Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, December 7th, 2009, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:13]

dserban:

is there a single usb device that has ports for four IR blasters apart from the commandir and is lirc compatible?

[00:00:16]

dserban:

yes

[00:05:32]

klpt:

does anybody know what the thing in the lower right corner of mythfrontend is that blocks half of the rightmost letter in the system clock is?

[00:05:54]

klpt:

dserban: sounds like a job for a parallel port!

[00:06:19]

klpt:

dserban: added via a parallel to usb adapter

[00:07:28]

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[00:17:35]

wagnerrp:

klpt: there is nothing in the lower right corner of mythfrontend

[00:17:49]

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[00:18:08]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend is themed, so if it IS something from mythfrontend, it is theme defined

[00:18:08]

klpt:

hm, maybe it's a font size issue. my screen dpi is not any nice number

[00:18:29]

klpt:

but it looks like just a chunk of gray background in the default theme

[00:18:38]

klpt:

i'm running at about 250 dpi

[00:23:29]

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[00:38:20]

clop2:

is xfs still the preferred file system for myth recordings?

[00:38:35]

clop2:

i'm gonna have to rebuild my backend

[00:43:41]

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[00:59:09]

moebm:

mythfrontend only let me change to other subchannels on one channel

[00:59:23]

moebm:

I see the other channels in the program guide but they are grayed out

[01:01:23]

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[01:13:22]

Essobi:

Yea, I think I'm going to redo my backend too.

[01:13:52]

Essobi:

I need the firewire for the STB, and the BTTVs are just pissing me off.

[01:13:58]

sphery:

moebm: that means that your system is recording a show on the multiplex to which you're locked, so you can't change the channel on that input. You need to switch inputs

[01:14:14]

sphery:

bind a key to NEXTCARD (currently broken) or use the MENU

[01:14:21]

rebecca_:

mzb: sorry i had to vanish quickly before

[01:14:31]

mzb:

np

[01:14:34]

Essobi:

sphery: Nextcard is broken?

[01:14:37]

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[01:14:38]

Essobi:

Bah.

[01:14:53]

sphery:

the key binding is

[01:15:00]

sphery:

but the menu works find

[01:15:03]

sphery:

fine, even

[01:15:17]

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[01:15:21]

sphery:

(ironically, a typo is the reason NEXTCARD is broken)

[01:15:26]

Essobi:

Hehe

[01:15:35]

Essobi:

NEXTCAR?

[01:15:35]

rebecca_:

so, cpu wise, is a Athlon X2 5050e sufficient for a frontend box?

[01:15:43]

rebecca_:

doing HD

[01:15:43]

sphery:

moebm: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/369358#369358 if you want to make LiveTV "higher priority" than recordings.

[01:16:02]

sphery:

(i.e. want LiveTV to get its own tuner--at least until more recordings start)

[01:16:08]

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[01:16:20]

sphery:

choose the last approach mentioned, but you'll need to read the whole post to understand it

[01:16:42]

mzb:

rebecca_, my combined MBE + FE is an X2 4400+

[01:16:46]

mzb:

works well

[01:16:47]

Essobi:

It's wierd... My BTTV's have a PCI-ID that shows up for them, but BTTV says it can't detect an audio card.

[01:16:57]

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[01:17:08]

sphery:

it's actually SWITCHCARD which is a typo because the name of the function we call is switchCard() and the name of the binding is NEXTCARD

[01:17:13]

sphery:

(i.e. confusion typo)

[01:17:16]

mzb:

although I've not really tested much HD on it

[01:17:25]

Essobi:

ah.. Heh.

[01:17:34]

Essobi:

Anyone know much about BTTVs?

[01:17:43]

sphery:

5050 should be good for most MPEG-2 HDTV.

[01:17:55]

** mzb chooses to forget about bttv ;) **

[01:18:00]

rebecca_:

mzb: ok, thanks

[01:18:07]

rebecca_:

sphery: and doing commercial detection?

[01:18:08]

sphery:

might work for some H.264, but I can't tell you its limits

[01:18:33]

mzb:

rebecca_, having 'n' methods of remote control and raid-arrays help ;)

[01:18:35]

Essobi:

mzb: It's like that?

[01:18:43]

mzb:

Essobi, yes

[01:18:46]

Essobi:

:(

[01:19:02]

mzb:

digital is a luxury I don't want to lose

[01:19:34]

mzb:

bttv itself is simple enough ... results just aren't as good

[01:19:37]

sphery:

rebecca_: should be ok, but might not be realtime (when playing back recordings in the frontend)

[01:20:05]

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[01:20:15]

rebecca_:

okay, realtime isn't a worry.

[01:20:29]

mzb:

rebecca_, afaik, the stations in .au do 720p at best

[01:20:35]

sphery:

yeah, best is to set it at medium with one job allowed (for a compbined frontend/backend)

[01:20:47]

rebecca_:

i was thinking of getting 2 x Athlon X2 5050e. for use in both backend and frontend boxes

[01:21:01]

sphery:

mzb: I always forget--is .au doing MPEG-2?

[01:21:02]

mzb:

*or* two jobs set out-of-hours ;)

[01:21:02]

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[01:21:07]

mzb:

sphery, yes

[01:21:36]

sphery:

yeah, having different settings for different times doesn't really work, though (without actually changing the settings)

[01:21:45]

sphery:

but if you're not watching, one at a time should be fine

[01:22:18]

sphery:

(just meaning you probably spend more time not watching than watching, so it will catch up, anyway)

[01:22:25]

mzb:

I've found realtime commflag reduces the "viewing experience" (aka WAF;)

[01:22:41]

antgel:

i can't add a comment to ticket 7546, as it is locked. what's the point of locking the bug?

[01:23:07]

rebecca_:

but if a Athlon X2 5050e frontend won't handle some video formats currently in use then it's not futureproof enough to be worthwhile buying.

[01:23:13]

sphery:

I'm doing "near realtime" commflagging of MPEG-2 HDTV on my Athlon XP 2400+ and Athlon XP 2000+ and allow it even during watching hours and don't have issues

[01:23:15]

antgel:

the last comment is "we know what the bug is" with no description of a patch or workaround etc, and no mention of why some users can tune to the channel

[01:23:24]

mzb:

rebecca_, should be more than fast enough

[01:23:38]

sphery:

though for those systems, "near realtime" isn't anywhere near real time--as it takes almost 2:1 to commflag some shows

[01:23:55]

rebecca_:

okay. cool

[01:24:28]

sphery:

the H.264 is being used on Blu-Ray and by /some/ countries.

[01:24:31]

mzb:

perhaps I should bring it down to a single job and retry realtime

[01:24:38]

rebecca_:

im going to be spending more than i expected on this system.. with both the frontend and backend.. i hope i really like mythtv, lol

[01:24:44]

sphery:

I don't know of any other HDTV-resolution/bitrate uses of H.264

[01:25:10]

rebecca_:

ok

[01:25:29]

sphery:

(and, yeah, I know Hulu and most networks use it for the stuff--even the "high-def" versions--but their "high-def" is /not/ what most people would consider high def.)

[01:25:37]

sphery:

their stuff

[01:26:04]

mzb:

rebecca_, how could you not like something as elegant as this: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . etv_full.jpg

[01:26:08]

sphery:

and for Hulu, it's not the decoding that's the issue--it's the CPU-based scaling

[01:26:13]

mzb:

(although it's much better now;))

[01:26:19]

sphery:

(since it's all Flash trash)

[01:26:45]

iamlindoro:

Most things that start with Flash are Trash

[01:26:49]

iamlindoro:

like FlashForward

[01:26:55]

mzb:

Flash Gordon?

[01:26:57]

rebecca_:

mzb: haha, yeah

[01:27:14]

sphery:

mzb: it's also critical to at least have it on Medium--if you have proper priority configuration on your system--or Low (if not)

[01:27:23]

mzb:

ok

[01:28:31]

mzb:

rebecca_, now it's a 24" (hoping for >=42" one day) connected to the MBE downstairs with IR+wii+X10 remote and lcdproc display in a picture frame ;)

[01:28:46]

sphery:

proper priority config means don't do Completely Fair Sharing (CFS) and GROUP_SCHED and USER_SCHED

[01:28:48]

mzb:

*cough* no wiring visible (in theory;))

[01:28:56]

sphery:

USER_SCHED being the killer

[01:29:07]

mzb:

so LOW would be overkill?

[01:29:14]

mzb:

(or jobs would never complete?)

[01:29:37]

mzb:

(or not be realtime?)

[01:29:39]

sphery:

yeah, only difference between medium and low is that low forces the thread to sleep for a while after each frame is processed

[01:29:47]

Essobi:

Jeez.. I think I may possibly have the first ATI TV Wonder ever made. lol

[01:29:47]

sphery:

Medium just runs as nice 17

[01:30:08]

mzb:

ok, I'll give it a go next time I make changes

[01:30:18]

sphery:

(Low is also nice 17, but sleeps in case you don't have proper kernel scheduling)

[01:30:34]

sphery:

I use medium on my underpowered systems

[01:30:34]

mzb:

hmm

[01:30:38]

antgel:

did anyone see my comments ^^? think they might have gotten lost in amongst the existing conversation i butted into :)

[01:30:42]

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[01:31:36]

mzb:

rebecca_, hehe, hmm that pic is (reasonably current), thought I'd loaded the older one

[01:31:49]

sphery:

antgel: tickets get locked when people start adding unnecessary/unwanted info--i.e. "me too's"--or when they're holding a discussion in our bug database instead of our (meant-for-discussion) mailing lists

[01:32:19]

mzb:

(now have pic in picture frame;)

[01:32:26]

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[01:32:39]

sphery:

antgel: that one, specifically, was locked because, "

[01:32:39]

sphery:

antgel: that one, specifically, was locked because, "

[01:32:39]

sphery:

We know what the bug is.

[01:32:45]

sphery:

strange...

[01:32:55]

sphery:

don't know how the paste did that

[01:33:04]

sphery:

because, "We know what the bug is."

[01:33:14]

antgel:

sphery: ah. i didn't know that commenting on a bug was frowned on. a little unusual... so i have to subscribe to -dev to discuss the bug? doesn't it make more sense to have bug discussion in the bug

[01:33:15]

mzb:

rebecca_, ie: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . re_frame.jpg

[01:33:16]

sphery:

i.e. the only thing left is for someone to write and test and commit the fix

[01:33:29]

sphery:

antgel: no, you can also use the -users list

[01:33:34]

antgel:

actually, forget that, i assume if it made more sense then it would be so – just not what i'm used to

[01:33:44]

iamlindoro:

antgel, no, it doesn't. Especially when the discussion makes it near-impossible for those of use doing the work to fix them to find relevant info

[01:33:49]

antgel:

sphery: i'm not subbed to that either :D

[01:33:58]

sphery:

our bug database is meant for bug reports and discussion/user help doesn't belong there

[01:34:18]

antgel:

ok, understood, i wasn't aware, apologies

[01:34:49]

sphery:

the problem is that everyone subscribed to -commits gets every single "me to" that users add sent as an e-mail that they're /forced/ to read/delete

[01:35:06]

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[01:35:14]

sphery:

as opposed to a mailing list for discussion with proper threading/replies/etc--which allow better client-based managment/killing of threads

[01:35:59]

sphery:

also, the comments--even when "on topic" generally don't provide the necessary info from the previous posts, meaning they're useless in and of themselves

[01:36:16]

antgel:

but i don't see any discussion of this bug on either list, and it would be nice to have some visibility of what the bug is, how one might patch or workaround it, and why it happens for me yet others can tune into it (the last of these three being somewhat beside the point, i admit)

[01:36:31]

sphery:

and when we have a ticket with 30, 40, 50+ comments on it, the dev who finally gets around to fixing the bug has to read /every/ single one of those comments and find the useful info among the trash

[01:36:56]

iamlindoro:

antgel, Not all bugs have workarounds or fixes... or they'd be fixed

[01:37:05]

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[01:37:06]

iamlindoro:

and if you want visibility, or answers, then that's what the mailing lists are for

[01:37:43]

antgel:

iamlindoro: well, i looked on the list, and it's not visible. but i am not looking to argue

[01:37:44]

iamlindoro:

but when I go to try to work on a bug, and there are 30 "me too"s to sift through to find any relevant info, I'm more inclined to just do something else out of irritation

[01:37:54]

antgel:

sure, but i wasn't posting "me too"s

[01:37:57]

sphery:

antgel: knowing what the bug is doen't mean we have written the fix

[01:38:04]

iamlindoro:

antgel, what were you going to post?

[01:38:11]

iamlindoro:

do you have a patch?

[01:38:25]

iamlindoro:

If so, I'll unlock the bug and you can post it

[01:38:29]

sphery:

it doesn't even mean we know /how/ to write the fix--only that we fully understand what's happening

[01:38:40]

antgel:

sphery: yes, but knowing what it is does mean that people can try to patch

[01:38:43]

antgel:

sphery: ah

[01:38:54]

sphery:

(and, I think that's exactly where we are on that one--we know what's happening, but we don't know how to work around ITV's trying to prevent Sky users from watching the content)

[01:39:45]

antgel:

iamlindoro: no, i don't have a patch. but i'd be happy to work with whoever cares to write one – i can test on my system, provide more info etc

[01:39:46]

sphery:

(or something like that--they're sending garbage info to try to keep people they don't want to watch that channel from finding it)

[01:39:48]

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[01:40:02]

iamlindoro:

antgel, so... what were you going to post?

