| Monday, June 29th, 2009, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:14] | sphery: | "Show the program guide when starting Live TV" in EPG Settings (Program Guide 1/2) |
| [00:00:22] | cornell: | if my channels are like 5_7. And I'm watching live tv, and I want to got to... 5_7, do I enter 5_7? |
| [00:00:24] | juski: | jblack: unofficial plugins generally suck IMHO |
| [00:00:37] | sphery: | and aren't usually kept up-to-date with development |
| [00:00:51] | cornell: | sphery: is that mythtv-setup? |
| [00:00:57] | sphery: | cornell: no, frontend settings |
| [00:01:00] | cornell: | K |
| [00:01:06] | juski: | speaking of mythstream, wonder whatever happened to mythtube |
| [00:01:11] | sphery: | I used mythstream for a while, but found that it was annoyingly visual... |
| [00:01:37] | sphery: | since I used it to listen to 'net radio, it was annoying to have to turn on the TV (cycle the DLP bulb) just to listen to the radio. |
| [00:01:49] | juski: | and streaming radio support in mythmusic... nobody can claim it was due to developers yelling at em |
| [00:01:59] | sphery: | so, I wrote a shell script that just tunes in my net radio stations and devoted a single button to it on my remote |
| [00:02:30] | sphery: | (though that shell script has since grown large enough that I should have reimplemented it in a real language... :( ) |
| [00:02:32] | juski: | yeah when using net radio there's FA point in scrolling through the billions available |
| [00:03:07] | sphery: | I think the mythtube author is busy with school |
| [00:03:30] | cornell: | Cool, thanks |
| [00:04:07] | sphery: | it needs some fixes and the one guy who put in a lot of time on it didn't want to do all of them |
| [00:04:08] | cornell: | Now... that the heck is network "THIS"? Did that used to be Black Entertainment or whatever it was called? |
| [00:04:45] | sphery: | (and there may have been some issue with the site/something changing to make it so that the whole foundation doesn't work--trying to keep things like that out) |
| [00:04:55] | sphery: | cornell: They show tons of movies--lots of classic movies |
| [00:05:02] | sphery: | I've actually recorded a /lot/ from them |
| [00:05:12] | sphery: | Oh, and I'm talking "new classics", too :) |
| [00:05:16] | cornell: | Not BET. |
| [00:05:22] | sphery: | this |
| [00:05:28] | sphery: | it's an independent network |
| [00:05:53] | ^Phantom^ (^Phantom^!n=phantom@c-67-182-210-15.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [00:06:09] | sphery: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_TV |
| [00:06:18] | cornell: | Is there another name for it? SD doesn't have a "THIS" |
| [00:06:58] | sphery: | It's 18.2 in my lineup. :) |
| [00:07:09] | sphery: | it's just a subchannel of some other channel. |
| [00:07:28] | cornell: | 17.2 here |
| [00:07:41] | cornell: | Got an xmltvid? |
| [00:07:49] | ^Phantom^: | I'm still installing mythTV, so I have no questions yet, heh |
| [00:08:01] | sphery: | Yeah, my 18.1 is WKCFDT, so 18.2 (which is this) is WKCFDT2 |
| [00:08:10] | sphery: | for me, it's 62989 |
| [00:08:16] | juski: | installing before or after reading the docs? I smell fail |
| [00:08:33] | sphery: | don't know for sure if it will be the same for you--they may have differences across the nation |
| [00:08:36] | juski: | maybe I should have another shower |
| [00:09:01] | cornell: | I keep forgetting I'm not necesarily talking to Pennsylvanians ;-) |
| [00:09:28] | juski: | you want #mythtv-users-pennsylvania for that |
| [00:09:45] | cornell: | There is one? |
| [00:09:51] | juski: | lol |
| [00:09:57] | sphery: | cornell: If my TV antenna were picking up PA stations, I would probably have a much better signal for my local FL stations |
| [00:10:07] | cornell: | I guess I could just watch it for a while and see if I can catch the call signs |
| [00:10:19] | sphery: | best bet is to get the callsign of the main channel |
| [00:10:27] | sphery: | if it's 17.2, then find out what 17.1 is |
| [00:10:32] | cornell: | WPHL |
| [00:10:37] | sphery: | though, really, SD should show you 17.2, too |
| [00:10:40] | sphery: | (or 17–2) |
| [00:10:41] | cornell: | A Phillie station |
| [00:10:49] | sphery: | you are on the edit lineup page, right? |
| [00:11:04] | sphery: | Like this: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/XMLTV_ID |
| [00:11:15] | juski: | wonder which would be better in the long run.. air conditioner, or opening the bedroom window & installing a UV flying bug attractor/zapper |
| [00:11:28] | juski: | for a cheapskate, I mean.. |
| [00:12:05] | cornell: | For sd? Yeah something like that. A report of my line up with channel (a single number) xmltvid, call sign and name |
| [00:12:18] | sphery: | 879 TV recordings plus a ton of movies on DVD, and I can't decide what to watch. |
| [00:12:40] | cornell: | On mythweb, the callsigns don't necessarily correspond |
| [00:12:41] | juski: | tonight's Top Gear was very good :) |
| [00:12:56] | cornell: | And this is one of the black exploitation movies from the 70's |
| [00:13:00] | cornell: | Hard to watch ;-( |
| [00:13:08] | sphery: | cornell: yeah, callsigns are based on what's in the stream (if anything) or just channum if not |
| [00:13:12] | sphery: | hing |
| [00:13:47] | Led-Hed: | Anyone here run their Master Backend on a Virtual Machine? |
| [00:13:50] | sphery: | and channum may actually be made up if it's not in the stream |
| [00:14:26] | juski: | Heh, they can't even spell the guy's name & they call him their idol. Stupid people :-\ |
| [00:14:54] | sphery: | oh, yeah, I was going to watch the 2-part (due to a power blink) Virtuality movie from Fox (which disappointed reviewers/probably won't lead to the TV series the creators wanted) |
| [00:16:59] | cornell: | So, if ThisTV is not in the SD line up, does that constitute a problem that should be reported to them? |
| [00:17:15] | Dagmar: | Hah I'm about to watch that |
| [00:17:29] | Maliuta (Maliuta!n=scooby@kiev.lusan.id.au) has quit ("Leaving") | |
| [00:18:18] | juski: | well, if they don't know it needs adding to the lineup they likely won't add it :) |
| [00:19:13] | juski: | just found a gbpvr forum post stating that ThisTV is a new channel in SoCA & they'd just not got round to adding it so maybe there's some other catching up to do |
| [00:20:52] | cornell: | Ok, starting livetv with program guide seems to hang a bit sometimes, several minutes. |
| [00:22:30] | sphery: | cornell: yeah, if you've chosen the digital lineup and you get the channel and it's not there, report it with the button on the site |
| [00:23:29] | cornell: | I've gone through the SD report and the mythweb page, and assigned the xmltvid's I can recognize. Now I'm trying to work out the others. |
| [00:23:51] | cornell: | I've even built a spreadsheet pairing the two. |
| [00:25:05] | sphery: | good plan |
| [00:25:09] | sphery: | will be useful for next time |
| [00:25:17] | sphery: | (i.e. when you have to rescan for some reason) |
| [00:27:07] | ^Phantom^: | what why do i need mysql? |
| [00:27:36] | juski: | ^Phantom^: because mythtv is designed to use a mysql database |
| [00:27:41] | ^Phantom^: | >_< |
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| [00:28:56] | ^Phantom^: | eish |
| [00:29:02] | ^Phantom^: | all i want is the audio to work |
| [00:29:07] | juski: | *because using flat files for everything like settings, seek tables, data storage etc would suck :) |
| [00:29:21] | ^Phantom^: | tvtime shows the video, but doesn't play the audio.... |
| [00:29:47] | ** clever smells a frame grabber! ** | |
| [00:29:49] | juski: | wow we've had a few users in here tonight moaning stuff doesn't work without ever going into specifics – thereby preventing anyone helping them |
| [00:30:35] | ^Phantom^: | well, this isn't the support channel for tvtime, so i'll keep problems with that application out of here :D\ |
| [00:30:41] | juski: | generally the reason for framegrabber tuner cards not having working audio is that the user hasn't connected the audio loopthrough cable from the tuner card to their soundcard's line input |
| [00:30:56] | juski: | that or they didn't unmute the line input |
| [00:31:09] | clever: | and mythtv will have the same problem, until you fix the original cause |
| [00:31:11] | Dagmar: | Either way the root cause is that they couldn't be bothered to read the documentation on how to set them up |
| [00:31:15] | juski: | or they've not specified the correct module option for their TV tuner card |
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| [00:31:39] | juski: | *autodetection of tuner cards doesn't always work* |
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| [00:35:15] | cornell: | There's a Greek channel !!! |
| [00:35:32] | cornell: | Oh |
| [00:35:33] | Dagmar: | Yes. |
| [00:35:43] | Dagmar: | Is there some reason you thought Greeks wouldn't have a TV channel? |
| [00:35:56] | Dagmar: | Too busy running back and forth yelling "THIS IS SPARTA!" perhaps? |
| [00:36:00] | cornell: | I was going to say that it was just an insert, but the english voice went away. |
| [00:37:01] | cornell: | Dagmar, I'm in Reading, PA. English, yes, Spanish, yes... Vietnamese, maybe... and there is a fair number of Greeks. But enough for enough interest in a channel in Greek... I'm surprised. |
| [00:38:44] | cornell: | (There's actually an annual Greek festival, sponsored by one of the churches) |
| [00:41:15] | gregL (gregL!n=gregL@cpe-67-246-41-80.nycap.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [00:41:43] | cornell: | Now what do subchannnels mean... For example, I have channel 39, WLVT, it.s 39_1. Then there's V-Me, 39_2 and Create, 39_3. When I watch them, I note the V-Me and Create logos, as well as the 39 logo. |
| [00:42:08] | Dagmar: | ##-anything is a subchannel afaik |
| [00:42:08] | cornell: | So is the .... entity which is WLVT 39 also the provider of V-me and Create? |
| [00:42:13] | Dagmar: | Perhaps |
| [00:42:45] | cornell: | That is to say, _3 would not be from a different company, organization, than _4 |
| [00:43:23] | Dagmar: | There's no reason to make that assumption really |
| [00:44:36] | cornell: | Oh, ok |
| [00:45:55] | sphery: | this, for example, is a subchannel that's aired here under my CW station and aired in other areas as a subchannel under NBC and ... |
| [00:46:47] | sphery: | and it's a joint venture between MGM and Wiegel Broadcasting (a Chicago broadcaster)--which have nothing to do with CW |
| [00:48:58] | cornell: | Right, but CW is being brought in by a local affiliate, a guy, or group who owns/operates the facility. They could also choose to bring in ThisTV |
| [00:49:09] | cornell: | That's what I'm trying to get at. |
| [00:49:37] | sphery: | ah, yeah, at least in this case, the CW station contracted with this to air their content |
| [00:50:10] | cornell: | Speaking of CW, I just switched to it... WPSG-HD, it's supposed to be a Bill Murray film. |
| [00:50:14] | sphery: | WKCF has the license for the frequency, so AFAIUI, they decide what airs on it |
| [00:50:30] | sphery: | and, BTW, subchannels are just additional channels in the same 6MHz frequency block |
| [00:51:20] | cornell: | Billy Mays just died!? |
| [00:52:35] | sphery: | yeah |
| [00:52:46] | cornell: | The guy who does those commercials and infomercials... got off a plane and dropped dead. |
| [00:52:53] | cornell: | Bummer, bad wekk. |
| [00:52:55] | cornell: | week. |
| [00:53:06] | sphery: | so, this week, it was MJ, Ed McMahan, Billy Mays, (and was Farrah Fawcett this week, too)? |
| [00:53:09] | cornell: | Billy Mays, Farrah Fawcett... somebody else |
| [00:53:18] | cornell: | Ed was last week, I thought |
| [00:53:30] | sphery: | I heard 23rd |
| [00:54:30] | cornell: | Anyway, gotta go get the little... TTFN |
| [00:54:40] | cornell: | Thanks much guys, sphery, juski |
| [00:54:52] | sphery: | enjoy myth |
| [01:01:21] | sphery: | heh, nice misplaced rant by ^Phantom^ in #mythtv |
| [01:11:33] | juski: | guilty, as charged :D |
| [01:11:46] | ** juski goes to bed again in the hope of finding sleeeeep ** | |
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| [01:34:25] | wagnerrp: | are there any plans to make the new cover/fanart stuff in mythvideo random? |
| [01:34:36] | wagnerrp: | like have multiple images cycling, rather than one static one? |
| [01:34:59] | wagnerrp: | just wondering... due to the mass of images on tmdb and ttvdb |
| [01:38:42] | jblack: | tmdb.. ? |
| [01:38:55] | wagnerrp: | themoviedb, thetvdb |
| [01:40:09] | frankenstein (frankenstein!i=frankens@cpe-66-68-132-150.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [01:42:08] | frankenstein: | i have decided to build a mythtv setup, i have a motherboard and am going to begin purchase of the other needed hardware |
| [01:42:19] | wagnerrp: | what do you want to capture? |
| [01:42:28] | wagnerrp: | what type of mainboard |
| [01:42:29] | frankenstein: | one very basic question i have is do I need a agp card |
| [01:42:30] | wagnerrp: | onboard video? |
| [01:42:49] | frankenstein: | I want to capture broadcast signale |
| [01:42:51] | wagnerrp: | does your motherboard have an AGP slot? |
| [01:43:02] | frankenstein: | yes the board has a agp slot |
| [01:43:10] | wagnerrp: | then you need an AGP card |
| [01:43:12] | jblack: | I wonder if that machine would be fast enough |
| [01:43:28] | wagnerrp: | PCI *can* work for lower resolution |
| [01:43:38] | frankenstein: | its a 2.4 and can have up to 2gb ram |
| [01:43:44] | jblack: | I'm thinking about the processor that comes on a board with an agp slot. |
| [01:43:56] | jblack: | That puts him back in p1/p2 days. |
| [01:43:56] | wagnerrp: | but 720p is stretching things, and 1080p is right out the window |
| [01:44:02] | wagnerrp: | no it doesnt |
| [01:44:08] | wagnerrp: | most of the P4 generation used AGP |
| [01:44:21] | wagnerrp: | as did AthXPs and early Ath64s |
| [01:45:03] | wagnerrp: | however jblack makes a good point, if youre building a new mythbox, its better to just trash your old hardware and start from scratch |
| [01:45:11] | jblack: | Ok. frankenstein what kind of processor do you have on that board? |
| [01:45:17] | wagnerrp: | modern capable hardware can be had fairly cheaply |
| [01:45:38] | frankenstein: | 2.4 processor |
| [01:45:49] | wagnerrp: | a 2.4GHz P4 is going to be on the low end of decoding full bitrate ATSC |
| [01:45:56] | frankenstein: | ok |
| [01:45:59] | wagnerrp: | my 1.8 didnt even come close |
| [01:46:20] | wagnerrp: | however my 1.93 AthXP does just fine |
| [01:46:26] | wagnerrp: | so if someone asks you what you have |
| [01:46:31] | Led-Hed: | the E2200 does a fine job of decoding HD |
| [01:46:32] | wagnerrp: | you cant just say '2.4GHz processor' |
| [01:46:35] | wagnerrp: | that is meaningless |
| [01:47:09] | wagnerrp: | you have to give a speed and an architecture |
| [01:47:12] | Led-Hed: | ya a Pent4 2.4c is totally different than an E2220 |
| [01:47:20] | frankenstein: | oh ok, sorry |
| [01:47:33] | frankenstein: | pentium4 2.4ghz |
| [01:48:00] | wagnerrp: | even then, you have to be more specific |
| [01:48:18] | wagnerrp: | a 2.4 northwood is more powerful than a 2.4 prescott |
| [01:48:31] | wagnerrp: | and then the P4Ds trounce both of them at that clockrate |
| [01:50:16] | wagnerrp: | anyway, that P4 system will do fine for a backend |
| [01:50:42] | wagnerrp: | backends dont need a lot of power unless you want to do transcoding |
| [01:50:58] | frankenstein: | ok |
| [01:51:07] | wagnerrp: | but i would suggest buying new hardware if you want to play ATSC |
| [01:51:34] | wagnerrp: | you can build a fairly nice machine for <$200, or closer to $300 if you need to buy a case and power supply |
| [01:51:57] | wagnerrp: | generic cases are fairly cheap, but HTPC cases are still pretty pricey |
| [01:52:14] | frankenstein: | did not realize it could be built new for such a small amount |
| [01:52:36] | wagnerrp: | i upgraded my fe/sbe for $160 a couple months back |
| [01:52:53] | frankenstein: | as for the processor, i only know it is intel pent4 2.4 512/533 |
| [01:53:22] | wagnerrp: | new 2.6GHz low wattage AMD, motherboard with onboard GF8200, and 2GB of memory |
| [01:53:53] | Led-Hed: | you can build a HD capable Frontend for under $250 |
| [01:54:04] | wagnerrp: | (this is a HD capable frontend) |
| [01:54:16] | frankenstein: | what does "frontend" mean |
| [01:54:24] | wagnerrp: | well, that was just proc/board/memory/video |
| [01:54:30] | frankenstein: | I have more than average enduser computer knowledge |
| [01:54:32] | wagnerrp: | a full frontend you need at least a case and power supply |
| [01:54:46] | wagnerrp: | and possibly a hard drive |
| [01:54:55] | wagnerrp: | frontend and backend are mythtv terms |
| [01:55:07] | frankenstein: | will jsut need a motherboard and the cards |
| [01:55:24] | frankenstein: | i have a case, power supply and 1.5tb harddrive |
| [01:55:32] | wagnerrp: | if you dont know what those terms mean, you are not ready to purchase hardware |
| [01:55:45] | wagnerrp: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Executive_Overview |
| [01:56:07] | frankenstein: | thanks for the advice wgnerrp |
| [01:56:49] | frankenstein: | one think with the power supply is would have figure out if it has enough watts to run my xbox360 and the mythtv setup |
| [01:56:58] | Led-Hed: | I can do it withoug HDD for 200 |
| [01:57:09] | ** Led-Hed doesnt use HDD on frontends ** | |
| [01:57:15] | wagnerrp: | basically, you want to read through that page so you how mythtv works in general |
| [01:57:22] | wagnerrp: | that way you can plan out your system in advance |
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| [01:57:38] | wagnerrp: | rather than buy all the hardware, decide you want to set things up differently, and have to buy all new hardware |
| [01:58:04] | ** wagnerrp is not satisfied with case+psu for <$50 ** | |
| [01:59:26] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154084 |
| [01:59:45] | Led-Hed: | Does a fine job. Matches my Shelf System also |
| [02:00:22] | frankenstein: | thanks for the advice everyone, will most likely get back in touch here. I was introduced to mythtv by two friends here so will direct more to them |
| [02:00:30] | Led-Hed: | houses a E5200 w/ 1GB ram and a DVD |
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| [02:01:01] | wagnerrp: | im not too happy about spending that little on a power supply, and you want to toss in a case as well |
| [02:01:27] | wagnerrp: | besides, its somewhat of an awkward form factor |
| [02:01:39] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, at that size I dont have many options. My other cases are Full ATX Silverstones |
| [02:01:55] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, I bought it because of the form factor. :) |
| [02:02:01] | wagnerrp: | either im going to have this think sitting next to a bunch of AV equipment, and ill want it to match |
| [02:02:18] | wagnerrp: | or it will be next to a bare tv/monitor, and i probably want something small i can strap to the back of it |
| [02:02:32] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, agreed. That one just fits my Bedroom Shelf system like a glove |
| [02:03:10] | wagnerrp: | you have a mini-itx core2 board? those are pretty rare |
| [02:03:25] | Led-Hed: | Acer AspireRevo would fit behind a TV very well |
| [02:03:35] | wagnerrp: | i think ive only seen one or two zotacs that fit that description |
| [02:03:41] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, yup. Its a Zotac. Cost me $50 |
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| [02:03:59] | Led-Hed: | It also does HDMI Audio out of the DVI port |
| [02:04:20] | thedarkone: | nice led |
| [02:04:26] | Led-Hed: | thanks |
| [02:04:34] | thedarkone: | i have a htpc case |
| [02:04:43] | Led-Hed: | I have a few also. |
| [02:04:50] | Led-Hed: | Bought them ages ago. |
| [02:04:57] | thedarkone: | yeah one i got cost 289.00 |
| [02:06:01] | Led-Hed: | Silverstone LC03v |
| [02:06:35] | cornell: | Just recalled... my current lineup, from yesterday's scan goes up to 106.2... I thought I used to have higher than that, like 113.something. hm. |
| [02:06:43] | Led-Hed: | and a Silverstone LC01 with IR Window (RARE) |
| [02:06:45] | cornell: | Anyway, time to hit the rack... TTFN, thanks again |
| [02:06:46] | thedarkone: | no GMC Black Steel K-2 Ebony AZT-GMCK2-EB |
| [02:07:43] | Led-Hed: | Tower eh? |
| [02:07:53] | Led-Hed: | I like desktops |
| [02:08:05] | wagnerrp: | Led-Hed: ive actually been looking at the LC11 and LC19 |
| [02:08:47] | thedarkone: | yeah |
| [02:08:55] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, nice. Where are you gonna put the IR sensor? |
