Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, November 9th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:04]

dewman:

darn it...

[00:00:06]

Beirdo:

I'll trade ya a trout upside the head...

[00:00:13]

Beirdo:

but you can have that for free

[00:00:27]

CyberKnet:

!trout dewman digitally confused

[00:00:27]

** MythLogBot slaps dewman with a digitally confused trout on behalf of CyberKnet... **

[00:00:29]

dewman:

nah, i dont like the linger of trout on my head...

[00:00:45]

CyberKnet:

happy to oblige.

[00:00:50]

CyberKnet:

;)

[00:01:39]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: So you didn't choose your GT220 based on any part of the table showing features at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU ?

[00:01:44]

** dewman runs to take a shower **

[00:02:01]

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[00:02:04]

CyberKnet:

it shows a GT 210 as stuttering when using the Advanced (2x) filter on HD content at NTSC frame rates.

[00:02:19]

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[00:02:19]

CyberKnet:

I don't know what that is, mind you ... but ... teh feature no work!

[00:02:41]

Beirdo:

not particularly, I wanted a decent low-profile card

[00:04:32]

CyberKnet:

Sorry. I was getting feature-itis.

[00:05:06]

CyberKnet:

when comparing tables of feature comparisons for features you don't understand, always go with the option that has a "meets expectations" in all the rows.

[00:05:14]

Beirdo:

and for $80 instead of $50 or so, I figured why not get the 1GB card

[00:05:44]

CyberKnet:

I mean really... why not? Who *wouldn't* have 1GB of textures loaded into memory when decoding HD video?

[00:06:02]

CyberKnet:

You could practically have the whole thing in video ram before you even started playing back!

[00:06:11]

Beirdo:

ummm, no :)

[00:06:47]

CyberKnet:

heh

[00:07:07]

CyberKnet:

Excuse me. I seem to be excited over nothing.

[00:07:15]

CyberKnet:

I'm not even ordering it! wahoo!

[00:07:16]

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[00:08:03]

Beirdo:

you drinkin moonshine, boy?

[00:08:18]

CyberKnet:

I should be.

[00:08:18]

ekristen:

anyone having issues checking out from the subversion repository?

[00:08:51]

CyberKnet:

No, I'm just at my wits end trying to get everything upgraded and fully tested so that I can make a meaningful purchase decision. Motherboard, GPU and fan, or tuner card.

[00:09:18]

CyberKnet:

that PVR-500 is going to have to come out of the backend tonight and into this desktop, but I'll be damned if I know how I'm getting a cable signal to this desktop.

[00:10:06]

CyberKnet:

I wish I had a spool of QS RG6 to make a decent length coax cable from.

[00:10:28]

CyberKnet:

not enough to go buy the cable, mind you.

[00:10:30]

ekristen:

I can't seem to do a checkout from the subversion repository

[00:10:38]

Sp0tter:

im' using an intel atom for my backend and frontend

[00:10:38]

ekristen:

I get this error "svn: The OPTIONS response did not include the requested activity-collection-set; this often means that the URL is not WebDAV-enabled"

[00:10:39]

CyberKnet:

ekristen: I don't know, sorry...

[00:10:51]

ekristen:

Beirdo or wagnerrp are you around?

[00:11:10]

Beirdo:

maybe

[00:11:54]

ekristen:

can you checkout from subversion?

[00:11:59]

ekristen:

I get a weird error when I try

[00:12:45]

Beirdo:

one second

[00:13:21]

ekristen:

ok

[00:14:04]

Beirdo:

worked fine here

[00:14:07]

Beirdo:

svn co http://svn.mythtv.org/svn/trunk/ mythtv-trunk

[00:15:50]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: with trunk and the HVR-2250's ... do you add a separate capture card for the analog vs digital tuner?

[00:15:58]

Beirdo:

yes

[00:16:04]

CyberKnet:

that makes sense.

[00:16:09]

Beirdo:

the analog side is configured the same as the PVR-500

[00:16:11]

CyberKnet:

And they are then in capture groups?

[00:16:24]

Beirdo:

you also need to create input groups by hand

[00:16:35]

CyberKnet:

yes, that makes sense.

[00:16:40]

Beirdo:

and put the digital and analog for each tuner in its own input group

[00:16:47]

CyberKnet:

Also makes sense.

[00:17:23]

CyberKnet:

so one HVR-2250 leaves you with four capture cards connected to four inputs in two input groups

[00:17:37]

ekristen:

hrm

[00:17:41]

Beirdo:

or more

[00:17:49]

CyberKnet:

or more, if you use SVIdeo/composite/etc

[00:17:59]

CyberKnet:

sorry, I did make the assumption there that a person was only using the tuners.

[00:17:59]

Beirdo:

as the digital side can use multirec

[00:18:07]

CyberKnet:

I've never used that.

[00:18:31]

Beirdo:

so you can have several virtual recorders on the one digital tuner (also needs to be in an input group)

[00:18:56]

CyberKnet:

But those would have to be recording sub-channels of the same channel at the same time?

[00:19:06]

Beirdo:

essentially

[00:19:15]

CyberKnet:

I'm not really sure how multi-rec works at all, let alone in conjunction with QAM

[00:19:18]

CyberKnet:

ClearQAM

[00:19:19]

Beirdo:

multiple streams from the same multiplex

[00:19:43]

Beirdo:

who knows how ClearQAM has the "channels" stuffed into multiplexes

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wagnerrp:

am now... just a few minutes after you left

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[01:35:20]

stevieman:

anyone have any ideas on why a svideo signal is in Black and White? Could it be a Pal/NTSC thing?

[01:38:36]

wagnerrp:

because the chromance pin is not connected

[01:39:00]

wagnerrp:

light and color are sent in two separate signals

[01:39:59]

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[01:42:52]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: You're thinking a broken svideo cable?

[01:43:18]

wagnerrp:

that, or youve got too much EM interference

[01:43:25]

wagnerrp:

color information drops before brightness

[01:44:16]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: Well since the computer is back in the same spot it was before the new video card but with a different cable, Ill take the cable bet

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[01:54:10]

sphery:

stevieman: also note that a lot of S-Video/Composite adapters are one-way (and using them the wrong way will tend to strip color info)

[01:56:12]

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[01:56:18]

bobgill_:

Everytime I start mythfrontend it has a bit of lag, and I think it's caused by this (shell output): http://pastebin.ca/1985915

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[01:59:56]

wagnerrp:

youre worried about something that takes one twentieth of a second to execute?

[02:01:43]

bobgill_:

Takes generally 5–10 seconds, and it's not a big deal by any means but wouldn't hurt to eliminate

[02:02:08]

wagnerrp:

i would imagine thats just the last thing run before whatever actually takes 5–10 seconds

[02:02:21]

wagnerrp:

unless youve got other logs showing it taking that much time

[02:04:57]

Sp0tter:

does mythtv make use of multiple cores when flagging commercials

[02:06:05]

bobgill_:

Okay is roughly 3–4 seconds here, but I am on my desktop and definitely is longer on laptop, but here is full output from running FE: http://pastebin.ca/1985926

[02:06:53]

wagnerrp:

Sp0tter: it will run dual threaded

[02:07:01]

Sp0tter:

no more?

[02:07:26]

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[02:07:37]

wagnerrp:

for nearly all content, decoding will be single threaded

[02:07:51]

wagnerrp:

the detection itself at least runs in a separate thread

[02:07:58]

wagnerrp:

but ive seen it taking up two full cores before

[02:08:05]

Sp0tter:

i thought because its a post processing step it could go faster

[02:08:09]

wagnerrp:

i dont know off hand what its doing

[02:08:11]

Sp0tter:

since i can use all 6 cores when encoding to mpeg4

[02:08:15]

wagnerrp:

but i know it will run better than single threaded

[02:08:15]

Sp0tter:

transcoding

[02:08:19]

wagnerrp:

no you cant

[02:08:25]

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[02:08:26]

Sp0tter:

i don't use myth for it

[02:08:29]

Sp0tter:

I use handbrake

[02:08:32]

wagnerrp:

mythtranscode, and mpeg4 (ASP) in general, is single threaded

[02:08:33]

Sp0tter:

and i can/do

[02:08:47]

Sp0tter:

yea, I run handbrake from another computer with 6 cores

[02:08:52]

wagnerrp:

you are using multiple slices with h264

[02:08:58]

wagnerrp:

which h264 IS mpeg4 part 10

[02:09:19]

wagnerrp:

it is usually described as h264, to differentiate it from mpeg4 part 2 (ASP, xvid, divx)

[02:09:30]

Sp0tter:

it goes 12 times faster when i do it from my comptuer with the myth record dir mounted over ssh

[02:09:48]

Sp0tter:

can do an hour long recording from mpeg2 to 4 in 9 minutes

[02:09:51]

wagnerrp:

s/which/while/

[02:10:48]

wagnerrp:

thats awfully fast... you have to be cutting pretty low on the quality settings

[02:10:56]

hackbox:

hi! anyone here playing with a recent mythfrontend 0.24 rc2 win32 build?

[02:11:01]

Sp0tter:

nope, i have a 6 core 4ghz processor

[02:11:43]

Sp0tter:

well i might be cutting low, i dont know what you consider low

[02:12:03]

Sp0tter:

http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/BuiltInPresets#universal

[02:12:05]

wagnerrp:

last time i tried it, i was getting about 2–3fps on a 2.75GHz Core2Duo

[02:12:08]

Sp0tter:

those are the settings i use

[02:12:20]

wagnerrp:

faster processor, more cores, more optimized x264... i could see doing it in real time

[02:12:22]

Sp0tter:

i think i get 110 fps

[02:12:26]

Sp0tter:

or maybe more

[02:12:29]

wagnerrp:

but for 6x real time, those are some garbage settings

[02:13:05]

Sp0tter:

the stuff looks pretty good to me

[02:13:33]

Sp0tter:

its all OTA stuff

[02:13:39]

Sp0tter:

so its 1080i max i guess?

[02:13:53]

Sp0tter:

maybe thats what's throwing you off

[02:14:40]

wagnerrp:

no, this was 1080i i was transcoding

[02:14:59]

Sp0tter:

well I can give you exact numbers next time I do it, but I think i'm pretty close with what i told you

[02:15:04]

Sp0tter:

it maxes all cores

[02:15:20]

Sp0tter:

with "full resolution" settings

[02:15:38]

wagnerrp:

im just thrown off by that '-q' setting

[02:15:53]

Sp0tter:

i have no idea what it is, i just ran all the presets and took the one that looked the best

[02:15:53]

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[02:15:53]

wagnerrp:

im used to the values x264 uses, i dont know the meaning of handbrake's values

[02:16:25]

wagnerrp:

can level 3.0 even do HD?

[02:16:45]

Sp0tter:

no idea what you are tlkaing about

[02:16:59]

wagnerrp:

hell, thats why

[02:17:06]

Sp0tter:

why?

[02:17:07]

wagnerrp:

youre only encoding to 480p

[02:17:13]

wagnerrp:

that IS garbage

[02:17:16]

Sp0tter:

i do'nt think so

[02:17:22]

Sp0tter:

wher does it say that

[02:17:53]

Sp0tter:

ah i see

[02:18:26]

Sp0tter:

hmm i'll have to play with these more then

[02:19:00]

wagnerrp:

are you actually constrained for hard drive space?

[02:19:14]

Sp0tter:

not really

[02:19:25]

Sp0tter:

i have 7 terrabytes on the file server, i just was only using the 750gig in this comptuer

[02:19:28]

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[02:19:34]

Sp0tter:

but i wante dto recorda lot of stuff, i mean a lot

[02:19:36]

wagnerrp:

h264 is only going to get you to half, maybe a third, before you start losing quality

[02:19:37]

Sp0tter:

my g/f watches tons of shows

[02:19:39]

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[02:19:48]

Sp0tter:

half would be fine

[02:19:53]

wagnerrp:

unless youre using Apple devices, you should be using CABAC, not CAVLC

[02:20:00]

wagnerrp:

with CAVLC, you wont even get half

[02:20:01]

Sp0tter:

i really just want the best i can get without losing quality

[02:20:07]

Sp0tter:

im' not using apple devices

[02:20:22]

** Sp0tter shudders. **

[02:21:18]

wagnerrp:

for HD content, youre going to want to be at least 4.0

[02:21:27]

Sp0tter:

4.0 what

[02:21:36]

wagnerrp:

level

[02:21:40]

Sp0tter:

level of what?

[02:21:45]

wagnerrp:

h264

[02:21:54]

Sp0tter:

ah ok, sorry I haven't done any reserach on it

[02:24:12]

wagnerrp:

the 'Constant Quality Rate' looks decent, but some of those options will prevent playback on hardware decoders

[02:24:17]

wagnerrp:

and subme=9 is probably overkill

[02:24:59]

Sp0tter:

it would be nice if i could just choose the % quality i'm willing to lose

[02:25:10]

Sp0tter:

and it keep the same resolution

[02:25:32]

Sp0tter:

instead of reading about what all the settings do and tweaking it to fit right

[02:25:45]

wagnerrp:

thats the quantizer

[02:26:13]

wagnerrp:

you set a constant quantizer, and it adjusts the bitrate as needed to maintain that quality

[02:26:51]

wagnerrp:

it lets you do single pass, with the side effect of an unpredictable file size

[02:27:01]

Sp0tter:

oh ok

[02:27:04]

Sp0tter:

so thats what the constant quality is

[02:27:13]

wagnerrp:

multi-pass encoding basically exists to automatically set that quantizer such that you will hit a specific file size

[02:27:18]

Sp0tter:

i don't realyl care about the file size, as long as its not bigger than before heh

[02:27:45]

Sp0tter:

liek i said, space isn't really a monstrous problem, but ideally I would like to run my cron job to encode everyting overnight

[02:27:48]

Sp0tter:

since i record so much stuff

[02:28:04]

wagnerrp:

note that if you are actually keeping stuff in HD, runs will likely be in less than realtime

[02:28:12]

Sp0tter:

thats fine

[02:28:15]

Sp0tter:

can let it go overnight

[02:28:36]

wagnerrp:

and most people in here are going to say its not worth the time or power investment, better to just buy new hard drives

[02:29:03]

Sp0tter:

right now it takes this 1.6 atom processor an hour to flag commercials in 1 hour of recording

[02:29:37]

Sp0tter:

wagnerrp: yea if its going to do it in less than real time, i can see how it wouldn't be worth the power for most things

[02:29:55]

Sp0tter:

maybe i'lkl just redirect the record directory to my file server

[02:30:22]

Sp0tter:

i was going to store a lot of it forever though

[02:30:37]

Sp0tter:

if i were only watfhing then deleting i wouldnt even think about encoding heh

[02:30:50]

wagnerrp:

i normally clip out the commercials (cuts space by maybe 30%) and then archive it to mythvideo

[02:31:12]

wagnerrp:

recording done to a handful of 300GB drive, and mythvideo using some 5TB of RAID storage

[02:31:19]

Sp0tter:

will myth cut the commericlas with a setting, or do i need to setup a differnet script? I briefly read a wiki page on it

[02:31:20]

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[02:31:22]

Sp0tter:

seemed a little invovled

[02:32:13]

Sp0tter:

i have 6.7TB of formatted space total on my file server (raidz2), then 4 gig loose on the network

[02:32:14]

wagnerrp:

go into edit mode ('e'), and load the commercial list ('z')

[02:32:24]

Sp0tter:

manually? ick :)

[02:32:28]

wagnerrp:

spend a couple minutes confirming the cuts, and then run a lossless transcode

[02:32:32]

Sp0tter:

i'll revisit that wikipage later, but thats a good idea for space

[02:32:45]

wagnerrp:

there is no automatic option, the commflagger is not sufficiently reliable

[02:32:46]

Sp0tter:

they 've seemed very acurate so far

[02:32:51]

Sp0tter:

ah ok

[02:33:00]

wagnerrp:

it takes me about a minute to confirm a good detection

[02:33:10]

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[02:33:14]

wagnerrp:

and maybe 5 to make a new one from scratch if it failed

[02:33:42]

Sp0tter:

yea, its just right now i'm using windows 7 for my main comptuer because of work, and i use linux in a vm.. so i can't load the fronten on my computer

[02:33:47]

wagnerrp:

i might spend about an hour a week going through that week's recordings

[02:33:53]

Sp0tter:

so i have to go sit in front of the tv

[02:34:07]

wagnerrp:

use a windows build of the frontend

[02:34:08]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: how do you archive it to mythvideo i have wanted to do something similair

[02:34:22]

wagnerrp:

Shadow__X: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py

[02:34:30]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: ah ok thanks

[02:35:01]

Shadow__X:

Sp0tter: i have to confirm that aslong as you follow the instructions the windows build works. It wasnt working before but that was because i didnt rtm :(

[02:35:03]

wagnerrp:

pulls metadata from ttvdb/tmdb, sets up a path as per a user definable format, copies the file over, and downloads artwork if necessary

[02:35:20]

Sp0tter:

Shadow__X: ah ok, i didn't even know there was a windows build

[02:35:53]

wagnerrp:

technically, there are no official builds

[02:35:58]

wagnerrp:

but mythtv will build under windows

[02:36:05]

wagnerrp:

and there is a perl script to manage compilation and setup

[02:36:14]

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[02:36:15]

wagnerrp:

some third party offers pre-built installers

[02:36:18]

Shadow__X:

Sp0tter: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_on_Windows

[02:36:20]

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[02:36:23]

Shadow__X:

unofficial windows prebuilds

[02:36:57]

hackbox:

I'm using a Windows frontend for almost a year now and it works pretty well

[02:37:26]

Sp0tter:

i'm trying to decide if its worth it to redo a lot of stuff to move the tuner card and backend to my g/f's quad core

[02:37:32]

Sp0tter:

instead of the dual core atom

[02:37:33]

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[02:37:34]

wagnerrp:

i cant get mine to play recordings... livetv works but not pre-recorded

[02:37:35]

Sp0tter:

1.6

[02:37:37]

Sp0tter:

hers is 2.9 x4

[02:37:45]

Shadow__X:

Sp0tter: just dont click next next next without reading or else it wont work. Which is what i did then i realized i had to edit a file in appdata

[02:37:58]

Sp0tter:

Shadow__X: i'll probably just not do it

[02:38:05]

Sp0tter:

i'll just use linux from my laptop or soemthing

[02:38:07]

Shadow__X:

Sp0tter: it honestly works though

[02:38:08]

Sp0tter:

to eidt the commericals

[02:38:21]

hackbox:

wagnerrp: which build are you using? I have the same problem with my new 0.24rc2 build on win32

[02:38:25]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: really? i am on .23-fixes and it works i can get you the revision numbers

[02:39:09]

wagnerrp:

0.24 rc2 from that wiki link

[02:39:25]

wagnerrp:

has some issue with audio, tries to unlock an unlocked mutex

[02:39:29]

wagnerrp:

and Qt asserts

[02:40:05]

hackbox:

exactly, but I think it's not related to the audio part

[02:40:10]

Beirdo:

where are the corresponding tickets? :)

[02:40:33]

hackbox:

ASSERT failure in QReadWriteLock::unlock(): "Cannot unlock an unlocked lock", file thread\qreadwritelock.cpp, line 405

[02:40:41]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: havent had the desire to build it on my own and confirm

[02:40:53]

wagnerrp:

so i have no idea if its our problem, or the 3rd party's builds

[02:41:05]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: ahhh :) It will be fixed eventually, I'm sure :)

[02:41:24]

** Beirdo wanders all over the web looking for some good git references **

[02:41:55]

hackbox:

Beirdo: hehe! I'd like to be able to provide what it need to have a well documented ticket open

[02:42:26]

wagnerrp:

will windows do backtraces?

[02:42:30]

hackbox:

I've build my own version of 0.24rc2 last night and today using the perl script

[02:42:37]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: not sure.

[02:42:57]

hackbox:

I need to install gdb in mingw32 I think, but the debug part is some what new for me

[02:45:16]

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[02:56:48]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: are we releasing tonight? or did it get pushed back?

[02:57:08]

wagnerrp:

i just havent heard any discussion about it

[02:57:30]

Beirdo:

he's here? :)

[02:58:05]

wagnerrp:

dont know, havent actually heard anything from him in a few days

[02:58:14]

wagnerrp:

but hes been the one pushing the last few releases through

[02:58:18]

wagnerrp:

!seen iamlindoro

[02:58:18]

MythLogBot:

iamlindoro is here and has been idle for 6 hours 49 minutes 37 seconds

[02:59:03]

Beirdo:

I believe he's travelling, and was going to try to release from the hotel

[02:59:30]

Beirdo:

we definitely need to get the process well-documented :)

[02:59:48]

Beirdo:

gah

[03:00:01]

Beirdo:

geico is using xtranormal for an ad?!

[03:00:20]

[R]:

really?

[03:00:21]

[R]:

link?

[03:00:27]

Beirdo:

my TV

[03:00:36]

[R]:

wtf

[03:00:39]

[R]:

thats crazy

[03:00:40]

Beirdo:

tv://currently-playing/

[03:00:44]

[R]:

haha

[03:00:48]

wagnerrp:

yeah, they joke about it being a horrible add that they threw together in about 15 minutes

[03:00:57]

Beirdo:

it's lame

[03:01:18]

[R]:

it saved them millions!

[03:01:21]

[R]:

thats what the headline says

[03:01:33]

Beirdo:

whatever :)

[03:01:43]

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[03:01:46]

Beirdo:

they'd save more if they didn't even air it

[03:02:29]

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[03:02:33]

[R]:

HAHA

[03:06:45]

[R]:

wagnerrp: it seems like people always ask the same thing over and over and you always answer the same way over and over

[03:07:19]

wagnerrp:

no one has made sufficient argument to make me change my mind

[03:07:27]

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[03:08:06]

sphery:

wagnerrp: what were you thinking? Of course it's /the/ best frontend ever.

[03:08:14]

[R]:

hulu desktop chokes on my ion

[03:08:24]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[03:08:24]

sphery:

(I can say that since someone is gone tonight)

[03:08:47]

Beirdo:

my brain read that: hulu desktop chokes my chicken

[03:09:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no... you would be kicked for asking if 'X was the best frontend ever', and subsequently posting a long URL to it

[03:09:47]

sphery:

heh

[03:10:08]

[R]:

Beirdo: you would

[03:10:09]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I just can't believe that the argument on list didn't change your mind. I think the entire argument was, "$500"

[03:10:34]

[R]:

thats hella expensive

[03:10:54]

wagnerrp:

$500 for a high end machine running two machines, versus $450 for a pair of dinky IONs that need a separate backend?

[03:11:16]

sphery:

some guy spent $500 on a non-Revo and said, "I could have gotten 2 Revos for $440 with extra RAM included," so obviously Revo is best ever

[03:11:37]

wagnerrp:

of course i wouldnt have done the multi-headed high end machine either

[03:11:39]

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[03:11:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and what's with the idea of one computer with 2 TV's?

[03:11:51]

Beirdo:

you could pay $800 and get my backend box (less disks)

[03:11:59]

[R]:

sphery: i used to do that

[03:12:01]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah

[03:12:08]

[R]:

sphery: it was really tircky

[03:12:09]

Twiggy2cents:

does a folder in my home directory have to have mythtv-user added to the group to allow mythtv to see it.

[03:12:15]

sphery:

[R]: yeah, I'd call it a waste

[03:12:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: multiheaded frontends would be nice if it were simple

[03:12:18]

Twiggy2cents:

I am not positive that is what its called fui

[03:12:20]

[R]:

sphery: why?

[03:12:26]

Twiggy2cents:

s/fui/fyi/

[03:12:28]

wagnerrp:

but it never is, its always a horribly funky setup

[03:12:29]

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[03:12:34]

sphery:

time, effort, disadvantages of the design, ...

[03:12:40]

[R]:

Twiggy2cents: if you dont understand how permissions work... you should read a book on how they work

[03:12:51]

wagnerrp:

and you still have to have two TVs in relative close proximity

[03:13:00]

[R]:

wagnerrp: 2 rooms taht shared a wall

[03:13:01]

wagnerrp:

unless you plan on having active USB repeaters

[03:13:03]

Twiggy2cents:

...nvm

[03:13:16]

[R]:

sphery: i wound up writing a few small C programs to handle some of the oddities

[03:13:22]

sphery:

Twiggy2cents: typically home directories are only accessible by the user whose home it is (else, it's a poor configuration)

[03:13:38]

sphery:

Twiggy2cents: my recommendation is to put your stuff elsewhere so that mythtv user can see it

[03:13:54]

sphery:

[R]: and the benefits were...

[03:14:05]

sphery:

I see absolutely no benefits to the design

[03:14:08]

sphery:

only disadvantages

[03:14:08]

[R]:

sphery: my dad is lame

[03:14:08]

Twiggy2cents:

is it bad to add mythtv user to the specific folder? (video folder)

[03:14:17]

[R]:

sphery: and two tvs worked with myth and one computer

[03:14:20]

Shadow__X:

how would the each frontend distinguish the ir remote inputs?

