Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, January 25th, 2010, 00:00 UTC

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sid3windr:

Installation guides

[00:02:16]

sid3windr:

Usually found upon install.

[00:02:17]

sid3windr:

:D

[00:02:53]

jmkasunich:

Dagmar: thanks for that info – 99% of products DO follow the "higher number = newer and/or better" rule, so IMO the newbies can be forgiven – the info you added will really help them out

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Dagmar:

I didn't write the page, but I'm responsible for that pink box and a couple others I've added

[00:05:28]

jmkasunich:

thats what I was referring to (I read the history)

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jmkasunich:

follow the link to the 150 and there is a yellow box saying that one is no longer being made either :-(

[00:07:37]

Dagmar:

No, it's saying it's EOL, which is trye

[00:07:39]

Dagmar:

er true

[00:08:20]

jmkasunich:

?

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jmkasunich:

EOL = no longer being made

[00:09:17]

Dagmar:

It's not.

[00:09:28]

Dagmar:

This doesn't mean you can't get them on eBay

[00:09:42]

Dagmar:

...but now that there are _no_ analog OTA broadcasts in the US...

[00:10:05]

Dagmar:

I mean, I've not looked but I'm pretty sure 95% of the analog transmitters are currently off now.

[00:10:19]

jmkasunich:

understood

[00:10:26]

awalls:

Local low power is still allowed to be analog

[00:10:44]

awalls:

I get a fuzzy one coming from somewhere in VA

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Dagmar:

The majority of the cable TV providers are drooling all over themselves at the opportunity to try and upsell existing customers on more expensive packages when they get them digital converter boxes

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jmkasunich:

dagmar: where is {{capture card info }} defined on the wiki? (the blue box with various specs at the top of the -150 and -250 pages)

[00:13:12]

jmkasunich:

duh, never mind

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Dagmar:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Template:Capture_card_info

[00:14:16]

awalls:

IIRC the FCC made it difficult for any vendor to sell analog only devices (like a PVR-150) in the US – a big orange "DANGER" label

[00:14:25]

awalls:

to scare off consumers

[00:14:48]

awalls:

which probably hastened their demise

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jmkasunich:

the end of analog TV is probably what hastened their demise

[00:16:52]

awalls:

No it was the reason for their demise

[00:17:03]

awalls:

The FCC helped it along..

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jmkasunich:

does anybody know if the WinTV-PVR-150 is the same as the PVR-150?

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awalls:

This page indicates so: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/support/support_pvr150.html

[00:22:04]

jmkasunich:

it does?

[00:22:32]

awalls:

Click on 3rd party and read about Linux driver support.

[00:22:56]

awalls:

ivtv supports the PVR-150

[00:23:13]

jmkasunich:

I can't find any info on the hauppauge site for any board that doesn't start with WinTV... I'm trying to determine if the myth wiki page called "PVR-150" is indeed about the board that Haup calls "WinTV-PVR-150"

[00:23:25]

awalls:

but the support page there has WinTV-PVR-150 all over it

[00:23:53]

jmkasunich:

it smells like haup added "WinTV" to the front of all their products after the wiki page was written

[00:24:15]

jmkasunich:

that is the kind of thing that confuses newbies, so I'm going to try to fix it – but I want to make sure I have my facts right

[00:24:52]

jmkasunich:

(also, the Vendors Website link on the wiki is broken, gonna fix that too)

[00:29:18]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: you get a chance to read RDV's comments about the grabber APIs?

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Dagmar:

jmkasunich: They are the same card

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Dagmar:

"WinTV" is just something fancy they stick on retail boxes

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ip_goat_rodeo:

Can someone recommend ANY supported ISDB-T tuner?

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ip_goat_rodeo:

(full-seg not one-seg)

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wagnerrp:

are there any?

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wagnerrp:

to be honest, we dont get many japanese users around here

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wagnerrp:

(none that ive ever seen)

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ip_goat_rodeo:

ISDB is used in most of south america too btw

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wagnerrp:

dont get many of them either

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ip_goat_rodeo:

full-seg tuners have only started to appear on the retail market in the last 6 months anyhow.

[00:53:48]

wagnerrp:

a couple argentinans and thats about it

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ip_goat_rodeo:

before that they were only oem

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wagnerrp:

well mythtv does not support tuner cards (with a few exceptions)

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wagnerrp:

just the DVB subsystem

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wagnerrp:

which means anything supported on http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ISDB-T_Devices

[00:55:22]

wagnerrp:

although that list is rather scarce, and may not be up to date

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jmkasunich:

Dagmar: thanks

[00:57:28]

ip_goat_rodeo:

everything there seems like brazilian

[00:57:41]

ip_goat_rodeo:

ergo not available in japan

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wagnerrp:

so import TO asia over the internet? got to be some sort of joke there...

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ip_goat_rodeo:

and I don't think brazilian ISDB-T uses BCRAS

[01:00:32]

ip_goat_rodeo:

which is required for japanese ISDB-T to work

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Dagmar:

@#$@$ parser functions

[01:03:06]

wagnerrp:

ip_goat_rodeo: looks like the JH/TBS USB tuners are japanese

[01:03:41]

wagnerrp:

a sticker on the tuner claims 'full-seg' support

[01:03:48]

wagnerrp:

and isnt TBS one of your broadcasters?

[01:09:08]

ip_goat_rodeo:

Not likely to be related. The broadcasters don't touch hardware.

[01:09:45]

wagnerrp:

i found that odd too, but didnt think it could be a coincidence

[01:10:29]

ip_goat_rodeo:

there's no place for a BCAS card on either of those two cards so they're not japanese

[01:10:54]

wagnerrp:

oh, thats some form of conditional access module?

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ip_goat_rodeo:

yes

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ip_goat_rodeo:

the japanese tuners have either a full-credit-card size version or a sim-size one for usb full-seg.

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Dagmar:

Oh I see. we don't *have* the parser functions extention installed on the wiki

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ip_goat_rodeo:

I saw a Cell Regza the other day. Beautiful design, but no one's going to buy it in this economy.

[01:17:27]

ip_goat_rodeo:

8 tuners, 26hrs x8 continuous recording.

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wagnerrp:

i dont understand why it would have to be expensive

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ip_goat_rodeo:

Well, its a 55" unit and the development costs were huge.

[01:19:25]

wagnerrp:

i mean its a stripped down, high yield cell, tuners at maybe $20/pop, and roughly 2TB of space

[01:19:58]

wagnerrp:

make it maybe $400 above the default cost of the TV

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ip_goat_rodeo:

Its the development costs being amortized over a small production run I suspect.

[01:20:29]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the software development would be the only significant cost

[01:24:55]

iamlindoro:

superm1: It would be a lot more helpful if you mentioned what these failing TV shows were...

[01:25:20]

superm1:

iamlindoro, its in the linked bug, i wasn't gonna duplicate all the data on both trackers

[01:27:30]

iamlindoro:

I really prefer not to have to sift through the difficult-to-read launchpad bugs

[01:27:38]

iamlindoro:

but I found it for this one

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superm1:

well this is one of the reasons it would be entirely useful if the launchpad plugin could be installed on trac, it automatically forwards data both ways when a bug is linked (as I understand it)

[01:31:11]

iamlindoro:

I personally wouldn't want to see every time someone decided to change status or respond to a bug on launchpad propogated to trac

[01:31:34]

iamlindoro:

as you guys allow way way more discussion and "me too" talk on your tickets than we do

[01:31:56]

superm1:

its a little easier to get answers out of people though when they are subscribed to a ticket

[01:32:10]

superm1:

particularly when we are forwarding them up on their behalf

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metalac:

anyone knows why my slideshow would work fine for first 10 or so photos and then stop changing photos?

[01:55:32]

metalac:

after that i have to push a button on keyboard to change

[01:55:35]

metalac:

kind of weird

[01:55:43]

metalac:

first time i used this feature in 0.22

[01:55:47]

metalac:

didn't have issues in 0.21

[01:56:08]

metalac:

no informative info in log files either

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metalac:

everything seems normal

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v GreyFoxx

[02:12:36]

GreyFoxx:

Anyone know if there are any currently available combo blu-ray+hddvd drives out there? I know the LG GGC-H20L is no longer being produced and am hoping there is something new that does both

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wagnerrp:

i dont see anything on newegg

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dj_segfault:

Hey. I just upgraded Ubuntu from 9.04 to 9.10. Having mysql issues. Does mythtv need mysql 5.0 or 5.1, or doesn't it care which?

[02:25:09]

wagnerrp:

anything newer than 4.something, i believe

[02:27:10]

dj_segfault:

Ah, I see part of the problem is that all of the mythtv packages specify mysql-client-5.1 as a dependency but I have mysql-5.0 installed. That's gonna be messy to fix.

[02:29:16]

wagnerrp:

such a thing should never happen

[02:29:31]

wagnerrp:

unless youre doing something ill advised like installing packages from a different release

[02:30:00]

wagnerrp:

and even then the package manager should block you from doing something so foolish

[02:30:01]

Tanthrix:

Anyone know why myth would hover at 14 percent CPU usage when sitting at the "Watch Recordings / Watch Videos" screen when running with -l blah.log but 0 percent usage when not logging?

[02:30:25]

Tanthrix:

(With nothing showing up in the logs at the time in question, mind you)

[02:30:31]

wagnerrp:

Tanthrix: see several tickets in trac, and the last several days of discussion in #mythtv

[02:30:45]

wagnerrp:

seems something to do with the UI redraw timer

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Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Interesting – rarely do I come across a real bug, I usually assume it's something I'm doing.

[02:31:44]

wagnerrp:

the timer runs at 70hz, while the screen refresh runs at 60hz, leaving exactly 14% of the time for myth to be stalled waiting on a refresh

[02:32:24]

Tanthrix:

Crazy. Is that an easy fix for the coders to change the timer to 60hz, or is it some big nightmare?

[02:33:11]

wagnerrp:

dont know enough about the internals to say either way

[02:33:24]

wagnerrp:

although if it were the former, there would be no discussion on the issue

[02:33:33]

wagnerrp:

it would just be fixed, and been done with

[02:33:51]

Viper550:

s there anyone here from Saskatchewan using Sasktel's TV service?

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Tanthrix:

Yah, you're right.

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[02:37:54]

Tanthrix:

Now, for my only other bug with 0.22...mythvideo not remembering its last place in the tree.

[02:38:31]

Tanthrix:

Does anyone know how I would go about getting this patch? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7425 – Is that something I need to just upgrade to trunk to get, is it already in fixes, or could I patch manually?

[02:39:19]

wagnerrp:

the fact that it is still open means it has not been committed

[02:39:33]

wagnerrp:

and since its against 'head', it likely will not work against -fixes

[02:40:20]

Tanthrix:

Ok, thanks.

[02:41:12]

Tanthrix:

I'm just happy to hear it's being fixed, that bug has been killing me lately.

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Dagmar:

Uhg

[02:42:58]

Dagmar:

I'm going to stop editing on the wiki before I begin twitching

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[03:22:14]

chilcjess:

hey guys, googled a bit for this one but haven't found anything. Does anyone know where I can change the font, colour and size of .srt captions in the internal player?

[03:22:41]

GreyFoxx:

I think that's just the Closed Caption settings.... not sure if the OSD can overrride it or not

[03:23:51]

Dagmar:

It's in the frontend setup menus.

[03:23:57]

Dagmar:

No, I can not cite speciifcally where.

[03:24:07]

Dagmar:

It's a bloody page full of nothing but font filenames. You'll know it when you get there.

[03:24:20]

chilcjess:

yeah I couldn't find anything. but i was very tired at the time so I may have just over looked it

[03:24:37]

chilcjess:

I'll check it out again when my gf is finished whatching anime

[03:24:41]

Dagmar:

GreyFoxx: I nuked the "Possible countermeasures" section of the HD-PVR page of the wiki

[03:25:00]

Dagmar:

It was beginning to read like a how-to for what you need to buy to bypass copyright mechanisms

[03:25:02]

Dagmar:

That is not good.

[03:25:05]

iamlindoro:

and I just un-nuked it

[03:25:14]

Dagmar:

So why is the HD fury mentioned there?

[03:25:21]

Dagmar:

What does it have to do with the HD-PVR?

[03:25:55]

iamlindoro:

because it is topical and of interest to the UK freesat box owners who do indeed have limitations placed on their component outputs

[03:26:15]

Dagmar:

So why is there not an HD Fury page?

[03:26:41]

iamlindoro:

Because it's only usable in a myth context with the HD-PVR

[03:26:47]

iamlindoro:

you don't have to agree, but you do have to live with it

[03:26:58]

Dagmar:

That first sentence is misleading at best, since apparnetly their boxes were _supposed_ to ship with the ability to disable analog outputs

[03:27:26]

Dagmar:

...and it's no longer useful to them if the analog outputs are turned off

[03:27:41]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: did you have a standalone tool for generating the mythvideo hashes or is my memory off ? Something that can be used in ascript ?

[03:27:53]

iamlindoro:

Uhh, if the analog outputs are turned off, that's *precisely* why the HDFury is of use to them

[03:28:08]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: its code available in the frontend and the backend

[03:28:25]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx, If you hunt down the initial hash commit, I link the wiki page with multiple script approaches to generating them

[03:28:36]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: Cool.

[03:28:41]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: if you want to use it in a script, i have a call to have the backend execute it on your behalf in the python bindings

[03:28:52]

wagnerrp:

(which i should be committing tonight)

[03:28:54]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: hrm, that would work for me

[03:31:18]

wagnerrp:

or if you perfer perl, it could probably be added there in a couple lines

[03:32:03]

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[03:32:10]

Dagmar:

You know they MAKE HDMI capture cards now

[03:32:28]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: sure... useless for most people though

[03:32:56]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: Perl is easier for me since I work with it all the time. Python I can deal with but is more "effort" heh

[03:34:06]

wagnerrp:

anyway... its just QUERY_FILE_HASH[]:[]relative/path/to/file.mpg[]:[]storagegroup

[03:35:31]

GreyFoxx:

does that take absolute paths too? (for non SG content) ? Though I suppose I can just look at up myself heh

[03:35:54]

wagnerrp:

nope, non-sg stuff you would have to do manually

[03:36:21]

Dagmar:

So tell me how a countermeasure happens *before* the cause?

[03:36:49]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: I might mod it to take an absolute path if no SG is specified

[03:37:06]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, let it go

[03:37:13]

Dagmar:

Let what go?

[03:37:28]

Dagmar:

It's wooly freakin' thinking, and it won't _help_ the situation

[03:37:47]

iamlindoro:

STB manufacturers are actively disabling component output to prevent capture on boxes that would otherwise be usable with the HD-PVR

[03:37:48]

Dagmar:

It's definitely shit that they're trying to further entrench their monopolies

[03:37:48]

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[03:37:57]

Dagmar:

Not in the US they'r enot.

[03:38:00]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o iamlindoro

[03:38:19]

iamlindoro:

You have been warned enough times about your language

[03:38:20]

Dagmar:

...an apparently the equipment affected by the article linked, like all the others, was supposed to ship with that capability

[03:38:30]

Dagmar:

Dude, that's reaching

[03:38:40]

GreyFoxx:

I think a few comcast markets had component turned off

[03:38:45]

GreyFoxx:

for like a week

[03:38:51]

GreyFoxx:

but people bitching got it reenabled

[03:38:54]

Dagmar:

Yep. The FCC slapped 'em for that

[03:38:59]

GreyFoxx:

They are testing the waters

[03:39:10]

** cesman knows component out works w/ his STB, the HDPVR and that other OS... **

[03:39:20]

** cesman however cannot get it to work w/ Linux **

[03:39:24]

cesman:

argh!!!