| [02:09:33] | Led-Hed: | LC11m is nice. I like VFD's |
| [02:09:35] | wagnerrp: | drill a new hole above the HD LED |
| [02:09:51] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, It just pains me to drill a new case. :) |
| [02:10:08] | wagnerrp: | nah, id get the version without the VFD |
| [02:10:13] | wagnerrp: | no need for one |
| [02:10:37] | Led-Hed: | wagnerrp, agreed. I just think it makes it look more appliance like |
| [02:10:45] | thedarkone: | well it is time for me to reformat my linux box |
| [02:10:46] | clever: | you could just remove the hdd led |
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| [02:11:00] | Led-Hed: | thedarkone, why's that? |
| [02:11:02] | wagnerrp: | and if i did get a 19, id be hacking up the back to add a custom cooling channel |
| [02:11:10] | Caliban (Caliban!n=ianmacd@jiskefet.caliban.org) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [02:11:19] | thedarkone: | can't get my sound to work |
| [02:11:21] | Led-Hed: | clever, true, but usually the hole is still too small |
| [02:11:26] | wagnerrp: | clever: didnt think about that... but yeah, i wouldnt have a hard drive in there, so no need for a light |
| [02:11:26] | thedarkone: | it don't wanta see it |
| [02:11:28] | Led-Hed: | thedarkone, this a frontend? |
| [02:11:33] | thedarkone: | both |
| [02:11:42] | thedarkone: | backend and front |
| [02:11:43] | clever: | Led-Hed: yeah it may be |
| [02:12:04] | Led-Hed: | clever, though if he was gonna drill anyway, it makes a great pilot hole! |
| [02:12:08] | clever: | :D |
| [02:12:42] | Led-Hed: | gotta go. later all. |
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| [02:13:05] | wagnerrp: | actually, i could probably do what i want with that 19 without any hacking |
| [02:15:31] | sphery: | so, yeah, Virtuality was a half an idea--not a movie--and they planned to give us the other half in the series it was supposed to spawn |
| [02:15:41] | sphery: | guess we'll never know the rest, now, though |
| [02:15:48] | wagnerrp: | cancelled? |
| [02:16:26] | sphery: | my understanding was that it was a movie, producers wanted it to turn to a series, but Fox put it in the death spot on Friday, and didn't get great reviews, so probably no series |
| [02:16:42] | Dagmar: | It's shit. |
| [02:17:01] | Dagmar: | Okay, well, at least the technology they're using in Virutality is laughable |
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| [02:17:28] | sphery: | I was there for the story |
| [02:17:37] | Dagmar: | 1. We do not accellerate manned spacecraft using the wake of atomic superbombs--it tends to leave hte inside of the craft covered with a thin coating of crew and hampers their performance. |
| [02:17:50] | sphery: | but they didn't give me enough story--just a bunch of questions |
| [02:18:47] | sphery: | and a 5-yr "near light-speed" ride to a star that's 10.5 light years away is quite amazing, too |
| [02:19:03] | wagnerrp: | well you know... its relativity |
| [02:19:09] | kormoc: | picky picky |
| [02:19:18] | wagnerrp: | near light speed, it would take them 20 years, but only seem like 5 to them |
| [02:20:17] | sphery: | but they mentioned that a 5-yr old kid would be in his teens when his Aunt returned |
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| [02:20:43] | sphery: | now if they had gone to Alpha Centauri, 5yrs would have worked |
| [02:20:51] | wagnerrp: | see, now theres another problem right there |
| [02:21:23] | wagnerrp: | you send a team on a advanced ship such as this to a system over 5 years away |
| [02:21:31] | wagnerrp: | and theyre only going to spend a short amount of time there? |
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| [02:21:46] | wagnerrp: | no... you send people onto something like that, its effectively a one-way trip |
| [02:21:48] | sphery: | well, the hotels were kind of expensive |
| [02:21:52] | wagnerrp: | they come back a couple decades later |
| [02:21:59] | wagnerrp: | if at all |
| [02:22:21] | sphery: | William Shatner tried to negotiate a deal, but Priceline wasn't a recognized corporation in their star system, so... |
| [02:22:24] | ** kormoc volunteers for a one way space trip ** | |
| [02:22:50] | ** kormoc holds up a 'Will wash dishes for zero g' sign ** | |
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| [02:26:19] | sphery: | well, if nothing else, watching it just to be able to delete the 2 pieces of the show (power outage) was worthwhile. |
| [02:26:31] | sphery: | my system seems cleaner, now |
| [02:26:48] | ** kormoc watches it now ** | |
| [02:27:20] | kormoc: | 128 oz of Gatorade and I'm still feeling icky... yay... |
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| [02:28:22] | Dagmar: | next time don't cut it with vodka |
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| [02:28:51] | kormoc: | Nah, all the alcohol was last night, and it was a nice mix of alcohols including everclear |
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| [02:29:16] | wagnerrp: | oof... evil stuff |
| [02:31:03] | sphery: | no Gatorade + Bacon Vodka? |
| [02:31:23] | kormoc: | not today :) |
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| [02:57:39] | phunyguy: | Bacon Vodka? |
| [02:57:46] | phunyguy: | what in the world... |
| [02:59:15] | kormoc: | Bakon! |
| [02:59:32] | wagnerrp: | no... what in the state of washington... |
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| [04:07:08] | kormoc: | sphery, Dagmar, Okay, so Virtuality gets a 'WTF?' from me |
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| [04:36:59] | Lexridge (Lexridge!n=lexridge@75.108.69.120) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [04:39:08] | Lexridge: | My mythtv database seems to be out of sync. ie, on one channel, it says Star Trek, which is correct, and the episode is correct as well, but the show description is for the Simpsons. What should I do? |
| [04:42:41] | wagnerrp: | out of curiosity, i decided to figure out just how much ive spent on computers in the last 8 years |
| [04:43:07] | wagnerrp: | rather surprising how high that number is... |
| [04:43:10] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: does that include cell phones and pdas as well? |
| [04:43:19] | wagnerrp: | disconcerting even |
| [04:43:33] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge: didnt think about those... but then thats only another $500 or so |
| [04:43:55] | Lexridge: | so, what's your number? |
| [04:44:08] | wagnerrp: | somewhere south of $8K |
| [04:44:18] | Lexridge: | yikes!!! |
| [04:46:24] | wagnerrp: | although better than a third of that has been on hard drives, drive controllers, and things to hold hard drives |
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| [04:46:55] | Lexridge: | In the past eight years, I have probably spent less than $4k, including monitors and home entertainment products. Probably less than $1k on computer specific equipment. |
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| [04:47:34] | Lexridge: | With my job, I do inherit lots of "junk" stuff after it's retired, saving me quite a bit. |
| [04:48:03] | wagnerrp: | i was going to say ive spent about $1K on each of my last three arrays |
| [04:48:08] | Lexridge: | a nice fringey :) |
| [04:48:57] | Lexridge: | I'm not running arrays here. Not a bad idea, I just still back up stuff the old fashioned way, external USB HDD units. |
| [04:49:19] | wagnerrp: | array != backup |
| [04:49:43] | psm321: | i've been thinking of building a new raid... any suggestions for good affordable sata cards? (dont need any raid functionality, i'm sticking with software raid) |
| [04:49:51] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: well, not really, but sort of....You are generally safe if you loose one drive within your array. |
| [04:50:15] | Lexridge: | If I loose one drive, I'm totally screwed |
| [04:50:36] | wagnerrp: | yeah, but ive i lose three, im considerably more screwed than you |
| [04:50:44] | Lexridge: | lol, no doubt!!! |
| [04:51:07] | psm321: | Lexridge: for your guide thing, are you doing EIT? i've seen stuff like that for the few days i was trying that |
| [04:51:08] | Lexridge: | odds are certainly against it however, but definetly not impossible. |
| [04:51:19] | wagnerrp: | no one wants to use EIT in the US |
| [04:51:27] | Lexridge: | psm: I do have EIT turned on, yes. |
| [04:51:31] | wagnerrp: | even if they think they want to, they really dont want to |
| [04:51:36] | Lexridge: | perhaps I should turn it off? |
| [04:51:39] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge is just fooling himself |
| [04:51:48] | psm321: | yeah, if you have an alternative source, turn it off :) |
| [04:52:06] | wagnerrp: | you never want to have two guide sources on one input source |
| [04:52:12] | Lexridge: | okay, will do! |
| [04:52:25] | wagnerrp: | and considering in the US, you have SD... theres no need for EIT |
| [04:52:52] | psm321: | unless youre really cheap or morally opposed to paying for guide data or soemthing |
| [04:52:53] | Lexridge: | I turned it on only because SD wasn't showing one station, which has since been resolved. |
| [04:54:17] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: I'm fooling myself about RAID, or EIT? |
| [04:54:57] | Lexridge: | sorry, the conversation got a little diluted. |
| [04:55:01] | wagnerrp: | EIT is only going to get you a couple hours, maybe a day at the most |
| [04:55:13] | wagnerrp: | SD will give you two weeks |
| [04:55:15] | Lexridge: | a few hours is what I am seeing |
| [04:55:32] | wagnerrp: | and using two separate sources is going to completely throw off the duplicate episode checking |
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| [04:55:54] | Lexridge: | I have turned EIT off. Thanks for the suggestion. |
| [04:56:17] | wagnerrp: | as for RAID, its great for redundancy against failure, but it is not a backup |
| [04:56:18] | psm321: | wagnerrp: i actually saw about 2 or 3 days on one channel |
| [04:56:29] | wagnerrp: | of course that raises the question, why do you need backups of recordings |
| [04:56:36] | wagnerrp: | psm321: in the US? |
| [04:56:40] | psm321: | yeah |
| [04:56:46] | psm321: | i dont remember what channel |
| [04:56:49] | psm321: | it was just one |
| [04:56:56] | wagnerrp: | probably a PBS affiliate |
| [04:57:06] | wagnerrp: | most stations will just provide the current show and the next |
| [04:58:07] | psm321: | i actually wonder why thats the case... does tribune pay them off or something? |
| [04:58:12] | Lexridge: | We provide about 5 hours worth, however, we download 24hrs at a time. My guess is the Adtec DTA3050 can be adjusted for how many hours it sends out. |
| [04:58:28] | Lexridge: | I will look into that. |
| [04:58:30] | wagnerrp: | they dont have to provide more, and people arent going to use it anyway |
| [04:58:32] | wagnerrp: | so why bother |
| [04:58:39] | psm321: | i mean they must know what theyre going to air |
| [04:58:46] | psm321: | just a hassle i guess? |
| [04:59:08] | Lexridge: | someone who wants to set a recording 11 hrs in advance might appreciate it. |
| [04:59:41] | wagnerrp: | Lexridge: do you care about people who record your shows, and very possibly skip past your commercials? |
| [04:59:59] | wagnerrp: | besides, most markets usually have a paper that provides a tv schedule |
| [05:00:05] | Lexridge: | Me? Hell no! The owners might however. lol |
| [05:00:07] | wagnerrp: | and you can always get a tvguide |
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| [05:00:57] | psm321: | what annoys me is RTN not giving anybody (including tribune) specific episode data |
| [05:01:08] | psm321: | which is a shame cuase they run a lot of shows i'm interested in |
| [05:01:12] | Lexridge: | after having been a subscriber to SD for so long, I will never buy another TVGuide., and haven't in years anyway. |
| [05:01:39] | Lexridge: | what is RTN? |
| [05:01:54] | psm321: | it might be called RTV, theyre juggling their name all the time |
| [05:01:58] | psm321: | retro |
| [05:02:18] | Lexridge: | ok |
| [05:02:45] | psm321: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro_Television_Network |
| [05:02:52] | Lexridge: | wagnerrp: I find that I watch commercials more now that they are in HD. |
| [05:03:28] | Lexridge: | I even get excited when I can actually read all the fine text print. lol |
| [05:03:53] | Lexridge: | psm321: Kinda like what TV Land used to be. |
| [05:04:25] | Lexridge: | does DISH have RTN? |
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| [05:05:34] | Lexridge: | psm321: Looks like financial troubles are probably the reason for lack of schedules. |
| [05:05:53] | Lexridge: | and custom feeds to various outlets. Makes it difficult. |
| [05:06:12] | Lexridge: | Probably a nightmare for TMS. |
| [05:09:48] | cposada: | My first post here at mythtv-users. I have a problem with MythWeb and MythVideo |
| [05:10:15] | cposada: | I keep getting an error that it can't find the file when trying to play a video from my Videos collection |
| [05:10:50] | cposada: | As I am new to Linux, I do not know if I have the symlink setup correctly or if there is a permissions issue. I'm lost |
| [05:14:10] | Lexridge: | can mythweb play videos from mythvideo? I didn't know you could do that. You can play video from recorded programs via mythweb, but don't think you can play "any" video via mythweb. |
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| [05:15:18] | cposada: | It will play the videos I have recorded via mythtv itself. Maybe I am assuming it can play the video on my other storage devices. |
| [05:15:45] | Lexridge: | I don't think it can. Not yet anyhow. |
| [05:15:50] | cposada: | It won't update the IMDB info either. I have changed imdb to tmdb though |
| [05:16:17] | Lexridge: | can't help you there. Never used that feature. |
| [05:16:22] | kormoc: | it's not hard to have it stream, it's just we wanted to wait until the backend sends us the files, as it could open a fairly large security hole otherwise |
| [05:17:55] | cposada: | So what's the point of showing you what videos you have if you can't do anything with them? |
| [05:18:42] | Lexridge: | kormoc: Perhaps one way to do this would be to do a general search for a user inputted title, and then choose from a list to add the proper data to mysql. Then, anything could be possible. |
| [05:19:00] | kormoc: | you can edit the meta data for them |
| [05:19:18] | wagnerrp: | kormoc: you can no longer download files through mythweb? |
| [05:19:35] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, Erm... I didn't know you could for mythvideo files |
| [05:20:03] | wagnerrp: | you used to... |
| [05:20:05] | kormoc: | Lexridge, any user submit data that leads to a file being opened and sent out could open up holes to things like exposing the /etc/shadow file, which would be bad |
| [05:20:23] | kormoc: | perhaps it's there and I forgot bout it |
| [05:20:34] | kormoc: | It's been awhile sense I last touched it |
| [05:22:55] | cposada: | Bottom of this page says that you can download files: http://www.implovate.com/insidemyth/mythvideo.html |
| [05:24:45] | ** kormoc wonders why that site would be considered more authortative then him. ** | |
| [05:25:17] | cposada: | I really don't care. I just want to know why this isn't working? |
| [05:25:27] | kormoc: | but in anycase, wagnerrp I did keep the feature, the title is the download |
| [05:25:29] | ** wagnerrp wonders why kormoc would be considered authoritative when he cant remember all 80k lines of his plugin ** | |
| [05:25:30] | wagnerrp: | :P |
| [05:25:37] | ** kormoc laughs ** | |
| [05:25:39] | kormoc: | touche! |
| [05:25:44] | kormoc: | Where's sphery to school me? ;) |
| [05:30:36] | wagnerrp: | time to try this 'export to mythvideo' script |
| [05:30:42] | wagnerrp: | hope it doesnt break too horribly |
| [05:35:23] | Lexridge: | kormoc: but would not the risk be the same when playing a file of the, say /video drive? Or does this have more to do with IMDB lookup? |
| [05:37:01] | cposada: | Here's a fine example of security: http://www.purecontent.org/mythweb/video |
| [05:37:13] | cposada: | Now if you click on any title you receive an error message: |
| [05:37:28] | cposada: | the title in the blue boxes not on the side bar |
| [05:37:41] | wagnerrp: | hahaha |
| [05:38:03] | kormoc: | Lexridge, there's no way in mythweb to add in a recording directly to the db, but if you change the settings to include /etc and to show unsupported files and then scan, you have download links to them all |
| [05:38:07] | wagnerrp: | well... you can pretty easily find other mythweb users with a google search |
| [05:38:23] | wagnerrp: | we tell people to password lock their web sites from external access |
| [05:38:27] | wagnerrp: | but people still dont |
| [05:38:34] | mgisbers_away is now known as mgisbers | |
| [05:38:59] | cposada: | yes. But I have the issue as described above. Is this supposed to be this way? Am I and this security aware user just setting something up wrong? |
| [05:39:19] | kormoc: | what's your problem exactly? |
| [05:39:25] | wagnerrp: | the above issue is because you do not have the files mounted in the proper place |
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| [05:39:34] | wagnerrp: | or you do not have them symlinked into the webroot properly |
| [05:40:00] | cposada: | The link above shows a page just linke mine with videos being listed, not from mythtv recordings, but xvid, or flv, or whatever files. |
| [05:40:28] | cposada: | Is there a feature that allows you to view them from MythWeb or that just down;t work. |
| [05:40:41] | cposada: | I can click the title and receive an error |
| [05:41:16] | kormoc: | that's a download and as wagnerrp said, it's because the created symlink is wrong or permissions, check your apache error logs for more information |
| [05:41:19] | cposada: | Ok. Thank you wagnerrp |
| [05:41:39] | cposada: | Here's where I have problems. |
| [05:41:58] | cposada: | How do I correct the symlink and what am I looking for in the apache logs |
| [05:42:30] | cposada: | I tried fixing the symlink with this: cd /var/www/mythweb/data/ |
| [05:42:32] | cposada: | sudo rm ./video |
| [05:42:34] | cposada: | sudo ln -s <Path to Videos> ./video |
| [05:42:36] | cposada: | sudo rm ./video_covers |
| [05:42:37] | cposada: | sudo ln -s <Path to Video Covers> ./video_covers |
| [05:42:39] | cposada: | Is this right? |
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| [05:43:08] | cposada: | I also chmod'd with 766 for the above folders |
| [05:43:19] | ** kormoc raises an eyebrow at 766 ** | |
| [05:43:33] | cposada: | Why? Too much? |
| [05:43:45] | wagnerrp: | '6' is worthless for a directory |
| [05:44:02] | wagnerrp: | you can delete it, but you cant actually use it |
| [05:44:03] | cposada: | 6 is read/write? |
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| [05:44:23] | wagnerrp: | you need execute rights to 'cd' into a directory |
| [05:44:25] | kormoc: | but for directories, and sub directories, you need +x to enter |
| [05:44:27] | cposada: | OK! What an idiot I am? |
| [05:44:44] | cposada: | Gotcha! |
| [05:45:14] | wagnerrp: | looks like this guy is a british user |
| [05:45:21] | kormoc: | cposada, this is why typically you'd likely do chmod -R a+rw or what not rather then directly doing the permission in numbers |
| [05:46:39] | wagnerrp: | so what should i record for a warning to lock down their web server? |
| [05:46:49] | wagnerrp: | teletubbies? lazytown? |
| [05:46:56] | wagnerrp: | maybe some judge judy |
| [05:47:07] | kormoc: | Custom schedule for %? |
| [05:47:28] | wagnerrp: | yeah, just record a couple minutes with the comment, 'see this page on the wiki...' |
| [05:47:45] | wagnerrp: | power rangers jungle fury! |
| [05:48:00] | cposada: | kormoc: So what the above means is "change/modify on a directory for all users and give read write? |
| [05:48:07] | kormoc: | yes |
| [05:48:15] | cposada: | kormoc: cool |
| [05:48:17] | wagnerrp: | 8am on channel 16032, that sounds like a winner |
| [05:48:53] | kormoc: | So how did you guys find this? |
| [05:49:18] | wagnerrp: | seems you cant add a 'description', disappointing |
| [05:49:40] | kormoc: | Ahh, it's 0.21-fixes not trunk |
| [05:49:57] | kormoc: | I should backport the lockdown to 0.21 fixes |
| [05:49:59] | Shadow__X: | wouldnt allintitle:"MythWeb – Recorded Programs" be the right parameters to find mythweb sites google has found |
| [05:50:01] | Shadow__X: | or am i mistaken |
| [05:50:30] | Shadow__X: | i am trying ti figure out parameters wise |
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| [05:50:54] | kormoc: | allintitle:"Welcome to MythWeb!" |
| [05:51:04] | cposada: | "welcome to mythweb" works great |
