Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, March 30th, 2011, 00:01 UTC

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** wagnerrp would poke devinheitmueller, but hes not here **

[00:11:36]

iamlindoro:

This Mark Lord guy seems to be all about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

[00:12:00]

iamlindoro:

Why let a perfectly nice message go when you can turn it into a chance to pick your bone

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wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: wonder if ill get a 'the documentation is too long!'

[00:20:37]

clgshaft:

Hey guys, where can I learn udev rules to write something for two hauppauge 2250's?

[00:21:05]

Beirdo:

!url lmgtfy udev rules

[00:21:05]

MythLogBot:

lmgtfy: http://lmgtfy.com?q=udev%20rules

[00:22:36]

wagnerrp:

arent glibc memory corruption errors typically indicative of bad hardware?

[00:24:16]

kormoc:

yes

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clgshaft:

Beirdo: Thanks

[00:25:29]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I think so... or double free situations, but I think it reports them separately

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wagnerrp:

Beirdo: any reason why INSTALL is hard coded in the php bindings makefile?

[00:37:56]

pac1:

how do you delete recordings?

[00:38:08]

wagnerrp:

its pulling in ../../config.mak, which at least on my system is already mapped to 'install'

[00:38:22]

wagnerrp:

see #9551

[00:39:20]

Beirdo:

hmmm, not sure.

[00:39:47]

wagnerrp:

i ask, since your name is on the commit

[00:40:04]

Beirdo:

probably out of habit. we find install in configure?

[00:40:29]

Beirdo:

punt that puppy over to me, I'll look at it in a bit when I get home.

[00:40:40]

pac1:

found it under system status.

[00:41:17]

Beirdo:

anyways, gonna head home. I need beer.

[00:41:19]

Beirdo:

heh

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pac1:

scrolling through the auto-expire list and deleting now. no effect. when i come back later what I deleted is still there.

[00:54:30]

wagnerrp:

in watch recordings, you can hit 'd', or use the 'm' menu

[00:54:42]

wagnerrp:

you can also go into manage recordings, and delete in one of the options there

[00:55:05]

wagnerrp:

there shouldnt not be any ability to delete recordings in the system information screen

[00:55:45]

pac1:

It says there is, but it has no effect.

[00:55:58]

wagnerrp:

what version of mythtv are you running?

[00:56:12]

wagnerrp:

do you have delete slowly enabled?

[00:56:22]

wagnerrp:

do you have delete to the deleted storage group enabled?

[00:57:01]

pac1:

where do I set that?

[00:57:09]

wagnerrp:

both are disabled by default

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[00:59:31]

pac1:

is that a backend setting?

[00:59:57]

wagnerrp:

both control the behavior of the backend, but i dont recall where those settings actually are

[01:00:43]

Twigger:

pretty sure they are in mythtv-setup

[01:01:00]

Twigger:

its not in frontend settings

[01:01:28]

pac1:

delete files slowly is not checked (in backend)

[01:01:36]

pac1:

looking for deleted storage group

[01:02:07]

wagnerrp:

not storage group, i meant recording group

[01:02:17]

wagnerrp:

rather than delete the files directly, it just marks them as deleted

[01:02:25]

wagnerrp:

and they are the first to be culled by the auto-expirer

[01:02:58]

Twigger:

I think it is recommend to delete slowly unless you have a special few file systems. (non are ext...)

[01:03:10]

Twigger:

Unless the wiki I read is outdated

[01:03:16]

wagnerrp:

no, it is recommended to delete normally unless you are using ext2/3

[01:03:38]

Twigger:

Why does all the others delete faster than ext2/3

[01:03:58]

wagnerrp:

because ext3 is horrible at handling large files

[01:04:05]

Twigger:

what about ext4?

[01:04:16]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe it suffers from those issues

[01:04:36]

wagnerrp:

i know mythbuntu now defaults to that, and i dont recall those people having any trouble with it

[01:04:41]

Twigger:

What do you use?

[01:04:55]

Twigger:

defaults to ext4 or delete files slowly?

[01:04:57]

wagnerrp:

JFS and ZFS

[01:05:16]

wagnerrp:

mythbuntu now formats with ext4 by default

[01:05:17]

Twigger:

do you use those for you root fs or just media?

[01:05:20]

Twigger:

oh

[01:05:26]

pac1:

where do you set delete to a file group?

[01:05:31]

Twigger:

s/you/your/

[01:05:54]

wagnerrp:

ZFS for the systems that support it, JFS for everything else

[01:07:43]

Twigger:

In the past I have just stuck to ext4 due to the fact that there is so many choices and i have no clue. When you say systems, you mean distros right?

[01:07:52]

pac1:

I just want to get rid of a few programs to cut down on disk space. Why is that so hard?

[01:08:09]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: no, because no Linux distros support ZFS

[01:08:11]

pac1:

rm filename seems to work just fine.

[01:08:24]

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[01:08:29]

wagnerrp:

pac1: and orphans the metadata stored by mythtv for those recordings

[01:08:50]

jst:

I'm having trouble finding where I can add custom filters (ex: vdpaubuffersize=32). Can someone point it out for me?

[01:08:55]

Twigger:

Isnt that what the broken find orphans is for ;)

[01:09:05]

Twigger:

I suffer from that issue on 3 sd recordings

[01:09:12]

foxbuntu:

Twigger, ext4 is not a bad choice, pretty good performance...

[01:09:25]

wagnerrp:

broken find orphans?

[01:09:28]

pac1:

ok so how do I get rid of the orphans in the database

[01:09:44]

wagnerrp:

pac1: by deleting them properly through mythfrontend in the first place

[01:10:04]

pac1:

not posible – fscked partition.

[01:10:19]

wagnerrp:

if its fscked, then its in good working order again

[01:10:30]

pac1:

as in rebuilt.

[01:10:35]

pac1:

no data available.

[01:10:36]

Twigger:

But I changed the default storage location and then tried to delete it. I dunno if that caused it

[01:10:59]

Twigger:

foxbuntu, I have never been bleeding edge on getting speed out of my fs's. As long as they are stable I am happy

[01:11:18]

pac1:

so what do you do about orphans?

[01:11:33]

foxbuntu:

Twigger, its stable now, there were some issues with fraging early on, but thats long since fixed

[01:11:41]

pac1:

recordings for which there are no longer files.

[01:11:42]

wagnerrp:

if you have orphaned metadata through no fault of your own, and are running 0.24 or better, you can use the find_orphans.py script on the wiki

[01:11:52]

Twigger:

I thought ext in general never suffered from fraging

[01:11:58]

pac1:

ok. I'll try that.

[01:12:08]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: very much incorrect

[01:12:27]

wagnerrp:

it is just far better at handling it than fat and ntfs in windows

[01:12:44]

Twigger:

pac1, you should probably run the find_orphans.py as a dry run first

[01:12:47]

Twigger:

ohh

[01:12:55]

Twigger:

So is there anyway to defrag a ext fs?

[01:13:25]

wagnerrp:

there are utilities for some linux FSs

[01:13:32]

wagnerrp:

i believe there is one for ext2/3

[01:13:43]

wagnerrp:

if nothing else, you can always just move the files to a different disk and then back

[01:14:03]

wagnerrp:

if youve got a decent amount of free space, its an instant defrag

[01:14:29]

foxbuntu:

wagnerrp, Twigger https://ext4.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/New_ex . . . ragmentation

[01:15:05]

kormoc:

noaXess, ext3 has no defrag. ext2's is offline and not recommended for ext3 filesystems

[01:15:41]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: why not? the worst you would risk would be a trashed journal

[01:16:20]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, my understanding is it doesn't understand the dir_index flag and would corrupt inodes

[01:16:31]

kormoc:

that said, it's not something I've investigated much

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wagnerrp:

ok, i thought the only difference between ext2 and ext3 was the journal

[01:17:14]

kormoc:

nah, there's a few more as well

[01:17:15]

wagnerrp:

and tools were forwards and backwards compatible with each

[01:17:21]

pac1:

AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'delete'

[01:18:02]

wagnerrp:

pac1: did you have find_orphans.py delete those recordings, and then tell it to delete them all over again?

[01:18:09]

foxbuntu:

wagnerrp, kormoc I really know very little on it, but that wiki i posted says ext3/4 both have online defrag as of a long time ago

[01:18:09]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, http://marc.info/?l=ext3-users&m=116231468911590&w=2

[01:18:20]

kormoc:

foxbuntu, ext3 certainly does not

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pac1:

probably.

[01:19:22]

pac1:

they were still there.

[01:19:26]

kormoc:

foxbuntu, "Now I don't have the user space part that finds larger runs of free blocks and so on so that it can really be used as a defragmenter. I just send this as a kind of proof-of-concept to hear some comments."

[01:19:29]

wagnerrp:

there is a race condition where that script tells the backend to delete those recordings, and then pulls a new list of content from the backend

[01:19:47]

wagnerrp:

since the backend has not gotten around to deleting those files milliseconds after being told to do so

[01:19:54]

pac1:

ah ok. so I have to wait for th backend to catch up.

[01:19:56]

wagnerrp:

when the new list is pulled, those files still exist in the database

[01:20:02]

foxbuntu:

kormoc, i just saw that, ignore my ignorance on the subject then...

[01:20:10]

kormoc:

foxbuntu, so there was a (unaccepted) kernel patch that attempted to address a little bit of it, but it's hardly usable

[01:20:13]

wagnerrp:

so after you wait a few seconds and tell the script to delete them a second time

[01:20:22]

wagnerrp:

it will be trying to delete something that no longer exists

[01:20:24]

pac1:

so if i try it now it should work?

