Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, August 12th, 2010, 00:01 UTC

[00:01:36]

Beirdo:

here, let me help with the spam, and assign my own new tickets... to me.

[00:02:02]

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[00:03:37]

Beirdo:

be back later.

[00:05:08]

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[00:17:30]

sphery:

wagnerrp: any idea what MARK_EDIT_MODE is?

[00:17:55]

wagnerrp:

got some context?

[00:18:32]

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[00:18:36]

sphery:

programtypes – http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . mtypes.h#L44

[00:18:50]

sphery:

or for that matter MARK_UPDATED_CUT

[00:19:14]

sphery:

was just hoping you figured it out in your great "re-learning of all things mythtv" when you implemented the python bindings

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[00:20:07]

sphery:

I'm considering using a new mark type (a temporary mark), but didn't know if one of those was meant for what I'm trying to do

[00:20:27]

sphery:

only reference I see to them is the toString() that gives the string representation

[00:20:59]

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[00:21:05]

sphery:

oh, wait, updated cut is used by mythtranscode

[00:22:04]

wagnerrp:

nope, i just set them as defines in the bindings, and left it at that

[00:22:14]

wagnerrp:

the only things i use directly are comm/cut_start/end

[00:22:47]

wagnerrp:

looking at that, whats the difference between GOP_START and KEYFRAME

[00:23:05]

sphery:

hmmm... I may co-opt the MARK_EDIT_MODE one

[00:23:09]

wagnerrp:

i thought the two were the same thing

[00:23:40]

sphery:

good question

[00:23:58]

wagnerrp:

is EDIT_MODE to indicate that someone is already in the edit mode?

[00:24:06]

wagnerrp:

a boolean of sorts

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[00:24:34]

wagnerrp:

i know if ive got a frontend that crashed in edit mode, the next time i go in there, it will tell me something else is already in there and ask what i want to do

[00:24:42]

sphery:

if so, it doesn't seem to be in use anywhere

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[00:25:11]

sphery:

literally appears 2x--once in the .h for its definition and once in .cpp for the toString()

[00:25:23]

sphery:

maybe OBE?

[00:25:49]

sphery:

if nothing else, it will work for proof of concept, then if I go with this approach, I'll find out if I should use it or add a new one

[00:26:47]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i know youve been asking for h264 clipping for some time, even if it only cut at the nearest keyframe

[00:27:12]

wagnerrp:

is that still desired? i was considering whipping one up for a handful of ATSC recordings i have that wont transcode

[00:27:17]

** sphery anxiously awaits the link to the patch wagnerrp sneakily created... **

[00:27:41]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Sure, GOP would be fine

[00:27:46]

wagnerrp:

no no... just a python script clipping manually at the bytes listed in the seektable

[00:27:51]

sphery:

ah, cool

[00:27:57]

wagnerrp:

and then reformulate the cuts to match

[00:28:07]

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[00:28:15]

wagnerrp:

so the cuts are clipping out a few seconds here and there, rather than several minutes

[00:28:38]

wagnerrp:

i know youve got something on the wiki using projectx, but i didnt know what exactly that did

[00:28:39]

sphery:

rather than "nearest" keyframe, though, I'd recommend next keyframe after cut start and previous keyframe before cut end

[00:28:43]

wagnerrp:

didnt get a response when i asked a while back

[00:28:59]

wagnerrp:

well yeah, i would cut inside the cut area

[00:29:11]

wagnerrp:

nearest without loss

[00:29:11]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, it basically did similar, just fed GOP-level cutlist to avidemux

[00:29:14]

sphery:

that way, you're likely to get the show + some garbage instead of missing some bit

[00:29:19]

sphery:

cool

[00:29:26]

iamlindoro:

avidemux was the weak link at that time, and I haven't tried in a long while

[00:30:18]

wagnerrp:

ive got some glitchy ATSC recordings, and the transcoder fails hard on them, 'unrecoverable error'

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sphery:

I have some non-glitchy recordings that the transcoder is failing on with unrecoverable error

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[00:32:56]

sphery:

the broadcaster changed the stream and it's making mythtranscode very unhappy

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[00:34:22]

sphery:

haven't tried with trunk, lately, though

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[00:42:22]

mattwj2002:

hi guys

[00:43:14]

mattwj2002:

anyone have a 2TB they just want to give me?

[00:43:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Mattwj2002, no. Sorry

[00:43:32]

mattwj2002:

dang it

[00:43:40]

mattwj2002:

I figured it was worth a try :P

[00:43:47]

mattwj2002:

I need more space!

[00:43:58]

mattwj2002:

400 GB isn't cutting it

[00:43:59]

mattwj2002:

:)

[00:44:06]

mattwj2002:

not with HD

[00:44:16]

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[00:45:51]

wagnerrp:

so buy more space

[00:46:10]

wagnerrp:

1TBs are readily down to $60, 2TBs can be found for as low as $100

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[00:47:52]

mattwj2002:

yeah I should

[00:47:53]

mattwj2002:

:)

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[00:51:27]

mattwj2002:

so HD is about 6 GB per hour

[00:51:37]

iamlindoro:

wildly variable

[00:51:40]

iamlindoro:

2–8

[00:52:07]

mattwj2002:

well I am averaging 6 GB on my system pretty regularly

[00:52:08]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a terabyte today.

[00:52:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Mattwj2002, do you delete things?

[00:52:30]

mattwj2002:

I just set it up last night

[00:52:34]

mattwj2002:

so no not yet

[00:52:35]

mattwj2002:

:P

[00:52:52]

iamlindoro:

mattwj2002, everything depends on the amount of motion on the screen, encoding options, what's going on on the other channels sharing the multiplex, efficacy of cable co cherry pickers, etc.

[00:53:05]

mattwj2002:

so 2000 (roughly) / 6 = 333 hours of programming

[00:53:06]

mattwj2002:

:D

[00:53:09]

iamlindoro:

unless you are using an HD-PVR with a constant bitrate, in which case it will always be the same

[00:53:29]

mattwj2002:

almost 2 weeks worth O_o

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[00:53:42]

mattwj2002:

13.8 days

[00:53:51]

mattwj2002:

that is a lot of tv!

[00:54:22]

mattwj2002:

put I am also using mythexport too so that eats up some space

[00:54:25]

mattwj2002:

*but

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[00:57:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

How do you set the bitrate on the HDPVR anyway?

[00:57:19]

wagnerrp:

recording profile

[00:57:31]

Beirdo:

sphery: if you do create a new mark type, please let me know :)

[00:57:42]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: may as well just make a FRWOP resolution

[00:57:44]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, what is good though? I never touched it, so it is probably on default.

[00:57:46]

Beirdo:

it will likely conflict with the new one I have

[00:58:07]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: most people set it to CBR at the maximum their hardware can handle decoding

[00:58:32]

mattwj2002:

yeah my is default

[00:58:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

How would you benchmark that?

[00:58:33]

mattwj2002:

:)

[00:58:50]

wagnerrp:

the VBR routines in the ASIC are screwy, and actually lead to much lower bitrate and quality than CBR 13.5

[00:58:53]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, defaultis aroung 4.5 Mbit... with the device being capable of 13.5

[00:59:03]

mattwj2002:

I really need to try my ipod touch videos

[00:59:04]

mattwj2002:

:D

[00:59:07]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: what hardware are you going to use to decode?

[00:59:08]

iamlindoro:

personally found the defaults frightful-- 13.5 looks lovely though :)

[00:59:31]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Well, my frontends are all low power AMD processors with Nvidia cards supporting VDPAU.

[00:59:46]

wagnerrp:

if youre using VDPAU, crank it up as high as you want

[01:00:00]

wagnerrp:

disk usage is your only concern

[01:00:02]

sphery:

Beirdo: it would just be temporary--a placeholder (and--haven't decided for sure--might not even be written to the DB)

[01:00:07]

Beirdo:

ahh

[01:00:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I need to clean up my disk space anyway.

[01:00:11]

Beirdo:

I've used 32

[01:00:13]

sphery:

but I will mention if I do

[01:00:19]

Beirdo:

but if I need to move it, I will

[01:00:19]

Beirdo:

:)

[01:00:29]

sphery:

yeah, I was thinking -1 since it's in the range of edit ones and unused

[01:00:29]

Beirdo:

MARK_FRAME_RATE :)

[01:00:48]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

So, I see 4500, 9000, and 13500

[01:00:50]

sphery:

(unless someone used it as a flag to say uninit'ed :)

[01:00:55]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I should crank them all up to 13.5?

[01:01:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp (and Beirdo): speaking of flag types and toString(), is there a reason to add or not to add the new types to toString()? Wev

[01:01:36]

sphery:

'e had several additoins that weren't added

[01:02:00]

iamlindoro:

heh

[01:02:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:02:20]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Yes or no on the cranking everything to 13.5?

[01:02:23]

Beirdo:

there are some prints that use that table

[01:02:27]

wagnerrp:

isnt toString only used for transmission over backend protocol?

[01:02:33]

Beirdo:

nope

[01:02:41]

Beirdo:

it's used for logging in a few places too

[01:02:43]

sphery:

I wasn't sure where toString() was used at all

[01:02:49]

iamlindoro:

GadgetWisdomGuru, I do

[01:02:50]

Beirdo:

mainly used for the backend though

[01:03:02]

sphery:

figured it's quicker to just ask you guys than to try to figure it all out myself :)

[01:03:14]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: if you dont mind the space, your hardware wont have any problem with that bitrate

[01:03:19]

wagnerrp:

although commflagging will take a while

[01:03:31]

Beirdo:

hehe, there's no good reason i can think of (other than forgetting) to not put in the text name of the new mark type

[01:03:39]

wagnerrp:

eew... toString in the logs?

[01:03:46]

Beirdo:

yes

[01:03:55]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have 500GB free

[01:03:58]

Beirdo:

for instance, in the UPnP stuff I'm working on

[01:03:58]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I think I can handle it

[01:04:01]

wagnerrp:

thats a good way to make something very ugly very fast

[01:04:22]

Beirdo:

if it's NOT an END where an END should be, I verbose it

[01:04:25]

sphery:

well, I've done my job... I mentioned an idea and I'll let someone else do the work, now. THat's the FOSS way.

[01:04:39]

Beirdo:

likewise if it's not a BEGIN where a BEGIN should be... log it

[01:04:57]

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[01:05:06]

Beirdo:

and I actually log what IS there

[01:05:14]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Okay.

[01:05:21]

Beirdo:

but anyways :)

[01:05:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

So every dial is now set to maximum.

[01:05:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Low, Medium, and High Resolution

[01:05:34]

sphery:

Beirdo: what kind of not begin where it should be begin type issues are you seeing?

[01:05:38]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Let's see how my 10PM recording does

[01:05:43]

sphery:

are these comm marks or cut marks?

[01:05:46]

Beirdo:

sphery: both

[01:05:55]

Beirdo:

if things are marked poorly, I wanna know

[01:06:01]

sphery:

hmmm... yeah

[01:06:04]

Beirdo:

it uses cut marks first

[01:06:13]

Beirdo:

if they aren't there, it uses commflag

[01:06:14]

sphery:

the new editor that markk wrote cleans it up properly, so we shouldn't see any new ones created

[01:06:20]

Beirdo:

it shouldn't ever see this

[01:06:35]

sphery:

of course, right now, the editor is kind of unusable, so we won't see many new ones until it's fixed (but I'm working that issue :)

[01:06:38]

Beirdo:

but it something's borked, I want it logged, and in a way that is useful

[01:06:45]

sphery:

agreed

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[01:07:02]

Beirdo:

hence the toString() not the number :)

[01:07:12]

sphery:

and really putting in the value of the mark is worse than the name of the mark--as both ways it's debugging info (and not UI)

[01:07:23]

wagnerrp:

getting close, only 650 left to go

[01:07:32]

sphery:

and if it's just the value, then you have to look up the meaning

[01:07:37]

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Beirdo:

yeah, exactly

[01:07:52]

Beirdo:

logs are meant to be human-usable

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Beirdo:

holy trac spew

[01:09:16]

sphery:

yeah, you can use them for mulch or for making boards or for making poles

[01:09:50]

Beirdo:

hehe, or to roll over the neighbor's dog

[01:10:42]

sphery:

heh, yeah, or for running on top of a water body

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Beirdo:

heh

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[01:15:09]

wagnerrp:

agh... last night i thought of a bunch of crap to add to the bindings, and now i cant remember what it was

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wagnerrp:

oh, date/time conversions

[01:15:38]

wagnerrp:

yeah, those suck

[01:15:44]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:15:50]

Beirdo:

yes, they do

[01:15:51]

wagnerrp:

too many different versions sent through different access paths to the backend

[01:15:57]

wagnerrp:

the database has one format

[01:16:00]

wagnerrp:

the backend sends another format

[01:16:06]

wagnerrp:

the xml interface sends a third

[01:16:39]

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Beirdo:

we should create a task ticket to make things better... :)

[01:17:31]

Beirdo:

or do we have one?

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[01:20:22]

Beirdo:

win 15

[01:20:26]

Beirdo:

fargh

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Beirdo:

iamlindor: thanks again for the hard long triage effort :)

[01:21:59]

Beirdo:

I can't type. iamlindoro ^^

[01:22:07]

Beirdo:

anywho, I'm going home now

[01:22:24]

iamlindoro:

np, had to be done sometime

[01:22:26]

Beirdo:

hopefully, I can whittle down my ticket list some. :)

[01:22:29]

Beirdo:

oh, I agree

[01:22:40]

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[01:22:51]

Beirdo:

I'm sure some are being closed that shouldn't, but such is life.

[01:22:58]

Beirdo:

we can always go "oops" and reopen

[01:23:03]

Beirdo:

or get a new ticket :)

[01:24:05]

Beirdo:

TTYL guys, seeya on the flip side

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[01:36:36]

sphery:

Beirdo: We really need more of a "innocent until proven guilty" approach to bug reports, though. Currently, it seems users expect us to /prove/ there is no bug before closing something. IMHO, if we can't--with the supplied information--reproduce the issue given reasonable effort, it should be closed and the TicketHowTo's "If your ticket gets marked as 'worksforme' or 'invalid' consider this a challenge to improve the bug report." puts the onus ...

[01:36:42]

sphery:

... back on the user (the only one with a vested concern in the alleged bug's being fixed).

[01:36:45]

sphery:

My opinion...

[01:40:14]

iamlindoro:

Some dude just wrote a novel in a ticket... and it adds absolutely nothing

[01:40:15]

iamlindoro:

at all

[01:40:20]

iamlindoro:

I have never seen a comment add less

[01:40:23]

iamlindoro:

while saying so much

[01:44:50]

sphery:

heh, sounds like my posts to the list

[01:45:45]

patdk-lap:

heh

[01:45:59]

patdk-lap:

I'll have to submit a new ticket, with nothing in it but a poem for iamlindoro

[01:46:16]

iamlindoro:

it would need to be a long poem

[01:46:31]

** patdk-lap notes iamlindoro has changes since I was in here a few years ago :) **

[01:46:41]

patdk-lap:

no bitching about irc users, only tickets? :)

[01:46:52]

iamlindoro:

Only because I'm not looking at IRC ;)

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[02:45:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

is robert longfield around?

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[02:53:31]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I see you noticed the slave driver's assignments... ;)

[02:54:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, already knew it was being worked on, and think that the longfield ticket is probably a config issue as I'm sure we'd have had lots of people complaining if auto transcoding was broken unless it's a very recent issue related to something mark or jya have done with the A/V parts.

[02:55:36]

sphery:

yeah, I know that properly configuring auto-transcode is a challenge--involving many switches (for recording rule, host, ... others?)

[02:55:41]

sphery:

so I wouldn't be surprised

[02:56:19]

** wagnerrp seems to have dodged the cracking whip **

[02:56:32]

sphery:

I got off relatively unscathed

[02:56:50]

Beirdo:

omg

[02:57:17]

sphery:

Beirdo: don't worry, iamlindoro said he would come by and delete all those messages for anyone who thought it was a lot

[02:57:31]

Beirdo:

a bash replacement for nuvexport... idiot

[02:57:39]

sphery:

heh, fun

[02:57:43]

wagnerrp:

the sillyname guy?

[02:57:47]

Beirdo:

yup

[02:58:20]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why these people go completely insane with bash

[02:58:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

A bash replacement for nuvexport? What would be the point exactly?

[02:58:38]

wagnerrp:

guy didnt want to learn perl

[02:58:46]

Beirdo:

GadgetWisdomGuru:mental retardation

[02:58:47]

wagnerrp:

and somehow thought thousands of lines of bash was easier

[02:59:06]

Beirdo:

or to just submit patches

[02:59:13]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I remember someone saying a while back that someday nuvexport's functionality would be rolled into myth itself.

[02:59:21]

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[02:59:22]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: last person asking about auto-transcode seems to have been stevieman – http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1/2010-08-11:15:39:00

[02:59:28]

Beirdo:

we would like to

[02:59:33]

sphery:

don't know if he's the same one--though the name seems distinct

[02:59:33]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: ideally, it would be rolled into mythtranscode

[02:59:45]

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[02:59:58]

sphery:

Beirdo: I like when your AST is in my EDT... makes finding quotes much easier

[03:00:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The issue is that few people understand the CLI settings for ffmpeg and by the time you do, they change them

[03:00:36]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, thanks, I couldn't recall the name but rememberd the comment in here.

[03:01:11]

sphery:

y/w... I remembered a comment, too, so I just did a quick grep of the logs :)

[03:01:19]

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[03:01:45]

sphery:

Beirdo needs to get Google to buy out beirdobot logs and then we could really search them

[03:02:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

What do most people use, codec and quality wise to store their cut HD content nowadays?

[03:02:16]

sphery:

then he could use his $347M to pay for a "MythTV code party" on his yacht

[03:02:45]

[R]:

GadgetWisdomGuru: highest bitrate from my hdpvr h264

[03:02:59]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:03:22]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt mind being in someone's posse

[03:03:45]

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[03:03:50]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru, I'd venture to say most folks don't store their HD content

[03:03:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: You can be Griz and I'll be Dot Com

[03:03:57]

kormoc:

watch and delete

[03:04:03]

kormoc:

sphery++

[03:04:20]

[R]:

kormoc: i save my good hd movies

[03:04:20]

wagnerrp:

aww... i wanted zero cool

[03:04:21]

kormoc:

30 rock is so delightful

[03:04:27]

Beirdo:

sphery: I do need to redo the built-in search to use a better tokenizer :)

[03:04:34]

sphery:

I've been missing 30 Rock

[03:04:39]

kormoc:

[R], and I'd venture to say you're in the minority :P

[03:04:47]

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[03:04:56]

Beirdo:

I archive Good Eats

[03:05:01]

Beirdo:

but right now, that's all

[03:05:02]

sphery:

Beirdo: Yeah, I was thinking you had a search, but I never can figure it out, so I do a local grep then try to find the time in your logs :)

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[03:05:08]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:05:09]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Kormoc, then what do people store?

[03:05:22]

Beirdo:

the serach I have now... does complete words only

[03:05:24]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru, I only store unwatched shows, once I watch them, *poof*

[03:05:26]

Beirdo:

not sure what I was smoking

[03:05:30]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

A bunch of you have told me you have these massive drives.

[03:05:33]

sphery:

I delete it all and buy DVDs of anything I want to keep

[03:05:35]

Beirdo:

but I need more

[03:05:46]

[R]:

kormoc: what else am i supposed to do with 2.5tb

[03:05:47]

[R]:

?

