MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (189):

adante, alan`, aloril_, al_nz1, anderi, andreax, Anduin, AndyCap, antgel, anykey_, Azelphur, baffle, bbee, Beirdo, benc_, BigBeerJR, blizzard_, BLZbubba, brfransen, btwe_afk, Caeles, caelor, cafuego, Caliban, cal_, Captain_Murdoch, carter05_, Casper0082, castlec1, cattelan_away, chainsawbike, ChanServ, clever, ComradeHaz`, croppa, dagar, dansushi18, Dave123, Dave123-road, deaman, dewman, dibbz__, dlblog, dmb, dmz, dougl, elmojo, Elshar, eNeRGi, eyeoh, felipe`, FinnTux__, Flash__, Floppe, floppyears, ghoti, Gibby, gpd, GrahamIRC, GrahamS, gregL, GreyFoxx, grndslm, grokky_, grumpydevil, Guest98834, GWG, hackman_, Hadaka, hadees, hashbang, Heliwr, high-rez, highzeth, Hoxzer, iamlindoro, J-e-f-f-A, jamesd2, jamiem, jams, jannau, jarle, jbrett, jcarlos, jduggan, JEDIDIAH__, johnf1911, jokajak, jpabq, jpabq-, justdave, justinh, justinh1, justpaul, k-man, KaZeR, keith4, kloeri, knightr, kormoc, KraMer, kurol, kurre, LabMonkey, larrikin, LedHed, leprechau, linuxtech, lotia, Lunar_Lamp, M0nk3Ee, mag0o, markk_, mcl0vin, Metoer, mgolisch, mhentges, mikeones, mike|2, mishehu, mrec, MythLogBot, mzb, n0tk, nEo-1664, npm, nuonguy, nutron, Patang, Patina, peterpops, pheld, pigeon, PointyPumper, psycodad, purserj, quicksilver, rdark, RDV_Linux, redwizard_kde, rellig, rhpot1991, Roedy, rooaus, ruskie, russell5, Shadow__X, sid3windr, simcop2387, simonckenyon, skd5aner, soreau, sphery, Splat1, squidly, sraue, st1nga, staylo, stuartm, sulx, sutula, tank-man, tgm4883, thefRont, ThisNewGuy1, tictric_, tomaw, tomimo, toorima, tris, troldrik, troyt, Twiggy2cents, ubIx, wagnerrp, Waterman, waxhead_, weta, wilberarch, xand, XChatMav, xris, xtort-, yatesy, yu210148, zand__, _abbenormal, _charly_, `oobe`
Wednesday, January 19th, 2011, 00:05 UTC
[00:05:36] dewman: ok one more question....Does the call sign matter under the channel info or is it just the xmltvid that truly matters. In the past I changed the call sign to match what schedules direct had listed. So for example the call sign that the scan found was wnem-hd but for schedules direct it shows as wnem-dt1
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[00:11:31] wagnerrp: yes, the xmltvid is the only thing that matters for lookup
[00:11:59] iamlindoro: Ooof, Macbook Pro needs a painful number of updates downloaded
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[00:17:43] sphery: So, SMART didn't warn me about the 2 drives that did fail for me in the last 2 1/2 months. However, the old 200GB Hitachi Deskstar that started clicking very badly in Nov 2008 has been showing SMART warnings about "a lot of bad sectors", and it's still going strong.
[00:21:33] iamlindoro: not so SMART
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[00:37:35] nutron: sphery: could you suggest a path I take in trying to figure out my late recordings? It's not the channel change script. I just can't understand why it tries to reschedule 2 mins in.
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[00:38:07] nutron: Is there anything else I can look into? Maybe I'm not understanding the logs correctly?
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[00:39:05] sphery: nutron: doing a reschedule 2 minutes after recordings start is standard
[00:39:56] sphery: is that reschedule doing something? i.e. unless your listings data is changing in the interim, I can't see it being related (or are you saying that the reschedule is over-taxing and causes your system to be resource-starved and recordings to fail?)
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[00:40:38] sphery: the post-new-recording reschedule is to see if we need to change upcoming recordings based on max episodes, etc.
[00:40:56] sphery: anytime we change currently-recorded episodes (or recording rules or ...), we need a reschedule
[00:41:17] JEDIDIAH__: how closely were you watching the smart info though?
[00:41:28] dewman: wagnerrp, thanks.
[00:42:15] nutron: sphery: not failing, they just start 2 minutes in.
[00:44:32] nutron: sphery that makes sense... they just start late almost all of them
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[00:53:39] JEDIDIAH__: are any of the '%who-needs-indexes%' selects pre-computed or is all of that done every time the scheduler is run?
[00:53:45] nutron: what can I do to get more info...? up the log level? can I call hooks anywhere?
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[00:59:57] sphery: nutron: can you post a backend log with default verbosity showing around 15min before a recording starts and after it ends
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[01:00:25] sphery: nutron: the only thing I can think of that would make MythTV start all recordings late is if all recording rules have a -2min start early on them
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[01:01:18] k-man: do the -debug options get passed from mythwelcome to mythfrontend when it runs?
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[01:03:53] sphery: k-man: by -debug, I assume you mean -v verbosity? (but I guess even if that's what you're asking, I don't know...  :( )
[01:04:48] k-man: sphery: yeah, i meant -v playback, i dunno what planet i was on
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[01:10:39] nutron: sphery: yeah I'll take a 15 min log, I'll strip the no keyframe stuff out though.
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[01:15:08] nutron: Just attach it to the -users list?
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[01:15:41] m4xx|home: my remote doesn't seem to work while in livetv mode but works fine on main menu
[01:15:46] m4xx|home: anyone experience this?
[01:15:46] nutron: sphery: and no, from what I can tell, after going over the settings for what feels like the bajillionth time.. no nothing is set to record late/early
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[01:41:42] sphery: nutron: ok (but that's not a setting--it's an option within a specific recording rule... mentioning just in case)
[01:42:20] Beirdo: why does this always happen to me?
[01:42:25] sphery: nutron: it could also happen if your computers have differeing times on them, such as a master backend being 2min behind remote backends
[01:42:36] Beirdo: I have all my toys... and no flippin power bar
[01:42:48] sphery: heh
[01:43:25] Beirdo: have it almost completely wired up, but nowhere to plug crap in
[01:43:28] Beirdo: bah
[01:44:00] Beirdo: the only ones I *might* have are inside the coffee table... that the changer unit is sitting on
[01:44:11] Beirdo: booo
[01:44:24] Beirdo: that'll teach me to clean up.
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[02:08:44] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: the windows scripts builds an executable installer?
[02:09:26] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, http://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/9493
[02:09:33] iamlindoro: The Windows builds produce a runtime installation and a self extracting installer that will run on Windows 2k and later.
[02:09:46] wagnerrp: ill have to look into cross compiling then
[02:10:01] iamlindoro: Think cross compiling just produces a zip
[02:10:06] iamlindoro: at least, it did before
[02:10:08] wagnerrp: thats good enough
[02:10:32] wagnerrp: ive just been reluctant to do compiling on windows due to all the non-standard crap you have to get installed to make it work
[02:10:51] wagnerrp: and the guy who has been releasing windows builds just doesnt do it frequently enough for trunk
[02:11:57] wagnerrp: commercial detection would certainly be more comfortable on a 2.8 Core2 than a 1.9 AthXP
[02:12:11] wagnerrp: s/commercial detection/cutlist editing/
[02:14:42] k-man: anyone know a good shortbread recipe?
[02:15:21] wagnerrp: sorry, mythrecipe was removed from the repository several years ago
[02:15:59] iamlindoro: s/was removed from/was never in/
[02:16:35] wagnerrp: sorry, mythrecipe has not been compatible with any of the last half dozen releases of mythtv
[02:16:50] k-man: heh
[02:16:53] k-man: sorry, wrong window
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[02:17:11] k-man: but you never know, mythtv geeks might also like shortbread ;)
[02:17:28] wagnerrp: thats why they make girlscouts
[02:17:50] iamlindoro: I love to cook and bake... but I'm also an Ironman sooooo... you'd need to settle for the healthy version
[02:18:16] wagnerrp: i make bowl food
[02:19:00] wagnerrp: soups, stews, chili, pasta... but i cant plate anything up beyond a burger
[02:19:16] iamlindoro: heh
[02:19:26] iamlindoro: I made a lamb vindaloo for dinner, that can be served in a bowl
[02:20:57] skd5aner: I had a free dinner, which is commonly agreed to, as the /best/ kind of dinner
[02:21:15] kormoc: Home made pasta, Home made sauce
[02:21:39] kormoc: (If it's made by hand in the same building that I live in, it counts as Homemade, right?)
[02:22:07] wagnerrp: heh, was going to ask what you used to make the noodles
[02:22:20] skd5aner: I think anything not made in a factory or mass-produced can be considered home made for the most part
[02:22:27] skd5aner: (now-a-days)
[02:22:49] kormoc: Yeah, they make the stuff by hand every day fresh
[02:23:09] skd5aner: they mill the wheat and harvest the water from the ground by pale?
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[02:23:30] kormoc: They do mill the grains but the water is from the tap
[02:23:38] wagnerrp: my sister does that, has this funky attachment that bolts onto the front of a cuisinart
[02:23:55] skd5aner: wagnerrp: cuisinart or kitchenaid?
[02:23:56] iamlindoro: cuisinart, or stand mixer?
[02:24:01] iamlindoro: beat me to it
[02:24:05] iamlindoro: the latter is very common
[02:24:13] iamlindoro: (and I own it ;) )
[02:24:15] wagnerrp: err, the big stand mixer
[02:24:18] skd5aner: I would bet kitchenaid stand mixer (as iamlindoro also mentioned) ;)
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[02:24:28] wagnerrp: cuisinart is the blender?
[02:24:39] iamlindoro: cuisinart is a brand, but most commonly a food processor
[02:24:42] skd5aner: yea, I have one too, although the pasta attachment is the only attachment I don't think we've ever used with it though :)
[02:24:54] iamlindoro: I even have the meat grinder attachment
[02:25:00] kormoc: Cuisinart mixers are more common these days
[02:25:09] skd5aner: yup, just got a cuisinart 9-cup food processor last Oct, had the stand mixer for like 7 years though
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[02:25:26] wagnerrp: must be a kitchenaid, i dont see front attach points on the cuisinart mixers
[02:25:35] skd5aner: iamlindoro: heh, I don't have that... I'm happy to go to the butcher for any of my sausage needs
[02:25:42] kormoc: wagnerrp, the front swings open
[02:25:43] wagnerrp: yeah, that looks like what weve got
[02:25:44] skd5aner: or just trust Jimmy Dean ;)
[02:25:59] ** iamlindoro has lots of special training diet needs **
[02:26:00] kormoc: wagnerrp, http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ggJZDc-6L._SS500_.jpg
[02:26:01] iamlindoro: plus, I love toys
[02:26:08] iamlindoro: as much in the kitchen as in the theater
[02:26:10] wagnerrp: skd5aner: oh ill bet you like the butcher's sausage
[02:26:29] iamlindoro: TWSS
[02:26:47] skd5aner: kormoc, wagnerrp: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kitc . . . &bih=905
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[02:27:51] sphery: I bought a Kitchenaid stand mixer the day I got my first apartment. (And, here, 17 years later, it's still going strong.)
[02:27:51] wagnerrp: weve got one of these... http://ai.pricegrabber.com/pi/0/09/09/909679_640.jpg
[02:27:53] skd5aner: wagnerrp: oh yea, well.... your mom! BOOO YAH. BURN!
[02:27:55] skd5aner: :s
[02:28:06] sphery: Bought it before I bought pots, pans, plates, utensils, ...
[02:28:21] kormoc: I need a new frying pan
[02:28:27] wagnerrp: oh, i could tell you a story or two about your mom
[02:28:44] sphery: I used the pasta maker on my parents when I was in high school, but now I use a hand-cranked one
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[02:28:56] skd5aner: sphery: YOU USED IT ON YOUR PARENTS?!?!
[02:28:59] wagnerrp: sphery: i think you left out a few key words there
[02:29:03] sphery: and I did make sausage with it
[02:29:11] sphery: but never milled grains
[02:29:18] skd5aner: SOYLENT GREEN IS SPHERY'S PARENTS!!!!!
[02:29:20] sphery: oops, "on my parents'"
[02:29:27] kormoc: Cast Iron pans++
[02:29:31] sphery: possessive is important here
[02:30:45] JEDIDIAH__: good kit pays for itself, regardless of context.
[02:31:05] skd5aner: Was your Mom an angel hair and your dad a fettucini?
[02:31:12] sphery: heh
[02:31:22] sphery: fucilli, actually--like Jerry
[02:31:44] sphery: Seinfeld made me do it, your honor!
[02:31:59] skd5aner: Is this going to hurt?
[02:32:02] skd5aner: oh yes, very much
[02:32:32] skd5aner: sorry – that was the last episode I watched... random Seinfeld quote mood
[02:32:38] skd5aner: and i'm off, later folks
[02:32:51] wagnerrp: to the butchers no doubt
[02:36:16] nutron: sphery: yeah that's what I meant about settings... went through all 200+ recording rules and I saw nothin' nada zilch about starting early/late
[02:36:27] nutron: ok back to the noodle convo...
[02:36:40] nutron: I'm hungary!
[02:36:56] nutron: Beirdo what kind of free chow did ya score?
[02:36:57] JEDIDIAH__: I'm Austria
[02:36:58] wagnerrp: the whole country?
[02:37:17] nutron: Aye.
[02:37:29] nutron: magyar == nutron
[02:37:54] wagnerrp: JEDIDIAH__: i think nutron just killed your prince
[02:38:10] JEDIDIAH__: I though that was a Bosnian.
[02:38:16] JEDIDIAH__: or was it a Serbian.
[02:38:21] JEDIDIAH__: hard to keep track of them all.
[02:38:22] ** nutron marries JEDIDIAH__ and we make an empire **
[02:38:27] nutron: Serbian
[02:39:07] nutron: So this git stuff... How's everyone feel 'bout it? Still lovin' the rapid development by the masses?
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[02:42:16] wagnerrp: rapid development by the masses?
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[02:46:12] sphery: wagnerrp: it /did/ double the line count of MythTV
[02:46:24] sphery: and the project value
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[02:46:42] iamlindoro: which we now proudly display on trac
[02:46:45] iamlindoro: how can I get bought out?
[02:47:09] sphery: heh
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[02:50:04] kormoc: Yeah, I'll cash out now
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[02:53:21] zoran119: hey, i have a recording which says it being currently recording (and has been like that for 2 days)...
[02:53:27] zoran119: but it is not being recorded
[02:53:43] cal_: just installed .24 and getting 'taking too long to be allowed to read' when going to live tv. worked in .23 , any ideas?
[02:53:47] zoran119: how do i get rid of it?
[02:55:08] wagnerrp: restart your backend
[02:55:23] cal_: zoran or me? lol
[02:55:35] wagnerrp: zoran119,
[02:55:40] kormoc: everyone! All at once!
[02:56:07] zoran119: wagnerrp: a restart of the backend fixed it
[02:56:31] cal_: wagnerrp: could my problem be a permissions issue to the video file it's trying to write too?
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[03:00:19] zoran119: wagnerrp: thank you
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[03:14:04] Gibby: I am trying to change my vdpaubuffersize but I can't figure out where it goes, help please :)!
