Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, September 17th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:57]

sphery:

I don't know

[00:01:31]

sphery:

I really haven't had anything to do with the server infrastructure (as I'm definitely not a sys admin--nor do I aspire to become one :)

[00:02:05]

sphery:

knightr: want to pastebin your logs? I can take a look and, if nothing else, might be able to direct you to the right person.

[00:03:20]

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[00:11:41]

knightr:

sphery: sorry, was in #mythtv.

[00:11:47]

sphery:

yeah, saw you

[00:11:58]

sphery:

was looking over the %d the translator mentioned

[00:12:05]

sphery:

and asking Beirdo if he can see a way it's valid

[00:12:25]

sphery:

I'm thinking it's a printf() habit and we lost the value for seconds at some point

[00:12:29]

knightr:

sphery: I don't think it is, sounds like something was thinking about printf instead of Qt...

[00:12:37]

sphery:

yeah

[00:12:45]

knightr:

sphery: (-; We thought about the same thing...

[00:12:48]

sphery:

trying to find what the value should be

[00:12:53]

knightr:

%n

[00:12:55]

sphery:

is it better for me to change it or not?

[00:12:58]

knightr:

pretty sure...

[00:12:59]

sphery:

no, the actual value

[00:13:02]

sphery:

like the number of seconds

[00:13:05]

sphery:

but it would be %2 :)

[00:13:09]

sphery:

for QString

[00:13:23]

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[00:13:33]

sphery:

searching history on the file to try to find the value from before we lost it

[00:13:38]

knightr:

I think this should be handled as a plural so I'm pretty sure it's %n...

[00:13:53]

knightr:

can't test it though, my backend is going nuts...

[00:14:25]

sphery:

oh

[00:14:28]

knightr:

the problem here is that we are in string freeze, this changes the strings...

[00:14:31]

sphery:

shouldn't minutes be handled the same?

[00:14:37]

sphery:

right

[00:14:51]

sphery:

so that's why I'm wondering if it's better to change it now or wait

[00:14:52]

Beirdo:

I think I found it

[00:15:33]

Beirdo:

libs/libmythtv/osd.cpp :688 is replacing %d with "%n second(s)"

[00:15:36]

sphery:

ah, yeah

[00:15:43]

knightr:

nope, I think they assume that it's always more than 1 minute so only the seconds must be plural..

[00:15:46]

sphery:

so it's a place holder that we put in and we replace

[00:16:20]

knightr:

???? Wouldn't that cause a repetition in the text?

[00:16:40]

Beirdo:

I would think so, but I dunno

[00:16:53]

sphery:

repetition of what?

[00:17:19]

knightr:

it would say something like 20 seconds seconds...

[00:17:57]

skd5aner:

I'm on day 2 of stable MBE

[00:18:23]

knightr:

skd5aner: why, it wasn't stable before?

[00:18:26]

Beirdo:

knightr: seems that way, but I dunno, I don't even use that feature

[00:18:37]

skd5aner:

RMAd the bad PSU, hope I get the new one back soon – my MBE looks like it's on quadruple bypass surgery with a PSU hanging out next to the case

[00:18:50]

knightr:

Beirdo: me neither, know somebody who uses it?

[00:18:54]

skd5aner:

knightr: my PSU started to gradually give out over the last 2 months

[00:18:58]

Beirdo:

it's like the tr() call should be there at :688

[00:19:10]

Beirdo:

but I really don't know for that stuff

[00:19:22]

sphery:

knightr: so is this not using plural form at all?

[00:19:35]

knightr:

Beirdo, skd5aner: My own backend is going nuts too...

[00:19:58]

Beirdo:

with what spew? got a pastebin of the logs?

[00:20:01]

knightr:

sphery: don't think so, give a sec, I'll check in my translation files

[00:20:34]

knightr:

Beirdo: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/ztK26T9d With so many nvidia there I have a feeling this is my video card going nuts...

[00:20:53]

sphery:

if it is doing the replacement in OSD::CheckExpiry(), it's a countdown...

[00:21:00]

sphery:

which wouldn't make sense with the string specified

[00:21:05]

sphery:

since minutes aren't changing

[00:21:27]

Beirdo:

seconds change (the countdown)

[00:21:28]

sphery:

oh, minutes is what the user set

[00:21:33]

Beirdo:

the minutes is the setting

[00:21:34]

sphery:

and seconds are how long until wew do it

[00:21:35]

sphery:

yeah

[00:21:44]

skd5aner:

tried a different (more current) version of the nvidia driver?

[00:21:46]

Beirdo:

I think it should retranslate every time it substitutes

[00:21:47]

sphery:

yeah, so it's a countdown

[00:21:59]

Beirdo:

but it currently doesn't

[00:22:23]

knightr:

sphery: no, not considered a plural form currently and should probably be...

[00:22:26]

sphery:

knightr: so the answer for the guy on the list is that they need to put %d at the location where the value for the number of seconds until shutdown

[00:22:26]

Beirdo:

and it does look like it will do like "30 second(s) seconds." after replacement

[00:22:49]

sphery:

knightr: and probably should be made to use plural form later (and translate) within the loop

[00:22:53]

sphery:

and, yeah, that

[00:23:11]

Beirdo:

but that's from code reading, not from seeing the logs :)

[00:23:16]

Beirdo:

or screen

[00:23:18]

skd5aner:

knightr: tried different versions of nvidia drivers?

[00:23:19]

sphery:

Beirdo: meaning there's probably some other place this, er, "approach" is used to do a seconds countdown and it doesn't have seconds

[00:23:29]

Beirdo:

quite likely

[00:23:51]

Beirdo:

and won't translate second(s) there either. It will always be English

[00:24:05]

sphery:

yeah

[00:24:07]

sphery:

it's ugly

[00:24:08]

Beirdo:

oh

[00:24:09]

Beirdo:

no

[00:24:11]

sphery:

oh

[00:24:13]

Beirdo:

it does tr() that

[00:24:18]

skd5aner:

oh

[00:24:20]

knightr:

sk5aner: I have been using this one for a while but I recently updated my kernel so it might be some sort of compatibility issue...

[00:24:26]

sphery:

seems wrong, still

[00:24:30]

skd5aner:

knightr: yea, I'd try the latest one

[00:24:36]

sphery:

should be translated in the first string, then just hte value provided

[00:24:40]

skd5aner:

knightr: shouldn't hurt

[00:24:41]

Beirdo:

but it still will likely have 10 second(s) seconds

[00:24:44]

knightr:

sk5aner: thanks, will try...

[00:24:51]

skd5aner:

good night

[00:24:58]

Beirdo:

no, should have only %d

[00:25:21]

Beirdo:

take the seconds out of the original string, let it translate it in the substitution where it has the number

[00:25:24]

sphery:

knightr: that "BUG: soft lockup – CPU#0 stuck for 61s! [swapper:0]" sounds like either a kernel bug or a CPU failure

[00:25:34]

Beirdo:

so s/%d seconds/%d./

[00:25:47]

Beirdo:

in tv_play.cpp

[00:25:49]

knightr:

sphery, Beirdo: Wish I could see the code but can;t right now...

[00:25:52]

sphery:

Beirdo: but would that work? Is it always "X seconds" versus "secondos X"

[00:26:13]

sphery:

(fake word used to indicate some unknown language)

[00:26:14]

knightr:

sphery: Cute, I really needed that..

[00:26:15]

Beirdo:

and then the string in the replacement is tr("%n second(s)")

[00:26:31]

knightr:

sphery: secondes (French)

[00:26:50]

Beirdo:

which may need tweaking to "%n seconds", but I don't know the tr() code requirements for fixing plurals

[00:26:51]

sphery:

knightr: will the numeral always precede the translation of seconds?

[00:26:59]

sphery:

in all languages?

[00:27:08]

sphery:

it seems we should just replace the actual value

[00:27:28]

knightr:

sphery: Can't say for sure but probably not in Hebrew or Arabic...

[00:27:30]

sphery:

unless the plural form handles the re-arranging seconds part...

[00:27:43]

knightr:

sphery: yes it can

[00:27:46]

Beirdo:

that will break for plural checking if you pretranslate the word

[00:28:00]

Beirdo:

as when it hits 1 second... it would say 1 seconds

[00:28:02]

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[00:28:08]

sphery:

knightr: ok, yeah, it seems it's doing plural form for seconds

[00:28:09]

sphery:

QString replace = QObject::tr("%n second(s)", NULL,

[00:28:09]

sphery:

now.secsTo(it.value()));

[00:28:18]

Beirdo:

yeah

[00:28:32]

knightr:

sphery: that code is buggy...

[00:28:34]

Beirdo:

as I said... may need tweaking on that tr string, I dunno

[00:28:39]

sphery:

knightr: this is the code that's replacing %d: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . osd.cpp#L681

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[00:28:59]

knightr:

sphery: Won't work because of the comment/disambiguation string being NULL... This causes problems...

[00:29:24]

sphery:

so the patch you submitted about that wasn't all the locations?

[00:29:45]

sphery:

if you haven't noticed, I'm clueless about translation stuff

[00:29:50]

Beirdo:

GAH

[00:30:06]

Beirdo:

previewgen issue on -lusers

[00:30:33]

Beirdo:

how do people keep breaking what works? It shouldn't be locking up in there

[00:30:37]

knightr:

sphery: The ones I found, looks like either miss this place or it was recently added (just like the ones I corrected, they were recently added)

[00:30:43]

ullar:

so i have a question...should i just throw it out or wait my turn >_<

[00:30:59]

sphery:

knightr: ahhh

[00:31:01]

Beirdo:

ullar: go ahead, we will do what we can

[00:31:07]

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[00:31:08]

sphery:

yeah, searchign for all would be hard

[00:31:18]

sphery:

what with line breaks and all

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[00:31:49]

Beirdo:

git grep QObject::tr | grep '%d'

[00:31:51]

Beirdo:

:)

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[00:32:01]

Beirdo:

or something similar

[00:32:06]

knightr:

sphery: what does the code for doing something similar in deletemap looks like?

[00:32:48]

Beirdo:

I need to go the heck home

[00:34:02]

sphery:

something similar in deletemap?

[00:34:05]

ullar:

so i'm a bit of linux newbie (been using it for basic stuff for about a year). just set up mythbuntu 10.04 on my desktop and i'm looking for a way to connect to it from my laptop while i'm at school. i'm not looking for someone to hold my had just need to know where to start...i'm a bit overwhelmed :p

[00:34:15]

knightr:

sphery: yep, with seconds...

[00:34:40]

sphery:

ah, you mean like: case 4: m_seekText = QObject::tr("%n second(s)", "", 1); m_seekamount = (int)roundf(framerate); break;

[00:34:41]

knightr:

sphery: Is there an easy way to consult the SVN history/log of a file with the web interface

[00:35:01]

knightr:

sphery: Yep, that one is ok...

[00:35:04]

sphery:

there's an annotate link at the top

[00:35:12]

wagnerrp:

ullar: looking for a way to access your system? or looking for a way to access mythtv?

[00:35:35]

Beirdo:

ullar: that's not really a mythtv question. You will probably get better hand-holding on that in other channels.

[00:35:42]

Beirdo:

ah

[00:35:54]

Beirdo:

sorry, I assumed... wagnerrp asked.

[00:35:55]

knightr:

sphery: ok, you mean previous revision?

[00:36:06]

sphery:

knightr: to the right of that

[00:36:14]

sphery:

tells you which commit changed which line

[00:36:29]

sphery:

the Revision Log tells you which commits changed the file

[00:36:41]

sphery:

so you might actually want Revision Log (far right)

[00:36:45]

knightr:

sphery: ah, thanks... Still wondering why my scan did not pickup that problem...

[00:37:02]

ullar:

well first i'm looking to know if it's possible to stream media to the laptop through mythtv...i like myth for my home network and if it's not possible i'll just go back to setting up a virtualbox with windows running orb which is what i was doing

[00:37:08]

ullar:

well first i'm looking to know if it's possible to stream media to the laptop through mythtv...i like myth for my home network and if it's not possible i'll just go back to setting up a virtualbox with windows running orb which is what i was doing

[00:37:21]

ullar:

sorry for the double post >_<

[00:38:27]

ullar:

stream to the laptop while abroad...just to clarify

[00:40:15]

knightr:

sphery: code is new, trying to triangulate where it came from, might explain why I didn't pick this up...

[00:40:28]

sphery:

the chances that your internet uplink is fast enough to allow streaming any kind of usable video are slim

[00:41:30]

sphery:

IMHO, the plane/train/automobile that takes you to school has /much/ higher bandwidth, allowing for high-quality video transfer (i.e. throw your recordings on a hard drive and carry them with you)

[00:43:25]

ullar:

i'm not looking to stream live tv...i read the article on mythtv talking about wireless networking and the draw backs of it and I'

[00:43:48]

knightr:

sphery: Issue appeared two weeks ago and I submitted my patch more than a week ago... It's quite possible that when I did my scan it was not present...