[01:20:41]

wagnerrp:

if you rerun the script, it should report no orphaned metadata

[01:20:42]

kormoc:

foxbuntu, and the link I just posted to wagnerrp backs up my claim that defrag2fs is bad for ext3

[01:20:55]

pac1:

its down to 18 now from 78.

[01:21:13]

foxbuntu:

kormoc, I read that as well...no problem, as I said...not my expertise

[01:21:21]

pac1:

now 11.

[01:21:36]

pac1:

getting there....

[01:22:01]

kormoc:

foxbuntu, no worries, I do try to keep up on that sorta thing so would be a surprise if it slipped through :)

[01:22:48]

foxbuntu:

kormoc, I stay just well enough informed on the kernel type stuff to break my laptop now and again...

[01:27:12]

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jst:

Would the mythbuntu repositories work with Debian?

[01:30:05]

Twigger:

because buntu uses debian packages?

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jst:

Yeah.

[01:30:27]

Twigger:

oh I added why infront of your statement

[01:30:29]

Twigger:

oops

[01:31:49]

jst:

Well, does anyone know?

[01:32:06]

Twigger:

try it, I woudl think it woudl work

[01:32:15]

Twigger:

you could always build from source

[01:32:27]

Twigger:

Is mythtv not availble in any debian repos?

[01:32:54]

jst:

No, it is. I'm using it right now. But mythbuntu releases lots of bug fixes. I like the convenience of not having to compile frequently.

[01:35:49]

pac1:

Folks are right about deleting large files on EXT3 15 seconds to delete 6.9gb

[01:35:59]

pac1:

how long on xfs?

[01:36:09]

wagnerrp:

few dozen milliseconds

[01:36:21]

Twigger:

does it just write that there is nothing there?

[01:36:33]

pac1:

coming soon to a partition near me...

[01:36:34]

wagnerrp:

no, and thats the problem

[01:37:13]

pac1:

wagnerrp, does that script delete files or does the backend?

[01:37:17]

Twigger:

so a rm on xfs woudl be easily recoverable or no?

[01:37:25]

wagnerrp:

pac1: it tells the backend to

[01:37:40]

pac1:

and the backend takes its sweet time....

[01:37:40]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: no, an rm on xfs is very difficult to recover

[01:37:46]

pac1:

;-)

[01:38:13]

Twigger:

How does it delete it so fast and yet be thorough?

[01:38:28]

wagnerrp:

the data is all there, but it is scattered among random 4K blocks

[01:38:48]

wagnerrp:

if youre lucky, it will be in one sequential block, and you can just read at the necessary offset through dd

[01:39:01]

Twigger:

so it was scattered in the first place?

[01:39:05]

wagnerrp:

well... you cant use dd, but you get the idea

[01:39:15]

wagnerrp:

you still need to figure out where the offset is

[01:39:35]

wagnerrp:

if it is not one sequential block, but rather is fragmented (much more likely)

[01:39:45]

wagnerrp:

you will have to find each fragment, and stitch them together

[01:40:04]

Twigger:

gotcha, but wouldnt you ahve to do that with any fs?

[01:40:12]

wagnerrp:

yes, you would

[01:40:42]

wagnerrp:

some FSs are nicer than others, leaving that information around, intact until someone else wants to use those inodes

[01:40:53]

Twigger:

so to put it in real world terms. when you delete the file on xfs it deletes the "map" to all the blocks holding data for it?

[01:40:54]

wagnerrp:

xfs wipes it immediately

[01:41:02]

wagnerrp:

basically, yes

[01:41:03]

Twigger:

ohh

[01:41:14]

wagnerrp:

the data is all there, you just have no idea where

[01:41:44]

Twigger:

so basically it is pretty secure yet fast at deleting too

[01:42:17]

wagnerrp:

with enough time and effort, the data can be recovered

[01:42:27]

wagnerrp:

and plain text can be read directly

[01:42:36]

wagnerrp:

it should not be considered secure

[01:43:08]

Twigger:

Hmm enough time and effort? On CSI or NCIS or w/e it would take about 15 minutes, on any fs

[01:43:31]

wagnerrp:

hundreds to thousands of man hours

[01:46:26]

jst:

Hmm, are there supposed to be directions at github.com/MythTV?

[01:46:39]

Twigger:

(XFS)On 32-bit Linux systems, this limits the file and file system sizes to 16 tebibytes. Damn, so my 79 hour hd recording wont qualify

[01:47:02]

wagnerrp:

sphery: got an example of tuner priorities gone wild? http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /312915.html

[01:47:12]

wagnerrp:

WTF are tebibytes?

[01:47:22]

wagnerrp:

we type without stutters in this channel

[01:47:49]

wagnerrp:

jst: directions for what?

[01:48:19]

tgm4883:

wagnerrp, if you are american, then it's probably something british. If you are british, then it is probably something eastern european

[01:48:25]

Twigger:

Isnt that the other sizing bas?

[01:48:42]

wagnerrp:

terabytes

[01:48:51]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, It's 100 gibibytes, dummy ;)

[01:48:55]

iamlindoro:

er 1000 ;)

[01:48:56]

Twigger:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tebibyte

[01:49:00]

Twigger:

bada boom?

[01:49:07]

jst:

How do I pull 0.24 fixes? git co what, exactly?

[01:49:12]

wagnerrp:

if youre talking about limitations induced by 32-bit anything, its going to be a binary value

[01:49:24]

wagnerrp:

jst: http://code.mythtv.org/trac

[01:49:36]

tgm4883:

meh

[01:49:36]

jst:

Thanks!

[01:50:23]

Twigger:

iamlindoro, 1024 gibibytes

[01:51:00]

iamlindoro:

It's the betamax of sizing terminology

[01:51:20]

tgm4883:

iamlindoro, ah, it's better, but not much better thus nobody cares about it?

[01:51:25]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: specifically, youre talking about being limited to 2**32 blocks, with a block size of 2**12 bytes

[01:51:33]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, precisely

[01:51:48]

Twigger:

Its just funny that it gives a huge size as an example

[01:51:49]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, and those who use it are regarded as bats**T crazy

[01:51:51]

wagnerrp:

or... 17.6 tebibibibibytes

[01:52:01]

tgm4883:

or as I like to call it

[01:52:12]

** iamlindoro prescribes 120 minutes therapy with Geoffrey Rush for that stutter **

[01:52:16]

wagnerrp:

whats better? 17.592186 TiB? or 16 TB?

[01:52:20]

tgm4883:

#276 on the list of reasons girls don't like you

[01:52:30]

wagnerrp:

binary just fits itself SOOOOO much better to computer operations

[01:52:32]

tgm4883:

you in the general term

[01:52:36]

wagnerrp:

and so it is the one we should use

[01:52:37]

Twigger:

I am pretty sure that my mythbuntu computer refers to TiB, Kib, etc in some things

[01:52:54]

tgm4883:

I'm unaware of women's general feelings toward iamlindoro

[01:52:55]

iamlindoro:

girls don't like mythbuntu either

[01:53:05]

wagnerrp:

and the people pushing the use of SI data prefixes should be drawn and quartered

[01:53:24]

iamlindoro:

tgm4883, Well I am the self proclaimed most physically fit MythTV dev, and it's never been proven otherwise ;)

[01:53:38]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: I don't doubt it :)

[01:53:42]

iamlindoro:

chicks dig *that*

[01:53:43]

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iamlindoro:

;)

[01:53:49]

tgm4883:

bow chicka bow wow

[01:53:49]

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[01:53:50]

Twigger:

pics or it didnt happen

[01:54:08]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: it didnt happen, hes always too exhausted from running

[01:54:11]

tgm4883:

hey baby, you want me to skip those commercials ;)

[01:54:16]

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[01:54:17]

Beirdo:

or biking...

[01:54:26]

wagnerrp:

or swimming

[01:54:27]

iamlindoro:

I swam today too

[01:54:29]

iamlindoro:

hahah

[01:54:32]

Beirdo:

nice :)

[01:54:51]

Twigger:

His pick up line is "I bet your TiVo cant do this!"

[01:54:56]

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[01:55:05]

** iamlindoro wonders what his measurements are in tebinches **

[01:55:08]

Beirdo:

I wish I had the willpower to get off my duff to do even a portion of the exercise...

[01:55:45]

Twigger:

iamlindoro, you have to ch

[01:55:53]

Twigger:

oops I accidently hit enter

[01:55:57]

Twigger:

lol

[01:57:01]

Beirdo:

got a bit too excited?

[01:57:23]

Twigger:

Lol well I am watching the biggest loser...

[01:57:43]

Beirdo:

I refuse to watch that lame show

[01:57:46]

Twigger:

I was trying to think of something witty but it just didnt happen

[01:57:47]

Twigger:

Me too

[01:57:52]

iamlindoro:

Hah. My friend from college is on The Biggest Loser this season

[01:58:01]

Beirdo:

they routinely put people on there that are smaller than me

[01:58:11]

Teligard:

Beirdo: Sometimes it just takes an attractive motivator...

[01:58:13]

Beirdo:

like I'd get a chance. heh

[01:58:17]

Twigger:

:) Actually nothing is on and I am caught up on my shows so I have to settle

[01:58:21]

mycoDA:

What is wrong with SI prefixes? do you mean the nuts that want to count computer space in base 10?

