Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, October 21st, 2009, 00:00 UTC

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tbone:

what was the thinking of storing frontend hardware prefreneces in a centralized database vs. letting setting ~/home/.mythtv

[00:03:42]

tbone:

just easier cuz you already have a database to store stuff open!

[00:04:07]

Dagmar:

I <3 wiki session timeouts. *sigh*

[00:06:13]

Dagmar:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/DHCP_Server

[00:06:33]

Dagmar:

I'll go and seed links into various other parts of the wiki and slap in some section headers later

[00:09:45]

kormoc:

frontend hardware preferences?

[00:09:46]

** kormoc blinks **

[00:10:50]

iamlindoro:

I think he means the host specific portions of the settings table

[00:10:54]

iamlindoro:

maybe

[00:10:55]

iamlindoro:

possibly

[00:10:56]

iamlindoro:

sorta

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tbone:

well, like when u choose lirc or sound card. Stuff specific only to that frontend , thats what i was refering to

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iamlindoro:

There are many great reasons to keep it in the database, just like why we don't just cut and paste mplayer

[00:13:42]

iamlindoro:

lose a system, restore it with the same hostname, bam, all your settings are back

[00:13:55]

sphery:

one of said great reasons being that users shouldn't be flipping values in the settings directly--they should use the UI which checks the values for them

[00:14:02]

iamlindoro:

you can centrally backup and restore all settings for your entire home

[00:15:02]

iamlindoro:

We already need a DB for huge portions of myth's functionality, so no reason not to keep settings there

[00:15:28]

kormoc:

and really, what benefit does it bring to put it into a local file?

[00:15:40]

sphery:

it's easier to break?

[00:17:18]

tbone:

yes, I don't have any issues with it, just was curious

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[00:18:19]

tbone:

was kind of wondering if one reason was to have a frontend with very low or no storage requirements.

[00:19:58]

kormoc:

%s/no storage/no persistant storage/

[00:20:14]

iamlindoro:

settings would be a pittance spacewise

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[00:21:17]

sphery:

I don't know if it's a pittance... It's 23kB combined for my 3 systems.

[00:21:29]

iamlindoro:

heheh

[00:21:38]

sphery:

so, that's what, almost 8kb per host...

[00:21:38]

iamlindoro:

well let me just order another drive, then ;)

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[00:22:09]

sphery:

funny thing is that the data is 23kb, but the indices on the data is 40kb

[00:22:53]

tbone:

does anyone have mythtv running from a boot over network and hows the performance?

[00:24:09]

sphery:

not I

[00:24:24]

Dibblah:

Frontends, yes.

[00:24:36]

Dibblah:

Performance is fine, but I'm all gigabit.

[00:24:39]

tbone:

runs everything good

[00:24:44]

tbone:

cool

[00:24:53]

Dibblah:

I wouldn't recommend it with 100Mbit/s.

[00:25:05]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, OK to CC you on an e-mail between me and the TMDB guy?

[00:25:36]

iamlindoro:

kormoc, he outlined his new DB setup/API and if (as xris mentioned) you offered your help to them, you might like to see it

[00:25:37]

tbone:

have you done a network performance test with gigabyte

[00:25:38]

tbone:

?

[00:25:44]

iamlindoro:

s/byte/bit/

[00:26:15]

tbone:

Mine has no where near the performance jump that 10 to 100 gave.

[00:26:38]

Dibblah:

iperf will tell you the raw performance.

[00:26:50]

tbone:

thinks gigabyte is more like 3x100

[00:27:01]

Dibblah:

However, it all depends on what you're doing with it.

[00:28:23]

iamlindoro:

s/byte/bit/

[00:28:29]

tbone:

I was trying to copy files over the network, that was probably around 80MB/S

[00:28:51]

iamlindoro:

80 MB/s would be much more than 3x100 Mbit :)

[00:29:07]

iamlindoro:

That would be ~850 Mbit/s

[00:29:26]

tbone:

duh

[00:29:28]

iamlindoro:

er 640

[00:29:52]

iamlindoro:

stupid retarded typign fingers

[00:30:35]

tbone:

ah now i can't remember, must of been 80MB/s

[00:31:09]

tbone:

it was around what my raid IO was

[00:31:22]

tbone:

which shows that it disk limited

[00:31:32]

jams:

i can't help but think it's klever V2

[00:32:06]

iamlindoro:

heh

[00:32:38]

jams:

just my own observation :)

[00:32:53]

Dibblah:

I don't know what you could mean.

[00:32:57]

Dibblah:

;)

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kormoc:

iamlindoro: feel free

[00:35:34]

iamlindoro:

Thanks, already did ;)

[00:35:38]

kormoc:

tbone: jumbe frames needed

[00:36:05]

tbone:

what you max throughput?

[00:36:52]

jams:

oh man just noticed i ordered a sata 2.5 inch drive, I meant to order an ATA/IDE drive

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jams:

oh well..guess i can always find a use for it

[00:37:35]

tbone:

I give you some of my old ones.

[00:38:06]

iamlindoro:

j-rod, I wasn't accusing the packager of being wrong, I was telling him he misunderstand the command he was running

[00:38:20]

jams:

thanks for the offer but somehow i don't think I want them.

[00:38:56]

iamlindoro:

j-rod, He said that he had to install the build deps to run the package he installed, I strongly doubted that, but suggested that if it was the case (and I didn't think it was) it would be a packager issue

[00:40:48]

jams:

ah sweet my current laptop uses sata..I can use it there.

[00:41:02]

tbone:

there ok i just can't justify watt usage for such small drives.

[00:42:22]

jams:

that wouldn't bother me..they are for my car mp3 player

[00:48:39]

sphery:

heh, #7380... at least this way it was only 1/min that gnome-screensaver-command caused issues

[00:49:02]

sphery:

so anyone know why gnome-screensaver-command --poke now causes a lot of systems to have playback glitches?

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jams:

not me

[00:49:26]

sphery:

is it really that resource-intensive?

[00:49:44]

tbone:

yep i've seen that

[00:49:52]

sphery:

maybe dbus got stuck in traffic...

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tbone:

it has to do with myth wakeup video command i think

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iamlindoro:

As a myth dev, I can categorically state that I have no idea what a "myth wakeup video command" is

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jams:

that screensaver stuff should be moved to xdg so that it only has one check. Let it do the work.

[00:51:12]

iamlindoro:

jams, and yes, assuredly clever V2

[00:51:16]

tbone:

yeah bet said the keep the screen saver from going off command

[00:51:18]

sphery:

yeah, Myth--as any responsible media player should--does not stop the screensaver when it's playing media, but it constantly "pokes" it

[00:51:38]

iamlindoro:

tbone, that last sentence wasn't even english

[00:51:47]

sphery:

if the command that the screensaver app gives us to poke it takes a huge amount of system resources, though, there's not much we can do to fix the problem

[00:51:54]

iamlindoro:

if laga were here, he would set you on fire

[00:52:35]

tbone:

yeah i need to read the trash i write before i hit enter

[00:52:44]

jams:

sphery would it be bad to depend on xdg-utils for this stuff?

[00:52:55]

jams:

stuff=screensaver control

[00:53:53]

sphery:

no worse than relying on gnome-screensaver-command (or xscreensaver-command--and, funny enough, completely ignoring kde screensaver)

[00:54:12]

jams:

yes it would be one more thing to have, but the user could always write their own stub of a program if they dont' want xdgutils installed

[00:54:17]

sphery:

jams: does <distro of choice> install that?

[00:54:28]

jams:

they should all have it

[00:54:37]

sphery:

I'll look at it...

[00:54:40]

jams:

if it's installed by default i can't say

[00:55:07]

sphery:

is it more lightweight than gnome-screensaver-command (in the situations where g-s-c causes playback issues)

[00:55:28]

jams:

actually all it does is call the gnome/xscreensaver command

[00:55:36]

sphery:

I don't even run a screensaver on my frontend system--that's what the power button on my TV is for...

[00:55:56]

jams:

but it would take the logic away from myth for deciding which one to all and how to call it

[00:55:56]

sphery:

that's cool

[00:56:06]

jams:

all myth would need todo is call xdg-screensaver

[00:56:24]

sphery:

I'll see what the people-whose-opinion-counts think of switching to use it

[00:56:35]

jams:

but i just suggested it =)

[00:56:46]

sphery:

oh, yeah, what was I thinking... :)

[00:56:52]

jams:

hehe

[00:56:59]

sphery:

as long as I can do it without a new setting, I'm up for it.

[00:57:05]

sphery:

will make the kde users happy, too

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jams:

bought the only thing I can thank of that might cause a problem is determining if the poke commands even need to run

[00:57:34]

jams:

I guess that would be limited to if xdg is present, run it

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sphery:

and, since g-s-c causes playback issues, I think it would be funny to add to the resource usage by having another middleman call g-s-c :)

[00:58:22]

jams:

can't say I have every seend resource problems with g-s-c

[00:58:30]

jams:

guess version info would help

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sphery:

yeah... it may even allow us to do some fancy stuff, though

[00:58:48]

iamlindoro:

not finding your hardware in a dumpster works wonders

[00:59:00]

iamlindoro:

as opposed to some people

[00:59:05]

sphery:

suspend WindowID seems to allow it to "do the right thing" to suspend until the window goes away

[00:59:29]

jams:

iamlindoro- good one

[00:59:41]

sphery:

oh, no... you have to suspend it on that window id, then resume it on that id

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sphery:

so, really, it seems to break every recommendation for how to properly suspend--i.e. if myth suspends on a windowid and crashes, then it never re-enables the screensaver...

[01:00:34]

sphery:

I'll have to look at its code

[01:02:31]

sphery:

if it handles window closing without a resume, though, it will be /very/ nice

[01:02:47]

sphery:

and will work around the g-s-c resource-hogging

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j-rod:

iamlindoro: heh, I thought that reply might get taken the wrong way...

[01:18:37]

j-rod:

wasn't intending to direct any hostility at you, more asking the user wtf was unclear

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sphery:

kormoc: Your favorite laundry detergent made Leno's Headlines last night: http://misc.thirdcontact.com/Tide_for_kormoc.png

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kormoc:

Woo!

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paul3v:

Hello all

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[02:53:16]

josh_:

Sigh, I'm having an issue building the latest trunk on my gentoo box. It could be related to deps, but I can't deduce which dep (may?) be missing.

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josh_:

Configure log > http://dpaste.com/110011/

[02:58:55]

[R]:

looks like you are missing qt

[02:59:12]

josh_:

hmm.

[02:59:21]

sphery:

qt4 for trunk

[02:59:27]

paul3v:

Anyone know about WinTV HVR-950? I can get FE_HAS_LOCK with azap, but video is choppy and sometimes crashes. Checked for DMA as per the documentation

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[03:00:11]

sphery:

josh_: post the output of make that actually errors

[03:00:33]

josh_:

[R], that's right. I was in the middle of rebuilding QT for qt-opengl, it appears portage installed qt3 instead of qt4

[03:00:37]

sphery:

josh_: and you probably want qt4.4 or higher compiled with qtwebkit support

[03:00:41]

josh_:

sphery, I think they're on the right track with QT.

[03:00:47]

sphery:

cool..

[03:01:17]

josh_:

I dont know why the hell portage installed qt3 though. I *had* qt4.5 installed, and it just had to rebuild it for qt-opengl

[03:02:20]

josh_:

qt-core is 4.5.2, but "qt" is still 3.3.8

[03:02:26]

sphery:

josh_: in order to use that working copy, you'll have to clean it up with make distclean && find . -name Makefile -delete && svn up

[03:02:38]

sphery:

if it's some other thing that emerge cleans up, though, don't worry about it

[03:03:07]

josh_:

sphery, I'm building from svn, so emerge shouldnt be messing with it

[03:03:24]

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[03:03:25]

sphery:

then clean it up with the commands I mentioned

[03:03:40]

sphery:

once you start with qt3, you'll need to clean it up

[03:03:47]

josh_:

ahh.

[03:05:05]

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[03:06:38]

paul3v:

Any troubleshooting advice? Tuner exhibits same problem with vlc

[03:06:39]

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[03:07:15]

josh_:

sphery, cleaning up now, but I posted a paste with the actual build error

[03:07:16]

josh_:

http://dpaste.com/hold/110015/

[03:07:55]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, are we in a holding pattern on -fixes now since those other 2 tickets were created by daniel?

[03:08:16]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, best question of the week

[03:08:27]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Apparently the rule only applies to those who don't ignore the rule

[03:08:53]

Captain_Murdoch:

I'm going to commit a schema upgrade fix for htat issue reported by Ken Bass on -users.

[03:08:54]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: he said he'll look at #7382 on Monday (guess he's busy 'til then).

[03:09:35]

iamlindoro:

I have four script crash fixes sitting in my inbox to remind me to commit them upon release

[03:11:21]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I looked at it some, and with either of gbee's 2 patches ([22544] or [22542]), all that's left to figure out is the "Painter not active" issue. I think even if I spend all my free time from now 'til Monday working on that part, danielk will still solve it faster than me (even though he won't be able to look until Monday).

[03:12:22]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: to reproduce it, just start up -fixes (with either of the mentioned patches backported/applied) with the theme set to an old (not-upgraded) 0.21-fixes theme

[03:12:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

this the white background issue?

[03:12:44]

sphery:

I just installed G.A.N.T from -fixes and set that as the theme

[03:13:08]

sphery:

white background is solved by the change I made before

[03:14:01]

sphery:

[22546] --basically, we were checking if GetThemesParentDir() + themename is a valid dir, even when themename == ''

[03:14:20]

sphery:

so we used the parent dir as a theme, and since it had nothing in it, we got a "blank" theme :)

[03:14:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

has anyone reported issues with the Qt painter not drawing parts of the screen occasionally?

[03:14:44]

sphery:

the "Painter not active" just prevents it from drawing properly

[03:15:16]

sphery:

meaning like the Exit Prompt pops up but isn't completely drawn?

[03:16:27]

sphery:

or is a too-small square with buttons going outside of the "window"

[03:16:38]

sphery:

and then on resetting focus, it's redrawn properly?

[03:16:39]

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[03:17:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

parts missing, possibly the exit prompt thing, havne't seen that.

[03:17:15]

josh_:

sphery, still crashing, and I even disabled opengl and opengl-vsync support from configure.

[03:17:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

or parts not refreshing when they should

[03:17:27]

wagnerrp:

well this is interesting

[03:17:28]

josh_:

not entirely confident with my QT situation though.

[03:17:40]

wagnerrp:

my PVR-150s are broken

[03:17:55]

wagnerrp:

some kernel configuration issue on my part, that i havent bothered to fix yet

[03:18:09]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: that's the Qt painter?

