Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, October 20th, 2009, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:04]

wagnerrp:

not segfaulting, panicing

[00:00:31]

wagnerrp:

so with five minutes left before recordings, i panicked, wiped the boot image cloned a new one

[00:00:48]

wagnerrp:

only to find i had the pxelinux config set up wrong, and was booting off the wrong image

[00:01:25]

wagnerrp:

but hey, at least this meaning my clone/auto-setup mechanism works

[00:03:25]

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[00:05:26]

AndrewNC_:

there is a bright side to most disasters

[00:06:31]

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[00:07:06]

Batshua:

Hey guys, possibly hugely dumb question, but I've never encountered this before.

[00:07:18]

Batshua:

The new House ep is being pre-empted by baseball. If the ep DOES start from the beginning, but later than originally planned, is there some way to tell my box to restart or extend recording time?

[00:07:45]

wagnerrp:

i know you can do it from mythweb, i assume the frontend can as well

[00:08:40]

Batshua:

I figured there must be some capability, but it's like a Great Unknown to me.

[00:08:57]

wagnerrp:

here that people? anyone in the DC area may want to extend your recording of House

[00:09:02]

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[00:10:47]

wagnerrp:

scratch that.... anyone in the US may want to extend their recording of House

[00:11:23]

AndrewNC_:

I would imagine it only affects eastern(maybe central) viewers

[00:11:33]

iamlindoro:

Or, even better... don't watch House.

[00:11:47]

AndrewNC_:

House should preempt baseball

[00:12:42]

wagnerrp:

well its the american league championship

[00:12:47]

Batshua:

Central.

[00:12:57]

AndrewNC_:

I think a lot of fox affiliates repeat the primetime lineup after the news

[00:13:06]

Batshua:

My dad points out it's Yankees, but it pisses me off that they have to conflict like this.

[00:13:07]

wagnerrp:

New York at LA

[00:13:11]

wagnerrp:

so everyone is playing it

[00:13:21]

wagnerrp:

you think they can make up that time in two hours?

[00:13:30]

wagnerrp:

or is it three?

[00:13:51]

wagnerrp:

oh... its already an entire hour over

[00:13:59]

wagnerrp:

yeah, theres no way theyre going to make that up in the gap

[00:14:40]

wagnerrp:

over an hour over, and theyre only in the tenth?

[00:14:44]

wagnerrp:

thats a painfully slow game

[00:15:13]

AndrewNC_:

weird they planned a new episode instead of a repeat

[00:16:39]

wagnerrp:

closest rain i several hundred miles north, and its LA... i cant imagine the game was delayed

[00:17:09]

Batshua:

Shite. The frontend has gone unresponsive on me.

[00:17:21]

Batshua:

Anyone know some way to kick it back into gear?

[00:17:34]

kormoc:

killall -9 mythfrontend ?

[00:17:47]

wagnerrp:

restart it, wait for it to do whatever its working on, or use mythweb to do you schedule changes

[00:18:08]

Batshua:

How can I kill the mythfrontend ... if it's stuck... when I don't have access to terminal?

[00:18:10]

Batshua:

hrm.

[00:18:15]

Batshua:

maybe I can ssh in from here.

[00:18:15]

wagnerrp:

ssh

[00:18:23]

Batshua:

I don't actually know how to access mythweb

[00:18:27]

Batshua:

I don't know if I have ssh enabled

[00:18:30]

Batshua:

but i'm about to find out

[00:18:39]

wagnerrp:

you almost certainly have ssh enabled

[00:18:46]

wagnerrp:

any sensible distro does that by default

[00:19:04]

wagnerrp:

and mythweb needs to be installed, along with apache, php, and a handful of other dependencies

[00:19:13]

wagnerrp:

its not part of base mythtv

[00:19:16]

Batshua:

I believe I installed mythweb

[00:19:20]

Batshua:

I just ... haven't ever used it.

[00:25:23]

Batshua:

*beats head against wall*

[00:25:34]

Batshua:

I just forgot the URL for the router, and it looks like my useful bookmark is gone.

[00:25:41]

Batshua:

I am officially made of fail.

[00:26:28]

wagnerrp:

usually it would be 'http://<your_backend_ip>/mythweb/

[00:26:29]

iamlindoro:

erm.... wouldn't your router URL just be whatever gateway IP it gives out to any DHCP client?

[00:27:32]

Batshua:

I am not entirely sure, actually, because I generally don't much around in the router enough to know. Granted, I *should* know, but I am a Bear of Very Little Brain at present.

[00:28:15]

wagnerrp:

im entirely sure your router would be your gateway

[00:28:17]

iamlindoro:

so go to any system getting its IP via DHCP, heck the IP info, and use the gateway IP as your URL

[00:28:18]

iamlindoro:

er check

[00:28:24]

wagnerrp:

and fairly certain your router is also your dhcp server

[00:30:02]

Batshua:

Huh.

[00:30:20]

Batshua:

It says it's 192.168.1.1, but it's refusing my connection. Maybe ... we reset the router again and I got locked out. Time to stomp upstairs.

[00:32:00]

wagnerrp:

your router is irrelevant

[00:32:03]

Batshua:

I'm an idiot. I forgot it's a secure connection.

[00:32:09]

wagnerrp:

mythweb would probably be running on your backend

[00:32:20]

wagnerrp:

but its certainly not going to be running on your router

[00:32:57]

Batshua:

no no

[00:33:04]

Batshua:

but if I want to get into the PVR I need to know the IP

[00:33:11]

Batshua:

and the only way I can do that is get the device list

[00:33:15]

wagnerrp:

which considering its dhcp

[00:33:17]

Batshua:

... which hides in ye router

[00:33:26]

wagnerrp:

is probably going to be a number not far from 100

[00:33:40]

wagnerrp:

most consumer routers start numbering at 192.168.1.100

[00:33:46]

wagnerrp:

so just start trying them all from there

[00:33:49]

Dagmar:

You know you can assign them static IPs right

[00:34:04]

Batshua:

I could, if I was lord and master of the router, which I am not.

[00:34:18]

wagnerrp:

you can assign a linux computer a static IP

[00:34:21]

mchou:

lol

[00:34:22]

iamlindoro:

You don't need access to the router to assign a static IP

[00:34:23]

wagnerrp:

it will never ask the router for one

[00:34:44]

Batshua:

okay so killall -9 mythfrontend did nothing

[00:34:49]

Batshua:

mythfrontend: no process killed

[00:34:52]

wagnerrp:

ubuntu?

[00:34:57]

Batshua:

mythbuntu

[00:34:59]

Batshua:

why?

[00:35:06]

wagnerrp:

mythfrontend.real

[00:35:08]

Batshua:

Is that Not How It Works?

[00:35:09]

Batshua:

ah!

[00:35:10]

Batshua:

thanks.

[00:37:44]

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[00:37:55]

Batshua:

HOORAY!

[00:38:07]

websae:

Anyone know of a good capture card to connect my Directv HD set top box to?

[00:38:11]

Batshua:

I have told it to end the recording 90 minutes late. Either that's plenty enough time, or I'll have something to delete later.

[00:38:22]

wagnerrp:

a PVR-150/500, or HDPVR

[00:38:22]

Batshua:

Many thanks, you guys!

[00:38:38]

websae:

wagnerrp: will that record HD from the set top box?

[00:38:39]

wagnerrp:

the former for standard def, the latter for high def

[00:38:50]

websae:

You answered it square on.

[00:38:59]

websae:

PVR 500 is HD?

[00:39:06]

sphery:

what's this overrun everyone's talking about

[00:39:20]

wagnerrp:

the 150 and 500 are single and dual standard definition capture cards

[00:39:21]

sphery:

only fox?

[00:39:29]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR is a HD capture box

[00:39:38]

websae:

run well with myth?

[00:39:49]

wagnerrp:

sphery: its the AL championship game

[00:40:02]

wagnerrp:

running an hour and a half, and several innings over

[00:40:07]

wagnerrp:

websae: 0.22 only

[00:40:36]

sphery:

ah, so just extend my Lie To Me for tonight in case?

[00:40:45]

wagnerrp:

by several hours

[00:41:01]

wagnerrp:

game was supposed to end at 7pm

[00:41:16]

websae:

wagnerrp: do you use it? seems expensive.

[00:41:20]

wagnerrp:

looks like the angels just won a couple minutes ago

[00:41:23]

wagnerrp:

websae: no

[00:41:37]

iamlindoro:

websae, It's expensive because it's the only game in town

[00:41:40]

sphery:

websae: only High-def solution

[00:41:51]

iamlindoro:

websae, if you want to record HD frmo your satellite box, it's your one and only option

[00:42:12]

sphery:

please sent letters of complaint to Hollywood

[00:42:56]

websae:

Does anyone have a setup with using Directv set top boxes as video source?

[00:43:15]

sphery:

I used to use standard def dish network

[00:43:18]

iamlindoro:

numerous people do, there's no voodoo particular to thos boxes

[00:43:23]

Batshua:

Provided I actually had MythWeb running and it was set up right, how would I then access it?

[00:43:24]

iamlindoro:

those

[00:43:42]

wagnerrp:

Batshua: see link i have you way up there

[00:43:44]

Batshua:

Do I just type the IP address of the box into the browser? the wiki entry doesn't seem to address this.

[00:43:48]

wagnerrp:

s/have/gave/

[00:44:07]

Batshua:

AH

[00:44:10]

Batshua:

I didn't see that, sorry

[00:45:47]

Batshua:

WIN! It runs!

[00:45:55]

websae:

Anyone have recommendations on good setup box setup for front end of myth?

[00:45:56]

Batshua:

wagnerrp, you are officially my hero.

[00:46:16]

wagnerrp:

sphery: looks like house started at 8:45

[00:46:23]

wagnerrp:

so adjust Lie To Me accordingly

[00:46:33]

sphery:

wagnerrp: thx

[00:48:19]

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[00:48:51]

sphery:

still haven't watched Lie To Me season 1, but that's when those missed episodes (which won't repeat) become important

[00:49:24]

wagnerrp:

yeah, because by the time you start to watch them, theyre no longer available online for streaming

[00:50:16]

websae:

i'm trying to find a good client setup with hd output card, recommendations for hd output to tv?

[00:50:26]

wagnerrp:

any nvidia card

[00:51:06]

Batshua:

Since I'm still here

[00:51:14]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, some networks are really bad and only put them up for 2 weeks following airing

[00:51:17]

Batshua:

is there an easy way to force-record duplicates?

[00:51:25]

websae:

need a lot of system resources for hd output on client front end?

[00:51:40]

sphery:

HD output is nothing

[00:51:43]

wagnerrp:

Batshua: yes, both in mythweb, and in manage recordings on the frontend

[00:52:02]

Batshua:

The only thing I see is to specifically override each one manually.

[00:52:02]

sphery:

high-definition/high-bitrate/high-resolution video /decoding/ requires a lot of CPU resources

[00:52:03]

wagnerrp:

you need a fair bit of resources to decode, but just to output is simple

[00:52:15]

wagnerrp:

broadcast TV is very simple

[00:52:31]

websae:

server doesn't do the decoding?

[00:52:32]

sphery:

or, if you're willing to live with the restrictions of VDPAU, rquires a relatively new nvidia GPU

[00:52:37]

wagnerrp:

any Ath64/Core2 will manage it

[00:52:42]

websae:

front end does?

[00:52:42]

sphery:

nope, frontend does all decoding

[00:52:44]

wagnerrp:

the HDPVR is a bit more demanding

[00:52:53]

sphery:

can't send uncompressed video across the network

[00:52:57]

wagnerrp:

takes a rather beefy single core

[00:52:58]

sphery:

too big

[00:53:06]

wagnerrp:

or you can just do that decoding on an nvidia card

[00:53:54]

websae:

i was thinking about get a few HDPVR's, and connecting to a centralized server with a few Directv boxes (HD), and then stream to front end clients

[00:54:13]

iamlindoro:

That's more or less the description of Myth alright ;)

[00:54:14]

sphery:

that works great

[00:54:54]

sphery:

basically, backends require little CPU (if using a useful capture mechanism, such as a digital tuner or an HD-PVR or a PVR-x50)

[00:54:59]

sphery:

and frontends require grunt

[00:55:00]

wagnerrp:

sphery: sure you can

[00:55:10]

wagnerrp:

gigabit isnt even half bad even doing 720p

[00:55:13]

sphery:

or black-box magic, like VDPAU

[00:55:22]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, uncompressed

[00:55:28]

wagnerrp:

uncompressed

[00:55:37]

websae:

so i need more system resources on the fronte end...?

[00:55:57]

websae:

I would think the backend would be a server set up to do the recording/encoding

[00:56:19]

wagnerrp:

gigabit will do 720p, with about 40% headroom left to spare

[00:56:55]

sphery:

wagnerrp: at 1280x720, you're talking 921,600 pixels per frame and at 30fps that's 27.6M pixels per second

[00:57:04]

iamlindoro:

considering 720p would be 840 Mbit, that's not 40% to spare

[00:57:08]

sphery:

so if you encode them in 8-bit, perhaps

[00:57:10]

iamlindoro:

8 bit @ 1280 x 720 @ 59.94field = 105 MB per/sec, or 370 GB per/hr.

[00:57:24]

iamlindoro:

but do ten bit and you can't even do that

[00:57:40]

iamlindoro:

and that's *if* you manage the (tough to attain) maximum speed of gigabit

[00:58:02]

websae:

well this sounds like my setup may not end up working

[00:58:07]

wagnerrp:

im getting 79MB/s

[00:58:17]

sphery:

websae: it will work fine with compressed video

[00:58:18]

wagnerrp:

12-bit, YUV

[00:58:24]

iamlindoro:

websae, this is a theoretical discussion, none of what you are talking about would be uncompressed

[00:58:49]

sphery:

wagnerrp: using something like VNC, perhaps?

[00:59:05]

sphery:

which would reduce the frame rate significantly and likely the colorspace, too

[00:59:24]

wagnerrp:

the uncompressed video is already at a reduced colorspace

[00:59:26]

wagnerrp:

12-bit

[00:59:37]

websae:

Okay, so hypothetically speaking I could have 3 hd pvr with 3 hd directv set top boxes all connected to a server, and then have frontend clients that could control the recordings and or watch live HD tv?

[00:59:45]

iamlindoro:

websae, yes

[00:59:58]

sphery:

websae: the recording is only writing a few megabytes per second to disk

[01:00:11]

iamlindoro:

compressed video is trivial to transmit over a network

[01:00:28]

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[01:01:34]

sphery:

wagnerrp: so, at 12-bit color, 720p30 is 41,472,000 bytes per second and 720p60 is 82,944,000

[01:02:40]

sphery:

can you really do 79.1 MiB/s on your gigabit network?

[01:03:01]

sphery:

I get more like 30 MiB/s--but I don't use jumbo frames

[01:03:09]

wagnerrp:

sure, iperf lists ~950+ mbps on my network between machines

[01:03:19]

wagnerrp:

and thats even without jumbo frames

[01:03:29]

wagnerrp:

real world performance... is something far less

[01:03:41]

wagnerrp:

but ive done 60MB/s between my backend and my desktop over samba

[01:05:16]

sphery:

anyway, sending uncompressed video across a network is a waste of bandwidth

[01:05:32]

wagnerrp:

well ill go with that

[01:05:56]

wagnerrp:

although i could see an IP-based KVM using basic huffman

[01:06:02]

wagnerrp:

that only gets about 3:1

[01:06:11]

kormoc:

http://compression.ru/video/codec_comparison/ . . . decs_en.html

[01:06:32]

kormoc:

looks like 3:1 is a fairly doable for lossless compression

[01:06:32]

Dagmar:

Probably good you should admit to the possibility of their existance

[01:06:39]

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[01:06:57]

Dagmar:

...seeing as how we just lifecycled a Raritan that was handling remote, IP-based KVM, with full screen full-speed video

[01:13:13]

Batshua:

So thought.

[01:13:23]

Batshua:

I am trying to extend recording time another 10 freaking minutes

[01:13:31]

Batshua:

and no matter how many minutes I tack on, it won't do it.

[01:13:37]

Batshua:

is the GUI lying to me?

[01:14:33]

wagnerrp:

actually, you want to tack on about 45

[01:14:51]

wagnerrp:

not that it really matters anymore, its a bit late

[01:15:15]

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[01:15:23]

Batshua:

Why is it late?

[01:15:33]

wagnerrp:

your recording stopped 15 minutes ago

[01:15:55]

wagnerrp:

at the scheduled time

[01:16:08]

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[01:16:11]

sphery:

unless he's pacific/mountain

[01:16:21]

wagnerrp:

nah, hes outside of DC

[01:16:25]

Batshua:

I extended it before it stopped recording

[01:16:31]

wagnerrp:

virginia

[01:16:38]

sphery:

ahhh

[01:16:42]

Batshua:

it's still recording, but it's 10 minutes shy of where it should stop.

[01:16:48]

sphery:

which may explain why it's not extending it

[01:16:48]

iamlindoro:

she, most likely

[01:16:59]

Batshua:

I need to re-extend it, it says it's finishing at 9 30, but it needs to stop at 9 40.

[01:17:05]

Batshua:

it's 8 16, so I should have time.

[01:17:15]

sphery:

don't know if the re-extend works

[01:17:18]

Batshua:

actually, it may be enough.

[01:17:19]

Batshua:

Hrm.

[01:17:30]

sphery:

how are you extending it, though

[01:17:33]

Dagmar:

Does your video card _glow_ without LEDs?

[01:17:35]

Batshua:

I did it in frontend

[01:17:36]

Dagmar:

wrong chan

[01:17:42]

Batshua:

I wanted to try web

[01:17:45]

Batshua:

we might actually be okay

[01:18:03]

Batshua:

it might need to stop at 8 40 and I might be delusional

[01:18:06]

Batshua:

in which case, no worries.

[01:18:19]

wagnerrp:

youre in central time? i guess that whole address block is registered to TimeWarner's central office outside of DC

[01:19:43]

sphery:

so the right way to extend it is to go into Upcoming Recordings, then select the episode, then Change Ending Time

[01:19:47]

sphery:

that's what you're doing, right?

[01:20:43]

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wagnerrp:

interesting that ffmpeg's implementation of huffman is that much more efficient than the original

[01:24:21]

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[01:31:09]

tjcarter:

Does anyone here know anything about getting random boxes to work via firewire?

[01:31:41]

tjcarter:

I've got one I'm pretty sure isn't supported, and I'm interested in patching it to work.

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Batshua:

Yeah, I'm in San Antonio.

[01:33:21]

Batshua:

sa.tx.rr

[01:33:49]

Batshua:

TW sucks balls, but they're pretty much the only game in San Antonio for decent internet OR TV

[01:33:54]

Batshua:

everything else is ... worse.

[01:33:58]

wagnerrp:

yeah, for some reason that name wasnt resolving earlier

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elmojo:

wagnerrp: I just investigated FFWD3X on my system and my patch won't help you any

[02:02:57]

elmojo:

sphery: just tested FFWD3X on my system using VDPAU for 1080i and it definitely can not keep up

[02:03:36]

sphery:

interesting

[02:03:41]

elmojo:

apparently it will just play as fast it can if it can't keep up

[02:03:44]

sphery:

do you have HD-PVR material?

[02:04:06]

elmojo:

no QAM MPEG-2 1080i

[02:04:07]

sphery:

hmmm

[02:04:11]

sphery:

just curious

[02:04:27]

elmojo:

kills audio so no AV sync code is involved

[02:04:30]

sphery:

I was wondering if you saw any backwards-effects from that one commit you pointed out

[02:04:46]

sphery:

I'm hoping David sees the e-mail soon

[02:04:47]

elmojo:

heh – I have updated to using it yet

[02:05:13]

elmojo:

but hopefully he meant to make that change so the clock doesn't need to be reset again

[02:05:29]

elmojo:

s/have/haven't/

[02:05:39]

sphery:

ah, I thought it only affected HD-PVR

[02:05:49]

sphery:

seems it's all seeks

[02:06:04]

elmojo:

yes it is generic

[02:06:50]

sphery:

so I could update and then test it

[02:06:57]

sphery:

though I never use ffwd/rew

[02:08:10]

elmojo:

I only use ffwd/rew sparingly

[02:08:15]

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[02:19:26]

jheizer:

since I have seen a few emails about clock drift on the mailing list, anyone have a solution that seems to work best

[02:19:44]

jheizer:

I see a whole lot of kernel options people try

[02:20:02]

hednod:

jheizer: clock drift? what kind of setup?'

[02:20:07]

jheizer:

worked perfect till upgraded my backend to mythbunut 9.04 and .22rc1

[02:20:14]

jheizer:

Athlon XP box

[02:20:28]

jheizer:

been great under 8.10 for 1–2 years

[02:20:40]

hednod:

might be the new acpi timer

[02:20:41]

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[02:20:43]

jheizer:

cleared the drift file this morning

[02:20:49]

Dagmar:

Setting up ntpd. *ahem*

[02:20:53]

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[02:20:57]

Dagmar:

...or buy a replacement motherboard.

[02:21:07]

jheizer:

and did a ntp update -bsv

[02:21:15]

jheizer:

ntp is running

[02:21:22]

hednod:

waht is ntp syncing to?

[02:21:30]

Dagmar:

Probbaly nothing much

[02:21:32]

jheizer:

*ntpupdate -bsv

[02:21:35]

hednod:

can you pastebin the output of ntpq -p

[02:21:37]

jheizer:

my router box

[02:21:52]

hednod:

and your router box has perfect time?

[02:21:54]

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[02:22:16]

jheizer:

runs its own ntpd

[02:22:38]

jheizer:

was trying that today, before was just using public servers

[02:23:04]

Dagmar:

Well, this is all secondary to the fact that ntpdate won't do a f**kign thing about the problem.

[02:23:13]

hednod:

Dagmar: he said hes running ntpd

[02:23:23]

jheizer:

hednod: http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/1631411

[02:23:32]

Dagmar:

Actually, *I* said to set up ntpd.

[02:23:39]

Dagmar:

He said he ran ntpupdate.

[02:23:43]

jheizer:

switched back to public since it didn;t matter

[02:23:45]

Dagmar:

All that does is set the clock, once

[02:23:56]

hednod:

<jheizer> ntp is running -09:21PM-

[02:24:12]

Dagmar:

Good for you being able to cut and paste

[02:24:16]

hednod:

jheizer: thats quite the offset, almost 9 seconds already

[02:24:20]

jheizer:

was doing the ntpupdate with the -bvs since I read that on the mail list

[02:24:35]

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[02:25:23]

wagnerrp:

elmojo: so the VDPAU decoder was only ever designed for playback speeds?

