45]

sphery:

so not like we can just play back without a buffer

[19:23:58]

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[19:24:17]

sphery:

it's the same as any commercial DVR (which is why many of my friends' cable-co-provided DVRs take longer to change channel than my MythTV box does)

[19:24:43]

Muzer:

so how can I tell mythTV that I am, in fact, watching on a widescreen monitor? :/

[19:25:07]

wagnerrp:

is your monitor not running a widescreen resolution?

[19:25:49]

Muzer:

it is

[19:26:06]

Muzer:

well, pretty sure it is

[19:26:23]

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[19:26:28]

sphery:

is your monitor not running at widescreen aspect

[19:26:28]

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[19:26:28]

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[19:26:28]

Muzer:

it looks fine on the desktop and I'm very sensitive to wrong aspect ratios

[19:26:29]

Muzer:

it's 1360x768

[19:26:37]

wagnerrp:

well what are you seeing that you think you need to tell mythtv that it is widescreen?

[19:26:49]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Display_Size http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Specifying_DPI_for_NVIDIA_Cards

[19:26:53]

Muzer:

wagnerrp: it's letterboxing 16:9 content, making people look squished

[19:27:03]

sphery:

see DisplaySize page

[19:27:10]

sphery:

you almost definitely have X misconfigured

[19:27:26]

sphery:

and if you're using nvidia card, you may need to see the other page, too

[19:27:36]

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[19:27:54]

Muzer:

I'm using an ATi card

[19:27:55]

sphery:

and if you're using xinerama (or one of its ilk), you'll need to tell mythtv how to handle the xinerama screen

[19:28:01]

Muzer:

and no xinerama

[19:28:13]

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[19:28:15]

sphery:

then see displaysize

[19:28:23]

Muzer:

using Mythbuntu (unfortunately I was too lazy to set up Gentoo oslt :P)

[19:28:28]

Muzer:

iI'll look

[19:28:45]

sphery:

xdpyinfo | grep -B2 resolution

[19:29:30]

Muzer:

ah, DPI looks very wrong to me

[19:30:26]

sphery:

what is it?

[19:30:43]

Muzer:

128x96

[19:30:48]

Muzer:

isn't it normally the same?

[19:30:49]

sphery:

yeah, that's the problem

[19:30:53]

Muzer:

GAH Ubuntu, no Xorg.conf :P

[19:31:03]

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[19:31:15]

sphery:

If you have a 16:9 physical display, and 16:9 resolution, you have square pixels, so X and Y DPI must be the same

[19:31:28]

wagnerrp:

what graphics card do you have?

[19:31:42]

sphery:

yeah, I have no clue what *buntu's preferred approach is for setting X options with their "config-less" X

[19:31:49]

Muzer:

wagnerrp: some ancient ATi one (I mean ancient – AGP)

[19:31:50]

sphery:

so I'll let you figure that part out

[19:32:00]

wagnerrp:

ah, right...ati

[19:32:17]

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[19:32:31]

sphery:

and likely VGA without DDC (maybe because of cables or adaptors or whatever)

[19:32:41]

sphery:

so it's not actually getting valid info from the screen

[19:32:51]

Muzer:

sphery: or more because my TV is not very good :P

[19:32:56]

Muzer:

(using VGA connector on a TV)

[19:33:04]

sphery:

either that or the screen is lying to report a configuration that makes Windows work well

[19:33:52]

Muzer:

well, nothing else on the TV makes sense... there's actually no way to automatically set the aspect for most things on the TV (the DVD player, the DVB tuner) – you have to set it manually per-programme, which sucks :P

[19:33:56]

sphery:

or could even be due to booting when the monitor isn't powered

[19:34:02]

Muzer:

so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the TV's fault

[19:34:09]

sphery:

but at least you know the problem now--so only have to figure out how *buntu wants you to fix it

[19:34:12]

sphery:

:)

[19:34:28]

Muzer:

and some weird shit happens when SCART devices are plugged in – you plug something into the SCART socket, the DVD player powers up even when the TV's off :P

[19:34:41]

justinh:

language again

[19:34:57]

justinh:

family friendly channel & all that. not a frankie boyle gig ;-)

[19:34:58]

Muzer:

oh, and it wouldn't turn on when my netbook was plugged in (:/)

[19:35:10]

justinh:

so a telly with taste eh? ;-)

[19:35:26]

sphery:

heh, maybe the TV has the same feelings about the Atom processor that I have

[19:35:33]

sphery:

(I also boycott Atom)

[19:35:43]

Muzer:

what's wrong with the Atom?