| [05:51:14] | Shadow__X: | ah i was close |
| [05:51:18] | Shadow__X: | thanks kormoc |
| [05:52:06] | wagnerrp: | the subtitle doesnt seem to have taken effect |
| [05:52:36] | wagnerrp: | nevermind, it did |
| [05:52:44] | wagnerrp: | oh! |
| [05:52:54] | wagnerrp: | seems someone has already recorded something else before i got to it |
| [05:54:02] | clever: | damn is vdpau ever nice, 0% cpu usage while playing relatively high res 264! |
| [05:54:42] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +b %*!*@mctnnbsa53w-142162117102.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net | |
| [05:54:43] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp,someone did what i wanted to and added cpu tem to their mythstatus page |
| [05:54:45] | Shadow__X: | damn them |
| [05:54:52] | kormoc: | whoops |
| [05:54:56] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -b %*!*@mctnnbsa53w-142162117102.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net | |
| [05:55:00] | kormoc: | wrong button |
| [05:55:04] | Shadow__X: | clever,whoa you have something that will do vdpau |
| [05:55:09] | wagnerrp: | wrong button? |
| [05:55:16] | clever: | Shadow__X: yes, my d630 laptop |
| [05:55:18] | wagnerrp: | you have a button to ban people? |
| [05:55:19] | kormoc: | yeah, I went to hit ignore and hit my quiet button |
| [05:55:21] | kormoc: | yes |
| [05:55:32] | Shadow__X: | heh very agresssive there kormoc |
| [05:55:33] | clever: | lol |
| [05:55:34] | kormoc: | and oh is it tempting |
| [05:55:54] | wagnerrp: | interesting... heres one with no recordings |
| [05:55:55] | clever: | i havent been using vdpau much because the / is shared with other boxes |
| [05:56:04] | wagnerrp: | and the last livetv listed was from 13 months ago |
| [05:56:13] | clever: | and the vdpau gl libs break shit on systems that lack sse, even when they dont use gl |
| [05:56:46] | wagnerrp: | you have systems without sse support? |
| [05:56:53] | clever: | my master backend:P |
| [05:56:55] | JYA: | is there any processors less than 10 y.o without SSE support ? |
| [05:57:13] | wagnerrp: | !trout clever progress |
| [05:57:13] | ** MythLogBot slaps clever with a progress trout on behalf of wagnerrp... ** | |
| [05:57:21] | clever: | wagnerrp: mythbackend loads the GL libs, and the 180 beta ones, will exit(1) if they cant find sse, so the backend wont even work |
| [05:57:48] | clever: | which is a little f*cked up, since it never uses gl, and doesnt even have a nvidia board, and mythbackend never even tryes to connect to X |
| [05:57:53] | kormoc: | JYA, rather then get a job and be a adult, clever leeches off of his parents and thus has only computers given away for free |
| [05:58:28] | clever: | JYA: its a P2 400mhz for my master be, poor but it works |
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| [05:58:56] | JYA: | kormoc: what are you talking about ? |
| [05:59:24] | kormoc: | JYA, in short, yes, all of clever's computers are very old |
| [05:59:29] | JYA: | your P2/400 is enough for a frontend ? |
| [05:59:36] | JYA: | ah, i see :) |
| [05:59:38] | wagnerrp: | backend |
| [05:59:55] | JYA: | SSE is 10 years old, but I was thinking MMX when I posted |
| [05:59:56] | clever: | ive used the P2 as a frontend also, but it bearly handles it |
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| [06:00:13] | clever: | kormoc: except the one i'm using vdpau on:P |
| [06:00:18] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp, yeah there are some interesting ones |
| [06:00:55] | JYA: | why would you install VDPAU / Onvidia OpenGL libs on a backend with a P2 anyway. |
| [06:01:24] | clever: | JYA: the backend with a P2 shares the root filesystem with the vdpau laptop |
| [06:01:36] | JYA: | I can't think of any ISA VDPAU compatible video cards :) |
| [06:01:37] | clever: | so when i installed them on the laptop, i indirectly installed them on every system |
| [06:01:47] | clever: | the P2 has PCI |
| [06:02:01] | JYA: | woohoo! |
| [06:02:46] | wagnerrp: | because running separate NFS roots for such disparate machines would be madness |
| [06:02:50] | clever: | but recently i was using a gentoo root without the whole network, so i reinstalled the 185 drivers and got it fully working |
| [06:03:08] | clever: | wagnerrp: its a binary distro, so those seperate roots wont be too much different |
| [06:03:23] | clever: | it would be a whole other story if i used something like gentoo and compiled it to fit the cpu perfectly |
| [06:03:32] | clever: | which i have started |
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| [06:04:19] | clever: | but i got stuck with the gentoo kernel, it cant access the pata drives for some odd reason |
| [06:04:57] | wagnerrp: | probably due to an old controller not enabled by default in the .config |
| [06:05:07] | clever: | wagnerrp: i enabled every damn controler:P |
| [06:05:24] | clever: | including the exact one that works in another copy of gentoo |
| [06:07:38] | clever: | libata 156588 5 ata_piix,ahci,pata_amd,pata_oldpiix,pata_mpiix |
| [06:07:48] | clever: | currently loaded drivers, for the d630 laptop |
| [06:09:35] | clever: | thats strange...., i cant find them in the /lib/modules for the broken gentoo... |
| [06:12:48] | wagnerrp: | well this is disappointing |
| [06:13:03] | wagnerrp: | im getting some pathetic speeds off one of my recording drives |
| [06:13:16] | clever: | failing? |
| [06:13:21] | wagnerrp: | like 3MB/s, and the system says the disk is under full load |
| [06:13:26] | clever: | ouch |
| [06:13:35] | Shadow__X: | thats like clever speeds |
| [06:13:38] | Shadow__X: | wow |
| [06:13:38] | clever: | reminds me of when i was using 40 wire pata cables |
| [06:14:15] | Shadow__X: | wagnerrp,i got that on a failing 2.5 drive that got those speeds |
| [06:14:48] | Shadow__X: | i am off gn guys |
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| [06:15:22] | wagnerrp: | well now its bouncing between 2MB/s and 30MB/s |
| [06:15:31] | clever: | wagnerrp: sata or pata? |
| [06:15:56] | wagnerrp: | sata, wonder if im getting fragmentation or something |
| [06:16:27] | clever: | filefrag and /proc/sys/vm/block_dump can help to see that |
| [06:16:36] | wagnerrp: | wont help a bit |
| [06:16:40] | clever: | ? |
| [06:17:03] | wagnerrp: | considering those faculties dont exist |
| [06:17:21] | clever: | cant install filefrag for an hour to have a peek? |
| [06:18:08] | wagnerrp: | nope |
| [06:18:12] | clever: | why not? |
| [06:18:22] | wagnerrp: | not available to be installed |
| [06:18:55] | clever: | ah:(, what distro? |
| [06:19:08] | wagnerrp: | distro? no distro |
| [06:19:26] | clever: | lol, custom? |
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| [06:20:19] | wagnerrp: | very much stock, im even running the generic kernel |
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| [06:26:27] | juski: | heh I get pathetic inter-device copy speeds on my new sata HDDs |
| [06:26:50] | juski: | hdparm say no, eet eez fast! |
| [06:27:21] | wagnerrp: | the problem is that i normally get like 40–50MB/s |
| [06:30:16] | clever: | iostat -x 30 |
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| [06:32:31] | wagnerrp: | 'gstat' does largely the same thing, but with a bit of color |
| [06:32:35] | clever: | wagnerrp: with the right flags, that can tell you the current in/out on every drive/partition at once |
| [06:33:10] | clever: | with my system under cripplign ammounts of swapping, sdd is at 100% util |
| [06:33:49] | clever: | what package is that in? |
| [06:34:00] | wagnerrp: | none, comes on the default install |
| [06:34:12] | clever: | not on gentoo |
| [06:34:20] | clever: | and not on ubuntu either |
| [06:34:27] | wagnerrp: | no it wouldnt |
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| [06:35:11] | wagnerrp: | its the stats tool for gvinum |
| [06:35:30] | wagnerrp: | or geom, rather |
| [06:35:47] | wagnerrp: | gvinum is just the volume manager based off the geom disk subsystem |
| [06:35:52] | clever: | ah |
| [06:36:01] | clever: | part of freebsd |
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| [06:36:44] | clever: | explains why i dont have it on my systems |
| [06:38:33] | juski: | it needing more than 16MB of system RAM would explain that :P |
| [06:39:32] | clever: | ive not actualy run into a system with too little ram for linux |
| [06:39:41] | clever: | my bigest blocker was a missing floating point core |
| [06:39:46] | juski: | that |
| [06:40:01] | juski: | that's generally the problem with linux. it lowers people's expectations :) |
| [06:40:28] | clever: | i ran it without a problem on my 50mhz laptop with 20mb of ram |
| [06:40:48] | clever: | it was so damn slow that it couldnt decode MP3 in realtime! |
| [06:40:51] | juski: | so on linux ML, we see dumb questions like "what's the minimum I can get away with" whereas seemingly on windows forums people post daft specs & then ask if it's enough :P |
| [06:40:56] | wagnerrp: | how do i write a mysql 'where' clause with 'and' and 'or' options? |
| [06:41:29] | kormoc: | WHERE (X AND Y AND Z) OR (P AND Q AND T) |
| [06:41:31] | wagnerrp: | something like ( this && this && ( this || this ) ) |
| [06:41:36] | clever: | wagnerrp: SELECT * FROM table WHERE foo AND (bar OR baz); |
| [06:41:42] | wagnerrp: | just put them in parentheses? |
| [06:41:44] | kormoc: | yes |
| [06:41:51] | clever: | depends on what order you want to force |
| [06:41:56] | juski: | some things really are that simple :) |
| [06:42:07] | wagnerrp: | juski: indeed it is |
| [06:42:59] | wagnerrp: | i suppose an cast member would fall under any of actor/guest_star/host/commentator/guest |
| [06:43:33] | juski: | anybody not part of 'the crew' or production staff I guess |
| [06:43:35] | clever: | WHERE 'actorname' IN (field1,field2,field3) |
| [06:44:06] | juski: | unless you want to add lots more columns to the db :) |
| [06:44:08] | clever: | that feature is usualy used the other way arround, but this example looks valid |
| [06:44:35] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, what are you after? |
| [06:44:39] | wagnerrp: | well those are optional 'role's in the credits table |
| [06:44:52] | wagnerrp: | trying to decide what to pull into the videocast table |
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| [06:47:04] | juski: | I thought videocast just stored references & the actual names were stored elsewhere |
| [06:47:05] | kormoc: | wagnerrp, just so you know, you can do that in one sql statement too, no need to script process it |
| [06:47:20] | kormoc: | juski, nah, that's credits, videocast is mythvideo's |
| [06:47:36] | kormoc: | just a list |
| [06:47:46] | wagnerrp: | well credits stores references to people |
| [06:48:00] | juski: | wonder why the mixture |
| [06:48:08] | wagnerrp: | videovast stores references to videometadatacast |
| [06:48:13] | wagnerrp: | or it might be the other way around |
| [06:48:34] | kormoc: | other way around |
| [06:48:41] | juski: | db gurus would have everything relational, linked wossnames all over the shop |
| [06:48:48] | wagnerrp: | anyway, im sure that would be an absolutely horrendous sql statement |
| [06:48:51] | kormoc: | nah |
| [06:48:56] | juski: | personally I can't see the point |
| [06:49:02] | kormoc: | GROUP_CONCAT is a peice of cake |
| [06:49:18] | wagnerrp: | and besides, the second half of that (inserting into videocast) is already built into the python bindings |
| [06:49:20] | kormoc: | or just a INSERT INTO SELECT FROM if you wanted to get fancy :) |
| [06:49:31] | kormoc: | ahh, fair 'nuff |
| [06:49:43] | wagnerrp: | i might add in the 'get cast' stuff, and do away with the first half as well |
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| [07:20:18] | wagnerrp: | well one file worked... lets try a second |
| [07:21:12] | Dibblah: | Oh, wow. Free money – Someone's offered a whole $50 for an implementation of Mythfrontend on the Wii. |
| [07:21:17] | Dibblah: | </sarcasm> |
| [07:22:00] | wagnerrp: | oh, if only you could develop unlicensed channels |
| [07:22:05] | ** juski opens an editor & writes 5 lines. There. Now gimme my $50 already ** | |
| [07:22:16] | Dibblah: | wagnerrp: You can. |
| [07:22:27] | wagnerrp: | for un-hacked wiis? |
| [07:22:31] | juski: | somebody's been at the home brew :D |
| [07:22:32] | Dibblah: | Yes and no. |
| [07:22:39] | Dibblah: | Mostly yes, now. |
| [07:22:53] | Dibblah: | Unhacked meaning no hardware mods. |
| [07:22:57] | wagnerrp: | they mostly dont work, mostly |
| [07:22:58] | juski: | you need to install the homebrew channel, by exploiting erm.. a savegame exploit :) |
| [07:23:05] | Dibblah: | Nope. |
| [07:23:25] | Dibblah: | There's an exploit available for a bare IOS 4 machine. |
| [07:23:38] | Dibblah: | No games required. |
| [07:23:39] | juski: | thought that was how all the homebrew worked |
| [07:23:55] | Dibblah: | Something to do with the SD channel. |
| [07:24:43] | Dibblah: | wagnerrp: They do work just fine. |
| [07:24:47] | juski: | I've no interest in running warez or homebrew junk on our wii, so didn't dig too deep into it |
| [07:25:02] | Dibblah: | Unfortunately, mythfrontend doesn't have a small enough memory footprint, really. |
| [07:25:10] | Dibblah: | So it'd be a custom thing. |
| [07:25:12] | wagnerrp: | well thats unfortunate... no way for my script to export 'the office', because its listed as '...(US)' on ttvdb |
| [07:25:22] | juski: | oo so write a whole new frontend app for $50? |
| [07:25:27] | Dibblah: | Yup. |
| [07:25:35] | juski: | I'll get right on it! |
| [07:25:42] | Dibblah: | Sorry – I was wrong – $54.76 |
| [07:25:51] | wagnerrp: | on hardware that can do standard definition at best! |
| [07:25:54] | Dibblah: | There's been a couple of other contributors. |
| [07:26:11] | juski: | lovely to see people value folks time so highly |
| [07:26:16] | Dibblah: | Indeed. |
| [07:26:24] | Dibblah: | That'd be 2 hours for me. |
| [07:26:35] | juski: | tantamount to NOT EVEN A PAT ON THE HEAD |
| [07:26:51] | Dibblah: | http://www.fossfactory.org/project/p102 |
| [07:27:23] | Dibblah: | I love how people who haven't even got a clue how to do it write things like "I'm willing to pay $50 for this program to save me the trouble of doing it myself. " |
| [07:27:49] | wagnerrp: | does the wii have any sort of hardware decoding? |
| [07:27:58] | wagnerrp: | or would it all have to be done on that broadway? |
| [07:27:58] | Dibblah: | No. |
| [07:28:24] | wagnerrp: | so the whole project is worthless before its even started |
| [07:28:37] | juski: | don't be silly, you can leverage the 3D hardware to do it. Because if you can write a whole FE for $50 you're capable of anything |
| [07:29:01] | juski: | wagnerrp: like most feature requests really ;) |
| [07:29:11] | Dibblah: | The 3d hardware doesn't (AFAIK) do shaders. |
| [07:29:11] | wagnerrp: | as seen by how well those rascals programming on SPEs are doing with their video library |
| [07:30:39] | Dibblah: | That's PS3 – Which is a rather different platform ;) |
| [07:31:39] | wagnerrp: | im saying implementing your own video output and decoding library on a big vector unit (like a 3D chip) is not a trivial procedure |
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| [07:32:04] | juski: | ROFL. The whole bounty goal is less than $500 ffs |
| [07:32:20] | Dibblah: | I'm saying that there is no GP vector unit. |
| [07:32:24] | Dibblah: | It's all fixed path. |
| [07:32:45] | wagnerrp: | so you couldnt do anything even if you wanted to? |
| [07:32:47] | juski: | your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to write a whole media player which can integrate with a mythtv backend in 10 hours or less |
| [07:33:34] | wagnerrp: | dun dun dan den dun dun doon doon dun dun... |
| [07:34:37] | wagnerrp: | notes dont travel through IRC very well |
| [07:34:48] | wagnerrp: | on this end, that was a flawless reproduction of the theme song |
| [07:35:15] | juski: | wagnerrp: I got a burst of 'Devil's Gallop' at this end |
| [07:40:51] | juski: | hrm. decided it's time to treat myself to a mobile broadband PAYG dongle |
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| [07:44:41] | Dibblah: | You still have a job, then? |
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| [07:45:35] | juski: | aye |
| [07:45:43] | wagnerrp: | i want to know just WTF this drive is doing |
| [07:45:50] | juski: | not much actual work to do though |
| [07:46:10] | wagnerrp: | because everything the system is saying is that its transferring at 50–60MB/s |
| [07:46:44] | juski: | encrippledfs ? |
| [07:47:31] | wagnerrp: | zfs, not encrypted |
| [07:48:57] | juski: | meh. " |
| [07:48:57] | juski: | Search in progress... |
| [07:49:00] | juski: | INSERT statement conflicted with TABLE CHECK constraint 'CHK_cstCorporate_coCorporateType_coCorporateSubType'" |
| [07:49:28] | juski: | looks like I won't be getting my '3' mobile dongle for free, then (£4.99 delivery) |
| [07:59:50] | juski: | or maybe I will. page I bookmarked yesterday was the account creation part of the site which has since changed |
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| [08:06:09] | juski: | WTF? card transaction page on this site isn't even https |
| [08:06:40] | clever: | :O |
| [08:06:59] | juski: | it's in a frame. Looks very dodgy |
| [08:07:32] | clever: | run away! |
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| [08:35:35] | juski: | got a fiver on a prepaid debit card. should be safe enough |
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| [08:41:53] | gbee: | don't quite see how some of these PAYG mobile broadband offers are really any different from a monthly contract since the unused credit usually expires after 30 days |
| [08:43:59] | juski: | they vary |
| [08:44:16] | juski: | t-mobile do some good deals & any dongle can be unlocked :) |
| [08:44:54] | deaman (deaman!n=dean@3.79-160-162.customer.lyse.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [08:44:55] | juski: | apparently you can also buy an iPhone sim for pennies, put £10 on it & get unlimited interwebs for 12 months |
| [08:45:02] | juski: | or til O2 cotton onto you |
| [08:45:26] | stuarta (stuarta!n=stuarta@unaffiliated/stuarta) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [08:45:26] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta | |
| [08:46:25] | juski: | gbee: cheapest way to go is to buy a normal PAYG SIM & add bolt-ons :) |
| [08:46:31] | gbee: | hmm, started to give it some thought on holiday since I couldn't find any free wi-fi in Scotland and I refuse to pay £5 an hour for something that costs as little as £9 a month in the home |
| [08:46:35] | juski: | as opposed to 'mobile broadband' |
| [08:47:07] | juski: | only snag is that way needs the dongle to be unlocked, but that can be cheap or free |
| [08:47:22] | stuarta: | morning all |
| [08:47:29] | gbee: | morning |
| [08:47:32] | juski: | morning :) |
| [08:48:17] | juski: | not something I'll be using much but it'll come in handy |
| [08:48:41] | juski: | certainly better than being stuck with GPRS on my phone |
| [08:48:44] | stuarta: | the downside to coding areas of myth that need a tv signal is you can't do any decent work on a train |
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| [08:57:57] | juski: | here we go. top up with £5 on Three, pay £5 for 30 days internet access, or 50p per day, 2.50 per week. no expiry on the £5 topup if you never use it for voice calls/SMS |
| [08:58:40] | juski: | seems stupid how mobile broadband is more expensive on dedicated modems than it would be pairing a 3G phone with a laptop over bluetooth |
| [08:58:59] | stuarta: | not really |
| [08:59:03] | stuarta: | main users are business |
| [08:59:22] | juski: | money for old rope |
| [08:59:24] | stuarta: | exec who say "i don't give a crap how much it costs, i need net access on the move" |
| [08:59:28] | stuarta: | execs |
| [08:59:39] | stuarta: | so they jack the price |
| [08:59:46] | juski: | so just unlock yer dongle to take a regular phone SIM and voila :) |
| [09:00:08] | juski: | now all I need is a netbook or summink |
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| [09:29:06] | juski: | wonder if now is a good time to announce a new theme |
| [09:29:49] | juski: | I've not actually done any work on it other than some pencil sketches I scanned into a pdf, and I'll be looking for a bounty to hire somebody to do all the work |
| [09:30:53] | wagnerrp: | is that to go along with your new smartphone interface? |
| [09:31:32] | juski: | smartphone? nah, I've made a sketch of a mind-control interface already |
| [09:33:07] | ** juski points at the picture of a tinfoil hat with curly wires protruding from it ** | |
