MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

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Friday, July 30th, 2010, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:08] sphery: including LocalHostName
[00:00:23] kormoc: yeah, it's just nested into a MythFrontend chunk which seems odd for the backend to use for it's connection string
[00:00:23] sphery: plus the renderer stuff...
[00:00:26] sphery: I should add that
[00:00:40] sphery: ah, yeah
[00:01:07] sphery: that's a "designed for one thing, but then redone totally differently so that scripts could use it" file
[00:02:06] sphery: maybe we should move it out of MythFrontend
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[00:04:44] wagnerrp: LocalHostName... i should start using that in the bindings
[00:05:43] sphery: maybe we should tell the weak db connection guy to set that
[00:06:02] kormoc: Some scripting and I have the FE connecting as MythFrontend, whee
[00:06:34] sphery: now just start modifying those DB perms to prevent the frontend from doing things it shouldn't
[00:06:45] sphery: that's all that's required--I heard it here
[00:06:51] sphery: (or on the list...)
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[00:09:22] kormoc: hehe
[00:10:17] kormoc: it's a horrible way to do it, but it works for splitting up queries
[00:11:21] sphery: yeah, makes sense for seeing who's doing what
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[00:12:19] kormoc: it would be really nice to get all the tools to run as mythtoolname, but oh well
[00:13:11] wagnerrp: run as?
[00:13:41] kormoc: wagnerrp, connect to the database
[00:13:52] wagnerrp: you can name yourself as a client?
[00:13:54] kormoc: it's a feature only I'd use :P
[00:14:03] kormoc: wagnerrp, nah, database username
[00:14:10] wagnerrp: oh
[00:14:12] kormoc: I have my frontend connecting to the db as mythfrontend now
[00:14:46] wagnerrp: and have different permission sets for different levels of usage
[00:15:25] kormoc: that'd be nice, but I'm more for just tracing down who's doing what queue
[00:15:35] kormoc: I'd love to have the scheduler run as mythschedule
[00:15:45] kormoc: much easier to trace db execution paths that way
[00:15:54] kormoc: but it's really just something I'd use
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[00:17:06] wagnerrp: agh... drive failed
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[00:17:24] sphery: new drive?
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[00:17:42] sphery: new drive?
[00:17:56] wagnerrp: no, ive got my PSU split too many ways
[00:18:00] sphery: oh
[00:18:04] wagnerrp: and sometimes one of the drives doesnt come online on a reboot
[00:18:12] GadgetWisdomGuru: How many drives do you have in there?
[00:18:22] wagnerrp: 17
[00:18:24] sphery: yeah, a friend has a similar issue
[00:18:45] kormoc: wagnerrp, did you stager the drive spin ups?
[00:18:57] wagnerrp: the ones on the RAID card are
[00:19:00] sphery: wagnerrp: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/02/spin . . . ard_dis.html
[00:19:03] wagnerrp: i think 0.6s each
[00:19:05] sphery: for the rest
[00:19:25] kormoc: wagnerrp, depending on the drive, they might have jumpers on them to also stagger the spinup
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[00:19:49] sphery: kormoc: but don't you need to be able to tell something to send the appropriate command to spin it up
[00:20:08] sphery: I have one drive with a jumper, but didn't think there was anything to send the spinup command without the RAID card
[00:20:09] kormoc: sphery, nah, the drives themselves can do it if needed
[00:20:22] kormoc: least with WD drives
[00:20:48] sphery: so after BIOS when the OS is booting and tries to access it, it will spin itself up?
[00:21:18] kormoc: nah, it just slows down the spin-up for the bios detection
[00:21:40] sphery: oh, so some pre-set delay from bios probe?
[00:21:46] kormoc: yeah
[00:21:53] kormoc: which is all I ever needed to slow down
[00:22:02] sphery: if you have 3 WD Greens, then, would they all spin at the same time?
[00:22:02] kormoc: as that power-up was the huge draw
[00:22:07] kormoc: yeah
[00:22:12] sphery: hmmm.
[00:22:17] sphery: might be useful for the guy I know
[00:22:28] sphery: would delay 2 of his HDD spin ups
[00:22:32] kormoc: (well, my drives had two jumpers, so you could stagger 3 levels, normal, delay 1 and delay 2)
[00:22:42] sphery: but should be fine with the others spinning earlier
[00:23:01] sphery: ah, I think the WD Green 2TB has one jumper
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[00:23:54] sphery: I thought it was PUIS/PM2, which everything I read said you needed controller support for actually enabling the drive after that
[00:24:30] kormoc: I certainly had PM2 and it staggered them
[00:24:36] kormoc: hrm
[00:24:48] kormoc: to be fair, linux might have just started them up, as they weren't boot disks
[00:25:07] GadgetWisdomGuru: I learn a lot in here.
[00:25:31] kormoc: RPS is the new hotness, reduced power spin-up
[00:25:42] sphery: ooh, fancy
[00:25:44] sphery: how's it work
[00:26:04] sphery: just a slow acceleration to full speed?
[00:26:30] kormoc: yeah
[00:26:35] sphery: cool idea
[00:26:55] sphery: though it would be annoying when accessing an idle/spun-down drive
[00:26:55] kormoc: it's in all their 2.5" drives iirc
[00:27:02] sphery: if it's only on boot, it's cool
[00:27:03] kormoc: it's really not that much slower
[00:27:07] sphery: really?
[00:27:08] sphery: cool
[00:27:14] kormoc: something like 4.5 seconds normal vs 5 seconds RPS
[00:27:23] GadgetWisdomGuru: Does anyone spin down their recording drives when idle?
[00:27:34] kormoc: GadgetWisdomGuru, Aye, default settings
[00:27:40] kormoc: (usb drive)
[00:28:00] kormoc: sphery, here's their spec (read marketing) sheet, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web . . . -ryiRYE6K37w
[00:28:10] sphery: kormoc: this is what convinced me not to try the jumper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-up_in_standby , specifically, "PUIS requires corresponding BIOS support. If PM2 is enabled on the drive but not supported by the BIOS, the drive will not be detected by the system or detected as zero in size. PUIS is typically only supported on RAID Controllers."
[00:28:12] GadgetWisdomGuru: I know people who disable all power saving. That is why I asked.
[00:28:17] sphery: and since wikipedia is never wrong...
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[00:29:37] kormoc: sphery, ahh, I donno, I have vanilla intel motherboards and they spun up with one of either mode set
[00:30:00] wagnerrp: well i swapped the drive with issues with another one, hopefully the different location will fix the issue
[00:30:04] sphery: I'll probably try it one of these days
[00:30:18] sphery: or wagnerrp could just jumper his 3 for PM2
[00:30:37] wagnerrp: this time, i just manually staggered them using the power button
[00:30:43] wagnerrp: and it seems to be fine
[00:30:52] sphery: how do you do that?
[00:31:51] wagnerrp: with the power button... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817995004
[00:32:25] sphery: oh
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[00:35:05] GadgetWisdomGuru: I have something like that
[00:35:46] wagnerrp: i should probably check those jumpers to see if i actually have it enabled next time i take the machine down
[00:36:10] wagnerrp: for all i know, my staggered spinup could do nothing
[00:38:18] wagnerrp: its a 650W supply, it should have plenty of power
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[00:49:37] kormoc: sphery, around?
[00:49:47] sphery: yeah
[00:50:35] kormoc: datadirect speedup patch, http://pastebin.ca/1911428
[00:51:08] kormoc: just wondering if you know offhand if that's valid to use %1 twice or not?
[00:51:33] wagnerrp: in qt?
[00:51:36] sphery: it is, though in MythTV code, it seems they prefer to just do %1 %2 %3
[00:51:51] kormoc: so repeat the same arg twice?
[00:51:54] sphery: yeah
[00:52:01] wagnerrp: in a QString, it just replaces any instance
[00:52:49] kormoc: fair 'nuff
[00:55:08] sphery: now I want to listen to Steal My Sunshine
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[01:01:06] ** wagnerrp is clearing off 360GB of HDDVDs from the RAID **
[01:01:25] GadgetWisdomGuru: Wagnerrp, you bought HDDVDs?
[01:01:53] wagnerrp: yeah, like a year a go, bought a whole bunch
[01:02:12] wagnerrp: theyre dirt cheap, the shipping costs more than the movie itself
[01:02:51] wagnerrp: why spend $20 on a bluray, when you can get it for $2 on HDDVD
[01:03:37] GadgetWisdomGuru: You own an HDDVD player then?
[01:03:51] wagnerrp: no, just a ROM drive
[01:04:50] GadgetWisdomGuru: Ok
[01:08:44] wagnerrp: i have a lot more, but ive been deleting them off the RAID as i run out of space for archived recordings
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[01:09:01] GadgetWisdomGuru: But you have the archival copy, I assume?
[01:09:29] wagnerrp: i have the disks still yes, but i had been putting them on a bunch of spare external drives
[01:09:44] wagnerrp: but now im moving them to a spare online 2TB drive
[01:11:28] GadgetWisdomGuru: Have I said how the tech/geekiness of the people in this room puts me to shame?
[01:16:54] wagnerrp: so porsche is now selling a hybrid
[01:17:36] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: yeah why not? they did sell the cayenne turbo s
[01:18:02] ** wagnerrp loathes hybrid vehicles **
[01:18:43] Shadow__X: i think jeremy clarkson made a pun about them creating it to cut down the cost of road taxes in england
[01:19:36] Beirdo: ahhh
[01:19:55] Beirdo: wagnerrp: I like Hybrid... The Prius is a fun little car
[01:19:59] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: what part do you hate about them? I love the fact that they really arent that great 50mpg is good but when they created gasoline cars that did between 40–50 easily already i think they should focus on amking things better instead of taking the easy way and just slapping an electric motor on it
[01:20:26] wagnerrp: Beirdo, Shadow__X: ive got no complaints with electric cars, i think theyre great
[01:20:35] wagnerrp: i loathe /hybrid/ vehicles
[01:20:41] Shadow__X: ah ok i gotcha
[01:20:45] Beirdo: hehe
[01:20:50] Beirdo: you suck :)
[01:21:13] Shadow__X: personally for the whole technical hybrid idea i liked the direction or atleast idea behind the chevy volt but i dont know how good it is any more
[01:21:13] Beirdo: Oh fun
[01:21:14] kormoc: I loathe the earth... 19 mpg on a good day!
[01:21:22] Shadow__X: :(
[01:21:23] Beirdo: now what was I gonna do....
[01:21:33] Shadow__X: kormoc: what do you drive
[01:21:34] Shadow__X: suv?
[01:21:47] Beirdo: first thing to check... when's the first break in schedule
[01:21:58] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: I get about 16.5 normally... ;-) 2001 Tahoe
[01:21:59] kormoc: Shadow__X, nah, a 2007 pontiac g6 gt htc with the sports package
[01:22:01] wagnerrp: Shadow__X: the Volt is absolutely how electric vehicles should be built
[01:22:11] Beirdo: dang, recording straight through to 11pm
[01:22:27] Shadow__X: kormoc: ah ok
[01:22:37] kormoc: wagnerrp, and the leaf is absoutely how electric vehicles should not be built
[01:23:05] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: yeah i remember when i read about it the first time it was great especially with the diesel motor i thought it would of been great but i think they lost a bit of efficiency switching to gasoline
[01:23:26] wagnerrp: Shadow__X: and with proper economy of scale, the expensive parts (high power electric motor and generator) should come down in price to compete comparably with traditional vehicles
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[01:24:25] wagnerrp: im talking about the general idea of a diesel/gasoline-electric vehicle
[01:24:34] wagnerrp: with an engine only sized to handle highway cruise
[01:24:35] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: yeah i agree. It seemed like their projections were after the initial production run they could sell them for cheaper and still make a profit
[01:24:44] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: yup
[01:24:49] wagnerrp: that in mind, the Volt's generator is a bit large
[01:25:09] wagnerrp: the problem is that no one makes consumer grade, high output electric motors
[01:25:34] wagnerrp: theyre all high torque industrial motors, and generally are steady state with no change in rpm
[01:25:44] wagnerrp: so theyre having to develop these motors from scratch
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[01:26:02] wagnerrp: and those production costs are going to be amortized over the first couple years of vehicle
[01:26:03] Shadow__X: which costs a good amount
[01:26:17] wagnerrp: that and the battery packs are hugely expensive
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[01:26:35] Shadow__X: that they are
[01:27:54] Shadow__X: still though i am not thrilled at the fact that we don't have a majority of cars at around 40mpg or atleast a good amount of them
[01:28:06] Beirdo: OK. Anyways.
[01:28:10] Shadow__X: they had cars that did over 50mpg in the early 90s
[01:28:15] Beirdo: burn notice time
[01:28:26] Beirdo: the VW Jetta Diesel
[01:28:33] wagnerrp: Shadow__X: sure, but they were all little POS economy cars that spewed all sorts of emissions
[01:28:53] Beirdo: umm
[01:29:04] Beirdo: Jetta is hardly "little POS economy car"
[01:29:06] Beirdo: :)
[01:29:08] Shadow__X: wagnerrp: yes i fully agree but what i am saying is they could use better gearing and todays tech to make that model
[01:29:11] wagnerrp: yes... yes it is
[01:29:14] sphery: versus coal fired power plants that spew emissions?
[01:29:17] Shadow__X: Beirdo: if you are comparing it to a benz it is
[01:29:28] Shadow__X: and a jetta is def a cheap car
[01:29:31] Beirdo: no... it's a medium size POS economy car
[01:29:38] Beirdo: heh
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[01:29:48] wagnerrp: ok, you win
[01:29:51] Beirdo: get it right :)
[01:29:52] Beirdo: hehe
[01:30:04] sphery: didn't Honda have a super-high-mileage gas-only car, too
[01:30:13] Shadow__X: yeah the honda crx hf
[01:30:27] wagnerrp: yeah, there were civic variants that would get 50+
[01:30:31] sphery: yeah, that's it
[01:30:40] wagnerrp: and then theres the hypermillers who could probably manage over 100
[01:30:53] Shadow__X: then they changed it into the honda hybrid version of the crx which got around 65mpg but was horrible to drive in manual
[01:31:05] sphery: wagnerrp: and, you know, if you increase gas mileage from 25mpg to 50mpg, it's just as good as increasing from 10mpg to 20mpg
[01:31:11] sphery: just doubles it :)
[01:31:17] wagnerrp: yep
[01:31:23] ** Beirdo compiles the mess of changes from the day **
[01:31:52] sphery: what do you mean by hypermiler? driving techniques?
[01:32:10] wagnerrp: yeah
[01:32:25] sphery: you can't double mileage with hypermiling (or was that your meaning?)
[01:32:35] wagnerrp: people that get up to speed, and turn the engine off
[01:32:39] wagnerrp: let it coast for miles on a flat road
[01:32:54] wagnerrp: real screwy (illegal, dangerous) crap
[01:33:15] sphery: it would slow down a lot faster than that, wouldn't it
[01:33:18] Shadow__X: yup even apparently pulsaiting to stay upto speed instead of cruisecontrol
[01:33:31] sphery: I mean if I hit the clutch even at 70, I start dropping speed pretty quick
[01:33:40] Shadow__X: sphery: not on a light car that has the bearings constantly greesed
[01:33:44] Beirdo: not downhill :)
[01:33:52] sphery: true about downhill
[01:33:59] wagnerrp: sphery: you run on donuts to keep the rolling friction down, you dont go above 40 to keep aero drag down
[01:34:03] sphery: don't have the experience with a light car (mine's a pickup truck)
[01:34:09] Beirdo: my dad used to do that downhill...
[01:34:21] wagnerrp: pump up the pressure until youre risking a blowout
[01:34:23] Beirdo: top of the hill at 50mph, bottom at 80mph
[01:34:26] Shadow__X: starting the car back on just using the clutch if fun
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[01:36:01] Beirdo: OMG, my headache is still annoying me
[01:44:59] GadgetWisdomGuru: Beirdo, sorry to hear that.
[01:48:38] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... did the protocol version get bumped in 0.23-fixes to "23056"? I just brought one of my frontends up to the latest 0.23-fixes, and now it says "The server uses protocol version 56 but this client only understands 23056..." Umm...
[01:48:54] wagnerrp: yes
[01:49:41] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: well, that stinks, my backend is tied up recording right now... I didn't think things like that were supposed to change on a 'fixes' branch...
