| Tuesday, April 5th, 2011, 00:12 UTC | ||
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| [00:13:05] | zombor: | wagnerrp: are there docs on it? :) |
| [00:13:38] | wagnerrp: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Using_playback_filters |
| [00:14:58] | zombor: | thanks |
| [00:17:36] | wagnerrp: | playback filters are one of mythtv's lesser known, and infrequently used, capabilities |
| [00:18:31] | zombor: | yeah, i just have a SD show on an HD station, so i want to remove the stupid channel bars on either side |
| [00:18:49] | zombor: | in the transcode, cause i dont actually watch anything in mythtv |
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| [01:15:17] | wagnerrp: | sphery: is there any intrinsic reason to use an enum over just const ints defined in a class? |
| [01:15:24] | wagnerrp: | is it more efficient or something? |
| [01:17:13] | Igneous: | I'm getting ready to wipe a server of mine and repurpose it as a mythtv box. Is there any particular linux distribution that is more supported amongst the mythtv community than others? |
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| [01:19:48] | wagnerrp: | im just thinking, the jobqueue has all these enums that are effectively global defines |
| [01:19:50] | wagnerrp: | is there any real reason to keep those around instead of stuffing them into the JobInfo class |
| [01:20:07] | wagnerrp: | so it would be... JobInfo::RUNNING, instead of just JOB_RUNNING |
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| [01:24:48] | markk: | wagnerrp: using enums just makes it a little more flexible/portable and simpler to maintain. |
| [01:24:59] | markk: | imo |
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| [01:30:31] | Wicked: | hello all. have any of your heard alot about players like vlc having issues with playing hdpvr recordings? When i try opening one with vlc it will play fine for a min or two then start getting stuttery. Im fairly sure its not having enough gpu/cpu. i have a nvidia card which does vdpau..and a core2duo. either one on their own should be able to do these recordings. Also when monitoring the system whi |
| [01:30:31] | Wicked: | le playing...neither core gets maxed. |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | markk: i would think it would be the opposite |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | since the values in the enum are not defined for any specific enum |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | Igneous: basically, stay away from RHEL and CentOS 5 |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | RHEL 6 should be fine... for now |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | but a few years down the line, its going to end up outdated just as 5 has |
| [01:34:35] | wagnerrp: | beyond that, pick the linux distribution youre most comfortable with |
| [01:34:42] | wagnerrp: | better to just have to learn mythtv, rather than mythtv AND a new distribution, with new package management, configuration layout, etc... |
| [01:34:42] | wagnerrp: | or if youre new to linux, mythbuntu is generally a good bet |
| [01:34:42] | wagnerrp: | Wicked: what speed is your core2duo? |
| [01:34:47] | wagnerrp: | looking at CPU usage can be misleading, if the thread keeps jumping between different cores |
| [01:34:53] | wagnerrp: | it could still be running 100% CPU, but say 30% on one and 70% on another |
| [01:35:00] | Wicked: | 2.13ghz. |
| [01:35:14] | Wicked: | right on the line of hd worthy |
| [01:35:34] | wagnerrp: | yeah, 2.13GHz is rather low for HDPVR content |
| [01:35:38] | Wicked: | but between vdpau and the cpu...shouldnt it be ok? |
| [01:35:42] | Igneous: | wagnerrp: I'm not really new to linux. I use archlinux as my desktop, and they seem to maintain pretty recent versions of myth.. Just wondering if there'd be any reason to chose something else over arch. |
| [01:36:01] | wagnerrp: | youre looking at 2.5–2.6GHz to manage the full 13.5Mbps content |
| [01:36:16] | wagnerrp: | youll want to go into your recording profiles, and back that down a bit |
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| [01:37:01] | Wicked: | what about vdpau. |
| [01:37:06] | wagnerrp: | if you are actually using VDPAU, then CPU consumption should be <5% |
| [01:37:17] | markk: | wagnerrp: exactly – you don't care what the enum value is. |
| [01:37:41] | Wicked: | also mythfrontend seems to play the video files pretty good. its things outside mythtv like vlc or mplayer and even xbmc that are stuttering |
| [01:37:47] | Wicked: | wagnerrp, yea. |
| [01:38:21] | wagnerrp: | Wicked: then chances are mythtv is using VDPAU, and those other players are not |
| [01:38:37] | wagnerrp: | or perhaps mythtv is operating more efficiently than those other players, thats more markk's area of expertise |
| [01:39:22] | Igneous: | I guess I'll just use arch, It's what I'm most comfortable in, not sure why I bothered asking :/ |
| [01:39:22] | Wicked: | wagnerrp, very well likely. im using mplayer-dailies on ubuntu...and since the last time i updated mplayer....mplayer doesnt really play good. vlc should be using gpu decoding and xbmc def has it enabled |
| [01:40:26] | Wicked: | wagnerrp, thats what im curious about...if myth is handling vdpau differently. xbmc normally plays everything flawless for me...but for some reason it hates my hdpvr recordings. I do belive its due to the ffmpeg xbmc uses. |
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| [02:24:36] | sphery: | wagnerrp: Yeah, I agree with markk. enums make a nice way of grouping together related "magic values". Unfortunately, though, in C/C++, you don't get type safety with them, so they're not as useful as they could be. |
| [02:27:03] | wagnerrp: | but thats the problem i see, effectively, there is no grouping |
| [02:27:12] | wagnerrp: | just a bunch of static defines |
| [02:28:01] | sphery: | well, they're grouped together in the source--in the enum definition |
| [02:28:08] | sphery: | not so much in use |
| [02:28:40] | sphery: | like in programtypes.h for a bunch (most as typedefs, but a couple without) |
| [02:29:01] | wagnerrp: | sphery: does 0.24 have the mythffmpeg, or was that just 0.25? |
| [02:29:22] | sphery: | think it got "backported", but not positive |
| [02:29:34] | sphery: | (I need to update my -fixes... pretty sure mine is pre-mythffmpeg) |
| [02:29:42] | sphery: | heh, guess not |
| [02:29:48] | sphery: | I have it, so it is backported |
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| [03:21:45] | mycoDA: | what IS mythffmpeg? googling was not enlightening |
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| [03:24:25] | sphery: | mycoDA: ffmpeg binary built with the mythtv version of ffmpeg (so it's perfect for testing whether to report a playback bug against mythtv or upstream against ffmpeg/libav) |
| [03:25:02] | mycoDA: | ty sphery |
| [03:25:15] | mycoDA: | is that all it is used for? why does it exist? |
| [03:26:09] | wagnerrp: | its also perfect to have a static version of ffmpeg for use with command line utilities |
| [03:26:34] | wagnerrp: | for instance, nuvexport uses ffmpeg for transcoding |
| [03:26:57] | wagnerrp: | but its often unstable due to the wide range of ffmpeg revisions that may be installed on a user |
| [03:27:05] | wagnerrp: | each with their own quirks for command line formatting |
| [03:27:16] | wagnerrp: | with an internal version of the ffmpeg binary |
| [03:27:23] | wagnerrp: | nuvexport can target that specific version |
| [03:27:34] | wagnerrp: | and know it will always work as expected |
| [03:28:13] | mycoDA: | makes a hell of a lot of sense put that way |
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| [04:02:42] | G3kko: | *thump* |
| [04:02:58] | G3kko: | That's the sound of my head, pounding against my desk. Stupid LIRC. |
| [04:05:34] | G3kko: | Let's say that I'm recompiling my kernel because something is REALLY strange. Can I remove /lib/modules/KERNELREV/ if I'm going to make modules_install immediately following? |
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| [04:12:16] | ** kormoc smacks the mythtv-users list ** | |
| [04:12:31] | kormoc: | Yes, let's set mysql to only use idle io while recording! |
| [04:13:33] | G3kko: | I want to know who actually has I/O problems |
| [04:17:57] | wagnerrp: | people running multiple recordings on the same old slow disk as their database |
| [04:18:45] | G3kko: | I've been running Myth for the last 6 years in one form or another. I don't think I've ever had a recording screwed up due to I/O |
| [04:19:07] | G3kko: | Even with a PVR-500 and an HDHR all plowing away. Maybe I've been lucky. |
| [04:19:38] | kormoc: | I run a hdhr and hdpvr on a single usb drive, and can commflag 6 recordings while recordings 3 HD shows at once |
| [04:19:53] | kormoc: | he must have *really* crappy hardware |
| [04:20:12] | wagnerrp: | and really bad settings |
| [04:20:17] | kormoc: | yeah |