[19:37:24]

sphery:

IMHO, Atom is a power-constrained CPU versus a proper power-efficient CPU. A good processor can idle at or around the same power usage as Atom but has headroom for doing computation (and can do said computations more efficiently because they take significantly less time).

[19:38:15]

sphery:

And, when an Atom system runs at 25–40W idle and 25–40W at load, and you can build a 25W Core i3/i5 system (using cheap desktop parts), the constraint on power usage is completely unnecessary.

[19:38:26]

wagnerrp:

Muzer: basically, power efficient processors are designed from the ground up for low power consumption

[19:38:47]

wagnerrp:

while the Atom was designed by taking an existing processor and ripping out chunks until it hit their desired silicon size

[19:38:54]

sphery:

the 25W Core i system will take use more power at times, but will spend much time idling and may actually use less power on average

[19:40:16]

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[19:40:21]

sphery:

and then there's systems like the Mac Mini, that use Core 2 Duo Mobile processor and result in a /system/ idle power usage of 10W, and can easily average 13–16W power usage over weeks of runtime. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3468

[19:41:55]

sphery:

and, as mentioned by wagnerrp, this means that Atom is basically a marketing scheme to sell cheap silicon for more than its worth (i.e. processor costs significantly less to build than Core i/Mobile Core whatever) but can sell with a much larger markup because they slapped the word Green on it :)

[19:43:55]

** skd5aner is greatful for the svn->git lookup tool **

[19:44:08]

skd5aner:

got -fixes release notes updated

[19:44:18]

skd5aner:

Sometimes, I wonder if it's worth it and if people really read this thing anyway for fixes – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24-fixes

[19:45:30]

iamlindoro:

people definitely read it

[19:45:41]

iamlindoro:

I dunno about for fixes, but the release notes themselves are read, anyway

[19:46:00]

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[19:46:49]

wagnerrp:

the access count at the bottom show that well enough

[19:47:22]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: heh – sometimes I wonder if out of the 2548 times it's been accessed that I was 1500 of those and google was another 1000 ;)

[19:49:18]

skd5aner:

I like the -fixes because you can easily see what's been committed between dates/versions very easily – and by category

[19:49:51]

skd5aner:

having live tv issues? look at your last version, and see if any Video Playback or Live TV things have been committed since – very useful to easily see if something has been resolved since last update

[19:50:06]

wagnerrp:

for some reason, im thinking bots are ignored for that count

[19:50:29]

skd5aner:

which is why I put *everything* committed to a -fixes branch in any reposiitory (with the exception of some of the packing stuff) on there

[19:51:36]

Muzer:

what is the "Fill" option? it was on Full which was making the video too big for the window and text look ugly... I just turned it Off and it' fine. I'm just wondering what it's supposed to be for...

[19:54:23]

sphery:

sounds like you set an aspect/fill override to try to work around your misconfigured X

[19:54:26]

sphery:

fix X

[19:54:30]

sphery:

/then/ turn off all overrides

[19:55:26]

sphery:

specifically "Video aspect override" and "Zoom" settings in TV Playback

[19:55:48]

sphery:

if you have misconfigured X and you use overrides, it will fix some video and break others

[19:55:54]

sphery:

only way to make it all work is to configure X properly

[19:56:34]

Muzer:

I think I have now, I've managed to set DPI to square pixels

[19:56:39]

sphery:

cool

[19:56:50]

Muzer:

I've no idea what the fill was set to "Full" for though, I'm just wondering what actually that means...

[19:56:57]

sphery:

so go into TV Playback settings and make sure you don't have any "Video aspect override" and "Zoom" specified

[19:57:05]

Muzer:

I don't

[19:58:00]

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[20:20:56]

Muzer:

how does remote control stuff work? It seems to just map buttons on the remote to keyboard keys – but not all of them are actually mapped. I'm slightly confused. Is this Ubuntu or MythTV that handles this?

[20:21:05]

skd5aner:

LIRC

[20:25:25]

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[20:26:44]

Muzer:

hmm

[20:27:27]

Muzer:

this is odd... is there any way to have the channel change buttons actually change the channel? The LIRC config maps them to up/down like the cursor buttons, but I can't actually find anything better to map them to...

[20:27:37]

Muzer:

(as in, Ch+ and Ch-)

[20:29:55]

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[20:52:29]

skd5aner:

Muzer: there is "CHANNELDOWN" and "CHANNELUP" keybindings – they default to "Up" and "Down" keys

[20:52:43]

skd5aner:

s/is/are

[20:52:46]

Muzer:

skd5aner: but those don't actually change the channel...

