MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (167):

CiaranG, mike|2, MythLogBot, bobgill, MavT, spirit3, hadees, k-man, kenni, lotia, markk, tictric, knightr, ubIx_, zand, benc_, ghoti, jya, TheMaverick`, xand, dewman, earthnative, jcarlos, Technophil, tris, anykey_, CyberKnet, gregL, grumpydevil, deathadder, frankbean, mzb, ruskie, _abbenormal, Anduin, deegan, jarle, oobe, ttelford, dansushi, dlblog, Heliwr, jamesd2, mycoDA, tomaw, J-e-f-f-A, russell5, RyeBrye, sailerboy, Captain_Murdoch, EvilBob, floppyears, hobiga, jams_, jbrett, sphery, Beirdo, dagar_, ikevin, josh__, sid3windr, blizzard_, kc, LabMonkey, Scopeuk-AFK, sunkan, toorima, Unhelpful, Computer_Czar, GadgetWisdomGuru, jamiem, M0nk3Ee_, mhentges, thefRont, Azelphur, BLZbubba, chainsawbike, ikonia, jpabq-, jstenback, _charly_, aloril, Floppe, Gumby_, jpabq, squidly, waxhead, adante, cesman, Cougar, Gibby, skd5aner, Wicked, _justdave, ComradeHaz`, grantm, Igneous, KaZeR, MissionCritical, Roedy, Dave123, Gumby, JEDIDIAH__, Number6, pigeon, Shadow__X, tank-man, Cardoe, dmz, mag0o, MilkBoy, simcop2387, cafuego, jannau, karl370, Metoer, purserj, staylo, weta, brfransen, castlec1, d0netsFN, GreyFoxx, Sulx, wagnerrp, ChanServ, iamlindoro, johnf1911, justpaul, kabtoffe, bhaak, hackman, keith4, kurre, Lunar_Lamp, sutula, wenko, antgel, justinh, Patina, quicksilver, tomimo_, trumee, jduggan, kisak, kloeri, NRGizeR, rhpot1991, Seeker`, tgm4883, felipe`, peterpops, uW, xilet, KaZeR_W, kleinlappeis, Diverdude, kwmonroe, KraMer, Twiggy2cents, clever_, MMlosh, NewBuntu81, tmkt, GrahamIRC, ekristen, blinki
Tuesday, April 12th, 2011, 00:04 UTC
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[00:29:18] wagnerrp: sphery: is there a reason the commandlineparser uses primarily c/c++ calls
[00:29:21] wagnerrp: rather than qt calls?
[00:29:39] wagnerrp: do a lot of those calls not work before the application is started?
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[01:17:24] skd5aner: hmmmm – http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/hack-u . . . -any-device/
[01:18:58] J-e-f-f-A: Humm.. now to reconcile which drive "ata8" is...
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[01:22:02] mycoDA: (9:38:42 AM) wagnerrp: why do users think they can dig stuff out of the trash to run mythtv on? <<< probably because a lot of people have promoted linux for this over time, and people are too daft to get the difference between one use and the next, hence thinking that the enitre web should be able to be served froma pentium 2 if only bit ran linux
[01:22:36] wagnerrp: well... except for half the web DOES run linux
[01:22:41] wagnerrp: and the tivo does not
[01:22:45] mycoDA: i know that :P
[01:23:05] mycoDA: is part of the irony :P
[01:24:57] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... Looks like it's the 500GB drive from my LinkStation NAS – that I removed from the NAS because it was in a boot loop, and used as a 'standard' HDD instead. ;-)
[01:26:05] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... 360GB of recordings to move off of there to somewhere else...
[01:26:25] mycoDA: always keep a sata free ;) lol
[01:27:14] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Hehehe... All 8 are used right now... even a 9th via a Pata->Sata adapter (for the DVD-RW)... might have to settle for USB for the transfer... DOH!
[01:27:15] wagnerrp: ive got a drawer full of my old array for such usage
[01:27:51] mycoDA: nnooooooooooooooooooooooo not USB2 for 360G!!!!!
[01:28:25] mycoDA: (reminds me i should get a usb3 to sata2 adaptor lol)
[01:28:42] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Hehe... Well, it's just recordings I converted to 'videos'... so it'll take all night, but I don't care. ;-)
[01:28:54] mycoDA: fair one
[01:29:03] wagnerrp: do you have a usb3 host adapter?
[01:29:04] mycoDA: no Optical drive you can disconnect?
[01:29:21] mycoDA: on a couple of my machines yeah
[01:29:31] mycoDA: not pcie tho
[01:29:42] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... Yeah, I could disconnect the DVD-RW. ;-) That would be MUCH faster.... ;-)
[01:30:38] J-e-f-f-A: OOh, I know what I could do.... Export each video to a DVD with MythArchive, then re-import them. That would only take... FOREVER! ;-) hehehehe
[01:31:02] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: but now youre thinking like a mythtv user
[01:31:15] J-e-f-f-A: ;-)
[01:33:23] sphery: wagnerrp: not sure why it was done that way
[01:36:25] mycoDA: have to say i adore lvm2 for the pvmove command
[01:39:28] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... I wounder if I can hot-swap a SATA device that's connected to a PATA port via a PATA<->SATA adapter... Probably, since the SATA side is what's getting swapped, not the PATA side... Hummm.
[01:39:49] mycoDA: prolly not
[01:40:01] mycoDA: pata has no way to report the swap to the OS
[01:40:16] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Well, right. but by telling the OS to re-scan it.... ;-)
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[01:41:00] mycoDA: might work
[01:41:25] mycoDA: has nagging feeling there is a gotcha
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[01:47:25] J-e-f-f-A: heh... ;-) didn't work – it 're-detected' it as a DVD-RW. ;-) So the device info must be 'cached' on the sata<->IDE adapter chip. Oh well, a re-boot will clear that up.
[01:49:49] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: I *tried* to use a PCIe SATA controller to expand the number of drives, but my MB didn't like that idea, so I ended up just running with the built-in 8 stat ports + an IDE->SATA adapter...
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[01:50:54] J-e-f-f-A: Although I did just acquire an old server from work that has a shiny PCIe-x8 SAS raid controller... hummm....
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[01:59:48] mycoDA: j-e-f-f-a there is a gotcha with some of the dell x8 controllers inparticular, need to cover a couple of tracks on the edge connector on intel chipset boards
[02:02:44] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Yeah I was reading that. ;-) But I'm an AMD guy. ;-) My current MB is ATI/AMD – looking some more...
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[02:04:12] mycoDA: kinda agnostic when it comes to cpu – best chip for the job, tho i do have a soft spot for amd, i like to stay the hell away from their GPUs
[02:10:43] J-e-f-f-A: me too.
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[02:15:30] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Do you think I can get a frontend working on my latest computer? Here's a pic: http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/293916/sn/183641 . . . 5.25_3.5.jpg
[02:17:32] jamesd2: J-e-f-f-A, sorry we only support this system http://oldcomputers.net/ts1000.html
[02:18:22] J-e-f-f-A: jamesd2: That's awesome, because I have one of those too! ;-) (no, really!)
[02:18:24] J-e-f-f-A: ;-)
[02:19:22] jamesd2: i hear they are making great strives in performance, they have gotten commercial flagging a 30 minute show, down to just a year and 1/2 on the timex.
[02:19:58] J-e-f-f-A: jamesd2: Hehehe... ;-) Yeah, a tad bit slower than my x4 640 in my backend now. ;-) hehehehe
[02:21:06] BLZbubba: does mythtv still require the hd homerun to auto detect?
[02:21:35] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: eh?
[02:21:48] BLZbubba: my hd homerun gets an ip address with dhcp
[02:22:02] BLZbubba: and that was broken for awhile, i could only use 1 tuner
[02:22:04] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: Define it in myth by the serail#, not ip.
[02:22:21] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: Then no matter what Ip it gets, it works...
[02:22:23] BLZbubba: i would rather not, if possible
[02:23:05] J-e-f-f-A: Why not?
[02:24:42] BLZbubba: reconfiguring to allow broadcasting will be painful
[02:24:45] J-e-f-f-A: It's the "Device ID" on the bottom of the unit. I have 2 dual-tuner HDHR's, and have had ZERO issues with them since day one, defined with the device ID... (
[02:24:45] BLZbubba: i take it the bug is still there
[02:25:39] J-e-f-f-A: I'm not familar with the 'bug' – but do you intend to use the HDHR with other machiines on your network too, not just myth?
[02:26:34] BLZbubba: in 0.23 it worked with both tuners, in 0.24 a bug was introduced where it would only work with 1 tuner if you used the ip address
[02:27:13] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: So what's the difference if you have to hardcode the IP or hardcode the device ID?
[02:28:25] BLZbubba: i can only use udp or tcp with how the vm is set up, broadcasting won't work unless i set up bridging
[02:29:23] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: Wait, you've got a VPN link between the network your HDHR is on and your Backend's network? May I ask why???
[02:30:16] BLZbubba: no but they are on different subnets too, so that is 2 problems to deal with
[02:30:32] BLZbubba: i am just wondering if the bug is fixed yet
[02:30:57] J-e-f-f-A: BLZbubba: Why so complex? ^ I don't know, your best bet is to look at the ticket you opened... (You did open a ticket, right?)
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[02:41:32] I_Rebel: Hello all
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[02:45:56] wagnerrp: BLZbubba: yes, mythtv still requires your HDHR to be autodetected
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[02:46:05] wagnerrp: the issue with direct IPs has not yet been resolved
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[02:56:33] I_Rebel: where can I find a listing of the latest supported hardware?
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[02:56:45] mycoDA: !url tunbers
[02:56:45] MythLogBot: No match for keyword tunbers
[02:56:54] mycoDA: !url tuners
[02:56:54] MythLogBot: tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information
[02:57:10] mycoDA: stoopid arthritis
[02:57:32] I_Rebel: wow...thanks
[02:58:13] mycoDA: :O j-e-f-f-a a trash 80 – would almost be worth trying
[02:58:50] mycoDA: (being serious – would be majorly cool to mount an itx machine in the top and switch the monitor back and forth)
[02:59:13] J-e-f-f-A: mycoDA: Hehehehe... ;-) I picked it up for $4.99 at a thrift store and brought it back to life.  ;-) I took a Computer Science class in 9th grade on this, and learned basic programming back then... ;-)
[02:59:35] mycoDA: i had an amstrad – would be hard to mod that
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[03:03:52] I_Rebel: that link doesnt show case info...i have zalman hd160xt. most results i get online are ancient saying that the remote and LCD touch screen wont work.
[03:04:10] I_Rebel: does anyone here have any ideas about that?
[03:04:34] mycoDA: !url lirc
[03:04:34] MythLogBot: No match for keyword lirc
[03:04:52] mycoDA: i_rebel – lirc does that stuff
[03:05:08] mycoDA: remote anyway
[03:05:09] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: LIRC does the remote – but the touch-screen probably emulates a mouse.