| [04:20:40] | wagnerrp: | or he could be out of memory and swapping hard |
| [04:20:46] | kormoc: | yeah |
| [04:20:49] | wagnerrp: | that causes a lot of trouble for me |
| [04:20:56] | G3kko: | @Wagner BTW, I got the firewire changing channels last night. Worked without a hitch. |
| [04:21:08] | kormoc: | Ram is cheap, so I typically have way more then enough |
| [04:21:15] | wagnerrp: | scheduling usually takes me 4–6 seconds, i had it take over 5 minutes once because of swapping |
| [04:21:16] | G3kko: | Now I just need to figure out what I had done to make /dev/lirc0 completely disappear |
| [04:24:56] | kormoc: | you looked at it weird |
| [04:25:11] | wagnerrp: | it hit in /dev/null |
| [04:25:15] | wagnerrp: | hid |
| [04:25:20] | G3kko: | I cursed the entire lirc subsystem pretty hard. |
| [04:26:20] | wagnerrp: | lirc suffers from the issue of trying to be too capable with too much different hardware, without the developer count to properly support it |
| [04:26:31] | G3kko: | The kernel module lirc_dev refuses to load. So I've wiped all traces of lirc from the box, & am rebuilding 2.6.38 from a clean source tree. I'm walking the .config right now. |
| [04:26:43] | G3kko: | All I want to run is an mceusb. Not exactly esoteric hardware. |
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| [04:27:40] | wagnerrp: | theres also the significant restructuring between 0.8x and 0.9x that trips people up trying to go from one to the other |
| [04:28:00] | G3kko: | Yeah, I noticed. o_0 |
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| [04:29:14] | G3kko: | It's okay. It's been a long while since I spent time really browsing menuconfig. |
| [04:31:12] | ** wagnerrp goes back to the jobqueue ** | |
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| [04:54:49] | mycoDA: | G3kko http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-Remote-Control-Wir . . . 280489517992 LIRC free IR remote |
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| [04:57:53] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: hes looking more for blaster |
| [04:58:07] | mycoDA: | oh, ouch |
| [05:05:02] | wagnerrp: | is there any special you need to do to get subclasses to be able to use the parent class constructor? |
| [05:06:05] | wagnerrp: | or are you required to duplicate each constructor, and call the parent's in the initialization list? |
| [05:15:14] | G3kko: | Sorry, I have up anything resembling C a long time ago. |
| [05:15:31] | G3kko: | And no, I wasn't looking for blasting. I think I had a poisoned /lib/modules |
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| [05:47:40] | mikejf: | Anyone know how well supported the DigitalNow Quad DVB-T Receiver is in Ubuntu? |
| [05:48:20] | [R]: | check the linuxtv webiste |
| [05:48:39] | mikejf: | I am needing a system that streams 14 channels, would I be better off putting 4 of those in 1 machine, or one each in 4 machines? |
| [05:48:44] | mikejf: | [R]: Thanks |
| [05:48:58] | [R]: | depends on how beefy of a computer it is |
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| [05:49:24] | [R]: | and if you plan on doing any commflagging or transcoding |
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| [05:50:07] | mikejf: | Well we don't want to kill the network traffic by streaming the full quality of the DVB stream, so we will probably trrtanscode the video for downscaling the quality |
| [05:50:28] | mikejf: | but other than that the hardware hasn't been acquired yet so that is negotiable |
| [05:51:21] | [R]: | so sounds like you're going to do recordings, so why do you need 4 cards |
| [05:51:38] | mikejf: | 14 different channels |
| [05:51:44] | mikejf: | at the same time |
| [05:52:09] | wagnerrp: | kill what network traffic? each of those 16 tuners is not going to manage more than ~3MBps |
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| [05:52:18] | [R]: | you're going to record 14 things at once? |
| [05:52:23] | wagnerrp: | <50MBps maximum, not too hard for gigabit |
| [05:52:27] | [R]: | i want to mvoe wher eyou live, if you have 14 tgood things going on at once |
| [05:52:48] | mikejf: | There's going to be 600(ish) clients that will be veiwing the media |
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| [05:53:01] | wagnerrp: | so this is a big commercial installation? |
| [05:53:10] | mikejf: | Yep pretty much |
| [05:54:43] | wagnerrp: | note that mythtv has no real concept of access restriction |
| [05:55:27] | wagnerrp: | there is no security in the backend protocol, little protecting access to the mysql database |
| [05:55:29] | wagnerrp: | and each frontend pretty much has free reign to do whatever it wants to the recorded content |
| [05:55:29] | wagnerrp: | how many clients do you expect to be viewing the media simultaneously? |
| [05:55:30] | [R]: | why buy a $100 bottle of wine when a $10 box of wine will get you drunk faster... lol |
| [05:55:31] | wagnerrp: | are you just going to be recording everything, and letting the clients pick at the recordings after the fact? |
| [05:55:33] | mikejf: | Yep, understood, I probably won't use MythTV but this seems to be the best channel to ask about this sort of thing |
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| [05:56:09] | wagnerrp: | this is the best channel to talk about... mythtv |
| [05:56:21] | wagnerrp: | we can advise what problems you might run up against with such a scenario |
| [05:56:28] | wagnerrp: | what you might want to consider altering, or reprogramming |
| [05:56:40] | wagnerrp: | but we cant really advise use of other commercial hardware/software |
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| [05:58:06] | wagnerrp: | for the simple reason that we used mythtv, not some other commercial software |
| [05:58:11] | mikejf: | Yeah, I figured that, but I mainly just needed to know whether the TV card is supported |
| [05:58:24] | wagnerrp: | in that case, #linuxtv or... |
| [05:58:27] | wagnerrp: | !url tuners |
| [05:58:27] | MythLogBot: | tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information |
| [05:59:09] | mikejf: | Ah, thanks, I didn't find that IRC channel, and my googling for the device didn't reveal any linuxTV pages |
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| [06:01:42] | wagnerrp: | 600 clients... this will not end well |
| [06:01:50] | [R]: | haha |
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| [06:02:19] | wagnerrp: | one server simply will not do that kind of throughput |
| [06:02:27] | wagnerrp: | certainly not with mythtv running the show |
| [06:02:47] | wagnerrp: | but even with something purpose built, youre talking bonded 10Gbe cards |
| [06:03:08] | wagnerrp: | and thats still a huge workload |
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| [06:13:00] | earthnative: | multiple round-robin backends and some SAN storage? |
| [06:13:12] | justinh: | I thought a conclusion was already reached yesterday that multicasting DVB tuners was the best way he could go about what he wants to do |
| [06:13:15] | wagnerrp: | cant do round-robin backends |
| [06:13:30] | wagnerrp: | there is the master backend, and everything connects to it |
| [06:13:45] | wagnerrp: | one of the things he would have to spend a decent amount of time reprogramming to make it work |
| [06:13:47] | earthnative: | just shows how much I don't know about mythtv ;) |
| [06:14:31] | wagnerrp: | SAN storage would work, if the frontends were given direct access and didnt have to hit the backends for file transfers |
| [06:14:47] | wagnerrp: | otherwise, you'd probably need a dozen decently spec'd servers to handle the needed throughput |
| [06:14:55] | justinh: | 14 static channels could easily be achieved with multicasting |
| [06:14:58] | wagnerrp: | and you'd have to recompile mythtv with the thread limits cranked up |
| [06:15:22] | wagnerrp: | justinh: sure, but does he want 14 multiplexes, or does he want 600 clients each with independent access |
| [06:15:41] | wagnerrp: | the former just requires some not-cheap-crap network switches |
| [06:15:46] | justinh: | he just said each client has to be able to switch channels independently |
| [06:15:46] | wagnerrp: | the latter requires some SERIOUS hardware |
| [06:16:02] | earthnative: | my impression was 600 independant clients. (I was assuming something like an in-hotel system, with each room having it's own mythTV front end |
| [06:16:25] | wagnerrp: | ah, i was not part of the earlier discussion |
| [06:16:37] | justinh: | for just *watching* livetv, if that's all you ever want to do, mythtv is way over-egging things |
| [06:17:17] | ** wagnerrp goes back to compiling ** | |
| [06:17:31] | justinh: | anyway I'm surprised a 'professional' approached to do this kind of thing doesn't already know this stuff |
| [06:17:44] | wagnerrp: | im going to get this thing compiled cleanly by the end of the night |
