MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (190):

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Tuesday, September 14th, 2010, 00:05 UTC
[00:05:01] Beirdo: wagnerrp: I think I'm somewhat sold on using Intel this time around
[00:05:14] Beirdo: Lynnfield FTW, it seems
[00:05:59] sphery: Sandy Brdige ftw (I hope)
[00:06:06] sphery: or at least Bulldozer :)
[00:06:14] Beirdo: total performance of the Lynnfield Quad cores seems to just about line up with the PhenomII X6
[00:06:24] high-rez: care bears ftw!
[00:06:33] high-rez: erm, uhm, wait wrong audience.
[00:06:53] Beirdo: which means that each of those cores is more powerful, and as commflag is essentially single-core...
[00:07:12] wagnerrp: apparently this is a bootleg Star Wars EP1 dvd case... http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/image . . . 6b7340_b.jpg
[00:07:14] Beirdo: I think I'll be better off with the quad Intel
[00:07:47] sphery: wagnerrp: perform distinctive, indeed
[00:07:49] Beirdo: sphery/wagnerrp: does that seem like a reasonable analysis?
[00:07:53] sphery: classic mac movies
[00:09:04] sphery: Beirdo: yeah, if you want performance, the Intel Core i* is probably better than AMD
[00:09:35] Beirdo: if our stuff was more multi-threaded, I think the AMD X6 would be a winner
[00:09:38] Beirdo: but...
[00:09:46] wagnerrp: i dont even have a comment for this one... http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/image . . . 45354a_z.jpg
[00:09:49] Beirdo: and price-wise it's still a bit cheaper
[00:10:01] Beirdo: but, I want ooomph!
[00:10:08] achew22 (achew22!~achew22@c-71-56-224-223.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[00:10:19] sphery: wagnerrp: heh
[00:10:35] sphery: and $10 for that
[00:10:50] Beirdo: I think I'm gravitating towards the i7–860
[00:10:53] sphery: only thing worse than cheapskates stealing movies is people stealing movies and selling them
[00:11:24] sphery: Beirdo: yeah, i7 is probably the way to go for raw performance
[00:11:37] Beirdo: Linux will see it as 8 "cores"
[00:12:04] Beirdo: it's smart enough to know the difference between cores and HT, but in the end they get listed together
[00:12:15] Wicked (Wicked!~zero@unaffiliated/blazed) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[00:12:21] sphery: for me, commflagging can take >2x real time and it still doesn't affect my viewing
[00:12:34] Beirdo: which processor?
[00:13:15] sphery: it doesn't actually take that long, usually (though did occasionally take up to 2x real time with my Athlon XP 2400+)
[00:13:16] Beirdo: well, for me, it's about 1/4x real-time (when you count in the logo detection)
[00:13:28] Beirdo: err.
[00:13:37] Beirdo: 4x real time... i.e. 4x as long
[00:13:45] sphery: but basically, I don't watch shows until weeks or months after they air--most often after the season ends
[00:13:56] sphery: so I haven't bought a system for raw performance in a long time
[00:13:59] sphery: never needed to
[00:14:06] Beirdo: yeah, my problem is that I accumulate faster than I can commflag
[00:14:17] sphery: yeah, that's when it becomes a problem
[00:14:30] Beirdo: it's right near the line now
[00:14:34] sphery: I also have parallelized flagging--since I have 2 backends :)
[00:14:36] Beirdo: and next week, I'll be well over it
[00:14:51] sphery: (though could do the same with multiple jobs on a multi-core/multi-proc system)
[00:14:58] Beirdo: that's my plan
[00:15:07] Beirdo: run up to 4 in parallel
[00:15:26] Beirdo: and that should give the system enough to do everything else (like recording)
[00:15:33] sphery: yeah, I'm doing one max--even on my new Athlon II X2 240 backend
[00:15:52] Beirdo: I could possibly even get away with 6 on the quad core with HT, but that's pushing things
[00:16:06] rossand (rossand!~aross@CPE485b390978ce-CM00222ddf42dd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
[00:16:11] Beirdo: but for sure 4 should be doable
[00:16:15] sphery: one is appropriate for the Athlon XP 2000+, though (which, strangely enough, always did commflagging faster than the Athlon XP 2400+ --perhaps because of all the rest the 2400+ did as the master backend)
[00:16:37] Beirdo: and each of those should be quite a bit faster than the PentiumD :)
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[00:16:48] Beirdo: yeah
[00:17:06] Beirdo: Athlon XP.. been a while
[00:17:13] Beirdo: had the last one die on me a bit ago
[00:17:19] Beirdo: well, the machine died
[00:17:26] Beirdo: the processor may well be fine
[00:17:42] wagnerrp: ive still got a fully functional one sitting next to me
[00:17:55] Beirdo: I haven't recycled it yet if you are interested in the processor :)
[00:17:56] Beirdo: hehe
[00:18:19] Beirdo: I think it may have been a 3200
[00:18:28] Beirdo: but I'd have to check when I'm at home
[00:18:36] Beirdo: it was my old mythbox
[00:18:42] wagnerrp: this is a 2600+, good enough
[00:20:04] Beirdo: K :)
[00:21:10] Beirdo: So I guess I should look for a MiniITX board with PCI. snicker
[00:21:37] wagnerrp: what do you need PCI for?
[00:21:49] Beirdo: don't NEED it
[00:22:03] Beirdo: but until I get an HVR-2250.. for the two PVR-250s
[00:22:03] Beirdo: hehe
[00:22:36] Beirdo: and.. of course... there are none
[00:22:43] Beirdo: tis OK.
[00:22:59] high-rez: What you need is a USB to PCI bridge.
[00:23:11] high-rez: Just cause
[00:23:14] sphery: Beirdo: heh, thanks, but my current procs have already outlasted their usefulness... I'm considering upgrading the remote backend, even though I don't need to--just to get SATA on the mobo.
[00:23:22] Beirdo: :)
[00:24:29] Beirdo: Yeah, I think that Zotac you showed me the other day is still a winner
[00:25:17] Beirdo: and I found lots of dual 2.5" in a 3.5" bay adapters :)
[00:25:26] wagnerrp: s/dual/quad/
[00:25:39] Beirdo: quad?!
[00:25:43] wagnerrp: quad
[00:25:48] Beirdo: link?
[00:25:58] wagnerrp: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993018
[00:26:10] wagnerrp: http://www.istarusa.com/rackmount_chassis/sto . . . kieSupport=1
[00:26:21] Beirdo: ahh, in a 5.25
[00:26:30] wagnerrp: oh, 3.5"... misread
[00:26:39] Beirdo: yeah :)
[00:26:50] Beirdo: internal hard drive bay :)
[00:26:57] wagnerrp: http://discountechnology.com/SuperMicro-4x-2- . . . k-Drive-Tray
[00:26:59] high-rez: They have said chassis at frys in renton
[00:27:04] wagnerrp: psshhh... who wants internall...
[00:27:22] Beirdo: although the case I'm thinking of (thanks again sphery) has 6 internal drive bays anyways
[00:27:39] wagnerrp: the lianli one?
[00:27:44] Beirdo: yup
[00:27:48] wagnerrp: the mini cube?
[00:27:52] Beirdo: yeah
[00:27:58] wagnerrp: the one i pointed out?
[00:28:12] Beirdo: it was you?
[00:28:14] Beirdo: sorry
[00:28:15] sphery: yeah, I'm thinking that wasn't me
[00:28:17] high-rez: cat fight
[00:28:18] wagnerrp: :)
[00:28:26] Beirdo: I thought it was sphery. Pardon me
[00:28:39] ** wagnerrp begins the slap fury **
[00:28:43] Beirdo: heh
[00:28:45] Beirdo: my bad
[00:28:51] high-rez: friggin insensitive
[00:29:00] Beirdo: the 1 external 5.25 would be for a burner
[00:29:01] wagnerrp: such a clod... :P
[00:29:09] Beirdo: then 6 internal bays
[00:29:22] Beirdo: which goes well with the Zotac with 6 ports
[00:29:37] Beirdo: so I wouldn't need the adapters
[00:30:01] high-rez: This a hotswap 6 3.5" drives internal enclosure ?
[00:30:05] Beirdo: but the adapter would be cool for later to put system onto 2.5" mirrored drives
[00:30:11] Beirdo: not hotswap
[00:30:18] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112266
[00:30:40] wagnerrp: but they are side-mount
[00:30:45] wagnerrp: so theyre fairly easy to remove
[00:31:03] high-rez: looks quite compact
[00:31:05] Beirdo: yeah, and the whole drive section comes out with one thumbscrew
[00:31:06] high-rez: for that many drives
[00:31:24] fugdnscerd (fugdnscerd!~shane@173-24-24-158.client.mchsi.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:31:35] Beirdo: the main issue will be finding a suitable power supply
[00:31:36] high-rez: The drive bay doesn't interfere with the motherboard at all?
[00:31:39] wagnerrp: i suppose you have to remove those cages to actually get the drives in and out?
[00:31:44] wagnerrp: would bt nice if they had some rail system instead
[00:31:56] wagnerrp: high-rez: no, it supports mini-itx only
[00:31:58] Beirdo: yeah, like Antec uses
[00:32:29] wagnerrp: Beirdo: does the upnp interface only listen on the IP address you specify? or can you use multiple NICs?
[00:32:46] high-rez: wagnerrp: Yeah, understood
[00:32:48] Beirdo: Not sure, I haven't looked into that yet
[00:32:54] Beirdo: although I plan to :)
[00:33:05] high-rez: Beirdo
[00:33:07] Beirdo: I would like that to bind to IPv6 too
[00:33:09] fugdnscerd: if im cloning frontends... I know i cant use the same image across different architecture... wondering if amd32 was the same arch as intel32
[00:33:12] high-rez: What you really need is a huge 4u rackmount server case.
[00:33:21] Beirdo: no I don't
[00:33:23] Beirdo: thanks
[00:33:32] sphery: I don't get why so many people use those at home
[00:33:48] Beirdo: if I had a basement to put a full rack in, I might be interested
[00:33:50] high-rez: Beirdo: Chicks dig em. Trust me, you want one.
[00:33:51] wagnerrp: sphery: use rackmount?
[00:33:53] high-rez: :)
[00:33:55] Beirdo: but I'm in an apartment
[00:34:11] sphery: yeah
[00:34:22] ** high-rez will never get rid of his server **
[00:35:52] fugdnscerd: i have an old dell pe6400 4u rack mount server!! Not using it right now bc like beirdo I am in an apartment, but i am determined to find a house and will put it to use!! My gigabit switch is noisy enough for my bedroom the way it is
[00:36:34] kisak: your switch puts out noise?
[00:36:35] high-rez: My 4U is one of those old 1990's style 4U's for putting a standard old ATX mobo in :) Its heavy as crap
[00:36:50] Captain_Murdoch: 4-post w/ shelves, sides, and doors in the computer room. identical unit without the doors or walls in the garage collecting dust. saving it for when we get HA capability in the master backend. one in the garage, one upstairs. physical separation, different power circuits, different UPS, borrow an extension cord from the neighbor on a different pole transformer.
[00:37:22] fugdnscerd: it has like four fans, its a rackmount superstack3 24 port gigabit switch
[00:37:23] Beirdo: heheh
[00:37:25] Captain_Murdoch: my rack was free and lets me put all my computers vertically in a small amount of floor space.
[00:37:34] Beirdo: Captain_Murdoch: you rule. If I had a house...
[00:37:49] high-rez: fugdnscerd: Woot. I think my rackmount is more modern than your rackmount. Dual opteron 280's with 16 gigs of ram.  :D
[00:38:02] Beirdo: wagnerrp: actually, I think I want the black version of said case, not silver
[00:38:20] wagnerrp: high-rez: depends on what you consider modern... that thing is ~5yrs old
[00:38:34] fugdnscerd: high-rez definitely more modern but I bet you paid more than 50 bucks for yours :D
[00:38:37] high-rez: wagnerrp: Compared to his PE6400 :)
[00:39:02] ** Captain_Murdoch has a PowerEdge 1850 collecting dust because it doesn't pay to keep the thing on. was cheaper to buy a newer faster computer and it paid for itself in ~10 months with the power savings. **
[00:39:44] high-rez: Amazing how much really expensive stuff at the time geeks collect which is all now worth nothing  :)
[00:40:23] high-rez: wagnerrp: I'd argue that its still pretty capable even by todays standards. Though I'm sure in a couple of years 16 gigs of ram will be standard on desktops.
[00:40:25] iamlindoro: Captain_Murdoch, It always astonishes me when anyone can stand to have *any* rackmount equipment on in their home with all the noise
[00:40:28] fugdnscerd: my pe6400 does pretty good, better than my celeron 2Ghz... I know I have old a$$ equipment but i make it work
[00:40:29] Captain_Murdoch: that 1850 would pull ~2.8 amps running full-bore doing flagging or transcoding. I think it was 1.7 at idle.
[00:40:37] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817338042
[00:40:39] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, this is above the garage
[00:40:56] Captain_Murdoch: the FROG (finished room over garage)
[00:41:03] wagnerrp: Captain_Murdoch: my basement equipment is somewhere around there
[00:41:04] high-rez: I gotta dump mine before it costs me money to send to a recycler ;)
[00:41:11] Beirdo: I think that'd be the power supply...
[00:41:32] Beirdo: high-rez: cart it to the PC Recycle place whatever the heck it's called
[00:41:38] Beirdo: should be free (for now)
[00:42:09] high-rez: Beirdo: Eh, I think I'm gonna be able to get at least a couple beers off of it if I get rid of it soon enough. There's gotta be someone that will drool at the ram and go 'i must have that'
[00:42:19] Beirdo: hehe
[00:42:22] kisak: and here I have a celeron D in a spare shell with 4 drives, a pair of PVR150s and a firewire card
[00:42:43] Captain_Murdoch: iamlindoro, my rack-mount 24-port switch is the noisiest thing up there now and that's not too bad. just a low hum when you're downstairs in the kitchen that leads to the upstairs.
[00:43:13] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: all my stuff is in the back corner of my basement, i never hear it
[00:44:02] wagnerrp: i could probably get that stuff up to 80–90db before i would hear it in the room directly above
[00:44:06] Beirdo: hmm, CPU+case+PS+mobo... no RAM, no disk... $589.96
[00:44:14] fugdnscerd: I can get over the noise, its the girlfriend that gets annoyed by it
[00:44:17] Beirdo: this ain't gonna be cheap
[00:45:32] Wicked (Wicked!~zero@unaffiliated/blazed) has quit (Quit: You should have never seen this quit message!)
[00:46:11] ** high-rez put his server on CL for a few beers **
[00:46:14] jya (jya!~avenardj@60-242-40-141.static.tpgi.com.au) has quit (Quit: jya)
[00:46:42] kisak: 90db out of rackmount equipment?
[00:47:09] Beirdo: easily
[00:47:55] kisak: are you slapping a turbocharger onto the side of the server?
[00:47:59] high-rez: In our datacenter, people walk around wearing ear protection designed for hunting...
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[00:48:06] wagnerrp: Beirdo: that case doesnt take a full size ATX supply?
[00:48:14] Beirdo: kisak: have you ever been to a data center?
[00:48:16] wagnerrp: looks like it should to me
[00:48:25] Beirdo: wagnerrp: it's a mini-itx case, i assume not
[00:48:37] high-rez: Real datacenters damage hearing.
[00:48:53] wagnerrp: Beirdo: but look at the size of the thing
[00:48:54] Beirdo: 90dB would be quiet for a datacenter
[00:49:03] Captain_Murdoch: but they freeze you to death while they do it. :)
[00:49:06] Beirdo: mind you... most of that is AC
[00:49:24] Beirdo: wagnerrp: yeah, it's pretty small, I dunno
[00:49:25] kisak: Beirdo: yes, but to have that in a residential environemt is surprising to me
[00:49:34] Beirdo: that it is a concern before buying
[00:50:43] kisak: I just don't understand how they can sell 15k rpm fans that only push 11cfm
[00:51:00] Captain_Murdoch: density
[00:51:10] Beirdo: it does look like space for a full-size, doesn't it?
[00:51:11] Beirdo: hmmm
[00:51:46] wagnerrp: Beirdo: seems it also has a big brother... http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product0 . . . x=63&g=f
[00:52:34] Beirdo: nice
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[00:52:58] Captain_Murdoch: beirdo, this PS is sold alnog with it on thenewegg page I'm looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339012 and the description on the 2nd tab says standard ATX power supply
[00:52:59] wagnerrp: yeah, site says it takes a standard ATX PSU
[00:53:07] sphery: I say get the one with the built-in refrigeration unit
[00:54:02] high-rez: Wow power chord included. cause we all don't have enough of those ;)
[00:54:03] Beirdo: ah, yes, there it is in the "features" list
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[00:56:15] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341022
[00:56:24] Beirdo: if only I could get rid of the red glow
[00:57:22] sphery: Beirdo: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/processors-rocks,261.html + http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Thermaltake- . . . se,6399.html
[00:57:23] Beirdo: I like the idea of modular cables though
[00:57:25] sphery: :)
[00:57:36] Beirdo: so I don't need to have the bundle of unused wires
[00:58:25] wagnerrp: Beirdo: what could you possibly need that kind of power for?
[00:58:28] sphery: I have an OCZ Fatal1ty PSU (but the 400W variety), and it is very glowy
[00:58:39] Beirdo: well, I don't
[00:58:39] sphery: you wouldn't want it in you viewing room
[00:58:40] Beirdo: hehe
[00:58:55] Beirdo: I want the modular plugs though
[00:58:56] Beirdo: heh
[00:59:15] ** sphery wonders which PSU is in his MBE **
[00:59:20] sphery: it has modular plugs, too
[00:59:27] inordkuo (inordkuo!~inorkuo@adsl-152-148-83.int.bellsouth.net) has quit (Client Quit)
[00:59:35] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016
[00:59:39] Beirdo: ahhh, glow-free
[00:59:51] wagnerrp: antec doesnt have anything less than 550W modular either...
[01:00:01] Beirdo: yeah
[01:00:11] wagnerrp: ive got a modular 500W... :)
[01:00:23] Beirdo: well, when I get to 6 drives in there, I certainly don't wanna be underpowered, but dang
[01:00:55] wagnerrp: there you go, 400W, only $140... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151097
[01:01:15] k4ever_ (k4ever_!~quassel@213.255.230.131) has joined #mythtv-users
[01:01:16] Beirdo: hmm, let's pay MORE for a smaller PSU
[01:01:18] Beirdo: heh
[01:01:20] high-rez: Heh, my bro in law smashed 12 drives into his machine... When he boots up, he has to plug them in individually so they dont kill his PS. :)
[01:01:23] wagnerrp: but its GOLD
[01:01:25] wagnerrp: !
[01:01:32] Beirdo: it is fanless
[01:01:41] Beirdo: which may be good... may be bad
[01:01:55] wagnerrp: yeah, still about 3x more than i would want to spend
[01:02:04] Beirdo: pretty sure that the PSU fan is an integral part of the cooling of that case
[01:02:41] k4ever_: hi all. i got a hauppauge wintv-hvr 850 card running on a laptop with ubuntu 10.04. how do i get mythtv to play tv from the card?
[01:03:30] wagnerrp: k4ever_: mythtv doesnt play from cards, only records from them
[01:03:40] wagnerrp: it then subsequently plays files off your hard drive
[01:03:48] k4ever_: ok, that would explain it
[01:04:10] wagnerrp: meaning even 'watch tv' mode on the menu is a 'just in time' recording
[01:04:38] wagnerrp: if you simply want to watch tv, and you have no intent to record it, you may want to try tvtime for analog, or vlc/mplayer/kaffeine for digital
[01:04:52] k4ever_: ok, thanks
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[01:05:07] high-rez: The beauty of having it record everything it plays though is that you can instantly pause live tv, or rewind livetv...
[01:05:14] k4ever_: i'm running tvtime now, but the video keeps flickering
[01:05:16] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153116
[01:05:20] Beirdo: another contender
[01:05:23] high-rez: Useful for those shows where pople have british accents that you can't understand.  ;)
[01:05:25] wagnerrp: right, its a PVR, not just a video player
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[01:05:56] k4ever_: so if i start a recording i can watch and pause tv as its recording?
[01:06:04] wagnerrp: correct
[01:06:40] ** wagnerrp has some pathological aversion to thermaltake **
[01:07:00] Beirdo: oh?
[01:07:05] Beirdo: bad experience?
[01:07:14] Beirdo: ,21,23,25,27,28,29,30,31,33,34]
[01:07:14] Beirdo: [#mythtv-users]
[01:07:15] wagnerrp: no, never bought a thing from them
[01:07:20] wagnerrp: i refuse to... dont know why
[01:07:21] Beirdo: what the!?!@
[01:07:28] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341016
[01:07:32] high-rez: sometimes my wife and I will be doing whatever and livetv is going on in the background – we come back to it and she's like "ooh can we watch this from the begning?". Just hit the record button and its right there in recorded programs  :) Its brilliant (its a lot easier then hitting back till you get to the begining og the program :D )
[01:07:34] Beirdo: there.
[01:07:49] Beirdo: OCZ, no bling LED
[01:08:07] wagnerrp: they make good memory, dont know about the PSUs
[01:08:12] sphery: heh, the OCZ is in my frontend and doesn't have modular cables
[01:08:18] Beirdo: heh
[01:08:24] sphery: can't find the modular one
[01:08:33] sphery: (or 2)
[01:08:38] wagnerrp: beirdo just pasted the modular one
[01:08:49] high-rez: nobody will ever respect your aimbot if your computer isn't full of LEDs!
