Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, November 26th, 2010, 00:10 UTC

[00:10:13]

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Beirdo:

I hate Qt. Pain in my butt/

[00:30:51]

acidfreeze:

ok so via apache

[00:31:00]

acidfreeze:

the mythweb.conf.apache

[00:31:09]

acidfreeze:

does that need to go into my apache config ?

[00:31:21]

acidfreeze:

or do i rename that to mythweb.conf

[00:31:50]

Beirdo:

you need to get apache loading it. The details are up to you

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[00:41:53]

rooter7:

Well, I can not get Myth 0.24-fixes to run to save my life. Anytime I try to watch Live TV the backend crashes!

[00:43:02]

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[00:43:07]

rooter7:

Only clues in the backend log are: SG() Error: Could not create builtinStorage Group directory '/root/.mythtv/tmp' for 'Temp'

[00:43:27]

rooter7:

LoadFromScheduler(): Error, called from backend.

[00:43:36]

k-man:

how do i create a search for any show with the word arabic in its description and title != "Arabic News"

[00:44:00]

rooter7:

Why does it use /root/.mythtv/tmp when I am running the frontend as my user?

[00:44:26]

Beirdo:

what are you running the backend as?

[00:44:46]

rooter7:

root, since the system starts it. (Debian Testing

[00:44:51]

acidfreeze:

beirdo: i keep getting forbidden when i have apache load the config

[00:44:51]

Beirdo:

!trout rooter7

[00:44:51]

** MythLogBot slaps rooter7 with a trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[00:45:06]

rooter7:

WTF?

[00:45:26]

Beirdo:

rooter7: the backend is running as root, that's why the backend is trying to use root's homedir

[00:45:40]

rooter7:

How am I supposed to start the backend, if not from the rc system?

[00:45:55]

Beirdo:

and if your debian setup does that, feel free to slap the debian packagers with a trout too.

[00:46:30]

Beirdo:

generally speaking, you shouldn't run the frontend OR backend as root

[00:46:46]

rooter7:

Should I start the backend from a KDE startup script as user?

[00:46:48]

Beirdo:

and you *must* run the backend as the same user that you ran mythtv-setup as

[00:47:03]

rooter7:

What is the proper way?

[00:47:17]

Beirdo:

I run it manually, dunno.

[00:47:36]

Beirdo:

but by this point, there MUST be startup scripts that will properly run it as a user

[00:49:59]

rooter7:

Oh, OK my mistake. My rc script is running it as the mythtv user.

[00:50:25]

Beirdo:

that's better, I guess

[00:50:26]

rooter7:

Nevertheless it tries to use .mythtv in the root dir, for some reason.

[00:51:16]

rooter7:

Since I run my frontend as bill, should the backend be as well?

[00:51:32]

Beirdo:

who did you run mythtv-setup as

[00:51:42]

rooter7:

bill.

[00:51:53]

Beirdo:

then that's who you should run mythbackend as

[00:52:24]

rooter7:

K. Could this be why the backend crashes on live tv?

[00:52:30]

russell5:

quick question? i am looking to get a new mobo and i use serial cable to change channels. is it worth getting a mobo with a port or just get a usb to serial or pci serial card?

[00:52:35]

acidfreeze:

beirdo: i have allow in the directory brackets. but when ever i include the conf file my apache starts doing forbidden

[00:52:37]

Beirdo:

oh quite possibly

[00:52:44]

acidfreeze:

i know for a fact it is in that file

[00:52:57]

Beirdo:

read your apache error logs?

[00:54:16]

acidfreeze:

[client 98.252.134.85] client denied by server configuration: /usr/htdocs

[00:54:26]

acidfreeze:

i greped and i don't see that anywhere

[00:54:28]

acidfreeze:

in config

[00:54:54]

Beirdo:

then check all your modules

[00:55:10]

Beirdo:

you probably are missing an apache module the config needs

[00:55:22]

acidfreeze:

can i see your config .. minus sql stuff?

[00:55:45]

Beirdo:

sure. Go to trac and read it

[00:56:03]

acidfreeze:

where?

[00:56:17]

Beirdo:

less sql stuff, I use exactly what comes from mythtv

[00:56:36]

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[00:56:44]

acidfreeze:

my apache loads fine and i can access everything with no issues until i load that config file

[00:57:17]

Beirdo:

then go through that file and figure out what apache modules you may not be loading that it needs

[00:57:21]

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[01:00:12]

acidfreeze:

has to be modenv

[01:01:08]

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[01:01:26]

Beirdo:

could be

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[01:02:13]

rooter7:

Beirdo: thanks, I can watch live tv on my hauppauge 1250 now. But exiting the mythfrontend I getLookupUDN()- bad device type '', not enough tokens

[01:02:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:02:54]

Beirdo:

not too surprising

[01:03:05]

Beirdo:

we've had some odd issues in that code

[01:03:13]

rooter7:

So not serious?

[01:03:30]

Beirdo:

while exiting mythfrontend?

[01:04:00]

rooter7:

Y

[01:04:02]

Beirdo:

I wouldn't care too much what happens during shutdown, but we would like to clean that up over time

[01:04:10]

rooter7:

Also though I am not getting any channels in my hdhomerun, even though its set up and channel scan from SD done.

[01:04:59]

rooter7:

In chennel editor I see all channels.

[01:05:13]

Beirdo:

you done a mythfilldatabase since?

[01:05:26]

Beirdo:

and restarted the backend since setup, I assume?

[01:05:31]

rooter7:

a couple, but maybe not after latest.

[01:05:42]

rooter7:

Y restarted

[01:06:37]

Beirdo:

Oooooooh, I see my bug now

[01:06:40]

Beirdo:

grrrrr

[01:07:08]

rooter7:

Meh?

[01:07:26]

Beirdo:

I'm debugging and testing in another window

[01:07:48]

rooter7:

To do with my sh*t?

[01:07:59]

Beirdo:

no, and please... language

[01:08:19]

rooter7:

K

[01:08:28]

Beirdo:

working on the core of the code, testing a massive change we are making

[01:10:28]

rooter7:

mythfilldatabase didn't help.

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[01:10:56]

Beirdo:

you set the starting channel?

[01:11:26]

rooter7:

a couple times, but it keeps getting wiped.

[01:16:35]

rooter7:

OK now it retained it. Had the preset channel different, so now made that the same.

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[01:17:16]

rooter7:

Just did the channel fetch again. Maybe I didn't wait long enough before. Will the button stay lit as long as it's working?

[01:19:54]

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[01:20:07]

Beirdo:

fetch?

[01:20:25]

Beirdo:

what is the HD Homerun hooked to?

[01:20:45]

rooter7:

Fetch channels button

[01:21:50]

rooter7:

(as opposed to scan for channels) in connect input to source menu

[01:23:58]

rooter7:

connected to Crumcast.

[01:24:04]

Beirdo:

ah

[01:24:14]

Beirdo:

can't help much on that, I only use OTA

[01:24:21]

Beirdo:

for my HD Homerun

[01:24:26]

rooter7:

Maybe I didn't wait for the fetch long enough.

[01:24:34]

Beirdo:

pretty sure there are instructions on the wiki though

[01:24:37]

rooter7:

Does the button stay lit while working?

[01:24:47]

Beirdo:

no idea

[01:24:59]

Beirdo:

I used scanning (as I'm using OTA)

[01:25:20]

rooter7:

K. I'll wait for a while.

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[02:08:25]

high-rez:

beirdo: He's in downtown seattle. Said he'd meet up with me in seatown to save on shipping. I think I'm gonna pick one up.

[02:08:57]

Beirdo:

cool

[02:10:01]

high-rez:

Save $8 on shipping. I think he's close to you.

[02:10:31]

high-rez:

Close to the ferry dock in downtown

[02:10:55]

rooter7:

one what?

[02:10:58]

Beirdo:

fairly close then. Pioneer Square-ish?

[02:11:12]

high-rez:

Beirdo: Exactly, sounds like it.

[02:11:16]

high-rez:

rooter7: http://rainshadowtech.com/default_files/HDMICECUSB.htm

[02:11:52]

high-rez:

Beirdo: So I'm thinking I'll write a generic library for serial CEC communication, and then an app that uses it to control myth.

[02:12:49]

Beirdo:

have fun :)

[02:18:40]

Beirdo:

ugh!

[02:19:05]

Beirdo:

so any process we start in the background... we leave running should the parent exit...

[02:19:32]

Beirdo:

another fun bug

[02:26:21]

rooter7:

Well I waited an hour with the Fetch Channels button lit. then exited and ran mythfilldatabase. Now watching Live TV crashes the backend again.

[02:26:36]

rooter7:

Starting to look like 0.24-fixes is just busted.

[02:26:45]

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[02:27:00]

Beirdo:

or you may be doing things the wrong way, I dunno

[02:27:26]

rooter7:

I can't seem to do things the right way. So to me it's busted.

[02:27:28]

Beirdo:

most of the people who use HDHR with QAM are likely stuffed/stuffing themselves with turkey

[02:28:13]

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[02:30:02]

biffhero:

I have .mpg recordings, as put on to my filesystem via the mpeg2 encorder card. How can I put those in mythvideo and not in mythrecordings?

[02:30:53]

Beirdo:

this little command called cp.

[02:31:05]

wagnerrp:

rooter7: you cannot 'fetch channels' with an HDHR

[02:31:11]

wagnerrp:

or with any digital tuner

[02:31:16]

Beirdo:

and no, the metadata will not go with it

[02:31:39]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: found and squashed some edge case bugs in myth_system today :)

[02:31:48]

biffhero:

beirdo: so simply move them to the other directory, and then scan for new? The shortcoming with that is that I have to … yeah, that's the main question. Thanks!

[02:31:59]

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[02:32:11]

Beirdo:

I think there may be scripts out to do the metadata stuff too

[02:32:27]

Beirdo:

I don't bother as I don't see a purpose to doing it in my use

[02:32:30]

biffhero:

beirdo: how do I find out what the file is? Oh, I will look for some scripts. In the mailing list archive?

[02:32:33]

rooter7:

wagnerrp: I see -all- my channels in the channel editor.

[02:32:39]

[R]:

wagnerrp: hes back! haha

[02:32:56]

Beirdo:

biffhero: on the wiki would be a good place to look

[02:32:56]

wagnerrp:

biffhero: theres a function on the wiki, mythvidexport.py

[02:33:05]

wagnerrp:

it does exactly what youre looking to do

[02:33:15]

biffhero:

The family is tired of seeing my 50+ episodes of "The piano guy" in the "watch TV" stuff. So I am trying to keep them happy.

[02:33:20]

biffhero:

wagnerrp: thanks

[02:33:38]

Beirdo:

heeh. tell them to build their own myth box ;)

[02:33:45]

Beirdo:

can you tell I'm single? :)

[02:34:05]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but you didnt even use mythtv the entire time you werent

[02:34:14]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:34:16]

Beirdo:

I couldn't

[02:34:24]

Beirdo:

stupid cableco from hades

[02:34:31]

biffhero:

this is a .24 app. sweet. Now I have a good excuse for updating from .23 to .24

[02:34:44]

biffhero:

beirdo: start a cableco for the rest of us.

[02:35:10]

Beirdo:

nah, move to Puerto Rico.... you'll be happy to have Comcast screw you over after that

[02:35:19]

wagnerrp:

biffhero: if you look back in the page history, you can find a 0.23 version

[02:35:31]

biffhero:

I am already enjoying comcast, now what do I do?

[02:35:46]

biffhero:

wagnerrp: thanks. Will do. Looks like this script is written by you.

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wagnerrp:

uh huh

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[02:35:58]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:36:03]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you ever try commflagging with your Atom?

[02:36:13]

Beirdo:

hahah

[02:36:14]

[R]:

wagnerrp: wouldn't it catch fire?

[02:36:14]

Beirdo:

no

[02:36:23]

wagnerrp:

yeah, didnt think so

[02:36:33]

Beirdo:

it was painful enough on Pentium-D

[02:36:42]

wagnerrp:

"i wonder if any atoms can come close to 1x"... im just going to answer no to that one...

[02:36:49]

Beirdo:

of course, a fair amount of my recordings are H.264 HD

[02:37:00]

Beirdo:

I'm sure tehy can just fine in MPEG2

[02:37:20]

Beirdo:

especially SD

[02:37:22]

wagnerrp:

on full bitrate ATSC?

[02:37:39]

Beirdo:

not sure, but there's a chance at least :)

[02:37:45]

wagnerrp:

maybe with the downscaling stuff...

[02:37:54]

Beirdo:

very slim chance, perhaps

[02:38:00]

Beirdo:

but a chance :)

[02:38:26]

Beirdo:

I guess I COULD test it]

[02:38:38]

Beirdo:

I just don't feel like right now

[02:38:43]

wagnerrp:

nah, dont worry

[02:39:11]

Beirdo:

instead of "no", maybe a "highly unlikely" :)

[02:39:33]

Beirdo:

that way it's harder to get proved wrong and have some dillhole come back and rub it in yer face

[02:39:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i said the dual cores might come close, but better to just buy real hardware

[02:40:09]

wagnerrp:

and linked to the toms hardware article about a 3.2GHz i5 system running at 23W

[02:40:41]

wagnerrp:

full system, chip, motherboard, hard drive, USB mouse and keyboard

[02:40:49]

Beirdo:

too bad i5 doesn't come in many tiny boxes

[02:41:34]

wagnerrp:

they were testing it with a micro-atx SLI board

[02:41:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, still quite large compared to some Atom solutions

[02:42:22]

wagnerrp:

sure, but you can get mini-itx ones of the same chipset

[02:42:33]

Beirdo:

:)

[02:42:35]

wagnerrp:

going to end up with something maybe twice as thick if you do it properly

[02:42:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, possibly

[02:42:59]

wagnerrp:

and thats only because you have to deal with the standard IO panel

[02:43:22]

Beirdo:

and clearance on the RAM and CPU

[02:43:36]

wagnerrp:

you can get low profile RAM, and a short heatsink

[02:43:56]

Beirdo:

the short heatsinks rarely fit on mini-itx though

[02:44:19]

Beirdo:

too packed in. still. yeah, you can make em small

[02:44:36]

[R]:

that's what she said?