[03:18:09]

wagnerrp:

however theyre still recording things

[03:18:20]

wagnerrp:

tonight, they recorded two shows both an hour long

[03:18:23]

wagnerrp:

an hour of static

[03:18:32]

wagnerrp:

and the comm flagger registered four commercials

[03:18:39]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: If so, it may be theme-related... I think if a theme uses negative coordinates, it will only draw properly/fully with the OpenGL painter

[03:18:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, yeah, found a bug when I modify PlaybackBox to draw the screen before filling in the recording list.

[03:18:47]

josh_:

wagnerrp, *that's* funny

[03:18:52]

paul3v:

Any thoughts on WinTV HVR950 and choppy video/instability? Kernel module loaded successfully, azap can get lock, dmesg reports configured for UDMA/133

[03:19:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, this won't affect that that I know of.

[03:19:18]

wagnerrp:

im wondering what it picked up on to flag as a commercial

[03:19:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

this is just things not being redrawn because we cleared some vars to early causing some widgets on screen to not refresh in the right circumstances.

[03:19:51]

Captain_Murdoch:

wagnerrp, just because you can't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. the flagger is that good.... :)

[03:19:52]

sphery:

yeah, I saw your mention of it in #mythtv--though it all went over my head

[03:20:03]

sphery:

josh_: which is crashing? the build?

[03:20:10]

sphery:

josh_: if so, make logs to pastebin, please

[03:20:34]

sphery:

can cap them with: make 2>&1 | tee mklog

[03:20:57]

sphery:

make sure you don't do a make -j # (with # > 1)

[03:21:31]

josh_:

sphery, I'm currently doing a 'make -j 3', should I try once with just 'make' ?

[03:22:19]

sphery:

it shouldn't affect anything except the order of logging--making it easier to determine what's actually causing the failure when looking at the logs

[03:22:43]

josh_:

ok, just a second

[03:22:51]

sphery:

so repeat--without a make distclean--with a make and the pastebin the logs, please

[03:22:56]

paul3v:

It seems like a driver issue since vlc gives choppy video too. I pulled down the v4l zip for drivers

[03:22:58]

sphery:

no make clean, either

[03:23:24]

josh_:

configure log: http://dpaste.com/110018/

[03:23:29]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: I think danielk wants to hold the release for both of those issues, though.

[03:23:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

thought so but wanted to ask in case I missed something in scrollback.

[03:23:56]

josh_:

sphery, is that "tee mklog" correct, or a typo?

[03:24:16]

josh_:

sphery, nvmind, /usr/bin/tee

[03:24:23]

sphery:

the tee mklog just says to output to mklog and to stdout

[03:24:30]

sphery:

so you can watch it and cap it at the same time :)

[03:25:01]

josh_:

sphery, nice, I didnt know of that utility

[03:26:03]

josh_:

sphery, this box will be backend only, I dont care about x11 and video accelleration stuffs.

[03:26:07]

josh_:

just FYE

[03:27:21]

paul3v:

Any thoughts would be appreciated :)

[03:27:52]

sphery:

ah, then the QtWebKit won't be important, either

[03:28:05]

sphery:

josh_: have you got the make output, yet?

[03:28:07]

josh_:

sphery, exactly :)

[03:28:19]

josh_:

sphery, still building, just errored

[03:28:28]

sphery:

ok

[03:28:36]

sphery:

wanted to make sure I didn't miss it above

[03:29:27]

sphery:

paul3v: Sorry, I don't know anything about that card (or any other USB cards).

[03:30:32]

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[03:30:56]

josh_:

sphery, just another second, wgetpaste isnt working

[03:31:05]

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[03:31:27]

josh_:

sphery, make 2>&1 | tee mklog

[03:31:30]

josh_:

erp

[03:31:39]

josh_:

sphery, http://dpaste.com/110019/

[03:31:49]

paul3v:

sphery, Np. Thanks though

[03:32:07]

sphery:

josh_: it's still using qt3 (now that you have both installed)

[03:32:21]

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[03:32:29]

sphery:

josh_: did you do the make distclean && find . -name Makefile -delete && svn revert -R .

[03:32:32]

sphery:

(or svn up)

[03:32:34]

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[03:33:15]

sphery:

josh_: or, wait...

[03:33:27]

sphery:

It seems it is using Qt4, since it got so far

[03:33:55]

sphery:

but for some reason it doesn't have the QtWebKit stuff disabled

[03:34:20]

sphery:

is http://dpaste.com/110018/ your most current configure output?

[03:34:35]

josh_:

sphery, yes.

[03:35:09]

sphery:

and which svn rev is this?

[03:35:14]

sphery:

svn info

[03:35:34]

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[03:37:42]

josh_:

sphery, Revision: 22550

[03:38:04]

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[03:41:05]

sphery:

josh_: can you do: grep CONFIG_QTWEBKIT config.mak

[03:41:26]

josh_:

sphery, nothing found

[03:42:46]

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[03:46:46]

sphery:

josh_: I saw the response--thanks--I'm looking into it, now

[03:46:53]

sphery:

it will take a bit, though

[03:47:20]

josh_:

sphery, okay, thanks. Should I file a bug? or do you want to take a look at the code first?

[03:47:22]

** sphery needs 65GB/sec HDD's **

[03:48:09]

sphery:

give me a second

[03:48:23]

sphery:

I'm starting to think that we've recently made qtwebkit a mandatory requirement

[03:48:35]

Captain_Murdoch:

yes

[03:49:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

used to be that we only needed Qt 4.4 for drawRoundedRect(), now we took out the #if stuff around the webkit code and that's required now.

[03:49:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

happened a month or two ago I think.

[03:49:28]

josh_:

ahh

[03:49:36]

** josh_ starts installing qtwebkit **

[03:50:03]

sphery:

OK, we haven't made it mandatory

[03:50:09]

sphery:

(at least not on purpose)

[03:51:12]

josh_:

Would qtwebkit be needed on a backend-only machine anyway?

[03:51:29]

josh_:

needed – obviously yes, but would it be used?

[03:51:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

wouldn't be used that I know of.

[03:52:23]

sphery:

josh_: OK, it is required now--since http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/22066/tr . . . bbrowser.cpp

[03:52:38]

sphery:

took a while to track down

[03:53:05]

josh_:

okay, if it *is* required, I have no problem installing it

[03:53:18]

sphery:

which means we either need to fix configure to error out and tell the user that they need it or we need to re-add the ifdefs

[03:53:27]

sphery:

thanks for testing this for us :)

[03:53:33]

josh_:

no prob.

[03:53:38]

sphery:

that's something I never would have found (since I have qtwebkit installed :)

[03:53:50]

[R]:

sphery: configure will actually pass even if qt is missing

[03:53:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

I thougth that configure was modified as part of that commit.

[03:53:57]

[R]:

completely*

[03:54:06]

[R]:

unless thats been fixed recently

[03:54:18]

josh_:

It hasnt been an issue on my ubuntu boxes (since I guess they install qt-webkit with QT), gentoo was the first time I've seen anything like that

[03:54:42]

josh_:

at least I dont have to recompile qt-core again

[03:55:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

[R], it shouldn't, there is code to check for minimum Qt version in configure, but maybe we don't error out if it's too low or not found.

[03:55:53]

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[03:56:05]

[R]:

its been like 3 weeks or so since i tried compiling w/o qt

[03:56:12]

[R]:

but i saw no errors in configure

[03:57:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

it's supposed to die if it can't find Qt 4.4 or newer

[03:58:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

it runs "qmake -query QT_VERSION". also should die if it can't find qmake or qmake-qt4

[03:58:06]

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[03:58:30]

[R]:

i may have had qmake but not the libs

[03:58:36]

josh_:

Captain_Murdoch, it *does* die if it cant find qmake

[03:58:43]

[R]:

it was a few weeks ago... but i do remember it dying a horrific death during compliation

[03:58:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

[R], yeah, we don't compile anything that I know of, just check the version.

[03:59:30]

sphery:

[R]: and on -fixes I think it does as you say.

[03:59:35]

sphery:

er, 0.21-fixes

[03:59:41]

sphery:

(forgot we have 2 fixes, now :)

[04:00:29]

[R]:

so i just checked the script

[04:00:37]

[R]:

i had qmake, and it would have reported the correct version

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[04:01:34]

sphery:

hmmm... adding 1042 recordings to a playlist is /very/ slow

[04:02:48]

sphery:

(not that anyone in their right mind would ever do that--unless, of course, they hit the wrong buttons on the remote when trying to change group filter)

[04:03:16]

[R]:

is that whaat you did?

[04:03:38]

sphery:

heh, actually, it doesn't take long--but if you /think/ you accidentally selected the button but you didn't, it can take a while to figure out you didn't do anything

[04:03:45]

[R]:

lol

[04:03:53]

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[05:26:22]

leprasmurf1:

hello all, I'm trying to fine tune some channels, but can't find the frequency it should be around, or find how much I should step each attempt. Is there a frequency table for us-cable?

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[06:04:59]

TM1111a:

leprasmurf, look here http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.ph . . . ht=frequency

[06:05:52]

sphery:

leprasmurf1: also note that you should never need to use fine tuning if you've chosen the right frequency table

[06:06:03]

sphery:

as all modern tuners have built-in hardware fine-tuning

[06:06:17]

leprasmurf1:

TM1111a, ty

[06:06:55]

TM1111a:

np

[06:06:58]

leprasmurf1:

sphery, as far as I can tell, I've got the correct frequency table, but perhaps

[06:07:34]

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[06:08:03]

sphery:

leprasmurf1: is it digital TV or analog?

[06:08:19]

sphery:

if digital, make sure you do a full scan--not a "cable high" or whatever

[06:08:38]

sphery:

and make sure you wait for it to complete (because channel numbers have nothing to do with frequencies in digital)

[06:09:00]

sphery:

so even if you see the last of your channel numbers go by, you may not have gotten to the actually frequencies that contain the channels you get

[06:09:15]

leprasmurf1:

sphery: analog, wall cable to tv tuner card

[06:09:54]

leprasmurf1:

sphery, did a full scan, let it finishand it's only certain channels that are having problems

[06:09:57]

sphery:

also note that there are 3 frequency tables for US cable--us-cable, us-cable-hrc, and us-cable-irc

[06:10:13]

sphery:

actually, if you're using analog, you should /not/ do a channel scan

[06:10:14]

leprasmurf1:

channel 5, but only during recordings (if I watch it as live tv it's fine)

[06:10:24]

sphery:

see http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[06:10:43]

leprasmurf1:

according to brighthouse webpage, if the option exists to set irc, hrc or std, set std

[06:10:53]

sphery:

you need to do the video sources portion of it (Delete all video sources), then this time instead of scanning for channels, you should use, "Fetch channels from

[06:10:56]

sphery:

listings source

[06:11:18]

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[06:11:27]

leprasmurf1:

alright, I'll give that a try, but I thought scanning checked the signal strenght

[06:12:23]

sphery:

we don't store any signal strength info

[06:13:01]

sphery:

and you actually get more and better info from your listings provider

[06:16:23]

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[06:27:49]

justinh:

sphery: webkit is needed for the programinfo stuff AFAIK

[06:28:04]

justinh:

so it'd hardly be optional ;-)

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[06:29:25]

** justinh finger hovers over the 'cancel this schedule button' on flashforward **

[06:30:24]

sphery:

justinh: just the program details screen, right?

[06:30:38]

justinh:

as far as I know yes

[06:30:58]

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[06:31:13]

sphery:

but whether we require it or not, we need to fix configure

[06:31:18]

justinh:

and that was only because paul couldn't think of a better/quicker/easier way to implement variable textarea sizes

[06:31:19]

sphery:

as it allows you to compile without it

[06:31:24]

justinh:

ouch

[06:31:44]

sphery:

(but the compile itself fails)

[06:32:33]

justinh:

I was horrified that html is even used initially but once I realised there's no other way to do what it does right now...

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[06:54:44]

justinh:

I should stop reading stuff like this, even by accident. It makes me want to smack people with a bat "mythtv's financial plan includes frustrating users enough to make them pay a dev to install it for them"

[06:56:57]

deaman:

some people just hate freedom

[06:58:56]

justinh:

people who want to hit folks who make stupid comments like that? So be it

[07:00:26]

justinh:

an ubuntu beanie hat won't offer much protection from a baseball bat :D

[07:01:01]

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[07:06:40]

Dibblah:

Uhm... It's a whiny blog.

[07:07:17]

Dibblah:

A _very_ whiny blog. With a bit of a needy flavor.

[07:09:38]

justinh:

ahh a little context helps "I'm an asshole. School time"

[07:10:32]

Dibblah:

He really needs to close that particular window into his soul.

[07:12:01]

justinh:

kids these days, they know not what they say – they know less of how long it will remain ;-)

[07:13:55]

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[07:15:10]

kormoc:

what blog is that?

[07:17:52]

leprasmurf1:

sphery: I did as you suggested and ran across the same problem with channel 15 (no picture, just snow). One possibility that occurs to me is that particular channel (for whatever reason) needs the set-top box. I can test this tomorrow

[07:17:56]

leprasmurf1:

g'night all

[07:18:05]

Dibblah:

kormoc: Just a random block.

[07:18:11]

Dibblah:

... blog.

[07:22:03]

justinh:

I have a search panel in my twitter client which shows me any mention of mythtv (filtered to avoid all the 'recording' spam) – it showed up in there first

[07:22:36]

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[07:25:32]

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[07:41:23]

justinh:

I really resent ubuntu & its constant insistence passwords are kept 'safe'

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[07:48:01]

justinh:

hahaha. finally figured how to solve that little problem. Wonder why I ever set a proper password on the keyring anyway

[07:51:18]

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[07:56:39]

Dibblah:

Please. Make it stop. My eyes...

[07:56:40]

Dibblah:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KECES-PT-111-Balanced-I . . . em255672d92b

[07:57:24]

Dibblah:

"GU-R301 Gold plated 99.99% pure copper IEC socket not only enhance the details and dynamics, it also makes it sound warm and smooth, the high quality processing done on GU-R301's gold plating process also makes it sound more refined and all without losing a bit of the details "

[07:57:32]

Dibblah:

Yes, it's a kettle lead socket.

[07:59:20]

justinh:

come the revolution we shall have a cull

[07:59:47]

justinh:

a very bloody but satisfying cull

[08:02:10]

lucky:

is there a frontend for mythtv that won't monopolize my machine? Something that'll run in a normal window and i can minimize and use like a normal application?

[08:02:21]

justinh:

nope

[08:02:29]

justinh:

unless you run mythfrontend in a window of course

[08:02:36]

justinh:

a non-resizable window

[08:02:46]

lucky:

like tvtime sort of.