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| [09:38:43] | Dibblah: | stuarta: And that's where a fake DVB setup would be very handy :( |
| [09:39:00] | stuarta: | with lots of eit data |
| [09:39:26] | Dibblah: | Whatever you like – Carousel the mpeg files. |
| [09:40:22] | Dibblah: | Or a DVB-t stick and a very slow train. |
| [09:40:54] | juski: | aren't they all very slow still? |
| [09:41:35] | Dibblah: | Compared to the footprint of a standard mux, no. |
| [09:41:46] | stuarta: | not really, takes me 40mins to go half way to southampton |
| [09:41:49] | juski: | ahh here's the purveyor of weekly good news & carrot dangling come to spread joy |
| [09:42:06] | stuarta: | however, can't even get a decent mobile signal on that train |
| [09:42:15] | Dibblah: | gbee's here, you mean? ;) |
| [09:42:17] | stuarta: | so i've bugger all change of decent tv signal |
| [09:42:49] | juski: | dan dan daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Who will find out whether they stay or go today.. the people on the 30 day list, the folks on the 60 day list or those on the 90 day list.. or none of the above? |
| [09:43:14] | jduggan: | eh |
| [09:43:28] | jduggan: | are they cutting jobs @ your place? :\ |
| [09:43:36] | juski: | oh, the 30 day ones will be updated same time next week to find out whether or not they're officially official |
| [09:43:46] | juski: | just like they've said for the last 3 weeks |
| [09:43:55] | juski: | dangle dangle dangle! |
| [09:44:18] | juski: | jduggan: totally. Well, not like _totally_ but a good number of em |
| [09:45:35] | superdump: | does anyone have any instructions for setting up the upnp server |
| [09:45:36] | superdump: | ? |
| [09:45:47] | superdump: | there isn't much on the upnp page about configuration |
| [09:45:48] | juski: | erm.. setting up? |
| [09:45:49] | stuarta: | there isn't any setup |
| [09:45:59] | superdump: | well it isn't seen by my 360 |
| [09:46:08] | stuarta: | that'll be a bug |
| [09:46:12] | juski: | if you want it to be exposed on your network you need to run the backend on an IP address which isn't 127.0.0.1 |
| [09:46:21] | stuarta: | although i'd suggest trying head |
| [09:46:36] | superdump: | i'm using head |
| [09:46:54] | juski: | if you run mythbackend bound to 127.0.0.1 you won't be able to see the upnp server anywhere :) |
| [09:47:07] | Dibblah: | Do you have a router between your MBE and 360? |
| [09:47:11] | superdump: | ah |
| [09:47:13] | superdump: | no |
| [09:47:27] | superdump: | that's kind of weird juski, but ok |
| [09:47:29] | Dibblah: | Yeah, it's what juski said, then. |
| [09:47:34] | juski: | not weird at all |
| [09:47:38] | superdump: | can i use the lan ip of this machine? |
| [09:47:47] | stuarta: | that would be a good idea |
| [09:47:49] | juski: | you SHOULD use the LAN IP of the backend machine |
| [09:47:53] | juski: | sheesh |
| [09:48:10] | juski: | no point trying to bind it to the IP address of a different box, innit |
| [09:48:15] | superdump: | :) |
| [09:48:48] | superdump: | well, yes |
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| [09:50:16] | superdump: | ok, let's see... |
| [09:50:28] | janneg: | Dibblah: it shouldn't be that hard to implement that with dvbloopback |
| [09:51:01] | Dibblah: | For a coder, yes. For me... It would appear to be unlikely to happen. :( |
| [09:51:24] | Dibblah: | And besides, I really don't want to give a "good" reason for using that. |
| [09:52:09] | janneg: | I would like to give a good reason to merge dvbloopback into the kernel |
| [09:52:40] | superdump: | yes, that fixed it |
| [09:52:41] | superdump: | thanks |
| [09:53:47] | Dibblah: | janneg: I don't think that'll happen, for various reasons. |
| [09:57:02] | superdump: | is it possible to specify multiple directories in which myth should look for music, but only one for storage of music when ripping cds or so? |
| [09:57:11] | superdump: | it doesn't look like it is |
| [09:59:27] | juski: | you're right |
| [09:59:45] | juski: | course, you could always combine dirs into one with symlinks |
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| [10:05:31] | laga_ is now known as laga | |
| [10:07:17] | Dibblah: | Symlinks? Symlinks? You seem to be suggesting the simplest option! UnionFS on top of CacheFS on top of ZFS is of course the recommended solution. |
| [10:07:28] | ** stuarta chuckles ** | |
| [10:07:45] | ** sid3windr giggles ** | |
| [10:08:13] | juski: | or just go home & use mediaportal & save us all a headache :P |
| [10:11:26] | superdump: | there's no need to be mean, just sorting a few things out to test them so i can document them in this report i'm writing |
| [10:11:56] | stuarta: | that was him being nice :-p |
| [10:12:00] | juski: | this is them thar internets :) |
| [10:12:19] | juski: | heh I'm doomed to use mythtv forever |
| [10:12:30] | stuarta: | could be worse |
| [10:12:35] | juski: | just installed boxy or whatever they call it. crashed on first run |
| [10:12:43] | stuarta: | \o/ |
| [10:12:50] | juski: | load of bollocks unable to live up to the hype, as per usual |
| [10:12:54] | superdump: | another issue – where are recordings saved? |
| [10:13:03] | stuarta: | you get one guess |
| [10:13:06] | juski: | recordings are saved where you configure them to be saved |
| [10:13:09] | superdump: | i thought it would be the videos storage dir |
| [10:13:11] | juski: | remember that bit? |
| [10:13:13] | superdump: | but they aren't there |
| [10:13:13] | juski: | no |
| [10:13:18] | stuarta: | that's for videos |
| [10:13:19] | juski: | videos != recordings |
| [10:13:38] | superdump: | well there's no recordings option in the storage dir bit of the config |
| [10:13:45] | superdump: | at least not in mine |
| [10:13:49] | stuarta: | try default |
| [10:14:42] | superdump: | hmm, i see |
| [10:16:05] | juski: | wheee I like this boxee thingy. Load.. it goes fullscreen. then crashes |
| [10:16:11] | superdump: | :) |
| [10:16:57] | juski: | ahh, it's based on **** that'll be why. That won't ****ing run either |
| [10:19:10] | juski: | I suspect a conspiracy at play here. they have code to detect that it's ME running it & crash. easy to do |
| [10:19:22] | juski: | if $homeuser = "justin" { |
| [10:20:46] | laga: | bork(); |
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| [10:22:34] | ** stuarta starts singing "bork bork de bork" like a swedish chef ** | |
| [10:25:08] | superdump: | i'm wondering if there's something missing in the installation from source manual |
| [10:25:12] | superdump: | set password for 'mythtv'@'%' = password('mythtv'); |
| [10:25:39] | superdump: | gives an error that mysql can't find any matching row in the user table |
| [10:25:54] | superdump: | does that mean one has to create a mythtv user first |
| [10:25:55] | superdump: | ? |
| [10:26:00] | superdump: | in mysql |
| [10:26:34] | juski: | the docs say to run mysql -u root < mc.sql innit |
| [10:26:54] | juski: | and if you look in mc.sql ... ;-) |
| [10:27:33] | superdump: | then these docs need updating: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Initial_Installation |
| [10:27:35] | stuarta: | and i'd recommend not using mythtv as the password |
| [10:28:00] | stuarta: | i've seen mythtv/mythtv login attempts from skript kiddies |
| [10:28:01] | juski: | patches are always welcome |
| [10:28:36] | juski: | well, not always welcome ;) |
| [10:28:41] | superdump: | hmm, it says "this page is up to date with myth 0.21" |
| [10:28:57] | superdump: | is it ok to edit the page and update it past 0.21? :) |
| [10:29:11] | juski: | the wiki? eew |
| [10:29:26] | stuarta: | thats the general idea with wikis |
| [10:29:28] | juski: | superdump: 0.21 is the very latest released version, so no |
| [10:29:44] | juski: | there is NO 0.22 |
| [10:30:27] | superdump: | did i say there was? |
| [10:30:28] | superdump: | :) |
| [10:30:43] | juski: | 0.21.. going past that kinda infers 0.22 |
| [10:30:58] | superdump: | not necessarily – head |
| [10:31:16] | juski: | you mean trunk |
| [10:31:18] | stuarta: | juski: although it would be nice if the documenation was up to date _before_ a release |
| [10:31:21] | superdump: | head of trunk |
| [10:31:27] | stuarta: | top of tree |
| [10:31:44] | juski: | stuarta: it would be nice if we all had ponies ;-) |
| [10:32:00] | stuarta: | i don't want a pony |
| [10:32:33] | juski: | they're lovely in sandwiches with a bit of mustard |
| [10:34:14] | juski: | better undo the sources.list changes I made earlier |
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| [11:25:26] | tmkt: | having some crazy issues with audio when doing video play back – tv recordings are fine, but other videos not so much, of music... tried with Internal and tried with mplayer..same result quiet voices..loud everything else |
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| [11:30:24] | tmkt: | play -L |
| [11:32:08] | AndyCap: | tmkt: surround sound downmixing problem? |
| [11:33:05] | tmkt: | yeah...seems like it..everything is going through spdif |
| [11:33:48] | tmkt: | this problem only showed up with the newest mythbuntu |
| [11:44:21] | tmkt: | think it has to do with this Forced audio codec: hwac3 |
| [11:44:21] | tmkt: | Cannot find codec for audio format 0x6134706D. |
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| [12:05:05] | juski: | grrr another one of our units corrupted its own flash again |
| [12:05:44] | ** stuarta offers the big stick ** | |
| [12:07:18] | juski: | something v. wrong with the flash write routine if a unit which isn't writing to the app storage area manages to corrupt the app storage area |
| [12:07:48] | stuarta: | aye |
| [12:08:13] | stuarta: | or some other routine which thinks it's reading and instead writes |
| [12:08:25] | stuarta: | or attempts to write to the cpu and misses and gets flash |
| [12:08:47] | juski: | or there's a problem with address decoding. meh |
| [12:08:55] | stuarta: | is the data it writes consistent or crap? |
| [12:09:21] | juski: | no way to tell. problem is, the unit has to be fixed ASAP leaving no time for diagnosis |
| [12:09:33] | stuarta: | no time to even copy the flash? |
| [12:09:47] | juski: | the devs don't have time to look at it |
| [12:09:55] | juski: | so I'm left fire-fighting :) |
| [12:10:17] | stuarta: | i'd copy, fix |
| [12:10:32] | stuarta: | then when really bored start doing bit/byte level comparisons |
| [12:10:44] | juski: | I don't have the gear to dump the flash contents |
| [12:10:50] | stuarta: | :( |
| [12:10:53] | juski: | there's no flash read command in the bootloader |
| [12:11:09] | stuarta: | oh well, ignore that then |
| [12:11:33] | juski: | & the jtag guy can only verify flash writes in his software, not do dumps |
| [12:11:59] | stuarta: | doh |
| [12:12:13] | stuarta: | wtf are you meant to work out what went wrong then? |
| [12:12:28] | juski: | I've been saying for over 12 months now that we need to look at this before we end up with units in the field that need bringing back to base to re-jtag |
| [12:12:54] | stuarta: | aye, that'll cost $$$ and reputation--- |
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| [12:17:43] | juski: | and in other news.. just been asked what the output resolution of a product is. I jokingly replied "that'd be in the product specification innit". Got a bollocking. heheheh |
| [12:18:11] | juski: | cos it's not in the spec. cos there is no spec |
| [12:18:31] | stuarta: | bunch of mupper |
| [12:18:33] | stuarta: | bunch of muppets |
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| [12:19:57] | juski: | wooo we need to make a new DVR. What does it need to do? Dunno. How good does it have to be? Dunno. What's the target market? Dunno |
| [12:20:09] | juski: | recipe for fail! :D |
| [12:20:31] | ** stuarta promotes juski to head of DVR development ** | |
| [12:29:01] | AndyCap: | switch to an eprom and cut Vpp. :P |
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| [12:33:52] | sid3windr: | :) |
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| [12:49:06] | juski: | AndyCap: small problem with that solution. some bright spark thinks it's a good idea to store config data in the same flash device as the main app |
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| [12:50:00] | AndyCap: | juski: just spin it as a security feature. config lockdown. |
| [12:50:00] | juski: | it's like when we used to use I2C eeproms – they'd get corrupted by the software too only now instead of having to rewrite the config data we have to re-jtag the whole thing :D |
| [12:50:01] | AndyCap: | :> |
| [12:50:18] | juski: | when some bright spark is the CEO... |
| [12:51:07] | AndyCap: | then its time to start looking for an exit strategy. :P |
| [12:51:37] | stuarta: | i think they have the exit strategy in hand already |
| [12:55:41] | juski: | what I need is a braindead job near home which will pay the mortgage |
| [12:56:56] | stuarta: | we could turn you into a Qt programmer.... |
| [12:59:07] | juski: | lol |
| [12:59:25] | laga: | that'd be cute |
| [12:59:25] | stuarta: | try it for fun |
| [12:59:37] | stuarta: | interface designer... |
| [13:00:38] | juski: | end customers are universally idiotic though |
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| [13:00:50] | stuarta: | well yes |
| [13:03:00] | juski: | woo update from Oldham Useless Council.. they've removed the content from Google |
| [13:03:03] | juski: | hahahaha |
| [13:03:20] | superdump: | my cousin used to live up there |
| [13:03:24] | juski: | "Google's control panel where we make the requests show the page has been removed." |
| [13:03:37] | superdump: | requests for what? |
| [13:04:06] | juski: | requests to remove stuff from google's cache I'm guessing – i.e. webmaster control panel thingy |
| [13:04:15] | superdump: | ah |
| [13:04:20] | juski: | they leaked personal data onto the interwebs |
| [13:04:46] | jblack: | and removing it from search results is the proper answer in their minds? |
| [13:05:19] | juski: | the pages are gone, so they need to get google to flatten the caches of the data |
| [13:05:22] | psm321: | how often is EIT data broadcast? |
| [13:05:33] | juski: | psm321: as often as it's broadcast |
| [13:05:45] | psm321: | hah |
| [13:05:46] | psm321: | ok |
| [13:05:48] | juski: | it can take a while for all channels to be updated |
| [13:05:52] | psm321: | no standard? |
| [13:05:59] | juski: | nope |
| [13:06:07] | psm321: | thanks |
| [13:06:15] | stuarta: | there are standards |
| [13:06:31] | stuarta: | they specify minimum repitition rates for the data |
| [13:06:32] | juski: | probably a factor of how many channels there are, how long the data is meant to be for & how much data they want to supply |
| [13:06:40] | stuarta: | the now/next data is pretty quick |
| [13:06:59] | stuarta: | then 0–3 days is slower, and the 3–7 days is slower again |
| [13:07:46] | stuarta: | and there are different speeds for this mux / other mux |
| [13:08:09] | stuarta: | obviously this mux, now/next is the most often repeated data |
| [13:08:12] | psm321: | also, has anyone here messed with building their own OTA antenna? (just curious) |
| [13:08:43] | juski: | psm321: mzb has |
| [13:08:59] | juski: | VHF though. made of wood & wire IIRC |
| [13:10:32] | juski: | FWIW it'd be cheaper to buy a good one than to make your own |
| [13:14:44] | psm321: | people seem to have better luck with custom made ones |
| [13:15:17] | juski: | as opposed to junk made & sold by Radio Shack :) |
| [13:15:19] | psm321: | heck my own 10 minute job made just from aluminum foil when i wanted to "watch" the digital transition does a better job than the store-bought one i used to have |
| [13:16:07] | juski: | well, when you used to have the other one things may have been different. like they be on MOARPWR now :D |
| [13:16:21] | psm321: | true |
| [13:16:33] | psm321: | i'll have to get that one back and try it again |
| [13:17:00] | psm321: | but my makeshift one does a surprisingly good job on digital... way better than i expected |
| [13:17:04] | psm321: | anyways, off to work |
| [13:17:44] | laga: | !seen directhex |
| [13:17:44] | MythLogBot: | directhex was last seen 69 days 4 hours 2 minutes 4 seconds ago |
| [13:18:42] | juski: | now there's a blast from the past! |
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| [13:28:38] | laga: | heh |
| [13:28:51] | laga: | wonder why he's gone. i've just found his website on reddit |
| [13:31:59] | juski: | probably got sick of the same thing we all get sick & tired of |
| [13:35:51] | stuarta: | couldn't be arsed? |
| [13:37:09] | laga: | heh |
| [13:37:31] | laga: | too bad there is no good C# plugin for eclipse. looks like an interesting language |
| [13:39:49] | juski: | laga: not as if Mr Shields isn't busy on other projects ;-) |
| [13:41:11] | laga: | juski: yep. mono, for example :) |
| [13:41:25] | stuarta: | wtf is a MOTU???? |
| [13:41:48] | jams: | master of the universe |
| [13:42:00] | stuarta: | it was a crap cartoon |
| [13:42:05] | stuarta: | so what is it really? |
| [13:42:17] | stuarta: | or what does it mean |
| [13:42:39] | jams: | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |
| [13:43:05] | jams: | if it's not ubuntu related, then I don't know (other then the cartoon ) |
| [13:43:11] | sphery: | wagnerrp: re: #6678 , QUERY_CHECKFILE is supposed to use the backend separator between the command name, the qualifier, and the programinfo... i.e. QUERY_CHECKFILE[]:[]1[]:[]<programinfo> , so your 2 extra []:[] shouldn't be there... I just assumed--incorrectly--that it worked like QUERY_RECORDING (where the command, qualifier, and data are sent space-separated). So, you should move the 2 extra backend separators to be ... |
| [13:43:17] | sphery: | ... between the command and qualifier and programinfo. |
| [13:43:20] | stuarta: | yeah it is ubuntu related |
| [13:43:22] | stoth (stoth!n=stoth@ool-18bfe0d5.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [13:43:34] | stuarta: | //www.opensubscriber.com/message/ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com/12111544.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/ubuntu- . . . 2111544.html |
| [13:43:37] | jams: | i had the same question about 6 months ago =) |
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| [13:46:18] | sphery: | stuarta: re: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6663 (which sounds like description isn't being reset), any ideas where that might be. |
| [13:47:06] | sphery: | then again, it may just be that the user configured both EIT and some other grabber on the same channel... |
| [13:47:08] | stuarta: | i didn't think we re-used EventInformation object |
| [13:47:25] | stuarta: | actually think it's called Event |
| [13:47:42] | stuarta: | each EIT "record" becomes an object |
| [13:47:58] | stuarta: | so it's either a re-use bug, or an initialization bug |
| [13:48:05] | sphery: | so perhaps the user has XMLTV and EIT (or SD and EIT enabled)? |
| [13:48:21] | stuarta: | no reason to suspect that |
| [13:48:43] | sphery: | could it be just one fixup that's affected? |
| [13:49:21] | stuarta: | the fixups operate on the event itself, so it shouldn't be a fixup either |
| [13:49:59] | sphery: | ok, cool |
| [13:50:10] | sphery: | I know nothing of EIT, but I'll take a quick look and see if it's obvious. |
| [13:50:51] | stuarta: | ta |
| [13:59:39] | ** sphery realizes that he's in way over his head ** | |
| [13:59:46] | sphery: | EIT is much bigger than I realized. |
| [14:00:04] | stuarta: | nah its easy |
| [14:00:21] | stuarta: | fixups = regexp-fu |
| [14:00:56] | sphery: | well, it requires a bit of study to figure out, at least. |
| [14:01:25] | stuarta: | yes :) |
| [14:01:48] | stuarta: | OTOH, i wouldn't know where to start with the UI code |
| [14:02:35] | sphery: | Yeah... I've been mostly working on backend stuff, so I may just stick to what I know best (with the occassional venture into areas that actually interest/affect me). |
| [14:03:05] | sphery: | guess I could actually work on some of the things on my TODO list |
| [14:04:00] | sphery: | not that I don't appreciate EIT... It's just mostly useless for me (in the US using OTA). |
| [14:04:17] | stuarta: | they don't broadcast any info? |
| [14:05:35] | sphery: | I've only seen now/next info (and it's usually very poor info--sometimes wrong :) |
| [14:05:43] | sphery: | and, since SD data is so good... |
| [14:06:05] | stuarta: | how do peoples TV's let you know what is on then? |
| [14:06:11] | stuarta: | or does everyone buy a tv guide? |
| [14:06:15] | sphery: | haven't checked for a while, though, but maybe it's better after the digital transition |
| [14:06:46] | sphery: | most everyone buys cable, which comes with a STB that gets its own non-standard EPG feed |