[00:44:20]

sphery:

yeah, sorry--I wasn't trying to blame you, I just wanted to know if it's something I should look out for in the future :)

[00:44:41]

sphery:

so it sounds like I should since there are still some around (and/or new ones being added)

[00:45:13]

knightr:

sphery: Internal server error on Trac?

[00:45:30]

sphery:

knightr: OK, on the soft lockup, I'm thinking that's a bug in a driver you're loading--like you said, quite possibly the nvidia driver

[00:45:47]

sphery:

knightr: that's usually a temporary thing

[00:45:59]

** Beirdo kicks trac in the nads **

[00:46:09]

ullar:

guess I'm going back to orb then :( i do love mythtv so far though...favorite of all the media centers i tried so far on linux...keep up the good work guys (if any of you are involved in the dev)

[00:46:14]

Beirdo:

there we go

[00:46:30]

knightr:

sphery: Don't worry, I did not think you were trying to blame me, I was wondering though why I had not picked it up (must be my Alzeihmer (sp?))...

[00:46:34]

sphery:

if you do a request for a complex operation (like Annotate) on a large file (like tv_play.cpp), it happens frequently (likely runs out of memory), but then if you try again, it usually works

[00:46:57]

sphery:

(maybe when fewer people are asking the server for stuff?)

[00:47:01]

knightr:

sphery: Ah, thanks... Guess it's time to try a new driver or card...

[00:47:13]

sphery:

or an old driver :)

[00:47:36]

knightr:

sphery: ah, thanks... hope it's not causing problems for the others...

[00:48:04]

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[00:48:10]

knightr:

sphery: I did not update it the last time I updated the kernel so quite possible...

[00:49:19]

sphery:

ah, yeah, so likely switching it (whether newer or older) would help

[00:49:48]

knightr:

sphery: as for fixing the seconds problems, what's the stance about doing this after string freeze? No sure if it's worth it though, probably won't affect a lot of people and there are screens which are much more used which are not translated yet...

[00:50:17]

knightr:

sphery: That's definitely what I'm going to try thanks to you! (-;

[00:50:28]

sphery:

knightr: IMHO, /you/ would be the one who makes that decision :)

[00:50:33]

sphery:

(and/or kenni)

[00:50:53]

sphery:

basically, you guys make the decisions that affect the translators because you're their liaison

[00:51:22]

sphery:

besides, I don't use auto-shutdown, anyway :)

[00:52:35]

knightr:

sphery: difficult to say and since this is a source code issue somebody else would have to address it...

[00:52:39]

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[00:52:43]

sphery:

phew... that was close... I thought my backend had crashed during Fringe

[00:52:44]

wagnerrp:

it would cut into precious boincing time

[00:52:55]

wagnerrp:

sphery: remember, its a rerun

[00:52:57]

knightr:

sphery: (-;

[00:53:05]

sphery:

(even if it's a re-run, it's a nice "remember last season finale before watching the new season")

[00:53:07]

Beirdo:

anywho... home

[00:53:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, yeah, plus the boinc

[00:54:16]

sphery:

I clicked on a show in "The next 10 shows that are scheduled for recording" section of the backend status page (as styled by MythWeb), and it put a # on the end of the URI, so I hit the browser Back button and it just spun...

[00:55:26]

sphery:

wonder if kormoc knows how to make it so that it doesn't try a load when you click on that...

[00:55:34]

knightr:

sphery: We promised those guys that we were in freeze (though one day ealier than Kenni and I had understood) and this is probably hardly usedso I don't think I would correct it for 0.24... Like I said there are other stuff (like the backend status page) which aren't translated and are much much more used...

[00:55:36]

sphery:

(it's the backend's HTML, not MythWeb's)

[00:55:56]

sphery:

knightr: yeah, makes sense

[00:56:11]

sphery:

and, wow, I didn't realize that the backend status page wasn't translated

[00:56:15]

knightr:

sphery: The problem for the backend status page will probably be addressed in 0.25 when mythtv-setup is put in the backend...

[00:56:21]

sphery:

wouldn't even be hard to translate... I'll have to set that up for you

[00:56:54]

knightr:

sphery: The backend is speaks English only... (-;

[00:57:30]

sphery:

hmmm...

[00:57:38]

sphery:

so we don't do any tr() stuff in the backend

[00:57:39]

knightr:

sphery: I thought this was a design decision (not to support others languages in the backend...)

[00:57:46]

sphery:

wonder if it loads translations

[00:57:49]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like it is

[00:57:57]

knightr:

sphery: I don't think so...

[00:58:08]

sphery:

right...

[00:58:18]

sphery:

so, sounds like it is a design decision

[00:58:35]

knightr:

sphery: hold on, logging on my (separate) frontend to see the source...

[00:58:42]

sphery:

I just read your comment too late, so I had already wondered aloud

[00:58:54]

knightr:

sphery: did you see it load the translations?

[00:59:11]

knightr:

sphery: which one?

[00:59:28]

sphery:

oh, no, I didn't

[00:59:30]

knightr:

sphery: this decision will have to change though when mythtv-setup ends up in the backend...

[00:59:44]

sphery:

all I've done is a grep, and saw about 6 lines with tr( in mythbackend code:

[00:59:47]

sphery:

./httpstatus.cpp:308: job.setAttribute("hostname", QObject::tr("master"));

[00:59:50]

sphery:

etc.

[01:00:25]

sphery:

so just a random job string and the how-long-until-recording-starts strings are translated

[01:00:34]

sphery:

and may not actually be if we're not loading translations, etc.

[01:00:40]

knightr:

sphery: does it load them (you can see an example of loading them in mythfilldatabase and these other small programs...

[01:00:48]

sphery:

but we do have the tr()'s in a lot of libs, so...

[01:01:13]

knightr:

sphery: the libs are shared between the backend and frontend though, no?

[01:01:33]

sphery:

no occurrence of MythTranslation in mythbackend directory

[01:02:16]

knightr:

sphery: still using vi here to look at the code so it's difficult to see what's used where... I'll eventually try to use something like Eclipse (which I am already familiar with (-; )

[01:02:23]

sphery:

looks like only mythfrontend, mythfilldatabase, mythtv-setup, mythwelcome, mythtranscode, mythcommflag, and mythlcdserver load them

[01:03:00]

sphery:

knightr: heh, I use vi + a modified version of wcgrep from the svn contrib dir + ctags

[01:03:09]

knightr:

sphery: yep, that's about right and the patch for some of these came from me and was applied by robertm...

[01:03:11]

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[01:03:24]

sphery:

cool

[01:03:40]

sphery:

well, it's good to know that the backend status page isn't translated

[01:03:48]

sphery:

in spite of a few tr()'s :)

[01:03:54]

knightr:

sphery: That's why I knew these program loaded them...

[01:04:33]

knightr:

sphery: same things happened to most of the program when the translation weren't loaded, it only shows the original string...

[01:04:50]

sphery:

yeah

[01:04:57]

knightr:

sphery: Hmm, I'm surprised a Java programmer doesn't use Eclipse (ok, maybe Netbeans...)

[01:05:12]

sphery:

I've been spoiled since my language is generally the original string langage

[01:05:47]

sphery:

Heh, don't get me started on Eclipe. If I were to use any GUI IDE for Java, it would be NetBeans because I have a philosophical difference with all Eclipse developers.

[01:06:18]

sphery:

"Let's just rewrite Java's UI framework as C/C++ code"

[01:06:22]

knightr:

sphery: Generally, why, did you make one of the phony translation TrollTech recommended doing to test translations...

[01:06:30]

sphery:

uh, why not just write C/C++ and leave Java out of it...

[01:07:04]

knightr:

sphery: You mean it's full of JNI?

[01:07:05]

wagnerrp:

because everyone loves java

[01:08:05]

sphery:

knightr: SWT is a native library for UI stuff that uses all native components. Eclipse is based on SWT and Eclipse presumes users will use SWT instead of Swing.

[01:08:19]

sphery:

SWT should die. And all the SWT developers should just go write C++ code.

[01:08:30]

knightr:

sphery: (-; (-; (-;

[01:08:55]

sphery:

But then again, I'm a bit passionate about Java being done right.

[01:08:59]

knightr:

sphery: That means that all the UI stuff in Eclipse is non portable...

[01:09:24]

sphery:

it's "portable" in that if you don't have the native components, it falls back to the JVM-provided UI stuff

[01:09:35]

knightr:

sphery: Ah, ok...

[01:09:49]

sphery:

this is why there are platform-specific versions of Eclipse that you can get that "speed up" Eclipse

[01:09:56]

knightr:

sphery: I use something worse than Eclipse at work, it's called RBD... (-;

[01:10:00]

sphery:

but you can always run the Java-only one

[01:10:38]

sphery:

but even the Java-only one doesn't use Swing properly--since, obviously, SWT is the only way to write UI code, so no sense trying to do the Swing properly

[01:10:53]

knightr:

RBD = (IBM) Rational Business Developer (if I'm not mistaken)...

[01:11:04]

sphery:

(besides, Swing is slow--or, wait, could our refusal to do Swing properly have anything to do with that... Naw, that's silly.)

[01:11:37]

sphery:

Yeah, Eclipse is being pushed by IBM, so IBM uses Eclipse as the basis for its commercial tools.

[01:11:44]

sphery:

it's Eclipse + value added :)

[01:11:52]

knightr:

sphery: Swing is not that bad... Only problem is it is that programmers who use it tend to be called swingers by others... (-;

[01:12:22]

knightr:

sphery: If you mean adding more bug is value then you are right...

[01:12:31]

sphery:

Anyway, wrong channel for my thoughts on Eclipse/Java :) Besides, no one (else) here likes Java (or, at least, is willing to admit it :).

[01:12:49]

sphery:

We fear what we fail to understand...

[01:12:55]

sphery:

;)

[01:13:19]

knightr:

sphery: oops, I guess I should not show I'm somewhat familiar with it then, thanks for the info... (-;

[01:13:25]

knightr:

(-; (-; (-;

[01:13:30]

sphery:

knightr: yeah, I haven't had the "pleasure" of using IBM's tools. I've heard mixed reviews, though... Some seem to love them, and others hate them with a passion.

[01:13:53]

sphery:

yeah, we should keep our familiarity with Java on the down low...

[01:14:36]

knightr:

sphery: Had the pleasure of opening tickets on their tracking systems (for Lotus Bloats, their variant of JSF, Cognos) always takes forever for a resolution...

[01:14:47]

knightr:

(-; (-;

[01:15:46]

sphery:

heh

[01:16:22]

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[01:16:41]

knightr:

sphery, I have to do an (app % DB) deployment tonight, will have to go for now... ttyl... (and I still haven't eaten...)

[01:16:45]

knightr:

take care!

[01:18:31]

sphery:

later

[01:18:37]

sphery:

good luck with the deployment

[01:18:46]

sphery:

(and get some food!)

[01:22:17]

knightr:

sphery: Thanks!

[01:25:07]

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[01:44:37]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why some ML threads survive...

[01:45:12]

wagnerrp:

i mean why is there so much interest in a 7yr old video card

[01:45:17]

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[01:45:45]

Beirdo:

la la la

[01:45:49]

[R]:

wagnerrp: why not?

[01:45:54]

[R]:

i have one lying around somewhere

[01:45:56]

[R]:

not in a dcomputer though

[01:45:57]

[R]:

lol

[01:46:12]

wagnerrp:

i mean you cant buy them anymore

[01:46:17]

DanC:

drat... after 3 nights of tweaking, I finally have a mythtv back-end working on linux and the frontend working on this old ppc mac mini, but I get like 1 frame per second, so it's useless

[01:46:22]

wagnerrp:

you can hardly buy systems that can even support that card anymore

[01:46:32]

wagnerrp:

the drivers dont support it anymore

[01:46:54]

wagnerrp:

DanC: what type of content?

[01:46:54]

DanC:

(mythtv front-end works fine on the same machine as the back-end, an amd64 with 6GB ram)

[01:47:08]

DanC:

broadcast HDTV

[01:47:28]

wagnerrp:

that seems awfully bad, even for an old PPC

[01:49:27]

DanC:

should it make any difference whether I'm watching live or recorded?

[01:49:40]

DanC:

(is there some way I can tell the back end to stop recording?)

[01:49:45]

Beirdo:

MPEG2 HD on a PPC mac mini? That might be asking just too much

[01:50:09]

DanC:

Beirdo, can the back-end downgrade it or something?

[01:50:09]

Beirdo:

but not having one, that's a guess

[01:50:36]

DanC:

the wireless network might be the bottleneck... lemme try wired...

