Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Sunday, March 14th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:26]

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[00:01:13]

binarybob_:

i don't see anything other than "Loading menu theme from..." in the mythfrontend.log in /var/log/mythtv/

[00:01:26]

binarybob_:

i am guessing that is a good thing ;)

[00:01:44]

wagnerrp:

no, it just means youre not being very verbose

[00:01:49]

wagnerrp:

logs != errors

[00:04:00]

binarybob_:

i understand

[00:04:52]

binarybob_:

where shall I add more loggin?

[00:05:57]

wagnerrp:

how did you run the frontend?

[00:06:56]

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[00:08:32]

binarybob_:

i get a lot of these 2010-03–13 18:07:27.733 NVP(0): Video is 9.42804 frames ahead of audio,

[00:08:33]

binarybob_:

doubling video frame interval to slow down.

[00:08:41]

binarybob_:

i found it ;)

[00:08:48]

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[00:10:36]

binarybob_:

this looks interesting 2010-03–13 18:10:09.640 NVP(0): Video is 5.44725 frames behind audio (too slow), dropping frame to catch up

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[00:13:06]

binarybob_:

sorry, taking forever to get to the feature

[00:13:54]

iamlindoro:

binarybob_, What they are getting at is that you should *not* cherry pick logs

[00:14:13]

iamlindoro:

if you knew which messages were critical, you wouldn't need help ;)

[00:14:19]

iamlindoro:

you should be pastebinning the whole thing

[00:16:59]

lyricnz:

does youtube kill all audio tracks that have music now? (copyright) or only if they get a complaint? The artists don't care.... :/

[00:17:23]

wagnerrp:

theyre only going to remove something if they get a complaint

[00:17:28]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, they dont care

[00:17:54]

lyricnz:

suck it and see? :)

[00:18:03]

lyricnz:

I think all my artists are dead :)

[00:18:16]

lyricnz:

Well, or disbanded :)

[00:18:25]

wagnerrp:

the artists generally dont own their music

[00:18:28]

wagnerrp:

at least not anymore

[00:18:29]

lyricnz:

The Doors, and A-ha ;)

[00:18:40]

lyricnz:

Ya, fsck the riaa :)

[00:19:01]

wagnerrp:

either way, someone owns all music since the 30s

[00:19:09]

lyricnz:

Yeah, how ridiculous

[00:19:15]

lyricnz:

But true

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[00:22:42]

binarybob_:

i got you....I am running via terminal mythfrontend -v playback >mylog.out

[00:22:52]

binarybob_:

but I only got part of it :(

[00:24:12]

binarybob_:

guess I need the ol mythfrontend -v playback $1>mylog.txt $2>>mylog.txt

[00:24:27]

wagnerrp:

no, its all stdout

[00:24:28]

binarybob_:

or like

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wagnerrp:

output to stderr only happens on a crash

[00:24:57]

binarybob_:

okay...i will just pastebin what I got then...

[00:27:16]

binarybob_:

too long for pastebin...LOL

[00:28:57]

binarybob_:

here it is http://pastebin.com/tTGuEize

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binarybob_:

now that is a narly log...any ideas?

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[02:15:35]

Hymie:

does anyone here have a LARGE video collection?

[02:17:26]

Hymie:

it takes about 30 seconds for mythvideo to load now, in folder view mode ... used to take.. well, 0.123 seconds

[02:17:33]

wagnerrp:

define 'large'

[02:18:00]

Hymie:

hmm, sec

[02:18:27]

wagnerrp:

with somewhere over 3k videos, it takes about a second to load for me

[02:18:57]

Hymie:

hmm

[02:19:18]

Hymie:

even that's rather slow... arg, I'll have to figure out what it's doing... something silly, for sure

[02:19:38]

Hymie:

I'm still waiting on my ls -Rl | wc

[02:19:47]

Hymie:

$ ls -Rl /mnt/a/Movies/ | grep -v jpg | grep -v imdb | wc -l

[02:19:47]

Hymie:

2068

[02:19:48]

wagnerrp:

well how fast do you want it to load?

[02:19:54]

Hymie:

not 30 seconds!!

[02:20:09]

wagnerrp:

all its doing is a database lookup

[02:20:17]

Hymie:

in fact, it is 30 seconds every time I move back up to the top level

[02:20:22]

wagnerrp:

if its taking 30 seconds, either youre in browse mode with some file system bug

[02:20:25]

Hymie:

well, no.. it's doing more than just a database lookup

[02:20:29]

wagnerrp:

or your database is fubar'd

[02:20:34]

newton21989:

db server running slow?

[02:20:37]

wagnerrp:

no... its just a database lookup

[02:20:41]

wagnerrp:

one big giant one

[02:20:52]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: there must be 50 billion left joins ;)

[02:21:03]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe there are any

[02:21:09]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: because, it's also counting all the files in the subdirs too

[02:21:13]

newton21989:

what changed when the problem started?

[02:21:18]

wagnerrp:

not unless youre using one of the special browse modes

[02:21:23]

Hymie:

moved from 0.21 to 0.22

[02:21:23]

wagnerrp:

its not counting anything

[02:21:28]

wagnerrp:

its a database lookup

[02:21:30]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: sure it is, heh

[02:21:37]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: yes, but there are counts involved

[02:21:39]

Hymie:

count()

[02:21:55]

Hymie:

it's doing more than one query, or a massive, massive, massive single query..

[02:22:00]

Hymie:

sec

[02:22:03]

wagnerrp:

unless youre in browse mode, in which case it has to traverse the directory structure

[02:22:09]

wagnerrp:

but even that shouldnt take more than a few seconds

[02:22:17]

wagnerrp:

unless you have some file system bug

[02:22:26]

wagnerrp:

like... trying to access a large directory over samba

[02:22:33]

newton21989:

does 0.22 handle queries differently than 0.21?

[02:22:36]

Hymie:

again, was perfect with 0.21, now 30 seconds with 0.22, same mode, I'm checking what mode it is

[02:22:40]

Hymie:

oh yes, it does

[02:22:44]

Hymie:

there were tons of changes

[02:22:53]

Hymie:

it can now display by author, etc, etc

[02:23:11]

iamlindoro:

That has nothing to do with the queries

[02:23:11]

Hymie:

yeah, file browse mode is off

[02:23:15]

Hymie:

uh?!

[02:23:16]

Hymie:

hehe

[02:23:22]

iamlindoro:

And nothing changed in the DB loading between .21 and .22

[02:23:29]

Hymie:

if I switch it to author, it is most definitely a different database query ;)

[02:23:29]

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[02:23:45]

iamlindoro:

No, it's not

[02:23:52]

iamlindoro:

but what do I know, I only wrote the code.

[02:24:03]

Hymie:

holy cow, iamlindoro ... yes, much chnaged in db loading between mythvideo .21 and .22.. entirely new way to query the database

[02:24:06]

iamlindoro:

please tell me more about how my plugin works

[02:24:15]

newton21989:

doesn't mythvideo scan the directory each time you got to "watch videos" ?

[02:24:15]

iamlindoro:

no.

[02:24:18]

iamlindoro:

no.

[02:24:27]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: how can you say nothing changed, when you can now display results by author, etc, etc

[02:24:28]

newton21989:

seems like it for me

[02:24:39]

** kormoc sighs **

[02:25:00]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: are you using one of the special browse modes?

[02:25:01]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, because the metadata list is loaded once into an object, and then that information is filtered and rebuilt to use metadata browse modes

[02:25:10]

wagnerrp:

sorting by author takes ~15s for me

[02:25:18]

newton21989:

i have podcasts in my video directory and it's always up-to-date without scanning for changes

[02:25:21]

iamlindoro:

newton21989, only time MV will "scan" on the way in is when using file browse mode

[02:25:29]

iamlindoro:

then you are using said mode

[02:25:33]

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[02:25:39]

newton21989:

i use gallery mode

[02:25:44]

iamlindoro:

that's your view

[02:25:52]

newton21989:

ah

[02:26:02]

iamlindoro:

having nothing to do with file browse mode/database browse mode

[02:26:14]

newton21989:

gotcha

[02:26:21]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I'm not up on the new verbage for 0.22. I'm just using the default folder view

[02:26:49]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: well, in 0.21, this same display (which you say is identical) loaded effectively instantly

[02:26:51]

iamlindoro:

'Folder' is the default metadata browse mode, which is analogous to the only mode in .21

[02:26:55]

wagnerrp:

you hit 'm', browse by, and select a different browse mode

[02:26:57]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: now it is at least 20–30 seconds

[02:27:03]

wagnerrp:

all but 'cast' should be fairly quick

[02:27:06]

wagnerrp:

cast may take a while

[02:27:10]

newton21989:

ok, so is OP using db mode and not file mode by accident?

[02:27:23]

wagnerrp:

OP should be using db mode

[02:27:24]

iamlindoro:

newton21989, File browse mode is slower, not faster

[02:27:26]

wagnerrp:

thats the default mode

[02:27:51]

Hymie:

newton21989: I am using db mode.. I have MV set to not look at the filesystem

[02:28:10]

newton21989:

iamlindoro, i get that

[02:28:25]

iamlindoro:

file browse mode off and 30 second load times indicates database problems and/or filesystem issues and folders at the top level

[02:28:27]

hipitihop:

of things it is still less then clear as to what is the standard transcoding setup and where transcoded files are stored..anyone have a link to current guide/doc

[02:28:35]

Hymie:

hmm, wtf, even list mode takes 10 seconds

[02:28:37]

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[02:28:54]

wagnerrp:

hipitihop: when you use the internal transcoder, it transcodes to a temp file, and then replaces the existing recording with it

[02:29:03]

wagnerrp:

same name, same folder

[02:29:03]

iamlindoro:

an ls being anything but instantaneous indicates that the issue is aside from myth

[02:29:19]

Hymie:

ls is instant, it's not that

[02:29:28]

Hymie:

ls -Rl | wc takes time, of course, I have tons of subdirs, etc

[02:29:29]

iamlindoro:

"I'm still waiting on my ls -Rl | wc"

[02:29:38]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: well sure, heh

[02:29:51]

** iamlindoro sighs, goes to make dinner **

[02:30:01]

iamlindoro:

maybe when I come back I can learn more about how MythVideo works

[02:30:24]

hipitihop:

wagnerrp, hmm which is perhaps not what I am after ... is there a current guide somewhere and are there any settings for the internal transcoder

[02:30:26]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: there are grep statements, if you think an ls -Rl of 40k files is instant, along with grep -v statements and wc -l... come on

[02:31:04]

Hymie:

in flat view, I have 10k videos

[02:31:06]

iamlindoro:

If you have 40k files in your mythvideo directories, you are shooting your own self in the foot

[02:31:06]

hachi:

hmmmm

[02:31:18]

wagnerrp:

setup --> tv-settings --> recording profiles --> transcoders

[02:31:31]

hachi:

mythbackend is spewing errors about being unable to connect to my database... my database is up... and it's been working this whole time

[02:31:34]

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[02:31:49]

wagnerrp:

note that the internal transcoder will ONLY transcode to a nupplevideo file

[02:31:49]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: why? I have a large collection... and in a mode where mythvideo isn't supposed to look at the filesystem, only at the database, why would that matter?

[02:31:55]

wagnerrp:

its fine for mpeg-to-mpeg lossless

[02:31:59]

hipitihop:

I do not want to lose quality for my normal forntend playback, but I would like to have an alternative list available to transfer or stream to smaller devices in the hous like ipods or other personal players

[02:32:11]

wagnerrp:

but you may want to look elsewhere for transcoding for external playback

[02:32:22]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I must say I am quite hpapy with what changes I can detect tohugh.. the idea of posters not slowing one, when scrolling through the folder tree, is great

[02:32:26]

iamlindoro:

MythVideo *does* have many new ways of hunting images in your folders-- if you have packed many folders to bursting, and MythVideo has to parse through those files, and having tons of unrelated files is going to greatly increase that parsing

[02:32:53]

iamlindoro:

Even in DB browse mode, MythVideo still does image hunting/parsing in folders

[02:33:01]

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[02:33:15]

iamlindoro:

so if you have tons of top level directories, and each has tons and tons of files, then that is likely the root of your issue

[02:33:26]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: well, the database defines what video posters to load for what videos... so, is there a way to turn off what you're talking about?

[02:33:31]

hachi:

QSqlQuery::exec: database not open

[02:33:34]

hipitihop:

wagnerrp, so s that something achievable using the internal trancoding options ?

[02:33:36]

hachi:

but the backend is working fine

[02:33:47]

iamlindoro:

The database defines images to load for *videos*, but not the images associated with *folders*

[02:33:51]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I compile by source, a hint of where to look would be very cool...

[02:33:52]

iamlindoro:

and no, you cannot turn off image hunt

[02:33:59]

wagnerrp:

hipitihop: the internal transcoder will only transcode to nupplevideo... if you want to use an external player, you shouldnt use it

[02:34:07]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: hmm.. there are only perhaps ... 200 folders

[02:34:14]

newton21989:

mythbackend quite often attempts to record, but outputs a zero-length file and won't record anything after.

[02:34:20]

wagnerrp:

thats a lot of folders

[02:34:22]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I don't think that will slow down to 30 seconds, the loading of the top level view

[02:34:32]

wagnerrp:

youre not one of those types that puts each file in its own individual folder are you?

[02:34:36]

iamlindoro:

that is a huge number of top level folders

[02:34:37]

kormoc:

Hymie: reality disagrees with you

[02:34:52]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: not top level, total folders, through the whole tree

[02:35:02]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I have.. lets' see.. 5 folders in the top level tree

[02:35:04]

hipitihop:

wagnerrp, not sue what nupple is but I'll look it up, so is that intended for lossless transcoding to reduce file size ?

[02:35:20]

wagnerrp:

nupplevideo is the container format mythtv uses

[02:35:36]

wagnerrp:

if you are doing 'lossless' transcoding, you will go from an mpeg file to an mpeg file without commercials

[02:35:46]

hachi:

/usr/bin/mythbackend --generate-preview 0x0 --chanid 6185 --starttime 20100310233320

[02:35:48]

wagnerrp:

if you are doing any other kind of transcoding, you will end up with nupplevideo

[02:35:51]

hachi:

is that a record process?

[02:35:56]

wagnerrp:

which will not be usable outside of mythtv

[02:35:59]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: so, with 200 folders, 5 at the top level, do you still believe that this is the cause of the slowdown, compared to 0.21?

[02:36:15]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: it will give me a place to start hacking the code at...

[02:36:15]

kormoc:

hachi: no, it's a generate preview process, hence the --generate-preview

[02:36:29]

hachi:

k, but the value passed to generate-preview is 0

[02:36:29]

iamlindoro:

impossible to make a determination without much, much more information

[02:36:32]

hachi:

generally false

[02:36:38]

wagnerrp:

hachi: mythtv spawns those off, so in the event it crashes, it does not take down the backend

[02:36:45]

hachi:

mmm

[02:36:46]

kormoc:

Hymie: hacking the code blindly is the worse way to fix it. You should run a profile and check that...

[02:36:56]

hachi:

well, that process took down my backend

[02:37:06]

hachi:

by taking up all the disk space with the logged output from it

[02:37:07]

kormoc:

hachi: in this case, it's the time offset to generate the preview image from

[02:37:18]

kormoc:

0 says the first frame

[02:37:22]

hachi:

ahh

[02:37:23]

Hymie:

kormoc: I've had to hack every version of myth for things, and why is it blindly? I know the problem, myth is running slow ;)

[02:37:30]

** kormoc sighs **

[02:37:34]

iamlindoro:

ugh

[02:37:35]

kormoc:

but you don't know where or why

[02:37:36]

iamlindoro:

dinner calls

[02:37:46]

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[02:37:56]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: you think mythvideo is running hundreds of calls against videometadata, when it is in fact only doing one

[02:38:02]

Hymie:

kormoc: sure I do, it's mythvideo, and it has to do with either database issues, or filesystem issues... and specifically with top folder lookups

[02:38:05]

kormoc:

and rather then use the technology to find out where or why it's slow, you rather just randomly assume it's X and screw with the code...

[02:38:10]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I do?

[02:38:20]

wagnerrp:

you said it was

[02:38:24]

kormoc:

Hymie: given iamlindoro already explained it's not db time, as we cache the meta data and query the memory cache...

[02:38:29]

hachi:

kormoc: what would trigger this process, channel changing, or recording, or something?

[02:38:32]

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[02:38:49]

kormoc:

hachi: viewing the recording page in mythweb or in mythfrontend

[02:38:58]

Hymie:

kormoc: no, when asked more directly, he said he was not sure...

[02:39:02]

newton21989:

my backend keeps failing, outputting zero-length files, and not recording anything else until the backend is restarted. any ideas?

[02:39:09]

Hymie:

kormoc: by, why don't you let him speak for himself??

[02:39:17]

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[02:39:21]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: because he left to go eat

[02:39:32]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: oh, you're kormoc now?

[02:39:47]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: why don't you let kormoc respond to statements made to him?

[02:39:48]

kormoc:

Hymie: be nice or be gone

[02:39:49]

wagnerrp:

seems so

[02:40:19]

Tanthrix:

I just setup a new frontend by dd-ing my working BE/FE system to a new drive in a new system, then made all the appropriate software changes. Everything is working great, but I was wondering if I should recompile myth. Thoughts?

[02:40:25]

kormoc:

Hymie: you're talking to a bunch of myth devs in a very respectless way and getting very belligerent

[02:40:29]

Tanthrix:

(Going from Core 2 Duo to P4, same nvidia drivers though)

[02:40:32]

kormoc:

Hymie: that's not tolerated in this channel

[02:40:37]

Hymie:

kormoc: heh

[02:40:44]

Hymie:

kormoc: I am most certainly not

[02:41:05]

kormoc:

I disagree

[02:41:06]

wagnerrp:

Tanthrix: if everything is working great, why recompile?