[08:02:52]

Dibblah:

Damnit. All I want is a fairly large set of audio baluns :(

[08:03:27]

justinh:

Dibblah: I'm thinking about trying ethernet transformers nicked from old kit for giggles

[08:03:43]

Dibblah:

Won't work particularly well.

[08:03:49]

justinh:

Dibblah: I think so long as the audio signals don't saturate the magnetics it'll be ok

[08:04:00]

Dibblah:

They drop off at about 4kHz on the low side.

[08:04:07]

justinh:

yeah? oof

[08:04:53]

justinh:

Dibblah: you could prolly use audio isolation transformers just as well – pretty sure the actual impedances won't matter much at audio frequencies

[08:05:19]

justinh:

not with most sane lengths of cable anyway

[08:05:30]

lucky:

like http://winmyth.sourceforge.net/ but for linux ... i can't get the normal frontend to cooperate, it won't minimize correctly or release the mouse pointer and stuff

[08:05:39]

justinh:

lucky: NO

[08:05:46]

justinh:

I said no already damnit

[08:05:56]

justinh:

why don't people fscking listen?

[08:06:29]

justinh:

run winmyth under wine :P

[08:06:31]

lucky:

justinh: no you didn't. you said no to something different.

[08:06:49]

Dibblah:

lucky: You can set the frontend to run in a window and not hide the mouse cursor.

[08:07:43]

Dibblah:

However, that's really not how it's commonly used by all of the devs, so it's likely that there's going to be bugs. If you want to fix them, it would be appreciated by many.

[08:08:06]

justinh:

mythfrontend != desktop app. ya boo

[08:08:57]

Dibblah:

There's no good reason why it can't be, apart from that noone has put the effort in to make it work well in that use case.

[08:09:19]

justinh:

it'd be a wasted effort from many people's points of view

[08:09:27]

Dibblah:

justinh: Have you seen the list of "removing settings"?

[08:09:43]

justinh:

not yet. been looking forward to it though

[08:10:32]

justinh:

lemme guess – it's not been announced on any of the mailing lists

[08:10:43]

lucky:

Dibblah: i understand many use it as a dedicated machine, i only have the one computer though. 8-)

[08:11:16]

Dibblah:

It's not a decision yet.

[08:11:32]

Dibblah:

It's just a preliminary but no discussion will be made list ;)

[08:11:55]

Dibblah:

ie the discussion usually just degrades into bickering over trivialities.

[08:12:00]

Dibblah:

PM?

[08:12:16]

justinh:

dunno why I'm bothered, it's not as if it'll be a consultation

[08:12:21]

justinh:

sure

[08:12:39]

justinh:

oh wait

[08:13:09]

justinh:

heh still had * on MSGS ignore

[08:13:16]

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[08:13:31]

Dibblah:

Heh. Now that's a funky way to roll.

[08:14:12]

justinh:

FFS, why does pasting sometimes just not work between my ssh window & freenx?

[08:14:30]

Dibblah:

It can be a consultation – However, *some* settings need to go.

[08:14:51]

Dibblah:

So it won't be the usual "let's change this" email, I believe.

[08:15:03]

Dibblah:

Like I said – That really doesn't work.

[08:15:56]

justinh:

ugh. some of those are badly thought through

[08:15:58]

Dibblah:

The problem with half these settings is that it papers over bugs.

[08:16:24]

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[08:17:53]

Dibblah:

Unlucky!!! :)

[08:18:15]

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[08:19:00]

Dibblah:

Is the font size stuff actually well supported by any theme?

[08:19:29]

Dibblah:

And now that fonts can be specified in pixel sizes, how do you translate...?

[08:20:07]

justinh:

no, I mean the actual font size tuning setting. it should stay since the 'big' 'small' sizes have gone

[08:20:43]

justinh:

it's all well & good saying it should be up to the themer but for crissakes we're not gonna see MyopicGrandad-wide in any hurry are we?

[08:20:51]

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[08:21:10]

Dibblah:

That's a very good point, which does need fixed.

[08:21:30]

Dibblah:

But it needs fixed with MyopicGrandadWide, not with more settings.

[08:21:43]

justinh:

the overall font size 'zoom' should stay IMHO

[08:21:58]

Dibblah:

Even though it visually breaks themes?

[08:22:02]

justinh:

it's not that big an encumberance. certainly not on the scale the old font size definitions were

[08:22:23]

Dibblah:

Think of the use-case.

[08:22:31]

Dibblah:

And think how it can work.

[08:23:09]

Dibblah:

There's only certain sizes for the elements – With the guidegrid now being fixed size, where does it help?

[08:23:34]

justinh:

screw it then

[08:23:59]

Dibblah:

Heh. But yes, low-vision needs thought about.

[08:24:05]

Dibblah:

As do so, so many other things.

[08:24:14]

justinh:

other things to go should be the ability to set different audio devices & volumes for different bits of mythtv

[08:24:30]

Dibblah:

That went in 0.21

[08:24:35]

justinh:

ha

[08:24:45]

justinh:

so common volume control key bindings etc?

[08:25:05]

Dibblah:

I don't understand.

[08:25:30]

justinh:

for some reason I always thought the vol controls were on different keys

[08:25:56]

Dibblah:

Different keys to what?

[08:26:10]

Dibblah:

AFAIK, there's only three volume keybindings.

[08:26:53]

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[08:27:26]

rwat:

anyone using 0.22(ish) on karmic and got it to not hog the sound card?

[08:27:53]

Dibblah:

Myth will stop pulseaudio.

[08:28:11]

Dibblah:

If you don't want it to, you need to set an environment variable, ISTR.

[08:28:17]

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[08:28:19]

justinh:

Dibblah: why three? there's no need for three sets of keybindings for volume controls

[08:28:31]

Dibblah:

Vol+ Vol- Mute

[08:28:41]

justinh:

TV Frontend, TV Playback & Music

[08:28:53]

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[08:29:08]

justinh:

select * from keybindings where action like "%volum%"; :-)

[08:29:08]

rwat:

Dibblah: that's interesting. I'm reading this: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Configuring_Digita . . . r_PulseAudio – did I miss something?

[08:29:15]

Dibblah:

EXPERIMENTALLY_ALLOW_PULSE_AUDIO

[08:29:18]

justinh:

rwat: note the FOR 0.21

[08:29:27]

rwat:

yeah I read the bit below that too

[08:29:37]

justinh:

and ignored it, obviously :-\

[08:29:39]

rwat:

I guess that's also not current

[08:29:56]

Dibblah:

I thought those keybindings all pointed to the same volume control?

[08:30:33]

rwat:

should I be worried about the word EXPERIMENTALLY ?

[08:30:43]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[08:30:51]

rwat:

that's a shame

[08:31:00]

Dibblah:

Previously, pulse has caused multiple problems.

[08:31:01]

justinh:

Dibblah: possibly, but wtf is the point in three sets of keybindings for the same function?

[08:31:18]

Dibblah:

Stuttering audio, out-of-sync audio, etc.

[08:31:24]

Dibblah:

That's why it gets disabled.

[08:31:47]

justinh:

ooo different day of week cases for the pause button!

[08:32:02]

rwat:

so if I want to watch youtube in a browser I need to stop mythtv ATM?

[08:32:13]

Dibblah:

It doesn't cope well with the way Myth synchronises the audio to the video.

[08:32:24]

Dibblah:

rwat: Only mythfrontend.

[08:32:36]

justinh:

stop mythfrontend playing audio

[08:32:39]

justinh:

that's all

[08:32:51]

justinh:

ye of little attention span :)

[08:32:57]

Dibblah:

No – pulseaudio is disabled at startup.

[08:33:02]

Dibblah:

Not at audio open.

[08:33:25]

justinh:

so just stop pulseaudio full stop. on yer desktop machine

[08:33:36]

justinh:

other apps will still work without it

[08:33:48]

justinh:

won't they?!

[08:34:06]

justinh:

if not then it really was a badly informed decision to go for it

[08:34:26]

Dibblah:

No.

[08:34:49]

Dibblah:

Pulseaudio on most distros is in the audio path.

[08:34:55]

Dibblah:

If it's stopped – no audio.

[08:35:39]

justinh:

the word 'ouch' doesn't even come close to what I want to say

[08:35:59]

quicksilver:

anyone tried running mythfrontend on an ibook G4?

[08:36:34]

justinh:

I remember mangling PA on my laptop's linux install & never had any problems with it

[08:36:49]

justinh:

by mangling I mean dismembering, getting rid..

[08:37:18]

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[08:38:35]

justinh:

so erm.. how have other AV apps coped with the transition to PA?

[08:39:00]

Dibblah:

Good question.

[08:39:15]

justinh:

presumably they've not had any issues or there'd have been more of a furore about PA

[08:39:35]

rwat:

yeah basically I have the choice of mythfrontend or other things

[08:39:42]

Dibblah:

Ignored it and accepted the bug reports, or their audio sync code copes with >500ms audio latency.

[08:39:47]

[Peter]:

justinh: all of them have issues with pulse

[08:40:02]

[Peter]:

justinh: just google for $randomvideoplayer + pulseaudio

[08:40:42]

justinh:

I just kinda assumed that PA problems would have to have been in the minority, lesser cases for PA adoption to have become so widespread. Whoops

[08:40:59]

rwat:

as you say, that's an assumption

[08:41:07]

rwat:

which doesn't turn out to be true

[08:41:16]

justinh:

who the ****ing hell makes these decisions?

[08:41:26]

rwat:

someone with only one audio app

[08:41:41]

rwat:

so I tried removing pulse

[08:41:50]

rwat:

and configure alsa with dmix plugin

[08:42:11]

rwat:

that is a lot more complicated than it should be

[08:42:19]

justinh:

well it prolly is NOW

[08:42:21]

justinh:

lol

[08:42:29]

[Peter]:

dmix used to be the default

[08:42:37]

[Peter]:

before all of this pulseaudio bullshit came along

[08:42:54]

justinh:

well, we have the power to overturn this BS

[08:43:13]

rwat:

yes before people go to the effort of writing a whole new audio daemon then why can't there just be a sensible stab getting dmix to work

[08:43:20]

rwat:

pulse has some nice features

[08:43:24]

justinh:

sure it does

[08:43:25]

rwat:

you can set volume per application

[08:43:28]

rwat:

which is great

[08:43:30]

justinh:

but SO WHAT

[08:43:36]

rwat:

but not much point if you can't hear the damn application

[08:43:39]

[Peter]:

the thing is that those features should be in ALSA

[08:43:43]

justinh:

PA has network streaming too. Woooooooo

[08:43:46]

[Peter]:

not in some extra layer of crap

[08:44:09]

[Peter]:

justinh: yeah.. that's useful for about 2 people in total

[08:44:16]

rwat:

so far I have not got dmix to work correctly

[08:44:21]

justinh:

they rattle on about being able to recognise features on sound devices too. Who really gives a toss?

[08:44:40]

justinh:

and besides, I don't want no server crap messing with the audio

[08:44:45]

justinh:

I want it output as is

[08:44:52]

rwat:

getting alsa to use dmix and the correct audio output is a bit of a trial ATM

[08:45:16]

justinh:

messing with volume controls buggers up the bit depth & all kinds of stuff

[08:45:46]

[Peter]:

justinh: I bet it resamples everything too

[08:46:03]

justinh:

and doing that on the fly is often dirty. doing it well takes TIME

[08:46:31]

rwat:

surely the "experimental" option should take you from something that works to something that doesn't?

[08:46:37]

rwat:

not the other way

[08:46:56]

rwat:

because all this used to work beautifully

[08:47:06]

justinh:

methinks the time has come for linux to stop playing catchup with windows & the mac

[08:47:28]

rwat:

I still don't understand why mythtv can't talk to alsa/dmix in the way the pulse can and not have to hog the input

[08:47:35]

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[08:47:43]

Dibblah:

It's not Myth.

[08:47:53]

Dibblah:

Pulse is pretending to be ALSA.

[08:48:03]

justinh:

rwat: because outputting to pulse doesn't guarantee continuity of output, nor does it guarantee *when* it arrives at the output

[08:48:04]

Dibblah:

So all applications go through Pulse.

[08:48:10]

rwat:

sure, but I can give mythtv a device

[08:48:19]

rwat:

even /dev/dsp or something

[08:48:20]

[Peter]:

pulse has hogged all of them

[08:48:24]

rwat:

bugger

[08:48:47]

Dibblah:

I _like_ the idea of Pulseaudio.

[08:48:51]

rwat:

is there a pulse wrapper like there used to be one for arts?

[08:48:57]

Dibblah:

I don't like the implementation particularly.

[08:48:59]

rwat:

maybe there still is one for arts

[08:49:02]

Dibblah:

padsp

[08:49:11]

rwat:

if I wrap mythtv in that will it work?

[08:49:14]

Dibblah:

No.

[08:49:20]

[Peter]:

Dibblah: most of the useful stuff should be doable inside ALSA

[08:49:22]

Dibblah:

Try the env variable.

[08:49:25]

Dibblah:

It may work.

[08:50:29]

Dibblah:

Woo. 4k lines in settings down to 900.

[08:50:43]

Dibblah:

... Just from removing stale hostnames.

[08:50:59]

Dibblah:

Hmm. Does the current Myth write default values to the settings tables?

[08:51:08]

Dibblah:

Or is that a legacy thing?

[08:51:27]

justinh:

only one way to find out. whoops. two

[08:53:57]

justinh:

you know what, I've not been able to find any 'problems' googling for mplayer pulseaudio

[08:54:25]

Dibblah:

Yes. Myth does audio sync differently, I believe.

[08:54:39]

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[08:55:19]

** rwat will try the env variable after a shower **

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[09:04:53]

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[09:09:35]

rwat:

so far experimental option seems to work a bit better

[09:10:41]

rwat:

obviously I will need to use it a while to check if it's robust, but at least other things can now play while mythfrontend is running but not playing

[09:10:52]

rwat:

myth can also play if other things are not running

[09:11:14]

rwat:

I think if I can throw dmix in there then it will be perfect

[09:11:34]

Dibblah:

dmix is not required.

[09:11:47]

Dibblah:

... unless you're running a really old distribution.

[09:12:17]

Dibblah:

For two reasons – firstly, ALSA devices (apart from HW*) support mixing by default now.

[09:12:24]

Dibblah:

And because pulseaudio is there.

[09:13:15]

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[09:14:01]

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[09:14:16]

rwat:

myth still seems to be talking to alsa – pulseaudio doesn't claim to know about it

[09:14:26]

rwat:

however it's not turning off pulseaudio like it used to

[09:15:11]

** rwat fiddles with alsa devices in myth **

[09:15:22]

Dibblah:

It all depends on what you set your audio device to.

