| Monday, April 11th, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:01:44] | Beirdo: | gonna need a debug build :) |
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| [00:08:41] | wagnerrp: | sphery: what makes you think thats a mythsystem thing? |
| [00:10:10] | sphery: | wagnerrp: well, it was a unscientific guess based on some of the other threads |
| [00:10:25] | sphery: | but it may well be jobqueue thread stuff |
| [00:10:49] | Beirdo: | far more likely to be a borked thread conversion |
| [00:10:59] | wagnerrp: | im thinking ProcessRequestThread in mainserver is getting fouled up |
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| [00:11:49] | sphery: | that makes sense with the log |
| [00:12:10] | sphery: | more than anything, I was trying to think of things that have changed, recently |
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| [00:13:28] | Beirdo: | :) |
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| [00:13:42] | Beirdo: | give me another hour or so and I can try to track it down |
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| [00:13:53] | Beirdo: | but a debug build will make it much easier |
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| [02:33:56] | sphery: | heh, just saw a commercials for LG's new passive-glasses 3D TVs |
| [02:34:38] | Beirdo: | watching Top Gear... when they made a convertable from a mini-van |
| [02:34:40] | sphery: | At least they're admitting that active glasses are a bad idea... Now if only they'd admit the same about 3D TV. |
| [02:34:58] | [R]: | we need non glasses tvs |
| [02:35:07] | sphery: | even that way, 3D is a bad idea |
| [02:35:16] | sphery: | if I wanted 3D, I'd go outside |
| [02:35:19] | [R]: | lol |
| [02:35:27] | Beirdo: | whoah |
| [02:35:29] | [R]: | the inside is 3d too... |
| [02:35:30] | [R]: | :P |
| [02:35:31] | Beirdo: | out..side?! |
| [02:35:33] | sphery: | heh |
| [02:35:48] | sphery: | I just see 3D TV as being abused and distracting from the stories/point of the shows |
| [02:36:09] | sphery: | especially since--at home--you don't have a field-of-view screen, and edges of screens + 3D do not mix |
| [02:36:09] | Beirdo: | yeah, because we all know the shows have no point anyways :) |
| [02:36:14] | sphery: | heh |
| [02:36:17] | Beirdo: | they are trying to distract us |
| [02:36:46] | sphery: | Hey, can't say that about my Supernatural... Its point is to stay on TV, regardless of the fact that only I and a few other people watch it. |
| [02:36:57] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:41:27] | mycoDA: | seriously – passive 3d screens have hit consumer mainstram????? |
| [02:41:31] | mycoDA: | SWEEEEEET |
| [02:42:03] | wagnerrp: | passive polarized |
| [02:42:06] | wagnerrp: | not completely passive |
| [02:42:20] | mycoDA: | i know |
| [02:42:26] | wagnerrp: | although completely passive has hit consumer mainstream too, in the 3DS |
| [02:42:37] | mycoDA: | ? |
| [02:43:05] | mycoDA: | true passive hasnt got past a point where it is too locationally sensitive to be useful in the consumer mainstram |
| [02:43:14] | wagnerrp: | the 3DS uses a diffraction grating to project two different images to your eyes |
| [02:43:24] | wagnerrp: | and yes, it is very locationally sensitive |
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| [02:44:03] | mycoDA: | polarised 3d (is in the movies) isnt (apart from the wholl get sick if ur in a really bad spot thing lol) |
| [02:44:15] | mycoDA: | (as in the |
| [02:44:45] | wagnerrp: | more like the... youll get sick because the movie is playing tricks with your brain instead of showing 3D |
| [02:45:10] | wagnerrp: | you get one chunk of information from separation, another from focus |
| [02:45:15] | wagnerrp: | and they conflict, makes you sick |
| [02:45:20] | mycoDA: | if ur in a spot that is way off where it is generating a 3d image for u WILL get sick |
| [02:45:41] | wagnerrp: | its no different from the sick you get from disparity between your vision and inner ear |
| [02:45:50] | mycoDA: | uhuh |
| [02:46:26] | wagnerrp: | youre getting two different cues that should never happen, your brain says WTF, and you vomit |
| [02:46:35] | mycoDA: | yup |
| [02:47:11] | mycoDA: | tho the way off axis close in thing is another trigger – is just an impossible set of distances even before focus |
| [02:47:12] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, true passive 3D: http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110321 |
| [02:47:29] | wagnerrp: | the moment extended use of '3D' stops making you queasy is the moment i never want to be on the same highway as you |
| [02:48:00] | mycoDA: | lol |
| [02:48:36] | mycoDA: | i cant even see those daft magic eye pictures |
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| [02:49:00] | mycoDA: | my eyes just refuse to separate focus and 3d positioning |
| [02:49:16] | ** wagnerrp makes of off comment about the easter bunny ** | |
| [02:49:48] | ** mycoDA suspects presence of 747s ** | |
| [02:50:36] | wagnerrp: | 747s? |
| [02:51:58] | mycoDA: | gone over my head like a |
| [02:52:27] | wagnerrp: | im talking about the guy over there, hes in a suit |
| [02:52:43] | mycoDA: | kk |
| [02:53:02] | mycoDA: | feels better now lol |
| [02:53:14] | wagnerrp: | its a travesty that you have no idea what im talking about |
| [02:54:01] | mycoDA: | webcam? lol |
| [02:54:08] | wagnerrp: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDoC8BhtUyo |
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| [02:55:27] | mycoDA: | what movie is that? |
| [02:55:34] | wagnerrp: | mallrats |
| [02:55:34] | mycoDA: | vague recognition |
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| [02:56:19] | mycoDA: | so need to watch the rest of that 'series' |
| [02:56:54] | mycoDA: | in my defense, i have seen several lol |
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| [03:31:46] | sphery: | wagnerrp: So, now it doesn't even require any special software. CSI: Miami just did an "enhance" (by zooming) of a cell-phone-received MMS on an iPhone to get a perfect image of an accomplice's reflection on a window. |
| [03:32:48] | sphery: | I remember when it took a Microsoft Surface table, special CSI software, and a computer-forensics expert to do that... |
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| [03:33:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | you're not supposed to notice that. you're supposed to be distracted by all the brady-bunch style edits where they have 4 or 9 different scenes playing on the screen at the same time. |
| [03:33:48] | sphery: | heh |
| [03:33:53] | sphery: | yeah, those are pretty annoying, too |
| [03:33:55] | mycoDA: | roflmao |
| [03:34:10] | wagnerrp: | except when they did it in super troopers |
| [03:34:24] | wagnerrp: | of course in super troopers, one of the panels was a man f**king a bear |
| [03:34:54] | kisak: | well said wagnerrp |
| [03:35:04] | sphery: | I loved how today they were looking for an escaped convict--whose picture they had--in an arena, and rather than walk around looking for the guy whose face they know, they looked for the name on the security guard badge he stole. |
| [03:35:21] | mycoDA: | did it on clevland – every1 sees how retarded it is now |
| [03:35:33] | sphery: | because 16pt font is so much easier to see than a face |
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| [03:46:42] | wagnerrp: | sphery: this seems like more of a game warden thing to me |
| [03:47:20] | sphery: | game warden? |
| [03:48:01] | wagnerrp: | yes, they handle things to do with wildlife |
| [03:48:26] | sphery: | what seems more like that? csi: miami? |
| [03:50:21] | ** wagnerrp wonders when sphery will read a couple lines up ** | |
| [03:51:19] | sphery: | super troopers reference? |
| [03:51:23] | sphery: | I never saw it |
| [03:51:48] | wagnerrp: | really... |
| [03:52:17] | sphery: | ah, found the quote |
| [03:53:05] | wagnerrp: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qz1sXJsCWw |
| [03:53:21] | sphery: | yeah, that movie doesn't sound like my kind of show |
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| [03:54:28] | HaSH: | hello all. anyone have a qip71002 from verizon? |
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| [03:57:03] | HaSH: | i want to see if i can set it to output to the same resolution as from the cable co. i only see options in it to force set it to like 480p,720p,1080i....i dont see anyway to have it auto adjust |
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| [03:59:33] | kisak: | I use at least one QIP7100 2 |
| [04:00:08] | HaSH: | ah. have u ever played around with the video outputsetting? |
| [04:00:29] | kisak: | nope |
| [04:00:58] | HaSH: | ah ok then. im hoping its not impossible |
| [04:01:58] | kisak: | I haven't had any concerns with the automagic method |
| [04:02:52] | HaSH: | well i have a hdpvr and id like to capture at the native resolution. some hd stations are 720 which get upconverted by the box to 1080 |
| [04:04:03] | [R]: | there should be either a) an option for "native" b) a way to do an "advanced" config that lets you set all the output resolutions to use |
| [04:04:27] | kisak: | ah, well I'm too poor to justify getting a HD PVR and the firewire link works on all the critical channels |