[02:25:55]

jheizer:

and that 9s is from me resetting the time about 45minute ago

[02:25:57]

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[02:26:21]

Dagmar:

So, let's try this again.

[02:26:24]

Dagmar:

Set up ntpd.

[02:26:28]

Dagmar:

Clock problem solved.

[02:26:55]

jheizer:

4987 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/ntpd -p /var/run/ntpd.pid -u 105:110 -g

[02:27:24]

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[02:27:34]

elmojo:

wagnerrp: the faster the GPU the more frames per second it can process

[02:27:53]

wagnerrp:

elmojo: only if youre running a deinterlacer

[02:28:03]

hednod:

jheizer: he said hes running it, i pasted it again for your bennefit, yet you still don't believe.

[02:28:04]

wagnerrp:

the video decoder is a stationary target

[02:28:06]

wagnerrp:

all chips have the same one

[02:28:14]

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[02:28:17]

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[02:28:37]

wagnerrp:

of course it is an 8200, and this was 1080i material

[02:28:45]

wagnerrp:

that could just be the fastest it can run temporal 1x

[02:29:03]

elmojo:

wagnerrp: possibly

[02:29:06]

hednod:

jheizer: ls /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0

[02:29:16]

Dagmar:

jheizer: Something's not right if you actually saw 9s error while you have ntpd running.

[02:29:55]

elmojo:

wagnerrp: and when I say "process" I'm referring to decoding, deinterlacing, scaling, colorspace conversion, etc

[02:30:25]

elmojo:

so yes the more options you have enabled the lower number of frames per second it can "process"

[02:30:32]

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[02:30:35]

hednod:

jheizer: if there are two files in tehre, try cat /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/*

[02:30:39]

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[02:30:44]

hednod:

jheizer: should tell you what clocksources are available, and waht you are using

[02:30:56]

jheizer:

avail: tsc acpi_pm jiffies, current: tsc

[02:31:27]

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[02:31:57]

Dagmar:

jheizer: If you never set up /etc/ntp.conf, this might help http://www.pastebin.ca/1631428

[02:32:13]

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[02:32:14]

hednod:

jheizer: try adding "clocksource=acpi_pm" to your kernel boot line and booting. tsc clock source might be screwed up on newer kernels — has problems with losing ticks too agressively

[02:32:30]

hednod:

or something like that, i remember reading about it

[02:32:47]

hednod:

make sure to check the current clock source after boot

[02:32:48]

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[02:33:09]

Dagmar:

ntpd's defaults go through a lot of stuff to smooth out erratic clocks, but either it's broke, or your hardware clock is pretty cooked

[02:33:23]

Dagmar:

9s is insane levels of inaccurate by ntpd's standard

[02:33:52]

jheizer:

k, will try both of those

[02:34:03]

jheizer:

setting the confg better and switching clocks

[02:34:11]

hednod:

ntpd is probably fine

[02:34:17]

hednod:

but you are drifting too fast for ntpd to keep up

[02:34:28]

jheizer:

crazy that it is getting 20+mins/day off now and perfect before

[02:34:49]

Dagmar:

20 minutes a day is crazy

[02:34:53]

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[02:34:57]

jheizer:

k, saw a lot of kernel options so figured I would ask the experts

[02:35:02]

Dagmar:

Are you sure the drift file is writeable?

[02:35:16]

hednod:

jheizer: there were changes to tick loss compensation in newer kernels and i've heard abotu it screwing up time on some hardware

[02:35:17]

jheizer:

yeah, was confused sunday when the simpsons was over before it started basically

[02:35:41]

jheizer:

drift was getting updated before

[02:35:48]

Dagmar:

It's generally going to keep track of how far off the mark the clock was and prod the kernel as often as necessary to keep in sync

[02:35:58]

Dagmar:

Something's gone very off the rails if it could get 20m off

[02:36:48]

Dagmar:

You can probably snuff the mulitcastclient directive from that example

[02:36:55]

Dagmar:

I was in a hurry sanitizing mine

[02:37:10]

Dagmar:

I actually do have a service firewall doing NTP for evertthing else in the house

[02:37:40]

jheizer:

I need to move all mine to, just haven't

[02:37:55]

Dagmar:

Get your dhcpd to drop hints about it

[02:38:07]

jheizer:

running a smoothwall

[02:38:30]

Dagmar:

Well, let's hope that hasn't impacted your ability to fathom the dhcpd docs

[02:38:33]

elmojo:

sphery: I just tested the most recent -fixes and rew and ffwd seemed reversed

[02:38:38]

wagnerrp:

the machines we have at work will get 20 minutes off over the course of a couple days

[02:38:39]

elmojo:

did you try it yet?

[02:38:48]

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[02:38:50]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Man you guys need an ntpd locally then

[02:39:01]

elmojo:

other than that it appears to work fine

[02:39:09]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i keep saying we just need to buy a cheap little GPS unit

[02:39:47]

Dagmar:

If you heve an internet connection and one non-suck machine, you can certainly get to within a half-second accuracy from just that one machine polling pool servers

[02:40:01]

wagnerrp:

that first part is a problem

[02:40:08]

Dagmar:

No internet?

[02:40:15]

wagnerrp:

intentionally

[02:40:23]

wagnerrp:

no need for firewall certification

[02:40:25]

Dagmar:

What the hell do you do for a living?

[02:40:28]

Dagmar:

Knit quilts?

[02:40:37]

wagnerrp:

CFD

[02:40:43]

Dagmar:

Okay

[02:40:50]

sphery:

elmojo: cool... I didn't try it

[02:41:02]

sphery:

found a little 0-byte-free root filesystem on my frontend

[02:41:03]

wagnerrp:

easier to have no internet, rather than have to certify propriety and export controlled codes to MIL standards

[02:41:12]

sphery:

cleaning up

[02:41:15]

jheizer:

fun times

[02:41:18]

wagnerrp:

certify the firewall to

[02:41:35]

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[02:41:51]

Dagmar:

You could always try hassling a vendor for pre-approced products

[02:41:57]

Dagmar:

It's worth a shot

[02:42:06]

wagnerrp:

well then we would have to purchase said system

[02:42:30]

wagnerrp:

come on, weve got some 200K of hardware, running off a time warner cable line daisy chained through multiple consumer routers

[02:42:44]

Dagmar:

...and you can't handle a simple NTP server

[02:42:47]

wagnerrp:

theres a whole lot of this that was not well thought out

[02:43:00]

Dagmar:

Dude, $140 or so will get you a 1U that "just does it"

[02:43:10]

Dagmar:

...using time broadcasts, not internet stuff

[02:43:13]

wagnerrp:

yeah, well... i said that two years ago

[02:43:16]

Dagmar:

Smack someone

[02:43:53]

Dagmar:

I mean what are you guys going to do if you have to ever certify that some event happened at a given time

[02:44:03]

hednod:

give or take 20 minutes

[02:44:08]

Dagmar:

Tell people "well, it happened within about 20 minutes of 10:34, give or take"

[02:44:14]

wagnerrp:

we check the logs, check the current time, and work back

[02:44:22]

Dagmar:

Except your clocks are out of whack

[02:44:26]

wagnerrp:

its all batch processing

[02:44:36]

elmojo:

sphery: maybe worth mentioning it to the other devs since they want to get the RC finished soon

[02:44:39]

wagnerrp:

so aside from 'we had a power failure and everything shut down at...'

[02:44:43]

wagnerrp:

time isnt very important

[02:45:18]

Dagmar:

clearly you guys aren't paid hourly

[02:45:20]

Dagmar:

heh

[02:45:42]

wagnerrp:

yep, thats what graduate students and coops are for

[02:46:14]

jheizer:

thanks for the help guys clocksource switched and conf edited, so we shall see

[02:46:43]

hednod:

jheizer: how big is your offset now?

[02:46:57]

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[02:47:03]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why these machines get so out of skew so quickly

[02:47:16]

jheizer:

0.054 to my server since I updated it a bit ago

[02:47:16]

wagnerrp:

i booted up an old dual P3 that hadnt been run in over a year

[02:47:19]

elmojo:

wagnerrp: did you write Jamu?

[02:47:24]

wagnerrp:

it was a whole two minutes off

[02:47:24]

wagnerrp:

nope

[02:47:38]

elmojo:

nevermind

[02:47:52]

wagnerrp:

what do you need? i may be able to help

[02:48:03]

elmojo:

just curious

[02:48:08]

elmojo:

I know who it is now

[02:48:18]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: What is the issue?

[02:48:25]

jheizer:

yeah crazy, this is one of those mobo/proc that have been going forever, XP 2000+

[02:48:44]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: nothing is wrong :) ... was thinking of trying it out tonight

[02:48:48]

hednod:

jheizer: its not the hardware its the changes to timer code in the kernel

[02:48:55]

hednod:

jheizer: you said it started happening after the upgrade

[02:49:08]

jheizer:

hednod: yeah agreed

[02:49:16]

jheizer:

hedno: at -6.05 already

[02:49:29]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: it is the only way to get fanart for recordings, right?

[02:49:57]

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[02:50:27]

hednod:

jheizer: well its only 6ms off, not too bad. lets see where it is in 20 minutes. if its drifting slow enough now ntpd should be able to keep up with it.

[02:50:28]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: No jamu gets MythVideo metadata and all graphics and Scheduled and Recorded graphics.

[02:50:50]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Think he misread your question

[02:50:54]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, Yes, the only automated way

[02:51:00]

iamlindoro:

only other option is to get it manually

[02:51:33]

jheizer:

hedno: looks like it reset it self, back to 0

[02:51:54]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Yes I misread your question, iamlindoro gave the correct answer

[02:51:55]

hednod:

jheizer: sounds like ntpd has a handle on it now

[02:52:01]

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[02:52:11]

iamlindoro:

:)

[02:52:25]

elmojo:

how can you get metadata for recordings manually?

[02:52:26]

jheizer:

hednod: and now -600 to on server and -2.6 to another

[02:52:27]

jheizer:

lol

[02:52:33]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: is it in the UI?

[02:52:42]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, it doesn't get metadata for recordings, just images

[02:52:52]

hednod:

jheizer: -600 is still less than a second.

[02:52:53]

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[02:53:00]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, and no, you need to cron the -MW option

[02:53:20]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: ok, so jamu is the way to go for fanart and recordings?

[02:54:01]

hednod:

jheizer: ntpd needs a little time to figure out whats going on and compensate, so give it time. 30 minutes at least before you being to worry

[02:54:05]

iamlindoro:

yep, unless you prefer to download and name it properly manually :)

[02:54:10]

jheizer:

hednod: yeah, just funny

[02:54:12]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: don't know if you missed it or not but [22540] reverses rew/ffwd in the -fixes branch

[02:54:24]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I caught it, yeah

[02:54:54]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: does that fanart for recordings ever get cleaned up?

[02:55:10]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, it does if you also cron the jamu -J option

[02:55:17]

hednod:

jheizer: if your clock stablizes very good, the "poll" time will increase. because it does not need to poll as often.

[02:55:23]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, it's definitely necessary to read the wiki page for it

[02:55:36]

hednod:

jheizer: it the clock is drifting a lot, the poll time will decrease, because it has to check more often to remain in sync

[02:55:36]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: ok, I need to stop asking questions that can be answered by -help

[02:55:41]

elmojo:

:)

[02:56:23]

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[02:56:46]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Jamu for MythTV use the wiki! Jamu has many options and can confuse first time users. THe wiki is geared towards jamu's use with MythTV.

[02:56:47]

jheizer:

hednod: awesome thanks for the help. never came across the ntpq -p, definitely a very helpful command

[02:57:25]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: ok... and btw thanks for creating this tool!

[02:57:37]

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[02:57:54]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Thank me when you get it all working then try Miro Bridge ;)

[02:58:18]

iamlindoro:

Which I like even more :)

[02:58:32]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: I keep seeing/hearing refs to Miro Bridge.. I"ve never heard of it

[02:58:40]

elmojo:

something you have to buy?

[02:58:54]

RDV_Linux:

iamlindoro: Well your prejudice Mr MythVideo ;)

[02:59:10]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, free, also with a wiki page :)

[02:59:19]

iamlindoro:

and an awesome source of free, legit internet programming

[02:59:31]

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[03:03:02]

** elmojo runs off to find something called a wiki **

[03:04:12]

Dagmar:

wikiwikiwikiwildwildwest

[03:04:22]

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[03:07:12]

Seventoes:

so i have my dvr connected to my mac with a crossover cable sharing the wifi connection

[03:08:12]

Seventoes:

what would be the best way to make a folder on my mac available to my mythtv box so i can watch videos without transfering manually?

[03:08:19]

wagnerrp:

most people buy a switch and call it a day

[03:08:19]

Seventoes:

preferredly not to other comps on the wifi network, just between the 1–1 link with the cable

[03:09:05]

wagnerrp:

as to how you would share files over the network on a Mac, and even how you would share them only over one network

[03:09:15]

wagnerrp:

im sure you can find some Genius to answer that for you

[03:09:20]

wagnerrp:

here, we just do mythtv

[03:09:20]

[R]:

rofl

[03:09:23]

** mag0o chuckles **

[03:09:26]

Seventoes:

lol all right

[03:11:56]

Seventoes:

a genius is gunna know crap about sharing with ubuntu but i'll figure it out :P

[03:11:57]

Seventoes:

http://www.behanna.org/osx/nfs/howto1.html

[03:11:57]

Seventoes:

ftw

[03:12:29]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt matter, CIFS is CIFS

[03:12:37]

wagnerrp:

if a Mac can share with windows, it can share with linux

[03:13:24]

wagnerrp:

or as it seems to support NFS, just lock the export to a single IP, and youre done

[03:13:31]

Seventoes:

yeah

[03:23:59]

Chicago:

Hi.I'm trying to get good video out of my hvr-1600. I have tried to troubleshoot this a few different ways, but no luck. Eventually, the frontend crashes with "Failed to Reinit Video."

[03:24:12]

Chicago:

The output from 'femon' is here -> http://pastebin.ca/1631551

[03:24:32]

Chicago:

I don't really understand howto interpret it though, because this is my first time using it.

[03:25:12]

Chicago:

The jitterness in my output on the hvr-1600 corresponds to the lines in the pastebin where ber is not 000000000 and unc is not 000000000

[03:26:05]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: seems like it doesn't find anything... i get the following type of messages

[03:26:32]

elmojo:

Warning: For Series (the office), season (5) or Episode (21) not found tvdb Series not found(the_office_s05e21_the_michael_scott_paper_company)

[03:26:50]

elmojo:

if I manually use 'w' from the MV UI then everything works fine

[03:28:04]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, did you run an interactive session first?

[03:28:12]

iamlindoro:

(as indicated in the wiki)

[03:28:29]

elmojo:

no

[03:28:36]

** iamlindoro points at the wiki again **

[03:28:59]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: the -MW option only works from your Scheduled and Recorded information e.g. from Scheduled Direct. While the -MIV works exclusively on MythVideo files.

[03:29:32]

iamlindoro:

Though the above seems to be output from a MythVideo session-- which requires an interactive session to start

[03:29:52]

elmojo:

k, I ran -MWN

[03:30:10]

iamlindoro:

well now you're just making options up :)

[03:30:17]

iamlindoro:

or at least, your own combinations

[03:30:22]

elmojo:

but I don't see the fanart showing up in the recordings

[03:30:27]

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[03:30:39]

elmojo:

option N is required if you are using NFS :)

[03:30:55]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: iamlindoro is nailing it. -MWN is only workings on Scheduled and Recorded videos

[03:31:18]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, are you using a theme that supports PBB fanart?

[03:31:29]

iamlindoro:

and what is Jamu saying in terms of fanart downloaded, etc.

[03:31:33]

elmojo:

Mythbuntu currently

[03:31:52]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Your example looks like a MythVideo file name.

[03:31:53]

elmojo:

Jamu final stats say that 0 Fanart graphics downloaded

[03:32:30]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: pastebin the log

[03:32:35]

elmojo:

the why did it scan my MV directory if I specified -MW

[03:33:00]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: ^^^

[03:33:13]

Chicago:

Is the unc block count supposed to go back to zero after every read?

[03:33:38]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: again pastebin the log including the command line of jamu with options

[03:34:08]

mzb:

I was under the impression that trunk streams videos for mythvideo from the backend now ... is this not the case, and I must nfs mount?

[03:34:27]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: run this time with -MWNV the V for verbose

[03:35:08]

iamlindoro:

mzb, please read the mythvideo .22 transition guide on the wiki

[03:35:20]

mzb:

hehe, k

[03:35:38]

iamlindoro:

Spent all that time writing it, I'm damn well going to insist people read it ;)

[03:36:00]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythVideo_.22_Transition_Guide

[03:37:28]

mzb:

huh? : Change "Directories that hold videos" to point at a directory that is not the same as the one the Storage Group points at.

[03:37:41]

mzb:

empty dir, then?

[03:38:08]

iamlindoro:

What's unclear

[03:38:09]

iamlindoro:

?

[03:38:17]

iamlindoro:

it doesn't say empty dir, it says "not the same dir"

[03:38:28]

iamlindoro:

though honestly it wont' really harm you now if you do

[03:38:48]

iamlindoro:

Just remember once you do this you're going to need to redo your metadata...

[03:39:18]

mzb:

but it's remote, on the backend

[03:39:34]

mzb:

and it's *not* nfs mounted (atm)

[03:39:38]

mzb:

so what's the point?

[03:39:53]

iamlindoro:

if it's not mounted ATM, then you can do anything you like

[03:40:01]

iamlindoro:

the point is to deal with the people who *leave* it mounted

[03:40:02]

mzb:

the FE isn't going to be storing videos, after all

[03:40:06]

mzb:

ok

[03:40:07]

iamlindoro:

you don't mind if I keep them safe to, do you?

[03:40:10]

iamlindoro:

er too

[03:40:24]

mzb:

?

[03:40:24]

iamlindoro:

and the FE setting still has some value

[03:40:35]

mzb:

why not blank?

[03:40:38]

iamlindoro:

since many people like to plug in USB/thumb/DVD drives

[03:40:46]

mzb:

ok, I don't

[03:40:57]

iamlindoro:

too much work, do what you like

[03:41:48]

mzb:

ok, I'll play. Thanks for your assistance.

[03:42:22]

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[03:43:13]

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[03:43:51]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: didn't have lxml installed

[03:44:30]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Ok did that solve the problem though or just moved a little ahead?

[03:44:36]

MythBork:

stupid question, is the AMD64 build of 0.22 64bit native?

[03:44:53]

Dagmar:

Ask whoever built it.

[03:45:02]

** MythBork waites for the impending trout impact **

[03:45:11]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: haven't tried yet and I'm also moving to the backend

[03:45:15]

MythBork:

ah yes, there it is

[03:45:15]

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[03:45:20]

Dagmar:

Shirik: I'm still pissed at that guy for deleting his Guide to Trolling

[03:45:23]

Dagmar:

wrong chan

[03:46:08]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: add the "V" for verbose option like -MWNV it gives more info

[03:46:23]

mzb:

nonsensical

[03:46:49]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: it seems to be working now... installed LXML and ran on the backend and it seems fine

[03:47:03]

elmojo:

not sure which made the difference

[03:47:22]

elmojo:

wiki doesn't mention lxml as a prerequisite

[03:48:20]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux, iamlindoro: I now have fanart for recordings, sweet!

[03:48:24]

RDV_Linux:

You must always run jamu on a BE as it needs access to local files. Heck I never heard anyone needing to add lxml before and a number of people are using jamu.

[03:48:29]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, cool :)

[03:48:46]

iamlindoro:

so just cron that and -J up and you always will

[03:49:01]

iamlindoro:

(personally I run it at 5 and 35 after each hour)

[03:49:05]

hads:

What's with Jamu wanting write access to all directories?

[03:49:23]

hads:

I should get around to reading the code.

[03:49:36]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: cool, will do

[03:49:39]

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[03:49:57]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: You need only run jamu -J once a week

[03:50:17]

elmojo:

ok

[03:50:23]

iamlindoro:

hads, For images/metadata, the reason is obvious-- for video dirs, presumably to allow proper renaming of the files if enabled to do so

[03:50:36]

iamlindoro:

(as Jamu can also clean up your filenames)

[03:51:01]

hads:

Ah, that's the bit I didn't know about, makes sense. Cheers.

[03:51:02]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: now if I just had ArcLight

[03:51:17]

** iamlindoro puts around in Arclight just to be mean **

[03:51:21]

hads:

And yeah, it was video dirs I was thing about.

[03:51:29]

hads:

/thing/thinking/

[03:51:41]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I'll show you lots of pictures, does that count? ;)

[03:51:55]

elmojo:

no it doesn't... just makes me angry

[03:51:57]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, does it make you feel angrier to know that RDV_Linux has used it? ;)

[03:52:04]

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[03:52:08]

elmojo:

seriously!

[03:52:12]

elmojo:

that's not right

[03:52:35]

iamlindoro:

Though nobody has used it a version from the last few weeks, which is nearly done

[03:52:36]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: I am the Arclight alpha tester

[03:52:52]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: maybe I'll have to trade my patches in the future for your themes :)

[03:52:54]

iamlindoro:

Now Arclight relies on a fairly large MythUI patch that hasn't been submitted/applied yet

[03:53:08]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: iamlindoro was the Miro Bridge alpha tester

[03:53:17]

iamlindoro:

so even if I wanted RDV_Linux to try a new version it wouldn't work quite right

[03:53:43]

RDV_Linux:

As a bitch every day ;)

[03:54:31]

iamlindoro:

anyway, even though it's near fully themed, I'm still going to wait most/all of the .23 dev cycle before releasing it

[03:54:51]

iamlindoro:

both to add all the new MythUI features and to give myself *too* much time to test/tweak it

[03:55:27]

iamlindoro:

RDV_Linux can give a more impartial review, but I have more fun using it than I ever have any other theme-- and personally I think it is to Graphite what Graphite was to something like GANT

[03:55:32]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: understood

[03:55:53]

elmojo:

from your screenshots I'd agree

[03:56:14]

iamlindoro:

I have put a LOT more thought into usability/consistency than I did to Graphite

[03:56:29]

iamlindoro:

and having all the theming concepts down pat helps a lot, too

[03:56:34]

elmojo:

do you have a screenshot of your PBB?

