Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, September 10th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:19]

Beirdo:

we were seemingly exhausting the pool, and that's not a good thing

[00:00:36]

Beirdo:

especially if we intend to move MORE stuff into the server :)

[00:01:03]

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[00:01:12]

Beirdo:

took all night to come up with a fairly firm concept... and it seems to work.

[00:01:34]

Beirdo:

what the heck is using all the worker threads... dunno

[00:01:45]

[R]:

all night? that's what she said

[00:01:47]

Beirdo:

we need a server-status page

[00:02:06]

Beirdo:

just like our good friend apache :)

[00:02:41]

Beirdo:

[R]: you need to watch some Monty Python

[00:02:43]

Beirdo:

:)

[00:02:46]

[R]:

lol

[00:02:51]

[R]:

ooo

[00:02:53]

[R]:

i could do that!

[00:03:01]

[R]:

except generating html from c++ isn't fun

[00:03:53]

kormoc:

welcome to the future

[00:04:02]

[R]:

lol

[00:04:02]

Beirdo:

it can be XML for all I care, I just want a way to get thread status... not sure what all we can put in there though

[00:05:21]

Beirdo:

like for each thread... busy/available... if busy, what socket number it's using, and we could even go so far as to what IP/port is on the other end of said socket

[00:08:42]

[R]:

that's another person that wants to do mythfrontend --jumppoint

[00:08:49]

[R]:

wasn't i going to write a patch for that a few weeks ago?

[00:09:47]

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[00:09:48]

sphery:

it should be xml to start with and transformed to html after to fit in with the rest of the backend http server stuff

[00:10:06]

[R]:

oh, good point

[00:10:11]

sphery:

(though ignore me if I missed something or you're talking about other stuff)

[00:10:14]

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[00:10:23]

[R]:

Beirdo: just like a list?

[00:10:29]

[R]:

Beirdo: how does apache do it?

[00:10:39]

Beirdo:

......

[00:10:40]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:11:04]

Beirdo:

I dunno, I'll scratch my head about it at a later date :)

[00:11:05]

[R]:

apache's looks lame

[00:12:38]

Beirdo:

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-easyStore-A . . . /B003KTN668/

[00:12:44]

Beirdo:

hmm, that one's kinda... cute

[00:13:02]

Beirdo:

frigging blue LEDs

[00:16:30]

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[00:19:33]

stuartm:

there's a sort of 'revo' styling there

[00:21:44]

Beirdo:

that box is barely larger than the 4 drives in it

[00:22:15]

Beirdo:

and from the pictures on newegg... had a big fan strapped to the side of the 4 drive bays

[00:22:27]

Beirdo:

like 3/4 the size of the box

[00:23:02]

Beirdo:

120mm maybe?

[00:23:41]

Beirdo:

screw a NAS box

[00:25:14]

wagnerrp:

so all these photographers have been excited about high-dynamic-range

[00:25:29]

wagnerrp:

using multiple shots at various shutter speeds

[00:25:37]

Beirdo:

O.M.G.

[00:25:49]

wagnerrp:

why cant we just up the bitrange of the the cameras?

[00:25:57]

Beirdo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856502002

[00:26:24]

wagnerrp:

i mean why couldnt we just make 36-bit or 48-bit cameras?

[00:26:26]

Beirdo:

any Camero lovers want a cute frontend box?

[00:26:58]

wagnerrp:

any Camero lover would probably wince at that

[00:27:01]

Beirdo:

comes in black or red

[00:27:35]

wagnerrp:

using a new one, instead of a 60s classic

[00:27:47]

Beirdo:

and... for kormoc... has a DVD-RW built in

[00:28:32]

kormoc:

yeah, and only $100 cheaper then a brand new mac mini with dual layer dvd+-rw and 4 gigs of ram

[00:28:34]

Beirdo:

looks like you can get a Camaro or a Corvette

[00:28:37]

kormoc:

what a good deal!

[00:29:02]

Beirdo:

but... if you happen to be a Chevy fan, you must admit that would be cool

[00:29:13]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: here you go... http://gizmodo.com/5533412/

[00:29:41]

Beirdo:

I'm NOT a Chevy fan... if that were BMW shell, I might be more interested

[00:29:58]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah, seen that

[00:30:28]

kormoc:

as I don't collect things usually... :)

[00:30:31]

wagnerrp:

got any welding equipment?

[00:30:41]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: games?

[00:30:42]

Beirdo:

kormoc: yeah. I hear ya

[00:30:59]

Beirdo:

but it is a neat little ION box if ya want an ION box

[00:31:37]

Beirdo:

men could hide a computer in their living room that nobody'd suspect to be a computer other than the cable bundle outta it's butt

[00:31:50]

Maliuta:

anyone using an Antec case and/or a Soundgraph iMon LCD/IR? trying to figure out the point of the stuff that has gone into the .35 kernel series for it (and all the other IR remotes)

[00:31:50]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, that's part of the exception to the usually

[00:32:43]

Beirdo:

omg. the headlights are the power LEDs.. the tail lights the HDD LEDs

[00:33:14]

Beirdo:

that's frigging hilarious

[00:33:35]

kormoc:

if only the wheels spun based on cpu load...

[00:34:12]

Azelphur:

hmm, my brothers just showed me windows 7 picking up on my mythtv setup, does mythtv do anything cool to make windows see it? :)

[00:34:23]

Beirdo:

yeah really.

[00:34:34]

kormoc:

upnp

[00:34:37]

wagnerrp:

Azelphur: it has a upnp server

[00:34:40]

Azelphur:

ah :)

[00:35:01]

Beirdo:

I am PC, and Windows 7 was a dumb idea. :)

[00:35:16]

Azelphur:

Beirdo: he's the only person with windows in the house, I routinely laugh at him :D

[00:35:29]

Azelphur:

and he routinely comes in here asking me to do stuff for him that he can't do on windows, hehe

[00:35:30]

wagnerrp:

i use windows

[00:35:50]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: it wouldn't be that bad if he didn't continually come in here asking to use my PC for stuff

[00:35:56]

kormoc:

I use windows too, I open when the apartment is hot and close them when it's cold

[00:36:09]

Azelphur:

kormoc: that's true, I use windows for that myself

[00:36:15]

wagnerrp:

what does he need to do on linux that windows cant?

[00:37:01]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: ummm, stay running for more than a couple days without prompting you to reboot?

[00:37:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:37:15]

wagnerrp:

only if you dont turn off auto-update

[00:37:16]

Azelphur:

wagnerrp: he's always in here asking me to run SIP services for him, grep files, run python stuff, that sort of thing

[00:37:26]

Azelphur:

Beirdo: haha

[00:37:51]

wagnerrp:

tell him to install cygwin, and/or the GNU windows toolkit

[00:38:23]

Beirdo:

or Ubuntu

[00:38:31]

Azelphur:

I usually opt for Beirdo's approach

[00:38:56]

Beirdo:

it's yer brother... gotta do it :)

[00:39:02]

Azelphur:

indeed

[00:39:14]

Azelphur:

Beirdo: also he does really funny stuff, like he still uses... IE6 *shudder*

[00:39:23]

Beirdo:

whaaaa?

[00:39:32]

Azelphur:

I know, I've tried to get him to move

[00:39:35]

Azelphur:

but he loves IE6 so.

[00:39:49]

** Beirdo hands Azelphur the hockey stick of education **

[00:39:54]

Azelphur:

he says he needs it for work, and this somehow warrants him doing all his daily browsing in it

[00:40:01]

Beirdo:

smack him until he gives in

[00:40:04]

Azelphur:

haha

[00:40:18]

wagnerrp:

no one loves ie6

[00:40:31]

Azelphur:

Beirdo: I kindly ommitted the release of google instant search for 2 days and then told him he'd have to not use IE6

[00:40:49]

Azelphur:

he now hates me for not telling him and is sad because he has to switch browser :D

[00:40:52]

Azelphur:

haha

[00:40:59]

Beirdo:

hah

[00:41:04]

Azelphur:

funny part: he calls himself a security expert

[00:41:09]

Azelphur:

he actually gets work too :o

[00:41:57]

Azelphur:

we played world of warcraft once, after about a week he decided it was time to go search for hacks and gold selling websites, on windows XP home with unpatched IE6.

[00:42:22]

Azelphur:

after he had his account cleaned out (Exactly like I told him he would) he spent the next day coming up to my room to do anything that required a password because he was afraid the keylogger would get him.

[00:42:28]

Azelphur:

:D

[00:43:16]

Azelphur:

this is all true, I swear to you. xD

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[01:20:25]

jpabq:

kormoc, I am trying to use mythweb to delete a couple of channels from my lineup, but it is not doing it. I click the check-box for the two channels, click the Save button, the screen is re-drawn and the channels are still there. Any ideas?

[01:21:10]

jpabq:

Just tried turning off the "visible" status, and that worked.

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[01:22:50]

wagnerrp:

jpabq: how many channels do you have?

[01:24:12]

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[01:25:17]

symptom:

has anyone installed mythtv onto DSL? and if so how does it affect the DSL boot time?

[01:25:41]

sphery:

symptom: /topic (you want #mythtv-users )

[01:25:47]

sphery:

oops, wrong channel

[01:25:52]

wagnerrp:

hehe

[01:25:56]

Beirdo:

OK, hometime

[01:25:56]

sphery:

you're in the right channel

[01:25:57]

sphery:

I'm not

[01:26:04]

symptom:

thats pretty funny

[01:26:11]

symptom:

almost bash worthy

[01:26:20]

sphery:

symptom: anyway, right channel, but I haven't tried DSL with MythTV

[01:26:42]

sphery:

that 3 and 4 are just way too close on my keyboard

[01:27:06]

sphery:

so when I went to switch to Alt-4 and hit Alt-3, I was lost

[01:27:20]

symptom:

yea some people have that same problem with 'a' and the caps lock key

[01:27:22]

wagnerrp:

symptom: between all the dependencies mythtv uses, it is a big install

[01:27:37]

wagnerrp:

theres not a whole lot of point to making a 'small' distro

[01:27:40]

sphery:

yeah, it would require DSL + lots of other packages

[01:27:54]

wagnerrp:

especially when multiGB memory cards are readily available

[01:27:58]

symptom:

im just concerened with the boot time which means services

[01:28:04]

wagnerrp:

and video data is going to be on the TB range

[01:28:15]

sphery:

isn't that a major focus of Ubuntu 10.10? (boot times?)

[01:28:24]

symptom:

it was for 9.04 or something

[01:28:30]

kormoc:

symptom, purely mysql and the backend, so pretty little change

[01:28:30]

wagnerrp:

the backend is going to require itself and mysql

[01:28:33]

kormoc:

jpabq, that's odd

[01:28:38]

wagnerrp:

the frontend is going to require X

[01:28:40]

symptom:

it was REALLY fast, then slowed down a little with subsequent releases

[01:28:54]

kormoc:

jpabq, are you deleting channels at the end of the list?

[01:28:57]

symptom:

i cant run it on fluxbox?

[01:29:03]

symptom:

im only interested in the FE for now

[01:29:08]

sphery:

symptom: I use fluxbox

[01:29:10]

tgm4883:

sphery, boot times it pretty much a focus on for every release

[01:29:12]

kormoc:

fluxbox is a WM for X

[01:29:18]

sphery:

(though if you want lightweight, RatPoison is the way to go)

[01:29:25]

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[01:29:27]

kormoc:

TWM! EvilWM!

[01:29:31]

kormoc:

and a billion others

[01:29:32]

wagnerrp:

X is the graphical interface used by linux

[01:29:40]

symptom:

RatPoison eh?

[01:29:42]

symptom:

never heard of it

[01:29:50]

wagnerrp:

window managers are just something that provides menus and controls focus for an X server

[01:30:01]

tgm4883:

sphery, It's not a quick process though, once everything transitions to upstart things should get better, but now we have to deal with race conditions, etc

[01:30:04]

sphery:

tgm4883: ah, ... I thought I heard another mention of it. Plus they're doing the other "not a tablet, but tablet-like-boot speeds" Ubuntu aren't they?

[01:30:22]

tgm4883:

not sure on the tablet like boot speeds thing

[01:30:42]

tgm4883:

I know they are trying to get boot time pretty low though. Honestly, my system boots pretty quick as it is

[01:30:57]

wagnerrp:

my system boots in seconds

[01:31:26]

wagnerrp:

erm... that would be standby i suppose

[01:31:30]

wagnerrp:

i dont reboot... :)

[01:31:33]

tgm4883:

yea

[01:31:46]

tgm4883:

mine boots in about 20, but I hardly ever reboot either

[01:32:21]

kormoc:

I have no idea how long mine takes to reboot

[01:33:37]

sphery:

tgm4883: Ubuntu Unity is what I was thinking of

[01:34:15]

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[01:35:39]

dewman:

iamlindoro, your channel scan patch worked beautiful... woohoo! =)

[01:46:20]

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[01:47:23]

wagnerrp:

whats this about nick morrott having issues on r26197?

[01:49:17]

sphery:

heh, I was considering checking in a change... I could make it so it breaks something for him?

[01:51:39]

kormoc:

the future is known! you have to follow the path set before us or risk universal reality collapse!

[01:51:54]

dewman:

so when two channels share the same mplex id and one channel gets scanned correctly and the 2nd channel does not get picked up in the scan, should I try to scan the frequency? I am only missing one channel (a&ehd)

[01:52:45]

dewman:

I can see the missing channel using the hdhomerun config..

[01:53:02]

[R]:

you get aehd on qam?

[01:53:04]

[R]:

LUCKY

[01:53:11]

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[01:53:25]

dewman:

yep (small mom and pop cable company)

[01:54:05]

kormoc:

nothing like seeing every bead of sweat on James Lipton's brow during Inside the Actor's Studio

[01:54:17]

[R]:

haha

[01:54:21]

[R]:

i like the one on SNL

[01:54:24]

sphery:

kormoc: heh, I just watched Paycheck last night (and that was pretty much its central idea--though their trying to change it is what caused it)

[01:54:48]

kormoc:

I did enjoy that movie

[01:55:04]

sphery:

yeah, I had seen it before, but didn't remember enough detail so re-watched it at 1.5x

[01:55:10]

kormoc:

and I just watched Hot Tub Time Machine and really really enjoyed it

[01:55:13]

sphery:

was worth a 2nd watch

[01:55:17]

sphery:

but it's no 12 Monkeys

[01:55:20]

[R]:

kormoc: i just saw it too.. i thought it was pretty sweet

[01:55:20]

kormoc:

indeed

[01:56:16]

kormoc:

Normally I might 'heh' IRL when watching comedy, but HTTM had me simpson style "HAHAHAHA" at times

[01:56:49]

sphery:

I wasn't sure if that one would be worth watching

[01:56:54]

sphery:

sounds like it is

[01:57:09]

kormoc:

I'd really recommend it

[01:57:51]

wagnerrp:

what is a 'timestamp' log?

[01:58:00]

wagnerrp:

i mean what would that be used for?

[01:58:12]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, a log of when your timestamps change!

[01:58:59]

kormoc:

1284083927: was 1284083926 now 1284083927

[02:00:55]

dewman:

wagnerrp, it would look like this. http://wwwx.cs.unc.edu/~sjguy/CompPhoto/TimestampCollection.jpg

[02:01:46]

wagnerrp:

says 'conditional data driven messages', but i have no idea what that would mean

[02:04:37]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, sounds like it logs when things change

[02:06:01]

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[02:08:50]

jams:

you know dot matrix printers are surprisingly expensive, even the used ones on ebay

[02:12:27]

sphery:

yeah, because generally those for applications in which they're used, there's no alternative--i.e. need impact printing for carbon copies, etc.

[02:14:18]

jams:

yeah..still i didn't expect them to be more then laser and inkjet

[02:14:53]

jams:

probably a stupid idea, but for whatever reason I am thinking of buying one to use

[02:15:23]

kormoc:

they'll last well past world war 7

[02:15:41]

jams:

thats what i'm thinking, and they don't suck up ink

[02:15:50]

sphery:

yeah, I think I saw them connected to a few of the terminals in Fallout 3

[02:16:12]

sphery:

if you get a re-inker, you can run those ribbons to tatters

[02:17:36]

jams:

my hp printer tried to stop working on me last week. It refused to use the black ink. HP support told me to buy a new printer

[02:17:43]

sphery:

I have a refill kit for my inkjet, but I don't use my inkjet a lot, and my last cartridges got "expired" by HP's, "If it's >2yrs from manufacture date of the cartridge, cause a single page draft, black only, text printout to take >5min," technology that's "protecting" my printer.

[02:18:04]

jams:

after hours of frustration I finally got it working again, but giving it a good smack

[02:18:09]

kormoc:

I hate printers

[02:18:15]

sphery:

Had to throw away an 84% full color cartridge and a 45% full black cartridge

[02:18:37]

jams:

i tell you I'm done with hp printers for a while

[02:18:37]

sphery:

I hate printer manufacturers who sue companies trying to make a competitive market for ink sales

[02:18:45]

kormoc:

I keep looking for a small color laser, but they don't make small ones

[02:18:54]

jams:

not in color

[02:19:01]

sphery:

yeah, HP has good drivers

[02:19:09]

jams:

brother makes a decent b/w laser

[02:19:10]

wagnerrp:

s/good/massive/

[02:19:23]

sphery:

unfortunately, they (and Lexmark) are on a lawsuit/DMCA spree

[02:19:43]

jams:

hehe the only reason i purchased this hp printer is because I knew it would work well with cups

[02:19:52]

sphery:

jams: maybe your brother can get you a good deal on toner for it--family discount?

[02:20:15]

jams:

heh

[02:20:15]

sphery:

yeah, that's why I threw out my old Lexmark and got an HP... Drivers for CUPS.

[02:20:29]

sphery:

at least I went from evil to evil, though :)

[02:20:45]

sphery:

so it's not really selling my soul--as it was already sold

[02:20:52]

knightr:

jams: Yep, really satified with my Brother HL-2170W and the new fax, copier, scanner and (color) printer seems very nice too...

[02:21:14]

knightr:

(the new printer is a Brother too..)

[02:21:36]

knightr:

(got it today...)

[02:21:41]

sphery:

jams: fwiw, I did hear that over a few toner cartridges, the brothers may turn out more expensive because of replacing other consumables that are replaced with the toner cartridges on the hp

[02:21:44]

jams:

nice

[02:21:46]

sphery:

don't remember details...

[02:22:12]

knightr:

spery: apparently in color it's pretty costly but I mostly do b&w...

[02:22:32]

jams:

thought that was inkjets..guess it could apply to lasers I really don't know the details

[02:22:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: fwiw, do you do enough printing to burn through a laser toner cart before the printer dies?

[02:22:47]

knightr:

sphery: (oops, typo above) as for the toners, one of the place I'm getting them from has very good prices

[02:23:01]

sphery:

yeah, I don't know that it's a big difference--may just be for office-level duty cycles--but that's what I had heard a few years back

[02:23:04]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand a wireless printer

[02:23:33]

sphery:

wagnerrp: samba on board so you can use it from any computer on the 'net including your laptops?

[02:23:49]

wagnerrp:

i understand a networked printer, ive got one

[02:23:54]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand a wireless printer

[02:23:56]

sphery:

now the HP e-mail printers are another story

[02:24:14]

sphery:

why not wireless--it's not like you need a lot of bandwidth?

[02:24:22]

wagnerrp:

because it doesnt move

[02:24:32]

knightr:

http://blogs.canoe.ca/canoetech/product-revie . . . mily-affair/ (Canadian prices... This is the printer I got but it was on sale for a lot less than the lowest price they mention...)