[01:50:48]

Beirdo:

you can set it to auto-transcode, but it will take a while. Definitely try wired first

[01:51:25]

DanC:

of course, I don't have an ethernet connection near my TV, but maybe I can fix that.

[01:54:05]

DanC:

nope. still slow/choppy. maybe *slightly* better

[01:54:05]

Beirdo:

hmm

[01:54:09]

Beirdo:

what to eat...

[01:54:37]

DanC:

transcoding can't be done at playback time by the back-end?

[01:54:42]

Beirdo:

no

[01:55:59]

DanC:

darn... the box is so small and quiet. and, well, I don't have to buy it since I already did that several years ago ;-)

[01:56:28]

DanC:

I have a couple old PCs... one of them is not even that old, but the power supply seems to be kaput, so it won't boot

[01:56:28]

Beirdo:

what video chipset is in it, anyways?

[01:56:51]

DanC:

chipset... hmm... surely wikipedia knows...

[01:57:03]

Beirdo:

lspci would too if you are running Linux on it

[01:57:49]

Beirdo:

I know that the new 2010 Mac Mini is perfectly capable of being a frontend

[01:57:57]

Beirdo:

but the old ones... dunno

[01:58:07]

Beirdo:

this is an old Kleenex-box model?

[01:58:13]

DanC:

ATI Radeon 9200

[01:58:37]

Beirdo:

oy.

[01:59:18]

Beirdo:

the older Radeons, no idea how well they work with mythtv

[01:59:31]

** Beirdo shrugs **

[02:00:01]

DanC:

so if I want to try kludging a PC out of parts... is mythbuntu a good way to test it?

[02:00:36]

Beirdo:

I would think so

[02:00:51]

Beirdo:

assuming the versions of mythtv line up with your backend

[02:01:12]

DanC:

yeah... I just went thru the 23.0-fixes vs. 23.1 dance earlier this evening

[02:02:05]

DanC:

fortunately, it was just a matter of finding the right apt repositories and mac binaries and I didn't have to build it myself

[02:09:59]

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[02:18:30]

Beirdo:

OK, ordered food from teh Pizza Slut

[02:18:33]

Beirdo:

err Hut

[02:22:24]

Gibby is now known as Gibby_away

[02:22:39]

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[02:24:20]

DanC:

"To playback HDTV content, plan on a powerful CPU." — http://mythbuntu.org/wiki/hardware

[02:24:35]

DanC:

"The Simple Answer: Once you are in the 3.2 Ghz P4-class of CPU you should have no issues with viewing HDTV."

[02:25:14]

Beirdo:

or use VDPAU

[02:25:23]

[R]:

that's what she said

[02:25:29]

Beirdo:

which requires a recent-ish nvidia GPU

[02:25:53]

Beirdo:

hahah

[02:26:00]

Beirdo:

watching last night's Castle

[02:26:01]

** DanC goes to wikipedia school... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU **

[02:26:15]

Beirdo:

he's playing poker with well known mystery writers

[02:26:33]

Beirdo:

James Patterson, Michael Connelly, and I don't recognize the third

[02:26:59]

Beirdo:

like... the actual authors

[02:27:43]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it's a repeat, but I still find it cool

[02:27:53]

Beirdo:

and recognizing their faces... heh

[02:29:42]

Beirdo:

Stephen Cannell

[02:29:58]

Beirdo:

hahah, the guy who created The Rockford Files, it seems

[02:30:44]

Beirdo:

the other two I recognized visually... I read too many of both of their books

[02:30:56]

Beirdo:

season finale of season 2, it seems

[02:37:01]

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[03:36:17]

[R]:

in regards to HDCP

[03:36:20]

[R]:

"The disclosure means, in effect, that all Blu-ray discs can now be unlocked and copied."

[03:36:22]

[R]:

how do they figure?

[03:40:29]

sphery:

that's The Inquirer's article, right?

[03:41:14]

sphery:

while that's true, it would be a waste to do it that way (decode it with a blu-ray player, then take the raw, unencoded video and encode (lossily))

[03:41:36]

[R]:

it was part of the /. summmary of a pcmagazine article

[03:41:44]

sphery:

though I think the guy didn't get the difference between HDCP and AACS

[03:41:53]

[R]:

it seems like no one does

[03:41:55]

Beirdo:

/. can eat me

[03:41:59]

sphery:

yeah

[03:43:59]

[R]:

Intel spokesman Tom Waldrop said after two days of investigation, the company had informed its partners and licensees that the key, which was posted online on Tuesday, was indeed legitimate.

[03:44:06]

[R]:

how does it take 2 days to verify a number is correct?

[03:44:10]

[R]:

when they know what the right one is...

[03:44:40]

sphery:

I think it's more like 2 days to get permission for the press release

[03:46:10]

[R]:

lol

[03:46:49]

[R]:

reading the instructinos for generating a key... too much math

[03:48:14]

** Beirdo slaps his mythbox **

[03:48:32]

Beirdo:

New show I wanted to watch... glitched to death

[03:50:13]

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[03:50:21]

Beirdo:

it can record again tomorrow... not OTA

[03:50:23]

Beirdo:

sigh

[03:50:56]

Beirdo:

I seriously think we need a way to automatically detect "this recording is crap, re-record"

[03:51:09]

Beirdo:

based on the number of errors in decoding for one thing

[03:51:37]

** mag0o pays the kids in M&M's to do this **

[03:54:47]

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[03:58:42]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you know what this means... displayport and its 128-bit keys will become mandatory for future devices

[03:59:42]

Beirdo:

meh, that will get leaked too

[04:00:14]

wagnerrp:

but... its 72 more bits

[04:00:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:02:28]

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[04:16:23]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no idea

[04:21:50]

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[04:27:34]

Beirdo:

and the fx5200 thread continues

[04:28:03]

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[04:49:05]

Beirdo:

dangit, I want my new backend already

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[05:03:22]

miffteevee:

Hi all, i've been happy with an lcd displaying "currently recording" and song-name playing and so on. Is there a way to get the info from mythlcdserver without a display ? (im thinking through ie a telnet client or some socket-connection so that i can reach this info from other devices. Imagine LCD-info on your smartphone)

[05:04:03]

wagnerrp:

better would be to get that info from the same source mythlcdserver gets it from

[05:04:30]

wagnerrp:

(the frontend telnet socket and the backend proto socket)

[05:04:34]

miffteevee:

in essence "bypassing" lcdproc.... I know that "mythdroid" from android does it with a perl-script the intercepts communication between lcdd and mythlcdserver but it seems a bit too invasive somehow... maybe its not possible to do it other ways

[05:05:25]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: yes, true, but I've not have any luck with status info from the frontend (you can get "location" but not the item selected and so on)

[05:06:25]

miffteevee:

and Im a bit intimidated when it comes to implementing BE-protocol in a small android-app for my hobby-use (im not that experienced a programmer)

[05:07:36]

miffteevee:

i've made telnet-connection work with an android and this makes for an excellent remote-control, but seeing what is being selected without turning on the tv would be very nice to have :)

[05:08:33]

wagnerrp:

'query location'

[05:08:41]

wagnerrp:

it works for playback

[05:08:42]

miffteevee:

...I guess theres no way around it then ;)

[05:08:44]

wagnerrp:

but not for selection

[05:08:50]

miffteevee:

exactly

[05:09:27]

miffteevee:

so, its quite difficult to navigate to the music-screen or something similar (without using jumppoints)

[05:10:02]

wagnerrp:

id be interested to know where its getting that information from, if not from those two interfaces

[05:10:18]

Beirdo:

OK, here goes nothin

[05:10:47]

miffteevee:

also, the LCD display shows currently recording and so on (which can be fetched from http://localhost:6544 and slicing through the html.. but its not a pretty solution

[05:11:56]

[R]:

oh man... how evil is writing microcontroller code in BASIC

[05:14:52]

miffteevee:

a bit naive maybe, but I tried telnet'ing to the mythlcdserver (running in verbose mode and a known port). The connection is made but no greeting or anything to make it appear alive... googling "mythlcdserver protocol" revealed nothing of use.

[05:18:32]

miffteevee:

maybe, if i actually had any talent programming, a dummy-driver for lcdproc might be the solution. A driver that forwards the datagrams to a port... but thats not very generic... I would imagine theres brighter solutions than that... As wagnerrp mentioned, connecting to the BE should(?) be the way to do it. I hope u can give me some pointers :)

[05:23:10]

wagnerrp:

ideally, all that stuff would be exposed through the existing backend or frontend protocols

[05:23:13]

wagnerrp:

but its not

[05:23:28]

wagnerrp:

got a list of stuff you would like access to through there?

[05:23:43]

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[05:25:30]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: no, its actually just to monitor the box from the phone without turning on the tv

[05:26:24]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: im looking at the wiki now for the BE protocol and theres is a lot of info however im missing the basic steps. How to get a respond from the backend ?

[05:27:04]

wagnerrp:

you send a command, it responds

[05:28:16]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: telnet to localhost:6543 gives me a prompt, but sending MYTH_PROTO_VERSION 62 does not give any response ?

[05:28:53]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure thats not the command it says to use on the wiki

[05:29:00]

miffteevee:

(i've also tried with a token)

[05:29:13]

wagnerrp:

and it should give a response to that

[05:29:53]

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[05:29:56]

miffteevee:

no response :-/

[05:29:57]

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[05:31:02]

miffteevee:

argh sorry, I needed the "21" as a first command before MYTH_PROTO.... (silly me thought it was a line number or something)

[05:31:16]

wagnerrp:

are you sending that specifically? or .... yeah, the command string length

[05:31:54]

wagnerrp:

you may want to check out the python bindings

[05:31:57]

miffteevee:

ah... a length-value protocol... that should've been obvious, sorry about that

[05:32:05]

wagnerrp:

if you turn verbosity all the way up

[05:32:14]

miffteevee:

this yields a response: "21 MYTH_PROTO_VERSION 40"

[05:32:15]

wagnerrp:

it will log both sides of the protocol to the screen

[05:32:21]

wagnerrp:

40???

[05:32:51]

wagnerrp:

havent upgraded in a couple years have you

[05:33:03]

miffteevee:

ah, nice to now about the logging of both sides... heh, yes the "40" is just from the wiki, copy-pasted.... my server says "56"

[05:33:07]

wagnerrp:

the documentation on the wiki is intended for trunk

[05:33:15]

miffteevee:

its an early .23 :)

[05:33:25]

wagnerrp:

well, its 0.23, as opposed to 0.23.1

[05:34:49]

Beirdo:

note. changing your inputs via direct db manipulation is for chumps.

[05:34:53]

Beirdo:

don't do it.

[05:35:05]

miffteevee:

well, it works with my ION mini-itx complete with hw-acc so Im reluctant to upgrading as long as it works ;)

[05:35:23]

wagnerrp:

anyway, in the python bindings, you can hit the protocol directly with ... be = MythBE(); be.backendCommand(<your command>)

[05:35:43]

wagnerrp:

it will automatically measure the command length, you dont need to do that

[05:35:47]

[R]:

i should learn the python bindings and do something cool

[05:35:51]

[R]:

but i have no ideas :(

[05:36:39]

wagnerrp:

and for logging, try MythLog._setlevel('important,socket,network')

[05:36:39]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: ah thats neat ! ...I suppose that might come in handy for testing :)

[05:37:11]

wagnerrp:

the command 'mythpython' opens an interpreter with all the imports done automatically

[05:38:05]

miffteevee:

cool ! (I think I'll try it directly in java though)

[05:38:21]

wagnerrp:

there is a 'very aged' MythJ library

[05:39:13]

wagnerrp:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mythtvj/

[05:40:37]

miffteevee:

yes i also saw that when googling my way through this... I keep wondering why Mythdroid relies on the perl-intercept-script between lcdproc and the lcdserver

[05:41:00]

wagnerrp:

likely because it wants to use information that is not exposed in any other manner

[05:42:25]

miffteevee:

glancing at the wiki for the protocol it might be that "currently recording" is not retrievable from the BE... ill have to look into that... And, im still at a loss when it comes to figuring out what option the frontends cursor is pointing at when the tv is off

[05:43:14]

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[05:43:31]

wagnerrp:

im sure its in there somewhere

[05:43:46]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: yes and I might also come to realise this... Its just a bit strange that there isnt any straightforward way to get this info, other than hooking up a LCD

[05:44:13]

wagnerrp:

miffteevee: there are a lot of parts of mythtv that lack cohesion

[05:44:19]

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[05:44:19]

miffteevee:

at least, it leaves me thinking: there's gotta be some way into this :)

[05:44:35]

wagnerrp:

people saw a need for something, and implemented it in its own manner, rather than using some existing interface

[05:44:39]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: yes, you're probably right :)

[05:45:01]

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[05:45:22]

wagnerrp:

i mean even the frontend and backend protocols are largely maintained by the same dev, but have totally different styles

[05:45:47]

wagnerrp:

one is meant for a data interface

[05:45:57]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: I wish I was better at reading code, then I might find some clues in the mythlcdserver-source (finding out how it knows what option is highlighted in the frontend)

[05:45:59]

wagnerrp:

the other seems to be designed to be more user friendly

[05:46:26]

wagnerrp:

i suspect the plugins that support it have it hard coded in

[05:46:55]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: yes, and the other is the command-interface right ? ...this is also peculiar to me, but im not that tech-heavy, there must be some reasons for it

[05:47:19]

wagnerrp:

ah, here we go

[05:47:40]

wagnerrp:

GET_FREE_RECORDER_LIST to figure out which ones are in use

[05:48:02]

wagnerrp:

and then QUERY_RECORDER with GET_CURRENT_RECORDING

[05:49:14]

miffteevee:

i dont think thats enough

[05:49:19]

wagnerrp:

i need to fill out that page some more, theres a lot of stuff in QUERY_RECORDER

[05:49:34]

miffteevee:

yes, but no page for GET_CURRENT_RECORDING ?