[03:14:36]

[R]:

Shadow__X: differnet lirc devices, different remote names

[03:14:49]

[R]:

[08:12:40] [R] Twiggy2cents: if you dont understand how permissions work... you should read a book on how they work

[03:15:00]

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[03:15:02]

sphery:

Shadow__X: mythfrontend knows nothing of remote inputs--it doesn't use them. It uses strings provided by LIRC through LIRC's socket.

[03:15:11]

Shadow__X:

[R]: oh ok i didnt think of that. So you couldnt use the same mce type remote right

[03:15:36]

[R]:

Shadow__X: no, you could

[03:15:42]

[R]:

Shadow__X: 2 instances of lirc

[03:15:44]

Shadow__X:

sphery: so at that point you just have to distingush the ir sensors at the 2 different locations to point to the appropriate frontend?

[03:16:01]

Shadow__X:

[R]: each dedicated to one ir receiver?

[03:16:10]

stevieman:

wagnerrp: Not a broken Svideo cable but a shared Svideo input with Composet cables that were plugged in.

[03:16:14]

[R]:

Shadow__X: uh... duh?

[03:16:23]

sphery:

Shadow__X: no, mythfrontend responds to the string 'P', received over the LIRC socket from any LIRC receiver

[03:16:50]

Shadow__X:

[R]: just making sure. i havn't done that before

[03:16:52]

sphery:

Shadow__X: so if you want 2 different remotes for 2 different frontends, you'd have to have 2 different sockets/lircds

[03:17:05]

Shadow__X:

oh ok i gotcha thanks sphery

[03:17:07]

sphery:

yeah, just part of the confusion of the setup

[03:17:11]

[R]:

sphery: you can a ctually do a master/slave thing with lircd... and have 1 socket

[03:17:19]

wagnerrp:

actually, you can filter by driver

[03:17:40]

[R]:

(btw... that's what she said)

[03:17:52]

** Beirdo brains [R] **

[03:17:56]

[R]:

haha

[03:18:01]

wagnerrp:

so if you had two different types of devices, you could run on a single instance of lircd

[03:18:15]

** Beirdo wipes off the putter and puts it away **

[03:18:21]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but when they both send P, both mythfrontends respond to either remote

[03:18:33]

[R]:

sphery: devices have a name you can put in your lircrc

[03:18:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: not if you filter by device type in the lircrc

[03:18:41]

[R]:

lircd.conf entries have a name*

[03:20:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: well, with some versions of LIRC

[03:20:09]

sphery:

I know it doesn't work with all of them

[03:20:28]

wagnerrp:

either way, its a very complex setup

[03:20:31]

sphery:

yeah

[03:20:36]

wagnerrp:

and easier to just buy two frontends

[03:20:37]

sphery:

and not worth the time

[03:20:50]

[R]:

it was a fun activity

[03:20:51]

sphery:

and you don't really get any advantages

[03:20:56]

sphery:

just have to run long cables

[03:21:10]

sphery:

and you save 1.3sq ft of floor space

[03:21:15]

sphery:

woo hoo...

[03:21:36]

[R]:

sphery: when i did it two rooms shared a wall

[03:21:38]

[R]:

so short cables

[03:21:39]

wagnerrp:

only if you dont place it on/in your tv stand

[03:21:40]

sphery:

(and, really, could stack the 2 different computers and save the same floor space)

[03:22:02]

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[03:22:51]

[R]:

this show about the state dept is s ostupid

[03:22:55]

[R]:

i hate hilary clinton

[03:22:58]

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[03:23:27]

Beirdo:

[R]: good for you, let's not talk politics, K?

[03:23:39]

[R]:

whats politics

[03:23:43]

[R]:

i dont like her as a person

[03:23:43]

[R]:

haha

[03:23:58]

Beirdo:

I'm sure the feeling is mutual

[03:24:04]

[R]:

lol

[03:24:15]

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[03:47:45]

stevieman:

since I can now enjoy mythtv in colour anyone have any thoughts on adding audio to the experience. I get nothing in the sound department.

[03:49:56]

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[03:54:18]

Sp0tter:

stevieman: did you set the mixer in the frontendsetup?

[04:00:31]

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[04:01:33]

stevieman:

Sp0tter: Yes I did, apparently my TV just sucks. I played around with the inputs again and I got sound. Some weird things going on with the shared AV1 inputs

[04:02:23]

stevieman:

now I just need to figure out what I'm doing wrong with irexec and sdlmame and everything will be good to go

[04:05:35]

stevieman:

anyways, that's a battle for tomorrow

[04:05:48]

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[04:21:22]

[R]:

if i'm watching a show, how can i get the program info?

[04:21:27]

[R]:

i've never been abel to figur ethat otu

[04:21:49]

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[04:21:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: theyre doing an 'enhance' in tonight's castle

[04:22:39]

wagnerrp:

on the plus side, theyre doing an 'enhance' on an image taken from a dSLR with a telephoto lens

[04:23:01]

wagnerrp:

no cheesy CCTV video cameras for them

[04:23:36]

sphery:

heh

[04:23:55]

sphery:

the most-realistic treatment of the image zoom/enhancement that I've seen so far was on Community.

[04:24:19]

wagnerrp:

'the enhancement only increased the pixellation on all these, you cant even tell theres a side view mirror'

[04:24:24]

wagnerrp:

that realistic enough for you?

[04:24:56]

sphery:

Pierce had a guy zooming a ton of times, then they showed the screen--it was a PDF manual for his spy copter showing the page at like 16x zoom

[04:25:09]

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[04:25:09]

sphery:

nice

[04:25:32]

sphery:

hope more start to get more realism

[04:25:49]

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[04:35:16]

wagnerrp:

is it just me or does it seem like hardware decoders are becoming /more/ restrictive in what they support?

[04:36:33]

[R]:

like what?

[04:38:24]

wagnerrp:

theyre talking about the googletv and roku xr-hd in the other channel

[04:38:32]

wagnerrp:

and how they cant play any mythtv recordings

[04:38:53]

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[04:39:36]

[R]:

do the chips really not support it... or is it a software limitation

[04:39:56]

[R]:

my crappy realtek based device can play anythign i throw at it

[04:40:24]

k_ross_:

my guess is they support the mpeg2 and h.264 codecs, just the software doesn't properly cope with the file format, perhaps

[04:40:53]

sphery:

I'd guess patents/licensing

[04:41:21]

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[04:44:16]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: what hardware decoder do some of the google tv boxes have. I know they have a paltry atom cpu

[04:44:28]

wagnerrp:

no idea

[04:45:25]

Shadow__X:

it seemed like the broadcomm crystalhd handled quite a few different formats didnt it?

[04:45:36]

wagnerrp:

yes

[04:52:05]

wagnerrp:

olivia wilde is still listed in the credits for house

[04:52:10]

wagnerrp:

guess that means shes coming back

[04:52:18]

gaurdro:

grr. so my HVR-1600 just won't work under linux. works fine with windows. Is there any other combo (analog+digital) card that people would recommend? I've googled and looked at the supported hardware list and not gotten very far. :(

[04:52:20]

Shadow__X:

did those work with mythtv?

[04:52:53]

Shadow__X:

gaurdro: although it was >8months ago my hvr-1600 worked under linux and even in mythtv

[04:53:55]

wagnerrp:

gaurdro: whose hardware list did you look at?

[04:53:59]

gaurdro:

Shadow__X, I ,know it works for the majority of people, just this one doesn't for me, unfortunately. I get video but no sound even with all the tricks and even when the card locks on to a standard.

[04:54:21]

gaurdro:

there was one on mythtv, and another from the ivtv folks.

[04:54:48]

sphery:

gaurdro: and you're sure it's not just the player that's lacking sound? Have you tried playing a recording with some other app?

[04:55:36]

gaurdro:

yea, I've tried mplayer, vlc, mythtv, and dumping to file under linux. none of it worked. (and yes I set the bit rate properly) under windows it works beautifully out of the box.

[04:57:32]

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[04:58:19]

gaurdro:

so, yea, has anyone had a good experience with a different combo tuner? or just analog tuner? I can do away with digital for now.

[04:58:19]

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[04:58:39]

wagnerrp:

got any PCIe slots?

[04:59:50]

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[04:59:55]

Shadow__X:

gaurdro: are you able to get sound from other things

[04:59:55]

gaurdro:

I do have one 1X slot available

[05:00:18]

wagnerrp:

how about an HVR-2250

[05:00:36]

gaurdro:

Shadow__X, yep. I get sound from dvd, mp3's, streaming radio/video youtube etc.

[05:00:57]

Shadow__X:

ah ok

[05:01:30]

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[05:01:39]

gaurdro:

wagnerrp, does that use the cx18 drivers as well?

[05:01:41]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you watch human target, right?

[05:02:09]

sphery:

haven't started, yet, but plan to

[05:02:26]

wagnerrp:

gaurdro: analog support requires developmental drivers

[05:02:34]

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[05:02:35]

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[05:02:40]

sphery:

1600 should be much easier than 2250

[05:02:47]

wagnerrp:

agreed

[05:02:59]

wagnerrp:

sphery: was thinking of picking it up as a filler show

[05:03:13]

wagnerrp:

seems like something that wouldnt be bothered by me missing the first two seasons

[05:04:11]

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[05:05:21]

sphery:

iam lindoro has been watching it--he could tell you

[05:05:34]

wagnerrp:

if he gets back in

[05:05:42]

wagnerrp:

oh well... not like i cant just delete it

[05:06:01]

sphery:

he said he really liked it

[05:06:09]

sphery:

but expected it to get the fox treatment

[05:06:23]

gaurdro:

sphery, from looking at it, it seems to be about the same. just for some reason the 1600 doesn't work for me. plop it in another machine it works. :/

[05:06:29]

CyberKnet:

updated to mythbuntu 10.10 and the tuner problem with the pvr-500 is gone for now.

[05:06:30]

CyberKnet:

weird.

[05:08:41]

sphery:

gaurdro: well, 2250 requires development drivers for analog support and requires MythTV 0.24-fixes or trunk/unstable/development

[05:08:58]

sphery:

1600 works with stable, released, MythTV and in-kernel drivers

[05:11:17]

Shadow__X:

gaurdro: my friend has a similair problem but the card was not seated properly in the pci slot

[05:11:28]

Shadow__X:

so make sure its fully seated and its not being shorted out

[05:11:54]

gaurdro:

I can double check that, but wouldn't that make it not work in windows as well?

[05:12:12]

CyberKnet:

sphery: hvr1600 = 0.5 x hvr2250 in functionality, isn't it? (I realize the hardware is different)

[05:12:44]

Shadow__X:

gaurdro: yeah sure but you shouldnt be having problems like that with the 1600

[05:12:59]

Shadow__X:

glad mchou isnt here to yell about people using the hvr 1600

[05:13:16]

Shadow__X:

or was it mchou that always was digruntled by the 1600?

[05:13:43]

sphery:

CyberKnet: yeah, basically

[05:14:03]

sphery:

Shadow__X: +1

[05:14:04]

wagnerrp:

Shadow__X: yeah, he disliked the tuner

[05:14:15]

sphery:

and all things Hauppauge

[05:15:00]

CyberKnet:

why hate Hauppauge? Gosh. I can't imagine the state of recording video on linux without Hauppauge hardware.

[05:15:06]

gaurdro:

does anybody know which kernel the support for the 1600 was put into the main tree? I may have been doing it wrong.

[05:15:13]

Shadow__X:

ah but so far i like their stuff. I am hoping soon i can get atleast one hdpvr

[05:15:15]

k-man:

is there some option in mythtv that controls the size of the fonts displayed in the theme?

[05:15:39]

CyberKnet:

Shadow__X: Yeah, I'm with you. I like Hauppauge gear from what I have experienced.

[05:15:57]

sphery:

CyberKnet: exactly--and they do a /lot/ to support FOSS

[05:16:19]

sphery:

!url tuners

[05:16:19]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[05:16:24]

Shadow__X:

sphery: yeah exactly. Thats great that they do

[05:16:26]

wagnerrp:

theyre really starting to advertise hard for conan

[05:16:57]

sphery:

gaurdro: per http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCI_Cards 2.6.26

[05:17:17]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Yeah, I don't want to short change the work done by Devin Heitmeuller or Steven Toth in that particular arena, nor the guys at ivtv ... but even there it seems like Hauppauge helps to the extent they are legally able to.

[05:17:22]

gaurdro:

sphery, thanks.

[05:17:51]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: his new show on tbs? i just saw the commercial for it today. Interesting its on tbs

[05:18:33]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Is Daniel K documenting his Ceton InfiniTV effort anywhere? I'd like to follow progress but realized I have no idea what is going on...

[05:18:33]

sphery:

wagnerrp: The Tonight Show is definitely looking troubled, these days. Ever since the late-night wars, it seems they've been having trouble finding guests and they've had a lot of days without new shows...

[05:19:14]

sphery:

CyberKnet: there's a branch for it, but that's about it--mythtv-rec

[05:19:28]

Shadow__X:

sphery: i personally cant believe they make so much money on those shows

[05:19:39]

CyberKnet:

I see wagnerrp's response in the mythtv-users thread :)

[05:19:49]

CyberKnet:

well timed, and accurately stated.

[05:20:05]

Shadow__X:

i also really enjoyed conan at google

[05:20:43]

CyberKnet:

I think I'm the only person in the world that respects Conan's ethics and hates his comedy.

[05:21:20]

sphery:

I can't believe that. j-rod is actually recommending that people get a capable and useful system for a frontend on the -users list. Doesn't he realize that we're supposed to recommend the worst-possible hardware so that we can have 30 threads, 200-replies deep, helping each user configure his garbage system?

[05:21:35]

sphery:

someone needs to send him a copy of the list charter

[05:21:44]

CyberKnet:

lol

[05:22:47]

CyberKnet:

but ... how can I make my dual proc PIII-450 encode HD to MPEG5 from a framegrabber and playback in real time? There has to be SOME marginal way I can accomplish this!

[05:23:01]

sphery:

heh

[05:23:05]

CyberKnet:

I mean, it has TWO processors, and encoding MPEG4 is /embarrassingly/ parallel.

[05:23:08]

Shadow__X:

sphery: i thought a celeron 400 mhz was still recommended specs!

[05:23:10]

** [R] gets his shotgun out **

[05:23:16]

[R]:

TIME TRAVELLER!

[05:23:24]

** [R] shouts MOB **

[05:23:25]

sphery:

I hope it's a rack full of dual-proc PIII-450 servers

[05:23:51]

CyberKnet:

!trout [R] this-is-not-the-time-traveller-you-are-looking-for

[05:23:51]

** MythLogBot slaps [R] with a this-is-not-the-time-traveller-you-are-looking-for trout on behalf of CyberKnet... **

[05:23:58]

[R]:

lol

[05:24:15]

CyberKnet:

nor the time traveller's wife.

[05:24:28]

sphery:

where's a Time Cop when you need one

[05:25:21]

CyberKnet:

Aaah me. Wagnerrp's right. The Ceton InfiniTV4 card is just a bitter reminder of a dream that will never come to fruition... the chase of which will leave me a surly, grumpy old man.

[05:25:36]

CyberKnet:

nuts.

[05:25:58]

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[05:26:12]

wagnerrp:

whats that?

[05:26:40]

CyberKnet:

the dream of recording premium content via cablecard on mythtv.

[05:27:12]

wagnerrp:

it will work just fine... if your cableco broadcasts stuff 'copy freely'

[05:27:34]

CyberKnet:

as in – only if it was avaialble over firewire... yes?

[05:27:35]

Shadow__X:

for some reason that doesnt sound like broadcasters mo

[05:27:40]

wagnerrp:

apparently they are doing that with a lot more content since tivo works the same way

[05:27:51]

wagnerrp:

(at least you need copy freely for remote viewing)

[05:27:55]

CyberKnet:

and Cox Communications in Tulsa broadcasts nothing on firewire except the free to air channels.

[05:28:26]

CyberKnet:

wagnerrp: that's somethign I didn't know. I may have to get an HD box again to check out firewire again and re-survey the situation.

[05:28:56]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp: really? so its plausible to get that card + cablecard and get more than my current firewire setup?

[05:29:27]

wagnerrp:

i do not know for certain that the cablecard DRM rules and firewire capture uses the same flags

[05:29:32]

Beirdo:

CyberKnet: two strikes there.

[05:29:44]

Beirdo:

1) Cox... 2) Oklahoma :)

[05:30:30]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: Oh sure. Let me switch to AT&T's uVerse offering. I'm sure that would be better :)

[05:30:41]

Beirdo:

it might be.

[05:30:50]

Beirdo:

or try moving to civilization :)

[05:30:50]

CyberKnet:

(Except that uVerse isn't available in my run-down neighborhood)

[05:30:57]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: Not gonna do it.

[05:31:02]

Beirdo:

wuss

[05:31:08]

CyberKnet:

Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture in time...

[05:31:10]

CyberKnet:

;)

[05:31:19]

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[05:31:28]

Beirdo:

pfft

[05:31:31]

CyberKnet:

Help me find a GT220 card for less than $50, huh?

[05:31:52]

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[05:31:56]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:31:57]

CyberKnet:

58 is as low as I can find including shipping.

[05:32:05]

Beirdo:

you put down the bong.

[05:32:06]

CyberKnet:

and that's a 512mb card.

[05:32:21]

CyberKnet:

And 512mb is /not/ going to cut it.

[05:32:32]

Beirdo:

512 millibit?

[05:32:35]

Beirdo:

pretty small

[05:32:38]

CyberKnet:

oh screw off :)

[05:32:44]

CyberKnet:

512 megabyte.

[05:32:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:32:55]

CyberKnet:

maybe I should say Mebbibyte?

[05:33:03]

Beirdo:

nope

[05:33:08]

Beirdo:

it's megabyte

[05:33:16]

sphery:

not a 220, but http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130541 for about $18.50 after MIR

[05:33:30]

Beirdo:

only harddrives use messed-up-marketing-speak measurements

[05:33:33]

sphery:

(about $19 if you factor in cost of stamp)

[05:33:39]

CyberKnet:

sphery: I've been looking at that one since you mentioned it.

[05:33:42]

sphery:

Hard drives are correct

[05:33:46]

sphery:

MS Windows is messed up

[05:34:10]

sphery:

CyberKnet: ah, didn't remember if you were here last night

[05:34:13]

CyberKnet:

sphery: for which particular reason amongst the legion?

[05:34:20]

sphery:

heh

[05:34:30]

sphery:

for lying to people about the size of a megabyte

[05:34:34]

Beirdo:

sphery: no, harddrives are in marketing-speak

[05:34:37]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Yeah, it's a very attractive price after rebate, and fanless...

[05:34:45]

Beirdo:

1 MB = 10^20 bytes

[05:34:45]

sphery:

yeah

[05:34:53]

Beirdo:

err

[05:34:53]

CyberKnet:

sphery: If it weren't for comparisonitis I'd order it.

[05:34:55]

Beirdo:

2^20

[05:35:02]

** Beirdo needs a clue tonight **

[05:35:15]

sphery:

and with today's ecomony, that heat sink is probably worth almost $18.50 if you recycle it

[05:35:35]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: except kilo,mega,giga ... are prefixes indicating powers of ten.

[05:35:45]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, 1MiB = 2^20 bytes :)

[05:35:58]

Beirdo:

1GB = 2^30, 1TB = 2^40

[05:36:06]

Beirdo:

sphery: nope

[05:36:09]

sphery:

your "i" key must be broken...

[05:36:15]

Beirdo:

that's a retro-definition

[05:36:18]

CyberKnet:

sphery: truly that is one massive heatsink.

[05:36:27]

sphery:

You should see if there's a replacement at i "key" a

[05:36:36]

Shadow__X:

sphery: youll be happy to know that os x 10.6 provides the hard drive equiv of a MB

[05:37:29]

CyberKnet:

Can someone explain to me what "Advanced (2x)" column is at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Vdpau#Supported_Cards please? I'd like to figure out if I care if I buy a card that doesnt support it...

[05:37:51]

Beirdo:

whether or not kilo, mega, etc came from metric or not is irrelevant, for memory/disk size they always have referred to powers of 2, not actual metric numbers

[05:38:08]

sphery:

Beirdo: no, they haven't

[05:38:26]

sphery:

on different platforms they meant a large range of things

[05:38:31]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: And the fact of the matter is ... if the french ever pushed the metric issue, given one stern frown they'd abandon their position!

[05:38:45]

CyberKnet:

I'd duck for cover from any frenchmen in the channel, but ... meh.

[05:38:46]

Beirdo:

sphery: don't make me dig out my EE textbooks to bonk you with

[05:39:27]

Beirdo:

and you've got it wrong there... byte had different connotations on some platforms

[05:39:30]

Beirdo:

:)

[05:39:45]

sphery:

Beirdo: see history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix

[05:39:50]

nutron:

:o @ CyberKnet

[05:39:58]

CyberKnet:

nutron :)

[05:40:02]

sphery:

it was all over the place

[05:40:03]

nutron:

you must be hispanic. There.. I profiled you.

[05:40:04]

nutron:

=D

[05:40:17]

CyberKnet:

nutron: worse. Australian.

[05:40:30]

nutron:

:(

[05:40:30]

sphery:

all that happened with the adoption of the binary prefix was a long-needed standardization of meaning

[05:40:49]

CyberKnet:

nutron: our largest source of national pride is our most overwhelming defeat. How's that for the pot calling the kettle black?

[05:40:51]

nutron:

Actually I've met nothing but good people from australia and lots of 'em

[05:40:51]

Beirdo:

sphery: the whole IEC thing is a retro-definition

[05:40:55]

sphery:

yes

[05:41:03]

nutron:

Lots come to big white

[05:41:07]

sphery:

because the entire industry had different meanings for things

[05:41:27]

Beirdo:

because the harddrive manufacturers were LYING :)

[05:41:28]

nutron:

CyberKnet: Which defeat?

[05:41:42]

nutron:

Beirdo: yes, they don't know how to count.

[05:41:44]

sphery:

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_prefix#Computer_hardware for an enlightening discussion of how everyone /except/ hard drive manufacturers has been consistently messed up :)

[05:41:46]

Beirdo:

megabyte = 2^20. always has, always will

[05:42:10]

k-man:

in arclight, as much as i like it, i struggle with the pixelated background

[05:42:23]

Beirdo:

granted... megabyte was always a stupid term :)

[05:42:23]

sphery:

Beirdo: tell that to your flash drive or your floppy drive or your optical drive

[05:42:30]

CyberKnet:

nutron: Galipoli

[05:42:36]

sphery:

I will agree with that

[05:42:39]

nutron:

CyberKnet: aye, good movie

[05:42:44]

CyberKnet:

Anyone know a cheaper source for silicon fan mounts than this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . 0fan%20mount

[05:42:56]

Beirdo:

but the IEC names... lame :)

[05:43:02]

k-man:

sphery: agree with what?

[05:43:10]

sphery:

that megabyte was always a stupid term

[05:43:21]

k-man:

oh yeah

[05:43:26]

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[05:43:33]

sphery:

k-man: if you don't like the background, replace it with your own

[05:43:41]

Beirdo:

megabyte me

[05:43:43]

sphery:

it was specifically designed to make replacing the background easy

[05:44:02]

sphery:

k-man: besides, if set up properly, you'll seldom see the background when using your system :)

[05:44:04]

k-man:

sphery: oh was it?

[05:44:12]

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[05:44:17]

** Beirdo has some nice fully rendered fractals as Arclight backgrounds **

[05:44:28]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 21397#421397

[05:44:30]

k-man:

sphery: what do you mean by set up properly?

[05:44:38]

sphery:

with metadata for recordings and videos

[05:44:50]

sphery:

so you see the images for them, not the background

[05:45:07]

** Beirdo wants a 1PB drive... for $200 **

[05:45:47]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: Now you're thinking like me!

[05:45:48]

Beirdo:

sphery: of course... WD still lies

[05:46:24]

sphery:

WD's using SI units, right?

[05:46:24]

Beirdo:

the 1TB drives... not 1,000,000,000,000 bytes

[05:46:42]

sphery:

they're less than?