[01:50:20] sphery: not remembering previous instances does not constitute a rule :)
[01:51:01] sphery: on the bright side, you only have to go without mythfrontend for a couple hours while you record
[01:51:04] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, well, would you prefer the bug that it fixed?
[01:51:19] sphery: or you could just downgrade mythfrontend to the previous 0.23-fixes revision
[01:51:28] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, and we even pushed a new minor version with the protobump!
[01:51:45] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: I guess I haven't followed the commits close enough to see what changed...
[01:52:55] sphery: J-e-f-f-A: the main reason we're not gleeful to hear people say, "I didn't think protocol version changed in -fixes" is because the rule has /always/ been same branch/same revision on all MythTV systems
[01:52:58] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: Oh, 0.23.1 ? I guess I expected that to be something like 0.23.1-fixes ...
[01:53:13] wagnerrp: no, still 0.23-fixes
[01:53:19] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, it's 0.23-fixes, not 0.23.0-fixes :P
[01:53:21] wagnerrp: the 0.23.1 is just a tag to a point on that branch
[01:53:39] sphery: or a snapshot of that branch :)
[01:54:08] wagnerrp: its up to the packages to properly handle the tag change
[01:54:16] wagnerrp: although we dropped the ball a bit on this one
[01:54:21] J-e-f-f-A: Ok. Didn't mean to stir things up... I had thought that the proto never changed on a 'released' branch.
[01:54:32] wagnerrp: little/no warning to the packagers, and the minor revision didnt come until several dozen revisions later
[01:54:36] sphery: kormoc: is your vdpau failure like danielk's (in #mythtv )?
[01:55:09] kormoc: sphery, nope, I have a opengl failure, vdpau works great
[01:55:23] sphery: oh... I get confused sometimes :)
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[02:07:28] J-e-f-f-A: Ok, that's better... reverted to the version before the change, and at least I can watch Burn Notice now. ;-) I'll upgrade everything over the weekend...
[02:09:17] Beirdo: sphery: seems danielk's issue was a lack of distclean
[02:09:23] Beirdo: it hit me too :)
[02:10:13] wagnerrp: aww.... burn notice got something /so/ wrong
[02:10:13] Beirdo: recompiling, hopefully it should all be good
[02:10:17] Beirdo: shhhh
[02:10:25] Beirdo: no spoilers :)
[02:10:33] sphery: cool
[02:10:43] [R]: jersey shore 2 tonight!
[02:10:45] Beirdo: I was half-way through the show when my backend went wonky
[02:10:47] [R]: is everyone psyched?
[02:10:53] Beirdo: jersey shore?
[02:10:57] Beirdo: what's that?
[02:11:01] Beirdo: show-wise
[02:11:03] [R]: mtv's most awesome show
[02:11:08] wagnerrp: 'vodka doesnt have enough energy to be considered a top grade explosive, but in some situations, its a lot easier to find than a brick of C4'
[02:11:13] Beirdo: Beavis & Butthead
[02:11:22] wagnerrp: vodka has /far/ more energy than C4
[02:11:32] wagnerrp: silly spies, chemistry is for scientists
[02:11:36] Beirdo: tastier to drink too
[02:11:53] Beirdo: that reminds me... I need a bottle for my freezer. It's feeling lonely
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[02:18:35] dewman: what does this mean? Besides the fact that I really screwed up? mythtv-backend main process (1603) terminated with status 127
[02:19:35] Beirdo: it means the backend died
[02:19:51] dewman: woohoo... lovely..
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[02:22:41] dewman: so.. apparently my mission of getting some nvidia drivers to work correctly really messed things up....
[02:23:05] kormoc: the backend doesn't care about your drivers
[02:23:45] dewman: hmm... how about this, maybe some clues in here. http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/6iJyQ7AQ
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[02:32:18] ** wagnerrp hates thermal epoxy **
[02:33:36] Beirdo: stick some on a hybrid car.
[02:34:03] Beirdo: come ON, mythbox... finish recompiling :)
[02:37:43] Cardoe: hey guys. any jamu experts around?
[02:37:49] Cardoe: hey Beirdo. long time no see
[02:37:59] Beirdo: Yeah, Cardoe
[02:38:03] wagnerrp: i could give a shot at an answer, but i wouldnt consider myself an expert
[02:38:13] Beirdo: kormoc: check it out... Cardoe's alive :)
[02:38:18] kormoc: indeed
[02:38:29] Cardoe: lies!
[02:38:43] Cardoe: So basically the issue I've got is that jamu is unhappy about my backend server name
[02:38:45] Cardoe: ! Warning – Could not find setting 'BackendServerIP' on host 'meyer'
[02:39:10] wagnerrp: youre running it on a machine that does not have a backend
[02:39:11] sphery: Cardoe: do you have a $HOME/.mythtv/config.xml
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[02:39:20] sphery: or, nvm
[02:39:24] wagnerrp: JAMU requires that it be run on the backend hosting the files
[02:39:25] Cardoe: wagnerrp: I'm on my only backend
[02:39:39] Cardoe: The issue is that MythTV thinks my backend is "meyer.cardoe.com"
[02:39:45] Cardoe: but jamu thinks its just "meyer"
[02:40:01] wagnerrp: then you have some weird setting in your config.xml/mysql.txt that is changing your hostname
[02:40:10] Cardoe: http://dpaste.com/223348/
[02:40:13] sphery: wagnerrp: now might be a good time to add that LocalHostName support?  :)
[02:40:24] wagnerrp: mythtv and the python bindings (should) use the same mechanism to reading the hostname from the system
[02:40:43] wagnerrp: and at least on my gentoo systems, it only returns the hostname, not the FQDN
[02:41:12] Cardoe: wagnerrp: ~/.mythtv/mysql.txt has the following: LocalHostName=meyer.cardoe.com
[02:41:23] sphery: ah, so it is that
[02:41:28] wagnerrp: yep... was just talking about that a couple hours ago
[02:41:31] Beirdo: and there goes my stupid DSL again
[02:41:31] wagnerrp: seems its my fault
[02:41:32] Cardoe: This database has been upgraded from like 0.09
[02:41:53] Cardoe: So waaaaay back in the day the backend used the FQDN for some odd reason
[02:41:55] sphery: wagnerrp: it's like you tempted fate into finding you someone who had used LocalHostName
[02:42:19] wagnerrp: yeah, but it would probably still be broken (assuming the config.xml doesnt have that same setting)
[02:42:56] sphery: s/.*/just means that config.xml would be mandatory for that case/
[02:43:08] Cardoe: I don't know what to set in the config.xml to support that
[02:43:14] Cardoe: I can convert the system to "meyer"
[02:43:20] wagnerrp: nothing, the python bindings dont support that setting anyway
[02:43:24] wagnerrp: (yet)
[02:43:39] Cardoe: Last time I tried (it's been years) the machine misbehaved and the wife got angry
[02:43:44] sphery: Cardoe: it would be <LocalHostName>meyer.cardoe.com</LocalHostName>, but ... what he said
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[02:44:47] sphery: Cardoe: To change the hostname, you could a) shut down all mythtv systems, b) run http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend with mythconverg_restore.pl --change_hostname --old_hostname="meyer.cardoe.com" --new_hostname="meyer"
[02:44:50] Cardoe: wagnerrp: Well since you seem to be saying yet. I can test a patch whenever you hack one up
[02:45:02] wagnerrp: are you running trunk or -fixes?
[02:45:05] sphery: and c) remove the LocalHostName from your mysql.txt, then d) restart everything
[02:45:06] Cardoe: Running -fixes
[02:45:25] Cardoe: sphery: I think I'll do that for future cases.
[02:45:28] wagnerrp: aww
[02:45:40] Cardoe: wagnerrp: If you got a patch for trunk, I'll backport it to -fixes
[02:45:57] wagnerrp: no, the code is completely different
[02:46:06] wagnerrp: both would have to be written from scratch
[02:46:23] wagnerrp: its actually not difficult to pull that value in
[02:46:33] wagnerrp: its digging out all the instances of socket.gethostname()
[02:47:25] wagnerrp: dont worry about it, ill put up patches for both branches sometime tonight
[02:48:07] wagnerrp: anyone have any experience with CPU die damage?
[02:48:42] sphery: I made a CPU die by damaging a pin on it :)
[02:48:50] wagnerrp: im trying to scrape off some thermal paste so i can re-seat it
[02:48:53] Cardoe: wagnerrp: depends what goal is?
[02:49:01] sphery: wagnerrp: Use a good solvent.
[02:49:03] wagnerrp: and i just scratched off a bit of the edge of an exposed die
[02:49:11] wagnerrp: wondering if i just killed the GPU
[02:49:14] sphery: oh...
[02:49:14] Cardoe: wagnerrp: you're probably ok
[02:49:27] Cardoe: you can go a LONG way
[02:49:36] Cardoe: wagnerrp: you're talking about the black stuff right?
[02:49:57] Cardoe: The chalky feeling part
[02:50:10] wagnerrp: ive just heard horror stories of people killing old AMD processors by crushing a bit of the corner when putting heatsinks on
[02:50:43] sphery: most say to use a good 95% isopropyl alcohol, but it doesn't tend to work for me, so I use something most would say you shouldn't, then use isopropyl alcohol to wash off the other solvent :)
[02:50:52] wagnerrp: talking about the silvery reflective stuff on the top
[02:50:54] sphery: Ronsonol ftw!
[02:51:16] Beirdo: don't forget the flame after...
[02:51:18] kormoc: Everclear!
[02:51:19] Beirdo: oh wait
[02:51:20] ** kormoc shifty eyes **
[02:51:21] Cardoe: wagnerrp: oh you're totally ok
[02:51:41] sphery: kormoc: what a waste of everclear
[02:51:53] kormoc: sphery, just drink it up afterwards
[02:51:57] Beirdo: yeah, we'd have to go to Oregon and get you more
[02:52:15] sphery: mmmm... thermal-pasty everclear
[02:52:15] wagnerrp: i guess ill get to that patch then
[02:52:25] Beirdo: patchy patchy
[02:52:40] sphery: besides, who needs a GPU for working on Python bindings
[02:52:42] wagnerrp: never expected bugs to pop up hours after discussing it... after years of it never being supported
[02:53:07] Beirdo: heh
[02:53:11] sphery: wagnerrp: see, the problem is that you /anticipated/ the problem--thereby inviting the problem
[02:54:34] Beirdo: the problem was too much thinking, not enough drinking
[02:54:44] Cardoe: Well I've had the issue forever... I just now got around to asking you guys
[02:55:01] Cardoe: But maybe you talking about it made me think of it
[02:55:08] Beirdo: good to see you on, Cardoe
[02:55:21] Beirdo: you've been hibernating a lot or something
[02:55:38] Cardoe: Just been wicked busy. Been neglecting Gentoo a little as well.
[02:56:16] Beirdo: it happens
[02:56:40] ** Beirdo glares at the mythbox **
[02:56:42] Cardoe: Since I changed jobs and I don't have a boss that has several MythTV machines at his house
[02:56:45] Beirdo: compile faster!
[02:57:15] Cardoe: Beirdo: sure you don't have wagnerrp's crushed processor that's leaking bits out of its broken corner?
[02:57:20] Beirdo: heh
[02:57:24] Beirdo: pretty sure
[02:57:42] Beirdo: but I had to make distclean... and cleaned out the ccache cache
[02:57:50] Beirdo: so it takes a while
[02:59:28] Beirdo: hmmm, where to look for the conversion of frame # to time...
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[03:02:58] dewman: ahh...think I am on to something here, I tried to kick off the backend and it complains about: error while loading shared libraries: libvdpau.so.1: cannot open shared object f
[03:03:48] Beirdo: 2010-07–29 20:02:48.006 Scheduled 1148 items in 18.1 = 10.71 match + 7.38 place
[03:03:52] Beirdo: oy
[03:06:38] Cardoe: dewman: the backend depends on components which depend on graphics. therefore, if you've built your MythTV with VDPAU support, you need to provide it
[03:06:48] Cardoe: dewman: what distro?
[03:08:46] dewman: Cardoe, no I never had vdpau, started with onboard intel video and then moved to a pci nvdia fx5700LE. Just got legacy drivers working tonight, but I think in the midst of everything of installing and purging I really borked the system. using mythbuntu
[03:10:00] Cardoe: dewman: well you've got to remember that Mythbuntu is precompiled on a central machine. They're going to add in all possible support in the package. So while you might not have a graphics card with VDPAU so have no interest in that support. Your distro supports it for the guy next door that wants/needs that support.
[03:11:03] Cardoe: dewman: So just do apt-get install libvdpau1
[03:11:08] Cardoe: dewman: you should be set after that
[03:12:21] dewman: wooohoo...Dang that was to easy.
[03:12:30] dewman: Cardoe, Thanks! =)
[03:12:40] Cardoe: dewman: np
[03:13:09] dewman: It was already installed so I didnt think about re-installing it..
[03:13:27] Cardoe: somehow the file must have gotten nuked or messed up
[03:13:33] Cardoe: but reinstalling made it all better
[03:15:34] dewman: yepper...Wife will be happy...
[03:16:15] Cardoe: angry wife = bad
[03:16:40] dewman: thanks again....off to bed...
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[03:20:58] kormoc: sphery, if you have the time to test some index improvements, http://pastebin.ca/1911499
[03:21:02] kormoc: (or anyone else)
[03:21:09] kormoc: should speed up mythfilldatabase
[03:26:54] Beirdo: Captain_Murdoch: any chance we can get frame rate dropped into the recordedmarkup along with resolution?
[03:27:36] Beirdo: trying to determine how to get the framerate of a recording.... I don't REALLY want to load up NVP just to get the frame rate
[03:27:46] kormoc: we have resolution already
[03:27:53] Beirdo: yeah
[03:28:18] Beirdo: I was just thinking, tack on another type for the frame rate, be done with it
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[03:28:29] Beirdo: then I can easily pull it back out
[03:31:01] Beirdo: eek
[03:31:12] Beirdo: recordedmarkup.data is an int
[03:31:21] Beirdo: so maybe framerate*100 :)
[03:31:49] kormoc: frames per minute!
[03:31:55] ** kormoc shifty eyes **
[03:32:00] Beirdo: hehe
[03:32:15] wagnerrp: you could always fake it
[03:32:23] wagnerrp: last keyframe index divided by total time
[03:32:38] Beirdo: hmmm, could
[03:32:52] Beirdo: I think I'd rather add it in commflag though :)
[03:33:07] Beirdo: 24.976
[03:33:09] Beirdo: argh
[03:33:14] Beirdo: framerate*1000
[03:33:20] Beirdo: and that's my final answer
[03:34:18] Beirdo: oh, should install the updated mythweb too
[03:34:59] Beirdo: since kormoc went to all the trouble of tweaking it :)
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[03:37:06] Cardoe: Beirdo: still using handrolled ebuilds?
[03:37:42] Cardoe: wagnerrp: need a hand? I'm trying to hack up the stuff for -fixes
[03:37:53] Beirdo: ebuilds? no
[03:38:04] Beirdo: ubuntu... but with trunk code :)
[03:38:04] wagnerrp: na, more need to finish watching futurama and actually get to it
[03:38:06] wagnerrp: :)
[03:38:06] Cardoe: Beirdo: gave up on Gentoo long ago?
[03:38:14] Beirdo: yeah, quite some time back
[03:38:28] Beirdo: just too much hands on messing about for my liking
[03:38:30] Cardoe: my frontend right now is actually Ubuntu
[03:38:34] Beirdo: I get enough of that at work :)
[03:39:03] Beirdo: although, as I develop in myth... I run trunk and hand-build anyways
[03:40:21] Cardoe: I still need to fix the MythTV Branch: setting for Gentoo ebuilds
[03:40:45] Cardoe: I can't seem to get the correct voodoo to make the build process happy
[03:41:17] Cardoe: Gentoo's using straight SVN checkouts
[03:41:25] Cardoe: but its an svn export
[03:42:02] kormoc: exports kill the svn info we use to pull it out
[03:43:03] Cardoe: kormoc: yeah I know. But there's a way to drop something in there like the official tarballs do
[03:46:04] Cardoe: kormoc: e.g. VERSION file in the top level is respected
[03:50:22] Cardoe: actually the behavior of that script looks tweaked
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[04:13:51] wagnerrp: ugh
[04:13:54] ** wagnerrp broke something **
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[04:14:53] Beirdo: makin omlettes, are we?