[01:58:52]

mycoDA is now known as mycosys

[01:59:43]

wagnerrp:

yes, i dont like the use of base-10 in computers

[01:59:48]

wagnerrp:

it makes no sense

[02:00:05]

Beirdo:

it only makes sense when printing numbers for human consumption :)

[02:00:14]

mycosys:

yep – only luddites would think that was a good idea

[02:00:25]

Beirdo:

nah

[02:00:28]

mycosys:

at least until we get base10 computers lol

[02:00:39]

Beirdo:

not luddites... cheap hard drive manufacturers

[02:00:44]

wagnerrp:

it only makes sense to people who dont realize that 1K=1024

[02:00:53]

Beirdo:

they just wanna make the drives look bigger than they are

[02:01:37]

wagnerrp:

i would absolutely love to buy a 1.81TB hard drive

[02:01:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:02:17]

mycosys:

HDDs are about the only thing on a pc that has no real reason to be in base 2 actually

[02:02:28]

Beirdo:

pfft

[02:02:36]

Twigger:

I hate how hdd mfg's rate their size on raw size and not formatted size

[02:02:37]

Beirdo:

the block sizes are still base 2

[02:02:51]

wagnerrp:

Twigger: what are you talking about?

[02:02:58]

wagnerrp:

raw size IS formatted size

[02:03:07]

mycosys:

that is an os thing tho bierdo, not hdd

[02:03:11]

Twigger:

a 1tb hdd is less than 1tb when formatted

[02:03:15]

wagnerrp:

minus some very small overhead that varies dependending on the file system you use

[02:03:16]

Beirdo:

no it is not

[02:03:18]

Twigger:

I may of used incorrect terms

[02:03:27]

Beirdo:

block size is inherent to the drive

[02:03:40]

wagnerrp:

a 1TB hard drive can hold 937GB of data

[02:03:49]

wagnerrp:

whether formatted, or just stored raw on the disk

[02:03:51]

Beirdo:

if yer lucky

[02:03:54]

mycosys:

:S me should think more when on oxycodone lol

[02:03:58]

Twigger:

why is that not 1000 or 1024?

[02:04:08]

Beirdo:

don't forget directory overhead :)

[02:04:20]

wagnerrp:

because they store 1*1000*1000*1000*1000 bytes

[02:04:28]

mycosys:

cos it is 1,000,000,000,000 bytes

[02:04:34]

wagnerrp:

which is equal to 937*1024*1024*1024 bytes

[02:04:57]

Twigger:

ohh... so that ties into what you are talking about then

[02:04:58]

wagnerrp:

its the whole base numbering system ive just spent the last five minutes complaining about

[02:05:07]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:05:08]

mycosys:

does ANY hdd manufuacturer use base2 for capacity?

[02:05:18]

Beirdo:

not anymore, the cheap buggers

[02:05:25]

Twigger:

lol well at least I am up to speed for the moment

[02:05:29]

Beirdo:

except for SSDs

[02:05:36]

wagnerrp:

mycosys: yes, up until fairly recently, enterprise drives were measured in base2

[02:05:42]

mycosys:

ssds arent hdds

[02:05:49]

wagnerrp:

you didnt buy an 80GB drives, you bought a 73GB drive

[02:05:55]

mycosys:

true

[02:06:00]

mycosys:

didnt thikn o that

[02:06:38]

mycosys:

dont think any manufacturer is gonna be the brave odd one out and go (sensible) base2 and look smaller than the others

[02:06:45]

mycosys:

even most power users dotn get it

[02:07:39]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, I need food with this beer

[02:07:49]

wagnerrp:

liquid food maybe

[02:07:54]

Twigger:

I need cereal with this beer

[02:08:39]

mycosys:

i need beer

[02:15:13]

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[02:25:52]

Beirdo:

there. chili on toast

[02:25:59]

Beirdo:

now, back to beer

[02:27:47]

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[02:34:15]

wagnerrp:

huh

[02:34:33]

wagnerrp:

when a ticket goes from accepted, to infoneeded, and the user marks it as info provided

[02:34:38]

wagnerrp:

it goes to assigned, rather than accepted

[02:34:46]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:34:48]

Beirdo:

sucky

[02:35:04]

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[02:35:08]

wagnerrp:

well... i dont know

[02:35:14]

wagnerrp:

that may actually be preferred

[02:35:20]

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[02:35:25]

wagnerrp:

since the owner has to review the new information

[02:35:36]

Beirdo:

hmm, yeah, I guess

[02:35:44]

orly_owl:

hello

[02:37:42]

orly_owl:

http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Afatech_AF9015 does not appear in /dev/ with 2.6.32-25-generic even though kernel modules are loaded

[02:37:48]

orly_owl:

any ideas why?

[02:38:07]

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[02:38:18]

wacomtabletpc:

lsusb and dmesg see it

[02:38:36]

wagnerrp:

you see that column in the table there that says 'supported'?

[02:38:51]

wagnerrp:

where different tuners using that chip were supported in different kernels?

[02:39:06]

wagnerrp:

perhaps support for your tuner was not added until lafter 2.6.32

[02:39:11]

orly_owl:

hmm, good point

[02:39:16]

wagnerrp:

specifically, what tuner do you have?

[02:39:31]

orly_owl:

my tuner looks exactly like this http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Noname_CE6230_OEM

[02:40:01]

orly_owl:

well, mine has a sticker on it saying 'HDTV USB DVB-T'

[02:40:05]

orly_owl:

but apart from that

[02:40:40]

orly_owl:

so a tuner can use the same chip but still not be supported. >_<

[02:40:54]

orly_owl:

what exactly is being supported then?

[02:42:06]

orly_owl:

i guess ill update linux

[02:42:39]

wagnerrp:

if its not supported, youll have to ask the #linuxtv people

[02:42:52]

wagnerrp:

it may be as simple as adding your device and vendor id to the driver for autodetection

[02:44:15]

orly_owl:

hope so

[02:44:30]

orly_owl:

#linuxtv is pretty dead right now

[02:48:00]

wagnerrp:

it generally is, but thats where the kernel developers hang out

[02:48:07]

orly_owl:

ah ok

[02:48:08]

wagnerrp:

over here, were just API users

[02:48:19]

orly_owl:

makes sense

[02:49:50]

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[04:01:09]

clgshaft:

Is anyone here an expert with udev rules?

[04:03:27]

Beirdo:

clgshaft: there are SO many good tutorials out there

[04:03:59]

clgshaft:

Ok, I'll keep looking. I am so green to this Linux stuff

[04:04:35]

clgshaft:

I just want to get a stable system and it just isn't working

[04:09:53]

clgshaft:

I have removed one of my tuners until I can figure out udev. Thanks

[04:11:48]

clgshaft:

Works fine with only one tuner

[04:13:15]

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[04:40:44]

Abhijit:

hi

[04:40:45]

Abhijit:

is it possible or anyone has success to watch discovery,national geographic, travel and living, bbc or al jazeera live free on linux using mythtv?

[04:41:18]

orly_owl:

shoo

[04:41:22]

wagnerrp:

shoo?

[04:41:34]

orly_owl:

meaning go away

[04:41:45]

Abhijit:

???

[04:41:49]

Beirdo:

so friendly

[04:41:59]

wagnerrp:

Abhijit: how would you propose accessing those freely?

[04:42:13]

wagnerrp:

i believe al jazeera could be had through C-band and a big dish

[04:42:14]

Abhijit:

wagnerrp, i am not proposing. i am asking if that is possible?

[04:42:54]

iamlindoro:

Abhijit, he's asking how you would go about getting a paid resource for free

[04:42:55]

orly_owl:

It's possible,

[04:42:55]

wagnerrp:

discover, national geographic, (and bbc if not in england) would have to be picked up through a cable/satellite subscription

[04:43:09]

orly_owl:

iamlindoro is on the money

[04:43:15]

wagnerrp:

travel and living? never heard of that channel

[04:43:28]

Beirdo:

they are also on satellite here

[04:43:34]

Abhijit:

hmm

[04:43:39]

wagnerrp:

if they have pre-recorded content available on-demand through flash video

[04:43:40]

Beirdo:

again, paid content

[04:43:43]

kormoc:

al jazeera english is free, as is regular al jazeera

[04:43:57]

orly_owl:

bbc world news and al jazeera do not ask for a subscription

[04:44:01]

wagnerrp:

you can use mythnetvision and either rss, or a grabber, to access that content

[04:44:01]

orly_owl:

mhm

[04:44:25]

wagnerrp:

but mythtv is not designed to handle most live internet streams

[04:44:36]

wagnerrp:

if they offer RTSP streams, you can make it work

[04:44:41]

wagnerrp:

but i highly doubt they do

[04:45:23]

kormoc:

al jazeera requires you to use their flash video only when viewed embedded in their site IIRC

[04:45:33]

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[04:45:33]

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[04:45:45]

wagnerrp:

but for most of the content, it comes down to the fact that none of these channels offer a means for us to access free video

[04:45:59]

orly_owl:

kormoc: im sure it could be bypassed with enough work

[04:46:07]

wagnerrp:

orly_owl: actually, bbc charges for use

[04:46:19]

wagnerrp:

the charge everyone who accesses it

[04:46:38]

kormoc:

orly_owl, it's against project policy to endorse breaking of TOS

[04:46:41]

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[04:46:54]

orly_owl:

i see

[04:47:17]

wagnerrp:

if they have pre-recorded stuff, it may well be workable with mythnetvision

[04:47:53]

wagnerrp:

i suppose a grabber could give an item for live usage

[04:48:20]

Abhijit:

hmmm

[04:48:46]

wagnerrp:

but it would not be usable as a normal channel unless the provider explicitly provided a RTSP multicast stream mythtv could use with the iptv tuner

[04:50:10]

Abhijit:

thanks for the reply guys.