| [14:07:05] | jams: | i'm hoping its better now, but i don't have high hopes |
| [14:07:06] | stuarta: | so it's merely a matter of working that out |
| [14:07:21] | sphery: | and those who want DVR functionality pay an extra $6–15/mo to get the DVR EPG (i.e. goes out farther than the "normal" one) |
| [14:07:44] | sphery: | I'm actually quite happy with SD, though. |
| [14:07:57] | sphery: | I figure that EIT in the US will never be as good as Schedules Direct data |
| [14:08:32] | sphery: | plus, I've got years of TMS programid's to use for dup matching, so... |
| [14:14:42] | stuarta: | fair enuf |
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| [14:15:40] | jasonmchristos: | hi |
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| [14:16:04] | jasonmchristos: | i am not a user yet |
| [14:16:38] | jams: | hi |
| [14:17:00] | jasonmchristos: | but it seems that this myth tv would work best with broadcast or regular cable |
| [14:17:00] | jasonmchristos: | how well does this work with digital cable boxes? |
| [14:17:04] | jasonmchristos: | hi jams |
| [14:18:11] | jasonmchristos: | i take it with a digital cable box none of the schedualing or channel changing features would work it would reduce it to an alternative to a 1980's vcr? |
| [14:18:38] | jams: | for digital cable you would still need to use the STB provided by the company. You would capture the output from the STB like any other source. To change channels an ir blaster is needed |
| [14:18:49] | stuarta: | what he said |
| [14:19:14] | jams: | setting a schedule works just fine, provided your have a good data source. In the USA that would be signing up for schedules direct |
| [14:19:17] | jasonmchristos: | ir blaster? |
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| [14:19:54] | jams: | jasonmchristos- ir blaster = transmitter it sends signals just like your remote |
| [14:20:10] | jasonmchristos: | well my customer has digital cable and i need to come with strong selling points so they do not just go with the tivo box or whatever the cable company sells |
| [14:20:47] | jasonmchristos: | i think it is called moxi actually |
| [14:21:15] | jasonmchristos: | but i know it can schedual recordings |
| [14:21:15] | jasonmchristos: | will the mythtv be able to do this |
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| [14:22:34] | jams: | oh sure it has a very powerful scheduling abilities. |
| [14:22:41] | jams: | jasonmchristos- i assume you are in the USA? |
| [14:22:57] | jasonmchristos: | jams: if you have to have a remote for digital how would schedualing work if you are not there to change the channel |
| [14:23:05] | jasonmchristos: | yes |
| [14:23:07] | jasonmchristos: | USA |
| [14:23:43] | jams: | The ir blaster is connected to the myth backend. Mythtv will issue the command when it needs to change channels. |
| [14:24:27] | jams: | depending on the blaster used it either connects via serial port or usb port. |
| [14:24:39] | Ryushin: | I just got an G1 android phone a week ago. I've rooted it already and I'm looking at putting Debian on it. Since it's mostly Java based apps at this point, is there a Java player for Myth? I guess I can end compiling myth on the phone for the ARM processor. |
| [14:24:44] | jams: | sometimes into the caputre card, but I can't recommend those. |
| [14:26:15] | jams: | jasonmchristos- the reason I asked about your location is because in the USA you will need to sign up for schedules direct, which is about $20 a year but they do offer a free trial. |
| [14:26:28] | juski: | Ryushin: you should look at Mythmote – a fully featured mythtv FE on a mobile device with one teensy snag |
| [14:26:50] | Ryushin: | And that one teensy snag is? |
| [14:26:51] | jams: | I suggest trying to setup a test machine, some of this stuff will make more sense after you started working with it |
| [14:26:55] | jasonmchristos: | ok say i could convice the customer to switch service what is the best service to use |
| [14:27:05] | juski: | Ryushin: it doesn't exist yet :) |
| [14:27:35] | Ryushin: | Oh, thanks for bursting my bubble. :( |
| [14:27:45] | jams: | jasonmchristos- cable service? |
| [14:28:09] | sphery: | jasonmchristos: and note that you'll have to use an STB for any encrypted digital (meaning likely everything that's not broadcast in digital over-the-air) and you'll be capturing with an analog capture card (likely using standard-definition--even for high-definition channels) |
| [14:28:33] | sphery: | jasonmchristos: though in 0.22 there should be good support for the HD-PVR (analog high-definition capture device) |
| [14:28:42] | jams: | really can't answer that one, as it's directly related to location. |
| [14:28:47] | jasonmchristos: | yes i need to start testing |
| [14:28:47] | jasonmchristos: | hmmm around here regular cable is not what most people get they get digital or satelite |
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| [14:30:49] | jasonmchristos: | this mythtv seems like it works best only for low def unencrypted cable and broadcast |
| [14:30:57] | Ryushin: | I guess I'll compile mythtv on android and then use VNC to watch the video. |
| [14:31:15] | sphery: | jasonmchristos: it works great for high-def unencrypted cable and broadcast |
| [14:31:26] | sphery: | jasonmchristos: it's just the /un/encrypted part that's important |
| [14:31:52] | jasonmchristos: | no one wants to pay an extra 20 dollars a month just for a tv guide |
| [14:31:52] | jasonmchristos: | 0at that rate they might as well buy a moxi or tivo service |
| [14:31:52] | jasonmchristos: | sphery |
| [14:31:53] | jasonmchristos: | i see |
| [14:32:01] | sphery: | if your cable company doesn't want you to be able to use the TV channels you pay for without their equipment, there's not much Myth can do about it |
| [14:32:11] | jasonmchristos: | well i might use it for myself for digital broadcast and show it off to people but most around here want the million channel satelites and digital cable |
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| [14:32:12] | sphery: | $20/yr for SDTV |
| [14:32:18] | sphery: | = $0.05/day |
| [14:32:28] | sphery: | I mean for Schedules Direct |
| [14:32:47] | jasonmchristos: | sphery: ohh i thought u said per month |
| [14:32:48] | sphery: | = $1.67/mo |
| [14:32:52] | jams: | did i say per month, i meant per year |
| [14:33:23] | sphery: | and it's the /exact/ same data that TiVo users pay $20/mo(?) for |
| [14:33:52] | jams: | nope we said per year. Guess it's such an unbeliable deal that jasonmchristos didn't beleive it =) |
| [14:34:06] | sphery: | though, IMHO, MythTV is a /lot/ more expensive than cable-/satellite-company DVR's and is probably more expensive than even TiVo |
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| [14:35:01] | jams: | sphery- don't ever go into sales, thats a terrible sales pitch for mythtv |
| [14:35:11] | sphery: | and if you factor in the time/effort in maintaining it/learning to keep it working, it's a lot more expensive than any other solution I've seen :) |
| [14:35:49] | sphery: | yeah, I'm not a salesman--I'm all for people going into projects with realistic expectations |
| [14:35:57] | jams: | what you say is true |
| [14:37:18] | bchapman: | Hello – we are considering putting 2 HVR-1600's into a quad-core opteron box. With the AV brackets this would give us 4 composite inputs to record from. If we use a hardware raid card (Adaptec) and SATA2 drives, could we record four simultaneous streams? This is for recording classroom lectures. |
| [14:37:55] | sphery: | None of the cable-/satellite-DVR or TiVo users I know have ever had to repair their MySQL databases or learn how to cleanly rescan without corrupting channel/cardinput info or deal with overheating chipsets/memory corruption/other hardware issues the way I have with my Myth boxes. |
| [14:38:44] | sphery: | But then again, none of them have 6.5TB of storage for their TV and the ability to record 4 HDTV shows while playing back a show and skipping commercials instantly and playing back recordings at faster than real time and ... |
| [14:39:02] | sphery: | (that being just my system--not even close to MythTV upper limits) |
| [14:40:17] | stuarta: | how is driver support for the hvr-1600's these days? |
| [14:41:01] | bchapman: | HVR-1600 support seems very solid, based on limited testing. It's improved I think. |
| [14:41:36] | sphery: | bchapman: TTBOMK, the HVR-1600 is an ATSC digital capture card with a single hardware encoder--i.e. can only encode one analog input at a time |
| [14:41:59] | stuarta: | wouldn't something like the pvr-500 be better? |
| [14:42:11] | sphery: | yeah, PVR-500 has 2 encoders |
| [14:42:23] | sphery: | can't buy it new in the US, but there are typically some available on ebay |
| [14:42:32] | stuarta: | so what replaced it? |
| [14:42:41] | stuarta: | wasn't it something from the hvr range? |
| [14:42:42] | sphery: | digital capture cards |
| [14:42:44] | stoth: | 2250 |
| [14:42:59] | stuarta: | hvr-2250? |
| [14:43:03] | stoth: | yes |
| [14:43:04] | sphery: | ahhh, yeah, 2 analog tuners and hardware encoders |
| [14:43:09] | sphery: | and 2 digital receivers |
| [14:43:13] | sphery: | http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr2250.html |
| [14:43:15] | stoth: | yes |
| [14:43:25] | sphery: | it's good to have a product expert in channel :) |
| [14:43:27] | stuarta: | ta, was just going to goole for that |
| [14:43:49] | stoth: | http://www.kernellabs.com/blog/?page_id=17 |
| [14:44:09] | sphery: | stoth: with the HVR-2250, it's still only 2 captures at once, right--i.e. 2 analog or 2 digital or 1 analog and 1 digital--right? |
| [14:44:12] | stoth: | Long story short, you're out of luck at the moment with Linux and analog. |
| [14:44:19] | sphery: | and with the HVR-1500, it's one analog or one digital, right? |
| [14:44:25] | sphery: | s/1500/1600/ |
| [14:44:28] | stoth: | yes |
| [14:44:39] | stoth: | no, one analog _AND_ one digital |
| [14:44:50] | stoth: | (depending on your perspective of analog) |
| [14:45:10] | sphery: | with the 1600, you can do analog and digital concurrently? |
| [14:45:21] | stoth: | with the 2250 you could be capturing 2 digital and 2 analog at once (in theory) if analog mean svideo and not using the tuner. |
| [14:45:30] | sphery: | ahhh |
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| [14:45:34] | stoth: | sphery: Yes, if the analog input doesn't use the tuner. |
| [14:45:39] | sphery: | so, it's only really the tuner that's shared |
| [14:45:44] | stoth: | y |
| [14:45:47] | sphery: | got it |
| [14:45:50] | stoth: | hmm, one sec... lemme check for sure. |
| [14:46:12] | stoth: | my bad. Dual tuners on the hvr1600, both analog _AND_ digital can be done at the same time. |
| [14:46:23] | sphery: | oh... cool |
| [14:46:46] | bchapman: | It shows "composite1" and "composite2" as inputs – I'm waiting to get the bracket to test. |
| [14:47:10] | sphery: | only one encoder, though, right? |
| [14:47:12] | bchapman: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_HVR-1600 |
| [14:47:24] | stoth: | sphery: correct |
| [14:47:32] | stoth: | hvr2250 is the only US dual encoder board. |
| [14:48:02] | sphery: | bchapman: so for 1 card with 2 concurrent analog encoding capability, you'd need either a PVR-500 (from eBay) or HVR-2200 (and wait until the drivers are in good shape :) |
| [14:48:38] | sphery: | Too bad the FCC made you guys stop selling the PVR-xx0 line in the US. Yeah, it's not digital, but some people still use analog... |
| [14:49:05] | bchapman: | PVR-500, then. :) Thanks for all the info – back to the original question – if we had two PVR-500s in a quad core machine with raid card could we record all four at once? |
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| [14:49:09] | stoth: | Buy them direct from Hauppauge. |
| [14:49:19] | sphery: | really, they can do that? |
| [14:49:24] | stoth: | call em up. |
| [14:49:25] | sphery: | (I'm not a big fan of ebay) |
| [14:49:37] | sphery: | bchapman: trust stoth--he knows what he's talking about :) |
| [14:49:50] | stoth: | ocassionally. |
| [14:50:14] | bchapman: | I can see that he does! Thanks |
| [14:50:36] | sphery: | thanks for the info... I promise not to spread confusion about the HVR-xxx0 line, anymore. :) |
| [14:50:46] | stuarta: | bchapman: if the card does hardware encoding you don't need much cpu on the backend machine |
| [14:51:02] | ** stuarta pokes sphery with a sharpened trout ** | |
| [14:51:46] | bchapman: | I guess I was more worried about disk access and speed – not an issue with four streams? |
| [14:51:54] | sphery: | bchapman: Yeah, I set up an Athlon XP 2000+ with 4 PVR-250's (basically 2 PVR-250's would be like a single PVR-500). It could record from all 4 while playing back another recording. |
| [14:52:11] | bchapman: | sphery: outstanding |
| [14:52:16] | sphery: | disk speed is nothing |
| [14:52:55] | stoth: | 12Mbps * 4 isn't a lot. |
| [14:52:55] | bchapman: | sphery: are your drives just connected to regular sata? |
| [14:52:56] | sphery: | we're talking 6Mbps for a (reasonably) high-bitrate MPEG-2 SDTV recording... That's mega/bits/ per second. |
| [14:53:37] | stoth: | Seek times can be a PITA so I'd isolate your recordings to a phycailly seperate drive, from the system / swap drive. |
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| [14:54:18] | stoth: | I suffer a little because my mythdb is on the same disk as the recordings..... bah. |
| [14:54:28] | sphery: | bchapman: they were IDE, and they were small (100–300GB) drives and using LVM to concatenate them, and with a not-great chipset that only managed about 40MB/sec reads and lower for writes, so drive performance was awful, but that was nothing for 4 recordings |
| [14:54:30] | stoth: | so mythfilldatabase can blow the machine. |
| [14:54:50] | Dibblah: | stoth: So move it ;) |
| [14:55:05] | stoth: | actually, I did yesterday – after living with it for 11 months. |
| [14:55:18] | stoth: | which reminds me, my schedules direct.ogr sub is up next month. |
| [14:55:28] | Dibblah: | You may find that temporary tables are still created in the old location. |
| [14:55:32] | bchapman: | all: thanks for the excellent information – sounds like it's off to ebay and I won't worry so much about the disks – again very appreciated. |
| [14:55:33] | sphery: | Yeah, put the MySQL database data on a different partition (at minimum), but ideally a different drive from the ones to which you record. And, putting the OS install on a different drive is good, too. |
| [14:55:36] | Dibblah: | Check my.cnf |
| [14:55:56] | stoth: | Dibblah: I moved the recordings onto a ext4 drive. |
| [14:56:29] | stoth: | specifcally, I mounted a new filesystem over /var/lib/mythtv/reecordings |
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| [14:56:46] | Dibblah: | Yeah, that'd work. I'd not recommend ext4, though. |
| [14:57:02] | Dibblah: | Doesn't have all that many advantages over ext2 for massive files. |
| [14:57:07] | stoth: | I'm running it before the season starts again. |
| [14:57:12] | stoth: | Dibblah, you're wrong btw. |
| [14:57:31] | Dibblah: | Okay :) |
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| [14:57:39] | stoth: | delete times are fantastic and the burst times are comparable to XFS. |
| [14:57:47] | sphery: | I think I waited about 2 yrs after the kernel called it stable before I called ext3 stable enough for my tastes... I'll probably do the same for ext4. |
| [14:58:03] | Dibblah: | I've seen _really_ poor append performance on ext4 over ext3/2. |
| [14:58:05] | ** stuarta is happy with xfs ** | |
| [14:58:19] | stoth: | I used xfs for large files back in 2002, very good performance. |
| [14:58:23] | ** Dibblah hopes stuarta never has to xfs_repair it. ** | |
| [14:58:43] | sphery: | With the mythtv slow deletes, I'm happy with ext3 |
| [14:58:48] | squidly: | xfs is working 100x better for me then ext3 |
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| [14:59:07] | stoth: | I'll make a decision on ext4 early september before the fall seasons start. If I'm not happy then I'll review again. |
| [14:59:13] | stuarta: | Dibblah: what's wrong with xfs that would require such extreme measures |
| [14:59:22] | stoth: | slow deletes with ext3 for sure. |
| [14:59:39] | Dibblah: | A 1.3Tb volume requires 5Gb of RAM to xfs_repair. |
| [14:59:49] | Dibblah: | Or did when I needed to. |
| [14:59:52] | stoth: | eek, nasty. |
| [15:00:11] | stuarta: | :( |
| [15:00:12] | Dibblah: | Rather a problem, since I was running x86 at that time. |
| [15:00:41] | Dibblah: | (Therefore adding swap didn't help – And took 24 hours before I knew that for sure) |
| [15:00:54] | superdump: | newb question about DVB streams – do all subscription-based services that want to have their content protected from unauthorised access encrypt their streams or do some mandate that the protection be part of the STB? the latter sounds kind of silly to me, but just checking |
| [15:01:12] | Dibblah: | Some are just application protected. |
| [15:01:24] | stuarta: | but generally encrypted streams |
| [15:01:25] | Dibblah: | Very few, though – And I think that's limited to the UK. |
| [15:01:27] | superdump: | wouldn't that be quite easy to gain access to? |
| [15:01:30] | Dibblah: | Yes. |
| [15:01:34] | stuarta: | ssh |
| [15:01:37] | Dibblah: | But they don't care. |
| [15:01:38] | stuarta: | don't tell anyone |
| [15:01:42] | superdump: | :) |
| [15:01:48] | squidly: | Dibblah: it's gotten a lot better |
| [15:01:53] | superdump: | what services are these? |
| [15:01:55] | ** superdump is in the UK ** | |
| [15:01:57] | superdump: | hehe |
| [15:02:01] | Dibblah: | Since the target audience isn't exactly brain surgeons. |
| [15:02:11] | stuarta: | quite frankly, if you can work out how to watch it well good luck to you... |
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| [15:02:23] | stuarta: | lets just say the channel starts at 11pm |
| [15:02:24] | sphery: | do brain surgeons know a lot about cracking encryption? :) |
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| [15:02:31] | superdump: | stuarta: hahaha |
| [15:02:33] | superdump: | nice |
| [15:02:59] | Dibblah: | No, but they have problem solving skills, generally. |
| [15:03:05] | sphery: | :) |
| [15:03:07] | superdump: | one would hope |
| [15:03:27] | stuarta: | anyway, back to the original question |
| [15:03:29] | superdump: | intelligence + literacy = win |
| [15:03:42] | ** Dibblah wishes everyone would stop asking questions about S2 support. ** | |
| [15:03:43] | sphery: | I opened up my STB and carved off a portion of the frontal lobe. Since then, I've been able to access all channels. |
| [15:03:55] | stuarta: | broadcasters encrypt their streams which need the appropriate hardware and smartcard in the STB to decrypt |
| [15:04:22] | stuarta: | there's naff all on dvb-s2 that's not encrypted |
| [15:05:08] | superdump: | stuarta: i'm looking into some IPTV stuff that will require some cryptographic stuff in myth at some level |
| [15:05:15] | ** stuarta wonders if the relevant dvb-s2 api will cope with dvb-t2 when it comes out ** | |
| [15:05:26] | superdump: | it's likely that content will have to be decrypted on the fly at the point of consumption |
| [15:05:28] | sphery: | how much out there is actually broadcast only on DVB-S2? I thought few places were using it and most still had DVB-S and just a few test DVB-S2 things. |
| [15:05:34] | stuarta: | in myth won't happen |
| [15:05:46] | mzb: | juski & psm321: cheap multi aerial is around $50, will bend from wind/bird/etc and has plastic pieces that will drop off in a few years. |
| [15:05:49] | stuarta: | we only support having the official CAM / STB for decryption |
| [15:05:50] | stoth: | stuarta: Yes, it's t2 capable. |
| [15:05:59] | stuarta: | ta, thought it would be |
| [15:06:10] | superdump: | i understand 'traditional' DVB stuff uses hardware for decryption |
| [15:06:12] | mzb: | wooden aerial still going strong |
| [15:06:12] | superdump: | right |
| [15:06:27] | mzb: | (that's au$50) |
| [15:06:36] | Dibblah: | All licensed DVB stuff uses hardware for decryption. |
| [15:06:43] | superdump: | stuarta: it's part of an open IPTV standard and it will be developed to be part of myth whether accepted into trunk or not :) |
| [15:06:43] | stuarta: | even iptv |
| [15:06:59] | Dibblah: | ... Since CSA is a licensed implementation. |
| [15:07:02] | stuarta: | it'll be interesting to watch how it pans out |
| [15:07:40] | superdump: | i'd have to check but i don't think the spec mandates some closed hardware for cryptographic purposes |
| [15:07:47] | Dibblah: | ie you can't use it legally without paying someone a license fee. |