[02:24:41]

jams:

eh I use the wireless

[02:25:02]

jams:

granted it is right near a network jack, but that wasn't always the case

[02:25:05]

sphery:

the e-mail ones are the "Since Apple doesn't want you to print from your iPad, we'll help you do so." (But I don't like the idea of all print jobs passing through HP's server--and I don't have anything to hide from them.)

[02:25:14]

kormoc:

I don't like network printers/wireless printers cause you can only print, not scan/etc

[02:25:19]

knightr:

(estimated at $0.055 in black and $0.23 in colour...)

[02:25:32]

jams:

kormoc- you can with the hp printers

[02:25:34]

sphery:

I think the wireless are useful primarily for people who haven't wired their houses

[02:25:35]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: i can scan from my networked scanner just fine

[02:25:44]

sphery:

and for whom the printer and router aren't close

[02:26:14]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: with the full hp drivers installed, i can use the local controls to 'scan to X application on Y computer'

[02:26:28]

wagnerrp:

or i can use the SANE interface to manually scan

[02:26:33]

sphery:

though scanning from a networked printer/scanner doesn't help when you still have to walk into the other room to load the scanner

[02:26:35]

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[02:27:01]

jams:

some hp printers even have a webpage you can access on the printer to start a scan

[02:27:17]

sphery:

jams: CUSS? :)

[02:27:39]

wagnerrp:

jams: although its a pretty ugly looking page

[02:27:51]

wagnerrp:

and slow, painfully slow

[02:27:52]

jams:

yep but it works

[02:28:28]

wagnerrp:

i can do SNMP monitoring on my scanner :)

[02:28:33]

jams:

mine even has a handly button to "order supplies"

[02:28:53]

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[02:29:14]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, not on OS X

[02:29:58]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: dont know about OS X, but the SANE/TWAIN controls work on both linux and windows

[02:30:36]

kormoc:

Sane support doesn't really exist on OS X anymore. Adobe dropped it from photoshop, none of apple's products support it

[02:30:52]

wagnerrp:

last i checked, the 'scan to program' only worked on linux

[02:30:56]

wagnerrp:

erm... windows

[02:31:05]

wagnerrp:

it wasnt supported by hplip

[02:36:51]

knightr:

iamlindoro: Are you there?

[02:39:28]

sphery:

It's me, Margaret.

[02:39:52]

wagnerrp:

deifying him already?

[02:40:10]

knightr:

kormoc, sphery or wagnerrp: Robert aksed us to help with triage but I'm not quite sure what I should do with http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8727 , any ideas? Set it new, assigned to danielk (like it was) or leave it like that?

[02:40:11]

sphery:

heh

[02:40:27]

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[02:40:54]

sphery:

good question... I didn't notice that one was closed when I got the e-mail.

[02:40:57]

wagnerrp:

knightr: if you dont know and dont feel comfortable taking a guess yet, leave it for someone else

[02:41:03]

sphery:

it's in the setup code that no one really cares much about

[02:41:19]

sphery:

and that we'll be replacing for 0.25 (if all goes well)

[02:42:11]

wagnerrp:

knightr: if you can reproduce it, go ahead and open it back up... if not, just leave it to danielk

[02:42:21]

knightr:

yep but for now its busted and I'm pretty sure Nick Morrot doesn't do that for nothing, he's knows Myth pretty well...

[02:42:39]

wagnerrp:

not as well as you think

[02:42:44]

sphery:

I'm guessing it's just another occurrence of the same issue that's causing the (first) issue at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6637

[02:42:50]

knightr:

wagnerrp: It's close though so will he look at it?

[02:42:50]

wagnerrp:

he /is/ running a version four commits in the future :)

[02:44:17]

knightr:

wagnerrp: Good catch.. (-; Must be a typo though... (-;

[02:45:22]

knightr:

wagnerrp: DVB stuff, unless I had a satellite dish, it doesn't apply here

[02:46:23]

knightr:

(North America)

[02:51:30]

sphery:

knightr: I put a comment on that ticket. THanks for pointing it out.

[02:52:07]

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[02:52:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: nothing is saved until you hit 'finish'

[02:52:17]

bribroder:

hey guys, question for you all: how many tuners can mythtv handle before it gets flaky?

[02:52:21]

wagnerrp:

there should be no card in the database to set the setting on

[02:52:44]

wagnerrp:

bribroder: no one has really tested it, how many were you planning?

[02:52:51]

sphery:

oh, I see what he's saying

[02:52:57]

sphery:

it's just when you leave that page and go back

[02:53:00]

wagnerrp:

anyway, i see the same behavior there

[02:53:05]

sphery:

yeah

[02:53:12]

knightr:

sphery: Thanks!

[02:53:33]

wagnerrp:

(on ATSC)

[02:53:47]

wagnerrp:

all DVB type tuners seem to suffer

[02:54:07]

kormoc:

bribroder, I've heard of somewhere between 15 and 18, but with our architecture, there shouldn't be any issues on myth's side

[02:54:28]

wagnerrp:

bribroder: the real issue becomes the scheduler

[02:55:14]

wagnerrp:

youre going to quickly ramp up in time spent scheduling shows as you add an excessive number of tuners

[02:55:20]

bribroder:

wagnerrp, let's say 50

[02:55:23]

sphery:

sorry all for the trac spam

[02:56:03]

bribroder:

i'm wondering how many machines i need to handle that many concurrent channels

[02:56:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the card isnt supposed to be created until you hit finish on the main card

[02:56:39]

sphery:

right

[02:56:46]

wagnerrp:

but if you go into 'recording options' and hit finish there

[02:56:50]

wagnerrp:

it creates the card immediately

[02:56:51]

sphery:

so there's no way to write it to the db until after

[02:57:07]

wagnerrp:

and then refreshes it to the default values for the timeouts

[02:57:11]

sphery:

so that means we need new code to store the value temporily in a single case

[02:57:11]

[R]:

bribroder: you have 50 channels with content worth watching at the same time?

[02:57:18]

wagnerrp:

something like that

[02:57:26]

sphery:

meaning that unless someone writes a patch, users will just have to look closely for 0.24 :)

[02:57:42]

wagnerrp:

[R]: sounds like hes trying to build his own snapstream box, without having to spend the money on buying one

[02:57:49]

[R]:

snapstream?

[02:58:04]

kormoc:

bribroder, how many machines depends on how you're capturing, where you are storing, etc

[02:58:05]

sphery:

bribroder: agreed, MythTV is not the application for you

[02:58:06]

bribroder:

[R], my org uses snapstream now, and i'm not loving it

[02:58:19]

wagnerrp:

snapstream has a line of commercial DVRs for the purposes of recording everything on a range of channels

[02:58:38]

[R]:

but that brings me back to my statement of there existing 50 channels worth watching?

[02:58:46]

sphery:

bribroder: You'd be better served having several MythTV systems (disconnected, non-interacting, non-communicating) that each handle some small subset of those channels

[02:58:50]

bribroder:

that's our current load

[02:58:53]

sphery:

since you're trying to record everything

[02:58:58]

sphery:

or, better, get a snapstream

[02:59:02]

sphery:

and do it right :)

[02:59:18]

wagnerrp:

bribroder, sphery: or writing some special code into the scheduler to shortcut that whole process for the purposes of recording everything

[02:59:20]

sphery:

this being what wagnerrp is talking about: http://www.snapstream.com/enterprise/

[02:59:35]

kormoc:

sphery, he said they have one already and he doesn't like it

[02:59:42]

sphery:

oh, missed that

[02:59:50]

bribroder:

i'm looking around at other options

[03:00:15]

sphery:

MythTV is designed as a home-use DVR, not as an enterprice media recorder

[03:00:28]

wagnerrp:

you want it for the same purpose? recording everything, all the time?

[03:00:41]

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[03:00:43]

sphery:

it could be bent to fit, but it's like trying to use MS Excel to create a professional quality brochure for publication--it's just not the right tool for the job

[03:01:13]

tank-man:

interesting, says 'the daily show' uses that snapstream

[03:01:49]

[R]:

to get clips? or what?

[03:01:50]

kormoc:

are they recording camera streams?

[03:02:02]

bribroder:

wagnerrp, pretty much the same purpose. the snapstreams have a really difficult time transcoding and recording simultaneously, and i'm thinking that distributing that kind of load across a few computers would help a lot

[03:02:55]

wagnerrp:

at the very least, you would want to rewrite the scheduler for that specific purpose

[03:03:09]

bribroder:

also looking at just outsourcing the transcoding to some desktops and forego snapstream's showsqueeze

[03:03:16]

wagnerrp:

and i have no idea how much work that would be

[03:03:26]

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[03:03:34]

wagnerrp:

but for transcoding, you can run 'mythjobqueue' on any machine you want

[03:04:12]

wagnerrp:

it will pick the first task available that it is allowed to run, and do it

[03:04:28]

kormoc:

rewriting the scheduler wouldn't be hard

[03:04:32]

wagnerrp:

it only needs filesystem access to the content

[03:05:13]

sphery:

what parts of MythTV would you need?

[03:05:57]

bribroder:

just for the transcoding?

[03:06:08]

wagnerrp:

if youre looking to have searchable captions like the snapstream stuff, youll need to do that externally with ccextract

[03:06:14]

bribroder:

i would probably do something like a minimal install of ubuntu and use ccextractor

[03:06:17]

wagnerrp:

and youll have to manage your own database for that stuff

[03:06:21]

sphery:

Why not just use something much simpler to start/stop recordings using the schedule in the listings (even using dd/cron) and some script to transcode

[03:06:42]

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[03:06:51]

sphery:

I mean the UI for MythTV can't possibly be the right UI for having recorded 10M shows across 50 channels for 24/7

[03:07:09]

sphery:

then you can organize however--by channel, by date, by title, by ...

[03:07:36]

sphery:

anyway... just my thought.

[03:07:38]

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[03:07:52]

sphery:

I'd think that the Watch Recordings screen would get unmanageable fast

[03:08:09]

sphery:

(speaking as someone with nearly 1300 recordings, I've started to see unmanageable)

[03:08:13]

bribroder:

sphery, yeah, and i probably can't get away from using the snapstreams. i'll just work out a networked machine to run transcoding and backups

[03:08:18]

sphery:

and that's nothing compared to what you'd have

[03:08:43]

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[03:09:00]

sphery:

I wish I could say mythtranscode would be a great program for the transcoding, but I have more failures with it than successes

[03:09:04]

bribroder:

we process about 3–5TB a week

[03:09:08]

sphery:

it needs some TLC

[03:09:26]

sphery:

so in this environment is the transcoding for space savings?

[03:10:03]

sphery:

Just wondering--for MythTV users, I tell them transcoding to save space is a waste of electricity compared to the cost of new media. In an enterprise situation like you're talking about, though, that may not be the case. :)

[03:10:31]

sphery:

You'd have a /lot/ of storage space used by 50 channels continuously recorded

[03:10:50]

bribroder:

we're building a db with transcripts and mini versions of the archive

[03:11:05]

sphery:

ah, cool

[03:11:19]

bribroder:

it's only about 60T of live storage, but we have on the order of several hundreds of TB archived

[03:11:32]

sphery:

yeah, I figured there's no way you'd have it all online

[03:12:00]

** Beirdo yawns **

[03:12:05]

Beirdo:

OK, finally got home

[03:12:10]

sphery:

and managing the offline storage would definitely be a reason to want to minimize space usage

[03:12:11]

bribroder:

would love to get them to use open source software and see how far it can go

[03:12:23]

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[03:12:24]

Beirdo:

police tape all over the place at 3rd & Pine

[03:12:50]

sphery:

yeah... as often as we have people come in here asking about using MythTV in this type of scenario, I'd bet you could start up a project and get a lot of others working on it with you :)

[03:12:55]

bribroder:

you're definitely right though, transcoding is the major holdup in the whole process

[03:13:31]

sphery:

it seems many want an open source capability like that--just no one has made the first version and started taking input on it

[03:15:02]

bribroder:

i haven't got any serious experience as a coder, so i'm usually limited to packages and config files

[03:15:39]

bribroder:

but there's enough out there now, aside from schedulers

[03:15:43]

wagnerrp:

most of this could be thrown together with some interpreted language and external tools

[03:16:44]

sphery:

wagnerrp: 1289 recordings to 1176

[03:16:57]

wagnerrp:

what did you delete?

[03:16:59]

sphery:

wonder how many GB that 113 shows was

[03:17:04]

wagnerrp:

5 seasons long

[03:17:34]

sphery:

OK, before I say what I deleted, I have to remind you how I use MythTV... I record every single new series, then decide later whether to watch or delete without watching...

[03:17:42]

sphery:

This was 90210 and Gossip Girl.

[03:17:51]

sphery:

both without watching

[03:18:01]

wagnerrp:

sure... :P

[03:18:19]

[R]:

but you KNOW those are gonna be useless

[03:18:27]

sphery:

funny thing, though, is that my preview images are flashing like crazy, now, as it goes through and deletes shows and sends change events to the frontend

[03:18:43]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[03:18:53]

sphery:

[R]: yeah... and it must have been 3 seasons of GG and 2 of 90210, so you'd think I'd have deleted them before

[03:18:58]

sphery:

it's just that I didn't need the space

[03:18:59]

[R]:

lol

[03:19:02]

sphery:

and I had the tuner space

[03:19:17]

sphery:

but this year both of them cause a conflict of shows I may actually decide to watch

[03:19:47]

[R]:

i'm still on the lookup for something i can use multirec for

[03:19:52]

[R]:

but the overlap on my channels sucks

[03:20:15]

bribroder:

is there a legitimate best make or model of tuner to use with ubuntu varieties and ATSC/QAM video?

[03:20:27]

[R]:

legitimate?

[03:20:38]

sphery:

now that my 113 flashes are done, it must be done with the open-and-delete... truncate at approx 2min/GB, so wonder how long that will take.

[03:20:56]

[R]:

bribroder: the linuxtv website shows all the various cards that work

[03:21:02]

wagnerrp:

'slow delete' is THAT slow?

[03:21:06]

sphery:

!url tuners

[03:21:06]

MythLogBot:

tuners: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hardwar . . . _Information

[03:21:27]

bribroder:

[R], I mean, any best choices you all would care to recommend :)

[03:21:35]

[R]:

bribroder: it dumps an mpeg stream

[03:21:38]

[R]:

not that complicated

[03:21:45]

[R]:

if it works it works

[03:21:50]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's 4kiB/0.5s or higher. It's just that my max recording is < 4kiB/0.5s, so mine uses the min.

[03:22:12]

wagnerrp:

for your purposes, dual tuner and PCIe would probably be preferable

[03:22:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: in 0.21-fixes, it could have been as slow as 7min/GB

[03:22:30]

wagnerrp:

bribroder: when you ask about QAM, understand that you will not be able to record anything encrypted

[03:22:32]

sphery:

(and mine was almost that slow)

[03:22:35]

Beirdo:

OK, first... watch Covert Affairs

[03:22:46]

knightr:

boy I hate this when Trac changes the status by itself... I added a comment and the status got switched back to new...

[03:22:51]

Beirdo:

then maybe try to make this frontend startup slowly

[03:22:57]

Beirdo:

to new?

[03:23:06]

Beirdo:

normally it goes back to assigned

[03:23:13]

sphery:

wagnerrp: oh, but mine is also processed in parallel (2 separate backends with separate storage), so should take less time :)

[03:23:52]

knightr:

Beirdo: The ticket was unassigned, I was asking for additionnal info (see http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8902 )

[03:23:59]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[03:24:00]

sphery:

heh, it did a Reschedule for id 0 after each deletion

[03:24:08]

bribroder:

[R], thanks for the links

[03:24:23]

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[03:24:24]

sphery:

even though the rule doesn't exist anymore...

[03:24:29]

Beirdo:

sphery, fun, eh?

[03:24:32]

sphery:

yeah

[03:24:41]

sphery:

just glad it's not a poor little atom ;)

[03:24:59]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:25:04]

Beirdo:

you are relentless :)

[03:25:11]

sphery:

:)

[03:25:13]

bribroder:

wagnerrp, they pay for cable boxes fortunately

[03:25:42]

wagnerrp:

bribroder: you dont get QAM out of a cable box

[03:25:47]

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[03:26:32]

sphery:

PVR-x50, HVR-1600, or HD-PVR :)

[03:26:38]

bribroder:

i asked about atsc/qam

[03:26:59]

[R]:

you dont get ATSC out of a cable box either

[03:26:59]

wagnerrp:

yes, im saying you cannot record off a cable box with a QAM tuner

[03:27:10]

wagnerrp:

you can only do analog capture

[03:28:17]

knightr:

sphery: soon HVR-2250 I believe.. Steven Toth added preliminary analog support...

[03:28:38]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like that one will be a boon for North American users

[03:28:50]

wagnerrp:

he did about a month and a half back

[03:28:56]

sphery:

I've heard it works if you get the drivers and figure out how to install them in your distro

[03:29:00]

wagnerrp:

seems there is some issue with autodetection in mythtv though

[03:29:06]

sphery:

ohhh

[03:29:18]

knightr:

not sure it's fully stable though, have you seen the number of posts on his blog?

[03:29:21]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt recognize the card as IVTV, so you have to type it in manually

[03:30:33]

knightr:

http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?p=1443

[03:31:11]

wagnerrp:

looks like a bunch of shows start back up in a week

[03:32:26]

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[03:32:31]

[R]:

i think like everyhting is starting on the 23rd

[03:33:04]

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[03:33:27]

wagnerrp:

my first is the 19th

[03:34:11]

[R]:

i really need to set up internet access for my mythweb... and a way to get my router to WOL my backend

[03:34:21]

knightr:

BTW, I have one here which I haven't been able to use yet (UHF antenna suffered too much damage and can't seem to find an installer) so if there's anything I can test on Myth's side for analog support, let me know...

[03:35:11]

knightr:

BTW, how does he handle the fact that the analog and digital part of the card share resources, isn't that supposed to cause problems?

[03:35:20]

wagnerrp:

he doesnt, we do

[03:35:43]

wagnerrp:

you add both parts of the card to an 'input group'

[03:35:49]

wagnerrp:

so mythtv knows not to use both at the same time

[03:36:21]

wagnerrp:

apparently you also have to allow it to unlock the digital card

[03:36:36]

wagnerrp:

sphery: do you know /why/ we lock digital tuners when not in use

[03:36:39]

knightr:

wasn't he supposed to do something on his side, I seem to remember he said something about that on the linux-media mailing list...

[03:36:50]

wagnerrp:

oh, i dont know about that

[03:37:02]

knightr:

wagnerrp: Thanks, did not know that...

[03:37:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: if you enable the open-on-demand setting, we don't

[03:37:41]

wagnerrp:

did anyone watch Cloverfield?

[03:37:48]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yes, I loved it

[03:37:50]

knightr:

wagnerrp: hold on, trying to find this...

[03:37:51]

wagnerrp:

sphery: right, but why is that an option?

[03:37:59]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I just didn't realize I loved it until the day after I watched it

[03:38:31]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to keep the tuner card locked?

[03:38:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I don't know for sure. Perhaps the "make sure no one can steal a tuner no matter what" mentality versus the "well, since MythTV isn't using it, I should be able to use it for something else" mentality

[03:38:49]

wagnerrp:

if nothing else, thats going to be something to remember during the settings rewrite

[03:39:03]

wagnerrp:

if a tuner is in an input group, it must be 'on demand'

[03:39:08]

sphery:

(where the latter may mean that you haven't released the card when MythTV needs it, which is A Bad Thing)

[03:39:50]

sphery:

also note that active EIT scanning can make an "open on demand" card appear to be not opened on demand (i.e. users often forget about the EIT demand)

[03:40:38]

wagnerrp:

just ask about the movie as FX is playing it sunday

[03:46:36]

wagnerrp:

The Event... seems like someone is trying to make flash forward again

[03:49:07]

wagnerrp:

[R]: you have a list somewhere of what shows are out this season?