| [04:04:28] | HaSH: | yea. under the normal options i dont see anyway to |
| [04:04:52] | HaSH: | kisak ah yea. i had great luck with firewire as well |
| [04:05:01] | HaSH: | verizon rocks for a cable co hehe |
| [04:05:15] | HaSH: | i had tons of channels in hd via fw |
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| [04:05:45] | HaSH: | i wonder if there is a advanced options menu im not seeing |
| [04:06:42] | [R]: | $5 says a million people have asked and gotten this question answered on google |
| [04:07:16] | HaSH: | yea im sure...but i dont see it yet. |
| [04:07:21] | kisak: | we have a million mythtv users? |
| [04:07:42] | [R]: | kisak: this question has absolutely nothing to do with mythtv |
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| [04:08:36] | kisak: | oh, I missed that twist in the conversation |
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| [04:09:51] | kisak: | I wouldn't be surprised if verizon surpressed any advanced option menu so that there would be less to troubleshoot |
| [04:09:54] | HaSH: | its not directly mythtv question...but is related and the ppl in here are super smart with tv related hardware :) |
| [04:09:57] | wagnerrp: | the twist was there from the very beginning |
| [04:10:03] | wagnerrp: | hes wanting to know how to configure his cable box |
| [04:10:28] | HaSH: | kisak completly possible |
| [04:10:39] | HaSH: | the option menus do feel very dumbed down |
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| [04:58:07] | wagnerrp: | sphery: as part of this jobqueue thing, im ripping out all of the special handling of commflagging and transcoding |
| [04:58:28] | wagnerrp: | which means moving all that stuff into mythtranscode itself, which poses some other problems |
| [04:58:51] | wagnerrp: | if mythtranscode segfaults, there will be nothing to clean up after it |
| [05:00:11] | wagnerrp: | is that something that should be added to the housekeeper tasks? |
| [05:00:31] | wagnerrp: | additionally, that will mean a wrapper for external transcoders |
| [05:00:45] | wagnerrp: | now ive got a python stub on the wiki that will need to be expanded |
| [05:01:04] | wagnerrp: | im wondering if that would be better done in a proper Qt application, or even built into mythtranscode |
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| [05:19:02] | Beirdo: | la la la |
| [05:19:17] | Beirdo: | taxes filed. |
| [05:20:02] | mycoDA: | u blew up the IRS? |
| [05:20:23] | mycoDA: | genetically engineered a virus that hunts down anal retentives? |
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| [05:29:41] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [05:29:47] | wagnerrp: | sphery: also, i dont see any commits to the effect that you have done so already |
| [05:30:04] | wagnerrp: | so im converting mythtranscode and mythcommflag over to the command line parser |
| [05:30:13] | Beirdo: | yay! |
| [05:30:20] | Beirdo: | consistency++ |
| [05:30:52] | wagnerrp: | yay, not hundreds of lines of garbage in main.cpp |
| [05:30:58] | Beirdo: | that too |
| [05:31:14] | Beirdo: | put all the garbage in one place so we can tweak em all at once :) |
| [05:31:40] | Beirdo: | I appreciate any attempt to use the DRY principle in this code |
| [05:31:51] | Beirdo: | (Don't Repeat Yourself) |
| [05:32:15] | wagnerrp: | heh... |
| [05:32:34] | Beirdo: | it's seriously called that in the Ruby/Rails world, BTW |
| [05:32:38] | wagnerrp: | i actually went and wrote a whole FileSystemInfo class... before looking deeper into the code and finding one already existed |
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| [05:32:55] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [05:33:17] | wagnerrp: | of course the existing class was a struct by any other definition |
| [05:33:29] | Beirdo: | but of course. |
| [05:33:51] | wagnerrp: | literally, it was just a class with a bunch of public vars and no methors |
| [05:35:16] | Beirdo: | heh. |
| [05:36:09] | wagnerrp: | is there a... uint128_t? |
| [05:36:35] | Beirdo: | haahahah. Not that I know of |
| [05:36:48] | wagnerrp: | hmmm... |
| [05:36:54] | wagnerrp: | were almost out of space for new options |
| [05:36:54] | Beirdo: | what would you possibly want that for? and IPv6 address? |
| [05:37:21] | wagnerrp: | you pass the options you want into the parser as a bitwise enum |
| [05:37:29] | Beirdo: | ewww |
| [05:37:44] | Beirdo: | we don't have 128 options, do we? |
| [05:37:50] | Beirdo: | or even > 64 |
| [05:38:21] | wagnerrp: | 35 currently |
| [05:38:44] | wagnerrp: | oh, i guess theres a couple more prepending zeros left out of these values |
| [05:38:57] | wagnerrp: | the way theyre walking up, we should only have room for another 5 |
| [05:39:24] | Beirdo: | if we have 35 now, we should have room for 29 more |
| [05:41:12] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i was looking at the numbers wrong |
| [05:41:25] | wagnerrp: | theyre only 10 characters, 40-bit |
| [05:41:41] | Beirdo: | hehe, K |
| [05:41:45] | Beirdo: | makes sense |
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| [05:48:40] | wagnerrp: | why do we support mythcommflag operating sans database? |
| [05:48:51] | Beirdo: | ummm |
| [05:48:56] | mycoDA: | :S |
| [05:49:05] | Beirdo: | no flippin clue, but someone might know |
| [05:49:26] | mycoDA: | can it output the flag data to a cultist that could be used by something else? |
| [05:50:00] | wagnerrp: | yeah, ive seen a couple user scripts which pull the data manually on the command line |
| [05:50:03] | wagnerrp: | but what for? |
| [05:50:22] | wagnerrp: | why not just run it, and pull the information from the database |
| [05:50:42] | Beirdo: | that's fine |
| [05:50:52] | wagnerrp: | especially once the recordedfile stuff goes in, and videos get proper support |
| [05:50:55] | Beirdo: | but you still need the db for that |
| [05:51:40] | wagnerrp: | i mean was it an old old request from the commskip guy? |
| [05:52:02] | Beirdo: | I think you'd have to find who put it in and ask them :) |
| [05:55:25] | Beirdo: | hahahahah |
| [05:55:35] | Beirdo: | nice to see James May can't backup a trailer either |
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| [05:58:20] | mycoDA: | none of em can |
| [05:58:32] | mycoDA: | u on the caravan episode or? |
| [05:58:53] | mycoDA: | beirdo? |
| [05:59:06] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [05:59:11] | mycoDA: | the tractor episode is kinda epic for reversing snafu |
| [05:59:18] | Beirdo: | it's pretty fun to watch |
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| [05:59:30] | Beirdo: | my dad's excellent at backing up trailers |
| [05:59:33] | mycoDA: | whats the yank version like? |
| [05:59:50] | Beirdo: | I never did figure it out, I'd give up and get him to do it |
| [05:59:54] | Beirdo: | worse |
| [05:59:55] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo, sphery: other options... would we want to keep all the get/put/clear/gencutlist stuff? or force external utilities to pull from the database (*cough* use the bindings) |
| [05:59:56] | mycoDA: | lol |
| [06:00:32] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: check to make sure that the options used in nuvexport are there or handled :) |
| [06:01:15] | Beirdo: | I don't mind doing it differently, of course, but that's the only thing I'm worried about |
| [06:01:43] | wagnerrp: | eew... all over the place |
| [06:01:47] | Beirdo: | it's good to have the taxes done |
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| [06:02:09] | Beirdo: | even better to be getting a pile o' cash back |
| [06:02:17] | wagnerrp: | i wouldnt mind moving the frameserver duties of mythtranscode elsewhere either |
| [06:02:31] | Beirdo: | frameserver? |
| [06:02:37] | wagnerrp: | fifo |
| [06:02:39] | Beirdo: | you mean the fifo stuff? |
| [06:02:46] | Beirdo: | well, where else? |
| [06:02:56] | wagnerrp: | mythfifo/mythframeserver/... |
| [06:03:32] | Beirdo: | that just sounds like a way to have more repeated code rather than less, but it might be worth it in the end |
| [06:06:30] | wagnerrp: | things like --nice, --hogcpu, --sleep... seems like stuff that should be handled by the jobqueue code, or the profile definition |
| [06:08:04] | wagnerrp: | things in mythcommflag like --all/start/end seem like they would be so rarely used, it shouldnt be an option |
| [06:08:17] | wagnerrp: | perhaps something to put into the GUI later |
| [06:09:24] | mycoDA: | would be rather cool if it could output a cutlist in a way something like avidemux could use |
| [06:09:41] | Beirdo: | --all is used at times |
| [06:10:03] | Beirdo: | --start/--end is used as an option to choose a recording |
| [06:10:17] | Beirdo: | I see no reason why we'd necessarily want to lise that |
| [06:10:22] | Beirdo: | lose |
| [06:10:32] | Beirdo: | but I typically -use --file |
| [06:10:45] | wagnerrp: | because you wouldnt lose it, but move it out of the command line and that application |
| [06:10:54] | wagnerrp: | move it into the backend |
| [06:11:04] | wagnerrp: | with options to batch queue a lot of recordings |
| [06:11:14] | Beirdo: | that application is used non-queued quite often |