[02:41:12]

kisak:

I was considering switching from comcast cable to verizon fios and it appears that only the local channels are clearQAM. I have a pair of PVR-150's and a hdhomerun, what are my options if I were to switch to fiostv?

[02:41:29]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Well, just wondering if the architecture change is enough that I'd get better performance, or if it's generally considered the Right Thing To Do.

[02:41:40]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: But, as you said, don't fix it if it ain't broke is generally a good approach.

[02:41:46]

hipitihop:

wagnerrp, thanks for your answers, what owuld you consider the current and definitive guide to using external transcoder then

[02:42:02]

wagnerrp:

Tanthrix: if its working, that means youre already running 32-bit, and it should run fine on any P4

[02:42:04]

kormoc:

Tanthrix: the only thing that /might/ be affected will be the playback/decoding stuff that we use libavcodec for, so if it's working, it's all good

[02:42:14]

wagnerrp:

youre not going to get any significant gain by recompiling

[02:42:15]

Hymie:

kormoc: well, your opinions are your own, although I can't comprehend why you think iamlindoro, for example, is offended

[02:42:17]

Tanthrix:

Cool, I'll leave it as in then. Thanks.

[02:42:40]

wagnerrp:

hipitihop: nuvexport is the only one i know of in contrib

[02:43:14]

wagnerrp:

kisak: your possibilities are not likely to change from one cable provider to another

[02:43:17]

Hymie:

kormoc: how many red bulls have you had tonight? ;) anyhow.. I'm going to go and track more of this down... iamlindoro has given me some hints. For some reason, I'm wasting my time... as you said, but hey... no biggie

[02:43:29]

wagnerrp:

youre not likely to get more than the local broadcast channels over QAM

[02:43:37]

wagnerrp:

and you may not get anything over firewire

[02:43:48]

wagnerrp:

so for whatever you cannot get in the clear, analog capture is your only option

[02:43:55]

wagnerrp:

either off your existing 150s, or from an HDPVR

[02:44:05]

wagnerrp:

then either use IR or firewire to control the STB

[02:44:43]

russell5:

does anyone use auto shutdown /wakeup?

[02:44:52]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: are these local files? or have you switched to using storage groups?

[02:45:43]

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[02:45:46]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: in myth 0.21, I used folder view mode (what is that called, btw?), but all of the data came from the database, it did not scan the local filesystem

[02:45:46]

newton21989:

i've got a backend that regularly fails, outputting zero-length files, and not recording anything else until the backend is restarted. any ideas?

[02:46:22]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: in 0.22, I entered that same view (I believe, it looks thge same, although it now counts the files in the subdirectories, and places to total on the folder image)

[02:46:27]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: youve got 'db mode' and 'browse mode'

[02:46:37]

wagnerrp:

on top of that, youve got the four view modes

[02:46:51]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: well, if browse mode is the file view, I'm using db mode...

[02:46:54]

wagnerrp:

and then theres the additional 'browse by' modes

[02:46:58]

Hymie:

ok

[02:47:04]

Hymie:

the browse by, actor, etc, etc

[02:47:06]

Hymie:

yes, I've seen that

[02:47:23]

wagnerrp:

the basic view mode are going to be very fast

[02:47:25]

slb_:

i used aptitude to get everything set up for mythtv and then i run mythtv-setup and it says cannot connect to x server – granted I didnt install x except for teh dependencies necessary for mythtv so i was under the assumption i only needs the x libs, so with that being said can anyone point me int he right direction as to resolving this problem?

[02:47:37]

wagnerrp:

the 'browse by' modes are going to be slower, due to reprocessing

[02:47:45]

kormoc:

slb_: the gui applications require a xserver to be running

[02:47:48]

wagnerrp:

but im asking if your content is local, or if you are using storage groups?

[02:48:14]

slb_:

ok i guess i have to set up x then unless thre is an alternative?

[02:48:21]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: wasn't storage groups added for content in mythtv recording groups? Anyhow, all my content is local.... so, no

[02:48:26]

wagnerrp:

slb_: you can either manually forward it to a remote one, or you can use the automatic X tunneling in ssh

[02:48:27]

Hymie:

no storage groups

[02:48:38]

slb_:

hm automatic x tunneling

[02:48:49]

wagnerrp:

this is local content? not over nfs/samba?

[02:48:49]

slb_:

i guess ill look into that

[02:49:00]

Hymie:

it's over nfs...

[02:49:02]

slb_:

i was really hoping to avoid settuping up a full x setup

[02:49:05]

newton21989:

slb_: you need x to run mythtv-setup, it's a graphical application

[02:49:40]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: ok, I'm in gallery mode

[02:49:49]

newton21989:

i guess you could edit the conf file manually, although i have no experience with this

[02:49:52]

slb_:

yea i just assumed i need the libs but im clear now thanks

[02:49:54]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: that's the name of it, I had to move to another mode, to see what mode I was in.. which is logical

[02:50:01]

wagnerrp:

newton21989: X is network transparent, you can run any X application on any remote X server, so long as the server is set up to listen and you have the proper permissions

[02:50:40]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: i only ask, because there have been problems in the past with both browse mode and image lookups for people using samba

[02:50:49]

wagnerrp:

samba is rather slow for each lookup

[02:50:51]

slb_:

ill just set up an x server i guess

[02:51:00]

wagnerrp:

slb_: you dont need X installed on the local machine

[02:51:07]

wagnerrp:

you just need X on a machine somewhere on your network

[02:51:27]

slb_:

i dont have x setup anywhere

[02:51:30]

wagnerrp:

and you either need to let that X server listen on the network, and point mythtv-setup at the remote server

[02:51:34]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I can imagine, but from what I've seen, that's not the case. For example, when I first enter gallery mode, it takes 30 seconds or so. However, when I scroll through, it then starts to load the images .. as MV isn't caching them all. The image loading is very quick...

[02:51:34]

slb_:

my other machine is win unless i set up vmware or something

[02:51:37]

wagnerrp:

or you need to tunnel with 'ssh -X'

[02:51:41]

kormoc:

slb_: how were you planning to watch tv with myth?

[02:51:43]

newton21989:

this is relevant to my interests

[02:51:58]

slb_:

i wasnt, i was only planning on doing movies, etc

[02:52:05]

slb_:

but like i said i thought i just needed the x libs

[02:52:12]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: mythvideo does cache all images after the first use

[02:52:17]

wagnerrp:

it stores them in ~/.mythtv/themecache

[02:52:39]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I mean in ram, for when you are scrolling through them

[02:52:41]

kormoc:

Hymie: we scan to find which images to use on startup, a full, recursive directory scan...

[02:53:08]

kormoc:

by startup, I mean plugin startup, not mythfrontend startup

[02:53:14]

wagnerrp:

slb_: if you dont intent to record TV, mythtv probably isnt for you

[02:53:15]

Hymie:

kormoc: iamlindoro eluded tot hat, but not for video images, because those come from the database.. he said that images for directories do, though

[02:53:31]

slb_:

its possible i eventually will

[02:53:39]

wagnerrp:

and if you dont intend to run X, then recording is the only thing mythtv can do

[02:53:39]

slb_:

i odnt know my friend just recommended it for movies and what not

[02:53:42]

kormoc:

correct, but again, it's still what happens

[02:53:44]

Hymie:

kormoc: also, if I descend into a directory in gallery mode, then ascend back to the top view, I have a long lag still

[02:53:50]

slb_:

as a nice frontend

[02:53:58]

newton21989:

slb_: try boxee or xbmc

[02:54:03]

Hymie:

hmmm

[02:54:06]

kormoc:

slb_: the frontend requires a xserver to run

[02:54:06]

wagnerrp:

slb_: the frontend requires X

[02:54:15]

Hymie:

even moving into a directory with 113 files, takes approximately 1/2 a second

[02:54:20]

slb_:

then ill set up x

[02:54:35]

wagnerrp:

what were you intending to do without X?

[02:54:42]

wagnerrp:

without X, linux is nothing more than a text terminal

[02:54:50]

slb_:

which i like

[02:54:58]

slb_:

my box is primarily a server

[02:54:59]

wagnerrp:

but text terminals dont play movies

[02:55:02]

slb_:

and for development

[02:55:06]

Hymie:

hmm, 19 seconds

[02:55:08]

newton21989:

ascii video?

[02:55:12]

newton21989:

lol

[02:55:15]

slb_:

like i said i thought it just needed x libs

[02:55:19]

kormoc:

half a second is within painter time tolerances

[02:55:25]

Hymie:

kormoc: it's definitely not just on MV initialization

[02:55:59]

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[02:56:00]

newton21989:

slb_: if you want to do /anything/ graphical on linux, you need X

[02:56:03]

kormoc:

if you profile the code and find out which function is taking that time, that can point as to why it's slow and if/how to fix it

[02:56:32]

fukdnscerd:

it would be a nice decrease in overhead if myth could run without x. But I understand myth relies heavily on the window manager right??

[02:56:46]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: without X, what do you draw to?

[02:56:55]

fukdnscerd:

framebuffer?

[02:56:59]

newton21989:

everything graphical needs the window manager

[02:56:59]

Hymie:

kormoc: well, do you have an places I can go, so I can find out how to profile the code? I was just going to comment out the calls to scan for image files, in mythvideo, after I found them

[02:57:00]

fukdnscerd:

like vlc does

[02:57:08]

wagnerrp:

no one likes the framebuffer

[02:57:09]

slb_:

i misread the faq is all

[02:57:12]

fukdnscerd:

s/does/can do

[02:57:19]

fukdnscerd:

i understand

[02:57:21]

Hymie:

kormoc: I can run strace and gdb, but I've not done what you're suggesting

[02:57:25]

slb_:

If you run mythtv-setup via X11 forwarding, and you don't run a frontend or any other X programs on the backend, you don't need to have an X server or graphics drivers on the backend. You do still need the X window system libraries, though.

[02:57:29]

slb_:

i misread taht line in the faq

[02:57:43]

kormoc:

Hymie: oprofile

[02:57:44]

fukdnscerd:

i imagine it is lower quality, uneducated on this tho!

[02:58:01]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: it is unaccelerated

[02:58:22]

fukdnscerd:

that would definitely be a problem

[02:58:26]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: lower quality, slower, extremely limited...

[02:58:28]

wagnerrp:

no assistance of any sort from the video card

[02:58:45]

wagnerrp:

and mythtv doesnt make any attempts to do scaling without the video card

[02:58:47]

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[02:59:28]

fukdnscerd:

and for that I am thankful... if I relied on my computer to do all graphics processing, I would not be running myth

[02:59:35]

newton21989:

you don't need x for the backend once it's setup (or at all using wagnerrp's method), but you do need it for the frontend

[02:59:41]

slb_:

has anyone ever tried watching tv, etc using firewire from their cablebox with mythtv?

[02:59:52]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: the overhead X adds is extremely limited, for example my X server uses a massive 12 megs of ram for 1080i

[02:59:58]

wagnerrp:

slb_: plenty of people, but mythtv does not support encrypted firewire

[03:00:04]

wagnerrp:

so you tend to be limited in what you can capture

[03:00:10]

slb_:

indeed

[03:00:14]

wagnerrp:

its entirely up to what your cableco decides you should be able to record

[03:00:22]

slb_:

id purcahse a card anyway but i was just curious really

[03:00:33]

fukdnscerd:

kormoc: heh.. never looked at it but mine is only using 4.8

[03:00:35]

Hymie:

kormoc: hmm, looks like it will be quicker to just comment the code in question, as a test

[03:01:08]

fukdnscerd:

ehh.. nvm thats percent....

[03:01:21]

newton21989:

i have a problem to pose...

[03:01:24]

newton21989:

i've got a backend that regularly fails, outputting zero-length files, and not recording anything else until the backend is restarted. any ideas?

[03:01:47]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: sudo pmap -d `pidof X`, it's the writable/private

[03:01:50]

[R]:

newton21989: what does the log say? what is your tuner?

[03:02:08]

wagnerrp:

newton21989: sounds like the tuner card is getting hosed, and you have to restart the backend to release the card and let it reset

[03:02:20]

fukdnscerd:

21.5

[03:02:25]

newton21989:

problem started after upgrading to FC12

[03:02:42]

newton21989:

tuner is wintv usb 2 (not pvr)

[03:02:42]

fukdnscerd:

kormoc: thats cool, i never knew pmap existed

[03:02:56]

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[03:02:58]

newton21989:

uses em28xx driver

[03:02:59]

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[03:03:19]

wagnerrp:

not pvr? meaning an old framegrabber?

[03:03:34]

** newton21989 shrugs **

[03:03:36]

newton21989:

i guess

[03:03:44]

wagnerrp:

you record nuvs?

[03:03:45]

fukdnscerd:

its an mpeg4 card

[03:03:48]

newton21989:

yes

[03:03:56]

wagnerrp:

then its a framegrabber

[03:04:01]

newton21989:

err, yes @ wagnerrp

[03:04:14]

fukdnscerd:

ahh nvm i missread

[03:04:23]

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[03:04:50]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: it 'supports mpeg4' because the windows application hauppauge ships with it can encode to mpeg4

[03:04:58]

hachi:

anyone know what generates an error of 2010-03–13 19:04:07.804 MainServer::HandleRecorderQuery() Unknown encoder: 9

[03:05:13]

newton21989:

ok, so i have to restart the backend to release the card...

[03:05:28]

fukdnscerd:

i missed the (not pvr) part... The usb pvr2 is an mpeg4 card

[03:05:36]

wagnerrp:

newton21989: that was assuming it was a digital card

[03:05:41]

newton21989:

oh

[03:05:41]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what woudl cause that on a v4l card

[03:05:54]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: no, the pvr-usb2 is an mpeg2 encoder, no mpeg4

[03:06:34]

fukdnscerd:

heh... your right... its gettin late lol

[03:08:22]

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[03:08:50]

newton21989:

i wish i knew how to reproduce the problem...

[03:12:20]

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[03:14:13]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: hmm, it really does look like you traverse the entire directory tree downward, if you can't find an image for a directory. So, in some cases, you're going to traverse the same directory tree hundreds of times, as you progress downward

[03:14:27]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: unless I'm reading the code wrong here

[03:14:32]

** Hymie plays with da code **

[03:14:47]

wagnerrp:

it will traverse the tree down from that point

[03:15:01]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: you've added tons of cool stuff here, but I think it just has problems scaling to very large libraries

[03:15:02]

wagnerrp:

but on a single page, it will not traverse the same point more than once

[03:15:42]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: but, let's say you have dir a, with subdir b,c,d, and in b, you have e,f,g, and in e, you have h,i,j

[03:15:49]

Hymie:

it *looks* like if there are no iamges

[03:15:57]

kormoc:

yes, it will scan them all

[03:16:02]

wagnerrp:

a will scan everything

[03:16:02]

Hymie:

yeah

[03:16:12]

wagnerrp:

if you go down into b, it will scan each of e, f, and g

[03:16:36]

Hymie:

I have TV series, in a folder called .. well, >TV series... then, in that, I have all series in their own directory, and each _season_ of a series, in a subdirectory

[03:16:43]

Hymie:

so, a few hundred folders

[03:16:50]

kormoc:

so fix your file system to be faster

[03:16:52]

Hymie:

none have coverart for the directories

[03:17:07]

Hymie:

well, I'm going to comment this out, to be sure it is the filesystem

[03:17:10]

Hymie:

but, I don't think it is

[03:17:14]

Hymie:

an ls -R is fast

[03:17:15]

wagnerrp:

then it will walk down the tree until the first file it finds with defined artwork

[03:17:22]

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[03:17:25]

Hymie:

it's just with tons of greps (to remove .jpg, etc) and wc -l takes time

[03:18:06]

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[03:18:15]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: if it doesn't look for artwork for video files that don't have any posters, in the dierctory tree, it shouldn't look for the same for folders.

[03:18:31]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I'm speaking as "what I expected", not what is, I know

[03:18:44]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: do you know if it also searches for post info, if it isn't in the database?

[03:18:45]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does not store folders, it only stores individual files

[03:18:59]

wagnerrp:

it will search all files underneath that folder, and the first with content, it uses

[03:19:00]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: good point

[03:19:19]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: before, it just looked for an image file I think, if I recall 0.21 correctly

[03:19:22]

hachi:

in mainserver.cpp does the encoderList object store records as cardids?

[03:19:27]

kormoc:

time for dir in `find -d /path/to/your/media`; do if [ -e $dir/cover.jpg ]; then 1; fi; done

[03:19:53]

Hymie:

kormoc: sec

[03:20:26]

kormoc:

that path might need to be relative for it to work properly

[03:20:51]

kormoc:

(depending on your find version)

[03:20:55]

fukdnscerd:

have the mythbrowser devs considered utilizing something like xmacro to force the mouse to top of screen to cure flash focus issue

[03:21:21]

Hymie:

kormoc: yeah, massaging

[03:21:23]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: given that a fair number of folks disable the mouse...

[03:22:11]

fukdnscerd:

does xmacro require a physical mouse?

[03:22:24]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: if you disable the mouse, there's no mouse at all

[03:22:37]

kormoc:

no pointer to move

[03:22:54]

fukdnscerd:

hmm... i see

[03:23:00]

Hymie:

kormoc: just for kicks and giggles... # time find /var -type d > /dev/null

[03:23:00]

Hymie:

real 0m3.482s

[03:23:26]

Hymie:

so, I don't think that's a fair test... since that's local to this machine, and it's a SATA drive, and a multicore processor

[03:23:29]

Hymie:

it's not slow

[03:23:35]

Hymie:

fileacces or otherwise

[03:23:58]

kormoc:

Hymie: what I gave you was a quick way to time the scan for cover art files......

[03:24:03]

Hymie:

so, the methodology may be flawed here, in that, there may be an assumption on the upper size of the video library, and in that, the number of dirs

[03:24:10]

** kormoc sighs **

[03:24:20]

Hymie:

kormoc: yes, but what were were looking for was how long it takes to process the directory tree

[03:24:36]

hachi:

what subroutine populates MainServer's encoderList object?