[03:39:41]

Dagmar:

I ain't saying the issue shoudn't be on the wiki. I say it should be on it's own freaking page where it can be fully fleshed out

[03:39:42]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +b %#mythtv-users!*@*

[03:39:46]

iamlindoro:

damn it

[03:39:50]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : -b %#mythtv-users!*@*

[03:39:55]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : -b %dagmar!*@*

[03:39:58]

iamlindoro:

better

[03:40:02]

iamlindoro:

take a time out

[03:40:33]

Mode for #mythtv-users by iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@unaffiliated/iamlindoro : +b %dagmar!*@*

[03:40:41]

iamlindoro:

there, sheesh, silly new hyperion

[03:41:39]

iamlindoro:

I am tired of warning the same people once a day. For anyone I've warned numerous times before, I'm just going to start quieting and banning on the first offense

[03:41:52]

iamlindoro:

If I can make freenode's silly new software work, sigh

[03:43:50]

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[03:45:39]

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[03:45:47]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: how long should I wait for a patch to be recognized on ffmpeg-devel before raising it up again?

[03:46:00]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I think it's safe to ping now, I saw you send it the other day

[03:46:05]

iamlindoro:

what's it been, 3 days or so?

[03:46:12]

Scum-bag:

Hey I'm getting a lot of corrupted coverart downloaded, is there anyway of fixing this?

[03:46:25]

wagnerrp:

corrupted coverart?

[03:46:43]

Scum-bag:

yeah, partial images or just grey

[03:46:44]

elmojo:

couple days

[03:47:05]

Scum-bag:

some fanart too.

[03:47:13]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, probably safe now, I would think, but you could wait until tomorrow-- or raise it in #ffmpeg-devel I guess

[03:47:29]

wagnerrp:

considering artwork is downloaded over TCP, corruption should not be possible

[03:47:38]

wagnerrp:

you could be getting failed partial downloads

[03:47:44]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: ok, will do

[03:47:44]

GreyFoxx:

Scum-bag: Bad ram ?

[03:47:48]

wagnerrp:

or the file on the website may itself be bad

[03:48:02]

wagnerrp:

or yeah, like GreyFoxx is suggesting, some hardware error

[03:48:04]

GreyFoxx:

I had ram in one of my box failing the other day. It was causing all kinds of corrupt files

[03:48:05]

Scum-bag:

let me dig out a log.... one sec

[03:48:12]

GreyFoxx:

run memtest over night

[03:48:28]

Scum-bag:

will do, didn't think of ram

[03:48:36]

Scum-bag:

let me get that log...

[03:49:09]

foxbuntu:

iamlindoro, you are my hero!

[03:49:12]

foxbuntu:

;)

[03:49:58]

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[03:51:34]

Scum-bag:

2010-01–25 11:50:42.643 Error loading image to scale, from file: myth://Coverart@127.0.0.1:6543/0087469_coverart.png

[03:51:49]

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[03:51:52]

Scum-bag:

2010-01–25 11:50:39.874 Video Data Query: Executing "'/usr/share/mythtv/mythvideo/scripts/tmdb.pl' -D 1032815"

[03:51:53]

Scum-bag:

libpng error: Read Error

[03:52:06]

Dagmar:

You need to test your RAM and run SMART checks on your disks if that doesn't turn up something

[03:52:48]

Scum-bag:

ok, anything else you think would be beneficial?

[03:53:07]

Dagmar:

Hvaing a replacement mainboard and CPU handy in case it's neither of those

[03:53:23]

Scum-bag:

LOL!

[03:53:47]

Dagmar:

The RAM will almost certainly test bad

[03:53:52]

Scum-bag:

New system then, I like that, any excuse to go shopping ;-)

[03:54:25]

GreyFoxx:

memtest has helped solve many a "wtf is going on" mystery :)

[03:54:26]

Dagmar:

If you want to push that theory, use tar and gzip to make a big archive (say 3x your RAM), and then uncompress it and compare the two copies

[03:55:12]

Scum-bag:

ok, I'll reboot the box and get the memtest started before the shops shut

[03:55:23]

Dagmar:

I kinda doubt you'll jave to wait for more than 20 minutes before memtest finds something wrong

[03:55:49]

Scum-bag:

Don't say that, I was hoping it would find nothing.

[03:56:05]

Dagmar:

You *don't* want it to find nothing

[03:56:17]

Dagmar:

Those aren't the kinds of errors one should get from software

[03:56:56]

Dagmar:

The thing is getting those files over TCP. There's literally no way they could be corrupted in transit unless they're just being truncated somehow.

[03:57:04]

Dagmar:

TCP would retransmit broken packets

[03:57:42]

Dagmar:

If it's not the RAM it's more than likely going to be the CPU or mainboard or disk failing

[03:58:06]

wagnerrp:

if it were disk, your OS is probably screaming at you about it in the root terminal

[03:58:15]

Scum-bag:

Sorry what keyboard button do I press to get to the memtest option (ubuntu)

[03:58:25]

Dagmar:

If you're runing Ubuntu, it should have a smart check being run from cron that will probably be complaining about your disk any minute now if there's something wrong there

[03:58:29]

wagnerrp:

the reset button

[03:58:37]

wagnerrp:

you boot into memtest

[03:58:46]

Dagmar:

You reboot and pick the memtest option from the grub menu, man

[03:58:46]

wagnerrp:

you cannot (should not) run it from within linux

[03:59:13]

Scum-bag:

yeah got that only not options showing during boot

[03:59:29]

wagnerrp:

download it and toss it into a floppy

[03:59:41]

Dagmar:

ahem

[03:59:45]

mag0o:

whats a floppy?

[03:59:47]

mag0o:

:)

[03:59:52]

wagnerrp:

download it and toss it into a flash drive

[03:59:55]

Dagmar:

suggestion: use a trustworty machine to download and burn them image

[04:00:08]

Scum-bag:

yeah got it

[04:00:18]

ip_goat_rodeo:

ultimate boot cd has several flavors of memtest86 on it

[04:00:42]

Dagmar:

This will probably turn out to be the usual "Don't already have it so I can't get it" rodeo

[04:01:08]

Scum-bag:

ok memtest running How long is a typical test on 4gb RAM?

[04:01:22]

GreyFoxx:

I ave slax on a bootable usb stick for emergencie repairs and because it has memtest on it by default :)

[04:01:26]

foxbuntu:

4 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes

[04:01:32]

foxbuntu:

;)

[04:01:36]

GreyFoxx:

It's always in my pocket :)

[04:01:37]

Scum-bag:

WOW thats fast!

[04:02:26]

wagnerrp:

Scum-bag: youre probably looking at several hours to confirm that its (probably) not the memory access

[04:03:03]

Scum-bag:

Ok thanks for the heads up. it's now @ 10%

[04:03:14]

wagnerrp:

i say probably because i had an error at one point that would only manifest itself if the computer was running hard

[04:03:24]

Dagmar:

I'm betting it might well call foul within the first 20 minutes when it does it's first blisteringly primitive pass at a pattern test

[04:03:29]

wagnerrp:

and since memtest doesnt really load down anything but memory access

[04:03:44]

wagnerrp:

whatever was the problem wasnt getting stressed properly

[04:04:11]

wagnerrp:

memtest would only fail if i ran the machine hard, let it bluescreen, and rebooted straight into memtest

[04:04:13]

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[04:04:25]

Dagmar:

If not the "create a LARGE compressed archive and then decompress/validate it" would turn up issues if it's a bad CPu/motherboard/disk

[04:05:07]

Scum-bag:

I moved my video collection from one drive to another using tar and that didn't throw anything up

[04:05:12]

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[04:05:29]

wagnerrp:

did you use compression?

[04:05:29]

Dagmar:

Nothing was checking to make sure those files were being copied correctly, either.

[04:05:44]

Scum-bag:

Umm, good point

[04:05:46]

Dagmar:

Compression checks the integrity of the data as a side effect

[04:05:46]

wagnerrp:

tar doesnt care if its valid data

[04:05:49]

wagnerrp:

only the compressors do

[04:06:03]

Dagmar:

You can use dd and write garbage in the middle of tar files and as long as you don't hit a header it'll never know

[04:06:03]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, I missed the scroll back, whats the basic problem that you are trying to confirm?

[04:06:18]

wagnerrp:

foxbuntu: corrupt metadata images

[04:06:31]

Scum-bag:

I'm getting a lot of corrupted artwork & fanart

[04:06:58]

foxbuntu:

wagnerrp, wasnt there a known software issue sometime ago with that?

[04:07:13]

foxbuntu:

seems like there was a bug something dealing with that

[04:07:15]

wagnerrp:

not that im aware of

[04:07:31]

foxbuntu:

perhaps it had something to do with OpenGL v QT?

[04:07:36]

Scum-bag:

I moved my video collection and reformatted the drive and put everything back. Then I scanned for changes and then some coverart was corrupted.

[04:07:39]

foxbuntu:

or are the images infact bad on the machine?

[04:07:43]

wagnerrp:

no, libpng is failing to open the file

[04:07:47]

wagnerrp:

not display corruption

[04:08:16]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, images in MythVideo or fanart in recordings?

[04:08:21]

Scum-bag:

Well some are, some just not displayed correctly. If I switch views then some are correctly displayed

[04:08:38]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, actually more specificly, are you using jamu?

[04:08:40]

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[04:08:44]

Dagmar:

If they display correctly at some times and not others, that just pretty much ruled out the disk

[04:08:45]

Scum-bag:

Images in MythVideo, haven't got any recordings

[04:09:04]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, are you using jamu?

[04:09:06]

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[04:09:29]

Dagmar:

It would also rule out jamu

[04:09:45]

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[04:09:54]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, are you using QT painter or OpenGL?

[04:10:01]

Scum-bag:

I have been running Jamu to populate, but that failed as thetvdb.com was down

[04:10:08]

Scum-bag:

OpenGL

[04:10:27]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, try switching to QT

[04:10:32]

Dagmar:

It's possible thetvdb is having a disk meltdown, but that would not explain why images would display correctly only part of the time

[04:11:31]

Scum-bag:

Yes, but the Movies I have are the ones with corrupted images, TV Shows seem to be ok. I have checked the images on the remote server and they are ok

[04:11:37]

RDV_Linux:

Scum-bag: Have you tried viewing the images that appear corrupted through image-viewer. Find out if the image file is corrupted.

[04:12:09]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, please attempt switching to QT theme painter

[04:12:43]

iamlindoro:

images loading in some views but not in others suggests one of two possibilities: corrupt themecache or odd scaling in libpng

[04:13:11]

Scum-bag:

Yeah I have and some have been and some not. I have manually downloaded them and tried to point the coverart back to the new images, and it still displays corrupted

[04:13:23]

Scum-bag:

memtest @ 36%

[04:13:31]

Scum-bag:

woooosh...

[04:14:03]

Scum-bag:

brb

[04:14:17]

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[04:15:08]

foxbuntu:

iamlindoro, you would know :)

[04:15:13]

Dagmar:

If you manually downloaded these images and they STILL showed up corrupted, did you try looking at one of them on _some other probably working machine_

[04:16:39]

Scum-bag:

Yeah I have and they look fine strangely enough

[04:16:41]

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[04:17:57]

Scum-bag:

I have also reset the metadata and scanned for changes then gone back and fetched the meta data again and still no change. I have even deleted the imaged form disk and now change on download.

[04:18:28]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, but have you cleared the theme cache as iamlindoro suggested?

[04:18:52]

Scum-bag:

This made me think it was the remote server but having gone to another machine with the URL in hand and checked from there they are fins

[04:19:14]

Scum-bag:

No I haven't

[04:19:32]

Scum-bag:

where does it live on disk?

[04:21:04]

Scum-bag:

brb...

[04:24:29]

Scum-bag:

nothing from memtest yet.

[04:24:47]

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[04:25:28]

foxbuntu:

Scum-bag, ~/.mythtv/themecache

[04:25:51]

Scum-bag:

thx

[04:27:22]

Scum-bag:

Sorry having lunch, yeah too much information eh? I'll empty the cache when memtest had done.

[04:28:41]

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[04:37:14]

Tanthrix:

On the topic of memtest earlier, has anyone actually ever had memtest find an error after 20–30 minutes of testing?

[04:37:41]

Dagmar:

Yep.

[04:37:42]

Tanthrix:

I've used it easily a few hundred times in my life, and I've found that it either gives errors in the first 30 seconds or not at all.

[04:37:43]

wagnerrp:

yes

[04:37:54]

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[04:38:44]

cesman:

anyone w/ an HD PVR seen "device descriptor read/64, error -71"?

[04:39:05]

cesman:

if so, have your resolved it?

[04:39:08]

cesman:

if so, how?

[04:39:11]

Dagmar:

did you bother to Google that?

[04:39:31]

cesman:

yes, I did

[04:39:44]

Dagmar:

So that ubuntu guy had a different issue from you?

[04:39:52]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar/wagnerrp: Interesting. I've of course had some systems that rebooted during the test (due to psu / mobo issues) but never seen an error appear after extended testing.

[04:40:39]

cesman:

Dagmar: if that was directed at me, I've no idea what "ubuntu guy" you are referring to

[04:40:46]

Tanthrix:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=797789

[04:40:48]

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[04:40:59]

Dagmar:

It's the first hit you get when you google for "device descriptor read/64, error -71" and it's got [solved] in the subject

[04:41:58]

cesman:

if seen various "solved" related to the issue for various USB devices

[04:42:04]

cesman:

none have worked for me

[04:42:33]

Dagmar:

Try again http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=797789

[04:42:54]

Tanthrix:

My HD-PVR is coming tomorrow, I'm crossing my fingers that it isn't going to be a nightmare to get working reliably

[04:44:42]

Dagmar:

It shouldn't be a problem if your USB setup is sane

[04:45:52]

Dagmar:

I'm sure his machine is saying a lot more to him than just that one line.

[04:46:50]

Tanthrix:

My system has an Intel P43 chipset, hopefully that will constitute as sane.

[04:47:07]

RyeBrye:

If you send it to me, I'll tell you if I can get it to work or not ;)

[04:47:09]

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[04:48:18]

Tanthrix:

ICH10 family USB controller, more specifically. I'll just hope for the best.

[04:48:36]

Dagmar:

Have you used thumbdrives with it before?

[04:49:14]

Tanthrix:

Yes. (Well, more specifically, an externel USB to SATA/IDE adapter.)

[04:49:41]

Dagmar:

Then either get used to the idea that it's reliable or go out shopping for adult diapers

[04:50:20]

Tanthrix:

I'll get used to it after my HD-PVR has ran for a month without missing a single recording.

[04:53:16]

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[04:53:24]

Dagmar:

Well, the one I got straight from Hauppauge hasn't really bothered to get warm yet

[04:54:14]

Dagmar:

My one and only problem with it is that the recordings are still OMGHUGE and I've not gotten around to setting up a more conservative problem

[04:54:18]

Dagmar:

s/problem/profile/;

[04:55:05]

Tanthrix:

Something tells me my 320GB drive may not be up to the task.

[04:56:21]

Dagmar:

Oh come on

[04:56:28]

Dagmar:

It'll hold at least 80 hours

[04:57:01]

Tanthrix:

I like to hang onto some recordings for quite a while sometimes...a stupid habit which I will learn to break.

[04:57:12]

Tanthrix:

My other real concern apart from reliability is playback / seek speed.

[04:57:26]

Dagmar:

That won't be an issue

[04:57:50]

Tanthrix:

I've got 5 random files allegedly straight from the HD PVR. 4 (all from the same source) won't play in mythvideo, and the one that does is probably 4–5x slower than MPEG2 at seeking

[04:58:20]

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[04:58:23]

Dagmar:

The messed up thing is that my W7 box will more readily play the freakin' h.264 recording than it would the slightly cooked ones the PVR-500 was creating.