[01:09:14] sphery: ah, seems they're both retired non-80-PLUS PSUs
[01:09:58] Beirdo: last thing I need is the machine glowing
[01:10:15] Beirdo: and the LED in the front case fan better be disablable
[01:10:27] Beirdo: or I'll replace the dang fan
[01:10:34] sphery: yeah, the PSU glow is especially annoying since you can't just not plug it in
[01:11:10] sphery: most I've seen in fans are lit when plugged in
[01:11:37] Beirdo: ergh
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[01:11:48] sphery: I often don't plug them in (but I buy low-TDP, low-power-usage hardware, and use spacious cases, so cooling isn't typically an issue for me)
[01:12:08] Beirdo: ah crap, the processor doesn't come with any cooling, does it?
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[01:12:17] sphery: then again, I'm by no means an expert on fans or LEDs in fans
[01:12:48] sphery: that's why you need the Asetek VapoChill or the Termaltake Xpressar cases
[01:12:50] Beirdo: yes it does
[01:13:01] sphery: they just use refrigerator/freezer tech :)
[01:13:01] Beirdo: heatsing and fan included
[01:13:08] Beirdo: heatsink.
[01:13:13] Beirdo: stupid fingers
[01:14:22] Beirdo: so.. no drives. $759.95
[01:14:27] Beirdo: sigh
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[01:14:40] Beirdo: the system drives will be old 300G ones
[01:15:05] sphery: how much of that is CPU and how much case?
[01:15:13] Beirdo: unless I have a matching pair that's smaller
[01:15:19] sphery: those are 2 places where it's easy to spend more than you want
[01:15:29] Beirdo: $279.99 on the i7–860
[01:15:37] Beirdo: case is $109.99
[01:15:38] wagnerrp: the case is $100, board another $100
[01:15:46] Beirdo: board's $139.99
[01:15:47] sphery: wow
[01:15:52] wagnerrp: 140?
[01:15:54] Beirdo: memory $169.99
[01:16:01] sphery: 8GB RAM?
[01:16:04] Beirdo: all newegg pricing
[01:16:07] wagnerrp: 2x4GB
[01:16:08] Beirdo: yup :)
[01:16:13] sphery: yeah
[01:16:30] Beirdo: plus $59.99 for a PSU
[01:16:59] wagnerrp: right... the $140 one was the only one to have 6xSATA ports
[01:17:07] Beirdo: yup
[01:17:30] Beirdo: toss in anoter $124.99 for an HVR-2250
[01:17:47] sphery: ah, yeah
[01:18:12] Beirdo: then my only concern... will that motherboard boot with no video card? ;)(
[01:18:59] wagnerrp: it should
[01:19:07] Beirdo: hope so. :)
[01:19:41] wagnerrp: shame they make no quad-core plus video
[01:20:44] Beirdo: yeah
[01:21:07] Beirdo: if it won't boot without video, then I'd need a video card. sigh
[01:22:53] wagnerrp: could always call customer service
[01:23:10] Beirdo: yeah, could do
[01:23:30] Beirdo: and talk to some dork in Taiwan, most likely
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[01:24:24] Beirdo: another $70ish for a GT220
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[01:25:56] Beirdo: if I were to buy video, it might as well be VDPAU-compatible
[01:26:06] Beirdo: but... I'd rather not
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[01:36:31] Beirdo: blech. going home
[01:38:37] kisak: how would http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150392 compare?
[01:38:47] kisak: for a HD frontend
[01:39:16] wagnerrp: should work fine, fan might be annoying
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[01:41:04] kisak: well, I have a fanless 8600GTS in it now that is having problems with back-to-back playback
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[01:41:27] wagnerrp: this card should work no better or worse
[01:41:37] kisak: says that some resource is unavailable
[01:41:57] kisak: and it fails to create the vdpau object
[01:42:26] wagnerrp: back-to-back... as in a playlist?
[01:42:39] kisak: yes
[01:42:57] wagnerrp: it may not properly tear down the player, before starting up the next one
[01:43:01] wagnerrp: 0.23 or trunk?
[01:43:26] kisak: 0.23.1_r25496
[01:43:48] kisak: (iirc)
[01:43:58] wagnerrp: that code is significantly different in trunk, and the problem may not exist any more, if it exists elsewhere than your system
[01:45:03] kisak: well, the same revision runs fine over on my main desktop, with a 8800GT, but that's a different league in terms of resources
[01:45:22] wagnerrp: nope, theres still only the one resource
[01:45:31] wagnerrp: vdpau only supports a single video instance
[01:46:05] kisak: I ment the capabilities of the cards, not the api
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[01:46:21] wagnerrp: the capabilities of the card are nearly the same
[01:46:33] wagnerrp: VDPAU is done using a dedicated video decoder
[01:46:37] kisak: hmm ... is api the right term in this case?
[01:46:50] wagnerrp: only the deinterlacing is is done in the shader
[01:46:59] kisak: oh?
[01:47:48] kisak: well, if I disable the deinterlacer, perhaps that would increase it's longevity
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[01:50:31] kisak: well, in that case is a nvidia 210 able to handle the deinterlacer?
[01:50:44] wagnerrp: less so than either of those two cards
[01:52:12] kisak: fair enough
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[01:56:48] wagnerrp: Beirdo: you ever test VAAPI on your system?
[01:59:17] kisak: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125304 seems like the next step up while keeping bang-for-buck in mind
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[01:59:56] wagnerrp: overkill
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[02:00:50] kisak: at $40 after rebate it's a better price than a 9500GT with hdmi native
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[02:01:24] wagnerrp: i see $70, no rebate
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[02:01:58] kisak: look under the $10 warranty line
[02:03:04] kisak: the promo is a $30 prepaid visa rebate
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[02:10:27] gavinp`: iamlindoro: I am not sure, but you are probably the man.
[02:10:36] gavinp`: you told me my truncated recordings were likely my network?
[02:10:40] iamlindoro: Well I am sure ;)
[02:10:41] iamlindoro: yeah
[02:10:41] gavinp`: I found I was using the wrong driver for my realtek chip
[02:10:49] kisak: no, it's a fact iamlindoro is the man
[02:10:54] iamlindoro: hah
[02:11:10] iamlindoro: gavinp`, So.... working better now>
[02:11:11] gavinp`: I have some awful r8168 on my motherboard, and my upgrade to lucid overrode my hand-built override using the realtek written r8168 driver
[02:11:12] iamlindoro: ?
[02:11:14] gavinp`: well, no word yet
[02:11:18] kisak: if only i could grab your attention for a minute iamlindoro
[02:11:26] iamlindoro: Ah, I know that chipset
[02:11:29] gavinp`: however, the combination of your diagnosis with my discovery and fixing is promising
[02:11:52] iamlindoro: gavinp`, well, we'll see how it goes
[02:11:54] gavinp`: yeah.
[02:12:01] gavinp`: if this works out, you just _name_ the feature you want in chrome. ;>
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[02:14:05] kisak: iamlindoro: do you use mpeg2fixup.sh which is on your wiki user page
[02:14:17] iamlindoro: kisak, not any longer, no, but it worked fine last time I did
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[02:15:07] kisak: iamlindoro: well, I'm in need of simular, it appears xport can't handle HD video or ac3 surround sound
[02:15:18] iamlindoro: kisak, Did just fine with both last I used it
[02:15:28] iamlindoro: Since I only ever used it on HD material with AC3 sound
[02:15:47] kisak: it must hate me then
[02:16:29] gavinp`: btw, does 23.1 include a good way to recompress content to h.264 or v8?
[02:16:32] gavinp`: (does it even support v8?)
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[02:17:38] iamlindoro: gavinp`, TTBOMK there is no such thing as an open source VP8 encoder
[02:17:48] kisak: iamlindoro: when I run a testfile through it, I get"annot open bitstream file </home/user/xport/3622_20100910173000.mpg>"
[02:17:56] kisak: *Cannot
[02:17:58] gavinp`: iamlindoro: seriously?
[02:18:03] iamlindoro: gavinp`, Seriously
[02:18:06] gavinp`: Wow.
[02:18:13] gavinp`: Google fail.
[02:18:15] iamlindoro: There is an open source decoder, but no encoder yet
[02:18:21] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: ffmpeg is decoder only?
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[02:18:32] iamlindoro: kisak, You could ask the xport author, pretty sure the e-mail is in the course somewhere
[02:18:35] [R]: iamlindoro: TTBOMK?
[02:18:35] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, yeah
[02:18:42] iamlindoro: To The Best Of My Knowledge
[02:18:48] gavinp`: iamlindoro, i feel like ranting about this on eng-misc
[02:18:53] iamlindoro: s/course/source/
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[02:20:19] kisak: gavinp`: ffmpeg -codecs will output the capabilites of your version of ffmpeg
[02:21:16] gavinp`: kisak, yeah. i've written scripts to do this by hand before. i keep thinking, and perhaps this is naive, that a good "just put this in h.264 at something like broadcast mpeg2 quality" is a reasonable script to have as a default in mythtv
[02:21:24] gavinp`: and perhaps i'll write that script at good enough quality to push it one day
[02:22:59] kisak: gavinp`: a script to try to fix potholes in mpeg2 files is what I need
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[02:23:36] gavinp`: iamlindoro, forgive the naive question, but ivfenc in webM is described as a reference encoder
[02:23:39] gavinp`: is it somehow deficient?
[02:24:10] gavinp`: http://www.webmproject.org/tools/vp8-sdk/grou . . . encoder.html
[02:24:27] iamlindoro: gavinp, It's not an open source encoder
[02:24:44] iamlindoro: ie, its license is incompatible with open soruce products
[02:25:07] iamlindoro: so ffmpeg needs to implement an encoder from the spec (preferred) or we would need to add another dep (unlikely to ever happen)
[02:25:19] iamlindoro: The former will probably happen before the .25 ffmpeg sync, so it'
[02:25:21] kisak: from what I've seen, my gut says that there are hundreds to thousands of sub-second holes in the recordings over firewire, and mythtranscode is playing russian roulette with 5 chambers loaded
[02:25:23] iamlindoro: s not really an issue
[02:25:45] gavinp`: ah. i don't take a super careful look at these licensing issues.
[02:25:50] gavinp`: but chrome includes vp8, and chrome is BSD licensed
[02:25:58] iamlindoro: That said, someone would still have to write code to make it a usable mythtranscode codec, and personally have no interest in using VP8 for anything, quality being as bad as it is
[02:26:02] gavinp`: (well, chromium)
[02:26:11] iamlindoro: gavinp, Chrome includes a VP8 decoder, because ffmpeg has one of those
[02:26:20] gavinp`: Yeah, chromium uses ffmpeg.
[02:26:48] gavinp`: It's a weird way it's used. I'm adding some video prefetching support to chromium, so I'm considering instantiating ffmpeg to just walk over a media fragment.
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[02:28:50] ** gavinp` reads the issue. **
[02:28:51] gavinp`: Shame.
[02:29:34] gavinp`: chromium's license is ok with libvpx anyway, since they have very similar BSD-like licenses.
[02:29:49] gavinp`: (although lawyer cat is probably sad that I said that)
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[02:58:30] momelod: greetings channel
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[03:00:39] momelod: i lost all my recordings (dead disk) but its okay since i have seen them all. I mounted a blank disk to myth's recordings path and i still see the missing recordings listed when browsing my recordings. How do i blow away the list of recordings (i currently have no new recordings).
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[03:03:25] Beirdo: kormoc: 2010-09–13 20:00:36.593 Scheduled 1570 items in 21.0 = 0.09 match + 20.92 place
[03:03:51] Beirdo: do we know of ways to improve?
[03:04:40] kisak: kill all the channels you nover would want to use
[03:04:46] kisak: *never
[03:04:58] Beirdo: already been there, that's not an option]
[03:05:09] kisak: Ex: QVC and HSN
[03:05:20] Beirdo: already been there, that's not an option
[03:05:54] kormoc: how many advanced recording rules do you have?
[03:06:11] Beirdo: none that I'm aware of
[03:06:40] Beirdo: just using title search, record all at all times with new episodes only filters for some
[03:06:50] kisak: 2010-09–13 23:00:59.266 Scheduled 1935 items in 18.8 = 0.00 match + 18.75 place
[03:12:40] momelod: anyone have an idea how to remove rouge recordings
[03:15:15] kisak: yes, there's a cleanup routine that I don't remember the name of
[03:16:23] Beirdo: sphery: hehe... so, should I get an ION box for a replacement frontend? :)
[03:17:03] ** Beirdo pokes the bear **
[03:18:42] [R]: i love how vdpau doens't choke anymore on minor hickups
[03:19:08] Beirdo: just major ones :)
[03:19:09] Beirdo: hehe
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[03:27:58] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119016
[03:28:02] Beirdo: hmmm, tempting
[03:29:19] [R]: they were saying something about foxconn sucking and requiring 4gb of memory or something liek that
[03:29:20] [R]: on the ml
[03:29:52] Beirdo: pish :)
[03:30:05] Beirdo: yeah, probably
[03:30:17] Beirdo: I love my D510-based Foxconn though
[03:30:36] Beirdo: i945 video, but makes a really really nice little firewall
[03:30:53] [R]: that's what she said
[03:31:05] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119026
[03:31:38] Beirdo: sorry, GMA 3150 video
[03:31:46] Beirdo: it's essentially headless anyways
[03:32:06] Beirdo: and shows up as 4 CPUs
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[03:32:11] Beirdo: (dual core HT)
[03:32:40] CyberKnet: hard drive failure on drive containing root partition.
[03:32:40] kisak: Beirdo: while you were traveling I took a look at some video cards, ended up ordering a GT240 for $70 (with a $30 rebate)
[03:32:41] CyberKnet: suck.
[03:32:57] Beirdo: not bad
[03:33:07] Beirdo: don't forget to mail that crap in
[03:33:22] CyberKnet: I had a copy of the old database though and ran the migration that is suggested at http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/tips/migrate-recordings.html
[03:33:36] CyberKnet: the old recordings show up in mythweb, but not in the front end....
[03:33:47] kisak: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125304
[03:33:47] Beirdo: CyberKnet: this is why I always try to mirror system disks
[03:34:40] CyberKnet: yep
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[03:36:05] CyberKnet: any thoughts on what table also needs to be copied over such that the shwos will show in the frontend?
[03:36:23] CyberKnet: I'd always used that same guide each time I've done this before and never had any trouble.
[03:37:55] Beirdo: dunno off hand, sorry
[03:38:03] CyberKnet: aw come on.
[03:38:06] CyberKnet: ;)
[03:38:17] Beirdo: sphery might know
[03:38:36] CyberKnet: maybe someone in #mythtv-ubuntu might also know
[03:44:38] CyberKnet: hmmm... I have the actual database from the before the system crashed
[03:44:50] CyberKnet: perhaps I should just put that in place of the new database.
[03:45:39] Beirdo: that would work if the hostnames match
[03:45:54] Beirdo: should work anyways
[03:49:02] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107072
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[03:49:12] Beirdo: Hmmm, even more tempting
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[03:53:31] CyberKnet: hostnames match, but in a weird twist, I deleted all the things that had recorded since I rebuilt the machine, and the front end prompted me to change a filter
[03:53:35] CyberKnet: and now all the recordings show
[03:53:42] CyberKnet: (at least, I think the hostnames match)
[03:53:49] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856107076
[03:54:46] CyberKnet: first one is *really* thin.
[03:54:58] CyberKnet: if you can remove the odd stand, it's nice.
[03:55:15] CyberKnet: no ram in it though?
[03:55:29] Beirdo: the second you can put an optical drive into
[03:55:31] CyberKnet: no ram or disk.
[03:55:36] Beirdo: correct
[03:55:47] CyberKnet: was wondering how it was so cheap.
[03:56:39] Beirdo: yeah well :)
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[03:57:36] CyberKnet: I'm still wondering where the viewsonic number went
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[03:58:53] CyberKnet: the VOT132
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[04:01:22] Beirdo: $515.96 fully loaded (4GB / 160GB, BD-ROM)
[04:01:51] Beirdo: that is getting pretty close to a mac mini
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[04:09:52] CyberKnet: true.
[04:10:09] CyberKnet: and a mac mini isn't exactly packing an intel atom
[04:10:19] Beirdo: core2 duo
[04:10:23] CyberKnet: yep.
[04:10:27] Beirdo: but not BD-ROM
[04:10:37] Beirdo: and not 4G
[04:10:44] CyberKnet: No mac has a BD-ROM option, does it?
[04:10:53] Beirdo: dunno
[04:11:01] CyberKnet: I don't think any of them do.
[04:11:05] CyberKnet: not even a Mac Pro
[04:11:21] Beirdo: I think I'd still rather do this atom-based with ION2
[04:11:58] CyberKnet: what's the word on the d-link boxee box ... any potential for it and myth?
[04:12:22] Beirdo: no clue
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[04:13:30] CyberKnet: that's oh for two tonight.
[04:13:41] Beirdo: heh
[04:15:46] Beirdo: I still think that Camero ION box is kinda cool
[04:16:03] Beirdo: I'm not a Chevy fan though, and it's overpriced
[04:16:05] CyberKnet: I haven't seen it.
[04:16:12] kormoc: Beirdo, is it consistently that slow to schedule?
[04:16:19] Beirdo: yes
[04:16:21] CyberKnet: hey rob.
[04:16:38] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856502002
[04:16:44] Beirdo: there, now you've seen it
[04:16:45] Beirdo: :)
[04:16:55] kormoc: CyberKnet, Howdy! How goes it?
[04:17:06] CyberKnet: not bad, you?
[04:17:18] kormoc: fair, can't complain :)
[04:17:19] CyberKnet: Beirdo: Oh. I thought it was an in-car system, not a system-in-a-car
[04:17:30] Beirdo: cute, eh?
[04:17:36] CyberKnet: ish.
[04:17:40] CyberKnet: expensive.
[04:17:43] Beirdo: power LED = headlights
[04:17:49] CyberKnet: but hey, we all know I'm scottish.
[04:17:52] Beirdo: harddrive LED = taillights
[04:18:00] Beirdo: oh, I wouldn't pay that much for it
[04:18:09] Beirdo: but it's kinda cool
[04:18:14] CyberKnet: Yeah.
[04:18:18] CyberKnet: Now if it were a vette...
[04:18:24] Beirdo: make that a BMW M5...
[04:18:27] CyberKnet: hah
[04:18:30] Beirdo: they make a Vette too
[04:18:43] Beirdo: it's not on newegg yet though
[04:18:52] CyberKnet: yeah ... I guess I could onlyr eally justify it if it matched the maserati in the driveway...
[04:19:10] Beirdo: you mean the 1980 Tercel?
[04:19:13] kormoc: oh you lucky man
[04:19:17] CyberKnet: lol
[04:20:07] CyberKnet: If there was a maserati in my driveway that would mean two things....
[04:20:11] CyberKnet: 1) Someone was REALLY lost.
[04:20:20] CyberKnet: 2) They were about to be REALLY sorry they were lost.
[04:20:21] CyberKnet: :D
[04:20:30] Beirdo: or 3) Your wife traded up?
[04:20:41] Beirdo: I guess that leads to 2)
[04:20:44] kormoc: ha
[04:20:59] CyberKnet: yeah. none of which lead to 6) Profit!
[04:21:06] CyberKnet: unless they end in dot com
[04:21:16] Beirdo: hehehe
[04:21:18] CyberKnet: aah those were the days.
[04:21:25] CyberKnet: we all dreamed we could have such cars.
[04:21:41] CyberKnet: alas ... Tercel.
[04:21:47] CyberKnet: ;)
[04:22:10] ** Beirdo still owns a Toyota **
[04:22:18] Beirdo: too bad it's thousands of miles away
[04:22:28] Beirdo: actually, may have a buyer for it
[04:22:33] CyberKnet: woot.
[04:22:43] CyberKnet: I'll split the proceeds with you...
[04:22:47] CyberKnet: heh
[04:22:50] kisak: alrighty ... my main desktop is back online
[04:22:58] Beirdo: heh, all $0 profit?
[04:23:33] Beirdo: Ice Road Truckers time
[04:23:40] kormoc: Beirdo, split the loss with him!
[04:23:44] Beirdo: hehe
[04:23:47] Beirdo: yeah, really
[04:24:33] Beirdo: Hmmm.
[04:24:39] CyberKnet: I always wondered what the church would do if I handed them a bill one month and said that God could take the good times *and* the bad times.
[04:24:45] CyberKnet: negative tithe.
[04:25:05] Beirdo: If I'm gonna pay THAT much for a frontend replacement, I'm gonna look at Shuttle boxes
[04:31:18] [R]: blah
[04:31:21] [R]: finally found my usb stick
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[04:35:37] darkdrgn2k: any one know how to do mingetty autologin on fedora 13?
[04:35:47] CyberKnet: no
[04:35:53] Beirdo: I'm sure SOMEONE does
[04:36:05] CyberKnet: nope
[04:36:07] Beirdo: but this isn't #fedora
[04:36:28] darkdrgn2k: they moved the inittab to events.d in 12.. then in 13 they moved it to sysconfig..
[04:36:29] darkdrgn2k: arg
[04:36:30] CyberKnet: or #mingetty, coincidentally.
[04:36:41] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856119019
[04:36:44] Beirdo: hmmm
[04:37:19] CyberKnet: Beirdo: If your conscience can stomach it.
[04:37:27] CyberKnet: Beirdo: Hungry minds are more alert.
[04:37:29] Beirdo: stomach what?
[04:37:49] CyberKnet: rather.
[04:37:58] CyberKnet: hungry people have especially clear minds.
[04:38:33] CyberKnet: Quote from Terry Gou – president of Foxconn.
[04:38:41] Beirdo: I don't see an issue with a core2 duo/quad
[04:38:50] Beirdo: meh
[04:39:02] Beirdo: you gonna toss your iPhone too?
[04:39:16] CyberKnet: Can't. Company bought it without asking me.
[04:39:22] Beirdo: pretty sure Foxconn was involved with those too
[04:39:32] Beirdo: and toss your Nikes too
[04:39:40] CyberKnet: If it's electronic, there's a good chance Foxconn has some part in it.