[03:24:40]

Hymie:

since it takes over 3 seconds to just do /var

[03:24:42]

Hymie:

that's telling

[03:24:53]

Hymie:

since it is local, and on a fast SATA drive, on a fast machine

[03:25:28]

Hymie:

and, /var is about the same # of files as my video library, as ls -R | wc -l just showed

[03:26:05]

Hymie:

kormoc: my entire point is, if this is slow on a local drive, what's the point of even checking via NFS, which will clearly be slower, as a networked filesystem

[03:26:18]

Hymie:

3+ seconds is too slow as well, I would say

[03:27:37]

kormoc:

whatever

[03:27:40]

** kormoc wonders off **

[03:27:54]

Hymie:

kormoc: ?! you find my logic in error? what part?

[03:28:56]

Hymie:

kormoc: the whole if statement isn't going to take time, it's the find command, heh

[03:29:02]

hachi:

is there anyone that can actually help me debug this situation?

[03:29:16]

** Hymie thinks kormoc has blinders on, over this **

[03:29:37]

hachi:

I'm reading over the source, but sadly I'm not a C++ programmer so the syntax is a little weird to me, I can't find who defines the encoderList object, or how the object is laid out

[03:29:49]

wagnerrp:

hachi: what are you trying to do?

[03:30:03]

hachi:

19:04 < hachi> anyone know what generates an error of 2010-03–13 19:04:07.804 MainServer::HandleRecorderQuery() Unknown encoder: 9

[03:30:06]

hachi:

19:19 < hachi> in mainserver.cpp does the encoderList object store records as cardids?

[03:30:09]

hachi:

19:24 < hachi> what subroutine populates MainServer's encoderList object?

[03:30:25]

hachi:

I've restarted my whole cluster several times, but recorder 9 doesn't work

[03:30:38]

hachi:

it shows up in the lists when I look for status

[03:30:40]

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[03:30:44]

hachi:

it has entries in the tables

[03:30:57]

hachi:

but the moment I schedule something to record on it, or watch liveTV

[03:31:05]

hachi:

I'm told that the recorder doesn't exist

[03:32:43]

hachi:

the encoderList doesn't contain an element for this recorder in the running backend, but I can't figure out the layout of the encoderList object, nor can I figure out who populates the object

[03:34:59]

Hymie:

there! Now VideoDialog::GetFirstImage just returns VIDEO_SCREENSHOT_DEFAULT, much better!

[03:35:52]

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[03:37:09]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: anyhow, that code is definitely neat, but it just won't scale to larger video libraries.... maybe an option to turn it off? Or, a note for people with large libraries, to have default cover.jpg images in all their folders?

[03:37:30]

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[03:37:33]

fukdnscerd:

hey guys im still having mythtv python bindings issues, how can i go about removing and reinstalling them

[03:38:01]

** Hymie now looks at why mythvideo is slow to initalize... **

[03:38:28]

[R]:

fukdnscerd: what is remvoing and reinsatlling a few python scripts going to do?

[03:39:16]

fukdnscerd:

idk, mythnetvision grabbers complain that it can't import MythTV bindings. not sure where else to go from here

[03:40:35]

fukdnscerd:

i can do 'import MythTV' from python

[03:41:14]

hachi:

:\

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[03:53:33]

jams:

anybody here have mythweb running with .22 and wouldn't mind checking something for me

[03:54:07]

jams:

just looking for a mouseover on the direct_download link of a program and seeing what the url is

[03:54:33]

jams:

checking to see if it's of the pattern http://hostname//mythweb or http://hostname/mythweb

[03:56:10]

russell5:

mines //mythweb but im on weekly builds

[03:56:21]

jams:

thanks thats good enough

[03:56:33]

jams:

the // is messing me up

[03:56:41]

jams:

actually it's messing lighttpd up

[03:56:53]

[R]:

sounds like a bug in lighttpd then

[03:56:57]

[R]:

/ is prefectly valid in every other server

[03:57:03]

[R]:

//

[03:58:03]

jams:

yeah i know the commit num in lighttpd that caused the problem. but should be quicker to fix it in mythweb

[03:58:41]

russell5:

damn suspend is pissing me off damn computer

[04:07:37]

Hymie:

hmmm

[04:08:35]

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[04:08:58]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: hey iamlindoro, why is it no longer possible to move from the top to the bottom of the gallery view, and from the bottom to the top? Is that a new mythui thing, or mythvideo specific? Because, if you have 1000 videos, and you start at A, and you want to go to a video starting with Y, it's much easier to just move up, ending at Z, then going to the Ys that way.. instead of moving through the whole list

[04:09:19]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: mythui thing.. its completely up to the theme

[04:09:24]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, Please stop directing questions at me

[04:09:35]

jams:

oh lighttpd can handle it..it appears to be the rewrite rules choking on it

[04:09:59]

iamlindoro:

Strongly recommend following the users list where all of this has been rehashed many times

[04:10:34]

iamlindoro:

also as it's open source feel free to perform any hacks you like on MythVideo, but the instant you do, it stops being supportable and I don't want to hear about it any more

[04:11:02]

iamlindoro:

as to opinions about scalability, as you don't know where any of our code is going, please don't speculate on how it does or should work

[04:11:07]

iamlindoro:

and now, to playstation

[04:11:10]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: uh, so.. you don't want any patches against mythvideo, to fix this slowdown??

[04:11:15]

iamlindoro:

no

[04:11:20]

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[04:11:23]

Hymie:

heh

[04:11:42]

Hymie:

"don't file bug reports, with our without code"

[04:11:44]

Hymie:

that's a new one ;)

[04:11:52]

Hymie:

or, even

[04:11:54]

iamlindoro:

It's not a bug, so reporting it would be senseless

[04:12:01]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: chances are a good portion of that code is going to be rewritten anyway due to planned changes in 0.23

[04:12:24]

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[04:12:35]

wagnerrp:

s/0.23/0.24/

[04:12:38]

[R]:

why is that always the response... "its going to be rewritten"

[04:12:39]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I'm not sure what you mean.. if you have 10k files in a local dir, on a SATA drive, scanning that dir using find takes 3+ seconds... so, it does seem to be a bug, not related to my setup

[04:12:56]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: a bug, in relation to scaling in 0.22

[04:13:06]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: ah, right, 0.23 is in freeze

[04:13:08]

Hymie:

I gues?

[04:13:18]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, and on that point we disagree, and in the end, my opinion wins since I *know* my own plans for the code

[04:14:18]

iamlindoro:

So again, feel free to do what you like with the code, but as your approach is not in line with where the code is going, I don't want you to submit a bug report or ticket that I will inevitably clsoe as invalid or wontfix

[04:14:20]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: well, sure.. I guess I'm just wondering if you're not concerned about larger libraries.. I'm not overtly surprised, as there can't be more than a hundred or so, and the typical myth user won't care about 10k video files

[04:14:58]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: but, it might be an issue as larger drives keep coming down in price.. and broadband speeds increase

[04:15:13]

wagnerrp:

as i mentioned, it works fine with my 'larger library'

[04:15:26]

iamlindoro:

As it does with my also-large library

[04:15:52]

wagnerrp:

and broadband speeds are irrelevant

[04:16:02]

wagnerrp:

as there is almost no source of freely downloadable content online

[04:16:42]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: there's tons of freely available content, but let's not get into legalities here... as a realist, users can get data if they want it

[04:16:43]

wagnerrp:

its all either encrypted, or tied behind some TOS that requires flash or silverlight

[04:16:43]

Hymie:

anyhow

[04:16:57]

iamlindoro:

or stolen

[04:17:00]

fukdnscerd:

i have a pretty big library and have not even thought twice about how long it takes to load.... its still lightning fast compared to swapping dvds isnt it??

[04:17:34]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I'm not trying to hassle you guys, are you guys using gallery view though? I can't see how it is an issue with my setup, though...

[04:17:47]

iamlindoro:

View is irrelevant

[04:17:57]

iamlindoro:

codepath the same regardless of view

[04:18:02]

slb_:

can anyone recommend me a good tuner card to purchase

[04:18:17]

wagnerrp:

slb_: what do you intend to record?

[04:18:53]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: ok, perhaps I should rephrase... do you have a suggestion that might speed things up? From what I've seen, it is tied to filesystem directory traversal time, but I could be wrong

[04:18:53]

slb_:

ideally id like to record regular tv maybe movies, hopefully in hd if possible

[04:19:09]

wagnerrp:

i mean where do you live? what is your source?

[04:19:11]

Hymie:

I'd hate to be stuck on 0.22 forever, there are indeed some nice changes in 0.23

[04:19:14]

Hymie:

and I guess 0.24

[04:19:21]

slb_:

ny, digital cable box

[04:19:23]

wagnerrp:

continent? cable? satellite? broadcast?

[04:19:40]

wagnerrp:

ok, you may be able to get some content over QAM

[04:20:04]

wagnerrp:

see the lineups at silicondust.org to check what is broadcast in the clear in your area

[04:20:13]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, youre going to have to do analog capture off your STB

[04:20:20]

wagnerrp:

and that means either an IVTV card, or an HDPVR

[04:20:34]

** Hymie just doesn't get it. I've already verified that the directory traversal speed is the issue, by removing that code, and thereby having the speed issues vanish **

[04:20:58]

Hymie:

why is it my fault? is it my fault, because I have too many files? no, you've said you don't have issues with that many files

[04:21:04]

Hymie:

so, it's a mystery then, I guess?!

[04:21:18]

slb_:

silicondust.org is the url?

[04:21:28]

wagnerrp:

.com

[04:21:39]

slb_:

sorry thanks a lot

[04:21:47]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, Let it go. It's getting irksome-- if you are happy with your fix for your edge case, then everyone can end this conversation happily

[04:21:56]

wagnerrp:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels_us to be exact

[04:22:10]

iamlindoro:

However, removing the code, or adding options is *not* an acceptable solution for your isolated case

[04:22:38]

iamlindoro:

especially in light of the move towards removing local file access and instituting Storage Group directory preferences, which will render the image hunt irrelevant

[04:22:47]

iamlindoro:

so if you're happy with your fix, then just let. it. go.

[04:22:58]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: well, if you don't want to discuss it, fine.. but the only reason I'm asking, is because I mentioned another case that is slow, and that's the initial load of mythvideo... and I can't seem tro find where the slowdown is there (note, it's a slowdown, I'm not caliming it's your code either .. ;)

[04:23:02]

slb_:

yea not many on this list

[04:23:09]

slb_:

well i guess but not many good channels

[04:23:25]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: so, my hack worked in case #2, but I don't know how ti fix case #1.. I would *really* appreciate some help...

[04:23:36]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I could send you a case of beer if that would make a diff ;)

[04:23:53]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, run oprofile, profile the code, see where it is spending it's time, and then you'll know

[04:23:57]

fukdnscerd:

Hymie: all of this will soon be irrelevant so wasting time on this issue would only be delaying the release of 0.24 that much more

[04:24:13]

iamlindoro:

but nobody has *ever* complained that mythvideo initialization is slow, so again I suspect a corner case

[04:24:28]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: there was the one guy doing browse mode over samba

[04:24:33]

fukdnscerd:

maybe your hard drive is going bad?

[04:24:35]

wagnerrp:

(another corner case)

[04:24:38]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: is fukdnscerd correct, in that I should not run that profile software, and try to track thi sdown.. because 0.24 is that changed?

[04:25:04]

** Hymie heard 0.24 is coming out soon anyhow? **

[04:25:19]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I can go back to 0.22, then see if this case still occurs with 0.24 after it's out

[04:25:19]

wagnerrp:

0.23 should be out within a few weeks

[04:25:28]

wagnerrp:

0.24 should be out in several months

[04:25:30]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: or, if trunk is stable enough, I could try it now...

[04:25:36]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: do you want me to try it now, just to see?

[04:25:43]

iamlindoro:

No

[04:26:05]

iamlindoro:

Nothing in .23 (.24 isn't even under development) is substantially changed in terms of MythVideo initialization, in any way

[04:26:12]

Hymie:

hmm, ok

[04:26:14]

iamlindoro:

nor has image hunt changed

[04:26:32]

Hymie:

ok, good... let me try a few things then, including the profile business.. and get back to you guys

[04:27:04]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: btw, thanks.. I can trell this has been trying for you ;)

[04:27:11]

iamlindoro:

Moreso by the minute

[04:27:15]

Hymie:

heh

[04:29:31]

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[04:55:41]

dougt:

anyone have a pointer to the src of test-mpeg2?

[04:56:02]

wagnerrp:

what is 'test-mpeg2'?

[04:56:13]

dougt:

some firewire tool

[04:56:20]

dougt:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/FireWire#Test-mpeg2

[04:56:31]

dougt:

it isn't in the 0.22 release.

[04:58:48]

wagnerrp:

apparently from 'libiec61883', as mentioned on the page

[05:00:03]

dougt:

when I find it, i'll update the page. :-)

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[05:31:40]

dougt:

i added the instructions to the discussion part of the wiki page.

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[06:22:34]

slb_:

what kind of recording can be done through firewire from the cablebox?

[06:22:47]

wagnerrp:

what do you mean?

[06:22:57]

slb_:

what are the limitations

[06:23:26]

wagnerrp:

whether your cableco encrypts everything

[06:23:47]

slb_:

that silicondust site says what channels done?

[06:23:49]

slb_:

dont*?

[06:23:54]

wagnerrp:

no

[06:24:36]

wagnerrp:

silicon dust lists what channels are encrypted by the cableco

[06:24:42]

slb_:

ohh

[06:24:45]

slb_:

theres no many at all

[06:24:52]

wagnerrp:

while firewire is something different

[06:25:03]

wagnerrp:

your cableco can flag a recording 'copy once' or 'copy never'

[06:25:11]

slb_:

would i be able to pause/play live tv with it

[06:25:23]

wagnerrp:

at which point your cable box will encrypt the content

[06:25:29]

wagnerrp:

coming out of the firewire port

[06:26:47]

slb_:

im only asking as its a cheaper solution than buying a tuner but i will still probably purchase a tuner

[06:27:49]

wagnerrp:

firewire is as restricted as qam

[06:27:54]

wagnerrp:

you may get lucky and get a lot

[06:28:00]

wagnerrp:

but... generally you wont

[06:28:07]

slb_:

i see

[06:28:15]

wagnerrp:

at the very least, its usually easier than using an ir blaster to change channels

[06:28:26]

wagnerrp:

amd ,pre re;oan;e

[06:28:35]

wagnerrp:

and more reliable

[06:28:37]

slb_:

and one would want to do that so everything is centralized from the media center right

[06:29:06]

slb_:

i guess im just trying to understand the purpose if its really limited

[06:29:30]

wagnerrp:

its only limited because myth doesnt speak 5C

[06:29:44]

wagnerrp:

if myth were able to perform the handshake

[06:29:51]

wagnerrp:

and decrypt the content, it would work great

[06:29:55]

wagnerrp:

same with cablecard and QAM

[06:29:59]

wagnerrp:

but it cant....

[06:30:11]

wagnerrp:

so the only real solution left is analog capture off the STB

[06:30:21]

wagnerrp:

you need a way to control the STB, change channels on it

[06:30:35]

slb_:

so basically if i want to play/pause live tv and record my best bet is a tuner

[06:30:38]

wagnerrp:

and generally firewire is more reliable for doing that than using an IR blaster

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[09:20:27]

ali1234:

what must i do if the ip address of my backend changes?

[09:23:57]

clever:

change the backend ip and master backend ip in mythtv-setup

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[09:27:53]

ali1234:

thanks :)

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[10:06:17]

kmdm:

Morning all :) Last night I migrated a combined FE/MBE to a SBE/FE + MBE ... now my rip/transcode dialog is missing the "Good" quality setting – what did I break? ;-) (seems it won't offer the setting which actually uses transcode)

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[10:49:44]

justinh:

kmdm: hmm didn't read my replies yesterday then huh? nevermind

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[10:53:09]

justinh:

kmdm: point being, you don't *migrate* a system like that. you *add* a slave backend maybe. unless you move the DB & files to another machine. that'd be a migration. And it's hard not to screw that up

[10:53:37]

justinh:

so without knowing precisely how you did it it's hard to say what you might have done to break it

[10:53:49]

justinh:

i.e. as per bloody usual.. MORE INFO

[11:06:42]

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[11:14:28]

kmdm:

justinh: no, sorry, i scrolled up but the replies would have been just out of my buffer in irssi :(

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[11:16:10]

kmdm:

justinh: in any event, after a restart or two it's re-appeared so all is good :) And by migrate i mean... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/357791 (mtdean's reply)

[11:16:57]

justinh:

ah so a true migration as in moving to a new machine

[11:17:11]

justinh:

adding the slave backend is kind of moot then

[11:17:51]

kmdm:

yea, moved the MBE to a new machine and reconfigured the old MBE/FE combined one to SBE/FE :)

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[11:38:03]

k-man:

for some reason i'm getting emtpy files for channel 10 and OneHD on my hdhomerun, howerver hdhr can receive those channels fine

[11:38:56]

k-man:

how do i work out why its failing?

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[12:36:40]

justinh:

whah? a BD player review is saying that the time taken from inserting a disc to something appearing on the screen is 2 minutes, half the speed of the fastest player they've reviewed. The FASTEST player takes a minute to start playing?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[12:37:17]

sid3windr:

yeah

[12:37:19]

sid3windr:

I read that too

[12:37:21]

justinh:

and this isn't even including the compulsory crap they put on discs before you get to the film

[12:37:27]

sid3windr:

"only takes 3 minutes cold start to the bluray menu"

[12:37:33]

sid3windr:

like wut

[12:37:40]

justinh:

that's astonishingly bad

[12:39:07]

clever:

justinh: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/pirate_dvd.jpg

[12:39:14]

justinh:

how is anybody putting up with that?!