[03:05:38] I_Rebel: okay...i will see what I can find with those leads. thanks for the assist
[03:05:46] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: If the IR receiver is supported by lirc, then the remote will work. is the LCD USB, or analog vga?
[03:06:29] I_Rebel: lcd is usb
[03:07:01] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: Just for the touch interface, or for the video too?
[03:07:45] I_Rebel: sorry, i dont understand the question...didnt realize there might be difference (?)
[03:09:14] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: The LCD display – does it have two connectors – one VGA (HD15) connector for the Video image, and a USB for the touch-screen, or does it have just one USB connection, and they've got a USB->VGA adapter built-in?
[03:10:28] J-e-f-f-A: Screen Output : D-Sub
[03:10:51] J-e-f-f-A: So it takes Analog VGA in for the LCD Image.
[03:10:56] BLZbubba: wagnerrp: ok thanks
[03:11:33] J-e-f-f-A: Looks like it uses IMON for IR remote – so that much would work.
[03:12:10] I_Rebel: that sounds good, i'm still fuzzy on the LCD thing, but I'm listening :)
[03:12:35] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: But if you want a pretty touch-screen interface to Myth, I'm afraid it's not quite there yet... Myth is really designed for use with an IR remote.
[03:13:23] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: That pretty LCD would be somewhat limited with Myth – maybe a 'mirror' of the primary output?
[03:14:31] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: I've often thought about making a 'mythlcdserver' type program that could use a VGA interface as a pretty full-color LCD status/menu/etc display, but haven't had time to even sit down and start doing anything in code...
[03:15:08] I_Rebel: I guess that's exactly the thing I'll need to get good use out of this case.
[03:15:43] I_Rebel: What can I do to help you get interested in writing it?
[03:16:12] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: Do you have a Delorean and a Flux Capacitor?  ;-)
[03:16:34] wagnerrp: ive got a flux capacitor, but functional deloreans are so hard to come by
[03:17:36] I_Rebel: i lost mine...:( Wife was 'cleaning up', its been M.I.A ever since
[03:17:59] I_Rebel: http://blahblahtshirts.com/product_info.php?products_id=1170
[03:18:46] J-e-f-f-A: I_Rebel: Seriously though... Truth is I may never find the time to do it. :-( I'm getting old, and the days/months/years fly by nowadays... I'll probably get around to it when I retire. ;-)
[03:19:48] wagnerrp: http://store.zeckhausen.com/catalog/product_i . . . ucts_id=3748
[03:19:51] CyberKnet: I have the car and the flux capacitor (http://www.amazon.com/Delorean-Back-Future-Pa . . . /B000256TD0) ... I just lack the debigulator http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVbV5bZCFAc to use the car!
[03:20:08] I_Rebel: Funny to hear you say that...I lost my tech guru (uncle) a week ago, and inherited this HTPC project from him.  :(
[03:20:13] J-e-f-f-A: I *almost* had a Delorian for my Jr prom in 1985... My step-mom worked at a car dealer, and they had one in the rental dept... I was slated to get it, but then 2 weeks before the prom they sold it!!! (GRR) I had to settle for a 300Zx Turbo instead... ;-)
[03:27:59] I_Rebel: thanks for your input tho
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[08:24:28] eamon_: can mythtv play bluray disk?
[08:25:15] [R]: eamon_: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mythtv+bluray
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[08:34:16] MMlosh: I want to store mythtv's recordings on external harddrive.. It never spins down by itself, but there's a command to power off the USB port that will do it (after unmounting) can mythtv do that automatically?
[08:34:36] MMlosh: rephrase: Can mythtv mount the "recordings" harddrive on demand?
[08:35:45] mycoDA: might be able to use the event system to mount it when it is needed
[08:38:44] MMlosh: I am not counting the possibility to replace Upstart with Systemd and letting it happen automatically (just because systemd can do that with any mountpoint)
[08:39:51] MMlosh: mycoDA, hmm.. I am not familiar with that.. Is that likely-to-be-able-to unmount that too?
[08:40:08] [R]: autofs can do it with any mountpoint too...
[08:41:49] mycoDA: [r] that wouldnt issue the commands to disconnect and reconnect the USB – would expect autofs to tack over after that
[08:42:16] [R]: oh, he has to run some random command afterwards...
[08:42:36] [R]: you could create your own /sbin/mount.BLAH that did the proper thing and called the correct mount program
[08:42:36] [R]: lol
[08:43:04] mycoDA: mmlosh http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mythtv+event+system
[08:48:38] MMlosh: [R], my very own special filesystem.... btw: yes.. systemd uses autofs for "waiting until the device comes up" too
[08:51:35] MMlosh: mycoDA, that looks promising... perhaps I can create a "storage backend" and then just power on the drive when it's running
[08:52:13] MMlosh: I expect mythtv to be capable of suspending the storage backend on demand (because that makes sense in general)
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[08:53:13] mycoDA: what would be wrong with jus using the eventsystem to run up the drive when u need ti?
[08:53:40] mycoDA: tho – another q – why not just take the drive out o the case and make it internal and save the hassle
[08:53:55] MMlosh: mycoDA, I need to shut it down when not necessary
[08:54:06] MMlosh: mycoDA, the storage backend is not a PC
[08:54:41] mycoDA: lulwut
[08:54:41] MMlosh: (PC == x86-based)
[08:55:03] mycoDA: maybe you should elucidate
[08:56:14] MMlosh: there are some nice low power ARM devices that would be a good way to go for a NAS application
[08:56:54] mycoDA: i would tend toward amd fusion myself atm
[08:56:56] MMlosh: and they are smaller that the 3.5" harddrive... thus there is no "inside"
[08:57:06] mycoDA: c50 is insane
[08:57:14] mycoDA: even e350 would do
[08:57:47] mycoDA: tho – i3 and i5 are epically low power idle and would be able to do all
[08:58:14] MMlosh: well.. this takes 5W when running
[08:58:41] MMlosh: but it has one SATA.. too bad this drive is probably PATA
[08:58:42] mycoDA: similar to fusion
[08:59:10] mycoDA: remember to add the 5w to any other system you would need to run anyway
[08:59:45] MMlosh: I don't have to..
[08:59:59] MMlosh: this thing can run tuners, database, storage and master
[09:00:13] [R]: XTREME underpowered backend
[09:00:15] mycoDA: oooh thats gonna be fun – not under myth it cant
[09:00:26] MMlosh: and big desktops that are clients would transcode everything themselves
[09:00:41] MMlosh: [R], I know.. and probably extremely unused
[09:00:54] mycoDA: it just cant do the job mmlosh
[09:01:05] ** [R] summons wagnerrp **
[09:01:12] mycoDA: if you dont have a LOT of channels zacate prolly would
[09:01:32] mycoDA: zacate has a tdp of 18W
[09:01:33] MMlosh: just dvb-t. no satellite
[09:01:47] mycoDA: ur an aussie hey
[09:02:25] mycoDA: zacate should hadle backend duties fine over here
[09:02:29] mycoDA: tho not frontend
[09:02:42] mycoDA: (ati drivers and myth dont get along)
[09:03:40] mycoDA: would be about 25W flat out inc drives, and have enough kick to handle the database for 15 FTA channels giving 150 or so matches
[09:03:55] mycoDA: would be able to handle commflaging too
[09:04:36] mycoDA: tho if ur transcoding, a quad would likely save power by being in powersave more of the time
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[09:06:16] MMlosh: Of course I know I'll need something bigger one day.. it's hard to guess how powerful it has to be when nobody uses it right now
[09:07:05] MMlosh: do you know it zacate has the sandybridge's ill-features too? (speaking of intel insider and antitheft)
[09:08:44] mycoDA: no idea what you mean – but AMD and intel dont share much IP anymore
[09:10:12] mycoDA: mmlosh – scheduling runs over 1 minute cause issues in myth
[09:11:21] MMlosh: mycoDA, sandybridge has some features I really dislike
[09:11:41] mycoDA: which are?
[09:11:42] MMlosh: I hope AMD does not come up with an equivalent
[09:11:56] MMlosh: Intel insider and Anti-theft
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[09:15:48] mycoDA: antitheft thing is already commonplace
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[09:26:02] spirit3: argh ... just when everything was working so well ...
[09:26:47] spirit3: mythbackend[2109]: segfault at 50 ip b46782dc sp bfc3f600 error 4 in libQtCore.so.4.7.0[b461c000+290000]
[09:26:52] spirit3: constant segfaults
[09:27:43] spirit3: MythTV Version 26437 branches/release-0-23-fixes QT 4.7.0
[09:28:05] MMlosh: mycoDA, really? a standard CPU's can be remotelly killed right now?
[09:28:29] mycoDA: depends on the rest of the platform
[09:29:05] mycoDA: also quite possible to have them report to base instead (firmware based)
[09:31:18] MMlosh: reporting to base – true.. any firmware that has a connectivity can do that
[09:32:11] MMlosh: OK.. disabling is not as hard too.. the firmware can just mark it somewhere and then just refuse to start.. perhaps OK
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[09:52:20] justinh: oo. that works. neat-o
[09:53:04] mycoDA: its baaaaaaack
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[09:59:40] justinh: lirc was being a bit stupid last time I booted up my frontend for some reason. lircd was running, but mythfrontend wasn't responding to button presses. trying irw wouldn't work either, saying connection refused. strange. restarted the machine.. still the same. logged in via ssh, restarted the lirc service, hey presto all was well again. nothing illuminating in the logs. tricky
[10:00:13] justinh: and so goes the theory that a box just 'left alone', never upgraded or having its config files messed with – will always Just Work (tm)
[10:01:15] justinh: current theory is that maybe upstart messed up, lirc got its knickers in a twist & its PID file wasn't left in the right state.. or something
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[10:18:16] justinh: FGS.. Click listings are showing the wrong times on uk_rt AGAIN
[10:18:33] justinh: now the early Sunday morning slot is shown as 3.30am
[10:18:50] justinh: still *supposed* to be 04.30
[10:19:06] justinh: last week it was shown as 05.30 when it was still supposed to be 4.30
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[10:22:54] justinh: hmm. radiotimes website is showing the correct time
[10:29:22] justinh: huh? in http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/48.dat it's the right time slot on Sunday 17th
[10:33:24] justinh: and in .xmltv/cache it
[10:33:30] justinh: duh it's shown as the right time too
[10:33:33] justinh: hmmmmm
[10:47:19] justinh: gah. STILL WRONG
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[11:11:18] spirit3: ok, I'm really stuck here ... major myth backend problems :(
[11:11:42] spirit3: anyone offer any clues?
[11:11:56] justinh: based on the info provided so far, you're basically screwed
[11:12:05] spirit3: that's what I thought :)
[11:12:21] justinh: oh wait, just looked at the scrollback lol
[11:12:31] justinh: segfault eh..