[20:53:07]

skd5aner:

depends on you settings, I believe

[20:53:11]

Muzer:

they just bring up a box that allows you to change the channel

[20:53:12]

Muzer:

ah

[20:53:30]

skd5aner:

typically – you woudn't want them to, you'd want to "Browse" the channels on the OSD and then hit enter when you want to switch to one

[20:53:39]

Muzer:

though having said that, judging by how slow this card is, it's probably a good thing it doesn't actually change the channel ;)

[20:53:44]

skd5aner:

or use the EPG and navigate up and down and hit enter to select one

[20:53:45]

Muzer:

hmm

[20:53:49]

skd5aner:

Muzer: exactly :)

[20:54:11]

skd5aner:

hitting up, waiting 2–10 seconds, then the channel tunes, repeat – that would be miserable

[20:54:50]

Muzer:

another thing – MHEG seems to only work where you have to actively do something to get MHEG (eg press red/text) – on channels that default to showing MHEG screens, they don't... is there a way to force them to be displayed, or is this some limitation?

[20:55:18]

skd5aner:

No clue – I'm in an area where there's no such thing

[20:57:51]

Muzer:

on a random note – I couldn't find a way to do this, but I'm wondering if it's possible for a DVB card to give MythTV the PIDs for audio and video streams, and create a channel out of that... I think I saw something that seemed like it might allow you to do it but I couldn't really get it to work

[21:01:58]

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[21:03:59]

justinh:

Muzer: nope

[21:04:21]

justinh:

Muzer: way back in mythtv 0.16 there was no dynamic PID detection

[21:04:25]

justinh:

it was possible then

[21:04:33]

justinh:

stop reading ancient blogs :-)

[21:05:21]

Muzer:

I'm not ;)

[21:05:30]

Muzer:

I can just see a situation in which it would be useful

[21:06:19]

justinh:

like when?

[21:06:33]

justinh:

like watching TV and listening to DVB radio?

[21:06:47]

Muzer:

OK, 2 uses ;)

[21:07:03]

justinh:

very edgy.. and silly (IMHO) use cases

[21:07:08]

Muzer:

there's that, and also if a channel hides their video streams behind an MHEG frontend

[21:07:14]

justinh:

oh that's easy

[21:07:23]

justinh:

you just disable interactive TV on the frontend

[21:07:43]

Muzer:

no, that won't work if the MHEG frontend actually directs the receiver to switch to the correct video streams

[21:07:51]

Muzer:

(which is the case on a few channels here)

[21:07:53]

justinh:

oh yes it will

[21:08:02]

justinh:

I know the one you mean, and it will

[21:08:10]

Muzer:

how? :/

[21:08:23]

justinh:

I dunno, it just does

[21:08:33]

Muzer:

I'll give it a go

[21:08:40]

Muzer:

we may be thinking of different ones ;)

[21:08:44]

justinh:

probably because myth looks for the streams if they aren't marked?

[21:09:22]

Muzer:

nope, doesn't work

[21:09:23]

justinh:

if you mean the 'filth' channel where you ring a premium rate number & they tell you a PIN to enter to see the channel..

[21:09:29]

Muzer:

nah, I'm thinking of TView

[21:09:33]

Muzer:

launched a few days ago

[21:09:47]

justinh:

never heard of it

[21:09:50]

Muzer:

on Big Deal's old channel (it's still not been renamed)

[21:09:54]

justinh:

probably a waste of time anyway :)

[21:09:55]

Muzer:

pay-per-view film service

[21:10:00]

justinh:

eew

[21:10:24]

Muzer:

you phone them up, they send a code to the box over-the-air which interacts with their MHEG software and switches the audio and video PIDs

[21:10:42]

justinh:

this sort of thing should NOT BE ALLOWED

[21:10:49]

justinh:

it's FREE VIEW

[21:11:03]

Muzer:

I agree, which is why I want something to tune PIDs manually ;)

[21:11:23]

Muzer:

as turning off MHEG doesn't work...

[21:11:30]

Muzer:

GAH, WHY does fill keep turning itself back on?