[04:58:41]

Dagmar:

...and the files the HD-PVR makes give VLC *fits* when they change resolution on the fly

[04:58:57]

Dagmar:

Half the Windows tools I have for cutting these things up just outright balk

[04:59:22]

Tanthrix:

How about seeking? Can you fast forward, for instance, as smoothly as you can with MPEG2?

[05:00:16]

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[05:00:54]

Dagmar:

Yes. Why wouldn't I be able to?

[05:01:34]

Tanthrix:

Well, as I said, I can't with the test file I've got. But that could be due to a lack of seek tables or some such thing.

[05:01:55]

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[05:02:28]

Tanthrix:

I can skip, but it takes about a half second to a full second to recover properly, and fast forwarding live hardly works at all.

[05:02:54]

Tanthrix:

Compared to MPEG2 which is perfect and immediate on both counts. But, what you've said gives me some hope.

[05:03:46]

Dagmar:

Yeah well, when you get that whole fast-forwarding of live TV thing worked out, let me know

[05:03:57]

Dagmar:

I'll find a way to get the patent fees covered

[05:04:26]

Dagmar:

I think I'll just ffwd my way through a few days of FNN

[05:05:06]

Tanthrix:

Heh, I meant fast forwarding live as in the video speeds up, as opposed to skipping.

[05:05:32]

Dagmar:

You *were* warned that playback of h.264 was ludicrously CPU-intensive, right

[05:06:16]

Dagmar:

After all the pounding on it I did, my dual-core 4600+ can *almost* manage it

[05:06:27]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar, you should know by now that I'm not some newbie off the street after 4 years of hanging around here on and off. ;)

[05:06:45]

Tanthrix:

(So, to answer your question, yes I am aware of that, which is why I just bought a GT 220 recently to take advantage of VDPAU.)

[05:06:49]

Dagmar:

So like, don't get excited about it being sluggish to play back faster than realtime

[05:07:03]

Dagmar:

Just tell it to skip ahead by whole minutes like I do

[05:07:47]

Tanthrix:

That's what I was asking, and I can live with that. But how is the skipping compared to MPEG2? Instant, or half second wait each skip then half second to recover from garbled frames?

[05:08:26]

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[05:08:33]

wagnerrp:

Tanthrix: any skips in recordings will be near instant

[05:08:46]

Dagmar:

I've seen no garbled frames in any case

[05:08:51]

wagnerrp:

remember, mythtv stores a seektable during recording to allow it to do so

[05:09:03]

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[05:09:03]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Great. So am I correct in assuming that the issues I've seen with my test file in mythvideo are due to lack of seektables?

[05:09:12]

wagnerrp:

most likely

[05:09:13]

Dagmar:

That and sketchy encoding

[05:09:14]

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[05:09:32]

wagnerrp:

i had problems with recordings i exported to mythtv directly

[05:09:40]

wagnerrp:

until i started duplicating over the seektable

[05:09:45]

Tanthrix:

wagnerrp: Nifty. I am, of course, expecting some slowdown compared to MPEG2, I just don't think I could handle a full second wait for every skip, as that would get all.

[05:09:56]

Dagmar:

It should always be able to pick up playback without corruption by starting at an I-frame instead of a B-frame

[05:09:57]

Tanthrix:

get old, rather.

[05:10:21]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: well without the seektables, it doesnt

[05:10:29]

Dagmar:

Yeah of course

[05:10:40]

wagnerrp:

it would just pick up whereever, and be garbled until it hit an i-frame

[05:10:56]

wagnerrp:

this was a digital recording in mythvideo

[05:10:59]

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[05:11:05]

Tanthrix:

Excellent, well now I'm much more optimistic.

[05:11:12]

Dagmar:

Yes, there's rather tons of video on the internet encoded by people who seem to think I-frames should be used sparingly, if at all

[05:11:16]

teknopagan:

Evening, folks

[05:11:20]

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[05:11:27]

Dagmar:

I'd like to see a lot of those pople strangled to death actually

[05:11:31]

wagnerrp:

a digital recording from an ATSC card

[05:12:01]

Dagmar:

It's not like it would be the end of hte world if they just made them happen once every 2–3 seconds

[05:12:16]

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[05:12:23]

teknopagan:

Evening, folks

[05:12:41]

teknopagan:

Just picked up a HDHomerun and am having some troubles making it work

[05:12:45]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: well it becomes a problem with FF greater than 3x

[05:12:58]

wagnerrp:

3x does full decoding, or however fast your machine can manage

[05:13:03]

wagnerrp:

while 5x and better skips around

[05:13:21]

teknopagan:

Got it added in mythtv-setup alright, but not seeing how to change my frontend to use it

[05:13:24]

wagnerrp:

so skipping around without seektables, the whole thing was just garbage

[05:13:33]

wagnerrp:

even with i-frames every half second

[05:13:45]

Dagmar:

I don't see what that's got to do with some of the cooked videos I have where for some reason they forced their encoder to put a full i-frame in the file about once every three minutes

[05:14:09]

sphery:

ah, stuartm will love this one: [mythtv-commits] Ticket #7958: gnome panel shows even when "fullscreen" selected

[05:14:35]

Dagmar:

Tell them to run xkill an click on the panel. Porblem solved

[05:14:49]

wagnerrp:

rather... not-a-mythtv-problem

[05:14:50]

teknopagan:

even more fun due to the fact that the frontend on my backend is fried, so I have to run upstairs and downstairs whenever I need to test something

[05:14:52]

Dagmar:

Then later they can turn the option they set to make it always stay on top back off again

[05:15:27]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: if your frontend is not using it, then its not set up 'alright'

[05:15:32]

Dagmar:

I'm quite familiar with that particular newbie mistake when messing about in GNOME's sundry config menus

[05:15:41]

[R]:

wtf mate

[05:15:42]

wagnerrp:

do you have a laptop or something you can use?

[05:15:44]

[R]:

i've already seen this episdoe before

[05:15:46]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup can be run remotely

[05:15:47]

[R]:

why did it rerecord it

[05:16:21]

Dagmar:

Since when do frontends directly access hdhomeruns?

[05:16:29]

teknopagan:

Well...the channels for it show up (4.1, etc) but when I select them, it changes the channel via the STB I have hooked up to my hauppauge card

[05:16:31]

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[05:16:57]

teknopagan:

...if that makes sense

[05:17:21]

wagnerrp:

only if for some odd reason you gave a digital tuner a channel changer script

[05:17:30]

wagnerrp:

does myth even allow that?

[05:17:34]

Dagmar:

Then you need to go back into mythtv-setup and set up your tuners and inputs correctly this time

[05:17:43]

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[05:17:43]

teknopagan:

[R], did the info for the show indicate that it was new?

[05:17:49]

Dagmar:

It's using the wrong input entirely

[05:17:51]

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[05:18:08]

[R]:

teknopagan: no, its a very old rerun

[05:18:16]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, that's what I thought, but I didn't see anything in setup

[05:18:30]

teknopagan:

[R], have you recorded it before on your myth system?

[05:18:36]

[R]:

teknopagan: i'm like 90% sure

[05:19:08]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: Yes you did. Go tell it to nuke all sources and cards, and start over with JUST the HDHomeRun

[05:19:22]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, can I run mythtv-setup while mythfilldatabase is running?

[05:19:35]

Dagmar:

nope, but it's not like stopping mythfilldatabase will be the end of the world

[05:19:39]

Dagmar:

it takes minutes, not days

[05:20:15]

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[05:20:28]

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[05:21:04]

Dagmar:

My guess is that part of the issue is more of that spectacular logic the backend has about which tuner it should use at any given moment

[05:21:08]

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[05:21:26]

teknopagan:

OK, doing that now

[05:21:32]

Dagmar:

This is why I'm saying set it up with no other anythings but the one source feed for your OTA/ClearQAM and the HDHomerune first

[05:21:42]

Dagmar:

Then you can at least be sure the box isn't broken.

[05:22:08]

teknopagan:

scanning for channels now...

[05:22:13]

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[05:22:16]

Dagmar:

I'm also going to say right now that if your STB has channels the HDHomeRun can't get, run, do not walk, back to SchedulesDirect and add a second lineup

[05:22:20]

teknopagan:

So, I built one of those coat-hanger HD antennas this weekend

[05:22:31]

Dagmar:

Told you it was easy

[05:22:43]

Dagmar:

Just a little tedious with dull snips at times

[05:22:54]

sphery:

[R]: was it a generic episode? If so, see "[mythtv-users] Scheduling conflict question" from about an hour ago

[05:23:03]

teknopagan:

getting 90%+ on all but one channel

[05:23:09]

Dagmar:

The first one I built, apparently I was aiming for the level of quality you might need to send transmissions round trip to mars

[05:23:16]

teknopagan:

the one weak channel is at ~73%

[05:23:22]

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[05:23:22]

[R]:

sphery: oh, thats possible

[05:23:29]

[R]:

sphery: i dont have the original one anymore

[05:23:46]

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[05:24:01]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, I used the snips on my leatherman – easy as pie

[05:24:05]

sphery:

[R]: but this one wasn't generic?

[05:24:09]

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[05:24:19]

[R]:

sphery: its got a subtitle

[05:24:22]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, already had both lineups set up in SD

[05:24:23]

[R]:

tahts not generic right?

[05:24:31]

sphery:

i.e you have a real description, not "Marge and Homer raise kids, Bart and Lisa." or whatever

[05:24:36]

[R]:

yeah, its real

[05:24:43]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: Okay that's good. It also means you can skip the scanning step entirely.

[05:25:02]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: If SD knows the lineups, you can just tell it to fetch 'em from there

[05:25:13]

rockcabilla:

hi

[05:25:18]

sphery:

well, Manage Recordings|Previously Recorded would show you past history of actual recordings and all matches for the last 10 days (including ones that didn't record)

[05:25:20]

rockcabilla:

what script should I insert as audio keep working when I close "watch tv" ?

[05:25:32]

Dagmar:

Later you can take a stick and knock all knowledge of any SD-quality channels from your STB out of it

[05:26:03]

teknopagan:

Ah, I see the Icon Importer is still a PITA

[05:26:05]

Dagmar:

rockcabilla: How about the "set the mixer device for the line input to mute like it says in the install documentation" one

[05:26:10]

[R]:

sphery: speaking of previously recorded... in mythweb when i click on something previously recorded... there is an optino to "forget" it... but the button never works... is there a way to do it from the frontend?

[05:26:33]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, fetching didn't work for some reason

[05:26:35]

Dagmar:

[r]: What, it won't forget that it's recorded that episode?

[05:26:40]

sphery:

[R]: Manage Recordings|Previously Recorded. I think you just hit Select on the episode

[05:26:48]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: Make sure you put in the right l/p then

[05:26:52]

[R]:

sphery: ah... so i'm looking through the list for this episode

[05:26:58]

sphery:

[R]: can you 1 and 2 to sort by title and time (and toggle ascending/descending)

[05:27:00]

[R]:

Dagmar: seperate questions

[05:27:06]

[R]:

sphery: yeah, i saw that at the top

[05:27:37]

teknopagan:

Oh, it pulls the lineups just fine – just won't fetch channels

[05:27:50]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: If it can't fetch then odds are it won't be able to get listings data anywa

[05:28:14]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: If it just sits there for about a minute doing nothing in particular after you['ve pushed the button--that's the way it's supposed to behave

[05:28:21]

sphery:

we really need to get some good UI guy ( iamlindoro :) to go in and turn Previously Recorded from a 1-column list to a 2-column list (of titles, then expand to 2nd column for subtitles)--even if only one is visible at a time

[05:29:26]

sphery:

or at least get him to give me an idea of what the theme would need the code to do for that to work

[05:29:31]

[R]:

hrm

[05:29:33]

[R]:

didnt find it

[05:29:36]

[R]:

it may have been generic

[05:29:44]

sphery:

must have been

[05:29:46]

[R]:

oh well

[05:29:56]

[R]:

its a good ep anyway

[05:29:58]

[R]:

still gonna watch it

[05:29:59]

sphery:

also note that sometimes you have "double" episodes aired during the season

[05:30:03]

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[05:30:17]

sphery:

(i.e. "Tonight's 2-hour Fringe"...)

[05:30:27]

sphery:

and then re-aired as separate 1-hr episodes

[05:30:30]

wagnerrp:

erm... tonight's?

[05:30:31]

sphery:

those end up as 3 episodes

[05:30:39]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, well, I guess that would explain why I thought it wasn't working

[05:30:47]

sphery:

that was the announcer on Fox, not a reference to reality :)

[05:31:06]

wagnerrp:

hopefully not, i surely didnt record it

[05:31:12]

sphery:

nor I :)

[05:31:33]

sphery:

should have picked an example no one would worry about missing...

[05:31:43]

sphery:

"Tonight's 2-hr American Idol" :)

[05:32:03]

sphery:

though those probably don't repeat

[05:32:07]

teknopagan:

here's crossing my fingers and hoping in the next version the devs add the ability to interrupt the icon importer

[05:32:30]

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[05:35:12]

sphery:

teknopagan: the channel icon importer in the GUI is one of the most feared parts of code in Myth--no one wants to deal with it because it's a huge mess and it's not something they use often (or at all)

[05:35:27]

sphery:

I'm partial to the channel_icons.pl script

[05:36:27]

teknopagan:

hehe

[05:37:11]

teknopagan:

OK, running mythfilldatabase again for just the HDHomerun

[05:37:26]

sphery:

teknopagan: fwiw: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/branches/r . . . l?format=txt

[05:38:24]

teknopagan:

thanks, sphery – will check that out

[05:39:40]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: you ever have issues with audio getting out-of-sync with VC1 when skipping around?

[05:40:44]

teknopagan:

I've been having fun lately with timeshifting being all out of whack after coming out of powersave – have to go move the mouse around to un-break it

[05:41:14]

teknopagan:

lately I've just been remembering to move the mouse to wake up from powersave rather than hitting a button on the remote

[05:42:31]

teknopagan:

ok, gonna go grab a smoke while mythfilldatabase runs

[05:45:06]

Dagmar:

sphery: When it talks about submitting results about which icon you picked back to the community, it's just blowing smoke up our rears, isn't it

[05:48:41]

teknopagan:

OK, so what's the expected behavior for watching live TV with mutliple tuners?

[05:48:55]

teknopagan:

bah, :s/mutliple/multiple

[05:53:11]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, no dice – I get "MythTV is using all inputs, but there are no active recordings"

[05:54:50]

teknopagan:

Going to try rebooting the backend – back in a few

[05:55:11]

Dagmar:

This is why I said to nuke them *all*

[05:55:20]

Dagmar:

Just focus on getting one working at a time.

[05:55:31]

Dagmar:

It's much harder to make any mistakes

[05:55:55]

teknopagan:

Did nuke them all – blew it out completely and redid the HDHomerun only

[05:56:15]

Dagmar:

So it shouldn't think none are free

[05:56:27]

Dagmar:

It should think it's got one, and nothing's using it

[05:57:13]

teknopagan:

That's what I thought – actually, it should think it's got 2

[05:58:00]

Dagmar:

You've got the dual-tuner HDHomeRun then?

[05:58:07]

teknopagan:

right

[05:59:17]

oobe:

lol tvdb is having no space left of device errors when i try to upload screenshots

[05:59:33]

Dagmar:

ouch

[06:00:38]

teknopagan:

So, going to try the reboot option – back in 2

[06:00:40]

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oobe:

Warning: move_uploaded_file(banners/episodes/73028/1401661.jpg) [function.move-uploaded-file]: failed to open stream: No space left on device in /home/thetvdb/www/index.php on line 1013

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[06:26:30]

teknopagan:

OK, HDHomerun is working – time to set up the Hauppauge again

[06:30:21]

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[06:32:13]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, what should I expect while watching live TV from a user standpoint now that I have multiple tuners?