| [15:08:02] | stuarta: | i'd be surprised if it mandates what crypto to use |
| [15:08:11] | stuarta: | since the tend to update it regularly |
| [15:08:18] | stuarta: | they |
| [15:08:21] | wagnerrp: | sphery: how it is actually works |
| [15:08:27] | superdump: | ah, that might be a loophole to get around it |
| [15:08:37] | mzb: | http://www.marcusbrutus.soho.on.net/gallery2/ . . . gitalAerial/ |
| [15:08:38] | superdump: | just state that the cryptographic methods used are outside the scope of the spec |
| [15:08:38] | wagnerrp: | although i dont know if it properly uses the 'check slaves' parameter |
| [15:08:39] | sphery: | wagnerrp: yeah, it works, but it's not how it was designed to work |
| [15:09:04] | sphery: | check slaves is a boolean represented as an int (i.e. 0 = no, anything else is yes, so 1 = yes) |
| [15:09:05] | wagnerrp: | since the check slaves is outside the separators, it may just ignore that argument |
| [15:09:07] | stuarta: | sphery: lyngsat can answer that for you, (it's mainly HD channels) |
| [15:09:18] | sphery: | stuarta: cool |
| [15:09:41] | sphery: | I've been wondering why so many users (not devs) are trying to make it work |
| [15:09:44] | wagnerrp: | anyone know of any documentation for the python bindings? i cant find any on the wiki |
| [15:09:51] | wagnerrp: | (just wondering before i start writing them) |
| [15:09:54] | janneg: | stuarta: the standard crypto stays CSA, only the protocol for sending the keys changes |
| [15:10:21] | stuarta: | ah, that makes sense |
| [15:10:53] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I actually looked at all the code in Myth that does a QUERY_CHECKFILE and in all cases, a QStringList is created with QUERY_CHECKFILE, 1, <programinfo> and then writeStringList() will put backend separators between each string in the list |
| [15:10:56] | jams: | wagnerrp- only thing I have seen is the commit msg |
| [15:11:07] | sphery: | wagnerrp: so it actually puts the separator after QUERY_CHECKFILE and after 1 |
| [15:11:11] | jams: | wagnerrp- i thought you didn't like python? |
| [15:11:32] | wagnerrp: | jams: not sure where you got that |
| [15:11:46] | wagnerrp: | i mean i prefer php for web programming, python for shell scripts |
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| [15:12:18] | jams: | alright |
| [15:13:02] | sphery: | I treat Python development just like I treat real pythons... I figure it will leave me alone as long as I keep my distance (so I don't do python dev :). |
| [15:13:18] | ** stuarta chuckles ** | |
| [15:13:44] | wagnerrp: | where as you want all the perls you can find (i know, wrong spelling) |
| [15:14:05] | superdump: | i just checked |
| [15:14:31] | sphery: | no, I actually hate Perl, too, but it's close enough to the languages I'm used to that I can fake it :) |
| [15:14:32] | superdump: | it says the use of third party smart card, uicc or cam should not be required |
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| [15:15:13] | sphery: | superdump: not required can also mean "not required for the end user, but some functionality will be lost"? |
| [15:15:49] | sphery: | I can't see any open spec advocating breaking encryption provided for protection of content... |
| [15:16:08] | superdump: | and that all parts of the necessary cryptographic functionality for content protection shall be openly standardised such that no proprietary extension to any part of the system is required |
| [15:16:25] | superdump: | hmm |
| [15:16:36] | sphery: | gotta wonder what the point of the crypto is, then... |
| [15:16:58] | superdump: | you still have to have the authentication and get the keys and so on |
| [15:17:06] | superdump: | assuming the system is actually secure |
| [15:17:13] | stuarta: | thats nice, but how are the content providers going to be conviced their content is safe? |
| [15:17:18] | superdump: | not secure by obscurity |
| [15:17:46] | superdump: | content providers seem happy to put things out on dvd |
| [15:17:49] | superdump: | they aren't exactly secure |
| [15:17:51] | superdump: | :) |
| [15:18:04] | stuarta: | but you do pay for them |
| [15:18:19] | sphery: | which is why the Blu-Ray spec was designed to fix the design-blunder made by the CSS |
| [15:18:22] | superdump: | some people pay for them, some people don't |
| [15:18:23] | stuarta: | (even tho they want people to pay *EVERY* time you watch a DVD) |
| [15:18:40] | superdump: | or rather, some people pay for the content, some people don't |
| [15:18:59] | superdump: | i do see your point though |
| [15:19:08] | superdump: | i don't know, i'm just the guy who's been handed the spec |
| [15:19:09] | superdump: | :) |
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| [15:19:38] | CShadowRun: | Hi, is there any news on S2 support? I last checked about 3 months ago |
| [15:19:42] | sphery: | so, if you need keys/auth (presumably from some licensing authority), that's something that they're unlikely to allow in an open-source project |
| [15:19:53] | sphery: | as anyone in the world could simply extract the keys/auth from Myth... |
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| [15:20:10] | superdump: | it states that the keys have to be protected in the implementation |
| [15:20:23] | sphery: | how do you protect them in an open source implementation? |
| [15:20:46] | sphery: | if you provide the key encrypted, you'd need to provide decryption algorithm or Myth can't use it |
| [15:20:57] | sphery: | and if that decryption is done in some binary blob, it's not GPL compatible, so... |
| [15:21:13] | stuarta: | you can't protect them |
| [15:21:24] | stuarta: | you have to go to binary only modules |
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| [15:22:20] | sphery: | if it could all be done at a driver level, then myth could use the driver and the driver could be distributed as a closed binary, perhaps |
| [15:22:23] | superdump: | i think by protect it means that, assuming the source code has not been modified from being considered a spec-compliant implementation, that no outside programs and so on can access the keys and that they cannot be exported or so from within the implementation |
| [15:22:25] | sphery: | but you couldn't put it into myth |
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| [15:23:19] | sphery: | but they'd be available in the source, so you wouldn't need to export from the app, right? |
| [15:23:36] | AndyCap: | and you forget why this is done in the first place. :) to keep you from getting your paws on the video, so the whole chain from decryption to output would need to be closed and difficult to alter |
| [15:23:38] | superdump: | depends on the model |
| [15:23:40] | janneg: | well, drm is a stupid idea. as long as the content is displayed there's always a possibility to capture it |
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| [15:24:05] | AndyCap: | janneg: hehe, makes for a bad day when the recipient and attacker are the same person. |
| [15:24:42] | janneg: | even if you have to get the signal directly from the lcd |
| [15:25:02] | superdump: | as it's IPTV, i would guess the service provider will have keys relating to content and the users will have keys relating to their accounts and the account keys can be revoked by the service provider |
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| [15:25:29] | superdump: | as there is actually communication, it's not like there have to be static keys in the consumption device |
| [15:26:04] | superdump: | (i'm not particularly versed in cryptography, but i have some vague knowledge – please correct me if i'm being a tard) |
| [15:26:06] | superdump: | :) |
| [15:26:42] | GreyFoxx: | In the IPTV world they can also just choose not to let you subscribe to the stream and you therefore never even get it at your device |
| [15:27:01] | GreyFoxx: | real iptv that is. not "streaming from a webpage" stuff some refer to as IPTV |
| [15:27:14] | sphery: | janneg: true... The MPAA even argued that the "right" way for schools to exercise fair-use of encrypted content is to set up a video cam in front of a TV to capture clips. http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/0 . . . earings.html |
| [15:27:49] | GreyFoxx: | DRM creates more problems and costs them more money than it solves |
| [15:27:53] | AndyCap: | that makes it sound like taking the camcorder to the movie theater is a-ok. :P |
| [15:27:55] | superdump: | the spec encompasses 'managed' (what you're calling real) and unmanaged (which may be real, just using a normal net connection without QoS guarantees etc) networks |
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| [15:28:26] | superdump: | interesting stuff |
| [15:28:26] | sphery: | AndyCap: yeah, that was even mentioned--the MPAA's recent work at making cameras in theaters illegal |
| [15:28:32] | sphery: | (felony illegal?) |
| [15:28:58] | CShadowRun: | Does the Hauppauge WinTV-NOVA-HD-S2 work with mythtv? |
| [15:29:01] | GreyFoxx: | You cannot provide any QoS guarantees over the net unless you control all routers and switches between the 2 end points |
| [15:29:01] | AndyCap: | fpmita prison next. |
| [15:29:17] | sphery: | anyway, the funny part is the part about "Fritz Attaway" at http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2009/0 . . . earings.html |
| [15:29:18] | stuarta: | CShadowRun: no s2 support has been put into myth |
| [15:29:33] | janneg: | sphery: I've seen that. it's not lossless. I was more thinking of opening the display and capture the signal to the lcd panel |
| [15:29:40] | GreyFoxx: | The net just isn't a solid platform to stream quality tv over |
| [15:29:43] | superdump: | GreyFoxx: i assume this is what they mean by a managed network. end-to-end control |
| [15:29:58] | CShadowRun: | stuarta but can i use the card to recieve normal S channels for now? |
| [15:30:09] | AndyCap: | "they're also demonstrating DRM's impossibility of closing the "analog hole."" I am sure they have ideas for the a-hole as well |
| [15:30:09] | stuarta: | superdump: yes, basically what tiscali tv / bt vision are doing |
| [15:30:14] | superdump: | they're just leaving it open so that other solutions could be implemented in the future if feasible |
| [15:30:18] | janneg: | CShadowRun: it does work as DVB-S card though |
| [15:30:19] | CShadowRun: | gotta buy something, i don't have any tv atm lol |
| [15:30:22] | sphery: | GreyFoxx: agreed... I'm not looking forward to large-scale distribution of video over the 'net |
| [15:30:30] | CShadowRun: | janneg cool, i'll buy that then |
| [15:30:34] | AndyCap: | like mandating autodisable watermark detection in consumer equipment |
| [15:30:38] | CShadowRun: | i assume it'll work as an S2 card when S2 support comes along |
| [15:30:47] | janneg: | CShadowRun: yes |
| [15:30:54] | CShadowRun: | ty :) |
| [15:31:01] | AndyCap: | and if that happens I'm painting my car and getting a tshirt with that. :P |
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| [15:31:31] | GreyFoxx: | With proper multicasting/subscriptions and enough control over the various points it might be feasible to a point... but it will be painful :) |
| [15:31:43] | superdump: | :) |
| [15:32:07] | ** GreyFoxx wishes the Canadian sat providers provided cams ** | |
| [15:32:11] | GreyFoxx: | first to do it gets my money |
| [15:32:17] | sphery: | yeah, and if you look at the amount of (non-net-based) video people consume daily, the Internet would need some /serious/ upgrades to handle the additional bandwidth |
| [15:32:22] | GreyFoxx: | all I want is what I pay for, I just don't want their box :) |
| [15:32:52] | GreyFoxx: | My Boss wants us to look at doing local Video transmission to customers |
| [15:32:56] | superdump: | if STBs are anything like routers, i completely understand |
| [15:32:58] | GreyFoxx: | point to point wireless and fiber |
| [15:32:59] | AndyCap: | sphery: heh, we're already there. |
| [15:33:07] | AndyCap: | sphery: just a matter of kids growing up |
| [15:33:20] | superdump: | the _only_ good routers i've encountered have been linux (or similar) boxes |
| [15:33:27] | AndyCap: | haha |
| [15:33:31] | sphery: | AndyCap: true... still needs upgrades, but would need a lot more if all video were 'net based |
| [15:33:48] | superdump: | all others seem crash happy |
| [15:33:49] | GreyFoxx: | That's all we use for routers actually. hardware routers are too inflexible, too expensive, |
| [15:34:05] | superdump: | or expensive |
| [15:34:05] | GreyFoxx: | and frankly I hate being tied to a vendor |
| [15:34:05] | superdump: | :) |
| [15:34:07] | AndyCap: | sphery: yes. I think it is unavoidable. |
| [15:34:19] | superdump: | thanks for all the discussion by the way |
| [15:34:29] | AndyCap: | sphery: oh, and we want it wirelessly. :P |
| [15:34:31] | superdump: | food for thought |
| [15:34:52] | AndyCap: | hold the cancer. |
| [15:35:15] | sphery: | and autism and other health issues that may be related |
| [15:35:18] | GreyFoxx: | I love the R5000 stuff |
| [15:35:20] | bchapman: | stoth:, spheery: I called Hauppauge to find out if they could sell any PVR-500's and they said that they could be fined by the FCC for selling analog-only tuners. As you said earlier, he confirmed that the only production card with dual encoders is the HVR-2250. Unfortunately no support for analog or other than digital yet in Myth – I'll go to ebay for PVR-500s. Thanks again |
| [15:35:33] | sphery: | (admitted, there's no proof of relationship, but...) |
| [15:35:56] | AndyCap: | haha, digital switchover for the lose. |
| [15:35:56] | GreyFoxx: | users still have to pay for their subscriptions, they do not do the decrytion or bypass drm, but let you record the digital signal |
| [15:36:00] | sphery: | bchapman: too bad... on the bright side, there are a /ton/ of htem on ebay right now |
| [15:36:42] | AndyCap: | pretty nuts if they make it illegal to sell analog tuners |
| [15:36:48] | GreyFoxx: | I am switching providers by the end of the summer. I just need to decide if I will get some hd-pvrs or look at the r5000 stuff |
| [15:36:59] | bchapman: | sphery: yep – seem to be around $75 with the second bracket. |
| [15:37:15] | wagnerrp: | GreyFoxx: well you could argue that they DO bypass drm |
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| [15:37:34] | wagnerrp: | as theyre hacking the hardware before the STB has the chance to re-encrypt with HDCP |
| [15:37:46] | sphery: | and they provide a means for users who bypass DRM to explain away their access to otherwise off-limits video |
| [15:38:14] | wagnerrp: | however i still consider that method completely within the realm of fair use |
| [15:38:14] | GreyFoxx: | With the R5000 you do not get access to off-limits video |
| [15:38:20] | GreyFoxx: | wagnerrp: yeah |
| [15:38:30] | wagnerrp: | right, since you still only get what your STB is authorized to decrypt |
| [15:38:30] | GreyFoxx: | you still need a valid subscription to the channel |
| [15:38:48] | sphery: | GreyFoxx: no, but users who set up soft-cam for DISH network can then say, "I have a high-bitrate H.264 stream--think R5000" |
| [15:39:00] | sphery: | then people assume they're paying for it, but they're not |
| [15:39:01] | GreyFoxx: | ahh yeah |
| [15:39:10] | GreyFoxx: | well there will always be those |
| [15:39:17] | GreyFoxx: | no reason to penalize legit users :) |
| [15:39:20] | sphery: | but, anyway, the whole hardware hacking seems to be grey enough that it worries me |
| [15:39:26] | GreyFoxx: | otherwise (for you americans) get rid of all guns |
| [15:39:34] | GreyFoxx: | cause SOMEONE is gonna be a bad boy with one :) |
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| [15:39:55] | GreyFoxx: | sphery: And toally uneeded |
| [15:40:06] | wagnerrp: | GreyFoxx: have you seen the 'stab-proof' knives theyre trying to push in England? |
| [15:40:06] | GreyFoxx: | if they all provided working firewire outputs or similar |
| [15:40:12] | GreyFoxx: | wagnerrp: hehe no |
| [15:40:24] | sphery: | GreyFoxx: yeah... gotta get DISH to do that--firewire or even hardware cam |
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| [15:40:38] | wagnerrp: | the tip only protrudes about half an inch, so you can cut on a board like a normal knife |
| [15:40:54] | wagnerrp: | but then it has a blunt tip extending out past it, so you cant stab someone (more than about half an inch) |
| [15:41:15] | wagnerrp: | of course thats not to say you cant slice someone up pretty good |
| [15:41:24] | sphery: | GreyFoxx: When I cancelled my DISH subscription they asked why... I explained that I had loved the service they provided and was very happy with the subscription, but because I could not get access to their high-definition content on my computer, it was no longer useful for me. |
| [15:41:43] | GreyFoxx: | sphery: Did they respond to that ? |
| [15:41:53] | GreyFoxx: | or just an "oh, ok" |
| [15:42:19] | sphery: | just mainly tried to convince me that they have DVR's (which, funny enough, they may have to disable thanks to TiVo) that I could use |
| [15:42:54] | stoth: | sphery: Have they had to completely turn off the dvr functions yet? What's the story? |
| [15:43:04] | sphery: | I tried to explain that their DVR's wouldn't allow me to do seamless scheduling among 4 tuners with terabytes of storage, but the rep didn't seem to get it. |
| [15:43:11] | GreyFoxx: | I'm tempted to call Bell and ask about cams and firewire outputs to record to my computer. I know they will say too bad, and then I'll say ... ok, so I'll just subscribe and run a software cam/cam server just to see what they say :) Should be a funny converstation at least :) |
| [15:43:24] | ajh: | Thanks to Tivo? |
| [15:43:33] | GreyFoxx: | tivo sued them and won |
| [15:43:35] | ajh: | Or thanks to Dish being law-breakers |
| [15:43:38] | sphery: | stoth: last I heard, they were told to disable it on all but some 20K STB's. I'm sure there are appeals/whatever that prevent them from having to do it, yet. |
| [15:43:41] | ajh: | Blame the ones in the wrong. |
| [15:44:00] | wagnerrp: | sphery: but you can schedule a recording from your cell phone!!! |
| [15:44:11] | sphery: | ah, yeah... |
| [15:44:21] | wagnerrp: | you can search listings from your office meeting |
| [15:44:33] | wagnerrp: | mythtv certainly has no way to do that |
| [15:44:39] | sphery: | TiVo patented prior art that's completely obvious |
| [15:44:53] | GreyFoxx: | wagnerrp: mythweb with the wifi/mini skin |
| [15:44:53] | sphery: | so, I guess, I should say, "Thanks to the US PTO." |
| [15:44:59] | GreyFoxx: | use your phone and so on |
| [15:45:04] | ajh: | sphery, no they did not, since the court determined they did not. |
| [15:45:17] | ajh: | Sad but true. |
| [15:45:51] | GreyFoxx: | I should setup some sort of SMS -> Mythtv gateway hehe |
| [15:46:32] | ajh: | Has anyone talked to OIN about Myth and the various patents yet? |
| [15:46:44] | wagnerrp: | GreyFoxx: im being facetious, although dish doesnt offer programming over SMS do they? i thought it was just WAP like mythweb |
| [15:47:29] | GreyFoxx: | wagnerrp: No, I was just thinking that I could setup my own SMS gateway |
| [15:47:40] | GreyFoxx: | though to be honest it wouldn't be something I would use that much |
| [15:47:42] | gbee: | Sky etc in the UK offer SMS scheduling, so it's not unprecedented |
| [15:47:56] | GreyFoxx: | hmmm |
| [15:48:10] | GreyFoxx: | Wonder how hard it would be to setup a global sms -> myth gateway |
| [15:48:20] | GreyFoxx: | determine the backend to talk to based on the source # |
| [15:48:31] | sphery: | wagnerrp: I know that DirecTV has a commercial about scheduling through the cell phone. I figured dish has similar (though it's probably the web page approach). |
| [15:48:44] | wagnerrp: | oh, it was directv, not dish |
| [15:49:13] | gbee: | GreyFoxx: something SD could offer as a sweetner? |
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| [15:49:51] | GreyFoxx: | Something like that yeah |
| [15:50:25] | GreyFoxx: | You register your BE, (some dyndns/constant polling or whatever), register the source cell # to your account |
| [15:50:55] | GreyFoxx: | use sms to check upcoming listings, add recordings, get info about the box and info on your SD account ? |
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| [15:51:28] | sphery: | and deal with all the network-specific peculiarites of SMS (message length, content, ... :) |
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| [15:52:31] | GreyFoxx: | Users could choose to get responses via email if they wish? |
| [15:52:39] | GreyFoxx: | Heck even allow for submissions via email |
| [15:52:55] | sphery: | sounds cool |