[03:56:48]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: The first thing that jumps out at you is theme consistency. Especially between Watch Recordings and MythVideo.

[03:57:28]

elmojo:

I think it is a great challenge to balance the fanart, simplicity and readability

[03:57:44]

elmojo:

it can get to be too "busy" if not designed right IMO

[03:58:59]

iamlindoro:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/current.png

[03:59:06]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: anyway to tell Jamu to only scan a specific MV directory?

[03:59:07]

iamlindoro:

That's what the PBB looks like as of tonight

[03:59:50]

elmojo:

cool, I like alot

[04:00:17]

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[04:00:22]

elmojo:

good to see the filesystem usage too

[04:00:28]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Yes check the wiki for the move function just use the same directory for the source and destination. e.g. jamu -MINV "/source" "/source"

[04:00:30]

iamlindoro:

screenshot will be replaced with a larger video preview once that's available

[04:01:22]

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[04:01:40]

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[04:06:23]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, was fun to get Graphite done, but I rushed/halfassed WAY too much of it rather than waiting for the right choices to occur to me-- and I want this one to knock people's socks off so I'm trying to be a bit more conservative

[04:06:56]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: all three images replaced with a preview? or just the screenshot?

[04:07:08]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, just the screenshot

[04:08:12]

iamlindoro:

If the "depends" logic stuff is finished in time, I may set alternate layouts for that quadrant based on the existence of coverart/banner/etc.

[04:08:55]

wagnerrp:

IMHO, the three images up there just looks a bit sloppy, in contrast to how clean the rest of the theme looks

[04:08:57]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux that didn't work

[04:09:04]

wagnerrp:

almost like you have the images, so you feel obligated to use them

[04:09:37]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux; used -> ./jamu.py -MINV "/srv/myvideos/tv/the_office/" "/srv/myvideos/tv/the_office/"

[04:09:40]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: What were you looking for jamu to do?

[04:10:14]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: only process a subdirectory in the MV directory

[04:10:24]

hads:

wagnerrp: I agree

[04:10:52]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: I mean what did it not do that surprised you?

[04:10:54]

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[04:10:58]

wagnerrp:

can you put the banner in-line in the list?

[04:11:05]

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[04:11:29]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: it still processed everything in my MV directory

[04:11:37]

wagnerrp:

similar to channel icons in the guide?

[04:12:07]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: shouldn't it have just processed the_office directory?

[04:12:39]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, I could, but in experimenting with that kind of thing I didn't find anything that made me happy

[04:13:01]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, It did give me some ideas of how to do it for the next one, but didn't quite "fit" with this concept, so maybe for the next one

[04:13:04]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: You could try the same command line but use options "-MGNV"

[04:13:45]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: better but it didn't download fanart

[04:14:54]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: probably still need to do an interactive session first

[04:16:11]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: I am going to sleep now, but as the wiki says the first interactive (I) session takes time and is boring.

[04:17:02]

RDV_Linux:

elmojo: Both MythVideo and Jamu need the reference numbers from tvdb and tmdb to download anything.

[04:18:13]

elmojo:

RDV_Linux: understood.. thanks for the help

[04:18:19]

iamlindoro:

ugh, is Fringe on hiatus already?

[04:18:51]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: are you still going to have that alpha pulse (or whatever) in the PBB for ArcLight?

[04:18:59]

wagnerrp:

what is this 'fileman.png'?

[04:19:18]

wagnerrp:

some new window? or is that what pops up when you are manually selecting images for a video?

[04:19:21]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, the File Manager widget (for selecting files from a directory)

[04:19:27]

iamlindoro:

among other places

[04:19:33]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: I know you might get tired of me saying it, but I hate my CPU being pegged at 99.9%

[04:19:49]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, I wonder what you expect for me to say on the 50th time

[04:19:58]

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[04:20:28]

iamlindoro:

a) the issue experienced in Graphite is a combination of alphapulse + negative coordinate use, b) the two are never used together in Arclight so far

[04:20:38]

iamlindoro:

and negative coordinates not at all

[04:21:11]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: k, cool... just hoping it's "Energy Star" approved

[04:21:35]

elmojo:

and I didn't know it was a side effect of alphapulse + negative coordinates

[04:21:36]

iamlindoro:

14% CPU here ATM

[04:21:46]

elmojo:

then that's much, much better

[04:21:49]

iamlindoro:

what about the last couple times I told you the same?

[04:22:09]

elmojo:

don't recall you mentioning it was both involved

[04:22:27]

elmojo:

but you probably did... so my bad

[04:22:33]

iamlindoro:

np

[04:23:56]

elmojo:

you might want to hide your screenshots with the upcoming theming contest :)

[04:24:19]

iamlindoro:

Heh, the theming contest rules set it up such that a) you can't copy someone else, and b) I get to decide what counts as copying ;)

[04:24:27]

iamlindoro:

I know this, since I wrote the rules ;)

[04:24:42]

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[04:24:47]

elmojo:

hehe

[04:25:18]

iamlindoro:

Just cleaned up all my old stale will-never-apply-to-anything-again rules... made me sad

[04:25:28]

iamlindoro:

Pushing Daisies... Terminator... etc.

[04:26:00]

elmojo:

huh?

[04:26:25]

** iamlindoro feels like he must be speaking greek tonight **

[04:26:32]

iamlindoro:

I cleaned up my recording rules

[04:26:36]

wagnerrp:

tv shows

[04:26:41]

iamlindoro:

and removed those which can no longer possibly apply

[04:26:46]

wagnerrp:

ones that are cancelled, never to show up on tv again

[04:27:13]

elmojo:

ah ok

[04:27:28]

elmojo:

I'm obviously a little slow sometimes :0

[04:27:30]

** iamlindoro sets MythWeather on fire **

[04:27:36]

iamlindoro:

There, now I don't have to theme it!

[04:28:18]

wagnerrp:

yeah... not like you have any use for it...

[04:28:31]

wagnerrp:

whats the weather outside? bright, shiny, and warm....

[04:28:33]

iamlindoro:

"Oh, 75 and sunny.... again." ;)

[04:28:34]

elmojo:

I'd like to set fire to a lot of things like a ton of useless settings, screens, libraries, etc

[04:28:57]

iamlindoro:

elmojo, You should see the massive list of settings I'm going to propose we remove when the rational folks are awake tomorrow

[04:29:01]

iamlindoro:

easily half of them

[04:29:23]

elmojo:

please include "Use video as timebase"

[04:29:26]

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[04:29:29]

iamlindoro:

It's on the list

[04:30:00]

elmojo:

and speaking of libraries I'm not even sure libmpeg2 is useful anymore

[04:30:16]

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[04:30:24]

iamlindoro:

Well, that one I'll leave up to people like Mark and Daniel to decide

[04:30:47]

wagnerrp:

yeah, it was supposed to be higher efficiency, but thats not really needed for anything but marginal systems (Atom and ATV)

[04:31:01]

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[04:31:20]

iamlindoro:

and ffmpeg's may be just as/more efficient now anyway

[04:31:35]

wagnerrp:

maybe change the help text to say 'alternate decoder, not recommended'

[04:33:19]

elmojo:

I still use XvMC on one system but if they rip it out I wouldn't say a word because I've been through the code and see how messy it makes things

[04:33:52]

iamlindoro:

XvMC will likely stick around for now

[04:34:18]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: I still have an Athlon XP box that I was thinking of benchmarking... would be interesting to know

[04:34:49]

elmojo:

only other benefit would be if FFmpeg couldn't play a certain video then maybe libmpeg2 could

[04:35:08]

wagnerrp:

well my sister's XP1600 (1.4GHz) barely managed an episode of The Office, using ffdshow under windows

[04:35:48]

elmojo:

what type of video?

[04:35:54]

wagnerrp:

ATSC 1080i

[04:36:07]

wagnerrp:

of course my local broadcasters all seem to run rather low bitrate

[04:36:13]

wagnerrp:

it was probably around 14mbps

[04:36:45]

wagnerrp:

my 1.93 Barton has no problem with any ATSC ive ever thrown at it

[04:37:16]

elmojo:

that's actually pretty impressive for an XP1600

[04:37:24]

wagnerrp:

and thats with deint running (on the Barton)

[04:37:30]

elmojo:

I've got an XP3000 that can barely do it

[04:37:50]

wagnerrp:

oh? the barton is only a 2600

[04:37:59]

wagnerrp:

maybe its that sub-par bitrate again

[04:38:27]

elmojo:

it's been a while since I used FFmpeg software decoding

[04:38:38]

elmojo:

the latest resyncs could have improved things greatly

[04:39:17]

wagnerrp:

behavior has been largely the same across the last three syncs

[04:48:11]

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[04:55:29]

PhoenixUT:

Hey all, I recently ran into some issues with deadlocks on my mythbackend after upgrading to mysql 5.0.70. Has anyone else run into any problems?

[04:55:55]

PhoenixUT:

What appears to be happening, is when a new recording starts, and locks the recorded table it somehow gets hung up and never unlocks the table

[04:56:53]

Chicago:

Oh Joy! The cloning the repository solved my problem. HVR-1600 works for me

[04:57:37]

PhoenixUT:

Looks like it locks up on the following query.prepare() call in RecordingInfo::insert_program()

[04:59:05]

PhoenixUT:

I did see some commits touching the MSqlQuery::prepareLock, but the change appears to have been reverted shortly after.

[04:59:23]

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[05:04:12]

mzb:

*cackle*, Ice Age 2 a "Disaster Film" ? :))

[05:04:33]

wagnerrp:

well it is

[05:04:51]

wagnerrp:

worldwide cataclysm

[05:07:43]

mzb:

hehe

[05:08:05]

mzb:

like Shrek is a Road Movie? :)

[05:08:26]

wagnerrp:

no it isnt, they rarely used roads

[05:09:00]

mzb:

:)

[05:09:22]

mzb:

I'm surprised The Wizard of Oz isn't in that category too!

[05:09:39]

wagnerrp:

well they were on a road

[05:09:58]

wagnerrp:

and Dorthy well definitely on some form of a trip

[05:10:10]

mzb:

agreed

[05:10:48]

mzb:

overall quite impressive

[05:11:13]

mzb:

hopefully she'll watch videos if I can get this to a usable point

[05:11:42]

wagnerrp:

maybe that tornado hit a peyota patch before reaching her house

[05:11:54]

wagnerrp:

peyote

[05:12:03]

mzb:

(rather than watching Wheelchair Basketball finals)

[05:15:17]

wagnerrp:

apparently the 'Native American Church' officially uses peyote

[05:15:37]

wagnerrp:

thats a rather suspect name

[05:16:25]

wagnerrp:

as if the tens of thousands of tribes and civilizations across north and south america all had the same belief structure

[05:17:24]

wagnerrp:

thats worse than people who use the phrase 'african culture'

[05:18:18]

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[05:18:18]

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[05:18:40]

wagnerrp:

i guess i should get back to trying making my analog tuner work

[05:34:02]

Captain_Murdoch:

PhoenixUT, did you get a backtrace? we did have one BT earlier showing a lock issue because Mysql was locking up inside their prepare, and since we lock around our prepares, that prevented us from doing anymore queries because the first Mysql prepare wasn't done yet.

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[05:41:14]

PhoenixUT:

I didn't have debug symbols compiled in the code when it happened.. just the backend log

[05:41:49]

PhoenixUT:

it could be an issue with 5.0.70

[05:43:29]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–19 21:00:22.870 MSqlQuery::exec("LOCK TABLES recorded WRITE")

[05:43:36]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–19 21:00:22.872 MSqlQuery::exec() "INSERT INTO recordedseek (chanid, starttime, mark, type, offset) VALUES ( '1705' , '2009-10–19T20:30:00' , '54330' , '9' , '2700902564' );"

[05:43:46]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–19 21:00:22.878 MSqlQuery::exec() "SELECT recordid FROM recorded WHERE chanid = '1710' AND starttime = '2009-10–19T21:00:00'"

[05:43:48]

PhoenixUT:

and that was it

[05:44:13]

Captain_Murdoch:

no one else has run into the issue before and I think the previous backtrace showed one thread locked inside MySQL's prepare and our own prepare lock prevented other threads from calling our prepare.

[05:44:20]

PhoenixUT:

the processlist on the mysql server showed one thread in a locked state

[05:44:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

did it say on what?

[05:44:44]

PhoenixUT:

and open tables had in_use >= 2 on the recorded table

[05:45:01]

PhoenixUT:

I seems to be random the two times I have seen this happen

[05:45:11]

Captain_Murdoch:

do you have the whole log?

[05:45:18]

PhoenixUT:

yeah

[05:45:29]

PhoenixUT:

didn't have full DB debugging on for the first time

[05:45:41]

PhoenixUT:

2nd time when I was able to reproduce it, I had it enabled

[05:46:26]

PhoenixUT:

your description sounds very similar to what I saw

[05:46:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

can you post the 2nd log somewhere?

[05:47:03]

mzb:

is there a key/shortcut to change the parent level of a video?

[05:47:06]

PhoenixUT:

yeah I'll see if I can throw it on pastebin or something

[05:47:19]

mzb:

(editing metadata is rather tedious, I've discovered;))

[05:47:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

if it is too large, grep out just the MSqlQuery lines referring to the recorded table. that might be enough to see what is going on.

[05:48:10]

Captain_Murdoch:

backtrace would be better, but that will at least tell us what just ran on recorded, perhaps something is holding that table for read somehow.

[05:49:10]

PhoenixUT:

I recompiled with debug enabled, but the bt seems to still have a lot of missing info.. not exactly sure why

[05:49:20]

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[05:49:26]

PhoenixUT:

some of it is from missing QT symbols and such

[05:49:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

Myth routines or external libs?

[05:49:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

won't get those unless you have qt libs compiled with debug info.

[05:50:04]

PhoenixUT:

but even some of the myth libraries don't seem to have symbols.. and now I can't get it to hang up again

[05:51:58]

PhoenixUT:

I guess I do have a BT of the 2nd hangup, but doesn't appear to have a full symbol list I'll throw that up somewhere as well

[05:59:38]

PhoenixUT:

backend log: http://filebin.ca/mmbenc

[06:00:15]

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[06:01:02]

PhoenixUT:

backtrace: http://www.pastebin.ca/1631866

[06:01:19]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: do you happen to remember how to check which MySQL storage engines are enabled? (If not off the top of your head, I'll look it up.)

[06:01:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

no

[06:02:17]

sphery:

nvm... It's the sensible: SHOW ENGINES;

[06:02:21]

sphery:

thanks, though

[06:05:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

we should put 'this' in the verbose printout for MSqlQuery::exec() so we can see which connection was used for what.

[06:05:40]

Captain_Murdoch:

or the mysql pid or something unique.

[06:05:44]

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[06:06:29]

PhoenixUT:

the couple of times I've seen it lock up seems to coincide with recordings starting up on several tuners

[06:07:17]

PhoenixUT:

I upgraded to 5.0.70 along with a new version of trunk last week, and that's when I started seeing the issues

[06:07:46]

PhoenixUT:

was built from rev 22353

[06:07:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

did you restart mythbackend in the middle of this log?

[06:08:28]

PhoenixUT:

i don't believe so

[06:08:39]

PhoenixUT:

should have been before and after that chunk of the log

[06:09:23]

justinh:

mzb: the joys of user contributed data. meh

[06:10:11]

mzb:

:)

[06:10:43]

PhoenixUT:

there was a recording just finishing around the same time, one scheduled recording starting and I threw in several more random programs to record manually

[06:11:14]

PhoenixUT:

the first of them locked the record table and appears to have never unlocked it

[06:12:07]

Captain_Murdoch:

the "New DB connection, total: 1" is interesting. we should have done a "insert int recorded" right after the "select recordid from recorded", but it could be that the lock was inside the prepare for the insert.

[06:13:06]

PhoenixUT:

I think the DB connection might have been from mythcommflag starting up for the newly finished recording

[06:13:32]

justinh:

gah. Give people cisco IP phones with a choice of ringtones & what do the idiots around me choose? Only the most annoying ones. Some american woman saying "are you there?". Yeah well he's not ****ing there

[06:13:32]

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[06:13:53]

[R]:

justinh: someone in my office had that one for a while

[06:13:54]

PhoenixUT:

yep that's what I was seeing, only one of the two queries inside of the insert_program() function actually complete

[06:13:59]

[R]:

justinh: drove us all nuts

[06:13:59]

justinh:

that & the bloody drowning saxophone one

[06:14:29]

Captain_Murdoch:

PhoenixUT, makes sense.

[06:15:00]

PhoenixUT:

and there's not much inside that task call, just those two queries :)

[06:15:03]

justinh:

apparently nobody in the IT dept knows how to replace them. One guy figured out how to hack a phone & insert his own but he almost got sacked for it

[06:15:35]

PhoenixUT:

any ideas on the backtrace? seems like an awful lot of symbols missing

[06:15:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

we don't print out the exec() verbose call until after the MySQL exec, so it's hard to tell whether we locked in the insert's prepare or exec.

[06:15:59]

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[06:16:01]

PhoenixUT:

aah gotya

[06:16:11]

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[06:18:46]

Captain_Murdoch:

are you sure all your libs were rebuilt after you enabled debug? can you check dates on those /usr/lib/libmyth* files?

[06:19:15]

PhoenixUT:

yeah all replaced today

[06:19:59]

PhoenixUT:

I think when that backtrace was created I did have an old mythfrontend process running that may have had the non-debug versions of the libraries still loaded in memory though.. could have caused some weirdness

[06:20:33]

Captain_Murdoch:

looks weird. doesn't help me much.

[06:20:39]

PhoenixUT:

yeah

[06:20:47]

Captain_Murdoch:

how many times has this happened?

[06:20:55]

PhoenixUT:

twice in normal use

[06:21:27]

PhoenixUT:

then just the one time I was able to by chance

[06:22:27]

PhoenixUT:

can't seem to reliably reproduce the problem though

[06:25:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

did you run "show processlist" to see what was going on, is that how you saw the one proc locked?

[06:25:54]

PhoenixUT:

yep

[06:26:18]

PhoenixUT:

the output might still be in my scrollback buffer

[06:26:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, that might help.

[06:26:45]

Captain_Murdoch:

might show what was locking what.

[06:28:15]

PhoenixUT:

http://www.pastebin.ca/1631891

[06:28:31]

PhoenixUT:

that was from right after the lockup from the posted logfile

[06:29:33]

PhoenixUT:

still trying to get it to hang up again to see if I can get a better log/backtrace

[06:29:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok, thanks. looking at it now.

[06:31:40]

PhoenixUT:

the processes that show up as locked in the process list after the deadlock, seem to be anything that tries to access the recorded table

[06:31:58]

PhoenixUT:

since the insert_program() call locks up and never unlocks the table

[06:34:31]

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[06:35:50]

Captain_Murdoch:

insert_program would have either prepared the "insert into recorded" and exec()ed that, or it would have called "unlock tables" and returned if the program already existed in the table. if it did already exist, it would have printed and error about that or the error saying that the select failed.

[06:36:50]

PhoenixUT:

yeah didn't see any errors in any of the logs after it's locked.. they should print just under the 'important' verbosity right?

[06:38:05]

Captain_Murdoch:

actually, hmmm.... maybe I know what's going on.... ok, we get a write lock on recorded, then we select recordid. while we're doing that, another thread gets Myth's prepare lock, but that locks in MySQL on the prepare since we have the table locked for write. then, in the original thread, we issue the prepare on "insert into recorded". that locks trying to get the Myth prepare lock, and we have a deadlock....

[06:38:55]

PhoenixUT:

sounds reasonable

[06:38:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

it's a race condition.

[06:39:47]

PhoenixUT:

and purely coincedental on how it can happen

[06:40:19]

PhoenixUT:

if for some reason the exec takes a long time

[06:40:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah. I think we were planning on taking out that prepare lock post-0.22. we didn't want to touch it now because it had been there so long.

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[06:41:23]

PhoenixUT:

do you know why it was put there originally?

[06:41:32]

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[06:41:37]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah, prepare wasn't thread safe a long time ago

[06:42:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

trying to think of any other way around that other than removing the lock.

[06:43:42]

PhoenixUT:

if there were some way to manage the lock in libmythdb when the mysql table gets locked

[06:44:51]

PhoenixUT:

maybe a mutex that is set when the table is locked, doesn't allow DB access until the table unlocks.. at least not to any table that is locked in MySQL

[06:45:48]

PhoenixUT:

I wonder if this is caused by a change in locking behavior in 5.0.70

[06:46:21]

PhoenixUT:

if the queries didn't block in the SQL server previously but errored or something instead this wouldn't have happened

[06:46:26]

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[06:51:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

they might not have locked prepares when the table was locked.

[06:53:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

we'd have to setup our own map of locked tables or hit the DB each time to check or parse queries to see if they were going to hit a locked table. all are complicated hacks. we need to get rid of that lock or else use non-prepared queries whenever we secure a write lock.

[06:54:59]

PhoenixUT:

I agree, seems more trouble than it's worth to try and catch all the misc cases when a table is locked

[06:57:23]

PhoenixUT:

is it really necessary to lock the recorded table for the insert op?

[06:57:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

yes, it's to make sure that 2 recorders aren't recording the same filename at the same time.

[06:58:31]

Captain_Murdoch:

we don't do much locking.

[06:59:48]

Captain_Murdoch:

other than schemalock, the only thing that we lock is recorded. mythshutdown locks settings for some reason, but that's not mainstream.

[07:00:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

schemalock is the table that we lock when we do a schema upgrade.

[07:01:14]

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[07:04:38]

PhoenixUT:

I think I figured out a way to make it easier to force the deadlock..

[07:04:58]

Captain_Murdoch:

just put a sleep after the select recordid. :)

[07:05:06]

PhoenixUT:

queued up a bunch of recordings, then just sat refreshing mythweb recorded programs list over and over. :)

[07:05:18]

PhoenixUT:

I might have a better backtrace for ya now just for reference..

[07:05:25]

Captain_Murdoch:

ok.

[07:05:44]

PhoenixUT:

looks like the exact same failure mechanism

[07:05:56]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–20 00:04:01.906 MSqlQuery::exec("LOCK TABLES recorded WRITE")

[07:05:56]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–20 00:04:01.907 MSqlQuery::exec() "SELECT commflagged, cutlist, autoexpire, editing, bookmark, watched, preserve FROM recorded LEFT JOIN recordedprogram ON (recorded.chanid = recordedprogram.chanid AND recorded.progstart = recordedprogram.starttime) WHERE recorded.chanid = '3058' AND recorded.starttime = '2008-07–09T05:59:00' ;"

[07:05:56]

PhoenixUT:

2009-10–20 00:04:01.909 MSqlQuery::exec() "SELECT recordid FROM recorded WHERE chanid = '1705' AND starttime = '2009-10–20T00:04:00'"

[07:07:38]

PhoenixUT:

bah, bt is still messed up somehow

[07:07:57]

Captain_Murdoch:

doesn't matter, I'm 99.9% sure this is what is happening.