[12:39:37]

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[12:39:53]

wagnerrp:

justinh: my PS3 doesnt take anything like that long to start playback

[12:40:17]

justinh:

wouldn't think it did

[12:40:21]

justinh:

wouldn't think *any* player would

[12:40:38]

justinh:

how are consumers letting these bozos get away with it?

[12:43:48]

[Peter]:

wagnerrp: I just wish my PS3 would be more silent, otherwise it kicks the crap out of any other stand-alone bluray player I've seen

[12:43:49]

justinh:

clever: LOL I like that

[12:44:03]

clever:

its so true

[12:44:20]

clever:

even without ripping, i can get instant movies on linux

[12:44:25]

justinh:

I'm deadly serious though.. how are people falling for it? even 60 secs is unthinkable

[12:44:42]

justinh:

forget the navigation part.. this is time to something appearing onscreen

[12:44:52]

Dibblah:

Simple solution to blu-rays. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/220V-CO2-Laser-Engravin . . . em23057c0f6a

[12:45:03]

Dibblah:

Convert them into artwork.

[12:45:11]

[Peter]:

justinh: my guess is that PS3 has a very large portion of the bluray player market

[12:45:16]

clever:

Dibblah: a microwave should do just as well

[12:45:28]

Dibblah:

Not even nearly as prettyly.

[12:45:47]

justinh:

heh another ebay seller who should be removed from the gene pool. Comic sans users must die!

[12:46:01]

clever:

sure, your link could engrave 'blu-ray sucks' into every disk!

[12:46:24]

** Dibblah wants one :( **

[12:46:33]

justinh:

honestly though... it's 2010. We shouldn't have to be waiting for anything to 'load'. jesus

[12:46:54]

clever:

Dibblah: ive seen stuff online where they take the laser out of a dvd burner or blu-ray reader and make a insanely powerfull laser pointer

[12:47:01]

wagnerrp:

[Peter]: is that because every other processor is stuck running all sorts of code on a crappy embedded processor, in a slow java VM

[12:47:06]

clever:

with an x/y machine, you could convert that to an engraver

[12:47:08]

wagnerrp:

while the PS3 actually has some meat to it?

[12:47:15]

Dibblah:

500mW is not insanely powerful. And no, you couldn't.

[12:47:32]

clever:

justinh: even back before the 80's, the c64 was practicaly instant on

[12:47:32]

[Peter]:

justinh: heh, things are going the other way, there are now car stereos that takes up to a minute to "boot"

[12:47:53]

justinh:

wagnerrp: so they don't even put decent CPUs in these ££££ players? :-(

[12:48:11]

clever:

but considering how it lacks config, they could hard-code all the init routines to become just a giant memcpy;jmp, to init the thing in 2 lines of code

[12:48:39]

justinh:

sounds to me like they need to start again

[12:49:34]

Dibblah:

clever: No. You couldn't. For a number of not so good DRM reasons.

[12:49:51]

clever:

Dibblah: yeah not posible on a any kind of video player

[12:49:58]

clever:

Dibblah: i mean for the original c64

[12:50:38]

justinh:

and what gets me is, til now I've avoided reading this kind of review but I thought "okay, let's see then". And the reviewers aren't ranting about how stupid it is that it takes so long. WHY?

[12:51:05]

justinh:

[Peter]: that'd be Windows CE at work ;)

[12:52:28]

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[12:56:38]

justinh:

heh forum users "Personally I don't mind, it's worth the wait for the kick-ass PQ". Sold, to the idiot in the foam hat

[12:58:20]

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[12:58:54]

justinh:

huh – the fastest standalone player according to a ZDnet test... 41 secs. Even that's bordering on stupid

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[13:15:16]

jolaren_:

I can't get lock on my free channels

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[13:30:18]

justinh:

I can't get a lock on my free channels & I'm not prepared to wait a few minutes for a response :-\

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[13:39:25]

jolaren:

I can't get chnanel lock on some of my free channels

[13:39:28]

jolaren:

I don't understand why

[13:39:32]

jolaren:

I've done a total shutdown etc

[13:39:34]

jolaren:

But still it wont lock

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[14:16:48]

fukdnscerd:

anyone else had issues with installing perl modules. Trying to install the Date::Manip module and it can't seem to connect to any of the servers

[14:16:56]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: hey dude.. have you heard of a bug in QT where isDir returnes\

[14:17:16]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: er, returns true for symlinks to files, over nfs??

[14:17:21]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: cant say i have

[14:17:34]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: Date::Manip does not connect to servers

[14:18:07]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: hmm, this seems to be happening here... interesting...

[14:18:14]

wagnerrp:

if youre downloading from CPAN, theyre online currently

[14:18:27]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: sounds like a problem with your package manager, or distro's repositories

[14:18:41]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: maybe that SMB case you were talking about, existed because the user had a lot of symlinks, as I do.. and isDir returned the wrong response... I'm looking into it..

[14:19:04]

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[14:19:07]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: samba traditionally does not support symlinks

[14:19:30]

wagnerrp:

you have to have special extensions, which would not work in his case since he was running a windows server

[14:19:38]

fukdnscerd:

as per the FAQ at cpan i did: perl -MCPAN -e 'install Date::Manip' and it failed on all servers

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[14:21:47]

fukdnscerd:

nvm i found a package in ubuntu repo

[14:21:48]

wagnerrp:

on ubuntu, you should probably be using your package manager anyway

[14:22:11]

fukdnscerd:

your right, i wasnt aware it was available through repo

[14:22:14]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: I'm not sure why you say samba doesn't traditionally support symlinks.. options (for example) like 'follow symlinks' are even on by default.. but regardless...

[14:23:09]

wagnerrp:

Hymie: if you use 'follow symlinks' in your samba config... that tells the samba server to resolve links locally

[14:23:27]

wagnerrp:

rather SMB/CIFS does not traditionally support symlinks

[14:23:50]

wagnerrp:

and last i checked, the kernel modules for those are not compiled with the 'unix extensions' to enable symlinks by default

[14:24:22]

wagnerrp:

as opposed to NFS, which simply transmits the symlink unaltered, and lets the client resolve it

[14:25:02]

Hymie:

yeah, I agree about NFS.. I don't have a samba share here to validate what you're saying, and it doesn't jive with my memory on the subject, but I'll defer on that for now

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[14:25:18]

Hymie:

so, probably not a shared issue, hmm

[14:25:24]

Hymie:

ok, back to work then

[14:25:34]

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[14:26:55]

wagnerrp:

according to the qt docs, isDir will return true if it is a symlink to a directory

[14:27:01]

wagnerrp:

but i see no mention of any such bugs

[14:27:03]

antlarr:

hi, is it possible to use mythtv with sqlite instead of mysql?

[14:27:29]

wagnerrp:

antlarr: sqlite does not have the capacity needed to run the scheduler code

[14:27:56]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: yeah, I don't either.. but, when I strace mythfrontend, I can clearly see it looking for filename.avi/VIDEO_TS

[14:28:01]

wagnerrp:

however there has been consideration of moving to embedded mysql, or some other more internally manageable database

[14:28:04]

Hymie:

and filename.avi is definitely a symlink to a file

[14:28:05]

antlarr:

wagnerrp: ah, ok

[14:28:43]

antlarr:

wagnerrp: I guess I'll move the mysql database to a faster machine then

[14:28:58]

wagnerrp:

antlarr: what is it currently running on?

[14:29:03]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: and when I comment out the code in dirscan.cpp, all is well.. so, I can see where it is coming form, and isDir is used...

[14:29:09]

Beirdo:

Ugh, blah

[14:29:10]

antlarr:

wagnerrp: an atom n330

[14:29:11]

Beirdo:

sleep time

[14:29:29]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: you take the red eye?

[14:29:32]

antlarr:

wagnerrp: it's dropping too many frames when using HDTV

[14:29:39]

Beirdo:

wagnerrp: you bet :)

[14:29:57]

wagnerrp:

antlarr: chances are you just chose an inadequate processor for decoding HDTV

[14:29:57]

antlarr:

and I'm trying to optimize it a bit

[14:30:02]

wagnerrp:

rather than anything to do with database performance

[14:30:17]

wagnerrp:

the scheduler is the only real intensive bit of SQL mythtv does

[14:30:28]

wagnerrp:

recording and playback is only going to manage a couple queries a second

[14:30:43]

wagnerrp:

a couple milliseconds of CPU time at the most

[14:30:56]

wagnerrp:

and even that is only really used for managing the seek table

[14:31:04]

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[14:31:06]

wagnerrp:

so unless youre seeking, it doesnt need

[14:31:07]

antlarr:

the system has an nvidia gpu (ion chipset), and using vdpau it can decode 720p without problems

[14:31:18]

wagnerrp:

antlarr: then turn on VDPAU, and all is well

[14:32:04]

antlarr:

I turned it on, and it can decode hdtv, but it's still dropping frames each now and then

[14:32:41]

wagnerrp:

are you sure its not just corrupted frames? from a bad digital capture?

[14:32:56]

antlarr:

hmmmm, good point

[14:33:09]

wagnerrp:

check your frontend logs to see if it is complaining about something

[14:34:02]

Hymie:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/hd_gallery/ . . . 20080210.mov

[14:34:13]

Hymie:

antlarr: that's a good test for 1080p

[14:34:24]

Hymie:

antlarr: and, it shouldn't be corrupt, unless you have other issues

[14:34:25]

wagnerrp:

nothing apple has is a good test for 1080p

[14:34:31]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: heh

[14:34:46]

wagnerrp:

its going to be relatively low bitrate (as compared to bluray or something)

[14:34:48]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: it works well here, and VDPAU takes it from not-playable to 3% CPU

[14:34:51]

wagnerrp:

and is going to be CAVLC

[14:35:04]

antlarr:

Hymie: with an atom ?

[14:35:31]

wagnerrp:

which is both far easier, and considerably under-performing, compared to CABAC which the entire rest of the industry uses

[14:35:35]

Hymie:

wagnerrp: well, regardless, it's a freely available file that VDPAU can be used with...

[14:37:49]

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[14:38:32]

Computer_Czar:

Anyone out of curiousity I have a WinTV PVR2 running with mythtv and my sattelite box connected through the RF connection. I have video and I'm watching TV so no problem there. I'm trying to figure out the best way to handle channels. What is the best use for the guide in mythtv given everything comes in on channel 4? Can I utilize mythfilldatabase to properly get and fill a channel guide even if I don't tune with it??

[14:39:00]

wagnerrp:

Computer_Czar: any reason why you cant connect it to the svideo port?

[14:39:36]

wagnerrp:

svideo, or even composite, is going to provide noticeably better video quality than RF

[14:39:36]

Computer_Czar:

wagnerrp: I guess I can ... right now I have that connected to my slingbox ...

[14:40:06]

Computer_Czar:

wagnerrp: If I do that ... how do I handle channel guide information?

[14:40:15]

wagnerrp:

when you set up mythtv with an external tuner, you are supposed to give it an external channel changer script

[14:40:18]

Computer_Czar:

wagnerrp: Just import it

[14:40:23]

Computer_Czar:

?

[14:40:30]

Computer_Czar:

wagnerrp: Ok

[14:40:33]

wagnerrp:

which changes the channels on the STB either through serial, IR, firewire, whatever....

[14:40:52]

Computer_Czar:

wagnerrp: Thanks I need to do some research

[14:41:04]

wagnerrp:

for your current RF input, you would then set the tuner to 'pre-tune' to channel 4

[14:41:13]

wagnerrp:

and then you would just add your lineup as normal

[14:42:06]

wagnerrp:

since youre in the US, you would set up an account with schedulesdirect, and just directly pull a lineup and channel guide

[14:42:18]

Computer_Czar:

Yes that makes sense ...

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[14:56:30]

russell5:

i keep getting these in my backend logs does nayone know anyting about the error Preview Error: Run() file not local: '/var/lib/mythtv/recordings/1063_20100218110000.nuv.64'

[14:57:47]

fukdnscerd:

does mythmusic utilize storage groups? or do you still have to use nfs for that?

[15:01:36]

fukdnscerd:

i see no storage group for music, but i do have the option to create one. Is there a way to tell mythmusic to use the storage group i create instead of local fs or is this something that isnt implemented yet?

[15:03:34]

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[15:03:51]

wagnerrp:

mythmusic does not yet use storage groups

[15:03:57]

wagnerrp:

that is one of the planned changes for 0.24

[15:06:38]

fukdnscerd:

ok.. What is the use for being able to create a storage group? I mean arent the different mythplugins locked into their respective storage groups or is this a way to help organize video libraries and such/

[15:06:39]

fukdnscerd:

?

[15:08:14]

iamlindoro:

There is no option to create a music storge group

[15:08:21]

wagnerrp:

storage groups allow the backend to manage storage, rather than the frontend

[15:09:08]

fukdnscerd:

i understand... i just seen the menu item to "Create New Storage Group" just wondering how i would go about utilizing a storage group that I create

[15:09:24]

iamlindoro:

Those would be used for recordings

[15:09:24]

wagnerrp:

that allows you to create alternate storage groups for recordings

[15:09:36]

wagnerrp:

you can have certain recordings on certain disks

[15:09:53]

wagnerrp:

mythvideo's storage groups are all static

[15:10:13]

wagnerrp:

as will be mythmusic's, mythgallery's, and any other plugin that may use them in the future

[15:11:20]

fukdnscerd:

ok i see, have the devs thought about allowing us to customize storage groups for these things or has it just been deemed unnecessary.

[15:11:56]

wagnerrp:

not really sure what it would get you, to be honest

[15:13:40]

fukdnscerd:

ic

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[15:47:08]

artus36:

Hi all

[15:47:17]

artus36:

Good day

[15:52:37]

artus36:

somebody using 0.23 ?

[15:53:10]

wagnerrp:

s/0.23/trunk/

[15:53:13]

justinh:

nobody is using 0.23

[15:53:36]

justinh:

and don't rant about your package manager calling it 0.23 because any packager calling it 0.23 is wrong :)

[15:53:57]

artus36:

sorry you are right

[15:53:58]

russell5:

im usung weekly builds for mythbuntu what ever version that is

[15:54:13]

artus36:

I am using mythdora 12.23 b6

[15:55:14]

iamlindoro:

Since you are using trunk, it is your responsibility to be following the development and commit mailing lists-- in which case you should know that pulseaudio output is not expected to be in sync

[15:55:30]

iamlindoro:

it is purely experimental at this point and shoudl only be used by those working on patches to improve audio sync

[15:55:44]

artus36:

ok

[15:56:01]

wagnerrp:

of course the same holds true for all versions of mythtv

[15:56:22]

artus36:

anybody using alsa with hdmi?

[15:56:22]

iamlindoro:

well, except trunk actually *does* have pulseaudio output code

[15:56:52]

iamlindoro:

it's just that daniel made it very clear when he commited it that it was *not* a supported output yet and encouraged people to submit patches to improve audio sync

[15:56:56]

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[15:57:17]

artus36:

I am struggeling to get alsa work in general

[15:57:20]

wagnerrp:

ah, i didnt actually know when that had made it in

[15:57:22]

iamlindoro:

there's at least once waiting for review in trac

[15:57:27]

iamlindoro:

er one

[15:57:33]

wagnerrp:

difference between released blurs when youre using trunk

[15:57:39]

artus36:

with my mythdora 12.23 b6

[15:58:08]

iamlindoro:

Mythdora devs may be better equipped to help you with that

[15:58:31]

iamlindoro:

though if they left pulse installed, I question the judgment

[15:58:53]

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[15:59:34]

iamlindoro:

j-rod, Any comment on that? Mythdora including pulse?

[15:59:42]

iamlindoro:

seems like a BadThing (tm)

[16:00:09]

justinh:

pulseaudio should get a new logo, one using a cursive font. that way the l and s in 'pulse' become the letter 'b'

[16:00:43]

fukdnscerd:

lmao

[16:01:01]

wagnerrp:

pube? i dont get it

[16:01:11]

wagnerrp:

are you saying any system using it is 'hairy'?

[16:02:34]

iamlindoro:

paul-h, nice work actually making some progress on our .23 tickets :)

[16:02:43]

artus36:

iamlindoro: mythtv 0.23 (trunk) has pulseaudio included in the settings menu

[16:02:56]

iamlindoro:

artus36, So?

[16:03:06]

iamlindoro:

artus36, Like I said, not *supported*

[16:03:13]

artus36:

fine

[16:03:39]

iamlindoro:

It really is critical if you are using trunk to be following the dev and commit lists

[16:04:09]

iamlindoro:

it saves the user a lot of misunderstanding and us a lot of answering the same questions (and frustration because we get to interpret the lists for people who are unwilling to follow it)

[16:15:34]

kormoc:

artus36: in short, it's broken, will be for awhile, and shouldn't be used unless you're gonna fix it

[16:18:54]

gbee:

pulseaudio only works with a limited subset of the ALSA api, something unlikely to change apparently, as a result all applications need to rewrite their audio code to suit pulseaudio ... which is backwards but apparently unavoidable once Ubuntu etc backed pulseaudio even when it was broken/incomplete

[16:19:30]

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[16:22:18]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: ok, I've done loads of testing here, at this end. I've setup myth directly on my box with my raid in it. Once done, load time for mythvideo is approximately 1–2s. Not that bad. However, if I have any sort of other filesystem activity happening, that's it.. it's done for. For a test, I cp -a DIR_WITH_10_VIDEOS/ HMM and load time went from 1–2s, to 30+ seconds. I then did the same action twice, so that two concurrent copy operations were happen

[16:22:18]

Hymie:

ing at th esame time, and MV load time shot up to over 1 1/2 minutes. Now, I realise that you are moving in a certain way, but if I user with a large library, can't have a file copy operation occuring without making mythvideo effecively useless... perhaps you might accept patches to turn off some of that functionality?