[01:40:24]

antgel:

iamlindoro: my comment was (verbatim)... Any chance of filling us (me) in? What's the problem, is there a patch, and how come some people can tune to it seemingly with no problem?

[01:40:27]

iamlindoro:

tickets are for patches, and concrete diagnostic information that would directly lead to the solving of the issue

[01:40:44]

iamlindoro:

antgel, So that's an "I'm having this problem too, tell me more"

[01:40:53]

iamlindoro:

or, put short, "me too"

[01:41:00]

antgel:

well, not really, as i opened the ticket

[01:41:19]

iamlindoro:

it's still a tell me more, and not adding anything of diagnostic value

[01:41:22]

antgel:

hence i was trying to continue my involvement towards assisting resolution

[01:41:31]

antgel:

but it's not a "me too"

[01:41:31]

iamlindoro:

If you want a discussion, it goes on the (discussion) lists

[01:41:51]

sphery:

it's a "me one"?

[01:41:56]

sphery:

or "me still"

[01:42:00]

iamlindoro:

if the ticket hadn't already been locked, the above comment would have resulted in it being

[01:42:09]

sphery:

which should be implied by the fact that's it's not closed/fixed :)

[01:43:30]

rebecca_:

mzb: oh, that's cute, did you make it? also, is the upper part of the frame going to be an LCD or it's just a regular picture holder bit?

[01:43:46]

mzb:

regular picture (inserted yesterday)

[01:44:14]

mzb:

yes, 5x picture frames from deals direct ($10) and usb LCD off ebay

[01:44:14]

rebecca_:

cool

[01:44:37]

** rebecca_ nods **

[01:44:43]

rebecca_ is now known as Rebecca

[01:44:45]

mzb:

(other four frames get "kiddie pics" for gifts to relatives;)

[01:44:51]

mzb:

a/sfor/as

[01:44:53]

mzb:

grr

[01:44:54]

antgel:

just out of interest, could i have learned this information anyway without bothering the channel? i'm not saying it's wrong, it's just a different way of working to most other bug trackers i've come across in the past

[01:45:33]

iamlindoro:

antgel, yes, there's a ticket howto you are advised to have read when trying to open one

[01:45:43]

iamlindoro:

It's the first line when trying to open a ticket

[01:45:59]

sphery:

we should probably put more info on "what to do when you find an open ticket" in http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/TicketHowTo

[01:46:10]

antgel:

iamlindoro: thanks. i might add something to http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Bug_Tracking_System

[01:46:13]

sphery:

and put some more info in the (normal) wiki

[01:46:17]

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[01:46:24]

mzb:

Rebecca, while I was fiddling with that frame I ended up having to rewrite the firmware: http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/mythtv/ . . . b_splash.jpg

[01:46:27]

sphery:

antgel: that wuold be the perfect place in the normal wiki

[01:46:30]

mzb:

(I hate branding;))

[01:46:59]

mzb:

(ps: makes sense to relatives, even though not technically correct)

[01:47:17]

mzb:

(and there wasn't room for "brought to you by";))

[01:47:34]

Rebecca:

mzb: nice hehe

[01:48:10]

mzb:

now means we have truly accurate clock in the lounge ... hoping to use it for callerID and various other things too

[01:48:32]

mzb:

(rainfall, door/movement notfications, reminders, etc)

[01:48:59]

mzb:

ie: the things I'm currently doing with "spoken" announcements

[01:49:12]

mzb:

"Kitchen door: open" (debug)

[01:49:37]

mzb:

a drip sound when the rain tipper "tips" (also debug, but I like it;))

[01:50:24]

mzb:

http://www.users.on.net/~marcusbrutus/RainTip . . . _mounted.jpg

[01:50:25]

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[01:50:28]

mzb:

^ also home made

[01:51:10]

mzb:

(mostly from a cable drum and some PVC pipe ... oh and the lid off an old floppy drive was used to make the tipper bucket itself)

[01:51:56]

mzb:

need to seal up the underside ... getting occasional tips during heavy gusts (when bucket almost full)

[01:51:58]

antgel:

sphery: out of interest, does your hypothesis mean i should still be able to insert the channel manually somehow without using the channel scanner? (yes i know database manipulation is frowned on)

[01:52:27]

mzb:

but anyway ... ;)

[01:52:31]

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[01:53:04]

dserban:

mzb: what frame are you talking about?

[01:53:24]

mzb:

picture frame with an LCD mounted in it

[01:53:33]

antgel:

EGMANE

[01:53:33]

mzb:

(shows mythtv status among other things)

[01:53:40]

dserban:

you've done this?

[01:53:45]

mzb:

yes

[01:53:52]

mzb:

pic above

[01:53:57]

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[01:55:26]

dserban:

mzb: wow nice. I understood you were putting your tv in a frame heh

[01:55:32]

mzb:

:)

[01:55:54]

mzb:

don't have a picture that big :)

[01:56:22]

mzb:

and the brick chimney would be a pain to cut ;))

[01:56:23]

dserban:

hehe..

[01:57:00]

mzb:

(disused chimney, apart from all the "loungetv" cables running in it;)

[01:57:15]

mzb:

ie: hdmi, audio, usb, power

[01:58:17]

dserban:

I'm running into my chimney ... gotta pull out some drywall to route some cat6 to different spots in the house

[01:59:19]

mzb:

the 24" LCD is only a couple of metres away from the FE downstairs ... but to get the "hidden cable" effect I had to go the long way :)

[01:59:46]

mzb:

didn't need to go cat6 to here (already have cat6 everywhere else;)

[01:59:56]

mzb:

long USB run was a pain

[02:00:09]

mzb:

had heaps of issues

[02:00:15]

mzb:

seems to be working properly now

[02:00:37]

mzb:

5–6m run? ... with a 7 port hub (hidden behind the centre speaker)

[02:01:04]

dserban:

yikes...

[02:01:31]

dserban:

my house is old, trying to replace the coax with cat6 to every room... it's a pain

[02:02:05]

mzb:

runs: wii-remote charger stand (single), bluetooth dongle, LCD (pic frame), webcam (one day it'll work;), streamzap receiver, usb audio dongle ...

[02:02:31]

antgel:

i give you http://www.mythtv.org/wiki?title=Bug_Tracking . . . ;oldid=30222

[02:02:34]

antgel:

'night all

[02:02:49]

mzb:

thinking about plugging in the USB steering wheel if/when playing TORCS (if I ever get around to installing it on the FE)

[02:03:12]

mzb:

*or* for $5 I could get a "wheel attachment" for the wii-remote ... not quite the same thing;)

[02:03:22]

dserban:

i'm researching a method to have audio distribuited throughout the house... mainly a dumb terminal with audio output and a rj45 connector so that different rooms access the same server to source the music...

[02:03:54]

mzb:

openwrt router with usb audio dongle? :)

[02:04:01]

mzb:

+ pulse audio

[02:04:16]

mzb:

s/routers

[02:04:19]

Brad-D:

pulse audio is evil!

[02:04:36]

mzb:

yes, but not made by the devil

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[02:05:07]

mzb:

and I'm not aware of a different method of synchronising sound between multiple machines

[02:05:18]

mzb:

(s/better method)

[02:05:34]

** mzb goes for caffeine **

[02:05:41]

dserban:

mzb, it doesn't need to synchronize... just access the backend server and play the mp3... streaming would work too, but I think that's asking much

[02:05:51]

dserban:

a'ight, g'nite folks.

[02:07:31]

sphery:

antgel: I don't know for sure. I just saw some people talking about it in #mythtv and didn't really follow most of it (as it's all foreign to me--literally :)

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clop2:

if i have an older version of myth (0.20, I think), and backup my database, will it be okay when i restore the database for the current version?

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[02:39:59]

wagnerrp:

are you asking if your old install will continue working if you upgrade the database for a new version?

[02:43:16]

clop2:

sorry i wasn't clear... i need to reformat my backend machine, so i'm wondering: if I make a backup my database, which was created and managed by 0.20, will a fresh install of the latest myth be able to understand it?

[02:44:18]

clop2:

or perhaps I would need to do something to convert my old database, in case some changes have been made to the database format

[03:02:08]

wagnerrp:

yes, mythtv should be able to update from any previous version of mythtv

[03:02:16]

wagnerrp:

(at least from any in the last several years)

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[03:24:22]

sunny:

hey guys, whats a good USB-IR/Remote combo ?

[03:24:43]

sunny:

I've read the wiki, and it seems that the Snapstream Firefly appears to be a nice choice

[03:26:35]

wagnerrp:

ive been happy with my mceusb2s

[03:26:55]

wagnerrp:

i thought the firefly was actually RF

[03:27:07]

superm1:

(they're all mceusb now since the code merged into one driver)

[03:27:14]

wagnerrp:

yeah, RF, receiver only, no blaster

[03:27:36]

wagnerrp:

was that 0.8.6?

[03:30:06]

superm1:

yup

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sunny:

wagnerrp: link ?

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[05:16:54]

Essobi:

I hate bttv.

[05:16:56]

Essobi:

heh

[05:17:40]

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[05:18:23]

oobe:

its not bttv's fault you bought a framegrabber

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[05:41:49]

xris:

wow, people still use framegrabbers?

[05:41:55]

xris:

;)

[05:42:12]

wagnerrp:

s/frame/lame/

[05:42:51]

xris:

hmm.. external hard drive sitting under desk == foot warmer.

[05:42:56]

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[05:43:17]

thansen:

anyone in here ever get ac3 pass thru to work with usb sound card?

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[06:00:35]

thansen:

guess I'll try again during the day :)

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[06:04:22]

rajendrau:

How to use virtual tuners for recording without any gap in between recordings

[06:06:07]

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[06:32:42]

oobe:

How to phrase a question in a way that makes sense.

[06:33:48]

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[06:34:02]

wagnerrp:

oobe: a verb in the sentence add you must

[06:34:16]

oobe:

yeash

[06:34:17]

[R]:

HAHA

[06:34:27]

oobe:

thanks yoda

[06:35:06]

wagnerrp:

your feelings serve you well

[06:35:27]

oobe:

i mainly feel anger

[06:35:39]

oobe:

serves me unwell

[06:36:56]

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[06:40:15]

sidd:

hi, can someone tell my how to restrict the diskspace used by myth in live tv?

[06:40:22]

sidd:

i am running myth from a usb drive and it crashes when diskspace becomes full

[06:40:29]

sidd:

is there a way to tell myth to restrict its live file to be 512 MB only?

[06:41:37]

wagnerrp:

there is no 'livetv file'

[06:41:41]

wagnerrp:

not any longer

[06:41:51]

wagnerrp:

livetv is nothing different from any other recording

[06:41:58]

wagnerrp:

its just set to expire first

[06:42:40]

wagnerrp:

your only option is to make a separate livetv partition, and add that to the LiveTV storage group

[06:43:30]

sidd:

wagnerrp: was going through the docs and realized as much. so as i understand, myth will automatically expire the content when diskspace is near full. will this also happen to the current channel file?

[06:43:40]

sidd:

i am using myth 0.21 on fedora 10

[06:43:47]

wagnerrp:

current channel file?

[06:43:59]

sidd:

as in the nuv file created in the default storage dir

[06:44:28]

wagnerrp:

livetv files are exactly the same as recordings

[06:44:35]

sidd:

it creates a file for time shift tv right? or can i switch the feature off?

[06:44:38]

wagnerrp:

and are similarly split at show boundaries

[06:44:44]

wagnerrp:

there isnt a single file for a single session

[06:44:57]

wagnerrp:

and it will not expire the currently in use file

[06:45:24]

sidd:

wagnerrp: yes i understand, but if i am watching tv for 4 hours and there is only 1 G of space left, what will happen when it encounters 100% disk full?

[06:45:44]

wagnerrp:

if its a 5hr move, youre boned

[06:45:53]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, the earliest show gets expired

[06:45:58]

wagnerrp:

s/move/movie/

[06:46:22]

sidd:

wagnerrp: hey, thats not good. what if i were running mythdora from a cd, will that not have a limit of what even the ram is?

[06:46:46]

sidd:

does it also behave the same way or do they have a time based split for it?

[06:47:19]

wagnerrp:

well... if youre actually using a ramdisk as your recording storage, you need to be committed

[06:47:30]

[R]:

i've never seen a livecd that runs a bakcend from said cd

[06:47:42]

[R]:

i thought all those livecds were just for frontends

[06:47:45]

sidd:

[R]: well, it does have the option

[06:47:54]

[R]:

that seems kinda stupid

[06:48:28]

sidd:

wagnerrp: define committed? something i can configure?

[06:48:38]

sidd:

i am planning to use a ramdisk

[06:48:51]

sidd:

and it will only be for the default group

[06:49:00]

sidd:

so only live tv will use it

[06:49:02]

wagnerrp:

committed: shanghai'd by men in white suits, and locked up in a mental institute

[06:49:18]

[R]:

don't forget the padded walls

[06:49:21]

sidd:

my other hdd will be the storage for serials

[06:49:28]

mchou:

that's a lot of ram :)

[06:49:45]

[R]:

sounds like a good way to kill your flash

[06:49:48]

mchou:

ram is more expensive than HDD these days

[06:49:55]

sidd:

wagnerrp: :) you mean it will not be used by the os right? doesn't creating the ramdisk sort of ensure that?

