MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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Error at /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 229:
Undefined variable $query

Details:
    datetime:  2025-12-30 07:46:38 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  Undefined variable $query
    filename:  /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  229
Monday, October 11th, 2010, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:00] sphery: that plus brownies
[00:00:03] Batshua: Pokey.
[00:00:17] Batshua: I've got what may be either a really dumb question or just a really complicated one.
[00:00:33] Batshua: I've been having trouble with my backend staying up. My backend and frontend are on the same machine.
[00:00:52] Batshua: I've tried restarting it from the Terminal repeatedly.
[00:00:57] Beirdo: sphery: reload, see the latest? :)
[00:00:58] Batshua: Sometimes rebooting fixes it, sometimes it doesn't.
[00:01:21] Beirdo: I'll remove the last chunk
[00:01:25] Beirdo: whitespace only
[00:01:28] Batshua: Is there like, a known issue for why the backend might just ... die like that and not want to come back?
[00:02:09] sphery: Beirdo: looks good
[00:02:12] Beirdo: there
[00:02:14] wagnerrp: Batshua: need logs
[00:02:25] Beirdo: OK, I'll put that in Refs #7714
[00:02:29] Batshua: It's been a while since I looked, do they hide in /etc?
[00:02:30] dansushi (dansushi!~dan@147.4.211.193) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[00:02:34] sphery: Beirdo: thanks
[00:02:42] Beirdo: I hope it fixes :)
[00:02:50] wagnerrp: /var/log, as it has for decades
[00:03:00] Batshua: Erg, well, then that's where I'll look.
[00:03:11] ** Batshua uses more than one OS and can never remember where anything's hiding.  :/ **
[00:03:23] knightr: Hi guys! I tried adding an input group for my HVR2250 and for some weird reason it doesn't want to save it. Any idea what I could have done wrong?
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[00:03:33] wagnerrp: thats the standard posix place
[00:03:41] wagnerrp: knightr: continuing through to 'finish'
[00:04:35] sphery: wagnerrp: heh, on my system, no unprivileged user ever writes logs to /var/log (though some unprivileged apps do use syslog to write such that their messages end up there, but since Beirdo hasn't written the log rework patch, yet, my mythtv logs go under under my /srv/mythtv dir :)
[00:04:46] knightr: wagnerrp, pretty sure I did but give me a sec, I'll try it again... BTW, numbers are not allowed in there?
[00:05:00] sphery: though I do agree that in the real world, it makes a lot more sense for distros to put the logs in the standard place
[00:05:16] Beirdo: heh
[00:05:17] wagnerrp: dont actually know, never used input groups
[00:05:37] wagnerrp: sphery: well sure, none of my user accounts have write access to that folder
[00:05:47] Beirdo: I put a name rather than a number, knightr. It worked fine here
[00:05:54] wagnerrp: but non-syslog stuff gets each its own sub-folder to log to
[00:05:59] sphery: nor have I, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's display issues (where it's saved properly, but not reloaded/displayed properly) or even bugs in that
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[00:06:22] sphery: that = mythtv-setup/Qt code
[00:06:39] Beirdo: sphery: [26746]
[00:06:47] sphery: Beirdo: thanks... you're the man
[00:06:59] Beirdo: no problemo
[00:07:10] peteforsyth (peteforsyth!~peteforsy@wikipedia/peteforsyth) has quit (Quit: peteforsyth)
[00:07:13] Beirdo: crazy bugs are sometimes fun to hunt down.
[00:07:16] Beirdo: sometimes
[00:07:26] sphery: heh
[00:07:39] ** sphery vows to send all his crazy bugs Beirdo's way **
[00:07:48] Beirdo: oh oh
[00:07:49] Beirdo: heh
[00:07:52] sphery: heh, look, now I have none left
[00:08:23] knightr: wagnerrp, yep, that was the only choice (apart from back) and I did it every time...
[00:08:23] sphery: besides, as wagnerrp pointed out, I'm not supposed to actually be doing anything for MythTV--that's what the wiki page says
[00:08:35] knightr: Beirdo, that what I did too...
[00:08:42] knightr: nothings get inserted in the db...
[00:09:05] knightr: I think I'm going to switch to English to see if it could be translation related...
[00:11:57] Beirdo: weird
[00:12:31] Batshua: There's one thing I haven't tried yet; rebooting the cable box. Some kind of deep magic in that.
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[00:12:36] Batshua: (Yes, I am reading the logs.)
[00:12:58] wagnerrp: sphery: http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk/CGI/man-cgi?logger+1
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[00:13:26] wagnerrp: or... http://linux.die.net/man/1/logger
[00:14:20] sphery: yeah, I've used that in shell scripts before
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[00:14:45] sphery: mainly for logging messages for jobs I run through cron
[00:15:08] wagnerrp: i just dont like how syslog doesnt allow arbitrary facility names
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[00:17:00] knightr: no difference... It doesn't save it....
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[00:35:09] knightr: Beirdo, I found what I did wrong...
[00:35:18] sphery: wagnerrp: agreed... would be much nicer if it were more flexible
[00:35:49] Beirdo: cool
[00:36:09] knightr: I wanted to see how Input groups worked so I did not fill in all the fields in the first screen... Looks like if the source is not there it doesn't complain but doesn't save anything...
[00:36:25] Beirdo: heh
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[00:37:15] knightr: It's a small feature of that screen... :)
[00:37:44] sphery: wagnerrp: the plan Beirdo and I have discussed for the logging is to basically make the VERBOSE macro put a message into a queue that's then processed by one or more workers that log to the appropriate location at the appropriate verbosity--so you could have a file writer that writes to a log file, a DB writer that writes to the database, and a syslog writer that writes to syslog, etc.
[00:38:26] knightr: Looks like I have a permission problem somewhere though because I get this in my logs:2010-10–10 20:23:16.121 DVBChan(11:/dev/dvb/adapter1/frontend0) Warning: Opening DVB frontend device failed. eno: Device or resource busy (16)
[00:39:01] knightr: (maybe not a permission problem but a problem nonetheless...)
[00:39:03] sphery: would allow us to remove all the "parallel" logging code we have now for DB logging (which doesn't get used much, meaning that DB logging is mostly useless--it doesn't write out enough info to tell you what's happening) and all logging would use the same mechanisms, so allow identical control and no extra dev work for support
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[01:12:27] ** Beirdo slaps his DirecTV receiver. **
[01:12:37] Beirdo: I said channel 70, you pain in my butt
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[01:42:48] Batshua: Okay so I rebooted the cable box on a lark
[01:42:55] Batshua: and it looks like everything is working now
[01:43:14] Batshua: could the backend go down due to miscommunication between the box and the ... er, box?
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[01:47:31] wagnerrp: are you using firewire?
[01:49:54] Batshua: Affirmative.
[01:50:15] Batshua: I'm not sure why it breaks down like that, but every so often it's like the FW port on the cable box just dies.
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[02:03:38] sphery: heh, simpsons intro today is great
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[02:10:18] SteveGoodey: sphery: Care to elaborate?
[02:11:15] sphery: the couch gag turned ino a long intro showing the goings-on behind the scenes at the 20th Century Fox sweatshops
[02:12:19] sphery: and Beirdo would like Marge's consoling of Lisa, "Sweetie, you could still go to McGill, the Harvard of Canada."
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[02:13:46] knightr: Hi! Any idea what could cause MythBackend to report Device or resource busy (16) on a DVB device? I tried lsof and it did not report anything using it...
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[02:16:25] sphery: knightr: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/26694 related?
[02:16:34] sphery: what revision do you have?
[02:16:59] sphery: [26695] or higher of trunk or 0.23-fixes? If not, please try updating.
[02:17:34] Beirdo: hehe
[02:17:45] knightr: I checked out today so I have above that changeset...
[02:18:16] knightr: That would explain why MythBackend eventually gets it though...
[02:18:40] sphery: yeah, I think some bad drivers/kernel update/... got slipped into a recent update of a very popular distro
[02:18:48] knightr: Beirdo, do you have that same error message with your HVR-2250?
[02:19:16] knightr: sphery, it's stoth driver for the HVR-2250 which I got from his mercurial repository...
[02:19:18] sphery: so the problem isn't with myth, but now mythtv has code so it will keep tring up to 20 times
[02:19:20] Beirdo: error?
[02:19:39] knightr: Beirdo, Device or resource busy (16)...
[02:19:42] sphery: and trying, even
[02:19:45] Beirdo: nope
[02:19:54] sphery: this is the digital side of the 2250, right?
[02:19:56] Beirdo: what are you trying to do?
[02:19:59] knightr: OK, that's weird...
[02:20:27] knightr: For the Digital side I have to create DVB entries right?
[02:20:49] Beirdo: yes
[02:21:03] knightr: This is the error I get when I do that...
[02:21:13] Beirdo: and make sure that the digital and analog for each encoder are in input groups
[02:21:21] Beirdo: is the analog running?
[02:21:51] knightr: I created the entries but how do I know which one to put in which input group?
[02:21:58] Beirdo: ummm
[02:22:10] Beirdo: the first DVB and the first analog
[02:22:20] Beirdo: and then the second DVB and second analog
[02:22:29] knightr: that's what I did...
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[02:23:42] Beirdo: it's working fine here
[02:24:45] Beirdo: so... DirecTV yanked HBO from channel 70
[02:24:48] Beirdo: buggers
[02:25:54] knightr: I do have an additionnal DVB card which I don't currently use, maybe it's causing some sort of problem... I'll try removing it and reconfiguring my cards...
[02:26:24] Beirdo: maybe your numbering is off
[02:26:43] knightr: sphery, Beirdo, thanks!
[02:27:08] knightr: Beirdo, can we do udev rules for these things like the analog cards?
[02:27:21] Beirdo: should be able to
[02:27:38] knightr: I'll look into it...
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[02:27:55] Beirdo: I didn't on the digital side
[02:28:27] Beirdo: KERNEL=="video[0–9]*", ATTRS{vendor}=="0x1131", ATTRS{device}=="0x7164", ATTRS{subsystem_vendor}=="0x0070", ATTRS{subsystem_device}=="0x8891", ATTR{index}=="0", SYMLINK+="video-hvr0"
[02:28:36] Beirdo: that's what I did
[02:28:55] Beirdo: and ATTR{index}=="1" for the second encoder
[02:29:10] ** knightr going downstairs to try removing the unused DVB card and reconfiguring them... **
[02:29:22] knightr: Beirdo, thanks!
[02:29:27] Beirdo: no prob
[02:29:40] Beirdo: probably something similar would work for DVB side
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[02:42:09] wagnerrp: !seen [R]
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[02:46:04] Beirdo: that's what she said
[02:46:20] Beirdo: had to be done
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[03:03:29] Beirdo: fun fun fun
[03:03:54] Beirdo: just tweaked my lineup again
[03:05:24] knightr: Beirdo, the error is gone... Something must have gotten messed up in there (maybe because of that other DVB card).
[03:06:11] Beirdo: well cool
[03:06:33] knightr: I have other errors in this place which I'll try to dig up further... One of them is about multiplex (which this card should support) and the other is probably an incorrect setting somewhere...
[03:06:44] knightr: s/this/its
[03:08:19] ** knightr funny thing is I can't find the error in the source code by grepping for it... **
[03:10:21] clever: knightr: printf&friends can do that, you sometimes have to grep for shorter strings
[03:11:33] wagnerrp: knightr: right, it may be separated across multiple lines
[03:11:35] knightr: clever, currently trying that, I'm assuming there must be something dynamic in that string even thought there doesn't seem to be..
[03:11:52] knightr: wagnerrp, good point...
[03:12:10] knightr: wagnerrp, it's finding it in the binaries so that would make sense...
[03:16:30] knightr: wagnerrp, yep, the string is over two lines...
[03:16:37] ** knightr I found it... **
[03:18:17] knightr: // Should never get here unless there is a bug in the code somewhere.// If this happens, it can cause endless event loops.