[09:15:39]

rwat:

Oooooo result!!!

[09:15:51]

rwat:

got iplayer and mythtv clashing with each other beautifully

[09:16:16]

sid3windr:

ooh that's dirty!

[09:17:00]

justinh:

I'd rather the BBC have spent a bit of license fee money on publishing an API for the iplayer than waste it on BBC HD :)

[09:17:22]

justinh:

or keep BBC HD but lose 1Xtra or something

[09:17:31]

justinh:

or world cup of soccer

[09:18:26]

Dibblah:

Lose 1Xtra? You're talking about 1/2 of the target audience, there.

[09:18:50]

Dibblah:

(People who think they is blak included, of course)

[09:19:01]

rwat:

so in the end it was as simple as (1) set EXPERIMENTALLY_ALLOW_PULSE_AUDIO to 1 (2) set myth audio device to ALSA:Default and (3) set pulseaudio device to usb-audio

[09:19:19]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[09:19:30]

rwat:

no nasty audio or stuttering

[09:19:36]

justinh:

yet :P

[09:19:39]

rwat:

:)

[09:19:46]

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[09:20:05]

justinh:

my experience of everything USB audio related has been of nasty latency

[09:20:16]

justinh:

nasty as in – a couple of video frames minimum

[09:20:59]

justinh:

and certainly enough to be annoying if you're trying to monitor a USB audio input in software, Eugh

[09:21:54]

rwat:

so far no problems but will watch out for it

[09:21:59]

justinh:

I'll be selling my USB recording mike on ebay & buying a proper one with a real mixer (with real headphone monitoring) soon

[09:22:19]

** rwat has a 12 channel Yamaha mixer for such things **

[09:22:35]

justinh:

I thought how bad can it be. the reality is.. bad enough

[09:22:37]

rwat:

very trad and analog

[09:23:36]

justinh:

nobody really mentions it on the web – how USB audio just doesn't cut it for realtime use

[09:23:41]

rwat:

ATM I record using an EMU 0404 with my mac, but I might try linux for that again sometime

[09:24:12]

justinh:

sure, monitor live & record that.. but monitoring with the software.. god no

[09:24:56]

justinh:

even 10ms is a long time with my hearing

[09:25:13]

Dibblah:

USB audio latency depends on many things.

[09:25:16]

justinh:

I mean it's fine for virtual instruments & all that

[09:25:25]

Dibblah:

It's not as simple as "USB sucks for audio"

[09:25:30]

justinh:

yeah I know but even with it being as low as it can get....

[09:25:43]

rwat:

I've built up quite a few layers on my synth without any probs

[09:25:53]

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[09:26:07]

rwat:

that's listening back to the mix and adding a new track

[09:26:24]

justinh:

yeah but I'm talking about voice work

[09:26:48]

justinh:

you won't really notice a few ms when you're playing along

[09:27:08]

justinh:

but when you hear your own voice delayed a little bit when you're trying to speak or whatever.. eesh

[09:27:15]

rwat:

ahh I see

[09:27:16]

justinh:

really throws you off

[09:27:27]

rwat:

I'll have to try that and see

[09:27:42]

rwat:

my experience of OSX audio is that it's just beautiful

[09:27:55]

rwat:

I would love to be able to afford a powermac to run it on

[09:28:05]

rwat:

whatever they call them these days

[09:28:08]

justinh:

I was dealing with ASIO, and even that wouldn't go down far enough

[09:28:20]

rwat:

Mac Pro

[09:28:28]

justinh:

it was *just* *about* okay at the minimum settings but nothing like realtime really

[09:28:34]

Dibblah:

ASIO doesn't make a difference to either the hardware latency or the software latency.

[09:28:37]

justinh:

still noticable

[09:28:56]

justinh:

there's just no replacement for hardware monitoring

[09:29:11]

justinh:

or hardware mixing :)

[09:29:21]

justinh:

or hardware control surfaces :P

[09:30:54]

justinh:

speaking of which.. that really cool Novation controller for Ableton is out soon

[09:40:35]

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[09:50:01]

justinh:

WTF is it with everybody regurgitating the RC1 announcement and using million year old screenshots?

[09:50:41]

sid3windr:

ARE WE THERE YET?

[09:50:45]

oobe:

people are excited

[09:51:12]

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[09:51:23]

justinh:

but using screenshots of old defunct themes. Pfft

[09:51:32]

justinh:

look! see how new it is!

[09:52:59]

Dibblah:

Yeah, but will it run on http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-B . . . em1c0c7f697f

[09:58:33]

justinh:

no but you could make a nice HA control panel with that

[09:59:36]

justinh:

not to mention whole house audio client :)

[10:01:25]

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[10:02:13]

Dibblah:

Yeah. I am... seriously considering it.

[10:02:36]

justinh:

cheaper than most 'web radio' boxes ffs

[10:02:53]

justinh:

most of the ones worth having anyway

[10:03:19]

Dibblah:

However, for a few more $$$, you get a beagleboard.

[10:03:25]

Dibblah:

Choices, choices :(

[10:03:43]

Dibblah:

Admittedly, the beagle doesn't have a screen.

[10:05:09]

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[10:11:14]

justinh:

do you have a roughly timeframe? lol

[10:11:27]

justinh:

is me speaky eenglish enough good?

[10:12:01]

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[10:16:06]

Dibblah:

?

[10:16:24]

Dibblah:

Bloody better than my Chinese.

[10:18:21]

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[10:19:32]

justinh:

and wth is up with the bbc not being on for sharing iplayer tech with other broadcasters? imagine if they'd held the cards for colour TV, nicam, teletext....

[10:21:54]

Dibblah:

Eh?

[10:22:03]

Dibblah:

Everyone has their own versions of iplayer.

[10:22:21]

justinh:

there was talk of a common platform. great for viewers

[10:22:32]

Dibblah:

Iff it was open.

[10:22:37]

Dibblah:

Which iPlayer is not.

[10:22:40]

justinh:

didn't have to be open

[10:22:55]

Dibblah:

Yes, it does. Otherwise one company has control.

[10:23:09]

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[10:23:26]

justinh:

you cant watch 4OD, or five's ondemand stuff in linux.. nor ITV AFAIK

[10:23:39]

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[10:24:01]

justinh:

not without virtual machines & junk like that

[10:25:33]

justinh:

heh someone on el reg says it's Murdoch's fault

[10:25:48]

Dibblah:

Sure about that?

[10:26:08]

justinh:

not that I'd ever want to watch anything from ITV or C4

[10:26:19]

Dibblah:

http://demand.five.tv/Episode.aspx?episodeBaseName=C5148790003

[10:26:24]

Dibblah:

Works fine here...

[10:27:03]

Dibblah:

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/daredevils/4od#2973518

[10:27:06]

Dibblah:

Also works...

[10:27:37]

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[10:27:45]

justinh:

thought they were all external apps :-\

[10:27:46]

Dibblah:

http://www.itv.com/ITVPlayer/Video/default.ht . . . ilter=105166

[10:27:51]

Dibblah:

Also works...

[10:28:01]

Dibblah:

All flash.

[10:28:17]

justinh:

last time I tried 4OD I needed WMP11

[10:28:25]

justinh:

& shite like that with Five too

[10:28:28]

Dibblah:

Now, anyway. 6 months ago, it was different, of course.

[10:28:50]

justinh:

not that any of this really matters if you've got mythtv :)

[10:29:06]

justinh:

assuming you keep up to speed with upcoming stuff

[10:29:07]

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[10:29:14]

Dibblah:

Hmm. The mini2440 is 3w with display active.

[10:29:29]

justinh:

three watts? Oh noes!

[10:29:45]

justinh:

wall warts waste more than that doing nothing half the time :)

[10:29:46]

Doods:

hey peoples. I'm using XBMC as a front end (mythbox) and I can connect to my MythTV database fine and everything, including recording and guide, works except for watching TV. The following error message comes up http://yfrog.com/18screengdwj and also here is a list of what the mythbackend is saying when I try to connect to a tv channel through XBMC – http://pastebin.com/m265f4245

[10:29:49]

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[10:29:58]

justinh:

Doods: XBMC is not supported here

[10:30:35]

justinh:

but your unconnected encoder error looks like a user setup problem

[10:30:53]

justinh:

as in – maybe you didn't follow all the steps in mythtv-setup

[10:31:08]

Dibblah:

Doods: You're not the only one with issues with XBMC frontends. But as justinh said, it's not something we have experience of here :(

[10:31:18]

justinh:

as much as anyone will be able to tell from ONE FRICKIN LINE of log output

[10:31:38]

justinh:

but at least you bothered with a pastebin :P

[10:31:51]

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[10:32:12]

Doods:

justinh: well I'm not only using XBMC, it's trying to connect to MythTV backend – just seeing if there's any expertise around

[10:32:29]

justinh:

let's see the whole mythbackend log

[10:32:41]

justinh:

from when it starts up to the point you try to watch tv

[10:32:49]

Doods:

Dibblah: no probs, thought I would throw the question out there in case anyone here has seen the issue before..

[10:33:24]

justinh:

IIRC 'mythbox' is the XBMC plugin for watching mythtv recordings & stuff

[10:34:16]

justinh:

and you didn't say which version of mythtv you're using

[10:35:09]

Doods:

Using MythTV 0.21 and I'm getting the whole log of mythbackend (btw – watching TV works fine when using Mythfrontend)

[10:35:28]

justinh:

so I'll be of no help then

[10:35:40]

justinh:

I mean I don't use XBMC, I use a real frontend :)

[10:35:59]

Dibblah:

Talk to the XBMC folks.

[10:36:04]

justinh:

you probably need to take the problem to whoever makes 'mythbox'

[10:36:11]

sid3windr:

muffbox

[10:36:39]

justinh:

anyway I thought there was no need of external plugins – thought XBMC had all gone native ages ago

[10:38:53]

Doods:

yeah I'm asking the XBMC folks...they'll probably tell me to come to you guys :) I appreciate you having a little look anyway..almost got my full mythbackend log

[10:39:13]

justinh:

Doods: if mythfrontend works fine there's NO problem with your mythtv setup

[10:39:14]

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[10:39:20]

justinh:

so that's the good news :)

[10:39:49]

Doods:

and here it is: http://pastebin.com/m51eaa006

[10:40:24]

justinh:

unless something weird is going on like you need mythbackend to be bound to a LAN IP address – as you would with *any* other remote frontend

[10:40:31]

Doods:

justinh: haha yeah figured that ..just thought maybe there was a tweak when allowing a third party app to connect...dunno

[10:40:39]

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[10:41:02]

justinh:

bingo

[10:41:18]

Doods:

yeah I've only got it setup as host address (127.0.0.1) haven't converted to IP .. might try that .. but xbmc connects anyhow

[10:41:35]

Doods:

hmm

[10:41:37]

justinh:

XBMC on the same machine *should* be ok

[10:41:48]

justinh:

but the general use case for it would be on a remote box.

[10:41:53]

Doods:

nod

[10:42:10]

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[10:42:12]

Doods:

so my mythbackend looks ok then ?

[10:42:31]

justinh:

that and you've not set 'mythbox' to the right protocol version

[10:43:03]

Doods:

what is the right protocol version

[10:43:10]

justinh:

MainServer::HandleVersion – Client speaks protocol version 8 but we speak 40!

[10:43:21]

Doods:

hmm k

[10:43:21]

justinh:

damn you, plain English error messages!

[10:43:30]

sid3windr:

lol

[10:43:36]

sid3windr:

version 8?

[10:43:42]

sid3windr:

isnt that like 1992 ? :>

[10:43:47]

justinh:

probably

[10:44:19]

justinh:

IIRC there's a setting for it

[10:44:24]

justinh:

in the XBMC plugin

[10:44:29]

Dibblah:

XBMC probes for the proto version.

[10:44:41]

justinh:

XBMC does, not 'mythbox'

[10:44:47]

Dibblah:

And then switches to whatever dialect Myth uses.

[10:44:50]

Doods:

yeah im in the plugin now... got 'master backend port and hostname'

[10:46:32]

justinh:

sigh. not making me any more of a fan

[10:47:40]

Doods:

alas thanks guys for taking a quick look for m e

[10:47:44]

justinh:

wonder when they took the protocol ver. setting out

[10:48:23]

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[10:48:23]

Dibblah:

Like I said, it probes.

[10:48:23]

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[10:49:01]

justinh:

serves me right for not keeping up to date with it

[10:49:13]

justinh:

but I stopped paying attention to it once I got a real frontend :)

[10:49:29]

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[10:49:32]

Doods:

hehe

[10:49:43]

Doods:

is that the MythTV frontend or something else ?

[10:49:43]

justinh:

xboxes are too noisy & fugly for use as frontends

[10:49:59]

Doods:

I'm using an Asrock ION as front end.. nice little thing.. not a squeak

[10:50:01]

justinh:

there is only one real mythtv frontend. And that'll be mythfrontend

[10:50:11]

Dibblah:

Doods: So run MythFE on it! :)

[10:50:20]

justinh:

I don't care for 'other' apps much

[10:50:43]

justinh:

for watching mythtv stuff nothing beats mythfrontend

[10:50:56]

Doods:

well I've got it on there, but it's too slow to load up...don't think my box is powerful enough for it... it takes 10 to 15 seconds everytime to run through the screen preparation thing

[10:51:11]

Doods:

once I'm in it's ok tho

[10:51:18]

justinh:

other apps may be 'better' than mythfrontend for other stuff, but *no* other app is perfect

[10:52:40]

justinh:

I missed that in the 'new theme' thread on -users. "I am bumping this subject again". Yeah. Threads in mailing lists can be bumped to the top

[10:52:53]

justinh:

in Gossamer-threads

[10:54:27]

Doods:

just loaded mythfrontend then and 'prescaling theme images' took 1 minute....tried it twice and same result. Might try changing the theme actually

[10:54:56]

justinh:

if your home directory is writable it should only scale those images once

[10:55:35]

Doods:

where abouts does it put it in the home directory

[10:55:43]

justinh:

why, in .mythtv of course

[10:55:55]

justinh:

$home/.mythtv/themecache

[10:56:01]

Doods:

well it should be writable.. let me see

[10:56:54]

Doods:

i dont have a theme directoru under /.mythtv

[10:57:09]

Doods:

or even a file

[10:57:09]

justinh:

~/.mythtv/themecache ? not at all ?