[06:50:26]

wagnerrp:

i mean, if youre running out of storage space, buy more hard drives

[06:50:43]

mchou:

[R]: the whole point of using ram disk is to AVOID flash writes

[06:50:54]

[R]:

you have enough ram to evne fit half an hour?

[06:50:57]

[R]:

what kind of crap are you watching

[06:51:06]

wagnerrp:

analog framegrabbers

[06:51:15]

wagnerrp:

(recall the mention of .nuvs?)

[06:51:29]

sidd:

wagnerrp: yes, that is an option. I have a pen drive that i use to boot into just for myth. for all normal purposes, it will be just watchin tv so that no one else needs to mess with my comp

[06:51:32]

[R]:

dont be hatin on framegrabbers... i love my old bttv

[06:51:37]

[R]:

i havent used it in ages though

[06:51:56]

sidd:

wagnerrp: where i am, no other option. no dvb-

[06:51:59]

sidd:

S or T

[06:52:20]

mchou:

sidd: there are much better ways of watching tv other than myth

[06:52:25]

sidd:

so if someone else wants to watch TV, they can just boot from the pen drive and my pc is safe

[06:52:28]

wagnerrp:

wow... two people wanting to use mythtv in india

[06:52:32]

oobe:

qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm

[06:53:06]

sidd:

mchou: yep, but I was kinda hoping to use myth. its cool

[06:53:12]

wagnerrp:

if you want to limit livetv to a certain amount of memory usage, you need to revert to 0.17

[06:53:15]

mchou:

omg

[06:53:26]

sidd:

wagnerrp: we are growing in numbers. something we know quite well how to :)

[06:53:31]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, youre going to be storing all livetv directly to the hard drive

[06:54:04]

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[06:54:16]

sidd:

wagnerrp: so 0.17 had an option of turning off using files for live tv or could it split at regular intervals?

[06:54:27]

mchou:

use ramdisk for /tmp or /var, but certainly not recordings

[06:54:32]

wagnerrp:

no, 0.17 and previous ran off a ring buffer

[06:54:47]

wagnerrp:

it used a pre-set amount of memory

[06:55:02]

sidd:

wagnerrp: and it could be not in GBs

[06:55:02]

wagnerrp:

and when it reached the end, it looped back to the beginning and started overwriting the old video

[06:55:35]

mchou:

why are we even discussing this?

[06:55:36]

sidd:

wagnerrp: that was a good way

[06:55:37]

oobe:

make a 6GB partion or whatever size you want them mount it /livetv then tell myth to use that for livetv

[06:55:47]

mchou:

it's so retarded

[06:55:48]

wagnerrp:

a necessary side effect was that the default setting limited you to mere minutes of storage

[06:55:52]

sidd:

oobe: and when i take my hdd with me?

[06:55:56]

wagnerrp:

which is why it was abandoned, almost four years ago

[06:56:02]

sidd:

wagnerrp: even for recording?

[06:56:02]

wagnerrp:

buy a hard drive and be done with it

[06:56:12]

oobe:

sidd, i guess

[06:57:08]

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[06:57:50]

sidd:

ok guys, that is not an option. there must be something i can do to watch myth from a pendrive based installation and not have it crashing everytime the space gets full.

[06:58:02]

wagnerrp:

not use myth

[06:58:14]

** mchou wonders wth is going on in india for someone to even ask this question **

[06:58:14]

wagnerrp:

or repartition the drive to give myth a bit of space to use

[06:58:40]

[R]:

are you just watching livetv or ar eyou recording also?

[06:59:05]

sidd:

wagnerrp: if the programs i watch are not more than 1/2 an hour and i ensure 1/2 an hour = <1G and i have 1G of free space, will it work?

[06:59:12]

sidd:

[R]: just watchin

[06:59:18]

sidd:

no recording required

[06:59:23]

[R]:

then why the hell are you using myth

[06:59:32]

mchou:

lol

[06:59:37]

wagnerrp:

are you so tight on space that you can only spare 1GB?

[06:59:42]

mchou:

that question was posed long ago

[06:59:46]

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[06:59:55]

wagnerrp:

by default, mythtv will not operate with less than 10GB dree

[06:59:56]

mchou:

[R]: [22:53:06] <sidd> mchou: yep, but I was kinda hoping to use myth. its cool

[07:00:02]

sidd:

[R]: because i like the way it gives a single interface to my tv tuner, my stored content and my music. (when i use my hdd)

[07:00:03]

mchou:

"cool"

[07:00:05]

[R]:

"cool"? wtf

[07:00:11]

mchou:

haha

[07:00:18]

mchou:

my reaction exactly

[07:00:29]

mchou:

cool is overrated

[07:00:37]

wagnerrp:

see if someone has hacked together some plugin for xmbc to use tvtime

[07:00:43]

sidd:

mchou: yep, why do you guys use it? am sure there are lots of other options

[07:00:47]

mchou:

it's so cool it's downright frezzing

[07:00:55]

mchou:

freezing*

[07:01:14]

mchou:

sidd: we use myth so we dont have to watch TV LIVE

[07:01:29]

mchou:

sidd: get the difference?

[07:01:46]

sidd:

mchou: i fail to see why it even _has_ a live tv module then

[07:01:56]

wagnerrp:

sidd: many developers say the same thing

[07:01:57]

sidd:

just use the recording feature

[07:02:11]

sidd:

wagnerrp: ok. let me see if i can make it work somehow.

[07:02:14]

justinh:

because some people still live in the 20th century :)

[07:02:19]

mchou:

sidd: that's only a sanity check to make sure you tuner is working properly

[07:02:31]

mchou:

your*

[07:02:36]

[R]:

well if i'm sitting on my couch doing nothing, and i have nothing good recorded

[07:02:38]

wagnerrp:

as mentioned, livetv *used* be considerably different from recordings

[07:02:38]

[R]:

i put on livetv

[07:02:41]

[R]:

like RIGHT NOW

[07:02:45]

sidd:

mchou: with channel changes, live recording and so many other features?

[07:02:51]

justinh:

let's not start the whole livetv vs no livetv debate here again.

[07:02:55]

wagnerrp:

however it is currently just a recording with a bit of extra glue to allow channel changes

[07:03:00]

sidd:

mchou: too much effort just to check the tuner

[07:03:10]

sidd:

there's got to be a way

[07:03:15]

mchou:

sidd: it's not, actually

[07:03:30]

mchou:

NO, go make your own way

[07:03:40]

sidd:

mchou: ok. that is still a possibility

[07:03:44]

mchou:

it's frigging retarded what you're asking

[07:04:04]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is NOT a possibility unless you dedicate a meaningful amount of hard drive space to it

[07:04:08]

justinh:

put it this way, if you don't have enough free space to use mythtv – or indeed can't meet any other requirement software might need – then it's clear. *Use* *something* *else*

[07:04:15]

mchou:

not to mention your reason for using it: "cool" factor

[07:04:24]

justinh:

cool, my ass

[07:04:50]

justinh:

I'm something of a mythtv advocate but I'd never call it 'cool'. Sheesh

[07:04:58]

sidd:

justinh: well, its a challenge. let me see if i can do something about it

[07:05:08]

mchou:

oh lorf

[07:05:14]

mchou:

lord*

[07:05:36]

mchou:

a solution to a problem that nobody has

[07:05:39]

justinh:

you're gonna end up with a very small HDD very very full in next to no time at all

[07:06:05]

sidd:

if i manage to hook up the live tv to use the ring buffer, what then?

[07:06:14]

justinh:

you won't

[07:06:14]

wagnerrp:

no, there is no ring buffer

[07:06:15]

sidd:

the ringbuffer is still being used in 0.21

[07:06:19]

wagnerrp:

there has not been for several years

[07:06:20]

justinh:

no it's not

[07:06:32]

wagnerrp:

the term 'ring buffer' just still remains in the logs because no one has bothered to change it

[07:06:34]

justinh:

the ring buffer was done away with in 0.20 IIRC

[07:06:35]

mchou:

sidd: people are still gonna to be able to mess your computer up

[07:07:00]

justinh:

since then every live tv programme recorded is its own file

[07:07:05]

sidd:

mchou: i know :(

[07:07:20]

wagnerrp:

if youre worried about people 'messing up your computer', dont let them touch it, its that simple

[07:07:30]

mchou:

wagnerrp: baloney

[07:07:45]

mchou:

there's reason why folks use unix

[07:07:52]

mchou:

it's called "accounts"

[07:08:02]

sidd:

wagnerrp: iin the settings it asks for the size of the ringbuffer.

[07:08:08]

wagnerrp:

yeah, and you can mess up a unix box just as well without an account

[07:08:18]

justinh:

sidd: that's a different thing

[07:08:31]

sidd:

justinh: why is that use? any idea?

[07:08:35]

justinh:

sidd: every program served up as 'live tv' now gets recorded to a new file

[07:08:46]

justinh:

not just one continuous file aka the ringbuffer

[07:09:16]

wagnerrp:

theres a big difference between someone running unix/linux, and someone running a properly secured, locked down box

[07:09:18]

sidd:

justinh: i understand that. but when it asks me to specify the ringbuffer in the settings page, what is that for?

[07:09:20]

justinh:

and that was because (l)users wanted to be able to keep stuff they'd been idly watching

[07:09:27]

wagnerrp:

and if you have physical access, all bets are off

[07:09:29]

justinh:

sidd: god only knows. I don't use livetv

[07:09:37]

sidd:

anyone else?

[07:09:49]

justinh:

sidd: put it this way, it's NOT what you think it is

[07:10:20]

sidd:

justinh: i get that. but if its there, i can rewrite the livetv code to use that instead of a file.

[07:10:31]

wagnerrp:

no, you cant

[07:10:43]

sidd:

wagnerrp: reason?

[07:10:43]

wagnerrp:

not without a LOT of work

[07:10:43]

** justinh laughs **

[07:10:49]

[R]:

lol

[07:10:51]

sidd:

wagnerrp: that's not a problem

[07:10:56]

justinh:

just use mythtv 0.18

[07:10:56]

wagnerrp:

that code simply doesnt exist

[07:11:01]

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[07:11:15]

wagnerrp:

you will have to port it over to QT4 from scratch

[07:11:25]

mchou:

omg

[07:11:31]

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[07:11:38]

mchou:

what kind of bullshit is this?

[07:11:42]

sidd:

wagnerrp: that's too much work.

[07:11:49]

mchou:

port to QT4??

[07:11:53]

mchou:

hahah

[07:11:54]

justinh:

there's probably some old ISOs in cecil's archive

[07:12:08]

mchou:

that's the biggest pile of BS I've ever heard

[07:12:13]

wagnerrp:

yes, the backend uses QT heavily

[07:12:16]

sidd:

but if i get to use a ringbuffer, even if i create it, thatn?

[07:12:22]

sidd:

then?

[07:12:41]

[R]:

sidd: if you rewrite myth to do what you want... then you've solved your problem

[07:12:44]

wagnerrp:

not just for UI rendering

[07:12:45]

sidd:

ok, i guess, i will work on that angle for sometime.

[07:12:50]

justinh:

sidd: the only way you'll be doing that is if you revert the massive changes brought about before 0.20

[07:12:54]

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[07:13:00]

mchou:

last time I checked you dont NEED to use QT4 primitives to write to a file in unix

[07:13:14]

wagnerrp:

no, but you do if you want to interface with the rest of mythtv

[07:13:20]

justinh:

unless you're some ****ing code ninja I suggest you do something more productive instead. Like go use something else

[07:13:28]

[R]:

in graphite the "please wait" appears to have a progress bar... but it doenst move... is it actually a progress bar?

[07:13:40]

wagnerrp:

if you want to use mythtv, give it sufficient hard drive space, its that simple

[07:13:45]

justinh:

[R]: no idea

[07:13:50]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, use xmbc and tvtime

[07:13:56]

[R]:

justinh: do you know what i'm talking about though?

[07:14:09]

justinh:

wagnerrp: no no no no NO! He must rewrite the app to suit his (silly) use case!

[07:14:15]

sidd:

justinh: :)

[07:14:20]

justinh:

[R]: yeah I know what you're talking about

[07:14:23]

sidd:

ok, it is just a point

[07:14:37]

[R]:

omg... the guide in graphite is freakin me out

[07:14:43]

justinh:

a pretty ****ing fundamental point

[07:14:58]

justinh:

[R]: the watch recordings screen freaked me out. It didn't stay

[07:16:38]

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[07:17:03]

justinh:

I'll be upgrading when 0.23 comes out I think

[07:17:37]

justinh:

sticking with 0.21 on my production system til I finish the new theme, which won't be any time soon

[07:18:02]

sidd:

ok, one more, in linux the current large file support is for what 4 G? does myth assume there will be no file more than that?

[07:18:20]

mchou:

hahah

[07:18:29]

mchou:

lfs support

[07:18:30]

justinh:

wtf?!

[07:18:46]

mchou:

what a you, a windos luser?

[07:18:51]

justinh:

people regularly create files way bigger than that

[07:19:17]

justinh:

some of my SDTV recordings top that :)

[07:19:17]

mchou:

even NTFS has exceeded that

[07:20:15]

mchou:

sidd: did you just wake come from a coma from which you succumbed in 1990?

[07:20:26]

wagnerrp:

large file support was for files >2GB, a 32-bit limitation from the 90's

[07:20:41]

wagnerrp:

your 4GB limit is an issue with the FAT filesystem on your flash drive

[07:21:17]

sidd:

mchou: how does myth detect program change?