[03:05:49]

kormoc:

GadgetWisdomGuru, a few folks store bluray dvd's

[03:06:07]

sphery:

Note, also, that I've never recorded a single episode of my favorite TV show ever

[03:06:10]

kormoc:

[R], lots of useful data? the first quintillion primes?

[03:06:21]

sphery:

Just go straight to DVD for it

[03:06:22]

[R]:

haha

[03:06:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I keep some shows I'm very fond of. The rest I delete.

[03:06:41]

Beirdo:

sphery: was my reply ... curt.. enough?

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[03:07:04]

kormoc:

I'm with sphery, if I like it enough to keep it, I buy it on dvd

[03:07:12]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: I have >7TB full of unwatched recordings (I watch and delete everything)

[03:07:28]

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[03:07:45]

sphery:

Beirdo: which reply? I have a ton of messages to go through in tickets, still

[03:08:14]

Beirdo:

the one about the nuvexport bashifying

[03:08:23]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, I realized for all the stuff I keep around, I haven't gotten around to going back and watching the stuff I stored for later watching

[03:08:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have a whole directory of movies

[03:09:53]

Beirdo:

in -users, of course

[03:10:10]

sphery:

ah, I was looking in the wrong place

[03:10:25]

kormoc:

GDIAF?

[03:11:10]

Beirdo:

hehe, might as well have been

[03:11:11]

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[03:11:23]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: Yeah, that's a big part of the reason I don't see any purpose in archiving anything--because I have too much (and continue to get more) new stuff to watch. Besides, it would be a Title 17 violation for me to archive a broadcast recording permanently, since I live in the US of DRM.

[03:11:47]

sphery:

Beirdo: excellent reply

[03:11:49]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, it is?

[03:11:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Is there a good article on that?

[03:11:58]

banyan:

hello all! What bits would you definitely back up before doing an install on a myth back end?

[03:12:00]

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[03:12:23]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: well, many will tell you it's not, but getting there involves a lot of reinterpretation of the letter of the law.

[03:12:50]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: I've actually heard that "time shifting" has a "reasonable" limit placed on it (with 30 days having been thrown around as a rule of thumb)

[03:13:07]

Beirdo:

I think archiving was adequately covered by the legitimate use of VHS for the purpose, no?

[03:13:10]

sphery:

but you can be certain that all my 1360 recordings from OTA are less than 30 days old :)

[03:13:15]

banyan:

I have /var/lib/mysql (actually everything in /var/ but /var/lib/mythtv because it's too large), /etc, and that's kind of it so far.

[03:13:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: wasn't my understanding

[03:13:26]

sphery:

but then again, IANAL

[03:13:30]

** Beirdo shrugs **

[03:13:55]

Beirdo:

as long as it's for personal consumption, I don't care anyways

[03:13:56]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:14:03]

kormoc:

Let's ask the thousands of lawyers on the -users mailing list!

[03:14:12]

Beirdo:

but yeah, I should buy Good Eats DVDs

[03:14:25]

Beirdo:

I have no problems supporting Alton :)

[03:14:37]

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[03:14:42]

sphery:

Basically, the broadcaster has a license to broadcast the episode. You are allowed to watch it, but not copy it. You may "time shift" it, but only within a reasonable period. Otherwise, it's too dangerous to broadcast anything.

[03:14:53]

sphery:

so, copyright law needs to catch up with the times

[03:15:09]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:15:12]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I thought a reasonable period was until I got around to watching it

[03:15:34]

sphery:

that's pretty much how I'm choosing to interpret it since I can't find any hard/fast numbers

[03:15:45]

sphery:

but once I watch it, I delete it

[03:15:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I usually do too.

[03:16:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I'm just very behin.

[03:16:13]

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[03:16:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I don't object to buying things I like

[03:16:31]

Beirdo:

ooh oh, look out, it's a stuart!

[03:16:33]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I keep wobbling over getting a Netflix or such subscription.

[03:16:42]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But cable gives me enough to watch

[03:16:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

But if they keep raising prices, I'm going to purely OTA

[03:17:00]

sphery:

but basically, the *AA is too busy going after the wrong people and trying to invent new laws to actually worry about trying to make sure existing laws are enforced, so...

[03:17:08]

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[03:17:23]

Beirdo:

sphery: especially the FAA

[03:17:24]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:17:56]

sphery:

yeah, I haven't been able to justify Netflix (and I don't have Cable) because I get plenty of stuff to watch from OTA--even movies ("edited for content" :) and only about 4 years after everyone else sees them)

[03:17:58]

banyan:

I'd hate to be one of those guys who happened to get sued by the RIAA tho.

[03:18:04]

sphery:

Beirdo: yeah, especially them

[03:19:02]

** Beirdo yawns **

[03:19:27]

Beirdo:

dealing with a stupid carrier all day takes the wind outta yer sails

[03:19:43]

banyan:

so, what do I absolutely need to back up in order to not be starting from scratch after an install on the backend?

[03:19:44]

sphery:

banyan: yeah, I wish I could say, "Well all we have to do is not steal movies/music and we won't get sued," but it doesn't seem that's the case

[03:19:53]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, you must have good reception

[03:20:10]

banyan:

No, reasonable use appears to mean many things to many people.

[03:20:16]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: yeah, all my channels come in fine--all are within 5deg of each other from my house... it's wonderful.

[03:20:25]

Beirdo:

sphery: got a gator hanging off the antenna?

[03:20:33]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:20:40]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I spent hours trying to tune in PBS in Jersey and it continually fails.

[03:20:55]

sphery:

banyan: from a mythtv perspective, backup the DB – http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore . Also, don't delete the actual recordings. :)

[03:21:03]

kormoc:

Well, There's your problem... Move out of Jersey :P

[03:21:04]

Beirdo:

imagine that... Jersey and fail in one sentence :)

[03:21:26]

banyan:

It doesn't insist on doing a repartition or reformat does it?

[03:21:28]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Kormoc, I live in Queens.

[03:21:29]

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[03:21:37]

** Beirdo really wants a trebuchet to launch old network gear from Philly into Jersey **

[03:21:44]

banyan:

I mean the f13 install

[03:22:02]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Banyan, F13 allows you to exclude specific drives from installation

[03:22:43]

sphery:

Beirdo: Yeah, I found that it was working well to improve reception, but then the American Alligator got removed from the endangered list, and now it doesn't work so well. I'm trying to find some other endangered alligator that I can import to see if it improves reception.

[03:23:07]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:23:13]

Beirdo:

or a croc if you must

[03:23:15]

sphery:

banyan: I don't know about the FC13 install...

[03:23:26]

banyan:

oh, but that gets tricky — I just want it to use all the same drives for all the same things.

[03:23:40]

banyan:

and write over stuff but not format or partition.

[03:23:49]

Beirdo:

A nice Nile Croc should keep the antenna well balanced... and protected from theft :)

[03:23:57]

sphery:

banyan: my recommendation if you're not sure what the installer will do is to a) get all recordings off the drive to which you're installing the boot/root, and b) disconnect all other drives from your system during install

[03:24:28]

sphery:

Beirdo: heh, yeah, and I wouldn't have to water it as often

[03:24:34]

Beirdo:

hehe :)

[03:25:08]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Banyan, that's an in place upgrade. Not recommended.

[03:25:26]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I keep my recordings on a separate partition than my OS, so I can wipe the OS partition

[03:25:42]

Beirdo:

Captain_Murdoch: I have a delivery confirmation number for that video card should you wanna track it

[03:26:31]

Beirdo:

oh crap, it is almost there :)

[03:26:32]

Beirdo:

hehe

[03:27:11]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, you don't have to disconnect in F13. The installer now allows you to specifically exclude drives from installation

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[03:27:53]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: cool... though having only one drive in the system is a good way to make sure you choose the right one to format/install

[03:28:08]

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[03:28:23]

sphery:

I admit to being overly cautious when using an installer I don't understand from the inside out, though

[03:28:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, that is how I used to do it. It just annoyed me when I'd hook them back up and mix up sdb and sdc.

[03:28:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

Beirdo, thanks, if it's due here in the next couple days I'll just tell my wife to be on the lookout for it. I think the UPS and FedEx guys could drive down our street blindfolded.

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[03:29:13]

Beirdo:

I sent it USPS First Class :)

[03:29:14]

banyan:

yeah, and then what do you do with /var, which contains some kind of critical stuff. I should probably change it up so only /var/lib/myth* is on the other file system.

[03:29:35]

sphery:

Beirdo: complete with in-flight meals? or just free drinks?

[03:29:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Banyan, that is what I do.

[03:29:54]

Beirdo:

heheh

[03:29:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

What is critical in var other than the recordings?

[03:30:07]

sphery:

my systems /never/ put critical stuff in var

[03:30:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I use the backup scripts and backup the database outside of it.

[03:30:23]

sphery:

then again, I'm an FHS believer

[03:30:28]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, FHS?

[03:30:34]

kormoc:

sphery, /var/lib/mysql? :P

[03:30:40]

sphery:

Filesystem Hierarchy Standard

[03:30:47]

sphery:

kormoc: /srv/mysql

[03:30:50]

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[03:30:53]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, i'm going to have to look that up.

[03:30:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I learn a lot in here.

[03:30:59]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:31:06]

sphery:

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/

[03:31:12]

Beirdo:

/var/log... /var/lib/mysql

[03:31:13]

Beirdo:

:)

[03:31:17]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

People think I'm pretty knowledgable. You people always put me to shame.

[03:31:18]

kormoc:

sphery, heh, no one ever uses /srv I thought

[03:31:18]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: screw trebuchets, you want linear motors

[03:31:28]

Beirdo:

oh?

[03:31:44]

sphery:

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEVARHIERARCHY -> "/var contains variable data files. This includes spool directories and files, administrative and logging data, and transient and temporary files."

[03:31:54]

Beirdo:

a rail gun would be cool, but not sure how to put an old switch in it

[03:31:56]

sphery:

http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html# . . . IDEDBYSYSTEM -> "/srv contains site-specific data which is served by this system."

[03:32:04]

wagnerrp:

gauss, not rail

[03:32:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, so where do you keep your recordings?

[03:32:13]

sphery:

kormoc: like I said, I'm a believer

[03:32:21]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: /srv/mythtv

[03:32:33]

sphery:

site-specific data served by the system...

[03:32:45]

kormoc:

transient and temporary files could describe recordings

[03:32:49]

sphery:

specifically, though, /srv/mythtv/tv (and subdirs)

[03:33:11]

sphery:

kormoc: Applications must generally not add directories to the top level of /var.

[03:33:19]

sphery:

Such directories should only be added if they have some system-wide implication, and in consultation with the FHS mailing list.

[03:33:26]

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[03:33:27]

Beirdo:

heh, I never drank that kool-aid

[03:33:45]

sphery:

and, IMHO, /var/lib is wrong: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html# . . . EINFORMATION

[03:33:50]

Beirdo:

I can see some usefulness...

[03:33:56]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, I'll keep that in mind for when Fedora 14 comes out and I redo the OS, I might remount it elsewhere.

[03:34:02]

sphery:

"State information is data that programs modify while they run, and that pertains to one specific host"

[03:34:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

/var/media, which is where I keep it, is certainly nonstandard.

[03:34:20]

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[03:34:31]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: I will say, though, that it's much easier to do whatever your distro does... So, since RH hasn't bought into the FHS, it may be better not to use it.

[03:34:44]

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[03:35:12]

sphery:

though with something like MythTV data, it's probably not too bad to change it (if you understand how MythTV configuration works)

[03:35:21]

sphery:

though there is a lot to change when you factor in all the plugins and stuff

[03:35:25]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:35:47]

Beirdo:

my myth stuff is under /opt/mythtv

[03:35:55]

sphery:

yeah, /opt is ok for it, too

[03:35:58]

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[03:36:02]

sphery:

Beirdo: you have my approval :)

[03:36:04]

Beirdo:

I install to /opt/mythtv/${git branch}

[03:36:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, for recording data, Fedora has no standard. And I never liked putting it in /var/lib/mythtv. I always changed that.

[03:36:08]

kormoc:

/mnt/data/tv

[03:36:27]

Beirdo:

and storage groups go under /opt/mythtv/video1

[03:36:29]

sphery:

kormoc: /mnt is a "Mount point for a temporarily mounted filesystem"

[03:36:32]

sphery:

:)

[03:36:39]

Beirdo:

the next one would be /opt/mythtv/video2

[03:36:40]

** sphery has read far too much of that standard **

[03:36:53]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I can't remember why Red Hat switched from /mnt to /media

[03:37:01]

kormoc:

it's mounted temporarily, it unmounts when the box powers off :P

[03:37:06]

Beirdo:

heheeh

[03:37:09]

Beirdo:

nice

[03:37:12]

sphery:

kormoc: even CDs/DVDs/floppies, etc. aren't supposed to be at /mnt, anymore--they're supposed to be /media

[03:37:25]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I used to put MythTV into /media before they changed it

[03:37:25]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: /media is right for all but "one-off" mounts

[03:37:27]

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[03:37:34]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: told you, he didnt want to learn perl

[03:37:42]

sphery:

i.e. admin just mounts it, does something, then unmounts

[03:38:07]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Hmm...

[03:38:12]

sphery:

GadgetWisdomGuru: where "all" = all removeable media

[03:38:42]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I don't mount much on my backend temporarily.

[03:39:27]

sphery:

yeah, I almost never use /mnt anymore--generally when I do, it's because I got a new HDD and am moving recordings to it before unplugging some old one

[03:40:12]

sphery:

(or, really, I put the new one in, then mount the old at /mnt/tmp to copy from /mnt/tmp to the new drive, which is mounted where it will stay)

[03:41:14]

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[03:43:53]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: did this guy re-implement the jobqueue in bash?

[03:44:09]

wagnerrp:

'refers to run the transcode on a different machine from the backend'

[03:44:13]

wagnerrp:

prefers

[03:44:16]

Beirdo:

yeah, I think so

[03:44:28]

Beirdo:

AnotherSillyIdea

[03:44:36]

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[03:45:19]

Beirdo:

and another response that's gonna make him steam :)

[03:45:19]

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[03:46:17]

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[03:46:42]

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[03:47:20]

wagnerrp:

hey, check that out

[03:47:43]

wagnerrp:

if you highlight something in thunderbird, and hit reply, it replies with only that quoted

[03:47:55]

Beirdo:

cool

[03:47:56]

wagnerrp:

fancy

[03:48:54]

Beirdo:

I'll have to remember that

[03:48:56]

sphery:

heh, yeah, I found that a while back, but I've never been able to use it effectively because I typically have to re-edit all the broken quoting

[03:49:03]

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[03:49:03]

Beirdo:

hopefully "icedove" does the same

[03:49:29]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: 3rd party binary package of thunderbird?

[03:49:48]

Beirdo:

yeah, debian's perversion of it

[03:49:55]

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[03:50:15]

sphery:

well, if you change anything, you can't redistribute it with the Firefox or Thunderbird names since they're TM'ed

[03:50:27]

sphery:

you know, Mozilla pulled a Red Hat on GPL

[03:50:36]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:50:43]

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[03:50:55]

Beirdo:

I think it's the artwork that they have a real claim to, but whatever

[03:51:19]

Beirdo:

why debian had to change anything anyways, I dunno

[03:51:40]

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[03:51:53]

Beirdo:

but whatever :)

[03:52:44]

** Beirdo debianizes Debian... and calls it Ubuntu **

[03:53:49]

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[03:54:07]

** Beirdo wanders off to see how many new tickets he's acquired **

[03:54:36]

Beirdo:

oh right

[03:54:43]

Beirdo:

need to update #6824

[03:56:02]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: does nuvexport do anything with the database?

[03:56:15]

Beirdo:

yeah

[03:56:17]

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[03:56:33]

Beirdo:

it uses the perl bindings (such as they are) to get the program details

[03:56:44]

wagnerrp:

from the database or backend?

[03:57:00]

Beirdo:

database VIA the backend, I guess

[03:57:02]

Beirdo:

heh

[03:57:13]

Beirdo:

I don't think it uses the db directly

[03:57:19]

wagnerrp:

(just told the guy he needed to check schema versions, would look bad if nuvexport didnt)

[03:57:34]

Beirdo:

pretty sure it does

[03:57:56]

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[03:58:02]

Beirdo:

aw man....

[03:58:18]

Beirdo:

markk made a new merge conflict in the VAAPI patch :)

[03:58:25]

sphery:

perl binding don't :(

[03:58:50]

Beirdo:

well then put in a bug and I'll fix it

[03:59:00]

Beirdo:

but I'm pretty sure that it did

[03:59:11]

sphery:

did we lose our perl bindings rewrite guy?

[03:59:24]

wagnerrp:

i know the perl bindings dont, but i didnt know if nuvexport did on its own

[03:59:30]

sphery:

pretty sure the perl bindings only check protocol version

[03:59:35]

wagnerrp:

!seen nutron

[03:59:35]

MythLogBot:

nutron is here and has been idle for 13 days 21 hours 6 minutes 1 second

[03:59:46]

wagnerrp:

!seen Beirdo

[03:59:46]

MythLogBot:

Beirdo is here and has been idle for 46 seconds

[03:59:50]

sphery:

well, not completely gone--that's good

[03:59:51]

wagnerrp:

well one of them is still around

[03:59:55]

sphery:

heh

[04:00:00]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[04:00:03]

wagnerrp:

hop to it

[04:00:18]

Beirdo:

oooh, I think yer right

[04:00:24]

Beirdo:

ticket that beotch

[04:00:39]

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[04:00:53]

sphery:

I can't open a ticket... iamlindoro will kill me

[04:01:05]

wagnerrp:

only if you dont assign it to someone

[04:01:06]

Beirdo:

heheh. dooo eeeet!

[04:01:08]

spiffydudex:

Hey all, I have a backend setup with two recorders and I have three frontends around my house. I have recently begin pushing my DVDs onto a hard drive and I am wondering can I setup my backend to serve all of my frontends a the movies from this hard drive. I am not too sure how the storage groups work as I have added the directory to the Videos group, but I cannot seem to view them in the frontend. Will I need to setup each frontend to mount a share? I

[04:01:10]

sphery:

can't sleep. clown will eat me. can't sleep. clown will eat me.

[04:01:16]

Beirdo:

assign it to me

[04:01:36]

[R]:

spiffydudex: "i cannot seem to view them" doesn't really say much

[04:01:39]

sphery:

well, it would only be 398... so still under 400

[04:01:50]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:01:54]

wagnerrp:

spiffydudex: you need to go into mythvideo, hit 'm', and 'scan for changes'

[04:02:00]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Spiffydudex, they wouldn't happen to be ISOs, would they?

[04:02:00]

spiffydudex:

Basically, they do not show up when I "Scan for new media"

[04:02:13]

sphery:

spiffydudex: and remember that ISOs cannot be served via storage groups

[04:02:22]

sphery:

so you need NFS for them

[04:02:22]

spiffydudex:

no, they are MKV for my blue-rays and AVI for my dvds

[04:03:25]

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[04:04:02]

dougt_:

hey all. mythpreviewgen is still chashing in sse land... is there a way to configure mythpreviewgen (only) to use a slow path to avoid the segfault?

[04:04:21]

wagnerrp:

why not just use mkvs for all?

[04:04:25]

wagnerrp:

avis suck

[04:04:37]

spiffydudex:

lol

[04:04:46]

spiffydudex:

I was using two separate programs

[04:04:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, is...because MythTV doesn't output MKVs an acceptable answer?