[11:12:56] justinh: needs a backtrace to be meaningful.. so mythtv compiled with debugging symbols & all that jazz
[11:13:24] spirit3: Yeah I was just retyping ... but yes, segfaults as soon as mythbackend starts
[11:13:36] spirit3: I've installed the debug packages
[11:13:42] spirit3: but apport doesn't seem to catch any errors
[11:13:42] justinh: nothing helpful if you start it with -v most ?
[11:13:52] justinh: apport is a chocolate fireguard
[11:15:11] justinh: try running mythbackend with -v most
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[11:15:47] justinh: it'll fill the log up pretty darn quick, but might give you more to go on than the somewhat blank segfault message – i.e. a clue regarding some setting or other
[11:15:59] justinh: not that an incorrect setting should be causing a segmentation fault, mind
[11:15:59] spirit3: I'll give that a go ... thanks
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[11:20:37] spirit3: connected to database, attempting to connect to backend – connect() failed (ConnectionRefused) followed by 'MythBackend running as a slave' – it should be a master ...
[11:21:40] justinh: oh wait
[11:21:46] justinh: we've kind of been here before
[11:22:20] spirit3: Well that sounds hopeful ...
[11:22:53] justinh: no, I think you were the guy who had a system you were trying to add a slave backend to and your setup IP addresses were wrong – and also not static...
[11:23:35] spirit3: ah no – that wasn't me
[11:24:38] justinh: you're right. it wasn't..
[11:24:40] spirit3: ut mythbackend server ip is set to 127.0.0.1 ... I thought that was normal
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[11:24:49] spirit3: I've just changed that to the network address
[11:24:59] justinh: yeah that's the default for a self contained myth system
[11:25:33] justinh: so, let's see the log in a pastebin
[11:26:52] spirit3: oddly, after changing the ip ... mythtv-backend seems to be doing useful things :s
[11:27:10] justinh: here's the drill
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[11:38:36] spirit3: Hmm, ignore the last question, it appeared once but not again on a following restart
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[11:57:32] justinh: btw if your frontend(s) is/are not on the same machine as the backend you have to run mythbackend bound to the LAN IP of the machine
[11:58:12] justinh: in the case of a single backend with one or more remote frontends,both IP addresses/hostnames in mythtv-setup would be the LAN IP of the backend
[11:58:50] spirit3: great – that's how I have things set now
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[12:02:04] spirit3: justinh: Are you a developer or 'just' a very knowledgable user?
[12:02:36] spirit3: Thanks for your help regardless – despite ages searching I wasn't getting anywhere
[12:04:39] jamiem: regardless.aaisp.net.uk
[12:04:54] jamiem: regardless.aaisp.net.uk. 60 IN CNAME regardless.ams.aaisp.net.uk.
[12:05:25] jamiem: oh; status
[12:06:11] justinh: I've been both :-)
[12:07:21] justinh: not sure any of my code is still in mythtv, mind ;-) But on the other hand maybe that's why it's better these days
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[12:12:16] justinh: eh? some so-called LED TVs don't have backlit areas that can be turned on & off by the electronics – they use side illumination & adjust the whole backlight brightness
[12:12:56] justinh: when LED illumination was first talked about I could've sworn it was all about backlighting sub picture areas accordingly
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[12:15:12] justinh: seems there are 3 different kinds of LED illumination. cheers wikipedia
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[12:19:55] justinh: wow. gnome3 looks er... like I won't be using it if I can help it
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[12:23:02] eamon_: what's wronh with it justinh?
[12:23:18] eamon_: is it faster than GNOME 2?
[12:23:33] justinh: screenshot here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/11/gnome_3_review/
[12:23:33] eamon_: cause that's all IO care about
[12:24:10] justinh: can't say the gnome I use is slow
[12:24:32] justinh: and any deficiencis in the menus I've found are purely due to how ubuntu categorise things
[12:24:53] justinh: well, that & the fact they peskily moved buttons to the other side of windows. grr
[12:26:17] eamon_: It looks nice to me justinh. Reminds me of OSX's applications window except cleaner
[12:26:53] justinh: I don't like areas full of massive icons
[12:27:06] justinh: maybe on a smartphone or tablet with er.. not many apps.. sure
[12:28:00] eamon_: Hrm, I'd rathar that than menus. Personal preference I suppose. Stick with GNOME 2 so
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[12:28:15] justinh: there's gonna be some major swearing in my house soon, when I install windows 7 on my new desktop machine
[12:28:28] mycoDA: if you want fast you dont wantg gnome lol
[12:28:50] justinh: (because you can't edit videos in linux, in any kind of meaningful way yet)
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[12:29:23] eamon_: mycoDA: Is GNOME 3 slow? I thought they worked on the backend from the ground up for the last 7 years or something?
[12:30:27] mycoDA: is a pretty large project, a desktop environment not a window manager – it is never gonna be as quick as something like flucebox or icewm or xfce
[12:30:51] eamon_: xFce is a DE
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[12:31:24] eamon_: And I don't find Xfce any faster than GNOME 2
[12:31:44] justinh: people confuse 'fast' with 'low memory footprint' :-)
[12:32:01] justinh: quicker to load, maybe
[12:32:20] justinh: quicker for menus to appear to enable you to do stuff.. questionable IMHO
[12:33:01] justinh: I never got around to booting my frontend to anything but GNOME & it gets into mythfrontend in < 25 secs still
[12:33:24] eamon_: supposedly GNNOME 3 is all hardware accellerated like windows so with an nVidia card it should be fast in thoery
[12:34:09] justinh: so you need working, fast GL.. I assume
[12:34:30] justinh: basically ruling out open source ATI drivers, open source nvidia.. and intel
[12:34:52] eamon_: why would anyone use the open source drivers
[12:35:10] justinh: because closed source drivers kill babies
[12:35:11] eamon_: and why are you useing GNOME on a mythbox?
[12:35:12] hashbang: justinh: kdenlive is bonkers to use, but seems to work well for video editing
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[12:35:33] justinh: hashbang: sony vegas ftw. I paid for it & will continue to use it as long as it works
[12:36:13] justinh: adobe premiere was close, but it seemed very nasty in realtime operations compared to vegas
[12:36:18] eamon_: the nVidia drivers kick butt, they're aimed at the professional market for CAD on linux
[12:36:22] hashbang: fair enough
[12:36:25] justinh: it was even slower than Ulead video studio
[12:36:40] hashbang: I've only done a little bit, to DVD a few things that MythArchive couldn't
[12:36:50] justinh: hashbang: it crashes sometimes, but so rarely it's not annoying
[12:37:41] justinh: hey, I used mytharchive once!
[12:37:58] mycoDA: is insane t5o get rid of simple stuff like minimise and maximise – they obviously didnt put 2 seconds into thikning about accessibility making gnome3
[12:38:20] mycoDA: did you pay for windows too justinh?
[12:39:05] justinh: and I can't honestly remember when the last time I burned a video DVD was
[12:39:15] justinh: might've been about 4 years or so ago
[12:40:09] justinh: got hours & hours of camcorder footage stacking up.. need to edit it into highlights of magic moments for archiving
[12:40:24] justinh: I'm trying to be realistic – I won't be able to keep all the raw material
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[12:41:30] justinh: the problem is in sorting it. my laptop can hardly even play 1080P AVCHD files – so I'd have to transcode the lot just to see which file is which
[12:41:53] justinh: hence my need of a quad core running at > 3Ghz or so :-)
[12:44:43] justinh: and of *course* I'll be paying for my copy of windows 7. I'd likely just #GetAMac if the damn things weren't so blimmin expensive though
[12:45:21] justinh: then I'd have to buy the software all over again too..
[12:46:02] justinh: nah, going this way to get 64-bit operation, working on big grown up files & hopefully it'll just eat whatever I feed it
[12:46:05] mycoDA: kinda cheated on the doze licences, chucked in with some1 for a technet subscription
[12:46:46] mycoDA: got a couple o ultimate, and a couple of ultimate KN, couple of office2k10 etc
[12:48:56] justinh: yeh well not being in a priviliged position.. gotta stump up £70 or whatever
[12:49:10] mycoDA: justinh – what is a good price comparison engine for tech over there
[12:49:17] justinh: it's not a bad sum.. in theory. if everything just works (tm)
[12:49:28] mycoDA: pity it doesnt lol
[12:49:33] hashbang: mycoDA: skinflint.co.uk
[12:49:44] justinh: and way less risky than getting an install disc off my dad & running software of questionable legitimacy
[12:50:03] justinh: my dad's all over piracy. still. free software, he calls it :-\
[12:50:55] hashbang: "pirated software is only free if your passwords have no value"
[12:52:07] mycoDA: lol – that would only apply if you source it from an untrusted source hashbang
[12:52:26] justinh: hashbang: heheh my local retailer is cheaper than any of the shops on that comp. website once you add shipping
[12:53:41] hashbang: mycoDA: I used to feel the same way, but I've seen too many infected and re-packed warez to bother these days.
[12:53:58] hashbang: mycoDA: my time is too valuable to bother verifying stuff.
[12:54:11] ** justinh wonders if it'd be worth registering a hooky .ac.uk email address **
[12:54:39] mycoDA: was more talkin friends hashbang, phsical filesharing networks lol, olschool
[12:54:54] mycoDA: no way on earth i would install an os from a warez site
[12:55:35] hashbang: ditto downloading mp3s; getting a complete album of uncorrupt files is harder than putting a pricewatch on find-dvd.co.uk/find-cd.co.uk and waiting for it to fall to <=£5.00 or whatever.
[12:56:13] justinh: yeah dad's always asking for tips on correcting ID tags
[12:56:26] hashbang: justinh: that's the least of it
[12:56:37] justinh: really? how so
[12:56:39] hashbang: justinh: duff frames, bad rips, etc
[12:57:12] mycoDA: justinh – best way to grab Sky over there? analog capture from stb?
[12:57:23] mycoDA: !url cable
[12:57:23] MythLogBot: No match for keyword cable
[12:57:30] mycoDA: !cable
[12:57:41] mycoDA: !url cable tv capture
[12:57:41] MythLogBot: No match for keyword cable
[12:57:58] justinh: ONLY way to grab Sky == analogue capture from STB
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[12:59:10] justinh: same goes for any system which uses NDS' propriatary encryption
[12:59:18] mycoDA: apparently a lot of it can be grabbed with dvb-s tuners, but a lot is encrypted too
[12:59:29] justinh: no, you can only grab the FTA stuff
[12:59:34] ** hashbang fails to be convinced by Sky's value proposition **
[12:59:37] justinh: anything FTV (free to view) is encrypted
[12:59:45] hashbang: if I followed sport, I might feel differently
[12:59:51] justinh: and anything you pay for, is encrypted
[13:00:01] mycoDA: i hav never been convinced of pat-tv
[13:00:04] justinh: and anything you pay for, is likely to cost more in future
[13:00:27] hashbang: years ago, I might have stumped up for the movie channels and sci-fi stuff
[13:00:42] justinh: we used to have a basic pay package, which I put through mythtv.. but I looked at the recording stats & we were paying £25 a month for 2 shows
[13:00:55] mycoDA: bugger that
[13:00:57] hashbang: but DVD rental by post (and upcoming Netflix UK over the net) will suffice for films
[13:01:02] eamon_ is now known as eamon
[13:01:26] hashbang: and there's more crappy sci-fi on TV than I can be bothered to watch these days
[13:01:37] hashbang: years ago, I'd have been totally all over stuff like Lost, Heroes, etc
[13:01:42] mycoDA: lol trudat
[13:01:55] justinh: Lost was technically SF? LOL
[13:01:57] mycoDA: lost??? was named for the plot
[13:02:03] justinh: no wonder so many fell for it
[13:02:09] hashbang: I wonder if I'll bail on The Walking Dead and The Event in due course...