[04:50:11]

Abhijit:

bye

[04:50:12]

Abhijit (Abhijit!~Abhijit@unaffiliated/abhijit) has left #mythtv-users ("“Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment.”- Lao Tzu")

[04:50:59]

Beirdo:

another disappointed would-be pirate left.

[04:51:03]

CyberKnet:

heh

[04:51:06]

CyberKnet:

Aaarrrrr!

[04:51:42]

CyberKnet:

Anyone know if you can rename a database in mysql?

[04:52:38]

orly_owl:

bypassing DRM on satellite tv is very tricky las ti checked

[04:52:43]

orly_owl:

*last I

[04:52:50]

wagnerrp:

and... illegal

[04:52:58]

Beirdo:

orly_owl: also forbidden topic

[04:53:10]

orly_owl:

aye

[04:54:19]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, you can't (anymore) but what you can do is create a new one and RENAME old.table TO new.table;

[04:54:33]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, assuming both databases are on the same filesystem

[04:54:48]

wagnerrp:

madness

[04:54:49]

CyberKnet:

I have mythconverg and mythconverg_old

[04:55:21]

CyberKnet:

I don't really need all the old baggage... just the recordings (and everything related), recording rules, etc

[04:55:35]

wagnerrp:

so, all the baggage

[04:55:36]

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[04:55:40]

CyberKnet:

oh, ok.. yeah

[04:55:42]

CyberKnet:

all the baggage.

[04:55:58]

CyberKnet:

plugin data I don't care about. I guess that's minimal.

[04:56:27]

wagnerrp:

the only significant information in the database is the seek table

[04:56:34]

wagnerrp:

it vastly dwarfs everything else

[04:56:39]

CyberKnet:

fair enough.

[04:56:44]

CyberKnet:

pretty sure I would want that.

[04:56:49]

wagnerrp:

even the EPG pales in comparison

[04:58:03]

CyberKnet:

I'm reading the backup and restore page on the wiki... everything there says "do not attempt a partial restore"

[04:58:29]

CyberKnet:

and it seems to me what I had in mind is a partial restore.

[04:58:47]

CyberKnet:

but – I don't know for sure if they are the same database schema version.

[04:58:50]

wagnerrp:

right, there is no real need for a partial restore

[04:59:02]

CyberKnet:

is there a way for me to verify what schema version the old one is?

[04:59:10]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter

[04:59:17]

wagnerrp:

the backend will upgrade it to whatever it wants

[04:59:45]

CyberKnet:

unless the database schema version on the old one was newer?

[04:59:56]

wagnerrp:

which it shouldnt be

[05:00:28]

CyberKnet:

I'm not exactly known for being the sharpest spoon in the drawer.

[05:00:33]

CyberKnet:

;)

[05:02:59]

CyberKnet:

so then what I would want to do is backup the current database, drop it, recreate the database, import the old backup into mythconverg and then restart the backend?

[05:03:47]

wagnerrp:

you want to trash 'mythconverg', and replace it with 'mythconverg_old'?

[05:04:12]

CyberKnet:

I believe so.

[05:04:55]

CyberKnet:

trash mythconverg and replace it with myth_old

[05:08:12]

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[06:42:20]

justinh:

ooo. web-based setup really *is* coming isn't it

[06:42:52]

wagnerrp:

slowly

[06:42:59]

[R]:

no, those checkins are a figment of your imagination

[06:43:05]

justinh:

heh well it was never going to be an overnight thing

[06:43:15]

wagnerrp:

dblain's xml rewrite really kicked things off

[06:43:37]

wagnerrp:

makes sense i suppose

[06:43:52]

justinh:

like all the 'easy in theory' stuff, needs somebody to get up & do the donkey work

[06:43:57]

wagnerrp:

why write all that stuff up if the web server is being rewritten

[06:44:01]

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[06:44:30]

wagnerrp:

once that got committed, capt'n started adding stuff, then iamli ndoro

[06:46:39]

CyberKnet:

web setup is more desirable than program setup?

[06:46:46]

Beirdo:

yes

[06:47:00]

Beirdo:

no more mythtv-setup woudl be splendid

[06:47:18]

wagnerrp:

think of it more as.... mouse/keyboard/large screen setup is more desireable than ir remote/small tv setup

[06:47:24]

wagnerrp:

thats the real big issue

[06:47:25]

CyberKnet:

because more people can hack on it, because it is easier to maintain, because the kind people who are writing it instead of me say so?

[06:47:37]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup MUST be designed to be usable on a small 480i tv

[06:47:40]

CyberKnet:

For instances of typing, I agree.

[06:47:44]

Beirdo:

because everyone has a web client

[06:47:55]

wagnerrp:

such a screen is not conducive to complex configuration

[06:48:00]

Beirdo:

and not everyone even wants an X server on their backend :)

[06:48:17]

wagnerrp:

well... you dont need an X server on the backend

[06:48:20]

wagnerrp:

but im sure you know that

[06:48:22]

justinh:

Beirdo: yeah because running X on a plugtop server is quite demanding :P

[06:48:49]

Beirdo:

well, you need an X server or to use a remote X server, but yeah

[06:48:56]

CyberKnet:

I think a web setup would be splendid fwiw. I was just curious what the reasoning was.

[06:49:07]

Beirdo:

there are many reasons :)

[06:49:15]

Beirdo:

and it just needs an overhaul too

[06:49:33]

wagnerrp:

it would be nice to retain a GUI setup

[06:49:46]

justinh:

in the big scheme of things, since mythui came along & kicked the UI into this century, mythtv-setup needed to be rewritten to make use of mythui – which would be a big undertaking by itself

[06:49:52]

wagnerrp:

and one of the original plans was to expose all the necessary tools through mythproto or mythxml, to allow such

[06:49:57]

Beirdo:

it's called "firefox" or "chrome" :)

[06:50:09]

wagnerrp:

but it would still not be something runnable on a TV with a remote

[06:50:19]

Beirdo:

but yeah, having the option of a GUI one is still good

[06:50:24]

wagnerrp:

thats something that must be done away with

[06:50:33]

justinh:

I dunno about anybody else, I wouldn't like to configure mythtv from scratch with only a remote

[06:50:46]

CyberKnet:

nope. I always have a keyboard plugged in for that.

[06:51:05]

CyberKnet:

if for no other reason than entering my schedules direct credentials with a remote would suck pretty bad.

[06:51:11]

wagnerrp:

justinh: right, so why limit the setup to allow for that

[06:51:57]

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[06:52:09]

justinh:

ugh. the 'who build mythtv from source' thread is a bit disturbing

[06:52:21]

justinh:

people *still* clinging to the stupid arrow key accelerators

[06:53:13]

CyberKnet:

is that where right becomes forward 3s after you hit back, but after some time resumes to forward 30s?

[06:53:26]

justinh:

not sure

[06:53:40]

justinh:

but it was where the left & right arrow keys were part of the main UI navigation too

[06:54:09]

wagnerrp:

yeah, when the UI was vertical menus, it let you use the arrow keys only for navigation

[06:54:17]

wagnerrp:

while now, it requires arrow keys and select

[06:54:23]

wagnerrp:

oh no! another button!

[06:54:30]

wagnerrp:

THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!!!!

[06:54:35]

justinh:

heh

[06:54:52]

justinh:

if people are using mythtv with a remote with NOT ENOUGH BUTTONS that should be their own lookout

[06:55:19]

CyberKnet:

how do you get by in myth without a "select" button though... you've gotto have that.

[06:55:23]

justinh:

up to a point (see earlier rants about two context menus for media items)

[06:55:33]

wagnerrp:

yes, you do have to have a select button

[06:55:40]

wagnerrp:

you cannot use mythtv without that select button

[06:55:43]

justinh:

helps to have a BACK button too

[06:56:19]

wagnerrp:

and in some areas, you can continue to use the arrow keys instead of select to navigate

[06:56:26]

CyberKnet:

I'd be lying if I said I didn't have the same key mapped to multiple buttons, and keys that I wish I could map to buttons but don't have a) another button and/or b) a button that would make sense for the key

[06:56:42]

wagnerrp:

but the 5-way has become a standard feature on just about every modern remote

[06:56:51]

wagnerrp:

so its not like your thumb has to go far

[06:56:58]

wagnerrp:

the select is right in the center of the arrow keys

[06:57:07]

justinh:

I think even the Apple remote has that

[06:57:16]

justinh:

oh wait.. maybe not lol

[06:57:36]

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[06:57:41]

justinh:

oh yeah it does.

[06:57:54]

justinh:

*just*

[06:58:15]

CyberKnet:

people complain a lot I suppose.

[06:58:24]

** justinh is glad he doesn't own a remote his son could easily swallow by mistake **

[06:58:30]

CyberKnet:

The only reason I'm not is because someone hasn't eliminated the features I love.

[06:58:43]

wagnerrp:

exactly, people complain

[06:58:48]

wagnerrp:

not because of any significant problem

[06:58:59]

wagnerrp:

because of the insignificant nuances

[06:59:08]

justinh:

if something is done *wrong* for too long folks get used to it

[06:59:13]

CyberKnet:

however – as I said to Beirdo earlier ... I do try pretty hard not to piss off the people who spend their free time making things that make my free time much more enjoyable.