[04:39:47] Beirdo: and let's not even talk about WalMart
[04:40:11] Beirdo: big company = nasty
[04:40:34] CyberKnet: stupid vnc not working.
[04:40:51] Beirdo: hmmm, one problem with that box
[04:40:55] Beirdo: 2 SATA
[04:41:02] Beirdo: I want at least 3
[04:41:09] CyberKnet: yep.
[04:41:18] CyberKnet: You'd need to buy my 9500S-4LP
[04:41:21] CyberKnet: ;)
[04:41:35] Beirdo: hah
[04:41:43] Beirdo: PCI Express only
[04:41:53] CyberKnet: d'oh.
[04:41:53] Beirdo: low profile pcie only in fact
[04:42:03] CyberKnet: Areca makes some nice ones of those.
[04:42:30] Beirdo: I'd want 3 if I want an optical drive
[04:42:46] Beirdo: Or I put an LCD module in that bay... hmmm
[04:42:49] CyberKnet: I'd just pass on the optical drive and USB it when you need it.
[04:43:31] Beirdo: then the 2 would be for mirrored 2.5" disk
[04:44:05] CyberKnet: yep.
[04:44:15] CyberKnet: fakeraid mirroring?
[04:45:09] Beirdo: md
[04:45:20] Beirdo: kernel mirroring. works well enough
[04:47:42] Beirdo: one memory slot
[04:47:43] Beirdo: heh
[04:47:54] CyberKnet: those are some limitations, eh?
[04:48:24] CyberKnet: Just get an HDMI and USB extender (over cat-5) and put a full-size machine where ever you want it.
[04:48:41] Beirdo: meh
[04:48:46] Beirdo: I don't want a fullsize
[04:48:55] CyberKnet: yes you do.
[04:48:59] Beirdo: I have one now, and it's underpower
[04:49:00] wagnerrp: CyberKnet: just get a big long HDMI cable.. for less
[04:49:15] wagnerrp: no one wants a full size pc
[04:49:27] wagnerrp: just what are you going to do with all those expansion slots on a frontend?
[04:49:39] wagnerrp: maybe a video card... and thats it
[04:49:43] CyberKnet: coffee maker.
[04:49:50] CyberKnet: definitely the coffee maker expansion card.
[04:49:53] Beirdo: heh
[04:50:21] CyberKnet: also, I opted for the NVIDIA Toastmaker expansion port. Slide a piece of bread into the slot below the graphics card. flip after 30s. Toast.
[04:50:54] CyberKnet: it uses the PCI power to operate an electromagnet spring to eject the bread.
[04:52:59] Beirdo: wagnerrp: Wolfdale core OK?
[04:53:12] Beirdo: E5400 for instance
[04:54:53] wagnerrp: no quad core?
[04:55:06] Beirdo: for a small frontend-only box
[04:55:21] wagnerrp: oh, probably a bit slow, what clock rate?
[04:55:24] Beirdo: the backend will be i7–860, I think
[04:55:44] Beirdo: 2.7GHz dual core
[04:56:11] wagnerrp: well that will do your HDPVR stuff, but it will choke on bluray
[04:56:19] Beirdo: my intention would be to put in a low-profile VDPAU-capable card
[04:56:30] wagnerrp: just get a VDPAU capable board
[04:56:31] Beirdo: K
[04:56:31] [R]: wagnerrp: THAT's what she said
[04:56:31] [R]: :)
[04:56:57] wagnerrp: unless youre looking for the advanced deinterlacers
[04:57:13] Beirdo: well, I'm pricing out different options... got an ION2 all speced out
[04:57:40] Beirdo: now I'm looking at a small 775-based setup
[04:57:42] wagnerrp: WTF is wrong with you... bttv cards are not 'hardware mpeg video capture cards', even if they have a digital tuner
[04:57:55] Beirdo: hahah
[04:57:56] [R]: they have digital tuners with bttv crap?
[04:58:07] Beirdo: yes they do
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[04:58:37] Beirdo: 65W.
[04:58:41] Beirdo: not bad
[04:59:05] wagnerrp: [R]: sure, it doesnt cost them much to put a framegrabber on a digital tuner
[04:59:17] wagnerrp: and it adds a significant perceived value to the user
[04:59:24] wagnerrp: whytey, you are an idoit
[05:00:17] wagnerrp: !seen WhyTey
[05:00:17] MythLogBot: WhyTey has not been seen here
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[05:01:06] wagnerrp: 'issues and problems: it doesnt decode mpeg2'....
[05:01:33] wagnerrp: no one actually wanted 'full featured' cards, they were just a necessary evil
[05:02:23] wagnerrp: wait a minute... i already deleted one page for these cards in the last couple days
[05:03:30] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127516
[05:05:26] wagnerrp: and Arrikhan... using a digital tuner solely for SD analog
[05:05:30] wagnerrp: crazy fool
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[05:08:20] peterpan13_ptl: I'm having trouble with live tv audio through analog channels on my myth box... audio from myth recordings are fine playing back through myth frontend, but with live tv, I'm getting a screeching sound that comes and goes.... any idea what I need to adjust?
[05:10:17] Beirdo: hmm
[05:10:29] Beirdo: $369.93 all in.
[05:10:40] Beirdo: I guess I should add the LCD module :)
[05:10:45] iamlindoro: <iamlindoro> That said, I'm not sure how you could do otherwise-- MythUI *does* ha
[05:10:51] iamlindoro: darn
[05:10:53] iamlindoro: I mean:
[05:10:54] iamlindoro: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/hdcp-maste . . . opy-protect/
[05:10:58] iamlindoro: "Whoops"
[05:11:16] sofar: Hi folks, I've setup a backend with local OTC ATSC channels on my dvb-s card, and can watch all the channels without problem, but I'm not getting EIT enabled
[05:11:35] sofar: I've found this reference by 'trainboy' here: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1410407.html
[05:11:39] wagnerrp: sofar: you dont want to use EIT with ATSC
[05:11:42] iamlindoro: ATSC + DVB-S = does not compute
[05:11:44] wagnerrp: as there is relatively little to be had
[05:12:13] iamlindoro: ATSC = US OTA. DVB-S = Satellite
[05:12:16] sofar: well there's nothing, but I know there's program information on these channels as I can confirm from a TV my relatives have with OTA tuner
[05:12:31] sofar: whoops not DVB-s then, sorry
[05:12:36] wagnerrp: yes, generally only the current and next show
[05:12:40] sofar: yes
[05:12:40] sofar: but
[05:12:41] wagnerrp: rarely more than a day
[05:12:48] sofar: backend passive scan never finds anything
[05:12:52] wagnerrp: yes but, thats worthless for mythtv's purposes
[05:12:58] sofar: I agree
[05:12:58] sofar: but
[05:13:02] wagnerrp: youre better off not worrying about it
[05:13:06] sofar: it doesn't get even an error
[05:13:09] sofar: nothing
[05:13:33] sofar: well, unless I can get more information for free somewhere else... indulge me?
[05:13:35] wagnerrp: use schedules direct, get your 2 weeks of quality data
[05:13:49] sofar: 2 weeks for free, spam in my inbox? and then?
[05:13:58] ** sofar reluctant **
[05:14:16] wagnerrp: no, 2 weeks of data for mythtv to schedule with
[05:14:19] iamlindoro: What inbox spam?
[05:14:22] wagnerrp: updated once a day
[05:14:34] sofar: The cost of membership is currently US$20/year, with a 7 day free trial. A 2 month membership is also available for US$5 for those who do not wish to commit to an entire year.
[05:14:41] wagnerrp: correct
[05:14:42] sofar: still not free :)
[05:14:44] wagnerrp: so
[05:14:49] iamlindoro: Correct, things of value cost money
[05:14:56] [R]: sofar: myth is an expensive hobby
[05:14:58] wagnerrp: there is no free data
[05:15:06] wagnerrp: there used to be, but commercial entities abused it
[05:15:08] Beirdo: there is no free lunch
[05:15:08] sofar: well, there is on EIT lol
[05:15:09] wagnerrp: so it was taken away
[05:15:14] iamlindoro: EIT is no guarantee, there are plenty of places with no EIT whatsoever including, apparently, yours
[05:15:18] wagnerrp: now we have to license it for a pittance like anyone else
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[05:15:43] sofar: EIT in my area works, I can send photographs from the TV at my inlaws :)
[05:15:54] iamlindoro: sofar, Huh? That has nothing to do with EIT
[05:16:07] peterpan13_ptl: hi, everyone. I'm having trouble with live tv audio through analog channels on my myth box... audio from myth recordings are fine playing back through myth frontend, but with live tv, I'm getting a screeching sound that comes and goes.... any idea what I need to adjust?
[05:16:18] sofar: ok so there's something else besides EIT?
[05:16:48] iamlindoro: sofar, EIT is a passive receipt of data muxed in the stream by the broadcaster-- you can't send files in it, or anything else
[05:17:03] sofar: how does the tv get the information then? it doesn't have cable, just an OTA antenna
[05:17:05] iamlindoro: And yes, there's something else-- Schedules Direct (the better choice)
[05:17:14] sofar: same channels as my mythtv
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[05:18:51] sofar: I'm aware of how EIT, teletekst etc work
[05:19:06] wagnerrp: sofar: how much information do they get with EIT?
[05:19:31] sofar: last time I looked 5–8 hours ahead per channel
[05:19:41] sofar: which would be enough for my purposes for now
[05:20:43] sofar: I'm running mythbackend --verbose important,general,eit right now, but nothing EIT related after "EITScanner (1): Started passive scan."
[05:21:22] wagnerrp: doesnt passive scan mean it will only pick up data it comes across while doing normal recordings?
[05:21:43] wagnerrp: as opposed to active scan, which polls all available muxes every couple minutes
[05:21:53] iamlindoro: Vice Versa, unfortunately
[05:21:55] sofar: I assume that once the EITScanner says it's active, and the channel is tuned, it processes the EIT data
[05:22:10] iamlindoro: as in, the passive scan occurs when the tuner is passive
[05:22:11] sofar: good point tho, I don't know how to force an active scan
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[05:22:48] wagnerrp: seems backwards to me
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[05:24:33] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: so are we to see a new rash of strippers?
[05:25:01] Beirdo: strippers?
[05:25:06] wagnerrp: HDCP strippers
[05:25:14] peterpan13_ptl: Hi.... I'm having trouble with audio screeching during live tv analog channel viewing on myth box... no problem watching back recorded programs... video is fine during live tv, but audio sounds terrible.... does anyone have any idea what I should look at?
[05:25:16] wagnerrp: if the news of the master key being computed is true
[05:25:17] Beirdo: oh, not as interesting
[05:25:42] iamlindoro: peterpan13_ptl, Repeating yourself every 8 mintues is not the way to make friends
[05:26:07] wagnerrp: peterpan13_ptl: audio troubles during livetv generally means youre using a framegrabber
[05:26:20] wagnerrp: something most people around here havent used for several years, or ever
[05:26:21] peterpan13_ptl: ugggg, wasn't sure if my earlier posts went through, as my irc client was prompting me to enter my password... sorry
[05:26:36] wagnerrp: IRC clients should require a password
[05:26:51] wagnerrp: that may have been nickserv asking you for a server authentication
[05:26:56] wagnerrp: erm... shouldnt
[05:27:33] wagnerrp: make sure your line input on your sound card is muted... thats about all i know to check
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[05:28:48] iamlindoro: yikes, that's some key: http://pastebin.com/kqD56TmU
[05:29:30] peterpan13_ptl: okay.... I'll check that.... I'm using hauppauge Win-TV HVR 1600, analog side of it.... does that make a difference?
[05:29:49] wagnerrp: hopefully youre using that 1600 as an 'mpeg encoder card'?
[05:30:27] peterpan13_ptl: how else could it be configured?
[05:30:43] wagnerrp: people often set it up incorrectly as a V4L tuner
[05:31:02] peterpan13_ptl: oh, okay, I'll take a look at that, too....
[05:31:58] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: thats probably a Masters work right there... if you wouldnt get sued into oblivion for breaking it
[05:32:12] wagnerrp: s/probably/easily/
[05:32:31] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, Alternately, some guy with access to the highest levels of the information and a grudge :)
[05:32:43] wagnerrp: or that
[05:32:56] wagnerrp: boss slept with his wife
[05:33:10] Beirdo: and his daughter
[05:33:28] sofar: lawl
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[05:44:28] peterpan13_ptl: wagnerrp, you rock! it's working now.... the problem was either with the line input not being muted, or with channel frequency table being set to us-broadcast instead of us-cable, which I changed.... thank you for your help!
[05:44:47] wagnerrp: neither of those should have done anything
[05:44:51] peterpan13_ptl: ha
[05:45:08] peterpan13_ptl: well, something changed, for the better!
[05:45:33] wagnerrp: unless youre getting some weird ground loop feeding into your line input whenever your tuner card is active
[05:45:58] wagnerrp: but even then, that should exist so long as the cable is connected to your card
[05:46:04] wagnerrp: regardless of whether its in use or not
[05:47:00] peterpan13_ptl: only other thing I did was reboot the box before making those changes.... maybe my earlier tweaking with audio settings needed a reboot to take effect?
[05:48:58] peterpan13_ptl: in any event, thank you
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[06:41:28] Beirdo: hehehe
[06:42:02] Beirdo: I was just wondering why my filldb was taking so long... then I remembered that the tweaks aren't actually IN trunk
[06:42:05] Beirdo: heh
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[06:42:45] [R]: Beirdo: that's what she said
[06:43:43] Beirdo: uh huh
[06:45:05] [R]: you know
[06:45:07] [R]: taking too long
[06:45:32] ** Beirdo shakes his head **
[06:45:38] Beirdo: crazy people
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[07:00:27] wagnerrp: amazing...
[07:00:38] wagnerrp: some person wrote up two pages for the same exact tuner card
[07:00:45] Beirdo: now THAT's what she said
[07:00:45] wagnerrp: i guess he lost the first page, and made a second
[07:00:57] Beirdo: hehe, oh that's wonderful
[07:01:17] [R]: Beirdo: i don't get that one
[07:01:28] Beirdo: amazing.
[07:01:30] Beirdo: duh
[07:01:32] wagnerrp: yeah, why would she talk about tuner cards?
[07:02:22] [R]: haha
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[07:08:37] wagnerrp: guy creates an account, spawns ~30 tuner pages with very generic information on tuner cards over the course of 50 minutes
[07:08:43] wagnerrp: and then hes gone forever
[07:08:46] wagnerrp: whats the point?
[07:09:01] Beirdo: guy walks into a bar...
[07:09:03] Beirdo: ouch
[07:11:12] wagnerrp: seems it was a brief sojourn, before he abandoned us for mediaportal
[07:11:24] Beirdo: oh well
[07:12:10] [R]: blah
[07:12:13] [R]: am i gonna have to blow myself up
[07:12:18] [R]: to figure out if this thing is 3.3V or 5V?
[07:12:30] Beirdo: Dunno, better as Osama
[07:12:41] Beirdo: ask...
[07:12:50] Beirdo: stupid fingers
[07:12:52] wagnerrp: ive got half a mind to just delete all these things outright
[07:12:59] wagnerrp: they have no information of any value
[07:13:45] Beirdo: go for it
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[07:22:12] wagnerrp: heres a better one... not only is it a duplicate page, but it specifically links to the other page
[07:23:15] ** Beirdo heh **
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[07:27:34] wagnerrp: DVB-T supports encryption?
[07:28:16] anykey__: yes
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[08:35:46] justinh: not only does it support encryption, it supports CI+, the very worst kind
[08:37:10] justinh: ci+ has the potential to become the European equivalent of cablecard & it's already being used
[08:39:03] Beirdo: gonna try something interesting
[08:39:19] wagnerrp: clean up the nuvexport page?
[08:39:26] Beirdo: reniced mysql to 1
[08:39:40] wagnerrp: my god, have you seen that thing
[08:39:59] wagnerrp: i never bothered to learn how to use it, because of the massivity of it
[08:40:06] Beirdo: when I reschedule, it pegs the CPU and glitches playback, it seems
[08:40:07] simonckenyon (simonckenyon!~simoncken@195.7.61.12) has left #mythtv-users ("Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is")
[08:40:14] Beirdo: hmm?
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[08:40:21] Beirdo: the nuvexport page?
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[08:40:30] Beirdo: nuvexport is real frigging simple
[08:40:36] justinh: it's um... comprehensive
[08:40:40] Beirdo: cd to the output dir
[08:40:43] wagnerrp: it tops the scales at just over 120kb
[08:40:46] Beirdo: run nuvexport
[08:40:53] Beirdo: use the menu :)
[08:40:57] wagnerrp: mediawiki starts complaing at 32kb
[08:41:06] wagnerrp: apparently at that point, youve broken IE
[08:41:19] justinh: Beirdo: yeah but what do all the options do? in excruciating detail, hmm? ;-)
[08:41:24] Beirdo: the shortforms for command lines... that's what makes it tricky, but you don't NEED to do it
[08:41:45] justinh: does nuvexport have presets?
[08:41:50] Beirdo: yes
[08:42:00] Beirdo: there's an rc file
[08:42:25] Beirdo: we'll have to update that page...
[08:42:31] justinh: and has anybody made nice ones like 'export to ipod' etc?
[08:42:37] Beirdo: but not tonight, it's bedtime
[08:42:42] Beirdo: yes
[08:42:49] Beirdo: why don't you run it and find out :)
[08:42:55] justinh: been yonks since the last time I tried it
[08:43:00] Beirdo: heh
[08:43:06] wagnerrp: ouch... the harmony 880 page
[08:43:09] justinh: last time I had incompatible versions of everything & gave up
[08:43:17] wagnerrp: 3/4 of it is lircrc configs for mplayer and xine
[08:43:34] Beirdo: mplayer is still relevant
[08:43:43] wagnerrp: and the harmony remotes dont even have a IR profile for which to configure for
[08:43:47] Beirdo: until VCD playback no longer uses it :)
[08:43:54] Beirdo: like anyone uses it
[08:43:55] Beirdo: hehe
[08:44:04] ** justinh votes for dropping VCD support **
[08:44:06] wagnerrp: its an lirc conf for the MCE receiver
[08:44:27] ** wagnerrp seconds the motion **
[08:44:44] ** Beirdo votes for not dropping support for stuff without understanding if anyone IS using it or not **
[08:45:22] justinh: ok then, so we need CD-G support then
[08:45:23] Beirdo: at least posting on the mailing lists that it's on the chopping block and waiting a bit for responses would be in order
[08:45:42] ** wagnerrp votes screw em, no one should have used VCD for the last decade **
[08:45:53] Beirdo: VCD will likely disappear, but we should at least poll the user base
[08:46:05] Beirdo: chances are nobody gives half a crap
[08:46:09] wagnerrp: this needs to be done for their own good
[08:46:17] Beirdo: uh huh
[08:46:20] wagnerrp: if they wish to continue to use VCD, we must prevent them
[08:46:22] wagnerrp: :)
[08:46:28] ** justinh sharpens one end of the pole **
[08:46:43] justinh: ready for polling!
[08:47:01] wagnerrp: back! BACK! you crazy luddite!
[08:47:32] Beirdo: OK, not as much poll but warn
[08:47:57] wagnerrp: does the internal player not support VCDs?
[08:47:59] justinh: tbh I'm slightly taken aback that so many libs are kept separate
[08:48:02] wagnerrp: or are you talking about making new ones?
[08:48:04] Beirdo: when we release 0.24, having a list of stuff that's getting ripped out for 0.25 would be good
[08:48:22] Beirdo: wagnerrp: the default setting for VCD playback is to use mplayer
[08:48:36] Beirdo: and there's a setting specifically for that
[08:48:38] justinh: maybe Internal is capable of playing VCD.. who knows...
[08:48:44] justinh: anybody got a VCD to try it with? ;-)
[08:48:49] Beirdo: which is likely to disappear in the rehash
[08:49:01] Beirdo: heh, no, I could go buy one in Chinatown
[08:49:02] Beirdo: hehe
[08:49:13] wagnerrp: you think they still sell them there?
[08:49:22] justinh: I might still have a South Park pirate my dad gave me 12 years ago or so
[08:49:31] wagnerrp: dvds are as cheap as cds these days
[08:49:56] Beirdo: heh, well, it used to be a very big thing for Chinese movies
[08:50:08] Beirdo: I don't mean ripoffs of US-based stuff
[08:50:18] Beirdo: I mean Hong Kong and China-based movies
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[08:51:22] justinh: and of course piracy, befopre divx came along
[08:51:31] Beirdo: but if we announce it's gone for 0.25, I doubt anyone would complain
[08:51:54] Beirdo: but either way, it's not coming out for 0.24, so let's just give em fair warning and let em whine :)
[08:52:01] justinh: maybe leave VCD support in nuvexport though.. ;-)
[08:52:11] Beirdo: already gone
[08:52:16] justinh: heheh
[08:52:24] Beirdo: I wrote it, I deleted it :)
[08:52:35] Beirdo: and not a single complaint yet
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[08:52:58] camel1cz: Hi guys
[08:53:03] justinh: don't imagine many folks have working portable VCD players anymore ;)
[08:53:14] Beirdo: probably not :)
[08:53:40] justinh: wonder if DVD players still support VCD playback out of the box. My panny did, but it's way old now
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[08:55:16] camel1cz: Sorry to bother with yet another question :-) ...I need to "instant" record 4 channels using mythtv... is this possible? I don't see such option in recording settings...
[08:55:47] wagnerrp: yes, add four tuners, go into the guide and tell it to record those four shows
[08:56:37] camel1cz: wagnerrp: The problem is, I don't want to record specific show, I want to record everything, everytime...
[08:56:50] wagnerrp: mythtv is not designed for that
[08:57:00] wagnerrp: it can be done, but not well
[08:57:45] camel1cz: wagnerrp: Hmm, I like mythtv and would like to use it... can you point me in the rigth direction, pls?
[08:58:16] wagnerrp: just what exactly are you looking to do this for?