[05:46:45]

Beirdo:

maybe BEFORE preallocation for bad sectors

[05:46:48]

sphery:

wow

[05:47:08]

sphery:

I thought they were required to make it 1,000,000,000,000 bytes or larger

[05:47:24]

sphery:

after preallocation

[05:47:38]

sphery:

I'm still upset that /only/ Seagate got sued for using SI units

[05:47:50]

sphery:

when the entire industry was (and had always been) using them

[05:47:50]

Beirdo:

well, with -m0

[05:47:52]

Beirdo:

/dev/sdf1 985G 382G 604G 39% /opt/mythtv/video4

[05:47:58]

Beirdo:

that's df -H

[05:48:59]

sphery:

what's your system log show for it: Oct 13 19:50:55 europa kernel: sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 2930277168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.50 TB/1.36 TiB)

[05:49:24]

sphery:

so, my 1.5TB has 1500301910016 bytes

[05:49:29]

Beirdo:

[ 9.011920] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdf] 1953525168 512-byte logical blocks: (1.00 TB/931 GiB)

[05:49:51]

CyberKnet:

[ 2.273152] sd 3:0:0:0: [sda] 2929666048 512-byte logical blocks: (1.49 TB/1.36 TiB)

[05:50:21]

sphery:

Weird. df -H shows 1.5T for me on my 1.5TB drive

[05:50:31]

CyberKnet:

sphery: for me also.

[05:50:39]

sphery:

(that being a WD drive)

[05:50:45]

CyberKnet:

mine is Samsung

[05:50:47]

Beirdo:

both your drives are shy of 1.5TB

[05:51:15]

Beirdo:

not by much, but they are, by any definition of TB

[05:51:37]

Beirdo:

now with the preallocation... likely > 1.5TB

[05:52:06]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Here also is a pretty large heatsink ... http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/14 . . . -Z01?$S300W$

[05:52:12]

sphery:

based on 2930277168@512B blocks, it's 1500301910016, which fits for 1.5TB (SI)

[05:52:30]

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[05:52:30]

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[05:52:30]

Beirdo:

hmmm?

[05:52:47]

sphery:

after partitioning and formatting, I see 1442145212@1024B blocks = 1476756697088B

[05:53:31]

Beirdo:

OK

[05:53:36]

Beirdo:

I can't multiply

[05:53:37]

Beirdo:

heh

[05:53:38]

CyberKnet:

Sorry kormoc. I started this :|

[05:53:43]

Beirdo:

1000204886016

[05:53:46]

Beirdo:

there

[05:53:47]

sphery:

with 63 sectors (at 512B) unused at the start and 5104 sectors unused at the end

[05:53:57]

nutron:

Y'know... one thing I've always found interesting is that when I format a block device, total and free are always .. higher than any of the ext's.

[05:54:01]

Beirdo:

JUST just over 1TB defined metricly

[05:54:03]

nutron:

Err.. using jfs

[05:54:28]

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[05:54:54]

Beirdo:

but of course, that doesn't translate to usable space, which is still a lie ;)

[05:55:20]

sphery:

oops, that's a Seagate.

[05:55:28]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: will 1GB vs 512MB on a video card /really/ make any appreciable difference in a combined back/frontend? I can't see how it would off the top of my head.

[05:55:57]

sphery:

still, it looks like some 23542567424B less than the total

[05:56:09]

sphery:

so it looks like they're all showing before pre-allocation

[05:56:26]

Beirdo:

CyberKnet: it might, depending on how complex the eye-candy gets

[05:56:35]

Beirdo:

probably not for a while, I'd bet

[05:57:24]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, it seems they show raw sizes-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk_drive# . . . measurements

[05:57:26]

CyberKnet:

OK. Question 2. I don't believe I use /any/ deinterlacer right now. Should I care that a 210 is reported not to do "Advanced (2x)" on HD content?

[05:57:51]

Beirdo:

probably not

[05:58:03]

CyberKnet:

Awesome. thanks.

[05:58:13]

Beirdo:

I run mine without it :)

[05:58:24]

Beirdo:

hmmm. WTH

[05:58:31]

Beirdo:

WARNING: GPT (GUID Partition Table) detected on '/dev/sdf'! The util fdisk doesn't support GPT. Use GNU Parted.

[05:58:40]

Beirdo:

I thought I cleared those out!

[05:59:34]

CyberKnet:

You don't like GPT?

[05:59:36]

Beirdo:

of the 4 1TB drives, one doesn't have that.

[05:59:38]

Beirdo:

argh

[06:00:01]

Beirdo:

why would I want GPT?

[06:00:09]

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[06:01:24]

CyberKnet:

I dunno.

[06:01:27]

CyberKnet:

How cute is this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010

[06:01:33]

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[06:02:32]

gaurdro:

okay, reseatted the card and it didn't help, cleared out everything that could possibly be pushing on it and still no go. still works beautifully in windows. also, my pcie slot is blocked by the graphics card. so I'm stuck with pci

[06:04:11]

gaurdro:

CyberKnet, really cute, and they work decently well too.

[06:05:26]

xris:

knightr: might as well move here

[06:05:36]

Beirdo:

wonder if parted will like me ripping out GPT without killing my drive contents :)

[06:05:40]

** xris unofficially sets the topic to "beer is an OK topic" **

[06:05:46]

Beirdo:

Mmmm, beer

[06:05:54]

xris:

CyberKnet: long time no see/chat

[06:05:54]

nutron:

beer... I need vodka

[06:06:02]

Beirdo:

I had a Hop Bomb IPA at lunch

[06:06:09]

** gaurdro raises his glass. Prost! **

[06:06:26]

Beirdo:

not filtered at the end, cloudy as heck, but yummy

[06:06:29]

** xris looks forward to 160+ taps and "company picks up the tab" beer tomorrow afternoon **

[06:06:31]

knightr:

xris, good idea though it was kinda funny to be on the other forum and see no one complaining (not that we were doing it on purpose though...)

[06:06:41]

Beirdo:

tomorrow?

[06:06:41]

knightr:

s/forum/channel

[06:06:45]

Beirdo:

hmmm.

[06:06:52]

xris:

Beirdo: new-guy welcome + hello kevin

[06:07:00]

Beirdo:

yay!

[06:07:10]

Beirdo:

they included you guys too. glad to hear it

[06:07:17]

xris:

knightr: iamlindoro is out of town.. and no one is chatting.

[06:07:23]

Beirdo:

meet the beer!

[06:07:26]

xris:

Beirdo: we crashed the party. with gary's help

[06:07:33]

Beirdo:

fine by me

[06:07:52]

Beirdo:

Gary and Tim can fight over the bill :)

[06:07:54]

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[06:08:39]

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[06:08:57]

knightr:

xris, I'm not sure how I am supposed to decode your last comment...

[06:09:02]

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[06:10:12]

Beirdo:

YAY

[06:10:23]

Beirdo:

finally caught up on all the Scrubs recordings

[06:10:29]

xris:

knightr: Beirdo and I work together

[06:10:58]

knightr:

I meant the one about i am lindoro...

[06:11:09]

xris:

oh.. he's generally the one who polices on-topic discussion

[06:11:24]

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[06:11:40]

knightr:

that's what I thought you meant, just wanted to make sure... :)

[06:11:44]

Beirdo:

heh :)

[06:12:38]

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[06:12:38]

xris:

I see the need for on-topic discussion but it doesn't bother me if no one else is chatting

[06:13:10]

Beirdo:

Hmmm

[06:13:50]

knightr:

xris, I agree...

[06:14:11]

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[06:16:11]

banyan:

Hello! I have an ATI Radeon card running the Catalyst driver, connected via DVI to a Sony CRT HDTV and I have an overscan issue I can't seem to get rid of, wherein the edges of the desktop are not visible because they are beyond the physical size of the screen. Anyone have the slightest idea how to fix that? I've fiddled and so on but got nowhere.

[06:17:04]

Beirdo:

not sure how that's a mythtv issue

[06:17:15]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: because we use mythtv to fix it

[06:17:23]

Beirdo:

we do?

[06:17:27]

wagnerrp:

banyan: see the 'screen setup wizard' in the frontend options

[06:17:37]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: we downsize our own UI to fit

[06:17:41]

banyan:

It's something that comes up on the mythtv site, but the fixes on there only fix TV playback.

[06:17:42]

sphery:

banyan: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Overscan

[06:17:47]

CyberKnet:

xris: yeah, long time... though I've been around a bit more in the day time.

[06:17:48]

hednod:

Beirdo: you can tell mythtv to constrain itself within certain dimensions

[06:17:48]

Beirdo:

heh, ah right

[06:17:56]

CyberKnet:

xris: it all depends on my employer of the year, eh? :)

[06:18:41]

wagnerrp:

CyberKnet: not sure the purpose of such a small water cooling unit

[06:20:00]

banyan:

Yes, Myth can fix its playback and GUI to fit, but I'd rather the card stayed within the extents of the screen.

[06:20:03]

xris:

banyan: with my samsung the solution was to select the "PC" name for the dvi port in the TV settings.

[06:20:10]

xris:

totally undocumented feature

[06:20:16]

CyberKnet:

wagnerrp: I dunno. I saw it on an accidental click while moving to case fans.

[06:20:22]

Beirdo:

on the CRT ones, likely not much to do

[06:20:28]

banyan:

hm.

[06:20:38]

xris:

ah, missed CRT. yeah, not sure what to do there.

[06:20:39]

Beirdo:

something like that MIGHT work though

[06:20:53]

CyberKnet:

wagnerrp: I always thought with water cooling ... the bigger the radiator (and fan), the better.

[06:20:59]

xris:

I know nvidia has a way to adjust overscan down at the driver level. dunno about catalyst

[06:21:17]

xris:

CyberKnet: or just use a GIANT bucket of water and no need for radiator

[06:21:23]

Beirdo:

I think it did 6 years ago when I last used it

[06:21:31]

wagnerrp:

CyberKnet: exactly, the ONLY purpose of water cooling is to provide an efficient transport mechanism to get the heat somewhere you have space for a larger radiator

[06:21:32]

Beirdo:

xris: or an indoor pool :)

[06:21:46]

wagnerrp:

with such a small radiator, you may as well just strap it straight to the CPU

[06:21:58]

banyan:

I think there's supposed to be but nobody outright says how to get at it.

[06:22:19]

banyan:

Is there an ATI / catalyst channel? I can bother them with this.

[06:24:26]

CyberKnet:

xris: "Bucket" ... "Great Lakes" ... :)

[06:24:37]

xris:

you're over/up there now?

[06:24:43]

CyberKnet:

no

[06:24:46]

xris:

heh

[06:24:47]

CyberKnet:

it just seemed funny :)

[06:25:02]

xris:

should move back to the PNW so you can come enjoy my/kormoc's brewery

[06:25:39]

CyberKnet:

brewery as in brewhouse, or brewery as in homebrew?

[06:25:41]

Beirdo:

downtown Toronto has a chilling loop for downtown boilers/chillers that runs into Lake Ontario

[06:26:04]

knightr:

banyan, http://www.google.com/search?hl=nn&source . . . G=Google-s8k returns possibly interesting results but that seems to depend on which driver you use...

[06:26:53]

xris:

CyberKnet: http://wingmanbrewers.com/

[06:27:04]

xris:

started by my cousin and a few friends. they needed some cash so kormoc and I invested

[06:27:13]

banyan:

I will check it out! thanks. Is it the one that talks about using the tv-geometry argument? (I never got that to have any effrect whatsoever)

[06:27:17]

xris:

we're stuck in state/federal paperwork hell at the moment

[06:27:20]

banyan:

or any effect either.

[06:27:40]

CyberKnet:

pinup pale ale. :)

[06:27:43]

CyberKnet:

heh

[06:28:41]

CyberKnet:

I wonder what is paling that particular ale.

[06:28:58]

banyan:

It's amusing how many 'nerd types' are into home brewing. My home brew club is chock-a-block with engineers.

[06:29:08]

xris:

just a style... "generic craft beer" usually falls under the "pale ale" category

[06:29:28]

xris:

though this one is a bit darker than normal pales. something about the northest.. we like our beers to have flavor.

[06:29:50]

CyberKnet:

ugh. Why do 90% of case fans come with obnoxious LEDs now?

[06:29:52]

xris:

banyan: home brewing is having sort of a second rebirth.

[06:30:10]

nutron:

Are you all in the PNW?

[06:30:18]

CyberKnet:

I am in the midwest.

[06:30:21]

xris:

nutron: me, kormoc, beirdo are all in seattle

[06:30:23]

CyberKnet:

nowhere near the PNW.

[06:30:27]

xris:

CyberKnet *used* to be here.

[06:30:37]

nutron:

Ah.

[06:30:38]

Beirdo:

bum needs to move back here

[06:30:38]

CyberKnet:

xris: uh.... pacific rim would be closer.

[06:30:49]

xris:

CyberKnet: maybe I'm confusing you with someone else

[06:30:58]

** xris has a bad memory for IRC friends. ;) **

[06:30:58]

nutron:

Explains the sexy that is myth, has that grungy feel :P

[06:30:59]

Beirdo:

we need j-rod back too

[06:31:03]

CyberKnet:

maybe. I've only ever been Sydney and Tulsa :)

[06:31:11]

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[06:31:24]

xris:

nutron: isaac is somewhere in OH

[06:31:26]

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[06:31:32]

xris:

but we're pretty scattered.

[06:31:34]

Beirdo:

oHIo :)

[06:31:43]

xris:

HI is hawaii

[06:31:48]

** wagnerrp is almost in OH **

[06:31:50]

nutron:

I'm in the bc interior...

[06:32:04]

xris:

a few others in california. some in AU, UK, DE

[06:32:08]

Beirdo:

ooooh, a supplier of fine weed

[06:32:12]

nutron:

aye

[06:32:15]

xris:

lol

[06:32:27]

xris:

you're up by a cooper I need to talk to.

[06:32:40]

** xris has plans for barrel-aged beer **

[06:32:49]

nutron:

:o seriously?

[06:32:49]

Beirdo:

mmmm

[06:32:55]

nutron:

doesn't that get.. "funky"

[06:32:56]

nutron:

?

[06:33:03]

** nutron admits he has no idea. **

[06:33:25]

** banyan is in Calgary. **

[06:33:38]

Beirdo:

Calgary? You poor guy

[06:33:48]

knightr:

banyan, there are channels on Freenode if you use the RadeonHD (xf86-video-radeonhd) driver (#radeon and #radeonhd) and the fglrx (#ati) driver...

[06:33:52]

wagnerrp:

xris: do you use new or used barrels for that?

[06:34:13]

xris:

wagnerrp: depends on how much $$$ the brewery makes once we're legally allowed to brew.

[06:34:21]

xris:

and on the style.

[06:34:35]

wagnerrp:

not the flavor?

[06:34:36]

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[06:34:50]

nutron:

Tree brewing is here

[06:34:51]

xris:

new for flavor (e.g. oak aged porter), used for the oak itself (sour beers)

[06:34:57]

nutron:

I take tours here and there...

[06:35:00]

nutron:

to get drunk

[06:35:19]

wagnerrp:

i mean bourbon requires new charred barrels

[06:35:26]

xris:

bourbon is all about oak flavor

[06:35:29]

nutron:

on fridays...

[06:35:36]

wagnerrp:

but scotch, they pay to ship them all oversees for the used bourbon flavor

[06:35:38]

xris:

in fact, bourbon tastes like oak and not much else

[06:35:52]

Beirdo:

vanillin. mmmm

[06:35:53]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:35:58]

** xris prefers scotch aged in port/madeira casks.. (with bourbon tossed in) **

[06:36:12]

xris:

but scotch is also about used barrels that have less vanillin flavor

[06:36:44]

nutron:

holy crap... how about I sit here and pretend I know all there is about wine? =D

[06:36:55]

nutron:

chardonnay --- shit

[06:36:58]

nutron:

oops :)

[06:37:10]

** xris is a foodie. foodie-ism extends to alcohol **

[06:37:14]

Beirdo:

nah, just get durnk... and watch the language :)

[06:37:33]

Beirdo:

GPT this!

[06:37:34]

xris:

and belgian beers (particularly sours) are basically treated like wines.

[06:37:46]

** xris goes to pour another glass of temperanillo **

[06:38:07]

wagnerrp:

maddox had an amusing comment on winos

[06:38:09]

Beirdo:

now I gotta see if I can mess with the partition table without messing up the filesystem :)

[06:38:28]

Beirdo:

well, the first one, I'll transfer data off...

[06:38:33]

nutron:

Beirdo: I guess my french accent didn't make it through irc? :)

[06:38:52]

wagnerrp:

apparently someone on the radio was quoted as saying 'i used to drink merlot, but then i saw Sideways, so now i drink pino noir'

[06:39:36]

xris:

nutron: you can hang out with knightr and speak french.

[06:39:45]

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[06:39:47]

** xris dislikes most merlot **

[06:40:01]

nutron:

I don't know a single word of french... except for bonjorno?...

[06:40:04]

nutron:

no.. bonjour

[06:40:47]

wagnerrp:

of course everyone knows a nice chianti is the best thing to serve with human liver

[06:41:10]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:42:08]

xris:

wagnerrp: as long as it's with food. few italian wines hold up without food. heh

[06:42:36]

wagnerrp:

well human liver is food

[06:42:42]

xris:

exactly

[06:42:50]

** wagnerrp wonders if he can slather the reference on any thicker **

[06:42:57]

xris:

though as the (mostly) vegetarian I'll stay away from the liver

[06:43:00]

xris:

human or otherwise.

[06:43:25]

wagnerrp:

oof... a vegetarian foody

[06:43:47]

wagnerrp:

i guess that means you dont share kormoc's love of all things bacon

[06:44:36]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:44:37]

Beirdo:

I do

[06:44:38]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:44:50]

Beirdo:

although not to the same degree

[06:45:10]

wagnerrp:

my sister is a chef, and she used to know a waiter who would taunt the faux vegans

[06:45:16]

Beirdo:

and I do like a lot of vegetarian food too

[06:45:44]

wagnerrp:

the ones who would go into restaurants wanting meat-free food, without understanding that meant they couldnt eat /anything/ on the menu

[06:45:48]

Beirdo:

I was actually in the mood for falafel today, but I had a burger instead :)

[06:46:37]

Beirdo:

hehe. many a vegan-compatible place to be found here

[06:46:45]

xris:

wagnerrp: any chef who can't make something vegetarian doesn't deserve the title

[06:46:54]

** Beirdo is happily an omnivore **

[06:47:11]

xris:

but I'm at least smart enough to avoid places that would rather *not* cater to my dietary choices

[06:47:27]

xris:

grumble. wtf. castle didn't record properly

[06:47:37]

wagnerrp:

xris: things like using gelatin as a thickener

[06:47:48]

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[06:47:48]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[06:47:50]

Beirdo:

oh?

[06:47:54]

wagnerrp:

apparently some meat byproduct is used in common salt

[06:48:02]

xris:

wagnerrp: sugar

[06:48:08]

xris:

a lot of wines

[06:48:13]

wagnerrp:

all sorts of stuff that come from the supplier tainted by meat that you would never think of

[06:48:14]

xris:

very few good cheeses are vegetarian

[06:48:23]

** xris has a "don't ask don't tell" policy with cheese **

[06:48:43]

wagnerrp:

there were a /few/ things that were vegetarian on their menu

[06:48:59]

wagnerrp:

but he would just play games with people who would order something they thought was vegetarian, but wasnt

[06:49:04]

xris:

heh

[06:49:17]

xris:

yeah, can't blame people for being vegetarian but not knowing enough...

[06:49:23]

knightr:

nutron, bonjorno sound more like "buon giorno" which is Italian for Good day/hello... In French it's "Bonjour" (like you said the second time)...

[06:49:23]

wagnerrp:

just so he could see the horror on their faces when he explains to them why its not, and that they have been eating meat products for years

[06:49:37]

xris:

wagnerrp: I do that, too. heh

[06:49:48]

xris:

people should know what they eat. vegetarian or not.

[06:50:01]

wagnerrp:

xris: no, but you can mock vegans who think they are better than you for not eating meat but not knowing enough

[06:50:07]

cattelan is now known as cattelan_away

[06:50:11]

xris:

don't buy crappy meat. if you're going to buy/eat meat you should know where it came from. it'll taste better that way

[06:50:41]

** Beirdo also curses. Castle got borked here too **

[06:50:48]

xris:

wtf

[06:50:55]

Beirdo:

56MB for 50min of MPEG2.. I think not

[06:50:57]

xris:

wonder if the tv station had a glitch

[06:51:05]

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[06:51:05]

wagnerrp:

recorded just fine here

[06:51:09]

Beirdo:

mine's OTA

[06:51:10]

xris:

Beirdo: OTA?

[06:51:17]

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[06:51:17]

xris:

and mine's QAM

[06:51:19]

xris:

interesting

[06:51:29]

xris:

wagnerrp: Beirdo and I are on the same station, though

[06:51:30]

Beirdo:

but KOMO's sometimes problematic for my craptacular antenna setup

[06:51:52]

Beirdo:

KING was so bad I forced it to record via DirecTV

[06:51:53]

wagnerrp:

xris: yeah, but i got to watch it... :P

[06:52:01]

xris:

wagnerrp: you suck

[06:52:04]

Beirdo:

!salmon wagnerrp

[06:52:04]

** MythLogBot plants a salmon upside the head of wagnerrp on behalf of Beirdo... **

[06:52:08]

wagnerrp:

ive had my share of failed recordings recently, nice to see its not me this time

[06:52:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:52:12]

knightr:

wagnerrp, Beirdo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQX2kC1jUB8

[06:52:27]

xris:

I wonder why tv stations no longer show a second broadcast of new shows

[06:52:37]

Beirdo:

because they suck :)

[06:52:54]

Beirdo:

Ooooh, I am so in the mood for poutine

[06:53:46]

Beirdo:

knightr: YOU ARE EVIL! :)

[06:54:14]

wagnerrp:

why did they put in the hotdog bun?

[06:54:28]

Beirdo:

it has hotdog in it

[06:54:51]

wagnerrp:

but why the bun?

[06:55:04]

Beirdo:

heh, why not? :)

[06:55:09]

Beirdo:

that looks yummy

[06:55:32]

Beirdo:

something you'd get at a sugar shack in Northern Quebec, almost

[06:55:41]

wagnerrp:

and maple syrup does not greasy make

[06:56:24]

Beirdo:

nope, sticky :)

[06:56:31]

Beirdo:

but poutine... greasy makes

[06:56:57]

xris:

too bad fries are so hard to make at home

[06:57:03]

xris:

poutine would be great with mushroom gravy

[06:57:19]

Beirdo:

it would be OK :) Beef gravy's best though ;)

[06:57:36]

** xris could go to steelhead for lunch tomorrow **

[06:57:46]

xris:

good chili

[06:57:49]

** Beirdo was just pondering the same thing :) **

[06:58:18]

Beirdo:

I miss the deli place downtown Ottawa

[06:58:25]

CyberKnet:

home-made french fry casserole for dinner tonight is as close to a poutine as you can get here in the south.

[06:58:36]

Beirdo:

Dunn's Deli

[06:58:44]

CyberKnet:

fries, ground beef, brown gravy and cheese (but not cheese curds :|)

[06:59:10]

CyberKnet:

gack. 1am. I need to complete my newegg order and get to bed already.

[06:59:12]

knightr:

Beirdo, would you prefer that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz2SxGNy-Mw&am . . . &list=UL

[06:59:22]

Beirdo:

you sure you aren't partially Quebecois, CyberKnet? :)

[07:00:08]

CyberKnet:

Beirdo: Good food is good food, right?

[07:01:10]

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[07:01:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[07:01:28]

Beirdo:

knightr: OK that's just wrong

[07:01:59]

knightr:

What, you don't like the toppings? :)

[07:02:32]

wagnerrp:

have you ever had the baconator? its disappointing

[07:02:37]

xris:

knightr: http://www.thisiswhyyourefat.com/

[07:03:23]

Beirdo:

baconator is bleh

[07:03:54]

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[07:04:16]

Beirdo:

http://www.dunnsfamous.com/en_menu_before02.htm

[07:04:19]

Beirdo:

mmmmm

[07:04:30]

Beirdo:

Poutine Dunn's :)

[07:04:36]

wagnerrp:

is that? it cant be! a krispy kream bacon cheese burger?

[07:04:40]

CyberKnet:

I totally miss the Wendy's Cheddar Lovers Bacon Cheeseburger.

[07:04:45]

knightr:

http://zzzlist.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/krisp . . . onut-burger/

[07:04:51]

Beirdo:

poutine with smoked meat on top

[07:05:15]

Beirdo:

we used to go to Dunn's after drinking to excess

[07:06:28]

wagnerrp:

poutine just looks disgusting

[07:06:36]

Beirdo:

knightr: next time you get to Montreal, try some Dunn's :) the one dowtown Ottawa is great

[07:06:57]

nutron:

dunns in montreal... right before the peelers == the bomb

[07:07:34]

Beirdo:

nothing like a huge pile of poutine.. with smoked meat... and then some fried eggs

[07:07:58]

wagnerrp:

of course im sure its little different from chili cheese fries

[07:08:07]

Beirdo:

quite

[07:08:14]

Beirdo:

that's yummy too

[07:08:32]

CyberKnet:

speaking of food of odd proportions... http://www.spike.com/video/worlds-largest/2850988

[07:08:41]

Beirdo:

but fries with cheese curds and drowning in gravy.. Mmmmm.

