Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, April 8th, 2011, 00:01 UTC

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EnderTheThird:

With latest trunk since mid-late March, mythtranscode has been stalling at 80–90% completion when I'm transcoding with cutlist. If I run mythbackend from terminal, it stalls while saying "Converting frame #31 from B to I" or similar.

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EnderTheThird:

I've Googled but can't seem to find anyone with similar problem. Any ideas?

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sphery:

katumba1: if you remove the card, can you boot the system to remove the blacklist? if not, you'll likely need to boot to single-user/recovery mode or use a live cd disc to boot up and remove the blacklist

[00:54:07]

EnderTheThird:

If you can tell me what level to specify for verbose, I can post the output

[00:56:12]

katumba1:

sphery: I added the blacklist before adding the card.

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katumba1:

Clean install of mythbuntu 10.10 w/ HVR1600 and 2250 goes fine until first boot. Then halts at first login.

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[02:01:28]

tgm4883:

katumba1, halts at first login?

[02:01:41]

katumba1:

yes.

[02:01:48]

EnderTheThird:

http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9715 for the problem I described earlier

[02:03:25]

tgm4883:

katumba1, so... it crashes?

[02:04:15]

katumba1:

yes. It starts to load the desktop, screen flickers a couple of times, then drops to login. Nvidia video card.

[02:06:44]

sphery:

katumba1: and if you take out the 1600 card, does it boot

[02:06:50]

sphery:

if so, that would allow you to remove the blacklist

[02:07:05]

katumba1:

correct.

[02:07:09]

sphery:

then you could increase the vmalloc

[02:07:09]

katumba1:

yes, I guess so.

[02:07:19]

sphery:

then your 2250 and 1600 should both work

[02:09:01]

katumba1:

sphery, do you mind elaborating on how I would go about doing that?

[02:09:38]

sphery:

which part? increasing vmalloc? see the wiki page

[02:09:45]

sphery:

the one Devin linked

[02:09:55]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Common_Problem:_vmalloc_too_small

[02:10:55]

tgm4883:

vmalloc too small? I was in the pool!

[02:11:43]

sphery:

heh, I'm way too slow tonight--took me a while to figure that out

[02:12:04]

sphery:

now I'm thinking of Seinfeld episodes

[02:12:09]

tgm4883:

sphery, it's an old reference. I was wondering if it was too old for some people

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[02:12:26]

katumba1:

yeah, was reading that. Problem is, how do I edit lilo?

[02:13:03]

tgm4883:

people still use lilo?

[02:13:04]

katumba1:

Does she know about shrinkage???

[02:13:25]

sphery:

katumba1: if you have unmodified ubuntu, you probably use grub, don't you?

[02:13:39]

katumba1:

I'm a noob. I guess so...

[02:15:22]

katumba1:

so, sudo nano /boot/grub/menu.1st ??

[02:15:33]

katumba1:

or is that .lst?

[02:15:42]

sphery:

would be lst (as in list)

[02:15:53]

sphery:

but if you're using grub 2, it's /boot/grub/grub.cfg

[02:16:15]

sphery:

and direct editing isn't the preferred approach--instead fixing the config that's used by the scripts that create grub.cfg is preferred

[02:16:25]

sphery:

no clue how to do that with *buntu

[02:17:14]

sphery:

I know that some people are using grub2 and think some still use grub legacy with *buntu--likely dependent on whether they upgraded from a grub-legacy version or just installed a post-grub-legacy version

[02:17:30]

sphery:

version of the distro, that is

[02:17:43]

katumba1:

this was just a clean install of 10.10.

[02:17:58]

sphery:

I'd guess it's grub2, then

[02:18:09]

sphery:

either way, you should only have one file or the other

[02:18:17]

sphery:

so if no menu.lst, try grub.cfg

[02:18:35]

sphery:

and if grub.cfg, you'll need to find someone to help you figure out how to fix it properly

[02:18:59]

sphery:

most help I can provide is: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2

[02:19:38]

katumba1:

Thank you. so, is this a conflict w/ the primary video card? Is that the problem? Seems strange that adding a capture card can cause this.

[02:20:07]

sphery:

basically you're just using enough hardware that needs direct memory access that you've run out of kernel memory for it

[02:20:17]

sphery:

so you just need to increase the kernel memory for it

[02:21:03]

katumba1:

Ok, so as per that link, I can edit /etc/grub.d/40_custom w/ the kopt=root=UUID=1029384–7e40-ffd2-9968–7a8b9e78f9g7s ro vmalloc=192M

[02:21:05]

sphery:

I was able to just disable nvidiafb (which uses kernel memory) to get enough free kernel memory for all my devices, but my system isn't reliant upon KMS or nvidiafb

[02:21:24]

sphery:

that sounds about right

[02:21:30]

sphery:

details left to the reader :)

[02:22:05]

sphery:

(i.e. if it doesn't work, make sure you still have a non-custom boot line to get back in--or that you know how to use the grub command line)

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katumba1:

done. rebooting. This was a test install. My HD w/ all the recorded stuff is safe...

[02:23:00]

wagnerrp:

GAH!

[02:23:10]

** wagnerrp sets fire to the american idol studio **

[02:23:43]

wagnerrp:

why cant they just friggen end at their scheduled time

[02:23:50]

sphery:

are they making my fringe go late or something?

[02:23:53]

wagnerrp:

why do they have to run long and screw up other shows

[02:23:56]

wagnerrp:

bones

[02:24:27]

sphery:

great

[02:24:29]

sphery:

how long

[02:24:34]

sphery:

since you told me 24min too late

[02:24:39]

wagnerrp:

cant tell, maybe 30 seconds?

[02:24:48]

wagnerrp:

it just chopped off the ending

[02:24:49]

sphery:

I have a 5-min end late on fringe, but not bones

[02:24:52]

sphery:

ah, not too bad

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sphery:

I can live without seeing them sitting in the bar making a comment that shows that they want to be together but neither is strong enough to admit it

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katumba1:

sphery: no dice. Drops back to login. If I type startx (not sure if that is correct) I get 'failed to initialize Nvidia device.

[02:30:00]

sphery:

you've removed the blacklist

[02:30:08]

sphery:

and were able to boot without the blacklist?

[02:34:25]

katumba1:

no. even w/o that blacklist line it still crashes back to login.

[02:34:53]

sphery:

only since you added the vmalloc to the boot line or even without that?

[02:36:07]

katumba1:

correct. either way, only gets to login. I'm trying another clean install now after disabling the onboard video based on what you said about hardware conflict.

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mycoDA:

something is ringing in my mind saying i shoudl be able to help with this one – but i cant remember why lol

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katumba1:

fatal server error: no screens found after clean install w/ onboard video disabled. Will try the two edits mentioned above.

[02:52:01]

sphery:

katumba1: what are the errors before that

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sphery:

that cause it to fail to detect your video card or whatever?

[02:52:43]

sphery:

also, do you have an nvidia driver loaded? lsmod | grep nvidia

[02:52:48]

mycoDA:

nprmally at this sort o point i would be trying nvidia-xconfig

[02:53:24]

sphery:

and pastebin of the lsmod | grep nvidia output would be useful

[02:53:59]

katumba1:

could not open the device file /dev/nvidia0

[02:54:04]

katumba1:

lsmod | grep nvidia

[02:54:06]

katumba1:

nvidia 9331115 0

[02:54:08]

katumba1:

agpgart 32075 2 nvidia,ati_agp

[02:54:30]

sphery:

that means you still don't have nvidiafb installed

[02:54:43]

sphery:

are you sure you removed the blacklist?

[02:55:19]

katumba1:

this was a clean install. Haven't made any changes yet. So, no blacklist yet.

[02:55:48]

sphery:

ah, ok

[02:55:52]

sphery:

then it's likely not that :)

[02:56:36]

sphery:

and you did install the proprietary/restricted nvidia drivers?

[02:56:46]

mycoDA:

is part o the distro now

[02:56:55]

sphery:

oh, really? cool

[02:57:07]

mycoDA:

ubuntu is incompatible with the upstream drivers from the nv site

[02:57:23]

katumba1:

it comes up and asks me which to use, and I chose the nvidia one.

[02:57:30]

sphery:

in theory, you could manually create the nvidia0 device with: sudo mknod /dev/nvidia0 c 195 0

[02:57:34]

sphery:

that said, it's not a fix

[02:57:39]

mycoDA:

ummm no lol

[02:57:41]

sphery:

(since it will have to be done on every bootup)

[02:59:34]

sphery:

anyway, I'm way out of my area of expertise, here, so I'll leave you to people who know *buntu

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[03:01:18]

mycoDA:

try sudo apt-get install nvidia-current

[03:01:58]

mycoDA:

oh, after sudo apt-get --purge remove xserver-xorg-video-nouveau

[03:02:05]

katumba1:

So, just to recap, here is where I'm at... I can install mythbunto w/ just my 2250 card and get the digital and analog sides working. However, for some reason the analog side doesn't seem to be able to 'hold onto' the channel, and I get a blue screen and static audio after displaying the channel briefly. Or, I can just install my 1600 card and get analog channels just fine, just no HD. ...

[03:02:06]

katumba1:

...3rd-ly, I can put both cards in and get no where. Lastly, I can install Win 7 w/ Media Center w/ the 2250 card and it works fine analog and digital... Whew.

[03:02:24]

katumba1:

trying the new nvidia driver....

[03:02:43]

mycoDA:

do the purge 1st apparently

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[03:04:22]

katumba1:

sudo apt-get --purge remove xserver-xorg-video-nouveau

[03:04:24]

katumba1:

Reading package lists... Done

[03:04:25]

katumba1:

Building dependency tree

[03:04:27]

katumba1:

Reading state information... Done

[03:04:29]

katumba1:

The following packages will be REMOVED:

[03:04:30]

katumba1:

xserver-xorg-video-all* xserver-xorg-video-nouveau*

[03:04:32]

katumba1:

0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 192 not upgraded.

[03:04:33]

katumba1:

After this operation, 315kB disk space will be freed.

[03:04:35]

katumba1:

Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y

[03:04:37]

katumba1:

(Reading database ... 110543 files and directories currently installed.)

[03:04:39]

katumba1:

Removing xserver-xorg-video-all ...

[03:04:40]

katumba1:

Removing xserver-xorg-video-nouveau ...

[03:04:41]

katumba1:

Processing triggers for man-db ...

[03:04:43]

katumba1:

michael@michael-GA-MA74GM-S2:~$ sudo apt-get install nvidia-current Reading package lists... Done

[03:04:44]

katumba1:

Building dependency tree

[03:04:46]

katumba1:

Reading state information... Done

[03:04:48]

katumba1:

nvidia-current is already the newest version.

[03:04:49]

katumba1:

0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 192 not upgraded.

[03:04:54]

sphery:

pastebin is preferred!

[03:05:03]

sphery:

http://www.pastebin.com/

[03:05:21]

sphery:

(for anything over 2 or /maybe/ occasionally 3 lines)

[03:05:24]

katumba1:

ah, see that now. I just spam'd the board...

[03:05:39]

sphery:

at least freenode didn't kick you for flooding

[03:06:35]

mycoDA:

try sudo dpkg-reconfigure nvidia-current

[03:07:14]

katumba1:

ok... Removing all DKMS Modules

[03:09:07]

katumba1:

Installation – Installing to /lib/modules/2.6.35-28-generic-pae/updates/dkms/

[03:09:51]

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[03:12:16]

mycoDA:

katumba1 how much RAM does the machine have?

[03:12:24]

katumba1:

4gigs

[03:12:45]

sphery:

and a 32-bit kernel?

[03:12:48]

mycoDA:

cool

[03:12:48]

sphery:

what processor?

[03:12:59]

mycoDA:

PAE kernel

[03:13:04]

mycoDA:

shouldnt matter

[03:13:22]

katumba1:

32 bit, yes. AMDooah!

[03:13:32]

mycoDA:

just do that vmalloc thing – allocate 512M i would say

[03:13:38]

sphery:

was just going to say if it's a 64-bit processor, you could just do a 64-bit install and you wouldn't have any vmalloc problems

[03:13:42]

mycoDA:

the 64bit kernel allocates 1G

[03:13:57]

mycoDA:

would take longer than the fix, no real point

[03:14:51]

sphery:

and unless it's an old Athlon XP, any semi-modern AMD processor should be 64-bit capable

[03:15:02]

mycoDA:

am in the same sort of boat, long chain of upgrades lol, but at least i am not crippled by the vmalloc issue lol

[03:15:21]

sphery:

(and don't think that Athlon XP boards actually supported 4G RAM, so...)

[03:15:34]

sphery:

anyway, just an option

[03:16:28]

Beirdo:

need beer. I guess I should get off the couch and get one

[03:16:46]

mycoDA:

up to you katumba1, 64bit way would save you doing the vmalloc thing, prolly allow you to get mysql better optimised too lol

[03:16:46]

sphery:

you don't have your Roombeer working, yet?

[03:17:13]

katumba1:

Roombeer. That's good. I need a roomGin.

[03:17:39]

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[03:17:46]

katumba1:

change it to: kopt=root=UUID=1029384–7e40-ffd2-9968–7a8b9e78f9g7s ro vmalloc=512M

[03:17:47]

sphery:

he's actually building a kegerator with custom weight and temperature sensors that report stats on the web

[03:18:02]

katumba1:

ran update-grub

[03:18:06]

katumba1:

rebooting.

[03:19:19]

mycoDA:

sounds like he needs that fridge some guy set up that is controlled from a phone ap, has a webcam for targeting, and fires beercans across the room

[03:19:30]

mycoDA:

gluk katumba1

[03:19:55]

sphery:

heh

[03:20:11]

katumba1:

no change; same error.

[03:21:02]

mycoDA:

pastebin dmesg

[03:23:15]

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[03:24:21]

katumba1:

[03:24:25]

wagnerrp:

sphery: ive got reservations about this whole calc_tps thing

[03:24:44]

sphery:

tps...

[03:24:48]

wagnerrp:

i understand why its there, to ensure the slow delete occurs at least fast enough to keep up with the available tuners

[03:24:58]

sphery:

ah, per second delete

[03:25:01]

sphery:

yeah

[03:25:11]

wagnerrp:

but if someone is really recording that much content, do you think they would be using ext3?

[03:25:32]

sphery:

that much = how much?

[03:25:49]

wagnerrp:

i guess the default is only 8MB/s, enough for a single HDHR to push

[03:26:08]

mycoDA:

katumba1 – that seems to only be half at most of it

[03:26:08]

sphery:

8MB/s is enough for the first 4 tuners, IIRC

[03:26:38]

wagnerrp:

2

[03:26:44]

sphery:

ah, ok

[03:26:55]

wagnerrp:

the calculated minimum is 3.3MB/s per capturecard

[03:27:16]

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[03:27:22]

mycoDA:

but seems to be consistent with the vmalloc change not having taken

[03:27:51]

mycoDA:

can you pastebin the rest please

[03:27:55]

katumba1:

[03:28:09]

Lexridge:

hi everyone

[03:28:10]

katumba1:

it seems that I can't highlight any higher...

[03:28:57]

sphery:

katumba1: dmesg | tee ~/dmesg-output.txt

[03:29:36]

Lexridge:

I have a question about mythbackend's UPNP server

[03:29:38]

sphery:

will put a copy into the file ~/dmesg-output.txt

[03:30:35]

Lexridge:

I have copied over several mkv files that I self encoded to my myth backend shared varchive drive, which is a samba share.

[03:31:00]

katumba1:

yes, have the text file. then what? lol.

[03:31:09]

Lexridge:

I connect to the backend using a WDTV Live box, via UPNP

[03:31:24]

sphery:

can open it up in a browser or text editor and then copy it to pastebin

[03:31:45]

sphery:

or scp ~/dmesg-output.txt <your current host>:

[03:31:52]

sphery:

if it's on the wrong system

[03:31:54]

Lexridge:

All the files show up just fine, and I can play pre-existing files from it. But anything that I add new, will not play. However, if I copy those files to a flash drive, they play from it just fine.

[03:32:21]

sphery:

Lexridge: 0.24-fixes?

[03:32:53]

Lexridge:

no no, sphery, MythTV plays them okay, but the WDTV Live box cannot.

[03:33:09]

Lexridge:

I think the UPNP server is blocking something

[03:33:09]

sphery:

right, which version of mythtv is serving them?

[03:33:19]

Lexridge:

oh, lemme check

[03:33:24]

Beirdo:

that was fun

[03:33:33]

Beirdo:

the tap seized

[03:33:54]

sphery:

stuck open or something?

[03:33:55]

Lexridge:

sphery 0.24.20101129–1

[03:33:58]

Beirdo:

I think I need to find some good food-grade lube for that thing

[03:34:03]

Beirdo:

stuck closed

[03:34:12]

sphery:

Lexridge: and are you putting the files in recordings or mythvideo?

[03:34:12]

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[03:34:20]

sphery:

Beirdo: ah, better closed than open

[03:34:23]

Lexridge:

mythvideo

[03:34:26]

Beirdo:

I had to completely disassemble and manually work it with running water

[03:34:29]

katumba1:

[03:34:32]

sphery:

unless you're at a frat party

[03:34:45]

sphery:

Lexridge: and you're waiting 30min for them upnp scanner to find them?

[03:34:59]

sphery:

and the wdtv supports the mkv container and whatever codec you used inside?

[03:35:12]

Lexridge:

sphery, yes and yes.

[03:35:13]

sphery:

Beirdo would know if you have to do something special to tell the upnp server to serve mkv files

[03:35:47]

Lexridge:

The files are seen as available. But when I access them, the hard drive goes crazy, and I just get video noise on the screen.

[03:35:50]

Beirdo:

um, not that I know of

[03:35:52]

sphery:

mycoDA: katumba1 got a more complete dmesg, now, it seems

[03:35:55]

sphery:

just above

[03:36:02]

mycoDA:

lookin at it

[03:36:06]

Beirdo:

well, I have quick-connects on my beer lines

[03:36:14]

Beirdo:

easy to disconnect

[03:36:18]

mycoDA:

thanks

[03:36:20]

sphery:

mycoDA: cool, wanted to make sure you didn't miss it :)

[03:36:26]

mycoDA:

:)

[03:36:34]

sphery:

Lexridge: hmmm... not sure what's happening

[03:36:42]

sphery:

I don't know the upnp stuff

[03:36:53]

Lexridge:

I need to try mounting that device as a smb share on the WDTV box and see if that works.

[03:37:14]

Lexridge:

that will prove, or dis-prove whether it is in fact UPNP, which I suspect it is.

[03:37:15]

sphery:

yeah, it does sound a lot like the file system access causing problems

[03:37:35]

Beirdo:

the upnp server will just byteserve the file out

[03:37:51]

Beirdo:

I don't think it gives a crap what kinda file it is

[03:37:59]

Lexridge:

Beirdo, Yes, unless something is buggy

[03:38:00]

sphery:

oh, the "plays from flash" meant if you put them on a flash drive and plugged that into the wdtv instead of using upnp

[03:38:15]

Lexridge:

yes, that is exactly what I meant, sphery

[03:38:25]

Beirdo:

no, whether or not something is buggy, that's how the server works

[03:38:44]

Lexridge:

I see your point, beirdo

[03:38:45]

Beirdo:

it reads the file and sends it out the socket

[03:38:48]

Beirdo:

that is all

[03:38:48]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:39:12]

Lexridge:

Okay, that said, what else could cause this?

[03:39:14]

Beirdo:

if the file's screwy... or can't be read... well then I'm sure you'll see screwy output :)

[03:39:30]

Lexridge:

But the file can be played fine from any frontend

[03:39:33]

sphery:

any chance you can try a non-CIFS drive for the mythvideo file archive--at least temporarily

[03:39:41]

sphery:

like NFS or even local dirs

[03:39:49]

Lexridge:

I could try a NFS.

[03:39:55]

sphery:

and see if UPnP can stream it then

[03:40:04]

Lexridge:

but I have not yet tried CIFS. Just upnp

[03:40:07]

Beirdo:

the first thing a upnp client tries to do is to read partway into the file or something like that (near the end)

[03:40:14]

Beirdo:

it could just be seeking is screwy

[03:40:25]

Lexridge:

that's an interesting suggestion

[03:40:27]

Beirdo:

but AFAIK it does it by byte offset

[03:40:47]

Lexridge:

that HDD in question is new, but that really means nothing

[03:40:55]

sphery:

Lexridge: oh, so mythbackend has a local file system for them, but shares it as a samba share

[03:41:07]

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[03:41:07]

sphery:

I thought you meant that you were mounting a samba share on your mythbackend box

[03:41:10]

Lexridge:

yes sphery

[03:41:29]

Lexridge:

no, I copy the original files via samba to the backend from my main linux computer.