[08:59:09] wagnerrp: Snapstream makes commercial DVRs designed specifically for that purpose
[08:59:28] Beirdo: [!!] Joins performed without indexes: 22
[08:59:33] Beirdo: iiinteresting
[08:59:45] wagnerrp: if you want to do this with mythtv, you should probably spend some time replacing the scheduler
[08:59:49] Beirdo: wonder which joins we have that are naughty
[09:00:00] Beirdo: I bet it's the BUSQ
[09:00:01] wagnerrp: because otherwise youre going to be doing some huge amount of processing for no reason
[09:00:18] camel1cz: wagnerrp: The issue is in short like this: I need to record all shows on 4 specific channels and allow someone to review all of them... then delete it. It should be used like buffer to not force the person to sit before TV the whole day...
[09:00:56] Beirdo: hmmm, let's see.
[09:01:10] wagnerrp: http://www.snapstream.com/enterprise/
[09:01:12] [R]: like someone watching for naughty content on a channel?
[09:01:14] [R]: haha
[09:01:22] Beirdo: you want to record... 96h/day of TV so someone doesn't have to sit in front of a TV for 24h?
[09:01:47] Beirdo: not sure how that's gonna work
[09:01:51] camel1cz: [R]: Would be nice job :-D
[09:01:51] [R]: wagnerrp: couldn't you make a custom query that does a "record on channel" with a title of wildcard?
[09:02:09] [R]: camel1cz: not if it was for some crazy job like tv censor and the person belived that naughty content was bad
[09:02:11] wagnerrp: [R]: sure, but the scheduler is still not designed for that
[09:02:22] [R]: wagnerrp: THAT'S what she said
[09:02:25] wagnerrp: and its going to spend a lot of time placing all those channels
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[09:03:20] camel1cz: Beirdo: The person needs just to read/listen credits and extract info about authors of the show... I actuall don't need the whole shows, just the beginnings and endings of them.
[09:03:39] camel1cz: [R]: Hmm, my application is very similar :-/
[09:04:55] camel1cz: wagnerrp: As per today, we're using stock hardware recorders... I doubt, mythtv should have any big issues with this...
[09:05:13] [R]: why doubt mythtvs capabilities whne talking to a developer?
[09:06:38] camel1cz: [R]: No offense, man! I just know, mythtv is very good piece of software and is much better than firmware of stock hardware recorder...
[09:07:11] camel1cz: [R]: Sorry for my english – as you probably noticed – I'm not native speaker :-/
[09:07:24] [R]: myth is good... its a good PVR
[09:07:28] [R]: not a good "record everyhting"
[09:07:54] camel1cz: Hmhm...
[09:08:34] camel1cz: [R]: wagnerrp: So, you guys wouldn't recommend to use it for my application?
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[09:11:09] camel1cz: wagnerrp: snapstream is way out of my budget :-(
[09:11:23] Beirdo: wagnerrp: yup, seems that the join in the BUSQ runs without index (likely on the temp table)
[09:12:08] [R]: Beirdo: damn those crazy indicies
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[09:12:58] Beirdo: OK, and let's limit my mysql connections. 151 is overkill... 50 would more than do
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[09:20:50] justinh: good luck reading the credits on many channels, anyway
[09:21:18] justinh: what invariably happens is, they end up in a multiscreen split while the next show is announced
[09:21:29] justinh: and upcoming shows & other crud
[09:23:34] camel1cz: justinh: Yea, they can FF thru the show... but I'm really happy my job is to prepare the hardware/software :-)
[09:24:10] Beirdo: OK, bed
[09:24:19] justinh: if I had $$$$ for every time somebody from a $company came here asking advice on how to do their job.. man...
[09:29:27] camel1cz: Sure, I know it has to be boring... what to say...
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[09:30:47] justinh: it's not boring. that isn't the point
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[09:36:07] justinh: try http://groups.google.com/group/mythtv-contractors :-)
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[09:38:37] camel1cz: justinh: IC, I don't have enough time, so I'll find a solution, but I'm considering a donation if possible...
[09:39:52] ** justinh wonders who all these metadata collecting companies are, anyway **
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[09:45:06] camel1cz: justinh: I'm not the first one? :-)
[09:45:30] justinh: nope
[09:48:02] camel1cz: Interesing... if I would say, what I do, I guess I would get a kick :-)
[09:48:36] justinh: work for Tribune, by any chance?
[09:50:12] justinh: hey, all these services have to get their information somehow – and everybody is looking to make a buck out of information
[09:51:14] justinh: see all kinds of companies asking for help here – there was one a while ago looking to verify that advertising went out on the right channels at the right time
[09:52:39] justinh: even MS are looking at being able to transcribe whole shows so users will be able to do a text search & pull up content
[09:52:59] camel1cz: justinh: No, we're monitoring just our local TV channels – I'm from Czech...
[09:53:45] justinh: I expect certain unions need to make sure their members are properly credited, too...
[09:59:00] camel1cz: justinh: Yes, like that... and on top, authors get another fees from broadcasting their work... you know, we in EU have different law than you in US
[10:00:02] justinh: I'm in the UK
[10:00:58] justinh: so basically whoever collects royalties wants to verify that everything the TV companies decalre is correct. Understandable :)
[10:01:07] justinh: *declare
[10:01:31] camel1cz: justinh: Ah, sorry... so it's the same there. Yep, that's it...
[10:01:47] camel1cz: justinh: Nice, I'm still not kicked :-D
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[10:05:49] justinh: why would you get kicked for saying you work for a company looking to protect artist's rights?
[10:06:20] justinh: we're all about that here :)
[10:11:03] camel1cz: justinh: Nice to hear that... but this issue is very complicated. Many folks like to "protect the rights of artists" but when it results in charging them when they buy empty DVD, we become thiefs...
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[10:20:28] camel1cz: wagnerrp: Beirdo: justinh: Than you very much for your time... have a nice day!
[10:21:07] ** camel1cz thinks, it's not the last time, I'm here :-) **
[10:21:10] messerting: Hi, I'm trying to compile latest 0.23 fixes from svn, with --enable-proc-opt, but get "make: *** [sub-libs-make_default-ordered] Error 2"
[10:21:33] messerting: I've seen several posts about this, but don't quite understand how to work around it
[10:21:59] messerting: this is on a Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7200
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[10:28:59] justinh: Rrrrr. can't work out this scaling issue
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[10:29:48] justinh: ooo.. thought of a way I can save space for icons :-)
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[10:57:15] stuartm: great, libaacs build is broken
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[11:03:14] hownow: hi, I've just set up mythbuntu with a hauppauge hvr-1600. Channels scanned in fine, but when I go to "Watch TV" and select a channel to watch, all I get is a fuzzy picture
[11:03:23] hownow: it displays the correct network name though
[11:03:29] hownow: QAM by the way
[11:04:09] justinh: define 'fuzzy picture'
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[11:04:54] hownow: black/white noise with some color added
[11:05:07] hownow: definitely not showing anything recognizable
[11:05:54] justinh: not what I'd call fuzzy then :-)
[11:06:15] justinh: doesn't sound like the kind of thing you should be seeing with a digital signal anyway
[11:06:25] justinh: so... all bets are on an incorrect setup
[11:06:48] justinh: i.e. chosen the wrong type of capture card in mythtv-setup
[11:07:24] hownow: what should be the correct type for QAM hvr-1600?
[11:07:30] hownow: I think I selected DVB
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[11:08:24] justinh: you think.. or do you *know* ? :-)
[11:08:35] hownow: heh checking now
[11:10:16] hownow: yeah DVB ATSC
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[11:11:52] hownow: okay I see now in the wiki it should be IVTV
[11:12:13] hownow: or not actually since I want ATSC
[11:12:42] banksy: Anyone out there with knowledge of debugging aspect ratios – I'm now getting black bars either side of the internal player since upgrading from 0.23 + fixes to 0.23.1
[11:12:48] justinh: no, ivtv is for analogue
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[11:27:44] stuartm: banksy: check your aspect ratio setting in Appearance > 2nd page
[11:33:43] hownow: any ideas? just getting static ;/
[11:49:10] banksy: staurtm: Video Aspect Override is Off. Zoom is Auto Detect. No form of scaling or Displacement set. All other menus in myth are fullscreen, just internal player that's putting the black bars either side. VLC playback of same media goes fullscreen
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[12:06:46] justinh: banksy: what aspect ratio is the source material?
[12:07:22] justinh: banksy: if you're trying to play 4:3 material on a wider aspect screen – like 16:9 myth will always letterbox by default AFAIK
[12:07:55] justinh: always, unless you configure it to do otherwise I mean
[12:13:23] justinh: and yes, VLC will always bork the aspect ratio :-)
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[12:19:17] stuartm: banksy: "Appearance > 2nd page" Monitor Aspect Ratio
[12:19:26] stuartm: please make sure it's correct for your display
[12:20:09] stuartm: banksy: ffmpeg -i <videofile> will give the DAR, the Display aspect ratio for that video
[12:24:58] justinh: gah, get this theme looking fine at 16:9 but it won't scale right to a 4:3 res.. get the spacing & placement ok for 4:3 & it looks wrong at 16:9. I HATE YOU, INTEL
[12:25:42] stuartm: justinh: to be fair, that's why we have themes for 16:9 and themes for 4:3 :)
[12:25:46] justinh: why can't they just give us a widescreen mode for tv-out – even if it's just something hacked up
[12:25:59] justinh: but a 4:3 theme on a 16:9 display just looks.. cack
[12:26:45] stuartm: justinh: I used to use widescreen themes at 720x576 all the time
[12:27:04] stuartm: looked perfectly fine on a widescreen tv
[12:27:05] justinh: so did I
[12:27:23] justinh: still do, but in this theme I'm doing it fair messes up placement & spacing
[12:27:28] banksy: I'm in Australia, the source material is either OTA TV, ripped DVDs or downloads. I don't have letterbox effect, I have pillarbox
[12:27:56] stuartm: again that's normal for 4:3 on a 16:9 screen
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[12:28:45] stuartm: but we're missing fundamental details, e.g. what is your TV's aspect ratio and what aspect ratio is the video? (ffmpeg -i for the latter)
[12:28:55] justinh: I know it's all an unavoidable side effect of mythui & qt but if we had nice wide modes instead of being stuck in 4:3 land...
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[12:29:24] justinh: with the intel driver I get 640x480 & 800x600 for tvout :(
[12:30:20] stuartm: banksy: and yes, you can force the aspect ratio if you really must have distorted video
[12:30:23] justinh: might look for a cheap nvidia card with s-video output & a pci-e riser on ebay
[12:30:34] stuartm: justinh: what's an unavoidable side effect of mythui?
[12:30:41] stuartm: justinh: that's broken
[12:30:55] banksy: I have 1920x1080 TV (also get problem when using 1366x768). Using nvidia 195.36.24
[12:31:02] stuartm: tv-out should permit PAL 720x576
[12:31:07] justinh: stuartm: gimme a couple of minutes & I'll show you a couple of screenshots
[12:31:20] stuartm: banksy: please run ffmpeg -i on one of the videos
[12:31:36] banksy: for sample video, ffmpeg returns (amongst others): Video: h264, yuv420p, 704x400, PAR 89:88 DAR 89:50
[12:32:20] stuartm: ok, that is 16:9
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[12:33:48] stuartm: banksy: what does "mythfrontend -G XineramaMonitorAspectRatio -v none" give?
[12:35:56] banksy: stuartm: it printed about 30 of these: Calling appendChild() on a null node does nothing.
[12:36:07] banksy: and then Settings Value : XineramaMonitorAspectRatio = 1.3333
[12:36:40] stuartm: banksy: ok, your monitor is configured as a 4:3 device, you need to change that and then see what happens
[12:37:05] stuartm: try mythfrontend -O XineramaMonitorAspectRatio=1.7777
[12:37:15] justinh: stuartm: maybe it's just me – bad design
[12:38:35] stuartm: justinh: there is a known pixel rounding bug that's especially nasty with buttonlists, no-one has exactly figured out a solution, but even so you should get almost perfect placement
[12:39:17] justinh: just rescaled an 800x600 screenshot to 1280x720 to compare it against a real 1280x720 shot & the spacing is all to pot
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[12:40:01] justinh: strangely though, the icons are in the right place
[12:40:21] justinh: almost a safe assumption to say it's qt's font metrics at play
[12:40:52] justinh: http://imagebin.ca/view/FWtFxGz.html is 800x600
[12:41:50] justinh: looks ok I think but then compare the spacing between icons & text in http://imagebin.ca/view/cbmY1awz.html
[12:41:57] banksy: stuartm: tried that, same result – still get the pillarboxes. This might be a clue, but I'm using mythtbuntu widescreen theme, and even since the 0.23.1 upgrade, the home page appears stretched horizontally a fraction.
[12:43:50] stuartm: what does xrandr say?
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[12:44:22] justinh: stuartm: and then on scaling the 800x600 shot to 1280x720 – the icon placing looks about right but the text is wildy off. Guess I'll have to live with this til I have a way of outputting true 16:9
[12:44:28] justinh: http://imagebin.ca/img/H3diE3.jpg
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[12:48:39] justinh: wait a sec.. looks like the text isn't squished anamorphically.. curses
[12:49:02] jduggan_: cherry has a baby
[12:49:10] jduggan_: haha i watched that last night with the gf
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[12:49:24] justinh: started watching it last night too, til ours kicked off
[12:49:52] stuartm: justinh: yeah, it's stretched, but that iirc can usually be fixed by using the correct physical dimensions in the xorg.conf, at least I think I remember that right
[12:50:04] stuartm: I've not had to use TV-out for a while now
[12:50:14] justinh: stuartm: prolly another thing *buntu decides to override
[12:50:46] justinh: think I still have something to force a DISPLAYSIZE in mine on my frontend
[12:51:01] justinh: I'll definitely check that.. might well have overlooked it
[12:51:21] justinh: my frontend isn't on right now.. meaning my wife could well be watching daytime TV :-O
[12:51:38] justinh: FFS, no wonder new mothers are at risk of post natal depression
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[12:53:12] justinh: ahem. anyhoo.. wonder if I can force a DPI hack on this nxserver
[12:53:49] justinh: seem to have a vague recollection of mythfrontend being able to do it
[12:55:22] justinh: and whut.. google autocomplete.. "intel tv ... wizard" ?
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[13:12:06] rooaus: Say bye bye to HDCP... http://pastebin.com/kqD56TmU (maybe)
[13:14:09] justinh: quick! somebody tell Neo
[13:15:09] ** gavinp waves **
[13:15:18] gavinp: so, i still have my periodic recordings are very very short problem
[13:15:35] justinh: paste it into a file, chmod +x on the file.. run it... it prints "you phail!"... Put $5 on it
[13:16:14] justinh: very very short as in what... a few bytes instead of nice big multi-megabyte files?
[13:16:38] gavinp: justinh, about 12–25megabytes, vs. 8gig;/hr
[13:16:53] gavinp: it's very odd: I either get a super short recording like that, or I get a perfect recording
[13:16:57] justinh: yeah that smacks of recording problems
[13:17:00] justinh: see your backend log
[13:17:14] gavinp: i can paste it, but it doesn't look to w3eird to me
[13:17:18] justinh: I've seen a few of those in the past – think it was a kernel/driver problem
[13:17:35] gavinp: http://www.pastebin.ca/1939987
[13:17:48] gavinp: So I had a bad network driver, I replaced that, but the problem didn't go away
[13:17:53] gavinp: swapped out every network cable, didn't go away
[13:18:00] gavinp: this morning i killed another process runnign on the backend
[13:18:16] justinh: oo selective log pasting again
[13:18:17] gavinp: this process was a program that made lots of network connections and did lots of async transmissions on those connections
[13:18:26] gavinp: was that too selective? which way should I enlarge it?
[13:18:43] justinh: like around the time it makes a recorded file which is too small
[13:19:13] gavinp: Thomas & Friends: "Slips and Trips!" is such a recording
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[13:21:38] justinh: is this over firewire?
[13:21:52] gavinp: no, i have an HDHomeRun
[13:22:08] justinh: I've seen a very similar problem with my dvb-t tuners
[13:22:19] justinh: not for a few weeks though
[13:22:26] justinh: I changed a few things since then
[13:22:29] gavinp: it's quite frustrating to me, with north american TV starting soon
[13:22:37] justinh: 1. stopped using ubuntu packages of mythtv
[13:22:38] gavinp: I am hoping killing this network connection heavy program I mentioned might do it
[13:22:48] gavinp: that program was using tons of network connections, all asyncronously
[13:22:59] justinh: 2. took out a line in my grub config to give me vmalloc=256
[13:23:39] justinh: well yeah if network traffic is compromised & your tuners rely on it...
[13:23:53] gavinp: precisely
[13:24:08] gavinp: it'd be nice to be able too run it though
[13:24:11] gavinp: but at least that would give me some traction
[13:24:25] ** justinh doesn't use BitTorrent :-) **
[13:24:40] justinh: nor Seti@Home.. nor any other such junk
[13:25:07] gavinp: i did not say i was using that program you mentioned
[13:25:31] gavinp: it's just, you know, a program that opens lots of network connections, and asyncronously sends and receives on some subset of the hundreds of connections it maintains.
[13:25:49] justinh: whatever
[13:26:12] justinh: if you value your traffic integrity maybe find some way around it.. like give it its own interface
[13:28:06] gavinp: another data point: this failure never happens with live TV
[13:28:11] gavinp: dunno if that's relevant or interesting
[13:30:51] gavinp: if it turns out it was this other network program, i suppose udp_rmem_min is a possible suspect
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[13:36:33] justinh: maybe give your pvr system its own independent network :-)
[13:37:06] justinh: then whatever the 'other' network program abuses your network with it won't affect your mythtv system :)
[13:37:38] gavinp: it's possible. although nothing here is supremely resource intensive, so they should be able to play nice
[13:37:45] gavinp: i guess i'll know by end of day if this other program was the problem
[13:38:03] justinh: yup. doesn't cost you anything but time to find out :)
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[13:38:31] justinh: my wife's citrix connection to her workplace fairly hammers my home network
[13:39:18] justinh: the times I've rsynced massive files between boxes on a network connection it's usually impacted playback of recordings
[13:39:38] justinh: that was when I decided to find out about rate-limiting rsync
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[14:10:04] stuartm: I wonder why no-one has ever submitted arabic translations
[14:10:43] GreyFoxx: I thought someone had once
[14:10:49] GreyFoxx: or said they were going to
[14:11:41] GreyFoxx: I'd love to see screenshots of myth with non ascii/latin based languages
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[14:12:32] justinh: wasn't there a whole load of rtl stuff submitted a while ago?
[14:12:39] GreyFoxx: yeah
[14:12:56] justinh: sometime around the point there was that 'friendly fork'
[14:13:18] justinh: must be going back a couple of years come to think
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[14:15:13] iamlindoro: We definitely have many Israeli users, where is that translation?
[14:15:16] stuartm: there was a fork based on various arabic and middle-east related patches, some were submitted upstream although nothing we've ended up keeping
[14:15:46] stuartm: but the translations and anything useful, like freq tables have never been submitted
[14:16:16] stuartm: the fribidi stuff was a momentary nuisance, since we always knew that the port to mythui would fix it
[14:16:32] stuartm: iamlindoro: some RTL themes wouldn't hurt
[14:16:41] justinh: their loss, I figure.. it's not that mythtv is 'anti'
[14:16:51] iamlindoro: Wonder if it might be worth polling the users list for "If you live in a country without a specific frequency table, which one are you using that works?"
[14:17:16] iamlindoro: stuartm, I actually wondered if it might be possible to have an RTL mode that swaps the X axis on the way themes are interpreted
[14:17:32] iamlindoro: so that 0,0 is top right
[14:17:34] stuartm: iamlindoro: just a general call to arms wouldn't hurt, I need to make more people aware of the locale stuff before the 0.24 release
[14:17:36] justinh: if anything I like to think open source software transcends race & politics
[14:18:14] stuartm: iamlindoro: that would be interesting
[14:18:28] gavinp: iamlindoro: the driver didn't fix my short recordings
[14:18:33] gavinp: not did a cable swap on all cables
[14:18:37] iamlindoro: gavinp, bummer
[14:18:43] gavinp: i did now kill another network heavy program on the backend machine
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[14:18:55] gavinp: perhaps that willl do it? udp memory pressure or who knows?
[14:18:58] gavinp: *shrug*
[14:18:59] justinh: iamlindoro: heh.. then you could just about use inkscape as a theme editor
[14:19:15] iamlindoro: justinh, Except 0,0 in inkscape is bottom left
[14:19:23] justinh: doh
[14:19:32] stuartm: it's the y axis in inkscape which is flipped
[14:19:48] justinh: time to lament my lack of time.. I coulda done things with my transformation tricks
[14:19:51] stuartm: they think they're drawing graphs
[14:19:56] kenni: stuartm: does that mean that you'll still accept updates for the locale stuff for 0.24?
[14:20:48] iamlindoro: Would be nice, if for example the UK frequency table works in israel, to actually have an "Israel" label for the table
[14:20:50] gavinp: the todo on my list is to allow for running multiple installs of myth on the same machine easily
[14:20:58] iamlindoro: rather than just making the default frequency table UK for .il
[14:21:00] gavinp: i never get around to hacking at myth though
[14:21:03] stuartm: kenni: yes, since they won't really break anything and lots of new users will benefit
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[14:21:26] kenni: cool, I'll do one for dk then
[14:21:30] stuartm: iamlindoro: indeed
[14:22:09] stuartm: ideally we'd have a full compliment of locale configs at the release
[14:23:18] stuartm: at least for the top 20 or so countries by number of mythtv users
[14:23:50] kenni: ...do we have such numbers? :)
[14:24:31] iamlindoro: Only anecdotally
[14:24:36] justinh: downloads != users ;-)
[14:25:17] justinh: boxee, on the other hand.. they prolly know all their user metrics.. and viewing habits.. down to a tee
[14:25:28] justinh: but some might consider that a bit.. evil
[14:25:55] stuartm: unfortunately not, but I'm guessing most of central/western europe, north america, Australia, New Zealand, a few eastern european countries and maybe one or two in east Asia
[14:28:00] hownow: getting * Unknown zip code or Tribune error; please try another and/or try again later. when I try to add a zipcode for lineup in schedules direct...is this normal?