| [06:17:56] | wagnerrp: | it will segfault within seconds, but it will make a binary! |
| [06:18:09] | justinh: | sounds like my code ;-) |
| [06:18:44] | wagnerrp: | i dont know what it is... its just harder for me to program with nothing running |
| [06:18:52] | wagnerrp: | i guess its the whole 'no end in sight' concept |
| [06:19:04] | wagnerrp: | i need... something |
| [06:19:13] | justinh: | honestly though.. these 'pros'.. PFFT |
| [06:19:51] | wagnerrp: | i wonder how much of a market there is for those sorts of systems |
| [06:19:56] | justinh: | like those blokes in india, presumably asked to do something or other, see mythtv & then want the moon on a stick – basically for us to do their work for them |
| [06:20:13] | justinh: | wagnerrp: not a big market but it's worth a lot of money & there are already a few players |
| [06:20:39] | justinh: | Phillips HotelTV started going IP a couple of years ago |
| [06:20:44] | wagnerrp: | i mean i wonder if someone could spend a couple months, rewrite large chunks of mythtv for access restrictions, design it for a specific set of hardware, with some nice setup tools |
| [06:21:33] | justinh: | doubtless.. marketing it would be the biggie after that |
| [06:21:40] | wagnerrp: | i think a couple of core devs could have a go at it, and actually come up with a pretty nice solution, assuming it would be a full time job |
| [06:22:04] | justinh: | who's to say that somebody hasn't already done it ;) |
| [06:22:35] | wagnerrp: | but when youre talking the hardware costs, plus markup, and probably double the whole price for the software |
| [06:22:52] | wagnerrp: | one hotel could amount to half a years salary for a couple developers |
| [06:22:52] | justinh: | hotel tv system contracts are worth a *lot* of wonga |
| [06:23:26] | justinh: | I know somebody setting out to make DVB modulators to distribute TV around hotels etc on the cheap |
| [06:23:41] | justinh: | still waiting for my advisory fees actually :D |
| [06:23:59] | wagnerrp: | im really surprised there is no consumer market for digital modulators |
| [06:24:04] | wagnerrp: | considering how common analog ones are |
| [06:24:13] | justinh: | see, existing systems use analogue cabling, and it's a big ask to want to replace the cabling |
| [06:24:40] | justinh: | so use the existing cabling, bung a few muxes on it.. put cheap-ass DVB TVs in the rooms.. badabing |
| [06:25:21] | wagnerrp: | right, i want to do that with my parent's motorhome, but the only one i could find was $1000 |
| [06:25:25] | justinh: | he's got a developer working on making MHEG information pages he can stuff into the streams too |
| [06:25:30] | wagnerrp: | per channel |
| [06:26:02] | justinh: | wagnerrp: AFAIK for ATSC there's only one & it's very high end consumer – prolly more aimed at the installer market |
| [06:26:14] | justinh: | comes in a 1U rack thingy |
| [06:27:21] | justinh: | wagnerrp: I think the problem is that there aren't really any off the shelf modulator chipsets. All the ones I've seen use FPGAs |
| [06:27:40] | wagnerrp: | im thinking of the zeevee |
| [06:28:14] | justinh: | the bloke I know (he works here & it's one of his many sidelines) got an indy developer to make him a bunch of gates where he stuffs a program stream in, and gets I & Q out |
| [06:28:43] | justinh: | wagnerrp: yeah that was the one I was thinking of |
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| [06:30:01] | justinh: | dead simple in principle – you can pick up an mpeg encoder capable of doing HD for $cheap |
| [06:30:10] | wagnerrp: | i cant believe its actually cheaper to use an fpga for everything than just pick up one of these purpose designed SOCs |
| [06:30:27] | wagnerrp: | or is he just using the fpga as a modulator |
| [06:30:33] | justinh: | they're actually pretty hard to get |
| [06:30:42] | justinh: | big $$$, NDA... |
| [06:30:55] | wagnerrp: | because you have to buy in bulk under contract? |
| [06:31:10] | justinh: | usually there's a big upfront fee to get the dev kit |
| [06:31:36] | justinh: | and likely silly minimum order quantities |
| [06:32:30] | justinh: | there are a few small outfits who can give you an FPGA solution – just pay a smallish licence fee for every unit |
| [06:32:51] | [R]: | fpgas make my head hurt |
| [06:32:55] | justinh: | and the other problem when you're DIYing it.. testing |
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| [06:33:07] | justinh: | you can't just look at a DVB constellation on a 'scope |
| [06:33:21] | justinh: | hiring an analyser to do that costs about £1000 a week |
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| [06:34:52] | justinh: | I've been trying to get my hands on some analogue video analysis gear like vectorscopes & waveform monitors |
| [06:35:05] | justinh: | seems very few people are bothering to even look at analogue video anymore |
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| [07:01:45] | wagnerrp: | so 6 files down, three left |
| [07:07:35] | mycoDA: | seems simpler to me just to distribute analog |
| [07:08:04] | justinh: | new gear with analogue tuners inside? Ha |
| [07:08:11] | wagnerrp: | and be limited to 125 channels and 480i (or in their case 576i) |
| [07:08:43] | justinh: | and have you ever seen analogue hotel tv? LOL |
| [07:08:53] | justinh: | fuzzy doesn't even begin to describe it |
| [07:09:02] | wagnerrp: | besides, analog modulators capable of coexisting are not cheap, several hundred each |
| [07:09:16] | wagnerrp: | theyre not the same thing as a cheap $30 radio shack unit |
| [07:09:19] | justinh: | yup +++ |
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| [07:19:20] | mycoDA: | so a few grand verses ---- how much for the IPTV alternative? |
| [07:19:47] | justinh: | depends. how much is a decent switch that can do multicasting properly? |
| [07:21:15] | mycoDA: | no idea – would need 600 ports, plus enough gigE to feed em, plus servers that can feed those, plus iptv clients on the other end |
| [07:21:34] | justinh: | the switch doesn't have to be gigabit on every port |
| [07:21:39] | justinh: | that's the beauty about mutlicasting |
| [07:22:27] | justinh: | bandwidth for unicasting == no. of clients * the bandwidth of the stream |
| [07:22:38] | justinh: | bandwidth for multicasting == the bandwidth of the stream |
| [07:23:14] | wagnerrp: | honestly, when youre talking about that scale, you dont need to do multicasting properly |
| [07:23:14] | wagnerrp: | a QAM multiplex is some 40Mbps and holds 3–4HD channels |
| [07:23:14] | wagnerrp: | you can manage 20 of those on decent dumb switches before you start running into problems |
| [07:23:15] | wagnerrp: | 60–80 HD channels, or 3x that in SD channels |
| [07:23:15] | wagnerrp: | far more than any hotel cable ive ever seen |
| [07:24:02] | justinh: | and even with IP you can stuff it up & down coax quite cheaply, apparently |
| [07:24:11] | justinh: | like in the bad old days :) |
| [07:24:21] | wagnerrp: | ethernet over coax? |
| [07:24:44] | justinh: | yup |
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| [07:25:03] | justinh: | could still be cheaper than ripping out all the cable in a big hotel |
| [07:25:38] | wagnerrp: | well you can buy home DOCSIS modems, but thats going to be fairly expensive |
| [07:25:41] | mycoDA: | ol 10base-2 eh? |
| [07:25:50] | justinh: | mycoDA: nope |
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| [07:26:51] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: same gear as cable ISPs use |
| [07:29:00] | justinh: | about $158 a pair, one site reckons |
| [07:30:17] | mycoDA: | rf distribution rather than point to point makes sense to me |
| [07:30:38] | mycoDA: | but i am an electrotech, not a sowtware/networking dude |
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| [07:32:36] | justinh: | I'm not a software/networking dude either, but if some guy comes in here wanting to stream TV channels to PC clients it's blimmin obvious you can't do unicasting without some *serious* infrastructure |
| [07:33:12] | mycoDA: | if it is to 600 clients i would use rf – it is easier to tap off clients |
| [07:33:13] | justinh: | and because they come & ask in an IRC channel it's fairly obvious they're not aiming to spend much money |
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| [07:33:44] | justinh: | mycoDA: fine, so find yourself running RF cabling to 600 outlets |
| [07:33:50] | mycoDA: | yup |
| [07:34:05] | justinh: | could be quite a lot of upheaval |
| [07:34:17] | mycoDA: | mostly passive apart from a few boosters |
| [07:34:37] | mycoDA: | star/daisy chain combined topology |
| [07:34:40] | justinh: | routing the cable itself is what costs the money |
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| [07:35:06] | justinh: | why bother if you already have an existing network? |
| [07:35:08] | mycoDA: | is going to be the same cost no matter what cabling system |