[03:49:29]

[R]:

wagnerrp: the zap2it tvlistings website actually does

[03:49:30]

[R]:

saw that today

[03:49:43]

[R]:

tvlistings.zap2it.com

[03:49:55]

[R]:

and they seperate new series and new season

[03:52:44]

Beirdo:

knock on wood... I haven't seen any ALSA underruns...

[03:53:20]

Beirdo:

using the patch from #8899

[03:55:24]

wagnerrp:

anyone see nikita?

[03:56:02]

[R]:

is it just a remake of la femme nikita?

[03:56:11]

wagnerrp:

seems so

[03:56:19]

Beirdo:

another remake?

[03:56:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah... fourth?

[03:56:32]

Beirdo:

I think so

[03:57:25]

Beirdo:

jeez. frigging users

[03:57:26]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:57:34]

iamlindoro:

Oh, yeah, I have that recording, Maggie Q = super hot

[03:57:48]

Beirdo:

#8872. I think the second dude did NOT restart his backend

[03:58:22]

wagnerrp:

did realize that started already

[03:58:27]

wagnerrp:

but it should replay tomorrow

[03:58:49]

Beirdo:

and Undercovers is now scheduled

[03:58:50]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:00:26]

Beirdo:

OK, spoke too soon

[04:00:33]

Beirdo:

2010-09–09 21:00:15.568 ALSA, Error: WriteAudio: buffer underrun

[04:00:40]

Beirdo:

2010-09–09 21:00:15.888 PlaybackBox Error: Ignoring PREVIEW_SUCCESS, item no longer on screen.

[04:01:01]

Beirdo:

can somebody tell me why the PBB isn't blocked during playback?

[04:01:55]

Beirdo:

2010-09–09 21:00:16.065 HandlePreviewEvent() — too few args

[04:02:23]

Beirdo:

and that looks... like someone didn't finish their debugging, or I haven't recompiled since they did :)

[04:04:09]

wagnerrp:

why do these people think their router has anything to do with UPNP?

[04:04:20]

[R]:

wagnerrp: cuz buzzwords

[04:04:28]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:04:31]

[R]:

wagnerrp: the router does upnp port forwarding... chop off port forwarding... upnp

[04:04:33]

[R]:

it must be the same thing

[04:04:48]

Beirdo:

unless it's going THROUGH the router, it can't affect squat :)

[04:05:21]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: i suppose their switch could be doing something /really/ stupid

[04:05:32]

Beirdo:

and if it were, they'd need to do work to see the UPnP media server as they'd need to turn on multicast

[04:05:33]

wagnerrp:

and blocking all traffic on 239/4

[04:05:38]

[R]:

Beirdo: well the router is a switch... so techncially its going "through" it...

[04:05:45]

Beirdo:

not really

[04:05:57]

Beirdo:

a router isn't a switch

[04:06:02]

Beirdo:

and a switch isn't a router

[04:06:08]

[R]:

the router has a switch*

[04:06:09]

[R]:

better?

[04:06:11]

Beirdo:

the same box often contains both

[04:06:37]

Beirdo:

and these days, perhaps even the same chip

[04:06:47]

Beirdo:

but they are two totally separate functions

[04:07:00]

Beirdo:

the switch won't block squat

[04:07:09]

Beirdo:

or it's a craptacular switch

[04:07:29]

Beirdo:

the router needs extra work to support multicasting, and some just don't do it

[04:07:30]

sphery:

this is a great idea: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/09/3d-illus . . . udes/?hpt=C2

[04:07:42]

kormoc:

Only in Vancouver...

[04:07:46]

sphery:

start out with a fake image that people see as a 3D child while driving--then they drive over it

[04:07:56]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: the switch could simply not handle 239/4 traffic

[04:07:57]

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[04:08:02]

sphery:

soon, "Oh, that's another one of those 3D images!" thunk!

[04:08:04]

sphery:

oops

[04:08:10]

Beirdo:

not if it's a switch

[04:08:18]

Beirdo:

L2 switch that is

[04:08:26]

Beirdo:

it has no concept of IPs

[04:08:30]

Beirdo:

only MAC addrs

[04:09:01]

Beirdo:

although some are smarter than others

[04:09:02]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:10:08]

Beirdo:

sphery: I wonder how many parallel black streaks will lead up to that decal

[04:10:31]

knightr:

[04:10:36]

wagnerrp:

i wonder how many accidents are caused as such

[04:10:52]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah... I think teaching people to drive over kids is the real problem--not so much what they do the first time.

[04:10:59]

sphery:

Beirdo: it's those crazy Canucks

[04:11:26]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:11:42]

Beirdo:

those crazy BC potheads

[04:11:43]

sphery:

wonder if they'll put those on Parclo's

[04:11:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:11:59]

kormoc:

sphery, they're solving our over population issue one car at a time

[04:12:05]

sphery:

heh

[04:12:50]

sphery:

taking out the cars might be a good plan--but when the drivers get complacent and plow over real kids, it may be solving it with the wrong people

[04:13:37]

kormoc:

nah

[04:13:47]

kormoc:

cause then the drivers go to jail forever and can't procreate as well

[04:13:53]

sphery:

heh

[04:14:03]

kormoc:

they also won't be fighting for jobs (More jobs available!)

[04:14:03]

bribroder:

you guys think that comcast would hand out cablecards i could use in a compatible pc tuner?

[04:14:16]

sphery:

bribroder: not yet

[04:14:26]

sphery:

and when they do, you'll only get the "copy freely" channels

[04:14:28]

kormoc:

bribroder, and even if they did, it'll be very limited use unless you're using MCE

[04:14:48]

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[04:14:48]

bribroder:

grump grump grump

[04:14:57]

sphery:

bribroder: you'll want to read up on the HDHomeRun Prime and the Ceton (something or other) cards

[04:15:08]

bribroder:

looking at ceton cards now

[04:15:12]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . rch_type=AND

[04:15:16]

bribroder:

no ubu support, of course

[04:15:23]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . rch_type=AND

[04:15:25]

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[04:15:34]

kormoc:

ubu?

[04:15:35]

sphery:

Ceton cards have no MythTV support, yet

[04:15:40]

bribroder:

ubuntu

[04:15:43]

kormoc:

ooh

[04:15:48]

bribroder:

and ubuntu derivatives

[04:15:49]

sphery:

The HDHR Prime will have support in MythTV 0.24 (but not 0.23)

[04:15:51]

bribroder:

for the extremely lazy :p

[04:16:12]

bribroder:

sounds like some interesting possibilities

[04:16:18]

sphery:

Ceton may not have support until 0.25

[04:16:19]

[R]:

there is no possibliities

[04:16:23]

[R]:

you can watch unecnrypted

[04:16:25]

[R]:

big deal

[04:16:26]

bribroder:

otherwise, i can record analog from the cable box?

[04:16:38]

kormoc:

bribroder, happauge hdpvr

[04:16:42]

sphery:

[R]: you can watch some encrypted stuff that's not marked copy never/copy freely

[04:17:02]

[R]:

which is nothing usually

[04:17:09]

kormoc:

there's no usually yet

[04:17:26]

sphery:

and, yeah, HDPVR is the only "total" solution to HDTV for cable and satellite

[04:18:01]

sphery:

Your HBOs and Showtimes and such will probably never be copy freely. Your Discovery HD might be...

[04:18:35]

sphery:

But an HD-PVR (or other analog capture approaches--including the SDTV ones, like PVR-150/500 and HVR-1600 analog) lets you watch everything your cable box outputs

[04:18:49]

[R]:

i should try firewire again

[04:18:56]

sphery:

with cablecard, you're still at the mercy of your cable co

[04:20:53]

bribroder:

the HD-PVR is analog?

[04:21:18]

[R]:

it records analog component output into mpeg4

[04:22:15]

bribroder:

so as long as your cable box has component outs, you'd get the best quality available right now?

[04:23:27]

[R]:

if it doesnt have component, then its not hd, and its pointless

[04:23:34]

[R]:

thers nothing to say about "Quality"

[04:23:40]

[R]:

the hdpvr is the ONLY way to record hd

[04:23:46]

[R]:

that you can only get by using your cable box

[04:23:58]

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[04:25:10]

** Beirdo wonders why the PBB is receiving PREVIEW_SUCCESS while he's watching TV **

[04:26:00]

sphery:

yeah, wouldn't that be more of an INTRAVIEW_SUCCESS?

[04:26:24]

Beirdo:

why do we request a preview when the PBB isn't even visible?

[04:26:36]

Beirdo:

thats what's messing up my playback

[04:26:46]

Beirdo:

this time :)

[04:26:53]

sphery:

if you set a bookmark and have the preview from bookmark setting enabled (or was it removed and made always on?)

[04:27:00]

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[04:27:12]

sphery:

it will regen preview so that it's current for all the other frontends on your network and they see the change immediately

[04:27:13]

Beirdo:

no, it's for recordings that started while I was playing another

[04:27:37]

sphery:

ahhh... that's probably related to the issues gbee has been seeing

[04:27:41]

Beirdo:

I don't need no stinking previews generated :)

[04:27:46]

Beirdo:

I would think so

[04:27:59]

atlanta800:

Having problems getting my new HVR-1600 to tune to all of the local HD digital channels on my Comcast service (3 of the 7 I want are probed and work fine). Can someone help?

[04:28:14]

Beirdo:

and the HandlePreviewEvent() — too few args is interesting too

[04:28:42]

[R]:

atlanta800: how do you know you get 7?

[04:29:33]

atlanta800:

[R]: I borrowed a digital tuner box from a friend, and it picks up 7 HD channels, and several other SD (but still digital) channels

[04:29:36]

Beirdo:

anyways, enough idle curiosity for the moment

[04:29:53]

[R]:

atlanta800: what is a "digital tuner box"?

[04:30:01]

Beirdo:

time to see if I can make the frontend startup slowly so we can fix that

[04:30:44]

atlanta800:

[R]: It's just a generic motorola box, no card or anything, doesn't pick up encrypted channels, I can get the model no. if you'd like

[04:30:52]

[R]:

oh

[04:30:57]

Beirdo:

yay

[04:30:59]

Beirdo:

first time

[04:31:08]

[R]:

atlanta800: well goto silicon dust's website, type in your zipcode, figure out what the phsyical channel is for the ones you are missing... and rescan that channel

[04:31:09]

Beirdo:

sphery: ps.Savce

[04:31:16]

Beirdo:

and os.Sace

[04:31:18]

Beirdo:

Save

[04:31:59]

atlanta800:

[R] Yeah, I have my info from silicon dust... not quite sure how to use it though

[04:32:11]

[R]:

atlanta800: whe you go to scan... you can select whicih channels you want to scaxn

[04:32:14]

** sphery is lost **

[04:32:30]

Beirdo:

sphery: that's where the slowness is in WriteDefaults

[04:32:35]

atlanta800:

[R] let me see if it comes up with anything new

[04:32:36]

sphery:

ohhh

[04:32:43]

sphery:

os = which settings?

[04:33:09]

atlanta800:

[R]: if the channel is 98–2, I'd just want to scan 98, correct?

[04:33:18]

Beirdo:

OSD Settins

[04:33:23]

sphery:

ohhhh....

[04:33:28]

sphery:

OSD Menu...

[04:33:33]

Beirdo:

that's the slow one

[04:33:41]

sphery:

Did danielk cut that out? If not, likely culprit.

[04:34:04]

sphery:

(that meaning OSD Menu Editor settings)

[04:36:53]

atlanta800:

[R]: It says that WSLS (NBC) is on Channel 97–4 (Virtual 10.1) I scan from 97–97 and it fails to lock...

[04:37:05]

Beirdo:

I dunno. I'll have to dive further in and see :)

[04:37:27]

Beirdo:

I'm currently doing two recordings too, BTW

[04:38:30]

sphery:

I think either danielk or markk or both were talking about removing the OSD Menu Editor. It's a very resource-intensive design--and is recreated every playback.

[04:38:51]

sphery:

So if it's still in there, you'd have support for pulling it out (from them and me :)

[04:39:15]

[R]:

atlanta800: weird

[04:39:31]

[R]:

atlanta800: was that motorola box from the cable company?

[04:39:45]

atlanta800:

[R] nope, just one my buddy had lying around

[04:39:56]

[R]:

well if silicon dust says you get it, you get it

[04:39:56]

Beirdo:

so I'll start another playback while I tinker :)

[04:40:06]

[R]:

maybe your card is broken?

[04:40:14]

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[04:40:46]

Beirdo:

Red Green. there we go

[04:41:00]

atlanta800:

Hope not, brand new, got it from NewEgg a few days ago

[04:41:06]

bribroder:

i'm off for the night, thanks for the help sphery [R] wagnerrp

[04:41:20]

atlanta800:

Maybe too weak a signal?

[04:41:30]

[R]:

thats possible

[04:41:38]

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[04:41:50]

wagnerrp:

over cable? not likely

[04:41:56]

wagnerrp:

how many splits do you have?

[04:42:07]

atlanta800:

2, let me remove 'em and try again

[04:42:14]

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[04:44:58]

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[04:45:02]

atlanta800:

HAH! that was it

[04:45:14]

atlanta800:

odd, the motorola tuner was behind the same amount of splits

[04:45:22]

[R]:

its tuner might be more sensitive

[04:45:30]

iamlindoro:

Set top boxes are much less noisy internally than your computer

[04:45:36]

iamlindoro:

and yeah, tuner quality varies wildly

[04:46:12]

atlanta800:

ah, I guess that would make more sense

[04:46:23]

atlanta800:

alright, thanks a lot

[04:46:35]

sphery:

knightr: Once you've been doing this as long as iamlindoro, you won't even worry about insulting people. I think you stop worrying sometime shortly after everyone thinks you're a jerk, no matter what you say.

[04:46:39]

sphery:

:)

[04:46:46]

iamlindoro:

hah

[04:47:07]

sphery:

who asked you, jerk?

[04:47:12]

sphery:

please don't kick me

[04:47:17]

** iamlindoro reloads **

[04:47:19]

sphery:

^^^ joke

[04:47:28]

sphery:

not the don't kick me part...

[04:47:30]

** sphery shuts up **

[04:47:57]

atlanta800:

So here's another, hopefully simpler, question

[04:48:14]

atlanta800:

I have an HD tuner, and an SD tuner (well multiple SD tuners now)

[04:48:15]

iamlindoro:

sphery, I feel only amusement at those who think I'm the big jerk, given how hard I work behind the scenes on user's behalf :)

[04:48:19]

knightr:

sphery: (-; Good night sphery!

[04:48:22]

Beirdo:

heheh

[04:48:36]

iamlindoro:

atlanta800, Presuambly you mean you have a digital tuner, and several analog tuners

[04:48:37]

sphery:

g'night knightr (er, good knightr ?)

[04:48:38]

atlanta800:

how do I set it up so that MythTV prefers my HD tuner and uses it whenever possible, but will fallback to the SD tuner(s)

[04:48:53]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: we've all had jerky days, of course :)

[04:48:54]

atlanta800:

iamlindora: yes, sorry, digital/analog*

[04:48:56]

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[04:49:03]

iamlindoro:

atlanta800, define the digital tuner first, then the analog tuners

[04:49:04]

** Beirdo wields a trout to prove his point... **

[04:49:44]

atlanta800:

ok, good, I was doing that anyway

[04:49:49]

sphery:

atlanta800: yes, connect your inputs in the order of preference, and use "Any channel" rules

[04:50:15]

Beirdo:

sphery: OK, these saving settings things are... fun to follow codewise

[04:50:18]

sphery:

"this channel" rules limit the rules to working based on callsign--which may differ between the digital and analog video sources (depending on your configuration)

[04:50:27]

sphery:

Beirdo: is it consistently in the same one?

[04:50:40]

Beirdo:

haven't restarted it again yet

[04:50:55]

Beirdo:

just code reading to see if there's a good place for more logging

[04:51:15]

sphery:

in theory, we could make the whole "rinse and repeat a SQL statement 426 times" process a lot more efficient--just probably not a feature freeze kind of thing

[04:51:31]

Beirdo:

I really need to run doxygen and get a class inheritance diagram

[04:52:00]

atlanta800:

Also, should I change my digital channel numbers so they are the same as my analog channels? For example, FOX is 27_1 on the digital, but 8 on analog.

[04:52:11]

sphery:

atlanta800: that's your call

[04:52:24]

sphery:

atlanta800: channel callsign and channel number are user editable data

[04:52:49]

sphery:

atlanta800: if 2 channels have identical content, you can give them the same callsign to make MythTV use either of them for "this channel" recording rules

[04:53:22]

atlanta800:

sphery: ahh, that's exactly what I was trying to figure out

[04:53:32]

sphery:

atlanta800: and if 2 channels have the same callsign (because you want MythTV to use either of htem for "this channel" recording rules), you can give them the same channel number to tell MythTV to show the channel only one time in the EPG

[04:54:17]

sphery:

atlanta800: on the other hand, if you give 2 channels (with the same callsign) the same channel number, you're saying the channels /are/ completely identical--you no longer have a way of specifying which channel to tune in Live TV

[04:54:40]

sphery:

basically channel numbers are the user's "identifier" for which channel to tune during Live TV (and, really, nothing more)

[04:54:56]

atlanta800:

hmm, ok, I'll play around with it then, and see how I like it best

[04:55:05]

atlanta800:

that helps explain a lot of what I wondering though, thanks

[04:55:07]

sphery:

probably a lot more detail than you wanted, but you should find what you wanted in that novel :)

[04:55:18]

atlanta800:

nah, that's exactly what I wanted to know

[04:56:15]

atlanta800:

ok, time to play around!

[04:56:21]

atlanta800:

Thanks again all.

[04:56:27]

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[04:56:29]

sphery:

enjoy

[05:01:48]

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[05:03:51]

Beirdo:

sphery: I think this might be an issue of database locking somehow

[05:04:08]

Beirdo:

anything likely to be table locking settings table?

[05:04:32]

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[05:06:28]

sphery:

Beirdo: with MyISAM, all writes are done with table-level locking, TTBOMK

[05:06:49]

sphery:

but I can't see why anything would be writing to mythconverg.settings for 15s

[05:06:56]

Beirdo:

yeah, but is something else likely to be writing as well

[05:07:35]

Beirdo:

kormoc: you think that making settings InnoDB might be beneficial in this?

[05:08:06]

sphery:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/table-locking.html

[05:08:22]

Beirdo:

I guess I could try with a -v all

[05:08:26]

Beirdo:

but yech

[05:08:53]

sphery:

yeah, though that's likely to change the speed enough you may miss any other users

[05:09:05]

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[05:09:10]

sphery:

maybe just -v important,general,database (though that's still a lot)

[05:09:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[05:09:13]

Beirdo:

true

[05:09:38]

sphery:

seems even the selects are locking tables

[05:09:59]

Beirdo:

yeah.

[05:10:00]

sphery:

update has higher priority than select, though

[05:10:32]

sphery:

so in theory, with a select (lock), select, update, the update would bo before the 2nd select

[05:11:12]

iamlindoro:

So many spy shows on TV this season

[05:11:27]

Beirdo:

that's kinda what I'm wondering... if for some reason we have two things racing

[05:11:45]

iamlindoro:

Nikita, Covert Affairs, Rubicon, Undercovers... when will it end?