[05:49:57]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/QUERY_RECORDER_%28Myth . . . NT_RECORDING

[05:49:58]

miffteevee:

I think it only retrieves file-path and name... on the LCD theres info from the EPG

[05:50:15]

wagnerrp:

it returns a full programinfo

[05:50:38]

miffteevee:

oh yes, you're right ! nice !

[05:50:56]

miffteevee:

thats it then ! :D

[05:52:15]

miffteevee:

and then I've got to try digging in the lcdserver-source for clues to the FE monitoring

[05:52:30]

** Beirdo yawns **

[05:52:45]

Beirdo:

OK, I think I worked out the funkiness

[05:52:54]

wagnerrp:

150k netflix users have each rated over 5k movies

[05:52:57]

wagnerrp:

thats a lot of movies...

[05:53:09]

[R]:

5k? i thought it said 50k

[05:53:12]

[R]:

did i misread it?

[05:53:30]

miffteevee:

wagnerrp: Thank you very -very- much, you been a great help. I've searched and read for a couple of days now... always good to get some input from others when stuck :)

[05:53:34]

wagnerrp:

a few hundred have done 50k or more each

[05:53:52]

Beirdo:

2010-09–16 22:50:38.497 [mpeg2video @ 0x7fab3d921180]warning: first frame is no keyframe

[05:53:59]

Beirdo:

oh, I love that spew...

[05:54:20]

Beirdo:

that's on a perfectly fine recording... searching for logo in an ivtv recording

[05:54:32]

miffteevee:

[R]: I saw the 50k too... it says 5k further down in the article

[05:55:39]

wagnerrp:

seems its part of their recommendation system

[05:55:52]

wagnerrp:

the more you rate, the better your recommendations will be

[05:55:58]

wagnerrp:

in theory

[05:57:50]

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[06:02:49]

Beirdo:

wonder if it would work better if my ivtv stuff were TS instead of PS

[06:03:21]

wagnerrp:

first frame out of an ivtv recording should always be a keyframe

[06:03:28]

wagnerrp:

its not like youre picking it up mid-stream

[06:03:45]

Beirdo:

it's as it's seeking through the file looking for the logo that it spews that

[06:04:18]

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[06:04:30]

Beirdo:

not during playback or the main commflag run

[06:04:35]

Beirdo:

just logo search

[06:09:08]

Beirdo:

I can see why

[06:09:47]

Beirdo:

it steps forward by 2s increments

[06:10:09]

Beirdo:

and not keyframe aligned

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[07:06:32]

wagnerrp:

why is the OSX page such a spam target?

[07:07:12]

Beirdo:

heh

[07:07:22]

Beirdo:

dunno

[07:07:38]

Beirdo:

I guess I'll head for bed

[07:08:43]

wagnerrp:

that sounds like a good idea

[07:08:52]

wagnerrp:

got like 4 hours of sleep last night

[07:09:04]

Beirdo:

ugh!

[07:09:13]

Beirdo:

I was a bit better but not significantly

[07:09:16]

Beirdo:

5.5

[07:09:26]

Beirdo:

night

[07:20:58]

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[07:55:30]

wagnerrp:

i really dont understand people who recompress bluray

[07:55:48]

[R]:

wagnerrp: how much is it uncomprssed? like 30gb?

[07:56:01]

wagnerrp:

like 600gb

[07:56:27]

[R]:

lol

[07:56:31]

[R]:

you know what i meant

[07:56:43]

wagnerrp:

or 1200gb if you consider colorspace a form of compression

[07:56:54]

wagnerrp:

yeah, usually 20–30gb for the main video

[07:57:23]

[R]:

10% off WD hard drives on new egg

[07:57:25]

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[07:57:58]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats what... $2 in disk space?

[07:58:07]

[R]:

why would you want to buy a 20 pack of hard drives

[07:58:38]

wagnerrp:

surely an extra $2 per movie is worth not having to spend dozens of CPU hours re-encoding things

[07:58:44]

wagnerrp:

[R]: youre a small system builder?

[07:59:00]

[R]:

hrm, i guess

[07:59:14]

[R]:

wagnerrp: but its a one time operation

[07:59:28]

wagnerrp:

that hard drive is a one time purchase

[07:59:47]

[R]:

but you can do a set it and forget it for the reencode

[08:00:05]

wagnerrp:

you can store it to disk and forget it

[08:00:15]

[R]:

lol

[08:00:15]

wagnerrp:

and youre completely done in an hour

[08:00:38]

[R]:

15% off bluray drives

[08:02:24]

[R]:

TRENDnet TW100-BRV204 100 Simultaneous Sessions Cable/DSL Firewall Router

[08:02:27]

[R]:

is 100 sessions alot?

[08:02:41]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea what that means

[08:02:42]

clever:

depends on what they define as a session

[08:02:53]

wagnerrp:

100 simultaneous wireless clients?

[08:03:00]

wagnerrp:

100 individual states on the firewall?

[08:03:18]

[R]:

its wired only

[08:03:25]

clever:

my current router is tracking 3298 connections (tcp and udp)

[08:04:28]

clever:

but i can clearly see alot that are half-dead and just taking up space waiting to expire

[08:05:03]

[R]:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856502002

[08:05:06]

[R]:

they're joking right...

[08:05:39]

clever:

.....

[08:06:14]

clever:

is that a computer inside a model car?.....

[08:06:21]

[R]:

yes

[08:06:32]

clever:

theres usb ports in the front bumper......

[08:07:28]

clever:

would be a good way to hide some evidence from the cops :P

[08:07:49]

clever:

just make the headlights blink and connect it to wifi, and they probly wont even think its a computer

[08:08:31]

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[08:08:54]

clever:

cant see any other point for that, enless you want your mythfrontend to not look like an ugly box

[08:09:06]

clever:

hidden in plain sight

[08:09:15]

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[08:09:38]

[R]:

why would you have a toy car with wires coming out of it in your entertainment center

[08:10:28]

clever:

its less ugly then half a laptop stuck under an STB

[08:10:39]

clever:

something you could leave beside the tv and it not look that out of place

[08:11:04]

[R]:

lol

[08:11:51]

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[08:13:19]

clever:

would be alot simpler/cheaper though to hide it behind the tv stand

[08:14:12]

[R]:

i forget who here talked about just mounting a motherbaord straight onto a tv stand

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[13:10:45]

gavinp:

I am going to make my FE diskless

[13:11:03]

gavinp:

it accesses over NFS faster than local disk anyway, so it will if anything be faster

[13:12:45]

gavinp:

Swap over NFS? Sure!

[13:22:50]

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[13:33:04]

Gibby:

gavinp: What OS is your FE?

[13:33:18]

gavinp:

Ubuntu Lucid

[13:33:39]

Gibby:

what video card?

[13:33:41]

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[13:33:49]

gavinp:

It's an Asrock ION 330

[13:34:08]

Gibby:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/network-boot-mythbuntu-diskless

[13:34:32]

Gibby:

That will get you all the way except the nvidia drivers. I just got my zotac lastnight and got it working with the nvidia drivers was a little tricky

[13:34:46]

gavinp:

you, sir, are the man.

[13:34:51]

gavinp:

thanks.

[13:35:37]

gavinp:

so that's a very similar setup

[13:35:45]

gavinp:

my hope is to just spin down the disk in the machine

[13:35:48]

gavinp:

cut noise & heat

[13:36:01]

gavinp:

i'll spin it up periodically to buddy-backup data around the network

[13:36:09]

Gibby:

i don't even have a harddrive in mine

[13:36:37]

gavinp:

mine was a system that came with one, and it's a smallish 2.5"

[13:36:40]

Gibby:

I will update the How To today to include installing the Nvidia drivers

[13:36:41]

gavinp:

so i don't see a reason to remove itr

[13:37:02]

gavinp:

sgtm++

[13:37:33]

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[13:37:34]

Gibby:

?

[13:37:40]

gavinp:

sounds good to me

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[13:38:28]

Gibby:

ah

[13:39:21]

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[13:43:02]

Bmyers:

any mac mythtv FE's here?

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[13:50:45]

Gibby:

gavinp: That howto is updated with nvidia install now

[13:52:00]

gavinp:

that is the awesome

[13:58:53]

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[14:10:50]

** Captain_Murdoch notices we have our weekly SSD thread on the -users mailing list now. **

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dewman:

i'm curious as to what kind of network switches people use.....cheap store bought linksys or smc items or highend switches

[14:41:13]

mag0o:

i use whatever I've been given by folks that think their stuff is broken

[14:42:39]

dewman:

lol

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bradd_:

is there a page on the wiki describing the current preferred method for cutting commercials from hdpvr recordings? cant seem to find anything...

[15:44:24]

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[15:49:18]

skd5aner:

hmmm, just ran across this – it was announced today: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/ &ndash ; preview release of native 64-bit flash support on linux, OS X, and Windows

[15:49:29]

skd5aner:

"square"

[15:50:07]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: Has been around for several days (and a part of multiple discussions in #mythtv during that time)

[15:50:24]

iamlindoro:

Is it only coincidence that you mention it while we've been talking about it in #mythtv for a while?

[15:50:39]

skd5aner:

ah, I see... was looking at a news release that was dated today

[15:51:01]

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[15:51:10]

skd5aner:

I was in the middle of a reboot, just rejoined IRC about 2 mins ago

[15:51:20]

skd5aner:

was off for about an hour

[15:52:14]

skd5aner:

looking up at #mythtv, I see it being mentioned in the last few minutes, but wasn't looking – pure coincidence :)

[15:55:18]

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[15:55:39]

skd5aner:

any noticable improvements with MNV?

[15:58:59]

iamlindoro:

Couldn't tell you

[15:59:40]

iamlindoro:

10.2 appears to have some level of CrystalHD support, but also appears buggy, and I hate flash anyway

[16:07:16]

iamlindoro:

plus CHD support is interesting, but I don't see it ever having a broad acceptance like VDPAU

[16:07:49]

iamlindoro:

ie, it's so much less capable than VDPAU, and it's almost never your only option except on a netbook

[16:13:53]

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[16:32:14]

skd5aner:

gotcha – yea, I've played with MNV minimally (it's great when trying to show the wife clips I've run across), but I get glitchy playback several times with the current driver I have installed

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[16:33:13]

skd5aner:

BTW, I know there's a bit of info on the MNV wiki page regarding focus and clicking, etc... but how do you change the quality and/or make a video full screen when using the youtube grabber without causing issues with controlling mfe?

[16:33:15]

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[16:55:12]

iamlindoro:

You don't

[16:55:18]

** Beirdo loads $35 into his iTunes account... gotta get Angry Birds. **

[16:55:57]

Beirdo:

err $25

[16:56:01]

bradd_:

since when is angry birds $35..i paid 99 cents

[16:57:07]

Beirdo:

yeah

[16:57:15]

Beirdo:

and I had $0.42 left in there :)

[16:57:48]

Beirdo:

I'm sure I'll end up with more pointless crap too

[17:01:01]

Beirdo:

I hate it when crap starts up with music playing

[17:04:50]

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[17:05:14]

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[17:42:25]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: so, MNV is a "you get what you get" kind of interface for the time being? No adjusting video quality/full screen currently? I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some obvious "yes, it works but you have to do it this way" kind of thing

[17:43:16]

iamlindoro:

Going fullscreen/toggling controls means you need to be prepared to then fix the focus issue in the manner specified in the instructions

[17:43:30]

skd5aner:

yea, but that doesn't work for me for some reason...

[17:43:32]

iamlindoro:

ie, you can do anything you like with it, you just need to be prepared to click on another clickable widget thereafter

[17:44:02]

skd5aner:

this part of the wiki – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythNetvision#Help . . . the_video.21

[17:44:03]

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[17:44:14]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: Then you are not clicking a clickable widget

[17:44:28]

skd5aner:

where it says click on another focusable widget – I try that, but apparently I must not be clicking on the right thing?