[06:59:14]

wagnerrp:

had mythtv never supported such a thing, they wouldnt know to complain about it being gone

[06:59:16]

justinh:

then they moan & whine when somebody puts it right

[06:59:18]

CyberKnet:

It's just curteous.

[07:00:03]

justinh:

wish people had tried harder not to wind me up. things might've been very very different with themes by now

[07:00:13]

CyberKnet:

I could not count on hands and feet the number of times I accidentally started programs before the "enter to start a program" deal went away.

[07:00:42]

CyberKnet:

I loved that change.

[07:00:59]

CyberKnet:

before the "arrow to start a program" deal went away, even.

[07:01:07]

CyberKnet:

I prefer hitting enter.

[07:01:22]

wagnerrp:

because its a deliberate action

[07:01:25]

wagnerrp:

it bloody makes sense

[07:01:27]

CyberKnet:

exactly.

[07:01:36]

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[07:02:01]

justinh:

heh imagine merely hovering over something was taken as an implicit 'select' action

[07:02:10]

CyberKnet:

hah

[07:02:18]

justinh:

hey the pointer was on top of the item for 2 seconds... open sesame!

[07:02:18]

CyberKnet:

some people would have way too many porn windows open :D

[07:03:33]

CyberKnet:

ok. bed time, it's 2am.

[07:03:41]

CyberKnet:

later folks. this scan will have to finish overnight.

[07:03:52]

wagnerrp:

scan?

[07:04:01]

CyberKnet:

scanning channels

[07:04:11]

CyberKnet:

I was actually just using that setup thing we were talking about :)

[07:04:13]

justinh:

ruh?

[07:04:23]

justinh:

how can scanning possibly take so long?

[07:04:23]

wagnerrp:

even a full scan shouldnt take more than 10–15 minutes

[07:04:32]

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[07:05:13]

justinh:

ugh that reminds me. BBC Radio 7 is changing its name to 'BBC Radio 4 Extra' soon. That'll mean rescanning

[07:05:26]

Beirdo:

boooo

[07:05:42]

CyberKnet:

It's 37% done, and I started it ... about 20 minutes ago I'd guess.

[07:05:48]

justinh:

in theory all they'll change is the name, not the serviceid & stuff

[07:06:02]

CyberKnet:

78 to T-14, only free channels, check encryption

[07:06:26]

justinh:

wonder how easy it'd be to add a nice 'ignore these channels' bit into the scanner

[07:06:32]

justinh:

like a blacklist

[07:06:42]

wagnerrp:

why bother with check encryption?

[07:06:54]

CyberKnet:

seemed like a good thing to check.

[07:07:00]

wagnerrp:

honestly, it doesnt really do anything

[07:07:07]

CyberKnet:

I'm not known for beeing the sharpest spoon in the drawer.

[07:07:12]

wagnerrp:

the stream itself is tagged as encrypted or not

[07:07:21]

wagnerrp:

check encryption just tries to engage the CAM

[07:07:33]

wagnerrp:

of course in north america, you dont have a CAM

[07:07:39]

wagnerrp:

so it literally does nothing

[07:07:52]

CyberKnet:

I guess users like me think "man, I wish my provider would send more than they do. Maybe I can check that and it actually will find more."

[07:08:11]

wagnerrp:

but one way or another, it still doesnt affect whether a channel gets added

[07:08:14]

CyberKnet:

so if it literally does nothing, it shouldnt have any effect on how long the scan takes, no?

[07:08:39]

wagnerrp:

it may take some amount of time to send the command to the DVB driver

[07:08:46]

CyberKnet:

fair enough.

[07:08:47]

wagnerrp:

and get back the failed response

[07:08:54]

CyberKnet:

I'll remember next time not to check that.

[07:09:00]

wagnerrp:

on several hundred channels, that probably takes a fair bit of time

[07:09:02]

CyberKnet:

but anyways, that was the reason I checked it.

[07:09:07]

wagnerrp:

but still... shouldnt take an hour to run a scan

[07:09:20]

CyberKnet:

"Maybe Cox just marks some channels as encrypted that aren't... I'd like to get those!"

[07:09:21]

wagnerrp:

especially if youre only scanning cable high

[07:09:30]

wagnerrp:

which by the way, you probably want to scan the full thing

[07:09:37]

wagnerrp:

unless you know channels 2–78 are all analog still

[07:10:00]

CyberKnet:

I really don't know. I know the channels I am looking for are 700+

[07:10:12]

CyberKnet:

but ... given that it only scans to 159, I know that I don't know what I am doing.

[07:10:14]

wagnerrp:

well theyre all virtual

[07:10:24]

wagnerrp:

analog channels were direct mappings

[07:10:33]

wagnerrp:

digital channels can name themselves whatever they want

[07:10:59]

wagnerrp:

and beyond that, digital cable is going to have its own out-of-band mapping that only their own cable boxes will be able to access

[07:11:19]

wagnerrp:

which is why when mythtv scans for channels, it doesnt get those high numbers

[07:14:03]

CyberKnet:

in the five minutes we've been talking it's moved along to 46%

[07:14:31]

wagnerrp:

yeah, either your tuner card is amazingly slow at tuning

[07:14:34]

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[07:14:43]

wagnerrp:

or the scanner is getting caught up on that 'check encryption' bit

[07:14:55]

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[07:15:34]

CyberKnet:

Probably... so I'm gonna let this run overnight. :)

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[07:43:31]

coffee88:

Hi all. Anyone know the difference between a nova T 500 and a nova TD 500. confused.

[07:45:30]

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[07:45:48]

wagnerrp:

the TD is for 'diversity'

[07:45:52]

Beirdo:

a D

[07:46:08]

justinh:

and early versions of the TD card will not work in linux

[07:46:22]

wagnerrp:

its capable of using the dual tuners as a single diversity input

[07:46:28]

justinh:

but apparently current versions of the TD card do work

[07:46:38]

wagnerrp:

using electronic steering

[07:46:55]

coffee88:

Ah. ok. so if i have a choice, go for the "T"? here it's $10 more than the TD...

[07:46:58]

wagnerrp:

trading dual inputs for significantly higher reception

[07:47:02]

coffee88:

(New Zealand)

[07:47:20]

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[07:47:29]

wagnerrp:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_W . . . -NOVA-TD-500

[07:48:01]

coffee88:

read that page. was still a bit confused. didn't really get that the the D was _always_ diversity...

[07:48:18]

coffee88:

a bit slow.

[07:48:25]

wagnerrp:

its optional.. if youre using windows

[07:48:31]

wagnerrp:

under linux, it only operates in dual tuner mode

[07:48:56]

coffee88:

but I'll need a splitter for the input?

[07:49:06]

wagnerrp:

yes

[07:49:29]

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[07:49:59]

coffee88:

so to summarise.... either card will do for a dual tuner mythtv card.

[07:50:14]

wagnerrp:

so it seems

[07:50:32]

coffee88:

sweet. thanks.

[07:51:53]

coffee88:

and while I'm here... any tv brands that work well with a mythtv library?

[07:52:06]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[07:52:41]

coffee88:

dlna or similar way to watch recordings...

[07:52:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: separate log file for each app

[07:53:04]

wagnerrp:

sphery: and the jobqueue?

[07:53:06]

sphery:

have a patch that changes --logfile to --logpath and allows you to specify a directory or file path

[07:53:13]

sphery:

just haven't pushed it

[07:53:22]

sphery:

(waiting for a couple other patches--including the mythtvd patch)

[07:53:32]

wagnerrp:

not sure what to do with the jobqueue

[07:53:51]

sphery:

Oh, and just have to say... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/476349#476349

[07:54:13]

sphery:

doesn't that translate to, "So I can add patches that make all my stolen video work, since MythTV doesn't properly support stolen video."

[07:54:34]

wagnerrp:

heh, i was thinking the same thing when i read that

[07:54:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: if you had a directory path for the job queue, would it make sense to just have separate, per-job log files and maybe rotate them or something

[07:54:56]

sphery:

(rotate out after a few days?)

[07:55:38]

wagnerrp:

im not sure i like the idea of mythtv getting its own log rotater

[07:55:52]

sphery:

or let users rotate them?

[07:56:01]

sphery:

(users/distros :)

[07:56:14]

sphery:

basically, have them set up a logrotate rule or whatever

[07:57:01]

sphery:

writing job logs into backend logs (or mythjobqueue logs) interlaced with other running jobs' logs, makes it /very/ difficult to follow

[07:57:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, fair enough

[07:57:19]

sphery:

so I would say we pretty much /should/ be using different files for each job

[07:57:28]

sphery:

but don't know how other will feel about it

[07:57:56]

sphery:

I'm expecting enough complaints when I put in mythtvd, and users get a mythtvd log, a mythbackend log, and a mythjobqueue log

[07:58:14]

wagnerrp:

perhaps have a jobname.pid.log or something

[07:58:14]

sphery:

so, when adding a bunch of job log files...

[07:58:26]

wagnerrp:

and have the jobqueue delete it when that entry gets flushed out of the database after a couple days

[07:58:27]

sphery:

anyway, the dir path will be easily retrievable

[07:59:05]

sphery:

yeah, that's what I was thinking when I said "rotate"

[07:59:16]

sphery:

(and, yeah, I realize that's not really rotating :)

[07:59:43]

wagnerrp:

separate log and err?

