| Wednesday, February 3rd, 2010, 00:00 UTC | ||
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| [00:05:39] | EnderTheThird: | iamlindoro: What program did you use to make your watermark icons in Arclight? |
| [00:07:05] | sphery: | inkscape, I think |
| [00:07:29] | sphery: | EnderTheThird: are you doing a theme? |
| [00:07:53] | EnderTheThird: | sphery: no, just making icons for my XBMC and Hulu Desktop launchers |
| [00:08:04] | sphery: | ah, yeah, that's right |
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| [00:08:19] | EnderTheThird: | Yeah, I thought I mentioned it to you last time. :-) |
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| [00:08:40] | sphery: | yeah, my memory isn't nearly as good as I've convinced people it is :) |
| [00:09:51] | EnderTheThird: | Ha, I'm definitely not judging. |
| [00:12:00] | jst_: | "A QAM tuner provides the transmission of some digital cable channels without the need of a set top box. Many TVs manufactured after 2006 include a QAM tuner." Would this work with tuners like the HVR-1600/1800? |
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| [00:12:08] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Dibblah | |
| [00:12:26] | wagnerrp: | where is that? |
| [00:12:32] | jst_: | FiOS. |
| [00:12:40] | wagnerrp: | a 'tuner' does not provide the transmission of anything |
| [00:13:11] | jst_: | I know, the wording is confusing. Wouldn't one still need a CableCard? |
| [00:13:27] | wagnerrp: | and any QAM tuner usable by mythtv, or on a tv without cablecard will only be able to pick up the unencrypted channels |
| [00:13:40] | wagnerrp: | which likely means only the 'must carry' local stations |
| [00:13:53] | jst_: | Right. |
| [00:13:55] | wagnerrp: | check silicondust.com for a lineup of what you should expect to get in the clear |
| [00:14:14] | wagnerrp: | they have a database, searchable by zip code |
| [00:15:22] | jst_: | Wow, 193 prorgams in the clear. |
| [00:15:24] | jst_: | http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_w . . . neup_1543594 |
| [00:15:35] | jst_: | I guess I'll be going with Comcast when I move. |
| [00:15:59] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [00:16:44] | jst_: | ? |
| [00:16:56] | wagnerrp: | chances are those are a bunch of channels that will have 'privacy mode' enabled for use with the cheap DTAs comcast is rolling out in replacement of analog cable |
| [00:17:31] | jst_: | Yeah, I was reading about those. |
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| [00:17:43] | EnderTheThird: | And a lot will be the preview and guide channels that come up on your STB. Look at some of the screenshots in that link |
| [00:17:52] | jst_: | I think I'll use two DTAs and one STB/HDPVR. |
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| [00:21:50] | sphery: | jst_: or OTA and an antenna |
| [00:22:10] | jst_: | sphery, unacceptable. I need Speed and ESPN. :) |
| [00:22:26] | sphery: | yeah, that won't work for those |
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| [00:59:56] | ** iamlindoro needs to start watching Caprica ** | |
| [00:59:57] | iamlindoro: | http://www.thetvdb.com/banners/fanart/original/85040-2.jpg |
| [01:00:17] | skd5aner: | who's the actress? |
| [01:00:33] | iamlindoro: | who cares |
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| [01:04:37] | jolaren: | If I have two pci cards.. can they work with 1 reader? |
| [01:06:06] | SirColin: | huh |
| [01:06:50] | Beirdo: | ugh |
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| [01:10:16] | Beirdo: | wow. This apple vodka is good :) |
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| [01:11:45] | sark666: | f |
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| [01:13:05] | sark666: | i've been using myth for a few years now, but since .21 i had an issue with my framegrabber. (zoltrix tv genie). I believe it's capturing feilds out of order. All content looks interlaced. I even set capture res at 240 lines and it still appears interlaced |
| [01:13:09] | Beirdo: | !help |
| [01:13:16] | Beirdo: | yup, it's silent |
| [01:13:18] | Beirdo: | bother |
| [01:13:28] | sark666: | but when capturing half-frame it shouldn't have interlacing artifacts |
| [01:13:59] | sark666: | i thought it might be somthing with the tuner itself, but in tvtime it's fine. |
| [01:14:49] | sark666: | also, recordings prior to the upgrade do not have the issue. so it's not playback but during recording |
| [01:15:11] | sark666: | i just upgraded to .22 hoping it would resolve itself but it's still the same |
| [01:15:20] | sark666: | is there a way to force a field swap? |
| [01:15:25] | jolaren: | Btw for you guys who haven't seen http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11565 |
| [01:15:28] | jolaren: | myth tv supports |
| [01:15:30] | jolaren: | 15usd |
| [01:15:32] | jolaren: | ^^ |
| [01:17:49] | sark666: | i've googled a lot but can't find anything on field order. |
| [01:17:59] | sark666: | i take it not many are still using framegrabbers? |
| [01:19:28] | jolaren: | I have a framegrabber at home, alot of ppl here said it was useless |
| [01:19:32] | jolaren: | so I gave it away |
| [01:19:35] | jolaren: | apart from that I don't know |
| [01:19:55] | jolaren: | Btw, would a cable splitter (so I could use two cards with one antenna) affect the quality of my picture? |
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| [01:20:53] | Beirdo: | it could |
| [01:21:21] | Beirdo: | you get signal loss with splitters... how noticable it would be depends on how strong the signal was to start with |
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| [01:21:53] | ** sphery doesn't understand why so many people would rather run an unsupported configuration than spend 3 minutes making a dummy tuner for their "tunerless" backend ** | |
| [01:21:58] | Beirdo: | if you amplify before splitting, you might not even notice |
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| [01:23:33] | Beirdo: | jeez |
| [01:23:40] | ** Beirdo slaps direcpc. ** | |
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| [01:24:08] | Beirdo: | jst_home... yer flapping in the breeze. |
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| [01:32:02] | jolaren: | Beirdo; I'll give it a try then |
| [01:32:07] | jolaren: | cuz the tuner is soo cheap |
| [01:32:08] | jolaren: | :p |
| [01:34:26] | Beirdo: | I used a 4-way splitting setup when I still had analog cable |
| [01:34:34] | Beirdo: | with pre-amplification |
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| [01:36:40] | jolaren: | I guess this is the wrong place to ask but a while back I bought a hauppage wintv nova-t 500 card for my server |
| [01:36:44] | jolaren: | a remote came with the deal.. |
| [01:36:52] | jolaren: | thing is the receiver is a cord thingy you plug into the card |
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| [01:37:11] | jolaren: | so my question is, is it possible to get annother receiver or smoehow remake the cord to a regular usb? |
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| [01:41:55] | wagnerrp: | Beirdo: if youre still around, ive got a bug submission... the webpage seems to generate the wrong 'dash' in links |
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| [01:42:12] | Beirdo: | oh? |
| [01:42:32] | Beirdo: | you have an example? |
| [01:42:38] | wagnerrp: | see iamlindoro's thetvdb link from around 8pm |
| [01:42:48] | wagnerrp: | looks like it would be 9pm |
| [01:43:01] | wagnerrp: | the dash is the wrong dash |
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| [01:43:21] | wagnerrp: | looks right, but its slightly longer than the correct dash |
| [01:43:59] | Beirdo: | how odd |
| [01:44:14] | wagnerrp: | ive noticed that a couple times the last couple months |
| [01:44:52] | Beirdo: | OK, I'll go investigate in the db to see how it's stored |
| [01:45:13] | wagnerrp: | didnt mean you had to fix it now, just wanted to bring it to your attention |
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| [01:45:51] | Beirdo: | no problem. I've never noticed it before, would just like to know where the problem lies |
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| [01:54:21] | jolaren: | Are there tuners who supports like 4 x ? |
| [01:54:49] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: it looks fine in the db |
| [01:54:59] | Beirdo: | my guess its in the PHP |
| [01:55:06] | wagnerrp: | theres a couple specialized and not-yet available cablecard tuners |
| [01:55:11] | wagnerrp: | not like that would do much good for mythtv |
| [01:55:29] | Beirdo: | which was originally written by xris, but I'll see what I find :) |
| [01:55:49] | sark666: | is there a way to force field swap on capture? |
| [01:56:01] | wagnerrp: | eh? |
| [01:56:20] | sark666: | i believe my tuner has the incorrect field order when capturing |
| [01:57:02] | wagnerrp: | you might want to try in #linuxtv |
| [01:57:20] | wagnerrp: | not many people in here would use framegrabbers, or even know what that means |
| [01:57:32] | wagnerrp: | probably only a couple of devs who could answer your question |
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| [02:05:24] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: that bug will only happen if the – is between two numbers |
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| [02:16:15] | Beirdo: | wagnerrp: ok, fixed |
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| [02:16:47] | Beirdo: | I told it NOT to make that subsitution inside a link (much the same as how he made that exception elsewhere) |
| [02:17:06] | Beirdo: | now to change it where it matters... in git :) |
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| [02:32:10] | sark666: | wagnerrp, has everyone pretty much gone digital at the point? I would think people in some areas would still have to resort to analogue framegrabbers with encrypted digital tv |
| [02:32:51] | wagnerrp: | sark666: tons of people are still using analog because they have to to receive encrypted digital tv |
| [02:33:17] | wagnerrp: | however they uses IVTV cards (mpeg encoders), or HDPVRs (h264 encoders) |
| [02:33:37] | sark666: | ah |
| [02:33:40] | wagnerrp: | framegrabbers are no good for much other than livetv |
| [02:33:51] | wagnerrp: | and since mythtv doesnt do livetv, theyre not much good for mythtv |
| [02:34:24] | jolaren: | What do you mean doesn't do livetv? Ah, you mean since it records constantly |
| [02:34:24] | jolaren: | nvm |
| [02:34:32] | sphery: | stupid local channel puts a news promo on top of the pop-ups on LOST |
| [02:34:34] | Beirdo: | there we go. all fixed, and checked into git |
| [02:34:34] | sark666: | why not? i've used a few over the years. of course you can schedule recordings. there's no reason why they are only for livetv |
| [02:34:59] | wagnerrp: | 'livetv' implies that you are pumping straight from the tuner card into the video card's frame buffer |
| [02:35:25] | wagnerrp: | mythtv always has at least a couple second lag as it compresses and writes to disk |
| [02:35:43] | Beirdo: | and then decompressed |
| [02:35:45] | sark666: | well not too long ago, everyone was pretty much using framegrabbers... but ya things change. but there's no reason why they shouldn't still work |
| [02:35:57] | sark666: | it worked fine for me for years... |
| [02:36:11] | jolaren: | win95 worked fine for me |
| [02:36:12] | jolaren: | for years |
| [02:36:24] | sark666: | heh.point taken |
| [02:36:44] | wagnerrp: | sure they work, theyre just a paint to deal with |
| [02:36:54] | wagnerrp: | pain |
| [02:37:15] | sark666: | well if it's a myth issue, it's a shame that what once worked is now broken, but because so few use it, no one notices |
| [02:37:18] | jolaren: | I have a framegrabber card, can't remember what brand either.. took it out cuz wagnerrp said it was pretty useless |
| [02:37:42] | wagnerrp: | i didnt say it was useless |
| [02:37:48] | wagnerrp: | i said it was a pain to get working |
| [02:37:59] | wagnerrp: | and youre better off spending $20 on ebay for an old PVR150 |
| [02:38:10] | jolaren: | yer true |
| [02:38:21] | jolaren: | btw did you see the 15 usd dvb-t card I linked? |
| [02:38:23] | jolaren: | pretty sweet |
| [02:38:34] | wagnerrp: | the USB tuners? |
| [02:38:51] | jolaren: | uhm dno if that's what it should be adressed as |
| [02:39:06] | jolaren: | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.11565 |
| [02:39:12] | sark666: | for me they always just worked. no pain setting them up. one time bttv detected one incorrectly, but that's about it. |
| [02:39:28] | sark666: | and i'm not too keen on hardware encoders... |
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| [02:39:46] | wagnerrp: | the problem is that you need a decent amount of CPU for each tuner |
| [02:39:49] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; I'm thinkin about gettin that cuz my girl always wants to watch somethin else then me |
| [02:39:53] | wagnerrp: | and you have to deal with audio capture |
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| [02:40:04] | jolaren: | pci is better rite? |
| [02:40:40] | wagnerrp: | framegrabber audio capture has always been a troubling issue for users in here, while encoder cards sidestep the whole issue |
| [02:41:09] | wagnerrp: | easier to set up, easier to support, just better to deal with all around |
| [02:41:12] | sark666: | well this post has some nice points against hardware encoders. |
| [02:41:14] | sark666: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/248358#248358 |
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| [02:41:49] | sark666: | but you make good points and I'm enclinded to agree for the most part, but again it's a shame that what once worked no longer does |
| [02:42:19] | wagnerrp: | framegrabbers still work just the same as they always have with mythtv |
| [02:42:30] | Beirdo: | you're quoting a 3 year old post? :) |
| [02:42:32] | jolaren: | 4 total: 1 x 64-bit/66MHz PCI-X slot, 1 x 32-bit/33MHz PCI slot, |
| [02:42:32] | jolaren: | dual embedded Gigabit NICs |
| [02:42:40] | Beirdo: | surely SOMETHING has changed in 3 years |
| [02:42:43] | sark666: | well it still works... but i have some weird field swap issue |
| [02:42:46] | jolaren: | my server outputs |
| [02:42:51] | sark666: | i've had it since .21 |
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| [02:43:13] | kormoc (kormoc!~kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [02:43:14] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc | |
| [02:43:31] | jolaren: | is there any good pci-x cards? |
| [02:43:38] | Beirdo: | heya, kormoc |
| [02:43:51] | kormoc: | Mornin' Mr. Beirdo! How goes it? |
| [02:43:56] | Beirdo: | meh |
| [02:44:04] | Beirdo: | looking for work in Seattle again |
| [02:44:06] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: anything youre going to find in PCI-X form is probably going to be a industrial security card |
| [02:44:19] | sark666: | yes it's an older post, but some of the points are still valid. you are always limited options-wise with a hardware encoder |
| [02:44:30] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; oh rite lool |
| [02:44:42] | kormoc: | Beirdo: So I've heard. I've been keeping an eye out for ya |
| [02:44:52] | wagnerrp: | sark666: my comment is that most users dont use framegrabbers, i dont think any devs still use framegrabbers, and youre just not likely to find someone versed in that issue in here |
| [02:44:55] | Beirdo: | got a phone interview on Friday |
| [02:45:00] | Beirdo: | hope that all goes well |
| [02:45:19] | iamlindoro: | not only do most of the devs not use framegrabbers, most of the devs don't even use analog period |
| [02:45:20] | jamesd2: | pci-x is probably best for Nic's and disk controllers... and total over kill for video capture... |
| [02:45:29] | kormoc: | Beirdo: Indeed. Where at if I might inquire? |
| [02:45:34] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [02:45:36] | iamlindoro: | ergo nobody caring much about analog channel scan not working right now |
| [02:45:40] | Beirdo: | starts with g, ends with e |
| [02:45:49] | kormoc: | Ooh! Congratz! |
| [02:45:57] | kormoc: | Those are a bit... rough :) |
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| [02:46:00] | Beirdo: | thanks :) Here's hoping |
| [02:46:46] | kormoc: | Indeed! |
| [02:46:48] | jolaren: | jamesd2; Yer, I reckon.. I just have no useage for it so I thought why not plug in a card |
| [02:46:52] | jolaren: | I only have 2 usb ports |
| [02:47:42] | Beirdo: | meanwhile, I'm just relaxing tonight... having some nice apple vodka from upstate NY |
| [02:47:54] | jolaren: | the big apple ;) |
| [02:48:17] | kormoc: | Ooh! Yum |
| [02:48:19] | Beirdo: | it's called "Core Vodka" in case anyone's inclined to use google to find out :) |
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| [02:48:42] | kormoc: | Beirdo: worthy of acquiring? |
| [02:48:49] | Beirdo: | I bought it at the micro-distillery/apple orchard August 2008 |
| [02:48:59] | Beirdo: | just opened it tonight |
| [02:49:09] | Beirdo: | yeah, but they don't ship out of NY |
| [02:49:11] | Beirdo: | heh |
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| [02:49:17] | Beirdo: | I like it |
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| [02:49:37] | jamesd2: | jolaren, a lot of people doing home fileservers would love to have a motherboard with a pci-x slot.. ebay has lots of cheap io boards and nics.. that would overwhelm a standard pci slot, and pci-e is too expensive to do a home system |
| [02:49:46] | kormoc: | Heh, well, when I head over to the east coast, I'll see what I can do :) |
| [02:49:49] | jolaren: | Got any suggestions on what I could use my server for? I got a dedicated 100/100mbits connection for it and it seems like such a waste just having it run myth for me |
| [02:50:04] | Beirdo: | what yer leaving the NW? |
| [02:50:24] | kormoc: | Beirdo: I visit the east semi-often, Family, Friends, Conferences, etc |
| [02:50:25] | jolaren: | jamesd2; Could you describe the useage of it abit more.. Sorry for my incompetence |
| [02:50:29] | Beirdo: | ooooh |
| [02:50:33] | jamesd2: | jolaren, dns, proxy, mythtv, lamp stack, xen/virtual box |
| [02:50:41] | Beirdo: | OK. This place is near the MA border |
| [02:50:55] | Beirdo: | I could find it on a map should you head out there sometime |
| [02:51:01] | kormoc: | Sounds grand :) |
| [02:51:23] | Beirdo: | I drove there from Hartford |
| [02:51:24] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [02:51:47] | jamesd2: | jolaren, pci-X is very hight bandwidth, from memory its good for upto 512MB/s so great for multiple sata drives or dual or more port gigabit ports.. these cards are cheap on ebay.... and perfect for home fileservers |
| [02:51:48] | wagnerrp: | jamesd2: no it isnt |
| [02:52:08] | wagnerrp: | not if youre buying retail, and not picking up 2nd hand hardware |
| [02:52:26] | jolaren: | retail is expensive as **** |
| [02:52:36] | jolaren: | but I'm not really out for the most stable hardware there is |
| [02:52:41] | jamesd2: | wagnerrp, yes i meant for the home user... |
| [02:52:44] | wagnerrp: | bah, you can pick up a nice non-raid SAS card for $200 |
| [02:53:01] | jolaren: | which is even more then I bought out my server for |
| [02:53:15] | jamesd2: | i can pickup a new pci-x 8x sata card for $120 new... |
| [02:53:15] | wagnerrp: | something with a ton of ports, and the capability for port expanders |
| [02:54:19] | jamesd2: | home users can do quite well with used servers especially if they want a fileserver that holds lots of disks |
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| [02:55:16] | wagnerrp: | meh... ive become disenchanted with ebay |
| [02:55:22] | wagnerrp: | picked up too much garbage hardware off it |