[03:18:02] wagnerrp: the filter line in the playback profile
[03:18:58] Gibby: definetly don't see a filter line anywhere
[03:19:30] Gibby: maybe to many beers but i am not seeing it anywhere on screen 3
[03:21:56] wagnerrp: so No Ordinary Family did a Die Hard episode tonight
[03:22:31] wagnerrp: doesnt come close to stargate's...
[03:22:58] Gibby: so is i am supposed to add a new playback profile?
[03:23:12] wagnerrp: no
[03:23:18] wagnerrp: edit an existing
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[03:26:26] Gibby: ahhh found it finally
[03:26:54] wagnerrp: man, thats like the best episode of that whole series
[03:27:05] Gibby: after months of dealing with artifacts fixed it lol
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[03:35:18] Gibby: so vdpaubuffersize is in what? mb? is it the size of the buffer being used on the GPU?
[03:36:06] wagnerrp: that setting is only useful for dealing with non-compliant video
[03:36:18] Gibby: will it fixed about 10 of my movies so far
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[03:36:46] wagnerrp: what do you have it set to?
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[03:39:14] Gibby: 32 since it what i saw in most of the forums, someone said 50 is the max and 42 is good on the ION I have
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[03:40:19] wagnerrp: seems awfully high
[03:41:21] wagnerrp: if that setting is what i think it is, you shouldnt need more than 10
[03:41:36] wagnerrp: and values are not better or worse for one card or another
[03:41:45] wagnerrp: it is dependent on the video, not the hardware
[03:42:16] wagnerrp: you need to allocate enough memory to store all needed reference frames
[03:42:47] wagnerrp: for 1920x1080 frames, level 4.1, you need to store at least three frames, or 9.5MB of data
[03:45:19] wagnerrp: Gibby: honestly, thats a setting that should never be tinkered with
[03:45:32] wagnerrp: should you need to use it to support playback of some content
[03:45:42] wagnerrp: either you or your local broadcaster is doing something very wrong
[03:45:46] Gibby: but i had artifacts before on a l4.1 setting it to 32 and i have no more
[03:46:25] wagnerrp: could i see the x264 string you used for encoding?
[03:46:48] Gibby: but if it is on a dedicated FE, there should be no downside to having a larger # then right? but I will test lower numbers
[03:47:15] wagnerrp: larger number allocated there means you could be starving other bits for memory
[03:47:31] Gibby: is there a default?
[03:47:38] wagnerrp: unset
[03:48:13] Gibby: my dad encodes the movies and i give him the tv episodes i record and we just swap usb drives at work every few days
[03:49:18] Gibby: i will ask him how he is encoding them, he was using l 5 and i told him i needed them at 4.1 since i had artifacts and that is what i was told was causing it,so he re did a handful and i still had artifacts
[03:49:22] wagnerrp: get the profile he uses, hes probably doing something improper
[03:49:53] Gibby: but most of them 90% work from him which is weird
[03:51:46] Gibby: so back to the number of frames to store..... it is based of of resolution which when it is at 1920x1080 myth knows to store 3 frames?
[03:52:15] wagnerrp: mythtv doesnt know to store anything
[03:52:27] wagnerrp: the video stream says how many reference frames it is using
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[03:52:47] wagnerrp: vdpau preallocates a certain amount of memory, as dictated by the claimed level and profile
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[03:53:01] wagnerrp: libav is a bit more flexible, and scales as needed
[03:53:20] wagnerrp: meaning if you just switch to the Standard decoder, you shouldnt see these problems at all
[03:53:55] wagnerrp: for what its worth, unless you have some hardware device you are encoding for, just keep them as mpegs
[03:53:58] Gibby: so what is the benefit to vdpau then?
[03:54:11] wagnerrp: its not worth transcoding unless you have a specific device you need to support
[03:54:30] wagnerrp: and if you did have a specific device you were trying to support, it would have outright barfed on those videos
[03:54:32] Gibby: so mpegs can be HD with 5.1 sound?
[03:54:58] wagnerrp: VDPAU is considerably more robust than most hardware players, simply because it has all that video memory it can use
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[03:55:28] wagnerrp: you... recorded the video, transcoded it, and you ended up with 5.1 audio
[03:55:34] wagnerrp: surely the original recording had 5.1 as well
[03:57:18] Gibby: ugh, i need to read alot more i tink
[03:57:37] wagnerrp: your transcoded videos are 5.1?
[03:57:45] Gibby: so yeah normal profile no artifacts, vpdau with buffer at 10 is alot worst than without
[03:57:48] Gibby: yes they are 5.1
[03:58:03] wagnerrp: well then it would only make sense that the original recordings they were made from were 5.1
[03:58:09] Gibby: correct they are
[03:58:23] wagnerrp: so why were you surprised just before?
[03:58:54] Gibby: i guess i was under the impression mpegs aren't HD/5.1 sound that is why i said i need to read more
[03:59:23] wagnerrp: they arent 'hd'
[03:59:42] wagnerrp: the term 'hd audio' is generally reserved to the higher bitrate audio formats found on bluray disks
[04:00:19] wagnerrp: but if the original recordings werent 5.1, then your father must be upmixing the audio
[04:00:30] wagnerrp: in which case hes really doing things horribly wrong
[04:00:39] Gibby: no the originals are 5.1 sound, i was referring to HD as in the video quality
[04:01:52] wagnerrp: the quality of the transcoded video will always be lesser than that of the original recording
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[04:02:17] Gibby: hmmm ok
[04:02:18] wagnerrp: another reason to just keep the mpegs rather than transcode to some other format
[04:02:24] wagnerrp: unless you specifically need to for compatibility
[04:03:13] Gibby: ok, when you say compatibility, it would be compatibility for?????
[04:03:39] wagnerrp: hardware devices that only support asp or h264 or <insert other non-mpeg2 format>
[04:03:59] wagnerrp: something like a phone, or media player
[04:04:19] Gibby: ahhh ok, that is what i thought you meant by hardware devices, but wasn't sure if you meant some other GPU....
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[04:06:15] Gibby: ok think i am starting to wrap my head around the format... still trying to figure out why i would want to use vdpau instead of normal
[04:06:32] wagnerrp: VDPAU is full hardware decoding, no load on the CPU
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[04:07:18] wagnerrp: in contrast, VDPAU is a hardware decoder, statically defined when the IC was designed several years ago, and will never be as robust or flexible as a software decoder
[04:08:08] Gibby: so a software decoder can't use the GPU?
[04:08:37] wagnerrp: not unless its written in shader language or CUDA
[04:08:48] wagnerrp: technically, VDPAU doesnt use the GPU either
[04:08:50] Gibby: i have a 6 pack if you want to come over for a training session lol
[04:09:01] wagnerrp: it has a custom video decoder separate from the graphics pipeline
[04:09:41] wagnerrp: the scaling and deinterlacing used by it are performed in the shaders, but the decoding itself is completely independent
[04:09:57] Gibby: so say you had a poopy cpu but a good gpu, vdpau is good, if you have a screeming cpu normal is fine?
[04:10:20] wagnerrp: VDPAU is always nice... until it chokes on your video
[04:10:31] wagnerrp: in which case a midrange CPU to fall back on is preferred
[04:11:08] wagnerrp: any of the higher end dual core processors can handle any video you might have access to
[04:11:11] Gibby: hmm ok, my ION i have set at VDPAU high and my desktop vdpau slim only ever had issue on about a dozen files i got from my dad
[04:11:18] wagnerrp: (Atom, VIA, and Arm need not apply)
[04:11:35] wagnerrp: the 9400m in the ION platform cannot handle VDPAU high
[04:11:45] wagnerrp: it doesnt have enough power
[04:12:00] Gibby: hmmmm
[04:12:49] Gibby: like i said i have a 6 pack
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[04:15:20] high-rez: So. I've got a myth install that appears to be recording the same program (same programid) twice.
[04:17:47] high-rez: E.g. I have "record at any time on channel xyz" checked. but the same program is on like 5 times this week, and myth intends to record it every single time.
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[04:38:24] high-rez: rbox, say something
[04:38:47] [R]: oggy boogy
[04:38:49] [R]: oogy*
[04:39:03] wagnerrp: thats what she said
[04:39:06] high-rez: Awesome, at least I know my irc client is working now ;)
[04:39:14] high-rez: I've never seen it so dead in here.
[04:39:19] high-rez: And just when I had tough questions
[04:39:39] [R]: wagnerrp: lol
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[06:39:14] Beirdo: ergh
[06:42:07] Beirdo: Grub loading.... Error 17
[06:42:09] Beirdo: blah!
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[07:09:58] croppa is now known as croppa_
[07:10:03] croppa_ is now known as croppa
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[07:47:19] Beirdo: so, the kernel sees the changer fine AFAICT.
[07:47:26] Beirdo: that's promising
[07:55:05] st1nga (st1nga!~stinga@mail.wolf-rock.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[07:55:57] st1nga: G'day all, Am I allowed to ask about the linhes version of mythtv here?
[08:07:29] st1nga: Here is a bit of my backend.log
[08:07:53] st1nga: 2011-01–03 20:58:03.150 Program #10354 not found in PAT!
[08:08:19] st1nga: I am not sure where it got that from?
[08:15:10] st1nga: MythTV Version  : 25661M
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[09:20:14] justinh1: Gah. Yet again my log is full of rubbish "Program ID XXX is not found in PAT. You need to rescan your transports". I just wish they'd stop messing around with Freeview
[09:20:59] justinh1: I wouldn't care but it's probably down to making way for ITV1+1 – yet another channel nobody really wants
[09:27:40] justinh1: ah. ITV1+1 went live on the 11th
[09:35:17] justinh1: freeview peeps should be doing more to promote DVR use, not putting more timeshifted channels up. If they were really thinking straight, software updates could be pushed out to every freeview DVR & they could make adverts unskippable ;-)
[09:35:35] justinh1: and then WE'D WIN!
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[09:52:25] hashbang: morning all
[09:53:04] justinh1: mornin
[09:53:15] justinh1: you rescanned to take advantage of ITV1+1 yet?
[09:53:38] justinh1: I've just realised I need to.. logs are chock full of complaints about program not found in PAT. Boo
[10:08:33] hashbang: justinh1: heh
[10:08:40] hashbang: justinh1: yes... accidentally
[10:09:17] justinh1: lol. how do you accidentally rescan?
[10:09:48] hashbang: justinh1: I noticed that Synecdoche, NY failed to record, so I startd faffing round with retuning at about 12am on Mon/Tue. After cocking it up entirely, I ended up doing drop table channel; drop table dtv_multiplex; and doing it from scratch. :-)
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[10:10:27] hashbang: pleased to see the scanner in 0.24 looks like it should work much better than the old one.
[10:11:00] hashbang: oddly, though, I needed to do a tuned scan on 864MHz to pick up my fifth multiplex (Russia Today etc)
[10:11:55] justinh1: not sure I like the use of the word 'should' there
[10:12:06] justinh1: I'm still not in much of a hurry to upgrade, either
[10:13:03] justinh1: 0.24 will spit out the theme we currently use like er..
[10:13:05] hashbang: justinh1: well, it looks like it will do sensible things with channels that have changed serviceid, or mplex
[10:13:25] hashbang: justinh1: we'll see next time there's a change like that
[10:13:59] justinh1: be nicer if it'd just handle it. or better still if they didn't bloody change stuff
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[10:14:53] hashbang: justinh1: I like the shiny of 0.24's new themes, but the only one I actually find readable at sofa distance on my 28" CRT is MythCenter-wide :-/
[10:15:04] justinh1: somebody's gotta like em I suppose
[10:15:10] hashbang: justinh1: and even then I have to hack it to make the fonts smaller
[10:15:25] justinh1: mythcenter is still awful
[10:15:37] justinh1: arclight would suit me but wifey hates it
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[10:16:15] justinh1: I don't have anything like enough time to finish 'concept' either
[10:16:36] justinh1: certainly not to the point where 0.24 wouldn't spit it out
[10:18:30] justinh1: other new themes have only made me laugh will-e or whatever it was called etc
[10:19:43] hashbang: justinh1: the screenshot of TintedGlass made me retch. :-)
[10:19:56] hashbang: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/File:Tintedglass-main-screen.jpg
[10:20:02] justinh1: hahah yeah
[10:20:13] hashbang: um, kerning, anyone?
[10:20:18] justinh1: very 0.14, that one
[10:21:19] hashbang: oh, I also pump up the brightness of many of the text colours in MythCenter
[10:21:30] justinh1: just noticed a big problem with blootube-ng too.
[10:21:49] justinh1: 8 items in a centre balanced menu? I don't think so
[10:23:12] justinh1: eep. looks like mr Elkin has 3 themes on the go at the same time. if not more
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[10:24:30] rileyp: mythfrontend does not auto start after a suspend Im using ubuntu could anyone be so kind as to help me with this
[10:24:59] justinh1: er.. it shouldn't need to *start* after a suspend
[10:25:12] justinh1: it should still be there
[10:25:27] justinh1: i.e. your box should come up with everything that was running before suspending, intact
[10:25:40] justinh1: if it doesn't, then my bet is that suspend isn't actually working
[10:26:11] justinh1: go see the nice overcrowded, shouty place that is #ubuntu
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[10:28:59] rileyp: i have mythfrontend close prior to suspending incase live tv was running
[10:29:26] justinh1: I would've fixed that by removing the 'watch tv' menu option :P
[10:29:42] rileyp: And I was sueegeted anacron over in ubuntu and i dont like that solution.
[10:29:52] rileyp: haha hmm that is a soltion i suppose
[10:30:00] rileyp: remove live tv
[10:30:28] justinh1: how is mythfrontend started ordinarily? automagically from some profile or other?
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[10:30:55] rileyp: mythbuntu autostart programs
[10:31:22] justinh1: except on resuming from a suspend because it's not a restart
[10:31:28] rileyp: but its just as easy to put in rc.local bnut that does not get executed after a suspend
[10:31:46] justinh1: there's bound to be *something* that gets used during a resume
[10:31:55] rileyp: and If i put a script in /etc/pm/sleep.d it does not suspend which is odd
[10:32:19] justinh1: /etc/acpi/resume.d/ is a directory containing scripts to be run on resume
[10:32:27] justinh1: from http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=472830
[10:32:48] rileyp: ah ok thanks Ill try that
[10:33:45] justinh1: I never bothered with suspending. my frontend boots in about 25 secs from cold anyway
[10:34:58] rileyp: justinh that links last post says it din not work
[10:35:06] rileyp: * did
[10:35:07] justinh1: so?
[10:35:20] justinh1: the user who made the last post may not have a clue
[10:35:32] rileyp: I'd be happy to cold boot but my remote does not work from a cold boot to strat my frontend
[10:35:45] rileyp: 'and that would involve getting off the couch
[10:35:45] justinh1: lol
[10:36:15] rileyp: and that is not my idea of htpc heaven
[10:36:31] justinh1: what – is your couch like 5 miles away from the frontend?
[10:36:41] rileyp: well 5 metres
[10:37:08] justinh1: I'm thinking about using my frontend to power the TV off
[10:37:16] justinh1: then putting my frontend on the standby saver
[10:37:32] justinh1: so when I turn the teevee on it'll power up the frontend, which'll obviously come on by itself
[10:37:49] justinh1: but then with an IR blaster, instead of just shutting down the frontend will zap the TV/everything off
[10:38:08] justinh1: then the standby saver will detect the TV has turned off & power everything else down ;-)
[10:39:02] justinh1: oo look – we just happen to have some very high power IR LEDs lying around here. wonder if they're any use for remote controlling stuff
[10:43:13] hashbang: my Myth box runs 24x7 as it's also my firewall, DHCP server, DNS cache...