[07:59:52]

wagnerrp:

or mixed

[08:00:01]

sphery:

you mean stdout and stderr?

[08:00:06]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[08:00:10]

sphery:

I'd say mixed

[08:00:43]

sphery:

then with the new log implementation--still gotta get beirdo to finish that TODO of mine--different log handlers can add additional control over that

[08:00:55]

sphery:

basically in all other apps, if we specify a log file, it's mixed

[08:01:07]

sphery:

only separate when written to stdout/stderr

[08:01:28]

sphery:

(original stdout/stderr, that is)

[08:02:35]

sphery:

trying to decide whether to send an e-mail to list...

[08:02:38]

sphery:

probably shouldn't

[08:02:41]

sphery:

but really want to

[08:03:00]

sphery:

btw, wagnerrp, I loved your Atom e-mails!

[08:03:15]

sphery:

guess I'm supposed to have soem wine, too

[08:05:42]

Beirdo:

yeah,that's a project I should put to the forefront

[08:06:01]

wagnerrp:

?

[08:06:08]

wagnerrp:

winerator?

[08:06:14]

wagnerrp:

youre not supposed to refrigerate wine

[08:06:53]

sphery:

heh, no, he means my rewrite the logging code TODO

[08:06:54]

sphery:

:)

[08:07:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the amazing thing is the cost of the ARMs compared to the Atoms

[08:07:21]

sphery:

I should do the "remove all db logging" part for him... that's primarily a grep/delete job, so even I could do it :)

[08:07:38]

sphery:

aren't arms dirt cheap in comparison

[08:07:41]

wagnerrp:

a standard dual core A9 is ~$20/unit

[08:07:46]

sphery:

yeah

[08:07:57]

sphery:

how much is a dual core atom?

[08:08:07]

Beirdo:

Arm Cortex-A8 is pretty nice :)

[08:08:15]

wagnerrp:

cheaper, just as powerful, much lower energy consumption.... the ONLY reason to get an Atom is for Windows support

[08:08:28]

sphery:

agreed

[08:08:48]

sphery:

that said, IMHO, Windows is a good reason to not get Windows

[08:08:52]

wagnerrp:

the Atoms are $40-$75 depending on the chip

[08:08:56]

sphery:

wow

[08:08:58]

Beirdo:

I still like mine for the firewall, but I could replace that with a beagleboard :)

[08:09:02]

sphery:

Intel prices

[08:09:21]

sphery:

$5 for chip, $70 for the Intel Atom brand

[08:09:23]

justinh:

CPUs which are made of millions of atoms are way better than just one solitary atom though :P

[08:09:27]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: well the problem is that the Atom took over (for the windows support), so you cant purchase a comparable ARM board

[08:09:40]

Beirdo:

sure I can. beagleboard :)

[08:09:56]

Beirdo:

it just won't have a case

[08:09:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:10:22]

** justinh repeats the "Just because you *can* do something, doesn't mean it's ever a good idea" mantra **

[08:11:10]

wagnerrp:

the beagleboards are a bit anemic for $150

[08:12:04]

wagnerrp:

128MB of memory doesnt really cut it for a stock linux system

[08:12:22]

justinh:

heh yeah if beagleboards were like $40 or so..

[08:13:43]

Beirdo:

but for a firewall :)

[08:14:08]

Beirdo:

oh, and they have a new version, not sure if it had more RAM

[08:14:34]

wagnerrp:

128MB isnt enough if youre running standard programs

[08:14:40]

Beirdo:

bah

[08:14:44]

wagnerrp:

bind9, isc-dhcpd, openssh

[08:14:51]

Beirdo:

I ran a full mail server in that

[08:14:58]

wagnerrp:

bind sucks down memory

[08:15:23]

Beirdo:

I ran my mail server in 64MB for quite a while

[08:15:41]

Beirdo:

you just don't install all the GUI cruft :)

[08:15:50]

wagnerrp:

i have no gui cruft

[08:17:30]

wagnerrp:

the kernel, named, ssh, snmpd, dhcpd, nut.... starts out with ~150MB free out of 256MB when i boot up, and hits steady state around 50MB free after a month

[08:19:46]

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[08:21:32]

Beirdo:

yeah, the beagleboard-xM has 512MB

[08:22:39]

Beirdo:

and the pandaboard has 1G (and Cortex-A9)

[08:22:44]

Beirdo:

for $174

[08:28:31]

wagnerrp:

only 100mbps ethernet?

[08:28:33]

wagnerrp:

booo

[08:28:48]

Beirdo:

like you'd need more

[08:29:13]

wagnerrp:

well neither of them would do well for a firewall

[08:29:22]

wagnerrp:

only one ethernet port

[08:29:41]

Beirdo:

and one wireless

[08:29:54]

Beirdo:

on the panda

[08:29:55]

wagnerrp:

who wants wireless

[08:29:58]

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[08:30:04]

Beirdo:

which is exactly what I have on my firewall now

[08:30:39]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats the one advantage of the ALIX boards over these other embedded systems

[08:31:16]

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[08:32:08]

wagnerrp:

they cost as much, for a fraction of the power

[08:32:08]

wagnerrp:

but you get multiple ethernet ports, and mini-pci slots for manly wireless

[08:32:25]

wagnerrp:

argh argh... more power! http://store.netgate.com/ALFA-AWPCI085H-80211 . . . -P59C26.aspx

[08:32:29]

wagnerrp:

:)

[08:33:15]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:33:53]

Beirdo:

I think I have a couple like that in my crap box

[08:34:12]

Beirdo:

came in my old laptops

[08:34:16]

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[08:34:53]

wagnerrp:

surely not like that

[08:35:14]

wagnerrp:

more likely theyre rated for tens of mW

[08:35:28]

wagnerrp:

low hundreds at the most

[08:35:37]

Beirdo:

yeah, they are probably within legal specs :)

[08:36:10]

justinh:

hmm looks like EIT data is screwed up since the time change

[08:36:21]

wagnerrp:

im going to bed...

[08:36:36]

Beirdo:

bed sounds like a smart plan for me too

[08:36:56]

justinh:

except it isn't on most channels. boo

[08:40:24]

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[08:47:35]

justinh:

gah. BBC news has 'click' listed at 0530 but I know it starts at 0430

[08:48:30]

justinh:

oh that channel isn't using EIT

[08:49:33]

Beirdo:

OK, REALLY... bed. rrdtool won't compile for my ARM9 board?

[08:49:57]

Beirdo:

I think I need to rebuild the compiler to do IEEE floating point in software or somehting lame

[08:51:11]

Beirdo:

sleep beckons

[08:51:35]

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[08:51:44]

** justinh clears out the epg data for that channel & tries mythfilldb again **

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[10:46:09]

justinh:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/news/a3 . . . -appeal.html HAHAHAHA

[10:48:15]

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[11:08:36]

mhedi:

hi

[11:09:49]

mhedi:

after the installation of mythtv (make install) a message appears:

[11:10:06]

mhedi:

Protocol version or token mismatch (frontend=63/3875641D,backend=56/??)

[11:10:13]

mhedi:

what can I do?

[11:10:45]

mhedi:

please help me

[11:10:48]

mhedi:

!!

[11:10:50]

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[11:11:34]

justinh:

install the same version of mythtv throughout the system. Simple

[11:12:20]

mhedi:

I have one version

[11:15:31]

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[12:20:06]

justinh:

just had a very frustrating experience trying to print a photo at an instant photo booth from my android phone. Grrr.

[12:20:40]

justinh:

bluetooth failed, cos a) the file was too big b) all the machines had the same ID

[12:21:05]

justinh:

using the SD card failed because... the phone hadn't formatted the card as FAT. Gah. Bloody linuxy *crap*

[12:24:47]

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[12:34:09]

justinh:

mhedi: FWIW if you had only one version installed then mythtv wouldn't be complaining about a protocol mismatch

[12:34:45]

justinh:

if you're trying to build from source, maybe you still have old libraries hanging around – maybe left over from packages

[12:35:10]

justinh:

the 'which' command is your friend

[12:35:31]

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[13:25:35]

mhedi:

ok I'll try this

[13:26:36]

justinh:

well, mounted the phone, copied everything off the SD card to my desktop machine, formatted it from Windows,copied everything back.. phone sees it all fine, windows now sees the card as FAT formatted.. erased the backed up data from my machine.. and all is good. Why the hell wasn't the card FAT formatted in the first place? :-\

[13:26:54]

justinh:

mhedi: e.g. which mythfrontend

[13:26:56]

justinh:

or which mythbackend

[13:28:24]

justinh:

if either of those point to /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin/ – depending on the prefix you used during ./configure .. then you've likely got old stuff stuck there

[13:44:11]

JEDIDIAH__:

what format was the SD card in?

[13:44:29]

mhedi:

I fixed the problem

[13:44:35]

justinh:

windows said it was 'RAW' but could still read files off it, so presumably the phone was translating it

[13:44:38]

JEDIDIAH__:

it doesn't have to be a linux format to cause rouble.

[13:44:41]

mhedi:

it's a problem of version

[13:45:21]

mhedi:

I have a version of mythfrontend that's already exist

[13:45:30]

justinh:

JEDIDIAH__: people at work with the same model of phone said windows reported their SD cards as 'FAT' when mounted via the phone

[13:45:44]

justinh:

mhedi: that's what I said it'd likely be

[13:46:10]

JEDIDIAH__:

various linux using vendors have bee sued by microsoft over using FAT.

[13:46:34]

justinh:

same model of phone, bought later?

