Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, August 20th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:07]

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[00:01:23]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: your HDPVR recordings have AAC?

[00:01:38]

Beirdo:

yes

[00:01:59]

** Beirdo gives Dell the finger **

[00:02:11]

abqjp:

The HD-PVR does AAC by default. You have to tell it you want AC3 instead (if you want to).

[00:02:17]

Beirdo:

the *cheap* multicore boxes are all ATI video

[00:02:17]

wagnerrp:

is that what it encodes analog to?

[00:02:24]

wagnerrp:

if youre not doing passthrough digital

[00:02:29]

Beirdo:

I tried to tell it AC3, it still did AAC

[00:02:49]

Beirdo:

but maybe I told it wrong, and I don't care, AAC works great

[00:03:01]

abqjp:

wagnerrp: You have the choice of AAC or AC3 for analog, I believe. Personally, I always use AC3 pass-through.

[00:03:21]

abqjp:

Beirdo: so, you use analog audio?

[00:03:45]

Beirdo:

yes

[00:04:22]

abqjp:

Ah. In that case it doesn't really matter. Quality should be about the same. Only difference is that AC3 is easier to decode.

[00:04:24]

Beirdo:

I have yet to get the fiber required to do otherwise, and it's working anyways, so I don't feel rushed

[00:04:55]

abqjp:

I like the 5.1 surround, so I use the S/PDIF.

[00:05:13]

Beirdo:

I have 5.1 surround... just up-converted :)

[00:05:20]

Beirdo:

but yeah, I've been thinking of it

[00:05:31]

Beirdo:

just not in a huge rush :)

[00:05:58]

abqjp:

Works well with Directv STBs. I guess Dish STBs have some sort of time-code issue with their S/PDIF output.

[00:06:08]

Beirdo:

yeah, I'm on DirecTV

[00:06:18]

Beirdo:

just need to get the fiber, really

[00:06:27]

abqjp:

monoprice!

[00:06:46]

Beirdo:

yeah, but every time I go to order from them, I end up with a big pile'o wires

[00:06:49]

Beirdo:

hehe

[00:06:54]

Beirdo:

so I put it off :)

[00:07:09]

kormoc:

amazon

[00:07:11]

kormoc:

free shipping

[00:07:17]

Beirdo:

yeah, I know :0

[00:07:17]

wagnerrp:

i need a better soldering iron

[00:07:22]

wagnerrp:

mine is too low power

[00:07:29]

abqjp:

Monoprice's shipping price is reasonable.

[00:07:32]

Beirdo:

Amazon is my friend

[00:07:40]

abqjp:

Beirdo: lives in WA, so he would have to pay tax from Amazon.

[00:07:40]

wagnerrp:

shipping price?

[00:07:45]

wagnerrp:

they /mail/ it to you

[00:07:48]

Beirdo:

kormoc made me an addict

[00:08:11]

Beirdo:

tax is still less than shipping

[00:08:15]

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[00:08:42]

wagnerrp:

i tried soldering a connector onto some (thick gage) speaker wire

[00:09:01]

wagnerrp:

could never get the solder to melt, as the copper wire was transferring the heat away too fast

[00:09:07]

Beirdo:

heheh

[00:09:09]

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[00:09:11]

Beirdo:

that sucks

[00:09:22]

Beirdo:

oooh, I need a new soldering iron too.

[00:09:27]

Beirdo:

I want my old butane one

[00:09:38]

abqjp:

That is why a lot of companies just crimp the connector on.

[00:09:58]

Beirdo:

http://www.amazon.com/WPA2-Professional-Self- . . . /B000ICEMYU/

[00:10:09]

wagnerrp:

well this is thick speaker wire into a RCA connector

[00:10:09]

Beirdo:

all these years later... like 10. same price

[00:10:35]

wagnerrp:

my old amp had the bare wire spring connectors for the sub

[00:10:40]

kormoc:

Self Igniting? that sounds... bad....

[00:10:48]

wagnerrp:

so the sub came with some very thick wire

[00:10:56]

wagnerrp:

the new amp uses an RCA connector for the sub

[00:11:17]

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[00:11:26]

Beirdo:

nice to know that I can get a replacement fast :)

[00:11:27]

wagnerrp:

so either way, i have to solder it onto the connector directly, or solder it to another wire to splice it together

[00:11:38]

Beirdo:

I always hand-lit mine with a lighter

[00:11:50]

Beirdo:

it has a piezo lighter in it IIRC

[00:12:09]

Beirdo:

makes a great heat gun too

[00:12:18]

wagnerrp:

has to have been at least 12 gage

[00:12:35]

abqjp:

wagnerrp: that is odd. RCA is very rarely used for speaker-level signals. RCA is typically only used for inter-connects.

[00:12:58]

ozatomic:

Hey guys, i can get closed captions working in myth and they display on perfect. Am i able to get teh closed captions to save out to a file?

[00:13:00]

wagnerrp:

abqjp: it is a line-level connection, to a powered sub

[00:13:04]

Beirdo:

PyroPen for a Pyro

[00:13:05]

Beirdo:

:)

[00:13:19]

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[00:13:27]

sphery:

ozatomic: the captions are in the stream--depending on where you live, they're in different formats

[00:13:41]

sphery:

ozatomic: if you're lucky, they're text-based and you can save them to a different file

[00:13:52]

abqjp:

wagnerrp: okay, that make sense. Although I don't know why the gauge needs to be that big. Might be easier for you to just get a good quality, pre-made inter-connect cable.

[00:13:52]

sphery:

you'd just need a parser to do so

[00:14:11]

wagnerrp:

abqjp: because its prewired through the walls

[00:14:13]

sphery:

if not, they're bitmaps and would require full optical-character-recognition to convert to text

[00:14:16]

wagnerrp:

of a motorhome

[00:14:18]

ozatomic:

well myth is parsing them?

[00:14:21]

abqjp:

wagnerrp: that is a good reason.

[00:14:23]

wagnerrp:

so i dont have the option to re-run them

[00:15:23]

sphery:

ozatomic: myth is displaying them--displaying for a user doesn't require OCR (the user does that in his mind :)

[00:16:11]

sphery:

ozatomic: but basically, for the poor-man's solution, if it's simple EIA-608 (and maybe EIA-708) type captions, you can just enable -v important,general,vbi and play back the show and you'll see all the caption text in the mythfrontend logs

[00:16:39]

ozatomic:

what about if i wanted to use the dvbstream

[00:16:41]

sphery:

depending on what you're trying to do, though, it may make sense to find a program meant to transcribe captions from video

[00:16:52]

** Beirdo scratches his head. **

[00:17:04]

sphery:

what do you mean use the dvbstream?

[00:17:21]

ozatomic:

well use teh stream from teh /dev/dvb/adabter0/frontend0

[00:17:23]

Beirdo:

250G drive. $38.00. 160G drive. $39.00

[00:17:30]

Beirdo:

ummm.

[00:18:05]

ozatomic:

The idea what i am tring to do is get the captions from news programs for client

[00:19:07]

wagnerrp:

this is your own personal mythtv system that youre just trying to pull the captions out of?

[00:19:14]

dustybin:

mythtv kicks ass, you guys might hate me, but least im a loyal mythtv user

[00:19:16]

wagnerrp:

or your developing some sort of commercial solution?

[00:19:24]

sphery:

ozatomic: well, for that, you'd probably want a program designed to do that... MythTV isn't that program. The dvb-tools might include something to help, but you may have to just use dvb-snoop and parse it yourself

[00:19:41]

sphery:

or just get a tool developed by the industry for that purpose

[00:19:45]

Beirdo:

dustybin: how many times do you need to be reminded about yer language?

[00:20:00]

dustybin:

eeek sorry i have been drinking wine

[00:20:08]

wagnerrp:

if you want something commercial, you may consider one of the snapstream units... http://www.snapstream.com/enterprise/

[00:20:10]

dustybin:

got tomorrow off work

[00:20:15]

ozatomic:

do you know of any tools for that purpose? i tried ccextractor but it says 0 frames found :S

[00:20:47]

ozatomic:

and i know mythtv is not that tool but i know that myth is getting the captions so i thought it may have some insight into achiving what i was lookign for

[00:21:00]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: is this for analog or digital?

[00:21:19]

sphery:

he mentioned dvb

[00:21:20]

devinheitmueller:

Because if it's analog you may wish to look at "zvbi-ntsc-cc", which gathers the captions and prints them to stdout.

[00:21:27]

dustybin:

ever since i first got mythtv working back in .19, i have been using it constantly, it serves me everyday

[00:21:34]

sphery:

I'm guessing it's non-us DVB subtitles, but he hasn't said

[00:22:06]

sphery:

if it is, there's a good chance it's bitmapped subs

[00:22:14]

ozatomic:

devinheitmueller: digital

[00:22:15]

dustybin:

there are too many devs in this channels!! what about normal users like me

[00:22:34]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: Is it really DVB, or are you talking about ATSC/ClearQAM?

[00:22:35]

ozatomic:

its australian

[00:22:37]

devinheitmueller:

ok

[00:22:43]

Beirdo:

dustybin: you're normal? :)

[00:23:13]

dustybin:

Beirdo: well, im a normal user in the mythtv-user channel

[00:23:23]

ozatomic:

sphery: if its bitmap subs then thats bad?

[00:23:43]

** Beirdo gives in... and orders a drive for the fit-pc. **

[00:23:53]

Beirdo:

amazon++

[00:23:54]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: ZVBI can parse DVB captions too, although I've never used the feature.

[00:23:55]

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[00:24:05]

dustybin:

Beirdo: do you have a beard like Richard Stallman, hence your nick?

[00:24:11]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Text_capture#zvbi

[00:24:28]

Beirdo:

yes and no

[00:24:32]

Beirdo:

I have a beard

[00:24:33]

dustybin:

haha :D

[00:24:37]

Beirdo:

but not nearly like him

[00:24:39]

dustybin:

sandles?

[00:25:01]

Beirdo:

not at the moment

[00:25:14]

ozatomic:

devinheitmueller: Thanks will check that out.

[00:25:14]

dustybin:

i found a picture of linus torvalds wearing sandles

[00:25:20]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: np.

[00:25:37]

Beirdo:

jpabq-: http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Toslink-Am . . . /B001TH7GSW/

[00:25:42]

Beirdo:

that do the trick?

[00:25:48]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: just be forewarned, zvbi isn't a particularly reliable application, so don't be surprised if it crashes.

[00:26:07]

dustybin:

my logic is, im still learning new stuff, once i get bored of learning new stuff and i want to contribute, mythtv will be my first choice

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v iamlindoro

[00:26:38]

sphery:

ozatomic: it may be text-based captions in Australia--I don't know

[00:26:42]

abqjp:

Beirdo: yup, that should work fine.

[00:27:20]

dustybin:

sphery: i am going to ban you, you are too much of a dev :P

[00:27:43]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[00:27:46]

sphery:

heh

[00:27:47]

iamlindoro:

oh really?

[00:27:52]

dustybin:

eeeek

[00:27:57]

** dustybin suddenly goes quiet **

[00:28:03]

iamlindoro:

That would be best

[00:28:07]

devinheitmueller:

;-)

[00:28:39]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

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[00:32:52]

ozatomic:

devinheitmueller: yeah that didn't work

[00:33:07]

devinheitmueller:

Getting the command line right is usually the challenge.

[00:33:53]

ozatomic:

zvbi-atsc-cc -a 0 "ABC News 24" -x -c -v -p

[00:34:07]

ozatomic:

lots of TS Error

[00:34:12]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: zvbi-atsc-cc almost certainly won't work on a DVB stream.

[00:34:18]

dustybin:

what makes you guys focus on a project? why mythtv?

[00:34:21]

devinheitmueller:

That tool is for US based ATSC broadcasts.

[00:34:31]

devinheitmueller:

dustybin: fame and fortune.

[00:34:39]

devinheitmueller:

Oh wait, I don't work on MythTV. Nevermind.

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[00:35:07]

ozatomic:

devinheitmueller: Well 'zvbi-ntsc-cc' wont work becasue au is pal

[00:35:10]

dustybin:

well it goes with every project, open-source is too big to focus on lots of projects

[00:35:39]

devinheitmueller:

ozatomic: Neither of those are appropriate. When talking about digital, "NTSC" and "PAL" do not apply.

[00:35:41]

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[00:35:44]

devinheitmueller:

Read the zvbi documentation.

[00:35:47]

iamlindoro:

devinheitmueller, That explains the lack of fame and fortune ;)

[00:35:59]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: hey hey hey, I do alright.

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dustybin:

if you want to learn something 100%, you need to focus, i understand that, but im still checking out whats out there

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[00:42:10]

** dustybin trys to think of things hes not happy with with mythtv **

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[00:42:55]

dustybin:

strip away the plug-ins, mythtv works perfectly, no problems at all, 100% stable

[00:43:20]

dustybin:

mythvideo does everything i want it to, 100% stable

[00:43:40]

dustybin:

mythmusic does everything i want it to, maybe the interface could be improved slightly

[00:44:08]

dustybin:

and thats it.. yes i will submit patches :P

[00:44:20]

dustybin:

(when i learn C and Python)

[00:46:50]

** dustybin goes back into silent mode **

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[01:07:48]

rwlove:

I'm trying to get a backtrace

[01:07:56]

rwlove:

to debug a segfaulting mythbackend

[01:08:03]

rwlove:

I installed the debug modules

[01:08:15]

rwlove:

and setup apport "enable=1"

[01:08:33]

rwlove:

and did a 'start apport' (as root)

[01:08:39]

rwlove:

and mythbackend is crashing

[01:08:50]

rwlove:

but I'm not sure where I should be collecting the dump from

[01:08:55]

rwlove:

can anyone assist?

[01:09:32]

sphery:

rwlove: might find more knowledgeable people in #mythbuntu

[01:09:46]

sphery:

but if you can find the backtrace, let me know and I'll take a look at it

[01:09:49]

wagnerrp:

stupid harmony...

[01:09:55]

wagnerrp:

wont let me have multiple profiles

[01:09:57]

rwlove:

thanks sphery...

[01:10:03]

wagnerrp:

wont let me rename an account

[01:10:09]

wagnerrp:

wont let me import a profile from the remote

[01:10:11]

devinheitmueller:

rwlove: look at the bright side, your kernel isn't panicking.

[01:10:14]

devinheitmueller:

;-)

[01:10:21]

rwlove:

do you know how I can tell if I'm really running the debug mythtv packages?

[01:10:34]

rwlove:

I installed them with apt and rebooted

[01:10:46]

sphery:

rwlove: All I know is that there's something about mythbuntu on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging

[01:10:53]

rwlove:

but I'm not sure how to verify I'm really running debug stuff

[01:11:29]

rwlove:

sphery, thanks again... I was reading just below there

[01:11:30]

sphery:

generally, though, I'm pretty sure the debug packages just contain the debug information--you use the same binary executables/libraries

[01:11:35]

devinheitmueller:

rwlove: just run gdb against mythfrontend and see if it complains about lack of symbols.

[01:11:55]

rwlove:

devinheitmueller, frontend isn't a problem

[01:12:00]

rwlove:

it's the backend that crashes

[01:12:08]

devinheitmueller:

rwlove: It doesn't matter. It will tell you whether you have the debug info installed.

[01:12:11]

sphery:

and, yeah, you should be able to just follow the gdb instructions in section 22.2 and do things "manually"

[01:12:24]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#ss22.2

[01:12:35]

devinheitmueller:

crap. Another kernel oops. bbiab.

[01:12:36]

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[01:12:38]

sphery:

don't use the "-v record,channel,siparser" in the logs

[01:12:56]

sphery:

otherwise, follow instructions from "At this point..."

[01:13:36]

sphery:

or find a *buntu user who knows apport to help figure out their "easier" approach :)

[01:13:51]

sphery:

s/in the logs/in the args/

[01:14:18]

sphery:

i.e. change the set args line to: set args -l myth.log

[01:14:49]

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[01:14:53]

sphery:

and no need for the while loop thing

[01:15:04]

sphery:

you only want to run gdb enough to get one backtrace

[01:15:40]

rwlove:

sphery, are you suggesting to skip the source compilation part?

[01:15:50]

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[01:15:57]

rwlove:

because mythbuntu should have already installed the dbg versions?

[01:15:57]

sphery:

yeah, since you installed the debug packages, you already have a debug build

[01:16:03]

rwlove:

gotcha

[01:16:10]

sphery:

so you just need to run mythbackend under gdb

[01:16:56]

rwlove:

gdbcommands as root user or mythtv user?

[01:17:27]

sphery:

doesn't really matter where it is, but it muse be readable by the user that runs gdb to run mythbackend

[01:17:38]

sphery:

and that should be the same user that normally runs mythbackend on your system

[01:17:43]

sphery:

so likely mythtv

[01:17:50]

rwlove:

ok... I am slightly unsure who that user is

[01:18:37]

sphery:

I /think/ mythbuntu uses the mythtv user

[01:18:51]

rwlove:

gotcha

[01:19:16]

Beirdo:

OK, how nice

[01:19:32]

Beirdo:

the box for the coffee table was at my door.

[01:19:54]

Beirdo:

kinda unexpected, but that will do

[01:20:22]

sphery:

nice

[01:20:25]

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[01:20:28]

sphery:

no need to wait 'til tomorrow

[01:20:48]

Beirdo:

and I bought a power bar at Office Depot to put in the bedroom

[01:20:58]

Beirdo:

I'm running outta good excuses :)

[01:21:20]

Beirdo:

watching Weeds

[01:21:21]

dustybin:

my backend is HD ready, all i need now is storage

[01:21:28]

dustybin:

Hostname: server – OS: Linux 2.6.33.4/x86_64 – CPU: 4 x Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 (2933.911 MHz) – Processes: 278 – Uptime: 2d 7h 8m – Load Average: 0.00 – Memory Usage: 623.96MB/3702.39MB (16.85%) – Disk Usage: 379.97GB/1314.19GB (28.91%)

[01:21:45]

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[01:21:48]

Beirdo:

you have 1.3TB and you are complaining?

[01:21:59]

wagnerrp:

they make quad-core i3s?

[01:22:05]

Beirdo:

your disk usage is more than my free space

[01:22:13]

dustybin:

i want 3x 2TB seagate 5900.12 drives

[01:22:40]

dustybin:

that reading is scatty

[01:22:47]

dustybin:

probably across different drives

[01:23:38]

dustybin:

in slackware you can edit and create your own package with what version of source code you choose

[01:24:10]

dustybin:

ideal for mythtv

[01:24:28]

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[01:25:06]

Beirdo:

pfft

[01:25:24]

dustybin:

people seem to worry about deps with slackware, just do a full install, you never need to worry

[01:26:22]

dustybin:

i did a full slackware install, installed mythtv after with no extra deps required

[01:27:08]

dustybin:

sure the odd app might require a obscure library, but that is more than likely covered in a slackbuild

[01:27:12]

rwlove:

sphery, I can't seem to reproduce the problem with gdb

[01:27:50]

rwlove:

the frontend is slower, because it's trying to interact with the debug backend

[01:28:04]

rwlove:

but the backend has now been recording for 3+ minutes

[01:28:10]

rwlove:

without segfault

[01:28:17]

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[01:28:25]

rwlove:

previously mythbackend was segfaulting every minute

[01:28:51]

rwlove:

gdb just continues to run happily and notify me when threads are created and when they exit

[01:29:03]

sphery:

:(

[01:29:10]

sphery:

that makes debugging hard

[01:30:07]

rwlove:

it proves to me that it's not a HW problem though

[01:30:16]

rwlove:

or, it's less likely

[01:30:44]

rwlove:

I guess some intermittent HW problem could only trigger segfaults with different timing

[01:31:26]

rwlove:

I guess I can try running the debug modules without gdb

[01:31:35]

Pluribus:

WOOT!, It looks like the FFMPEG resync will fix my needing libfaad. Still testing but so far so good.

[01:32:41]

sphery:

rwlove: when you get a chance to shut down the backend, do so and exit gdb, then try running mythbackend without gdb in an environment configured to dump a core file on segfault

[01:33:07]

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[01:33:13]

sphery:

rwlove: then use the core file instructions at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging#Using_core_files to grab the backtrace

[01:33:21]

rwlove:

sphery, I'm not sure how to generate the core

[01:33:28]

sphery:

see that section

[01:33:31]

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[01:34:05]

rwlove:

sphery, btw: rebooted, service started and segfaults continue

[01:34:46]

sphery:

yeah, sounds like instrumenting the binary changes timing enough to prevent the crash, so running without gdb and grabbing a core dump is likely the best approach

[01:34:53]

dustybin:

rwlove: you dont have a setup like 'clever' by any chance..

[01:34:59]

sphery:

heh

[01:37:35]

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[01:37:48]

rwlove:

sphery, core dumps enabled... backend segfaulting... no coredumps generated

[01:38:12]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_uses_pid

[01:38:12]

rwlove:

1

[01:38:12]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# cat /proc/sys/kernel/core_pattern

[01:38:12]

rwlove:

/tmp/core.%t.%u.%p.%e

[01:38:22]

rwlove:

Aug 19 18:38:08 thecore kernel: [ 355.622583] mythbackend[2492]: segfault at 7f29361fdff8 ip 00007f294ae66ee2 sp 00007f29361fdfb0 error 6 in libc-2.11.1.so[7f294adec000+17a000]

[01:38:44]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# ls /tmp/core*

[01:38:44]

rwlove:

ls: cannot access /tmp/core*: No such file or directory

[01:38:46]

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[01:39:33]

dustybin:

rwlove: download a new distro iso. re-install fresh. install mythtv and follow the guidelines, sorted

[01:39:54]

rwlove:

dustybin, that's a bit drastic

[01:40:06]

dustybin:

rwlove: your setup is drastic

[01:40:10]

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[01:40:11]

rwlove:

I've been running this OS for over 6months without a problem

[01:40:16]

Beirdo:

so, seems Alanis Morissette is on Weeds.