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[10:49:16] st1nga: So I have had a bit of a look at stuff and work out why I get the not found in pat
[10:49:44] st1nga: I can sort of see why, but it seems to be using the wrong mplexid
[10:53:39] justinh1: that error is usually because the broadcaster has mixed things up & you need to rescan
[10:54:05] ** hashbang gives justinh1 2 for 2. :-) **
[10:56:26] justinh1: I have a backend for running 24x7, something I'm starting to re-evaluate
[10:57:13] justinh1: since work killed off my connection to my home IP there's no point the backend even being on when it's not recording most of the day
[10:57:38] hashbang: justinh1: ouch. No ssh?
[10:57:49] justinh1: no, the IP is blocked at the gateway
[10:58:06] hashbang: justinh1: ouch. Did they single you out?
[10:58:12] justinh1: dunno
[10:58:32] justinh1: I've tried forcing my cable modem to get me a new IP but it's not happening. I dunno how long it has to be off for
[10:58:39] st1nga: ssh over https... :-)
[10:58:53] st1nga: unless you use https
[10:58:55] justinh1: the IP address is blocked at the gateway
[10:59:05] justinh1: changing protocol won't make any difference
[10:59:07] st1nga: ah, sorry, I wonder why
[10:59:12] hashbang: justinh1: do you work for a big faceless corp, or someone smaller?
[10:59:19] justinh1: smaller
[10:59:46] justinh1: the IT guiy has looked into it & he *says* he doesn't know what's up. so I've not dug any deeper
[10:59:59] pheld: justinh1: sure it isn't just your trace protocol that is being blocked? Tried tcptraceroute?
[11:00:05] hashbang: would have thought they'd be more tolerant of such things, but smaller corps can be quite vindictive.
[11:00:25] st1nga: seems strange to block one single IP address
[11:00:26] justinh1: pheld: that's how I *know* the gateway isn't allowing it
[11:00:33] justinh1: it gets as far as the gateway & no further
[11:00:42] pheld: ah ok
[11:00:50] justinh1: other people's home IPs work fine
[11:01:14] justinh1: there are probably public ssh gateways I could use but er.. I'd be pretty reluctant to do that
[11:01:47] hashbang: justinh1: understandable. If they've singled out your address, attempting to get round a block that's been put in place could be seen rather negatively.
[11:02:10] justinh1: heh
[11:02:14] justinh1: you can say that again
[11:02:23] hashbang: justinh1: I'd suggest either doing without (as you are doing), or politely ask admins/management to lift it.
[11:02:38] justinh1: I was a bit careless sometimes, leaving ssh/nx open over the weekend
[11:02:48] pheld: justinh1: try aiccu with an ipv6 broker. maybe they haven't blocked that yet ;)
[11:02:53] hashbang: justinh1: maybe it looked a bit backdoor-y
[11:02:57] st1nga: I could do a rescan, but that just seems to create a load of channels I then need to delete
[11:03:08] justinh1: I'm not gonna push it. I can live without
[11:03:32] hashbang: justinh1: I've got our people flapping from time to time when I've done things from home too.
[11:03:39] justinh1: and since I can live without, I can live without the backend being on 24/7 too
[11:03:58] hashbang: justinh1: OTOH, it comes in handy when they want to check that firewall rules/servers are working as intended for the wider Interwebs.
[11:04:17] justinh1: I can always ssh in from my phone if I get desperate
[11:04:46] justinh1: or I could tether my phone if I could be bothered
[11:05:01] justinh1: http://catalog.osram-os.com/catalogue/catalog . . . showBookmark is what I have ten of on my desk :)
[11:05:32] justinh1: that ought to do the job IR blasting
[11:05:36] hashbang: justinh1: hehe, tethering, of course, would potentially introduce a worse problem to their network to that which they were trying to solve. :-)
[11:05:53] hashbang: "Golden Dragon"
[11:06:12] justinh1: been looking for a cheap-ish bluetooth keyboard I can carry around
[11:06:31] justinh1: touch screen keyboards are all well & good for some things but not ssh
[11:07:20] justinh1: reminds me I was gonna look at the mobile mythweb profile & make it more android friendly
[11:07:29] justinh1: the home screen is like waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big
[11:07:40] hashbang: justinh1: http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info. . . . ts_id=110621 ?
[11:07:58] hashbang: justinh1: won't work with Android unless you're rooted, though.
[11:08:08] hashbang: justinh1: Android doesn't do HID well, apparently.
[11:08:11] justinh1: ffs. click on a picture to view it exactly the same size in a popup window
[11:08:37] justinh1: hashbang: seriously?
[11:08:46] hashbang: justinh1: yeah.
[11:08:52] justinh1: not that it's a concern, since I'm rooted
[11:09:03] justinh1: don't run rooted all the time though. I'm not stupid
[11:09:04] hashbang: justinh1: it took 2.1 for my Hero to do Bluetooth file transfer, FFS.
[11:09:34] justinh1: I watched a lot of review videos of android phones & wasn't impressed til I saw the Orange SF
[11:09:50] justinh1: I wasn't gonna pay £300 for a phone as slow & laggy as hell
[11:09:53] hashbang: justinh1: basically, it seems as though the view of BT within Google is that it's just for headsets.
[11:10:06] hashbang: justinh1: that seems to be changing, slowly, though.
[11:10:26] justinh1: what about usb then? ;-)
[11:10:47] justinh1: and er.. a USB display too :P
[11:10:50] hashbang: justinh1: got my Hero last Feb with T-Mo for £91 on a £15x24 contract; 300 mins, unltd SMS, 3GB data.
[11:10:59] justinh1: ouch
[11:11:26] justinh1: actually that's not too bad
[11:11:29] hashbang: justinh1: not really; I paid £99 for my K800i a couple of years previously, and I was paying £10/m for 100 SMS with Orange PAYG.
[11:11:44] justinh1: I'm using < 100MB a month
[11:12:03] justinh1: well *now* I am since I uninstalled the orange apps :P
[11:12:07] hashbang: justinh1: I'm usually 100–200MB/m, but a trip away adds about 100MB/day.
[11:12:37] justinh1: I think it'd be hard to use all your data up when you're out & about. everything's so bloody slow
[11:12:47] hashbang: get in quick if you want 3GB, though, as it's changing in a couple of weeks time to 500MB
[11:12:56] hashbang: I get ~1.9Mbit/s with T-M on HSDPA.
[11:13:06] justinh1: I was out for xmas drinkies with work & wanted to look up bus times online come hometime. sheesh
[11:13:30] justinh1: oh yeah I found out a massive gap in the market for travel apps
[11:13:35] hashbang: justinh1: which network? Orange were crud for data when I was with them.
[11:14:04] justinh1: how about: an app that tells you which bus/train you need to get & from where to get to place X – rather than the retarded way of showing you where you are now & where you can go from here
[11:14:22] hashbang: justinh1: traveline.org.uk
[11:14:35] justinh1: yeah that was with an app that uses their API
[11:14:53] justinh1: their API can only show you what's available from a location, not the way most people would need it
[11:15:28] justinh1: and that was the site that was woefully inadequate on a mobile screen
[11:15:47] justinh1: next to completely useless on a saturday night when drunk ;-)
[11:17:13] hashbang: justinh1: heh
[11:17:18] justinh1: honestly though – what use is the nextbuses app?
[11:17:38] hashbang: justinh1: is that the one that uses the GPS on the buses?
[11:17:39] justinh1: most people will want to find out how to get to A PLACE, not where they can go from where they are.
[11:18:17] justinh1: you can plan a journey from the main travel websites but not their mobile apps, which seems utterly counterintuitive
[11:18:25] justinh1: and nobody seems to be questioning it
[11:20:10] justinh1: hashbang: might try switching networks from Orange then. wifey will complain profusely but hell it's just one number she'll need to update – or if I like the other network I'll port my number anyway
[11:20:38] justinh1: phone is already unlocked – found a site that gives you codes for IMEI numbers
[11:20:56] hashbang: justinh1: free or pay-for?
[11:21:03] justinh1: free
[11:21:09] hashbang: ooh! linky?
[11:21:18] justinh1: found it from android.modaco.com
[11:21:45] justinh1: had dropdowns for all sorts of gear
[11:23:10] hashbang: nextgenserver ?
[11:24:34] justinh1: can't honestly remember. didn't bookmark it figuring I wouldn't need it again
[11:27:21] justinh1: yeah that was it. coulda sworn it had more phone models in the menu though
[11:28:45] justinh1: anyway it's not as if unlocks are expensive or hard to get via ebay, say
[11:29:02] justinh1: I paid £0.99 to unlock my last phone
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[11:31:08] jcarlos_: Eventually a see the following message in my mythtv-backend log: SM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0)::AddFlags: Seen() Match() Wait(Sig,)
[11:31:13] jcarlos_: What can be the problem ?
[11:31:26] jcarlos_: I cannot see TV when this message is shown
[11:31:46] jcarlos_: And the message repeats multiple times ...
[11:32:59] jcarlos_: If I stop mythtv-backend, initialize the TDT card with ztap (twice) and then start mythtv-backen again, the problem is gone ...
[11:33:06] jcarlos_: But some hours later the problem is back ...
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[11:33:57] jcarlos: s/ztap/tzap/
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[11:38:02] rileyp: is the 256 nvidia driver ok for myth are there problems with it
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[11:39:11] justinh1: try it – you might like it. What's the worst that can happen?
[11:41:00] rileyp: black screen have to open terminal window and disable and restart gdm
[11:41:17] hashbang: rileyp: works for me. 260.19 is reputed to have some problems
[11:41:38] rileyp: with vdpau all ok?
[11:42:04] hashbang: rileyp: seemed to be, but I can't use VDPAU with the card I had to swap for the GT240 I originally tested it with.
[11:42:46] rileyp: Im on 195 at present but its broken for some reason I DK why
[11:43:00] rileyp: so i thinking stuf it Ill try 356
[11:43:01] justinh1: when I get HD I'm not wasting any time with viddypow
[11:43:09] rileyp: thats 256 oops
[11:43:28] justinh1: I had xvmc with my flea-pee-aye-ay board & that was – like viddypow – great when it worked
[11:43:37] rileyp: apperntly you brits get little hd on FTA
[11:43:55] justinh1: we get no HD on terrestrial yet
[11:43:56] rileyp: we get a bit in skippyland
[11:43:59] justinh1: no dvb-t2 tuners, see
[11:44:17] justinh1: well, there's a dvb-t2 dual tuner.. or some USB junk
[11:44:47] justinh1: it's so funny reading about those. "Muh, they only support up to 720P.. WAH!".
[11:44:59] rileyp: your tuners work on 1080p stations in australia as peeeps are buying the playstation tuners from uk for au
[11:45:11] justinh1: yeah that's cos it's DVB-T
[11:45:13] justinh1: not DVB-T2
[11:45:20] justinh1: and mpeg2 not h.264 AFAIK
[11:45:29] rileyp: yes mpeg2
[11:45:39] justinh1: so you need way less CPU than we will
[11:45:49] rileyp: yes.........
[11:46:00] justinh1: I think I'll just chuck a quad core at it when the time comes
[11:46:14] justinh1: do it the smart way :)
[11:47:09] rileyp: the ps3 playtv are dual tuner game.uk had them for 19.98 and they work a treat in Au for 1080p FTA mpeg2
[11:47:22] justinh1: meh. usb tuners
[11:47:48] rileyp: usb use cpu cycle but on mpeg2 its very little
[11:48:15] rileyp: as i have a singel core atom BE and can record 12 channels at once!
[11:48:18] justinh1: had many problems with devices disappearing & needing to be re-plugged?
[11:48:45] rileyp: no theyve been plugged in for months
[11:48:53] justinh1: many backend restarts?
[11:48:54] hashbang: justinh1: Linux USB powersaving?
[11:49:07] rileyp: about once a month perhaps
[11:49:09] justinh1: I dunno, I just wouldn't trust USB over PCI
[11:49:27] justinh1: once a month?! :-O
[11:49:31] rileyp: when I;m fiddling with the BE
[11:49:40] justinh1: pfft
[11:49:48] hashbang: justinh1: my Nova-T-500 works fine; it's PCI, but internally it's USB with a VIA USB/PCI bridge
[11:49:55] justinh1: you're funny. atom backend.. yada yada. lol
[11:50:01] rileyp: and I accidently shutdown when Im finished
[11:50:31] rileyp: the atom BE works fine i just do commercial skipping after 2 am in the morning
[11:50:59] rileyp: I dont transcode but I have no need
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[11:51:10] justinh1: you may use less power with an atom but it costs more than my backend CPU & mainboard did – and the difference won't add up to money saved from your electric bill for like 10 years
[11:51:34] rileyp: so its all good for me 30w power doing my bit for the planet
[11:51:46] hashbang: justinh1: ever tried http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silence-detect.sh ?
[11:51:50] justinh1: ROFLMAO
[11:52:18] rileyp: meanwhile im typing on my 300w 1080p projector on the couch with my 300w reciver running lol
[11:52:22] justinh1: hashbang: no, we just hit a button on the remote
[11:52:39] hashbang: justinh1: yeah, me too, but I saw it recently and was intrigued. :-)
[11:52:46] rileyp: and my 45watt asrock ion front end
[11:53:03] rileyp: so the computers are good and everything else is bad
[11:53:15] justinh1: there still ain't no substitute for CPU cycles man
[11:56:00] justinh1: and hey, sod the planet
[11:56:28] justinh1: so long as petrol is still 0.55 cents per 10 gallons in the US, we're all doomed
[11:58:59] justinh1: actually no – until such time as it's possible for Uncle Sam MegaHyperGlobal Corp. to make money from saving the environment, we're all doomed ;)
[11:59:29] justinh1: hashbang: seen the load of bull at www.vphase.co.uk btw?
[11:59:31] justinh1: it's hilarious
[11:59:58] justinh1: they say that regulating the mains voltage down to 220V will save you 10% on your bills. that's assuming a hell of a lot
[12:04:21] hashbang: justinh1: ecobandwagon stuff is the bane of my life
[12:05:11] hashbang: justinh1: if I'm being generous, I put it down to not taking full account of everything end-to-end, but I think some 'eco' products are outright scams of the well-meaning
[12:06:03] hashbang: justinh1: hmm, not bad; the time taken to run that silence detection script is about 1m30 on a 5.5GB recording on my i5–760
[12:06:24] hashbang: justinh1: are the cutlists sane, though? Will need to have a play...
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[12:07:24] justinh1: I was gonna have a play with detecting funny characters in the subtitles too – but there didn't seem to be an easy way to scan them
[12:07:58] hashbang: justinh1: did I ever mention I had a play with running the subtitles through OCR to try to get automatic ASCII transcripts?
[12:08:05] justinh1: about 2/3 of the ad breaks I looked at with subs turned on had a block character before & after the break
[12:08:06] hashbang: justinh1: didn't work for me, though
[12:09:28] justinh1: worth a shot
[12:09:46] justinh1: eek – store that as metadata in the db... searchy searchy
[12:09:52] hashbang: justinh1: indeed. Would be quite handy to grep current affairs programs etc.