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| [02:55:45] | Beirdo: | the sniping buttwipes ruined it for me |
| [02:55:58] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, Why do I have a feeling I need to go re-check every screen in Arclight after r23450? |
| [02:56:08] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; use dealextreme lad |
| [02:56:13] | jolaren: | i'm lovin it |
| [02:56:25] | wagnerrp: | ive gotten some stuff off there, nothing lasted very long |
| [02:56:34] | jolaren: | really? |
| [02:56:50] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, this isn't the qrectf conversion. if anything, it will make your theme look much better at non-native resolutions. |
| [02:56:51] | wagnerrp: | couple 'new' scsi drives that both failed within a couple months |
| [02:56:58] | jolaren: | Sad to hear that |
| [02:57:05] | jolaren: | I vouche dealextreme all the time |
| [02:57:16] | jolaren: | It's my favorite foreign buy stuff site |
| [02:57:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, I'd appreciate if you used your eagle eye on your own theme though to spot check a couple screens that don't use JPP's patch. |
| [02:57:25] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, knew it wasn't the qrectf thing, just sounded like it might affect the pixel-perfect buttonlist placing in AL |
| [02:57:43] | iamlindoro: | I'll compile and check |
| [02:57:50] | iamlindoro: | nothing to do 'til LOST anyway |
| [02:58:26] | jolaren: | Oh rite! New episodes of Paradise Hotel is out! |
| [02:58:31] | jolaren: | My backend crashed today, severly |
| [02:58:35] | kormoc: | I need a record in order scheduler option before I'll start watching LOST :) |
| [02:58:57] | iamlindoro: | they call it a DVD player ;) |
| [02:58:58] | Captain_Murdoch: | run your them at some oddball resolution like -O GuiHeight=562,GuiWidth=1000 and check out the screens first, then recompile and run at that res and see the difference. |
| [02:59:05] | Captain_Murdoch: | s/run your them/run your theme/ |
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| [02:59:15] | Captain_Murdoch: | 1000x562 = 16:9 |
| [03:00:04] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, Ah, I see what you are saying at that res |
| [03:01:02] | Captain_Murdoch: | that's what I'm trying to fix. :) people running at non-native resolutions, ie, at 720p instead of 1080 the theme is designed for, etc. |
| [03:01:13] | Captain_Murdoch: | non-theme-native I should say. |
| [03:01:26] | Captain_Murdoch: | 1024x768 on a theme designed for 800x600, etc. |
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| [03:01:52] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, hmm, actually, maybe I'm not seeing it-- just installed the new version but the single pixel spacing is still gone |
| [03:02:16] | Captain_Murdoch: | what screen are you looking at? |
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| [03:02:34] | kormoc: | iamlindoro: Did you get the tarballs/screen shots together or shall I do that now? |
| [03:02:54] | iamlindoro: | kormoc, I have the tarballs but they need to all be updated for a MythUI change-- give me a few minutes |
| [03:03:00] | kormoc: | Rgr |
| [03:03:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | I have some code in there which should prohibit single-pixel spacing from being scaled down to 0-pixel spacing. |
| [03:03:15] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, the PBB... everything else seemed to look normal before and after here |
| [03:03:18] | kormoc: | iamlindoro: We're going to host them ourselves? |
| [03:03:27] | iamlindoro: | kormoc, yeah, I think so |
| [03:03:31] | Captain_Murdoch: | PBB uses JPP's patch, so my code shouldn't affect it. |
| [03:03:32] | iamlindoro: | kormoc, or I can host them |
| [03:03:43] | kormoc: | iamlindoro: no problems, we can easily enough :) |
| [03:03:52] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, then I guess I am not clear what you were seeing-- Mythvideo, for example, looked fine here at that non-standard res without your changes |
| [03:04:51] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, holy crap, that change breaks the crap out of some buttonlists in Arclight, though |
| [03:04:56] | Captain_Murdoch: | look at something like your recording rules screen which uses the same-sized-buttons. then try that at various UI sizes. |
| [03:05:11] | iamlindoro: | I can re-adjust, but yikes |
| [03:05:14] | Captain_Murdoch: | which ones? |
| [03:05:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | it shouldn't be adding any space to a buttonlist if the buttons are already fitting correctly in the area. |
| [03:05:48] | iamlindoro: | Netvision search view, left buttonlist, mythgallery buttonlist, mythgame buttonlist... etc. |
| [03:06:06] | iamlindoro: | It's possible I was somehow compensating for the old system, but this is going to need a lot of tweaking |
| [03:06:22] | Captain_Murdoch: | let me go look at one, hold a sec. |
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| [03:06:37] | iamlindoro: | *all* my left hand buttonlists have a ton of inter-item spacing now |
| [03:06:42] | iamlindoro: | and many of the right hand ones too |
| [03:06:55] | iamlindoro: | causing most of them to overlap their arrows |
| [03:07:20] | iamlindoro: | If you are convinced this is a genuine bugfix, I will re-compensate |
| [03:07:28] | Captain_Murdoch: | at full res or that res I gave you? |
| [03:07:32] | iamlindoro: | at full res |
| [03:07:38] | iamlindoro: | (1360x768 right now) |
| [03:07:45] | Captain_Murdoch: | I thought your theme was 1920 |
| [03:08:01] | iamlindoro: | It is-- but until the last changeset it displayed properly at this res and 1920x1080 |
| [03:08:15] | iamlindoro: | I am saying it no longer displays properly on my 1360x768 screen |
| [03:08:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | ok, hold a sec and let me look. I need to recompile plugins. |
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| [03:09:18] | Captain_Murdoch: | do you have a non-plugin example I could look at? |
| [03:10:18] | stoth (stoth!~stoth@ool-18bfe0d5.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | |
| [03:10:36] | Captain_Murdoch: | is PBB's left hand side an example? |
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| [03:11:24] | iamlindoro: | there, and any place that inherits that buttonlist |
| [03:11:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | ok, checking something. |
| [03:11:51] | iamlindoro: | now has ~4ish pixels between each item |
| [03:11:57] | iamlindoro: | but the buttonlist itself has a spacing of 1 |
| [03:12:15] | iamlindoro: | actually, it inherits down and then gets a spacing of 0 |
| [03:12:20] | iamlindoro: | but definitely not 4 ;) |
| [03:12:46] | iamlindoro: | also now seeing inconsistent spacing between buttonitems like with your qrectf patch again |
| [03:12:53] | iamlindoro: | two sometimes, sometimes one, etc. |
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| [03:14:00] | iamlindoro: | again, if you can confirm that the changeset makes it as it should be, I am fine with adjusting the theme to compensate, but it would rather be sure that the spacing was going to stop moving around so I might wait for your qRectf bits |
| [03:14:01] | ZathaeL: | Sorry for all the leaving and joining. I didn't realize I had to register my nick before I could speak |
| [03:14:11] | ZathaeL: | I freely admit I'm an idiot |
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| [03:17:20] | ZathaeL: | Anyway....I've got an interesting issue with my system that I was hoping you guys might have a solution for. I currently have 2 tuners. One uses an older, cable box without high-def, the other uses the HD capable cable box and records through an HD-PVR. I have two input sources setup in Myth, "All Channels" and "No HD" |
| [03:17:43] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, what's the name of the button scroll indicators? |
| [03:17:47] | ZathaeL: | in the "No HD" input source, I have all the HD channels set with visible=false |
| [03:18:23] | hadees (hadees!~hadees@user-0ccsg23.cable.mindspring.com) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [03:18:36] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, upscrollarrow/downscrollarrow, both statetypes |
| [03:18:42] | ZathaeL: | However, when I'm in Live TV and on the tuner associated with the "No HD" listings, if I change channel to one of the HD channels, it still tries to do it on the Non-HD tuner |
| [03:18:48] | ZathaeL: | is there a way to avoid this? |
| [03:19:27] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, filenames off the top of your head? |
| [03:19:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | want to know the size actually and was going to look at the images. |
| [03:20:01] | iamlindoro: | images/arclight_popup_uparrow.png |
| [03:20:13] | iamlindoro: | images/arclight_popup_downarrow.png |
| [03:20:27] | Captain_Murdoch: | ok, 21x18. |
| [03:20:44] | sphery: | heh, in LOST: Final Chapter, when introducing the people, they say, "an estranged couple" for Jin and Sun, but the captions read, "and a strange couple" |
| [03:21:05] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, I'm sure you're following a logical path, but obviously my greater concern is that the <spacing> tag appears to be entirely ignored now |
| [03:21:22] | iamlindoro: | and, in fact, appears to be variable |
| [03:21:25] | Captain_Murdoch: | it isn't, believe me. :) |
| [03:21:30] | iamlindoro: | (ie the spacing is not consistent between buttons) |
| [03:21:41] | Captain_Murdoch: | I don't touch spacing, I only touch positions and sizes of buttons. |
| [03:21:56] | sphery: | ZathaeL: there's a bug (that some think is desired behavior) where visible is not respected for LiveTV |
| [03:21:57] | iamlindoro: | I believe you... but we can agree that it now makes the theme look like hell ;) |
| [03:22:26] | sphery: | ZathaeL: so you need to reconfigure your system... You need to delete the channels from each video source that can't be received on the input associated with that video source |
| [03:22:27] | ZathaeL: | ahhhh |
| [03:22:43] | sphery: | so on the "No HD" video source, delete all the HD channels |
| [03:22:56] | ZathaeL: | well, if I delete them from the DB, mythfilldatabase just readds them when it runs |
| [03:23:09] | sphery: | and you may need to set a value for the mythfilldatabase arguments setting of --remove-new-channels |
| [03:23:16] | sphery: | (I'm assuming you're using Schedules Direct) |
| [03:23:21] | ZathaeL: | I am |
| [03:23:29] | sphery: | so, yeah, you need to set --remove-new-channels |
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| [03:23:43] | ZathaeL: | ok, that's awesome sphery |
| [03:24:09] | ZathaeL: | I take it I'll need to occasionally run mythfilldatabase without that arguement just to get new channels...? |
| [03:24:17] | high-rez: | Pardon my ignorace here... I' |
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| [03:24:45] | high-rez: | I'd like to better understand the custonm filters for vdpau. Specifically with regards to ivtc. |
| [03:24:45] | sphery: | ZathaeL: if you get new channels, then you can (but you'll have to re-delete all the channels you don't want) |
| [03:25:07] | sphery: | ZathaeL: the other option is to set up 2 different lineups at Schedules Direct, each containing only the desired channels for that source |
| [03:25:25] | ZathaeL: | cool. One more questions, can I just do a "delete from channel where...." in mysql to delte the channels, or do I need to use the channel editing tools in mythtv-setup or myhtweb? |
| [03:25:38] | sphery: | I highly recommend the channel editor |
| [03:25:56] | ZathaeL: | yeah, Schedules direct won't let you do that for the same "listings", or at least wouldn't last time I checked |
| [03:25:57] | sphery: | in mythtv-setup just hit D and the channel is removed |
| [03:26:10] | ZathaeL: | I'll check again before I delete the channels |
| [03:27:02] | sphery: | ZathaeL: yeah, you can usually find an alternative (i.e. for the analog channels chose the cable analog package or just choose a neighboring zip code and choose the same cable package) |
| [03:27:20] | ZathaeL: | cool |
| [03:27:28] | ZathaeL: | I really appreciate all your help, sphery |
| [03:27:30] | ZathaeL: | you're very kind |
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| [03:27:44] | sphery: | chances are you won't get many new channels, though--cable co's prefer removing channels unless you pay more money :) |
| [03:28:13] | ZathaeL: | hehe yeah |
| [03:28:33] | sphery: | anyway, you have a couple of options, so feel free to explore them |
| [03:28:37] | ZathaeL: | Comcast just added a ton here, so that's part of why I'm going through this |
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| [03:29:07] | ZathaeL: | I will. I'm going to go with the --remove-new-channels for now. I don't mind deleting them every once in a while. |
| [03:29:15] | sphery: | the mythfilldatabase arguments is either in mythfrontend settings or mythtv-setup but should be under General settings in whichever... |
| [03:29:23] | ZathaeL: | cool |
| [03:29:24] | sphery: | I don't remember whether we moved it before 0.22 or after... |
| [03:29:39] | sphery: | in trunk it's in mythtv-setup in 0.21-fixes it's in mythfrontend settings |
| [03:29:51] | sphery: | --remove-new-channels is probably the easiest |
| [03:29:52] | iamlindoro: | after |
| [03:30:30] | sphery: | and, if someone gets some work done he plans to do, it will be /very/ easy for you to "restore" the channels to the way you like them after the mythfilldatabase automatically adds new ones |
| [03:30:57] | sphery: | so sounds like mythfilldatabase args is still in mythfrontend settings in 0.22 |
| [03:33:47] | ZathaeL: | yup, looks like, I just looked in mythtv-setup |
| [03:34:39] | sphery: | iamlindoro has a much better memory than I |
| [03:34:44] | ZathaeL: | heheh |
| [03:34:53] | iamlindoro: | only on my pet stuff |
| [03:35:04] | jolaren: | For the record, has anyone of you managed to use mythtv for windows? |
| [03:35:07] | sphery: | so you never forget to buy dog food? |
| [03:35:32] | sphery: | What's this windows thing you speak of? |
| [03:36:24] | ZathaeL: | ok, awesome, that's got it. Thanks so much! |
| [03:37:09] | sphery: | enjoy |
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| [03:37:35] | jamesd2: | jolaren, last i look you had to build it your self, and its quite involved... best to build a small linux box to use as a myth backend and then use mythtv player to watch shows... |
| [03:38:04] | jolaren: | yer sure the backend would b linux all the time |
| [03:38:08] | jolaren: | I'm thinkin bout me girls computer |
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| [03:38:20] | jolaren: | perhaps I could hook her up with a dualboot or smth |
| [03:39:04] | jolaren: | she's not really in-to the linux enviroment so to speak |
| [03:39:08] | jamesd2: | jolaren, a dual boot wouldn't work well for a backend... can't record tv when in windows... just need linux for the backend, and then use mythtvplayer for windows to watch tv show.... |
| [03:39:16] | jolaren: | jamesd2; I reckon that |
| [03:39:17] | sphery: | I would just use a Samba share and mythrename.pl --link and use something like VLC or MPC if I were forced to use Windows |
| [03:39:23] | jolaren: | the backend is a stand-alone linux server |
| [03:40:00] | sphery: | though I highly recommend using mythfrontend for all real MythTV usage (i.e. only use a Windows box for playback when you're working in MS Office and want a distraction in a window on the side) |
| [03:40:19] | jolaren: | I compiled it for windows a few days ago but It complained about my server beein 7 versions behind tho |
| [03:40:27] | jolaren: | tho it wasnt |
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| [03:40:52] | wagnerrp: | because you compiled trunk, while youre running fixes |
| [03:41:11] | jamesd2: | sphery, yes that could works, but hard to deal with dual boot of my son's laptop just to watch tv.. he is happy with mythtv player, it intergrates fairly well with mythtv's backend... |
| [03:41:27] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; yeah, might be so.. didn't really think about it |
| [03:41:36] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; but i'm not doin it again for a while.. can't be arsed really |
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| [03:43:02] | jolaren: | Are there any advantages in running the trunk rep on the server btw? |
| [03:43:08] | jolaren: | Or is it just plain stupid for the regular user |
| [03:43:33] | jamesd2: | jolaren, new features, older bugs could of been fixed, newer bugs introdued... |
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| [03:44:00] | jolaren: | So pretty much same-o same-o |
| [03:44:16] | jolaren: | Btw, the mythbuntu installer cd, if you choose only to install the backend.. will it bring X? |
| [03:44:27] | jolaren: | Just came to think about it the other day when I installed the live-cd |
| [03:45:05] | jamesd2: | i like the new user interface options for newer code, but dont want to deal with updating and finding new bugs... family hates not being able to watch tv because something broke |
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| [03:45:52] | jolaren: | yer i guess that' would rly be an issue round me aswell |
| [03:46:32] | jolaren: | I need two more tuners thought, thinkin about buyin yet annother hauppage card but their quite expensive |
| [03:46:57] | jolaren: | i'm goin insane when me girl watches one prog and my kid looks at annother one |
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| [03:47:19] | jamesd2: | its all a double edge sword us geeks live with, we all want to get our families excited about the technology, but once they do begin to like it... there is hell to pay when it breaks... |
| [03:47:59] | jolaren: | yer really |
| [03:49:45] | jolaren: | i dont want to waste my 2 usb slots either |
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| [03:50:42] | sphery: | jamesd2: IMHO, lying about the supported protocol and database schema version it supports isn't "integrates fairly well" :) |
| [03:50:59] | sphery: | though depending on what it does, it may not be too serious an issue |
| [03:51:19] | jamesd2: | you can get a usb hub but even at its best.. usb is good for little more than keyboards and mouses and slow disk |
| [03:52:20] | sphery: | definitely true |
| [03:52:26] | jamesd2: | sphery, users rarely care about protocols and database schemas.. they click on live TV, and pick a channel from the list or click on recorded shows and pick a recording to watch and then click on play and a window opens... |
| [03:52:27] | sphery: | I hope USB3 solves that issue |
| [03:53:04] | sphery: | jamesd2: until they click on LiveTV and find out that not only does the client fail to work, but so is the backend, because the client corrupted the data in the database... |
| [03:53:37] | jolaren: | usb hubs aren't that great are they? i mean I bet that will cause problems with the card reading part |
| [03:53:38] | sphery: | but if it's just reading data, it may not cause that issue |
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| [03:53:56] | sphery: | I would bet that with a USB hub, you'll have USB drop outs all the time |
| [03:54:11] | sphery: | Myth does /not/ like for anything to rip a card out from under it |
| [03:54:11] | jamesd2: | sphery, guess i have been lucky so far.. of course that could be considered a bug why can a frontend (non admin user) corrupt the database... |
| [03:54:31] | sphery: | because the client is hitting the DB directly |
| [03:54:38] | jolaren: | sphery; my thoughts exactly |