[07:21:26]

wagnerrp:

program change?

[07:21:30]

mchou:

program change?

[07:21:35]

mchou:

wtf is that?

[07:21:36]

sidd:

i mean a split

[07:21:47]

wagnerrp:

as in, one show ending, and another starting?

[07:21:50]

[R]:

sidd: it knows when a program ends based on guide data

[07:21:52]

wagnerrp:

your scheduling data provides that

[07:21:53]

sidd:

how does it know when to create a new file?

[07:21:53]

justinh:

mythtv doesn't *detect* anything

[07:21:53]

sidd:

yes

[07:21:57]

justinh:

you need EPG data for that

[07:22:01]

sidd:

so if there is not guide data?

[07:22:09]

wagnerrp:

then mythtv is exactly worthless

[07:22:17]

wagnerrp:

you may as well just use your vcr

[07:22:20]

sidd:

will it consider run time as one program?

[07:22:22]

wagnerrp:

or more likely, the tuner on your tv

[07:22:23]

justinh:

can I just ask you how the hell you came to the conclusion mythtv is 'cool' when you've obviously done so little reading about it?!

[07:22:24]

sidd:

wagnerrp: oh, o.

[07:22:56]

sidd:

justinh: want to know more now!

[07:23:15]

justinh:

I'm still in the "it's not for YOU" camp

[07:23:25]

wagnerrp:

sidd: read the wiki

[07:23:53]

wagnerrp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview is a good place to start

[07:24:03]

wagnerrp:

specifically the points where it gives disk requirements

[07:24:10]

sidd:

wagnerrp: ok, thanks

[07:24:38]

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[07:27:42]

justinh:

arghh stupid time tracking system at work. keeps losing my bookings for last month

[07:29:13]

jblack:

Man, I so wish myth did rss feeds well. I just found http://www.videopodcasts.tv/category/21/Science

[07:29:39]

wagnerrp:

jblack: wait a couple months, its being worked on

[07:29:41]

Elwell:

Morning folks – Just noticed rustys tweet 'MythTV users/developers: what's the format for the streaminfo.xml file for an audio stream?' from twitter.com/somafm

[07:29:42]

justinh:

man, I so wish people wouldn't whine so much & did more coding

[07:29:57]

jblack:

justinh: touche.

[07:30:05]

Elwell:

can someone point me do where I'd find this and I'll reply?

[07:30:06]

justinh:

Elwell: well, they better ask the guy who invented mythstream

[07:30:23]

jblack:

Let me rephrase. Myth is fantastic. Thanks.

[07:30:34]

wagnerrp:

mythtv does audio streams?

[07:30:40]

Elwell:

justinh ah, that comes from a plugin?

[07:30:44]

justinh:

yup

[07:30:54]

justinh:

a 3rd party unsupported plugin called MythStream

[07:30:54]

Elwell:

explains why I couldn't see it locally :-)

[07:30:54]

wagnerrp:

and an outdated one at that

[07:31:02]

wagnerrp:

it hasnt been maintained since 0.20 has it?

[07:31:05]

iamlindoro:

Course, there's a new plugin...

[07:31:35]

jblack:

the mythstream plugin when I looked at it about 6 months ago didn't seem to be aging well.

[07:31:59]

justinh:

it looked old even when it was new, that one

[07:32:15]

justinh:

with its real time speculum analyser & all

[07:32:35]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/feedsubs.png

[07:32:50]

iamlindoro:

site won't resolve for me right now, but if it does for you...

[07:33:04]

Elwell:

oh and from the mythtv web frontpage 'mould' surely not 'mold' :-)

[07:33:11]

jblack:

I got a 410 actually.

[07:33:57]

jblack:

Wow. 410 "Gone". Don't see that one very often.

[07:34:09]

iamlindoro:

it'll be back

[07:34:17]

iamlindoro:

since I am absolutely sure it's paid up

[07:34:28]

wagnerrp:

well that site worked as recent as an hour ago

[07:35:08]

iamlindoro:

charged me on 11/16 so I'm paid for

[07:35:54]

** justinh submits a patch to spell MythCentre properly **

[07:36:30]

Elwell:

:-)

[07:37:28]

jblack:

yeah. "MethCentre" would be more proper.

[07:37:52]

iamlindoro:

domain reg is good until next year too, hmm

[07:37:55]

iamlindoro:

frickin' Yahoo

[07:38:26]

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[07:39:02]

justinh:

how's about 'Mepo went postal-wide' then? Has watermarks where MePo looks very angry & slaughters kittens in numerous different ways

[07:39:12]

justinh:

not so cute now huh

[07:39:36]

** iamlindoro goes to test some of these feeds on the new baby **

[07:39:43]

justinh:

iamlindoro: remind me why anybody bothered with mythui, what with all the demand for ported themes... :-(

[07:39:49]

iamlindoro:

heh

[07:40:14]

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[07:41:34]

iamlindoro:

ugh, superb, feedburner has their own media prefixes

[07:42:18]

jblack:

imagebin.com can help in a pinch.

[07:42:25]

jblack:

pardon, .org

[07:42:52]

iamlindoro:

nah, not *that* eager to answer questiosn about how soon I plan to share it ;)

[07:43:49]

jblack:

you're not already sharing?

[07:43:52]

jblack:

You're a tease!

[07:44:18]

iamlindoro:

nope, unlike some I'd rather it work as I want it to before wasting half my life trying to support it

[07:44:31]

iamlindoro:

since users tend not to get the idea of available source that isn't complete

[07:44:47]

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[07:44:52]

Elwell:

hmm – trac down?

[07:45:12]

justinh:

yeah they closed it

[07:45:18]

justinh:

ETOOMANYTICKETSAGAIN

[07:45:45]

justinh:

ow. really is down. or slow

[07:45:50]

justinh:

*again*

[07:46:34]

** jblack nods **

[07:46:51]

iamlindoro:

ah, site's back

[07:46:54]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/feedsubs.ogg

[07:47:02]

iamlindoro:

Actually, I need to make a better little tour

[07:47:31]

jblack:

As justin implied earlier, I can get off my lazy ass if I want it bad enough

[07:47:45]

justinh:

arghh I forgot my machine is too slow to play video

[07:48:12]

justinh:

or that it can't resolve the name. heh

[07:50:25]

iamlindoro:

Bah, spend some time making up a little tour and of course Istanbul crashes while trying to save.

[07:50:59]

jblack:

That looks nice

[07:51:13]

justinh:

it crashed when I saw tis developer demoing it on stage at a linux expo too

[07:51:28]

justinh:

so did Elisa, the app he was capturing. lol

[07:51:31]

wagnerrp:

should have named it constantinpole

[07:51:51]

justinh:

then I demoed mythtv. Guess what. It didn't crash. Not once in 15 minutes

[07:52:25]

justinh:

tip though – if you ever demo mythtv in front of a crowd, take a laptop or you'll be heckled

[07:52:33]

justinh:

wankers

[07:52:49]

justinh:

iamlindoro: still won't resolve here :(

[07:53:05]

jblack:

the .ogg url ?

[07:53:09]

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[07:53:20]

justinh:

yup

[07:53:27]

iamlindoro:

justinh, yeah, dead for me again too

[07:53:29]

jblack:

wfm

[07:53:37]

iamlindoro:

now I have the tour made up, and can't upload it

[07:54:26]

jblack:

I can reach the ogg at fecitfacta without a problem

[07:54:49]

justinh:

maybe there's a change needs to percolate through the tubes

[07:54:52]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, point of the plugin is that it's a Video RSS feed manager, but alos includes a search mode and site map mode, is 100% script extensible, and support both downloadable and web-only media. Meaning you could write a Hulu script, and iPlayer script, etc. Already have youtube, blip.tv, etc. grabbers

[07:55:02]

iamlindoro:

hopefully once it's released people will write others

[07:55:02]

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[07:55:15]

justinh:

only video rss?

[07:55:26]

iamlindoro:

justinh, ?

[07:55:47]

iamlindoro:

Well, it will theoretically support RSS of any form you like, but it would be defeating the purpose

[07:56:01]

jblack:

is it front end configuration + view, and backend lifting?

[07:56:10]

iamlindoro:

no, all work done on the frontend currently

[07:56:14]

justinh:

not that I really want an audio podcast client for mythtv

[07:56:37]

wagnerrp:

not really anything you could do to move it to the backend

[07:56:48]

iamlindoro:

justinh, would be pretty easy to extend it to handling audio and inserting in MythMusic, but no point at least until MM is rewritten

[07:56:57]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, Well, it probably will do just that

[07:57:05]

wagnerrp:

well i guess the rss downloads could be moved to a SG

[07:57:15]

iamlindoro:

discussion over the past few days has been to modify the IPTV recorder to handle requests to grab the media

[07:57:24]

iamlindoro:

it would just go to recordings

[07:57:31]

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[07:57:34]

iamlindoro:

with the plugin essentially being the "scheduler"

[07:57:49]

jblack:

That would be nice.

[07:57:52]

jblack:

add some feeds via the front end, and they just show up in recordings.

[07:58:01]

justinh:

lookin good. at 2fps on my desktop machine at work. lol

[07:58:27]

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[07:58:29]

justinh:

jblack: with appropriate category insertion etc ;-)

[07:58:55]

jblack:

Yeah, the devil's in the details.

[07:59:10]

iamlindoro:

the devil is in doing any work at all

[07:59:11]

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[07:59:21]

iamlindoro:

since the details people tend to be the folks who have never done one iota of work

[07:59:33]

justinh:

I wanna take some time off work & get stuck into some more coding & crap

[07:59:34]

jblack:

I can already hear people screaming "You can't possibly hope to take over the world without bandwidth liiting"

[07:59:45]

iamlindoro:

people's tendency to treat you like they deserve your work would be my number one reason for never releasing it at all

[08:00:43]

justinh:

which will probably be why you'll never see concept-0.1.tar.gz

[08:00:49]

jblack:

well, forget about them. Every little bit you do is a gift to humanity, because you're a nice guy.

[08:00:57]

iamlindoro:

pffft

[08:01:14]

justinh:

talking to a mate of mine on saturday – he's got a new OSS project. an RTOS

[08:01:57]

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[08:02:57]

justinh:

wonder whatever happened to the BBC's iPlayer plugin idea anyway

[08:02:57]

jblack:

i suppose he won't hae to deal with the common unwashed masses type user.

[08:03:29]

justinh:

that's what I said

[08:03:30]

iamlindoro:

http://rapidshare.com/files/317430734/MVN_tour.ogg

[08:03:33]

iamlindoro:

There, see if that works

[08:04:01]

justinh:

hahahah rapidshare

[08:04:03]

justinh:

:)

[08:04:14]

iamlindoro:

least I don't pay for the BW that way

[08:04:37]

justinh:

rar it up, put a password on it. like most the other videos on rapidshare :D

[08:05:18]

jblack:

http://jblack.linuxguru.net/~jblack/feedsubs.ogg

[08:05:36]

jblack:

and as soon as I can get tour up...

[08:05:38]

iamlindoro:

nah, that's not one I care to share, was just to demonstrate

[08:05:45]

jblack:

want me to rm it?

[08:05:48]

iamlindoro:

jblack, I have a site that works well, don't need hosting

[08:05:50]

iamlindoro:

but thanks

[08:06:01]

jblack:

Ok. I'll remove 'em.

[08:06:04]

iamlindoro:

(works well when it resolves, this is the first problem I've ever had with it)

[08:06:22]

justinh:

teh nices! :D

[08:07:04]

justinh:

OMG trailers without ducking about writing menu xml?! what planet were you on that day? ;-)

[08:07:10]

iamlindoro:

haha

[08:07:14]

iamlindoro:

yeah, exactly

[08:07:42]

iamlindoro:

suspect it'll be .0000005 seconds after I release it that someone writes parallel versions of each script that returns direct download links for all these sites

[08:07:55]

justinh:

not your problem

[08:07:59]

iamlindoro:

exactly

[08:08:47]

justinh:

with broadband speeds being what they are.. why bother ? ;-)

[08:10:00]

iamlindoro:

also expect people will get a kick out of the fact that it can download and play the downloadable stuff concurrently

[08:10:02]

jblack:

caching for when they're removed.

[08:10:28]

justinh:

jblack: I think the whole *point* about internet video is the fact it's so transient

[08:10:57]

justinh:

besides, youtube can never get rid of stuff quick enough. people keep putting it back

[08:11:11]

iamlindoro:

and the fact that it's a violation of terms of service and it's not our prerogative to decide what we get to keep because it might go away

[08:11:39]

jblack:

Oh, I'm thinking about youtube and people being silly.

[08:12:04]

jblack:

I'm thinking more of a problem I have with an audio podcast, this american life, where their feed consists strictly of the most recent show.

[08:12:31]

jblack:

As can be seen at http://feeds.thisamericanlife.org/talpodcast (xml feed)

[08:12:39]

justinh:

that's a bit cacka

[08:13:04]

jblack:

Yeah. It's retarded. Surprisingy, they're not the only feed that do that.

[08:13:09]

justinh:

my 'cast is like an ever expanding list. I've not made up my mind where to draw the line yet, though

[08:13:22]

jblack:

As it should be.

[08:13:57]

jblack:

Ironically, their shows are still there, at least the more recent ones are, they're just not in the feed.

[08:14:08]

justinh:

make your own aggregator ;-)

[08:14:58]

jblack:

The problem doesnt' affect me. I just instruct my readers to not expire expired things.