[04:17:20] wagnerrp: the event thread isnt starting up
[04:17:44] ** wagnerrp tries to figure out how code he wrote months ago works **
[04:19:08] wagnerrp: says its running, i see the handler still registered
[04:19:13] Beirdo: heh
[04:19:17] Beirdo: ain't coding fun?
[04:19:57] Cardoe: wagnerrp: hop into ring 0 and set EIP where you want it
[04:20:18] wagnerrp: woosh
[04:20:29] Beirdo: get in the ring....
[04:20:35] Beirdo: oh wait, that's different
[04:22:44] wagnerrp: Cardoe: that went so far over my head, i couldnt tell if it were a joke or not
[04:23:20] Cardoe: wagnerrp: ok off to watch some TV with the wife. But if you get that patch hacked up, I'll happily test it anytime.
[04:23:38] Cardoe: wagnerrp: sorry :( bad hardware joke
[04:24:01] Cardoe: ring 0 = kernel code... e.g. full access to anything and everything
[04:24:11] wagnerrp: ive got the patch for trunk, but i need to fix jamu/mirobridge
[04:24:19] wagnerrp: knew about ring0, and i figure EIP is some register
[04:24:28] Cardoe: EIP is the instruction pointer
[04:24:44] Beirdo: extended instruction pointer :)
[04:25:01] wagnerrp: im a bit concerned about fixing this in -fixes, since new jamu would not work with old bindings
[04:25:22] wagnerrp: but i guess thats not significant concern, since the two should be bundled together
[04:25:24] Cardoe: wagnerrp: well feel free to kick over the trunk patch... I'll play
[04:25:55] Cardoe: I just don't wanna write code and implement it differently from how you'd make it
[04:26:40] wagnerrp: http://www.wagnerrp.com/files/python.localhostname.patch
[04:26:52] Cardoe: woot! thanks
[04:26:57] wagnerrp: it basically just shifts all gethostname calls into the DBCache class
[04:27:17] wagnerrp: i would do something similar to -fixes, but since those structures have all changed, it will have to be from scratch
[04:27:23] wagnerrp: but like i said, thats the simple part
[04:27:39] wagnerrp: the hard part is just rooting out all those calls in the external code and replacing them
[04:27:52] wagnerrp: and i broke event handling a couple days ago, just noticed it now
[04:28:03] Cardoe: think I'm gonna get a connection time out
[04:28:17] Cardoe: apache turned off?
[04:28:19] wagnerrp: oh? has my ip changed?
[04:29:01] wagnerrp: yes it has
[04:29:05] wagnerrp: when did that happen...
[04:29:11] Cardoe: looks like you're 66.42.242.254 now
[04:29:20] wagnerrp: yep
[04:29:30] Cardoe: cable modem?
[04:29:38] wagnerrp: dsl
[04:30:12] Cardoe: wagnerrp: Do the hack I do... points www.wagnerrp.com at wagnerrp.dyndns.org via a CNAME
[04:30:13] wagnerrp: technically ive got half a dozen IPs
[04:30:22] Cardoe: and have wagnerrp.dyndns.org updated by a box at your house
[04:30:36] wagnerrp: only one that seems to have changed is the one bound to the web server
[04:30:42] Cardoe: weird
[04:31:35] wagnerrp: i swear, godaddy keeps changing their site to make you have to dig deeper to get into your DNS settings
[04:31:53] wagnerrp: and wtf is this popup
[04:32:05] Beirdo: heeh, technically, I have more IPs than all of IPv4 put together
[04:32:06] Beirdo: :)
[04:35:16] wagnerrp: dyndns now lets you control your TTL?
[04:35:47] wagnerrp: last time i used it, there was 'dynamic' which was like half an hour, and 'static' which was a couple hours
[04:36:22] wagnerrp: oh, 60 seconds
[04:36:38] wagnerrp: yeah, thats a lot shorter than my half-hour timeouts on godaddy
[04:39:46] Beirdo: godaddy and UrMom?
[04:39:47] Beirdo: heh
[04:39:56] Beirdo: I'm in an odd mood, I think
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[04:51:21] wagnerrp: well, scratch that bit about that being the hard part
[04:51:30] Beirdo: hehe
[04:51:52] ** Beirdo impatiently waits for 10pm to bounce the backend **
[04:52:37] [R]: 10pm
[04:52:39] [R]: jersey shore 2!
[04:53:04] wagnerrp: Beirdo: youre going to miss 'the situation'
[04:53:42] Beirdo: what situation?
[04:54:00] wagnerrp: /the/ situation
[04:54:18] ** Beirdo has no idea WTH wagnerrp is smoking :) **
[04:54:26] [R]: Beirdo: just google "the situation"
[04:54:35] [R]: i bet theres some awesome image hits
[04:55:07] Beirdo: oh bah
[04:55:18] wagnerrp: do i even have mtv on my lineup?
[04:55:26] [R]: i dont have espn
[04:55:28] Beirdo: Jersey Shore sounds like a show I'd hate
[04:55:31] [R]: and it confused my friend when he came over last time
[04:55:48] wagnerrp: looks like i do
[04:55:49] [R]: he wanted to watch some type of sporting event i think
[04:55:56] wagnerrp: i actually thought i had blanked that from my SD lineup
[04:56:17] [R]: i think my lineup is like 3/4 cleared
[04:56:51] Beirdo: the only things I removed were shopping networks, PPV and channels I don't get
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[05:02:32] Beirdo: OK, these constant H.264 errors are so annoying
[05:04:15] Beirdo: kormoc: does your commflagging spew them too?
[05:04:21] [R]: i just ignore them
[05:07:09] kormoc: Beirdo, aye
[05:07:44] Beirdo: OK, so it's not just me :)
[05:07:55] Beirdo: hehe. I would really like to see those bugger off.
[05:08:23] Beirdo: the files are fine, regardless of what libavcodec or whatever thinks
[05:08:26] [R]: so hax0r the lib
[05:10:22] Beirdo: along with the Gibson
[05:11:26] ** wagnerrp wants a glowing pillar file system **
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[05:31:08] wagnerrp: Cardoe: ive got updated versions in the repository for both trunk and -fixes
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[05:55:23] Cardoe: wagnerrp: awesome. Thanks! just got done watching TV with the wife and was about to dive in
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[06:05:09] wagnerrp: HDHR on woot for $85
[06:05:29] [R]: i thought you said hdpvr
[06:05:34] [R]: i was like "wtf mate"
[06:06:08] kormoc: it's still a wtf
[06:06:11] kormoc: it's almost half off
[06:06:18] kormoc: and really tempting for me to grab one
[06:06:22] [R]: and its the dual tuner
[06:06:23] wagnerrp: new too
[06:06:29] wagnerrp: not a refurb
[06:06:36] [R]: if i neeeded it
[06:06:37] [R]: but i don't
[06:06:47] kormoc: but you could use it
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[06:07:14] [R]: Nerds and sports. It’s as natural as peanut butter and chocolate.
[06:07:15] [R]: i don't get it
[06:07:32] [R]: kormoc: i already have a pci qam tuner... and i never have conflicts... so not really
[06:07:43] wagnerrp: im usually fine with my one HDHR, ive only occasionally spilled over to my 1250, and never needed a fourth
[06:08:07] wagnerrp: maybe if i were recording off an antenna, i could use a fourth
[06:08:21] wagnerrp: but pulling through cable, theres really only two muxes i ever use
[06:08:55] Beirdo: I hope this works
[06:08:58] Beirdo: heheh
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[06:09:11] Beirdo: I am adding frame rate detection into H264Parser.cpp
[06:09:24] Beirdo: thank you ITU.T for publishing the spec for free
[06:09:27] wagnerrp: oh, i thought you were trying to kick some random person out of the channel
[06:09:40] Beirdo: hehe
[06:09:51] ** wagnerrp waves bye to And4713 **
[06:09:56] wagnerrp: never knew what hit him...
[06:10:11] ** kormoc waits for 11:30 to see if his scheduler changes work **
[06:10:34] kormoc: my raw sql tests show a 48% improvement, but who knows if it's right... :P
[06:10:34] Beirdo: kormoc: don't ya hate that? :)
[06:10:42] Beirdo: oooh, nice
[06:11:10] [R]: is consuming raw sql bad for your health?
[06:11:51] kormoc: only the BFQ type
[06:12:00] [R]: bfq?
[06:12:27] Beirdo: big frigging query?
[06:12:30] kormoc: yeah
[06:12:33] wagnerrp: bad fu--- query?
[06:12:33] kormoc: aka the scheduler
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[06:13:05] Beirdo: yeah, it's a BFQ
[06:13:20] [R]: oh
[06:14:11] kormoc: 4289 characters long, tis all
[06:14:28] Beirdo: not much :)
[06:14:30] Beirdo: hehe
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[06:16:26] Beirdo: dangit.
[06:16:36] Beirdo: I have to wait for MIDNIGHT?
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[06:17:03] wagnerrp: kormoc: couldnt you just manually issue a scheduler run?
[06:17:09] Beirdo: recording Trailer Park Boys
[06:17:25] Beirdo: bah
[06:19:11] kormoc: wagnerrp, got to bounce the backend for the code to take effect
[06:19:28] Beirdo: 2010-07–29 23:19:22.972 dtvrecorder: frame rate = 60
[06:19:31] Beirdo: hehehe
[06:19:34] Beirdo: OMG
[06:19:41] Beirdo: OK, it actually worked?!
[06:20:41] Beirdo: it's printing it once per frame though
[06:20:48] Beirdo: oops
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[06:27:30] Beirdo: poor drive's going crazy
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[06:34:47] Beirdo: WOOOHOOO
[06:34:49] Beirdo: OK
[06:35:05] Beirdo: so I have code in for dtvrecorder, both MPEG2 and H.264
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[06:35:22] Beirdo: it will store the framerate into recordedmarkup
[06:35:27] Beirdo: :)
[06:35:59] Beirdo: quick break, and I'll check to see what other recorders need it
[06:36:16] Beirdo: this is gonna be one monster patch
[06:37:39] ** wagnerrp has already filled a third of his new hard drive **
[06:40:39] Beirdo: hehe
[06:40:43] Beirdo: slow down :)
[06:41:00] wagnerrp: no, its all stuff i had backed up offline as i ran out of space
[06:41:01] kormoc: old: Scheduled 2895 items in 16.3 = 0.00 match + 16.33 place, new: Scheduled 2895 items in 10.1 = 0.22 match + 9.86 place
[06:41:01] Beirdo: you don't need 1080i in raw video :)
[06:41:05] Beirdo: oooh
[06:41:12] Beirdo: kormoc: nice
[06:41:22] Beirdo: thats a significant speedup
[06:41:58] kormoc: and that's in a debug build :)
[06:42:08] Beirdo: nice
[06:44:02] kormoc: [25498]
[06:44:11] kormoc: now that's a huge patch
[06:48:36] Beirdo: hehehe
[06:48:43] Beirdo: that's it? :)
[06:48:47] Beirdo: hehe
[06:48:48] kormoc: yup
[06:49:51] kormoc: if the program has already ended, don't bother attempting to schedule it
[06:50:24] wagnerrp: looks like im going to be keeping these drives independent, they wont be going into any future RAID
[06:50:55] wagnerrp: theyre the EARS units, which have a 4k block size, but will only present the normal 512b block size to the system
[06:51:18] wagnerrp: which causes funkiness in ZFS's dynamic striping
[06:56:44] Beirdo: eww
[06:56:45] Beirdo: sucky
[06:57:19] wagnerrp: i only ever intended them for bulk storage, so im not /that/ concerned
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[07:11:14] sphery: wagnerrp: is that why fdisk'ing them a couple of times can create slightly different-sized partitions (off by 4K or so)
[07:11:54] wagnerrp: ive not heard of that one
[07:12:07] sphery: nor have I--I just saw it
[07:14:36] justinh: huh – Mythtv Contractors Google group now?
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[07:16:31] sphery: unfortunately, I can't prove it, because the one (of 3) 2TB HDD's that fdisk'ed differently got a corrupt sector where the filesystem master block was written, so it's since been re-fdisk'ed and formatted and the 2nd time it got the same size as the other 2
[07:16:42] sphery: (all WD Greens)
[07:17:12] sphery: also made me wonder if that was why the file system got corrupted...
[07:17:29] kormoc: if it's exposing 512 byte sectors, it shouldn't appear any different at all
[07:17:55] kormoc: if it's exposing 4k sectors, you just need to partition the first offset slightly higher for it to align correctly and it's all good
[07:18:01] wagnerrp: the problem is that its exposing them, but thats not reality
[07:18:19] wagnerrp: so your MBR takes the first 7.875 blocks
[07:18:27] sphery: these aren't shingled sectors are they?
[07:18:29] wagnerrp: and every subsequent partition after that is wrong
[07:18:38] kormoc: just start your partition at 64 rather then 63, problem solved
[07:19:01] wagnerrp: kormoc: right.... you just need to know that you need to do that ahead of time
[07:19:24] kormoc: you have more then one drive... :P
[07:19:41] wagnerrp: ?
[07:20:00] kormoc: can't migrate data off of it again and redo the partition?
[07:20:09] wagnerrp: i didnt partition
[07:20:39] sphery: wagnerrp: I think, also, that if you really want 4K sectors, you need to jumper pins 7&8
[07:21:13] sphery: wagnerrp: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/e . . . 2C294#jumper , under "Adv Format"
[07:21:20] kormoc: you're doing raw zfs devices eh? that's brave
[07:21:28] sphery: though check the drive carefully to make sure that's the right spec sheet
[07:21:42] sphery: (since I don't see the delayed spinup on that one)
[07:22:05] wagnerrp: no, that jumper tells it to internally reformat itself to be true 512b blocks
[07:22:24] Beirdo: "you should call the dumb-ulance"
[07:22:26] Beirdo: hehe
[07:22:33] Beirdo: Trailer Park Boys++
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[07:23:20] sphery: wagnerrp: this makes it sounds like Adv Fmt is 4K blocks: http://computingondemand.com/what-is-advanced . . . ector-drives
[07:23:31] wagnerrp: kormoc: the problem is that ZFS does no partitioning
[07:23:33] sphery: guess the WD sheet uses opposite terminology?
[07:24:20] Beirdo: wagnerrp: you and your ZFS :)
[07:24:21] wagnerrp: it has a dynamic block size, and if it thinks you have 512b blocks, it will automatically scale in 512b increments
[07:24:21] Beirdo: hehe
[07:25:53] kormoc: wagnerrp, but you can partition and afaik that's the recommended way for linux
[07:26:27] Beirdo: linux?
[07:26:35] Beirdo: oO
[07:26:42] Beirdo: I think he's doing this on freebsd
[07:26:56] wagnerrp: im not partitioning it, so there is no 63block mbr offset i have to worry about
[07:27:22] wagnerrp: the problem is that ZFS /thinks/ it can partition at 512b because the disk tells it so, and theres no way to inform it otherwise
[07:27:28] kormoc: but you could partition it and fix the issue...
[07:27:31] ** kormoc shrugs **
[07:28:45] Beirdo: hehe
[07:28:55] sphery: oh, I finally figured out that it's saying (without saying, of course) that jumpering pins 7/8 /disables/ Adv Format
[07:28:55] Beirdo: this show is SO not channel-friendly
[07:29:00] sphery: nice docs, there WD
[07:29:37] sphery: I don't care what a certain 22TB resident says, I like my Seagate, "We're not SMART," drives
[07:29:37] kormoc: sphery, it does specify it's for windows xp specifically
[07:29:56] sphery: yes, but it doesn't say, "Disables Adv Format"
[07:30:02] sphery: it labels it "Adv Format"
[07:30:10] Beirdo: I'll take the Seagate SMRT smart drives too, generally :)
[07:30:21] sphery: and since I don't /expect/ them to explain how to configure for GNU/Linux, I have to try to read between the lines
[07:30:28] sphery: which is hard when they don't say what they're saying
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[07:31:18] sphery: my drive is claiming 512B sectors, too
[07:31:34] sphery: per fdisk -lu /dev/sdb ... Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
[07:32:10] sphery: and the difference in fdisking was likely the start@63 vs start@64
[07:32:48] sphery: so is it bad if it starts @63?
[07:32:58] sphery: kormoc said something about it not being aligned?
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[07:33:17] wagnerrp: yes, the block sizing has to do with the ECC data
[07:33:25] wagnerrp: think of it like RAID5
[07:33:34] wagnerrp: you have a block of data followed by ECC data
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[07:33:49] sphery: so do I need to repartition mine?