| [03:55:20] | jolaren: | i'm thinking about getting a 2x1 pci card .. but that would mean I have to run "topless" i.e without the top of my rack |
| [03:55:23] | jolaren: | that wouldnt b to good |
| [03:55:25] | sphery: | and, yeah, we need to solve that problem, but it means not only fixing myth to allow access to all data without direct DB access, but also means getting the 3rd party clients that don't care about protocols and schema versions to change |
| [03:55:35] | jamesd2: | sphery, clients should only be able to run select queries on the database, never insert.. except from an API that protects against corruption. |
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| [03:55:51] | sphery: | jamesd2: patches greatly appreciate |
| [03:55:59] | sphery: | though, really, the client should /never/ hit the DB |
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| [03:56:10] | sphery: | (nor should it need to) |
| [03:56:25] | sphery: | we've just got a long way to go to get there |
| [03:56:34] | sphery: | and we have tons of users who hit the DB directly because they can |
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| [03:56:42] | jamesd2: | sphery, true, exceptions would be to get a channel list or list of recorded shows... |
| [03:56:42] | sphery: | and stopping them all will be very difficult |
| [03:56:54] | sphery: | nope, even that should come directly from the backend |
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| [03:57:25] | jolaren: | btw is it possible to have 2 different logins to the mysql database? |
| [03:57:35] | wagnerrp: | sure |
| [03:58:03] | sphery: | but all myth backends and frontends will need ALL permissions on the DB, so... |
| [03:58:26] | keith4__: | oh man. 22 freakin' rocks |
| [03:58:31] | jamesd2: | jolaren, it only really gets complicated when you start debbuging issues about which login is being used... mysql is very flexible about user authenication. |
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| [03:58:44] | jolaren: | Aight |
| [03:58:54] | sphery: | keith4__: pretty isn't it :) |
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| [03:59:18] | keith4__: | the WAF is off the charts! |
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| [03:59:29] | jamesd2: | is there a linux distro that installs or better yet updates an older version of mythtv painlessly? |
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| [03:59:48] | jamesd2: | to version .22 |
| [04:00:38] | jolaren: | I'm still thinkin bout running mythtvxbmc |
| [04:00:41] | jolaren: | but I dislike the UI |
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| [04:01:15] | keith4__: | jamesd2: are you asking if .22 is packaged in any distros? |
| [04:01:28] | sphery: | jamesd2: I'd recommend the http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore + Mythbuntu 9.10 approach |
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| [04:01:33] | jamesd2: | keith4__, yes, perferably.. ubuntu |
| [04:01:43] | jolaren: | btw back to my question.. installing the mythbuntu 9.10 one option given on the live cd is particular "backend" bla bla bla... |
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| [04:02:01] | jolaren: | Does that come along with X and all the preq |
| [04:02:06] | sphery: | http://mythbuntu.org/ |
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| [04:02:20] | sphery: | that was for jamesd |
| [04:02:26] | sphery: | I don't know the answer to jolaren's question |
| [04:03:00] | keith4__: | jamesd2: it's packaged for ubuntu. http://packages.ubuntu.com/mythtv |
| [04:03:09] | sphery: | I know it will include X and prereq's, but I would guess that a backend only install will not configure GDM/KDM/XDM, will not necessarily start X, ... |
| [04:03:35] | sphery: | though Mythbuntu is ubuntu already configured for Myth, so much easier than Ubuntu + Myth |
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| [04:04:43] | jolaren: | yer I know |
| [04:04:43] | jolaren: | I've installed the frontend |
| [04:04:44] | jolaren: | and used the live cd persay but hm |
| [04:04:46] | jolaren: | okay I will look and see if it explains the packages chosen when pressin server |
| [04:05:27] | jolaren: | I was thinkin cuz I'll reinstall the server backend tomorrow |
| [04:05:29] | jolaren: | would save me time |
| [04:05:37] | jolaren: | Doesn't display any information regarding it |
| [04:05:40] | jolaren: | I will get back here when I know |
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| [04:06:42] | jamesd2: | keith4__, which would be more stable.. karmic or lucid i'm currently happy with jaunty but of course i'm drawn in by the new bells and whistles. |
| [04:06:55] | jolaren: | Btw, Does anyone know how much bandwith that is in use while watching something off the server? |
| [04:06:57] | jolaren: | Like example |
| [04:07:11] | keith4__: | jamesd2: no idea. i use the debian packages |
| [04:07:22] | keith4__: | ask #ubuntu? |
| [04:07:28] | jamesd2: | jolaren, HD shows is a maximum of 7GB an hour, devide by 60... |
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| [04:07:48] | jolaren: | so barely nothing |
| [04:07:57] | wagnerrp: | s/7/~8/ |
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| [04:08:02] | keith4__: | jolaren: it will varie widely. 100mbit is sufficient |
| [04:08:04] | jamesd2: | keith4__, i meant for the mythtv part, i assume the OS is stable enough to crash only once a month or so... and reboot automaticly... |
| [04:08:28] | jolaren: | I was just curious ^^ |
| [04:08:59] | jolaren: | I've heard from many who aren't mythtv users that it must use aalooot of bandwitdth, but I've been able to view it from a 7.2mps 3g modem |
| [04:09:09] | jolaren: | in my own home ofcourse |
| [04:09:22] | wagnerrp: | there are many forms of HD |
| [04:09:53] | wagnerrp: | ranging anywhere from bluray at ~40mbps, to complete garbage at ~2mbps |
| [04:10:16] | keith4__: | yah... Netflix passes off 3 to 4 mbit as HD |
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| [04:11:01] | jolaren: | Atm I only have SD channels anyways |
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| [04:14:14] | jolaren: | the live cd would really pwn to install the backend with if it doesnt bring all the garbage to it |
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| [04:15:14] | jolaren: | not that it's hard to setup otherwise |
| [04:15:18] | jolaren: | but it's time consuming |
| [04:16:04] | jolaren: | I'll make my own ISO someday |
| [04:16:07] | jolaren: | When I have time |
| [04:16:20] | jolaren: | ubuntu (or debian) minimal with backend configured |
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| [04:20:36] | keith4__: | why would you do that? |
| [04:20:52] | keith4__: | you could just install a minimal debian backend, and then install mythtv-backend from debian-multimedia |
| [04:20:56] | keith4__: | takes about 20 minutes |
| [04:22:05] | jolaren: | yer sure |
| [04:22:09] | jolaren: | but i'm thinkin bigger |
| [04:22:19] | jolaren: | for all of em who've got no knowledge in linux |
| [04:22:23] | jolaren: | an automated installation |
| [04:22:37] | ** jamesd2 beleives the day of rolling your own distros and code, are gone unless you are a developer.. in the beginning i used to rebuild kernels and software but these days its all ready made packages... ** | |
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| [04:22:38] | keith4__: | that's why there's mythbuntu, mythdora, etc. |
| [04:23:38] | jolaren: | this time around i'll go with debian on my server btw |
| [04:23:44] | jolaren: | ubuntu seems so instable compared to it |
| [04:24:29] | kc: | I am a little confused. You're talking about something being unstable while earlier you asked about running trunk... something is not quite right here :) |
| [04:24:45] | jolaren: | Haha |
| [04:24:49] | jamesd2: | i used to go with debian, but when i did my last mythtv install debian wasnt ready for use. |
| [04:25:05] | iamlindoro: | debians myth packages have been a wreck for years |
| [04:25:38] | iamlindoro: | and their packager won't listen to anyone who knows better when told that he's enabling configure switches that break myth |
| [04:25:45] | kc: | mythbuntu does install X and xfce dm as default no matter what you choose. The backend option you saw was primary/secondary backend. |
| [04:25:53] | iamlindoro: | and even worse, debian based distros inherit that brokenness |
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| [04:26:24] | jamesd2: | i love debian for small lamp servers, and other small tasks.. nice and stable, and easy.. its mythtv that changed it and for workstations ubuntu is nice its much nicer to configure gui's and stuff |
| [04:26:29] | medwards: | iamlindoro: thats weird. So what happens to Ubuntu's downstream packages? Does mythbuntu role their own stuff? |
| [04:26:39] | kc: | only has to do with the role of myth on the box, and has nothing to do with runnung headless etc. |
| [04:26:52] | keith4__: | iamlindoro: yah, they certainly take some tweaking to get working right |
| [04:26:55] | iamlindoro: | they do now, but for a long, long time they inherited Christian Marillat's package buildign mistakes |
| [04:27:04] | iamlindoro: | (which all still exist in debian) |
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| [04:27:35] | jolaren: | oh lol |
| [04:27:46] | jolaren: | jamesd2; I moved the iwndow to a new space |
| [04:27:47] | jolaren: | :p |
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| [04:28:40] | jolaren: | i dislike guis |
| [04:28:50] | jolaren: | if i need something gui'ed ill use x forwarding |
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| [04:29:46] | jamesd2: | i have yet to find a CLI environment that utilizies my 22" lcd 1080p monitor... though i can probably do more on the cli than most can.. you have to know cli to manage 300 servers at work... |
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| [04:30:47] | medwards: | wait... marillat? that name sounds familiar... wasn't that a major host for the dvdcss stuff back in the day? |
| [04:31:19] | iamlindoro: | He is the packager for debian multimedia |
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| [04:46:55] | [R]: | "The footage shot in this program has been edited such that in places it is shown in a different time sequence than actually shot. |
| [04:46:56] | [R]: | " |
| [04:47:05] | [R]: | i.e. this is a big fake scammy scam show |
| [04:47:28] | wagnerrp: | cocaine is a hell of a drug |
| [04:47:40] | [R]: | HAHA |
| [04:48:36] | silverdulcet: | must be a reality show. |
| [04:49:05] | [R]: | kitchen nightmares |
| [04:49:11] | [R]: | wtf... 20 year old chick and a 40 year old loser |
| [04:49:14] | [R]: | stupid mtv |
| [04:49:50] | ** kormoc blinks ** | |
| [04:49:59] | kormoc: | Kitchen Nightmares is a BBC/Fox show |
| [04:50:07] | wagnerrp: | kitchen nightmares is a show? |
| [04:50:10] | kormoc: | Aye |
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| [04:50:33] | [R]: | s/show/sham/ |
| [04:50:51] | kormoc: | gordon ramsay goes to failing restaurants and 'helps' them get back in order |
| [04:50:54] | ** kormoc shrugs ** | |
| [04:51:12] | kormoc: | it's just over dramatized as is every show now a days |
| [04:52:14] | wagnerrp: | thats it, you guys suck.... im shutting this restaurant down... <small>for tonight</small> |
| [04:58:42] | kormoc: | I'm just amazed that people go back to some of them after what he pulls out of there |
| [05:02:24] | jamesd2: | what amazes me is that it appears that not one of them seems to have ever watched the show that they are appearing on before, and pulled out one shread of wisdom (what little they provide) from any of it... they all seem totally ignorant... |
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| [05:33:14] | kormoc: | iamlindoro: So I have TransBlue and LCARS, what one am I missing? |
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| [05:33:49] | wagnerrp: | so this competition, everyone wins? |
| [05:35:32] | Captain_Murdoch: | kormoc, Childish |
| [05:35:40] | kormoc: | snaz, thanks |
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| [06:25:09] | iamlindoro: | kormoc, I posted snapshots of the last submitted versions of each, but thanks to an ill timed change to how themes word (today) they need to be modified before they will run against current trunk |
| [06:25:29] | kormoc: | ann |
| [06:25:34] | iamlindoro: | so once I have made those modifications I will post new tarballs, have just been watching LOST instead, which is less of a chore |
| [06:25:44] | kormoc: | Heh, no worries :) |
| [06:25:53] | kormoc: | with my new job here too, I shouldn't be so pressed for time anymore :) |
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| [06:32:16] | iamlindoro: | kormoc, http://www.fecitfacta.com/competition-corrected/ there are copies of the three themes that should run against today's trunk, and they're what we'll want to post on the voting site. The preview.png file in each is probably a good choice to use as the screenshot, too. |
| [06:32:56] | kormoc: | Rgr! |
| [06:40:49] | Captain_Murdoch: | iamlindoro, are you here for a while longer? |
| [06:41:18] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, a little bit, going over the competition themes and finding that at least one doesn't meet the minimum requirements, trying to figure out what to do about it |
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| [06:42:32] | Captain_Murdoch: | I have a patch I may want to you try if you can. |
| [06:43:04] | iamlindoro: | ok |
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| [06:44:54] | Captain_Murdoch: | I have it resizing the shape but a looking at one other thing with it. |
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| [06:50:22] | kormoc: | you know, the Childish theme's lizard is really awesome |
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| [07:02:42] | wagnerrp: | iamlindoro: that guy just doesnt want to give up, does he |
| [07:03:17] | iamlindoro: | I think it's a test to see just how patient I am willing to be |
| [07:03:20] | wagnerrp: | one would think after half a dozen times, he would get the hint |
| [07:04:35] | iamlindoro: | Maybe he needs the baker's dozen |
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| [07:27:19] | iamlindoro: | Captain_Murdoch, any luck on that patch? |
| [07:28:38] | Captain_Murdoch: | yeah, just tweaking some things now. I have it resizing items, but am trying to make it recenter something if it has to resize by too much. (ie, if the buttonarea was too off-base) |
| [07:29:17] | Captain_Murdoch: | if you want to take a look, I can upload a copy. |
| [07:29:35] | iamlindoro: | sure |
| [07:29:51] | iamlindoro: | I need to be up at 5 AM for a swim tomorrow, so If I'm going to test, it's probably got to be now |
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| [08:03:30] | jlanzac: | hi |
| [08:03:44] | jlanzac: | I would like to know how to set active EIT scan ? |
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| [08:05:37] | jlanzac: | when i'm not recording or livetv the EPG is not updated |
| [08:05:55] | jlanzac: | therefore I have a problem when scheduling automatic recordings based on epg |
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| [08:23:53] | jlanzac: | any help? |
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| [09:40:32] | Tanthrix: | God, newegg's new product page layout is horrendous. |
| [09:43:59] | Tanthrix: | If anyone else finds it to be a POS scroll-fest like just about every other online retailer nowadays, please use their contact page to complain. |
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| [09:51:36] | jlanzac: | I would like to know how to set active EIT scan ? |
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| [10:15:21] | justinh: | active eit scanning is enabled in mythtv-setup when mythbackend is not running |
| [10:15:50] | justinh: | so stop mythbackend running then run mythtv-setup. go into section 2, tuner card setup. active eit scanning can be enabled there |
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| [10:20:56] | jlanzac: | justinh but in this section only says:Card – Recording Options -> Open on demand (not checked) and Use as EIT Scanning (checked) |
| [10:21:01] | jlanzac: | is that what you mean? |
| [10:21:51] | justinh: | says enable active eit scanning here |
| [10:22:11] | justinh: | pretty sure it does anyway |
| [10:22:31] | quicksilver: | does the multirec stuff work by creating 'dummy' card numbers? Because I see some card numbers which don't correspond to cards I thoguht I had. |
| [10:22:32] | jlanzac: | I don't have my computer right in front of me, cause I'm at work |
| [10:22:51] | justinh: | quicksilver: yes |
| [10:23:06] | quicksilver: | justinh: that explains it. Thanks. |
| [10:23:10] | justinh: | well not actually dummy card numbers. encoder numbers |
| [10:23:15] | ** quicksilver nods ** | |
| [10:23:31] | jlanzac: | but the screen i get i think there is not such and option (0.22) |
| [10:23:37] | jlanzac: | mine is similar to http://parker1.co.uk/edgy/capture_card.jpg |
| [10:23:48] | justinh: | oh christ no not the parker website |
| [10:24:19] | justinh: | that fell behind in terms of accuracy many moons ago |
| [10:24:54] | justinh: | anyway that screen hasn't changed much if any |
| [10:25:09] | jlanzac: | this is why I put it as an example |
| [10:25:09] | justinh: | active EIT scanning is enabled within the recording options part IIRC |
| [10:25:37] | justinh: | the help text displayed with the EIT option highlighted should illuminate you |
| [10:25:52] | jlanzac: | in the recording options ... says Use as EIT Scnanning? is that what you mean? |
| [10:25:57] | jlanzac: | sorry ... :( |
| [10:26:12] | justinh: | I don't think it would say "use as EIT scanning" |
| [10:26:25] | justinh: | unless there's a screwed up translation going on |
| [10:26:53] | jlanzac: | I'm saying it by memory... but I havent seen something like active scannig |
| [10:27:05] | justinh: | it should say "Use DVB Card for active EIT scan" |
| [10:27:47] | justinh: | man, I need a better screenshot app than GIMP |
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| [10:29:08] | jlanzac: | that's what it is sai |
| [10:29:22] | jlanzac: | this is activating active EIT scan? |
| [10:29:45] | justinh: | http://imagebin.ca/view/NI5KQTx.html there |
| [10:30:03] | justinh: | no, it enabled flugelhoffing buferring. WTF do you think it does? |
| [10:30:48] | justinh: | I mean would it logically be called 'enable active EIT scan' if it did something else? I know this is open source software but come on.. ! |
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| [10:31:11] | jlanzac: | This is my screen |
| [10:31:18] | jlanzac: | so I have to check this value or not? |
| [10:31:29] | jlanzac: | what is the correct one? I guess is with a tick on it |
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| [10:32:32] | jlanzac: | at least I have it checked on my both tunners... so in case it has to be checked... then my problem is another one, and problably refering to EIT crawls timeout.. |
| [10:33:13] | justinh: | I'd only enable it on one tuner, FWIW |
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| [10:33:38] | jlanzac: | ok.. |
| [10:33:44] | jlanzac: | i will try it tonight. |
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| [10:34:08] | jlanzac: | let's cross finger... I will also run mythbackend with -v eit to see the messages |
| [10:34:12] | jlanzac: | thanks a lot |
| [10:34:28] | jlanzac: | I will go on working after this "break" |
| [10:34:37] | justinh: | word to the wise, if you run mythtv-setup when mythbackend is still running there's a reason it warns you |
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| [10:34:52] | justinh: | a lot of settings are only read when mythbackend starts up |