[08:15:29]

jblack:

solving the problem for others, i'm not sure of the legality of that. I imagine the feed itself is copyrighted.

[08:16:32]

justinh:

reminds me I've not looked at my stats for last month

[08:16:37]

jblack:

I'm sure there's some reason they do it that way. There's no way they haven't gotten umpteen zillion "You know your feed only shows your most recent show"

[08:16:52]

jblack:

what podcast do you make?

[08:16:57]

justinh:

bah only 5 and a half gig in november

[08:17:13]

justinh:

continuously mixed dance music ish

[08:17:34]

jblack:

why?

[08:17:50]

justinh:

because I can?

[08:18:14]

jblack:

That's a not a good answer!

[08:18:37]

justinh:

right now it's like sending a mixtape to friends

[08:18:42]

jblack:

Do you even like dance music?

[08:18:50]

justinh:

lol

[08:19:18]

** jblack can't imagine justinh bobbing his head to "What is love?" **

[08:19:22]

justinh:

would I slave over a 2 hour mix, finding new tracks & stuff to insert into it if I didn't like dance music?

[08:19:30]

justinh:

dee-lite? TUNE!

[08:19:58]

justinh:

I was never (and still am not) the archetypal dance music user

[08:20:27]

justinh:

or rocker. but that hasn't stopped me going to venues to enjoy music :)

[08:20:40]

** jblack looks behind his monitor for rod serling **

[08:21:01]

jblack:

Can I listen to your podcast?

[08:21:13]

justinh:

anyway the whole house music ethos was that it doesn't matter who you are / where you're from / how you dress

[08:21:16]

jblack:

If you like it, there must be something I missed

[08:21:29]

justinh:

at least it's *supposed* to have been that

[08:21:32]

iamlindoro:

Yay, there's a nice test, Ted Talks work perfectly in the little dickens

[08:22:17]

justinh:

jblack: I don't understand how it's such a shock that I like dance music.. or music infact. lol

[08:22:29]

justinh:

because I'm 'old' ?

[08:23:44]

jblack:

Not because you're 'old' (hell, I'm 37 going on 65 myself)...

[08:23:55]

justinh:

oh bollocks. what was I saying about stats? it's gone over & I've not even put out this months episode yet. somebody in germany downloading every episode 3 times

[08:24:26]

iamlindoro:

Ah, there's my ftp access back again

[08:24:34]

justinh:

must be a bad day to be a host

[08:25:02]

jblack:

The general consensus on dance music is that it's hollow, and designed for shallow people to bop to as they figure out which verbal line will succeed in bedding their dance partner

[08:25:12]

justinh:

whut?

[08:25:17]

justinh:

bedding .. dance partner?

[08:25:20]

** iamlindoro wonders whose consensus that is **

[08:25:31]

jblack:

Everyone!

[08:25:41]

justinh:

'pulling' is something that tends to be an incidental at the sort of places I like

[08:25:45]

iamlindoro:

... oookay..

[08:25:54]

justinh:

not the reason for going out. that would be the music

[08:26:27]

** jblack wonders if "clubs" in the US are different than the clubs in england **

[08:26:50]

justinh:

depends. we have 'nite clubs' here, and 'serious' dance music venues

[08:26:56]

justinh:

they're a universe apart

[08:27:53]

jblack:

a 'nite' club would be women wearing as little as possible, tiny $10 watered down drinks, and overly loud music where everyone is packed in tight?

[08:28:07]

justinh:

they're generally all like that

[08:28:23]

jblack:

Paris hilton type crap

[08:28:23]

iamlindoro:

what a horribly up tight sounding attitude

[08:28:28]

justinh:

the difference mostly being in the kind of people who go, their attitude & the music played

[08:29:08]

jblack:

So you're saying there's subtypes...

[08:29:26]

justinh:

i.e. the place where poseurs go to pose & look down their noses at people or generally get drunk & act like assholes, to a soundtrack of commercial 'dance' and 'rnb' (read Beyonce et al)

[08:29:27]

jblack:

iamlindoro: maybe I'm just a horribly up tight individual.

[08:29:38]

iamlindoro:

Sure the way it sounds

[08:29:44]

jblack:

justinh: Yeah. That's what I thought all were.

[08:29:59]

justinh:

jblack: thankfully, they're not all like that :)

[08:30:22]

justinh:

the places I like are the complete opposite

[08:31:43]

jblack:

ok

[08:31:51]

jblack:

Where's this podcast?

[08:31:52]

justinh:

if I can go somewhere & not feel like I'm being judged for not wearing designer label gear and being slightly out of place because I've been bold enough to step outside my pigeon hole.. it's a good place

[08:31:52]

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[08:32:33]

jblack:

That is the _exact_ opposite of my understanding of dance clubs

[08:32:33]

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[08:32:53]

wagnerrp:

s/dance/night/

[08:33:48]

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[10:10:58]

JenZv:

hi all

[10:11:01]

JenZv:

<JenZv> cpg, is there a mythtv backend now in Amahi? (i'm talking to one of the developpers on google talk)

[10:11:01]

JenZv:

<cpg> yes

[10:11:02]

JenZv:

<cpg> not ont 100% one-click

[10:11:04]

JenZv:

<JenZv> super!

[10:11:06]

JenZv:

<cpg> one needs to run the mythtv setup to setup the video sources, the program guide, etc

[10:11:08]

JenZv:

<JenZv> no worries

[10:11:10]

JenZv:

<JenZv> another reason to use amahi soon :-)

[10:11:12]

JenZv:

<cpg> can you ask him to see if they can do a web based installer?

[10:11:36]

JenZv:

= a conversation i had in #amahi (they make a NAS+extra's) from a clean Fedora12 installation

[10:11:46]

JenZv:

i'm gonna use ubuntu+xbmc on my new HTPC

[10:11:50]

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[10:12:17]

JenZv:

but DarK`` told me there's a mythtv-frontend for XBMC

[10:17:09]

justinh:

wtf?

[10:18:32]

justinh:

you won't win any friends here saying you prefer XBMC over mythfrontend. it's not a supported use

[10:19:41]

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[10:21:13]

JenZv:

ok, sorry justinh , i'm new to this

[10:21:24]

JenZv:

i only knew XBMC on the old xbox1

[10:21:35]

JenZv:

i'm gonna set up a new htpc

[10:21:41]

JenZv:

and started talking to DarK`

[10:21:59]

justinh:

mythfrontend is the only fully integrated frontend solution to date

[10:22:14]

justinh:

and the only one supported here :)

[10:22:27]

JenZv:

gonna check it out, sorry but i'm new to this

[10:22:40]

DarK``:

justinh: xbmc doesnt have a mythfrontend, but a mythtv PLUGIN. So its able to communicate with the backend so u can watch recordings on your e.g. xbox

[10:22:52]

justinh:

DarK``: I know.

[10:22:56]

justinh:

we don't support that here

[10:23:01]

DarK``:

I know

[10:23:14]

JenZv:

gonna check out mythtv now

[10:23:35]

justinh:

wow. amahi is getting kinda erm.. less specialised

[10:23:36]

JenZv:

i only know xbmc, but if you tell me mythtv is as good (or better) than xbmc i'll give it a go

[10:23:51]

justinh:

depends what you want

[10:23:54]

JenZv:

indeed it's getting full blown

[10:23:56]

[Peter]:

JenZv: mythtv is better at TV.

[10:23:59]

justinh:

for TV features mythfrontend can't be beat

[10:24:12]

JenZv:

so do you guys use both,

[10:24:17]

[Peter]:

I do both.

[10:24:22]

DarK``:

me too

[10:24:25]

justinh:

I've never got XBMC to work on any machine

[10:24:32]

[Peter]:

o_O

[10:24:33]

JenZv:

i don't have digital tv yet and i don't want it,

[10:24:33]

justinh:

apart from back when it was XBOX media centre

[10:24:51]

justinh:

JenZv: so if you don't want TV... wth do you want mythtv for?

[10:25:25]

JenZv:

but i do want to capture one particular series for the wife

[10:25:33]

JenZv:

and use the epg for it

[10:26:55]

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[10:27:34]

JenZv:

btw: sorry if i affended anyone with my initial question

[10:27:48]

ivor:

you could always just run a backend, schedule with mythweb and then playback with whatever media device you preferred

[10:28:05]

[Peter]:

JenZv: no private messages, please.

[10:28:22]

** justinh laughs **

[10:28:32]

JenZv:

[Peter]: doing everything wrong i guess :-)

[10:28:36]

justinh:

old school eh [Peter] :-)

[10:28:55]

[Peter]:

justinh: I've been on IRC since 95 or so :)

[10:29:04]

justinh:

no unsolicited messages, JenZv. It's considered BAD etiquette. VERY BAD

[10:29:29]

justinh:

mostly because it's V. annoying

[10:29:48]

[Peter]:

and if you are active on a few channels you get boatloadsof it

[10:29:52]

justinh:

also because we're not just here for your personal benefit

[10:30:19]

ivor:

justinh: i thought we were all here to entertain you?

[10:30:39]

justinh:

and here, also because the channel is logged so the conversation/solution *might* actually be of some use to somebody in future

[10:31:16]

justinh:

on mythtvtalk.com I lost count of the number of people PMing me to be their personal support bitch

[10:32:14]

justinh:

[Peter]: now I have * MSGS on ignore :)

[10:32:33]

justinh:

what you cannot see cannot annoy :D

[10:33:34]

ivor:

having trouble concentrating on work today.... they're building a crane on the construction site outside the window!

[10:33:57]

justinh:

who's they? The scantily clad army of construction ladies?

[10:34:47]

ivor:

like chicks would make a crane being built any cooler. :)

[10:35:00]

ivor:

they've just bolted the cab on.

[10:35:24]

justinh:

hmmmm

[10:36:08]

** justinh wonders if the guy wanting HD acceleration on the Via EN12000 is really on a hiding to nothing **

[10:36:54]

ivor:

EN12000? CX700 chipset isn;t it?

[10:37:03]

ivor:

that's working now.

[10:37:25]

justinh:

mister "AGAIN lose video when skip back"

[10:37:44]

ivor:

for certain values of 'working'

[10:38:14]

justinh:

for your great pleasure invest harvest knowledge TV frontend enquire

[10:40:25]

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[10:41:22]

Elwell:

Q – Are there any supported USB dvb-S2 adaptors out there?

[10:41:58]

justinh:

see linuxtv.org's wiki

[10:42:17]

ivor:

justinh: ah cn700 not cx700, yeah that should work. sounds like a bit of a *cough* driver bug there. :)

[10:43:00]

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[10:43:53]

Elwell:

ivor / justinh

[10:43:54]

Elwell:

00:00.0 Host bridge: VIA Technologies, Inc. CN700/VN800/P4M800CE/Pro Host Bridge

[10:44:03]

** Elwell has one too **

[10:44:12]

ivor:

lucky you. :)

[10:44:23]

Elwell:

works fine for irssi

[10:44:26]

justinh:

lol

[10:44:50]

Elwell:

tis my current backend – not great but hey, its quiet

[10:44:54]

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[10:44:58]

Elwell:

and reasonable low power

[10:45:31]

klpt:

is there a way to make the built in dvd ripping tool send the finished files somewhere other than the root of the mythvideo search path?

[10:45:34]

Elwell:

but the problem is 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. CN700/P4M800 Pro/P4M800 CE/VN800 [S3 UniChrome Pro] (rev 01)

[10:45:43]

justinh:

my backend is dead quiet. from the livingroom I can't hear it at all

[10:45:54]

justinh:

klpt: not really.

[10:47:22]

klpt:

oh. that's rather irritating

[10:47:47]

justinh:

not for me

[10:47:55]

klpt:

i have things sorted into nice folders, and would like the ripper to send things into "incoming" so I can rename and sort things properly

[10:47:57]

justinh:

it's the logical place to put em

[10:48:13]

justinh:

and you're incapable of moving the files yourself? bless

[10:48:34]

klpt:

no, clearly not, if I want them to go into a temporary folder so i can move them manually later

[10:49:01]

klpt:

i wonder if there's something in the database that will redirect that...

[10:49:18]

justinh:

nope. and nobody here will condone manual db mangling

[10:49:56]

klpt:

omg, touching the database. the world's gonna end. :P

[10:50:44]

justinh:

more like "help, I messed with stuff I don't understand & now everything's broken beyond recognition"

[10:50:54]

justinh:

and "I have no backup. HELP!"

[10:50:56]

klpt:

heh. it's not rocket science to make a db backeup

[10:51:13]

justinh:

you'd be surprised how many people mess up things so bad

[10:51:28]

klpt:

it's also not that bad to just reset the database and start over.

[10:51:35]

justinh:

so by default nobody gets credited with having a clue ;-)

[10:51:39]

klpt:

it's not like your recordings are worth anything

[10:51:46]

justinh:

klpt: oh no, that's never an option with these guys

[10:52:11]

justinh:

every byte is sacred. makes you wonder if they're SO sacred why they're so ready to risk it all in the 1st place...