[21:11:33]

Muzer:

this is really irritating me now

[21:11:41]

Muzer:

it's done it 3 times now

[21:14:43]

iamlindoro:

because you have it set in the tv playback settings, meaning it's your default

[21:16:28]

Muzer:

ah, zoom was set to auto detect – obviously the auto detection isn't very good ;)

[21:16:46]

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[21:16:50]

justinh:

Muzer: anyway, working around such obsfurcation could be seen in a certain light as umm... contravening DRM, even if it *is* only basic noddy crap

[21:17:22]

Muzer:

it's being broadcast already, all I'm doing is pulling it out of the air ;)

[21:17:32]

justinh:

and besides.. *look* at the programming lineup on their website.. sheesh

[21:17:41]

Muzer:

heh

[21:17:44]

Muzer:

it might get good, though ;)

[21:17:52]

justinh:

it might also die on its ass

[21:17:58]

Muzer:

though TBH, I don't think i even need to do this

[21:18:02]

justinh:

please please please please please please

[21:18:17]

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[21:18:17]

Muzer:

the current state is "if you hit random buttons on your remote on a normal Freeview box, quite a lot of the time you'll be allowed to see the film"

[21:18:37]

justinh:

lol

[21:18:48]

Muzer:

you CAN add a channel if you know the PIDs

[21:18:51]

Muzer:

but you have to edit the SQL directly :P

[21:18:59]

justinh:

but myth very definitely won't let you do that

[21:19:13]

justinh:

it looks in the DVB info tables.. NIT & all that

[21:19:22]

Muzer:

won't let me do what? Edit the SQL directly?

[21:19:32]

Muzer:

hmm...

[21:19:35]

Muzer:

I'll give it a try anyway

[21:19:44]

justinh:

you can't enter the PIDs yourself. ANYWHERE

[21:19:55]

Muzer:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Adding_Digital_Cab . . . _USA/Canada) says you can

[21:20:59]

Muzer:

oh wait

[21:21:01]

Muzer:

maybe I'm going crazy

[21:21:26]

Muzer:

yeah, I am :P

[21:21:53]

justinh:

yes you are

[21:22:17]

justinh:

drunk, with the prospect of being able to watch & record totally lame straight-to-DVD movies

[21:22:48]

Muzer:

heh

[21:23:24]

Muzer:

someone else is having the same, er, problem as I was: http://www.mythtvtalk.com/mythtv-dvb-pid-chan . . . ttings-4354/

[21:24:04]

justinh:

how many more times – you CANNOT assign PIDs manually

[21:24:09]

iamlindoro:

oh look, it's our favorite person

[21:24:21]

iamlindoro:

one more reason to hate that guy

[21:24:22]

sphery:

justinh: you sound exactly like that justinh guy on the thread

[21:24:23]

justinh:

back in the day, we could.. but then it was discovered they changed on the fly

[21:25:17]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah, seems he doesn't just give MythTV users a bad name--making them all look like service thieves--in this channel

[21:25:43]

sphery:

(that he being the other responder in the thread--not justinh )

[21:25:50]

iamlindoro:

right

[21:25:56]

Muzer:

lots of people seem to be asking it in other channels – it would be nice if there was a way to override auto PID detection ;)

[21:26:03]

Muzer:

s/channels/forums/

[21:26:05]

Muzer:

I'm tired :P

[21:26:24]

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[21:26:43]

iamlindoro:

There's no compelling reason to break the DVB spec

[21:26:58]

iamlindoro:

We do things as they're intended, there's absolutely no valid reason for inserting PIDs manually

[21:27:12]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[21:27:16]

justinh:

you'd be disappointed to learn that even if you could, every time they assign new PIDs – which I guess would be at boundaries of movie showings.. you'd have to stop mythbackend, run mythtv-setup, change the PIDs, start mythbackend again...

[21:27:19]

** iamlindoro waits patiently **

[21:27:31]

justinh:

bit of a PITA really

[21:27:58]

sphery:

heh, and people talk about slow program/channel transitions now

[21:30:06]

justinh:

heh I'm impressed ethics-gradient.net is still up

[21:31:23]

justinh:

that site was one of my lifelines, back in the day

[21:31:41]

justinh:

that & the gentoo wiki :D

[21:33:55]

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[21:36:13]

justinh:

wow. 2333 posts, plus 212.. how many cups of ubuntu would that be? ;-)

[21:37:36]

Muzer:

Since one of my wifi cards didn't appear to be good enough, I'm trying another one, but it uses some horribly obscure chipset that Ubuntu doesn't come with drivers for. Sigh...