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[03:18:47] clever: sounds like theres a bug in the code! :P
[03:19:52] Beirdo: heh
[03:21:42] wagnerrp: [R]: youre using mythfs with remote content, right?
[03:21:47] knightr: clever, or I did something unexpected... I had trouble setting one of the input group, maybe its related...
[03:21:52] [R]: wagnerrp: remote?
[03:22:04] wagnerrp: as in, not locally available on the machine running fuse
[03:22:19] [R]: no, its all local, but i hacked the bindings to force a filetransfer
[03:22:35] wagnerrp: but you are using the filetransfer code, over the backend socket?
[03:22:38] [R]: yes
[03:22:50] wagnerrp: huh... must be a bug in the rewritten FileTransfer
[03:22:55] wagnerrp: local works, remote doesnt
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[03:24:57] knightr: clever, that pc went through a os upgrade done without reinstalling so maybe something got hosed...
[03:25:33] clever: knightr: cant really tell without knowing what the code is doing, but its getting late here
[03:27:01] wagnerrp: definately something wrong with FileTransfer
[03:28:32] wagnerrp: bah... event update code doesnt work either
[03:29:51] knightr: clever, np, I'm calling it a day too... I still have a bad cold so it might not be the best day to try to debug it anyway... BTW, it's DVB card related...
[03:31:06] [R]: this directv installer is bitching about not having gps
[03:31:15] wagnerrp: thats why, missing a space in my regular expression
[03:31:18] [R]: what did they do before gps was in widescale use? blah
[03:31:35] Beirdo: hehe
[03:31:36] wagnerrp: what are they using gps for?
[03:31:46] [R]: to find the houses
[03:31:50] Beirdo: don't need no stinking GPS
[03:31:50] [R]: but htey arne't using gps
[03:31:51] [R]: thats the problem
[03:31:52] wagnerrp: oh, you mean the human installer?
[03:31:54] [R]: yeah
[03:31:56] wagnerrp: cant find your house?
[03:32:01] [R]: its the tv
[03:32:03] [R]: lol
[03:32:09] [R]: undercover boss
[03:32:30] wagnerrp: ok... was wondering what a satellite repair tech was doing coming to your house this late
[03:32:39] [R]: i'm just that awesome :P
[03:33:24] Beirdo: hehe
[03:33:24] knightr: just wait until he works in the call center, that was hilarious...
[03:33:32] Beirdo: I'm recording that one
[03:33:39] Beirdo: I usually skip that show
[03:33:43] Beirdo: but as a customer...
[03:33:46] [R]: knightr: the clip fro mthe commerical?
[03:33:50] [R]: knightr: where he called a woman a man?
[03:34:22] wagnerrp: AAAGHHH
[03:34:28] knightr: yep... I saw part of that show earlier today when I was debugging something on my be...
[03:35:04] wagnerrp: the backend doesnt send BACKEND_COMMANDs, it sends BACKEND_MESSAGEs
[03:35:51] [R]: you'd think by now peopel would be on to the undercover boss gag
[03:36:12] Beirdo: heh
[03:36:31] knightr: (maybe an hour ago, not sure)
[03:36:34] Beirdo: yeah, but most employees of huge companies have NO idea what the CEO/owner looks like
[03:36:51] knightr: exactly!
[03:36:52] wagnerrp: someone mind looking at this and telling me what im doing wrong? http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1959055
[03:37:50] [R]: Beirdo: but the cover story is always so stupid
[03:38:00] [R]: i know what the president guy looks like for my company
[03:38:45] Beirdo: wagnerrp: don't know the proto well enough to help ya there
[03:38:54] wagnerrp: Beirdo: no... regular expression
[03:39:00] Beirdo: oooh
[03:39:02] Beirdo: one sec
[03:39:02] wagnerrp: theyre not matching
[03:39:06] wagnerrp: i cant figure out why
[03:40:07] Beirdo: try [0–9\-]
[03:40:17] Beirdo: on the starttime one
[03:40:27] Beirdo: it might be getting confused there
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[03:40:36] [R]: ffs
[03:40:41] [R]: is it my tuner or my provider sucking
[03:40:42] knightr: [R], how many people work in your company? I know what the president of the company I work for (around 300 people) looks like but I didn't know what he looked like on my previous job (over 1200 people I believe)
[03:40:44] ** [R] smacks his QAM **
[03:41:05] [R]: knightr: in my campus is like 4000, but theres a bunch of other offices across the country
[03:41:40] [R]: his pic is all over the website and our internal news
[03:41:43] [R]: and i saw him speak once
[03:41:56] Beirdo: wagnerrp: and maybe \: as well
[03:42:06] Beirdo: I think the chanid should work just fine
[03:42:32] wagnerrp: no combination of slashes or double slashes is doing anything
[03:42:42] knightr: [R] :) I see your point.. I know what he looks like because I see him at least once or twice per month (if I'm unlucky)
[03:42:48] Beirdo: also... the []:[] is part of the regexp?
[03:42:55] [R]: unlucky... haha
[03:43:01] wagnerrp: crap
[03:43:03] wagnerrp: the brackets
[03:43:04] Beirdo: they will need to be \[\]:\[\]
[03:43:05] wagnerrp: forgot about them
[03:43:07] wagnerrp: ...
[03:43:17] Beirdo: yeah, crap
[03:43:24] wagnerrp: thanks
[03:43:30] [R]: knightr: then again... my boss' boss' boss stopped by my cube to say hi once... and everyone freaked out because hes never done that for anyone else
[03:44:06] Beirdo: "I'm gonna go ahead and ask you to get out of our building.. NOW!"
[03:44:54] knightr: Beirdo, sorry...
[03:45:23] Beirdo: heh, no that's what [R]'s boss, etc would be saying
[03:45:35] Beirdo: or at least that would be the fear
[03:45:42] [R]: lol
[03:45:50] wagnerrp: ah... im running 're.escape' on that bracket thing where im using it elsewhere
[03:46:11] knightr: Beirdo, I thought you were saying that to me and [R]...
[03:46:15] wagnerrp: yeah, that did it
[03:46:18] ** knightr breathes deeply **
[03:46:27] Beirdo: hehe
[03:46:29] Beirdo: no no no
[03:46:35] Beirdo: wagnerrp: cool.
[03:47:05] knightr: [R], now everybody thinks you are related... :)
[03:47:19] [R]: lol
[03:47:36] Beirdo: or that you're dating his daughter or something
[03:47:40] [R]: no
[03:48:53] knightr: I know of at least two people where I work which are related to bosses (and most people don't know it) One to our prez, the other to a boss of a company we do a lot of business with...
[03:49:57] knightr: you must not complain about them if you want to keep working there I'm told...
[03:50:05] [R]: lol
[03:50:28] [R]: i could never do customer service in a call center
[03:51:16] Beirdo: not Indian enough?
[03:51:23] [R]: ROFL
[03:51:29] [R]: well i'm watching this directv thing
[03:51:44] [R]: i'm not getting any signal. i was watching the golf and it stoped
[03:51:45] [R]: RoFl
[03:53:00] knightr: the company I work for has a few (I think 3 if not 4) call centers... some of our clients (let's say big companies) even have people call them to see if they could make them give incorrect information about the product they purchased...
[03:53:59] [R]: oh snap
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[03:56:37] knightr: I mostly worked on the application used by one of those call centers so I am not sure how many call centers there are (they are not big call centers, it's just that they don't do the same job so that they are not considered to be in the same call center)
[03:59:03] ** knightr thinks that today was a very nice day for HGTTG fan, don't you think? **
[03:59:28] ** knightr fans... **
[04:00:59] [R]: 101010 = 42 thing?
[04:01:40] wagnerrp: yes, in binary
[04:02:11] Beirdo: well, binary -> decimal
[04:02:12] knightr: yep...
[04:02:19] Beirdo: gotta be specific :)
[04:02:37] Beirdo: it's 2A in hex :)
[04:02:57] knightr: The answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything...
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[04:04:19] [R]: when the ceo reveals hes been undercover
[04:04:21] [R]: it seems so staged
[04:04:29] [R]: everyone starts clapping and stuff
[04:04:38] [R]: i'd be like "WTF YOU TALKIN BOUT?"
[04:05:16] knightr: [R], I must confess that I sometime wonder if it is all staged...
[04:05:55] Beirdo: hmmm, why are there all these cameras in my workplace?
[04:05:59] Beirdo: heh
[04:06:04] [R]: HAHA
[04:06:28] [R]: the "cover story" has something to do with tv
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[04:09:16] [R]: so i tell you what... that lego star wars wii is so freakin hard
[04:10:16] Beirdo: football, schmootbal
[04:10:28] Beirdo: ok, knightr happy turkey weekend
[04:10:39] [R]: omg i love dog the bounty hunter
[04:10:46] [R]: "what you are doing is illegal. you need to wear an undershirt"
[04:11:24] [R]: who wears a leather jacket w/o a shirt?
[04:12:51] Criggie: mmm sweaty
[04:13:50] [R]: lol
[04:13:57] [R]: well its in colorado and i think its the winter
[04:14:17] Beirdo: think?
[04:14:31] Beirdo: what, the 30ft of snow doesn't make it obvious?
[04:14:34] [R]: ROFL
[04:14:39] knightr: Beirdo, thanks!
[04:21:21] knightr: Goodnight guys!
[04:21:25] ** knightr is away: Beam me up Scotty! **
[04:22:16] Beirdo: this planet sucks.
[04:28:14] [R]: wagnerrp: still there?
[04:28:22] wagnerrp: yes
[04:29:12] [R]: wagnerrp: can you make an option to recorded.open and videos.open to force the filetransfer or do i need to make a ticket with a patch?
[04:29:59] wagnerrp: i could
[04:31:25] [R]: i love making diff files manually... keeps you sharp
[04:32:29] wagnerrp: out of curiosity, if you have the files locally, why do you want to force a filetransfer?
[04:32:58] [R]: wagnerrp: so the backend thinks its in use
[04:33:02] [R]: cuz i idle shutdown
[04:33:19] wagnerrp: well there are better ways to handle that
[04:33:23] [R]: like?
[04:34:43] wagnerrp: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/branches/r . . . ase.py#L1351
[04:34:59] wagnerrp: when you log into the backend, just call type='Playback'
[04:35:08] wagnerrp: 'Monitor' allows shutdown, 'Playback' does not
[04:35:36] wagnerrp: that is the real reason why a filetransfer keeps the backend online
[04:35:54] wagnerrp: not because there is an open filetransfer, but because i have the control socket set as 'Playback'
[04:41:12] [R]: what do you mean log into?
[04:41:25] wagnerrp: the MythBE() call
[04:41:40] wagnerrp: or do i do everything through the database on the old version?
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[04:41:58] [R]: database
[04:42:04] upgrdman: i just reformatted this pc and resetup mythtv. scanned and found lots of channels but attempting to watch tv does not work. it just drops you back to the menu. recordings are saved to /data/mythtv, and both /data and /data/mythtv have 755 perms. any ideas?
[04:42:21] wagnerrp: upgrdman: backend logs
[04:42:42] upgrdman: where are they?
[04:43:02] wagnerrp: most distros put them in /var/log or /var/log/mythtv
[04:43:03] [R]: wagnerrp: as long as that object's connection is closed when the file isn't playing it'd be good... but if it stayed open for the duration of the mount, i woudln't liek that
[04:43:11] wagnerrp: it all depends on what the init script tells mythbackend to do
[04:44:19] wagnerrp: in the new one, im adding callbacks into the handler, to let it do things when a file is opened
[04:44:28] wagnerrp: such as locking the backend from shutting down
[04:44:34] [R]: ah, that would be sweet
[04:44:38] wagnerrp: and adding an entry in the inuseprograms table
[04:44:59] Beirdo: Oh why oh WHY did they make Jackass 3D?
[04:45:19] wagnerrp: people people watch good money for man getting hit in nuts
[04:45:26] wagnerrp: s/people/because/
[04:45:35] Beirdo: but... just rent the first one
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[04:45:53] Beirdo: we don't need yet another moronic one, and 3D?!