[10:52:19]

klpt:

meh. i find that configuring mythtv is the least onerous part of setting up a frontend. usually it's getting all the hardware and drivers to play nice

[10:52:32]

justinh:

yup

[10:52:48]

justinh:

preaching to the choir here :D

[10:53:10]

klpt:

haha. yeah. i spent about 1.5 hrs the other day mucking around with custom modelines to make the damn overscan go away

[10:53:14]

klpt:

that wasn't my idea of a party

[10:53:38]

klpt:

in any case

[10:53:42]

justinh:

lol. I wasted days trying to make a mode for nvidia tvout to scale & fit my analogue TV

[10:53:57]

justinh:

yeah, I thought modelines would affect the tvout. whoops

[10:54:14]

klpt:

nope. the modelines are predetermined by the tv out's encoder :)

[10:54:24]

klpt:

that's why i switched from component to hdmi

[10:54:38]

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[10:54:47]

klpt:

luckily my CRT has a digital input

[10:54:52]

** Elwell now has some transistors and dead vga cables to hack up a RGB scart **

[10:54:53]

justinh:

I don't mind overscan as long as it's y'know.. like what a set top box would output

[10:55:13]

justinh:

not the stupid amounts video cards spew out

[10:55:23]

klpt:

eh. mine was a bit obscene. i also wanted to use the myth box as a browser via vnc to show people things on the web

[10:55:26]

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[10:55:51]

klpt:

and the overscan was bad enough that I didn't have any navigation buttons in firefox

[10:56:11]

klpt:

the biggest problem being finding the "close" button when flash soaks up keyboard shortcuts

[10:56:34]

justinh:

flashblock ftw

[10:57:23]

klpt:

yeah, that's nice except when the content you're trying to show people *is* the flash :)

[10:57:37]

klpt:

huh. so i'm doing a test dvd rip

[10:57:46]

justinh:

that's why I have a windows machine

[10:57:46]

klpt:

it pulled all the files and still shows a transcoding progress bar

[10:58:02]

klpt:

but I can't find any cpu that's busy

[10:58:08]

klpt:

but the progress bar is moving

[10:58:12]

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[10:58:49]

klpt:

yeah, but my windows box doesn't have a big screen and i'm too lazy to switch between my laptop and the myth box on the tv

[10:59:12]

klpt:

don't want to go fishing for cables, and i only have one hdmi input

[10:59:21]

klpt:

easier to just vnc in to the myth box and use that

[10:59:32]

klpt:

or synergy, actually

[11:00:10]

klpt:

hm. i wonder if there's any documentation on the mythvideo source code. i might want to patch it to let me change the rip path

[11:00:19]

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[11:01:10]

justinh:

prolly just chooses the video root dir

[11:01:42]

klpt:

yeah, but i've never mucked with the mythplugins source code before. it's always fun diving in to someone else's code not knowing how it's supposed to work before you get started

[11:01:49]

klpt:

it's not terrible... but just takes a little while

[11:03:10]

klpt:

and it always freaks me out to see code designed to run on platforms that actually have a lot of memory

[11:03:45]

klpt:

"omg, that's a 1M array, holy cow"

[11:04:38]

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[11:05:19]

justinh:

oo looks like my patch for the uk-WinterHill file was accepted :)

[11:05:54]

klpt:

//www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger.kernel.org/msg12830.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-media@vger. . . . sg12830.html

[11:05:56]

klpt:

?

[11:06:36]

klpt:

i should probably figure out how i'm going to keep my myth system recording after my cableco decides analog channels are a waste of bandwidth

[11:06:39]

deaman:

with 0.22 is it possible to transcode a DVB-T h.264 recording and keep the subtitles?

[11:07:25]

justinh:

deaman: nope

[11:07:42]

justinh:

it's not possible to keep any subtitles or non-av streams using mythtranscode

[11:08:26]

justinh:

deaman: wtf would you turn h.264 into? it doesn't get any more efficient

[11:09:17]

deaman:

Norwegian TV is notoriously late so I set everything to overrun for 20min. it adds up, so I was investigating using transcode to edit the recordings.

[11:09:39]

justinh:

ah. don't think 'lossless' works on h.264 anyway

[11:09:44]

deaman:

nope

[11:10:16]

justinh:

you might be able to do something with cat in a script, to the nearest keyframe or whatever

[11:10:36]

justinh:

mpeg files are eminently choppable

[11:11:13]

klpt:

huh. that might explain it – 06:10:04: Error: Exiting runTranscode(1) transcode exit code: 1

[11:12:19]

klpt:

is there someplace to look for further explanation of the crash? when I run the command that mtd spat out in its log file from the command line, it seemed to work just fine

[11:12:23]

deaman:

ok, I found this http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/380992 in the archives, not sure my itch is that great ;)

[11:13:13]

deaman:

thanks for the confirmation that it can't be made to work by settings alone, saved me some time.

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[11:40:13]

antgel:

is #mythtv logged anywhere?

[11:40:18]

antgel:

public

[11:40:27]

justinh:

nope

[11:42:06]

justinh:

not logged anywhere AFAIK

[11:44:44]

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[11:45:10]

klpt:

Can I run mtd on the backend and have the backend do the heavy lifting of dvd transcoding?

[11:45:13]

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[11:45:54]

klpt:

aha, I can

[11:46:07]

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[11:48:27]

klpt:

is the transcode program multithreaded?

[11:49:13]

justinh:

nope

[11:49:57]

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[11:50:15]

sid3windr:

you can run multiple transcoders at the same time if you want multicore usage :>

[11:50:58]

klpt:

eh. i'm never going to be ripping more than one DVD at a time

[11:51:37]

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[11:53:49]

sid3windr:

why not?!

[11:53:51]

sid3windr:

:>

[11:57:31]

klpt:

because i don't need to?

[11:57:43]

klpt:

most of my collection is already ripped

[11:57:48]

klpt:

so i'll only be ripping new stuff

[11:57:54]

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[12:00:08]

klpt:

argh. i think my dvd drive is unhappy. it's making read errors and such on discs all my other drives read. and I don't know where to buy silver bezel drives anymore. sad :(

[12:04:34]

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[12:21:49]

Saviq:

hi all, is there a way to transcode HD recordings losslessly? just as mythtranscode --mpeg2 does for SD streams?

[12:22:02]

Saviq:

I really just want to get rid of commercial breaks

[12:22:12]

justinh:

Saviq: only mpeg2 AFAIK

[12:22:15]

justinh:

not h.264

[12:22:58]

ivor:

until someone writes the code

[12:23:16]

Saviq:

k, thanks

[12:23:30]

justinh:

"it could be you!" ;-)

[12:23:45]

ivor:

time

[12:24:20]

ivor:

argh. lazy keyboard. /time/no time/

[12:24:45]

justinh:

ivor: didn't mean you specifically ;-)

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[13:04:17]

cityLights:

o, hi all. say where does one buy a pvr-500 these days? I seek it to do PAL

[13:06:34]

justinh:

ebay?

[13:06:57]

cityLights:

no stores?

[13:07:20]

cityLights:

is there a second hand forum anyone here know?

[13:07:32]

cityLights:

I am kind of favoring spanish sites

[13:11:34]

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[13:14:37]

mzb:

I (currently) have jobs set to run overnight. If I watch a show *before* it's transcoded, the "watched" flag gets cleared.

[13:14:52]

mzb:

I can't see the sense in this.

[13:15:06]

mzb:

Would this be classed as a bug?

[13:15:11]

justinh:

I can see the other side

[13:15:21]

mzb:

pls tell me :)

[13:15:27]

justinh:

why not reset the watched flag – you've not watched the transcoded version

[13:15:41]

mzb:

still doesn't make sense ;)

[13:15:55]

justinh:

I *know* it defies logic to the likes of us.. but that kind of thing accounts for a lot of mythtv's 'features'

[13:16:05]

mzb:

hmm

[13:16:14]

mzb:

ok, sounds like it needs a bug report

[13:16:36]

mzb:

I'll do a security patrol and then see what I can do

[13:17:05]

justinh:

can't imagine mythtranscode actually sets out & flips the flag though

[13:17:14]

justinh:

but I guess it must be doing that

[13:17:52]

mzb:

I didn't notice it until fairly recently

[13:17:52]

mzb:

but it is annoying

[13:17:52]

mzb:

(WAF--;))

[13:18:04]

justinh:

first I've heard of it

[13:18:47]

mzb:

it's regardless of the transcode type

[13:19:21]

mzb:

I *think* what happens is the flag is cleared by mythtranscode

[13:19:28]

mzb:

that simple

[13:19:28]

justinh:

here it is

[13:19:30]

justinh:

query.bindValue(":WATCHED", "0");

[13:19:42]

justinh:

line 993 in main.cpp of mythtranscode

[13:19:49]

mzb:

but I don't recall it happening (say) a year ago

[13:20:01]

mzb:

that doesn't mean much to me

[13:20:13]

justinh:

mzb: part of an update query

[13:20:23]

justinh:

update recorded blah blah

[13:20:31]

justinh:

so that'd be what's doing the deed I expect

[13:20:31]

mzb:

ah

[13:20:43]

mzb:

ok, gotcha

[13:20:52]

justinh:

you piqued my interest so I deeked into the code :)

[13:21:00]

mzb:

thank you

[13:21:38]

mzb:

I'll include that in my bug report after my "security patrol"

[13:21:59]

justinh:

it was put in for a reason I guess.. logic works a different way in his country ;-)

[13:22:04]

mzb:

(got to keep rabbits and snails out of the vegie garden, etc;)

[13:22:33]

mzb:

yes, agreed .. I just can't see the logic in changing (or setting) the current state of the flag

[13:22:38]

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[13:22:53]

mzb:

... that's not mythtranscode's job (or related to it)

[13:23:07]

justinh:

I think there's the reasoning that it's effectively a different file/length .. thus ...

[13:23:20]

justinh:

a bit pedantic if you ask me

[13:23:36]

justinh:

which nobody did, I know but that's not how I work :D

[13:23:56]

mzb:

err ... kinda ... yeah ... but why bother?

[13:24:28]

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[13:24:38]

mzb:

"humans" are involved in viewing the content ... not automatons ;)

[13:25:07]

justinh:

I might be wrong of course

[13:25:16]

mzb:

"ooh ... I'd like to see that again ... perhaps it doesn't have ads or it's a lower resolution!" ;))

[13:25:30]

mzb:

I just can't see any reasonable logic for it

[13:26:07]

justinh:

stuartm (gbee) committed it 3 years ago

[13:26:59]

mzb:

odd ... I seriously don't recall seeing it's effects a year ago

[13:26:59]

justinh:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/11138

[13:27:14]

justinh:

that part of the code hasn't changed in all that time

[13:27:21]

mzb:

np ... I'll submit a bug report and see what happens

[13:27:28]

justinh:

and to me it looks like that's what happens

[13:27:59]

mzb:

brb5 (snails watch out! .... I'm coming for you now!!!)

[13:28:37]

justinh:

another argument might be we've just transcoded it – why have it on the danger (i.e. to be autoexpired) list already

[13:29:28]

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[13:33:44]

mzb:

err

[13:34:13]

mzb:

but if I've marked it as watched (even automatically) ....

[13:34:15]

mzb:

nm

[13:38:48]

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[13:38:59]

mzb:

oh dear ... maybe I need to submit a ticket to correct the "TicketHowTo" wiki as well? :)))

[13:39:45]

mzb:

hmm ... nothing loading

[13:39:45]

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[13:41:08]

mzb:

server responds to pings, but svn requests dying ... busy?

[13:41:40]

mzb:

gets there :|

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[13:48:18]

mzb:

ticket/7718

[13:49:26]

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[13:49:46]

mzb:

hmm ... that old. Might need to update before Christmas ;))

[13:50:43]

mzb:

gnite all

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metalac:

hey guys, hvr-2250 or hdhomerun? are there any differences in what channels each can recieve? no, right?

[17:44:33]

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[17:44:59]

metalac:

and also on bootup i'm told that my nvidia card has 256mb of RAM, in nvidia-settings it says 512mb. Which can I trust more?

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martmyth is now known as mart

[17:57:11]

mart is now known as mart1

[17:57:18]

mart1:

hi there

[17:58:01]

mart1:

Just installed 0.22, from fresh. Mythbuntu. I have trouble downloading icons with mythtv-setup

[17:58:27]

metalac:

is your connection ok?

[17:58:39]

mart1:

Some of them are found but not configured, not shown, some other I have some suggestion but I cannot select any of them

[17:58:46]

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[17:59:01]

metalac:

hmm, never saw an issue like that

[17:59:03]

mart1:

they appear in a green rectangle and I have the choice to search or skip ...

[17:59:31]

mart1:

I used to have the main ones I wanted with 0.21

[18:00:31]

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[18:00:39]

mart1:

If I select a channel and tell mythtv-setup to "download the icon". It does so, no error, but then nothing in the channel editor screen.

[18:01:22]

mart1:

or, if it does not find it, it makes suggestions as it's meant to, but there I don't know how to browse and select the suggestion (GUI issue)

[18:02:28]

Dagmar:

bug report filling out time

[18:03:27]

mart1:

ok :)

[18:03:56]

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[18:06:18]

justinh:

I just let my xmltv grabber get the icons

[18:08:02]

mart1:

well my grabber won't download any icon

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[18:40:10]

wagnerrp:

metalac: those cards are both atcs/clearqam tuners

[18:40:17]

wagnerrp:

they will receive exactly the same channels

[18:40:32]

wagnerrp:

the only difference being different in tuner quality, for which i have no idea

[18:40:32]

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[18:40:54]

wagnerrp:

the 2250 also includes analog encoders, but for which there are currently no linux drivers

[18:41:29]

wagnerrp:

your graphics card lists 256MB in the BIOS and 512MB in nvidia-settings because it has some thing called 'turbo-cache'

[18:41:32]

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[18:41:51]

wagnerrp:

it pulls some amount of system memory once the drivers get activated to control that operation

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[18:49:17]

metalac:

wagnerrp: thanks for the info

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[18:54:20]

thansen:

has anyone in here successfully sent ac3 passthru via a usb sound card?