[13:46:45]

justinh:

Maybe they got a license after they made mine

[13:46:53]

justinh:

anyway, was darn annoying

[13:47:21]

justinh:

lucky I have the tech chops to sort it out – but sad that I even had to

[13:47:23]

JEDIDIAH__:

could be worse... your phone could have no SD slot to begin with.

[13:47:46]

justinh:

it insisting on a PIN for BT accesses is annoying though

[13:48:08]

JEDIDIAH__:

I remember when apple users were capable of formating their own removable media...

[13:48:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

'-)

[13:48:13]

justinh:

and sometimes seeing wifi points as 'open' when they're not.. grrr

[13:49:04]

justinh:

like 'free' wifi in a bar where they change the password every day – my phone was seeing it as open wifi :-\

[13:49:20]

justinh:

wouldn't even ask for the password but failed to connect anyway

[13:49:38]

justinh:

cue lots of sniggering from iphone using colleagues. grr

[13:50:12]

justinh:

I can still be snug though.. my phone isn't costing me an arm & a leg :)

[13:50:17]

justinh:

*smug

[13:54:33]

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[13:55:56]

mhedi:

I had an error when I compiled the mythtv with --desable-x11 options

[13:56:13]

mhedi:

mythdisplay.cpp:81: error: ‘MythXDisplay’ was not declared in this scope

[13:56:13]

mhedi:

mythdisplay.cpp:81: error: ‘disp’ was not declared in this scope

[13:56:14]

mhedi:

mythdisplay.cpp:81: error: ‘OpenMythXDisplay’ was not declared in this scope

[13:57:16]

justinh:

yeah you kinda really need X

[13:57:22]

justinh:

won't run without it

[13:57:28]

mhedi:

yes

[13:58:04]

justinh:

no running mythfrontend in a framebuffer, but you've failed to listen when folks told you that before

[13:58:17]

mhedi:

i wont to run it without x11

[13:58:38]

justinh:

you CANNOT

[14:00:09]

justinh:

it used to work like that a very long time ago, but a lot has changed since then

[14:00:50]

justinh:

maybe version 0.16 would work without X11

[14:01:05]

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[14:02:22]

justinh:

I think whoever was maintaining directfb output stopped wasting their time a long time ago :)

[14:02:26]

quicksilver:

do frontends have compatibility with old backends, or do versions have to match?

[14:02:40]

justinh:

quicksilver: always have to match

[14:02:44]

justinh:

no mixing allowed

[14:02:58]

justinh:

cue whining from the aisles

[14:03:04]

** quicksilver nods **

[14:03:31]

quicksilver:

no biggy. I just keep meaning to try out the OSX frontend and I Was wondering latest-and-greatest vs. version which exactly matches my backend.

[14:03:41]

quicksilver:

Although I should also upgrade my backend sometime.

[14:04:15]

justinh:

wow. google for 'mythtv directfb' and hits come from as recently as 2005. LOL

[14:05:05]

mhedi:

my problem that I won't to port MythTV for CE4100 that's way I don't need X11 to be configured on it

[14:05:22]

mhedi:

it needs only DirectFB

[14:05:27]

justinh:

then your problem, mhedi will be that you will never get mythtv to work on that platform

[14:05:55]

justinh:

or maybe you could, if you fixed mythfrontend to work with directfb first

[14:06:10]

justinh:

something tells me that goal is way out of your league

[14:06:49]

justinh:

anyway without access to the video decoding hardware of the boxee box, which is what I believe you're trying to make this for – the CPU will be too under powered to do much anyway

[14:07:00]

justinh:

so that's another good reason to give up now

[14:07:21]

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[14:08:22]

justinh:

oh wait.. it's not the boxee box.. but some similar junk

[14:09:22]

justinh:

it doesn't matter either way. You won't be getting mythtv to run on that any time soon

[14:09:48]

justinh:

or if you do, you'll find it was a waste of time because without video decoder hardware access it's all way too slow

[14:10:34]

justinh:

it's not that I enjoy raining on anybody's parade – it's definitely a nice idea to have small, lightweight & cheap hardware to act as a mythtv frontend – but the *reality* is different

[14:11:54]

justinh:

the last time mythtv worked without X11 was probably at least 4 years ago

[14:12:58]

justinh:

you might as well come here saying you won't to port mythtv to run on a Texas Instruments scientific calculator

[14:15:08]

clever:

now this is interesting, 1 frame every 10 seconds

[14:15:15]

clever:

causing some neat defects in mplayer

[14:15:35]

justinh:

clever: maybe you can talk some sense into the guy

[14:15:52]

clever:

its just slides

[14:16:06]

clever:

one frame per slide

[14:16:54]

clever:

its better then youtube videos rendering one frame so much they pegg the cpu, ive seen music on youtube do that all the time, music with a single frame of video

[14:19:30]

quicksilver:

really you should blame the codec for that.

[14:19:45]

quicksilver:

a smart codec would recognise that and not waste CPU or bandwidth.

[14:19:53]

** justinh would sooner blame flash **

[14:20:01]

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[14:20:06]

clever:

in the video i'm doing, i dont think the codec is that smart

[14:20:07]

quicksilver:

well I think flash is part of the codec problem in that case, yes.

[14:20:08]

clever:

they just reduced the fps to insanely low levels

[14:20:22]

quicksilver:

reducing the fps is, sort-of, being smart :)

[14:20:35]

quicksilver:

but some codecs/profiles have limits on how low you're allowed to put the fps

[14:20:37]

clever:

and its having impacts on redrawing (alt+tab), osd, and seek tables so far

[14:20:39]

quicksilver:

I believe.

[14:20:54]

clever:

A: 323.5 V: 330.0 A-V: -6.457 ct: 0.000 0/ 0 0% 0% 3.3% 0 0 84%

[14:21:18]

clever:

the V: key only updates every 10 seconds, causing it to falsely appear like the audio is lagging

[14:21:43]

clever:

http://online.itp.ucsb.edu/online/plecture/bmonreal11/ the 3gp video

[14:23:36]

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[14:29:00]

justinh:

heh apparently the boxee box is that silly CE4100 thing – as is the google TV & some others

[14:29:29]

justinh:

doesn't alter the fact that trying to make mythtv work in a framebuffer is a futile plan

[14:30:17]

justinh:

whether you "won't" it to or not :P

[14:44:13]

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[14:48:45]

iamlindoro:

you want get ahead with kind of attitude, mister

[14:50:18]

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[15:13:01]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: what if the --version didn't output the compiled in options, or if it said something like http://pastebin.com/5cE3dJY5

[15:13:40]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: I just don't see people getting away from copy and pasting it in the body of reports

[15:14:01]

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[15:14:35]

skd5aner:

or maybe take it out of --version and have a --compiled flag that outputs that data

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[17:13:40]

** wagnerrp gets some strange morbid pleasure in explaining to people why they shouldn't use Atoms **

[17:18:18]

wagnerrp:

kormoc_afk: seems youre making additional work for me with the jobqueue rewrite... :P

[17:18:53]

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[17:22:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, might be nice if we had some concept of 'current position in the queue' then we could just manipulate that. maybe that is just an in-memory list or maybe it's a new field in the table.

[17:23:10]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i had thought of a new field for ordering in the table

[17:23:23]

wagnerrp:

but honestly, thats a bit clumsy

[17:23:41]

wagnerrp:

and would only be needed to make order persistent in the event that the scheduler is restarted

[17:23:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, better to just have an in-memory list in the job scheduler.

[17:23:51]

wagnerrp:

right

[17:24:24]

wagnerrp:

right now, the jobs are all stored in a QList, so it would be trivial to move stuff around within there

[17:25:00]

wagnerrp:

writing up a response currently

[17:28:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

cool.

[17:28:34]

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[17:30:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

I figured if we could get that setup in the HTML setup, then it would make things easier on you because you wouldn't have to waste time on mythtv-setup. I would like to start moving things out of there once we have working replacements. maybe that's an "immediately after 0.25" plan unless the JobQueue rewrite necessitates setup changes in which case we could disable mythtv-setup for that and point users at the web interf

[17:30:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

ace.

[17:30:27]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the UI is what ive been dreading most about this whole thing

[17:31:52]

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[17:33:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

I'm not a HTML/CSS expert, but I'm glad to help with that side of it. might even need to make a JobQueueJob datatype that the service could return so we could have a JobQueueJobList of JobQueueJob instances then we could delete, reorder, etc. that part of things extends beyond basic setup though, so it may be better left to the frontend or mythweb. it depends on how much non-setup type stuff we want in the backend web i

[17:33:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

nterface. I think there are benefits to having a 'management' interface for things like manipulating the JobQueue, etc..

[17:34:53]

wagnerrp:

ive got a JobQueueInfo datatype set up that i intend to use

[17:35:06]

wagnerrp:

its intended to be multipurpose when i start reworking the database tables

[17:35:34]

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[17:35:47]

wagnerrp:

so certain fields would be populated for a job definition, others for an actual job, etc...

[17:36:11]

wagnerrp:

similar to how ProgramInfo can work for both a guide entry, and a full recording

[17:38:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok.

[17:39:14]

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[17:40:21]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: was curious if you saw my suggestion earlier regarding --version output?

[17:40:57]

wagnerrp:

i think the compile options are in there for good reason, and should stay

[17:41:30]

wagnerrp:

i think sphery's idea is the best, add some additional field to allow attachment of the version info at ticket creation

[17:41:38]

wagnerrp:

similar to how it asks you if you want to attach a file

[17:46:51]

skd5aner:

as an attachment, or as a textbox?