[04:46:02] wagnerrp: erm... because people pay good money for man getting hit in nuts
[04:46:08] wagnerrp: i really screwed up that sentance
[04:46:10] Beirdo: MTV just can't waste money fast enough
[04:46:21] sphery: Beirdo: yeah, and now all 6 Star Wars are being re-released in 3D
[04:46:29] wagnerrp: you dont dare suggest they actually play music do you?
[04:46:31] Beirdo: that makes a bit more sense
[04:46:47] Beirdo: only a bit though
[04:46:49] sphery: true
[04:46:50] [R]: wagnerrp: although the shutdown lock is polled by mythshutdown, not the backend... so when its locked the backend log fills up with "shutting down in X seconds", it calls mythshutdown, it doesnt shutdown, the backend goes idle again, repeat
[04:46:56] wagnerrp: sphery: in 3D, greedo shoots at the audience first
[04:47:02] sphery: but why ruin what started as a good thing
[04:47:05] [R]: wagnerrp: whereas with a filetransfer the backend doesnt query mythshutdown to begin with
[04:47:22] Beirdo: sphery: because Lucas is a greedy d-bag?
[04:47:25] wagnerrp: sphery: do you know if an entry in inuseprograms will halt a shutdown?
[04:47:34] sphery: feel free to put the end marker for "started as" where you feel is appropriate
[04:47:40] sphery: wagnerrp: no idea
[04:47:44] [R]: wagnerrp: from what i've seen no
[04:47:49] Beirdo: I'd rather see Indiana Jones in 3D, actually
[04:47:53] [R]: wagnerrp: its just currently recording and the plaback/filetransfer sockets
[04:47:55] sphery: CM probably knows that code best
[04:48:05] [R]: wagnerrp: and jobqueues
[04:48:05] wagnerrp: [R]: no, mythshutdown has no way of knowing whether connections are Monitor or Playback
[04:48:12] [R]: wagnerrp: thats handled by the backend itself
[04:48:15] wagnerrp: that has to do with the backend calling it in the first place
[04:48:24] [R]: wagnerrp: if the backend has no sockets, then it calls mythshutdown
[04:48:43] wagnerrp: if the backend has only Monitor sockets, then it calls mythshutdown
[04:49:14] [R]: and if its got the shutdown lock, the backend constanly calls mythshutdown
[04:49:35] wagnerrp: right, so you add a playback socket, so it doesnt even try
[04:49:44] wagnerrp: thats independent of a filetransfer
[04:50:07] [R]: ok, if it opens and closes it with the oepn/close of the local file
[04:50:10] [R]: it would work
[04:50:45] wagnerrp: there is going to be a constant connection to the backend, for purposes of receiving update events
[04:50:59] wagnerrp: and it will dynamically flip that between a Monitor and a Playback as needed
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[04:51:07] [R]: ok that sounds good
[04:51:17] [R]: as long as the filesystem being mounted doesnt prevent it from shutting down
[04:51:27] wagnerrp: no, it wont
[04:51:44] [R]: i have autofs working great... but sometimes samba acts up and the filesystem won't unmount
[04:52:04] [R]: ALTHOUGH... i bet i could export it as nfs and it'd be better
[04:52:09] ** [R] makes a note to try it **
[04:55:19] [R]: the mythtv-backend debian package recommends ntp
[04:55:21] [R]: interesting...
[04:55:42] wagnerrp: yes, if youre running mythtv, you should run ntp
[04:55:58] wagnerrp: dont want those clocks getting several minutes off, and shifting your recordings
[04:56:02] Beirdo: if you run Linux, you should run ntp
[04:56:25] [R]: this is weird... this patch is failing but it looks fine
[04:56:25] Beirdo: and if you use NFS, you should for sure
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[04:57:05] [R]: oh haha
[04:57:08] [R]: i was in the wreong directory
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[05:08:46] [R]: wagnerrp: oh, now i remember why i am using samba... i had a hard time exporting the fuse filesystem with nfs... have you ever done that?
[05:09:18] wagnerrp: nope, only used it with samba
[05:09:40] wagnerrp: of course if you could use nfs, you would be mounting it on a system that could run mythfs directly
[05:09:44] sphery: if you run a computer that's on a network, you should run ntp
[05:10:01] clever: [R]: i think nfs user server might do it, but the kernel nfs server is more picky
[05:10:35] [R]: wagnerrp: i have no python on my embedded device
[05:10:41] [R]: wagnerrp: but thats a good idea to try
[05:11:21] [R]: wagnerrp: but then i would need mysql python bindings too?
[05:11:28] wagnerrp: yes
[05:11:54] [R]: i'll put that on my list of things to try
[05:13:25] [R]: clever: how do i do the nfs user server?
[05:13:34] [R]: clever: i only see a kernel server package
[05:14:20] wagnerrp: oof...backend event spam
[05:14:37] wagnerrp: trying to monitor the events so i can figure out why its not reacting to new recordings
[05:14:42] clever: [R]: both nfs servers use /etc/exports the same basic way, its mostly just a matter of switching packages
[05:14:48] wagnerrp: and it dumps a pixmap
[05:15:05] [R]: clever: yes... but what package...
[05:15:09] clever: [R]: though i havent used the userspace nfs server in a while, it didnt like nfsroot booting
[05:15:29] [R]: http://unfs3.sourceforge.net/
[05:15:30] [R]: is it that?
[05:15:51] [R]: woah... that is trippy... chrome doenst show the http:// and the /... but when i copy/pasted it... it included it
[05:16:00] clever: [R]: looks right
[05:16:17] clever: firefox does similar trippy things, the URL can have spaces but when i paste it comes out as %20's
[05:16:40] sphery: it's all the "protect the user from the scary addresses" thing
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[05:17:00] [R]: no file locking... shoudn't be a problem, i only export to one client at a time
[05:17:00] clever: [R]: under my ubuntu, its the nfs-user-server package
[05:17:16] [R]: tahts what threw me off... i dont see one in 10.10... but i do see unfs3 package
[05:17:27] clever: ah, maybe they renamed it
[05:19:10] [R]: clever: well samba works and i dont want to mess with my currently working nfs setup
[05:19:27] clever: yeah, it can be a bit tricky to switch nfs servers
[05:19:34] clever: they handle some exports flags a little differently
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[05:20:12] clever: once i found that nfs-user-server was the problem with my nfsroot booting, i went kernel mode on everything and havent gone back
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[05:23:00] Beirdo: heh. big pile of collapsed boxes
[05:23:43] clever: ok, i'm going off to bed now, later
[05:24:05] [R]: my myth deletes still take forever
[05:24:09] [R]: i need to figure that out one of these days
[05:28:12] sphery: [R]: do you have slow deleted enabled?
[05:28:33] [R]: no
[05:28:37] sphery: or do you mean your system "locks up" for a few seconds when you delete a huge file
[05:28:48] [R]: in mythfrontend, i say delete a file
[05:28:51] [R]: it disapears
[05:28:53] [R]: then it reappears
[05:28:58] [R]: and disapears again after a few seconds
[05:29:27] clever: ive noticed that too, when you delete a file, it flags it for deletion and hides it in the UI
[05:29:34] sphery: I'll bet if you enabled slow deletes, it wouldn't do that
[05:29:40] clever: then something makes it refresh and it forgets to hide it again
[05:29:48] [R]: sphery: but i use xfs... i thougth the point of xfs was so you didnt have to use slow deletes
[05:29:52] clever: then the backend actualy goes thru and deletes it from the DB and FS
[05:30:02] sphery: but it would work
[05:30:04] [R]: lol
[05:30:05] clever: thats what it feels like to me
[05:30:13] [R]: sphery: ok, i'll try it
[05:30:21] [R]: 10 minutes till this show is ovetr
[05:30:29] sphery: I think clever is right about the root cause
[05:30:38] sphery: it's likely the preview gens, etc, causing the refresh
[05:30:44] sphery: or other deletes or whatever
[05:30:53] [R]: sometimes it works properly
[05:31:00] clever: i didnt bother mentioning it because i still run 24115M
[05:31:06] sphery: but as a slow deletes user, I haven't cared to look into it :)
[05:31:23] clever: its also noticable with undelete enabled
[05:31:35] sphery: with deleted recgroup enabled?
[05:31:41] clever: if i delete the last episode in a title (while in the deleted storage group)
[05:31:53] clever: the title 'folder' in the list on the side/top wont go away right away
[05:32:01] clever: until it actualy deletes it from the DB completely
[05:32:05] wagnerrp: ive been finding that there is one last RECORDING_LIST_CHANGE UPDATE issued after the DELETE
[05:32:39] clever: the list of titles for the side/top isnt taking into account the files flagged for deletion
[05:33:05] clever: the deletepending column on recorded i think
[05:40:13] wagnerrp: apparently it is a bad idea to dump large volumes of text into a terminal
[05:40:50] clever: all depends on what the terminal baud rate is
[05:41:18] clever: xterm doesnt have an exact baud rate, but is still limited by how fast the video drivers can redraw things
[05:41:19] sphery: not to mention the drawing capabilities of the underlying video hardware
[05:41:39] clever: i was using the vesa driver today and it was extremely noticable
[05:41:53] wagnerrp: no, its some limitation of the text buffer
[05:42:05] wagnerrp: it pastes in like 15 lines/second when you start
[05:42:11] wagnerrp: but eventually slows to 1–2 lines/second
[05:42:20] clever: ah, that problem
[05:42:21] sphery: VESA, the official video standard of the 2012 Olympics
[05:42:51] clever: wagnerrp: each character you append to the buffer seems to make the readline lib cycle over every existing character or something
[05:43:05] wagnerrp: well it levels out at some point
[05:43:08] clever: ive had the same problem when trying to edit a command thats 10 lines long
[05:43:18] wagnerrp: so there seems to be a large edit optimization in there somewhere
[05:44:12] sphery: oh, or better, "VESA. It's Everywhere You Want to Be."
[05:44:19] sphery: or "to See?"
[05:44:28] clever: vesa, it'll do till i fix nvidia :P
[05:44:34] sphery: heh
[05:44:45] clever: i upgraded the kernel and forgot to recompile nvidia.ko
[05:45:23] clever: now i need to get some sleep before i wind up staying up till 7am again
[05:47:36] Beirdo: wuss :)
[05:47:50] clever: i'm just bearly starting to sleep at night again:P
[05:49:05] Beirdo: This show... is... dumb
[05:49:08] wagnerrp: does --setverbose not actually work?
[05:49:12] Beirdo: Todd Margaret
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[06:03:06] [R]: oh SNAP
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[06:03:14] [R]: mythweb sets up a search thing
[06:03:16] [R]: for the browser
[06:08:07] sphery: search thing?
[06:08:14] wagnerrp: you use firefox?
[06:08:17] [R]: chromium
[06:08:27] [R]: in firefox you have to manually add the searhc provider
[06:08:29] wagnerrp: sphery: either?
[06:08:35] [R]: in chrome/chromium, it automatically picks it up
[06:08:42] wagnerrp: anyway, in firefox, the thing in the top right
[06:08:49] wagnerrp: hit the dropdown, and theres an option to add mythweb
[06:10:25] wagnerrp: woo! remote files are working again
[06:11:57] sphery: grrr... cinellara stepped on my ffmpeg libavutil.pc by failing to rename their .pc file (though they did rename the lib itself)
[06:14:01] sphery: cinelerra
[06:14:02] Beirdo: cinderella?
[06:14:22] sphery: heh, yeah, I can't wait 'til they finish renaming it
[06:15:41] sphery: cinelerra to cinelerraCV (community version) and, eventually, will become Lumiera
[06:15:50] sphery: unfortunately, I won't be able to spell Lumiera either
[06:16:45] Beirdo: better watch out, it might turn into a pumpkin
[06:17:24] sphery: heh
[06:17:55] sphery: when factoring in learning curve and UI fanciness, lots of people think it already did
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[06:18:57] Beirdo: ooooh, look
[06:19:00] Beirdo: Weeds
[06:19:08] Beirdo: I should watch this :)
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[06:20:54] Beirdo: I like this show
[06:24:31] [R]: 2010-10–10 23:19:22.808 RecBase(1:/dev/video0): GetKeyframePositions(33790,9223372036854775807,#4) out of 269
[06:24:35] [R]: what does that mean?