[01:40:32]

Beirdo:

Miss so much being away for a few seasons

[01:40:45]

sphery:

rwlove: you did the: ulimit -c unlimited

[01:40:59]

rwlove:

sphery, yes... is there something I can cat to confirm

[01:41:12]

wagnerrp:

seems im out of tuners

[01:41:13]

sphery:

type: ulimit

[01:41:23]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: out?!!

[01:41:24]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# ulimit

[01:41:24]

rwlove:

unlimited

[01:41:32]

Beirdo:

want some of mine for a moment?

[01:41:33]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:41:34]

wagnerrp:

free tuners

[01:41:37]

sphery:

ok, something else is preventing the dump...

[01:41:50]

rwlove:

sphery, yeah, I'm confused too

[01:41:59]

wagnerrp:

luckily, its all cable stuff, which is shown half a dozen times in a week

[01:42:21]

rwlove:

sphery, I'm not sure still whether I'm actually running the debug packages or not

[01:42:25]

Pluribus:

Actually, he wants "ulimit -c"

[01:42:38]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# ulimit -c

[01:42:39]

rwlove:

0

[01:42:55]

Pluribus:

0 == the size of allowed core files.

[01:43:17]

rwlove:

yikes!

[01:43:18]

** dustybin wonders what kind of mess people cause to their systems **

[01:43:36]

Beirdo:

ulimit -c 1000000

[01:43:41]

Beirdo:

is usually what I do

[01:43:41]

rwlove:

dustybin, I've been running mythtv and it's been stable for years

[01:43:49]

Beirdo:

exceedingly large core files :)

[01:43:52]

rwlove:

I went on vacation, came back and it was borked!

[01:43:53]

sphery:

maybe some /etc/security/limits.* stuff?

[01:44:27]

dustybin:

rwlove: are you running compiz at the same time?...

[01:44:38]

rwlove:

dustybin, no

[01:44:52]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# ulimit -c

[01:44:52]

rwlove:

unlimited

[01:44:54]

dustybin:

what else you running

[01:45:41]

rwlove:

shouldn't be much really

[01:45:46]

sphery:

rwlove: grep -R core /etc/security/limits.*

[01:45:51]

rwlove:

the backend is just a backend to two frontends

[01:46:02]

dustybin:

rwlove: what distro

[01:46:21]

rwlove:

root@thecore:~# grep -R core /etc/security/limits.*

[01:46:21]

rwlove:

/etc/security/limits.conf:# – core – limits the core file size (KB)

[01:46:21]

rwlove:

/etc/security/limits.conf:#* soft core 0

[01:46:21]

rwlove:

/etc/security/limits.conf:#root hard core 100000

[01:46:46]

rwlove:

dustybin, mythbuntu karmic

[01:47:34]

rwlove:

system has been rocksolid

[01:47:41]

rwlove:

was on vacation for two weeks

[01:47:54]

dustybin:

rwlove: does that system run mythtv only

[01:48:08]

rwlove:

about 10 days in I tried to ssh into the box (through my firewall system) and it was unresponsive

[01:48:13]

rwlove:

dustybin, yes

[01:48:24]

rwlove:

dustybin, top shows nothing interesting

[01:48:25]

dustybin:

rwlove: backup the db, and reintall from scratch

[01:48:27]

dustybin:

job doe

[01:48:36]

rwlove:

mythbackend is at 91%cpu

[01:48:50]

rwlove:

when I got home and checked the system

[01:48:56]

rwlove:

it was unresponsive, so I rebooted

[01:49:45]

dustybin:

you could spend hours / days trying to get this working, so why not reinstall

[01:51:04]

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[01:51:30]

dustybin:

but then again, you wont learn much from doing that..

[01:52:26]

sphery:

though a backtrace would be useful in the event he's found a bug

[01:52:28]

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[01:52:31]

sphery:

then we could fix it for everyone :)

[01:52:35]

rwlove_:

sorry

[01:52:46]

rwlove_:

hope I didn't miss any advice

[01:52:50]

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[01:53:04]

sphery:

rwlove_: there may be a hard limit that prevents non-root users from changing the core limit, so try: sudo ulimit -c unlimited

[01:53:22]

sphery:

then ulimit -c

[01:53:24]

rwlove_:

sphery, I've been acting as root the whole time

[01:53:28]

sphery:

hmmm

[01:53:33]

rwlove_:

sphery, I am going to reboot and try again

[01:53:41]

sphery:

so are you running mythbackend as root?

[01:53:49]

sphery:

because the ulimit only applies to the current shell

[01:54:31]

rwlove_:

so, I was doing the ulimit/core stuff in one ssh session

[01:54:43]

rwlove_:

but it was the system mythtv-backend service that was running the backend

[01:54:47]

rwlove_:

not in the same shell

[01:54:59]

rwlove_:

should I stop the service and launch the backend myself after setting ulimit

[01:55:11]

dustybin:

i read some place that mythtv-setup will in the future be moved to mythweb?

[01:55:13]

sphery:

right, you need to run the mythbackend in an environment where the core limits were set to something > 0

[01:55:22]

rwlove_:

gotcha

[01:55:31]

sphery:

so you could modify the start script (? maybe--I don't know upstart) or just run mythbackend directly in the terminal

[01:55:48]

sphery:

i.e. do: sudo -u mythtv -i

[01:55:52]

sphery:

mythbackend

[01:56:09]

dustybin:

what is myth-welcome ?

[01:56:12]

sphery:

oh, but run the ulimit in there somewhere: ulimit -c unlimited && mythbackend

[01:56:36]

rwlove_:

user mythtv does not have permission to modify /proc/sys/kernel/core_uses_pid

[01:56:58]

rwlove_:

let's try as root

[01:57:15]

sphery:

dustybin: it's a program that runs to allow you to start mythfrontend easily with a remote, but when running, it doesn't "mark" your system as active, so users who want their systems to shut down automatically run it (running frontends say that someone is using the mythtv system)

[01:57:36]

sphery:

rwlove_: the /proc/sys stuff is global... only the ulimit needs to be applied to the current session

[01:57:41]

rwlove_:

got it

[01:57:57]

rwlove_:

backend wouldn't start normally as root anyway,... couldn't connect to the db

[01:58:11]

dustybin:

sphery: hmm ok

[01:58:25]

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[01:58:30]

dustybin:

i like the idea of putting mythtv-setup in mythweb

[01:58:51]

sphery:

it wouldn't be mythweb

[01:58:58]

sphery:

it would just be web-based

[01:59:03]

dustybin:

aye ok, nice

[01:59:05]

sphery:

but without any need to configure mythweb

[01:59:29]

sphery:

getting mythweb running is often more challenging than mythtv-setup

[01:59:48]

sphery:

(ie.. you need properly installed/configure apache/php/php-mysqli/mythweb)

[02:00:14]

dustybin:

myhtv takes a bit of getting used to, but most of it involves learning linux before hand

[02:00:23]

dustybin:

if you are a linux master

[02:00:27]

dustybin:

mythtv isnt hard to setup

[02:00:33]

sphery:

yeah, we hope to make that easier, though

[02:00:43]

dustybin:

nope dont

[02:00:50]

dustybin:

its better this way :D

[02:01:02]

sphery:

heh

[02:01:15]

dustybin:

i learnt the hard way, and i want others to suffer :D

[02:01:31]

rwlove_:

sphery, running manually seems to work fine

[02:01:34]

dustybin:

let them get the full LIRC treatment :D

[02:01:42]

rwlove_:

it's just when the service is running it that I have a problem it seems

[02:01:44]

sphery:

rwlove_: you mean without segfault?

[02:01:50]

rwlove_:

sphery, yeah

[02:01:50]

sphery:

hmmm...

[02:01:59]

rwlove_:

I need to look at the args

[02:02:07]

sphery:

that will likely require someone with *buntu experience to debug

[02:02:28]

sphery:

you said segfaults happen once/min?

[02:02:38]

rwlove_:

yes

[02:02:43]

sphery:

it's not just terminating due to a broken environment, is it?

[02:02:51]

sphery:

i.e. not segfaulting, but exiting with error?

[02:02:59]

rwlove_:

messages and dmesg show segfault

[02:03:13]

rwlove_:

Aug 19 18:38:08 thecore kernel: [ 355.622583] mythbackend[2492]: segfault at 7f29361fdff8 ip 00007f294ae66ee2 sp 00007f29361fdfb0 error 6 in libc-2.11.1.so[7f294adec000+17a000]

[02:03:50]

sphery:

ok, then it's not just some bad environment lacking HOME or DB config info

[02:03:57]

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[02:04:22]

sphery:

I'll have to leave you to find some *buntu user to help... sorry

[02:05:39]

rwlove_:

ok, thanks sphery... I'm going to poke around a bit more.. I'm suspicious of the init scripts and args passed to the backend

[02:05:47]

rwlove_:

at least it's running when I

[02:05:51]

rwlove_:

su – mythtv

[02:05:58]

rwlove_:

and then run mythbackend

[02:06:00]

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[02:06:07]

sphery:

the mythbuntu scripts are using the --user mythtv argument

[02:06:14]

sphery:

it's possible there's an issue with that usage

[02:06:19]

rwlove_:

yes, they do

[02:06:32]

sphery:

you could: sudo -i

[02:06:42]

rwlove_:

hmm... don't know that one

[02:06:59]

sphery:

ulimit -c unlimited && export HOME=/home/mythtv && mythbackend --user mythtv

[02:07:07]

dustybin:

why do ubuntu change important system hierachy from one release to the next, doing stuff like that is beyond stupid

[02:07:27]

sphery:

basically, that becomes root, then you set an environment, then start mythbackend with --user

[02:07:50]

wagnerrp:

why does mythtv change important backend protocol from one release to the next?

[02:08:04]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: that is different

[02:08:20]

sphery:

I think wagnerrp is reading some mythtv forum again

[02:08:24]

wagnerrp:

i think its exactly the same, just at a much larger scale

[02:08:33]

dustybin:

if i was a linux sys admin and i studied ubuntu, i would have no chance

[02:08:43]

sphery:

oh, I see, that was based off your comment... nvm--I'm slow

[02:09:02]

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[02:09:42]

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[02:09:45]

wagnerrp:

WTF

[02:10:12]

wagnerrp:

im watching an episode of The Universe

[02:10:33]

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[02:10:41]

wagnerrp:

and theyre talking about some hypothetical spacecraft that can travel at 99.9% the speed of light, visiting Alpha Centauri B

[02:10:55]

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[02:11:09]

** dustybin wipes wagnerrp ubuntu karmic intstall **

[02:11:29]

wagnerrp:

theyre saying 'you might swing past Alpha Centauri A, and using gravity assist, slingshot to Alpha Centauri B'

[02:12:06]

wagnerrp:

if you are capable of traveling nearly the speed of light, why would you even consider using such 'quaint' tricks like gravity assist

[02:12:16]

sphery:

gotta stop somehow

[02:12:29]

dustybin:

O_o

[02:12:55]

sphery:

we don't know how long it took them to accelerate to 0.999c

[02:13:09]

wagnerrp:

theyre supposed to get to AC and back in 45 days

[02:13:23]

sphery:

at < the speed of light?

[02:13:31]

sphery:

doing 4.x light years?

[02:13:34]

sphery:

x2?

[02:13:52]

sphery:

ok, that is just plain crazy

[02:13:54]

wagnerrp:

dilated time, standstill time would be ~8.5yrs

[02:14:05]

sphery:

oh, yeah, that makes sense

[02:14:25]

sphery:

but that does mean very little time for the acceleration

[02:14:47]

sphery:

basically instant accel--so you'd think they could do instant decel

[02:14:59]

wagnerrp:

you'd think

[02:15:16]

wagnerrp:

2G acceleration to light speed is about half a year

[02:16:50]

[R]:

if i say "number of recordings to keep" = 5, that means it'll record 5, and then be done, i delete one, and it'll record a new one?

[02:16:52]

sphery:

yeah, but how many seconds less if you're just going to 99.9% :)

[02:17:00]

sphery:

[R]: right

[02:17:15]

sphery:

unless you also set delete old and record new

[02:17:33]

[R]:

didn't set that, sweet

[02:17:58]

[R]:

a million recordings are showing up in my upcoming list... i take it once the 5 have recorded... trhey will disapear?

[02:18:07]

sphery:

yep

[02:18:36]

sphery:

it shows what will record as of now, as soon as a new recording starts, it re-runs the scheduler, so things may change then

[02:18:52]

[R]:

group hug

[02:18:55]

** [R] hugs all the myth developers **

[02:19:14]

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[02:19:37]

[R]:

i really need to set a max on Cops

[02:19:40]

[R]:

i have like 300 eps i think

[02:20:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I've only seen one episode of The Universe (when traveling, in a hotel), and it seemed to me like a "Hollywood-ized" version of Nova--i.e. physics and reality take second seat to storytelling and amazement

[02:20:47]

sphery:

wow, that's a /lot/ of cops

[02:20:54]

[R]:

haha

[02:21:00]

[R]:

287 to be exact

[02:21:01]

sphery:

If I set a rule for it, I'd have a max episodes of 0

[02:21:03]

[R]:

i capped it at 300

[02:21:06]

[R]:

lol

[02:21:20]

[R]:

sphery: so make sure it never records? haha

[02:21:26]

sphery:

exactly

[02:21:27]

[R]:

to*

[02:21:32]

wagnerrp:

sphery: well Nova covers all aspects of science, The Universe focuses on space

[02:21:43]

wagnerrp:

and youre right, it does tend to dumb down and glamorize things

[02:21:54]

sphery:

true, but the Nova space ones tend to at least try to get the science right

[02:22:10]

sphery:

though they have been known to be off the mark sometimes :)

[02:22:12]

wagnerrp:

they get the science right, they just add a lot of 'wow' factor

[02:23:17]

sphery:

yeah, but add the wow through less-than-plausible hypotheticals

[02:23:26]

[R]:

can i not tell it to record everything called 'M*A*S*H' but then say 'except for movies'?

[02:23:36]

wagnerrp:

well, they miss a couple things here and there

[02:23:40]

sphery:

[R]: with a custom rule, yes

[02:23:52]

[R]:

bah... sounds too complicated, i'll just let it record the movie and be done iwth it

[02:23:54]

wagnerrp:

arent the names different?

[02:24:05]

sphery:

[R]: definitely the easiest

[02:24:05]

wagnerrp:

i thought the movie was M*A*S*H, while the series was MASH

[02:24:20]

[R]:

no, both M*A*S*H

[02:24:44]

kormoc:

[R], power recording could do it

[02:24:54]

kormoc:

but really, the movie is worth watching :P

[02:25:09]

wagnerrp:

yeah, just do a power rule were the show length is <1hr

[02:25:21]

wagnerrp:

or the easier way, just only record on Hallmark

[02:25:23]

[R]:

kormoc: i know, i like it

[02:25:25]

kormoc:

or where programid NOT LIKE 'mv%';

[02:25:32]

wagnerrp:

or the easiest way, just let it record that one time, delete it

[02:25:37]

wagnerrp:

and mythtv will never record it again

[02:25:44]

[R]:

wagnerrp: but then i'd miss it on every other channel

[02:25:51]

[R]:

wagnerrp: yeah, tahts probably what i'll do

[02:26:16]

wagnerrp:

not hallmark... who plays a couple episodes of mash every afternoon?

[02:26:19]

sphery:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/67556#67556

[02:27:38]

[R]:

wagnerrp: its on a bunch of my locals and tvland... but i actually dont get hallmark

[02:27:54]

wagnerrp:

maybe its tvland im thinking of

[02:28:18]

wagnerrp:

i know its on for two hours on some channel, early evening

[02:28:42]

wagnerrp:

ever seen last of the mohicans?

[02:29:40]

sphery:

with Daniel Day-Lewis?

[02:29:43]

sphery:

I liked that one

[02:29:52]

wagnerrp:

yeah, great movie

[02:29:59]

wagnerrp:

ever seen the one made in '60?

[02:30:09]

sphery:

I even went into it expecting to hate it and I loved it

[02:30:12]

[R]:

movies made back in the day generally suck

[02:30:13]

sphery:

never saw that one

[02:30:22]

[R]:

its a universal principle

[02:30:23]

wagnerrp:

its a-w-f-u-l

[02:30:35]

[R]:

like oceans 11 original vs oceans 11 with george clooney

[02:30:38]

sphery:

I have to say I'm generally a color-ist--if it's pre-color, I don't care to watch it

[02:30:50]

wagnerrp:

no, there was color

[02:31:07]

sphery:

oh, yeah, guess color was

[02:31:10]

sphery:

'50s

[02:31:15]

wagnerrp:

had the tv on while re-wiring the motor home this afternoon

[02:31:24]

wagnerrp:

that was the only channel that got good reception

[02:31:41]

sphery:

ok, maybe I should say, "pre-80s" aren't my style

[02:31:42]

wagnerrp:

and wasnt either crappy talk shows, or worse soaps

[02:32:03]

sphery:

and I have to really want to see it to watch 80s shows

[02:32:42]

kormoc:

there will never be a worthy reboot of blazing saddles

[02:32:42]

dustybin:

a lot of people here are so engrossed in mythtv that they dont hardly watch tv at all

[02:33:13]

[R]:

wagnerrp: no judge shows?

[02:33:30]

[R]:

kormoc: are tehy thinking about that?

[02:34:11]

kormoc:

[R], you said a general "old movies suck" and I gave an example pre 1980's that doesn't suck and couldn't be better

[02:34:30]

[R]:

kormoc: no... i said "generally" suck

[02:34:52]

kormoc:

meh

[02:35:10]

kormoc:

I liked the original ocean's 11, there's something to be said about the class of the ratpack

[02:35:23]

[R]:

wtf... that trash was horrid

[02:35:26]

[R]:

i coudln't even watch the whole thing

[02:36:33]

** dustybin blinks **

[02:37:54]

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[02:38:20]

dustybin:

totally offtopic, but this kicks ass http://i3.zekjur.net/

[02:38:31]

dustybin:

maybe it could be useful for running a frontend

[02:38:41]

dustybin:

without a load of stuff you dont need

[02:39:04]

dustybin:

whats the point in running gnome, if your box is just a frontend?

[02:39:04]

wagnerrp:

running a dedicated frontend?

[02:39:10]

[R]:

kormoc: although blazing saddles with 74...

[02:39:13]

[R]:

was*

[02:39:22]

wagnerrp:

if your box is just a frontend, whats the point of running anything?

[02:39:34]

dustybin:

well, you need some kind of window manager

[02:39:35]

wagnerrp:

you just need something minimal to manage focus and z-placemnt

[02:39:46]

dustybin:

yep like i3

[02:40:05]

wagnerrp:

which puts dozens of different windows managers in prime candidate area

[02:40:35]

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[02:40:52]

dustybin:

i3 kicks serious butt

[02:41:23]

** dustybin feels thankful iamlindoro isnt here **

[02:42:27]

dustybin:

do you really need a desktop like gnome / kde?

[02:43:10]

dustybin:

i3 can open a work space, and launch a app full screen

[02:44:33]

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[02:47:16]

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[02:52:23]

sphery:

now I know why you got a Core i3

[02:53:22]

dustybin:

i3 are best value for money

[02:53:29]

dustybin:

they beat amd stuff

[02:54:03]

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[02:54:04]

Beirdo:

sphery: any 4-way i3 out there?

[02:54:10]

[R]:

4way?

[02:54:12]

[R]:

that's what she said

[02:54:31]

Beirdo:

just put together my coffee table/trunk

[02:54:35]

sphery:

I don't know... dustybin's paste earlier showed i3 x 4

[02:54:37]

kormoc:

that's what she said no to much to his dismay

[02:54:49]

[R]:

lol

[02:54:56]

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[02:55:13]

Beirdo:

now I can put all the misc computer parts away. Yay!

[02:55:31]

dustybin:

this is my backend / asterisk / server beast

[02:55:34]

dustybin:

Hostname: server – OS: Linux 2.6.33.4/x86_64 – CPU: 4 x Intel(R) Core(TM) i3 (2933.911 MHz) – Processes: 277 – Uptime: 2d 8h 42m – Load Average: 0.01 – Memory Usage: 562.03MB/3702.39MB (15.18%) – Disk Usage: 383.27GB/1314.19GB (29.16%)

[02:55:35]

sphery:

I really don't know the difference between the various Core i? chips... All I know is that they're all odd.

[02:55:36]

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[02:55:51]

dustybin:

running slackware 13.1

[02:55:54]

Beirdo:

dustybin: is that one quad-core or two-dual or what?

[02:56:00]

dustybin:

dual core

[02:56:02]

dustybin:

ht

[02:56:05]

Beirdo:

oh

[02:56:06]

dustybin:

4mb cache

[02:56:09]

sphery:

ah, that makes sense

[02:56:13]

Beirdo:

so really 2-way

[02:56:14]

Beirdo:

K

[02:56:17]

dustybin:

yep

[02:56:32]

Beirdo:

kinda like my "4-way" Atom :)

[02:56:34]

sphery:

I forgot about SM^H^HHT

[02:56:49]

dustybin:

i am running centos + debian vms on it

[02:56:55]

dustybin:

using kvm / qemu

[02:57:10]

dustybin:

and still hardly no budge on the cpu usuage

[02:57:18]

Beirdo:

I want a 4-way or more box

[02:57:28]

Beirdo:

AMD X6 might be OK

[02:57:33]

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[02:57:49]

dustybin:

i researched amd + intel for ages, intel always worked out better value for money

[02:57:54]

sphery:

Beirdo: opteron 6xxx? :)

[02:58:06]

Beirdo:

sphery: no... AMD X6 :)

[02:58:15]

dustybin:

amd are a little behind intel

[02:58:17]

wagnerrp:

arent the 6k series magny-cours?