[02:44:38]

wagnerrp:

if you have a case with a vent on top, its not a problem

[02:45:14]

Beirdo:

aye. shouldn't be

[02:45:51]

[R]:

http://frys-electronics-ads.com/ads/2010/11/2 . . . -Motherboard

[02:45:58]

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[02:46:49]

wagnerrp:

piece of junk

[02:47:07]

Beirdo:

cheap piece of junk even :)

[02:47:26]

wagnerrp:

regardless, not recommended for mythtv

[02:47:36]

wagnerrp:

not enough power in a 6100 for the opengl painter

[02:48:00]

Beirdo:

might bo ok for a backend-only, but.. meh

[02:48:15]

Beirdo:

beats the GPU I don't have in my backend :)

[02:48:37]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but youre going to have a much more modern board in yours

[02:48:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:48:56]

Beirdo:

Mmmm, i7 :)

[02:49:07]

wagnerrp:

s/7/5/

[02:49:22]

** Beirdo gives wagnerrp the evil eye **

[02:49:33]

Beirdo:

it's an i7, cut it out, bungholio :)

[02:49:33]

wagnerrp:

lies i say, lies

[02:49:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[02:50:05]

wagnerrp:

im not saying theres anything wrong with an i5, im just saying an i7 that is not

[02:50:12]

Beirdo:

yes it is

[02:50:33]

Beirdo:

your definitions are too.... defined

[02:50:37]

Beirdo:

think like Intel ;)

[02:50:40]

wagnerrp:

in my fantasy world, the divide is based on the interconnect, not the availability of some software switch to disabled hyperthreading

[02:50:41]

[R]:

http://frys-electronics-ads.com/ads/2010/11/2 . . . s-Video-Card

[02:51:01]

Beirdo:

it's a quad core with HT.

[02:51:15]

Beirdo:

so what are you mumbling about :)

[02:51:24]

wagnerrp:

and the i5s are a quad core without HT, using the same silicon, an the same interconnect, and the same memory controller, and the same...

[02:51:34]

wagnerrp:

screw it, its the same exact chip with HT disabled

[02:51:36]

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[02:52:55]

Beirdo:

heh

[02:53:08]

Beirdo:

you'd have a hard time proving it, but you are likely right

[02:53:09]

wagnerrp:

of course following that logic, the difference between the i3s and i5s would be the integrated graphics

[02:53:28]

Beirdo:

yeah, your logic is screwy (Intel-speaking)

[02:53:34]

Beirdo:

of course, in reality...

[02:53:37]

wagnerrp:

i really dont know the difference between the i3s and i5s

[02:53:39]

Beirdo:

their logic is screwed

[02:53:42]

wagnerrp:

the dual core ones anyway

[02:53:59]

wagnerrp:

oh, the i5s have 'turbo', the i3s dont

[02:54:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah, again... differentiating based off a software switch

[02:54:15]

Beirdo:

another binning issue

[02:54:17]

wagnerrp:

not anything hardware based

[02:54:27]

Beirdo:

it's not a software switch, I think

[02:54:37]

Beirdo:

it's failed/binned hardware

[02:54:49]

Beirdo:

yield management, etc

[02:55:04]

Beirdo:

but what do I know? :)

[02:55:26]

wagnerrp:

maybe early on, but im sure 6 months into their manufacturing, their yield is sufficiently high that its all arbitrary

[02:55:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, quite likely

[02:56:45]

wagnerrp:

my point is... HT is a pretty minor feature, turbo is a pretty minor feature

[02:56:55]

wagnerrp:

their naming scheme should be split along major feature lines

[02:57:44]

Beirdo:

it might be less confusing

[02:58:00]

Beirdo:

but anyways, my processor is sweet

[02:58:01]

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[03:00:47]

Beirdo:

Of course, they started the confusion back in the Celeron days

[03:01:09]

Beirdo:

why don't they just sell them as the core name + rated clock speed

[03:01:09]

wagnerrp:

wont argue there... im still fairly interested in a mini-itx i3 for a frontend

[03:01:20]

wagnerrp:

i think its perfectly doable for ~$300

[03:01:24]

wagnerrp:

case and all

[03:01:32]

Beirdo:

should be close

[03:01:47]

wagnerrp:

which is very competitive with any of the IONs

[03:01:59]

Beirdo:

my E5400 frontend (plus video card) was $450 I think

[03:02:18]

Beirdo:

with dual 2.5" drives

[03:03:00]

Beirdo:

I could ramp it up to C2Q if I needed to

[03:03:15]

wagnerrp:

i was finding $120 for the proc, $80 for the board, somewhere around another $100 for case, memory, and IR

[03:04:17]

Beirdo:

that's a super-cheap case

[03:04:28]

Beirdo:

well done

[03:04:39]

wagnerrp:

$50? yeah, cheaper than i would like

[03:04:51]

wagnerrp:

but it would be something i would stuff behind a TV and forget about

[03:05:57]

Beirdo:

as long as it has the ventilation and doesn't cause a fire :)

[03:06:42]

Beirdo:

so... myth_system...

[03:06:46]

wagnerrp:

at 25W, not likely

[03:06:55]

Beirdo:

I had to change it to use new/delete

[03:07:08]

Beirdo:

as background processes... would cause issues ;)

[03:07:26]

Beirdo:

always the little things

[03:07:37]

wagnerrp:

like i said... all that static and dynamic allocation and when you needed to do which

[03:07:42]

wagnerrp:

was beyond my experience

[03:07:44]

Beirdo:

and on closing, we missed flushing the input from the outputs

[03:07:48]

Beirdo:

yeah

[03:08:01]

wagnerrp:

ill probably start on the windows stuff tonight after beer and turkey wear off

[03:08:01]

Beirdo:

not a problem. :)

[03:08:11]

Beirdo:

hehe, so... Monday? :)

[03:08:22]

wagnerrp:

monday... commit?

[03:08:42]

Beirdo:

no, I meant, Monday the beer/turkey would wear off

[03:08:43]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:09:19]

Beirdo:

I think my next test candidate is the mythmusic ones. but not right now.

[03:09:23]

Beirdo:

I need a break

[03:09:37]

Beirdo:

did xmltv and lcd stuff today

[03:11:30]

wagnerrp:

what does mythmusic use it for?

[03:11:44]

Beirdo:

ripping and burning

[03:12:07]

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[03:13:38]

Beirdo:

well, cdrecord and a "post-rip script"

[03:13:42]

Beirdo:

not the actual ripping

[03:15:13]

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[03:15:27]

Beirdo:

heh. and for cdrecord... seems to be just for --blank

[03:15:33]

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[03:15:44]

Beirdo:

which... means I can't test it

[03:15:50]

Beirdo:

I have no -RW media

[03:17:16]

wagnerrp:

ive got a couple, dont know if they even work

[03:17:23]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:17:31]

wagnerrp:

havent used them in... 8 years?

[03:17:42]

Beirdo:

I could go buy a handful tomorrow, but I never use em

[03:18:07]

Beirdo:

I think it will give the option even if I have CDR in there though

[03:22:15]

clever_:

thats new...., streaming recordings gives much better performance then nfs

[03:22:44]

Beirdo:

only because people are clueless on how to tune NFS performance

[03:22:57]

clever_:

however, it seems to ignore the always stream option, i had to un-mount to make it work

[03:23:41]

clever_:

atleast one part of the problem is read-ahead clashing with an active recording, that cant really be fixed thru tuning

[03:23:58]

clever_:

didnt think it would have such a drastic effect on seeking though

[03:24:41]

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[03:24:46]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: IONs FEs can be had now for < $200

[03:25:03]

clever_:

Beirdo: got any tips on how i might tune nfs properly?

[03:25:29]

Beirdo:

!url lmgtfy nfs performance tuning linux

[03:25:29]

MythLogBot:

lmgtfy: http://lmgtfy.com?q=nfs%20performance%20tuning%20linux

[03:25:44]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: ive never seen any dual core Atoms for that cheap

[03:25:49]

clever_:

thats a new command

[03:26:16]

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[03:26:29]

clever_:

should probly start by taking the myth binarys off nfs

[03:26:39]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: Newegg had the Foxconn ION with the 330 for $145. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . p;nm_mc=BFUS

[03:26:40]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: my dual-core Atom plus HT (my firewall) was right under $200, but it's not ION

[03:26:53]

high-rez:

I'm sad they sold out ;(

[03:26:58]

high-rez:

I shouldda grabbed one when I had the chance.

[03:27:26]

wagnerrp:

are those complete systems? or just the board/barebones?

[03:27:29]

high-rez:

Man I knew I shouldda grabbed one of those a day ago.

[03:27:49]

high-rez:

barbones. have to add ram ($30) and HD (i'd just boot off of a USB stick for a frontend)

[03:27:53]

Beirdo:

oh, mine was barebones

[03:27:57]

Beirdo:

yeah

[03:28:11]

Beirdo:

makes a fine firewall though

[03:28:32]

high-rez:

$145 for the machine + $30 for RAM + $20 for a USB Stick or SD and you have one tiny silent Frontend

[03:28:47]

Beirdo:

which has no oomph

[03:28:59]

high-rez:

Not looking to compile on it

[03:29:11]

clever_:

my current frontend is an old laptop, just remove the lcd panel and use VGA out

[03:29:17]

high-rez:

Its a frontend to watch tv, that's all :)

[03:29:42]

high-rez:

But it'll do 1080p h264 all day long, so it plenty of oomf for my purpose.

[03:30:01]

Beirdo:

hmmm. I need a tool to sort my music library again

[03:30:11]

clever_:

if i had the money, id get a laptop with proper dvi out

[03:30:16]

Beirdo:

and no, iTunes doesn't count

[03:30:38]

high-rez:

clever: I'm sondering using my HP Mini 311 as a Frontend. :)

[03:31:53]

high-rez:

Hmm, thye have the black version available still but its like $25 more

[03:32:12]

clever_:

ive currently got the laptop under the center speaker for the sound system

[03:32:29]

clever_:

its about the same width, so it doesnt stand out any

[03:32:31]

high-rez:

This: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . 16-_-Product ... $200 with ram

[03:33:36]

clever_:

http://images01.olx.com.pk/ui/2/94/91/25179391_1.jpg looks more slim to me

[03:34:31]

clever_:

though by volume, the foxconn might be smaller

[03:34:54]

high-rez:

7.48" x 5.31" x 0.98"

[03:34:55]

Beirdo:

high-rez: mine is like that, but N510

[03:35:03]

high-rez:

That foxconn is /tiny/

[03:35:18]

high-rez:

Beirdo: ION2 ?

[03:35:34]

Beirdo:

no

[03:35:40]

high-rez:

Crystal HD ?

[03:35:42]

Beirdo:

N510 core

[03:36:00]

Beirdo:

GMA 3150 GPU, but what do I care, it's my firewall

[03:36:00]

high-rez:

ohh

[03:36:04]

high-rez:

Ahh

[03:36:15]

high-rez:

Heh my firewall is an old buffalo AP running dd-wrt

[03:36:22]

Beirdo:

they don't have it listed anymore

[03:36:22]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:37:32]

high-rez:

I thought about turning my beagleboard into a firewall

[03:37:38]

high-rez:

It would be pretty neat for that

[03:38:15]

Beirdo:

sorry

[03:38:17]

Beirdo:

D510

[03:38:22]

** Beirdo is an idiot today **

[03:38:46]

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[03:39:31]

high-rez:

They have D410's for $130

[03:39:45]

clever_:

ok, myth binarys are now in a squashfs image held in ram, nfs shouldnt effect it anymore

[03:44:01]

Beirdo:

D410 sucks

[03:45:11]

Beirdo:

the 330 and D510 are fairly similar spec-wise

[03:45:51]

Beirdo:

D525 is slightly better

[03:46:01]

high-rez:

Wow. HDHR single for $50

[03:47:32]

Beirdo:

$80 for a dual

[03:47:42]

high-rez:

yeah

[03:47:48]

high-rez:

great price points for both

[03:49:09]

high-rez:

I have a small ammount of budget for christmas. Probably gonna spend some of it on the HDMI-CEC->USB device... And something else... Just not sure what.

[03:50:04]

wagnerrp:

those are not cheap

[03:50:50]

high-rez:

What aren't? The HDHR's?

[03:51:09]

wagnerrp:

the CEC bridges

[03:51:30]

high-rez:

Oh yeah, they're quite expensive.

[03:51:45]

high-rez:

But I think it'll be the best way to interface myth into my home theater system.

[03:51:50]

high-rez:

:)

[03:52:28]

wagnerrp:

sure, if it were a real standard

[03:52:54]

high-rez:

It *appears* to mostly work on my setup

[03:53:18]

wagnerrp:

it really only works among like hardware

[03:53:26]

high-rez:

My Toshiba TV and Onkyo receiver are talking with it. I can change the onkyo's volume from the TV and vice versa, turn them off etc etc etc

[03:53:27]

wagnerrp:

you have to have all samsung, or all sony, or all toshiba...

[03:53:43]

Beirdo:

nah

[03:53:55]

high-rez:

No, that's not true. Regza Link and whatever onkyo calls their version of it

[03:53:57]

high-rez:

Are working together

[03:54:09]

Beirdo:

I had a Sony BluRay and umm.. forget what... TV

[03:54:19]

Beirdo:

they were fine

[03:54:21]

[R]:

i had a samsung working with a toshiba

[03:54:26]

Beirdo:

with CEC

[03:54:43]

Beirdo:

Toshiba TV, I think. It's the ex-wife's now

[03:54:56]

high-rez:

Regza Link and RIHD.

[03:54:56]

Beirdo:

bought it exactly 1 year ago in a few hours

[03:55:49]

high-rez:

So if a Samsung Works with a Toshiba, and a Toshiba with an Onkyo, I'm certain I'll be able to get my Onkyo working with my MythTV <tm>

[03:55:59]

high-rez:

I read through this guys document on the thing, and it looks very doable

[03:57:34]

Beirdo:

dangit, being sick is annoying

[03:59:23]

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[03:59:54]

clever_:

ive got a sony tv and sony dvd changer/sound system, and it seems to have some cec between it

[04:00:36]

clever_:

putting the tv on dvd input causes the dvd player to bootup, turning the tv off kills the dvd player too

[04:00:53]

high-rez:

It's actually quite neat. After I enabled CEC on my receiver, power states on now syncronzied between the receiver and the TV. So if one is turned on/off the other turns on/off

[04:01:12]

clever_:

it has some volume control when theater sync mode is enabled, however it doesnt enable when on the VGA input

[04:01:29]

clever_:

so its useless on the mythfe and needs 3 remotes to control it all

[04:02:11]

high-rez:

clever: I'm looking into fixing that for my setup.

[04:02:30]

high-rez:

clever: Getting one of these and gonna try to make it work as a network remote with myth: http://rainshadowtech.com/default_files/HDMICECUSB.htm

[04:02:40]

clever_:

if i use dvi->hdmi->tv, then it will work with 2 remotes

[04:02:54]

clever_:

the hdmi inputs allow theater sync

[04:03:29]

clever_:

a simple IR blaster and irexec script would let me do it all from 1 remote

[04:03:58]

high-rez:

I wish Nvidia had built CEC support into their moden cards :/

[04:04:51]

clever_:

stuck with an ATI card right now

[04:05:19]

high-rez:

sorry to hear that

[04:05:41]

clever_:

ive got it working now and its not giving any problems, just cant vdpau things

[04:06:01]

clever_:

seems the main thread in mythfrontend has crashed again, no control

[04:06:07]

high-rez:

isn't there some support now for vaapi with ati ?