[06:24:39] [R]: i get it on my hdpvr and my qam
[06:24:42] [R]: seemingly randomly
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[06:44:32] [R]: does nascar really hold press conferences with the drivers before the race?
[06:45:14] Beirdo: I dunno... I only ever watch nascar for the crashes
[06:46:14] [R]: so my video transitions aren't smooth after commerical skip
[06:46:21] [R]: is that vdpau sucking?
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[06:56:06] sphery: or you're seeking, then starting decoding on a non-keyframe
[06:56:13] sphery: possibly due to bad seek table
[06:56:32] [R]: its my hdpvr sucking?
[06:57:24] sphery: the hd-pvr key frames are about 2s apart, so it's quite possible that it's seeking to a non-keyframe in between those 2s
[06:57:58] [R]: could the commflag code be modified to seek back to the keyframe?
[06:58:33] sphery: the seeking code in the player handles going to keyframes close to the requested frame
[06:59:07] sphery: but, TTBOMK, for HD-PVR, we record as a keyframe something that's not a keyframe, but is kind of similar
[06:59:21] sphery: I'd say ask some of the other HD-PVR users if they see similar
[06:59:33] sphery: it may just be the way things work with the video produced by it
[06:59:41] sphery: or they may have solutions/suggestions for you
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[08:20:17] justinh: wagnerrp: I've been using --setverbose lately. seems to work fine on -fixes
[08:21:33] justinh: and very handy it is too :-)
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[09:28:10] Saviq: hi, can themes for myth be put anywhere else than /usr/share/? like in ~/.mythtv somewhere?
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[09:31:27] justinh: yes
[09:31:35] justinh: exactly there
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[09:38:01] Saviq: justinh: ~/.mythtv/themes simply?
[09:38:29] justinh: ~/.mythtv/themedir more like, I think
[09:38:56] Saviq: what about mythvideo scripts?
[09:39:30] justinh: what about them?
[09:39:43] Saviq: can I put a custom one somewhere else than /usr?
[09:39:58] justinh: I don't know
[09:40:13] justinh: I think I remember seeing paths in the settings pages for mythvideo
[09:40:39] Saviq: that's ~/.mythtv/themes
[09:41:07] Saviq: and mythvideo no longer takes paths since 0.22 I think, just a selector box that lists stuff in /usr
[09:41:23] justinh: no, pretty sure I've seen it in 0.23
[09:41:36] Saviq: ah ok will look again
[09:41:54] justinh: or maybe not
[09:42:01] justinh: meh. looks like /usr it is then
[09:42:10] justinh: no big deal,I'd have thought
[09:42:53] Saviq: yeah it's not, I just wanted to keep /usr clean but no biggie
[09:43:17] Saviq: oh and menu themes don't work from ~/.mythtv :/
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[09:44:09] justinh: want to keep /usr 'clean' ? WTF?
[09:45:52] Saviq: package stuff only
[09:46:02] Saviq: at least that was the idea
[09:46:24] Saviq: nevermind, not a big issue
[09:47:30] justinh: hmm maybe only menu themes can go in ~/.mythtv
[09:48:06] justinh: ah no
[09:48:15] justinh: ~/.mythtv/themes/THETHEME
[09:48:39] justinh: so ~/.mythtv/themes is an analog of /usr/share/mythtv/themes in effect
[09:48:55] Saviq: it didn't find my menutheme there
[09:49:08] Saviq: didn't list it in the theme selector
[09:51:43] justinh: it won't
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[09:52:07] justinh: I think you need to use an override like -O Theme="themename" for it to work like that
[09:52:41] justinh: Ive just copied my WIP theme to ~/.mythtv/themes/ & it's not appearing in the selector either but using an override works
[09:58:26] justinh: when I build mythtv I don't give a fig where the shared files end up
[09:58:37] justinh: I don't care about /usr/local being a clutter
[09:58:47] justinh: make uninstall can always clean things up anyway
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[09:59:44] justinh: if anything I find unutbu packages leave more than enough crud around on their own
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[10:46:35] justinh: oh FFS... freeview channel lineup has changed since I last scanned
[10:47:22] justinh: there are now 98 'channels' sharing 6 multiplexes – or to put it another way 94 'channels' sharing 5 multiplexes
[10:48:48] growler: you presumably last scanned a very long time ago
[10:48:58] justinh: not that long ago
[10:49:07] justinh: was before August 10th though
[10:49:24] growler: as I think that must have been the reshuffle to free up a mux for DVB-T2
[10:49:38] justinh: yeah, frickin rescan, risk messing up every single 'this channel' rule in my schedules :-\
[10:50:12] gbee: justinh: could be that the selector isn't checking all the paths that it should
[10:50:24] justinh: and then have people say "nooo, don't use 'this channel' rules" then reiterate why I HAVE to because dupe matching in mythtv can't keep up with how the EPG descriptions change :-\
[10:50:53] justinh: growler: nah, the mux shuffle happened when we moved to digital only here
[10:51:01] growler: ah right
[10:51:08] justinh: gbee: prolly a 5 minute fix I'd bet though
[10:51:08] growler: and yeah, I share the same problem with this channel rules
[10:51:40] justinh: gbee: might not even be in trunk since the theme selector stuff was played around with I dunno
[10:51:41] growler: I do not need every episode of CSI and Top Gear that Dave decide to repeat constantly.
[10:51:50] gbee: Saviq: if using trunk, menu themes are not shown in the new theme selector, they have to be selected in the Appearance settings
[10:51:50] growler: (plus the ones on Dave+1 for good measure)
[10:52:40] justinh: growler: they don't even need a +1 channel IMHO. When I was on paternity leave a couple of months ago I put Dave on for background noise.. they were on like a 6 hour loop or something
[10:52:47] gbee: Saviq: ok, it's broken, I'll look at a fix for 0.24
[10:53:37] justinh: I wouldn't care but a fair proportion of'channels' on the EPG aren't even blimmin telly
[10:54:03] gbee: justinh: rescan should not break 'this channel' rules, that's a bug
[10:54:40] gbee: growler: which duplicate detection method are you using for Top Gear etc?
[10:54:42] justinh: I've never seen it break 'this channel' rules personally but going by chanid which is how those are stored IIRC is how they'd break... and that there's a risk of it
[10:55:27] justinh: doing a rescan proper prolly won't break anything assuming chanid stays the same for channels which haven't moved
[10:55:51] justinh: or even ones which have moved... but the old way I think was the big bone... deleting everything & rescanning from scratch.
[10:55:57] growler: not sure off the top of my head, sorry
[10:56:08] gbee: chanid shouldn't change on a rescan unless we cannot reasonably determine that a moved channel is not the same as the old one
[10:56:34] justinh: it might if the user deleted all the channels before rescanning though
[10:56:44] justinh: that's only ever my last resort here
[10:56:46] gbee: channum might be better since then it would work with cross-source stuff, scan would just need to update the rules
[10:56:50] growler: my main headache seems to be caused by having both DVB-T and DVB-S, dup detection worked acceptably when I just had DVB-T tuners
[10:57:13] gbee: justinh: that's why we don't recommend users delete all channels :/
[10:57:15] growler: almost certainly caused by both having slightly different data in their EPGs :-(
[10:57:24] justinh: gbee: IIRC the scheduler etc looks up the channum etc from the chanid in the record table
[10:57:38] gbee: growler: it's why I don't use EIT ... or one of the reasons anyway
[10:57:52] justinh: growler: which is why I use the new uk_rt feature.. you can guarantee +1 channels have the same EPG data
[10:58:16] justinh: it basically just takes channel EPG data & +1's it ;-)
[10:58:25] growler: heh, that might help
[10:58:32] justinh: it does. A lot
[10:58:49] growler: gbee: well the sat one seems to be updated to cope with schedule changes a lot of the time
[10:58:53] justinh: up to the point where radiotimes give out the same description every time for the same episode
[10:59:06] gbee: I have both DVB-T and DVB-S, rarely have problems since they are both using the same guide source (Radiotimes xmltv)
[10:59:27] justinh: I'm just moaning about the freeview lineup changing *again* anyway
[10:59:32] gbee: growler: true, you lose that but how often does that really ahppen?
[10:59:35] justinh: I'm frickin sick of it changing
[10:59:49] growler: gbee: happens due to sport reasonably regularly
[11:00:00] justinh: on Dave?!
[11:00:05] growler: no
[11:00:20] growler: but on other channels, which then justify having eit turned on still
[11:00:22] justinh: BBC schedules are all to hell anyway
[11:00:40] gbee: growler: ah, well I don't watch or record sport
[11:00:48] justinh: maybe there's a way for myth to use xmltv & still wait for show start/end flags in the broadcast
[11:01:08] justinh: gbee: his point is, sport buggers up the schedule times ;)
[11:01:23] growler: flatmate is rather keen on the F1 and American Football, both of which have a nasty habit of running over their scheduled slot by considerable margins
[11:01:31] justinh: we've all had recordings messed up by Wombledon overrunning by 8 hours :D
[11:01:33] gbee: in fact I'd sign a petition backing the BBC moving all their sports coverage to a dedicated channel instead of letting it screw up the schedules for everything else
[11:01:54] growler: heh
[11:02:02] justinh: gbee: IIRC they've said it's something they'll consider when everywhere has switched over
[11:02:06] gbee: scrap BBC3, replace it with BBC Sport
[11:02:08] growler: or the snooker mucking up Sunday afternoon schedules
[11:02:23] growler: BBC3 occasionally gets decent content
[11:02:32] justinh: put that on BBC2 instead
[11:02:38] justinh: like the good stuff BBC4 shows
[11:02:40] gbee: growler: not enough and it could go on BBC2 instead
[11:02:43] growler: and a lot of very, very strange things that probably no one sane would ever fund (some of which work, some of which are dire)
[11:03:02] growler: the sort of thing C4 used to fund, and then stick on at 2am
[11:03:03] justinh: Him & Her... that should be on /dev/null, for example
[11:03:10] growler: heh
[11:03:24] justinh: or just put it online :D
[11:03:47] justinh: still reaches their target demographic that way too
[11:04:40] justinh: R.I.P. BBC Choice
[11:05:13] justinh: actually, of all the BBC channels I think it's Four I record the most
[11:05:26] justinh: my wife only goes for Eastenders (arghh) from BBC1 IIRC
[11:05:49] justinh: oh yeah the occasional comedy thing
[11:05:59] justinh: Michael Floppyhair's Comedy Roadshow
[11:06:30] gbee: Saviq, justinh: actually it works in trunk, so long as the theme has the required themeinfo.xml
[11:07:09] justinh: let's see what my backend is doing...
[11:07:25] justinh: got a window to rescan
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[11:11:58] justinh: reeto. scan of existing transports here we go
[11:12:43] justinh: found 24 off-air channels
[11:13:26] justinh: can't remember what that means. is that 24 channels which were originally in the db but can now not be found, or is that 24 channels not broadcasting actively right now?
[11:15:08] gbee: the former, but possibly also the latter
[11:15:14] justinh: heh
[11:15:16] justinh: wth..delete
[11:15:22] justinh: I got a backup
[11:16:07] gbee: it means channels in the db which can't now be found, but that might be because they aren't appearing in the tables when off-air (happens in some countries, but not the UK)
[11:16:33] justinh: well it didn't delete sky news or sky sports news
[11:16:59] justinh: and I now have a channel called "8576"
[11:17:14] justinh: oops.. "9576" but it has a channum of 8576
[11:17:47] justinh: and it didn't insert Sky three+1
[11:18:15] justinh: Freeview.. YOU SUCK
[11:18:35] justinh: oh wait.. Sky3+1
[11:19:02] justinh: and Community channel is still listed? thought it went off the air
[11:19:23] justinh: hmm. I wonder if 9576 is actually ITV2 +1
[11:21:01] justinh: and WHY are TUTV channels still being marked as 'free'?