[18:54:44]

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[19:12:08]

npm:

using mythtv-backend-0.22–2.fc12.x86_64 mythtv-0.22–2.fc12.x86_64 etc, whenever i try to access live tv i get error message: "Error: MythTV is using all inputs, but there are no active recordings?" (note: /dev/dvb/adapter0/: crw-rw----+ 1 root video 212, 1 2009-12–06 23:52 demux0 // crw-rw----+ 1 root video 212, 2 2009-12–06 23:52 dvr0 // crw-rw----+ 1 root video 212, 0 2009-12–06 23:52 frontend0 // crw-rw----+ 1 root video 212, 3 2009

[19:12:56]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is in the group 'video'?

[19:13:08]

wagnerrp:

youre sure no program has locked the tuner and left it hanging?

[19:13:16]

wagnerrp:

youve checked the backend logs for a possible error?

[19:14:53]

npm:

2009-12–06 02:32:35.903 Configuration::Load – Error parsing: /etc/mythtv/config.xml at line: 1 column: 1 --> this happens from an empty (signle comment config.xml file)

[19:15:26]

npm:

yeah it's a perms problms : 2009-12–06 02:42:57.635 MythSocket(23ff0e0:22): readStringList: Error, timed out after 30000 ms.

[19:15:27]

npm:

2009-12–06 02:42:57.731 MainServer, Error: Failed to open master server socket, timeout

[19:15:52]

npm:

the backend is running as root

[19:16:42]

npm:

(i'm just running this stuff on f12, by installing and running and hoping mythtv-setup took care of stuff

[19:17:02]

npm:

so the part about group 'video' was as installed

[19:17:10]

justinh:

hoping? it's the guy setting it up who does the taking care of stuff

[19:17:47]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup should create the proper config file in the proper place

[19:17:49]

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[19:17:51]

npm:

well i hope it works, and then i try to get things working, and if i fail i continue to run media center on my laptop :-)

[19:17:56]

wagnerrp:

but ONLY if youre running it as the same user a the backend operates as

[19:18:08]

wagnerrp:

and ONLY if your distro isnt doing anything funky when it runs mythbackend

[19:18:20]

npm:

distro is stock f12

[19:18:40]

wagnerrp:

i dont know anything about f12

[19:18:53]

npm:

fedora 12 x86_64 on phenomII 965

[19:19:18]

wagnerrp:

and the architecture and processor are pretty much meaningless

[19:19:20]

Josh_Borke:

npm: mythtv 0.22 works fine from rpmfusion on f12

[19:19:51]

npm:

that's where i got mine. "fine" includes several kernel panics?

[19:20:16]

Josh_Borke:

npm: nope

[19:20:26]

Dagmar:

tested your RAM recently?

[19:20:49]

npm:

(caused by trying out mythbuntu skin and vesa-experimetnal-drivers and OpenGL ... now back to Qt)

[19:20:49]

Dagmar:

Userspace stuff typically doesn't cause kernel panics. That's somewhat the point of having a kernel.

[19:20:53]

Josh_Borke:

npm: that error message is because you have other processes setting the permissions on /dev/video and /dev/adapter*

[19:20:54]

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[19:21:04]

npm:

has nothing to do with ram, i have a stack of 50 kernel dumps to prove it :-)

[19:21:14]

justinh:

50?!

[19:21:19]

npm:

yeah

[19:21:23]

Dagmar:

That doesnt' actually prove that

[19:21:25]

justinh:

FWIW I'd be debugging that before playing mythtv

[19:21:39]

npm:

well new video card, new box, new linux, new everything

[19:21:41]

Dagmar:

If you've had fifty kernel panics, you need to vet the machine

[19:21:45]

Josh_Borke:

npm: could it be the 'vesa-experimental-drivers' ?

[19:21:47]

Dagmar:

Something isn't right with it

[19:21:51]

Dagmar:

Yeah, I'm with Josh

[19:21:56]

npm:

no i just uninstall vesa-experimental

[19:22:05]

npm:

and go back to not using OpenGL in mythtv

[19:22:07]

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[19:22:56]

Josh_Borke:

npm: mythtv has never caused me a kernel panic

[19:22:59]

npm:

anyways, i'll wait for a few weeks/months till they get a better r600 driver

[19:23:14]

Dagmar:

Good lord why bother

[19:23:34]

Dagmar:

I'd spend the thirty bucks to just get an nVidia 8300 or something

[19:23:40]

npm:

because that's what you get for using integrated mobo graphics

[19:23:42]

Dagmar:

Just to be done with the driver issues

[19:24:06]

npm:

i like the quiet and the power savings

[19:24:18]

npm:

and a radeon 3300 is perfectly fine

[19:24:40]

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[19:24:51]

Dagmar:

Yes, it's obviously a fine choice as it comes with a regular supply of kernel panics.

[19:25:47]

Josh_Borke:

npm: simplest solution for your access problems is to add the user running myth to the video group

[19:25:48]

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[19:25:58]

npm:

that's what i get for messing with the stock install and trying to get latest AMD OpenGL stuff

[19:26:26]

npm:

Josh_Borke: thanks.. excellent advice

[19:26:49]

Josh_Borke:

but you will undoubtedly have other problems. make sure selinux is in permissive

[19:27:15]

npm:

at some point the latest cool mobos with integrated graphics (which are just fine these days, snobs!) will get fully supported in linux

[19:27:28]

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[19:27:35]

wagnerrp:

npm: not with your chip

[19:27:44]

wagnerrp:

ATI has basically decided to abandon it

[19:27:57]

wagnerrp:

and start supporting hardware acceleration with the 4xxx series and better

[19:28:04]

npm:

so i'm not worried nor will i buy some extra hardware. i already spent the money on the hauppauge 1250

[19:28:22]

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[19:28:27]

npm:

the 785 seems like it's not "abandoning" the 790GX

[19:28:56]

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[19:29:22]

npm:

and there's plenty of target systems on uatx boards w/ integrated graphics itching to become little vdr toasters... thus relevant for myth

[19:29:45]

justinh:

good luck with that then

[19:30:32]

npm:

hey i'm the guy that helped directv get their stupid dvr using less memory and only crashing once every half an hour instead of every five minutes... i've had worse

[19:31:18]

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[19:31:58]

npm:

and my "commercial skipping" is nicer than mythtv's: http://nielsmayer.com/prototype-11-17-2009.jpg (was looking into integrating it)

[19:33:16]

Josh_Borke:

yous hould

[19:33:22]

wagnerrp:

link doesnt work

[19:33:24]

Dagmar:

Do it

[19:33:37]

Dagmar:

Right now the commflagger is useful as a "starting point"

[19:33:42]

Dagmar:

It can't be trusted

[19:34:55]

Dagmar:

I'm missing about 10m from last night's broadcast of Alice because it somehow ran anyway (pretty sure that was my fault) and the cleanup transcode followed the cutlist I didn't expect

[19:35:25]

Dagmar:

I *think* anyway. I'm still looking into it. Could be another cooked mpeg issue

[19:35:34]

wagnerrp:

thats right, alice was on last night

[19:35:41]

npm:

my link didn't work? ??

[19:35:48]

Dagmar:

...and both parts again tonight thankfully

[19:35:50]

npm:

weird

[19:36:33]

wagnerrp:

i need to rerecord venture brothers... robot chicken ran 10 minutes long last night

[19:36:52]

wagnerrp:

(i checked and my clock is fine)

[19:37:11]

cityLights:

where does one buy a pvr-500 these days? I seek it to do PAL

[19:37:21]

cityLights:

is ebay the only option?

[19:37:29]

wagnerrp:

PAL? dont know. us NTSC users have to use ebay

[19:37:32]

npm:

someone got it working according to the logs @ 11:36

[19:37:36]

wagnerrp:

but you may still be able to find them in stores

[19:37:42]

justinh:

Dagmar: commflagging can only ever be as good as its algorithms. nobody's even touched the commflagger for years

[19:38:06]

Dagmar:

justinh: His link worked for me

[19:38:19]

Dagmar:

He seems to be looking at more things than the commflagger currently does

[19:38:20]

justinh:

what use is audio commflagging anyway?

[19:38:31]

Dagmar:

Uhh... come again?

[19:38:41]

Dagmar:

You don't notice that things tend to go _silent_ for a moment?

[19:38:46]

wagnerrp:

oh, i fell prey to beirdo's mixing of dash characters

[19:39:19]

npm:

i think it helps to have a visual... audio is the best way to augment commflagging

[19:39:22]

Dagmar:

justinh: If you watched more sci-fi horror you'd know the commflagger LOOOVES to hit on scenes where people are crawling around in the dark

[19:39:38]

justinh:

if I ever bothered commflagging

[19:40:05]

wagnerrp:

it ALWAYS bombs on heroes

[19:40:07]

Dagmar:

What it gave me for one horror movie back in October might as well have been randomly selected chunks

[19:40:07]

justinh:

FA on commercial channels worth watching here :)

[19:40:18]

wagnerrp:

ive never yet had it properly flag one of those

[19:40:25]

Dagmar:

It hates the intro I think

[19:40:35]

justinh:

where it falls down here is that commercial channels don't go to black for breaks

[19:40:45]

justinh:

we're lucky if the logo is taken off

[19:40:53]

npm:

well it's not the top goal of my work. the thing is, you can publish analysis information of copyrighted material (just pointers into the copyrighted material)

[19:41:10]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i frequently get issues when they go to black, go to news blurb, and go to show with no transition

[19:41:14]

Dagmar:

With the way commercials are broadcast here, you can practically look for 30s-45s chunks of highly compressed (i.e., loud all the damn time) audio

[19:41:41]

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[19:41:45]

Dagmar:

TNT seriously flirts with fines from the FCC

[19:41:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i dont think the current flagger touches audio does it?

[19:41:45]

justinh:

ads on cable channels here are generally 6dB hotter than the programme content

[19:42:21]

justinh:

there's plenty scope for using external scripts for flagging

[19:42:28]

Dagmar:

Yeah they're not supposed to do that here, but the FCC has this ugly problem with assuming corporations will ever follow more than the exact letter of a directive.

[19:42:30]

justinh:

but I've never heard of anybody actually doing it

[19:42:35]

Dagmar:

They just compress the wondercrap out of the audio

[19:42:41]

justinh:

Dagmar: they're not sposed to allow that here either

[19:42:55]

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[19:43:02]

justinh:

there's even a limit on how much dynamic compression they're allowed to use

[19:43:12]

wagnerrp:

wasnt there some bill supposed to go through a couple months ago to deal with that?

[19:43:25]

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[19:43:56]

skd5aner:

Dagmar: RE loud commercials – FX is a violent offender of boosting the volume of commericals drastically louder too

[19:44:31]

Dagmar:

I deleted them.

[19:44:34]

justinh:

they're prolly just not engineering the content properly

[19:44:43]

Dagmar:

No, the people there are really assholes about it

[19:45:00]

npm:

well i should add my enveloper... but you can certainly get nice graphs of stuff http://nielsmayer.com/trainspodder-prototype.jpg

[19:45:06]

Dagmar:

They'll superimpose teasers for shows at the bottom of the screen with LOUD audio

[19:45:08]

skd5aner:

I saw there is legistlation going in regarding loud commercials a few months ago – let me see if I can dig it up

[19:46:25]

skd5aner:

CALM Act: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/110-h6209/show

[19:46:43]

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[19:46:54]

skd5aner:

"Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation"

[19:47:20]

skd5aner:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/ . . . to-sleep.ars

[19:47:25]

npm:

interesting... fortunately, a spectral segmenter would not care about loudness, just discontinuities in bands of frequency content

[19:47:30]

skd5aner:

of course – US based

[19:47:38]

justinh:

I thought animated banners were fun at first. now *hate* them

[19:48:06]

justinh:

like HELLO, we have DIGITAL TV. We can find out what's up next ourselves ta very much!

[19:48:11]

justinh:

aunts

[19:49:50]

Dagmar:

FX did one for a racing show that--I kid you not--had a stock car do a rev and burnout before leaving the screen

[19:50:01]

Dagmar:

You coulnd't hear a thing of the show when it was going

[19:50:41]

justinh:

thankfully the only commercial channels I watch have very predictable ad breaks :)

[19:50:48]

_abbenormal:

does a frontend need a livetv partion or is that only the backend

[19:50:56]

justinh:

ruh?

[19:51:05]

justinh:

frontends don't record tv

[19:51:13]

justinh:

if they did any recording they'd be a backend

[19:51:14]

_abbenormal:

thank you

[19:51:16]

skd5aner:

also, you don't need a livetv partition on anything

[19:51:22]

Dagmar:

_abbenormal: Put "executive overview" in the search box on the wiki and read the page that comes up

[19:51:23]

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[19:51:27]

Dagmar:

That explains how the thing works

[19:51:31]

skd5aner:

I believe you *can* have one, but it isn't required

[19:51:50]

skd5aner:

again – on the backend

[19:51:51]

_abbenormal:

ok i will

[19:51:56]

justinh:

skd5aner: oh you wouldn't believe the stuff some people try to do

[19:51:58]

Dagmar:

This thing is MUCH easier to manage if you take a few minutes to get a good idea of how the pieces fit together.