[07:33:49] kormoc: sphery, basically if it's offset, you have to read 2 4k blocks to verify the data vs 1
[07:34:11] kormoc: you have that jumper set?
[07:34:13] wagnerrp: the filesystem is designed to write an entire block at once, so you can just write the ECC data as well
[07:34:15] sphery: so repartitioning would be good
[07:34:19] sphery: no, no jumper on it
[07:34:30] wagnerrp: if you write <4K, you have to read the existing data, and then write out the new ECC data
[07:34:39] wagnerrp: the write-read-write issue with RAID5
[07:34:40] sphery: it must be doing that "auto" garbage wagnerrp mentioned
[07:34:41] kormoc: yeah, you should realign it and tell your FS that it's 4k block size
[07:35:09] sphery: tell filesystem when I do a mkfs?
[07:35:15] kormoc: aye
[07:35:29] sphery: well, on the bright side, it's only 780GB
[07:35:44] sphery: now to find a place to put it all so I can repartition and reformat
[07:35:48] wagnerrp: but like kormoc states, if its misaligned by that 512b block, /all/ write operations will suffer from that write-read-write issue
[07:35:54] wagnerrp: and you will have huge performance losses
[07:36:16] sphery: that would explain the 20min to mkfs
[07:36:18] sphery: :)
[07:36:28] wagnerrp: but for mythtv's purposes of largely immutable data
[07:36:33] wagnerrp: it probably doesnt matter that much
[07:36:37] sphery: yeah, it hasn't been a problem, yet
[07:36:45] sphery: but I can't leave it "broken"
[07:36:50] sphery: even if it's not hurting anything
[07:36:58] sphery: so why doesn't it just do the right thing?
[07:36:58] wagnerrp: you write with reduced performance, and let it sit for years
[07:37:08] sphery: I've never had to be smarter than my HDD before
[07:37:14] wagnerrp: because WD decided not to have the firmware report the proper information
[07:37:28] Beirdo: WD--
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[07:37:33] wagnerrp: instead relying on windows vista/7 which 'know' how to handle it
[07:37:36] kormoc: nah, it's a 512E drive
[07:37:47] sphery: yeah, I'm thinking you all were playing a joke on me when you made fun of me for buying Seagate
[07:37:50] kormoc: it's specced to claim 512 sectors, as do the seagate 512e drives
[07:38:01] sphery: and now that I finally got a WD, you're all laughing at my expense
[07:38:13] wagnerrp: i think vista/7 just automatically assume a 4K block always
[07:38:28] kormoc: we're in a transition period, once we move to the full adv format drive spec, it'll be right
[07:38:29] wagnerrp: so the disks are set up such that they will work on all windows systems by default
[07:38:37] kormoc: it's just too much legacy stuff out there
[07:38:44] sphery: so I don't need to do anything to the drive itself to tell it to use 4K?
[07:38:50] kormoc: nope
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[07:38:55] wagnerrp: its doing that already
[07:38:55] sphery: it will just do it if I partition "aligned"
[07:39:01] wagnerrp: its just reporting that its using 512b
[07:39:12] wagnerrp: so linux/bsd/whatever assumes the drive is not lying
[07:39:20] kormoc: it maps in the drive firmware the 512b to the correct 4k one
[07:39:25] sphery: So what's this about getting 11% more usable space?
[07:39:33] wagnerrp: more lies
[07:39:38] kormoc: who claimed that?
[07:40:07] wagnerrp: by only doing ECC on 4K blocks, there is less redundancy, so there is more recovered data space
[07:40:13] sphery: the internet did
[07:40:15] wagnerrp: but its still a 2TB drive
[07:40:15] sphery: http://computingondemand.com/what-is-advanced . . . ector-drives
[07:40:26] wagnerrp: it just means there is less physical storage space internal to the disk
[07:40:35] sphery: "With Advanced Format Technology an increase of format efficiency of 87% from the 512 byte sectors has been improved to a format efficiency of 96%. The format efficiency gains can allow for an 11% increase in usable disk space while improving the error correction burst rate by 50%."
[07:40:59] sphery: though--from their own description--it makes no sense
[07:41:03] wagnerrp: WD can sell you the same amount of space with a lower density
[07:41:18] sphery: i.e. before is 8x512B and after is 1x4KiB, so... where's the 11%
[07:41:38] kormoc: they're claiming the intersector gaps are now 'usable'
[07:41:42] kormoc: but that's just not true
[07:41:54] wagnerrp: before it was 8x512+64, while now its 1x4096+256
[07:41:57] wagnerrp: or something like that
[07:42:04] sphery: yeah
[07:42:10] sphery: that's what the pic looks like, too
[07:42:10] wagnerrp: there is less overall ECC data on the disk
[07:42:32] sphery: (where that web site stole the pic and some of the text--but not the "interpretation"--directly from WD's sheet)
[07:42:36] kormoc: but the extra space is used in the remappable area for bad sectors
[07:42:47] sphery: heh, funny
[07:42:49] kormoc: rather then remapping 512 bytes, you have to remap 4k now
[07:43:02] sphery: glad I have real tech experts to tell me when the Internet is wrong
[07:43:11] sphery: this is why I do software and not hardware
[07:43:15] sphery: hardware is, er, hard
[07:43:29] Beirdo: that's what she said
[07:43:33] sphery: heh
[07:43:41] sphery: now I want to watch The Office
[07:43:51] sphery: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc.cfg/php/e . . . ;p_topview=1
[07:44:01] sphery: (sorry for the URI-athon)
[07:44:04] Beirdo: OMG, nasty URL
[07:44:08] sphery: Can I install a WD Advanced Format Drive on a non-Windows Operating System?
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[07:44:17] kormoc: ooh, so on a non-debug mythbackend build, my scheduler was running at 8 to 12 seconds and is now running at 3 to 7 seconds
[07:44:25] sphery: which says exactly what you guys said
[07:44:53] sphery: kormoc: but have you fixed gbee's and This Other Guy's?
[07:44:56] sphery: :D
[07:45:07] kormoc: sphery, heh, I can't reproduce it :(
[07:45:13] kormoc: even going back to myisam
[07:45:42] sphery: yeah, I have no clue what could cause that
[07:45:45] sphery: mine seems fine
[07:45:49] sphery: and it's always been MyISAM
[07:46:03] sphery: maybe I should have them backup/drop/restore
[07:46:04] sphery: :)
[07:46:14] kormoc: If my last patch helps their scheduler time, it's something with the program table, if it doesn't, it's something else
[07:47:14] Beirdo: hehe, that's deep
[07:47:25] sphery: I have heard many users (including some dev users) complain of "slow MythTV" which seems more like extraordinarily bad performance from MySQL. I've been wondering if the distros are doing something wrong in config.
[07:47:55] kormoc: gbee had a *huge* number of non-indexed joins
[07:48:03] kormoc: those are bad, m'kay
[07:48:14] Beirdo: that's an app issue, no?
[07:48:28] Beirdo: as in we have stupid queries somewhere?
[07:48:30] kormoc: well, could be queries, could be too small of buffers
[07:48:41] Beirdo: ah
[07:48:52] kormoc: Beirdo, I turned on my processing to full bore tonight (hence the two speedups)
[07:49:05] kormoc: nothing sticks out as horrible
[07:49:12] sphery: kormoc: his tuning report did say something about increasing the buffer size for cache
[07:49:17] Beirdo: fair enough
[07:49:21] kormoc: sphery, care to dump a clean, updated schema somewhere?
[07:49:41] kormoc: sphery, yeah, but mine is same sized, so I'm hesitant to say that'd solve it
[07:50:11] sphery: hmmm
[07:50:21] sphery: clean, updated schema with no data?
[07:50:25] kormoc: yeah
[07:50:35] kormoc: I know mine is slightly non-vanilla
[07:50:36] sphery: give me a couple minutes to create one
[07:50:56] kormoc: it'd be nice to be able to compare theirs with a known clean one to verify it's not a schema issue
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[07:55:34] kormoc: Yerg, it's late, I gotta sleep
[07:55:51] sphery: kormoc: http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythconve . . . 35441.sql.gz
[07:56:14] kormoc: snaz, thanks much
[07:56:23] sphery: just initialized with mythtv-setup (and trunc'ed keybindings)
[07:56:45] ** kormoc nods **
[07:56:55] kormoc: ahh, should have thought of that myself actually
[07:56:56] sphery: no plugin schemas in there
[07:57:11] sphery: well, it's easy for me to drop/restore my dev db
[07:57:20] sphery: depending on your setup, it may be much more challenging for you
[07:57:31] sphery: (i.e. if you're working on a production system)
[07:57:33] kormoc: heh, yeah, I need to setup a dev vm
[07:57:39] kormoc: yeah, I do
[07:57:52] sphery: yeah, so feel free to ask me to do db-destructive things
[07:57:53] kormoc: makes it... fun and exciting when a restart and something goes wrong :P
[07:58:06] sphery: I'd much rather kill my schema than yours
[07:58:18] ** kormoc tips his hat **
[07:58:27] kormoc: and I need zZzZzZz's
[07:58:28] kormoc: night all!
[07:58:38] sphery: g'night--and thanks for looking into this
[07:58:41] Beirdo: night, kormoc
[07:58:45] sphery: and for the help with the HDD
[07:58:46] Beirdo: you're kickin ass :)
[07:58:49] sphery: and thank you wagnerrp
[07:59:09] sphery: now I just have to find 780GB of temp storage...
[07:59:15] Beirdo: heheh
[07:59:41] ** Beirdo patiently waits for the recording to end **
[07:59:50] sphery: as wagnerrp said, "right.... you just need to know that you need to do that ahead of time"
[08:00:18] sphery: much easier to do it right in the first place
[08:02:54] sphery: hmmm... I have 818GB on a 2TB on my remote backend, and my remote backend isn't needed for recording, tomorrow, so I can shut down mythbackend on it and rsync back and forth without worrying about time
[08:03:02] ** sphery starts the rsync'age **
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[08:10:24] sphery: heh, if you forget the hostname on the rsync "to" address, it doesn't do what you want
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[08:29:35] justinh: damn these programs that don't read our minds
[08:31:13] Beirdo: hehe
[08:31:37] Beirdo: git mergetool is my friend
[08:32:18] Beirdo: markk started changing around some videodecoder stuff :)
[08:32:36] Beirdo: all fine and dandy, but it broke one of the patchsets I have applied here
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[08:36:47] hot_wheelz: How does somone attach a nick to the logs that mythbuntu log grabber produces and then posts to mythbuntu.pastebin.com so you can id them easyly rather than being Anonymous all the time?
[08:38:13] Beirdo: how would we know?
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[08:38:36] Beirdo: #mythbuntu MIGHT know, but this is mythtv, not mythbuntu :)
[08:40:52] Beirdo: argh
[08:40:58] Beirdo: my merge borked it
[08:41:06] Beirdo: what did I miss?
[08:41:30] hot_wheelz: +Beirdo tried there no answer...Just thoght i'd try here while waiting
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[08:45:47] justinh: time to make us a PoE wattmeter
[08:48:08] Beirdo: better that than a POS one
[08:48:28] justinh: lol
[08:48:42] justinh: it's a PoE wattmeter for PoS products
[08:49:12] justinh: because apparently our engineers are incapable of estimating power consumption of things
[08:53:10] Beirdo: hehe
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[09:28:30] justinh: hmmm seems Robert Llewellyn's Car Pool podcast has been picked up & turned into a tv show by Five
[09:31:13] oobe: that's terrible
[09:31:47] justinh: how so?
[09:32:56] justinh: I think he was only doing the podcast in the first place as a kind of pilot
[09:35:40] oobe: oh i meant that's excellent
[09:35:49] oobe: i get those 2 things confused
[09:36:10] justinh: riiiight
[09:36:24] oobe: sorry i dont actually no who that guy is im just being silly
[09:36:38] justinh: he played Kryten in Red Dwarf
[09:36:44] oobe: awesome
[09:36:49] oobe: yea i do know him
[09:37:02] oobe: red dwarf was excellent
[09:37:14] justinh: car pool has had a lot of interesting guests
[09:37:27] oobe: although i never got round to watching their recent return episode
[09:37:34] justinh: don't
[09:37:42] oobe: i watched the start
[09:37:49] oobe: so its crap?
[09:37:58] justinh: it's really not worth it. I was a fan until S6 or so but I really thought the revival was a waste of disk space
[09:38:02] oobe: they wanted to make a movie for so long
[09:38:12] oobe: I think thats how the show got tied up
[09:38:18] justinh: they need both writers back on board
[09:38:23] justinh: it's not the same
[09:39:53] justinh: oops not as good I mean
[09:39:57] justinh: nothing like as good
[09:40:09] justinh: I think even some real diehard fans hated the revamp
[09:40:51] oobe: I saw enough to notice they wernt continueing the story from where rimmer was about to die
[09:40:59] oobe: and they seemed doomed
[09:41:25] justinh: I lost interest in the original series when the nanobots reconstructed the ship & crew
[09:42:29] justinh: anyway car pool has had v. interesting subjects. Robert basically just gives a 'celeb' a lift somewhere & they chat about stuff
[09:42:44] oobe: oh cool
[09:42:55] justinh: in a Prius lol
[09:43:29] oobe: ok
[09:43:36] oobe: well the budget might improve
[09:44:01] justinh: there's an eco angle in there somewhere
[09:44:08] oobe: he should install upskirt camera's in the shotgun seat and make some extra money selling the pictures to smut mags
[09:44:28] oobe: i might send him an email with that idea
[09:44:40] justinh: sign it "your biggest fan"
[09:45:13] oobe: haha
[09:45:31] oobe: imdb says the revamp of red dwarf was written by both
[09:45:41] oobe: but season 8 in 99 was only written by one
[09:45:59] justinh: it was?! eew.
[09:46:08] justinh: got the impression it'd been phoned in
[09:46:35] oobe: maybe i dont know
[09:46:41] oobe: just looking at the credits on imdb
[09:47:06] oobe: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0684142/fullcredits#writers
[09:47:30] oobe: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1500279/fullcredits#writers
[09:48:08] justinh: ouch. well whatever. it sucked
[09:48:59] justinh: "Painful, self gratifying rubbish " completely sums it up
[09:49:08] oobe: there down fall was not continueing on from season 8 and trying to make a feature film
[09:50:04] justinh: the downfall was that only Dave would pick it up – as a consequence they had FA budget
[09:51:02] oobe: so none of the other actors wanted to do the movie?
[09:51:45] justinh: don't know. maybe they read the script
[09:52:02] oobe: i thought it was just a funding problem
[09:52:29] justinh: who'd stick their neck out for anything with a sub-par script? ;-)
[09:52:47] oobe: "A stage project, based on the Dwarf movie script, is currently under consideration. As ever, the website will report any updates as they happen."
[09:53:19] justinh: no, Craig Charles said in a car pool episode it might be possible to DO a stage show now
[09:53:42] oobe: ok
[09:53:53] justinh: he'd seen Chitty Chitty bang bang in the West End & thought heh, they have the tech – we could have a stage show
[09:53:53] oobe: well this is from here http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/help/
[09:54:08] justinh: I'd expect nothing less from a fansite :)
[09:54:25] oobe: I dont know if they would need the original cast for a stage show
[09:54:51] oobe: its a site for fans made by the red dwarf creators
[09:54:53] justinh: prolly not, but hardcore fans will watch anything
[09:55:37] oobe: Registrant's address:
[09:55:38] oobe: Red Dwarf Production Office
[09:55:40] justinh: hmm maybe it IS official that somebody is considering a stage show then. whatever. it's more likely to happen than a movie but even so. :P
[09:56:01] justinh: I think I'd sooner go see 'we will rock you' lol
[09:56:07] oobe: that site is what kept all the hype up on the movie
[09:56:33] oobe: they also refered to themselves in 1st person when talking about attempts to get funding
[09:56:35] justinh: I always tend to think that if they're really in talks & they're going somewhere they wouldn't say
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[10:31:02] henkpoley: Ah doh, storage groups actually do work (never tried them, never needed it either)
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[10:37:34] justinh: heh. engineer was asking me if I was going to label the meter in Marine Volts
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[11:59:32] ThisOtherGuy: hey all – does anyone know if jamu is broken in trunk?