| [15:53:38] | jams: | better get cracking on making that powerpoint presentation for the SD board. |
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| [15:53:45] | GreyFoxx: | heh |
| [15:54:16] | sphery: | or post a design doc on the wiki with a message to -dev and -users asking someone to write it for you |
| [15:54:28] | GreyFoxx: | haha yeah |
| [15:54:31] | GreyFoxx: | that was funny |
| [15:54:31] | jams: | thats even better |
| [15:56:04] | GreyFoxx: | the entire "touch screen" interface could be done as a ajax enabled webpage |
| [15:56:39] | GreyFoxx: | using a combination telnet control/mythproto method for talking to the backend |
| [15:57:23] | GreyFoxx: | haven't read their design proposal though so I don't know what they had id mind |
| [15:59:04] | sphery: | for some reason one of the things they want is to have the OSD stuff (controls + title/subtitle/description) on a remote device while playing the recording on the TV |
| [15:59:26] | jams: | it could be useful |
| [15:59:40] | sphery: | So, I guess these people would watch their remotes, missing the part of the recording that plays while they're looking for info/description/ffwd'ing/rew'ing/... |
| [16:00:04] | jams: | yes |
| [16:00:12] | sphery: | Kind of like saying, "Let take the HUD from this F-16 and put it on controls beneath the windscreen..." |
| [16:00:41] | sphery: | (of course, I should mention my hate of smart remotes, too) |
| [16:01:44] | jams: | it's better for when the passenger wants to know what the movie is about. That why the pilot doesn't have to clutter up the screen with information that is already known. |
| [16:02:14] | sphery: | heh, so you get a different smart remote for each person watching TV? :) |
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| [16:02:22] | sphery: | then have remote wars |
| [16:02:50] | jams: | only one needed. just pass the puck around. but leave the non-smart remote with the pilot =) |
| [16:03:57] | jams: | or maybe have it display info only, and not give it any sort of control over the main ui |
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| [16:05:33] | jams: | hmm, it would need the ability to select a FE |
| [16:05:47] | jams: | good way to keep tabs on what others inthe house may be watching |
| [16:06:12] | jams: | thats both good & bad |
| [16:06:23] | sphery: | heh |
| [16:06:40] | jams: | but now i'm talking to myself like clever, so I will stop. |
| [16:07:10] | sphery: | difference is you're doing it when no one else is having a discussion. :) |
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| [16:07:24] | sphery: | instead of interleaving yours into theirs |
| [16:07:33] | jams: | true |
| [16:07:39] | jduggan: | i havent seen that dude in a while, has he gone awol |
| [16:07:53] | jams: | i'm just attempting to boost my ranking on the stats page for this channel. |
| [16:08:02] | stuarta: | pfft |
| [16:09:19] | sphery: | so, the Schedules Direct subscription is one area where having the year always makes sense (as there have been users saying that the update isn't seen, but that's just because they don't realize that July 2 is a Thu in 2009 and a Fri in 2010. |
| [16:09:48] | sphery: | But if we use the specified Date Format (as we currently do), not all users have specified a Date Format with a year. |
| [16:10:31] | sphery: | (Interestingly enough, having year for recording start time in Watch Recordings makes sense, too, but unfortunately, the ShortDateFormat does not allow specifying a year.) |
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| [16:16:25] | jams: | sphery- would it makes sense to have ShortDateFormat show the year when it differs from the current year? |
| [16:16:51] | sphery: | jams: that's a good approach... kind of like ls -l does |
| [16:16:58] | sphery: | just wondering where to insert the year, now |
| [16:16:58] | jams: | yeah |
| [16:17:44] | sphery: | i.e. if I mod the ShortDateFormat to add a year, do I put it first or last... (as 2009/06/29 is sometimes preferred over 06/29/2009) |
| [16:17:54] | jams: | Would be nice to have that ability in several places. like recording history or watch recordings |
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| [16:19:24] | jams: | maybe display 09 as it is called shortdateformat =) |
| [16:20:00] | sphery: | that's true |
| [16:21:06] | jams: | only reason i suggest that is because 09 is easier to squeeze into a theme then 2009 |
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| [16:27:49] | sphery: | jams: what do you mean another option to an existing setting? Like try to get all the combos of "M/d or Y/M/d" and "M/d or M/d/Y"? That would make a long list. |
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| [16:28:40] | jams: | just asking no real thoughs either way |
| [16:28:48] | jams: | that would make a long list |
| [16:28:54] | gbee: | we could add another setting but inherit values, I'm trying to picture what the desktops like KDE offer in terms of locale formats |
| [16:29:07] | sphery: | yeah, I appreciate the input... I really don't have any good ideas for it. |
| [16:29:46] | gbee: | e.g. long_date_year = {long_date}, $year |
| [16:30:34] | gbee: | might not hurt to overhaul the date format stuff, but I really don't have a neat solution in mind |
| [16:32:15] | superdump: | i'm jumping in mid conversation but in terms of an interface one could either let it be manually configurable (i.e. a text input box) or have drop downs for components of the date and let the user select from yYmMdD or so for each |
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| [16:32:39] | superdump: | i don't know if that's a relevant comment :) |
| [16:33:02] | jams: | i like the drop down, but the text input box is asking for trouble |
| [16:34:14] | sphery: | OK. For now, I'll just do a little patch to always include year for SD. Looking at the potential date formats without year, I'd say just adding "(2010)" would be descriptive enough and not confuse too many users. Only question is whether to put year stuff at the end of the date but before the time or at the end of the date and time. |
| [16:34:47] | sphery: | superdump: yeah, for DateFormat, we have a select box with a list of 20 different formats from which the user selects. |
| [16:35:08] | jams: | sphery- one vote for "end of the date but before the time" |
| [16:35:11] | sphery: | making it more configurable would be nice |
| [16:36:26] | ** Dibblah wonders if the irony of me saying would non-devs please stop commenting on the -dev list would be lost ;) ** | |
| [16:37:04] | sphery: | jams: would be things like: Fri Jul 2 (2010) 08:23:00 or Fri 2 Jul (2010) 08:23:00 or Jul 2 (2010) 08:23:00 or 07/02 (2010) 08:23:00 or whatever. Think that works for those? |
| [16:37:25] | sphery: | I think it would be weird to have it without parens for ones like 07/02 2010 |
| [16:37:41] | superdump: | ISO! :D |
| [16:38:21] | meshe: | 2010-07–02 08:23:00 |
| [16:38:38] | meshe: | largest unit to smallest unit |
| [16:39:18] | sphery: | yeah, I was thinking I'd make it close to the user's preferred format and just add year when it differs from current and isn't selected in the user's preferred format |
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| [16:41:02] | jams: | the () look fine to me |
| [16:41:28] | jams: | truthfully either way seems ok |
| [16:44:51] | meshe: | yeah, actually, the (year) after the month day looks fine to me too |
| [16:45:40] | sphery: | I'll do that for now with a comment that the reviewing/committing dev can modify the format as desired. :) |
| [16:48:08] | meshe: | should probably also have the ability to put a strftime format string in for full customization :) I know, I know, patches are appreciated ;) |
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| [16:48:52] | sphery: | well, we're limited by Qt: http://doc.qtsoftware.com/4.4/qdatetime.html#toString |
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| [16:50:00] | meshe: | time = Qt::String.new(Time.now.strftime('%H:%M')) ;) |
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| [16:51:23] | meshe: | actually, looking at that link, it's probably more readable than strftime formatters |
| [16:57:18] | sphery: | Apologies to SD... I'll have to run mythfilldatabase once on my dev box to get the updated status message/test the new code. (Once assuming it works, that is. :) |
| [17:00:23] | sphery: | DataDirect Status: Your subscription expires on Mon Jun 21 (2010) 10:20 PM |
| [17:00:26] | sphery: | cool |
| [17:03:21] | meshe: | nice :) |
| [17:04:38] | jams: | looks good |
| [17:04:58] | sphery: | turns out I'm running mfdb 3x to test with year and without year in DateFormat and with expiration year the same as current year |
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| [17:08:34] | sphery: | DataDirect Status: Your subscription expires on Mon 29 June 1:08 PM |
| [17:08:40] | sphery: | works all 3 ways |
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| [17:12:00] | meshe: | cool |
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| [17:59:20] | gbee: | sphery: small point, but [18444] didn't change it to use the user defined date, it was already doing that |
| [18:00:06] | gbee: | I'm probably still "to blame" but it wasn't that commit :) |
| [18:01:08] | gbee: | ah, it was [18443] and a related changeset |
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| [18:12:19] | sphery: | gbee: Sorry... Copied the wrong link from #5323. But, you're not to blame. You did exactly as the users requested--use the date format I specify. The problem was that users then have to realize that they're not specifying a year, so... |
| [18:12:30] | sphery: | So, the users are to blame. :) |
| [18:14:11] | ** kormoc sings the blame the users song, to the tune of blame Canada ** | |
| [18:14:32] | sphery: | heh |
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| [19:10:28] | ubun2Junky: | was wondering if anyone has had any success getting hdmi video and audio to work to an lcd? |
| [19:10:58] | gbee: | lots and lots of people |
| [19:10:59] | juski: | I seriously doubt anybody ever has. I mean. Connecting computers to televisions.. what kind of witchcraft?! |
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| [19:12:21] | ubun2Junky: | i've just been reading that on board hdmi is not pushing sound. Was just wondering if that was still the case. (Been reading old forums) |
| [19:12:31] | SHADOW_V: | Thats Madness |
| [19:12:42] | meshe: | ubun2Junky: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . rch_type=AND |
| [19:13:08] | ubun2Junky: | thx meshe! |
| [19:13:31] | juski: | depends completely on the video card and/or driver support ;-) |
| [19:13:38] | gbee: | umm I've been using hdmi audio with an onboard mobo for two years ... could have been longer, but that's when I bought the TV ... |
| [19:13:42] | meshe: | gossamer threads + search box == answers :) |
| [19:14:03] | meshe: | there's lots of discussion on the users list about it |
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| [19:15:20] | gbee: | of course it depends on the hardware and which drivers, but my ATi board works with both proprietary and open source drivers, and the nvidia board works with the binary driver too |
| [19:15:45] | ubun2Junky: | i'm looking at getting mATX mobo that has built in video and audio and would be supported by mythtv. didn't want to invest on a mobo that wouldn't work. I know nvidia has the best support for linux. so I was focusing on that. |
| [19:16:22] | juski: | it has nothing to do with mythtv |
| [19:16:33] | gbee: | yeah, not sure that nvidia line is true anymore, but whatever you are comfortable with |
| [19:16:34] | juski: | get it working in linux :) |
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| [19:17:08] | juski: | gawd I'm so bored I could code |
| [19:17:14] | gbee: | I'd certainly advocate nvidia if you are planning on watching AVC encoded HD |
| [19:17:33] | gbee: | juski: oooh! |
| [19:17:56] | juski: | wth. time to reboot into loonix |
| [19:18:12] | ubun2Junky: | what are you guys using? |
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| [19:20:43] | juski: | heroin. daily |
| [19:21:05] | juski: | oh distro-wise. ubuntu |
| [19:21:28] | ubun2Junky: | lol... i meant as far as hardware... anyone of you guys have video & audio over hdmi? |
| [19:21:38] | gbee: | MSI K9AGM3-F & ASUS M3N78 |
| [19:21:50] | juski: | no HD here yet. No rush either |
| [19:22:21] | GreyFoxx: | ubunt: slackware, and nvidia for all video output |
| [19:23:00] | gbee: | neither are in production AFAIK, former is ATi X1250 and latter is Nvidia 8200, both are AMD (well what else?) |
| [19:23:05] | ubun2Junky: | I'm currently running mythbuntu on my old little box. just wanted to upgrade hardware to support HD. Just didn't know what to get! |
| [19:23:08] | juski: | wheee. long time since I ran make on anything |
| [19:23:42] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: what sort of HD – Blu-ray, ATSC or DVB? |
| [19:24:20] | gbee: | or more technically, VC1, H.264 or Mpeg-2? |
| [19:25:33] | gbee: | VC1 or H.264 I'd definitely suggest getting Nvidia right now, since you'll benefit from hardware decoding, but for mpeg-2 it doesn't really matter |
| [19:25:37] | juski: | aha. this'll be why I couldn't find the variable button width patch on my other box. it wasn't there. LOL |
| [19:26:07] | ubun2Junky: | gbee, not sure what my tuner streams out, I have the HD5500 hd tuner card. As far as files, they vary... most are mkv, haven't taken a look at what type. |
| [19:26:10] | gbee: | and none of it matters if you get a fast enough multi-core processor, say anything above x2 2.5Ghz |
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| [19:27:07] | juski: | ubun2Junky: mpeg2 |
| [19:28:07] | juski: | as for mkv.. depends on the codec & bitrate used |
| [19:28:40] | ubun2Junky: | so there isn't a universal solution to make it compatible with all. |
| [19:29:35] | ubun2Junky: | this is the mobo I was looking at... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131318 |
| [19:29:50] | juski: | take it as read your mkv files are purloined, so they won't be as hard to play as native bluray & h.264 HD ;) |
| [19:30:34] | juski: | best off budgeting for as high end as you can, unlike the fools who ask for minimum specs ;) |
| [19:31:03] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: sure, go nvidia and everything will be just fine, but get a faster enough cpu and you can just as easily go ATi |
| [19:31:37] | juski: | FWIW I wouldn't bet my house on VDPAU delivering the goods for everything you'll ever want to play |
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| [19:31:55] | gbee: | faster enough? more tired than I thought |
| [19:32:09] | juski: | besides, it's always good to have plenty of CPU headroom :D |
| [19:32:33] | kothog: | right, live transcoding of that stuff requires some serious power. |
| [19:32:37] | ubun2Junky: | so the asus mobo with a fast cpu... RAM? |
| [19:32:40] | juski: | used to have a phut phut frontend which relied on video decoding hardware cos the CPU was too underpowered |
| [19:32:50] | kothog: | minimum 4GB these days |
| [19:32:51] | juski: | live transcoding? |
| [19:33:01] | kothog: | yeah.. for pushing out to.. ps3 say |
| [19:33:11] | ubun2Junky: | live transcoding, yup |
| [19:33:21] | juski: | mythtv doesn't do live transcoding |
| [19:33:28] | gbee: | yeah, personally I'd just get a 4850e or better 45W model, that should cope with h.264 or VC-1 (well it does here) |
| [19:33:40] | kothog: | mediatomb does and co-exists nicely with mythtv. |
| [19:34:08] | gbee: | 4850e is dirt cheap, fantastic value for money |
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| [19:34:11] | juski: | aww is the pee-ess-free too lame to play proper HD? :-O |
| [19:35:04] | kothog: | juski: nah it does just fine with h264 and mpeg-2 and so on. but it won't play mkv or intel iv codec or weird lame stuff that hangs around long after it should've died. |
| [19:35:13] | juski: | heheh |
| [19:35:27] | gbee: | oh sorry, live transcoding, umm you'll want something more powerful maybe, towards 3Ghz, or at least four core |
| [19:35:38] | ubun2Junky: | so processor will resolve the "hang" issue? |
| [19:35:47] | ubun2Junky: | gbee, what exactly is "live transcoding". |
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| [19:36:15] | ubun2Junky: | basically... want to see hd tv and playback my mkv files that I' |
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| [19:36:28] | juski: | transcoding video on the fly in real-time |
| [19:36:28] | ubun2Junky: | ve downloaded from torrent. |
| [19:36:30] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: converting the original video from one format to another that can be played by devices like the PS3 |
| [19:36:36] | juski: | ubun2Junky: don't talk about that here |
| [19:36:43] | ubun2Junky: | sry! |
| [19:36:58] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: ok, you won't need to worry about live transcoding then |
| [19:37:08] | ubun2Junky: | gbee, like handbrake. |
| [19:37:42] | juski: | are videos transcoded in real time up to much? thought decent encodes had to be 2-pass |
| [19:37:56] | juski: | guess it's better than not being able to watch em at all |
| [19:38:17] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: sure, but in realtime – i.e. it plays back as it's converting |
| [19:38:20] | juski: | jees how long is it since I last built trunk? |
| [19:38:49] | juski: | ah. about 5 months |
| [19:39:30] | gbee: | juski: seems to me like you'd just want to transcode them fullstop, quite why you'd want to realtime transcode/stream rather than converting the original ... |
| [19:39:52] | gbee: | e.g. if the PS3 handles AVC, just convert all the videos to AVC, problem solved |
| [19:39:57] | juski: | to keep teh full kwaliteh! |
| [19:40:11] | gbee: | hehe |
| [19:40:42] | gbee: | you've already sacrificed the quality by pirating the material in a highly compressed format in the first place |
| [19:41:00] | juski: | always wondered that. just convert & tor... erm.. cough.. in a format consoles can play in the 1st place |
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| [19:43:57] | ubun2Junky: | is blue-ray an option for linux yet? |
| [19:45:21] | juski: | nope. well not in terms of playing it back from the disk natively |
| [19:45:37] | juski: | though I believe inroads are being made towards that |
| [19:46:22] | ubun2Junky: | so no point in investing in blue-ray player just yet... |
| [19:52:39] | ubun2Junky: | amd vs intel for cpu matter with linux? I've only used amd in the past, just curious? |
| [19:52:56] | laga: | whatever suits you |
| [19:53:11] | ubun2Junky: | linux supports drivers for both? |
| [19:53:26] | meshe: | heh |
| [19:53:49] | meshe: | yup |
| [19:53:50] | laga: | ubun2Junky: both support the x86 instruction set + relevant extension ;) |
| [19:54:01] | laga: | i'd be more worried about drivers for the chips on the motherboard |
| [19:55:14] | ubun2Junky: | laga, most of the mobo i've used in the past have the via chipset... I know that worked well.. but you're saying there are others out there that aren't supported. |
| [19:55:28] | gbee: | and there is no need to worry about the M3N78-* in that regard, it's well supported |
| [19:55:33] | laga: | i'm not sure if VIA is still making chipsets ;) |
| [19:55:55] | ubun2Junky: | laga... can you tell how old my mobo are!!! ;) |
| [19:56:06] | meshe: | my worst linux experience was with a via board |
| [19:56:20] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: a small number of boards have features which aren't well supported, e.g. the usb bus is flaky on some nvidia chipset boards |
| [19:56:45] | gbee: | that's nvidia chipset on Intel boards |
| [19:56:56] | gbee: | iirc, could be wrong |
| [19:57:30] | gbee: | maybe it's not even the nvidia chipset which is flaky, I can't really recall |
| [19:58:09] | ubun2Junky: | hmm.. research... research... research.! |
| [19:58:11] | gbee: | either way, a lot of people are using the M3N78-VM etc for MythTV frontends |
| [19:58:24] | ubun2Junky: | that's msi? |
| [19:58:30] | gbee: | Asus |
| [19:58:54] | jams: | its a good board |
| [19:59:05] | ubun2Junky: | should also work if I use it as front/back end? |
| [19:59:15] | ubun2Junky: | just need more processing power and ram perhaps. |
| [19:59:45] | gbee: | ubun2Junky: aye, works fine for a combined system, but in the MATX for it's a little lacking in PCI slots for most people |
| [19:59:50] | gbee: | form |
| [20:00:47] | ubun2Junky: | yeah... two pci cards... not very forgiving... just enough for my hd5500 and pvr-150! |