[05:11:48]

Beirdo:

both messing with settings table

[05:11:55]

sphery:

your mysqld isn't started with --low-priority-updates (or the equivalent my.cnf variable), is it?

[05:12:22]

Beirdo:

not that I know of. one sec

[05:13:23]

Beirdo:

doesn't look like

[05:13:30]

sphery:

Beirdo: what's: show variables like 'max_write_lock_count';

[05:13:58]

Beirdo:

one sec

[05:14:11]

sphery:

and show variables like '%low_priority_updates';

[05:14:29]

Beirdo:

| low_priority_updates | OFF |

[05:14:29]

Beirdo:

| sql_low_priority_updates | OFF |

[05:14:42]

sphery:

MyISAM tables, which support concurrent SELECT and INSERT statements

[05:14:46]

Beirdo:

max_write_lock_count | 18446744073709551615

[05:14:47]

sphery:

interesting

[05:14:52]

sphery:

OK, it's not those...

[05:15:47]

sphery:

wonder if it's doing a delete/insert pair for each setting

[05:15:56]

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[05:16:06]

Beirdo:

oh that would suck

[05:16:15]

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[05:16:15]

sphery:

or if we don't re-write the ones that are already there

[05:16:23]

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[05:16:50]

Beirdo:

don't think so

[05:17:02]

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[05:17:08]

sphery:

wonder if it could be something to do with the way kernel scheduler or kernel i/o scheduler is configured...

[05:17:18]

Beirdo:

?!

[05:17:30]

Beirdo:

like Linux kernel?

[05:18:17]

sphery:

yeah

[05:18:46]

Beirdo:

not sure how that would affect this significantly

[05:19:07]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/349300#349300 was my experience with it

[05:19:24]

sphery:

Completely Fair Scheduler was exactly that--to the point it killed my MythTV performance

[05:21:11]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[05:21:37]

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[05:21:41]

Beirdo:

CONFIG_DEFAULT_IOSCHED="deadline"

[05:21:49]

sphery:

I don't think *buntu is using USER_SCHED

[05:21:50]

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[05:22:00]

Beirdo:

I'm not using their kernel

[05:22:12]

Beirdo:

the config is based off theirs though

[05:22:21]

kormoc:

Beirdo, it's best if during the lock if you can run SHOW FULL PROCESSLIST; and see what's actually in the queue

[05:22:28]

Beirdo:

# CONFIG_CFQ_GROUP_IOSCHED is not set

[05:22:38]

Beirdo:

kormoc: oooh, good plan

[05:22:43]

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[05:22:47]

kormoc:

and yes, likely innodb would fix it, but... :)

[05:22:51]

Beirdo:

heh

[05:23:11]

Beirdo:

might fix the symptom, but maybe not the cause?

[05:23:27]

kormoc:

it'd be nice to fix it for everyone

[05:23:43]

Beirdo:

agreed

[05:24:17]

Beirdo:

an awful lot of sleeping mythtv connections :)

[05:24:36]

Beirdo:

3 of em at around 730s

[05:25:03]

Beirdo:

anyways, I'll restart the frontend in a few and see if I can't catch it mid-fubar

[05:26:20]

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[05:26:37]

sphery:

Beirdo: for the issue I was having, it would be CONFIG.*SCHED

[05:27:19]

Beirdo:

yeah, my system has CFQ enabled, but not default

[05:27:40]

sphery:

mine has CFQ enabled

[05:27:52]

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[05:28:05]

Beirdo:

deadline's my default

[05:28:10]

Beirdo:

group is disabled

[05:28:16]

sphery:

ok

[05:28:44]

sphery:

the CONFIG_GROUP_SCHED + CONFIG_USER_SCHED = bad, but CONFIG_GROUP_SCHED + CONFIG_CGROUP_SCHED works

[05:29:00]

Beirdo:

cool

[05:29:21]

Beirdo:

well, I hope to not have to require kernel tweaking for users :)

[05:30:26]

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[05:33:40]

Beirdo:

ok, here goes

[05:34:22]

Beirdo:

kormoc: a whole pile of nulls

[05:34:27]

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[05:34:45]

Beirdo:

the only info that had anything was the show full processlist

[05:35:50]

Beirdo:

but... only one had a time of over 15s

[05:36:18]

Beirdo:

6 connections with <= 2s timeout each

[05:37:08]

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[05:54:59]

Beirdo:

what the...

[05:55:06]

Beirdo:

I restarted the mysql server

[05:55:14]

Beirdo:

and mythcommflag is bitching

[05:55:20]

Beirdo:

MySQL server has gone away

[05:55:33]

Beirdo:

reconnect, you stupid program

[05:57:43]

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[06:03:28]

Beirdo:

kormoc: OK this is interesting (to me)

[06:03:40]

Beirdo:

2010-09–09 22:54:04.030 ps.Save

[06:03:40]

Beirdo:

2010-09–09 22:54:40.430 os.Load

[06:03:55]

Beirdo:

OK, there's my long save...

[06:04:08]

Beirdo:

I restarted mysql to turn on binary logging

[06:04:16]

Beirdo:

dump the binary log...

[06:04:29]

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[06:04:34]

Beirdo:

the first touch to the settings table in that time...

[06:04:42]

Beirdo:

#100909 22:54:31

[06:04:59]

Beirdo:

how's THAT for odd?

[06:05:08]

Beirdo:

sphery: you too :)

[06:05:41]

Beirdo:

and THAT was a filldb hit

[06:05:58]

kormoc:

ps.save? os.Load?

[06:06:14]

Beirdo:

yeah, the OSDSettings

[06:06:27]

Beirdo:

and forget what ps is :)

[06:06:32]

sphery:

Beirdo: I haven't looked at the code to see if it's just querying the settings and only writing them if the value doesn't already exist or what

[06:06:38]

sphery:

playback settings

[06:06:38]

Beirdo:

it does

[06:06:49]

sphery:

it does check to see if they exist?

[06:06:50]

Beirdo:

it does select then either update or insert

[06:07:02]

sphery:

so it always updates?

[06:07:17]

sphery:

and is it a SQL update or a MythTV save setting

[06:07:28]

sphery:

because save setting deletes then inserts

[06:08:12]

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[06:08:26]

Beirdo:

I'm looking at SimpleDBStorage::Save

[06:08:32]

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[06:08:41]

Beirdo:

which seems to be where it eventually does the DB stuff

[06:10:11]

Beirdo:

hmm

[06:10:20]

Beirdo:

I don't see any frontend stuff in that log

[06:10:22]

Beirdo:

nvm

[06:10:31]

Beirdo:

what the heck

[06:10:49]

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[06:11:56]

Beirdo:

screw it. normal log time

[06:12:03]

Beirdo:

got lots of disk space

[06:13:35]

Beirdo:

this is ridiculous

[06:16:02]

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[06:20:19]

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[06:21:42]

[R]:

Beirdo: you shodun't be restaring sql when the backend is running!

[06:21:50]

Beirdo:

whatever

[06:21:53]

[R]:

lol

[06:22:02]

Beirdo:

the backend should be able to deal with it

[06:22:13]

** Beirdo pats MythLogBot **

[06:22:16]

Beirdo:

it does

[06:22:19]

[R]:

i could totally fix it!

[06:22:23]

[R]:

were you gonna write a patch?

[06:22:28]

Beirdo:

I can restart mysql and it even queues it

[06:22:50]

Beirdo:

nope. I'll let the others have dibs at it.

[06:23:29]

Beirdo:

I put in a ticket though

[06:23:48]

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[06:24:57]

sphery:

Beirdo: my understanding: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/188508#188508

[06:25:15]

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[06:25:22]

sphery:

basically, without auto-reconnect support, we have to detect the failure of the connection, then discard it and get a new one

[06:25:45]

Beirdo:

yes

[06:25:49]

sphery:

unforatunately, I think the QSqlDatabase also becomes broken/corrupt, so we have to redo that

[06:25:51]

Beirdo:

it's not hard

[06:25:59]

sphery:

but our code to do that doesn't seem to work

[06:26:13]

Beirdo:

well... then QSqlDatabase is crap :)

[06:26:25]

Beirdo:

but fair enough

[06:26:28]

sphery:

are you using Qt for MythLogBot?

[06:26:31]

Beirdo:

it needs to be fixed

[06:26:34]

Beirdo:

heck no

[06:26:38]

Beirdo:

C API directly

[06:26:42]

sphery:

agreed that there are issues with Qt

[06:26:58]

** sphery looks to see if they've added support for auto-reconnect **

[06:27:13]

Beirdo:

and yes, you basically need to tear it down and reconnect

[06:27:31]

Beirdo:

any time you get that particular error

[06:27:39]

sphery:

not as of 4.5: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qsqldatabase.html#setConnectOptions

[06:27:42]

Beirdo:

depending on auto-reconnect is nasty

[06:27:46]

sphery:

yeah

[06:28:03]

Beirdo:

we found that with beirdobot

[06:28:10]

sphery:

but we don't have good code to handle this because auto-reconnect used to be always enabled with MySQL early

[06:28:17]

Beirdo:

it would work for me, but not for kormoc and xris

[06:28:24]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:29:05]

sphery:

wouldn't take much to add the ability to specify auto-reconnect to QSqlDatabase::setConnectOptions(), but it would take forever to get out to users and for us to upgrade to the point of requiring that Qt version

[06:29:16]

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[06:29:17]

sphery:

so, basically, we need to do it right if we want to support it

[06:29:28]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:29:35]

sphery:

and we have had a lot of problems from DB's dropping out on us (including many tickets)

[06:29:58]

Beirdo:

if we detect that error, try to reconnect... if you can't connect, THEN dump the query, I guess

[06:30:02]

Beirdo:

as we don't queue

[06:30:09]

sphery:

likely much easier to handle with an embedded db :)

[06:30:17]

Beirdo:

if you can reconnect, then retry the query

[06:30:47]

Beirdo:

and that should make it work a lot better

[06:32:01]

Beirdo:

anyways, at least we have a bug to track for it

[06:32:03]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:32:54]

Beirdo:

if mysql gets looked at wrong, then the backend goes into a nasty state... that's sucky to me

[06:36:23]

[R]:

sphery: you know... i keep hearing about this mythical (pun intended) embedded db... is it still vaporware?

[06:36:33]

** [R] whips up a patch **

[06:36:34]

[R]:

lol

[06:36:49]

Beirdo:

what the!!!

[06:36:52]

sphery:

heh, cool

[06:37:00]

sphery:

saves us a lot of work

[06:37:01]

[R]:

it should only be a few lines of code

[06:37:04]

[R]:

(famous last words)

[06:37:07]

Beirdo:

sphery: when it does the ps.Load...

[06:37:07]

sphery:

yeah

[06:37:11]

[R]:

i swear! this one guy at my work ALWAYS says that

[06:37:21]

Beirdo:

I get a whole raft of:

[06:37:24]

[R]:

telling it to me... and hes not a sfotware person nor does he know the codebase

[06:37:29]

Beirdo:

320 Prepare SELECT data FROM settings WHERE value = ? AND ho

[06:37:29]

Beirdo:

stname = ?

[06:37:40]

Beirdo:

but never get executed

[06:37:44]

Beirdo:

in mysql.log

[06:37:45]

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[06:37:57]

[R]:

Beirdo: maybes its cached?

[06:37:57]

sphery:

failed prepare?

[06:38:07]

Beirdo:

prepares, resets, closes

[06:38:24]

sphery:

if we get an error on prepare, we would stop there

[06:38:49]

Beirdo:

but why whould that give an error

[06:39:10]

Beirdo:

looks legit to me

[06:39:15]

sphery:

yeah, it shouldn't fail

[06:39:23]

Beirdo:

unless somehow mysql isn't logging everything

[06:39:24]

sphery:

and if it does, normally we output error messages

[06:40:12]

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[06:40:14]

[R]:

sphery: they licesnse the embedded mysql as non-gpl don't they? evil bastards

[06:40:31]

sphery:

you can choose gpl if your project is gpl

[06:40:42]

[R]:

but you can choose non-gpl... thats my point

[06:40:43]

sphery:

unless oracle changed that

[06:41:03]

sphery:

yeah, this "Open Core Software" kind of sucks

[06:41:19]

[R]:

aparently embedded mysql has a minimum system requirement of 1mb of ram

[06:41:42]

Beirdo:

oooh...

[06:41:43]

sphery:

oh, we'll likely have users complain over that one

[06:41:45]

Beirdo:

hehh

[06:42:04]

sphery:

# Zero-administration, eliminating the need for customers to hire a dedicated DBA or spend any cycles on database administration, and reducing or eliminating costly database-related support calls.

[06:42:05]

Beirdo:

I do NOT get this

[06:42:28]

sphery:

so, think of all the money we'll save our users when they can let their dedicated DBA's go

[06:43:46]

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[06:44:06]

[R]:

so i can find the developemtn headers for embedded mysql... but i can't figure out what the actual library is... is it supposed to be this confusing?

[06:45:02]

[R]:

oh... its a .a file

[06:45:12]

[R]:

even more evil

[06:47:25]

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[06:48:04]

[R]:

sphery: i'm serious about trying to do it though

[06:48:35]

sphery:

[R]: so am I

[06:48:54]

[R]:

you are what?

[06:49:03]

sphery:

serious about having an embedded mysql

[06:49:21]

[R]:

looks like it should only be a few lines of code

[06:49:22]

[R]:

:)

[06:49:32]

Beirdo:

not even close

[06:49:37]

Beirdo:

:)

[06:49:44]

[R]:

i'm looking at the docs now

[06:49:51]

sphery:

[R]: it will be a big project, but if you'd like to start playing around, http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/sql-driver.html is a good start

[06:50:23]

Beirdo:

there's also the need for network support for the now embedded db...

[06:50:27]

Beirdo:

and logging

[06:50:33]

Beirdo:

etc.

[06:50:37]

sphery:

yeah, that's the big one

[06:50:39]

[R]:

Beirdo: ok... so 10 lines

[06:50:40]

[R]:

:)

[06:50:57]

sphery:

basically implement a protocol for client/server communications

[06:51:07]

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[06:51:21]

sphery:

we're leaning toward using protobuf

[06:51:24]

[R]:

why not just make the backend act like a regular mysql server?

[06:51:46]

Beirdo:

gah

[06:51:56]

Beirdo:

then jsut what is the point of embedding?

[06:51:59]

[R]:

haha

[06:52:03]

[R]:

baby steps

[06:52:20]

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[06:52:27]

[R]:

take the incremental approach

[06:52:35]

Beirdo:

don't think so

[06:52:38]

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[06:53:38]

[R]:

it looks like the mysql plugin for qt needs to be compioled for embedded mysql

[06:53:48]

sphery:

[R]: besides, embedded mysql isn't client/server--it can only be accessed by a single process

[06:53:49]

[R]:

that might be a probelm?

[06:54:02]

sphery:

that's what distros are for

[06:54:26]

sphery:

though we may have other options, too...

[06:54:33]

sphery:

more investigation still needed

[06:54:45]

[R]:

well i'm not seeing 2 seperate mysql plugins for qt

[06:55:01]

sphery:

If you use it, they will build it.

[06:56:00]

[R]:

i dont see how both could coexist in a system though

[06:56:03]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[06:56:06]

Beirdo:

mysqlslap

[06:56:16]

sphery:

heh

[06:57:54]

[R]:

gotta love ubuntu forums

[06:57:58]

[R]:

"nice thread. however sqlite is better than mysql almost in every aspect when it comes to the embedded database solutions"

[06:58:10]

Beirdo:

ummm, no it ain't

[06:58:17]

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[06:58:26]

sphery:

especially with a BUSQ

[06:58:32]

Beirdo:

yeah

[06:59:27]

[R]:

well this thread is useless

[06:59:40]

Beirdo:

a) it's a forum

[06:59:46]

Beirdo:

b) it's an ubuntu forum

[07:00:20]

Beirdo:

that's almost as bad as using ./ as a NEWS source

[07:00:23]

[R]:

haha

[07:02:21]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, and how about Qt, embedded MySQL, and mingw :)

[07:02:34]

sphery:

that will be fun

[07:02:57]

sphery:

I have a feeling the windows backend won't be doing mysql at least initially

[07:02:57]

Beirdo:

oh, that will be SOOO fun

[07:07:18]

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[07:11:43]

[R]:

well aparently amarok does it

[07:11:46]

[R]:

so its possible i guess

[07:12:03]

[R]:

but the qt docs say the qt driver needs to be linked with mysqld

[07:12:06]

[R]:

(which its not)

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[08:08:31]

justinh:

wth is up with radiotimes lately? I've had a look on the xmltv mailing lists & can't find any reference to whatever is going on

[08:16:31]

justinh:

heh.. looks like data is back today

[08:19:59]

justinh:

"Just brought up a new MythTV server. Five more rooms with video cameras!". More #MythTV wrongness :-)

[08:21:31]

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[08:22:38]

sid3windr:

heh

[08:24:33]

Beirdo:

what's wrong about that?

[08:24:41]

Beirdo:

we have the zoneminder plugin

[08:25:22]

Beirdo:

be a waste of a PVR, but meh :)

[08:27:23]

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[08:31:08]

justinh:

hmm gonna have to change the time of day I run uk_rt I think

[08:31:38]

bjd_:

is the rt a bit more stable now?

[08:31:43]

bjd_:

might do the switch this evening

[08:31:58]

justinh:

bit more stable? I'd never have called it unstable

[08:32:05]

justinh:

it's just been a bit flaky recently

[08:32:24]

justinh:

been getting what we pay for :D

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[08:43:07]

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[08:43:13]

sidh:

Greetings

[08:44:52]

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[08:45:18]

Beirdo:

good night all

[08:46:43]

justinh:

I don't like it when people say hello in here. they always come here with problems

[08:46:52]

justinh:

night Beirdo

[08:47:41]

sidh:

I would need your advice, I have a brand new "old generation" motherboard with an AGP (AGI ?) slot for GPU, that could replace the mythtv station that fits on a d945gclf2 intel mobo for the moment (can't see HD movies on it), so my question is : Is there affordable HD (1080p) GPU that have AGP (AGI?) interface ?

[08:49:01]

sidh:

i saw many ATI Radeon HD with this interface, but it seems ATI can make good hardware but very bad drivers... so I prefer to ask

[08:49:48]

bjd_:

stick with nvidia for sure

[08:50:27]

bjd_:

mm, hang on

[08:50:28]

sidh:

bjd_: is there some vdpau GPU with AGP interface ?

[08:50:54]

justinh:

wouldn't count in it

[08:51:36]

bjd_:

yeah, PCI-E is where its at

[08:51:43]

justinh:

the main issue with ATI is that when they have support in their driver for something it's apparently really good, but it might not remain supported for very long.. and they have a habit of discontinuing support quite quickly

[08:52:12]

justinh:

means you have to a) get lucky and b) try to remain on the driver revision which works for you for as long as you can

[08:53:43]

sidh:

justinh: configuring my mythtv center has been a really big battle for me (yes there are n00b everywhere ;) ), and once everything is installed, I don't upgrade the system

[08:53:49]

justinh:

as far as AGP is concerned.. it's probably better to consider that a non-starter for any use with VDPAU

[08:54:34]

justinh:

my old backend had AGP & the cheapest pci-e graphics card I could get just happened to be an 8400GS :)

[08:55:33]

justinh:

cost me about £200 to replace my old athlon 2000XP backend with something that totally whoops its ass :D

[08:55:33]

sidh:

I have 4 8400 GS in pci-express interface

[08:56:13]

justinh:

end result is that the box is more reliable since it's no longer running on 10+ years old hardware – and the frontend is faster now as a result too

[08:56:42]

sidh:

justinh: as I said , this is a brand new 'old mobo"

[08:56:47]

justinh:

just used the cheapest CPU I could find too :)

[08:56:48]

sidh:

with 2 GB RAM

[08:56:57]

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[08:57:03]

sidh:

and a pentium 4 CPU

[08:57:37]

sidh:

with sata I, and IDE (the OS will be installed on CF card)

[08:57:45]

justinh:

if you really want VDPAU you'd really be better going with PCI-E

[08:58:04]

justinh:

CF card installs won't necessarily be faster than a HDD

[08:58:25]

justinh:

somebody came here bragging about his 'quick' start time the other week & my disk based frontend beat it

[08:58:34]

sidh:

justinh: no but it would better support power on/power off

[08:58:41]

justinh:

huh?

