| Wednesday, March 2nd, 2011, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:27] | judget: | ok thanks again |
| [00:01:11] | judget: | FYI the version 24158 is what seems to appear in synaptic with my ubuntu 10.04 LTS |
| [00:01:23] | wagnerrp: | thats fine, its still not 0.23 |
| [00:01:45] | wagnerrp: | you need to enable the mythbuntu repo, following the directions provided in sphery's link |
| [00:01:56] | judget: | maybe I am reading the results of mythfrontend --version? |
| [00:02:02] | judget: | incorrectly |
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| [00:03:09] | mycosys: | iamlindoro – apologies for misunderstanding the scope of Qt as an dev environment, and its capitalisation. I must say the misunderstanding is extremely pervasive |
| [00:03:36] | iamlindoro: | mycosys, no worries, was just worth clarifying — it's a pet peeve of one of the other Myth devs that I've inherited ;) |
| [00:03:50] | iamlindoro: | Nothing to apologize for :) |
| [00:04:22] | mycosys: | seems a fair one to have :) |
| [00:04:41] | sphery: | judget: no, you're reading it right... wagnerrp is saying that what you have isn't 0.23. It's a pre-release snapshot of unstable/development MythTV from before 0.23 was released. It was buggy enough you /really/ need to upgrade to 0.23.1 or 0.24 using the Mythbuntu repositories, as explained at the link I provided. |
| [00:04:58] | kormoc: | I know I like qT as a framework. QT is pretty awesome and makes me glad to write qt applications. |
| [00:05:12] | judget: | so when i am checking versions I should pay attention to the API line for the version? |
| [00:05:34] | sphery: | API line is meaningless... it's the branch and revision that are important |
| [00:05:34] | mycosys: | lol kormoc – priceless |
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| [00:05:39] | judget: | yea i will do the .24 version i am just trying to understand and document as i go with this project |
| [00:06:28] | ptriller: | Mythtranscode messes up the audio, because the audio encoding changes after the first 3 minutes in the original file .. |
| [00:07:18] | ptriller: | anything I can do about that ? |
| [00:08:58] | sphery: | ptriller: no idea, but how does the encoding change? |
| [00:09:18] | sphery: | # of channels, bitrate, format? |
| [00:09:44] | sphery: | just wondering what types of changes they're doing in broadcast streams in the real world |
| [00:09:56] | ptriller: | sphery, the beginning is plain stereo, then it becomes Dolby Digital because its a HD move and the beginning is just news and ads ... |
| [00:10:27] | sphery: | I've noticed that some large percentage of mythtranscode lossless transcodes result in crashes for me, lately |
| [00:10:34] | sphery: | might be for similar reasons |
| [00:11:05] | sphery: | my solution is to a) not transcode and b) if there's a really good reason to transcode (which I haven't found for myself, yet), use some other tool (like handbrake) |
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| [00:11:45] | ptriller: | sphery, the file is 9 Gb for 1:30 of movie.. a bit much for me |
| [00:11:58] | sphery: | only reason I would transcode, before, was when I put a 1hr end late on recordings to try to catch them all even with sports-broadcast-related (and similar) delays to network programming |
| [00:12:28] | sphery: | would just chop off the end... but with mythtranscode mostly not working, I find it's much easier just to waste the space on disk |
| [00:12:37] | mycosys: | wouldnt be hard to write a wrapper bash script for something like handbrake to get it to do transcode as a user job would it? |
| [00:12:43] | ptriller: | sphery, heh, yea, probably. |
| [00:12:48] | sphery: | most of my shows are 5+GB / hr |
| [00:13:03] | sphery: | and that's what the $60 – $80 2TB HDDs are for :) |
| [00:13:07] | wagnerrp: | mycosys: better to use the python wrapper already written |
| [00:13:13] | mycosys: | i feel like a dill that this has only just cooured to me |
| [00:13:16] | wagnerrp: | even better to just buy more hard drives |
| [00:13:31] | sphery: | +1 on hard drives |
| [00:14:05] | mycosys: | wagnerrp – where woudl i find this – would love to transcode from the mp2 broadcast to mp4 on my other drive, only have 3tb and no spare sata in the machine |
| [00:14:33] | wagnerrp: | http://mythtv.org/wiki/Transcode_wrapper_stub |
| [00:14:47] | judget: | is there a way to translate the MythTV version that shows when i do a frontend --version into something that makes sense? |
| [00:15:11] | wagnerrp: | judget: what version does it say you have? |
| [00:15:12] | mycosys: | what OS are you using judget? |
| [00:15:13] | sphery: | heh, not so much |
| [00:15:34] | mycosys: | grabbing the package name and version may be more informative |
| [00:15:44] | sphery: | mycosys: and there's also nuvexport |
| [00:16:04] | judget: | ubuntu 10.04 LTS (studio) version shows 24158 |
| [00:16:31] | sphery: | which is the pre-release snapshot of an old, broken version of unstable/development MythTV from before 0.23 |
| [00:16:38] | wagnerrp: | judget: they you are running unstable mythtv, 400 revisions prior to the 0.23 release |
| [00:16:40] | sphery: | just do the auto-builds thing |
| [00:17:04] | sphery: | auto-builds... just do it! |
| [00:17:20] | ** sphery prepares for the trademark infringement lawsuit ** | |
| [00:17:21] | judget: | I will do that but I apologise for my curiosity |
| [00:17:47] | wagnerrp: | judget: the new build versions are done using 'git describe', which has a more meaningful output |
| [00:18:01] | sphery: | judget: curiosity is ok, but what you don't know is that mythtv revision info is currently a huge mess because of switching version-control systems |
| [00:18:06] | sphery: | so it's not really user-friendly |
| [00:18:20] | sphery: | but on the bright side, mythbuntu does the right thing |
| [00:18:20] | wagnerrp: | its the branch, its the last tag on the branch, the number of revisions since that tag, and the shortened hash for the last commit |
| [00:18:25] | judget: | I am an old TV engineer almost 40 years in Televison and tend to like to know what I am doing |
| [00:19:16] | wagnerrp: | for instance... v0.25pre-80-gedc72d7 |
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| [00:22:21] | judget: | when u say git describe is that when we would use a git repo? |
| [00:22:52] | wagnerrp: | no, its what all mythtv builds should be using to determine the version string |
| [00:23:04] | wagnerrp: | whether done from a git checkout or not |
| [00:23:36] | judget: | ok let me start over to check an existing installed version which command should I be using? |
| [00:25:44] | wagnerrp: | mythbackend --version |
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| [00:26:22] | judget: | ok and which line of the response tells me the version? |
| [00:26:37] | wagnerrp: | the one that says 'MythTV Version: ' |
| [00:26:58] | mycosys: | btw guys – sure this isnt said enough – thank you |
| [00:27:00] | judget: | right but none of those lines display 23.0, 23.1 24.0 etc |
| [00:27:21] | mycosys: | mythtv has been a pita over the years at times, but there is NOTHING else like it – it is amazing |
| [00:27:22] | wagnerrp: | correct, because you are using an old version, where all it provides is the SVN revision number |
| [00:27:31] | judget: | instead they dispolay a 5 character number line 26863 or 24158 etc |
| [00:28:03] | judget: | i have to say that aprt from this silliness i am very impressed with mythTV |
| [00:28:04] | wagnerrp: | the new version string, produced by 'git describe', is more readily understandable |
| [00:28:50] | judget: | right but that works against a git repositary not an installed verison correct? |
| [00:29:14] | wagnerrp: | you dont run that command |
| [00:29:24] | wagnerrp: | the build script runs that command when mythtv is being built |
| [00:29:30] | wagnerrp: | and it is hard coded into the binary |
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| [00:33:14] | judget: | soooo sorry to be a pia but as a mere mortal user besides depending on what synaptic tells me how can i tell the version on mythtv |
| [00:34:11] | wagnerrp: | you were saying the 5-digit number didnt make sense, i was merely telling you that mythtv no longer uses that 5-digit number |
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| [00:36:09] | judget: | ok so when i install the version 24 and run the frontend — version command i will get a response that makes mnore sense? |
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| [00:37:33] | wagnerrp: | if you install a recent build of 0.24, then your version will be something like v0.24-190-ga90df239 |
| [00:38:01] | wagnerrp: | which is the last tag, revisions since the last tag, and hash of the current revision |
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| [00:46:57] | judget: | ok so anyway to get started with my the first thing to do should be to goto the mythbuntu.org/auto-builds and setup the repos rather than depending on what synaptic has for me opn my system? |
| [00:49:24] | mycosys: | once you setup that you will have newer stuff avail in synaptic |
| [00:50:01] | judget: | right and like i said i am documenting this for future reference |
| [00:50:22] | judget: | it is part of by Ubuntu Linux Vidiots guide :) |
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| [00:51:11] | mycosys: | is part of the mythbuntu wiki too :) |
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| [01:31:18] | judget: | are the mythtv-plugins for frontend, backend, or both? |
| [01:31:47] | wagnerrp: | plugins are only used on the frontend |
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| [01:36:18] | seagullarity_: | mythtv is no longer detecting my hdpvr via PnP...it makes me manually add the card....consequently, it's not working either |
| [01:37:13] | wagnerrp: | mythtv doesnt detect hardware, the linux udev system detects hardware and loads the necessary drivers |
| [01:38:03] | wagnerrp: | mythtv simply enumerates the available V4L devices, and filters for those that appear to be HDPVRs |
| [01:38:31] | wagnerrp: | if mythtv-setup cannot find your HDPVR, then chances are you have some driver or hardware problem independent of mythtv that needs to be resolved |
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| [01:53:46] | seagullarity_: | okay |
| [02:01:29] | Wicked: | hmm. i changed a rule to over ride something and it fubared everything |
| [02:01:33] | Wicked: | any ideas? |
| [02:02:10] | tgm4883: | Wicked, I'm going to assume that there is more story to that |
| [02:02:20] | Wicked: | i told one recording to record anyway tonight(right now) and it shuffled around the recordings and now mythtv is showing it wants to record shows tonight that where not there |
| [02:02:25] | tgm4883: | otherwise, yes, when you change the rules of gravity, things can get fubared |
| [02:03:08] | iamlindoro: | when you force one decision by the scheduler, all other decisions are affected by it |
| [02:03:16] | tgm4883: | Wicked, were they possibly set to record at a later time because of a conflict, now that you told something else to record now the conflict no longer exists? |
| [02:03:21] | iamlindoro: | no choices made by the scheduler are made in isolation |
| [02:03:36] | Wicked: | yea |
| [02:03:38] | Wicked: | i know |
| [02:03:46] | sphery: | iamlindoro: but on the list... ;) |
| [02:04:11] | Wicked: | but this one seems to have really messed it up. tonight the show dirty jobs and bizare foods where both new episodes at 9pm |
| [02:04:28] | iamlindoro: | both of those shows run incessantly |
| [02:04:37] | Wicked: | bizarre foods was set to record instead of dirty jobs. so i told dirty jobs to over right |
| [02:04:42] | Wicked: | *ride |
| [02:04:47] | iamlindoro: | meaning by forcing whatever show to record, myth was forced to make the decision to record those shows at a later time |
| [02:04:57] | Wicked: | it then shuffled around everything and now old episodes of the office are recording |
| [02:05:07] | Wicked: | yea. myth did not choose the wisest choice. |
| [02:05:18] | iamlindoro: | Myth *did* choose the wisest choice |
| [02:05:20] | Wicked: | as the office is not new episodes until thrur |
| [02:05:23] | iamlindoro: | based on the input *you* gave it |
| [02:05:24] | sphery: | mythtv chose to record exactly what you told it to record |
| [02:05:36] | sphery: | MythTV is no Watson! |
| [02:05:36] | Wicked: | well. i tell mythtv to only record new episodes of the office |
| [02:05:47] | Wicked: | and its now recording old episodes of the office |
| [02:06:04] | Wicked: | and the weird thing is...i never changed the office rules. |
| [02:06:04] | sphery: | mythbackend --printsched (to pastebin, please) |
| [02:06:54] | sphery: | and check for multiple The Office recording rules |
| [02:07:19] | tgm4883: | nice |
| [02:07:27] | Wicked: | http://pastebin.com/fLaJBZQB |
| [02:07:38] | tgm4883: | sphery, thats everything that the scheduler is doing for 14 days? |
| [02:08:06] | Wicked: | i did force stop the office from recording |
| [02:08:12] | iamlindoro: | This is a classic case of "messing with input, channel, and show priorities without having read how they work" |
| [02:08:51] | sphery: | tgm4883: yep |
| [02:09:27] | Wicked: | well...i dont see how myth decided to start recording old episodes of the office |
| [02:09:27] | tgm4883: | i'm unsure how the print schedule works, but i'd venture that "The Office – "Product Recall" 52 TBS" shouldn't ever show up on TBS |
| [02:09:35] | Wicked: | when i tell myth to only record new episodes |
| [02:09:44] | iamlindoro: | tgm4883, why? TBS runs the office nonstop |
| [02:09:54] | tgm4883: | iamlindoro, I mean if you just wanted new episodes |
| [02:10:02] | Wicked: | right |
| [02:10:06] | sphery: | Wicked: which The Office episodes are recording |
| [02:10:08] | tgm4883: | iamlindoro, I probably have set all my schedules up the incorrect way |
| [02:10:10] | iamlindoro: | tgm4883, He may think he's told myth that, but he hasn't |
| [02:10:19] | Wicked: | sphery, two tried to record. sec and il lcheck |
| [02:10:21] | tgm4883: | iamlindoro, yea it looks set to always record |
| [02:10:27] | tgm4883: | any channel |
| [02:10:30] | Wicked: | safety training |
| [02:10:42] | tgm4883: | I usually set mine to anytime on NBC HD |
| [02:11:00] | Wicked: | unless the "record only new episodes" does not "only record new episodes" |
| [02:11:24] | sphery: | I see several repeat episodes and a couple Previous recording |
| [02:11:25] | tgm4883: | Wicked, I think it would depend on if your listing data marks shows as old? |
| [02:11:26] | Wicked: | tgm4883, i have both hd and sd inputs. |
| [02:11:28] | sphery: | don't see safety training on there |
| [02:11:31] | Wicked: | so i left it as any channel |
| [02:11:43] | Wicked: | tgm4883, the office was not set to record until thur |
| [02:11:45] | tgm4883: | ah I don't have overlapping SD and HD |
| [02:11:47] | sphery: | if you cancelled/stopped the recording, this printsched isn't going to say anything useful |
| [02:11:47] | Wicked: | until this |
| [02:12:18] | Wicked: | i did cancel the recording because i dont want old episodes of the office |
| [02:12:48] | sphery: | but I'd guess that either the show is not marked as a repeat or it was a different recording rule |
| [02:13:00] | tgm4883: | Wicked, well then it would be difficult to tell why the backend scheduled it |
| [02:13:04] | sphery: | or someone messed with your listings data out from underneath the scheduler |
| [02:13:08] | Wicked: | sphery, is was not set to record |
| [02:13:13] | Wicked: | until everything messed up |
| [02:13:57] | sphery: | ok, you have no The Office episodes that will record in the next 2 weeks |
| [02:14:05] | tgm4883: | Wicked, this is where in my job I get to say. Show me where it's messed up, cause it looks like it's working as designed |
| [02:14:08] | sphery: | (and it seems to air about 2000 times in that period) |
| [02:15:08] | tgm4883: | which again, is why i'm against "any time, any channel" if you only want new recordings |
| [02:15:28] | tgm4883: | but maybe I should read the scheduler pages that iamlindoro referenced |
| [02:15:38] | sphery: | I'm a fan of any time any channel |
| [02:15:48] | Wicked: | is there a way to list any over rides? |
| [02:15:59] | sphery: | and teaching mythtv which episodes you've already seen (Never record) or filtering on new episodes only |
| [02:16:08] | sphery: | I always do the former, never the latter |
| [02:16:23] | tgm4883: | sphery, yea that probably makes more sense |
| [02:16:31] | sphery: | Wicked: they're O type recordings |
| [02:17:13] | sphery: | looking through the first 1000 matches, I don't see any overrides |
| [02:17:13] | Wicked: | nothing is showing up as a o recording |
| [02:17:17] | sphery: | yeah |
| [02:17:23] | Wicked: | only L 1 3 and C |
| [02:17:35] | sphery: | T = type |
| [02:17:53] | sphery: | A = any/all, C = Channel, |
| [02:17:59] | sphery: | and that seems to be pretty much all you have |
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| [02:19:47] | sphery: | anyway, not sure what happened, but since it's in the past and has been cancelled, it will be hard to figure out |
| [02:20:04] | sphery: | I need to investigate when the issue still exists :) |
| [02:20:09] | Wicked: | yea i have no idea what mythtv tried to do...but it fubar'ed my 9–10 recording slot. |
| [02:20:25] | sphery: | it tried to do what you said it should do :) |
| [02:20:26] | Wicked: | last time i trust it to over ride a show hehe |
| [02:20:36] | Wicked: | it tried that...then some more lol |
| [02:21:03] | Wicked: | because the office got messed up and i didnt do anything to it...and the office is off the air for a while |
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| [02:21:26] | Wicked: | but oh well. |
| [02:21:28] | sphery: | Well, we do plan to have MythTV automatically do the right thing--even when you tell it to do the wrong thing. It's on the roadmap for sometime after the technological singularity, and shortly before Judgement Day. |
| [02:22:38] | sphery: | seriously, there is a good explanation for what happened. Unfortunately, finding that explanation will be a challenge |
| [02:23:38] | sphery: | if it happens again, I'm happy to look over the printsched output (but best if you do mythbackend -v schedule --printsched ) |
| [02:23:55] | sphery: | but I need to see the scheduler in the "wrong" state to figure out what's happening |
| [02:25:39] | Wicked: | yea |
| [02:26:00] | Wicked: | i appreciate your help and im sure mythtv did do what it was programmed to do. |
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| [02:28:38] | sphery: | yeah, probably just some additional factor that we're not noticing |
| [02:30:05] | Wicked: | usually is :) |
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| [02:31:49] | ServerSage: | Grrr, nothing like chasing down problems for 3 days only to find out that a cable splitter went bad. |
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| [02:38:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | ServerSage: Splitter or amplifier? |
| [02:43:58] | sphery: | wagnerrp: NCIS from Feb 22... Gibbs' monitor is all flaky, and McGee says, "Probably just need to restart your e-mail client." Now that's something I wouldn't have thought to try. |
| [02:51:32] | ServerSage: | J-e-f-f-A: Splitter. |
| [02:52:20] | ServerSage: | J-e-f-f-A: I didn't even think to try it simply because I have never had one go bad in all the years I've been watching TV. |
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| [02:56:08] | clever: | sphery: its the same in every movie, the video signal goes whacky when somebody hacks it |
| [02:56:14] | clever: | its like they target the video card first |
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| [02:59:22] | sphery: | heh |
| [02:59:54] | sphery: | usually ncis isn't as bad about computer stuff as some of the others |
| [03:00:05] | sphery: | but they've had a couple things that weren't so good |
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| [03:04:50] | Twiggy2cents: | sphery, what did you think of the last supernatural? |
| [03:05:03] | sphery: | it was awesome |
| [03:05:10] | Twiggy2cents: | yeah, it was very creative |
| [03:05:14] | sphery: | I always love their wacky episodes |
| [03:05:33] | sphery: | I also like how they made fun of Sera being "new" |
| [03:05:36] | Twiggy2cents: | I like how they killed the creator and director(?) |
| [03:05:38] | Twiggy2cents: | yeah |
| [03:05:41] | sphery: | yeah, that too |
| [03:06:07] | sphery: | and, "Why would anyone want to watch our lives?" "Well, according to the interviewer, not many people do." |
| [03:06:12] | Twiggy2cents: | lol yeah |
| [03:06:27] | sphery: | and killing Misha/Cas |
| [03:06:43] | sphery: | he actually tweeted those tweets during the show, too |
| [03:06:47] | Twiggy2cents: | really? |
| [03:06:50] | sphery: | yeah |
| [03:06:54] | Twiggy2cents: | lol thats funny |
| [03:07:09] | Twiggy2cents: | I cant believe his voice is so different |
| [03:07:23] | Twiggy2cents: | It seems like it would be hard to keep that voice when it isnt natural |
| [03:07:26] | sphery: | yeah, very different from the character |