[13:02:20] justinh: and no wonder so many would hear no ill talked of it
[13:02:25] hashbang: also 4400, etc
[13:02:27] justinh: The (non) Event
[13:02:41] hashbang: Buffy, Stargates, Farscape
[13:02:41] justinh: SnoreForward – whatever happened to that?
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[13:03:39] hashbang: half the stuff gets canceled after a season or so, with the story untold, so what's the point in wasting ~22*45m watching it?!?
[13:04:13] justinh: IMHO writers should ideally go with smaller story arcs
[13:04:32] hashbang: justinh: also, UK-style 8–10 ep seasons are better, I think
[13:04:37] justinh: I don't have the patience to wait 5 years to put everything together
[13:04:40] hashbang: justinh: forces tighter narrative
[13:04:43] justinh: yup
[13:05:10] justinh: or at least if there are aspects over a longer arc don't make those the whole premise behind the show :-)
[13:05:14] hashbang: there's a good case for seeing if the story actually gets completed, then just buying the box set if it does
[13:05:28] justinh: Dr Who might be a load of bollocks but it's generally pretty neatly worked out
[13:06:01] justinh: with or without the absolutely lazy deus ex machina.. aka The Sonic Screwdriver
[13:06:17] hashbang: heh
[13:06:46] hashbang: thing is about Dr Who, it's a "family" show. Don't expect hard sci-fi, and you won't be disappointed
[13:07:00] justinh: some things are better when they don't run for a long time too – what's so bad about something not lasting 10 years & going stale?
[13:07:45] hashbang: I must admit, the similarities between Outcasts' style and that of Spooks (both by Kudos) make me wonder if I'll stick with Spooks
[13:08:07] justinh: IMHO getting uncancelled was the worst thing to happen to Family Guy. Macfarlane & co got cocky (and more musical)
[13:08:20] justinh: gave up on Spooks yonks ago
[13:08:39] hashbang: justinh: it's had its moments
[13:08:49] justinh: the 1st series was like a bolt from the blue.. people being shoved head first into a fryer etc...
[13:09:08] justinh: just lost momentum later on. ooo. another tourist threat.. yawn
[13:09:26] hashbang: justinh: yup, I just had it on in the background until the fryer thing – made me sit up and pay attention when they killed off a major character
[13:09:35] hashbang: justinh: but then, even that became a Spooks-ism
[13:09:37] justinh: there's not enough of that either :)
[13:10:13] justinh: at the end of the last season of 24 I wished Jack Bauer dead, but only for his own sake ;-)
[13:10:15] hashbang: I liked the characters of Ruth and Malcolm, but I'd probably have a bit more respect if they offed them...
[13:11:07] justinh: anyway, no matter how mediocre our stuff is – I can't remember being so uninvolved with a series I couldn't remember a single character's name.. save that for FlashForward
[13:11:20] hashbang: heh
[13:11:48] justinh: I remember jack Davenport was in it.. and some nutter from manchester. that's about it
[13:11:49] hashbang: Rubicon on BBC 4 is looking interesting, and I still like Spiral (aka Engrenages)
[13:12:21] justinh: apparently walking dead is good.... not on terrestrial yet though
[13:12:31] hashbang: justinh: no, it was on Five last night
[13:12:37] justinh: was it? arse
[13:13:05] justinh: the one with Andrew 'Voiceoverman' Lincoln?
[13:13:54] justinh: hahah yes
[13:13:58] hashbang: justinh: Egg from This Life
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[13:14:23] justinh: whoah 1 hour 45 mins?
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[13:14:34] hashbang: justinh: I think that's just the first ep
[13:14:53] hashbang: and only 70m of that is content
[13:15:02] justinh: 1h45, 1h35, 1h30 ... 1h5
[13:15:32] hashbang: interestingly, next season of Spooks is only 6 eps apparently, down from 8 of recent seasons
[13:16:33] hashbang: hmm, both Rubicon and Waking Dead are AMC franchises
[13:16:44] justinh: oo goody, first episode is repeated twice this week :-)
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[13:16:46] hashbang: bugger, Rubicon's already been canceled
[13:16:53] justinh: do we even *NEED* a DVR anymore? lol
[13:17:07] hashbang: justinh: depends /when/ the repeats are on
[13:17:25] hashbang: justinh: watching TV past 11pm or so is usually a #fail for me
[13:17:32] justinh: yeah me too
[13:17:37] justinh: unless it's a weekend
[13:17:49] justinh: but Tom still wakes up at the same time in the morning..
[13:18:04] hashbang: "huh, why's this suddenly turned into a japanese war film/golf/a documentary about elephants?"
[13:18:26] justinh: was it on BBC News & it got bumped?
[13:18:35] justinh: btw still having bother with BBC News xmltv data
[13:18:45] justinh: it looks right in the XML..
[13:18:52] justinh: but in mythtv the times are wrong
[13:19:09] justinh: are the xmltv times UTC?
[13:19:12] hashbang: justinh: just commenting on the disjunction when I fall asleep partway through something...
[13:19:20] justinh: hashbang: hahaha yes
[13:19:44] hashbang: I usually spend 5 dazed minutes trying to make the narrative work before I realise what's happened...
[13:22:08] eamon is now known as ranunculoid
[13:22:24] justinh: oh great
[13:22:30] ranunculoid is now known as eamon
[13:22:31] ** justinh waves bye bye to flexitime **
[13:23:01] justinh: they're changing the core hours, making it so we can't take leave with excess hours.. and allowing managers to dictate work arrival & leaving times
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[13:31:54] justinh: hmmm checking other xmltv data.. it's the same in mythtv as it is in the xml
[13:32:07] justinh: so something very funky is going on with the BBC News channel data
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[13:35:09] hashbang: justinh: give me an example of something that's wrong for you on BBC News
[13:35:21] justinh: er.. Click
[13:35:30] justinh: this Sunday, 17th
[13:35:39] justinh: listed as 3.30am start time
[13:35:54] hashbang: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 03:30 AM
[13:35:54] hashbang: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 10:30 AM
[13:35:54] hashbang: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 02:30 PM
[13:35:54] hashbang: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
[13:36:14] justinh: hashbang: RT website says 04:30 AM on BBC News
[13:36:25] justinh: BBC Click homepage says 04.30 too
[13:36:35] justinh: the xmltv data says 04.30 too
[13:37:37] justinh: "Click~~~~~~false~false~false~false~false~false~false~false~~~Science~A guide to the latest gadgets, websites, games and computer industry news.~false~17/04/2011~04:30~05:30~60
[13:38:05] justinh: wonder if the data is missing an offset or something
[13:38:45] hashbang: seems to be consistently an hour off
[13:39:00] justinh: maybe I should send nick an email about it
[13:39:27] justinh: I just pasted the actual data from http://xmltv.radiotimes.com/xmltv/48.dat though – it's saying the right time
[13:39:43] justinh: !seen knowledgejunkie
[13:39:43] MythLogBot: knowledgejunkie was last seen 551 days 19 hours 20 minutes 17 seconds ago
[13:39:51] justinh: heh it's been a while, then
[13:43:24] hashbang: justinh: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.tv.xmltv.general/3261
[13:44:14] mycoDA: how would i make myth recvord all the carry on movies – what sort of regex will it accept as a title in mythweb?
[13:45:07] justinh: program.title LIKE "%carry%on%"
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[13:45:12] justinh: user-friendly, huh
[13:45:39] mycoDA: ossum lol
[13:46:02] justinh: one of my aims, one day, is to make all that stuff much nicer in mythfrontend
[13:46:19] justinh: hashbang: and eew.. correcting it how.. on the server.. or something? heh
[13:46:21] mycoDA: do i put that in the title field in mythweb custom, or just LIKE "%carry%on%"
[13:46:41] mycoDA: amazed itg isnt just "carry on*"
[13:46:59] justinh: the custom rule stuff has example clauses you can try
[13:49:39] justinh: erm.. "on the supplement server".. wth does that mean?
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[13:55:06] justinh: hahaha "news.bbc.co.uk|48|BBC News|http://www.lyngsat-logo.com/logo/tv/bb/bbc_ne . . . ||SDTV"
[13:55:23] justinh: that's bloody silly
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[14:09:37] justinh: heh you can fix it by downloading the supplement file and setting an env variable to point to a changed local copy :-)
[14:13:06] hashbang: justinh: yup, I'm just fiddling with that now
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[14:13:16] hashbang: justinh: for some reason, it's not replacing the local cached copy
[14:16:10] justinh: prolly worth emailing the xmltv list
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[14:40:07] hashbang: justinh: is it me, or is the new supplement data making it even worse?
[14:40:35] justinh: nope
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[14:40:55] hashbang: my listings are now showing:
[14:40:57] justinh: I downloaded the channel_ids file & the others but edited the _ids file to remove the -1hour bit
[14:41:17] justinh: Sat Apr 16, 2011, 03:30 AM
[14:41:17] justinh: Sat Apr 16, 2011, 08:30 PM
[14:41:18] justinh: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 04:30 AM
[14:41:18] justinh: Sun Apr 17, 2011, 11:30 AM
[14:41:23] justinh: whoops
[14:41:29] hashbang: justinh: right, that -1 is supposed to be Nick's *fix*
[14:41:30] justinh: hoped they might all come out on one line
[14:41:44] justinh: no, the fix was because they were one hour ahead before
[14:41:55] justinh: they've fixed the source data now
[14:41:59] hashbang: ah, right
[14:42:01] justinh: so his fix makes the listings wrong
[14:42:59] justinh: it's kind of a cool idea to be able to fix on the fly like this but better to fix the source IMHO
[14:45:59] justinh: also funny how no other users have seemingly noticed
[14:46:32] justinh: mind, judging by the stuff I saw in the 'mythtv' twitter feed maybe I shouldn't be too surprised
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[14:46:52] justinh: mythtv finished recording "stupid crap channel 5 show" on mythBE1
[14:46:56] justinh: etc
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[14:52:29] hashbang: justinh: my mythfilldatabase-debug.sh wrapper script grows by a few lines
[14:52:44] justinh: ruh?