| [07:35:38] | justinh: | it's all academic anyway. if the guy had a clue he wouldn't have come here in the first place :P |
| [07:36:07] | mycoDA: | true |
| [07:36:09] | justinh: | probably on the back of a stupid PHB's idea too |
| [07:36:12] | mycoDA: | just kinda interesting |
| [07:36:33] | justinh: | I know what we need! TV on every desktop machine! With ponies! |
| [07:38:08] | mycoDA: | aka youtube? |
| [07:38:24] | justinh: | maybe they want *watchable* content |
| [07:40:19] | justinh: | I haven't seen anyone saying they were cutting the TV cable & opting to only watch youtube :P |
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| [07:46:34] | mycoDA: | rofl |
| [07:47:35] | justinh: | sorry, I don't think the future of teevees is user generated content, aka one person has a sweet idea & hundreds of thousands of other people copy it |
| [07:48:27] | mycoDA: | nor do i, tho i also think the studios and big content creator model is due to die |
| [07:49:16] | mycoDA: | our whole notion of copyright comes from the birth of the printing press, allowing printers to make enough money to run and aquire them |
| [07:49:28] | justinh: | you mean you'd like it to die. I'm not getting into this |
| [07:49:40] | mycoDA: | not that i would like it to |
| [07:49:48] | mycoDA: | i think it cant survive |
| [07:50:37] | justinh: | I think it probably can, and will. And we, the public at largem will allow it |
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| [07:50:57] | mycoDA: | i dont think it is a viable model in a world where the public are paying for the distrubution system separately |
| [07:50:58] | justinh: | oh wait – we already are |
| [07:51:22] | mycoDA: | the model is already shifting |
| [07:51:40] | justinh: | people said IPTV would free up the way people view TV |
| [07:52:06] | mycoDA: | dont forget p2p distribution |
| [07:52:09] | justinh: | that was potentially true, but in practise all that happened was companies used IP to deliver the stuff. Same propriatary junk needed to watch it |
| [07:52:17] | justinh: | no, forget p2p distribution |
| [07:52:21] | mycoDA: | why? |
| [07:52:34] | justinh: | pirate to pirate? lol |
| [07:52:35] | mycoDA: | is the model that existed BEFORE the printing press |
| [07:52:55] | justinh: | who is going to PAY to MAKE the gripping, blockbusting series? |
| [07:53:07] | justinh: | somebody has to invest first |
| [07:53:16] | justinh: | they expect their money back, at the very least |
| [07:53:49] | mycoDA: | there are other ways to make money you know – merchandising is a biggie |
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| [07:54:12] | mycoDA: | people will PAY if they like something, to have box sets and tshirts and all sorts o crap of it |
| [07:54:16] | justinh: | we the consumers have the power to control how this goes, but we're NOT |
| [07:54:29] | justinh: | we're lapping it all up |
| [07:55:01] | wagnerrp: | the problem with copyright is that the time completely contradicts the market |
| [07:55:10] | mycoDA: | the popularity of 'illegal' downloading, and the success of some groups that have embraces the new media free content ethos says change, tho slow, is happening |
| [07:55:13] | wagnerrp: | were up over 100 years now for public domain in the US? |
| [07:55:21] | justinh: | yup ^^^ |
| [07:55:37] | wagnerrp: | a movie is considered a flop if it doesnt make back the budget in the first run theaters |
| [07:55:37] | mycoDA: | thankfully the rest of the world doesnt have mickey mouse laws lol |
| [07:55:38] | justinh: | mycoDA: quality, compelling content costs MONEY to produce |
| [07:55:44] | wagnerrp: | which is going to be all of about six months |
| [07:55:56] | mycoDA: | i am aware of this justinh |
| [07:56:05] | mycoDA: | it also costs MUCH more to distribute |
| [07:56:09] | wagnerrp: | beyond that, the vast majority of DVD sales are going to occur within four years |
| [07:56:28] | mycoDA: | and there is no reason in my mind that stars should be making millions |
| [07:56:41] | justinh: | frickin communist |
| [07:56:56] | justinh: | if you were the star you wouldn't be complaining :D |
| [07:56:58] | wagnerrp: | the only reason to maintain copyright beyond that is so that they can sell you the VHS, and then the laserdisk, and then the DVD, and then the HDDVD, and then the Bluray, and then they can make all sorts of directors cuts, and rereleases |
| [07:57:02] | mycoDA: | roflmao – the last refuge of the incompetant right winger |
| [07:57:32] | mycoDA: | i would hope i wouldnt be metallica tho justinh |
| [07:57:34] | justinh: | the whole problem comes down to greed |
| [07:57:37] | mycoDA: | yup |
| [07:57:46] | mycoDA: | and the counterbalance can be greed |
| [07:57:48] | justinh: | that's the whole nub right there |
| [07:58:02] | mycoDA: | our greed outweighing theirs |
| [07:58:15] | justinh: | hell, greedy filesharers who just download cos stuff is there hasn't done anybody any favours either |
| [07:58:24] | mycoDA: | and the merchandising model CAN be the primary funding model |
| [07:58:29] | justinh: | even if you could argue the 'try before they buy' lot are being victimised |
| [07:58:31] | mycoDA: | havent they justinh? |
| [07:58:54] | justinh: | no, they haven't |
| [07:59:04] | mycoDA: | lol |
| [07:59:15] | justinh: | anyway I said I wasn't getting into this.. grrr |
| [07:59:37] | justinh: | it's always a circular argument. pole vs pole |
| [08:00:20] | mycoDA: | i am actually in te middle – i think there will be money to made, and always has been, and that merchandising has already proven this |
| [08:00:23] | wagnerrp: | and theyre going to keep coming up with new mediums every couple years because they want that cash infusion of all those resales |
| [08:00:24] | wagnerrp: | and then you get stuff like disney where they intentionally limited market availability, so every couple years they can 'open up the valut for the first time in a quarter of two decades' |
| [08:00:45] | mycoDA: | hanging on to distribution coyrights has already proven costly and futile, and costs billions |
| [08:01:16] | mycoDA: | give up, let people cop, charge for boxsets and memorabilia and the like |
| [08:01:17] | wagnerrp: | mycoDA: if you look at bands, they only make money through concerts and merchendising |
| [08:01:29] | mycoDA: | i know – have done a lot of work in LX |
| [08:01:30] | justinh: | IMHO there's soon going to be a 'revolution' where every media playing outlet will be network connected – and with that will come the ability to license every single access. they want to do that, and they *will* do that if they can |
| [08:01:32] | wagnerrp: | nearly all of the record sales proceeds gets funneled into the studio |
| [08:01:42] | mycoDA: | yup |
| [08:02:13] | mycoDA: | is a proven model for the actual content PRODUCERS to make money |
| [08:02:32] | mycoDA: | the copyright system atm is just making marketing and distribution houses money |
| [08:02:44] | justinh: | of course! |
| [08:02:53] | justinh: | they paid a lot of money to get it that way |
| [08:02:56] | wagnerrp: | no, its a proven model for the content distributors to make money, the producers dont get crap |
| [08:03:04] | justinh: | and they continue to pay a lot of money to keep it that way |
| [08:03:24] | mycoDA: | was talking about merchandising and performance wagnerrp |
| [08:03:34] | mycoDA: | the only way content creators make money |
| [08:03:53] | mycoDA: | they are pointless tho justinh – they provide no useful function |
| [08:03:56] | justinh: | til the 'record companies' (eg) take on live events & merchandising |
| [08:04:06] | justinh: | mycoDA: they MAKE MONEY |
| [08:04:16] | justinh: | in a greedy society that means a great deal |
| [08:04:16] | mycoDA: | no, they dont |
| [08:04:31] | mycoDA: | they shuffle it, and take it from others effectively |
| [08:04:45] | mycoDA: | the content producers are the ones MAKING the money |
| [08:04:46] | justinh: | if there was little money to be made from it, why bother? |
| [08:05:52] | mycoDA: | an increasing number of people know that, and know they can get their media other ways, and know they can buy merch to contribute to the artists better |
| [08:05:58] | justinh: | all it'd take for the routes for artists to make 'real money' from merchandising etc would be for contracting to change |
| [08:06:38] | mycoDA: | yup – so yet another proof the studios dont need copyright to make money |
| [08:07:01] | justinh: | but it's a layer of protection so why give it up in a hurry? |
| [08:07:12] | justinh: | sew it up, sew it up nice & tight |
| [08:07:43] | mycoDA: | because atm it is close to losing money, and really hurting their reputations |
| [08:07:55] | mycoDA: | drm and enforcement is costing BILLIONS |
| [08:08:10] | justinh: | most people don't give a rat's ass |
| [08:08:39] | justinh: | if they did, and actually opted out instead of lapping it all up, we wouldn't even *have* DRM now |