[08:58:50]

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[08:59:00]

sidh:

justinh: yes no mechanics in cf card

[08:59:11]

justinh:

the only advantages of CF are that it takes less power (making less heat) and less space

[08:59:24]

justinh:

your filesystem could still get trashed by not shutting down properly

[08:59:25]

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[08:59:36]

sidh:

no noise too

[08:59:52]

sidh:

justinh: yes for sure

[09:00:00]

justinh:

so choosing CF as something you can just randomly powering off.. is wrong

[09:00:11]

justinh:

s/powering/power/

[09:00:46]

justinh:

fwiw the 2.5" sata disk in my frontend is silent as far as I can tell

[09:01:29]

sidh:

justinh: i do believe that you can safely shutdown/boot your system more often on a CF thatn on a hdd

[09:02:01]

sidh:

power on/off hdd (even properly with shutdown/boot) damage the disks

[09:02:06]

justinh:

I've no idea where you get that idea from. there's no basis for it in reality

[09:02:07]

sidh:

maybe i'm wrong

[09:02:24]

sidh:

but I've several times been told that

[09:02:46]

justinh:

yeah in theory HDDs have a limited spinup cycle life but in practise....

[09:03:17]

sidh:

that is based on "shock" against hdd arms during power on/off them iirc

[09:03:42]

justinh:

they have spinup cycle lives of something like 100,000 cycles these days

[09:04:25]

sidh:

but whatever, i won't go further in this , you shoud be right about hdd Vs CF

[09:04:34]

justinh:

it's not something I'm particularly concerned about

[09:06:38]

sidh:

maybe i should consider my real need of VDPAU, because on my d945gclf2 intel mobo i don't have it too, and my main problem is 1080p movie, not encodings performance problem

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[09:18:32]

sidh:

is there some affordable ATI GPU that can do 1080p ?

[09:25:36]

sidh:

(i mean in AGP interface; like HD 3650 e.g.)

[09:26:42]

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[09:27:50]

justinh:

huh?

[09:28:31]

sidh:

justinh: please don't be upset by my question , i 'm not a hardware specialist

[09:28:50]

justinh:

what do you mean 'do' 1080p ? *output* 1080p? I think any card from the last few years should be able to *output* 1920x1080

[09:29:17]

sidh:

justinh: no i mean watching high definition movies

[09:29:23]

sidh:

720p and 1080p

[09:29:37]

justinh:

no ATI hardware will give you decoding in mythtv right now, no

[09:29:43]

sidh:

for example on the

[09:30:25]

sidh:

d945gclf2 integrated GPU, i can do 1280x1024 but i can't watch 1080p movies , and 720p too

[09:30:33]

justinh:

all an ATI card has to do is let you run X at 1920x1080

[09:32:11]

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[09:33:43]

sidh:

ok so i must go for another platform with pci express and NVIDIA VDPAU then... (snif), btw justinh which GPU VDPAU do you use with your new system ?

[09:33:50]

justinh:

WHAT?!

[09:34:18]

sidh:

you said your old platform used a 8400 GS

[09:34:19]

justinh:

no, if you just want to DISPLAY 1920x1080 you just need a graphics card which will allow you to run X at 1920x1080

[09:34:38]

justinh:

and a display capable of running at 1920x1080 of course

[09:34:54]

justinh:

but if you want mythtv to *decode* the video on the GPU then you want VDPAU

[09:36:59]

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[09:37:51]

justinh:

note – if your video card is only doing the *display* your CPU will be doing all the video decoding.. and for 1080P HD you're gonna need a beast to guarantee it'll cope with anything you can throw at it

[09:37:54]

sidh:

justinh: there is something i didn't understand, when i see that problem with 720p and 1080p movies with d945gclf2 , i tried with my new laptop (cuda nvidia GPU) and twinview on my old TV (classic), i 've been able to watch the movies on the old tv

[09:38:24]

justinh:

you say 'problem' but don't say what the 'problem' is

[09:38:49]

sidh:

the problem was too much frame dropping

[09:39:24]

sidh:

even vlc or mplayer soft compensation was not enough

[09:39:37]

justinh:

then your CPU is too lame

[09:39:47]

sidh:

ok

[09:40:30]

justinh:

if you're not using VDPAU in mythtv 0.23 you need a fast CPU to keep up

[09:41:00]

sidh:

i see, fast like > 3 Ghz

[09:41:08]

sidh:

?

[09:41:17]

sidh:

multi core ?

[09:41:29]

justinh:

multi core won't help

[09:41:44]

sidh:

ok video apps are not multi threaded

[09:41:46]

justinh:

er multi-core won't help unless the content you're trying to play is sliced

[09:42:38]

justinh:

until we've got ffmpeg-mt synced into mythtv anyway

[09:42:45]

sidh:

the only mono core CPU i have in spare is a athlon XP 3200+, i don't think it will be enough

[09:43:18]

justinh:

with '1080 pee'

[09:43:31]

sidh:

does ffmpeg-mt the Internal video player called by mythtv ?

[09:43:52]

justinh:

no, the internal player is based on ffmpeg

[09:44:31]

justinh:

when ffmpeg-mt makes it into ffmpeg, and mythtv syncs to that, then mythtv will get multithreaded decoding for everything

[09:48:08]

sidh:

great improvement then

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[11:17:13]

justinh:

weird. a show I scheduled to record manually in 8 days time appeared in the EPG

[11:17:42]

justinh:

do manual recording schedules work by having an entry made for them in the program table?

[11:25:31]

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[11:32:59]

stuartm:

not that I'm aware of

[11:33:36]

stuartm:

in fact I'm pretty certain that they don't

[11:34:16]

stuartm:

but the guide could be loading and displaying that info from the scheduler

[11:43:36]

sidh:

btw you talk about recordings, i 'm not able to see full menu on my tv (old classic), i chose the only 4:3 theme available, but menus are still truncated, so last time i scheduled a recording for every week, and it seems i fail ;)

[11:49:31]

sidh:

but because of truncation I can not see any difference between options inside a same menu

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[11:59:17]

justinh:

viva 4:3 themery. heh

[12:00:05]

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[12:02:57]

justinh:

stuartm: strange, I wouldn't expect the guide to get that from the scheduler.. hey ho

[12:03:58]

justinh:

I gave the manual schedule a title & in that channel's guide listing it appeared twice effectively – one was the manual schedule set just by the time & manually titled – the other was the actual listing

[12:04:05]

stuartm:

justinh: well it fetches the list of upcoming recordings so it can mark them as recording in the guide, so why not insert manual schedules on channels which have no guide data to match up against?

[12:04:19]

stuartm:

justinh: ahh, that sounds more like a bug

[12:04:39]

justinh:

I

[12:04:42]

justinh:

duh

[12:04:47]

justinh:

I'll see if I can reproduce it

[12:05:52]

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[12:07:09]

justinh:

yup. I'll take a screenshot

[12:07:24]

justinh:

btw this is mythweb, not mythfrontend. haven't looked there yet

[12:11:04]

justinh:

oh yeah.. in mythfrontend too

[12:11:45]

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[12:12:07]

justinh:

http://imagebin.org/113500

[12:12:08]

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[12:14:02]

justinh:

aha! it DOES create an entry in the program table

[12:14:47]

justinh:

http://pastebin.ca/1937211

[12:14:56]

justinh:

the 2nd entry is the manual schedule

[12:15:27]

justinh:

kinda logical I suppose

[12:16:33]

justinh:

deleted the manual schedule & now there's just the one entry in the program table for that title

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[12:17:23]

justinh:

there's probably a good reason for this – maybe to do with optimising stuff or something.. least I understand what's going on now

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[12:35:07]

justinh:

"Back to hating MythTV! The SD tuner isn't recording. When my daughter finds out MythTV didn't record Project Runway, I'm a dead man.". So tempting to send him a message asking why it's mythtv's fault his tuner failed

[12:37:05]

justinh:

could almost be forgiven for thinking mythtv really is developing good taste though ;-)

[12:37:53]

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[12:44:38]

Gibby_away is now known as Gibby

[12:44:47]

Gibby:

Anyone get affected by yesterdays worm?

[12:45:02]

justinh:

nope

[12:45:24]

justinh:

1. I don't blindly open email attachments

[12:45:28]

justinh:

2. I don't run Outlook at home

[12:45:38]

justinh:

3. I only ever use web-based email these days

[12:46:26]

justinh:

4. Even on my Windows systems I *always* show the extension of filenames

[12:49:32]

Gibby:

My work got hit, atleast a few thousand computers are affected

[12:50:34]

justinh:

oh well eh. Never mind

[12:51:22]

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[12:51:32]

Gibby:

Just our systems with exchange not lotus

[12:51:51]

Gibby:

glad i am not a wintel/messaging/security tech

[12:53:47]

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[13:04:12]

stuartm:

Beirdo: see http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8892 , related at least in part to your problem

[13:05:17]

justinh:

Gibby: we won't be affected by it here. We run only Thunderbird now

[13:05:59]

justinh:

not far away from moving to linux desktops wherever possible as well, I'm told

[13:07:40]

stuartm:

justinh: oh really? Wonder if that's a wider trend ...

[13:08:19]

justinh:

nah

[13:08:42]

Gibby:

justinh: How big is your company?

[13:08:47]

justinh:

tight-assed CEO unwilling to spend money re-doing windows licenses which were never properly recorded or audited

[13:09:07]

justinh:

about 500 people worldwide

[13:09:51]

Gibby:

yeah, that would be easy to migrate to linux...... we have about 100,0000 world wide and the client I support has about 30,000 mostly in the US, about 1,000 over seas

[13:10:26]

justinh:

won't be easy at all, since most of us rely on windows-based design tools

[13:10:37]

justinh:

proengineer, autocad, PCB Cad etc

[13:11:03]

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[13:12:35]

Gibby:

Codeweavers can fix that

[13:12:50]

justinh:

who?

[13:13:04]

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[13:14:11]

cynicismic:

Gibby: wine2.0 is great and all, but it's still not viable to run core business apps on

[13:15:16]

Gibby:

That I know, I went with Codeweavers and have found only 1 App that doesn't work

[13:15:33]

Gibby:

justinh: http://www.codeweavers.com/products/

[13:16:42]

cynicismic:

there's still a fair few apps that it doesn't run well enough

[13:16:56]

cynicismic:

vSphere infrastructure client being one of them

[13:17:37]

Gibby:

I know the older VIC works on it, don't know about the latest.... our wintel team actually supports VM

[13:19:00]

cynicismic:

and autocad as well – most apps will actually run, but you get random bugs or errors

[13:19:52]

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[13:20:07]

cynicismic:

imo, unless companies like autodesk/vmware actually produce a version of their app that runs natively on linux, at least as well as the windows version, people arn't going to migrate

[13:22:15]

stuartm:

and back-handers from microsoft will make that unlikely

[13:24:01]

justinh:

maybe 2011 will be the year of the linux Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[13:24:23]

justinh:

I know every year somebody claims "this is the year... "

[13:25:13]

bjd_:

i find it quite ironic really

[13:25:31]

bjd_:

vmware based their stuff on linux yet can't provide a linux client

[13:25:36]

justinh:

I don't really care really :)

[13:25:48]

bjd_:

i do

[13:25:53]

Gibby:

you could use the web interface

[13:25:59]

bjd_:

ew

[13:26:04]

justinh:

I only use linux because it lets me run mythtv – and I only use mythtv because no hardware box lets me do everything mythtv can do

[13:26:22]

stuartm:

justinh: I'm not sure why anyone thinks that the change will be sudden, that in one year everyone will make the switch, it's just not realistic

[13:26:41]

justinh:

makes for great headlines

[13:26:53]

justinh:

brings commentards out in full..

[13:26:58]

justinh:

traffic!

[13:28:18]

cynicismic:

yeah – linux on the desktop is making slow, steady progress, and microsoft is losing market share inch-by-inch – but there's a very long way to go yet

[13:28:19]

stuartm:

however linux is gaining ground every day and it's that gradual erosion of win/unix market share that will ultimately mean that one day linux will be as common place as windows, even if it never actually becomes dominant

[13:29:01]

justinh:

ubuntu isn't helping any either IMHO

[13:29:13]

justinh:

helping people discover linux maybe..

[13:29:45]

Gibby:

there is nothing wrong with ubuntu, we are actually looking at moving 250 Solaris Service into a private Ubuntu Cloud

[13:29:59]

Gibby:

250 solaris servers I meant

[13:30:15]

justinh:

ubuntu desktop, with its pulseaudio & silly crippled UI manager tools

[13:30:30]

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[13:30:34]

justinh:

what good is a user manager app that doesn't show UIDs below 1000?

[13:30:53]

cynicismic:

Gibby: That eucalyptus stuff looks quite interesting, havn't had a chance to look yet

[13:30:54]

Gibby:

nothing is crippled in Ubuntu, because it is designed not to show them under 1000

[13:31:21]

Gibby:

webmin fixes all of that

[13:31:24]

justinh:

it always used to

[13:31:27]

justinh:

pah, webmin

[13:31:29]

cynicismic:

as does net::ldap

[13:32:03]

Gibby:

yes used to, if i can covert both my grandparents to move to ubuntu and teach them in less than a day how to use it..... it is a very well rounded OS

[13:32:29]

justinh:

same with any computer though

[13:32:37]

justinh:

boot up, launch web browser. done

[13:32:50]

Gibby:

no, it took days for my grandparents to figure out outlook express

[13:33:14]

justinh:

yeh well, ISPs running their own mail servers are gonna be history soon enough

[13:34:32]

justinh:

I've managed to get myself locked out of my ISP's pop mail

[13:34:43]

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[13:35:08]

justinh:

changed the password, forgot the password – then the whole account password changed & I can't remember how to get into that – and to change it all I need to make a phonecall

[13:35:31]

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[13:40:51]

Gibby:

How many end users do we have? On meeting with Accuweather

[13:41:19]

justinh:

how long is a piece of string?

[13:41:30]

justinh:

safest to say *thousands*

[13:41:37]

justinh:

prolly tens of thousands

[13:41:55]

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[13:42:03]

justinh:

if not hundreds of thousands.. nobody has ever published numbers

[13:43:19]

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[13:54:28]

Gibby:

Ok, so yeah.... probably not going to get a TOA for Accuweather

[13:56:22]

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[13:57:00]

Gibby:

2 Things, we would need 6 Million end users so that they could generate about 15 million hits and a banner on any screen that grabs from Accuweather and Google TV has beat us to Accuweather....

[13:57:38]

justinh:

their loss then

[14:01:01]

skd5aner:

"beat us"?

[14:01:45]

skd5aner:

why would exclusivity matter... that said, I'm afraid they must not understand how mythtv operates – a "banner" wouldn't do them much good

[14:02:26]

skd5aner:

but, I'm not surprises, Accuweather has always been he most corporate weather provider there is...

[14:02:35]

skd5aner:

s/surprises/surprised

[14:02:39]

Gibby:

Yes Google TV will be launching soon and they will be getting there weather from Accuweather as basically a TV Widget he called it, well he was talking about advertising banners, not necessary banners that needs a web browser

[14:02:50]

justinh:

but hey, at least boxee didn't get a mention :)

[14:03:12]

justinh:

as for googletv.. the whole idea of that's more than just a little.. MEH

[14:04:04]

Gibby:

However, it was just a low sales person I had to talk with today.... I still have my ACE up my sleeve

[14:05:19]

skd5aner:

they're entire existance is to sell weather

[14:08:53]

justinh:

can they sell me some sunshine then?

[14:09:20]

justinh:

I'd like it to be sunny all day with a good stiff westerly breeze so I can dry all my washing

[14:11:20]

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[14:11:45]

Gibby:

I did not see any difference in the mythweather when i went to trunk tho, Beirdo, said he wanted them to see something with it

[14:12:26]

justinh:

all they'd get is a textual copyright message onscreen

[14:12:41]

justinh:

no banner.. and no easy way for a user to click on it even if there was a banner

[14:12:58]

justinh:

not that many people would

[14:13:04]

Gibby:

the banner wouldn't be a clickable banner, think of it more as a billboard, with a special deal or something on it

[14:13:21]

justinh:

*advertising* you mean

[14:13:30]

Gibby:

yes

[14:14:12]

Gibby:

he wants $$$$ from it, however that is because he is on the sales team and that is where someone wanted me to start

[14:14:29]

justinh:

then why such a silly high number? surely a bum on a seat seeing an advert is one more than you didn't have before

[14:14:42]

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[14:15:12]

Gibby:

yes i know, he called it premium content, however we are only looking for content you can get of the basic accuweather website

[14:16:12]

Gibby:

on to my next issue, should i stay with trunk and try to fix my issues or should i do a fresh os install and go back to 0.23.1?

[14:16:33]

justinh:

why would you need to do a fresh OS install ? :-O

[14:16:51]

Gibby:

having some wierd issues even with out myth on it

[14:17:07]

Gibby:

i need to get my NIC teaming working too

[14:17:07]

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[14:20:40]

Gibby:

should i stay with trunk or 0.23.1?

[14:21:45]

justinh:

the fix for the crash you were experiencing has been backported to 0.23.1 but it might not have made it into the repo you use yet

[14:24:53]

Gibby:

it did, i am just having a live playback issue with trunk, i am still in dev, so not using it through my house yet just my office till i get everything working, i just wonder how often trunk is broken....

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[14:26:59]

Gibby:

it takes alot longer to open too

[14:27:04]

justinh:

they try to break it as often as possible

[14:27:13]

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[14:27:14]

justinh:

you know, just to annoy everybody :)

[14:27:18]

Gibby:

ok, i think i might go back to 0.23.1 then

[14:29:03]

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[14:29:04]

stuartm:

please file bug reports otherwise those issues will persist into 0.24

[14:29:58]

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[14:30:24]

Gibby:

If I file a bug report, and then go back to 0.23.1 i can't test any fixes on trunk

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[14:36:05]

justinh:

yeah Gibby any unreported problem will make it into 0.24.. bad for everybody

[14:36:37]

justinh:

reporting the bug and being unable to test a fix yourself isn't as bad as not reporting the bug at all

[14:37:54]

Gibby:

hmm ok

[14:41:49]

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[15:09:03]

dewman:

I am still trying to figure out why one channel does not get picked during a scan with my hdhr when in myth, but when I am outside of myth the hdhr utility finds the channel. quite strange...

[15:11:38]

dewman:

there is two channels that share the same (mplexID?) (transport?) NatgeoHD and A&EHD natgeo comes in fine but its the A&EHD that is causing the issue.... I was wondering if I should give scte65scan a whirl...

[15:13:11]

iamlindoro:

since scte 65 tables are used for DTAs, which will only tune SD channels, it's likely no HD channels whatsoever will be in the SCTE 65 tables

[15:13:40]

dewman:

hmmm...