[14:52:54] hashbang: justinh: I now wget -N those files to local copies before running mythfilldatabase
[14:53:09] justinh: why?
[14:53:09] hashbang: justinh: and set XMLTV_SUPPLEMENT to point at those local copies
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[14:53:43] hashbang: justinh: xmltv's default behaviour (when called by mythfilldatabase at least) is to use the online copies, but not keep a cache
[14:53:52] justinh: ahhh
[14:54:33] hashbang: justinh: by doing that, I can update when they're updated, but if I manually hack the cached copies, they remain until a newer version is available from supplement.xmltv.org
[14:54:45] hashbang: justinh: not maintenance-free, but a reasonable compromise, I think
[14:55:06] hashbang: justinh: I'd noticed some odd behaviour when the FIVE channels didn't get new icons a few weeks back
[14:55:10] justinh: once exported the variable should stick for a while, so I'll not worry
[14:55:44] ** justinh ponders.. just how long does it take for somebody to come here from #mythtv anyway? :-) **
[14:58:12] justinh: anyway.. 4pm.. I'm gittin, while the gittin's good
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[17:44:38] wagnerrp: sphery: you in?
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[17:56:22] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah
[17:56:47] sphery: just saw your pm
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[18:02:01] Wicked: im running ubuntu 10.04 and im wondering if compiling the hdpvr drivers would give me newer/better drivers. I dont need the ir blaster in the hdpvr working...but im curious if there will be more changes/stability from the newer ones. Anyone in here have any ideas? If its not really improved much id prefer to keep the default ones in this kernel
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[18:04:40] sphery: Wicked: what instabilities are you seeing? lots of failed, 0-byte or no-file recordings from HD-PVR?
[18:05:34] sphery: if you were on 10.10, I'd recommend trying the mainline kernel (from the repo or ppa or wherever you get that in *buntu), but haven't heard much about problems in 10.04
[18:06:11] Wicked: so far i have not gotten any 0byte files. The only issue im seeing is mid recording the light ont he hdpvr goes off then on a few times. I think its from other things using the hard drive. But ive gone ahead and set the other things to use a low nice/ionice priority
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[18:11:28] sphery: Wicked: that seems to be common... the HD-PVR stops responding or locks up or something, so mythbackend restarts it
[18:11:36] sphery: don't think it's fixed in later drivers, even
[18:12:06] sphery: don't even know that it /is/ a driver problem (versus hardware or USB or ...)
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[18:12:32] Wicked: ah. yea. it seems to be ok as in it does not require manual reset...but yea it seems like mid record mythtv loses communitcation with it and reinitiates the recording
[18:13:03] Wicked: i assumed it was a driver issue since its still "new"
[18:13:21] Wicked: kinda a hack it together get it working..then iron out the kinks type thing
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[18:14:36] sphery: yeah, pretty sure that happens to everyone (even jp abq , who does a lot of work on the mythtv code for HD-PVR and, IIRC, the driver, too)
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[18:15:37] Wicked: ah. any idea if it just happens no matter what...or is it due to some trigger?
[18:15:47] Wicked: like heavy diskio or something
[18:16:10] abqjp: Wicked: some people have reported that adding "irqpoll" to your kernel boot parameters helps.
[18:17:18] sphery: seems I pinged when I tried not to :)
[18:17:29] abqjp: sphery: I have an alert set for HD-PVR
[18:17:44] sphery: guess it was good, though, since abqjp knows this much better than me--and has a suggestion
[18:17:55] Wicked: ah
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[18:18:17] Wicked: ill have to look into irqpoll. any ill effects from adding that?
[18:18:25] Wicked: im not familiar with what that does.
[18:19:02] sphery: from /usr/src/linux-`uname -r`/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt: irqpoll: [HW] When an interrupt is not handled search all handlers for it. Also check all handlers each timer interrupt. Intended to get systems with badly broken firmware running.
[18:19:30] Wicked: hmm. i see.
[18:19:51] sphery: i.e. points to "not the HD-PVR or the HD-PVR's driver's fault" :)
[18:20:11] sphery: this is why USB3 will be wonderful
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[18:20:18] sphery: getting rid of the stupid polling
[18:20:29] sphery: (for USB3 devices on USB3 controllers)
[18:20:57] Wicked: so it would be the firmware inside the hdpvr from hauupauge?
[18:21:10] sphery: sounds more like a USB failure to me
[18:21:27] sphery: so mobo/chipset/... type stuff
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[18:21:41] Wicked: i see
[18:21:51] sphery: then again, I'm just guessing on that
[18:22:12] sphery: and my anti-USB<3 bias may be driving my guess
[18:22:24] sphery: (that being "less than 3", not "USB love"
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[18:22:59] Wicked: lol
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[18:24:40] Wicked: brb need to reboot the box
[18:26:00] abqjp: Wicked: The HD-PVR is very sensitive to interruptions. I had a hard drive that occasionally would not respond for an extra moment (flaky sectors), and that would be enough to cause the HD-PVR recording to glitch. I replace that drive, and that almost entirely solved my problems.
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[18:56:15] wagnerrp: sphery: looks like only about half of our binaries actually use that class as is
[18:57:03] sphery: the mythcommandlineparser? Yeah. It was only mythbackend, mythfrontend, and mythavtest, IIRC
[18:57:31] wagnerrp: mythwelcome, mythpreviewgen, and mythjobqueue as well
[18:58:12] sphery: ah, didn't know about those (though should have remembered mythpreviewgen--as it's mythbackend with stuff removed, and was made after mythcommandlineparser)
[18:58:44] sphery: but all should be using it to standardize and simplify where we can
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[18:59:09] wagnerrp: im wondering how to best set this up
[18:59:23] sphery: except, maybe, mythmessage... since it's not even an Q*Application, IIRC
[18:59:38] wagnerrp: running through each individual option, and doing 'if appname==blah || appname==blah || appname==blah...'
[18:59:46] wagnerrp: just seems a bit cludgy
[18:59:58] sphery: right, I'm more a fan of the OO approach
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[19:00:21] wagnerrp: which would be... no shared options?
[19:00:23] sphery: have a separate type for each major one, that only recognizes the options appropriate for that
[19:00:28] wagnerrp: everything sets their own things up?
[19:00:53] sphery: they inherit globally shared options, and can have multiple levels where appropriate
[19:01:23] sphery: and if we have a "class" of multiple apps that share the same shared options, then just have one type for that
[19:01:51] sphery: (i.e. if some apps only share --help and --version, then that could be one type)
[19:02:07] sphery: get rid of the ifs using polymorphism
[19:02:59] sphery: then again, I'm not one of these programmers who feels that it's appropriate to use an object-oriented language to write non-object-oriented software ("for performance" or whatever)
[19:05:21] wagnerrp: so have a bunch of classes with different LoadArguments methods, that in turn call their parent's method?
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[19:06:02] sphery: so, basically, we'd have a MythCommandLineParser class, which has a MythBackendCommandLineParser subclass and a MythFrontendCommandLineParser subclass and ... maybe a MythGenericCommandLineParser subclass, where the Generic one is used for multiple apps with limited command-line args or something (assuming those exist)
[19:06:07] sphery: yeah, basically
[19:06:41] wagnerrp: well generic would have things like the overridesettings, help, and version
[19:07:19] sphery: yeah, I was just guessing on some things it might have
[19:07:25] wagnerrp: does c++ handle 'diamond' inheritance well?
[19:07:41] sphery: diamond inheritance is always bad OOP
[19:07:47] sphery: (or OOD, I guess)
[19:08:03] wagnerrp: for instance, i have one that pulls in the generic options, and another that pulls in chanid/starttime
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[19:08:12] sphery: better is an "interface" type approach (with pure virtual classes specifying the "multiple" part of the inheritance)
[19:08:27] sphery: but with that you lose inheritance of implementation
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[19:08:56] sphery: and in cases where you need to "inherit" implementation from multiple classes, you are abusing inheritance, and probably should be using aggregation
[19:09:07] wagnerrp: aggregation...
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[19:09:17] sphery: i.e. have some classes that provide the functionality you need and include them as fields in your class
[19:09:23] sphery: then delegate the processing to them
[19:09:31] sphery: no inheritance required
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[19:10:56] wagnerrp: what about marking the various command line options as individual methods, subclasses then call the various methods to add what they want
[19:11:01] sphery: but for the example you specify, assuming that all apps need generic options, MythCommandLineParser <- MythGenericCommandLineParser <- MythRecordingProcessorCommandLineParser
[19:11:23] sphery: (or even just put the "generic" options in to MythCommandLineParser itself, if everyone needs them)
[19:11:28] wagnerrp: MythCommandLineParser::addHelp, MythCommandLineParser::addSettingOverride, ...
[19:14:32] sphery: could do that... with that approach, it's sounding more and more like something that should go with a delegation approach... have a function add(MythCommandLineOption option), where MythCommandLineOption has all the stuff it needs (argument, help text, value, ..., and all the functions to retrieve or print or whatever)
[19:14:58] wagnerrp: thats effectively what this would be
[19:15:10] sphery: so you just need a single MythCommandLineParser, then it has a list of MythCommandLineOptions
[19:15:38] wagnerrp: right, all im looking for is a clean way to not repeat all these long add(...) sequences
[19:16:09] sphery: yeah, for that, we'd be back to multiple commandlineparser classes
[19:16:22] sphery: or big if lists
[19:17:35] wagnerrp: multiple classes defining different options would be fine
[19:17:53] sphery: or slightly smaller if lists, if you use several functions like addGenericOptions(), addRecordingOptions(), ...
[19:18:12] sphery: and group things logically that way
[19:18:34] sphery: anyway, any of those designs should get the job done, and better than we currently do :)
[19:18:47] wagnerrp: that last design is what makes sense in my mind
[19:19:00] sphery: that works
[19:19:16] wagnerrp: having big inheritance trees of child classes just seems to be abusing OOP just because you can
[19:19:22] sphery: the hybrid OO + non-OO approach--and, in truth, better fits with the rest of the MythTV design
[19:19:56] sphery: well, in theory it wouldn't be that big an inheritance tree
[19:20:15] sphery: and, with a "fancier" design, it could be even smaller...