[02:58:30]

Beirdo:

I dunno.

[02:58:33]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: that depends on the application

[02:58:36]

Beirdo:

I haven't researched much yet

[02:58:58]

dustybin:

i boiled mobos down to intel board + gigabyte

[02:59:00]

Beirdo:

I just need a box with buttloads of CPU (and cores) for commflag/transcoding

[02:59:03]

sphery:

oh, I was thinking there was a 6-core opteron, still, but I guess it's gone with the 8 and 12 cores

[02:59:16]

wagnerrp:

yes, there are

[02:59:19]

dustybin:

intel boards sure are nice and stable but they lack features of a gigabyte board

[03:00:04]

sphery:

yeah, but they seem to be in the 4000 series, now

[03:00:13]

sphery:

the 6000 series is the 8/12 core

[03:01:00]

sphery:

guess there was never a 6000 series 6-core

[03:01:13]

sphery:

this is why I hate marketing names

[03:02:16]

Beirdo:

well, back to working on MythTV XP then :)

[03:02:17]

Beirdo:

heheh

[03:02:51]

** wagnerrp votes on MythTV XXIV **

[03:02:57]

** Beirdo has a theme song today... sung by Denis Leary **

[03:03:21]

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[03:04:15]

Beirdo:

I think I'll be reinstalling the Fit-PC2 when the drive arrives

[03:04:30]

wagnerrp:

drive?

[03:04:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, I bought a 160GB 2.5" SATA drive for it

[03:04:50]

sphery:

you got the $39 one that was half the space for $1 more, right?

[03:05:00]

wagnerrp:

no netboot? for shame...

[03:05:02]

Beirdo:

hehe, no. those were 3.5"

[03:05:16]

Beirdo:

screw netboot... for now

[03:06:05]

Beirdo:

this tiny Atom-based GMA500 box will be the frontend in my bedroom if all goes well

[03:07:22]

dustybin:

im not a great fan of netboot

[03:07:32]

dustybin:

it eats bandwidth from the host

[03:07:39]

wagnerrp:

not much

[03:07:59]

dustybin:

when i look at a box, i like to think that is the whole box

[03:08:20]

dustybin:

i dont like the idea of its os being booted from some other place

[03:08:39]

Beirdo:

meh

[03:08:59]

wagnerrp:

when i look at a box, i like to think its being hosted on a mirrored drive, with multiple backup snapshots, and offline image backups

[03:09:34]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: if I get a gajillion-way box, I may also make it with buttloads of disk, etc :)

[03:10:10]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: good point, if my box is down the os will still get backed up

[03:10:52]

dustybin:

*off

[03:11:16]

Beirdo:

it will get backed off

[03:11:36]

dustybin:

when i used to use netboot, i looked at my frontend as being a skeleton

[03:13:43]

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[03:14:14]

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[03:15:04]

wagnerrp:

basically, i use netboot because its far easier to clone a disk image than clone an entire disk

[03:15:34]

dustybin:

i didnt think of the advantages, backing up is a good point

[03:15:41]

wagnerrp:

it takes a few minutes to clone off a new image, create a new iscsi share, add a few config files to an overlay, and add an entry for pxelinux

[03:16:12]

dustybin:

should one use a gigabit network if you do that

[03:16:26]

dustybin:

imagine hd video + 4 frontends netbooting

[03:16:35]

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[03:16:49]

wagnerrp:

i create a snapshot any time i update my systems, i only need to update one and the rest get cloned off it, and i can boot into any of the three previous boot images

[03:17:07]

wagnerrp:

4 frontends netbooting consumes exactly zero network bandwidth

[03:17:14]

wagnerrp:

they use a bit when actually booting

[03:17:26]

wagnerrp:

but after that, everything they need stays cached in memory

[03:17:28]

Beirdo:

now... NFS root... is another issue

[03:17:36]

[R]:

i use nbd instead of nfs

[03:17:39]

[R]:

its pretty cool

[03:17:57]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the automated ubuntu tools use nbd and aufs

[03:18:02]

sphery:

nbd vs iscsi?

[03:18:11]

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[03:18:24]

dustybin:

my VOIP phone reads my FTP server for config files

[03:19:07]

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[03:19:30]

clever:

one of the recent upgrades to my bootable usb stick was squashfs and aufs2

[03:19:46]

dustybin:

haha clever

[03:19:47]

clever:

could easily adapt it to use nbd instead of ramdisk's

[03:20:00]

clever:

dd if=/temp/$ROOT_IMAGE of=/dev/ram0 bs=512 || sh

[03:20:11]

clever:

from this line alone, you can probly figure out how the whole thing works

[03:20:21]

dustybin:

jeeze you havent changed

[03:20:42]

clever:

which part of me?

[03:21:51]

dustybin:

your random geek mess brain :D

[03:21:58]

clever:

lol:)

[03:22:17]

clever:

my bigest problem is that the squash image is now over 512mb, so it wont fit on the older laptop at all

[03:22:34]

clever:

ive begun work on a 2nd thinclient image, but so far that one only leaves ~4mb free

[03:22:43]

clever:

a couple shells and portage and i start getting OOM kills

[03:23:15]

dustybin:

clever: do you run slackware

[03:23:22]

clever:

dustybin: gentoo

[03:23:25]

dustybin:

ok

[03:23:35]

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[03:24:03]

clever:

not sure where i got my initrd from, might have been the genkernel one

[03:24:08]

[R]:

i love watching these discovery shows about the navy ships

[03:24:13]

clever:

but i striped it down to the barebones and rebuilt it

[03:24:56]

[R]:

20000 people and 7 years to build a ship... damn

[03:25:48]

clever:

my current task on the initrd is to auto-select the root image based on how much ram there is

[03:25:54]

clever:

so i dont have to pick one at grub

[03:27:41]

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[03:28:09]

dustybin:

clever: you are like me, you are interested in too many things

[03:28:30]

dustybin:

clever: its time to focus

[03:28:32]

clever:

dustybin: yeah, i just finished reading wikipedia articles on FPGA, ASIC, PAL, ....

[03:28:42]

[R]:

what does PAL have to dow ith FPGA

[03:28:56]

clever:

[R]: programable array logic

[03:29:00]

[R]:

oh

[03:29:02]

[R]:

THAT pal

[03:29:08]

clever:

yeah

[03:29:18]

[R]:

fpgas are evil

[03:29:42]

clever:

[R]: this chip is basicaly a microcontroler in a fpga, http://hackaday.com/2010/08/19/fpslic-powered-led-matrix/

[03:29:57]

clever:

you can basicaly extend the uC all you want

[03:30:14]

[R]:

this guy at my work wanted to implement a cpu inside of an fpga to get around an EOL problem

[03:30:36]

clever:

most of the comments say that you could use a softcore avr inside a pure fpga

[03:30:51]

Beirdo:

why the heck would you want to?

[03:31:17]

Beirdo:

they are far more expensive than the CPU to start with, require a lot more work to use...

[03:31:26]

[R]:

Beirdo: in my case... it was for EOL issues

[03:31:36]

Beirdo:

yeah, I can understand that

[03:31:40]

clever:

Beirdo: a CPU cant do many things at once, like video decoding

[03:31:53]

Beirdo:

neither can a softcore AVR

[03:31:57]

clever:

an fpga could have 20 identical chunks to decode 20 blocks at once

[03:32:21]

clever:

but a softcore avr could take up only 25% of the fpga, leaving you with a few 1000 gates left to aid in video decoding

[03:32:23]

Beirdo:

I've done FPGA logic design before, it's not just that simple, really

[03:32:23]

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[03:32:30]

clever:

or anything else

[03:32:34]

wagnerrp:

if youve got enough gates to handle that processing

[03:32:39]

clever:

yeah, it looks bloody complex

[03:32:42]

wagnerrp:

and youve got enough memory IO to handle that throughput

[03:32:43]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah

[03:32:46]

Beirdo:

or you could buy an AVR for $8, and use the whole FPGA for video

[03:33:07]

wagnerrp:

and youve got enough spare to handle any axillary logic to do whatever else you need

[03:33:16]

Beirdo:

and even then, you'd have IO issues out the wazoo

[03:33:30]

clever:

Beirdo: part of that problem is the ammount of IO between the fpga and avr, the FPSLIC seems to share the SRAM

[03:33:34]

Beirdo:

and not to mention fitting it into an FPGA at all

[03:34:15]

clever:

the FPSLIC FPGA seems like it can also be re-configured on the fly by the avr core

[03:34:31]

Beirdo:

meh

[03:34:38]

clever:

not sure if you could reprogram it fast enough to multitask well or not

[03:34:46]

Beirdo:

anyways, it's fun to play with, but still

[03:34:52]

wagnerrp:

'on-the-fly' meaning several seconds of downtime as it bakes the new image into the processor

[03:35:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: stop talking sense :)

[03:35:12]

clever:

wagnerrp: its sram based programing, it must load the new 'code' every time it boots

[03:35:27]

Beirdo:

and a big frigging ROM to load code from

[03:35:38]

clever:

Beirdo: yeah, the configuration memory

[03:35:41]

Beirdo:

of course you do... before the reset signal is turned off

[03:35:57]

clever:

it also mentions that its 3.3v 33mhz PCI compatible

[03:36:09]

clever:

which makes me think of using it for something vdpau-like

[03:36:14]

Beirdo:

reconfiguring on the fly is not typically useful for things like that

[03:36:18]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:36:23]

Beirdo:

just buy a GPU

[03:36:31]

clever:

yeah, an nvidia chip is simpler

[03:36:37]

Beirdo:

reinventing the wheel is such a waste of time

[03:36:44]

clever:

but is it cheaper?

[03:36:51]

Beirdo:

of course it is

[03:36:52]

clever:

vdpau isnt 100% open source

[03:36:58]

Beirdo:

so?

[03:37:10]

clever:

if something does go wrong, like the OSD becomes permantly stuck, you cant fix it

[03:37:22]

Beirdo:

sure you can

[03:37:29]

Beirdo:

it's called resetting

[03:37:34]

clever:

i heard the storys of that happening to a mythtv dev

[03:37:36]

clever:

it couldnt be reset

[03:37:46]

Beirdo:

anyways....

[03:37:46]

clever:

it even overlaid windows

[03:37:57]

Beirdo:

I'm gonna go do some work

[03:37:59]

clever:

its like it got burned into a flash memory segment

[03:38:05]

wagnerrp:

no, you heard stories of a dev using some buggy developmental implementation of the VDPAU renderers

[03:38:13]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah

[03:38:13]

wagnerrp:

and it poked some bad places in memory

[03:38:26]

[R]:

poked... hehe

[03:38:30]

clever:

if something does bug out and malfunction like that, you cant really fix it

[03:38:48]

clever:

its a black box and all you can do is close your eyes and poke at it some more

[03:38:52]

wagnerrp:

thats why you dont run developmental software on hardware you care about

[03:38:58]

kormoc:

If only the said dev was here in the room...

[03:39:04]

wagnerrp:

if only...

[03:39:13]

wagnerrp:

hows that video card doing by the way?

[03:39:24]

clever:

wagnerrp: so what are the devs to do if they want to improve it?, buy a new card every time they screw up?

[03:39:44]

kormoc:

it works well, purevideo is toast, but other then that, it's still a solid card and in active use

[03:39:48]

Beirdo:

cheaper than buying a new FPGA each time

[03:40:05]

kormoc:

and to be fair

[03:40:11]

clever:

Beirdo: if it was an FPGA with open-source code, you wouldnt have to replace the entire chip

[03:40:22]

clever:

Beirdo: you would know the internals and be able to re-flash the whole chip

[03:40:29]

kormoc:

it wasn't a buggy vdpau renderer, I wrote buggy code that told the card to write to a uninitialized buffer

[03:40:32]

Beirdo:

sure you would if you damaged the chip, silly

[03:40:59]

wagnerrp:

clever: go for it... http://wiki.opengraphics.org/tiki-index.php

[03:41:08]

Beirdo:

enjoy

[03:41:13]

clever:

Beirdo: yeah, but damaging the chip and telling it to do strange things without understanding how they can be undone are 2 different things

[03:41:26]

kormoc:

and FWIW, I *did* reflash the card, didn't fix pure video/vdpau, but took care of everything else

[03:41:34]

Beirdo:

if you say so, clever

[03:41:42]

clever:

kormoc: ah, nvidia has some method to reflash the card?

[03:41:50]

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[03:42:28]

kormoc:

yes, it does

[03:42:32]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, thats the kind of project the chip could be used for, though they probly went for a pure fpga

[03:42:54]

clever:

an 8bit avr is a bit limiting if you wanted to do full 3d and everything else modern cards have

[03:43:24]

Beirdo:

a general-purpose CPU of any kind would be limiting

[03:43:38]

wagnerrp:

its basically the spartan development board with some TMDS transmitters thrown in

[03:43:39]

Beirdo:

which is why GPUs were invented

[03:44:12]

clever:

Beirdo: i would think that anything softcore would be expandable to handle what you need

[03:45:04]

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[03:45:28]

kormoc:

Softcore is just a tease

[03:45:34]

wagnerrp:

clever: an ASIC will run circles around an FPGA of the same size

[03:45:50]

wagnerrp:

similarly, an FPGA will run circles around a GP CPU of the same size

[03:45:55]

wagnerrp:

graphics cards are ASICs

[03:46:02]

clever:

wagnerrp: but can the ASIC be updated?

[03:46:07]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: FPGAs *can* run circles

[03:46:31]

Beirdo:

but if poorly designed/implemented/used... they can suck real bad :)

[03:46:35]

wagnerrp:

well sure, if youve got a good VHDL programmer

[03:46:42]

Beirdo:

yup

[03:46:50]

wagnerrp:

but then so can CPU code, and ASIC hardware

[03:46:51]

sphery:

the GPUs of today use programming in the renderers to provide reprogrammability

[03:46:51]

Beirdo:

or Verilog if you go that way

[03:47:06]

[R]:

Beirdo: this guy at my work says verilog is better

[03:47:12]

clever:

http://nsa.unaligned.org/

[03:47:19]

Beirdo:

they are both better

[03:47:38]

Beirdo:

it's like comparing Perl and Python

[03:47:42]

[R]:

he had to use vhdl for this thing we did... and he was always bitching 'if this was verilog i could do x, y, z'

[03:47:45]

Beirdo:

both are excellent at what they do

[03:47:48]

clever:

sphery: yeah, but bugs in the part of the chip to execute that program cant be fixed without replacing the chip itself, for ASIC type stuff i beleive

[03:48:07]

Beirdo:

[R]: in other words he's not trained in how to use VHDL

[03:48:17]

[R]:

Beirdo: pretty much

[03:48:22]

wagnerrp:

clever: had they relaced that with ASICs, they could run that much faster, on much fewer chips, with much lower power consumption

[03:48:38]

wagnerrp:

its all a tradeoff

[03:48:43]

clever:

yeah

[03:48:50]

wagnerrp:

they would have had to design the chips, and have them built by a foundary

[03:49:00]

wagnerrp:

while they could pick up fpga boards right now

[03:49:06]

clever:

do you want few chips and fixed layout, or more flexible chips and high power usage

[03:49:22]

wagnerrp:

you could say the same thing about FPGAs vs. CPUs

[03:49:55]

sphery:

hardware and software are 2 sides of the same coin

[03:50:12]

sphery:

and completely interchangeable

[03:50:20]

sphery:

but, as wagnerrp has mentioned, with tradeoffs

[03:50:31]

clever:

yeah

[03:50:53]

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[03:51:16]

clever:

might be interesting to see what a 20 core video card could do, with most of the work done with ASIC cpu cores

[03:51:39]

clever:

all the flexibility of a normal cpu with the parallel powers of a fpga kinda

[03:52:50]

clever:

might have trouble with 20 cores trying to read the same code from ram at once

[03:53:03]

sphery:

you should read up on AMD Fusion and AMD Accelerators

[03:53:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you mean that thing AMD was planning 7 years ago, that never happened?

[03:53:39]

sphery:

fusion will be happening end of this year/beginning of next

[03:53:56]

sphery:

and it's the first implementation of accelerators

[03:54:00]

wagnerrp:

when they first started talking about hypertransport

[03:54:04]

kormoc:

cold fusion?

[03:54:16]

wagnerrp:

you were supposed to be able to purchase multi-socket consumer boards

[03:54:16]

sphery:

only the low-TDP ones :)

[03:54:23]

kormoc:

:)

[03:54:34]

wagnerrp:

and you could socket in a GPU processor, or FPGA processor, or some other custom ASIC

[03:54:40]

wagnerrp:

directly connected over hypertransport

[03:54:50]

clever:

wagnerrp: sounds perfect

[03:54:52]

sphery:

Ontario--running at 18W for video and CPU--would probably qualify as cold fusion :)

[03:55:18]

clever:

just need some common standard pinout and a board to adapt the silicon wafer to that pinout

[03:55:43]

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[03:55:57]

wagnerrp:

clever: AMD has changed their sockets a half dozen times since announcing that plan

[03:56:17]

clever:

wagnerrp: dang

[03:56:19]

sphery:

btw, trying to figure out what you guys were talking about with "softcore" produced quite varied results on Google. I /think/ you may mean the Xilinx Microblaze processors, but I have to admit that I didn't look that far through the mess of results.

[03:56:41]

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[03:56:53]

clever:

sphery: http://hackaday.com/2010/08/19/fpslic-powered . . . mment-170416

[03:56:56]

clever:

read that comment

[03:57:31]

sphery:

heh, cool, so some Xilinx processors (maybe newer than the one I mentioned)...

[03:57:42]

sphery:

yeah, Google results weren't restricted to processors

[03:57:44]

clever:

you basicaly pick whatever CPU you want, and drop it into the fpga as a pre-made module

[03:58:20]

sphery:

oh, so the Xilinx is the FPGA?

[03:58:28]

sphery:

and you use "normal" CPUs?

[03:58:30]

clever:

if the softcore is properly documented, you might even be able to remove features you dont need and duplicate ones you need more of

[03:58:36]

sphery:

making some kind of SOC?

[03:58:43]

clever:

sphery: yeah, the FPGA can be programed to emulate a cpu

[03:59:32]

clever:

lol, yeah google gives very bad results :P

[03:59:54]

clever:

even wikipedia defaults to the wrong page

[04:01:36]

sphery:

anyway, regarding Fusion and APUs (Accelerated Processing Units): http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/AMD_fusion_Whitepaper.pdf

[04:01:59]

sphery:

just need to get others making other kinds of APUs to link with the CPU/GPU stuff AMD is doing

[04:02:46]

clever:

yeah, part of the problem is getting competitors to agree to the standard

[04:02:56]

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[04:03:18]

clever:

you can see similar problems in things like cellphone charging adapter

[04:03:19]

clever:

s

[04:03:38]

wagnerrp:

you mean mini-usb?

[04:03:44]

wagnerrp:

they all standardized

[04:03:51]

sphery:

thanks to Europa

[04:03:54]

sphery:

er, Europe

[04:03:55]

clever:

none of my cellphones have bare usb

[04:04:04]

wagnerrp:

not yet, only happened a few months ago

[04:04:13]

clever:

the treo's need an adapter to get usb out of them, the nokia is too old

[04:04:15]

wagnerrp:

my old razr was bare usb

[04:04:20]

sphery:

Jupiter's moon colony didn't really put any pressure on cell phone manufacturers

[04:04:48]

sphery:

Mine is mini-usb, but the newer models from Blackberry have micro-usb

[04:05:42]

sphery:

I heard the razr was a non-compliant USB--i.e. mini/micro-USB form factor, but used illegal current specs, so could blow up batteries if you used its charger with something non-Motorola

[04:06:00]

wagnerrp:

i used to charge it on my computer all the time

[04:06:18]

wagnerrp:

but then the battery became unusable fairly quickly

[04:06:31]

clever:

sphery: i recently read somethign about the ipod, it will use 2 non-standard voltages on the D- and D+ lines to say what current it can supply

[04:06:35]

wagnerrp:

thing only lasted 2 years before the battery wouldnt last a day

[04:07:02]

clever:

wall/car chargers advertise 1amp while chargers powered from AA's advertise alot less

[04:07:15]

sphery:

yeah, sad when vendors can't even stick to the standard they choose

[04:07:36]

sphery:

isn't USB 2 and below maxed at 500mA?

[04:07:37]

wagnerrp:

1 amp?

[04:07:43]

wagnerrp:

yeah, usb is only 500mA

[04:07:53]

clever:

this is from a non-usb charger

[04:08:04]

clever:

just a dumb 5v wall-wart that gives 1amp at 5v

[04:08:11]

clever:

on a usb plug

[04:08:12]

wagnerrp:

the +5V wire isnt rated for 1A

[04:08:44]

clever:

the ipod's all have the same apply only connector, which must be used with an apple->usb cord

[04:08:52]

clever:

they may design those cords with the 1amp in mind

[04:09:04]

clever:

apple only*

[04:09:04]

sphery:

A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and was raised to 150 mA in USB 3.0. A maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) can be drawn from a port in USB 2.0, which was raised to 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0.