[07:08:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

based on the prepare locks in your processlist.

[07:08:14]

PhoenixUT:

dunno what the deal is there.. some of the myth libraries symbols show up, but then a whole bunch of just nothing

[07:11:22]

PhoenixUT:

yeah I can reliably lock it up now just refreshing mythweb. while recordings are starting

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[07:17:18]

Captain_Murdoch:

solution is probably going to be taking out the lock, but that may not go in until after 0.22. if you want to try reproducing your issue after applying a 1-line change, you can remove the "static" in front of "static QMutex prepareLock" in libs/libmythdb/mythdbcon.h

[07:17:49]

Captain_Murdoch:

that will still use the lock, but every DB connection will have its own lock so they won't lock up each other.

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[07:23:04]

tjcarter:

Don't suppose anyone here has advice for developing patches for unsupported FW box?

[07:31:17]

Captain_Murdoch:

depends on what unsupported means and what your level of knowledge is. sometimes support is as simple as adding the vendor id to the list. that's about my extent of FW knowledge.

[07:32:16]

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[07:32:25]

pak0:

good morning

[07:32:58]

justinh:

it's certainly morning here

[07:33:20]

pak0:

this is incredibly justinh xD

[07:33:32]

pak0:

just installl the latest updates from mythtv trunk

[07:33:39]

pak0:

reboot my machine and......

[07:33:45]

justinh:

reboot?!

[07:33:53]

pak0:

x dont recognizes my lcd

[07:34:08]

pak0:

seems a crt monitor and can?t take the correct resolution

[07:34:25]

justinh:

LCD TV you mean?

[07:34:30]

pak0:

yes sorry

[07:34:31]

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[07:34:35]

pak0:

my english sux :P

[07:34:36]

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[07:34:47]

justinh:

a lot of them lie when they spit out the EDID information

[07:35:30]

justinh:

you need to force the video driver to ignore the EDID when that happens

[07:36:25]

pak0:

Option ?IgnoreEDID? ?true? <- this?

[07:36:39]

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[07:36:48]

justinh:

I dunno the exact syntax

[07:37:11]

justinh:

but it looks like something went wrong when you pasted it :P

[07:37:17]

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[07:37:30]

pak0:

ok, just test it and works

[07:37:40]

pak0:

you are the best ^^

[07:37:45]

justinh:

bah

[07:38:01]

justinh:

I know too much about stuff I've never even had to use myself

[07:38:32]

pak0:

my backend now have a lot of errors

[07:38:32]

tjcarter:

Captain_Murdoch: It's a Pace RNG 110

[07:39:00]

pak0:

number of reference frames exceeds max (probably corrupt input), discarding one

[07:39:19]

pak0:

this log is repeating this alot of timmes, my log size is 10MB now lol

[07:39:51]

tjcarter:

Captain_Murdoch: Unsupported means Myth sees it, thinks its a generic box, but can't tune channels or anything. I've heard other Pace boxes can be made to work with 6200ch, but I didn't get a picture when Myth failed to change channel either.

[07:40:16]

justinh:

pak0: insufficient ram on your video card for VDPAU?

[07:40:44]

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[07:41:21]

tjcarter:

Captain_Murdoch: I speak C fluently (a little rusty maybe), but not Linux Firewire API.

[07:41:38]

Dibblah:

pak0: Which Myth version?

[07:41:53]

tjcarter:

and I have lots of experience with wire protocols, but not the one used for FW video devices

[07:41:53]

Dibblah:

It sounds like the commflagger doesn't like your input.

[07:43:07]

pak0:

0.22 trunk

[07:43:07]

pak0:

and have lost some recordings

[07:43:34]

justinh:

btw when you say LOG it's gonna be helpful to say WHICH log

[07:43:57]

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[07:44:07]

pak0:

mythbackend.log

[07:44:33]

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[07:44:35]

justinh:

so nothing to do with mythfrontend then :) Phew

[07:46:58]

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[07:48:27]

pak0:

i try it repairig my tables

[07:49:13]

pak0:

something is wrong, i have recordings for delete, when i delete one, appears two... if i delete one of that nothing pass, buf if i delete two re-pop all my old recordings xD

[07:49:26]

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[07:51:14]

PhoenixUT:

Captain_Murdoch: Thanks for your help with the debug, I'll see if I can reproduce the issue with your suggested fix in place.

[07:51:55]

pak0:

lol, just reboot the machine and now dont start the X, i have an error repeting all time: error while queriying for a remote control evente

[07:52:50]

pak0:

af9015: command failed:255

[07:52:50]

pak0:

> [ 229.496380] dvb-usb: error while querying for an remote control event.

[07:53:10]

pak0:

lol, and now start the x server, my machine is a little crazy xD

[07:53:53]

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[07:53:54]

pak0:

seems a problem about the firmware of the dvb-t, but i have the latest, the mythtv works and i can read channels

[07:56:51]

justinh:

read channels?

[07:57:00]

pak0:

wach channels

[07:57:07]

pak0:

wacht*

[07:57:25]

pak0:

remember my level of english xD, i`m student now alot

[07:57:39]

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[08:02:18]

justinh:

heheheh fixed my wife's playback group to 1.3x time compression. permanently

[08:02:47]

pak0:

yesterday sphery show me to use slim profile to watch hdtv w/o pauses on prebuffering, but today i have one more time this problem

[08:02:52]

pak0:

and still using slim profile

[08:06:37]

pak0:

if i increase the size of buffer ring?

[08:06:42]

pak0:

i have 9400 now

[08:08:41]

Captain_Murdoch:

PhoenixUT, sorry, was working (maintenance window). I'll bring the issue up later today with other devs in IRC.

[08:10:40]

PhoenixUT:

I believe I figured out why the backtraces are useless.. debug compile was built with -fomit-frame-pointer... doh

[08:11:29]

PhoenixUT:

not that it matters now.. ;)

[08:11:43]

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[08:12:28]

pak0:

mltv error 512 now

[08:12:33]

pak0:

xmltv*

[08:14:19]

Captain_Murdoch:

now if only I could figure out this Qt painter issue....

[08:14:38]

justinh:

the issue is caused by the qt painter still existing

[08:14:41]

justinh:

:D

[08:15:03]

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[08:15:03]

Captain_Murdoch:

no, still needed on half my frontends. :) low-power SD-only machines.

[08:15:26]

justinh:

no gl at all? eew

[08:15:36]

justinh:

smells like epia

[08:16:00]

Captain_Murdoch:

not that bad. P3–733 machines w/ onboard i810 or 815 video.

[08:16:13]

justinh:

we should have a whipround & get all everybody with commit access decent hardware :)

[08:16:45]

justinh:

heh I remember my i810 frontend. the gl painter was a definite nono

[08:17:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

actually have one of these on my desk right now running 0.21 playing recordings while I worked some overnight.

[08:17:55]

justinh:

with qt4.6 we don't actually need more than one painter

[08:18:11]

justinh:

you can just have one & let qt work it all out

[08:18:35]

justinh:

if you have good opengl, set qt to use opengl

[08:19:47]

justinh:

not sure yet if 4.6 can differentiate features – but I think I'd prefer effects etc to be theme dependant anyway

[08:22:57]

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[08:28:58]

Dibblah:

Very wierd. Freeview TV lost audio on BBC1 only.

[08:29:30]

justinh:

not really

[08:29:35]

Dibblah:

A couple of days after the retune

[08:29:42]

justinh:

it'd be weird if all channels lost their audio :P

[08:29:55]

Dibblah:

Rescanning channels "fixed" it.

[08:30:14]

Dibblah:

It doesn't appear to have a "fast tuning" setting :(

[08:30:27]

justinh:

how the ...?

[08:30:44]

Dibblah:

I am guessing that it actually does the equivalent of fast tuning. Stupid.

[08:30:47]

justinh:

PIDs are picked out from the stream on tuning, not scanning

[08:31:04]

Dibblah:

ie it stores the PIDs, rather than looking them up in the (SDT?)

[08:31:06]

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[08:31:29]

justinh:

wasn't aware of that

[08:31:45]

Dibblah:

It's not a good way to do it on consumer kit.

[08:31:56]

Dibblah:

And it's seriously not normal.

[08:32:21]

Dibblah:

Don't know what I was expecting from an ebuyer cheapest of the cheap, though. Apparently too much :)

[08:33:25]

justinh:

ahh

[08:33:48]

jduggan_:

why are you using ebuyer cheapest of the cheap? =]

[08:33:57]

Dibblah:

"Sense" TV. The manufacturer disclaims all knowledge. Yay.

[08:34:08]

justinh:

because even that is better than 'livetv' in a certain PVR app?

[08:34:14]

Dibblah:

... Because it was cheap.

[08:34:21]

jduggan_:

live what?

[08:34:24]

jduggan_:

=]

[08:34:46]

jduggan_:

one day i shall get this freeview thing

[08:35:06]

jduggan_:

2012 when they changeover and give moar power

[08:35:34]

Dibblah:

For most people, it's not 2012.

[08:35:46]

Dibblah:

And the power increase isn't automatic.

[08:36:05]

justinh:

in the majority of places it is though :)

[08:36:12]

justinh:

up to 10x

[08:36:37]

Dibblah:

Hmmm. It supports in-stream firmware updates.

[08:36:52]

Dibblah:

I'm betting that it's not in the UK carousel, though.

[08:37:12]

justinh:

you need a dvb-t modulator :P

[08:37:35]

justinh:

or send it back to flea buyer saying it's not fit for purpose. It'd be true

[08:38:45]

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[08:38:54]

jduggan_:

ah its 2011 in my region

[08:39:01]

jduggan_:

claims 10x power increase

[08:39:06]

jduggan_:

200,000 w

[08:39:28]

Dibblah:

Just think.

[08:39:38]

Dibblah:

All of that power is sleeting through your brain.

[08:39:57]

jduggan_:

mmmmmm

[08:40:04]

Dibblah:

Well, if you put the transmitting tower in the middle of your brain, that is.

[08:40:07]

justinh:

200kW is nothing

[08:40:19]

jduggan_:

isnt analogue like way more

[08:40:25]

justinh:

Sutton Coldfield puts out 1MW per channel

[08:40:32]

justinh:

thats M not m

[08:40:43]

justinh:

Pontop Pike 500kW per channel

[08:40:45]

Dibblah:

Digital == Analogue.

[08:41:03]

Dibblah:

Just the data encoding is different.

[08:41:14]

justinh:

and digital power levels were 10kw where analogue was 500kw

[08:41:29]

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[08:46:16]

justinh:

it's all witchcraftery, this digickle stuff

[08:47:11]

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[09:03:02]

oobe:

i have a dvd that says to view scenes from different angles use the menu key to change angles is this possible with mythtv?

[09:03:45]

justinh:

you normally use the angle key to change angles

[09:04:47]

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[09:05:59]

justinh:

never saw the point of multi-angle junk

[09:06:09]

oobe:

its pron

[09:06:39]

justinh:

ooo high production values

[09:06:40]

oobe:

i didnt know there was an angle key?

[09:06:55]

oobe:

does it have a default key or do you need a binding

[09:06:57]

justinh:

I dunno if mythtv has an angle keybinding

[09:08:07]

oobe:

oh ok

[09:08:16]

oobe:

i know mplayer supports it anyway

[09:08:25]

oobe:

havent tried it yet though

[09:09:35]

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[09:09:47]

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[09:10:44]

justinh:

doesn't look like mythtv has it

[09:11:05]

justinh:

though maybe it's in the OSD menu & doesn't have a keybinding

[09:11:20]

PhoenixUT:

Captain_Murdoch: After changing the prepareLock to be local, I am unable to cause the deadlock any longer, things are running fine so far. I'll leave the patch in and see how things go in basic use

[09:16:39]

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[09:17:43]

Captain_Murdoch:

great. that was one of our proposed short-term solutions if I remember correctly.

[09:19:39]

hads:

Anyone use mythvideo list view with a four deep directory structure? e.g. SG_ROOT/TV/SERIES/SEASON/EPISODE.*

[09:20:56]

justinh:

AFAIK you can't

[09:21:05]

hads:

Sure you can

[09:21:10]

hads:

I have for years.

[09:21:28]

hads:

Just seeing odd behaviour with 0.22 with respect to button presses.

[09:21:35]

justinh:

you can't *see* it as four deep :)

[09:21:44]

hads:

Oh yeah sure :)

[09:22:11]

hads:

When you get to have focus on SEASON in the above example you have to hit right twice to move to EPISIDE.*

[09:22:19]

hads:

This is a new thing with 0.22

[09:23:19]

justinh:

0.22RC1

[09:23:24]

justinh:

not 0.22

[09:23:48]

hads:

I was waiting for that.

[09:24:17]

justinh:

so I'm a pedant. Sue me

[09:30:28]

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[09:31:53]

justinh:

just trying to stop people being misinformed. Too many people think 0.22 is already out

[09:34:28]

justinh:

yawn. Top Gear to be made in 'HD'

[09:37:31]

Dibblah:

Yay! Wrinklevision.

[09:38:18]

justinh:

more accurately, badly encoded 9Mbit/sec 1440x1080i definition :D

[09:38:50]

Dibblah:

Depends.

[09:39:09]

justinh:

wasn't impressed much with the last series. I think they should bring back the obviously faked challenges & stunts

[09:39:11]

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[09:39:47]

Dibblah:

If you're watching on cable, you get badly encoded 9Mbit/sec 1440x1080i definition h264 transcoded to mpeg2 "as low as we think we can go" 1080i.

[09:40:07]

justinh:

yeah? glad I don't have 'HD' on cable then

[09:41:02]

justinh:

it should all be about the bloody narrative anyway

[09:41:13]

justinh:

less trying to distract us with parlour trickery

[09:41:59]

justinh:

I for one couldn't care less if I ever get HDTV if television continues to fail to be sufficiently engaging :)

[09:42:04]

justinh:

call me old fashioned

[09:43:09]

justinh:

it's like people saying films are better now cos they're in colour. Wrong answer

[09:46:48]

Dibblah:

HD does have advantages.

[09:47:00]

Dibblah:

Or it will do when it's 100% deployed.

[09:47:05]

justinh:

looks better on bigger screens, yada yada

[09:47:20]

Dibblah:

Meh. To me, SD is acceptable.

[09:47:27]

Dibblah:

And that's on 82"

[09:47:32]

justinh:

lol

[09:47:52]

Dibblah:

Without advanced deinterlacing / scaling.

[09:48:19]

justinh:

saw freeview on the inlaws 32" sony lcd last weekend – used to be ok but since the retune it's ghastly

[09:49:03]

justinh:

checked & the set wasn't in burn your eyes out mode

[09:49:27]

justinh:

then discovered their Sony PVR was re-encoding recordings to save space. Bleugh

[09:51:34]

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[09:58:32]

justinh:

anyway. Dr Who will still be shite for the next couple of episodes, HD or not :)

[10:02:10]

jduggan_:

i never got into dr who

[10:02:18]

jduggan_:

or torchwood

[10:02:22]

jduggan_:

not my cuppa

[10:02:40]

Dibblah:

Tudors?

[10:03:02]

justinh:

filth for the sake of it?

[10:03:06]

Dibblah:

Medieval pron. Yay.

[10:03:53]

justinh:

hmm I wonder if there's already an e-petition to stop the BBC wasting money on HD

[10:04:36]

Dibblah:

BBC != government.

[10:05:14]

justinh:

ofcom == government. having only one mux for HD is a massive waste of time

[10:05:30]

justinh:

if we're not gonna get proper HD there's no point bothering with it

[10:08:44]

justinh:

freeview 'hd' is meant to 'launch' in my region in little over 1 months time. no mention of hardware yet. not any hope of using it on a PC

[10:09:37]

justinh:

and to make way for a service the majority of people won't be able to use they're gonna reduce the quality of SDTV services.. and yet there's literally nothing anybody can do about it

[10:15:12]

justinh:

heh. just read windows 7 MCE can have up to FOUR tuners

[10:15:21]

sid3windr:

wooo

[10:18:10]

justinh:

and it's still stuck with that bloody horrible cross menu deal

[10:21:05]

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[10:21:14]

Dibblah:

Hmm. For some reason I thought that trunk supported storage groups for preview images?

[10:21:56]

justinh:

ruh? thought they were always streamed as recordings always have been

[10:24:07]

Dibblah:

Yes, but I would really like them in a different dir to the recordings.

[10:24:10]

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[10:24:16]

Dibblah:

Recordings are on spun-down storage.

[10:24:17]

justinh:

bloody hell. and people say mythtv is hard to configure: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/tun . . . ers-vmc.html

[10:24:22]

justinh:

ah

[10:24:36]

justinh:

think mythtv-setup has the preview images SG setup option

[10:24:40]

Dibblah:

Righty ho. Time to go code mining :)

[10:24:43]

Dibblah:

Nope.

[10:24:48]

Dibblah:

There's screenshots.,,,

[10:24:55]

Dibblah:

But it doesn't appear to do it.

[10:25:09]

justinh:

nah screenshots aren't the same thing

[10:26:19]

sid3windr:

ahh

[10:26:22]

sid3windr:

the old mce tuner extender fix utility

[10:32:54]

Dibblah:

Hmm. Nope. outFileName : (pathname + ".png");

[10:34:02]

justinh:

jeebus. the UK govt plans for tagging & monitoring us are nothing compared to INDECT apparently

[10:34:33]

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[10:49:32]

pak0:

i`m trying to repair that dvb-usb: error while querying for an remote control event.

[10:49:43]

pak0:

but with the info find it on google i cant

[10:50:11]

pak0:

the people speak about to update the firmaware of my dvb, but its out of date

[10:51:33]

justinh:

if everything works I wouldn't see it as problem

[10:52:21]

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[10:53:56]

pak0:

everything works, but that error is a little ...

[11:02:09]

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[11:45:34]

Dibblah:

Another person submitting theme stuff pre-you-know-what.

[11:46:05]

justinh:

hmm?

[11:46:09]

Dibblah:

It's almost like people are getting creative now that there's documentation and stuff :)

[11:46:13]

Dibblah:

trac

[11:46:28]

Dibblah:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/7378#comment:1

[11:47:39]

resno_:

has ubuntu given way to windows and mac conventions? or is it a more polished package?

[11:48:03]

justinh:

all linux stuff seems to ape windows or mac stuff

[11:48:50]

resno_:

justinh: i am installing ubunutu 9.10 and ive seen macish things, and now while installing they take the time to "brag" about the product, instead of the usual installer thing

[11:49:14]

justinh:

yeah I've seen that

[11:49:18]

resno_:

well actually, it tells about the software you can run, so its a bit more informative then windows

[11:49:18]

justinh:

didn't pay it any attention

[11:49:53]

resno_:

oh ok

[11:49:57]

justinh:

ffs why must KDE take so long to load apps?

[11:51:12]

justinh:

Dibblah: re the new theme.. no comment. not even a yay somebody tried

[11:51:42]

justinh:

skinz here we come!

[11:51:44]

Dibblah:

Don't understand your meaning.

[11:52:07]

justinh:

I've had a look at it. No accounting for taste

[11:52:09]

Dibblah:

From a race-to-the-bottom point of view?

[11:53:05]

justinh:

choice is good, some say

[11:53:19]

Dibblah:

Well, I'm now running trunk. Yay!

[11:53:44]

justinh:

brave of newcomers to submit stuff to trac though

[11:55:05]

Dibblah:

Of course, now may not be a _great_ time to do OSD themes ;)

[11:55:28]

justinh:

GAH. Stupid people submitting stuff to the unofficial plugins area of the wiki that aren't plugins

[11:59:25]

mgisbers_away is now known as mgisbers

[12:01:24]

justinh:

wow. the amount of actual unofficial plugins is crazy

[12:03:57]

justinh:

all that wasted effort :-\

[12:16:43]

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[12:17:00]

zzip66:

hello

[12:17:45]

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[13:09:04]

justinh:

heh. looking busy has been fun & productive today http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=550860

[13:10:15]

Spirits-Sight:

anyone here know how to setup mythzmserver with zoneminder 1.24 (think latest)

[13:10:49]

justinh:

what do the docs say?

[13:11:54]

Spirits-Sight:

it talks about 1.22 & 1.23 I used the repro to install both of these program

[13:12:22]

justinh:

repro?

[13:14:41]

Spirits-Sight:

synaptic

[13:14:48]

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[13:17:11]

justinh:

anyway looking at the docs it's as easy as changing a number to 1.24

[13:19:41]

Spirits-Sight:

that would mean I would have to compile it then, right?

[13:22:39]

justinh:

depends which version the plugin has been compiled for

[13:22:52]

justinh:

pretty logical assumption to make!

[13:23:16]

Spirits-Sight:

not when you don't understand alot of this

[13:23:20]

justinh:

assuming it's even supposed to work with 1.24

[13:23:48]

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[13:25:07]

justinh:

and the instructions in the wiki don't look hard – just filter out the bits about compiling it yourself, surely...

[13:27:39]

Spirits-Sight:

thanks

[13:27:42]

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[13:31:39]

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[13:41:12]

justinh:

ooo I didn't know PCI to mini pci adapters existed

[13:41:14]

sid3windr:

heh

[13:41:18]

** sid3windr did **

[13:41:25]

sid3windr:

but didn't help me with what I wanted to do

[13:41:53]

justinh:

just stumbled on a seller of those natty little hd decoder boards

[13:41:54]

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[13:42:00]

justinh:

£20 in the UK delivered

[13:44:01]

sid3windr:

:)

[13:44:05]

sid3windr:

but was there any linux support?

[13:44:29]

justinh:

not yet

[13:45:00]

justinh:

erm.. maybe in xbmc.. wtf!

[13:45:17]

sid3windr:

:)

[13:46:12]

justinh:

http://xbmc.org/trac/browser/branches/xdmx/XB . . . pp?rev=22914

[13:47:19]

mag0o:

heh, the directv rep is telling me that their dvr has features nobody else has, like sports search or setting up recordings via the web or your cell phone...heh

[13:47:40]

sid3windr:

lol

[13:48:04]

justinh:

he's right

[13:48:10]

justinh:

no other commercial DVR

[13:48:31]

mag0o:

but, she faild to specify *commercial* dvr ;)

[13:49:13]

justinh:

prolly doesn't even know OSS things exist ;-)

[13:50:45]

mag0o:

she brushed off me saying that my current dvr already has that functionality so i won't need theirs

[13:51:08]

justinh:

sales people lie? OMG!