| [08:08:52] | mycoDA: | and suing single mums and teenagers for amounts the size of most countries gdp is hurting their rep in a big way |
| [08:09:38] | justinh: | 1. people are stupid. 2. exploit them. 3. profit |
| [08:10:36] | justinh: | do many people question the ethics of how they get their food & clothing? |
| [08:13:46] | wagnerrp: | i get mine through cheap child labor from a sweatshop! |
| [08:13:55] | justinh: | me too :-) |
| [08:14:21] | justinh: | pays to, unless you want to look like one of those new-age hippy type people :P |
| [08:14:37] | justinh: | "ethically farmed tofu shirt" |
| [08:15:13] | wagnerrp: | i like the high thread count those tiny child hands can produce |
| [08:15:29] | mycoDA (mycoDA!~mycoDA@unaffiliated/mycosys) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [08:15:45] | justinh: | if we weren't a competitive, exploitative species, we'd never have evolved to the level we're at today |
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| [08:18:19] | mycoDA: | sorry – bsod |
| [08:18:48] | mycoDA is now known as mycosys | |
| [08:19:04] | wagnerrp: | bsod? your power supply crapped out? |
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| [08:21:25] | mycosys: | nah – not sure what it is – laptop |
| [08:22:37] | mycosys: | couple of years old, original install of xp, had a hard life. hopefully putting w7 on it now the uni is going that way |
| [08:22:57] | mycosys: | will fix it |
| [08:24:22] | mycosys: | have linux on it too – but i need acrobad pro and dragon naturally speaking etc so is easier just to use doze |
| [08:24:57] | justinh: | heh I didn't think anybody actually bothered with that voice recognition stuff |
| [08:26:03] | wagnerrp: | must have had another one... |
| [08:26:09] | justinh: | ROFL.. people are actually selling motherboards now claiming the caps won't explode? |
| [08:26:40] | justinh: | 10 years ultra long lifetime.. NO explosion! |
| [08:29:06] | wagnerrp: | can the solid state caps explode? |
| [08:29:20] | wagnerrp: | i guess if you overheat them, theres no reason something bad wouldnt happen |
| [08:30:00] | justinh: | it'd be fair to say that solid electrolyte caps have less chance of expanding & going bad |
| [08:30:13] | justinh: | but not fair to say they're guaranteed not to explode, ever |
| [08:30:57] | justinh: | hrm. lowest wattage PSU Aria.co.uk are selling is '400W' |
| [08:31:08] | wagnerrp: | well i failed... stuck on some error that frankly i cant figure out why its happening |
| [08:31:15] | wagnerrp: | last error on the file, and then ive got one more file left |
| [08:32:32] | justinh: | jees, I just want a PSU for a machine with a GTX430, quad core CPU... maybe a couple of HDDs.. that can't be any more than 250W, peak.. shirley |
| [08:34:10] | mycosys: | justinh a LOT of diabled people do |
| [08:34:46] | justinh: | so it's reliable/useful enough for that? I always thought it was still a frivolous gimmick |
| [08:34:59] | mycosys: | dont forget that you need to oveerate to allow for capacitor aging generally |
| [08:35:08] | mycosys: | is damn good these days |
| [08:35:35] | justinh: | mycosys: yeah but I'm still seeing '105 deg C' caps bulging & failing on motherboards here |
| [08:35:47] | wagnerrp: | are they just plastic based? |
| [08:35:48] | wagnerrp: | what do they use as the electrolyte? |
| [08:35:53] | wagnerrp: | more like 100W peak, besides the startup surge |
| [08:35:53] | wagnerrp: | you might hit 125W or so with both the CPU and graphics loaded |
| [08:35:53] | wagnerrp: | aaaaaagghhh |
| [08:35:54] | mycosys: | uhuh, but that is not cap aging |
| [08:36:04] | wagnerrp: | i never put an open brace after an if statement |
| [08:36:14] | wagnerrp: | so when i put a closing brace, it closed out of the whole method |
| [08:36:33] | justinh: | wagnerrp: yay! Anyway, regarding the PSU.. I wasn't *that* far out lol |
| [08:36:57] | mycosys: | should be able to use a picopsu if u REALLY wanted lol |
| [08:37:17] | justinh: | I doubt even an '80+' PSU is very efficient at way under half load |
| [08:37:39] | mycosys: | they have to be 80+ from 20% up |
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| [08:38:04] | mycosys: | yay 4 netsplit |
| [08:38:14] | justinh: | ok then.. so er.. Corair.. avoid? |
| [08:38:28] | mycosys: | corsair? they sell awesome psus |
| [08:38:35] | mycosys: | dont make any tho |
| [08:38:41] | mycosys: | mostly sell CWT units |
| [08:38:46] | mycosys: | some seasonic |
| [08:39:28] | justinh: | here we go then.. GTX430, cheapest quad core athlon (3Ghz), '430W' PSU, case... under £250 :-) |
| [08:39:42] | mycosys: | big issue with 80+ is they test at room temp – should be 50deg |
| [08:40:10] | mycosys: | prolly wanna go quiter than what that sounds tho |
| [08:41:18] | justinh: | anybody running machines at 50 deg C is looking for trouble :) |
| [08:41:49] | mycosys: | is a pretty normal internal temp actually |
| [08:41:59] | mycosys: | 40–50 |
| [08:42:19] | justinh: | you want reliability, you pays through the nose fer it |
| [08:42:26] | justinh: | everything is done to cost |
| [08:42:52] | mycosys: | not really – antec neopower was rated at 50deg, for continuous power |
| [08:42:58] | mycosys: | a lot o good psus are |
| [08:43:06] | mycosys: | corsair are |
| [08:43:08] | justinh: | well, I think I'll order this little lot. get an 'ex test' 1TB HDD or so |
| [08:43:39] | mycosys: | they refused an 80+ gold rating on a psu cos it wouldnt do gold performance to 50c |
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| [08:44:30] | justinh: | bum. I forgot RAM. lol |
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| [08:44:47] | mycosys: | why a quad? |
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| [08:44:56] | Mode for #mythtv-users by holmes.freenode.net : +vv xris wagnerrp | |
| [08:45:10] | mycosys: | why not an i3 that is a bit more efficient? |
| [08:45:11] | justinh: | cos I'll be editing video on the thing |
| [08:46:52] | justinh: | my laptop is frickin useless, only a Core Duo 1.6Ghz thingy |
| [08:47:10] | justinh: | can't even play AVCHD from my camcorder let alone edit |
| [08:47:28] | mycosys: | fair one |
| [08:47:39] | mycosys: | prolly dont want athlon2 then |
| [08:47:44] | justinh: | hell even transcoding to mpeg2, doing the edit then replacing the file with the original is cumbersome |
| [08:47:47] | justinh: | why so? |
| [08:47:56] | mycosys: | no level 3 cache |
| [08:48:21] | justinh: | makes no sense to me either way |
| [08:48:33] | justinh: | I just want as fast as possible, for as little money as possible |
| [08:48:39] | mycosys: | cache makes a decent doff top transcode from what i recall |
| [08:48:48] | mycosys: | so phenom 2 or i5 quad |
| [08:49:31] | wagnerrp: | you think that L3 makes that much difference? |
| [08:49:51] | justinh: | if it would only cut 5 minutes off an hour of rendering it's not worth it |
| [08:49:51] | mycosys: | benchmarks seem to say it does – from memory |
| [08:50:02] | ** wagnerrp goes to the tomshardware charts ** | |
| [08:50:23] | justinh: | besides, Sony Vegas can use CUDA for rendering |
| [08:50:37] | justinh: | what I really need the new system for is to be actually usable to do the edit |
| [08:50:47] | wagnerrp: | justinh: in that case, you want something considerably better than a GT430 |
| [08:51:05] | justinh: | I don't really care if rendering isn't instant |
| [08:51:12] | justinh: | it just has to be usable on the timeline |
| [08:51:32] | mycosys: | phenom2 945 is $170ish even here, not that much more than athlon2 645 |
| [08:51:35] | justinh: | i.e. be nice to be able to seek within files, test edits out & stuff without it juddering to 1fps |
| [08:52:49] | justinh: | phenom X4 840 is only about £5 dearer than the cheapest Athlon II I had on my list |
| [08:53:01] | wagnerrp: | mycosys: according to toms hardware, the L3 really only gives you a boost on gaming and compression |
| [08:53:12] | wagnerrp: | (and the compression boost is considerable) |
| [08:53:23] | justinh: | for an extra fiver, it's a done deal |
| [08:53:24] | mycosys: | thougth media encode was another |
| [08:53:25] | wagnerrp: | that would be... lossless compression, rar, lzma, zip |
| [08:53:39] | wagnerrp: | nah, nothing significant in video encoding |
| [08:54:13] | wagnerrp: | http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cp . . . rod[4446]=on |
| [08:54:29] | justinh: | oh bugger. I was wrong there. it wasn't an X4 for an extra fiver |
| [08:54:30] | justinh: | sack it |
| [08:54:40] | wagnerrp: | left side is the 3GHz Phenom II X4 |
| [08:55:39] | justinh: | bottom line is, it has to be fast enough to decode AVCHD on the timeline, maybe *2 |
| [08:55:45] | mycosys: | AMD Phenom II X4 945 (Deneb 4c) |
| [08:55:46] | mycosys: | 3 GHz, DDR3–1333, 2 MB L2, 6 MB L3 101 See comparable product deals AMD Athlon II X4 645 (Propus 4c) |
| [08:55:46] | mycosys: | 3.1 GHz, DDR3–1333, 2 MB L2 101 |