[17:46:58]

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[17:47:14]

skd5aner:

I can see people still failing to physically create a file containing the version output

[17:47:19]

wagnerrp:

you would paste it into a text box, it would generate a file and add it as an attachment

[17:47:29]

skd5aner:

yea, that would likely work

[17:49:27]

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[17:49:32]

kormoc:

You don't have to repost

[17:49:41]

wagnerrp:

grkblood13: the original HDFury did HDMI to RGB

[17:49:57]

wagnerrp:

RGB being VGA, and capable of up to 2048x1536

[17:50:06]

wagnerrp:

clearly more 'HD' than even 'HD video'

[17:50:10]

grkblood13:

ok, so RGB analog will deliver 1080P?

[17:50:18]

kormoc:

Most traditional analog video sources are just SD, that is correct, but analog doesn't have to be. Consider the humble VGA connector to your monitor, it handles well be... yeah, what wagnerrp has said

[17:50:20]

kormoc:

grkblood13, yes

[17:50:23]

skd5aner:

yup

[17:50:27]

skd5aner:

Component

[17:50:30]

wagnerrp:

the HDFury2 can do RGB, or YPrPb

[17:50:41]

wagnerrp:

the latter being component, and what you will be using

[17:50:49]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR is not capable of handling an RGB signal

[17:50:59]

skd5aner:

Although, the HDFury is probably not what you really need/want anyway

[17:51:00]

wagnerrp:

nor are the component inputs on most video equipment

[17:51:04]

skd5aner:

you probably just care about the HDPVR

[17:51:23]

grkblood13:

i thought YPrPb was RGB

[17:51:27]

skd5aner:

but, we're just assuming here – you'd have to give more details about your specific situation to get better detailed advice

[17:51:52]

grkblood13:

im just trying to figure out if im going to lose any qulaity coming off my digital tv box

[17:52:09]

skd5aner:

Does your digital STB have component out?

[17:52:22]

skd5aner:

Red/Green/Blue RCA plugs

[17:52:22]

grkblood13:

D-A-D is a must because of encryption correct?

[17:52:28]

wagnerrp:

DAD?

[17:52:35]

skd5aner:

Digital Analog Digital?

[17:52:37]

grkblood13:

digital-analog-digital

[17:52:43]

wagnerrp:

ah, yes

[17:52:49]

wagnerrp:

assuming your content is in fact encrypted

[17:52:57]

grkblood13:

im guessing it is

[17:52:59]

skd5aner:

Well, depends -

[17:53:01]

grkblood13:

its comcast

[17:53:05]

skd5aner:

so...

[17:53:12]

grkblood13:

and its digital cable

[17:53:22]

wagnerrp:

check http://www.silicondust.com/support/channels

[17:53:23]

skd5aner:

the answer is "maybe" – but if your STB has component out, then it can output at SD and HD resolutions in anlog

[17:53:32]

grkblood13:

its better to assume it is and be prepared for it rather than find out later

[17:53:37]

wagnerrp:

put in your zip code, it will show you what channels are available unencrypted in your area

[17:53:55]

grkblood13:

cool will do

[17:54:06]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: that's if he wants to do QAM/ATSC... but doesn't impact if he wants to record directly from his comcast STB right?

[17:54:28]

skd5aner:

grkblood13: so, I'm assuming you're questio nwas about how do you record direclty from your comcast STB?

[17:54:44]

skd5aner:

if so, get an HD-PVR, and that's it... be done with it

[17:54:54]

wagnerrp:

well im saying if theyre in the clear, he wont need an STB or HDPVR

[17:54:56]

skd5aner:

you'll record whatever it is your STB outputs, at the same resolution

[17:55:05]

grkblood13:

yea, i just had a bad experience the other day

[17:55:09]

wagnerrp:

grkblood13: read http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[17:55:11]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: true, but that's not what I heard him asking

[17:55:21]

skd5aner:

anyway – I've got to run, good luck

[17:55:21]

wagnerrp:

it will outline your options

[17:55:33]

grkblood13:

well, im interesting in mythtv also

[17:56:13]

grkblood13:

I'm going to be building a media computer shortly I think I'm goign to put mythtv on it

[17:56:16]

grkblood13:

interested*

[17:57:21]

wagnerrp:

also see http://mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview

[17:59:25]

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[18:00:48]

HRearden:

Anyone know why turning on digest security in mythweb would make preview images disappear? (Also happen to be running not-on-port-80 if it matters...) Gentoo, 24-fixes.

[18:00:48]

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[18:07:06]

Seeker`:

is there a way of clearing the "previously recorded" list for a recording schedule so that it will rerecord old deleted episodes?

[18:07:36]

wagnerrp:

yes, you can do that in Manage Recordings

[18:07:43]

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[18:07:47]

wagnerrp:

you can go into the list of old recordings, and mark them for re-record

[18:07:54]

wagnerrp:

or you can go into the list of upcoming, and force a record

[18:10:16]

kormoc:

HRearden, works for me (tm)(r)

[18:10:58]

HRearden:

yeah... you using digest or basic?

[18:11:03]

kormoc:

digest

[18:11:23]

Seeker`:

wagnerrp: thanks

[18:11:42]

kormoc:

there should be no difference to mythweb. There's only a few spots we muck with auth info and that's not one of them

[18:11:48]

HRearden:

Going to turn up some logging levels and see if I can see what's happening.

[18:12:12]

HRearden:

The html source doesn't even include a picture at all – really strange.

[18:13:04]

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[18:13:34]

kormoc:

you can turn those off

[18:13:43]

kormoc:

perhaps you toggled that? it's the pixmap setting

[18:14:53]

HRearden:

No. Comment out security they are fine, comment it back in, everything is OK except for them. Oddly, the flash player even works, which wasn't working yesterday because the previews weren't there (yesterday was missing url_fopen setting...).

[18:15:12]

kormoc:

changing auth changes your stored settings

[18:15:41]

kormoc:

We store session data based on auth info or cookies if no auth

[18:18:15]

HRearden:

what setting? Is it in the web frontend or DB or where?

[18:18:28]

kormoc:

it's in mythweb

[18:18:31]

kormoc:

something about pixmap

[18:18:37]

HRearden:

nevermind... found it...

[18:19:16]

HRearden:

Ahh. Fixed. Thanks.

[18:19:22]

** kormoc tips his hat **

[18:19:57]

HRearden:

Must have defaulted to off somehow or something. Very odd. Don't EVER recall being in that settings screen tab in mythweb before.

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[22:00:35]

stuartm:

just a heads up for those of you in the UK using the Waltham transmitter, they just moved a mux without warning and you will need to delete that frequency and rescan

[22:00:39]

stuartm:

a full scan

[22:00:41]

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[22:54:27]

Twiggy2cents:

What order do the opengl deinterlacers go in from basic to more advanced?

[22:58:50]

kormoc:

in the order they're presented in the gui

[22:59:08]

Twiggy2cents:

okay thanks

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[23:16:19]

Twiggy2cents:

Is it so hard to get a good deint?

[23:16:24]

wagnerrp:

why is it that nobody /ever/ uses units of power and energy correctly?

[23:17:03]

Twiggy2cents:

I have a more than capable processor and enough memory. But 1080i tears on all (doesnt even work on some x2 hw's)

[23:17:17]

Twiggy2cents:

Its a 2.66 core2duo. Is that not good enough?

[23:17:32]

Twiggy2cents:

I let it use both cores too

[23:17:46]

wagnerrp:

you said you were using the opengl deinterlacers

[23:17:52]

Twiggy2cents:

yes

[23:19:13]

wagnerrp:

so... theyre using the opengl shaders

[23:19:23]

wagnerrp:

meaning all your CPU power and memory are completely meaningless

[23:19:30]

wagnerrp:

its all your GPU doing the work

[23:20:22]

Twiggy2cents:

So what is the difference between hw deints and non hw? The gpu decodes and the processor deints?

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[23:22:25]

wagnerrp:

correct, the 'hw' deinterlacers are written in shader language

[23:22:33]

wagnerrp:

while the non 'hw' deinterlacers just run on the CPU

[23:26:39]

Twiggy2cents:

wow yadiff uses alot of resources

[23:29:32]

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[23:39:27]

NewBuntu81:

In mythtv, when you play a program and decide to stop watching and hit ESC to go back to the menu, how long should it take? My screen goes black for a long time (>30 minutes). I'm trying to figure out if it is a common issue or something with my hardware/setup.

[23:39:48]

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[23:40:29]

wagnerrp:

teardown should not take more than a few seconds

[23:41:31]

NewBuntu81:

If you are outputting video from the computer to a newer LCD type tv with vga input, how large of a video card should you need? 256 MB? 128? 512? 1 GIG?

[23:42:02]

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[23:44:26]

wagnerrp:

all youre looking to do is store a couple frames in memory, and do transforms on them

[23:44:33]

wagnerrp:

and a full frame is going to be all of 3MB

[23:44:47]

wagnerrp:

or perhaps 8MB depending on how its being stored

[23:45:10]

wagnerrp:

anyway, 128MB should be plenty, it all depends on shader power

[23:45:18]

wagnerrp:

and honestly, i dont know how much you need

[23:45:23]

wagnerrp:

ive never used the opengl deints

[23:50:37]

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[23:57:18]

kormoc:

>30 minutes?

[23:57:28]

kormoc:

I'd have killed the frontend long before then

[23:57:53]

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