[19:21:12] sphery: using the approach you were mentioning... one class adds the generic options, one adds the recording options, ... you could then use chaining to add those logical groupings of options in any combination desired
[19:21:56] sphery: so, you chain a generic and a recording and a backend parser together, and each handles its own part of the options, and if unhandled, passes the option to the next guy in the chain
[19:22:21] sphery: though I'm guessing that would be overkill since we have only a small number of apps to worry about
[19:22:26] sphery: the hybrid would be fine, though
[19:22:42] sphery: and it not a bad design--even if it's not pure OO :)
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[19:25:05] sphery: Anyway, regardless of what design you come up with, someone will tell you why it's broken, and someone else will tell you why a different design is better (though you'd be able to list problems with the other proposed design)... No design is perfect--but working code is always better than perfect design, anyway.  :)
[19:26:12] sphery: which is why what we have now is infinitely better than the item on my TODO list
[19:26:29] sphery: though you're taking care of that
[19:27:48] wagnerrp: basically, this is what im thinking... http://pastebin.com/b8yizRcG
[19:28:34] sphery: sounds pretty good
[19:29:13] sphery: my main concern in all of this is that we finish the conversion of all our apps to use it
[19:29:24] sphery: and get it to do as much of the help output, etc. as possible
[19:29:38] sphery: so that we have consistent command-line interface and --help outpu
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[19:30:10] sphery: and it seems you're making progress on that front
[19:30:29] wagnerrp: right, help is defined as part of the argument, and is automatically generated by the help function
[19:30:48] sphery: yeah
[19:30:54] wagnerrp: multi-line help is supported
[19:30:58] sphery: and it sounds like we'll get rid of the 2-step parsing, too
[19:30:59] wagnerrp: and duplicate arguments are merged
[19:31:03] sphery: which should simplify things a lot
[19:31:17] wagnerrp: the only concern i see is if you have too many or too long of arguments for the same option
[19:31:23] wagnerrp: the text will get shifted too far
[19:31:32] wagnerrp: perhaps set an upper limit on that
[19:31:39] sphery: yeah, makes sense
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[19:31:50] sphery: and then start the description on the next line
[19:31:51] wagnerrp: after which is will simply move the description for those down a line
[19:31:54] sphery: at some indent
[19:31:59] sphery: right
[19:32:24] wagnerrp: right now, theyre all set to be the same indent, even if you add a newline into the help string
[19:32:45] wagnerrp: multi-line help strings are split at the endline, and indented manually
[19:33:01] tmkt: does the boxee box remote work with myth?
[19:33:16] sphery: and calculated widths/formatting means we don't end up with something like: http://pastebin.com/32k4F7b5
[19:33:24] wagnerrp: does the boxee box remote work with LIRC, or otherwise show up as an HID remote?
[19:33:40] tmkt: yeah..no idea...haven't brought the remote upstairs yet
[19:34:12] wagnerrp: sphery: perhaps we should have a short and long help?
[19:34:24] sphery: I'm always for that :)
[19:34:45] wagnerrp: so '<binname> --help' should show the short help for everything
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[19:35:02] wagnerrp: while '<binname> --help argument' would show the long help for that argument
[19:35:11] sphery: sounds good
[19:35:29] sphery: btw, this means we'd be able to translate the help text, right?
[19:36:01] sphery: if so, that will make a couple of translation managers happy :)
[19:36:09] wagnerrp: well that would involve using tr(char *) strings, instead of just (char *) strings
[19:36:20] wagnerrp: so... four characters per line? i think we could manage that
[19:36:27] sphery: heh
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[19:36:36] sphery: pretty sure there's no reason not to do that
[19:36:50] ** wagnerrp thinks the boxee box designers need a lesson in subtlety **
[19:36:56] tmkt: ?
[19:37:01] tmkt: it is great
[19:37:05] tmkt: i thought the design sucked
[19:37:07] wagnerrp: its hideous
[19:37:08] tmkt: until i got one
[19:37:11] tmkt: its so tiny
[19:37:27] tmkt: just wish i could get it working with myth better
[19:37:28] sphery: it's so hot it melted the table and started to fall through
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[19:38:49] tmkt: i always thought it wouldn't look good with home theatre equipment..but its so tiny..it is barely noticeable
[19:39:45] wagnerrp: its effectively a mini-itx board, in a 2/3 cube case
[19:40:11] tmkt: http://erikkristensen.com/project/mythboxee/ <- once that is working i won't be wish that I got a nettop instead
[19:41:15] wagnerrp: from what i understand, hes being hampered by limitations of the boxee plugin interface
[19:41:35] tmkt: dunno..he seemed to have made progress by hard coding the mythtv port
[19:42:07] wagnerrp: primarily, the video player only supports filenames and URLs
[19:42:21] wagnerrp: you cant hand it a readable file object
[19:42:37] wagnerrp: meaning you cant add additional protocols and formats
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[19:42:41] tmkt: right now i'm using upnp
[19:42:42] tmkt: to connect
[19:42:55] tmkt: but it isn't identifying my videos or recordings nicely
[19:43:03] wagnerrp: its not designed to be extensible, its only intended for video streamed from an http server
[19:43:14] tmkt: i know what the stuff is due to the filenames..
[19:43:28] tmkt: but information like recording time/original air date...
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[19:43:32] tmkt: all the nice stuff
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[19:43:54] tmkt: and the 300 dvds i ripped with handbrake..no metadata..
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[19:46:58] skd5aner: iamlindoro: what are you thoughts related to improving/simplifying xmltvid population for scanned channels? I know that's always an issue for me after a QAM scan and typically leverage the mythweb interface historically to edit – that or I do some SQL-fu with joins to try and match up a backup table to the newly scanned channels
[19:47:17] iamlindoro: skd5aner: I responded with my idea about that to the list
[19:47:23] iamlindoro: My idea is a "channels palette"
[19:47:32] skd5aner: I suppose that means I have to go read them then ;)
[19:47:40] iamlindoro: and if possible a momentary screenshot of the channel
[19:47:57] iamlindoro: so you see the screenshot (and grab another if you like), and then you just pick the channel from the dropdown of nice channel names and numbers
[19:47:59] skd5aner: -users or -dev?
[19:48:03] iamlindoro: users, I think
[19:48:44] iamlindoro: Basically, it would be a channel edit wizard-- you see a screenshot for the channel, and whatever information we gleaned from the scan, and you have a palette fo channels from your source
[19:48:57] iamlindoro: so you say, "Hey, yeah, this is Spike HD"
[19:49:12] iamlindoro: you pull up your channel palette, choose Spike HD, and all the fields for the channel are automatically populated
[19:49:31] wagnerrp: tmkt: mythtv does not supply metadata over upnp
[19:50:08] skd5aner: I suppose similiar to the silicondust channels site – in a sense
[19:50:21] tmkt: yeah..never blaming myth
[19:50:22] iamlindoro: I don't see the parallel
[19:50:26] wagnerrp: tmkt: until very recently, that was because the upnp server simply did not have access to the metadata
[19:50:32] tmkt: just wondering why boxee isn't able to figure it out based off the filename
[19:50:38] tmkt: WhereTheWildThingsAre.m4v
[19:50:53] tmkt: or "Oceans Eleven.m4v"
[19:51:02] wagnerrp: the upnp server had its own video scanner, because the mythvideo metadata table did not get automatically updated
[19:51:13] skd5aner: iamlindoro: the screenshot part correlated to channel data
[19:51:13] wagnerrp: its probably looking at those and... 'm4v? wtf is that?'
[19:51:30] tmkt: thats what i've read..that m4v isn't a good extension
[19:51:46] skd5aner: iamlindoro: not suggesting a direct parallel – but just a "point and click" method I guess
[19:51:48] tmkt: handbrake gave them all those extensions
[19:51:53] wagnerrp: m4v isnt an extension, period
[19:51:55] tmkt: read that i could change it to mp4
[19:52:03] tmkt: but then it might not like the ac3 audio
[19:52:29] skd5aner: iamlindoro: I think your idea makes good sense
[19:52:34] iamlindoro: skd5aner: Yeah, basically the idea is that you get a screenshot, and can request an updated screenshot until a commercial ends, or whatever, or you can skip the channel, but that the only thing you need to do is be able to say, "Yes, this is x channel" and pick it from a drawer of available channels from your listings
[19:52:35] wagnerrp: mp4 is a valid mpeg4 container extension, and the only valid mpeg4 container extension
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[19:52:49] wagnerrp: m4v and m4a are undefined strings, incorrectly used by some applications
[19:52:51] skd5aner: iamlindoro: yea
[19:52:59] tmkt: ok..going to rename all m4v to mp4 today
[19:53:09] tmkt: won't bother myth correct? it will still play them in 5.1?
[19:53:21] wagnerrp: (of course that likely wont change a thing in boxee or mythtv)
[19:53:38] wagnerrp: most video players operate off the magic string a few bytes into the file
[19:53:47] wagnerrp: and outright ignore the extension
[19:53:54] wagnerrp: the extension should only be used for file filtering
[19:53:57] skd5aner: heh – not all though ;)
[19:54:03] tmkt: ok. but it might help boxee identify the correct metadata?
[19:54:33] wagnerrp: probably not at all... i was just making a snide remark
[19:55:05] wagnerrp: maybe it cant handle the lack of spaces in the names
[19:55:26] wagnerrp: maybe it doesnt know which oceans eleven you want to pull metadata from
[19:55:34] wagnerrp: (there are two you know...)
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[19:57:32] tmkt: wagnerrp: i've read a few places that it could me m4v extension
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[19:57:46] tmkt: just know that 300 videos found
[19:57:54] tmkt: 300 videos unidentified
[19:58:19] tmkt: so either i try mp4 extension, and that works..or i generate nfo files for each...huge mess
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[20:02:39] skd5aner: iamlindoro: I'm assuming due to the proprietary nature of the xmltvid, there's no way to offer a centralized service (mythtv or SD) that could keep a table of user submitted ATSC IDs/Frequencies/or something of the like and automatically make the connection for users?
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[20:26:13] tmkt: any idea when pbp/pip will make a return?
[20:26:48] wagnerrp: as soon as someone writes a videowindow widget
[20:27:21] wagnerrp: after that, it should be a fairly simple bit of glue to line everything up in place to use it.
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[20:58:09] wagnerrp: Beirdo: the upnp server now operates on the videometadata table, right?
[20:58:24] wagnerrp: so there is no use to the old --upnprebuild option?
[20:58:50] Beirdo: that would be correct
[20:59:06] wagnerrp: ok, that option is getting outright dropped
[20:59:17] Beirdo: did I miss ripping that out? I know the old patch didn't remove it, but I thought I had killed it since
[20:59:24] Beirdo: have an axe :)
[21:00:01] wagnerrp: it may not be advertised in the backend, but the check is still in the commandlineparser
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[21:01:44] Beirdo: ick
[21:05:25] wagnerrp: Beirdo: well if youre interested... http://pastebin.com/L9Tnpe5z
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[21:10:05] wagnerrp: hahaha
[21:10:49] wagnerrp: currently active on the mythtvtalk forum... wagnerrp, unfoftmoffhaf, google, google feedfetcher, hosttracker, yahoo slurp, google adsense, baido
[21:10:56] wagnerrp: thats a lot of bots...