[17:45:00]

skd5aner:

I click on the two bars, but it never responds to any input after I do that

[17:45:28]

skd5aner:

Not sure if I'm truly not clicking on the right spot, or if it's simply not working as the instructions say it should

[17:46:26]

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[17:46:43]

skd5aner:

I've tried a few dozen times, but no matter how many times I try to click on the browser bar it never seems to regain focus

[17:47:19]

skd5aner:

I mean, not necessarily clicking "a few dozen times" but have experimented trying to get it to work on a dozen or so different occasions

[17:47:28]

skd5aner:

any thoughts?

[17:47:39]

skd5aner:

I'd love to be able to figure it out

[17:50:57]

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[17:53:48]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: just went and tried again. Alas, I wasn't clikcing the correct bar. I swear I tried clicking that before, but I was clicking on the right-side bar at the top instead of the left side... thanks

[17:54:11]

skd5aner:

Happy to report it was user error :)

[17:57:09]

skd5aner:

heh – Chuck Norris goalie mask – http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/p . . . 7&ref=nf

[17:57:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, is there any standard way to get shared memory in python without a pile of third party libs?

[17:59:01]

ThisOtherGuy:

Hi all – I have "auto-transcode" checked in mythweb, but it doesn't look like my it transcoded after the recording finished – anyone have any ideas what I can do?

[17:59:34]

kormoc:

turn on the auto-transcode job in mythtv-setup? make sure your default transcode profile is setup?

[18:00:12]

ThisOtherGuy:

i set up the profile (Low quality) but I didn't change anything in mythtv-setup – lemme check that out – thanks

[18:01:34]

ThisOtherGuy:

Does transcoding replace the original file?

[18:01:44]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: shared memory between multiple processes?

[18:02:08]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, in this case, persistent memory between script runs

[18:02:28]

wagnerrp:

there is a 'processing' module, designed to behave similarly to the 'threading' module

[18:03:00]

wagnerrp:

or you could make a temp file in /dev/shm

[18:03:27]

wagnerrp:

or if the processes do not need to run concurrently, you can just use 'pickle' to store and load an object

[18:03:49]

wagnerrp:

look at the 'mythwikiscripts' tool

[18:03:51]

kormoc:

/dev/shm actually works

[18:04:09]

wagnerrp:

between multiple runs, it stores the processed data in /tmp/..., as a pickled object

[18:04:39]

wagnerrp:

the /dev/shm method just seems like an ugly hack, IMHO

[18:04:48]

wagnerrp:

theres got to be a better way, i just dont know of it

[18:05:33]

kormoc:

Heh, but it does allow visibility and administrative flushing without special tools

[18:10:22]

wagnerrp:

if i didnt know better, i would swear this looked like spam... http://mythtv.org/wiki?title=Optimizing_Perfo . . . ;oldid=48157

[18:10:42]

wagnerrp:

'check out this great script', with a link to the base of a site, and a first post

[18:10:48]

wagnerrp:

crazy people...

[18:17:30]

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[18:23:02]

sphery:

heh

[18:23:26]

sphery:

that's from the guy who wrote the bash tuning script, then was surprised when Beirdo told him about kormoc's love, mysqltuner.pl

[18:23:44]

** kormoc blinks **

[18:23:47]

kormoc:

-users?

[18:23:50]

sphery:

yeah

[18:24:02]

sphery:

Beirdo didn't mention you, but I will forever associate you with that script

[18:24:11]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:24:31]

wagnerrp:

yeah, some user wrote some bash script which just pulled and printed a couple mysql parameters

[18:24:44]

wagnerrp:

hardly a 'tuning' script

[18:25:18]

wagnerrp:

but... the thread was getting a bit out of hand (there were already 2 replies) so Beirdo dropped that on it

[18:25:19]

kormoc:

ha

[18:26:17]

kormoc:

table_open_cache is hardly a common issue for most people

[18:27:22]

sphery:

are you saying that <random blog> may not have been totally accurate?

[18:27:24]

ThisOtherGuy:

kormoc: it looks like autotranscode job is enabled in mythtv-setup – any other ideas why it didn't run?

[18:27:38]

sphery:

ThisOtherGuy: has to be enabled in 3 places

[18:27:55]

sphery:

on host, on recording rule, and a third place

[18:28:01]

sphery:

(pretty sure there's a third)

[18:28:03]

ThisOtherGuy:

third place?

[18:28:28]

sphery:

yeah, the one I can never remember

[18:28:42]

sphery:

makes perfect sense once Capt M says it, but I never remember

[18:28:53]

kormoc:

you have to allow the job queue to run it, have it in the queue and have the queue running on the host

[18:29:07]

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[18:30:36]

sphery:

maybe I'm thinking about the jobs on same host setting (which can interfere when you disable those jobs on this host)?

[18:31:47]

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[18:32:54]

ThisOtherGuy:

I have a show that just started recording – it has a commercial detection job in the queue, should it have a transcode job in the queue if I enabled auto-transcode?

[18:33:17]

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[18:33:18]

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[18:33:27]

sphery:

maybe not until after the commflag--depending on your setting for flag-before-transcode

[18:33:41]

sphery:

and probably not until it completes recording

[18:34:02]

ThisOtherGuy:

my setting is after – I'll check again at 3pm – thanks!

[18:34:36]

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[18:34:51]

sphery:

ThisOtherGuy: recording profile = #3

[18:35:02]

sphery:

vindicated!

[18:35:16]

sphery:

(and one I will always forget)

[18:36:04]

sphery:

i.e. it doesn't make sense to have your high quality profile auto-transcode

[18:37:27]

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[18:41:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

transcode has to be enabled on teh scheduled recording, on the recording profile (ie, only transcode HD recordings, not SD), and in mythtv-setup to allow the jobs to run on the backend.

[18:42:01]

ThisOtherGuy:

sphery – if enable auto-transcode is turned on in the profile, but not in the recording schedule then it won't transcode right?

[18:42:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

right

[18:42:45]

ThisOtherGuy:

cool – that's what I was missing – thanks

[18:42:53]

wagnerrp:

devinheitmueller: (nearly) all tuner card pages removed from the wiki, as suggested

[18:43:06]

ThisOtherGuy:

will that work for a show that's recording right now (i.e. I change the profile value 12 minutes into the show)

[18:43:10]

wagnerrp:

right now, weve got a dozen or two left over that did not exist on the linuxtv wiki

[18:43:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

ThisOtherGuy, it's a 3D matrix of backends, tuners, and recording profiles.

[18:43:21]

wagnerrp:

someone will have to migrate those over before theyre deleted

[18:43:42]

devinheitmueller:

wagnerrp: nice.

[18:44:04]

Beirdo:

heya devinheitmueller :)

[18:44:16]

Captain_Murdoch:

ThisOtherGuy, not sure. I don't know if that info is reloaded when the recording completes or not. I doubt it though.

[18:44:20]

devinheitmueller:

I've never been against there being a page for those cards that required some whacky hack to get running under MythTV, but it never made sense to duplicate every card on the MythTV wiki. It just isn't practical from a maintenance standpoint.

[18:44:31]

ThisOtherGuy:

k – that seems fair – thanks again

[18:44:34]

wagnerrp:

agreed

[18:46:09]

Beirdo:

woohoo. HVR-2250 is waiting for me at home

[18:46:30]

wagnerrp:

goind to drop the two 250s? or just add to them?

[18:46:35]

Beirdo:

too bad the backend parts are due Monday

[18:46:44]

Beirdo:

they will be going into the dev box

[18:46:57]

Beirdo:

the mobo has no PCI slots :)

[18:47:21]

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[18:47:21]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[18:47:29]

wagnerrp:

right, the mini-itx one

[18:47:30]

Beirdo:

here's hoping that I'm one of the luckier ones that doesn't get issues with the new analog support :)

[18:47:36]

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[18:47:49]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: make sure you get the latest code drop. There was a bug found in the buffer handling which Steven fixed last week.

[18:47:55]

Beirdo:

Cool

[18:47:58]

Beirdo:

Will do

[18:48:10]

devinheitmueller:

a whole bunch of the early adopters got slammed with the issue.

[18:48:13]

Beirdo:

I need to find the link to send him a donation :)

[18:48:16]

devinheitmueller:

(it was actually a mege bug)

[18:48:21]

devinheitmueller:

s/mege/merge/

[18:48:29]

Beirdo:

ahh, those are always fun

[18:48:44]

devinheitmueller:

yup.

[18:50:38]

ThisOtherGuy:

Is the filesize field in the recorded table supposed to be updated after the transcode process finishes?

[18:50:57]

devinheitmueller:

Beirdo: there is a "donate" button at the bottom of his blog page: http://www.steventoth.net/blog/products/hvr-2250/

[18:51:08]

Beirdo:

eeexcellent

[18:51:24]

Beirdo:

I knew I had seen it somewhere, and just hadn't found it again

[18:52:55]

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[18:55:07]

Beirdo:

and done :)

[18:57:10]

Beirdo:

I'm all for expressing my appreciation when I can

[19:01:56]

stuartm:

I'm trying to test a mythgame theme, but clearly I'm too dumb because I'm struggling over basic questions like where mythgame looks when scanning? It appears to support 'PC' games (non-emulator), but there is no option to configure where they are installed?

[19:04:00]

devinheitmueller:

stuartm: you're not supposed to be "playing games" on your MytTV! It's for watching TV!

[19:04:26]

Beirdo:

is there a proper way to force an immediate reschedule?

[19:04:47]

Beirdo:

SIGHUP the backend or the like?

[19:04:57]

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[19:05:25]

skd5aner:

mythbackend --resched

[19:06:11]

Beirdo:

thank you. I thought there was a way :)

[19:06:14]

stuartm:

devinheitmueller: I wholeheartedly agree :) Considering how unintuitive the setup process is, I'm laying the groundwork to drop mythgame as an official plugin unless someone improves it

[19:06:24]

devinheitmueller:

heh.

[19:06:41]

devinheitmueller:

Hey, did you and j-rod make any progress on that X11 input issue?

[19:07:07]

stuartm:

nope, X11 appears to be a dead end

[19:07:15]

devinheitmueller:

grrrr...

[19:07:59]

devinheitmueller:

Nice one Mauro. Let's build a whole new IR infrastructure that cannot be used by the most popular application that actually needs IR support.

[19:09:05]

stuartm:

if we want to continue with 'native' input support, direct access to /dev/input seems like the only course, but there are limitations with that approach

[19:09:06]

devinheitmueller:

Anyway, I'll quit my bitching.

[19:09:43]

devinheitmueller:

Yeah, like "gee the only applications that can use a remote control are those that either have root or on systems with weird udev rules".

[19:11:59]

stuartm:

yup exactly, we need root access (a mythinputdaemon running) or we require users to install a udev rule which re-writes perms on /dev/input to allow mythfrontend access – I detest both with equal measure

[19:12:48]

devinheitmueller:

The root access approach is simpler and less error prone, but an opportunity for exploitation. The udev rule approach is probably a non-starter because it will be so hard for users to get setup properly.

[19:14:17]

devinheitmueller:

I wonder if the IR core can create the inputdev devices with permissions 644 by default (independent of the udev rules defined).

[19:14:41]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: I have been working on improving MythGame

[19:14:44]

stuartm:

fwiw, that's how I believe XBMC does it, they have an input daemon/script – though neither Jarod or I could work it out for sure, their code is a labyrinth and grepping got us nowhere, e.g. they don't include input.h anywhere which you'd think would be a requirement to translate codes

[19:14:49]

devinheitmueller:

In that model, IR devices would be accessible by default, and security conscious environments can override the permissions with a udev rule.

[19:14:55]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Wrote metadata grabbing for it this cycle, and closed all bugs against it

[19:15:14]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: With further plans to rewrite it in our now-traditional three-view fashion

[19:15:42]

iamlindoro:

So I'd appreciate if people didn't go svn rm'ing it on me :P

[19:15:59]

devinheitmueller:

stuartm: yeah, that's definitely a good question as to how XMBC works, since they would have had the same challenges.

[19:17:00]

iamlindoro:

granted, I've not started working on setup issues yet, but still

[19:17:34]

stuartm:

devinheitmueller: having the nodes created with read perms would be fantastic, it removes the significant security concerns with blindly chmod'ing things in /dev/input and would work out of the box

[19:17:53]

devinheitmueller:

stuartm: I've pinged Mauro about it over in #linuxtv.

[19:19:00]

stuartm:

devinheitmueller: it could also be that native input support in XBMC is just misunderstood, I've been told that they support it but maybe that's not the case, perhaps they merely support the lirc native driver or they only support keycodes upto that 255 limit

[19:19:46]

devinheitmueller:

stuartm: I'm pretty sure j-rod said it "just works".