[14:28:20] gavinp: i've found user uploaded metrics invaluable on chrome
[14:28:26] gavinp: learned a lot about bottlenecks and perf in the wild
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[14:29:14] stuartm: still evil to gather metrics without explicit user consent
[14:29:20] gavinp: we do not do that
[14:29:24] gavinp: and noone should, i agree
[14:29:29] stuartm: I didn't say that you did :)
[14:29:42] gavinp: i know; i just wanted to amplify that we don't... forgive me my affectation
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[14:37:07] stuartm: I'm all for an entirely voluntarily metrics gathering for mythtv, that would be extremely useful, jams smolt stuff was a great effort although ultimately doomed precisely because it relied on smolt
[14:37:45] stuartm: we need something with no outside dependencies and which doesn't gather more than we really need to know to make informed decisions
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[14:38:37] kenni: btw, talking about localization; I submitted a update for the danish DVB-T frequency table 5 weeks ago, since the current didn't cover all broadcasts (#8758). Essentially, I switched over from using specific settings to using "Auto", but apparently the "Auto" setting is hardware dependent, rendering my patch useless. One way to solve this could be to have MythTV use the "Auto" capability if available and otherwise fall back to some custom algo
[14:39:08] jams: bah..smolt is included with the plugin
[14:39:20] jams: it's not really an outside dep at all
[14:39:50] stuartm: jams: ok, I didn't realise that
[14:40:13] jams: =)
[14:40:17] gavinp: http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/s . . . ;view=markup
[14:40:23] gavinp: stuartm, check out DumpLoadHistograms in that file
[14:40:30] gavinp: you'll see a lot of what chrome's stats gathering does
[14:40:46] gavinp: simple histograms with predefined buckets
[14:44:33] jams: stuartm- I to am for voluntarily submissions, but there is a big gap between downloads and submitted data. I would have thought the two would be at least somewhat close but that hasn't proven to be the case.
[14:45:19] justinh: for the record I don't think boxee do it without users' permission either – but I do wonder how many people actually read everything they click 'agree' to ;-)
[14:45:40] gavinp: it's my appreciation that users will click anything to make a modal dialogue go away
[14:45:49] btwe is now known as btwe_afk
[14:46:05] gavinp: "CLICK HERE TO TRANSFER EVERYTHING OUT OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND MAKE THIS WINDOW GO AWAY"
[14:46:08] gavinp: people will click on it
[14:51:33] stuartm: yep, which is why I'd make it a page under the settings or similar, users wouldn't even have to look at it if they didn't want to and by default it highlight 'No', everything designed to make it a deliberate and informed choice by the user
[14:51:46] stuartm: but not to make it unnecessarily difficult
[14:52:17] gavinp: that's the right choice
[14:52:17] gavinp: yes
[14:53:39] gavinp: something like "Help make MythTV better by uploading anonymous performance and use statistics together with data on crashes"
[14:54:02] gavinp: also, make any stats gathered viewable from within the ui, whether the user is uploading or not
[14:54:23] gavinp: also, for mythtv, it's probably good to make sure aggregate stats are available to people who want access, although probably behind some kind of account guard.
[14:56:00] iamlindoro: Make sure to send out that request in-reply-to the thread bitching about google big brother data gathering
[14:56:19] gavinp: i'll stay well clear of that
[14:56:47] bjd_: i'm not sure how useful it'd be tbh
[14:57:09] gavinp: knowing where the player tends to fail might be interesting
[14:57:27] iamlindoro: That's not the kind of data we're talking about gathering
[14:58:36] iamlindoro: Language, locale, hardware in use, kernel, distro, some driver info, and perhaps a small number of non-private settings values
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[15:02:18] ** jams has lost his kvm **
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[15:06:18] bjd_: how careless!
[15:06:26] jams: yeah it is
[15:06:38] jams: it's somewhere in a box, just have to find it again
[15:06:47] justinh: yeh well, some services require you to sign away your right to privacy on signup.. like those progs you can't use without signing up.. mentioning no names ;)
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[15:09:16] stuartm: some don't ask you to sign away your rights, they just follow the mantra "If you've got something to hide, then you must be a doing something bad"
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[15:11:19] stuartm: although they also keep their board room decisions, company financials, special projects, political 'contributions' and activities, plus much, much more hidden, so they must be very evil indeed
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[15:19:35] Beirdo: stuartm: nice ticket reclassification spam :)
[15:19:36] Beirdo: heh
[15:20:27] stuartm: I thought people would enjoy it :)
[15:21:05] Beirdo: glad someone did it though, and it's a good reminder to set the milestone when closing :)
[15:21:08] stuartm: all bug tickets closed by fixing in the last 4 months which weren't assigned a milestone
[15:21:19] stuartm: there are still 50 or so left
[15:21:43] stuartm: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/query?status=close . . . der=priority
[15:23:05] Beirdo: yeah, we need to learn from our mistakes :)
[15:23:07] stuartm: I figured that if Daniel was going to base some sort of measure of achievement on the number of tickets closed in each cycle then we need accurate counts and it turns out that the 0.24 count is ~100 tickets short of where it should be
[15:23:47] Beirdo: yup
[15:24:36] Beirdo: I'm sure there's more that had version != Trunk Head too
[15:24:55] stuartm: Beirdo: aye, that report was just a place to start
[15:24:59] Beirdo: ones that got reported a while back, tc
[15:25:27] stuartm: there will have been many more which were opened before the 0.23 released, so created > 4 months ago
[15:26:16] Beirdo: yeah, a little harder to classify for 0.24 vs 0.23-fixes, etc
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[15:31:05] Beirdo: time to run
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[15:51:32] ** iamlindoro wonders why people seem not to be seeing the fact that even if you have access to the raw HDMI feed, there is little to nothing you can do with it @ 1.5 Gbit/s without (ie, can't stuff the genie back in the bottle/get the raw compressed data back) **
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[15:52:13] wagnerrp: wtf... not only did he spam the wiki, he had to go back a second time and correct himself? http://mythtv.org/wiki?title=Myth_video_scan. . . . tion=history
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[16:18:26] wagnerrp: well thats awfully screwy
[16:18:41] wagnerrp: the dvico dual tuner is two completely separate tuners
[16:18:56] justinh: hmm?
[16:19:08] wagnerrp: one is PCI and works by plugging the card into the slot. the other is USB, and you have to connect it to a header on your motherboard
[16:19:16] justinh: blech
[16:19:48] justinh: still, I guess it does what it says on the tin, one way or another
[16:20:08] justinh: the irony is prolly that the PCI part of it is also a USB tuner
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[16:22:54] justinh: hey, wasn't some guy on the -users ML saying he'd actually like a USB tuner you could mount inside the case?
[16:23:17] wagnerrp: cant you do that with... all of them?
[16:23:58] justinh: well you could.. if you could only figure out how to do it ;)
[16:24:18] wagnerrp: seems pretty simple to me
[16:24:27] wagnerrp: mount it to a spare side of the case
[16:24:47] wagnerrp: drill a hole on the back side, and install a coaxial line to the tuner
[16:24:55] wagnerrp: repeat
[16:24:58] justinh: if only somebody made cables to go from motherboard headers to actual USB sockets though...
[16:25:15] wagnerrp: perhaps find a DC powered amp to mount internally
[16:25:23] justinh: and if only there was some kind of substance available to firmly but not permanently secure things in position
[16:25:53] justinh: I guess we'll just have to wait for tech to advance some more to make it all possible ;-)
[16:26:00] wagnerrp: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index. . . . cts_id=22292
[16:26:17] wagnerrp: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index. . . . cts_id=25330
[16:26:18] justinh: made me laugh when I read the guy comment that USB connectors 'break easily'
[16:26:54] justinh: yeah, I've lost count the number of USB devices I've broken by shearing off the USB plug
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[16:28:44] n0tk: really?
[16:28:55] cipher42: Did myth change "component" input to "television" for the hdpvr?
[16:28:59] justinh: </sarcasm>
[16:29:17] cipher42: it used to let me choose component but now don't see it
[16:29:29] wagnerrp: cipher42: pretty sure mythtv just enumerates the inputs exposed by the driver
[16:29:37] justinh: citing a lack of robustness isn't really an argument against USB tuners IMHO ;-)
[16:30:03] n0tk: I have yet to break a usb connector
[16:30:11] wagnerrp: justinh: ive killed a number of usb devices and connectors
[16:30:26] justinh: sure they might lack mechanical retention – the pull of a stiff coax cable etc.. but I think you've gotta go some to snap a USB plug orf
[16:30:32] n0tk: the only time I've had problems is when I zap them with static
[16:30:34] wagnerrp: cast front panel too close to my legs... <snap>
[16:30:58] justinh: I've broken a couple of USB sticks.. left them in my pockets & they went through the wash.. case came apart
[16:30:58] sid3windr: I nearly killed a bt stick with my feet
[16:31:02] wagnerrp: broken two flash drives, and several front panel connector modules
[16:31:04] sid3windr: it was in one of the front usb port..:)
[16:31:05] n0tk: but I've always been careful
[16:31:07] sid3windr: but it still works
[16:31:19] sid3windr: the usb connector just isnt straight on anymore
[16:31:20] sid3windr: :p
[16:31:23] justinh: yeh well if you leave stuff sticking out where it gets in the way ;-)
[16:31:37] wagnerrp: i had this cool little SD card with built in USB port
[16:31:40] wagnerrp: snapped it in half
[16:31:45] justinh: which is why I didn't go for a car stereo with a front facing USB port :-)
[16:32:01] wagnerrp: had to get a pair of pliers to fish the second half out of the port
[16:32:39] sid3windr: hehe
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[16:44:53] wagnerrp: so was the google thread triggered by the xkcd comic?
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[16:52:17] gavinp: good news; no short recordings since i killed that other networking program.
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[16:54:10] wagnerrp: not sure how some 'other networking program' could have caused problems with an HDHR
[16:54:35] wagnerrp: unless it was either running several MB/s throughput and causing congestion on the network
[16:54:48] wagnerrp: or youve got broken drivers
[16:54:57] sid3windr: or "iptables"
[16:54:58] sid3windr: :D
[16:55:09] sid3windr: was going to say zonealarm but that wouldn't fit
[16:55:11] gavinp: wagnerrp, neither do i. it was using hundreds of sockets though and asyncronously receiving data ont hem.
[16:55:28] gavinp: i have so far tried replacing all cables, updating the drivers on the backend machine
[16:55:49] gavinp: i updated to a newer version of mythbuntu (i was at a pretty recent revision before though)
[16:55:53] wagnerrp: any linux machine in the last 15 years should have no problem with that kind of traffic
[16:55:54] ** gavinp shrugs. **
[16:56:00] gavinp: wagnerrp, i concur completely.
[16:56:10] wagnerrp: ive only ever heard problems on cheap routers, with SPI
[16:56:19] gavinp: I wish I had a better clue why my backend machine was problematic
[16:56:36] wagnerrp: too many sockets, too many IPs
[16:56:40] wagnerrp: it fills up the state tables
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[16:57:00] gavinp: it may well, or it may have simply exausted UDP mem to the point that the recvbufs were at the 4k minimum
[16:57:18] gavinp: just as commflagging starts up, the recorder isn't scheduled for a bit and misses three packets
[16:57:20] gavinp: *blammo* a drop
[16:57:27] wagnerrp: but even then, im not sure why you would be using iptables if youve got a router doing NAT
[16:57:27] gavinp: that's my theory now, but i have _zarro_ debugging to support it
[16:57:37] gavinp: i am not using iptables
[16:57:43] gavinp: these are two machines on a switch with each other
[16:57:59] gavinp: if you have any suggestions on instrumentation, by all means, please share them with me
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[17:05:18] gavinp: wagnerrpp, do you have anything constructive? I am fairly puzzled too.
[17:05:34] gavinp: i'm also kind of blown away that myth can stop receiving from an HDHomeRun, and not report an error message.
[17:06:09] wagnerrp: myth's handling of failed recordings and hardware leaves something to be desired
[17:06:35] gavinp: surely you could jump through more hoops to make an HDHR work than just failing silently on an unlogged error.
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[17:06:42] gavinp: oh wells
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[17:25:59] Beirdo: gavinp: it's on the queue of things to be looked at. I get failed recordings, they annoy me... others do too :)
[17:26:09] Beirdo: we'll get there eventually
[17:26:21] wagnerrp: its just a very large queue
[17:26:21] gavinp: no doubt. i shouldn't whine too much, i'm not contributing.
[17:26:26] wagnerrp: and new features are more fun
[17:26:27] wagnerrp: :)
[17:26:37] Beirdo: wagnerrp: heh, for some. :)
[17:26:55] Beirdo: I actually find killing nasty bugs to be very rewarding
[17:27:20] gavinp: i kinda like making an existing system super flexible
[17:27:34] gavinp: today i'm working on disk cache for chrome; hoping to make it totally concurrent
[17:27:43] gavinp: there's some neat corner cases around stalls, user initiated reloads, etc...
[17:27:46] wagnerrp: i have no known bugs, all my tickets are closed... :)
[17:28:09] gavinp: does anyone hack at mythtv for pay?
[17:28:10] Beirdo: gavinp: you have any ongoing contact with Nikita, etc from the CSC days?
[17:28:18] gavinp: beirdo, yeah. nikita just had twins.
[17:28:20] Beirdo: I keep seeing their names on interesting things :)
[17:28:21] gavinp: did you hear about his cancer?
[17:28:25] wagnerrp: gavinp: it has been done in the past
[17:28:32] Beirdo: no. Cancer. wow
[17:28:33] wagnerrp: various features were written on contract
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[17:28:44] gavinp: yeah, testicular. he's fully recovered, but two bouts of chemo
[17:28:49] gavinp: nikita is doing well these days
[17:28:58] wagnerrp: multirec and the frontend telnet control for instance
[17:29:02] gavinp: we went sailing in maine for a week last summer, and meet up in california pretty often
[17:29:06] Beirdo: ouchy. Well good to know he's better
[17:29:12] wagnerrp: at least he had the kids before the cancer
[17:29:16] gavinp: after
[17:29:18] gavinp: he had the kids after
[17:29:25] wagnerrp: oh? well then hes certainly fixed
[17:29:31] Beirdo: wow. that's definitely recovery :)
[17:29:34] gavinp: i think there might have been a freezer involved
[17:29:54] wagnerrp: that would explain the twins
[17:29:59] gavinp: yeah
[17:30:06] wagnerrp: usually end up with more when going that route
[17:30:10] gavinp: so Nikita and his wife are Athiests.
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[17:30:15] gavinp: (capital A intentional)
[17:30:21] gavinp: but they named there kids Tavi and Tovah
[17:30:27] gavinp: err, their
[17:30:36] Beirdo: the good ole days. When people complain about elitism in the channel (here and elsewhere)... I flash back to going to the CSC orifice in the math building
[17:30:38] wagnerrp: i dont know the significance of that
[17:30:39] Beirdo: heh
[17:30:39] gavinp: they are going to LOVE correcting all the misapprehensions _that_ causes.
[17:31:01] gavinp: wagnerrp: those are really jewishy/isaeli sounding names
[17:31:21] Beirdo: getting lambasted for not doing things "the right way" is fun
[17:31:22] Beirdo: heh
[17:31:39] wagnerrp: doing the lambasting is more fun
[17:31:45] gavinp: The CSC was awful. i have no idea why i spent so much time there.
[17:32:10] Beirdo: the nearly free (essentially) UNIX shell account would be one
[17:32:16] Beirdo: one reason :)
[17:32:20] gavinp: yeah
[17:32:33] gavinp: Ian Goldberg had a weird growth in his brain
[17:32:36] gavinp: did you hear about that?
[17:32:40] gavinp: he's faculty at waterloo now
[17:32:45] Beirdo: no, but doesn't surprise me
[17:32:54] Beirdo: he's back at UW? nice :)
[17:32:56] gavinp: he was about to get chemo of some kind, and at the last minute they found out it was bacterial
[17:33:06] gavinp: the chemo would probably have killed him through suppressing his white cells
[17:33:24] gavinp: he had double vision for a long time and other sensory problems
[17:33:25] Beirdo: the smart people tend to get whacked with the oddest calamities
[17:33:38] gavinp: Ka-Ping works at google in mountain view
[17:33:46] gavinp: he's very vocal on internal mailing lists
[17:33:51] Beirdo: heh
[17:34:02] Beirdo: oooh, THAT's what I gave you crap about
[17:34:05] Beirdo: I remember now
[17:34:12] gavinp: christ, do i want to remember?
[17:34:18] Beirdo: Ka-Ping's kanji server taking down calum
[17:34:26] gavinp: that kanji server was the awesome
[17:34:27] Beirdo: ahh, yes, those were the days :)
[17:34:30] gavinp: but yeah, it always took down calum
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[17:34:44] Beirdo: it was, but it was kinda not a good fit for a shared box :)
[17:35:03] gavinp: it didn't work out as well as it could have
[17:35:09] Beirdo: yeah
[17:36:14] Beirdo: I'm getting nostalgic for UW. Took me almost 15 years, but I wish I were back there
[17:36:17] Beirdo: heh
[17:36:37] gavinp: i dropped out after two years
[17:36:43] gavinp: i really think i missed a lot
[17:36:46] gavinp: shoulda stayed
[17:36:52] gavinp: oh wells
[17:36:59] gavinp: so, the machine getting short recordings?
[17:37:05] gavinp: small, nonzero UDP receive error count.
[17:37:15] gavinp: if the short recording recurs, i'll track if UDP receive error increments
[17:37:23] sphery: Beirdo: heh, so I haven't read any articles on it, and this is based on the TDP number posted on -users list, but it looks like Intel dropped the ball on Sandy Bridge, possibly so it doesn't kill the market for Atom--they quote a 73W TDP
[17:37:35] Beirdo: 73W?!
[17:37:44] sphery: compared to AMD's 9W or 18W for Bulldozer, that's, er, a lot
[17:37:44] Beirdo: vs the 3W for their latest Atom.
[17:38:15] Beirdo: sorry. 3.3W
[17:38:17] sphery: yeah, Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer are the "fusion", er, "bridging", of a CPU and GPU into a single package
[17:38:39] Beirdo: so is the latest Atom
[17:38:44] sphery: really
[17:38:50] Beirdo: Yup
[17:38:51] stuartm: Beirdo: 3.3W isn't accurate
[17:39:04] sphery: so they're going with the same crippled CPU core in their version
[17:39:14] Beirdo: stuartm: that's right out of an email from Intel I got this morning
[17:39:16] stuartm: since unlike AMD's offering it doesn't include the north bridge which is normally very power-hungry
[17:39:18] sphery: and the Sandy Bridge is their "desktop" version
[17:39:20] Beirdo: take it up with Intel :)
[17:39:29] Beirdo: yes it does
[17:39:33] sphery: AMD is doing what it always has--it'
[17:39:37] Beirdo: This next-generation Intel® Atomâ„¢ processor is a System-on-Chip that combines an Intel® Atomâ„¢ processor core, advanced 2D/3D graphics controller core, DDR2 memory controller and I/O functions all with a low maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 3.3W.
[17:39:48] sphery: s saying there's no need for a distinction between desktop and low-power cores
[17:40:06] stuartm: Beirdo: huh, that's new then
[17:40:23] Beirdo: I was surprised myself
[17:40:29] Beirdo: anyways...
[17:40:54] Beirdo: gavinp: not sure what to suggest, but I think you are on the right troubleshooting path at least
[17:41:06] sphery: anyway, from what you say and the 73W quoted on the list, it sounds like Intel isn't admitting that there's no need for low-power to mean low-performance
[17:41:12] sphery: oh, well, that's good for AMD
[17:41:41] sphery: when your choice is an Atom core versus an Athlon II-performance core in your low-power device...
[17:41:56] Beirdo: heh
[17:42:14] Beirdo: I'd probably pick the Athlon unless I *needed* 3W
[17:42:19] sphery: of course, Intel did the same with x86_64
[17:42:35] sphery: well, the 9W vs 3W...
[17:42:44] sphery: and 9W includes GPU, etc.
[17:43:08] sphery: is the 3.3W the current Atom or the future SoC one?
[17:43:19] Beirdo: future/current SoC
[17:43:35] Beirdo: just announced today, so I guess really future
[17:44:07] sphery: hmmm
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[17:49:59] wagnerrp: is the atom just dirt cheap to produce?
[17:50:29] sphery: good questions
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[18:17:13] Beirdo: I think AMD should come out with a "Molecule" processor
[18:17:37] wagnerrp: slightly larger, so much more capable?
[18:17:49] Beirdo: heh
[18:17:51] Beirdo: yeah
[18:19:39] Beirdo: hmm
[18:19:49] ** Beirdo considers a hack for the preview generator **
[18:20:11] Beirdo: if the source height is 1088, use the top 1080 pixels for generation
[18:20:29] Beirdo: my previews have green bars on the bottom from HDPVR recordings
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[18:25:10] sphery: Beirdo: TTBOMK, that's only an issue in some (H.264) images, so it needs to be fixed where it's broken
[18:27:58] sphery: but I can't find the commit that mentioned the green bar...