[10:57:15]

Doods:

nope

[10:57:29]

justinh:

ls -al ~/.mythtv

[10:58:19]

Doods:

nope it just has mysql.txt and mysql.txt~

[10:58:29]

justinh:

weird

[10:58:37]

justinh:

that'll be the problem then

[10:58:44]

Doods:

hmm permissions thing i think

[10:59:02]

justinh:

might also be screwing up XBMC not being able to write to your own home dir :P

[10:59:06]

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[10:59:15]

Doods:

hmmz

[10:59:28]

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[10:59:39]

Doods:

so... sudo chmod -R 777 ~/.mythtv ?

[10:59:51]

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[11:00:35]

Doods:

ok prescaling again

[11:00:41]

Doods:

let's see if it sticks this time

[11:00:43]

** justinh goes for lunchies **

[11:00:53]

Doods:

enjoy – thanks for the help

[11:00:57]

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[11:02:40]

Doods:

well that fixed it!

[11:02:43]

Doods:

:D

[11:02:53]

Doods:

ur a champ justinh – thanks

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[11:37:26]

justinh:

have to wonder how you end up not being able to write to your own directories :P

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[12:00:18]

resno_:

Has anyone else noticed the text on myth .22 is hard to see? (on "admin" screens)?

[12:00:59]

Dibblah:

resno_: Use a .22 theme.

[12:01:18]

resno_:

Dibblah: i used graphite and it was even worse

[12:01:18]

Dibblah:

(or alter qtlook.txt for your broken .21 theme)

[12:03:32]

Dibblah:

Current trunk?

[12:03:45]

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[12:04:11]

justinh:

a pox on non-mythui screens

[12:04:44]

justinh:

if folks mean trunk can they please say trunk. and if they mean 0.22RC1 say that? ;-)

[12:06:17]

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[12:07:01]

resno_:

justinh: i installed it using komac. so i imagine .22rc1

[12:07:14]

justinh:

wtf is komac?

[12:07:15]

resno_:

the beta ubunutu

[12:07:43]

justinh:

you *imagine* it's 0.22RC1 ?

[12:07:44]

resno_:

i can never remember the release name

[12:07:47]

justinh:

mythfrontend --version

[12:08:39]

resno_:

while i was working on the backend it froze, give me a sec to restart it

[12:09:14]

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[12:09:48]

justinh:

mythbackend has a tendency to fall over if you mess with some settings while it's still up

[12:09:48]

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[12:09:56]

resno_:

i have encountered a few times, where it was going to send developers the "debugging" or "core dump" information.

[12:10:14]

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[12:10:17]

unklemyth:

hi all :)

[12:10:48]

unklemyth:

Im fiddling with keypad-strokes on an LCD. Anyone got it working with mythlcdserver ?

[12:11:15]

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[12:11:35]

justinh:

ruh?

[12:12:19]

justinh:

surely it'd be more likely to work with lirc or some other input handler

[12:12:36]

justinh:

as opposed to something designed to *output* stuff on LCDs

[12:12:49]

unklemyth:

oh sorry, i though i had to parse the keystrokes via lcdd

[12:12:49]

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[12:13:16]

justinh:

you might, but that still has nothing to do with mythlcdserver

[12:13:57]

unklemyth:

LCDd catches the keys in non-daemon-mode so i (naively) thought that it was just a question of "hooking" it up to mythlcdserver by generating the right keystroke-names.

[12:14:43]

unklemyth:

I'll forget about LCDd then ;) ...so, lirc is the way to go. So i need to monitor my device /dev/ttyUSB0 and then parse the keystrokes in my lirc.conf ?

[12:16:03]

unklemyth:

and for debugging i image i can use irw if i first connect the lircd to dev/ttyUSB0... maybe a dumb question but will my traditional remote then work in parallel ? (it runs on another device)

[12:16:12]

justinh:

nuts. I was wrong about that

[12:16:26]

justinh:

found some docs which tell you what you're meant to do

[12:16:39]

unklemyth:

meeh... im a bit confused ? lirc or lcdd then ?

[12:17:20]

justinh:

look what google returned as the first hit on "mythlcdserver" http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythlcdserver

[12:17:32]

unklemyth:

i googled "lcdproc keystroke" and lots of googling the CFontz display i have but about 97% is for windows and lcdproc seems a bit stale at the time

[12:19:12]

unklemyth:

thanks, although i had not seen the wiki it does not really adress my problem as it seems to be the bit where mythlcdserver gets the keystrokes that im missing

[12:19:13]

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[12:20:02]

unklemyth:

but, from the wiki, it might be that my aging 0.21 is having trouble with lcdproc

[12:20:06]

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[12:20:48]

justinh:

I always meant to look at using a VFD one day but my heart just isn't in it

[12:20:51]

unklemyth:

what i hoped for was a way to debug it and tell whether or not mythlcdserver sees the keystrokes at all. I'll try running the server on commandline and enable the debugging

[12:21:07]

justinh:

sounds like a plan

[12:21:34]

unklemyth:

hehe, sound fair. I hope that i can use it for browsing my mp3's on the mythbox without turning my (CRT) TV on... :)

[12:21:54]

** GreyFoxx renames lib/libmythtv/NuppleVideoPlayer.cpp to ffplay.c **

[12:21:59]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[12:22:27]

justinh:

yes because CRT TV boot times are ridiculous

[12:22:44]

unklemyth:

exactly... could use an overclocking of some sort...

[12:22:55]

justinh:

get a voltage doubler

[12:23:32]

unklemyth:

anyway, the info you get on the LCD is actually quite useful in daily use... it even monitors multiple streams when recording from several sources at once... is cool ;)

[12:23:50]

justinh:

I watch TV, not displays :)

[12:24:04]

unklemyth:

lol ! i guess im a control-freak then ;D

[12:24:09]

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[12:24:13]

justinh:

that my FE has a power LED on the front is almost too much

[12:24:47]

unklemyth:

heh, i dismounted the power and HD-leds on mine... to much flickering from them

[12:24:57]

justinh:

no HDD in my frontend

[12:26:00]

unklemyth:

nice nice :) ...i run a fanless epia with an 800MHz not much sound from that either, but an SSD would be real nice

[12:26:49]

justinh:

now a status box slapped inside unused space on mythtv's menu screens.. *that* would be useful :)

[12:27:31]

justinh:

might look at the miniplayer app now it's converted to mythui & see if it can't be coaxed into displaying generic info

[12:27:36]

unklemyth:

...-and- some "fast-record" buttons on mythweb as well ;)

[12:28:02]

justinh:

been down the flea-pea ayeyay route once already. it was nice while it still worked

[12:28:02]

unklemyth:

hmmm... you want a kind of overlay for displaying stats and so on ?

[12:28:25]

justinh:

just a general purpose display gadget which can appear over the UI

[12:28:31]

justinh:

I doubt it's beyond my capability

[12:28:57]

justinh:

another one for the to-do list :)

[12:30:32]

justinh:

ooo and if it could listen to mythnotify events...

[12:30:37]

unklemyth:

i know 0 about the gui and the QT-drawing its all too techy for me, but I would imagine that a dedicated area in the GUI wouldn't be too advanced too make for someone with knowledge of the gui. A sort of area that takes generic strings from a setup-screen inside myth... (?)

[12:30:44]

unklemyth:

lol

[12:31:04]

unklemyth:

im not that much of a control-freak then ;)

[12:31:07]

justinh:

unklemyth: that or something way more generic

[12:31:20]

justinh:

unklemyth: if a job's worth doing :D

[12:32:01]

unklemyth:

if you could do a "paragraph" or "div" on all the GUI-screens and reserve this area for generic strings you would be on the way i guess

[12:32:07]

justinh:

eew

[12:32:24]

unklemyth:

haha... i guess my suggestion is -not- the way to do it ?

[12:32:35]

justinh:

I'd only set aside one line on *all* screens

[12:32:53]

unklemyth:

with an 80'ish scrolling feat ;)

[12:32:57]

justinh:

but for menus – if you only want the info to appear on menus

[12:33:29]

justinh:

a scroller would be one of the goals, yeah

[12:33:40]

justinh:

not just text though

[12:34:25]

justinh:

or have 'pages' defined in a theme xml to show system status, weather, news items on a cyclical basis

[12:35:42]

unklemyth:

oh would be very nice indeed ! :p

[12:36:20]

unklemyth:

well... on the lcd-topic. I just got this from mythlcdserver on cmd-line: LCDProcClient: WARNING: Something is gettingpassed to LCDd that it doesn't understand

[12:36:35]

justinh:

too new/old LCDProc ?

[12:37:02]

unklemyth:

so... it does show all the screens through lcdproc, but it might be a bit incompatible (a bit incompatible?) with my lcdproc-version then :-/

[12:38:47]

unklemyth:

also.. pressing buttons gets registered in lcdproc, but no reaction from mythlcdserver:

[12:38:51]

unklemyth:

Driver [CFontzPacket] generated keystroke Right

[12:38:51]

unklemyth:

Driver [CFontzPacket] generated keystroke Left

[12:38:51]

unklemyth:

Driver [CFontzPacket] generated keystroke Enter

[12:39:19]

unklemyth:

and yes... my keystrokes should be "A", "B" and "C" and so on :-/

[12:39:20]

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[12:39:37]

justinh:

think you need to edit your lcdproc config then :)

[12:39:50]

unklemyth:

but, i cannot figure out how to rename them. They might be hardcoded in the CFontzdriver :s

[12:39:50]

justinh:

just from my very brief encounter with the subject

[12:40:43]

unklemyth:

i agree, youre right, but as mentioned above im running my head against the wall. I've tried locating the CFontz-code but only found a .so file :-/

[12:40:57]

unklemyth:

im way in over my head !

[12:41:07]

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[12:42:00]

justinh:

http://linux.die.net/man/5/lcdproc-config

[12:43:28]

justinh:

otherwise it looks like lcdproc has changed the way they handle keypresses & your version of mythtv isn't ok with that

[12:43:58]

justinh:

I don't remember seeing any commit notes for lcdproc compatibility recently but that doesn't mean there haven't been any#

[12:44:02]

unklemyth:

thanks, been there, I can make the [menu] section work and it responds to keystrokes succesfully, but again, getting those keystrokes passed to mythlcdserver is where im having trouble

[12:45:11]

unklemyth:

it might be worth trying to upgrade my lcdproc maybe.. its a 5.2.0 and according to the wiki-link from earlier the mythlcdserver should go with 5.3.0 in 21-fixes which i have

[12:46:26]

unklemyth:

(i doubt that this would make the difference though)

[12:46:34]

unklemyth:

but i cant rule it out, for sure

[12:49:08]

unklemyth:

ill try tampering with it and i'll report back if theres any progress (just for reference)

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[13:01:41]

Dibblah:

There were some lcdproc changes.

[13:02:41]

Dibblah:

[20589]

[13:02:53]

justinh:

just thought of something refreshing. you know how we don't see many other UK people here during the day? that's cos they all have fulfulling (well paid at any rate) jobs

[13:02:58]

Dibblah:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6146#comment:2

[13:03:16]

Dibblah:

No, it's cos they're all watching cash in the attic.

[13:03:42]

justinh:

what's that?

[13:03:51]

justinh:

a telly programme?

[13:03:55]

Dibblah:

Daytime TV. You don't want to know.

[13:05:27]

justinh:

I don't watch anything during the day when I'm off work – or if I do it's night time telly

[13:07:10]

justinh:

ITV? Oh we don't *have* ITV in our house. We is porsh :P

[13:07:18]

justinh:

I wish, btw

[13:09:27]

justinh:

well, seen as I'm bored I may aswell start drawing up how this info thingy might work

[13:09:28]

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[13:11:54]

justinh:

heh. not much to miniplayer.cpp

[13:12:16]

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[13:12:41]

justinh:

incidentally this is gonna be another 'if it was so simple in principle why the hell hasn't anybody else done it yet?'

[13:12:57]

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[13:14:53]

josh_:

sphery, I installed the wt-webkitpackage from portage, but mythtv's configure is still complaining that Qtwebkit headers still can't be found..

[13:15:02]

Yetiszaf:

is there a way to control mythtv-frontend from another PC? Specifically I am thinking about building a remote-control unit with a touchscreen ...

[13:15:53]

justinh:

telnet interface ftw!

[13:15:57]

justinh:

telnet interface I say!

[13:17:09]

justinh:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Telnet

[13:17:38]

josh_:

On further reading it seems like Gentoo puts QTWebkit in another place besides the one mythtv looks for

[13:19:02]

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[13:19:41]

Dibblah:

Yetiszaf: See the mini2440 links from ebay ;)

[13:20:03]

Dibblah:

You'll have to do some software, of course.

[13:20:19]

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[13:20:46]

Yetiszaf:

Seems nice for now.

[13:21:37]

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[13:22:14]

Yetiszaf:

I was not really thinking that small, I've got a 15" Touchscreen lying around and was hoping to get the TV-Listing-Window onto that while displaying the Video full screen on the TV.

[13:22:27]

josh_:

but that bug was supposedly fixed

[13:22:43]

justinh:

oh dear

[13:23:03]

justinh:

Yetiszaf: you can't do that

[13:23:12]

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[13:23:22]

justinh:

you'd have to write your own app

[13:24:12]

highzeth:

are there any more info on the mythsocket timeout on 2.6.31 kernel? http://cp.ohhh.no/p/m7ee95dce

[13:24:16]

justinh:

a better way would be to stop thinking about tv as it happens in real time & plan your viewing instead

[13:24:25]

Dibblah:

Yetiszaf: There's a full specification on the wiki for you to follow, though. ;) ;)

[13:26:00]

justinh:

sitting in front of live tv shows with an electronic version of today's newspaper TV Guide.. how very quaint!

[13:26:02]

Yetiszaf:

justinh: I would, but there is not really enough stuff one wants to see on TV in Germany and I'm usually just zapping through in the evening. All the stuff I want to see gets recorded anyhow.

[13:26:41]

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[13:27:13]

justinh:

everything you *watch* gets recorded :P

[13:27:55]

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[13:28:24]

Yetiszaf:

Well, it's more a case of "Sitting in front of a TV watching a stupid show with an electronic TV-Guide in my hand to look if there's something more interesting"

[13:29:01]

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[13:29:50]

Yetiszaf:

And ... I'm not thinking about this because I need it, I want to use the touchscreen for something more appropriate than catching dust.

[13:30:01]

resno_:

justinh: i am running release 0-22-rc1

[13:30:13]

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[13:42:15]

justinh:

fucking fuckety fuck and UN-FACTS http://www.gunaxin.com/the-new-features-of-mythtv-22/29648

[13:42:27]

justinh:

where's the guy's email address?