| [10:35:12] | jlanzac: | ok |
| [10:35:17] | Tanthrix: | I like that mythtv-setup lets you proceed anyway. No nanny state software here! |
| [10:35:32] | Tanthrix: | Plus it makes me feel like a rebel. |
| [10:35:37] | justinh: | yet |
| [10:35:49] | justinh: | try it on mythbuntu :D |
| [10:36:16] | Tanthrix: | I tried installing ubuntu's mythtv packages and it was bad enough. |
| [10:36:27] | justinh: | s/bad/different/ |
| [10:36:42] | Tanthrix: | Fair enough. |
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| [10:36:58] | justinh: | it's too different for me too, so I roll my own :) |
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| [10:37:38] | Tanthrix: | I did undo my manual install of the nvidia driver though and went with Ubunutu's. |
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| [10:37:54] | Tanthrix: | Now everything is stock packages except mplayer and mythtv. Should make future upgrades easier. |
| [10:38:36] | Tanthrix: | So next time I don't get screwed over like Arch's rolling release setup. |
| [10:39:10] | Tanthrix: | justinh: So are you ever going to get cranky enough and move away from Ubuntu? |
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| [10:43:26] | Tanthrix: | I must admit, my Ubuntu setup is obviously more bloated than my previous Arch install, but everything Just Worked in ways I have never experienced with linux before. |
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| [10:43:46] | Tanthrix: | I'd have to say that I'm a fan now. |
| [10:45:08] | justinh: | Tanthrix: it's getting that way. very tempted to give slack a go for the production boxes |
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| [11:30:22] | justinh: | sigh. having to test adapted ethernet over power adapters |
| [11:30:58] | justinh: | somebody has had the bright idea of using fire rated power cable to distribute power to cameras & provide the network connection |
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| [12:04:56] | oobe: | slack is more work to setup heaps less work to maintain |
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| [12:16:30] | justinh: | ubuntu would be less annoying to maintain if it didn't keep fricking nagging about updates |
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| [12:17:46] | xand: | justinh: it's to make it like Windows ;) |
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| [12:20:03] | oobe: | its not the updates that bother me its how much stuff you have to disable in order to make it sane |
| [12:20:40] | oobe: | every single thing is auto configured for newbs so ppl who dont want 1000 daemons running have to disable it themselves |
| [12:21:09] | justinh: | the underlying message is: if it's not for you, don't use it :-) |
| [12:21:09] | oobe: | not to mention the idea that upstart is a good thing to enforce on ppl who already know and use init scripts |
| [12:21:37] | oobe: | heh i agree but ubuntu was for me i loved having an up to date apt repo |
| [12:22:12] | oobe: | but now its screwed so i went back to slack which i hadnt used since 2005 and built all my packages manually |
| [12:22:33] | [Peter]: | I just hate having pulseaudio shoved down my throat |
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| [12:23:58] | oobe: | well thats the sort of thing im talking about |
| [12:24:03] | justinh: | I read you get used to it eventually. your throat learns to relax or something |
| [12:24:14] | oobe: | making somthing that is experimental and not fully functional the default |
| [12:24:55] | justinh: | anyway if you wanna slag off ubuntu go to #ubuntu & do it :) |
| [12:25:54] | oobe: | lol i guess i am slagging them off |
| [12:26:03] | oobe: | im just mad cause i used to love it |
| [12:27:05] | justinh: | just goes to show you can't please all of the people all of the time. maybe you should devote your time to making OOBuntu ;-) |
| [12:27:16] | [Peter]: | noobuntu? :D |
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| [12:30:42] | oobe: | justinh, no and that is absolutly right there are 1000's of ubuntu devs many of them want the newest stuff lots of them havent had much experience |
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| [12:35:45] | oobe: | [Peter], you cant make ubuntu anymore noobish |
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| [12:40:59] | justinh: | oh yes you could. all it needs is a helpful little paperclip dude |
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| [12:43:13] | oobe: | justinh, remember i was worried about there being many defunct processes of mythfrontend |
| [12:44:04] | oobe: | well a work around in the thread said to symlink /sbin/udevinfo -> /sbin/udevadm and it worked |
| [12:44:15] | oobe: | so it is cause mythtv still uses udevinfo |
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| [12:45:58] | oobe: | actually i recall you didnt care so i dont know why i botherd |
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| [13:57:22] | sid3windr: | anyone know of something like the samsung U70 7" USB displaylink thingy, but a bit larger? 10–12" |
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| [13:57:40] | justinh: | is that stuff worky in loonix yet? |
| [13:59:44] | justinh: | ooo apparently so http://libdlo.freedesktop.org/wiki/ |
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| [14:01:44] | sid3windr: | yea |
| [14:01:46] | j-rod: | massive fail. some dude is asking why his samsung IR remote isn't working with an x10 *RF* receiver on the lirc list. |
| [14:01:46] | sid3windr: | it is |
| [14:01:54] | sid3windr: | but 7" is a bit small for what I wanted to use it |
| [14:02:25] | justinh: | heh a nifty 16:9 displaylink screen with touchy surface might be handy |
| [14:02:31] | sid3windr: | yes |
| [14:02:37] | sid3windr: | even that U70 with touchy would be neato |
| [14:02:42] | sid3windr: | as home management remote control ;) |
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| [14:11:48] | iamlindoro: | superdump, Wow, you are wading into it with your release talk ;) |
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| [14:13:40] | superdump: | iamlindoro: it's not that bad if you don't go in with too much of an ego and with some willingness to be flexible |
| [14:14:15] | iamlindoro: | It didn't surprise me after all the venom last time that it's taken this long to release again |
| [14:14:37] | iamlindoro: | but hey, it's still less than the interval between Myth .21 and .22 :) |
| [14:14:47] | iamlindoro: | (but much more than between .22 and .23) |
| [14:15:02] | superdump: | it's not as a result of 'venom' that there's been almost a year gap since the last one i think |
| [14:15:13] | superdump: | rather that no one bothered to push for another release |
| [14:15:27] | superdump: | :) |
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| [14:15:49] | iamlindoro: | sorta seemed like nobody pushed for one because it got awful personal last time |
| [14:16:10] | superdump: | i don't know if you checked the wiki page, but we'd like to get he aac v1 in for 0.6 :) |
| [14:16:29] | superdump: | and maybe we'll push out a 0.5.1 with accumulated fixes that reinhard is working on |
| [14:16:32] | iamlindoro: | I've been following the review, very exciting |
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| [14:17:50] | superdump: | ffmpeg-mt does have funding, but i don't know how long it will take to get it shipshape and merged |
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| [14:18:45] | iamlindoro: | also great news |
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| [15:51:04] | wsuetholz: | Hello, Does anybody know a good source for the extra video in daughter card for the Hauppauge PVR-500 card? |
| [15:51:41] | wagnerrp: | ebay |
| [15:52:35] | wagnerrp: | hmm... used to be ones up there |
| [15:52:42] | wagnerrp: | dont see any currently |
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| [15:52:55] | sphery: | can still get it from Hauppauge |
| [15:53:26] | sphery: | http://registration.hauppauge.com/webstore/ac . . . uct=av_cable |
| [15:53:43] | sphery: | (assuming that's what you mean) |
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| [15:55:55] | wsuetholz: | That's it exactly! Thank you sphery |
| [15:55:56] | wagnerrp: | why would you use that with a 150/250? |
| [15:57:42] | sphery: | I think the 150/250 still have the header, so this just adds a second input (can't be used at the same time, but prevents your having to switch inputs externally--with a switch or manually--if you have multiple sources) |
| [15:58:13] | wagnerrp: | ah... that would explain why i have two sets of video inputs on my 150s |
| [15:58:38] | wagnerrp: | tuner, two svideo, and two composite |
| [15:58:46] | sphery: | Yeah, so you can record from your cable box /and/ your VCR :) |
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| [15:59:32] | sid3windr: | nice that they made it half height now |
| [15:59:42] | wagnerrp: | any idea why the perl bindings have a routine for extracting video information from a file? |
| [16:00:14] | wagnerrp: | i mean thats just a very specific tool, someone must have added it because they wanted to use it for something |
| [16:00:27] | wagnerrp: | or otherwise were already using it and just decided to shift it into the bindings |
| [16:01:22] | sphery: | it used to be used to determine if a file was an NUV or a MPEG--back when we were changing from the "always use .nuv" filenames |
| [16:01:32] | sphery: | no need for it in the Python bindings |
| [16:01:47] | sphery: | (as it's not portable and kills the system when run on all recordings) |
| [16:02:02] | sphery: | think starting up 1235 instances of mplayer... |
| [16:02:43] | wagnerrp: | yeah, i just mentioned something along the same lines to someone in -users |
| [16:03:11] | wagnerrp: | but why would you need to know if it were nuv or mpeg? |
| [16:03:23] | wagnerrp: | something to do with external transcoders? |
| [16:03:38] | wagnerrp: | like was that something nuvexport used? |
| [16:05:00] | sphery: | mainly so that the link created had the right file extension for clueless OS |
| [16:05:06] | sphery: | (read Windows) |
| [16:05:45] | wagnerrp: | ah |
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| [16:10:56] | wagnerrp: | seems putting my email out on the mailing list has come back to haunt me |
| [16:11:10] | wagnerrp: | im finally starting to get spam on my primary email account |
| [16:11:30] | sphery: | welcome to 1995 :) |
| [16:11:44] | wagnerrp: | ive had a good run |
| [16:11:54] | wagnerrp: | been over four years with nothing |
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| [16:13:33] | sphery: | I get hundreds a day to my valid e-mail address. If you include all the bounces from spammers sending e-mails through open relays with a from address using my domain, it's >3000 a day. |
| [16:13:52] | bjd: | nice |
| [16:14:01] | wagnerrp: | yeah, ive never seen anything like that |
| [16:14:02] | ** sphery stops the chain, though--my mail server is a black hole ** | |
| [16:14:25] | sphery: | accepts everything and doesn't send any bounces |
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| [16:14:53] | wagnerrp: | seems the MPEG group has extended royalty free use of h264 until 2016 |
| [16:15:17] | wagnerrp: | although that still means 12 possible years of fees |
| [16:15:50] | sphery: | I currently have 126mails in my "Unidentified" folder (from senders not in my whitelist) and cleared it at about 1:00am |
| [16:15:54] | sphery: | (so 10hrs ago) |
| [16:15:59] | wagnerrp: | maybe h265 will be out by then |
| [16:16:33] | elg: | I got a PCI GeForce 8400 for VDPAU but my initial tests last night seem to indicate it just doesn't have the bandwidth – it can play HD that I couldn't play before, but then it stutters, pauses, and has general mayhem especially when the OSD comes up. The computer is somewhat old (Athlon XP 2200+ IIRC) |
| [16:17:00] | elg: | Might I just be misconfigured or should I stop wasting my time and cut my losses? |
| [16:17:34] | wagnerrp: | i use a GF8400 PCI at 1280x1024 with no problems |
| [16:17:54] | elg: | ok, that's encouraging. |
| [16:18:00] | ** bjd goes looking for a suitable board for new myth setup ** | |
| [16:18:12] | elg: | i'm not a pci expert, but |
| [16:18:39] | elg: | would it perhaps be because of too many pci cards? I've got a nic, sound card, pvr-150, sata card |
| [16:21:06] | wagnerrp: | elg: that could very likely be the case |
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| [16:21:56] | elg: | thanks for the positive data point, at least I know now the potential for success |
| [16:22:08] | elg: | what's your cpu? |
| [16:22:11] | wagnerrp: | the more devices youve got talking, the less overall throughput you get over that bus |
| [16:22:30] | wagnerrp: | barton 2600+ |
| [16:22:43] | wagnerrp: | but mine is a frontend-only |
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| [16:32:57] | DjMadness: | i know this might not be the best channel to ask, but anyone know if a core2duo box cooler is good enough for those overheating P4 prescotts ? (630) |
| [16:33:42] | skd5aner: | lol – these "serge" tickets are hillarious |
| [16:34:01] | iamlindoro: | not to me |
| [16:34:18] | wagnerrp: | DjMadness: your average C2D runs 65W, versus 100+ for prescotts |
| [16:34:23] | skd5aner: | I know I know, but I can't help but laugh at the situation, sorry it's at your expense iamlindoro :D |
| [16:34:48] | wagnerrp: | he hasnt done it again has he? or are you talking about the one from last night |
| [16:35:06] | skd5aner: | When I see he posts another one, I start to hear circus music playing in my head |
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| [16:35:30] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: last night – doing my daily commits reading routine now |
| [16:37:25] | DjMadness: | wagnerrp: ye i know their hotter, but was wondering if the cooler is basicly the same. and could handle the heat. |
| [16:37:46] | wagnerrp: | youre talking about the stock c2d cooler? |
| [16:38:03] | DjMadness: | yep... |
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| [16:38:33] | wagnerrp: | the stock c2d cooler is about 2/3 as tall as the prescott cooler was, and considerably slower |
| [16:38:49] | DjMadness: | ah... so a nogo |
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| [16:38:54] | wagnerrp: | the prescott cooler was insufficient to cool the prescott, which would cause the CPU to downclock itself under load |
| [16:39:11] | wagnerrp: | the stock cooler shipped with the processor wasnt even enough to cool the thing |
| [16:39:37] | DjMadness: | ah i see... thanks, thats all i need :) |
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| [16:56:52] | ** sphery loves how when you give advice on the -users list, that you have to /prove/ that you're right even when the documentation (which no one reads) clearly says you're right ** | |
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| [16:57:31] | skd5aner: | that's because you wrote the docs... ;) |
| [16:57:33] | skd5aner: | lol, j/k |
| [16:58:02] | sphery: | actually, someone much smarter than I wrote the specific docs I'm referring to :) |
| [16:58:19] | sphery: | and he and I are probably the only 2 people to read that part of them |
| [16:58:55] | wagnerrp: | "who is this 'dean' character, and how date he correct me" |
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| [16:59:00] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee | |
| [16:59:09] | wagnerrp: | s/date/dare/ |
| [16:59:16] | sphery: | I also love how, "I've never noticed a problem," is a 100%-unrefutable argument for why I'm wrong |
| [16:59:39] | wagnerrp: | now go fix the scaling issues for screenshots in mythvideo |
| [16:59:45] | sphery: | heh |
| [16:59:54] | sphery: | don't we have 4 tickets for that one? |
| [17:00:03] | wagnerrp: | something like that |
| [17:00:07] | wagnerrp: | maybe more from the past |
| [17:00:44] | sphery: | Assign to: markk / Component: MythTV User Interface Library / Keywords: OSD |
| [17:00:45] | gbee: | "The Mythvideo" |
| [17:01:04] | wagnerrp: | gbee: yeah, that one made me crack up |
| [17:02:43] | gbee: | and it's not even mythvideo, it's the necessity of scaling the OSD to the frame size with xvideo, although I made a suggestion to Mark that hadn't apparently been considered before and so we might have a properly scaled OSD with xvideo for 0.24 |
| [17:03:49] | sphery: | So, I've found what I think is the sole downside to having a dev box separate from your production box. With a production box, testing things that delete files is easy--you're always watching things, so there's always stuff to delete. With a separate dev box, you have to add another recording to delete (and multiple tests can be really annoying) |
| [17:06:39] | wagnerrp: | was the theme competition already extended once? |
| [17:06:58] | sphery: | sure :) |
| [17:07:09] | sphery: | typo in the 1-week, but the date is correct |
| [17:07:29] | sphery: | I'd guess a changed draft or something |
| [17:08:31] | iamlindoro: | the theme competition has not been extended previously |
| [17:08:36] | iamlindoro: | this is the one and only extension |
| [17:08:59] | sphery: | but if we say it had been, we can say the 1 week isn't a typo :) |
| [17:11:43] | gbee: | sphery: that's how I came to record/watch more stuff on my dev box that the production box connected to the TV :) |
| [17:12:35] | gbee: | s/that/than/ |
| [17:13:12] | sphery: | heh, unfortunately, the monitor for my dev box is way over in another room (and on the floor--since I almost never need it), so that would be hard for me |
| [17:14:16] | wagnerrp: | sphery: well on the opposite side of the spectrum, you can be running multiple machines on trunk, but not update them frequently enough |
| [17:14:47] | wagnerrp: | so you can commit a patch to fix something, and then get flustered a couple days later to find it did nothing because youre still running prior to that patch |
| [17:15:32] | devinheitmueller: | wagnerrp: well, duh. You mean my system doesn't automatically start working after you check a patch into source control? |
| [17:16:24] | devinheitmueller: | I downloaded the code from CVS five weeks ago, so we're obviously running the same code! |
| [17:16:31] | wagnerrp: | i made a change to the jobqueue code a couple days ago, and couldnt figure out why the change had done nothing |
| [17:16:45] | wagnerrp: | oh right... i havent updated yet... |
| [17:17:19] | sphery: | heh, if I could recapture all the time I spent debugging a patch that didn't seem to do anything (because it wasn't installed), I could do so much more for Myth |
| [17:17:30] | sphery: | I do that all the time |
| [17:17:36] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, the best is when you have thirteen different trees checked out for different issues, and you realize the tree you are on doesn't have the fixes you expect it to. |
| [17:18:12] | sphery: | my most-frequent problem is forgetting the make install |
| [17:18:54] | devinheitmueller: | Well, with MythTV in particular, I frequently get nailed by having it installed into both /usr and /usr/local because I screwed up the prefix, and then I am confused as I get a mix of two different versions. |
| [17:19:11] | sphery: | that would be confusing |
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| [17:19:22] | sphery: | I copy/paste my commands just so I don't do that |
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| [17:20:00] | devinheitmueller: | I generally try to run the version packaged by the distro until I run into a problem, at which point I then compile the cvs version from source. |