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[21:16:12] sphery: /away
[21:16:31] wagnerrp: * sphery is now away
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[21:16:49] sphery: I'm guessing the "something special" about the recording that broke the user's system is that it was imported using something like myth.rebuilddatabase.pl
[21:17:12] sphery: and away with no args brings you back... so it should be:
[21:17:13] sphery: 04.12 17:16:14 [freenode] -!- You are no longer marked as being away
[21:17:34] sphery: :)
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[21:19:44] kenni: iamlindoro: Heh, you're too quick closing tickets..
[21:20:15] sphery: no, the problem is our users are too quick at creating new ones... iamlindoro is only making up for slackers like me who let their tickets fester
[21:20:18] wagnerrp: 72 minutes isnt too quick
[21:20:27] kenni: it's funny though, the syntax you mention, I can't see that bliptv.py is even using it
[21:20:43] iamlindoro: I tried both
[21:20:45] wagnerrp: too quick is five minutes after someone has posted a ticket, youre trying to write up a response only to find its already been closed out from underneath you
[21:20:52] iamlindoro: I also modified the script to use that syntax
[21:20:57] iamlindoro: Both return identical results
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[21:21:13] iamlindoro: I wanted to confirm that when using teh currently documented API commends, it still did the same, which it does
[21:22:35] kenni: it seems like the script currently uses blip.tv/search/view/?search= while the current working url is blip.tv/search?q=
[21:24:06] kenni: with skin=rss to receive it in the right format: http://www.blip.tv/search?q=day9;&page=1; . . . amp;skin=rss
[21:24:51] sphery: seems to agree with http://wiki.blip.tv/index.php/Search_API
[21:25:39] iamlindoro: Hmm, I must have missed a character when I tested that
[21:26:25] iamlindoro: Thanks for checking it out, though, will fix
[21:27:26] kenni: np, I was writing a response while a response from you ticked in
[21:31:22] wagnerrp: sphery: do you know what the default offset for the preview generator is?
[21:31:35] wagnerrp: or is that defined in the database?
[21:31:38] iamlindoro: it's calculated, no?
[21:31:40] iamlindoro: it's not in the DB
[21:31:49] iamlindoro: and it's not fixed
[21:33:26] sphery: yeah, calculated
[21:33:32] jya: sphery: what would be the mysql to run to get the value of MaxChannels for a particular frontend ?
[21:33:44] jya: mysql command to run that is
[21:33:45] wagnerrp: ok then... default is 0
[21:34:05] wagnerrp: as in channel count? or highest channum?
[21:34:07] sphery: based on many factors including recording "preroll", start early, listings start time, recording duration
[21:34:57] sphery: jya: SELECT * FROM settings WHERE value = 'MaxChannels' and hostname = 'db_host_identifier';
[21:35:00] sphery: probably?
[21:35:21] wagnerrp: oh, youre talking about audio channels
[21:35:38] jya: MaxChannels is the number of audio channels set in the audio settings
[21:35:59] sphery: I'm guessing this is so you can get the value for a particular user's config, right? not something you need in code
[21:36:09] jya: ye
[21:36:25] jya: just to debug why someone would say the value of their maxchannel changes
[21:36:41] sphery: cool--just wanted to make sure since you can get a setting value for a particular host with existing functions (even if it's not the current host)
[21:36:43] kenni: iamlindoro, just to make it clear – you didn't misread anything, the API documentation *is* out-of-date/wrong..
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[21:37:19] kenni: :)
[21:37:56] sphery: wondering what this unicable thing is
[21:39:35] sphery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_cable_distribution
[21:40:29] sphery: the part that worries me is the "It is based on a kernel patch (http://www.mythtvtalk.com/unicable-scr-din-en-50494-a-14103/), which will not be integrated into the kernel."
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[21:41:30] ekristen: wagnerrp: the .open or ftopen should be able to be used like a normal file handler yes?
[21:41:32] sphery: I fear that if there's a reason the kernel isn't accepting it, that perhaps we shouldn't be accepting a patch that allows its use.
[21:44:18] sphery: jya: btw, you have an impressive number of mythtv hosts :)
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[22:01:00] kenni: sphery, thanks for the comment on the db issue on -users, I'm glad to hear it's unrelated
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[22:03:56] sphery: kenni: yeah, still wonder how he got the broken bookmark data in there
[22:04:10] sphery: but that means your null char patch may be all that's needed
[22:04:17] sphery: FWIW, that patch looked good to me
[22:04:30] sphery: (me being someone who knows nothing about the EIT code)
[22:04:35] sphery: but it sounds like the right place for it
[22:05:00] ** sphery grumbles about incompetent web developers **
[22:06:14] sphery: (unrelated to discussion of your EIT patch--this being web developers who are using, and not parsing properly, the User-Agent string, which means I either can't use their web service or must violate Firefox's trademark)
[22:09:38] kenni: sphery, no, that patch was actually wrong, I forgot to add 3 sets of curly brackets ;) But anyway, I'm still awaiting some feedback from two users who said that they'll test it on their affected systems.
[22:10:50] sphery: heh, well, the idea of the patch was good... syntax is the compiler's problem :)
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[22:29:04] jya: sphery: And I actually have removed a few with hostname I didn't want to disclose :) most of them are just old unused settings. I only have 4 frontends
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[22:33:53] sphery: heh, yeah... one of these days, we'll have the code to delete old hosts in there
[22:34:15] jya: I do have settings for my development VM ..
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[22:34:43] sphery: yeah, it would be a user-initiated action, where users specifies which to delete
[22:34:58] sphery: so wouldn't break anything--even if you have old, seldom-used stuff
[22:35:17] jya: they don't take much space anyhow ...
[22:35:32] sphery: right, that's why I haven't been too bothered
[22:35:42] sphery: it's mostly an issue when users see it and fear it's a problem
[22:35:56] jya: it would be interesting maybe to have a way to match a particular setting to a machine. So you change the machine but use the same hostname ; you get prompted to see if you want to reuse the settings
[22:36:32] sphery: I think we'll have a way to clone settings from an existing machine
[22:36:34] jya: because I see with my mac ;I tend to name all my mac the same. And once the settings for my mac didn't work with the new one
[22:36:37] sphery: and delete old
[22:36:45] sphery: beyond that, probably not much is required
[22:37:06] sphery: oh, and reset settings to default for a given host
[22:37:25] jya: I have no idea why the database settings would change without the user going into the settings ; I thought that wasn't even possible
[22:37:27] sphery: so you'd be able to clone settings from an old system
[22:37:35] sphery: so they are changing for him?
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[22:37:45] sphery: or still unproven?
[22:38:16] sphery: we have some calls that can change them for a single session (override) or permanently (save setting)
[22:38:18] jya: he says that he noticed that the settings change from 5.1 to stereo
[22:38:46] sphery: but last time I tried using save setting to replace a broken value with a proper value, I was told I can't do it since the user didn't tell me to
[22:39:16] sphery: so instead we leave the broken value, then force the user to change it manually
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[22:41:30] jya: and when he goes back into the settings it changed from 5.1 to stereo ;
[22:41:39] sphery: yeah, it definitely looks like (at least on my 0.24 snapshot--not the most current, though) there's no code that changes MaxChannels, except the settings code
[22:42:30] sphery: wondering if that's actually just a display issue with the old (many-broken-since-Qt4-port) Qt settings widgets
[22:42:54] sphery: so it just shows the wrong value in the combo
[22:45:06] wagnerrp: ekristen: yes, 'Program.open()', 'Recorded.open()', and 'Video.open()' all return an object that behaves like a file object
[22:45:29] wagnerrp: since python is dynamically typed, you should be able to pass it into any function expecting a file object
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[22:47:10] jya: exactly, there's no code anywhere to change the settings. And the settings screen will always default with what is in the database ; so what the user reports make no sense to me.. There must be something accessing the database outside
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[22:50:30] sphery: yeah, that could be, too
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[23:11:21] ** GreyFoxx misses the simplicity of svn up -r ### to move between revisions **
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[23:15:56] Beirdo: not sure how that's any different from "git checkout branchname"
[23:16:21] Beirdo: other than being infinitely slower
[23:16:32] GreyFoxx: Because I don't have a fucking clue what I'm doing with this thing. But maybe you can answer a few things for me
[23:16:55] Beirdo: ahh.
[23:16:59] GreyFoxx: A: How do I tell what "revision" I'm at now ? is there an equivalent "svn info" command that will tell me my revision number ?
[23:17:00] Beirdo: I can certainly try
[23:17:44] Beirdo: well, kinda depends.
[23:17:51] Beirdo: the easiest is git log
[23:18:02] Beirdo: the one at the top is the current revision
[23:18:08] GreyFoxx: B: Do the logged "mythbackend version" entries in the backend correspond to a revision number I can plug into a git checkout command to revert to that exact revision or do I have to look it up some other way
[23:18:20] Beirdo: ah :)
[23:18:29] Beirdo: take the part at the end (starts with g)
[23:18:39] Beirdo: remove the g, and do git checkout hash
[23:18:58] Beirdo: i.e. put in the hexidecimal hash instead of the word hash
[23:19:21] GreyFoxx: Ok, I'll try that, I'm trying to get my master back end back to a non crashing state caus eI can't record anything with it crashing when my slaves connect
[23:19:37] Beirdo: v0.25pre-1748-gdd0a734
[23:19:58] Beirdo: for instance... if I wanted to get back to that revision, I'd do "git checkout dd0a734"
[23:20:00] GreyFoxx: C: Once I'm moved to a non current revision, and I want to jump to either current or to yet another version what do I do, currently it bitches that I'm not on a branch or some such
[23:20:27] Beirdo: if you want to commit anything there, the first thing to do is to create a branch there
[23:20:54] Beirdo: if you are just compiling there and not committing anything at that point, ignore the warning :)
[23:20:59] GreyFoxx: this is not for commiting, just for testing versions to see where the breakage gets introduced
[23:21:14] Beirdo: ahhh. git bisect may help there
[23:21:43] Beirdo: but otherwise, if doing it manually, there's no harm in being not on a branch
[23:21:55] GreyFoxx: I use to just use svn up -r XYZ, then I could got svn up -r ABC, and finally when I was done just svn up and be back to head
[23:21:55] Beirdo: as long as you aren't committing there
[23:22:09] Beirdo: when you're done, git checkout master
[23:22:23] GreyFoxx: ok
[23:22:30] Beirdo: or git checkout fixes/0.24 if you are are testing on that branch
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[23:22:40] GreyFoxx: cause so far it's as if this thing wants me to throw a sledge hammer at it
[23:22:49] Beirdo: have you looked at the git for svn users doc?
[23:23:17] Beirdo: http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html
[23:23:23] GreyFoxx: yes, and it didn't answer stuff like, AFTER I've gone to an earlier revision, and want to switch to yet another or go back to current what do I do
[23:23:28] GreyFoxx: That or I was just blind
[23:23:38] Beirdo: ahh. just checkout where ya wanna be
[23:24:05] sphery: but might need to do something with changes, first, right?