[06:33:28]

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[06:37:00]

[R]:

teknopagan: nothing?

[06:39:19]

teknopagan:

looks like Dagmar's not around atm

[06:40:50]

teknopagan:

So, I'm mildly annoyed at the fact that I apparently will have to rebuild my scheduled recordings from memory, as dumping the Hauppauge dumped all associated recordings with it

[06:41:25]

[R]:

recordings shoudn't be tied to inputs...

[06:41:34]

teknopagan:

You'd think, right?

[06:41:35]

[R]:

they may have been tied to channels

[06:41:41]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: not exactly

[06:41:48]

wagnerrp:

what [R] said, they were tied to channels

[06:42:00]

wagnerrp:

if you simply change the rule so that it will run on any channel, they will record just fine

[06:42:23]

teknopagan:

Is it possible that they'll come back when I re-add the Hauppauge?]

[06:42:47]

** teknopagan is crossing his fingers **

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[06:49:08]

waterfoul1:

My room mate has created a network share on his windows desktop and mounted it in the myth tv videos directory, myth picks up the video just fine but whenever we play it it gets choppy. Any ideas on how to fix this?

[06:49:31]

[R]:

what codec is it

[06:49:34]

[R]:

what kind of network is it

[06:49:34]

wagnerrp:

you arent by any chance using wireless are you?

[06:49:38]

[R]:

is it smb or cifs

[06:50:19]

wagnerrp:

windows is CIFS, but specifically are you using the smb drivers or cifs drivers?

[06:50:24]

waterfoul1:

it is over 10/100 and it is avi

[06:50:34]

wagnerrp:

avi != codec

[06:51:54]

waterfoul1:

ok how do i find out the codec? and also we have the command for avi set to "mplayer -vo xv -fs -zoom -display :0.1

[06:51:57]

waterfoul1:

oops

[06:52:01]

waterfoul1:

bumped enter

[06:52:21]

waterfoul1:

ok how do i find out the codec? and also we have the command for avi set to "mplayer -vo xv -fs -zoom -display :0.1 -cache 2048 %s"

[06:52:31]

[R]:

if mplayer is playing it

[06:52:34]

[R]:

what does it have to do with myth?

[06:52:47]

waterfoul1:

sorry i didn't realize he changed it

[06:53:25]

waterfoul1:

thanks anyway

[06:54:25]

wagnerrp:

anyway... play the file, check your cpu usage

[06:54:37]

wagnerrp:

if your cpu is pegged, you have insufficient processor to plat the file

[06:54:58]

wagnerrp:

if not, you need to tweak the cifs mount options

[06:55:14]

wagnerrp:

and possibly replace semi-broken network cards

[06:55:51]

wagnerrp:

you should have no problem pushing 10+MB/s over samba/100mbps on halfway decent hardware

[06:58:48]

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[07:00:03]

waterfoul1:

thanks

[07:00:46]

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[07:02:35]

Speedy2:

I was never able to saturate an Ethernet link of SMB but I always could with FTP. Maybe CIFS/SMB implementations have gotten better over time.

[07:02:39]

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[07:03:12]

wagnerrp:

i pull 9–10MB/s on my 100mbps machines, and 50–60MB/s on my gigabit machines

[07:03:22]

wagnerrp:

windows clients on a samba share

[07:03:28]

Speedy2:

windows server?

[07:03:38]

wagnerrp:

samba server

[07:04:01]

Speedy2:

Interesting. I'll be curious to try it out when I switch over to Linux for DE use.

[07:04:02]

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[07:04:37]

teknopagan:

If I wanted to build a diskless frontend, what would I want for a minimum of RAM?

[07:04:54]

teknopagan:

Trying to choose between 2 and 4GB

[07:05:07]

Speedy2:

teknopagan: I think 512MB would even be enough

[07:05:08]

wagnerrp:

1GB

[07:05:18]

wagnerrp:

512 is generally enough

[07:05:19]

teknopagan:

Really that low, even for HD playback?

[07:05:29]

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[07:05:33]

wagnerrp:

but if you expect to be loading a lot of artwork, you want a bit more

[07:05:36]

Speedy2:

teknopagan: Are you going to use VDPAU?

[07:05:40]

wagnerrp:

why would HD playback require memory?

[07:05:47]

Speedy2:

Exactly.

[07:05:57]

teknopagan:

wagnerrp, not sure – thought maybe it would need it for buffering

[07:06:06]

ip_goat_rodeo:

past 60mbyte/sec you are in pci-e/pci-x-only nic territory

[07:06:11]

wagnerrp:

mythtv only has minimal buffering

[07:06:22]

wagnerrp:

it expects you have a stable network

[07:06:26]

Speedy2:

teknopagan: Compressed video bitrates are < 40 Mbps

[07:06:33]

teknopagan:

Speedy2, yes, picked a mobo with an nvidia GeForce 8200 onboard

[07:06:38]

wagnerrp:

make that <20mbps

[07:06:50]

wagnerrp:

bluray is the only thing that gets significanly above that

[07:07:05]

teknopagan:

Planning on having bluray compatibility as well

[07:07:08]

Speedy2:

ip_goat_rodeo: Do you push those throughputs over gige?

[07:07:21]

wagnerrp:

ip_goat_rodeo: most onboard gigabit is pcie connected now

[07:07:21]

teknopagan:

Actually...does myth support bluray yet?

[07:07:41]

[R]:

linux doesn't support bluray

[07:07:48]

teknopagan:

Ah, crap

[07:07:52]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I have on one of my boxes

[07:07:57]

[R]:

you can rip the video off of it

[07:07:59]

wagnerrp:

ip_goat_rodeo: my PCI Intel nics rate at 980mbps on iperf, effectively line speed

[07:08:02]

[R]:

then its just an h264 video

[07:08:17]

teknopagan:

Oh, well, that should work then

[07:08:25]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: using anydvdhd under windows

[07:08:31]

ip_goat_rodeo:

550mbit/sec stateful firewalling on a core2 duo 8500 and dual intel pci-e nics

[07:08:42]

teknopagan:

Will have to teach my folks how to rip though

[07:09:06]

wagnerrp:

ip_goat_rodeo: is that network performance, or cifs performance?

[07:09:09]

teknopagan:

Either way, I'm still good at 1GB per frontend?

[07:09:14]

Speedy2:

teknopagan: Plenty.

[07:09:22]

wagnerrp:

Speedy2++

[07:09:23]

teknopagan:

sweet – that'll save some cash

[07:09:39]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I'd expect cifs to be faster, since less cpu is involved.

[07:09:41]

[R]:

teknopagan: with an onboard vdpau, its gonna be sharing ram

[07:09:49]

wagnerrp:

than what?

[07:09:54]

[R]:

teknopagan: i was OOM'ing with only 1gb of system ram with 512 on the video side

[07:09:59]

wagnerrp:

what tool are you seeing that speed with?

[07:10:01]

ip_goat_rodeo:

than stateful firewalling

[07:10:23]

teknopagan:

OOM?

[07:10:27]

[R]:

out of memory

[07:10:30]

[R]:

it randomly kills stuff

[07:10:31]

ip_goat_rodeo:

fewer pps too with cifs

[07:10:35]

[R]:

to keep the integrity of the systme

[07:10:53]

ip_goat_rodeo:

mbps is not the limiting factor at that scale, its packets/sec usually

[07:11:02]

teknopagan:

What was causing the OOM condition?

[07:11:08]

wagnerrp:

[R]: thats because you had loaded up a bunch of artwork, and had no cache

[07:11:11]

wagnerrp:

erm... swap

[07:11:17]

Speedy2:

I bet jumbo frames will affect CIFS/SMB performance

[07:11:18]

[R]:

well thats what hes asking about

[07:11:19]

[R]:

diskless w/o swap

[07:11:32]

wagnerrp:

ip_goat_rodeo: im running jumbo, so the pps is significantly less of an issue

[07:11:34]

Speedy2:

ip_goat_rodeo: What kind of firewall filters at line rate?

[07:11:50]

[R]:

teknopagan: well seeing as its called "out of memory"...

[07:11:55]

Speedy2:

ip_goat_rodeo: Just curious what your topology is.

[07:12:15]

teknopagan:

Right – I was asking what you were doing that made 1GB not enough

[07:12:25]

[R]:

just normal myth stuff

[07:12:25]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: artwork

[07:12:28]

[R]:

if you want to use network swap

[07:12:33]

[R]:

then 1gb should be fine

[07:12:40]

teknopagan:

?

[07:12:45]

teknopagan:

network swap?

[07:12:46]

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[07:12:50]

[R]:

yes... swap over the network

[07:12:59]

wagnerrp:

sharing a swap file on NFS

[07:13:02]

wagnerrp:

not ideal

[07:13:07]

[R]:

who said antyhing about NFS

[07:13:10]

[R]:

NBD for the win

[07:13:11]

wagnerrp:

or NBD

[07:13:30]

wagnerrp:

either way, probably better to buy a $5 memory stick if you expect to need swap

[07:13:37]

ip_goat_rodeo:

speedy2: that's just default-deny and inbound permits for ipsec, a mail server, sqlnet to a few boxes and a few webservers.

[07:13:52]

[R]:

wagnerrp: $5 for a gb? what parallel universe are you in?

[07:14:24]

[R]:

teknopagan: you'll be much happier with just a full 2gb

[07:14:42]

teknopagan:

[R], I think he was referring to something like a CF or SD card

[07:14:49]

[R]:

teknopagan: ?

[07:14:49]

teknopagan:

amirite?

[07:15:04]

[R]:

oh

[07:15:05]

teknopagan:

flash memory

[07:15:10]

wagnerrp:

[R]: the local microcenter sells them for about that much

[07:15:17]

[R]:

wagnerrp: ram?

[07:15:19]

[R]:

or flash

[07:15:31]

wagnerrp:

flash....

[07:15:35]

[R]:

who puts swap on flash

[07:15:43]

wagnerrp:

who puts swap on the network

[07:15:50]

teknopagan:

haha, burn

[07:15:56]

[R]:

haha

[07:15:57]

[R]:

i did

[07:16:02]

[R]:

until i found a source for ram

[07:16:13]

teknopagan:

really, though, using flash for swap isn't bad, considering how cheap it is

[07:16:32]

ip_goat_rodeo:

better swapping to flash than totally run out of vm in many cases.

[07:16:32]

wagnerrp:

yeah it is... its a terrible idea

[07:16:40]

wagnerrp:

swapping in general is a terrible idea

[07:16:51]

wagnerrp:

but this is just a 'worst case' kind of thing

[07:17:00]

[R]:

ip_goat_rodeo: well of course in that case its better

[07:17:14]

wagnerrp:

just in case you run out of memory, linux wont trash everything

[07:17:48]

wagnerrp:

ill admit, i run swap over the network too (iscsi in my case)

[07:17:56]

wagnerrp:

but i also have snapshots for everything

[07:18:03]

wagnerrp:

so in the event that i ever do crash

[07:18:05]

ip_goat_rodeo:

My usb-stick based firewall at home has 256mb of last-recourse swap on flash. Its never needed it (and probably never will since I quadrupled the memory) but nice to know its there.

[07:18:07]

wagnerrp:

i just dump the image

[07:18:10]

wagnerrp:

cycle new ones in

[07:18:16]

wagnerrp:

and im clean in under 5 minutes

[07:18:44]

Dagmar:

Swap nowadays is pretty much meant to buy you a bit of time before the whole machine goes blooey

[07:19:01]

Dagmar:

To put together a machine that uses swap meaningfully on a regular basis requires a _lot_ of careful planning

[07:19:03]

ip_goat_rodeo:

(The new intel atom 510 mini-itx board makes a damn nice home firewall platform btw)

[07:19:05]

[R]:

i used to run with very liimited swap

[07:19:08]

[R]:

trying to run like 2 VMs

[07:19:09]

[R]:

needless to say

[07:19:14]

[R]:

i OOM'd alot

[07:19:27]

ip_goat_rodeo:

(if you can find a good low-profile second ether)

[07:19:42]

Dagmar:

newegg

[07:19:50]

Dagmar:

There's plenty of low-profile NICs to be had there on the cheap

[07:20:10]

[R]:

"you can start the show in one room... and finish it in another room"... wow, what a novel idea Dish Network

[07:20:16]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I settled for a mediocre one I had in the board bin.

[07:20:19]

[R]:

i wish myth had thought of that 5 years ago

[07:20:34]

[R]:

:)

[07:20:40]

Dagmar:

Myth was around five years ago?

[07:20:45]

[R]:

it was a joke...

[07:20:48]

Dagmar:

Okay

[07:20:56]

wagnerrp:

[R]: well you can bookmark it

[07:20:58]

justinh:

myth was around more than 5 years ago IIRC

[07:21:06]

Dagmar:

You're kidding

[07:21:13]

wagnerrp:

or you can use linuxmce which follows a blutooth dongle around the house

[07:21:23]

Dagmar:

Yuk.

[07:21:31]

justinh:

wagnerrp: I wouldn't have said 'use' personally ;)

[07:21:33]

[R]:

the timestamp for 0.13 on the ftp says 12/11/03

[07:21:40]

Dagmar:

I like bluetooth except most of the audio devices suck and the latency is murder

[07:21:58]

justinh:

ah maybe that's why pulseaudio is so

[07:22:10]

justinh:

so it'll seem the same with bluetooth audio devices :D

[07:22:36]

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[07:23:25]

teknopagan:

actually, I'm strongly considering linuxmce for my folks

[07:23:56]

justinh:

taste knows no bounds

[07:24:30]

Dagmar:

Man if you're dealing with "old people factor" just get them a TiVo

[07:24:37]

wagnerrp:

linuxmce is only really usable beyond myth if you intend to interface it with a bunch of external home automation stuff

[07:24:37]

teknopagan:

hehe

[07:24:46]

justinh:

that's what I'd have said too Dagmar

[07:24:58]

Dagmar:

I have parents. They're working on being elderly.

[07:25:03]

wagnerrp:

and the recent event system is helping remove the advantage

[07:25:14]

teknopagan:

They're wanting something that will give them central storage of their media, including music

[07:25:22]

wagnerrp:

mythtv will do that

[07:25:23]

Dagmar:

I keep threatening to buy them a mac if they don't stop opening those email attachments and clicking Yes on every little box that appears

[07:25:25]

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[07:25:36]

wagnerrp:

once someone steps up to rewrite mythmusic, it may even look nice doing so

[07:25:43]

Dagmar:

teknopagan: Alternatively, Microsoft makes a sort-of-appliance ofr that now

[07:25:51]

teknopagan:

Right – linuxmce is basically just myth with a bunch of extra crap tacked on

[07:25:57]

Dagmar:

It took them long enough to come up with something to compete with Apple's Time Machine

[07:26:02]

wagnerrp:

s/myth/very aged myth/

[07:26:02]

justinh:

teknopagan: duct taped on more like

[07:26:12]

teknopagan:

oops..sorry, Dagmar, I just threw up in my mouth a little

[07:26:27]

Dagmar:

It *does* work, regardless of who made it

[07:26:39]

Dagmar:

Granted it'll probably hand over your videos to anyone who asks the right way

[07:26:42]

[R]:

has anyone called it an apple "Time Bomb" yet?

[07:26:45]

[R]:

that'd be a funny name

[07:26:48]

wagnerrp:

except for that whole data corruption thing they had a while back

[07:27:17]

Speedy2:

what do you guys think of XBMC as a FE to Myth?