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| [03:12:46] | Wicked: | hmm. im trying to test my firewire connection. so i goto the schedule...found a show i want to test record...and hit record...it started recording but on my SD input. |
| [03:12:57] | Wicked: | i dont see where i specify the input |
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| [03:13:17] | sphery: | you can't, really |
| [03:13:29] | sphery: | closest way is to use Live TV and switch input until you get to the right one |
| [03:14:05] | sphery: | or you can edit the firewire channel to have a different callsign from all others and then do a channel record |
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| [03:14:36] | Newbuntu81-2: | 28 updates, 74 MB. Is Ubuntu now as bad as Windows for updates? LOL |
| [03:14:52] | Wicked: | ah. so if i just want to test the hd(firewire) input....and i goto the schedule...theres no real way to specify what input to record from....from the schedule window |
| [03:15:14] | Wicked: | updates in linux are not like updates in windows |
| [03:15:30] | [R]: | Newbuntu81–2: would you rather they not update antyhing? |
| [03:15:32] | sphery: | Newbuntu81–2: well, it is Tuesday... Isn't that how Windows does it? Patch Tuesday. |
| [03:15:43] | Wicked: | i update daily |
| [03:16:25] | Wicked: | https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2jT3r0ZUiF . . . c-update.jpg |
| [03:16:27] | Wicked: | ;) |
| [03:16:58] | Twiggy2cents: | why does it seem so complicated to set up a vpn server. All I want to do is access mythweb from other places(my isp doesnt allow any incoming connections) |
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| [03:24:41] | wagnerrp: | sphery: why cant shows use more subtle product placement... for example the big dodge charger in NCIS bullying the puny lexus |
| [03:26:09] | sphery: | heh, haven't gotten there, yet |
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| [03:26:15] | sphery: | will keep an eye out |
| [03:26:27] | sphery: | was the monitor thing the bad hacking you were talking about? |
| [03:26:58] | wagnerrp: | that the one with the video game developer? |
| [03:27:10] | sphery: | yeah |
| [03:27:24] | wagnerrp: | im talking about the scene at the end |
| [03:27:31] | sphery: | oh, haven't gotten there, yet |
| [03:27:47] | sphery: | I thought the restarting e-mail client to fix monitor was it |
| [03:28:03] | wagnerrp: | no, thats just inane tech support |
| [03:28:12] | Newbuntu81-2: | R and sphery: Nah, I'm fine with updating it. I was just surprised to see so many updates. :-) |
| [03:28:42] | Newbuntu81-2: | Twiggy: use x11vnc, it works great. |
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| [03:28:53] | wagnerrp: | Newbuntu81–2: you should see it on gentoo, where you have to build all those packages |
| [03:28:53] | [R]: | Newbuntu81–2: thats because open source people actually CARE about fixing things |
| [03:29:41] | Newbuntu81-2: | No worries. I'm glad the patches are available. And so far I haven't had one take me out of commission, lol. |
| [03:30:33] | Newbuntu81-2: | But I guess now would be a great time to ask how the menu works...after you patch (i.e. kernel), the latest is at the top of the grub list at bootup. So if a patch messes me up, I suppose I can start working my way down the list to "roll back"? |
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| [03:49:00] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, bad hacking |
| [03:49:43] | sphery: | I also like how he needs to use MTAC's computers to shut down the "mainframe" |
| [03:49:57] | sphery: | after all, a PC just couldn't do it |
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| [04:00:47] | Newbuntu81-2: | I just watched The Office...it's so stupid it's funny. |
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| [04:18:58] | wagnerrp: | [R]: you watch undercover boss right? |
| [04:19:17] | [R]: | yup |
| [04:19:36] | wagnerrp: | well heres a good one |
| [04:19:48] | wagnerrp: | cincinnati mayor goes undercover in the cincinnati police department |
| [04:20:09] | Twiggy2cents: | is a local ip in a vpn different than your lan ip? |
| [04:20:27] | wagnerrp: | Twiggy2cents: depends |
| [04:20:30] | [R]: | wagnerrp: odd |
| [04:20:43] | Twiggy2cents: | wagnerrp, typically. |
| [04:21:04] | wagnerrp: | clients WILL have a separate local IP and VPN IP |
| [04:21:34] | wagnerrp: | the server may route clients onto the same subnet, and just use its own local address |
| [04:21:53] | wagnerrp: | or it could run an independent subnet with an independent address for the VPN clients |
| [04:21:54] | Twiggy2cents: | okay |
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| [05:14:36] | mzb: | can anyone suggest to me why 4x1TB drives in raid5 (for eg) would be better/worse than 4x1TB drives in a storage group? |
| [05:14:48] | mzb: | (other than the obvious 1TB lost in raid5) |
| [05:15:03] | mycosys: | use a fair bit more power |
| [05:15:05] | [R]: | where is wagnerrp when you need him |
| [05:15:14] | mycosys: | potentially slower |
| [05:15:29] | mycosys: | cant use ea drive for a seperate thing which is potentially faster |
| [05:15:35] | mzb: | more power? That's not a concern, but I'd expect the difference to be marginal at best |
| [05:15:39] | mycosys: | checksumming takes time |
| [05:15:45] | mzb: | yep |
| [05:15:46] | wagnerrp: | mzb: because with raid5, all drives will be writing all the time, and you end up with one filesystem |
| [05:16:00] | wagnerrp: | when you have multiple recordings going to the same filesystem, you end up with fragmentation, and loss of performance |
| [05:16:12] | [R]: | i swear, you're like a magic genie |
| [05:16:12] | mzb: | that's an advantage, other than the latency (I guess) |
| [05:16:14] | mycosys: | he puts it so much more elegantly lol |
| [05:16:15] | [R]: | i snap my fingers, and you appear |
| [05:16:36] | mzb: | I run nightly defrag |
| [05:16:43] | wagnerrp: | independent drives doing independent IO will always be faster than RAID |
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| [05:17:04] | wagnerrp: | with the advantage that you can spin down the unused drives |
| [05:17:05] | mzb: | sure |
| [05:17:26] | mzb: | not sure if that is an advantage in this case, but I get the point |
| [05:17:30] | wagnerrp: | honestly... my opinion is to build your raid, use it as an archive |
| [05:17:38] | wagnerrp: | keep a couple old smaller drives around for recording |
| [05:17:48] | wagnerrp: | cut the commercials, copy them over |
| [05:18:06] | wagnerrp: | anything you dont care about, leave on the spares until they get expired off, or just delete it |
| [05:18:20] | mycosys: | i wouldnt even bother – would put em in lvm rather than raid |
| [05:18:21] | mzb: | I've already got 3x1TB in r5 and 3x1TB in r5 |
| [05:18:42] | mzb: | but I'll have a 1TB left over when I convert my workstation to r10 |
| [05:18:46] | mzb: | (long story) |
| [05:19:02] | mzb: | so the choice is to either expand the 3x1TB, or to split it into 4 |
| [05:19:55] | mzb: | I have noticed issues occasionally under heavy load (eg: >5 simultaneous recordings + playback) where the frontend will actually freeze for a period, and then go back to the menu |
| [05:20:22] | wagnerrp: | 5 recordings plus playback should not be heavy load |
| [05:20:35] | mzb: | 720p? |
| [05:20:37] | wagnerrp: | that should be easily handled by even a single drive |
| [05:20:45] | mycosys: | it is – i do it |
| [05:20:47] | mzb: | combined MBD+FE |
| [05:20:50] | mzb: | agreed |
| [05:21:01] | mzb: | I've tried moving the sql database onto a spare drive (used for nothing else) which has improved it slightly ... but the freeze effect is still there |
| [05:21:17] | mycosys: | not even a fast drive either – samsung ecogreen f4 2TB |
| [05:21:28] | mzb: | I *think* it's something to do with missing files, but my attempts to cleanup haven't made a difference |
| [05:21:38] | wagnerrp: | yes, having SQL on the same drive as recordings is worse than having multiple recordings on the same drive |
| [05:22:09] | mycosys: | are you using vdpau mzb? |
| [05:22:13] | mzb: | no |
| [05:22:19] | mzb: | 8400gs |
| [05:22:27] | mycosys: | then enable it |
| [05:22:41] | mzb: | don't think I can on 8400gs |
| [05:22:47] | mycosys: | yes, you can |
| [05:22:59] | mycosys: | will be a lil limited in the deint options but that is all |
| [05:23:02] | mzb: | iirc it wasn't supported on that model (properly) |
| [05:23:08] | mzb: | oh ok |
| [05:23:10] | wagnerrp: | sure it is |
| [05:23:12] | wagnerrp: | ive got three |
| [05:23:22] | mzb: | tried enabling it before and had problems |
| [05:23:28] | mycosys: | there are actually 3 versions of the 8400gs btw |
| [05:23:32] | mzb: | k |
| [05:23:41] | mycosys: | g86, g98 and g218 |
| [05:24:05] | mycosys: | what problems did you have? |
| [05:24:31] | mzb: | oh, sorry looks like a 7600 GS ... my mistake |
| [05:24:42] | mzb: | nVidia Corporation G73 [GeForce 7600 GS] rev 161 |
| [05:25:08] | mycosys: | xvmc might help a lil but is a royal PITA |
| [05:25:10] | mzb: | not sure where I got the idea it was 8400 ... maybe that's what I _wanted_ to get ;) |
| [05:25:40] | mycosys: | personally – if you wanna make a diff to performance – lash out and spend $30 on a gt210 |
| [05:25:45] | mzb: | I've got it working nicely as is (in the playback department) ... but several months ago the freezing started |
| [05:26:10] | wagnerrp: | no, xvmc will not help |
| [05:26:20] | mzb: | so I moved off trunk to 0.24 |
| [05:26:32] | mzb: | I don't recall if I have it enabled or not |
| [05:26:46] | mzb: | (xvmc) |
| [05:28:05] | mycosys: | it is a PITA in a royal way anyway |
| [05:28:38] | mycosys: | did allow a 1.6GHz athlon XP to do HD playback years ago tho lol |
| [05:28:44] | mzb: | I have playback working fine, except for the freeze. CPU usage is low, disk usage seems fine ... it's just the freeze |
| [05:28:59] | mzb: | cpu is a s939 amd64 4400+ |
| [05:29:12] | mzb: | 2GB RAM |
| [05:29:23] | mzb: | 3x PCI DVB-T tuners |
| [05:29:30] | mzb: | 7–8 drives |
| [05:29:39] | mycosys: | u an aussie by any chance? |
| [05:29:43] | mzb: | :) |
| [05:29:49] | mycosys: | u3100 minis? |
| [05:29:54] | mzb: | pfft |
| [05:29:55] | mzb: | no |
| [05:30:00] | mzb: | PCI not USB |
| [05:30:15] | mycosys: | lot of pci jobs end up usb anyway |
| [05:30:28] | mzb: | no these are real PCI tuners |
| [05:30:37] | mzb: | DVB1000T (?) ... leadtek |
| [05:30:51] | mycosys: | usb has the teoretical advantage of removal from the RF noise of the pc, and a shorter analog signal path |
| [05:30:54] | wagnerrp: | meaning, they are a USB controller with USB tuners attached |
| [05:30:54] | mzb: | I use USB for other things ... not drives |
| [05:30:57] | mycosys: | *theoretical |
| [05:31:09] | wagnerrp: | built into a PCI cards |
| [05:31:26] | wagnerrp: | dont lie, there is no advantage |
| [05:31:44] | wagnerrp: | theyre just being cheap, so they can develop one set of drivers for a whole family of devices |
| [05:31:51] | mzb: | (or tuners) |
| [05:32:24] | mzb: | I started with USB tuners but generally found them unreliable, and they don't recover nicely from power failures |
| [05:33:28] | mzb: | I *could* put in a dual tuner I've got, but it uses internal USB and has the same issue (re power) |
| [05:33:29] | mycosys: | from my point of view wagnerrp as an electronic tech there is _theoretical_ advantage as i said – unlikely to see it |
| [05:33:51] | ** wagnerrp just has a deep seething hatred for USB ** | |
| [05:33:58] | mzb: | ditto |
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| [05:34:27] | wagnerrp: | it was nice as a low speed accessory bus |
| [05:34:28] | mzb: | by putting all the noise -outside- the computer ==> ie: near my nice clean aerial cables? .... no thanks |
| [05:34:30] | mycosys: | the u3100minis have a FANTASTIC reputation over here, they really do rock |
| [05:34:44] | mzb: | I've used one ... gave it to my dad |
| [05:34:49] | wagnerrp: | but when they started running high speed devices over it... it just didnt work well |
| [05:34:51] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, thunderbolt? |
| [05:35:32] | mzb: | as I say ... USB tuners don't survive (or recover) from power outages |
| [05:35:36] | wagnerrp: | aside from it being FO and ungodly fast... i really dont know much about thunderbolt/lightpeak |
| [05:35:39] | mzb: | and that sucks |
| [05:35:46] | mycosys: | mine always have |
| [05:35:57] | wagnerrp: | although i have to imagine they couldnt hit those speeds while being CPU driven like USB |
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| [05:36:27] | mzb: | how many years have you been running your MBE, and how many power outages have you had? |
| [05:36:53] | mzb: | (I mean the type where some drunken idiot runs into a power pole, or a tree takes out a line during a storm) |
| [05:37:13] | mzb: | I don't mean 'flicking off the switch at the wall' |
| [05:37:41] | mycosys: | have been using them about 3 years, and live in cessnock, bfore that barnsley. we dont need drunken idiots for power outages |
| [05:37:57] | mzb: | :) |
| [05:38:00] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: have you tried the new hardware profile stuff? |
| [05:38:46] | mycosys: | what else do you have running on the machine other than myth mzb? |
| [05:39:07] | mzb: | it's a dedicated machine |
| [05:39:13] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, negative. My arclight isn't new enough to use it |
| [05:39:33] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i just had to manually pull off iamli ndoro's site |
| [05:39:46] | wagnerrp: | having some difficulty with dbus/hal |
| [05:39:53] | wagnerrp: | namely, it cant access hal through dbus |
| [05:40:12] | mzb: | Debian Squeeze + mythtv-0.24 built from svn |
| [05:40:26] | mycosys: | mzb fair 1- also have a torrent client and a few other things on mine – saves having another server goin 24/7 – might hav been a clue there |
| [05:40:55] | mzb: | nah ... I have a 'comms' server for all that sort of stuff |
| [05:41:32] | RyeBrye (RyeBrye!~ryebrye@67.199.189.206) has quit (Quit: RyeBrye) | |
| [05:41:41] | mzb: | mythtv BE is dedicated, even to the point where *most* of the gigabit cabling is dedicated to mythtv as well |
| [05:41:54] | mzb: | comms has it's own 10/100 cabling |
| [05:41:57] | wagnerrp: | with HAL being deprecated by UDEV... im wondering if we should strip that stuff out |
| [05:42:14] | mzb: | (cheaper than having a 'smart' switch;)) |
| [05:42:19] | mycosys: | where abouts r u – just curoius? |
| [05:42:25] | mzb: | .tas.au |
| [05:42:31] | mycosys: | eeep |
| [05:42:33] | wagnerrp: | smart switch? |
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| [05:42:41] | mzb: | :) |
| [05:42:48] | wagnerrp: | not sure what most home users would have need for that |
| [05:43:06] | mycosys: | sounds like he uses it all to train on to me |
| [05:43:14] | mzb: | 'smart' as in 'internal qos' |
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| [05:43:23] | wagnerrp: | yeah, not sure what you would need that for |
| [05:43:28] | mzb: | mycosys: well spotted ;) |
| [05:43:41] | wagnerrp: | you shouldnt come anywhere near saturating gigabit with mythtv |
| [05:43:59] | mzb: | not during normal usage, no |
| [05:44:11] | wagnerrp: | i mean real time throughput is only going to be ~20mbps maximum |
| [05:44:30] | wagnerrp: | even fast forwarding under worst case, youre not going to use more than ~200mbps |
| [05:44:32] | mzb: | but if I'm moving large amounts of data around it's a different story |
| [05:44:53] | iconicflux: | I have a strange problem and hopefully someone here will have some ideas. I'm running .24 w/ hdhomerun tuners and it would seem that if tuner 0 is recording, when tuner 1 starts then tuner 0 stops recording.. and vice-versa. Both tuners have separate recording groups (tuner 1: groupa,groupb)(tuner 0: groupc,groupd) |
| [05:44:56] | mzb: | eg: if I'm doing network backups of a drive |
| [05:45:11] | wagnerrp: | but youre going to be moving large volumes of data around in a single socket transfer |
| [05:45:11] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, I don't have HAL, so my vote is strip away |
| [05:45:26] | wagnerrp: | your bulk data, and mythtv, are going to get scaled just the same by TCP |
| [05:45:38] | mzb: | keeping the comms separate avoids any possibility of problems, and also meant that (with careful planning) I could upgrade the wiring in stages |
| [05:45:48] | kormoc: | mzb, I backup over 802.11N just fine... |
| [05:45:52] | mzb: | hehe |
| [05:46:02] | mycosys: | have you played with lvm2 mzb? |
| [05:46:09] | wagnerrp: | iconicflux: youve got your HDHRs set up using IPs |
| [05:46:11] | mzb: | extensively, yes |
| [05:46:21] | wagnerrp: | remove those devices, add them back using autodetection of the device IDs |
| [05:46:34] | mycosys: | with the way it sounds like you use tech the pvmove function is awesome |
| [05:46:37] | iconicflux: | okay.. I'll try that.. although I didn't think I put an ip in there.. |
| [05:46:44] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: i installed it just for this, and it doesnt seem to be working |
| [05:47:02] | wagnerrp: | (actually, i installed dbus just for this too) |
| [05:47:30] | mzb: | my current favourite toy is encrypted lvm which is automatically unlocked if it's on MY network |
| [05:48:25] | ** kormoc raises an eyebrow ** | |
| [05:48:28] | mzb: | not on my network == won't unlock |
| [05:48:30] | mycosys: | sounds useful in the right env, i wouldnt have a use for it – not even using fde on my laptop (if they are bthat keen that they want to hardware hack the drive – will cost them more than any data i have is worth lol |
| [05:48:41] | kormoc: | mzb, so you're using SSID? |
| [05:48:47] | mzb: | nope |
| [05:48:52] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, yeah, I don't have dbus |
| [05:48:58] | mzb: | I use a 4KB keyfile |
| [05:49:17] | iconicflux: | wagner: looks like you're right. I think it automatically found the ip's and entered them so I never even noticed it. |
| [05:49:20] | kormoc: | so it goes to grab it from a different box? |
| [05:49:28] | mzb: | yes, via tftp |
| [05:49:43] | Beirdo: | muhhahahaha |
| [05:49:52] | mzb: | if not found it defaults to manual passphrase |
| [05:50:13] | Beirdo: | will have a 1951 General Electric fridge tomorrow |
| [05:50:21] | iconicflux: | wagner: should I have both of the inputs do channel scanning or only one? (I've seen some talk about only one) |
| [05:50:58] | kormoc: | Beirdo, and the outlet adapter and 400A fuse? |
| [05:51:17] | ** kormoc imagines this is gonna be a loud fridge ** | |
| [05:51:28] | mzb: | whole thing takes ~dozen lines in a single file and the initrd is automatically updated |
| [05:51:31] | mycosys: | and power hungry |
| [05:52:03] | kormoc: | mzb, having a file that unlocks the lock seems... wrong to me |
| [05:52:19] | mycosys: | esp using tftp |
| [05:52:32] | mzb: | it's the same as the "USB-key unlock" method ... it's just that the file is elsewhere |
| [05:52:32] | mycosys: | sftp would be less disconcerting |
| [05:52:47] | wagnerrp: | !seen jams |
| [05:52:47] | MythLogBot: | jams is here and has been idle for 6 hours 34 minutes 54 seconds |
| [05:52:53] | wagnerrp: | !seen iamlindoro |
| [05:52:54] | MythLogBot: | iamlindoro is here and has been idle for 3 hours 42 minutes 44 seconds |
| [05:53:04] | mycosys: | mzb – PM |
| [05:53:05] | kormoc: | mzb, sure, and I wouldn't trust the usb key |
| [05:53:06] | mzb: | it's not so much for a business environment, but more in case the gear gets nicked |
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| [05:54:54] | kormoc: | but if they steal both boxes, the key is available... |
| [05:56:03] | mycosys: | rfid key for the keyserver might fix that lol |
| [05:57:40] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: well HAL is deprecated in favor of UDEV |
| [05:57:55] | wagnerrp: | but switching to UDEV would mean freebsd, osx, and windows couldnt play |
| [05:58:24] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, try udev, if it fails, try hal? |
| [05:58:31] | wagnerrp: | freebsd would need its own devfs/devd implementation |
| [05:58:36] | wagnerrp: | osx would need, i dont know what |
| [05:58:43] | wagnerrp: | that is if you can even get hal running on osx |
| [05:58:50] | wagnerrp: | windows likely wont work anyway |
| [05:59:05] | iconicflux: | wagner: you rock man.. thanks a lot |
| [05:59:11] | iconicflux: | my wife was about to kill me |
| [05:59:47] | wagnerrp: | iconicflux: its a known issue, theres a ticket open on trac but since its fairly easy to avoid, no one has taken an interest in fixing it |
| [06:00:29] | iconicflux: | I saw the known issue but I was fairly certain that I didn't do it by IP. I think it autofilled the IP for me and I never noticed. |
| [06:00:55] | wagnerrp: | older versions of the lib may have detected the IP, and stored it |
| [06:01:02] | wagnerrp: | current ones use the device ID directly |
| [06:01:16] | wagnerrp: | had you recently upgraded to 0.24? |
| [06:02:29] | iconicflux: | yeah.. maybe 2 days ago |
| [06:03:19] | iconicflux: | my wife has a party this saturday and she wants this thing working so when I broke it.. well.. my option was to get it working or else.. :) |