| [06:11:33] | Beirdo: | to fix borked things... like the --rebuild |
| [06:11:55] | mycoDA: | reckon adding support for avidemux would save people learning another edit app effectively, and be a quicker way to mark the rest of the cutting |
| [06:12:13] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: got some docs on the avidemux cut format? |
| [06:12:23] | Beirdo: | I used to |
| [06:12:37] | Beirdo: | I had a mpeg2->mpeg2 cut using avidemux |
| [06:12:40] | mycoDA: | can hunt it for you |
| [06:13:08] | Beirdo: | I think that could be a "future" addition though |
| [06:13:22] | wagnerrp: | it should be fairly trivial to pull a cutlist out of the bindings, and convert it to any frame-based format |
| [06:13:30] | wagnerrp: | time based formats will be a LOT more work |
| [06:13:42] | Beirdo: | yeah, avidemux would be a decent output format for a cutlist |
| [06:14:01] | wagnerrp: | since framerates are variable, you would need to actually process the video to convert into a time-based format |
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| [06:14:33] | Beirdo: | which (if we did it) would make everything a lot easier |
| [06:14:39] | Beirdo: | especially seeking time-based |
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| [06:15:08] | Beirdo: | which I've mentioned several times, but so far, that ain't what we are thinking of doing :) |
| [06:16:17] | Beirdo: | it's a significant undertaking, so I'm not surprised :) |
| [06:17:36] | wagnerrp: | so you would load your video, and then do a sequence of 'app.addSegment(<videoid>, <segment start>, <segment length>)' |
| [06:17:56] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp, I wrote a patch to produce avidemux files a long time ago |
| [06:18:01] | iamlindoro: | should still be in trac somewhere |
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| [06:18:24] | iamlindoro: | (direct from mythcommflag, that is) |
| [06:18:32] | Beirdo: | mine might be in the history of nuvexport somewhere too |
| [06:18:36] | wagnerrp: | 5809 it ssems |
| [06:18:52] | Beirdo: | mind you, that was... years ago's avidemux |
| [06:18:52] | iamlindoro: | Was a long time ago, not likely to be pretty, but it did work |
| [06:20:22] | wagnerrp: | yeah, back to the reason it was closed, 'it would probably be best if things like this were in a contrib script rather than hardcoded into the source' |
| [06:20:36] | wagnerrp: | which is just what im suggesting |
| [06:21:07] | wagnerrp: | get rid off all this additional stuff tacked onto these programs, for some reason other than performing a commflag, or performing a transcode |
| [06:22:08] | wagnerrp: | add the functionality to pull that information through the bindings, add perl/python command line utilities to generate that stuff for bash users |
| [06:22:32] | Beirdo: | yeah, that could be good |
| [06:23:09] | mycoDA: | looks like it is time based :S only just a 1st glance tho. also looks like xbmc and mplayer support the edl format it uses which may be handy for passing commskip to them? |
| [06:23:24] | mycoDA: | Edit decision list |
| [06:24:43] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: avidemux is frame based, see the addSegment command... http://www.avidemux.org/admWiki/doku.php?id=using:scripting |
| [06:26:09] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: EDLs could be done, but as mentioned, its non trivial to convert to timecodes for all cases |
| [06:26:25] | mycoDA: | yeah |
| [06:26:39] | wagnerrp: | most cases, you could identify the framerate as 23.976/25/29.97/..., and convert directly |
| [06:26:44] | Beirdo: | it's something that will need some serious thinking, etc. |
| [06:26:54] | mycoDA: | edl was the 1st thing i came across lookin for avidemux cutlisting |
| [06:26:54] | wagnerrp: | but if you have video with variable framerate, youre nosed |
| [06:26:56] | wagnerrp: | hosed |
| [06:27:30] | wagnerrp: | for instance, a station that swaps between 720p60 and 1080i30 |
| [06:28:21] | mycoDA: | ouch |
| [06:28:40] | mycoDA: | nopt sure if avidemux still uses edl :S |
| [06:28:54] | wagnerrp: | i know cable stations over here do exactly that |
| [06:29:08] | wagnerrp: | because early versions of the HDPVR drivers would barf when a cable box changed resolutions |
| [06:35:51] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you were the one who wanted these converted to the shared commandlineparser, so presumably youve had considerable thought put into this |
| [06:36:28] | wagnerrp: | my biggest concern, and the reason for wanting to remove all these options, is because there are a lot of new arguments they are going to require, and weve only got 64 to use up |
| [06:37:43] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: back to your original comment about wanting to batch rebuild the seektables |
| [06:38:01] | wagnerrp: | in the plan, you would simply define two separate jobs |
| [06:38:12] | wagnerrp: | one that ran the commflagger normally, and one that just rebuilt the tables |
| [06:38:36] | wagnerrp: | so you would just create a playlist, or otherwise select a group, and 'run job on these recordings' |
| [06:39:09] | wagnerrp: | rather than doing them all sequentially, the jobqueue would parallelize it as it saw fit |
| [06:40:44] | Beirdo: | this sounds good for the average use, but potentially painful for debugging |
| [06:41:58] | Beirdo: | and I wouldn't let the 64bits of flags limit it necessarily, we can always redo how flags are handled if we need to. I doubt we'd be using more than 64 though in the near future |
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| [06:42:05] | Beirdo: | but what do I know :) |
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| [06:44:34] | Beirdo: | anyways, I'm sure we have far too many possible command-line args, removing piles is likely a good idea ;) |
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| [08:44:32] | justinh: | weird. shows I delete en mass keep coming back |
| [08:44:39] | justinh: | and I don't mean are re-recorded |
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| [08:45:25] | justinh: | I think I've deleted The Wire – about 60 recordings, three times now |
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| [09:13:35] | croppa is now known as croppa_ | |
| [09:13:43] | croppa_ is now known as croppa | |
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| [09:16:23] | deegan: | I get this error "Audio putput device is set to pulseaudio but pulseaudio support is not compiled in!" when i try to launch mythtv and i'm curious about where this error is coming from because i dont have PulseAudio installed, using Slackware and KDE. |
| [09:16:37] | deegan: | I tried to add --disable-pulseaudio to the configure line but that didnt do any good. |
| [09:17:01] | justinh: | the clue in the message is about the *setting* |
| [09:18:15] | justinh: | change the *setting* |
| [09:19:08] | deegan: | Well there's another problem, mythfrontend segfaults after giving that error. |
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| [09:20:10] | deegan: | "SIGSEV (Segmentation fault) @ 0 (0)" |
| [09:20:30] | justinh: | heh |
| [09:21:06] | deegan: | I'm pretty baffled by it because I'm using the same compiled package for my backend and i can even do remote X11 with putty and run a (laggy) frontend session from my backend if i want to. |
| [09:21:42] | justinh: | you had no PA support built in, and for some reason mythfrontend is trying to use PA... |
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| [09:22:33] | justinh: | you could probably try overriding the relevant setting with mythfrontend -O Settingname=value |
| [09:22:52] | justinh: | but not being a user of 0.24 I don't know what the right setting name or value would be |
| [09:23:13] | deegan: | huh, well it's wierd stuff alright. |
| [09:23:47] | deegan: | this is "bleeding edge" too, but it's running fine on my backend. |
| [09:24:01] | justinh: | I'm not running > 0.23-fixes :-) |
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| [09:55:28] | justinh: | ooo. I can have a Phenom of the same speed for like £3 more, as I initially thought. May as well |
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| [10:25:16] | eamon__: | CanI watch live TV via mythTV? |
| [10:26:18] | justinh: | in theory, yes |
| [10:27:23] | justinh: | *subject to using a tuner device which works in linux, for the tv service available in your area |
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| [10:30:54] | eamon__: | justinh: someone told me that you have to record the show before you can watch it in mythTV. I take it this is not true? |
| [10:31:11] | justinh: | livetv IS a recording |
| [10:31:27] | eamon__: | what do you mean? |
| [10:31:37] | justinh: | I mean that live tv is an instant recording in mythtv |
| [10:31:53] | eamon__: | does it save the file to the hard drive? |
| [10:31:59] | justinh: | you go into 'watch tv' via the menu and it starts recording. you watch the recording 'live' |
| [10:32:41] | eamon__: | oh right, so the 'recording' bit is transparent. the same as watching it live on the set top box? |
| [10:32:55] | justinh: | not quite |
| [10:33:03] | justinh: | there's latency due to buffering |