[12:10:06] hashbang: documentaries
[12:10:10] justinh1: everything
[12:10:14] hashbang: heh, yeah.
[12:10:27] justinh1: christ you could *sell* that
[12:10:28] hashbang: no such thing as too much metadata. :-)
[12:10:42] hashbang: justinh1: to PR companies, researchers etc.
[12:10:49] justinh1: back to TV companies ;)
[12:10:53] hashbang: heh
[12:11:05] justinh1: must be possible though
[12:11:10] justinh1: what was the problem? any idea?
[12:11:20] hashbang: maybe I'll give it another whirl with a newer version of the OCR stuff
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[12:11:47] hashbang: I think that the font used was a bit too messy for the OCR to consistently recognise
[12:11:51] hashbang: I think I was using gOCR
[12:12:13] justinh1: how were you getting the stream out?
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[12:12:32] hashbang: justinh1: projectX
[12:12:45] justinh1: no I mean out into a bitmap
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[12:14:09] justinh1: apparently 'subrip' can do dvb subs
[12:14:49] hashbang: justinh1: mytharchivehelper --sup2dast
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[12:17:40] justinh1: must be possible to automate it – seen plenty er 'files' out there of UK TV shows
[12:17:57] justinh1: if guys are turning DVB-T into avi with srt ...
[12:18:48] justinh1: ugh Jeremy c*** is wittering on about local tv again
[12:19:11] justinh1: yeah like we NEED local TV. sheesh. has he ever watched Channel M ?
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[13:05:23] justinh1: OH. ProjectX can output bitmaps of DVB subs. Aha
[13:05:47] justinh1: so then it might still be worthwhile me getting a coding hat on to look for those white rectangle blocks
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[13:09:37] justinh1: darn, I sure wish I had ssh access to my box now. lol
[13:10:21] justinh1: I hope the white blob is actually there & it's not just a mythtv induced artifact
[13:10:34] justinh1: pretty sure it is actually there though
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[13:18:01] hashbang: justinh1: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Commercial_detecti . . . VB_Subtitles
[13:18:42] justinh1: have a look see who wrote that ;-)
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[13:20:18] hashbang: aha
[13:20:20] hashbang: :-)
[13:21:03] justinh1: we happened to have subs enabled for some reason or other & the show went to a break.. I saw the rectangle. sure enough at the other side of the break there was another
[13:21:09] justinh1: and nowhere inbetween
[13:21:18] justinh1: checked another few recordings & it was there too
[13:21:33] justinh1: it definitely needs more investigation
[13:21:36] quicksilver: that blob is definitely really there
[13:21:42] quicksilver: you can see it on normal TVs
[13:21:51] quicksilver: although, quite often it's mostly lost in the overscan
[13:21:59] justinh1: so let's get pulling the bitmap out & looking for it
[13:22:25] justinh1: thing is I've never done a stitch of image analysis so I dunno where to start
[13:24:56] justinh1: quicksilver: so maybe where I didn't see it it was offscreen somewhere
[13:25:08] justinh1: if that's the case then bingo, we got em!
[13:25:32] justinh1: so it won't miss show promos but I could live with that
[13:26:00] justinh1: we don't buy TV magazines or newspapers & trails are just about the only way we find out about new shows
[13:29:09] quicksilver: yeah, we have the same problem
[13:29:19] quicksilver: actually occasionally discuss buying the radio times just to find out about new shows.
[13:29:45] justinh1: there was a website somebody gave me a link to a while back but I can't remember what I did with the link
[13:30:15] quicksilver: the problem with any remotely general purpose TV website is that I"m not interested in 90% of what's on
[13:30:18] quicksilver: or maybe 99%
[13:30:27] quicksilver: so it would have to be very cunningly coincided with my taste.
[13:30:39] quicksilver: (it's somehow easier to skip over pages of a magazine that don't look interesting than a website)
[13:30:59] justinh1: yeah I know what you mean
[13:31:20] justinh1: and a recommendation system isn't necessarily much use either. I mean, I know people who watch Glee for God's sakes
[13:31:55] quicksilver: we know so many people who watch Glee that we watched an episode.
[13:32:03] quicksilver: I mean, it must be good, right?
[13:32:07] quicksilver: we've never watched another ;)
[13:33:05] justinh1: the tv was left on channel four when I was working on my network cables in the cupboard under the stairs one saturday. I actually got up to turn it over
[13:33:15] justinh1: sounded like the frickin chipmonks or something
[13:34:29] quicksilver: alvin--
[13:34:31] quicksilver: chip'n'dale++
[13:34:59] justinh1: anyway I find anything where autotune is used completely abhorrent
[13:35:19] justinh1: vocoders yes. autotune.. NO
[13:36:18] justinh1: from what I gathered it's like High School Musical with the ghey turned all the way up to 11. Musicals SUCK
[13:37:00] justinh1: hmm seems we don't have any bits I can make an IR blaster with apart from IR LEDs
[13:47:08] jcarlos: Can someone tell me what does the line "SM(/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0)::AddFlags: Seen() Match() Wait(Sig,)" mean ? (repeated a lot of times in my mythtv-backend log)
[13:50:04] justinh1: it'd be far more enlightening to see more of the backend log. don't cherry pick what you *think* is essential information
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[13:50:38] justinh1: and by that, I mean drop as much of the backend log from when you have problems into a pastebin
[13:50:43] justinh1: don't paste it all here
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[13:53:41] jcarlos: justinh1: My mythtv-backend is full of this line. It appears three times a second ... and I can not see TV nor record any show right now. If I stop mythtv-backend, iniatilize the TDT card with tzap, and start mythtv-backend again I can see and record TV. But some hours later the situation is the same: the message repeated a lot of times and no TV and no recording ...
[13:55:26] hashbang: quicksilver: justinh: I regularly trawl through the 'new programmes' and 'movies' lists when searching for things to record. I still miss some that don't particularly stand out from their listing description.
[13:55:43] justinh1: jcarlos: and nothing else in the log? I find that hard to believe
[13:56:23] hashbang: justinh1: heh at being so bothered by Glee you got up to switch it over. :-)
[13:56:26] jcarlos: justinh1: One moment ...
[13:57:29] justinh1: hashbang: I was in the middle of identifying cables in a bundle & lost my place too
[13:58:10] hashbang: justinh1: it must have been painful. :-)
[13:58:47] jcarlos: justinh1: http://bokerones.homelinux.org/error-mythtv.log
[13:58:56] hashbang: justinh1: my gf and her Mum were watching X Factor or something, and I instantly recognised the autotune. The next day, it was all over the papers/blogs.
[13:59:23] jcarlos: justinh1: You can see here the log just before I missed my last recording ...
[13:59:53] hashbang: justinh1: it was interesting used in that Cher song, probably OK in moderation with half-decent singers who just hit a duff note now and then, but cranked to 11 and combined with lousy singers...
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[14:02:11] jcarlos: justinh1: I can made available the full mythtv-backend log ... but it is 80 megas long !!
[14:03:42] jcarlos: justinh1: The log is so long because I have "--verbose all" enabled ...
[14:04:02] pheld: jcarlos: can't you extract a section of 500–1000 lines leading up to where it first starts spewing messages
[14:04:17] jcarlos: pheld: Sure ... one moment
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[14:05:22] justinh1: hashbang: yeah my wife is always all over tv talent shows :-\ I don't watch them as a rule but I always seem to be in the room when they're on
[14:05:40] justinh1: I noticed the autotune too. like anybody would've missed it
[14:05:59] justinh1: sheesh how tone deaf do you have to be to NOT notice it?
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[14:11:07] jcarlos: pheld: Sorry ... the file is so large that I have problems selecting lines ... I keep trying ...
[14:14:10] pheld: jcarlos: 80MB shouldn't be a problem e.g. in vim unless your machine is low on memory
[14:14:35] jcarlos: pheld: My machine is a dockstar ... with 128 Megas of RAM and a lot of services running in it ... :-/
[14:15:12] jcarlos: pheld: And I am accessing to it via ssh right now ... with not a fast network connection ...
[14:15:28] justinh1: whoah that's NO way enough ram for a mythtv system
[14:15:45] justinh1: end of conversation, basically ;-)
[14:15:58] jcarlos: justinh1: It's running OK ... only this eventual problem
[14:16:06] jcarlos: justinh1: It is running only the backend
[14:16:16] justinh1: even so...
[14:16:34] justinh1: 512MB is the *minimum* I would recommend
[14:17:25] jcarlos: justinh1: Do you think that my problems are because of that low memory ?
[14:17:27] justinh1: using such a device means you end up having to host the mysql server etc somewhere else, so you may as well run everything on proper hardware
[14:18:00] jcarlos: justinh1: mysql server is also in this 128 megas machine ...
[14:18:00] justinh1: as far as I know the only way you could ever succeed in doing what you're doing is to host mysql etc on a different machine
[14:18:31] justinh1: and if you were to host mysql on a different box you might as well use a *proper* machine for everything
[14:19:02] justinh1: maybe the low memory isn't the exact cause of your problems but you're certainly not doing yourself any favours
[14:19:31] pheld: jcarlos: with myth and lots of services as you say I'd be surprised if that machine doesn't spend more time paging than doing anything useful
[14:20:08] jcarlos: justinh1: Really working well ... (that particular problem apart) ...
[14:20:15] jcarlos: pheld: ^
[14:20:31] justinh1: people out there in internet land, with blogs etc.. they may *say* they're running mythtv on a stupid hacked NAS box but they're insane
[14:20:42] jcarlos: I'm basically the only user of those services ... so no overhead ...
[14:21:02] justinh1: mysql needs way more ram to operate properly
[14:22:13] justinh1: a mythtv database can easily grow way in excess of what your machine can have in memory
[14:22:13] justinh1: I think you either need to look at other software (VDR maybe?) or re-think your choice of hardware
[14:23:02] jcarlos: justinh1: The mysql database grows away if I only see TV ?
[14:23:03] justinh1: it's not that I'm against using low-power tree-hugging planet-saving (and other BS excuses) hardware – it's just that you're expecting too much of that little box. mythtv is not some simple web app
[14:23:32] justinh1: it certainly can grow
[14:23:51] justinh1: maybe not to 512MB but bigger than what your machine can have in ram at one time
[14:24:08] justinh1: and that'll make it *suck* at being a mythtv backend
[14:24:42] jcarlos: justinh1: What are the data that made database grows ? Program guide ?
[14:25:58] justinh1: just about every table in the database to do with TV operations
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[14:26:36] justinh1: recorded, recordedmarkup, oldrecorded, program, oldprogram ...
[14:26:48] justinh1: and you can't just go clearing data out willy-nilly
[14:27:15] jcarlos: justinh1: That was the question I was going to ask ... :-)
[14:27:21] justinh1: I could tell
[14:28:20] hashbang: justinh1: the backend's housekeeper routine should keep that stuff clear of outright rubbish as I understand it
[14:29:03] justinh1: yeah but you're still generally going to have a working database you'll struggle to keep in 128MB RAM.. and that's even without overheads
[14:29:38] justinh1: maybe when the mythtv database stuff is reworked & becomes embedded it'll be a different story
[14:29:38] hashbang: justinh1: just trying to reassure jcarlos that his db won't grow /stupidly/.
[14:30:13] jcarlos: justinh1: Are there any plans to do so ?
[14:30:14] justinh1: but still, I very much doubt anybody reworking the database into something embedded will be thinking about folks with 128MB RAM somehow
[14:30:34] ** justinh1 pictures iamlindoro laughing into his beer **
[14:30:44] justinh1: let them eat VDR!
[14:32:01] jcarlos: pheld: Well, when I come home I will show the relevant log ... thanks anyways ...
[14:32:05] justinh1: if all you want to do is stream live tv over your home network or whatever – and stick to using that hardware – then mythtv isn't for you
[14:32:43] jcarlos: justinh1: Well ... I use it to stream videos (MythVideo) ... and working well till now ...
[14:35:38] justinh1: there's a lot to be said for cheap & cheerful PCs hidden in cupboard under the stairs ;-)
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[14:36:47] jcarlos: justinh1: Hehe ... my dockstar is not under the stairs ... is over my desktop machine ... :-)
[14:37:10] jcarlos: justinh1: And it is not even a PC ...
[14:37:16] justinh1: so?
[14:37:29] jcarlos: It was only a comment ...
[14:37:49] justinh1: listen, I don't care how 'cool' people think it is to run stuff on those low-cost NAS boxes – but running a fully-functioning mythtv system on one just isn't realistic
[14:38:29] jcarlos: justinh1: I see ...
[14:38:30] justinh1: sure, hack it & put freenas or whatever on it, have it doing all sorts of stuff it isn't sold for, but it can never be a reliable, fully operational mythtv backend
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[14:39:39] justinh1: unfortunately it's not very likely that mythtv will be heading towards a lower memory footprint in future – well not as low as 128MB anyway ;-)
[14:39:41] jcarlos: By the way, a I have put debian on it ... (only another comment) ...
[14:39:54] justinh1: you want the shiny shiny, you gotta have the memory to support it
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[14:41:17] justinh1: I'm a little concerned about ubuntu's plans to move away from X – considering the awfully poor state of opengl support in linux on anything that doesn't come in binary blobs from nvidia
[14:41:54] justinh1: maybe that'll kick the driver developers up the backside a bit, who knows
[14:42:10] jcarlos: justinh1: By the way ... the mythconverg database is 4,9 megas in disk right now ... I think not much in RAM
[14:42:25] justinh1: & if mythtv moves to gl only video rendering or something.. yeesh.. then it'll be bye bye intel
[14:42:57] justinh1: jcarlos: it gets bigger
[14:43:23] justinh1: by the time you've got a load more videos, music & recorded TV shows on there.. oof
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[14:43:54] jcarlos: justinh1: Yep ... you told me ... :-)
[14:44:28] justinh1: I think my database, with literally hundreds of recordings & a good number of videos & music.. is about 100MB
[14:44:45] justinh1: I'd definitely struggle with only 128MB RAM :P
[14:44:55] jcarlos: justinh1: But I think it will not be a problem for me ... not so much videos nor recorded TV shows ...
[14:45:01] justinh1: YET
[14:45:31] justinh1: a few versions ago the *minimum* recommended RAM for mythtv was 512MB
[14:45:38] jcarlos: If I delete recorded shows the info is also deleted in the database, right ?
[14:45:42] justinh1: mythtv & everything a mythtv backend needs
[14:45:49] justinh1: jcarlos: not all of it, no
[14:46:11] justinh1: it keeps some back so that it doesn't then go & record shows you've already seen
[14:46:26] pheld: justinh1: maybe intel has realised its shortcomings in graphics as they'be just forked out 1.5Bn in nvidia licenses ;)
[14:47:06] justinh1: pheld: I don't care. I'm never buying anything with intel graphics again
[14:47:22] justinh1: well maybe for a backend box ;-)
[14:47:51] justinh1: when their hardware can't even play video in WINDOWS without tearing.. oops
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[14:57:17] h7252: hi, I'm wondering whether the current mythtv still runs on epia m10ks
[14:57:36] justinh1: I wouldn't dare even trying it
[14:57:47] justinh1: oh wait wasn't xvmc dropped with 0.24?
[14:58:23] h7252: hm I remember reading sth like that
[14:58:27] h7252: why wouldn't you try?