[04:06:29]

clever_:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon RV250 [Mobility FireGL 9000] (rev 02)

[04:06:32]

clever_:

probly too old

[04:10:28]

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[04:17:39]

bmidgley:

hey, which table refers to mplexid in dtv_multiplex?

[04:17:47]

bmidgley:

trying to figure out how to fix one frequency

[04:25:05]

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[04:30:30]

high-rez:

huh?

[04:31:01]

[R]:

bmidgley: fix it in mythtv-setup where you're supposed to?

[04:31:14]

wagnerrp:

database stuff, if you dont know what hes talking about, dont worry about it

[04:31:45]

high-rez:

I know what he's talking about. I'm quite familiar – but the question doesn't make sense.

[04:32:07]

high-rez:

i mean mplexid is a column in dtv_multiplex

[04:33:18]

wagnerrp:

right, its just an autoincrement value, used to index by the channel table

[04:34:09]

high-rez:

right, where each channel references the mplexid that defines the transports chraceteristics. still, i don't understand what he wants to know :)

[04:34:40]

Perdignus:

Might "Waited 100ms for video buffers AAAAAAAAAAAAAAALL" indicate an underpowered video card?

[04:35:06]

[R]:

Perdignus: unless you are using opengl or vdpau... the "power" of the video card is irrelevent

[04:35:06]

high-rez:

I think its more of an indication of IO contention

[04:35:43]

high-rez:

E.g. its waiting to fill the buffer which it feeds to the decoder, but its taking too long to do so

[04:35:52]

bmidgley:

[R] mythtv-setup messes up every channel now if I rescan

[04:36:35]

Perdignus:

maybe under powereed wasn't a good guess, not enought video memory then? I'm using VDPAU with a 512MB GeForce 8800 GT

[04:37:33]

high-rez:

your card is fine for almost anything you wanna do

[04:37:47]

Wicked:

hmm. lirc was updated today on arch linux and now when i press a button in mythfrontend its registered as two button presses which makes navigating menus next to impossible.

[04:37:59]

Wicked:

any ideas what would cause this? it never did this in the past

[04:37:59]

high-rez:

do you see frame jumpyness during the time its logging?

[04:38:03]

[R]:

Perdignus: 512 is tons for vdpau

[04:38:16]

[R]:

Wicked: so fix your repeat

[04:38:46]

Wicked:

not sure what you mean

[04:39:28]

[R]:

Wicked: than i suggest you read the lirc documentation

[04:40:47]

high-rez:

Wicked: You need to edit the lirc config file. There's a "repeat = 2" for your buttons probably.

[04:40:56]

Wicked:

ah thanks high-rez

[04:41:23]

high-rez:

try to look at ~/.mythtv/lircrc

[04:54:14]

Perdignus:

Does "additional audio buffering" still exist?

[04:57:48]

bmidgley:

anyone able to get an sql update using scte65scan to work?

[04:58:21]

bmidgley:

on my setup it just seems to break the connections to the channel table entries

[04:59:31]

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[04:59:34]

bmidgley:

maybe it only works if you created everything from scratch using scte65scan

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Gibby_away is now known as Gibby

[05:33:07]

Gibby:

anyway to have mythfrontends in sync on playing media(music, livetv,videos)?

[05:34:24]

[R]:

Gibby: covered a million times on the ml

[05:34:56]

wagnerrp:

and in each, the answer is no

[05:34:59]

Gibby:

hmm ok, thought i would have saw it in the wiki or forums, will search there since i don't subscribe to them

[05:35:15]

wagnerrp:

synchronizing video is easy, since youre not likely to see multiple

[05:35:24]

wagnerrp:

synchronizing audio is /very/ difficult

[05:35:44]

wagnerrp:

since you have to be matched on the order of a millisecond or so

[05:35:46]

[R]:

ffs... why is it so hard to make a debian installer start with network console

[05:37:36]

[R]:

oh well... i'll just use serial console to get it working

[05:38:38]

Gibby:

wagnerrp... I got it working with VLC, with both music and videos, even tested with screens side/side on 2 different computers... couldn't even notice...

[05:39:41]

biffhero:

wagnerrp: I have your v.23 of the mythvidexport.pl script. In the mythweb UI, I am entering it like this: mythvidexport.py —starttime=%STARTTIME% —chanid=%CHANID% — Is that right?

[05:42:14]

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[05:42:14]

wagnerrp:

where exactly are you entering this in mythweb?

[05:43:56]

biffhero:

http://a.b.c.d/mythweb/settings/mythtv —> MythTV —> Settings Table —> Edit settings for: -All Hosts- —> UserJob3

[05:44:30]

wagnerrp:

no no no... you want to edit those in mythtv-setup

[05:44:35]

wagnerrp:

and then you want to restart your backend

[05:45:02]

[R]:

ROFL

[05:45:03]

wagnerrp:

and you want to give it the %JOBID%, not chanid and starttime

[05:45:09]

[R]:

is that guy on the ml talkin about zap2it seroius?

[05:45:27]

biffhero:

ok. I saw instructions on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Jobs that said either place was the place to do it. i will try that, then. thx

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[06:44:27]

wagnerrp:

so is this robert eden's first experience with the stream-of-consciousness grounded mike?

[06:48:40]

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[06:48:44]

ByteChang:

Hi folks

[06:48:58]

ByteChang:

Is there a way to embed myth's recordings into my webpage?

[06:49:31]

wagnerrp:

mythweb doesnt cut it?

[06:49:40]

ByteChang:

I love that program.

[06:50:23]

ByteChang:

But, I want to give my brother and neice access to some of the recordings.

[06:50:42]

wagnerrp:

and you dont want to open up access to them?

[06:50:47]

ByteChang:

Is there a user level option in Mythweb?

[06:50:56]

ByteChang:

yes, setup screen, etc...

[06:51:03]

wagnerrp:

no, there is not

[06:51:11]

ByteChang:

I don't want them modifing my DB or something...

[06:51:32]

ByteChang:

What about embedding it into a webpage?

[06:51:33]

wagnerrp:

you can write your own page and access those recordings in exactly the same manner mythweb does

[06:51:46]

ByteChang:

Yeah, that is what i was thinkiing.

[06:52:24]

wagnerrp:

see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Myth_Protocol or http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythXML

[06:52:34]

ByteChang:

just wasn't sure if I had to go that route... or if there was something else available.

[06:52:56]

ByteChang:

Mythvideo is just a frontend app I think.

[06:53:02]

ByteChang:

but also looks nice.

[06:53:08]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo is a frontend plugin, yes

[06:56:11]

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[06:58:51]

ByteChang:

man that looks complicated... hehe...

[07:03:27]

wagnerrp:

well if you want a list of recordings, thats what you need to do

[07:03:50]

wagnerrp:

backend protocol or xml, your choice

[07:03:57]

wagnerrp:

the xml interface will likely be easier to manage

[07:04:05]

wagnerrp:

less custom code to write

[07:05:10]

wagnerrp:

why is SciFi playing the Bond movies?

[07:09:07]

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[07:14:43]

ByteChang:

Now I'm thinking it is a lot easier to just disable the setup button. lol

[07:16:33]

wagnerrp:

and the delete buttons, and the rule controls, and the....

[07:16:47]

ByteChang:

hehe, yeah, i just thought of that delete button...

[07:16:55]

ByteChang:

your right...

[07:17:14]

ByteChang:

sometimes saying 'don't touch' is not enough...

[07:17:17]

ByteChang:

or inviting...

[07:20:37]

ByteChang:

ok, well, thanks wagnerrp... Appreciate the tips.

[07:20:47]

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[08:01:19]

noneofit:

:) Hi Everybody!

[08:01:19]

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[08:01:31]

noneofit:

test test 1 2 3

[08:03:08]

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[08:09:10]

cesman:

hello noneofit

[08:12:36]

noneofit:

anyone time to answer studip newbie questions on setting things up ?!

[08:13:35]

[R]:

you need to ask your question before anyone can knwo if they can help

[08:14:48]

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[08:15:23]

noneofit:

see, i need to know if mythbuntu is the right choice on my nettop (no tv-card) to manage my mp3 AND personal video library. is there a better option if i don?t want to use the tv option ?!

[08:15:49]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is for... tv

[08:16:06]

wagnerrp:

for the scheduled recording and playback of broadcast television

[08:16:12]

wagnerrp:

it will not run without a tuner

[08:16:24]

[R]:

that's what she said

[08:16:36]

wagnerrp:

at the moment, the backend refuses to run without a tuner, assuming its a misconfigured setup

[08:16:47]

wagnerrp:

and the frontend refuses to run without a backend to connect to

[08:17:24]

noneofit:

well. i have a installed mythbuntu that can already play my videos on harddisk...

[08:17:49]

wagnerrp:

while there is the mythvideo plugin for dealing with videos, and the mythmusic plugin for dealing with music

[08:17:57]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is not designed to be run tunerless

[08:19:35]

noneofit:

there is a difference betw. mythTV an mythbuntu, isnt?t it?! so is there another htpc distribution of linux i can use on my nettop?!

[08:19:58]

wagnerrp:

mythbuntu is a version of ubuntu with mythtv pre-installed

[08:20:10]

noneofit:

i know

[08:20:36]

wagnerrp:

meaning there is no difference

[08:20:40]

wagnerrp:

they are both mythtv

[08:20:50]

wagnerrp:

and they both have the same limitation of requiring a tuner card

[08:21:13]

wagnerrp:

additionally, youre 'nettop' is probably not the idea machine for video playback

[08:22:10]

noneofit:

i but i am running mythbuntu without a card and it plays my music and videos.... i just have probs to get my voedeso on my hard disk into the library.

[08:22:11]

wagnerrp:

ones with nvidia graphics (IONs) will do decently enough

[08:22:23]

noneofit:

and video playback wortks fine on my nettopn ;)

[08:22:28]

wagnerrp:

but ones using intel graphics are not new enough to be supported by VAAPI

[08:22:38]

wagnerrp:

and the Atom itself is not powerful enough for most things HD

[08:22:43]

wagnerrp:

certainly not anything h264

[08:23:54]

wagnerrp:

if you ware playing music and videos on mythbuntu without having run mythtv-setup, defined a tuner card, set up a source with channels, mapped that source to your tuner input, run the backend, run the frontend, set up your storage directories, scanned for content...

[08:24:03]

wagnerrp:

then you are using some other player besides mythtv

[08:24:21]

wagnerrp:

did you open a file browser and run these using the gnome default player, totem?

[08:24:28]

wagnerrp:

totem != mythtv

[08:25:36]

noneofit:

theres the catch! i ran the files with the onboard vlc...

[08:25:49]

wagnerrp:

vlc != mythtv

[08:27:13]

noneofit:

so there is absolutely no freaking way to havy my existing files (mp3 and various video formats) managed in/by/whatever mythbuntu, is that my rigth conclusion?

[08:27:46]

wagnerrp:

no, mythtv can handle mp3s and assorted videos just fine in the mythmusic and mythvideo plugins

[08:27:57]

wagnerrp:

those plugins run in mythfrontend

[08:28:02]

cesman:

noneofit: essentially, if you are looking for playback of media you already have, mythtv isn't the best tool for you

[08:28:04]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend requires a running mythbackend to connect to

[08:28:22]

cesman:

noneofit: there is a reason it is call mythTV

[08:28:23]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend requires a properly configured tuner with channels, or else it will immediately close on a sanity check

[08:28:50]

cesman:

cesman: you should look at XBMC, moovida or even boxee

[08:28:54]

noneofit:

see. thats what i needet to know way up there....

[08:29:27]

wagnerrp:

thats what we told you way up there... mythtv cannot be used without a tuner card

[08:29:31]

noneofit:

you guys make it hard for newbies to get in to that linux stuff ;(

[08:29:33]

cesman:

noneofit: wagnerrp did point that out way up there

[08:29:56]

cesman:

noneofit: over 7 years ago, I created a distro specially to get MythTV up and running

[08:30:01]

cesman:

don't tell me I make it hard

[08:30:07]

noneofit:

;)

[08:31:03]

noneofit:

awesome. thanks guys and sorry for any inconvenience ;)

[08:31:20]

cesman:

you're welcome

[08:31:23]

cesman:

good luck

[08:32:59]

** cesman wonders off to watch not just tv but mythtv **

[08:34:10]

** wagnerrp wonders off to a comfy bed **

[08:46:18]

dustybin:

i am trying to get mplayer to play .pls files (radio streams) from within mythvideo

[08:46:51]

dustybin:

my mythvideo player for .pls files is: mplayer -playlist %s

[08:47:16]

dustybin:

when i try and execute a stream, mplayer trys to load: myth://Videos@192.168.1.100:6543/Radio/subflow.pls

[08:47:56]

dustybin:

all i need is the .pls file, maybe there is another switch instead of %s ?

[08:48:40]

[R]:

you can't use external players with storage groups

[08:48:52]

dustybin:

oh

[08:50:40]

dustybin:

i wonder if i can use mythmusic instead, set a file type etc

[08:58:18]

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[10:03:44]

noneofit:

so, for using my nettop as an htpc, xbmc live is my better option ?! i don?t need recorsding or live tv so far...

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[10:30:32]

stuartm:

"1 blueray 720p mkv rip that works fine without the change(2GB)"

[10:30:40]

stuartm:

ok, that gave me a good laugh

[10:32:14]

stuartm:

why would anyone rip a bluray disc to a filesize less than 10% of the original? Less than many SD recordings?

[10:34:47]

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[10:50:00]

stuarta:

illegal reasons

[10:52:07]

sid3windr:

hehe

[10:52:12]

sid3windr:

takes less time to upload ;)

[10:52:23]

quicksilver:

maybe it was only a single episode of faulty towers

[10:52:32]

quicksilver:

2G for 25minutes isn't a terrible bitrate for 720

[10:53:51]

stuarta:

too old to come on blueray

[10:54:33]

quicksilver:

shame.

[10:54:40]

quicksilver:

I demind john cleese remastered in HD.

[10:54:42]

quicksilver:

and a pony.

[10:54:45]

quicksilver:

and a spell-corrector.

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[13:08:51]

eval-:

I have a question about the minimum disk space requirements for MythTV-backend and associated packages...

[13:10:28]

eval-:

I have a system (Dockstar) with very tiny NAND (256mb) and am running a tiny install of emdebian on it.. when I try to pull just mythtv-backend from the debian-multimedia repo, it informs me that I need 142 other packages, and "After this operation, 234 MB of additional disk space will be used."