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| [17:27:24] | sphery: | wagnerrp: are you planning to put #7858 in contrib for 0.23? |
| [17:28:34] | wagnerrp: | this 7858? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . ts/mythfs.py |
| [17:28:41] | sphery: | yeah |
| [17:28:57] | wagnerrp: | yeah, just left the ticket open for any bugs that may show up with it |
| [17:29:17] | sphery: | oh, it's in |
| [17:29:44] | ** sphery goes to ask permission for removing the rename support from mythrename.pl... ** | |
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| [17:31:40] | skd5aner: | so if you just remove the "rename" support, does that mean it'll change to "myth.pl" |
| [17:31:42] | skd5aner: | ;) |
| [17:31:52] | wagnerrp: | mythsymlink.pl |
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| [17:38:56] | sphery: | Yeah, I'm thinking mythlink.pl |
| [17:42:29] | ** wagnerrp hates when guide data does not match ttvdb data ** | |
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| [17:43:28] | sphery: | I was disappointed that TMS didn't use the exact same description that Peter read from the "TV Guide" on last week's episode of Family Guy. |
| [17:43:59] | wagnerrp: | well in this case, the guide data doesnt match the subtitle given on cbs.com |
| [17:44:04] | wagnerrp: | (ttvdb does) |
| [17:44:13] | sphery: | something like: "Peter gets more than he bargained for when he competes in a rodeo. Meg dates a convicted felon." |
| [17:44:27] | sphery: | would have been hilarious if they used that |
| [17:44:45] | sphery: | how far off is the subtitle? |
| [17:44:57] | wagnerrp: | 'Jetlag' vs. 'Jet Lag' |
| [17:46:18] | sphery: | seems that jetlag is a less-preferred alternative spelling of jet lag |
| [17:46:29] | wagnerrp: | but the former is the proper |
| [17:46:36] | sphery: | http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jetlag |
| [17:47:05] | sphery: | proper per the actual video (i.e. they show it on screen)? |
| [17:47:19] | wagnerrp: | its the title given on the CBS website |
| [17:47:28] | sphery: | ahhh, that seems official enough |
| [17:47:48] | sphery: | chances are it will get corrected by TMS in the future (but will use the same programid) |
| [17:48:02] | wagnerrp: | anyway... it just causes problems with my export script |
| [17:48:05] | sphery: | so you can use the frontend to edit it :) |
| [17:48:29] | wagnerrp: | it cant find the episode number, so it reverts to generic export |
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| [18:12:01] | skd5aner: | wagnerrp: I saw the same thing a few weeks ago, difference in "space". TMS was wrong, TTVDB was correct |
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| [18:17:20] | sphery: | wonder if TMS would like reports about stuff like that... |
| [18:17:41] | sphery: | should ask xris ^^^ |
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| [18:20:13] | dustybin: | now i understand... |
| [18:20:14] | dustybin: | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8493149.stm |
| [18:25:25] | devinheitmueller: | http://hd.engadget.com/2010/02/02/cetons-cabl . . . network-too/ |
| [18:25:32] | devinheitmueller: | sorry, wrong window. |
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| [18:29:08] | ** sphery wonders if that means he's not allowed to read about the quad cablecard tuner... ** | |
| [18:30:28] | sphery: | So does that actually take 4 cable cards or does the cablecard itself have some mechanism for specifying how many channels the cable co allows users to watch at a time or are cable co's even allowed to specify limits like that? |
| [18:31:11] | wagnerrp: | its a 'ms' card, multi-stream |
| [18:31:19] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: there is an "m-card" which is basically a cablecard which can support multiple streams. However, you are still restricted by the number of tuners your device has. |
| [18:31:51] | sphery: | device being a cable box |
| [18:32:10] | sphery: | or the m-card thing |
| [18:32:32] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: no, in this context when I say "device", I mean the number of actual tuners the receiver has (in this case the Ceton card) |
| [18:32:33] | wagnerrp: | tuner card, you dont need a cable box |
| [18:33:19] | sphery: | ahh... so, in theory, the m-card is the cable co's permission to tune multiple channels at once |
| [18:33:34] | sphery: | interesting--thanks for the info |
| [18:33:45] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: think of it like a PVR-500 – even though you have a single board, you can receive two channels at the same time because it has two onboard tuners. Cablecard devices are the same way – you need a tuner for each frequency you plan to receive, independent of the encryption of the content. |
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| [18:35:04] | gbee: | how many channels tend to be multiplexed on a single frequency in US cable? |
| [18:35:12] | devinheitmueller: | The cablecard itself is responsible just for the decryption functionality – products that use cablecard still have a traditional QAM256 tuner onboard to receive the signal, demodulate it, and pass the encrypted data to the cablecard. |
| [18:35:39] | devinheitmueller: | gbee: assuming you're talking about digital TV, it all depends on the bitrate of the individual streams. |
| [18:35:56] | devinheitmueller: | ... and cable companies have been known to reduce the bitrate in order to pack more channels into a single frequency. |
| [18:36:20] | devinheitmueller: | For example, the ten or fifteen ClearQAM channels are usually packed into only two or three actual frequencies. |
| [18:36:30] | sphery: | and a lot of US users were happy with multirec because it was useful to them with their cable subs |
| [18:37:27] | gbee: | so it's not really any more than what you'd expect on DVB-T |
| [18:38:52] | devinheitmueller: | gbee: well, DVB-T works in basically the same way. However, both DVB-T and over-the-air ATSC have a much lower bitrate than ClearQAM. |
| [18:40:00] | devinheitmueller: | ... and hence you can pack fewer channels into the stream. |
| [18:41:39] | devinheitmueller: | For example, over-the-air ATSC if 19.2Mbps. The channel I've seen with the highest actual bitrate is CBS-HD which is around 14Mbps. Now ClearQAM is 38Mbps, which means you could fit several channels with that bitrate onto a single ClearQAM frequency. However, the cable company also cuts the bitrate of of CBS-HD down to 8Mbps, so you can fit *even* more onto the same frequency. |
| [18:42:02] | devinheitmueller: | Of course, reducing the bitrate impacts quality, so the ability to do it without users complaining is largely based on the content being encoded. |
| [18:42:22] | wagnerrp: | 8mbps? and i thought i was being screwed with my ~12mbps |
| [18:42:23] | gbee: | devinheitmueller: the lower bitrates are why I asked, I imagined they would have squeezed more channels in that they have |
| [18:42:29] | devinheitmueller: | (people are much more likely to notice artifacts during a football game with lots of moving action compared to reruns of "Everybody Loves Raymond") |
| [18:42:36] | gbee: | at least for SD channels |
| [18:42:49] | devinheitmueller: | 12Mbps is pretty high for SD. |
| [18:43:03] | wagnerrp: | no, CBS-HD |
| [18:43:21] | devinheitmueller: | And by the way, CBS-HD looks great at 14Mbps, especially programs with lots of city shots like CSI Miami. |
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| [18:43:48] | devinheitmueller: | Oh, well 8Mbps is a bit extreme for a channel that was originally 14Mbps, but I've seen it that low. |
| [18:44:26] | devinheitmueller: | (and in the interest of full disclosure, I'm not particularly a fan of CSI Miami, but I have noticed how great the intro shots are) |
| [18:45:13] | gbee: | DVB-T muxes in the UK pack in up to 16 channels (although there is a degree of time sharing involved making that figure erroneous) The smallest mux has six full time channels |
| [18:45:38] | gbee: | 8 – 10 isn't uncommon |
| [18:46:05] | gbee: | those would all be SD channels |
| [18:47:15] | sphery: | devinheitmueller: agreed on the CSI: Miami intros--good bright colors compared to most shows, today, which have lots of dark colors (which MPEG hates) |
| [18:47:28] | devinheitmueller: | sphery: yup. |
| [18:47:46] | gbee: | still mpeg2 I assume? |
| [18:47:53] | devinheitmueller: | gbee: yes |
| [18:48:11] | devinheitmueller: | CBS-HD is also a really good channel to use for testing, since the high bitrate exposes things like dumb bugs in applications that do read() calls with a size of 188. |
| [18:48:34] | devinheitmueller: | ... since with a 14Mbps stream, that creates a *ton* of system calls. |
| [18:49:29] | gbee: | sphery: even H.264 hates dark colours, anything filmed in nice bright outdoor locations looks fantastic but indoors, especially in low-light ... |
| [18:50:36] | ** gbee sends devinheitmueller a 22Mbps BBC HD sample ** | |
| [18:51:16] | ** devinheitmueller traceroute's gbee's IP address and crashes his ISP so that the transmission doesn't go through. ** | |
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| [18:57:06] | sphery: | gbee: yeah, and that's especially ironic in that more and more TV and movie content has a dark/dreary character to it |
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| [18:59:57] | brfransen: | Captain_Murdoch: I changed those 2s to 3s in AutoCommercialSkip and that fixed it. It no longer skips the comm right after SKIPCOMMBACK. |
| [19:00:20] | gbee: | arguably more realistic lighting, a lot of older programmes, especially in the sitcom/soap genre featured indoor scenes which were so heavily and artificially lit that it was brighter inside than the sunniest day outdoors |
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| [19:00:42] | Captain_Murdoch: | brfransen, ok, thanks. |
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| [19:01:32] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: If after http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/23458 , you get questions from users of the telnet protocol asking how they capitalize the month numbers, feel free to send them my way... I'll teach them how to use NumLock + Shift + KP_<num> to capitalize them. |
| [19:01:37] | gbee: | in fact, I can still think of some examples from current US shows |
| [19:01:43] | sphery: | (where that's NumLock off) |
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| [19:02:54] | Captain_Murdoch: | brfransen, I changed trunk to 3 seconds. |
| [19:03:08] | sphery: | gbee: agreed... Maybe we need to find some motion-picture experts who also go outside sometimes to come up with a new compression algorithm :) |
| [19:04:42] | sphery: | Captain_Murdoch: I hope you're enjoying the "solve an ephemeral display-related issue that's not worth the code it takes to solve" thread. :) |
| [19:04:55] | sphery: | especially with the responses from people who didn't read your previous response :) |
| [19:05:31] | sphery: | could suggest they go back to MythTV 0.20 since it didn't have the problem |
| [19:05:53] | brfransen: | Captain_Murdoch: Thanks! |
| [19:08:41] | Captain_Murdoch: | you mean the SG one? |
| [19:09:19] | sphery: | yeah |
| [19:09:47] | iamlindoro: | Maybe I should tell people that the Arclight backgrounds are just still frames from US MPEG-2 broadcast |
| [19:10:04] | Captain_Murdoch: | encrypted |
| [19:10:27] | sphery: | iamlindoro: or NASA ground-survey data with a 5m resolution |
| [19:10:33] | kusznir: | Hi all: I'm finally thinking I need to implement some transcoding on my myth system (combined fe/be). I've found some instructions online, and tried to follow them, but unfortunately things arn't working, and I'm not finding sufficient log information to proceed in troubleshooting. I also find that the instructions online arn't sufficient for me to understand what's going on, so I'm left with just blindly following a step-by-step (not my normal m |
| [19:10:33] | kusznir: | ode of operating) |
| [19:10:34] | ** iamlindoro will probably get a lot of comedic mileage out of "can you please send me the right backgrounds" ** | |
| [19:10:50] | iamlindoro: | that was priceless |
| [19:11:05] | sphery: | heh, yeah--and a ticket for it, even |
| [19:11:25] | kusznir: | Basically, when I mark a program for trancoding, it claims its done almost immediately, but no change happens. |
| [19:11:26] | iamlindoro: | "really?! dont you think it looks a little umm.. jarring seeing really blocky images mixed in with high-res fanart etc., i mean i know i can change them but still.. " |
| [19:11:39] | iamlindoro: | Why would you *ever* speak to a total stranger about their work that way, anyway? |
| [19:11:42] | sphery: | kusznir: My recommendation for transcoding is a new 1TB or greater hard drive |
| [19:11:44] | Captain_Murdoch: | tell them they need to zoom out by using Myth's multi-touch capability. take 2 fingers, put them a couple inches away from each other on the screen and pinch. |
| [19:12:15] | sphery: | lol, imagine all the people who would be cleaning their TV's after that one |
| [19:12:58] | iamlindoro: | "Would it be possible for you to email me the proper images please? Thanks. I do understand that this is still WIP for you. " |
| [19:13:05] | sphery: | kusznir: in other words, IMHO, transcoding isn't worth the processor/energy cost--the only time I think it has any merit is when removing commercials from a recording using a lossless MPEG-2 transcode |
| [19:13:07] | iamlindoro: | sigh |
| [19:13:41] | wagnerrp: | i just cant get over the fact that he expects youre holding back |
| [19:13:48] | sphery: | You should put a watermark on those images that says, "Certified Proper Background for Arclight" |
| [19:13:54] | gbee: | and it's only worth transcoding to remove commercials if you intend keeping the recording for a long period |
| [19:14:00] | wagnerrp: | putting out a 'reduced' version in the tarball, while leaving the better version for yourself |
| [19:14:08] | iamlindoro: | ArclightPro |
| [19:14:22] | wagnerrp: | mythtv goes shareware |
| [19:14:24] | sphery: | for those who paid you the $25, huh? |
| [19:14:47] | kusznir: | sphery: Hmm...well, I don't really have the option of adding a hard drive right now....And I'd like to have them on smaller formats so I can more easily move them around. |
| [19:14:59] | iamlindoro: | heh, yeah, too bad I didn't get all that theme income I was counting on |
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| [19:15:23] | gbee: | and lose quality |
| [19:15:47] | sphery: | Oh, I should also admit that transcoding to allow playback on a resource-constrained device (for people who don't mind watching TV on a 2.5" screen) is another valid reason for transcoding (though watching on the 2.5" screen is unforgivable in my world) |
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| [19:17:19] | sphery: | kusznir: I really don't know transcoding--since I only do it to test whether it works/patches--but if you want someone who does know it to help, you should probably explain exactly what "things aren't working." |
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| [19:18:17] | kusznir: | I can't even find enough of a description of how its supposed to work to figure out what's not working...I've followed the setup instructions for trancode profiles, I mark a program for transcoding, and nothing happens... |
| [19:18:58] | sphery: | how do you mark it for transcoding? |
| [19:19:06] | kusznir: | And as to what I'm transcoding, this is for long-term archival of some sd programs...I've already had them on the hard drive for over a year, and intend to have them on for years to come, or even export to a DVD of mpeg4's, etc. |
| [19:19:31] | kusznir: | In the frontend, I found the program in the list, hit menu, and selected "begin trancoding" from the jobs menu. |
| [19:19:49] | wagnerrp: | kusznir: exporting to dvd is not worthwhile |
| [19:19:55] | sphery: | and which transcoding profile do you select? |
| [19:20:16] | sphery: | if it transcodes but incorrectly, you likely need to fix that transcoding profile |
| [19:20:17] | kusznir: | wagnerrp: not video-dvd, but a data-dvd containing playable diviX or similar files... |
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| [19:20:32] | jolaren: | 2 tuners from 1 card, is that maximum that mythtv accepts? |
| [19:20:36] | sphery: | if it does nothing, it's likely that the backend that grabs the job doesn't have "local" access to the recording |
| [19:20:47] | wagnerrp: | DVDs are only slightly cheaper per GB as hard drives |
| [19:20:55] | wagnerrp: | and they incur a MASSIVE time investment |
| [19:21:02] | sphery: | mythtranscode only works with "local" files (where that includes files available through a locally-mounted network filesystem like NFS or CIFS) |
| [19:21:05] | kusznir: | sphery: it appears transcoding never happens. commertial flagging does work, though. |
| [19:21:15] | kusznir: | Its all local...this is a combined fe/be. |
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| [19:21:41] | sphery: | and you're giving sufficient time for it to finish? |
| [19:21:45] | sphery: | can take many many hours |
| [19:21:49] | sphery: | ps -efw | grep mythtrans |
| [19:21:52] | kusznir: | I log into my system, and its idle. |
| [19:22:12] | kusznir: | supposidly its transcoding now, but your ps command revealed only my grep. |
| [19:22:22] | jhulst (jhulst!~jhulst@jhulst.com) has quit (Changing host) | |
| [19:22:22] | jhulst (jhulst!~jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:22:30] | sphery: | so go to mythbackend status and check the status on the job |
| [19:22:39] | qupada (qupada!~qupada@131.203.203.2) has quit (Quit: ...) | |
| [19:22:49] | sphery: | either through MythWeb Backend Status or http://<hostname>:6544/ |
| [19:23:48] | kusznir: | presently it says "queued" even though no job is running...this is a new behavior, though. |
| [19:24:13] | wagnerrp: | kusznir: DVDs are around $0.05/GB in bulk, while the low point for hard drives is closer to $0.065/GB |
| [19:24:27] | sphery: | and DVD's are tiny :) |
| [19:24:36] | mattwynne (mattwynne!~mattwynne@79.173.154.114) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:24:52] | wagnerrp: | but think of the time investment of burning and storing some 250DVDs, versus just dropping one 1TB hard drive into a hotswap SATA caddy |
| [19:25:04] | tank-man: | kusznir, there is a setting for when transcode jobs will run, look at that maybe |
| [19:25:37] | kusznir: | Ok, so I wont' burn to DVD. I'd like to keep my half hour programs around without having them use 1.5GB of space each for a 480i SD program. |
| [19:26:21] | wagnerrp: | fair enough |
| [19:26:24] | sphery: | 1.5GB is only 0.15% of a 1TB hard drive. :) |
| [19:26:38] | kusznir: | sphery tank-man: It now says running. |
| [19:27:01] | jolaren: | I have a question, it's more hardaware related then it's mythtv related but I'll try anyways. I'm thinkin about gettin yet annother pci card to get 2 more tuners. Atm I have a phoenix reader (CI-Module) and do I need 1 more phoenix reader if I get one more card or could 1 reader do two cards? |
| [19:27:14] | wagnerrp: | kusznir: i just realized how much of a waste of time DVD backups were, last time i wanted to recover a large chunk of data from one |
| [19:27:31] | wagnerrp: | several hours later, i was only maybe two dozen disks in |
| [19:28:41] | kusznir: | I intend to keep the programs around on the myth, just without using 50% of my 500GB disk. I would also like to back them up somewhere as well. It just seems really wrong that these old, SD programs are using up more than 2x the space of programs I'm now recording OTA at better resolution/quality. |
| [19:29:27] | kusznir: | and of course, now the transcode appears to be running. |