| [10:33:44] | justinh: | also if you're using an external device and script to change channels on external hardware (i.e. an IR blaster with a set top box and a channel changing script) that adds delays too |
| [10:33:47] | eamon__: | that's ok. Can I record two shows at the same time if my card has two tuners? |
| [10:33:57] | justinh: | that depends |
| [10:34:17] | justinh: | some dual tuner cards are only 'hybrid' devices where only one can be used at a time |
| [10:34:32] | eamon__: | say if I were to buy the hauppauge 2250 |
| [10:34:40] | eamon__: | I'm assuming yes? |
| [10:34:49] | eamon__: | Or watch and record at the same time |
| [10:35:19] | justinh: | yes |
| [10:35:52] | justinh: | but I don't know if the analogue portion of the 2250 work in linux.. I don't keep tabs on tuners anymore |
| [10:36:00] | mycoDA: | does |
| [10:36:00] | eamon__: | See the way the hauppauge 2250 can two ariel inputs, does that mean I have to split the cable before I can use both tuners? Or can both tuners run on the one input? |
| [10:36:07] | mycoDA: | with a recent enuf kernel |
| [10:36:26] | justinh: | "Built-in antenna splitter allows you to make one connection to an ATSC antenna but watch and record up to 2 channels." |
| [10:36:32] | justinh: | from the hauppauge 2250 webpage |
| [10:36:40] | eamon__: | cool |
| [10:36:47] | justinh: | "Built-in cable TV splitter allows you to make one connection to cable TV but watch and record 2 TV programs at the same time." |
| [10:36:54] | justinh: | !url tuners |
| [10:36:54] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
| [10:37:05] | justinh: | see if it's supported in linux there |
| [10:37:16] | mycoDA: | it is justinh |
| [10:37:26] | eamon__: | yeah so the two inputs is really only if you want two completely different inputs going into the card |
| [10:37:27] | mycoDA: | kernellabs built the driver |
| [10:38:35] | justinh: | http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppau . . . alog_support |
| [10:39:01] | mycoDA: | only need to add the firmware to the distro now – is mailined |
| [10:39:11] | justinh: | eamon__: unless you have analogue cable, there's no need |
| [10:39:29] | justinh: | since there's no analogue TV broadcast over the air over there anymore :) |
| [10:39:36] | eamon__: | I have analogue TV |
| [10:39:50] | justinh: | hang on.. you're in Ireland? |
| [10:39:52] | eamon__: | with aril |
| [10:39:55] | eamon__: | yeah |
| [10:40:01] | justinh: | you don't want ATSC digital tuners |
| [10:40:07] | eamon__: | i meant 2200 sorry |
| [10:40:08] | mycoDA: | lol no |
| [10:40:26] | mycoDA: | no idea on it |
| [10:40:41] | eamon__: | the 2200 is the DBT-V version |
| [10:40:57] | ** eamon__ knows that acronym is wrong... ** | |
| [10:41:07] | mycoDA: | the Sony PlayTV is heavily recommended over here, but is digital only |
| [10:41:17] | mycoDA: | cheap as, works well |
| [10:41:18] | justinh: | looks like only digital (DVB-T) works in linux for that card right now |
| [10:41:26] | mycoDA: | lot of peeps importing them from UK\ |
| [10:41:45] | mycoDA: | (am in australia) |
| [10:41:50] | eamon__: | Sony PlayTV interesting. Can you watch and record different channels with it? |
| [10:41:57] | mycoDA: | uhuh |
| [10:42:02] | justinh: | expensive for a simple arse USB TV tuner |
| [10:42:09] | justinh: | and it's USB |
| [10:42:14] | mycoDA: | dual ntuner |
| [10:42:20] | eamon__: | eeugh usb |
| [10:42:27] | mycoDA: | usb has advantages |
| [10:42:29] | eamon__: | still if it's cheap |
| [10:42:34] | mycoDA: | theoretically |
| [10:42:47] | eamon__: | How much is it do you know? |
| [10:42:53] | mycoDA: | one of em is you can take the tuner to the aerial to a degree |
| [10:42:57] | justinh: | too much for a USB dual tuner |
| [10:42:57] | mycoDA: | about what? |
| [10:43:09] | mycoDA: | not for one that works justinh |
| [10:43:19] | eamon__: | do you know how much it costs? |
| [10:43:34] | justinh: | Amazon want £40 for it |
| [10:44:08] | justinh: | I've paid £25 for a dual DVB-T USB tuner at Maplin ffs |
| [10:44:08] | eamon__: | that's cheap. What is a good model of dual tuner card? |
| [10:44:16] | justinh: | a good model is not a USB one |
| [10:44:32] | eamon__: | yeah, that's why I say card |
| [10:45:02] | mycoDA: | bull justinh |
| [10:45:04] | mycoDA: | sorry |
| [10:45:05] | justinh: | YMMV |
| [10:45:16] | mycoDA: | there is no reason a usb cant be good |
| [10:45:22] | mycoDA: | NONE |
| [10:45:22] | justinh: | tuners vary greatly in quality, even cards of the same model number from the same manufacturer |
| [10:45:27] | eamon__: | I think a card would be more reliable for sure. But that's just my preconceived notion |
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| [10:46:06] | mycoDA: | there are even several cards that take advantage of ur notion eamon__ they but 2 usb tuners and a usb hub on a card and charge for it |
| [10:46:07] | justinh: | chipsets change etc etc etc |
| [10:46:12] | mycoDA: | some of em are great |
| [10:46:35] | justinh: | so are you after only dvb-t tuning? |
| [10:46:56] | justinh: | if so, there'd be no point investing in a 'hybrid' device |
| [10:46:57] | eamon__: | yeah |
| [10:47:22] | mycoDA: | theoretically having a device external can onvey some sheilding from the 'noise' of the pc |
| [10:47:25] | justinh: | also depends whether you need PCIe or not. choices there are still pretty limiting |
| [10:47:25] | eamon__: | the swiitchover is coming soon so I might as well go dvb-t only |
| [10:47:28] | mycoDA: | *convey |
| [10:47:36] | eamon__: | any kind of slot will do |
| [10:48:43] | mycoDA: | well eamon – why do you think quite a few australians are importing Play TV units from the UK? |
| [10:48:49] | justinh: | you're lucky to even get a regular PCI slot on boards these days |
| [10:49:57] | eamon__: | I think my board has them |
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| [10:50:09] | justinh: | as for the cards with USB tuners & a bridge chip onboard – they' |
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| [10:50:28] | justinh: | they've been *notorious* for plaguing users with niggly problems for a long time now |
| [10:50:32] | eamon__: | mycoDA: I just looked up the playTV and it seems you need to buy a PlayStation 3 to get it to work |
| [10:50:44] | mycoDA: | nopr |
| [10:50:44] | eamon__: | which I don't have :-P |
| [10:50:46] | mycoDA: | *nope |
| [10:50:47] | justinh: | i.e. the Hauppauge Nova-T500 |
| [10:50:50] | mycoDA: | works with linux |
| [10:51:02] | eamon__: | oh really? |
| [10:51:06] | justinh: | but those have (apparently) now been solved |
| [10:51:09] | justinh: | ish |
| [10:51:17] | mycoDA: | yep – well solved |
| [10:51:19] | eamon__: | I see no mention of it in the MythTV wiki mycoDA |
| [10:51:34] | mycoDA: | is on the OCAU myth thread |
| [10:51:41] | justinh: | as for why so many Aus users have been importing the PLayTV junk – maybe Aus retailers suck at stocking decent tuner cards :P |
| [10:51:53] | mycoDA: | and dont look at the mythtv site eamon – look at linuxtv |
| [10:51:59] | mycoDA: | mythtv doesnt support tuners |
| [10:52:10] | eamon__: | oh right |
| [10:52:16] | justinh: | oh, the 300 post long 'mythtv help' thread on the overclockers forum. LOL |
| [10:52:28] | justinh: | who wants to read threads 300 pages long? :-O |
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| [10:52:37] | mycoDA: | http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Sony_Pl . . . _tuner_DVB-T |
| [10:54:31] | mycoDA: | should just plug and go on any moder distro |
| [10:55:14] | justinh: | hmm reading that, if what is said there is true about the case being shielded it'll probably be way better than the majority of USB tuners I've seen |
| [10:56:10] | mycoDA: | there ARE quite a few decent ones |
| [10:56:52] | justinh: | depends. in the race to make their stuff small some manufacturers have forgone the shielding |
| [10:56:53] | mycoDA: | i am using 3 Asus U3100Mini tuners (same chipset as playtv), 40+ k from the transmitter |
| [10:57:06] | justinh: | s/small/small\ and\/or\ cheap |
| [10:57:08] | mycoDA: | no hassle since the fixes years ago |
| [10:57:45] | mycoDA: | (tho i thought the issue was back recently when i had a hub go bodgy on me rofl) |
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| [10:58:06] | justinh: | got an avermedia dual USB thing I've had no problems with in testing – that hasn't got *any* shielding |
| [10:58:25] | justinh: | great if the signal is ok & there's no interference source near it, I suppose |
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| [10:58:51] | justinh: | maybe silicon tuners are much more immune to induced RF... |
| [10:59:27] | justinh: | certainly more selective than their old fashioned counterparts :D |
| [11:00:21] | mycoDA: | which type? air gap capacitors? lol |
| [11:00:54] | ** justinh adds the .au TLD to the list again ** | |
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| [14:12:26] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: the second input on the HVR-2200 is an FM tuner |
| [14:13:04] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: if you want that advantage of a USB tuner, you would be far better off using a HDHomeRun |