[13:12:25]

stuartm:

we can't really tell about the requirements of 'associated packages' as which packages are pulled in depends very much on the distro, some packages are going to pull in optional dependencies or dependencies that MythTV itself won't need

[13:12:42]

eval-:

A ton of QT and X stuff, fonts, etc... is this all really necessary? Can I run mythtv-backened without much of this? I suppose I'd have to build it myself and tweak a lot of ./configure options...

[13:13:15]

eval-:

Has anyone trimmed down mythtv-backend to the smallest possible, and possibly written about their experience somewhere?

[13:13:45]

stuartm:

QT is required, X isn't strictly required if the backend package only contains the backend, but X is required for configuration

[13:13:45]

sid3windr:

you can't shake qt

[13:14:13]

stuartm:

QT is NOT a gui thing, can't stress that enough

[13:14:32]

eval-:

I see. The backend is also using QT classes?

[13:15:16]

eval-:

Can QT be built without requiring a ton of X in the process? (libgl, all these fonts, quicktime, etc)

[13:15:30]

stuartm:

QT is a cross-platform toolkit which is used by MythTV for a wide variety of purposes including networking, string manipulation, xml parsing, containers, event handling etc

[13:15:50]

jduggan:

bread making

[13:15:56]

eval-:

I suspect my goal is impossible then, since with the transcode/mjpeg and libqt classes there's no way I can get mythtv down to 100mb

[13:16:03]

eval-:

erm, mythtv-backend

[13:16:15]

eval-:

Yes yes I've programmed in QT and understand it's usefulness and versatility

[13:16:25]

stuartm:

eval-: those should only be pulled in by the QT gui module

[13:18:02]

stuartm:

transcode/mjpeg shouldn't be pulled in by the backend?

[13:19:27]

eval-:

Hmm OK. So then this might be feasible, if I build everything myself and tweak all the dependencies

[13:19:49]

stuartm:

eval-: fwiw Debian MythTV packages are known to have several problems, we don't recommend them at all

[13:21:48]

stuartm:

you might go as far as saying that they are not MythTV at all, and that like Firefox we're close to forcing them to rename their packages

[13:22:19]

eval-:

OK then. And I'm sure Maemo and other projects have shrunk QT more successfully. So if I build from scratch and work backwards, I might be able to get everything to a more manageable size, but I'd basically then also have to compile any QT stuff I want.

[13:24:07]

eval-:

What's your personal opinion, feasible to have the libqt / perl pieces needed + the backend under 100meg (with apache/web iface)? Or is this a foolish quest. The box is much faster from NAND than USB, and I'd probably rather connect a real drive to record onto anyway...

[13:25:57]

stuartm:

some packagers are good people, others have way too much power, they can apply patches and make code changes to the official versions and then re-distribute them as the original product, they often work alone and you have no recourse to dispute their actions :( It's a failing of the packaging system that packagers can mess with the applications they package in this way and most users won't know the difference

[13:26:51]

stuartm:

e.g. Think you're getting Firefox on Debian? Err, no, which is why Mozilla felt compelled to bring their legal weight against Debian and force a rename

[13:27:12]

stuartm:

Debian packagers seem to be particularly bad, but they aren't alone

[13:27:16]

eval-:

Should I just drop emdebian completely and go gentoo? Is the state of MythTV things better there? I suspect I'd have much more control (and yet, still some structure, and the benefit that the QT packages I compile could provide for other packages than mythtv) to how I get the minimum pieces of everything necessary to run the backend

[13:27:45]

eval-:

emdebian has been pissing me off for a number of reasons. but i do like how slim it's made the core system, cutting out a lot of fluff/docs

[13:28:32]

stuartm:

I can't advocate one distro over another, especially a highly specialised distro for embedded use, I just don't have experience in that area

[13:28:57]

stuartm:

seems Gentoo might be suitable, but it could also involve a lot of work

[13:34:58]

eval-:

Yes it will certainly delay my getting to play with MythTV! ;) Which my colleagues are laughing at me for anyway, since apparently in Germany you can download freely on the web via onlinetvrecorder.com

[13:35:27]

eval-:

I will look into gentoo. In the long run, the learning curve might be worth it if I choose to play with more embedded devices, to really tailor each install

[13:35:35]

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[13:36:07]

eval-:

I don't quite hate debian though, and at least THEY weren't responsible for all of a certain distro's ssh keys having an effective 15bits of security... for 2 years, ahem

[13:36:24]

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[13:43:49]

Saviq:

hi everyone, I got upgraded to 0.24 yesterday (rev. 27334) and now mythfrontend hogs one of my cores during playback (dropping frame as a result)

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[13:51:26]

Saviq:

hi everyone, I got upgraded to 0.24 yesterday (rev. 27334) and now mythfrontend hogs one of my cores during playback (dropping frame as a result)

[13:51:34]

Saviq:

-v playback,audio only mentions the framedrops, nothing else that's interesting

[13:52:15]

eval-:

crap. the gentoo on dockstar post I found ends like this: "had some problems with a couple packages compiling. Specifically xmlrpc-c [...] That got me past that, but QT just wouldn’t build. I was trying to get Mythtv installed." in the end he switches to debian and debian-multimedia (even though he's a gentoo guy!) just to get mythtv running =(

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[13:59:55]

Saviq:

on another note, mythfrontend hangs for some seconds after start when it tries to enumerate the mountable devices

[14:00:10]

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[14:00:11]

Saviq:

eval-: I got myth on gentoo running (almost) fine, what's your issue?

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[14:01:04]

Saviq:

eval-: you'd definitely need more space during building

[14:01:10]

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[14:01:16]

eval-:

Saviq: I want just mythtv-backend (+apache), to install/run, with all dependencies, in under 100mb of NAND space on my dockstar (which has 128mb RAM)

[14:01:37]

eval-:

Saviq: I'm switching from debian, I haven't used gentoo in years, but I guess I'd have to mount the portage tree on a usb flash during building

[14:01:56]

Saviq:

/var/tmp, too

[14:02:35]

eval-:

Saviq: But this guy, who apparently IS a gentoo guy, gave up and went to debian/debian-multimedia .debs =/ http://blog.ultravstudios.com/james/2010/08/07/seagate-dockstar/

[14:03:01]

Saviq:

eval-: mythtv alone is 66MB here

[14:03:19]

Saviq:

but you probably could try and optimize for size

[14:03:27]

Saviq:

and drop some USEs

[14:03:35]

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[14:03:36]

eval-:

Saviq: I don't know much about MythTV... debian has split it into -common, -frontend, -backend

[14:04:03]

Saviq:

yeah, on gentoo it's all in one

[14:04:09]

eval-:

Saviq: I think I can deal with 66mb, if you're talking just backend+libqt/perl, that would even leave room for apache

[14:04:40]

eval-:

Saviq: Oh. Well I'd need to build just the minimal QT & mythtv-backend pieces so that backend+ALL deps comes in under 100mb

[14:04:42]

Saviq:

eval-: I'm talking 66MB _with_ frontend and stuff

[14:04:44]

eval-:

Saviq: Am I dreaming?

[14:04:50]

Saviq:

no, why

[14:04:58]

Saviq:

you'd definitely need to tweak the ebuilds

[14:05:12]

Saviq:

as there's no frontend separation

[14:05:13]

eval-:

Saviq: B/c when you try to install mythtv-backend from debian-multimedia it needs 250mb of space after deps

[14:05:39]

eval-:

Saviq: Much of it libqt4, perl, dbus

[14:05:41]

Saviq:

of this 66MB 18 megs are themes that you could probably strip

[14:06:35]

eval-:

Saviq: mythtv-backend installed size is 4MB from debian multimedia. it's the dependencies that kill you

[14:06:57]

Saviq:

that's where gentoo might really help

[14:07:08]

Saviq:

strip out USEs to the absolute minimum

[14:07:30]

eval-:

Saviq: But, we still have no real idea what the total size of that absolute minimum will be

[14:07:43]

Saviq:

nope :

[14:08:54]

eval-:

Saviq: Or why that gentoo fellow was unable to compile QT on his armel dockstar, after getting past his xmlrpc-c / binhost problem (http://mark.ossdl.de/2009/10/sheevaplug-kerne . . . oo-binhost/)

[14:10:38]

Saviq:

that I can't help with, but I'll see what the minimum requirements for media-tv/mythtv is and how much storage it uses here

[14:10:43]

eval-:

Saviq: BUT, nonetheless, even if I cannot (or at least take ages to) get the mythtv-backend working on my dockstar, Gentoo is probably a better solution for my dockstar hackery (I have more plans) in general, for precisely the same emerge/USE reasons, espec since em/debian is pissing me off with it's insane dependency lists

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[14:16:51]

Saviq:

eval-: doesn't look that good, qt-core is 25MB, qt-gui is 32MB, qt-webkit is 20MB

[14:17:37]

Saviq:

not sure how much of it are docs, mind you

[14:17:45]

eval-:

Saviq: Yeah, and that's before their dependencies =/ But do I need qt-gui? And I bet those can be stripped...

[14:18:13]

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[14:18:24]

Saviq:

these are all direct, unconditional dependencies on the ebuild I use – but again, that's backend+frontend

[14:18:31]

Saviq:

backend itself probably does not need that

[14:18:46]

Saviq:

although remember you need to be able to run mythtv-setup from time to time

[14:19:30]

Saviq:

you could definitely go without webkit, though

[14:20:53]

eval-:

Saviq: Don't waste your time... the best way is for me to a) toy with Gentoo, get over the dockstar-specific problems and shrink my base install then b) work backwards building mythtv-backend and figuring out each dep and minimum USE flags to build each of those with, etc. and if I need, mount /usr/local, emerge, /var/tmp, etc from usb flash to install the things i'd need only rarely (ie building or running mythtv-setup)

[14:21:23]

eval-:

Saviq: Will gentoo install certain packages to /usr/local if you specify?

[14:21:54]

eval-:

Saviq: I guess I have to be quite careful not to mess up deps of programs I *do* use regularly when /usr/local disappears

[14:22:57]

Saviq:

eval-: I think overriding $PREFIX will be enough

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[14:25:40]

eval-:

Saviq: I'm surprised using the backend on headless low-power / resource boards with a tuner doesn't seem to be so popular

[14:28:19]

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[14:28:22]

stuarta:

you would be surprised

[14:29:46]

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[14:35:42]

eval-:

Saviq, stuarta: ouch: http://bugs.gentoo.org/124040

[14:36:28]

Saviq:

eval-: well, comm flagging, transcoding and even the load on database is high enough that this doesn't really make sense IMO

[14:36:46]

Saviq:

put as much power as possiblie in your basement, I say

[14:37:08]

eval-:

Saviq: why do i have to transcode on the backend?

[14:37:28]

Saviq:

you don't _have_ to, but why would you want to do it on your frontend?

[14:37:36]

eval-:

Saviq: I can cronjob the queue to my desktop to happen on next boot... 1000mb is cheap

[14:37:38]

Saviq:

[...] and use a HW-accelerated frontend like the ION which gets a whole lot of nice frontend

[14:38:05]

eval-:

Saviq: Uh, because my $25, 3–5watt, always-on toy can't handle it? I don't wanna spend more money to do something I can do with dozen lines in a script

[14:38:47]

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[14:38:56]

Saviq:

eval-: I have 7TB storage there I need on at all times, so the CPU power doesn't really matter

[14:39:18]

eval-:

Saviq: Would streaming the raw mpeg2 be too slow, in the cases where my desktop hadn't transcoded it yet?

[14:39:33]

Saviq:

eval-: no, you don't need to transcode at all

[14:39:43]

Saviq:

nor do you need commflagging, TBH

[14:39:55]

eval-:

Saviq: Right, that'd just be to save space for the shows I actually want to keep around

[14:40:10]

Saviq:

it's a matter of what you need and want from your setup

[14:40:13]

eval-:

Saviq: the 1TB laptop drive will probably do fine on the dockstar for my needs

[14:40:49]

eval-:

Saviq: I just want to save some German TV with teletext so i can learn German quicker. Watch the news, dumb shit. When I'm home I can turn on my desktop with all my movies, and it could serve as another backend to a real frontend

[14:40:59]

Saviq:

eval-: make sure it gets decent throughput, USB 2.0 is relatively slow when it comes to 10Mbps+ streams

[14:41:20]

Saviq:

at least from my experience

[14:41:22]

eval-:

Saviq: Hmm yeah and I think some of these DVB-T streams are relatively high quality

[14:42:18]

Saviq:

I'm getting ~1GB/1hr on MPEG2 SD content and ~2.5GB on MPEG4 HD

[14:42:35]

Saviq:

and ~5GB on MPEG2 HD

[14:43:28]

stuarta:

that's pretty standard

[14:44:14]

eval-:

Yeah I think this cheap DVB-T card streams MPEG2 only, so 5gb/hr? ~1.5mb/s? I think most usb drives can do this

[14:44:45]

Saviq:

eval-: yes, as long as you only do one thing at a time

[14:44:50]

stuarta:

yeah, a standard usb drive will work fine for a dvb-t broadcast (i've done it before)

[14:45:31]

Saviq:

but once you're gonna do commflag, record, playback at the same time, it might get clogged up (of course, your mileage may vary)

[14:45:43]

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[14:46:40]

eval-:

Saviq: I mean, honestly, I could do this all today if I was just willing to go buy another usb drive and deal with some boot/access lag on the OS, and drop the dream of squeezing it into NAND (which appears to require gentoo, qt/embedded, a crazy amount of USE tweaking, and to have not been done cleanly enough to produce a HOWTO anywhere despite dozens of forum posts over the last few years)

[14:47:25]

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[14:47:36]

stuarta:

we don't even support building against qt/embedded

[14:47:38]

eval-:

Saviq: playback will just be I/O, not much CPU, and I think it can interleave two 1.5mb/s streams over 802.11g/n fine. maybe seeking will be choppy?

[14:47:41]

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[14:48:33]

eval-:

stuarta: It looks like it's been done, but a long time ago: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . edded;#15939

[14:48:44]

Saviq:

eval-: yeah I wouldn't trust WiFi with anything

[14:49:21]

Saviq:

I can't even get 720p H.264 through a 802.11g bridge...

[14:49:29]

eval-:

Actually what am I talking about, only the playback stream is going over WiFi. But I can always use the gigabit port if I need

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[14:53:22]

eval-:

Saviq: Really? 802.11g can't even get to 1–2mb/s ? it should be able to (theoretically) hit 5+, right? what do you see IRL

[14:53:42]

stuarta:

g should work, a/b will struggle

[14:53:56]

stuarta:

all depends on the bitrate of the stream

[14:55:08]

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[15:02:37]

dustybin:

i dont want to move onto the HD route at the moment but i would like to buy a modern small TV for my bedroom, i only need 24". Would a TV that size make SD quality look better than a CRT what im using at the moment?