| [19:29:54] | sphery: | kusznir: in that case, go into Watch Recordings, mark the program to allow re-record, and when it gets the rerun (OTA at better resolution/quality--and lower bitrate), delete the old analog capture |
| [19:30:04] | sphery: | or just delete and allow re-record :) |
| [19:31:00] | kusznir: | sphery: I would have done that, except this was from when I had cable, and I don't anymore. Hence the wife's instance that I 'protect' them, as we can't get them anymore. |
| [19:31:14] | kusznir: | And I do want to keep them around, just at something more reasonable. |
| [19:31:42] | sphery: | ahhh |
| [19:31:58] | kusznir: | So, if I'm looking to go something small but decent quality (for a SD/analog recording), rtjpeg is an approprate codec? Is that end up like DiviX? |
| [19:32:08] | sphery: | rtjpeg would be big |
| [19:32:26] | wagnerrp: | rtjpeg is just a bunch of jpegs |
| [19:32:36] | sphery: | MPEG-4 can be just a bit more than half the size of MPEG-2 at simliar quality (H.264 is basically half of MPEG-2 at same quality) |
| [19:32:37] | wagnerrp: | divx is an implementation of mpeg4asp |
| [19:32:48] | kusznir: | Ok, so I'm looking at mpeg-4...I don't do video stuff enough to remember all the format stuff... :( |
| [19:33:05] | sphery: | where in my above statement MPEG-4 = MPEG-4 ASP and H.264 = MPEG-4 AVC |
| [19:33:12] | wagnerrp: | and h264 is the original name of mpeg4avc |
| [19:33:56] | kusznir: | Ok. So in the transcoder settings, it only says "mpeg-4" and I don't see any of the extensions. Does it do h.264? |
| [19:34:03] | wagnerrp: | no |
| [19:34:03] | sphery: | if you want to do it in Myth with mythtranscode, you'll likely want MPEG-4 (ASP) |
| [19:34:14] | wagnerrp: | the myth transcoder is only rtjpeg or asp |
| [19:34:23] | wagnerrp: | if you want h264, youll have to use an external transcoder |
| [19:34:28] | sphery: | but it will go into a NuppelVideo container (.nuv file) which windows and many media players don't like |
| [19:34:44] | sphery: | you don't want to transcode multiple times--each is a quality loss |
| [19:34:58] | someotherguy (someotherguy!~a@pool-96-242-160-27.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:35:01] | wagnerrp: | to be honest, the internal transcoder only exists for framegrabbers |
| [19:35:03] | sphery: | so you can use MPEG-2 lossless transcode in Myth to remove commercials, then use an external transcoder |
| [19:35:28] | sphery: | or try to find something that supports the MythTV cutlist (I think nuvexport does--other than that, probably not much) and do a single transcode |
| [19:35:35] | wagnerrp: | and when that was being written, it was unreasonable to do h264 in real time |
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| [19:35:48] | sphery: | by the time you get your 200 shows transcoded, you'll realize that a $99 1.5TB HDD is a bargain :) |
| [19:36:29] | ** sphery has used the internal transcoder to do lossless transcoding of MPEG-2 ** | |
| [19:36:30] | xris: | nuvexport does. probably one of the main reasons I wrote it |
| [19:36:39] | sphery: | cool... wasn't sure |
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| [19:37:03] | sphery: | I find HDD's are cheaper than the time it takes to do the proper cut list editing and transcoding |
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| [19:37:11] | xris: | yeah, a lot of my stuff gets cutlists created and then exported off to h.264 mp4 files with no commercials |
| [19:37:21] | sphery: | (plus I don't ever archive anything--just watch and delete) |
| [19:37:25] | thisotherguy (thisotherguy!~a@pool-96-242-160-27.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:37:35] | xris: | I archive a couple of favorite food shows |
| [19:37:40] | sphery: | If something is worth archiving, I buy it on DVD (I don't like Blu-Ray, yet :) |
| [19:37:52] | thisotherguy: | hi all |
| [19:38:06] | tulbreak (tulbreak!~peter@dsl-217-155-193-159.zen.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:38:06] | sphery: | so, thisotherguy says to me, "hi all" |
| [19:38:12] | sphery: | hi, thisotherguy :) |
| [19:38:15] | iamlindoro: | ba dum tishhhh |
| [19:38:36] | wagnerrp: | sphery: you dont have the space for it anyway |
| [19:38:52] | sphery: | wagnerrp: exactly--nor will I ever have the time to watch a show a second time :) |
| [19:39:06] | thisotherguy: | tee hee |
| [19:39:07] | sphery: | 1235 show backlog is a /lot/ of responsibility |
| [19:39:08] | wagnerrp: | you would need another 13TB for that at least |
| [19:39:40] | xris: | sphery: I need less and less space for recording as my cable company starts blocking more and more shows from firewire recording |
| [19:39:46] | thisotherguy: | I just svn up'd and now when I try to make I get the error here: http://pastebin.com/m7f643664 can anyone help? |
| [19:39:58] | thisotherguy: | trunk 23458 |
| [19:40:03] | sphery: | xris: :( but that sounds like the way things are going |
| [19:40:16] | sphery: | I'm just glad they're not encrypting OTA (at least, not yet :) |
| [19:40:20] | wagnerrp: | thisotherguy: did you 'make distclean'? |
| [19:40:29] | kusznir: | Well, we find that we're not willing to pay for cable/sat anymore (not that there's any guarentee we'll be able to use myth with modern digital programming on sat/cable anyway), so we went pure OTA...Which limits show availability signifiantly, and there's very little on...So we re-watch what we recorded back when we had analog cable (included in rent at our last place). |
| [19:40:29] | thisotherguy: | i did make clean but not make distclean |
| [19:40:59] | thisotherguy: | should I try distclean? |
| [19:41:29] | sphery: | thisotherguy: I recommend: rm /usr/{,local/}lib/libmyth* |
| [19:41:37] | kusznir: | I guess that does bring about the question: how do people get more than OTA programming feeds with myth these days...last I looked into it, it seemed like "those who control media" had done a pretty good job to lock people out of programming they're paying for. |
| [19:41:57] | wagnerrp: | kusznir: analog capture |
| [19:41:59] | sphery: | thisotherguy: if that doesn't work, you should do a make distclean and recofnigure |
| [19:42:08] | wagnerrp: | either with an old IVTV card, or a HDPVR |
| [19:42:38] | sphery: | analog capture is the wave of the future |
| [19:42:39] | thisotherguy: | k |
| [19:42:46] | wagnerrp: | oh the irony |
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| [19:44:44] | wagnerrp: | maybe the FCC will mandate something decent as a replacement for cablecard |
| [19:44:54] | wagnerrp: | of course thats probably a good 4–5 years out |
| [19:45:50] | sphery: | and then it will be 8 years later when someone starts making cablecard tuners for PC |
| [19:46:01] | sphery: | s/cablecard/whatever replaces cablecard/ |
| [19:46:24] | sphery: | right about the time the FCC admits to the failure of the whatever-replaces-cablecard program |
| [19:46:48] | sphery: | besides, it probably won't help *nix users |
| [19:47:38] | thisotherguy: | deleting the libs and make distclean and I still get the same error |
| [19:47:41] | wagnerrp: | well of course, they have to bring out something to show people its actually a functional system |
| [19:47:43] | thisotherguy: | er I deleted |
| [19:47:54] | wagnerrp: | so they can complain when the FCC tries to force in something more functional for the users |
| [19:49:34] | qupada (qupada!~qupada@131.203.203.2) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:49:36] | thisotherguy: | could it be that a param is missing on the end of that call? |
| [19:50:31] | wagnerrp: | drop back to 23455 and try again |
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| [19:52:30] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v gbee | |
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| [19:55:39] | thisotherguy: | adding the extra param from the signature seems to make it compile |
| [19:55:50] | wagnerrp: | it looks like libs/libmyttv/videoout_directfb.cpp line 956 should have been changed to the call |
| [19:56:01] | wagnerrp: | erm... adjusted for the new call |
| [19:56:15] | sphery: | thisotherguy: do you even want the directfb stuff? |
| [19:56:33] | sphery: | as it basically doesn't work |
| [19:56:34] | wagnerrp: | all signs point to no |
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| [19:57:00] | thisotherguy: | yeah – really I just want it to compile – I don't think I'd ever touch directfb |
| [19:57:04] | mattwynne (mattwynne!~mattwynne@79.173.154.114) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | |
| [19:57:07] | sphery: | --disable-directfb |
| [19:57:09] | thisotherguy: | here's the new line: |
| [19:57:10] | thisotherguy: | VideoOutput::InputChanged(input_size, aspect, av_codec_id, codec_private, aspect_only); |
| [19:57:14] | wagnerrp: | isnt directfb disabled by default? |
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| [19:58:35] | sphery: | seems, no... perhaps it should be |
| [19:58:57] | gbee: | we haven't removed directfb support yet? :/ |
| [19:59:17] | wagnerrp: | since the only people using it would be pvr-350 users, maybe that was needed for the xbox stuff... |
| [19:59:48] | thisotherguy: | is it worth submitting a patch – or are you guys on top of it? |
| [19:59:51] | sphery: | actually PVR-350 didn't use it |
| [20:00:02] | sphery: | it used X stuff, still (just X framebuffer, though) |
| [20:00:30] | sphery: | thisotherguy: I'm checking to see if others agree with the idea of disabling it by default |
| [20:00:40] | sphery: | gbee should recommend just ripping it out :) |
| [20:00:59] | sphery: | (I've already put my one line in #mythtv, but I agree with him that we should) |
| [20:07:06] | vallor (vallor!scott@pdpc/supporter/monthlygold/vallor) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [20:09:06] | vallor: | hi — how does one get mythtv to move a DiSEqC 1.2 dish rotor? also: if using a rotor, does one just have to configure a DiSEqC switch in front of the rotor and lnbf? |
| [20:09:55] | ** vallor is talking about DVB-S with a satellite dish, lnbf, and dish motor ** | |
| [20:10:48] | sphery: | I know nothing of DVB-S, but have you checked http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DVB-S |
| [20:11:06] | sphery: | I can spell DiSeCQ, but that's really the closest I can get you |
| [20:11:28] | vallor: | okay, will look there — I think I've been there though |
| [20:12:20] | sphery: | seems I can't spell DiSEqC |
| [20:12:35] | sphery: | so, even less help than I though |
| [20:12:35] | gbee: | :D |
| [20:13:31] | vallor: | ya, dang |
| [20:13:51] | vallor: | no rotor info on there, though they do talk about DiSEqC switches & their config |
| [20:14:02] | pyther (pyther!~pyther@unaffiliated/pyther) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | |
| [20:14:14] | vallor: | maybe I should try setting up a switch at the top, and branching the lnbf and rotor from there |
| [20:18:12] | jolaren: | Did I get you guys right when I heard that HD channels produce 3000 up to 12000 kbits bandwith useage? |
| [20:18:26] | jolaren: | So like watching 2x HD tv channels is impossible almost? |
| [20:18:36] | wagnerrp: | HD is usually 6–20mbps |
| [20:18:51] | wagnerrp: | more commonly between 10–16mbps |
| [20:19:34] | wagnerrp: | you can get some pathetically low bitrate recordings, and ive heard of some DVB-T being upwards of 25mbps |
| [20:19:41] | jolaren: | So an upload of 100 mbits/s is okay if you watch 2 hd channels at the same time? |
| [20:20:26] | wagnerrp: | if your country is in the golden age of broadband, and gives you that sort of upload |
| [20:20:26] | wagnerrp: | sure |
| [20:20:43] | jolaren: | Heh, I have that connection at hom even |
| [20:20:51] | jolaren: | home |
| [20:21:35] | ** wagnerrp gets 768k up... ** | |
| [20:22:07] | ** skd5aner gets a measily 386k up :( ** | |
| [20:22:27] | ** jolaren gets around 80mbits up (at home location) :( ** | |
| [20:22:45] | ** skd5aner slaps jolaren for flaunting ** | |
| [20:23:09] | jolaren: | need to get a new router thought.. the one provided by my isp is bullocs |
| [20:23:20] | wagnerrp: | see! we dont need to add on-the-fly transcoding into the backend |
| [20:23:25] | skd5aner: | ha |
| [20:23:26] | wagnerrp: | we just need to all move to sweden |
| [20:24:38] | jolaren: | yer your welcome to stay in my app a day or two |
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| [20:25:54] | jolaren: | can't decide what 2 do.. perhaps i'll buy a pci-x to firewire card |
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| [20:27:40] | jolaren: | at my work btw we have 1gb / s |
| [20:28:32] | wagnerrp: | my whole school with ~30k active students doesnt even have a quarter that |
| [20:29:07] | abqjp: | jolaren: your computer has PCI-X? That s pretty unusual except in "enterprise" computers. Most "consumer" PCs have PCIe. |
| [20:29:16] | jolaren: | abqjp; it's a server |
| [20:29:20] | jolaren: | abqjp; and yes, it does |
| [20:29:31] | wagnerrp: | why do you need firewire anyway? |
| [20:29:41] | jolaren: | more tuners |
| [20:29:48] | jolaren: | more convienient then a pci extender |
| [20:29:55] | wagnerrp: | and far cheaper |
| [20:30:03] | wagnerrp: | although ive never actually seen a firewire tuner |
| [20:30:10] | wagnerrp: | capture devices, sure... but never a tuner |
| [20:30:21] | thisotherguy: | I converted an old vcr tape to file by going vcr -> hd-pvr -> myth – can anyone recommend a way to convert the file to something suitable for youtube or facebook? |
| [20:30:25] | jolaren: | hmm really |
| [20:30:29] | jolaren: | i guess i haven't done my homework enoguh |
| [20:30:31] | jolaren: | enough |
| [20:30:33] | jolaren: | i will look into it |
| [20:30:42] | jolaren: | the firedtv, isn't that a tuner? |
| [20:31:22] | wagnerrp: | sure looks like it |
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| [20:32:03] | jolaren: | i'ma think this through tho |
| [20:32:07] | jolaren: | it's a 1u rack |
| [20:32:34] | wagnerrp: | not much you can do with 1U |
| [20:33:14] | jolaren: | the hauppage wintv nova 500-t |
| [20:33:17] | jolaren: | fits great |
| [20:33:20] | jolaren: | but I only have 1 pci slot |
| [20:33:22] | jolaren: | and 2 usbs |
| [20:33:29] | wagnerrp: | right, but you get a single card in that space |
| [20:33:34] | jolaren: | ye |
| [20:33:49] | jolaren: | it has 2 tuners tho |
| [20:34:23] | jolaren: | i could run the rack without it's top thought |
| [20:34:28] | jolaren: | but ^^ |
| [20:37:15] | ** gbee gets 512k ** | |
| [20:37:17] | stoth (stoth!~stoth@ool-18bfe0d5.dyn.optonline.net) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| [20:37:25] | gbee: | oops |
| [20:38:08] | jamesd2: | i hope that the music player in mythtv caches the mp3 data.. its not going to be fun to watch as it scans my 9000 mp3's on a remote box. |
| [20:38:43] | npm: | is it possible to use the analog headphone output on "SB [HDA ATI SB], device 0: VT1708S Analog [VT1708S Analog]" as a separate headphone monitor channel when "SB [HDA ATI SB], device 1: VT1708S Digital [VT1708S Digital]" is the main output (spdif). |
| [20:39:11] | gbee: | jamesd2: of course it does |
| [20:39:18] | npm: | alternately, is there a sensible way to get spdif out of an hdmi port (then i'd use that as main sound out, even though not uising hdmi) |
| [20:39:40] | gbee: | it writes the metadata to the database |
| [20:39:42] | jamesd2: | gbee, cool i hoped that was the case |
| [20:40:16] | gbee: | and just be glad that this is the new improved scanner, the old one was in the order of 100x slower |
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| [20:41:50] | gbee: | which is not to say that it couldn't be faster still, but considering it has to open/read/close each file etc it's never going to be lightening fast |
| [20:42:16] | jamesd2: | it would be nice if it was a bit more verbose, like printing a mp3 title while it works... |
| [20:42:40] | gbee: | it would just be a blur |
| [20:43:14] | Goga777 (Goga777!~Goga777@shpd-95-53-211-137.vologda.ru) has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | |
| [20:43:56] | Tanthrix: | There is always mythvideo as an option. Depending on your setup, it may be able to load 9000 files instantly, albeit without ID3 tags and such. |
| [20:44:54] | Tanthrix: | My old myth system (Arch linux from 3 years ago with MythTV 0.21) could scan 3000 files in about 1/8th of a second with the metadata stuff turned off. |
| [20:45:20] | jamesd2: | gbee, but it would be something... seeing the little blue box sit there isn't informative... i know i'm a rare case that has 9k mp3s on an nfs fileshare |
| [20:45:37] | Tanthrix: | My reinstall with Ubuntu and 0.22 took about 6 seconds due to some funny business going on with either the newer version of samba or myth, but switching to gigabit ethernet dropped that down to about 1.5 seconds |
| [20:45:39] | gbee: | and that's the difference, you can always opt to disable tag reading, but since the scan is only done once and embedded metadata is normally better than anything we can parse from the filename there isn't much point |
| [20:45:42] | wagnerrp: | jamesd2: it only has to happen once |
| [20:45:59] | jamesd2: | :-) |
| [20:46:03] | gbee: | jamesd2: you should see a busy dialog at least |
| [20:46:10] | wagnerrp: | just let it sit there for an hour or so, and get it over with |
| [20:46:33] | wagnerrp: | or run the frontend on the machine actually holding the data to scan faster |
| [20:46:39] | jamesd2: | gbee, i do... but it doesn't give me an idea if this is going to take 1 minute or 5 hours. |
| [20:47:50] | Tanthrix: | Enlightenment is not caring about metadata ;) |
| [20:48:05] | gbee: | Tanthrix: I'm suprised that scanning even worked with samba, taglib doesn't like it (but it's more sambas fault) |
| [20:48:31] | Tanthrix: | gbee: I was talking about mythvideo as a simple file browser, never used mythmusic. |
| [20:48:38] | jamesd2: | wagnerrp, the frontend hasn't been ported to opensolaris that i know of. |
| [20:49:01] | wagnerrp: | as long as youre not trying something like video playback, you can probably get it running without too much difficulty |
| [20:49:13] | wagnerrp: | although some of the optical access routines may give you trouble |
| [20:50:21] | Tanthrix: | gbee: I never did figure out if it was Myth or the samba/CIFS client that was to blame. Some interesting reading in this thread, if you're bored: http://lists.samba.org/archive/linux-cifs-cli . . . /005504.html |
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| [20:54:24] | Tanthrix: | gbee: But now with gigabit ethernet, my reason for having all my media on my windows machine rather than my backend has disappeared. Next hard drive I buy will be going into the BE, so that should drop my delay down to 0-ish, hopefully. |
| [20:55:23] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Regardless, I'm interested in the academic sense about whether it was a CIFS change or a myth change that caused this slowdown to occur. My gut feeling is that it is the CIFS client, but that's just a hunch. |
| [20:55:25] | wagnerrp: | well with your media on a backend, your reason to use browse mode will probably be going away as well |
| [20:55:25] | gbee: | or you can disable file browse mode, just how frequently does your media change? |
| [20:55:38] | Tanthrix: | On a daily basis. |
| [20:56:13] | gbee: | from reading that thread I'd have to say it's a cifs issue, it might have been triggered by a myth change but NFS doesn't exhibit the same problems |
| [20:56:46] | gbee: | I'll avoid the obvious question because I suspect I'd then have to kick you |
| [20:56:56] | wagnerrp: | a simple cron job can add or remove content, or hopefully MFSW will remove that need in the future |
| [20:57:23] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Feel free! It's happened once or twice that I've ignored a stupid possibility. |