[16:24:14]

kormoc:

Hymie: no, as future storage group changes will 'fix' it and given we're migrating to 100% storage groups, it won't be an issue

[16:24:17]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: yes, I do realise I could monkey with which elevator I am using, but the 1 1/2 minute load time is fairly extreme, I don't believe any change of elevator will help that

[16:24:48]

Hymie:

kormoc: er.. last night iamlindoro said that future versions would not change that behaviour

[16:24:59]

iamlindoro:

No, I said that trunk *does not* change the behavior

[16:25:05]

Hymie:

heh

[16:25:06]

iamlindoro:

and no, I don't want patches that add more options

[16:25:39]

fukdnscerd:

I have never had a prob with that, I have copied videos to/from other machines while browsing and watching video.

[16:25:59]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: it all depend on how good or bad your io system is setup

[16:26:15]

iamlindoro:

fukdnscerd, He has a performance problem that he wants me to add/remove/disable mythvideo code to solve

[16:26:26]

iamlindoro:

I don't know how many times I can say that I am not willing to consider that

[16:26:50]

Hymie:

wow — this isn't a local performance issue, it's just a large collection, that's all, hands down, period

[16:26:51]

Hymie:

heh

[16:27:08]

Hymie:

I can accept that things are changing, I can accept that the problem will go away — so why look at it in this case, since all the code will change

[16:27:14]

kormoc:

My collection is about twice as deep as yours and over nfs, It takes about 5–8 seconds

[16:27:18]

Hymie:

but you spew statement that it's a local case, is just silly

[16:27:48]

Hymie:

kormoc: when doing a cp -a of large files, at the same time? and, you have 10k video files, with 200+ directories?

[16:28:28]

fukdnscerd:

I just don,t think that its a myth problem. I am a bit behind the times, and even using ata/66 hard drives with old pentium mobo and less than 500MB ram and I have never experienced this, and my large library is nothing new

[16:28:28]

kormoc:

I happen to have a pile of music videos (~ 16k) in about 500 dirs deep

[16:28:49]

kormoc:

tuned nfs v3 over 802.11N

[16:29:04]

kormoc:

and yes, even with file copy operations, it still has plenty of io to do the checks

[16:29:30]

gbee:

stick with me, but how does the filesystem on which the videos reside impact mythvideo load times?

[16:29:39]

Hymie:

well, heh. This is on a fresh debian machine, with myth installed, and an ext3 filesystem mounted

[16:30:07]

gbee:

given we're reading the file info from the database, not the filesystem

[16:30:13]

kormoc:

gbee: We do a deep scan for cover files, so if file existence checks take awhile, it can eat up time with lots of directorys to scan

[16:30:30]

iamlindoro:

gbee, He believes he is seeing performance hits in the image hunt, but the extreme load times he is reporting contrasted with everyone else's times under similar conditions indicate a deeper performance problem

[16:30:54]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: way to make determinations like Toyota, iamlindoro

[16:31:06]

iamlindoro:

But given we're in like hour four of the same conversation where I keep explaining the same things, I'm about done with it

[16:31:17]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: empirical evidence is best... and there's a case right here that differs from your belief

[16:31:30]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I moved to an entirely different configuration, reinstalled myth

[16:31:31]

kormoc:

Hymie: and there's plenty of other cases that claim otherwise

[16:31:36]

iamlindoro:

and the pushy attitudes doesn't help

[16:31:50]

kormoc:

Hymie: and given your previous statement that 3 seconds is too long...

[16:32:09]

Hymie:

pushy attitude? when you tell me "you're wrong", and I'm not — and I say so, that's not being pushy, that's stating the truth

[16:32:42]

fukdnscerd:

i have had hard drives and controllers go bad and didn't show any indication aside from performance issues untill it finally went.

[16:32:43]

kormoc:

Hymie: no one said you were wrong about having performance issues, we're just saying you're the only one, even among others with similar libraries

[16:33:07]

Hymie:

pushy is "fix it, >I demand it!".. I'm asking to debug it, and get help from the other side — or, to let me try to address it... however, everyone here is just ignoring the problem

[16:33:13]

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[16:33:14]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, From moment one, you arrived and contradicted me on how the most basic elements of MythVideo work... code that I wrote... and then are proven wrong again and again... it's doesn't endear you to me.

[16:33:24]

iamlindoro:

s/it's/it/

[16:33:46]

kormoc:

Hymie: again, you haven't debugged it, you haven't profiled it to see where the time is being spent to debug it more.

[16:34:28]

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[16:34:32]

iamlindoro:

and it's *still* perfectly valid to conclude that when kormoc, with 16k files and hundreds of directories via wireless doesn't have an issue, that a statement that MythVideo can't scale to 10k files is a false one

[16:34:43]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: listen, some of what we discuss were semantic issues, ok? when I came in here, clearly changes had been made to mythvideo... and ones that impacted my usage versus 0.22. When I say things like 'this is a lot slower', and people say there are no changes, I have to response. When you clarified your statements to me, I was still in a state of disbelief, but I accepted it

[16:34:54]

gbee:

no-one is ignoring it, I tend to agree that there is definite room for improvement in the way the image hunts appear to work, but it's worth looking at the differences between your setup and others so we can understand just what changes are really going to make the difference

[16:35:34]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I sincerely hope you aren't the sort of person that takes offense, when someone doesn't believe everything someone tells them, instantly.. you don't seem that sort

[16:36:16]

fukdnscerd:

Hymie: since your switching to trunk have you tried switching back to ensure it isnt a hardware issue which arose during/after your upgrade

[16:36:18]

kormoc:

Yup, I'm just lying!

[16:36:25]

Hymie:

kormoc: I have debugged it, in that I entirely eliminated NFS from the equation. It eliminates any possible network issues due to my switch, machines, nics, etc as a problem...

[16:36:39]

kormoc:

Hymie: doesn't mean it's not a filesystem issue

[16:37:13]

Hymie:

kormoc: sure, by my point is, I *am* debugging it... simply because I go about it differently than you do, is no reason to scoff and claim I am not debugging things at all..

[16:37:29]

kormoc:

Hymie: and your ls -R's don't match the use case, as they use filesystem caches vs the absolute cache miss for nonexistent files

[16:37:45]

Hymie:

I've verified that it isn't nfs, nics, the raid in question, the specific drives I'm using, any part of the hardware, since I'm on a different box, the OS in question, etc

[16:37:51]

iamlindoro:

You say that locally, with nothing else accessing the filesystem, it loads in a second or two-- and if your filesystem is busy, it rises to much much longer-- if that's not an indication of a local configuration/performance issue, I can't imagine what would be

[16:38:06]

kormoc:

Hymie: when you'er not debugging it in a way that will help yet claim that your tests are enough to prove something's systematically wrong...

[16:39:13]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: if you cp -a to large dirs, as I've suggested, you will see a time difference in even an ls -R of /etc... it's just that it is so minor it is not worth noting. However, when you get to a lot of depth / files...

[16:39:20]

fukdnscerd:

Hymie: you have gauranteed its not a hardware issue by comletely changine the hardware?? ie, hard drives and controllers, mobo, cpu, ram, etc.

[16:39:27]

kormoc:

it majorly depends on your io subststem

[16:39:33]

Hymie:

fukdnscerd: it's a whole different machine

[16:39:50]

fukdnscerd:

hard drives?

[16:39:54]

fukdnscerd:

controllers?

[16:40:00]

kormoc:

What raid level?

[16:40:22]

Hymie:

kormoc: ok, look.. I'll be happy to do it your way.. do you have any precise tests you want done? I am more than happy to do them.. and come back with results.. clearly I'm willing to invest time here, since I've spent hours on this so far.. I'm not afraid to roll my sleeves up

[16:40:31]

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[16:40:40]

Hymie:

kormoc: it's a raid5

[16:41:08]

Hymie:

fukdnscerd: yes, different drives and controller — same brand drives and controller, though

[16:41:10]

kormoc:

So you are surprised that you have issues when you picked a raid level designed for single io thread activity?

[16:41:24]

Hymie:

kormoc: unlike a single drive then, I suppose

[16:41:24]

kormoc:

That right there is enough to explain why it's slower with multiple io threads going

[16:41:37]

kormoc:

nope, single drive would show the same issue under heavy activity

[16:41:40]

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[16:41:46]

Hymie:

kormoc: that was my point

[16:42:20]

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[16:42:24]

Hymie:

kormoc: 2TB drives are cheap.. it's not hard to duplicate the sort of tree I have, if you're storing TV episdoes instead of movies

[16:42:37]

kormoc:

so you picked a setup that is optimized to a single io thread and get upset when multiple threads slow things down and want us to fix it?

[16:43:08]

kormoc:

most people don't care if it takes longer while under heavy load, as they don't put it under heavy load often

[16:43:13]

Hymie:

kormoc: I'd say, so you picked a methodology to scan the video folder, so that no other IO can happen on a single drive, and you wonder why users are having issues?

[16:43:29]

kormoc:

it's not that no other io can happen

[16:43:29]

iamlindoro:

s/users/user/

[16:43:30]

fukdnscerd:

s/users/user

[16:43:35]

kormoc:

it's when the io is full

[16:43:35]

Hymie:

kormoc: under 0.22, there was never an issue.. again, I know this is a path to a goal, and that storage groups are coming down the pipe

[16:43:41]

** kormoc sighs **

[16:43:43]

Hymie:

but, what about how storage groups will function

[16:43:44]

iamlindoro:

You are *on* .22

[16:44:01]

iamlindoro:

trunk will become .23...

[16:44:07]

whateva:

Why is my myth telling me that my HD is a read only file system?

[16:44:12]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: yes, sorry, 22-fixes

[16:44:22]

kormoc:

whateva: myth won't, perhaps your distro is?

[16:44:32]

whateva:

it worked until about midweek

[16:44:38]

wagnerrp:

whateva: is your disk mounted read-only? possibly because it was not unmounted cleanly and needs to be fsck'd?

[16:44:53]

whateva:

I did fsck

[16:44:57]

whateva:

I'll reboot

[16:45:17]

Hymie:

kormoc / iamlindoro: there is a reason that myth doesn't scan the whole directory tree, and parse files for IMDB data and such.. there's a reason that myth uses a database right now, for much of the data

[16:45:36]

kormoc:

Hymie: thanks for the history lession

[16:45:47]

kormoc:

I'm new to myth and I don't understand basic concepts

[16:45:50]

kormoc:

I'm learning so much!

[16:45:59]

iamlindoro:

Myth *doesn't* parse filenames for IMDB data...

[16:46:05]

Hymie:

kormoc: well, you're the guy claiming that there's no reason not to scan a while filetree, not me

[16:46:22]

whateva:

ok now it's running filesystem checks on reboot

[16:46:23]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: yeah, I know, >I think you misread above

[16:46:31]

iamlindoro:

"and parse files for IMDB data and such.."

[16:46:43]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I was speaking to why you don't do it

[16:46:55]

kormoc:

Hymie: I'm saying the choices you made for your setup limied your ability to do concurrent IO and that's not a problem myth should solve if concurrent io is important to you

[16:47:21]

iamlindoro:

We do parse filenames on the scan into the databse... we just don't attempt to pull in IMDb data as part of that parsing, as that isn't a naming scheme anyone actually *uses*

[16:47:31]

iamlindoro:

but I suppose we should add more code for that because you do

[16:47:45]

fukdnscerd:

iamlindoro: is there any plans to implement playlists in mythvideo

[16:47:46]

kormoc:

Hymie: At this point in time, there's no reason not to do the deep scan, as the majority of people rarely are doing heavy io often enough to cause issues with lead times

[16:48:03]

iamlindoro:

fukdnscerd, yes, once the recording and video database structures are unified/merged, it should be doable

[16:48:03]

kormoc:

and there's a fix in the future

[16:48:14]

fukdnscerd:

sweet

[16:48:20]

whateva:

still no live tv

[16:48:28]

Hymie:

iamlindoro: I'm not sure what you're on about... at no point did I say you scan IMDB data at file load, or that you were, or did, or will, or should

[16:48:34]

iamlindoro:

fukdnscerd, Which is not to say that it's not doable now, just that it'd be ugly and I'd prefer not to do the same work twice

[16:49:43]

Hymie:

kormoc: again, the fix in the future is great — I can hack the code I have here, or move back to 0.21, or what not — if I'm the only guy, that's great. However, you're moving on to storage groups, and you guys might move to more in depth scanning when that's enabled, an it could cause other users to exhibit more of the issues that I'm experiencing...

[16:50:03]

iamlindoro:

Hymie, Look, It's obvious you're not going to get what you want here, so let's all just stop aggravating one another-- nothing you are doing or saying is endearing you to me, we clearly differ on whether your particular setup is the root of the issue, and that's just not going to change

[16:50:05]

kormoc:

Storage groups already exist

[16:50:12]

fukdnscerd:

iamlindoro: I can be patient

[16:50:25]

kormoc:

And so far, being how many months after release, you're the first one to complain should say something...

[16:50:25]

iamlindoro:

so let's all just let it go, you can use your hack and be happy, I can get back to doing worthwhile work, and harmony can return to the channel

[16:50:26]

Hymie:

you know, if you guys think this is all sunshine and candy apples for me, you're wrong.. I'm trying to actively help

[16:51:19]

Hymie:

ok, well.. if that's what you guys want, no worries...

[16:52:29]

whateva:

ok, if mplayer /dev/video0 gives me nothing and mplayer /dev/video1 gives me video/audio, is there anything I can do to see what's wrong with the tuner on video0

[16:52:42]

whateva:

they're the same make and model

[16:53:00]

wagnerrp:

whateva: gives you nothing? or gives you a blank screen?

[16:53:05]

whateva:

no screen

[16:53:30]

wagnerrp:

do you have a webcam or something that could have been reordered into video0?

[16:53:34]

whateva:

no

[16:53:46]

whateva:

what would cause reordering

[16:54:01]

wagnerrp:

the fact that there is nothing to actually maintain the ordering

[16:54:27]

wagnerrp:

theyre numbered as things load and are enumerated

[16:54:33]

whateva:

well there's no video2

[16:54:48]

whateva:

so where did the tuner at video0 go

[16:54:58]

wagnerrp:

check dmesg to see if there were any errors during driver loading

[16:55:09]

whateva:

looking at it already

[16:55:17]

whateva:

but I don't know what to look for

[16:55:26]

wagnerrp:

what cards?

[16:55:42]

whateva:

haup pvr-150

[16:56:08]

whateva:

interestingly while everything else is enumerated 0 and 1 the conexant chips are enumerated 1 and 2

[16:56:46]

whateva:

and there's a line which reads "cx25840 1–0044: firmware load i2c failure"

[16:56:49]

wagnerrp:

then there should be a bunch of lines for 'ivtv' and 'tveeprom'

[16:57:30]

wagnerrp:

a failed firmware load would prevent a card from working

[16:57:35]

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[16:57:41]

wagnerrp:

try rebooting, try moving the card to a different slot

[16:57:47]

wagnerrp:

try moving the card to a different computer

[16:58:01]

bmidgley:

one of my channels won't tune in anymore

[16:58:13]

wagnerrp:

bmidgley: digital cable channel?

[16:58:17]

bmidgley:

under .21 I would do another scan but in .22 this is destructive and ruins all my channels

[16:58:29]

bmidgley:

yes, digital cable/us

[16:58:55]

bmidgley:

hdhomerun + one hd3000

[16:59:00]

wagnerrp:

rescanning is the only option

[16:59:13]

wagnerrp:

you may be able to get by with scte65scan

[16:59:30]

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[16:59:40]

bmidgley:

is there any way with .22 to get the result of the nondestructive .21 scan?

[17:00:49]

bmidgley:

I'm reading up on scte65scan at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Comcast_Users_And_scte65scan

[17:00:59]

gbee:

bmidgley: you'll need to be more specific about what you mean by 'destructive'

[17:01:09]

whateva:

here's the dmesg | grep ivtv log: http://pastebin.com/LZ8UCcWQ

[17:01:34]

whateva:

anything in it look like the culprit?

[17:02:16]

whateva:

remember that /video1 is the working card

[17:02:29]

wagnerrp:

whateva: looks good from what i see, but you left out a _lot_ of information by grepping for ivtv

[17:02:32]

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[17:03:27]

whateva:

http://pastebin.com/vMHmUs36

[17:03:34]

bmidgley:

gbee after scanning in 0.22, the channels I had labeled like 2.1, 2.2 can't be found

[17:04:05]

whateva:

wagnerrp: this is the entire dmesg

[17:04:20]

bmidgley:

all the programs I've set to record won't work any more

[17:04:37]

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[17:04:44]

bmidgley:

not sure if live tv works, I restored a backup after trying this before

[17:05:06]

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[17:05:58]

wagnerrp:

im going to say that cx25840 firmware load failure is a bad thing

[17:06:21]

whateva:

bad as in software or bad as in throw card away

[17:06:36]

wagnerrp:

bad as in explains why the card isnt working

[17:06:40]

wagnerrp:

see above recommendations

[17:06:44]

oobe is now known as `0OoOoO0OoOoO0`

[17:06:46]

whateva:

I will do. Thanks

[17:07:07]

wagnerrp:

it may help to actually remove all power from the machine

[17:07:11]

whateva:

There ought to be a "dump dmesg to pastebin.com" function in linux

[17:07:18]

whateva:

I never cold started it

[17:07:20]

whateva:

damn

[17:07:25]

`0OoOoO0OoOoO0` is now known as oobe

[17:08:00]

whateva:

shutting down now

[17:08:37]

whateva:

unplugging

[17:09:09]

whateva:

waiting thirty seconds

[17:09:14]

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[17:09:40]

wagnerrp:

i just know ive experienced some weird hardware quirks which could only be resolved by such a cold boot

[17:10:20]

wagnerrp:

http://pastebin.ca/download/paste2pastebin.pl

[17:10:49]

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[17:11:13]

whateva:

rebootan

[17:12:07]

whateva:

it fixed it

[17:12:16]

whateva:

holy poop

[17:12:29]

dougt:

heh

[17:13:02]

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[17:15:48]

fukdnscerd:

another ? bout mythvideo. I have two video directories. One is new downloads that I keep all of my legal videos downloaded from the net. I do not move them to the main vid folder until I decide I want to keep them. With local fs this showed up as two folders and kept things seperated quite nicely. My question: Is there a way to implement this with storage groups?