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[12:18:26] justinh: you might know if you'd be following -commits & -dev mailing lists
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[12:20:19] ThisOtherGuy: I follow both but haven't caught up this morning yet
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[12:23:38] wagnerrp: ThisOtherGuy: shouldnt be, but i changed some stuff in the bindings last night
[12:23:42] wagnerrp: whats the problem
[12:24:32] ThisOtherGuy: I saw this in my error log last night: http://pastebin.com/51ycKJLz
[12:26:15] ThisOtherGuy: This is on 25456
[12:27:45] wagnerrp: looks to me more like something wrong with your recordings
[12:27:58] wagnerrp: specifically, duplicate chanid/starttime in the recordedprogram table
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[12:28:59] ThisOtherGuy: hmm – any way to tell what? I guess I need some sql-fu
[12:32:38] ThisOtherGuy: yeah – you're right – something that recorded in january – any idea why it would just have become a problem 2 nights ago (that's when I upgraded to 25456)
[12:32:58] wagnerrp: could you pastebin the mysql output?
[12:33:33] ThisOtherGuy: http://pastebin.com/fxHmV4pd
[12:34:39] ThisOtherGuy: it's a fake recording I made off of my vcr into an hdpvr
[12:34:40] wagnerrp: sphery: got any suggestions? ^^^
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[12:35:29] wagnerrp: ThisOtherGuy: it may have been some error that JAMU previously handled internally
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[12:36:01] wagnerrp: but since i screwed up the exception, it returned a different error type that JAMU did not catch
[12:36:10] wagnerrp: has since been fixed
[12:36:29] ThisOtherGuy: so maybe if I upgrade it will go away?
[12:36:56] wagnerrp: likely jamu will simple catch the exception, and skip it
[12:38:40] ThisOtherGuy: k – i'll try it – thanks
[12:49:26] wagnerrp: ThisOtherGuy: do you have matching duplicate entries in the `recorded` table?
[12:50:43] ThisOtherGuy: no
[12:54:13] ThisOtherGuy: looks like just one record that starts at 12:08 and not 12:00
[12:55:08] wagnerrp: i want to say 'broken database', but i really dont know
[12:55:14] ThisOtherGuy: oh – that's starttime not progstart – progstart is still 12:00
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[12:55:23] wagnerrp: would have to confirm with someone who knows more about the schema
[12:56:00] ThisOtherGuy: so one recorded with 2 recordedprogram, in theory I could just delete one of the recordedprogram records and all would be well
[12:56:08] fiftyonefifty: HDHomeRun, dual channel, new, $85 over at woot.com
[12:56:12] ThisOtherGuy: ?
[12:56:27] wagnerrp: i want to say yes, but i dont know why it would be there in the first place
[12:56:45] wagnerrp: i would more expect to see it the opposite way around
[12:57:00] wagnerrp: multiple `recorded` entries for a single `recordedprogram` entry
[12:57:13] wagnerrp: the recorded table are the actual physical recordings
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[12:57:26] wagnerrp: while the recordedprogram table matches the guide data
[12:57:45] wagnerrp: so if you restart recording multiple times, you could have multiple recordings for a single recordedprogram
[12:58:09] wagnerrp: which is why its matching progstart, and not starttime
[12:58:10] ThisOtherGuy: I think what happened was I pressed play on the vcr and it screwed up the first time, so the second time I didn't want to type out the whole name of the program so I did a shorter name
[12:59:38] wagnerrp: drive-by advertising?
[13:00:45] wagnerrp: im actually a bit surprised that isnt broken in the UI
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[13:01:53] ThisOtherGuy: It just shows one row in the UI (which is fine since there's only one file)
[13:02:32] wagnerrp: maybe theres a 'limit 1' in the query
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[13:07:30] ThisOtherGuy: can anyone help me with a compile error in 25503: http://pastebin.com/RbTD5WhW
[13:10:31] wagnerrp: rewrite cpp so it supports UTF-8? :)
[13:12:09] oobe: wagnerrp rememember that problem i had with a certain show not recording
[13:12:18] wagnerrp: nope
[13:12:23] oobe: oh ok
[13:12:31] oobe: dw
[13:13:22] wagnerrp: ThisOtherGuy: no changes in that file in over a year
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[13:15:17] ThisOtherGuy: I saw that mythtranscode has changed recently – maybe something in there?
[13:16:23] wagnerrp: the only thing i can think is that you ran make without a distclean
[13:16:37] wagnerrp: and youve got garbage from a previous compile laying around screwing things up
[13:16:56] ThisOtherGuy: I did clean not distclean – I'll try that
[13:17:19] ThisOtherGuy: though it looks like helper.c removed some includes – could that be an issue?
[13:17:27] wagnerrp: yeah, if you ever get compile errors after a 'svn up', thats always the first thing to try
[13:18:05] ThisOtherGuy: k
[13:21:58] ThisOtherGuy: same error
[13:22:48] ThisOtherGuy: including "mpeg2.h" in helper.c makes most of the errors go away
[13:24:01] ThisOtherGuy: including "attributes.h" fixes the rest
[13:32:32] wagnerrp: looks like someone is listening in
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[13:34:59] ThisOtherGuy: wagnerrp: now that I've upgraded – I get this error when running jamu: http://pastebin.com/uWb1eX07 any ideas?
[13:37:19] wagnerrp: whoops, didnt see that one coming
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[13:38:45] wagnerrp: looks to be several of those
[13:39:22] justinh: heh guess I won't be bothering to set an out of office responder. you have to keep your machine on for thunderbird to do that
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[14:01:51] justinh: oof lovefilm are starting a streaming service. 800K/sec
[14:02:25] wagnerrp: KB or Kb?
[14:02:45] justinh: Kb
[14:02:50] wagnerrp: eew
[14:03:10] ThisOtherGuy: wagnerrp: do you know if I'm having a bad data issue?
[14:03:18] wagnerrp: where?
[14:03:35] ThisOtherGuy: http://pastebin.com/uWb1eX07
[14:03:53] wagnerrp: works fine here, might want to try updating JAMU
[14:04:38] ** wagnerrp points at the commit logs **
[14:05:36] justinh: 800k/sec is only gonna be as good as dodgy xvids at best
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[14:05:46] justinh: assuming it's mpeg4-ish
[14:07:33] ThisOtherGuy: wagnerrp – cool thanks
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[14:30:43] Cardoe_: wagnerrp: ping
[14:30:49] wagnerrp: yeah
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[14:31:02] Cardoe_: wagnerrp: that patch in -fixes didn't backport the change to jamu.py
[14:31:38] wagnerrp: no, its a different patch to allow it to allow it to use either the original or the altered bindings
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[14:31:49] wagnerrp: (or should be anyway)
[14:33:05] wagnerrp: it tries too use the value stored in the database connection (pulled from config.xml)
[14:33:25] wagnerrp: and if it fails for whatever reason, falls back to the old method of pulling it out of the socket libraries
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[14:47:28] ** iamlindoro wonders why we need a new wiki page for every point release of SuSE AND one for each point release when installing from source **
[14:48:13] iamlindoro: Next we can have one for each point release of SuSe, for each install method, for each release of MythTV
[14:48:48] wagnerrp: suse users need hand-holding?
[14:49:16] wagnerrp: If its not in YAST, its cccccrrrrrap!
[14:49:21] iamlindoro: and apparently tens of thousands of pages to choose from
[14:49:34] iamlindoro: God forbid we have a page called "SuSE Install"
[14:51:15] wagnerrp: what is 'Dune: Alternative'?
[14:51:42] wagnerrp: oh, some fan re-cut
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[15:07:24] wagnerrp: oof... 'Theme is missing critical theme elements'
[15:10:50] Cardoe: wagnerrp: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/243450/
[15:10:53] Cardoe: Is that correct?
[15:11:08] wagnerrp: yeah
[15:11:49] Cardoe: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/243451/
[15:13:54] wagnerrp: could you run 'mythpython', and 'db = MythDB(); print db.gethostname()'
[15:13:58] wagnerrp: make sure its correct
[15:14:48] Cardoe: it is
[15:15:05] Cardoe: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/243453/
[15:15:11] Cardoe: that's just confirming
[15:16:39] Cardoe: oh wait I'm dumb
[15:16:48] wagnerrp: i cant think of a single reason why that wouldnt work
[15:16:54] Cardoe: btw
[15:17:01] wagnerrp: unless maybe youre running jamu as a different user
[15:17:05] wagnerrp: with a different config.xml
[15:17:11] Cardoe: wagnerrp: I get the same error as yesterday
[15:17:21] Cardoe: until I applied http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/25492/tr . . . ipts/jamu.py to -fixes
[15:18:49] wagnerrp: 25496 does the same exact thing as 25492, it just allows a fallback to the old way if the new way fails
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[15:19:46] wagnerrp: if 25496 fell through and used the old socket hostname, 25492 would outright fail
[15:19:50] olejl: this is one backend compiled from svn and one frontend installed with Mythbuntu. Has there been a change in how the Network Protocol is presented? http://pastebin.ca/1911710
[15:19:59] Cardoe: running 25496 and it fails
[15:20:09] Cardoe: applying that one chunk to jamu.py, makes it work
[15:20:28] wagnerrp: but that chunk shouldnt even apply
[15:20:38] wagnerrp: it should fail because of local edits
[15:21:32] Cardoe: only part that failed to apply was the top part with versioning
[15:22:04] wagnerrp: olejl: yes, after the 0.23.1 release, there is a new protocol version (hence the reason for the new minor release)
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[15:24:07] olejl: wagnerrp: ok thanks.
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[15:26:42] wagnerrp: Cardoe: only thing i can think of is that you didnt actually have a >=r25496 version of jamu
[15:28:37] Cardoe: I must have run it before make install finished
[15:28:59] Cardoe: I dunno. I'm being dumb
[15:29:16] Cardoe: my first issue was that I was on the wrong box
[15:30:18] Cardoe: wagnerrp: either way. I appreciate you fixing the issue so quickly.
[15:32:56] wagnerrp: np
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[16:31:13] wagnerrp: is it the libav* or FAAD decoder that causes slow playback in AAC?
[16:31:48] iamlindoro: I was under the impression that neither should be an issue any more, but believe it was building *with* libfaad
[16:32:01] iamlindoro: libfaad + 6 channel, I think
[16:32:25] iamlindoro: We may hopefully be able to drop libfaad support entirely for .24, so that will simplify matters
[16:33:51] wagnerrp: some guy on mythtvtalk complaining about slow audio playback on his BD rips
[16:34:07] justinh: thought the hdaudio merge solved that in trunk just after 0.23 was released
[16:34:15] janneg: not sure if we can get full LATM support into ffmpeg before 0.24
[16:34:16] wagnerrp: considering some snarkey reply about how that couldnt be his problem, since bluray doesnt support AAC audio
[16:34:39] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: I was composing a remark about exactly that :)
[16:35:01] wagnerrp: ill leave it to you then
[16:35:09] iamlindoro: Something to the effect of "Oh, just re-rip and don't transcode the audio and you will be fine!"  ;)
[16:35:16] iamlindoro: no, wasn't on mythtvtalk, was just going to remark to you
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[16:36:25] iamlindoro: janneg: Yeah, knew that was the one outstanding thing... oh well, .25 isn't too far off I guess
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[16:36:33] wagnerrp: although i /do/ have a number of dvd-rips suffering from that
[16:36:35] justinh: wagnerrp: replying to threads on there is exclusively your job now :P
[16:37:00] wagnerrp: mp4/h264/aac stuff from a couple years back for compatibility streaming to my PS3
[16:37:53] wagnerrp: of course hes running 0.22, revision 25392
[16:38:08] janneg: iamlindoro: latm demuxer is mostly finished, I'm preparing it atm for the first review round
[16:38:11] wagnerrp: i dont think theres been a single commit against 0.22 in 1500 revisions
[16:38:26] iamlindoro: janneg: Nice work!
[16:38:52] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: Think stuarta or nigel made a commit a month or so ago
[16:39:07] iamlindoro: I might be misremembering though
[16:39:07] janneg: but that's only 50% or less of the work needed for aac in latm in mpegts playback
[16:39:55] wagnerrp: yeah, youre right
[16:40:15] wagnerrp: seems its gotten the URL fix, some OSX UPNP fix, and the memleak fixes backported
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[17:31:33] sphery: iamlindoro: So, did you see kormoc, wagnerrp, and me discussing how broken those WD drives are?  :)
[17:31:41] iamlindoro: nope
[17:31:55] iamlindoro: closed->worksforme
[17:32:04] wagnerrp: last night, the 'advanced format' WD greens
[17:32:07] kormoc: I actually don't feel they're broken :P
[17:32:12] sphery: I only have 185 out of 373 files left to transfer of my 2TB WD Green so that I can repartition it properly (since it lies about the sector size)
[17:32:31] wagnerrp: im perfectly fine with how mine is functioning
[17:32:40] wagnerrp: of course, its not like i could change it if i werent
[17:33:21] sphery: yeah, and really, mine is working fine and I don't need the performance--but I'm going to fix it for the sake of correctness :)
[17:33:38] sphery: besides, I need 11% extra storage for bad sectors... ;)
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[17:33:57] ** kormoc laughs **
[17:35:12] sphery: iamlindoro: basically, since it tells the OS that it supports 512B sectors, fdisk'ing it started the partition at sector 63, so my sectors aren't aligned with the 4KiB physical sectors on disk, reducing performance. I'm going to repartition starting at sector 64.
[17:36:00] iamlindoro: sphery: I recall hearing about that a few months back, but don't have any of the new drives
[17:36:21] sphery: I thought you had a bunch of the 2TB ones?
[17:36:25] sphery: they're not all that way?
[17:36:37] iamlindoro: There are two model numbers
[17:36:42] iamlindoro: only one of which is still manufactured
[17:36:47] iamlindoro: I have none of the newer
[17:36:52] iamlindoro: since they don't break :P
[17:36:55] sphery: I am glad, however, to find that the 20-minute mkfs can be explained
[17:37:03] sphery: (as it should have been more like 2min, tops)
[17:37:11] kormoc: sphery, there's multiple advanced formats as well, 512e (what you have) and 4ke (claims to be 4k and can be changed down to 512) and 4k (just 4k sectors period)
[17:37:42] sphery: wow, next hard drive I buy, I'm going to hire a MythTV contractor to format for me
[17:38:28] sphery: then I can go back to him, "I'm only getting 75MiB/sec write speed on this drive. I think you did it wrong. Fix it."  :)
[17:38:42] kormoc: hehe
[17:39:04] iamlindoro: Wonder how many times we'll refer people to the contractors list when they ask for a feature before someone is willing to contract to pay for it
[17:39:15] iamlindoro: and then I wonder how many of those we will wait before they accept a reasonable price
[17:39:26] sphery: I'm wondering just who will sign up for it.
[17:39:33] iamlindoro: "discard frontend, adopt XBMC – $20"
[17:39:48] sphery: I'm picky about the real-work jobs I take, so for "hobby" jobs...
[17:40:07] iamlindoro: the problem with this public list is that nobody is vetted
[17:40:17] iamlindoro: So the quality of the work will range from painful to good
[17:40:23] kormoc: indeed
[17:40:44] sphery: iamlindoro: heh... How about "Remove XvMC and make OpenGL so much better than Xv that even the cheapskates decide it's worth $30 to upgrade. $20"
[17:41:03] iamlindoro: Perhaps we should append "(MythTV Developer)" to our nicknames on the group
[17:41:25] sphery: yeah, I just hope he has sufficient disclaimers in place to say that all disputes/contracts/... are between the "contractor" and "client"
[17:41:32] kormoc: isn't that global? meaning every other group I'm in will see it too?
[17:41:40] ** kormoc nudges xris **
[17:41:45] iamlindoro: think it's per-membership
[17:41:47] sphery: and that MythTV and MythTV devs are not responsible for <whatever>
[17:41:49] kormoc: huh
[17:41:57] wagnerrp: wow, 27 members
[17:42:02] iamlindoro: kormoc: confirmed, it's per-membership
[17:42:03] sphery: I probably should actually look at it to see
[17:42:08] kormoc: cool
[17:42:10] iamlindoro: Just checked my other groups, they each have discrete nicknames
[17:42:43] sphery: Since I don't trust Google, I'm setting up a new one on Yahoo Groups.  ;)
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[17:43:41] kormoc: I'm gonna set up one on groups.excite and charge 10% less then you guys!
[17:43:50] sphery: heh
[17:43:54] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: would probably be better if xris set up separate membership types
[17:43:54] cipher42: does the icore 7 decode hdpvr?