[15:13:56]

dewman:

iamlindoro, btw your scan fix works great! =)

[15:14:13]

iamlindoro:

dewman: Glad to hear it, thanks for the confirmation :)

[15:14:15]

dewman:

I love the fact that it finds the correct channel number.

[15:14:19]

dewman:

=)

[15:15:24]

wagnerrp:

note to self, do not commit when tired

[15:15:57]

wagnerrp:

i manually reverted something by deleting the wrong include

[15:16:52]

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[15:19:20]

Gibby:

what should be the permissions of /var/lib/mythtv?

[15:19:39]

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[15:19:39]

wagnerrp:

read and execute

[15:20:35]

Gibby:

that is what i thought hmmm, something is wrong with my nfs mount somehwere, i think that is why my livetv is failing.... videos are failing now too

[15:21:09]

wagnerrp:

oh, /var/lib/mythtv? i thought you meant /usr/lib/mythtv

[15:21:21]

wagnerrp:

i dont have any mythtv stuff in /var

[15:21:25]

wagnerrp:

nor should you IMHO

[15:21:41]

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[15:22:00]

Gibby:

that is where my all my storage groups point too

[15:22:08]

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[15:22:08]

Gibby:

ok videos are working now just not live tv

[15:23:21]

wagnerrp:

/var is meant for variable data

[15:23:41]

wagnerrp:

recordings and videos are not variable

[15:23:56]

wagnerrp:

they are stored once, and never touched again

[15:23:56]

Gibby:

that was the default for all the storage groups, so i left it there and just made it a nfs mount to my storage server

[15:24:31]

justinh:

ahh the eternel linux naming debate

[15:24:39]

justinh:

I hate all the /var/foo stuff too fwiw

[15:24:47]

wagnerrp:

theres no debate

[15:24:51]

justinh:

*just* *because*

[15:24:57]

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[15:24:58]

wagnerrp:

just the FHS, and all those who dont follow it

[15:25:33]

Gibby:

*lost*

[15:25:58]

wagnerrp:

file hierarchy standard

[15:26:08]

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[15:27:47]

justinh:

eew /usr/share is supposed to be only read-only stuff... and ubuntu put mythweb in there

[15:28:40]

wagnerrp:

well a webroot should be read-only.... but thats what /srv is for

[15:28:41]

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[15:29:44]

justinh:

yeah but mythweb/data has to be writable IIRC

[15:30:01]

wagnerrp:

all it ever needs is symlinks

[15:30:06]

iamlindoro:

justinh: What whaaaaat? They put mythweb in /usr/share??

[15:30:33]

justinh:

iamlindoro: yeah, it's set up in mythweb.conf within sites-enabled

[15:31:00]

iamlindoro:

yechh

[15:31:19]

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[15:31:31]

iamlindoro:

I mean, I'm not a *lot* better, I just symlink to my checkout, but that's for each of development since I would always forget to update mythweb otherwise

[15:31:46]

justinh:

there's prolly loggage of when I found out myself

[15:31:58]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I do the exact same

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[15:45:15]

Gibby:

got live tv working, seemed to be an issue with 1 of the channels

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[16:03:08]

Gibby:

when doing the scan for ATSC. I get Channel locked-Timed out 2 Possible channels.... but it doesn't pick either channel up?.... I am confused as to why, the station is only 10 miles from me and i am pointed directly at it

[16:07:44]

wagnerrp:

what tuner? are you in a city?

[16:07:48]

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[16:08:17]

Gibby:

HVR-1600, yes i am in a city

[16:08:18]

Gibby:

i am using tvfool to check

[16:09:18]

wagnerrp:

due to the encoding used by ATSC, it is susceptable to multipath issues

[16:09:29]

wagnerrp:

and supposedly the 1600 is not very good at dealing with those

[16:09:46]

Gibby:

multipath?

[16:09:54]

wagnerrp:

multipath being you getting multiple different copies of the signal, reflected off buildings and other tall objects

[16:10:02]

Gibby:

ahh ok

[16:10:15]

wagnerrp:

for analog, this would show up as 'ghost' images a few pixels to the right of the main image

[16:10:40]

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[16:11:00]

Gibby:

i am doing digital only

[16:11:18]

wagnerrp:

yes, but im just using that as an example

[16:11:31]

wagnerrp:

do you, its a duplicate image

[16:11:39]

wagnerrp:

to the tuner, its a bunch of noise that prevents reception

[16:12:05]

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[16:13:15]

Gibby:

understand

[16:13:16]

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[17:07:26]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: for #8907. This is on a remote FE, not a combined BE/FE?

[17:07:37]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: correct

[17:07:56]

Beirdo:

OK. Just clarifying for myself so I can differentiate :)

[17:08:08]

Beirdo:

I have combined and not using 6200ch

[17:08:25]

Beirdo:

I think kormoc has combined but WITH 6200ch

[17:08:31]

iamlindoro:

unfortunately for me, Live TV with the HD-PVr worked fine before the signalmon changes

[17:08:44]

iamlindoro:

But I'm sure we'll work it out

[17:08:56]

Beirdo:

so we may have enough test cases to help abqjp narrow down the culprit

[17:09:37]

Beirdo:

last I tried it, it worked fine for me (as a data point) but that was over a week ago

[17:09:50]

Beirdo:

so we shall see :)

[17:10:01]

iamlindoro:

Hasn't worked even once for me since those changes

[17:10:21]

Beirdo:

hmm, I seem to remember kormoc saying he had issues too

[17:10:40]

Beirdo:

how odd

[17:10:49]

Beirdo:

well, I'm sure it will get hunted down

[17:14:35]

Beirdo:

Got your cans of Raid for the BSP?

[17:15:38]

iamlindoro:

Every day is BSP for me

[17:15:58]

iamlindoro:

(and I'll barely be around this weekend)

[17:20:10]

Beirdo:

awww

[17:20:22]

Beirdo:

OK, enjoy having a life, I guess :)

[17:23:26]

iamlindoro:

I promise that my weekend will hurt me a lot more than any BSP ;)

[17:24:02]

wagnerrp:

visiting the in-laws?

[17:24:34]

iamlindoro:

Heh, no in-laws, but have an ironman to do

[17:24:48]

wagnerrp:

ouch, the big'un

[17:25:01]

Beirdo:

oh good god

[17:25:21]

Beirdo:

so not my style, but cool

[17:25:52]

Beirdo:

until the ironman becomes eating, watching TV and coding... I'm out

[17:26:23]

iamlindoro:

Unfortunately, none of those three events contains my preferred lady-type

[17:26:23]

iamlindoro:

;)

[17:26:32]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:26:36]

Beirdo:

eating can.

[17:26:48]

Beirdo:

if done not to excess...

[17:27:40]

Beirdo:

aw man. you assigned my ticket right back to me? :)

[17:27:50]

Beirdo:

OK. can do

[17:28:34]

Beirdo:

oh look. #8872.. he finally restarted the backend and it works

[17:28:37]

Beirdo:

imagine that.

[17:28:48]

sid3windr:

wtf is an ironman :p

[17:28:51]

Beirdo:

read the instructions, user

[17:29:01]

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[17:29:05]

Beirdo:

swim/bike/run, no?

[17:29:06]

sid3windr:

oh, like that.

[17:29:09]

wagnerrp:

sid3windr: a blend of triathlon

[17:29:10]

sid3windr:

ye, just figured ;)

[17:29:32]

sid3windr:

we have a belgian that's pretty good at that ;)

[17:29:40]

sid3windr:

or was

[17:29:49]

wagnerrp:

die from exhaustion?

[17:30:06]

sid3windr:

no, he's alive, but I don't think he's still winning much ;)

[17:30:39]

iamlindoro:

IronMan is *the* triathlon. The one that started it all

[17:31:02]

iamlindoro:

And the best men in it are Americans ;) (granted, the best Woman is from the UK)

[17:31:30]

wagnerrp:

north? south? central?

[17:31:36]

iamlindoro:

Who wouldn't want to spend a Sunday on a leisurely 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike ride, and 26 mile run?

[17:31:40]

Beirdo:

Rednecked?

[17:31:54]

sid3windr:

Luc Van Lierde went on to clock the fastest Ironman Triathlon ever in 1997, doing 7:50:27 (0:44, 4:28, 2:36, plus transition) in Ironman Europe

[17:31:58]

sid3windr:

different continent I guess ;)

[17:32:03]

Beirdo:

pass... pass almost as much... and definitely pass

[17:32:20]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: well theyre all rednecked... hunched over those bike handlebars for hours in the mid-day sun

[17:32:29]

kormoc_afk is now known as kormoc

[17:32:34]

Beirdo:

hehe, they are when they're done for sure

[17:32:39]

iamlindoro:

brown necked, thankyouverymuch

[17:32:58]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: thats only after the burn subsides and the tan kicks in

[17:33:08]

iamlindoro:

We wear sunscreen, yo

[17:33:08]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:33:11]

iamlindoro:

Those of us who are smart

[17:33:24]

Beirdo:

I'd hope so

[17:33:25]

wagnerrp:

:)

[17:33:31]

iamlindoro:

Believe me, the triathlon experience is more than enough without adding a burn to it

[17:34:03]

iamlindoro:

I didn't wear sunscreen at my very first ironman. I STILL have lines from that burn, and it was years ago

[17:34:53]

Beirdo:

eek

[17:34:59]

Beirdo:

OK, let me get this straight...

[17:35:13]

Beirdo:

you're athletic.. you're artistic... and you can code...

[17:35:24]

** Beirdo gives iamlindoro the evil eye **

[17:35:31]

Beirdo:

you're making us look bad, man!

[17:35:44]

wagnerrp:

dont worry, the vocal users already hate him

[17:35:45]

iamlindoro:

ADHD FTW!

[17:35:47]

iamlindoro:

hah

[17:35:48]

iamlindoro:

so true

[17:37:20]

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[17:38:35]

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[17:38:48]

wagnerrp:

only 350 'wanted pages' on the wiki to go

[17:38:51]

james is now known as Guest56941

[17:39:00]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:39:26]

Beirdo:

I'm feeling... restless... today

[17:39:31]

Beirdo:

not good.

[17:40:05]

Guest56941:

Request help understanding message in mythbackend.log.

[17:40:17]

wagnerrp:

pastebin 'em

[17:41:17]

Guest56941:

Single line: 2010-09–10 13:39:42.361 MythSocket(7f9968a71130:82): new socket What does the 7f9968a71130 stand for?

[17:41:30]

wagnerrp:

arbitrary unique id

[17:41:52]

wagnerrp:

its probably a memory address or something

[17:41:56]

wagnerrp:

nothing to be concerned with

[17:43:17]

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[17:43:53]

Guest56941:

I have lots of socket went unconnected and other socket messages in my MBE. The MBE eventually locks and has to be restarted. My SBE runs fine throughout the entire time.

[17:44:14]

wagnerrp:

what version are you running?

[17:44:18]

kormoc:

Are you using monit or similar monitoring tool to check that the process is up?

[17:44:52]

wagnerrp:

are you using third party tools to access the backend socket?

[17:45:08]

Guest56941:

0.23.1–26163 no monit, FE no longer can view recording list and backend http status page times out.

[17:45:49]

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[17:45:49]

kormoc:

are you using any upnp devices?

[17:46:50]

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[17:46:50]

Guest56941:

Not intentionally. Just running FE on my MBE and one other FE only machine. Wife has a Win7 laptop that my see the upnp, but it does not play any recordings.

[17:48:21]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you have any Intel CPU advice for me?

[17:48:40]

wagnerrp:

such as...?

[17:48:43]

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[17:48:44]

Beirdo:

considering Core 2 Quad or quad-core i5/i7 whatever

[17:49:06]

Beirdo:

but I'm not sure if either has detriments when it comes to using it for commflag/transcoding

[17:49:32]

Beirdo:

it's unclear to me how much CPU is "required" :)

[17:49:47]

Beirdo:

PentiumD 2.8GHz isn't cutting it

[17:50:04]

Beirdo:

granted, that's ancient technology in comparison

[17:50:09]

wagnerrp:

well an i5 is going to give you considerably more 'power' than a C2Q

[17:50:29]

wagnerrp:

an i7 is going to consume a lot more power than an i5, and all you get is an additional memory channel

[17:50:34]

Beirdo:

OK, so more computing power "per GHz"?

[17:50:41]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[17:50:49]

wagnerrp:

as far as prices, i dont know off hand

[17:50:50]

Beirdo:

K, good to know.

[17:51:02]

Beirdo:

yeah, prices are easy to track down

[17:51:09]

wagnerrp:

transcoding to...? for mythweb streaming?

[17:51:38]

Beirdo:

occasional nuvexports for archiving... to H.264 low resolution most likely

[17:51:48]

Beirdo:

but mostly for commflag

[17:52:02]

wagnerrp:

because a quadcore probably isnt going to help much above a dual

[17:52:17]

Beirdo:

my current setup is busy commflagging a show from 7pm last night

[17:52:22]

Beirdo:

oh?

[17:52:32]

Beirdo:

hmmm, I guess it's not that threaded yet?

[17:52:32]

wagnerrp:

certainly not for commflagging

[17:52:47]

wagnerrp:

HDPVR content is not sliced, so no multithreading

[17:52:54]

Beirdo:

gack, right

[17:52:58]

wagnerrp:

MPEG2 content outright doesnt support it

[17:53:12]

Beirdo:

MPEG2 doesn't need much help right now for me

[17:53:19]

wagnerrp:

you can slice up h264 encodings, but youre still going to be limited to however fast you can decode that original recording

[17:53:33]

Beirdo:

understood

[17:53:55]

wagnerrp:

on the other hand, if this is a general purpose server, of course i would recommend a quad

[17:54:02]

Beirdo:

so you're thinking a dual-core might more closely fit the bill

[17:54:15]

Beirdo:

well, I'll likely use it to compile a lot too :)

[17:54:22]

Beirdo:

but that's a minor differenc

[17:54:32]

wagnerrp:

for mythtv use only, a dual is sufficient

[17:54:35]

kormoc:

Beirdo, it's not uncommon for my mac pro to be running 3–4 commflagging threads

[17:54:38]

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[17:54:40]

Beirdo:

oooh

[17:54:50]

wagnerrp:

right, you could simply run more than one job at a time

[17:54:51]

Beirdo:

yeah, each can use one core.

[17:54:53]

kormoc:

if I have back to back recordings, they pile up

[17:54:55]

Beirdo:

so right

[17:55:03]

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[17:55:22]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think quad still has its advantage, I'd forgotten about increasing max jobs :)

[17:55:26]

kormoc:

(And not being able to 'delete' (rec-group) the file while it's flagging is sucky)

[17:55:35]

Beirdo:

you can

[17:55:42]

Beirdo:

but you have to do it from playback

[17:55:47]

Beirdo:

and yeah, it's sucky

[17:55:49]

kormoc:

that's crappy

[17:56:18]

Beirdo:

I agree, the same code used by playback to override should get put into the menuing

[17:56:26]

Beirdo:

or something :)

[17:56:35]

Beirdo:

that is an annoyance for me nearly daily

[17:57:09]

Beirdo:

one I can work around, but would be nice to change at some point

[17:57:44]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: thanks... would you know how they compare to AMD Phenoms, generally

[17:58:18]

wagnerrp:

probably drop 15% performance per clock

[17:58:50]

Beirdo:

i.e. intel's 15% higher per clock?

[17:58:50]

wagnerrp:

they end up being competitive in performance per price

[17:58:53]

Beirdo:

or lower?

[17:58:59]

wagnerrp:

intel is higher

[17:59:02]

Beirdo:

K

[17:59:33]

Beirdo:

beautiful, thanks

[17:59:45]

wagnerrp:

depending on your board, you may just be able to drop in a replacement C2Q

[17:59:54]

Beirdo:

get me the info to sanely select...

[17:59:59]

Beirdo:

hmmm, not sure

[18:00:07]

wagnerrp:

what chipset?

[18:00:09]

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[18:00:27]

wagnerrp:

anything 965 or newer should handle it

[18:00:34]

wagnerrp:

945 or 975, maybe not

[18:00:37]

Beirdo:

945, it seems

[18:01:24]

Beirdo:

I'm thinking of getting like a Shuttle or something small

[18:02:02]

Beirdo:

and a small Atom-based (so sue me) 4-bay box to be like a home-built NAS at reasonable pricing

[18:02:18]

wagnerrp:

why not just combine them?

[18:02:24]

wagnerrp:

looking to standby the backend when not in use?

[18:02:24]

Beirdo:

and likely the replacement master backend

[18:02:39]

Beirdo:

hmm, I dunno

[18:02:57]

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[18:02:58]

wagnerrp:

if not, youre just going to end up with two machines running full time

[18:03:18]

Beirdo:

I kinda want something smallish, and it's hard to find boxes with real CPU that are both small and have plenty of drive bays

[18:03:31]

Beirdo:

true, that is an option :)

[18:04:04]

Beirdo:

but then it'd be basically a normal mid-tower box again

[18:04:23]

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[18:04:51]

wagnerrp:

what case were you going to use for the NAS box?

[18:05:10]

Beirdo:

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-Aspire-easyStore-A . . . /B003KTN668/

[18:05:16]

Beirdo:

something along those lines

[18:05:51]

wagnerrp:

something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112266 ?

[18:05:54]

Beirdo:

or HP x310... mini home-server

[18:06:10]

Beirdo:

nah, prebuilt

[18:06:24]

wagnerrp:

so, not home-built

[18:06:49]

Beirdo:

correct, only home-built in that I'd be running Linux, not Microsoft Home Server

[18:06:51]

dewman:

quick question, if I upgrade my hdhr to the latest beta firmware is there any changes needed for mythtv?

[18:06:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

my combination master backend / fileserver is a 2.5Ghz Core Duo Pentium in an old Gateway Pentium 133 full tower case. lots of drive space. :)

[18:07:11]

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[18:07:20]

Beirdo:

dewman: not that I know of

[18:07:43]

Beirdo:

Captain_Murdoch: yeah, but I'm trying to shrink... and have no old full towers to reuse anyways :)

[18:07:43]

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[18:08:51]

dewman:

Beirdo, ok thanks, I asked in #hdhomerun but not to many people are awake in there....

[18:08:53]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: that likttle LIAN Li isn't bad

[18:09:07]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: just thinking that case, with maybe one of these... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500056

[18:09:24]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[18:09:31]

Beirdo:

that is a possibility, yes :)

[18:09:46]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, you guys with houses and your gobs of space

[18:10:02]

Beirdo:

actually, that combo would work well

[18:10:16]

Beirdo:

6 internal bays... 2 for system, 4 for storage...

[18:10:32]

wagnerrp:

the only fault i see is only 2 memory slots

[18:10:42]

wagnerrp:

which limits you to 4GB, or expensive memory

[18:10:46]

Beirdo:

and...