[04:09:32]

sphery:

so USB 3 could get close--up to 900mA

[04:09:40]

clever:

sphery: its a non-standard method that doesnt need any inteligent chip on the charger to accept the current request

[04:09:54]

sphery:

500mA is tough for charging non-trivial batteries

[04:11:10]

wagnerrp:

how could you download 2.68TB in one month, and think that wouldnt be viewed as 'a bad thing'?

[04:11:10]

clever:

here it is, http://hackaday.com/2010/08/03/reverse-engine . . . ging-scheme/

[04:11:12]

sphery:

yeah, but to be USB-compliant, it must do a proper handshake--even USB decorators are supposed to connect at 100mA, then negotiate for up to max allowed by the USB standard it implements

[04:11:33]

clever:

sphery: yeah, it will only draw 1amp if the D+ and D- are at 2.8v and 2.0v

[04:11:40]

sphery:

decorators that don't negotiate should only expect a max of 100mA--and even then, might not work well with some host software

[04:11:52]

clever:

standard usb hosts like a laptop wouldnt do that and would actualy speak usb, so it knows not to pull an amp and fry the laptop

[04:13:10]

sphery:

Yeah, the openmoko had a special resistor in the wall-wart charger cable that the device could see so it knew it was allowed to pull 1A, but from a USB port, it was limited to 500mA, so sounds kind of similar

[04:13:12]

clever:

its a cheap and simple way to allow 1amp without damaging a real usb host and without having to implement an entire usb host in the wall-wart

[04:13:29]

sphery:

yeah

[04:15:43]

wagnerrp:

doing that isnt a problem

[04:15:56]

wagnerrp:

forcing people into NDAs and suing people over a couple resistors is

[04:16:17]

clever:

yeah, its stupid

[04:16:44]

clever:

all it does is force you to buy 1amp speed-chargers from apple, to increase the profits they can rake in

[04:16:46]

sphery:

seems it was a 47 K-ohm resistor between the ID pin and ground: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Specialized_USB . . . a_Y-Cable.29

[04:18:27]

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[04:19:03]

clever:

sphery: thats something else, using the 5th pin in the mini-usb plugs

[04:19:38]

clever:

2 different companys have now made completely seperate tricks to get 1amp from a usb wall-wart charger

[04:20:14]

wagnerrp:

clearly we need to 1-up them all with...

[04:20:16]

sphery:

yeah, but those are both pre-Euro-required-standardization

[04:20:17]

wagnerrp:

wait for it...

[04:20:20]

wagnerrp:

1.5A!

[04:20:25]

sphery:

heh

[04:20:42]

sphery:

or, maybe, one millllllion amps

[04:20:52]

wagnerrp:

er... no!

[04:20:55]

** wagnerrp twitches **

[04:21:05]

wagnerrp:

you cant to a million amps over usb

[04:21:08]

wagnerrp:

1.5A

[04:21:14]

wagnerrp:

thats just crazy

[04:21:42]

wagnerrp:

madness i say

[04:21:42]

sphery:

I have to watch Austin Powers. Finally recorded it. Then I'll be able to do the "1 million" jokes better

[04:21:48]

clever:

wagnerrp: not standard usb, but if you put heavy enough cables on the 'usb cord' so its basicaly OO guage wire with usb support, it might work! :P

[04:22:52]

** wagnerrp invites sphery to party like its 1997 **

[04:22:56]

clever:

though the contacts on the usb jack into the phone might melt at those temps

[04:23:16]

sphery:

heh

[04:23:58]

clever:

would need to devise a plug that can handle 1 million amps while still accepting a usb cord also:P

[04:24:12]

clever:

2 second charge rates will beat everybody though! :

[04:24:13]

clever:

P

[04:25:23]

clever:

that reminds me, http://hackaday.com/2005/12/06/supercap-9v-battery/

[04:25:27]

wagnerrp:

make that 0.01s

[04:25:46]

clever:

old article, but its basicaly a 9v cap that lasts 3 hours and charges in 20 seconds, in the form-factor of a 9v battery

[04:26:10]

clever:

not sure on the runtime:chargetime ratio, but that has to be alot better

[04:26:44]

wagnerrp:

but what means 'a light load'

[04:27:04]

sphery:

only devices I have that use 9V batteries, anymore, are my smoke detectors--and this probably isn't a good fit for that application

[04:27:31]

clever:

but you could use a similar idea, stuff a cellphone full of super-caps so it can run for ~24 hours on a charge

[04:27:40]

clever:

and recharge it in 1 minute

[04:27:47]

wagnerrp:

did you see the size of that thing

[04:27:56]

wagnerrp:

hardly something you could 'stuff' in a cell phone

[04:27:57]

sphery:

though a purpose-designed "online" smoke detector that had the electronics to monitor the cap charge and recharge it from house power would be nice...

[04:28:18]

clever:

sphery: if it could charge itself from house power, just have it run from the mains 24/7

[04:28:30]

clever:

use the cap as a 48hour backup kind of thing for power outages

[04:28:37]

sphery:

yeah, they do--but the battery is for when the power goes out when your mains are burning

[04:28:57]

sphery:

exactly--that's what the 9Vs in my alarms are for

[04:29:06]

clever:

id think a cap would have longer shelf-life then a 9v battery

[04:29:06]

sphery:

power outages--including the "final" outage :)

[04:29:41]

sphery:

yeah, but not knowing how the smoke alarm is designed--and it's "battery testing" circuit, I'd guess that just stuffing those in it would not work well

[04:29:52]

clever:

yeah

[04:29:57]

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[04:30:02]

clever:

would need to properly design a smoke dector around that idea

[04:30:29]

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[04:30:52]

sphery:

after all, these are designed by idiots who won't put a little LED on the device to say, "This is the one that's detecting a low battery, so the one needing battery replacement"--instead one of them 13 in the house starts beeping a very non-directional beeping sound, making it /very/ difficult to figure out which one to change

[04:31:08]

sphery:

(and, yeah, I know that "they" say when you change one, change them all, but...)

[04:31:40]

clever:

sphery: ours includes some voice recordings, so it will actualy say somethng long the lines of 'low battery'

[04:31:47]

wagnerrp:

sphery: im sure its just a whetstone that measures battery voltage

[04:31:56]

clever:

being an actual phrase, its alot easyer to find then an anoy-a-tron

[04:31:59]

wagnerrp:

once voltage drops below a certain level, it starts chirping

[04:32:00]

sphery:

that's cool--probably much more directional, so it's easier to find which

[04:32:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: but how would that work with the cap? would it cause the cap to discharge too rapidly compared to a battery

[04:32:32]

clever:

you need enough time to turn you head and find the direction

[04:32:46]

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[04:33:18]

wagnerrp:

clever: the problem is that the sound is echoing down hallways, not coming through the walls

[04:33:34]

wagnerrp:

so you can tell 'its in this part of the house'

[04:33:47]

clever:

wagnerrp: yeah, but it would still lead you to the right hallway, where you can get another bearing

[04:33:47]

wagnerrp:

and then you have to wait another minute for another chirp to follow it further

[04:33:54]

clever:

yeah

[04:34:05]

wagnerrp:

its that unpredictable time delay

[04:34:20]

clever:

its harder to find the exact direction if you dont have time to turn your head and get a good bearing

[04:34:24]

sphery:

yeah, very unpredictable delay when the battery is first failing

[04:34:28]

sphery:

that's what kills me

[04:34:35]

sphery:

takes me 5–10 minutes to find the right one

[04:34:49]

clever:

sphery: that could be fixed with a latch, so once it dips below the voltage its stuck beeping

[04:35:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: so when you find it, do you press the 9V to your tongue and say 'yep, its low'?

[04:35:16]

sphery:

if I were doing mods, I'd be more likely to add an LED :)

[04:35:26]

sphery:

heh

[04:36:02]

clever:

sphery: ours has red and green led's, they probly already did your idea

[04:36:06]

sphery:

turning my head isn't enough--I actually have to stand in various doorways to find out which side of the door it's on

[04:36:44]

sphery:

yeah, I'm sure my idea isn't novel--just annoying that my alarms don't have it (stupid 1999 tech)

[04:37:01]

wagnerrp:

clearly you just need to wire your alarms into the house power

[04:37:10]

sphery:

they are

[04:37:20]

wagnerrp:

then what goes bad?

[04:37:27]

sphery:

the battery

[04:37:35]

sphery:

just a "dies over time" thing

[04:37:38]

wagnerrp:

but it has house power

[04:37:44]

sphery:

seems to be somewhere between 1–3 yrs

[04:37:46]

clever:

yeah, the shelf-life of the battery isnt forever

[04:38:00]

sphery:

yeah, but it verifies the battery status so that when the fire burns through the mains, it can beep for me

[04:38:02]

clever:

thats where a super-cap might be a good replacement

[04:38:34]

wagnerrp:

pretty sure my mains alarms dont have batteries

[04:38:37]

sphery:

unfortunately, the link doesn't work

[04:38:41]

clever:

sphery: its more likely that an electrical fire will pop the wrong breaker and just leave you with the power turned off

[04:41:02]

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[04:42:49]

sphery:

clever: heh, you'd like this: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/SuperCapWinners

[04:44:13]

clever:

sphery: nice

[04:44:22]

clever:

if only i had a few to play with myself

[04:44:32]

sphery:

yeah

[04:44:39]

wagnerrp:

i would love the supercap mouse

[04:44:47]

sphery:

yeah, the mouse is a nice idea

[04:44:54]

wagnerrp:

always forget to charge it

[04:45:01]

wagnerrp:

and have to pull out the wired spare for a few hours

[04:45:09]

sphery:

and, with a few seconds charge time, who cares if you do

[04:45:19]

clever:

my only wireless mouse is AA based, cant recharge it

[04:45:25]

wagnerrp:

perfect time for a bathroom break

[04:45:34]

clever:

and since its PS2, it cant work on any modern laptop

[04:45:39]

wagnerrp:

rechargeable AAs?

[04:45:44]

sphery:

the water cannon would be cool

[04:45:49]

wagnerrp:

modern laptops dont have PS2?

[04:46:05]

clever:

wagnerrp: pretty much all the new ones i have are usb

[04:46:10]

sphery:

I use rechargeable AA and AAA batteries for nearly everything

[04:46:21]

sphery:

including my wireless mouse I use with the laptop

[04:46:30]

clever:

the last 2 are usb, and the 3rd oldest only has 1 ps2 port (auto keyboard or mouse)

[04:46:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: pshh... Sam is an idiot

[04:46:59]

clever:

our wireless mouse receiver is a huge pod on the end of a long ps2 cord, not that good for laptop use

[04:47:02]

wagnerrp:

doesnt even know the difference between a railgun and a coilgun

[04:47:06]

clever:

needs one of those tiny usb receivers

[04:47:06]

sphery:

heh

[04:47:14]

** sphery goes to find the difference **

[04:47:41]

wagnerrp:

sphery: but you arent proposing people give you expensive supercaps so you can go buy one

[04:47:58]

wagnerrp:

he also doesnt understand the difficulties of building a coilgun

[04:48:30]

sphery:

heh, I've used coil guns in video games

[04:48:43]

sphery:

didn't know it, though--since they call them Gauss Rifles

[04:50:20]

sphery:

wow, I'm glad the railgun in my video games doesn't leave this much plasma in my face: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Railgun_usnavy_2008.jpg

[04:50:27]

wagnerrp:

in order to get any kind of speed out of them, youve got to get the timing down to microseconds, and you have to use a lot of fairly short coils to keep resident magnitism low

[04:51:01]

wagnerrp:

basically, it works well on the large scale, not so much on the small scale

[04:51:34]

clever:

railgun sounds alot simpler, no timing

[04:51:44]

wagnerrp:

cutting the power doesnt mean the electrons instantly stop flowing

[04:52:10]

wagnerrp:

youve got to ramp the power down prematurely

[04:52:21]

clever:

ive heard of the same effect in IO pins on uC, ringing from the very sudden change in io level

[04:54:36]

wagnerrp:

would a cap actually blow if you stuck it in an AC socket?

[04:54:56]

wagnerrp:

seems to me it would just continually charge and discharge

[04:54:58]

clever:

id think a polarized one would def blow

[04:55:15]

clever:

since your putting current thru it backwards

[04:56:05]

clever:

and depending on the series resistance, it might draw current and heat up

[05:02:21]

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[05:03:29]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: an electrolytic cap would go off like a firecracker... and likely embed the can in the opposing wall

[05:03:59]

Beirdo:

we had a great demo of that in grade 10 electronics

[05:04:29]

Beirdo:

there are other (non-polarized) types that can handle AC no problem

[05:09:07]

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[05:10:59]

clever:

id think it would just waste power then

[05:11:33]

clever:

once the polatity reverses, your basicaly mashing them together backwards and will just blow all the current into nothing

[05:15:05]

Beirdo:

huh?

[05:15:25]

Beirdo:

go take some filter theory :)

[05:15:29]

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[05:15:31]

clever:

the mains will be + – while the cap would be charged with – +

[05:15:40]

Beirdo:

R+C -> filter

[05:15:45]

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[05:16:38]

Chaorain:

I'm having a slight problem, Mythtv plays wmv files but I don't get any audio, help please?

[05:16:50]

Beirdo:

you can make a high-pass or a low-pass with that combo... with bandwidth knees determined by the R and C values

[05:17:13]

clever:

Beirdo: from what i know, a filter cap will try to hold a certain voltage/polarity, and will resist changes by either absorbing the extra power or feeding the lack of it

[05:17:43]

clever:

yeah, an R+C would be different, but a bare cap just stuck right in the mains socket...?

[05:18:26]

Beirdo:

is the same as R+C with R being extremely low (series resistor)

[05:18:36]

clever:

ah

[05:18:42]

clever:

wasnt thinking of counting that

[05:21:15]

Beirdo:

Chaorain: need a bit more detail if you expect an answer

[05:21:34]

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[05:28:53]

Beirdo:

Oh, What the heck?!

[05:29:27]

Beirdo:

OK, there it goes

[05:29:35]

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[05:29:59]

Beirdo:

and KOMO crapped out again

[05:30:45]

** Beirdo slaps his antenna **

[05:32:36]

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[05:36:42]

Beirdo:

oh nice.

[05:36:59]

Beirdo:

buttloads of ac3 decoding errors off the OTA stuff

[05:37:00]

Beirdo:

:)

[05:37:12]

Chaorain:

Beirdo: I try and play a wmv in Mythtv and I get video but not audio

[05:38:25]

Beirdo:

we heard that the first time

[05:38:39]

Beirdo:

wmv is a very non-specific term

[05:39:03]

Beirdo:

what does... say mplayer say its codecs are?

[05:44:31]

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[05:45:06]

Beirdo:

wow, what a waste of 720p this is.

[05:45:16]

Beirdo:

5.1 audio though

[05:46:42]

Beirdo:

snicker

[05:46:54]

Beirdo:

2010-08–19 22:46:30.163 [mpegvideo_vdpau @ 0x7f4fea8821a0]slice below image (128 >= 45)

[05:47:01]

Beirdo:

beautiful

[05:47:22]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think the antenna needs tweaking :)

[05:54:27]

sphery:

you'd think if it sliced /below/ the image, it would work. But if it sliced /through/ the image, I could see how that would be bad.

[05:54:43]

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[05:54:55]

Beirdo:

heh

[05:55:07]

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[05:56:21]

Beirdo:

that MPEG corruption was trying to put the video at row 2032–2048... on 720p video

[05:56:32]

Beirdo:

OTA is great

[05:57:46]

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[06:22:37]

Beirdo:

quiet night

[06:22:43]

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[06:55:44]

womble:

For the record, the Netgear Digital Entertainer Live (EVA2000) works well with MythTV's UPnP AV mediaserver support. I'd update the wiki, but the hoops required to add a single bullet point seems excessive.

[06:55:49]

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[06:57:10]

Beirdo:

!trout womble in-and-out

[06:57:10]

** MythLogBot slaps womble with a in-and-out trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[06:57:42]

sphery:

heh, yeah, especially since you can't ask him for the info you need

[06:58:06]

Beirdo:

sigh

[06:58:11]

Beirdo:

ah well :)

[06:58:55]

Beirdo:

I need to mess with my antenna

[06:58:59]

Beirdo:

and no, that's not code

[06:59:27]

sphery:

heh

[07:03:12]

Beirdo:

OK, it likes THAT

[07:08:53]

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[07:50:15]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: Thanks for the (very early/late day) confirmation/correction about storage decisions.

[07:50:57]

Beirdo:

sphery: I hate OTA :)

[07:51:09]

Beirdo:

stupid antenna

[07:51:18]

sphery:

I love OTA

[07:51:19]

Beirdo:

if I'm in the near field, it works great

[07:51:32]

Beirdo:

go sit on the couch... glitchy glitchy

[07:51:39]

sphery:

but I'm in a magical place where all my OTA is transmitted from within 3 degrees of each other

[07:51:58]

Beirdo:

this makes it bloody hard to tweak right

[07:52:04]

sphery:

but I do understand your human antenna blockage thing--happens with my RF remote

[07:52:13]

Beirdo:

is the signal meter available?

[07:52:14]

sphery:

the more people I have over to watch TV, the worse my remote works

[07:52:20]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:52:33]

Beirdo:

for me, my body mass helps tune it better

[07:52:45]

sphery:

ah, yeah, that happens too

[07:53:01]

sphery:

just need to get a big meat bag to hang from the antenna permanently?

[07:53:22]

Beirdo:

seems taht way

[07:53:44]

sphery:

I did go with a big antenna that took me 8hrs to hang in my attic, though

[07:54:03]

sphery:

also, how much are you splitting the line?

[07:54:26]

sphery:

just 2x (for the 2 HDHR tuners)?

[07:54:40]

Beirdo:

it has an inline amp (dunno how many dB), then a single 1:2 splitter (-3.2dB each channel)

[07:54:46]

Beirdo:

that's it

[07:54:54]

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[07:55:03]

Beirdo:

OK, I horizontally polarized teh UHF, seems to like me more

[07:55:04]

sphery:

yeah, so it's probably not that

[07:57:26]

Beirdo:

I think it was the UHF polarization

[07:57:43]

Beirdo:

4.1 is looking good now (actually on 38 or something)

[07:57:52]

Beirdo:

aka ABC

[07:58:10]

Beirdo:

NBC on 5.1

[07:58:29]

Beirdo:

also UHF (channel 48 ish)... working better :)

[07:59:04]

Beirdo:

CBS – 7.1 Working fine

[07:59:34]

Beirdo:

PBS – 9.1 Working fine

[08:00:08]

Beirdo:

CW – 11.1 a bit glitchy

[08:00:38]

Beirdo:

Fox – 13.1 Working fine so far

[08:00:50]

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[08:01:13]

Beirdo:

Hah

[08:01:21]

Beirdo:

16.1... won't tune

[08:01:26]

Beirdo:

so no KONG

[08:01:42]

Beirdo:

I get KING but not KONG

[08:02:45]

Beirdo:

but TBN... comes in great. Crud

[08:02:59]

sphery:

http://www.tvfool.com/ has some great info

[08:03:01]

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[08:03:24]

sphery:

I finally found out that the new multistory hospital building isn't in my LOS

[08:03:49]

Beirdo:

28.1 KBTC... nada

[08:03:55]

sphery:

(when it was being built, I was having antenna problems, but they've gone away... maybe it was the cranes and stuff...)

[08:03:59]

Beirdo:

But I think that's from Tacoma

[08:04:36]

Beirdo:

33.1 ION... a touch glitchy but there

[08:04:39]

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[08:05:01]

Beirdo:

and hehe.

[08:05:12]

Beirdo:

51.1 Univision... glitchy as crap

[08:05:26]

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[08:05:46]

Beirdo:

that suits me fine

[08:05:55]

sphery:

yeah, same here

[08:06:11]

Beirdo:

I had more than enough of that crap in PR

[08:07:04]

Beirdo:

oooh pretty.

[08:07:17]

Beirdo:

Outer Limits (old version in B&W)

[08:07:31]

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[08:07:34]

Beirdo:

and moving ants at the top :)

[08:07:44]

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[08:07:48]

sphery:

better than fighting ants all over the screen

[08:08:09]

Beirdo:

how true

[08:08:13]

sphery:

except if it's an Outer Limits episode with fighting ants (and not a pure static fighting ants things)

[08:08:23]

Beirdo:

it's the VBI

[08:08:35]

Beirdo:

on an SD channel

[08:12:01]

sphery:

The Outer Limits: The Zanti Misfits -> http://www.tv.com/the-outer-limits-1963/the-z . . . summary.html + http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=zant . . . N&tab=wi

[08:12:37]

Beirdo:

Keeper of the Purple Twilight

[08:12:56]

sphery:

heh, Zanti is the one with ants

[08:13:00]

Beirdo:

that's the episode

[08:13:02]

Beirdo:

ahh

[08:13:03]

Beirdo:

:)

[08:13:27]

sphery:

purple twilight sounds good

[08:13:56]

sphery:

seems the purple is his nose?

[08:14:07]

Beirdo:

no clue :)

[08:14:21]

Beirdo:

it's all in black and white anyways

[08:14:59]

sphery:

yeah, can't tell in the b&w, but the fan memorabilia has colored pics of the soldiers

[08:15:12]

Beirdo:

cool

[08:15:12]

sphery:

http://www.google.com/images?sa=3&q=Keepe . . . earch+images

[08:16:27]

Beirdo:

aye

[08:37:15]

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[09:43:53]

justinh:

whoops. remember a while back I rigged up an HDMI connection over flat flexi ribbon cable & found it to work – and demonstrated it to a manager? We went into full production with it. WHOOPS

[09:44:43]

justinh:

I tested it on a bunch of really crappy cheap monitors & found it to be ok.. but the production test setup uses different monitors and... the display has dropouts at 720P. Heh

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[12:36:26]

awoodland:

is there a plugin that schedules recordings of programmes I might be interested in based on my viewing/recording habbits?