[13:51:28]

mag0o:

hehe

[13:51:45]

mag0o:

i couldn't sell a jacket to an eskimo

[13:52:19]

justinh:

I used to do ok

[13:52:41]

justinh:

people would ring me up to make a booking for my mobile disco, say guy X quoted less than me & I said "okay, go get em"

[13:53:42]

justinh:

more often than not I'd get a call when I was sitting down to eat on a Saturday evening.. "HELP! The DJ guy didn't turn up"

[13:53:58]

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[13:54:46]

mag0o:

heh

[13:57:21]

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[14:03:43]

quicksilver:

lies! DJs can't afford to eat.

[14:07:07]

clever:

http://hackaday.com/2009/10/18/samsung-tv-firmware-hacking/

[14:07:12]

clever:

whoa, tv that runs linux!

[14:07:13]

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[14:07:28]

sid3windr:

quicksilver: that's the ARTISTS !

[14:07:34]

sid3windr:

they can't because .. you wouldn't download a car!

[14:07:36]

clever:

and the 2nd comment is exactly what i was thinking, can it run mythtv:P

[14:08:35]

sid3windr:

hehe

[14:08:37]

sid3windr:

that would be neat

[14:09:42]

clever:

yeah, having the frontend fully contained inside the tv

[14:09:49]

clever:

no seperate frontend box to feed it

[14:10:21]

justinh:

yawn

[14:10:32]

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[14:10:45]

justinh:

problem being the TV has 32MB RAM or something

[14:12:06]

clever:

could probly hack up something where the video is played localy and everything else is relayed thru X11 forwarding

[14:12:31]

sid3windr:

hehe

[14:12:32]

sid3windr:

and no vdpau

[14:13:09]

clever:

it may have its own decoding hardware, you just have to figure out what the hell it is and use it

[14:13:25]

justinh:

and maybe write a driver for it

[14:13:36]

justinh:

all in an afternoon's work eh

[14:14:13]

clever:

if thats an hdtv, then it may already have proper support to run a raw mpeg ts stream

[14:14:22]

justinh:

mpeg2

[14:14:29]

justinh:

no doubt

[14:14:36]

clever:

just have to convince it to play a stream from software, and not from the coax/tuner

[14:14:49]

clever:

and i saw comments of it playing youtube, so it can atleast play some video from software

[14:15:08]

justinh:

like low res youtube clips take a lot of yoik

[14:15:19]

sid3windr:

=)

[14:15:26]

justinh:

and it works with DLNA too

[14:15:36]

justinh:

but that might involve a transcoding server

[14:16:22]

clever:

that brings up a new idea

[14:16:44]

clever:

give it a lirc proxy, so it can relay its buttons to a real frontend(other floor)

[14:16:55]

clever:

and a special xorg output module, to spew via dlna

[14:17:07]

clever:

and then you have it working:P

[14:18:05]

justinh:

dream on

[14:18:08]

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[14:21:51]

** mag0o wonders if the dishnetwork co-browse will work on linux **

[14:22:19]

GreyFoxx:

co-browse ? What's that ?

[14:24:51]

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[14:25:11]

mag0o:

heh, its a fancy-schmancy java applet that allows them to see your screen.

[14:25:28]

mag0o:

it actually worked, being java and all. i tried it more out of curiosity than anything.

[14:25:49]

justinh:

wha?

[14:26:00]

justinh:

the STB have a LAN port or something?

[14:26:08]

mag0o:

no, my laptop

[14:26:28]

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[14:26:38]

mag0o:

i was scoping out dtv and dn packages and the dn csr wanted to help me

[14:26:52]

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[14:26:53]

justinh:

heh. my ISP gets to see what's on my screen over my dead body

[14:27:12]

sid3windr:

:)

[14:27:21]

timr_:

could anybody tell me if I can use mythtv to stream live tv to my IP set top box or not?

[14:27:31]

justinh:

timr_: no you cannot

[14:27:51]

mag0o:

i was more curious than anything to see if it worked ;)

[14:27:58]

justinh:

mythtv is a PVR/DVR application, not an IPTV serving program

[14:28:01]

mag0o:

that's often how cats get killed though

[14:28:37]

timr_:

so justinh what do you suggest then for my Idea?

[14:29:25]

justinh:

timr_: $another_program

[14:29:33]

timr_:

like what?

[14:29:42]

justinh:

how the hell should I know?

[14:29:59]

timr_:

well you dont have to get crappy I was just asking

[14:30:07]

justinh:

VLC maybe

[14:30:12]

justinh:

do your own research

[14:30:28]

timr_:

I have been and I came to a dead end

[14:31:19]

timr_:

ok a other question

[14:31:32]

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[14:31:41]

timr_:

if I record a tv show can I stream it to my IP set top box then?

[14:34:05]

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[14:37:33]

wagnerrp:

tim_: if your IP STB supports UPNP

[14:37:50]

wagnerrp:

timr_: ^^^^

[14:38:07]

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[14:38:33]

wagnerrp:

further, mythtv does not automatically transcode things to work, so the recording must be in a format the STB can play

[14:38:34]

iamlindoro:

I'm going to set fire to the next person who sets "Milestone: 0.22" on a ticket

[14:39:06]

** devinheitmueller runs to trac! **

[14:39:31]

** iamlindoro runs for his Zippo **

[14:39:42]

** sid3windr runs for his life **

[14:39:54]

** devinheitmueller runs for his fire-retardant clothes **

[14:40:00]

timr_:

well i am using aminet 110 set top box

[14:41:03]

wagnerrp:

thats a terrible company

[14:41:43]

wagnerrp:

namely, because their site is broken

[14:45:47]

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[14:50:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

timr_: found this quote on a page that sells that AmiNET 110 MPEG-2 decoder: "***We only support the sale and use of Amino products when they are used with our AVN series encoders. Do not ask for support if you are not using an AVN encoder.*** " http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/avcat/CTL1642/ . . . rodid=378851

[14:51:37]

wagnerrp:

timr_, J-e-f-f-A: if you are recording a digital broadcast directly, it may be possible you are in fact using a AVN encoder

[14:51:40]

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[14:52:24]

wagnerrp:

otherwise, the box probable looks for some identifier string in the stream, and refuses to work otherwise

[14:53:10]

timr_:

hmm that is weird bc that set top box works with VLC stream but I dont understand why it wount work with mythtv

[14:53:31]

wagnerrp:

myth can only stream using UPNP, and myth's own internal protocol

[14:53:55]

wagnerrp:

it makes perfect sense that it does not work with your STB, since it does not know how to stream in all the ways VLC can

[14:54:13]

timr_:

well if mythtv can stream to slingbox why wouldnt do it to that set top box

[14:54:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

timr_: Because that slingbox supports UPnP???

[14:54:36]

wagnerrp:

does your STB support UPNP?

[14:54:40]

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[14:54:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

^ nope

[14:54:48]

wagnerrp:

then youre SOL

[14:54:59]

timr_:

I havent even got the top set box setup yet

[14:55:11]

wagnerrp:

then how do you know VLC will stream to it?

[14:55:32]

timr_:

bc its documented on there site about it

[14:55:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

"Multicast IPTV (IGMP control) and Video on Demand (RTSP control) – no mention of UPnP in the specs.

[14:56:07]

wagnerrp:

ok, so you have to use VLC's RTSP streaming capacity to do it

[14:56:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

MPEG 1 and 2 up to 10Mbps, output at 640x438 (ntsc) or 640x512 (pal)

[14:56:26]

wagnerrp:

mythtv cannot transmit using RTSP, it can only receive

[14:56:38]

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[14:56:41]

timr_:

then mythtv is worthless then

[14:56:50]

wagnerrp:

to you and your STB, yes

[14:56:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

timr_: Yeah, right...

[14:57:05]

timr_:

the program is worthless

[14:57:13]

** mag0o spots the troll **

[14:57:30]

timr_:

im not a troll

[14:57:36]

timr_:

I am asking real questions here

[14:57:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

timr_: more like that STB is worthless. ^^ and that is very troll-like behavior.

[14:57:50]

timr_:

no its not

[14:58:03]

timr_:

its asking real questions and getting very crappy answers

[14:58:09]

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[14:58:10]

wagnerrp:

youre claiming a program is worthless, because it does not support streaming to some obscure STB, thats a troll

[14:58:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

timr_: You are getting REAL and TRUE answers about MythTV, and what it can and cannot do, then call it worthless?

[14:58:47]

wagnerrp:

hes gone

[14:58:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

Hallelujah!

[14:59:39]

** mag0o thinks the mediacom reps put me on hold to 'check' my service tickets while they actually just go take a smoke break **

[15:00:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

"crappy answers" Yeah, right. Jeeze, we weren't saying "It won't work, dumba$$" – we were giving specific, tecnical answers as to why...

[15:00:52]

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[15:01:50]

** wagnerrp plans a trip to wapakoneta... someone needs some dog poop on their stoop **

[15:02:12]

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[15:02:15]

wagnerrp:

its not that far, only about two hours

[15:02:17]

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[15:03:19]

resno:

i installed the infamous .22 this morning

[15:03:42]

Hiisty:

is it any good?

[15:04:00]

resno:

Hiisty: id say its great!

[15:04:06]

GreyFoxx:

.22 kills kitens :(

[15:04:09]

GreyFoxx:

kittens

[15:04:25]

resno:

however, i tried to switch to opengl, and my video didnt like it... its lagged so badly

[15:04:35]

wagnerrp:

GreyFoxx: what, did resno masturbate to it or something?

[15:04:44]

resno:

my fault for having old equipment

[15:04:58]

wagnerrp:

opengl painter? or video renderer?

[15:05:15]

resno:

opengl painter

[15:05:29]

wagnerrp:

has nothing to do with video playback (besides the OSD popup)

[15:05:34]

resno:

the animations looked sweet, just in super slow motion

[15:05:38]

GreyFoxx:

Under TV Playback in your video profile or under General->apppearance ?

[15:05:48]

wagnerrp:

chances are you dont have your card set up properly

[15:05:52]

GreyFoxx:

the painter shouldn't affect playback

[15:05:58]

wagnerrp:

for some reason, opengl acceleration isnt working

[15:06:03]

wagnerrp:

so youve reverted to MESA

[15:06:08]

resno:

i didnt say it affected playback..

[15:06:17]

wagnerrp:

yes you did

[15:06:23]

GreyFoxx:

when you say the video lagged people will assume playback

[15:06:26]

wagnerrp:

'my video didnt like it... its lagged so badly'

[15:06:29]

resno:

ah, i meant video card

[15:06:32]

resno:

sorry

[15:06:33]

wagnerrp:

video means video playback, not video card

[15:06:35]

GreyFoxx:

ahhh

[15:06:49]

wagnerrp:

aforementioned suggestions still apply

[15:07:15]

resno:

i havent been here long enough to remember that video and video card have differences here

[15:07:51]

wagnerrp:

one is a big chunk of silicon and substrate, the other is a bunch of ones and zeroes

[15:07:53]

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[15:08:19]

resno:

yep, quite a large difference between the two

[15:10:52]

resno:

I have not messed it with much, however what I *saw* looked like nice improvements.

[15:10:57]

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[15:12:37]

wagnerrp:

well a good deal of the improvements are things you wont 'see'

[15:12:43]

oobe:

iamlindoro, that was a very fast response to my ticket

[15:12:52]

resno:

wagnerrp: true.

[15:13:36]

resno:

i still need to config everything. so i could only judge by the theme, which is a lame way to judge, i know.

[15:13:46]

resno:

its a shame a project is judged by its skin.

[15:13:51]

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[15:14:22]

iamlindoro:

oobe, I try to respond to all my tickets quickly

[15:15:00]

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[15:15:48]

iamlindoro:

oobe, I know it's not the answer you hoped for, but something like this: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/attachment/ticket/7379/mv4.jpg is just acceptable for application, especially to a default theme screen

[15:16:42]

resno:

wagnerrp: are you myth dev?

[15:16:45]

oobe:

ok no prob

[15:17:01]

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[15:17:18]

oobe:

thanks for you input

[15:17:31]

oobe:

and i see as default it wont work

[15:17:34]

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[15:17:41]

wagnerrp:

resno: no

[15:18:17]

oobe:

i dropped them in blootube and blue folders though looks nice but your right about alignment

[15:18:21]

oobe:

i was just guessing

[15:18:53]

oobe:

should i make banner equal to "title"

[15:19:07]

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[15:21:09]

iamlindoro:

oobe, It's unlikely I would apply any addition of "bling" to default or default-wide

[15:21:33]

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[15:21:37]

iamlindoro:

If anything I want them to be as bland as possible to a) work on meagre hardware and b) encourage people to write original works

[15:21:41]

iamlindoro:

okay, off to work now for real

[15:22:30]

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[15:23:15]

oobe:

yea i understand that

[15:23:26]

oobe:

have a good day

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gbee!n=gbee@cpc1-derb9-0-0-cust513.leic.cable.ntl.com changes topic to .:. Welcome to the official user-to-user support channel. .:. http://mythtv.org/ .:. Latest stable release: 0.21 .:. Channel FAQ at http://mythtv.org/wiki/IRC .:. MythTV Wiki http://mythtv.org/wiki/ .:. Use http://mythtv.pastebin.ca/ .:. US/Canada Listings: http://schedulesdirect.org/ .:.

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[15:45:10]

wingrunr21:

can anyone help me troubleshoot a recording issue?

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wagnerrp:

not if you dont explain your issue

[15:48:39]

gbee:

oobe: maybe you want to make the changes for mythcenter or whichever theme you are using?

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[16:02:59]

oobe:

gbee, yeah any theme that doesnt have a video-ui.xml file you can just drop those in

[16:04:08]

oobe:

its not important if its not in the source im always modding things anyway and what i like this week i change my mind next week

[16:04:53]

oobe:

gbee, oh you mean submit it as a fix for e.g mythcenter

[16:05:08]

oobe:

i nearly was going to do that

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[16:08:41]

iamlindoro:

Though in that case, and some might disagree with me, if you want to modify a legacy theme, that means writing an original video-ui.xml that is consistent with the rest of the theme, and which overcomes some of the layout/design shortcomings of what you submitted a little while ago

[16:09:50]

iamlindoro:

so, to put it more succinctly, it needs to be a) consistent with the rest of the theme being modified, b) extremely clean codewise and layoutwise, and c) not just a copy of default with some other stuff tacked on

[16:09:56]

oobe:

yea thats what i thought

[16:10:30]

oobe:

but for me personally at home it works well

[16:10:51]

oobe:

are you at work?

[16:10:51]

iamlindoro:

yep

[16:11:02]

oobe:

no alt nick either

[16:11:08]

iamlindoro:

nope, proxy

[16:11:33]

oobe:

hmm dont know how you do that

[16:11:46]

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[16:12:05]

oobe:

that must be why your always on here

[16:12:09]

oobe:

what do you do at work?

[16:12:26]

oobe:

or sposed to do *coughs*

[16:12:57]

iamlindoro:

Network engineer/IT manager

[16:13:19]

iamlindoro:

Anyway oobe, I want you to stay encouraged about theming, it's just that to get a patch committed to myth themes there's going to be a naturally higher bar than even submitting an original work

[16:13:41]

oobe:

ok

[16:13:46]

jduggan_:

irssi in screen

[16:13:47]

jduggan_:

:P

[16:13:54]

oobe:

i really dont take offence either

[16:14:00]

iamlindoro:

Some basic things to keep in mind layout/designwise are that you shouldn't allow widget areas to run over into one another, and if you do, it should have a distinct design reason for doing so

[16:14:03]

mag0o:

amen jduggan_

[16:14:09]

oobe:

you put it in a well constructed thoughtful way

[16:14:32]

iamlindoro:

I didn't want you do get the wrong/discouraging idea

[16:14:44]

oobe:

no i got it

[16:14:49]

mag0o:

oobe: and you can 'see' your widget area by using a shape drawn behind the widget

[16:15:02]

mag0o:

thats my one piece of themeing advice

[16:15:17]

oobe:

ok

[16:15:25]

iamlindoro:

mag0o: What a genius idea, however did you come up with that? ;)

[16:15:39]

oobe:

i really doubt i will ever make a theme from scratch

[16:15:43]

mag0o:

someone much smarter than i once suggested it, and i have held on to that thought forever

[16:15:59]

iamlindoro:

It's significantly more fun to write your own than to hack on someone else's

[16:16:04]

mag0o:

yes

[16:16:07]

oobe:

but when i use any theme i like modding them now i only recently started doing so to so im new to it all

[16:16:16]

jduggan_:

if you enjoy that sort of thing =]

[16:16:55]

mag0o:

i enjoy themeing and ensuring the wiki on themeing has proper documentation ;)

[16:17:09]

oobe:

iamlindoro, i believe you maybe i will one day

[16:17:18]

** iamlindoro sets mag0o on fire **

[16:17:25]

jduggan_:

i dont have an artistic bone in my body

[16:17:25]

oobe:

got a lot to learn first

[16:17:49]

jduggan_:

;o

[16:17:55]

** mag0o looks for those retarded clothes someone mentioned earlier **

[16:18:10]

iamlindoro:

oobe: To be perfectly honest you can only really learn what you need to know by throwing yourself into it-- and as mag0o says, the docs are quite good ;)

[16:18:31]

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[16:18:35]

mag0o:

yup

[16:18:49]

oobe:

you wrote them iamlindoro ?

[16:18:50]

mag0o:

but, iamlindoro is a better resource

[16:18:52]

** mag0o hides **

[16:19:15]

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[16:19:30]

oobe:

i guess you did mag0o sorry

[16:20:02]

mag0o:

nope, iamlindoro did – i just 'chec' them

[16:20:04]

mag0o:

'check'*

[16:20:20]

wagnerrp:

can text be rotated arbitrarily in themes?

[16:21:14]

mag0o:

not yet, though i've been told it's on the plate

[16:22:23]

iamlindoro:

oobe: Yes, I wrote them

[16:22:39]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp: yeah, as mag0o says, it's coming

[16:24:00]

wagnerrp:

(thinking of some menu based off a rotating knob in the bottom left)

[16:25:13]

PeaceKeeper:

Does atrpms have .22RC1 or .22-Fixes ? (Sorry I cant look from work)

[16:25:42]

wagnerrp:

cant look from work? they have the site blocked?

[16:26:13]

PeaceKeeper:

Ok cant look from where I am at at work

[16:26:36]

PeaceKeeper:

;p

[16:27:12]

PeaceKeeper:

Once I am back at my desk then I can switch off wireless and look

[16:28:27]

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[16:28:38]

iamlindoro:

Holy cow, someone loved "Blue" enough to write a totally broken wiki page devoted to it

[16:28:55]

iamlindoro:

and just in time for none of those screens to exist any more

[16:29:22]

wagnerrp:

i cant seem to find it in the revision log... among gbee's mass cleansing... :P

[16:29:41]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Blue_Theme

[16:29:50]

wagnerrp:

yeah, just increased the count

[16:30:52]

sid3windr:

heh

[16:30:53]

wagnerrp:

wait... why does he have a menu structure?

[16:31:02]

wagnerrp:

the menu is independent of the theme

[16:31:20]

iamlindoro:

A better question is why is he showcasing "HD" versions os a 4:3 theme

[16:31:23]

iamlindoro:

of a

[16:31:45]

iamlindoro:

He appears to be in the Seattle area, I blame kormoc_away

[16:32:31]

wagnerrp:

he liked someone elses theme so much, he had to sign his name at the bottom

[16:33:17]

justinh:

well, blue is a fine example of the kind of things GIMP is good for

[16:33:20]

gbee:

oops?

[16:34:06]

** mag0o has been using GIMP for his theme **

[16:34:07]

sid3windr:

lol

[16:34:38]

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[16:34:40]

justinh:

without the 'make it suck' plugin I hope :)

[16:35:12]

justinh:

all that stuff where it tries too hard to be like photoshop just has a trademark 'look' about it

[16:35:40]

mag0o:

http://notes.lynchmv.com/childish.png background isn't mine, buttons are

[16:35:44]

justinh:

like '3d bevels' – nobody should have even bothered

[16:36:09]

justinh:

oo they don't look at all GIMP ish

[16:36:11]

sid3windr:

your text is too low :>

[16:36:20]

wagnerrp:

too low?

[16:36:33]

sid3windr:

positioned too low to the bottom of the buttons

[16:36:34]

sid3windr:

if you will

[16:36:44]

wagnerrp:

its not supposed to be centered

[16:36:45]

sid3windr:

s/low/close/

[16:36:50]

mag0o:

that's why im still working on it :)

[16:36:56]

gbee:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/File:Image020.jpg << 'HD' CRT ... with a 4:3 aspect?

[16:36:57]

justinh:

text is a bit on the small side for a kid's theme IMHO, but you can set fire to that comment if you want :)

[16:36:57]

sid3windr:

except for "watch videos"

[16:36:58]

sid3windr:

hehe

[16:37:10]

sid3windr:

wagnerrp: why not?

[16:37:47]

wagnerrp:

no reason, just making useless argument

[16:37:54]

justinh:

gbee: yeah, nobody wants to waste screen space watching their 'fullscreen' DVDs man

[16:38:00]

sid3windr:

:)

[16:38:38]

mag0o:

when it gets to a good point, i'm going to let my 7yo loose on it and see what she thinks

[16:39:12]

wagnerrp:

gbee: that little yellow plug on the front tell you it was HD?