[11:21:19] justinh: they should all be forced to get their own mux anyway IMHO
[11:21:25] justinh: if pay TV pays, let em PAY
[11:22:30] justinh: time to see what this '9576' channel is. livetv ahoy!
[11:23:12] justinh: BBC THREE?!
[11:23:46] justinh: oh wait that was OSD hangover
[11:28:54] justinh: wth is this 'home' channel?
[11:29:09] justinh: more TUTV JUNK
[11:29:40] justinh: they need shooting for marking channels FTA when they ain't
[11:31:09] Peitolm: justinh: tried cross-referencing lyngsat
[11:31:20] Peitolm: or are you using DVB-T?
[11:31:23] justinh: dvb-t
[11:31:32] justinh: see no need using dvb-s yet
[11:31:47] justinh: I don't need yet more junk channels I'm not interested in
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[11:32:13] justinh: hmm. ffmpeg -i on a recording of this mysterious '8576' channel doesn't seem to show any kind of a/v stream
[11:32:35] justinh: sod it. DELETE
[11:33:05] Peitolm: I've noticed that sometimes RT has more info in the +1 channel than the normal (this may be historic, and now irrelevant)
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[11:34:05] justinh: the point being, the info in the description for the same show (albeit one hour later) is different & would thus get recorded as a different episode if using 'subtitle then description' or just 'description' dupe matching
[11:35:01] justinh: I think it's a bit rough that every showing seems to get a unique ID rather than every episode just having a unique ID
[11:35:24] justinh: but I suppose there are cases to support either methodology
[11:35:41] Peitolm: In that situation i tend to only use subtitle, and just set it to the +1 channel
[11:36:00] justinh: subtitle.. not much uses them
[11:36:11] Peitolm: it would be nice if there was an easy way to say 'consider these channels to be the same'
[11:36:23] justinh: there is
[11:36:35] justinh: but no way to say "consider these channels to be the same but timeshifted"
[11:36:38] Peitolm: justinh: are you sure? a lot of what i record has good title and subtitle
[11:37:15] Peitolm: justinh: i think with an advanced schedule you can, but it doesn't fit the 'easy' requirement
[11:37:50] justinh: yeh well.. I still have my sights set on mixing around with some of the custom/advanced rules stuff
[11:38:04] justinh: I hate having to just about enter SQL with my remote
[11:40:00] justinh: oof. bad
[11:40:15] justinh: I was last tuned to 8576.. which I've since deleted... so now livetv no worky
[11:42:28] Peitolm: yeah, that's not handled very well
[11:42:30] justinh: heheheh. fixed
[11:42:41] justinh: by a method I'd never condone here
[11:43:13] justinh: give it some dues though.. you don't *expect* the last tuned channel to end up deleted
[11:43:31] justinh: like when mythtv was first made I bet lineups changed only when people updated packages or moved
[11:43:59] justinh: so it wasn't very well geared up for channels moving, renaming etc
[11:44:27] justinh: plus I don't use livetv except for tuner testing
[11:46:09] growler: justinh: re dvb-s, the only reason I have a tuner is for HD
[11:48:24] growler: but there are some upsetting ui issues with having both (due to both having many identical chans)
[11:48:35] growler: (ui issues with livetv that is)
[11:52:14] justinh: FWIW if I had DVB-S just for HD that'd be IT
[11:52:17] justinh: HD only channels
[11:53:19] Peitolm: my DVB-S is rapidly turning into my primary tuner
[11:54:24] growler: I was having horrible problems with quality of my DVB-S stream dropping with uptime, but recent driver updates seem to have fixed that
[11:55:43] growler: rather happy with the setup now
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[12:23:20] gbee: wonder if anyone is going to step up and finish the rest of the translations, there must still be Icelandic, Slovenian, Italian, Polish, Bulgarian, Hebrew, Turkish, Japanese and Catalan speaking users out there
[12:25:47] kenni: gbee: probably not for 0.24, but perhaps over time :)
[12:26:06] gbee: and what about Asia? Where are the Chinese, Taiwanese, Indian, Pakistani, Malaysian translations? Or Arabic?
[12:26:41] sid3windr: they'll probably run RedTV in china ;)
[12:28:08] gbee: Korean! South Korea is probably the most technologically advanced country in the world, surely someone out there has messed with MythTV
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[12:32:07] kenni: gbee: I don't know if you saw the short discussion I had with knightr yesterday about using a online platform for translations, instead of using the QT tools directly. Launchpad seems to have an interesting translation community with over 20000 translators. I haven't really looked into it yet, but it could be interesting to join such a big translation community.
[12:32:43] kenni: https://translations.launchpad.net/
[12:35:06] gbee: kenni: that's been suggested before, but the Ubuntu packagers, but they were the first to recognise two issues with using the Ubuntu platform – it doesn't support QT format translations at the moment and you lose the context, many MythTV strings can only be translated correctly if you can see how and where they are used
[12:35:21] gbee: but if you can get past those issues, then it's not a bad idea
[12:35:46] MadMouse[w2]: easier to fix translation afterwards by community than redoing everything
[12:35:49] MadMouse[w2]: ??
[12:36:15] MadMouse[w2]: rather log translation tickets ..
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[12:38:03] gbee: well then you still need someone prepared to audit the translations, so you still need members of the MythTV community willing to give over time which is where we started this discussion
[12:38:25] gbee: but as I said, if you can get around those issues ...
[12:38:28] MadMouse[w2]: correct
[12:38:33] kenni: gbee: the QT tools include a command called lconvert which can convert between GNU Gettext (used by Launchpad) and Qt. And today GNU Gettext supports code references, so if you are able to have Launchpad sync with SVN, there's a posibility it could work..
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[12:39:40] kenni: you import the project into Launchpad from SVN, but I don't know if this will be a "fork" of if you can ask it to pull changes
[12:39:55] kenni: "of it, or if you"
[12:42:46] kenni: wow, I might be totally off there...I can't find anything about the SVN import thing now, I looked at it a year or so ago, so this was just from my memory.
[12:48:06] gbee: worth checking that converting to Gettext format doesn't lose any information, causes strings to be reformatted and supports plural forms in the same way as QT
[12:48:29] justinh: gbee: people in Japan have messed with mythtv.. seen a couple of reports about channel scanning there
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[12:49:33] gbee: justinh: yeah, we have Japanese translation, but it's only 1/3rd complete
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[12:53:19] kenni: gbee: sure, it will need tons of testing before we do anything with it :) I'll probably give it a testrun in the dead period between 0.24 and 0.25
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[13:26:05] justinh: slowly but surely, 'contempt' edges its way towards completion
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[13:36:25] gbee: "justinh treats his fans with contempt"
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[13:38:34] gbee: "justinh shows contempt to fellow themers"
[13:38:49] gbee: well, you could go on all day, it's a great name :)
[13:40:41] justinh: nah, it's more like "contempt for his own work"
[13:41:26] justinh: after months & months of using it in a semi-semi-almost-ready state I'm now in 2 minds about fanart again :-\
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[13:44:41] justinh: I love the images & stuff. hate having to cover em up. might have to can em til I get a teevee with more real estate
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[14:44:08] knightr: gbee, kenni: context is saved as a comment it would seem. Do all tools that use po keep these?
[14:44:30] knightr: gbee, kenni: With Poedit (a po file tool) you have to tell it what plural form to use so I don't know how that website would deal with it.
[14:45:34] knightr: gbee, kenni: translating something from ts to po and then back seems to give a very similar file (tested with mythfrontend_fr.ts)
[14:46:52] knightr: gbee, kenni: I would much rather use a tool that deal with .ts files directly though... There are possibly things that might not get converted well from ts to po and then back correctly...
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[14:52:06] knightr: gbee, kenni: //www.mail-archive.com/qt4-preview-feedback@trolltech.com/msg00517.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/qt4-preview-feedb . . . sg00517.html
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[14:56:10] knightr: gbee, kenni: so it seems my simple test was not exhaustive enought it would seem (or I was just lucky)..
[15:00:02] skd5aner: heh, r26745 "40 second time out for channel changes" – I'm going to assume something's wrong after 10 seconds of not being able to tune something, let along 40
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[15:00:20] skd5aner: s/along/alone
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[15:01:49] justinh: is anybody that patient? LOL
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[15:03:45] iamlindoro: Note that that commit isn't exactly related to live TV, so you're not going to be watching it
[15:04:21] iamlindoro: It has more to do with not blocking the scheduler from running during a tuning state
[15:04:47] skd5aner: iamlindoro: so live tv doesn't leverage that timeout at all?
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[15:07:24] iamlindoro: skd5aner: You're still going to get the "you should have gotten a lock by now" popup way sooner than that
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[15:08:10] skd5aner: gotcha
[15:08:36] iamlindoro: The timeout in that changeset is just when the backend will "give up" on trying to let the channel change finish
[15:08:58] skd5aner: I thought part of jpoet's intent in implementing the signal monitor was to help with Live TV viewing on the HD-PVR – I know I get an error due to the length of time it takes my STB to lock in on a channel and send a clear enough signal for hte HD-PVR to record
[15:09:12] iamlindoro: An error, or the warning popup?
[15:09:21] skd5aner: sorry, warning popup
[15:09:48] skd5aner: not sure of the exact message on the popup off hand...
[15:10:10] iamlindoro: "you should have gotten a lock by now. You can continue waiting or change channels blah blah"
[15:10:48] skd5aner: but the issue is that my STB seems to take about 3–8 seconds to change channels, especially if it's going from one output resolution on a channel to a different resolution on another channel (720p to 1080i for example)...
[15:11:12] skd5aner: and it takes the HD-PVR a few additional seconds to ensure a steady output from the STB to capture
[15:11:58] skd5aner: so many times, if I pick a channel that the HD-PVR needs to tune, I have to go and select the channel – it'll "timeout" and kick me out of livetv, and then I can re-enter and tune the channel again because the channel changing script has already succesfully changed the channel from the last attempt
[15:12:17] skd5aner: iamlindoro: actually, that's not the message I get (re: you should have gotten a lock by now)
[15:12:33] skd5aner: I thikn it might be the "irrecoverable error" or something like that
[15:12:45] iamlindoro: unrecoverable recorder error
[15:13:08] skd5aner: yes, I believe so – but to be honest, that might have been a different error I saw that I'm confusing it with... let me go check, brb
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[15:18:00] skd5aner: ok, I tested it out... tuned to a random HD channel via live tv on the HD-PVR – animal planet HD, succesfully tuned and was displaying
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[15:23:30] skd5aner: hmmm, circuit breaker tripped...
[15:23:39] skd5aner: anyway...
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[15:24:08] skd5aner: ... then the HD-PVR blue light came back on for a second and went off, then about 2 seconds latter "Irrecoverable Recorder Error"
[15:24:48] skd5aner: now, if I launch live tv again, and select FX HD, it'll start playback within a few seconds no problem since the STB is already on the right channel it doesn't have to "sync" it's signal
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[15:25:25] skd5aner: I know it's just an issue because the HD-PVR tries to record too quickly with the STB – I know there were some tickets about this and I thought that was part of why jpoet wanted to implement the signal monitor
[15:26:01] skd5aner: I do have a sleep in the channel changing script to try and help solve for this, but it's about 1–2 seconds too short and any longer always times out myth
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[15:29:44] skd5aner: I think this will probably be fixed for me in 0.24 with the channel change monitor stuff jpoet worked on, which will be nice :)
[15:29:54] skd5aner: looking at the description of #6719
[15:38:26] iamlindoro: oh, you're still on .23? Then yes, those patches are designed to change the behavior
[15:38:33] iamlindoro: thought you were seeing this in trunk and was confused
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[16:30:17] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: I believe that some of the Intel cards actually expose multiple XVideo "adapters" that the application can access-- one physical device, multiple Xv interfaces-- I know that for a while to get working Xv on Intel people had to hack the code to use the second presented interface
[16:30:35] wagnerrp: funky
[16:30:36] iamlindoro: one was "textured video" and one was "overlay video"
[16:30:47] wagnerrp: erm... use opengl?