[15:09:38]

Saviq:

eval-: yeah, in thory it should work

[15:09:48]

Saviq:

but IRL I'm getting 1MBps at the most

[15:10:12]

Saviq:

dustybin: the other way around, probably

[15:10:29]

Saviq:

as it will show you all the artifacts in SD that your current CRT hides from you

[15:10:47]

dustybin:

aye ok, ill stick with CRT for now then :D

[15:11:00]

Saviq:

ya know, the better the tv, the worse the image...

[15:11:05]

dustybin:

eeeek

[15:11:35]

dustybin:

i thought maybe some TVs have special upscaling technology

[15:12:17]

Saviq:

maybe some blending could help, but you know how it is... the data isn't there, so where do you get it from?

[15:12:25]

dustybin:

aye true

[15:12:35]

Saviq:

you should really take a look yourself at how they perform

[15:12:43]

eval-:

Saviq: I feel like my different video players do quite different jobs of upscaling my vids

[15:13:01]

Saviq:

go to a store somewhere and take a look at some SD content

[15:13:13]

Saviq:

eval-: sure, but still – it simply isn't there

[15:13:18]

stuarta:

i really don't see the point of upscaling. how can you create information in order to upscale? it's still going to look crap

[15:13:29]

Saviq:

yep ^^

[15:14:03]

eval-:

yeah yeah, fine. but no one's going to re-record my whole porn collection in HD/1920p

[15:14:25]

eval-:

and so i really notice the difference between xine/mplayer/vlc/etc in upscaling

[15:15:19]

Saviq:

eeek upscaled c*cks...

[15:15:54]

Saviq:

eval-: it's not that some of them do a better job, it's just that the other do a crappy one

[15:16:14]

Saviq:

and I suppose most of that is probably related to interlace, not upscaling itself

[15:16:15]

eval-:

Saviq: Wouldn't the same be true for LCD TVs, then?

[15:16:35]

eval-:

Saviq: Yeah I think the interlace handling is where they most differ

[15:16:50]

Saviq:

eval-: and I believe you're misinterpreting 'upscaling'

[15:17:26]

Saviq:

mplayer/xine/vlc just scale, upscaling AFAIK is a term related to special filter applied to the scaled image

[15:17:41]

Saviq:

*filter/filters

[15:18:15]

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[15:18:15]

Saviq:

and unless you tell mplayer/xine/vlc to do that, they will simply tell the graphics card to scale the image to fit the screen

[15:19:06]

Saviq:

and I seriously doubt you'd get any difference between mplayer/xine/vlc playing the same progressive stuff over xvide

[15:19:09]

Saviq:

+o

[15:20:38]

eval-:

Saviq: I see big differences, but again, I think it's much due to the deinterlace step. And yes, when I have the right videocard/drivers I can tell which offload the scaling and the results of that (sometimes better, certainly smaller cpu)

[15:21:02]

eval-:

Saviq: People review the deinterlace and upsampling quality of DVD players: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shooto . . . 0&mpeg=0

[15:21:53]

Saviq:

yes, upsampling is what me and stuarta says doesn't really make sense – the data just isn't there, where you gonna get it from?

[15:22:34]

eval-:

Saviq: Your answer to someones question of whether different LCDs may upsample better or worse is: "Upsampling doesn't make sense"

[15:22:37]

Saviq:

it's still going to look crap, so what's the difference... and as pr0n is the topic, I seriously doubt the industry doesn't have enough to offer on a day-to-day basis that they need to rerecord anything ;)

[15:22:51]

Saviq:

eval-: yes, it's still gonna look worse than on a CRT

[15:23:01]

Saviq:

where you simply don't see this kind of detail

[15:23:08]

eval-:

Saviq: The truth of that statement isn't useful to answer the question. The point is that apparently different chips/software do a better or worse job of deinterlace and upsample

[15:23:31]

eval-:

In some cases, all we have is SD. So then, answering the question more helpfully matters

[15:23:50]

Saviq:

and until you dive into HD you will have a worse experience than on a decent CRT, that's all I'm saying

[15:24:19]

eval-:

So the best LCD's upsample is still going to look worse than a CRT?

[15:24:29]

Saviq:

in my experience, yes

[15:24:45]

eval-:

I have no experience with which to answer this, it's possible. But most CRTs look pretty terrible to me

[15:24:46]

Saviq:

because you will get to see all the artifacts of the stream

[15:25:10]

Saviq:

that CRTs hide from you – and you don't expect them to do otherwise

[15:25:39]

Saviq:

eval-: I'm not talking 'image quality' that can really be measured, just people's experience

[15:26:03]

Saviq:

whenever they get a new LCD / Plasma TV it suddenly shows that the image is worse than it was before!

[15:26:12]

Saviq:

and anyway my ultimate answer was to go and see for himself as the experience is subjective enough to get your own opinion

[15:26:57]

eval-:

Saviq: But if I were buying an LCD (hopefully as I'd expect to go HD ASAP), dealing with SD, I'd want one that didn't suck at it. I've seen some projects/monitors that just look like SHIT when some idiot presenter can't make his laptop output match the pixels

[15:27:28]

Saviq:

eval-: of course, nothing I said stated otherwise

[15:27:31]

stuarta:

presenters generally aren't technical and are happy that they get any output

[15:28:23]

Saviq:

eval-: the question was if he'd get a better image on a LCD than CRT – in my experience it's true the other way around

[15:28:40]

Saviq:

when you're getting a flatscreen anyway – that's certainly something you need to look at

[15:29:30]

eval-:

Saviq: OK, right, might as well wait (and get more for your money later) Anyhoo, I should go back to work. You've accomplished one thing for me: I'll give gentoo a shot. Then if I'm really crazy/bored, I'll try to build just the mythtv-backend with qt/embedded and see how small I can get it.

[15:29:39]

Saviq:

and getting the pixels match isn't as easy as it sounds once you have as many 16:10 ratio screens and projectors not so much

[15:30:06]

Saviq:

your laptop's screen might stretch or display 1:1, the projector might do the same...

[15:30:08]

eval-:

Saviq: True... another case where having a device that scales decently might be a plus ;0

[15:30:24]

Saviq:

sure it can be done

[15:30:48]

eval-:

I think you can in some cases crop off the nearest res, but not all cards/drivers support it

[15:31:34]

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[15:31:38]

Saviq:

quite an OT we got into, here...

[15:32:28]

** stuarta gets bored **

[15:32:33]

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[15:33:50]

eval-:

let me ask a blasphemous question

[15:34:03]

eval-:

Should I just use VDR or Tvheadend as a backend? Will my life be easier?

[15:35:49]

Saviq:

eval-: I doubt it you'll get your answer here

[15:36:25]

Saviq:

it probably depends on the featureset you require

[15:40:41]

eval-:

ok. I shall see. cheers!

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[16:59:31]

sphery:

castlec: Do you plan to use libpiano or do it yourself?

[17:01:14]

FinnTux:

where does backend take starting channel for iptv recorder?

[17:01:21]

FinnTux:

when starting to watch live tv

[17:02:32]

wagnerrp:

starting channel is only for when you are using an analog tuner with an external modulator

[17:02:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: you ruined it for us

[17:02:42]

FinnTux:

startchan in table cardinput says 2 yet it starts on channel 25

[17:02:44]

wagnerrp:

so you need to set the local tuner /and/ use an external tuner script

[17:02:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery?

[17:03:08]

sphery:

wagnerrp: iamlindoro and I were hoping to teach him through the school of blood, sweat, and tears that more is not always better

[17:03:12]

sphery:

--enable-valgrind

[17:03:31]

sphery:

granted, you probably saved us about 3 tickets and 4 re-openings of those tickets

[17:03:52]

wagnerrp:

ah, wasnt around for the discussion of that

[17:04:08]

sphery:

the guy obviously said, "well, why wouldn't I want valgrinds in my app," so he decided to flip the switch :)

[17:04:20]

FinnTux:

so how does backend decide what channel to watch initially when live tv starts?

[17:04:39]

FinnTux:

I'm have 7 IPTV "tuners"

[17:05:03]

wagnerrp:

there should be a dropdown that lets you select from the available channels in your source

[17:05:17]

** sphery thinks he's asking which tuner is used **

[17:05:23]

sphery:

answer is, "it's complicated"

[17:05:28]

sphery:

just like my Facebook status

[17:05:31]

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[17:05:33]

sphery:

(joke--I don't use facebook)

[17:05:39]

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[17:05:44]

FinnTux:

no sphery it selects correctly tuner 7

[17:05:55]

sphery:

then it uses the starting channel for that tuner

[17:06:00]

wagnerrp:

you actually have the bandwidth to run 7 simultaneous streams?

[17:06:02]

sphery:

and when you change channel, the starting channel is updated

[17:06:10]

FinnTux:

and looks like initial channel is the one that was watched previously

[17:06:27]

FinnTux:

wagnerrp, SD channels so yes

[17:06:29]

sphery:

castlec: Do you plan to use libpiano or do it yourself?

[17:06:58]

FinnTux:

I have my own IPTV "network". 4 DVB-T cards multicasting 4 muxes

[17:07:35]

castlec:

sphery, I'm planning on using libpiano

[17:07:40]

wagnerrp:

seems an awfully complex way to do things

[17:07:40]

sphery:

cool... just wondering

[17:07:55]

sphery:

I'm thinking about signing up for Pandora's $30/yr subscription

[17:08:07]

FinnTux:

but where is that previous channel stored?

[17:08:10]

sphery:

have played with Pianobar and like it--much better than the Trash Player they give

[17:08:14]

castlec:

i'm no where near knowledgeable enough to clone it myself

[17:08:39]

castlec:

i've been using pianobar for a while myself and like it. i've got it running on my frontend right now :)

[17:08:47]

sphery:

I was also thinking of creating a standalone GTK+ app that uses libpiano and adds LIRC support and a nice GUI (that doesn't require visual control)

[17:08:59]

sphery:

but MythMusic/MythTV integration would be wonderful, too

[17:09:02]

FinnTux:

wagnerrp, not complex at all. with 4 cards I can have backends for the kids, testing backends etc. all have "unlimited" number of tuners

[17:09:22]

castlec:

I want an integrated UI. That's a big feature to me

[17:09:28]

sphery:

yeah

[17:10:24]

castlec:

I'm sure it'll take me a while to get it done but I'm going to do it. I've read through the pianobar source enough to know what's going on. it'd be nice if the ubuntu package worked though. it would make package creation easier

[17:10:31]

sphery:

only reason I was thinking of separate was because I didn't really know how long until the MythMusic rewrite would be in a good state and I don't really know MythUI code, yet--and I didn't really even consider other MythTV users may also want it :)

[17:11:12]

sphery:

castlec: on the bright side, you can easily compile pianobar from source--and don't even have to install it to use it

[17:11:32]

castlec:

I'm going to start seperate anyway. I can offer it up as a seperate plugin if mythmusic isn't stable

[17:11:33]

sphery:

so you don't have to break your package-provided system layout--just run/use libs out of a non-system dir

[17:12:00]

sphery:

castlec: that's cool... If you want it to be accepted into upstream, it will almost definitely have to be integrated into MythMusic

[17:12:03]

castlec:

yeah, i know. before it was available as a package i had compiled locally

[17:12:24]

sphery:

"almost definitely" means everything I know says it /will/, but I'm not the guy who will make the final decision

[17:12:31]

castlec:

:)

[17:12:54]

castlec:

i'd rather have it in one spot if i was in charge. i've never used mythmusic though so i wouldn't care if it was seperate

[17:12:57]

sphery:

but starting separate allows you to create a proof of concept more easily, then use what you learn to integrate it most efficiently/effectively

[17:13:08]

castlec:

i don't have my own music. been using pandora exclusively for a while now

[17:13:13]

sphery:

it's actually a great plan if you don't mind the extra step (and will likely give a better end result)

[17:13:16]

high-rez:

finntux: I assume you do some sort of multirec with that ? E.g. each card is tuned to a single transponder statically, but you're multicasting all of the PIDs on that TS ?

[17:14:19]

sphery:

castlec: yeah, we've had a lot of "fly-by-night" plugin developers submit plugins that they then stopped loving (and maintaining), so after a few years of bitrot, we end up deleting the non-functional version and then users complain that we're removing functionality :(

[17:14:47]

sphery:

so putting it into a "maintained by an active MythTV developer" plugin makes sure it will be kept up (to the best of our abilities, at least :)

[17:15:29]

FinnTux:

high-rez, yes

[17:15:45]

sphery:

castlec: anyway, I think it's a great idea, I might even be convinced to expand into some non-core plugin stuff to help you with it or testing if you like

[17:15:54]

sphery:

so, thanks :)

[17:15:54]

high-rez:

finntux: What software do you use to multiscast the DVB streams ?

[17:16:02]

FinnTux:

high-rez, mumudvb

[17:16:18]

castlec:

Glad that you believe POC is the way to go too. I would love having it put into the myth dev stream. it helps out everyone that way. i think once it's integrated with a major plugin it will be easy to maintain since the pianobar devs are doing all the heavy lifting

[17:16:34]

FinnTux:

naturally streams can be watches with other programs too

[17:16:39]

sphery:

castlec: oh, and btw, the MythMusic dev is Paul Harrison

[17:17:37]

high-rez:

finntux: That's pretty neat, really. And it works 'fine' with myth? Does EIT data work at all ?

[17:17:56]

FinnTux:

high-rez, yes it works.

[17:17:56]

castlec:

great, thanks for all of your input. back to my docs :)

[17:18:25]

sphery:

castlec: agreed... Most of the Pandora interfaces that have used libpiano in the past had the problem that they were written in scripting languages, where they spent more time writing code to interface with the C libs than it would have taken to do the Pandora interface themselves (which is why some are switching to do it themselves). Using libpiano in C or C++, though, is a great way to gain the benefit of the external ...

[17:18:31]

sphery:

... development without any extra work.

[17:18:53]

sphery:

http://kevinmehall.net/p/pithos/ being the most-recent example

[17:19:34]

FinnTux:

high-rez, for EPG I have an extra backend which has 5th dvb-t card. then I just use mysql to transfer data to the other backends

[17:20:02]

FinnTux:

just need to make sure chanids are correctly set

[17:20:11]

castlec:

i'll have to check that out to see how he did cover-art. I assume there will be a facility in mythmusic and i won't need to worry about it but i'd like to know all the same. I was planning on using amazon web services

[17:20:36]

FinnTux:

actually streams have eit data because, for example, vlc shows it

[17:20:55]

FinnTux:

just haven't figured out how to make mythbackend make use of it

[17:22:04]

FinnTux:

and one advantage is that I can run all those backends in virtual machines

[17:22:45]

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[18:06:25]

castlec:

sphery, is it necessary to dl the whole tree to do plugin development? i tried to configure as suggested in the hello world plugin tutorial and got

[18:06:25]

castlec:

ERROR: mythconfig.mak not found at /usr/local/include/mythtv/mythconfig.mak

[18:06:25]

castlec:

Did you make AND install MythTV first?