| [08:56:07] | justinh: | I think 4 cores of 3.3Ghz should be able to cope with that. something wrong if it isn't |
| [08:56:08] | mycosys: | 3.1 ghz without l3, matches 3ghz with – not worth it |
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| [08:56:36] | justinh: | and I frankly don't care if a half hour render finishes 5 minutes quicker |
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| [08:57:28] | mycosys: | hate it when my memory fails me that badly :S |
| [08:57:46] | justinh: | I sometimes feel churlish for not caring about CPU specs |
| [08:58:06] | justinh: | I've always had a tendency to buy the cheapest |
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| [08:58:30] | justinh: | which has always ended up meaning that my new box is lightyears ahead of my last one :) |
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| [09:01:11] | justinh: | I've never been willing to splurge the extra £200 to get an extra 2% performance |
| [09:01:59] | wagnerrp: | i did once |
| [09:02:38] | wagnerrp: | spent $350 to get the slowest dual core AMD, when much higher clocked single cores were in the mid $100 range |
| [09:02:40] | justinh: | I still find the idea of having multiple video cards hilarious |
| [09:02:44] | wagnerrp: | never regretted it |
| [09:03:40] | justinh: | gah. Aria now say they need 2 forms of ID for their counter collection servuce |
| [09:03:43] | justinh: | *service |
| [09:03:50] | wagnerrp: | ive been running dual video cards for about six years now |
| [09:04:07] | justinh: | for multiple desktops, sure |
| [09:04:15] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [09:04:28] | justinh: | but for gaming.. it's just something I can't fathom |
| [09:04:54] | wagnerrp: | although i have to admit, six years ago that extra desktop on a PCI video card was a bit flakey |
| [09:05:06] | justinh: | one guy here is always upgrading to the greatest cards.. 2x £600 GPUs... |
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| [09:06:23] | wagnerrp: | what for? unless hes got three or more monitors to push with that, theres no games currently available to even use that kind of power on |
| [09:06:57] | justinh: | he's a specs whore I think ;) |
| [09:10:29] | wagnerrp: | ok, it built, loaded with warnings, and only 2/3 written, but its a start |
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| [12:39:28] | justinh: | wowser. deleted an svn checkout dir of 0.23 & saved over 3GB |
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| [12:47:24] | justinh: | in other news, mythtvtalk.com sent me an automated 'friendly reminder' to donate. I think that kind of activity should seal its fate |
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| [14:21:32] | ** iamlindoro loves it when people pass off their random (and silly) conclusions about hardware as absolute fact ** | |
| [14:21:54] | iamlindoro: | This re: "The HDHR is one of the poorest tuners out there" on the list |
| [14:23:51] | justinh: | speculation.. nobody has carried out absolute sensitivity measurements :) |
| [14:24:02] | justinh: | oo, now that'd be an interesting thing to do |
| [14:24:57] | mycoDA: | wouldnt be too hard either |
| [14:25:03] | mycoDA: | selectivity would be harder |
| [14:26:01] | justinh: | that's probably more or less much of a muchness these days |
| [14:26:10] | GreyFoxx: | http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=224 = source |
| [14:26:13] | GreyFoxx: | oops |
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| [14:26:25] | mycoDA: | not at all justinh – very different things |
| [14:26:30] | iamlindoro: | anecdotally, many people have reported *much* better results with the HDHR than internal tuners, with RF isolation being a likely factor in it performing better |
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| [14:26:50] | justinh: | mycoDA: basically, RF frontend into a DSP |
| [14:27:12] | mycoDA: | selectivity and sensitivity are still very different things |
| [14:27:19] | justinh: | duh I know that |
| [14:27:34] | justinh: | I *meant* that selectivity will likely be very similar between products |
| [14:27:36] | mycoDA: | and very different to process |
| [14:27:43] | mycoDA: | i wouldnt think so |
| [14:28:19] | mycoDA: | how tightly you tune will make a huge difference, and do opposite things to either |
| [14:28:20] | justinh: | but sensitivity would be a darn fine place to start |
| [14:28:36] | mycoDA: | selectivity is probably more important |
| [14:28:47] | mycoDA: | sensitivity is easy to fix |
| [14:29:24] | justinh: | to a point, sure |
| [14:29:48] | justinh: | point being, there shouldn't be any need to 'fix' anything. if we end up with a list of tuners people should avoid... :D |
| [14:30:10] | justinh: | and we might finally be able to shed some light on the 'best' tuner question we see so much of |
| [14:30:24] | justinh: | because as far as consumers are concerned they're all just black boxes |
| [14:31:11] | mycoDA: | actually knowing which have good sensitivity and which selectivity could be handy |
| [14:31:22] | mycoDA: | close to a transmitter you want selectivity |
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| [14:31:26] | justinh: | ever wonder why PC tuner cards didn't produce as good a picture as your VCR & TV? Because the analogue tuners used on capture cards were absolute crud, as a rule |
| [14:31:35] | mycoDA: | a long way away you are stuck with amps so the same |
| [14:31:48] | mycoDA: | i knew that lol |
| [14:31:56] | justinh: | IMHO selectivity has less of a bearing with digital signals |
| [14:32:08] | mycoDA: | most would say more |
| [14:32:18] | justinh: | why? |
| [14:32:34] | mycoDA: | it doesnt mind a small signal, but noise tends to stuff it up |
| [14:33:01] | mycoDA: | analog was the opposite, with a good signal it didnt give a rats about noise |
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| [14:36:33] | mycoDA: | a lot of tuners have fine sensitivity but very poor selectivity – they work ok on their own but put em in a team with other tuners and possibly amp and they go to crap |
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| [16:06:59] | sphery: | wagnerrp: Out of curiosity, are you use MythCommandLineParser for your new binary? Would be great if you could (would be one less program for me to fix later). |
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| [16:09:00] | sphery: | btw, your new job scheduler is sounding better and better the more I hear about it :) |
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| [16:50:08] | sunkan: | With the latest fixes/0.24 updates I get warnings on my frontends about the ALSA HW buffer size. Before it warned about too low buffer and then I raised it to 128 (as suggested in the message). |
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| [16:51:31] | sunkan: | Now it keeps suggesting higher and higher value if I keep raising the buffer. And when looking at this output 'ALSA: Requested 500000us got 341333 buffer time' the number 341333 never changes when raising the prealloc buffer. |
| [16:52:27] | sunkan: | Is my HW different than others since or what can be the reason for not getting the full requested buffer time? |
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| [16:57:09] | wagnerrp: | sphery: right now, im just using the existing command line input |
| [16:57:36] | sphery: | existing? |
| [16:57:50] | sphery: | meaning you haven't changed the code from whatever app you used as a starting point? |
| [16:57:52] | wagnerrp: | whatever is currently used by mythjobqueue |
| [16:57:54] | sphery: | (like mythbackend) |
| [16:57:56] | sphery: | ahh, ok |
| [16:58:07] | wagnerrp: | (we did already have one of those) |
| [16:58:12] | sphery: | mythjobqueue will be the first one I convert to mythcommandlineparser |
| [16:58:19] | sphery: | right after mythtvd |
| [16:58:33] | sphery: | if I could get my dev box working properly, I could work on that :) |
| [16:59:11] | sphery: | (still having SATA errors... tried switching SATA ports on the mobo from SATA1 to SATA4 and haven't seen any issues, since, but still not sure if it was related or just hasn't happened, again, yet) |
| [16:59:12] | skd5aner: | jya: ^ sunkan's audio buffer issues |
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| [17:10:36] | sphery: | heh, maybe the |
| [17:10:54] | sphery: | "SeaTools has determined that an important firmware update for your drive may be required" is related |
| [17:11:05] | sphery: | this being the refurb they sent me |
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| [18:54:19] | Bop: | hello |
| [18:54:37] | Bop: | when i boot,mythtv doesnt automatic start working |
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| [18:56:23] | Bop: | mythtv is using all inputs but there are no active recordings ? |
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| [18:56:28] | Bop: | its the message |