| [20:58:11] | Tanthrix: | wagnerrp: I often add new content and want to access it immediately in myth to watch / listen to it, so the cron job wouldn't work. |
| [20:59:02] | Tanthrix: | wagnerrp: Philosophically though, I just have zero interest or need in meta data and big databases of my media. I want quick, simple access, and myth provides quite nicely apart from this recent issue. |
| [21:00:00] | wagnerrp: | anyway, some time before 0.24, myth is expected to get a file system watcher in the backend |
| [21:00:22] | wagnerrp: | which would keep track of all files in the backend, and mythvideo would subsequently just pull a new list from there on start, add new content, remove old |
| [21:00:57] | Tanthrix: | So basically what it does now in file browse mode, except with metadata? |
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| [21:01:45] | gbee: | better |
| [21:01:54] | wagnerrp: | no, its performed on the backend in real time, and the frontend just grabs a list out of memory |
| [21:02:06] | wagnerrp: | so there is no recursive list as there is in browse mode |
| [21:02:36] | Tanthrix: | That's clever..though will this be implemented for file browse mode, or just regular metadata mode? |
| [21:02:42] | vallor: | okay, think i've got the diseqc tree figured out — add a rotor, which gives a sub-device, where you can add an lnb |
| [21:02:53] | Tanthrix: | I can tell that most people are a fan of the metadata, so the file browser function sort of takes a back seat. |
| [21:03:00] | wagnerrp: | browse mode would probably be removed |
| [21:03:13] | Tanthrix: | That's what I was afraid you'd say. |
| [21:03:20] | wagnerrp: | why? there would be no need for it |
| [21:03:22] | vallor: | now if i could only figure out the "positions" subitem under rotor configuration, I'll be in good shape :) |
| [21:03:53] | wagnerrp: | browse mode simply exists to get a 'current listing', rather than requiring a scan |
| [21:04:04] | wagnerrp: | in the new model, you would always have a current listing |
| [21:04:12] | wagnerrp: | and would never need to manually scan |
| [21:04:17] | wagnerrp: | so there would be no purpose |
| [21:04:40] | Tanthrix: | Well, if it's as fast as file browse mode and I can get a simple list of files, I'd be happy. |
| [21:04:52] | gbee: | and it trades a one off scan per time period for a scan every time you enter mythvideo, in some ways browse mode is a solution without a problem |
| [21:05:13] | gbee: | Tanthrix: faster by miles |
| [21:05:40] | gbee: | as fast as using mythvideo in non-browse mode |
| [21:05:48] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Then I'll happily switch. But the proof, as they say, is in the pudding. |
| [21:06:00] | ** gbee blinks ** | |
| [21:06:07] | wagnerrp: | gbee: i didnt think it was going to do scans, i thought it would just listen for file additions/deletions |
| [21:06:36] | gbee: | wagnerrp: I'm talking about the status quo, not what will happen when MFSW is implemented |
| [21:06:51] | wagnerrp: | oh |
| [21:08:01] | Tanthrix: | Oh, I was mistaken as well. |
| [21:08:12] | gbee: | i.e. if you re-enter mythvideo twice in an hour (arbitrary) then you might as well be in non-browse mode where only one scan occurs, rather that file browse mode where it has to re-inspect the filesystem each time |
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| [21:09:47] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Right now, everytime I enter mythvideo within 1.5–2 seconds I have a fully updated list of all my files. The scan, however, takes much longer. |
| [21:10:24] | jolaren: | Btw, would it be hard to create your own listings from i.e annother site which displays information about what's currently on the TV? |
| [21:10:39] | jolaren: | The one provided on mythtv.com for Sweden is so extremly ugly |
| [21:11:05] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Well, I actually haven't tried it with my gigabit ehternet setup. But originally, starting mythvideo took about 6 seconds to load everything, but the file scan somewhere around 20 |
| [21:11:10] | DjMadness: | jolaren: check out the xmltv manual... (be prepared it will take you days) |
| [21:11:21] | jolaren: | DjMadness; Oh, suck ass. |
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| [21:11:31] | DjMadness: | jolaren: unless there is multiple sources |
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| [21:11:43] | gbee: | Tanthrix: it shouldn't take longer, it's doing exactly the same thing, only caching it in the database (which is negligible time-wise) |
| [21:11:46] | DjMadness: | in dk we have like 4–7 different places we can grab from |
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| [21:12:28] | gbee: | jolaren: just use the official Swedish grabber? |
| [21:12:37] | jolaren: | gbee; THat's what I said, it looks like CRAP |
| [21:12:43] | Tanthrix: | gbee: It may be faster now, I suppose I could give it a try when I'm home – but it won't update each time I enter, will it? |
| [21:12:48] | AlTheKiller: | Can anyone recommend a usb tuner card with a driver in the kernel? |
| [21:12:52] | gbee: | err, mythtv.com has NO grabbers |
| [21:12:53] | DjMadness: | jolaren: how can it look bad ? |
| [21:13:11] | DjMadness: | jolaren: bad chars for your sweedish letters ? |
| [21:13:18] | gbee: | the official xmltv grabber is distributed through xmltv.org |
| [21:13:19] | jolaren: | DjMadness; Hard to explain ;p but nvm I will look into the other option given |
| [21:13:25] | gbee: | and the xmltv packages |
| [21:14:03] | Tanthrix: | gbee: If I can get instant-ish loading of updated files (either by exiting mythvideo and re-entering or by manually starting a scan) then I'd be happy. |
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| [21:15:03] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Though, it raises the question of why I would make this change, since it would just be doing exactly what I already have, except intrinsically slower (even if immeasurably so) due to the database work |
| [21:15:34] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Then again, I would be happy to some extent, since I live in fear that file browse mode will disappear. I can tell that most of the devs have some sort of strange animosity about it. |
| [21:15:58] | gbee: | Tanthrix: if one 6 second delay is more annoying that several 2 second delays over the course of an evening of viewing then stick with what you've got |
| [21:17:03] | jolaren: | AlTheKiller; |
| [21:17:09] | gbee: | there will be zero delays for non-browse mode once MFSW watcher is implemented |
| [21:17:14] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Well, it could be less with the gigabit now. Like I said, I'll give it a go later just for fun. |
| [21:17:29] | jolaren: | AlTheKiller; I have a dvb-t card that was not in the kernel but took me 5 min to configure it after reading the installation quotes from mythtv.org |
| [21:17:41] | Tanthrix: | gbee: That's spiffy if it all works out, since I've had *instant* file browsing for years now, these delays are a new development. Still though, I think CIFS is to blame for that. |
| [21:17:59] | gbee: | it is |
| [21:18:03] | AlTheKiller: | jolaren: Sorry, I should've specified. Need ATSC. |
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| [21:19:33] | AlTheKiller: | Avermedia claims to support linux, needs proprietary firmware but only seems one of their cards is supported and does ATSC. |
| [21:19:56] | AlTheKiller: | The site is absolute trash... |
| [21:20:16] | Tanthrix: | AlTheKiller: The Avermedia A180 supports ATSC and QAM in linux without issue. |
| [21:20:16] | gbee: | AlTheKiller: linuxtv.org wiki |
| [21:20:21] | wagnerrp: | Tanthrix: are you running 0.22 or trunk? |
| [21:20:44] | Tanthrix: | wagnerrp: 0.22-fixes, though I may be moving to trunk if necessary to implement the broken mythvideo remembering its last position patch. |
| [21:20:53] | wagnerrp: | ah, nevermind then |
| [21:21:05] | wagnerrp: | if you were talking about a metadata scan taking 20+ seconds |
| [21:21:10] | wagnerrp: | that would be due to hashing |
| [21:21:56] | gbee: | but it would only account for the first scan |
| [21:22:11] | wagnerrp: | except that he constantly has changing media |
| [21:22:46] | gbee: | depends whether we're talking about dozens of files changing each day, or more likely 2–3 |
| [21:23:04] | AlTheKiller: | Tanthrix: Needs to be USB. |
| [21:23:10] | AlTheKiller: | gbee: thanks I'll take a look |
| [21:23:26] | wagnerrp: | because with about a dozen rips i just added, a scan took 15 seconds, i went back in and tried again, 1.5 seconds |
| [21:23:59] | gbee: | if he's torrenting that much then it's only a matter of time before his system is confiscated in a Police raid anyway |
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| [21:24:50] | wagnerrp: | a scan ive implemented in the python bindings takes about 4.5 seconds for the same procedure |
| [21:25:06] | Tanthrix: | Aye, I usually only add a file or two, but they're often quite large...is myth seriously hashing each file now? |
| [21:25:20] | gbee: | wagnerrp: vs 15, or 1.5? |
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| [21:25:45] | Tanthrix: | gbee: Alot of stuff I get are video downloads for online classes. They get posted frequently, which is why my share changes frequently. |
| [21:25:55] | wagnerrp: | gbee: with the dozen or so new files, it was 15–20 seconds |
| [21:25:59] | wagnerrp: | with no new files, it was 1.5 |
| [21:26:19] | gbee: | wagnerrp: I mean the 4.5 value |
| [21:26:21] | Tanthrix: | gbee: I also rip all the dvds I buy to that media share, so it changes often. |
| [21:26:39] | wagnerrp: | 4.5 was with the same process performed in the python bindings (with no new content) |
| [21:27:02] | gbee: | right, so 3x slower than myth? |
| [21:27:08] | wagnerrp: | apparently |
| [21:27:30] | wagnerrp: | although that should just be the same walk through the SG tree |
| [21:27:37] | wagnerrp: | ill have to see whats causing it to take so much longer |
| [21:27:50] | gbee: | not surprised that it's slower, but 3x is more than I'd expect |
| [21:30:05] | wagnerrp: | probably something to do with how i manage matching against existing content |
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| [21:32:17] | gbee: | python's not my thing otherwise I'd offer some advice |
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| [21:51:12] | jolaren: | I'm so stoked on how to handle my tuner situation wagnerrp, do you have any suggestions? |
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| [22:15:51] | jolaren: | Any usb dvb cards whom has two tuners? |
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| [22:21:41] | Some_Person: | Can anyone recommend me a good USB TV tuner that would work with MythTV? I want something that does analog cable tv along with 8vsb and qam |
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| [22:22:49] | jolaren: | Some_Person; Did you look at linuxtv.org's compatibility list? |
| [22:22:58] | jolaren: | There's dousin of cards who'm works listed there |
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| [22:26:42] | Some_Person: | thanks |
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| [22:30:23] | devinheitmueller: | Some_Person: if your goal is to use it with MythTV, then you probably want one with an encoder. That reduces your options considerably. |
| [22:30:33] | devinheitmueller: | ... like the HVR-1950. |
| [22:31:19] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: i dont think 'stoked' means what you think it means |
| [22:31:58] | Some_Person: | devinheitmueller: What's the advantage of having one with an encoder? |
| [22:32:13] | devinheitmueller: | (I'm referring to the subset of this list which supports NTSC/ATSC/ClearQAM but also have an encoder: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_USB_Devices) |
| [22:32:24] | wagnerrp: | Some_Person: its a lot less painful recording off an analog encoder than a framegrabber |
| [22:32:28] | devinheitmueller: | The encoder converts it to MPEG in hardware, so that you don't have to do it in software. |
| [22:32:43] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; it has several meanings, depending on how it's used.. it means what I meant in that occasion ;P I browsed it in a dictionary just now ^^ |
| [22:32:44] | devinheitmueller: | better CPU utilization. |
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| [22:33:15] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: 'stoked' generally means 'enthusiastic'.... youre excited about your tuner situation |
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| [22:33:24] | devinheitmueller: | The ones without an encoder are not bad for watching livetv, but if you are going to be using it in a HTPC, do yourself a favor and get a unit that has an encoder. |
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| [22:33:27] | wagnerrp: | either that or youre blowing air on your problem |
| [22:33:44] | gbee: | or fueling a boiler |
| [22:33:57] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; sure I guess that term would've been more appropiate |
| [22:34:13] | wagnerrp: | no, none of those terms really make any sense |
| [22:34:25] | jolaren: | heh.. |
| [22:34:25] | Some_Person: | HTPC? |
| [22:34:33] | wagnerrp: | home theater pc |
| [22:34:36] | wagnerrp: | what mythtv does |
| [22:34:40] | devinheitmueller: | Home theatre PC – in other words, if you're planning on building a mythtv box. |
| [22:34:48] | wagnerrp: | if youre using it for direct playback, a framegrabber is fine |
| [22:35:08] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; I'm excited about my tuner situation.. i think that does make sense ;o |
| [22:35:10] | devinheitmueller: | Generally speaking, the USB devices are not very well suited for home theatre PCs. They are intended for more lightweight applications. |
| [22:35:16] | wagnerrp: | if youre doing it for storage (like is necessary for time shifting and recording), you want an encoder |
| [22:35:46] | Some_Person: | No, I'm not really planning on a full time MythTV box (at least not at this time), but I will use it for live tv and maybe some recording |
| [22:35:56] | wagnerrp: | well you asked for suggestions, i would take that to mean youre 'confused on how to handle your tuner situation' |
| [22:36:14] | wagnerrp: | Some_Person: mythtv does not do livetv |
| [22:36:19] | wagnerrp: | it only records |
| [22:36:24] | devinheitmueller: | Also, bear in mind that for "Live TV" under MythTV, you are still converting it to MPEG2 and storing it on disk. |
| [22:36:25] | jolaren: | I was thinkin about buildin a mythtv box for my country house.. but I don't know what to get.. a comp or a dreambox.. :- ) a comp feels like a bit of waste since I don't have an internet connection but still more price-worthy.. what do you guys think? |
| [22:36:40] | wagnerrp: | the 'livetv' mode in mythtv is just playing back a show that youre currently recording |
| [22:36:50] | Some_Person: | wagnerrp: oh, i didn't know that |
| [22:37:11] | wagnerrp: | which is why framegrabbers are not recommended for mythtv |
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| [22:37:19] | devinheitmueller: | Yeah, MythTV is not the same as other livetv viewing apps like tvtime, which just take the video off of the card and render it onto the screen. |
| [22:37:36] | jolaren: | Is it only me who thinks that the "Mythbuntu" logo during boot is extremly ugly? |
| [22:37:38] | jolaren: | It repulses me |
| [22:37:49] | devinheitmueller: | framegrabbers do have some very useful applications, but MythTV is not one of them. |
| [22:38:15] | iamlindoro: | jolaren: You should really think about using more tactful language unless you can (and do) do better |
| [22:38:17] | wagnerrp: | right, if youre streaming straight to an output device, theyre great |
| [22:38:23] | Some_Person: | So, if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, if I want to record, I should get one with an encoder, right? |
| [22:38:30] | devinheitmueller: | Some_Person: yes. |
| [22:38:33] | wagnerrp: | but if youre storing for later use, youre better off with a hardware encoder |
| [22:38:36] | iamlindoro: | since your language would be very offensive to me if it had been my artwork, and as far as I know, you've done exactly nothing for Myth |
| [22:39:35] | devinheitmueller: | The USB devices that have an encoder tend to be more expensive than the PCI equivalents, so you should really only go with USB if absolutely necessary. Also, the PCI/PCIe cards tend to be more durable. |
| [22:39:37] | jolaren: | iamlindoro; I did not know that my language was offensive – somehow. I guess It's due to the fact that I'm not speaking my native language. But It's duely noted |
| [22:40:30] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: its a sore subject, hes been getting nothing but complaints about everything fantastic he does for mythtv |
| [22:41:04] | iamlindoro: | Not my artwork, but it would offend me if it was-- something "repulsing" you is very strong language indeed |
| [22:41:27] | jolaren: | I did not mean it that way. I do love the way mythtv works and everything around it. The gui part – acccording to me.. lacks what xbmc have.. the looks |
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| [22:41:38] | iamlindoro: | It's one thing to complain and deliver on a better alternative-- it's another to trash someone else's work and be incapable of doing any better |
| [22:42:01] | jolaren: | iamlindoro; if it really intrests you I can design a logo someday and send it over to you |
| [22:42:15] | devinheitmueller: | jolaren: you should feel free to contribute better artwork if you are unsatisfied with the way it looks. |
| [22:42:17] | wagnerrp: | that would be the mythbuntu guys |
| [22:42:20] | iamlindoro: | we're not responsible for mythbuntu, send it to them |
| [22:42:44] | jolaren: | iamlindoro; then what are you refering to? what did I trash that you've accomplished? |
| [22:42:52] | jolaren: | Feels like I've been taken off-guard. I don't know what your on about |
| [22:43:04] | sphery: | "Not my artwork, but it would offend me if it was" |
| [22:43:08] | devinheitmueller: | The reality is that most of us are not artists. However, neither are the people who complain, so it's not like they can do any better. |
| [22:43:14] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: youre not saying anything against him, just that hes been getting a lot of flac in that regard recently |
| [22:43:33] | ** sphery wonders if the Ubuntu logo is heavily pixelated ** | |
| [22:43:41] | dustybin: | jolaren: linux people have never been ahead with fashion and design, its all about the code :D |
| [22:43:42] | jolaren: | and I do think that I'm able to make a nice'r logo |
| [22:43:44] | wagnerrp: | release a theme, people complain about an abstract background being pixelated, and wondering if it was intentional |
| [22:43:49] | jolaren: | dustybin; sooo true |
| [22:43:56] | jolaren: | dustybin; but the XBMC skin is truly amazing |
| [22:44:04] | jolaren: | Haha |
| [22:44:11] | sphery: | and who needs functionality when you've got skinz |
| [22:44:20] | wagnerrp: | program something in some manner because of the current limitations elsewhere in the code, and get ranted on for it |
| [22:44:27] | sphery: | we should really drop mythfrontend and just use xbmc |
| [22:44:35] | jolaren: | yeah! :( |
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| [22:44:46] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: anyway, you mean the logo shown as the machine is booting? before X starts? |
| [22:44:51] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; yer |
| [22:44:54] | jolaren: | looks like crap |
| [22:45:00] | jolaren: | kinda makes me not want to turn on the pc |