[07:27:25]

justinh:

Speedy2: crap, that's what I think of it

[07:27:28]

[R]:

i though it was atrocious

[07:27:38]

[R]:

it seemed to somewhat work

[07:27:45]

[R]:

but idindt play with it for very long

[07:28:01]

justinh:

if you like your recordings in one very big long list then sure

[07:29:03]

Speedy2:

What about the myth-plugin for XBMC that the one guy developed?

[07:29:16]

wagnerrp:

its of limited capacity

[07:29:40]

justinh:

let's put it this way, I wouldn't call XBMC a 'frontend'. Just a means of accessing mythtv recordings

[07:29:40]

wagnerrp:

and the xmbc guys are dropping it anyway, in support of a new interface

[07:29:45]

justinh:

that's fairer

[07:29:53]

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[07:30:07]

justinh:

there's only one myth frontend & that's mythfrontend :)

[07:30:29]

justinh:

wagnerrp: another interface rejig? jees

[07:30:56]

wagnerrp:

justinh: theyre adding a general purpose interface for DVRs

[07:31:16]

justinh:

oh yeah I remember seeing about that

[07:31:19]

wagnerrp:

such that you could write a backend for it to connect to any outside software you may want

[07:31:25]

teknopagan:

Yuk. I hate trying to pick out quiet cpu coolers for slim cases

[07:31:42]

justinh:

teknopagan: heh. pot luck there I'm afraid

[07:31:51]

justinh:

quiet == big slow rev fan

[07:31:52]

Dagmar:

silentpcreview.com man

[07:31:56]

teknopagan:

The case I picked is 3.9" tall

[07:32:11]

justinh:

that's not especially slim

[07:32:17]

wagnerrp:

thats pretty tall

[07:32:27]

Dagmar:

So buy a couple of the Nexus 1500rpm fans and call it a day

[07:32:50]

teknopagan:

this guy: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154062

[07:33:36]

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[07:33:56]

Dagmar:

Doh they're all sold out of the Nexus fans I bought last week

[07:34:03]

Dagmar:

So much for that

[07:34:23]

wagnerrp:

horizontal or vertical?

[07:35:20]

teknopagan:

?

[07:35:28]

wagnerrp:

how is the case standing

[07:35:49]

teknopagan:

Planning on having it horizontal

[07:36:23]

[R]:

please don't tell me thats a face plate for a floppy drive

[07:37:28]

teknopagan:

Most cases have an external 3.5, [R] – can be used for things like card readers or those little LCD screens

[07:37:30]

Dagmar:

That's actually for the cigarette lighter that fits in a 3.5" bay

[07:37:35]

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[07:37:47]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185097

[07:38:02]

[R]:

oh

[07:38:05]

[R]:

i want to get an lcd

[07:38:07]

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[07:38:12]

justinh:

teknopagan: with the PSU in that case you won't need to worry much about a quiet CPU fan :P

[07:38:18]

[R]:

but i dont have a space for it in my case

[07:38:25]

[R]:

i really do need something to show me he time though

[07:38:26]

Dagmar:

Sure you do

[07:38:31]

[R]:

thats the one thing i miss from my cable box

[07:38:41]

Dagmar:

Oh. Just buy an LCD clock with some double-stick tape on the back then

[07:38:44]

justinh:

Dagmar: well whether you can hear the CPU fan over the PSU fan....

[07:38:45]

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[07:38:46]

[R]:

lol

[07:39:06]

teknopagan:

oh, sweet, wagnerrp – that's just what I was looking for

[07:39:09]

Dagmar:

I'm still not regretting that Antec PVR case I bought

[07:39:10]

justinh:

[R]: there was this thing invented a while ago – it goes around your wrist

[07:39:13]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: that heatsink i linked to is going to be at least as quiet as that PSU fan

[07:39:18]

[R]:

justinh: i wear a watch

[07:39:23]

[R]:

but when i am looking at the tv

[07:39:28]

[R]:

i like to just have my eyes look down

[07:39:32]

justinh:

they have them to put on walls & all kinds now

[07:39:44]

justinh:

it's amazing what they can do!

[07:39:52]

teknopagan:

Reviews say that the PSU fan is actually pretty quiet

[07:39:53]

Dagmar:

Heck I've got one that syncs with some sort of atomic clock signal being sent out over the air

[07:39:56]

Dagmar:

Most of the time it works

[07:40:12]

Dagmar:

Something weird was going on with the transmitters in this area tho

[07:40:13]

[R]:

justinh: HAHA

[07:40:21]

Dagmar:

Last month it started jumping around by hours

[07:40:28]

wagnerrp:

well 'area' is a relative term

[07:40:28]

** Tanthrix takes the "hide the full size computer in a nearby closet" approach to cases **

[07:40:41]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Well, I talked to some guys at the airport near here on a hunch

[07:40:41]

Tanthrix:

No issues with noise, heat, or size.

[07:40:41]

teknopagan:

Dagmar, that's cause the atoms got confused

[07:40:49]

justinh:

teknopagan: reviews say.. yada yada. Are there any numbers quoted? FWIW even 25dBA might be noticable

[07:40:53]

wagnerrp:

they generally only have one every hundred miles or so

[07:40:59]

Dagmar:

They were saying something was screwing up with theirs too

[07:41:26]

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[07:41:34]

Speedy2:

Ft. Collins broadcasts at 60 kHz.

[07:41:40]

Speedy2:

That probably the signal.

[07:41:54]

wagnerrp:

no

[07:42:00]

wagnerrp:

thats 'a' signal

[07:42:21]

Speedy2:

NIST, WWVB.

[07:42:34]

Speedy2:

http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvb.htm

[07:42:37]

wagnerrp:

you have local stations every so often broadcasting DGPS corrections

[07:42:44]

wagnerrp:

you pull time signals off them

[07:42:50]

Dagmar:

Speedy2: I know what it is, I was being sarcastic

[07:43:02]

Dagmar:

It was pretty disturbing to look up at that clock and think I was already an hour late for work tho

[07:43:42]

justinh:

ntp ftw :)

[07:44:01]

wagnerrp:

justinh: got a NTP-connected wall clock lying around?

[07:44:23]

teknopagan:

You could totally make one out of an old laptop

[07:44:31]

teknopagan:

Ya know, just to do it

[07:44:41]

Dagmar:

justinh: NTP is the only reason I didn't go flying out the door at mach 12

[07:44:48]

teknopagan:

Maybe beef it up a notch and make it a picture frame too

[07:45:37]

justinh:

the price of embedded micros with ethernet now.. it's almost worthwhile

[07:47:03]

wagnerrp:

you know... ive actually been searching for something to do with my existing laptop if/when i buy a new one

[07:47:12]

wagnerrp:

it still works, and it has a damn nice screen

[07:47:26]

wagnerrp:

its just so underpowered, its not really good for much more than an X terminal

[07:47:33]

Dagmar:

Bulky DIY pitcher frame

[07:47:33]

teknopagan:

http://digitalpictureframe.50webs.com/

[07:47:50]

[R]:

we have one of those fancy rack mounted gps timesource things at my work

[07:47:52]

[R]:

its so damn annoying

[07:47:54]

wagnerrp:

i dont take pictures for which to use a picture frame

[07:47:57]

[R]:

tick... tick... tick... constantly

[07:48:01]

Speedy2:

[R]: Why is it annoying?

[07:48:05]

wagnerrp:

ticking?

[07:48:19]

[R]:

and they think they are being funny

[07:48:25]

[R]:

they point a transmitter at my computer where i sit

[07:48:25]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: So put screenshots on it in slideshow, or push out a customised weather forecast to it

[07:48:59]

teknopagan:

Exactly – since it's a laptop, you've got much more flexibility as to what you display on it

[07:49:36]

justinh:

[R]: just unplug it, remove it from the rack, walk down to the carpark with it & run over it with your car. if anybody asks, tell them you found it annoying

[07:49:47]

[R]:

lol

[07:50:01]

[R]:

i'm pretty sure its kinda expensive

[07:50:03]

[R]:

plus its not near my station

[07:50:06]

[R]:

so i dont really care that much

[07:50:06]

justinh:

but it'

[07:50:11]

justinh:

it's *annoying* :D

[07:50:11]

wagnerrp:

not that bad, couple hundred bucks

[07:50:21]

wagnerrp:

way over priced for what it does

[07:50:24]

[R]:

well i think its military grade

[07:50:27]

[R]:

so i'm sure its much more

[07:50:30]

wagnerrp:

doesnt matter

[07:50:44]

justinh:

those things are a few hundred quid

[07:50:53]

wagnerrp:

its a dinky GPS receiver, and a time server

[07:50:59]

justinh:

the tick can probably be disabled

[07:51:11]

[R]:

theres much more annoying things

[07:51:14]

[R]:

like the hbundreds of loud fans

[07:51:15]

wagnerrp:

military grade means its a thick steel case, and probably shielded

[07:51:16]

justinh:

someone likely left it enabled *to* annoy ;)

[07:52:17]

wagnerrp:

youre talking <<$100 of parts

[07:52:26]

justinh:

like all those ancient computers with that random musical note junk going on in the background :D

[07:52:34]

[R]:

the military pays absurd amou ts of money

[07:53:03]

Speedy2:

[R]: How many of these things do they use? Seems kind of antiquated to me.

[07:53:14]

[R]:

the thing i work on *requires* a hub... doesnt work with a switch... yes i know it makes no sense... but thats just the way it is... they pay a few hundred for hubs from Black Box

[07:53:21]

wagnerrp:

Speedy2: time servers antiquated?

[07:53:25]

Speedy2:

No

[07:53:36]

Speedy2:

I meant a dedicated device when ntp.org is available.

[07:53:52]

Speedy2:

I guess if you're in a facility that doesn't have Internet access.

[07:53:57]

wagnerrp:

you want to rely on a free service?

[07:54:08]

wagnerrp:

thats not how you function as a business

[07:54:13]

Speedy2:

Does "the Internet" rely on the many NTP servers?

[07:54:20]

Speedy2:

Besides

[07:54:25]

Speedy2:

GPS is a free service too :)

[07:54:28]

Speedy2:

"free"

[07:54:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah... backed by the guarantee of hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money

[07:54:49]

[R]:

we rely on an RF signal coming from this gps receiver

[07:54:59]

[R]:

not the time itself

[07:55:18]

ip_goat_rodeo:

radio clock receivers that are supported in ntpd are cheap

[07:55:27]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I think I spent about USD25 for mine

[07:55:28]

[R]:

again... this is military

[07:55:34]

justinh:

[R]: so what did y'all do last time GPS was turned off? ;-)

[07:55:45]

[R]:

justinh: i dont know... what does anyone in the military do when it is

[07:55:46]

wagnerrp:

yeah, any NMEA compatible GPS receiver will function as a clock source for ntpd

[07:55:57]

Speedy2:

wagnerrp: NTP servers (stratum 1) are GPS backed anyway

[07:56:02]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I mean non-GPS ones, WWV/JJY/etc.

[07:56:10]

wagnerrp:

Speedy2: correct, and not under your control

[07:56:11]

[R]:

justinh: we dont depend on it at my job... we just need to function with it

[07:56:21]

justinh:

where I worked at the time made tracker devices for cars.. we could make em but just not test them :-(

[07:56:35]

justinh:

we had people up on the roof checking the aerial & everything lol

[07:56:38]

wagnerrp:

if i need accurate time, im not going to rely on someone else's servers that im not paying to use

[07:56:46]

Speedy2:

wagnerrp: So how do YOU do it?

[07:56:49]

ip_goat_rodeo:

the radio clocks don't give sub-second accuracy though

[07:57:07]

wagnerrp:

Speedy2: i use ntp.org pools, but im not running a business either

[07:58:47]

wagnerrp:

im saying if i were running something that require accurate time

[07:58:55]

wagnerrp:

for instance RSA key generators for VPN clients

[07:59:12]

wagnerrp:

or some credit card transaction server

[07:59:19]

wagnerrp:

or even just company servers

[07:59:41]

wagnerrp:

i would have a time reference, rather than relying on someone elses servers being accurate and proper

[07:59:48]

teknopagan:

OK, looks like I can build decent frontends for ~$300 each

[08:00:09]

wagnerrp:

teknopagan: used to be less, but ddr2 is going up, and ddr3 hasnt yet come down

[08:00:36]

wagnerrp:

ddr2 prices are about double their low mark

[08:00:42]

[R]:

which is absurd

[08:00:42]

ip_goat_rodeo:

none of those things truly require subsecond accuracy (though they do require reliability)

[08:00:44]

[R]:

is it artificial

[08:00:48]

[R]:

or is there some kind of explanation?

[08:00:54]

teknopagan:

yep – RAM is gonna run me about $50

[08:01:11]

teknopagan:

for 2GB of DDR2–1066

[08:01:14]

Speedy2:

RAM pricing is very volatile, for no good reason.

[08:01:51]

ip_goat_rodeo:

not really

[08:02:26]

ip_goat_rodeo:

big companies get stability, buying bulk ram at a computer store is like buying oil on the spot market.

[08:04:23]

[R]:

spot?

[08:04:44]

ip_goat_rodeo:

if you want to see someone with way too much free time, look at http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/?sakharov/research/graph.html

[08:04:57]

ip_goat_rodeo:

japanese street price for ram tracked back like 10 years

[08:05:13]

[R]:

i get a 404

[08:05:25]

ip_goat_rodeo:

?sakharov

[08:05:31]

ip_goat_rodeo:

er, tilde before that

[08:05:44]

[R]:

~?s

[08:05:44]

ip_goat_rodeo:

utf8 is mangling it

[08:05:46]

[R]:

like that?

[08:05:49]

[R]:

or isntead of the ?

[08:06:10]

ip_goat_rodeo:

retype the character before the sakharov with a tilde

[08:06:37]

[R]:

crazy graphs

[08:07:00]

ip_goat_rodeo:

the guy has been going to akihabara for over 10 years recording prices of ram, hdd, cpus every weekend.

[08:08:06]

Speedy2:

wow.

[08:09:19]

ip_goat_rodeo:

the 12 year cost/gig graph for hdd is cute

[08:10:57]

teknopagan:

especially considering that's not a linear graph

[08:11:14]

ip_goat_rodeo:

log graph yeah

[08:11:39]

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[08:12:34]

ip_goat_rodeo:

I don't bother remembering the URL for it, but 'sakharov akihabara' on google always gets it with feeling lucky button

[08:12:50]

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[08:13:22]

teknopagan:

looks like I'm sitting at about $600 for a 1TB backend with two tuners

[08:13:35]

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[08:14:02]

[R]:

that seems a bit pricy

[08:14:06]

[R]:

are they gold plated tuners?

[08:14:21]

wagnerrp:

no, thats probably about right

[08:14:30]

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[08:14:38]

wagnerrp:

full system, plus tuners, drives

[08:15:32]

teknopagan:

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/WishListMa . . . FromUrl=MSWL

[08:15:48]

teknopagan:

bah

[08:16:01]

teknopagan:

nevermind that link

[08:16:19]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i cant find the 12-yr charts

[08:16:33]

sid3windr:

"1GB"

[08:16:35]

teknopagan:

https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWis . . . ?ID=17388867

[08:16:40]

sid3windr:

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~sakharov/research/hddup1.png

[08:17:00]

teknopagan:

That should work – that's the $600 backend

[08:17:24]

[R]:

teknopagan: nope, no work

[08:17:27]

sid3windr:

still gotta have a login

[08:17:30]

teknopagan:

dammit

[08:17:39]

[R]:

you need to do "public" wish list

[08:19:41]

teknopagan:

Did – it's being stupid

[08:20:20]

[R]:

whats the name?