[21:38:16]

Muzer:

(but drivers DO exist)

[21:38:46]

Muzer:

oh, and the sourceforge wiki pages for the driver don't appear to work properly :P

[21:39:04]

justinh:

drivers hosted on SF eh, oh dear

[21:39:46]

justinh:

hmmm.. seems the forum has lost my very first posts.. I was going to take a quick walk down memory lane

[21:39:52]

Muzer:

http://acx100.sourceforge.net <-- is what I need :/

[21:40:12]

justinh:

anyway, I'm a classic case of community poisoning :D

[21:40:57]

Muzer:

oh wait, if I'm not mistaken, this card is B-only... that'll make it even worse than the other one, then (unless the other one is faulty, of course)

[21:41:27]

Muzer:

how the hell does my netbook get a signal in here but no wifi cards seem to? :/

[21:41:42]

justinh:

because the wifi cards are um... less able? ;-)

[21:42:27]

justinh:

with my laptop I can be sitting in the same room as the router and not get a sustained xfer rate of over 32KB/sec in linux – and yet same hardware on windows.. sweet

[21:42:44]

justinh:

signal strength is similarly sucky in linux on this hardware too

[21:43:18]

Muzer:

:/

[21:46:59]

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[21:57:30]

Muzer:

hmm

[22:06:01]

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[22:09:34]

Muzer:

hmm

[22:09:38]

Muzer:

I think that wifi card is faulty

[22:09:41]

Muzer:

it appears to be working fine now

[22:09:46]

Muzer:

but I think it stops working randomly

[22:09:55]

Muzer:

I remember last time I used it...

[22:10:21]

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[22:10:49]

Muzer:

I keep seeing references to a mythtv web browser, and other web-related things, but I can't figure out how to get into them... am I just being thick?

[22:12:39]

skd5aner:

mythweb

[22:12:39]

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[22:12:43]

skd5aner:

it's a plugin

[22:12:49]

Muzer:

yeah, that was installed... do I have to enable it somehow?

[22:12:59]

skd5aner:

there's also mythbrowser, which is a browser on the frontend

[22:13:52]

skd5aner:

https://github.com/MythTV/mythweb/blob/c6591a . . . 8f50/INSTALL

[22:13:55]

skd5aner:

read that

[22:14:20]

skd5aner:

if you're using mythbuntu – read this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythWeb

[22:14:31]

Muzer:

ah, thanks

[22:15:44]

Muzer:

ah, mythweb is the web interface

[22:15:51]

Muzer:

I was referring to mythbrowser, yeahh

[22:15:56]

Muzer:

that wasn't installed – it is now ;

[22:15:57]

Muzer:

;)#

[22:15:59]

skd5aner:

yes, for managing recordings among other things

[22:16:19]

skd5aner:

I rarely use mythbrowser – the user experience, imho, sucks

[22:16:29]

** skd5aner ducks and hides **

[22:18:14]

Muzer:

I can't figure out how to use it :P

[22:18:30]

Muzer:

and you can't just enter arbitrary URLs – you have to go to a bookmark first?

[22:18:34]

Muzer:

this seems horrid :P

[22:18:39]

skd5aner:

keyboard and mouse are required, but there's focus issues, it's just – not really that good

[22:18:55]

Muzer:

AH, you use a mouse

[22:19:02]

Muzer:

I was trying to use the remote/keyboard

[22:19:03]

Muzer:

heh

[22:19:07]

skd5aner:

well – I shouldn't say "required"

[22:19:17]

skd5aner:

it's just not very remote friendly

[22:19:24]

skd5aner:

nor will it probably ever be

[22:19:31]

Muzer:

well

[22:19:37]

Muzer:

the text box on Google doesn't appear to work :P

[22:20:15]

skd5aner:

I encourage you not to judge mythtv based on "mythbrowser" and leave the web browsing for devices and browsers that were designed to do that

[22:20:16]

sphery:

CSI: Miami. Sponsored by Windows 7.

[22:20:22]

Muzer:

heh

[22:20:23]

Muzer:

yeah

[22:20:25]

skd5aner:

there's a reason why Microsoft WebTV never took off

[22:20:29]

sphery:

that explains so much. Now I know how they enhance those photos... "To the cloud!"

[22:20:50]

Muzer:

does mythtv have plugins for British IPTV services like iPlayer, etc.?

[22:21:00]

skd5aner:

MythNetvision

[22:21:10]

skd5aner:

works good in 0.24, bbc iplayer included

[22:21:20]

skd5aner:

will work even better in 0.25 when it's released

[22:21:38]

skd5aner:

it also works best with a keyboard, or at least a mouse

[22:21:55]

skd5aner:

in 0.25, several of the sources can be controlled via remote instead of keyboard/mouse

[22:22:02]

Muzer:

where do you configure mythnetvision?