[07:08:42]

nutron:

dude... meh I'm hungry

[07:09:37]

knightr:

Beirdo, I work in Montreal and Dunn's is pretty good... It has been a while since I last went there though...

[07:10:11]

Beirdo:

yummy :)

[07:10:31]

nutron:

Yeah it is pretty good

[07:11:02]

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[07:11:12]

Beirdo:

oooh, backend is idle

[07:11:17]

Beirdo:

let's mess with filesystems

[07:11:55]

knightr:

Talking of work I better bid you guys good night if I want to be able to wake up tomorrow morning...

[07:12:00]

knightr:

Good night!

[07:12:37]

Beirdo:

night :)

[07:12:38]

nutron:

g'nite

[07:14:18]

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[07:14:40]

Beirdo:

Alberta doesn't suck... but Calgary does....

[07:14:53]

Beirdo:

why do I have that song looping in my head?

[07:15:25]

wagnerrp:

because youre canadian?

[07:15:32]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:15:36]

Beirdo:

must be

[07:15:39]

wagnerrp:

around here, we get stuff like 'cleveland rocks' stuck in our heads

[07:15:55]

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[07:16:13]

Beirdo:

whoever wrote that hasn't been to Cleveland

[07:16:39]

wagnerrp:

hehe

[07:18:37]

Beirdo:

here. let me pollute yer brain.

[07:18:43]

Beirdo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRjurRdep_Q

[07:18:50]

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[07:18:56]

wagnerrp:

i think id rather not...

[07:19:08]

Beirdo:

it's funny, just watch it :)

[07:20:11]

Beirdo:

it's a very Canadian sucks

[07:20:16]

Beirdo:

song rather :)

[07:21:18]

Beirdo:

a very Edmonton-based Canadian song

[07:21:41]

nutron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjiwBwBL4Qo

[07:21:43]

nutron:

my fav

[07:22:45]

Beirdo:

it's in English.

[07:22:46]

Beirdo:

bah

[07:23:08]

Beirdo:

sorry, but I still sing the national anthem... in the original... French.

[07:23:16]

nutron:

heh

[07:23:22]

nutron:

it's a good tune

[07:23:34]

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[07:24:18]

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[07:25:45]

Beirdo:

that an old Nordiques had?

[07:25:48]

Beirdo:

hat...

[07:25:56]

nutron:

in the music vid?

[07:26:01]

Beirdo:

yeah

[07:26:18]

nutron:

aye

[07:26:20]

wagnerrp:

that guy thinks hes from new york

[07:26:34]

Beirdo:

heh.

[07:27:01]

nutron:

click the quit while you're ahead vid

[07:27:03]

nutron:

that's ny

[07:27:25]

Beirdo:

come ON, finish transferring that 100G

[07:27:27]

Beirdo:

:)

[07:27:42]

wagnerrp:

i did long ago

[07:28:07]

Beirdo:

heh, I'm clearing one of the drives to repartition in parted... relabel, really

[07:28:24]

Beirdo:

I expect the FS will be fine as I intend to put it back the way it was

[07:28:30]

Beirdo:

but without GPT

[07:28:42]

wagnerrp:

why no gpt?

[07:28:45]

nutron:

part surgery.. fun

[07:28:49]

Beirdo:

I have no need for it

[07:29:01]

Beirdo:

and fdisk doesn't care for it

[07:29:01]

wagnerrp:

can you use it?

[07:29:11]

wagnerrp:

i mean does the board support it?

[07:29:32]

Beirdo:

as far as I can tell, it's not a boot drive anyways

[07:30:01]

Beirdo:

I just don't like extra cruft hanging around for no reason

[07:30:04]

wagnerrp:

i cant manage ZFS boot since apparently the tools only work on GPT disks

[07:30:13]

wagnerrp:

and my system cant handle them

[07:30:17]

Beirdo:

ick

[07:30:23]

Beirdo:

that's odd

[07:30:33]

Beirdo:

as Solaris 10 is listed as not supporting GPT

[07:30:54]

wagnerrp:

well its the bootloader that is the question

[07:31:07]

wagnerrp:

and FBSD uses a completely different one from solaris

[07:31:54]

wagnerrp:

basically, it just means i need a minimal boot partition to start a normal boot, mount the mirror, and pivot into it

[07:33:36]

nutron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S_R13jV11Q

[07:33:44]

nutron:

i'm in a music mood :/

[07:34:28]

nutron:

*musical

[07:34:41]

nutron:

be happy i'm not linking nickelback

[07:34:59]

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[07:35:05]

wagnerrp:

you would only be able to do it once

[07:35:16]

nutron:

=D

[07:35:17]

nutron:

lol

[07:35:37]

wagnerrp:

theyve only got the one song

[07:35:48]

nutron:

with different lyrics right? :)

[07:36:04]

wagnerrp:

similar theme, all the same chords

[07:36:09]

wagnerrp:

they just mix up the words a bit

[07:36:20]

nutron:

got any fav vids?

[07:38:05]

nutron:

robot unicorn attack?

[07:38:23]

wagnerrp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNH8L0omuQE

[07:38:49]

nutron:

lol this should be good

[07:39:33]

nutron:

http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-atta . . . ne-game.html

[07:40:16]

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[07:41:35]

nutron:

heh.. I'm gonna shoot ya..

[07:41:41]

nutron:

:)

[07:45:23]

nutron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMeUPFjQHc ok i'm done :)

[07:47:34]

Beirdo:

there we go

[07:47:37]

Beirdo:

no more GPT

[07:47:53]

nutron:

how'd you end up with it there in the first place?

[07:47:55]

Beirdo:

parted, used mktable -> msdos

[07:48:09]

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[07:48:11]

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[07:48:24]

Beirdo:

went into fdisk, adjusted geometry to match the other 3 drives, recreate the fs partition to match...

[07:48:28]

wagnerrp:

thermal detonators! get back!!

[07:48:28]

Beirdo:

fsck, remount

[07:48:38]

Beirdo:

nutron: second-hand drives :)

[07:48:39]

nutron:

hah :)

[07:48:42]

nutron:

ahh

[07:49:01]

nutron:

let's play robot unicorn attack

[07:49:18]

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[07:49:37]

Beirdo:

I just love doing partition surgery

[07:50:01]

Beirdo:

so now my drives are at... 1%, 11%, 22%, 39%

[07:50:03]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:50:19]

nutron:

1tb's?

[07:50:21]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: i understand

[07:50:27]

Beirdo:

yep

[07:50:38]

wagnerrp:

ive got a wife and kids too, but you dont see me out here stealing imperial droids do ya?

[07:50:53]

Beirdo:

ummm

[07:51:01]

nutron:

:P the vid quality was a little.. low

[07:51:12]

wagnerrp:

thats becasue its garbage youtub

[07:51:18]

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[07:51:42]

nutron:

aye omg I can't stop listening to always

[07:52:07]

nutron:

am I the last person on the internet to discover this meme?

[07:52:14]

wagnerrp:

?

[07:52:20]

wagnerrp:

what meme?

[07:52:21]

Beirdo:

hehh

[07:52:23]

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[07:52:35]

nutron:

http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-atta . . . ne-game.html try that for 2 mins

[07:52:52]

nutron:

and everything gets.. a little more fruity

[07:52:55]

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[07:52:58]

nutron:

I feel more .. happy

[07:53:04]

wagnerrp:

does something special happen after two minutes?

[07:53:27]

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[07:53:30]

nutron:

... no you just get sucked in

[07:53:34]

Beirdo:

probably stab yourself in the heart for the sweet release

[07:53:52]

nutron:

lol!!!

[07:53:54]

nutron:

hah

[07:54:13]

nutron:

c'mon erasure was the bomb

[07:54:15]

wagnerrp:

was that a dolphin?

[07:54:41]

nutron:

where?

[07:54:42]

Beirdo:

I think I'll head for bed

[07:54:53]

nutron:

aye i should think about going home heh

[07:54:55]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: isn't it some insane time in the morning there? :)

[07:55:08]

wagnerrp:

almost 3am

[07:55:12]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[07:55:38]

wagnerrp:

stupid flash, keeps seizing up

[07:55:52]

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[07:56:01]

nutron:

oh lol dolphins in your dream sequence yeah heh

[07:56:12]

nutron:

those were a bunch of dolphins

[07:58:08]

Beirdo:

but before bed... some Queen concert footage from 2008

[07:58:16]

Beirdo:

with Paul Rodgers singing, apparently

[07:58:22]

nutron:

:o what?

[07:58:32]

Beirdo:

certainly no Freddie Mercury

[07:58:35]

nutron:

queen... died in 1991

[07:59:26]

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[07:59:26]

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[07:59:29]

nutron:

I think wagnerrp is dashing like a madman

[07:59:35]

Beirdo:

no

[07:59:42]

Beirdo:

Freddie died in 1991

[08:00:01]

nutron:

yeah exactly =(

[08:00:04]

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[08:00:04]

Beirdo:

the rest of the band has toured wtih Rodgers as a frontman... recently

[08:00:12]

nutron:

wow where have I been?

[08:00:17]

nutron:

That's news to me

[08:00:26]

Beirdo:

me too. :)

[08:00:46]

Beirdo:

I told myth to record all DIRECTV Concert Series... and here it is

[08:00:51]

nutron:

heh nice

[08:01:10]

nutron:

I was contemplating telling it to record all .. sitcoms

[08:01:11]

Beirdo:

and dupes STILL aren't working on the power rule even though the programids do match

[08:01:17]

Beirdo:

something to tweak later

[08:01:46]

Beirdo:

wonder if Brian May is still using a penny or whatever coin it was he used to use instead of a pick

[08:02:55]

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[08:03:22]

nutron:

sixpence

[08:03:30]

nutron:

<-- can google

[08:04:13]

Beirdo:

they haven't shown any good guitar shots from a useful angle

[08:04:20]

Beirdo:

until just there

[08:04:24]

Beirdo:

where's my remote

[08:04:39]

Beirdo:

yup

[08:04:42]

sphery:

Beirdo: Dup matching isn't working? It should work--to the point it should be impossible to make it not work. Only way I can see to make it not work is if title (of a specific episode) changes. Or it could be disabled with Duplicate check method of None...

[08:04:43]

Beirdo:

that's a coin

[08:05:00]

nutron:

heh cool

[08:05:06]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[08:05:12]

Beirdo:

let me look

[08:05:48]

Beirdo:

Duplicate check is set to Description

[08:06:00]

Beirdo:

ALL I want it to check is the ProgramID

[08:06:12]

Beirdo:

as those seem to be good

[08:06:12]

sphery:

if both have programid, that's what it will check

[08:06:21]

sphery:

they have the identical title, too?

[08:06:26]

Beirdo:

yes

[08:06:33]

Beirdo:

the title is just the band name

[08:06:41]

nutron:

alright guys g'night.. wagnerrp you can thank me later =)

[08:07:19]

Beirdo:

something for us to dig into later if ya wish

[08:07:25]

Beirdo:

I can deal with it for now

[08:07:45]

sphery:

might need to call in the big guns... gigem

[08:07:48]

Beirdo:

at 2pm tomorrow, it will record Yes for the 3rd time

[08:08:33]

sphery:

can you pastebin a mythbackend -v important,general,schedule --printsched ?

[08:08:47]

Beirdo:

oh good god :)

[08:08:54]

sphery:

looking at ProgramInfo::IsSameProgram()

[08:08:55]

Beirdo:

that will be HUGE :)

[08:09:00]

Beirdo:

one sec

[08:09:11]

sphery:

you are doing an any/all rule, right?

[08:09:18]

Beirdo:

yes

[08:09:33]

Beirdo:

it's only ever on one channel though

[08:09:52]

sphery:

findid should only have an effect if it's a find rule...

[08:09:57]

sphery:

title has to match

[08:10:03]

sphery:

(title--not subtitle)

[08:10:14]

Beirdo:

there is no subtitle at all

[08:10:40]

sphery:

does programid end with 0000?

[08:10:42]

Beirdo:

now we wait for this spew to end

[08:10:44]

Beirdo:

yes

[08:10:49]

Beirdo:

I believe so

[08:10:55]

sphery:

what exactly is the programid?

[08:11:10]

sphery:

if it's treating it as a generic, it would record them all every time

[08:11:17]

Beirdo:

one sec

[08:12:55]

Beirdo:

for Yes: SH013114120000

[08:13:01]

Beirdo:

and it's markes as generic

[08:13:07]

sphery:

yeah, that's generic

[08:13:13]

sphery:

SH*0000 = generic

[08:13:26]

sphery:

meaning the listings say it has no specific episode information

[08:13:41]

sphery:

so, cancel that --printsched request :)

[08:13:45]

sphery:

sorry for the extra work

[08:13:47]

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[08:13:59]

Beirdo:

for what I'm watching now: SH012247740000

[08:14:06]

sphery:

things you could do include unsetting generic...

[08:14:17]

sphery:

getting TMS to not mark it a SH*0000?

[08:14:22]

Beirdo:

they are set as generic, but each concert is a specific programid

[08:14:30]

sphery:

might be worth asking Robert Eden about that?

[08:14:47]

Beirdo:

show type is series

[08:14:51]

sphery:

or doing dup matching in the power rule

[08:15:04]

Beirdo:

and each concert has its own seriesid

[08:15:11]

Beirdo:

care to share how to do that?

[08:15:22]

Beirdo:

when I tried, my brain was too fried to get it right :)

[08:15:36]

sphery:

yeah, if show type was something other than series, endsWith("0000") wouldn't matter

[08:16:05]

sphery:

You'll need a join

[08:16:07]

Beirdo:

Paul Rodgers is not bad as a singer... but no Freddie

[08:16:16]

Beirdo:

and likely not as much of a flamer either

[08:16:45]

Beirdo:

whoah

[08:16:57]

Beirdo:

Brian May has a PhD in astrophysics

[08:17:09]

Beirdo:

and is Chancellor of a university

[08:17:21]

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[08:18:17]

Beirdo:

anyways, of course I need a join

[08:18:32]

wagnerrp:

wait... what?

[08:18:35]

Beirdo:

but for the life of me I couldn't dredge out an appropriate one :)

[08:18:49]

Beirdo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_May

[08:18:54]

Beirdo:

read for yourself :)

[08:19:12]

Beirdo:

not only is he an excellent guitarist, but he's frickin smart too

[08:19:30]

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[08:20:36]

sphery:

heh, does he go by the name Buckaroo Banzai?

[08:21:11]

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[08:21:13]

wagnerrp:

if this rock thing doesnt pan out, at least hes got astrophysics

[08:21:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:21:29]

Beirdo:

yeah, really

[08:23:24]

sphery:

OK, it's late, so I'm having a hard time getting all the way where I want to be, but I think the approach you'll want to take is similar to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/25056 (but with oldrecorded)

[08:23:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: for what its worth, Buckaroo Banzai is a PhD in his own right

[08:23:35]

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[08:24:44]

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[08:24:50]

Beirdo:

sphery: hmmm.

[08:25:44]

Beirdo:

my brain's too drained to convert that to something applicable

[08:25:53]

Beirdo:

perhaps when more awake :)

[08:25:55]

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[08:26:30]

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[08:26:37]

Beirdo:

I think I'd need to join program with recordedprogram on programid match, but with recordedprogrem.starttime null

[08:27:25]

sphery:

you shouldn't need recordedprogram for this one since you have programid in program and oldrecorded

[08:27:33]

sphery:

that one just uses recordedprogram for the hdtv field

[08:27:38]

Beirdo:

k

[08:27:51]

Beirdo:

so what does that leave?

[08:28:15]

Beirdo:

join program and oldrecorded then?

[08:28:21]

sphery:

what are you using for the rule match, now?

[08:28:41]

sphery:

yeah, join program and oldrecorded--by some criteria like you're using for your rule match

[08:28:53]

sphery:

as a left outer join, I think

[08:29:12]

sphery:

such that you want to record where oldrecorded.programid is NULL?

[08:29:21]

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[08:29:21]

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[08:29:22]

Beirdo:

my rule match is program.description like '%DIRECTV Concert Series%'

[08:29:28]

Beirdo:

aye

[08:29:51]

sphery:

and you said subtitle is empty... :(

[08:29:55]

Beirdo:

yep

[08:30:00]

sphery:

but you said each has a distinct programid?

[08:30:07]

Beirdo:

so far

[08:30:30]

sphery:

so, maybe it's not so hard...

[08:31:06]

sphery:

join where "program.programid = oldrecorded.programid" and only record where oldrecorded.programid is NULL

[08:31:37]

Beirdo:

yeah, but due to how it loads... I have to do this directly in mysql, I think

[08:32:02]

Beirdo:

or program as a.

[08:32:18]

Beirdo:

as program ain't at the end of the premade portion

[08:32:26]

Beirdo:

let me try this

[08:33:41]

sphery:

OK, I thought it was going to be easy, but I can't figure out how to put them together

[08:33:49]

Beirdo:

gimme a se

[08:34:02]

sphery:

your best bet for editing the rule is MythWeb

[08:34:12]

Beirdo:

not really

[08:34:22]

Beirdo:

it doesn't give access to the subtitle field

[08:34:29]

Beirdo:

where the joins go

[08:34:40]

Beirdo:

oh

[08:34:43]

Beirdo:

duh

[08:34:46]

Beirdo:

Additional Tables

[08:34:47]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:35:06]

sphery:

the custom rule editor is mostly nonfunc if you have to actually type into the description field because of the lack of multiline edit

[08:35:09]

sphery:

yeah

[08:35:21]

sphery:

had to load up one of my rules to see what it's called :)

[08:35:32]

sphery:

my Nova (Re-record in HDTV) rule, :)

[08:35:33]

Beirdo:

OK, , program as a left join recorded as b on a.programid = b.programid

[08:35:43]

Beirdo:

program.description like "%DIRECTV Concert Series%" and program.programid = a.programid and b.starttime is NULL

[08:35:48]

sphery:

program is already included by default

[08:35:54]

sphery:

you only need oldrecorded as additional table

[08:36:01]

Beirdo:

yeah, but I can't join without it

[08:36:12]

Beirdo:

2010-11–09 00:35:34.208 Scheduled 1878 items in 94.7 = 5.48 match + 89.22 place

[08:36:16]

sphery:

pretty sure program is the table before the ,

[08:36:16]

Beirdo:

ugh!

[08:36:50]

Beirdo:

seems to work

[08:37:08]

Beirdo:

frigging slow though

[08:37:49]

sphery:

try just "left join recorded as b on program.programid = b.programid"

[08:37:50]

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[08:37:57]

sphery:

actually, space before left

[08:38:04]

sphery:

" left join recorded as b on program.programid = b.programid"

[08:38:29]

sphery:

I think you're joining program to program

[08:38:32]

sphery:

which will make a huge set

[08:39:51]

Beirdo:

mythweb INSISTS on prepending a dang ,

[08:39:59]

sphery:

that sucks

[08:40:15]

sphery:

wonder if the frontend editor does?

[08:40:25]

sphery:

might have to use that for subtitle edit... :(

[08:40:48]

sphery:

if the frontend editor doesn't, we should fix mythweb

[08:41:03]

sphery:

I understand the idea behind it, but...

[08:41:04]

Beirdo:

trying with phpmyadmin

[08:41:11]

Beirdo:

2010-11–09 00:40:56.472 Scheduled 1877 items in 12.4 = 2.44 match + 9.97 place

[08:41:14]

Beirdo:

OK....

[08:41:28]

Beirdo:

left join recorded as b on program.programid = b.programid

[08:41:28]

sphery:

basically double the times you were quoting before?

[08:41:38]

Beirdo:

program.description like "%DIRECTV Concert Series%" and b.starttime is NULL

[08:41:50]

Beirdo:

a little under, yeah

[08:41:55]

sphery:

wow

[08:42:09]

sphery:

yeah, the ideal solution is to get TMS to fix the data

[08:42:29]

Beirdo:

but MUCH better than 90s

[08:42:38]

Beirdo:

and it does seem to be workin

[08:42:46]

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[08:43:04]

Beirdo:

I'd rather see that as Title: DIRECTV Concert Series, Subtitle: bandname

[08:43:11]

Beirdo:

then it's bloody simple

[08:43:16]

sphery:

unfotunately, it looks like even if you manually edit program.generic after mfdb, it will still treat it as a generic

[08:43:37]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:43:39]

sphery:

the program.generic field is just a cheat for optimizing the actual scheduler run

[08:43:51]

sphery:

I highly recommend talking with Robert E.

[08:44:00]

Beirdo:

if I see him around :)

[08:44:06]

sphery:

xr is can get you high priority service :)

[08:44:13]

Beirdo:

aye :)

[08:44:20]

Beirdo:

I'll whine at him tomorrow :)

[08:44:21]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:44:24]

sphery:

might cost you a nice bottle of scotch or something :)

[08:44:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:45:01]

sphery:

IMHO, those shows should either not be category type series or should not end with 0000

[08:45:06]

sphery:

make them all 0001

[08:45:07]

Beirdo:

thanks for the help there.

[08:45:10]

sphery:

then it would all work

[08:45:15]

Beirdo:

yeah, I could do that

[08:45:21]

sphery:

thank you for the late-night debugging

[08:45:28]

sphery:

I had to know why

[08:45:35]

sphery:

wouldn't have been able to sleep...

[08:45:35]

Beirdo:

we need a "pre-mfd" script hook

[08:45:44]

sphery:

oh, yeah, you could do that

[08:45:51]

sphery:

though it would be a post-mfdb, right?

[08:45:58]

sphery:

otherwise, mfdb will change them again

[08:46:01]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:46:07]

Beirdo:

that's what I meant

[08:46:09]

Beirdo:

post-

[08:46:11]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[08:46:11]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV_System_Events mythfilldatabase ran

[08:46:16]

sphery:

looks like you have it :)

[08:46:20]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[08:46:29]

Beirdo:

well, something to tweak with

[08:46:55]

Beirdo:

I could even redo the title/subtitle to how I want it

[08:47:06]

Beirdo:

and let a "normal" recording rule hit it too

[08:47:31]

Beirdo:

that and tweak the programid

[08:47:44]

sphery:

set one up on the mbe and just do a UPDATE program SET programid = CONCAT(programid, 'A') WHERE program.description LIKE "%DIRECTV Concert Series%";

[08:47:47]

sphery:

and, yeah, that too

[08:48:08]

Beirdo:

yeah, something to look at... tomorrow :)

[08:48:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:48:18]

sphery:

I'd recommend just adding to the programid to make it non-standard length so that they're easier to modify later if TMS fixes things on their end

[08:48:30]

Beirdo:

got a bunch of H.264 concert caps though

[08:48:44]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:48:47]

sphery:

and it will be nice to have the title/subtitle fixed

[08:49:00]

Beirdo:

nice to have all the concerts sorting together

[08:49:10]

sphery:

anyway, my suggestion for TMS is to make them SH*0001 programids

[08:49:43]

Beirdo:

that would be nice

[08:49:47]

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[08:49:52]

sphery:

although if DirecTV has multiple (different) "Queen" episodes or whatever, then the way they're doing it is right (though annoying)

[08:49:55]

Beirdo:

I don't need 10 copies a week :)

[08:50:03]

Beirdo:

these are repeats

[08:50:03]

sphery:

heh

[08:50:12]

Beirdo:

same original record date

[08:50:12]

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[08:50:19]

Beirdo:

same description

[08:50:37]

Beirdo:

they are identical, but with "generic" programids

[08:50:45]

sphery:

yeah, and the funny thing is that because these are generics, it would have recorded all of them even if you used a normal/non-power recording rule

[08:50:58]

Beirdo:

yeah

[08:51:04]

sphery:

i.e. every generic matching any rule is always recorded

[08:51:07]

Beirdo:

if the title/subtitle worked

[08:51:19]

sphery:

and if you did an exclude generics filter, none would ever record on that rule :)

[08:51:22]

sphery:

so catch 22

[08:51:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:51:38]

Beirdo:

non-intuitive data there

[08:51:38]

sphery:

new-episodes only /might/ work

[08:51:52]

sphery:

or exclude repeats

[08:52:06]

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[08:52:06]

sphery:

though it wouldn't let you record repeats that are new to you

[08:52:13]

Beirdo:

new eps would only catch things recorded recently

[08:52:32]

Beirdo:

and would still likely catch every one

[08:52:33]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:52:48]

sphery:

yeah, true

[08:53:02]

Beirdo:

half of this crap is Country, BTW

[08:53:03]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:53:06]

sphery:

so it would have to be first-runs, too or something

[08:53:10]

sphery:

heh

[08:53:16]

Beirdo:

Diamond Rio, Little Big Town...