[19:24:15]

stuartm:

pinging Jarod in #mythtv

[19:25:58]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: ok, nice to know that someone is working on it, any advice on setting it up? The wiki is useless, I just need to insert some metadata in there so I can knock out the metallurgy theme, I don't need the games to actually play

[19:26:30]

stuartm:

I used to have someone's game table dump for testing, but I appear to have deleted it

[19:26:54]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: Create a player for any system, give it an extension for games (.tst or whatever), point it at a dir, fill that dir with some touch'ed files with that extension, scan

[19:27:16]

iamlindoro:

and just make the application path /bin/true or something

[19:30:25]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: heh, that terminology is not confusing at all – I did create a player, called 'GBee', the other fields were a little confusing because they had nothing to do with my player profile, but hey it said 'Game Players' so it must be for configuring user profiles right?

[19:30:39]

iamlindoro:

hah

[19:30:43]

iamlindoro:

yeah, I see your point

[19:31:06]

iamlindoro:

I was planning to just dump it all and build something analogous to "file types" in mythvideo to set up players, and scan from inside the interface

[19:31:07]

iamlindoro:

s

[19:31:10]

iamlindoro:

o that we have plugin symmetry

[19:31:17]

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[19:34:47]

stuartm:

some support for native games would be a good idea, then justinh's Sudoku plugin would have a home :)

[19:36:31]

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[19:40:12]

skd5aner:

is that a joke or did he really write a sudoku plugin?

[19:42:08]

skd5aner:

joke or not, I suppose that'd be an example of a really easy game which could be played simply with a remote

[19:42:19]

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[19:42:30]

skd5aner:

up, down, left, right, numbers, enter

[19:43:14]

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[19:44:21]

stuartm:

skd5aner: he's not actually written one, although we've joked about writing one and at times he's expressed the desire to write it as self-teaching exercise

[19:45:11]

skd5aner:

yea, would be a good "demo" plugin :)

[19:45:14]

stuartm:

skd5aner: there are probably several games would could easily be a) played with remote b) achieved with mythui c) simple to write

[19:46:47]

stuartm:

chess (with third party engine), sudoku, memory games, quiz games, battleships – well I could list dozens of games based on grids, lets assume they are all possible

[19:46:53]

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[19:48:03]

skd5aner:

Othello, etc... yea

[19:48:37]

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[19:58:22]

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[20:00:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

battleship. ;-)

[20:00:48]

J-e-f-f-A:

(woops, stuartm already mentioned that! ;-) )

[20:00:55]

ThisOtherGuy:

hey all – does all transcoding create a .nuv file?

[20:01:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

!seen all

[20:01:05]

MythLogBot:

all has not been seen here

[20:01:21]

skd5aner:

you know, it'd be pretty hard to play 2 player battleship on a single TV, but would be cool if you could do multiplayer over 2 frontends ;) heh

[20:01:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

skd5aner: exactly... ;-)

[20:01:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

ThisOtherGuy: Probably depends on the type of transcode...

[20:02:26]

ThisOtherGuy:

I tried mjpeg and mpeg and the both produced .nuv files – is there another way I'm missing?

[20:04:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

ThisOtherGuy: I dunno, as I have not used it in a long while, but the wiki page seems to have some good info: http://mythtv.org/wiki/mythtranscode

[20:06:06]

ThisOtherGuy:

k – thanks

[20:16:42]

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[20:20:50]

justinh:

skd5aner: oh yeah still wanna write a sudoku game for mythui... I predict I'll never have enough time to do much on my 'wanna do' list

[20:21:59]

sphery:

* Not recommended for people with DLPs or projectors

[20:22:06]

sphery:

(bulb cost)

[20:23:14]

justinh:

mind, if I start hiding in the lab at work again maybe I *will* have the time ;-)

[20:23:41]

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[20:30:03]

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[20:34:18]

skd5aner:

hey, anyone want to provide some feedback? I'm trying to make the release note more "readable" and easier for folks to find info related to the changes for that release...

[20:35:01]

skd5aner:

I'm going to try and categorize the changes into "bug fixes", "new features", and "Changes/Improvements/Other" instead of flat list per each component...

[20:35:11]

skd5aner:

check here for an example of what I was thinking – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.24#mythfrontend

[20:35:29]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: I think that looks good and is well worth the effort

[20:35:31]

skd5aner:

I think it's much cleaner, and easier to compartmentalize the list

[20:36:16]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: thanks, I figured I'd make sure others liked it before I went through the rest of the list

[20:37:01]

skd5aner:

my objective is to cleanup (and re-org) the list prior to RC1, because I'm assuming that the link will end up in one of the announcements somewhere and would like to have it polished beforehand

[20:37:08]

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[20:37:27]

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[20:38:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

skd5aner, I agree, looks good.

[20:38:24]

sphery:

+1

[20:38:31]

skd5aner:

Captain_Murdoch, sphery: thanks guys

[20:38:33]

pak0:

good night people

[20:38:34]

sphery:

the "random sort" of before isn't too useful

[20:38:59]

pak0:

is there any solution for mythbrowser under webs with flash? any time i open each web with flash mythbrowser crashes

[20:39:02]

skd5aner:

it became a bit unwieldy :)

[20:39:12]

sphery:

pak0: did you try Flash 10.2 alpha?

[20:39:26]

** sphery is curious if Adobe fixed the bug or still relies on the browser to fix the bug **

[20:39:41]

kormoc:

is that the native 64 bit flash?

[20:40:05]

skd5aner:

I guess the only thing I was still debating is if I should make the top level categories "bug fixes", "new features", and "changes/improvements/other", then sort the compenents under those or vice versa

[20:40:06]

pak0:

i can try it

[20:40:10]

sphery:

kormoc: the bug is in all Flash 10.1 (including 64-bit alpha versions before they dropped 64-bit support)

[20:40:21]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: I think that as you have it is nicer

[20:40:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

only other thing I'd suggest, which might not be easy or possible, would be to allow expanding/collapsing the sub lists by clicking the header. would require javascript though. :|

[20:40:27]

sphery:

kormoc: the 10.2 alpha is the one that re-introduces 64-bit support

[20:40:27]

kormoc:

sphery, they re-added support just the other day

[20:40:30]

sphery:

yeah

[20:40:31]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: ie top level components, and then the breakout of change types

[20:40:33]

kormoc:

yeah

[20:40:39]

Captain_Murdoch:

skd5aner, component -> subsection is better I think rather than the other way around.

[20:41:22]

sphery:

kormoc: and they solved the 5% problem of decoding low-resolution, low-bitrate video (for Crystal HD users), leaving only the 95% problem of broken software scaling :)\

[20:41:23]

skd5aner:

good deal! Of course, eitehr way I was also intending of keeping the "Major Changes" and "New Features" up top to sum up the big rocks

[20:41:25]

pak0:

but my system is 32 bits

[20:41:47]

sphery:

pak0: yeah, the 10.2 alpha is availble for both

[20:41:55]

kormoc:

youch

[20:41:56]

sphery:

pak0: 10.1 has the bug on all versions

[20:42:01]

sphery:

all platforms

[20:42:05]

sphery:

so try 10.2

[20:42:11]

pak0:

ok

[20:42:15]

skd5aner:

Captain_Murdoch: I'll take a look at that maybe for the next go (expandable/collapsable lists) – I had thought about it several months ago and just didn't get around to doing it

[20:42:15]

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[20:42:21]

sphery:

pak0: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html or find it through your packager

[20:42:24]

pak0:

i would search for a recommended guide

[20:42:32]

skd5aner:

thanks for the feedback folks, off to edit some more

[20:42:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

skd5aner, thanks for the work on that.

[20:42:50]

sphery:

pak0: if that doesn't work, your only solution for MythBrowser is to use Flash 10.0

[20:43:10]

skd5aner:

np, happy to help

[20:43:15]

sphery:

pak0: and if you use Flash 10.0, some sites (Hulu) will prevent you from accessing their site

[20:43:35]

sphery:

as it's obviously bad for Hulu to condone usage of a known-broken Flahs

[20:43:42]

pak0:

aham

[20:43:43]

sphery:

and better for them to lock some of their customers out

[20:43:52]

sphery:

after all, the customer is /never/ right

[20:44:04]

** sphery hates Flash **

[20:46:57]

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[20:47:08]

wagnerrp:

why cater to the customer, when you can just decide what they want for them

[20:47:43]

skd5aner:

that reminds me...

[20:48:00]

skd5aner:

TWC STILL isn't sending CBS over QAM – it's been 3 weeks

[20:48:03]

skd5aner:

I need to call

[20:48:09]

sphery:

OK, and I should fess up that there's one extra possibility, but it's definitely not supported. You can rip the webkit out of Qt and use the new Qt-WebKit 2 (the modular webkit) in place. Figuring out how to do so (and without breaking your packages, system, apps) is left as an exercise for the reader.

[20:48:36]

sphery:

don't know if Qt4.7 will have an updated Qt-Webkit in it, but since we don't support Qt4.7, yet

[20:48:43]

wagnerrp:

sphery: to be fair, we do the same thing...

[20:48:51]

wagnerrp:

... except when we do it, were right :)

[20:48:57]

sphery:

now I should probably go work on the 4.7 support

[20:49:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, I'm just saying that all versions of Qt that we support do not support the modular webkit

[20:49:55]

sphery:

and only the new webkit has the fix for Flash's broken API usage

[20:50:05]

sphery:

s/fix/workaround/

[20:51:01]

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[20:52:47]

wagnerrp:

that reminds me, what are the odds of an embedded db for 0.25?

[20:53:09]

[R]:

i was looking into it... seems very complicated

[20:53:24]

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[20:53:27]

sphery:

depends on whether we're allowed to work on it and how much we're expected to work on the setup stuff

[20:54:21]

Beirdo:

bleh

[20:54:44]

wagnerrp:

im just wondering as far as #(ticket about python oursql stuff)

[20:55:02]

sphery:

looks like 4.7 does use qtwebkit 2, so when that's supported, it will have the broken-Flash workaround

[20:55:06]

Beirdo:

not enough coffee in this world

[20:55:29]

sphery:

I'd really like to work on that for 0.24

[20:55:32]

sphery:

er, 0.25

[20:56:01]

sphery:

but I don't know how much time I'll be expected to spend on other stuff

[20:56:09]

** Beirdo awaits the mythsql command **

[20:56:10]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:56:15]

sphery:

and the embedded db stuff will require a lot of time/focus

[20:56:26]

Beirdo:

for sure

[20:56:47]

Beirdo:

and if we do innodb... will require some thinking on the innodb parameter tuning

[20:57:04]

sphery:

and it will need to become usable quickly in a separate branch so that it doesn't require constant reworking of all the code

[20:57:13]

sphery:

i.e. so it can be merged back in quickly

[20:57:15]

Beirdo:

yeah

[20:57:23]

Beirdo:

well, I don't mind a slow merge

[20:57:30]

Beirdo:

i.e. not immediate

[20:57:44]

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[20:57:47]

sphery:

well, the longer it's in a branch, the longer we have 2 separate development projects going

[20:57:55]

kormoc:

why branch?

[20:57:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, which is fine

[20:57:58]

sphery:

i.e. it touches everything in MythTV, so ...