| [06:03:37] | wagnerrp: | the issue is due to some problem between the early 2010 HDHR libraries, and mythtv's wrapper around it |
| [06:03:58] | wagnerrp: | we imported the new libraries prior to 0.23, but downgraded back due to this problem |
| [06:04:14] | Beirdo: | kormoc: Actually, supposedly runs quietly, from the original owner (now 94yrs old) in Shoreline |
| [06:04:36] | wagnerrp: | in the 0.24 release cycle, the HDHR techs took over and upgraded it again |
| [06:04:42] | wagnerrp: | the bug silently went right back in |
| [06:09:09] | iconicflux: | wagnerrp: bleh.. I'm like the other coders.. not annoying enough to fix.. :) |
| [06:09:24] | mzb: | the usb key is concealed ... not easy to find (compared to the computers!) and easy for me to remove |
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| [06:11:33] | iconicflux: | wagnerrp: here's another question... I can see all my channels in UPnP but none of the previous recordings.. any way to get the things I've already recorded? |
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| [06:11:37] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: it looks like the entirety of the dbus stuff is about 80 lines of python in smolt.py |
| [06:11:57] | wagnerrp: | i wonder if we could swap that for a system call wrapping lspci |
| [06:12:14] | wagnerrp: | nah, we would need more data than that... |
| [06:12:23] | wagnerrp: | maybe something that trawls sysfs |
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| [06:12:43] | wagnerrp: | iconicflux: mythtv does not serve 'channels' over UPNP |
| [06:12:49] | wagnerrp: | only scheduled recordings |
| [06:13:51] | iconicflux: | I figured out what's going on.. for whatever reason it opened hdhomerun even though I clicked on mythtv |
| [06:14:33] | wagnerrp: | i was not aware the HDHR exposed video streams over UPNP |
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| [06:15:15] | iconicflux: | yeah it does.. rather well too |
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| [06:15:37] | iconicflux: | shows the channel names correctly too |
| [06:16:01] | wagnerrp: | well at least mine doesnt... what firmware are you running? |
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| [06:17:17] | iconicflux: | 20101209-beta or something like that |
| [06:25:07] | iconicflux: | wagnerrp: so I can see the upnp server but not see any files on it. :( |
| [06:25:14] | wagnerrp: | jams: how insistent are you that we keep this upward compatible with the fedora stuff? |
| [06:25:45] | wagnerrp: | are you talking about mythtv's? |
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| [06:27:33] | iconicflux: | wagnerrp: yeah.. mythtv's upnp server shows up but no luck on using it. I think I'm going to stop in a second and get back to this tomorrow. |
| [06:27:47] | wagnerrp: | what are you using to access it? |
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| [06:28:09] | wagnerrp: | windows media center does some funkiness in regards to UPNP |
| [06:28:34] | wagnerrp: | rather than using the server's own directory structure |
| [06:28:41] | wagnerrp: | it decides to built its own |
| [06:28:49] | wagnerrp: | thoroughly hosing stuff up |
| [06:28:50] | petethepirate: | How can you update, preferably in the cli, channel icons? |
| [06:29:09] | iconicflux: | I was trying media player.. I'll try xbmc upstairs in a few minutes |
| [06:29:17] | wagnerrp: | petethepirate: through the channel editor, in mythtv-setup |
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| [06:29:59] | petethepirate: | wagnerrp: only one working keyboard, with no escape key. I've tried it several times and it only finds 3 icons. Is there a manual way of doing it? |
| [06:30:52] | wagnerrp: | honestly, ive not messed with channel icons in years |
| [06:31:35] | wagnerrp: | jams: right now, im thinking we keep the smolt server and data protocol |
| [06:31:42] | wagnerrp: | but write up our own system data grabbers |
| [06:33:07] | wagnerrp: | HAL interaction is going to prevent use on non-linux platforms |
| [06:33:18] | wagnerrp: | and is going to be an increasing issue even on linux problems |
| [06:33:24] | iconicflux: | thanks for the help wagnerrp.. have a nice night |
| [06:33:31] | iconicflux (iconicflux!~iconicflu@70.88.231.76) has quit (Quit: Leaving) | |
| [06:33:39] | wagnerrp: | (at least i cant get it running on gentoo, and kormoc doesnt want to mess with it either) |
| [06:34:38] | wagnerrp: | ill hold off for your thoughts before making any real plans |
| [06:34:48] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: if youve got any opinion... ^^^ |
| [06:35:18] | iamlindoro: | wagnerrp, It's already disabled for all platforms != linux |
| [06:35:40] | iamlindoro: | If you/whomever wants to rewrite it to use libudev, that works for me, that's what I said last night when I linked you pyudev |
| [06:36:11] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i remember you mentioning something about pyudev |
| [06:36:21] | iamlindoro: | There exists no cross-platform hardware profiler anyway, I personally say just write it to use udev and if options for windows/OS X present themselves, then fine |
| [06:36:47] | iamlindoro: | but as it is, the UI and update scheduler are disabled for platforms where it's not supported |
| [06:37:05] | iamlindoro: | I say we aim for baseline, working, serviceable linux support and go from there |
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| [06:42:10] | petethepirate: | wagnerrp: so you know I found them in four places. Three are in /home/userthatisrunningthefrontend/.mythtv one in channels, 3 in themecache, and fourth in /var/cache/mythweb/image_cache/ |
| [06:43:03] | wagnerrp: | the frontend, themecache, and mythweb are irrelevant |
| [06:43:07] | wagnerrp: | only the backend matters |
| [06:43:18] | Beirdo: | ... and nothing else matters.... |
| [06:43:26] | wagnerrp: | the backend stores the channel images, and serves them out to any client who wants them |
| [06:44:44] | petethepirate: | I think you misread the user part. /home/joe /home/jane /home/mythtv, whoever the user is. Mines a front/backend so I don't have any experience with separate systems. |
| [06:45:55] | wagnerrp: | point still stands, the only channel images that matter are in the ~/.mythtv/channels folder on the machine and user account running the master backend |
| [06:46:13] | wagnerrp: | the rest are all just copies |
| [06:46:40] | petethepirate: | wagnerrp: yeah that's the first one I listed. |
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| [06:47:45] | wagnerrp: | you cant just put an icon in there and expect something to happen |
| [06:47:53] | wagnerrp: | those icon files are referenced in the database for that channel |
| [06:48:08] | wagnerrp: | which is why they have to be added through the channel editor |
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| [06:49:59] | petethepirate: | Any idea why it wouldn't find icons for channels like cbs and abc? |
| [06:50:25] | wagnerrp: | try searching for a callsign, like WBQC |
| [06:50:37] | petethepirate: | Good idea, thanks. |
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| [06:55:23] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: looks like pyudev is in some pretty heavy flux |
| [06:57:11] | wagnerrp: | at least between the version available on gentoo (0.2 from june 28 2010) and current (0.8 from jan 08 2011) |
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| [06:57:20] | wagnerrp: | there are some decent sized API changes |
| [06:57:54] | wagnerrp: | might be able to poll a couple of the major distributions, and see what versions they use |
| [06:58:24] | MylesMan (MylesMan!~myles@50.93.5.121) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [06:58:29] | MylesMan: | hello all |
| [06:59:01] | MylesMan: | can som1 help me setup my frontend for remote ctrl via mythweb |
| [06:59:36] | MylesMan: | uz right now it says no frontends are configured on the remote kys screen |
| [06:59:40] | andreax (andreax!~andreaz@p57B95F1D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [07:05:08] | justinh: | you have to enable each frontend to be remote controlled over the network |
| [07:08:00] | markk_ (markk_!~mark@srv120.dedicated.netrino.co.uk) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| [07:08:55] | MylesMan: | thats in the general tab right? |
| [07:09:01] | justinh: | IIRC the setting is in mythfrontend utils/setup > setup > general |
| [07:09:08] | MylesMan: | cuz i did that |
| [07:09:24] | justinh: | yeah then when it's enabled you have to restart mythfrontend |
| [07:09:47] | MylesMan: | and when i goto the mythweb screen w/the green keyboard |
| [07:09:53] | Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@66.87.8.154) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | |
| [07:10:00] | MylesMan: | it says no frontends are setup |
| [07:10:08] | mycosys: | will myth still be able to play a recording and use it's comflag list if ht ercording is transcoded in place, say to xvid? |
| [07:10:29] | mycosys: | *ht=it |
| [07:10:35] | justinh: | if it's not enabled when you run mythfrontend the first time, then you change the setting, you need to restart mythfrontend for the change to take effect |
| [07:10:55] | justinh: | mycosys: why do you want to use something as awful as xvid? |
| [07:11:08] | mycosys: | about 3 times better compression |
| [07:11:19] | justinh: | yeah & it looks awful |
| [07:11:27] | mycosys: | it was just an example anyway |
| [07:11:56] | justinh: | anyway no, it's not a good idea to transcode files with the advertising intact |
| [07:12:12] | kormoc: | mycosys, who cares? Drives are cheap |
| [07:12:23] | mycosys: | not on a pension they arent kormoc |
| [07:12:34] | mycosys: | compression is free |
| [07:12:36] | justinh: | so watch & delete :-) |
| [07:12:38] | kormoc: | mycosys, you'll spend way more on electricity then on drives |
| [07:12:39] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [07:12:45] | kormoc: | (in the end) |
| [07:12:45] | justinh: | compression is not free |
| [07:12:51] | Beirdo: | #5501. Nice way to bug report. |
| [07:12:53] | mycosys: | machine is running anyway and is an amd |
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| [07:12:56] | Beirdo: | "It stopped working" |
| [07:13:01] | Beirdo: | thanks. |
| [07:13:04] | kormoc: | mycosys, it still goes into low power mode |
| [07:13:06] | mycosys: | athlon64 x2 5200+ |
| [07:13:12] | mycosys: | not well |
| [07:13:22] | justinh: | Beirdo: heh. I didn't know any better when I raised my first ticket either |
| [07:13:22] | kormoc: | better then you're giving it credit for |
| [07:13:29] | mycosys: | anyway – is there an answer to the question i asked? |
| [07:13:37] | justinh: | mycosys: yes. you shouldn't |
| [07:13:51] | mycosys: | not what i asked |
| [07:14:01] | justinh: | mycosys: it likely won't work is what I mean |
| [07:14:10] | justinh: | mycosys: you likely cannot make it work is what I mean |
| [07:14:26] | MylesMan: | do i have to portforward the 6****? |
| [07:14:33] | Beirdo: | justinh: yeah, I said in the commit that I had no way of testing it, so hopefully, people can at least give sane reports... like say WHAT broke and give the log entries, etc |
| [07:14:35] | mycosys: | ok – simpler question – will mythforntend play anything other than mp2 in its recodings files? |
| [07:14:41] | MylesMan: | or w/e the port number is |
| [07:14:41] | justinh: | mycosys: yes |
| [07:14:54] | mycosys: | what formats does it support there? |
| [07:14:56] | justinh: | MylesMan: that is so not a good idea |
| [07:14:57] | kormoc: | mycosys, yes, but your recorded seek would need rebuild and likely your commflags as well |
| [07:15:09] | justinh: | MylesMan: just about anything ffmpeg can cope with |
| [07:15:15] | kormoc: | mycosys, it's not really well known because we actively encourage you not to do that |
| [07:15:27] | kormoc: | mycosys, if you muck with the files, move them into mythvideo |
| [07:15:44] | mycosys: | cant really move the commflags with it :) |
| [07:15:49] | kormoc: | no, you can't |
| [07:15:52] | mycosys: | the metadata is a problem too |
| [07:15:57] | mycosys: | hence – KISS |
| [07:16:05] | justinh: | hence – don't transcode. KISS |
| [07:16:07] | kormoc: | and if you muck with the files, you won't get commflag info anyway, and you won't be able to seek in the video |
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| [07:16:33] | mycosys: | what formats does it support? |
| [07:16:38] | kormoc: | and mythvideo supports richer metadata grabbing for recording information if you give it the season/episode info |
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| [07:16:54] | justinh: | mycosys: it supports about everything ffmpeg supports |
| [07:16:56] | kormoc: | mycosys, practically anything but it'll all be broken similarly so don't report bugs |
| [07:17:03] | mycosys: | sweet |
| [07:17:07] | justinh: | jesus how many times do you have to say stuff before it sinks in today? |
| [07:17:22] | mycosys: | sunk in just fine |
| [07:17:28] | mycosys: | you dont recommend it |
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| [07:17:35] | mycosys: | implies it is possible |
| [07:17:39] | kormoc: | mycosys, serious about the no bug reports from you anymore bit. |
| [07:17:54] | mycosys: | dont think i have ever logged one on myth |
| [07:18:01] | kormoc: | don't waste our time running against your refusal to follow our recommended way |
| [07:18:21] | kormoc: | mycosys, when you can't seek in your video files (no forward, back, skip, etc), that is not a bug |
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| [07:18:30] | mycosys: | ok |
| [07:18:38] | kormoc: | bookmarks don't work, thumbnails likely won't work |
| [07:18:42] | kormoc: | etc |
| [07:18:52] | mycosys: | much more useful information |
| [07:19:08] | justinh: | mycosys: when you transcode a file, you invalidate mythtv's seek table for the file – which will invalidate any commflagging marks too. so after transcoding the seektable is rebuilt – and then commflagging can be done again – but may not work as well as the first time... and talk about a waste of cycles |
| [07:19:31] | mycosys: | can always run transcode before commflag |
| [07:19:57] | MylesMan: | how do i password protect mythweb |
| [07:19:59] | MylesMan: | ? |
| [07:20:01] | mycosys: | but if seek is broken across the board, it invalidates any advantage over mythvideo |
| [07:20:11] | justinh: | I wouldn't come crying about commflagging not working as well as before transcoding either |
| [07:20:15] | mycosys: | .htaccess mylesman |
| [07:20:28] | justinh: | MylesMan: .htaccess, htdigest ... |
| [07:20:32] | justinh: | see the wiki! |
| [07:20:50] | mycosys: | if ur on mythbuntu you can do it from Mythbuntu control center |
| [07:20:56] | justinh: | or if you run mythtv via one of the ready rolled distros, see their docs |
| [07:21:10] | Beirdo: | btw... uship.com is sool |
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| [07:21:38] | justinh: | sool? |
| [07:21:51] | Beirdo: | cool |
| [07:21:56] | mycosys: | kormoc/justinh – the seek problem is universal outside mpeg/nuv? |
| [07:21:56] | kormoc: | So Cool == Sool! |
| [07:21:57] | Beirdo: | stupid fingers |
| [07:22:18] | mycosys: | like i said – drives are only cheap if you ave money |
| [07:22:21] | kormoc: | mycosys, without doing a manual seektable rebuild, even if you move from mpeg2 to nuv or nuv to mpeg2 |
| [07:22:24] | justinh: | mycosys: commflagging needs the best quality files it can get its hands on for best results, so don't be surprised if it doesn't work as well on lower bitrate mpeg4 junk |
| [07:22:42] | kormoc: | mycosys, you really will spend more on electric over the next year then a larger drive |
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| [07:23:08] | justinh: | or just get less hung up about keeping it all – or you'll never have enough storage |
| [07:23:12] | mycosys: | would be rather surprised |
| [07:23:30] | mycosys: | 17c/kwh here – not too bad |
| [07:24:20] | justinh: | though I've started archiving stuff I record for my son in case he likes it – and all I'm doing is 'lossless' mpeg2 transcoding to throw away everything but the video & 1st audio track |
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| [07:24:44] | justinh: | looks great, takes next to no time too :) |
| [07:24:47] | Beirdo: | I think it's time to go to bed |
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| [07:26:11] | justinh: | Grrr @ f-spot. stupid crap thing. |
| [07:27:08] | justinh: | got a bunch of photos I need to edit quickly to correct for my awful scanner's deficiencies – so get a zoom view on to see the image bigger in the window, then move sliders to adjust the picture and... it zooms back out again. Stupid crap |
| [07:27:24] | kormoc: | your cpu idles at 24.4W and at 100% use uses 76W, if you spend an extra 16 hours per day at full bore transcoding, seek table rebuilding, etc, you'd spend an extra $50 this year. which is enough for a 1tb drive. |
| [07:28:03] | mycosys: | not here it isnt |
| [07:28:29] | mycosys: | but either way – it would have been a lot easier just to get the info up front |
| [07:28:45] | justinh: | users never know what's best for them :-P |
| [07:28:47] | kormoc: | the info isn't well known, because people try it, find it's complex and broken and give up |
| [07:28:48] | mycosys: | people use linux in great part because it allows informed choice |
| [07:28:59] | justinh: | users never know what's best for them :-P |
| [07:29:00] | kormoc: | mycosys, you could have just tried it... |
| [07:29:21] | justinh: | maybe commflagging a transcoded file will work just fine for you.. or maybe not |
| [07:29:35] | justinh: | maybe the commflagger won't even *work* on an xvid or whatever file |
| [07:29:51] | mycosys: | just as well i asked though isnt it – if it is very broken then it would be more time consuming than doing manula cutfiles, the thing i was trying to avoid |
| [07:29:54] | justinh: | it's likely not even been tested on anything but .nuv & mpeg files |
| [07:29:54] | kormoc: | I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a pile of old 1tb drives for $25 or less per drive. I ditched all my 1tb drives awhile ago, waiting to ditch the 2tb ones as soon as I can |
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| [07:30:38] | justinh: | IMHO you could have tried it by now, the time we've wasted chewing the fat about it |
| [07:30:39] | kormoc: | justinh, h264 |
| [07:30:47] | kormoc: | it's well tested with h264 |
| [07:31:00] | justinh: | oh yeah.. from HD-PVR |
| [07:31:10] | kormoc: | aye |
| [07:31:21] | justinh: | still... not the whole gamut of stuff ffmpeg supports though eh ;-) |
| [07:31:29] | justinh: | so it's a big fat YMMV |
| [07:31:32] | mycosys: | so seek would be well tested with h264 too? |
| [07:31:42] | kormoc: | you'd still have to rebuild the table |
| [07:31:43] | justinh: | no not seeking. COMFLAGGING |
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| [07:31:55] | kormoc: | justinh, no seeking without a valid seek table |
| [07:32:06] | justinh: | if you change anything about the recorded file you have to rebuild the seektable as a *minimum* |
| [07:32:37] | justinh: | if you use mythtv's own internal transcoding (and good luck with that if you're changing formats) it'll do that for you |
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| [07:37:42] | justinh: | FWIW if you're aiming to keep stuff forever it's well worth going to the effort of making manual cuts. Or just buying a 2nd hand DVD |
| [07:39:17] | justinh: | it's easy to think you're saving money when you've spent the whole of an afternoon cutting & transcoding – only to find out the audio is out of sync – so you have to mess with the encoder again. Then you start to figure maybe your time is worth more than a cheap box set costs |
| [07:41:46] | mycosys: | yup – hence not seeing the manual cutlist as worth the time |
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| [07:42:46] | mycosys: | like i said – if it was practical to transcode to mp4 keeping the commflag list, that would have been awesome, even if it took soem setting up |
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| [07:42:57] | mycosys: | if it is very broken it isnt worth my brain time |
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| [07:44:53] | justinh: | if transcoding didn't break the seektable maybe it'd be a different tale |
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| [07:47:58] | mycosys: | is anybody working on that? 9m from now i may just have the skill to put a hand in |
| [07:48:14] | justinh: | no |
| [07:48:38] | mycosys: | sounds like a fair amount of people would like such? |
| [07:48:44] | justinh: | nope |
| [07:49:10] | mycosys: | if no, why would one of you have said many have tried and given up doing it? |
| [07:49:19] | justinh: | sigh |
| [07:49:33] | kormoc: | many being 10's of people |
| [07:49:47] | justinh: | because of the way the seektable works, it's dependent on stuff like keyframes in the recorded file |
| [07:49:49] | kormoc: | over 6 years |
| [07:50:01] | justinh: | so when you transcode, the positions of all that stuff moves around |