[08:53:23]

Beirdo:

Craig Morgan

[08:53:37]

Beirdo:

oooh, and Korn

[08:53:38]

Beirdo:

heh

[08:53:43]

Beirdo:

just for some variety

[08:53:45]

sphery:

you could have your post-mfdb tweak blacklist some groups :)

[08:53:54]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:54:08]

sphery:

then again, a NEVER RECORD would work, too

[08:54:13]

Beirdo:

and description not like '%country%'

[08:54:15]

sphery:

er, Never Record

[08:54:20]

sphery:

sorry for yelling :)

[08:54:39]

Beirdo:

what, no "Another One Bites The Dust"?!@

[08:54:49]

Beirdo:

shame on you lazy brits

[08:54:51]

sphery:

"The best hard rock band this country has ever produced."

[08:54:56]

sphery:

d'oh, missed that one!

[08:55:20]

Beirdo:

got some Iron Maiden

[08:55:39]

sphery:

I. Ron Maiden, "In the Garden of Eden"

[08:55:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:55:51]

Beirdo:

I. Ron Butterfly

[08:55:55]

Beirdo:

:)

[08:55:59]

sphery:

heh

[08:56:08]

Beirdo:

and that's a really long song

[08:56:18]

Beirdo:

I need to find my Iron Butterfly CD

[08:56:43]

Beirdo:

the song (the original, not the Simpsons version) is like 16min long

[08:56:52]

sphery:

I got them confused

[08:56:54]

Beirdo:

long long pipe organ solo in the middle

[08:57:05]

sphery:

yeah, that's why the organist nearly died

[08:57:12]

Beirdo:

:)

[08:57:29]

Beirdo:

"Hey Marge, remember when we used to make out to this hymn?"

[08:57:31]

Beirdo:

hehe

[08:57:49]

sphery:

heh

[08:57:56]

sphery:

that was an awesome episode

[08:58:01]

Beirdo:

that it was

[08:59:52]

sphery:

funny thing is that this season of Supernatural is focused around on of the brothers having lost his soul

[09:00:11]

sphery:

though automatic doors still open for him

[09:00:36]

wagnerrp:

hes still warm, isnt he?

[09:00:53]

sphery:

well, they didn't work for Bart when he sold his soul

[09:01:05]

wagnerrp:

bart never lost his soul

[09:01:16]

wagnerrp:

it was all in his head

[09:01:16]

sphery:

he sold it to Milhouse--I saw the paper

[09:02:47]

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[09:04:51]

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[09:08:21]

Beirdo:

hehe

[09:08:33]

Beirdo:

anyways, bed is beckoning

[09:08:36]

Beirdo:

and...

[09:08:42]

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[09:08:43]

Beirdo:

no Scrubs left on the backend :)

[09:08:47]

Beirdo:

took long enough

[09:09:14]

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[09:10:45]

Beirdo:

sphery: thanks again for the guidance. At least now I won't have an unbearable number of repeat concerts :)

[09:11:04]

sphery:

heh, enjoy

[09:11:13]

sphery:

just reading your e-mail on the list

[09:11:32]

Beirdo:

and I'll put in the event stuff tomorrow to tweak my programids, etc

[09:11:53]

sphery:

cool

[09:11:59]

sphery:

please let me know how it goes

[09:12:06]

Beirdo:

sure, will do

[09:12:21]

Beirdo:

I would still rather get it fixed upstream, of course

[09:13:09]

Beirdo:

Oooh

[09:13:31]

Beirdo:

Lindsey Buckingham Live at the Bass Performance Hall

[09:13:33]

Beirdo:

yoink

[09:14:21]

Beirdo:

guitarist for Fleetwood Mac, IIRC

[09:15:28]

Beirdo:

did a search for music specials

[09:15:35]

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[09:16:48]

Beirdo:

OK, I need another power rule

[09:16:56]

Beirdo:

all music specials on HDNet

[09:18:05]

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[09:20:16]

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[09:20:23]

Beirdo:

and done

[09:20:27]

Beirdo:

bedtime :)

[09:28:53]

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[14:42:02]

waza-ari:

Hey all, how can i enable digital sound passthrough for MythVideo? I have some sources which definitly have DTS Sound, but my receiver always gets DolbyD Data. Why?

[14:44:42]

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[15:03:26]

nero:

I used to be on this channel quite a bit (long ago), and recall that there were a few people quite knowledgable about diskless booting w/ubuntu. Any of those folks happen to be around (this has nothing to do with MythTV, but I am getting quite desperate).

[15:07:19]

waza-ari:

Anyway, i got DTS working now. Anyone can tell me, how to disable this "Upmixer" by default? "upmixing Stereo 5.1" in General config is disabled...

[15:14:37]

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CyberKnet:

ugh. my upstart script is not kicking my FreeSwitch instance on at the right time.

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CyberKnet:

And fixed that.

[16:07:38]

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[16:23:37]

flexy:

Watching livetv I get "video frame buffering failed too many times." error, maybe 1–4 times a day. Never when watching recordings. It also happens with different mobo/memory/cpu platform. I found no active bugs with this error message. I'm using release-0.24-fixes version 27143. Also get a black/dark screen during live-tv for minutes and fe log shows following line over and over again: Player(2): Timed out waiting for free video buffers

[16:24:31]

flexy:

I'm using vdpau

[16:25:24]

flexy:

should I make a bug report?

[16:28:24]

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[16:31:18]

flexy:

nvidia drivers is from jya repo, version 195.36.24, ubuntu 10.04 as distro

[16:32:51]

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[16:37:49]

noaXess_kubuntu:

hi there

[16:38:27]

noaXess_kubuntu:

if i watchlivetiv and press I i can't see any information, just unknown. on each channel.. in the tv-guide i see all informtion, any hint?

[16:38:52]

wagnerrp:

then you are using different channels

[16:39:22]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: check that in mythtv-setup in the channel editor?

[16:39:43]

noaXess_kubuntu:

i needed to crat new channel list from tv_grabber

[16:40:13]

noaXess_kubuntu:

sorry, bad english..

[16:40:22]

wagnerrp:

you have one set of channels you are seeing in the guide, another you are accessing with livetv

[16:40:27]

wagnerrp:

perhaps you have two tuners

[16:40:36]

noaXess_kubuntu:

three

[16:40:37]

wagnerrp:

and the channels with data are mapped to the second tuner

[16:40:52]

wagnerrp:

while the first tuner and its 'unknown' channels gets picked up for livetv

[16:41:10]

noaXess_kubuntu:

what to do?

[16:42:07]

wagnerrp:

fix your channels

[16:42:13]

wagnerrp:

are these all the same type of tuner?

[16:42:24]

wagnerrp:

like all DVB-T or all DVB-C?

[16:43:32]

noaXess_kubuntu:

yes same typ of tuner

[16:43:35]

noaXess_kubuntu:

dvb-c

[16:43:50]

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[16:43:54]

wagnerrp:

so they are connected to the same source?

[16:44:10]

wagnerrp:

in mythtv-setup, they should all be mapped to a single 'Video Source'

[16:44:54]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: yes they are all mapped to the same source

[16:45:22]

wagnerrp:

then you have a bunch of channels in your lineup with no xmltvid

[16:45:51]

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[16:45:54]

noaXess_kubuntu:

i have edited each one.. and setup the right xmltvid... mythfilldatabase works fine for that.. but.. as i said before, no information on livetv

[16:46:08]

noaXess_kubuntu:

if i chanche the tuner on livetv, you mean then i have information?

[16:47:07]

wagnerrp:

if theyre all using the same source, they would all behave the same

[16:47:15]

wagnerrp:

if you have information in the guide, but not in livetv

[16:47:22]

wagnerrp:

then you have duplicate channels

[16:47:34]

wagnerrp:

theres no other way that could happen

[16:48:45]

flexy:

I also have 3 dvb-c cards, with one card having paycard slot. I currently have setup two sources, one with FTA channels, another pay channels. paycard is using the source with pay channels. Could I change the setup so that I only have one source with all of the channels and paycardless dvb-c cards would only try to show FTA channels?

[16:50:07]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: need i remove the doubled channels.. have just make them not visible..

[16:50:34]

wagnerrp:

flexy: no, you need to keep separate sources for that

[16:50:55]

wagnerrp:

noaXess_kubuntu: you said you pulled a new channels from your 'tv_grabber'?

[16:51:17]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: yes..

[16:51:37]

wagnerrp:

as in some script populated your digital channels, not the scanner?

[16:51:39]

flexy:

wagnerrp: OK, so no easy way to get the dvb card with paycard to also show FTA channels. That was the idea behind thinking about having only one source...

[16:51:43]

noaXess_kubuntu:

cause tv_search_ch changed and i needed to get latest version from xmltv

[16:51:45]

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[16:52:09]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: i think.. doesn't make a new scan after new tv_grabber finisched

[16:52:18]

wagnerrp:

its very likely that your guide scraper does not have sufficient information to create a digital channel

[16:52:26]

wagnerrp:

meaning the channels it created are unusable by mythtv

[16:53:06]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: but i haved edited the new channels that came from tv_grabber with the same data as the old one has.. only xmltvid is from the grabber

[16:53:44]

noaXess_kubuntu:

whats the best way to fix that?.. create all sources and channels againg

[16:55:31]

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[16:55:35]

flexy:

you would have to start by deleting every channel first, I think

[16:55:35]

wagnerrp:

is there a 'delete all channels' option in the channel editor?

[16:56:15]

wagnerrp:

delete all the channels, do a channel scan from mythtv-setup, and individually add in the xmltvids for your scanned channels

[16:56:59]

noaXess_kubuntu:

wagnerrp: ok... lot fo work.. but.. i think.. i need to... if there is no other way..

[16:58:17]

flexy:

wagnerrp: I asked earlier about livetv and waiting for free video buffers. Can you scroll back and see if you have a suggestion?

[16:58:28]

wagnerrp:

flexy: none

[16:59:01]

flexy:

file a bug report?

[16:59:03]

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[16:59:40]

wagnerrp:

dont know what might be causing that to know if its a valid bug

[17:01:15]

flexy:

right. I've been having this issue for quite some time. Been using trunk until recently when I changed to new release candidate

[17:01:31]

flexy:

did not change a thing...

[17:01:32]

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[17:11:08]

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[17:11:17]

sphery:

heh, another user announcing to the -dev list that he got a new mobile phone

[17:12:05]

flexy:

was it a 1337 mobile? :)

[17:12:18]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/459033#459033

[17:13:47]

flexy:

aah, not mentioned. :)

[17:14:08]

sphery:

flexy: for the bad channels, I recommend the video sources portion of http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[17:14:33]

sphery:

flexy: yeah, it's amazing how many people get new mobile phones, then accidentally send empty replies to messages from one of the lists

[17:15:02]

sphery:

that's what touch screens are all about--touching the wrong thing--it seems

[17:15:42]

sphery:

flexy: notice also that you have to do channel scans for all digital sources--can't create the channels with Fetch channels

[17:16:05]

sphery:

you may or may not have to manually map xmltvids to the scanned channels before running mythfilldatabase--depending on your grabber

[17:16:29]

sphery:

and your local broadcast streams (i.e. whether they agree on enough information for mfdb to automatically match them up)

[17:17:02]

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[17:17:07]

flexy:

yeah

[17:17:27]

sphery:

wow, it's even better

[17:17:49]

flexy:

actually my channel setup is OK, if I can't do with just one source (both fta and pay channels)

[17:17:56]

sphery:

3 hours after the new mobile phone was announced, someone announced their new Blackberry by sending a garbage reply to that same accidental message: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/459048#459048

[17:18:42]

flexy:

heh :)

[17:19:02]

sphery:

FWIW, video source is a logical name for a group of channels and their tuning information, so if any tuning information differs on any of the channels, you would need multiple sources

[17:19:03]

flexy:

but the no free buffers issue would need clarifying...

[17:19:33]

sphery:

yeah, that it's another generic message, kind of like prebuffering pauses

[17:19:42]

sphery:

basically, it could be caused by any of a number of things

[17:19:55]

sphery:

from bad video drivers to too-slow system to ...

[17:20:02]

sphery:

lots of other things, too

[17:21:56]

flexy:

right

[17:22:06]

wagnerrp:

god our users are ignorant...

[17:22:06]

flexy:

should I file bug report?

[17:22:40]

wagnerrp:

'a core duo mac mini isnt powerful enough for the ach-two-six-fours'

[17:22:51]

sgsax:

wagnerrp: don't worry, it's not just your users

[17:23:13]

sgsax:

it's users everywhere

[17:24:40]

sgsax:

my users are supposed to be moderately smart (comp sci students at university)

[17:24:47]

sgsax:

they can't remember their passwords

[17:25:07]

sgsax:

or read and follow basic instructions

[17:25:13]

flexy:

sphery: it's running on athlon dual core 5200+ and the same error came from another board with little faster (in GHz atleast) 4 core intel cpu + intel chipset mb... most likely something else then...

[17:25:14]

wagnerrp:

sgsax: nah, you cant expect that until the mouth breathers get weeded out in the first two years

[17:25:16]

sphery:

I just don't get why people get so upset about MythTV recording 2 copies of one episode of a show

[17:25:19]

sphery:

just delete it

[17:25:31]

sphery:

would you /really/ prefer that MythTV failed the other way--didn't record things it should?

[17:25:43]

sphery:

it's a lot easier to delete episodes than to go back in time and re-record them

[17:25:46]

flexy:

not really :)

[17:25:49]

sgsax:

if you do your recording schedule right, that shouldn't happen

[17:26:14]

sphery:

sgsax: well, for some listings data, there will be re-records

[17:26:40]

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[17:26:54]

sphery:

still, they spend so much time--and so much of our scheduler guy's time--chasing wild geese that it's annoying

[17:27:01]

sphery:

MythTV is doing /exactly/ what it should

[17:27:02]

sgsax:

fair enough

[17:27:23]

sphery:

the problem is they don't understand how it's working and their second-guessing code written by someone much more informed than they

[17:27:30]

sphery:

anyway, had to vent a bit

[17:27:30]

flexy:

yeah, it happens. I do see it when the grabber gets program info and the info of the show includes rerun in my native language... it also gets recorded.

[17:27:38]

sgsax:

speaking of recording schedules, I was playing with regex filtering on mythweb last night, didn't quite get it to work right for me

[17:28:13]

wagnerrp:

and how do people manage to find the #mythtv channel for random unrelated tasks?

[17:28:29]

sphery:

sgsax: yeah, it's more of a "kind of regexp" search

[17:28:45]

sphery:

sgsax: Advanced Search is the best approach to being specific

[17:28:46]

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[17:28:55]

wagnerrp:

surely mythtv maintains the lirc project right?

[17:29:02]

flexy:

aah, actually the info is the same + rerun at the end of the description

[17:29:14]

** wagnerrp silently ignores the fact that one of our devs is the primary on lirc **

[17:29:21]

sgsax:

when I tried to do a regex in advanced search, it didn't seem to like my syntax

[17:29:48]

sgsax:

wagnerrp: you mean you *aren't* responsible for everything that touches mythtv?

[17:30:14]

sphery:

flexy: yeah, if you have no programid for either episode (previously recorded or listings episode) and your duplicate matching method includes description (i.e. is anything other than Subtitle), then it would re-record that because it has a different description.

[17:30:25]

JEDIDIAH__:

a bunch of clutter in the recordings is going to prevent stuff from being recorded as it should sooner or later, or cause stuff to be deleted.

[17:30:34]

sphery:

flexy: is that EIT data?

[17:31:12]

flexy:

sphery: yeah, IIRC my epg has only description, subtitle is empty... no, it's xmltv grabber

[17:31:32]

flexy:

tv_grab_fi to be exact

[17:31:35]

sphery:

sgsax: right, it does some fall backs and stuff that generally mean if you do more than ^search$, it will get crazy results

[17:31:58]

sgsax:

I'll keep playing with it

[17:32:30]

sgsax:

when I make a new schedule, I don't start from the search, I jsut make a new custom schedule

[17:32:54]

sphery:

flexy: then the appending-rerun-to-description issue could be fixed with a modification to the grabber that strips (Rerun) from the description and instead puts the info where it belongs--in <previously-shown /> element

[17:33:04]

flexy:

sphery: would be nice if it was possible to make it ignore certain words. I could include the finnish word for rerun

[17:33:18]

sphery:

the best fix is to fix the data :)

[17:33:37]

sphery:

you would fix things automatically for all fi users that way :)

[17:33:43]

flexy:

did not think of that at all... :)

[17:33:51]

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[17:33:56]

sphery:

several other grabbers have done that

[17:34:40]

sphery:

just happens once in a while because it requires someone who's using that grabber to realize that it needs fixing and then submit the patch

[17:34:53]

flexy:

and the grabber is perl..

[17:35:07]

sphery:

yeah, rather straightforward and great for processing text...

[17:35:21]

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[17:35:38]

flexy:

I can't perl, but it's still "easy", perhaps I could hack something up. C is much too difficult for me...

[17:35:48]

sphery:

yeah, I don't perl either--I hack

[17:38:24]

sgsax:

perl can do some really cool stuff

[17:38:51]

sgsax:

even has a OOP-like layer if you want that

[17:39:13]

flexy:

the wife does not really like too much of the livetv interrupts... that's why I'm asking about the issue... I don't really watch livetv. Only recordings. On a work trips abroad 80% of the month. But she's home 24/7 with our 7month old boy.. she watches livetv when she has the time.

[17:39:42]

flexy:

well well.

[17:41:19]

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[17:41:50]

flexy:

sphery: do you know a grabber that has fixed this rerun issue? I could take a look at the solution...

[17:42:06]

flexy:

try to whip up something.

[17:42:45]

sphery:

flexy: I can't remember specifics. Nick Morrott on list might known

[17:42:46]

sphery:

know

[17:42:52]

flexy:

right

[17:45:26]

sphery:

he sometimes comes here, too... knowledge junkie, IIRC

[17:45:33]

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[17:49:53]

SteveGoodey:

flexy: Best place for Nick Morrott is xmltv-users list.

[17:52:25]

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[17:52:47]

sphery:

SteveGoodey: would he be hanging around #xmltv, too?

[17:55:53]

SteveGoodey:

sphery: Err not sure about that, sorry.

[17:56:15]

sphery:

no problems... just thought it might be another place to find him

[17:57:21]

flexy:

SteveGoodey: thanks

[17:58:23]

CyberKnet:

sphery: +1 from an ignorant user regarding people not understanding scheduling.

[17:58:41]

CyberKnet:

I've been bitten by that particular bullet, and I took up people's time, and it was completely my fault.

[17:58:54]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[17:59:00]

CyberKnet:

Part of the problem is no good way to browse recording schedules from the front end.

[17:59:03]

CyberKnet:

imho.

[17:59:13]

CyberKnet:

MythWeb does a good job of it...

[17:59:23]

sphery:

someone asking once and learning a bit is fine... it's that we have a couple of users who just keep doing it over and over with the same general idea being the answer

[17:59:34]

CyberKnet:

but there are a log of confirmation boxes that make mass deleting recording schedules ... painful.

[17:59:35]

flexy:

sphery: just went thru my recording schedules... there were duplicate recording schedules. Have to check out if myth now wants to record duplicates or was it just because of the duplicate schedules...

[17:59:40]

sphery:

It's like they're on a scheduler witch hunt

[18:00:15]

CyberKnet:

sphery: People get personal about their TV. Especially when the WAF is involved.

[18:00:27]

flexy:

CyberKnet: true, true :D

[18:00:37]

sphery:

yeah, but it's recording too much--it's not missing stuff

[18:00:46]

sphery:

it's the best of all possible dup-matching failures

[18:00:59]

CyberKnet:

flexy: Yeah, when the WAF is involved, *ANYTHING* to stop it from being the user's fault!

[18:01:00]

flexy:

true that too

[18:01:02]

sphery:

anyway...

[18:01:11]

sphery:

heh

[18:01:16]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Agreed.

[18:01:44]

CyberKnet:

sphery: And yet it still bugged me that when the same show is on an HD channel and a non-HD channel and doesn't have an episode title that both recorded.

[18:02:14]

CyberKnet:

But it was the best possible outcome other than just one recording.

[18:02:24]

CyberKnet:

None recording is *far* worse.

[18:02:40]

CyberKnet:

And it honestly doesnt happen that often.

[18:03:52]

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[18:03:55]

** CyberKnet clicks refresh on his newegg order status repeatedly **

[18:04:15]

CyberKnet:

sphery: I went with the video card you pointed out, thanks.

[18:04:29]

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[18:06:49]

sphery:

CyberKnet: heh, remember that I take no responsibility for issues :)

[18:06:54]

sphery:

hope it works well for you, though

[18:06:57]

sphery:

definitely a nice price

[18:06:59]

CyberKnet:

sphery: thus not your recommendation :)

[18:07:14]

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[18:07:29]

CyberKnet:

definitely a nice price.

[18:09:06]

sgsax:

which one was that? I'm having a helluva time finding a card with working tv-out in my bone pile

[18:09:26]

CyberKnet:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130541

[18:09:37]

CyberKnet:

$20 (After rebates) for a Geforce 210

[18:09:43]

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[18:09:46]

CyberKnet:

nice price (if rebate works, and if card works nicely)

[18:09:49]

CyberKnet:

and it's fanless.

[18:09:59]

sgsax:

that heatsink an extra slot-width?

[18:10:06]

sphery:

may not have tv out, though

[18:10:10]

CyberKnet:

sgsax: It looks like it.

[18:10:12]

sgsax:

pretty sure it won't fit in my shuttle box, then

[18:10:15]

CyberKnet:

may not have TV out? It had HDMI...

[18:10:20]

sgsax:

yeah, it's got hdmi

[18:10:26]

** sgsax still lives in the tv dark ages **

[18:10:26]

sphery:

heh, HDMI isn't TV out

[18:10:28]

sphery:

that's HDMI

[18:10:33]

CyberKnet:

pooh

[18:10:35]

sphery:

tv out is composite or S-Video :)

[18:10:47]

sphery:

and, by a loose definition, maybe Component

[18:10:53]

sphery:

at least in my world :)

[18:11:03]

flexy:

nice price... only bad thing I can see is that it propably blocks one pci slot. Just like my 9500gt card does...

[18:11:47]

sphery:

yeah, $18.50 ish after rebate and discount is nice for GF210

[18:12:01]

CyberKnet:

It will block a PCIE 2x slot on the board I just bought, but the board has 1xpcie 16x and 3xpcie 2x

[18:12:20]

CyberKnet:

so I'm not worried about losing one.

[18:12:40]

sgsax:

guess I'll keep digging, thanks

[18:12:45]

CyberKnet:

and if I ever do become worried, I'll just water cool it. Because water cooling is cool.

[18:12:52]

CyberKnet:

heh

[18:12:54]

sphery:

heh, cool

[18:13:01]

sphery:

pun intended?

[18:13:02]

flexy:

yeah. used to do that several years ago

[18:13:17]

flexy:

then I grew up and stopped that... :D

[18:13:29]

CyberKnet:

flexy: sorry, continuation of a mention I made last night of a useless closed loop cpu water cooling system.

[18:13:42]

sphery:

if it's not liquid helium, it's not worth the effort

[18:13:53]

CyberKnet:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181013

[18:14:12]

sphery:

my superconducting GPU really flies :)

[18:14:14]

flexy:

I did it for the quietness when overclocking...

[18:14:25]

CyberKnet:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010

[18:14:33]

CyberKnet:

actually it's the second one. it looks wimpier.

[18:14:38]

flexy:

haven't had the patience for overclocking for several years now

[18:14:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: only if you place it on top of a magnetic field

[18:14:56]

CyberKnet:

flexy: yeah, me either. I'd just rather stuff lasted a long time.

[18:15:15]

sphery:

flexy: yeah, at today's prices for hardware, the minimal jump in performance from overclocking isn't worth the disadvantages (and costs involved in cooling)

[18:15:17]

flexy:

CyberKnet: yeah. and be stable.

[18:15:33]

flexy:

yeah. like I said, I grew up... :D

[18:15:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah, it doesn't use the PCIe bus--it uses a mag-lev bullet train :)

[18:16:02]

wagnerrp:

CyberKnet: i explained my issue with those units last night

[18:16:04]

flexy:

it was fun at first, when using PC just for games and such

[18:16:21]

wagnerrp:

water is not used for cooling, its only used as a heat transfer mechanism, much like heatpipes

[18:16:22]

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[18:16:55]

wagnerrp:

it only exists to get the heat to the radiator, and ensure uniform distribution

[18:17:04]

flexy:

yeah. I transferred the heat to a cooler made out of car interior heating element

[18:17:17]

sphery:

I haven't had much luck with heat pipes on systems that produce much heat--they lose their coolant, then they're useless

[18:17:18]

SerkanBilici:

hello

[18:17:20]

wagnerrp:

if youre not going to use that ability to transfer to a /massive/ heatsink

[18:17:42]

flexy:

with a massive 25cm fan going so slowly that it was virtually soundless

[18:17:42]

wagnerrp:

then there is no advantage to simply putting a similarly sized heatpipe cooler on top of your processor

[18:17:43]

sphery:

I now baby my laptops because of heatpipes

[18:17:44]

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[18:18:03]

sphery:

wonder if we scared SerkanBilici

[18:18:12]

flexy:

perhaps :)

[18:18:36]

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[18:19:08]

flexy:

it was a nice quiet system... but not service free. the water seemed to evaporate from somewhere...