[08:20:39]

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[08:20:39]

teknopagan:

HD Backend

[08:20:48]

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[08:20:53]

teknopagan:

not coming up in the search function either

[08:21:55]

teknopagan:

Anyway, I'm done for the night – headed up to bed. Night, folks

[08:22:05]

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[08:25:33]

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[08:26:58]

wagnerrp:

it never ceases to amaze

[08:27:07]

wagnerrp:

every time i pull up my backend logs to start watching them

[08:27:19]

wagnerrp:

mythfilldatabase decides its a good time to run

[08:28:32]

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[08:29:38]

[R]:

lol

[08:29:56]

wagnerrp:

seriously

[08:30:04]

wagnerrp:

im trying to debug some user job

[08:30:05]

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[08:30:07]

wagnerrp:

start watching it

[08:30:10]

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[08:30:19]

wagnerrp:

and look! MFD fills it with a bunch of garbage

[08:31:16]

[R]:

my mythfill logs to its own file

[08:32:02]

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[08:32:02]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuartm

[08:32:07]

wagnerrp:

you run it manually?

[08:32:11]

[R]:

no

[08:32:13]

[R]:

from the backend

[08:32:55]

[R]:

i dont know how it works though

[08:34:25]

wagnerrp:

oh FANTASTIC!

[08:34:32]

wagnerrp:

i cant actually debug it

[08:34:46]

wagnerrp:

the reason its failing is because the grabber is failing

[08:34:55]

wagnerrp:

the grabber is failing because ttvdb is down

[08:35:05]

[R]:

well so its a nonissue

[08:36:51]

justinh:

they're gonna have to get a load more reliable for me to start using that in anger

[08:37:11]

oobe:

anyone else getting defunct mythfrontend process each time its launched

[08:37:19]

justinh:

needs more people to throw money at them I think

[08:37:42]

oobe:

i.e i get 3 defunct ones in background while a real one runs

[08:37:56]

justinh:

oobe: not just silly wrapper scripts?

[08:38:11]

[R]:

i see 1 real process

[08:38:14]

oobe:

no i dont use wrappers for mythfrontend

[08:38:15]

[R]:

and 6 that claim to be "defunct"

[08:38:27]

[R]:

they go away when the frontend ends though

[08:38:29]

[R]:

i just ignore it

[08:38:34]

oobe:

i found a thread on it but only noticed it recently

[08:38:55]

oobe:

http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7135

[08:39:40]

justinh:

unless it's actually causing problems I wouldn't worry about it

[08:39:53]

justinh:

like all the 'warnings' spat out into logs

[08:40:05]

[R]:

this old skool guy i work with

[08:40:07]

[R]:

always yells at me

[08:40:14]

[R]:

when i tell him "oh, you can ignore that error/warning"

[08:40:34]

justinh:

sounds like he needs a smack in the face with a shovel

[08:40:39]

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[08:40:45]

[R]:

lol

[08:40:50]

justinh:

and a quick burial

[08:41:02]

[R]:

i'm like "oh, it always says that... we just ignore it"

[08:41:27]

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[08:41:48]

justinh:

it depends doesn't it? I mean it's not like mythtv is a nuclear power station & you're plugging the radiation alarm

[08:42:10]

[R]:

haha

[08:42:34]

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[08:42:39]

justinh:

hardy har. That's ironic. the first recording of the new mythtvcast podcast failed so they had to do it again

[08:43:24]

[R]:

so whats the deal with arclight

[08:43:25]

justinh:

'delete & re-record' :D

[08:43:37]

[R]:

i thougth the fonts were non distributable

[08:43:38]

justinh:

whaddya mean?

[08:43:47]

[R]:

it was checked in with a notice that says the fonts ARE distributable

[08:43:57]

justinh:

people can change their mind

[08:44:08]

[R]:

but i thought it was a 3rd party font with a license

[08:44:10]

justinh:

.. and opt to use different fonts

[08:44:14]

wagnerrp:

at the time, he was

[08:44:15]

justinh:

it was, originally.

[08:44:20]

[R]:

oh, so its a diff font?

[08:44:21]

wagnerrp:

he found different ones that were acceptable

[08:44:28]

[R]:

that explains it

[08:44:59]

justinh:

I'm slightly disappointed actually. Be nice to see somebody stick to hard-core lines for once. Something I could never do ;)

[08:46:18]

oobe:

im about to test a patch that fixes it

[08:46:32]

justinh:

there's an infinitesimally fine line between being hard-core & cutting off your nose to spite your face though

[08:47:50]

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[08:51:21]

justinh:

oh great. add -mythtvusersmail to any twitter search on 'mythtv' & it gives 0 results :-( frickin spamming bots

[08:51:37]

justinh:

we don't *need* bloody tweets about users mailing list time wasters

[08:54:37]

oobe:

the patch doesnt work :(

[08:54:51]

oobe:

instead of 3 defunct processes it ends up with only 2

[08:55:06]

justinh:

I can't see how that's a big problem

[08:55:21]

justinh:

does mythfrontend seem to *work* ok? If so, no problem

[08:59:11]

justinh:

heh still people totally missing the point about the 'DRM' of freeview HD

[08:59:54]

justinh:

1. It's not actually DRM. 2. It won't affect us 3. DVB-T2 tuner cards don't even exist yet, nor is there even the faintest whiff of one

[09:01:22]

oobe:

justinh, i guess its not a big problem

[09:01:34]

oobe:

but its reported and i wanted to test the patch

[09:01:49]

oobe:

i found another one that should work with an explanation about the other

[09:03:51]

justinh:

gah. why wasn't #7336 just closed, people trouted & we continue to progress?

[09:06:26]

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[09:21:08]

jst_home:

anyone here successfully using mythweb on a Fedora Core 12 server?

[09:21:34]

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[09:58:51]

oobe:

jst_home, the readme acompanying mythweb is good for any distro

[10:02:00]

jst_home:

oobe: I've successfully installed it a couple of times already, but never on fc12, and something appears to be different here...

[10:02:20]

jst_home:

oobe: and the README doesn't seem to contain anything specific to fc12

[10:12:59]

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[10:36:54]

stuartm:

my next theme will be non-GPL and cost $2/Â£1.40

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[10:42:43]

oobe:

jst_home, thats cause it does need to be distro specific

[10:43:23]

oobe:

jst_home, all you need to do is learn a little about fc12 where it stores its http apache configurations

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[12:10:54]

JoshBorke:

jst_home: there is no such thing as Fedora Core 12, it is possible to use mythweb in fedora 12 however

[12:11:05]

JoshBorke:

jst_home: what problems are you having?

[12:13:13]

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[13:38:09]

k2s:

are there bigger cases where it is possible to use mini-itx mainboards ?

[13:40:02]

ivor:

k2s: you mean can you put a mini-itx in a large case?

[13:40:49]

ivor:

k2s: if so then yes, the mounting points and backplane are in the same place as a larger case.

[13:41:03]

k2s:

ivor: yes that is my question, I want to use Zotac ION N330, but place it into case which will be bigger then mini-itx case

[13:41:57]

k2s:

and is it possible to extend PCI slots on ION N330 ? I need more then one tuner card

[13:44:44]

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[13:47:55]

XLV:

k2s, http://www.logicsupply.com/products/201_t1032

[13:48:40]

XLV:

but i'd get something faster than atom for multiple tuners and a larger case

[13:48:53]

XLV:

eg amd ee cpu series

[13:48:59]

XLV:

and some 785g igp

[13:49:26]

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[13:49:27]

XLV:

if you absolutely want vdpau get a cheap nvidia 8xxx low profile gpu card

[13:50:09]

XLV:

btw i have read that many have managed h264/vc1 L4.1 gpu acceleration in linux with ati using mplayer and vaapi

[13:50:10]

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[13:50:46]

k2s:

XLV: I was told that recording from SAT tuner is not very CPU intensive. are you sure I need a better CPU for recording ? of course I would like to record and watch at same time

[13:51:00]

XLV:

no, its not cpu intensive

[13:51:14]

XLV:

its a mpeg2 or 4 stream, written as is to hdd

[13:51:15]

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[13:51:28]

XLV:

and the playback isnt cpu intensive either, with ion

[13:53:14]

XLV:

but prices are similar

[13:53:43]

patdk-wk:

xlv, heh, a gt220 is going be much better than a 8xxx video card

[13:53:56]

XLV:

amd x2 ee ~ 70$, 785g mb ~60–70$, a low profile nvidia 8xxx 30$

[13:54:04]

XLV:

patdk-wk, yeah, thats a new option

[13:54:07]

patdk-wk:

gt220 is like $45

[13:54:09]

k2s:

so why do you suggest something faster then ION ? my main target is a quite HTPC and it semas that ion will work without fan on CPU if i put a large fan into the case ... but I am newbie

[13:54:23]

XLV:

patdk-wk, fanless? low profile?

[13:54:29]

patdk-wk:

low profile

[13:54:35]

patdk-wk:

I didn't get fanless, but they exist

[13:54:47]

XLV:

k2s, ion should do it, but i just present other combinations too

[13:54:56]

patdk-wk:

fanless normally needs two slots, and I don't have room to waste a slot :)

[13:55:13]

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[13:55:22]

XLV:

yeah, gt 220 is better, as it supports lpcm 7.1 too, and it doesnt need spdif cable

[13:55:24]

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[13:55:34]

patdk-wk:

mine doesn't :(

[13:55:43]

patdk-wk:

can't get any audio drivers for the onboard audio chip

[13:57:03]

patdk-wk:

gt210, low profile, fanless $45

[13:57:40]

GreyFoxx:

Some nice commits coming in lately

[13:57:49]

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[13:57:55]

GreyFoxx:

seeking patches, arclight, new bindings... lots of yummy goodness

[13:58:14]

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[13:58:23]

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[13:58:32]

patdk-wk:

hmm, $35 after rebate

[13:58:33]

patdk-wk:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127454

[13:58:35]

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[13:59:20]

XLV:

k2s, with athlon x2 ee, with a large heatpipe tower cooler, eg that thermalright one that takes 9cm fan, i bet it can cool that cpu without any fan on, and its small enough to fit in a micro-atx htpc case

[13:59:30]

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[13:59:35]

XLV:

k2s, fanless gpu, get an mb with passive cooling

[13:59:58]

XLV:

k2s, all that should be able to be cooled by one intake fan and the psu fan

[14:00:27]

patdk-wk:

just shove the largest fan, with lowest rpm you can :)

[14:00:39]

patdk-wk:

normally <1000rpm is quiet

[14:00:59]

XLV:

patdk-wk, yeah, but usually 12cm and large fans dont fit in micro-atx htpc cases

[14:01:15]

patdk-wk:

I know :(

[14:01:17]

patdk-wk:

but if you can :)

[14:01:19]

XLV:

they use at best 8 or 9cm fans

[14:02:15]

patdk-wk:

like if you go harddriveless

[14:02:21]

patdk-wk:

you can normally shove a large fan in the top

[14:03:13]

patdk-wk:

I personally have gone the hdmi extender route, and have the normal computer in the basement

[14:03:38]

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[14:03:59]

k2s:

hmmm, this is really many decission to take, that is why it is so funny :-)

[14:05:02]

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[14:05:17]

XLV:

or you can have two pcs

[14:05:26]

XLV:

one htpc ion that is the front end

[14:05:44]

XLV:

and another tucked away out of site and where noise doesnt annoy, with all the tuners

[14:06:13]

XLV:

that one can be inside a normal sized case, so it can have lots of tuners

[14:06:44]

XLV:

and it doesnt have to be a fast pc, or it can also do other functions, eg file server/downloader etc

[14:06:59]

k2s:

I have NAS QNAP-409, I will use that for storage. I dont want to have hdd in my HTPC, if necessery then small ssd. But my HTPC has to do grabbing, because cables are already next to TV and it would be difficult to move them to the room where NAS makes its sounds

[14:07:44]

patdk-wk:

heh, you don't need a harddrive at all

[14:07:49]

patdk-wk:

I run all my frontends diskless

[14:07:59]

XLV:

yeah, it can network boot

[14:08:05]

patdk-wk:

getting annoyed with ltsp though, so thinking of doing iscsi diskless boots

[14:08:06]

XLV:

and write all recordings to NAS

[14:09:04]

XLV:

or just have a ide or sata to cf adapter and 1GB or so cf card or just a usb stick just with kernel image to boot, then it reads its fs from network

[14:09:38]

XLV:

since you already have layed out network connecting those two points

[14:09:43]

patdk-wk:

I would only do that if you don't support pxe

[14:10:00]

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[14:10:40]

XLV:

anyhow, i suppose an ion is a decent solution, since it doesnt need extra cost for fanless coolers

[14:10:48]

XLV:

get that pci extender i linked

[14:10:58]

XLV:

and if you want even more tuners you can get usb ones

[14:11:05]

XLV:

or network ones like hdhomerun

[14:13:01]

k2s:

hdhomerun seams good, but I need SAT tuners and that is another problem I need to solve. i need to decode with 2 cards (CI). so i am not even sure if it will be possible to have more then one SAT card

[14:13:23]

k2s:

best would be if the CI modules could be shared

[14:13:42]

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[14:14:36]

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[14:15:40]

XLV:

you can use two dbv-s2 with ci known to be compatible like the skystar 2hd

[14:15:46]

XLV:

these are pci

[14:15:52]

XLV:

and get usb tuners for the rest

[14:16:14]

XLV:

eg hauppauge dvb-t or atsc ones usb thats also known to work

[14:16:40]

XLV:

there are also usb analog tuners with hardware mpeg2 encoding that are also compatible, certain hauppauge models again

[14:17:47]

k2s:

i found this http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pcie-4-x-pci-exp . . . tx-kit.html, but not sure what case I would need to put everything togethet

[14:17:57]

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[14:18:09]

k2s:

XLV: great information i am geting from you, thank you a lot

[14:18:29]

XLV:

thats a pci-e 4x to pci external box

[14:18:33]

XLV:

you cant use that

[14:18:44]

XLV:

ion mbs usually got one pci slot, or one pci-e 1x

[14:19:00]

XLV:

get that two pci from one pci extender i linked

[14:19:13]

XLV:

k2s, http://www.logicsupply.com/products/201_t1032

[14:19:24]

XLV:

connect the two 2HD there

[14:19:56]

XLV:

the CIs are on different slots that attach to slot brackets connected with card with a ribbon cable

[14:20:06]

k2s:

i saw that, but that would be place for one skystar 2hd and 1x skystar CI ... i need 2x CI

[14:20:30]

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[14:20:31]

XLV:

no, the ci card doesnt need to be connected to pci slot

[14:20:33]

k2s:

XLV: so the CI are attached directly to the card ?

[14:20:36]

XLV:

it just attached to bracket

[14:20:37]

k2s:

great

[14:20:39]

XLV:

yeah

[14:21:00]

XLV:

and get usb for the rest

[14:21:22]

XLV:

you can even be creative and use double sided tape to install the usb devices inside the case

[14:21:38]

XLV:

so you dont have a mess of cables

[14:21:53]

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[14:22:26]

k2s:

XLV: right that is why I want to put mini-itx into bigger case ... could you suggest a case ?