[19:52:01]

justinh:

live tv in ram disk..

[19:52:02]

_abbenormal:

thanks Dagmar

[19:52:03]

justinh:

etc. meh

[19:52:13]

Dagmar:

You wouldn't have even asked that question, had you seen the EO page

[19:52:21]

Dagmar:

You'dda just known.

[19:52:24]

skd5aner:

justinh: oh, I can believe it, doesn't mean I get it... but I believe it :)

[19:53:05]

** justinh nominates Dagmar to write the next spin of the user manual **

[19:53:18]

Dagmar:

I'm doing it a piece at a time already

[19:53:23]

_abbenormal:

i dont mind reading but just not sure where to look first so thanks again

[19:53:31]

wagnerrp:

you *can* have a LiveTV storagegroup

[19:53:38]

wagnerrp:

but if you dont, it defaults back to those in Default

[19:53:41]

Dagmar:

I seriously think that scope creep or not I'm going to wind up writing a page on WTF unix file permissions are about

[19:53:42]

justinh:

it's the kind of thing that should be in the docs, a little bit about how it works

[19:53:50]

Dagmar:

I'm kinda tired of seeing those same questions popping up over and oevr

[19:54:13]

Dagmar:

It's needless.

[19:54:20]

justinh:

makes a change from could not find master backend server on *buntu though eh

[19:54:29]

skd5aner:

I've got a file permissions Q for ya Dagmar... ;)

[19:54:30]

Dagmar:

10m of exposure to that information and a significant number of help requests would disappear

[19:54:32]

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[19:54:34]

justinh:

so glad they sorted that out

[19:55:09]

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[19:55:21]

Dagmar:

skd5aner: Well, without details I can only give the most popular answer

[19:55:27]

Dagmar:

"For god's sake use symbolic modes"

[19:55:30]

Dagmar:

;)

[19:56:01]

skd5aner:

permissions for /dev/raw1394 (aka, my firewire hooked up to my STB) – the ownership changes on every reboot to root.root

[19:56:10]

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[19:56:11]

Dagmar:

Yep. It's being created by udev

[19:56:18]

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[19:56:20]

Dagmar:

Look into the udev rules files

[19:56:36]

Dagmar:

They are where you set that so that the devices will be created with a specific ownership/mode

[19:56:37]

skd5aner:

yea, how can I get it so that it'll change group to mythtv permanently – udev rules, ok

[19:57:06]

skd5aner:

ok – I'll check it out, I looked (very briefly) when I first set it up a few weeks ago, but just never reboot so I said to heck with it

[19:57:09]

Dagmar:

Their syntax is a little odd, but not terribly hard to figure out

[19:57:13]

skd5aner:

thx

[19:57:41]

Dagmar:

The other possibility is pam_console is doing, but those are some very long odds.

[19:57:41]

skd5aner:

see, at least my permissions Q was a bit more intermediate :)

[19:57:53]

Dagmar:

For one, they'd probably be getting owned to whoever's logged in if it were pam_console

[19:58:05]

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[19:58:42]

Dagmar:

skd5aner: I swear more than half the time the permissions questions boil down to "I dont' really know what I'm doing, so I'm going to paste this chmod 0777 I found at it"

[19:58:53]

Dagmar:

...having no idea whatsover what the 0777 does

[19:59:03]

Dagmar:

That they're even typing the zero is a giveaway

[19:59:36]

skd5aner:

google is just as much as a curse as a blessing

[19:59:55]

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[20:00:09]

skd5aner:

opens doors that would have inhibited so many from getting over the learning curve of linux, at the same time, some of those people shouldn't have walked through the door to begin with

[20:00:39]

Dagmar:

People should be required to use text-only browsers for their first month on the internet.

[20:02:50]

npm:

actually being contrary sounds like a good idea, i think i'm gonna chmod /dev/dvb/adapter0/, and then add it to /etc/rc.local just to annoy dagmar

[20:03:05]

skd5aner:

honestly – speaking of CLI unix permissioning, have you have seen the CLI equivalent for Windows NTFS?

[20:03:27]

skd5aner:

it's exponentionally more difficult to use and understand

[20:03:40]

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[20:04:17]

Dagmar:

yes

[20:04:19]

skd5aner:

*nix file permisisoning is fairly basic and simplistic honestly in comparison to other platforms

[20:04:36]

Dagmar:

Well, Unix can *get* that complex

[20:04:41]

** ivor chmods his cup of tea **

[20:04:49]

Dagmar:

The difference is the CLI tools in Windows are for modifying ACLs

[20:04:54]

npm:

maybe something like: chmod a+rwx /dev/dvb /dev/dvb/adapter0 ; chmod a+rx /dev/dvb/*

[20:04:57]

skd5aner:

correct

[20:06:15]

Dagmar:

Honestly even that shouldnt be necessary anymore

[20:06:28]

Dagmar:

It's just fallen to users to set up udev rules that are useful

[20:06:36]

skd5aner:

my last "correct" was to Dagmar's statement

[20:06:40]

Dagmar:

No one bothered to mention this to the users.

[20:07:25]

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[20:10:59]

** dserban chowns / dserban **

[20:11:07]

** dserban chowns / dserban:users **

[20:11:19]

dserban:

there, my machine is MINE!

[20:11:43]

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[20:19:18]

superm1:

generally that's the responsibility of the distro to set up the rules in a sane way, not the user though...

[20:19:38]

superm1:

so if it's not right OOTB, i would say you should be filing a bug to that distro's bug tracker

[20:21:06]

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[20:27:44]

npm:

any suggestions for fixing this message coming out of console on frontend: 2009-12–07 12:24:40.532 MythContext: Connecting to backend server: 127.0.0.1:6543 (try 1 of 1) // 2009-12–07 12:24:34.445 backend: Connecting to master server: 127.0.0.1:6543 // 2009-12–07 12:24:34.527 Connected successfully // 2009-12–07 12:25:04.586 MythSocket(bbb460:22): readStringList: Error, timed out after 30000 ms. // 2009-12–07 12:25:04.687 MainServer, Err

[20:28:55]

npm:

oh doh. it's connecting on localhost not public ip

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[20:38:29]

npm:

ok got a lot farther this time, a channel listing, and console spewing "2009-12–07 12:38:22.686 NVP(0), Warning: Waited too long for decoder to pause"

[20:38:34]

npm:

any clues?

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npm:

what's this mean: 2009-12–07 13:09:08.309 playCtx, Error: Attempting to setup a player, but it already exists.

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[21:10:38]

npm:

when no player was setup

[21:12:42]

sphery_ is now known as sphery

[21:15:28]

dserban:

s-p-l-i-t-n-e-s-s

[21:15:52]

wagnerrp:

just a small one

[21:18:57]

** npm realizes errors of his ways... redoes setup again **

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[21:30:33]

skd5aner:

bored and browsing the wiki...

[21:31:22]

skd5aner:

was reading the article on myth on windows, and the first sentence says: "MythTV runs and is officially supported on Windows but for legal reasons an official exe is not distributed"

[21:31:29]

skd5aner:

what "legal" reason would those be?

[21:31:36]

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[21:32:16]

iamlindoro:

for the same reason we dont' distribute any binaries-- aren't interested in having people come after us for patent and/or intellectual property violations

[21:32:18]

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[21:32:36]

iamlindoro:

It's a thin veil of protection, but one noetheless

[21:32:42]

iamlindoro:

er nonetheless

[21:32:51]

skd5aner:

for licensing of a packager?

[21:32:57]

iamlindoro:

no

[21:33:09]

iamlindoro:

codecs, guide grid, etc.

[21:33:22]

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[21:33:22]

skd5aner:

ah, generic software patents? :P

[21:34:17]

skd5aner:

out of curiosity, how would not packaging it as a binary be any more or less seen as a violation of patents/IP versus just offering the source? Just curious

[21:34:42]

AndyCap:

skd5aner: patent insanity. :P

[21:34:50]

skd5aner:

I mean – I would think that patent/IP trolls wouldn't really differentiate would they?

[21:34:54]

iamlindoro:

because multiple of the libraries in question are external to myth

[21:34:59]

iamlindoro:

not all of them, but multiple

[21:35:17]

skd5aner:

OK – that makes a little more sense I suppose

[21:35:31]

skd5aner:

barely, but I follow

[21:35:34]

iamlindoro:

I wonder how much further ahead myth would be if all the people who wanted to discuss the rules put that effort in to writing patches

[21:35:45]

AndyCap:

iamlindoro: seriously though, does anyone have a patent on guide grids?

[21:35:59]

iamlindoro:

AndyCap, yes, TiVo

[21:36:02]

skd5aner:

AndyCap: honestly, I can almost assure you that some does!

[21:36:08]

AndyCap:

crikey

[21:36:25]

iamlindoro:

actually, it may be Gemstar

[21:36:25]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: I'd be surprised if someone owned it before Tivo, unless Tivo purchased it

[21:36:30]

iamlindoro:

they just sued TiVo

[21:36:44]

skd5aner:

yea, I think Gemstar is correct

[21:37:28]

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[21:37:54]

infradude:

hi, is there anybody can help me about "serial remote controller" ?

[21:37:56]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: was your "discuss rules" comment directed towards me? I honestly as just curious what legal implications packaging an .exe had for a FOSS project like Myth

[21:38:31]

iamlindoro:

skd5aner, Not at you, just in general-- there is a constant onslaught of people who want to argue why the rules are as they are, and explaining it, then arguing with them is really frustrating

[21:38:34]

skd5aner:

Much easier for me to discuss somthing on a wiki then to learn C/QT :)

[21:38:42]

iamlindoro:

Easier, maybe, but much less useful

[21:38:58]

skd5aner:

iamlindoro: and I hope you realize I'm definitely not here to argue it, just want to understand it

[21:39:12]

skd5aner:

appreciate the insight

[21:39:20]

iamlindoro:

np, just general frustration, not at you

[21:40:48]

skd5aner:

eh – no worries, I get it :)

[21:41:24]

skd5aner:

trust me, if I could be sitting here coding up one of the many things I *wish* I could contribute, I wouldn't simply be browsing the wiki for random articles to read

[21:42:45]

iamlindoro:

put that time towards learning, then do it ;)

[21:42:51]

iamlindoro:

That's how I got involved

[21:43:03]

iamlindoro:

Open the code with no knowledge, close it with a little more, until you're useful

[21:43:13]

skd5aner:

you know – I intend to, but real life has had other plans for the last couple years

[21:43:14]

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[21:44:29]

skd5aner:

I do have some development background, but I'm about 10 years stale. Took some Java courses, and was fairly proficient at VB

[21:44:50]

skd5aner:

Actually – bought a QT3 book 2 years ago with the intent of doing "something"

[21:45:07]

skd5aner:

of course, now that book is worthless ;)

[21:45:13]

iamlindoro:

the Qt class references are the best docs

[21:45:21]

dustybin:

Contributing to a project is actually good for your CV and getting future jobs

[21:45:24]

iamlindoro:

With good examples in a lot of cases

[21:45:35]

iamlindoro:

dustybin, give advice when you've actually contributed something

[21:45:55]

skd5aner:

dustybin: no doubt, but honestly – I always resisted programming for a career path, but as a hobby – that's a different thing

[21:45:57]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: i have

[21:46:02]

dustybin:

just no mythtv

[21:46:05]

dustybin:

*not

[21:46:06]

iamlindoro:

sure you have

[21:46:17]

dustybin:

www.thinkdebian.org that is my contribution

[21:46:29]

iamlindoro:

Putting up a web site is NOT a contribution

[21:46:34]

dustybin:

why not?

[21:46:55]

iamlindoro:

because most peoples random tech blogs are more harm than good

[21:47:02]

iamlindoro:

especially one written by you

[21:47:15]

skd5aner:

because I've put up 30+ websites in my day (even multiple commercial sites) – does not mean I'm a contributor to a community FOSS project

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[21:47:32]

infradude:

so, nobody want to help me with my serial remote? :P

[21:47:42]

Dibblah:

iamlindoro: Isn't that rather... Negative?

[21:47:51]

skd5aner:

infradude: what's the deal? don't know if I can help, but gotta give us some details

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[21:49:14]

infradude:

well, i have a technisat skystar2 dvs-s, and its serial remote receiver.

[21:49:31]

skd5aner:

k – I don't have any of that, but go on...

[21:50:23]

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[21:50:29]

infradude:

i installed lirc, lirc-x, setserial etc. also theres already a lircd.conf for its remote.

[21:51:00]

infradude:

and thats what i wanna do: emulating keystrokes from remote signal

[21:51:44]

infradude:

because i am using kaffeine with my dvb and it has no support with irkick for now

[21:51:53]

skd5aner:

what distro?

[21:51:58]

infradude:

ubuntu, karmic

[21:52:20]

infradude:

i mean even irw has no output right now, i am totally messed up my hardware.conf in lirc folder

[21:52:29]

skd5aner:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Serial_Lirc_Install

[21:53:44]

infradude:

one final question: is this a general how to or mythtv only?

[21:54:05]

skd5aner:

well, myth doesn't do anything special with LIRC, just hooks into it

[21:54:17]

skd5aner:

if LIRC doesn't work on it's own, myth won't

[21:55:15]

infradude:

thanx, i give it a try... all that modules and scripts, still cant find the right mixture for mine

[21:55:21]

infradude:

take care

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