[04:05:22]

spiffydudex:

I have considered considered going back and redoing my avis to mkv. onlu have like 5 avis right now

[04:05:26]

wagnerrp:

does mythdvd output avis?

[04:05:42]

Beirdo:

how about hertz or budget?

[04:05:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I haven't used it in a while. Last time I did it did. But that was ages ago

[04:05:57]

spiffydudex:

but, it would be nice to support all formats so I can put videos sent from my family on there without have to re-encode

[04:06:04]

patdk-lap:

it used to, I haven't used it since .20 :)

[04:06:07]

wagnerrp:

anyway, the only program you should be using for blurays is 'cp'

[04:06:35]

Beirdo:

nah, you should use the Java program built-in to your BluRay player :)

[04:06:41]

wagnerrp:

re-encoding them is foolish

[04:07:03]

wagnerrp:

at most, you would remux to mkv to save the GB or two of overhead from the m2tss

[04:07:25]

spiffydudex:

yeah...

[04:08:03]

spiffydudex:

but as for my initial problem. I am just supposed to all the folders to the "Videos" Storage group?

[04:08:24]

wagnerrp:

yes, any folder you add to the Videos group should be served to the frontend

[04:08:25]

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[04:08:40]

wagnerrp:

the storage exists on the backend on which you defined these groups, correct?

[04:08:43]

spiffydudex:

alright, I'll keep messing with it and see if I can get it to work

[04:08:48]

spiffydudex:

yes

[04:08:50]

wagnerrp:

have you restarted the backend after adding those groups?

[04:09:21]

spiffydudex:

I ran myth-setup, saved/exited. do I have to issue a restart of it?

[04:09:33]

wagnerrp:

depends on your distro

[04:09:48]

wagnerrp:

mythbuntu wraps mythtv-setup such that it will automatically terminate mythbackend when you run it

[04:09:49]

spiffydudex:

mythbuntu with the autobuilds 0.24

[04:11:02]

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[04:15:47]

spiffydudex:

strange...guess all it took was me talking on IRC lol, didnt change any settings just restarted the backend manually and it seems to be working fine

[04:16:08]

Beirdo:

ok, updated #6824

[04:19:25]

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[04:19:40]

spiffydudex:

Thanks for the help wagnerrp

[04:20:50]

dougt_:

does anyone have a workaround for the mythpreviewgen + HDPVR crash?

[04:23:48]

sphery:

Beirdo: is the setting in #6824 a short-term thing--just until everyone trusts the change?

[04:24:10]

sphery:

or maybe just until 0.24 release, then in trunk it's removed and everyone uses the fast one and we actually fix the bugs :)

[04:24:12]

Beirdo:

I think that was the idea

[04:24:15]

sphery:

cool

[04:24:18]

Beirdo:

or really... so I can test

[04:24:33]

sphery:

yeah, just as long as it's not a permanent setting I'm happy

[04:24:37]

Beirdo:

all I have to do is set it to 0 in the db to override the optimizations

[04:24:54]

Beirdo:

we can yank that part out once it is tested well enough

[04:25:12]

Beirdo:

yup, what you said :)

[04:25:14]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:25:19]

sphery:

cool

[04:25:30]

Beirdo:

I'm gonna test with it a bit though

[04:25:34]

sphery:

many will love that change--kudos to you and danielk

[04:25:45]

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[04:25:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I just remembered, I was supposed to get NIK HD today.

[04:25:57]

Beirdo:

and if others with non-H.264 are willing to mess with it (if ya run trunk), great

[04:26:37]

sphery:

I only run trunk on my dev box and only with a dummy recorder

[04:26:46]

Beirdo:

I'll make myself a testing script soon (which will be evil and tweak my database)

[04:26:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:26:54]

Beirdo:

but only that one setting

[04:27:02]

sphery:

heh, yeah

[04:27:09]

sphery:

did you compare the with/without results?

[04:27:18]

sphery:

just curious

[04:27:37]

Beirdo:

it will commflag a file, dump the markings, disable the optimizations, commflag it again, dump the flaglist

[04:27:44]

sphery:

cool

[04:27:45]

sphery:

nice

[04:27:47]

Beirdo:

only visually so fart

[04:27:51]

sphery:

that will be a good test

[04:27:52]

Beirdo:

far rather

[04:27:59]

sphery:

heh

[04:28:19]

Beirdo:

freudian slip or something

[04:29:31]

Beirdo:

but need to recompile... then wait for commflag to finish before I test

[04:30:47]

dougt_:

when is the .24 branch ?

[04:31:12]

Beirdo:

feature freeze is slated for Sept 1

[04:31:25]

Beirdo:

and if all goes well, release Oct 1 is the goal

[04:31:25]

** iamlindoro assigns some tickets to sphery out of punishment **

[04:31:41]

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[04:31:45]

dougt_:

Beirdo: cool... running trunk now... people are going to love it.

[04:32:17]

Beirdo:

unless we bork it good, they should :)

[04:32:20]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:32:52]

wagnerrp:

bork bork bork

[04:33:20]

Beirdo:

oh wow I have a lot of tickets now :)

[04:33:25]

Beirdo:

I'd better get crackin

[04:33:27]

sphery:

so the moral of the story is, "Never comment on a ticket--no matter what."

[04:33:43]

Beirdo:

hmm?

[04:33:55]

Beirdo:

you opened your mouth, and iamlindoro inserted the ticket?

[04:34:01]

sphery:

iamlindoro seems to be assigning tickets to anyone who commented on them :)

[04:34:04]

sphery:

yeah

[04:34:07]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:34:17]

iamlindoro:

I am giving it *slightly* more consideration than that

[04:34:20]

iamlindoro:

but only slightly

[04:34:30]

sphery:

curse my strong opinions!

[04:34:36]

Beirdo:

hey, that's not a bad start, really

[04:34:57]

sphery:

yeah, unfortunately, I can't argue with any of the ones he's assigned to me

[04:35:02]

Beirdo:

I vote we give #3872 to iamlindoro for punishment :)

[04:35:13]

sphery:

well, with the assignment--a couple of them I'm arguing with the reporter :)

[04:35:17]

iamlindoro:

I was just considering closing it as "sorta-kinda-fixed"

[04:35:47]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:35:50]

iamlindoro:

since a failed rec will now reschedule as of a week or so ago

[04:35:54]

sphery:

that's not in the combo box in my browser

[04:36:09]

Beirdo:

well, yeah, if that is in, hopefully we should be good.

[04:36:09]

sphery:

yeah, I say close it with "all the rest is a feature request"

[04:36:18]

Beirdo:

now now. :)

[04:36:23]

Beirdo:

heh

[04:36:25]

Beirdo:

go for it

[04:36:27]

sphery:

I say that--but without the conviction to do it myself :)

[04:36:35]

Beirdo:

bye, old ticket.

[04:36:36]

iamlindoro:

done

[04:36:39]

sphery:

lol

[04:36:46]

Beirdo:

wanna count the days until a new one replaces it?

[04:36:58]

sphery:

Mwuahhhaha... My puppets!

[04:38:01]

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[04:38:28]

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[04:38:58]

iamlindoro:

Wait until the euro kids wake up

[04:39:02]

iamlindoro:

and check their e-mail

[04:39:12]

Beirdo:

heeheh

[04:39:21]

Beirdo:

so where's my perl bindings ticket?

[04:39:25]

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[04:39:39]

sphery:

iamlindoro: so do I add a comment to #8304: The virtual/on-screen keyboard's Compose approach works fine for me in trunk.

[04:39:54]

sphery:

or just close it "fixed" for trunk

[04:40:01]

iamlindoro:

just close that bad boy

[04:40:03]

sphery:

I don't want to get the ticket locked

[04:40:07]

Beirdo:

close it :)

[04:40:12]

sphery:

"comments on the list, please!'

[04:40:16]

Beirdo:

put yer comment and close it

[04:40:24]

Beirdo:

"works in trunk" – fixed

[04:41:10]

Beirdo:

assuming it does work, of course :)

[04:41:11]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:41:32]

sphery:

It did--I actually needed to use that to test a patch I applied just over a week ago

[04:41:35]

iamlindoro:

details

[04:41:55]

sphery:

(and since this was reported in 0.22 days, I figure the chances that something has broken it in the interim are slim)

[04:42:30]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:42:38]

Beirdo:

another ticket bites the dust

[04:44:17]

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[04:45:08]

sphery:

OK, I have a love/hate relationship with T-bird 3.x's new "sort threads by most-recent message in thread instead of first message in thread" behavior. It helps me to not miss new additions to old threads, but if I forget to move my cursor in time, it will move me (and the thread I was reading) to the bottom of the list when a new message comes in.

[04:45:27]

sphery:

then I have to find my place in the folder, again

[04:45:31]

sphery:

:(

[04:46:29]

sphery:

iamlindoro: hah, joke's on you... I already had #8525 marked blue (TODO)!

[04:46:51]

iamlindoro:

Great, let me give you some of their neighbors

[04:46:55]

sphery:

(just wasn't committed enough to it to tell the world by accepting the ticket :)

[04:47:13]

iamlindoro:

heh

[04:47:18]

iamlindoro:

Well this is the new MythTV

[04:47:24]

iamlindoro:

we don't wait for you to say okay

[04:47:26]

iamlindoro:

yes means yes

[04:47:28]

iamlindoro:

no means yes

[04:47:29]

Beirdo:

well, bend over... time for ticket insertion

[04:47:42]

sphery:

hey, this isn't what I signed up for!

[04:47:57]

sphery:

or, would that be, this is up for what I signed?

[04:47:59]

Beirdo:

hehe, you can always reassign em later

[04:48:02]

sphery:

isn't

[04:48:33]

iamlindoro:

This is the end of that up with which I will put!

[04:49:35]

sphery:

heh

[04:49:42]

Beirdo:

up with this @#$@ I will not put!

[04:50:37]

Beirdo:

I forget which movie actually HAD that line in it

[04:50:41]

sphery:

wikipedia actually has a nice long entry about that--but no actual information on right versus wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preposition_stranding

[04:51:23]

sphery:

a lot of people ascribe the quote, "This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put," to Winston Churchill, but evidence seems to indicate he never said it.

[04:51:49]

sphery:

(and they say it was his response to someone's criticism of his phrasing of something else.)

[04:52:31]

Beirdo:

hehe

[04:53:42]

Beirdo:

need. food.

[04:54:01]

sphery:

wow, today is wizard of oz day

[04:54:13]

sphery:

(see http://www.google.com/ )

[04:55:02]

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[05:23:02]

Beirdo:

sphery: weren't you gonna make me a ticket?\

[05:23:12]

Beirdo:

oh, and "me too" on #7714

[05:23:51]

sphery:

heh, so this is where the me toos go

[05:24:00]

sphery:

still afraid of iamlindoro

[05:24:27]

sphery:

You know CA isn't that far from FL when you're talking about iamlindoro's hate for new tickets...

[05:24:29]

** iamlindoro looks around wildly **

[05:24:39]

sphery:

he's trying to get me to make a new ticket...

[05:24:40]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:24:48]

Beirdo:

he can live with it ;)(

[05:24:50]

iamlindoro:

A new ticket is fine, just assign it

[05:24:51]

sphery:

remember that WA is closer than FL...

[05:25:06]

sphery:

but when I create a ticket, I feel like a whiner :)

[05:25:18]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yeah, but its more rainy and depressing

[05:25:21]

sphery:

I feel I should write patches then make tickets or commit them

[05:25:39]

sphery:

wagnerrp: ah, but a nice rainstorm goes well with a murder spree

[05:25:48]

sphery:

at least, it seems to based on TV shows I watch

[05:26:19]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:26:24]

Beirdo:

it's not THAT rainy

[05:26:51]

sphery:

Beirdo: on #7714, yeah. I've looked at it a couple of times, but I can't figure out a good way to prevent the crash-at-shutdown without introducing deadlocks

[05:27:03]

sphery:

I'm not saying there isn't a way--just that it's beyond me, so far

[05:28:17]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:28:34]

Beirdo:

well, if you ever have a brainwave... let me knwo :)

[05:29:00]

sphery:

I will admit that I get bored with that ticket after about 15 minutes, too, so I typically try one change, then decide to work on something else.

[05:29:08]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:29:37]

sphery:

and I feel guilty running mfdb against SD... I guess maybe I could download the raw data and then run against the file...

[05:30:04]

Beirdo:

well, right now, is it back up yet?

[05:30:14]

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[05:30:41]

Beirdo:

I pity trunk users who aren't devs right now

[05:30:53]

Beirdo:

especially since they are expected to follow that spew :)

[05:30:54]

Beirdo:

heheh

[05:30:59]

sphery:

I guess the downloads work--it's just the "create/edit lineups" that doesn't work, right?

[05:31:21]

Beirdo:

not sure the extent of the borkage

[05:31:46]

sphery:

Last mythfilldatabase run started on 2010-08–11 21:42 and ended on 2010-08–11 21:43. mythfilldatabase ran, but did not insert any new data into the Guide for 1 of 1 sources. This can indicate a potential grabber failure.

[05:31:48]

Beirdo:

I guess if it works, it works

[05:31:52]

sphery:

but: There's guide data until 2010-08–25 06:00 (13 days).

[05:32:02]

sphery:

so it's working--that's proper amount of data

[05:32:02]

Beirdo:

yeah, it runs like every 6h

[05:32:21]

sphery:

(we /really/ need to get rid of that "did not insert any new data into the Guide for 1 of 1 sources" message

[05:32:36]

sphery:

really, the scheduling thing isn't working right for SD now?

[05:32:46]

Beirdo:

yeah, if it doesn't insert for 4 times in a row....

[05:32:52]

sphery:

Suggested next mythfilldatabase run: 2010-08–12 12:56.

[05:32:59]

Beirdo:

dunno, I heard rumblings of breakage

[05:33:03]

sphery:

so that's 15hrs from my last

[05:33:32]

sphery:

the mfdb run code has "sanity checks" that should prevent running it 2x in one day or skipping a day

[05:33:37]

Beirdo:

well, I can tell ya that my mythbox does significant traffic every 6h

[05:33:40]

sphery:

assuming a period of 1day

[05:33:54]

Beirdo:

nah

[05:34:04]

Beirdo:

it should run a often as they tell us to :)

[05:34:07]

sphery:

it may be doing it... I know that code has been changed many times to try to work with all the differen grabbers and their different needs

[05:34:11]

Beirdo:

that way we get last minute changes

[05:34:27]

sphery:

been a long time since I looked at the code

[05:34:39]

Beirdo:

me too

[05:35:28]

Beirdo:

sigh

[05:35:33]

sphery:

woah... I just realized why you mentioned #7714

[05:35:33]

Beirdo:

almost done commflagging

[05:35:38]

sphery:

how did I get that one!

[05:35:42]

sphery:

evil, evil iamlindoro

[05:35:47]

** Beirdo looks at iamlindoro and grins **

[05:35:55]

Beirdo:

hehe. HE did it :)

[05:36:03]

Beirdo:

don't blame me, man

[05:36:45]

sphery:

and I can't even "fix" it by trapping SIGSEGV... stupid POSIX

[05:37:09]

Beirdo:

no, but there has to be a way to fix it cleanly

[05:37:17]

Beirdo:

like null-checking, maybe?

[05:37:22]

sphery:

you and your high standards

[05:37:28]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:37:58]

Beirdo:

apparently SD is back... 2h ago

[05:38:02]

sphery:

nice

[05:38:16]

sphery:

but there's still a Geocities message...

[05:38:25]

sphery:

ah, Shift-Reload

[05:38:28]

sphery:

it's back!

[05:39:23]

sphery:

oh, and for anyone reading, no, SD is not using Geocities for hosting--that was just a colorful description of the style of error page that I heard from a creative (but evil) person

[05:39:33]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:39:55]

Beirdo:

Mr Ticketmaster of the day, no doubt

[05:40:22]

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[05:40:30]

sphery:

heh, at least he's not charging us a fee for ticketing

[05:40:30]

Beirdo:

so I wait for the stupid backend to finish commflagging...

[05:40:36]

Beirdo:

no it's recording.

[05:40:42]

sphery:

oh, does "stupid backend" mean atom?

[05:40:43]

Beirdo:

now even

[05:40:51]

sphery:

:D

[05:40:55]

** Beirdo smacks sphery with a wiffle bat **

[05:41:08]

Beirdo:

backend = Pentium-D :)

[05:41:25]

Beirdo:

firewall = Atom :)

[05:41:51]

sphery:

oh, actually that's a good use of an atom

[05:41:58]

Beirdo:

that it is :)

[05:42:06]

sphery:

sorry--I shoudl have known you'd do MythTV right :)

[05:42:57]

Beirdo:

as right as I can :)

[05:43:11]

Beirdo:

I really want an 8-core box for commflag :)

[05:43:21]

** Beirdo gives kormoc the evil eye :) **

[05:47:56]

sphery:

these ticket messages are like rabbits

[05:48:17]

** wagnerrp gets a gun **

[05:48:29]

Beirdo:

The Aussies will love em

[05:48:53]

sphery:

I thought they liked frogs

[05:50:18]

Beirdo:

pretty sure the reality is rabbits

[05:50:34]

wagnerrp:

/thats/ what i added it for

[05:50:53]

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[05:50:54]

wagnerrp:

i had added a new time format to the bindings a couple weeks ago

[05:50:55]

Beirdo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbits_in_Australia

[05:51:04]

wagnerrp:

rfc822... couldnt remember why i did it

[05:51:14]

Beirdo:

mmmm, email time :)

[05:53:46]

sphery:

wow, rabbits in australia

[05:54:10]

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[05:54:11]

Beirdo:

yeah, hence why the Aussies will love our rabbit-like email :)

[05:54:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:54:53]

AndyCap:

well, it's not the only problem they got. :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Invasiv . . . in_Australia

[05:55:08]

sphery:

I was actually the cane toad that's I was thinking of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasive_species_in_Australia

[05:55:18]

Beirdo:

do they list British people in the list?

[05:55:20]

sphery:

the rabbits made the top pictures, though

[05:55:39]

wagnerrp:

sphery: does the standard myth filename format include seconds?

[05:55:46]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yep

[05:55:56]

wagnerrp:

for some reason, im thinking the last two digits werent seconds, but were some arbitrary counter

[05:56:01]

sphery:

though it's always 00 unless there's already a file by that name

[05:56:09]

sphery:

then it's incremented by 1s until it's unique

[05:56:13]

Beirdo:

whaaaa?

[05:56:15]

sphery:

but in LiveTV, it may not be 0s

[05:56:18]

Beirdo:

Dromedary Camels?!

[05:56:34]

wagnerrp:

sure, its desert

[05:56:46]

AndyCap:

1 1/2 hump?

[05:56:53]

Beirdo:

but 1.1M of them!?

[05:57:05]

Beirdo:

start eating camel-burgers, people!

[05:57:07]

wagnerrp:

and feral

[05:57:10]

sphery:

it's a /big/ desert?

[05:57:21]

sphery:

wagnerrp: like Will feral?

[05:58:00]

wagnerrp:

some could claim he has escaped domestication, and returned to the wild with animal-like behavior

[05:58:05]

Beirdo:

hehe

[05:58:26]

sphery:

Beirdo: maybe if they introduce the 2-humped bactrian camel, it will eat the 1-humped dromedary camels and solve the problem?

[05:59:05]

Beirdo:

they have bactrian too, apparently

[05:59:09]

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[05:59:20]

Beirdo:

or had

[05:59:23]

sphery:

ah, guess that plan didn't work, then :)

[05:59:41]

Beirdo:

and instead of eating them... they bred

[05:59:55]

sphery:

making 1 1/2 humped camels?