| [14:13:27] | wagnerrp: | of course even when you buy PCI, theres a fair bit of tuner cards that are really just a USB tuner with a bridge chip |
| [14:13:49] | wagnerrp: | oh, seems you mention that |
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| [14:44:29] | mhedi: | hi |
| [14:44:50] | mhedi: | I have a problem when I cross-compiled Mythtv |
| [14:44:58] | mhedi: | ./configure --prefix=/home/mhedi/install/intel-rootfs-1.4/ --libdir-name=/home/mhedi/install/intel-rootfs-1.4/usr/lib/ --sysinclude=/home/mhedi/install/intel-rootfs-1.4/usr/local/include/ --disable-yasm --disable-audio-jack --disable-audio-pulseoutput --disable-joystick-menu --disable-firewire --disable-v4l --disable-ivtv --disable-hdpvr --disable-xrandr --disable-xv --disable-xvmc --disable-xvmcw --enable-crystalhd --disable-opengl-video --disable-quart |
| [14:44:58] | mhedi: | z-video --disable-opengl-vsync --disable-x11 cc=i686-cm-linux-gcc cxx=i686-cm-linux-g++ --disable-opengl-vsync --disable-dvb --disable-dvb --disable-audio-oss --ld=i686-cm-linux-ld --disable-amd3dnow --disable-amd3dnowext --arch=x86 --target-os=linux --enable-cross-compile |
| [14:44:58] | mhedi: | ERROR! You must have FreeType installed to compile MythTV. |
| [14:45:20] | mhedi: | I had already cross compiled freetype |
| [14:45:52] | FabriceMG (FabriceMG!~MARTIN@217.112.59.207) has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | |
| [14:47:09] | mhedi: | help me please |
| [14:50:36] | sphery: | mhedi: you need to set your PATH to include the location into which the cross-compiled freetype's freetype-config script exists . Also, you should /never/ disable OSS on any Linux platform, so your above command will create a broken MythTV |
| [14:51:21] | sphery: | and most of the other --disable options will cause issues, inefficiencies, or failures |
| [14:51:40] | sphery: | best bet is to let configure figure out what you need and what you don't |
| [14:52:12] | ** wagnerrp prods sphery about backlog for mythcommandlineparser stuff ** | |
| [14:52:47] | sphery: | sphery: prods jamesba about the wrong channel stuff :) |
| [14:52:53] | sphery: | (yeah, I know he's not in here) |
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| [14:57:45] | mhedi: | sphery: when I'll add freetype-config in my PATH it can cause a confilit with freetype-config of my PC |
| [14:58:34] | wagnerrp: | what exactly are you trying to cross compile? 32-bit linux myth on a 64-bit linux machine? |
| [14:58:37] | sphery: | mhedi: well, you don't want to use freetype-config for your PC to cross compile |
| [14:58:54] | sphery: | remember PATH is per-shell, so only set it in the cross compile environment |
| [14:59:20] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yes, no database was for the guys who wanted mythcommflag with MythTV--but /after/ commskip was created and available |
| [14:59:34] | wagnerrp: | with all the stuff youre ripping out, you seem to be intentionally limiting yourself to opengl and crystalhd |
| [14:59:49] | wagnerrp: | 32-bit, underpowered so you dont want to compile, crystalhd.... AppleTV? |
| [15:00:04] | wagnerrp: | does the 7300 in an ATV have enough power to push the opengl video renderer? |
| [15:00:27] | sphery: | IMHO, it has absolutely no purpose and only results in bugs |
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| [15:00:46] | wagnerrp: | sphery: the bigger question... |
| [15:00:52] | sphery: | mhedi: yeah, IMHO, you're better off just using the underpowered system to compile |
| [15:00:59] | sphery: | wagnerrp: if you mean about the command-line options |
| [15:01:14] | wagnerrp: | in order to run this stuff through mythcommandlineparser, all those options will need to be added to that bitfield |
| [15:01:23] | wagnerrp: | of which there is limited space |
| [15:01:29] | sphery: | first, we should only include in MythCommandLineParser those options that are likely to be used by multiple apps (i.e. repeated)... Then have a 2nd-step parsing in main |
| [15:01:31] | wagnerrp: | meaning we should try to cut out as much of those as possible |
| [15:01:33] | sphery: | think mythfrontend does that |
| [15:01:43] | wagnerrp: | ah, i see |
| [15:01:50] | sphery: | second, if the 64-bit design is too limiting, we need to unlimit it :) |
| [15:02:17] | sphery: | and, yeah, I haven't yet done that conversion, but you're welcome to just leave it to me |
| [15:02:25] | sphery: | I will get to it when I split up mbe |
| [15:02:31] | wagnerrp: | i was reading the backend code as an example |
| [15:02:34] | sphery: | ahhh |
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| [15:03:00] | sphery: | as far as --end goes, if we still have that, we should probably remove that |
| [15:03:19] | sphery: | it's almost definitely a relic of the time when we used chanid/starttime/endtime for a PK |
| [15:03:29] | sphery: | I can get rid of it when we swap to new schema |
| [15:03:39] | sphery: | unless it makes it easier to get rid of it now |
| [15:04:12] | sphery: | (that's ideally one of those "standalone" commits so that it's seen separately and its reasoning can be found in the future) |
| [15:04:16] | wagnerrp: | well i can just remove the whole lot once i get the replacement utility set up in the backend web page |
| [15:04:20] | sphery: | I'm guessing we don't use --end anywhere |
| [15:04:31] | wagnerrp: | --allend, rather |
| [15:04:38] | wagnerrp: | -all/--allstart/--alend |
| [15:04:43] | sphery: | ahh, all end makes sense if we have --all |
| [15:04:58] | sphery: | I've always thought --all was annoying... that's what bash is for |
| [15:05:00] | sphery: | :) |
| [15:05:03] | wagnerrp: | its for specifying a range of jobs to run through sequentially |
| [15:05:08] | sphery: | right |
| [15:05:17] | sphery: | which I can easily do with a bash script |
| [15:05:29] | sphery: | and since all doesn't support all the options (like --buildindex and ...) |
| [15:05:48] | sphery: | I /do/ like the idea of making some of the arguments "pass through" |
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| [15:06:02] | sphery: | so that they're not mythtranscode options, but instead are job options |
| [15:06:02] | wagnerrp: | passthrough/ |
| [15:07:16] | wagnerrp: | oh, im talking about stuff like --honorcutlist, --inversecut, --passthrough... should all be handled by the transcoding profile |
| [15:07:31] | wagnerrp: | --audiotrack... dont know why we even have that one |
| [15:07:53] | sphery: | yeah, but I'm just saying that taking them out of mythtranscode makes sense |
| [15:08:06] | wagnerrp: | --recorderoptions... seems like more stuff that should be handled by the profile |
| [15:08:17] | sphery: | so if you still allow one-off runs of mythtranscode, then have some — type separator where everything after that goes to the job |
| [15:08:33] | sphery: | or, yeah, --recorderoptions makes sense (and is likely more intuitive) |
| [15:08:42] | wagnerrp: | oh, you mean the wrapper |
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| [15:09:00] | sphery: | not sure what I mean--not sure exactly how your design works :) |
| [15:09:10] | wagnerrp: | having mythtranscode function as a wrapper, to replace the special handling being removed from jobqueue |
| [15:09:15] | sphery: | speaking of which, you talked about cleanup if there's a crash... do we have that now? |
| [15:09:27] | sphery: | ah, I see |
| [15:09:48] | sphery: | so it's for calling the one-off jobs from the command line, but it just tells the job queue to do them |
| [15:10:04] | sphery: | and because mythtranscode doesn't stick around, there's nothing to clean up if it fails |
| [15:10:15] | wagnerrp: | no, it would be for transcoding using something other than mythtranscode |
| [15:10:19] | sphery: | clean up involves deleting fifos and .tmp files and ... |
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| [15:11:27] | wagnerrp: | in this case, im talking about stuff like ProgramInfo::SaveTranscodeStatus |
| [15:12:48] | sphery: | Oh, and FWIW, "--skipdb only causes bugs for us" = http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9515 |
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| [15:12:58] | sphery: | yet now people want to keep it |
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| [15:13:43] | sphery: | some non-user who wanted to run mythcommflag for his non-MythTV DVR on his Apple Mac OS box guilted danielk into putting it there |
| [15:13:45] | seeker: | Any opinions on a HP Proliant N36L as a backend? |
| [15:14:07] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ok, looking into SaveTranscodeStatus |
| [15:14:56] | wagnerrp: | sphery: basically, it just sets the transcoded flag in the program, so the frontend can display pretty pictures |
| [15:15:00] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ah, since it's handled by jobqueue, instead of mythtranscode |
| [15:15:15] | seeker: | Bah, only takes half height PCI cards, which I don't think the nova-t 500 I'd |
| [15:15:19] | seeker: | *is |
| [15:15:22] | sphery: | so, presumably, it's only run if we're executing a mythtranscode job, right? |
| [15:15:25] | wagnerrp: | right, plus other assorted database tasks that mythtranscode does |
| [15:15:29] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [15:15:44] | sphery: | and you said mythtranscode will still exist? |