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`0OoOoO0OoOoO0` is now known as oobe

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[17:25:53]

whateva:

what is this hubbub about storage groups I keep hearing about

[17:26:14]

whateva:

and is it why videos I copied to /var/lib/mythtv/videos don't show up

[17:26:53]

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[17:27:05]

fukdnscerd:

storage groups are a way for the backend to handle video storage instead of the frontend. It eliminates the need to have your video directories shared thru nfs to all your machines

[17:27:20]

whateva:

I only have a shared front/backend

[17:27:53]

fukdnscerd:

if /var/lib/mythtv/videos is not set up as the storage group it may not show up. Unless you have the local fs path set in mythvideo

[17:28:27]

whateva:

well, it's the default path in the setup

[17:28:49]

fukdnscerd:

in mythvideo setup? or in mythtv-setup

[17:29:03]

whateva:

the setup in mythtv for videos

[17:29:21]

fukdnscerd:

you mean from the settings menu on the frontend?

[17:29:28]

whateva:

right

[17:29:43]

fukdnscerd:

who owns the directory and what are the permissions

[17:30:10]

whateva:

i'll check

[17:31:12]

whateva:

drwxrwsr-x 2 mythtv mythtv 47 2010-03–13 12:02 videos

[17:31:23]

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[17:31:33]

TMM:

hi all! I was wondering if someone could maybe tell me if mythgame is useful as a frontend for a largish collection of mame roms. The other frontends I've seen so far really require a keyboard to get through that, but I'd rather not add one to my mame cab

[17:31:48]

fukdnscerd:

what user do you run mythfrontend as

[17:32:07]

whateva:

the login is mythbox

[17:32:15]

whateva:

I was told not to use mythtv

[17:32:26]

fukdnscerd:

does that user have read/write permision on that directory

[17:33:12]

whateva:

I just created a text file in it, so yeah

[17:33:15]

fukdnscerd:

have you scanned for changes from mythvideo

[17:33:34]

whateva:

remind me again how I do that

[17:33:37]

whateva:

it's been ages

[17:33:52]

fukdnscerd:

press 'm' and select scan for changes from the main mythvideo screen

[17:34:27]

whateva:

bingo

[17:34:30]

whateva:

thx

[17:34:36]

fukdnscerd:

np

[17:35:00]

whateva:

is there a particular advantage to mythvideo not doing this automatically every time I go into it

[17:35:16]

fukdnscerd:

takes much less time to load

[17:35:48]

whateva:

in other words it's loading a database

[17:36:02]

whateva:

instead of scanning a directory

[17:36:19]

fukdnscerd:

yep

[17:36:54]

whateva:

I'm thinking of how OS X patched the filesystem to automagically manage metadata

[17:37:12]

whateva:

and no I don't expect a filesystem to go hunt imdb

[17:38:03]

fukdnscerd:

I don't know anything about OS X, I imagine they have some sort of db or cache

[17:38:35]

whateva:

spotlight inherits what BeOS developers built

[17:39:05]

whateva:

basically every time there's a change to a file or directory the filesystem indexes the metadata it knows it can index

[17:39:53]

fukdnscerd:

hmm... work pretty good huh?

[17:39:57]

whateva:

very

[17:40:12]

whateva:

the only caveat is that it tends to work best with file-level data

[17:40:22]

dougt:

like every good channel is encrypted when transported over fw.

[17:40:26]

dougt:

><

[17:40:29]

iamlindoro:

TMM, MythGame is a frontend that might work okay, it's intended for remote control use so it might be okay for a cabinet... though I have a lot of improvements I plan to make to it in the next six months or so that may make it less ugly UI wise and a little more reliable

[17:40:42]

iamlindoro:

TMM, it's also a little unintuitive to set up

[17:41:23]

fukdnscerd:

OS X is Unix-like, BSD I think... maybe thats something that we will see in the linux realm soon

[17:41:57]

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[17:42:09]

fukdnscerd:

not sure if/how much they contribute to community tho

[17:42:10]

TMM:

iamlindoro, yeah I saw some rather nasty scripting going on the wiki. Not that I mind that terribly

[17:43:11]

TMM:

most mame frontends seem to be geared towards 'regular' pc usage though. The ones that aren't seem to have fallen in disrepair

[17:43:25]

fukdnscerd:

They made a gaming cabinet on an episode of Hak .5 once, I believe it had a nice menu tho it might have run on windows

[17:43:48]

TMM:

yeah, there's a couple on windows. But I don't really want to go that route

[17:44:04]

fukdnscerd:

cant blame ya

[17:44:06]

TMM:

well I really don't want to go that route

[17:44:30]

TMM:

there's advancemenu, but that thing seems a tad broken

[17:44:37]

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[17:44:43]

fukdnscerd:

If i cant run it in linux I tend to go without lol

[17:45:04]

TMM:

well, me too :)

[17:45:20]

kormoc:

fukdnscerd: whateva: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_attribute#Mac_OS_X

[17:45:33]

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[17:48:29]

fukdnscerd:

so this is something most widely used linux file systems support, just not widely used

[17:50:30]

kormoc:

yes

[17:51:22]

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[17:51:23]

fukdnscerd:

is there any advantage to it compared to say using mysql to store this data

[17:52:08]

kormoc:

well, when copying the file around, the metadata stays with it (as long as it stays on a supported FS), but you can't search for files with specific metadata easily without scanning them all

[17:54:00]

jams:

hey kormoc when working with mythweb yesterday i noticed the streaming urls (asx/directdownload/flash) produced urls of the type http://hostname//$path

[17:54:09]

jams:

notice the extra slash in front of the path

[17:54:14]

** kormoc nods **

[17:54:28]

fukdnscerd:

that would be good for migration of your library, but horrible for performance

[17:54:35]

jams:

while not a huge deal it caused problems with my lighttpd rewrite rules.

[17:54:44]

kormoc:

Really? Huh

[17:54:48]

jams:

yeah

[17:54:56]

jams:

it was matching against ^/mythweb

[17:55:05]

jams:

which didn't match ^//mythweb

[17:55:07]

kormoc:

gotcha

[17:55:10]

jams:

so the rules didn't apply

[17:55:22]

jams:

took a long time to figure that one out

[17:55:40]

jams:

really odd cause it worked with lighttpd 1.4.20 but not 1.4.21+

[17:55:41]

kormoc:

Apache condenses multiple slashes into one before passing it off, and I assumed they all did, my mistake

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[17:56:08]

jams:

it worked for urls that didn't need the rewrite

[17:56:21]

jams:

anyway just thought i would mention it

[17:56:30]

jams:

I looked through the php and got lost very quickly

[17:56:33]

** kormoc nods **

[17:56:36]

jams:

so i gave up :)

[17:56:48]

kormoc:

Heh, yeah, we need to fix that bit up, unify it

[17:57:05]

jams:

my rewrite rules now look like ^/{1,2}mythweb

[17:57:10]

jams:

and that works

[17:58:27]

jams:

the lighttpd guys in irc didn't seem interested in fixing it..even tracked down the changeset that broke it.

[17:58:38]

kormoc:

Yeah, they're a weird bunch

[17:59:00]

jams:

i really like lighttpd for small stuff, sometimes apache is just overkill

[17:59:27]

kormoc:

Heh, tuned apache isn't /too/ bad :)

[17:59:32]

jams:

for mythweb i think apache is overkill

[17:59:40]

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[18:00:17]

jams:

agreed about tuned apache..but alot of linhes users really don't care about that sort of thing

[18:01:41]

fukdnscerd:

is there a way to attempt to retrieve imdb data for my videos all at once, or do i have to go in and do it manually

[18:01:49]

fukdnscerd:

ie... one at a time

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[18:05:25]

jolaren_:

I'm tired of running my server with mythbuntu backend/frontend .. Do you have any other suggestions? I'm thinking about Ubuntu server with mythfrontend/backend and startx so no gdm

[18:07:15]

fukdnscerd:

i have heard ratpoison is a good lightweight window manager, but has no mouse support

[18:07:44]

fukdnscerd:

i've never had the time to dive into trying it with myth tho

[18:09:40]

jams:

used ratpoison for a while with myth. it annoyed the crap out of me everytime i wanted todo do anything not involving the mythui

[18:10:32]

fukdnscerd:

probably wouldnt work well with mythbrowser, at least not playing flash videos

[18:12:01]

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[18:12:07]

fukdnscerd:

but for an myth stb it should work pretty well, I never do anything cli based on my frontend except through ssh

[18:15:21]

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[18:16:37]

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[18:16:41]

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[18:17:34]

fukdnscerd:

i have two xbox controllers that I would like to use with mythgame. Does anyone know of any way to ensure the same controller gets mapped to the same joystick dev everytime?

[18:18:50]

jolaren_:

I mean what setup do you guys run for a combined frontend/backend?

[18:19:28]

kormoc:

jolaren_: Late 2009 Mac Mini + HDPVR + External usb hard drive

[18:20:22]

jolaren_:

yer I was thinkin software wise

[18:20:24]

fukdnscerd:

i use mythbuntu for my mbe/fe, and I use ubuntu studio on my other two machines.

[18:20:42]

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[18:20:44]

fukdnscerd:

ubuntu studio was not a choice influenced by myth tho

[18:21:17]

jolaren_:

I've been running mythbuntu aswell but I dislike teh gdm runnin all the time etc

[18:21:30]

wagnerrp:

jolaren_: so dont use gdm

[18:21:38]

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[18:21:58]

wagnerrp:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_Auto_Login

[18:22:55]

jolaren_:

wagnerrp: yer already done that was more thinkin of X runnin all the time

[18:23:09]

wagnerrp:

that runs X all the time

[18:23:25]

jolaren_:

I know that and that's what I don't want to

[18:23:27]

wagnerrp:

you mean you _dont_ want X running all the time?

[18:23:47]

wagnerrp:

run irexec as a system service, to 'su' to mythtv and startx

[18:23:48]

jolaren_:

I'd like to start and stop x manually instead seein as how X drains resources and stability of my srv

[18:24:11]

wagnerrp:

if you dont have those resources to drain, you should get more

[18:24:25]

wagnerrp:

are you intending to shut other things down when you start up the frontend?

[18:24:31]

jolaren_:

no

[18:24:39]

jolaren_:

I do have the resources, more than plenty

[18:24:46]

wagnerrp:

then what is the problem?

[18:24:47]

sphery:

wagnerrp: do you realize what 100MB RAM costs these days?

[18:24:51]

sphery:

:)

[18:24:58]

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[18:25:17]

jolaren_:

4gb ram, 3.8ghz x2 proc 2000 gig hdd or smth cant recall

[18:25:35]

wagnerrp:

3.8?

[18:25:39]

jolaren_:

3.2 perhaps

[18:25:40]

jolaren_:

can't recall

[18:25:43]

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[18:25:48]

wagnerrp:

no one sells a 3.8

[18:25:58]

wagnerrp:

and only the top end i7 overclocks itself to that

[18:26:16]

sphery:

and a X2 3800+ isn't 3.8GHz :)

[18:26:35]

jolaren_:

processor AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor

[18:26:53]

fukdnscerd:

jolaren_: so why not run X all the time, if you have the resources

[18:26:53]

wagnerrp:

3.0

[18:27:42]

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[18:28:39]

fukdnscerd:

btw thanks wagnerrp: I have been meaning to get around to setting up autologin. That link will come in handy very soon!!

[18:29:04]

jolaren_:

fukdnscerd: I guess I could I just dislike the idea of an server running X all the time

[18:29:06]

kormoc:

jolaren_: sudo pmap -d `pidof X` | tail -n 1 | awk '{ print $4 }'

[18:29:18]

sphery:

wagnerrp: where's a channel op in #mythtv when you need one

[18:29:19]

fukdnscerd:

fair enough

[18:29:31]

wagnerrp:

heh

[18:29:33]

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[18:29:38]

kormoc:

sphery: FWIW, X uses 12 megs of ram here

[18:29:52]

wagnerrp:

probably off figuring out how to spell 'kixxoored' in morse

[18:29:55]

jolaren_:

kormoc: 11524K

[18:29:58]

fukdnscerd:

thats one reason i would never switch to a windows server!! that and its windows lol

[18:30:02]

sphery:

yeah, I figured overestimating would be better than starting a "No, mine uses 15"

[18:30:05]

sphery:

type argument

[18:30:23]

sphery:

and since 100MB is nothing, these days...

[18:30:39]

kormoc:

jolaren_: so you really care about under 12 megs of ram eh?

[18:31:05]

jolaren_:

kormoc: heh :-) not really just annoyin

[18:31:07]

kormoc:

sphery: wagnerrp: We should hook you guys up with ops in there

[18:31:12]

jolaren_:

will reboot the entire system today

[18:31:17]

jolaren_:

cuz it wont let me lock channels no more

[18:31:21]

jolaren_:

just 2 out of 10 free

[18:31:43]

kormoc:

jolaren_: so disable X/GDm's autostart and map a lirc command to login/startX as myth?

[18:31:49]

jolaren_:

thought perhaps a swithc from mythbuntu to somethin else would b better

[18:31:58]

jolaren_:

kormoc: thats an excellent solution once i get my IR that supports HID

[18:32:04]

jolaren_:

cuz my current remote sends keys not hids

[18:32:06]

sphery:

kormoc: that was actually my subliminal way of getting your attention in the channel--not a real complaint :)

[18:32:10]

kormoc:

:P

[18:32:33]

sphery:

yeah, he needs kicked

[18:32:57]

wagnerrp:

didnt evil white man invent morse?

[18:33:02]

kormoc:

Yup

[18:33:15]

iamlindoro:

You mean he wasn't named Iron Horse Morse?

[18:33:19]

jams:

sphery- if it's done it here it will happen

[18:33:19]

sphery:

thanks kormoc

[18:33:22]

kormoc:

np

[18:33:40]

jams:

yes thanks..that was annoying

[18:33:58]

sphery:

you really have to wonder about some people

[18:34:00]

jolaren_:

well kormoc except for mythbuntu mythdora what' other setups are 'great'?

[18:34:02]

kormoc:

If he does that crap here, I should test my auto-op/kick/deop

[18:34:08]

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[18:34:17]

sphery:

lol, timing

[18:34:17]

iamlindoro:

You may get your chance

[18:34:21]

kormoc:

jolaren_: personally I run Gentoo, but I don't think most people should be

[18:34:24]

wagnerrp:

sphery: better not... thats how aneurysms occur

[18:34:29]

sphery:

true

[18:34:45]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, I need to set up that macro for all the ... erm... administrating I've been doing lately

[18:35:05]

wagnerrp:

Sioux_33: if youre dying, you should call your local emergency services

[18:35:11]

sphery:

btw, iamlindoro, nice alsa patch

[18:35:15]

jolaren_:

kormoc: agreed tho

[18:35:18]

wagnerrp:

they can provide more immediate help

[18:35:21]

Sioux_33:

we dont have one here

[18:35:33]

iamlindoro:

sphery, thanks, I am not sure why we have gone this long without such a simple little thing

[18:35:48]

sphery:

yeah, we really need to get that mostly wrong list out of there

[18:35:59]

iamlindoro:

sphery, 'course, I won't be applying it

[18:36:14]

iamlindoro:

but maybe I can convince danielk (or paul-h since he tested it ;) )

[18:37:07]

sphery:

yeah

[18:37:57]

sphery:

I'd guess it doesn't show the user-defined logical device names, but the whole purpose of those is to give complex configurations easy-to-remember and easy-to-type names, and since it's a combo box, we're better off not having them in there

[18:38:02]

Sioux_33:

dev 4700 hauppauge nova-s usb2 it doesn't work with v4l-dvb any chance to make it work? any advice ?

[18:39:00]

iamlindoro:

sphery, it shows the logical names

[18:39:03]

wagnerrp:

if youre having trouble getting a tuner to be recognized by your system, try in #linuxtv

[18:39:07]

iamlindoro:

surround50, surround51, etc?

[18:39:08]

jolaren_:

btw i bought a 15 usd dvb-t usb card from a chinese site and installed it to my friends buntu box.. worked oob

[18:39:10]

iamlindoro:

yep, shows those

[18:39:13]

jolaren_:

15 usd!

[18:39:20]

sphery:

iamlindoro: meaning the user-defined ones in .asoundrc and /etc/asound.conf?

[18:39:20]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Displays everything aplay -L does

[18:39:23]

sphery:

aplay -L doesn't

[18:39:37]

iamlindoro:

ah-- must be talking about different things then

[18:39:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

Sioux_33: It's not supported by V4L, so it won't work in myth: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-S_USB_D . . . _USB_Devices

[18:39:42]

sphery:

Sioux_33: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/

[18:39:52]

sphery:

too slow

[18:39:57]

Sioux_33:

i know it doesnt work

[18:39:59]

** J-e-f-f-A is amazed he beat sphery with a link! **

[18:40:02]

iamlindoro:

sphery, and since the majority of people just need to be able to try everything in -L, it should work for far more cases than the current static list does

[18:40:08]

Sioux_33:

can i add device id and it would work?

[18:40:20]

Sioux_33:

can i do anything about it?

[18:40:22]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: and you actually had the specific/direct link--mine was just a top-level

[18:40:27]

wagnerrp:

Sioux_33: if it were that simple, someone would have done it already

[18:40:49]

jolaren_:

wagnerrp: that's the attitude :D

[18:40:56]

jolaren_:

thats basicly what I think about everythin I cant find on google

[18:41:40]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah, I think it's the right way to go--and without any mixed-analog, mixed-digital, etc.