[06:00:01]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[06:00:15]

wagnerrp:

is soviet australia, camels hump you

[06:00:28]

wagnerrp:

*in... man, screwed that one up

[06:00:57]

sphery:

it's times like that when math fails me... Also, I've been wondering what happens when I apply SPF 30 sunblock on top of SPF 50 sunblock... I'm pretty sure it's not SPF 80, but I don't know what it turns out to be...

[06:01:23]

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[06:01:37]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:01:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: heh, didn't expect that one

[06:01:56]

Beirdo:

maybe it's like parallel resistance?

[06:02:24]

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[06:02:24]

sphery:

heh

[06:02:52]

Beirdo:

making it SPF 18.75

[06:03:14]

wagnerrp:

not 25.7?

[06:03:20]

sphery:

heh

[06:03:20]

Beirdo:

nope

[06:03:23]

sphery:

I got 18.75, too

[06:03:25]

wagnerrp:

been a while since ive done my resistors

[06:03:35]

Beirdo:

1/(1/30 + 1/50)

[06:03:48]

wagnerrp:

oh, i thought you squared it for some reason

[06:03:54]

Beirdo:

nope :)

[06:04:06]

Beirdo:

some of my elec eng-fu is still in there

[06:04:17]

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[06:04:22]

sphery:

mine is all "in Google"

[06:04:29]

Beirdo:

hehe

[06:04:33]

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[06:08:21]

sphery:

iamlindoro: wontfix/user-doesn't-want-it-anymore http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5754#comment:24 ? (almost "user is doing it right, now" except for the tunerless master backend and EPIA usage)

[06:08:41]

sphery:

in reality, janneg had some planned changes in the works that weren't using the patch from there, but would give the benefits of it

[06:08:49]

sphery:

without the new settings/issues

[06:09:22]

mechcozmo:

hi, is there a way to increase the local cache MythTV builds up when playing off the backend?

[06:09:23]

sphery:

funny, I star'ed that message 7 months ago so I could ask if we should just close it

[06:09:51]

sphery:

mechcozmo: only by editing the source

[06:09:56]

wagnerrp:

mechcozmo: yes, run ethernet to your remote frontends

[06:10:12]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: doing that powerline stuff...

[06:10:15]

sphery:

and, yeah, ^^^ is the right solution

[06:10:16]

mechcozmo:

no other way :-/

[06:10:26]

sphery:

the real network is the right solution

[06:10:30]

wagnerrp:

its all a function of effort

[06:10:36]

wagnerrp:

theres always another way

[06:10:59]

Beirdo:

such as wireless.

[06:11:06]

Beirdo:

it's another way

[06:11:14]

Beirdo:

it also has issues, of course

[06:11:16]

mechcozmo:

wireless-N is a bad idea and won't work, ethernet is impractical... what's left?

[06:11:16]

sphery:

not necessarily better :)

[06:11:27]

wagnerrp:

why impractical?

[06:11:27]

sphery:

ethernet

[06:11:29]

Beirdo:

why won't wireless-N work?

[06:11:48]

sphery:

(eliminate the impossible and whatever's left is still possible :)

[06:12:00]

sphery:

impractical != impossible :)

[06:12:09]

Beirdo:

heck you could even use token ring or ATM

[06:12:25]

wagnerrp:

bulk cable, boots, and a crimp tool are cheap

[06:12:30]

Beirdo:

not that I'd recommend either

[06:12:34]

mechcozmo:

N: because it's far away from the router and performance would fall apart for the other units using the network

[06:12:41]

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[06:12:50]

wagnerrp:

you can get cable raceways to hide your ethernet runs if you cant do it through the walls for whatever reasons

[06:12:53]

Beirdo:

"the router"

[06:13:09]

Beirdo:

you know, you CAN run more than one wireless G setup :)

[06:13:10]

wagnerrp:

or if youve got central air, you could run it through the ducting

[06:13:10]

mechcozmo:

Beirdo: magic box that turns wired ethernet into cancerous radio waves

[06:13:14]

kormoc:

I use N just fine

[06:13:19]

wagnerrp:

cancerous?

[06:13:25]

mechcozmo:

forgive the sarcasm...

[06:13:34]

Beirdo:

and that's not a definition for a router

[06:13:40]

kormoc:

mechcozmo, and that awesome super EM output over the powerlines are much better?

[06:13:40]

wagnerrp:

well you know, there are some people who actually thing that

[06:13:47]

Beirdo:

that's a definition for a wireless access point

[06:13:51]

mechcozmo:

kormoc: not really

[06:13:52]

sphery:

oooh, "raceways"... I'll bet the bits would really go fast through those

[06:13:55]

kormoc:

Cuase nothing like ramping up the signal to push over lines not intended for it....

[06:14:28]

Beirdo:

and then having to filter it out in every power supply on the grid

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[06:14:42]

wagnerrp:

http://cableorganizer.com/surface-raceways/cornerduct.html

[06:15:42]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: cute but crown molding makes that impractical

[06:15:55]

wagnerrp:

crown moulding makes it unnecessary

[06:16:08]

wagnerrp:

pull the molding, hollow, insert cable, nail back in place

[06:16:11]

kormoc:

Meh

[06:16:20]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: and if you don't have time for that?

[06:16:34]

kormoc:

He doesn't want any answers we're gonna give him, doesn't seem worth it to argue with him

[06:16:35]

wagnerrp:

track cables under the rug

[06:16:37]

Beirdo:

then you spend MORE time on IRC asking fun questions

[06:17:16]

wagnerrp:

go into the code and add caching into video playback

[06:17:33]

mechcozmo:

kormoc: well, i'm interested in hearing about how running 1080p over N affects things

[06:17:44]

wagnerrp:

1080p what?

[06:17:48]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: I wonder if that wouldn't help slightly with some of the video buffers not ready nonsense

[06:17:49]

wagnerrp:

thats a resolution

[06:17:59]

Beirdo:

and a framerate :)

[06:18:02]

wagnerrp:

surely youre not going to run full raw 375MB/s 1080p over N

[06:18:17]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: 1080p movies, ~15GB per file if i'm remembering correctly?

[06:18:32]

kormoc:

mechcozmo, that entirely depends on the bitrates/etc

[06:18:40]

wagnerrp:

HDDVD does 15–25GB/movie

[06:18:47]

wagnerrp:

bluray is 20–35GB

[06:18:48]

sphery:

I feel so much like an iamlindoro ... (just closed a ticket)

[06:18:58]

kormoc:

I have 720p recordings with larger file size then some 1080i recordings...

[06:18:59]

Beirdo:

cool

[06:19:06]

wagnerrp:

so... 4–5MB/s peak stuff

[06:19:07]

Beirdo:

open one too :)

[06:19:14]

wagnerrp:

shouldnt be a problem for N or powerline

[06:19:16]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: seems about right

[06:19:24]

wagnerrp:

assuming youve only got one or two devices

[06:19:30]

wagnerrp:

and you dont have a noisy environment

[06:19:49]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: five or six wireless devices

[06:20:07]

Beirdo:

sphery: nice work

[06:20:13]

kormoc:

I use a airport extreme as my AP and airport expresses as my clients (converts to ethernet). I use wide band N and have 3 clients on that and then another two on G

[06:20:22]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: including a G printer that keeps me from going full N

[06:20:37]

kormoc:

mechcozmo, which is why you get a router with multiple wifi networks

[06:20:49]

kormoc:

My G network is entirely unshared with my N

[06:21:08]

mechcozmo:

kormoc: currently have a Linksys-N router, the WRT-160

[06:21:18]

mechcozmo:

running DD-WRT

[06:21:34]

kormoc:

My airport gives me a 5 ghz 802.11N, and two 2.4 ghz 802.11G/Bs

[06:21:38]

** wagnerrp thinks those should all be wired... **

[06:22:02]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: what's the reason to wire a laptop?

[06:22:08]

kormoc:

but in anycase, I stream h264 recording over the N just fine

[06:22:16]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: apartment-dwellers can't always choose wires :)

[06:22:17]

wagnerrp:

because its sitting at a desk, plugged into the wall power

[06:22:36]

wagnerrp:

whats the reason to limit yourself to wireless when youre stationary

[06:22:43]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: couch, table, lap, etc.

[06:22:49]

mechcozmo:

point is, they aren't stationary

[06:22:55]

Beirdo:

hmmm, never heard of this brand of TV before: hannspree

[06:22:56]

wagnerrp:

only when youre up and moving around

[06:23:09]

wagnerrp:

when its at its desk, it should be wired

[06:23:11]

wagnerrp:

IMHO

[06:23:28]

Beirdo:

my "desk" is my gut.. on the couch :)P

[06:23:49]

wagnerrp:

of course this is coming from someone with a patch panel in the basement

[06:23:54]

mechcozmo:

it'd be nice to wire everything ever, but that's not going to happen until i own a place...

[06:24:07]

mechcozmo:

yeah, i'd love to have one of those

[06:24:11]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: with a house, I'd be all over that :)

[06:24:22]

Beirdo:

and a half-rack (or more) next to it

[06:25:08]

mechcozmo:

so, what's the consensus on running a 4MB/sec peak bitrate file over N that's shared with a number of other devices?

[06:25:09]

wagnerrp:

at my last apartment, i just got some white conduit, attached it to the ceiling, and ran my network bundles through there

[06:25:15]

Beirdo:

anyone even heard of hannspree before?

[06:25:27]

wagnerrp:

ive heard the name, dont know anything about them

[06:26:44]

kormoc:

mechcozmo, consensus is works for me (tm)(r)

[06:27:18]

mechcozmo:

kormoc: thanks... i guess i'll try that and set up a G network sometime later

[06:28:08]

wagnerrp:

if you can get some 5GHz gear, the airspace is (currently) wide open

[06:28:09]

sphery:

Beirdo: I have, but then again, I'm not picky about brand names nor about color reproduction for general use (as I have no artistic sensibilities)

[06:28:21]

wagnerrp:

theres some 20 or so usable channels, compared to 3 in the 2.4GHz band

[06:28:23]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:28:31]

Beirdo:

well, they are cheap...

[06:28:38]

mechcozmo:

wagnerrp: i'm going to try that, but i'll have to check the rest of the devices to see if they can to 5GHz

[06:28:41]

Beirdo:

thinking of bedroom TV use

[06:29:11]

** waxhead_ did wireless and gave up **

[06:29:43]

mechcozmo:

i just know reception in this nook of the house is terrible

[06:29:47]

waxhead_:

bought a house because it was cheaper to do that and run cat6 than keep buying crappy AP's and wireless nics

[06:29:59]

sphery:

Beirdo: I'd recommend checking out the model you're considering at a real store just to make sure it would make you happy

[06:30:08]

wagnerrp:

and you dont have to deal with things like microwaves, cordless phones, baby monitors, etc...

[06:30:12]

Beirdo:

yeah, I hear ya

[06:30:17]

wagnerrp:

since those are all at 2.4 or 5.8GHz

[06:30:21]

wagnerrp:

plenty of non-competing space

[06:30:24]

sphery:

quality/color is more likely to be important for a TV than a general-purpose monitor

[06:30:26]

kormoc:

waxhead_, which is why I bought the apple gear, it's rather solid

[06:30:44]

Beirdo:

but $199 for 25" 1080p...

[06:30:52]

kormoc:

and no linux drivers to fight with, no linux wifi security to fight with...

[06:31:05]

waxhead_:

I also didn't have 5ghz, all 2.4.. but getting it around the house was always a problem..

[06:31:08]

wagnerrp:

i really hate apple monitors

[06:31:10]

waxhead_:

and don't do WDS

[06:31:13]

mechcozmo:

kormoc: i'm not sure i want to do that either

[06:31:19]

waxhead_:

I discover that mistake much later..

[06:31:34]

Beirdo:

WDS worked wonderfully for me before

[06:31:54]

waxhead_:

Beirdo, it halves the available bandwidth though

[06:32:03]

wagnerrp:

for $1500, they give some weird purplish backlight glow

[06:32:03]

Beirdo:

how so?

[06:32:21]

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[06:32:23]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, ooh? never seen that happen

[06:32:26]

wagnerrp:

but besides that, they have that horrible non-detachable cable sticking straight out the back

[06:32:33]

Beirdo:

the available bandwidth on G is around 25Mbit/s anyways

[06:32:44]

Beirdo:

once you try to do full-duplex

[06:32:45]

waxhead_:

you never get that though

[06:32:46]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: yeah, some artifact of the IPS panels they used

[06:32:49]

Beirdo:

and that's if you are lucky

[06:32:52]

kormoc:

huh

[06:33:02]

kormoc:

I've only used the LED planels

[06:33:09]

wagnerrp:

these are a couple years old

[06:33:16]

Beirdo:

54Mbit/s half-duplex is yech when you try to do full duplex traffix

[06:33:25]

Beirdo:

and WDS didn't affect that much

[06:33:37]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, Yeah, but still only what they're shipping now

[06:33:38]

mechcozmo:

Beirdo: G tops out at about 10Mbps in this area of the house

[06:33:41]

Beirdo:

my typing sucks

[06:33:50]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, they dropped the 30" (last of the non LED ones)

[06:33:53]

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[06:33:59]

Beirdo:

mechcozmo: then get more access points wired together

[06:34:02]

wagnerrp:

oh, and the controller on them (and our similar HPs) all suffer this funky issue where about 1/50th of the green subpixels turn active

[06:34:14]

kormoc:

weird

[06:34:28]

waxhead_:

* The maximum wireless effective throughput is halved after the first retransmission (hop) that is made. For example, in the case of two routers connected via WDS, and communication is made between a computer that is plugged into router A and a laptop that is connected wirelessly using router B's access point, the throughput is halved, because router B has to retransmit the information during the communication of the

[06:34:28]

waxhead_:

two sides. However, in the case of communications between a computer that is plugged into router A and a computer that is plugged into router B, the throughput is not halved since there is no need to retransmit the information.

[06:34:39]

wagnerrp:

happens on our all machines, windows or linux, doesnt matter the video card

[06:34:39]

waxhead_:

whoops.. sorry everyone

[06:34:40]

mechcozmo:

Beirdo: it's a bit difficult to put that into practice

[06:34:50]

wagnerrp:

maybe its an nvidia dual-link issue, theyre all nvidia cards

[06:35:04]

Beirdo:

waxhead_: yeah, depends on your WDS topology

[06:35:16]

kormoc:

I only do nvidia, so...

[06:35:58]

wagnerrp:

well our 30" HPs do the same thing

[06:36:12]

Beirdo:

and anywho...

[06:36:15]

wagnerrp:

and i know they have the same (or similar) controller, since theyre both limited to 1280x800 single-link

[06:36:24]

** sphery needs an irssi threading script so he can follow both these conversations more easily **

[06:36:43]

Beirdo:

heh

[06:37:55]

kormoc:

sphery, heh, not sure they're worth that much effort :P

[06:38:51]

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[06:39:57]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: hope youre not defending any prisoners

[06:39:58]

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[06:40:14]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[06:40:15]

wagnerrp:

s/defending/guarding/

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[06:52:00]

Beirdo:

heheeh

[06:52:43]

GlemSom:

I have a XML file, which for most programs has two title elements... Since coverarts seems to prefer the original title (english), I'll like to try to use that instead. Is there a way to configure mythfilldatabase to prefer the English title over the Danish? example from XML file -> http://pastebin.com/LVSt4tfN

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[07:21:34]

Beirdo:

anyone have much experience with vizio LCDs?

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bjd:

so, i've connected a dvi to hdmi cable to my tv and connected speaker out to the RCA sockets – any obvious gotchas with the sound i should be looking at?

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mattwj2002:

good morning all

[09:26:53]

mattwj2002:

I am having some problems with myexport

[09:27:16]

mattwj2002:

it makes the files fine enough

[09:27:40]

mattwj2002:

but itunes doesn't seem to like them

[09:27:42]

mattwj2002:

:(

[09:28:19]

mattwj2002:

any help would be a appreciated

[09:29:45]

mattwj2002:

does anyone know if the ipod touch accepts h264 or if it is only mpeg4?

[09:33:34]

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[09:52:41]

GlemSom:

I have a XML file, which for most programs has two title elements... Since coverarts seems to prefer the original title (english), I'll like to try to use that instead. Is there a way to configure mythfilldatabase to prefer the English title over the Danish? example from XML file -> http://pastebin.com/LVSt4tfN

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[11:22:29]

GlemSom:

Themes like graphite and mythbuntu seems to download fanart on the fly, where is that configured ?

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markcs:

Hi All... I hope someone can help me! I have an issue with suspend/resume on a Mythbox with combined FE/BE ... on resume, the frontend is unable to contact the backend. both are running and killing the FE or BE does not help. Anyone seen something similar?

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[13:06:47]

Azelphur:

curiosity question, is there any reason MythTV's interface doesn't look as cool as XBMC's?

[13:07:02]

Azelphur:

would a new frontend be needed or is it just that there are no cool animated themes yet

[13:07:13]

GreyFoxx:

Because you haven't written the themes for it :)

[13:07:19]

Azelphur:

haha :D

[13:07:28]

Azelphur:

so you can do animated slidey things with mythtv's theme engine?

[13:07:49]

GreyFoxx:

Personally, while I do find some of the individual xbmc screens nice, overall I don't like th elook of it

[13:08:11]

GreyFoxx:

I know there is some sort of animation support, but I don't know specific what or how comprehensive it is

[13:08:18]

Azelphur:

I see

[13:09:17]

GreyFoxx:

there is a #mythtv-theming channel which might be able to help you

[13:09:51]

Azelphur:

cool :)

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[13:30:04]

wagnerrp:

markcs... waited a whole eight minutes for a response

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[13:50:50]

Jay2k1:

that's more patience than the average user has

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[14:04:48]

justinh:

Azelphur: yeah, way to spit on everything the mythui guys have done. As for animation & stuff, there's no parsing of XML to enable it, so there's a whole load of code work to be done.