[20:58:01]

kormoc:

code it to support both internal and external

[20:58:10]

Beirdo:

gah

[20:58:14]

sphery:

because it will rip out all the SQL support

[20:58:16]

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[20:58:18]

sphery:

and replace it with proper support

[20:58:26]

** kormoc raises an eyebrow **

[20:58:34]

kormoc:

embedded SQL still means using SQL statements

[20:58:37]

sphery:

or we could keep both and have sql /and/ other communications at every place

[20:58:49]

sphery:

only the one process that's hosting the embedded db can use sql

[20:58:53]

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[20:58:56]

sphery:

and making it a sql proxy adds nothing

[20:59:15]

Beirdo:

it will become the replacement mysqld kinda

[20:59:19]

kormoc:

other then a easy transition period

[20:59:26]

sphery:

ok, it makes it so users don't have to install/configure mysql

[20:59:52]

sphery:

but what I'm saying is that every location in MythTV that touches the DB will be affected--which is basically everything

[21:00:14]

sphery:

so we need to commit to one approach or the other

[21:00:18]

** kormoc shrugs **

[21:00:20]

sphery:

and then just use it

[21:00:24]

kormoc:

I didn't see any reason it had to

[21:00:46]

Beirdo:

we could do it in two steps

[21:01:04]

Beirdo:

first step: abstract to an API that can be used both ways

[21:01:05]

sphery:

well, if we do a sql proxy to start with, I have a feeling users will expect it to stay

[21:01:16]

Beirdo:

second step: add the new way (whatever it might be)

[21:01:21]

sphery:

then we lose the ability to actually encapsulate all data access

[21:01:27]

Beirdo:

I dunno

[21:01:43]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[21:01:59]

kormoc:

I'd guess the mythweb move to the BE would be before that too then

[21:02:17]

Beirdo:

ugh

[21:02:33]

** Beirdo is not a plan of re-inventing php **

[21:02:38]

Beirdo:

fan rather

[21:02:43]

Beirdo:

OK, I'm losin it

[21:02:46]

sphery:

agreed

[21:03:25]

stuartm:

and no-one is proposing re-inventing php, c++ predates it ;)

[21:03:50]

sphery:

anyway, my point is that I don't think it would be significantly easier to port the SQL usage to protobuf (or whatever) incrementally versus just doing it all at once

[21:04:04]

stuartm:

but I'm flogging a dead horse, I'm the only one in favour of moving mythweb into the backend

[21:04:09]

sphery:

and doing it all at once makes it easier to identify commonalities and reduce them

[21:04:32]

sphery:

stuartm: well, it would require rewriting MythWeb from scratch

[21:04:34]

stuartm:

xris in particular would rather everyone continue to run a full webserver

[21:04:37]

Beirdo:

stuartm: I trust apache a lot more than our internal web server at this poing too

[21:04:45]

Beirdo:

point

[21:04:53]

sphery:

which could be a good thing--whether done in PHP or C++--as it usually is with any software

[21:04:54]

Beirdo:

that time I just missed the key

[21:04:59]

sphery:

(i.e. redesign with lessons learned)

[21:05:00]

stuartm:

sphery: but that's the point it wouldn't, since mythweb duplicates in full a tonne of code that already exists in libmyth*

[21:05:02]

sphery:

but it's a huge project

[21:05:08]

stuartm:

but no-one seems to get that

[21:05:21]

sphery:

true, but all the UI code would have to be reimplemented

[21:05:37]

stuartm:

sphery: and that's tiny, really

[21:05:49]

stuartm:

GOTO deadhorse

[21:05:54]

Beirdo:

stuartm: true... but if we used protobuf... mythweb could speak to the backend and get the backend to do the work a bit better, etc

[21:06:03]

sphery:

that could be--I don't know how much code is in which parts of MythWeb

[21:06:08]

[R]:

stuartm: can't php make calls into a C library?

[21:06:09]

stuartm:

GOTO deadhorse; END

[21:06:16]

kormoc:

[R], yes, we can

[21:06:29]

kormoc:

[R], we can even embed php into the backend and not even run apache

[21:06:47]

[R]:

kormoc: that's what she said

[21:06:53]

kormoc:

[R], so yes, we could write it so that php uses libmyth* and runs in the backend process

[21:07:00]

sphery:

but, if we can get a nice protocol that allows MythWeb to use the protocol for all data access /and/ interpretation, it would likely be able to use a lot of that backend code, even if it's not C++/Qt :)

[21:07:22]

stuartm:

I've never going to agree with anyone on this subject, I'd be better off giving over a week to the job and just writing the damn thing

[21:07:24]

sphery:

i.e. get rid of the direct DB access and the interpreting programinfo and ...

[21:07:55]

[R]:

i need to write my upnp patch :(

[21:09:07]

[R]:

what's the consensus on 64bit backend... does the 64bit-ness help with commflag?

[21:09:20]

wagnerrp:

not at all

[21:09:23]

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[21:09:27]

wagnerrp:

why would it?

[21:09:30]

[R]:

i don't know

[21:09:33]

[R]:

isn't there math in commflag?

[21:09:46]

sphery:

if anything registers might, but not so significantly that I'd be worried about it

[21:09:55]

wagnerrp:

sure, but probably not much 64-bit integer math

[21:10:05]

kormoc:

the video decoding might get a boost

[21:10:08]

kormoc:

but everything else is the same

[21:10:11]

stuartm:

[R]: is your hardware 32 or 64bit?

[21:10:12]

wagnerrp:

the only thing that 64-bit helps for most programs is the extra registers

[21:10:17]

[R]:

stuartm: 64bit

[21:11:10]

stuartm:

then why run 32bit? There may not be any significant advantages, but there are definitely no disadvantages

[21:11:22]

sphery:

so trying to decide between 64-bit and possibly giving up the 32-bit-only Internet poison (Flash (stable), Skype, etc.)?

[21:11:37]

[R]:

its a backend only

[21:11:38]

sphery:

versus just going 32-bit and feeding the addiction?

[21:11:48]

[R]:

but i was worried about my diskless frontends and i like to do chroot and stuff from it

[21:11:52]

sphery:

oh, then 64-bit is my recommendation

[21:12:14]

[R]:

well i'm probably gonna reinstall when 0.24 comes out... so i may switch to 64

[21:12:23]

stuartm:

bah, 64-bit version of flash is as stable as the released version (which ain't that stable, but still)

[21:12:34]

sphery:

stuartm: heh, probably true :)

[21:12:35]

npm:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/s . . . feed_IWK_All

[21:12:46]

npm:

Intel Confirms HDCP Encryption Key Leak

[21:12:50]

npm:

oops

[21:12:58]

[R]:

big deal

[21:13:10]

[R]:

i love the articles that claim you can decrypt bluray because of it

[21:14:12]

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[21:14:45]

npm:

doesn't it mean i could copy the signal on the hdmi port and decrypt it?

[21:15:02]

[R]:

you want to copy a decompressed hd digital signal?

[21:15:13]

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[21:15:13]

npm:

no

[21:15:21]

[R]:

then what does it matter if you can

[21:15:33]

npm:

i just found it funny

[21:15:46]

[R]:

what's funny about it?

[21:15:48]

npm:

that all that "security" isn't

[21:16:05]

[R]:

drm doesn't work

[21:16:08]

[R]:

everyone knows that

[21:16:32]

npm:

maybe i have a strange sense of humor :-)

[21:16:33]

sphery:

npm: yeah, and when the articles say it allows decrypting BluRay to get a bit-perfect copy, they're totally wrong (as you'd be re-compressing to a lossy format after decrompressing from a lossy format)

[21:16:42]

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[21:17:05]

[R]:

sphery: well you don't HAVE to recompess it...

[21:17:25]

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[21:17:50]

sphery:

[R]: heh... well, I only have 10.5TB (and 2TB to be installed)

[21:18:17]

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[21:18:31]

[R]:

but i dont understand why everyones making a big deal out of it

[21:18:39]

[R]:

you can already make a bit perfect copy of bluray

[21:18:48]

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[21:19:13]

wagnerrp:

because everyone is clueless

[21:19:19]

stuartm:

article I read was placing the emphasis on the other uses of HDCP, e.g. cable/satellite STBs

[21:19:36]

[R]:

i've yet to see any article that wasn't written by a clueless person

[21:19:41]

[R]:

which mythical article are you talking about

[21:19:49]

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[21:19:54]

stuartm:

but even then, it's just so impractical that it's stupid

[21:20:16]

[R]:

the most i see happening is hdfury clones

[21:20:18]

stuartm:

and the article said as much

[21:20:32]

[R]:

what else can you do?

[21:20:32]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/451804#451804 is a good breakdown

[21:20:41]

sphery:

from our own iamlindoro

[21:20:44]

wagnerrp:

its only impractical because there is nothing like the HDPVR for HDMI

[21:20:56]

stuartm:

[R]: maybe The Register, or BBC, only two 'news' sites I read with any regularity

[21:21:06]

sphery:

and you might as well just use HD-PVR and Component

[21:21:17]

iamlindoro:

And even when there *is* something like the HD-PVR for HDMI, it will toss the sole touted advantage ("bit perfect copies") out the window

[21:21:18]

wagnerrp:

so youre stuck with realtime capture and storage of raw (or maybe mpng/huffman) video

[21:21:25]

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[21:21:28]

sphery:

all it means is that now there's less reason for the companies to worry about shutting the "analog hole"

[21:21:38]

wagnerrp:

the only HDMI capture devices are specifically for professional usage

[21:21:43]

wagnerrp:

people who /want/ the raw video

[21:21:46]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: it's apparently impractical because even with the master key no CPU could keep up, you'd need dedicated hardware

[21:22:00]

wagnerrp:

rather than something passed through some hardware encoder

[21:22:02]

[R]:

i thought there was some hdmi capture card for consumer pcs

[21:22:05]

Beirdo:

whehe

[21:22:22]

Beirdo:

no CPU can keep up, but the tiny CPU in the TVs can

[21:22:25]

[R]:

the blackmagick intensity

[21:22:26]

Beirdo:

that's humorous

[21:22:45]

iamlindoro:

The CPU in TVs doesn't need to recompress it

[21:22:46]

stuartm:

Beirdo: no general purpose cpu ;)

[21:23:00]

Beirdo:

yeah, there is that :)

[21:23:15]

wagnerrp:

[R]: they do produce an HDMI capture card

[21:23:20]

wagnerrp:

but it is by no means for consumers

[21:23:23]

[R]:

oh

[21:23:28]

stuartm:

chips designed specifically to decode hdmi of course exist in every TV

[21:23:29]

Beirdo:

that is why we have things like HDPVRs.

[21:23:30]

sphery:

note, though, that the video processor in my TV can't keep up with high-bitrate ATSC

[21:23:41]

Beirdo:

but meh :)

[21:23:43]

wagnerrp:

for the mere fact that a normal consumer PC would have no chance to store 1080p60 on the fly

[21:23:45]

sphery:

ATI Xilleon (prior to its purchase by Broadcom)

[21:23:49]

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[21:37:38]

iamlindoro:

Looks like Comcast is running a free HBO weekend if anyone in Comcast ClearQAM territory desires a chance to see the premiere of Boardwalk Empire

[21:37:54]

iamlindoro:

(ie, should be available somewhere in ClearQAM)

[21:38:41]

[R]:

Cox has an hbo preview also

[21:38:54]

xand:

no idea what that is but think I'm glad I won't be watching it.

[21:39:26]

iamlindoro:

xand: well that makes a lot of sense

[21:42:11]

high-rez:

Is that a good show ?

[21:42:46]

skd5aner:

brutal, just got off an hour long call with TWC's tech support

[21:42:48]

iamlindoro:

Tough to know yet, but big name actors and budget, premiere written and direted by Scorsese

[21:43:11]

iamlindoro:

and high scores on metacritic http://www.metacritic.com/tv/boardwalk-empire/season-1

[21:43:20]

skd5aner:

trying to explain to them what QAM is and that there *is* a difference between their digital SD broadcast and their digital HD broadcast and their analog SD broadcast

[21:43:44]

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[21:44:09]

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[21:44:13]

skd5aner:

They were trying to say channel "3" was the HD channel – "no, that's the anlog channel"

[21:44:54]

skd5aner:

"well, we mean 3.3 – you need to make sure your TV stretches the picture properly for it to be HD" – WTF?! "no, that's the digital broadcast of the standard def"

[21:44:56]

** high-rez searches mythweb **

[21:45:36]

[R]:

skd5aner: its only HD if your tv stretches it? wtf

[21:45:59]

skd5aner:

then I say "80.7 appears to now be the CBS HD broadcast freq, but you aren't sending any channel info along and it's burried in with a bunch of other channels my tunner can see but nothing is broadcast over them or they are locked down"

[21:46:32]

high-rez:

Should I record the premiere night preshow ?

[21:46:38]

[R]:

cox hasn't touched the qam channels in forever

[21:46:42]

[R]:

and they actually just added one

[21:46:59]

skd5aner:

it used to be 225.something, and they changed it, now it's the only broadcast network over QAM that a) doesn't have channel details passed when hooked up to any of my QAM TVs, and b) isn't where all the other channels are

[21:47:11]

skd5aner:

and the lady is like "well, I'll report to them that 3.3 isn't HD for you"

[21:47:20]

skd5aner:

headpalm

[21:47:44]

skd5aner:

I couldn't convience her that 3.3 is exactly what it's supposed to be

[21:48:35]

skd5aner:

and that for whatever reason they aren't broadcasting CBS on the same chan/freq as before and that's not a big deal except it was pure luck that I finally stumbled on it with the other 100+ channels my TV finds but is just black content

[21:48:48]

wagnerrp:

could be worse, i was on the phone with a cable tech a couple weeks ago

[21:48:58]

skd5aner:

same with Myth, now I have to rescan just to get CBS working again – at least I know where to look for it :P

[21:49:07]

wagnerrp:

who was trying to claim that when we went to DTAs and fully digital

[21:49:08]

skd5aner:

I wish I could update 1 channel

[21:49:19]

wagnerrp:

we would no longer be able to receive the local broadcasts in the clear

[21:49:24]

high-rez:

Is there away to group channels? Instead of "record at any time on this channel" "record at any time on this channel group" ?