| [07:50:29] | justinh: | the way it works allows mythtv to have *very* accurate position seeking |
| [07:50:49] | justinh: | and I for one like that.. and would like to keep it that way |
| [07:55:56] | justinh: | if you could solve the problem of transcoding messing up the seektable etc – *without* also breaking accurate position seeking, go for it |
| [07:56:35] | mycosys: | would seem possible, tho nontrivial, for a transcoder to track keyfram changes and alter the seektable accordingly? |
| [07:57:04] | justinh: | maybe. maybe not, but that's the same as rebuilding the seektable after transcoding anyway |
| [07:57:39] | justinh: | mythcommflag --rebuild does that |
| [07:57:46] | wagnerrp: | well, its slightly faster, since you dont have to spend those extra 2–3 minutes after a 6-hr transcode scanning the file for keyframes |
| [07:58:29] | justinh: | but I'd have thought it'd be quite invasive to the transcoder to make that sort of change |
| [07:59:08] | wagnerrp: | probably wouldnt be that difficult to add in a 'tell()' every time you started a new keyframe |
| [07:59:16] | mycosys: | might be a fun project in the hols at the end of the year tho |
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| [07:59:44] | justinh: | I know what I'd rather do as a fun project. Anything else! ;-) |
| [08:00:03] | mycosys: | dont know the languages myth uses – but learning c this year. been years since i did any real coding |
| [08:00:08] | justinh: | c++ |
| [08:00:10] | wagnerrp: | mycosys: the point is that youre going down a path often traveled, and abandoned |
| [08:00:20] | mycosys: | i appreciate that |
| [08:01:03] | wagnerrp: | since many before you have decided its cheaper to just buy the hard drives and controller cards, rather than spend so much time programming a new transcoder |
| [08:01:05] | mycosys: | i am the sort of nut that enjoys repurposing hardware, but arthritis and EDS is making that hard |
| [08:03:23] | floppyears: | hi guys, I"m running into some problems when trying to watch live tv ota in mytht |
| [08:03:26] | floppyears: | v |
| [08:03:38] | floppyears: | I recompiled mythtv 0.24 using the profile debug |
| [08:03:46] | floppyears: | could somebody take a look at these logs: http://pastebin.com/WTiF83fR ? |
| [08:03:48] | ** wagnerrp goes back to sleep ** | |
| [08:04:06] | floppyears: | it is the frontend that is crashing as soon as it tries to record the tv show :( |
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| [08:11:43] | justinh: | so don't watch live tv. Simples! |
| [08:16:57] | floppyears: | justinh: I don't really watch tv, but other people in the house are ready to kill me because of mythtv :( |
| [08:17:10] | justinh: | heheheh |
| [08:17:18] | justinh: | you mean, because of you. lol |
| [08:18:34] | floppyears: | haha |
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| [08:54:01] | wondra: | O exalted MythTV gurus, I have a problem again. I need to use mythtranscode with resizing, but I'm getting terrible resized-interlaced-picture artifacts. |
| [08:54:18] | justinh: | so you should deinterlace while you transcode |
| [08:54:28] | wondra: | I wanted to add a deinterlace filter and found out, that there is a long open bug on that not being implemented. |
| [08:54:37] | justinh: | heh |
| [08:55:01] | justinh: | there will be a recurring theme today: transcoding.... YMMV, so it's probably not worth bothering |
| [08:56:28] | wondra: | I tried a script called mythnuv2mkv.sh, but it uses mencoder and is twice as slow as mythtranscode even after tweaking. |
| [08:56:37] | wondra: | ..and doesn't honor cutlists. |
| [08:56:56] | justinh: | see? recurring theme! |
| [08:57:17] | wondra: | someone said that earlier? |
| [08:58:19] | justinh: | IMHO mythtv could just do away with transcoding for good – other than the 'lossless' |
| [08:58:27] | justinh: | the lossless one – I like that one :-) |
| [08:59:18] | wondra: | I like it for its job management. Without it, I'd have to learn some cluster-batch-computing software. |
| [08:59:43] | justinh: | I don't keep much of what I record, so don't have much need of it :-) |
| [09:00:36] | justinh: | so no, no sympathy for transcoding problems here :D |
| [09:00:56] | wondra: | I actually need it to view video on my laptop. It has 800x600 screen and a video controller with 2.5MB memory and overlaying. If you do some math, you see that 720x576 doesn't fit in the memory, but 640x480 does :-) |
| [09:01:07] | justinh: | ROFL |
| [09:01:35] | justinh: | sounds like you need to invest in a better laptop |
| [09:02:02] | justinh: | the myth about linux being better than windows for older hardware may be true in some cases, but not this one |
| [09:02:02] | wondra: | No sir, someone needs to repair transcode with filters. Meanwhile... |
| [09:02:48] | justinh: | so use some other transcoder then, maybe ffmpeg with all those lovely commandline options. Mmmmm |
| [09:03:07] | justinh: | oh but then you'll lose the cutlist... |
| [09:03:18] | wondra: | I noticed trat if I trascoded 16:9 content to 640x368, there were no artifacts. That is a reduction in lines about 1.5x. I could use that. What resizing algorithm does mythtv use? |
| [09:03:33] | justinh: | probably just skips lines |
| [09:03:47] | wondra: | now I'm wathing a 4:3 series though. |
| [09:04:38] | wondra: | it's not nearest neighbor. the artifact is the worst type of combing – wavy vertical lines. |
| [09:04:58] | justinh: | yeah that'll happen when you arbitrarily throw lines away |
| [09:05:41] | justinh: | when you're just chucking lines away it's way better to halve the line count with interlaced material |
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| [09:06:57] | wondra: | that's true. should it also work with dividing by 1.5? |
| [09:07:37] | wondra: | I could give you link to the result. The computer is a FTP server. |
| [09:07:39] | justinh: | I'd have thought not |
| [09:07:52] | justinh: | and FWIW I'm not going to go looking at your files |
| [09:08:13] | justinh: | I don't care for transcoding. I've wasted way too much of my life messing with values & still being disappointed with the results |
| [09:08:33] | justinh: | when I do turn one file format into another I use handbrake |
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| [09:09:53] | justinh: | handbrake is the nearest thing to transcoding for human beings I've ever seen :) |
| [09:09:55] | wondra: | I like avidemux. Probably has more settings [:] |
| [09:10:12] | justinh: | presets FTW |
| [09:10:33] | justinh: | you can waste *days* messing with settings & still being disappointed |
| [09:21:21] | justinh: | what I mean is, I've been there, I've done that. I decided life's too short |
| [09:22:06] | justinh: | my wife's old laptop sounds similar to yours, so I bought her a new one & threw the old one away. It wouldn't even make a very good paperweight |
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| [11:59:50] | Diverdude: | Is it possible to make playlist in mythvideo? |
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| [12:06:24] | wondra: | I wouldn't think so. |
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| [12:08:28] | mycosys: | diverdude – make, dont think so, use, certainly http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/349340 |
| [12:13:49] | Diverdude: | why must it be so hard |
| [12:14:00] | Diverdude: | why cant there just be a playlist functionality |
| [12:14:55] | wondra: | what do you want to do with it? |
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| [12:16:18] | Diverdude: | make a list of movies to play |
| [12:16:59] | mycosys: | can always just use mplayer's gui |
| [12:17:06] | wondra: | to just lie in the bed and watch a series whloe day without even pressing Enter? |
| [12:17:36] | Diverdude: | wondra, no |
| [12:18:15] | Diverdude: | wondra, but that is also a scenario where video-playlist can be useful |
| [12:19:46] | wondra: | I don't doubt it does, but still I don't see it. |
| [12:21:32] | mycosys: | spose it could be handy if you were very into short film |
| [12:21:52] | mycosys: | cue up half a dozen 5–10 minute shorts |
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| [12:46:56] | justinh: | when you're too lazy to even press a few buttons I think it's time to start getting out more, IMHO |
| [12:47:46] | justinh: | there's always the 'play folder' feature |
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| [12:52:35] | justinh: | heheheh now HERE is a great reason not to use an Atom system: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1541853/bios.jpg |
| [12:52:43] | justinh: | is that how you spell Windows? :-O |
| [12:54:18] | justinh: | BIOS update+1 changelog: Corrected typo.. LOL |
| [12:58:31] | mycosys: | what has that got to do with atom? |
| [12:59:42] | justinh: | it's the BIOS from somebody's atom box |
| [13:00:31] | justinh: | definitely a great reason to avoid a Zotac ION Atom board. I mean if they managed to let a typo in... erm.. |
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| [13:14:46] | justinh: | oh wow. Search for 'bios typo' & you learn it's not a rare thing at all |
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| [14:04:32] | JEDIDIAH___: | The BIOS is from a third party, much like an OS is. |
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| [14:34:40] | justinh: | so? |
| [14:35:04] | justinh: | I don't care who makes it. If I buy a product like that I don't expect typos in crucial areas like that |
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| [15:02:52] | laga: | justinh: you have never seen some of the translations in BIOS setup screens |
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| [15:08:13] | justinh: | heh I guess not |
| [15:08:42] | justinh: | we eengleesh.. we just assume everything is eengleesh ;-) |
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| [15:10:28] | laga: | heh |
| [15:10:33] | adub_: | hiya |
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| [15:10:51] | laga: | justinh: string fsckups are quite common the BIOS setup screens, so.. i try not to think about it |
| [15:11:11] | adub_: | anyone know when the hdmi audio bugs will be fixed in mythtv |
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| [15:11:56] | justinh: | ruh? |
| [15:12:14] | justinh: | you mean when alsa & PA will just work (tm) like magic (tm) ? |
| [15:13:00] | justinh: | laga: still though, it's bad that they mess up there. that wouldn't fill me with confidence for the rest of the product |
| [15:13:14] | justinh: | manuals being awful is one thing, but the BIOS is pretty darn crucial |
| [15:13:48] | laga: | justinh: as far as i'm concerned, almost all consumer hardware is crap, so i live with stuff like that ;) |
| [15:14:56] | adub_: | no justinh the problem is with myth also |
| [15:15:13] | justinh: | adub_: ah well, bugs get fixed when they get fixed |
| [15:15:34] | laga: | adub_: is there a ticket |
| [15:15:41] | justinh: | assuming they really are bugs, and somebody has even opened a ticket |
| [15:15:51] | adub_: | laga not sure |
| [15:15:57] | ** laga adds a question mark ** | |
| [15:16:05] | laga: | adub_: well, make sure one exists |
| [15:16:14] | wagnerrp: | adub_: could you explain this 'hdmi audio bug' a bit more |
| [15:16:14] | laga: | adub_: if there is no ticket, it probably will never get fixed |
| [15:16:18] | ** adub_ doubts a ticket will be a catch all ** | |
| [15:16:34] | adub_: | wagnerrp its no secret i have been working on this forever |
| [15:16:52] | justinh: | seems to be new to folks here, so maybe it has been a secret for like veer |
| [15:16:55] | justinh: | *ever, even |
| [15:16:57] | adub_: | i had a card working for a week and then all of a sudden without updates hdmi audio work on everything else except myth |
| [15:17:10] | laga: | well, yes. it's like sitting at home when you're trying to meet girls. if you go out, it's not guaranteed that you meet a girl, but your chances increase drastically |
| [15:17:14] | adub_: | i was capable of having one card work for 10 seconds then stop for no reason |
| [15:17:25] | adub_: | or more like an hour |
| [15:17:26] | laga: | if i ever use analogies again, whack me over the head |
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| [15:17:37] | adub_: | then 5 other cards none worked at all] |
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| [15:17:55] | justinh: | sounds like the work of pulseaudio |
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| [15:19:26] | justinh: | so if you doubt raising a ticket will help there's nothing a developer can do to fix it, if it's a bug |
| [15:19:53] | justinh: | I mean, bugs need tickets raised for them, or they never get fixed |
| [15:20:03] | adub_: | pulseaudio does not install on mythbuntu unless you install another desktop environment |
| [15:20:24] | justinh: | well maybe you just have mythfrontend pointed at the wrong audio device |
| [15:24:27] | wagnerrp: | and the wiki spam continues... |
| [15:25:42] | adub_: | not possible seeing that it worked for actually close to two weeks |
| [15:26:16] | justinh: | adub_: not possible huh? not possible that a setting was accidentally changed, or any number of things. I say yes, *possible* |
| [15:26:34] | wagnerrp: | thats the thing about computers |
| [15:26:43] | justinh: | just as it's not very likely that something in the mythtv code changed while your back was turned |
| [15:26:44] | wagnerrp: | barring hardware fault, things dont just stop working |
| [15:27:35] | justinh: | running ubuntu on my Epia box for a while I couldn't get digital audio to work reliably. sometimes it'd work for a while & then just not work |
| [15:27:52] | justinh: | but in minimyth it always worked flawlessly |
| [15:29:20] | justinh: | and of course nobody ever does updates they forget about installing... |
| [15:29:34] | justinh: | just bear it in mind, and check :) |
| [15:30:01] | adub_: | it stopped working after a week and a half just all of a sudden i went from watching one show to another and nothing |
| [15:30:14] | justinh: | and other programs work fine? |
| [15:30:21] | justinh: | still, check the setting anyway |
| [15:30:47] | adub_: | i have been through all of the settings |
| [15:30:58] | adub_: | for a week that it worked it worked on the setting i had |
| [15:31:03] | adub_: | 5 other cards wouldnt work |
| [15:31:25] | adub_: | but allll the cards work with absolutely everything else |
| [15:34:10] | adub_: | for whatever reason i cant get my onboard sound to detect i think i did not have it enabled in bios when i was installing mythbuntu |
| [15:34:13] | wagnerrp: | if other programs are using that card, mythtv cannot be doing passthrough audio |
| [15:34:26] | adub_: | not at the same time |
| [15:34:59] | adub_: | when i have myth running i have only myth |
| [15:35:17] | adub_: | like xbmc the card with audio works fine |
| [15:39:46] | skd5aner: | HURRAY – My G4 Powerbook is operation again after major surgery! |
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| [15:40:24] | skd5aner: | I only had to remove every single component so that I coudl replace the DC board, but hey... it turns on now – http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing . . . d-Card/238/1 |
| [15:41:02] | adub_: | one thing i did fine is pulse is not installed but i have a .pulse directory |
| [15:41:05] | adub_: | in home |
| [15:41:14] | adub_: | i did apt-get remove pulseaudio nothing |
| [15:41:37] | adub_: | i think it may have tried to install when i was trying to install gnome desktop environment |
| [15:41:49] | adub_: | something continues to write a .pulse directory over and over |
| [15:41:56] | adub_: | but pulse audio is not installed |
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| [15:45:42] | Newbuntu81: | What is the command line to find out what version of mythtv and branches that are running? similar to uname -a showing the kernel version... |
| [15:47:28] | gregL: | Newbuntu81, mythfrontend --v |
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| [15:49:38] | skd5aner: | mythfrontend --version |
| [15:49:40] | skd5aner: | (not --v) |
| [15:49:46] | skd5aner: | or mythbackend --version |
| [15:49:49] | skd5aner: | etc |
| [15:50:17] | jams: | always amazed at how many ppl end up asking that |
| [15:50:35] | Newbuntu81: | sweet. that's exactly what i wanted. Thanks guys! Spelling out "version" shows all of the version info. Example: MythTV Version : v0.24-195-gbbfb6b0 |
| [15:50:35] | gregL: | --v works for me |
| [15:50:35] | Newbuntu81: | MythTV Branch : fixes/0.24 |
| [15:50:35] | Newbuntu81: | Network Protocol : 63 |
| [15:50:35] | Newbuntu81: | Library API : 0.24.20101129–1 |
| [15:50:35] | Newbuntu81: | QT Version : 4.7.0 |
| [15:50:42] | skd5aner: | Newbuntu81: please use pastebins |
| [15:50:49] | Newbuntu81: | sorry |
| [15:51:52] | skd5aner: | gregL: doesn't work here – not sure how it would possible work for you. -v is verbose mode, and --v doesn't do anything |
| [15:52:12] | Newbuntu81: | Might depend on what flavor of linux you are running. |
| [15:52:18] | Newbuntu81: | I'm using Mythbuntu (Ubuntu) |
| [15:52:24] | skd5aner: | Newbuntu81: no... wouldn't matter – it's myth code |
| [15:52:49] | skd5aner: | I know why it is "working" for him... it's because when an invalid option flag is given it'll spit out the version |
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| [15:53:02] | skd5aner: | you could do mythbackend --vrtgsdgsearewf and the version would spit out |
| [15:53:10] | CiaranG: | Really? For me, it just ignores invalid options and starts up |
| [15:53:20] | skd5aner: | breaking a rule here, but for instance: |
| [15:53:32] | skd5aner: | mythbackend --v |
| [15:53:32] | skd5aner: | Invalid argument: --v |
| [15:53:32] | skd5aner: | mythbackend version: fixes/0.24 [v0.24-195-gbbfb6b0] www.mythtv.org |
| [15:54:15] | CiaranG: | Ah, it's mythfrontend that ignores the invalid options |
| [15:55:19] | wagnerrp: | CiaranG: more likely its an old version that ignores the invalid options |
| [15:55:28] | wagnerrp: | there was some reworking of the command line processing code a few months back |
| [15:56:12] | CiaranG: | Same version as skd5aner |
| [15:59:29] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, perfect reply on the "some of us only have one (Atom) system for MythTV" post |
| [15:59:42] | wagnerrp: | i aim to please |
| [15:59:48] | sphery: | that thread is a whole, "Doctor it hurts when..." thread |
| [15:59:55] | Newbuntu81: | apparently "dpkg – l |grep mythtv" works too |
| [16:00:19] | Newbuntu81: | per rhpot1991 |
| [16:01:06] | skd5aner: | sphery, wagnerrp: you know... if there are platforms/cpus that are actually *not* recommended, perhaps an easily found wiki page would be a good idea |
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| [16:01:38] | skd5aner: | There's always "recommended hardware" stuff out there, but the public might be better served by a page that simply lists what to avoid |
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| [16:02:42] | sphery: | based on how defiant people are in here after they've already made up their minds and we mention that buying a system that's on (or just below) the edge of useful isn't a good idea, I'm guessing the wiki page wouldn't help |
| [16:02:49] | skd5aner: | I might take a stab at it, but I don't follow that stuff – I always buy high performing desktop hardware, so it's not applicable to me, but some folks look for the bare minimum that they can get away with |
| [16:02:51] | sphery: | or would be considered "out of date" or something |
| [16:03:06] | sphery: | but, yeah, it probably makes sense to have one |
| [16:03:41] | sphery: | and, yeah, you buy proper hardware, versus trying to skimp on hardware... that's generally the idea we're trying to get across |
| [16:03:56] | skd5aner: | I just thinking a page titles something like "Hardware to avoid" or something, with sections "CPUs", "integrated systems", "platforms", etc |
| [16:04:04] | hashbang1: | my approach is usually to buy the best motherboard I can, and the cheapest CPU and GPU that fits and that I can get away with. :-) |
| [16:04:09] | skd5aner: | under CPUs, you can list which architectures to avoid and why |
| [16:04:33] | hashbang1: | then upgrade from eBay (if I can't get parts new) in a year or so's time |
| [16:04:38] | sphery: | I love how someone submits a bug report about behavior when a specific setting is enabled--and it's a setting that I'm just about to remove. :) |
| [16:04:40] | hashbang1 is now known as hashbang | |
| [16:04:42] | skd5aner: | that way, only the bad choices get put on the naughty list – then you can just point to the naughty list and say "we warned you" and be done with it |
| [16:05:34] | sphery: | or make it "Hardware Considerations" and just say /why/ Atom sucks for MythTV? |
| [16:05:44] | sphery: | then let them decide it's worth avoiding? |
| [16:05:50] | skd5aner: | I think hardware considerations might be too broad... imho |
| [16:06:04] | skd5aner: | hardware considerations would probably need to include the good and the bad |
| [16:06:16] | skd5aner: | but a blacklist is just that – avoid at all costs |
| [16:06:18] | CiaranG: | Sucks as a back-end? |
| [16:06:34] | skd5aner: | Or – at least say what the limitations are of such hardware |