[18:10:52]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, that full tower sat under my desk at work for 8+ years. I was supposed to take it home after we had a give-away, but by the time I went to take it him, it was too slow for use, so I left it under my desk. it does take up a bit of space in my 4-post rack though, so maybe a smaller case is the way to go sometime. :)

[18:10:56]

Beirdo:

only one PCI-e, which you need for video

[18:11:15]

Beirdo:

oooh, you have a rack!? :)

[18:11:18]

Beirdo:

nice

[18:11:19]

wagnerrp:

thats right... the i5 quads dont support onboard video do they

[18:11:34]

Beirdo:

nope, the only ones I've seen were duals

[18:12:05]

Beirdo:

and I'd want VDPAU if I use it as a combined BE/FE (not sure I will be doing that though)

[18:12:32]

Beirdo:

the HDPVR and HDHomerun will be happy with it

[18:12:55]

Beirdo:

oooh

[18:12:59]

Beirdo:

mini PCIe

[18:13:08]

Beirdo:

could put a CrystalHD in there

[18:13:25]

wagnerrp:

yeah, but you still need a video card

[18:13:32]

Beirdo:

yup

[18:13:36]

wagnerrp:

unless you go dual core

[18:13:49]

wagnerrp:

but if you go dual core, the onboard video should be capable of VAAPI on its own

[18:14:03]

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[18:14:07]

Beirdo:

yeah, once we get VAAPI to the point of stability

[18:14:09]

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[18:14:15]

wagnerrp:

unless youre looking to use the CHD to offload decoding for the commflagger

[18:14:28]

Beirdo:

that also would be cool

[18:14:35]

Beirdo:

not supported yet that I know of

[18:14:40]

Beirdo:

but would be cool

[18:14:47]

wagnerrp:

although even then, it should only be able to handle realtime, right?

[18:14:58]

Beirdo:

not sure

[18:15:31]

wagnerrp:

no AMD mini-itx boards with 6 SATA ports

[18:16:27]

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[18:16:53]

wagnerrp:

you may be able to use a port expander

[18:16:59]

Beirdo:

yeah, possibly

[18:17:05]

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[18:17:10]

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[18:17:28]

Beirdo:

if I use it as backend only, I don't really need much/any video

[18:17:35]

Beirdo:

as long as Linux will boot headless

[18:17:58]

Beirdo:

put an HVR-2250 in there (as a replacement for the two PVR-250s)

[18:19:18]

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[18:20:11]

Beirdo:

$168 for 8GB memory for that board

[18:20:14]

Beirdo:

that's not bad

[18:20:47]

Beirdo:

hahahaha

[18:20:48]

Gibby:

"C" changes input in live tv right?

[18:21:12]

Beirdo:

-users... someone is trying to share a SMB mount over NFS?!

[18:21:16]

Beirdo:

ummm, no

[18:21:52]

Beirdo:

gibby, think so

[18:21:52]

Gibby:

that is what the wiki says

[18:22:03]

Beirdo:

the no was to the -users post, not you

[18:22:08]

Gibby:

sorry

[18:22:41]

Gibby:

hmm it doesn't work, stays on S-Video won't change to Tuner1

[18:22:54]

Beirdo:

use the menu maybe

[18:23:00]

Beirdo:

i.e. hit m

[18:23:09]

Gibby:

yep got it

[18:23:12]

Gibby:

that worked thanks

[18:24:24]

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[18:26:00]

Beirdo:

ooooh, a sphery-proof mini-server box

[18:26:01]

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[18:26:31]

Beirdo:

sphery:

[18:26:40]

Beirdo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105563

[18:26:42]

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[18:26:44]

Beirdo:

paste fail

[18:26:50]

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[18:29:38]

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[18:29:40]

wagnerrp:

only 4 drives

[18:29:51]

Beirdo:

yup

[18:29:58]

wagnerrp:

tivo support?

[18:30:08]

Beirdo:

he was complaining about the Atom in the other one I showed him

[18:30:09]

Beirdo:

:)

[18:30:34]

wagnerrp:

did that lianli case come with a PSU?

[18:30:40]

Beirdo:

granted, the Atom one is cheaper... and if it's JUST a fileserver...

[18:30:41]

Beirdo:

nope

[18:30:46]

Beirdo:

just the case

[18:31:23]

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[18:32:28]

Beirdo:

the allure of buying pre-built is the cost benefit

[18:32:46]

Beirdo:

but there's a lot of tradeoffs on what you get

[18:32:50]

wagnerrp:

no, its considerably more expensive for what you get

[18:33:04]

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[18:33:36]

wagnerrp:

that same system, minus the windows license, would be about $425 built yourself

[18:33:39]

Beirdo:

when you add it all up... case + mobo + power supply + RAM + disk + CPU... it is in the same general price range

[18:34:12]

Beirdo:

and you get the drives as "hot swappable" kinda

[18:34:15]

Beirdo:

on trays

[18:34:35]

wagnerrp:

right now, youre looking at $650 + drives

[18:34:36]

Beirdo:

I dunno. both have merits

[18:34:53]

Beirdo:

not if I went with the Atom one for a fileserver

[18:34:55]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:34:56]

wagnerrp:

thats for a 2.8GHz i5 quad, and 8GB of memory

[18:35:02]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:35:11]

Beirdo:

for what I really would want

[18:35:25]

wagnerrp:

but youre going to spend the money on the more powerful system regardless

[18:36:53]

wagnerrp:

the only merit pre-built systems have is your time

[18:37:07]

Beirdo:

yeah

[18:37:10]

wagnerrp:

its pre-built, do you arent going to have to spend your time building and installing it

[18:37:21]

wagnerrp:

but youre not going to find such a pre-built linux/mythtv box

[18:37:31]

Beirdo:

and perhaps support (warranty)

[18:37:42]

Beirdo:

which I don't care about that much

[18:37:59]

wagnerrp:

youre a tinkerer, your warranties are invalid... :P

[18:38:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:38:22]

Beirdo:

true true

[18:40:22]

Beirdo:

well, in about a week, I might actually buy something (payday is good)

[18:41:24]

Beirdo:

gah, why do people think I want blue LEDs in my power supply!

[18:41:34]

Beirdo:

retarded!

[18:41:48]

Beirdo:

I have enough blue lights lighting the room, thanks!

[18:41:50]

wagnerrp:

how else are you going to tell the computer is on when youre hiding underneath your desk?

[18:42:12]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:42:19]

wagnerrp:

you should see my MSI board in my desktop

[18:42:25]

wagnerrp:

its like a disco ball

[18:42:38]

Beirdo:

wow there's lots of hype in these power supply listings

[18:42:48]

wagnerrp:

multi-color LEDs light up all over the board to signify various components initializing and powering up

[18:44:30]

Beirdo:

fun

[18:45:00]

wagnerrp:

WTF is the 'Myth Boxer'?

[18:45:19]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio

[18:45:30]

wagnerrp:

is that someone who manages a mythtv system?

[18:46:09]

Beirdo:

or someone like Mohammed Ali... a mythical boxer

[18:46:11]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:46:30]

Beirdo:

yeah, I know he did exist

[18:46:39]

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[18:48:12]

adasd:

hello

[18:48:34]

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[18:48:42]

Beirdo:

goodbye

[18:48:42]

wagnerrp:

goodbye

[18:48:45]

wagnerrp:

bah

[18:48:48]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:48:57]

wagnerrp:

stupid focus... i was typing in the wrong window

[18:49:18]

stuartm:

although it's not the aim of the event, it would be great to get below 300 tickets this weekend, that would be another psychological milestone

[18:49:44]

Beirdo:

well, we can always try :)

[18:49:52]

iamlindoro:

stuartm: I will be very disappointed if we don't close 38 tickets this weekend

[18:50:31]

iamlindoro:

38 should be *easily* doable-- there are many, many tickets in there that simply need the go/no-go from the people responsible for them

[18:50:39]

iamlindoro:

We could probably do 38 without a commit

[18:52:10]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: oh I'm aware, but then again I expect we might see some new tickets opened

[18:52:32]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[18:52:32]

** skd5aner queues up 39 tickets **

[18:52:35]

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[18:53:56]

skd5aner:

to clarify...

[18:54:03]

** skd5aner queues up 39 tickets... to submit **

[18:54:22]

skd5aner:

yuk yuk yuk

[18:54:35]

skd5aner:

::rimshot::

[18:57:51]

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[18:59:12]

Beirdo:

I just added 3 to 0.24, but expect to have them done tonight

[18:59:18]

Beirdo:

(on my queue)

[18:59:46]

Beirdo:

I expect to close 4 tonight unless I pass out first

[18:59:47]

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[19:01:31]

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[19:08:44]

Gibby:

hmm ok, i have tried the wiki and tried using devilspie, how do I get mythfrontend to launch of my 2nd screen

[19:09:10]

wagnerrp:

theres an option in the frontend general setup to set the Xinerama screen

[19:09:27]

wagnerrp:

presuming youre using Xinerama, and not independent screens

[19:09:35]

Gibby:

i am using twinview

[19:09:44]

wagnerrp:

twinview... dont know about that one

[19:09:54]

Gibby:

under tv settings right?

[19:09:59]

wagnerrp:

no, general

[19:10:36]

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[19:11:47]

Gibby:

actually not under general, under appearance

[19:12:02]

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[19:12:04]

wagnerrp:

isnt appearance under general?

[19:12:15]

Beirdo:

that may have issues

[19:12:15]

Gibby:

nope

[19:12:36]

stuartm:

twinview/xinerama, same thing to myth

[19:12:43]

Beirdo:

some video card drivers will not let you overlay video/etc onto the second monitor

[19:13:01]

[R]:

Beirdo: with twinview you can

[19:13:06]

Beirdo:

OK.

[19:13:24]

Gibby:

yep it is working perfect

[19:13:28]

stuartm:

this machine is using twinview + mythfrontend

[19:14:13]

Gibby:

yes

[19:15:01]

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[19:15:16]

Gibby:

hmm would be nice to get mythzoneminder in PIP

[19:15:27]

stuartm:

it wasn't a yes or no question, it was a statement ;) The machine I'm typing this from is currently playing a film on the second screen whilst I triage tickets

[19:16:06]

iamlindoro:

!trout stuartm pay-attention-mister-Morgan

[19:16:06]

** MythLogBot slaps stuartm with a pay-attention-mister-Morgan trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[19:16:29]

Gibby:

:)

[19:16:53]

[R]:

stuartm: whilst? fancy aren't we?

[19:17:24]

skd5aner:

just British

[19:17:30]

[R]:

haha

[19:17:36]

[R]:

crazy british people

[19:17:49]

[R]:

i met a british guy once... he was pretty cool

[19:18:01]

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[19:27:08]

Beirdo:

sphery: there you go trying to make my db even bigger :)

[19:27:25]

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[19:36:18]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, not that a few marks will be that much space :)

[19:37:48]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:37:52]

Beirdo:

depends on the show

[19:37:53]

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[19:38:14]

Beirdo:

some shows have a LOT of frame transitions, including blank frames

[19:38:19]

Beirdo:

but meh :)

[19:38:28]

Beirdo:

if it makes life better... fill my db

[19:38:30]

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[19:39:15]

[R]:

sphery: so i gave up on my dreams of conquest... but i did see that Amarok uses its own custom class to talk to mysql instead of using the QT one

[19:39:19]

clever_ is now known as clever

[19:39:30]

sphery:

well, like I mentioned, I don't know which frame(s) we'd store as blank--start/end type thing or just the ones used after the flagger makes its final decision or ...

[19:39:40]

sphery:

I figure Captain_Murdoch would know better how we should deal with that

[19:39:54]

sphery:

and maybe even just choosing a single frame withing the blankness

[19:40:25]

sphery:

Beirdo: I am surprised, though, that you got that far in the post--it /was/ long :)

[19:40:36]

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[19:40:57]

sphery:

[R]: yeah, that's one of the things we may do--just include the code ourselves

[19:41:08]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:41:12]

stuartm:

what's wrong with whilst?

[19:41:20]

Beirdo:

I do long long emails myself

[19:41:35]

[R]:

stuartm: i didn't realize it was a britishism

[19:41:55]

Beirdo:

stuartm: nothing :) just... seems English.

[19:41:57]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:42:24]

Beirdo:

of course, having grown up reading OLD English (King James Bible...) didn't phase me a bit.

[19:43:55]

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[19:43:55]

stuartm:

iamlindoro: if I didn't watch tv while* working on mythtv, then I'd never keep up and if I didn't watch my recording then I'd have no reason to work on mythtv :D

[19:44:15]

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[19:44:19]

Beirdo:

yeah, likewise

[19:44:42]

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[19:44:48]

Beirdo:

there's almost always some insipid program playing while I work on it

[19:44:58]

Beirdo:

often Scrubs / Family Guy

[19:44:58]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:45:05]

stuartm:

s/recording/recordings/ ... think I put too much vodka in this drink :/

[19:45:08]

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[19:45:18]

Beirdo:

mmm, vodka

[19:45:32]

[R]:

stuartm: vodka at 8 in the evening?

[19:45:52]

stuartm:

[R]: I was out of beer

[19:45:55]

[R]:

ROFL

[19:46:01]

stuartm:

and it's nearer 9 ;)

[19:47:07]

stuartm:

Beirdo: ditto, I tend to have something uncomplicated playing, which is why I have dozens of unwatched foreign films taking up all my disk space, you can't give a subtitled film half your attention

[19:47:19]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:47:30]

Beirdo:

yeah, that's for post release relaxation

[19:52:51]

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[19:55:01]

kormoc:

stuartm, there is no such thing as too much vodka!

[19:55:35]

** iamlindoro chases kormoc into #mythtv-bsp **

[19:56:06]

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[19:56:07]

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[19:56:32]

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[20:00:34]

stuartm:

kormoc: heh, I'd tend to agree, I'm currently taking medication and I just thought to check the warning leaflet that comes with it, " ... may cause dizziness or tiredness ... We recommend you do not drive or operate machinery for several hours after taking ... Drinking alcohol may also make these symptoms worse." ... oops

[20:00:51]

kormoc:

whoops!

[20:04:25]

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[20:11:03]

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[20:13:27]

Beirdo:

heheh, oops

[20:13:53]

Beirdo:

I should hunt down the nearest vodka vendor (to work)

[20:14:04]

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[20:15:09]

Beirdo:

Hmmm. State store 2... 2nd & Seneca

[20:15:23]

Beirdo:

that's not too bad

[20:15:40]

kormoc:

decent selection too

[20:15:45]

Beirdo:

these store hours blow. 10–6!

[20:15:47]

kormoc:

lots of 360 vodka

[20:15:53]

Beirdo:

frigging govt

[20:16:19]

Beirdo:

cool. I feel the need to have vodka to help squash bugs this weekend

[20:17:47]

Beirdo:

looks like there or 7th & Bell

[20:18:07]

Beirdo:

not really on my path from work to home, but 11–8 for hours

[20:19:55]

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[20:22:15]

** stuartm tries to imagine a country where every corner store, supermarket and off-licence does not stock a wide range of spirits including vodka **

[20:22:39]

kormoc:

7th and bell?

[20:22:43]

** kormoc blinks **

[20:23:20]

Beirdo:

state store 46. 7th & Bell :)

[20:23:30]

Beirdo:

be handy for you.

[20:23:49]

kormoc:

yeah, which is why I'm confused why I've never see it there

[20:24:26]

Beirdo:

heh, yeah

[20:24:44]

Beirdo:

2300 7th Ave Ste A

[20:24:47]

stuartm:

"state store"? Sounds like something out of a sci-fi film or novel about a totalitarian future!

[20:25:07]

stuartm:

a side of the USA I most definitely was not aware of

[20:25:16]

Beirdo:

depends on the state :)

[20:25:28]

Beirdo:

most of Canada works that way too (it's up to the province)

[20:25:46]

Beirdo:

there are good points to it as well as the bad

[20:26:32]

Beirdo:

LCBO in Ontario is one of the largest alcohol purchasers in the world... so they can stock stuff at decent prices and you can get even expensive stuff easily anywhere in Ontario

[20:26:50]

Beirdo:

if they don't have it in stock in that store, they get it there from Toronto PDQ

[20:27:09]

stuartm:

all stores selling alcohol here must be licensed, but there are still plenty of them and they don't get labelled with a tag like 'state store http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/46 ' :)

[20:27:20]

Beirdo:

I'm used to the idea of government run liquor stores

[20:27:33]

stuartm:

and they are all privately owned/run

[20:27:43]

Beirdo:

hopefully Costco can sell the hard stuff here soon :)

[20:28:38]

stuartm:

well that's pretty interesting, seems I can't learn all there is to know about North America from films and tv ;)

[20:28:44]

Captain_Murdoch:

stuartm, state monopoly is another way to put it. :) Virginia is that way as well although our current Governor is trying to get that privatized with a limited number of licenses statewide.

[20:29:13]

Beirdo:

there are good and bad sides to it all

[20:29:47]

Captain_Murdoch:

in Virginia, there are 2 government agencies that actually make money, the ABC (Alcohol Beverage Control??) and the DMV (Division of Motor Vehicles, licenses, tags, etc.)

[20:30:51]

stuartm:

Captain_Murdoch: right, so having seen how profitable prohibition was for the gangsters, they went the other direction and made themselves the sole distributors, it's amazing :)

[20:31:58]

[R]:

is there a way to make myth put the thumbnails in a seperate directory?

[20:31:58]

stuartm:

here we just have a hefty tax on alcoholic beverages

[20:32:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

the power of the gun. <soapbox>and now that power is going to be used at the national level to force people to buy something from a private company in the form of insurance</soapbox>

[20:33:25]

stuartm:

I'm guessing that's a reference to the healthcare reforms?

[20:34:21]

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[20:37:06]

stuartm:

safe to say that the rest of the world is watching the battle in the US over healthcare with a mixture of shock and amusement, especially in europe the idea than people would fight _against_ universal healthcare is very difficult to comprehend, especially when so many people needlessly suffer as a result

[20:37:37]

stuartm:

agh, that's too political for this channel, sorry, I blame the vodka + free medication

[20:40:34]

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[20:41:23]

kormoc:

stuartm, a lot of the US is watching the battle over healthcare with a mixture of shock and fear as they might win :(

[20:42:31]

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[20:44:45]

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[20:45:02]

stuartm:

kormoc: very different cultures

[20:45:17]

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[20:45:47]

kormoc:

stuartm, nah, a fair number of us think it's just as absurd to be arguing as you guys do

[20:45:54]

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[20:46:52]

kormoc:

stuartm, you likely don't know this but Hawaii has had socialized heath care for 40+ years now

[20:46:58]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: i think the bigger issue is that the entire health care system is a complete mess

[20:47:15]

wagnerrp:

and forcing people into shared insurance isnt going to fix anything

[20:47:17]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, which is why I'm for death pannels!

[20:47:18]

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[20:48:09]

wagnerrp:

theyre trying to alleviate a symptom, rather than fix the reason health care is so expensive in the first place

[20:49:10]

stuartm:

heh, kormoc what I don't know on this subject would fill the British library, but then again the situation is pretty simple, it's the politics and special interests which make it so complicated

[20:49:27]

** sphery recommends watching The Ascent of Money **

[20:49:47]

sphery:

it discusses the pros and cons of state-sponsored health care

[20:49:53]

** Captain_Murdoch wasn't trying to start something, just commenting on the power of government, re: "those who have the guns have the power" **

[20:50:09]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: from the little I do know, that's certainly true, the proposed solution is a hopelessly flawed compromise yet still a stepping stone to something better

[20:50:43]

stuartm:

but I really don't think you need a foreigner to be commenting on the internal politics of your country

[20:50:51]

sphery:

The Ascent of Money also points to 3 different countries with state-sponsored health care and its past/present/future effects. Japan, UK, Chile

[20:51:21]

** Beirdo wishes he where hammered **

[20:51:25]

** Captain_Murdoch points a gun at sphery and demands a $20 so I can 'sponsor' something for someone else. **

[20:51:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

:)

[20:51:50]

** Beirdo stole Captain_Murdoch's bullets, so sphery is safe **

[20:52:01]

sphery:

phew!

[20:52:07]

sphery:

thanks Beirdo

[20:52:12]

Beirdo:

he could still pistol-whip ya though

[20:52:12]

kormoc:

I'm a progressive socialist! Tax me!