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[18:31:02] Beirdo: well, that's why I say a hack
[18:31:03] Beirdo: heh
[18:31:18] Beirdo: we can fix it properly later, I'm just tired of seeing it on my system
[18:32:17] ** iamlindoro shudders at "we can fix it properly later" **
[18:32:43] iamlindoro: You mean the next entire complement of myth devs can fix it in eight years and wonder WTF was going on ;)
[18:32:52] Beirdo: heh
[18:33:01] Beirdo: no, I mean my hack will be local
[18:33:07] Beirdo: not committed to trunk
[18:33:16] iamlindoro: Now that's a plan I can get behind :)
[18:33:20] iamlindoro: ;)
[18:33:21] Beirdo: once we figure out how to fix it right, we can fix it right :)
[18:33:42] Beirdo: until then, I'm gonna hack it locally, and if others want it, they can hunt me down
[18:33:45] Beirdo: heh
[18:34:01] AndyCap: ah, the most dangerous game.
[18:34:38] Beirdo: somehow playback doesn't have said green bar.. but previews do
[18:34:53] Beirdo: which is kinda annoying to me
[18:34:54] Beirdo: heh
[18:35:24] Beirdo: why is it that all the "crash" bugs come right at the last minute?
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[18:41:07] bthoo: I've spent some time reading forums and lists looking for information about using the UPnP server to stream live video. Can't always tell which info is current, but I believe this is unsupported? Is it on a future wish list?
[18:41:58] iamlindoro: Live TV is not supported via uPnP, I'm sure it's on lots of people's wish lists, but no developers that I know of planning to implement it
[18:43:25] wagnerrp: does UPnP actually have a standard way of informing devices of updated file size?
[18:43:41] wagnerrp: or do you just tell it the file is ridiculously large to start with?
[18:44:35] iamlindoro: dunno
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[18:46:58] bthoo: Seems like it could be done from another app that starts a myth recording then provides the video via another UPnP server?
[18:47:29] iamlindoro: That would not be an approach we would ever use
[18:47:39] iamlindoro: but sure, any number of spit and duct tape solutions are possible
[18:47:58] wagnerrp: some third party could implement it on their own, but it would never be anything official
[18:48:09] bthoo: I'm talking about a way to get it done if the Myth devs don't see it happening any time soon
[18:48:16] iamlindoro: hack away
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[18:48:37] wagnerrp: the protocol is fairly well documented
[18:48:50] wagnerrp: although starting a livetv session is something i havent done yet
[18:49:48] wagnerrp: been meaning to write a class for it, but its always been too complex for my willpower
[18:49:49] bthoo: Yep – I use XBMC for remote access on several machines, so I know things like starting a live stream are possible and the XBMC code is open...
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[18:50:13] wagnerrp: XBMC should not be used as a frontend until they start following the rules
[18:50:19] wagnerrp: and properly checking protocol and schema versions
[18:50:52] bthoo: But I also have a bunch of O!Plays sitting around and I would *love* to have live video available on those
[18:52:50] wagnerrp: i have to believe properly supporting livetv within the internal upnp server would be at least as easy as trying to implement it externally
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[18:54:32] bthoo: Other suggestions for a remote front end that runs on Windows and Linux with a 10 foot interface? I didn't realize XBMC wasn't playing by the rules, but it works nicely for me so far.
[18:55:20] wagnerrp: the mythbox plugin does right by the protocol, but it still ignores schema versions
[18:55:42] wagnerrp: but the mythbox plugin just hands off links to xbmc, which it runs internally
[18:55:50] wagnerrp: xbmc uses libcmyth, which is bad on all accounts
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[18:57:18] wagnerrp: as of a few months ago, xbmc suppport of trunk was completely broken
[18:58:13] bthoo: Maybe true about implementing internally the correct way. I've not even built MythTV from scratch in a couple of years, so I have a little fear about the size of the code base. But I should look before I start an obvious hack attempt.
[18:59:13] wagnerrp: cdev, and more recently Beirdo, have done tinkering with the upnp server, they would be the ones to ask about that
[19:00:43] bthoo: Last time I tried mythbox, I was having too many problems – often complete XBMC freezes. So, I just started using the XBMC Myth protocol and it has worked well for me. Sounds like I've been lucky though. I should at least look at more recent mythbox plugin versions.
[19:01:27] wagnerrp: you should avoid both until they start checking protocol and schema versions before accessing them
[19:04:03] bthoo: I really would be happy to avoid them both, but I don't know what to use instead? It needs to run on Linux and Windows and have a media center type interface.
[19:04:14] wagnerrp: mythfrontend
[19:04:32] bthoo: mythfrontend on Windows?
[19:04:36] wagnerrp: yep
[19:06:19] bthoo: Must be a different port than the 4 year old release of WinMythTV on SourceForge?
[19:06:34] wagnerrp: WinMyth != mythfrontend
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[19:08:05] Azelphur: my solution to mythfrontend on windows: VirtualBox
[19:08:09] Azelphur: hehe
[19:08:19] wagnerrp: better to just run mythfrontend compiled for windows
[19:08:32] wagnerrp: s/better/vastly better/
[19:08:42] Azelphur: I tried that, it didn't work :(
[19:08:48] Azelphur: every time I went to media library it just crashed
[19:09:00] Azelphur: figured maybe it doesn't work on windows 7
[19:09:06] iamlindoro: Works fine on Windows 7
[19:09:17] Azelphur: it hates me personally then :D
[19:09:35] bthoo: OK – I found the WIKI page on building for Windows. I'll have a look at that.
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[19:17:50] kisak: is mythtv able to interface with video on demand?
[19:18:08] wagnerrp: not well
[19:18:18] wagnerrp: not in any sort of automated fashion
[19:18:55] kisak: so an auxillary feed off a settop box with no channel info or channel changer
[19:19:48] wagnerrp: you would have to rig up your own mechanism for sending IR commands on the frontend, to the STB on the backend
[19:19:57] wagnerrp: you would have to use 'livetv' mode
[19:20:10] stuartm: what sort of video on demand? There are dozens of implementations, if not hundreds from online content to proprietary cable and satellite operator systems
[19:20:35] wagnerrp: and then you would have to deal with the control latency introduced by the STB, capture cards, and myth's network-based protocol
[19:20:35] kisak: in my case, verizon's fios VoD
[19:20:57] wagnerrp: as stuartm mentions, there are hundreds of different implementations, each with their own menu layout
[19:21:14] wagnerrp: so there is no way mythtv could implement any sort of intelligent control scheme
[19:21:19] wagnerrp: it all has to be done manually
[19:21:37] kisak: I was thinking of the basics, like catching a stream from a STB in that mode
[19:21:52] wagnerrp: youre at the same level as using 'livetv' mode to manually record off a VHS tape
[19:23:11] kisak: is there a way to add a channel to the set which would not use a channel changer
[19:23:59] kisak: I'd have to add a special case into the channel changer script
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[19:25:13] wagnerrp: no, you would have to write your own independent control scheme
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[19:25:27] wagnerrp: mythtv will only send channel numbers to the channel changer scripts
[19:26:58] wagnerrp: stuartm: could you make 'svg' a valid file upload type on the wiki?
[19:27:21] stuartm: wagnerrp: maybe, I'll look into it
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[19:27:57] wagnerrp: i think that one might actually take editing one of the config files
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[19:30:34] sphery: wagnerrp: no, mythtv sends freqid to the channel change scripts
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[19:30:42] sphery: meaning that users can edit channel number to be what they want
[19:30:52] sphery: and freqid to be what the channel change script needs
[19:31:09] sphery: (I didn't read scrollback, so ignore me if I missed something important)
[19:31:14] wagnerrp: sphery: semantics... its still no good for sending up/down/left/right
[19:31:23] kisak: so ... if I have a channel with no freqid, the channel changer would just quit
[19:31:27] sphery: oh, this is video on demand stuff
[19:31:32] wagnerrp: yep
[19:31:38] sphery: yeah, you'd have to "pre-program" your channel change script to know how to work it
[19:31:51] sphery: and then just have a vod channel(s) with appropriate freqids
[19:32:17] Beirdo: someone rang while I was off having lunch?
[19:32:28] kisak: I'd just pondering what it would take to capture a VoD show at all, not particularly automate it
[19:33:24] sphery: kisak: could just make a channel and when your channel change script gets that channel's freqid, you exit 0 (no error) and then use your STB remote to set up and start the VOD
[19:33:46] wagnerrp: Beirdo: someone wanting to do livetv over upnp, i told him he would have to look into the code and hack it in himself, and you would be one to look for help with upnp stuff
[19:33:55] sphery: either use a manual recording rule or Live TV (but note that Live TV recordings will be broken into 30min blocks, so not ideal if you plan to watch later)
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[19:34:21] Beirdo: ahh
[19:34:29] Beirdo: we can look at doing it post 0.25
[19:34:32] stuartm: kisak: there is no sort of menu to navigate? E.g. a list of available titles? I don't see how that could possibly be navigated blind
[19:34:49] Beirdo: but at the moment, I think we have enough on our plate for 0.25 as it is
[19:35:18] wagnerrp: Beirdo: certainly, unless someone external were to look at it in earnest, and produce a decent patch
[19:35:28] Beirdo: granted
[19:37:05] kisak: well, I believe that the firewire feed dies for a moment each time the video feed switches ... is this true? If so I would need to get the VoD show started before trying to get mythtv to catch it
[19:37:09] gavinp: so still no short recordings since i turned off this network intensive program
[19:37:21] gavinp: ... i guess tomorrow I'll run the test the other way
[19:37:58] gavinp: this network intensive program was making lots of connections, and running in wine, so it may have leaked resources? i dunno. it's pretty bad.
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[19:38:04] sphery: kisak: that would be possible with trunk/upcoming 0.24, thanks to the usage of the signal monitor with external channel change scripts
[19:38:40] sphery: that said, I know nothing of firewire, so I can't answer the "is this true"
[19:39:07] wagnerrp: somehow i doubt you could actually do VOD over firewire
[19:39:16] wagnerrp: you could probably stream the video once it started
[19:39:29] wagnerrp: but you wont be able to see the menus
[19:39:40] wagnerrp: so you wont be able to navigate to what you actually want to watch
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[19:40:13] kisak: that's my only HD solution at the moment, so it's the prefered capture solution
[19:40:15] wagnerrp: and thats assuming the feed doesnt shut down entirely and break your session as soon as you enter the menu
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[19:41:14] kisak: as for firewire missing menus, that would be good for me ... I have an auxillary capture method and a service/monitoring feed as well
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[19:41:54] kisak: so I could navigate the menu with the service feed while another frontend has the firewire feed grabbed
[19:41:55] sphery: if you don't need it automated, there's always the "switch inputs on the TV, set up the VOD, start MythTV recording (and miss the ads at the beginning or whatever)" approach (followed by hoping your STB actually outputs the VOD over firewire
[19:42:07] wagnerrp: so you would switch to analog capture, select and start the video, and then switch back to firewire? ... getting more and more complicated
[19:42:25] kisak: 2 frontends make that simple
[19:42:43] kisak: one on firewire, the other on the analog service feed
[19:42:56] wagnerrp: better would probably be a tv, a terminal, and a keyboard
[19:43:02] wagnerrp: use some external firewire capture tool
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[19:43:18] sphery: that may be the best
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[19:43:34] sphery: if you can't automate it, embrace the manual approach
[19:43:36] wagnerrp: and its not like youre going to have guide data for this thing anyway
[19:43:52] kisak: fair enough
[19:43:53] wagnerrp: better to just get a video file, stuff it in mythvideo, and pull metadata that way
[19:44:07] kisak: I have a frontend that could fit that role
[19:44:32] kisak: which has a STB beside it which is not tied into mythtv
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[19:45:15] skd5aner: sphery: looks like the CPU, Mobo, and RAM I'm looking at ~$350
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[19:45:35] kisak: I've discovered today that there are free VoD shows for channels I am not subscribed to
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[19:45:56] Beirdo: skd5aner: my potential replacement frontend is about $400 all in (before tax)
[19:46:17] wagnerrp: kisak: no, there are VOD sessions other people are already using, broadcast unencrypted
[19:46:20] sphery: skd5aner: that's not bad... about what I'd expect for Intel-based (good guess?)
[19:46:25] Beirdo: the backend's just short of a grand
[19:46:33] wagnerrp: its like TV voyeurism
[19:46:57] sphery: complete with all their pauses, rewinds, etc., right?
[19:47:02] wagnerrp: yep
[19:47:16] sphery: and almost surely a violation of ToS
[19:47:25] wagnerrp: doubtful
[19:47:46] kisak: now I'm confused, why would people want a dirty capture of a tv show?
[19:47:47] wagnerrp: youre allowed to record anything you want off that line
[19:48:11] wagnerrp: youre just not allowed to decrypt it without proper authorization
[19:48:26] sphery: wagnerrp: I'm talking cable co ToS, not law
[19:48:28] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: I would imagine the Cable co agreements would be quite specific about you recording only the content directed at your node
[19:48:34] sphery: exactly
[19:48:58] sphery: it's Pay Per /View/ not Pay Once Per Distribute
[19:49:07] sphery: :)
[19:50:12] kisak: in my case, I have no interest in PPV content, it's BBC America and possibly Funimation for when I'm exceptionally bored
[19:50:54] sphery: yeah, in that case, it may not be prohibited--though it could still be, since the cable co may be tracking who watches what
[19:51:10] sphery: as alway, read the fine print
[19:51:32] sphery: http://www.mouseprint.org/ being a fun site that does that
[19:51:32] wagnerrp: sphery: a cable box will never access those channels, meaning you could only do it with a QAM tuner
[19:51:35] iamlindoro: WANSL
[19:51:39] iamlindoro: (We are not slimy lawyers)
[19:51:42] wagnerrp: they have no way of telling what you have tuned into
[19:51:47] sphery: heh, was wondering about the S
[19:51:50] skd5aner: sphery: AMD...
[19:52:22] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: Well, the cable box is the only device that *is* authorized to tune them
[19:52:31] kisak: on another note, I wonder if it's worth the hassle and lag to figure out a script to put my STBs to sleep when not in use
[19:52:41] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: ie, by sending an out of band request for it, receiving the OOB notification of what channel to tune to, and then doing so
[19:52:46] skd5aner: sphery: mobo – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . E16813128444 cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103871
[19:52:51] Beirdo: skd5aner: how many cores in the end?
[19:52:56] skd5aner: 4
[19:53:13] Beirdo: cool. Let us know how that works for ya
[19:53:25] sphery: skd5aner: ah, see, I'd go with a dual-core 45W (or 65W) CPU
[19:53:27] skd5aner: will do, trying one last test – seeing if the issue is the power supply
[19:53:30] sphery: about half that price
[19:54:24] Beirdo: my plan is an intel E5400 for the frontend (dual core, 65W), and i7–860 for the backend (quad-core HT)
[19:54:26] sphery: but that's still $135 for RAM? are you getting 8GB?
[19:54:35] sphery: I'd go with 4GB for about $80 or even 2GB
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[19:55:17] sphery: not that my choices are what you should choose--and if you do, I take no responsibility if you're dissatisfied (I know exactly what I would need/want, but don't know what you do)
[19:55:44] Beirdo: who's not a slimy lawyer now? :)
[19:55:55] skd5aner: sphery: yea, having difficulties deciding on the ram, looking at 2x2GB (4GB total)
[19:56:07] sphery: yeah, 4GB isn't bad
[19:56:10] skd5aner: but don't know what speed I should go with
[19:56:19] skd5aner: most of them start around $90
[19:56:28] sphery: that /is/ a DDR3 mobo, though, so that's more expensive
[19:56:31] Beirdo: I may dumb my backend plans down to 4G
[19:56:35] sphery: and I wouldn't worry about getting 1866
[19:56:44] skd5aner: 1333 good enough you think?
[19:57:06] sphery: I'm using DDR2 800 on my systems and have no performance issues
[19:57:11] skd5aner: my apologies, gotta step away, brb
[19:57:25] sphery: I buy for price, not performance
[19:57:47] sphery: paying 50% or more for a 5% performance improvement is a huge waste, IMHO
[19:58:12] sphery: many times that actually turns into 100% or more cost increase, too
[19:58:54] sphery: but $350 isn't a bad cost
[19:59:05] sphery: it's just paying for a lot of stuff I wouldn't pay for
[19:59:09] sphery: (mainly numbers :)
[19:59:12] gavinp: right now i keep thinking i want more disk
[19:59:19] gavinp: i think i'm being silly though
[19:59:27] sphery: gavinp: that's the one thing I can't stop spending money on
[19:59:28] Beirdo: sphery: you're secretly Scottish, aren't ya?
[19:59:40] gavinp: I have 3Tb right now in my media array
[19:59:41] Beirdo: need more disk!
[19:59:42] sphery: I just got a 2TB drive delivered today and I have 3.5TB free
[19:59:43] gavinp: and i keep wanting more
[19:59:49] Beirdo: heh
[19:59:52] sphery: (this will make 12.5TB total)
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[20:00:07] gavinp: I only have six controllers in my case, and there's 4x 1.5 in there
[20:00:11] gavinp: i want to add 2x 2.0
[20:00:12] Beirdo: I'm running on less than 1TB right now, and it's not gonna last
[20:00:20] sphery: Beirdo: heh, I think I do have some Scottish ancestry. Would explain my love of Scotch whiskey, too.
[20:00:31] gavinp: sphery: that's just being reasonable, liking scotch
[20:00:36] iamlindoro: and plaid
[20:00:39] kisak: I'm at 1.6 TB with the option to bump up to 2.1TB
[20:00:51] Beirdo: 360G for mythtv recordings... and the season's about to start
[20:00:52] sphery: iamlindoro: tartan plaid is good--but only on women
[20:01:05] Beirdo: sphery: or off.. never mind
[20:01:11] sphery: I like the green/blue best, though
[20:01:25] Beirdo: what, no kilt?
[20:01:50] sphery: not for me
[20:02:17] Beirdo: me neither. I'm not that adventurous, sorry
[20:02:18] kisak: we've had a horrible time with Caviar Green drives recently, ones marked EARS
[20:02:31] gavinp: I have been using barracuda LP
[20:02:34] wagnerrp: kisak: its a known issue
[20:02:35] gavinp: and i am happy
[20:02:39] sphery: though I did some work in Eugene, OR and they were pretty popular there (one of the guys I worked with wore one--and there was even an article in the paper about "utility kilts" the next day)
[20:02:44] gavinp: one is running warm though, and another has had a lot of remappings
[20:02:55] wagnerrp: problems with them internally using a 4K block size, but externally emulating a 512K size
[20:03:11] sphery: kisak: I got a Caviar Green and hated the 4K sectors
[20:03:14] Beirdo: I see kilts at work fairly regularly
[20:03:18] gavinp: wagnerrp: can't you just tell your filesystem about that?
[20:03:27] wagnerrp: gavinp: some yes, some no
[20:03:28] sphery: gavinp: gotta do it when partitioning
[20:03:43] sphery: gavinp: i.e. align your filesystem on sector boundaries
[20:03:51] gavinp: oh, right.
[20:03:56] Beirdo: align this...
[20:04:17] wagnerrp: normally partitioning would put the first sector at block 63, which would be physical block 7.875
[20:04:21] bjd_: mmm, i seem to watch quite a lot of videos, is there someway i can automate mythcomflag?
[20:04:33] wagnerrp: bjd_: automate it?
[20:04:43] wagnerrp: more than it already is?
[20:04:51] sphery: gavinp: parted using either -a optimal or -a minimal
[20:04:54] ** wagnerrp must be misunderstanding something **
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[20:05:12] gavinp: ok
[20:05:15] gavinp: i have one naive question
[20:05:20] sphery: FWIW, -a optimal seems to use an approach that's compatible with Windows 7, but that wastes 1MiB of storage space
[20:05:24] randomtask_1234: are the 2tb WD black drives ok?
[20:05:25] gavinp: is mytharchive for making DVDs more reliable in 23.1 than it was in .22?
[20:05:28] ** sphery is still annoyed at having wasted 1MiB **
[20:05:35] bjd_: wagnerrp: well, i copy a file onto the box then i run mythcomflag --rebuild --video on said file
[20:05:51] gavinp: lots of attempts in 22 failed on me for reasons i never understood (seemingly good recordings, then some muxer would fail with a mumble-mumble starvation)
[20:05:51] sphery: gavinp: not much has been done with mytharchive
[20:05:56] gavinp: damn.
[20:06:01] wagnerrp: bjd_: why would you do that? why would videos pulled from an external source even have commercials?
[20:06:02] sphery: though there were a couple of minor patches
[20:06:28] bjd_: wagnerrp: for the seek table stuff
[20:06:38] sphery: ah, the mythcommflag --rebuild
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[20:06:44] bjd_: yup
[20:06:48] wagnerrp: for most content, you dont need seektables
[20:06:57] wagnerrp: for some content, building seektables actually breaks things
[20:07:00] Fableflame: This is probably going to be a real newb question but I'm new to MythTV, as in I just installed it. How do I configure it so I can watch TV?
[20:07:18] wagnerrp: they only thing you should bother generating them for is mpeg2/h264 in an mpeg2 container
[20:07:24] sphery: Fableflame: first step: mythtv-setup
[20:07:39] sphery: for that, more reading is likely necessary
[20:08:04] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO.html + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual
[20:08:26] sphery: and the wiki in general: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Main_Page
[20:08:54] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview may also help get a big picture overview
[20:09:13] gavinp: i'd like BD-9 support in mytharchive, but that's silly and perhaps unlikely
[20:09:14] sphery: Fableflame: and, note, if you just want to view TV as it airs, MythTV is probably not the right app for you
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[20:09:38] Fableflame: sphery, is there an app that does that?
[20:09:39] gavinp: myth is not very good for watching live TV, although it can do it
[20:09:48] wagnerrp: gavinp: there are no open source bluray authoring tools available to pull in
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[20:10:03] gavinp: wagnerrp, i know. I have looked periodically.