| [16:06:37] | wagnerrp: | do we set milestones on wontfix issues? |
| [16:06:38] | CiaranG: | My atom-based Aspire One is a fantastic front end |
| [16:06:39] | skd5aner: | will only playback SD, etc |
| [16:06:42] | sphery: | yeah, just figured it allowed things like saying nvidia GT210 is good, but GT240 has these additional features, and GT430 can do super-special audio output and ... |
| [16:06:50] | wagnerrp: | s/fantastic/adequate/ |
| [16:06:55] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: I've seen it done both ways |
| [16:07:01] | sphery: | since, IMHO, telling people "don't get a GT210" isn't really the right approach |
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| [16:07:23] | sphery: | wagnerrp: don't need to... |
| [16:07:23] | skd5aner: | sphery: true – that would be cool to, just thought that was more work :) |
| [16:07:31] | sphery: | which one? the "mythbackend should run" one? |
| [16:08:02] | sphery: | skd5aner: definitely more work--but that's the wonderful thing about a wiki: you can get it started and let the masses finish it :) |
| [16:08:08] | wagnerrp: | sphery: yeah |
| [16:08:27] | skd5aner: | Maybe a "Hardware Do's and Don'ts" |
| [16:08:45] | wagnerrp: | closed it saying it would be taken care of properly when the backend is altered to properly support tunerless operation as part of the web setup stuff |
| [16:08:51] | sphery: | wagnerrp: cool... Maybe we can split up mbe soon |
| [16:08:53] | CiaranG: | wagnerrp: Why only adequate? What could be better about it, it works perfectly and silently. Unless I'm missing some magical features? |
| [16:09:15] | wagnerrp: | CiaranG: enough power to fall back on the CPU for any task that VDPAU cannot accomplish |
| [16:09:19] | skd5aner: | CiaranG: can't handle h.264 high-bitrate HD playback |
| [16:09:32] | skd5aner: | (i think) |
| [16:09:48] | CiaranG: | Interesting. Ok, fantastic for me then. |
| [16:09:52] | wagnerrp: | poorly encoded video, video with transmission errors, anything flash, ... |
| [16:10:00] | sphery: | CiaranG: because it has absolutely no overhead room for when there's an issue, it can't do transcodes efficiently, it is on the edge of just-able-to-work-even-with-vdpau (and many threads seem to indicate that newer MythTV is asking too much for these Atom/ION systems), ... |
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| [16:10:13] | CiaranG: | Transcodes is back-end work though |
| [16:10:19] | sphery: | note, also, that when you hit X during playback, you're doing transcodes on the frontend |
| [16:10:28] | ** sphery knew that was going to come up ** | |
| [16:10:33] | CiaranG: | Aha, lol, ok |
| [16:10:45] | laga: | sphery: uh? nice |
| [16:10:48] | wagnerrp: | CiaranG: VDPAU is great... until it doesnt work, and with an Atom you're boned with that happens |
| [16:10:52] | sphery: | Only way to get a transcode on the backend is to MENU|Job Options|Transcoding in Watch Recordings |
| [16:11:13] | sphery: | laga: about the newer mythtv and atom? |
| [16:11:45] | skd5aner: | sphery: "hit X"? |
| [16:11:52] | laga: | sphery: no, about the 'X' thing |
| [16:12:35] | sphery: | this has been my experience |
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| [16:13:18] | CiaranG: | I must admit, I didn't know there was a key assignment for it, I've only ever done it off the menu |
| [16:13:30] | CiaranG: | But why would pressing the key instead make it transcode it on the front end? |
| [16:13:36] | sphery: | TV Playback/QUEUETRANSCODE, default X |
| [16:13:52] | wagnerrp: | sphery: yeah, that should just add it to the jobqueue, not run it locally |
| [16:14:10] | sphery: | no clue... just know that on my dedicated mythfrontend with no NFS mounts, when I use X, it tells me that mythtranscode requires local access to the video |
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| [16:15:13] | sphery: | then again, maybe it has changed since I last tried it |
| [16:15:21] | sphery: | probably last tried in 0.21 |
| [16:16:00] | sphery: | (and, no, I don't run mythbackend or mythjobqueue on my dedicated frontend) |
| [16:17:07] | sphery: | OK, I'm realizing why I hate the Github comments e-mails. They're completely out-of-context |
| [16:17:15] | sphery: | there's no quoting of previous comments, etc. |
| [16:17:17] | sphery: | just a mess |
| [16:17:25] | sphery: | random thoughts, it sems |
| [16:17:29] | skd5aner: | comment or commit? |
| [16:17:37] | sphery: | comment on commits |
| [16:17:44] | skd5aner: | where are those at? |
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| [16:17:56] | sphery: | github sends and e-mail for things like: https://github.com/MythTV/mythtv/commit/a2a57 . . . mment-288506 |
| [16:18:19] | sphery: | all it says is, "I have make one test and i'ts work now\nI'll do more testing" and the link |
| [16:18:24] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: you probably have to be registered as a dev, or at least a watcher, to get them |
| [16:18:27] | sphery: | which is useless |
| [16:18:38] | skd5aner: | gotcha |
| [16:18:40] | sphery: | right |
| [16:18:53] | sphery: | we've had too many people having discussions there |
| [16:19:04] | sphery: | and submitting pull requests without trac tickets |
| [16:19:22] | sphery: | which makes tracking what's happenning difficult |
| [16:19:31] | sphery: | we need a better way to 'trac' those requests |
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| [16:24:52] | jams: | wagnerrp- hal/dbus has already been removed from the latest version of smolt client |
| [16:25:12] | wagnerrp: | it uses udev now? or what? |
| [16:26:54] | jams: | that was the plan, but to tell you the truth i didnt look at that commit |
| [16:27:11] | jams: | my thought was to hammer out what we want, get it working with what we have then go from there |
| [16:27:35] | wagnerrp: | well that was the issue, i couldnt get HAL working |
| [16:27:50] | wagnerrp: | id like to think i wouldnt be the only person suffering this |
| [16:28:27] | jams: | probably not |
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| [16:30:59] | sphery: | wagnerrp: did you see stuartm's question about whether it's report mythtv version info? |
| [16:31:11] | sphery: | (in #mythtv) |
| [16:31:18] | sphery: | maybe you or jams would know |
| [16:31:19] | jams: | i think it should |
| [16:31:26] | jams: | right now it doens't but that can be added |
| [16:31:38] | sphery: | yeah, makes sense |
| [16:31:47] | sphery: | would be great to have branch and revision info when available |
| [16:32:06] | jams: | wagnerrp- git://git.fedorahosted.org/smolt.git |
| [16:32:14] | jams: | clone from there and check out the client |
| [16:33:28] | wagnerrp: | jams: looking at the code on fedorahosted.org |
| [16:33:38] | wagnerrp: | looks like the dbus stuff is all just commented out |
| [16:33:52] | wagnerrp: | and its pulling from Gate(), which just reads in a config files |
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| [16:34:05] | wagnerrp: | which means its not actually grabbing any information of its own, just reading a file |
| [16:34:11] | wagnerrp: | ... but that doesnt make sense |
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| [16:53:56] | jams: | wagnerrp- the GATE stuff is a permissions thing. it checks to see if the client is allowed to return that info. |
| [16:54:18] | wagnerrp: | jams: yeah, but i cant figure out where they actually get their data |
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| [16:56:50] | wagnerrp: | ah, they moved it into haldump.py |
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| [17:02:06] | jams: | so if you want to write you own client, I don't have a huge problem with it. Just figured it would be nice to start with something and enhance what is there & give back to smolt. |
| [17:02:25] | wagnerrp: | im not saying write one from scratch |
| [17:02:37] | wagnerrp: | im just more concerned with the dbus/hal stuff |
| [17:02:40] | jams: | right |
| [17:02:44] | wagnerrp: | HAL has been on the way out for years |
| [17:02:49] | wagnerrp: | while everyone should have udev |
| [17:02:52] | jams: | correct |
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| [17:03:12] | wagnerrp: | but since smolt is based around hal, it would be a huge rewrite |
| [17:03:28] | jams: | completely understand. I wasn't aware that some distros had stopped using hal |
| [17:03:40] | wagnerrp: | plus i would want to abstract the data gathering through another layer |
| [17:03:54] | wagnerrp: | so it would be easier to use with other platforms than linux, which smolt may not care about |
| [17:04:04] | wagnerrp: | jams: this may more be a gentoo issue than anything else |
| [17:04:21] | wagnerrp: | since the default install is pretty barren, just a few hundred MB |
| [17:04:29] | jams: | i see |
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| [17:05:17] | jams: | the latest smolt client does not use hal or dbus, but it's also lacking usb info that hal provided. |
| [17:05:33] | wagnerrp: | is the trac browser not showing the latest smolt? |
| [17:05:47] | jams: | are you on the branch "next" |
| [17:06:13] | jams: | well lets just say I have the client and had dbus/hal turned off. it worked without issue |
| [17:06:17] | wagnerrp: | i see no branches |
| [17:06:31] | jams: | give it a try |
| [17:06:32] | wagnerrp: | ill take a look at git a bit later |
| [17:06:47] | wagnerrp: | ive got it cloned, just havent gone digging around in that yet |
| [17:06:51] | jams: | k |
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| [17:58:10] | sphery: | now that was a long commit message for a one-token code change |
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| [18:22:16] | sphery: | mythtv-users list is a wall |
| [18:22:50] | kormoc: | yes... it really is... |
| [18:23:10] | Beirdo: | keep flingin crap at it.. it might stick eventually |
| [18:23:51] | sphery: | no matter how many times I tell people that devs (Capt M, stuartm, iamlindoro, ...) had written code to try to automatically resize/re-layout themes to allow easy changes and they all found out it just didn't work, they still say, "Just write some code so that we can change our font size easily." |
| [18:24:05] | sphery: | it's not a matter of code |
| [18:24:47] | sphery: | unless, of course, you're talking about writing code that puts iamlindoro or justinh's brain into an executable |
| [18:25:33] | sphery: | kormoc: btw, I have several fixes for the MySQL 5.5 datetime issue here |
| [18:25:39] | kormoc: | sweet |
| [18:25:41] | sphery: | will be committing shortly after some basic testing |
| [18:25:50] | sphery: | thanks for finding another broken construct to search for :) |
| [18:25:56] | Beirdo: | we can easily add code to let them change font sizes. |
| [18:25:57] | kormoc: | Heh, my pleasure |
| [18:26:01] | Beirdo: | but it will be hideoius |
| [18:26:06] | Beirdo: | hideous... |
| [18:26:15] | kormoc: | Beirdo, we did have that. it didn't work. We removed it cause they hated it... and now they want it back |
| [18:26:23] | Beirdo: | exactly :) |
| [18:26:31] | kormoc: | bloody multi-personality users... |
| [18:26:45] | Beirdo: | oooh, you wanted to change font size and have the theme magically adjust?! |
| [18:26:46] | sphery: | kormoc: yeah, and they always complained, "When I change font size to Default, Small, Big, it doesn't do anything," |
| [18:27:01] | sphery: | and that's all because we used to require the themer to theme the theme 3 times--once for each size |
| [18:27:12] | sphery: | and they didn't have the time, motivation, or inclination, so no one actually did it |
| [18:27:14] | Beirdo: | puke |
| [18:27:26] | Beirdo: | not surprising. one size is enough work. |
| [18:27:39] | Beirdo: | s/enough/more than enough/ |
| [18:27:48] | skd5aner: | well, I can say that it is hard to read the text in some themes it seems, but hey... maybe I just ought to upgrade from a 50" TV to a 60" one, that'll solve it right? |
| [18:27:54] | sphery: | but users feel it's the themer's job to make the theme use the font size they want |
| [18:28:05] | sphery: | skd5aner: or just use a theme that's not hard to read |
| [18:28:15] | sphery: | i.e. they're themes--nothing forces you to use any specific one |
| [18:28:27] | Beirdo: | yeah, with a bigger TV, much of the "too small" issues should disappear, except if you are nearly blind |
| [18:28:28] | skd5aner: | my artistic tastes don't like the easy to read themes ;) |
| [18:28:35] | Beirdo: | in which case... you're borked anyways |
| [18:28:39] | sphery: | and if you don't like the one(s) that are easy to read on your screen, then it's time to create your own |
| [18:28:57] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [18:29:07] | skd5aner: | sphery: I'm a mediocre graphic artist... heh ;) |
| [18:29:15] | Beirdo: | if your eyesight is so bad you need 3" characters in the OSD... sorry, you are SOL |
| [18:29:27] | ** wagnerrp breaks out the drum and whip ** | |
| [18:29:27] | sphery: | and if it's not worth your time to create a new one, then the best approach is getting a (physically) bigger display |
| [18:29:35] | wagnerrp: | theme...........theme...........theme...........theme........... |
| [18:29:50] | Beirdo: | or... manually tweak the theme locally. |
| [18:30:00] | ** wagnerrp yells for artistic speed! ** | |
| [18:30:00] | skd5aner: | actually – I'm still a big an of arclight, and can read it just fine 98% of the time, really the only issue I have is with the readability of some of the icons on the OSD – but that's not really a font issue, more a graphic one |
| [18:30:05] | wagnerrp: | theme....theme....theme....theme....theme.... |
| [18:30:07] | Beirdo: | which is nearly as much work as creating a new one by the time you are done |
| [18:30:38] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: LMAO – awesome |
| [18:31:05] | Beirdo: | yeah, wagnerrp.. you are inspiring me to make my ncurses-like theme... in the copious spare time I don't have |
| [18:31:18] | skd5aner: | eh, I just like playing devil's advocate sometimes when all the devs want to kill all the users ;) |
| [18:31:22] | Beirdo: | you want an ugly theme... here ya go! |
| [18:31:53] | Beirdo: | and for previews, somehow make it use libcaca |
| [18:31:53] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: the cheaper alternative would be to move your couch forward |
| [18:31:57] | skd5aner: | Beirdo: I think novelty themes are cool |
| [18:32:25] | Beirdo: | I watched about 5 minutes of caprica using libcaca rendering at nearly fullscreen |
| [18:32:27] | skd5aner: | honestly, I have good vision, and would not need to change font size – but not everyone does |
| [18:32:44] | Beirdo: | it was funny, and best watched a touch drunk so your focus is bad |
| [18:33:11] | skd5aner: | maybe a theme for folks who have bad eyesight? |
| [18:33:26] | skd5aner: | mythglasses-wide |
| [18:33:29] | sphery: | Beirdo: heh, MythLite is back under construction, again |
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| [18:34:22] | Beirdo: | heheh |
| [18:34:26] | Beirdo: | OK, deploy time |
| [18:34:42] | wagnerrp: | sphery: all the scaling would take would be some fairly simple mathematical calculations |
| [18:34:59] | wagnerrp: | i dont know why youre so adamant it cant be done |
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| [18:35:10] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [18:35:10] | wagnerrp: | its not like i have any experience in these things, i just know it would be easy to do |
| [18:35:10] | skd5aner: | I've wanted to do a theme for years – I just never get that ball rolling – I'd probably be like justinh, roll something out and then loathe it |
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| [18:35:35] | Beirdo: | and loathe the morons who constantly complain about it too :) |
| [18:35:47] | sphery: | skd5aner: no, you'd roll something out, then all the ***ching would make you loathe having created it |
| [18:36:03] | sphery: | :( now Beirdo is faster than me, too |
| [18:36:12] | skd5aner: | well – it is art right? everyone is going to have an opinion by definition |
| [18:36:57] | Beirdo: | opinions are like anuses... everyone's got one, and they all stink. |
| [18:37:13] | skd5aner: | it seems like sometimes people forget all the praise they receive. You know how many people have complimented something like arclight or proectgrayhem, a ton – but I never hear people around here bring that art of the user ML up ;) |
| [18:37:31] | skd5aner: | s/art/part |
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| [18:37:53] | sphery: | well, many of those "praise" comments are back-handed praise |
| [18:38:11] | sphery: | "I *love* Arclight. If only the fonts were bigger, it would be the perfect theme." |
| [18:38:25] | Beirdo: | how is that backhanded? |
| [18:38:34] | skd5aner: | regardless – I want a theme – I'm going to create one some day – one thing that shys me away is that I'm afraid it'll be a bit derivitative of what's already out there and I'll be critized for that :/ |
| [18:38:50] | skd5aner: | s/I want a theme/I want to theme |
| [18:39:08] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: its like saying 'if only you didnt f-up the whole theme by making it too small, it would be great' |
| [18:39:31] | sphery: | "Arclight is the best theme ever created for MythTV. MythTV is getting closer to having themes as good as XBMCs." |
| [18:39:38] | wagnerrp: | 'mythtv fails to build on armel'... WTF is armel? |
| [18:39:45] | sphery: | ARM |
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| [18:39:53] | Beirdo: | not really. It's just saying "I'm too cheap to buy a bigger TV, and obviously this was intended for a larger TV than my cheap self will buy" |
| [18:40:14] | sphery: | I'd give an ARM and a leg to get people to actually debug their own compile issues when compiling on non-useful hardware. |
| [18:40:29] | skd5aner: | Beirdo: all opinions aside, some people can't afford to buy bigger TVs in all fairness |
| [18:40:34] | Beirdo: | agreed |
| [18:40:46] | Beirdo: | and nobody's forcing them into using any particular theme |
| [18:40:52] | skd5aner: | Beirdo: it would be unreasonable to say that makes someone cheap |
| [18:40:59] | sphery: | Beirdo: it's the compliment sandwich approach... "It's great. Change this. It's nice." |
| [18:41:22] | Beirdo: | I've used Arclight on a 22" screen, and yes, the fonts get small, but come on... it's a 22" TV, all fonts will be a bit small |
| [18:41:23] | sphery: | maybe not backhanded, but definitely with some ulterior motives and/or complaints in the praise |
| [18:41:32] | skd5aner: | I will say though, if you want a "fully featured" theme with current myth – choices are very slim |
| [18:41:41] | sphery: | skd5aner: and /that/ is the real problem |
| [18:41:41] | Beirdo: | if the fonts were bigger it would destroy the theme |
| [18:41:47] | sphery: | that no one is creating new themes |
| [18:41:52] | sphery: | because of the investment of time required |
| [18:42:06] | sphery: | and the response one tends to get after doing so |
| [18:42:32] | Beirdo: | you might be able to bump the size up a tiny bit, but even then, it wouldn't look right without resizing things, which really makes it a new theme. |
| [18:42:34] | skd5aner: | and now you can't even get most/any of iamlindoro's featured themes packed in themes anymore (not sure if he'll distribute them independantly or through the downloader service) – so now there are even less official themes which are full features |
| [18:42:38] | skd5aner: | er, featured |
| [18:42:49] | sphery: | wagnerrp: specificall, armel is ARM EABI |
| [18:43:15] | Beirdo: | so let's face it. Arclight on a 22" screen... really wasn't want it was designed for. Which isn't a knock against the design at all |
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| [18:44:22] | skd5aner: | Beirdo: I think that's a reasonable thing to state... the problem is, what are the alternatives to arclight on a 22" screen (or any size screen) and are those alternatives complete/full featured? |
| [18:44:23] | sphery: | Beirdo: agreed... Arclight on a 22" screen at 10-ft viewing is not what it's designed for |
| [18:44:55] | Beirdo: | at 1-ft, it's pretty snazzy ;) |
| [18:45:03] | sphery: | but "it's great, but I dislike <whatever>" is just as much a "I dislike <whatever>" as saying it straight out |
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| [18:46:00] | sphery: | Beirdo: yeah, it works great in a 1280x720 window on this computer's 24-in 1920x1080 display--because I'm sitting 2ft from the screen. |
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| [18:46:17] | Beirdo: | and because it's a monitor not a TV :) |
| [18:46:33] | Beirdo: | get less odd resampling effects |
| [18:46:35] | skd5aner: | I don't know – I understand people put a lot of blood, sweat, tears, hours, and sacrafice their own time for this stuff – but when UX reports come in criticizing something, they're always deemed as whiners or idiots who don't appreciate the work behind what they're using – I just don't think that's entirely fair |
| [18:46:39] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ok, so more specifically, "ARM architecture emulator" |