[20:52:28]

** Beirdo taxes kormoc back into the dark ages **

[20:53:08]

Beirdo:

I hear that water in Boston Harbor makes for a fine cup of tea

[20:53:21]

kormoc:

Beirdo, The best part is overall, I pay more in taxes then my canadian counterparts and if you add in my healthcare/whatnots, I pay a ton more then they do and they have better care and benefits

[20:53:35]

Beirdo:

scary thought

[20:53:54]

Beirdo:

let's go to Vancouver and celebrate.

[20:53:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:53:58]

Beirdo:

nah

[20:54:05]

kormoc:

Bloody Canadians getting Codeine over the counter....

[20:54:17]

stuartm:

sphery: I'll look out for that film. I've seen a far number of propaganda originating in the US which discusses healthcare in the UK but it's nothing but lies, nothing I recognise at all and the flaws it highlights are flaws of all medical systems e.g. doctors/nurses aren't perfect and they aren't miracle workers

[20:54:19]

Beirdo:

not much

[20:54:29]

kormoc:

Beirdo, more then we get (none!)

[20:54:36]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: and you can pirate music as long as you promise to burn it to optical media

[20:54:37]

Beirdo:

8mg codeine in OTC drugs is pretty... weak

[20:54:52]

kormoc:

8mg codeine > 0mg codeine

[20:54:56]

Beirdo:

true

[20:55:03]

Beirdo:

opiates are opiates :)

[20:55:11]

sphery:

Anyway, I /really/ recommend watching: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/ascentofmoney/ , specifically episode 3, Risky Business, or just read the book. Oh, and stuartm, he's actually British.

[20:55:14]

Beirdo:

Tylenol 3 is far nicer

[20:55:27]

kormoc:

tylenol 3 is codine + tylenol

[20:55:37]

Beirdo:

yes, but a LOT more than 8mg codeine

[20:55:42]

sphery:

stuartm: so this propaganda originates in the mind of a Brit :)

[20:56:00]

kormoc:

30 mg

[20:56:03]

sphery:

http://www.niallferguson.com/site/FERG/Templa . . . spx?pageid=1 for his home page and http://www.amazon.com/Ascent-Money-Financial- . . . p/1594201927 for the book

[20:56:07]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: do you know where the controls for the commit keywords are?

[20:56:07]

sphery:

it's very interesting

[20:56:24]

kormoc:

tylnol 5 is where it's at, 90 mg

[20:56:28]

Beirdo:

kormoc: 30–32mg in fagt... 1/2 grain

[20:56:30]

Beirdo:

yeah

[20:56:40]

Beirdo:

tylenol 5.. that would be cool

[20:56:53]

** kormoc eats a poppy seed muffin wisfully **

[20:57:00]

** Beirdo has a bottle of Canadian 222 at his desk **

[20:57:07]

sphery:

it actually discusses the effects that nationalized health care has /beyond/ health care--those are the effects that are ruining Japan's economy and making a faction in Chile want to disband nationalize health care

[20:57:09]

wagnerrp:

im looking to implement kormoc's suggestion of making commits automatically set milestone and owner

[20:57:24]

kormoc:

%s/kormoc/sphery?/

[20:57:44]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure that was you yesterday

[20:57:56]

stuartm:

sphery: well nationality is no guarantee of intelligence or lack of bias :) The NHS does face the issues of an ageing population etc, but it's still preferable over dying because you can't afford insurance, or because an insurance company decides not to pay

[20:57:57]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, I just said you'd be the easy one to write that support

[20:58:00]

high-rez:

So how far along is the crystal hd support in trunk ? Is it usable/

[20:58:05]

high-rez:

s/\//g

[20:58:05]

Beirdo:

well, generic Tylenol 1 anyways

[20:58:12]

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[20:58:26]

wagnerrp:

oh, you were just the one who pinged me on it

[20:58:51]

sphery:

stuartm: Yeah, I'd say from a standpoint of health care and insurance, it's a perfect plan. Unfortunately, there's more to it than just that.

[20:59:05]

kormoc:

here's all I want

[20:59:10]

stuartm:

I wouldn't describe Michael Moore as an unbiased or even good film maker, but there was nothing in Sicko that I remember being patently untrue

[20:59:11]

high-rez:

a hug

[20:59:21]

kormoc:

State sponsored minimum living conditions

[20:59:47]

kormoc:

here's a small bunk with a light, you'll get 3 meals, showers, and toilets

[20:59:54]

kormoc:

get sick, there's a doctor

[21:00:09]

high-rez:

kormoc: They had an interesting conversation on KUOW about that other day.

[21:00:15]

kormoc:

basic living should be available to all

[21:00:34]

stuartm:

here I go again, I need a leash, can't resist participating in a good argument

[21:00:42]

** stuartm gets back to fixing bugs **

[21:01:08]

Beirdo:

hehe

[21:01:16]

Beirdo:

go squish a bug

[21:01:30]

high-rez:

kormoc: I think basically the WPA provided that during the great depression... Some suggest we need something like the WPA again.

[21:01:33]

Beirdo:

be back

[21:02:00]

kormoc:

high-rez, sure, I just think it should be available to all forever

[21:03:43]

kormoc:

if you want more, go get a job, work and live it up

[21:03:43]

kormoc:

but if something ever happens, at least you'll still have a place to sleep and won't starve to death

[21:03:43]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I know very little of trac, but it seems it used to be a script called trac-post-commit-hook , and has changed (per http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracUpgrade ) as documented at http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracRepositoryA . . . chronization and http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracRepositoryAdmin#ExplicitSync (with the latter being the preferred approach)

[21:03:43]

sphery:

don't know if we've switched to the ExplicitSync method, yet, though

[21:03:43]

high-rez:

Sure. WPA was an interesting idea. Sounds like a lot of people got good work skills and ethics out of it. An amazing ammount of stuff locally was built by it.

[21:03:43]

kormoc:

sphery, no, we haven't

[21:03:43]

sphery:

maybe we should--sounds like it's much more efficient

[21:03:46]

kormoc:

high-rez, my thing is when something happens and you're out on your ass in the streets, it's epically difficult to pick yourself up and continue on

[21:03:50]

sphery:

wonder if it's related to our trac's hanging

[21:03:53]

kormoc:

high-rez, let's make that easier....

[21:04:03]

Spida:

can anybody tell me what I can do against mytharchive failing to burn a dvd because of "**ERROR: [mplex] Too many frame drops -exiting

[21:04:06]

Spida:

"

[21:04:11]

Spida:

http://spida.net/tmp/mythburn.log

[21:04:16]

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[21:04:29]

high-rez:

kormoc: The WPA would solve tha. Join the WPA, you get room/board/healthcare for free. You get paid crap, but you get to keep it all. And you're working on public works projects.

[21:05:01]

kormoc:

I actually think that it should be even more open

[21:05:02]

high-rez:

kormoc: Not sure if you ever listen to KUOW – but this very thing was discussed a couple days ago :)

[21:05:03]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: why take part in the WPA when you can go on welfare and sit on your butt all day

[21:05:07]

kormoc:

you don't even have to work, or anything

[21:05:12]

sphery:

high-rez: and you're secured against interception or tampering as you move across the airways

[21:05:18]

kormoc:

just show up, here's a bed, a shower, some food and a doctor

[21:05:29]

kormoc:

high-rez, I used to when I drove, not so much now that I bus everywhere

[21:05:36]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: /nothing/ will get fixed until you disband welfare

[21:05:55]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: Thats a strawman.

[21:06:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, if they want that, they should get a job. why should I have to pay for someone else to sit on his butt all day long.

[21:06:59]

stuartm:

/nothing/ will get fixed until you euthanise the unemployed

[21:07:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

the more people that do that, the more the system goes down the drain

[21:07:11]

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[21:07:23]

Captain_Murdoch:

stuartm, nah, make them work (and pay taxes). :)

[21:08:55]

stuartm:

damn it, sorry, best I leave the channel ...

[21:08:55]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, I feel that as a human you're entitled to a minimum level of living

[21:08:55]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, and I also believe that all the people being forced into jobs they have no interest in is hurting us more then it's helping

[21:08:55]

kormoc:

it's keeping the really passionate people out

[21:08:55]

high-rez:

wagnerrp: "welfare" supports a VERY small percentage of our population, and makes up a very very small ammount of our government spending. Its popular to attack but it just distracts from what we're really spending on. Nothing will be fixed until the GOV stops spending so much money. Nothing will be fixed until the west's trade imbalance with china is fixed.

[21:08:55]

kormoc:

I also believe that the lack of a pillow under everyone encourages people to play it safe rather then take risks

[21:08:55]

kormoc:

this is american, take the risk!

[21:09:09]

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[21:09:43]

stuartm:

Captain_Murdoch: a country doesn't end up with several million unemployed if there are plenty of jobs available and adequate eduction ... not everyone chooses unemployment

[21:10:07]

high-rez:

We should tarrif the crap out of all imports that are made in a way that is environmentally damaging. Its cheaper to move manufacturing out of the US to china because there's really no environmental standards over there. There's no rights for people to unionize over there – and companies like foxconn put people to work in slave like conditions.

[21:10:08]

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[21:10:24]

stuartm:

but if you'll forgive me commenting and running, I really need to get out of here before the whole night has passed and I've achieved nothing of worth

[21:10:29]

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[21:10:44]

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[21:11:25]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, I don't purpose to give them great food, but rice, beans, meat

[21:11:29]

kormoc:

it's cheap enough and why not

[21:12:11]

sphery:

funny enough, that may mean they're eating better than our school kids

[21:12:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

and there's lots of low-paying jobs that they could do. otherwise we wouldn't have an immigration problem.

[21:12:21]

sphery:

(who get chemicals, preservatives, and fillers)

[21:12:22]

kormoc:

which is just f-ed up

[21:12:46]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, I'd rather the immigrates who wanted to work do it rather then the people that don't care

[21:12:55]

Captain_Murdoch:

community service. create jobs. picking up trash along the road, etc..

[21:13:10]

dustybin:

good exercise and fresh air

[21:13:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, that's the problem, they don't care.

[21:13:33]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, if they're happy with rice/beans/etc and a bed and nothing else, I don't see a reason why we wouldn't give them that and let them be

[21:13:48]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, and that's not going to change

[21:13:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

send them all to one place then. :) Alaska maybe.

[21:14:04]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, forcing them to get jobs means they'll just be doing the jobs in the worse way they can

[21:14:09]

kormoc:

it doesn't help anyone

[21:14:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

occupies their time

[21:14:24]

sphery:

WWTFD?

[21:14:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

:)

[21:14:31]

sphery:

What Would The Federation Do?

[21:14:36]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, why do we care if their time is occupied or not?

[21:14:44]

sphery:

(seems Star Trek had it all figured out :)

[21:14:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

idle hands...

[21:14:49]

kormoc:

sphery, phasers to disintegrate

[21:14:53]

sphery:

heh

[21:14:59]

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[21:15:00]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, not my concern

[21:15:08]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the post-commit hook is actually something implemented by subversion, not trac

[21:15:23]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, we run a hook written by trac

[21:15:34]

Captain_Murdoch:

kormoc, it's the ... that's the concern, not the idle part.

[21:15:35]

kormoc:

or rather, subversion runs the hook that was coded by the trac team

[21:15:40]

sphery:

yeah, they used to have one in contrib

[21:15:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

anyway, /me has done enough egging. time to go home.

[21:15:57]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, still doesn't change things, they'll still go start trouble if they have a crap job or not

[21:16:02]

** kormoc waves **

[21:16:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

:)

[21:16:08]

sphery:

wagnerrp: last-shipped-version: http://trac.edgewall.org/browser/trunk/contri . . . ook?rev=8427

[21:16:22]

wagnerrp:

sphery: ah yes... see it now

[21:16:26]

sphery:

don't know what ours is like, but perhaps someone should give you a key to that room of the castle :)

[21:16:29]

wagnerrp:

/usr/local/bin/trac-post-commit-hook

[21:16:34]

kormoc:

our current one in svn.mythtv.org:/usr/local/bin/trac-post-commit-hook iirc

[21:16:52]

wagnerrp:

seems root is the only one with write rights

[21:16:55]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, and the script that runs it is in /var/svn/something/hooks

[21:17:16]

wagnerrp:

yeah, /var/lib/svn/hooks/post-commit

[21:17:23]

wagnerrp:

owned by stuart m

[21:17:26]

kormoc:

ahh, that'd be it

[21:17:29]

sphery:

this "one dev per language" thing could work... We'd only need a few devs. Python, C++ (and maybe a separate C dev), XML... So, maybe 4 devs total?

[21:17:49]

sphery:

or maybe wagnerrp is just so good that he makes it /seem/ to work for the python code

[21:18:09]

sphery:

oh, and Perl--but that guy has to rewrite the bindings :)

[21:18:17]

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[21:18:34]

** kormoc yawns **

[21:18:56]

wagnerrp:

sphery: and those php bindings people keep talking about

[21:19:04]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I like your fixes :)

[21:19:18]

kormoc:

Captain_Murdoch, another thought, rather then pay farmers not to grow things, buy it for the same price and use it to feed the starving masses....

[21:19:38]

sphery:

wagnerrp: oh, yeah, I forgot about PHP... So, yeah, I guess we're doing PHP and Python with the one dev per language approach

[21:20:01]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: use that corn for something sensible, other than syrup and ethanol?

[21:20:04]

sphery:

kormoc: or buy it and turn it into ethanol ;)

[21:20:23]

kormoc:

something! Anything!

[21:20:35]

sphery:

I vote for rocket fuel.

[21:20:36]

kormoc:

paying people not to make product we can use is absurd!

[21:20:50]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you would be better off burning corn directly for heating rather than turning it into ethanol

[21:21:05]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, can't take ya to mars as cord

[21:21:07]

kormoc:

*corn

[21:21:28]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: cant do it on ethanol either

[21:21:29]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, unfortunately, people don't think about why ethanol was used in the '70s and how things have changed since

[21:21:45]

wagnerrp:

specific impulse is too low

[21:21:53]

sphery:

the major difference being a shortage of oil and a surplus of corn--neither of which exists today

[21:22:23]

sphery:

but kormoc said "anything"... If we can't do rocket fuel, then maybe computer chips.

[21:22:37]

sphery:

computer "corn" chips :)

[21:22:45]

kormoc:

ooh!

[21:22:50]

kormoc:

they burn oh so well too

[21:22:55]

wagnerrp:

can you make graphite semiconductors?

[21:23:09]

kormoc:

(pro tip, bring corn chips with you when you go camping to use to start your fires)

[21:23:15]

sphery:

heh, it is difficult to make the silicon chips burn--though I've managed to do it a couple of times when I wasn't trying

[21:23:45]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, might require a few days in atomic weight watchers

[21:23:46]

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[21:23:56]

kisak:

iamlindoro: ping?

[21:24:08]

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[21:24:44]

wagnerrp:

kisak: what do you need?

[21:25:31]

kisak:

oh, I had a question about mpeg2fixup.sh which is in iamlindoro's wiki page

[21:25:56]

kisak:

mainly if there are known alternatives to "xport"

[21:26:52]

wagnerrp:

looks like you can use anything that can demux mpeg2ts files

[21:29:23]

kisak:

if only I knew how to hunt that kind of feature down in a timely manner

[21:30:43]

wagnerrp:

trac logins all match to subversion accounts, right?

[21:30:51]

kormoc:

afaik, yes

[21:31:23]

kormoc:

kisak, if only there was a engine that allowed one to search the web for keywords

[21:32:48]

kisak:

kormoc: if only... clearly I was hoping to improve my signal to noise ratio

[21:33:22]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: they are intended to, yes

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[21:44:50]

Beirdo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994072

[21:44:53]

Beirdo:

muhahahaha

[21:44:57]

Beirdo:

I CAN do it

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[21:45:32]

kisak:

I have a couple pair of those lying around

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[21:47:16]

Beirdo:

if I use a small enough case that only has 1 3.5" bay, I can still run mirrored 2.5" :)

[21:47:19]

Beirdo:

yay

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[21:57:09]

high-rez:

So uhm, thoughts on the crystal hd? :)

[21:57:59]

Beirdo:

yup

[21:58:17]

iamlindoro:

In the context of myth, or in general?

[21:58:35]

iamlindoro:

In a myth context, it is very, very, very lightly tested and last I heard still had some major bugs

[21:58:54]

Beirdo:

and has potential of being very cool

[21:59:34]

high-rez:

I think it could be interesting. The old school appletv's are super cheap now

[21:59:44]

high-rez:

Combined with crystal hd's they could be great FEs, no?

[21:59:56]

Beirdo:

I dunno.

[22:00:02]

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[22:00:02]

Beirdo:

ask a fanboi

[22:00:03]

Beirdo:

heh

[22:00:13]

high-rez:

ask a fanboi ?

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[22:00:22]

kormoc:

high-rez, from previous reports, the UI response is very slow as a FE

[22:00:23]

Beirdo:

assuming the apple side is useful, it could work well, I guess

[22:00:23]

high-rez:

a fanboi of what? crystal hd?

[22:00:31]

Beirdo:

once the bugs are worked out

[22:00:44]

Beirdo:

of apple, duh

[22:00:54]

high-rez:

I wasn't intending on running OSX ;)

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[22:01:25]

Beirdo:

but I kinda want crystal hd for playing... got nothing to plug it into though

[22:02:02]

high-rez:

I could fit one in my ionitx or my HP Mini 311 – both of which do VDPAU

[22:02:21]

kormoc:

high-rez, it's slower in linux then in OS X

[22:02:41]

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[22:03:01]

high-rez:

Interesting

[22:03:10]

Beirdo:

gotta go...

[22:03:17]

high-rez:

I imagine apple doesn't have crystal hd support in their video accel api's though?

[22:03:22]

Beirdo:

be back for bug squashing in a while

[22:03:41]

reacocard:

how can I make mythfrontend NOT touch my xserver display mdoe on startup? it gets the refresh rate wrong most of the time.

[22:03:42]

kormoc:

high-rez, I'm talking UI

[22:03:56]

kormoc:

reacocard, we don't by default?

[22:04:12]

reacocard:

kormoc: well i didn't ever tell it to do it and it's doing it :/

[22:04:44]

high-rez:

i didn't even know its possible for an application to muck with it

[22:04:49]

kormoc:

reacocard, what exactly is it doing?

[22:05:12]

kormoc:

high-rez, we support custom modes for ui and playback

[22:05:27]

kormoc:

although, they shouldn't touch refresh rates unless X is configured to do so for that mode

[22:05:32]

reacocard:

kormoc: when i start it, the screen flickers jsut like it does when i set the mode via xrandr, then it settles back on the same resolution but sometimes is really flickery, like ti does if you pick the wrong refresh rate

[22:05:56]

kormoc:

reacocard, disable/reset the UI mode settings?

[22:06:23]

reacocard:

where are those? I don't recall ever touching that

[22:06:27]

high-rez:

kormoc: Does any of that matter if you're using dvi/hdmi? I'd assume not?

[22:06:42]

kormoc:

high-rez, if you tell it to, it could

[22:06:49]

kormoc:

reacocard, somewhere in the frontend settings

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[22:09:26]

reacocard:

well now i cant get it to do it anymore, but that doesn't mean much with how erratic the issue is :/

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[22:17:31]

kisak:

iamlindoro: ping?

[22:19:49]

kisak:

iamlindoro: 1) do you use mpeg2fixup? 2) Does it handle HD content properly? / Does it handle surround sound streams properly?

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wagnerrp:

Beirdo: only two drives?

[23:00:02]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816119006

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