[14:22:54]

XLV:

depends.. lots of micro atx htpc cases, full or half height

[14:23:10]

XLV:

or you can even get a micro atx tower or cube case, depends what you want

[14:23:48]

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[14:26:42]

k2s:

I dont like cube, I would be happy with size of http://www.amazon.com/KiSS-DP-558-Networkable . . . /B0001YIZD4, that is what i want to replace

[14:30:01]

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[14:35:03]

XLV:

thats like half height or a bit taller

[14:35:25]

XLV:

the skystar hd are full height pci card

[14:35:48]

XLV:

so you'd need to mount the riser vertically vs the mb

[14:36:04]

XLV:

so the two skystar are mounted horizontally vs the mb

[14:36:27]

XLV:

but then in a half height case you wont have brackets left to mount the CIs

[14:36:52]

XLV:

you can though use some doube sided tape to glue them on someplace else

[14:37:05]

k2s:

would this mount it horizontally ? http://www.markit.eu/uk/en/pci-riser-card-dc7 . . . v2p534995c12

[14:37:20]

XLV:

yeah

[14:37:59]

k2s:

the problem with http://www.logicsupply.com/products/201_t1032 is that they would not deliver to my country

[14:38:17]

XLV:

yeah, you dont need that one if you need a half height case

[14:38:33]

XLV:

i linked it if you wanted a larger case

[14:38:47]

XLV:

so you can have the two pci slots in the same level as mb

[14:38:56]

XLV:

i have the silverstone lc20

[14:39:11]

XLV:

its a full atx case, larger than the ones you have linked so far

[14:39:27]

XLV:

but it will certainly house anything you need, and have room to spare

[14:40:01]

k2s:

does it have LCD ?

[14:40:09]

XLV:

it has c2d @ 2.5GHz, full atx mb, one hdd and two tuners

[14:40:16]

XLV:

yeah, theres a model with lcd

[14:40:29]

XLV:

though most of those small lcd are useless

[14:40:39]

XLV:

mine doesnt

[14:40:59]

k2s:

I am going to measure my table :-)

[14:43:47]

XLV:

also the skystar hd and most dvb-s/s2 tuners get hot, dont know if having two of them so close to each other in a half height case will work so good

[14:44:03]

XLV:

maybe you need to use some zipties to add a fan to cool the tuners

[14:44:18]

XLV:

with larger atx mbs you can space them apart

[14:46:26]

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[15:38:13]

LonEagle:

in myth .22, where'd the channel.subchannel notation format go?

[15:38:24]

LonEagle:

it seems to want to do them like 2_2, and I prefer them as 2.2

[15:42:03]

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loki_666:

hi

[15:54:08]

loki_666:

i crated a lossless transcoding profile, but id doesnt shows up

[15:54:14]

loki_666:

any idea?

[16:02:03]

clever:

can DVI perform HDCP?

[16:03:10]

devinheitmueller:

clever: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdcp

[16:03:17]

devinheitmueller:

"For DVI interfaces, HDCP is optional"

[16:03:31]

clever:

devinheitmueller: ah, so it is posible

[16:04:13]

clever:

my STB has dvi out, so i was thinking that maybe it couldnt encrypt

[16:04:18]

devinheitmueller:

I don't think any products actually do it.

[16:04:34]

devinheitmueller:

.... since it would break compatibility with pretty much every display out there.

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[17:52:33]

jheizer:

Hey all

[17:52:48]

jheizer:

I am looking for some help on a settings I am sure I am overlooking some where stupid

[17:53:08]

jheizer:

Recordings menu preview images are not showing up on one frontend

[17:53:18]

jheizer:

work on 2 others and mythweb

[17:53:36]

jheizer:

have set Generate images remotely and from bookmark if possible

[17:54:13]

jheizer:

Is there a setting to enable them some where that i am missing?

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[18:04:36]

oobe:

jheizer, should be working

[18:07:14]

jheizer:

yeah what I kept thinking, I am not new to myth at all and have never had this problem before

[18:07:26]

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[18:07:35]

jheizer:

worked before I redid this frontend (now pxe booting it)

[18:08:04]

jheizer:

and started from scratch with its settings

[18:08:31]

oobe:

maybe there is no where for the diskless install to make an image cache

[18:08:51]

oobe:

but thats beyong my scope as i have never setup a diskless fe

[18:09:05]

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[18:09:22]

jheizer:

my first one here since the CF card the machine use to run on stopped working

[18:09:52]

jheizer:

I do have the myth directories cifs mounted for access to videos

[18:10:01]

jheizer:

meta data for videos work

[18:10:21]

oobe:

have you looked at the FE logs

[18:11:01]

sphery:

Dagmar: re: the channel_icons.pl script, it does actually submit choices back to services.mythtv.org . Once submitted, they have to be verified by one of a couple of devs before they'll affect the default choice for other users.

[18:12:04]

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[18:12:17]

sphery:

jheizer: that's usually a problem with storage groups configuration or file system permissions

[18:13:01]

jheizer:

FE log at default level has nothing, backend logs I see it generating them

[18:13:41]

sphery:

verify permissions on $HOME/.mythtv directory, too

[18:13:55]

Dagmar:

sphery: I'm not certain that system is working all that well after the number of icons it had no clue about

[18:14:59]

Dagmar:

Large network stuff, like Discovery HD

[18:15:24]

sphery:

yeah, it doesn't get approved often...

[18:15:39]

sphery:

and the ones who do approve it really want to rewrite/rework the whole thing

[18:15:53]

Dagmar:

...but then I *wasn't* using the perl script, so unless the built-in icon searcher is calling it externally...

[18:15:59]

jheizer:

sphery: that was it, .mythtv was owned by root vs local user

[18:16:01]

jheizer:

working now

[18:16:18]

jheizer:

oobe: you got it as well

[18:16:22]

sphery:

I really don't know how the mythtv-setup one works.

[18:16:24]

jheizer:

thanks for the help

[18:16:27]

sphery:

jheizer: great... enjoy

[18:16:34]

Dagmar:

sphery: I suspect the answer is "badly"

[18:16:39]

oobe:

cool nice one

[18:16:46]

sphery:

heh, yeah, that one I'll agree with

[18:16:57]

sphery:

it's in dire need of some rewrite

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[18:23:06]

Hiisty:

does someone know what does "listingsource" means in program table?

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[18:35:43]

JoshBorke:

Hiisty: could it be the data source used to retrieve the program information? like schedules direct in the US?

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[18:37:43]

sphery:

Hiisty: mythtv-setup knows... :)

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[19:02:57]

Hiisty:

thanks, but i was too quick, i removed all channels and programs, and started from scratch, now it seems to work

[19:03:05]

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[19:03:06]

Hiisty:

i hope :)

[19:03:13]

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[19:08:31]

sphery:

Hiisty: Actually the Delete all video sources approach (which removes all channels and programs and video sources) is often the best approach for fixing broken configuration.

[19:08:52]

sphery:

Thus my quoting http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 /far/ too often :)

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[19:13:37]

Dagmar:

sphery: You're in the US, aren't you

[19:13:58]

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[19:19:31]

bonelifer:

to VSFTPD or to ProFTP. Any pros of one or cons of the other?

[19:19:43]

wagnerrp:

one uses SSL

[19:20:19]

wagnerrp:

although i dont know if theres really much use for FTPs anymore

[19:20:44]

bonelifer:

local network use only

[19:20:46]

bonelifer:

here

[19:21:01]

wagnerrp:

seems easier to toss things on a network share

[19:24:30]

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[19:25:12]

bonelifer:

on a mixed machine, 4GB or 8GB.

[19:28:30]

wagnerrp:

shared video memory?

[19:29:14]

Dagmar:

huh?

[19:29:31]

Dagmar:

If it's a local network, use scp

[19:29:50]

wagnerrp:

is it on a machine with embedded graphics... would you need to allocate shared memory

[19:30:08]

bonelifer:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131406 Integrated ATI Radeon HD 4200 GPU

[19:30:08]

bonelifer:

SidePort Memory – onboard 128MB DDR3 1333 memory

[19:30:16]

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[19:30:53]

wagnerrp:

if you have integrated graphics, i would go for 2GB

[19:30:58]

wagnerrp:

if not, 1GB is generally sufficient

[19:31:30]

wagnerrp:

the only time ive had problems with 1GB of memory on a myth machine is compiling

[19:31:41]

wagnerrp:

and thats only with '-j' larger than one

[19:32:09]

bonelifer:

So the 4GB I have came as a combo should cover MythTV and any misc stuff I might run background

[19:33:12]

wagnerrp:

assuming youre not planning on running a bunch of VMs for some unknown reason, yes

[19:33:57]

bonelifer:

No VM on this machine. If I run a VM, I do it in VirtualBox on my XP machine

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[19:48:08]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: So am I right to say that even after the new bindings are installed, I should still have all the old bindings there? (I do)

[19:54:15]

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[19:58:33]

messerting:

Hi, I just plugged my Terratec IR remote into the card, and found that it almost works; arrow keys are recognized by mythtv. But where is the remote configured? I don't have lirc running atm.

[19:59:06]

messerting:

It is a Mantis device, located at /sys/devices/virtual/input/input9/

[19:59:16]

messerting:

is this handled directly by mythtv?

[19:59:24]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i havent figured out how to make the installer remove those files

[19:59:27]

wagnerrp:

however they are inert

[19:59:34]

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[19:59:35]

wagnerrp:

they dont get pulled in on an import

[19:59:46]

iamlindoro:

works for me

[20:07:00]

sid3windr:

messerting: afaik myth only supports lirc, perhaps your remote is sending out your arrow keys as regular HID keypresses?

[20:07:03]

Dagmar:

messerting: Sounds like LInux thinks it's a keyboard

[20:07:18]

Dagmar:

Those don't currently work any better than a keyboard

[20:07:25]

messerting:

hm, yep, that might be

[20:07:33]

wagnerrp:

along those lines, there has been some discussion about having myth automatically and properly recognize HID remotes

[20:07:34]

** J-e-f-f-A wonders how "Todd" is running MythTV without a Master Backend... **

[20:07:41]

messerting:

so – I need to hack some X input stuff...?

[20:07:49]

wagnerrp:

how no one has actually submitted anything to that effect

[20:07:59]

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[20:08:01]

wagnerrp:

todd?

[20:08:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: a -dev message... ;-)

[20:08:34]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A: You don't need a master backend, just a DB-- That's not saying the experience will be enjoyable, but the frontend *will* run

[20:08:48]

wagnerrp:

but it will complain on every run

[20:08:52]

iamlindoro:

and any time it would normally talk to the backend, it will complain

[20:08:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

Strange...

[20:08:56]

wagnerrp:

and there are some functions that will outright refuse to work

[20:09:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

So only the Plugins will work.

[20:09:25]

iamlindoro:

pretty much

[20:09:26]

wagnerrp:

well mythvideo will work much less so now

[20:10:02]

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[20:15:32]

rowinggolfer:

question – I'm in the UK using freeview. to get my 4 DVB-T tuner cards working, I had to specify 2 different eit sources, one for cards1 and 2, the other for cards 3 and 4. All inputs work. Scheduling is grabbed from eit1. Cards 3 and 4 get overlooked when recording conflicts arise though. Am i missing something? I note I have duplicate channels in the channel log.

[20:15:32]

lotia:

any uk users on? people doing HD over freesat in particular?

[20:16:10]

rowinggolfer:

lotia – I haven't linked with freesat at all.

[20:16:17]

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[20:16:34]

lotia:

rowinggolfer: so you're not doing HD i'm presuming

[20:16:46]

rowinggolfer:

lotia, no.

[20:17:23]

ivor:

rowinggolfer: why did you need to specify multiple eit sources?

[20:17:49]

rowinggolfer:

ivor, it seemed to be the only way the hauppage card would lock.

[20:17:59]

rowinggolfer:

makes no sense to me either.

[20:18:01]

ivor:

strange.

[20:18:10]

lotia:

so, the oscom okay to DRM OTA TV shouldn't affect you?

[20:18:23]

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[20:18:27]

j-rod:

so for only $5/mo more, is a 5x increase in upload bandwidth worth it? I'm going to say yes...

[20:18:50]

** j-rod can almost stream high def recordings from home to the office now... :) **

[20:18:55]

rowinggolfer:

lotia, 1st I've heard of that TBH.

[20:18:59]

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[20:19:07]

sid3windr:

how much upstream do you get then j-rod ?

[20:19:13]

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[20:19:13]

j-rod:

25Mbps

[20:19:23]

wagnerrp:

not bad

[20:19:36]

j-rod:

with a matching 25 down

[20:20:05]

rowinggolfer:

ivor – in theory I should only need 1 eit source, correct?

[20:22:48]

ivor:

rowinggolfer: should do

[20:23:55]

devinheitmueller:

j-rod: I assume you mean when they don't cut the fiber in your neighborhood, right?

[20:24:09]

iamlindoro:

lotia: As I understand it, DRM is not involved, and it's still up for discussion anyway

[20:24:11]

j-rod:

heh, yeah, that helps... :)

[20:24:14]

sid3windr:

woa there

[20:24:16]

sid3windr:

25M up :/

[20:24:18]

rowinggolfer:

ivor thanks for the info. I swear it seems the only way all 4 cards get a lock though.

[20:24:27]

iamlindoro:

lotia: The proposal is to compress the EIT information, *not* to encrypt the content

[20:24:34]

iamlindoro:

and that's compress the EIT, not encrypt it

[20:24:37]

j-rod:

also... I'm going to go out on a limb here...

[20:24:52]

iamlindoro:

see the mailing list for some informed discussion on the topic, particularly the posts by Stuart Morgan

[20:25:04]

j-rod:

video decoded by the crystalhd is superior to vdpau-decoded video

[20:25:22]

j-rod:

not by a huge amount, but its better

[20:25:29]

devinheitmueller:

nice.

[20:25:33]

j-rod:

this is partially according to my wife

[20:25:41]

Dagmar:

That'll be easy enough to prove/disprove

[20:25:44]

devinheitmueller:

did you do a blind taste test?

[20:25:51]

lotia:

+iamlindoro: thanks doing so now. just wondering if it will hamper use of mythtv in the uk. may be moving a machine from USA to uk and need to figure out what my options for HD are over there.

[20:26:04]

j-rod:

she commented on how good some 1080p h.264 stuff was looking playing back on my mac mini

[20:26:20]

j-rod:

wondered why it hadn't ever looked that good before

[20:26:22]

iamlindoro:

lotia: As I understand it, this step alone would not prevent using Myth with any of the UK broadcasts

[20:26:47]

iamlindoro:

lotia: *might* necessitate using the radio times listings rather than EIT, but they're better anyway (and still free)

[20:26:59]

Dagmar:

j-rod: One of the two has a better screen, I suspect

[20:27:30]

j-rod:

yes, the one hooked up to the ion is the better screen

[20:27:57]

j-rod:

(also, nb: I'll have a crystalhd card in my ion box Real Soon Now too)

[20:28:16]

j-rod:

(then I can do true apples to apples)

[20:28:23]

lotia:

iamlindoro: and radio times listings are accessed using xmltv?

[20:28:31]

iamlindoro:

lotia: right

[20:30:01]

lotia:

iamlindoro: also, currently no way to legally record SKY due to encryption issues?

[20:30:04]

stuartm:

lotia: it remains to be seen how it plays out, but what is currently proposed is of no concern to mythtv users – FTA HD in the UK is slim on the ground, currently just one half-time channel and one with intermittent content , but if you are prepared to pay and use something like the HDPVR then you have plenty of choice, especially with Sky

[20:30:30]

iamlindoro:

lotia: As I understand it, that's correct as far as a direct DVB-S connection goes (though an HD-PVR would do the trick)

[20:31:18]

lotia:

but there would likely be some sort of ir magic involved for channel changing etc.

[20:31:41]

devinheitmueller:

hey, does anyone have any feeling about the quality of the "gnome-lirc-properties" app in terms of quality?