[13:43:11]

** CyberKnet glances in justinh's direction **

[13:43:42]

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[13:44:08]

justinh:

some of the new mythui features include (yada yada) "Animation – Allows for object movement and image animation"

[13:45:29]

CyberKnet:

saw that. I thought that was a 0.23 feature?

[13:45:48]

justinh:

it might very well be

[13:46:17]

justinh:

it had no place being mentioned in the 'sneak preview' they did previously, nor in this one either

[13:46:18]

CyberKnet:

Well, it's on teh internets now. Have to do it for 0.22

[13:46:45]

CyberKnet:

:D

[13:47:25]

CyberKnet:

at least he makes a nice mention of viddy pow

[13:47:28]

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[13:47:38]

iamlindoro:

Always interesting to see what things people key in on as being the "major" features... and which ones they make up

[13:48:17]

CyberKnet:

which ones they make up ;)

[13:48:41]

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[13:49:52]

justinh:

oo he plans to replace his back end machine with a powerful front end machine

[13:50:01]

justinh:

how the hell is he gonna record anything? :P

[13:50:36]

justinh:

what a cock

[13:50:56]

CyberKnet:

weird that he plans to get the N230-toting Acer Aspire Revo

[13:51:14]

CyberKnet:

and not one of the N330 nettops that are around

[13:51:16]

justinh:

contacted him to correct the 'facts'

[13:51:21]

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[13:51:47]

CyberKnet:

I wonder if he runs trunk

[13:52:00]

CyberKnet:

and if so, what led him to believe 0.22 will contain animation

[13:52:05]

justinh:

doesn't worry me when people post this crap so much as the fact people re-iterate what they say and endorse it

[13:52:05]

iamlindoro:

Heh, so some guy has created a way to use Windows Media Center as a "network tuner" for Sage TV, allowing one to intercept cablecard recordings... and people are going nuts about it... but conveniently missing/not realizing that the only stuff you can intercept is the CableCard content marked "copy freely"

[13:52:18]

iamlindoro:

meaning it's a really, really, really expensive ClearQAM tuner

[13:52:26]

CyberKnet:

heh

[13:52:57]

CyberKnet:

We all want a cable card tuner – but not if it can only access ClearQAM ;)

[13:53:08]

CyberKnet:

until then – hdpvr

[13:53:11]

janneg:

there is no encrypted content marked as "copy freely"?

[13:53:23]

iamlindoro:

janneg, Basically no

[13:54:10]

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[13:54:24]

CyberKnet:

would be rather amusing if they marked the commercials as copy freely

[13:54:27]

CyberKnet:

heh

[13:54:41]

iamlindoro:

They "relaxed" the standards recently to allow the cable headend to choose the copy status of cablecard content (rather than encrypting all recordings made with it), but from what I have been reading everyone is just marking the network channels copy freely and encrypting everything else, as expected

[13:55:51]

CyberKnet:

When there is no way to vote with your dollars short of not spending them ... they have no incentive to do anything else – because most of us aren't about to just not have cable.

[13:55:52]

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[13:56:05]

CyberKnet:

sorry saps that we are.

[13:56:37]

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[13:57:05]

janneg:

cable companies here want to encrypt everything for two reasons

[13:57:08]

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[13:57:13]

CyberKnet:

I tell you what though – if they *did* give us full access to content I imagine I'd spend more.

[13:57:51]

janneg:

1) making it easier to buy pay channels since everyone needs to have the required equipment

[13:59:10]

janneg:

and 2) it makes switching new/leaving customers on/off physically obsolete

[13:59:12]

CyberKnet:

Something like AT&T's uVerse service has enormous potential since (as far as I understand from my limited reading) it's all IP to begin with. But with AT&T in the name... ;)

[13:59:44]

janneg:

2) is kind of silly since we'll have analog cable for years

[14:00:07]

josh_:

I'm having an issue compiling the latest mythtv trunk build, configure is complaining about QTwebkit, and I have the qtwebkit package installed, but it still is not fulfilling the dependancy

[14:00:42]

CyberKnet:

janneg: also because they could still provide some interface that gave decrypted access to the content – like firewire out that wasn't hindered by 5C – yet do they?

[14:00:47]

janneg:

josh_: depending on your distro you probably need the qtwebkit -dev or -devel package

[14:02:04]

josh_:

janneg, I'm running gentoo, and don't see a -dev package for the qtwebkit package

[14:02:08]

Dibblah:

On the specific network I'm on, they turned analogue off some time ago.

[14:02:09]

janneg:

CyberKnet: this is germany, we don't have firewire anabled STBs

[14:02:19]

CyberKnet:

I don't like required equipment – I think it's a bit of a sham that you can be required to rent equipment – but if I have to pay to rent it, at least let me choose how to watch it. I think a MythTV person should start lobbying to be the next FCC chairman ;)

[14:02:33]

justinh:

if everything just went ondemand or IPTV based they could even just bill you for what you use.

[14:02:35]

CyberKnet:

janneg: Don't feel too badly about that. It didn't help us out in the USA much either.

[14:02:57]

CyberKnet:

justinh: Yeah, and we'd all probably use more

[14:03:00]

justinh:

heck they could even screw that & give everybody full a la carte channel choices

[14:03:05]

janneg:

josh_: no dev packages on gentoo, which qt version?

[14:03:17]

CyberKnet:

justinh: Disney won't let them. They want us all to be forced to have ESPN

[14:03:23]

justinh:

but they make enough of a pigs ear of things with their ridiculous packages

[14:04:36]

CyberKnet:

Someone mythtv-savvy needs to be the next chairman of the FCC

[14:04:36]

justinh:

disney? who the heck are disney? ;-)

[14:04:55]

justinh:

I'll take everything we have on freeview, plus Sky One, plus maybe Discovery & Scyfy

[14:05:15]

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[14:05:22]

justinh:

and if they offered HBO I might take their arm off

[14:05:37]

Dibblah:

You get lots more than freeview.

[14:05:46]

Dibblah:

Hundreds more shopping channels.

[14:05:49]

Dibblah:

;)

[14:05:57]

josh_:

janneg, I've currently got qt-core-4.5.2 installed.

[14:06:13]

janneg:

Dibblah: oh, times are changing slowly here, analog satellite switch-off is scheduled for april 2012 and the cable companies said that they will carry analog signals for years

[14:06:14]

justinh:

Dibblah: but wouldn't a la carte channel lineups be neat? ;)

[14:06:33]

Dibblah:

Not Going To Happen.

[14:06:37]

justinh:

or just pure IPTV we can get at with computers

[14:06:41]

justinh:

yeah I know that

[14:06:48]

justinh:

nor is IPTV we can get at with computers

[14:07:18]

janneg:

which is understandable with only 10% for cable users using digital cable

[14:07:28]

j-rod:

iamlindoro: dunno if you saw my reply last night, or if you replied to my reply... (too much traffic, apparently all scrolled off the end of my proxy's playback)

[14:07:41]

janneg:

josh_: do you have qt-webkit installed?

[14:07:50]

** Dibblah wonders if there'll be a 40nm respin of the ION chipset... **

[14:07:51]

justinh:

janneg: we're at almost 100% digital cable here IIRC

[14:07:53]

Captain_Murdoch:

sphery, iamlindoro, is the 100% cpu just because of the alphapulse or because of negative coordinates combined with alphapulse?

[14:08:03]

Dibblah:

The combination.

[14:08:03]

j-rod:

iamlindoro: in short, my vitriol was supposed to be directed at the OP, not you. :)

[14:08:14]

iamlindoro:

j-rod, saw the response, thanks :)

[14:08:35]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, I am not 100% sure, but fairly certain it's the combination of both

[14:08:48]

justinh:

blame rotatepulse

[14:08:50]

justinh:

whoops.

[14:09:38]

josh_:

janneg, currently installed: x11-libs/qt-webkit-4.5.2-r1

[14:10:03]

Dibblah:

Has someone who sees the 100% CPU done a oprofile?

[14:10:16]

Dibblah:

/ callgraph?

[14:10:56]

CyberKnet:

josh_: What dist?

[14:10:56]

j-rod:

janneg: so it turns out I apparently picked the worst possible time to send the lirc bits — everyone's at the kernel summit during the day, drinking sake in the evening, and sleeping it off at night

[14:11:00]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, Highest I can get it pushed up on stock Graphite is 55%... remove the alphapulse and it drops to 30%

[14:11:03]

josh_:

CyberKnet, gentoo.

[14:11:15]

iamlindoro:

Captain_Murdoch, going to hack out the negative coordinates now and see if it drops further

[14:11:56]

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[14:11:56]

j-rod:

iamlindoro: fwiw, graphite on an ion here, and no such issues

[14:12:03]

janneg:

Dibblah: I don't think oprofile would help, we know that the redraw is causing the 100% cpu

[14:12:22]

justinh:

you'd have to take the gl painter apart I think

[14:12:26]

j-rod:

fedora 12, nvidia 190.40 drivers, 0-22-fixes build from svn of yesterday afternoon

[14:12:36]

justinh:

but it's not that complex, so dogknows where the problem is

[14:12:59]

justinh:

prolly needs a gl expert to look at it in fairness

[14:13:06]

iamlindoro:

j-rod, Captain_Murdoch, justinh: Negative coordinates removed with no noticeable CPU drop

[14:13:22]

justinh:

iamlindoro: fixed the issue you mean?

[14:13:29]

janneg:

j-rod: or maybe a good time since the core of the "why is it not using the input layer" will miss it

[14:13:33]

justinh:

or just removed the neggies?

[14:13:35]

iamlindoro:

nope, still sits at 30% CPU use for me

[14:13:40]

justinh:

heh

[14:13:58]

justinh:

the only thing is that with alphapulse the screen is constantly being redrawn

[14:14:08]

j-rod:

janneg: I was thinking of replying to myself and saying "no feedback? that means its all perfect and mergeable, right?" :)

[14:14:10]

iamlindoro:

most tangible improvement comes from removing the alphapulse, but I'm not able to reproduce the 100% CPU use so maybe I'm not seeing the core issue at all

[14:14:16]

Dibblah:

iamlindoro: Are you sure all cached versions were clear?

[14:14:37]

Dibblah:

I know, sucking eggs and all that :(

[14:14:41]

CyberKnet:

josh_: I'd follow Cardoe's guide if it is still current

[14:14:43]

justinh:

so either something in mythui code is really daft somehow – or the way opengl is used is sub-optimal

[14:14:49]

CyberKnet:

josh_: http://dev.gentoo.org/~cardoe/mythtv/

[14:14:52]

justinh:

there's little else to it really

[14:15:04]

Captain_Murdoch:

so it's just the 70-per-second refresh. I wonder how much of that is driver version related as well. some could be using nv, others various versions of nvidia binary.

[14:15:15]

janneg:

josh_: please paste the config.ep to a pastebin

[14:15:20]

CyberKnet:

oh. it's not nearlly complete.

[14:15:43]

iamlindoro:

Dibblah, Just cleared the cache and tried again, still can't get it up over 50%

[14:15:55]

justinh:

iamlindoro: out of interest with my fx patch was it any different?

[14:16:10]

iamlindoro:

justinh, Not that I saw

[14:16:29]

Dibblah:

iamlindoro: BTW, I don't see many real issues with the list you posted to -dev.

[14:16:53]

iamlindoro:

I'm really not sure I'm actually tripping whatever it is the 100% CPU lot are seeing

[14:16:53]

justinh:

from what I read up about gl, we're not doing anything outside the realms of common practise anyway

[14:16:53]

chainsawf is now known as chainsawbike

[14:16:53]

iamlindoro:

granted, 50% still seems high, but it's not 100%

[14:17:05]

Dibblah:

The 100% report is on an atom.

[14:17:07]

iamlindoro:

Dibblah, the settings list? Cool

[14:17:11]

Dibblah:

Yeah.

[14:17:25]

justinh:

iamlindoro: I saw one issue but Dibblah made me see sense

[14:17:31]

Dibblah:

Don't want the argument to break out here, so keeping quiet ;)

[14:17:35]

iamlindoro:

justdave, heh

[14:17:37]

iamlindoro:

er justinh

[14:17:44]

iamlindoro:

Dibblah, thanks ;)

[14:18:01]

iamlindoro:

Think the best I can hope for is apathetic silence, so maybe it's best to just start ripping stuff out

[14:19:10]

j-rod:

iamlindoro: I only skimmed, but didn't see anything I'd object to seeing ripped out

[14:19:35]

j-rod:

and I'm definitely in the camp that thinks there are too many goddamn knobs

[14:19:45]

j-rod:

oh, wait

[14:19:46]

justinh:

wah! playback profiles per day of week!

[14:19:54]

iamlindoro:

Maybe I'll start by removing a couple at a time, post patches to trac, give it a few days, then apply, in a cycle

[14:19:57]

j-rod:

one thing... the LCD page...

[14:20:19]

j-rod:

I'd definitely trim it down, but maybe not *that* far

[14:20:32]

justinh:

why not define LCD stuff in an xml or something instead?

[14:20:42]

Dibblah:

Yup. LCD themes.

[14:20:51]

j-rod:

that could work

[14:20:58]

justinh:

like sound schemes are gonna work.

[14:21:04]

justinh:

whoops again ;-)

[14:21:30]

Dibblah:

I thought that discussion was only for #mythtv-real-dev?

[14:21:33]

Dibblah:

;) ;)

[14:21:49]

josh_:

janneg, http://coldfire.myftp.org/~mythtv/config.ep

[14:21:59]

justinh:

Dibblah: that's so not funny. but true

[14:22:39]

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[14:22:59]

Messi:

online boxing game http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html

[14:23:00]

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[14:24:30]

justinh:

hmmm bockthing. Pewjillithm. Hi, I'm Kwithh

[14:24:32]

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[14:24:55]

Dibblah:

Ewwwwwbank?

[14:25:01]

CyberKnet:

#mythtv-real-dev?

[14:25:14]

j-rod:

all the cool kids hang out there

[14:25:19]

Dibblah:

For the illuminated.

[14:25:21]

CyberKnet:

I am definitely not cool.

[14:25:26]

CyberKnet:

or illuminated

[14:25:32]

Dibblah:

Or illuminati.

[14:25:33]

janneg:

josh_: do you have pkg-config installed?

[14:25:33]

justinh:

Dibblah: the illuminati you mean

[14:25:52]

josh_:

janneg, it can be...

[14:26:07]

CyberKnet:

I once went to write my own DVR using C# and DirectShow. It proved to me I was not (and am not) one of the illuminati

[14:26:15]

josh_:

janneg, yes, it is.

[14:26:26]

Dibblah:

You should have used perl and mplayer.