[20:11:54] Beirdo: wagnerrp: the zotac mobo with 6 SATA... seems to have a mini PCIe slot too
[20:12:11] wagnerrp: yeah, you said that a couple days ago
[20:12:27] Beirdo: hehe
[20:12:32] Beirdo: OK, I'm a tard :)
[20:12:33] wagnerrp: too bad there arent many options for tuners or video cards to put in there
[20:12:40] Beirdo: crystal hd
[20:12:46] wagnerrp: does neither
[20:12:50] Beirdo: but for a backend... not too useful yet
[20:13:09] Beirdo: it may end up being useful for commflag at some point though
[20:13:23] wagnerrp: you could use it for an external backplane, but those are expensive
[20:13:57] Beirdo: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1064-page1.html
[20:14:02] ** Beirdo is reading up **
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[20:14:46] wagnerrp: hehe
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[20:15:02] wagnerrp: 'or lugged around to LAN parties by a 100 pound weakling with one arm free to lovingly grip a 2L bottle of Mountain Dew'
[20:15:02] sphery: Fableflame: tvtime, xawtv, kwintv, gnometv, ... stuff like that (some of which may have been replaced/renamed)
[20:15:12] Beirdo: yeah
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[20:15:29] wagnerrp: thats some fantastic imagery
[20:15:48] sphery: Fableflame: MythTV is primarily about setting up a computer to record any TV show you might possibly ever watch so you can watch it on your schedule, not theirs
[20:17:50] skd5aner: heh, put in an old PSU, and the server hasn't crashed yet...
[20:18:28] skd5aner: looks like I might be postponing that upgrade after all
[20:19:40] sphery: Beirdo: which lian li case were you looking at? Not this one? http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetail . . . Combo.504566
[20:19:58] Fableflame: sphery, do those all require capture cards?
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[20:20:25] Beirdo: nope
[20:20:27] sphery: Fableflame: to get TV in, you'll need a capture card with any app. If you want online video, maybe look at Miro
[20:20:50] Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112265
[20:20:50] sphery: Beirdo: ah, thought maybe you could save 12 days coffee funds :)
[20:20:51] Beirdo: that one
[20:21:18] skd5aner: If a disk is offline (and that is a SG), myth's smart enough to only use ones that are online right?
[20:21:32] sphery: skd5aner: with proper directory config
[20:21:49] skd5aner: sphery: can you be more specific?
[20:22:10] sphery: skd5aner: i.e. if you mount your dir at /srv/mythtv/mydisk and you set MythtV up to use /srv/mythtv/mydisk directory, then mydisk actually exists whether or not the file system is mounted
[20:22:17] skd5aner: My disks have a single partition... and each is mounted to a unique directory...
[20:22:20] sphery: the mount point itself has the same name as the directory
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[20:22:47] skd5aner: ah, it would have to be a subdir under mydisk then?
[20:22:50] sphery: so if you instead mount your file system at /srv/mythtv/mydisk and set MythTV up to use /srv/mythtv/mydisk/recordings , then MythTV will notice /srv/mythtv/mydisk/recordings doesn't exist and ignore the dir
[20:22:55] sphery: right
[20:23:07] sphery: that's the recommended configuration for exactly that reason
[20:23:12] skd5aner: good point...
[20:23:18] sphery: you should never point a storage group to a mount point dir
[20:23:25] sphery: (meaning never the root of any file system)
[20:23:54] sphery: (granted, root of root would actually always work, but you shouldn't point an SG there for other reasons :)
[20:23:58] skd5aner: actually, I it wrong it looks like
[20:24:06] skd5aner: er, did
[20:24:13] sphery: on the bright side, it's extremely easy to fix
[20:24:20] sphery: you just make a subdir then move the recordings
[20:24:25] sphery: versus having to copy them all
[20:24:44] skd5aner: I have /mythtv/recordings/area1 (and area2 and area3)
[20:24:49] skd5aner: as directories
[20:25:04] skd5aner: and then I mounted each disk's partition to each one of those respectively
[20:25:11] sphery: yeah, you should fix that
[20:25:27] skd5aner: yea, but the directories are offline now, heh – got to fix them when they are online :)
[20:25:34] sphery: true
[20:25:57] sphery: if nothing else, at least remove those (missing file system) dirs from SG config for now
[20:26:06] skd5aner: I would still have to have unique subdirs (area1/2/3) for each mount point though, correct?
[20:26:08] sphery: or just delete the mount point dir :)
[20:26:14] sphery: yeah
[20:26:48] sphery: I actually use /srv/mythtv/tv/{a,b,c,d,...}/recordings where a-z are the mount point dirs
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[20:27:07] skd5aner: yea, I couldn't create ../area1(2/3) on the disks repsectively then mount every disk to /mythtv/recordings because you have to have unique mount poits right
[20:27:17] sphery: right
[20:27:25] skd5aner: yea... ok...
[20:27:36] sphery: otherwise, you'd cover up the previous file system
[20:27:37] skd5aner: that all makes sense, just never thought it completely through that way
[20:27:40] sphery: and weirdness ensues
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[20:27:53] skd5aner: I mean, I knew the unique mountpoint part, but no the first part of the discussion
[20:28:00] sphery: yeah, wasn't completely obvious to anyone until we had started using SGs in the real world
[20:28:03] skd5aner: s/no/not
[20:28:37] sphery: skd5aner: my manifest on that point: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/443158#443158
[20:28:53] sphery: also talks about how you should never specify any SG info on any remote/slave backend
[20:29:13] skd5aner: well, I'm beginning to think that I may be "lucky" here... it's becoming more plausible that my PSU is bad, which would be a good thing... I can limp along on the old one and replace a PSU rather than going the upgrade route
[20:29:25] sphery: nice
[20:29:41] skd5aner: I'm wondering if there's a way to bench test the PSU?
[20:29:42] sphery: and a good opportunity to replace an old PSU with a nice 80 PLUS PSU
[20:29:52] skd5aner: sphery: yea, but this was a decent PSU to begin with
[20:29:58] sphery: ahh
[20:30:00] skd5aner: I think it was already 80 plus
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[20:30:18] sphery: but still, a PSU is rather cheap, and it's reusable
[20:30:31] sphery: so even if you upgrade later, you'll likely be able to reuse that part
[20:31:02] sphery: whereas, IMHO, mobos, RAM, CPUs aren't reusable (i.e. sideways "upgrades" to same-gen tech aren't worth the cost)
[20:31:24] skd5aner: sphery: this was it – http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103941
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[20:32:22] wagnerrp: sphery: plus you end up with scenarios where boards 'feign' compatibility
[20:32:51] sphery: skd5aner: ah, that one's not 80 plus... http://80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx + http://80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_detail.aspx?id=6&type=2 . The NEO ECO line was the 80 PLUS version of that.
[20:32:55] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah
[20:33:21] wagnerrp: for instance, i upgraded from an XP1600 (1.4GHz) to a Barton 2600 (1.93GHz)
[20:33:27] wagnerrp: the processor was 333MHz
[20:33:32] skd5aner: yea, but it was 85% efficient according to Antec at least
[20:33:34] sphery: skd5aner: I highly recommend 80 PLUS... No need for Bronze, Silver, or Gold--standard or higher is fine.
[20:33:44] wagnerrp: the board was a KT333, one would expect it supported a 333MHz bus
[20:33:50] wagnerrp: boy was i fooled!
[20:34:11] sphery: skd5aner: yeah, the difference being that at /one/ load point it was 85% efficient. 80 PLUS guarantees you get 80% efficiency or higher /everywhere/ from 20% load to 100% load.
[20:35:03] sphery: skd5aner: check the graphs on any of the listed PSUs, and you'll see a difference (most tend to be most-efficient at 50% load)
[20:35:31] ** sphery is a believer in 80 PLUS **
[20:35:50] skd5aner: Ohhh, this thing has a 5 year warranty :D
[20:36:07] wagnerrp: what does?
[20:36:07] sphery: ever since I found with a kill-a-watt that just switching to an 80 PLUS PSU (an no other changes to the system) was saving me $1.50/mo/computer
[20:36:15] skd5aner: my defunct PSU
[20:36:16] stuartm: I'm a believer in anything that is as efficient as it possibly can be
[20:36:17] sphery: his non-80-PLUS PSU :)
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[20:36:34] sphery: stuartm: exactly, efficiency without compromise is wonderful
[20:36:56] skd5aner: hehe, the cost savings of FREE WARRANTY outweight the energy efficiency I would get spending $80 on an new 80 PLUS PSU ;)
[20:37:00] wagnerrp: a PSU is probably the only thing i would bother worrying about a long warranty on
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[20:37:29] wagnerrp: anything else, at the end of 3yrs, im probably looking to upgrade anyway
[20:37:34] stuartm: and not for tree hugging reasons, or even the cost savings over 5–10 years of use, but because it's way more elegant and beautiful a design
[20:37:35] wagnerrp: certainly after 5 years
[20:37:46] skd5aner: also, I'm a huge beliver in efficiency too... as long as the payback period is enormously long, which in the case of the PSUs (when you need a new one) is almost immediate
[20:38:09] gavinp: $1.50/mo is huyge
[20:38:11] gavinp: wow
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[20:38:33] sphery: skd5aner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004 + code EMCYXZR24 for $49.99 after $10 MIR, or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004 + code EMCYXZR25 for $44.99 after $30 MIR
[20:38:37] wagnerrp: gavinp: only 15–20W consumption
[20:38:44] gavinp: yeah. watts are pricy
[20:38:50] gavinp: my marginal cost is like $0.23/kwh
[20:38:52] gavinp: it's insane
[20:38:56] high-rez: Wow, hdcp master key was leaked?
[20:39:09] wagnerrp: which upgrading from a <70% efficient unit probably means hes running his systems at 100–150W sustained
[20:39:10] sphery: skd5aner: the only problem being that the 550W assumes you're using a load of at least 110W all the time, and 700W assumes 140W all the time
[20:39:38] gavinp: worse yet, electricity carries an AC cost in the summer
[20:39:46] gavinp: although in the winter, using electricity cuts your heating bill
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[20:39:54] gavinp: (if you use it indoors)
[20:40:00] KjetilK: I'm trying to debug my MCEUSB remote. Currently, it works with some keys, arrow keys notably, but most not. I remember vaguely that there was some kind of lirc utility that would list the keys that I hit. Tried ircat, but that didn't work as expected. Anyone here remember that stuff?
[20:40:08] iamlindoro: God damn it, I sometimes think that certain people on the users list are willfully ignorant
[20:40:09] stuartm: generally speaking I'd expect anything engineered to the last component to be efficient to also have a greater lifespan, it costs more because the components are higher quality, switched mode etc
[20:40:17] stuartm: but maybe that's just wishful thinking
[20:40:30] stuartm: KjetilK: irw
[20:40:43] iamlindoro: "My IPTV provider could use a Blu-ray disc as a source at the stream would have the ICT"
[20:40:44] skd5aner: wagnerrp: did you say you had the same PSU (the antec NeoPower 550)?
[20:40:46] iamlindoro: No. No. NO.
[20:40:58] sphery: gavinp: my $1.50 is based on $0.10/kWh--i.e. 20W savings on about 170W average usage, making 150W average (running BOINC/SETI@home all the time)
[20:41:04] KjetilK: stuartm, ah, that was it
[20:41:09] iamlindoro: I really wish people would spend five minutes learning how digital transmission works before deciding to argue about it
[20:41:31] wagnerrp: skd5aner: ive got a NP500
[20:41:49] high-rez: iamlindoro: Is somebody arguing that a monster cable hdmi cable 'looks better' than a cheapo one? :P
[20:42:01] iamlindoro: no, but nearly as monumentally dumb
[20:42:37] sphery: iamlindoro: well, there's so much out there to learn about, what with the image-constraint token they're broadcasting and the 5C encryption and stuff
[20:42:49] high-rez: My bro in law has a $120 hdmi cable. He argued with me that it looks better. He works in IT.  :)
[20:42:54] iamlindoro: <headesk><headesk><headesk><headesk>
[20:43:10] high-rez: So uhm, no thoughts on this hdcp stuff? :P
[20:43:13] sphery: Oh, and selectable output control
[20:43:29] AndyCap: high-rez: not really interesting?
[20:43:36] iamlindoro: high-rez: Besides it being useless to anyone but someone with an ancient HDTV?
[20:43:48] skd5aner: monster cables do look better... have you seen how /cool/ their sheathing is?! And those connectors, they forms they mold them in must have been made my Michelangelo himself!
[20:43:48] skd5aner: ;)
[20:44:16] stuartm: gavinp: the argument that, for example incandescent lightbulbs, save on heating bills has always been nonsensical to me, people would rather spend extra all year round on energy wasted by a lightbulb than have their heating on for a few extra seconds in winter (dedicated heaters are more efficient at heating than lightbulbs anyway)
[20:44:21] high-rez: I sort of remember a number of companies who wanted to disable their analog outputs and use hdmi/hdcp only to prevent things like the hdpvr...
[20:44:34] iamlindoro: Seems like he finally got it, though... sigh
[20:44:40] gavinp: stuartm, yeah, of course i wasn't making that argument
[20:45:05] skd5aner: My machines are inside, but are in a non-conditioned space right now which is simply ventilated and is usually between 50–70 degrees
[20:45:31] skd5aner: so, moot point on multiple fronts related to wasted energy converted to heat :)
[20:45:33] stuartm: skd5aner: F I hope, that would be lethally warm for C
[20:45:56] wagnerrp: why would you /now/ upgrade to 0.22?
[20:46:10] skd5aner: stuartm: heh, yea... sorry, I figured your locale settings in IRC would magically do the conversion for you... ;)
[20:46:26] skd5aner: if, such a thing existed
[20:46:33] wagnerrp: i mean why would you want to bother getting 0.22 upgraded if your final plan was to run 0.23
[20:46:58] sphery: stuartm: yeah, this sums it up nicely: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/18/energy_idiocy_survey/
[20:47:07] skd5aner: stuartm: 72 degrees F is a common standard for "comfortable, indoor temp"
[20:47:17] skd5aner: as a reference
[20:47:41] sphery: i.e. people who are most concerned about the environment tend to waste time on the useless (i.e. unplugging cell phone chargers) and not doing the actual useful stuff
[20:47:48] sphery: full report is well worth a read, too
[20:48:01] sphery: so the biggest problem is the lack of education
[20:48:33] gavinp: http://www.withouthotair.com/
[20:48:35] gavinp: i like that book a lot
[20:48:44] skd5aner: yea, I still don't buy into the "plug everything into a strip so you can turn it off" argument. Yea, there is power usage when devices are off, but go for the big wins first
[20:48:49] gavinp: the techical chapters on cars & planes are interesting
[20:48:55] sphery: skd5aner: I'd like to find a way to get my oven to vent all its waste heat outside, rather than into my air-conditioned house
[20:48:59] gavinp: explains why adding weight to a car is not expensive, but planes pay by the lb
[20:49:19] ** sphery actually keeps the A/C at 80F, most of the time, though **
[20:49:21] skd5aner: I'd like to magically heat my water
[20:49:25] skd5aner: with magic
[20:49:29] skd5aner: instead of electricity
[20:49:31] sphery: (80F with low humidity is not bad)
[20:49:32] Beirdo: AC? what's that? :)
[20:49:43] wagnerrp: air conditioning
[20:49:49] ** Beirdo hasn't had AC at home since he lived in Toronto **
[20:49:50] sphery: something we use in the south
[20:49:57] sphery: you northerners wouldn't know
[20:49:58] skd5aner: Beirdo: the third greatest invention of all time
[20:50:00] wagnerrp: not even when you lived in the rain forest?
[20:50:15] Beirdo: we had a mini-split in the master bedroom, and it kept dying
[20:50:20] stuartm: sphery: the TV on standby one has always puzzled me, just what must people think it does when in standby that it's such a crime ?
[20:50:23] sphery: wagnerrp: he spent his time sitting in lawn chairs on the Arecibo dish
[20:50:32] wagnerrp: must be why your computers mostly burned up and died
[20:50:33] Beirdo: it's too expensive to air condition in the tropics
[20:50:48] Beirdo: they didn't burn up, they got fried by power spikes :)
[20:51:09] sphery: stuartm: yeah, me too...
[20:51:11] skd5aner: sphery: my AC is usually set to 75 or 76 unless I'm doing labor around the house
[20:51:16] wagnerrp: skd5aner: i heat my water without electricity
[20:51:31] wagnerrp: i cool my refrigerator without electricity
[20:51:36] skd5aner: gas?
[20:51:42] wagnerrp: for both
[20:51:55] skd5aner: Natural Gas or Propane?
[20:52:07] gavinp: engine driven?
[20:52:13] high-rez: hand crank
[20:52:17] gavinp: gerbils!
[20:52:19] wagnerrp: NG for the heater, LP for the fridge
[20:52:41] stuartm: most homes in the UK are heated by natural gas, many stoves are also feed by the same natural gas supply
[20:52:43] Beirdo: Taco Bell for the fridge
[20:52:46] skd5aner: I don't have NG where I am, but I do have a Propane tank, but it's only for the fireplace... however, I could probably get something larger and hook it up to a water heater if I wanted but I'm not sure that's much cheaper in the end
[20:52:48] sphery: stuartm: I do a part-time job for a company, where we use many computers (5–20) during the work day, but they're doing nothing of use at night. Their policy is that we have to turn /off/ the (LCD) monitors, but they don't care about the computers. The LCD monitor in standby tends to draw 1W or less. The computer--running a VMWare instance--never actually goes to any kind of power-saving mode...
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[20:52:53] gavinp: stuartm, that's common in the US and Canada, too
[20:53:02] gavinp: my home uses natural gas for heating, cooking & hot water
[20:53:05] skd5aner: electricity prices where I live are VERY stable, gas prices are a complete guessing game
[20:53:13] gavinp: some people use it for their clothes dryer too, but we use electricity
[20:53:24] sphery: stuartm: I tend to do the opposite--I turn off the computers and leave the monitors on (but in DPMS 'off' mode)
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[20:53:36] sphery: no one has called me on it, yet, though :)
[20:53:49] Beirdo: I don't even do that
[20:53:53] wagnerrp: sphery: off? or standby?
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[20:53:55] gavinp: sphery: magic packets work
[20:53:56] Beirdo: I lock the screen and walk away
[20:54:23] sphery: stuartm: I just hate the cell phone charger things--we actually get TV commercials as "public service announcements" telling people to unplug cell phone chargers
[20:54:36] Beirdo: hehe
[20:54:42] Beirdo: turn off your ruddy AC
[20:54:50] Beirdo: there, saved a lot more power
[20:54:53] skd5aner: I'm involved in some of my companies Green IT strategies... needless to save, it's huge huge company that everyone here has heard about, and there are some massive savings in things like sleeping desktops after hours
[20:55:01] skd5aner: s/save/say
[20:55:05] Beirdo: dry your clothes on a clothes line...
[20:55:11] sphery: I can't find a /single/ charger (from the first cell phone I ever had) that even registers a load on my Kill-a-Watt (meaning at /most/ just under 0.5W usage). So, if you assume 0.5W * 24 = 12Whr/day = nothing.
[20:55:35] Beirdo: I'd bet my iPhone charger packs a punch
[20:55:36] stuartm: sphery: heh, since my computers double as backends they remain on 24/7, but with reasonable power-saving modes, disk spindown, frequency scaling, 80plus PSUs, 5400rpm 'green' drives, I do turn off the monitors but only because the standby leds are quite bright
[20:55:37] Beirdo: but meh
[20:56:16] skd5aner: My neighbors are huge "greenies" – they live on a 40 acre farm, one of their primary cars is a prius, have solar panels on the roof of their 120 year old farm house and dry all their laundry
[20:56:24] skd5aner: on the line
[20:56:27] stuartm: sphery: I've found that my recent chargers have been pretty efficient, the old transformers got pretty warm, the newer ones don't
[20:56:38] sphery: stuartm: DPMS off = the orange light on the LCD (i.e. like if you do an xset dpms force off versus doing standby or suspend)
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[20:57:01] Beirdo: drying laundry on the line halved our electricity bill in PR
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[20:57:25] stuartm: skd5aner: all mine goes on the line, prefer it that way, probably doesn't hurt the leccy bill
[20:57:32] skd5aner: we all know that orange LEDs are the least power hungry of the LEDs ;)
[20:57:41] gavinp: skd5aner: i may be greener... I live in a small apartment in a dense neighbourhood, and walk most places
[20:57:47] ** gavinp shrugs. **
[20:57:49] Beirdo: let's replace em with blue
[20:58:04] gavinp: i prefer towels from the dryer to line dried towels
[20:58:05] Beirdo: gavinp: I live in a large apartment and take the bus :)
[20:58:08] sphery: stuartm: yeah, but they only got warm when you had something plugged into them... the myth of unplugging cell phone chargers comes from a real-world issue that if you leave your cell phone plugged into the charger, it wastes power because it keeps kicking back into charging mode when it shouldn't and the fact that charging cycles waste /some/ energy because of how they figure out its done charging. But leaving the charger ...
[20:58:13] Beirdo: I'm not quite green enough
[20:58:14] sphery: ... plugged into the wall isn't a problem.
[20:58:21] gavinp: my apartment is actually kinda big, but we are a family of four :/
[20:58:28] skd5aner: stuartm: I actually wouldn't mind it, but I'm way too used to just taking everything the 24 inches from the washer and throwing it direclty into the drier... convience I guess, however I do air dry a few things to prevent shrinking
[20:58:29] stuartm: sphery: yeah and though not as bright as the power on blue, they still annoy me :)
[20:58:35] gavinp: anyway, check out that withoutthehotair link
[20:58:37] gavinp: very good book
[20:58:51] skd5aner: gavinp: it's all relative :)
[20:58:55] ** Beirdo is a family of one now... and a 2BR apt all for me :) **
[20:58:56] Beirdo: hehe
[20:58:58] wagnerrp: so just to test this, ive got my kill-a-watt plugged into the power strip ive got all my chargers on
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[20:59:20] wagnerrp: ones for... gameboy, phone, pda, headset, and a spare usb charger
[20:59:27] wagnerrp: pulling 0.00A
[20:59:30] wagnerrp: it doesnt even register
[20:59:50] sphery: stuartm: and, yeah, turning the monitor off isn't bad--just a waste to make that a policy and ignore the /much/ bigger electricity usage of the computer running at full bore all night
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[21:00:29] skd5aner: Well... I do have an old LCD monitor that keeps the backlight on even when DPMS kicks in on the server
[21:00:32] wagnerrp: with all those devices plugged in, im still only pulling 4W
[21:00:53] skd5aner: I keep it off most of the time since it's hooked up to my servers and only used rarely
[21:00:54] wagnerrp: skd5aner: thats because it outright doesnt support DPMS
[21:00:58] wagnerrp: its just black, no signal
[21:01:23] Beirdo: I should buy a kill-a-watt some decade
[21:02:47] Beirdo: now, what I'd want is one with a USB interface
[21:02:52] Beirdo: so I can graph.