[16:31:07] iamlindoro: That's one way to do it-- but OpenGL performance on the Intel stuff is apparently nigh on unusable
[16:31:19] wagnerrp: yeah, figured as much
[16:31:23] wagnerrp: at least at higher resolutions
[16:31:47] wagnerrp: well have to get beirdo to test it when he gets his new X4500 parts in
[16:32:12] iamlindoro: mark seems to be of the opinion that GL on all chipsets can be brought into acceptable levels with some work/tweaking, though
[16:32:17] iamlindoro: and if anyone can do it, he can
[16:32:56] wagnerrp: wasnt there some 3rd party who was looking into optimizing our gl code a couple months back?
[16:33:11] wagnerrp: or were those just comments from someone passing through
[16:35:13] justinh: I think I remember that. gl developer by trade IIRC
[16:35:31] justinh: said doing very snazzy UI stuff with shaders would take him a couple of hours
[16:36:28] justinh: might've been another of those people who go "oo yeah..when I get time" then they never get time.. or forget.. or ... ;-)
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[16:40:17] iamlindoro: or are full of it
[16:40:28] wagnerrp: is this .EVO split on hddvds something to do with the layering?
[16:40:33] iamlindoro: yes
[16:40:35] wagnerrp: cant have one file spanning two layers?
[16:40:41] iamlindoro: no, apparently
[16:41:16] justinh: iamlindoro: I've lost count of the amount of things on my todo list which I DO still intend to actually do at some point. If that classes as being full of it, then sure I'm full of it too :-)
[16:41:34] iamlindoro: The people who actually end up delivering are always the people who do so out of nowhere
[16:41:46] iamlindoro: ie, they spend more time working than talking about the work they're going to do
[16:42:04] kenni: knightr: interesting...however, I don't think we can conclude anything on a message about some bug, posted to a mailing list named "Qt4-preview-feedback" back in January 2009 ;)
[16:42:16] iamlindoro: The people who show up and say how good they are at something, and how much they intend to do are always the one who deliver squat
[16:43:10] justinh: I just want intel video to suck less. that'd be nice
[16:44:05] justinh: the hardware likely does suck less now.. pity I'm stuck with older generation stuff for now
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[16:46:31] AndyCap: I think I'm using opengl on intel
[16:47:07] wagnerrp: justinh: no, its still pretty awful... http://media.bestofmicro.com/3/D/234697/origi . . . ge%20GPU.png
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[16:50:41] AndyCap: haven't tried any vaapi software yet though. :P
[16:50:55] wagnerrp: AndyCap: what chip do you have?
[16:51:59] wagnerrp: justinh: actually, im seeing something else that puts the new GMA HD stuff (i3 and i5) on comparable footing with the 9400M
[16:51:59] AndyCap: X4500HD
[16:52:08] AndyCap: i.e. G45
[16:52:19] AndyCap: not the core iX built-in
[16:52:32] wagnerrp: yeah, the 500, 4500HD, and the iX stuff will be the only ones supported
[16:52:49] wagnerrp: those are the only ones with full offload (according to wikipedia)
[16:53:32] AndyCap: the machine isn't too happy with 720p h264. but it manages.
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[16:54:19] AndyCap: it's probably got undesireable artifacts.
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[17:13:54] wagnerrp: mmm... replacement hard drive
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[17:15:34] wagnerrp: a replacement for the replacement, as it were
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[17:29:49] sphery: sometimes the replacements can be more loveable than the originals--Keanu taught me that
[17:30:32] wagnerrp: yeah, plus they get hot cheerleaders
[17:30:43] sphery: definitely
[17:31:45] ** gbee blinks **
[17:32:23] sphery: it's an American football movie called The Replacements
[17:34:07] iamlindoro: First I was afraid, s**t I was petrified
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[17:38:39] wagnerrp: you were petrified?
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[17:41:28] gbee: sphery: ah, one I'll probably never see then
[17:41:59] sphery: even if you're not a fan of American football, as wagnerrp pointed out, there are good reasons to watch it
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[17:42:08] wagnerrp: its actually fairly enjoyable
[17:42:16] sphery: Brooke...
[17:43:26] sphery: yeah, not your typical Keanu show
[17:44:11] wagnerrp: i especially like how the bouc^H^H^H^H linebackers protect their quarterback's truck
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[18:36:10] gbee: ugh, what sort of moronic special forces outfit uses frag grenades during hostage rescue
[18:36:36] wagnerrp: the awesome kind!
[18:36:43] kormoc: USA! USA! USA! We're number one!
[18:37:06] kormoc: gbee, the more folks die during the rescue, the more evil the hostage takers are
[18:37:22] wagnerrp: acceptable losses
[18:37:47] kormoc: and if they were any real important folks, they wouldn't be hostages in the first place
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[18:41:36] wagnerrp: what other country would make a movie like RED?
[18:41:43] kormoc: Hey now!
[18:42:02] ** wagnerrp just saw another trailer for it **
[18:42:22] kormoc: And was so blown away, right? right?
[18:42:26] ** wagnerrp hopes they didnt just put all the good stuff in the trailer **
[18:42:42] skd5aner: "hostages killed, terrorists win"
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[18:46:32] wagnerrp: why... why... why...
[18:46:53] wagnerrp: chevy hooked up the gasoline motor to the drive train on the volt
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[18:49:01] skd5aner: and?
[18:49:23] wagnerrp: meaning its not gasoline-electric... its just another garbage hybrid
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[20:39:28] duffydack: I had programme guides before, and I rescanned channels, and there are no channel guide info no more?
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[20:44:14] sphery: guess I can't tell duffydack he needs to set xmltvids
[20:44:18] justinh: DVBSH(/dev/dvb/adapter1/frontend0): Failed to open DVR device /dev/dvb/adapter1/dvr0 : Device or resource busy AGAIN :-(
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[20:48:59] m4xx: what is xmltvids? i'm having a similar problem that i'm trying to work out.
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[20:53:29] justinh: xmltvids are unique identifiers for every channel used by an xmltv EPG data grabber. that is how your xmltv grabber inserts the EPG data for a channnel
[20:54:06] justinh: e.g. a mythtv channel might have an xmltvid of 12345 – the xmltv grabber will then insert data for that channel when mythfilldatabase runs
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[20:54:42] m4xx: i got ya
[20:55:00] m4xx: thanks =]
[20:55:07] justinh: so.. wth can mythbackend be saying the device is in use when mythbackend is the only program which is using my tuner cards?
[20:56:36] m4xx: running more than one instance?
[20:57:03] justinh: nope
[20:57:05] justinh: as if!
[20:57:12] m4xx: lol, sry ;[
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[21:01:12] Greek-Boy: is it currently possible to bitstream True HD Audio or DTS with MythTV?
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[21:02:37] iamlindoro: Do you mean DTS, or DTS-HD?
[21:02:51] iamlindoro: DTS and AC3 can be bitstreamed in linux-- TrueHD and DTS-HD cannot
[21:03:01] Greek-Boy: DTS-HD
[21:03:16] Greek-Boy: oh man
[21:03:17] Greek-Boy: sad
[21:03:18] Greek-Boy: :-(
[21:03:45] iamlindoro: If you're sad enough, you can ad the parsing for both formats to ffmpeg and ALSA, then we can add it
[21:03:45] wagnerrp: what about >5.1 PCM?
[21:04:00] iamlindoro: 7.1 LPCM should be doable
[21:04:09] iamlindoro: s/should be/is TTBOMK/
[21:04:25] Greek-Boy: what' TTBOMK?
[21:04:40] wagnerrp: to the best of my knowledge
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[21:05:10] Greek-Boy: I guess 7.1 LPCM is about the best quality one can get huh?
[21:05:13] Greek-Boy: currently
[21:05:49] wagnerrp: its lossless
[21:06:01] Greek-Boy: ok
[21:06:28] wagnerrp: the quality you get bitstreaming 7.1 LPCM is identical to that which you would get bitstreaming the 7.1 DTS-HD
[21:06:47] Greek-Boy: that's very much debatable
[21:07:21] iamlindoro: The fact that you say so means that you have no idea how it works
[21:07:28] wagnerrp: there is the reference decode of those formats
[21:07:32] iamlindoro: But hey, have fun, good luck, best to you
[21:07:42] Greek-Boy: well ok
[21:07:47] Greek-Boy: I won't debate it
[21:07:51] wagnerrp: any psycho-acoustic filtering you do after decoding could be done just as well on the LPCM
[21:07:54] Greek-Boy: I admit, you probably know more than I do
[21:08:09] Greek-Boy: my comment was just based from what i read on forums
[21:09:39] wagnerrp: its like the argument of SPDIF vs. TOSLINK
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[21:10:10] wagnerrp: any quality-based argument is completely moot
[21:10:24] wagnerrp: since theyre exactly the same digital data streams
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[21:18:02] gbee: yeah, but TOSLINK is optical so it must be better
[21:18:32] justinh: only if it's gold plated
[21:18:50] justinh: man, these device in use messages are super annoying & perplexing now
[21:18:52] kormoc: I want my optical to be bluray!
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[21:20:47] gbee: tempted to bait someone into the old £100 vs £1 HDMI cable argument, just for sport
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[21:26:01] justinh: IIRC nobody has ever opened a ticket for there being anything racey in mythbackend regarding tuners being in use.. so maybe the tuner is busted
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[21:38:03] justinh: aha! nothing for adapter2 with PID discontinuity or failed recordings
[21:38:20] sphery: justinh: I'm pretty sure it's something in one of the distro updates for that distro
[21:38:21] justinh: so 0 & 1 are erm... pfft
[21:38:36] justinh: yeh?
[21:38:55] sphery: i.e. it started happening to users of that distro on 0.23-prerelease, 0.23-fixes (both the 0.23.0 and 0.23.1 versions), and trunk
[21:39:01] justinh: hmmm... lemme have a looky
[21:39:04] sphery: and it came out of nowhere
[21:39:14] justinh: regression in cx88-dvb or similar?
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[21:39:18] sphery: I'm guessing some V4L, kernel, or driver update broke things
[21:39:30] sphery: seems to be on most (if not all) DVB hardware on *buntu
[21:39:34] justinh: it's mad cos I really have searched the back side out of this
[21:40:17] sphery: gigem even put in a patch that makes MythTV keep trying up to 20 times when the system tells it the tuner is busy: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/26694
[21:40:26] sphery: (26695 put it into -fixes)
[21:40:48] Greek-Boy: gbee: I am actually deciding which HDMI cable to go for right now
[21:41:00] Greek-Boy: my projector is 15m away from my mythbox
[21:41:11] justinh: up to 20 times? man that sounds stubborn ;)
[21:41:28] justinh: Greek-Boy: sounds like you need a 15 metre long HDMI cable then
[21:41:38] sphery: justinh: see, also: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/455066#455066
[21:41:45] sphery: the thread is about that issue
[21:42:06] Greek-Boy: justinh: Yeah. The gold-plated one I was after is $500
[21:42:09] justinh: duh I wasn't searching on 'device or resource busy'
[21:42:15] sphery: heh
[21:42:56] sphery: yeah, only reason I knew about it was because I read the thread when it came in--and it's easy enough to find again because I knew gigem was replying in it
[21:43:30] justinh: so there maybe a kernel update you say?
[21:44:05] justinh: actually it's more likely an update broke it
[21:44:09] sphery: well, i was expecting that a kernel update or v4l update or driver update is about the only thing that would change the way the underlying dvb subsystem works, so...
[21:44:15] gbee: my suggestion would be to move your myth box, 15m is over 3x the maximum length permitted by the HDMI spec
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[21:44:39] sphery: since it started happenign for people who hadn't updated mythtv and started happening to people on multiple branches all at once
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[21:45:16] sphery: if moving the myth box isn't possible, perhaps you could move the living room?