[14:58:36] h7252: it worked fine for SDTV for years
[14:58:43] justinh1: oh wait no, 0.25 is when xvmc goes bye byes
[14:58:55] justinh1: h7252: I used to use an M10k frontend. It sucked
[14:59:05] justinh1: and that was with 0.21
[14:59:09] h7252: hm I have 0.24 from debian-multimedia.org so i should still have it right?!
[14:59:15] justinh1: so no, I wouldn't recommend using one
[14:59:17] justinh1: for anything
[14:59:21] justinh1: well, maybe as a door stop
[14:59:29] h7252: I still have the board and not time or money to invest into sth else :-)
[14:59:44] justinh1: I sold my board for more than I originally paid for it :D
[14:59:53] h7252: that's nice
[15:00:01] h7252: I doubt that anybody is willing to pay that now :-)
[15:00:05] justinh1: paid for a nice new core2duo frontend :D
[15:00:53] h7252: hm nice
[15:01:16] h7252: do you know by herat where do I set up the xvmc stuff?
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[15:01:46] justinh1: playback profiles
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[15:02:11] justinh1: there really should've been a default profile configured for machines too underpowered for SDTV
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[15:03:08] justinh1: see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/XvMC
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[15:04:50] justinh1: you might want to try the CPU-- profile first
[15:04:53] sphery: CPU-- is the XvMC-using profile group for underpowered machines
[15:05:00] sphery: heh, yeah
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[15:06:40] justinh1: I wonder if anybody'll fork mythtv to keep xvmc support in
[15:06:45] justinh1: that'd be well funny
[15:07:17] justinh1: h7252: have you ever tried minimyth? It's what every Epia system owner deserves
[15:07:49] h7252: no never tried
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[15:12:00] justinh1: then again you implied you don't want to invest much time in it.. there's a lot of fettling config variables & stuff
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[15:18:26] justinh1: bugger. we just had a sandisk rep here handing out 64GB microSD samples
[15:18:29] h7252: well the time was more ordering it online and waiting for it to arrive
[15:19:18] h7252: anyways even if I remove all other playback profiles from cpu-- and just leave the rez > 0 0 -> XvMC the playback is jerky
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[15:23:10] justinh1: ah well – therein lies a problem – and the reason I had to junk the M10k board
[15:23:43] justinh1: it only affected some recordings – and always ones from BBC channels – unless I ran them through lossless transcode first – which of course didn't work every time
[15:24:14] hashbang: justinh1: interesting; SD is only supposed to go upto 32GB. SDXC or some non-standard SDHC?
[15:24:25] justinh1: although I did try a knoppmyth live cd frontend instance & it worked fine – but I didn't like it much
[15:24:36] justinh1: SDHC I think
[15:24:54] justinh1: not sure – the people who were in the meeting weren't very techy ;-)
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[15:37:54] h7252: haha XvMC != Via XvMC
[15:38:05] h7252: changing that in the playback profiles and I'm back on track
[15:51:14] justinh1: til 0.25 is out, anyway :P
[15:52:32] jcarlos: pheld: Here it is the log: http://bokerones.homelinux.org/mythbackend.log
[15:53:59] jcarlos: pheld: I have scheduled a recording ... but it doesn't record anything ... and here you have the repeating message ...
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[16:02:23] jcarlos: justinh1: Could you please see that log to guide me about what can be my problem ?
[16:04:35] jcarlos: I'm a bit lost ... :-/
[16:04:38] sphery: jcarlos: a log file at default verbosity would be much easier to part--rather than burying the error inside tons of irrelevant log messages
[16:04:52] sphery: i.e. mythbackend -v important,general (or with no -v argument)
[16:05:10] jcarlos: sphery: Can I change verbosity at runtime ?
[16:05:21] sphery: mythbackend --setverbose important,general
[16:05:28] sphery: only affects master backend, though
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[16:06:07] pheld: jcarlos: you need to include messages prior to the first instance of the "SM..." message
[16:06:39] sphery: jcarlos: also, please pastebin: mythbackend --printsched
[16:07:42] jcarlos: sphery: http://pastebin.com/Bs4LUvbz
[16:08:06] jcarlos: pheld: The problem is that I don't kown which is that first instance ... :/
[16:08:16] jcarlos: All my logs are full of then ...
[16:08:24] jcarlos: them*
[16:08:25] sphery: jcarlos: then the root problem is almost definitely input connections configuration: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034
[16:09:24] jcarlos: sphery: If I stop mythtv-backend, run tzap, start mythtv-backend all works OK ... but some hours later the problem is back again ...
[16:10:15] h7252: justinh1: thanks for your help,
[16:10:18] sphery: that could happen from an input connections problem
[16:10:24] jcarlos: sphery: And not only recordings, see TV doesn't work right now ...
[16:10:30] sphery: but it may be drivers/hardware problems
[16:10:39] h7252: I'll just not update until I need a new frontend
[16:11:22] jcarlos: sphery: So you recommend reconfigure "input connections" ?
[16:12:04] sphery: once your drivers/hardware are in good working order, yes :)
[16:12:22] sphery: in other words, you could do that, now, but if it's drivers/hardware issues, it won't fix it
[16:12:52] jcarlos: sphery: I'll try, thanks ...
[16:13:03] sphery: good luck
[16:13:10] jcarlos: Thanks !!
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[16:37:43] hashbang: justinh1: XvMC is going? When? I've found it results in considerably smoother tickers/scrollers than plain Xv w/0.24 and nVidia.
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[16:38:27] iamlindoro: s/is going/is gone/
[16:38:38] hashbang: iamlindoro: eep!
[16:38:43] hashbang: iamlindoro: to be replaced with?
[16:38:59] iamlindoro: VDPAU and/or OpenGL
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[16:39:23] iamlindoro: If you need XvMC and are unwilling to upgrade hardware, you will need to not upgrade past .24
[16:39:27] iamlindoro: http://www.mythtv.org/
[16:39:28] hashbang: bum!
[16:39:30] iamlindoro: see second announcement
[16:39:51] hashbang: my 7600GT can't do VDPAU, and my GT240 won't do <31kHz output.
[16:39:58] hashbang: so that gives OpenGL
[16:40:04] hashbang: I wonder how well that'll work
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[16:41:32] hashbang: iamlindoro: is there no chance that they could be left in as-is as --configure'able 'unmaintained' options?
[16:41:38] iamlindoro: No
[16:41:41] iamlindoro: It's removed already
[16:41:48] iamlindoro: With absolutely 0 chance of it ever returning
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[16:42:51] xaxes: hey, I have a question about downgrading from git to 0.24.. Id read that it would be a good idea to go overall. So I deleted the mysql-db-directory of mythconverg, created a new one, but after this, it says again, that it is unable to upgrade(/downgrade) .. what can I do?
[16:43:26] wagnerrp: hashbang: if you have a machine with PCIe slots, you almost certainly do not need XvMC for any purpose
[16:43:43] hashbang: xaxes: you didn't drop the database, but just removed it from under MySQL's feet?
[16:43:57] hashbang: wagnerrp: you'd have thought so, wouldn't you?
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[16:44:13] hashbang: wagnerrp: I bought a GT240, but it won't produce a 15kHz PAL output on the VGA socket
[16:44:16] wagnerrp: what processor do you have?
[16:44:20] hashbang: wagnerrp: i5–760
[16:44:22] xaxes: yes ^^ I have a backup, but yes, I simply removed it ^^
[16:44:28] wagnerrp: then you dont need XvMC
[16:44:31] wagnerrp: and dont want to use XvMC
[16:44:58] hashbang: wagnerrp: XvMC is smoother than Xv. Should OpenGL be as smooth as XvMC?
[16:45:05] sphery: and if xvmc was smoother than xv, you had misconfigured your video
[16:45:43] sphery: and since new mythtv doesn't have the code that made it so you could misconfigure and think things were properly configured, you'll now /know/ when you misconfigure, so you'll fix it
[16:45:44] hashbang: sphery: nVidia's drivers have been pretty buggy when displaying Xv on interlaced modes
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[16:46:03] wagnerrp: stop dicking around with interlaced displays?
[16:46:06] sphery: heh
[16:46:18] hashbang: wagnerrp: that means a new TV or composite. Not acceptable.
[16:46:25] wagnerrp: my 8400 looks great on my old tube tv using svideo
[16:46:32] wagnerrp: no flickering, no blurring
[16:46:38] hashbang: wagnerrp: you should try a RGB SCART adapter.
[16:46:39] iamlindoro: hashbang: If an upgrade of hardware is not acceptable, then don't upgrade software
[16:46:41] iamlindoro: it's easy
[16:46:49] iamlindoro: Not upgrading is perfectly acceptable
[16:47:08] sphery: I don't remember any problems when I used to use it, but that was back when S-Video/Composite were still worth supporting--so it's quite possible that nvidia has left S-Video/Composite users out in the cold
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[16:47:14] wagnerrp: i really doubt your old tube tv actually accepts a VGA signal over SCART
[16:47:18] iamlindoro: We've given plenty of forewarning, we're not saying it's not okay for you to have youre needs, we're just saying we won't permit corner cases to hamstring progress of myth going forward
[16:47:23] iamlindoro: er your needs
[16:47:28] hashbang: wagnerrp: it does after I built a VGA to SCART adapter.
[16:47:40] hashbang: wagnerrp: http://www.nexusuk.org/projects/vga2scart/
[16:48:22] hashbang: wagnerrp: all it does is combine the H and V syncs into a composite sync
[16:48:38] hashbang: wagnerrp: then one configures Xorg with a 15kHz PAL modeline.
[16:48:57] hashbang: wagnerrp: I've had it working like that for over 5 years now.
[16:49:20] iamlindoro: It's not an argument worth having
[16:49:31] iamlindoro: we're not trying to convince you it's not okay to need XvMC
[16:49:32] hashbang: wagnerrp: best RGB device I have; better than my DVD player, XBox, PS1 and PS2. :-)
[16:49:39] iamlindoro: We're just telling you if you need it, don't upgrade ay more
[16:50:09] hashbang: iamlindoro: it's OK, I get where you're coming from.
[16:50:18] sphery: hashbang: put it this way, since even nvidia is (if not completely, nearly) dropping support for XvMC, it seems not a bad time for us to do so, also
[16:50:39] hashbang: iamlindoro: and, to be fair, I haven't tried OpenGL since my recent upgrade. It might be as good or better, and use less CPU too.
[16:50:58] sphery: opengl currently uses more cpu than xv
[16:51:09] hashbang: iamlindoro: last time I tried it with my P4 2.5/440MX it was way too slow.
[16:51:29] sphery: that may change in the future--markk has been actually putting effort into opengl support, now that he's not constantly fixing broken xvmc code :)
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[17:02:32] hashbang: sphery: cool, well, I'll look forward to that.
[17:03:55] hashbang: sphery: FYI. I've found that XvMC uses about 20% CPU compared with about 12% for Xv on my i5–760/7600GT. But the smoothness of tickers/credits/scollers is such that that's a price I'm prepared to pay. :-)
[17:04:42] wagnerrp: im half surprised this is mpeg2 content, and not h264
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[17:09:47] BLZbubba: which kernel module provides the HDMI audio device for nvidia?
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[17:12:22] skd5aner: How much are LOLCats worth? Apparently, the answer is $30 million
[17:12:31] skd5aner: http://mashable.com/2011/01/18/cheezburger-funding/
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[18:10:01] n0tk: does anyone know what the deal is with the error code /usr/lib/mythtv/filters is missing?
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[18:29:59] Beirdo: so... dvd changer is cool, but has its issues :)
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[18:33:52] skd5aner: ?
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[18:34:17] wagnerrp: he got one of those firewire connected dvd jukeboxes
[18:34:22] skd5aner: ah
[18:34:38] skd5aner: thought about those back in 2005
[18:34:48] Beirdo: it was having issues pulling in a disk (alignment issues)
[18:34:59] wagnerrp: speaking of which, mine had some disk alignment issues last night
[18:35:00] GrahamS: Hey guys thanks for all the help the other day I am 80% of the way to fixing my SPDIF input issues, I have DTS working but not Stereo... IE I can put in my copy of Avatar which has a DTS sound track and it sounds *amazing* but playing a mp3 with just stereo sound... nothing... speaker-test -c6 gives me pink noise out of the Front L and Front R speakrs
[18:35:04] Beirdo: and God help you if it thinks there's something in a slot when there isn't
[18:35:06] GrahamS: So confused  :|
[18:36:12] Beirdo: ripping a CD, it had a bad spot on the CD, the drive itself got tossed offline, and it took the changer offline with it
[18:36:23] GrahamS: Best money I spent was a few 2.5TB hard Drives and ripping my DVDs to them and then putting the DVDs in the attic :D
[18:36:29] Beirdo: and it thought that there was a disk in the import/export
[18:36:31] skd5aner: 2.5?
[18:36:45] wagnerrp: skd5aner: yeah, they make 2.5TB hard drives now
[18:36:55] Beirdo: took me an hour to convince it otherwise
[18:36:55] GrahamS: Heck WD has 3TB
[18:37:02] skd5aner: yea, I knew the 3TB ones
[18:37:11] skd5aner: but they have a special controller card with them if I recall
[18:37:11] GrahamS: but I ment 1.5 that was just a typo
[18:37:39] Beirdo: BUT... the turntable + USB preamp... worked beautifully
[18:37:44] wagnerrp: skd5aner: yes, because most controllers consumers would already be using do not support anything over 2TB
[18:38:17] GrahamS: Yeah it has to do with addressing blocks, just read an artical on Slashdot about it
[18:40:50] kormoc: Ahh... it feels good knowing my 2008 machine can handle the 3tb drives just fine. Go go EFI
[18:41:14] wagnerrp: yeah, apple was one of the first converts away from BIOS
[18:41:36] GrahamS: I have always shyed away from the newest biggest drives seems they have less reliability than some
[18:41:52] GrahamS: Plus the price premimum just does not make it worth while :D
[18:42:41] kormoc: GrahamS, typically they are no more or less reliable. Just some higher density platters with the same drive mechanics.
[18:43:48] GrahamS: Maybe just failures like the IBM deskstar phyiascos of years gone by seem to stick in my brain and I attach it to higher capacity drives, though I have no imperical evidence
[18:44:21] wagnerrp: the deathstar issues havent existed since the days of 40GB hard drives
[18:44:39] kormoc: it's totally just that folks buy higher capacity drives more often so when a hardware platform has an issue you get more folks with issues with higher capacity drives just because the market is skewed that way
[18:45:05] wagnerrp: and that was a purely mechanical issue, unrelated to the actual data storage
[18:45:17] wagnerrp: there was insufficient clearance between the platters and the case
[18:45:26] wagnerrp: so the platters would rub and fail
[18:47:33] GrahamS: I see
[18:47:47] GrahamS: As I said no imperical evidence
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[19:05:05] GrahamS: Well that was painful but SPDIF to my Surround Sound tuner works :D
[19:06:08] GrahamS: At least with MythTV and the internal player
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[19:07:05] GrahamS: Thanks for all your help to my inane questions
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[19:18:42] Beirdo: I hate netsplits.
[19:19:39] FabriceMG: hello
[19:20:00] FabriceMG: it's possible to downgrade 0.24 in 0.23.1?