[14:26:29]

justinh:

CyberKnet: smart people use perl

[14:26:48]

CyberKnet:

I did my year of hell in perl land. No more, thanks.

[14:27:04]

josh_:

CyberKnet, I'm trying to install trunk, it doesnt appear that cardoe's guide isnt up to date for that purpose.

[14:27:20]

CyberKnet:

josh_: Yeah, I noticed that sorry.

[14:27:22]

justinh:

could be worse. it's not PASCAL on PrimeOS

[14:27:27]

CyberKnet:

josh_: I'm not a gentoo user, sorry.

[14:27:39]

josh_:

CyberKnet, thanks for the suggestion though.

[14:27:46]

CyberKnet:

or ObjectiveC on MacOS

[14:27:47]

CyberKnet:

heh

[14:28:02]

CyberKnet:

josh_: no problem. I try to help where I think I can – but I usually can't ;)

[14:28:15]

janneg:

josh_: what does `pkg-config --modversion QtWebKit` say

[14:28:27]

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[14:29:06]

justinh:

whee. time to go home

[14:29:45]

josh_:

janneg, I'm embarrased. I swear it's installed, but that command replies Package 'QtDBus', required by 'Qtwebkit', not found

[14:30:52]

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[14:31:08]

janneg:

josh_: that sounds strange

[14:31:29]

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[14:31:40]

josh_:

janneg, the package name is actuall "QtWebkit" – notice the lowercase K

[14:32:05]

josh_:

but capitolized that way returns Package QtWebkit was not found in the pkg-config search path.

[14:33:43]

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[14:33:58]

josh_:

janneg, I get diffrent results when I spell it "QtWebkit" and "QtWebKit"

[14:33:59]

janneg:

josh_: the upper case K is correct for me

[14:34:09]

josh_:

janneg, okay, I get it both ways

[14:34:21]

josh_:

the uppercase K returns the QtDbus error

[14:34:32]

josh_:

mabye I should install qtDBus

[14:35:25]

janneg:

josh_: please paste `ls /usr/lib/pkgconfig/Qt*`

[14:36:38]

josh_:

janneg, http://pastebin.ca/1635056

[14:37:38]

janneg:

josh_: the problem goes probably away if you install qt-dbus, but it's stupid from pkg-config to check the deps

[14:37:53]

josh_:

janneg, yeah.

[14:38:04]

josh_:

I guess mythtv's configure is doing it's job though.

[14:38:31]

josh_:

but if the package just won't compile if qtWebkit is missing or non-function, configure should die.

[14:39:08]

josh_:

That's really a gentoo problem also

[14:39:15]

josh_:

Now i"ve got about 10 blocks

[14:39:23]

josh_:

from the qt stuff that's already installed

[14:41:30]

j-rod:

nugget from #lirc: <_Techie_> [23:46:38] am i able to use a webcam with lirc?

[14:42:23]

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[14:50:32]

c4_:

Just testing 0.22-RC1 on a fresh install .. Looks great :) But can the 0.22 frontend work with a 0.21 version?

[14:50:32]

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[14:50:46]

c4_:

%s 0.21 backend version

[14:51:17]

GreyFoxx:

c4_: No

[14:51:21]

janneg:

josh_: both should be fixed in trunk

[14:52:08]

c4_:

Ok

[14:52:23]

josh_:

janneg, I'm having a heck of a time getting all these QT deps installed

[14:53:20]

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[14:53:30]

janneg:

josh_: you don't need to, the webkit check should now work without it

[14:53:33]

josh_:

janneg, so all that should be required is qt-core and qt-webkit?

[14:53:39]

janneg:

and if not, configure will die

[14:54:21]

janneg:

no, qtgui, qtopengl, qtnetwork, and qt3support are at least also requirred

[14:55:06]

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[14:58:21]

josh_:

janneg, qt-network?

[14:58:57]

janneg:

yes, qt-sql with USE=mysql and qt-xml are also requirred

[14:59:00]

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[15:06:12]

yunosh:

is anything else than "recorded" and "recordedprogram" considered when checking whether a show was already recorded?

[15:07:02]

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[15:07:25]

josh_:

yunosh, it depends on your duplicate check method

[15:07:25]

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[15:07:53]

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[15:08:34]

yunosh:

josh_ this search rule is using the default, i.e. subtitle and description

[15:09:06]

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[15:14:11]

joe2371:

As I'm fiddling about, trying to get the MBE set up per my needs, I find I'm hammering schedules direct quite frequently. Is there no way to avoid re-downloading data when refilling the database?

[15:14:34]

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[15:15:16]

iamlindoro:

mfdb will only grab the +1 and +13 values unless you force it to do more

[15:15:29]

iamlindoro:

that is to say, mfdb already minimizes the amount it downloads

[15:15:36]

iamlindoro:

so you're not hammering them too bad

[15:16:03]

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[15:17:34]

joe2371:

OK. But the wgetting has been adding up. Each time I run mfdb, the presumably unnecessary wgetting seems to take up more than a little time.

[15:18:06]

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[15:20:55]

iamlindoro:

So get your system set up properly and stop doing it :)

[15:21:22]

joe2371:

fair enough. :-)

[15:21:42]

iamlindoro:

Nice of you to thin kabout their servers, though-- most people wouldn't

[15:21:56]

iamlindoro:

FWIW there's LOTS of SD bandwidth and plenty to spare :)

[15:22:21]

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[15:22:30]

yunosh:

turns out that "searching one" was not being applied to one show, but the complete search query. so only the first search result was recorded. not so useful, but now that i know...

[15:22:49]

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[15:22:51]

joe2371:

To coin a phrase: "Do unto others' servers as you would have others do unto yours."

[15:23:28]

oobe:

i dont think that one will catch

[15:23:35]

joe2371:

heheh

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[15:33:17]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: There's also a possibility that some of the CPU usage is due to the (flip-book?) animations used by Graphite.

[15:33:53]

iamlindoro:

Good point, my tests this AM were with no recordings running

[15:34:05]

sphery:

josh_: You need to do a make distclean and then reconfigure. If you did that, then you probably need to specify something like: PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/lib/pkgconfig .

[15:35:38]

joe2371:

Running mfdb took 11 minutes. If I do that half a dozen times today, I'll have lost an hour to that overhead.

[15:35:59]

joe2371:

...just sayin.

[15:36:47]

josh_:

sphery, our tests last night were of me running your suggested command, make distclean && find . -name Makefile -delete && svn up

[15:36:47]

iamlindoro:

"Doc, it huts when I do this"

[15:36:49]

iamlindoro:

"Don't do that!"

[15:37:21]

tank-man:

it hurts when i breathe

[15:37:35]

josh_:

tank-man, hold your head underwater!

[15:38:00]

** josh_ sits under the fish tank. **

[15:38:35]

joe2371:

nope... still hurts.

[15:38:37]

sphery:

josh_: OK, so it's not the distclean (btw, the Makefile delete only needs to be done after you attempt a build with qt3). Most likely you need to specify the PKG_CONFIG_PATH where the qtwebkit pc file was installed.

[15:39:06]

josh_:

sphery, I'm going to attempt that next, I need to rebuild my QT dependancies first though.

[15:39:43]

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[15:42:05]

josh_:

sphery, I am getting frustrated with gentoo's need to compile everything – I know, I know, that's one of the "benefits" of gentoo also

[15:42:27]

sphery:

heh

[15:42:35]

sphery:

There's a cure for that...

[15:42:57]

josh_:

sphery, :) Im thinking debian personally.

[15:44:04]

sphery:

Debian's big problem for Myth is its insistence on preventing people from using license-disapproved stuff...

[15:44:19]

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[15:44:22]

josh_:

sphery, ahh, I didn't know of that

[15:44:25]

sphery:

MythBuntu would probably be a better choice for Myth

[15:44:32]

sphery:

(but Debian would be fine for others)

[15:44:36]

josh_:

but I do a lot more than myth on this machine

[15:44:51]

josh_:

I could do the ubuntu-server distro.

[15:45:05]

Huijari:

linux mint is pretty good for myth too.

[15:45:20]

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[15:45:22]

josh_:

Huijari, linux mint? Is that anything like LFS?

[15:45:29]

sphery:

You /can/ make Debian work for Myth, but by the time you're done, you enabled so many external/license-tainted repo's that you're not running Debian, anymore (and losing all the ideals/philosophy of Debian)

[15:45:32]

iamlindoro:

It's like Ubuntu+stuff

[15:45:48]

Huijari:

josh_: nope, it's a ubuntu derivative :)

[15:46:23]

Huijari:

mut looser regarding the restricted stuff

[15:46:36]

sphery:

So, kind of a Eucalyptus candy distro?

[15:46:54]

Huijari:

:D

[15:46:55]

josh_:

Well, this is just the distro for my headless backend. I run ubuntu desktop (or mythbuntu) on my frontend machines, but my backend machine has no need for a lot of that stuff, except the mandatory X related stuff that mythtv requires.

[15:46:55]

Huijari:

yeah

[15:47:10]

** wagnerrp wonders if people with broken mail clients that do not fill in 'in-reply-to' can be set on fire over the internet **

[15:47:34]

Huijari:

josh_: ok, i use arch on my backend

[15:47:54]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: I'm compiling a list of people to set fire to, I'll happily add those

[15:49:11]

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[15:49:13]

jst_home:

Does anyone here know whether the channel icon download option in mythtv-setup is generally working for DirecTV users when using the XML tv grabbers to get lineup info?

[15:50:00]

wagnerrp:

heh... i was going to suggest this 'Chris Pinkham' character, but im wondering if i just never got the email he was replying to

[15:50:41]

wagnerrp:

i seem to be dropping a surprising quantity of emails

[15:50:46]

wagnerrp:

like a couple percent

[15:50:47]

sphery:

don't set him on fire...

[15:50:57]

wagnerrp:

(i know who he is)

[15:50:59]

sphery:

he's one of the few people making progress on the blockers for Myth

[15:51:02]

iamlindoro:

yes, he is not fire-worthy

[15:51:20]

iamlindoro:

Definitely a exo-pyro-individual

[15:51:40]

wagnerrp:

i was just scrolling down the list of orphaned replies, and was surprised to find him on here

[15:52:37]

wagnerrp:

the email has a 'in-reply-to' field, but i seem to not have the email it is in reply to

[15:54:04]

wagnerrp:

however this 'Vitani' person has sent two replies to 'Power efficient backend-only server' from a bad client

[15:55:44]

** sphery wonders if it's really worth it to jst_home to use the tv_grab_na_dtv screen-scraping grabber and have to update it each time DirecTV changes their website **

[15:55:58]

sphery:

(which they seem to have done on the 16th...)

[15:56:14]

wagnerrp:

yeah, chris's email is proper, i just dont seem to have the original email it references

[15:56:16]

sphery:

How much time would you be spending to save $20/yr

[15:56:32]

** Captain_Murdoch wonders what email is being talked about. **

[15:56:37]

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[15:56:52]

** Captain_Murdoch uses mutt still **

[15:56:55]

wagnerrp:

the 'schema update bug'

[15:57:16]

wagnerrp:

for some reason, i dont have the original, so i saw your email as an orphaned reply

[15:57:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

ah, that was Ken Bass on the -users list. I think I was the only person who replied.

[15:58:33]

** Captain_Murdoch sees janne's commit message and patch and realizes we do do a compile test in configure. **

[15:58:44]

sphery:

yeah--he replied /and/ patched trunk and -fixes before I even saw the original post from Ken

[15:59:26]

jst_home:

sphery: I'm not using tv_grab_na_dtv, I'm using tv_grab_na_dd

[15:59:50]

wagnerrp:

jst_home: the point still stands

[15:59:54]

sphery:

jst_home: why would you use tv_grab_na_dd instead of using the built-in Schedules Direct support?

[16:00:40]

jst_home:

sphery: I'd love to use the built in support for schedules direct, but I can't since my ISP (satellite internet) is so broken it doesn't work

[16:00:40]

sphery:

you'll get better/more data using the built-in stuff

[16:00:40]

sphery:

ahhh

[16:00:41]

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[16:00:41]

sphery:

I see...

[16:00:43]

jst_home:

yeah, sucks to be me

[16:00:56]

sphery:

The icon stuff doesn't use the xmltv or schedules direct stuff

[16:01:01]

meshe:

it's just http

[16:01:05]

sphery:

the part in mythtv-setup probably doesn't work too well

[16:01:07]

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[16:01:08]

meshe:

can you browse the web?

[16:01:20]

sphery:

jst_home: try using channel_icons.pl in the contrib directory

[16:01:34]

jst_home:

meshe: yes, I can browser the web, but the soap calls that are made simply don't propagate through properly for some reason

[16:01:36]

sphery:

meshe: he's probably getting timeouts due to latency/other issues

[16:02:02]

jst_home:

some day I may hack on that code to see if there's anything that can be done in the client to help

[16:02:05]

sphery:

or, perhaps a proxy thing... I don't remember any proxy workarounds mentioned for Schedules Direct usage, though...

[16:02:25]

jst_home:

but chances are it's the site that's not working with this broken setup

[16:02:48]

jst_home:

sphery: ah, cool, I'll look into channel_icons.pl

[16:03:15]

jst_home:

and yes, there are invisible proxies between me and the web that I can do little about

[16:03:57]

jst_home:

maybe I could redirect locally and tunnel through ssh and get around that, but the latency is still there

[16:04:09]

wagnerrp:

complain to hughesnet about websites not working

[16:04:21]

jst_home:

it's too painful

[16:04:28]

jst_home:

believe me

[16:05:02]

meshe:

latency shouldn't cause problems with http which is over tcp, it should just be slow

[16:05:16]

meshe:

unless SD has some rediculously low timout

[16:05:24]

jst_home:

right

[16:05:24]

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[16:05:54]

meshe:

if the client side has a timeout, iirc it's just calling wget to download the files, that can be changed

[16:07:19]

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[16:08:20]

janneg:

Captain_Murdoch: only if pkg-config doesn't work

[16:09:05]

Captain_Murdoch:

janneg, ah.. could explain [R]'s case then. he said it didn't do a compile test on his system.

[16:09:50]

joe2371:

Well, I have analog setup (I think, at least). But I've hit a stumbling block in adding digital cable chanels. The advice on gossamerthreads for combining channel scanning with schedules direct leads to a dead page in the wiki. Is there a new howto for hacking those two data sets together?

[16:10:15]

wagnerrp:

you do a manual channel scan

[16:10:31]

wagnerrp:

and then you go into the channel editor, and update your channels with the xmltv ids found on the schedules direct website

[16:10:53]

joe2371:

oic. so by hand?

[16:11:06]

sphery:

janneg: btw, thanks for the configure fix to say that qtwebkit is required.