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| [18:46:48] | sphery: | that just happens to use EABI |
| [18:47:06] | wagnerrp: | so cross platform compiling? |
| [18:47:14] | sphery: | not sure |
| [18:47:45] | Beirdo: | yeah, that's why I asked for some clarification there |
| [18:47:57] | sphery: | skd5aner: no, they're often deemed as "users whose opinions differ from the theme artist's", then when the same usrs keep complaining, they're deemed as whiners or idiots |
| [18:47:59] | Beirdo: | we can't support every platform in the world :) |
| [18:48:08] | skd5aner: | It's sometimes a bit unfortunate that user feedback related to usability is scorned as often as it is – now, the haters... they can go to hell |
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| [18:48:32] | kormoc: | Haters gonna hate... |
| [18:48:36] | ** kormoc struts down the street ** | |
| [18:48:37] | skd5aner: | :) |
| [18:48:59] | sphery: | skd5aner: but, regardles, user feedback related to usability where that feedback is demanding the impossible doesn't help, anyway |
| [18:49:05] | sphery: | i.e. we can't just have mythtv changing font sizes |
| [18:49:25] | skd5aner: | sphery: does any STB/DVR platform offer font size changes out there? |
| [18:49:26] | Beirdo: | been there, tried that, it sucked |
| [18:49:44] | sphery: | unless we limit our UI to the simplistic garbage you find in the "all the OSes allow it, so why can't MythTV" |
| [18:49:46] | skd5aner: | I understand, and it may just be a limitation that can't be overcome anytime soon |
| [18:49:55] | sphery: | I don't know |
| [18:50:17] | sphery: | but those other STB/DVR platforms--if they do--likely have one theme, possibly with multiple font size variants |
| [18:50:33] | sphery: | and the theme is created by the vendor (TiVo, SciAtl, ...) |
| [18:50:44] | ** wagnerrp hands kormoc a cane with which to beat the haters ** | |
| [18:51:01] | wagnerrp: | and the bitches that step out of line |
| [18:51:02] | sphery: | versus trying to create a general-purpose theming engine that allows virtually unlimited customizability |
| [18:51:50] | skd5aner: | I mean, I've got opinions about nearly every theme I've ran, 90% of them are good, but it's the 10% I know I just have to keep my mouth shut on because I'm afraid my comments/feedback might be misconstrued as "too negative" instead of real deficiencies which I feel could be improved |
| [18:52:37] | skd5aner: | even still, most of the time people say that "patches are welcome", but I don't think that philosophy applies that much to themes because the theme owners get so territorial over the "artistic" perspective of it, that changes and patches are in fact not welcome |
| [18:53:22] | skd5aner: | I've made patches and changes to themes which i thought would be for the greater good in the past, but I was told that patches weren't welcome and that the theme would stay the way it is |
| [18:53:36] | sphery: | well, that's exactly the case |
| [18:53:41] | sphery: | themes are art, not code |
| [18:53:47] | sphery: | you can make an argument that code /is/ wrong |
| [18:53:51] | sphery: | art, however... |
| [18:54:32] | sphery: | I told my friend Pablo that his picture didn't look anything like a woman's face, but he refused to change it--even though I was /obviously/ right. |
| [18:54:39] | skd5aner: | Well, I would say it's still UI and UX... |
| [18:54:45] | skd5aner: | with art on top of it |
| [18:54:51] | skd5aner: | you still want a good UX |
| [18:55:05] | sphery: | and, presumably, the themer feels it's a good UX |
| [18:55:16] | skd5aner: | I can make a theme that's totally abstract and say "Watch Recordings is the little blue squigly line in the right hand corner", but UX is really going to suck and I would think it would be "wrong" |
| [18:55:24] | kormoc: | Maybe I don't! My theme is called "Hades on your tv" and it's designed to scare you back into Tivo's loving embrase! |
| [18:55:37] | sphery: | skd5aner: but it's not wrong... it's just your artistic choice |
| [18:55:49] | sphery: | skd5aner: and since /I/ can choose to use a different theme, then why should you have to change yours |
| [18:56:00] | kormoc: | skd5aner, it's wrong for a specific end user or a specfic class of end users... but it's not wrong for the guy who made it |
| [18:56:02] | skd5aner: | I mean, the interior of a car is "art", but if it's hard to reach a button, or read a button, that doesn't mean that it's not wrong? |
| [18:56:09] | skd5aner: | someone designed it that way |
| [18:56:19] | kormoc: | skd5aner, for a specific person, yes, for the designer, not always |
| [18:56:21] | sphery: | or, for that matter, since I can choose to take yours and edit it myself to make it into skd5aner-theme-that-is-not-stupid, why should you have to change yours |
| [18:56:32] | sphery: | (presuming you've licensed it to allow said changes) |
| [18:56:59] | sphery: | skd5aner: but you can't switch the interior of your car with a setting |
| [18:57:06] | skd5aner: | I'm worried that my comments might be like pouring gasoline on a fire :( not my intentions |
| [18:57:19] | sphery: | heh |
| [18:57:22] | kormoc: | skd5aner, you're making a assumption that isn't valid here |
| [18:57:29] | sphery: | I agree |
| [18:57:38] | kormoc: | skd5aner, that your perception of UX/UI is more valid then someone else's |
| [18:57:39] | sphery: | I think the theme is something that should look and work the way the themer desires |
| [18:58:02] | sphery: | and anyone else who wants different can choose a different theme or edit the theme to get what they want |
| [18:58:04] | skd5aner: | kormoc: that may be, but isn't the same reciprical for the actual theme's designer? couldn't their perspective be skewed as well? |
| [18:58:14] | kormoc: | skd5aner, that our of reach button for you might be perfectly placed for me. Who are you to say I designed it wrong when it feels so right? |
| [18:58:19] | sphery: | basically, my entire point is that it's the themer's discretion--and no on else's |
| [18:58:43] | sphery: | no one else put the hundreds (or more?) hours into creating that theme, so ... |
| [18:58:47] | kormoc: | skd5aner, Yes, the themer's view point could be skewed, sure. But they shouldn't have to bend to *your* view point |
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| [18:59:15] | sphery: | just like MythTV shouldn't be force to implement some functionality that a user wants |
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| [18:59:43] | sphery: | it's FOSS = you're Free to use it how you like--or change it to make it more useful to you |
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| [18:59:55] | sphery: | not "you're Free to make demands" |
| [19:00:35] | skd5aner: | I know, it's extremely hard to come and criticize any of the themers, rightfully so, who have put so much time and effort in... and I agree, it's an art – I guess I just wonder in an Open-Source model, where the happy median is for feedback on a UI/theme vs the total control of an artist who created it? |
| [19:00:53] | skd5aner: | not sure I stated that clearly enough there, but I hope you follow |
| [19:00:56] | kormoc: | skd5aner, feedback is okay. Expecting them to do anything from your feedback is not |
| [19:01:01] | sphery: | +1 |
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| [19:01:27] | Beirdo: | And this is why I prefer not to work with GUIs in general. |
| [19:01:32] | kormoc: | skd5aner, Example, iam and I have a difference in opinion for the alpha channel on arclight. I mentioned it to him, he rejected it, I changed it locally and live happy :) |
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| [19:02:10] | sphery: | and it's generally best--since all themers are (TTBOMK) human, too--to make sure you're not just repeating the same feedback that's already been rejected 100 times |
| [19:02:26] | sphery: | because that's when it goes from "feedback" to "whiners and idiots" :) |
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| [19:02:39] | skd5aner: | So (making this up) if a themer puts something like red text on a green background, and a bunch of color blind people are like "I can't read that – here's a patch that 'fixes' it so that it can be read" – it's 100% up to the theme artist if they want to consider the feedback or not? |
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| [19:03:01] | ** sphery sends an e-mail to IBM to see if Watson is up for a "MythTV theming challenge" ** | |
| [19:03:15] | sphery: | skd5aner: yep |
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| [19:03:17] | skd5aner: | sphery: heh :) |
| [19:03:21] | sphery: | skd5aner: ADA doesn't apply |
| [19:03:49] | sphery: | skd5aner: IMHO, MythTV should have exactly /one/ "community" theme |
| [19:04:00] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: now now, the color blind are just being anti-christmas |
| [19:04:07] | skd5aner: | bastards |
| [19:04:12] | sphery: | that theme would be default and default-wide and would look the same, save layout, on both square and wide screen |
| [19:04:26] | sphery: | and that theme would be created by committee--accepting feedback from random users |
| [19:04:37] | sphery: | and all other themes are the domain of the themers |
| [19:04:50] | skd5aner: | speaking of which, where's my Christmas theme... and my boss would like a Hanukka theme |
| [19:04:53] | sphery: | but for that to happen, we need to get someone to create a default and default-wide |
| [19:05:00] | skd5aner: | Myabe Easter while you're at it |
| [19:05:18] | sphery: | Groundhog Day! |
| [19:05:19] | skd5aner: | sphery: I like the idea of "community" theme(s) |
| [19:05:44] | skd5aner: | I kind of feel like mythcenter is that way – no one really is overly protective of it, and several people patch it |
| [19:05:59] | skd5aner: | I haven't used it in probably 5 years, but |
| [19:06:02] | sphery: | skd5aner: if we can get someone to create a 4:3 and 16:9 theme--and relinquish all control of it to "the committee"--we'd do it |
| [19:06:13] | sphery: | but it's also garbage |
| [19:06:20] | sphery: | since it was designed for the old engine |
| [19:06:26] | sphery: | and "line-by-line" converted to the new |
| [19:06:27] | wagnerrp: | it would have flames, and racing stripes, and speed holes |
| [19:06:30] | sphery: | rather than designed for the enw |
| [19:06:35] | wagnerrp: | and a big spoiler on the back |
| [19:06:37] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, animated flames! |
| [19:06:41] | kormoc: | Visual communication! |
| [19:06:46] | sphery: | using Flash, of course |
| [19:06:48] | skd5aner: | speed holes? |
| [19:07:00] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: ever seen a buick? |
| [19:07:03] | sphery: | since it's cross-platform /and/ has the best animation API in existence! |
| [19:07:07] | skd5aner: | yea |
| [19:07:08] | kormoc: | skd5aner, that's why the macpro has all those holes in the case, it speeds up the computer |
| [19:07:18] | wagnerrp: | those strange vents on the sides of the hood? |
| [19:07:25] | wagnerrp: | the ones that serve absolutely no purpose? |
| [19:07:30] | kormoc: | sphery, nothing like class UIWidget extends MovieClip |
| [19:07:36] | skd5aner: | kormoc: heh, my desktop case is a macpro tower ripoff ;) |
| [19:07:45] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: yea, gotcha |
| [19:08:02] | kormoc: | skd5aner, I'd be shocked if it's half as nice... I love me my mac pro! |
| [19:08:19] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: the worse part is when you see other cards that just have adhesive versions of those stuck onto the hook |
| [19:08:21] | wagnerrp: | hood |
| [19:08:26] | sphery: | kormoc: well, I don't know specifics of the API, but this really wise man once said it's the best in #mythtv, so it must be true |
| [19:08:35] | wagnerrp: | and you know they still have solid metal underneath |
| [19:08:47] | sphery: | twisted metal 3 |
| [19:09:14] | wagnerrp: | sphery: when was someone proclaiming the wonders of flash in #mythtv? |
| [19:09:16] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp, sphery, kormoc, Beirdo: anyway – thanks for not throwing me to the wolves with the rest of the folks on the ML who are legitimate complainers – ultimately, I really don't have any theme based complaints beyond tiny personal preference stuff, but I am able to see the "basis" of some of the complaints that find their way to the ML |
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| [19:09:27] | skd5aner: | so, that's why I was just asking, playing devil's advocate, etc |
| [19:09:46] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: theres a difference, you contribute in some fashion, you have the right to an opinion |
| [19:09:50] | kormoc: | skd5aner, certainly, I have my differences as well, but in the end, I bow to the ones doing the work and try to keep them happy :) |
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| [19:10:09] | sphery: | wagnerrp: the same animated flash guy |
| [19:10:16] | sphery: | er, animated flames |
| [19:10:25] | skd5aner: | kormoc: yea, I've begged and pleaded justinh to give up some new eye candy goodness for years |
| [19:10:28] | kormoc: | I also keep saying that one day I'll have free time and do up a theme... one day... some day... over the rainbow... |
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| [19:10:43] | wagnerrp: | ooh, we need rainbows too |
| [19:10:48] | skd5aner: | kormoc: same... it'll llikely never happen |
| [19:11:01] | skd5aner: | maybe I'll come up with a my little pony theme... with rainbows and unicorns |
| [19:11:11] | skd5aner: | p0nies too if you're lukcy |
| [19:11:19] | kormoc: | with web stuff it's easy. One dedicated weekend for clean blue... not so for myth proper sadly |
| [19:11:40] | sphery: | skd5aner: yeah, if we could just get a nice simple default, then we could put all the others (including legacy garbage) into myththemes (or, better, their own repos) and let someone who actually likes the theme maintain them |
| [19:11:53] | sphery: | until then, we just have to remember that the themes--even if they're on myththemes repo |
| [19:11:57] | sphery: | aren't really "ours" |
| [19:12:02] | skd5aner: | I am expecting my first child in a few months – need to suppiment childish |
| [19:12:04] | sphery: | we're just borrowing them :) |
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| [19:12:14] | sphery: | at least that's my opinion |
| [19:12:27] | kormoc: | I really love the cute gecko in childish |
| [19:12:33] | kormoc: | he's so happy |
| [19:12:37] | wagnerrp: | i thought that was the whole plan for the theme chooser |
| [19:12:41] | sphery: | that said, the legacy ones are typically very much community themes |
| [19:13:02] | sphery: | kormoc: agreed--and he's just like the ones that run around outside (and sometimes inside!) my house |
| [19:13:09] | skd5aner: | where did that gecko come from – did the theme artist create that from scratch? |
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| [19:13:43] | kormoc: | I'd assume so, but no idea |
| [19:14:19] | sphery: | wagnerrp: that's my plan for the theme chooser |
| [19:14:45] | sphery: | wagnerrp: but we need to get rid of MythCenter* and make a single "default" theme (in 4:3 and 16:9)\ |
| [19:14:51] | sphery: | that part I don't see happening |
| [19:14:59] | sphery: | since the effort required to create a theme is pretty large |
| [19:15:27] | sphery: | maybe we should just start a theme, create some basic widgets and ask users to theme the pages they use |
| [19:17:15] | wagnerrp: | you do that and youll get a nasty hodge podge of crap |
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| [19:17:53] | sphery: | wagnerrp: btw, every time I start up mythfrontend using ssh -Y, I'm loving not having to do -O ThemePainter |
| [19:18:10] | skd5aner: | Actually – I think even as an intermediary step, it would be nice to know the completeness of all the currently distributed themes – just like there are for translations |
| [19:18:13] | wagnerrp: | its also nice that it doesnt segfault |
| [19:18:25] | sphery: | wagnerrp: if we don't do that, we'll have a nice, beautiful default theme, then the "designed by committee" changes to it will make it a nasty hodge podge of crap |
| [19:18:37] | wagnerrp: | doesnt capt'ms utility do that? |
| [19:18:39] | sphery: | i.e. all the "you must change X" stuff |
| [19:18:42] | skd5aner: | mythcenter – 95%, mythcenter-wide – 98%, mythbunutu – 74%, etc |
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| [19:19:18] | sphery: | wagnerrp: doesn't segfault? you mean that guy using the broken drivers? |
| [19:19:19] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: on the contrary, mythcenter and mythcenter-wide are probably more like 15% |
| [19:19:28] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: yea, just making up numbers |
| [19:19:29] | wagnerrp: | sphery: no, multiple instances of the frontend |
| [19:19:36] | sphery: | ahhh, that |
| [19:19:49] | sphery: | I never do multiple instances |
| [19:19:57] | sphery: | if I did, I'd have a proper config :) |
| [19:20:00] | kormoc: | I'd wager a community run theme will take more time to manage then a created from scratch theme |
| [19:20:05] | kormoc: | you'd get into ego wars |
| [19:20:29] | kormoc: | "X wants to re-skin window Y with Q but Z wants Y with R..." |
| [19:20:29] | sphery: | heh, I see I still have my modified Arclight theme in place--the one that pulses every recording in Watch Recordings |
| [19:20:32] | skd5aner: | hate to say this, because I never do, but how does XBMC handle themes in terms of development? |
| [19:20:43] | skd5aner: | all third party stuff? |
| [19:20:50] | sphery: | (was testing for the "100% CPU"--which I can't even duplicate when every single recording is pulsing) |
| [19:21:00] | kormoc: | skd5aner, all third party and they pick one of theme to be the default |
| [19:21:07] | kormoc: | *them |
| [19:21:21] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: and their themes are usually done by teams of several people |
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| [19:21:43] | wagnerrp: | rather than months of work by one individual |
| [19:21:56] | skd5aner: | I'm just thinking – like translations, if all the current themes could be updated to "completeness", it would be nice to have a list of what exactly is missing and still needs themed |
| [19:22:25] | skd5aner: | this dialog box in this plugin, or this entire plugin isn't themed, etc – without having to dig through the theme and take tally yourself |
| [19:23:02] | skd5aner: | might be a place for people to start versus diving into the deep end and creating their own theme |
| [19:23:30] | skd5aner: | since no one single person is typically responsible for several of the themes today |
| [19:23:33] | sphery: | wagnerrp: ooh, get some people to set up theme-teams... |
| [19:23:39] | sphery: | like the translation teams |
| [19:23:51] | kormoc: | Yes! I call TEAM AWESOMESAUCE! |
| [19:24:25] | sphery: | wonder if a call for action would actually get some people motivated |
| [19:24:26] | skd5aner: | sphery: not sure if you're being sarcastic or if you are actually suggesting |
| [19:24:34] | sphery: | actually liking the idea |
| [19:24:40] | kormoc: | sphery, like the theme contest? |
| [19:24:40] | sphery: | 03.02 14:21:21 <+wagnerrp> skd5aner: and their themes are usually done by teams of several people |
| [19:24:41] | skd5aner: | because I was actually suggesting something like that :) |
| [19:24:43] | sphery: | 03.02 14:21:43 <+wagnerrp> rather than months of work by one individual |
| [19:25:26] | sphery: | kormoc: or just like the translators--just a way for people who don't have time to do a whole theme to help out |
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| [19:25:32] | sphery: | and distribute the work |
| [19:25:52] | sphery: | but still have an internal mechanism for handling consistency and overall design issues |
| [19:26:01] | ** kormoc waits for the day OpenMonr makes him rich... that's the floss way, no? ** | |
| [19:26:06] | skd5aner: | sphery: yea... that's exactly what I was getting at |
| [19:26:39] | sphery: | kormoc: I demand you rewrite it in PHP |
| [19:26:45] | sphery: | that's the floss way |
| [19:26:52] | kormoc: | Oh noes! Hours of work down the drain! |
| [19:26:56] | skd5aner: | Some mechanism that could say – here's what's missing from theme X, and some way to target what work needs to be done, and when it get's completed check it off the list |
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| [19:28:27] | skd5aner: | and, promoting the use of teams to accomplish it would make sense to ensure duplication of work doesn't occur |
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| [19:29:00] | skd5aner: | I know I could probably learn a lot by tackling very small projects within themes prior to trying to tackle an entire theme all together |
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| [19:34:55] | sphery: | skd5aner: that's on the plan, but it requires someone writing a script to automate checking against the theme XML schema and deciding how to "measure" each |
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| [19:37:55] | ptriller: | Hi, mythfronted runs tmdb.py ob my client, and uses up 100 % CPU causing the player to stutter, can I stop it from doing so, or get it to run that stuff on the master ? |