[18:42:03]

sphery:

those cause more confusion than they're worth

[18:42:20]

sphery:

and, besides, "You don't need a .asoundrc in Fedora 8+"

[18:43:14]

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[18:43:15]

sphery:

(I read it on the wiki, therefore, there's never a reason that someone would ever choose to give human-readable names to their complex ALSA configs in a single ALSA config file rather than configure every single application on the system to use the complex ALSA configuration string.)

[18:44:01]

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[18:44:14]

Sioux_33:

nova-s usb2 use cx24123 there in v4l are files named cx24123 and i dont really know why the driver doesnt see my card i asked on linuxtv but there is no one who can say anything about it or know anything about it thats why im asking over here

[18:44:21]

sphery:

After all, why would I want my ALSA config in the ALSA config file? It makes much more sense to put it into MythTV, and MPlayer, and xine, and xmms, and VLC, and Hulu Desktop, and Flash-for-Firefox, and ...

[18:44:34]

wagnerrp:

Sioux_33: we dont develop tuner drivers

[18:45:01]

wagnerrp:

while there are some tuner devs that hang out in here occasionally, they are primarily going to be found in #linuxtv

[18:45:04]

sphery:

and I'm guessing if it says it's not supported on the linuxtv wiki, there's a) a good reason and b) no one here who actually has it working

[18:45:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

Sioux_33: Bottom line is that if it doesn't work in Linux (IE: if it's not supported with V4L), then it's not going to work in Myth no matter what you do...

[18:45:18]

Sioux_33:

i guess so but maybe we know how could we mythtv help this man right?

[18:45:49]

iamlindoro:

I like how MythTv becomes a "we" when people want something

[18:46:16]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is too complex a program to be used in aiding tuner development

[18:46:29]

sphery:

iamlindoro: We should integrate MythVideo into mythfrontend/mythbackend. When will you have the patch for we?

[18:46:40]

iamlindoro:

heh

[18:46:43]

wagnerrp:

someone would use something much simpler, and directly accessible, when developing drivers

[18:47:45]

iamlindoro:

sphery, Why? I can just use this great bash script

[18:47:53]

sphery:

oh, tell me more!

[18:48:11]

sphery:

someone should write a bash script to rename myth recordings to human readable names

[18:48:16]

iamlindoro:

this feature should really be included in MythTV

[18:48:32]

kormoc:

Bash!?!?! I demand SH v 0.98 Alpha2!

[18:48:43]

iamlindoro:

I just don' get FOSS

[18:48:47]

sphery:

they could have it call mysql command-line client for DB access, then take the output and pass it to Perl code specified in a perl -e...

[18:49:03]

** J-e-f-f-A was thinking similar to kormoc... ;-) **

[18:51:02]

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[18:51:08]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: no, were talking about a bunch of _very_large_ bash scripts that have been showing up in the last few months

[18:51:20]

wagnerrp:

like 1500+ line large

[18:51:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ah. ;-)

[18:51:44]

** J-e-f-f-A writes TACL macros that large on Tandem mainframes... ;-) But not bash/shell/etc... **

[18:51:52]

kormoc:

I rewrote mythbackend in bash don'tcha know? #!/bin/bash mythbackend

[18:52:24]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A / kormoc / iamlindoro : my bash linking script reference was to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . .sh?rev=2427

[18:52:31]

kormoc:

1.5k lines is amazingly excessive

[18:52:47]

sphery:

before xr is got it done more sensibly with mythlink.pl

[18:52:55]

kormoc:

hehe

[18:53:13]

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[18:53:13]

kormoc:

/tv/pretty eh?

[18:53:23]

sphery:

yeah, remember old KnoppMyth

[18:53:30]

kormoc:

never actually used it

[18:53:43]

sphery:

I remember users talking about /tv/pretty

[18:53:57]

sphery:

KM used that directory name, even

[18:54:11]

sphery:

(the script may have actually come from a KM user, originally)

[18:54:31]

kormoc:

ahh

[18:54:49]

** kormoc sighs **

[18:54:59]

iamlindoro:

That is wayyyy too many things for one commit

[18:55:11]

sphery:

I will say the script got it right with the whole link thing

[18:55:16]

kormoc:

I need a corner tv stand that has closing front doors, why oh why is it so hard to find

[18:55:18]

sphery:

yeah, that was back in the pre-Trac days

[18:55:21]

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[18:55:46]

sphery:

basically, people sent patches to the lists, and then when he got a chance, Chutt went around and wrangled up a bunch of them and put them in

[18:56:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

kormoc: Build one. ;-)

[18:56:14]

dtolj:

Anyone knows how to use mythcommflag with mplayer instead of mythtv bundle?

[18:56:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

What???

[18:56:24]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: I don't really have a way to

[18:56:28]

sphery:

(or some of the other devs, but he seemed to do most of the "random patches from the lists" commits)

[18:56:28]

kormoc:

dtolj: you can't?

[18:56:52]

dtolj:

kormoc: do you know of a standalone version similar to mythcommflag that can detect commercials?

[18:56:56]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A: Well, maybe I could put some doors on, but don't really have the tools to do more then that

[18:57:02]

sphery:

dtolj: there's a windows one

[18:57:06]

sphery:

fork of mythcommflag

[18:57:18]

dtolj:

no Linux?

[18:57:34]

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[18:57:36]

kormoc:

dtolj: yeah, the windows one, but it just dumps frame positions, and nothing else really supports using it...

[18:57:38]

dtolj:

i was searching on sourceforge for a project but didnt see anything

[18:58:04]

sphery:

in GNU/Linux, people who want to record TV and watch it without commercials seem to have all chosen to use the best DVR for GNU/Linux (or, just plain best DVR?)

[18:58:18]

sphery:

and it has mythcommflag built in!

[18:58:21]

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[18:58:22]

kormoc:

plain best!

[18:58:26]

** kormoc shifty eyes **

[18:58:51]

sphery:

I would have said, "nay, just plain best", but I wasn't sure if it's spelled that way or not...

[18:58:55]

** J-e-f-f-A agrees 1000% (or more) **

[18:59:50]

dtolj:

sphery: thats ok, but mythtv dosn't recognize my hardware however it works fine with mplayer. I guess I was just looking for a simpler approach

[18:59:52]

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[18:59:57]

iamlindoro:

Pretty sure the guy who used the mythcommflag code for his windows version does all sorts of shady stuff with the code now

[19:00:05]

sphery:

dtolj: which hardware?

[19:00:12]

iamlindoro:

sells subscriptions to get access to hie prerelease code, tc.

[19:00:28]

dtolj:

sphery: my tuner card, I believe its unsupported

[19:00:31]

sphery:

yeah, he seem to have GPL'ed stuff and non-GPL'ed stuff

[19:00:48]

sphery:

dtolj: if it's supported in GNU/Linux, it works in MythTV (with one small exception that I know of)

[19:01:08]

dtolj:

How hard would it be to make a standalone version of mythcommflag that works with any player?

[19:01:11]

sphery:

s/know of/might half-remember/

[19:01:32]

sphery:

well, how hard is it to tell any player in existence to skip over this part of the file, and this part, and this part

[19:01:33]

kormoc:

dtolj: depends on your coding skills

[19:01:56]

sphery:

and oh, if it skips, but it's not 100% accurate, to allow the user to skip back without it auto-skipping again, and ...

[19:02:06]

sphery:

flagging is easy

[19:02:12]

sphery:

getting the player to do the right thing is hard

[19:02:35]

sphery:

not to detract from the work that Capt M did on the flagger--but it's /now/ easy in that he's done that work

[19:02:55]

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[19:03:00]

sphery:

dtolj: details on your capture card?

[19:03:36]

dtolj:

skip based on flagged time invertal of a pre-recorded video file, should work with any player. why not?

[19:04:02]

sphery:

if you can control the player, then yes

[19:04:06]

iamlindoro:

because 99% of all players don't support precise skips

[19:04:15]

iamlindoro:

they support best-effort skipping

[19:04:17]

dtolj:

sphery: havent looked at the code but is it C?

[19:04:23]

sphery:

or, yeah, yes, but ignoring imprecision :)

[19:04:29]

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[19:04:30]

sphery:

C++

[19:04:35]

sphery:

dtolj: again, what capture card?

[19:06:45]

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[19:07:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I guess he doesn't want to say....

[19:07:47]

sphery:

guess not

[19:08:05]

sphery:

either he doesn't want to be proven wrong, doesn't want MythTV, or doesn't want to admit to where he's getting his TV

[19:08:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

That's what I was thinking too... ;-)

[19:10:02]

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[19:10:04]

sphery:

I'll assume it's a DISH network with R5000 and a legal subscription so that he's right and I don't have to consider anything even shadier as happening.

[19:10:18]

sphery:

(since we don't support R5K)

[19:10:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Perhaps... according to whois he's connecting through Germany, but who knows... ;-)

[19:11:34]

sphery:

great, there goes my naivete

[19:11:53]

** J-e-f-f-A laughs ;-) **

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[19:38:24]

achandra:

Having an interesting issue where after loading an avi into videos it plays fine...but after leaving myth for a few hours (overnight), I come back, and none of the videos play. Any ideas on whats going on with that?

[19:38:57]

tank-man:

try looking for more info from the logs

[19:39:05]

tank-man:

it is hard just guessing

[19:39:43]

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[19:49:08]

achandra:

got it resolved...i believe.....recreated the videos directory location on backend, re-scanned the metadata.

[19:49:19]

achandra:

tank-man, lets see if that resolves it for overnight

[19:49:44]

tank-man:

so you deleted the directory or sometihng?

[19:49:51]

achandra:

yeah...was using iso's before

[19:49:56]

achandra:

and that didnt work so well at all

[19:50:06]

achandra:

so went back to avi's and forgot i'd done that

[19:50:29]

achandra:

so replaced it..and it appears to work (for now)...so we'll have to wait and see if in fact that was the issue.

[19:50:49]

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[19:52:08]

stephan:

hi i just configured mythtv and was able to scan for dvb-t chanels... when i now try to wath tv in the frontend it gives me an error that all input devices are in use bur no recordings are sceduled

[19:52:18]

stephan:

what can i do?

[19:52:27]

kormoc:

restart the backend?

[19:52:38]

stephan:

did that

[19:52:50]

stephan:

doesn't work

[19:54:07]

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[19:54:39]

fukdnscerd:

achandra: you said isos didnt work too well? were you trying to use the Internal player?

[19:55:38]

stephan:

to be clear: after a fresh install i was able to scan in the backend but was not able to watch tv at all

[19:55:55]

stephan:

anybody had that problem?

[19:57:04]

fukdnscerd:

im following the guide at http://mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_Auto_Login to setup automatic login on my dedicated fe. Its implying that I should autologin and start fe with the user mythtv. but i have heard this is not recommended. What is your advice

[19:57:27]

wagnerrp:

why would running mythfrontend as user mythtv not be recommended?

[19:57:28]

Beirdo:

ahhh, going from 50F back to 85F

[19:57:31]

Beirdo:

hehe

[19:57:48]

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[19:57:50]

** Beirdo thinks he'd rather be back in Seattle, thanks. **

[19:57:57]

wagnerrp:

Beirdo: but theres less rain

[19:58:03]

Beirdo:

not much less

[19:58:06]

Beirdo:

:)

[19:58:15]

wagnerrp:

but youre only in a rainforest now

[19:58:18]

Beirdo:

it often rains daily here. tropical weather...

[19:58:23]

wagnerrp:

that doesnt come close to comparing to seattle

[19:58:27]

Beirdo:

heh

[19:58:42]

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[19:58:44]

fukdnscerd:

wagnerrp: not sure, just heard someone say not to use the mythtv user. just wanted to make sure i wasnt gonna cause future probs

[19:58:48]

Beirdo:

well, yesterday was quite sunny in Seattle

[19:59:01]

wagnerrp:

fukdnscerd: its usually not recommended to run things as root

[19:59:14]

wagnerrp:

and you should always run mythtv-setup as the same user that you run mythbackend

[19:59:15]

Beirdo:

but I was too tired to bother pulling the camera out of the bottom of the backpack to take pictures

[19:59:20]

wagnerrp:

but other than that, its all personal preference

[19:59:26]

fukdnscerd:

k

[19:59:39]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle#Climate

[19:59:42]

Beirdo:

got a couple on the iPhone though

[19:59:56]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: At 37.1 inches (942 mm)[82], the city receives less precipitation than New York City, Atlanta, Houston, and most cities of the Eastern Seaboard of the United States.

[20:00:20]

Beirdo:

kormoc: that parking lot in Pioneer Square looks funky when walking up from the ferry docks :) looks a lot like the front of a ship

[20:00:29]

** kormoc laughs **

[20:00:35]

wagnerrp:

so why does seattle have the image of perpetual rain?

[20:01:07]

kormoc:

wagnerrp: it's a lot of days of extremely light rain or clouds

[20:01:19]

kormoc:

"This reputation derives from this frequency of precipitation as well as the fact that it is cloudy an average of 201 days and 93 partly cloudy days per year"

[20:01:42]

** Beirdo chuckles. **

[20:11:35]

fukdnscerd:

do i need to remove/disable gdm if im using autologin

[20:12:15]

wagnerrp:

if you set it up properly, they will open on separate terminals, and you will just have two independent X sessions running

[20:12:24]

wagnerrp:

but yes, you should disable GDM

[20:12:55]

fukdnscerd:

can i just uninstall it or will that rip out a big chunk of my system

[20:13:06]

wagnerrp:

just disable it

[20:13:10]

fukdnscerd:

k

[20:13:12]

wagnerrp:

however you disable services on ubuntu

[20:13:16]

wagnerrp:

shouldnt be too difficult

[20:13:39]

wagnerrp:

takes about 20 characters in a terminal on gentoo

[20:13:56]

wagnerrp:

its probably a couple mouse clicks on ubuntu

[20:14:38]

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[20:16:50]

fukdnscerd:

on second thought, mythbuntu uses gdm and i think everything else is already setup, just doesnt autostart myth on login. Maybe i should just fix that instead of going through the whole autologin setup process

[20:17:20]

wagnerrp:

gdm has its own autologin mechanism

[20:17:21]

kormoc:

mv /etc/init/gdm.conf /etc/init/gdm.conf.disabled

[20:17:39]

kormoc:

go go easier, better, upstart!

[20:18:36]

fukdnscerd:

its already doin autologin as it did with the myth from repo, just not autostarting the backend or frontend since going to trunk

[20:24:58]

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[20:31:00]

stephan:

Mythtv is using all inputs, but there are no active recordings -> what does that mean?

[20:31:17]

iamlindoro:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-dev/2010-March/067860.html

[20:31:23]

iamlindoro:

Theme competition voting now open to trunk users

[20:34:23]

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[20:36:02]

** sphery unleashes his botnet on the voting site **

[20:36:19]

kormoc:

g'luck with that ;)

[20:36:29]

sphery:

in truth, nice work on organizing the contest, iamlindoro

[20:36:34]

sphery:

and making the voting stuff, kormoc

[20:36:41]

iamlindoro:

pffffft, kormoc did more work than I probably did :)

[20:36:44]

sphery:

and on the themes, theme authors

[20:37:05]

sphery:

we users all appreciate the work you've all done--even if it doesn't always seem like it :)

[20:37:23]

iamlindoro:

now, a few suggestions for how you could do tons of work to make us like the themes more...

[20:37:26]

iamlindoro:

;)

[20:37:36]

** kormoc laughs **

[20:37:39]

iamlindoro:

"We'll be your best friend!"

[20:38:18]

iamlindoro:

And apologies to the theme authors for the unavoidable boorish behavior to follow on the lists

[20:38:34]

iamlindoro:

"$Theme is like the sweat from my taint!"

[20:38:40]

justinh:

hoe it doesn't scar anybody for life :)

[20:38:47]

justinh:

s/hoe/hope/

[20:39:01]

sphery:

LSCAR anyone

[20:39:21]

iamlindoro:

Too bad we don't have DiggityDagmar here to tell us how much better his LCARS would have been

[20:39:34]

iamlindoro:

And by too bad, I mean hooray

[20:39:34]

sphery:

I heard it was pixel-perfect

[20:39:43]

sphery:

or was it sub-pixel-perfect

[20:39:53]

justinh:

I heard I woulda been pixel perfect were it not for the sucky thing they call Qt

[20:39:54]

iamlindoro:

subspace perfect

[20:40:09]

sphery:

Reach out to sub-space!

[20:40:15]

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[20:40:20]

justinh:

mmm I miss going into sub space

[20:40:37]

justinh:

but my days as a gimp are well & truly over now

[20:40:59]

** kormoc blinks **

[20:41:05]

sphery:

If we get any of the boorish behavior on the lists about these themes, I'll have Faith No More

[20:41:12]

kormoc:

Epic

[20:41:48]

iamlindoro:

we can jam some Red Hot Chili Peppers in the eyes of those people

[20:41:59]

iamlindoro:

of course, I'd prefer to remain in a state of Our Lady Peace

[20:45:25]

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[20:45:33]

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[20:47:12]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, you on -developers now?

[20:47:17]

wagnerrp:

yeah

[20:47:20]

iamlindoro:

cool

[20:48:41]

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[20:51:42]

iamlindoro:

Will be very interesting to see how many people vote versus how many people complain loudly about the state of various themes

[20:52:04]

iamlindoro:

like the people who complain about politics but aren't registered to vote

[20:52:34]

fukdnscerd:

themes should be put into /usr/share/mythtv/themes/ right?