[18:19:44]

flexy:

and I stopped playing with it after I forgot to add water and circulation was stopped because of that. cpu was boiling the water... :D

[18:21:54]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you know what the active fluid is in heatpipes? just pressurized ammonia?

[18:22:21]

wagnerrp:

cant seem to find any information on that

[18:23:24]

sphery:

all I know is what I read in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe , which indicates that it could be just about any liquid--including water.

[18:23:45]

sphery:

The vast majority of heat pipes for low temperature applications use some combination of ammonia (213–373 K), alcohol (methanol (283–403 K) or ethanol (273–403 K)) or water (303–473 K) as working fluid.

[18:23:51]

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[18:26:45]

flexy:

yeah, I've read about DIY heat pipes. made from alcohol, which is under pressurized during closing the tube, thus boiling under the normal boiling temperature...

[18:27:35]

kormoc:

erm

[18:27:41]

kormoc:

under pressure would prevent boiling

[18:27:50]

wagnerrp:

overpressure would prevent boiling

[18:27:59]

wagnerrp:

i.e. pressure cooker

[18:39:06]

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[18:39:22]

flexy:

I meant under the athmospheric pressure

[18:39:26]

sphery:

maybe he meant "underpressured"?

[18:39:30]

flexy:

yeah

[18:39:33]

sphery:

still too slow

[18:39:36]

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[18:39:47]

flexy:

:)

[18:47:39]

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[18:53:45]

skd5aner:

where can I get the lircrc file for mceusb remotes?

[18:54:10]

skd5aner:

in the contrib dir?

[18:55:20]

wagnerrp:

on the wiki

[18:55:32]

skd5aner:

not here? /mythtv/contrib/config_files/lirc/lircrc.native.example.mceusb2

[18:55:43]

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[18:58:45]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote#Example_lircrc_config_file or http://mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote_LIRC_Config

[19:02:35]

flexy:

what is the correct menu to see recording rules? As in if I do a record allways on this channel for example to "Law and Order"

[19:03:08]

wagnerrp:

its under manage recordings

[19:03:24]

flexy:

and recording rules?

[19:04:10]

flexy:

There I can see several instances of one show...

[19:04:51]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: what's wrong with the one in contrib in 0.23?

[19:05:35]

flexy:

with one show without the blue ball, same show with blue ball and two more with the gray ball with cross?

[19:05:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery forgot to move it to the wiki

[19:06:07]

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[19:06:52]

skd5aner:

so, it still works fine – just is going away

[19:08:30]

sphery:

I forgot to move one?

[19:11:55]

sphery:

I set the script info category on that page, so I'm guessing I just deleted the one from contrib because there was another (likely same) copy already on that page

[19:14:15]

sphery:

actually, looks like http://mythtv.org/wiki/Lircrc_-_mceusb is the one I put up there

[19:14:21]

sphery:

so, do we really need 3 copies?

[19:16:05]

sphery:

and it looks like we have cached version of http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:LIRC_Configuration_Files for not-logged in users

[19:16:59]

sphery:

wow, big change--from like 6 pages to http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:LIRC_Configur . . . action=purge

[19:17:05]

sphery:

er, without that purge

[19:17:09]

sphery:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Category:LIRC_Configuration_Files

[19:18:00]

skd5aner:

Well, I'll use the one found in 0.23 contrib for now -seems to be what I need and is a bit more clear than what is on the wiki

[19:18:08]

skd5aner:

talks about what needs to change in keybindings to support it, etc

[19:18:22]

sphery:

the wiki is a wiki...

[19:18:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, what do you think about the 3 MCE lircrcs?

[19:19:27]

sphery:

skd5aner: aren't you using this one: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Lircrc_-_mceusb

[19:19:29]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, the config files should be broken out into their own page

[19:19:45]

skd5aner:

sphery: yup

[19:19:54]

sphery:

wagnerrp: agreed--and linked from the other page

[19:19:55]

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[19:20:02]

sphery:

but do we need 3 copies of mce remote config?

[19:20:06]

wagnerrp:

ideally, we would implement some form of the mythwikiscripts into the backend/frontend setup

[19:20:20]

wagnerrp:

so they could be downloaded and installed automatically

[19:20:42]

wagnerrp:

or we move to something user-editable other than a wiki for that purpose

[19:20:56]

wagnerrp:

do you remember how we do a cache purge?

[19:21:05]

sphery:

as I showed above by accident :)

[19:21:09]

sphery:

action=purge

[19:21:20]

wagnerrp:

oh, its per-page

[19:21:36]

sphery:

yep

[19:22:06]

wagnerrp:

i was hoping there was some purge button i could press

[19:23:17]

sphery:

I just did all the config file categories

[19:23:37]

sphery:

for not logged in users

[19:23:38]

skd5aner:

is there an easy way to reset all keybindings to the defaults?

[19:23:48]

sphery:

skd5aner: it's on my todo list

[19:24:10]

sphery:

for now, the only way is to shut down all backends/frontends on a system, then delete them

[19:24:22]

wagnerrp:

the todo list being those tasks he tries to urge other people to implement for him... :P

[19:24:29]

skd5aner:

hrmmmm

[19:24:30]

skd5aner:

bummer

[19:25:07]

skd5aner:

mine have been jacked around just enough at this point that it's making setting up this remote not very fun

[19:25:14]

skd5aner:

duplicate keys, etc

[19:26:03]

wagnerrp:

sphery: are keybindings reloaded by a cache clear?

[19:26:16]

sphery:

nope

[19:26:18]

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[19:26:23]

skd5aner:

since there's not a built in way – is there a manual way to reset them via SQL?

[19:26:28]

sphery:

since they're not settings

[19:26:43]

sphery:

skd5aner: that's what I meant by shut down and delete them

[19:26:57]

skd5aner:

Ah, just the keybinding settings...

[19:26:58]

wagnerrp:

delete from keybindings where hostname=xxx

[19:27:07]

sphery:

and jumppoints

[19:27:07]

skd5aner:

Well, that isn't so bad... I can do that

[19:27:08]

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[19:27:19]

sphery:

though technically there is a built-in way

[19:27:24]

sphery:

just no button to push to make it happen

[19:27:31]

skd5aner:

:P

[19:27:44]

sphery:

I added the code to allow it

[19:27:54]

sphery:

just didn't get around to putting a button in Edit Keys

[19:28:07]

skd5aner:

well, I guess I'll reset them – really can't do much harm at this point – starting over will probably make it a lot easier to do a few things

[19:28:54]

skd5aner:

Once the rows are removed, just relaunch the frontend and i'll create them itself?

[19:28:58]

wagnerrp:

dan wilga is a bad man

[19:29:15]

sphery:

?

[19:29:34]

wagnerrp:

adding addresses to the CC in mailing list posts

[19:29:43]

sphery:

ah, yeah, I don't like that

[19:29:58]

sphery:

as a matter of fact, I hate it when MUAs put addresses in attributions

[19:30:06]

sphery:

they shouldn't do that for list replies

[19:30:26]

skd5aner:

sphery: actually, can I simply just empty the keybinding and jumpoint table?

[19:30:36]

wagnerrp:

does mythtranscode support HD transcoding?

[19:30:43]

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[19:30:45]

sphery:

skd5aner: shut down everything first

[19:31:09]

flexy:

wagnerrp: I suppose it does. because I think I have done so not so long ago...

[19:31:27]

wagnerrp:

i mean can you transcode to HD ASP

[19:31:29]

skd5aner:

sphery: yup, then simply relaunch?

[19:31:46]

sphery:

yeah

[19:31:52]

skd5aner:

here goes nothing

[19:32:12]

gaurdro_:

I know Shadow__X said they had an HVR-1600 working, does anyone else? I'm interested in seeing someone elses configuration.

[19:32:13]

flexy:

wagnerrp: or was it that I just "transcoded" something to removable media... can't remember actually.

[19:32:53]

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[19:33:13]

wagnerrp:

seems to allow you to run up to 1920x1088

[19:33:18]

sphery:

yeah

[19:33:23]

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[19:33:30]

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[19:33:41]

gaurdro_:

The default mythbuntu kernel (2.6.35) recognizes the card, but doesn't operate with it at all. won't detect any channels at all.

[19:33:48]

sphery:

so, if nothing else, it allows high /resolution/ ASP

[19:34:10]

sphery:

whether it's actually high-definition (what that means, not what the marketers think it means) is a whole other question, though :)

[19:34:31]

sphery:

gaurdro_: have you tried #mythbuntu ?

[19:34:56]

gaurdro_:

not yet, I'm waiting for xchat to join the channel. :P

[19:35:01]

sphery:

they will know better than us the ins and outs of mythbuntu card configuration/patching- or update-requirements/etc

[19:35:10]

wagnerrp:

you have a /dev/dvb/adapter0 ?

[19:35:24]

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[19:35:27]

sphery:

it's the analog that's not working for you, right, gaurdro_

[19:35:41]

sphery:

IIRC, gaurdro_ is getting video with no audio

[19:35:48]

gaurdro_:

sphery, yes on both accounts. :)

[19:36:09]

sphery:

gaurdro_: you shouldn't scan for channels on the analog side

[19:36:11]

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[19:36:27]

sphery:

you should use your listings provider to create channels with Fetch channels from listings source

[19:36:28]

gaurdro_:

sphery, why not?

[19:36:34]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[19:36:43]

sphery:

because analog scan doesn't work in MythTV 0.22+

[19:36:53]

sphery:

(might kind of work in 0.24-fixes...)

[19:36:55]

skd5aner:

BTW – is hostname case sensitive in regards to backends/frontends?

[19:37:06]

wagnerrp:

yes

[19:37:29]

sphery:

skd5aner: no, per mysql, but possibly per the code

[19:37:33]

sphery:

(likely per the code)

[19:37:49]

skd5aner:

I thought so – because I've rebuilt my machine in the past and intially had a capital letter to start the machine name and rebuilt it all lower case and I see multiple entries with both names

[19:37:53]

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[19:38:05]

sphery:

skd5aner: multiple entries in mysql?

[19:38:12]

skd5aner:

in the table yes

[19:38:16]

skd5aner:

"Raptor" and "raptor"

[19:38:19]

sphery:

should only be possible if they have different actions

[19:39:05]

sphery:

technically, the context, action, hostname must be unique (and case is irrelevant)

[19:39:34]

sphery:

s/must be unique/form the unique key/

[19:40:00]

sphery:

so I'm guessing you just have some with the new capitalization for those key bindings introduced later

[19:40:46]

Demerzel (Demerzel!~sjaveed@173-10-138-205-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:40:52]

Demerzel:

hello folks

[19:41:26]

sphery:

gaurdro_: Besides the analog scanner not working, there's really reason to ever do an analog scan if you can just download the list of the channels you want. The only reason we have an analog scan is for users who use analog tuners (not S-Video/composite inputs) /and/ live in areas without good listings.

[19:41:35]

sphery:

gaurdro_: you get a much cleaner, better list from your listings

[19:41:42]

sphery:

Demerzel: hello

[19:41:45]

Demerzel:

anyone here know of a way to ensure mythtv always records sports shows until they end? e.g. football games that go into overtime shouldn't be cut off in the 4th quarter?

[19:42:10]

sphery:

Demerzel: a) add an end late of sufficient length to all of your recording rules

[19:42:35]

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[19:42:38]

Demerzel:

sphery: that's my current workaround but it means an extra 60 minutes of HD recording chewing up HD space

[19:42:41]

sphery:

or b) use some hack like the script that tries to determine if the game has ended using the Internet, then extends the recording if not

[19:42:44]

Demerzel:

sphery: i hope there's a b) to that ;-)

[19:42:49]

gaurdro_:

sphery, Thanks for the info. :) I'd prefer to be able to scan because fetching the listings gives me 50+ extra channels that I don't recieve at all. :/

[19:42:50]

sphery:

or c) use the "Category overtime" hack

[19:43:00]

sphery:

which, if I get my way, will disappear soon

[19:43:16]

Demerzel:

Category overtime sounds like a good idea

[19:43:25]

sphery:

no, it's an awful hack

[19:43:27]

Demerzel:

sphery: why are you interested in disappearing it?

[19:43:34]

sphery:

because it's an awful hack

[19:43:44]

sphery:

the right solution is to do your recording rules properly

[19:43:44]

skd5aner:

sphery: can this keybinding go away yet? PLAYALT

[19:43:45]

Demerzel:

sphery: implementation-wise?

[19:43:51]

sphery:

the category overtime adds nothing

[19:43:55]

skd5aner:

sphery: playalt = Play selected item in alternate player

[19:43:58]

skd5aner:

for video

[19:44:12]

Demerzel:

sphery: i see what you mean

[19:44:14]

sphery:

Demerzel: implementation wise /and/ the whole premise behind it

[19:44:51]

Demerzel:

sphery: proper recording rules might help things out in some circumstances

[19:44:56]

CyberKnet:

Gosh. If there could be some service online where our channels actually posted what was currently playing ... the value that would add to MythTV. yikes.

[19:44:58]

sphery:

Demerzel: my plan is to make it so that users can create saved "templates" for creating recording rules--so they'd create a special one for sports with an appropriate end late--and then use those templates to create new rules

[19:45:10]

CyberKnet:

Like, what was *really* playing ... not just what was *supposed* to be playing.

[19:45:30]

Demerzel:

one thing i'd like is to allow specifying "record on these channels only" and specify more than one channel to make the rules robust enough not to need that kind of hack

[19:45:30]

sphery:

Demerzel: the problem with category overtime is that is just doesn't make sense from the standpoint that not all sports need the same overtime

[19:45:31]

CyberKnet:

so that I would know that ProgramX started 90 minutes late.

[19:45:41]

sphery:

Football often goes >1hr over time.

[19:45:51]

sphery:

Gymnastics seldom (never?) does

[19:45:54]

Demerzel:

sphery: right ... one would argue you could create a separate category for each sport

[19:46:03]

sphery:

no, better, create a separate rule for each sport

[19:46:13]

sphery:

and specify the appropriate end late for each ruel

[19:46:20]

sphery:

it's a terrible hack :)

[19:46:41]

Demerzel:

sphery: right ... it's what i do right now but see my comment above about being able to specify multiple channels to record from in a rule (as distinct from "record at any time on any channel")

[19:47:06]

sphery:

Demerzel: http://sourceforge.net/projects/mythtv-tools/ is the other hack I mentioend

[19:47:19]

CyberKnet:

Demerzel: You need to use a custom SQL rule to add an in (channel list). I've thought this before too.

[19:47:28]

sphery:

Demerzel: right, either a power rule

[19:47:32]

sphery:

or multiple rules

[19:47:42]

sphery:

or, better, don't use this channel rules

[19:47:49]

Demerzel:

sphery: e.g. you might want to record nfl games on fox, cbs and nbc depending on the game ... they'd be all football games and would require identical overtime rules i'd think. That's where category overtime for e.g. a "football" category might help

[19:47:56]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Yeah. Multiple rules has caused me issues before with priorities being different.

[19:48:06]

Demerzel:

sphery: but a power rule as you suggest mitigates the need for such a category overtime altogether too

[19:48:07]

sphery:

Demerzel: you don't control the category

[19:48:09]

CyberKnet:

sphery: as much as I try not to use priorities on schedules, they are still needed.

[19:48:17]

sphery:

Demerzel: the category is specified by your listings provider (and not by all of them)

[19:48:28]

Demerzel:

sphery: oh ... different then

[19:48:39]

Demerzel:

sphery: i thought you were talking about recording groups

[19:48:42]

sphery:

Demerzel: you can't edit it--you can only specify which *one* category specified by your provider should always be extended by a certain time

[19:48:49]

sphery:

nope, this is different

[19:48:53]

sphery:

all part of the hackishness

[19:48:55]

Demerzel:

sphery: nm :-)

[19:49:26]

sphery:

Demerzel: with my approach, you would create a football rule template, then you'd create one or more rules using that template

[19:49:40]

Demerzel:

right

[19:49:43]

Demerzel:

templates make sense

[19:49:45]

sphery:

the template would allow you to specify things like start early, end late, priority, recording group, transcode/commflag, ...

[19:49:59]

Demerzel:

maybe even whether to record in HD or any

[19:50:02]

Demerzel:

HD/SD/any

[19:50:48]

sphery:

well, you'd be able to specify recording profile

[19:51:19]

Demerzel:

right

[19:51:25]

sphery:

but for saying, "don't record if it's not HDTV", you'd have to use a custom/power recording rule

[19:51:42]

Demerzel:

recording profile would only determine the quality of encoding that's stored on the box

[19:51:44]

sphery:

since HDTV is specified by listings providers and in many cases it's meaningless

[19:51:53]

Demerzel:

sphery: right ... that's what i mean

[19:51:56]

** CyberKnet needs to extend mythweb to support custom/power rules **

[19:52:04]

sphery:

I.e. there are tons of SDTV upscaled shows that are listed as HDTV in listings

[19:52:19]

sphery:

they may be high resolution, but they're not high definition

[19:52:30]

Demerzel:

sphery: true true however i haven't seen any such at least in my OTA channels

[19:52:38]

sphery:

and they're only high resolution because someone upscaled before MythTV had a chance to do it itself

[19:52:41]

Demerzel:

sphery: it seems to be more prevalent on cable which i don't have

[19:52:43]

sphery:

(possibly using better quality upscalers)

[19:52:54]

sphery:

I see it all the time in my US OTA channels

[19:52:56]

sphery:

mainly for movies

[19:53:03]

sphery:

aired during non-primetime

[19:53:08]

sphery:

sometimes during primetime

[19:53:09]

Demerzel:

Demerzel: right ... not to mention the HDTV by virtue of the vertical bars on either side of the picture

[19:53:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i just threw in the glove

[19:53:26]

sphery:

I do have some "HDTV" movies with pillarboxing

[19:53:35]

Demerzel:

pillarboxing

[19:53:37]

Demerzel:

TIL

[19:53:40]

wagnerrp:

told someone who transcoded all their recordings to mpeg4 that mpeg4 was garbage

[19:53:56]

wagnerrp:

mpeg4 asp, that is

[19:53:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, good reply

[19:54:07]

sphery:

I completely agree

[19:54:16]

Demerzel:

so here's another question

[19:54:30]

Demerzel:

is there a way to merge two recordings?

[19:54:43]

wagnerrp:

they were talking about how the ION2 does ASP decoding, which is good for those who transcoded all their content

[19:54:52]

wagnerrp:

Demerzel: what kind of recordings?

[19:54:54]

sphery:

Demerzel: best way to learn more about scheduling: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html and for creating power rules: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html#ss12.5

[19:55:14]

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[19:55:18]

sphery:

Demerzel: only way to combine them is using some external video processing application, then dumping the result into, for example, MythVideo

[19:55:25]

wagnerrp:

you mean like you have two parts of a show, and you want to merge them into one?

[19:55:36]

Demerzel:

the DST change caught me by surprise and i didn't rerun mythfill on the day of and my football game got split into the pregame recording and the actual game itself

[19:55:47]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: yeah

[19:55:49]

wagnerrp:

if these are digital recordings, just 'cat' the two into a single file

[19:55:58]

wagnerrp:

drop that file in place of one of the recordings

[19:55:59]

Demerzel:

yeah digital OTA HD

[19:55:59]

sphery:

Demerzel: you /could/ put the result on top of one of the 2 original recording files, then rebuild the seek table, but it will have some invalid data

[19:56:03]

sphery:

so MythVideo is best

[19:56:09]

wagnerrp:

and rerun 'mythcommflag --rebuild'

[19:56:24]

sphery:

I still recommend MythVideo

[19:56:44]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i assume hes got a recording that got chopped in half, like when you restart your backend mid-recording

[19:56:48]

Demerzel:

MythVideo? will that allow me to cat my videos? or just for playback?

[19:57:23]

wagnerrp:

in which case the only 'invalid data' after a rebuild would be the endtime, and maybe filesize

[19:57:35]

wagnerrp:

i dont know if a seektable rebuild updates the file size

[19:58:11]

Demerzel:

i just realized that with 6 years of mythtv usage under my belt i'm still a n00b :-/

[19:58:30]

wagnerrp:

there might be some funkiness with the timecodes

[19:58:38]

wagnerrp:

im not entirely sure what data is contained within those

[19:58:50]

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[19:58:50]

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[19:59:02]

k_ross:

Demerzel: unless you plan on keeping the recording and watching it again (and again), i would say it's more trouble than it's worth

[19:59:10]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it doesn't

[19:59:14]

wagnerrp:

yeah, there is that too

[19:59:32]

sphery:

and, yeah, k_ross is definitely right

[19:59:43]

sphery:

and, if you are planning on keeping and re-watching, just record a rerun

[19:59:52]

sphery:

or buy a DVD/BluRay

[19:59:56]

Demerzel:

k_ross: i'll keep it until the ravens lose in the playoffs or until they win the superbowl ... if it's the latter than i'll keep watching it over and over ;-)

[19:59:58]

wagnerrp:

well youre not goign to get a rerun of a football game

[20:00:10]

sphery:

where, in some areas of the world, only the 2nd approach (buying a DVD/BluRay) is legal

[20:00:16]

sphery:

including a certain country where I live...

[20:00:22]

Demerzel:

sphery: no re-runs as far as i can see

[20:00:40]

wagnerrp:

sphery: reruns are illegal? eh?

[20:00:49]

Demerzel:

it's all aboot the profits, eh?

[20:00:52]

sphery:

wagnerrp: keeping recordings of TV is illegal

[20:00:56]

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[20:00:57]

sphery:

it's not time shifting

[20:01:06]

Demerzel:

it's MONEY shifting!!! OMG

[20:01:07]

sphery:

it's a copyright violation

[20:01:20]

Demerzel:

you done shifted money from the copyright holders to *gasp* yourself

[20:01:39]

sphery:

I've actually heard it claimed that keeping for >30 days is no longer considered time shifting

[20:01:46]

Demerzel:

i'll bet if i pitch that to the RCMP they'll start a campaign encouraging people not to money-shift

[20:02:11]

Demerzel:

sphery: did you hear that from someone who's ever used a vcr in their life?

[20:02:16]

sphery:

Demerzel: So you're a bit North of us, then? Canada?

[20:02:21]

wagnerrp:

so i guess you have to delete AND scrub the disk?

[20:02:33]

sphery:

Demerzel: it was specifically about VCR recording (back before DVRs)

[20:02:45]

Demerzel:

sphery: no ... i thought you were a bit north :-) i'm in ravenstown

[20:02:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, haven't heard any talk of scrubbing the disk

[20:03:01]

sphery:

I think deleting is fine, but undeleting would be a copyright violation

[20:03:02]

Demerzel:

sphery: you're saying recording TV is illegal in the US?

[20:03:13]

sphery:

so scrubbing isn't required since the undelete would be covered, already :)

[20:03:29]

sphery:

Demerzel: keeping recording TV is illegal in the US

[20:03:36]

sphery:

time shifting is considered fair use

[20:03:45]

sphery:

watching over and over again is not time shifting

[20:03:51]

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[20:03:57]

Demerzel:

sphery: is that for real?

[20:03:59]

sphery:

then again, IANAL

[20:04:27]

Demerzel:

sphery: since i'm in this channel i'm sure i'm not the only one who's first thought is WTF?

[20:04:45]

sphery:

heh, yeah, likely

[20:04:55]

sphery:

I will admit that I delete /every/ show after watching it

[20:05:08]

sphery:

but I don't watch all my shows within 30 days of original airing

[20:05:21]

sphery:

(usually don't even consider watching a series until after the first season closes)

[20:05:25]

Demerzel:

sphery: so do i ... to make room for others but i don't delete it immediately .. i let auto-expire take care of it

[20:05:35]

Demerzel:

sphery: but i've been saving my football games

[20:05:38]

sphery:

yeah, and auto-expire would be fine, too

[20:06:02]

sphery:

it's just watching a show after the "too long to be considered time shifting" that would be illegal

[20:06:02]

Demerzel:

hell i have the steelers/ravens game from last year still on my backend

[20:06:17]

sphery:

er, heck... (language, please)

[20:06:18]

sphery:

:)

[20:06:28]

sphery:

we try to keep it very clean here

[20:06:46]

Demerzel:

ah :-) didn't know that was a banned word ... i think of it as a place :-)

[20:06:46]

sphery:

yeah, the copyright rules definitely need to catch up with technology

[20:06:49]

Demerzel:

but i'll refrain

[20:07:03]

sphery:

now that it's not unusual to have many terabytes of storage for DVRs, ...