[21:02:56] wagnerrp: they call that a UPS
[21:03:20] skd5aner: I've got 2 kill-a-watts
[21:03:25] Beirdo: no
[21:03:32] Beirdo: I don't mean a UPS
[21:03:40] skd5aner: very handy, but I often go through spurts of not using them or ignoring that I plugged them in 8 months ago :)
[21:03:45] sphery: skd5aner: TTBOMK, that's DPMS standby or maybe suspend (versus off, which should shut off the backlight)
[21:03:46] Beirdo: that has a primary job of being battery backup
[21:03:49] Beirdo: :)
[21:03:58] skd5aner: was handy when I built the house to see how much a few different things were costing me to run
[21:04:02] Beirdo: I just wanna measure
[21:04:07] stuartm: sphery: another issue is that dpms and myth just don't play well, I regularly end up with my screensaver/dpms being permanently disabled :(
[21:04:11] wagnerrp: Beirdo: yeah, but it would be $40 for a power monitor, or $60 for a nice UPS
[21:04:12] Beirdo: and make a pretty graph
[21:04:16] Beirdo: yeah
[21:04:17] Beirdo: heh
[21:04:19] skd5aner: sphery: it's just that monitor, it does it on any OS or machine I've hooked it into
[21:04:22] gavinp: dpms doesn't play well with myth on my system
[21:04:22] Beirdo: true nuff
[21:04:26] sphery: skd5aner: likely you can set times on your screensaver program... I set off it to go directly to off versus suspend/standby
[21:04:34] gavinp: works great, bu5t the rfemote control doesn't cause it to come back on
[21:04:43] gavinp: so you have to go get the keybaord and hit a "key"
[21:04:48] sphery: gavinp: yeah, thanks to GNOME and KDE doing brain-dead stuff with their screensavers
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[21:04:56] sphery: GNOME is currently broken
[21:04:56] skd5aner: it's circa 2001–2002... so very old by LCD monitor standards
[21:05:01] stuartm: so turning off the monitor means I don't have to hang around for 5–10 minutes for dpms to kick in just to see that it's actually operating
[21:05:03] sphery: and we get blamed
[21:05:04] gavinp: sphery, that's just using the X server's built in DPMS
[21:05:06] Beirdo: gnome and kde sux0r
[21:05:08] gavinp: no gnome or KDE i think
[21:05:14] gavinp: xset dpms *splat*
[21:05:18] ** gavinp shrugs **
[21:05:29] skd5aner: although it was 16x10, people thought I was very futuristic at the time having a 16x10 computer monitor... ooh, ahhhh
[21:05:47] wagnerrp: skd5aner: ive got one of those, uses BNC video connectors, external power brick, no image scaling
[21:05:51] sphery: well, since MythTV can't poll the dpms stuff, it maintains its own concept of state, so if you go changing it out from under MythTV, then things don't work
[21:06:13] sphery: if you use a screensaver program, we should be able to poll the state, but that's where the broken implementations come into play
[21:06:28] skd5aner: This has VGA, maybe even DVI... can't remember the make/model off hand
[21:06:31] gavinp: sphery, ah. is there something I can use?
[21:06:38] sphery: where "you go changing it" could be any program that changes it
[21:06:53] gavinp: the X server itself has a dpms enabled screensaver
[21:06:57] gavinp: xset enables that
[21:07:06] gavinp: it can be easily queried, xset can do that
[21:07:10] skd5aner: Well, server hasn't crashed in over an hour since swapping out PSUs, that's the longest in 3 days
[21:07:16] sphery: gavinp: I know xscreensaver works (and should always work--since JWZ is a bit obsessive about /never/ doing the things that GNOME and KDE developers keep doing that keep breaking things in their screensavers)
[21:07:18] Beirdo: AFAIK, we disable that during playback (DPMS)
[21:07:33] sphery: gavinp: that said, I don't even run a screensaver on my MythTV frontend--I turn off the TV when I'm not using it :)
[21:07:43] Beirdo: me too, that's my screensaver
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[21:07:58] gavinp: my problem isn't that it activates during myth
[21:08:05] gavinp: it's that it doesn't turn the screen back on when i hit remote keys
[21:08:13] gavinp: will using xscreensaver, isntead of the X server, fix this?
[21:08:18] skd5aner: Is there an "easy" way to see what should have recorded if the BE is offline for a day?
[21:08:21] gavinp: xscreensaver seems heavyweight, but if it'll do it...
[21:08:29] stuartm: sphery: the problem is that we don't track the states in the database, if the frontend segfaults during playback or is killed, or any number of permutations which are probably rare for most users but common for devs we lose the state and we can't reset things the way they should be when the frontend is restarted
[21:09:08] gavinp: stuartm: silly peanut gallery idea: fork and do the crashy thing in the forked child, maintain state in a parent that's just waiting on the crashy child
[21:09:08] sphery: gavinp: ah, no, you'd need to fix that through LIRC or one of the other workarounds users have come up with
[21:09:19] gavinp: oh, there's other workarounds? i'll google search
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[21:09:22] gavinp: thanks
[21:10:48] Beirdo: whack that weeb
[21:10:53] sphery: stuartm: but we never actually change the state--except when the user is /only/ using DPMS (no screensaver program), then we'll toggle DPMS off (xset -dpms type stuff)--meaning worst-case scenario, DPMS isn't enabled after the crash, so if you walk away your monitor will stay on. We never actually tell the monitor to go to standby/suspend/off, though (that's up to X or screensaver programs)
[21:11:16] gavinp: wow, that is hacky.
[21:11:18] sphery: so the only time you'll have a failure is if you're not using a (supported) screensaver (xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver) and relying only on the DPMS state
[21:11:35] sphery: and, yeah, that includes the kde screensaver users
[21:11:49] sphery: gavinp: better designs considered
[21:11:51] Beirdo: haha!
[21:11:53] Beirdo: umm
[21:12:10] gavinp: fair enough, iw as taking about the workaround here: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DPMS#DPMS_with_lirc_and_irxevent
[21:12:30] sphery: gavinp: ah, that may well be a hack :)
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[21:15:06] wagnerrp: is google groups down?
[21:15:13] stuartm: sphery: I believe that's all I'm talking about, we don't track when we've disabled the screensaver in any permanent way, and at least for kde or whatever screensaver I'm using, we do turn off the screensaver rather than inhibiting it with a 'poke' type command
[21:15:32] wagnerrp: nevermind, there it does
[21:17:31] sphery: stuartm: both KDE and GNOME screensaver have a dbus-based mechanism for control of the screensaver. I've submitted patches for xdg-screensaver to allow it to use those controls. I don't really want to add a new screensaver-dbus to MythTV, though (as it requires slightly different implementations for GNOME and KDE). Really we need to convince them to redesign their dbus implementations properly so that xdg-screensaver can just ...
[21:17:37] sphery: ... work (and without hacks) and then just use xdg-screensaver.
[21:18:14] sphery: stuartm: the gnome-screensaver support in MythTV is currently "broken" because the program we use for control (gnome-screensaver-command) is broken in GNOME
[21:19:18] Beirdo: woohoo!
[21:19:34] sphery: so right now, only xscreensaver works properly--and always has because they're not doing this "new design for the purpose of being new" and requiring /every/ application that wants to interface with the screensaver to implement its own mechanism for sending the proper messages (and updating those messages as they change the dbus api for the screensaver)
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[21:19:47] Beirdo: my belt buckle was digging into me (sharp corners + belly are bad combo)...
[21:19:57] Beirdo: go to adjust it, and the belt finally broke
[21:19:59] Beirdo: yay!
[21:20:24] Beirdo: time to kill another cow
[21:20:32] sphery: It's like someone decided that GNOME and KDE are Windows-based and should be written like Windows apps--not using a *nix design where you have one program that interfaces with any screensaver at all (and just does the right thing and does it well)
[21:21:08] sphery: but I'll admit to being a bit passionate about this particular issue
[21:21:42] sphery: as I wasted far more time on screensavers in MythTV than I should have (considering I don't even run one on my MythTV boxes)
[21:24:24] Beirdo: nuke em all
[21:24:49] wagnerrp: its the only way to be sure
[21:26:18] Beirdo: peace sells..
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[21:28:48] ** wagnerrp wonders how many people would get the movie reference in -bsp **
[21:28:59] iamlindoro: Ferris
[21:29:01] iamlindoro: I got it ;)
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[21:33:38] stuartm: apparently I didn't
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[21:33:55] wagnerrp: it plays at the very end of the movie, after the credits roll
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[21:35:48] stuartm: ah, yeah I remember now :)
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[21:35:58] stuartm: it's been a while since I last saw it
[21:38:13] stuartm: that was assault! Beirdo you're my witness
[21:38:32] Beirdo: hmm, I already left
[21:38:58] stuartm: heh n/m
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[21:46:33] sphery: knightr: FWIW, I have noticed that some of the list messages are coming in out of order on my system. Perhaps that may have something to do with some messages appearing to be lost to you?
[21:46:51] sphery: don't know if mailman is stressed or just needs a reset or what...
[21:47:00] sphery: or maybe it's just the Internet is full
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[21:59:47] yatesy_: hey all, am i doing something wrong or why is it jamu seems to add metadata using just the filename to images instead of the full path? mythfrontend only seems to display the images if it's a full path to images
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[22:00:42] GadgetWisdomGuru: What's new around here?
[22:00:48] yatesy: to be more specific, I'm looking at the videometadata table at the values in fanart and coverfile
[22:01:23] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Is there a chance you are using storage groups and local paths for videos and images. They cannot be mixed and Jamu will always use storage groups first.
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[22:02:18] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Try running jamu.py -MVf to see what Jamu is using for the video and image paths and if it identifies them as storage groups.
[22:02:23] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Not sure, I've got all the default paths (as defined by mythbuntu) and simply added 2 NFS locations to locate my media in the frontend, didn't go anywhere near storage groups
[22:03:14] yatesy: I also appear to have some duplicate entries for certain files but that's probably as a result of me experimenting with jamu and the UI to get metadata I guess
[22:03:17] RDV_Linux: yatesy: If it was a new Mythbuntu install then they default to storage groups.
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[22:04:24] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Check your BE settings for Storage groups and your FE for local paths and resolve duplicates, do a Mythvideo rescan and try jamu again
[22:05:31] RDV_Linux: yatesy: remove unwanted paths. KISS the situation
[22:05:33] yatesy: under the "listed below are the types and base directories Jamu will use for processing" section I've got SG-YES for Fan art, Video, Cover art & Banners. Then 2 SG-NO entries for the two directories I added via front end
[22:06:09] RDV_Linux: yatesy: ^^^ my last comment
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[22:07:04] yatesy: OK so in the front end it's got all the /var/lib/mythtv folders and since those exist as storage groups in the backend I should remove those paths via the UI or something?
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[22:07:57] RDV_Linux: yatesy: duplicates are BAD set them as you to want you want
[22:08:28] yatesy: This is the thing tho, I haven't actually changed any of those values out of the box so I'm not sure how that quite happened
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[22:10:22] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Was jamu ever working for you?
[22:11:37] yatesy: RDV_Linux: I think it pulled back a lot of information first time round but the images weren't showing in the UI, that turned out to me having a dumb moment and had turned off metadata showing when in file browse mode
[22:11:47] RDV_Linux: yatesy: In any event if storage groups are present jamu uses them and the DB will not have absolute paths.
[22:12:22] yatesy: aha, now if the UI has those locations configured presmibly that does't quite work somehow?
[22:13:14] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Please resolve duplicates between local paths and storage groups because there will be a mess no matter what you do. That is step #1.
[22:13:40] yatesy: for example, in video general settings I have /var/lib/mythtv/fanart as the "directory that holds movie fanart", should that be blank if the backend is configured for storage groups pointing to the same location?
[22:14:00] RDV_Linux: yatesy: YES
[22:14:30] yatesy: RDV_Linux: great thanks, forgive me I'm just trying to work out how this broken configuration would be present by default seems a little odd
[22:15:16] RDV_Linux: yatesy: np I just wanted you to deal with the configuration issue that was most apparent.
[22:15:51] yatesy: sure, help is appreciated!
[22:15:59] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Once that is dealt with you may have to rescan and rerun jamu to get the DB fixed up
[22:16:25] yatesy: aha right making progress, so I blanked those fields in UI and re-ran the jamu command you pasted earlier and no more warnings about duplicates :)
[22:16:49] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Sounds good
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[22:23:02] bwallen: Is an Atom D510 good enough to play back HD video from an OTA antenna in the USA?
[22:23:59] CyberKnet: I don't know, but I sure hope a D525 is.
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[22:30:21] yatesy: ok I'm definately not doing this right, running jamu -MVd appears to be wiping my coverfile and fanart fields
[22:32:47] RDV_Linux: yatesy: drop the "d" argument it will only confuse things. Did you rescan in MythVideo that should remove duplicate records. Please do that and try again but with the -MRV options so that you can make sure your Video's have TMDB or TVDB reference numbers. Then run the -MV options.
[22:35:18] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Ta, did a "scan for changes" but checking the videometadata table I can still see duplicates, is there an easy option to blast away the lot and start from scratch!?
[22:36:31] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Yes. Change the video directory path to a direct with no video files and then do a MythVideo rescan and all the records should be dropped.
[22:36:52] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Then change the path back and rescan again.
[22:37:11] yatesy: RDV_Linux: awesome was wondering if that'd work, will try that now
[22:42:39] yatesy: That got rid of everything in videometadata but I notice there are a few records left in the lookup tables like videometadatacast & videometadatagenre but I guess that probably doesn't matter much
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[22:47:11] yatesy: heh I take it the UI hasn't fully transisioned to storage groups yet, if I grab the metadata using the UI it shoves the coverfile and fanart in ~/.mythtv/MythVideo
[22:53:09] skd5aner: if a drive was not mounted to a SG, and it tried to record, where would that recording land?
[22:53:20] skd5aner: nm, duh
[23:02:28] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Do you have a separate storage group set up for each image type? The "~/.mythtv/MythVideo" sounds very odd. MythVideo will put the images in the video path if a separate path for an image type was not specified in Storage groups or local paths and Jamu emulates MythVideo in these regards. Do not do a whole mass of work before updating your collection. In fact confirm your configuration using MythVideo
[23:02:28] RDV_Linux: "w" to get metadata BEFORE using Jamu. It will save you time in the end.
[23:05:44] yatesy: RDV_Linux: according to the output at the start of a jamu -MVf I have one for fan art, video, cover art & banners if seperate lines mean seperate storage groups
[23:08:56] yatesy: When I say ~/.mythtv/MythVideo I actually mean the full path aka /home/tv/.mythtv/MythVideo in my case
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[23:15:06] RDV_Linux: yatesy: In my experience which may not mean anything for your setup the "~/.mythtv" is reserved for MythTV configuration files but every ones set up is different. If the dirrectory for each image type is unique then the images should go into those unique directories..
[23:16:39] yatesy: RDV_Linux: makes sense, I don't seem to be able to even get jamu to download any form of images at the moment! I went through -MVR and added all that fine then did -MV which grabbed description etc but no images
[23:17:59] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Just do one more double check using the -MVf option to make sure Jamu displayed the paths for each image type and video directory you are expecting.
[23:19:47] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Yup looks OK, I've even got lines like this: fanartdir ([u'/var/lib/mythtv/fanart']) which seems correct too
[23:21:27] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Ok now use MythVideo "w" option to update video metadata AND images. If that works then Jamu should. If MythVideo does not download images then Jamu would also have a problem. Do a TV episode and a Movie if you can.
[23:22:33] Beirdo: a'ight, blah.
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[23:24:10] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Just restarted the UI then hit w for a film with existing metadata but no images, images are showing in the UI but database still has paths like: /home/tv/.mythtv/MythVideo/17134_fanart.jpg. Not able to test a tv episode quite so easily as that's my biggest folder by far so excluded for getting this right first with films
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[23:26:10] RDV_Linux: yatesy: If the images show up in the UI then it sounds like things are working. The path looks like MythVideo still sees a local path in the FE settings.
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[23:26:47] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Storage groups use relative paths while local paths are absolute.
[23:27:05] yatesy: RDV_Linux: aye certainly an improvement from what I had before! FE fields are totally blank :( Unless it's hidden in another setting perhaps
[23:27:42] yatesy: jamu -MVf has no mention of the .mythtv/MythVideo path as well which seems suspicious
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[23:28:57] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Jamu gets its paths from the Mythtv db that you run it on while MythVideo will look at the FE paths and BE paths. Are you using a a combined FE/BE?
[23:29:20] yatesy: RDV_Linux: yup single machine only
[23:31:35] RDV_Linux: yatesy: I will admit something is odd as on an combined FE/BE Jamu will get both FE and BE db paths and reflect them in the -MVf display. So I am at a loss why MythVideo has absolute paths for in the db image fields.
[23:32:08] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Take it for granted MytnVideo is king and do not use Jamu if it is messing things up.
[23:33:43] wagnerrp: figures, he leaves minutes before im about to respond...
[23:34:58] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Thanks for your help, at least for now I can get images working but I'll have to use w on every file I want them for for the moment!
[23:35:57] wagnerrp: yatesy: why do you want to not use storage groups?
[23:36:24] wagnerrp: especially in your scenario where you have a remote frontend, something storage groups (and the underlying remote file access) were designed specifically for
[23:36:54] RDV_Linux: yatesy: better than nothing. One word of caution Mythbuntu automatically sets up three cronjobs to run Jamu. You should disable the Weekly and daily jobs or there may be issues. Do not worry about the hourly job.
[23:37:57] RDV_Linux: yatesy: Weekly is -MJ / Daily is -M or -MN / Hourly -MW
[23:40:38] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Ta, I'd already disabled the daily one but didn't realise there was a weekly too
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[23:41:13] yatesy: wagnerrp: I have no preference either way, but I have a single machine with a combined FE/BE setup and since I had to stop the BE to mess with storage groups I just went with adding a file path via the UI as the simplier option
[23:41:36] wagnerrp: you said you were mounting the stuff over NFS though
[23:41:44] yatesy: granted the media I'm playing lives on a seperate server accessed via NFS, but that has nothing to do with the mythtv setup
[23:41:51] wagnerrp: ah
[23:41:56] yatesy: Captured TV is stored locally
[23:42:05] RDV_Linux: yatesy: The weekly one is the one I would be most concerned about as it deletes images files that are no longer used. If Jamu is have problems reading your settings I do not know what may happen.
[23:42:18] wagnerrp: i thought your content was stored on your backend, and you had a separate remote frontend that was mounted over nfs
[23:42:25] yatesy: RDV_Linux: Bad things no doubt :)
[23:42:53] yatesy: wagnerrp: nope, maybe in the future if I scale up to multiple front ends, but I'm just starting out for now :)
[23:43:26] wagnerrp: well youre fine for now, but i would expect the role of local content to change by 0.25
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[23:44:26] yatesy: I guess I could start again with entirely storage group based configuration and see if that changes anything for me, ultimately more scalable if i get that right now
[23:44:46] wagnerrp: no reason to start again
[23:44:49] yatesy: I had read on the grape vine that it was heading the storage group way!
[23:44:56] wagnerrp: once you get everything hashed up (starting with 0.23)
[23:45:04] wagnerrp: you can flip between the two methods at will
[23:45:25] wagnerrp: mythvideo will has the new content its detecting, find it a match to existing content, and update the path
[23:45:34] wagnerrp: just a heads up, its nothing imperative
[23:45:54] wagnerrp: 0.25 wont be out until probably middle of next year
[23:46:10] yatesy: remove path from FE, stop BE, Add path to storage group, start BE then I'm done?
[23:46:13] wagnerrp: and local content is fine in 0.24 (to be released probably within a month)
[23:46:35] wagnerrp: pretty much, you just have to go into the frontend and rescan
[23:46:45] wagnerrp: it will take some time to do so
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[23:46:50] wagnerrp: as it will have to rehash all the 'new' content
[23:47:02] wagnerrp: hashing involves reading the first and last 64kb of each file
[23:47:17] yatesy: considering i blasted away my metadata database earlier I guess one more time couldn't hurt ;)
[23:47:44] wagnerrp: well moving from anything previous to 0.22, you should have blasted it away
[23:48:02] wagnerrp: any tv shows imported into the previous database schema would not be supported by the new data grabbers
[23:49:13] yatesy: I've only ever run one version as I'm new to mythtv (Although I've had my eyes on it for a while) and that's the 0.23 version that comes with mythbuntu
[23:50:12] wagnerrp: note that if you use ISOs for anything, they will not work over storage groups on 0.23
[23:50:18] wagnerrp: they will on 0.24 when it gets released
[23:53:16] yatesy: good to know, ta
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[23:56:53] ** Beirdo hacks in his green bar removal for his 1080i H.264 previews **
[23:57:18] Beirdo: will be tested soon :)
[23:57:58] Beirdo: backend's available for restarting at 7pm
[23:58:29] Beirdo: although I don't technically need to restart as the actual work is done by mythpreviewgen
[23:59:33] elmojo: hmmm, anyone know how to, in trunk, manually download metadata for a movie in MythVideo?

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