[03:41:30]

sphery:

so no need to try that

[03:41:53]

Lexridge:

And all computers play back those files just fine

[03:41:59]

Lexridge:

and mythfrontend

[03:42:45]

Lexridge:

I have not tried mounting the share yet on the WDTV box, as I need to revert back to the 3rd party firmware first. I cannot figure out how to do it from the offical firmware,

[03:42:55]

Beirdo:

try running the backend with -v upnp,extra

[03:42:58]

Beirdo:

it may help

[03:43:13]

Lexridge:

okay. what does that option do?

[03:43:15]

Beirdo:

my WDTV Plus works great with everything I've thrown at it

[03:43:18]

sphery:

Lexridge: mythbackend --version

[03:43:30]

sphery:

Lexridge: I have a feeling you need to update to current 0.24-fixes

[03:43:34]

Beirdo:

turns the logging up considerably, so you might be able to find out what it's doing

[03:43:39]

sphery:

IIRC, Beirdo did several UPnP fixes

[03:43:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think so

[03:43:55]

Lexridge:

ahhhh, nice

[03:43:58]

Beirdo:

but I don't remember what all they were :)

[03:44:04]

sphery:

same here

[03:44:14]

sphery:

just a vague, "and some upnp fixes" recollection

[03:44:16]

mycoDA:

katumba1 – is that vmalloc option shown when you cat /proc/cmdline ?

[03:44:19]

Lexridge:

lol

[03:44:27]

mycoDA:

(i have a bad feeling it is)

[03:44:50]

Lexridge:

at first, I thought it was a HandBrake encoding error, but quickly proved that wrong.

[03:45:06]

katumba1:

BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-28-generic-pae root=UUID=043d5660-9154-4961-b6a3–8240fc355686 ro quiet splash

[03:45:43]

sphery:

katumba1: are you selecting your custom boot line from grub?

[03:45:47]

mycoDA:

yay – it isnt

[03:45:50]

sphery:

doesn't seem to have the vmalloc in it

[03:46:00]

mycoDA:

there ur problem

[03:46:00]

Lexridge:

If I can make it work via samba on the WDTV box, then I just wont use the UPNP for that anymore. I still find it cool that Mythfrontend shows caller-id on incoming cell phone calls however.

[03:46:18]

mycoDA:

i am afraid i too know jack all of grub2

[03:46:36]

katumba1:

I'm not given an option. it just blows right by.

[03:46:51]

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[03:48:08]

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[03:48:17]

wagnerrp:

sphery: heres my delete thread replacement... http://pastebin.com/cQnCFaKv

[03:48:28]

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[03:48:31]

sphery:

katumba1: Hold down SHIFT to display the menu during boot (formerly ESC in GRUB legacy).

[03:48:34]

wagnerrp:

needs some work to handle symlinks

[03:49:01]

wagnerrp:

should return near instantly

[03:49:02]

katumba1:

ok. trying that.

[03:49:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so you keep it running forever?

[03:49:17]

wagnerrp:

yeah, single thread to handle all deletes

[03:49:30]

sphery:

katumba1: there's some way to modify the existing ones, too, but for now just select the custom one you created

[03:49:43]

wagnerrp:

with signals to call when a file is unlinked, or otherwise fails to unlink

[03:49:45]

sphery:

if it works, then ask some *buntites how to modify your default grub boot

[03:49:55]

Lexridge:

hey guys, thanks! I'll let you know what I figure out on this.

[03:50:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: rather than quit the thread when you're done with deletes and restart it when you get the next delete

[03:50:31]

sphery:

just mentioning since markk hopes to reduce the number of threads we have

[03:51:03]

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[03:51:07]

wagnerrp:

sphery: rather than having a new thread, and possibly multiple simultaneous threads, for each file to be deleted

[03:51:19]

wagnerrp:

it wouldnt be difficult to make it automatically close itself when empty

[03:51:29]

sphery:

yeah, that was what I was recommending

[03:51:31]

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[03:51:34]

wagnerrp:

and have the FileTransferHandler class open up a new one

[03:51:35]

sphery:

close when done

[03:51:41]

sphery:

then if there isn't one, restat

[03:51:44]

sphery:

restart, even

[03:51:49]

sphery:

next time we delete

[03:52:05]

wagnerrp:

the DeleteThread is supposed to be a private thread, accessible only to FileTransferHandler

[03:52:13]

katumba1:

only given 4 options: ubunto generic, generic recovery mode, memtest, memtest serial.

[03:52:23]

wagnerrp:

and those signals are routed through the handler, rather than run directly from the thread

[03:52:30]

sphery:

cool

[03:52:35]

wagnerrp:

so they wouldnt get disconnected when the thread shut down

[03:52:38]

sphery:

so this works into your new code?

[03:52:52]

wagnerrp:

i wont say works, but yes, intended for new code

[03:52:56]

sphery:

nice

[03:53:07]

wagnerrp:

FileTransferHandler is just a generic file server class

[03:53:08]

sphery:

btw, did you start on the mythcommandlineparser for mythjobqueue?

[03:53:26]

sphery:

if not, don't worry about it, and I'll get that done

[03:53:33]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt know anything about recordings or programs

[03:53:33]

sphery:

if so, then thanks for doing one of my todos

[03:53:40]

wagnerrp:

its just providing a generic truncating delete

[03:53:51]

sphery:

cool

[03:53:56]

sphery:

sounds good

[03:54:03]

wagnerrp:

something else would have to manage deletion of metadata when the fileUnlinked signal fired

[03:54:43]

wagnerrp:

i hadnt done anything with the command line parser yet, didnt know anything needed to be done

[03:54:53]

wagnerrp:

you mentioned something about moving it to a new system or something?

[03:55:06]

wagnerrp:

if you give me some pointers, i can take care of it

[03:55:55]

mycoDA:

katumba1 : might be time for a visit to #ubuntu (those guys $#!7 me) or #grub

[03:56:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: looks like it doesnt use the command line parser really at all

[03:56:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no worries... I'll do it

[03:56:29]

mycoDA:

#ubutntu-mythtv is another option, they are useful

[03:56:29]

wagnerrp:

it does all its own argument processing

[03:56:37]

sphery:

should be easy enough for you to merge with yours

[03:56:39]

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[03:56:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i havent touched any of that stuff

[03:57:06]

wagnerrp:

my stuff is all in the last dozen lines of main()

[03:57:12]

sphery:

yeah, TTBOMK, danielk's plan was to consolidate all command line processing for all apps with shared/similar args into mythcommandlineparser

[03:57:28]

sphery:

so was just going to do that as I work on the breakout of mythbackend

[04:00:43]

katumba1:

Ok, so that I can try and end my weeks long agony... lol. Can someone recommend a capture card that can get Digital and Analog off of one card (I really don't need more than 1 of each) that will work w/o any hassle?

[04:01:12]

sphery:

the 1600 will do both, but only one at a time, IIRC

[04:01:32]

sphery:

the 2250... think it can do either 2 digital or 2 analog or 1 + 1

[04:01:39]

sphery:

not sure, though

[04:01:52]

sphery:

meaning--you should have cards that can do what you want... just need to get the right setup

[04:01:55]

mycoDA:

katumba1 – just go with a 64bit install should solve the last issue ur having

[04:01:56]

sphery:

(which is the challenging part)

[04:02:59]

katumba1:

myco: so drop the mythbuntu install and do a 64 bit install from ubuntu?

[04:03:39]

sphery:

there's a 64-bit mythbuntu

[04:03:46]

mycoDA:

either way

[04:03:54]

mycoDA:

mythbuntu will likely be less hassle

[04:04:02]

mycoDA:

but you can add mythbuntu to a server install

[04:04:03]

sphery:

agreed... I recommend mythbuntu

[04:04:08]

sphery:

just go with the 64-bit one

[04:04:37]

sphery:

katumba1: http://www.mythbuntu.org/downloads, then choose "Advanced Options", then under "Architecture", choose 64-bit

[04:04:45]

katumba1:

ah, just saw that 64 bit option... Doah!

[04:04:47]

mycoDA:

64 bit allocates 1G to the vm by default, so that issue will be well gone

[04:05:19]

sphery:

katumba1: heh, yeah, not the easiest to find--and not obvious that it's not "autodetecting" the proper one for you or something

[04:05:46]

katumba1:

and, of course, it times out on download. LOL.

[04:06:11]

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[04:06:13]

sphery:

generally, 32-bit is the "always works" one, but in your case, the 64-bit will be easier since you won't have to worry about vmalloc

[04:06:34]

sphery:

could use bit torrent

[04:06:51]

mycoDA:

could also use one of many mirrors

[04:07:12]

sphery:

that way, you'd help the bit torrent users get the percentage of legal downloads via bit torrent up to 0.00000000001%

[04:07:22]

katumba1:

DL'ing now. 57 min remaining. Will update. Thanks everyone!

[04:07:25]

mycoDA:

roflmao

[04:07:28]

sphery:

heh, good luck

[04:07:33]

wagnerrp:

i dont think its quite THAT low

[04:07:36]

mycoDA:

hopefully is the last issue licked

[04:07:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, ok, so maybe I exaggerated a bit :)

[04:08:03]

sphery:

still, I expect it's in single digits at most

[04:09:00]

mycoDA:

rly? given how commonly torrenting 'linux distros' is discussed on sites that care about legality? lol

[04:09:24]

sphery:

yeah, all the torrenting of linux distros and libreoffice and such is legal

[04:09:35]

sphery:

I just expect that's still a tiny percentage of uage

[04:09:36]

sphery:

usage

[04:15:25]

wagnerrp:

sphery: ok, timer added

[04:15:33]

sphery:

coo,

[04:15:37]

sphery:

cool

[04:15:40]

sphery:

can't type tonight

[04:15:48]

wagnerrp:

if there are no truncations, or new files opened in 5 seconds, the thread auto-terminates

[04:15:52]

wagnerrp:

and gets restarted as needed

[04:17:29]

sphery:

sounds good

[04:17:57]

sphery:

and all those changes will really help with lowering idle thread count

[04:18:23]

sphery:

all those meaning, mostly your initial changes + the one extra thread at the end

[04:18:48]

wagnerrp:

we could do the same for mythsystem

[04:19:05]

wagnerrp:

its running four management threads that dont really need to exist if theres nothing running

[04:19:18]

wagnerrp:

theyre just sitting there in a sleep loop

[04:19:22]

sphery:

that's up to you

[04:19:35]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: ^^^ ?

[04:19:37]

sphery:

don't know how starting new threads would affect performance

[04:19:50]

sphery:

I know performance isn't an issue for the actual file deletion

[04:20:03]

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[04:20:04]

wagnerrp:

nor is it really an issue for external process management

[04:20:07]

sphery:

(only triggering the delete quickly is important)

[04:20:31]

wagnerrp:

since external processes will take far longer than a single thread

[04:20:32]

Kernel:

Hello all. Anyone here of a hdpvr cutting out mid recording?

[04:21:00]

sphery:

in playback the screensaver code calls xscreensaver-command or gnome-screensaver-command once every minute, iirc, so might want to have the timer wait for 2min before shutting down, maybe?

[04:21:11]

Kernel:

Twice tonight my hdpvr has stopped recording then the blue light flashing off and on a few time

[04:21:23]

[R]:

Kernel: it does that sometimes

[04:21:30]

[R]:

Kernel: you'll see an error in your log

[04:21:56]

Kernel:

Now when im watching livetv...after changing channels a few times mythfrontend looses connectivity to the backend

[04:22:12]

Kernel:

And wont work again until I restart the b acke d

[04:22:17]

Kernel:

Hmm

[04:22:37]

Kernel:

I glanced the logs over and did not see anything

[04:22:45]

[R]:

sounds like yoru bakcned died

[04:22:49]

Kernel:

Granted im doing this on my droid

[04:22:57]

Kernel:

It showed up in ps

[04:23:06]

Kernel:

But maybe it was zombied?

[04:23:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: hmmm.. 50s, it seems

[04:24:07]

sphery:

either backend is dying or you're having network (socket) issues

[04:24:23]

Beirdo:

no need to tear down the mythsystem threads just to restart them over and over

[04:24:38]

sphery:

socket issues should show up in the logs

[04:24:44]

Beirdo:

any system with say.... a tuning script... will need it all the time

[04:25:15]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: sure, but there are huge gaps where it will never run

[04:25:23]

Beirdo:

or... any system where you play video

[04:25:24]

Kernel:

Let me hop on my comp real quick....im Wicked

[04:25:24]

wagnerrp:

on the opposite side... its not like theyre taking any power

[04:25:39]

Beirdo:

as it goes and runs the pulseaudio check a LOT

[04:25:43]

wagnerrp:

and if you need to free the memory for some reason, you really just need more memory

[04:26:04]

Beirdo:

it's more of a PITA to cleanly shut it down and restart than to use the little bit of memory it uses

[04:26:41]

Beirdo:

if you really need more memory... remove some pretty theme pics from memory for a moment :)

[04:26:44]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:26:48]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[04:27:00]

sphery:

just figured for the delete thread, it made sense to shut it down

[04:27:04]

Beirdo:

or buy more memory :)

[04:27:06]

sphery:

since deletes don't happen that often

[04:28:47]

Beirdo:

I dunno.. anyways, I'm getting durnk, so maybe my brainpower's a touch low at the moment too :)

[04:28:50]

Wicked:

http://pastebin.com/t0XNA6Z4

[04:29:12]

Wicked:

1st part is my frontend and the rest if from the back

[04:29:41]

Wicked:

when it could not connect to the backend...im still able to ping it

[04:29:47]

Wicked:

so the machine is responsive

[04:31:40]

Wicked:

i see a mythsocket error on the backend as well

[04:31:41]

Wicked:

2011-04–08 00:06:37.822 MythSocket(7f86a45dd9c0:-1): writeStringList: Error, No data written on writeBlock (1 errors)

[04:31:54]

Wicked:

no idea really what that could mean hehe

[04:32:36]

wagnerrp:

well it was all of about 20 lines to allow it to terminate itself, so why not...

[04:34:30]

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[04:46:36]

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[04:55:05]

mycoDA:

any sign of katumba1?

[04:57:14]

wagnerrp:

!seen katumba1

[04:57:14]

MythLogBot:

katumba1 is here and has been idle for 49 minutes 52 seconds

[04:59:59]

katumba1:

still downloading. lol...

[05:01:01]

mycoDA:

cool lol

[05:01:10]

mycoDA:

jus wondering how it was goin

[05:01:14]

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[05:01:18]

mycoDA:

hopefully that is it

[05:01:24]

katumba1:

4 min remaining...

[05:01:44]

mycoDA:

having had my share of battles getting stuff up over the years for myth etc, i can assure you it is well worth it

[05:01:54]

katumba1:

My RoomGinTonic was conveying me cocktails.

[05:02:11]

mycoDA:

it does stuff nothing else cam, with a UI that just feels natural, like an appliance not a PC

[05:02:34]

mycoDA:

nobody even realises there is a PC hidden behind my 56" til i show em

[05:02:39]

mycoDA:

*can

[05:03:03]

katumba1:

yeah, the bit I got to use I absolutely loved.

[05:03:10]

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[05:05:57]

katumba1:

burning to disk

[05:07:51]

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[05:21:18]

** mycoDA remembers he needs tgo upgrade recordings to ext4 **

[05:21:55]

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[05:28:04]

Shadow__X:

i think my desktop mb died :(

[05:31:01]

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mycoDA:

why do you say that shadow_x ?

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Shadow__X:

i booted it installed updates then shut it down. Installed a pcie esata card and when i turned it back on the fans spin up but no post

[05:39:16]

Shadow__X:

and i havnt had post since

[05:40:26]

mycoDA:

did you power off at the psu/wall before puttin in the card?

[05:41:14]

sphery:

could also be overloading the psu?

[05:41:48]

mycoDA:

unlikely for a pcie card to tip it over sphery

[05:42:07]

mycoDA:

would expect the machine to have been unstable as hell before hand if it did

[05:42:29]

clever:

only time ive ever had brownout issues was too many HDD's, current spike at startup

[05:42:52]

mycoDA:

yeah – that is a gotcha alright

[05:43:03]

sphery:

I saw it with 3x pchdtv 3000

[05:43:07]

sphery:

2x works fine

[05:44:05]

mycoDA:

thats a lot more power than an esata card

[05:45:11]

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Shadow__X:

sphery: nope 700watt psu and i had the card in here prior to this

[05:45:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: can't do a lookup table? pusher e-mail x = trac user y?

[05:45:35]

Shadow__X:

i am under 700watt easily

[05:45:59]

mycoDA:

what make of PSU?

[05:46:02]

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[05:46:06]

sphery:

total draw is meaningless

[05:46:09]

wagnerrp:

if i knew what i was doing, maybe

[05:46:09]

Shadow__X:

the machine has always been stable before this and yes it was off before installing the card

[05:46:13]

sphery:

gotta keep each output within range

[05:46:21]

sphery:

still, it is unlikely

[05:46:21]

wagnerrp:

assuming the pusher's emails and trac's accounts match

[05:46:26]

mycoDA:

plenty of PSUs arent capable of 1/3rd of their rated at peak

[05:46:28]

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[05:46:34]

sphery:

but was worth mentioning when I had no idea what psu you had

[05:46:51]

Shadow__X:

sphery: yeah i agree put these are the specs 1 640gb wd black,q6600 stock speed,2x 1gb ocz ram,geforce 9800gt

[05:46:53]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: huh?

[05:46:56]

Shadow__X:

i hope the psu can handle that

[05:47:03]

mycoDA:

good psus are the opposite, my 550W is capable of 650W continuous

[05:47:09]

Shadow__X:

ocz psu

[05:47:11]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that psu should be serious overkill for that

[05:47:22]

sphery:

and is likely running at seriously low load = low efficiency

[05:47:31]

mycoDA:

yeah, an ocz should be at least capable of rated if not fantastic

[05:47:56]

Shadow__X:

already tried another psu,cpu,ram

[05:48:08]

mycoDA:

wagnerrp – cheap PSUs are commonly not even capable of a peak load even 1/3rd their rated without going way outside spec

[05:48:16]

Shadow__X:

reset cmos but jumper and removing the ram

[05:48:17]

sphery:

(i.e. 80 PLUS PSUs are guaranteed to provide > 80% efficiency over a range from 20% to 100% load, but below 20% are drop off fast)

[05:48:22]

wagnerrp:

oh, youre talking about voltage specs

[05:48:37]

wagnerrp:

more than 1/3 their rated and theyre outside voltage tolerances

[05:48:38]

Shadow__X:

sphery: yeah i know the plan was to get a higher spec video card eventually

[05:48:38]

mycoDA:

and working at all, some of em go bang at about 1/3rd arted

[05:48:50]

sphery:

and non-80-PLUS PSUs typically have efficiencies around 70–85% at one load, and drop off quickly on both sides

[05:48:52]

wagnerrp:

ive never seen one perform that poorly

[05:48:58]

mycoDA:

but even mopre are bad enough not to boot

[05:49:10]

mycoDA:

do you buy cheap generics tho wagnerrp?

[05:49:18]

wagnerrp:

we do at work

[05:49:22]

mycoDA:

yipe

[05:49:23]

wagnerrp:

POS inwin garbage

[05:49:28]

wagnerrp:

inwin is the devil

[05:49:32]

mycoDA:

that is a step above generic lol

[05:49:37]

mycoDA:

believe it or not

[05:49:40]

wagnerrp:

DEVIL... Devil... devil... dvl...

[05:49:47]

mycoDA:

prolly up there with the cheap thermaltakes

[05:50:02]

wagnerrp:

thermaltakes are bad?

[05:50:12]

wagnerrp:

i knew there was some reason i didnt like that company

[05:50:18]

sphery:

heh, was going to say thermaltake sounds like a trustworthy name

[05:50:24]

mycoDA:

not all wagnerrp

[05:50:33]

sphery:

all japanese and high tech

[05:50:56]

mycoDA:

their top units are fantastic, just overpriced (identical corsair is cheaper and rated lower)

[05:51:04]

mycoDA:

and hard to beat the lifitim e wty

[05:51:15]

mycoDA:

but their TP series is epic crap

[05:51:17]

Shadow__X:

the next thing i am going to do is try ddr 667 ram as some people are saying they have luck with that but what really gets me is i am not getting any beeps

[05:51:30]

wagnerrp:

i just think theyre too close in name to thermalright, and produce flashy crap with LEDs

[05:51:48]

wagnerrp:

like their sullying thermalright's name or something

[05:51:53]

mycoDA:

have you stripped back to just CPU RAM and GPU if needed, nothing else (inc front panel) connected?