[20:07:47]

Demerzel:

mmhmm specially considering the size of HD recordings

[20:08:00]

sphery:

anyway, I just happen to be lucky in that I don't have any desire to create a huge collection of shows I've already seen

[20:08:46]

sphery:

and anything that I really want to collect, I'd rather collect actual DVDs or BluRays (with all the extra features and clean video--without ads/logos/weather alerts/breaking news updates/...)

[20:08:58]

sphery:

so I record, watch, delete--and for the stuff I really like, I buy on DVD

[20:09:21]

sphery:

as a matter of fact, my MythTV system has never once recorded a single episode of any Stargate series--which is my favorite of all time

[20:09:29]

sphery:

because I just buy it on DVD in the first place

[20:10:19]

sphery:

I do my part to reward the producers, writers, and actors in the shows I love with $0.0000000000000000001 each from the DVD purchase

[20:10:49]

Demerzel:

hmmm

[20:10:55]

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[20:11:00]

Demerzel:

does tivo require you to delete all recording shows eventually?

[20:11:11]

Demerzel:

s/recording/recorded/

[20:11:15]

sphery:

and, reward the studio with $44.9999999999999999999 from the $45 price of the season on DVD

[20:11:24]

Demerzel:

the precedent should be there

[20:11:42]

sphery:

TiVo at one point had implemented auto-delete functionality

[20:11:47]

sphery:

I don't know what happened to it

[20:11:52]

sphery:

it deleted shows after 30 days, IIRC

[20:12:11]

Demerzel:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_ . . . 20recordings

[20:12:24]

Demerzel:

looks like "Keep Until" can be set to "Until I Delete It"

[20:12:48]

sphery:

http://gizmodo.com/5037938/tivo-auto+delete-f . . . ly-star-trek

[20:13:23]

Demerzel:

which seems to indicate that, assuming you have a large amount of space and all you record is SG-1, you could have the entire show on disk with the ability to watch it at any time

[20:13:54]

sphery:

what you can do and what's illegal are seldom related

[20:14:04]

wagnerrp:

has anyone ever tried approaching nielson about supplying anonymous recording/viewing information?

[20:14:38]

sphery:

of course, the studios aren't really focusing on DVR owners since they're more threatened by blatant stealing from people downloading from the 'net

[20:14:45]

sphery:

so ...

[20:14:56]

Demerzel:

sphery: true true but with tivo being the starting point of the dvr revolution i figure by now someone somewhere would've challenged the inclusion of such a feature if it's illegal to keep tv recordings after 30 days

[20:15:27]

sphery:

but if you want your favorite actors/producers/writers/crew/... to get their fractional penny, just buy it on DVD/BluRay

[20:15:45]

sphery:

Demerzel: they did, and that's why TiVo put in the auto delete code

[20:16:10]

sphery:

it's just that they aren't really using it the way they were originally told to

[20:16:21]

sphery:

and the studios seem to have decided to focus on more pressing threats

[20:16:41]

Demerzel:

interesting

[20:17:14]

Demerzel:

and its auto-delete is different from mythtv's auto-expire

[20:17:27]

Demerzel:

it's a per-showing flag that determines how long it's available for viewing

[20:17:33]

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[20:18:17]

sphery:

yes, and the original implementation also enforced a maximum on all shows

[20:18:22]

sphery:

IIRC it was even 30 days

[20:18:46]

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[20:22:23]

wagnerrp:

i mean im just thinking about tivo and cable DVRs which sell usage statistics to nielson

[20:22:24]

Demerzel:

does that imply i can't keep my podcasts around either?

[20:22:29]

wagnerrp:

they get a say in the ratings, we dont

[20:22:43]

wagnerrp:

Demerzel: that depends entirely on the licensing of the podcast

[20:23:17]

wagnerrp:

obviously there would be concerns about false positives if it were a completely anonymous system

[20:23:26]

wagnerrp:

but we could tie it into the schedulesdirect accounts

[20:23:42]

wagnerrp:

to ensure only subscribers had a 'voice', and it was not a repeating voice

[20:24:20]

sphery:

heh, though for $20/vote, you could buy votes :)

[20:24:26]

wagnerrp:

track things like 'watched live', 'watched within the hour/day/week'

[20:24:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, im thinking at $20/vote, or even $5/vote for the quarter fee, it wouldnt be worth it

[20:24:54]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[20:25:11]

sphery:

free 7-day trials would definitely need to be unvotable

[20:25:46]

Demerzel:

ah

[20:26:01]

Demerzel:

is this to bring in additional funds for the project

[20:26:02]

Demerzel:

?

[20:26:15]

wagnerrp:

no, this is to vote for shows we like to stay in production

[20:26:24]

sphery:

I think it's mainly to allow people who really love Pushing Daisies to keep it from getting cancelled

[20:26:24]

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[20:26:31]

sphery:

well, it *would* have been

[20:27:11]

Demerzel:

sphery: right ... but the immediate impact would be additional revenue coming in to mythtv based on the sale of the data followed by whatever impact nielson ratings could have on a show's cancellation

[20:27:20]

wagnerrp:

s/Pushing Daisies/The Good Guys/

[20:27:30]

wagnerrp:

its still on the air, amazing, and getting awful ratings

[20:27:37]

Demerzel:

s/The Good Guys/Desperate Housewives/

[20:27:39]

** Demerzel ducks **

[20:27:42]

sphery:

heh

[20:27:52]

sphery:

I've bought every season of Desperate Housewives on DVD

[20:27:52]

wagnerrp:

Demerzel: schedules direct is a not-for-profit, and not officially connected to mythtv

[20:28:07]

sphery:

though none were shipped to me

[20:28:16]

sphery:

(present for my Grandma, believe it or not)

[20:28:21]

wagnerrp:

several of our devs are on their board, but the two are independent

[20:28:39]

wagnerrp:

there are also devs from other interested projects on their board, such as xmltv guys

[20:29:15]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: right ... maybe i'm misunderstanding ... but assuming mythtv backends send out viewing data to a central repository where they're accumulated and sent out to nielson (which is what i thought we were talking about) ... that doesn't require schedulesdirect to be officially connected to mythtv

[20:30:38]

Demerzel:

it should be a good way to fund further development though

[20:30:42]

Demerzel:

as long as it was opt-in

[20:30:55]

wagnerrp:

Demerzel: in the US, mythtv gets its listing data from schedules direct

[20:31:13]

wagnerrp:

who licenses it from Tribune, and requires a fairly cheap subscription for access

[20:31:45]

wagnerrp:

i was simply saying the fact that they require subscriptions puts them in prime placement for such an opt-in way to handle viewing data

[20:31:48]

Demerzel:

right ... individual subscribers buy the schedules direct subscriptions so mythtv isn't directly connected with it except that its users in the US need sd to get the listings data

[20:32:14]

wagnerrp:

since its a subscription service they can reasonably guarantee accuracy of information

[20:32:15]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: it looks like sd could become a vehicle for opting in but mythbackend is the real prime placement

[20:32:15]

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[20:32:17]

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[20:32:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont see how mythbackend could do anything

[20:32:54]

wagnerrp:

are you saying people would open up ports and let nielson hit mythbackend directly?

[20:32:56]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: mythbackend determines what you record, when you watch it, if you delete it without watching, etc

[20:33:02]

wagnerrp:

that sounds like an awful idea IMHO

[20:33:17]

wagnerrp:

no, im saying the frontend records what youre watching and when youre watching it

[20:33:17]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: no, i'm saying people will opt-in to have the backend upload usage data on a daily/weekly basis to a central server

[20:33:33]

wagnerrp:

and mythfilldatabase would send in status reports on the daily guide download

[20:33:48]

Demerzel:

which nielsson can then mine

[20:33:57]

Demerzel:

either way there's an opportunity to make money here

[20:34:08]

wagnerrp:

which SD could then package anonymously and sell/give to nielson

[20:34:15]

wagnerrp:

keep in mind that SD is a not-for-profit

[20:34:33]

wagnerrp:

any sales would simply be for offsetting server and licensing costs

[20:34:53]

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[20:35:51]

Demerzel:

correct me if i'm wrong but at this time sd can only track when i update my listings data and what channels are in that update

[20:36:03]

wagnerrp:

that is correct

[20:36:20]

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[20:36:27]

Demerzel:

the real ratings data is generated by the mythtv backend as it services requests to record and playback recordings from various frontends

[20:36:34]

wagnerrp:

and more specifically, they hand that information off to TMS who then lets you download that information from the TMS servers

[20:36:45]

Demerzel:

it would seem the backend is where all the really interesting data is generated

[20:36:53]

wagnerrp:

recording is meaningless

[20:36:59]

wagnerrp:

who cares if you record and never watch

[20:37:10]

wagnerrp:

and the backend doesnt handle playback from the local disk

[20:37:12]

Demerzel:

and that's done independently of sd/tmz _after_ the schedules are updated

[20:37:15]

wagnerrp:

it would have to be in the frontend/database

[20:37:21]

wagnerrp:

not the backend

[20:37:25]

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[20:37:31]

skd5aner:

sphery: would you possible be able to tell me what the defaults should be for Music NEXTTRACK ?

[20:37:44]

wagnerrp:

but thats all technicalities and really irrelevant

[20:37:57]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: the fact that you're recording something _could_ be significant when used in conjunction with other data

[20:38:14]

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[20:38:19]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: regardless i suppose it depends on the mythtv setup you have setup

[20:38:56]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: i use a single beefy backend coupled with a number of hdhomeruns and 2 diskless frontends + 2 consoles that can playback recordings

[20:39:18]

Demerzel:

wagnerrp: in all those cases it's the backend that's involved

[20:40:03]

Demerzel:

regardless it looks like the mythtv system (frontend/backend) as a whole provides the interesting data, not sd

[20:40:44]

Demerzel:

that data can be sold to nielson to fund further development of mythtv

[20:41:58]

Beirdo:

nielson can <CENSORED>

[20:42:21]

Beirdo:

their input has gotten many a good show prematurely cancelled

[20:43:58]

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[20:44:11]

** Demerzel still mournes Firefly **

[20:44:21]

Demerzel:

mourns even

[20:44:33]

Demerzel:

the extra e was for emotion

[20:46:13]

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[20:47:30]

sphery:

skd5aner: > . Z End

[20:47:36]

skd5aner:

thanks...

[20:50:17]

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[20:55:34]

skd5aner:

It doesn't make much sense that the defaults for FFWD and RWD for Music are PgUp PgDown

[20:56:51]

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[20:57:46]

sgsax:

maybe if you have one of those MS kbds that have the navigation keys turned sideways

[20:57:53]

sgsax:

it makes more sense

[20:58:42]

skd5aner:

Well, I guess i'm just saying... if you have TV Playback keys for FFWD and RWND... then they should match the same keys for Music

[20:59:13]

skd5aner:

otherwise, on a remote – rewind on music != rewind on TV... yet it's the "Rewind" button

[20:59:27]

sgsax:

ah, I missed the context

[20:59:48]

sgsax:

are those customizable shortcuts?

[20:59:58]

skd5aner:

well, all keybindings are customizable...

[21:00:03]

skd5aner:

not sure if that's what you mean?

[21:00:09]

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[21:00:37]

sgsax:

yes, was just thinking you could make your own mappings that made more sense to you

[21:00:58]

sgsax:

whether or not the defaults are bugworthy I suppose it up for discussion

[21:01:01]

skd5aner:

yea... I'll have to, but just giving some feedback that the defaults might need to be re-looked at

[21:08:08]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: thats the idea, submit information for stuff we like, so it doesnt get cancelled

[21:08:30]

wagnerrp:

and if SD can get some kickbacks that get passed onto us... why not

[21:09:55]

sphery:

skd5aner: agreed--consistency and key bindings never got together in MythTV

[21:10:56]

sphery:

skd5aner: I have some planned changes for key bindings that will make it easier (you won't ever re-define key lists--just "inherit" them from previously-defined actions (often in higher-level contexts))

[21:11:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: hmmm, I guess. :) as long as it's all legit and all

[21:11:09]

sphery:

and you'll be able to specify/import keybindings "presets"

[21:11:27]

sphery:

so you could set yours up, export them, then let others import them--think of it as key bindings "themes"

[21:11:52]

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[21:11:56]

sphery:

Beirdo: s/all legit and all/suppresses any voting that differs from my preferences/

[21:12:18]

sphery:

"We are currently expieriencing difficulties. Please try again, later."

[21:12:21]

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[21:18:02]

Beirdo:

sphery: hehe, yeah, well

[21:20:01]

wagnerrp:

thats right, [R] never actually watched Undercover Boss

[21:20:37]

wagnerrp:

nor does anyone ever watch any primetime dancing/talant/survival shows

[21:21:44]

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[21:22:16]

wagnerrp:

conan aired last night?

[21:26:26]

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[21:28:54]

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[21:28:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

It would be handy to be able to configure LIRC options in mythtv and the plugins separately. I had to make a change for mythmusic that annoyed my users when applied for recordings.

[21:30:07]

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[21:30:59]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: You won't lose any capability (you'll actually gain some). More than anything, though, this will make it easier to maintain consistency where appropriate

[21:31:17]

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[21:31:21]

sphery:

you'll be able to add overrides of key bindings in lower contexts,too

[21:31:30]

JEDIDIAH__:

well, the "gaining of capability" was the problem. a new strange behaivor was introduced into the other module.

[21:31:48]

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[21:43:29]

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[21:48:12]

CyberKnet:

Newegg shipped!

[21:48:18]

CyberKnet:

w00t w00t

[21:49:40]

CyberKnet:

Bah. shipped from California. Too bad, if it had shipped from their TN warehouse I would have had it on Thursday.

[21:49:54]

stevieman:

can someone help me get lirc, irexec and sdlmame working together? I know it's not a mythtv issue but I can't find any useful information that helps get this fixed. I'm running mythbuntu 10.04 so I don't have a lircrc but I do have ~/.lirc

[21:50:23]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: Perhaps someone in the mythbuntu channel might know more?

[21:50:36]

CyberKnet:

I run mythbuntu 10.10 but everything was set up automatically for me.

[21:50:44]

stevieman:

CyberKnet: there doesn't seem to be anyone there right now

[21:50:57]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: Yeah, that happens from time to time.

[21:51:22]

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[21:51:24]

wagnerrp:

stevieman: nearly all applications use a ~/.lircrc

[21:51:39]

stevieman:

irexec working with SDLmame is the last thing I need to get working before I can say my mythbox is complete

[21:51:45]

wagnerrp:

if you dont have one, then your distro is doing something screwy and you need to talk to them, or you have a misconfiguration

[21:53:21]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: Running mythbuntu 10.10 I have a ~/.lircrc

[21:53:30]

stevieman:

hmmmm

[21:53:33]

CyberKnet:

it includes several files from ~/.lirc/

[21:53:45]

CyberKnet:

i.e. include ~/.lirc/mythtv

[21:53:58]

CyberKnet:

try running mythbuntu-lirc-generator as that user

[21:54:51]

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[21:54:52]

stevieman:

well there you go, it's there now?!?

[21:55:03]

stevieman:

you guys are geniuses

[21:55:28]

stevieman:

and genius's too

[21:55:52]

stevieman:

it's time to go home, my fingers are not working properly anymore

[21:56:42]

msphobia:

Does anyone know of a way to allow mythbackend to start up while missing a tuner? I know the tuner is missing ahead of time, but want to leave it defined

[21:57:09]

wagnerrp:

msphobia: why leave it defined?

[21:57:13]

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[21:58:10]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: glad to help.

[21:58:12]

msphobia:

well, I have a single hdpvr, and a pair of slave backends, I want to be able to move it between the two slaves so, if I want to power one down for maintenance, all I have to do is move the cable over, and restart the backend and have it take back over

[21:58:22]

stevieman:

does it make more sense to in a .lirc file (irexec in this case) to have config = Escape instead of config=killall mame?

[21:59:10]

wagnerrp:

msphobia: just remove the source from the capture input

[21:59:43]

msphobia:

great, thanks

[21:59:55]

CyberKnet:

very small savings.

[22:00:04]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: No idea. I don't mame.

[22:00:31]

stevieman:

CyberKnet: K, well I give it a whirl tonight

[22:00:51]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: Truthfully, that is really the best answer.

[22:01:41]

sphery:

msphobia: really, whether you remove the source or remove the entire card, you'll still have to use mythtv-setup to set it up for the other system when you move it, so you should just do it right and remove the whole capture card (which will also disconnect its inputs)

[22:01:59]

stevieman:

CyberKnet: yah, well atleast with the file included in the .lircrc file things should be a little better!

[22:02:00]

sphery:

capture cards without connected inputs aren't supported

[22:02:21]

sphery:

it can cause data issues that will break things at some "random" point in the future

[22:02:26]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: so the ~/.lircrc wasn't there at all before?

[22:02:51]

sphery:

(i.e. may seem to work for 6 months, then everything breaks, then you clean up the mess, reconfigure things, it seems to work for 3 months, then everything breaks, ...)

[22:03:24]

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[22:03:38]

stevieman:

CyberKnet: Well I tried editing it before but all I got was a blank screen so the file wasn't there. I probably had a typo or maybe I was in the wrong directory at the time

[22:03:52]

CyberKnet:

stevieman: it happens... don't worry about it :)

[22:04:21]

stevieman:

CyberKnet: Yah, I'm going to blame it on my lack of sleep :)

[22:04:38]

msphobia:

sphery: I'm sure it's not recommended or supported, but what about simply modifying the capturecard table to put the card on a bogus host, then just modify it back on failover?

[22:05:30]

sphery:

why not just buy another $20 capture card and run a supported config? :)

[22:05:55]

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[22:05:59]

sphery:

or just run mythtv-setup when you change the, er, MythTV setup

[22:06:02]

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[22:06:26]

msphobia:

sphery: well, hdpvrs are a bit more pricey than that, I do split my more plentiful tuners across the two hosts

[22:06:35]

sphery:

if you're moving the capture card frequently, something is definitely wrong with the design :)

[22:06:50]

msphobia:

perhaps I'm unaware, but you have to blow away all your capture cards when you want to remove one, no?

[22:07:14]

sphery:

yeah, and it takes seconds to run mythtv-setup, define an HD-PVR, then connect a(n already existing) video source to its input

[22:07:29]

sphery:

no, just hit D

[22:07:33]

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[22:07:42]

sphery:

technically, the DELETE keybinding, but it defaults to D

[22:08:00]

sphery:

so highlight the one to delete, then D

[22:08:00]

msphobia:

oh, that makes the whole thing much more convenient, I thought that mythtv-setup did not support deleting single tuners

[22:08:14]

sphery:

yeah, it would be annoying if you had to delete all every time

[22:08:14]

sphery:

:)

[22:08:35]

CyberKnet:

msphobia: crisis averted

[22:08:39]

CyberKnet:

usability saves the day!

[22:08:47]

sphery:

glad you thought to ask that question--I hadn't thought that might be the point of confusion

[22:10:31]

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[22:10:34]

msphobia:

yes, that makes reconfiguring things much nicer, I always dreaded removing a capture card

[22:11:08]

msphobia:

thanks for the help

[22:12:52]

JEDIDIAH__:

why not just setup this device for all of the machines you want to use it on and then plug it in as needed with no further configuration. it will look like a bunch of broken tuners, but it should work.

[22:13:11]

msphobia:

that was my initial idea, but the backends will not start without the tuner being connected

[22:13:19]

msphobia:

(and I have other tuners on those machines)

[22:13:25]

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[22:13:53]

JEDIDIAH__:

I thought the limitaiton was that just A tuner had to be available, not ALL defined tuners.

[22:13:54]

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[22:14:18]

msphobia:

my backend would not start in that scenario

[22:14:38]

JEDIDIAH__:

...that's not what I would expect.

[22:15:48]

sphery:

you definitely don't want to configure broken tuners in MythTV

[22:15:53]

sphery:

it's not designed to allow that

[22:15:58]

msphobia:

really this all started when I had the single master backend + all tuners die on me, had one very angry wife for the week or so it took to get things back up and running. Now I have a dedicated master backend with no tuners as a VM that floats from host to host using KVM live migration and drbd block replication (same for my sql server), I had my slave backends virtualized as well, but the performance degradation was too much, s

[22:16:26]

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[22:16:31]

sphery:

the tuner-less backend will be supported one of these days

[22:16:45]

sphery:

actually, I'm pretty sure it won't even start up in 0.24

[22:17:09]

msphobia:

a tuner-less master backend works quite well for me, probably not true for slaves though

[22:17:15]

sphery:

but I hope that we'll get to split up mythbackend maybe for 0.25

[22:17:36]

sphery:

well, a tuner-less backend (master or remote) has always been unsupported

[22:17:48]

sphery:

and in 0.24 I'm 99.99999999% positive it won't even start up

[22:18:05]

sphery:

so you'll either need to fix your configuration or not upgrade

[22:18:10]

sphery:

until it's actually supported

[22:18:12]

JEDIDIAH__:

a tunerless master control makes a certain amount of sense. being able to restart only part of a backend would also been useful.

[22:18:23]

msphobia:

I am running off of an SVN that's maybe 3 weeks old?

[22:18:25]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: yeah, the plan is to break mythbackend into a bunch of pieces

[22:18:31]

JEDIDIAH__:

cool

[22:18:46]

msphobia:

so... unless it's recent, the tunerless master backend is still working in .24

[22:18:56]

sphery:

one piece would be the scheduler, data access, etc., another would be recording, another would be jobqueue (actually, that will almost definitely be the existing mythjobqueue program)

[22:19:17]

CyberKnet:

sphery: that would make a lot of sense, and fit with the unix philosophy very well too.

[22:19:25]

sphery:

CyberKnet: exactly

[22:19:42]

sphery:

msphobia: wanna do a mythbackend --version and pastebin its output?

[22:20:25]

sphery:

then again, it may be that it only fails if no capture cards are defined anywhere...

[22:20:28]

CyberKnet:

sphery: I'd help with that goal ... but my C and C++ are nonexistant. And MythTV doesn't take contributions in my language of choice ;)

[22:20:43]

sphery:

yeah, the splitting is actually easy

[22:20:45]

CyberKnet:

Unless we want to rewrite the scheduler in C#? :D

[22:20:50]

sphery:

the hard part is convincing other devs :)

[22:21:03]

sphery:

fortunately, one with some pull also thinks it's a good plan

[22:21:11]

CyberKnet:

sphery: There's a strong case for "if it aint broke"...

[22:21:18]

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[22:21:36]

sphery:

(really, I mentioned the idea as "the logicial conclusion to the idea of a tunerless backend", and he took it and ran with it and made it into a good plan/design)

[22:21:41]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Let alone the idea of working on something that isn't a bug fix or a feature add...

[22:21:53]

msphobia:

sphery: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/8vfrDvfF

[22:22:15]

sphery:

I wasn't even that serious about it when I mentioned it, but I'm /very/ glad he saw the good in it

[22:22:17]

JEDIDIAH__:

well, tunerless backends is something that people have been doing whether it's supported or not.

[22:22:54]

JEDIDIAH__:

my own master backend has no tuner hardware attached to it. It's mainly just a whole lot of storage.

[22:22:59]

sphery:

msphobia: cool... thanks. It seems that if you have /any/ capture cards defined on any host, it will run

[22:23:21]

JEDIDIAH__:

...there is the HDHR though.

[22:23:29]

sphery:

I'm kind of disappointed--I thought someone changed something that actually made it so you couldn't run in an unsupported configuration that has known issues

[22:23:42]

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[22:23:44]

sphery:

but, whatever... we'll just have to break up mythbackend for 0.25, then it won't matter

[22:23:46]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Actually, I've very nearly looked at media portal several times because it's fully written in C# and I would be able to contribute. Oh well.

[22:24:07]

CyberKnet:

sphery: but the lack of built in comm skip kind of stops it :)

[22:24:24]

sphery:

CyberKnet: come on, if you know C#, you can do C++. Only challenge is a) learning Qt framework and b) learning MythTV code

[22:24:31]

JEDIDIAH__:

comm skip is definitely a killer feature.

[22:24:33]

sphery:

but those are just a matter of spending the time using them

[22:24:51]

sphery:

yeah, I can't imagine life without commercial skip

[22:25:00]

JEDIDIAH__:

figuring out the code is the big problem with contributing to any project.

[22:25:14]

CyberKnet:

sphery: yeah. I'm hugely hamstrung without intellisense in my IDE :)

[22:25:30]

sphery:

when traveling, sometimes something I'd like to watch will come on a channel that I don't get, but I generally can't handle actually watching it Live with commercials, etc.