[21:45:30] justinh: sphery: you may just have saved me a whole load of hassle digging the backend out of its new home
[21:45:33] justinh: :-)
[21:45:35] gbee: 15m is also an insane distance between a frontend and the display device
[21:45:45] sphery: justinh: remember, though, no one has yet confirmed my theory
[21:45:52] sphery: and it's all conjecture based on hearsay
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[21:46:10] justinh: well, retrying a device when it's bonged off as in use first go isn't a bad idea
[21:46:24] sphery: yeah, not too bad
[21:46:25] justinh: especially when nothing else *can* even be using it in this case
[21:46:32] sphery: yeah
[21:47:00] sphery: it does make it even more important that only mythtv be allowed to use devices (which was always the case, but more so, now)
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[21:47:15] justinh: I'll try having another poke in linuxtv to see if there's anything related to it
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[21:47:36] sphery: justinh: cool, if you can figure it out, it will make a /lot/ of people happy
[21:47:39] justinh: but hg etc makes it tricky to look in the changelogs for 'things'
[21:48:19] justinh: now I wonder would it be in cx88-dvb or just the general userspace area? hmm
[21:48:36] m4xx: any scte65scan users around?
[21:48:56] sphery: yeah, it will actually require figuring out what part of the system got changed to affect the DVB subsystem, then figuring out what change did it, then figuring out if it was an intentional change or a bug
[21:49:23] skd5aner: gbee: not necessarily – I'm going to do distributed video from my basement to all my rooms – there are good scenarios for long-distance runs from a fe to a display
[21:49:41] skd5aner: but, I've specifically wired to be able to handle that kind of distance ;)
[21:49:43] sphery: justinh: my best guess is that it's something more generic, but I don't have hard evidence...
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[21:49:59] justinh: what do other apps do? just keep banging on the door? ;-)
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[21:50:36] justinh: thing is I'm also seeing those PID discontinuity errors in my log
[21:50:38] sphery: justinh: I would actually recommend someone who's affected by it start a thread to get people to provide info about which distro, kernel version/package, dvb cards/drivers they're using to see if you can narrow it down from a consolidated list of problem reports
[21:50:51] sphery: and any other info you think might be helpful
[21:50:55] justinh: ugh.. you mean post to the users ML? :-O
[21:50:59] sphery: heh :)
[21:51:12] Beirdo: oh that will work so well.
[21:51:18] justinh: me too!
[21:51:20] justinh: ME TOO!
[21:51:34] kormoc: Me Four!
[21:51:41] justinh: oh and OT... why does it always rain on me? Is it because I lied when I was seventeen?
[21:51:48] sphery: meat? ew!
[21:51:58] justinh: yeah I'll give it a crack
[21:52:07] justinh: nothing to lose but a bit of time I guess
[21:52:26] sphery: and your sanity!  :)
[21:52:36] gbee: skd5aner: my point is that attempting to drive something 3.5x over it's spec is more often than not the point when you should stop and rethink your approach
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[21:52:55] skd5aner: very true
[21:52:56] skd5aner: :)
[21:52:57] justinh: see the way I always figured things worked in v4l & kernel land was that once something worked that was pretty much it.
[21:53:15] justinh: gbee: hdmi is actually scarily robust. or not ;-)
[21:53:15] skd5aner: or, do what I did, and think of that scenario before you build your house and wire appropriately ;)
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[21:53:34] justinh: we're still having the fallout from that 'test' I did a couple of months ago at work
[21:53:57] justinh: oooo, justin banged hdmi over 15m of cat5 without any electronics or baluns & it kept going at 1080P so...
[21:54:21] skd5aner: without baluns?
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[21:54:24] justinh: yeah
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[21:54:49] skd5aner: just attached HDMI connectors directly to cat5?
[21:54:59] justinh: I hacked up a short HDMI patch cable (male to female), soldered 2x RJ45 sockets onto each end
[21:55:20] skd5aner: um... bizarro
[21:55:22] skd5aner: and it worked?
[21:55:23] justinh: then tried patch cables to see what happened. incredibly, it just kept going
[21:55:52] justinh: I dunno what the HDMI signals looked like.. presumably pretty grotty but the video was fine
[21:55:57] gbee: there is generally no particular reason for a frontend to sit in one physical position, and certainly not 50ft from the projector, that's either one very, very big lounge/home cinema or a very strange setup
[21:56:16] justinh: you can buy 15m HDMI certified cables AFAIK
[21:56:23] justinh: which means as far as the spec goes they're ok
[21:56:39] skd5aner: gbee: my scenario is that I don't want a box at all where my display is
[21:56:44] justinh: at least for eye diagram signal integrity, yada yada
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[21:57:23] skd5aner: and I have a wiring closet (fairly large one), so I can simply extend IR over Cat5, and send the a/v back up to the display – no equipment in the room :)
[21:57:42] justinh: wth? why is i915 drm in linuxtv?
[21:58:05] sphery: I like this answer for "how long a cable should I use and will digital always work better than analog": http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html
[21:58:11] skd5aner: everything's distributed, very nice and clean – no noise, no need to mount a frontend or get furniture for the tv, etc
[21:58:14] sphery: in summary, "It depends."
[21:58:23] justinh: HDMI is actually so robust because the transceivers for the signal jibber-jabber with one another & they compensate on the fly
[21:58:37] skd5aner: now, I don't know the other guy's scenario – but mine is pretty nice actually :)
[21:58:39] justinh: it's very clever stuff
[22:00:31] skd5aner: I definitely am not running extra long HDMI cables though, I've got 3 mediums for transporting A/V to a display
[22:00:42] gbee: right, early night, my back is killing me :/
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[22:01:18] sphery: justinh: jibber-jabber... yeah, that sounds like clever :)
[22:01:20] justinh: 3 mediums? can't you just get like one really powerful medium & use her instead?
[22:01:32] streeter (streeter!~streeter@nat/redhat/x-vyzwjpsboajkcsjm) has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[22:01:37] skd5aner: 1) 5-connector mini coax, 2) RG6QS, and 3) Multiple Cat6 drops for Baluns
[22:01:48] skd5aner: so, I'm pretty well covered for running just about anything I want
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[22:02:18] justinh: heh
[22:02:28] skd5aner: too bad the latest gen VPDAU cards don't come with component out :P
[22:02:38] ** skd5aner needs to ebay a few 8600s **
[22:02:45] justinh: fwiw I'd just have used cat6 & saved the expense of the coax
[22:03:19] skd5aner: justinh: yea, but if I sell the house someday to someone, they're going to say "why is there no cable outlet at my TVs" :P
[22:03:36] skd5aner: and, it wasn't terribly expensive given what I was already installing anyway – I did all the work myself, so
[22:03:59] justinh: I meant the 5-connector mini coax. that ain't so cheap
[22:04:04] skd5aner: ah
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[22:05:18] skd5aner: Yea, well – the idea there was that I could pretty much have an analog HD output at every TV and use a matrix switcher in the closet for certain things
[22:05:26] justinh: hrm. this problem could even go deeper than the dvb subsystem in theory.. best not panic & give up yet
[22:05:38] skd5aner: still can, but the world isn't looking to kindly on the future of true HD analog output anymore :(
[22:06:23] skd5aner: but, it's there if I need it – and I don't have to leverage baluns
[22:06:35] skd5aner: and I did get a great deal on the bundled 5-wire mini-coax
[22:06:53] skd5aner: that massive thing wasn't too fun to pull though
[22:07:02] skd5aner: about an inch in diameter
[22:07:34] justinh: got some for camera feeds at work.. worked out about £1 a metre I think
[22:07:50] justinh: 10m x 5 BNC on each end
[22:08:47] skd5aner: Mine was a spool of 350ft
[22:08:49] justinh: ooo. interesting "4L/DVB: fix dvb frontend lockup"
[22:09:03] justinh: http://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git?a=commi . . . e6e0cb19b1fe
[22:09:09] justinh: that could be the very fella I'm after
[22:09:37] skd5aner: justinh: did you compile it yourself or using what came with your kernel?
[22:10:00] justinh: vanilla. why try hard? ;-)
[22:10:17] skd5aner: yea, just was curious if the issue is in the vanilla kernel
[22:10:19] skd5aner: that would suck
[22:10:27] justinh: currently on 2.6.32–34
[22:10:33] justinh: 32 ?! :-O
[22:10:34] skd5aner: man, I think I never used vanilla kernel until about 2005
[22:10:45] justinh: er.. 2.6.32–24 even
[22:11:11] justinh: well when I said vanilla I meant stock *buntu
[22:11:20] skd5aner: right, I knew :)
[22:11:39] skd5aner: running 10.04?
[22:11:42] justinh: yeah
[22:12:27] justinh: the description of that fix https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/88714/ looks kinda similar to what folks have reported on the ML
[22:13:07] justinh: oh wait maybe not
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[22:18:36] justinh: wow I'm gonna have to go back a ways to find this
[22:19:47] justinh: meh even the newest kernel ubuntu has got is still only 2.6.32
[22:20:24] justinh: tempted just to grab an hg clone, build cx88-dvb & see how I get on without patching myth
[22:20:40] justinh: or just update myth
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[22:22:19] justinh: http://git.linuxtv.org/media_tree.git?a=commi . . . 94a834cac238 could be related tho
[22:25:02] justinh: so... is a 2.6.32 kernel before or after that point? hmmm
[22:25:18] sphery: justinh: probably not super helpful, but FWIW, I'm using 2.6.31.6 and all my dvb devices work fine (saa7134_dvb + cx88_dvb)
[22:25:42] sphery: I'm not using an Hg V4L--just "vanilla"
[22:25:54] sphery: same for all drivers--vanilla kernel with no patches
[22:26:22] justinh: it only pops up once in a couple hundred recordings AFAIK
[22:26:31] justinh: or maybe a few tens of recordings
[22:26:38] ** sphery has done quite a few recordings without problems :) **
[22:27:01] justinh: yeah I never had any of this on my last box which was er.. 8.10 IIRC
[22:27:12] sphery: my 4 cards (plus 3 on another system I manage) stay busy
[22:27:40] sphery: can you find a history of when *buntu rolled out kernel/driver/v4l updates?
[22:27:52] justinh: not sure how I'd do that
[22:28:05] justinh: I think all the kernel related stuff is just in linux-kernel*
[22:28:07] sphery: nor would I... didn't know if it's posted somewhere
[22:28:08] kormoc: justinh, Linus accepted it 2009-06–16, so it's in 2.6.27.26 and higher
[22:28:12] sphery: figured someone in here might know
[22:28:59] justinh: kormoc: cheers
[22:29:44] justinh: well, rolling my own hg or updating myth is easier than a full kernel update
[22:29:58] justinh: and it might be a couple of weeks before I know if it's made any odds or not
[22:30:38] justinh: does the change to myth log that it's done retry(ies) ?
[22:30:44] sphery: unfortunately, you may have some difficulty finding relevant posts on the list, too, because of #9016 (which may have had similar symptoms, but was unrelated--then again, the similar symptoms reported may have had nothing to do with #9016 and may have been an additional issue--the problem you're currently chasing--on the same systems affected by #9016)
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[22:31:14] justinh: might be worth changing the code to say it's done a retry for completeness sakes
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[22:31:31] justinh: oh wait it does already. heh
[22:32:08] justinh: well it says it failed.. & presumably if < maxretries it'd just repeat the message
[22:32:11] justinh: marv :)
[22:32:16] sphery: justinh: yeah, says, "Opening DVR device %1 failed : %2" then "Failed to open DVR device %1 : %2" for each retry (where 1 is device and 2 is error)--all at important level, so appears in default logging
[22:32:28] sphery: heh, which is what you just said
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[22:33:11] justinh: would #22406 backport to -fixes?
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[22:33:35] sphery: it was prior to 0.23 release
[22:33:41] justinh: ruh?