[05:51:56]

sphery:

or chinese, it seems

[05:52:47]

Shadow__X:

mycoDA: i have stripped it down to gpu,cpu,ram out of the case. tried just cpu,ram tried just cpu and have just tried the plain board itself

[05:52:56]

Shadow__X:

and i am not getting any beeps what so ever

[05:53:13]

mycoDA:

i presume with speaker plugged in lol

[05:53:39]

sphery:

It's official. I don't like Detective Tritter

[05:53:43]

mycoDA:

but yeah, just cpu and mobo and speaker and power, no beeps = cactus board (could be cpu but that is rare as)

[05:53:47]

Shadow__X:

yes

[05:53:52]

[R]:

i'm watching some cop show

[05:53:58]

[R]:

and this one cop keeps putting on hand sanitizer

[05:53:59]

wagnerrp:

detective tritter?

[05:54:00]

[R]:

its hilarious

[05:54:18]

Shadow__X:

i tried cpu in other board and it beeped. What really bothers me though is that it was literally just working and all i did was install the known good card

[05:54:20]

sphery:

wagnerrp: in House

[05:54:22]

sphery:

S3

[05:54:24]

wagnerrp:

house... that the guy going after house for drug overdose?

[05:54:26]

justinh:

what is it – CSI OCD?

[05:54:27]

sphery:

yeah

[05:54:35]

wagnerrp:

well youre not supposed to like him

[05:54:43]

[R]:

justinh: k9 cop shwo

[05:54:55]

sphery:

[R]: not Monk?

[05:55:01]

[R]:

no

[05:55:14]

[R]:

Unleashed: K9 Broward County

[05:55:20]

sphery:

heh

[05:57:33]

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[05:57:34]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: is .gitignore recorsuve?

[05:57:53]

wagnerrp:

meaning it will use all gitignore files up to the top of the tree?

[05:58:05]

Beirdo:

yes

[05:58:12]

Beirdo:

it applies them from top down

[05:59:43]

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[05:59:49]

Beirdo:

so if you are in say... mythtv/programs/mythbackend, it will apply /.gitignore, then /mythtv/.gitignore, then /mythtv/programs/.gitignore, then /mythtv/programs/mythbackend/.gitignore

[06:00:33]

wagnerrp:

how do i specify a single branch in a push?

[06:00:40]

wagnerrp:

just 'git push <branch>'?

[06:00:49]

Beirdo:

git push origin branch

[06:01:13]

mycoDA:

shadow__x – static?

[06:01:16]

Beirdo:

gotta tell it which remote :)

[06:01:44]

Shadow__X:

card was in antistatic card and i was grounded the entire time i was in the case

[06:02:15]

wagnerrp:

you know, i have never zapped a piece of electronics

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[06:02:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:02:52]

Shadow__X:

i do appreciate the suggestions though as other than the fact i read somewhere to try slower ram i am out of ideas

[06:02:53]

Beirdo:

I blew up some once

[06:03:06]

Beirdo:

note: do NOT put in a 7805 backwards

[06:03:10]

wagnerrp:

i had an uncle kill a video card

[06:03:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: that makes 2 of us... and I don't use the bracelet or anything

[06:03:26]

Beirdo:

I put 12V into the output rather than the input by mistake

[06:03:41]

wagnerrp:

had his hand in the case while the machine was running, wedding ring shorted two contacts

[06:03:44]

Beirdo:

half the part flew across the room as shrapnel

[06:03:55]

Beirdo:

ooooh, that's bad

[06:04:06]

mycoDA:

knew a guy who destroyed a playstationi – pulled it apart on carpet (i wanded him) and zapped the vram

[06:04:24]

mycoDA:

*playstation

[06:04:41]

Beirdo:

meanwhile, I often debug boards lying on the carpet

[06:04:48]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[06:05:03]

** justinh has seen the end result of static damage.. electron microscoped dissections of chips :) **

[06:05:22]

sphery:

only time I've ever blown up electronics was a) power fail during a low-level HDD format (back in the day)--took out onboard IDE controller, b) lightning strike near house pumped a huge surge through cable line to cable modem (took out cable modem, NIC, router), and c) various PSUs burning up during normal use (or in Monday's case, while not in use, but plugged in)

[06:05:25]

wagnerrp:

im surprised i didnt kill some RAM once

[06:05:26]

** mycoDA is cautious – comes from a time where static damage was common **

[06:05:33]

wagnerrp:

wasnt thinking and pulled while the machine was still on

[06:05:34]

Beirdo:

justinh: yeah, I know it happens, but it's not half as common as some people think

[06:05:42]

justinh:

the majority of devices have a lot of protection from ESD – some more than others

[06:05:49]

mycoDA:

so easy to avoid, why take risk

[06:06:02]

justinh:

and whether damage results in something dying immediately or not depends on the level of charge of course

[06:06:12]

mycoDA:

these days yeah justinh, in the 80s/90s not so much

[06:06:28]

justinh:

and sometimes, no ill will come of a discharge – which is likely why most people haven't experienced it first hand

[06:06:36]

sphery:

wagnerrp: nice... hot-swapped the ram and didn't kill it or the mobo

[06:06:50]

wagnerrp:

didnt swap, just pulled

[06:07:02]

wagnerrp:

old slot P3

[06:07:02]

justinh:

sphery: I've seen a good amount of lightning damaged stuff too. Crispy!

[06:07:08]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[06:07:15]

Shadow__X:

nice

[06:07:26]

Beirdo:

yeah, lightning blew the crap outta my 286

[06:07:31]

sphery:

was pretty neat--it blew a chunk of ceramic off the chip on the NIC

[06:07:35]

justinh:

no longer a PCB where the PCB was.. just this kind of charred rectangular thing

[06:07:38]

Beirdo:

the only thing that worked after was the keyboard

[06:07:44]

sphery:

(actually, that was integrated NIC--it took out the whole mobo)

[06:07:50]

mycoDA:

seen some amazing damage to 486 etc with inmodems

[06:07:56]

mycoDA:

from lightening

[06:08:15]

justinh:

we carry boards around here without ESD protection all the time

[06:08:17]

Beirdo:

oh, my external modem was good... as it was unplugged from the wall and the computer at the time

[06:08:20]

sphery:

mine was just induced current, too--not a direct strike

[06:08:35]

Beirdo:

mine was a strike about a block away

[06:08:37]

sphery:

haven't seen any charred boards

[06:08:37]

mycoDA:

this was in a store in my teens

[06:08:49]

justinh:

sphery: ones I've seen more recently were due to cameras outside being hit

[06:08:50]

mycoDA:

people nbring em in for a quote for insurance

[06:09:10]

Beirdo:

yeah, my insurance company asked for a quote.

[06:09:11]

mycoDA:

half the guts of the machine just black

[06:09:11]

sphery:

ah, that makes sense

[06:09:13]

justinh:

conducted straight up the ground of the coax...

[06:09:13]

Beirdo:

then shafted me

[06:09:21]

Beirdo:

i.e. wouldn't pay out

[06:09:22]

sphery:

especially with as many cameras as there are outside, these days

[06:09:35]

mycoDA:

what was their xcuse beirdo

[06:09:37]

Beirdo:

even WITH a specific policy rider for lightning storms

[06:09:47]

Beirdo:

they said it wasn't lightning.

[06:09:51]

Beirdo:

uh huh

[06:10:03]

justinh:

we have 'lightning protection' on the boards, but I tell you, one little surface mounted device is *not* going to dissipate a strike

[06:10:03]

sphery:

Beirdo: you're supposed to use a UPS and get the $50000 protection

[06:10:12]

sphery:

wonder if /anyone/ has ever collected on one of those

[06:10:23]

sphery:

I'm guessing it's not easy

[06:10:24]

Beirdo:

musta been an EMP next door then

[06:10:29]

Beirdo:

it FRIED the machine

[06:10:37]

justinh:

heheh

[06:10:57]

sphery:

Beirdo: oh, was this while you were in PR? I was building an EMP generator and cranked it up a bit too far... would have just reached PR

[06:10:59]

wagnerrp:

well you know... they were trying to rob a casino

[06:11:03]

mycoDA:

lightning protection aint worth shit

[06:11:13]

Beirdo:

nah, it was in Canada... in 1993

[06:11:18]

sphery:

ah, that one wasn't me

[06:11:30]

mycoDA:

a spark gap with a MASSIVE ground might do something, but certainly nothing you can plug in will

[06:11:31]

justinh:

I've had to repair a relative's machine which was knocked out by a lightning strike once... dunno where the strike was but it killed a clock radio alarm & the PC PSU

[06:11:33]

sphery:

I didn't get upset with Canada until they cancelled all the Stargates

[06:11:56]

Beirdo:

gege

[06:11:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:11:58]

[R]:

when i was in school lightning struck the tree outside the building i was working in

[06:12:08]

Beirdo:

and until the CDN$ > US$ again?

[06:12:19]

Beirdo:

which sucks

[06:12:25]

justinh:

sphery: top tip – to stop the CCTV stuff we make just interrupt the power for a second & it'll buy you up to 4 minutes while the machine reboots :P

[06:12:42]

sphery:

only reason Canada isn't seeing a "re-run" of Jericho is because they still have Flashpoint

[06:12:43]

mycoDA:

AUD > USD makes me lol

[06:12:52]

Beirdo:

mycoDA: yeah, taht too

[06:12:56]

justinh:

nobody ever fits a UPS.. and even if they do there's no means of the UPS talking to the DVR

[06:13:05]

mycoDA:

suts me fine lol

[06:13:09]

sphery:

I remember when we in the US would joke about how worthless Canadian $ were

[06:13:25]

mycoDA:

i should so get a UPS

[06:13:26]

Beirdo:

someone at work last week did

[06:13:40]

Beirdo:

and I laughed at him and told him to go check that on Google

[06:14:00]

sphery:

I unplugged all my UPSs and have increased my network reliability by orders of magnitude since doing so

[06:14:02]

Beirdo:

he was about 3 years out of date

[06:14:17]

sphery:

and haven't seen any indication of greater frequency of failure

[06:14:36]

Beirdo:

as long as your power grid stays ON,....

[06:14:40]

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[06:14:46]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh... surprised anyone in the US would think the US $ is worth anything

[06:14:53]

wagnerrp:

heh... had a problem with that one last week

[06:14:58]

sphery:

and, yeah, we do have reliable power here

[06:15:06]

wagnerrp:

squirrel on the transformer

[06:15:12]

clever:

heh

[06:15:17]

sphery:

the hurricanes make for nice reliable power--they build the infrastructure with a /lot/ of redundancy

[06:15:21]

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[06:15:22]

wagnerrp:

it might still be dead on the ground next to the pole

[06:15:23]

Beirdo:

yummy squirrel

[06:15:32]

Beirdo:

fried

[06:15:33]

sphery:

wagnerrp: Squirrel Bits

[06:15:38]

wagnerrp:

unless one of the neighborhood cats, or crows, got it

[06:15:40]

sphery:

or Squirrel on a Stick?

[06:15:41]

Beirdo:

kaZOT

[06:15:57]

sphery:

think that's worth about 4 cps

[06:15:59]

sphery:

caps

[06:16:02]

mycoDA:

sphery – we live in a city of <10,000 people, nearest city of similar size is 30k away

[06:16:10]

mycoDA:

we dont have the most reliable power lol

[06:16:12]

sphery:

heh

[06:16:13]

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[06:16:18]

sphery:

yeah, my parents are in a similar place

[06:16:19]

Beirdo:

4 copper pieces? :)

[06:16:28]

sphery:

town of 4K--that runs their own power generator

[06:16:34]

sphery:

diesel, no less

[06:16:54]

Shadow__X:

are all their roads paved?

[06:17:05]

Beirdo:

what are roads?

[06:17:30]

wagnerrp:

sphery: nah, not worth it for the rads it gives you

[06:17:32]

sphery:

heh, now, they were the biggest city in the county... and when I left there for college, they even had one stop light

[06:17:42]

sphery:

now they have 2

[06:17:55]

mycoDA:

youch – we are in coal country, so generation is not an issue

[06:18:02]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah... I just sell them--but I have a huge stock of meds

[06:18:13]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: i thought we were coal country

[06:18:30]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well in vegas, you have to eat

[06:18:32]

mycoDA:

afaik this is the largest coal producing area in the world

[06:18:45]

sphery:

I thought <name redacted to protect the guilty> was going to shut down all coal fired power plants

[06:18:52]

sphery:

after all, coal is black, not green

[06:18:53]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[06:18:54]

mycoDA:

certainly the port puts thru more coal than any other

[06:19:00]

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[06:20:12]

wagnerrp:

looks like we still do about double the coal as you guys

[06:20:19]

wagnerrp:

but china beats us both combined

[06:20:32]

Beirdo:

and for lead too

[06:20:34]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:20:45]

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[06:20:45]

Beirdo:

especially in children's toys

[06:20:49]

sphery:

mmmmm... yummy lead!

[06:21:06]

mycoDA:

the hunter valley wagnerrp? newcastle coal terminal?

[06:21:20]

mycoDA:

(not talkin a whole country)

[06:22:02]

Beirdo:

well in the US, it's what? KY, PA, WV, TN, VA?

[06:22:15]

Beirdo:

large chunks thereof anyways

[06:22:36]

Beirdo:

I'm sure I missed somewhere

[06:22:38]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:23:08]

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[06:23:09]

wagnerrp:

some bits in montana, wyoming, north dakota

[06:23:32]

Beirdo:

ah

[06:23:42]

wagnerrp:

more bits in illinois, missouri, iowa

[06:24:14]

Beirdo:

but the major areas are near/in the Appalacians (sp?) IIRC

[06:24:30]

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[06:24:48]

Beirdo:

good ole redneck territory :)

[06:24:52]

mycoDA:

newcasle is the second oldest city in australia, was settled entirely for coal

[06:25:08]

mycoDA:

*Newcastle

[06:25:44]

wagnerrp:

like a thousand miles of appalachia?

[06:26:01]

sphery:

mycoDA: and now they make brown ale?

[06:26:09]

sphery:

hope it's not coal brown

[06:26:15]

mycoDA:

have for a long long time lol

[06:26:25]

mycoDA:

a miner has to drink u know lol

[06:26:29]

sphery:

heh

[06:26:53]

Beirdo:

I'd have to drink a LOT to get me to be a miner

[06:27:01]

sphery:

yeah

[06:27:03]

mycoDA:

current exports from newcastle coal terminal 100MegatTon of coal (2009–10) planned to expand to 180 for 2013

[06:27:25]

Beirdo:

so you are responsible for the global warming.

[06:27:29]

Beirdo:

shame on you ;)

[06:27:30]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[06:27:47]

Beirdo:

of course... if there was no demand...

[06:27:53]

mycoDA:

rofl – hey we arent tho ones burnin it

[06:28:00]

wagnerrp:

so theyre ramping up

[06:28:21]

wagnerrp:

wikipedia puts them equivalent to the biggest US mines at ~90MT/yr

[06:28:33]

mycoDA:

used to be a lot of steel too, but BHP shut up shop here

[06:28:40]

wagnerrp:

but these are 2007 numbers

[06:28:43]

Beirdo:

oh FFS.

[06:28:53]

** sphery doesn't make a comment about the number of coal miners who died during the same time period no one at the Japanese nuke plants died while handling cleanup after a natural disaster much larger than their old reactors were designed to handle **

[06:28:59]

Beirdo:

why didn't anyone tell me the 32-bit slave cacked out?

[06:29:04]

sphery:

yet who got all the media attention?

[06:29:30]

mycoDA:

that is just the port wagnerrp, doesnt count anything used locally or sent out by train

[06:29:43]

wagnerrp:

but its nukular.. its dangerous

[06:29:43]

mycoDA:

is the largest coal port in the world

[06:29:47]

mycoDA:

lol

[06:30:03]

wagnerrp:

friggen Carter, screwed it for all of us

[06:30:07]

sphery:

Hmmm.. Coltrane?

[06:30:22]

mycoDA:

nuclear power still has massive massive issues with lifecycle cost – i dont see it as pratical despite the hype

[06:30:42]

sphery:

mycoDA: yeah, but not for technological reasons... just policy and politics

[06:30:45]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: no, nuclear power in its current form has massive massive issues with livecycle costs

[06:31:01]

wagnerrp:

the current form being restricted by non-proliferation concerns

[06:31:08]

sphery:

that said, at least we have about 250 years of natural gas available

[06:31:14]

mycoDA:

is more waste storage and decommission costs sphery

[06:31:31]

mycoDA:

fast breeders help that a little but not enough

[06:31:35]

sphery:

just have to set off huge explosions to fracture shale structures /way/ undergrownd

[06:31:39]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: again, because of proliferation concerns, not because of any inherent problem with nuclear reactors

[06:31:49]

wagnerrp:

fast breeders and fuel reprocessing help a LOT

[06:31:52]

sphery:

unfounded proliferation concerns, too

[06:31:59]

sphery:

plutonium is not a weapons material

[06:32:08]

mycoDA:

the duration of storage is an issue too wagnerrp

[06:32:17]

sphery:

Pu-239 is

[06:32:24]

wagnerrp:

as in... we'd have like 2% the waste we currently would using breeders and reprocessors

[06:32:24]

Shadow__X:

sphery: then we get to light our water on fire

[06:32:34]

Beirdo:

eat more tacos. then we'll have more natural gas

[06:32:49]

sphery:

in a reactor, you'll make Pu that's a mix of enough other isotopes you'd still have to enrich it to make weapons material

[06:32:58]

mycoDA:

biomass and solar thermal and wind and other 'renewable' techs have high startup costs, but lifecycle costs are relatively low

[06:33:16]

sphery:

and, in truth, storage isn't an issue with today's solid storage tech

[06:33:23]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: yes, and light water reactors are particularly bad about the kinds of wastes they produce, and the halflife

[06:33:29]

sphery:

only issue is getting approval to put that waste somewhere

[06:33:37]

sphery:

since no one wants it "in my backyard"

[06:33:37]

Beirdo:

space.

[06:33:44]

Beirdo:

the final trash heap

[06:33:59]

sphery:

ah, but we can't pollute the clean environment of space... it's so pristine and unpolluted by man

[06:34:01]

mycoDA:

none of the synrock technologies have been around long anough to be sure of sphery

[06:34:01]

wagnerrp:

were we allowed to reprocess it, waste transmution would go a long way to elimination those medium lived isotopes

[06:34:10]

mycoDA:

^^^^

[06:34:21]

Beirdo:

sphery: tell that to the satellites that get smashed by coke cans

[06:34:23]

Shadow__X:

let it be earths inhabitants issue in 1000 years

[06:34:34]

Shadow__X:

a big stinky meteor

[06:34:40]

sphery:

I agree that reprocessing isn't bad (though it's actually more expensive than not--due to the low cost of Uranium)

[06:34:46]

wagnerrp:

exactly, in 1000 years, we will have developed a cheap way to get the crap into orbit :)

[06:34:51]

sphery:

just saying that not reprocessing isn't really a problem

[06:34:56]

sphery:

once you have a storage site

[06:35:03]

sphery:

and, really, why store it for 1000 years

[06:35:09]

Shadow__X:

when we take ideas from futurama we know we are doing things write

[06:35:16]

sphery:

store it until the cost of using it in breeders is less than the cost of new Uranium

[06:35:21]

Beirdo:

eek, can't even ssh to the 32-bit build slave

[06:35:27]

mycoDA:

it already is sphery

[06:35:47]

mycoDA:

policy is what is holding breeders back, not economics

[06:35:49]

Beirdo:

not in Canada near the uranium mines :)

[06:36:02]

sphery:

Uranium is cheap

[06:36:09]

sphery:

reprocessing is more expensive

[06:36:12]

Beirdo:

especially in Northern Canada

[06:36:18]

sphery:

see France's numbers for proof

[06:36:40]

mycoDA:

think life cycle again sphery

[06:36:50]

sphery:

still, reprocessing and breeders are cheaper than other forms of generation--especially when policy is done right

[06:36:54]

Beirdo:

yeah, but that's biased by the amount of wine drunk by the statisticians

[06:36:59]

wagnerrp:

sphery: fast breeders use the much cheaper un-enriched uranium, and the much much cheaper thorium, with a fuel cycle that would easily output 20x the energy for a given fuel quantity

[06:36:59]

sphery:

heh

[06:37:03]

mycoDA:

may be cheap to get, but is inefficent (you need a lot more) and you have a LOT of waste to dela with

[06:37:19]

sphery:

wagnerrp: my point is that the fuel is a negligible cost

[06:37:27]

sphery:

it's the handling and processing that's expensive

[06:38:10]

sphery:

anyway, whichever approach is still cheaper than alternatives when you take out the policy costs

[06:38:53]

mycoDA:

not so sure

[06:38:54]

sphery:

and public fear and government over-spec'ed safety standards and such

[06:39:06]

wagnerrp:

sphery: enrichment is expensive, which you dont have to do for breeders

[06:39:08]

mycoDA:

life cycle costs for a lot of renewables are epically low

[06:39:23]

mycoDA:

just startup investment is high

[06:39:23]

wagnerrp:

waste handling is expensive, which you dont have as much to deal with for breeders

[06:40:19]

Beirdo:

well this is swell

[06:40:46]

mycoDA:

?beirdo?