[18:06:50]

Garnier21:

anyboy now where the db upgrade log is supposed to show up? mythvide has issues with upgrading my db

[18:06:58]

Garnier21:

mythvideo*

[18:08:17]

sphery:

castlec: TTBOMK, you'll need to build and install mythtv before starting to work on plugins. Your distro may, however, provide a -dev package for mythtv that would allow you to just work on your plugin. You'll need to ask someone who knows your distro (or in your distro's channel/forum/lists) to find out.

[18:08:54]

sphery:

Garnier21: it will be in the frontend log of the frontend doing the upgrade for you

[18:09:17]

sphery:

Garnier21: which upgrade are you doing? going from mythtv 0.21 to 0.23 or 0.24 or something?

[18:09:37]

Garnier21:

23 to 24

[18:10:04]

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[18:10:05]

sphery:

that should be a relatively easy upgrade... check the logs to see what's failing

[18:10:17]

Garnier21:

by frontend log you mean "console," right?

[18:10:38]

Garnier21:

cause where is the frontend log kept?

[18:10:39]

castlec:

was just looking at dpkg -l output to learn that :) i'll ping the mythbuntu channel if i don't find anything. otherwise, i'll have to set up a VM as I don't want a source installed instance on my backend

[18:10:45]

sphery:

well, log output of the frontend, which may be to stdout/stderr or to a log file, depending on how you started it

[18:11:54]

sphery:

castlec: yeah, having a separate dev system (not connected to your real/production database) is always nice

[18:12:07]

sphery:

great way to prevent accidental breakage of recordings

[18:12:55]

sphery:

though with frontend plugin development, a careful approach can work even against the production system/db

[18:13:03]

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[18:13:38]

castlec:

careful does not lend itself well to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. accidents happen. better to isolate

[18:14:14]

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[18:16:15]

wagnerrp:

careful meaning... just do a nightly database backup

[18:16:36]

wagnerrp:

youve got to try pretty hard to delete unrelated files

[18:17:41]

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[18:19:24]

Garnier21:

sphery: I dont know what happened, but there were duplicate columns in some tables, hence the upgrade barfed

[18:20:03]

Garnier21:

I mean columns that already existed in some tables and the upgrade tried to add them again

[18:20:45]

Garnier21:

really should have 'if not exist' checking in the code

[18:21:39]

Garnier21:

prior to add operation in db

[18:27:47]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: doing so would imply the user had done tinkering around in the database so as to make their database no longer fit the schema

[18:28:10]

Garnier21:

I assure you nothing of the sort happened

[18:28:42]

wagnerrp:

the only other possibility is you had a failed update, that resulted in your database being in an unknown state

[18:28:47]

sphery:

Garnier21: no, if not exist is the "If you already have a column that's using the same name, but is defined with the wrong type or size, ignore the error because it doesn't matter--we'll somehow stuff a VARCHAR(255) into a TINYINT later" approach

[18:29:00]

sphery:

that's broken

[18:29:01]

wagnerrp:

at which point you are supposed to revert your database to the backup made before the update

[18:29:14]

sphery:

in fact, I hope to convince others to let me remove the IF NOT EXIST from all the existing code

[18:29:39]

Garnier21:

you can check the types too

[18:30:14]

sphery:

and, yeah, it can't happen with our code, so it requires external forces--whether it's direct DB editing or users applying patches that mess with the DB before those patches are incorporated into MythTV or failed DB updates

[18:30:20]

Garnier21:

there is nothing that prevents that from being checked programmatically

[18:30:29]

sphery:

no, nothing that prevents it

[18:30:35]

Garnier21:

It can't happen with our code?

[18:30:43]

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[18:30:50]

Garnier21:

I'm reporting it just happened

[18:30:53]

sphery:

but why plan for something that our code can't cause

[18:31:00]

sphery:

no, something else caused a failure

[18:31:05]

sphery:

likely the thing I plan to fix

[18:31:24]

sphery:

i.e. multiple systems updating the plugin schema at once

[18:31:25]

Garnier21:

and you acknowledeged it's not outside the realm of possibilities (life a failed update)

[18:31:29]

Garnier21:

like*

[18:31:37]

sphery:

well, I've never actually seen it happen

[18:31:45]

sphery:

only had users say, "I didn't do anything and it happened"

[18:31:51]

sphery:

none have actually described the cause or the root problem

[18:32:04]

sphery:

our code doesn't create columns before it creates those columns

[18:32:10]

Garnier21:

oh, so you've never seen it happen=="it CAN'T happen w/ our code?"

[18:32:12]

sphery:

i.e. we only create the column once, so

[18:32:20]

sphery:

right, our code doesn't do that

[18:32:23]

sphery:

something else did

[18:32:36]

sphery:

like users starting up mythfrontend, seeing it hang

[18:32:47]

sphery:

then hitting Ctrl-C thinking it's broken

[18:32:48]

Garnier21:

I'm telling you nobody mucked with the db

[18:32:52]

sphery:

which breaks the DB update

[18:33:11]

Garnier21:

and nobody hit ctrl-c

[18:33:17]

sphery:

then users restart the frontend, see the dup column errors (because the DB is in a known, broken state from killing an in-progress update)

[18:33:22]

sphery:

and expecting it to just work

[18:33:35]

sphery:

or the start scripts starting the program

[18:33:42]

sphery:

then seeing it "hang" and killing it

[18:33:44]

sphery:

or whatever

[18:33:44]

Garnier21:

look, you guys can spout whatever theories you'd like

[18:33:50]

sphery:

but something else is causing it

[18:33:53]

sphery:

look at our code

[18:34:08]

Garnier21:

but your theories don't dovetail with reality

[18:34:11]

sphery:

since our code only creates tables/columns once

[18:34:24]

Garnier21:

sigh

[18:34:28]

sphery:

yes, well, I like my world better--even if it's not reality :)

[18:34:34]

Garnier21:

'once'

[18:34:41]

sphery:

My approach is to never program a workaround for a symptom of a problem

[18:34:46]

sphery:

Instead, I fix the root problem.

[18:34:47]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: as mentioned, the only way the code could cause the database to be out of schema is a failed update

[18:34:51]

sphery:

however, none have identified it

[18:35:01]

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[18:35:01]

wagnerrp:

at which point the database is in an unknown state, and should be dropped and reverted to the backup

[18:35:07]

sphery:

and once you have such a failed update, you shouldn't trust the db

[18:35:11]

sphery:

should go back to the backup

[18:35:15]

sphery:

exactly like wagnerrp said

[18:35:15]

Garnier21:

sigh...

[18:35:31]

sphery:

give me the pre-upgrade backup that shows a 0.23-fixes version schema

[18:35:41]

Garnier21:

then programmatically say update failed, would you like to revert?

[18:35:44]

sphery:

and causes a reproducible failure on upgrade

[18:35:49]

sphery:

and I'll fix the problem

[18:36:09]

Garnier21:

there's not even an attempt to say "oh, you should revert"

[18:36:12]

sphery:

well, restoring the backup requires a lot of coordination that can't happen with our current design

[18:36:21]

Garnier21:

lol

[18:36:30]

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[18:36:37]

wagnerrp:

an issue that is planned to be fixed by embedding the database

[18:36:40]

sphery:

i.e. shutting down all frontends and backends, dropping the DB, restoring the backup, starting up in the proper order to upgrade the other parts

[18:36:46]

Garnier21:

sphery: you're assuming I haven't read the code

[18:36:53]

Garnier21:

I'm reading it right now

[18:37:05]

sphery:

and, yeah, it's something we will be able to fix after modifying our DB access

[18:37:41]

sphery:

Garnier21: only other thing I can say is that patches command a lot more accepting responses than demands to fix the code :)

[18:37:54]

Garnier21:

there is no need to path

[18:37:57]

sphery:

ideas are easy... coding is hard

[18:38:00]

Garnier21:

patch*

[18:38:29]

Garnier21:

you crate an alternate db instance

[18:38:32]

sphery:

the only one that arguably doesn't require a patch is changing the wording in the log file upon a failed update

[18:38:44]

sphery:

but anything else requires real code changes

[18:38:56]

Garnier21:

restore backup to 'old_mythconverg'

[18:38:58]

sphery:

and, in fact, requires design changes

[18:39:01]

Garnier21:

brute force

[18:39:23]

sphery:

still, until the actual cause of the failure is known...

[18:39:24]

Garnier21:

and then rename dbs

[18:39:35]

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[18:39:49]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: cant be done without root rights to the database

[18:40:00]

wagnerrp:

and the assumption is you havent given mythtv the root credentials

[18:40:21]

Garnier21:

sigh

[18:40:23]

sphery:

and even if you do alternate table names within the current schema, it's not worth the effort with our current desing

[18:40:28]

sphery:

the time is better spent improving the design

[18:40:32]

Garnier21:

then ask the user for credentials

[18:40:47]

sphery:

so that we have the proper approach that prevents any client from breaking the DB schema

[18:41:01]

Garnier21:

if user doesn't supply, then you can blame the user

[18:41:07]

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[18:41:21]

sphery:

anyway, as wagnerrp said, the plan for the embedded DB will fix almost all the problems that could possibly occur that could cause failed DB updates in a correct schema

[18:41:28]

Garnier21:

you don't get to say 'our code can't possibly do that' before then

[18:42:07]

sphery:

well, you don't get to say our code did it until you point to the path that causes us to run the line of code that creates the table columns 2 times

[18:42:10]

sphery:

:)

[18:42:36]

Garnier21:

it's easy

[18:42:52]

Garnier21:

I know exactly what might have gone down

[18:42:53]

sphery:

and I'm pretty sure it will involve, "and here we have a failure, then the user restarts the frontend using the broken schema"

[18:43:07]

sphery:

well, you haven't shown us the problem in our code3

[18:43:12]

Garnier21:

myth frontend 1 updates db, and fails

[18:43:21]

sphery:

what caused that failure?

[18:43:43]

Garnier21:

myth frontend 2 attempts to upgrade db again

[18:43:50]

sphery:

yes, that would cause it

[18:44:00]

sphery:

but only because myth frontend 2 is upgrading a broken schema

[18:44:02]

Garnier21:

before mythfe1 has had a chance to fix

[18:44:18]

sphery:

we still haven't fixed the problem that caused the first failure

[18:44:48]

Garnier21:

look, in fact it's even simpler then that

[18:45:09]

Garnier21:

what the first thing a person is likely to do when something fails?

[18:45:16]

Garnier21:

'try again'

[18:45:33]

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[18:45:42]

Garnier21:

since you hand informed him of 'revert' he's gonna do it

[18:45:51]

Garnier21:

haven't*

[18:46:29]

sphery:

and so, the one fix you've suggested that I would consider is adding a statement suggesting that the user revert to the back up

[18:46:36]

Garnier21:

that's right

[18:46:42]

Garnier21:

simple first step

[18:46:44]

sphery:

although I'd argue that the "in case of problems, a backup has been saved to ..." kind of did that

[18:46:47]

Garnier21:

proceed no further

[18:47:07]

Garnier21:

no, it just informs users backup has been saved

[18:47:09]

sphery:

i.e. the 2nd of the 2 dialogs that you said "Upgrade" to

[18:47:14]

Garnier21:

false sense of security

[18:48:02]

sphery:

ok, point taken, they may think we're telling you things about what we're doing instead of telling you things you might need to know

[18:48:16]

sphery:

so the wording can likely be improved

[18:48:52]

sphery:

that part--the ui for teh schema wizard--is actually being rewritten now, so it will likely improve immensely for 0.25

[18:49:13]

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[18:49:13]

Garnier21:

well whatever

[18:49:16]

sphery:

and I'll keep your comments in mind as the rewrite progresses and see if we can get it improved

[18:49:28]

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[18:49:54]

Garnier21:

I personally think too much time is being spent on eye candy and not enough on error checking

[18:50:22]

Garnier21:

focus on the basics first

[18:50:28]

wagnerrp:

one of the big tasks during the settings rewrite for 0.25 is sanity checking on the setup

[18:50:34]

Garnier21:

not on the sex.

[18:50:50]

** kormoc blinks **

[18:51:07]

Garnier21:

eye cany==sex

[18:51:07]

wagnerrp:

one of the big reasons for moving to an embedded database is the ability to manage it completely for error handling

[18:51:16]

Garnier21:

candy*

[18:53:01]

Garnier21:

the sql code is not safe

[18:53:41]

kormoc:

it certainly is if it's vanilla

[18:54:12]

Garnier21:

vanilla? shows just how much you know about sql

[18:54:18]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:54:34]

kormoc:

Gee, thanks for the insult, I'll be sure to take your point of view into consideration

[18:54:52]

kormoc:

insults are the best way to get people to listen to your point of view after all

[18:55:00]

sphery:

kormoc: while you're looking for a new day job, obviously

[18:55:06]

kormoc:

Indeed

[18:55:41]

Garnier21:

kormoc: you insulted yourself

[18:55:42]

kormoc:

Garnier21, if you honestly believe that sql being run one at a time in order deviate from each other randomly, you're more delusional then most

[18:56:16]

Garnier21:

vanilla doesn't even make sense when it comes to sql

[18:56:21]

kormoc:

Sure it does

[18:56:28]

kormoc:

Vanilla means untouched by the user

[18:56:38]

sphery:

I like vanilla malteds

[18:56:41]

Garnier21:

oh sigh

[18:56:45]

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[18:56:47]

kormoc:

We manage is and expect to be authoritative in all changes

[18:57:01]

Garnier21:

I was talking about sql 'code'

[18:57:07]

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[18:57:36]

Garnier21:

and nobody 'mucked' with the db, other than normal myth upgrades

[18:58:10]

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[18:58:12]

kormoc:

then the update wouldn't have failed in the first place, as it's worked for *everyone* else

[18:58:30]

Garnier21:

we just went through this argument

[18:58:44]

Garnier21:

I suggest you scroll back

[18:59:04]

Garnier21:

'It can't happen in our code'

[18:59:31]

kormoc:

I'd suggest that you didn't finish it as all you guys ended on was a fix to the re-runing the schema and not the original failure

[19:00:26]

Garnier21:

simple. If I knew what the original failure was I'd tell you

[19:00:34]

sphery:

exactly, I need to know the original problem that needs fixing (what caused the first failure) since I don't care to fix the symptom of the problem (our schema update won't update a broken schema)

[19:00:48]

kormoc:

Garnier21, and yet you honestly think restoring the database to the old style and re-trying will give you a different result?