[23:24:06] Beirdo: it is a bit of a learning curve to be sure
[23:24:13] sphery: like stash them or something
[23:24:26] Beirdo: well, he's just test compiling at this point
[23:24:28] sphery: (or maybe not... just caught the tail end of this conversation)
[23:24:46] Beirdo: but yeah, if you're making changes to get stuff running, it does get a bit more complex.
[23:24:57] GreyFoxx: I've been having to revert my patches everytime I upate which has been a pain, svn use to just reconcile it
[23:25:02] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: did you open a ticket?
[23:25:16] GreyFoxx: Beirdo: Yeah, with a bt and logs
[23:25:31] Beirdo: oooh, you should likely create a branch to put your patch on
[23:25:33] GreyFoxx: and I can reproduce it easily so I can always test stuff :)
[23:25:43] Beirdo: I think that went to my queue, didn't it?
[23:25:50] GreyFoxx: I'm not sure
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[23:26:13] Beirdo: remember the title or number?
[23:26:15] GreyFoxx: Beirdo, if you can tell me how I can have my patch in there, and auto "reconciled" when I update I would be most happy
[23:26:19] GreyFoxx: ummm yup
[23:27:03] sphery: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9721
[23:27:08] GreyFoxx: http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9721
[23:27:10] GreyFoxx: yeah
[23:27:38] sphery: I didn't assign it to Beirdo, just mentioned him in here
[23:27:42] Beirdo: ah yes.
[23:27:56] Beirdo: is it possible to get a debug build for a better backtrace?
[23:28:05] GreyFoxx: It doesn't happen everytime, but almost everytime
[23:28:25] GreyFoxx: I also do debug build which is what is weird
[23:28:30] GreyFoxx: --compile-type=debug
[23:28:45] Beirdo: ah
[23:28:46] sphery: Gentoo?
[23:28:49] Beirdo: OK, let me see
[23:28:51] sphery: if so, it strips when it installs
[23:29:00] GreyFoxx: Slackware
[23:29:14] sphery: hmmm, might be similar there... making packages versus using make install?
[23:29:24] GreyFoxx: nope, just a make install
[23:29:26] sphery: we don't have any details for slack
[23:29:32] Beirdo: well, the problem is, the crashing thread (Thread 25) has no usable backtrace
[23:29:35] sphery: weird
[23:29:47] Beirdo: I can't even tell *which* thread it is
[23:29:48] GreyFoxx: For tonight I'll get compile this old version so it can record
[23:29:58] Beirdo: it's likely that it got stripped
[23:30:01] Beirdo: OK.
[23:30:11] GreyFoxx: but tomorrow morning I'll do up a uptodate one and test it out and see if I can figure out why it's stripped
[23:30:21] Beirdo: I'd be happy to try to hunt this down with ya if I can
[23:30:36] Beirdo: I hate stupid crashes :)
[23:30:47] sphery: might be some alias for install or something similar in your environment, maybe?
[23:30:51] GreyFoxx: me too, I'd love to play with the new html stuff the guys have been doing so I want to run the latest versions :)
[23:31:18] GreyFoxx: spher: doubtful, I've not run into this before and other than myth updates nothing else has changed that I'm aware of
[23:31:32] Beirdo: odd.
[23:31:33] sphery: hmm, actually some of it has debug info
[23:31:47] Beirdo: it could well be some mysql.txt vs config.xml fun
[23:32:00] GreyFoxx: I've tried running both master+slave with --noupnp
[23:32:05] GreyFoxx: but it didn't make a difference
[23:32:19] Beirdo: some debug is in there, but not all, and not parts that narrow it down in the thread that actually crapped :(
[23:32:33] sphery: based on logs, wagnerrp's guess made sense
[23:32:46] sphery: MythSocket stuff
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[23:33:25] Beirdo: and this is the latest on master?
[23:33:28] GreyFoxx: screw it, I'm gonna just compile up latest
[23:33:33] GreyFoxx: Beirdo: It was at the time
[23:33:55] sphery: guessing it's the ProcessRequestThread failing
[23:34:22] Beirdo: yeah, that's fairly up-to-date
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[23:35:05] Beirdo: it seems to start whining about the QThread destroyed while thread still running
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[23:35:26] Beirdo: in autoexpire
[23:35:29] Beirdo: hmmm
[23:35:49] Beirdo: or seemingly in autoexpire
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[23:36:00] sphery: ah, yeah, that's when it first (and second) happens, it seems
[23:36:24] GreyFoxx: I do always see an autoexpire entry in the logs around the same time as the crash
[23:36:47] Beirdo: OK, I'm gonna look at my QThread conversion of AutoExpire AGAIN
[23:37:33] Beirdo: that's one that danielk had a suggestion on.
[23:37:39] sphery: so, we went from pthread to qthread, and it's failing, now. maybe we just have to wait 'til the upgrade to rthreads
[23:37:43] Beirdo: let me get you a patch to try, in case
[23:38:05] GreyFoxx: Cool stuff. I'm upgrading the master+slave to current right now
[23:38:19] sphery: you are a brave man
[23:38:26] GreyFoxx: It's not like I don;'t have enough recordings to keep me busy :)
[23:38:27] sphery: I used to run unstable on production
[23:38:36] GreyFoxx: I always do
[23:38:45] sphery: then I ralized just how nice it is to have a stable production systme
[23:38:48] GreyFoxx: but I'm thinking that might have to change
[23:39:03] GreyFoxx: and I'll setup some VM's for messing with the other stuff
[23:39:05] sphery: amazing how much time it's saved me after making the switch
[23:39:09] GreyFoxx: hehe
[23:39:13] Beirdo: http://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/0001-Atte . . . thread.patch
[23:39:19] sphery: only problem is I didn't--as planned--start putting all that saved time into mythtv development
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[23:39:30] sphery: nice patch name :)
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[23:39:39] Beirdo: that's what I had lined up so far
[23:39:56] blinki: do I need mythbackend to use mythvideo?
[23:40:07] sphery: blinki: yep
[23:40:22] sphery: blinki: if you just want a media center without TV, you'll probably be happier with some of the other options out there
[23:40:43] sphery: we're getting to the point where MythTV could serve as a non-TV media center, but we still have a ways to go
[23:40:56] blinki: I've been using it on gentoo, but I just can't get it to work on freebsd (the backend)
[23:40:56] GreyFoxx: Beird: Compiling with that. The masterBE is slow so it will be a few minutes before it's done :)
[23:41:08] Beirdo: blinki: you should talk to wagnerrp :)
[23:41:19] blinki: wagnerrp: whats up
[23:41:40] sphery: if you have a gentoo system, why run the backend on freebsd?
[23:41:42] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: K, let me know if that helps... I have had that sitting around a bit, but haven't gotten any further on that
[23:41:47] sphery: why not just run the backend on gentoo?
[23:42:00] Beirdo: sphery: you making sense again?
[23:42:07] sphery: or are you trying to drop the gentoo system and switch to freebsd?
[23:42:24] blinki: sphery: freebsd is where the media lives, and I want to get rid of the physical gentoo box
[23:42:28] Beirdo: freebsd has ZFS, that might be part of it
[23:42:30] blinki: zfs
[23:42:33] blinki: yeah
[23:42:53] sphery: everyone seems to think zfs is something special
[23:42:57] blinki: kfreebsd didn't work for me as of 6.0.1, installer cant install boot loader
[23:43:03] Beirdo: sphery: it is :)
[23:43:06] blinki: ok, skip the debate on zfs
[23:43:11] sphery: I've never really cared what file system I had--as long as it was sane
[23:43:20] blinki: snapshots on root
[23:43:28] Beirdo: zfs is... raid + lvm + filesystem
[23:43:37] blinki: I'll pastebin the error backendis failing with?
[23:43:39] Beirdo: essentially
[23:43:51] sphery: yeah, but raid + lvm aren't necessary for mythtv, IMHO
[23:44:02] Beirdo: true.
[23:44:15] Beirdo: but for general fileserver type use, very nice
[23:44:20] sphery: anyway, I'm more of a keep-it-simple-so-I-can't-mess-it-up type of person
[23:44:22] Beirdo: unfortunately... not GPL
[23:44:37] sphery: (which I guess makes me the stupid in the KISS principle)
[23:44:43] Beirdo: heh
[23:44:56] Beirdo: wow. our mail queue got down below 200
[23:45:05] sphery: yeah, I can see using something like zfs for a general-purpose file server
[23:45:18] blinki: http://pastebin.com/kE47VBDg
[23:45:38] sphery: and since it seems blinki is looking for non-mythtv-tv stuff, my "not necessary for mythtv" argument holds no water
[23:45:42] blinki: this is after adding a dvb "dummy" device, to get it past that error
[23:45:57] Beirdo: looks like you aren't done configuring yet
[23:45:59] blinki: uh, I'm here for mythtv support
[23:46:06] sphery: blinki: you have to have full-fledged tuner
[23:46:14] blinki: I don't have one on gentoo
[23:46:15] sphery: that means capture card, video source, and at least one channel
[23:46:19] blinki: so why would that be true?
[23:46:26] sphery: it can be a dummy--if set up properly
[23:46:37] Beirdo: the dummy device is fine, but you need to set it up as if it were a full card
[23:46:41] sphery: but yours isn't ("Error: No channel sources defined in the database")
[23:46:42] blinki: alright, so the solution is to just examine the db on the gentoo box?
[23:46:52] sphery: no, the solution is to finish mythtv-setup for the box
[23:46:55] blinki: oh ok
[23:47:01] blinki: so it's not complete
[23:47:04] sphery: right
[23:47:07] blinki: (i've only installed it once)
[23:47:10] Beirdo: which is why I said:
[23:47:11] sphery: looks like you did capture card part
[23:47:15] Beirdo: looks like you aren't done configuring yet
[23:47:15] blinki: this being the second apparently incomplete time
[23:47:20] sphery: but then didn't do video sources or input connections
[23:47:25] blinki: sweet, thanks
[23:47:28] blinki: bbiab
[23:47:36] sphery: (and, if you're doing a dummy card, you have to manually create a channel, using a channel change script of /bin/true)
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[23:49:47] wagnerrp: Beirdo: eh?
[23:50:21] Beirdo: he's trying to do FreeBSD backend, but the issue is non-complete setup (so far)
[23:50:58] wagnerrp: ah, right...
[23:51:12] wagnerrp: blinki: the problem with freebsd is lack of tuner support
[23:51:24] wagnerrp: mythtv requires at least one tuner on the system
[23:51:37] wagnerrp: and on freebsd, youre really limited to the HDHR and IPTV tuners
[23:51:52] wagnerrp: so either you need one of those, or you need a slave backend with tuners
[23:52:03] wagnerrp: and even then, the tunerless master is not an officially supported setup
[23:59:22] blinki: ok, so there's no rows in mythconverg.capturecard on gentoo either.
[23:59:47] wagnerrp: mythtv will not run without defined capture inputs

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