[17:44:08] iamlindoro: I am going to take all kormoc's work for free and put it on alt.binaries.mythtv.kormoc
[17:44:10] wagnerrp: no, the core i7 runs x86 machine code
[17:44:16] kormoc: oh noes!
[17:45:17] sphery: Heh, seems there's one post, so far. "Convert MythWeb to Python since the dev doesn't get FLOSS. $4.17"
[17:45:24] ** kormoc laughs **
[17:45:27] iamlindoro: $42.42
[17:45:55] wagnerrp: !trout sphery made-me-look
[17:45:55] ** MythLogBot slaps sphery with a made-me-look trout on behalf of wagnerrp... **
[17:46:01] sphery: heh
[17:46:20] iamlindoro: !trout Erik_Hovland commit your changes already
[17:46:20] ** MythLogBot slaps Erik_Hovland with a commit your changes already trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **
[17:46:37] cipher42: intell claims hd decoding is built into the processor
[17:46:53] sphery: Should have done a better joke-of-a-price... $4.01 or something (for the HTTP humor)
[17:46:59] wagnerrp: cipher42: intel lies
[17:47:10] ** MythLogBot slaps mythlogbot with a stop hitting yourself trout on behalf of kormoc... **
[17:47:20] cipher42: what about intell HD integrated graphics card?
[17:47:38] wagnerrp: cipher42: some of the i3s and i5s do come with a graphics unit, and those do have hardware h264 decompression
[17:47:42] iamlindoro: If you want GPU hardware decode, purchase a modern nVidia card
[17:48:06] iamlindoro: attempting to do so on Intel ATM will be an exercise in pain if not outright failure
[17:48:07] wagnerrp: however has iamlindoro indicates, only nvidia vdpau is currently supported for hardware offloading
[17:48:09] cipher42: yea i know but i have to order from dell for work
[17:48:14] cipher42: and it's all intell HD
[17:48:22] cipher42: ah ok
[17:48:25] cipher42: thanks for the info
[17:48:33] kormoc: intel does not claim the processor has hardware HD decoding in it
[17:48:44] cipher42: yes it does
[17:48:52] cipher42: want me to find info on it?
[17:48:56] wagnerrp: no, only the lower end units that have a GPU
[17:49:09] kormoc: yes, I want to see this claim that it's in the processor and not in the GPU
[17:49:10] wagnerrp: i doubt you can find anything that says the i7s do hardware decompression of video
[17:49:53] sphery: So, I don't know if I can sign up for that group. I have never given Google my real address, so my Google account sends all the e-mail to my unused gmail account...
[17:50:03] cipher42: you guyz are almost always right but hold on
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[17:50:29] cipher42: ok so it's a "Direct Media Interface,
[17:50:29] cipher42: Integrated GPU"
[17:50:42] cipher42: for Arrandale icore 7
[17:50:45] justinh: anyway it doesn't matter you can't use it in mythtv yet
[17:50:46] cipher42: i swear tho
[17:50:48] cipher42: i keep looking
[17:51:01] cipher42: well that's what i wanted to know
[17:51:10] wagnerrp: there are some i7s that use the DMI interface rather than the normal QPI one, however none come with integrated graphics
[17:51:10] justinh: and it's likely more than one release away, so go with nvidia if you want it NOW
[17:51:11] sphery: cipher42: so, sounds like they're saying the integrated GPU has video decode support
[17:51:18] iamlindoro: Dell will sell you an nVidia card
[17:51:21] sphery: (even though MythTV lacks support for it.)
[17:51:22] iamlindoro: http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen& . . . ;x=0&y=0
[17:51:42] iamlindoro: They'll even build into your desktop and/or laptop
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[17:52:02] cipher42: Intel® G41 and G43 Express Chipsets provide partial H.264 decode hardware
[17:52:10] iamlindoro: *
[17:52:13] iamlindoro: * In Windows
[17:52:21] kormoc: chipsets with integrated gpu's
[17:52:27] iamlindoro: And those chipsets include the GPU, which is where the work is done
[17:52:28] kormoc: again, not the processor
[17:52:34] cipher42: aahhh ok
[17:52:36] cipher42: sorry about that
[17:53:06] sphery: but, the answer you want, anyway, is a(n appropriately-chosen) $30 nvidia video card
[17:54:04] sphery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo . . . 28HD.29_GPUs with appropriate VDPAU feature set
[17:54:11] wagnerrp: seems there are some dual-core mobile i7s with onboard graphics
[17:54:16] wagnerrp: why, i have no idea
[17:54:18] sphery: (see below for info on feature sets)
[17:54:22] wagnerrp: bastardization of the name IMHO
[17:54:40] sphery: heh, like their marketing names mean anything, anymore
[17:54:57] wagnerrp: some kind of ploy by intel to confuse and immolate their customers
[17:55:06] sphery: they make processor names so you /can't/ figure out what the specs are without a lookup table
[17:55:27] sphery: At last count, the Intel-processor-name-decoder rainbow tables were 2x the size of the GSM rainbow tables.
[17:56:09] cipher42: i like amd personally, but as laptops go, if you want nvidia, you must buy intel...
[17:56:19] cipher42: freakin hate that
[17:56:47] sphery: why a laptop for MythTV?
[17:57:02] sphery: or is this just for a random laptop that you'll sometimes use as a remote frontend with MythTV?
[17:57:31] wagnerrp: why worry about hardware acceleration anyway?
[17:57:55] sphery: because hardware acceleration is A Good Thing(TM)
[17:57:59] wagnerrp: anything core-i, maybe 2.3GHz or better should be able to decode HDPVR content
[17:58:14] sphery: it's always better to let hardware decode something than software
[17:58:25] wagnerrp: definitely if the laptops do that turbo-boost
[17:58:33] sphery: that's why I have a PKZip accelerator on my system
[17:58:34] iamlindoro: sphery: for sure! Chuck those bits into the black box and WATCH THE MAGIC HAPPEN!
[17:58:41] sphery: iamlindoro: exactly
[17:59:39] sphery: after all, hardware is software that can never be changed once written, so it's always better to have the most complex parts of the computer (which decode random video that's improperly encoded in different ways all around the world) in hardware.
[17:59:40] wagnerrp: the only worth of hardware acceleration would be for power consumption
[17:59:44] cipher42: i work in linux, but yea i also use it as a frontend
[18:00:04] ** wagnerrp introduces sphery to the wonders of FPGAs **
[18:00:07] cipher42: would be a portable tv for me
[18:00:28] sphery: oh, and don't tell me that hardware decode uses software in the shaders, because then my idea of "pure hardware decoding" would be shattered
[18:01:32] wagnerrp: you know, that makes me wonder whether they actually have hardware for Xv, or if its just something implemented through shader code
[18:02:15] sphery: don't know
[18:02:32] sphery: I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a majority of functions are a combination of hardware + shaders, anymore
[18:02:53] sphery: though easy stuff like Xv could likely be done with pure shaders
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[18:04:01] henkpoley: I believe MythTV has the possibility to use one digital tuner as multiple tuners, as long as you select the same transport. Anybody knows how to set that up?
[18:04:18] sphery: cipher42: FWIW, I wasn't saying that VDPAU is bad... Just making a joke about how hardware decode is often seen as "the right way" versus just an option.
[18:04:25] wagnerrp: when you define the card, tell it to have multiple virtual tuners
[18:05:18] sphery: henkpoley: in mythtv-setup, Capture Cards, Advanced Options or something like that (2nd page), set number of tuners to > 1. Note that doing so must be done when you initially configure your capture cards or you won't get proper multirec usage
[18:05:19] cipher42: i mean i understand that, just allways go for hardware decode personally
[18:05:27] cipher42: that way my cpu is free to actually work
[18:05:33] henkpoley: sweet, so it's just mythtv-setup, I'll have a look in 20 minutes or so. Currently recording
[18:05:36] sphery: henkpoley: therefore, do the capture card portion of http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034
[18:05:45] sphery: i.e. you need to redo all your capture cards.
[18:05:51] kormoc: if decoding 1080i h264 isn't work, I don't know what is
[18:06:15] kormoc: I know it takes me like a year and a few rems of paper to do it by hand
[18:06:22] sphery: kormoc: for most users, CPU work = waiting for user input, right?
[18:06:40] henkpoley: sphery: I have only one capture card, but *really* want to keep the tuning info around. It's hard enough to get it right with ziggo.nl
[18:06:41] kormoc: sphery, ooh! That's right, the idle process! so important!
[18:06:44] sphery: heh, by hand
[18:06:49] cipher42: wha?
[18:07:10] cipher42: when this computer decodes mpeg4 i basically can't do anything else
[18:07:12] wagnerrp: cipher42: hes saying that modern CPUs are ridiculously overpowered for most tasks
[18:07:20] cipher42: because all the cpu is used up
[18:07:23] sphery: henkpoley: a) that won't affect your "tuning info" and b) if you only have one capture card, you can just enable multiple tuners on it without affecting tuner usage order
[18:07:24] kormoc: mpeg4 != h264
[18:07:35] wagnerrp: cipher42: is it a multi-core CPU?
[18:07:41] cipher42: yea
[18:07:48] wagnerrp: is it HDPVR output?
[18:07:48] cipher42: intel crap dual core
[18:07:52] cipher42: yep
[18:07:58] cipher42: 720
[18:08:02] wagnerrp: then youve got a whole other core free to do whatever you please
[18:08:08] henkpoley: sphery: thank you, I meant channel and transport tuples of course
[18:08:24] cipher42: i'm using an old ssd which i think has something to do with it
[18:08:29] kormoc: my core2duo decodes 720p hdpvr output at ~ 60% of one core
[18:08:36] sphery: oh, dvb-s stuff... yeah, the disecq tree might be affected
[18:08:38] wagnerrp: is the video stored on your SSD?
[18:08:40] cipher42: many processes = lag
[18:08:45] cipher42: no
[18:08:48] kormoc: drive won't matter
[18:08:55] cipher42: if i try to do a bunch of things at once it stutters
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[18:08:56] wagnerrp: then mythtv playback isnt touching your SSD
[18:09:08] kormoc: sounds like a system misconfiguration to me
[18:09:10] ** kormoc shrugs **
[18:09:17] cipher42: old ssd's are like that
[18:09:20] henkpoley: btw, a Mac Mini G4 1.42GHz (Early 2005) is good as an SD-only frontend over WiFi :-)
[18:09:27] wagnerrp: no, computers are like that
[18:09:31] kormoc: now granted, 1080i and my little laptop are not friends
[18:09:44] kormoc: why would a ssd that the data is never touching kill your processor's decoding ability?
[18:09:48] wagnerrp: if you run enough tasks that you saturate the CPU, something is going to slow down
[18:09:53] kormoc: *procesor's processing
[18:10:16] wagnerrp: it just happens that video decoding is the only one that requires realtime performance, and so the only one you notice suffering
[18:10:18] cipher42: jesus... it's not just that's running
[18:10:30] cipher42: like when i try to read a bunch of things on the ssd for example
[18:10:41] cipher42: i'm a software developer so i have a ton of code open at once with intellij
[18:10:51] wagnerrp: then whatever youre doing that is reading off the SSD is chewing up cycles
[18:10:52] cipher42: which reads a ton of stuff off ur hdd
[18:11:00] cipher42: no crap
[18:11:07] wagnerrp: enough CPU cycles that your playback is suffering
[18:11:15] wagnerrp: it has nothing to do with reading off the SSD
[18:11:51] henkpoley: You could instrument your kernel and use one of those newfangled '*top' programs that show you realtime scheduling performance
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[18:12:14] wagnerrp: and everything to do with something being spinlocked waiting for a response from that SSD, rather than giving up the CPU for other tasks
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[18:12:26] sphery: ah, intellij... I think we now know where all your processor cycles are going
[18:12:55] wagnerrp: but but... java is high performance
[18:13:17] justinh: java.. making computers suck since 199whatever
[18:13:36] wagnerrp: 5
[18:13:50] justinh: but but.. muhh, java doesn't suck, it's bad programming. ok.. yeah right then. so much programming is awful
[18:14:21] justinh: the viewer software the company I work for ships with their DVRs is easily THE worst java app I've ever encountered
[18:14:36] henkpoley: btw: http://www.latencytop.org/
[18:15:42] wagnerrp: why is it written in java?
[18:15:57] justinh: supposed to be so it'll be cross platform
[18:16:04] justinh: but it won't run on Mac or linux
[18:16:33] wagnerrp: oh, PC-based viewer
[18:16:54] justinh: well, the DVR's own gui is web-based with javascript
[18:16:59] henkpoley: For Windows latency (rudimentary): http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
[18:17:14] wagnerrp: henkpoley: he left long ago
[18:17:17] justinh: and performs slightly better than the pc app, but it's not a patch on the old stuff we made
[18:17:30] henkpoley: Awww.. still good tools
[18:17:55] henkpoley: Though in case of Windows, Win7 has some better ones built in I believe ;-)
[18:19:18] sphery: justinh: ah, they did their GUI the way we should have
[18:19:25] sphery: using HTML and javascript...
[18:19:33] sphery: (joke)
[18:19:50] justinh: yeah. unlike the old machines where you pressed a key & saw immediate response the new stuff makes you wait. and wait
[18:19:58] sphery: nice...
[18:20:28] wagnerrp: GUIs: slowing down nice terminal applications for 25 years
[18:20:30] sphery: and if someone wanted to make a Flash-based background with animated flames, could they?
[18:20:38] sphery: because that's the type of theme people would pay money for
[18:20:44] wagnerrp: and lens flare, dont forget the lens flare
[18:20:50] sphery: heh
[18:21:07] kormoc: it's visual communication when you delete a recording and it bursts into flames!
[18:21:38] henkpoley: Just use chrome beta as renderer and use a WebGL shader to add flare ;-)
[18:22:03] sphery: kormoc: oh, like windows you close in Compiz!
[18:24:51] kormoc: indeed! It's just like real life!
[18:25:35] justinh: never saw the point of lens flare in games
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[18:27:02] kormoc: it's more like a movie/tv show with lens flare!
[18:29:06] justinh: and less like real life (tm) :)
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[18:33:32] sphery: heh
[18:33:34] henkpoley: btw, MythFrontend on Mac has this nice "..and shutdown" option, does anybody know how to let it actually do anything? I don't suppose there are that any ways to 'halt' a Mac via unix or AppleScript API
[18:34:03] kormoc: sudo shutdown -h now
[18:34:07] sphery: sudo poweroff ?
[18:34:11] sphery: or that'
[18:34:24] kormoc: no poweroff in os x
[18:34:44] henkpoley: More where you would need to enter that (probably just the database), since there is not MythWelcome to run with --setup
[18:34:54] sphery: should have gone with the more generic, then
[18:35:05] sphery: henkpoley: it's in the settings GUI
[18:35:17] kormoc: you'd still have to setup sudo to be passwordless for that user for that command
[18:36:02] sphery: Halt command in in Utilities/Setup|Setup|General
[18:36:28] henkpoley: That used to be in mythwelcome (/me is mythtv old fart)
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[18:38:41] sphery: actually, it's always been where it's at
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[18:38:47] sphery: mythwelcome has a different, but similar setting
[18:39:18] sphery: and since MythTV has way too many settings, it's extremely easy to lose track of them
[18:39:32] sphery: but, hey, it's just a setting
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[18:41:21] henkpoley: Yeah. Would be better for some stuff to just enforce a helper script be available on your distro, instead of the myrad of often useless settings for your specific config.
[18:44:10] sphery: my main complaint about the settings is that we literally have so many of them that even long-time MythTV users can't find what they're looking for in the GUI
[18:45:00] sphery: So a lot of them do bad things--like edit the database (either directly or through MythWeb's "settings" page--which, just like direct DB editing--has no bounds checking or data integrity checks)
[18:45:19] kormoc: yeah, we should remove that... and by we I mean me
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[18:45:46] sphery: kormoc: well, having it there isn't bad--and once we do settings right, it will be great to have them available in MythWeb
[18:45:59] henkpoley: sphery: I do those edits a lot, it's insanity to edit your channels by hand via the guy
[18:46:03] henkpoley: gui..