| [19:39:20] | wagnerrp: | ptriller: tmdb.py only runs when pulling data |
| [19:39:32] | wagnerrp: | are you saying you started up the bulk grabber, and then started playback? |
| [19:40:01] | ptriller: | well it should not start any grabbers onb my client, it should run them on the server |
| [19:40:29] | wagnerrp: | until very recently, that stuff only existed on the client, not the server |
| [19:40:40] | ptriller: | ah, ok. |
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| [19:40:54] | wagnerrp: | basically, in 0.23, that stuff could only be run interactively |
| [19:41:08] | wagnerrp: | meaning it should never have been running during playback |
| [19:41:30] | wagnerrp: | in 0.24, there is the bulk scanner, which running that and then starting playback is the only way it could possibly interfere with playback |
| [19:41:44] | wagnerrp: | in 0.25, the bulk scanner has now been moved into the backend, so it can be used with the upnp server |
| [19:42:20] | wagnerrp: | so the only reason you should be seeing such issues would be if you are running 0.24, and you just imported your library |
| [19:42:25] | wagnerrp: | this should only happen once |
| [19:42:36] | ptriller: | hmm I did a "look for changes" |
| [19:42:43] | wagnerrp: | once its done, the scanner will not do background processing on those files again |
| [19:46:25] | sphery: | heh, love the plan for Atoms in #mythtv :) |
| [19:46:28] | ptriller: | ok, I can ive with tat. Anotehr thing is more annoying, when I watch videos I get hangs every few seconds, cpu is at 3 % and lookint at IP traf the network is not near its limit, I see a "transfer->stop" pattern and always at the end of the 'stop' part the video hangs for a moment |
| [19:46:49] | wagnerrp: | ptriller: are you using VDPAU for decoding? |
| [19:46:54] | ptriller: | yes |
| [19:47:03] | wagnerrp: | what CPU? |
| [19:47:10] | ptriller: | atom dual core |
| [19:47:11] | kormoc: | sphery, it's the only way they're useful! |
| [19:47:20] | wagnerrp: | ION or ION2? |
| [19:47:45] | ptriller: | Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU 330 @ 1.60GHz |
| [19:47:56] | ptriller: | says /proc/cpuinfo |
| [19:47:59] | sphery: | kormoc: agreed :) |
| [19:48:10] | wagnerrp: | 1GB or 2GB of memory? |
| [19:48:32] | ptriller: | wagnerrp, 2 Gb |
| [19:48:35] | kormoc: | sphery, and I'm really tempted to say on the WAF theme thread that honestly I don't care, as I'm not the one sleeping on the couch due to the low WAF |
| [19:48:42] | ptriller: | VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation ION VGA (rev b1) |
| [19:48:57] | wagnerrp: | 2GB, with 512MB allocated to the graphics chip, should be sufficient |
| [19:49:10] | wagnerrp: | i wonder if youre running up against some memory bandwidth issue |
| [19:49:50] | wagnerrp: | the Atoms dont have any idle power down-clocking, so that shouldnt be it... |
| [19:49:58] | ptriller: | Well, I dont know, I can watch 720p dvb-c tv no problem I only get the problem with a 720p video with less bandwidth |
| [19:50:21] | wagnerrp: | with... less bandwidth? |
| [19:50:47] | ptriller: | well, the original file was 9 Gb and after handbrake now its 2 Gb and when I watch it now I get the hangups |
| [19:51:00] | ptriller: | both were h264, |
| [19:51:01] | wagnerrp: | chances are you used bad encoding options |
| [19:51:13] | wagnerrp: | ones that made the file unusable by VDPAU |
| [19:51:38] | wagnerrp: | too many reference frames would be the likely culprit |
| [19:53:26] | ptriller: | hmm, can I modify how the mythclient buffers the stream ? |
| [19:53:32] | kormoc: | no |
| [19:53:45] | wagnerrp: | its not a function of mythtv buffering the data |
| [19:53:59] | wagnerrp: | its a function of VDPAU being a statically defined hardware decoder |
| [19:54:13] | wagnerrp: | and you are feeding it video outside the bounds of its supported profile |
| [19:54:41] | ptriller: | ah, ok I understand |
| [19:56:13] | ptriller: | I was more thinking of the networkbuffering, because the hanging pictures aways happen in sync with the datatransfert just starting up again. |
| [19:57:13] | kormoc: | did you transcode this file and keep it in the recorded programs section or is it in the mythvideo section? |
| [19:57:57] | ptriller: | its in both |
| [19:58:09] | ptriller: | my thranscoded is in videos |
| [19:58:33] | kormoc: | okay, but the file in the recorded section is still the original? |
| [19:58:40] | ptriller: | yes |
| [19:58:43] | kormoc: | okay |
| [19:58:58] | wagnerrp: | ptriller: basically, hes concerned about the seek table being bad data |
| [19:59:54] | ptriller: | ok,I didnt touch the recoerded program because mythttranscode messes up the audio with my hdtv stream |
| [20:00:31] | sphery: | kormoc: next fix for #8585 is in--includes the oldrecorded change you found |
| [20:00:38] | kormoc: | snazzysauce |
| [20:00:48] | sphery: | er, recordinginfo |
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| [20:01:11] | sphery: | waiting for you to find the next invalid pattern |
| [20:01:24] | kormoc: | I'll update and give her a run for a bit |
| [20:02:26] | sphery: | kormoc: there are 2 more lines I have to check out... libs/libmyth/programinfo.cpp +4148 and +4234 both pass QVariants to bindValue(). Just have to verify that Qt isn't using toString() on them |
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| [20:11:03] | ptriller: | wagnerrp, sphery : 2011-03–02 21:04:51.985 Player(4): Waited 100ms for video buffers AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
| [20:11:25] | wagnerrp: | normal message due to excess default verbosity |
| [20:11:33] | wagnerrp: | everyone gets them |
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| [20:12:24] | sphery: | ptriller: if you get them excessively--and they coincide with the video playback issues--it means your audio configuration is causing problems |
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| [20:13:00] | ptriller: | yea, they are in sync, ok I will check my audio config |
| [20:13:38] | wagnerrp: | youre not actually keeping those recordings at 720p50, at 2mbps, are you? |
| [20:15:43] | wagnerrp: | sphery: do you have a /usr/share/hwdata? |
| [20:16:26] | sphery: | kormoc: btw, those programinfo lines are good... it's always passing types as QVariant, so no need for us to make them QDateTime |
| [20:16:42] | kormoc: | Coolness |
| [20:17:00] | ptriller: | wagnerrp, its the "High Profile' setting of HandBrake, |
| [20:17:03] | sphery: | (which means all our .toDateTime() and .toString() and ... calls in bindValue() calls are useless...) |
| [20:17:07] | sphery: | wagnerrp: no |
| [20:17:17] | wagnerrp: | ptriller: i dont know what that means |
| [20:17:25] | sphery: | wagnerrp: do you know what app creates it? I'm guessing I don't have it installed |
| [20:17:36] | wagnerrp: | 'High Profile' is a very broad reaching profile for h264 |
| [20:17:59] | sphery: | especially for an Atom/ION, right? |
| [20:18:03] | kormoc: | HandBrake's general-purpose preset for High Profile H.264 video, with all the bells and whistles. https://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/BuiltInPresets#highprofile |
| [20:18:10] | kormoc: | also known as unsupported by VDPAU |
| [20:18:16] | sphery: | oh, you don't mean VDPAU High Quality playback profile group... nvm |
| [20:18:36] | ptriller: | kormoc, ok, any place where I can get settings good for VPDU ? |
| [20:18:57] | wagnerrp: | anything designed for DXVA should work |
| [20:19:11] | wagnerrp: | better to just buy more hard drive space |
| [20:19:22] | wagnerrp: | than waste CPU time and electricity transcoding |
| [20:19:31] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, you knew what the -q values that were safe, no? |
| [20:19:48] | wagnerrp: | especially since youre already using h264 from the source |
| [20:20:03] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: -q is the quantizer setting, which controls the bitrate |
| [20:20:10] | wagnerrp: | nothing really safe or unsafe about it |
| [20:20:27] | kormoc: | ahh, my mistake, I thought there was some setting that had to be under 16 or so |
| [20:20:53] | wagnerrp: | although a -q20 on 1280x720p50 should have resulted somewhere around 6–8mbps, depending on the content |
| [20:21:04] | wagnerrp: | cell shaded would be significantly less, heavy grain would result in more |
| [20:21:34] | wagnerrp: | the '16' value is the number of reference frames |
| [20:21:55] | kormoc: | ahh, gotcha |
| [20:21:59] | wagnerrp: | a decoder designed for a certain level and profile will have a certain amount of memory for storage of macroblocks |
| [20:22:27] | wagnerrp: | the resolution and reference frame count will determine how many stored macroblocks would be needed to decode the content |
| [20:22:45] | wagnerrp: | for VDPAU and 720p content, i thought the safe value was 11 |
| [20:23:32] | wagnerrp: | sphery: looking at the new smolt stuff, as opposed to the smolt stuff currently in master |
| [20:23:40] | wagnerrp: | seems they dropped dbus/hal |
| [20:23:50] | wagnerrp: | for sysfs and whatever is in this /usr/share/hwdata |
| [20:24:13] | wagnerrp: | i cant see anything that would be generating that data |
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| [20:25:03] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, it's a installed package, it's not generated |
| [20:25:15] | kormoc: | "hwdata contains various hardware identification and configuration data, |
| [20:25:15] | kormoc: | such as the pci.ids database, the XFree86 Cards and MonitorsDb databases." |
| [20:25:23] | wagnerrp: | oh... ok |
| [20:25:29] | wagnerrp: | is that something that comes with lspci? |
| [20:25:58] | kormoc: | I don't know. I found this: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/1 . . . rch.rpm.html |
| [20:26:01] | kormoc: | but it doesn't explain much |
| [20:26:07] | wagnerrp: | no, i have lspci installed |
| [20:26:51] | kormoc: | sys-apps/hwdata-gentoo |
| [20:27:19] | kormoc: | ahh |
| [20:27:35] | kormoc: | it's used by sys-apps/hwsetup Hardware setup program from Knoppix – used only on LiveCD |
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| [20:28:01] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, hal package contains pci.ids |
| [20:28:56] | wagnerrp: | ive got a pcitable, but not a pci.ids |
| [20:29:35] | sphery: | wagnerrp: http://pciids.sourceforge.net/ ( http://pciids.sourceforge.net/v2.2/pci.ids ) + http://www.linux-usb.org/ ( http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids )~ |
| [20:30:06] | wagnerrp: | i wonder if we should just package our own of that, and just once a month update the copy |
| [20:30:16] | sphery: | er, guess it's not in hal--but you need an updated one before compiling/installing/running hal |
| [20:30:19] | sphery: | nvm |
| [20:30:48] | wagnerrp: | maybe thats why i could never get HAL working |
| [20:31:16] | sphery: | I think they come from pciutils and usbutils, respectively |
| [20:31:42] | sphery: | (where I think pciutils contains lspci) |
| [20:31:44] | wagnerrp: | ive got both installed |
| [20:32:52] | sphery: | do you have an update-usbids and update-pciids (typically in /usr/sbin ) |
| [20:33:18] | wagnerrp: | got both |
| [20:33:31] | sphery: | they should grab the newest copy that's compatible with your version |
| [20:33:38] | sphery: | and put it wherever your system expects it |
| [20:33:54] | sphery: | (though on my system, they don't seem to handle an already-existing copy well) |
| [20:34:11] | wagnerrp: | they did something, cant for the life of me tell where they put it |
| [20:34:22] | kormoc: | strace! |
| [20:34:24] | sphery: | ah, they handle it... but put it in a *.old |
| [20:35:07] | sphery: | wagnerrp: the top of each script should have a line like: DEST=/usr/share/pci.ids |
| [20:35:19] | sphery: | these are real apps--bourne shell scripts |
| [20:35:26] | sphery: | not cheesy executables |
| [20:35:34] | wagnerrp: | ah, /usr/share/misc/pci.ids.gz |
| [20:35:43] | sphery: | heh, distro fun |
| [20:35:53] | sphery: | each distro puts it where they want |
| [20:36:07] | sphery: | funny that Smolt is looking for it where Red Hat puts theirs |
| [20:36:17] | wagnerrp: | so... do we manage that on our own? or expect the packagers patch that for us? |
| [20:36:20] | sphery: | (versus the default location, where I have mine--right inside /usr/share) |
| [20:36:28] | sphery: | heh, good question |
| [20:36:42] | sphery: | is there a #smolt? |
| [20:37:08] | wagnerrp: | indeed there is |
| [20:37:13] | wagnerrp: | however there is not a #molt |
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| [20:38:04] | wagnerrp: | and jams is there |
| [20:38:20] | kormoc: | that guy... he's everywhere! |
| [20:38:27] | lyricnz (lyricnz!~simonrobe@ppp118-209-128-97.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [20:39:41] | sphery: | so, if I wanted to lean how to shed my old skin, I can't find out on freenode... |
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| [20:39:50] | sphery: | guess I have to learn to molt elsewhere |
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| [20:40:14] | sphery: | maybe #python ? |
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| [20:43:33] | wagnerrp: | i thought molting was what birds did |
| [20:44:46] | kormoc: | Did, Do, and Will. It's like a never ending stream of features at times |
| [20:44:49] | wagnerrp: | ... didnt realize it was the general term for all of that |
| [20:45:02] | kormoc: | *feathers |
| [20:45:07] | kormoc: | wow... |
| [20:45:38] | wagnerrp: | sphery: what distro do you run? |
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| [20:52:44] | ** sphery refuses to answer said question ** | |
| [20:53:30] | sphery: | wagnerrp: birds, too |
| [20:53:37] | sphery: | and bugs and crabs and ... |
| [20:53:58] | ** kormoc wonders what sphery is hidding... perhaps he should call homeland security and get them to investigate this creature loving techno hiding 'citizen' ** | |
| [20:54:11] | sphery: | heh |
| [20:54:13] | wagnerrp: | was just curious as to what put the pci.ids straight in /usr/share |
| [20:54:24] | wagnerrp: | seems suse does |
| [20:54:24] | sphery: | the upstream package does |
| [20:54:30] | wagnerrp: | i can check that |
| [20:54:32] | skd5aner: | he runs either spherbuntu or spherdora |
| [20:54:44] | sphery: | it's only in subdirs if you specify a different location on compile |
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| [20:57:44] | wagnerrp: | i seem to have lost a coworker |
| [20:57:53] | wagnerrp: | his car is here, his stuff is here |
| [20:57:56] | wagnerrp: | hes nowhere to be found |
| [20:58:00] | sphery: | did you check under the couch cushions? |
| [20:58:19] | wagnerrp: | he could be hiding in the giant AC units |
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| [21:07:19] | sphery: | what's up with users with e-mail clients that send their own words as a quote? |
| [21:07:27] | sphery: | but is /is/ blue... |
| [21:07:41] | wagnerrp: | are you saying their words are not quote-worthy? |
| [21:08:58] | sphery: | heh |
| [21:09:37] | sphery: | I am biased on the matter--as it's someone in the merge of ui and osd themes thread who's saying something I disagree with :) |
| [21:09:39] | wagnerrp: | i have a geforce 7100 and i thought id try vdpau, but its not working! |
| [21:10:18] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: i think that whole email is suspect |
| [21:10:25] | wagnerrp: | my parents have an E6300 |
| [21:10:34] | skd5aner: | I've got to admit, the OSD/theme seperation argument is pretty dumb... I was confused by the decision for about 5 seconds, then realized it really doesn't matter |
| [21:10:34] | wagnerrp: | its a 1.86 GHz Core2Duo |
| [21:10:46] | wagnerrp: | not a 2.8GHz Pentium Dual Core |
| [21:11:30] | wagnerrp: | oh wait, there really are two different E6300 processors |
| [21:11:33] | wagnerrp: | WTF intel? |
| [21:11:35] | skd5aner: | My folks came to visit over the last weekend – they managed to freeze up myth twice |
| [21:12:11] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [21:12:25] | Beirdo: | aren't newbie users great for finding those odd bugs? |
| [21:12:33] | wagnerrp: | http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=27248 http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=41493 |
| [21:12:39] | wagnerrp: | WTF is up with that? |
| [21:12:45] | skd5aner: | yup – 2.5 times actually, but I knew one of the bugs was already fixed in -fixes and hadn't updated yet |
| [21:12:45] | Beirdo: | go, Intel |
| [21:12:53] | wagnerrp: | seriously, is it really that hard to not reuse numbers? |
| [21:13:53] | Beirdo: | 26 letters and 9999 numbers... and they had to repeat |
| [21:15:04] | skd5aner: | great... I have an E6400, that'll get confusing when they dupe that |
| [21:16:15] | RockHound (RockHound!~quassel@d033015.adsl.hansenet.de) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [21:17:12] | wagnerrp: | ah hah! https://github.com/syphr42/libmythtv-java |
| [21:17:15] | wagnerrp: | thats what hes doing |
| [21:17:22] | wagnerrp: | knew he had to be doing something with the protocol |
| [21:18:58] | wagnerrp: | sphery: that ones all yours ^^^^ |
| [21:21:09] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: what's his intentions? |
| [21:21:22] | wagnerrp: | writing java bindings for mythtv |
| [21:22:02] | skd5aner: | I was going to guess that – is that something that's welcome or is he running off and doing it on his own for no good reason? |
| [21:22:35] | skd5aner: | "Please note that this project and its author are not in any way affiliated with the MythTV project and are in no way endorsed by that project or its authors." |
| [21:22:48] | skd5aner: | http://syphr.org/libmythtv-java/ and https://launchpad.net/libmythtv-java |
| [21:22:58] | wagnerrp: | hes perfectly welcome to, im saying sphery might want to watch it to see if we want to include it and make it endorsed by this project and its authors |
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| [21:23:23] | wagnerrp: | well written bindings are always welcome (unless theyre for bash) |
| [21:23:24] | wagnerrp: | :) |
| [21:24:10] | skd5aner: | heh – wasn't sure if this was one of those "well fine, I'll go write it myself" cases :) |
| [21:24:24] | skd5aner: | (in a negative way) |
| [21:24:32] | Beirdo: | Java bindings? |
| [21:24:36] | wagnerrp: | there are no java bindings for him to have that attitude about |
| [21:24:40] | wagnerrp: | none official anyway |
| [21:24:40] | Beirdo: | eww |
| [21:24:48] | Beirdo: | there's my attitude |
| [21:24:57] | wagnerrp: | there are two or three abandoned projects to write a set of them |
| [21:26:02] | sphery: | wagnerrp: heh, just because it uses most of the letters I use in my nick, doesn't mean I have to help :) |
| [21:26:22] | wagnerrp: | im just pointing at you because you know java |
| [21:26:47] | sphery: | yeah, I'm not against it |
| [21:27:06] | sphery: | but will let it grow a bit before looking it over too much :) |
| [21:27:11] | caelor (caelor!~caelor@93-97-184-87.zone5.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [21:27:21] | wagnerrp: | fair enough |
| [21:27:37] | sphery: | pom.xml... wonder what uses that |
| [21:27:46] | sphery: | ah, maven |
| [21:27:58] | ** sphery is an ant fan-ant-ic ** | |
| [21:28:18] | wagnerrp: | ant? |
| [21:28:25] | sphery: | java build tool |
| [21:28:33] | jams: | awesome tool |
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| [21:28:47] | sphery: | what people who don't like maven use :) |
| [21:28:53] | ** jams remembers the days before ant ** | |
| [21:28:59] | sphery: | heh, yeah |
| [21:29:13] | sphery: | I can't imagine doing any of my commercial projects without ant |
| [21:29:23] | jams: | no thank you |
| [21:29:24] | sphery: | having each IDE do it's own ugly garbage... |
| [21:30:17] | sphery: | wagnerrp: fwiw, the high-level design looks pretty nice |
| [21:30:21] | sphery: | wonder who syphr42 is |
| [21:30:41] | sphery: | Ahhh... I've seen his name on list |
| [21:30:44] | jams: | at first i thought it was you |
| [21:30:45] | sphery: | G Moyer |
| [21:30:47] | wagnerrp: | gregory moyer, hes been doing some wiki edits recently |
| [21:31:11] | sphery: | ah, maybe it was the wiki, not the list |
| [21:31:48] | wagnerrp: | jams: the current smolt stuff in git seems to be working fine |
| [21:32:10] | wagnerrp: | (aside from complaining about a non-existent /etc/smolt directory) |
| [21:32:39] | wagnerrp: | although im surprised by the gentoo-specific stuff they pull out |
| [21:32:49] | jams: | oh a gentoo dev did that |
| [21:33:20] | jams: | he also broke some of my stuff that i have to fix |
| [21:33:31] | wagnerrp: | well i figured it wasnt a fedora dev |
| [21:33:44] | jams: | yeah he came in make abunch of changes and left |
| [21:33:52] | jams: | *made |
| [21:34:07] | wagnerrp: | also, i sent out the email to the developer list looking for what data people wanted to include |
| [21:34:19] | jams: | cool, please keep me informed |
| [21:34:32] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I may try to get in touch with him sometime--so I can let him know that we're not opposed to the idea (as well as create a channel of communication so I can give him a heads up on changes like recordedfile schema) |