[16:39:17]

justinh:

I always found it really strange how the USA home entertainment industry didn't try to push 16:9 earlier. Instead, they cruelly cropped films for DVD

[16:39:33]

gbee:

wagnerrp: the file comment did :)

[16:39:42]

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[16:39:57]

justinh:

well technically 720 horizontal lines is 'HD'

[16:40:18]

justinh:

I always found it hilarious when people called my junk 'HD'

[16:40:37]

justinh:

when what they really meant was *widescreen*

[16:41:15]

gbee:

yeah, it's puzzling how widescreen didn't really make it to the US until HD (just 15 years behind the rest of the world)

[16:41:34]

justinh:

wonder who's gonna do the 1st ever 'TRU HD' theme for mythtv. Y'know, with 8 pixel high text as a maximum

[16:42:13]

iamlindoro:

Hey, you leave the US alone! (sips his Crystal Pepsi and pumps up his Reebok Pumps, while ogling a picture of Jenny McCarthy and watching an episode of Max Headroom)

[16:42:33]

wagnerrp:

gbee: im going to claim thats a Trinitron, and not an XBR Vega

[16:42:39]

justinh:

because you *can* fit 200 lines of text on a 1080 screen :D

[16:42:43]

wagnerrp:

Sony's HD CRTs were all widescreen

[16:43:01]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: any character who gets his name off the text from a barrier is fine by me. ;-)

[16:43:24]

justinh:

Max Headroom was the dogs'

[16:43:29]

** iamlindoro offers devinheitmueller a Bart Simpson T-Shirt **

[16:43:41]

devinheitmueller:

Eat my shorts!

[16:43:41]

justinh:

when was the last time Matt Frewer was in anything anyway?

[16:44:03]

** justinh does the bartman **

[16:44:06]

GreyFoxx:

justn: Eureka like a month ago :)

[16:44:10]

devinheitmueller:

I'm a child of the eighties. So sue me.

[16:44:14]

justinh:

ahem. and avoids getting locked up fer it

[16:44:49]

justinh:

damn, I forgot that show existed. Since cancelling Sly I can't get it anymore

[16:45:18]

justinh:

or rather, the 'family pack' – 200 channels I don't want for another £25 a month

[16:45:53]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Heh, so speaking of "TRU HD", Arclight is 1920x1080

[16:46:01]

justinh:

yeah I gathered

[16:46:11]

iamlindoro:

Well worth it just for the extra layout space

[16:46:12]

justinh:

is there really that much difference?

[16:46:36]

wagnerrp:

no, i was wrong... seems they did come in 4:3, 16:9, and 16:10

[16:46:38]

iamlindoro:

I dunno, it just "feels" a lot better-- even the edit metadata screen never felt that cramped (for once)

[16:47:10]

justinh:

it'd still work at 720 though right

[16:47:39]

justinh:

or will it be another victim of rounding problems messing up the positioning?

[16:47:42]

iamlindoro:

yeah, in fact it's being tested at 720

[16:47:50]

wagnerrp:

looks like that TV runs at 853x1080i

[16:47:57]

wagnerrp:

funky resultion

[16:47:58]

iamlindoro:

(but also at 1080 intermittently)

[16:48:00]

justinh:

heh

[16:48:04]

justinh:

make a modeline for that

[16:48:22]

iamlindoro:

I also have my one "pre-pre-pre-alpha" tested using a cropped mode, and it's working on all

[16:48:27]

iamlindoro:

tester

[16:48:29]

justinh:

heh cool

[16:48:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: If that's a CRT set, that would probably make sense...

[16:48:59]

justinh:

I'm running out of other stuff to do so I'll be back on the wagon soon

[16:49:00]

wagnerrp:

yeah, CRT

[16:49:16]

wagnerrp:

commenting on some image gbee found, with a 4:3 HDTV

[16:49:19]

justinh:

so it'll be hello rotating stuff

[16:49:23]

wagnerrp:

apparently they actually do exist

[16:49:24]

iamlindoro:

justinh: Still need you to get that Effex patch finished up :)

[16:49:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: They didn't make the TV CRTs capable of anywhere near the Computer monitor resolutions... (grid was too coarse)

[16:49:31]

justinh:

yeah yeah

[16:49:37]

justinh:

I want to finish it too

[16:49:54]

justinh:

loads of things I wanna do before the UI code gets ruined with scripting :P

[16:50:01]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: sony's top end ones ran at 1440x1080i

[16:51:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: I have a 37" Mitsubishi monitor that's capable of 1024x768 input, but is blurry at that resolution... 800x600 is fairly sharp, but still a little blurry.

[16:51:17]

justinh:

concept-wide.js anybody?

[16:51:41]

wagnerrp:

thats the actual tube resolution, not just what inputs it claims to accept

[16:52:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: nice. ;-) So they used a data-grade CRT for that one. ;-)

[16:52:07]

justinh:

I remember maintaining a test line for 3DLabs VGA cards – we had some boss Iiyama monitors for them. 23", ludicrous resolution

[16:52:37]

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[16:55:21]

wagnerrp:

looks like basic QXGA

[16:55:55]

wagnerrp:

ive never seen a VGA DAC that drives more than that resolution

[16:56:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: I was suprised how good the Mitsubishi Megaview 37" looked with Standard-Def S-Video scaled through an Viewsonic N3 processor to scale it to non-interlaced 852x480 (? – a mac resolution)... SD looks pretty good on it when it's non-interlaced.

[16:58:02]

wagnerrp:

its an anamorphic signal, expanded horizontally, rather than compressed vertically

[16:58:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: But if you feed s-video directly into it, it looks horrid... (480i on a 37" tv looks horrible! – flicker, flicker, flicker... yuck)

[16:59:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: Yeah. That Viewsonic N3 is pretty awesome – even high-motion video looks great on it – no deinterlacing artifacts... Kinda old-school now as it's only one of 2 4:3 displays I still have in the house... ;-)

[17:00:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: (the other is a 20" tv in my son's room)

[17:00:28]

wagnerrp:

we only have two non-4:3

[17:00:39]

wagnerrp:

2 4:3 tvs, and a crapton of monitors

[17:00:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

LCDs have come down so much in price, we probably won't have those for long. ;-)

[17:01:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

I don't know what I'm gonna do with that 37" monitor though – most recycling places only take up to 32" TVs...

[17:02:47]

resno:

would it be wise to wait to buy a hd till after the 22nd?

[17:02:57]

resno:

do you think prices will drop? Or not likely.

[17:03:06]

wagnerrp:

not likely

[17:03:07]

mchou:

what happens on then22nd?

[17:03:11]

wagnerrp:

windows

[17:03:13]

resno:

Didnt think so.

[17:03:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: "HD"? HDD?

[17:03:35]

resno:

J-e-f-f-A: HDD

[17:03:48]

wagnerrp:

hard drives arent going to drop significantly until they start using the next batch of platters

[17:04:01]

resno:

wagnerrp: figured as such.

[17:04:18]

resno:

are there any drives to stay away from? or are they are equally reliable?

[17:04:33]

mchou:

they've already dropped pretty significantly

[17:04:38]

wagnerrp:

they bump up the peak size, redesign the lower sizes, and the whole lot drops in price

[17:04:49]

resno:

i know this is open debate.. about hdd reliablity

[17:04:55]

mchou:

$85 for 1.5 TB retail drive

[17:05:00]

kormoc:

I only buy western digital personally

[17:05:18]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^ sometimes, I was at Micro Center the other day, and they still wanted like $49 for a 160GB drive – but you could get a 500GB for $79... what are they thinking?

[17:05:20]

wagnerrp:

yeah, 1TBs are around $70, 1.5s for $90–110, 2s regularly under $200

[17:05:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

^ouch, really?

[17:05:37]

justinh:

we use a variety of manufacturers junk at work, and none are really any better than others once a box has been air freighted

[17:05:39]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: its not like its any cheaper to produce those 160s

[17:05:53]

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[17:05:55]

wagnerrp:

its still 1–2 platters, head, motors, and case

[17:06:11]

resno:

i was a maxtor fan till the drive died.

[17:06:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: but you'd think they'd want to clear out old stock...

[17:06:22]

wagnerrp:

that 500GB drive is down to at most two platters, they may be making them with just one now

[17:06:32]

** J-e-f-f-A was a WD fan until he had 4 500 GB drives fail hard in a 1 year timeframe.. **

[17:06:39]

justinh:

the last stats I saw had maxtor slightly (like there was 0.1% in it) down on the rest – WD, seagate & Samsung

[17:06:46]

mchou:

Western digital==suckage

[17:06:49]

kormoc:

the 500 gb drives sucked, the larger and smaller ones are fine (for WD)

[17:07:31]

resno:

although this drive is quite old, i was sad to lay it to rest prematurely

[17:07:39]

wagnerrp:

how old?

[17:07:42]

kormoc:

I refuse to use seagate due to them breaking SMART compatibility and lack of linux support

[17:08:05]

resno:

its maybe 6 years old. its a 30gb i believe

[17:08:07]

** J-e-f-f-A now has a mix of WD, Hitachi and Seagate right now... **

[17:08:15]

wagnerrp:

and thats dying prematurely?

[17:08:29]

resno:

yea...ive got older drives that are still running

[17:09:13]

kormoc:

I replace all my hardware every two years...

[17:09:27]

mchou:

lol

[17:09:39]

mchou:

no wonder kormoc likes western digital

[17:10:04]

resno:

kormoc: wow, thats got to be expensive

[17:10:13]

kormoc:

not too bad

[17:10:18]

mchou:

if it lasts two years it's GOTTA be good

[17:11:05]

Dibblah:

It's about right for HDs. You only lose 20% cash on an upgrade cycle, due to the ebay refund.

[17:12:06]

kormoc:

Heh, I just gave away a pile of 120, 200, and 500's to my brother

[17:13:18]

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[17:15:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ah, that's nice. Looks like another one of my WD 500's has gone south... :-(

[17:16:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

('sde' is not accessable... great...)

[17:16:50]

iamlindoro:

Heh, Myth install party Paris... count me in

[17:18:07]

** kormoc blinks **

[17:22:29]

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[17:24:20]

elmojo:

iamlindoro: huh – looks like some M2TS seeking problems still exist with RC1 – http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/403111

[17:24:42]

elmojo:

be nice to get a sample so I could look further into fixing libav seeking for them

[17:27:56]

gbee:

iamlindoro: that's Paris, France, not the slutty millionaire

[17:29:19]

iamlindoro:

gbee: hahah

[17:29:22]

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[17:37:03]

yianni:

Seagate are more fail prone, imho. I've had some 500's fail at work. Nothing wrong with WD, on the other hand.

[17:37:50]

wagnerrp:

seagates just had that one batch of drives with bad firmware

[17:38:00]

yianni:

I take regular backups at home too, luckily I wasn't affected by the bad firmware of the seagate 500s.

[17:38:15]

wagnerrp:

beyond that, they just seem to be the hottest drives out of the batch of manufacturers

[17:38:31]

wagnerrp:

so they may need more cooling than you were giving them

[17:38:47]

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[17:38:50]

yianni:

My myth backend is on a Seagate with the affected firmware. Had it upgraded the moment the steady firmware was out!!

[17:39:19]

Dibblah:

Early run drives in genera are a bad idea.

[17:39:34]

Dibblah:

Buy when the product is half way through it's cycle.

[17:39:38]

yianni:

No, especially the server room at work has a steady 22C 24/7.

[17:39:58]

sphery:

In my experience, hard drives fail.

[17:40:00]

Dibblah:

That way you get lower prices and improvements in their process.

[17:40:14]

yianni:

Yeah. 10 days after warranty expiration.

[17:40:34]

Dibblah:

I spin down my storage and it has lasted longer than the constantly spun drives.

[17:40:41]

Dibblah:

(11 disks in total)

[17:40:59]

Dibblah:

Was 10 disks for the always spinning version, and 100w.

[17:41:00]

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[17:41:32]

yianni:

Spin up and down stresses the hd more.

[17:41:56]

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[17:42:05]

sphery:

yianni: according to Intel, et. al, keeping the server room under 80F (27C) is a waste of energy: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/31/data_ . . . un_too_cool/

[17:42:17]

wagnerrp:

if youre curious, http://www.wagnerrp.com/mrtg/raid/index.php

[17:42:21]

sphery:

of course, that assumes modern hardware

[17:42:24]

wagnerrp:

the seagates are 8 and 10

[17:42:37]

yianni:

sphery: please don't tell them!

[17:42:40]

wagnerrp:

4, 5, and 12 are WDs

[17:42:47]

Dibblah:

yianni: I don't care what people believe.

[17:42:52]

wagnerrp:

6, 7, 9, and 11 are Samsungs

[17:43:06]

Dibblah:

Constant running in a non-datacenter environment can also be a bad thing.

[17:43:26]

Dibblah:

And 100w is £100 / year. Bugger that for a lark.

[17:44:03]

wagnerrp:

the seagates are high temperature, WDs are middling, samsungs are the lowest

[17:44:23]

yianni:

Dibblah: all of them or those that disagree with you?

[17:44:25]

wagnerrp:

not sure if thats actually the case, thats just the SMART temps

[17:44:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

My WD 500's that are failing have 132000 hours of on time – just 550 days, or 1.5 years... :-( (on 24x7)

[17:44:48]

Dibblah:

MAID is getting _very_ common in datacentre environments.

[17:45:02]

wagnerrp:

J-e-f-f-A: one too many zeros

[17:45:14]

wagnerrp:

MAID?

[17:45:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

wagnerrp: oops, yeah. ;-)

[17:45:32]

Dibblah:

Inactive disks in a RAID.

[17:45:51]

wagnerrp:

massive array of inactive disks?

[17:46:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

or Massive Array of INOPERABLE disks? ;-)

[17:46:58]

Dibblah:

Please feel free to look at the actual stats from Google.

[17:47:15]

Dibblah:

Spin up / down cycle has _no_ appreciable effect on the life of a disk.

[17:47:31]

wagnerrp:

that basement is starting to get a bit cold

[17:47:37]

mgisbers_away is now known as mgisbers

[17:47:49]

wagnerrp:

disk temps have dropped 10F in the last month

[17:48:37]

resno:

wagnerrp: good news right?

[17:48:52]

wagnerrp:

not really, just rambling

[17:48:57]

resno:

heh

[17:49:08]

resno:

i think poor ventalition killed my hdd

[17:49:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: the 30GB one? ;-)

[17:49:41]

resno:

J-e-f-f-A: yep

[17:49:56]

resno:

i was just thinking, i havent bought any computer hardware in years.

[17:50:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: I'd lean more towards old age...

[17:50:37]

resno:

J-e-f-f-A: its entirely possible, but thats the youngest hdd i have and its the only one to croack

[17:50:57]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: the smallest drive I've got in my systems right now is a pair of 200's on my master backend for the OS & DB (Mirrored via a hardware raid1 card)

[17:51:41]

sid3windr:

[20|19:45:14] < wagnerrp> MAID?

[17:51:44]

sid3windr:

"cleaning person" :>

[17:52:11]

resno:

how long should a hd live?

[17:52:48]

resno:

..hdd. for those keeping track

[17:52:50]

iamlindoro:

domestic janitorial professional

[17:53:14]

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[17:55:47]

justinh:

oh hell. need to look for a laptop for the outlaws

[17:55:52]

justinh:

sigh

[17:56:06]

kormoc:

resno: I really do count on no more then 2 years of 24x7

[17:56:45]

resno:

kormoc: really? wow.

[17:57:18]

resno:

kormoc: i feel weird to have drives running solidy for 4 years.

[17:57:26]

resno:

4yrs +

[17:57:57]

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[17:58:07]

kormoc:

I also have never lost data, so I'm shooting to keep that streak alive

[17:59:03]

resno:

You operate on the conservative side, I run it till I cant run it anymore.

[17:59:23]

yianni:

On the two hds that have failed so far at home, the first I managed to backup just befor it died. The second...no.

[17:59:29]

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[18:00:10]

resno:

Should I be looking into a raid setup? Or is it paronoid overkill?

[18:00:13]

yianni:

I run all my data in raid 5 since. And regular backup of the rest.

[18:01:14]

kormoc:

anything I care about is raided + backed up monthly

[18:01:21]

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[18:01:36]

yianni:

resno: hdds are cheap now. I think if you have anything valuable you should run raid.

[18:02:21]

yianni:

Actually, my data is on lvm on top of raid 5. (5 x 640GB WDC)

[18:02:25]

resno:

kormoc: are you backing up to a remote machine?

[18:02:44]

yianni:

Sorry, 4 x 640.

[18:02:45]

kormoc:

nah, usb drives that are rotated

[18:02:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: my OS & DB are raid1 (mirrored), and DB backed up to external disk daily.

[18:03:14]

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[18:03:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: i don't bother to raid my Video data – it's 80% TV, and there rest is DVD rips, which I can always re-rip...

[18:03:22]

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[18:03:54]

resno:

i always thought raid was specifically for servers.

[18:04:09]

yianni:

resno: re the dvdrips, I think it depends on their number. Just the time to encode to h264...

[18:04:20]

J-e-f-f-A:

resno: And I believe that my software Raid5 may have contributed to extra wear & tear on my WD 500 drives.. But perhaps they were just 'bum' drives... I dunno.

[18:04:23]

yfaykya:

iamlindoro : That segfault you are looking at for hads looks like same you looked at me for a few weeks back. I still see it every 2nd scan or so mythvideo

[18:04:33]

sphery:

kormoc: ever heard of tempting Fate?

[18:04:44]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:04:52]

iamlindoro:

yfaykya: It's a completely different crash

[18:05:02]

iamlindoro:

in totally different code

[18:05:19]

iamlindoro:

Same circumstances, different crash

[18:05:20]

kormoc:

resno: raid is for when you care about your data being safe and online after a drive crash (or two)

[18:05:23]

yfaykya:

mythgeneric tree? Ok sorry

[18:05:32]

kormoc:

resno: if your data fits that want or not is up to you

[18:05:46]

sphery:

kormoc: after all, if Danger, a MS subsidiary running the Sun- and Oracle-based online storage for Sidekick, can suffer an impossible hardware failure that results in the loss of everyone's data...

[18:05:58]

iamlindoro:

yfaykya: compare the backtraces, the code path is totally different

[18:06:07]

kormoc:

sphery: heh, they recovered it :P

[18:06:20]

resno:

kormoc: i dont think they got everything back..

[18:06:39]

yfaykya:

iamlindoro : Wish I was able :-) I can't tell problem thread

[18:06:42]

sphery:

depends on who you ask

[18:06:46]

sphery:

users or marketing :)

[18:07:27]

** resno who would have thought, i could learn so much from just watching the myth irc. **

[18:07:42]

sphery:

I have to wonder whether MS is embarrassed by all the news about Danger's running non MS systems or elated that non-MS systems failed...

[18:10:59]

kormoc:

sphery: did you see http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/10/17/1719240&n bsp;?

[18:12:26]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: So did Voyager pass by the File Menu, or the font one?

[18:12:52]

iamlindoro:

"You appear to be trying to leave the solar system. Would you like help?"

[18:13:00]

kormoc:

hehe

[18:13:31]

yfaykya:

iamlindoro: I see same code path. ie Thread 1 (process 30969): in http://www.skynet.ie/~shabba/scanning_mv_gdb.txt or am I totally way off mark?

[18:14:41]

sphery:

kormoc: Nice. Some of my friends who work at NASA were asking if you've changed your mind and decided to work for them (since you figured out how those probes were getting closer for a while).

[18:15:14]

** kormoc laughs **

[18:15:20]

kormoc:

If it was only that easy to work for them :)

[18:15:42]

sphery:

heh

[18:15:44]

iamlindoro:

yfaykya: That is indeed the same, that is not the BT I remember you showing me a few weeks ago, however

[18:16:31]

iamlindoro:

Especially since gbee and I made commits related to the one we saw several weeks ago, to taolly different code

[18:16:36]

iamlindoro:

er to totally

[18:16:50]

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[18:18:06]

yfaykya:

iamlindoro: Ok – lemme know if I can help in anyway

[18:18:27]

sphery:

kormoc: "This ribbon winds between the two Voyager spacecraft and was not observed by either of them." Umm... Can you say contrail? ;)

[18:18:39]

kormoc:

heh

[18:19:11]

iamlindoro:

Hey, those probes are busy gaining sentience

[18:19:23]

sphery:

V-ger

[18:19:32]

iamlindoro:

exactly

[18:19:49]

kormoc:

I figure it's due to the electro-magnetic flux the little reactors are causing and it's lighting up like the aura borealis

[18:19:56]

** kormoc waits for his science grant **

[18:20:27]

iamlindoro:

Like your standard Firefly class cargo hauler

[18:21:27]

gbee:

sphery: it wasn't the OS/Database that failed, it was the setup and that falls squarely on the MS employed admins

[18:21:54]

gbee:

MS are just trying to defer the blame, but it's a very weak attempt

[18:22:00]

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[18:26:35]

sphery:

gbee: Heh, yeah, it would be interesting to know the real story. I've heard everything from intentional sabotage to improper design to hardware failure and now admins...

[18:27:35]

sphery:

I'm just glad, though, that I don't have a sidekick (though I never would have gotten a system and stored critical data with it if it doesn't allow some kind of local backup)

[18:28:07]

gbee:

a few comments I read elsewhere by sys admin's running the same hardware/software combos rubbish the implication that the software was to blame, rather than incompetence and a lack of backups

[18:28:55]

sphery:

interesting

[18:29:24]

sphery:

I really don't know anyone with that type of experience--let alone any details of how Danger was running things

[18:29:31]

gbee:

I'm not a sysadmin and I don't know the full story, but when the news broke that they were running Sun+Oracle a lot of people saw that as a desperate smokescreen to place blame elsewhere

[18:30:14]

sphery:

yeah, I will say that all the varied and wildly different releases about it seemed to be feeble attempts to throw off blame

[18:30:52]

sphery:

I mean the stories weren't consistent or even things where you could see them building on each other as new info is gained

[18:31:59]

gbee:

the suggestion was that a properly setup and managed system would not have seen this failure, no matter what software they were using, in fact the revelation that it was a mix of platforms just reinforces that it wasn't software at fault but design

[18:34:49]

gbee:

but most damaging is the obvious truth, they didn't keep off-site and offline backups, in their own words, the only backup was destroyed at the same time, probably because of a mis-configured replication process that didn't think it strange that hundreds of thousands of records were suddenly disappearing

[18:40:08]

iamlindoro:

WHAT THE F IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE

[18:40:20]

iamlindoro:

How can people not realize how intolerably rude the things they say are

[18:42:42]

sphery:

gbee: you don't read -users, anymore, right?

[18:42:46]

AndrewNC:

these days, everyone is a special and unique snow flake, why should they consider anyone else when they are themselves so special?

[18:42:59]

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[18:43:02]

gbee:

sphery: no I don't

[18:43:14]

sphery:

gbee: good... Nothing to see there. Please move along.

[18:43:19]

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[18:43:31]

** gbee goes back to sleep **

[18:43:31]

sphery:

AndrewNC: Well, there are definitely a lot of flakes these days...

[18:43:41]

iamlindoro:

makes one wish for a flamethrower

[18:43:45]

iamlindoro:

not that I didn't throw a bit of a flame

[18:43:58]

sphery:

but no chainsaws...