[22:22:29]

skd5aner:

and, I wouldn't call it an "IPTV" player – it plays items that are available on the web

[22:22:35]

Muzer:

that's what I meant :P

[22:22:38]

skd5aner:

MythTV does have true IPTV tuners

[22:22:46]

skd5aner:

so, that's why I'm distinguishing between the two

[22:23:18]

skd5aner:

!url lmgtfy mythnetvision

[22:23:18]

MythLogBot:

lmgtfy: http://lmgtfy.com?q=mythnetvision

[22:23:45]

skd5aner:

are you running mythbuntu?

[22:23:46]

Muzer:

gah

[22:23:47]

Muzer:

I hate my TV

[22:23:49]

Muzer:

skd5aner: yeah

[22:23:51]

Muzer:

I've got it installed

[22:23:59]

Muzer:

just can't figure out how to change the list of services

[22:24:04]

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[22:24:21]

skd5aner:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision

[22:24:22]

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[22:24:53]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: can I remove the "beta" warning on the MNV wiki page?

[22:25:03]

Muzer:

ah, you do it in the browse menu

[22:25:07]

Muzer:

I was trying to do it from the search menu

[22:25:16]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I'm pretty sure you removed the beta lable prior to 0.24 correct?

[22:25:26]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, yes, and yes

[22:26:18]

Muzer:

huh

[22:26:20]

Muzer:

I'm confused by that

[22:26:32]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: do you know if RDV is still planning on contributing? I've not seen him around these parts in months.

[22:26:37]

skd5aner:

!seen RDV_Linux

[22:26:37]

MythLogBot:

RDV_Linux was last seen 64 days 12 hours 50 minutes 59 seconds ago

[22:26:49]

iamlindoro:

I would presume he is not

[22:26:55]

Muzer:

does Mythbuntu have an old version of MythTV or something? :/

[22:27:00]

Muzer:

actually that's quite a possibility

[22:27:01]

skd5aner:

aww... too bad for all of us :(

[22:27:06]

Muzer:

would explain a lot

[22:27:20]

skd5aner:

Muzer: mythfrontend --version on the cli

[22:27:31]

skd5aner:

post the output in a pastebin

[22:27:41]

Muzer:

0.23

[22:27:41]

Muzer:

aha

[22:27:42]

Muzer:

that's why

[22:27:55]

Muzer:

I want 0.24... I suppose I'll have to wait a few days until whenever 11.04 is released

[22:28:07]

skd5aner:

well, you could upgrade to 10.10

[22:28:11]

Muzer:

I have 10.10

[22:28:12]

skd5aner:

and get 0.24 fixes

[22:28:18]

skd5aner:

well, you can still ugprade to fixes

[22:28:22]

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[22:28:32]

skd5aner:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds

[22:29:01]

skd5aner:

er, forgot they changed URLs – use this one, it's preferred – http://www.mythbuntu.org/repos

[22:29:02]

Muzer:

how laggy are mythbuntu releases compared to main ubuntu releases?

[22:29:44]

skd5aner:

Muzer: you should leverage that process documented there, and everytime you update you'll get a copy of the latest version of -fixes

[22:30:15]

Muzer:

will do!

[22:30:39]

skd5aner:

make sure you use 0.24-fixes

[22:30:43]

Muzer:

hmm

[22:30:45]

skd5aner:

and not 0.25 or antyhign like that

[22:30:52]

Muzer:

yeah

[22:31:01]

Muzer:

so will that essentially give me 0.24?

[22:32:23]

skd5aner:

ttbomk

[22:32:56]

skd5aner:

and actually – it'll give you 0.24-fixes (latest release)

[22:33:14]

skd5aner:

which has 257 changes applied to it since 0.24 was released

[22:33:20]

Muzer:

ah

[22:33:26]

skd5aner:

all wonderfully documented here – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24-fixes

[22:33:31]

Muzer:

so it's 0.24 plus extra bugfixes

[22:33:32]

Muzer:

sounds good

[22:33:37]

skd5aner:

exactly

[22:34:13]

Muzer:

a LOT (and I mean a lot) of text strings appear to be cut off in most interfaces, with no apparent way of reading them... I'm wondering what I can do about this

[22:34:39]

Muzer:

(the current one I'm looking at is "Updating Site Maps. This could..." – but a significant number of text strings in other places are cut off like this)

[22:34:48]

Muzer:

even "Please wait" is shortened to "Please w..." or something

[22:36:02]

skd5aner:

Muzer: see what happens after you upgrade

[22:36:14]

Muzer:

OK

[22:36:19]

skd5aner:

lots of mythui and theme changes between 0.23 and 0.24

[22:36:25]

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[22:37:31]

mycoDA:

actually they seemed to remove the 'fix' for that issue in 0.24

[22:37:50]

mycoDA:

you used to ba eblt to give a text scaling % which is gone

[22:40:13]

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[22:40:23]

sphery:

Muzer: you have a square pixel aspect configured, now? using non-square pixels can cause text to not fit properly

[22:40:34]

sphery:

Muzer: also, if you don't have installed the fonts that the theme uses, it will likely result in text not fitting--check frontend logs for font errors--they should be easy to spot

[22:40:40]

sphery:

and it will tell you what font you need

[22:40:43]

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[22:40:49]

Muzer:

yeah, square pixels now

[22:41:07]

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[22:41:08]

Muzer:

though I haven't figured out how to make it persistent, I currently have to run an xrandr command every startup :P

[22:41:11]

Muzer:

it's very irritating :P

[22:41:24]

Muzer:

I tried to put it in the launch script for the desktop manager but it isn't working for some reason

[22:41:27]

Muzer:

nor is .xprofile

[22:41:35]

Muzer:

I'll have to find another place to put it

[22:41:53]

sphery:

and when you do the xdpyinfo command, it shows a proper DPI setting?

[22:42:20]

Muzer:

yeah

[22:42:28]

Muzer:

96x96

[22:42:31]

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[22:42:35]

sphery:

check fonts, then

[22:42:49]

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[22:42:52]

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[22:43:15]

Muzer:

it's the default mythbuntu theme so I would have expected it to work

[22:43:18]

Muzer:

but I'll check

[22:43:28]

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[22:43:34]

eruditehermit:

hello

[22:44:00]

eruditehermit:

wagnerrp, you about?

[22:44:46]

Muzer:

how long does "Updating Site Maps" usually take? It only has, like, 4 services..

[22:44:49]

Muzer:

*5

[22:45:04]

skd5aner:

a little white I believe

[22:45:06]

sphery:

depends on which sites you have enabled--some are fast and some take a long time

[22:45:11]

skd5aner:

Muzer – have you arleady upgraded?

[22:45:19]

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[22:45:19]

Muzer:

skd5aner: no, I'm waiting for that to finish first

[22:45:25]

skd5aner:

ah

[22:45:29]

Muzer:

wouldn't want to kill the backend when the frontend's going ;)

[22:45:48]

Muzer:

I see no lights flashing on the network card... is there normally lots of network usage during that process?

[22:50:17]

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[22:51:51]

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[22:59:38]

iamlindoro:

For the love of god, what is wrong with users

[22:59:55]

iamlindoro:

They won't be satisfied until we're paralyzed with fear of closing their BS tickets

[23:00:23]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[23:01:36]

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[23:03:19]

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[23:03:19]

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[23:03:20]

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[23:04:44]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: weird how it happened back to back to back to back to back

[23:04:44]

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[23:05:00]

iamlindoro:

seriously, something about today

[23:05:15]

iamlindoro:

And if we're being honest, I really think I was restrained in my language

[23:05:28]

skd5aner:

yea, pretty much boilerplate

[23:05:50]

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[23:07:10]

iamlindoro:

PS, for fantasy fans, Game of Thrones on HBO last night was pretty awesome... worth a record if you get premiums

[23:07:11]

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[23:07:12]

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[23:19:53]

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[23:21:39]

sphery:

Heh, Sorry, you must have the Flash Player installed to access HBO.com\nThe browser you are using is not recommended\nIt appears you are currently using Namoroka 3.6.13 which is not fully supported by this site. To optimize your viewing experience, please view HBO.com in one of the following browsers: Firefox 3.0+

[23:22:11]

iamlindoro:

stop being such a Namoroka

[23:22:18]

sphery:

so, let's see... "Flash site, not web site", check. "Broken browser detection", check.

[23:22:20]

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[23:22:31]

sphery:

Guess I don't get to see what Game of Thrones is about

[23:23:05]

sphery:

the worst part of Web 2.0 garbage is that it's "legitimizing" browser detection--and /still/ doesn't do it right

[23:23:27]

sphery:

The web was such a wonderful place, until people started using it

[23:24:17]

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[23:24:21]

Muzer:

huh – the iPlayer plugin seems pretty hacky at the moment

[23:24:25]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: you need to slap those repeat ticket guys even harder :)

[23:24:39]

Muzer:

doesn't allow searching through the interface – you must edit an XML file :/

[23:24:43]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't

[23:24:53]

Beirdo:

hehe, I hear ya there

[23:25:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: ideally someone else would do the slapping (so it doesn't seem a one-man fight)

[23:25:02]

Beirdo:

seems to be a rash of them lately

[23:25:11]

Muzer:

is there a chance of that being improved?