| [15:15:44] | wagnerrp: | and i dont want any special transcoding methods in the jobqueue |
| [15:15:54] | wagnerrp: | i just want one generic codepath |
| [15:16:23] | sphery: | could the job queue--on seeing a crash--call some mythtranscode --cleanup type command? |
| [15:17:15] | wagnerrp: | only if it knows it was a transcode-type job |
| [15:17:18] | wagnerrp: | which i would prefer it not |
| [15:17:25] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [15:17:50] | sphery: | I don't like the idea of putting generic cleanup in the housekeeper if there's another option... just have to figure out the other option |
| [15:18:24] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch might have some ideas (or decide that the housekeeper is a good place for it--he's the housekeeper guy, so his opinion on that is more important than mine :) |
| [15:21:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, --recorderoptions was added by me when working on the AVFormatWriter patch, so I could easily encode to different output containers and codecs. one goal at the time was to allow mythweb to use mythtranscode to transcode on the fly to flv. |
| [15:21:23] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, yeah, --skipdb is a pain. |
| [15:22:29] | wagnerrp: | Captain_Murdoch: transcoding to flv would be fine, but cant we just make a new profile for that? |
| [15:22:42] | wagnerrp: | or fix that whole dialog structure so users can add profiles? |
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| [15:23:27] | wagnerrp: | the plan in the database rework was to just make each different profile a separate command |
| [15:24:03] | wagnerrp: | so you would have one job that was 'mythtranscode --profile autodetect', another that was 'mythtranscode --profile highquality' |
| [15:24:20] | wagnerrp: | and adding/removing transcoding profiles would automatically spawn these new job commands |
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| [15:24:39] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: he's trying to also remove the job queue's knowledge of what type of jobs it's running--just make it a generic job runner, so was looking for a place to put the program_info->SaveTranscodeStatus() stuff that comes after the transcode, in case there's a mythtranscode crash |
| [15:24:51] | sphery: | at least that's my understanding |
| [15:25:03] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [15:25:22] | sphery: | other than keeping it in mythtranscode and having mythtranscode kick off a "really transcode" sub-process, that can crash, I can't think of a good place for the cleanup |
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| [15:25:34] | sphery: | (not to imply the sub-process is a good place) |
| [15:25:41] | sphery: | good idea |
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| [15:47:32] | wagnerrp: | sphery: perhaps make MythCommandLineParser into a base class, with the shared command line options |
| [15:47:34] | Captain_Murdoch: | sphery, yeah, I know what he's trying to accomplish with making it a generic job runner, and I'm also not sure how it's going to work out with all the edge cases unless you do things like run mythranscode inside a wrapper always. another edge case is the desire we've discussed previously to have a 'file mover' job that could move files around to balance disk space. The jobqueue isn't just for recordings, so some data nee |
| [15:47:34] | Captain_Murdoch: | ds to either be passed to the job process or the job needs to know how to get the necessary info out of the DB. |
| [15:48:30] | Captain_Murdoch: | theoretically I could want to transcode a MythVideo file or burn a DVD, etc.. |
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| [15:49:34] | wagnerrp: | right now, that would be done using the general purpose 'args' field in the jobqueue |
| [15:50:01] | wagnerrp: | still havent decided how best to handle that |
| [15:51:23] | sphery: | wagnerrp: expanding MythCommandLineParser sounds like a good idea to me |
| [15:51:46] | wagnerrp: | sphery: then replace the parseTypes with a series of m_enabledWhatever that the subclass constructor would enable |
| [15:52:54] | wagnerrp: | use some sort of introspection like the mythxml stuff to dynamically discover what methods are available |
| [15:54:57] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, re: --recorderoptions, at the time it didn't make sense to add a bunch of profiles for all the different permutations of flv, h264, mpeg-4, aac, ac3, mpeg-ts, mpeg-ps, etc. that I was testing with, it was much easier to just modify the --recorderoptions command line option in a script. I'm fine with that option going away if anyone is cleaning up argument processing. |
| [15:55:59] | wagnerrp: | well the profiles would only need to be created for those specific permutations the user might want to use |
| [15:59:30] | sphery: | wagnerrp: or, instead of introspection, just pass an array of (non-bitmapped) values described by an enum, rather than using a single integer var |
| [15:59:47] | wagnerrp: | or that |
| [16:00:07] | sphery: | and have an isEnabled() function or similar |
| [16:00:28] | sphery: | meaning, probably use a list rather than an array :) |
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| [16:04:17] | Captain_Murdoch: | wagnerrp, that command line arg was for my testing, put into SVN as I merged in bits and pieces of the patch I was working on. end goal would have been to use a profile yes and with only a limited set of supported permutations. |
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| [18:01:07] | Seeker`: | any opinions on Athlon II Neo N36L 1.3 GHz for a backend CPU? |
| [18:02:21] | CyberKnet: | The name seems a little pretentious. Perhaps you could call it Athlon II Oldtimer Q37T 1.3Ghz ? |
| [18:02:27] | CyberKnet: | ;) |
| [18:02:40] | wagnerrp: | oldtimer? |
| [18:02:48] | CyberKnet: | *shrug* |
| [18:02:55] | wagnerrp: | what do you intend to record? |
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| [18:06:23] | wagnerrp: | Seeker`: ^^^ |
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| [18:09:34] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: Freeview using a Nova-T 500 |
| [18:10:55] | wagnerrp: | broadcast channels on two tuners, shouldnt be too bad |
| [18:11:02] | eamon__: | Are there any DVB-T cards that can decode MPEG-4? |
| [18:11:20] | eamon__: | Hauppauge.com only seems to talk about MPEG-2 |
| [18:11:23] | wagnerrp: | why would you want a tuner card that could decode mpeg-4? |
| [18:11:35] | eamon__: | Because that's what my country uses |
| [18:11:38] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: will also be using it to playback bluray, but I guess thats not really backend processor dependant |
| [18:11:51] | wagnerrp: | hauppauge only made one card that decoded mpeg2, and that was the PVR-350 which hasnt been sold for half a decade |
| [18:12:03] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: http://www.dabs.com/products/hp-proliant-n36l . . . l?refs=50240 is what I am looking at |
| [18:12:12] | wagnerrp: | Seeker`: no, frontend only |
| [18:12:22] | wagnerrp: | the problem with those low end systems is the scheduler is an intensive process |
| [18:12:53] | wagnerrp: | two tuners, a dozen channels, and a few dozen rules, on that machine, will likely take 10 seconds or so |
| [18:12:54] | eamon__: | wagnerrp: are you saying that they all support MPEG-4? |
| [18:13:10] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: im saying there are no tuner cards that support decoding of mpeg4 video |
| [18:13:21] | wagnerrp: | nor should you want a tuner card capable of decoding mpeg4 video |
| [18:13:40] | wagnerrp: | Seeker`: if your channels have a lot of repeat shows, its going to take longer |
| [18:13:48] | wagnerrp: | if you get more tuners or more channels, its going to take longer |
| [18:13:58] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: yeah, most of them do. What will the impact on playback be? |
| [18:14:00] | eamon__: | Why would I not want it wagnerrp? |
| [18:14:03] | wagnerrp: | usually for anyone with a subscription cable lineup, those low end processors are simply not an option |
| [18:14:28] | Seeker`: | Freeview has about 50 channels |
| [18:14:31] | wagnerrp: | any run over about a minute runs into complications, where recordings do not start in a timely manner |
| [18:14:53] | Seeker`: | eamon__: don't you want something that can *receive* mpeg4, not decode it |
| [18:14:56] | wagnerrp: | additionally, the heavy load on the database can result in slowdowns on the frontend |
| [18:15:13] | eamon__: | yes, that's right Seeker` . Can all the cards do this? |
| [18:15:23] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: right, even if you do get a 'full featured' tuner card with video output and playback support |
| [18:15:35] | wagnerrp: | youre just going to pay extra for a feature mythtv cannot support |
| [18:15:58] | wagnerrp: | digital tuners do not encode or decode anything |
| [18:15:59] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: bah, that sucks. Those boxes look like they'd be pretty much perfect, especially with £100 cashbak atm |