[19:20:10] wagnerrp: in soviet freenode, netsplits hate you
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[19:21:31] wagnerrp: FabriceMG: no
[19:21:34] ikevin (ikevin!~kevin@lisa6.illux.org) has joined #mythtv-users
[19:21:41] sphery: FabriceMG: only by restoring a pre-upgrade backup or starting your database over
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[19:21:47] FabriceMG: i hate 0.24 ! now ,0.24 in livetv reboot my tuner ! (DVB-T->sasc-ng->backend)
[19:22:04] wagnerrp: erm... we dont support sasc-ng
[19:22:17] wagnerrp: nor will we aid your use of it in any manner
[19:22:31] wagnerrp: nor is there any reason to be using it with DVB-T for that matter
[19:22:38] wagnerrp: since DVB-T is not encrypted
[19:23:58] kormoc: wagnerrp, hey now! He's such a leet pirate, he pirates free signals!
[19:24:27] Beirdo: gotta keep the parrot happy
[19:24:27] sphery: pirate radio!
[19:25:07] ** wagnerrp wonders where his ship is parked **
[19:25:27] FabriceMG: it will be necessary for you to consider a TV commercial one time or another
[19:25:40] wagnerrp: eh?
[19:25:46] kormoc: FabriceMG, Your words make no sense
[19:26:20] ikevin (ikevin!~kevin@lisa6.illux.org) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
[19:28:19] kormoc: wagnerrp, perhaps he's saying we should buy something from a TV commercial?
[19:31:43] FabriceMG: Today , it's possible in France to buy 1 card without material and it's not pirate , I pay for that
[19:32:12] KaZeR: FabriceMG, \o/
[19:32:21] wagnerrp: FabriceMG: mythtv will work just fine using tuners with CI slots to plug your card into
[19:32:44] wagnerrp: mythtv does not support card readers, soft cards, or any of the like
[19:33:30] KaZeR: kormoc, seriously, there is paid channels on DVB-T in france (named canal+, amongst others)
[19:34:11] kormoc: KaZeR, and using software to decrypt those is not something we support or will support
[19:34:14] wagnerrp: KaZeR: then buy a tuner with a CI slot, and use a physical CAM
[19:35:42] KaZeR: kormoc, wagnerrp, i can understand why you don't support it, no problem. my point was just to say that software is cheaper (usb cardreader costs only 20$)
[19:36:15] FabriceMG: you can't avoid the problem by just closing your eyes
[19:36:21] KaZeR: even if at some point during setup, i wish i had bought a CI, because setting up software cam is a pita
[19:37:23] wagnerrp: thats fine, but the same software that enables card readers enables soft CAMs, who's use is illegal by any country's definition of the term
[19:37:45] wagnerrp: so yes, we can just avoid the problem by not supporting it at all
[19:38:04] AndyCap: wagnerrp: or be more proactive. :P
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[19:38:20] KaZeR: AndyCap, what do you mean?
[19:38:50] wagnerrp: he means we should follow the guidelines indicated here... http://mythtv.org/wiki/IRC#Softcam
[19:38:50] kormoc: FabriceMG, It's illegal. We're not avoiding the problem and we will ban folks for talking about it in here
[19:39:06] wagnerrp: specifically, those last two lines
[19:42:49] AndyCap: on a related note, are there no plans for pay-dvb-t in the uk?
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[19:46:00] sphery: heh, funny how many people are still saying (and, typically, not doing) in the thread on how someone hacked or stole the PS3 crypto keys
[19:46:24] AndyCap: saying/doing what?
[19:46:26] sphery: it /still/ sounds like they're telling wagnerrp and iamlindoro to go work on it or else
[19:47:01] wagnerrp: 'just because no one has stepped up and accomplished much with the PS3 over the past 4.5 years doesnt mean no one ever will'
[19:47:02] sphery: saying it's a good thing and it will be the best thing since sliced H.264
[19:47:29] wagnerrp: seriously, you've been able to run linux on the PS3 since the day it came out
[19:47:33] sphery: yeah, and when they do, the hardware will be so old and useless that it will be meh news
[19:47:37] sphery: like xbox classic
[19:47:41] wagnerrp: and youve had access to the PPE and six SPEs since the day it came out
[19:47:55] AndyCap: this? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/466950
[19:48:12] sphery: yeah
[19:48:29] wagnerrp: the fact that every project that has attempted to write video decoders using the SPEs has died off or stagnated with nothing of significant utility is a pretty good indication it will continue as such in the future
[19:48:41] sphery: there's one newer post in there that's also a "someone will do it some day, I believe"
[19:48:57] wagnerrp: one group managed to get Xv and XvMC working, but i cant seem to find their page
[19:49:07] AndyCap: of course the lack of a legit way of running linux on it is another nail in the coffin
[19:49:08] kormoc: http://www.stopmikelupica.com/sml/I_Want_To_Believe_poster.jpg
[19:49:29] sphery: wagnerrp: the fact that Sony killed the idea of using the SPEs for video and brought in nvidia(?) to make a real video card is a pretty good indication...
[19:49:50] sphery: the original plan was to do /everything/ in the Cell--including all graphics processing
[19:50:00] wagnerrp: sphery: no, the killed the idea of using the SPEs for opengl graphics, because the Cell at the time would not have enough power
[19:50:04] sphery: they couldn't make it work--even with all the internal knowledge
[19:50:08] wagnerrp: i have no idea what they use for video decoding
[19:50:22] cal_: looks like schedules direct server is down?
[19:50:34] sphery: well, I'm just saying that originally they had no plans of including a "traditional" GPU
[19:50:55] wagnerrp: right
[19:50:58] sphery: cal_: yeah, they've had some issues for the last couple weeks
[19:51:02] sphery: it's transient
[19:51:17] wagnerrp: but as far as i know, all video decoding on the PS3 is written in SPE code
[19:51:30] kormoc: cal_, give it 5 minutes
[19:51:32] sphery: that may be
[19:51:51] cal_: kormoc: its been like 20 now lol ;)
[19:52:06] sphery: I just assumed that once they got a real GPU they started using some of that
[19:52:10] kormoc: cal_, I just got a improving message, so give it a few and try again :)
[19:52:16] sphery: but it was pure assumption
[19:52:33] cal_: kormoc: where did you see that message?
[19:52:43] kormoc: cal_, in my email?
[19:52:58] cal_: oh your on a mailing list
[19:53:09] wagnerrp: sphery: unless they borrowed the new decoders from the nvidia 8-series, the chip in the PS3 is derived from a high end 7-series
[19:53:14] kormoc: cal_, I'm associated with SD so I get all the SA mails/etc
[19:53:19] wagnerrp: which only had partial hardware decode
[19:53:33] cal_: k
[19:53:58] sphery: the message on top of the web page now says improving, too
[19:54:04] sphery: http://www.schedulesdirect.org/
[19:54:11] kormoc: cal_, I'm assuming the issue is you can't add/edit your lineup?
[19:54:51] cal_: my lineups are gone, and yeah i cant add a new one.
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[19:56:13] sphery: so they're currently linedowns?
[19:56:28] cal_: lol ;)
[19:57:59] cal_: just upgraded to .24 was on .22 before, learning new features. will work on other stuff while lineups are down.
[19:59:16] kormoc: yeah, no joy. TMS is bouncing like a superball
[20:01:26] cal_: ugh. my capture cards still change their /dev/videoX numbers every time i reboot. was hoping ubuntu 10.10 would have handled that better.
[20:01:39] kormoc: cal_, just do a quick udev rule?
[20:02:02] tgm4883: It's my understanding that udev rules can't be automatically created for these devices
[20:02:19] cal_: yeah i remember messing with udev over a whole weekend on 9.10 a year or so ago and never got a rule that would stablize it.
[20:03:10] kormoc: what card?
[20:03:16] sphery: but this time, you have the experts here hoping to impress you :)
[20:03:30] cal_: pvr-500 and pcHDTV
[20:03:41] wagnerrp: tgm4883: yeah, theres nothing available to uniquely identify a V4L card
[20:03:55] kormoc: wagnerrp, pci slot number?
[20:03:57] cal_: i remember reading an article a long time ago on issues getting those two to play nicely using udev
[20:04:07] wagnerrp: even trying to use a PCI bus ID isnt guaranteed, as that can change if you add/remove hardware
[20:04:25] tgm4883: wagnerrp, I don't suppose you can pull serial number?
[20:04:30] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Device_Filenames_and_udev
[20:04:38] tgm4883: I haven't messed with udev rules in awhile
[20:04:43] wagnerrp: cal_: not sure why you would need UDEV for that
[20:04:54] wagnerrp: the -500 inputs should show up as video0 and video1, and youre done
[20:04:58] sphery: udevadm info -a -p $(udevadm info -q path -n /dev/video0)
[20:05:06] kormoc: cal_, udevinfo -a -p $(udevinfo -q path -n /dev/video0)
[20:05:14] cal_: well at this boot my pcHdTV 5500 is now /dev/video1 .. it was /dev/video0 last boot.
[20:05:18] tgm4883: wagnerrp, well there is an analog side to the pcHDTV as well
[20:05:29] tgm4883: whcih IIRC shows as /dev/videoX
[20:05:39] sphery: cal_: also, see: modinfo ivtv
[20:05:41] wagnerrp: yeah, but cant you just blacklist the kernel module that runs the analog half of that?
[20:05:54] wagnerrp: or are the analog and digital halves controlled by the same driver?
[20:06:09] tgm4883: I think* you can, but I haven't tried
[20:06:13] sphery: ivtv_first_minor
[20:06:17] tgm4883: I don't use the analog side of it
[20:06:26] tgm4883: just pcHDTV and HDPVR for me
[20:07:02] wagnerrp: anyone know if a PL2303 can drive an IR blaster?
[20:08:22] wagnerrp: wow... it costs netflix 20x more to mail a DVD than to stream it
[20:08:42] sphery: but they're streaming much lower bitrate, too
[20:08:46] tgm4883: wagnerrp, does that account for disk wear and tear?
[20:08:52] cal_: sphery: what info do i want from that command
[20:08:53] tgm4883: cuase it could be even more
[20:09:00] wagnerrp: tgm4883: no, pure shipping/bandwidth costs
[20:09:06] cal_: vendor/device addresses
[20:09:08] cal_: ?
[20:09:09] wagnerrp: $1/disk for shipping+return
[20:09:15] sphery: cal_: from which? udevadm or modinfo?
[20:09:20] wagnerrp: versus $0.05/movie for streaming
[20:10:11] cal_: sphery: either/or
[20:11:34] sphery: cal_: with ivtv_first_minor , you can cheat and just tell your ivtv to start at 1 or 2 or ... however many spaces you need to keep empty for pcHDTV cards
[20:12:07] wagnerrp: and then just continue not using the pchdtv cards
[20:12:08] sphery: or with udevadm, you need to find something nice and unique that you can use to pin that device to a minor number
[20:12:15] tgm4883: can't you just set it to /dev/pvr500–1
[20:12:23] tgm4883: or something similar
[20:12:44] sphery: yeah, you could do that, too, with udev
[20:12:50] sphery: or instead
[20:13:05] sphery: that's actually the best approach
[20:13:57] cal_: so i need to create a new rule file in /etc/udev/rules.d ?
[20:14:25] sphery: I'd suggest using ivtv_first_minor to start with
[20:14:43] sphery: then you can play with http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html when you're out of other things to do :)
[20:16:08] cal_: where do i edit the setting for ivtv_first_minor?
[20:16:41] sphery: /etc/modprobe.d/<something>.conf
[20:17:19] wagnerrp: looks like canal actually uses CI+, rather than CI
[20:17:30] wagnerrp: so its completely unusable with mythtv in any manner
[20:17:49] sphery: options ivtv ivtv_first_minor 2
[20:17:57] wagnerrp: (ci+ being a DRM scheme rather than just conditional access)
[20:17:58] sphery: or maybe you need an = in there... I don't remember
[20:18:44] wagnerrp: luckily its all SDTV, so a box and a cheap PVR-150 will work great
[20:18:55] FabriceMG: wagnerrp, , 0.24 fixe, mythfrontend -r , reset frontend appearance settings but not the language
[20:21:20] sphery: mythfrontend -p
[20:21:36] sphery: IIRC
[20:22:04] cal_: options ivtv ivtv_first_minor=0
[20:22:14] cal_: multiple googles are showing an =
[20:22:30] wagnerrp: yes, module options are set with an =
[20:23:06] cal_: and i can name this file for instance pvr500.conf ?
[20:23:11] cal_: with just that one line in it?
[20:23:13] jokajak: yes
[20:23:18] sphery: been a long time since I've used a module option
[20:23:25] sphery: cal_: yep
[20:24:02] cal_: how is this different from a udev rule?
[20:24:21] cal_: older method before udev came out?
[20:24:26] sphery: yeah
[20:24:32] sphery: and relies on drivers supporting options
[20:24:39] cal_: k
[20:25:04] sphery: in truth, ivtv_first_minor /may/ be newer than udev, but if so, it's only because no one actually wrote the tools to make udev config easy for users
[20:25:55] cal_: so right now the pvr500 is 0 and 2 and the pchdtv is 1
[20:26:14] cal_: so in that case I need 2 rules
[20:26:16] sphery: i.e. udev works and works great, but requires more knowledge than users should have to have. Distros, etc, were supposed to have created nice GUI configurators, but doing so was a large amount of work, so it hasn't happened
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[20:26:40] sphery: not saying they're lazy--just that it's a big job and there were easier shortcuts
[20:26:57] cal_: lol
[20:27:01] sphery: did you reboot after putting htat udev rule in place?
[20:27:08] sphery: if so, both should have ended up at 2 and 3
[20:27:15] cal_: not yet i think I need 2 rules
[20:27:26] sphery: or you're saying one card is at 0 and 2?
[20:27:37] cal_: minor is the first tuner for the pvr500 right?
[20:27:45] cal_: i want first tuner at 1 and second tuner at 2
[20:27:51] cal_: pvr500 has 2 tuners
[20:27:51] sphery: the ivtv_first_minor option applies to the driver, and since both use the same driver...
[20:28:02] sphery: minor is the device minor number
[20:28:09] sphery: i.e. video0 or video1 or ...
[20:28:12] sphery: the 0 or 1 in there
[20:28:28] cal_: yeah so what about tuner 2
[20:28:40] sphery: so the first will be whatever value you put for ivtv_first_minor
[20:28:50] sphery: which should be high enough to leave empty space for other analog cards
[20:29:05] sphery: you're putting your ivtv cards at the end where other things won't bump them
[20:29:39] sphery: so if you put ivtv_first_minor=2 , you have room for 2 other analog cards before ivtv could get bumped
[20:29:46] cal_: isnt it possible tuner 2 of the pvr500 would still grab the 0 slot
[20:30:03] cal_: even if i say minor=1 for the first tuner
[20:30:03] sphery: no since the driver was told that it has to start counting at 2
[20:30:13] cal_: ahh. k
[20:30:21] sphery: the option applies to the driver and both use the same driver
[20:30:54] cal_: rebooting.
[20:31:58] sphery: with udev, it's possible you could need 2 rules for devices (but in the case of ivtv, unless you need to tell them apart, there are easier ways that can be done with a single rule)
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[20:41:47] cal_: so far so good. going to reboot a couple more times to make sure.
[20:43:11] cal_: mythtv-setup thinks i have a card 4 set to 3_1 which does not exist. i dont even have a card 4 lol.