[23:25:13]

Beirdo:

oooh, good point. you're up next :)

[23:25:14]

sphery:

but, yeah, way too much

[23:25:34]

Beirdo:

batter up.... swing, batter....

[23:26:09]

sphery:

I have a feeling that too many GNU/Linux users are getting the improper impression that adding hundreds of comments to a bug report doesn't affect the ability of the developer to find useful information in there

[23:26:24]

sphery:

and that bug reports are their place to vent

[23:26:52]

Beirdo:

well, if their venting looks like a bug report, I don't mind so much :0

[23:26:58]

sphery:

but, you know, I once heard a story about a GNU/Linux user who bought a TV capture card in 2006 and "they" still haven't made any drivers for it

[23:27:11]

sphery:

slacking developers

[23:27:20]

Beirdo:

yeah, no kidding

[23:27:22]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:27:28]

sphery:

yeah, if there's something useful in the venting, it's ok

[23:27:46]

mycoDA:

fellas – can you pass your experienced eyes over this mess http://pastebin.com/pAQeKE90

[23:28:00]

Beirdo:

but opening 2 tickets to whine about tickets getting locked... is at LEAST 1 ticket too many

[23:28:31]

mycoDA:

"QPainter::begin: Paint device returned engine == 0, type: 3" happening extremely rapidly

[23:29:07]

mycoDA:

appears to be in watch recordings menu (didnt show in the log til i opened that, then what you see there is a couple of seconds before i exited again)

[23:29:19]

sphery:

heh, yeah, at least--I'd say more like 2 too many

[23:29:22]

sphery:

there's a list for a reason

[23:29:38]

Beirdo:

yeah.

[23:29:50]

mycoDA:

please lol

[23:30:30]

Beirdo:

mycoDA: did you change something and it started doing this?

[23:30:51]

mycoDA:

probably – but i have no idea what

[23:31:28]

sphery:

-fixes or unstable?

[23:32:00]

mycoDA:

fixes

[23:32:12]

mycoDA:

wasnt happening a month ago – just checked my rotated logs

[23:32:56]

Beirdo:

OK, in your rotated logs, check if you were running the same version of mythtv, the same version of your nvidia card drivers, etc

[23:33:59]

mycoDA:

ok, that was back in .22

[23:34:29]

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[23:35:58]

mycoDA:

grrrrr – massive period i must have been starting form command line

[23:37:04]

mycoDA:

pretty much everythign has changed between the 2

[23:37:08]

mycoDA:

well, a lot

[23:37:18]

mycoDA:

jaunty to lucid

[23:38:27]

sphery:

mycoDA: and are you using OpenGL or Qt painter? (sounds like Qt)

[23:38:32]

sphery:

did you try the other?

[23:38:47]

mycoDA:

gl i think

[23:38:49]

sphery:

are you sure your video drivers are properly installed and properly working (even for OpenGL)

[23:39:03]

sphery:

check the log file... should say, "Using the <whatever> painter"

[23:39:44]

mycoDA:

2011-04–19 09:20:32.840 Using the OpenGL painter

[23:39:52]

mycoDA:

in that pastebin

[23:40:11]

mycoDA:

how would i check they are 'properly installed' ?

[23:41:11]

mycoDA:

is ubuntu – i have to rely on their package in 10.04

[23:41:37]

sphery:

that's the hard part... don't know of a good way to know for sure

[23:42:17]

mycoDA:

have seen no issue with them, nvidia settings all works, vdpau is gorgeous across myth and mplayer

[23:43:05]

mycoDA:

will try changing painter, but qt is slowwwwww

[23:43:34]

wagnerrp:

anyone know what eruditehermit might have wanted?

[23:44:37]

sphery:

more books to study?

[23:44:48]

sphery:

probably didn't want to leave home to get them...

[23:45:35]

sphery:

mycoDA: sounds like your drivers are fine, then

[23:45:40]

sphery:

not sure what might be causing it

[23:56:03]

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[23:56:46]

co_pgn_isep:

any gay here!!

[23:56:51]

mycoDA:

changed painter to qt, still there

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co_pgn_isep (co_pgn_isep!gwyael@app4.chatmosphere.org) has left #mythtv-users ()

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