[20:52:51]

iamlindoro:

if your prefix is /usr, yes

[20:53:10]

fukdnscerd:

just wondering cuz it only contains the two default themes, and I know i have more than that... in fact im using terra now

[20:53:24]

iamlindoro:

then your prefix is likely on /usr

[20:53:26]

iamlindoro:

er not

[20:54:43]

fukdnscerd:

ahh /usr/local/share

[20:55:03]

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[20:55:04]

fukdnscerd:

maybe the stuff in /usr/share/mythtv/themes are remnants from the repo install

[20:55:16]

justinh:

prolly

[20:55:57]

fukdnscerd:

just drop em in and I should be good to go right?

[20:56:16]

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[20:57:36]

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[20:58:45]

fukdnscerd:

yep

[20:59:58]

fukdnscerd:

is there support for these themes lol

[21:00:11]

iamlindoro:

?

[21:00:17]

iamlindoro:

I don't understand the question

[21:00:35]

fukdnscerd:

background image not coming up for childish

[21:01:06]

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[21:01:23]

ikke-t:

anyone using qt-linguist for translations?

[21:01:32]

kisak:

I got mythfrontend working on windows 7 64 bit earlier today

[21:01:49]

kisak:

with the unofficial binary

[21:03:59]

justinh:

what unofficial binary?

[21:05:04]

sid3windr:

you already asked that once, didn't you, justin :P

[21:05:32]

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[21:05:51]

kisak:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~davco/

[21:05:55]

justinh:

need to know, so I can DDOS it

[21:05:58]

sid3windr:

=)

[21:06:03]

sid3windr:

I think it's linked from the wiki

[21:06:27]

kisak:

well, the default theme is broken in that environment

[21:06:38]

kormoc:

awesome, a lawsuit target!

[21:06:59]

kisak:

(Terra)

[21:08:15]

justinh:

so if the default theme is broke, I guess you didn't manage to get mythfrontend working on windows 7 ;-)

[21:09:01]

kisak:

you can force the theme on the command line so that you can get to the settings to change it

[21:09:38]

kisak:

mythfrontend.exe -O theme=MythCenter

[21:09:55]

iamlindoro:

fukdnscerd, wrong directory permissions

[21:10:34]

fukdnscerd:

no i noticed permissions were wierd so i changed them on install...

[21:10:39]

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[21:11:09]

justinh:

rofl http://pics.nase-bohren.de/starwars-figure.jpg

[21:11:10]

iamlindoro:

Not adequately ;)

[21:11:17]

iamlindoro:

Since I changed the dir perms and all work fine

[21:13:37]

fukdnscerd:

i chowned and chmoded to match the existing themes

[21:13:48]

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[21:14:01]

fukdnscerd:

the other two work, just not Childish

[21:14:30]

iamlindoro:

Childish works fine here, so...

[21:14:30]

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[21:14:33]

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[21:14:45]

fukdnscerd:

hmm, I'll keep trying

[21:14:52]

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[21:15:44]

fukdnscerd:

what should permissions be

[21:16:04]

wagnerrp:

readable

[21:16:27]

wagnerrp:

and execute as needed (directories)

[21:17:00]

abqjp:

iamlindoro: I also had perm problems. I had enable the execute bit on the directories.

[21:17:12]

iamlindoro:

abqjp, Yeah, I know

[21:17:32]

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[21:18:38]

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[21:18:52]

justinh:

777 is just easier :P

[21:19:41]

wagnerrp:

so justinh, that was one of your countrymen a while back with the dots and the dashes and the white man speak...

[21:20:16]

justinh:

in #mythtv. I saw that earlier

[21:20:17]

fukdnscerd:

does mythtv make backup copies of the xml files when its using a theme?

[21:20:56]

wagnerrp:

not as far as i know, only scaled versions of the base images

[21:21:25]

fukdnscerd:

hmm, just noticed a bunch of copies with ~ on the end... mustve been from development

[21:22:02]

wagnerrp:

that is a temporary file produced by some text editors

[21:24:24]

justinh:

bet vim doesn't do that

[21:24:37]

fukdnscerd:

prolly gedit

[21:24:43]

abqjp:

emacs

[21:24:44]

wagnerrp:

nah, vim uses 'hidden' files... ones with a period in front

[21:24:47]

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[21:24:47]

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[21:24:53]

wagnerrp:

i know the kde editors use a tilde

[21:25:19]

kormoc:

.file.swp is vim

[21:26:34]

fukdnscerd:

is there a way to change perms just on dirs

[21:26:52]

wagnerrp:

find

[21:28:12]

wagnerrp:

find -type d -exec 'chmod +x';

[21:28:24]

wagnerrp:

might do it... never actually used exec

[21:29:13]

fukdnscerd:

nvm i just used 777

[21:29:23]

fukdnscerd:

at the top level of the themes

[21:29:31]

kormoc:

find /path/to/whatnot -type d -exec chmod +x {} \;

[21:29:38]

** iamlindoro swats a fly with an elephant gun **

[21:29:41]

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[21:30:05]

** wagnerrp watches iamlindoro's shoulder break **

[21:30:29]

** iamlindoro is an experienced firearms user :) **

[21:31:12]

wagnerrp:

my grandpa had some... thing

[21:31:41]

wagnerrp:

dont know what exactly it was, 30 caliber, but like double the grain of a standard .06

[21:32:01]

wagnerrp:

you fired it once, and decided you didnt need to ever again

[21:32:06]

** kormoc laughs **

[21:32:15]

kormoc:

I love non-technical technical writers

[21:32:29]

kormoc:

"Drizzle runs the risk of not being as stable as MySQL, because the Drizzle team is taking things out and putting other stuff in. Of course it may be successful in trying to create a product that's more stable than MySQL."

[21:33:49]

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[21:34:49]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: you wouldn't shoot me?

[21:35:02]

fukdnscerd:

whats the difference between the jamu.py script in the mythvideo dir and the one in the mythfeed dir

[21:35:16]

wagnerrp:

mythfeed?

[21:35:25]

iamlindoro:

MythFeed isn't a real myth plugin

[21:35:30]

iamlindoro:

s/real/official/

[21:35:40]

iamlindoro:

It's a copy of MythVideo a guy did a bunch of search and replaces on

[21:35:43]

kingredbeard:

Hi all. I'm trying to figure out why recordings are showing up on one of my MythTV frontends but not on a different one.

[21:35:44]

dustybin:

fukdnscerd: you have a swear word in your nick, this is a family channel

[21:35:45]

iamlindoro:

so it has tons of MV files

[21:36:19]

wagnerrp:

kingredbeard: do you have some filter turned on on one of your frontends?

[21:36:28]

wagnerrp:

you can change the filters with 'm'

[21:37:09]

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[21:37:25]

kingredbeard:

Sweet! That filters fixed it. I've been cursing at this thing for day.s

[21:38:07]

fukdnscerd:

dustybin: lol sorry

[21:39:02]

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[21:39:21]

** iamlindoro chuckles that the first reponse to the theming competition is "Ugh, I have to run trunk??" **

[21:39:53]

iamlindoro:

Love that people would rather have the theme competition themes, for which the winners will be announced on the release of .23, not work with .23

[21:40:53]

kormoc:

I should get some lunch

[21:44:00]

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[21:47:35]

fugdnscerd:

is that better dustybin

[21:48:42]

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[21:49:15]

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[21:52:09]

fugdnscerd:

trouble running jamu.py http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1840248

[21:53:26]

iamlindoro:

You don't have the python bindings installed

[21:53:37]

iamlindoro:

curse these plain english error messages

[21:54:41]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: ;)

[21:55:05]

fugdnscerd:

I have installed the bindings, I was in here a few days ago about it. It seems to be putting them in dist-packages instead of site-packages

[21:56:09]

iamlindoro:

sounds like you have some configuration issues-- as far as python is concerned (outside of Myth entirely) they're not installed

[21:56:23]

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[21:57:49]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: A comment from wagnerrp yesterday was spot on. If you have the trunk bindings installed then the path to them is wrong and they are not going to be found. Until that is fixed neither jamu or mirobridge will work for you.

[21:57:55]

** J-e-f-f-A votes for changing them to numeric error codes... "Error 36" **

[21:58:29]

RDV_Linux:

J-e-f-f-A: I vote for Error 42 actually;)

[21:58:46]

wagnerrp:

RDV_Linux: is that going to be the error for everything?

[21:58:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

RDV_Linux: But 42 is the ANSWER, not the problem... ;-)

[21:59:15]

RDV_Linux:

J-e-f-f-A: I consider that a helpful error.

[21:59:23]

fugdnscerd:

so how do i install them in the correct path, or change the path

[21:59:36]

fugdnscerd:

s/path/search path/

[21:59:38]

wagnerrp:

if you ran 'python setup.py install'

[21:59:44]

fugdnscerd:

yep

[21:59:47]

wagnerrp:

python will install them to where it wants them

[21:59:55]

wagnerrp:

in the same place it will search for them when it runs

[22:00:06]

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[22:00:11]

wagnerrp:

unless... your install is broken in some manner

[22:00:27]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: After hearing the way you moved from a working Mythbuntu install to trunk I am not sure if anyone here can help.

[22:00:50]

wagnerrp:

if you can 'import MythTV' in the python shell, and access that stuff

[22:00:57]

wagnerrp:

yet it doesnt work when mythtv tries to use it

[22:01:02]

wagnerrp:

i dont know what to tell you

[22:01:08]

wagnerrp:

that is completely baffling to me

[22:01:48]

fugdnscerd:

i can import MythTV only if i start python in the bindings/python dir

[22:02:01]

fugdnscerd:

so i suspect its importing from the cwd

[22:02:50]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: Correct, but the jamu script is following a system path to the bindings.

[22:02:54]

fugdnscerd:

RDV_Linux: what is wrong with the way i moved to trunk, I did so at the advice of this channel

[22:03:43]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: You seemed to be using rm commands when you had installed from packages.

[22:04:06]

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[22:04:18]

jolaren:

I can't find my remote under /bus/..

[22:04:29]

wagnerrp:

fugdnscerd: open up python, and run 'import sys; sys.path'

[22:04:32]

jolaren:

and when I say remote I mean receiver? /proc/bus/input/devices

[22:04:39]

wagnerrp:

that is the module search order

[22:04:43]

fugdnscerd:

i removed all myth packages and somehow i still had old libs being called. so i did make uninstall. removed all myth libraries, and did a fresh make install

[22:04:48]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: It actually does not matter what I think. In some way your specific set up has this path issue and I certainly cannot help.

[22:04:51]

wagnerrp:

make sure the bindings are in one of those directories

[22:04:54]

kormoc:

jolaren: depending on the remote, it might not be there

[22:05:07]

wagnerrp:

and the old version of the bindings is not in a directory preceding it in the order

[22:05:13]

jolaren:

kormoc: It's the remote for the Hauppage wintv nova-t 500 and according to the wiki it should be there

[22:05:24]

bjd:

jolaren: what distro?

[22:05:44]

jolaren:

bjd: ubuntu basic server + myth frontend + backend

[22:05:55]

bjd:

same as me, mine is in /dev/input

[22:06:14]

jolaren:

oh will take a look

[22:06:25]

bjd:

i have symlinked dvb-ir to eventX

[22:06:38]

bjd:

and configured lirc to use dvb-ir

[22:06:55]

bjd:

/dev/input/dvb-ir even

[22:08:06]

bjd:

jolaren: http://parker1.co.uk/mythtv_ubuntu2.php

[22:08:11]

bjd:

check teh remote control bit

[22:08:58]

fugdnscerd:

wagnerrp: /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages, which is where the egg-info files are installed, is indeed in the path

[22:09:04]

jolaren:

thanks bjd

[22:11:45]

fugdnscerd:

here is the results from python and a listing of the corresponding dir http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1840316

[22:12:26]

wagnerrp:

and whats in /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/MythTV

[22:13:54]

fugdnscerd:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1840322

[22:14:19]

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[22:15:23]

fugdnscerd:

need a recursive listing?

[22:15:39]

wagnerrp:

nope, just that directory is fine

[22:20:03]

fugdnscerd:

maybe i need to check with a python channel?

[22:20:29]

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[22:20:53]

wagnerrp:

could you paste that __init__.py (and pyc)?

[22:23:18]

fugdnscerd:

is the pyc file supposed to be all text.. parts of it look like maybe its binary

[22:23:53]

wagnerrp:

its a tokenized file

[22:23:59]

wagnerrp:

somewhat binary, mostly text

[22:24:13]

wagnerrp:

basically, i just want to make sure it looks like it came from the __init__.py

[22:24:46]

fugdnscerd:

http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1840364

[22:25:26]

wagnerrp:

that is the proper file...

[22:26:22]

wagnerrp:

its in the right place, its loading all the right stuff

[22:26:24]

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[22:26:27]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea why it wouldnt work

[22:27:37]

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[22:28:18]

fugdnscerd:

ill see if i can find a python channel and let you guys know what i find

[22:30:05]

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[22:49:50]

fugdnscerd:

heh, well the python guys had me do a test, and it seems to be importing MythTV bindings ok. But they say DBData, used by Jamu, and OldRecorded, used by mirobridge don't exist in the bindings

[22:50:17]

wagnerrp:

then its importing the wrong version of the bindings

[22:50:41]

fugdnscerd:

how do i remove the old and install the new

[22:51:02]

wagnerrp:

you already installed the new, over top of the old

[22:51:08]

RDV_Linux:

wagnerrp: If he has moved to trunk can he specifically remove the old bindings and fix this issue?

[22:51:18]

wagnerrp:

sure

[22:51:35]

fugdnscerd:

can i just do an rm -R on the MythTV bindings dir

[22:51:47]

wagnerrp:

just delete everything mythtv in /usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages

[22:51:53]

kormoc:

check both /usr/blah and /usr/local/blah

[22:52:00]

wagnerrp:

and what kormoc said too

[22:55:02]

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[23:01:00]

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[23:01:53]

Beirdo:

ah come ON

[23:02:14]

Beirdo:

my PC won't come up properly... leave it for a week and it turns into a pile o crap?

[23:02:34]

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[23:03:05]

iamlindoro:

Aw don't say that, you can use a pile of crap for something ;)

[23:03:10]

iamlindoro:

fertilizer, vengeance

[23:03:21]

fugdnscerd:

vengeance :-D

[23:03:28]

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[23:03:41]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:03:51]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, this is disconcerting

[23:03:52]

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[23:04:06]

Beirdo:

now it won't even finish the BIOS startup!?

[23:04:07]

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[23:04:10]

Beirdo:

OK, I need beer

[23:04:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah, ive got an old AthXP next to my windows box that i would use for mythtv

[23:04:36]

wagnerrp:

wont even post any longer

[23:05:18]

Beirdo:

well this is odd

[23:05:25]

Beirdo:

I open the case, and it boots right up

[23:05:27]

Beirdo:

hehe

[23:05:40]

Beirdo:

wonder if a power cable end was touching somethint

[23:05:56]

Beirdo:

stupid Dell Precision Workstation 650

[23:05:56]

jolaren:

I still can't get lock on some of my free channels

[23:06:01]

jolaren:

even after reinstall of the OS

[23:08:16]

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[23:09:21]

jolaren:

What could be wrong?

[23:09:27]

jolaren:

reception? I get two of the channels perfect

[23:09:35]

sceo:

I just did a new Mythbuntu install. I was able to "scan for changes" after settings up videos, but I only see the top-level directory of videos. I have more videos in sub-folders... how do I get it to recurse?

[23:11:54]

wagnerrp:

you dont, it automatically does

[23:12:47]

sceo:

doh, permissions problem.

[23:13:00]

Beirdo:

ooh ooh, it's magic!

[23:15:31]

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[23:20:50]

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[23:21:42]

jolaren:

btw guys

[23:21:51]

jolaren:

it got solved by clicking check encrypt..

[23:22:24]

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[23:25:32]

sceo:

is there any easy way to find my mysql mythtv db password without running mythtv-setup, like in a config file somewhere?

[23:26:52]

clever:

sceo: its in the ~/.mythtv/ folder

[23:26:59]

clever:

either config.xml or mysql.txt usualy

[23:27:01]

kormoc:

~/.mythtv/config.xml

[23:27:15]

sceo:

clever kormoc thanks!

[23:28:01]

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[23:35:45]

fugdnscerd:

RDV_Linux, wagnerrp, kormoc the bindings now work. same issue with the mythlibs, I found 0.21 bindings in a different directory in the python syspath I appreciate all of your guys help

[23:36:11]

RDV_Linux:

fugdnscerd: Glad to hear it.

[23:36:19]

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[23:36:36]

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[23:36:44]

k-man:

are hitachi drives any good?

[23:38:31]

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[23:39:20]

zand is now known as xand

[23:39:42]

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[23:45:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

k-man: I've been running a pair of 500's on my backend 24x7 for a year or so now, no issues.

[23:46:59]

k-man:

J-e-f-f-A: ok, fair enough, how is their sound level?

[23:47:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

k-man: I couldn't tell you... ;-) My backend is pretty loud...

[23:47:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

k-man: Lots of fans, 8 HDDs... ;-)

[23:48:01]

k-man:

J-e-f-f-A: ok

[23:48:04]

k-man:

thanks

[23:49:49]

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[23:51:24]

k-man:

are these "eco friendly" usually slower? ie, the WD Caviar Green for instance – i notice that WD don't say what the spindle speed is on it

[23:51:45]

iamlindoro:

The WD green are variable speed

[23:51:53]

k-man:

iamlindoro: ah, isee

[23:52:03]

k-man:

thats new to me, interesting

[23:52:17]

k-man:

are they supposed to be any good those drives?

[23:52:32]

iamlindoro:

which do between 5600 and 7200 depending on the power saving mode.. I have dozens of the WD greens, they have treated be great

[23:52:50]

k-man:

iamlindoro: dozens? cripes ;)

[23:52:55]

k-man:

thats good to hear though, thanks

[23:53:01]

iamlindoro:

np

[23:53:18]

k-man:

i was going to ge the hitachi but MSY's site is so aweful I couldn't face it, ill get the WD instead

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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