[14:05:45]

wagnerrp:

and to be honest, animations are a bit difficult if not making opengl a requirement

[14:05:46]

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[14:06:05]

justinh:

mythtv now looks WAY better than it ever has, and so what if it's not got an animated UI. All the times I've ever tried out XBMC I found the animations slow & hogged my CPU – dual core 1.6Ghz shouldn't be any slouch with what is really just a glorified file browser

[14:06:14]

wagnerrp:

xbmc took the easy(ish) route of dropping all other painter formats

[14:06:51]

justinh:

if myth was to drop its custom painters altogether it could quite easily use all the neat stuff in qt

[14:06:58]

justinh:

but that's not gonna happen any time soon

[14:07:21]

justinh:

qt animation stuff needn't rely on gl either though

[14:07:46]

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[14:08:59]

justinh:

saw a demo a while back where they had a simple tickbox to enable/disable opengl usage :)

[14:09:06]

Azelphur:

justinh: hey I didn't drop anything, you'll notice my first question was if it's a mythtv limitation or if the themers just havn't done it yet

[14:09:16]

Azelphur:

I was just wondering what the hold up is :P

[14:09:23]

justinh:

*contributions*

[14:09:25]

justinh:

as per usual

[14:09:27]

justinh:

so get busy

[14:09:49]

Azelphur:

indeed, I'm not much of a programmer but if it was just a theme thing I might be interested in having a go at it at some point

[14:09:54]

Azelphur:

maybe porting one of the nicer xbmc themes over

[14:09:58]

justinh:

meh

[14:10:27]

justinh:

I'm also 'not much of a programmer' but it's never stopped me having a go :)

[14:10:47]

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[14:11:49]

justinh:

AFAIK the existing animation stuff (movement & junk) just needs XML parsing wired up, though since that was put in a lot has changed

[14:13:36]

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[14:15:42]

Azelphur:

fun

[14:15:48]

justinh:

http://miffteevee.co.uk/documentation/develop . . . hUIType.html

[14:16:25]

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[14:16:25]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel

[14:16:44]

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[14:16:50]

justinh:

I started working on extra effects like rotation – which I got working – and blur.. which I never did get working. That was ages ago though, before the work markk did on converting the OSD to mythui

[14:17:20]

Azelphur:

sounds cool :D

[14:17:29]

Azelphur:

It'd be nice to see a theme with those kinds of effects

[14:17:41]

Azelphur:

Speaking as a compiz using eye candy lover xD

[14:17:56]

justinh:

I'm all for them, so long as they don't get in the way

[14:18:06]

Azelphur:

:)

[14:18:27]

justinh:

I keep going on about how underwhelmed by XBMC I've been. I don't care if stuff whizzes off the screen in a fancy way if the screen is blank for half a second til the next lot comes in

[14:18:39]

Azelphur:

haha

[14:18:51]

Azelphur:

yea I'd never switch to xbmc it lacks the features I need

[14:18:58]

justinh:

and even leaving XBMC on its main screen my CPU is at 50% while a scroller goes by

[14:19:07]

Azelphur:

but I do think it looks very nice visually, I also think it's metadata stuff is better

[14:19:23]

Azelphur:

haha wow

[14:19:26]

justinh:

open source projects only ever get improved one way. CONTRIBUTIONS

[14:19:27]

Azelphur:

power eater :p

[14:19:34]

Azelphur:

yup :D

[14:19:43]

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[14:20:04]

justinh:

various people have UI animation in their sites, but nobody seems to have enough time or motivation.. or there are simply more important things on the menu

[14:20:10]

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[14:20:58]

stuartm:

sights :p

[14:21:09]

justinh:

oops :)

[14:21:13]

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[14:21:24]

stuartm:

but yeah, my list is ridiculously long

[14:21:38]

Azelphur:

hehe, it'll probably end up happening at some point then :)

[14:21:51]

justinh:

I might get a chance to resurrect the stuff I was working on at some point

[14:22:08]

stuartm:

and though I can't really justify it, I'm feeling the urge to create another theme

[14:22:12]

joakim_:

Hi, I have a problem to get the sound to work properly on my newly bought ASrock ION 330, Id like to use the HDMI sound, and if nott posible then the regular "green" connector on the backside any one knows any good howtos I have not found any when googeling :-(

[14:22:14]

justinh:

might even beat XBMC to a nice guassian blur :)

[14:23:33]

stuartm:

justinh: there is some relatively simple stuff that would still bring significant improvements

[14:24:29]

justinh:

then people will whine that we improved the UI & not fixed bugs they see as important :P

[14:25:11]

stuartm:

but the real issue is doing it properly, because of time constraints a lot of the effects I initially added weren't done properly using GL where appropriate and I'm now concerned that people will follow my bad example :/

[14:26:05]

justinh:

I think having to replicate everything in all of the painters would be a big dampener on motivation for some (like me)

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[14:28:06]

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[14:28:29]

stuartm:

well some effects can only be done in hardware, so they only need to be implemented in the gl painter

[14:28:44]

stuartm:

s/done/done efficiently/

[14:28:49]

justinh:

Azelphur: I can heartily recommend getting stuck in. I had awesome fun messing about

[14:29:05]

justinh:

I still have some interesting looking screenshots on this laptop's linux partition

[14:29:22]

Azelphur:

yea I may well do, I'm working on another project atm but maybe after I'm done with this I can play with it :)

[14:29:23]

justinh:

where the rotation code was going spectacularly wrong :D

[14:29:30]

Azelphur:

haha

[14:29:33]

Azelphur:

bloopers are fun \o/

[14:30:36]

justinh:

well they *can* be fun

[14:30:36]

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[14:30:38]

Azelphur:

fun blooper from when I was trying to get my mythtv powered joggler (digital photo frame type thing) to work, http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/2010-04-19%2021.32.32.jpg

[14:30:39]

Azelphur:

xD

[14:31:04]

Azelphur:

and yes, that's the power cable dangling in front of the screen and it doesn't have a battery – it's defying the laws of physics.

[14:31:09]

justinh:

My joggler is lying in its box, formant

[14:31:16]

Azelphur:

hehe

[14:31:17]

justinh:

dormant, even

[14:31:18]

stuartm:

theming didn't exactly take off like I'd hoped it would, we need more good themes, really we could use some graphic artists taking interest

[14:31:20]

Azelphur:

did you see the video of what I did to mine?

[14:31:41]

justinh:

dunno, dustybin sometimes posts various things I tend to ignore

[14:31:49]

Azelphur:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgwjPRBAFrU :)

[14:32:10]

justinh:

stuartm: I still have a load of work to do on my latest effort. might release it one day

[14:32:25]

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[14:32:26]

justinh:

I don't mind releasing it – just don't want to do ANY support of any kind

[14:32:50]

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[14:32:52]

stuartm:

"Joggler running mythtv with gesture support" rofl, how did that work out? Since I've never actually finished adding mouse/gesture support I'm guessing it was hit and miss

[14:33:07]

stuartm:

justinh: donate it anonymously ;)

[14:33:10]

justinh:

prolly a flash overlay

[14:33:33]

justinh:

I had mythfrontend on mine, but getting video to play smoothly on that crap intel video hardware is a pain

[14:33:43]

justinh:

that is – smooth without tearing

[14:33:59]

Azelphur:

stuartm: well as you can see it seems to work fine :)

[14:34:05]

Azelphur:

I just used easy stroke to send keystrokes to mythtv

[14:34:34]

justinh:

gonna use mine as nothing more than a thingy player for music

[14:34:48]

justinh:

I say thingy cos I can't remember what the music effigy is called

[14:34:49]

stuartm:

Azelphur: ahh, well we have a rudimentary gesture support in mythui, but it needs a lot of work

[14:35:13]

Azelphur:

ah cool

[14:35:15]

justinh:

see, IMHO if more people concentrated on fixing little things wrong with mythtv instead of using workarounds...

[14:35:25]

Azelphur:

I never knew it existed

[14:35:26]

justinh:

but hey, that's users for ya

[14:35:29]

Azelphur:

I did come here and talk about it at the time

[14:35:57]

Azelphur:

tbh I don't think it's needed though, might aswell easystroke, it's perfect for the job

[14:35:57]

stuartm:

it's not hooked up in many places and there is no UI to actually configure it in a meaningful way

[14:36:14]

Azelphur:

improvements are cool, reinventing what's already out there not so much

[14:36:28]

justinh:

time for dog walking

[14:36:34]

stuartm:

I swore I'd port my OSD play controls to the new OSD, but I haven't yet :/

[14:36:37]

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[14:36:40]

Azelphur:

time for shower :p

[14:37:14]

stuartm:

Azelphur: any solution in mythfrontend would work across all platforms and require no setup/config

[14:37:28]

Azelphur:

good point

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[14:43:03]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: it works just fine, if you dont mind everything triggering 'up' :)

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[14:45:07]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: aye, the actual logic is pretty busted

[14:45:54]

stuartm:

we need to lift some logic from elsewhere and drop it in

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[15:06:28]

justinh:

squeezeplayer. that's what the music thingy is called :)

[15:06:36]

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[15:06:47]

justinh:

memory is like a seive these days

[15:08:14]

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[15:08:26]

guysoft42:

hi all, might anyone know what package i am missing to compile mythtv with opengl support? (i have nvidia if its related)

[15:09:01]

justinh:

on what distro?

[15:09:18]

guysoft42:

justdave, debian

[15:09:28]

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[15:09:32]

guysoft42:

justinh, * (sorry justdave )

[15:09:40]

Azelphur:

<dumb question> doesn't debian have apt-get build-dep?

[15:09:40]

justdave:

:) happens all the time, no worries

[15:09:42]

justinh:

no build-dep for you?

[15:10:05]

guysoft42:

justdave, i am building from trunk.. i want to check the last stuff, compare to last year something

[15:10:24]

Azelphur:

guysoft42: yes but if you use apt-get build-dep it'll get all the dependencies so you can build trunk

[15:10:32]

justdave:

90% of my hilights on this channel are intended for justinh, he's way more popular than me and people don't hit tab enough times. :)

[15:10:47]

guysoft42:

justinh, our country apparently during this year started to broadcast a EPG over DVB-T.. i can see it in VLC. i want to see if mythtv sees it

[15:11:02]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, ill have a go

[15:11:06]

Azelphur:

:)

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[15:11:24]

justinh:

justdave: if I could think of a better nick I would :)

[15:11:27]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, yes that did it :)

[15:11:31]

Azelphur:

hehe

[15:11:34]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, i thought the open-gl was optional

[15:11:47]

Azelphur:

my name came from a random name generator I wrote in python.

[15:11:49]

guysoft42:

.. i guess i am a bit of an idiot not to think of it really,

[15:12:16]

guysoft42:

ah heck, i just hope i didnt break anything

[15:12:44]

guysoft42:

The following packages will be REMOVED: nvidia-glx-dev

[15:13:46]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, mine is because i was young and stupid..

[15:13:52]

Azelphur:

hehe

[15:15:28]

guysoft42:

hmm, it will not compile with opengl still, ill try with flags

[15:15:48]

guysoft42:

still not compiling with opengl :( : ./configure --enable-vdpau --enable-opengl-video --enable-opengl-vsync

[15:15:53]

guysoft42:

and installed the build-dep

[15:16:43]

justinh:

ahh. wonder if bustydin is taken

[15:18:27]

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[15:29:04]

wagnerrp:

bleh

[15:29:10]

** wagnerrp hates debugging regular expressions **

[15:30:11]

wagnerrp:

accidentally type a bracket instead of a brace, and the whole thing breaks

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[15:53:14]

guysoft42:

um, is there a tool to build a debian package out of mythtv-trunk?

[15:54:01]

guysoft42:

checkinstall wont work

[15:55:46]

blizzard_:

question, what should I do with nuvexport when it gives me this error message:

[15:55:50]

blizzard_:

This host not configured for myth.

[15:55:58]

blizzard_:

havnt tried it earlier

[16:00:34]

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[17:17:03]

guysoft42:

um, anyone ever had this?: [mythtv]$ mythtv-setup

[17:17:04]

guysoft42:

mythtv-setup: error while loading shared libraries: libva-0.31.0.6.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

[17:17:56]

wagnerrp:

hazards of running trunk

[17:18:10]

guysoft42:

wagnerrp, um, anything one can do about it?

[17:18:24]

wagnerrp:

re-link

[17:18:45]

Beirdo:

is that library in /usr/local/lib?

[17:19:11]

wagnerrp:

you built your mythtv against a library that has apparently been updated and removed

[17:19:29]

Beirdo:

if so, you may need to add /usr/local/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf

[17:19:33]

wagnerrp:

unless you didnt actually build your own mythtv, in which case you probably shouldnt be running trunk

[17:20:03]

guysoft42:

Beirdo, tried linking, no luck.. according to strace its looking in strange places

[17:20:26]

guysoft42:

wagnerrp, i did build it from source

[17:20:34]

Beirdo:

ls -al /usr/local/lib/libva*

[17:21:02]

iamlindoro:

that would be running trunk AND unsupported patches

[17:21:07]

wagnerrp:

i didnt notice the vaapi stuff had gone in yet, or is that with the patch from trunk?

[17:21:10]

wagnerrp:

erm.. trac

[17:21:18]

Beirdo:

that too

[17:21:21]

iamlindoro:

has not yet been applied

[17:21:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[17:21:33]

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[17:21:39]

Beirdo:

pretty sure it has not gone in yet

[17:21:40]

wagnerrp:

i thought maybe i had missed it in the flurry of activity in the past day

[17:21:54]

** guysoft42 will do it later, no time now **

[17:22:17]

Beirdo:

no time to do an ls?!

[17:22:22]

Beirdo:

jeez

[17:22:26]

bjd:

vaapi?

[17:22:55]

iamlindoro:

bjd: Will be supported in .24, but the code has not yet been committed

[17:22:56]

wagnerrp:

there are (preliminary) vaapi support patches on trac

[17:23:16]

wagnerrp:

supposedly works, but not well tested

[17:23:17]

iamlindoro:

that said, our video output guru, who I trust above all others, declares that VA-API is far, far, far from ready for primetime

[17:23:35]

iamlindoro:

ie, the libs are very crashy, the drivers crash, the API is fairly broken, etc.

[17:23:38]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: the patches? or the API itself?

[17:23:42]

wagnerrp:

ah

[17:23:49]

iamlindoro:

all of that outside of Myth's control (but which we would have to tackle support and bug reports for)

[17:24:08]

bjd:

ah, video acceleration :)

[17:24:43]

sphery:

on the bright side, you can buy a CPU that can do software decoding of most any content you're likely to encounter :)

[17:25:46]

sphery:

strangely enough, software decoding--that is decoding where the FLOSS community can fix bugs--works great, even though the built-into-proprietary-drivers-and-hardware decoding still has some issues...

[17:25:50]

sphery:

:)

[17:26:39]

justinh:

muhhhhhhhhhhhhh, but me want decode VC-1 on my plugtop :-(

[17:26:48]

justinh:

;-)

[17:27:17]

sphery:

Oh, yeah, and VCD accel...

[17:27:28]

sphery:

I need that for my frontend

[17:27:46]

wagnerrp:

yes, because plug computers need hardware acceleration even for VCDs

[17:27:55]

justinh:

lol

[17:27:57]

wagnerrp:

arent those mpeg1? limited to like 1mbps?

[17:28:05]

sphery:

yeah

[17:28:17]

justinh:

heck even an epia has trouble playing VCDs without xvmc

[17:28:26]

Beirdo:

they are limited to the same total bitrate as analog audio

[17:28:27]

sphery:

1150 kbit/sec MPEG-1

[17:28:34]

sphery:

it really stresses my system

[17:28:57]

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[17:29:16]

** Beirdo yawns **

[17:29:23]

wagnerrp:

sphery: always down-trodding on hardware decoding... youre just another brick in the wall

[17:29:28]

sphery:

heh

[17:29:40]

sphery:

I just know who to trust

[17:29:56]

wagnerrp:

now go eat your meat!

[17:29:58]

sphery:

and it isn't the companies that keep EOL'ing their hardware support

[17:30:32]

sphery:

one of which does so /very/ fast (*cough*AMD)

[17:31:24]

guysoft42:

Beirdo, did that, not working. um, its looking in strange places, check out the strace output: http://pastebin.org/476007

[17:32:45]

atrus:

wouldn't it be nice to just pass the video/audio rendering off to a different system? something like gstreamer? then the hardware acceleration stuff is abstracted away, and common to all the apps that use it...

[17:32:49]

Beirdo:

looks like you don't have vaapi libraries installed. Why are you building vaapi?

[17:33:08]

Beirdo:

atrus: blech!

[17:34:04]

guysoft42:

i have libva1 installed

[17:34:15]

guysoft42:

has /usr/lib/libva.so.1.0.1

[17:34:39]

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[17:35:01]

Beirdo:

then you need to recompile, relink

[17:35:02]

iamlindoro:

atrus: We have far more decode and hardware accel support than gstreamer does, not to mention we need to do a lot more than just render the audio, we need access to the decoder libs for lots of stuff having nothing to do with presentation, something that gstreamer can't offer us

[17:35:09]

iamlindoro:

atrus: Not to mention cross-platform support

[17:35:23]

Beirdo:

and... gstreamer is gtk

[17:35:40]

Beirdo:

relying on both Qt and gtk in one program? Are ya nuts? :)

[17:36:55]

** iamlindoro doesn't understand why people want to throw away the best and most venerable source of codec support in favor of OOOH SHINY **

[17:37:12]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:37:25]

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[17:37:32]

Beirdo:

I've wondered the same about rendering engines :)

[17:37:38]

iamlindoro:

conparing gstreamer to libav* is like comparing a paper airplane to an F-22 Raptor

[17:37:41]

iamlindoro:

er comparing

[17:37:49]

Beirdo:

yeah, seriously

[17:38:09]

iamlindoro:

They're the same in that both can fly through the air

[17:39:14]

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[17:39:34]

wagnerrp:

i never understood why my qt packages want to pull in gstreamer

[17:39:36]

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[17:39:53]

wagnerrp:

just seems... wrong, to me

[17:40:02]

sphery:

but you know there's a gst-ffmpeg plug in for gstreamer

[17:40:07]

sphery:

;)

[17:40:31]

sphery:

wagnerrp: I think they're using it for the audio support

[17:40:38]

Beirdo:

a brick can fly through the air too

[17:41:01]

sphery:

and it seems the video stuff, too

[17:41:06]

atrus:

iamlindoro: (shrug) gstreamer apps always seem to work more reliably for me than mythtv.

[17:41:10]

wagnerrp:

sphery: yes, but Qt pulling in a library that relies on gtk?

[17:41:16]

wagnerrp:

like beirdo said, its just nuts

[17:41:21]

sphery:

http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/phonon-overview.html

[17:41:27]

sphery:

agreed, though

[17:41:59]

Beirdo:

atrus: ever put in a ticket when you found problems?

[17:42:02]

wagnerrp:

atrus: the simple fact is that mythtv, at its core, is built around ffmpeg

[17:42:12]

wagnerrp:

heck, we even use their configure script

[17:42:22]

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[17:42:48]

wagnerrp:

ripping out ffmpeg and replacing it with gstreamer would be more upsetting to the project than the Qt4, MythUI and MythOSD rewrites combined

[17:42:50]

** sphery wonders how much of the non-reliability of MythTV is related to not-fully/properly-configured **

[17:42:52]

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[17:43:27]

skd5aner:

I would say some, but not most

[17:43:48]

wagnerrp:

sphery: this the ATI driver issues? http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=a9sjli&s=4

[17:44:09]

sphery:

don't know

[17:44:09]

atrus:

Beirdo: yeah, everybody just blames pulseaudio.

[17:44:32]

wagnerrp:

atrus: for a good deal of the audio and a/v sync issues people encounter, that is to blame

[17:44:38]

justinh:

there could be a good reason for that ;-)

[17:44:39]

wagnerrp:

that should all be resolved for 0.24

[17:44:49]

Beirdo:

pulseaudio is craptacular :)

[17:44:54]

atrus:

wagnerrp: i'm on 0.24 now. stuttering, static, nasty stuff.

[17:45:05]

wagnerrp:

youre on trunk now

[17:45:08]

wagnerrp:

the development version

[17:45:12]

atrus:

well, yeah.

[17:45:12]

wagnerrp:

you should expect issues

[17:45:15]

Beirdo:

there is no 0.24 now

[17:45:16]

sphery:

resolved = works well enough that the people who don't see why pulse audio is so wrong won't complain?

[17:45:34]

atrus:

anyways, the gstreamer-based video playback stuff is awesome. great sync, great audio mixing with other apps. perfect.

[17:45:39]

wagnerrp:

if youre having audio problems on trunk, file a ticket

[17:45:40]

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[17:45:45]

wagnerrp:

we cant fix things if you dont file a ticket

[17:45:52]

justinh:

why do you need audio mixing with other apps anyway? ADHD?

[17:45:55]

kormoc:

atrus, because they don't support audio compression/expansion....