[19:00:52]

sphery:

IMHO, it's actually a good thing that our schema update won't update a broken schema

[19:00:58]

kormoc:

Exactly

[19:01:10]

sphery:

since if there's a broken schema, the user /should/ find out about it so they can fix the problme

[19:01:12]

Garnier21:

kormoc: what old style you referring to?

[19:01:13]

kormoc:

We don't want to dump data that the end user may want

[19:01:26]

kormoc:

Garnier21, before the failed update attempted to run

[19:01:39]

Garnier21:

look, this isn't the first time the db code has borked badly

[19:01:52]

sphery:

kormoc: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result... sounds like a good plan to me

[19:01:53]

** kormoc thinks Garnier21's database has some issues then **

[19:02:06]

kormoc:

sphery, Aye, too bad there's no famous quote about that

[19:02:16]

sphery:

no joke... someone should make one

[19:02:21]

Garnier21:

sphery, kormoc, and wagnerrp all think myth coders are infallible

[19:02:34]

kormoc:

Garnier21, not at all, look at how many bugs I have!

[19:02:37]

stuartm:

no they don't, you're being ridiculous

[19:02:49]

Garnier21:

stuartm: scroll back

[19:02:52]

kormoc:

Garnier21, you're just making a huge issue about something *very* specific to you

[19:03:06]

kormoc:

Garnier21, and haven't even attempted to fix the root cause

[19:03:07]

Garnier21:

'our code can't do that'

[19:03:18]

sphery:

without having the information (through no fault of your own) that would allow us to prevent that first problem

[19:03:40]

sphery:

it's the first problem we seek

[19:03:42]

sphery:

the alpha problem

[19:03:45]

sphery:

the big daddy

[19:03:49]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: that is correct, the only place that you can alter the schema is in the database update code

[19:03:52]

kormoc:

Garnier21, we're not going to assume otherwise until we have information otherwise on a code path that thousands have run successfully

[19:04:11]

Garnier21:

stuartm: I'm reading through the sql code in myth right now as we speak

[19:04:11]

wagnerrp:

and the only time that gets run is when youre updating the database, which only runs once to update to a new schema version

[19:04:16]

sphery:

we are true hunters of bugs... we just happen to know that when you smash a big spider, a million other spiders will come out of it

[19:04:27]

stuartm:

Garnier21: which distro are you using and are you using packages?

[19:04:31]

Garnier21:

no safety checks of any kind

[19:04:33]

sphery:

until we can capture that first spider, we'll expect to see little spiders

[19:04:37]

Garnier21:

lol

[19:04:42]

kormoc:

(and for being such a SQL expert, it's SQL statements, not SQL code)

[19:04:45]

Garnier21:

it's not a distro issue

[19:04:53]

Garnier21:

I'm reading trough the source

[19:05:06]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: the only viable 'solution' to your option would be to set the schema version to some extremely high number like 9999

[19:05:08]

Garnier21:

through*

[19:05:12]

wagnerrp:

to denote that an update had failed

[19:05:14]

stuartm:

Garnier21: just answer the question pelase

[19:05:25]

wagnerrp:

and that the backend/frontend should refuse to do anything before the issue has been resolved

[19:05:48]

Garnier21:

stuartm: mandriva + plf

[19:05:52]

stuartm:

Garnier21: because when I see bugs that no-one else is able to reproduce, especially database screw ups, my first thought is that their packager has backported something they shouldn't have

[19:06:08]

FinnTux:

so where does backend store last tuned channel for IPTV recorder?

[19:06:12]

sphery:

Garnier21: another approach that can cause the problem you're seeing is a broken DB restore... I.e. your distro provides you a DB schema for 0.24, you restore a 0.23-backup (you created without our backup script or using a very old backup script) on top of the existing DB (which you can only do with a command line approach that doesn't use our restore script) and so it rams data into already upgraded tables--and corrupts the ...

[19:06:13]

stuartm:

where's Colin Gutherie when you need him?

[19:06:18]

sphery:

... data in the process

[19:06:19]

stuartm:

!seen coling

[19:06:19]

MythLogBot:

coling was last seen 6 days 7 hours 50 minutes 56 seconds ago

[19:06:34]

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[19:06:38]

Garnier21:

stuartm: colin probably went over to mageia

[19:06:41]

Garnier21:

:)

[19:07:15]

sphery:

Garnier21: we've seen users do exactly that, and I modified the backup script to make it so that problem won't occur--but, unfortunately, I can't force users to use our backup/restore scripts (as even before the backup script change, the restore script would have prevented that problem)

[19:08:24]

Garnier21:

look, this isn't the first time the issue of busted code in db upgrades/reversions has come up

[19:08:24]

sphery:

and, yeah, like stuartm said, backported patches that change the DB schema can also break things since that would cause the updates to be applied multiple times if it's out of sync with the "real" schema update history

[19:08:34]

FinnTux:

cos now all tuners tries to show channel 25 which doesn't broadcast anything

[19:09:02]

sphery:

FinnTux: now you have to go into mythtv-setup and change the Channel to start on for all your capture cards

[19:09:11]

sphery:

on all your different mythtv systems

[19:09:13]

FinnTux:

and tuning naturally fails and there is not enough time to switch to another channel

[19:09:14]

Garnier21:

you're free to ask colin if he backeported, but I just unpacked the src.rpm

[19:09:23]

Garnier21:

looks like there is no backport

[19:09:33]

sphery:

was there a db restore?

[19:09:33]

FinnTux:

sphery, doesn't work. all tuners are set to start on channel 2

[19:10:04]

sphery:

FinnTux: hmmm... there may be an issue with the iptv code, then

[19:10:19]

sphery:

FinnTux: fwiw, I know that starting channel works properly if you just let mythtv use the dvb devices directly...

[19:10:30]

FinnTux:

sphery, startchan=2 in cardinput table

[19:11:10]

FinnTux:

sphery, sure. in 0.23 it always started on channel 1 which is ok

[19:11:30]

sphery:

FinnTux: did you actually go into mythtv-setup and change it?

[19:11:36]

FinnTux:

yes

[19:11:46]

sphery:

direct DB editing isn't guaranteed to do what the user expects

[19:12:08]

FinnTux:

not for all tuners but the one that is used (no 7)

[19:12:22]

FinnTux:

where does it pick the last used then?

[19:12:29]

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[19:12:33]

stuartm:

direct db editing is one of they ways we end up with users unable to run official schema upgrades

[19:12:50]

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[19:16:32]

sphery:

FinnTux: last-used which?

[19:16:36]

sphery:

channel/tuner/...

[19:16:47]

FinnTux:

channel on that specific tuner

[19:16:56]

sphery:

it's the last-tuned channel

[19:17:13]

sphery:

(whether tuned in live tv or normal recordings)

[19:17:16]

dustybin:

peepshow – new series starts tonight :D

[19:17:25]

FinnTux:

it doesn't pick the one in cardinput -> startchan

[19:18:24]

sphery:

it updates all teh right info in the db when a new channel is tuned

[19:18:32]

sphery:

what info is relevant for iptv, I can't tell you

[19:20:58]

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[19:21:05]

FinnTux:

ok

[19:21:44]

FinnTux:

so the question still remains. where is the last tuned channel stores for IPTV?

[19:21:52]

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[19:27:50]

FinnTux:

how about adding a popup window that asks the user what to do after unsuccesful channel tuning?

[19:28:19]

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[19:28:45]

FinnTux:

hmm, actually the tuning is succesful (TLAM) but creating the recording file fails

[19:29:07]

FinnTux:

perhaps because there is no data in the stream...

[19:32:23]

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[19:32:52]

FinnTux:

2010-11–26 21:32:16.039 ChannelBase(7): Looking for startchannel '25' on input 'MPEG2TS'

[19:32:52]

FinnTux:

2010-11–26 21:32:16.045 ChannelBase(7): Found startchannel '25' on input 'MPEG2TS'

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[19:45:31]

FinnTux:

looks like it is in the settings table. value=DefaultChanid and data=<chanid of the channel>

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[19:46:25]

FinnTux:

and it is updated after succesful channel change

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momelod:

greetings channel

[20:29:03]

momelod:

in mythvdeo, using file browsing mode and gallery view. some of my folders dont show the associated folder.jpg images

[20:29:26]

momelod:

how can i add images and fanart to folders

[20:29:56]

momelod:

using this method doesn't seem to work: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo#Folder_Images

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[20:32:14]

wagnerrp:

why are you using file browsing mode?

[20:32:22]

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[20:34:26]

momelod:

wagnerrp, because i have my videos organized in folders.

[20:34:44]

wagnerrp:

so?

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[20:35:20]

momelod:

good point

[20:35:26]

wagnerrp:

browse mode means that mythvideo builds a list off your file system each time it opens

[20:35:28]

momelod:

fixed :)

[20:35:37]

wagnerrp:

that is completely different from the sort modes

[20:37:40]

momelod:

explains why i couldn't use the 'browse by' feature too

[20:38:21]

momelod:

i am getting the cover art now, but hit-and-miss with the fanart. i see the file fanart.jpg in each folder but only some of them show up?

[20:38:49]

wagnerrp:

only reason i can think of for it not using the folder.jpg is file permissions

[20:40:03]

momelod:

owned my mythtv:mythtv rw-r--r--

[20:40:30]

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[20:46:30]

iamlindoro:

There is no such thing as using a fanart.jpg

[20:46:45]

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[20:46:52]

iamlindoro:

The only image loaded from the filesystem is folder.jpg, which replaces coverart

[20:47:18]

momelod:

okay. so how does one add fanart to a folder?

[20:47:43]

iamlindoro:

You don't. If a child node in the folder has fanart, then the first valid one found will be displayed when you highlight the folder.

[20:48:36]

momelod:

iamlindoro, i have folder tree like: television/my.show/season.1/myshow.s01e01.avi

[20:48:54]

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[20:48:55]

momelod:

i want television to have fanart

[20:49:06]

iamlindoro:

It won't/can't

[20:49:16]

iamlindoro:

That would require a triple descent, which MythVideo will not do

[20:49:42]

momelod:

i see, so my problem is that i have the extra television folder?

[20:49:50]

iamlindoro:

my.show can have fanart, assuming the *metadata* title of "myshwo.s01e01.avi" is EXACTLY the same as my.show

[20:50:07]

iamlindoro:

The wiki node you linked to above explains it, you need to read more carefully

[20:50:38]

momelod:

i misunderstood the wiki, i thought it ment it would decend 2 dirs down form the current working directory

[20:50:46]

iamlindoro:

Which it does

[20:50:56]

iamlindoro:

Show/Season 1/show.avi is a double descent

[20:51:18]

iamlindoro:

it will descend twice to fine a valid file node

[20:51:22]

momelod:

but because i have television first im breaking that requirement?

[20:51:51]

iamlindoro:

No, you can enter television and each show folder will have fanart, assuming your metadata and folders match

[20:51:56]

iamlindoro:

but television itself will not have fanart

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[20:52:26]

iamlindoro:

because it would require descending three times to find a valid file node

[20:52:31]

momelod:

okay so television itself cant have fanart. got it

[20:52:42]

iamlindoro:

correct, not under those circumstances

[20:53:16]

momelod:

so how to others orginize their files on the filesystem so that they can logically seperate content?

[20:53:23]

momelod:

is there a recommended way?

[20:53:27]

iamlindoro:

What you are doing is fine

[20:53:38]

iamlindoro:

ShowName/Season #/Episodes

[20:53:43]

iamlindoro:

or just ShowName/Episodes

[20:53:43]

wagnerrp:

heh... i honestly didnt even notice you were looking for the wrong file

[20:53:53]

wagnerrp:

you said fanart.jpg and i read folder.jpg

[20:56:48]

momelod:

hey wagnerrp. i was in here before asking about hd playback. You pointed out i would be all set with vdpau capable video card. Ordered one of these today: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107072

[20:57:03]

momelod:

its on sale *black friday*

[20:57:32]

momelod:

just wanted to say thanks for pointing me in that direction.

[20:57:47]

momelod:

i was ready to rebuild my frontend and this actually works out much cheaper

[20:58:34]

high-rez:

momelod: They had IONs for $145 and $170

[20:58:48]

high-rez:

Thats real nice for an ION2 though

[20:59:16]

wagnerrp:

dont forget to buy memory... and if you need one, a boot drive

[20:59:19]

momelod:

i grabbed two actually :)

[20:59:31]

momelod:

i was gunna try to pxe boot it

[20:59:44]

momelod:

i figure w/ 4gb of ram it wont even need a hdd

[21:00:16]

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[21:01:11]

momelod:

has anyone successfully run the fe on diskless client?

[21:01:26]

Gibby_2:

momelod: yes

[21:01:36]

Gibby_2:

momelod: what OS?

[21:01:42]

momelod:

Gibby_2, ubuntu

[21:02:04]

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[21:02:04]

momelod:

Gibby_2, hows the hd playback over 100/mb LAN?

[21:02:13]

momelod:

any issues?

[21:02:14]

Gibby_2:

momelod: http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/network-boot-mythbuntu-diskless

[21:02:22]

Gibby_2:

no issues, but I use a gigabit network

[21:02:28]

GreyFoxx:

mome: You could easily do several streams over 100mb

[21:02:29]

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[21:02:42]

momelod:

awesome. cant wait for it to arrive

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high-rez:

Ooh that includes remote eh ?

[21:04:58]

momelod:

yeah

[21:05:12]

momelod:

and free shipping!

[21:05:14]

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[21:05:24]

momelod:

today only tho i believe

[21:05:38]

high-rez:

Any idea if its an MCE remote or emulates key presses?

[21:05:51]

high-rez:

Looks like its emulates a mouse/kb

[21:05:59]

Gibby_2:

momelod: i am using diskless with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173004

[21:06:00]

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[21:06:42]

stuartm:

momelod: you shouldn't have any problems with HD over a 100Mbit wired lan

[21:06:56]

stuartm:

oh, GreyFoxx said that already

[21:07:06]

stuartm:

GreyFoxx: long time no see

[21:07:26]

high-rez:

Does ION2 have a video render performance advantage? E.g. capable of better deinterlacing modes?

[21:07:42]

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[21:08:49]

Gibby_2:

I am running mine on VDPAU High with only 1 issue where some movies go digitized, but it does that no matter what profile i try

[21:09:28]

Garnier21:

Gibby_2: what's your source mateial?

[21:09:45]

Garnier21:

movies meaning dvd?

[21:10:21]

Gibby_2:

dvd/blu-ray rips

[21:10:56]

Gibby_2:

when it does it, i get nothing in the frontend logs either... thought i would have saw something, so it leads me to believe it is an issue outside of myth

[21:11:10]

iamlindoro:

rips + transcodes, maybe

[21:11:18]

Garnier21:

playback the rips using some other sw

[21:11:33]

Garnier21:

mplayer, xine, whateer

[21:11:51]

Garnier21:

if the same thing happens then you know what's wrong :)

[21:12:10]

Garnier21:

of course under vdpau

[21:12:31]

Gibby_2:

Garnier21, i will try that after the football games are over :)

[21:12:45]

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[21:13:08]

Garnier21:

Gibby_2: what's street price for revo?