[06:41:08]

wagnerrp:

well india's probably going to be the country to take off using breeders

[06:41:21]

wagnerrp:

theyve got tons of thorium, but little uranium

[06:41:26]

Beirdo:

don't they do enough breeding already?

[06:41:43]

mycoDA:

rofl

[06:41:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, for them it makes sense because they have thorium and don't have a lot of uranium

[06:41:58]

Beirdo:

well, high-rez ain't around

[06:42:11]

Beirdo:

I need him to fix the server, it seems

[06:42:12]

wagnerrp:

you mean [R]?

[06:42:18]

wagnerrp:

oh

[06:42:18]

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[06:42:35]

Beirdo:

nah, the 32-bit buildbot slave is borked right now

[06:42:41]

Beirdo:

been down for 29h

[06:42:56]

Beirdo:

trying to ssh to it, can't

[06:43:18]

Beirdo:

ah well

[06:43:47]

Beirdo:

I'll try to get him to boot it in the head

[06:43:50]

Beirdo:

or somehting

[06:43:57]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's wikipedia, but it agrees with everything I've seen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power#Breeding

[06:44:04]

sphery:

Breeder technology has been used in several reactors, but the high cost of reprocessing fuel safely requires uranium prices of more than 200 USD/kg before becoming justified economically.[77]

[06:44:31]

mycoDA:

depends on the breeder technology

[06:46:06]

sphery:

also says that fusion would be a good way to go

[06:46:07]

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[06:46:08]

sphery:

:)

[06:46:33]

mycoDA:

if we can master it sure

[06:46:52]

mycoDA:

we need to do something akin to the manhattan project for fusion

[06:47:00]

Beirdo:

oooh, should make PDFs

[06:47:41]

wagnerrp:

isnt that what ITER is supposed to be?

[06:47:45]

sphery:

mycoDA: the Brooklyn Project?

[06:48:05]

sphery:

tokamak

[06:48:19]

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[06:48:33]

mycoDA:

tokamaks arent working over unity yet

[06:48:59]

mycoDA:

we need SERIOUS inverstment, a massive focus, like the manhattan project had

[06:49:20]

mycoDA:

laser confinement isnt working over unity either

[06:49:45]

mycoDA:

so both schemes (laser and magnetic) have so far failed to work, to reach 'ignition'

[06:49:58]

sphery:

right, fusion has a long way to go

[06:50:26]

mycoDA:

it should by rights be getting more funding than wars, it is far more important

[06:50:28]

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[06:50:40]

mycoDA:

but our global economy is too dependant on the war machine

[06:50:55]

sphery:

I thought wars were what funded all the real research :)

[06:51:16]

sphery:

or wars result in the scare that results in funding the real research

[06:51:24]

wagnerrp:

or more exotic types, like muon fusion

[06:52:14]

mycoDA:

doesnt seem to be that way atm sphery – we have no opponent advanced enough to bother with that sort of thing

[06:53:00]

sphery:

yeah

[06:53:30]

sphery:

and we're instead stopping spending on research and saying, "The free market will find a cheap source of energy."

[06:53:38]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: sure, but its getting us the launch facilities to 'dispose' of all that waste permanently

[06:53:45]

wagnerrp:

the navy is only an order of magnitude off

[06:53:46]

wagnerrp:

:)

[06:54:11]

sphery:

i.e. shut down all the coal fired power plants because they're causing global warming, and don't build nuclear because they're dangerous and can blow up, and don't use diesel

[06:54:38]

sphery:

and soemone in the US will invent something new

[06:55:15]

clever:

sphery: just ask john titor for help!

[06:55:17]

mycoDA:

lol sphery – sounds like the plan of the world govts

[06:55:28]

wagnerrp:

you know, all the environmentalists are pushing for renewable power, but at the same time theyre petitioning to prevent instalation of such plants

[06:55:52]

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[06:55:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: we just need to build a Dyson sphere

[06:56:02]

sphery:

then it's not in anyone's back yard

[06:56:04]

clever:

sphery: hmmm, that might work

[06:56:09]

clever:

its just a matter of building it

[06:56:10]

Beirdo:

sphery: we should power the plants with environmentalists

[06:56:14]

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[06:56:27]

wagnerrp:

hydroelectric? bad juju... wind? it will chop up the birds... solar towers? youre destroying precious desert... precious desert???

[06:56:37]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, Green power is people

[06:56:47]

wagnerrp:

the only thing they seem to like is photovoltaics, which are complete garbage

[06:56:50]

sphery:

(couldn't figure out how to work soylent into there)

[06:56:52]

mycoDA:

wagnerrp

[06:56:59]

wagnerrp:

and are only economical because of subsidies

[06:57:07]

mycoDA:

ur confusing environmentalists wsith conservationissts

[06:57:11]

mycoDA:

they are nto the same thing

[06:57:16]

sphery:

wagnerrp: which drove Spain to bankruptcy

[06:57:41]

Beirdo:

screw the birds

[06:57:45]

mycoDA:

a true environmentalist doesnt just want to keep pretty things like those nuts

[06:57:51]

mycoDA:

we want to survive

[06:57:55]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: now now, that will make them angry

[06:57:56]

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[06:58:00]

clever:

Beirdo: natural selection, if they are that dumb, then we dont need those birds

[06:58:01]

sphery:

and photovoltaics are /so/ inefficient and require a lot of dangerous materials to produce

[06:58:13]

sphery:

even if their carbon footprint is low, their other footprints aren't

[06:58:15]

Beirdo:

you know... there is no proof that the bird fatality rate is higher than usual on wind farms

[06:58:33]

sphery:

Beirdo: I'd guess it's actually higher in cities, like NYC

[06:58:34]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: but they just 'know' its killing birds

[06:58:51]

mycoDA:

photovoltaics are generally disaster

[06:58:58]

sphery:

those blades aren't moving that fast, really

[06:59:03]

Beirdo:

yeah, only because they keep chucking the birds at the blades

[06:59:03]

mycoDA:

their poduction footprints are high

[06:59:08]

mycoDA:

bad as a fucking prius

[06:59:11]

Beirdo:

they die on impact.

[06:59:16]

mycoDA:

just for posers and the like

[06:59:16]

Beirdo:

language....

[06:59:23]

mycoDA:

oops- sorry

[06:59:38]

Beirdo:

and the prius is definitely a fuel saver... just costs ya a lot

[06:59:41]

mycoDA:

prius and photovoltaic posers annoy the poop out of me

[07:00:10]

Beirdo:

then stay far away from Seattle

[07:00:13]

mycoDA:

may save fuel for the driver – but is a disaster to make, and there are plenty of more efficient plain ol ICE vehicles

[07:00:32]

mycoDA:

is a complete poser POS

[07:00:44]

sphery:

yeah, so with tip speeds of 200mpg and blade lengths from 66 to 130ft, they're rotating at 10–22rpm

[07:00:50]

Beirdo:

only if you are a poser

[07:00:53]

sphery:

so how does a bird hit that?

[07:01:07]

mycoDA:

it hits the bird

[07:01:14]

Beirdo:

sphery: by being launched from an environmentalist's cannon

[07:01:16]

sphery:

the hovering bird?

[07:01:22]

mycoDA:

but – who cares, something will eat the dead bird

[07:01:34]

wagnerrp:

and thus continues, the circle of life

[07:01:37]

Beirdo:

you can barely hit a pidgeon with a car at 80mph

[07:01:37]

mycoDA:

uhuh

[07:01:41]

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[07:01:45]

sphery:

22rpm (the fastest) is about 1 revolution / 3 seconds

[07:01:46]

mycoDA:

as environmentalist are fully awarer

[07:02:16]

sphery:

heh, but what if the dead pigeon attracts a vulture

[07:02:17]

mycoDA:

so every bit of its area has a 200mph blade go thru it every second sphery

[07:02:19]

wagnerrp:

usually with 3 blads

[07:02:24]

sphery:

then /it/ will die in the blades!

[07:02:36]

sphery:

who will eat the dead vulture? A hyena?

[07:02:45]

mycoDA:

or bugs

[07:02:50]

wagnerrp:

so its got a second to fly through the couple foot chord

[07:02:51]

mycoDA:

or possums

[07:02:56]

wagnerrp:

rednecks

[07:03:13]

mycoDA:

prolly a 1 in 10 chance o the chop

[07:03:16]

mycoDA:

at most

[07:03:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: couple foot... like 66 to 130 foot chord

[07:03:23]

mycoDA:

if it inst put off by the noise

[07:03:31]

mycoDA:

depth sphery

[07:03:33]

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[07:03:38]

sphery:

ohhh... depth

[07:03:40]

sphery:

yeah

[07:03:43]

Beirdo:

they were worried about that in downtown Toronto when they put one up

[07:03:45]

wagnerrp:

front to back, not span

[07:03:46]

Beirdo:

it's silent

[07:03:48]

sphery:

got it

[07:03:50]

sphery:

makes sense

[07:03:58]

Beirdo:

and no extra birds got killed

[07:04:09]

mycoDA:

from what distance beirdo – we are talkin a bird close up, not a person on the ground

[07:04:24]

mycoDA:

the whooshing should put em off

[07:04:32]

sphery:

is the sound really that noticeable?

[07:04:40]

Beirdo:

no, not at all

[07:04:54]

Beirdo:

right AT the blades, I'm sure you hear some woosh

[07:04:55]

sphery:

lots of people say so, but I've never heard them... granted, haven't stood underneath them

[07:05:07]

mycoDA:

they look magnificent to me

[07:05:18]

mycoDA:

i love watching em every time i go back home

[07:05:19]

Beirdo:

I have. gets lost in teh background noise of the city

[07:05:28]

mycoDA:

huge farm just outside canberra

[07:05:28]

sphery:

Beirdo: ah, then that's bad... means the last thing the pigeon will hear is "woosh"

[07:05:37]

sphery:

that's cruel and inhumane

[07:05:39]

Beirdo:

well, not directly below, but pretty darn close

[07:05:43]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:05:57]

mycoDA:

still, the blades are a long way above the ground

[07:06:04]

sphery:

I have pulled over on the side of the road to watch them on some trips to CA

[07:06:09]

sphery:

they are beautiful

[07:06:10]

Beirdo:

pigeons will see that it's moving, nowhere to roost, and move on to the stationary buildings around it

[07:06:13]

Beirdo:

yeah

[07:06:41]

sphery:

then I pulled out my lance and attacked

[07:06:41]

Beirdo:

they put one into the Exhibition Grounds just outside downtown Toronto. Quite pretty

[07:06:45]

Beirdo:

heheh

[07:06:47]

sphery:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2134

[07:06:48]

mycoDA:

rofl go Don

[07:06:52]

Beirdo:

you went to Solvang?

[07:07:22]

sphery:

heh

[07:07:25]

sphery:

had to look that one up

[07:07:43]

sphery:

google's pics explained the joke /very/ well

[07:07:50]

Beirdo:

heheeh

[07:07:59]

Beirdo:

I've been there, quaint little town

[07:08:03]

Beirdo:

very Danish

[07:08:33]

sphery:

Danish or Hollish?

[07:08:38]

Beirdo:

and yeah, several items to joust at

[07:08:40]

Beirdo:

Danish

[07:08:48]

Beirdo:

it was a Danish settlement

[07:09:10]

sphery:

cool

[07:09:25]

Beirdo:

right beside an old California mission (which is the only one still open when I was there)

[07:09:35]

Beirdo:

Santa Ynez Mission

[07:09:36]

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[07:09:54]

sphery:

oooh, I did go there

[07:10:01]

Beirdo:

the rest are all museums or whatever, that one's still owned by the church, at least... in 2000

[07:10:02]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I'm running a marathon there in like three weeks

[07:10:02]

sphery:

when I was a kid... we were on vacation

[07:10:12]

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[07:10:23]

Beirdo:

yeah, it's right on the east edge of Solvang

[07:10:31]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I hear that's a tough run. It's like Mission Impossible.

[07:10:54]

iamlindoro:

har har

[07:11:01]

sphery:

Beirdo: it's likely we went through Solvang and I just don't remember... That wouldn't have interested me as much as the mission did.

[07:11:06]

Beirdo:

heh :)

[07:11:20]

sphery:

(as a kid, that is... now probably different)

[07:11:27]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: oh yeah? drink the fine wines after, not before, K? :)

[07:11:30]

mycoDA:

Hollish??>???????

[07:11:33]

iamlindoro:

noted

[07:11:35]

sphery:

:)

[07:11:49]

sphery:

sounded like a better made-up word than Netherish

[07:12:02]

Beirdo:

I need to get down that way sometime again.

[07:12:14]

Beirdo:

do some wine touring or somehting

[07:12:15]

mycoDA:

try Dutch

[07:12:28]

sphery:

you and your proper words

[07:12:37]

mycoDA:

or Hollandse

[07:13:02]

Beirdo:

why not Flemish?

[07:13:09]

Beirdo:

:)

[07:13:11]

sphery:

what language is that in? (Hollandse)

[07:13:24]

Beirdo:

not everyone from the Netherlands is from Holland

[07:13:29]

Beirdo:

or is Dutch

[07:13:30]

mycoDA:

huh???? u Flaams boerer

[07:13:46]

mycoDA:

yeah they are – the flaams dont count

[07:13:53]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/warlock.png

[07:13:56]

iamlindoro:

setup warlock!

[07:14:00]

mycoDA:

and they are part of the netherlands anyway

[07:14:03]

sphery:

no fair.., as I've proven, I can't even speak english, so no pulling out other languages

[07:14:10]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh, you made it the warlock!

[07:14:11]

sphery:

nice

[07:14:18]

iamlindoro:

heh, only in the image

[07:14:30]

mycoDA:

Hollandse ist Hollandse voor Hollandse

[07:15:04]

sphery:

I can gimp it into the title

[07:16:18]

Beirdo:

I might have to get my butt off the couch and go get some double-salt licorice from the cupboard.

[07:16:35]

sphery:

heh, that still sounds so wrong to me

[07:16:39]

mycoDA:

echte zaut lekker

[07:16:44]

sphery:

glad you didn't get the triple, though

[07:17:02]

Beirdo:

oh I love the triple

[07:17:12]

sphery:

mycoDA: so, you're Dutch-Australian?

[07:17:14]

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[07:17:14]

Beirdo:

but Amazon didn't have it :)

[07:17:40]

mycoDA:

I am sphery, tho only on mum's side

[07:17:48]

sphery:

cool

[07:17:55]

Beirdo:

ah man, why is there singing.... this was supposed to be Bones, not American Idol

[07:18:03]

Beirdo:

cool

[07:18:21]

sphery:

I went to Hong Kong once and was amazed at how many people of varying nationalities were there visiting, but lived in Australia

[07:18:25]

mycoDA:

hopjes ftw

[07:18:41]

sphery:

seems that a lot of people move there from all over the world?

[07:18:41]

mycoDA:

yeah, we get around lol

[07:18:57]

mycoDA:

yep, tries to be a multicultural country i spose

[07:19:04]

mycoDA:

tho mostly white rofl

[07:19:13]

sphery:

at one time, the US was...

[07:19:18]

mycoDA:

is only a few decades since the white australia policy

[07:19:29]

Beirdo:

I had a classmate who went to visit the family in the Netherlands and brought back double-salt and triple-salt licorice... in grade 4. Loved it then, love it now.

[07:19:44]

sphery:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." and all

[07:19:44]

mycoDA:

lol

[07:19:45]

Beirdo:

and she's off married to another classmate and has several cute kids.

[07:20:12]

sphery:

and never ships you any triple-salt licorice

[07:20:15]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:20:25]

mycoDA:

nah – 'give us your people who are willing to work and are white, we need infrastructure' is more australia

[07:20:26]

sphery:

wonder where her priorities went

[07:20:28]

Beirdo:

in Ottawa, we at least had a Dutch grocer

[07:20:55]

Beirdo:

I have yet to find one in Seattle

[07:20:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:21:03]

sphery:

mycoDA: wow, I hadn't heard of that... I feel so naive.

[07:21:15]

sphery:

and, yeah, up through 1973

[07:21:35]

Beirdo:

I'd be interested in moving to .AU at some decade. Maybe some other decade

[07:21:40]

mycoDA:

lol

[07:22:05]

Beirdo:

my family would REALLY be annoyed that I'm too far away then

[07:22:17]

sphery:

heh

[07:22:18]

Beirdo:

all except my aunt in Malaysia. heh

[07:22:36]

sphery:

I'm still looking for a place to go when US policy goes too far

[07:22:45]

Beirdo:

when?

[07:22:53]

Beirdo:

you're a couple decades late, dude

[07:22:56]

sphery:

unfortunately, the US keeps making all sorts of other countries adopt similar policies

[07:23:05]

sphery:

heh, yeah, you're probably right

[07:23:33]

Beirdo:

I think Australia and New Zealand would be on my list

[07:23:42]

Beirdo:

but then again.. commonwealth countries :)

[07:23:43]

sphery:

the day when they outlaw MythTV is the day I'll have to leave

[07:23:59]

sphery:

but can't go to Australia--I hear their shows aren't anywhere near the scheduled times

[07:24:01]

mycoDA:

NZ is FULL of conservationist nuts, and is decades behind the rest of the world

[07:24:16]

Beirdo:

NZ you are allowed to distill your own booze

[07:24:21]

Beirdo:

so Pbbbbbt

[07:24:24]

sphery:

but they have good middle-earth scenery

[07:24:26]

mycoDA:

just add a bit of a buffer either side and an extra tuner sphery – u'll be right

[07:24:33]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[07:24:53]

mycoDA:

dont forget if u move to NZ u legally have tohave a car at leats 15 years old rofl

[07:24:59]

sphery:

so for my 4 recordings at a time, I'll just have to get 8 capture cards

[07:25:03]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:25:05]

mycoDA:

nah, prolly 6

[07:25:11]

sphery:

:)

[07:25:16]

Beirdo:

well, the car I want is about the same age as me

[07:25:22]

Beirdo:

so that wouldn't be an issue

[07:25:24]

sphery:

would probably also have to find all new things to watch

[07:25:32]

sphery:

so I might not need 4 recordings at a time there

[07:25:39]

Beirdo:

(or older)

[07:25:50]

mycoDA:

we only have 15 transports over 5 channels anyway

[07:25:56]

mycoDA:

so shouldnt need more than 5

[07:26:11]

mycoDA:

i use 3, very rarely miss out on anything

[07:26:12]

sphery:

ah, cool

[07:26:15]

Beirdo:

but ABC RN plays Goon Shows once a week on the radio

[07:26:24]

sphery:

I don't get any real benefit from multirec here

[07:26:29]

mycoDA:

tru – but u can stream that

[07:26:38]

Beirdo:

I know. been there.

[07:27:24]

Beirdo:

and.. all the nice Aussie accents... ooh boy.

[07:27:27]

mycoDA:

pretty regularly repeat hancock's half hour and hitch hikers guide too

[07:27:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:27:59]

mycoDA:

but just get an ISP with free pipe, no point tuning that

[07:28:12]

mycoDA:

i download 150G on a 20G plan

[07:29:10]

wagnerrp:

hancock's half hour?