| [22:45:02] | jolaren: | I know I can change it |
| [22:45:04] | jolaren: | it's not that |
| [22:45:24] | jolaren: | doesn't it bother you wagnerrp |
| [22:45:31] | jolaren: | or have you grown accostomed to it? |
| [22:45:39] | wagnerrp: | i dont use ubuntu, nor do i boot my machines often |
| [22:45:57] | sphery: | the only logos on my PC when booting are ATI, NVIDIA, Award, AMI, ... |
| [22:46:01] | wagnerrp: | anyway, check out the ubuntu forums and howtos for uvesafb and fbsplash |
| [22:46:08] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; i'm aware |
| [22:46:12] | wagnerrp: | its some file you should be able to easily tweak |
| [22:46:13] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; just statin |
| [22:46:13] | frogonwheels: | jolaren: I don't mind it. I don't boot often enough for it to concern me. |
| [22:46:27] | jolaren: | frogonwheels; do a reboot and really think about that picture |
| [22:46:28] | wagnerrp: | ubuntu probably even provides a GUI for editing it |
| [22:46:32] | jolaren: | or when you reboot.. take a time to look |
| [22:46:39] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; really easy to change it.. as i said it's not htat |
| [22:46:43] | frogonwheels: | jolaren: seriously, I don't mind it. |
| [22:46:48] | gbee: | http://www.mythbuntu.org/files/images/usplash-8.04.png |
| [22:47:05] | wagnerrp: | if its easy to change, do so and stop being turned off by it |
| [22:47:10] | jolaren: | gbee; doesn't look exactly like me tho |
| [22:47:19] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; i'm just sayin.. it's standard 'n all |
| [22:47:21] | wagnerrp: | thats iamlindoro's complaint, if you dont like something, change it |
| [22:47:27] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; sure.. |
| [22:47:34] | gbee: | jolaren: that's what the current mythbuntu uses afaik |
| [22:47:41] | frogonwheels: | jolaren: I prefer that to the linux mce option of not actually bothering to have their own logo ;) |
| [22:47:42] | jolaren: | gbee; might be, looks a bit dif on my tv |
| [22:47:50] | jolaren: | frogonwheels; ;) |
| [22:48:14] | sphery: | Ubuntu is not MS Windows--you can actually customize the parts you don't like |
| [22:48:24] | jolaren: | btw, why is it that mythfrontend can't deliver premade clients of their windows version? what's against it – legal vise that is? |
| [22:48:28] | frogonwheels: | exactly. it's just a uboot logo. |
| [22:48:29] | jolaren: | sphery; yer, i know |
| [22:48:33] | jolaren: | sure it is |
| [22:48:37] | frogonwheels: | err usplash |
| [22:48:39] | jolaren: | but still.. i can't believe i'm the only one bothered |
| [22:48:44] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: mythtv does not distribute any binaries for any platform |
| [22:48:54] | Some_Person: | So what program would you recommend for watching live TV? |
| [22:48:56] | wagnerrp: | windows is not an exception to any standard procedure |
| [22:48:57] | kormoc: | jolaren: codecs like h264 and mpeg are patent restricted and thus we're unable to distribute binaries |
| [22:49:02] | gbee: | sphery: some of them anyway, at some point though it's easier just to switch to a distro that does it right out of the box ;) |
| [22:49:09] | jolaren: | kormoc; thank you for your answer.. that makes sense |
| [22:49:41] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: mythtv has never distributed binaries for any platform for the reasons kormoc explained |
| [22:49:53] | jolaren: | yer that makes sense |
| [22:49:57] | jolaren: | i was just curious as to why |
| [22:50:03] | frogonwheels: | Some_Person: I use MythTv for watching live TV, though about 80% of the time I watch recorded stuff ('cause it's soo easy to do) |
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| [22:50:33] | gbee: | packagers take our code and turn it into binaries, but accept any legal liability as a result |
| [22:50:34] | wagnerrp: | Some_Person: mythtv has a livetv mode, just understand that it is merely playing back a file on the hard drive |
| [22:50:35] | sphery: | Some_Person: xawtv, tvtime, (the one from kde for live tv, whose name I forgot), ... |
| [22:50:41] | wagnerrp: | so there will be some lag |
| [22:50:50] | sphery: | and you'll need disk space for it |
| [22:50:55] | wagnerrp: | and there will be significantly increased CPU load if you are using a framegrabber |
| [22:51:09] | sphery: | and it will keep the files until tomorrow (or until your drive fills up, whichever happens first) |
| [22:51:10] | gbee: | sphery: kaffeine |
| [22:51:14] | sphery: | thx |
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| [22:51:23] | gbee: | speaking of which, time to refresh my coffee |
| [22:51:28] | Some_Person: | I intend to get a card with an encoder (thanks for telling me that by the way), so I'm not concerned about that |
| [22:51:33] | frogonwheels: | Some_Person: .. but on the plus side you can pause, rewind your live tv. |
| [22:51:43] | jolaren: | btw I will extend my server's hdd's .. how much space do you have on your backends? I was thinkin about startin with a 600 gig sata drive.. I only have a 40gb and a 500 gb external atm |
| [22:52:07] | jolaren: | the external works fine for SD channels, thought I don't have any HD channels atm so I can't test |
| [22:52:12] | wagnerrp: | ive got a mid-range setup of ~6TB |
| [22:52:17] | devinheitmueller: | jolaren: I picked up a 1TB drive for $69. If your time is valuable, you might as well pick up a descent size hard drive. |
| [22:52:21] | jolaren: | that's crazy wagnerrp |
| [22:52:33] | jolaren: | devinheitmueller; 1tb sata? |
| [22:52:34] | sphery: | Some_Person: and, following on to frogonwheels's comment, you can learn to use TV properly--by recording things you might possibly want to watch and never again watching a commercial nor being restricted to watching whatever garbage is currently airing |
| [22:52:36] | kormoc: | jolaren: crazy small? |
| [22:52:37] | devinheitmueller: | jolaren: yes. |
| [22:52:43] | wagnerrp: | no, thats midrange |
| [22:52:45] | jolaren: | kormoc; Heh ;-) |
| [22:52:58] | wagnerrp: | 4–6TB is fairly common among mythtv users |
| [22:53:04] | jolaren: | You fill a hdd with live-recording soo fast |
| [22:53:05] | sphery: | so if you use MythTV for LiveTV, you might just learn that LiveTV is waste-your-LifeTV |
| [22:53:07] | kormoc: | I have 1tb personally, but I only keep a few hundred recordings |
| [22:53:15] | Some_Person: | sphery: good point |
| [22:53:15] | jolaren: | Like if you watch an entire day you fill it up atleast 40 gig |
| [22:53:28] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; that's quite expensive, i mean.. |
| [22:53:35] | kormoc: | jolaren: which expires in 24 hours so the max it fills up is 80 gigs which is nothing? |
| [22:53:43] | wagnerrp: | an entire day of ATSC on one channel will be ~150GB |
| [22:53:46] | Some_Person: | The problem is disk space though |
| [22:53:52] | jolaren: | kormoc; depends on how many is watchin also, rite? |
| [22:54:02] | sphery: | Some_Person: and with recordings, you can play back at faster than real time--and watching at 1.25x you won't even notice the difference (it pitch-corrects voices) |
| [22:54:13] | kormoc: | jolaren: sure, * by the max number of tuners... |
| [22:54:15] | Some_Person: | How much could fit into about 50GB? |
| [22:54:20] | jolaren: | kormoc; I mean if 3 ppl is watchin different channels then that's 150x3 with equals 450 gig |
| [22:54:32] | kormoc: | yup |
| [22:54:32] | jolaren: | which |
| [22:54:41] | devinheitmueller: | Some_Person: it varies depending on the channel, but I typically assume about 6GB an hour for ATSC. |
| [22:54:43] | Some_Person: | sphery: Cool, my DVD recorder has the same feature |
| [22:54:44] | wagnerrp: | Some_Person: 50GB is about 8 hours |
| [22:54:46] | kormoc: | which is why folks have 20+ tb at times |
| [22:54:48] | jolaren: | so i should probarly get more than 1tb drive |
| [22:54:59] | frogonwheels: | Some_Person: you can get myth to transcode to reduce space, and there's auto-expire, |
| [22:55:05] | sphery: | Some_Person: so if you assume a 1-hr show has a total of 42-min of content after commercials, playing it at 1.25x and skipping commercials, you can watch the hour of TV in 33 1/2 min. At 1.5x, it's 28min, and at 1.75x, it's 24min. |
| [22:55:40] | gbee: | if the intention was to keep a whole days worth of livetv and who wants to do that? |
| [22:55:47] | sphery: | Some_Person: though at 1.5x you really have to start concentrating on the show to catch it all and at 1.75x, you have to be completely focused |
| [22:56:12] | Some_Person: | sphery: I've watched programs at 1.25 on my DVD recorder numerous times. It's not that bad |
| [22:56:15] | jolaren: | gbee; nono.. not my intention.. just sayin.. my old backend kinda collapsed over it |
| [22:56:56] | jolaren: | btw, anyone with experience of external hdd > live tv while watchin HD material? |
| [22:57:14] | sphery: | Some_Person: agreed--only things that will really tip you off are a) hearing a song you know well playing, b) seeing a full-body shot of someone walking (which almost never happens), and c) seeing a physics-related event (i.e. a ball being thrown--it just doesn't move right) |
| [22:57:16] | gbee: | autoexpire does it's job very well, when you are short on space it just deletes the old/watched/low priority recordings to make space |
| [22:57:27] | gbee: | 1TB is more than enough to start with |
| [22:57:28] | wagnerrp: | jolaren: so long as youre not using USB1.1, external hard drives should work just fine |
| [22:57:42] | Some_Person: | sphery: Yeah, I've noticed all that before |
| [22:57:44] | mzb: | jolaren: just to add to the survey, I have 7 hdd in 2x raid5 for a total of 3.75TB. The livetv function is used daily. |
| [22:57:53] | gbee: | it will take you months probably to fill it even if you keep all your recordings |
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| [22:58:09] | mzb: | don't bother with anything less than 1TB/drive these days |
| [22:58:15] | jolaren: | yer.. |
| [22:58:20] | wagnerrp: | yeah, ive got 3x300GB that i use for recordings, and ive never filled it |
| [22:58:25] | jolaren: | but I'm thinkin that an external drive might b better cuz I can take it with me |
| [22:58:26] | jolaren: | so to spea |
| [22:58:26] | jolaren: | k |
| [22:58:30] | sphery: | or go with the $99 1.5TB on newegg |
| [22:58:36] | jolaren: | and their less expensive |
| [22:58:41] | jolaren: | sphery; they don't ship international |
| [22:58:50] | sphery: | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148412 is $99.99 for 1.5TB with promo EMCYNYN48 |
| [22:58:59] | sphery: | true, but for any US folks looking to buy |
| [22:59:04] | mzb: | jokajak: so you don't want a 24/7 backend? |
| [22:59:21] | gbee: | I have just 2TB and only because I started to keep a lot of recorded films around to watch on a rainy day, I'm in no danger of running out of space any time soon |
| [22:59:44] | jolaren: | sphery; Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 64MB 1TB for 70 euro's (cheapest there is here in sweden= |
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| [22:59:57] | sphery: | the caviar green is good, too |
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| [23:00:15] | jolaren: | Sweden and hardware just doesn't come along |
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| [23:00:24] | jolaren: | Everythin so expensive here when it comes down to electronics |
| [23:00:34] | gbee: | that's my dev backend, my production frontend has just 560GB |
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| [23:00:52] | jolaren: | gbee; the size of the frontend is pretty irrelevant really |
| [23:00:58] | Some_Person: | Does it make any difference what brand of a TV tuner I should get? And are there any specifications I should consider other than signal type (NTSC/ATSC/QAM) and whether or not it has an encoder? |
| [23:00:58] | mzb: | when you (and your family/co-habitants) get used to a system it does end up getting fairly busy ;) eg: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . 5_stats.html |
| [23:01:12] | gbee: | jolaren: sorry typo, production backend |
| [23:01:26] | jolaren: | I think the way mythtv is built up is really cool.. I mean I can send signals from mythbackend to my regular PC and watch it flawlessly |
| [23:01:34] | jolaren: | but watchin from the acctual server is impossible |
| [23:01:56] | wagnerrp: | only because your server has no proper video card |
| [23:02:12] | gbee: | it's a combined fe/be, but with one dedicated 500GB and a 60GB partition on the system drive |
| [23:02:13] | wagnerrp: | i doubt a RageXL would work too well |
| [23:02:27] | mzb: | I have 245GB in (uncompressed) music videos alone! ;) |
| [23:02:30] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; yer i understand your drift, i still think it's pretty cool.. |
| [23:02:52] | wagnerrp: | give your server a halfway decent video card, and it would work just fine as a frontend |
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| [23:02:53] | jolaren: | mzb; I have almost 2tb of music on external drives ^^ |
| [23:03:04] | mzb: | mp3's or videos? |
| [23:03:09] | jolaren: | wagnerrp; no point in runnin a 1u serv as frontend |
| [23:03:17] | gbee: | mzb: entirely uncompressed? That must be about 5 minutes worth then ;) |
| [23:03:48] | mzb: | gbee: fair enough ... I've not compressed them any further ... mpeg2 off the air waves ;P |
| [23:04:01] | gbee: | personally I listen to music, I don't watch it, but each to their own |
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| [23:04:11] | mzb: | nice to be able to do both |
| [23:04:32] | Some_Person: | Also, how well does QAM work in MythTV? Can it figure out clear QAM channels with a really sketchy system (i.e. no guide available, weird channel numbers like 80–1, and literally hundreds of just plain black channels)? |
| [23:04:37] | mzb: | also means that when we're listening/watching music the "tv" isn't on at the same time ;) |
| [23:05:23] | jolaren: | mzb; that's quite sweet.. i haven't thouht bout that.. is it possible to record like all music videos of an certain artist? |
| [23:05:27] | jolaren: | I'm guessin not cuz it's not listed |
| [23:05:31] | jolaren: | but anyways |
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| [23:06:24] | jolaren: | I'll start of with a 1tb hdd.. the wb one |
| [23:06:32] | jolaren: | and prob i'll get more if needed be |
| [23:07:08] | gbee: | jolaren: you can create recording rules based on search terms, searching against the description, title, credits etc |
| [23:07:15] | mzb: | jolaren: this is basically the technique I use: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Cutting_Music_Videos |
| [23:07:16] | jolaren: | And one thing that's botherin me.. the quality of picture is slightly improven when the card is directly into the TV |
| [23:07:20] | jolaren: | mzb; thanks |
| [23:07:52] | jolaren: | my CI card that is |
| [23:09:57] | mzb: | actually I need to correct a statement on that page |
| [23:11:29] | jolaren: | yeah? |
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| [23:13:53] | mzb: | done |
| [23:14:14] | mzb: | err ... |
| [23:14:42] | mzb: | no, that's right |
| [23:14:48] | jolaren: | :P |
| [23:15:04] | mzb: | once a job has started you can set the cutlist for the next job |
| [23:15:16] | jolaren: | Anyone of you noticed any slight back on the picture while watchin from myth? |
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| [23:15:54] | mzb: | apart from sheer fluke, the main way I get music videos is with the help of guides like this: http://www.abc.net.au/rage/playlist/ |
| [23:16:05] | mzb: | I _don't_ download any media |
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| [23:19:48] | jolaren: | I'm really wastin time here tryin to get myself motivated to clean up the mess i've created around me |
| [23:19:56] | jolaren: | gettin guests over tomorrow mornin |
| [23:19:57] | jolaren: | such a pain |
| [23:22:21] | ** mzb has made so much mess that guests can't fit ... problem solved ;) ** | |
| [23:22:54] | mzb: | gives me more time to do *important things* |
| [23:23:03] | jolaren: | yer |
| [23:23:20] | jolaren: | i was rly lookin forward to spend my entire day n night tomrrow (except for work) to mix n trix with ma srv |
| [23:23:23] | jolaren: | to get it all upp n runnin |
| [23:23:29] | jolaren: | and movin it to it's dedicated location |
| [23:23:32] | mzb: | I'll clean up one day I guess |
| [23:23:59] | bobgill (bobgill!~smileyfac@CPE0016b6062e69-CM0011e6c40b1f.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | |
| [23:24:00] | jolaren: | way of life |
| [23:24:01] | jolaren: | someday |
| [23:24:32] | mzb: | need to redo the badly done drainage under the house, so it's all got to be cleaned up/moved soon |
| [23:24:41] | mzb: | (while the weather's good) |
| [23:24:47] | jolaren: | heh |
| [23:24:55] | mzb: | can't build my computer room until that's done :| |
| [23:24:55] | jolaren: | it's rly cold in sweden |
| [23:24:58] | jolaren: | coldest winter for 50 years |
| [23:25:06] | mzb: | brr, I can only imagine |
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| [23:25:53] | jolaren: | mzb; it was -22 farenheit a few weeks ago |
| [23:25:54] | jolaren: | feel it |
| [23:26:03] | jolaren: | and that's in the capital... on the shore it's even colder |
| [23:26:47] | mzb: | mid 20s(C) here now, have had a few mid-high 30s(C) in the past month or so |
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| [23:27:26] | mzb: | time for my morning garden inspection (auto irrigation has completed;) |
| [23:27:38] | jolaren: | hehe |
| [23:27:44] | jolaren: | garden |
| [23:27:50] | jolaren: | long time no see |
| [23:27:52] | jolaren: | only snoow |
| [23:28:20] | jolaren: | any of you usin mythweb? |
| [23:28:24] | jolaren: | is it worth havin |
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| [23:28:40] | mzb: | yes |
| [23:28:42] | mzb: | brb5 |
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| [23:29:31] | jolaren: | what ya usin it for? schedulin recordins? |
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| [23:43:55] | mzb: | I swear that pumpkin has doubled in size overnight ;) |
| [23:44:08] | mzb: | jolaren, among other things, yes |
| [23:44:31] | jolaren: | you have pumpkins in your yard? |
| [23:45:41] | mzb: | yep, 3–4 plants, currently got 3x 3–4 inch pumpkins on them |
| [23:46:33] | mzb: | also built a greenhouse which currently has 3x tomato plants (bit of trouble getting them to pollinate well) and heaps of "salad" stuff (mescalan? mix) |
| [23:46:34] | jolaren: | sick |
| [23:46:52] | jolaren: | only time i can grow things is durin the summer in my country house |
| [23:47:05] | jolaren: | some berries and dill |
| [23:47:27] | mzb: | all hooked up to automatic watering and combined with: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/RainTipper/ |
| [23:47:37] | mzb: | got a few herbs as well |
| [23:47:46] | mzb: | http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/Greenhouse/ |
| [23:47:54] | jolaren: | Heh, sweet |
| [23:47:56] | mzb: | greenhouse cost me ~au$50 |
| [23:48:04] | jolaren: | the herbs man, the herbs ;') |
| [23:48:19] | mzb: | and raintipper cost $3 (building a heavy duty funnel turned out to be too hard;) |
| [23:48:59] | mzb: | oregano, sweet basil, sage, lemon balm, rosemary (2–3 varieties), garlic ... |
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| [23:50:12] | mzb: | currently working on a slow-cooker bbq made out of 44 gallon drum (computer controlled!) |
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| [23:50:27] | mzb: | all related to mythtv from a notification point of view ;) |
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