[17:46:34]

wagnerrp:

justinh: because you buy el-cheapo sound cards with poor drivers

[17:46:55]

sphery:

heh: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1727694/apple-tv-hd <-- the perfect mythfrontend box?

[17:47:10]

atrus:

kormoc: how do you mean? i use a gstreamer player on the video files mythtv stores, and get great playback, with conversion to 5.1 where neccesary.

[17:47:25]

wagnerrp:

!trout dustysphery just-stop-it

[17:47:25]

** MythLogBot slaps dustysphery with a just-stop-it trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **

[17:47:28]

wagnerrp:

:P

[17:47:28]

justinh:

anyway have you seen the 'app vol control' thing? it's *awful*

[17:47:30]

kormoc:

atrus, gstreamer doesn't allow you to time stretch

[17:47:54]

justinh:

and, gstreamer is just being pimped to *sell* codecs

[17:47:54]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: werent you going to kick someone when they said that again?

[17:48:02]

kormoc:

atrus, it might be a feature you don't use, but it's one a lot of folks do, and because of it, pulse audio really sucks for myth

[17:48:22]

kormoc:

atrus, pulse audio's official stance is we should drop the feature

[17:48:25]

atrus:

wagnerrp: so, it's the same problem as in http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8237

[17:48:27]

justinh:

timestretch & arbitrary time skipping are the primary reasons we use mythtv here :)

[17:48:40]

iamlindoro:

What'd he say?

[17:48:42]

** iamlindoro goes to look **

[17:48:58]

atrus:

justinh: i love the per-app volume control, but that's irrelevant.

[17:49:01]

wagnerrp:

'the perfect mythfrontend box'

[17:49:09]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[17:49:18]

dustybin has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (dustybin)

[17:49:22]

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[17:49:23]

iamlindoro:

I assume it was him

[17:49:26]

iamlindoro:

didn't bother to check

[17:49:29]

sphery:

heh, was me

[17:49:30]

wagnerrp:

HAHAH... no, sphery said it

[17:49:43]

sphery has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (sphery)

[17:49:52]

iamlindoro has been kicked from #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!~iamlindor@unaffiliated/iamlindoro (iamlindoro)

[17:49:52]

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[17:50:00]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -o iamlindoro

[17:50:06]

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[17:50:14]

wagnerrp:

poor guy, for once he actually didnt do anything... :)

[17:50:33]

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[17:50:33]

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[17:50:46]

iamlindoro:

sphery: FWIW I kicked myself after ;)

[17:50:50]

sphery:

I promise to behave, now

[17:50:53]

iamlindoro:

hah

[17:51:03]

kormoc:

what was said?

[17:51:05]

wagnerrp:

i thought the ATV-HD was using the crystalhd stuff

[17:51:13]

iamlindoro:

"perfect frontend system"

[17:51:15]

iamlindoro:

it's a banned phrase

[17:51:17]

sphery:

I just thought an Apple TV that's using an iPhone A4 chip and can't do 1080p playback was perfect...

[17:51:19]

kormoc:

ahh

[17:51:24]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:51:29]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: One can add it, it's not stock

[17:51:34]

atrus:

so, is there a way to reopen/unlock a ticket? or should i just file a new one?

[17:51:41]

Beirdo:

I'll "perfect frontend system" you!

[17:51:41]

iamlindoro:

atrus: What ticket?

[17:51:44]

sphery:

note I stopped after perfect this time

[17:51:54]

stuartm:

why do we always seem to attract people who think they know better about the development of MythTV than the developers do, that we should use <insert favourite framework, lib or app here> instead of what we currently do? especially when the recommendations are normally so inappropriate

[17:51:54]

atrus:

iamlindoro: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8237

[17:52:23]

wagnerrp:

that ticket is against 0.23, prior to the pulseaudio support

[17:52:27]

Beirdo:

stuartm: and especially when they aren't willing to do the work to do it :)

[17:52:29]

wagnerrp:

open a new ticket, as its a different issue

[17:52:38]

kormoc:

stuartm, cause we're developers not *managers* and everyone knows developers can't do anything without a few dozen managerial layers above them

[17:52:50]

wagnerrp:

or at least a similar issue against completely different code

[17:53:02]

atrus:

stuartm: so, i know nothing about mythtv internals. all i know is everything else i have works great with pulseaudio, but mythtv dies terribly. i would appreciate any solution that worked. letting somebody else handle it, where they've shown to handle it well so far, would be a solution to me. that's it.

[17:53:47]

wagnerrp:

atrus: thats because mythtv uses aspects of ALSA that most people dont, and as such pulseaudio feels theyre worthless and wont duplicate them

[17:54:07]

wagnerrp:

as such, their ALSA support is incomplete/broken

[17:54:15]

stuartm:

we brought onboard a die-hard fan of pulseaudio a while back, once he actually faced the realities of PA even he now recommends that it's not used

[17:54:33]

stuartm:

PA is just a train wreck

[17:54:46]

Beirdo:

Pennsylvania? :)

[17:54:51]

kormoc:

Beirdo, both

[17:55:09]

Beirdo:

heh, still better than NJ

[17:55:25]

sphery:

heh

[17:55:26]

AndrewNC:

it is always sunny there

[17:55:29]

kormoc:

atrus, so it's a choice between features *a lot* of people use and love or pulse audio....

[17:55:34]

wagnerrp:

the entire state of NJ has an inferiority complex

[17:55:38]

kormoc:

AndrewNC, only in philly

[17:55:39]

Beirdo:

it's raining in Philly right now

[17:55:48]

Beirdo:

according to a coworker there :)

[17:56:12]

Beirdo:

but the TV knows best, so it must actually be sunny

[17:56:37]

AndrewNC:

yeah, I'll go with Charlie, Mac, Dennis and Dee on that one

[17:56:58]

stuartm:

as wagnerrp states, PA just ignores and is incompatible with a number of features, but by far it's biggest problem is that it doesn't work with the Alsa API itself, so you sacrifice features for the sake of middleware which is doing something in userland than should be in the kernel (and is painfully slow)

[17:57:04]

** Beirdo puts some more Metallica onto his workstation for drowning out cow-workers **

[17:57:07]

AndrewNC:

and if you haven't seen their christmas episode, watch it

[17:57:17]

wagnerrp:

ooh, cow-workers

[17:57:27]

stuartm:

just don't get me started on gstreamer

[17:57:33]

Beirdo:

hehe

[17:57:50]

wagnerrp:

gsteamer

[17:58:00]

wagnerrp:

must have come out of one of them cow-workers

[17:58:06]

atrus (atrus!~atrus@173.234.8.171) has left #mythtv-users ("Ex-Chat")

[17:58:15]

kormoc:

we scared him away

[17:58:33]

kormoc:

or perhaps he's going to go get help from the PA Death Squads

[17:58:48]

AndrewNC:

if you thought PA was great, Lennart is now replacing init

[17:58:58]

Beirdo:

too late

[17:59:05]

kormoc:

upstart already replaced init!

[17:59:06]

Beirdo:

upstart already messed that up

[17:59:13]

Beirdo:

jinx ;)

[17:59:18]

AndrewNC:

he is replacing upstart as well (in Fedora)

[17:59:22]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

And systemd will replace upstart

[17:59:35]

Beirdo:

and then sysvinit will replace upstart, I hope

[17:59:39]

Beirdo:

screw upstart

[17:59:47]

AndrewNC:

upstart sounded great when I read about it, but in practice not as much

[17:59:47]

kormoc:

oh lord

[17:59:56]

kormoc:

kill it all

[18:00:01]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:00:06]

AndrewNC:

yeah srsly autoexec.bat for life!

[18:00:14]

kormoc:

you can take my posix from my cold dead hands

[18:00:15]

Beirdo:

just drag it all into the Startup menu

[18:00:23]

sphery:

kormoc: ++

[18:00:24]

AndrewNC:

/boot/config.sys

[18:00:26]

wagnerrp:

whats this? windows?

[18:00:32]

wagnerrp:

your slashes are the wrong direction

[18:00:44]

Beirdo:

\boot\to\the\head

[18:00:54]

sphery:

kormoc: if we release a new release called sys6init, everyone will start using it since it has a bigger number

[18:01:01]

AndrewNC:

maybe /boot/win.ini heh

[18:01:06]

kormoc:

sphery, ooh! good idea

[18:01:07]

sphery:

after all, isn't that what it's all about?

[18:01:18]

Beirdo:

initextreme

[18:01:26]

AndrewNC:

sphery: counterpoint: IPv6

[18:01:35]

sphery:

AndrewNC: point taken

[18:01:42]

Beirdo:

IPv6 is your friend, infidels :)

[18:01:52]

sphery:

only weirdos ( Beirdos ) use IPv6

[18:02:12]

AndrewNC:

I can't memorize that many octets, it is strange and unfamiliar

[18:02:21]

Beirdo:

wah wah:)

[18:02:33]

sphery:

I'm waiting 'til I run out of addresses on my Class A subnet for my home network before I switch

[18:02:34]

Beirdo:

but I can give an IP to everything I own if I cared to

[18:02:47]

Beirdo:

publicly routed IPs :)

[18:02:58]

AndrewNC:

every process can have its own IP

[18:03:11]

AndrewNC:

hell, every thread!

[18:03:19]

Beirdo:

it's good for SSL virtual hosts :)

[18:03:21]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:03:21]

kormoc:

AndrewNC, what about my 2048 bit process table

[18:03:26]

sphery:

oooh, we could add so many new confusing settings to mythtv that way....

[18:03:34]

Beirdo:

oO

[18:03:47]

Beirdo:

I may well add IPv6 support some decade

[18:03:52]

Beirdo:

it shouldn't be hard

[18:04:02]

kormoc:

famous last words

[18:04:08]

sphery:

local mythbackend IP address... local mythfrontend IP address... local mythtranscode IP address... local mythpreviewgen IP address...

[18:04:18]

AndrewNC:

exactly, run your theme behind NAT and firewall your certificates, CSI style!

[18:04:25]

Beirdo:

I said "shouldn't", not "won't"

[18:04:35]

sphery:

I think, really, we "have" IPv6 support now--just that we make a lot of IPv4 assumptions

[18:04:38]

kormoc:

I want to be able to address each electron in my processor!

[18:05:05]

Beirdo:

sphery: not so sure, but you could be right

[18:05:05]

AndrewNC:

if every GUI object doesn't have a unique IP, you aren't fanatic enough

[18:05:12]

Beirdo:

bah

[18:05:22]

sphery:

Beirdo: just meant that Qt4 should provide IPv6 support

[18:05:29]

Beirdo:

ahh, yeah, it should

[18:05:38]

sphery:

so it's just a matter of fixing all our assumptions in our usage of IP addresses for things

[18:05:41]

kormoc:

Mmm... Piroshky Piroshky

[18:05:43]

Beirdo:

yup

[18:05:50]

sphery:

kormoc: I want one!

[18:05:51]

Beirdo:

kormoc: on 3rd?

[18:06:10]

kormoc:

pike's market

[18:06:14]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[18:06:32]

Beirdo:

I see a Pirogy place on 3rd on the way home, never been in htere

[18:06:47]

Beirdo:

couldn't remember the name :)

[18:07:54]

kormoc:

Pirogy != Piroshky ya know

[18:08:12]

kormoc:

sphery, you should move to the wonderful fog filled Seattle and then you can have as many Piroshky Piroshky's as you want!

[18:08:28]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: careful, i hear the Arquillians frequent those places

[18:08:33]

wagnerrp:

might have to contend with bugs

[18:08:53]

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[18:08:57]

sphery:

kormoc: heh, might be worth it for those

[18:09:12]

Beirdo:

tis a white day out today :)

[18:10:02]

kormoc:

it's burning off

[18:10:08]

kormoc:

will be bright and sunny shortly

[18:10:35]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: that guy sure loves his AC3

[18:10:39]

Beirdo:

just like Philly :)

[18:10:51]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: yeah. and dislikes learning

[18:10:53]

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[18:10:54]

guysoft42:

Beirdo, ok, recompiling

[18:11:01]

Beirdo:

or reading code, apparently

[18:11:02]

wagnerrp:

you should force it to use vorbis to spite him

[18:11:09]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:11:12]

kormoc:

Yay, Jaws II just ate a helicopter

[18:11:29]

wagnerrp:

i have to believe any hardware player that supports mkv also supports vorbis

[18:12:06]

Beirdo:

I'd LIKE to change nuvexport completely at some point... xris was saying something like it too...

[18:12:23]

Beirdo:

make it so you choose your container, choose your codecs, choose resolutions, etc

[18:12:24]

wagnerrp:

i demand you rewrite it in python

[18:12:29]

Beirdo:

rather than the way it is now

[18:12:43]

Beirdo:

I demand you... oh never mind :)

[18:12:48]

wagnerrp:

add a database table with encoding profiles?

[18:13:09]

wagnerrp:

dance?

[18:13:15]

sphery:

Beirdo: I heard someone already started a complete ground-up rewrite of nuvexport

[18:13:18]

sphery:

in bash

[18:13:33]

** Beirdo slaps sphery with a fresh salmon **

[18:13:37]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:13:40]

wagnerrp:

sphery: everyone knows bash was designed for handling video

[18:13:43]

sphery:

really, though, what is this mythexport thing a certain distro provides

[18:13:50]

kormoc:

"I'm encoding with Dawgson's uber dog profile v 2011-04–23 12:04:54 EST and it's not playing on my iphone!!!1!1!!1 This stuff sucks!!1!!11"

[18:13:53]

sphery:

isn't that a rewrite of nuvexport?

[18:14:02]

Beirdo:

probably

[18:14:11]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Think it's a web app of some sort

[18:14:16]

sphery:

ohhh...

[18:14:20]

iamlindoro:

web app frontend for one of the transcoders

[18:14:22]

sphery:

so more like the old MythStreamTV

[18:14:36]

sphery:

but maybe without the streaming

[18:14:38]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/wiki/MythExport

[18:14:56]

wagnerrp:

yeah, its designed specifically for use with mobile devices

[18:15:13]

sphery:

from that page, "ffmpeg no longer supports AAC encoding"... Maybe they should use gstreamer instead?

[18:15:25]

Beirdo:

what are they smoking

[18:15:27]

Beirdo:

sure it does

[18:15:34]

wagnerrp:

atomic parsley

[18:15:55]

Beirdo:

whether your anal distro does or not is the only question

[18:16:00]

sphery:

I think they may mean, "ffmpeg, the way we compile it to not include Debian-disapproved CODEC support, no longer supports AAC encoding"

[18:16:10]

kormoc:

Beirdo, Ubuntu is the *only* worthwhile standard in the world, dontcha know

[18:16:12]

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[18:16:23]

kormoc:

the rest just haven't seen the light yet

[18:16:32]

Beirdo:

kormoc: hehe, yeah well. It's the one I use, and AAC works fine :)

[18:16:36]

Beirdo:

medibuntu++

[18:16:38]

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[18:16:41]

kormoc:

and we'll make them soon enough... once it's illegal to run anything other then Ubuntu! MUHAHAHAHA

[18:16:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:16:50]

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[18:17:28]

Beirdo:

OK, L3 has until the end of this song to call back, or I pester them AGAIN

[18:17:30]

sphery:

perhaps they could sue IBM and Novell and Daimler Chrylser and claim that they all stole code from Ubuntu?

[18:17:57]

wagnerrp:

sco went after chrysler?

[18:17:58]

sphery:

Beirdo: if you want fast support, you need to go directly to Level 4

[18:18:05]

Beirdo:

hehe

[18:18:19]

sphery:

IIRC, SCO got paid an out-of-court settlement by them

[18:18:19]

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[18:18:26]

Beirdo:

their support is really level0

[18:18:34]

sphery:

heh

[18:20:27]

sphery:

wagnerrp: http://www.sco.com/scoip/lawsuits/daimlerchrysler/ + http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_v._DaimlerChrysler

[18:21:21]

sphery:

though guess there wasn't a settlement since DaimlerChrysler hadn't used *nix for over 7 years at the time of the suit

[18:22:23]

Beirdo:

no wonder Chryslers suck

[18:22:33]

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[18:24:05]

wagnerrp:

there they go again... new user on wiki talking about how 'downloaded hd videos and dvds' dont playback smoothly

[18:25:05]

sphery:

amazing how brazen people are--not only downloading them illegally, but putting proof in public archives/repositories

[18:25:06]

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[18:25:39]

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[18:26:16]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Sphery, ripping a DVD for fair use under US law is still a gray area, isn't it?

[18:26:24]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Downloaded HD content isn't, but...

[18:26:24]

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[18:26:52]

wagnerrp:

for private use, its technically illegal under DMCA, but it will be thrown out of court were it to ever go to court

[18:27:07]

wagnerrp:

but downloading copyrighted content of any sort is illegal, no way around that

[18:27:09]

kormoc:

Downloaded DVDs is a rather non-grey area, which is how I read it

[18:27:17]

** justinh mutters something about being able to prove somebody ripped a DVD themselves **

[18:27:49]

justinh:

but there's already precedent for people fessing up to movie downloading when the finger has been pointed at them

[18:28:14]

sphery:

and likely the "downloaded hd videos" is referring to copyrighted BluRay-rips, but it's not definite

[18:28:32]

sphery:

though I kind of doubt he meant "only Elephant's Dream and Big Buck Bunny"

[18:28:52]

wagnerrp:

i assumed the downloaded included 'hd videos and dvds'

[18:29:00]

justinh:

it's fair to say that a lot of freely downloadable stuff is junk :)

[18:29:09]

justinh:

s/freely/legally/

[18:29:22]

wagnerrp:

surely his hardware wasnt so old that it had trouble playing actual dvd video

[18:30:15]

justinh:

maybe it was a plugtop with USB monitor :-P

[18:30:32]

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[18:30:35]

justinh:

had to happen sooner or later.. the suppository PC

[18:30:45]

wagnerrp:

yes, people tend to have Arm and Via systems as 'old parts' they have laying around

[18:32:08]

wagnerrp:

is there any 'wiki behavior' page, like the irc channel rules?

[18:32:54]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Fun term.

[18:33:18]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, I proposed a working group to manage the wiki and other written efforts. I never heard back on that though.

[18:33:57]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Of course, hierarchically, I'm still a bit unsure I directed it to the right place.

[18:34:00]

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[18:34:04]

wagnerrp:

GadgetWisdomGuru: this is more along the lines of what form of content is allowed on the wiki

[18:35:18]

sphery:

users on -users list talking about how their in-DB data is broken in ways that can /never/ occur without direct DB editing

[18:35:44]

sphery:

fortunately, I've given up, so they're all free to break things /and/ tell others to break their systems similarly

[18:37:22]

wagnerrp:

'autozooming based on blackbar detection'... doesnt mythtv do that now?

[18:37:47]

iamlindoro:

yes

[18:37:50]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Wagnerrp, my point was that was one of the things I had thought an organized group outside of the development team could handle...admining the wiki for inappropriate content.

[18:38:05]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Free developers to well....develop.

[18:38:09]

wagnerrp:

who did you contact?

[18:38:18]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I sent it through the mythtv.org contact form.

[18:38:43]

iamlindoro:

could ping xris about it, he may just not have had a chance to send it on yet

[18:38:51]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

The only other means I could think of was a bug report, and a suggestion for having a group to maintain the documentation and admin the wiki didn't seem like a bug

[18:38:53]

wagnerrp:

well you may want to try discussing with Captain_Murdoch, xris, or janneg in here directly

[18:39:10]

iamlindoro:

Good instinct :)

[18:39:28]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I may try.

[18:39:45]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I think the idea has merit, because people in the community want to give back, but not everyone is a developer.