[20:32:20]

iamlindoro:

lotia: right, though that's not altogether different than using it with any satellite provider in the US

[20:32:41]

** lotia is spoiled by nice OTA HD setup at present **

[20:33:11]

** lotia is also disappointed by BBC attempt to obfuscate listings **

[20:33:37]

iamlindoro:

read the mailing list, it seems a lot more like an attempt to appease content providers without impacting the openness in any tangible way

[20:33:42]

Dagmar:

Compression is not obfuscation

[20:33:51]

Dagmar:

...although in that case it's a little silly

[20:34:38]

stuartm:

the upside is that FTA HD quality seems to be much better in the UK, BBC uses higher bitrate (and H.264) than the US channels

[20:36:39]

stuartm:

Dagmar: it's as good as for the majority using STB DVRs – which bizarrely is what seems to upset content providers, apparently they are happy to ignore a few hobbyists so long as the public at large can't copy off their recordings and distribute them among friends

[20:36:47]

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[20:37:28]

Dagmar:

stuartm: Isn't this the point where you usually call the manufacturer and ask "So when's the firmware update to handle compressed EIT data coming out?"

[20:38:53]

Dagmar:

Ah wait, I was misinformed earlier

[20:38:54]

stuartm:

Dagmar: well the BBC won't license the huffman tables unless the manufacturers agree to implement some form of DRM, i.e. prevent users moving those recordings off the drive to more than one device

[20:39:17]

Dagmar:

Yeah getting mad at the BBC isn't going to accomplish anything

[20:39:22]

stuartm:

but since you don't need the EPG to record or even schedule

[20:39:25]

Dagmar:

Get mad at the people making the BBC do this

[20:39:38]

stuartm:

Dagmar: aye, exactly

[20:40:40]

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[20:40:43]

Viper550:

hey

[20:41:14]

Dagmar:

On an only slightly related note, trying to read british legal code is like trying to read freaking swedish while hanging upside down

[20:41:28]

Dagmar:

I am hoping it'll get easier with time

[20:41:41]

stuartm:

the BBC are between a rock and hard place, if they want to show films in HD (and it will mostly be films that are affected) then they have to appease the studios – they have no leverage, the dozens of other channels in the UK are commercial, they have no problems with using encryption and can afford to outbid the BBC too

[20:42:50]

Dagmar:

Do they even have a DMCA there?

[20:42:54]

Dagmar:

Huffman coding isn't exactly encryption

[20:43:15]

Dagmar:

They can talk about licencing the tables all they like, but you could brute force something with a few day's worth of data

[20:43:48]

sid3windr:

but does that give you the right to use the data obtained this way.. :)

[20:44:08]

Dagmar:

That depends on a whole nother set of laws I know about in the US, but nothing about in the UK

[20:44:24]

wagnerrp:

if its not encrypted, you have every right to access the data

[20:44:34]

stuartm:

and this technically weak answer is actually the best the BBC can do, their charter (constitution if you will) prevents encryption of video/audio – they have to broadcast FTA, even then they are having to go on hands and knees to the regulator for approval just to compress the EPG on Freeview (DVB-T)

[20:44:39]

wagnerrp:

of course 'encryption' is a relative term

[20:44:46]

Viper550:

UK actually DOES have protection for databases

[20:44:55]

Dagmar:

No, encryption is a rather specific scientific term

[20:44:58]

wagnerrp:

and even something like rot-13 would be protected under something like the the DMCA

[20:45:07]

Dagmar:

Compression is not encryption, and encryption is not compression.

[20:45:29]

Dagmar:

Someone trying to argue that they're the same will have no end of actual experts testifying to the contrary in court

[20:45:57]

Dagmar:

The only way someone would mistake one for the other is if they firmly beleive that all advanced mathematics is acually magic

[20:46:21]

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[20:46:22]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: rot-13 *is* actually encryption

[20:46:31]

Dagmar:

it's laughably weak but it's still encryption

[20:46:55]

patdk-wk:

heh

[20:47:01]

stuartm:

although Hauffman is technically intended for compression, it does depend on a table which is frequently different according to the implementation, I suppose it could be described as a substitution cipher

[20:48:00]

Dagmar:

Only if you can't do math

[20:48:03]

stuartm:

to decompress Hauffman encoded data you need a key (the table), which is unlike almost any other compression algo in common use

[20:48:07]

sphery:

Dagmar: yeah, US.

[20:48:12]

** patdk-wk finds randomizing the bytes to be more fun than encryption **

[20:48:16]

Dagmar:

No.

[20:48:27]

Dagmar:

Arguing that the definition of morons should be the legal definition is a short route to FAIL

[20:48:30]

stuartm:

Dagmar: well that goes for pretty much any substitution cipher

[20:48:33]

Dagmar:

It won't hold up in any court

[20:48:48]

patdk-wk:

dagmar, anything will hold up, in a usa court :)

[20:48:53]

Dagmar:

No it won't

[20:48:55]

patdk-wk:

you just need the right judge

[20:49:16]

Dagmar:

Yes an that's where there's the appeals process

[20:49:22]

Dagmar:

Thanks for playing, shouldn' you be trolling a forum osmeplace?

[20:49:47]

stuartm:

Dagmar: one pundit has described the BBC's implementation as a gentleman's agreement, legally unenforceable but relying on most people to do the right thing

[20:50:20]

Dagmar:

Well, one could just as easily make a storage group be mounted using FUSE using one of the lightweight crypto modules

[20:50:58]

Dagmar:

That would probably do more to satisfy their request that there be copy protection than them using Huffman accomplishes

[20:51:10]

stuartm:

the STB manufacturers will stay in line, they don't want to piss off the major broadcaster in the UK, I don't think they even care whether anyone else does

[20:51:11]

Dagmar:

I'm not kidding about huffman tables being able to be brute forced rather easily

[20:51:37]

wagnerrp:

especially considering the table data will be text

[20:51:40]

Dagmar:

Being that it's not actually encryption at _all_, it's likely that doing so won't break any laws

[20:52:06]

Dagmar:

Yeah, it's a) text, b) text with a LOT of repettions, and c) text containing many many pieces of known plaintext

[20:52:08]

stuartm:

that said the BBC has offered to license the tables free of charge to OSS projects which agree to the DRM

[20:52:18]

Dagmar:

Yeah I"m trying to find that bit right now

[20:52:37]

Dagmar:

Ofcom doesn't really write these documents with an eye towards making things easy to find in them

[20:53:17]

stuartm:

Dagmar: we already have complete HUffman tables for the satellite based Freesat service, I wonder if they will even bother to change them for Freeview

[20:53:20]

Dagmar:

It's looking so far like they're about to just be making an expensive but empty gesture

[20:53:30]

Dagmar:

stuartm: Yeah that's a good quesiton

[20:53:57]

wagnerrp:

how can OSS projects possibly agree to DRM?

[20:54:13]

stuartm:

but as I keep saying, at the end of the day we'll always have xmltv as a way to avoid the issue entirely

[20:54:17]

Dagmar:

I mean, since this isn't actually encryption we're talking about, this measure might be even less effective than CSS in that the keys are already known, and uncompressing the data may well not break any law at all

[20:54:42]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: err, easily? DRM is not at odds with OSS or the GPL (at least not v2)

[20:55:21]

wagnerrp:

stuartm: it absolutely is

[20:55:26]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: IT's easy. All you have to do is make an effort to keep the user from being able to as easily access a file with say, cat.

[20:55:27]

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[20:55:39]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: no... its not

[20:55:47]

wagnerrp:

the source is available, and the program has the ability to decode

[20:55:51]

Dagmar:

Technically mounting a filesystem using FUSE "protected" by a user id would accomplish it

[20:56:11]

wagnerrp:

so the user just needs to recompile to dump the decoded video to a file, rather than to Xv

[20:56:13]

Dagmar:

Wagnerrp: Whether or not someone can modify the shipped source has no bearing on what the shipped source does or why it does it

[20:56:19]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: how? That's like saying dm_crypt violates the GPL

[20:56:35]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Or, if things were done like I were tlaking about, it's not like they couldn't su to root and copy the files out

[20:56:38]

stuartm:

BBC even has their own DRM tech which I think they have either open sourced or they plan to open source

[20:56:40]

wagnerrp:

the official project source can follow the DRM all they want

[20:56:44]

wagnerrp:

but with the source available

[20:56:51]

wagnerrp:

its trivial for the end user to bypass

[20:56:52]

Dagmar:

This is why I'm looking for specfically _what_ form this DRM should take

[20:57:05]

Dagmar:

Like, what satisfies the BBC's requirementS?

[20:57:16]

Dagmar:

It might be that simply using rot13 as a pipe would do

[20:57:21]

stuartm:

wagnerrp: sure, but that's the end users lookout, in the same way they can hack/chip their STBs to do the same

[20:57:55]

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[20:57:57]

Dagmar:

I mean, how long in CPU cycles does it take to xor bytes by 255?

[20:58:07]

Dagmar:

How long would it take to hack that in?

[20:58:18]

Dagmar:

...an would it satisfy the requirement of "DRM"

[20:58:22]

wagnerrp:

hehehe

[20:58:32]

wagnerrp:

about as effective as rot-26

[20:58:50]

Dagmar:

because let's face it, part of the reason DRM is fairly freaking pointless is that it's impossible so long as the user physically possesses the media

[20:58:57]

stuartm:

it doesn't matter what individuals do, so long as the project does not endorse or aid it

[20:59:34]

stuartm:

that's no different to our current anti-torrent/piracy policies, we can't stop uses hacking in the Apple trailers plugin, or using mythvideo for pirated content, or patching to use soft cams etc

[20:59:54]

Dagmar:

Preety much

[21:01:43]

stuartm:

the Beeb know all of this, which is why this is so obviously just a gesture for the benefit of the content providers – I don't see any other conclusion

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[21:08:54]

Dagmar:

Yeah they're not FOX. We've no reason to believe they actually think Huffman coding is encryption.

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[21:16:51]

stuartm:

beeb techs seem to show up at all the linux events, even the nerdy little ones, for all we know there is one in this channel right now

[21:18:27]

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[21:18:48]

stuartm:

they are perhaps the one group I respect at the BBC, middle-managment etc have their heads up their a****

[21:20:15]

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[21:23:14]

stuartm:

to understand what I mean by that I guess you'd have to watch the weekly 'Points of View' where they respond to viewer questions and criticism, the justifications they come out with are so detatched from logic or reality that you have to imagine those guys are aliens spending their first day on earth

[21:23:55]

sid3windr:

at least they have something :p

[21:24:03]

sid3windr:

where they respond

[21:24:14]

sid3windr:

unlike belgian broadcasters ;)

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[21:31:33]

Viper550:

Does anyone here use Sasktel Max television?

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[22:21:35]

Dibblah:

"it had to do with a master backend, which I don't have." – Uhhm. Eh?

[22:22:03]

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[22:22:05]

Dibblah:

Even the -dev mailing list is getting a high N/S ratio at the moment :(

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[23:00:10]

devinheitmueller:

hey, can we get an admin to punt rwhiteman@beagle.com.au off of the mythtv-users mailing list?

[23:00:29]

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[23:01:10]

skd5aner:

yay – arclight in trunk :)

[23:02:00]

iamlindoro:

Yarrrrrr

[23:02:02]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: you around?

[23:02:07]

iamlindoro:

Nope

[23:02:08]

skd5aner:

of course :)

[23:02:45]

skd5aner:

reading the commit, the comments around installing the font or it will look "very, very wrong" made me think...

[23:03:42]

skd5aner:

you should do what the wiibrew folks did when they detect people who don't follow their directions, put a little piece of code in that causes Arclight that will reverse the theme and text if it doesn't detect the font ;)

[23:04:18]

skd5aner:

make everything mirror image – haha, show them not to follow directions

[23:04:35]

iamlindoro:

heh

[23:04:43]

iamlindoro:

I can't

[23:04:52]

iamlindoro:

they don't make PC's that spray lighter fluid and light matches yet

[23:04:56]

skd5aner:

would definitely look "very, very wrong"

[23:05:42]

Dagmar:

wtf is with people on there today

[23:05:50]

skd5aner:

it's amazing how many people post "why is the homebrew channel upside down on my wii"

[23:06:13]

Dagmar:

"I can't get <insert random piece of hardware that's not MythTV> to play my videos"

[23:06:20]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: its due to a lack of FOIP providers

[23:06:26]

Dagmar:

"Lightning struck my house and now I cna't pick up any channels."

[23:06:55]

skd5aner:

anyway, iamlindoro – thanks for sharing the work for all, I know you said it'll really make MNV shine

[23:07:22]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner: In *my* opinion anyway, people can of course draw their own conclusions

[23:07:54]

skd5aner:

well, if it's what you used while you designed the thing, then I'd expect it at least has an initial legs up on the rest of the themes

[23:13:45]

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[23:25:11]

RyeBrye:

so with arclight... what's the difference between Frutiger 45 Light Standard and the one in the gpl drop? If I install the Frutiger otf will it use that one as a priority or do I have to modify the gpl theme to get the font "as god intended" (or as the themer intended...)

[23:27:04]

stuartm:

that reminds me, I was going to modify it so that you could specify alternate fonts in order of preference

[23:27:17]

stuartm:

ala css/html

[23:27:19]

** RyeBrye demands a refund! ;) **

[23:27:36]

RyeBrye:

The screenshots of arclight look awesome – good work :)

[23:30:43]

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[23:34:55]

iamlindoro:

RyeBrye, Arclight is no longer using Frutiger

[23:34:57]

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[23:35:11]

iamlindoro:

it ships with two included fonts, which need to be installed in your system manually

[23:35:26]

iamlindoro:

see the commit for details

[23:36:23]

RyeBrye:

Yep, did those – just curious if those fonts are included as a compromise because of the non-free license for Frutiger and if using Frutiger instead would help see things the way it was intended – or if those are included because they were found to be better (or at least as good) as frutiger

[23:36:36]

RyeBrye:

but with a more compatible license

[23:36:38]

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[23:37:00]

iamlindoro:

CartoGothic is the one taht replaecd Frutiger in most places, and I consider it good but not "as good"

[23:37:12]

iamlindoro:

since Frutiger is no longer referenced in the XML, it would not be used even if you had it

[23:37:21]

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[23:37:57]

iamlindoro:

I made the changes for aesthetic reasons, but not because I was eager to GPL the theme-- I wasn't eager for it to be GPL at all, truth be told

[23:39:38]

RyeBrye:

Is there a post on the mailing list where you talk about your reason for the gpl switch? I see a bunch of thank-you's and a bunch of pre-gpl discussion where you mention the cc license – but not the "here's why I'm GPL'ing" post (but maybe I haven't dug deep enough in the mailing list searchign yet)

[23:39:56]

iamlindoro:

There is no post to that effect

[23:40:44]

iamlindoro:

I made the decision based on my ability to find fonts I considered adequate and free, increasing the liklihood that the theme will be experienced as I wrote it, and because I decided to "take one for the team" in trying to promote myth theming

[23:42:33]

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[23:42:43]

RyeBrye:

Cool. I've already changed two or three of the background images to have animated jiggling boobs and have started sending them to my friends – so thanks for GPL'ing it

[23:42:56]

** RyeBrye jokes, of course... and by boobs I meant boobies – the birds **

[23:43:00]

iamlindoro:

My hopes and dreams are realized

[23:43:15]

dustybin:

monit just sent a message to mythtvosd for real!!!! my recordings directory is now 95% full :D

[23:43:23]

** dustybin feels excited **

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[23:45:23]

dustybin:

/dev/sda1 400G 383G 18G 96% /mnt/mythtv

[23:45:57]

stuartm:

sometimes I envy dustybin, the ability to take such great pleasure from nothing at all is something I'd love to possess

[23:46:09]

stuartm:

certainly beats the opposite

[23:48:05]

iamlindoro:

indeed

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