[07:30:11]

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[07:31:21]

mycoDA:

u havent heard of it? similar comedy form a similar time

[07:31:44]

wagnerrp:

cant say i have

[07:31:51]

mycoDA:

is funny

[07:32:08]

justinh:

as funny as PILES

[07:32:19]

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[07:32:22]

mycoDA:

huh?

[07:32:34]

justinh:

Hancock. As funny as piles

[07:32:37]

mycoDA:

spose they are pretty funnny, if they arent on you lol

[07:33:33]

justinh:

hee hee hee

[07:34:31]

justinh:

I dunno, even before I found out about his life story I always found Hancock pretty tragic

[07:36:02]

Beirdo:

oh that was odd.

[07:36:21]

Beirdo:

the ARM board just tossed my receiver... EMI on the USB bus?

[07:36:45]

Beirdo:

I guess I need to make my code deal with that

[07:37:02]

Beirdo:

tossed and re-enabled

[07:37:04]

mycoDA:

had no idea tony hancock had such tragedy

[07:37:49]

justinh:

oh aye. very sad

[07:38:02]

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[07:41:10]

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[07:42:30]

justinh:

bloody hell. reading the 0.25 release notes...

[07:43:54]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:44:03]

Beirdo:

how many tomes is it so far?

[07:44:33]

justinh:

heheheheh

[07:44:42]

justinh:

there's er.. quite a raft of improvements

[07:44:59]

justinh:

trying to click on the things I find more interesting though.. getting 404s

[07:45:03]

mycoDA:

close to stable yet?

[07:45:15]

wagnerrp:

to be fair, theres really not more improvements than normal

[07:45:29]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner is just making it look that way by actually populating the page

[07:45:31]

wagnerrp:

:)

[07:45:36]

justinh:

hahaha

[07:45:38]

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[07:45:42]

Beirdo:

some fairly large chunks of rewrite going on though

[07:46:06]

** justinh goes to look at #27266 **

[07:46:10]

mycoDA:

quicker?

[07:46:14]

justinh:

oops [27266]

[07:46:14]

MythLogBot:

SVN 27266: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/a0c1315f

[07:46:31]

justinh:

hahahah NICE work Beirdo

[07:47:02]

wagnerrp:

audio rewrite, mythsystem rewrite, big chunk of playback code, web setup, hopefully jobqueue

[07:47:02]

Beirdo:

I like it ;)

[07:47:08]

justinh:

hmm ticket still doesn't really say what 'mapped text and images' really means

[07:47:11]

wagnerrp:

mythxml

[07:47:33]

Beirdo:

yeah, a few changes

[07:47:34]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:48:08]

wagnerrp:

primarily stuff that isnt noticeable on first glance

[07:48:23]

wagnerrp:

but makes the code easier to use, or makes setup easier

[07:48:35]

Beirdo:

yup, or (hopefully) more stable

[07:48:35]

wagnerrp:

or makes things more reliable

[07:49:07]

wagnerrp:

i forgot all about the popup replacement

[07:49:12]

justinh:

"Fix non-animated GIF reloading causing the frontend to abort ".. personally I wonder why anybody even bothers using GIF

[07:49:30]

wagnerrp:

justinh: channel icons?

[07:49:42]

Beirdo:

it's the only choice for animated images, really

[07:49:47]

Beirdo:

i.e. weather maps

[07:50:00]

justinh:

APNG still not taking off? :-(

[07:50:19]

Beirdo:

not that I've seen so far

[07:51:17]

justinh:

maybe cos there's still no easy way to make em

[07:51:52]

sphery:

what? you mean having to add a mozilla patch to libpng doesn't mean it's a successful format?

[07:52:24]

justinh:

I looked at using the GIMP plugin ages ago & just couldn't work it out

[07:53:15]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:53:34]

sphery:

ah, now it's a standalone apng project

[07:53:46]

Beirdo:

anyways, I should go to bed so I can go to work tomorrow... so I can go to the Mariners' game

[07:55:42]

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[07:56:05]

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[07:56:33]

justinh:

heh there's a SCAN_VIDEOS backend call now? This is all starting to look like people are listening to users lol

[07:56:48]

Beirdo:

occasionally :)

[07:57:12]

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[07:59:04]

Beirdo:

OK, bed. Night all

[07:59:15]

wagnerrp:

justinh: that was really only put in there for the upnp server

[07:59:34]

wagnerrp:

the upnp server needs to be updated, assuming the users of it arent using the frontend

[07:59:40]

justinh:

oh yeah, dress it up. don't let them get the wrong idea ;-)

[08:00:09]

wagnerrp:

so if the upnp server is going to be integrated with the videometadata tables, there needs to be an automated call

[08:00:20]

justinh:

aye, I can see that

[08:01:03]

justinh:

wonder if the upnp is ever going to be both ways.. though maybe a bit late for that

[08:01:15]

wagnerrp:

both ways?

[08:01:22]

wagnerrp:

oh, frontend client?

[08:01:26]

justinh:

yeah be able to use upnp served content

[08:01:44]

justinh:

be a slight boon for that to open up I reckon, bearing in mind the state of clients

[08:06:24]

wagnerrp:

(besides the upnp example) i still dont understand the worth of a batch scanner

[08:06:42]

wagnerrp:

and this is even after having written one for the bindings

[08:07:02]

justinh:

I do. for the kind of people who do the kind of thing we all deeply frown on around here

[08:07:23]

wagnerrp:

right, and whats the point listening to them

[08:09:14]

wagnerrp:

sadly, they seem to be the bulk of the HTPC crows

[08:09:15]

wagnerrp:

d

[08:09:51]

justinh:

I reckon I stopped using the term 'HTPC' about the same time as I stopped being one of THEM :)

[08:10:26]

mycoDA:

what is the matter with 'them'?

[08:10:38]

justinh:

look – here's my 'home theater' where I screen sub-par screeners & cams!

[08:11:07]

mycoDA:

lol

[08:11:23]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: 'them' being those who acquire their library through illegitimate means

[08:11:35]

mycoDA:

some people do htpc for convenience and versatlity you know

[08:11:44]

mycoDA:

i got that wagnerrp

[08:11:48]

wagnerrp:

them being the only types of people who would find use in a batch scanner for mythvideo

[08:12:03]

wagnerrp:

because their torrent clients keep dumping more stuff in it, and they cant be bothered to just hit scan manually

[08:12:06]

mycoDA:

if the bloody things worked lol

[08:12:15]

mycoDA:

orly?

[08:12:22]

mycoDA:

thats pretty lazy

[08:12:33]

mycoDA:

thought u meant batch metadata fetching

[08:12:45]

wagnerrp:

no, they certainly does have use

[08:12:46]

justinh:

mind, I dunno what use it'd really be since mythvideo doesn't parse out the stupid group names etc :P

[08:12:48]

wagnerrp:

that

[08:13:00]

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[08:13:27]

mycoDA:

mythvideo-scanner is supposed to

[08:13:32]

mycoDA:

doesnt work tho

[08:13:37]

justinh:

good!

[08:13:38]

mycoDA:

for me anyway lol

[08:13:42]

justinh:

good!

[08:13:43]

wagnerrp:

course not, it hasnt worked since 0.21

[08:13:53]

wagnerrp:

or been updated since, either

[08:13:55]

mycoDA:

is supposed to be updated for 0.24

[08:13:56]

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[08:14:07]

wagnerrp:

clearly not, since there is no indication of use of storage groups

[08:14:08]

mycoDA:

think u r referring to a diufferent peice o code

[08:14:24]

wagnerrp:

no, i know exactly what code youre referring to

[08:14:33]

mycoDA:

http://code.google.com/p/mythvideo-scanner/

[08:14:41]

wagnerrp:

thats the one

[08:15:02]

wagnerrp:

and yes, i realize there have been commits in the past month

[08:15:10]

mycoDA:

but honestly – i record a hell of a lot more than i dl

[08:15:11]

wagnerrp:

doesnt mean it works with anything beyond 0.21

[08:15:21]

wagnerrp:

and i guarantee it will cause problems with anything better than 0.22

[08:15:31]

mycoDA:

most of what i dl is stuff that didnt record

[08:15:47]

mycoDA:

or..... stuff the missus wats to share as it were

[08:15:50]

mycoDA:

*wants

[08:16:40]

mycoDA:

also stuff that isnt available any other way

[08:16:40]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i wonder if that script is the source of some of these duplicate video complaints

[08:16:51]

justinh:

quite possibly

[08:18:10]

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[08:19:14]

dubstar_04:

is anyone familiar with mythxml and mythprotocol?

[08:19:31]

wagnerrp:

yes

[08:19:40]

mycoDA:

curious – you guys are pretty polar on copyright – but what about stuff like anime that has never been released outside japan?

[08:19:49]

justinh:

mycoDA: what about it?

[08:20:06]

justinh:

copyright is copyright

[08:20:07]

mycoDA:

is your disapproval of downloading it as strong?

[08:20:28]

justinh:

you want something somebody wants money for creating, you pay

[08:20:30]

justinh:

end of!

[08:20:31]

dubstar_04:

I am looking at ways to schedule recordings from a mobile / cell phone and wondered what the best approach was.

[08:20:38]

justinh:

dubstar_04: mythweb IMHO

[08:20:45]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: there are plenty of placed you can import it from

[08:21:01]

justinh:

if your phone isn't up to it, get a better phone. mythweb works & looks fantastic on my 'Droid

[08:21:10]

mycoDA:

there are plenty there is no such option

[08:21:16]

wagnerrp:

retailers in japan specifically set up for shipping oversees

[08:21:32]

justinh:

I have no sympathy for anybody who likes anime anyway :P

[08:22:12]

dubstar_04:

I have written an Android app that uses mythxml to populate a local database with guide data, it can be searched and browsed but I would like to schedule recordings from it.

[08:22:32]

justinh:

you wouldn't want to use that over the public internet

[08:22:33]

wagnerrp:

dubstar_04: you cant do it over mythxml or mythproto at the moment

[08:22:37]

wagnerrp:

database is the only option

[08:22:46]

wagnerrp:

you need to edit the record table, specifically

[08:23:01]

wagnerrp:

you may want to check into recent development in mythxml

[08:23:10]

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[08:23:14]

wagnerrp:

it now supports POST calls, with the intent of allowing more bidirectional use

[08:23:17]

justinh:

but still, why not do it the proper, secure way?

[08:23:20]

dubstar_04:

is that the recommended method 'supported' by you guys?

[08:23:36]

wagnerrp:

one of those uses could be creation and modification of recording rules

[08:23:39]

justinh:

you probably don't want to be doing anything with the protocol over an internet connection

[08:23:45]

justinh:

xml or no xml

[08:23:51]

wagnerrp:

not an insecure connection anyway

[08:23:59]

justinh:

unless the server side is going to be secured somehow

[08:24:05]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is no to be exposed to the internet in any fashion

[08:24:08]

wagnerrp:

VPN or bust

[08:24:49]

wagnerrp:

there is simply no internal security in either the backend protocol or mythxml

[08:25:48]

[R]:

what if i WANT people to screw iwth my myth

[08:25:57]

[R]:

just like those unsecured mythwebs we found that one time with the pornos

[08:25:59]

dubstar_04:

what that basically means that you can only do it on a local network? may aswell just turn the TV on and use mythfrontend!!

[08:25:59]

justinh:

[R]: fine. it's your funeral

[08:26:08]

justinh:

dubstar_04: precisely

[08:26:18]

wagnerrp:

dubstar_04: or mythweb, or you can set up your own proxy interface

[08:26:20]

justinh:

there'd be more mileage in making better skins for mythweb, if anything

[08:26:44]

justinh:

a not inconsequential task, as I've discovered

[08:27:02]

mycoDA:

isnt hard to set up iptables to drop anything from outside the local network going to the myth ports

[08:27:09]

justinh:

I mean 'better' as in 'better for mobiles'

[08:27:23]

mycoDA:

only allow connections to more secured ports

[08:27:26]

justinh:

mycoDA: still, one extra thing most users don't want to have to mess with

[08:27:34]

mycoDA:

true

[08:27:55]

wagnerrp:

mycoDA: its not the ports, its the protocol, the protocol itself is asecure

[08:28:19]

mycoDA:

ah – so tunnel it ftw

[08:28:26]

wagnerrp:

you simply cant open it to the internet without some tunnelling layer

[08:28:29]

wagnerrp:

right

[08:28:42]

wagnerrp:

you could even just pump it through ssh if you wanted

[08:28:47]

wagnerrp:

mysql too

[08:30:55]

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[08:30:58]

dubstar_04:

would there be any way to protect mythxml and only allow verified connections? oauth or similar?

[08:31:16]

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[08:31:27]

wagnerrp:

sure, proxy it through another web server

[08:31:45]

wagnerrp:

actually, mythxml now does have some form of digest authentication

[08:31:53]

mycoDA:

should even be doable on the same machine shouldnt it?

[08:33:22]

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[08:38:20]

mycoDA:

why the heck would my volume be going thru the roof every time the screen comes out of dpms

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[09:38:21]

justinh:

you know how certain people have claimed that BBC iPlayer stuff is recorded off air? I now realise why I've always taken issue with that. It can't *all* be. No way. How do I know that? Watermarking. iPlayer shows of things from the BBC News channel don't have the ticker or DoG.. nor does anything from BBC Three or BBC Four. So it *cannot* all be generated from off-air content. So there!

[09:41:31]

mycoDA:

why on earth would they????

[09:41:58]

justinh:

budget constraint, for one

[09:42:00]

mycoDA:

take something digital, broadcast and then recode again for iptv?

[09:42:20]

mycoDA:

would be retarded

[09:42:52]

justinh:

I originally thought the iplayer version would be made individually from source material – but allegedly not

[09:43:11]

justinh:

it's def. done from the broadcast chain – i.e. can't exist on iPlayer til it's been broadcast

[09:43:14]

mycoDA:

i would think so too – would be retarded not to

[09:43:21]

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[09:43:50]

mycoDA:

why? easy to schedule the time a file goes online

[09:43:59]

justinh:

somebody I've nattered with on IRC definitely said stuff along the lines of TV tuners

[09:44:13]

mycoDA:

where did they get this bs from?

[09:44:19]

justinh:

but then if that was done centrally, how do they get regional content?

[09:44:36]

mycoDA:

ever hear of the internet?

[09:44:56]

mycoDA:

or in aunty's case – their own fibre

[09:45:08]

justinh:

maybe they leapt to conclusions & told it as fact

[09:45:18]

justinh:

anyway, it's always bugged me

[09:45:29]

mycoDA:

would be an inherently retarded way to do it

[09:45:40]

justinh:

never put that past the BBC

[09:45:51]

mycoDA:

interference

[09:46:07]

justinh:

not if you pick your recording site well

[09:49:03]

hashbang:

justinh: or straight out of the encoders

[09:49:35]

justinh:

that's as unlikely as off air IMHO

[09:49:47]

justinh:

since the iplayer content has its own watermarks

[09:50:08]

hashbang:

I get the impression there are /multiple/ ways that stuff makes its way onto iPlayer

[09:50:37]

justinh:

aye but nothing can go on if it hasn't been shown yet

[09:50:39]

hashbang:

my Dad notices this as he dls a lot of radio using get_iplayer, and some things are mp3, some are aac.

[09:50:48]

hashbang:

even within the same station and series

[09:51:05]

justinh:

they can put stuff back on it, too – i.e. when they edit

[09:53:14]

justinh:

ahh. Cnet covered this http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10237793-94.html

[09:55:57]

justinh:

Click should do a big story about it IMHO. That'd be cool :-)

[09:56:24]

justinh:

and it ironically wouldn't be available on iPlayer cos the show keeps getting bumped :P

[09:58:26]

justinh:

holy poop.. this was in 2009.. "That turns out to be up to 7PB of data transfer a month."

[09:59:35]

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[10:01:40]

justinh:

wonder what % of total UK traffic that is

[10:02:48]

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[10:16:53]

mycoDA:

why would myth be turning up the volume at the start of every recording?

[10:17:09]

mycoDA:

(turned out not to be come out of screen off)

[10:17:29]

justinh:

because it doesn't store volume settings?

[10:17:55]

justinh:

like it doesn't keep picture controls settings either AFAIK

[10:20:13]

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[10:20:56]

mycoDA:

ok – but then why would it be changing them?\

[10:21:33]

justinh:

changing mixer volume controls?

[10:21:37]

mycoDA:

uhuh

[10:22:37]

justinh:

because that's how mythtv changes volume. it doesn't, as far as I know, scale the volume in software

[10:23:32]

mycoDA:

yeah – but why does it do it at the start of every playback?

[10:23:53]

justinh:

because that's the time when it's outputting audio?

[10:24:07]

mycoDA:

why would it not presume the volume i set during the last playback was what i wanted?

[10:24:11]

justinh:

and it doesn't store changes to volume etc

[10:24:20]

mycoDA:

not like i have exited the frontend

[10:24:32]

justinh:

just like it doesn't store picture controls values either

[10:24:40]

mycoDA:

so why change it?????

[10:24:53]

justinh:

why not?!"

[10:24:58]

justinh:

I didn't frickin code it

[10:25:20]

mycoDA:

why on earth would you want the volume to change every time you start a playback????

[10:25:37]

justinh:

why on earth not?

[10:25:55]

mycoDA:

watch one episode, it ends start the next, volume back to default

[10:26:00]

justinh:

maybe whoever wrote that code uses the volume control on their TV or whatever

[10:26:15]

justinh:

I do that too. way less noisy

[10:26:44]

justinh:

don't ride the app's volume control, or the mixer input :-)

[10:26:51]

mycoDA:

i totally understand setting default volume at mythfrontend start, but why on earth at the start of every playback

[10:27:02]

justinh:

WHO KNOWS

[10:27:09]

justinh:

how long is a piece of string?

[10:27:26]

mycoDA:

lolwut

[10:27:32]

justinh:

it currently acts that way because it's been coded that way. you want to know the logic behind it, go hassle whoever did it

[10:27:33]

mycoDA:

is a new behavior btw

[10:32:36]

justinh:

oh well. One reason to be glad I haven't upgrading yet?

[10:32:48]

justinh:

*bothered* upgrading

[10:41:18]

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[10:57:09]

mycoDA:

i admit i can workaround by setting default to a reasonable level, but is annoying as hell

[10:58:24]

justinh:

what would be the point in having a default setting if it always remembered the last volume it was set to?

[11:00:28]

mycoDA:

not suggesting it remembers

[11:00:39]

justinh:

I'm suggesting it doesn't

[11:00:50]

mycoDA:

suggesting that setting it to default at the start of EVERY playback is significantly retarded

[11:01:00]

justinh:

but if it did, there'd be no need to have a default setting

[11:01:13]

mycoDA:

that it should leave it the hell alone, except at frontend start

[11:01:31]

justinh:

patches always (well nearly always) welcome, yada yada

[11:01:49]

justinh:

not that anybody will thank you for calling their existing plan significantly retarded

[11:02:08]

justinh:

maybe that you fail to see the logic behind their decision.. that might wash

[11:02:17]

mycoDA:

only way you could make it more annoying is do it mid recording too

[11:02:58]

justinh:

or you could just use the volume control on your teevee

[11:03:33]

justinh:

I've known people who used PC speakers cranked up to max, then set the volume with the mixer. Ouch. Nasty noisy

[11:03:51]

mycoDA:

means using miltiple remotes

[11:04:09]

mycoDA:

we have the tv volume at a fair high volume, rest is done via pc

[11:04:14]

justinh:

not with the right remote :)

[11:04:19]

mycoDA:

$

[11:04:26]

justinh:

awww, diddums

[11:04:50]

mycoDA:

i know – i am disabled, have to survive on fuck all, and am in constant pain, diddums

[11:05:12]

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[12:01:46]

justinh:

well, at least I managed to stop that whining sound

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mycoDA:

ur a nice guy justinh, top bloke

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mycoDA:

champ

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[14:42:59]

spirit3:

hey Hashbang

[14:43:15]

hashbang:

spirit3: wotcha

[14:43:24]

spirit3:

so far so good on the tuner front ...

[14:43:33]

hashbang:

spirit3: good, good

[14:43:38]

spirit3:

however today I've noticed two i2c errors in the log ...

[14:44:02]

spirit3:

mt2060 I2C read failed – usually a sign of doom and gloom

[14:44:14]

hashbang:

quite possibly

[14:44:26]

hashbang:

did you get the auto's out of dtv_multiplex?