[12:38:27]

justinh:

nope

[12:38:52]

justinh:

a few people have played with wishlist type stuff, but so far none has had a major amount of takeup yet

[12:39:25]

justinh:

besides, I doubt it could be relied on the way UK EPG data is so often miscategorised

[12:40:57]

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[12:52:42]

wagnerrp:

ive played around with a script and some data source i found

[12:53:09]

wagnerrp:

but to be honest, it only picked up the shows i already knew about

[12:54:05]

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[12:54:58]

justinh:

doesn't matter much anyway – Sky will soon be snapping up every new show worth seeing not already on the BBC

[12:55:48]

justinh:

and then when you think about other supposedly 'smart' engines & the stupid suggestions they come out with... "people who like X, also like Y"...

[12:56:15]

justinh:

people who bought Franz Kafka also bought this "Jade Goody: My Story (part four)"

[13:06:33]

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[13:10:22]

dewman:

waf factor went up with the new theme... =)

[13:14:07]

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[13:22:45]

justinh:

the new theme being?

[13:25:17]

dewman:

the child theme....

[13:25:37]

wagnerrp:

that theme is so childish

[13:25:57]

dewman:

its pink....I think that is why she likes it...

[13:26:11]

wagnerrp:

(its named childish)

[13:26:35]

dewman:

=)

[13:28:57]

dewman:

wagnerrp, do you remember be asking about that nvidia 5700 pci card a while ago?

[13:29:15]

wagnerrp:

not really

[13:29:30]

dewman:

well....you pretty much told me it was junk....

[13:29:31]

wagnerrp:

surprised they would put that high end of a card on PCI

[13:29:34]

wagnerrp:

yep

[13:29:40]

dewman:

you were right...

[13:30:25]

dewman:

had it in the fe for about a week, I pulled it the other day and went back to the 8 meg on board video....

[13:31:12]

dewman:

HD was terrible to watch...

[13:31:20]

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[13:31:53]

wagnerrp:

yeah, 1080i/p60 will saturate the bus

[13:32:38]

wagnerrp:

and 720p60 will come pretty close

[13:33:03]

wagnerrp:

the PCI 8-series only works because youre pumping compressed video at a few MB/s

[13:33:12]

wagnerrp:

instead of raw uncompressed

[13:33:26]

mag0o:

dewman: any gotchas with Childish? Shortly after I submitted it for the theme contest I got a 16:9 TV and haven't done much with it since.

[13:33:32]

dewman:

it was good on fast-forward and rewinding, but overall was junk....the onboard is good for watching but not ff and rwing.

[13:34:10]

dewman:

mag0o, just changed it this morning, I havent had to much time to fool around with it.

[13:34:24]

mag0o:

ah, ok

[13:34:50]

dewman:

mag0o, but it looks really sharp.... you did a great job...

[13:35:22]

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[13:35:24]

mag0o:

thanks :)

[13:35:49]

mag0o:

my 8yo had a bit of input on it

[13:37:06]

dewman:

time to get your 8yo coding!

[13:37:19]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee

[13:40:23]

mag0o:

that would be nice, I could turn her in to a mini-me

[13:40:43]

mag0o:

and hand her the things I don't want to do!!!

[13:42:11]

dewman:

hahahaha.

[13:42:41]

dewman:

my 2yo does things I dont want him to do....Like power off the computers....

[13:50:22]

awoodland:

can anyone recommend a usb freeview hd tuner? I can't seem to see any HD ones on the wiki (could be being blind though)

[13:50:42]

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[13:50:44]

awoodland:

(DVB-T2 is what they're called right?)

[13:51:47]

bashtoni:

awoodland: None released yet AFAIK

[13:52:49]

awoodland:

ah that would explain why I can't find one then :)

[13:52:55]

awoodland:

any mini pci-e?

[13:53:20]

bashtoni:

awoodland: I don't think there are any DVB-T2 cards yet either

[13:53:34]

bashtoni:

awoodland: I think Hauppauge are supposed to be bringing one out before the end of the year

[13:54:06]

awoodland:

I was sort of looking at getting a 2nd tuner and it made sense to go hd with it given we're in a really good freeview hd signal area

[13:56:42]

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[13:59:03]

justinh:

there was talk on Hauppauge's forum of them doing a USB DVB-T2 tuner but the thread got deleted AFAIK

[13:59:22]

justinh:

you'd be better off getting freesat if you want FTA HD anyway IMHO

[13:59:45]

justinh:

I doubt the bitrates on T2 will be worth having

[14:02:18]

wagnerrp:

higher efficiency means we can recompress it down to almost nothing, right?

[14:02:19]

iamlindoro:

Well that ought to make some people very happy, .24 will support embedded text subtitles

[14:02:32]

iamlindoro:

which is to say, trunk already does

[14:03:07]

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[14:03:17]

wagnerrp:

you mean i can no longer tell people to just pull the bitmapped .sub tracks off 'their dvd'?

[14:03:36]

justinh:

wagnerrp: they plan to have 5 'HD' channels on one mux.. IIRC even DVB-T2 only allows 36Mb/sec

[14:03:44]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, heh, correct

[14:04:03]

justinh:

anyway whatever the bitrate max of T2 is, it's not much to div up between so many channels

[14:04:04]

wagnerrp:

justinh: well if its all h264, thats not too bad

[14:04:07]

iamlindoro:

on the other hand, it's one less complaint we get to hear about how people "need" to use mplayer

[14:04:27]

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[14:04:31]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yeah it'll be h.264 alright

[14:05:00]

justinh:

considering dvb-s used to be 18Mb/sec h.264 though...

[14:05:11]

justinh:

(up to)

[14:06:56]

justinh:

oh great software guy. refuse to acknowledge there's a bug which sometimes protects a config area of the flash – unless I give you a dump of the flash data before & after it got mysteriously locked – for which you know fine well there's no utility for. grr

[14:07:48]

** justinh puts it on the pile next to the machines which brick the flash after changing its IP address **

[14:15:10]

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[14:17:04]

Matt:

morning

[14:21:14]

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[14:35:44]

GreyFoxx:

Nice!! I just came accross a customers webserver which they wanted me to make a backup copy of ... It's running kernel 2.2.13

[14:36:03]

GreyFoxx:

no wonder it didn't like ext2 with 256 byte inodes :)

[14:36:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

did you bring along a floppy to make a backup on?

[14:37:23]

Matt:

hey, 2.2 isn't *that* old :)

[14:38:07]

** Matt remembers upgrading from 2.0->2.2 **

[14:38:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

1999

[14:38:11]

Matt:

and again from 2.2->2.4

[14:38:16]

Matt:

and again to 2.6 :)

[14:38:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

2.2.13 dated Oct 20 1999 on kernel.org

[14:38:49]

bashtoni:

Pah, I remember libc5 -> glibc, that was way more hassle :)

[14:38:57]

Matt:

yes, yes it was

[14:39:09]

Matt:

especially during the time both were actively in use

[14:39:42]

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[14:56:31]

shadash:

I suspect everyone has seen the ps3 hack news. Looks like the usb allows you to run unsigned homebrew code. Whould this mean a MythTV homebrew dvd could be created and loaded on the drive :-)

[14:56:49]

[R]:

oh yeah... like tomorrow!

[15:01:04]

shadash:

can be done was my question

[15:01:04]

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[15:01:50]

[R]:

anything "can" be done if you know enough

[15:02:00]

[R]:

but that requires porting mythtv to ps3 architecture

[15:02:03]

[R]:

good luck with that

[15:03:17]

iamlindoro:

shadash: can shouldn't be conflated with "should"... it was possible to run MythTV on PS3 with the "Other OS" option, so it has been done many times before-- unfortunately, without support for accelerated video/SPUs/etc., it is a horrible experience

[15:03:47]

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[15:04:06]

[R]:

iamlindoro: did you see this patriot media player thing on the -users list?

[15:04:06]

wagnerrp:

limited memory puts a bit of damper on things too

[15:04:26]

[R]:

i think this is my "cheap" upnp box i've been looking for

[15:04:39]

iamlindoro:

[R]: I've seen mention of it before, but I didn't look too closely-- it's just a basic uPnP client, right?

[15:04:56]

iamlindoro:

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

[15:05:07]

iamlindoro:

But wondered if it had some fancy feature I missed

[15:05:22]

wagnerrp:

who uses keywords in emails?

[15:05:26]

[R]:

it does unnp, has usb, internal 2.5 hdd

[15:05:30]

iamlindoro:

heh, yeah, I wondered about that too

[15:05:35]

[R]:

and i think i read it does NFS

[15:05:48]

iamlindoro:

cool

[15:06:00]

[R]:

i'm reading the newegg comments now, then off to the forums

[15:06:06]

[R]:

aparently there is custom firmware for it too

[15:06:25]

[R]:

the problem is i'd need to run ethernet all the way around my room

[15:06:38]

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[15:06:42]

wagnerrp:

and spamming it out to multiple threads? not cool

[15:07:34]

devinheitmueller:

It doesn't actually have an internal drive.

[15:07:43]

[R]:

yes, it odenst come with one... but you can put one in

[15:08:31]

[R]:

Cons: Only 8 Files can be copied at a Time onto its int HD

[15:08:32]

[R]:

haha

[15:08:49]

wagnerrp:

whats the point then?

[15:09:06]

[R]:

point of what

[15:09:14]

wagnerrp:

even bothering to support a hard drive

[15:09:24]

[R]:

so you can put one inside

[15:09:25]

wagnerrp:

if you can only store 8 files

[15:09:29]

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[15:09:30]

[R]:

no... copy 8 at a time

[15:09:32]

[R]:

not put 8 total

[15:09:33]

wagnerrp:

oh

[15:11:18]

[R]:

Does not play older .wmv or .rm formats from the win98 era 10 years ago

[15:11:20]

[R]:

aparently thats a con

[15:11:22]

[R]:

lol

[15:11:38]

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[15:11:57]

devinheitmueller:

It's probably a licensing issue. They don't want to pay the royalties on the older formats.

[15:12:09]

devinheitmueller:

... which would inherently make the product more expensive...

[15:12:27]

wagnerrp:

they have to be more explicit when they say 'WMV'

[15:12:43]

wagnerrp:

a number of bluray, and most hddvd, are WMV

[15:13:03]

devinheitmueller:

Are you sure they support WMV at all?

[15:14:32]

[R]:

aparently some formats are

[15:15:17]

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[15:15:30]

[R]:

Cons: No icons with file list. 1080P has green lines and had to set to 1080i (hopefully fixed in future firmware).

[15:15:34]

[R]:

that sounds familiar

[15:19:18]

shadash:

iamlindoro: the new PS3 hack allows full accewss to SPU's + 3D ;-)

[15:19:41]

iamlindoro:

shadash: It might allow access to them, but you still need to write a lib to wrap them, and a video renderer

[15:20:02]

shadash:

yes

[15:20:28]

iamlindoro:

So.... you're still in the exact same boat

[15:20:35]

iamlindoro:

which is, trying to run myth on it will be pain

[15:21:27]

shadash:

well we'll see how homebrew ps3 developement goes now that full access to hardware is possible

[15:21:45]

shadash:

it's likely that someone will put a library together

[15:22:20]

[R]:

oh yeah... probably only take them a few days to write it too

[15:22:28]

shadash:

I didn't say that

[15:23:42]

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[16:07:15]

45PAA1H2Z:

Question

[16:07:18]

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[16:07:25]

45PAA1H2Z:

wow, whats my nick? =)

[16:07:29]

45PAA1H2Z is now known as blizzard`

[16:07:53]

blizzard`:

If I have a working channel list

[16:08:03]

blizzard`:

and I just want to check if some channels have changed (dvb-s)

[16:08:15]

blizzard`:

what will happen if I reinitialize a transponder scan?

[16:08:21]

blizzard`:

will I get updates or duplicates?

[16:10:06]

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[16:10:13]

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[16:11:17]

gbee:

updates, but the updates may overwrite changes you've made, such has marking channels as hidden and it may enable EIT on channels where it's currently disabled

[16:11:37]

gbee:

the new scanner needs to be more intelligent :(

[16:11:58]

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[16:12:36]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Unfortunately the new scanner is one of the most obvious exponents of "meh, it's good enough for me now, guess it's done."

[16:13:27]

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[16:13:56]

[R]:

so i can't decide if i want to get this patriot box

[16:14:04]

[R]:

i hate big decisions :(

[16:18:45]

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[16:20:47]

hacki:

iamlindoro: Ok

[16:21:06]

gbee:

hacki: id3v2 -l <file>

[16:21:28]

gbee:

if you have id3v2 installed, if not install it since it's handy for tag debugging

[16:21:35]

hacki:

gbee: Audio file with ID3 version 2.3.0

[16:22:11]

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[16:22:32]

gbee:

hacki: and you don't have "Ignore ID3 Tags" enabled in the mythmusic settings?

[16:23:01]

hacki:

gbee: I'll check, I have definitely not enabled it

[16:23:14]

gbee:

ok, since it's not actually inserting tags to the database, you might try -v database and see if there are any obvious errors

[16:23:20]

hacki:

The files have both v1 and v2 tags

[16:23:26]

gbee:

hacki: ok good

[16:23:34]

hacki:

gbee: it's inserting new rows

[16:23:45]

hacki:

It's just that the metadata tags are empty

[16:23:58]

hacki:

But I'll check with -v database

[16:24:22]

gbee:

do you have taglib aka libtag installed? If so, which version?

[16:24:25]

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[16:24:31]

hacki:

Ignore ID3 Tags is off

[16:24:55]

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[16:25:04]

gbee:

I'll leave you with iamlindoro as I've got to get some food

[16:25:27]

GreyFoxx:

hahaha this ancient box has syslog logs from 1998 and 1999 :) *zap*

[16:25:29]

hacki:

gbee: I'm on ubuntu lucid libtag1c2a 1.6.3–0ubuntu1 and libtag1-vanilla same version are installed

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[16:33:06]

hacki:

gbee: Ok, there are no db errors

[16:33:19]

hacki:

I just deleted a few entries from music_songs and re-scanned.

[16:33:44]

hacki:

mythmusic picks up the tags from certain files just fine, while it does not read the tags from a lot of them

[16:36:28]

iamlindoro:

hacki: Mythmusic only supports id3v2 tags in .23

[16:36:51]

iamlindoro:

id3v1 is literally 15 years old, and was replaced by id3v2 like 12 years ago

[16:37:19]

iamlindoro:

I would wager that the v2 ones are working fine, and your v1 ones aren't being inserted (which is what is expected)

[16:41:47]

gbee:

id3v2 is less one year younger than v1 ... v1 was virtually dead at birth

[16:42:13]

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[16:42:13]

gbee:

hacki: 0.24 will support v1 tags, but only over my objections :)

[16:42:45]

iamlindoro:

and even then, only a limited number of them IIRC

[16:43:50]

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[16:46:32]

hacki:

iamlindoro: Ok, I checked the files, that's certainly the problem. I could not find anything related to that in the 0.23 release notes though

[16:46:49]

iamlindoro:

It wouldn't have been, it predates .23

[16:47:18]

hacki:

0.21 maybe? mythtv moved to taglib in that release

[16:47:18]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, convert your v1 tags to v2 and it should all work fine

[16:47:35]

iamlindoro:

belive id3v2 provides a function to automatically do the conversion

[16:48:21]

hacki:

iamlindoro: I'll do that!

[16:48:27]

hacki:

Thanks for your help!

[16:48:48]

** wagnerrp didnt even have a computer in '98-'99 **

[16:48:49]

hacki:

I have another pretty annoying problem with mythmusic though

[16:49:05]

hacki:

playback stutters

[16:49:12]

hacki:

especially at the start of the songs

[16:49:29]

hacki:

it's not the soundcard, mplayer plays the same file just fine

[16:49:42]

hacki:

all visualizations are off (even coverart)

[16:49:59]

hacki:

the files are on nfs, but that did not cause any problems in the past

[16:50:07]

iamlindoro:

It is likely some audio output issues that have since been fixed in trunk (.24 will be out in roughly November)

[16:52:06]

hacki:

iamlindoro: Any patches that have been backported to 0.23?

[16:52:08]

gbee:

it could also be that you're using the aggressive audio buffering setting, or have disabled the other audio related setting which most people generally need (can't remember the name), both have been removed in 0.24 but maybe they were still present in 0.23

[16:52:17]

gbee:

hacki: we're upto 0.23.1

[16:52:25]

iamlindoro:

hacki: No, it's a complete rewrite of the audio output classes, to it's unbackportable

[16:52:27]

wagnerrp:

no, the audio output in trunk has been completely rewritten

[16:52:29]

iamlindoro:

er so it's

[16:52:35]

hacki:

ok, I see

[16:52:51]

hacki:

gbee: Could you please elaborate on the settings I should check?

[16:53:18]

gbee:

he shouldn't be having problems in 0.23 unless it's configuration related, although it could be the evil pulseaudio again

[16:54:53]

hacki:

gbee: pulseaudio is off

[16:55:52]

hacki:

gbee: any other ideas? It's like that since the upgrade from 0.21. it used to work perfectly before that upgrade.

[16:57:08]

gbee:

hacki: those settings are mentioned here – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Troubleshooting:Pr . . . _pause#Fix_4

[16:58:35]

hacki:

gbee: thanks, I'll have a look at those!

[16:59:46]

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[17:02:33]

gbee:

that page is about debugging similar issues with video playback, but there is some overlap with music playback problems, especially in the case of the audio related errors

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[17:45:16]

Virindi:

How do I disable the little preview videos in the frontend? I've looked through all the options pages and can't find anything...

[17:45:32]

wagnerrp:

there are no little preview videos in the frontend

[17:46:16]

Virindi:

half the time when I try to delete something it says error recording is in use for preview generation, I have to wait like 20 seconds before it lets me delete

[17:46:45]

Virindi:

I guess it's just an image now not a video

[17:46:49]

Virindi:

it used to be a video

[17:47:11]

wagnerrp:

the preview generator should complete within a fraction of a second

[17:47:17]

wagnerrp:

if it does not, then it has crashed

[17:47:36]

Virindi:

well I get that error a lot, I have to wait a bunch of seconds before I can delete

[17:47:44]

Virindi:

I was just hoping I could disable previews

[17:48:37]

Virindi:

I seem to remember that in the past they were videos and there was an option to disable it

[17:48:43]

Virindi:

but that was probably a long time ago

[17:49:00]

wagnerrp:

those were removed when the UI code was rewritten for 0.22

[17:49:11]

wagnerrp:

and there has not yet been a replacement video widget written

[17:51:40]

Virindi:

oh well

[17:52:01]

Virindi:

I think I'll live :)

[17:54:40]

wagnerrp:

sphery: around?

[17:55:07]

sphery:

yeah

[17:55:21]

wagnerrp:

youre working on the videofile refactor right?

[17:55:40]

** Beirdo yawns **

[17:55:49]

sphery:

yeah

[17:56:14]

sphery:

Virindi: the live preview videos aren't what's causing the program to be in use--it's the thumbnail preview generation

[17:56:21]

sphery:

Virindi: trunk or 0.23-fixes?

[17:56:28]

wagnerrp:

might be a good idea to add some sort of mapping between versions of videos and devices

[17:56:39]

wagnerrp:

something to say 'this device gets this version of the recording'

[17:56:41]

sphery:

versions of video and devices?

[17:56:46]

sphery:

oh

[17:56:52]

sphery:

like hosts?

[17:57:28]

[R]:

wagnerrp: what speed is the kitty grinder running at these days?

[17:57:46]

[R]:

do i need to sacrifice a virgin to make trunk work?

[17:58:03]

wagnerrp:

i mean just something to identify what should be handled out to a device, say over UPNP

[17:58:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:58:49]

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[17:58:51]

Beirdo:

no sacrificing virgins... that's a waste

[17:59:04]

iamlindoro:

Virgins are useless

[17:59:18]

[R]:

lol

[17:59:27]

iamlindoro:

That's like saying you want a retard to do your physics homework

[17:59:32]

[R]:

HAHA

[17:59:37]

Beirdo:

I would disagree with that... they have uses, but, they lose their status

[17:59:49]

Beirdo:

anyways.... I have a meeting. YAY

[17:59:50]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:00:45]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i guess that could be handled by the comment field in videofile

[18:01:14]

[R]:

who was the guy working on the comm skip with upnp?

[18:01:17]

wagnerrp:

but it seems like it would be more versatile to move it into its own table

[18:01:21]

sphery:

yeah, I may leave that one for later... just get the initial support in then figure out how we want to handle multi-device playback UI-wise

[18:01:22]

** wagnerrp points at Beirdo **

[18:01:35]

[R]:

that's what i thought

[18:01:42]

[R]:

was that just him talking... or is there a ticket for it?

[18:02:00]

sphery:

the hard part would be finding some UI to get the user to specify the right video for each device

[18:02:06]

sphery:

users would want it to happen automatically

[18:02:08]

wagnerrp:

ticket, patch, and commit yet?