[18:44:01]

AndrewNC:

iamlindoro: this in respect to another "best of" ticket?

[18:44:05]

kormoc:

Video storage groups?

[18:44:05]

** elmojo gathers around waiting for iamlindoro to set them on fire **

[18:44:16]

iamlindoro:

kormoc: naw

[18:44:21]

sphery:

it was a completely unnecessary theme-related comment

[18:44:29]

sphery:

basically a "change is scary" thing

[18:44:36]

iamlindoro:

As devensive as I can be of my own work, I get 1000x more offended when someone says something stupid/insulting about someone else's

[18:44:43]

iamlindoro:

er defensive

[18:44:53]

iamlindoro:

useless waste of oxygen

[18:45:08]

sphery:

especially if that someone happened to do more work on Myth for the 0.22 release than I will /ever/ get done for Myth.

[18:45:47]

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[18:45:48]

AndrewNC:

this on the ML ?

[18:45:49]

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[18:46:47]

sphery:

it's the newest thread where the guy has his system configured to use an old/broken theme and hasn't updated that theme to a trunk/0.22-fixes-compatible version of that theme

[18:47:24]

iamlindoro:

some people should not be allowed to breathe my air

[18:47:57]

gbee:

if someone wants to figure out a default image, then go for it, that was never meant to be more than a temporary placeholder

[18:48:10]

sphery:

gbee: you weren't supposed to read that

[18:48:45]

gbee:

sphery: I'd have never known it existed if you hadn't drawn my attention ;)

[18:49:00]

sphery:

oops

[18:49:43]

sphery:

well, regardless of what people may say on the list, /I/ very much appreciate all your hard efforts on Myth.

[18:49:52]

gbee:

I can't actually disagree with the guy, Terra is an unprofessional theme ... that's fact :)

[18:49:53]

sphery:

and, the guy can always just change the theme

[18:50:06]

sphery:

I'd say it's "unfinished"

[18:50:08]

AndrewNC:

how frequently does gossamer-threads refresh? I don't subscribe to -users

[18:50:32]

sphery:

AndrewNC: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2009 . . . /267364.html

[18:50:45]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro: i just realized why your transcode 5s ran abnormally fast (or rather my 6m transcodes seem painfully slow)

[18:50:48]

gbee:

most of the themes are unprofessional, I'm not an artist, graphic designer or UI designer by trade :p

[18:50:54]

sphery:

I think gossamer users a random-walk method of updating

[18:51:11]

wagnerrp:

youve got so much memory on that thing, XFS didnt even bother writing to disk until the transcode was done

[18:51:19]

gbee:

but yes Terra is very incomplete too

[18:51:45]

sphery:

wagnerrp: that makes so much sense...

[18:51:57]

AndrewNC:

hurr, what a moran, obviously his build is screwed, how can that equate to a valid target for theme criticism... some people...

[18:51:58]

sphery:

I was impressed with his HDD speed when he mentioned that

[18:52:22]

sphery:

AndrewNC: that is true--once he sets a working theme, Terra looks different

[18:52:28]

sphery:

though it doesn't change the images

[18:52:40]

wagnerrp:

sphery: and it was a 300MB recording, so it just had to do one read at ~100MB/s (which is still very impressive)

[18:52:53]

sphery:

i.e. he's seeing "The Ghost of Terra", not seeing the actual Terra theme

[18:53:28]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, impressive, but not nearly so much as the read /and/ write all that data from the same filesystem

[18:53:45]

wagnerrp:

well, read/write/delete/move/reread

[18:54:01]

AndrewNC:

Terra isn't my preferred visual style, but it is by no means unpolished!

[18:54:23]

AndrewNC:

I can't think of a better default theme

[18:54:34]

mag0o:

Blue!

[18:54:36]

** mag0o ducks **

[18:54:54]

sphery:

G.A.N.T?

[18:55:13]

AndrewNC:

is blue osd the one that looks like a set piece from Peewee's Playhouse ?

[18:55:30]

mag0o:

nice

[18:56:04]

justinh:

people used to say my junk was professional looking. Scam artist :)

[18:56:09]

wagnerrp:

ugh... two episodes of house have now failed transcode

[18:56:19]

AndrewNC:

maybe it looked nice on a SD CRT, but on my HDTV it made blood come out of the HDMI ports

[18:56:21]

justinh:

and no that's not a cry for anybody to leap in to their defence. JUNK

[18:57:00]

justinh:

can't even say I disapprove of blootube-ng – expect for the fact it's put me off ever resurrecting it :P

[18:57:14]

sphery:

justinh: but then again, your themes were done with a very much more limited theme engine

[18:57:23]

sphery:

they pushed the envelope at the time

[18:57:37]

justinh:

there was nothing to stop basic elements looking as nice as things do now

[18:57:43]

sphery:

(I'm still using them on my -fixes systems.)

[18:57:44]

justinh:

apart from popups

[18:58:08]

justinh:

just took some people – gbee & iamlindoro to break the mould somewhat

[18:58:11]

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[19:02:53]

exH:

hi folks... is there any advance on the tcrequant issue in mytharhive? It's been a while and I was wondering if there's any better than half a day's encoding only to get an error at the last.

[19:03:47]

wagnerrp:

just what are you doing that takes half a day to build a DVD?

[19:04:48]

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[19:05:06]

** sphery thinks he's using an old version of myth/mytharchive that guestimates too large a DVD size **

[19:05:19]

sphery:

exH: what SVN branch and revision? mythbackend --version

[19:05:39]

exH:

well it's about 6 hrs of DVB final tcrequant scale is only 1.06 – 0.21 fedora rpms

[19:06:00]

wagnerrp:

you shouldnt be recompressing 6hrs of anything onto a single-sided DVD

[19:06:13]

exH:

why?

[19:06:29]

wagnerrp:

mpeg2 just isnt that good

[19:08:08]

exH:

It's the standard "out of the box" smallest compression ... results are fine, it's not a movie, just ordinary TV

[19:08:59]

exH:

so, 0.22 has a fix? I couldn't find in the repo

[19:09:05]

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[19:09:41]

wagnerrp:

i mean thats only averaging some 850kbps

[19:10:01]

wagnerrp:

i usually run standard definition h264 at double that

[19:10:05]

sphery:

exH: I couldn't tell you--after all I have no idea what revision you're using...

[19:10:07]

exH:

tru, but to be honest. my mum can't tell the difference

[19:10:30]

sphery:

probably the 6 hrs is 6hrs – commercials, too

[19:10:42]

sphery:

which means it's more like 4 hrs

[19:11:02]

exH:

I'll find the rev.. sphery> no it's all edited

[19:11:08]

wagnerrp:

well that still only bumps it up to ~1200kbps

[19:11:24]

sphery:

which is still a bit aggressive for a DL DVD, but would work fine on some stuff (like animation)

[19:11:38]

wagnerrp:

single or dual layer?

[19:11:50]

sphery:

if SL, it's way compressed

[19:12:08]

sphery:

but if the quality is good enough...

[19:12:36]

wagnerrp:

interesting... i have two House 6x05s

[19:14:19]

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[19:14:32]

exH:

erm how do I find the revision, sorry

[19:14:38]

sphery:

exH: as I mentioned above, you can get the revision from mythbackend --version

[19:14:40]

wagnerrp:

mythbackend --version

[19:14:48]

wagnerrp:

hey, you beat me that time

[19:14:57]

sphery:

I was actually typing that before he asked

[19:15:04]

wagnerrp:

heh

[19:15:06]

sphery:

which is why the "as I mentioned above" was in there

[19:15:16]

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[19:15:24]

sphery:

it was my, "I think you may have missed my saying that"

[19:15:34]

exH:

MythTV Version : 22186M

[19:15:36]

exH:

MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-21-fixes

[19:15:37]

wagnerrp:

jedi powers there... youre seeing the questions before theyre asked

[19:15:38]

exH:

Network Protocol : 40

[19:15:40]

exH:

Library API : 0.21.20080304–1

[19:15:47]

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[19:15:49]

sphery:

does it say revision?

[19:15:51]

sphery:

or exported?

[19:16:11]

sphery:

something like: MythTV Version : 22544

[19:16:26]

wagnerrp:

i think hes running 22186

[19:16:27]

exH:

22186M

[19:16:30]

exH:

:)

[19:16:36]

sphery:

wow... good question

[19:16:47]

wagnerrp:

your jedi powers have failed you

[19:17:02]

sphery:

well, the changes I was thinking of went in quite some time before that, and nothing since that version

[19:17:10]

sphery:

oh, I also meant, "good guess"

[19:17:31]

wagnerrp:

you didnt see him paste the version in?

[19:18:52]

sphery:

wow... I did miss that

[19:19:14]

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[19:23:23]

exH:

So as far as you know so far I shouldn't a tcrequant error. I only heard of possible fixes but haven't seen a solution since it started

[19:23:38]

sphery:

exH: You can edit the disk sizes in mytharchive/mythburn/scripts/mythburn.py to be smaller and it may work... The problem is that mytharchive guesses how big the transcoded stuff will be, and the more video you try to put on the DVD, the bigger the effect of the inaccuracies. So, if you tell it that your DVD is smaller than it really is, it may actually take care of it for you.

[19:24:05]

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[19:24:07]

sphery:

Of course, that is assuming that the error is that it's too big for the DVD.

[19:24:17]

sphery:

if it's something else, I don't know what it may be.

[19:24:54]

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[19:25:02]

Administrator is now known as cheeseboy

[19:25:30]

cheeseboy:

how do i know which dev is my cap card?

[19:25:44]

cheeseboy:

3 /dev/video's say hvr-150

[19:25:52]

cheeseboy:

pvr-150*

[19:26:59]

exH:

Thanks sphery.. I can't say I really know what it is exactly. I'll see what editing the disk sizes does.. see you in half a day :)

[19:27:10]

sphery:

good luck

[19:29:12]

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[19:29:17]

wagnerrp:

cheeseboy: trial and error

[19:30:09]

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[19:30:29]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you were wondering about realistic gigabit speeds?

[19:30:46]

wagnerrp:

im currently pulling 53MB/s off my server, onto an external drive attached to my windows desktop

[19:31:25]

sphery:

not bad

[19:31:32]

sphery:

mine is probably CPU-limited

[19:32:13]

wagnerrp:

thats some 20% usage on both machines, largely consumed by samba

[19:32:25]

sphery:

Guess I should say, "Pushing uncompressed video across a gigabit network is about akin to trying to push high-bitrate compressed video across wifi."

[19:33:14]

gbee:

why would you want to do such a thing?

[19:33:28]

gbee:

wait, nevermind I probably don't want to know

[19:34:05]

sphery:

I'm saying you don't want to.

[19:34:12]

sphery:

but it's theoretically possible

[19:34:24]

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[19:34:33]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the discussion was just over whether you *could* do it

[19:34:47]

wagnerrp:

and apparently some IP KVMs *do* do it

[19:34:50]

sphery:

though I did say, "over the network," without saying which one

[19:35:03]

sphery:

as it's obvious it could be done on a 10Gb network

[19:35:54]

sphery:

but even then I wouldn't do it

[19:36:53]

sphery:

and I'd guess it doesn't have that much benefit, as it will take a similarly-powerful system to receive, process, and buffer that much incoming data while writing it to screen in realtime without glitches as it would take to actually receive a nice compressed video and decode it.

[19:37:47]

sphery:

but it is nice to see that by upgrading my systems, I could increase the throughput on my gigabit LAN connections

[19:43:29]

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[19:53:41]

sphery:

gbee and wagnerrp : http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1559 . . . -cheap-chips (240e, 245e, and 250e dual-core 45W TDP procs)

[19:53:51]

sphery:

guess they didn't wait 'til the 22nd, but released today

[19:53:59]

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[19:54:25]

sphery:

still not on newegg, though

[19:57:53]

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[19:58:06]

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[19:58:20]

sphery:

never bought from them/don't recommend them, but: http://www.provantage.com/amd-ad240ehdgqbox~7AAMD2C8.htm (about $15 more than the 240 at their store, but the 240 at newegg is $10 less than the same at provantage)

[19:58:38]

iamlindoro:

Heh, Mac Mini server model

[19:59:44]

iamlindoro:

and a multitouch mouse

[19:59:56]

sphery:

multitouch mouse?

[20:00:12]

iamlindoro:

yep, whole surface is a multitouch pad

[20:00:31]

sphery:

so touchpad or mouse?

[20:00:35]

iamlindoro:

mouse

[20:00:41]

gbee:

eh?

[20:00:43]

iamlindoro:

whose surface is a gesture interface

[20:00:48]

sphery:

confusing

[20:00:56]

iamlindoro:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/10/20/cnet.apple . . . e/index.html

[20:01:00]

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[20:01:06]

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[20:01:13]

sphery:

so you do stuff by petting your mouse?

[20:01:18]

tbone:

I have a little situation that probably is pretty easy to fix, but i haven't done it yet. I am using karmic and am using a ppa anyway it installs updated dependency nvida 1.95 something, instead of the karmic default. Now i goto install myth and it wont install unmet dependencies. I tried to force mythtv-frontend but that don't work. Suggestions

[20:01:19]

iamlindoro:

more or less :)

[20:01:37]

iamlindoro:

don't use third party ppa's

[20:01:45]

iamlindoro:

and if you do, seek help from their maintainers

[20:02:09]

sphery:

guess only the 235e and 240e were released today...

[20:02:09]

iamlindoro:

we don't provide package support here at all, least of all for third party repositories

[20:02:18]

sphery:

the 245e and 250e held for later

[20:02:20]

tbone:

is there an easy way to uninstall ppa?

[20:02:31]

iamlindoro:

don't know, don't do package support here

[20:02:37]

iamlindoro:

try #ubuntu or #mythbuntu?

[20:02:54]

tbone:

k will do.

[20:02:58]

tbone:

thanks

[20:02:59]

iamlindoro:

n[p

[20:03:01]

iamlindoro:

np

[20:04:46]

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[20:14:27]

gbee:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8317030.stm

[20:16:26]

iamlindoro:

Wow!

[20:18:13]

iamlindoro:

Bet that guy needed a vodka thereafter :)

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[20:33:06]

tbone:

is there something that makes pulseaudio harder to support on mythtv then say mplayer,vlc,etc.. , just wondering if there is some diffculty that mythtv has that makes it harder to implement. Or just no one really wants it.

[20:34:56]

iamlindoro:

pulseaudio emulates a small subset of ALSA APIs that it considers "safe". Myth uses some not within that subset, breaking audio sync in many cases

[20:35:26]

iamlindoro:

it is doable, it is not trivial, and the people complaining about it coincidentally always tend to be the people who are unable/unwilling to do it themselves

[20:36:46]

jams:

dont forget to mention that pulse just isnt needed

[20:37:04]

tbone:

Well, i was just wondering, i am sure it will get done when someone with skills wants it done enough! I know it wouldn't be a 5 min job.

[20:37:19]

AndrewNC:

the problems pulseaudio is meant to solve are not relevant to a htpc device

[20:37:25]

tbone:

jams, well it depends on what you are doing

[20:37:40]

iamlindoro:

pulseaudio isn't needed for anything myth does :)

[20:37:59]

tbone:

no but it can enchance your myth experience

[20:38:08]

iamlindoro:

no, it really can't

[20:38:17]

iamlindoro:

all it can really do at the moment is break your myth experience

[20:38:21]

tbone:

i give you example give me a sec

[20:38:27]

iamlindoro:

no

[20:38:29]

iamlindoro:

no thanks

[20:38:40]

iamlindoro:

we hear examples and arguments multiple times a week

[20:38:43]

iamlindoro:

so just, please, no.

[20:38:58]

iamlindoro:

Unless the story ends with, "and that's when I wrote this patch," please don't.

[20:39:05]

AndrewNC:

tbone: I'll read an example, but I doubt it will be accurate or require PA to acomplish

[20:39:18]

jams:

should have know that would happen..but really it's not needed.

[20:39:40]

jams:

didn't mean to start a "yes it is", "no it isn'st" thread

[20:40:31]

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[20:40:36]

iamlindoro:

!trout jams gasoline-on-the-fire

[20:40:36]

** MythLogBot slaps jams with a gasoline-on-the-fire trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[20:40:43]

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[20:41:32]

CyberKnet:

!trout iamlindoro pulseaudio-weilding

[20:41:32]

** MythLogBot slaps iamlindoro with a pulseaudio-weilding trout on behalf of CyberKnet... **

[20:41:37]

CyberKnet:

;)

[20:42:02]

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[20:43:21]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, Myth will likely have pulseaudio support in the nearish future (without making any promises), if only to stop the relentless talking about it

[20:43:40]

AndrewNC:

perhaps fake pulseaudio support would be sufficient

[20:44:00]

AndrewNC:

have it snoop the pa.conf and write directly to the alsa device!

[20:44:07]

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[20:44:37]

tbone:

alright: one example is playing multiple streams over the tv, I get voip call i want to talk with my computer that i have myth running, I think

[20:44:59]

iamlindoro:

So this story ends with "and that's when I wrote this patch," then?

[20:45:11]

AndrewNC:

that doesn't sound like a great experience

[20:45:18]

tbone:

iamlindoro: wasn't talking to you

[20:45:24]

** gbee gives iamlindoro a spoonful of sugar **

[20:45:33]

tbone:

Andrew asked for example

[20:45:46]

AndrewNC:

voip would be best served muting the tv stream, or using a seperate audio (headset) device

[20:46:49]

AndrewNC:

I'm not sure if myth can internally mix audio in the case of a plugin

[20:47:00]

tbone:

AndrewNC pc comes with web cam, mythtv will eventully have a plugin or something to have that

[20:47:38]

iamlindoro:

tbone: To what end? You seem to think that there is some obstinacy on the part of the myth devs where we refuse to support pulseaudio

[20:48:03]

iamlindoro:

None of us use it, none of use care about it, so why should we take homework assignments to do the massive amount of work?

[20:48:20]

tbone:

I understand

[20:48:31]

iamlindoro:

Open source isn't about acceding to any user's demands, it's about the code being there, and if you want it, you do it

[20:48:32]

devinheitmueller:

tbone: If I can offer a suggestion – I don't think anybody is saying supporting PulseAudio is a bad idea. It's just not important enough to any of the developers in question. So unless you are offering to submit a patch, I think this is kind of a dead end.

[20:48:33]

AndrewNC:

iamlindoro: how is that not obstinance? ;-)

[20:48:49]

AndrewNC:

I don't think ostinance always means without reason

[20:49:17]

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[20:49:36]

AndrewNC:

devinheitmueller: got your email, thx!

[20:50:07]

devinheitmueller:

AndrewNC: np. I dropped it off at the post office after lunch, so it should get there in a couple of days. It's officially "in the mail".

[20:50:26]

iamlindoro:

Oh noes, you didn't trust that shift guy, did you?

[20:50:28]

iamlindoro:

shifty

[20:50:31]

tbone:

I understand the meaning of opensource and am not on your ass to do it, I just know what will be used in the future, and I know someone will get it working in myth.

[20:50:53]

AndrewNC:

I wouldn't be surprised to have it tomorrow, I order stuff from Mouser (which I believe is in NJ) and get it the next day sometimes

[20:50:57]

tbone:

because someone will want it working bad enough to do it.

[20:51:29]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: Yup. I've got his money now!

[20:51:42]

AndrewNC:

hehe

[20:52:28]

iamlindoro:

Excellent, what's my cut for declaring you "clean"?

[20:52:52]

sphery:

People want PulseAudio support for the exact same reason people "want" Internet Explorer--because it's there.

[20:52:52]

AndrewNC:

of course, now I'm entitled to 24x7 phone support for anything remotely correlated to a TV :p

[20:53:48]

AndrewNC:

sphery: I dunno if it is that bad, one could make some good general points about the benifits of having it, even if just to stem the frequent questions

[20:54:13]

iamlindoro:

Now I can listen to Myth on my bluetooth headset while I drop the kids off at the pool

[20:54:15]

iamlindoro:

great

[20:54:38]

AndrewNC:

can't alsa do that?

[20:54:41]

devinheitmueller:

AndrewNC: Ah, sure. Let me give you my phone number. It's....

[20:54:42]

** devinheitmueller disconnected... **

[20:54:51]

AndrewNC:

hah

[20:54:55]

iamlindoro:

For those not euphemistically inclined, I'm talking about sitting on the toilet

[20:56:09]

AndrewNC:

I saw those volunteer thigns in the news, thought, "oh, I could help people plugin their new PCs and stuff" then realized that is the first step down a terrible road, like setting two cockroaches free in your basement

[20:56:09]

sphery:

I didn't get the euphemism

[20:56:43]

tbone:

So u guys don't copy and paste the internal player from the likes of mplayer or vlc i take it

[20:56:47]

AndrewNC:

never offer computer help to relatives or strangers that can reach you

[20:56:58]

iamlindoro:

tbone: no. Not even close.

[20:57:12]

tbone:

why not just curious?

[20:57:50]

AndrewNC:

mplayer has a lot of extra baked into it

[20:57:54]

iamlindoro:

because myth offers tons of functionality that simple media players don't even attempt to deal with, necessitating our own player

[20:58:37]

AndrewNC:

i looked at modding some mplayer OSD stuff and realized it probably wasn't worth the effort for what I wanted

[20:58:55]

iamlindoro:

Myth deals with a full OSD, metadata, multiple tuners, the scheduler, the database seektable, the intricacies of different broadcast types worldwide, and a million other things that media players don't have to contend with

[20:59:14]

AndrewNC:

the code is like the entrance to the temple in The Last Crusade

[20:59:30]

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[20:59:48]

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[21:00:03]

kormoc:

PIP

[21:00:16]

iamlindoro:

EPG

[21:00:51]

gbee:

PBP

[21:00:57]

iamlindoro:

etc.

[21:00:58]

iamlindoro:

etc.

[21:00:59]

iamlindoro:

etc.

[21:01:23]

gbee:

bookmarks, automatic audio and subtitle selection by language

[21:01:56]

gbee:

frankly by comparison mythtv's internal player is better than most media players

[21:02:13]

tbone:

Basically its all the stuff that overlaps the live video

[21:02:36]

iamlindoro:

more than that

[21:02:57]

jams:

there was a time when mplayer/xine couldn't even handle nuv files

[21:03:22]

kormoc:

per frame jumping without audio distortion...