[14:44:43]

spirit3:

No, that's next on my list – I thought I'd test it without changes first

[14:44:49]

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[14:45:02]

mycoDA:

dib0700?

[14:45:09]

spirit3:

That was going to be my next question – if you think the i2c errors are linked to the auto settings

[14:45:09]

mycoDA:

spirit3?

[14:45:17]

spirit3:

yes, dib0700

[14:45:20]

mycoDA:

yay

[14:45:28]

mycoDA:

is a right PITA

[14:45:33]

spirit3:

Common problem from what I can see :)

[14:45:34]

mycoDA:

try firmware 1.1

[14:45:46]

mycoDA:

if u dont use the remote

[14:45:59]

mycoDA:

my most recent one was actually the hub playing up

[14:46:09]

spirit3:

I don't use the remote – but I recall similar 'tuner death' ocurring under 1.10 too

[14:46:15]

mycoDA:

kk

[14:46:21]

hashbang:

mycoDA: the onboard VIA PCI-USB bridge?

[14:46:32]

mycoDA:

have you dont the 2 tweaks on the hauppage nova page?

[14:46:51]

mycoDA:

i have asus U3100mini, not hauppage nova T-500

[14:46:56]

mycoDA:

*doner

[14:46:58]

mycoDA:

*done

[14:47:19]

hashbang:

mycoDA: ah, right

[14:47:29]

spirit3:

mycoDA: Yes, most of them – but Sir Hashbang seems to have some good advice too

[14:47:30]

mycoDA:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppau . . . l_dib0700.29

[14:47:40]

mycoDA:

options dvb_usb disable-rc-polling=1

[14:47:52]

mycoDA:

options dvb_usb_dib0700 force_lna_activation=1

[14:48:02]

spirit3:

yup, done both of those

[14:48:09]

spirit3:

and the disabling of USB suspend

[14:48:14]

spirit3:

or whatever it is – sleep?

[14:48:31]

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[14:49:09]

hashbang:

spirit3: for me, getting the auto's out was key

[14:49:23]

hashbang:

spirit3: may well be UK/Mendip specific, though

[14:49:49]

mycoDA:

didnt have it for an age til recently – ended up being the hub i was using for em this time (i think)

[14:50:27]

mycoDA:

what distro/kernel spirit3?

[14:51:44]

spirit3:

hashbang: Well, I'm pointing at the mendips too – despite getting some signals off the back of the antenna from ... oxford? :)

[14:51:49]

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[14:52:44]

spirit3:

mycoDA: Previously an old Mythbuntu 8.04 distro that had been upgraded (mostly without issue) to 10.whatever. But, due to some weirdness with the DB, continued Nova-T issues and a requirement to increase storage ... currentlya clean Mythbuntu 10.10 install

[14:53:13]

spirit3:

So currently 2.6.35-28-generic-pae :)

[14:54:50]

mycoDA:

gah – _should_ be over

[14:55:11]

mycoDA:

just at an offchance – curious what ur PSU is?

[14:55:42]

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[14:56:32]

spirit3:

mycoDA: Some generic model, but previous demands were a 45W 'green' CPU, onboard graphics and a single HD. I don't think it would struggle too much.

[14:57:04]

mycoDA:

some generics have such crap power you can get all sors of weird errors, usb disconnects included

[14:57:15]

spirit3:

It's now running a 110W AMD CPU, 2 x HD (although one is normally in sleep) and an Nvidia GT220 (?) GFX card

[14:57:23]

mycoDA:

ouch

[14:57:52]

spirit3:

If I continue to get issues despite all other fixes it would be worth swapping it I guess

[14:58:05]

mycoDA:

i would anyway

[14:58:24]

spirit3:

My main issue at the moment is the increased heat / fan noise from the dual core AMD :(

[14:58:39]

** mycoDA doesnt get why people spend on ardware, and not on te single most important part of their system **

[14:58:40]

spirit3:

After upgrading the desktop it seemed a great idea to upgrade Myth with the old hardware

[14:58:44]

mycoDA:

*hardware

[14:59:15]

mycoDA:

yeah, it is, just never a great idea to use a cheap nasty psu for a PC

[14:59:23]

spirit3:

Generally I agree – especially with the horrific EMC (or lack of) filtering on cheap PSU's

[14:59:54]

spirit3:

This was an Antec media centre case – it wasn't cheap so I assumed the CPU was reasonable ... but who knows

[15:00:28]

hashbang:

spirit3: I'm using an Antec EarthWatts 380 in my MythBox

[15:00:48]

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[15:01:28]

mycoDA:

antec media cases come with earthwatts psus spirit3

[15:01:58]

mycoDA:

older ones are seasonics, newer ones are deltas

[15:02:06]

mycoDA:

non are remotely generic

[15:02:10]

mycoDA:

*none

[15:02:17]

spirit3:

I have the Antec fusion media centre case ... nice case by the gf complains about the size. I think it looks great on the hifi rack but ... girls ...

[15:03:03]

hashbang:

spirit3: surprised you haven't been forced into using IR surround speakers...

[15:03:14]

** spirit3 shudders **

[15:03:47]

spirit3:

Actually since moving house I've just gone back to stereo again

[15:03:48]

mycoDA:

does the fusion come with PSU ? had the 2480 which is the same case without the lcd and drive covers

[15:03:52]

hashbang:

would love to see wireless surround done right, mind you.

[15:04:04]

mycoDA:

came with an earthwatts 380

[15:04:11]

hashbang:

(in terms of BW/compression and resiliency)

[15:04:17]

spirit3:

I the think the fusion came with PSU... long time ago now

[15:04:29]

mycoDA:

y isnt that psu in it?

[15:05:36]

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[15:06:00]

spirit3:

Sorry – confusion – whatever PSU came with it is still in it

[15:06:07]

spirit3:

I assumed it was some unbranded junk

[15:06:51]

mycoDA:

nup – awesome quiet PSU, only reason it would be going is age

[15:06:56]

spirit3:

but it seems it's a reasonable 80+% efficient model

[15:07:01]

mycoDA:

uhuh

[15:07:09]

mycoDA:

more than reasonable

[15:07:31]

mycoDA:

same unit as the corsair VX (until the change to the D models)

[15:11:17]

spirit3:

hmmm the antec power/PSU Calculator suggests at peak load my box could be pulling 380w

[15:12:18]

mycoDA:

youch

[15:12:28]

mycoDA:

did you say one socket?

[15:12:37]

spirit3:

ah no ... that's with capacitor aging included ... 270w with one HD spinning and 290w with two

[15:12:52]

mycoDA:

how old is it?

[15:13:00]

spirit3:

so underspec for the PSU – and that's with 90% cpu utilisation

[15:13:13]

spirit3:

2–3 years old

[15:13:23]

mycoDA:

yeah – prolly workin it hard then

[15:13:44]

spirit3:

well, most of the time the box is sat there idle

[15:13:48]

spirit3:

with one disk spun down

[15:14:00]

mycoDA:

cpas are still old

[15:14:05]

mycoDA:

*caps

[15:14:49]

spirit3:

Really? I still use equipment from the 80's ... only then is capacitor aging becoming a problem

[15:15:08]

spirit3:

I'd have thought anything <10 years old wouldn't suffer?

[15:15:10]

mycoDA:

prolly lost some 320% of their original capacitance

[15:15:15]

mycoDA:

*20

[15:15:53]

mycoDA:

these are electros that live their life at 50 degrees

[15:16:44]

mycoDA:

still, prolly not the issue – hmm

[15:17:03]

mycoDA:

could be worth a shot tho if you have something spare that is beefier

[15:17:26]

mycoDA:

my myth box is just an antec neo 430

[15:17:43]

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[15:20:15]

spirit3:

Yeah, certainly something to look into

[15:20:32]

spirit3:

I'll give hashbang's 'auto' change a test first though

[15:21:56]

mycoDA:

got details on this fix in case it comes back?

[15:22:18]

mycoDA:

only been a couple of days since i chaged the hub over

[15:23:37]

spirit3:

right pub is calling

[15:23:40]

spirit3:

have a great weekend all

[15:24:14]

mycoDA:

hashbang? what is the autos fix?

[15:24:22]

mycoDA:

have fun spirit3

[15:24:59]

spirit3:

mycoDA: It's regarding the tuning values in the DB

[15:25:27]

spirit3:

frequency/offset/something – some cards don't work well with 'auto'

[15:26:01]

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[15:26:41]

spirit3:

//www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/mythtv-users@mythtv.org/2011-01/msg01866.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mailinglistarchive.com/html/mythtv . . . sg01866.html

[15:26:46]

mycoDA:

mythtv-setup?

[15:27:31]

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[15:31:06]

mycoDA:

that looks like a nightmare to setup manually, tho might be ok now the aus channels seem to have finished shifting everything round

[15:32:58]

hashbang:

mycoDA: we've got at least another couple of years of farting around

[15:33:08]

mycoDA:

yay

[15:41:20]

mycoDA:

then it moves on to stuffing round with mheg yay

[15:48:42]

skd5aner:

[26888]

[15:48:43]

MythLogBot:

SVN 26888: (branch master) https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/de679e43

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[16:27:32]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you up yet?

[16:29:06]

Beirdo:

yeah, but I only have a minute or two... tight schedule unless I wanna miss the bus

[16:29:31]

wagnerrp:

ffmpeg has --enable-xvid and --enable-x264 stuff in their configure

[16:29:39]

wagnerrp:

but we never advertise it because we dont use it

[16:29:44]

wagnerrp:

but now with mythffmpeg, we do

[16:29:48]

wagnerrp:

whats the word on using those?

[16:30:17]

Beirdo:

ya kinda need them if you want the support in nuvexport

[16:30:35]

Beirdo:

if you don't need that support, feel free to skip

[16:30:43]

Beirdo:

that's for encoding only

[16:30:58]

wagnerrp:

someone put up an ebuild for nuvexport, adding those options into the mythtv configure

[16:31:10]

Beirdo:

yeah, I saw that

[16:31:17]

wagnerrp:

i just dont really want to add configure options that arent mentioned in '--configure help'

[16:31:36]

Beirdo:

CONFIG-mythtv += --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libxvid --enable-libx264

[16:31:39]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:31:52]

wagnerrp:

yeah, that was the other question

[16:31:56]

Beirdo:

that's what I added to mine

[16:32:09]

wagnerrp:

should we just add them, indicating they are only of use in mythffmpeg

[16:32:14]

Beirdo:

for full nuvexport capability, you'd need all three

[16:32:16]

Beirdo:

sure

[16:32:37]

Beirdo:

they do work currently

[16:32:46]

Beirdo:

just not in the help

[16:32:52]

wagnerrp:

i thought we already enforced mp3lame

[16:33:06]

wagnerrp:

mythtv doesnt like compiling for me without it installed

[16:33:34]

Beirdo:

I think there is another similar one that we enforce, but not one that propagates to ffmpeg

[16:34:02]

Beirdo:

which is silly, but there it is

[16:34:18]

Beirdo:

OK, I'd better go, the bus is supposed to be here shortly

[16:34:19]

Beirdo:

:)

[16:34:28]

wagnerrp:

thanks

[16:34:34]

Beirdo:

no prob

[16:37:45]

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[16:46:32]

wagnerrp:

awww crap

[16:46:42]

wagnerrp:

i just pushed all of my jobqueue changes

[17:02:26]

Beirdo:

I don't see them

[17:02:53]

Beirdo:

then again, I could be blind

[17:04:41]

wagnerrp:

remember, you squelched out feature branches from the mail

[17:05:54]

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[17:06:07]

Beirdo:

yeah, but I don't see any pushes to that branch... since yesterday? on the network diagram

[17:06:38]

Beirdo:

since 01301bad

[17:06:54]

wagnerrp:

yeah, they were a couple days old, but hadnt been pushed

[17:07:00]

Beirdo:

oooh

[17:07:02]

Beirdo:

:)

[17:07:17]

Beirdo:

you have git setup to push all branches?

[17:07:33]

wagnerrp:

well, i dont have it setup to not mush all branches

[17:07:38]

wagnerrp:

push

[17:07:57]

Beirdo:

gotcha

[17:08:10]

Beirdo:

[push]

[17:08:18]

Beirdo:

default = tracking

[17:08:42]

Beirdo:

I THINK that's what you'd be looking for (in the .git/config or ~/.gitconfig file)

[17:09:02]

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[17:09:14]

wagnerrp:

well... its open for perusing now

[17:09:26]

Beirdo:

hehe, yup

[17:09:29]

wagnerrp:

but if anyone runs it, well then they deserve what they get running a feature branch untested

[17:09:36]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:12:41]

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[17:13:43]

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[17:15:55]

clustermagnet:

gents, questionâ€¦ are there mythtv pre-installed hardware bundles on the market?

[17:16:39]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Commercial_MythTV_System

[17:17:40]

sphery:

that page should probably also contain a link to mythtv-contractors google group (assuming that's not defunct)

[17:18:15]

wagnerrp:

nope, still requests going on there

[17:18:18]

sphery:

FWIW: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/445030#445030

[17:18:19]

wagnerrp:

(just few responses)

[17:18:20]

clustermagnet:

wagnerrp: sphery thanks guys!

[17:18:31]

clustermagnet:

questionâ€¦ mythtv -> youtube/other flash content

[17:18:46]

sphery:

clustermagnet: MythNetvision plugin

[17:18:46]

clustermagnet:

i am a motogp fan, motogp has an online live video streaming of all the races

[17:18:58]

clustermagnet:

so all these devices would work, correct?

[17:19:08]

clustermagnet:

i would rather buy a bundle right off the bat, versus building yet another box

[17:19:08]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision

[17:19:21]

sphery:

note that you'd have to create your own grabber for motogp

[17:19:36]

sphery:

but many would appreciate your doing so :)

[17:19:53]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision_Grabber_Script_Format

[17:20:07]

wagnerrp:

you may have to create your own grabber, if motogp provides an RSS feed of streams, you can use that directly

[17:20:15]

sphery:

ah, yeah, good point

[17:20:28]

sphery:

I should have said, "There is no grabber for motogp's site"

[17:20:28]

clustermagnet:

wagnerrp: sphery motogp is account/subscription system

[17:20:43]

clustermagnet:

you pay $150/year to watch HD racing

[17:20:57]

wagnerrp:

mythnetvision does not support login currently

[17:21:00]

sphery:

clustermagnet: now that Amazon Prime users get free video streaming, there's interest in adding support for authorization

[17:21:18]

sphery:

so if you're truly interested, you could work on adding that support

[17:21:33]

sphery:

the maintainer of MythNetvision would be able to provide some info to get you started

[17:21:36]

clustermagnet:

im not a developerâ€¦ more a sysadmin

[17:21:38]

sphery:

(actually, probably already did on list)

[17:22:01]

clustermagnet:

this would be an awesome project though, and learning is always fun

[17:22:03]

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[17:22:07]

clustermagnet:

where should i rtfm/start

[17:22:25]

sphery:

clustermagnet: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/474600#474600

[17:22:53]

sphery:

and, it seems, talk to David Schlenck on the mythtv-users list to see what he currently has

[17:23:19]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/474181#474181

[17:23:30]

sphery:

Robert is the MNV maintainer, David is an interested user

[17:23:45]

sphery:

and if you work together with David, I'm sure the 2 of you could create a nice patch for it to allow login

[17:25:33]

wagnerrp:

crap

[17:25:49]

wagnerrp:

i made changes to an unauthenticated checkout

[17:25:57]

wagnerrp:

and now i cant figure out how to provide my credentials to push

[17:26:12]

Scopeuk:

wagnerrp, cl

[17:26:27]

Scopeuk:

wagnerrp, copy it somewhere out of tree re pull then copy it back in and update?

[17:26:39]

wagnerrp:

theres like 40 some files

[17:27:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: edit the .git/config

[17:27:26]

sphery:

wagnerrp: git config remote.origin.url git@github.com :MythTV/mythtv.git

[17:27:31]

Beirdo:

change the url= line to the correct one

[17:27:35]

sphery:

but change origin to what you want

[17:27:41]

Beirdo:

yeah, same thing :)

[17:27:44]

sphery:

Beirdo: don't let him edit the DB directly!!!!

[17:27:56]

sphery:

wagnerrp: at least use the git Python bindings or something

[17:27:58]

sphery:

:)

[17:27:58]

Beirdo:

!trout sphery

[17:27:58]

** MythLogBot slaps sphery with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[17:28:00]

Beirdo:

:)

[17:28:06]

** sphery deserved that **

[17:28:21]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, found that on some support page

[17:28:32]

sphery:

I've been using that since shortly after we switch

[17:28:35]

Beirdo:

anyways, yeah, just change the URL to the correct one, and you should be good to go

[17:29:01]

Beirdo:

as both the read-only and the writable contain the same data :)

[17:29:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, RE: that guy on the -users list who lost 2 out of 3 drives in a RAID-5. I didn't want to be the one to break it to him, but odds are his list of bad recording files is just "select * from recorded" since it's RAID-5, unless some of his recordings are really short or his stripe size is really big. :|

[17:29:23]

sphery:

I keep a tarball of the anonymous repo--and work in it--but then I'll explode the tarball to a different directory and change origin when I need to push

[17:30:04]

Beirdo:

sphery likes to do things the hard way :)

[17:30:07]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: heh, yeah, I was surprised when he was talking about checking recording files for corruption, as I figured he'd have lost everything

[17:30:24]

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[17:30:34]

sphery:

but, if nothing else, the wonderful find_orphans.py script will ensure they're deleted properly (including all non-recording-table metadata).

[17:31:00]

sphery:

figured if nothing else, he can ignore the link if it's not relevant

[17:31:08]

Beirdo:

I should go get me coffee. BRB

[17:31:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: you should make a coffee-gerator

[17:31:51]

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[17:38:43]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:43:00]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: how do you set optional dependencies in an ebuild?

[17:43:15]

wagnerrp:

i.e. if im built with this option, this other thing must have this other option

[17:43:36]

clever:

wagnerrp: netbook? ( net-im/skype gnome-base/gnome-desktop net-dialup/ppp )

[17:43:47]

clever:

if the netbook use flag is set, depend on those packages

[17:44:33]

wagnerrp:

i mean something like '>=media-tv/mythtv-0.24[perl, xvid?, x264?]'

[17:45:49]

clever:

ah those, needing a flag on another package

[17:46:46]

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[17:53:40]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: if mythffmpeg exists, does nuvexport ever use ffmpeg?

[17:55:00]

Beirdo:

it won't use ffmpeg at all

[17:55:06]

Beirdo:

only mythffmpeg

[17:55:48]

Beirdo:

got too tired of endlessly chasing command lines and trying to maintain compatibility. I will only support one version.

[17:56:33]

wagnerrp:

good deal

[18:02:01]

dewman:

is this s general generic error? It occurs when trying to watch live tv after a fresh drop all tuners/sources/re-add/scan Error: Attempting to setup a player, but it already exists

[18:08:13]

sphery:

dewman: sounds like you either need to restart the backend or, possibly, that your re-create-input-connections wasn't done right

[18:08:24]

wagnerrp:

presumably youve restarted the frontend and backend during that same time?

[18:08:46]

sphery:

If the later, I'd recommend re-doing the input connections... Make sure you clear out the garbage with the approach described in http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[18:09:22]

sphery:

any other approach is likely to leave garbage that will break your re-configured system

[18:10:01]

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[18:15:18]

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[18:15:23]

wagnerrp:

http://blog.jitbit.com/2011/04/chinese-magic-drive.html

[18:15:38]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, you do what you said, example ">=dev-lang/python-2.5[berkdb,sqlite]"

[18:17:26]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i mean optional use of requirements

[18:17:37]

kormoc:

ooh

[18:17:37]

kormoc:

hrm

[18:17:43]

wagnerrp:

if this package supports xvid, this dependency should support it as well

[18:17:50]

kormoc:

ooh

[18:17:56]

wagnerrp:

hence the 'xvid?' (which i believe does it)

[18:19:40]

kormoc:

I'm kinda confused. So you want to check if the other package had a +xvid flag and then add these dependancies?

[18:21:13]

dewman:

yep, I did do a restart of the machine. I thought maybe it might have something to do with not using the device id of the hdhr....I typically delete all sources on hostname then delete the sources then check to make sure all the channels get deleted.