[18:46:15] sphery: more than anything, I don't like that users just assume that from a name they can figure out what values are appropriate
[18:46:19] henkpoley: A lot = once to trice per year
[18:46:23] kormoc: sure, but I don't anyone who uses the settings editor in mythweb who doesn't break it
[18:46:31] sphery: heh, true
[18:46:34] kormoc: *don't know anyone
[18:46:50] kormoc: channels != settings
[18:47:13] sphery: I challenge /anyone/ to guess the legal values--and their meanings--for the setting NoPromptOnExit
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[18:47:18] henkpoley: Oh I tweaked settings too from time to time, more stuff like the shutdown strings
[18:47:19] henkpoley: ]
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[18:48:01] sphery: as presented in the DB, value=NoPromptOnExit, data = 1
[18:48:12] sphery: so, you might think, "oh, it's a boolean, so the only other value is 0"
[18:48:14] sphery: so far so good.
[18:48:20] sphery: now guess what true and false do?
[18:48:32] kormoc: the same thing!
[18:48:39] sphery: nope...
[18:48:57] henkpoley: Fun, MythFrontend on my Mac just crashes with LiveTV now I've set my card to have multiple virtual tuners, and LiveTV running on my backend too.
[18:49:03] kormoc: I guess true means it just exits and false prompts?
[18:49:20] sphery: so, let's look at the GUI: "Confirm Exit: When enabled, MythTV will prompt for confirmation when you press the System Exit key."
[18:49:25] sphery: no think about that
[18:49:27] sphery: now
[18:49:40] kormoc: ha
[18:49:46] sphery: we need /a lot/ more settings like that one
[18:50:50] sphery: NoPromptOnExit ftw! Because I hate it when I accidentally hit Exit at the Main Menu and it just exits--I'd prefer it ask me if I want it to exit before doing so.
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[18:51:15] raydj: hi everyone
[18:51:18] kormoc: heh
[18:51:22] sphery: hi
[18:51:37] kormoc: I have the pc power button mapped to killall -9 mythfrontend for those times when I really want it to die
[18:51:51] kormoc: I'm serious about my exiting!
[18:52:00] sphery: heh
[18:52:31] sphery: 214/373 files transferred... 158 left
[18:52:36] raydj: quick and probably silly question which I haven't been able to figure out yet... having a master backend/frontend and a couple of remote frontends... should I export by NFS the directories where the pictures and so are in the master backend box, and mount them on the remote frontends? or is there a better way?
[18:53:06] sphery: raydj: if you mean the MythGallery pictures, that's the only way with current MythTV
[18:53:29] sphery: work is being done to make MythGallery use Storage Groups, like TV and MythVideo can
[18:53:31] raydj: no, I mean the images related to videos
[18:53:40] sphery: oh, you mean MythVideo fanart, etc...
[18:53:44] raydj: yep
[18:53:56] sphery: well, that's a whole other question
[18:54:20] raydj: actually it's the same with more info :)
[18:54:20] henkpoley: The crash didn't even trigger CrashReporter hmm..
[18:55:31] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo has far more information about it than me
[18:56:19] henkpoley: Funny, when I start LiveTV on my Macbook, and then on the backend PC it does work concurrently
[18:56:22] wagnerrp: raydj: are you using storage groups?
[18:56:34] raydj: still more info: I've already setup NFS exports and mounts so in all machines /mythtv/XXXX points to a directory with the videos of XXXXXX machine, be it local or remote
[18:56:38] henkpoley: If I then stop LiveTV on the mac, and start it again there, poof!
[18:56:43] raydj: well, I'll give it another try
[18:56:48] wagnerrp: raydj: are you using storage groups?
[18:56:52] sphery: You may think, "Well, of course a page on MythVideo has far more information about MythVideo storage groups and local directories than it has about some guy named sphery." If so, you see my point.
[18:57:17] raydj: that's the thing wagnerrp, I can't make the whole picture of storage groups from the wiki
[18:57:23] sphery: that said, the page also has far more information on MythVideo SG's and local directories than I have on MythVideo SG's and local directories.
[18:57:33] raydj: I mean, information is not knowledge
[18:57:43] wagnerrp: raydj: all of your content is on a machine running a mythbackend?
[18:58:09] sphery: raydj: read that page... it has a whole section devoted to the pros and cons of SGs versus local
[18:58:11] kormoc: Yerg! We have a philosophy major here!
[18:59:03] raydj: ok, this is what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna read that page for nth time and try and figure it out... then ask again if failing miserably :)
[18:59:08] sphery: kormoc: it's just one of those days
[18:59:17] kormoc: indeed
[18:59:35] wagnerrp: raydj: simply put, storage groups are a mechanism for making backend storage available for streaming and indexing by the frontend
[18:59:50] wagnerrp: anything you put in a storage group on a backend will be available to any connected frontend
[19:00:10] sphery: though some parts of MythTV may not use it
[19:00:12] wagnerrp: so if you have your videos and artwork on your backend, and you define their paths in their respective storage groups
[19:00:16] wagnerrp: then youre done
[19:00:25] wagnerrp: mythvideo on each frontend will instantly know how to access that content
[19:00:28] sphery: isn't there a disclaimer for MythTV Watch Recordings fanart?
[19:00:33] kormoc: This assume you are using a recent version of myth
[19:01:08] wagnerrp: with watch recordings fanart, the same rules still apply
[19:01:21] sphery: I thought the search was only done using local files
[19:01:32] wagnerrp: except it does an assumed search on what the file is named, and there is no automated grabber
[19:01:32] iamlindoro: nope
[19:01:45] sphery: hmmm
[19:01:45] iamlindoro: sphery: Local or SG content
[19:01:52] sphery: even in 0.23?
[19:01:54] wagnerrp: sphery: the only automated grabber is jamu, and jamu only works locally
[19:01:57] iamlindoro: yes, since the very beginning
[19:02:10] wagnerrp: jamu can recognize the paths used by storage groups
[19:02:10] iamlindoro: the image hunt hasn't changed since being committed
[19:02:18] sphery: ok, so I'm misremembering some post I half read
[19:02:25] wagnerrp: but it will not access the content over storage groups, it uses direct file access for everything
[19:02:25] sphery: (from iamlindoro, even)
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[19:05:15] raydj: so... if I set up say /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart in the master backend box (aeryn), and then set /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart as the coverart folder in a desktop machine, I don't even need /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart to exist in the desktop machine, it's automagically tranfered over the mythtv connection, so to say. Is that it?
[19:05:57] iamlindoro: No
[19:06:09] wagnerrp: raydj: no, the storage group stuff is all done in mythtv-setup
[19:06:13] iamlindoro: You add the directories to be used for the artwork and videos on the backend, in mythtv-setup
[19:06:14] raydj: see xD what am I getting wrong?
[19:06:21] iamlindoro: You change *no* settings on frontends
[19:06:23] wagnerrp: if you use the settings in mythfrontend, it will not work that way
[19:06:52] raydj: so I leave those configurations empty in the frontend?
[19:06:54] wagnerrp: and you /only/ need to do it on machines that run a backend and house your video and artwork
[19:06:59] wagnerrp: correct
[19:06:59] iamlindoro: Sort of like in the step by step directions
[19:07:09] iamlindoro: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvideo#Setting_ . . . orage_Groups
[19:07:09] wagnerrp: if you are using storage groups, you dont touch anything in the frontend
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[19:07:47] raydj: it's not clear from step 3 that you need to have those fields clear
[19:07:57] wagnerrp: you were never supposed to have set them
[19:08:05] wagnerrp: the instructions expect youre starting from scratch
[19:08:08] iamlindoro: raydj: You don't need to
[19:08:21] iamlindoro: It specifically says that.
[19:08:40] raydj: where?
[19:08:53] iamlindoro: "Optional Step:"
[19:09:01] iamlindoro: "If you would like to use a combination of Storage Group and locally hosted video..."
[19:09:03] iamlindoro: *if*
[19:09:07] raydj: ok
[19:09:22] raydj: and what if I don't, and already have set up dirs in the frontend?
[19:09:37] wagnerrp: then change or blank them
[19:09:45] iamlindoro: Then you should follow the instructions, and rescan
[19:10:07] wagnerrp: to anything that is not the same as where the storage group points to
[19:10:51] wagnerrp: note that storage groups being a backend setting, you should restart the backend after changing them
[19:11:26] raydj: what's more, it specifically says "If the local video setting and the Storage Group setting point at the same path, MythVideo will prefer the Storage Group path and ignore the local one."
[19:11:37] iamlindoro: yes. So?
[19:11:52] iamlindoro: None of that conflicts with what we are telling you
[19:13:09] raydj: it's not that it conflicts
[19:13:33] raydj: it could be worded another way
[19:13:46] raydj: but anyway, thanks for the help, I'm gonna set it up
[19:14:07] iamlindoro: I'm not sure how much simpler that sentence could be
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[19:15:37] raydj: "Keep those fields clear if you want to use the master backend's Storage Groups exclusively" comes to mind
[19:15:49] iamlindoro: Except that isn't true
[19:15:58] iamlindoro: You don't need them to be clear
[19:16:29] iamlindoro: They can be populated with another path (which is what the rest of the step describes) or point at the same path and be ignored (which is what that sentence says)
[19:17:04] wagnerrp: for the purposes of using videos that cannot be accessed over storage groups
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[19:20:12] raydj: iamlindoro, I said exactly the same thing above and you told me I was wrong (and I do realize that I sound like the stereotypical noob, but I'm not)
[19:20:13] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: just a thought, if dvd-over-sg wont be in for 0.24, maybe pull the file location from the backend, and try to open the ISO/VIDEO_TS at that location on the local file system
[19:20:44] iamlindoro: raydj: When did you say even remotely the same thing?
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[19:21:04] wagnerrp: let people use SGs for all content, but just require NFS mounts at those locations if they want to use ISOs
[19:21:18] wagnerrp: pop up a warning if it cannot be found
[19:22:40] raydj: "so... if I set up say /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart in the master backend box (aeryn), and then set /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart as the coverart folder in a desktop machine, I don't even need /mythtv/aeryn/Coverart to exist in the desktop machine, it's automagically tranfered over the mythtv connection, so to say. Is that it?"
[19:22:48] iamlindoro: raydj: And that's still incorrect
[19:23:05] raydj: would it work as expected?
[19:23:31] wagnerrp: the settings are not transferred, mythvideo will pull the content through the backend, with whatever settings the backend is using
[19:23:38] iamlindoro: As you don't need to set the frontend setting, specifically because they will be ignored, and it costs extra CPU time
[19:23:45] iamlindoro: It would function, it would not function properly
[19:24:37] iamlindoro: We were also clarifying that you don't set the setting on the frontend on the backend, you set it in mythtv-setup
[19:25:48] henkpoley: Do you need to have the LiveTV ringbuffer in a Storage Group when you use virtual tuners ?
[19:26:19] iamlindoro: henkpoley: we do not use a ringbuffer-- Think you mean does the LiveTV storage group need directories assigned to it?
[19:26:24] justinh: there's no ringbuffer anymore
[19:26:28] iamlindoro: If so, no, all recordings SGs fall back to "Default"
[19:26:31] iamlindoro: which must exist
[19:26:55] henkpoley: iamlindoro: yes, I mean: do I need to define a LiveTV storage group
[19:27:07] iamlindoro: henkpoley: No-- Will fall through to Default
[19:27:09] henkpoley: Default exists yes
[19:27:11] wagnerrp: only if you want a special storage location for LiveTV content
[19:27:17] iamlindoro: none of the SG setup changes when using multirec
[19:27:58] henkpoley: My logs don't really show any reason why my frontend is dissappearing on Mac, it's just happily churning out messages and then it's gone.
[19:28:07] henkpoley: So just grasping straws
[19:28:23] justinh: sounds like you need a backtrace
[19:28:45] justinh: and for that you need mythfrontend built with debugging enabled.. and to run mythfrontend under gdb
[19:28:56] henkpoley: Macs auto backtrace via CrashReporter
[19:29:17] henkpoley: Apparently myth does something so it's only stored, not shown via the normal os x GUI
[19:29:29] henkpoley: I'll look the backtrace up now
[19:29:48] wagnerrp: ?
[19:30:02] wagnerrp: so what is stored rather than displayed?
[19:30:21] henkpoley: It's crashing in RingBuffer::ReadFromBuf(void*, int, bool) + 25
[19:30:48] henkpoley: wagnerrp: just like under modern Gnome or Windows you get a popup with the backtrace on OS X
[19:31:08] henkpoley: For mythfrontend somehow it doesn't pop up, but it still stores it in the crashreporter directory on my mac
[19:31:47] iamlindoro: henkpoley: .23 or trunk?
[19:32:12] henkpoley: .23 the revision before the protocol version change
[19:32:15] justinh: ruh? backend just fell over & came back itself
[19:32:19] justinh: I'm not using monit
[19:32:50] wagnerrp: ubuntu?
[19:33:11] iamlindoro: yeah, sounds like upstart
[19:33:12] justinh: yup
[19:33:18] iamlindoro: henkpoley: Where are you getting the +25 bit?
[19:33:23] iamlindoro: Can I see the error in context?
[19:33:28] justinh: looks like a restart too. inprogress recordings were restarted
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[19:34:42] justinh: ouch! 2010-07–30 20:30:04.632 DVBRec(1:/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0) Error: Stream handler died unexpectedly.
[19:34:46] justinh: *** glibc detected *** /usr/local/bin/mythbackend: malloc(): memory corruption: 0x08e8c5a1 ***
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[19:36:37] wagnerrp: failing hardware?
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[19:37:14] justinh: hope not
[19:38:07] justinh: there's a backtrace of sorts. no idea if it's any use
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[19:41:53] justinh: http://pastebin.com/fMwywv9J
[19:42:14] justinh: weird though – doesn't seem to be anything in the log about the backend restarting
[19:42:42] justinh: so er.. upstart bounces daemons which fall over all by itself? DO NOT WANT
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[19:43:14] justinh: if stuff falls over I want to know about it so I can look into WHY, not some frickin ubuntu user who likes to paint over the cracks
[19:43:17] iamlindoro: justinh: Pretty sure you can set that behavior in the upstart script
[19:43:31] justinh: I'll take a peek
[19:44:08] ** justinh comments out 'respawn' **
[19:45:18] AndyCap: justinh: so why are you a ubuntu user? :P
[19:45:55] justinh: I often ask myself the same thing
[19:46:13] dustybin: i often wonder too..
[19:46:19] justinh: oh shut up
[19:46:28] ** dustybin goes back into silent mode **
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[19:46:36] skd5aner: kormoc: ping
[19:47:28] justinh: so is that backtrace any use or no? didn't build myth with debugging enabled so I assume not
[19:47:30] wagnerrp: emacs???
[19:47:50] wagnerrp: that thing does do everything
[19:48:24] justinh: oh it's got a DVR plugin now? cool I can use that instead
[19:48:28] justinh: :P
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[19:50:14] justinh: and why do I have a feeling – since the nvidia driver is mentioned in there – that this might have something to do with applying a fix I didn't understand to make the nvidia driver work on my box – i.e. add an option to grub regarding vmalloc stuff
[19:51:39] AndyCap: it's Ctrl-X-Meta-Pedal-mythmode
[19:52:44] sphery: justinh: IMHO, a better fix is to disable the nvidia framebuffer/nouveau framebuffer/kms
[19:53:02] sphery: then get rid of the vmalloc stuff in the kernel boot line
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[19:53:53] justinh: it's essentially only got A card in it to drive the monitor, that's all. major waste of a 9400 card
[19:54:19] justinh: stuff it, I'll take the vmalloc line out, update grub tomorrow & don't sweat over the driver not working
[19:54:44] justinh: if it's got anything to do with these 0 bytes recordings & backend failings I'll be happy to be rid
[19:54:53] justinh: don't see how it could have though
[19:55:16] henkpoley: MythFrontend also seems to crash in `NuppelVideoPlayer::OpenFile(bool, unsigned int, bool)`
[19:55:33] Beirdo: home with a migraine. wonderful way to spend sysadmin day
[19:56:02] sphery: justinh: if you get rid of the framebuffer, you won't need the vmalloc and the X driver will work perfectly
[19:56:15] henkpoley: iamlindoro: the +25 is line numbers afaik
[19:56:16] sphery: (and the standard text-mode console driver, if that's what you want)
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[19:56:31] iamlindoro: henkpoley: Need to see actual output, not just interpretation :)
[19:56:32] sphery: you just don't get your penguin on boot
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[19:56:48] justinh: and I'll do without the stinking boot splash too
[19:56:49] Beirdo: and the patch in #3580 needs a lot of work, it seems
[19:56:55] justinh: I want to SEE the boot process on my backend
[19:57:02] Beirdo: it caused my TV to reboot
[19:57:33] sphery: Beirdo: nice...