[21:03:29]

iamlindoro:

Our player is tightly married to the method of recording that data, or timeshifting it, of recording seektable information to the database, and to doing all of that for every permutation of every supported broadcast type worldwide

[21:03:44]

kormoc:

playback at differing rates without audio distortion...

[21:03:47]

iamlindoro:

None of which a media player need worry about

[21:03:55]

iamlindoro:

yeah, timeshift is a biggie

[21:04:16]

iamlindoro:

er timestretch, rather

[21:04:19]

tbone:

my eyes are opening thanks!

[21:04:44]

gbee:

frame accurate seeking! something that no common media players offer

[21:04:55]

iamlindoro:

video editing

[21:05:01]

iamlindoro:

commercial skip

[21:05:05]

sphery:

don't even copy the libraries without modification

[21:05:07]

gbee:

meaning if you jumped 1 minute forward, it's exactly 1 minute, not just a rough approximation

[21:05:16]

gbee:

editing's a good one

[21:05:18]

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[21:05:26]

kormoc:

yeah, inline editing is pretty awesome

[21:05:41]

kormoc:

and it's frame exact inline editing

[21:05:46]

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[21:06:21]

sphery:

timestretch is also great (though vlc has something similar--if not nearly as useful--and xine has the same thing, but through an audio plugin)

[21:06:43]

sphery:

and TV-based caption support

[21:06:53]

sphery:

most others just support subtitles

[21:06:59]

** mag0o loves timestretch, it makes curious george bearable **

[21:08:59]

tbone:

I haven't even been able to tinker to much with all the options in myth yet but I already love it.

[21:09:50]

tbone:

waiting for the mythtv for dummies book hehe.

[21:11:14]

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[21:11:24]

tbone:

I once went to set the default volume, and got lost inside all the options for a whole day.

[21:16:57]

sphery:

the options in Myth are mainly meant for people who prefer self-inflicting pain over watching and recording TV

[21:17:46]

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[21:18:27]

iamlindoro:

And we'll see what we can do about them in the near future

[21:19:07]

sphery:

when does your flamethrower arrive?

[21:19:34]

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[21:20:39]

Josh_Borke:

there are a bunch of options in myth? i must have missed them...

[21:21:13]

sphery:

then you're doing Myth the right way!

[21:21:47]

Josh_Borke:

now, my analog tuner on the other hand...whew, that's a bitch to get working all the time

[21:21:49]

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[21:22:43]

sphery:

analog tuners that aren't PVR-x50/500's (or HVR-<whatevers>) are /supposed/ to inflict pain on their users

[21:23:08]

** kormoc shoots Ken Bass **

[21:23:15]

Josh_Borke:

:( kworld 115

[21:23:25]

Josh_Borke:

and a hvr-1800 :(

[21:23:32]

sphery:

unfortunately, the designers of the framegrabber drivers vastly underestimated the users' pain thresholds, so not enough of them get real capture cards

[21:23:57]

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[21:24:06]

Josh_Borke:

hvr1600 is <3 though

[21:26:19]

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[21:29:52]

devinheitmueller:

sphery: it's only half our fault – if the developers writing apps intended to conform to the v4l2 api pointed out all the bugs they find rather than hacking around them, everybody would be alot better off.

[21:30:23]

devinheitmueller:

I spent a couple of hours looking at the MythTV v4l2 code a couple of weeks ago, and said to myself "wow".

[21:31:43]

devinheitmueller:

I'm not really blaming anybody, since an app developer's goal is to "make it work", but some of the stuff I saw in there made me say, "Oh crap. If somebody had told me about that I could have fixed it in the driver eliminating the need for a hack/workaround."

[21:32:39]

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[21:33:08]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: I feel your pain

[21:33:35]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: yeah, actually, I was saying I want the framegrabber drivers to be harder to configure so that people actually get hardware encoders instead.

[21:33:37]

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[21:33:50]

** iamlindoro is all for just dropping framegrabber support **

[21:34:06]

sphery:

gbee: I'm sure you saw a /ton/ of that when porting everything to mythui

[21:34:15]

sphery:

workarounds, etc.

[21:34:58]

devinheitmueller:

I actually think the framegrabber support is useful. It could just use some TLC.

[21:35:23]

gbee:

devinheitmueller: I can't really comment since I didn't write that code and much of it pre-dates my time on the project, however most of the devs currently at work here would take the time to report problems upstream

[21:35:28]

kormoc:

devinheitmueller: you still can fix it in the driver and have us remove the hack :)

[21:35:49]

devinheitmueller:

kormoc: Yeah, I was going to take a closer look and see what I can do.

[21:36:03]

gbee:

I can certainly forward your comment to the rest of the devs, assuming they have any familiarity with the problems that lead to the original workarounds

[21:36:26]

iamlindoro:

No! I'll decide what devinheitmueller will be doing... and that is... improving the scanner.

[21:36:30]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: Really what I probably need to do is sit down and take a hard look at the code, and come up with a specific list of needed fixes.

[21:36:31]

iamlindoro:

Sorry, I've spoken.

[21:36:46]

devinheitmueller:

iamlindoro: Sorry, I only wrote ATSC scanning for Kaffeine. I'm a traitor.

[21:36:58]

iamlindoro:

bzzt, too late, words out now

[21:37:00]

iamlindoro:

;)

[21:37:28]

gbee:

not that it's really an excuse for failure to report issues upstream but when it comes to drivers there is a particular problem with the time it would take fixes to reach the end-user, so it's often easier to work around an immediate problem and report it later (which then gets forgotten)

[21:37:32]

devinheitmueller:

It's interesting to spend some time for once and taking a look at how people are actually using the API.

[21:37:58]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: I hear you. The propagation delay has gotten alot better in the Linux kernel, but it's still a problem.

[21:38:06]

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[21:41:08]

sphery:

devinheitmueller: even ignoring that, the upstream project->distro->users delay is quite log

[21:41:14]

gbee:

and some issues aren't interpreted as being bugs in the API, but rather designed behaviour – I've run into a lot of API problems which the developers consider to be features ;) After a while you tend to accept APIs at face value rather than trying to fight with those upstream to make changes

[21:41:34]

sphery:

long, that is

[21:41:43]

devinheitmueller:

Well, it's true that one of the big problems is inconsistent implementation of the API.

[21:41:55]

devinheitmueller:

I've seen lots of cases of that, which is something I would like to see improved.

[21:42:02]

devinheitmueller:

(I mean on the driver side)

[21:42:13]

sphery:

especially with Myth boxes as a lot of users only update their Myth boxes with new releases of Myth

[21:42:55]

devinheitmueller:

Well, the multiyear release cycle for Myth itself doesn't really help the situation.

[21:43:08]

gbee:

I'd welcome closer cooperation between the driver developers and MythTV, we've already infiltrated the DVB ranks :p

[21:43:30]

** sphery gives up on #7382... I just don't know enough about the UI/painter to fix it, so daniel's looking at it on Monday will probably get it fixed before I could. **

[21:44:05]

devinheitmueller:

I work on the dvb side too. I think it's definitely cleaner than the analog side because there are fewer possible combinations (reading MPEG packets tends to be simpler than decoding analog video)

[21:44:18]

devinheitmueller:

... IMHO.

[21:44:54]

gbee:

in fairness, it's only been the last two releases that have dragged out over more than a year, 0.21 because developer numbers were nosediving and lets say that the ship was rudderless for a while, 0.22 because it was the subject of two massive and invasive re-writes

[21:45:47]

Josh_Borke:

history is shortly remembered

[21:46:08]

Dagmar:

NullEntity: What kinda of router is it?

[21:46:08]

devinheitmueller:

Well, I hope that's the case. Really long release cycles create an atmosphere of "well, if I go through the trouble to make this fix, it might get to users in eighteen months..."

[21:47:02]

Dagmar:

That would be ignoring the people followinf -fixes

[21:47:17]

gbee:

we're committing to rigid 4 month cycles from here onwards (well 0.23 is being stretched by an extra month because Christmas/New Years fall right in the middle)

[21:47:32]

Josh_Borke:

gbee: wow, that's awesome news

[21:47:43]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: That's fantastic.

[21:47:59]

gbee:

Josh_Borke: subject to change, we have to see how it works out

[21:48:05]

sphery:

gbee: the question is whether we'll actually release 0.22 before the 0.22->0.23 release cycle finishes :)

[21:48:23]

Josh_Borke:

gbee: i think it's very aggressive, but even a 50% increase over that is fantastic imo

[21:48:26]

CyberKnet:

ship was rudderless... ouch.

[21:48:54]

sphery:

he just meant that there was no specified goal for development for 0.21

[21:49:07]

sphery:

0.22 had very specific goals

[21:49:21]

sphery:

(at least that's how I read it)

[21:49:23]

CyberKnet:

Aaah. I thought it was an indication of Chutt's availability in some way

[21:49:31]

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[21:49:42]

CyberKnet:

I couldn't remember if that was the period of time where he was looking for work

[21:50:07]

iamlindoro:

Setting a semi-firm release schedule will also help to regiment our development-- people will work on what they can get done in that period, and will know that the deadline is looming

[21:50:18]

iamlindoro:

rather than just having someone drop a mail suggesting we feature freeze one day

[21:50:26]

sphery:

well, he's been very busy with work for a couple of years, now

[21:51:11]

CyberKnet:

Just realized – Other than programming in some form, I have no idea what it is he does for a living.

[21:51:33]

gbee:

there were lots of contributing factors, Chutt being unable to contribute as much time was certainly one but I'm not placing blame, another was simply that a few long time contributors drifted away and there was a sense of inertia

[21:51:47]

CyberKnet:

Of course, nobody would be able to tell I code for a living, and that includes even if I submitted patches :P

[21:52:17]

** CyberKnet codes for the dark side **

[21:52:30]

jams:

windows guy ?

[21:52:35]

CyberKnet:

yep

[21:52:39]

jams:

thought sos

[21:52:39]

jams:

so

[21:52:41]

CyberKnet:

Don't work for them, but with their tech

[21:52:51]

Dagmar:

We promise not to um... set you on fire.

[21:52:56]

jams:

right..thought I remembered this converstaion from a while back

[21:53:05]

gbee:

sphery: as much as people want 0.22 NOW, they would turn on us like a pack of wolves if 0.22 was released without adequate testing – Catch 22

[21:53:06]

iamlindoro:

Anyway, as part of the "new breed" I would say there's definitely a positive intertia now

[21:53:08]

devinheitmueller:

Sorry, I was not trying to start a criticism of mythtv's development methodology.

[21:53:33]

sphery:

gbee: Catch 0.22?

[21:53:44]

gbee:

ho-ho-ho

[21:53:49]

iamlindoro:

Multiple new productive devs added, probably more on the way, and a definite sense of where we are headed/desire to address usability issues as a group

[21:55:30]

gbee:

we need some rich benefactor to pay for us all to get together in one place, I'm betting we'd make more progress in a single night over beers than we normally make in six months

[21:56:19]

devinheitmueller:

gbee: over on the linuxtv side, we've been trying to use the Linux Plumbers Conference for that. It has been really effective to get most of the devs in a single room for two or three days. Much better than solving certain issues via email.

[21:56:42]

sphery:

gbee: Yeah, we do need to get things tested. It's just disheartening that we're finding so many new blockers when Oct 1 was the goal for release.

[21:56:44]

gbee:

if there does happen to be such a person out there, a nice Caribbean/Pacific island would be an ideal venue :p

[21:57:03]

sphery:

ah, that's way too close to home for me.

[21:57:06]

sphery:

I wanted to travel

[21:57:12]

Dagmar:

Mauritania!

[21:58:33]

gbee:

or sticking to the island idea, the Cape Verde islands off the coast

[21:59:20]

gbee:

no idea what they are actually like ...

[21:59:41]

Dagmar:

Mauritania has jurisdictional issues that make it friendly to lots of things

[21:59:53]

gbee:

heh

[21:59:58]

Dagmar:

I just can't find someone who hates goldfarmers enough to set me up there

[22:00:36]

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[22:03:58]

gbee:

Cuba is OSS friendly ....

[22:04:16]

Dagmar:

Yeah but as a US Citizen my status in Cuba would be questionable at best.

[22:07:18]

Dagmar:

Kraps: I do not want to see a Harry Potter MMO

[22:09:15]

gbee:

please, no bad language

[22:13:52]

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[22:14:37]

tmkt:

btw is it possible with PBP/PIP to send one audio track to the soundcard, and the other to an external usb audio ?

[22:15:11]

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[22:15:53]

Dagmar:

Not that I'm aware of

[22:15:56]

** sphery would like to see some package-based MythTV users reply to "[mythtv-users] Setting recording profile with Mythweb And4713 mythbackend, only" with info on just how much HDD space installing the mythfrontend package takes **

[22:16:05]

tmkt:

thing is..i think v0.22 is in better shape then current v0.21 – fe a little less stable then 21...but everything else..22 is great

[22:16:26]

And4713:

what?

[22:16:49]

sphery:

And4713: sorry, there was a tab in the subject, so my autocomplete put you in

[22:16:54]

And4713:

hahaha

[22:17:01]

gbee:

tmkt: fe is unstable? have you filed a bug report?

[22:17:20]

And4713:

back to lurking I suppose

[22:17:45]

tmkt:

gbee: hard to..the crashes are intermittent

[22:17:47]

sphery:

tmkt: ttbomk, PIP/PBP are picture-related-only features... There is no AIA or ABA to go with it.

[22:17:51]

tmkt:

not sure what causes them

[22:18:04]

sphery:

best you could do is switch which one's audio you're hearing

[22:18:04]

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[22:18:17]

tmkt:

sphery: ah..ok..was just curious... would be great to be able to put some headphones on and watch football while kids/wife watched their show

[22:18:27]

tmkt:

i've seen that before on old sony tvs

[22:18:39]

sphery:

tmkt: that's what all the other computers/laptops in your house are for :)

[22:18:42]

gbee:

thing is that we can't fix problems without reports (telepathy isn't one of those abilities we've been blessed with) ;)

[22:19:11]

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[22:19:17]

tmkt:

gbee: yeah... would like to be able to provide useful bug report

[22:19:21]

tmkt:

FE crashes

[22:19:25]

tmkt:

is pretty hard to debug

[22:19:26]

gbee:

fwiw, it sounds like a nice feature, but it complicates setup a little

[22:19:34]

sphery:

I once tried to improve my psychic skills and achieve telepathy, but ended up just becoming psychopathic... :(

[22:19:47]

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[22:19:49]

tmkt:

is there a bug file for the size of the menus when PIP/PBP is active?

[22:19:53]

tmkt:

if not i can file one for that

[22:20:08]

sphery:

size of menus?

[22:20:20]

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[22:20:29]

sphery:

might need a screenshot, but I don't think I've seen one

[22:20:30]

tmkt:

yeah

[22:20:35]

tmkt:

when PIP or PBP are enabled

[22:20:39]

kormoc:

sphery: psychopathic++

[22:20:41]

sphery:

(i.e. a ticket might need a screenshot)

[22:20:41]

tmkt:

the menu is very very small

[22:20:55]

tmkt:

compared to the info menu when you aren't using any of those features

[22:21:11]

tmkt:

like the info menu shows up in the small PIP window...unreadable

[22:21:13]

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[22:21:24]

tmkt:

unless i get up and stand 1 foot from the screen

[22:22:30]

tmkt:

so should i file a feature request for the multiple audio? and a bug for the PBP/PIP menu?

[22:22:41]

sphery:

if you file a bug, screenshots would be great (on trunk/0.22-fixes, you can bind a key to the ScreenShot jumppoint and it should make a picture of what's on the screen--if you use a supported renderer). Also, please mention which OSD renderer and video renderer you're using.

[22:23:21]

tmkt:

instructions in the twiki on the binding of keys for screenshot?

[22:24:17]

gbee:

wow, busy night for my backend tomorrow

[22:24:22]

tmkt:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Index.php/Feature_Wishlist

[22:25:39]

purserj:

gbee: context is everything with statements like that I think

[22:25:40]

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[22:26:13]

tmkt:

purserj: was thinking the same

[22:26:53]

gbee:

yeah, my synapses are firing a little slow tonight or I would have been more careful how I phrased that ;)

[22:30:10]

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[22:30:20]

sphery:

tmkt: yeah, the multiple-audio would go on the Feature Wishlist wiki page

[22:31:19]

tmkt:

yeah..no access to edit that page

[22:31:33]

iamlindoro:

you need an account

[22:31:35]

kormoc:

tmkt: the alsa plugins I told you about didn't do the trick?

[22:31:39]

iamlindoro:

so just register one

[22:31:57]

tmkt:

kormoc: told me about where?

[22:32:24]

kormoc:

didn't I give you some alsa plguins to send audio to multiple devices a week or two back?

[22:32:46]

tmkt:

nope

[22:32:51]

tmkt:

this is the first time i've asked about it

[22:32:55]

tmkt:

just discovered pip yesterday

[22:33:11]

kormoc:

ahh, must have been someone else

[22:33:14]

sphery:

kormoc: he wants to decode 2 audio streams simultaneously using the same mythfrontend

[22:33:24]

kormoc:

hrm, that's different

[22:33:36]

sphery:

so he wants Audio-by-Audio to go with his Picture-by-Picture

[22:34:54]

kormoc:

ahh

[22:35:34]

sphery:

I still contend that a 2nd mythfrontend box is a better approach--even a laptop

[22:35:46]

sphery:

but then again, I always get to watch my choice of show on Myth

[22:35:57]

sphery:

never have to watch what someone else chose

[22:36:00]

kormoc:

yeah

[22:36:05]

kormoc:

it'd be so muddled imho...

[22:36:37]

Dagmar:

Cool. The commflagger isn't segfaulting anymore

[22:37:32]

sphery:

yeah, his comment about headphones made it at least sensible, but still a lot of work for a not-too-commonly-usable feature

[23:05:57]

tmkt:

sphery: don't even have such headphones... was just checking if it was possible

[23:06:21]

tmkt:

just thought about that old sony tv i had that did it

[23:06:39]

Dagmar:

In the tradition of writing high-level docs that have no easy way to be linked to the rest of the documentation, I'm scribbling up how to make ISC's DHCPd get people static leases

[23:07:12]

sphery:

Yeah--I just meant that any time I'd heard people ask, it made no sense to me because it wuold just be talking on top of talking... When you introduced the idea of headphones, it seemed much more sensible.

[23:15:43]

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[23:19:49]

czth_ is now known as czth

[23:23:52]

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[23:27:46]

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[23:28:41]

tbone:

are there any (I think roko) type devices using a mythfrontend yet?

[23:30:53]

iamlindoro:

Roku, and no

[23:30:57]

iamlindoro:

not yet

[23:33:02]

iamlindoro:

Holy God, I can't close the invalid/dupe tickets fast enough

[23:34:16]

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[23:34:37]

iamlindoro:

ANOTHER one!!

[23:34:46]

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[23:39:36]

GreyFoxx:

Man I want one of these http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/10/barnes . . . ader-leaked/

[23:40:10]

GreyFoxx:

Assuming I can view newspapers eventually and put in my own text/pdf/whatever files as well

[23:40:12]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: there's also a new 2-screen android one announced

[23:40:30]

sphery:

that way, you could support a frienemy who claims it's an "Open Source" platform

[23:40:31]

GreyFoxx:

oh ? So a real book like look to it ?

[23:40:40]

sphery:

not so much

[23:40:46]

sphery:

one sec...

[23:41:09]

GreyFoxx:

That one I just posted runs android and has a bottom screen for a touch keyboard/navigation menu

[23:41:54]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: http://www.springdesign.com/resource/jsp/

[23:42:03]

sphery:

yeah, similar idea

[23:42:12]

sphery:

think this one is smaller/taller

[23:42:23]

GreyFoxx:

crazy :)

[23:42:38]

sphery:

Alex# features a 6" E-Ink EPD display and 3.5" color LCD display

[23:42:51]

sphery:

The Nook has the regular black-and-white E Ink display and a 3.5-inch color touchscreen

[23:43:00]

GreyFoxx:

Ahhh poo

[23:43:08]

GreyFoxx:

I didn't realize it was black and white

[23:43:21]

sphery:

heh, e-ink

[23:43:30]

sphery:

but only for the book part

[23:43:40]

sphery:

that's why they have the 3.5" color part

[23:44:01]

GreyFoxx:

looks like I'll be waiting another year or so then

[23:44:04]

sphery:

so since both quote a 3.5" color touchscreen, it seems the main difference is the aspect

[23:44:08]

GreyFoxx:

no colour = not for me

[23:44:15]

iamlindoro:

Wheeeeeeeeeeee another dupe

[23:44:19]

sphery:

color e-ink won't be around for a long time, probably

[23:44:32]

sphery:

so you'll have to wait for ultra-low-power LCD or something :(

[23:44:39]

sphery:

or better batteries :)

[23:44:43]

GreyFoxx:

yeah

[23:44:54]

sphery:

or a small fusion generator

[23:44:55]

GreyFoxx:

If all I wanted was books it would be fine

[23:45:14]

GreyFoxx:

but if I want images, news papers, magazines and online info sources then it's not worth it to me

[23:45:44]

sphery:

hey, before the 1950's, people got along just fine in a world without color...

[23:45:58]

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[23:46:02]

kormoc:

and then they had impure thoughts and suddenly it was all colorful

[23:46:13]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, but I'm not from before the 50's and I get a choice. Get it or not , so I'm making mine :)

[23:46:16]

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[23:47:52]

sphery:

iamlindoro: so what is happening with that allocine.pl re-ticketing thing?

[23:48:18]

iamlindoro:

who freakin knows

[23:48:19]

sphery:

I've been trying to figure out why it happens so often--but I've never seen it happen more than maybe 2 dups

[23:49:15]

sphery:

maybe the guy's just into numbers and he /really/ wants ticket #7500

[23:49:26]

sphery:

Or #9000

[23:49:44]

iamlindoro:

Let's hope it's not #9000 :)

[23:49:54]

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[23:49:55]

sphery:

so that's 4 dups so far, right?

[23:49:59]

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[23:50:04]

iamlindoro:

yep

[23:50:50]

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[23:52:48]

sphery:

iamlindoro: doesn't mythcommflag --video Wonder_Woman.m2ts also need a --rebuild argument?

[23:53:42]

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[23:55:31]

iamlindoro:

It *should* have, but it's not necessary AFAIK

[23:55:40]

iamlindoro:

I think it if lacks --rebuild it'll actually try to commflag

[23:55:45]

iamlindoro:

but will still rebuild too

[23:56:26]

iamlindoro:

just suggested that, though

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