[18:21:31]

wagnerrp:

no, if nuvexport wants to use xvid, mythtv has to be compiled with xvid support

[18:21:41]

kormoc:

if so I'd do ((>=media-tv/mythtv-0.24[xvid] && other/dep && other/dep) || (media-tv/mythtv-0.24))

[18:21:43]

wagnerrp:

delete all... sources?

[18:21:59]

wagnerrp:

you generally never want to delete sources

[18:22:16]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, so then do "xvid? (>=media-tv/mythtv-0.24[xvid])"

[18:22:32]

kormoc:

you'd do them one per flag dep

[18:22:50]

wagnerrp:

you can have multiple instances of a single dependency?

[18:23:02]

kormoc:

yup

[18:25:33]

wagnerrp:

why would anyone want social tv?

[18:25:48]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, cause one likes talking during movies!

[18:25:51]

wagnerrp:

CBS is starting to have twitter popups from cast members during shows

[18:26:03]

wagnerrp:

ive seen little more annoying in my entire life

[18:26:03]

kormoc:

why watch the show when you can chat

[18:27:25]

wagnerrp:

this guy got $80k to add social networking during livetv to mythtv???

[18:27:45]

wagnerrp:

with a possible additional $400k/

[18:28:48]

wagnerrp:

no, contrary to the title, this has nothing to do with social networking

[18:28:51]

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[18:29:09]

wagnerrp:

but rather targeted ad insertion in place of detected ads

[18:29:47]

wagnerrp:

somehow hes got a patent filed for this

[18:29:53]

wagnerrp:

hasnt tivo done this for years?

[18:30:26]

kormoc:

heh

[18:30:34]

kormoc:

never underestimate the power of never giving up

[18:30:51]

kormoc:

he's sent me numerous messages wanting me to contract with him to get myth support for this

[18:30:59]

kormoc:

and just sent me another one yesterday

[18:31:27]

Beirdo:

why doesn't he use the -contractor list?

[18:31:37]

wagnerrp:

he did

[18:31:37]

kormoc:

he did

[18:31:41]

Scopeuk is now known as Scopeuk-AFK

[18:31:48]

Beirdo:

yeah, once

[18:31:57]

Beirdo:

but wouldn't give any details to anyone who asked

[18:32:27]

wagnerrp:

i realize commercial skipping is a touchy subject as far as broadcasters is concerned

[18:32:31]

Beirdo:

or am I thinking of another dork?

[18:32:39]

wagnerrp:

but replacing their ads with your own?

[18:32:46]

wagnerrp:

just seems like a really bad idea

[18:33:10]

kormoc:

Beirdo, nah, he wants you to sign a NDA

[18:33:30]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, exactly

[18:33:34]

wagnerrp:

unless you want to contract with them directly, add a detectable flag to the stream, and give them a cut of the advertising

[18:34:02]

kormoc:

He's gunning for a suing

[18:34:18]

Beirdo:

he filed almost 2 years ago too

[18:36:57]

Beirdo:

oh that reminds me

[18:37:03]

Beirdo:

I have a commflag test to run again

[18:38:14]

Beirdo:

it worked once (very spammily) last night on a file that previously crashed mythcommflag

[18:39:44]

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[18:40:53]

MylesMan:

I have channels that aren't being populated w/ guide info

[18:41:13]

MylesMan:

for some reason

[18:41:56]

wagnerrp:

chances are they have no xmltvid

[18:42:19]

wagnerrp:

so mythtv has no way to match data from your xmltv provider

[18:42:40]

MylesMan:

can i rectify this

[18:42:43]

MylesMan:

?

[18:42:59]

wagnerrp:

go into one of the channel editors in mythtv, and define the xmltvids for the channel

[18:43:05]

wagnerrp:

then run mythfilldatabase

[18:43:22]

MylesMan:

what should the id be

[18:43:36]

wagnerrp:

whatever your xmltv provider wants it to be

[18:43:53]

MylesMan:

how do i find this out

[18:44:17]

wagnerrp:

depends entirely on your xmltv provider

[18:44:56]

MylesMan:

would Shedules direct be my provider

[18:44:58]

MylesMan:

?

[18:45:18]

wagnerrp:

if thats where you download your guide data from, then yes

[18:45:32]

wagnerrp:

in t hat case, go onto their website, and mouse-over the channel you want to see, to get the xmltvid

[18:45:59]

MylesMan:

ok i just checked one of the channels and it has an id in it

[18:46:09]

MylesMan:

in the editor

[18:46:11]

Beirdo:

YYA

[18:46:15]

Beirdo:

YAY even

[18:46:29]

MylesMan:

lol

[18:46:49]

MylesMan:

but it isn't pulling data

[18:47:37]

MylesMan:

i suppose i could dbl chk the id

[18:47:57]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Has anyone yet mentioned that building w/ --enable-libx264 and --enable-libxvid can both cause odd myth crashes?

[18:48:15]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: Those are the insane flags that the debian packager uses that I'm always complaining about

[18:48:47]

wagnerrp:

thats what i was asking beirdo earlier

[18:48:52]

wagnerrp:

if those still had any side effects

[18:48:55]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, maybe they won't happen any more, but worth looking out for

[18:49:28]

iamlindoro:

I'm not suggesting you go one way or another with it, just raising the issue that we should keep our eyes open with those in

[18:49:45]

Beirdo:

I haven't seen any effect at all in myth

[18:49:58]

wagnerrp:

also why i only did it for trunk, and not 0.24 as the pull request wanted

[18:51:08]

MylesMan:

ok the id's are right

[18:51:16]

MylesMan:

any ideas?

[18:52:06]

MylesMan:

short of doing a retrieve lineup again

[18:52:25]

Beirdo:

yeah, we'll keep our eyes open, but to my knowledge they make no difference to the code path used in myth itself as we don't encode to xvid or x264

[18:52:46]

wagnerrp:

MylesMan: try doing with a '--dd-grab-all

[18:52:56]

Beirdo:

it gives the debian types nightmares due to the licensing/freeness of said libraries though

[18:52:57]

wagnerrp:

just 'mythfilldatabase --dd-grab-all'

[18:52:57]

MylesMan:

ok

[18:53:58]

MylesMan:

what does that do out of curiousity? dump every thing and refresh?

[18:56:15]

wagnerrp:

effectively

[18:56:28]

wagnerrp:

its the preferred way to call it

[18:56:32]

MylesMan:

thx

[18:56:34]

MylesMan:

:D

[18:56:36]

wagnerrp:

better data for you, less processing for datadirect

[18:56:47]

wagnerrp:

(just with a lot more processing on your end once a day)

[18:58:35]

MylesMan:

it says awaiting response...... 401 unauthorized somewhere in the output what does that mean?

[18:58:59]

iamlindoro:

It means things are working as normal

[18:59:05]

MylesMan:

ok

[18:59:08]

iamlindoro:

it's how HTTP authorization works

[18:59:18]

iamlindoro:

requests, gets unauthorized, and thus knows to try authentication

[18:59:38]

MylesMan:

makes sense

[18:59:59]

Wicked:

last night i was having issues with my hdpvr cutting in and out while recording. Could lots of disk i/o make that happen?

[19:00:52]

Wicked:

http://pastebin.com/t0XNA6Z4

[19:00:59]

MylesMan:

how long will the dd-grab-all take versus a normal mfdb

[19:01:02]

MylesMan:

?

[19:01:27]

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[19:03:35]

iamlindoro:

Can often take less time

[19:04:03]

iamlindoro:

since the server doesn't need to cull the data down into the chunks you absolutely must have, it just sends you the whole shebang for 14 days

[19:04:28]

iamlindoro:

The data transfer is trivial, it's the dropping and inserting that can take a little longer, but for most of us it's still on the order of a few minutes at most

[19:05:33]

MylesMan:

ok i've an older 1+ ghz machine 256mb ram celeron

[19:05:49]

iamlindoro:

Only way to know for sure is to try it

[19:06:35]

MylesMan:

meaning to upgrade to 512, but too lazy (the ram's in the study nextdoor to my room) lol

[19:07:20]

MylesMan:

what does it normally send if not 14 days at a time

[19:07:28]

wagnerrp:

oof... yeah...

[19:07:34]

wagnerrp:

256MB is really insufficient

[19:07:36]

iamlindoro:

tomorrow and 14 days from now

[19:07:42]

wagnerrp:

independently

[19:08:47]

MylesMan:

256mb isnt actually that bad save for watching a rec. while commflagging another

[19:08:59]

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[19:09:15]

wagnerrp:

yes, yes it really is

[19:09:40]

wagnerrp:

unless using a simple theme at 640x480, youre going to be swapping heavily

[19:10:08]

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[19:10:13]

MylesMan:

i'm doing just that mythbuntu theme at 640x480

[19:10:26]

MylesMan:

i was at 1024x768

[19:10:37]

wagnerrp:

the mythbuntu theme, with artwork, is going to result in swapping

[19:10:41]

wagnerrp:

im talking mythcenter

[19:10:50]

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[19:11:08]

MylesMan:

ah yes i do notice a 2–5 delay

[19:11:13]

MylesMan:

w/the art

[19:11:22]

MylesMan:

2–5 sec

[19:12:14]

MylesMan:

but i'm a patient man for the most part

[19:12:43]

MylesMan:

i suppose being disabled helps tho

[19:12:47]

MylesMan:

lol

[19:15:07]

MylesMan:

i'm a little ticked i just bought a new 32" Philips HDTV and my rig will only do S-video(curently hooked up) and VGA

[19:15:44]

wagnerrp:

spend $150, replace your innards

[19:16:04]

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[19:16:17]

MylesMan:

idk if it's worth it

[19:16:29]

MylesMan:

the rig's 10 yrs old

[19:16:53]

MylesMan:

so idk how much life it's got

[19:17:24]

MylesMan:

or what this thing will take as i dont believe it has PCI

[19:18:00]

wagnerrp:

what what thing?

[19:18:10]

MylesMan:

my rig

[19:18:24]

MylesMan:

in terms of card choices

[19:18:49]

wagnerrp:

changing a card wont fix it, you need a new processor and memory

[19:19:10]

wagnerrp:

a low end dual core athlon, onboard nvidia, and 2Gb of DDR2 will run around $160

[19:20:09]

MylesMan:

i was thinking of going to wally-world or my local comp shop and buying a new rig for cheap

[19:20:33]

MylesMan:

even a modern low-end rig would out-pace this one

[19:20:41]

dewman:

heck if you want to be cheap check out craigslist..

[19:20:47]

dewman:

=)

[19:21:02]

MylesMan:

we dont have cl in canada

[19:21:09]

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[19:21:09]

Beirdo:

yes you do

[19:21:17]

MylesMan:

rlly?

[19:21:20]

MylesMan:

lol

[19:21:34]

Beirdo:

in the major cities, yes

[19:21:37]

dewman:

yes, cl is worldwide

[19:21:53]

MylesMan:

i'm not in 1 sadly

[19:22:13]

Beirdo:

Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Saskatoon, Toronto, Vancouver, Victoria, Winnipeg

[19:22:16]

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[19:22:33]

Beirdo:

I thought Regina was on the list too, but it doesn't show right now for me

[19:23:08]

Beirdo:

and then if you click on Toronto, many other areas of Ontario, show up

[19:23:13]

Beirdo:

just go look :)

[19:23:39]

MylesMan:

that and i've 20 yrs of IT exp. it's fun playing w/a salesmen like he's cat nip :P

[19:24:10]

Beirdo:

heck, even Barrie has CL

[19:25:38]

wagnerrp:

newegg.ca prices... Asrock MiniITX GF8200 AM3, $60. Ath II X2 3Ghz, $60. crucial 2x1GB PC2 6400, $34

[19:25:45]

wagnerrp:

so $155 for all new parts

[19:25:55]

wagnerrp:

use your hard drive, power supply, case, and IR receiver

[19:26:32]

MylesMan:

i dont have an ir-box

[19:26:32]

wagnerrp:

capable of playing anything up to and including bluray, at full resolution on your display

[19:26:43]

wagnerrp:

existing keyboard and mouse then

[19:27:52]

MylesMan:

well my usb card has an ir reciever but would it be in my interest to pickup a box?

[19:28:22]

wagnerrp:

i doubt youre going to find a pre-built machine for cheaper than that

[19:29:03]

MylesMan:

ur right but i've no idea what make or socket the mobo is

[19:29:20]

wagnerrp:

what mobo?

[19:29:31]

MylesMan:

in this rig

[19:29:37]

wagnerrp:

what does it matter?

[19:29:52]

MylesMan:

socket type for the cpu

[19:30:08]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to buy a new CPU for that motherboard?

[19:30:36]

MylesMan:

oh is the asrock the rig?

[19:30:38]

MylesMan:

lol

[19:30:49]

wagnerrp:

the asrock is a microatx board, with integrated nvidia graphics

[19:31:12]

MylesMan:

i thought it was the card manufacturer (ie. diamond) lol

[19:31:16]

MylesMan:

my bad

[19:31:27]

wagnerrp:

integrated DVI, and you can get an HDMI adapter for a few bucks

[19:32:26]

abqjp:

Wicked: the HD-PVR driver is *very* sensitive to system load. Even though we use a ring-buffer to try and survive resource starvation, if Myth does not *constantly* read from the driver, the driver will stop reading from the hardware, and the hardware will stop recording. I believe it is also possible that even if myth does constantly read from the driver, that high system load could cause the driver to not get enough resources, and the d

[19:32:28]

abqjp:

itself may not read from the hardware fast enough.

[19:32:34]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, its a rare occasion where its cost effective to upgrade the processor on an existing board

[19:32:46]

abqjp:

Wicked: when Myth notices that the HD-PVR driver is not sending data, it will re-start the recording, but you will lose a few seconds.

[19:33:23]

Wicked:

ah

[19:33:27]

MylesMan:

can I have a link wagner

[19:33:31]

MylesMan:

plz?

[19:33:45]

Wicked:

i think thats what was happening. i had lots of disk io from some scripts i use.

[19:33:56]

MylesMan:

to that rig?

[19:33:57]

Wicked:

im now trying to make them use ionice to see if that will help

[19:37:29]

wagnerrp:

MylesMan: dont have them open any longer

[19:37:35]

wagnerrp:

i was just pulling prices off newegg.ca

[19:38:09]

MylesMan:

oh ok i thought it was pre-built

[19:38:14]

MylesMan:

thx

[19:38:17]

MylesMan:

:D

[19:38:25]

wagnerrp:

no, just retail parts, piecemeal

[19:38:37]

MylesMan:

ah

[19:39:36]

MylesMan:

well I'm heading to edmonton in a cpl months on my way home to wpg i'll prolly just by a new rig then

[19:39:40]

wagnerrp:

i was actually looking for a cpu/mobo combo, since those are usually a bit cheaper

[19:39:52]

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[19:39:52]

wagnerrp:

but the only ones they seem to have are atom-based

[19:39:59]

wagnerrp:

which IMHO is incorrect

[19:40:22]

wagnerrp:

since its not really a combo when the CPU comes irreplaceably soldered to the board

[19:40:52]

MylesMan:

any particular tips when it comes to buying a myth-ready rig

[19:41:07]

MylesMan:

or will any modern one do

[19:44:03]

wagnerrp:

some people like the IONs (atom + nvidia/vdpau) for frontends, but theyre not going to be any cheaper that that $120 for board and AMD processor

[19:44:32]

wagnerrp:

you do get a smaller machine, with lower power consumption, but at considerable loss to flexibility

[19:44:38]

MylesMan:

it'll be a combo fe/be

[19:45:00]

wagnerrp:

for a master or combo backend, you definitely want a real CPU

[19:45:09]

MylesMan:

ok

[19:45:14]

wagnerrp:

and for that, any modern processor (sans atom/nano/arm) will do

[19:45:27]

MylesMan:

core 2 etc

[19:45:31]

wagnerrp:

make that, any dual core or better processor

[19:45:32]

MylesMan:

that type

[19:45:46]

wagnerrp:

you dont want to bother with single core semprons and the like

[19:46:02]

MylesMan:

what is vdpau anyway

[19:46:09]

wagnerrp:

nvidia graphics are preferred, onboard intel on the core i3/i5 should work

[19:46:14]

wagnerrp:

stay away from amd graphics

[19:46:25]

wagnerrp:

vdpau is nvidias hardware decoding solution

[19:46:46]

MylesMan:

ok

[19:46:49]

wagnerrp:

intel and amd use vaapi, which is not currently supported

[19:47:11]

MylesMan:

so pretty much any modern desktop w/nvidia card

[19:47:15]

MylesMan:

will do

[19:47:33]

MylesMan:

and the grab all worked btw thx

[19:47:36]

wagnerrp:

or onboard nvidia, 8000 series or better

[19:47:43]

MylesMan:

ok

[19:48:00]

MylesMan:

i tend to dislike onboard

[19:48:11]

MylesMan:

just a personal pref

[19:48:37]

wagnerrp:

in that case, look for a GT210, usually available for ~$25

[19:49:13]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: so lossless transcodes will no longer hang after theyre done processing?

[19:49:15]

wagnerrp:

fantastic

[19:49:19]

MylesMan:

ok so either onboard 8k or better or GT210 or better

[19:49:46]

wagnerrp:

anything 8-series or better is usable

[19:49:58]

wagnerrp:

by the 8 and 9 series cards are old and getting a bit rare

[19:50:07]

wagnerrp:

and the GT210 is available just as cheaply as the older cards

[19:50:34]

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[19:50:40]

MylesMan:

i suppose then that that'd be a good time to jump to 0.24

[19:50:46]

MylesMan:

as well

[19:50:59]

wagnerrp:

youll want to re-install for the new hardware, so you may as well

[19:51:28]

wagnerrp:

reinstall for 64-bit, that is

[19:51:49]

wagnerrp:

upgrading from 32-bit to 64-bit is not something you really want to attempt

[19:52:28]

MylesMan:

any particular flavour/distro u recommend

[19:52:30]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: AFAICT, they shouldn't, that is correct

[19:53:05]

skd5aner:

I'd pay some decent money for a few good 8600's with component out

[19:53:06]

wagnerrp:

ive got about 20 cutlists queued up

[19:53:10]

Beirdo:

the threads are all messy in their own ways for clean shutdown

[19:53:17]

Beirdo:

that one was nasty :)

[19:53:38]

Beirdo:

cool. give one a shot. If it still hangs, there's more fixin' to do

[19:53:53]

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[19:54:24]

Beirdo:

it's far enough off the beaten path that I figured it can't hurt to just implement the proposed fix which seems to do what we really want.

[19:54:33]

wagnerrp:

gotta upgrade first

[19:54:43]

MylesMan:

are there component capture cards?

[19:54:43]

Beirdo:

using thread.terminate() is discouraged in QThread docs anyways

[19:54:44]

wagnerrp:

im about two weeks old

[19:54:51]

wagnerrp:

MylesMan: hauppauge HDPVR

[19:54:53]

skd5aner:

MylesMan: HD-PVR

[19:54:57]

Beirdo:

ahh, OK. No hurry.

[19:55:00]

wagnerrp:

more expensive than that whole upgrade

[19:55:17]

Beirdo:

if it's still wonky, let me know, we'll dive into it again

[19:55:19]

Diverdude (Diverdude!~Diverdude@1709ds1-vbr.0.fullrate.dk) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

[19:55:43]

MylesMan:

than i'll just stick w/my usb card

[19:55:56]

MylesMan:

it does juuuust fine

[19:55:59]

MylesMan:

lol

[19:57:33]

Beirdo:

gonna avoid backporting as much as possible. :)

[19:58:29]

MylesMan:

Can I ask, why are the mpeg recording file names so long?

[19:58:39]

MylesMan:

in the storage dir

[19:58:39]

Beirdo:

sure you can ask :)

[19:58:44]

MylesMan:

lol

[19:58:54]

Beirdo:

channel id followed by datestamp of start

[19:59:00]

Beirdo:

pretty hard to get shorter

[19:59:23]

wagnerrp:

well we could have a completely arbitrary hash, or incrementing value

[19:59:24]

MylesMan:

can they not be the show name+ startdate?

[19:59:46]

Beirdo:

they coulda been, but that would be even longer

[19:59:47]

wagnerrp:

no point to it

[19:59:54]

Beirdo:

and yeah, messier too

[20:00:10]

Beirdo:

get ,:?'" in the filenames

[20:00:43]

MylesMan:

it'd be easier to identify when digging for something old to clear up space lol

[20:01:00]

wagnerrp:

but youre not supposed to go digging for something old to clear up space

[20:01:16]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:01:23]

wagnerrp:

youre either supposed to recording the file from within mythtv, or let the auto-expirer do it for you

[20:02:00]

MylesMan:

i have stuff set not to expire

[20:02:17]

wagnerrp:

then manually delete it from within the GUI or mythweb

[20:02:22]

wagnerrp:

not the filesystem

[20:02:40]

Beirdo:

why would you set it not to expire, and then manually want to expire?