[18:02:25]

iamlindoro:

ticket and patch, but against an ancient version, no commit

[18:02:31]

iamlindoro:

apparently some serious issues with it ATM

[18:02:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: presumably they would be using some external user job to create the new version for that device

[18:02:56]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Playback Profiles/Playback Groups

[18:03:01]

iamlindoro:

(IMO)

[18:03:02]

wagnerrp:

the user job could add a tag indicating its for a certain or muliple devices

[18:03:29]

iamlindoro:

Recording Profiles should be expanded to add multifile protocols, and playback profiles could be expanded to autoselect the right file profile

[18:03:55]

sphery:

iamlindoro: but playback groups are applied on a per-recording basis (or can be chosen using a hack of a regex title match, IIRC--but that's still per recording)

[18:04:01]

iamlindoro:

And for "advanced" scenarios, "Play..." in the context menu could provide a list of all stored files for a given item

[18:04:11]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Thus, playback profiles

[18:04:16]

sphery:

oh

[18:04:22]

sphery:

playback profile groups, then :)

[18:04:36]

sphery:

yeah, those 2 have far-too-similar names

[18:04:41]

wagnerrp:

well that would be for internal access, im wondering about external

[18:04:57]

sphery:

yeah, wouldn't help upnp guys

[18:05:06]

wagnerrp:

i suppose you could just have the upnp server open up each recording into a menu of the available versions

[18:05:14]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: could add a arg to getfile/getrecording to indicate which transcode profile

[18:05:18]

wagnerrp:

that would be the easiest for now

[18:05:31]

sphery:

still, that's not required for the initial, and--as wagnerrp mentioned--it's likely to just need a new table that links an id to a host, so can be added easily after we convert to using the new stuff

[18:05:34]

iamlindoro:

right, or sort recordings/etc. into a submenu for each stored profile

[18:05:51]

iamlindoro:

ie MythTV->Recordings->HD->MyRecording

[18:06:13]

sphery:

My main concern is getting it working with the one client I'll use for playback

[18:06:26]

sphery:

which seems to be a client that fewer and fewer people are using...

[18:06:26]

iamlindoro:

presumably, MythFrontend ;)

[18:06:29]

sphery:

exactly

[18:07:01]

iamlindoro:

Well Why use MythFrontend when all of its functionality can be replicated in Bash?

[18:07:03]

wagnerrp:

why would you want to run mythfrontend, when youve got all these tiny little hardware decoders with crummy UIs???

[18:07:17]

sphery:

I'm just a dinosaur that way

[18:07:37]

sphery:

I have no interest in watching my TV on my 3.5" phone screen

[18:07:45]

sphery:

I'm a jerk

[18:07:59]

wagnerrp:

get with the times, big tvs are a passing fad

[18:08:02]

iamlindoro:

nice work, grandpa

[18:08:05]

sphery:

those young 'uns and their crazy little screens

[18:08:09]

wagnerrp:

smaller == better

[18:08:54]

sphery:

I saw a commercial for a phone that puts "High definition cinema in the palm of your hand"

[18:09:03]

sphery:

they even drew the frame around it...

[18:09:07]

sphery:

so it must be better

[18:09:25]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I saw a commercial for an android phone, advertising how it can be used as a mobile wifi hotspot

[18:09:37]

iamlindoro:

and this glowy orb expanded around her and all the people around her started using her phone as wifi

[18:09:42]

iamlindoro:

and I thought to myself

[18:09:50]

iamlindoro:

WHY??? That is a BAD THING!

[18:09:51]

sphery:

(btw, I saw the commercial at the movie theater when watching Inception--because, of course, my MythTV player of choice skips commercials)

[18:11:07]

sphery:

iamlindoro: bad? but how? It's utopian.

[18:11:17]

iamlindoro:

Wifi just wants to be free

[18:11:22]

sphery:

heh

[18:11:42]

sphery:

but also wants to be unregulated--with all other wireless communications

[18:11:50]

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[18:13:54]

iamlindoro:

I am going to have to go back and re-rip all my Blu-rays as full BDMV folders once we've got SGs all polished up... Necessary to get the text labels for audio tracks, subtitles, etc., plus it will motivate me to look at the included Metadata from the discs

[18:13:55]

sphery:

heh, RSS headline, "NAND flash will fall to $1 a megabyte this year" (has since been corrected to "$1 a gigabyte")

[18:15:47]

gbee:

that's some correction

[18:16:59]

iamlindoro:

gbee: So I have about five BDMV structures I've been using for testing/decryption/etc. but none withe contents in the META dir... have about 50 discs, though, so I'm sure I'll find some somewhere

[18:17:13]

iamlindoro:

Ratatouille has subdirs for each language, with nothing in them, that was odd

[18:17:31]

gbee:

iamlindoro: just wait until some unsuspecting punter lands a six figure phone bill :)

[18:17:42]

iamlindoro:

heh

[18:18:01]

[R]:

has anyone with an hdpvr upgraded to the new version? is it worth it?

[18:18:26]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: how does mythvideo handle hashes for VIDEO_TS folders?

[18:18:35]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: NULL (so, unsupported)

[18:18:52]

iamlindoro:

I suppose I could hash the IFO file, but that's for another day

[18:18:57]

gbee:

iamlindoro: interesting, I only have two boxsets, Band of Brothers and the Bourne trilogy, plus one other title, all of them have the artwork

[18:19:12]

wagnerrp:

and when you do that, is that a folder named VIDEO_TS within another folder of the movie title?

[18:19:22]

iamlindoro:

gbee: I did see it on "Top Gun" on the PS3 the other day when testing multi-angle, so that one minimally must have it

[18:19:23]

wagnerrp:

or is it just a folder with a valid DVD structure

[18:19:29]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: The former

[18:19:39]

wagnerrp:

ok thanks

[18:19:39]

iamlindoro:

so Star Wars/VIDEO_TS

[18:19:46]

iamlindoro:

gets added as "Star Wars"

[18:19:56]

sphery:

wow, you can sue over anything: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/line . . . xzz0x8Zt4AJb

[18:19:58]

iamlindoro:

likewise Star Wars/BDMV

[18:20:01]

wagnerrp:

right now, the handling of that stuff in the bindings is completely broken

[18:20:07]

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[18:20:23]

gbee:

sphery: especially in the US :)

[18:20:24]

wagnerrp:

but i havent been too concerned about it since the bindings only claim to support SGs

[18:20:44]

wagnerrp:

i need to at least filter it out on the scans though

[18:20:51]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yeah, scanning now fixed in MythVideo + SGs + VIDEO_TS/BDMV, and support for playback on the way

[18:21:24]

gbee:

of course it doesn't mean you'll actually win, but you can waste the other parties time and cost them a lot of money in the process

[18:21:51]

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[18:22:31]

gbee:

iamlindoro: I realised I hadn't checked 'Moon' but it does also include the artwork so from a very small sample that's a 100% hit rate

[18:22:52]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Yeah, I am sure it's more common than not now, many/most of my discs are several years old

[18:23:02]

iamlindoro:

(thus all of them being AACS only)

[18:23:18]

gbee:

not that this artwork is _really_ exiting, it's a single image and not terribly high res, but it may have it's uses

[18:23:42]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Yeah, would really like to get it parsed in MythThemedMenu, and can probably find *some* way to use it in MythVideo

[18:23:45]

gbee:

curiously enough mine are all AACS too, but only the one is a recent release

[18:23:49]

wagnerrp:

playback for... 0.24?

[18:23:55]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yes

[18:24:13]

wagnerrp:

well then i guess ill just implement them properly then

[18:24:26]

iamlindoro:

Already working in unencrypted scenarios, but patch needs cleanup, and the minimal amount of work to add libmythbluray support needs to be done too

[18:24:33]

iamlindoro:

(patch not my own)

[18:24:38]

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[18:24:44]

iamlindoro:

But yes, will be there for .24 (woo hoo!)

[18:24:50]

iamlindoro:

and then for .25 we can drop local support ;)

[18:25:05]

iamlindoro:

and nuke ~8 more settings in MFE

[18:25:06]

gbee:

aww, we can't drop it in 0.24?

[18:25:12]

wagnerrp:

local support? whats that?

[18:25:30]

iamlindoro:

gbee: Well, all it would take is the DB update to add the SG from the local setting and update the records, so it's doable

[18:25:36]

Beirdo:

you mean non-SG dirs in MythVideo?

[18:25:37]

iamlindoro:

just figured it might be mildly unpopular

[18:25:48]

** Beirdo hands iamlindoro the button to nuke it :) **

[18:26:02]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i say if ISO/VIDEO_TS support is in, just make the necessary code in the schema update to forcefully migrate users over

[18:26:18]

gbee:

iamlindoro: that's my thought, and maintaining local support even after we've removed the last hurdle to storage groups just causes confusion

[18:26:23]

iamlindoro:

Only unhandled scenario is... what about users who don't have the videos accessible from their backend?

[18:26:40]

iamlindoro:

I mean, we could just fail the DB update if they don't

[18:26:43]

gbee:

NFS

[18:26:43]

iamlindoro:

but still

[18:26:44]

wagnerrp:

throw a warning, and make the update fail

[18:26:48]

Beirdo:

the migration could be rocky if you yank it out right now

[18:26:55]

gbee:

oh right, I see

[18:27:03]

iamlindoro:

The migration won't get any easier or harder if we remove it now or four months from now

[18:27:12]

wagnerrp:

weve been telling people its on the horizon

[18:27:18]

Beirdo:

true, and do people really listen anyways?

[18:27:20]

wagnerrp:

for near a year now

[18:27:54]

Beirdo:

just hoping to reduce the whining a *touch*, but that may be just impossible anyways

[18:27:54]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, I figure if we don't do the DB update (and thus don't allow access to MythVideo) if the BE doesn't have access to the files, and add a notifier to go mount them on the BE, that might do the trick

[18:27:57]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:28:41]

gbee:

Beirdo: vast majority of users have never read one of the mailing lists, they don't hang out in IRC or read the wiki unless they have to fix a bug, so no many don't listen but most were never around to get the message anyway

[18:28:49]

wagnerrp:

you could remove the settings to use that stuff from the frontends

[18:28:53]

wagnerrp:

so they cant set that up new

[18:28:53]

iamlindoro:

Well, cart before the horse, let's get ISO via SG in and then swe'll figure it out

[18:29:06]

gbee:

the only way to push most users onto storage groups is to force the issue

[18:29:10]

Beirdo:

aye

[18:29:11]

wagnerrp:

and throw a popup whenever they try to play something without a 'host' value

[18:29:18]

iamlindoro:

But yes, I'd like for it to be gone sooner than later

[18:29:24]

wagnerrp:

allowing them to play it, but warning them to convert to storage groups

[18:29:34]

iamlindoro:

REPENT!

[18:29:37]

gbee:

gently cajouling people is a waste of time

[18:29:38]

wagnerrp:

then rip it out entirely for 0.25

[18:29:46]

Beirdo:

"The end is at hand!"

[18:30:02]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, tend to agree with gbee, we just need to do the conversion, and add a popup saying to go mount it on the BE and then you can have your precious videos back

[18:30:02]

[R]:

Beirdo: did you have a patch for upnp comskip yet?

[18:30:11]

Beirdo:

not finished yet

[18:30:19]

Beirdo:

it may or may not be ready for 0.24

[18:30:27]

[R]:

ah... how is it gonna work?

[18:30:43]

Beirdo:

the current method is to stream the sections of the file

[18:30:54]

Beirdo:

as if it were one contiguous file

[18:31:06]

Beirdo:

the problem being PTS discontinuities

[18:31:07]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: make sure everything is hashed, and then simply not display anything thats not accessed over storage groups?

[18:31:12]

gbee:

it's not exactly hard to sell anyone on the advantages of storage groups

[18:31:21]

[R]:

Beirdo: so if its flagged wrong then oh well type of thing?

[18:31:24]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo: Presumably there's a method to avoid commskip?

[18:31:35]

wagnerrp:

tell them their metadata is safe, and then need to set up storage groups and rescan

[18:31:41]

Beirdo:

iamlindoro: yeah, it will be a separate menu item

[18:31:45]

iamlindoro:

cool

[18:31:46]

Beirdo:

All Recordings...

[18:31:52]

Beirdo:

then Commercial Free

[18:31:59]

gbee:

the only problem I see is that parents may keep videos not suitable for the kiddies on their bedroom frontend but nowhere else, they'll just have to learn to use parental controls

[18:32:22]

iamlindoro:

gbee: yep, and since .24 MythVideo supports ratings again, and auto-parental from rating...

[18:32:35]

Beirdo:

renumbering PTS on the fly may be required, and that's just joyful

[18:32:41]

wagnerrp:

gbee: but content isnt filtered based off whether the frontend could access it

[18:32:46]

gbee:

and hope that the kids aren't smart enough to disable/bypass the parental controls which is child's play ...

[18:32:50]

wagnerrp:

which means the titles and metadata for those shows would be visible

[18:33:07]

wagnerrp:

and if a scan was ever run from those frontends, it would wipe out the inaccessible content

[18:33:08]

gbee:

iamlindoro: only US ratings :(

[18:33:26]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: erm, hrm? Content *is* filtered by parental level

[18:33:30]

iamlindoro:

titls/metadta not visible

[18:33:41]

iamlindoro:

At least in MythVideo

[18:33:49]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: if they werent filtering already, and were just storing it locally to prevent access

[18:33:54]

iamlindoro:

Each frontend can have a default parental level, and only taht level and below is displayed

[18:34:21]

iamlindoro:

yeah, they'll need to do maintenance if they are doing screwy things like that

[18:34:40]

iamlindoro:

We just can't account for everything, though, can just do our best

[18:34:45]

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[18:35:19]

iamlindoro:

Especially for data which is recreateable (and which will be backed up)

[18:37:20]

iamlindoro:

I will say that I am much happier being in the situation of actually talking about how to migrate the data than being stuck between the two worlds as we have been for ~18 months

[18:38:43]

gbee:

wagnerrp: yeah that's a good point, didn't consider it

[18:41:10]

wagnerrp:

do individual category pages really need to inform users how to edit them?

[18:43:16]

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[18:53:13]

jarle:

So, I have used the frontend to edit a recording, which tool should I use to export a show with the highest quality possible, while cutting away the commercials? Is nuvexport the correct tool, or should I look for something else?

[18:53:40]

wagnerrp:

use mythtranscode, set it for lossless

[18:53:48]

iamlindoro:

(assuming source material is MPEG-@)

[18:53:50]

iamlindoro:

MPEG-2

[18:54:34]

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[18:55:05]

Beirdo:

MPEG-@$%#@!

[18:55:17]

Azelphur:

Hmm, this makes no sense. I'm setting up mythtv frontend on my shiny new laptop, Looking at the log from MythFrontend, it finds the server backend via upnp, tries to connect, then says it was unable to connect to the database, access denied.

[18:55:23]

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[18:55:29]

Azelphur:

but, the database has host "%" user mythtv allowed

[18:55:41]

jarle:

iamlindoro: source is h.264

[18:56:10]

iamlindoro:

jarle: Then you will need to transcode lossily-- if you want to use the commercial list, then yes, use NUVExport's MP4 exporter

[18:56:22]

iamlindoro:

that is, the cut list, not the commercial list

[18:57:04]

iamlindoro:

Give everything some ridiculously high bitrate (I usually use 8000 or so) and when prompted, set the output resolution to the same as the source

[18:57:15]

iamlindoro:

Then go get some sleep until it's done

[18:58:27]

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[18:58:31]

sphery:

Azelphur: security PIN needs to be set/changed/specified?

[18:58:41]

Azelphur:

should all just be 0000

[18:58:46]

Azelphur:

my netbook connected with zero config

[18:58:54]

Azelphur:

but my new laptop ain't having it :(

[18:58:56]

sphery:

Azelphur: also, note that if you have 127.0.0.1 or localhost /anywhere/ in your MythTV config, you can't add new hosts

[18:58:57]

jarle:

iamlindoro: I'll give it a try, right now nuvexport's export options all say (disabled) at the end for some reason...

[18:59:08]

Azelphur:

sphery: netbook works :)

[18:59:12]

sphery:

Azelphur: you'll have to change your MythTV config to use real routable addresses/hostnames

[18:59:14]

iamlindoro:

sounds like you are missing the required deps

[18:59:15]

Azelphur:

and my PC works too

[18:59:20]

Azelphur:

it does

[18:59:28]

Azelphur:

My mythtv network consists of 3+ computers :p

[18:59:52]

sphery:

then it's almost definitely either a mysql permissions issue or a config.xml/mysql.txt issue

[19:00:06]

sphery:

and note that just because you have % host specified, doesn't mean that's what MySQL is using

[19:00:19]

sphery:

it always uses the /most/-specific grant

[19:00:39]

Azelphur:

there are 2 entries with a mythtv user, one of them is localhost only

[19:00:45]

Azelphur:

but they both have the same password hash

[19:02:36]

sphery:

well, if it's not mysql grants, then it's the db host/username/password specified (mysql.txt/config.xml or whatever you type in the prompt) or lack of MySQL support on the system (i.e. missing Qt-MySQL drivers). See your log files.

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[19:08:27]

Azelphur:

confirmed that my laptop does have access if it uses the right login information, so that's one thing eliminated :p

[19:08:54]

Azelphur:

ah, this might be the problem

[19:08:59]

Azelphur:

mysql.txt dbhostname=localhost :)

[19:09:05]

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[19:10:25]

Azelphur:

actually it can't be that

[19:10:36]

Azelphur:

the mythfrontend log clearly states, "Testing network connectivity to 192.168.1.9

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[19:14:03]

justinh:

it could be that

[19:14:22]

justinh:

all that's in mysql.txt is the details of how to find the database

[19:14:36]

Azelphur:

do I have to restart the backend for mysql.txt to refresh?

[19:14:42]

justinh:

eh?

[19:14:55]

justinh:

mysql.txt just tells mythtv how to find the database

[19:15:26]

justinh:

check you can log in to the database from the new machine using mysql -u mythtv -pTHEPASSWORD -h hostname/IP

[19:15:27]

Azelphur:

yea

[19:15:35]

Azelphur:

yes, I can login like that

[19:16:08]

justinh:

so in mythtv-setup are both IP addresses set to the LAN IP of the backend machine?

[19:17:23]

Azelphur:

yes

[19:17:29]

Azelphur:

Local Backend and Master backend are both 192.168.1.9

[19:17:32]

Azelphur:

in mythtv-setup > general

[19:17:55]

justinh:

right, so a backend restart after setting those would make sure mythbackend is bound to the LAN IP

[19:18:25]

Azelphur:

they have been those for months, but I'll backend restart anyway

[19:18:29]

Azelphur:

the only thing I changed was mysql.txt

[19:19:09]

justinh:

how about if you delete or rename config.xml & mysql.txt on the new machine?

[19:21:06]

Azelphur:

I deleted .mythtv and had it recreate mysql.txt

[19:23:06]

Azelphur:

I think I've found the problem

[19:23:12]

Azelphur:

MythTV is generating mysql.txt

[19:23:18]

Azelphur:

but in the password, it puts an l instead of an I

[19:24:07]

Azelphur:

yup, fixed mysql.txt on the laptop and it's working now

[19:24:33]

Azelphur:

At first it didn't detect the backend via upnp (?) then I must have typed an l instead of an I in the settings

[19:24:38]

Azelphur:

problem solved \o/

[19:26:42]

iamlindoro:

And only 24 minutes after sphery having said so ;)

[19:26:51]

Azelphur:

haha

[19:26:56]

Azelphur:

I did check mysql.txt on the /server/

[19:27:03]

Azelphur:

I didn't click onto the client having one too.

[19:27:16]

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[19:28:04]

** iamlindoro optimistically waits for Azelphur's thanks to those who gave him the answer some time ago ;) **

[19:28:10]

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[19:28:12]

justinh:

I need to get the motivation to sort out some more of my theme popup screens

[19:28:19]

Azelphur:

sphery: thanks :p

[19:29:08]

wagnerrp:

odd... libmythupnp/httprequest.cpp is failing for me

[19:29:35]

justinh:

darn, getting on for 9pm.. tantrum time

[19:29:47]

wagnerrp:

"'strtoll' was not declared in this scope", but its in stdlib.h, which is included at the top

[19:30:14]

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[19:34:14]

sphery:

bsd?

[19:35:01]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[19:35:12]

wagnerrp:

but the changelogs dont show anything that might explain what the problems

[19:35:13]

wagnerrp:

is

[19:36:04]

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[19:37:33]

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[19:38:08]

sphery:

wonder if the C++ 98 change is related...

[19:39:01]

wagnerrp:

i do remember something with the compile defines causing issues several months ago

[19:39:10]

wagnerrp:

but it was something2001something

[19:39:21]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/25590 is the change I'm thinking of

[19:39:56]

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[19:40:05]

skd5aner:

ummmm, -commits has flipped the "Log" and "Modified" sections, what changed?

[19:40:14]

skd5aner:

log used to be below modified, now it's opposite

[19:40:20]

skd5aner:

not that it matters, just curios

[19:40:25]

skd5aner:

curious

[19:40:28]

sphery:

just a change to make it easier to read the message for commits that touch a lot of files

[19:40:36]

sphery:

janneg just made a patch for trac

[19:41:21]

skd5aner:

well, change it back!

[19:41:25]

skd5aner:

j/k ;)

[19:41:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: the last time, it was some define related to POSIX2001

[19:42:04]

wagnerrp:

not C specifically

[19:42:05]

sphery:

skd5aner: but think of all the scrolling it will save

[19:42:23]

skd5aner:

eh, I didn't mind the scolling... actually, the modified files told me half the story

[19:42:24]

wagnerrp:

BSD is probably a lot more strict about adhering to that stuff than linux

[19:42:27]

wagnerrp:

so it caused problems

[19:42:32]

sphery:

well strtoll is a C99 function. Previously, we were using C99, now we're using C++98, so if it's doing something different on BSD...