[16:11:14]

josh_:

wagnerrp, so, if I have digital tuners, a STB, and an analog tuner...

[16:11:16]

sphery:

just wanted to verify that we /did/ want to require it

[16:11:32]

wagnerrp:

they should probably all be set to separate lineups

[16:11:37]

josh_:

wagnerrp, but I want them *all* to share the same SD source

[16:11:47]

wagnerrp:

should be done

[16:11:50]

joe2371:

wagnerrp: can I assume that the channel orderings are consistent?

[16:11:52]

wagnerrp:

shouldnt

[16:11:57]

sphery:

joe2371: you also need 2 different video sources

[16:12:00]

wagnerrp:

use a separate source for each

[16:12:07]

wagnerrp:

you can have up to four on one account

[16:12:16]

sphery:

joe2371: both /can/ use the same lineup, but you almost definitely /want/ different lineups on Schedules Direct

[16:12:25]

joe2371:

sphery: one for analog and another for digital, right? I have that.

[16:12:29]

sphery:

right

[16:12:43]

Outlier:

Is there a solution to the low volume of videos in Jaunty ?

[16:12:44]

sphery:

where one is both a Schedules Direct lineup and a MythTV video source

[16:12:45]

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[16:14:03]

sphery:

Outlier: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6569

[16:14:10]

Outlier:

Thanks

[16:14:17]

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[16:15:46]

janneg:

sphery: I think we require it since we build mythuiwebbrowser.cpp unconditional and the no webkit code was removed in it

[16:16:33]

iamlindoro:

okolsi: Please search for duplicates before opening bugs

[16:16:38]

janneg:

iirc gbee removed after we increased the min qt version to 4.4

[16:17:00]

iamlindoro:

There are only five MythVideo bugs so it's not too hard :)

[16:17:37]

iamlindoro:

(although the bug in question isn't assigned ot mythvideo since it's not a mythvideo bug)

[16:17:38]

sphery:

janneg: yeah, we definitely are requiring it since that commit I mentioned.

[16:18:06]

sphery:

though I'm starting to think you may have fixed that independently of my comment :)

[16:19:10]

sphery:

I just wanted other devs to have a chance to argue for re-instating the no-qtwebkit ifdefs

[16:20:22]

josh_:

mythplugins configure relies on the mythtv package being already compiled and installed, right?

[16:20:41]

iamlindoro:

s/package/libraries/, but yes

[16:20:53]

josh_:

so what if you don't want MythBrowser? you still need to compile mythtv with qt-webkit, even though it's not needed?

[16:21:04]

sphery:

mythfrontend uses qtwebkit stuff

[16:21:10]

josh_:

oooOoooo

[16:21:16]

sphery:

and we don't support

[16:21:23]

sphery:

compiling mythbackend without mythfrontend

[16:21:45]

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[16:21:46]

josh_:

sphery, it makes sense now, I wasn't suggesting compiling mythbackend seperately..

[16:22:02]

josh_:

I was just under the impression that only the mythweb plugin used qt-webit

[16:22:07]

josh_:

webkit, rather.

[16:22:21]

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[16:22:29]

sphery:

so the question was whether anyone wanted those parts of mythfrontend that use qtwebkit to just not work/show a "This would show ... if you had compiled with qtwebkit support" message if someone compiled without qtwebkit

[16:23:17]

okolsi:

iamlindoro: yeah... was checking with component "Plugin – MythVideo".. but #7375 is under Generall should have been more thorough..

[16:23:47]

GreyFoxx:

mythvideo deleteedeeedddd my v1d300000ssssss

[16:24:33]

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[16:25:07]

GreyFoxx:

Personally I LIKE not being prompted anymore, but I can see it sucking if it wipped all my data for everything.... though I am highly aware of my network and wouldn't run a scan for videos if the video containing boxes were offline :)

[16:25:26]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: come on developers, this is bug! ;)

[16:25:42]

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[16:25:46]

iamlindoro:

Lack of feature you want != bug

[16:25:52]

GreyFoxx:

Well I can see how a user would see it that way. They assume that because it use to prompt that it should be doing it now

[16:25:57]

wagnerrp:

isnt there some check where it wont delete videos in a SG from an offline backend?

[16:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: yes and that works fine

[16:26:19]

GreyFoxx:

but if you are not using SG groups it will happily delete them :)

[16:26:25]

GreyFoxx:

OR if your SG is pointing to a nfs/samba mounted directory

[16:26:57]

GreyFoxx:

if in the end the file isn't there when it checks it will be removed from the DB without prompting

[16:27:19]

wagnerrp:

'warning, you eff'd up, fix me'

[16:27:40]

GreyFoxx:

I Like this behaviour because I do not have to deal with a prompt everytime I move/renamed/delete something

[16:27:45]

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[16:27:49]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i agree

[16:28:24]

Outlier:

sphery – I read through the link you gave me. Is it your understanding that the low volume problem is an ffmpeg bug? If so, is there a workaround for Mythtv at this point?

[16:28:31]

GreyFoxx:

But I can see how an accident could cause it all to get removed and someones long time spent grabbing metadata be gone :)

[16:28:56]

GreyFoxx:

I imagine it could be an optional setting but overall I'd rather avoid that since right now we want to remove settings :)

[16:28:59]

wagnerrp:

oh, you mean you dont have a cronjob set up to make regular backups of your database?

[16:29:22]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, no more settings. They can live with it for now and we can have automatic, automated metadata grabbing for .23

[16:29:26]

GreyFoxx:

wagnerrp: heh if you say that to users they freak out :)

[16:29:31]

josh_:

wagnerrp, What's a backup?

[16:29:34]

iamlindoro:

Then if they mess up when they re-add it'll fix itself

[16:29:54]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: yeah

[16:30:38]

janneg:

sphery: since the recording details screen uses the html widget we should require it

[16:31:03]

sphery:

right... I think not requiring it is bad.

[16:31:57]

sphery:

Outlier: other than applying the patch on that ticket, there's really no fix for it

[16:32:12]

sphery:

and I can't even guarantee that the fix on that ticket works--I haven't used it

[16:32:14]

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[16:32:14]

GreyFoxx:

One thing I noticed is that if I hit W on a show and I move my cursor to another video before the grab is complete the screenshot/cover do not get updated on the screen. If I wait until it's done they do. exiting the folder and going back in or going back to the video and hitting W one more time popups up the image as expected

[16:32:25]

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[16:32:26]

sphery:

Outlier: actually, I guess there's one other fix--the volume button

[16:32:41]

iamlindoro:

That's because the buttonitem isn't passed through the whole grabbing process

[16:32:52]

iamlindoro:

at the end of a grab it just does GetItemCurrent() and updates that

[16:33:10]

iamlindoro:

one of many improvements that I'll have to make as part of mass metadata grab

[16:34:53]

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[16:35:11]

Outlier:

sphery – I've got all the volume controls I can find maxed – sound is still very low in ripped material; i.e. can't understand speech.

[16:35:24]

mag0o:

turn it up to 11

[16:35:29]

Outlier:

right

[16:35:45]

oobe:

Outlier, this is possibly a problem with alsa

[16:35:47]

mag0o:

sorry, couldn't resist

[16:35:54]

Outlier:

:-)

[16:36:35]

Outlier:

alsa...maybe pulseaudio. Actually not sure what I've got here (new Jaunty install).

[16:36:35]

oobe:

i had a soundcard that worked better after modifying snd-intel-hda in alsa configs

[16:36:35]

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[16:37:04]

oobe:

pulseaudio most likely wont effect max volume

[16:37:14]

sphery:

though pulseaudio will mess up mythtv stuff

[16:37:25]

oobe:

yea it does

[16:37:30]

Outlier:

oobe I'll give that a look. The problem I'm having seems to be limited to only Myth though. Other video is fine, as far as i can tell.

[16:37:36]

joe2371:

I've asked this before, but I've never found a convincing reply: is the ATSC channel separator choice a matter of personal preference only? Or is it a case of needing to pick the "right" one for my signal source by some means?

[16:37:36]

meshe:

Outlier: http://idyllictux.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/ub . . . udio-at-bay/

[16:38:01]

sphery:

meshe: heh, awesome title for that

[16:38:18]

meshe:

isn't it?

[16:38:44]

meshe:

i take no credit, it's just the first google link for jaunty remove pulseaudio

[16:39:05]

joe2371:

...I've been tempted always to pick 0 or something because I have buttons for that on my MCE remotes.

[16:39:10]

sphery:

[mythtv-users] Netbook as combined frontend/backend SD only with digtial source. Possible?

[16:39:13]

sphery:

wow...

[16:39:14]

sphery:

tall order

[16:39:22]

meshe:

lol

[16:39:42]

meshe:

yes, i'd say possible

[16:40:05]

meshe:

as long as the bitrates stay low

[16:40:08]

joe2371:

Yet if it is arbitrary, why not allow me to input the character of my choice? Hence my concern that it is not arbitrary at all.

[16:41:40]

sphery:

joe2371: arbitrary, though--TTBOMK--in trunk/0.22-fixes, you can't pick it anymore (no GUI control), so you get the default

[16:42:02]

joe2371:

sphery: so I might as well pick '_' then?

[16:42:11]

joe2371:

since I'll be forced to use it eventually?

[16:42:42]

joe2371:

well, arbitrary is the operative word, in any case.

[16:42:44]

joe2371:

thanks

[16:44:38]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: So when are you going to find someone with "the brains" to help you with the code? ;) (What a dick!)

[16:46:01]

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[16:46:05]

wagnerrp:

looks like WOL didnt work... down to the basement...

[16:46:15]

Outlier:

okay – looks like my problem with low volume is solved. Turns out that the recording volume on my motherboard's built-in sound was set really low. I adjusted that up and re-ripped, and it's all good now.

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[16:54:45]

joe2371:

Uh, seems in adding digital cable channels, I had two locations in the menu from which to initiate the scan. I chose the one in input settings, but I see another now in channel settings. Did I need not to use the former?

[16:54:51]

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[16:55:08]

josh_:

I do mine when setting up my input source

[16:55:23]

joe2371:

ok, thanks

[16:55:27]

iamlindoro:

They are both routes to the same channel scanner, provided for convenience

[16:55:28]

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[16:56:08]

josh_:

joe2371, but when doing ananlog channels, or a digital box connected to an analog tuner, just fetch the channels

[16:56:16]

josh_:

dont do an actual channel scan unless using a digital tuner

[16:56:47]

joe2371:

josh_: right. this I learned the hard way.

[16:56:52]

sphery:

joe2371: well, you won't be forced to use it--you just won't be able to pick on any future rescans. Technically, Myth uses whatever separator is used most often in the channels in the video source to which it's adding channels. If the video source has no channels, you get the default.

[16:57:21]

sphery:

So if you don't delete your existing channels, Myth will continue to use whatever you've chosen (when you were given a choice)

[16:57:57]

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[17:00:24]

joe2371:

Is there some source of information to help me translate a channel like "(Unnamed : 3029) (102#7)" into an an integer numbered channel as listed by SD?

[17:01:04]

iamlindoro:

paper, a pencil, and the live TV channel editor :)

[17:01:11]

iamlindoro:

(no joke, sadly)

[17:02:19]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: I too was surprised by that

[17:02:33]

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[17:02:57]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions for improvements ... it's just the way it is

[17:02:58]

iamlindoro:

Not much Myth can do about it, regrettably, there's just nothing outside of crowdsourcing it to solve it

[17:03:07]

CyberKnet:

yes, that is exactly what I was trying to express

[17:03:10]

CyberKnet:

it's not a Myth problem.

[17:03:15]

CyberKnet:

It's just unfortunate.

[17:03:22]

joe2371:

live TV channel editor? I'm not aware of more than one channel editor. Or do you mean that I just use liveTV to tune each in turn, note what it seems to be, then return to the channel editor to add the lables according to my best guesses?

[17:03:23]

iamlindoro:

yeah

[17:03:30]

CyberKnet:

I suppose crowd-sourcing wouldn't be bad, but who is going to host the infrastructure?

[17:03:40]

wagnerrp:

and... still no analog

[17:03:53]

iamlindoro:

joe2371: I mean you can access the channel editor for the "active" channel straight from live TV

[17:04:12]

CyberKnet:

iamlindoro: Aaah, I didn't know that.

[17:04:16]

iamlindoro:

joe2371: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frontend_Channel_Editor

[17:04:27]

CyberKnet:

so very much I don't know.

[17:04:46]

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[17:04:51]

wagnerrp:

CyberKnet: mythtv services? mythtv.org already hosts crowdsourced channel icons

[17:04:53]

joe2371:

iamlindoro: oic. I'll have a look.

[17:04:55]

iamlindoro:

(ignore the "Probe" thing mentioned there, it just confuses people and doesn't do what people think it does)

[17:05:19]

CyberKnet:

wagnerrp: Again... so much I don't know.

[17:05:25]

wagnerrp:

the only problem is that digital cable channels tend to be transient

[17:05:34]

wagnerrp:

the cable-cos change them on a whim

[17:06:07]

joe2371:

Would it be possible in principle to use a combination of SD guide data and EIT data to find the low-hanging fruit?

[17:06:21]

wagnerrp:

what EIT?

[17:06:21]

CyberKnet:

yep.

[17:06:43]

CyberKnet:

still, I wouldn't mind something that uploaded to mythtv.org the frequency, SD lineup id, and channum whenever I edited a channel.

[17:06:46]

wagnerrp:

if the cableco isnt going to give you a simple channel name for mythtv to match off of, theyre certainly not going to give you EIT data

[17:07:27]

CyberKnet:

lineup id / channel id / I don't know what I'm talking about

[17:07:27]

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[17:07:37]

CyberKnet:

(this much is probably self-evident by now)

[17:07:39]

wagnerrp:

again, remember this is digital cable only

[17:07:50]

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[17:08:07]

** CyberKnet takes a time out to reboot and stop the urge to talk **

[17:08:08]

wagnerrp:

broadcasters almost always send a named stream, that mythtv can match against the SD data

[17:09:32]

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[17:09:35]

sphery:

but if you get a # separator, it means Myth couldn't find any name

[17:09:45]

sphery:

and that's your notification that you need to manually edit channel info

[17:10:52]

joe2371:

Well, ignoring EIT then, might it be possible in principle to lokk for such things as audio-only, resolution, encryption status, macrovision, and so forth, and to use this data to at least determine what the identity of some channel _isn't_?

[17:11:09]

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[17:11:47]

sphery:

if you can actually come up with unique identifiers and a way of making that work, sure

[17:11:56]

sphery:

but, really, there's not much difference between channels

[17:12:00]

sphery:

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