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| [19:03:20] | Bop: | now it segmentation faults :S |
| [19:03:24] | Bop: | HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp |
| [19:03:48] | sphery: | Bop: sounds like you're starting mythbackend before your system has initialized the capture cards |
| [19:03:54] | sphery: | i.e. upstart fail |
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| [19:05:09] | Bop: | hmm |
| [19:06:24] | Bop: | ok gonna check |
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| [19:53:14] | Wicked: | does anyone know if the hdpvr uses b frames as references? im trying to archive a recording with avidemux and its saying that it could lead to stuttering or crashing...or it can use a seperate method that may be less accurate |
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| [20:03:42] | skd5aner: | am I the only one who thinks URL shortners are evil and never trusts clicking on them? |
| [20:04:27] | wagnerrp: | no, we all do |
| [20:04:39] | wagnerrp: | except for the twitards |
| [20:05:22] | wagnerrp: | twitiots? |
| [20:05:31] | skd5aner: | yea, the second one |
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| [20:20:56] | justinh: | any half decent client shows you where it's going before it takes you there |
| [20:21:12] | sphery: | where client = server, right? |
| [20:21:29] | sphery: | meaning you won't know what the destination is until after you've clicked on it in the browser |
| [20:21:44] | sphery: | (ok, the browser will show that it's a shortened URI, but won't show you where it goes) |
| [20:21:56] | justinh: | tweetdeck does :) |
| [20:22:09] | sphery: | I actually find it evil that github is using bit.ly shortened URIs for commits |
| [20:22:11] | skd5aner: | that's assuming you are using twitter |
| [20:22:15] | wagnerrp: | yes, for twitter |
| [20:22:20] | sphery: | ah, I see... for twitter it could |
| [20:22:25] | wagnerrp: | outside of twitter, there are no such utilities |
| [20:22:26] | skd5aner: | it seems like url shortners are pretter pervasive anymore |
| [20:22:30] | wagnerrp: | so whats the point? |
| [20:22:30] | sphery: | assuming the mapping is stored somewhere else |
| [20:22:44] | sphery: | (otherwise the client would have to connect to find out) |
| [20:22:53] | wagnerrp: | aside from twitter and sms, what else has such a character limit? |
| [20:23:06] | sphery: | guess it could do a request, get the redirect, then confirm |
| [20:23:15] | skd5aner: | I suppose firefox could get some kind of plugin maybe that would go and see where the redirect takes you |
| [20:23:23] | justinh: | be better if places with fugly URIs would do something about it instead :) |
| [20:23:35] | justinh: | like those 40 million character Amazon links etc.. eew |
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| [20:23:47] | wagnerrp: | but then your script would need to know what links are going to produce redirects |
| [20:23:47] | skd5aner: | how many times a day do you ahve to type *any* URI |
| [20:23:54] | sphery: | (btw, the github bit.ly shortened URIs are in #mythtv-commits) |
| [20:23:55] | skd5aner: | I click on 95% of links |
| [20:24:32] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: yea, the plugin/script would just have to know the major URL redirecting domains |
| [20:24:35] | skd5aner: | goo.gl, etc |
| [20:24:53] | wagnerrp: | i dont understand why github cant at least host their own shortened urls |
| [20:25:22] | Wicked: | hmm...avidemux doesnt seem to like these hdpvr recordings to much hehe |
| [20:26:17] | skd5aner: | I ran a forum that basically did that... had a "friendly URL" feature would just use mod-rewrite to make a URL not excesively long and also make it search engine friendly |
| [20:26:26] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah... and guarantee that it never has a shortened URI that refers off site |
| [20:26:52] | sphery: | Wicked: does avidemux even do MPEG-4 AVC? |
| [20:26:58] | wagnerrp: | sphery: well i would say the links the github bot produces are fairly safe |
| [20:26:58] | sphery: | thought it was an MPEG-2 thing |
| [20:27:03] | Wicked: | im not sure. |
| [20:27:06] | wagnerrp: | so long as those hashes never get recycled |
| [20:27:18] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, assuming that the github bot is the github bot |
| [20:27:20] | Wicked: | it loads the file...but it gets out of sync when i try to flag commercials |
| [20:27:23] | wagnerrp: | it just seems, dirty |
| [20:27:42] | sphery: | and not a clever (or not so clever--but catching me when I"m not paying attention) disguise |
| [20:28:02] | Wicked: | im just looking for a way to archive a few recordings using something with a gui |
| [20:28:18] | sphery: | still, considering they only show, what, 50chars of the commit message, they have plenty of room for a full commit URI |
| [20:28:32] | sphery: | and if they're really concerned about flooding the channel, they should fix the real problem |
| [20:28:43] | sphery: | the constant join/left messages for the bot |
| [20:28:53] | wagnerrp: | heh |
| [20:31:55] | keith4: | should I be concerned about periodic clusters of "xxxx_xxxxxxxxxxxxx.mpg should be local, but it can not be found." errors? |
| [20:32:22] | keith4: | it seems to happen immediately when a recording is starting, but eventually things settle down and the recording proceeds normally, as far as I can tell |
| [20:32:57] | keith4: | e.g., http://pastebin.com/1TVU1nFw |
| [20:34:39] | sphery: | think that's just the preview generator getting kicked off too early |
| [20:34:44] | sphery: | then gets kicked off later |
| [20:34:54] | sphery: | will be easier to tell when the logging gets redone |
| [20:35:01] | justinh: | still wish I could disable the preview gen |
| [20:35:32] | sphery: | why? it doesn't hurt to have it, and it's there when you want/need it |
| [20:35:38] | sphery: | (or when mythfrontend or mythweb does) |
| [20:35:41] | justinh: | LOL at all that new 'Commodore' junk though |
| [20:35:51] | keith4: | sphery: k, thanks. i won't worry about it |
| [20:36:08] | justinh: | sphery: aye maybe hurts less than it used to |
| [20:36:28] | sphery: | yeah, now that mythpreviewgen is a separate process, it's not even a problem if it dies |
| [20:36:45] | sphery: | only real problems come about from H.264 recordings that cause mythpreviewgen to spin forever |
| [20:37:08] | sphery: | (which you may actually see... but until someone fixes mythpreviewgen, that's what cron and killall are for :) |
| [20:37:31] | justinh: | well I say 'maybe' – I'm still on 0.23 ;-) |
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| [20:42:03] | danbell: | can anyone direct me to a channel that's more generally about video editing? |
| [20:42:11] | danbell: | sorry, I'm that guy |
| [20:45:18] | justinh: | #cinelerra ? |
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| [20:50:32] | iamlindoro: | Concluding Chop Expert, from Tangerine |
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| [20:56:47] | wagnerrp: | justinh: there it is... third mention this week |
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| [21:06:12] | iamlindoro: | This Mark Lord guy has gone from "absolutely new on the list" to "acting like he owns the place and everyone should listen" in a matter of days |
| [21:06:15] | jarle (jarle!~jarle@70.84-234-133.customer.lyse.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [21:06:17] | iamlindoro: | Dustybin syndrome |
| [21:06:31] | Metoer (Metoer!metoer@77.68.145.221) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [21:07:09] | iamlindoro: | And telling Devin that he's the one who figured out $TunerIdiosyncracy for a driver that Devin wrote is a little silly |
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| [21:08:48] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: you around? |
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| [21:14:28] | Beirdo: | iamlindoro: he did write the original IDE driver for Linux and hdparm, by the looks of it |
| [21:14:43] | Beirdo: | still a nuisance :) |
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| [21:15:43] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v sphery | |
| [21:16:04] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: were that the case, being a kernel developer, he should understand that a udev solution is vastly better than some gigantic bash script |
| [21:16:25] | Beirdo: | I'm sure that not all kernel devs like udev :0 |
| [21:16:33] | Beirdo: | but yeah, you'd think so |
| [21:16:50] | Beirdo: | go man hdparm sometime. |
| [21:16:52] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [21:17:20] | natanojl (natanojl!~jonatan@c83-252-237-63.bredband.comhem.se) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| [21:17:39] | sphery: | wagnerrp: Think of it like this... All code has bugs. If you have a huge program, a bug would be a smaller percentage of buggy code than if you have a tiny program. |