[21:49:39]

high-rez:

E.g. there's a bunch of different HBOs I'd like to record it on

[21:49:50]

iamlindoro:

high-rez: custom recording rules

[21:50:25]

skd5aner:

high-rez: like iamlindoro said, you can edit the custom rule to include (or exclude) specific channels

[21:50:38]

skd5aner:

there's even a demo in there, I think for ESPN

[21:50:57]

high-rez:

Hmm

[21:51:28]

high-rez:

Can they be configured from inside of mythweb? :)

[21:51:29]

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[21:51:47]

[R]:

high-rez: why not just record on any channel?

[21:52:14]

kormoc:

high-rez, if they share the same channel callsign, I think they're grouped

[21:52:23]

high-rez:

R: I have some channels that are both HD and non HD.

[21:52:33]

[R]:

you can set only hd i thought

[21:52:44]

sqiush102:

for a hdhomerun and timewarner clearqam, what is the best way to scan for channels? can i do cable? or cable xxx?

[21:52:56]

[R]:

squidly: cable xxx?

[21:53:15]

sqiush102:

cable hrc/ir something high

[21:53:26]

[R]:

squidly: the default is usually what you want

[21:53:30]

[R]:

regular cable

[21:53:30]

sqiush102:

or will cable do everything

[21:53:41]

skd5aner:

high-rez: lots of ways to get around that

[21:53:44]

sqiush102:

ok thanks

[21:55:56]

sqiush102:

once i have it, what is the easiest way to map the xmltvid's. is it using zap2it?

[21:56:39]

sqiush102:

and if i remember correctly, i have to edit all of them before running mythfilldatabase

[21:58:59]

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[22:11:42]

wh0dat:

my 'watch recordings' menu is all of a sudden extremely slow tonight... 1–2 minutes before it even goes to the next recorded program when i hit the down arrow.. what could cause this?

[22:13:20]

sphery:

wh0dat: broken caching--perhaps due to a broken $HOME/.mythtv

[22:15:37]

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[22:16:54]

wh0dat:

sphery: hmm, so delete the cache folders there?

[22:17:04]

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[22:17:52]

sphery:

wh0dat: worth a try--and restart frontend and verify they're getting re-created and populated

[22:17:59]

sphery:

and that permissions are correct

[22:18:11]

sphery:

and that it's a fast (local) drive

[22:18:21]

sphery:

but if it just happened, I'm guessing it's a permissions thing

[22:18:44]

sphery:

or you're using OpenGL theme painter and you broke your video/OpenGL drivers

[22:18:49]

wh0dat:

yeah it just happened on an existing system

[22:19:32]

wh0dat:

all other menu's are fine when i go into watch recordings menu everything is extremely slow. a minute before any keystroke registers.

[22:21:21]

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[22:22:10]

wh0dat:

oh wait i bet its this samba drive i mounted a couple days ago

[22:22:20]

wh0dat:

because df command is hanging too

[22:22:35]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that could do it

[22:23:31]

wh0dat:

mythtv doesnt even use that share I mounted though

[22:23:56]

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[22:24:19]

sphery:

but if it's causing the whole I/O subsystem to hang...

[22:24:37]

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[22:25:03]

wh0dat:

unmount error 16 = Device or resource busy

[22:25:19]

wh0dat:

lol guess I have to reboot

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[22:42:58]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, there's absolutely no benefit to enabling cpu freq scaling when you run boinc, right?

[22:43:19]

sphery:

only benefit would be if, for some reason, there's no boinc work to do, it would then scale for that period

[22:43:54]

wagnerrp:

pretty much, all it would do is (slightly) slow things down

[22:44:13]

wagnerrp:

as there would be an extra process running a short loop to poll usage for scaling

[22:46:09]

sphery:

Yeah, I'm starting to get a majority of K8+ systems (where freq scaling actually has some power-usage benefits), and am helping a friend set up scaling on his system (that sits idle most of the time), and was trying to decide whether to actually set mine to ondemand, also

[22:47:02]

sphery:

On K7 and below systems (and P4 and below), it was never worthwhile since it didn't really equate to power savings

[22:47:47]

sphery:

(OK, maybe some of the newest K7's did a bit--some of the Sempron ones--but for the most part, it was still minimal compared to K8+ and Core+

[22:48:27]

sphery:

that said, I think I only have one transitional Sempron and it spends 99% of its time shut down.

[22:50:21]

sid3windr:

hehe

[22:50:36]

sid3windr:

I recently abused such a tool because someone was looking for a 1.6GHz Pentium M

[22:50:45]

sid3windr:

so I clocked a Core2 Duo down to that and kept it there

[22:50:51]

sphery:

heh

[22:50:52]

sid3windr:

not 100% the same obviously

[22:51:03]

sid3windr:

but it was the closest I had to replication customer's cpu performance ;>

[22:51:06]

sphery:

the freq was that important to him?

[22:51:12]

sphery:

ahhh

[22:51:15]

sid3windr:

yeah

[22:51:22]

sid3windr:

I work for a softwre development company

[22:51:31]

sid3windr:

and apparently there were some issues ;)

[22:51:50]

sphery:

wonder if the core2 efficiency was noticeably better than P-M efficiency (such that a lower clock would have been more appropriate)

[22:51:59]

sid3windr:

I regularly get questions like "i need this cpu <insert 4 year old model> with this video card <insert obscure quadro card not sold in 5 years>"

[22:52:12]

sid3windr:

I think it'll be better

[22:52:12]

sphery:

guess, though, if you were able to reproduce the issues that way, it didn't matter

[22:52:17]

sid3windr:

but it was the lowest step the cpu would do

[22:52:24]

sphery:

ah, yeah

[22:52:27]

sid3windr:

I'm not sure if they reproduced it – I did my best ;)

[22:52:46]

** sid3windr sysadmin so not involved in the software development part **

[22:52:59]

sid3windr:

the guy was happy with my inventivity.. uhh

[22:53:03]

sid3windr:

what's that word in english? :p

[22:53:07]

sphery:

yeah, main reason I'm setting it up is because this guy wants to save on power, but wants to keep the system running all the time

[22:53:09]

sid3windr:

inventiveness? nope.

[22:53:26]

wagnerrp:

sphery: on the old K7s, the desktop chips didnt even support any form of dynamic scaling

[22:53:30]

sid3windr:

yea my home servers spend most of their time at 1200 instead of 2000

[22:53:31]

sphery:

most distros enable it by default, but I have a highly-customized system

[22:54:05]

sid3windr:

I remember P4 supporting "speedstep" as in.. slow it down but not save a watt. :P

[22:54:08]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, and the newer ones that had support didn't affect much

[22:54:17]

sid3windr:

throttling down does get the temps down though

[22:54:18]

sphery:

sid3windr: yeah, that's pretty much how the K7 ones did

[22:54:19]

sid3windr:

:)

[22:54:45]

wagnerrp:

no, i mean no K7s did

[22:54:54]

wagnerrp:

AMD didnt add that until the K8 (AMD64)

[22:54:56]

sphery:

I was surprised to find that newer Athlon IIs allow setting a different governor on each core of a CPU

[22:55:05]

sphery:

can't think of any reason to ever do that, though

[22:56:23]

sid3windr:

anyone have 3d glasses? :) I wonder if http://blolpics.com/33295 "works"

[22:56:34]

sid3windr:

I have some but I think the glasses have the wrong colour.. :p

[22:56:43]

sid3windr:

just found that pic on the interwebs :)

[22:58:08]

sphery:

wagnerrp: oh, I thought some did

[22:58:11]

sphery:

been too long

[22:58:17]

sphery:

must have been thinking of my laptop

[22:59:30]

wagnerrp:

i had a barton, last of the line, and it didnt do anything of the sort

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[23:10:05]

kenni:

knightr, "he just needs to practice a little"

[23:10:53]

knightr:

kenni: Geez, the translator I used (Google in this case I think) did a poor job...

[23:11:28]

kenni:

really, Google translator got it 100% correct here

[23:11:40]

knightr:

kenni: translated phrase in English made sense, the one in French not that much

[23:12:05]

knightr:

kenni: I use a firefox plugin which calls it so maybe it passed incorrect arguments...

[23:12:10]

kenni:

ahh, I only tried the english one

[23:13:04]

knightr:

kenni: It thought it was Norwegian, Danish & Norwegian languages share the same roots?

[23:14:20]

kenni:

yep, they're very similar – we can understand each other both in speech and in writing

[23:14:58]

kenni:

swedish also the same, a bit harder, but still understandable

[23:15:48]

knightr:

kenni: yikes, they all share a common "ancestor" (in lack of a better word to describe what they are all derived from...)

[23:16:33]

knightr:

kenni: so I should leave the Norwegian translations to you I guess...

[23:18:42]

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[23:20:24]

knightr:

kenni, I wanted the person we talked to earlier to confirm whether i could change the source strings like you did in a previous ticket but I did not get is ok...

[23:20:33]

knightr:

oops, his not is...

[23:21:32]

kenni:

knightr, no, feel free to take them, I'll not be able to spot errors as I don't know what's wrong and what's correct – I can just understand the words

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[23:22:52]

knightr:

kenni: ok... Like I said earlier you will have an advantage over me because for this because you are closer to most of the translator's timezone...

[23:23:18]

knightr:

oops, remove the first because...

[23:23:29]

kenni:

if it's a clean stringchangem and you're sure about it, then just do it...but I think we should wait with these to 0.25, a spelling error doesn't really matter – it will be correct in the translated version anyway. I have a single spelling fix as well, but I'm waiting until 0.25

[23:24:40]

kenni:

if we can avoid changing strings in the current string freeze, then I think we should do it. Making new strings translatable is another thing, IMO

[23:24:54]

kenni:

I don't know if we should fix these or not for 0.24

[23:26:12]

knightr:

kenni, from a previous email you know I'm not confortable with this...

[23:26:23]

kenni:

:)

[23:27:11]

knightr:

kenni: not that I don't know how to do it, I have over 15 years of professional programming experience (even more if you count unprofessionnal...)

[23:27:14]

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[23:27:38]

knightr:

kenni: ok, I guess I'll go with the temporary fixes...

[23:28:22]

knightr:

kenni, just wondering, who will submitted your translation, you or your colleague?

[23:28:34]

kenni:

I think we at least should avoid changing strings if we can fix them for 0.24 in the translation

[23:28:41]

kenni:

I'll do it in ~20 minutes

[23:29:33]

knightr:

kenni, ever thinked about letting the other team members do it? I did it this time but I am not sure what's fair for them...

[23:30:55]

knightr:

(I havent submitted the translation (have to take care of a small problem with the pc on which it is on) but I created the ticket I'll use when committing...)

[23:31:40]

kenni:

for 0.24 I did the translation on my own, my friend didn't have much time, so there wasn't any other options :) But it's fine, I had a bunch of corrections written down

[23:31:56]

kenni:

and he didn't have any

[23:32:48]

knightr:

kenni, but for the next one, if he actually works on it, what will you do?

[23:33:55]

kenni:

I don't quite follow you? He'll send his part it my way and I'll merge it with my part and commit it?

[23:34:13]

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[23:35:17]

Gibby:

so i am trying to program my FE, i run irw press the up button and nothing outputs on irw, however it does move up 1 on the FE

[23:35:24]

knightr:

kenni, look like who creates the ticket *might* be important in my team so I'm just wondering what others (like you since you are in a pretty similar situation) would do...

[23:35:50]

kenni:

lol, my friend couldn't care less

[23:36:44]

knightr:

kenni, you are either lucky or I am misperceiving the situation in my team...

[23:36:47]

[R]:

Gibby: sounds like your remote uses devinput and not lirc

[23:37:15]

kenni:

knightr, :)

[23:37:16]

Gibby:

[R], ahh ok, i am using a usb IR receiver, anyway to make it use lirc?

[23:37:26]

[R]:

you can make lirc use devinput

[23:39:05]

[R]:

but it shows up as a keyboard

[23:39:15]

[R]:

so you can use any of the "make a key press do action X" programs

[23:39:32]

Gibby:

[R] i was just going to say lsusb -v, show it has a mouse and usb device

[23:39:49]

[R]:

what does lsusb have to do with anything

[23:40:45]

pak0:

just updated my flash to 10.2 and mythbrowser still crashes

[23:41:03]

Gibby:

[R] shows the usb IR receiver data

[23:41:27]

[R]:

huh?

[23:41:34]

[R]:

all lsusb shows is that a usb device is connected

[23:42:37]

Gibby:

not -v

[23:43:40]

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[23:50:46]

knightr:

kenni, ssorry will be back, have something to take care of...

[23:51:16]

kenni:

knightr, I'll go to bed soon ;)

[23:51:37]

knightr:

kenni, ok, if we don't talk to each other toniht, good night...

[23:52:06]

kenni:

thanks, you too

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