[20:45:03] sphery: the numbers mythtv uses aren't related to device numbers
[20:45:07] sphery: so you may have a card 4
[20:45:11] GrahamS: W00t Digital Audio is 100%, that was WAY too painful ;) Thanks everyone for pointing me into the right directions... sigh it would have been WAY faster less mucking around if ALSA did not have bug that required me to use an external SPDIF header rather than the on bored one that cost just a few hours!
[20:45:25] sphery: if so, you can reset numbering with a Delete all capture cards (see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 )
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[20:50:06] cal_: sphery: or just delete cardid4 from capturecard table? ;)
[20:50:53] sphery: cal_: doing that may leave other junk that can cause your system to stop recording in the future
[20:51:11] sphery: best way to clear out a capture card is Delete all capture cards
[20:51:16] cal_: k
[20:51:18] sphery: it won't affect channels or video sources
[20:51:25] sphery: it takes all of 2 mins to put them back
[20:51:30] cal_: oh okay i was afraid all that would go away too
[20:51:33] sphery: (30s if you practice regularly, like me)
[20:52:00] sphery: I'm competing for the World Championship in September
[20:52:11] cal_: but yeah capturecard table shows two entries of /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0
[20:52:19] cal_: which should not be possible to happen
[20:52:43] sphery: possibly different hosts
[20:52:57] sphery: oh, no, that's multirec
[20:53:03] sphery: it's correct
[20:53:13] sphery: previously, you had to go to the page with the option to enable it
[20:53:28] sphery: now, it's always enabled (so, if you don't want it--like me--you have to disable it)
[20:53:38] cal_: multirec?
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[20:54:21] sphery: ability to record (in this case--because you have 2 virtual tuners for your one pcHDTV 3000) from 2 channels on the same multiplex at the same time
[20:54:28] sphery: with only one physical card
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[20:55:44] cal_: all my connections got reset :( you lied, lol
[20:56:38] sphery: input connections go away
[20:56:45] sphery: channels and video sources don't
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[20:56:47] cal_: hmm I have 2 virtual tuners did not know that
[20:56:53] cal_: hmmmmm
[20:56:59] sphery: yeah, 2 is the default
[20:57:09] sphery: for all multirec-capable cards
[20:57:15] ** cal_ considers if that is useful to him. **
[20:58:03] sphery: it probably won't hurt anything
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[20:58:25] sphery: I only disable it because I don't use it at all
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[20:58:59] sphery: and, probably next time I reconfigure cards, I will leave it enabled because the new "force everyone to have 2" will throw off card numbering if I reduce it later
[20:59:32] sphery: unless it waits to write them... I'll have to play and figure out if it does
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[21:00:32] justinh: hahaha I just booted up my laptop into linux, ran mythfrontend and.. there's my analogue clock
[21:01:07] cal_: sd is still down.
[21:01:29] sphery: heh
[21:01:38] sphery: been a while since you ran mythfrontend on it?
[21:01:50] justinh: yup
[21:01:54] sphery: I remember when you were working on that
[21:03:07] justinh: me too. it was a fair while ago
[21:03:24] Beirdo: hmm, wonder what software to use for mass-CD ripping
[21:03:31] sphery: wagnerrp: nice post... good summary and explains the reasons (or, in this case, explains reason)
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[21:04:16] justinh: boy oh boy. I need to ressurect this work sometime
[21:04:26] justinh: we neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed rotation n stuff
[21:04:41] justinh: even just for simple widgets like this clock
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[21:08:59] justinh: http://pastebin.com/v2uxN8yn :D
[21:09:29] justinh: whoah! verbose output of mythfrontend is saying it's blurring images too
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[21:11:26] justinh: WHOAH. The blurring actually works too
[21:11:33] justinh: well kind of
[21:12:01] iamlindoro: justinh1: mark has committed GL shader support, blurring can now fairly easily be added by just adding a blur shader
[21:12:41] iamlindoro: per him all it needs is for us all to decide on the theming format for it
[21:12:57] wagnerrp: sphery: just hoping that didnt come off as a 'ps3 hater'
[21:12:59] iamlindoro: after which we can just start dumping in GLSL effects
[21:13:40] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, after a while, you get used to being a hater...
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[21:13:52] sphery: everyone knows me as the Atom hater
[21:13:56] wagnerrp: with dozens of games for my 60gb PS3, picked up at 12:05am release day, and being someone who actively investigated it for use in computational fluid dynamics, i certainly am not
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[21:14:26] wagnerrp: even when new, it never had the memory to be interesting
[21:15:36] justinh: iamlindoro: heh cool. now all I still need is more time
[21:15:50] ** Beirdo ships justinh a clock. **
[21:15:53] Beirdo: it's full of time
[21:15:54] wagnerrp: ive said it before, but rambus ruined that system
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[21:16:12] wagnerrp: rambus ruins everything
[21:16:26] justinh: been mucking around trying to make an IR blaster today, hooked up to my USB-serial cable & it doesn't work. Course it doesn't. not supposed to
[21:16:27] Beirdo: except rams that ride busses
[21:16:41] wagnerrp: Beirdo: they ruin that with high cost
[21:16:48] Beirdo: ah yes
[21:16:50] AndyCap: Beirdo: short bus?
[21:16:56] justinh: maybe I'll just fork out for a MCE remote thingy
[21:17:21] Beirdo: AndyCap: only if there's room in there. GW Bush takes up a lot of the bus with the Secret Service people guarding him
[21:17:38] justinh: I thought the internets were tubes not buses. Sheesh
[21:17:39] wagnerrp: if the PS3 cost an extra $100 so they could slap a DDR2 controller and an extra 2–4GB of memory on it
[21:17:52] wagnerrp: they could have completely done away with any loading times in games
[21:18:08] wagnerrp: they would have made it a a much more interesting platform for linux developers
[21:18:18] AndyCap: Beirdo: oh my, that reminds me http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/wp-content/upl . . . ats-next.jpg
[21:18:19] wagnerrp: they would have made a much more interesting blade system for IBM to sell
[21:18:35] Beirdo: hahaha
[21:18:48] Beirdo: mind you, that's referring to George H Bush, not W
[21:18:54] wagnerrp: its cheaper to get a pair of 4GB fermi cards, than a dual cell blade with 8GB of memory
[21:19:06] justinh: right. back into winduz
[21:19:08] ** AndyCap goes looking for the spitting image episode of "Where is the presidents brain" **
[21:19:11] wagnerrp: and you can easily make a very nice server to house those cards in for the extra $2K
[21:19:26] wagnerrp: and end up with vast amounts more power in the end
[21:19:43] stuartm: in anticipation of the mythmusic mythui port I've been driving myself stupid by ensuring I have good quality album art for all my music, it's surprisingly difficult and unsurprisingly tedious
[21:20:09] Beirdo: stuartm: I'm about to try to rip 200 CDs
[21:20:11] Beirdo: so... :)
[21:20:30] wagnerrp: yeah, but the key factor there is youre doing it with no user intervention
[21:20:42] Beirdo: hope to
[21:20:44] Beirdo: heh
[21:20:47] stuartm: Beirdo: heh, I did that last month, re-ripping everything that was less than VBR0
[21:20:49] kormoc: Beirdo, import them into iTunes. Run 'Download Album Art'. Import into mythmusic
[21:21:02] Beirdo: ummm, no
[21:21:09] Beirdo: I'm ripping to FLAC, not M4A
[21:21:19] kormoc: itunes rips to multiple formats
[21:21:22] stuartm: kormoc: this itunes you speak of, does it run on linux? ;)
[21:21:29] Beirdo: itunes can eat me :)
[21:21:29] kormoc: stuartm, in crossover office!
[21:21:40] Beirdo: and can it drive a changer?
[21:21:55] stuartm: Beirdo: when I come to re-rip everything as FLAC, I'll go through this pain all over again :(
[21:21:58] Beirdo: I think my best bet is cdparanoia with custom scripting around it
[21:22:29] Beirdo: but judging on how poorly it reacted to an error last night... sigh
[21:22:43] kormoc: and you can import them post-rip to embed the album art
[21:22:52] Beirdo: yeah
[21:22:55] Beirdo: that I might do
[21:22:59] kormoc: it's just the easiest way by far to get HQ legal artwork into your files
[21:23:02] stuartm: I rip/import everything through mythmusic these days, it's surprisingly competent and will shortly support the ability to write the album art to tags – but we're still short a comprehensive source for CD covers
[21:23:05] wagnerrp: winamp did wonders for my album art
[21:23:18] Beirdo: kormoc: good point, I'll keep that in mind once I get there
[21:23:21] justinh: buy ituned won't do flac :-\
[21:23:27] wagnerrp is now known as Be1rdo
[21:23:30] justinh: wagnerrp: winamp? :-O
[21:23:40] Be1rdo is now known as wagnerrp
[21:23:40] Beirdo: the changer... well it had some fun issues last night
[21:23:44] Beirdo: oO
[21:23:47] justinh: that still going, looking awful with terrible skins?
[21:23:47] wagnerrp: erm... that was stuartm, not beirdo
[21:23:47] kormoc: justinh, sure it does
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[21:23:57] kormoc: justinh, you just need Xiph's QT stuff
[21:24:06] stuartn: wagnerrp: this winamp you speak of, does it run on linux? ;)
[21:24:11] stuartm: Amazon/emusic/HMV are good for around 80% of my artwork, but there is still stuff that those sources lack (either completely, or in terms of quality)
[21:24:12] stuartn is now known as wagnerrp
[21:24:18] Beirdo: hehe
[21:24:23] kormoc: or prehaps it's fluke... one of the two
[21:24:36] justinh: QT as in quicktime?
[21:24:42] kormoc: justinh, yes
[21:24:44] wagnerrp: justinh: yeah, years ago they added tag and artwork download to winamp
[21:24:54] Beirdo: QT as in run away screaming? :)
[21:24:55] Beirdo: hehe
[21:25:00] wagnerrp: does a halfway decent job too
[21:25:08] justinh: I gave up on winamp when it started to take 5 minutes to load on a 2Ghz machine
[21:25:59] justinh: there's a nifty qt-based app I've used for album art downloading but it's a bit dodgy
[21:26:13] wagnerrp: looks like... 2 seconds to bring up the UI, another 6 to load my playlist, and process with a complex naming format
[21:26:43] dewman: speaking of fluke, I deleted my tuner card in the backend setup, re-added it, (hdhomerun,single tuner) rescanned for channels, fixed them all with the correct xml info but I have quite a few channels when looking at live tv I get the error opening jump program file. Is there any thing that I could check to see what might be causing that?
[21:26:45] justinh: wagnerrp: ah but do you have the AOL/yahoo winamp quickstarter installed? ;)
[21:27:10] wagnerrp: justinh: nope, no winampa
[21:27:14] Beirdo: OMG, doofus saying that PPC is handicapped at birth?
[21:27:17] Beirdo: hahaha
[21:27:20] justinh: maybe they went back to doing everything right after ver 4
[21:27:25] Beirdo: get a life.
[21:27:26] wagnerrp: version 4?
[21:27:48] wagnerrp: there is no winamp 4
[21:27:56] justinh: maybe I meant 3
[21:28:00] stuartm: even on professional sites like Amazon there is a lot of dodgy artwork, obvious bad scans, incredible examples of over/under saturation or just stuff that has been re-compressed/re-scaled so many times that it's little more than artefacts
[21:28:05] wagnerrp: winamp 3 was junk
[21:28:11] jamesd2: i miss the old xmms... before they bloated it with tons of crap... its probably the reason i kept my 200mhz SGI boxes around... ran great and did cool 3D art on a box that is 1/5th the speed of a modern x86...
[21:28:35] kormoc: 1/15th
[21:29:37] jamesd2: i meant a 1ghz x86 box but year compared it was slow but it worked miracles compared to the way they write code these days even linux apps are getting so bloated...
[21:30:36] wagnerrp: jamesd2: a MIPS chip is going to be considerably faster than a comparable x86 chip at the same clock
[21:31:12] kormoc: That's because they take the nix idea of one app that does one thing well and try to make it one app that does a lot of things well. Those silly developers. Now, back to talking about MythTV, the one app that does a lot of things well!
[21:31:32] jamesd2: wagnerrp, yeah but i'm talking about 10 year old 200mhz mips chips that do things better than a current chip because they wrote much better code without the bloat
[21:32:07] kormoc: jamesd2, so perhaps you should teach a class on how to do it better?
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[21:32:25] wagnerrp: if you want to remove the bloat, use mpg123
[21:32:41] wagnerrp: or even audacious
[21:37:27] jamesd2: kormoc, simple apt-get remove gnome  ;-
[21:42:50] wagnerrp: aside from schedules direct, does mythbackend automatically run mfd for other data providers?
[21:46:38] sphery: if you tell it to, yes
[21:47:01] sphery: and mfdb does run xmltv properly for those users
[21:52:14] nEo-1664: quick question, kinda a muppety one i must say, how can i find out what version of mythtv i have installed?
[21:52:26] wagnerrp: mythbackend --version
[21:52:49] Beirdo: Kermit the frog here...
[21:53:04] nEo-1664: fantastic :) thank you wagnerrp :)
[21:56:40] nEo-1664: ok, im currently running 0.23.1, how can I update it? apt-get upgrade mythtv ?
[21:56:51] nEo-1664: am running ubuntu 10.10 x64
[22:00:24] justinh: OMG winamp is SO slow at updating tag data
[22:00:46] Beirdo: s/at updating.*$//
[22:00:47] justinh: bye bye winamp. again :)
[22:02:06] wagnerrp: justinh: all programs will be that slow at updating it
[22:02:18] justinh: Picard isn't
[22:02:21] wagnerrp: its slow because you only have id3v1 tags, which are located at the back of the file
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[22:02:29] justinh: flac files :)
[22:02:33] wagnerrp: as opposed to id3v2 tags, which are located at the...
[22:02:37] wagnerrp: nevermind
[22:02:42] wagnerrp: dont know how those are handled
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[22:03:17] wagnerrp: i do know that its very slow about writing fresh id3v2 tags, because it has to recreate the entire file to write a block to the beginning
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[22:04:16] justinh: yeah well by slow I mean it's taking minutes to write back a few tens of megs
[22:04:36] wagnerrp: yeah, ive never experienced anything like that
[22:06:21] AndyCap: Heh, and I thought Picard was slow.
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[22:11:26] justinh: nah picard whips through an album's worth of flac in about a second
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[22:35:41] hashbang: evening all
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[22:40:58] justinh: evening
[22:41:05] justinh: bugger just remembered I shoulda rescanned
[22:41:11] justinh: meh it'll wait
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[22:45:13] nutron: sphery: where do you want me to dump my log?
[22:45:25] sphery: pastebin?
[22:45:27] nutron: gz attachment to the list?
[22:45:30] nutron: oh it's huge
[22:45:39] sphery: ah, then you could e-mail to me
[22:45:47] nutron: sphery: fo sho
[22:45:52] nutron: /m me
[22:46:16] sphery: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . ;list=mythtv = me
[22:46:34] nutron: oh oh heh :) I knew that
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[22:48:17] sphery: heh
[22:48:23] nutron: sphery: sent. I also looked for _anything_ that said atsc in the settings... nada
[22:48:49] sphery: heh, you sent one to the list, too
[22:48:56] sphery: (not a copy of that log, but an e-mail)
[22:49:04] nutron: I did?