[19:42:58]

skd5aner:

now, I have to read the log, see what changed, then relate it to what part of the code was changed... sometimes the comments aren't specific to the component

[19:43:07]

wagnerrp:

huh

[19:43:25]

wagnerrp:

i see some files being built -std=c99, others built -std=c++98

[19:43:26]

skd5aner:

honestly though, I really don't care either way – just noticed the change :)

[19:43:48]

sphery:

right, C++ files are built with -std=c++98 and C files with -std=c99

[19:43:55]

wagnerrp:

ah

[19:44:12]

sphery:

and libmythupnp/httprequest.cpp would be C++

[19:44:42]

sphery:

for strtoll: Feature Test Macro Requirements for glibc (see feature_test_macros(7)): strtoll(): XOPEN_SOURCE >= 600 || _BSD_SOURCE || _SVID_SOURCE || _ISOC99_SOURCE; or cc -std=c99

[19:44:54]

sphery:

since we're no longer doing cc -std=c99

[19:45:05]

sphery:

that said, I have no idea what the right fix would be :)

[19:45:11]

sphery:

or even if that's related :)

[19:45:19]

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[19:45:30]

wagnerrp:

well ill figure something out, and ping janneg

[19:46:16]

sphery:

in my stdlib.h, it's wrapped in: #if defined __USE_ISOC99 || (defined __GLIBC_HAVE_LONG_LONG && defined __USE_MISC) ... #endif /* ISO C99 or GCC and use MISC. */

[19:47:28]

wagnerrp:

seems i need __ISO_C_VISIBLE >= 1999 and __LONG_LONG_SUPPORTED

[19:48:18]

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[19:53:28]

justinh:

hrm. trying to build an xmltv snapshot & it's failing make test. don't spose there's an xmltv channel

[19:55:22]

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[19:56:49]

wagnerrp:

seems every other day, theres another active thread about some form of legal issue or another

[19:57:35]

iamlindoro:

Some people think if they kvetch enough about it, something will change-- or if they deny that something is fact/law enough, that it will become true

[19:57:55]

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[20:00:56]

sphery:

heh, buy.com has the FlashForward alarm clock on sale for 50% off if anyone wants to be attacked and shot by 3 armed men on the way home... http://www.buy.com/prod/nanda-clkyc-clocky-mo . . . 8927861.html

[20:01:46]

wagnerrp:

sphery: why are we strictly specifying standards anyway?

[20:01:58]

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[20:02:12]

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[20:02:26]

sphery:

wagnerrp: no idea

[20:02:54]

iamlindoro:

Suspect it it something to do with us using ffmpeg's Makefile after the next sync?

[20:03:02]

sphery:

that's quite possible

[20:03:25]

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[20:04:29]

sphery:

so, which legal thread?

[20:04:39]

sphery:

HDHR Prime?

[20:04:51]

wagnerrp:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=334912 claims freebsd is technically correct for breaking compile on strtoll with c++98

[20:05:05]

wagnerrp:

c++98 does not define a longlong type

[20:05:45]

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[20:05:53]

sphery:

yeah, I'm not surprised based on the header/man page

[20:06:20]

sphery:

I'd ask janneg--I have a feeling he will know the right fix off the top of his head :)

[20:06:38]

wagnerrp:

bump to 2003?

[20:07:09]

sphery:

I doubt we're 2003-compliant

[20:07:25]

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[20:09:19]

wagnerrp:

janneg is ... german?

[20:09:33]

wagnerrp:

ill probably have to wait until morning to before he gets in

[20:09:44]

sphery:

if not, somewhere around there (DE/BE/...)

[20:10:43]

justinh:

gah. date::manip problems.. still!

[20:11:02]

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[20:11:48]

** wagnerrp fixed all his date problems, or so he thinks **

[20:12:24]

justinh:

very tempted to dump every single package of anything perl related & just get the lot myself

[20:12:44]

justinh:

all the joys of using gentoo, without actually using gentoo

[20:12:48]

gbee:

justinh: yeah I just grabbed the latest from CPAN

[20:13:29]

gbee:

justinh: tv_grab_uk_rt?

[20:13:35]

justinh:

see if I can remember how to use CPAN

[20:14:05]

justinh:

yeah uk_rt

[20:14:26]

gbee:

IMHO that was something of a screw up, they should have reverted the offending change

[20:15:07]

sphery:

wagnerrp: just for fun, try moving the #include "compat.h" above the #include <stdlib.h> in libs/libmythupnp/httprequest.cpp

[20:15:49]

shadash:

I'm going bonkers thinking about what the new ps3 hack can do

[20:16:21]

wagnerrp:

shadash: not significantly more than the old virtualized linux interface

[20:16:33]

wagnerrp:

sphery: i compiled that one file non-strict

[20:16:55]

justinh:

gbee: on the distros' part or xmltv?

[20:16:56]

shadash:

3d access

[20:16:57]

wagnerrp:

ill try that once this is done and it either works, or fails horribly on linking

[20:17:02]

wagnerrp:

shadash: so?

[20:17:06]

sphery:

anyone else find it insulting that "running Linux" is used as the code for "stealing games" with those hacks?

[20:17:25]

shadash:

I don't even play games

[20:17:29]

wagnerrp:

didnt they already have an accelerated MESA interface running on the SPEs?

[20:17:35]

wagnerrp:

good enough to run our UI anyway

[20:17:37]

shadash:

no not stable

[20:17:50]

wagnerrp:

and this hack is?

[20:17:54]

sphery:

shadash: yeah, not you specifically, but for the vast majority of people who were upset with the removal and want the hack

[20:18:08]

gbee:

justinh: xmltv afaik, but it happened a few weeks ago and I don't remember the detail

[20:18:28]

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[20:18:37]

justinh:

gbee: there've been problems related to date::manip for a while on ubuntu

[20:18:43]

justinh:

since 10.04 was released

[20:18:53]

justinh:

like uk_rt wouldn't work *at* *all*

[20:19:01]

gbee:

ah

[20:19:05]

shadash:

I just think the Ps3 is going to end up the perfect little system to do everything you want. now that the sony chains are off

[20:19:15]

justinh:

then I tried using a nightly build, which relied on a newer version of Date::Manip

[20:19:23]

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[20:19:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: it's the USB dongle : http://www.reuters.com/article/idUS236800490120100819

[20:19:42]

iamlindoro:

If by little you mean "huge, loud, and power hungry" and by perfect you mean "difficult to install anything on, with no library support to speak of"

[20:19:43]

iamlindoro:

then yeah

[20:19:49]

justinh:

well that was easy now I CPAN'd a newer Date::Manip

[20:19:54]

justinh:

man, sometimes I hate perl

[20:19:54]

sphery:

iamlindoro: ++

[20:20:17]

justinh:

s/perl/computers/everything

[20:21:05]

wagnerrp:

sphery: no, i was referring to the allusion that the SPE MESA stuff was unstable, but this dongle hack was somehow considered stable for general use

[20:21:14]

sphery:

oh

[20:22:07]

wagnerrp:

sphery: compat.h is already included by httprequest.cpp

[20:22:41]

sphery:

wagnerrp: right, but it's include /after/ stdlib.h

[20:22:42]

gbee:

wagnerrp: yeah, sphery was suggesting reversing the order of those includes

[20:22:55]

wagnerrp:

oh

[20:23:08]

sphery:

but I don't know that it would help

[20:23:15]

gbee:

so that the contrib.h defines take precedence

[20:23:16]

wagnerrp:

so have compat.h at the top?

[20:23:37]

wagnerrp:

no difference

[20:23:47]

sphery:

seems, though, it would define BSD, but that probably won't help--you'd actually need to handle it specifically

[20:23:56]

sphery:

I was thinking it might define BSD_SOURCE, but it doesn't

[20:26:08]

justinh:

what's with radiotimes' episode numbers ending up as subtitles anyway?

[20:28:58]

gbee:

sounds like a parsing bug? I've not seen it

[20:29:07]

Beirdo:

wtf?

[20:29:22]

Beirdo:

I ordered a toslink cable on Amazon.com

[20:29:46]

Beirdo:

it left Phoenix, AZ -> Albuquerque, NM -> Louisville, KY

[20:29:56]

Beirdo:

you are going the wrong direction!

[20:30:50]

Beirdo:

I'm in Seattle, WA, you freaks!

[20:30:52]

sphery:

Beirdo: You've never heard of the Great L navigation style?

[20:31:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:31:19]

sphery:

it's one that competes with Great Circle navigation

[20:31:23]

Beirdo:

I guess they are delivering it to wagnerrp first

[20:31:31]

high-rez:

SEA TOWN!!!!

[20:31:59]

Beirdo:

they should at least give me air miles for the extra legs of the trip :)

[20:32:07]

kormoc:

Seattle, AW?

[20:32:18]

** kormoc wonders what country AW might be **

[20:32:32]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:32:35]

gbee:

afaik it doesn't map to anything

[20:32:52]

Beirdo:

in Africa, if anywhere, likely

[20:33:09]

gbee:

oh no, it's Aruba

[20:33:18]

Beirdo:

heh

[20:33:37]

Beirdo:

OK. Don't send my fiber cable to Aruba... without me

[20:33:37]

** gbee spent a lot of time lately with the ISO 3166 codes **

[20:35:12]

Beirdo:

heh, true

[20:35:12]

sphery:

ah, yeah, the summer gbee fell in love with ISO 3166...

[20:35:39]

gbee:

heh

[20:37:08]

sphery:

It must have been those magical nights in FR

[20:37:36]

gbee:

aww, the number of tickets has started to rise again

[20:37:54]

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[20:38:30]

sphery:

perhaps a strategically-planned server crash could help get that number down to 0?

[20:39:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[20:40:12]

Beirdo:

maybe fixing bugs would do a good job :)

[20:40:19]

sphery:

but that's so much more work

[20:40:27]

Beirdo:

I dunno, maybe I'm just on crack :)

[20:40:36]

iamlindoro:

With everything assigned, my hope is that the BSP will get us under 250

[20:40:56]

Beirdo:

here's hoping

[20:41:11]

Beirdo:

I plan on squashing some more myself this weekend

[20:41:14]

iamlindoro:

Was 640 when I started ruthlessly closing bugs a few months ago

[20:41:51]

Beirdo:

hopefully not many (if any) nasty bugs got closed mistakenly :)

[20:42:04]

Beirdo:

just the stupid stuff that wontfix :)

[20:42:40]

Beirdo:

and the metric buttload of invalid

[20:42:40]

sphery:

well, if a 4-yr-old untouched nasty bug exists, opening a new ticket so we actually /know/ it's still a problem isn't a bad thing

[20:42:57]

Beirdo:

true

[20:43:23]

gbee:

only if the BSQ goes better than the last one

[20:43:29]

gbee:

BSP

[20:43:44]

Beirdo:

well, we can always hope

[20:43:46]

sphery:

heh, and here I thought you were redesigning the big scheduler query

[20:43:54]

gbee:

I think my mind was on the BUSQ

[20:44:42]

Beirdo:

is the signal monitor available at recording time?

[20:44:57]

wagnerrp:

big ugly scheduler query?

[20:45:05]

kormoc:

ugh

[20:45:10]

kormoc:

I still have patches to that I want in

[20:45:13]

Beirdo:

I had a recording (OTA) last night where it recorded unlocked channel crap

[20:45:20]

kormoc:

When's the freeze again?

[20:45:26]

Beirdo:

unless it was JUST locked, but still crap

[20:45:45]

Beirdo:

kormoc: officially, Sept 1, but it sounds like maybe changing to Sept 15

[20:46:06]

Beirdo:

not been fully decided that I could see

[20:46:32]

kormoc:

guess I should get busy soon

[20:46:43]

Beirdo:

yeah, running outta days either way

[20:48:31]

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[20:49:28]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: don't want to flood the other channel, my intentions were not to be snooty...

[20:50:02]

skd5aner:

or provacative etc, so I appologize ifthey came off that way...

[20:50:15]

iamlindoro:

ok, it's fine

[20:50:44]

iamlindoro:

But I was trying to propose the only solution that doesn't carry with it unacceptable breakage of Myth's real purpose, being a DVR

[20:50:50]

skd5aner:

Honestly, I was just curious if that was in his sights as part of the work he was doing – if the answer was "No", I understand

[20:51:07]

iamlindoro:

It is not within the scope of that branch, but something we have discussed as a goal for 1.0

[20:55:02]

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[21:00:38]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: hows that buildbot coming along?

[21:01:19]

Beirdo:

we need to get that going rsn

[21:01:36]

wagnerrp:

im about to write up a simple little script to run a bunch of commands in batch

[21:01:43]

Beirdo:

I have one

[21:01:47]

wagnerrp:

svn up; configure; make; make install

[21:01:47]

Beirdo:

it's called "make"

[21:01:49]

Beirdo:

:)

[21:01:50]

wagnerrp:

email me on error

[21:01:59]

wagnerrp:

just wondering if you had something like that ready to go

[21:02:02]

wagnerrp:

have it run nightly

[21:02:17]

Beirdo:

not completely, no, but I'm not far off in the way I compile

[21:03:54]

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[21:08:52]

justinh:

whee updated tv_grab_uk_rt, ran mythfilldatabase & bang, the soap subtitle numbers are gone

[21:24:59]

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[21:25:52]

abarbaccia:

i get a lot of "GetNextFreeFrame() has served a busy frame. Dropping." in my output (using VDPAU) and usually a significant bit of studdering comes along with it. has anyone else experienced this before?

[21:27:41]

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[21:27:52]

kormoc:

abarbaccia, turn off your deinterlacers?

[21:28:12]

abarbaccia:

kormoc: still get studdering. i can double check again though

[21:28:30]

wagnerrp:

sphery: heres a good one

[21:28:43]

wagnerrp:

someone on the mythtvtalk forum, a thread about clearing out old settings for unused frontends

[21:29:04]

sphery:

uggghhh

[21:29:06]

wagnerrp:

suggesting a "delete from storagegroup where hostname='theoneyouwanttodelete';"

[21:29:20]

sphery:

yeah, because those 8kiB on disk are /so/ useful

[21:29:43]

wagnerrp:

no no no... a few hundred bytes at the most

[21:29:53]

sphery:

actually, I'm thinking more like 8kiB

[21:30:01]

sphery:

based on my testing with a blank DB

[21:30:20]

sphery:

settings is tiny

[21:30:29]

sphery:

especially when looking at the settings for a single host

[21:30:33]

wagnerrp:

look again

[21:30:37]

wagnerrp:

'delete from storagegroup'

[21:30:47]

wagnerrp:

thats like 335 bytes per entry

[21:32:35]

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[21:32:40]

gbee:

storagegroup? Not settings?

[21:32:40]

kormoc:

woo!

[21:32:48]

wagnerrp:

yes, storagegroup

[21:32:49]

Azelphur:

hehe, Just took a fun photo, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/August . . . 22.23.08.jpg

[21:32:52]

Azelphur:

clearly needs more MythTV :)

[21:32:59]

** gbee blinks **

[21:33:09]

wagnerrp:

clearly someone who has no idea WTF theyre talking about giving advice about tinkering in the database

[21:33:16]

kormoc:

gbee, the setting storage group of course!

[21:34:36]

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[21:37:55]

Azelphur:

no comments on my nesting Mythtv's? :p

[21:38:14]

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[21:39:25]

wagnerrp:

VMs or GTFO

[21:39:34]

wagnerrp:

:)

[21:39:46]

Azelphur:

lol

[21:40:00]

wagnerrp:

clearly recursive VMs is the proper way to run mythfrontend

[21:40:08]

** wagnerrp grumbles **

[21:40:17]

Azelphur:

haha

[21:40:18]

wagnerrp:

monoprice stuff supposed to be here today

[21:40:25]

wagnerrp:

nothing at the door

[21:40:44]

kormoc:

if it's truly recursive VMs, would it ever stop?

[21:41:07]

wagnerrp:

no one knows

[21:41:35]

wagnerrp:

how many licks does it take to get to the center of a recursive VM?

[21:42:51]

justinh:

re old settings it's not the space they take up – it's just chaff in the db people would rather clear up

[21:43:13]

wagnerrp:

justinh: but unless youre going to be creating a new machine at that old hostname

[21:43:15]

wagnerrp:

theyre inert

[21:43:17]

wagnerrp:

they do nothing

[21:43:27]

kormoc:

meh

[21:43:31]

justinh:

well, they get in the way when folks go peeking ;)

[21:43:36]

kormoc:

I admit, I clean my DB and all that jazz

[21:43:51]

kormoc:

that said, I also take full responsibility if I break things

[21:43:57]

wagnerrp:

it would be better if the frontend had some tool to reset stuff for the local hostname

[21:44:07]

kormoc:

folks who are unable/unwilling to do the latter shouldn't do the former

[21:44:23]

wagnerrp:

the only problem with that old cruft sitting around is for the frontend remote control in mythweb and the python bindings

[21:44:36]

wagnerrp:

since it tests each listed NetworkControlPort in the database

[21:44:50]

wagnerrp:

a bunch of dead entries are going to cause a long wait for those connections to time out

[21:45:08]

wagnerrp:

and ive never once heard someone complain about that

[21:47:18]

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[21:48:38]

abarbaccia:

kormoc: so, after 5 days of fussing i finally got it working. i tried everything – changing memory, shared memory size, deinterlacers, lower resolutions – could not get the stuttering to end

[21:48:49]

abarbaccia:

i went and added a setting... vdpaubuffersize=32

[21:49:03]

abarbaccia:

and it worked perfectly – on VDPAU Normal

[21:49:34]

abarbaccia:

so, i wonder what the default setting is for 0.23 / 0.24 because maybe this should be altered

[21:49:35]

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[21:51:14]

abarbaccia:

kormoc: sorry if you wrote back – i dropped off

[21:53:01]

iamlindoro:

He did not

[21:53:27]

abarbaccia:

kk. gee i am so happy

[21:53:41]

iamlindoro:

trunk dynamically allocates buffers IIRC

[21:53:45]

abarbaccia:

finally have vdpau working and my TV output on the new 1080p monitor looks incredible

[21:53:57]

abarbaccia:

well, that makes me happy then :)

[21:54:13]

abarbaccia:

i could not figure this problem out for the life of me. i was pulling hairs

[21:54:17]

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[22:02:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, storagegroup... I keep misreading stuff...

[22:03:47]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and, yeah, I plan to include an ability to reset any setting or keybinding to its default

[22:04:23]

kormoc:

abarbaccia, if you toggled down to 16 bit colors 'to speed it up', toggle it back up, there's no performance gain and it really degrades h264 video quality (I'm assuming this is a hdpvr)

[22:04:40]

sphery:

wagnerrp: and http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6064 tries to put the save/delete/copy settings into mythfrontend, but the UI is pre-mythui

[22:04:53]

abarbaccia:

kormoc: no, this is just BD rips

[22:05:08]

abarbaccia:

but now with the shaders upped to 32

[22:05:10]

abarbaccia:

it works like a char

[22:05:10]

kormoc:

same thing likely applies to vc-1

[22:05:11]

abarbaccia:

m

[22:08:28]

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[22:19:59]

iamlindoro:

s/shaders/buffers/

[22:21:04]

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[22:26:43]

Azelphur:

We need to get MythTV going on Android.

[22:26:50]

Azelphur:

Then I can add another entry to my nested MythTV setup :D

[22:27:11]

skd5aner:

"we"?

[22:27:14]

skd5aner:

:)

[22:27:19]

Azelphur:

by we I mean "not me"

[22:27:27]

Azelphur:

or, I can provide moral support.

[22:27:42]

Azelphur:

cheering, smiling faces, maybe even musical backing.

[22:27:43]

Azelphur:

:D

[22:28:05]

Beirdo:

supply enough pizza and beer, and you never know what might happen

[22:28:06]

skd5aner:

Hey, I just got my first android device last week – so I'm all for it, but I know that like you – I can only be a cheerleader at best

[22:28:25]

Azelphur:

hehe

[22:29:26]

[R]:

what the hell does a upnp device need with pppoe?

[22:29:34]

sphery:

I love how people talk about android like it's one thing :)

[22:29:41]

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[22:30:37]

Azelphur:

me being stupid and all, and android being a Linux based device, is it not possible to "Just build MythTV and it's dependencies" ?

[22:30:49]

[R]:

sure... ti should only take like 5 minutes

[22:30:52]

Azelphur:

I could see it not working on the very old phones, but the newer ones with the dual core snapdragons could take it :p

[22:31:07]

[R]:

Azelphur: linux based is nto the same as a linux dist

[22:31:25]

Azelphur:

yea I know that

[22:31:27]

sphery:

I thought Android was some small portion of a device's capabilities exposed via a Java^H^H^H^HDalvik virtual machine running on top of a locked-down Linux fork?

[22:31:43]

sphery:

but then again, I'm a bit jaded, so...

[22:31:52]

Azelphur:

Oh just realized a major flaw in my master plan :p

[22:32:00]

Azelphur:

no X11 for starts, lol

[22:32:40]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it can be done somehow, maybe not a direct version of Myth

[22:32:48]

Beirdo:

a UPnP client for instance

[22:33:19]

sphery:

yeah

[22:33:21]

Azelphur:

what about libmyth?

[22:33:31]

Azelphur:

maybe an android frontend to libmyth?

[22:33:32]

sphery:

if it's just UPnP, don't need it

[22:33:41]

Azelphur:

I see

[22:33:49]

Beirdo:

making it work with UPnP would be a better plan, I think

[22:33:53]

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[22:34:04]

Beirdo:

I'm wondering if there are any good UPnP clients for the iPad

[22:35:15]

Beirdo:

that might be a reasonable use for an iPad... about the size of touchscreen I want in the kitchen

[22:35:46]

skd5aner:

sphery: you work for apple or microsoft?