[18:39:55]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Or, on the theme side, artistically inclined.

[18:43:32]

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[18:44:57]

justinh:

GadgetWisdomGuru: fun, I tried kicking off a 'wiki week' a few years back, trying to encourage folks to get stuck in but AFAIK not much ever came of it. Think some Cattle-Prod-Over-IP is needed ;)

[18:45:05]

Igg-man:

The cable company is suspending analog service above channel 23

[18:45:06]

Igg-man:

argh

[18:46:19]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Justinh, my proposal was to create an 'official' group people can join, ie with a mailing list where posts go out saying..."The wiki page on ____ needs work and expansion. Who is willing to do it?" So on and so forth.

[18:46:46]

justinh:

pretty much the whole wiki needs an overhaul

[18:46:54]

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[18:46:59]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Justinh, agreed.

[18:47:03]

justinh:

there's a hell of a lot to get on top of

[18:47:10]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

Yes. I read the thing.

[18:47:14]

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[18:47:21]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

As I said yesterday.

[18:47:27]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I read the wiki, experiment, and think I know things.

[18:47:51]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I come in here, and all the knowledge compared to mine makes me look like a neophyte.

[18:48:03]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

That impresses me.

[18:49:28]

GadgetWisdomGuru:

I have to expand on that Mythweb on Nginx that someone I spoke to started for example.

[18:49:57]

guysoft42:

recompiled, no luck, still getting : mythtv-setup: error while loading shared libraries: libva-0.31.0.6.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

[18:50:23]

iamlindoro:

*remove the patches*

[18:50:37]

iamlindoro:

If you want to run unsupported code, it's fine, but it's just that

[18:52:23]

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[18:54:20]

Igg-man:

How is everybody recording HD content now? OTA, or something like the HD-PVR?

[18:54:24]

Beirdo:

not-yet-supported code is not yet supported

[18:54:25]

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[18:54:53]

wagnerrp:

digital tuners

[18:55:09]

Igg-man:

wagnerrp: do you get more than just the over the air stuff?

[18:55:09]

wagnerrp:

Igg-man: http://mythtv.org/wiki/Recording_Digital_Cable

[18:55:15]

wagnerrp:

no

[18:55:24]

Igg-man:

wagnerrp: I've got 3 digital tuners now, and 2 analog

[18:55:25]

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[18:55:34]

Igg-man:

I'm at that page now

[18:55:43]

Igg-man:

cable company is making some changes though

[18:56:04]

Igg-man:

I've only been able to get the over the air stuff digital though (via cable)

[18:56:14]

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[18:56:34]

iamlindoro:

which is exactly what one should expect with a digital tuner

[18:57:01]

wagnerrp:

Igg-man: see the silicon dust link on that page for what other people have gotten through your cable service

[18:57:20]

Igg-man:

that's what I already have :-)

[18:57:43]

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[18:58:10]

iamlindoro:

So if you want more, you will need an HD-PVR, assuming they don't leave firewire open, which in 90%+ of cases, they do not.

[18:58:17]

iamlindoro:

and, obviously, a cable box

[18:58:27]

Igg-man:

ick

[18:58:51]

Igg-man:

think I'm going to end up just dropping cable and using over-the-air, or just getting a DVR from dish or cable company

[18:59:12]

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[18:59:21]

iamlindoro:

If you don't care about the restrictions placed on your by those companies, that is a viable option

[18:59:49]

iamlindoro:

Myth is for people who want ultimate expandability and control of where, when, and how they consume their media-- if all you want is a DVR with all your channels, the one provided by your service is a better idea

[18:59:59]

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[19:00:05]

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[19:00:09]

Igg-man:

but it so crappy

[19:00:14]

Igg-man:

myth is so much better

[19:00:20]

iamlindoro:

obviously, we agree :)

[19:00:30]

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[19:00:31]

** rhpot1991 reads the scrollback about mythexport, decides he should clean up the wiki page with this upcoming release **

[19:00:35]

Igg-man:

I find it odd that the free software is much better than the DVR that the cable company charges $20/mo for

[19:01:46]

wagnerrp:

Igg-man: because the free software runs on real (non-embedded) hardware, and doesnt try to lock you out of accessing the content

[19:02:07]

wagnerrp:

both a benefit and detriment

[19:02:54]

Igg-man:

never thought of it that way

[19:03:15]

Igg-man:

well, it's been fun, but I probably won't be a myth user for too much longer

[19:03:31]

Igg-man:

I guess I could keep it up and capture the broadcast stuff

[19:03:40]

wagnerrp:

running on real hardware means you have far more capability and options, but you have a larger, louder, more expensive machine

[19:03:56]

Igg-man:

1.5TB RAID5

[19:04:08]

wagnerrp:

not restricting access means you can do whatever you want with the content, but also means that people arent going to allow you to access the content in the first place because you dont maintain restriction

[19:04:11]

Igg-man:

it's upstairs, got frontend boxes attached to the TVs

[19:05:43]

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[19:06:14]

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[19:07:40]

guysoft42:

ok, i manage to get all the links in mythtv-trunk, but now i am getting: mythtv-setup: symbol lookup error: mythtv-setup: undefined symbol: gCoreContext

[19:09:54]

iamlindoro:

sounds like a very broken build environment

[19:16:38]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, i think the envirement is fine, i have a feeling something exists from an old install

[19:16:46]

guysoft42:

think i found something, hang on

[19:18:16]

justinh:

how long have we all been waiting for somebody to make a halfway decent mythical convergence device now?

[19:18:46]

justinh:

15 years? I'm now starting to doubt we'll ever see one

[19:19:04]

skd5aner:

well, ebs and flows

[19:19:32]

justinh:

I mean a games emulator I can live without.. just a decent PVR would do me

[19:19:32]

skd5aner:

even myth has it's ups and downs... lots of stuff it used to "converge" and currently doesn't

[19:19:50]

justinh:

yeah well who wants their TV to be their telephone anyway?

[19:19:52]

stuartm:

truth is that we'll probably never see one, because people don't really want _everything_ in a single device

[19:20:15]

wagnerrp:

the iphone and android disagree

[19:20:19]

justinh:

I'll settle for a DVR which can play music & video from a network share & not have a sucky UI

[19:20:21]

skd5aner:

justinh: apparently samsung and lg think a few, since they now have skype integration in several of their IP capable TVs

[19:20:41]

justinh:

yeah I've seen webcam features on some

[19:20:57]

justinh:

it'd be a PITA if somebody called my wife when I'm watching something though

[19:21:05]

skd5aner:

heh :D

[19:21:23]

wagnerrp:

id like to see some statistics on just what demographic and how many people use videophones

[19:21:54]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: people think they want it all, but my experience is that they don't end up using all the features, they might own an iphone but they still buy a camera, or a laptop, or a PSP etc

[19:21:56]

justinh:

same here, and the same for video on demand on mobile devices

[19:22:04]

skd5aner:

just imagine when 911 (or whatever emergency equivalent is in the UK) having a video capabilility on their end you call them on your camera embedded tv...

[19:22:21]

skd5aner:

"ok, now... show me where the arrow penetrated the arm"

[19:22:24]

justinh:

the thing with so many multipurpose devices is, they never tend to be *excellent* at anything

[19:22:29]

wagnerrp:

im sitting on my couch, watching tv, in my boxers... i dont want a video call to go through

[19:23:18]

stuartm:

justinh: exactly and you drop your phone and you've just lost the ability to do anything as well

[19:23:21]

skd5aner:

at least you're *wearing* boxers

[19:23:36]

guysoft42:

ok got it!

[19:23:40]

justinh:

and have you seen the 'hd video' the new iCrap makes? mmm wobbly :-)

[19:24:00]

skd5aner:

justinh: apple already has the solution for that...

[19:24:05]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: would you prefer i take pictures of reflective objects to sell on ebay, wearing nothing?

[19:24:09]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, the reason was because there were deb packages with the prefix myth* installed, i searched only for mythtv*

[19:24:27]

justinh:

hence people commenting on a photo taken of a building, saying they can see the curvature of the Earth :P

[19:24:27]

skd5aner:

justinh: it's called iPhone 5, now with video stabilizing capabilty(TM)!

[19:25:09]

justinh:

ahh they need the UnLensDistort App (TM)

[19:25:19]

skd5aner:

wagnerrp: hehe, I wonder how many people have taken pics of reflective surfaces without realizing they'd come out on the other end of that being naked

[19:25:57]

justinh:

does my bum look big on this kettle?

[19:26:00]

skd5aner:

apple purposesly likes to leave a bit to long for... why do you think they didn't release a 3G phone to start out with?

[19:26:11]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: the electronic image stabilization of the iphone5 requires an attachment... http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/steadicam-parts.gif

[19:26:18]

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[19:26:26]

justinh:

yeh well I was tempted by the iPhone initially. Most definitely NOT now

[19:26:48]

skd5aner:

I've used one of those steadycam devices a few times back in the day... kind of cool how that stuff works

[19:26:49]

justinh:

as much as I hate my phone, at least it doesn't need charging more than once a week

[19:27:10]

skd5aner:

In 2 hours, I'll be the proud new owner of a droid 2, just released today ;)

[19:27:38]

skd5aner:

Now, if it tells you anything, my current device is over 3 years old – so I'm well over due

[19:28:00]

stuartm:

skd5aner: well it's like the story about Sony in Brazil, releasing the ancient PS2 just a few months ago, then releasing the PS3 – they've just stung all those PS2 buyers and made a tonne of money from all the people who end up paying twice

[19:28:08]

justinh:

feeding time :-)

[19:28:18]

skd5aner:

stuartm: ha, didn't hear about that

[19:28:36]

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[19:29:29]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: for what its worth, they were not selling the original PS3 that was actually able to play PS2 games

[19:29:37]

wagnerrp:

those are two independent platforms

[19:29:58]

wagnerrp:

the bigger issue is did you see the price they were charging???

[19:30:07]

skd5aner:

there are PS3s that don't play PS2 games?

[19:30:15]

wagnerrp:

skd5aner: most of em

[19:30:29]

wagnerrp:

only the first generation had real hardware compatibility

[19:30:37]

wagnerrp:

one or two more generations added emulation

[19:30:47]

wagnerrp:

but for several years, there has been no PS2 support

[19:31:03]

skd5aner:

hmmmm, so you can't put a PS2 disc in a current gen PS3?

[19:31:07]

wagnerrp:

no

[19:31:13]

skd5aner:

wow, didn't realize that...

[19:31:16]

wagnerrp:

well you /can/, but it dont do anything

[19:31:37]

skd5aner:

so, just the builtin emulator that can download PS2 games then?

[19:31:49]

wagnerrp:

eh?

[19:31:56]

wagnerrp:

never heard of that one

[19:31:58]

skd5aner:

you mentioned emulation

[19:32:04]

skd5aner:

that's what I assumed you were talking about

[19:32:14]

skd5aner:

kind of like the wii's legacy emulator

[19:32:29]

wagnerrp:

yes, in the later hardware after they removed the PS2 hardware, they emulated the PS2 on the Cell using code in the firmware

[19:32:32]

skd5aner:

I no just about nothing about the play station

[19:32:34]

wagnerrp:

that has since been removed as well

[19:32:55]

wagnerrp:

and it wasnt for downloadable games, it was only for physical disk support

[19:33:14]

skd5aner:

hmmm, that kinda of sucks... I was considering getting a PS3 a few years ago to play some old PS2 games I wanted to pick up on the cheap

[19:33:35]

wagnerrp:

just get a PS2, you can get them new for like $70

[19:33:50]

wagnerrp:

but you dont get the upconversion that the PS3 did

[19:33:50]

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[19:34:16]

skd5aner:

yea... I guess I just assumed. I knew the first gens supported it, because I had a family member that picked up one at launch and I remember playing old PS2 games on it too

[19:34:37]

skd5aner:

never researched after that to know it was removed... oh well

[19:34:44]

skd5aner:

wonder how much money that saved Sony?

[19:34:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, my roommate ended up playing the second half of FFXII on my PS3 after his PS2 died

[19:35:17]

wagnerrp:

maybe a few tens of dollars per unit

[19:35:29]

wagnerrp:

bigger issues were size and power consumption

[19:35:38]

wagnerrp:

the slims are about 1/3 the consumption of the original unit

[19:35:53]

wagnerrp:

although i dont understand why they couldnt maintain the emulation in the firmware

[19:36:02]

wagnerrp:

similarly, i dont understand why they removed linux support

[19:36:07]

wagnerrp:

but... so is life...

[19:36:23]

skd5aner:

yea, didn't they submit quite a few patches to the kernel at the time?

[19:36:46]

wagnerrp:

any likelihood the OSD popup is going to make it in time for 0.24?

[19:36:59]

wagnerrp:

someone did, but im guessing its more likely to be IBM

[19:37:23]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: You mean the mythnotify popup, or the generic notification widget?

[19:37:34]

wagnerrp:

the widget

[19:37:37]

iamlindoro:

the former probably (he mentioned it this morning), the latter I'd guess 0%

[19:37:44]

wagnerrp:

right now its listed in the frontend wishlist as 'planned for 0.24'

[19:38:05]

iamlindoro:

You can ask stuartm, but last I heard it had basically dropped off his list

[19:38:17]

wagnerrp:

doesnt the mythnotify stuff rely on the generic widget being written?

[19:38:22]

iamlindoro:

no

[19:38:35]

iamlindoro:

It'll just behave as it always did, but in MythUI

[19:38:41]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: removing linux support? risk to the drm.

[19:38:43]

iamlindoro:

ie, only during playback

[19:39:06]

wagnerrp:

well this wish is for the 'shown everywhere' one, so the generic widget

[19:39:43]

iamlindoro:

yeah, don't think anyone plans to work on it any time soon-- stuartm is the only person who has ever mentioned interest in doing it, and last time he brought it up, it was to say he didn't plan to work on it

[19:40:41]

skd5aner:

I wish for it to... but I'm not working on it either ;)

[19:41:24]

skd5aner:

I used to pop up my callerID info up back in 2004–5 via a modem ;) then I found a script out there that could parse the incoming SIP traffic and pass it then as well, but haven't used that sicne about 2008

[19:41:35]

skd5aner:

would be nice to have that back though

[19:42:10]

iamlindoro:

you will have it "back"

[19:42:16]

iamlindoro:

in that it will work exactly as it did before

[19:42:17]

skd5aner:

yea, I know

[19:42:25]

wagnerrp:

just not improved in any manner

[19:42:32]

skd5aner:

fair enough

[19:43:31]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: it's one of those features which ought to be pretty simple, I'd guess you can pretty much lift the existing code from libmythtv into libmyth then add a widget that watches for those incoming events and displays the strings

[19:44:49]

stuartm:

but like most 'easy' stuff, it tends to get postponed to deal with more important tasks, and by now I've so many important tasks that I'll probably never see a time when I'm back to working on fun, easy 'win' features

[19:49:28]

guysoft42:

hey, it seem the on air EPG does not work in here, i can see it in VLC, but mythtv can't seem to get it: http://twitpic.com/2e05r7

[19:49:41]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, any idea? it seems to send it in the media codec information

[19:50:44]

iamlindoro:

Have you configured EIT as your guide source, turned on all the EIT options, and waited for the EPG to fill?

[19:52:33]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, i did

[19:52:49]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, what other EIT options are there to turn on?

[19:53:00]

iamlindoro:

I don't use EIT, but sounds like a misconfiguration

[19:53:06]

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[19:53:15]

iamlindoro:

presumably as someone using trunk, you are familiar with myth configuration

[19:54:22]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, i am, but i can't see anything of intrest in mythtv-setup, except the setting in sources for the EIT guide, and the setting to use the on air XML in the cannels

[19:54:24]

guysoft42:

channels*

[19:55:54]

iamlindoro:

EIT in trunk no different than in previous releases, so just set up as normal

[19:56:34]

guysoft42:

iamlindoro, i did. nothing.. im not sure what might be worng yet

[19:57:33]

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[19:57:45]

stuartm:

did you scan or import the channels somehow?

[19:58:17]

stuartm:

broken EIT usually results from inserting the channels somehow instead of scanning using the internal scanner

[20:00:22]

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[20:03:00]

guysoft42:

stuartm, yes, i ran a scan and added all the channels but they dont seem to show any EIT

[20:05:22]

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[20:05:48]

stuartm:

the backend is running, and has been running for at least 30 minutes? SELECT COUNT(*) FROM program; returns zero?

[20:06:38]

guysoft42:

streeter, no, less than 30 mins, but it should give the EPG right away , thats what i see in vlc

[20:06:56]

wagnerrp:

anyone here use the IR blaster on an HDPVR?

[20:07:56]

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[20:09:31]

stuartm:

guysoft42: it will start within 5 minutes of the backend startup, but not necessarily on the channels you want or start with the timeslots in the next 24 hours, it may be populating timeslots a week from now

[20:09:38]

guysoft42:

stuartm, it might be possible the standard is not working here, we had that before

[20:09:56]

stuartm:

it's possible, but then it wouldn't be following the standard ;)

[20:10:03]

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[20:10:15]

guysoft42:

stuartm, i mean that no one really got the EPG working here, thats why i am attempting

[20:10:40]

guysoft42:

stuartm, i can give samples of the stream, and did you see the picture i posted before from VLC?

[20:12:29]

__benny__:

I use EPG with EITScanning that part works great

[20:13:07]

guysoft42:

EITScanning?

[20:13:28]

__benny__:

EIT scanning, :$

[20:13:40]

stuartm:

guysoft42: he's in Sweden so his experience isn't going to be relevant here

[20:14:19]

guysoft42:

stuartm, i konw, but hearing from people that got EIT working in general might help

[20:14:27]

stuartm:

guysoft42: I'm far too busy to work on a fix, but if you open a ticket with a sample stream then I'm sure StuartA will get around to it

[20:14:32]

guysoft42:

__benny__, is there some tool that scans it exclusively?

[20:14:57]

guysoft42:

stuartm, ok, i think i will if i give up here

[20:15:09]

__benny__:

the only that can parse the EIT data that I know is actually mythtv

[20:15:24]

__benny__:

I've been searching for other program, plz tellme if you know

[20:15:31]

__benny__:

and that runs with Linux

[20:16:04]

guysoft42:

__benny__, i know there is an EPG because i can see it under the codec data in VLC

[20:16:42]

guysoft42:

when i use "mythgilldatabase" it says: 2010-08–12 23:15:00.471 Source 1 configured to use only the broadcasted guide data.

[20:17:07]

__benny__:

mythfilldatabase is useless using EIT

[20:17:59]

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[20:18:39]

stuartm:

guysoft42: how long have you been running the backend for?

[20:18:46]

__benny__:

in the 'channel' table, set useonairguide=1, you can also do that from the mythweb

[20:19:55]

guysoft42:

stuartm, around 10 mins

[20:19:58]

stuartm:

guysoft42: stop the backend, then run it from the command line "mythbackend -v eit", that will enable EIT related debugging messages, wait a few minutes then post the results to pastebin.com

[20:20:42]

__benny__:

it takes a lot more 10 mins, to have a complete EPG guide with EIT, it has to run almost all night

[20:20:49]

__benny__:

at least in my case

[20:20:49]

stuartm:

guysoft42: the scanner doesn't start immediately, I think it waits about 5 minutes, then it only writes the new events to the database every 5 minutes to keep the disk I/O low

[20:20:58]

Beirdo:

ah crap. typo in my mysql statement between the two runs of commflag

[20:21:03]

Beirdo:

gotta start all over.