| [21:18:44] | jya: | sunkan: about your buffer issue, but does it play fine? that's all that matter |
| [21:19:06] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, what's up? |
| [21:21:00] | Wicked: | ok...if i want to be able to edit out commercials and stuff from my hdpvr recordings...whats my best bet? trasncode to something else then do the editing? |
| [21:21:11] | Wicked: | everything im trying does not work with these recordings :| |
| [21:22:51] | wagnerrp: | this is three times now people have been discussing softcams on the mailing list |
| [21:23:31] | sphery: | wagnerrp: we need to crack down hard on soft cams |
| [21:23:42] | sphery: | :) |
| [21:23:50] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: if i issue a warning, would you be willing to start kicking users? |
| [21:23:52] | Beirdo: | which one this time? |
| [21:23:53] | sphery: | really wish people could find somewhere else to discuss that, though |
| [21:23:58] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, sure |
| [21:24:09] | skd5aner: | #softcam |
| [21:24:37] | Beirdo: | Ah yes. Sky HD in Switzerland |
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| [21:25:33] | sphery: | wagnerrp: wow, and this time it was a user who asked them to go elsewhere |
| [21:25:41] | ** Beirdo points kormoc to Josu Lazkano ** | |
| [21:25:58] | skd5aner: | several users do self-police a lot |
| [21:26:15] | Beirdo: | yup, some of them actually get it. |
| [21:26:48] | sphery: | yeah, just nice to see |
| [21:27:15] | skd5aner: | I mean – you got to realize, lots of people hear or learn about this stuff, and have never been a part of the community, and several of them probably play ignorant on the legal side of some of these things – and every now and then people use the "well it's not illegal here" mentality too – it's just never going to go away |
| [21:27:23] | sphery: | and helps convince people it's not just mean devs being mean |
| [21:27:52] | skd5aner: | heh – the problem is, the "mean devs" constantly are reading and replying to the lists on a frequent basis ;) |
| [21:28:23] | skd5aner: | read all the stuff that's a few days old, and most of the bad stuff will probably fall off or be self-policed by users I'd bet |
| [21:28:27] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: its got nothing to do with whether their specific use is illegal or not in their specific territory |
| [21:28:41] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: I know that (and I know the rules) – but they don't |
| [21:29:01] | wagnerrp: | the problem is that the same software that allows them to access their legally subscribed content would just as easily allow them to access that which they had not subscribed to |
| [21:29:26] | wagnerrp: | and regardless of their personal intentions, the vast majority of users of such software use it for the latter purpose |
| [21:29:47] | skd5aner: | meanwhile – it's a pain in the ass to access the content I /am/ legally subscribed too – makes total sense |
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| [21:30:08] | Beirdo: | "educational use" meaning "let's learn how to rip off as much content as we can" |
| [21:30:11] | wagnerrp: | i mean its not even that some or even a lot of the users would use it for theft, but most |
| [21:30:15] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: yup – and until they participate in the community, they haven't learned that lesson yet |
| [21:30:42] | Beirdo: | want louder music |
| [21:30:53] | wagnerrp: | its like bittorrent, it can be used for good reasons, like WOW distribution, or public domain videos |
| [21:31:04] | Beirdo: | or downloading ubuntu :) |
| [21:31:13] | wagnerrp: | but when that accounts for all of like half a percent... whats the point |
| [21:31:14] | kormoc: | he said good reasons |
| [21:31:14] | Beirdo: | but that's not the majority use by far |
| [21:31:20] | skd5aner: | probablem is – people keep making babies, who keep growing up into people who use the internet, who go through phases of learning this stuff for the first time – including morals |
| [21:31:24] | Beirdo: | kormoc: hehe :) |
| [21:31:40] | skd5aner: | the second problem is – some people have learned that don't give a crap about morals – and those are the people that ruin it for all of us |
| [21:32:09] | Beirdo: | those are the ones I wanna strangle |
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| [21:32:53] | skd5aner: | I find that often times, those people keep to themselves anyway |
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| [21:33:39] | wagnerrp: | as well they should |
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| [21:33:59] | wagnerrp: | people who partake in such behavior SHOULD stay in the 'shadows' |
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| [21:34:16] | wagnerrp: | its like the retards brandishing their stashes of drugs on their facebook page |
| [21:34:22] | Beirdo: | yeah |
| [21:34:23] | wagnerrp: | why would you ever want to show off such behavior? |
| [21:34:35] | wagnerrp: | it cant be good, its not going to get you 'street cred' |
| [21:34:37] | Beirdo: | no brains |
| [21:34:40] | wagnerrp: | it can only cause problems |
| [21:35:02] | Beirdo: | yup |
| [21:35:31] | Beirdo: | OK, this is annoying. I really need to re-rip some LPs |
| [21:35:44] | kormoc: | Don't you go forcing societal morality on me! |
| [21:35:45] | Beirdo: | I over-filtered |
| [21:36:04] | skd5aner: | Beirdo: ewww – filters |
| [21:36:26] | skd5aner: | kormoc: Be quiet and go make your bed! |
| [21:36:43] | kormoc: | and thus is how skd5aner was added to my /dev/null filter! |
| [21:36:52] | skd5aner: | heh |
| [21:37:11] | skd5aner: | a bit trigger happy today I see? :) |
| [21:37:51] | kormoc: | nah, that'd be the /Op'N'KickBan command ;) |
| [21:38:15] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [21:38:36] | Beirdo: | well, it's hard to get the right level of digital filtering |
| [21:38:52] | Beirdo: | so from now on, I won't be doing much at all |
| [21:39:03] | sphery: | Beirdo: you should try kormoc's /dev/null filter |
| [21:39:06] | sphery: | might help... |
| [21:39:09] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [21:39:30] | wagnerrp: | it gets rid of ALL the noise |
| [21:39:37] | Beirdo: | this one, I can hear the 60Hz hum in the background. I don't think I filtered it AT ALL |
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| [21:43:07] | sunkan: | jya: Heading to bed now.. But normally I don't have issues. I do when playing through HDMI on my AtomD525 ION box though, but that could be the TV or the receiviers fault too I guess. |
| [21:44:38] | skd5aner: | maybe the 60Hz hum was from the telecaster and/or amp originally used in the recording |
| [21:44:48] | skd5aner: | BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ |
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| [21:57:53] | devinheitmueller: | iamlindoro: I take no offense with regards to Mr. Lord. If he's willing to do a debug compile of MythTV to debug the issue, I can only commend his efforts. |
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| [22:19:44] | jst: | Hey, all. I'm going to reinstall my mythbackend. I'm running and will be running Debian. Is there a huge advantage to, say, ZFS or ext4 over ext3? |
| [22:21:23] | kormoc: | ext4 is nice and solid enough |
| [22:24:15] | jst: | Cool, thanks. |
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| [22:36:52] | bance: | hi |
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| [22:56:08] | wagnerrp: | i dont know how can you compare ext4 and zfs |
| [22:56:25] | wagnerrp: | i mean if youre running linux, zfs is not an option |
| [22:56:35] | wagnerrp: | if your running freebsd or solaris, ext3/4 is not an option |
| [22:57:06] | wagnerrp: | so if you dont have the option of choosing one over the other, why bother comparing |
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| [23:29:03] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, fuse_zfs of course! |
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| [23:34:52] | Wicked: | for the hdpvr recording profiles...it has low,med,high resolution settings..im assuming high would be 1080, med would be 720, and low would be 480? |
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| [23:35:25] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [23:35:30] | Wicked: | k thanks ;) |
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| [23:44:26] | Wicked: | ugh. this stinks....I cannot get anything to work with with re encoding these hdpvr recordings :| |
| [23:44:39] | Wicked: | ive tried so many things...and nothing is working. |
| [23:44:44] | Wicked: | so annoying :| |
| [23:53:53] | jya (jya!~jyavenard@mythtv/developer/jya) has quit (Quit: jya) | |
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