[22:35:48]

skd5aner:

;)

[22:36:05]

sphery:

skd5aner: heh, no, I support open source and Freedom

[22:36:10]

sphery:

thus my hatred of a pretender

[22:36:18]

Beirdo:

pffft

[22:36:25]

skd5aner:

what about "a lot more open than my nearest competitors"? ;)

[22:36:37]

sphery:

that's true, but don't call it "Open Source"

[22:36:47]

sphery:

maybe "Opener Source"

[22:36:49]

skd5aner:

well, I certainly didn't... but I know many think of it hat way

[22:36:55]

sphery:

or "Kind-of-open Source"

[22:37:02]

sphery:

yeah, it's Google that's doing that

[22:37:04]

skd5aner:

I call it "open platform"

[22:37:12]

Beirdo:

certainly more open source than iPhone

[22:37:13]

skd5aner:

which is quite a bit of a ways from open source

[22:37:52]

skd5aner:

The platform is still controlled and proprietary, but at least the concept of what you can do on top of it is fairly open

[22:38:37]

sphery:

but the fact that vendors customize it to work for a specific hardware device, then Google updates the platform, but the users of the older devices are reliant upon their vendors to choose to update it for their phones (which the vendors often fail to do) means that Android is just a bunch of forked semi-open distros with an unlicensed/license-violating Java VM on top where developer can throw little applets

[22:38:57]

skd5aner:

yea... that does suck a bit

[22:39:01]

sphery:

in other words, it's about like RIM's OS or even symbian or ...

[22:39:06]

skd5aner:

I've been following a lot of the verizon droid stuff

[22:39:09]

sphery:

it's still "out of reach"

[22:39:18]

skd5aner:

and moto's customizations for android

[22:39:19]

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[22:39:20]

sphery:

but, again, I'm /very/ jaded

[22:39:21]

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[22:39:46]

sphery:

I may be spending too much time at the church of RMS

[22:40:05]

skd5aner:

basically there's only 2 phones out there with vanilla android – the Nexus One (of course) and the original droid

[22:40:13]

elmojo:

abarbaccia: did you get the "busy frame" while playing back an MKV video?

[22:40:13]

skd5aner:

everything else, is as you said, a fork and customization

[22:40:26]

sphery:

oh, but they are vanilla android plus google's proprietary parts

[22:40:35]

skd5aner:

you can't get another motorola android device without getting their stupid MOTOBLUR rom that sits on top of it

[22:41:19]

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[22:41:32]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[22:41:34]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea, maybe a bit – but you can load whatever you want on the Nexus One if you chose to do so...

[22:42:00]

sphery:

yeah, that may be... I just know that one guy was distributing the parts of Android that Google doesn't and got sued by Google

[22:42:12]

skd5aner:

It would be nice if some of these Android TVs would come out with the ability to tinker with the OS... but yea right...

[22:42:13]

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[22:43:10]

sphery:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28opera . . . sed_firmware mentiones it

[22:43:14]

skd5aner:

Imagine, no "mythbox" ;) just a TV with myth built directly in... ooooooooh.... ahhhhhhhhhh

[22:44:00]

skd5aner:

sphery: yea, which is what you can do on some android phones... the Droid has a huge following because it has an unlocked bootloader and you can load custom firmwares and roms

[22:44:39]

skd5aner:

Moto has said they'll never do that in the future and have encrypted it, and the community has had little success in truely opening it up – like on the Droid Milestone, which was the international version of the droid

[22:44:46]

skd5aner:

and the Droid X, Droid 2 etc

[22:44:54]

skd5aner:

I'm not fully sure about the HTC phones

[22:45:02]

skd5aner:

pretty sure they're fairly locked down too

[22:45:40]

sphery:

I really liked the Openmoko model, but it was doomed to fail because of Android

[22:45:45]

skd5aner:

Open definitely closes quite a bit once it gets to the consumer's hands

[22:45:53]

sphery:

i.e. Google said, "Hey, we can control the whole market because we have the money."

[22:46:13]

skd5aner:

and the market wanted *some* answer to the iphone

[22:46:18]

sphery:

yeah

[22:46:34]

sphery:

though having seen both UI's, the Android one is a bit clunky, IMHO

[22:46:51]

skd5aner:

but many of the careers and manufactures didn't want to take the risk trying to develop something independantly and segment the market further

[22:47:00]

skd5aner:

google could look horizontally and sell something to everyone

[22:47:18]

skd5aner:

basically create an ecosystem and alliance across vendors

[22:47:19]

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[22:47:23]

sphery:

yeah, but I think Android itself is quite segmented

[22:47:27]

sphery:

even just by versions

[22:47:38]

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[22:47:54]

skd5aner:

well, you've got 3 entities with 3 different goals...

[22:48:01]

skd5aner:

Google, the device manufacture, and the carrier

[22:48:03]

justinh:

oof. from twitter: "Sad how one person can make a developer community toxic. Wonder if they realise that's why some people stop contributing. "

[22:49:47]

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[22:49:49]

justinh:

and yeah it had the #mythtv hashtag. sad. why can't we all just agree on wanting to make the project better?

[22:50:41]

sphery:

skd5aner: exactly--and that necessarily gets in the way

[22:50:53]

skd5aner:

yup

[22:51:35]

justinh:

doesn't help when somebody comes along with really nice UI ideas & patents the fricking lot of em

[22:52:03]

sphery:

yeah, that too--patents were a large part of the problem that Openmoko faced

[22:52:07]

skd5aner:

you know... I don't know... there's things about the UI that aren't as nice, but...

[22:52:27]

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[22:52:31]

skd5aner:

patents as a weapon.... BOOM! YOU'RE DEAD!

[22:52:46]

sphery:

anymore Openmoko (post collapse of the business that was making the hardware) is basically a 1983 GNU project--i.e. just starting out trying to redo everything on its own

[22:53:24]

iamlindoro:

justinh, Heh, given the one and only thing that person has ever contributed was a couple-line patch to a long-dead python script, that I myself committed after it was neglected for years, I think we'll be fine

[22:53:27]

sphery:

and the truly open hardware we almost got is a pipe dream

[22:53:44]

iamlindoro:

And yes, I'm sure that tweet refers to me :)

[22:54:08]

iamlindoro:

At this point I think it's comic

[22:55:07]

iamlindoro:

I pushed for the four month release schedule, came up with and ran the theme competition, handled all the prizes, dealt with years old tickets, did all my own work on myth, provided some direction in getting us organized for the first time in forever, answer requests to talk publicly about the project...

[22:55:16]

iamlindoro:

yeah, *I* definitely make Myth toxic alright

[22:55:52]

wagnerrp:

tweet?

[22:55:54]

iamlindoro:

not to mention pushing to reduce the number of settings, write a couple of themes, etc.

[22:58:22]

Beirdo:

sigh

[22:58:42]

Beirdo:

I think someone's taking things too personally... On both sides of a tweet

[22:59:13]

wagnerrp:

i think someone's name is backwards

[22:59:41]

Beirdo:

tweet THIS :)

[23:00:05]

iamlindoro:

Beirdo, Sorry, but I think I've done more than enough work around here to be entitled to he offended at that

[23:00:25]

Beirdo:

yes, I don't disagree with you :)

[23:00:41]

Beirdo:

but... let it go, and things will be better, hopefully :)

[23:00:59]

** iamlindoro shakes his head and goes off to do more useful myth things **

[23:01:03]

Beirdo:

and you've definitely done a lot :)

[23:01:12]

Beirdo:

here, have a mythbeer :)

[23:03:07]

** skd5aner needs to start learning about the HDHR prime to get a realistic expectations of what it may and may not be capable of doing beyond what I already have **

[23:03:42]

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[23:04:44]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: do you use firewire capture?

[23:04:57]

skd5aner:

Tried a few times, it never worked

[23:05:02]

skd5aner:

looks bad

[23:05:19]

janneg:

wagnerrp: yes, german. and there was good reason why I enabled -std=c++98 except that is was working on two different linux distros

[23:05:22]

skd5aner:

I mean... the odds look bad that if firewire doesn't work, neither will the rpime

[23:05:24]

wagnerrp:

never worked because you simply couldnt get the hardware to behave? or because there was nothign unencrypted to capture

[23:06:08]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: First time I tried (3 years ago), I couldn't get anything unencrypted...

[23:06:12]

janneg:

I wanted to check if g++ complains about variable length arrays with -std=c++98

[23:06:56]

skd5aner:

I've since moved, and I'm sure I'm on a different head-end (same provider, but different viewing area 40 miles away), and when I tried a year ago, I couldn't get it to work

[23:07:03]

skd5aner:

as in, the hardware

[23:07:13]

skd5aner:

I gave up, wasn't worth the time

[23:07:23]

skd5aner:

not sure what is and isn't 5c now

[23:07:48]

janneg:

and -std=c++98 includes the amendments

[23:07:55]

skd5aner:

it's TWC, so I would guess everything just as before

[23:08:04]

skd5aner:

I couldn't even get the local stations at the time

[23:08:36]

skd5aner:

and they've since changed the OS on the SA3250HD STB, so the maintenance mode screens don't clearly show the encryption status like they did before

[23:08:50]

skd5aner:

before, I could see exactly what each channel was flagged for

[23:10:10]

skd5aner:

mainenance mode = diagnostic (the word was slipping my mind)

[23:10:28]

janneg:

wagnerrp: strtoll should be available with _POSIX_SOURCE=200112

[23:10:32]

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[23:11:38]

wagnerrp:

janneg: thats not included in my compile line

[23:12:27]

wagnerrp:

got removed from freebsd in r23856

[23:13:28]

Beirdo:

mmmm, strtoll :)

[23:13:55]

** Beirdo is having his first coffee of the day... at 4:15pm **

[23:18:25]

abqjp:

high-rez: actually, reproducing your OSD showing the wrong info will not be trivial for me. My HD-3000 and HDHomeRun share a SchedulesDirect line-up, so I don't have an easy way to jump from one card to the other just by entering a channel number. Can you check to see if you have the same problem by switching inputs instead of by choosing a channel number?

[23:21:57]

high-rez:

abqjp: Will do.

[23:24:07]

abqjp:

high-rez: If you are right about it showing the previous channel on that card, you probably will not see the symptom. I wonder how I can see the problem without adding another line-up.

[23:25:10]

sphery:

same lineup and same video source?

[23:25:28]

sphery:

if they're different video sources, you could just delete a channel from a video source temporarily

[23:26:09]

abqjp:

same source, but I could temporarily segment them, to test.

[23:26:57]

sphery:

yeah, you'd need different sources--but no need for another lineup

[23:27:26]

sphery:

still annoying to have to create a new source, scan for channels, set xmltvids, populate, delete some channel all to test, though :(

[23:28:31]

Beirdo:

I need a way to tell myth that several channels are the same channel across lineups

[23:28:52]

wagnerrp:

channam and channum

[23:28:53]

Beirdo:

Pretty sure xris pointed me to a script for that a while back, but I lost track of it ;)

[23:29:19]

Beirdo:

for instance, 4 on DirecTV = 4_1 OTA

[23:29:27]

Beirdo:

they are the precisely same channel

[23:29:42]

Beirdo:

having them twice in the listings is kinda funky :)

[23:29:54]

Beirdo:

works though

[23:29:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:30:29]

Beirdo:

actually, that channel's there three times

[23:30:34]

Beirdo:

4, 4, 4_1

[23:30:51]

Beirdo:

as DirecTV has HD and non HD version mapped to the same channel number

[23:31:17]

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[23:34:10]

Beirdo:

http://www.beirdo.ca/~gjhurlbu/test/mythweb_screenshot.png

[23:34:15]

Beirdo:

as you can see.

[23:34:31]

Beirdo:

same thing on 5, 5, 5_1

[23:34:33]

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[23:35:18]

wagnerrp:

thats a lie

[23:35:24]

wagnerrp:

4_2 isnt KOMO

[23:35:35]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:35:44]

Beirdo:

OTA, it's KOMO-SD

[23:35:57]

Beirdo:

but you are right, it's NOT actually KOMO

[23:35:57]

[R]:

oh man... there is this one radio station i listen to... with 80s/90s/today... and my friend says its K-HOMO... he's a jerk

[23:36:00]

wagnerrp:

shows up as THIS-SD around here

[23:36:07]

Beirdo:

it is THIS

[23:36:09]

Beirdo:

:)

[23:36:17]

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[23:36:41]

Beirdo:

I'm gonna tweak those too, but the triple listing for what is essentially the same thing is kinda funky :)

[23:37:08]

Beirdo:

the first is KOMO in SD on DirecTV, then in HD on DirecTV, then HD OTA

[23:37:22]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i thought if channum and channame were identical, mythtv would consider them the same channel

[23:37:35]

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[23:37:39]

Beirdo:

well, I'll check the channums

[23:37:43]

awalls:

THIS OTA runs really old lame movies here

[23:37:44]

Beirdo:

errr, channames

[23:38:05]

Beirdo:

the nums don't match as 4 != 4_1

[23:38:15]

wagnerrp:

awalls: yeah, was commenting about that yesterday

[23:38:17]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[23:38:24]

Beirdo:

KOMO, KOMODT, KOMO-DT

[23:38:29]

Beirdo:

fugh

[23:38:41]

wagnerrp:

they ran an old (and horrible) version of Last of the Mohicans

[23:38:47]

Beirdo:

and then KOMO-SD (which is actually THIS-SD)

[23:39:02]

awalls:

I guess some of the John Wayne flicks arer ok

[23:39:30]

awalls:

But I'm not a big fan

[23:39:35]

wagnerrp:

it looked like about as good as some highschool productions could pull off

[23:40:05]

wagnerrp:

i saw someone get killed by an arrow from a half drawn bow

[23:40:15]

awalls:

Wagnerrp: what year was the film

[23:40:22]

wagnerrp:

1960

[23:40:28]

awalls:

Ugh

[23:40:30]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I'll see what I gotta do to make this work, wish I could re-locate xris' script

[23:41:56]

Beirdo:

ah, there it is

[23:42:09]

Beirdo:

under scte65scan... sql to be more precise

[23:43:36]

** awalls doesn't like his cellphone keyboard **

[23:44:36]

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[23:44:56]

sphery:

Beirdo: same callsign says it's the same channel for scheduling purposes (i.e. "this channel" rules) and when it's same callsign and same channel number it means it should be displayed only once in the guide

[23:45:23]

sphery:

Beirdo: and no 2 channels should have the same channel number if they're not "identical" from a user standpoint--i.e. channel number is how you tell Live TV to change directly to a channel

[23:45:37]

Beirdo:

right

[23:45:44]

sphery:

channels also shouldn't have the same channel number if they don't have the same callsign

[23:46:08]

Beirdo:

the problem is... channel numbers aren't identical

[23:46:11]

sphery:

awalls: I record tons of this movies :)

[23:46:12]

Beirdo:

4 != 4_1

[23:46:40]

Beirdo:

but yet, it's the same channel. Or is that a different column again?

[23:46:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: but channum and callsign are both user-editable data--in the channel editor in mythtv-setup, MythWeb, or mythfrontend (the last of which isn't working in trunk)

[23:47:27]

Beirdo:

right

[23:47:43]

Beirdo:

so I'd change it from 4_1 to 4, and let it be?

[23:47:44]

awalls:

Sphery: quantity vs quality ?

[23:47:46]

sphery:

so just change one so it's the same as the other if you don't want it appearing multiple times in the guide

[23:47:49]

sphery:

right

[23:48:04]

Beirdo:

the multiplex data is separate anyways.

[23:48:06]

Beirdo:

right

[23:48:15]

sphery:

awalls: heh, or "lacking other sources of movies"??? So, possible over "out of reach"

[23:48:33]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, if you change channum on an ATSC channel to just plain 4, it won't affect tuning

[23:48:44]

sphery:

tuning is freqid plus atsc_major/minor

[23:48:47]

Beirdo:

right

[23:49:15]

Beirdo:

K. It's good to talk it through so I don't just mess it up :)

[23:49:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:49:31]

sphery:

yeah, always a good idea to make sure you're going the right way before changing data :)

[23:49:36]

awalls:

Sphery: netflix on the Wii has obviated most of my need for recording movies

[23:49:37]

Beirdo:

5_2 there isn't KING either. It's Universal Sports

[23:49:50]

sphery:

we have a lot of users who may have discovered such--even if unwilling to admit it :)

[23:50:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:50:16]

Beirdo:

well, I'll be backing up my db before messing with that stuff, I think

[23:50:30]

sphery:

awalls: yeah, I haven't yet felt that I could get enough benefit from netflix--I'm so far behind on watching recordings that by the time I would get to watching movies, they're old enough to air OTA :)

[23:50:45]

awalls:

:}

[23:50:46]

Beirdo:

netflix streaming on my TV++

[23:50:48]

sphery:

then I get the "FCC-clean" version, too

[23:50:57]

sphery:

none of that annoying language or nudity to worry about

[23:51:11]

Beirdo:

why bother then? :)

[23:51:36]

awalls:

Some of the indie films on netflix are pretty good

[23:51:38]

sphery:

instead, people are good--they love their mothers and are quacks (even if they're not doctors)

[23:51:52]

sphery:

i.e. "You mother lover"

[23:51:53]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:51:57]

Beirdo:

melon farmers

[23:51:59]

awalls:

They won't go OTA

[23:52:02]

sphery:

or "Don't be such a quack."

[23:52:13]

Beirdo:

Don't be such a kitten.

[23:52:36]

wagnerrp:

adios mister falcon

[23:52:39]

sphery:

sometimes it's more interesting to see what words they choose to substitute than seeing the movie itself

[23:53:01]

sphery:

and it's great when they censor the audio, but then leave the captions untouched--and in their full "obscenity"

[23:53:05]

awalls:

"You're an apple!"?

[23:53:12]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[23:53:24]

wagnerrp:

whats that one from?

[23:53:27]

Beirdo:

sphery: yeah, the CC can always be fun

[23:53:33]

awalls:

Oh wait that's you tube

[23:53:46]

awalls:

Annoying Orange

[23:54:10]

wagnerrp:

i am a banana

[23:54:30]

Beirdo:

aaaah, Metallica

[23:54:48]

Beirdo:

it seems some coworkers thought today would be a good day for some 80s Karaoke

[23:55:01]

sphery:

speaking of which, I'm trying to decide whether to eat one of the bananas or save them all for banana bread

[23:55:04]

Beirdo:

someone just destroyed Bon Jovi – Livin On A Prayer

[23:55:15]

sphery:

heh

[23:55:16]

Beirdo:

and I mean *destroyed*

[23:55:31]

wagnerrp:

you should do karaoke on call of cthulhu

[23:55:36]

Beirdo:

hhehee

[23:55:52]

Beirdo:

I'd rather go with Ted Nugent – Kiss My Ass

[23:55:55]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:56:07]

high-rez:

Beirdo: 4_1 is just 4 on m system. :) Asking the wife to type in 4#1 or 5#1 wasn't cutting it. :)

[23:56:08]

Beirdo:

a fine song when you're in the mood

[23:56:18]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:56:20]

wagnerrp:

now now, watch the language

[23:56:25]

sphery:

high-rez: but you can skip the #, right?

[23:56:27]

high-rez:

(i came into that paroticular discussion late I know)

[23:56:28]

sphery:

i.e. 41

[23:56:30]

Beirdo:

that was the song name

[23:56:37]

sphery:

(not if you have a 41, also, though)

[23:56:44]

Beirdo:

Kiss My Asp?

[23:56:45]

Beirdo:

heh

[23:56:45]

high-rez:

sphery: Can you ? I didn't know that...

[23:57:14]

wagnerrp:

no! you need to do...

[23:57:16]

wagnerrp:

....

[23:57:23]

sphery:

it compares ignoring separators, too

[23:57:24]

wagnerrp:

... the theme song from mighty mouse!

[23:57:26]

sphery:

but you need uniqueness

[23:57:35]

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[23:57:38]

sphery:

Here I come to save the day!

[23:57:39]

high-rez:

Hmm. Interesting.

[23:57:43]

Beirdo:

hahaha

[23:57:55]

Tomasu (Tomasu!~moose@S010600195b863efb.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:57:58]

wagnerrp:

really ham up that one line too

[23:58:00]

Beirdo:

Limp Bizkit – Break Stuff

[23:58:01]

high-rez:

For the longest time I had the hash key assigned and it was pissing the wife off to have to use it.

[23:58:05]

sphery:

high-rez: still, though, 4 is easier to type than 41

[23:58:18]

sphery:

yeah, I never did--waste of a remote button :)

[23:58:24]

Beirdo:

hash key for me is delete

[23:58:41]

sphery:

I don't have delete mapped--mainly for those times when I sit on the remote or whatever

[23:58:54]

sphery:

and I mean accidentally, of course

[23:58:58]

Beirdo:

I should make the asterisk do the separator

[23:59:06]

high-rez:

sphery: Yeah, I'll keep 4,5,7,9,16,22 :) I have the _2 and _3 versions if soemoen really wants em they can just flip through the chans for em.

[23:59:10]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:59:17]

Beirdo:

I don't get 16 cleanly

[23:59:17]

high-rez:

Beirdo: What remote?

[23:59:22]

Beirdo:

no KONG for me

[23:59:34]

Beirdo:

MCE remote

[23:59:37]

high-rez:

KONG is great for the news when the national news is on.

[23:59:42]

high-rez:

(on 5)

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