| [18:16:10] | Seeker`: | eamon__: you want a DVB-T2 tuner? |
| [18:16:15] | wagnerrp: | the most processing they do is a bit of filtering of the program streams in the mpeg2 transport stream |
| [18:16:23] | eamon__: | Seeker`: no just DVB-T |
| [18:19:07] | Seeker`: | wagnerrp: so you reckon it'll be a bit underpowered for the scheduling then? |
| [18:19:50] | sphery: | Seeker`: I'm a fan of low-power-usage with headroom, not constrained-power-usage with no headroom, CPUs |
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| [18:20:35] | wagnerrp: | Seeker`: yes, it will likely be underpowered for your use case |
| [18:20:36] | sphery: | Seeker`: you can do a 25W system with a nice i3 or i5 (or, likely Athlon II--though I don't have a link for such). http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/25w-performance-pc,2551.html |
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| [18:21:07] | sphery: | and if you get vdpau capability, it can be a combined frontend/backend system that's still low-power-usage |
| [18:21:12] | Seeker`: | sphery: Its not that I want particularly low power, that just seemed like a good deal for £136 for a whole system |
| [18:21:19] | sphery: | ahhh, yeah |
| [18:22:10] | sphery: | don't know much about UK prices, but I have been getting my CPU, motherboard, RAM for $150 or less (almost always less) for a few years, now |
| [18:22:26] | sphery: | granted, I buy what others will say are "garbage" motherboards |
| [18:22:50] | sphery: | i.e. because in 1993 someone tried a PC Chips motherboard, and had a problem, so they blamed the mobo company |
| [18:23:42] | Seeker`: | I think I'd struggle to get CPU, motherboard, RAM, case and PSU for under £130 |
| [18:24:05] | sphery: | and now they say, "If you're buying garbage, you should at least buy from a better garbage vendor--like ECS" |
| [18:24:16] | sphery: | not realizing that PCChips and ECS are the same company, now |
| [18:24:36] | sphery: | Seeker`: yeah, I generally reuse case and PSU |
| [18:24:43] | eamon__: | See on the page http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_hvr2200mc.html it says "Record digital TV programmes in original MPEG-2 quality."... Did they just neglect to mention that the card can also stream/record MPEG-4? I just want to be sure before buying this card. |
| [18:24:57] | Seeker`: | don't have any spare cases or PSUs running around |
| [18:25:00] | sphery: | I buy nice 80 PLUS PSUs, and match them to the needs of the mobos |
| [18:25:12] | sphery: | and generally retire systems to make room for newer |
| [18:25:38] | sphery: | but PSU + case can increase cost dramatically--especially if you try to go for small, quiet, and pretty |
| [18:25:53] | Seeker`: | I'm trying to split out a frontend/backend in to seperate systems |
| [18:26:21] | sphery: | If you put the system out of sight/earshot, you can go with cheaper (and not worry about absolute silence) |
| [18:26:43] | sphery: | No way... Bob's Burgers got renewed |
| [18:26:45] | Seeker`: | out of sight I can do, out of earshot I can't |
| [18:28:36] | sphery: | FWIW, stock coolers on my Athlon II systems seem very quiet to me, so even partly out of earshot may be enough |
| [18:28:58] | sphery: | I'm sure the same is probably true of Core i chips, too |
| [18:30:23] | EvilBob: | My Burgers rock, bacon ground in and on top... |
| [18:30:44] | Seeker`: | I'll just build an i3 system. Was just hoping to be able to save some money and get a neat case with it too. |
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| [18:32:43] | sphery: | Seeker`: also, note that if you're talking about a remote backend--and not a master backend--lower power isn't necessarily a problem (even with lots of channels) |
| [18:32:51] | sphery: | lower power meaning lower performance |
| [18:33:09] | Seeker`: | this thing will be a master backend |
| [18:33:34] | sphery: | Seeker`: but, in general, I think you'll be happier with better performing... that said, you may be willing to live with the limitations of the other system--just don't expect to be problem free with it |
| [18:33:54] | sphery: | many on the list extoll the virtues of using underpowered systems |
| [18:34:15] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: that card cannot stream or record mpeg4, it can record DVB-T |
| [18:34:31] | wagnerrp: | if the DVB-T transport stream contains h264 video and aac audio, so be it... the card doesnt care |
| [18:34:37] | Seeker`: | yeah, I've got to the point where I want to come home from work and just watch what I've recorded |
| [18:34:43] | wagnerrp: | it will pass the contents of that stream into mythtv one way or another |
| [18:34:56] | sphery: | probably the same people who post to landscaping forums about the virtues of using a spoon for grading your lawn |
| [18:34:58] | wagnerrp: | that card DOES have an mpeg2 encoder for use with anallog video |
| [18:35:09] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: and that MPEG2 encoder is what theyre advertising |
| [18:36:05] | eamon__: | wagnerrp: ok, that's good thanks. Can I input HD into my mythtv server with that card and have a mythTV client watch the channell in SD with a simple interface? |
| [18:36:36] | wagnerrp: | no, you can input DIGITAL |
| [18:36:49] | wagnerrp: | digital tv is a pre-compressed mpeg2 or mpeg4 video stream |
| [18:36:58] | wagnerrp: | you have no control over whether the content is SD or HD |
| [18:37:26] | wagnerrp: | you capture the stream as it is broadcast, and your machine must be up to the task of playback of whatever the broadcast content is |
| [18:38:09] | eamon__: | OK, say the stream is HD, can myth TV server, take that HD, transcode it on-the-fly to SD and then mythTV client watch in SD? |
| [18:38:12] | wagnerrp: | for HD h264, youre looking at either a modern nvidia graphics card with VDPAU, or a 64-bit processor 2–2.5GHz or better |
| [18:38:23] | wagnerrp: | mythtv does not support transcoding on-the-fly |
| [18:38:34] | wagnerrp: | you can batch transcode it to a lower quality for later viewing |
| [18:38:42] | wagnerrp: | but all digital tv is recorded as broadcast |
| [18:39:17] | wagnerrp: | if your frontend is sufficiently powerful, you can simply play that HD content at SD resolutions |
| [18:39:37] | wagnerrp: | if your frontend is not sufficiently powerful, youre likely better off simply upgrading that frontend than screwing around with transcoding |
| [18:39:49] | eamon__: | yeah, I'm thinking of making a myth TV client out of spare parts but all I have is an Athlon64 3200+ and an nvidia geforceFX 5200 |
| [18:39:59] | wagnerrp: | alternatively, you may be able to replace the video card with one capable of decoding that in hardware |
| [18:40:29] | wagnerrp: | AGP or PCIe? |
| [18:40:31] | eamon__: | do you think that will be able to play HD at the bitrates TV companies use? |
| [18:40:36] | eamon__: | AGP |
| [18:40:39] | eamon__: | very old |
| [18:40:46] | wagnerrp: | it may, it may not |
| [18:40:52] | wagnerrp: | depends on the bitrate, and encoding options |
| [18:40:56] | wagnerrp: | dual core or single core? |
| [18:41:21] | eamon__: | single, this is an original Athlon64, first 64-bit consumer chip |
| [18:41:47] | wagnerrp: | yeah, but they made a 3200+ and a 3200+ X2 |
| [18:41:59] | wagnerrp: | 3200+ was... 2.4GHz? |
| [18:42:08] | eamon__: | about that, yes |
| [18:42:18] | wagnerrp: | it may be sufficient, but i make no guarantees |
| [18:42:19] | eamon__: | let me lscpu and see |
| [18:42:29] | wagnerrp: | youre probably good up to around 10Mbps or so |
| [18:42:51] | wagnerrp: | my 2GHz chip can manage somewhere just under 8Mbps |
| [18:43:02] | eamon__: | CPU MHz 2000 |
| [18:43:27] | eamon__: | ok, that's promising. Do you use mythbuntu or other? |
| [18:44:02] | wagnerrp: | gentoo |
| [18:44:40] | eamon__: | What do you need in the line of display managers for mythtv? |
| [18:44:52] | eamon__: | is a barebones X install enough? |
| [18:45:09] | eamon__: | mythtv client that is |
| [18:45:21] | wagnerrp: | you want some form of window manager, you do not need a desktop environment or display manager |
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| [18:46:53] | eamon__: | so would somethinig like twm suffice? |
| [18:47:32] | wagnerrp: | should work |
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| [18:53:51] | eamon__: | Can MythTV client play DVDs? |
| [18:53:59] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [18:57:20] | CyberKnet: | loaded question |
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| [18:57:35] | wagnerrp: | how so? |
| [18:57:43] | tgm4883: | not a loaded question |
| [18:57:57] | CyberKnet: | Can it? yes |
| [18:58:11] | CyberKnet: | Have I ever gotten it to play back one satisfactorily? Not once. |
| [18:58:23] | tgm4883: | still not sure how that is a loaded question |
| [18:58:28] | wagnerrp: | it plays my ISOs just fine |
| [18:58:44] | ** tgm4883 doesn't have a dvd player in his frontend ** | |
| [18:58:46] | CyberKnet: | well... not so much a loaded question as a question that gets an answer that potentially varies. |
| [18:59:06] | CyberKnet: | wagnerrp: Maybe that's my problem. I've always tried discs. |
| [18:59:43] | wagnerrp: | aside from encryption/libdvdcss issues, discs should be no different |