[20:21:09]

stuartm:

aye, to entirely populate the program table it can take a while

[20:21:43]

guysoft42:

all i see is: EITHelper: localtime offset 3:00:00

[20:22:05]

__benny__:

it has happen to me, at 1 time, that I had to re-scan my channels to make EIT work

[20:22:27]

__benny__:

I do not understand exactly why this was necessary

[20:22:29]

guysoft42:

__benny__, yes on air guide is ticked in mythweb

[20:22:39]

stuartm:

guysoft42: wait a few minutes, be patient

[20:22:55]

__benny__:

guysoft42: how many channels do you have ?

[20:22:57]

guysoft42:

2010-08–12 23:22:02.761 EITScanner (1): Now looking for EIT data on multiplex of channel 1

[20:23:07]

guysoft42:

2010-08–12 23:22:02.761 EITCache: Pruning all entries that ended before UTC 2010-08–11T23:27:27

[20:25:59]

guysoft42:

__benny__, 7, well 5 really, i detected two test channels :)

[20:26:50]

stuartm:

guysoft42: ok, so it's scanning for EIT, wait another 10 minutes and see whether there are any messages about it inserting programs into the database

[20:27:47]

guysoft42:

stuartm, ok

[20:33:20]

guysoft42:

.. not working.

[20:33:24]

guysoft42:

i see it scanning, not adding anything

[20:33:57]

stuartm:

so it's not finding anything :/

[20:38:09]

__benny__:

another way is just start watch some channel that you know should have EIT data

[20:38:19]

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[20:39:14]

__benny__:

keep watching it, and look at the log, hopefully you see EIT events

[20:39:39]

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[20:44:01]

stuartm:

guysoft42: I'd really urge you to submit a ticket, it's the only way that the problem will be fixed for both you and all other Israeli users

[20:44:52]

mechcozmo:

hello, I cannot get Bluetooth to enable on my frontend; the dongle is recognized, but the bluetooth preferences box says it is disabled; the Turn On button does nothing.

[20:46:14]

mechcozmo:

some combination of http://osdir.com/ml/ubuntu-bluetooth/2010-04/msg00029.html and https://bugs.launchpad.net/blueman/+bug/496733

[20:47:03]

iamlindoro:

mechcozmo: We don't have any sort of bluetooth code whatsoever in mythtv

[20:47:32]

iamlindoro:

sounds like you want your distro channel?

[20:47:32]

mechcozmo:

iamlindoro: er, wrong channel... sorry.

[20:47:39]

mechcozmo:

iamlindoro: yup

[20:47:52]

iamlindoro:

np

[20:52:14]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: but... how else will mythtv support my headphones???

[20:52:20]

iamlindoro:

hehe

[20:52:42]

iamlindoro:

obviously we need to roll all the code from alsa, and udev, and inotify, and..... into myth!

[20:53:53]

mechcozmo:

seems like the obvious move to me

[20:54:28]

justinh:

mythtv needs to be a complete distro though

[20:54:47]

wagnerrp:

justinh: dont we have several of those?

[20:55:09]

justinh:

no, a whole *new* distro :-)

[20:55:17]

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[20:55:29]

bjd:

and it must run on a plug system!

[20:55:32]

justinh:

and invent new technologies so you don't have to mess with pulseaudio etc

[20:55:44]

justinh:

like chicken in a basket!

[20:55:51]

mechcozmo:

and a custom filesystem

[20:56:01]

justinh:

and it must make coffee & do my dishes

[20:56:34]

justinh:

be nice if it fed & changed a baby too mind you

[20:56:44]

mechcozmo:

i'd buy that for a dollar

[20:56:59]

mechcozmo:

if i donate a dollar, will MythTV do my laundry?

[20:57:05]

justinh:

lol

[20:57:17]

justinh:

that's about the tone of most of the bounty shouts I've seen

[20:57:54]

mechcozmo:

i promise to donate it, too

[20:58:12]

wagnerrp:

yeah, $10 to someone who develops something that will take at least 20 hours for an experienced person to write

[20:58:23]

mechcozmo:

maybe two dollars if you can do something about that really hot ball thing in the sky

[20:58:44]

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[21:01:18]

iamlindoro:

I promise that whichever state you are currently unhappy with about the ball of fire, that I will have changed in exactly 12 hours

[21:01:23]

iamlindoro:

where's my $2?

[21:01:59]

iamlindoro:

NOTE: Work not guaranteed, valid on delivery only

[21:02:18]

mechcozmo:

it's not dark enough, i'd like it brighter

[21:02:32]

justinh:

also note: any fixes may regress later when further improvements are made to other areas. yah boo sucks ;-)

[21:02:43]

iamlindoro:

New contract applies, $2 more, see you in 12 hours

[21:04:36]

mechcozmo:

okay, i gotta take care of some things, but just in case you all wanted to know, unplugging and replugging the bluetooth dongle didn't solve anything

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iamlindoro:

I used one of my banked kicks for all the times you called something the "ideal frontend"

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iamlindoro:

Don't worry, I've got lots more

[21:41:38]

dustybin:

im a changed man :(

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dustybin:

i have now ditched gnome / kde / xfce ,etc im now using a tiling window manager called i3, tiling window managers kick serious ass

[21:41:45]

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iamlindoro:

language

[21:41:59]

Beirdo:

speaking of kicking... :)

[21:42:00]

Beirdo:

hehe

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wagnerrp:

i3 is not awesome...

[21:42:21]

dustybin:

haha its not

[21:42:23]

dustybin:

its better

[21:42:29]

Beirdo:

ratpoison is awesome

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wagnerrp:

no its not

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[21:42:51]

wagnerrp:

awesome is awesome

[21:42:54]

dustybin:

ratpoision has a old feeling to it

[21:43:03]

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[21:43:10]

Beirdo:

huh? It's perfect for mythtv fullscreen

[21:43:13]

dustybin:

i will snapshot my desktop

[21:43:15]

Beirdo:

who cares about other stuff

[21:43:25]

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[21:43:26]

iamlindoro:

Please god, do not snapshot your desktop

[21:43:27]

awalls:

Warfarin is ratpoison

[21:43:33]

high-rez:

you know the best way to run mythtv full screen? put mythfrontend in your .xinitrc

[21:43:34]

** high-rez ducks **

[21:43:35]

iamlindoro:

and bear in mind that I still have ops

[21:43:48]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: awesome window manager... http://awesome.naquadah.org/

[21:43:49]

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[21:44:02]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: hehe, nice

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iamlindoro:

Maybe we should change our name to Best DVR

[21:45:12]

Beirdo:

BestDVREver

[21:45:38]

high-rez:

You could call yourselves Video Disk Recorder.

[21:45:40]

Beirdo:

OK, first run of commflag (with speedups) done

[21:45:43]

iamlindoro:

Or for extra geek cred, Best. DVR. Ever.

[21:45:52]

wagnerrp:

screw it

[21:46:01]

Beirdo:

second run with them disabled... starting

[21:46:01]

** wagnerrp changes the channel title to #ponies **

[21:46:38]

Beirdo:

nah, #unicorns

[21:47:03]

wagnerrp:

no no no, unicorns are for eating, not watching TV on

[21:47:16]

awalls:

#bestponiesevuh

[21:48:11]

dustybin:

this is my i3 deskop: http://a.imageshack.us/img806/1786/snapshotuse.png

[21:48:50]

iamlindoro:

Sorry, I lived through Zork the first time

[21:48:55]

iamlindoro:

I don't need my desktop to look like it now

[21:48:56]

high-rez:

Thats one ugly desktop

[21:49:37]

Beirdo:

agreed

[21:49:56]

wagnerrp:

but hey, his terminal emulator seems to talk to him about how cool it is

[21:50:19]

high-rez:

At least he's running screen and a reasonable IRC client.

[21:50:21]

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[21:50:51]

awalls:

You're in a desktop with twisty little germina

[21:51:00]

dustybin:

i can create as many work spaces as i wish, i can flick to full screen firefox etc

[21:51:11]

awalls:

Windows that look all alike

[21:51:15]

iamlindoro:

awalls: open window

[21:51:19]

iamlindoro:

awalls: w

[21:51:23]

iamlindoro:

awalls: look

[21:51:30]

high-rez:

Yeah but can you do it all with composting?

[21:52:15]

iamlindoro:

That would be a neat little IRC bot, actually

[21:52:24]

iamlindoro:

a z-machine interpreter that PM'd you the game

[21:52:30]

iamlindoro:

ie !play zork

[21:52:34]

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[21:52:41]

iamlindoro:

seems like such a thing must exist

[21:53:05]

high-rez:

dustybin: I noticed you're torrenting illegal materialz from your screenshot.

[21:53:08]

iamlindoro:

http://code.google.com/p/ircbot-collection/so . . . -frotz/?r=87

[21:53:08]

awalls:

iamlindoro: its dark, you may be eaten by a grue...

[21:53:20]

wagnerrp:

high-rez: you compost inside your computer?

[21:53:21]

iamlindoro:

awalls: turn on lantern

[21:53:38]

high-rez:

wagnerr: Yes. Its a sun machine. About all its good for.

[21:53:44]

awalls:

Oops dinnertime. Bye.

[21:53:49]

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[21:53:52]

high-rez:

s/wagnerr/wangerrp

[21:54:15]

dustybin:

high-rez: legal linux distro torrent

[21:54:43]

high-rez:

dustybin: I read that /. article. All bittorrent is people stealing copies of Men in Black II.

[21:55:05]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: a grue sees your lantern and attacks, you have been eaten by a grue

[21:55:15]

iamlindoro:

pffft, wronggggg

[21:55:22]

iamlindoro:

grues can't exist in the light

[21:55:24]

iamlindoro:

duh

[21:56:28]

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[21:56:46]

iamlindoro:

That said, I think they changed the rules in later games

[21:58:07]

sphery:

the rules grue to accomodate different scenarios?

[21:59:10]

dustybin:

i think 2011 will be the year i enter HD video :D

[21:59:19]

dustybin:

am i missing out on anything?

[21:59:42]

Beirdo:

no, I will not add Zork to beirdobot :)

[21:59:53]

Beirdo:

but if you wanna create the plugin... we'll see :)

[22:01:15]

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[22:08:54]

guysoft42:

can i login the mythtv bug tracking system? where do you register??

[22:11:23]

Beirdo:

you put in your email as the ticket reporter. Logins are setup individually for developers, AFAIK

[22:11:27]

kormoc:

only developers get logins currently

[22:12:25]

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[22:15:19]

bjd:

new tv <3

[22:15:49]

sphery:

kormoc: so, regarding the comment I made earlier about adding "TEMPORARY" to the recordmatch table shadowing stuff... I haven't done that because I don't know what's happening with current code.

[22:15:52]

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[22:16:07]

sphery:

kormoc: In http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . ler.cpp#L385 , we create a temp table recordmatch to shadow the real recordmatch table, then use it for speculative scheduling. Then, line 432 submits "DROP TABLE recordmatch;" (and doesn't specify TEMPORARY TABLE). Note that the table is created with MSqlQuery query and dropped with MSqlQuery queryDrop. Wouldn't that mean that (with a ...

[22:16:13]

sphery:

... different connection), the drop won't drop the temp table that's shadowing the real table?

[22:16:23]

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[22:17:13]

sphery:

Everything I thought I knew about Qt's QSqlQuery says that there's no way 2 different QSqlQuerys could share the same temp tables... So I plan to do some experimentation (unless you happen to know what happens in that case).

[22:21:18]

guysoft42:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8770

[22:28:06]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, you can see what we get here in that ticket

[22:28:26]

Azelphur:

wat

[22:28:33]

Azelphur:

I don't think you meant to highlight me

[22:28:55]

guysoft42:

Azelphur, i thought you were following too, if not, discard that..

[22:29:08]

Azelphur:

nope I've been idle since forever

[22:31:38]

kormoc:

sphery, temp tables are purely thread based, so yeah, if you got a different connection handle, it could drop the real table :(

[22:31:48]

sphery:

weird...

[22:32:09]

sphery:

wonder why we haven't had any issues with it...

[22:32:17]

Beirdo:

pure dumb luck?

[22:32:22]

sphery:

guess not a lot of speculative scheduling and maybe ... yeah

[22:32:42]

sphery:

or we have had issues but people didn't understand what was happening

[22:32:57]

kormoc:

I have no idea how to even run speculative scheduling

[22:33:01]

sphery:

and, funny enough, the issues would work themselves out when it creates the next "temp" table (that's not a temp table)

[22:33:25]

sphery:

when creating a rule there's a "Test <something>...." button

[22:33:38]

sphery:

it runs a test without actually changing the real tables

[22:33:45]

sphery:

well, that was the idea, but...

[22:33:51]

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[22:34:02]

kormoc:

ahh

[22:34:10]

sphery:

anyway, I'll test what happens with 2 different QSqlQueries (in general), then try to instrument the real code and see if there's a real issue

[22:34:23]

sphery:

probably post-freeze, though (as that's a bug fix if it's doing what I think it may be :)

[22:34:47]

bjd:

Am I right in thinking an xbox is going to be pretty much hopeless playing SD recordings?

[22:35:43]

sphery:

off to re-read all the mythtv-setup tickets to see how many of them are the issue in the patch I committed because I didn't feel like redoing it better since the Qt setup code is dead...

[22:36:14]

sphery:

bjd: xbox classic? It's a terrible idea for a frontend, anymore

[22:36:29]

sphery:

we removed all xbox-specific support code, so it may not even work right, now

[22:37:14]

sphery:

and xbox 360 only uses "blessed by MS Windows Media Player" MPEG-2 in Microsoft containers (i.e. won't work with digital MPEG-2 recordings, including ATSC and recordings from PVR-150, etc.)

[22:38:06]

Beirdo:

blow it to pieces

[22:38:40]

bjd:

Ah OK, yeah classic – I was thinking XBMC

[22:39:38]

bjd:

Was hoping it'd do till I pay off the credit card... damn it, why did I have to buy a new TV.

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[22:42:44]

sphery:

xbmc isn't a good choice for a frontend, even if you have good hardware under it, too

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[22:44:46]

Beirdo:

hehe

[22:45:00]

bjd:

:D

[22:45:02]

Beirdo:

mmm, new TV. I think I'll be ordering a second one this weekend

[22:46:22]

blizzard_:

trying to use nuvexport for the first time

[22:46:31]

blizzard_:

I'm getting this error message: "This host not configured for myth."

[22:46:34]

blizzard_:

ne idea why=

[22:46:35]

blizzard_:

?

[22:46:52]

bjd:

My old TV is a 4 year old 26" which has been relegated to the bedroom. I've got a 42" for the lounge and just sat in awe at the picture whilst watching a documentary on BBC HD :p

[22:52:52]

** Beirdo turns on some Metallica to combat the mid-afternoon blahs **

[22:53:05]

Beirdo:

blizzard_: sounds like you haven't configured said host for myth

[22:53:18]

blizzard_:

beirdo: yeh, sounds like it

[22:53:22]

blizzard_:

but this is my backend system

[22:53:31]

blizzard_:

which records movies without any trouble etc

[22:53:38]

blizzard_:

I've tried to run it as the mythtv user

[22:53:59]

blizzard_:

and other scripts like mythlink which also connects to the database runs without a problem

[22:54:14]

Beirdo:

got a ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml file?

[22:54:39]

blizzard_:

mythtv@snowball:~$ cat ~mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml |wc -l

[22:54:39]

blizzard_:

18

[22:54:44]

Beirdo:

I think it still uses that, but not sure

[22:54:59]

Beirdo:

gimme a sec

[22:55:14]

sphery:

but it's the HOME in the environment in which it's running

[22:55:26]

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[22:56:18]

guysoft42:

does anyone here know perhaps what standards of EPG broadcasts exist?

[22:56:31]

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[22:56:47]

blizzard_:

mythtv@snowball:~$ file $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml

[22:56:47]

blizzard_:

/var/lib/mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml: ASCII text

[22:56:51]

blizzard_:

it's the same file

[22:57:14]

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[22:57:25]

Beirdo:

what is the EXACT error?

[22:57:39]

lapion:

I am having problems with pbp, whenever I start it , p1 and p2 on the same location.. overlapping..

[22:57:42]

blizzard_:

tried a strace

[22:57:46]

blizzard_:

got one more row..

[22:57:47]

blizzard_:

write(2, "This host not configured for myth"..., 102This host not configured for myth.

[22:57:50]

blizzard_:

(No RecordFilePrefix defined for snowball in the settings table.)

[22:57:58]

lapion:

anyone know how to solve the problem ?

[22:58:05]

blizzard_:

seems to do a read on:

[22:58:06]

blizzard_:

read(6, "\1\0\0\1\0019\0\0\2\3def\vmythconverg\10setting"..., 16384) = 84

[22:58:20]

lapion:

I am having problems with pbp, whenever I start it , the second screen overlaps the first one completely

[22:58:41]

Beirdo:

blizzard_: did you set a special name when you setup the backend?

[22:58:52]

blizzard_:

special name?

[22:59:05]

blizzard_:

I entered the backend host name 'snowball' if that's what you think of

[22:59:14]

blizzard_:

"I think"

[22:59:48]

Beirdo:

and: what version of nuvexport and mythtv?

[22:59:52]

Beirdo:

nuvexport --version

[23:00:05]

blizzard_:

nuvexport version: 0.4 0.20071226.svn

[23:00:07]

blizzard_:

and 23–1

[23:00:12]

Beirdo:

oh good god

[23:00:13]

blizzard_:

(debian package

[23:00:14]

blizzard_:

)

[23:00:19]

Beirdo:

ancient nuvexport

[23:00:33]

bjd:

debian and it's packaging makes me sad

[23:00:41]

Beirdo:

nuvexport version: 0.5 0.20090726.svn

[23:00:46]

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[23:00:58]

Beirdo:

I would think you'd want to be upgrading before messing with it any further

[23:01:01]

blizzard_:

actually from the debian multimedia repository so it should be newer than the ordinary debian package

[23:01:18]

Beirdo:

I have no clue what they did to their packages

[23:02:19]

blizzard_:

not really the answer I was hoping for =)

[23:02:33]

blizzard_:

still

[23:02:34]

blizzard_:

(No RecordFilePrefix defined for snowball in the settings table.)

[23:02:47]

blizzard_:

what is that RecordFilePrefix that it's asking for?

[23:03:12]

Beirdo:

likely something that no longer exists

[23:03:17]

iamlindoro:

A setting that hasn't been used for years

[23:03:32]

blizzard_:

oh joy

[23:03:35]

Beirdo:

you have an ancient version of nuvexport

[23:03:39]

iamlindoro:

ie, pre-storage-groups

[23:04:18]

blizzard_:

sounds like an upgrade then

[23:07:47]

Beirdo:

ooh, good name for a song of this speed.... Whiplash

[23:08:13]

Beirdo:

you try headbanging to it, you'll be getting whiplash, that's for sure

[23:14:36]

Beirdo:

blizzard_: normally you can find the latest tarballed version at:

[23:14:40]

Beirdo:

http://forevermore.net/files/nuvexport-latest.tar.bz2

[23:15:10]

Beirdo:

the version in SVN is tweaked for trunk and may not quite work with 0.23 due to protocol level

[23:16:08]

Beirdo:

sphery: still no "fix the perl bindings to not do direct db access without schema check" ticket? :)

[23:16:53]

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[23:29:05]

smithna:

Hi gang... I am running svn (updated today) with spdif output to a stero reciever. If I set #speakers to 5.1, I get no sound. I get stereo sound if I select stereo. What may I be missing?

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