[22:49:24] sphery: I thought
[22:49:53] nutron: Oh about my late recordings. Yep. Can't figure it out at all, I've debugged everything I could.
[22:50:54] sphery: oh, wait, it was an old one I hadn't marked read yet
[22:51:41] nutron: Ah, ok. Same thing though, I've pestered you here as well :)
[22:52:21] sphery: yeah, it was actually the one you first sent to the list about this--I had it unread so I could find it easy
[22:54:12] sphery: 2011-01–19 07:01:38.590 Reschedule interrupted, will retry
[22:54:17] sphery: us ubterestubg
[22:54:28] sphery: er, is interesting (missed the home keys)
[22:56:15] nutron: hah I thought you were trying to confuse me in german
[22:56:42] nutron: :). Yeah, I see a bunch of stuff that I believe shouldn't be there. I've considered dumping the db and starting the config again from scratch
[22:56:56] sphery: seems to happen to lots of people
[22:57:16] sphery: where, by "lots", I mean "more than I think it should"
[22:57:20] nutron: Though I don't know if that'd help us find a possible bug. Then again I could have messed something up somewhere along the line.
[22:57:51] nutron: What the reschedule interrupted? Yeah, though I'm not sure what could possibly cause it.
[22:58:37] sphery: 2011-01–19 07:07:45.439 Scheduled 4816 items in 177.4 = 0.00 match + 177.41 place
[22:59:00] sphery: is that about normal for you?
[22:59:05] nutron: Yep.
[22:59:18] sphery: even before this started happening?
[22:59:22] nutron: Yep.
[22:59:45] nutron: I noticed it started happening when I added the fourth digital box.
[22:59:51] kormoc: Interrupted rescheduling.... huh...
[23:00:11] nutron: The plan is to offload some of the work to another slave. I figured it can handle 4 inputs though.
[23:00:25] nutron: When I look at the recorded shows... they're all 2 mins short. So say..
[23:00:40] nutron: A 30 min show shows up as a 28 min show.
[23:00:44] sphery: I'm thinking the reschedule interrupted may have something to do with it
[23:00:48] nutron: 1 hour is 58 mins
[23:00:49] kormoc: I'm currently using 3 inputs, which makes 11 total tuners
[23:01:07] kormoc: and I don't see such behavior
[23:01:10] nutron: kormoc: ahh, wonderbra.
[23:01:49] sphery: which started happening when you added the 4th digital box? the 3-min reschedules?
[23:01:55] nutron: Hmm. At first I thought my channel change script was looping for a while before getting a lock. but the scripts all run at under 2 seconds.. so maximum delay is 8 seconds...
[23:02:00] nutron: sphery: yes
[23:02:02] nutron: well I can't guarantee that
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[23:02:13] nutron: I noticed it 2 days after adding the fourth input
[23:02:20] kormoc: nutron, have you tuned your DB at all?
[23:02:36] nutron: you mean optimizing or do you mean like adding indexes?
[23:03:06] kormoc: I mean changing memory settings/etc
[23:03:24] nutron: Oh.. nope. Just made sure it wasn't using any sort of binary logging.
[23:03:29] nutron: Otherwise it's stock
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[23:03:41] sphery: nutron: what do you have set for "Time to record before start of show (in seconds)" (RecordPreRoll)?
[23:03:54] sphery: is it 20s?
[23:03:54] nutron: I could up the limits if that's a suggestion that would possibly make this problem go away?
[23:04:09] kormoc: nutron, wget mysqltuner.pl;chmod +x mysqltuner.pl;./mysqltuner.pl
[23:04:16] kormoc: nutron, pastebin output please
[23:04:21] nutron: sphery: ack! I'm not at the machine.
[23:04:25] nutron: bah!
[23:04:25] sphery: no, I just need to know why it's consistently starting about 1min 40s off
[23:04:30] sphery: nutron: got ssh?
[23:04:42] nutron: :( no I should've finished my router last night
[23:04:47] sphery: heh
[23:04:51] sphery: no mythweb?
[23:04:57] nutron: not from the office
[23:05:01] nutron: just local lan
[23:05:05] nutron: bah bah bah
[23:05:09] sphery: I'm guessing you have it set to 20s
[23:05:26] wagnerrp: 4816 items? thats a lot of shows
[23:05:32] nutron: Time to record before start of show... that's in mythfrontend setup right? it's blank
[23:05:44] nutron: i'm pretty almost 99% sure
[23:05:47] sphery: or so... it seems to consistently start about 1:40 to 1:45 after the progstart
[23:06:01] sphery: it has to be a value--0 is default
[23:06:04] wagnerrp: with scheduler runs of that long, youre almost certain to run into issues
[23:06:05] nutron: kormoc: wget from what site?
[23:06:07] sphery: it is mfe setup, though
[23:06:14] kormoc: nutron, exactly as I typed it
[23:06:19] sphery: wagnerrp: we've had users running with 6-min reschedules
[23:06:23] nutron: sphery: yeah perl-ism.. blank == 0 == false :)
[23:06:30] sphery: not ideal, but we should be able to handle starting on time, at least
[23:07:19] sphery: ok, here's one starting at 1:53 after...
[23:07:33] nutron: kormoc: oh that's an actual site heh :o
[23:07:35] sphery: so it seems like something is causing a variable delay
[23:07:50] kormoc: nutron, .pl is a valid TLD, aye
[23:08:04] wagnerrp: sure, if youre polish
[23:08:25] wagnerrp: of course perl sure looks like polish notation to me
[23:08:28] wagnerrp: :)
[23:08:37] sphery: it finishes on time, but starts late...
[23:08:52] ** sphery prefers Reverse Polish Notation **
[23:09:01] kormoc: sphery, my guess is his database is extremely undertuned
[23:09:10] nutron: sphery: yes, always starts late, always finishes on time.
[23:09:13] ** wagnerrp prefers sane notation **
[23:09:23] nutron: kormoc: I emailed your line to myself to try at home later
[23:09:24] kormoc: wagnerrp, and yet you use python... ;)
[23:09:25] nutron: thanks.
[23:09:31] sphery: RPN is very sane for math
[23:09:40] wagnerrp: i want to enter commands into my calculator as i see them on the page
[23:09:43] sphery: I'll admit that Perl is not sane
[23:09:52] wagnerrp: not in the order the calculator stack wants to access them
[23:10:07] nutron: perl is just too lax
[23:10:11] sphery: actually, it's a more natural order for operators
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[23:10:43] sphery: once you really use it, you start to see how powerful it is, then it starts to save you a ton of time
[23:10:48] sphery: just like git...
[23:10:49] sphery: :)
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[23:11:13] sphery: (sorry--had to go there, even though I'm completely on the VCS fence)
[23:11:32] nutron: git? I've been trying to understand how I can bisect/blame/identify patches with SHA sums :( that's the only ugliness that scares me about git
[23:11:46] Beirdo: man git-bisect
[23:11:49] Beirdo: :)
[23:11:54] nutron: Beirdo: go away =)
[23:11:58] wagnerrp: nutron: you dont, you use the version string
[23:12:02] wagnerrp: 'git describe'
[23:12:13] sphery: don't you mean, Beirdo: git away
[23:12:18] nutron: aye :)
[23:12:23] Beirdo: and you don't need to use the full SHA1 :)
[23:12:38] nutron: Beirdo's a nut puncher.. everytime I try to make a point *BAM* there he is
[23:12:48] nutron: =D
[23:12:55] sphery: You just have to use sum SHA1
[23:12:57] sphery: not all of it
[23:13:11] Beirdo: you said you wanted to understand how to bisect :) the man page covers it pretty well
[23:13:32] Beirdo: man git-blame too :)
[23:13:43] nutron: Beirdo: I know, but complaining about my fears, rather than getting rid of them seems much more prone to discussion .. heh
[23:13:45] sphery: I was very disappointed to find that git doesn't have a git-trisect or git-quadrisect
[23:14:02] nutron: hehe
[23:14:07] Beirdo: hehe
[23:14:26] nutron: kormoc: so it's my db then? I'll fondle that thing to high heaven if that's the case
[23:14:38] wagnerrp: sphery: i would prefer a git-goldensect
[23:15:04] nutron: sphery: you wouldn't know where in the db I can check for those atsc complaints would you?
[23:15:04] Beirdo: or git-heterosect
[23:15:08] sphery: or git-halvesect
[23:15:10] nutron: hahah
[23:15:11] wagnerrp: nutron: thats what she said
[23:15:34] sphery: nutron: TVFormat setting
[23:15:43] sphery: should be NTSC
[23:15:52] nutron: in our internal tech help desk.. using the web interface.. the users have to request to have their box fondled... =).. geeks unite!
[23:16:06] ** nutron makes a note **
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[23:16:26] nutron: oh wait, I checked that this morning.. it's for sure NTSC in the db and via mythtv-setup
[23:16:29] sphery: I definitely agree that something is vurry strange here
[23:16:43] sphery: I don't know what it may be, but I'm leaning toward the reschedule interruptions
[23:16:54] nutron: i even removed my cards/inputs and re-added them
[23:16:55] sphery: and think that kormoc's plan of checking your DB would be a good plan
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[23:17:08] sphery: what kind of system is running mysqld?
[23:17:16] nutron: dual core opteron
[23:17:25] nutron: 4gb of mammaries
[23:17:28] sphery: perhaps you should get an Atom
[23:17:31] nutron: :(
[23:17:34] Beirdo: hehe
[23:17:34] wagnerrp: hes running it on his linksys access point
[23:17:44] Beirdo: you need a Molecule
[23:17:45] sphery: I've heard that they work great for combined frontend/backend/MySQL boxes
[23:17:50] nutron: wagnerrp: that's funny, I just bought one of those to play with openwrt
[23:18:07] nutron: Beirdo: a molecule?
[23:18:12] sphery: nutron: Linksys WRT65GL + OpenWRT ftw!
[23:18:13] wagnerrp: sphery: i heard they work great for controlling supersonic cars
[23:18:29] Beirdo: yeah. molecule.... i.e. several atoms attached to each other
[23:18:32] nutron: sphery: wrt54gl.. <--
[23:18:40] nutron: Beirdo: oh lol you lost me on that one :P
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[23:18:54] wagnerrp: oh wait, theyre just using it for telemetry as a publicity/funding stunt
[23:19:10] nutron: sphery: even modded with heatsinks and a thermal controlled fan ... no uglyness on the outside either.
[23:19:14] wagnerrp: Beirdo: is that the beowulf cluster?
[23:19:18] sphery: When I got my current laptop, the WLAN drivers for it weren't working, yet, so when I went to a hotel that I knew had only wifi for guests, I took my WRT54GL, then set it up as a wireless access point and plugged into it with a 40' ethernet cable
[23:19:29] Beirdo: wagnerrp: hehe, only if made from Atoms
[23:19:39] nutron: they're stellar
[23:20:07] kormoc: nutron, I have a feeling that it'd certainly help. FWIW I'm at around 4k scheduled recordings taking 13s to reschedule
[23:20:08] nutron: 29.99 for a refurb wrt54gl.. maybe 30.29 in USD now
[23:20:10] sphery: was a crazy way of doing it--going from wifi to wired, so not supported by most (any) commercial router firmware
[23:20:29] sphery: (and much cheaper than the $200 bridges or whatever they charge for them)
[23:20:30] JEDIDIAH__: is it possible to use an abitrary binary or script as a visualization plugin in mythmusic?
[23:20:36] kormoc: nutron, mysqltuner.pl will at least point a little bit at some easy speedups if that is the case
[23:20:50] nutron: kormoc: ok perfect.
[23:21:06] sphery: wagnerrp: supersonic cars?
[23:21:41] wagnerrp: sphery: yeah, some press release about the latest 1000mph turbine/rocket car having a trio of Atom processors onboard
[23:21:49] sphery: heh, nice
[23:22:01] wagnerrp: oh, whoops, those are only used for telemetry
[23:22:22] wagnerrp: and theyre actually using more traditional systems for vital control systems
[23:22:36] nutron: kormoc: oh wait... so .. you're implying that my db isn't getting it done fast enough right?.. during the reschedule?
[23:22:42] nutron: I should see a spike in loadavg then
[23:22:44] sphery: like Windows 95 on a Pentium III, right?
[23:22:56] wagnerrp: yesh
[23:22:57] sphery: the way all real-time should be done
[23:23:02] nutron: lol
[23:23:04] kormoc: nutron, that depends. You might only see a spike in IO
[23:23:29] nutron: iowait... hmm I don't remember
[23:23:42] nutron: I just know it hovers around .4 loadavg including the commflag runs
[23:23:53] kormoc: it might not be iowait if it's untuned enough
[23:24:00] nutron: a'ight
[23:24:06] kormoc: loadavg is pretty meaningless for this
[23:24:17] wagnerrp: so i guess this ffmpeg announcement was why jan neg said he would be busy with that for the forseeable future?
[23:24:24] nutron: i just remember one of our db's lagging like mad, the loadavg was insane
[23:24:39] kormoc: wagnerrp, likely
[23:24:48] nutron: ffmpeg? which announcement?
[23:25:23] kormoc: nutron, There's multiple types of waits in mysql land. Spin Rounds, Spin Waits, and OS Waits. OS Waits will be iowait, Spin Waits will just be used CPU, Spin Rounds will be 'idle' cpu
[23:25:27] wagnerrp: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-de . . . /103440.html
[23:25:48] Beirdo: wagnerrp: I would suppose so
[23:26:43] nutron: :o on the mplayer list?
[23:27:04] nutron: kormoc: I see. I like learning new things.  :)
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[23:31:44] mike|2: My schedule times are getting a bit long (3566 items in 46.9) mysqltuner.pl output: http://pastebin.com/0n5zb5Q4 anyone care to give advice? Should be default Fedora 14 settings.
[23:31:44] stuartm: nutron: ffmpeg list is hosted on mplayer servers, but there is no direct association between the two
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[23:32:11] stuartm: nutron: the other half of their stuff is hosted on vlc servers
[23:32:57] stuartm: both vlc and mplayer use ffmpeg and so they've lent resources that's all
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[23:34:12] stuartm: Janne has been contributing to both ffmpeg and MythTV for a long time, but his role over at ffmpeg seems to have increased
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[23:35:13] kormoc: stuartm, no more hosting on VLC servers anymore (as of today)
[23:35:37] stuartm: kormoc: aye, I know
[23:36:28] stuartm: kormoc: well, actually, from what I've heard that all depends on the two parties agreeing to work together ;)
[23:36:32] kormoc: mike|2, I'd set your key_buffer to 128M to start
[23:36:40] kormoc: stuartm, heh, fair 'nuff
[23:37:36] stuartm: as the story has been relayed to me, there are currently two groups claiming ownership of the project
[23:37:50] Beirdo: fun times
[23:38:22] kormoc: mike|2, second thing I'd do is increase the max_temp size and the table_cache
[23:38:28] jannau: wagnerrp: no, I was busy with other stuff unrelated to software development
[23:39:01] kormoc: jannau, ahh, fair 'nuff
[23:39:27] Beirdo: I hope you guys work out the issues on the ffmpeg side though. Seems like a large ouch.
[23:40:01] jannau: nutron: mplayer and ffmpeg used to share many developers (more than 50%) and both projects are hosted on the same server
[23:40:15] mike|2: kormoc: thanks I will give those a try
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