| [18:59:57] | CyberKnet: | I love the word "should" :) |
| [19:00:25] | tgm4883: | CyberKnet, why would it be different? |
| [19:00:45] | CyberKnet: | tgm4883: I'm just saying in general, I love the world "should" |
| [19:00:45] | tgm4883: | DVD/VIDEO_TS DIR/ISO should structurally be the same |
| [19:01:06] | tgm4883: | CyberKnet, thats nice |
| [19:01:13] | ** tgm4883 pats CyberKnet on the head ** | |
| [19:01:20] | sphery: | eamon__: twm or fluxbox or RatPoison are good low-resource choices (RatPoison is likely the lowest-resource of the 3) |
| [19:01:52] | wagnerrp: | CyberKnet: as far as playback is concerned, there is no difference between discs, ISOs, and VIDEO_TS folders |
| [19:01:56] | eamon__: | thanks sphery. |
| [19:01:58] | CyberKnet: | tgm4883: Yes, structurally it is the same. Probably the issues I have had are encryption/libdvdcss issues. I have a hardware DVD player so I haven't bothered. |
| [19:01:59] | wagnerrp: | mythtv understands the structure, and plays them all fine |
| [19:02:11] | wagnerrp: | the problem is that companies intentionally break their DVDs |
| [19:02:13] | tgm4883: | CyberKnet, most likely the issue |
| [19:02:29] | tgm4883: | wagnerrp is right, thats a big issue as well |
| [19:02:30] | wagnerrp: | in such a fashion that ROMs (and some hardware players) cannot handle them properly |
| [19:02:48] | ** tgm4883 scowls at disney ** | |
| [19:02:59] | wagnerrp: | aside from having custom tailoring for each and every disc to correct for these purposeful errors |
| [19:03:02] | wagnerrp: | theres nothing mythtv can do |
| [19:03:12] | wagnerrp: | as we dont have the manpower or will to try that |
| [19:04:28] | CyberKnet: | wagnerrp: agreed. It's easier for me to continue to buy purpose-built devices to play back these optical formats than it is to pursue why they don't necessarily work... as trying to figure out why they don't work could easily bring up topics I shouldn't discuss in here. |
| [19:04:57] | eamon__: | Can I run mythTV server without logging in (like a daemon service)? |
| [19:05:18] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: the same way any other daemon service gets started |
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| [20:44:08] | J-e-f-f-A: | Uh-oh, looks like I've got a HDD going bad... "ata8: SError: { UnrecovData 10B8B Dispar BadCRC Handshk }" eek... gonna have to swap that out tonight before it goes south!!! |
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| [21:04:23] | CyberKnet: | J-e-f-f-A: Horrible feeling, isn't it? |
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| [21:09:16] | eamon__: | Any recommendations for a dual tuner PCI/PCIe card with good drivers? |
| [21:09:28] | wagnerrp: | !url tuners |
| [21:09:28] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
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| [21:12:19] | J-e-f-f-A: | CyberKnet: Yeah, thanfully I've got a pair of 1TB drives ready to go in anyways... Hopefully it's one of the old 500's that's throwing the crc errors... |
| [21:13:19] | eamon__: | wagner: the page http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-2200 says something about Hg added kernel support from 2009, is there kernel support in the mainline kernel sources now do you know? |
| [21:13:49] | wagnerrp: | eamon__: for DVB, yes |
| [21:14:03] | wagnerrp: | for analog, still yes, but you need a very recent kernel |
| [21:14:53] | eamon__: | cool. is the module called saa7164 in Device Drivers -> Multimedia support? |
| [21:15:18] | wagnerrp: | dont know |
| [21:15:47] | eamon__: | It is somewhere in the "make menuconfig" menu though right? |
| [21:16:19] | wagnerrp: | almost certainly |
| [21:17:15] | eamon__: | cool. I'll update the wiki if I buy the card and get it running |
| [21:17:26] | skd5aner: | is there a wiki page documenting all these new mythtv serverice in the new API framework? |
| [21:17:56] | wagnerrp: | no, but the API framework documents itself |
| [21:18:26] | wagnerrp: | see the API-->WSDL Links pages |
| [21:18:39] | skd5aner: | thx |
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| [21:18:48] | iamlindoro: | bah, guess I'd better add a link to the channel service |
| [21:19:23] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: what the heck was this? http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-commit . . . /079654.html ? |
| [21:19:54] | wagnerrp: | might be a good idea to whip up some javascript to read those WSDL pages and print out a user friendly view of them |
| [21:20:13] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: that was... a merge commit |
| [21:20:33] | skd5aner: | yea, but I'm kind of confused as to what would have needed to have been "merged"? |
| [21:20:39] | wagnerrp: | from me forgetting to pull 0.24 before committing 27c3ea50 |
| [21:21:14] | wagnerrp: | remember, you get one of those every time you commit with outstanding updates on the repository |
| [21:22:42] | skd5aner: | gotcha – thanks for the clarification/lesson |
| [21:23:11] | skd5aner: | also, I was asking about the services because I was curious if I could simplify the changelog and provide a link to say "see new services here" |
| [21:23:12] | wagnerrp: | basically, iamlindoro and i both pull from the repository |
| [21:23:18] | wagnerrp: | he commits and pushes |
| [21:23:30] | wagnerrp: | then i commit, when i push, i have to 'merge' my changes in with his |
| [21:24:01] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i was going to do that a couple weeks ago, but trying to access the pages caused the backend to segfault |
| [21:24:07] | Wicked: | i was in here lastnight asking about native resolutions on my motorola qip7100–2 from verizon...turns out they have not added the support for native passthrough resolutions but allegedly its in the works and will be in the next update which should be rolling out shortly. There is also a beta ..no idea about it yet though |
| [21:24:08] | wagnerrp: | that has since been fixed, but i havent yet updated |
| [21:24:23] | Wicked: | just figured i would pass the info along incase anyone else was interested :) |
| [21:24:41] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: cool |
| [21:25:09] | wagnerrp: | HAHAHAH |
| [21:25:26] | wagnerrp: | someone has written an 'einstein pedometer' for the iphone |
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| [21:26:19] | wagnerrp: | instead of tallying distance traveled, it uses velocity and duration to measure time dilation |
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| [21:51:28] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: whoops! http://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/blob/master/m . . . ser.cpp#L240 |
| [21:52:19] | iamlindoro: | heh |
| [21:52:31] | iamlindoro: | feel free to fix, otherwise I have to reteach myself where we keep all that stuff |
| [21:53:46] | wagnerrp: | the line should just say kCLPScanVideos instead of kCLPReschedule |
| [21:53:48] | wagnerrp: | but no matter |
| [21:53:59] | wagnerrp: | it works as is, since the backend is the only program that uses either of those |
| [21:54:32] | wagnerrp: | im just going through and reworking the check as a QStringList instead of a bitfield |
| [21:54:34] | wagnerrp: | and noticed that |
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| [22:50:24] | zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:08:39] | zombor (zombor!~zombor_@kohana/developer/zombor) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [23:09:44] | Beirdo: | any reason that's not in libmythbase (if we are trying to eventually get rid of libmyth)? |
| [23:10:41] | ** wagnerrp claims no knowledge of the library structure ** | |
| [23:10:58] | ** Beirdo is only starting to figure it out... ** | |
| [23:11:23] | Beirdo: | I thought the general idea long-term was to nuke libmyth completely, but maybe I'm just on crack. |
| [23:12:58] | Beirdo: | not that it matters right now anyways :) |
| [23:21:47] | wagnerrp: | so find orphans looks for any database entries without files, and any files without matching database entries |
| [23:22:06] | wagnerrp: | it then filters the rest, and offers to delete SOME of them |
| [23:22:18] | wagnerrp: | it does NOT offer to delete files that look like database backups |
| [23:22:45] | wagnerrp: | but some crazy fool on the -users list thinks it wants him to delete all those files |
| [23:23:12] | wagnerrp: | does it give you the option to delete those files? NO, so clearly it doesnt want you to! |
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| [23:32:33] | wagnerrp: | dont we have a channel editor in livetv mode? |
| [23:32:38] | wagnerrp: | im pretty sure ive used it before |
| [23:37:55] | xamindar (xamindar!~xamindar@adsl-99-8-226-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Quit: nekomimimodo) | |
| [23:38:29] | pheld (pheld!~heldal@cl-5.osl-01.no.sixxs.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | |
| [23:40:34] | iamlindoro: | we did in the past, it has been alternately disabled and re--enabled too many times to count |
| [23:42:59] | wagnerrp: | why do users think they can dig stuff out of the trash to run mythtv on? |
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