| [21:34:37] | sphery: | thanks for the pointer |
| [21:35:35] | wagnerrp: | well it seems Beirdo is opposed to the idea... :) |
| [21:35:50] | sphery: | heh |
| [21:36:06] | sphery: | well, I think that's more a case of the ignorant being opposed to Java ;) |
| [21:36:11] | jams: | wagnerrp- is it picking up usb hardware for you? |
| [21:36:21] | jams: | it doesn't for me |
| [21:37:06] | wagnerrp: | i see ohci/ehci references |
| [21:37:16] | wagnerrp: | but it looks like its just picking up the root hubs on the PCI bus |
| [21:37:29] | CiaranG: | Mythmote on Android could make very good use of those java bindings |
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| [21:37:36] | jams: | was just going to say that |
| [21:37:59] | skd5aner: | who wrote mythmote? |
| [21:38:00] | jams: | the older client with hal picked up usb devices..like keyboards and usb tux fish thingy |
| [21:39:04] | CiaranG: | skd5aner: http://code.google.com/p/mythmote/people/list |
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| [21:39:41] | sphery: | wagnerrp: usb device permissions problems? (something like the "# libusb device nodes" line in /lib/udev/rules.d/50-udev-default.rules ?) |
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| [21:39:55] | wagnerrp: | sphery: not likely (im running as root) |
| [21:40:01] | sphery: | ahh |
| [21:40:32] | skd5aner: | what I'd really love is for things like mythmote to work in a 2-way fashion – where it's easily aware of status and could even send data like playback location, track/artist/album/albumart, video metadata, etc |
| [21:41:06] | kormoc: | skd5aner, they can do a fair bit of that |
| [21:41:21] | skd5aner: | "can" and "is implemented" are 2 different things :) |
| [21:41:24] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: well... not really |
| [21:41:32] | wagnerrp: | you can pick up playback location |
| [21:41:34] | jams: | sphery- I think it was left out during the conversion. I know the guy doing it was looking forward to it. |
| [21:41:38] | wagnerrp: | and you can see what menu youre in |
| [21:41:50] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, you can see what file it's playing, no? |
| [21:41:57] | wagnerrp: | yes |
| [21:42:00] | skd5aner: | I think MythDroid has a plug-in of sorts to extend some capabilities like that |
| [21:42:10] | jams: | yes it does |
| [21:42:16] | wagnerrp: | but for example, if youre in mythmusic or mythvideo, you cant see what item you have selected |
| [21:42:21] | skd5aner: | http://code.google.com/p/mythdroid/wiki/MDD |
| [21:42:44] | wagnerrp: | jams: which guy? |
| [21:43:06] | jams: | oops..was NOT looking forward to it |
| [21:43:24] | CiaranG: | Cool, didn't know about mythdroid |
| [21:43:45] | skd5aner: | I've not played with mythdroid at all – since it's not in the market, but looks to be a bit more complex and mythmote works really great for what it's designed to do, but I still usually only use it as a novelty or when my phone is the only thing within reach |
| [21:44:01] | wagnerrp: | jams: looks like in devicelist.py, its intentionally only pulling from pci |
| [21:44:04] | wagnerrp: | see BUS_LIST |
| [21:44:14] | jya (jya!~jya@mythtv/developer/jya) has quit (Quit: jya) | |
| [21:44:19] | wagnerrp: | its set up to handle both PCI and USB |
| [21:44:21] | wagnerrp: | its just not |
| [21:44:29] | wagnerrp: | wondering if theres some unresolved bug in there |
| [21:44:35] | jams: | perhaps |
| [21:44:50] | skd5aner: | what's really weird about MythDroid's "MDD" plugin is that it actually intercepts stuff that mythfrontend sends to mythlcdserver in order to determine what's going on... pretty clever, but definitely a hack |
| [21:44:55] | wagnerrp: | lets find out! |
| [21:49:19] | skd5aner: | hmmm, maybe I'll play with mythdroid sometime – looks pretty cool, and it's written by foobum |
| [21:49:38] | wagnerrp: | jams: who wasnt looking forward to what? |
| [21:49:59] | jams: | mmcgrath..the guy I was just talking to in #smolt |
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| [21:50:25] | jams: | smolt is his project |
| [21:51:08] | sphery: | mmcgrath... mark? |
| [21:51:44] | skd5aner: | any chance something like iphone and android controllers would ever become part of the actual mythtv codebase? |
| [21:52:20] | sphery: | If they were written properly, I wouldn't mind it |
| [21:52:28] | sphery: | but, as you mentioned above... |
| [21:52:57] | CiaranG: | skd5aner: I'm installing it now, I'll let you know how well it works |
| [21:53:00] | sphery: | the action rewrite--if it ever happens--might make it much easier to do correctly |
| [21:53:08] | skd5aner: | I mean, if foobum is the guy writing it, I would think he'd be writing it in such as way that it conforms to mythtv development guidelines and standards |
| [21:53:38] | sphery: | well, like you said, intercepting stuff off mythlcdserver comms is a hack |
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| [21:53:50] | sphery: | that's not the way it should be done in official code |
| [21:54:10] | skd5aner: | sphery: that's why I'm hoping that markk's little http experiment evolves into something that can provide that kind of data |
| [21:54:44] | sphery: | but if he submitted patches to change mythtv to allow a better design--or if he modified his when we fix up stuff (like the action rewrite, which is the sticky point for markk's http/UPnP stuff)... |
| [21:54:56] | wagnerrp: | skd5aner: the problem with foobum is that he wants to remain anonymous, which conflicts with the project |
| [21:55:14] | skd5aner: | hmmm, so you have to stick your name on any contributions? |
| [21:55:23] | sphery: | not on patches |
| [21:55:29] | skd5aner: | I like the pseudo-anonymous route too |
| [21:55:31] | sphery: | but if you want to be a project member |
| [21:55:53] | wagnerrp: | if someone is going to own a piece of code, they need to have a real name and person of contact |
| [21:56:00] | sphery: | we want people to take responsibility for their actions/code, as much as possible |
| [21:56:13] | sphery: | so that if someone is stealing code to put in mythtv, ... |
| [21:56:14] | wagnerrp: | so mythdroid could be added to the code base, but someone else would have to take ownership of it |
| [21:56:33] | skd5aner: | I see |
| [21:56:47] | wagnerrp: | not that he is or would do anything of that nature |
| [21:56:52] | sphery: | wagnerrp: just like how Rupert Murdoch got control of a large swath of US broadcast frequencies... |
| [21:57:05] | sphery: | i.e. someone else puts their name on it |
| [21:57:06] | wagnerrp: | buying it through other people? |
| [21:57:21] | sphery: | (since non-US-citizens can't own US broadcast frequencies) |
| [21:57:26] | kormoc: | skd5aner, a stranger might pick up some trash out of the yard from time to time but you wouldn't ask them to house sit until you got to know them better |
| [21:57:34] | CiaranG: | Kind of pointless him releasing mythdroid under the GPL if he can't claim copyright in the code |
| [21:57:44] | ** kormoc blinks ** | |
| [21:57:48] | sphery: | they put it in the name of some high-level employee who was a citizen |
| [21:58:00] | sphery: | kormoc: heh, awesome analogy |
| [21:58:23] | sphery: | CiaranG: in his project it's fine--just not something we're allowing in mythtv |
| [21:58:41] | sphery: | though if he needed to appear in court, I have a feeling a real name would be required |
| [21:58:47] | CiaranG: | Well it's fine, but it's pointless |
| [21:58:50] | CiaranG: | Yeah, exactly |
| [21:58:50] | wagnerrp: | CiaranG: he actually has a fair mount of code in mythtv |
| [21:58:51] | ** kormoc blinks ** | |
| [21:58:52] | sphery: | (when he's defending his copyright) |
| [21:59:12] | skd5aner: | yea, a huge portion of audio stuff |
| [21:59:18] | wagnerrp: | (i dont know how much but) he did a considerable part of the audio rewrite |
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| [21:59:22] | kormoc: | so it's pointless to release under a open license if you can't close it up whenever you wanted? |
| [21:59:32] | wagnerrp: | but jya has taken ownership of that code on his behalf |
| [21:59:41] | CiaranG: | It's pointless to release under the GPL if you can't enforce it, is what I mean |
| [22:00:21] | kormoc: | you don't have to enforce it, FSF will |
| [22:01:29] | laga: | you need to give the copyright to the FSF then, tho? |
| [22:01:54] | kormoc: | laga, no, you don't have to |
| [22:02:09] | kormoc: | they'll work to protect the GPL regardless of where the copyright currently sits. |
| [22:02:28] | kormoc: | as if they'll be successful or not without the copyright holder's help is another matter |
| [22:02:43] | CiaranG: | Pretty sure FSF won't enforce anything if it's not their copyright |
| [22:03:08] | laga: | okay. now assume i make a nifty little tool under the GPL which is included in consumer router software. the manufacturer refuses to release the source. how exactly is the FSf going to do anything about that? |
| [22:03:12] | CiaranG: | Even if they would, they couldn't if nobody claims copyright, which is the case with all the code in that project |
| [22:03:58] | kormoc: | laga, they take them to court over breach of contract |
| [22:04:01] | kormoc: | and they have before |
| [22:04:21] | laga: | kormoc: the FSF does not have a contract with the manufacturer AFAIK |
| [22:04:25] | kormoc: | CiaranG, they'll try. Like I said, success or not isn't the goal, they'll try |
| [22:04:49] | CiaranG: | kormoc: Are you sure about that? |
| [22:04:56] | kormoc: | laga, yes, which is why cooperation with the copyright holder helps a lot, but they'll still try |
| [22:05:59] | kormoc: | CiaranG, yes. They've certainly sent out notices to breachers in the past about this. I don't know of any case that actually went to legal, but they do try something |
| [22:07:03] | CiaranG: | kormoc: Well you may be right, but that's the opposite of everything I've ever read. Here, for example: http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2009/11/08/gpl-enforcement.html |
| [22:09:38] | JEDIDIAH___: | the fsf doesn't have standing to pursue violations on code it doesn't own. |
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| [22:37:48] | drindt: | my mythfrontend tell me that some channels are locked but thats impossible, also the locked channels got no epg update... someone can please please help me |
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| [22:39:05] | sphery: | drindt: locked = encrypted? |
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| [22:39:57] | drindt: | sphery: no, thats channels comming from a dvb-t usb stick, worked since months but now a lot of channels have a lock and cant be watched anymore |
| [22:41:21] | sphery: | I don't know what you mean by "have a lock" |
| [22:42:26] | drindt: | sphery: i would like to watch them then appears a dialog those told me that i could switch the input source and so on. |
| [22:43:19] | mycosys: | unable to get lock |
| [22:43:23] | mycosys: | or partial lock? |
| [22:43:25] | sphery: | drindt: so it means that something is recording from that multiplex? |
| [22:43:34] | sphery: | oh... unable to get lock |
| [22:43:36] | sphery: | got it... |
| [22:44:03] | sphery: | for that, typically your broadcaster changed something and you need to redo a channel scan |
| [22:44:25] | drindt: | ok i will do that now to ensure its working back again |
| [22:44:28] | mycosys: | or, you need an amp/better aerial/better splitter |
| [22:45:05] | mycosys: | even a fairly small buiding being put up can make a change that significantly impacts ur signal |
| [22:45:21] | mycosys: | as can changes in tx power to allow new broadcasters |
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| [22:46:16] | drindt: | mycosys: i understand your hint, but this setup is working for nearly a month and that with an untouched system... but since weeks more and more channels are disappearing in the epg and not watchable |
| [22:47:35] | sphery: | likely broadcaster changes... |
| [22:47:43] | sphery: | try a rescan |
| [22:47:49] | sphery: | oh, you said you would... nvm |
| [22:48:03] | ** sphery should read scrollback from the top down, not bottom up ** | |
| [22:48:08] | mycosys: | lol :) |
| [22:48:29] | AndyCap: | sphery: you're using outlook? :) |
| [22:48:40] | mycosys: | :O |
| [22:50:43] | sphery: | heh |
| [22:50:53] | sphery: | yeah, Outlook is the world's greatest IRC client :) |
| [22:50:55] | drindt: | i have now rescanned the channels, and now the setup told me that here exist channel conflicts, i am confused a lot |
| [22:51:19] | sphery: | drindt: heh, we, too, are confused by that message |
| [22:51:39] | sphery: | drindt: some people tell it to add all of them, then go through and delete the garbage |
| [22:51:50] | sphery: | drindt: others tell it not to add conflicts, and hope for the best |
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| [22:52:09] | sphery: | I'd have it add them and delete garbage--but only because I wouldn't want it to miss something important |
| [22:52:16] | drindt: | can i truncate the database table with the channel definitions by hand? |
| [22:52:27] | mycosys: | or, you could delete what you had and re-add em all, and reset up ur listings lol |
| [22:52:34] | drindt: | the conflicts are exact the channels i cant watch |
| [22:53:02] | mycosys: | since that is the case, delete those channels and do the scan again would be my bet |
| [22:53:14] | drindt: | ok try it ... |
| [22:53:21] | mycosys: | sphery – i was worried for a sec u were using M$ outlook lol |
| [22:54:23] | drindt: | sphery: a scan for new transponders is recommend? |
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| [22:54:40] | sphery: | this is DVB-S? If so, I don't know anything about it. |
| [22:54:57] | drindt: | dvb-t |
| [22:55:29] | sphery: | hmmm... still not sure |
| [22:55:39] | mycosys: | would scan existing transports |
| [23:05:39] | sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) | |
| [23:05:50] | sraue (sraue!~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:07:25] | jpabq- (jpabq-!~jpabq@71-37-148-206.albq.qwest.net) has quit (Read error: No route to host) | |
| [23:08:06] | drindt: | how can i fill the holes in my program guide? |
| [23:08:12] | jpabq (jpabq!~jpabq@mythtv/developer/jpabq) has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | |
| [23:08:54] | mycosys: | run ur grabber |
| [23:09:02] | mycosys: | where are you? |
| [23:09:25] | mycosys: | italy |
| [23:09:27] | drindt: | i just use the epg from the channels |
| [23:09:34] | drindt: | i am located in germany |
| [23:09:36] | mycosys: | then you wait |
| [23:09:47] | mycosys: | i would suggest getting a better source |
| [23:10:02] | drindt: | the other source costs money |
| [23:10:11] | kormoc: | drindt, you can try enabling active eit scanning if it's disabled |
| [23:10:19] | mycosys: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/XMLTV#Germany.2FAustria |
| [23:10:22] | drindt: | it is enabled now |
| [23:10:28] | kormoc: | there's nothing more you can do then |
| [23:10:36] | drindt: | kormoc: thanks for the info |
| [23:10:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: ot – but have you ever considered building a MAME cabinet? |
| [23:11:30] | mycosys: | have you tried the script i just linked you to? |
| [23:11:51] | mycosys: | the site it uses seems to be free |
| [23:11:56] | mycosys: | drindt |
| [23:12:23] | sphery: | J-e-f-f-A: I thought the idea would be cool when I first got into MythTV and heard people talking about it, but I don't have any ROMs and find using my XBox 360 (or for some games, playing on a Windows PC) to be easier/more my style |
| [23:12:27] | AndyCap: | J-e-f-f-A: great, now you reminded me of the cocktail machine I saw at a bar last weekend. |
| [23:12:46] | drindt: | mycosys: i tried it in past, but with not a lot of luck, so i wait for the epg guide data |
| [23:13:39] | mycosys: | seems they changed the site and broke the script – would be inclined to try again with the new one. up to you of course |
| [23:14:05] | mycosys: | i have had a lot of trouble with EIT constantly changing program name, stuffing up recording rules |
| [23:14:05] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery, AndyCap Hehehe... I started thinking about it about 6 or 7 years ago, then got into this thing called MythTV... And just recently started perusing it more. ;-) (when I got a cabinet for free, I started doing more...) |
| [23:15:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | AndyCap: Check it out: http://jartz.gotdns.com:8008/files/mame/ |
| [23:17:41] | sphery: | wow, while I'm typing a message to paul-h in #mythtv, he types one to me in #mythtv-theming... talk about timing |
| [23:20:09] | AndyCap: | J-e-f-f-A: oh wow, trackball even, playing crystal castles or marble madness? :P |
| [23:20:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | AndyCap: hehehe... I forgot about Marble Madness... |
| [23:22:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | AndyCap: I'm pretty proud of how good my homemade spinner came out. ;-) |
| [23:23:39] | Defense|Twin (Defense|Twin!~jepz@c220077.adsl.hansenet.de) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | |
| [23:24:16] | AndyCap: | J-e-f-f-A: looks good. |
| [23:24:47] | J-e-f-f-A: | AndyCap: Thanks! ;-) I'm pretty happy how it turned out. ;-) Better than I had expected. |
| [23:26:46] | mianos: | I got a basic X10 PC starter kit and hooked it up to my myth box to turn the Amplifier off. So easy! |
| [23:27:02] | drindt: | i cant undertsand why the channels table are going wrong that i cant watch it anymore, i looked into the service papers from the dvb-t provider and it doesnt told anything about new channel configuration |
| [23:27:13] | kormoc: | So a hard drive is too much money but X10 isn't eh? |
| [23:27:25] | mianos: | silence |
| [23:27:34] | AndyCap: | kormoc: I though X10 came in every cereal box |
| [23:27:38] | mianos: | why put a hard drive in when there is a SAN in the office |
| [23:27:53] | kormoc: | why worry about disk space if you have enough? |
| [23:28:13] | AndyCap: | nah, got to get some sleep. |
| [23:28:15] | mianos: | Yep, that's why I have a 30G SSD |
| [23:28:25] | mianos: | It was cheapest I could get. |
| [23:28:46] | ** kormoc faceplams ** | |
| [23:28:50] | mianos: | The other choice was a USB or flash boot, or bootp |
| [23:30:50] | mianos: | I got a light controller in the kit so I am going to dim the lights on the main fish tank when the leds arrive. |
| [23:31:27] | ptriller (ptriller!~ptriller@194.105.98.15.dynamic.cablesurf.de) has quit (Quit: Verlassend) | |
| [23:33:22] | ** J-e-f-f-A has X-10 throughout his house... but not currently controlled directly by Myth. ;-) ** | |
| [23:33:33] | LedHed (LedHed!~LedHed@static-74-45-162-66.dr01.pasn.ca.frontiernet.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving) | |
| [23:34:19] | mianos: | I put it on the linux box that's on all the time so the mythbox just talks to it remotely. That way I can fool around with some more stuff. |
| [23:34:49] | mianos: | J-e-f-f-A what software did you use? |
| [23:35:01] | J-e-f-f-A: | mianos: heyu ;-) |
| [23:35:07] | mianos: | OK |
| [23:35:26] | mianos: | I looked at that. |
| [23:35:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | mianos: I have the serial X-10 controller connected via a usb->Serial adapter. |
| [23:36:13] | Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~darren@66.87.2.254) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:36:44] | mianos: | I got a CM19A, USB |
| [23:36:56] | mianos: | talks RF to the socket based powerline sender |
| [23:37:06] | mycosys: | mianos just as an fyi – compact flash cards are IDE, they are minimal hassle to boot from |
| [23:38:46] | sphery: | J-e-f-f-A: nice box... |
| [23:38:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | mianos: Mine's a CM11A, serial. ;-) |
| [23:39:20] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: Wait a minute, I'm not a chick... Oh wait, you're talking about my Mame project... ;-) |
| [23:39:37] | sphery: | J-e-f-f-A: I'm looking forward to the pics of the finished product |
| [23:39:46] | sphery: | heh, yeah, the mame project :) |
| [23:40:17] | J-e-f-f-A: | sphery: Thanks, cool. ;-) So far the biggest expense was the controls, since I got everything else for free. ;-) (Oh, and my time...) |
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| [23:56:48] | sphery: | Pastebin.com is under heavy load right now, sorry... |
| [23:57:00] | sphery: | grrr... the 'verse doesn't want me to see wagnerrp's paste |
| [23:57:17] | kormoc: | can't stop the signal |
| [23:57:35] | ikonia (ikonia!~mattd@unaffiliated/ikonia) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| [23:57:56] | pizzledizzle (pizzledizzle!~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:58:15] | ikonia (ikonia!~mattd@unaffiliated/ikonia) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:58:59] | Jkessler (Jkessler!~jeremy@69-57-95-80.dsl.static.nccray.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:59:36] | ** wagnerrp is killed, with a sword ** | |
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