[22:33:44] sphery: so it's in all 0.23, already
[22:33:51] sphery: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/26694 is new
[22:33:59] sphery: but was backported in http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/26695
[22:34:05] justinh: ah ok
[22:34:08] ** justinh svn ups **
[22:34:45] sphery: they're similar, but [22406] was for the frontend device and [26694] was for the dvr device
[22:35:01] justinh: yeh of course
[22:35:06] justinh: it's late & I smell of baby sick
[22:35:26] sphery: so, based on that, it seems that some change was made such that the dvr device is reported as being busy in more conditions than it previously was
[22:35:41] sphery: or it's not properly closed or ...
[22:36:04] justinh: or maybe there's just a period where it's supposed to be kept dead while a thread exits
[22:36:17] justinh: yada yada.. could go on forever
[22:36:44] sphery: yeah
[22:37:08] justinh: actually some of the things I've seen in the hg log could make a difference to the scanning problem I had with one of my spare tuners a while ago
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[22:47:40] sphery: wow, I set a 1hr end late for CSI: Miami because of football, and it seems that was exactly what I needed on Sun--my CSI: Miami contains all of both Undercover Boss and CSI: Miami
[22:48:09] justinh: heheh
[22:48:24] sphery: I was expecting 1hr to be overkill for what would range from a 15min to a 45min delay, but it was actually an hour off schedule
[22:48:26] justinh: man, what was in that update? it's like making everything
[22:48:39] justinh: maybe ccache expired or summink
[22:49:29] Shadow__X: sphery: nice
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[22:55:17] Virindi: anyone who has fios recently had their stb turning itself off? seems like they firmware updated it to do that and I need to figure out what the timeout value is...
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[22:58:48] justinh: well no schema update surprises anyway ;-)
[23:01:07] justinh: oh do hurry up I want to go to bed, compiler
[23:01:15] justinh: need MOARCPU again
[23:01:30] Beirdo: football needs to die a horrible death
[23:01:48] justinh: s/football/football\ &\ soccer/
[23:01:49] Beirdo: or at least stop pushing off real shows I wanna watch
[23:02:11] justinh: but MUHHHHH, sports are important!
[23:02:32] justinh: you can have your man licence revoked for saying otherwise ;)
[23:02:53] Beirdo: pish
[23:03:07] justinh: crap. after midnight. I may turn into a pumpkin. not been up this late for months
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[23:04:28] sphery: Beirdo: agreed... I don't mind it--as long as they schedule an appropriate amount of time for it and put in filler shows when it doesn't go as long as it sometimes does
[23:05:52] Beirdo: yeah
[23:05:56] justinh: I wish they'd just air the blimmin game
[23:05:59] Beirdo: they usually do for baseball
[23:06:02] justinh: no pre & post-match post mortem
[23:06:12] Beirdo: although some of those go way over too
[23:06:22] kormoc: if they would cut the hour of them standing at the line out...
[23:06:27] justinh: a 90 minute game overruns by 10 minutes.. do they cut the PM short? Hahahaha
[23:06:35] kormoc: it takes them an hour to play a 15 minute quarter....
[23:06:43] Beirdo: heh
[23:07:06] Beirdo: yeah, football's by far the worst offender here
[23:07:16] justinh: actually I think all the analysis & punditry is what turns me off watching sport on tv
[23:08:07] justinh: they come out with some classics. game of two halves & other stupid obvious nonsensical things
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[23:09:55] justinh: ding ding! mythtv updated to erm.. 26756 & nothing is apparently broken
[23:09:57] Beirdo: heh
[23:10:28] justinh: I'll go daft with a vast swathe of recordings during the day tomorrow & see if I can trip it up
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[23:19:18] ** Beirdo already IS daft **
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[23:21:55] m4xx: mythbuntu
[23:21:56] m4xx: oops
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[23:29:18] sphery: guess we won't be seeing a MythFax plugin.
[23:29:28] Beirdo: hehe
[23:29:30] sphery: and here I thought we might finally be ready for 1983
[23:29:44] Beirdo: just WTF was that dude thinking?
[23:29:50] sphery: heh, yeah
[23:29:53] sphery: I was confused, too
[23:30:34] sphery: you'd think his MUA would actually use the Reply-To address in the message...
[23:30:36] kormoc: -users?
[23:30:46] sphery: but then again, in 1983, maybe the MUAs weren't so advanced
[23:30:48] sphery: yeah
[23:30:55] sphery: Re: [mythtv-users] [sipx-users] Faxing
[23:30:56] high-rez: not that anyone would ever really want this – but it would be a simple thing to have hylafax's inbound queue of tiffs go into myth's picture stuff.
[23:31:22] Beirdo: mmmm, hylafax
[23:31:28] Beirdo: need a modem to do that
[23:31:31] sphery: that's in Nova Scotia, right?
[23:31:32] high-rez: No you don't.
[23:31:51] Beirdo: yeah, you do. somewhere.
[23:31:53] high-rez: You can software emulate a modem
[23:31:57] high-rez: iaxmodem
[23:32:00] Beirdo: oh good god
[23:32:12] Beirdo: I tried that before.
[23:32:24] high-rez: http://iaxmodem.sourceforge.net/
[23:32:35] high-rez: Works /great/ with asterisk and voip
[23:32:38] Beirdo: I know, I've tried it before. not too useful
[23:32:52] Beirdo: voip only if G.711a or G.711u
[23:33:03] high-rez: right, alaw or ulaw
[23:33:09] high-rez: g729 aint gonna work :)
[23:33:24] Beirdo: I might set it up again sometime
[23:33:30] Beirdo: give it another shot
[23:33:56] high-rez: so hylafax+iaxmodem+asterisk is a *really* good combination.
[23:34:12] high-rez: And you can have hylafax spit out tiffs that myth can display all day long!! :D
[23:34:24] Beirdo: screw tiffs. make PDFs :)
[23:34:41] high-rez: Will myth display PDFs ?
[23:34:57] Beirdo: why would I want to display faxes on myth anyways?
[23:35:07] high-rez: Cause you can dude, cause you can.
[23:35:27] Beirdo: now, faxing your "upcoming recordings" list to yourself at work...
[23:35:38] Beirdo: that could be cool for the one person who'd want to do it
[23:35:48] high-rez: Maybe you're sitting there watching an episode of boardwalk empire – and your customer calls you "I just faxed that sales order – is it ok?" you just quickly open up the picture gallery in myth and bam there it is – on your large screen display.
[23:36:00] Beirdo: booo
[23:36:00] sphery: why not just e-mail it to yourself at work?
[23:36:10] Beirdo: I don't get boardwalk empire anymore
[23:36:11] high-rez: because then you'd have to pick up your laptop.
[23:36:13] sphery: save the trees and all :)
[23:36:20] Beirdo: sphery: you quit being sensible
[23:36:24] sphery: heh
[23:36:29] high-rez: oh, erm uhm
[23:36:58] Beirdo: frigging DirecTV decided HBO on channel 70 is no longer
[23:37:11] Beirdo: and now I gotta pay even more should I want it. so meh
[23:37:32] sphery: btw, easy enough to get the upcoming recordings list with http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Myth_upcoming_recordings.pl (which, strangely, hasn't been rewritten in Python, yet :)
[23:37:40] sphery: probably because no one uses it
[23:37:47] Beirdo: hehe
[23:38:02] kormoc: or in ical format via mythweb
[23:38:03] sphery: Beirdo: but I just saw the undercover boss about DTV, so things should get better, now
[23:38:08] kormoc: so you can have it on your smart phone
[23:38:19] Beirdo: there's this new thing called "mythweb" that does it :)
[23:38:27] sphery: heh
[23:39:00] Beirdo: I demand you rewrite it in Java and "enterprise" it
[23:39:03] sphery: I actually run the upcoming recordings script in my misc status info script with: myth_upcoming_recordings.pl --plain_text --recordings -1 --no_show_scheduled --heading 'Recording Conflicts\n\n' --no_conflicts_message 'No Conflicts'
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[23:39:13] sphery: then it show all the conflicts in the next 2 weeks
[23:39:35] sphery: Note: This output could be e-mailed with a script called from a cron job that uses mailx/sendmail/... to send the e-mail.
[23:39:50] sphery: should I also mention that it could be faxed, instead?
[23:39:52] kormoc: it's so funny
[23:40:02] kormoc: I spent a fair bit of time adding rss feeds/ical feeds to mythweb
[23:40:09] kormoc: and I'd have to say, I doubt a single person uses them
[23:40:19] sphery: I know some are using the ical stuff
[23:40:20] Beirdo: yeah, most don't even realize it's there
[23:40:27] sphery: I just don't use a calendar
[23:40:57] sphery: kormoc: I think http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythical.pl should die, though, now that you have the mythweb support for it
[23:41:16] sphery: (I was very glad to move that out of contrib--and did so without worry because of the mythweb stuff)
[23:41:38] kormoc: nice
[23:41:41] Beirdo: MythicallyStupid
[23:42:17] sphery: it was funny timing--that guy submitted that script for inclusion in contrib, then about 3 weeks later, kormoc had ical support in MythWeb
[23:42:27] Beirdo: # MythTV class gripes about UPnP missing so redirect stderr if run by cron etc.
[23:42:30] Beirdo: hahah
[23:42:34] Beirdo: idiot.
[23:42:43] Beirdo: just install the perl module, dork!
[23:43:09] kormoc: sphery, it was a good idea
[23:43:16] Beirdo: # Functionality could be included in MythWeb to provide a live webCal interface.
[23:43:24] Beirdo: hmmm, why yes, it could :)
[23:44:13] sphery: kormoc: yeah, was it coincidence or did you take his idea and run with it?
[23:44:42] Beirdo: having it as a script isn't all bad, but is kinda pointless now that kormoc did it in a more maintained place :)
[23:44:53] sphery: Beirdo: heh, yeah, so many people refused to install those 2 perl modules
[23:45:48] Beirdo: "oooh, my distro doesn't have them"
[23:45:56] Beirdo: use CPAN, silly :)
[23:47:06] sphery: CPAN for gold
[23:47:25] sphery: or is CPAN the channel with all the political stuff?
[23:47:30] kormoc: sphery, I ran with his idea I think
[23:47:36] Beirdo: not that CPAN :)
[23:47:36] sphery: cool
[23:47:46] sphery: I wondered
[23:48:01] kormoc: sphery, I actually argued with him over it
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[23:48:23] kormoc: I asked him why he didn't do it in mythweb, he said it'd take too long and was too hard, so I wrote it in like 5 minutes and was done
[23:48:30] Beirdo: hehe
[23:48:30] sphery: heh
[23:48:42] Beirdo: in other words "I don't know PHP"
[23:49:55] sphery: well, if kormoc would ever finish porting MythWeb to Python, like he's supposed to, then we'd have literally ones of additional people who wanted to code for MythWeb
[23:49:56] kormoc: ooh, he claimed he did
[23:50:12] Beirdo: ones :) nice
[23:51:55] xcrracer_: what mythtv ports should i see in an lsof output?
[23:52:11] wagnerrp: 6543–6549
[23:52:35] Beirdo: not necessarily all of em, but that covers most of it
[23:52:44] xcrracer_: thanks
[23:52:45] Beirdo: oh, there's one for SSDP too
[23:53:00] Beirdo: forget the number, but it's standard
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[23:54:02] Beirdo: UDP/1900. The backend should be listening there IIRC
[23:56:22] xcrracer_: any ideas on why the front end would not see the backend after upgrading to .24? mythtv upgraded using mythbuntu daily auto-build.
[23:56:43] wagnerrp: because you didnt upgrade to 0.24
[23:56:44] sphery: heh, Catalina (Nadine Velazquez) from My Name is Earl is on CSI: Miami and her character's name is Sarah Walker, like the super-spy on Chuck
[23:57:21] sphery: xcrracer_: make sure everything restarts properly--best approach, reboot everything
[23:57:28] sphery: all backends and frontends
[23:57:43] xcrracer_: wagnerrp: what does that mean?
[23:57:55] wagnerrp: it means 0.24 has not yet been branched
[23:57:58] wagnerrp: so it does not exist
[23:58:06] wagnerrp: you cant be running 0.24, as there is no such thing
[23:59:29] Shadow__X: when i try to use the ical link at the end of mythweb upcoming recordings it comes up with an error
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