[22:25:37]

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[22:25:45]

sphery:

(comes on a channel that the hotel gets and I don't)

[22:26:33]

CyberKnet:

It kills me when I have to watch commercials. I thought LiveTV was the killer feature of MythTV when I first started looking at it / installing it oh so many years ago.

[22:26:44]

CyberKnet:

I think I've watched maybe three hours cumulative time of live tv.

[22:26:47]

CyberKnet:

maybe.

[22:26:51]

CyberKnet:

It's probably less.

[22:27:03]

CyberKnet:

TV on /my/ time. That's the killer feature.

[22:27:06]

JEDIDIAH__:

A PVR quickly cures you of most interest in "LiveTV"

[22:27:11]

sphery:

yeah, even when I go to a friend's house and we're watching some show on TV, it's annoying.

[22:27:24]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: it really /should/, but I can't explain the love for it on the -users list

[22:27:38]

sphery:

now if it were the mythtv-non-users list, it would make more sense, but...

[22:27:48]

JEDIDIAH__:

I said "most", not "all"

[22:27:52]

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[22:27:56]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Oh come on!

[22:28:00]

sphery:

well, it killed me of all interest in it

[22:28:06]

sphery:

I see no reason to ever use it

[22:28:11]

sphery:

other than "background noise"

[22:28:18]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Did I just see you infer that there should be reason on the mythtv-users list????

[22:28:21]

CyberKnet:

really?

[22:28:34]

sphery:

but then again, better playlists would make that better

[22:28:36]

JEDIDIAH__:

Not everything in life is pre-scheduled.

[22:28:56]

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[22:29:06]

sphery:

then you could actually have background of things that are actually interesting instead of whatever's on whatever channel you left tuned

[22:29:22]

sphery:

yeah, not everything in life is pre-scheduled, but everything in life can be recorded

[22:29:24]

CyberKnet:

sphery: I have gigabytes of stuff like that.

[22:29:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, I changed the code that prevented startup when there were no tuners. did that quite a while ago. It looks like I must have forgot to commit it as a separate patch though. :( http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/24245/tr . . . _helpers.cpp

[22:30:15]

skd5aner:

after owning it for 2 years, and it sitting in the box, I finally programmed my Nevo Q50 remote... success!

[22:30:18]

CyberKnet:

You know ... I was sure that "TV on my time" or "TV on your time" was the tag line of one of the DVRs out there...

[22:30:34]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: with r27071 I tried to start up mythbackend after having run a test of Delete all capture cards for a user (and forgetting I had deleted them all), and it wouldn't start

[22:30:46]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I'm pretty sure it still won't start if no capture cards are defined

[22:31:12]

** skd5aner must be the only one who still sees the value in Live TV in addition to PVR functionality **

[22:31:15]

Captain_Murdoch:

must be another check somewhere. we used to abort when setupTVs returned false because there were no cards. maybe there's another check (now).

[22:31:40]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: yeah... I also got the Perhaps you should re-read, IIRC

[22:31:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

I remember talking with a user at the time about this and thought he was working ok with the patch in place.

[22:31:53]

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[22:32:25]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: still, we have to sell the others on your plan for mythbackend separation of duties--it's the best thing since sliced mythbackend

[22:32:37]

sphery:

that's the best fix for tunerless backends, IMHO

[22:33:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, I agree. it's one of the reasons I mentioned backend stability in one my emails today. :) especially if we move the DB into the master, I don't want the DB going down because of an issue recording on the master.

[22:33:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

one binary to rule them all. dlopen the rest. :)

[22:34:22]

Captain_Murdoch:

ln -s mythtv mythpreviewgen and run mythpreviewgen and it dlopen's libmythpreviewgen.so. j/k.

[22:34:33]

JEDIDIAH__:

an outside DB is very useful actually.

[22:34:36]

Captain_Murdoch:

shouldn't say that in public... it'll be on slashdot tomorrow.

[22:34:59]

Captain_Murdoch:

JEDIDIAH__, so's a controlled environment.

[22:35:00]

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[22:35:12]

** Captain_Murdoch heads home and leaves sphery to debate that case. **

[22:35:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

You're first name is Steve isn't it?

[22:35:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

no

[22:35:27]

JEDIDIAH__:

that level of control is unecessary.

[22:35:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

:) and I got the reference

[22:36:50]

CyberKnet:

"move the DB into the master" ?

[22:37:42]

kormoc:

embed the database into the MBE so it's setup-less

[22:37:45]

skd5aner:

Why is it the lirc wouldn't be "repeating" a button press when that button is held down – for example, holding the "down" keep to scroll through lists?

[22:38:02]

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[22:38:09]

CyberKnet:

So where is the ability for editing the data outside of the backend?

[22:38:13]

kormoc:

skd5aner, because you told it not to repeat?

[22:38:15]

skd5aner:

in irw, it definitely is incrementing the button press for as long as it's held

[22:38:21]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, via API's

[22:38:41]

skd5aner:

kormoc: where would it be told to not honor a repeat?

[22:38:47]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: so someone essentially will have to write a "MythTV Database Editor" instead of us using phpmyadmin?

[22:38:57]

JEDIDIAH__:

The main problem now with "setup" is that you have to configure mysql to accept remote connections instead of everything going through myth.

[22:39:02]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, perhaps, yes

[22:39:07]

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[22:39:10]

CyberKnet:

blergh.

[22:39:14]

JEDIDIAH__:

...reinventing the database badly.

[22:39:24]

** kormoc blinks **

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[22:39:35]

kormoc:

JEDIDIAH__, embedding myself is reinventing the database?

[22:39:37]

skd5aner:

for example... here's what IRW is reporting when I hold down a button – http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1986790

[22:39:45]

skd5aner:

but, mythtv only reflects a single button press

[22:39:53]

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[22:39:57]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, or we could just give a port that exposes the mysql engine and you could use existing tools with that

[22:39:59]

kormoc:

who knows

[22:40:02]

kormoc:

it's all up in the air

[22:40:05]

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[22:40:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

probably

[22:40:22]

** kormoc sighs **

[22:40:28]

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[22:40:29]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: Perhaps. It's not for me to say. But editing settings in mysql has saved my bacon more than once before because of changes that the frontend let me make.

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[22:40:50]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: I'd be really upset if I got in that position again and couldn't directly edit.

[22:40:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

having a proper database behind myth is definitely a feature.

[22:41:08]

kormoc:

JEDIDIAH__, so mysql isn't a proper database?

[22:41:09]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: But then, perhaps I could write an "update setting" utility that accessed the API.

[22:41:27]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, and we're fixing settings (hopefully) so it'll never be a problem

[22:41:54]

** JEDIDIAH__ peers at the m-80 that just landed at his feet. Contemplates pulling the pin... **

[22:42:00]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: perhaps. Never is a strong word. (the setting I remember that broke it most was switching from QT to OpenGL painter for some reason)

[22:42:18]

kormoc:

CyberKnet, ooh, you can override those via the command line anyway

[22:42:29]

kormoc:

-O ThemePainter=qt

[22:42:30]

CyberKnet:

I forget why it blew up so badly... but it was basically a "can't open the frontend" situation.

[22:43:03]

CyberKnet:

kormoc: Yeah, that's what I would get told now.

[22:43:08]

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[22:44:53]

skd5aner:

nm, I figured it out – you have to explicitely input a repeat parameter into lircrc if you want it to acknowledge repeats

[22:45:24]

kormoc:

running an embedded mysql allows us to actually be authoritative in our setup and will allow us to backup successfully in all cases rather then some, it allows us to rely on features not always present on all distros, prevents character set issues, etc

[22:45:36]

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[22:45:36]

kormoc:

it really simplifies matters and reduces bugs

[22:45:48]

kormoc:

but it's also in the foggy future of maybe

[22:46:16]

skd5aner:

kormoc: well, there are a few things that make direct SQL access nice

[22:46:37]

skd5aner:

so long as certain functionality/features aren't available via the UI

[22:46:55]

kormoc:

like?

[22:46:57]

skd5aner:

for example, I needed to reset my keybindings today – the only way to do it, per sphery, is to truncate the tables

[22:47:14]

skd5aner:

because the functionality hasn't been written to do so within the UI

[22:47:25]

kormoc:

and we can add that functionality

[22:47:28]

skd5aner:

and, actually – he said he DID write the functionality, but didn't write the button

[22:47:55]

skd5aner:

kormoc: true, just saying those kind of things should be identified and remediated/added/fixed before going to an embedded DB

[22:48:04]

kormoc:

we're not gonna turn off your database tomorrow (I'll be next wednesday) ;)

[22:48:26]

skd5aner:

kormoc: well, I'm not the one arguing for or against – I see the merits to both sides of that arguement

[22:48:41]

skd5aner:

that being said, there have been DOZENS of occasions where I was greatful that I had direct DB access

[22:49:11]

skd5aner:

another example I can give you – when you rescan for channels, you lose a bit of metadata because everything is deleted and re-added

[22:49:35]

skd5aner:

so, I've been able to use SQL JOINS to take a backup copy of my channels table, and copy over the channel icon paths to the new table

[22:49:40]

skd5aner:

saved me hours of manual effort

[22:49:47]

kormoc:

Yeah, I understand, but there's even more folks who screw things up badly cause they don't know what they're doing

[22:49:53]

skd5aner:

indeed

[22:50:22]

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[22:51:01]

JEDIDIAH__:

perhaps those of us that manually tinker with the data without shooting ourselves in the foot should be more vocal... '-)

[22:51:13]

JEDIDIAH__:

of course you are going to hear about the disasters.

[22:51:15]

kormoc:

ugh

[22:51:23]

kormoc:

noaXess_kubuntu, you don't have to be more vocal

[22:51:32]

kormoc:

that was no,

[22:51:38]

skd5aner:

it's a good point...

[22:51:38]

sphery:

skd5aner: when you find that the API doesn't provide necessary functionality, then you modify the API to provide that functionality. After all, if it is *necessary* functionality...

[22:51:39]

kormoc:

you're vocal enough for the majority

[22:52:05]

sphery:

and kormoc thanks for arguing the cause for me--I was on the phone :)

[22:52:19]

JEDIDIAH__:

quite often enough I find bit banging the database to be just a lot more convenient. Much like the whole GUI vs CLI thing.

[22:52:33]

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[22:53:01]

skd5aner:

sphery: agreed – but I'm saying, thought and identification should go into why people try to access the DB directly, so that those API holes can be plugged BEFORE embedding a DB

[22:53:14]

skd5aner:

not after

[22:53:16]

kormoc:

skd5aner, we never claimed not to be doing that

[22:53:18]

kormoc:

ugh!

[22:53:23]

sphery:

skd5aner: the channel thing is definitely a necessary functionality, but instead of a bunch of users who /think/ they understand all the data requirements writing their own scripts (or worse, copy/pasting them from a random blog on the 'net) to do direct/raw data access, someone needs to put that functionality into MythTV

[22:53:37]

kormoc:

it's like you guys just assume we're idiots with a plan to destroy myth

[22:53:38]

skd5aner:

kormoc: whoa whoa whoa... just chatting... it's all good :)

[22:53:56]

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[22:53:58]

sphery:

JEDIDIAH__: same goes for you--if you're tinkering with your data and doing something useful for it, why not help the community and make that functionality available to /everyone/

[22:54:02]

sphery:

that's what FOSS is all about

[22:54:11]

skd5aner:

kormoc: calm down... I've never been one of "those guys" you refer to

[22:54:16]

sphery:

that and re-writing software in Python when someone demands you do so

[22:54:22]

kormoc:

indeed

[22:54:31]

kormoc:

We're gonna stealz all your data cookies

[22:55:12]

skd5aner:

kormoc: I'm just thinking outloud here with you guys, that's all... I'd appreciate a bit more understanding before you go off on me

[22:55:19]

sphery:

skd5aner: I think as long as people have a way to hack things, they won't be motivated to do things right, so until we go embedded, we won't be able to identify the "things people do"--let alone implement them

[22:55:32]

skd5aner:

Again – I never said I was against embedding...

[22:55:33]

skd5aner:

UGH!

[22:55:34]

skd5aner:

;)

[22:55:38]

sphery:

for reference, see all the hacks of scripts out there

[22:55:46]

sphery:

yeah, just voicing my side :)

[22:56:01]

skd5aner:

You don't have to convience me... find someone who's not in the choir to go preach to ;)

[22:56:15]

sphery:

heh

[22:56:20]

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[22:56:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

It's like the quote from Twain: "I would not want to join any organization that would have me as a member."

[22:56:33]

skd5aner:

love that quote

[22:56:39]

JEDIDIAH__:

there is a wide gap between personal hack and something that should be committed upstream.

[22:57:00]

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[22:57:04]

sphery:

right, but if you need a personal hack, then there's definitely some problem that should be fixed properly

[22:57:40]

sphery:

for example, personal hack = myth.find_orphans.pl, fixed properly is having the backend automatically manage orphaned files and data

[22:57:43]

skd5aner:

All I was getting at, is there's a lot more to the discussion of "embed" or "don't embed" – and I know you guys have thought of that, but as usual – it's impossible to see every scenario and I was just bringing a few up that I personally have ran into

[22:58:00]

skd5aner:

nothing more, nothing less :)

[22:58:22]

sphery:

no one should have to run a perl script that's not properly updated/that can delete all their recordings (files /and/ metadata) if they pass the wrong arguments to it

[22:58:23]

JEDIDIAH__:

what do you gain? what do you lose? it's not just about academic aesthetics.

[22:59:05]

skd5aner:

sphery: very true – but, to play devil's advocate, what happens when we get in the scenario of no one taking the time/ignoring the problem all together to the point where a hack is all that's available?

[22:59:25]

sphery:

necessity is the mother of motivation

[22:59:36]

skd5aner:

no defending hacks, btw, just that sometimes that's the best people can do – especially when something isn't a priority to those who have the ability to address it

[22:59:40]

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[22:59:45]

skd5aner:

sphery: precisley

[22:59:50]

sphery:

i.e. if only a hack is available, and we embed the DB and the hack doesn't work any longer, then someone is motivated to do it right

[22:59:54]

wagnerrp:

im still on the fence about providing some sort of MYSQL interface even when it is embedded

[23:00:00]

skd5aner:

but, would you think that managing orphans is something that should be core to Myth?

[23:00:08]

JEDIDIAH__:

No. you just make the program lamer and less useful.

[23:00:22]

sphery:

skd5aner: yes, I do

[23:00:24]

JEDIDIAH__:

myth should certainly sort out it's own orphans.

[23:00:31]

wagnerrp:

im fully in support of an embedded database

[23:00:36]

sphery:

if mythtv users have orphaned files and metadata, then mythtv should manage it

[23:00:47]

wagnerrp:

but im not sure whether we should be able to issue manual queries against it over mythproto

[23:00:52]

skd5aner:

sphery: then why has it not been for the past 7 years?

[23:01:04]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I'm hoping you'll like the plan I have to make it unnecessary

[23:01:05]

skd5aner:

sphery: a hack is all we had and no one was willing to do it "the right way"

[23:01:25]

skd5aner:

full disclosure – I've never used myth.find_orphans.pl

[23:01:33]

sphery:

skd5aner: right, because they can fall back to a hack that breaks their db

[23:01:41]

sphery:

and it's easier

[23:01:43]

sphery:

and people are lazy

[23:01:50]

sphery:

so, eventually, I'll do it right

[23:01:51]

CyberKnet:

I've used some orphan script at some point...

[23:01:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the real complaint i have about it is that as the code stands, it is not simple to add a new data method to mythprotocol

[23:02:03]

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[23:02:05]

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[23:02:08]

sphery:

even though I have never had an orphaned file or metadata

[23:02:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: for it to work properly, the backend protocol would have to become far more modular

[23:02:40]

CyberKnet:

sphery/kormoc: I want to say that on the majority, I agree completely with you... if you find something you can't do, you add a way to do it.

[23:02:42]

sphery:

wagnerrp: right, it will be generic, but it won't be direct SQL

[23:03:02]

skd5aner:

sphery: so, I guess the question is... do you embed, then discover everything that's missing/broken/hacked and then resolve – or do you resolve all you can discover beforehand, fix, then embed when you don't believe it'll break anything?

[23:03:08]

CyberKnet:

sphery/kormoc: In the heat of the moment in the middle of an issue where I can't do something ... I'll hate it, and it will cause me grief until it gets added ... which could be months out.

[23:03:10]

sphery:

anyway, it's much easier to show people once I get it done :)

[23:03:35]

sphery:

skd5aner: I believe there will never exist a "when you don't believe it'll break anything", therefore, when is a moot point

[23:03:45]

skd5aner:

well...

[23:04:05]

sphery:

I'm a rip the band-aid off kind of guy

[23:04:07]

skd5aner:

I guess, "knowingly break" versus due diligance

[23:04:09]

JEDIDIAH__:

borking your data is just another disaster. You should be accounting for disasters anyways.

[23:04:12]

skd5aner:

if you follow

[23:04:34]

skd5aner:

So, shoot first and ask forgiveness later? ;)

[23:04:41]

CyberKnet:

sphery/kormoc: But I understand the pain you are trying to avoid, and since I don't have a better solution, I am respectfully withdrawing.

[23:05:00]

sphery:

skd5aner: I can guarantee it will not break anything in the core MythTV and plugins and supported functionality (other than through unintentional bugs that exist in all code).

[23:05:26]

sphery:

it will likely break some unsupported hacks--including already-broken hacks like the find orphans and import recordings scripts

[23:05:47]

sphery:

but even though those scripts are known broken, people still run them even though they break their data

[23:06:05]

sphery:

and because of that, /we/ become responsible for changing MythTV to work with their broken data

[23:06:09]

skd5aner:

What about the stuff that can be achieved extremely easily in SQL but isn't feasible within the UI? what about scripts/hacks that aren't "broken"?

[23:06:13]

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[23:06:24]

CyberKnet:

sphery: Yes. And although some of us back up our data responsibly before runninng unknown scripts, I do understand that not everyone does.

[23:06:29]

skd5aner:

again, please don't take this as me arguing... I'm just trying to learn

[23:06:35]

sphery:

so we really need to stop these clients that directly access the data without understanding the data requirements from being able to break the data

[23:06:59]

sphery:

CyberKnet: yeah, but even if you back up your DB, if you don't notice the breakage immediately, the backup is useless

[23:07:26]

CyberKnet:

sphery: indeed.

[23:07:35]

CyberKnet:

sphery: contrib scripts can be evil like that.

[23:07:37]

skd5aner:

I mean – again, probably the only process oriented thing that I HATE about mythtv is rescanning for channels... it makes my life a living hell for a day trying to get things back to normal – and honestly, it's sort of the nature of the beast

[23:07:58]

skd5aner:

but at least I can get in there and save several hours with some SQL scripts I've created to help re-create some of the channel metadata

[23:08:00]

sphery:

skd5aner: yeah, but when we do scanning properly, it won't be a problem :)

[23:08:11]

CyberKnet:

I need to go laugh :)

[23:08:19]

skd5aner:

sphery s/when/if

[23:08:23]

sphery:

and that's /definitely/ something that should be fixed in MythTV for *all* users instead of just your personal script that fixes it for you

[23:08:31]

sphery:

no, when

[23:08:33]

skd5aner:

sphery: totally with you

[23:08:52]

sphery:

especially if someone can't fall back on a simple hack to fix something, that something will get fixed properly

[23:09:00]

JEDIDIAH__:

a "configuration" dump would be a very handy thing.

[23:09:03]

skd5aner:

sphery: but, I just feel like it's so low on the priority list, that the when might be a long time after the embedded DB takes hold ;)

[23:09:20]

JEDIDIAH__:

you're overly optimistic sphery

[23:09:25]

skd5aner:

+1

[23:09:33]

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[23:09:35]

sphery:

skd5aner: no, because once the embedded DB takes hold, it will become much higher priority for /you/, so you'll get it done

[23:09:38]

sphery:

:)

[23:09:43]

skd5aner:

rofl

[23:09:45]

skd5aner:

love you guys!

[23:10:03]

sphery:

This is what I call FOSS tough love

[23:10:10]

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[23:10:43]

sphery:

that said, in truth, if someone does about 10 seconds of Googling, they will find that whether it's embedded MySQL or MySQL, you still have direct access to the database using standard SQL in the mysql client

[23:11:05]

sphery:

the only difference is that the barrier to entry is a bit higher for the embedded DB case

[23:11:10]

skd5aner:

That's like me complaining to the government about something that's high priority to me and them telling me to go fix it myself – not like I can get in there and legislate it myself

[23:11:25]

sphery:

so people /really/ have to think twice before they start messing with the data directly

[23:11:48]

sphery:

skd5aner: that's the great thing about FOSS--it truly is a democracy

[23:12:05]

skd5aner:

well, that might be the only thing I'd have to truely disagree with you on there sphery

[23:12:14]

sphery:

the purest of democracies in that everyone has equal power to make changes (even if that change doesn't get accepted into upstream :)

[23:12:45]

sphery:

that said, it's much easier for those of us who do software development for a living to make said changes than for people without training/experience

[23:13:00]

skd5aner:

I seem to recall a dozen times various devs saying they don't care what users think, users don't get a vote, and I've seen several people's ideas and patches get turned down too... sorry, but FOSS is not a democracy

[23:13:13]

sphery:

right, users don't get a vote

[23:13:14]

sphery:

code does

[23:13:17]

sphery:

patches do :)

[23:13:30]

skd5aner:

only if the people in charge decide they like the patch and will commit it

[23:13:41]

sphery:

but even if they're rejected for upstream, they can be used on local builds

[23:13:57]

sphery:

though, really, when they are rejected upstream, it's generally because the implementation isn't right

[23:13:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

some stuff requires a bit more thought than tossing it at the wall and hoping it sticks.

[23:14:02]

skd5aner:

heh, Freedom != democracy

[23:14:35]

sphery:

skd5aner: it's a democracy in that you have full access to the code

[23:14:41]

skd5aner:

sphery: usually true, but you and I both know (even with recent topics of debate around these parts strictly between the devs) that opinions can outweigh good ideas/patches

[23:14:44]

sphery:

MythTV isn't a democracy, but it's source code is

[23:14:54]

sphery:

so you can run your own modified version of our code if you really like

[23:14:55]

skd5aner:

So I can vote on what goes into the source?

[23:15:09]

sphery:

yes, into /your/ copy of the source :)

[23:15:24]

skd5aner:

eh, I think we're violently arguing the same thing only not...

[23:15:32]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[23:15:48]

sphery:

I'm justing saying that people can run whatever changes they want in the MythTV code

[23:16:18]

sphery:

but the MythTV developers will generally only accept changes that improve MythTV for most users or--if nothing else--make maintaining/supporting MythTV easier for themselves

[23:16:47]

sphery:

and just because some functionality is useful doesn't mean that we will accept a less-than-ideal implementation of it

[23:16:48]

skd5aner:

anyway – appreciate the back and forther here... please don't take offense to any opions expressed by skd5aner, for they are his and his alone and do not represent this channel, network, affiliates, developers, other users, or the general population as a whole

[23:16:55]

sphery:

same here

[23:17:26]

sphery:

these are my opinions and shouldn't be construed to represent those of other MythTV devs or the MythTV project in general--and all the things you said :)

[23:17:30]

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[23:17:52]

skd5aner:

heh – so says Michael "The Voice of Reason" Dean

[23:18:08]

sphery:

anyway, given my history, you guys have a long time before you have to worry about embedded db

[23:19:22]

skd5aner:

you know... at this point, I would be way more willing to push for an embedded DB... not that it would make a bunch of difference to my setup (I still use MySQL for several other purposes), but because – to your point – some things would have to be bumped up the priority list ;)

[23:19:41]

skd5aner:

No Pain, No Gain

[23:20:11]

sphery:

exactly

[23:21:19]

cromag:

5:46.49 mythcommflag <-- is that normal for a 30minute show ?

[23:22:01]

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[23:22:11]

cromag:

without commercials.

[23:22:46]

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[23:23:12]

kormoc:

why are you commflagging if you know there are no commercials?

[23:23:16]

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[23:24:09]

cromag:

kormoc: i didnt know i was, i must have added a rule to a wrong show.

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[23:32:16]

sphery:

cromag: if that's 5hrs 46min, it definitely sounds like the process is stuck

[23:33:33]

cromag:

well, if there is nothing that looks like a commercial, could that happen ?

[23:34:44]

kormoc:

nah

[23:34:46]

kormoc:

shouldn't affect it

[23:34:58]

cromag:

ok.

[23:35:29]

cromag:

i've killed the process, hopefully it'l be fine

[23:38:19]

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[23:45:29]

sphery:

cromag: yeah, generally when a job is stuck, that's your only option

[23:45:58]

sphery:

on the bright side, you didn't need any commflag data for it, so you won't be missing anything

[23:47:46]

cromag:

correct :)

[23:50:54]

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