[21:13:54]

Gibby_2:

Garnier21, IDK, I don't use a revo...

[21:14:21]

Garnier21:

I just figure you'd looked into it since you bout a zotac ion

[21:14:26]

GreyFoxx:

stauart: Yeah I've been busy and then on vacation :)

[21:14:45]

GreyFoxx:

just starting to catch up with everything now :)

[21:15:27]

Gibby_2:

aren't they around $100?

[21:15:27]

GreyFoxx:

yay and it's time to pack up and go home

[21:16:05]

Garnier21:

Gibby_2: I dont think revo street price is near $100

[21:17:02]

Garnier21:

Gibby_2: probably almost 2x more than that, I'd think

[21:17:05]

Gibby_2:

i was thinking of the roku... looks like the revo is more than the zotac

[21:17:55]

Garnier21:

Gibby_2: what distro you using on the nfs server side?

[21:18:09]

Gibby_2:

it is ubuntu 10.04

[21:18:53]

** Garnier21 is using seagate dockstar as myth nfsroot server **

[21:19:07]

Garnier21:

best $20 I ever spent

[21:20:06]

Garnier21:

cheaper than a prostitute and more fun!

[21:20:10]

Gibby_2:

rofl

[21:20:18]

wagnerrp:

why not just stick the hard drive in the backend, and not nfsboot?

[21:21:04]

Garnier21:

cause the backe end can run diskless too and go up and down at will

[21:21:21]

wagnerrp:

Gibby_2: the different VDPAU profiles only change the deinterlacing

[21:21:43]

wagnerrp:

considering DVDs and Blurays are almost invariably progressive, changing between them will make no difference

[21:22:00]

Garnier21:

cut the power comsumption to bare minimum

[21:22:29]

wagnerrp:

any artifacts you see from a raw copy of those videos in VDPAU playback is possibly due to limitations in the hardware decoder in the GPU

[21:22:42]

wagnerrp:

the video is formatted in a manner the GPU cannot handle

[21:22:51]

Gibby_2:

wagnerrp: hmmm ok, but some work fine, could it be the rip profile i use?

[21:22:54]

wagnerrp:

Garnier21: but your frontends cant run without the backend anyway

[21:23:09]

Gibby_2:

wagnerrp: but it only does it like for a half sec every so often

[21:23:14]

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[21:23:33]

wagnerrp:

when you ripped these, did you transcode them?

[21:23:41]

Garnier21:

who needs myth backend when you have DLNA?

[21:24:10]

Garnier21:

you only need myth backend for records

[21:24:43]

wagnerrp:

sure, if you dont care for metadata, and are only using UPNP/DLNA clients

[21:25:26]

Gibby_2:

wagnerrp: i think so, i make them in the mkv files

[21:25:53]

wagnerrp:

meaning you likely transcoded them to h264 while you were at it?

[21:26:11]

wagnerrp:

you may have used options which dont play well with VDPAU

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[21:26:49]

wagnerrp:

or if you set the level to unlimited, the encoder may have made some sections too high bitrate, although if you exceed the 4.1 capability of VDPAU, you did something wrong

[21:27:06]

wagnerrp:

or you could just have some corrupt sections of video

[21:27:17]

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[21:28:08]

Gibby_2:

wagnerrp, awesome thanks, i will look at that next time i rip something

[21:28:35]

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Garnier21:

Steve_Goodey needs to stop rebooting his machine

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[21:31:29]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why so many people have problems frying turkeys

[21:31:38]

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[21:31:52]

wagnerrp:

its grease, grease burns

[21:32:02]

Garnier21:

that's cause they haven't watched alton brown

[21:32:14]

wagnerrp:

all you have to do is not put so much grease in such that when you add the turkey into the pot, it flows over the sides

[21:32:17]

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[21:33:13]

Garnier21:

yo Steve_Goodey disconnect your network man

[21:33:41]

Garnier21:

Steve_Goodey: you're spamming us to death

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SteveGoodey:

Aarhh very sorry, i'll shut up.

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[21:37:44]

Garnier21:

just don't the the obsession with turkey

[21:38:24]

Garnier21:

high density pprotein for cheap that happens to put you to sleep

[21:39:40]

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[21:40:40]

Beirdo:

I see someone didn't learn the history of Thanksgiving

[21:41:12]

Beirdo:

the "obsession with turkey" is due to the historical connection, duh!

[21:41:44]

Garnier21:

maybe the indians were putting the white man to sleep for good reason

[21:42:01]

** wagnerrp prefer's the Addam's family take on history **

[21:42:12]

Beirdo:

maybe turkeys were what were around to eat

[21:42:25]

Garnier21:

just think they could have nipped the problem in the bud

[21:42:38]

Beirdo:

there's no problem :)

[21:42:51]

Beirdo:

turkey *in moderation* is just fine

[21:43:00]

Beirdo:

gorging ourselves is the issue

[21:43:09]

kormoc:

no it's not!

[21:43:41]

wagnerrp:

s/issue/goal/

[21:43:52]

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[21:43:52]

Garnier21:

no, cooking a huge bird like a turkey is the issue

[21:43:54]

Beirdo:

heheeh

[21:44:16]

Beirdo:

go roast an ostrich if you think a turkey is huge

[21:44:19]

kormoc:

you canadians won't understand!

[21:44:21]

Garnier21:

leads to massive overconsumption

[21:44:22]

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[21:44:43]

Beirdo:

kormoc: we had Thanksgiving a month ago, yes we do :)

[21:44:45]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:44:48]

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[21:45:27]

Garnier21:

There aren't any ostriches in north america when the puritans landed

[21:45:40]

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[21:45:58]

Beirdo:

how do you know, were you there?

[21:46:03]

kormoc:

nah, it's not the same thing! You don't have indians and pilgrims and all that!

[21:46:13]

Beirdo:

uhhh

[21:46:26]

Garnier21:

Beirdo: no fossil evidence

[21:46:28]

Beirdo:

maybe not pilgrims, but we sure have Indians

[21:47:08]

kormoc:

not feasting together before starving to death during a brutal new england winter

[21:47:11]

Beirdo:

heck, my high school was about 1/3 Indians

[21:47:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:47:27]

NightMonkey:

God am I happy that the Natives didn't plop a pile of mealworms on the table instead of a turkey.

[21:47:43]

NightMonkey:

"Can't wait for Mealworm Day!"

[21:47:46]

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[21:48:01]

Beirdo:

pretty sure the natives in New Brunswick/Nova Scotia had the same crappy winter :)

[21:48:06]

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[21:48:20]

Beirdo:

just fewer whiteys to share it with at the time

[21:49:20]

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[21:50:29]

momelod:

is jamu still used in 0.24?

[21:50:51]

Beirdo:

only if you choose to use it :)

[21:50:54]

momelod:

for updated metadata, or is there another preferred way?

[21:51:05]

[R]:

mythvideo does all the metadata you need

[21:51:25]

Beirdo:

not to grab matching fan art for recordings, it doesn't

[21:51:37]

momelod:

[R], how to i force an update?

[21:51:51]

momelod:

seem to be missing some metadata

[21:51:52]

[R]:

excetp for recrodings

[21:52:01]

[R]:

momelod: hit m and do update

[21:52:11]

wagnerrp:

in 0.24, JAMU is only needed to do recording metadata

[21:52:18]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo do will batch updates internally

[21:52:46]

Beirdo:

I foresee some UPNP debugging soon

[21:52:53]

momelod:

scan for changes, or retrieve all details?

[21:53:14]

Beirdo:

I think the firmware on this WD box (stupid upgrades) is a wee wonky now

[21:53:57]

Beirdo:

oooh, and thread pool exhausted

[21:54:00]

Beirdo:

that sure can't help

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Beirdo:

keepalive is the devil

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digitalstimulus:

I am having an unusual problem using mythvideo on Ubuntu 10.10. 1) I am unable to retrieve/save movie ratings from themoviedb.org 2) I am using storage groups for video, but have a separate folder defined for ISOs so that they play. The fanart/coverart seems to change from "/var/lib...cover.jpg" to "cover.jpg" even after I set them all up.

[22:23:09]

momelod:

is there any danger is using mythweb to edit metadata?

[22:23:30]

Beirdo:

digitalstimulus: ISOs play from SG in 0.24 AFAIK

[22:23:42]

[R]:

momelod: yes... it's going to make your computer explode

[22:24:12]

digitalstimulus:

I am using the latest mythvideo in Ubuntu 10.04 and I was unable to get isos to play from storage groups

[22:24:39]

digitalstimulus:

let me check version

[22:24:42]

Beirdo:

first you say 10.10, then 10.04

[22:24:52]

Beirdo:

make up your mind, please :)

[22:24:53]

wagnerrp:

10.10 and 10.04 both run 0.23

[22:25:01]

digitalstimulus:

yes, I was confused. my desktop is 10.10, mythbox is 10.04

[22:25:12]

wagnerrp:

either way, if you want to use ISOs, you should upgrade to 0.24

[22:25:20]

wagnerrp:

and that means 0.24 on all connected machines

[22:25:30]

** Beirdo tests cd ripping **

[22:25:36]

wagnerrp:

momelod: [R] is correct, video in mythweb is currently unsupported

[22:25:59]

digitalstimulus:

if 0.24 can update elegantly, I am game :)

[22:26:25]

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[22:26:35]

wagnerrp:

check the release notes

[22:26:45]

wagnerrp:

the only issue you may encounter is with audio changes

[22:27:13]

digitalstimulus:

I don't really feel like setting up all the auto startup/shutdown scripts, channels, etc again for some missing coverarts

[22:27:32]

digitalstimulus:

I will look into it, thanks for the info

[22:27:38]

wagnerrp:

the database will update itself automatically, as it always has

[22:27:45]

wagnerrp:

there is no need to reconfigure from scratch

[22:27:50]

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[22:32:04]

digitalstimulus:

does anyone know why movies from themoviedb.org always show NR for the ratings? is that also a 0.23 problem?

[22:32:26]

wagnerrp:

what movies?

[22:32:30]

wagnerrp:

give an example?

[22:32:41]

digitalstimulus:

any video files that use the metadata lookup in mythvideo

[22:32:59]

wagnerrp:

give me a name to test

[22:33:20]

digitalstimulus:

all movies, like the kind that play in theatres. "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" those kinds of movies

[22:33:27]

digitalstimulus:

"Ocean's Eleven"

[22:33:46]

digitalstimulus:

themoviedb.org shows the proper ratings, but mythvideo always shows NR

[22:35:33]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, now to figure out how to trigger the cdrecord calls from the frontend

[22:36:10]

digitalstimulus:

I don't remember the name of the script that ubuntu's mythvideo auto sets up as a cron job, but when I ran the script manually it shows that pretty much all of the video files needed the rating updated, but it doesn't seem to be happening in 0.23

[22:38:56]

wagnerrp:

well the grabber script is returning the data

[22:39:03]

Beirdo:

Whhhhaaaa?!

[22:39:36]

digitalstimulus:

I'm not at the myth box to have more info at the moment

[22:39:41]

Beirdo:

Decoder error. Could not open file (/mnt/store/music/1/music/Petra/God_Fixation/01_If_I_Had_to_Die_for_Someone.ogg)

[22:39:50]

Beirdo:

that path is NOT what I configured!

[22:41:09]

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[22:42:33]

Beirdo:

AND

[22:42:43]

Beirdo:

that path is nowhere in the settings table

[22:43:00]

Beirdo:

should be /opt/mythtv/videos1/music/....

[22:43:10]

wagnerrp:

music_directories

[22:43:57]

Beirdo:

set where and how?

[22:44:17]

wagnerrp:

its a table

[22:44:23]

Beirdo:

it ripped it just fine

[22:44:26]

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[22:44:30]

Beirdo:

OK, but how is that setup?

[22:44:38]

wagnerrp:

you mean that was brand new content?

[22:44:44]

Beirdo:

yes

[22:44:47]

Beirdo:

I just ripped it

[22:44:51]

wagnerrp:

not some old content that was in an old place

[22:44:54]

wagnerrp:

yeah... no idea

[22:45:17]

Beirdo:

and it set it to "1/music/Petra/God_Fixation"

[22:45:25]

Beirdo:

I think I found a bug in the ripping code

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[22:50:42]

sphery:

do we even still support xvmc-vld? I thought we removed that?

[22:51:24]

sphery:

hmmm... maybe not yet

[22:51:46]

sphery:

sounds like #9293 is the perfect motivation to remove XvMC

[22:58:45]

sphery:

wagnerrp: f-m-u needs you on the -users list: "Transcoding SD MPEG2 to H.264---recommendations?"

[22:59:07]

sphery:

Where, oh where is the voice of reason when it's needed?

[23:01:15]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i thought xvmc-vld was removed a couple versions ago because the drivers themselves were borken

[23:04:59]

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[23:10:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6980 ... no commit referenced that removes vld support

[23:11:54]

sphery:

configure still lists --enable-xvmc-vld and --xvmc-lib options

[23:11:57]

sphery:

guess it's still there

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[23:20:53]

Beirdo:

anyone have any idea how to get to the code that writes CDs in mythmusic?

[23:22:14]

[R]:

Beirdo: first you need to get eye of newt

[23:22:22]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:23:51]

Beirdo:

OH CRAP

[23:23:59]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: found another pile to convert

[23:24:03]

Beirdo:

Q3Process

[23:24:09]

Beirdo:

guuuuh.

[23:24:33]

wagnerrp:

Q3Process? heh...

[23:24:42]

Beirdo:

yay

[23:24:52]

Beirdo:

well, aborting debugging

[23:25:05]

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[23:25:06]

Beirdo:

let's convert these joyful pieces of crap

[23:25:15]

Beirdo:

then try again :)

[23:25:36]

Beirdo:

OK, only 2 of em

[23:25:36]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:27:08]

Beirdo:

UGH!

[23:27:32]

Beirdo:

and it's using nonbuffered I/O to do progress updates

[23:28:49]

Beirdo:

I guess we need the "dataReady" or whatever signal

[23:29:32]

wagnerrp:

do we /need/ it?

[23:29:43]

wagnerrp:

or can we just pass that when the process finishes?

[23:29:44]

Beirdo:

it's for CD burning

[23:30:00]

Beirdo:

the progress bar will go 0–100% if we don't put it in

[23:30:10]

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[23:30:10]

Beirdo:

i.e. be useless

[23:30:17]

Beirdo:

I'll take a whack at it

[23:30:26]

Beirdo:

it's not that hard, really

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