[19:57:48] sphery: too bad TVs don't have a BSOD
[19:57:55] justinh: hmm so how to disable the fb crap.. time for google goggles
[19:58:17] sphery: justinh: if you're using the standard kernel one, blacklist nvidiafb
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[19:58:34] sphery: I'm guessing, though, with *buntu, you're using nouveau, so you'd need to find its module name
[19:58:40] justinh: hrm
[19:58:57] sphery: then again, if they're doing kms, it might be built in to the kernel
[19:59:07] henkpoley: iamlindoro: http://mythtv.pastebin.com/vS6EcqHh http://mythtv.pastebin.com/DFHYFETZ http://mythtv.pastebin.com/z944AjqH
[19:59:08] sphery: in which case, you'd have to pass the option to disable kms to the kernel
[19:59:29] justinh: kms? hmmm splodey head
[19:59:50] sphery: see /usr/src/linux-`uname -r`/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt
[20:00:00] iamlindoro: !trout Mac_OS-X awful backtraces
[20:00:00] ** MythLogBot slaps Mac_OS-X with a awful backtraces trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **
[20:00:05] sphery: Kernel Mode Switching--i.e. instead of a user-level program setting the video mode, the kernel does it
[20:00:10] justinh: ah
[20:00:23] sphery: something about nomodeset...
[20:00:33] justinh: my hatred for ubuntu just deepened
[20:00:34] sphery: (that's from memory, so check the docs)
[20:01:12] henkpoley: iamlindoro: tell me what you want to see extra, I could attach GDM myself and may get it in a format that you like
[20:01:26] justinh: oh funny thing happened at work today. the engineers working on a PoE powered camera said they have to be careful about current limiting or the product could turn into GDIAFOIP
[20:01:52] sphery: henkpoley: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Debugging would be ideal
[20:02:02] justinh: so why is the *default* fricking setting something which doesn't actually work properly hmm? :-O
[20:02:12] justinh: oh yeah *buntu
[20:02:21] sphery: justinh: because how else can you get a fancy purple background while booting?
[20:03:01] justinh: must be built in. can't find any module relating to it. lsmod |grep nv just shows the nvidia binary
[20:03:11] henkpoley: sphery: in 12 hours I'll be going to a scouts camp, there's also some sleep in there, no way to get those backtraces now unless there's some prebuilt image with those extra stuff built-in
[20:03:28] iamlindoro: henkpoley: the NVP thing sounds a lot like something that was allegedly fixed, since that like has to do with probebuffersiz3
[20:03:29] sphery: henkpoley: see the "Debugging package-based installs" part :)
[20:03:51] sphery: or just update to latest -fixes and see if it's fixed? :)
[20:04:00] henkpoley: There's nothing for mac os x on there
[20:04:06] sphery: (In other words, trusting iamlindoro may save you much time.)
[20:04:12] iamlindoro: Whoops, actually
[20:04:12] iamlindoro: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/8179
[20:04:14] iamlindoro: still open
[20:04:16] sphery: ah, yeah, for Mac OS, I don't know
[20:04:20] henkpoley: My ubuntu frontend does not have the problem, and probably works locally, not network based
[20:04:34] justinh: damn so much you don't have to reboot for.. except kernel options. heh
[20:04:39] iamlindoro: hmm... looks like the fix might only be in trunk
[20:04:51] iamlindoro: henkpoley: you can try applying: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/24618
[20:04:58] wagnerrp: justinh: thats only because youre not paying an arm and a leg
[20:05:02] iamlindoro: and rebuilding your source (may need hand application)
[20:05:22] wagnerrp: there are companies that offer custom binary patching of the in-memory kernel (for a large price)
[20:05:27] iamlindoro: hmm, nope, I lie, Nigel applied something similar to fixes
[20:05:29] iamlindoro: but not the same
[20:05:38] iamlindoro: it's definitely related
[20:05:51] iamlindoro: But looks like nigel's fix to fixes may not work as well as janneg's to trunk
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[20:11:34] justinh: well can't really boot til way later on, and I was figuring on an early night tonight. tomorrow is the big day
[20:12:03] iamlindoro: BigBabyDay(tm)?
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[20:13:13] justinh: yup
[20:13:17] iamlindoro: congrats!
[20:13:48] justinh: well tomorrow is the day of the induction if little fella hasn't arrived by himself.. various steps to start things rolling proper
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[20:16:25] henkpoley: Pfff, Leopard's bash is a bit splitbrained about symlinks, does use it with tab-completion, doesn't with command execution..
[20:16:30] justinh: so I think I either need vga=normal or nofb ... or nomodeset
[20:19:14] henkpoley: iamlindoro: the patch did apply, with some handholding to actually find the files (to be expected)
[20:19:39] iamlindoro: henkpoley: You may need to revert http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/25295 too
[20:19:53] iamlindoro: Since it's supposed to do the same but appears not to be
[20:20:12] henkpoley: I'll be testing on my Mac Mini too, on my MacBook I use a slightly older pre-build binary
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[20:20:52] Beirdo: so, without that patch, UPnP works with my TV. With it... recordings are borked
[20:21:20] Beirdo: will have to see what they broke
[20:21:32] Beirdo: after I have a nap to try to get my migraine gone
[20:22:55] henkpoley: iamlindoro: false alarm, on Mac Mini (more recent build) it works correctly
[20:23:20] iamlindoro: henkpoley: Am guessing the other build is < 25295?
[20:23:27] iamlindoro: the crashy one
[20:23:36] henkpoley: Lets check
[20:23:48] henkpoley: Crash: r24482
[20:24:04] henkpoley: not crash: 25356
[20:24:13] henkpoley: So yes
[20:24:13] iamlindoro: So there you go
[20:24:32] iamlindoro: go to current fixes and you should be fine
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[20:30:43] henkpoley: Now to see why `osx-packager.pl -plugins mythvideo -svnbranch release-0-23-fixes` does not build mythvideo. Well, that's probably for next week.
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[20:37:39] sphery: so iamlindoro has SOIP (smell over IP)?
[20:38:23] wagnerrp: someone beefed on trac
[20:38:55] sphery: he's smelling driver issues
[20:40:27] henkpoley: Good news everyone! I installed smell-o-vision! ;-)
[20:40:44] ** Beirdo farts and makes henkpoley gag **
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[20:43:36] EvilGuru: Hmm, Gentoo have upgraded their mythtv package and broken compat with my 10.04 Ubuntu backend
[20:44:12] iamlindoro: Update to autobuilds on your ubuntu backend and update it
[20:44:14] henkpoley: EvilGuru: 0.23-fixes has the protocol version incremented a few weeks ago
[20:44:48] EvilGuru: Yeah; will Ubuntu pick it up?
[20:45:38] iamlindoro: autobuilds are nightly
[20:45:48] henkpoley: btw, mythwelcome *used* to wait with running the frontend when it was started near a recording slot. Since 0.22 or so it doesn't anymore. Is there a fix somewhere ?
[20:46:06] henkpoley: EvilGuru: http://www.mythbuntu.org/auto-builds
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[20:59:51] Beirdo: hmmm, that was a nice mini-nap
[20:59:57] Beirdo: head still throbbing
[21:10:11] J-e-f-f-A: Beirdo: Yeah, that'll happen when you fall asleep on your keyboard...  ;-)
[21:14:27] justinh: HDHR down to $85? :-O We need some of that in the UK
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[21:15:52] skd5aner: justinh: where?
[21:16:20] justinh: woot, apparently
[21:16:42] skd5aner: is it for the just T1?
[21:16:46] skd5aner: if so, it's one tuner
[21:16:54] skd5aner: you can get that for $80 on amazon
[21:17:24] justinh: see the woot.com homepage. dual version apparently
[21:17:36] skd5aner: hmmmm
[21:18:10] skd5aner: indeed... oh man, I might just have to give in and get one
[21:18:48] Twiggy2cents (Twiggy2cents!~Twiggy@12.182.96.2) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:19:03] justinh: brought to you by the power of tweetage
[21:19:03] skd5aner: get rid of my 2 old HD5000 cards and just have 2 HDHRs instead
[21:19:41] sphery: skd5aner: btw, did you have some plan for the 0.23-fixes release notes for going to point releases (like 0.23.1)?
[21:19:55] skd5aner: sphery: I did have a plan, at one point ;)
[21:20:25] sphery: but you hadn't done any -fixes branch notes?
[21:20:28] skd5aner: sphery: wagnerrp and I was going back and forth on the difference between maintaining a .23-fixes release notes and a .23.1 release notes prior to the .23 release...
[21:20:30] sphery: just trunk stuff for 0.24?
[21:20:44] sphery: yeah, we didn't even find a -fixes one...
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[21:21:02] skd5aner: sphery: so far yes, but my intentions (at the time) was to maintain a .23-fixes one as well, and go back and look at commits explicitely for .23-fixes and document them in a similiar changelog fashion
[21:21:27] skd5aner: sphery: look at the history on .23.1 changelog wiki... I changed it to .23-fixes, wagnerrp changed it back ;)
[21:21:35] sphery: we made a new one... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Release_Notes_-_0.23.1 and a couple of us put some stuff on it
[21:21:55] sphery: oh, yeah, early stuff
[21:22:14] skd5aner: I would probably be willing to go out and do it, but it would take me a week or so to getting much accomplished on it
[21:22:28] sphery: it's not that big a deal--and definitely not your responsibility
[21:22:32] skd5aner: I planned on being more proactive come post .24 release
[21:22:37] sphery: I just wanted to make sure we weren't missing something you had done
[21:22:52] skd5aner: no sir... wysiwyg :)
[21:22:55] sphery: I thought I remembered some mention of commented info somewhere, and was wondering if that was related
[21:23:04] sphery: I guess not, though
[21:23:24] skd5aner: well... I did chat, in IRC, about some of my intentions regarding what was being put both into trunk and backported
[21:23:50] sphery: anyway, thanks--and thanks for the work on the trunk one (as those are the ones no one will ever do--going back through everything from 0.23 to 0.24 and updating
[21:23:55] skd5aner: when everything was RC, I didn't put anything backported in the .24 release notes because ultimately those backports would actually wind up in .23
[21:24:08] sphery: right
[21:24:11] sphery: makes sense
[21:24:16] skd5aner: when .23 was officially cut/release, then anything that was put into trunk AND backported still made it to the .24 release notes
[21:24:35] sphery: I see
[21:25:05] sphery: anyway, I don't mean to say that you should do the 0.23.1 notes... was just making sure we weren't throwing away some effort you had done
[21:25:12] skd5aner: obviously, folks running .23-fixes (or the eventual .23.1 release) would still get any of those items that had been backported, it just made sense to me that if it wasn't in the official .23 release, then it's a .24 feature (even if backported)
[21:25:30] sphery: works for me
[21:25:34] skd5aner: nope, but thanks for asking
[21:25:55] skd5aner: Come .24, my answer would probably be "yes – I have done something for .24-fixes"
[21:25:59] sphery: heh, laziness was my primary motivation for asking :)
[21:26:39] skd5aner: I honestly didn't, and I'm not pointing fingers here, because wagnerrp said ".23-fixes" isn't a "release" – so I didn't want to go through the political headaches of trying to do a changelog for what some say is not a "release"
[21:27:10] skd5aner: I also didn't argue, because I knew that meant less work for me ;)
[21:27:18] sphery: heh, yeah
[21:27:33] sphery: and, really, chances are we won't have a 0.24.1, so skipping 0.24-fixes is fine with me
[21:27:37] sphery: same with any other -fixes
[21:27:44] skd5aner: my opinion, I don't see why a .##-fixes page can't be classified in the release notes
[21:27:58] sphery: with the quicker release schedule, the .1's aren't as important/sensible
[21:28:28] sphery: it does make sense to have a page where users can look to see what crashes/failures have been fixed since the release version
[21:28:35] skd5aner: but it would be useful to have a page, in a chronological order, where backports to -fixes branches can be tracked – which is what I'm going to try with .24, just to see if it makes sense or not
[21:28:45] sphery: not sure it's worth the effort, though
[21:28:57] sphery: saying "a lot of nasty bugs were fixed" has been working well enough for me
[21:29:10] skd5aner: I know you can do it via trac, but that's not always easy for users to comprehend, or just see the quick-list of what's relavent
[21:29:39] skd5aner: either way, if I (or someone else) doesn't do it... oh well ;)
[21:29:44] skd5aner: then point them to trac ;)
[21:29:47] sphery: that's basically what http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/log/branches/relea . . . mp;limit=100 is... the 0.23-fixes changes
[21:29:55] sphery: er, that, specifically is 0.23.1 changes
[21:29:55] skd5aner: exactly
[21:30:04] sphery: right
[21:30:10] sphery: we were both thinking the same :)
[21:30:22] skd5aner: it's nice when that happens huh? heh
[21:30:32] sphery: that's when you know you're on the same page
[21:30:51] skd5aner: if only that happened more at work, then life would be easy(er)
[21:31:27] sphery: heh, yeah
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[21:36:25] skd5aner: hmmm, to spend $90 on another HDHR or not....
[21:36:43] justinh: MOARTUNNERZ!
[21:36:58] skd5aner: well, yea... or replacement tunners in my case
[21:37:25] skd5aner: definitely don't need it... but...
[21:37:28] justinh: I really hope the nvidia driver is why I'm seeing issues with my backend machine
[21:37:52] skd5aner: Also, I think the power supply in my masterbackend might be reaching it's limits
[21:38:03] skd5aner: so, it would be good to get 2 PCI cards out of the mix
[21:39:23] skd5aner: I paid $134 for my first HDHR, looking though the invoices
[21:40:04] RockHound (RockHound!~quassel@d033180.adsl.hansenet.de) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[21:40:21] skd5aner: looks like $140–150 is the average price
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[21:44:54] skd5aner: ordered 1
[21:45:09] skd5aner: anyone want 2 HD-5000 PCI ATSC cards? :D
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[21:53:44] Beirdo: omg
[21:53:59] Beirdo: whoever wrote this code needs a clue
[21:54:32] kormoc: be careful, you might summon the hardly brothers and their raging clues
[21:56:40] Beirdo: heh
[21:57:04] Beirdo: kormoc: you saw the response to your schedule update?
[21:57:11] kormoc: yeah
[21:57:22] Beirdo: K. Just wanted to make sure it didn't get missed
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[22:12:01] sphery: kormoc: Here's another response to your scheduler (and mythfilldatabase-related) updates: Thanks! Great work.
[22:12:18] ** kormoc tips his hat **
[22:12:20] sphery: it's nice to have someone looking at improving performance in the DB
[22:14:02] kormoc: I have a few more indexes to add that should help mythfilldatabase a little bit as well
[22:14:11] ** sphery decides that since we just got our first user (in years) admitting to using non-ASCII chars in the directories in his storage groups, he won't backport the encoding fix **
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[22:31:54] autojack: will an OTA set top tuner box that supports ATSC work in the current US DTV environment? I think the answer is yes but I'm trying to be sure.
[22:32:20] autojack: to clarify – this is the type of box that can output HD over composite, DVI, s-video, etc.
[22:32:45] autojack: the type that people bought back when they had an HD-ready TV without an HD tuner.
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[22:46:39] sphery: autojack: yes
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[23:03:37] autojack: sphery: thanks :)
[23:04:02] autojack: I know it's a bit off topic but this is the only place I could think of where I could get the right answer.
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[23:04:52] twiggy2cents (twiggy2cents!~darren@70-41-33-247.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:05:12] twiggy2cents: hey what do you guys use to stream myth recordings to another computer?
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[23:05:50] sphery: twiggy2cents: mythbackend, streaming to mythfrontend
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[23:06:09] twiggy2cents: hmm even on lan its a little choppy
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[23:06:10] twiggy2cents: :(
[23:06:19] twiggy2cents: any performance tips or is something buggered?
[23:06:35] twiggy2cents: I should say wired lan
[23:06:38] kormoc: what type of network?
[23:06:45] kth (kth!~kth@dyndsl-080-228-189-046.ewe-ip-backbone.de) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:06:49] twiggy2cents: standard 10/100
[23:06:56] kormoc: does it play correctly on the local box?
[23:07:02] twiggy2cents: yes
[23:07:23] twiggy2cents: The router is a wrt54g dd-wrt
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