[20:02:52]

wagnerrp:

mythtv has no way of knowing if a missing recording is deleted, or just due to an unmounted filesystem

[20:02:58]

wagnerrp:

so it cannot safely cleanse the database

[20:03:19]

MylesMan:

i ran out of space couldn't login

[20:04:35]

MylesMan:

i have old recs. deleted w/in myth still in the filesystem how can i delete them totallu

[20:04:49]

MylesMan:

totally*

[20:05:00]

wagnerrp:

in 0.24? find_orphans.py

[20:05:12]

Beirdo:

heh.

[20:05:17]

MylesMan:

what about 23.1

[20:05:43]

wagnerrp:

theres an older script, but i cant speak on its properness

[20:07:01]

MylesMan:

i dont wanna upgrade i was having all kinds of probs (months ago mind you

[20:07:18]

MylesMan:

and i also like having custom osd

[20:07:40]

MylesMan:

but i'd prolly be better of upgrading

[20:10:15]

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[20:11:22]

MylesMan:

i have this mythtv_media in /tmp what is that?

[20:11:33]

wagnerrp:

ugh... why is it that anyone with any foundation in science stays out of politics?

[20:11:54]

wagnerrp:

no idea what that might be

[20:13:37]

MylesMan:

b/c most laypeople wouldn't know/understand the persons scientific credentials and ergo merits from a hole in the ground?

[20:13:54]

MylesMan:

and thus wouldn't vote for them

[20:15:59]

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[20:16:26]

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[20:17:09]

rwat:

can the panel recommend a dual-tuner dvb-t device for use with ubuntu?

[20:17:23]

wagnerrp:

!url tuners

[20:17:23]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[20:17:41]

MylesMan:

anyway folks thx for the help i'm out of here

[20:18:05]

rwat:

wagnerrp, tnx

[20:18:25]

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[20:22:37]

rwat:

I'm looking at the Nova-TD USB but I'm a bit concerned because the single tuner Nova-T I have is constantly filling up dmesg with dvb_frontend_ioctl messages and seems to have recently stopped working

[20:27:41]

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[20:28:18]

devinheitmueller:

I've decided. I hate users.

[20:28:35]

devinheitmueller:

"I bought my tuner in 2006 and it still isn't supported under Linux! Unbelievable!"

[20:29:01]

wagnerrp:

doesnt appear to be on our list

[20:29:13]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: no, it's over on linux-media.

[20:29:20]

devinheitmueller:

Sorry, complaining to the wrong user base. :-)

[20:29:52]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: Well if you guys would just get up on off your asses and do a little work around here maybe we'd have decent tuner support ;)

[20:30:00]

devinheitmueller:

indeed.

[20:30:09]

iamlindoro:

hah

[20:30:10]

devinheitmueller:

I knew I was doing *something* wrong.

[20:30:13]

iamlindoro:

haha

[20:30:35]

iamlindoro:

Out of curiosity, is it a tuner with an unfriendly manufacturer/chipset manuf?

[20:30:54]

devinheitmueller:

The demod and tuner chips themselves are supported. I don't know about the bridge in question though.

[20:30:56]

** devinheitmueller looks **

[20:31:20]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: so 'dows' is a naughty word?

[20:32:06]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, it's an saa7162. That explains alot.

[20:33:00]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, no it's not. :-/

[20:33:06]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller: What's the thread?

[20:33:13]

iamlindoro:

(/me is checking the archive)

[20:33:19]

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[20:33:25]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: [linux-dvb] Pinnacle PCTV Dual DVB-T Pro PCI 2000i

[20:33:44]

iamlindoro:

hah, what a douche

[20:33:45]

devinheitmueller:

Oh, it's some custom NEC bridge.

[20:33:57]

devinheitmueller:

It's branded as a "Pinnacle DTV bridge".

[20:34:00]

iamlindoro:

and not even a linux user, just complaining because you guys are keeping him out ;)

[20:34:16]

iamlindoro:

Maybe you should stop being so exclusive with your modern hardware

[20:34:26]

iamlindoro:

everyone knows linux is for running on 486 SX's

[20:34:33]

wagnerrp:

surely there are inexpensive dual DVB-T tuners he could purchase as a replacement

[20:40:26]

wagnerrp:

so hes obviously not paying for drivers

[20:40:52]

wagnerrp:

and after five years and claiming hes not capable of software development, hes clearly not contributing anything

[20:40:52]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: well, if I thought he was paying for drivers I probably wouldn't have offered to refund his money...

[20:41:19]

wagnerrp:

so why does he think the community has any obligation to make his tuner card work?

[20:42:16]

devinheitmueller:

naivety?

[20:42:27]

wagnerrp:

ive never seen windows users this bitchy

[20:42:38]

wagnerrp:

its only when those windows users try to run linux that they get this way

[20:42:41]

devinheitmueller:

Well, hardware just *ships* with Windows drivers.

[20:42:51]

wagnerrp:

it makes no sense

[20:43:12]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: there was never this kind of ranting going on when people were waiting for 64-bit windows drivers

[20:43:19]

wagnerrp:

none that i saw anyway

[20:43:33]

devinheitmueller:

Well, all the cost is in the hardware. There is no cost to developing drivers, since after all that's *software*.

[20:44:03]

wagnerrp:

if that were the case, why not bitch to the company about not supporting linux

[20:44:19]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: Many people do just that.

[20:44:22]

wagnerrp:

considering if you include the server market, linux probably has a 25? 30% worldwide market share?

[20:44:47]

devinheitmueller:

Because almost none of those 30% of servers have TV tuners installed.

[20:45:05]

wagnerrp:

(well sure)

[20:45:14]

wagnerrp:

and that 3% desktop share doesnt count for much either

[20:45:27]

devinheitmueller:

Uh, probably only 1% of that total 3% has a tuner.

[20:45:42]

devinheitmueller:

So now you're talking about 0.03%.

[20:45:56]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but what percentage of windows users have a tuner

[20:46:05]

wagnerrp:

probably 1% or less again

[20:46:17]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: hardmounted vs. softmounted nfs?

[20:47:36]

Beirdo:

yeah, if it's hardmounted (default) with no intr support... it will wait forever for the nfs server to respond

[20:47:46]

devinheitmueller:

It's pretty easy to start to see the economics: wow, I *might* be able to sell an extra 10K worth of tuners if I spend 50K worth of engineer time.

[20:48:04]

Beirdo:

if it's softmounted (and with intr support perhaps), it would error immediately saying it's not there

[20:48:05]

wagnerrp:

didnt know there was a difference

[20:48:38]

wagnerrp:

but... but... linux developers work for free!

[20:49:08]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: Well, apparently they both work for free and aren't doing a good enough job to satisfy users.

[20:49:37]

wagnerrp:

work for free harder

[20:49:45]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: exactly!

[20:49:46]

** wagnerrp signals the drummer for progRAMMING SPEED! **

[20:50:06]

devinheitmueller:

:-)

[20:53:42]

skd5aner:

I've decided. I hate devs.

[20:53:49]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you need to put a regulator on your kegerator to maintain the ballmer peak

[20:54:00]

skd5aner:

"<devinheitmueller> I've decided. I hate users."

[20:54:05]

skd5aner:

because – they hated me first

[20:54:27]

skd5aner:

and, they're always contributing... stuff

[20:56:09]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: to be fair, devin's complaint was spurned on by someone who clearly wasnt a user

[20:57:07]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: I don't consider you a user.

[20:57:28]

devinheitmueller:

skd5aner: I consider you to be an "advanced user"

[20:57:41]

skd5aner:

oooooooh, I've been chosen!

[20:58:01]

devinheitmueller:

...or perhaps an "enLightened user"

[20:58:08]

devinheitmueller:

... which I will happily abbreviate as luser.

[20:58:10]

devinheitmueller:

:-0

[20:58:12]

devinheitmueller:

:-)

[20:58:39]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: heh – but the "advanced users" are the ones that the pro-embedded DB devs hate... I can't win :/

[20:58:41]

wagnerrp:

hes a prolific documenter?

[20:58:41]

sphery:

Beirdo: remember that intr/nointr is ignored after 2.6.25

[20:58:56]

wagnerrp:

a documentation monkey!

[20:59:00]

Beirdo:

yes, but the behavior of hard vs soft mount remains

[20:59:00]

sphery:

only sigkill can interrupt nfs ops on later kernels

[20:59:08]

** wagnerrp turns the crank on the music machine **

[20:59:09]

wagnerrp:

:P

[20:59:17]

devinheitmueller:

:-p

[20:59:27]

sphery:

soft and hard mounts still apply, though

[20:59:33]

iamlindoro:

That's what she said

[20:59:34]

Beirdo:

if you hardmount stuff, you are telling it to lock solid waiting for the reply

[20:59:39]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: hey now – I've submitted like – 3 basically-trivial patches in my day, so that makes me... uh... something

[20:59:51]

Beirdo:

so that's not a bug in mythtv, that's a stupidly mounted NFS setup :)

[20:59:54]

wagnerrp:

puts you worlds beyond most people

[21:00:17]

Beirdo:

skd5aner: and your work on the changelog... :) much appreciated

[21:00:28]

sphery:

so, I heard that any tuner from 2006 or before is definitely supported in the kernel, right? maybe we should change !tuners to just say, "2006 or before"

[21:00:40]

Beirdo:

haha

[21:00:54]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: exactly!

[21:00:58]

skd5aner:

Beido get's the award for breaking the longest non-committed period for .24-fixes today

[21:01:08]

skd5aner:

10 days!

[21:01:13]

Beirdo:

heh. dang

[21:01:22]

sphery:

Beirdo has no fear of commitment

[21:01:29]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: We all stopped working on them in 2006. There hasn't been anything new supported after that date.

[21:01:30]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[21:01:58]

wagnerrp:

ice cream truck outside

[21:02:03]

skd5aner:

devinheitmueller: well, it's not like NTSC wasn't a standard for what... 60 years – what would have changed?! And ATSC, will last us another 60 at least!

[21:02:17]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: ah, no problem. Mine are actually 2006 vintage pcHDTV 3000, so we're all good

[21:02:21]

devinheitmueller:

heh.

[21:02:36]

skd5aner:

yea, I'm running the Air2PC cards – HD5500's or whatever

[21:02:42]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: Well, apparently then your cards should work way better than the HDHR then.

[21:02:49]

wagnerrp:

was anyone else the strange child that found the ice cream truck annoying, and complained that they charged 5x what the supermarket did?

[21:02:56]

sphery:

now we can concentrate on the important things for kernel driver development--like touchscreens and kinect

[21:03:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: we didn't have an ice cream truck--just a snow cone truck, and I couldn't get snow cones at the supermarket

[21:05:18]

skd5aner:

this one I believe – http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/TechniS . . . r-HD5000-PCI

[21:05:48]

skd5aner:

yup – http://www.bbti.us/products_airstar_hd5000_pci.htm

[21:06:29]

skd5aner:

Although I already pulled one of them out that was acting a bit flakey – probably ought to pull the other one out and just use my second NIB HDHR

[21:06:34]

Beirdo:

touchscreens are cool :)

[21:07:12]

skd5aner:

a mythical mythtv touchscreen setup

[21:10:08]

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[21:11:24]

wagnerrp:

touch screens are nice, but really only useful in a limited duration

[21:12:11]

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[21:34:58]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: smolt.mythtv.org is still incredibly intermittent for me

[21:35:10]

iamlindoro:

Trying to pull up a public profile fails with a 500 Internal Error

[21:35:16]

iamlindoro:

http://smolt.mythtv.org/client/show/?uuid=pub . . . bb000a0e562d

[21:35:41]

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[21:35:55]

iamlindoro:

Hmm

[21:36:37]

iamlindoro:

That might be a deleted profile, now I'm confused

[21:37:37]

iamlindoro:

ok, nm, second call to the function got it. Weird.

[21:38:10]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: yeah, i think its issues with python being single threaded

[21:38:26]

wagnerrp:

it just doesnt make for a robust web server

[21:38:57]

iamlindoro:

Yeah. Maybe so-- well anyway, shortly it'll be possible to admin a headless server's profile from the BE webserver, that will be nice

[21:39:53]

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[21:40:30]

wagnerrp:

i need to figure out where i put that replacement smolt code

[21:40:42]

wagnerrp:

i think it may be hidden on one of my old frontend images

[21:44:17]

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[22:14:17]

Beirdo:

woohoo.

[22:14:41]

Beirdo:

benched Phil Hughes today. and he got whomped by the Red Sox

[22:14:42]

Beirdo:

:)

[22:24:46]

croppa is now known as croppa_

[22:28:56]

Beirdo:

coool

[22:29:05]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: check out #9693

[22:29:14]

Beirdo:

last modified... 41 years ago!?

[22:29:30]

Beirdo:

anyways, jamu crash, not sure where that should be filed.

[22:30:49]

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[22:34:47]

sphery:

Heh, and Devin's user was upset that someone didn't create a brand new driver for his card in 5 years. Here we have a ticket for a crash that we've let sit, and haven't fixed, for 41 years.

[22:35:12]

sphery:

Guess he could have another 36 years to wait for his driver

[22:35:55]

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[22:56:15]

kormoc:

41 years?

[22:58:08]

abqjp:

Beirdo: do you now what "exit status 134" means from the commflagger? I have been getting a fair number of those lately. I have not looked at the logs yet.

[23:03:09]

sphery:

abqjp: according to exitcodes.h, (in master) it would be GENERIC_EXIT_DB_ERROR. However, it's probably more likely that you're running on a platform where SIGABRT is signal 6, and it's actually dying because of SIGABRT, so the shell gives the status 128 + signal #

[23:03:27]

sphery:

abqjp: or, it is /technically/ possible that it found 134 commercial breaks... not likely, though :)

[23:03:35]

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[23:10:30]

abqjp:

sphery: thanks. It an error code. I have had several shows in the last week not get flagged. I should update to latest "master", and hopefully the problem will magically go away ;-)

[23:11:05]

sphery:

if not, if you can re-run mythcommflag on them and grab a backtrace on the abort, that would be very useful

[23:11:09]

abqjp:

If it is segfaulting (which is actually likely), then I will work on getting a BT.

[23:11:17]

sphery:

thx

[23:11:48]

abqjp:

They play fine on the frontend.

[23:12:41]

abqjp:

So, VDPAU does not have a problem, but software decode might.

[23:13:51]

abqjp:

It is interesting, that in all cases, the problem occurs with OTA mpeg2.

[23:15:50]

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[23:16:03]

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[23:16:55]

Beirdo:

sorry, yeah, sphery has it covered

[23:17:00]

Beirdo:

is it an ubuntu machine?

[23:17:13]

sphery:

ah, forgot about that one

[23:17:42]

Beirdo:

the signal number SHOULD be parsed correctly, and is on everything but ubuntu, it seems

[23:18:25]

Beirdo:

I'm going to add a wee bit of code in there that says if the exit code was > 128 (in commflag returns), then assume you have a buggered system and it needs byte swapping

[23:19:30]

Beirdo:

unless we think we legitimately will be getting 128 commercial breaks, that should work just fine

[23:23:14]

sphery:

then we won't know when it crashes?

[23:23:43]

sphery:

I think we need to have wagnerrp rewrite how it reports the number of breaks, so it doesn't rely on exit code

[23:23:50]

sphery:

(as part of his jobqueue stuff :)

[23:23:58]

abqjp:

Fedora 14

[23:26:53]

sphery:

yeah, so this is probably an abort

[23:29:13]

Beirdo:

we will know when it crashes

[23:29:26]

Beirdo:

as it will have a bogus exit return of > 128

[23:29:41]

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[23:29:54]

Beirdo:

which we'd have to make sure we never exit with from mythcommflag

[23:30:30]

Beirdo:

it wouldn't surprise me at all if that were an abort

[23:31:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: very much part of the plan

[23:32:02]

wagnerrp:

i always hated that bit of mythcommflag

[23:32:13]

sphery:

yeah, me too

[23:32:15]

wagnerrp:

exit codes for anything other that exit states == bad

[23:32:25]

sphery:

it was a nice shortcut back in the day

[23:32:28]

Beirdo:

well, they are fine, BUT...

[23:32:30]

sphery:

but we've progressed since then

[23:32:35]

Beirdo:

we'd have to be consistent

[23:32:41]

Beirdo:

and we sure aren't

[23:32:43]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:32:56]

sphery:

just figured that with your rework on job queue, you'd probably have the best idea for the how

[23:32:57]

Beirdo:

it is the major standout in that regards

[23:33:07]

Beirdo:

yup, feel free to redo it :)

[23:33:13]

sphery:

or if it's just sending a message to the backend, then let me know and I can put it on my todo

[23:33:26]

Beirdo:

we'll help whereever ya need

[23:33:30]

sphery:

yeah

[23:39:31]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: im kind of mixed about fixing jamu

[23:39:57]

wagnerrp:

i mean its a huge code base that i dont really know my way around, and its always issues with unicode handling

[23:40:03]

wagnerrp:

you know how much i like unicode handling

[23:40:05]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:40:27]

Beirdo:

we don't really have a good place for reporting that unless jamu has a googlecode page :)

[23:40:27]

wagnerrp:

but is sphery gets his stuff in and the recordings migrated over to it for 0.25

[23:40:51]

wagnerrp:

we can have a proper metadata grabber for recordings

[23:40:59]

wagnerrp:

removing the need for jamu

[23:41:00]

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[23:42:13]

Beirdo:

yeah

[23:42:25]

Beirdo:

likely based on jamu code, I'd think

[23:42:35]

Beirdo:

but refactored or whatever

[23:43:12]

Beirdo:

OK, scotch at xris' desk

[23:43:13]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:43:19]

Beirdo:

his last day workin here.

[23:43:28]

iamlindoro:

erm.... What would be based on jamu?

[23:43:31]

Beirdo:

I think I'll bring my bottle over there.

[23:44:02]

Beirdo:

metadata grabber for recordings... at least some of the logic would likely be somewhat based on jamu, one would think

[23:44:03]

iamlindoro:

We already have metadata code capable of handling recordings-- it's the same exact metadata code used in mythvideo-- there's nothing to write/base on Jamu

[23:44:08]

Beirdo:

ah

[23:44:14]

Beirdo:

perfect, even better :)

[23:44:18]

iamlindoro:

Jamu's logic is based on my mythvideo loginc, not the other way around

[23:44:26]

Beirdo:

I get easily confused at times :)

[23:44:46]

Beirdo:

but...scotch time, them baseball game

[23:44:50]

iamlindoro:

Doesn't need any changes, you just create a lookup object, set the title and subtitle, tell it it's a video object, and fire it into the lookup thread

[23:44:58]

Beirdo:

so I'll talk to ya guys... later :)

[23:45:03]

iamlindoro:

when the lookup object comes back, it's fully populated

[23:45:10]

Beirdo:

sweet

[23:45:30]

sphery:

and need to get all the recordings switched to the new schema so they can be supported :)

[23:45:35]

sphery:

where is that slacker

[23:47:36]

** iamlindoro stares **

[23:47:37]

iamlindoro:

;)

[23:48:46]

sphery:

give me 20 minutes and I'll see if I can get it finished

[23:52:37]

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[23:56:17]

bumblebeebat:

Just wondering what people are thinking of the nettops as a frontend. i hsve a one up it is not the fastest. System just died, need to start thinking about a new low power frontend

[23:57:29]

sphery:

bumblebeebat: my manifesto: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/448321#448321

[23:57:54]

sphery:

basically, I think Atom is a bad idea because it's limited and doesn't do low power right

[23:58:12]

bumblebeebat:

that is what i was thinking too

[23:58:27]

sphery:

there are better choices, and you can get a 25W frontend system with enough power to decode and play back about anything you can throw at it

[23:58:45]

bumblebeebat:

it is such a shame as it is quite affordable

[23:59:10]

bumblebeebat:

what system would you recommend (or chipset)

[23:59:13]

sphery:

only down side is they're not "cheap" (where Atom is relatively inexpensive and very cheap)--they're not cheap quality, but they can cost more

[23:59:22]

sphery:

/especially/ if you want small, quiet, and pretty

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