| [20:01:29] | meshe: | backends don't take very much cpu/memory, both of my combined fe/be boxes have 1GB ram or less |
| [20:02:08] | ubun2Junky: | can't run backend on vmware server could you? |
| [20:03:08] | meshe: | i don't think it would have access to the tuner cards |
| [20:03:18] | meshe: | you may get away with it with an HD Homerun |
| [20:04:36] | jams: | i'm amazed at the number of people who want to run the backend in vmware |
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| [20:09:41] | juski: | I'm not. sheer bandwagonism |
| [20:09:47] | gbee: | it's a craze |
| [20:09:54] | Dagmar: | It's because they're cowards |
| [20:10:28] | Dagmar: | THey know they're just going to screw things up by floundering ahead full-tilt without reading a lick of instructions, so they want to be sure they don't destroy their precious Windows install |
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| [20:11:10] | wagnerrp: | im amazed at the number of people wanting to run vmware |
| [20:11:20] | juski: | everything is cooler when you run it in a VM |
| [20:11:47] | wagnerrp: | well... except everything runs hotter because you waste a crapton of CPU |
| [20:12:22] | juski: | for best results, run it inside a VM within a VM running gentoo on archlinux |
| [20:12:27] | laga: | i wouldn't mind running the backend virtualized so i can upgrade the host (my desktop) without breaking things |
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| [20:13:18] | wagnerrp: | why not run it on its own machine? |
| [20:13:30] | juski: | that's not cool enough! |
| [20:13:31] | wagnerrp: | something so you could turn your desktop off, or standby it when its not in use |
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| [20:14:42] | ubun2Junky: | My stack of pc's is quickly accumulating! Along with the power bill... that's why I'd consider virtualizing. |
| [20:15:11] | juski: | why not just replace them with a decent box? |
| [20:15:32] | laga: | wagnerrp: my backend turns off when it's not in use – unless i use it as a desktop |
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| [20:15:48] | laga: | wagnerrp: my room is not big enough to just throw more hardware at the problem |
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| [20:16:18] | juski: | running routers / firewalls etc on old 486 machines is a false economy anyway |
| [20:16:26] | ubun2Junky: | Well... that's what I did... took all of those crappy boxes and invested in a single server and thew all the images on there... Now just one box running ubuntu and vmware server and all my images. |
| [20:17:01] | Dagmar: | If you were a competent admin you would only need one server instance, so you woudlnt' need VMware. |
| [20:17:08] | juski: | most things are probably stable enough not to need to run in VMs anyway. mythbackend included |
| [20:17:14] | jduggan: | lmfao |
| [20:17:19] | ** jduggan doesnt comment @ Dagmar ** | |
| [20:17:26] | jduggan: | ;] |
| [20:17:46] | Dagmar: | I've only been doing this for like fifteen years. |
| [20:17:50] | jduggan: | same |
| [20:18:05] | Dagmar: | If I haven't effing learned some things that I can aver by now, someone needs to replant me. |
| [20:18:05] | superdump: | mine's 9" |
| [20:18:53] | Dagmar: | superdump: I'm not trying to make some epeen argument |
| [20:19:18] | juski: | ooo control-freakery. never thought of that |
| [20:19:21] | superdump: | nah, i'm not actually disparaged by the conversation |
| [20:19:32] | superdump: | i just dropped in, saw what was said and thought i'd make a funny |
| [20:19:33] | superdump: | :) |
| [20:19:35] | juski: | that & people actually like making life harder for themselves something |
| [20:19:43] | juski: | *sometimes |
| [20:19:43] | Dagmar: | I'm just sick of every time I say something that definitely comes from experience beyond what some people can even conceieve of, they seem to have that idiotic egalitarian response kick in, and think I'm "just like them" |
| [20:20:02] | superdump: | fair does |
| [20:20:09] | gbee: | juski: I think there is a lot of truth in that, take the Gentoo craze |
| [20:20:49] | superdump: | it seems some people are fond of gentoo anyway and don't use it in some silly must optimise everything and set every use flag under the sun kind of way |
| [20:20:51] | juski: | give em a bunch of easy to install distros & what happens? ;-) |
| [20:21:24] | meshe: | vmware, virtualbox, zen, $vm – are great for testing and development |
| [20:21:31] | Dagmar: | superdump: Those people appear to be hte minority case for Gentoo users |
| [20:21:39] | superdump: | quite possibly :) |
| [20:22:33] | gbee: | superdump: even without that attitude, for some reason they'd still waste their time waiting hours for things to compile, I can't get my head around that anymore even if there was one point in my life where I was just the same |
| [20:22:44] | laga: | gbee: same here. :) |
| [20:22:56] | superdump: | one of the two x264 devs and one of the main ffmpeg devs both use gentoo |
| [20:22:59] | laga: | although gentoo can be fun for building minimalist things |
| [20:23:04] | juski: | I sure hope everybody running gentoo has suitably optimised hardware. no point OMGOPTIMISING everything if your RAM isn't all matched etc |
| [20:23:10] | superdump: | the latter had a core 2 quad and then a core i7 920 |
| [20:23:24] | superdump: | dunno what the x264 dev had, some core 2 at least |
| [20:23:28] | ** jduggan uses gentoo for its hardened branch ** | |
| [20:23:32] | Dagmar: | superdump: Yeah, but we can somewhat tell they're hardcore because of what they're devving. For them, having that framework nearby would be useful |
| [20:24:02] | superdump: | as opposed to the average desktop user just browsing the net and whatnot you mean |
| [20:24:02] | superdump: | ? |
| [20:24:03] | Dagmar: | What fancy CPU they run it on doesn't matter in the least. |
| [20:24:21] | Dagmar: | Yes, the "average" gentoo user's "development cycle" goes something like this... |
| [20:24:27] | Dagmar: | #1. Hear of new nifty sounding package |
| [20:24:33] | juski: | hahaha. Wimbledon 1 – Eastenders 0 |
| [20:24:34] | janneg: | and a rather unactive mythtv developer too |
| [20:24:36] | Dagmar: | #2. Find ebuild for said package |
| [20:24:39] | laga: | pulseaudio? ;) |
| [20:24:41] | superdump: | juski: :D |
| [20:24:43] | Dagmar: | #3. Google for more USE flags |
| [20:24:54] | Dagmar: | #4. Incorporate every USE flag at once into the ebuild. |
| [20:24:55] | laga: | janneg: doesn't danielk as well? |
| [20:25:03] | Dagmar: | #5. Recompile for omgoptimization |
| [20:25:09] | superdump: | hehe |
| [20:25:12] | janneg: | and things hardly take hours to compile these days |
| [20:25:13] | juski: | isn't it about time the BBC moved the sport around rather than regular programming damnit? |
| [20:25:15] | Dagmar: | I'm not kidding about that |
| [20:25:28] | laga: | janneg: kde? |
| [20:25:35] | Dagmar: | The number of times I've seen -funroll-loops and -malign-jumps in builds where it has no effect at all is horrifying |
| [20:25:35] | superdump: | juski: you mean like having BBC Sport or something? |
| [20:25:41] | superdump: | it'd make sense |
| [20:25:52] | juski: | I mean like putting sport that overruns on another channel |
| [20:26:00] | Dagmar: | They're literally just pasting all the crap they saw mentioned on the web, crossing their fingers, and asusming it doesn something useful |
| [20:26:05] | superdump: | they used to shove it on BBC 2 |
| [20:26:20] | juski: | who gives a damn anyway. it's not as if Murray is going to *win* anything |
| [20:26:26] | superdump: | lol |
| [20:26:28] | kormoc: | janneg, I'm not /that/ inactive! |
| [20:26:48] | juski: | though he's obliged to at least make it to the semis – for maximum disappointment |
| [20:26:50] | kormoc: | gbee, I don't wait for things to compile, I start them and do other things and check in later |
| [20:27:09] | janneg: | kormoc: I was speaking of myself |
| [20:27:42] | superdump: | Dagmar: i think that's a general average user tactic (copy and paste from the web), but i suppose it's more unnerving when they're actually compiling stuff |
| [20:27:51] | kormoc: | ahh, I'm also a gentoo user |
| [20:27:53] | juski: | right. now I need a portable HDD with some recordings on it, and an export of some database stuff so I can play |
| [20:28:28] | superdump: | and the gcc people complain about people using extra cflags saying that if something breaks and they use those flags then its their own fault, especially on non-x86 archs |
| [20:28:29] | juski: | arghhh pulseaudio! |
| [20:28:38] | gbee: | kormoc: sure, but in that time you don't have the machine to work on, you want a new app installed or an upgrade and it becomes something you plan your whole day/evening/weekend around rather than a 60 second blip |
| [20:29:33] | gbee: | and individual apps might not take hours (OOO apart) but altogether it's hardly a productive use of your time |
| [20:29:59] | gbee: | anyway, that's just my opinion and I'm sure there are others :) |
| [20:30:14] | juski: | apt-get remove pulseaudio oughtta do it |
| [20:30:18] | superdump: | depends how often one updates i suppose |
| [20:30:20] | kormoc: | gbee, erm... given I never wait, nor do I plan around my app installs, I'd hardly say I've ever lost time, infact I'd say I've gained time not fighting with the distro |
| [20:30:27] | juski: | removing ubuntu-desktop? WTF?! |
| [20:30:41] | Dagmar: | juski: Sounds like progress. ;) |
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| [20:30:42] | laga: | juski: that's just a meta package |
| [20:30:56] | superdump: | doesn't trunk disable pulse and then re-enable it afterwards now? |
| [20:31:05] | kormoc: | I spent at least three hours getting ubuntu to install the nvidia drivers, as it needed a kernel update before it would install, but would it tell me that? no..... |
| [20:31:21] | kormoc: | superdump, it trys to, but it doesn't always work |
| [20:31:33] | superdump: | ah |
| [20:31:37] | gbee: | kormoc: so you want to install an application to use right now, you don't have to wait instead? |
| [20:31:43] | superdump: | depends what version of pulse one is running or...? |
| [20:32:03] | juski: | crap/. uninstalled it, still running. tried stopping it.. and mythfrontend still says it's running |
| [20:32:03] | kormoc: | gbee, If I don't have it already, I can do something else while waiting, as it's not critical |
| [20:32:13] | juski: | which it is. GRRR |
| [20:32:26] | gbee: | might have to remove myself from the channel unless I can resist prolonging a discussion that really isn't all that interesting to me .... :/ |
| [20:32:47] | kormoc: | gbee, also, remember, I installed gentoo back in 2002, I haven't installed it sense, just updated and changed arches a few times live, I've saved a lot of time not dealing with distro re-installs |
| [20:32:54] | kormoc: | fair 'nuff.... |
| [20:33:18] | juski: | killall pulseaudio :D |
| [20:33:27] | gbee: | all I said is that I don't understand it and I still don't :) |
| [20:34:01] | kormoc: | Heh, all I know is I can install a gentoo box with mysql and apache faster then a base centos install + setup :) |
| [20:34:17] | kormoc: | especially if it's on a cluster, |
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| [20:35:10] | gbee: | then again, I've never really had to fight with a distro in a way that using Gentoo would solve, maybe if my experience had been different |
| [20:35:29] | ** laga using arch now ** | |
| [20:35:33] | ** laga not fighting at all ** | |
| [20:35:44] | kormoc: | gbee, Here's a good example, install Apache with the SNI patches, see how long that takes ya |
| [20:35:47] | laga: | because there is nothing to fight – which means i gotta do lots of stuff myself :) |
| [20:35:58] | kormoc: | or mysql with the google patches + GIS + xtradb |
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| [20:36:19] | laga: | juski: chmod -x pulseaudio? then use chattr to make sure nobody can change the permissions? might bork packages upgrades.. |
| [20:36:39] | juski: | uninstalling it & killing it dead should have been enough I'd have thought |
| [20:36:51] | juski: | see what happens when I next long in |
| [20:36:53] | juski: | *log in |
| [20:36:55] | gbee: | kormoc: heh, but I don't need those now nor am I ever likely to on a desktop |
| [20:36:57] | laga: | you need to watch moar zombie movies |
| [20:37:30] | juski: | what are packagers doing including crap like pulseaudio anyway? |
| [20:37:43] | meshe: | where's sphery, he gave me the link i used to remove pulse from my trunk box |
| [20:37:55] | kormoc: | gbee, Heh, I do that stuff *all* the time, roll in new patches, roll out patches, etc. A package based distro eats up way more time then copying a file to a dir and running a command |
| [20:38:19] | kormoc: | gbee, even down to the kernel level, my kernels are rarely vanilla, just my own mix of patches I want |
| [20:38:56] | juski: | arghhh! MY EYES! My poor eyes! |
| [20:39:48] | gbee: | kormoc: fair enough, I've never said there weren't situations where people wouldn't have good reason to run gentoo, or maybe I implied that when I never meant to |
| [20:40:29] | gbee: | I was referring to all those running pretty standard desktops rather than the server admin |
| [20:41:20] | juski: | ouch. segfaulty :( |
| [20:41:27] | kormoc: | Fair 'nuff |
| [20:41:40] | juski: | 2009-06–29 21:40:25.880 Preview Error: Remote Preview failed, reason given: ERROR_UNKNOWN |
| [20:41:43] | juski: | Segmentation fault |
| [20:41:44] | gbee: | fwiw, few distros I've tried run vanilla kernels either, the packagers throw in a lot of useful patches – but I know that's not what you meant |
| [20:42:10] | juski: | then again if I actually had the files on the machine... |
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| [20:42:31] | gbee: | eww, this beer tastes like lager |
| [20:42:34] | kormoc: | Heh, yeah, far to often I'd do up a custom kernel and the distro would 'update' me to a newer one and I lost my custom drivers... |
| [20:42:37] | laga: | gbee: huh? |
| [20:42:39] | kormoc: | Mmm... Lager... |
| [20:42:47] | juski: | just gave me an idea |
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| [20:42:54] | ** juski reaches for the Cachaca ** | |
| [20:43:05] | ** Dibblah votes in a bah humbug style for "Developer / Contributor" tags on the mythtv-dev mailing list. ** | |
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| [20:43:59] | juski: | Dibblah: what, so the world will be able to see how little real devs & contributors waste time posturing over trivia? |
| [20:44:32] | Dibblah: | No, so I don't have to remember so many damn mappings ;) |
| [20:44:47] | Dibblah: | IRC -> Trac is bad enough for me. |
| [20:45:21] | juski: | then again, been a while since I saw anyone diss the project because of something a 'dev' (i.e. somebody who posts on the -dev list) said |
| [20:45:30] | kormoc: | kormoc -> kormoc is bad enough? ;) |
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| [20:45:45] | gbee: | juski: yeah they just waste time arguing the merits of different distros and which GPUs people should be using in IRC |
| [20:46:04] | janneg: | Dibblah: convince the owner of janne to give his nick off and you have one problem less |
| [20:46:07] | gbee: | oh wait, guess we do waste time posturing over trivia ... |
| [20:46:41] | Dibblah: | Granted, most people are the same. |
| [20:46:45] | Dibblah: | Or similar. |
| [20:46:53] | Dibblah: | But I keep on making boo boos :( |
| [20:46:56] | kormoc: | Whatever |
| [20:47:04] | juski: | aha! found the old hack diff :D |
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| [20:47:25] | juski: | was worried I'd spat the dummy out on that one. glad I let it be |
| [20:47:29] | gbee: | kormoc: hey, that was a dig at myself, no-one else ;) |
| [20:47:52] | juski: | my old nemesis void MythUIType::CollapseArea(const MythRect &rect) |
| [20:48:37] | gbee: | if I spent even a third of the time I waste in IRC working on myth 0.22 would have been released already, so I'm feeling a little guilty about that right now |
| [20:48:59] | juski: | let's see if this still compiles |
| [20:50:35] | jams: | gbee- no need to feel guilty, you probably would be so burnt out that coding would stop altogher. |
| [20:51:36] | jblack: | gbee: yeah, jams is right. |
| [20:51:51] | juski: | never feel guilty :) |
| [20:51:55] | gbee: | laga: lager is a European style of beer which although popular in the UK is generally not as nice as traditional English Ales, hence why lager's are generally served cold – since cold kills the flavour |
| [20:51:59] | juski: | it's your free time |
| [20:52:11] | jblack: | burnout sucks in such terrible ways. Pace yourself, do it only when you want. |
| [20:52:22] | gbee: | bought this one as an ale, from a brewery which traditionally makes ale, but it tastes like Amstel or similar :/ |
| [20:52:27] | juski: | burnout 3 rocks though :D |
| [20:52:34] | juski: | eew Amstel |
| [20:56:44] | jblack: | Hrmmm. Madoff got 2.4 years in jail for each billion he stole. |
| [20:57:12] | jblack: | I'd do 2.5 years in jail for a billion. How do I sign up to be a jewish hedge manager? |
| [20:57:13] | juski: | hmmm. ended up patching files by hand. fail |
| [20:57:44] | juski: | still won't work I bet |
| [20:58:00] | gbee: | btw, taste in beer, like distros is all subjective and I've no intention of disparaging anyone's preference for lager |
| [20:58:23] | juski: | have to try & remember which theme I hacked with the variable width tag now |
| [20:58:42] | juski: | be nice if I can spread some joy for a change :) |
| [21:00:37] | CyberKnet: | Aaah, the joys of having a movie shoot right outside your office building. |
| [21:00:56] | juski: | oh bollocks. I deleted 'concept' |
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| [21:03:16] | juski: | still have the source svg file though, phew |
| [21:04:16] | juski: | and the vidcapped ogg I made. didn't suck so bad after all |
| [21:06:43] | juski: | hahaha I'd clean forgot about the animated icons I did |
| [21:07:01] | Dibblah: | gbee – If it wasn't for you, 0.22 would be a distant pipe dream. Or at least the mythUI migration part. |
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| [21:08:05] | juski: | animated rolling eyes for the 'watched' icon. So cheesy it's actually funny |
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| [21:10:47] | juski: | http://bit.ly/kD2uN – all the way from January this year. had no idea it was so long ago! |
| [21:13:31] | juski: | that almost sounds like it's back on. hem |
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| [21:17:05] | gbee: | heh |
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| [21:22:34] | Essobi: | G'night folks! |
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| [21:28:41] | juski: | must be caipirhina time again :D |
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| [21:29:00] | CoreDump is now known as CoreDump|cf-18 | |
| [21:29:50] | ** Dibblah recommends cairn o' mohr. ** | |
| [21:29:57] | Dibblah: | But only because it's local. |
| [21:30:17] | juski: | sounds gaelic |
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| [21:32:24] | juski: | fruity wine eh. not sampled any since my dad's home-made things. they failed. badly |
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| [21:32:41] | juski: | still – doesn't matter when the wine is corked, cos it doesn't taste any worse :P |
| [21:37:13] | juski: | hrm. same old problem. can't seem to make the button width = text width |
| [21:38:25] | sphery: | 3 cheers for [20761]!!! Hip! Hip! |
| [21:38:44] | XLV (XLV!n=XLV@unaffiliated/xlv) has quit ("Leaving") | |
| [21:39:17] | sphery: | (though I'd have preferred to see it moved to a sub menu) |
| [21:40:33] | juski: | the beginning of the end for livetv :D |
| [21:40:52] | sphery: | We really should change the wording to Watch LiveTV, too |
| [21:41:04] | juski: | Test Tuner Functionality |
| [21:41:08] | sphery: | as Watch TV implies (to the newbie) recorded TV, too |
| [21:41:13] | sphery: | I like that wording, better |
| [21:41:45] | ** Dibblah wonders how long until the revert request comes along :( ** | |
| [21:41:59] | juski: | let them eat fork |
| [21:42:09] | mgisbers is now known as mgisbers_away | |
| [21:42:33] | juski: | rah! I'd not deleted concept at all |
| [21:42:34] | laga: | yay |
| [21:42:42] | laga: | juski: you need moar backups |
| [21:42:44] | juski: | called it mythcon. what a doof |
| [21:42:54] | sphery: | Yay! My Stargate Atlantis Season 5 DVD's shipped! |
| [21:43:12] | juski: | laga: just need filenames which are more recognisable 6 months down the line |
| [21:43:27] | jblack: | Yeah. woot for 20761 |
| [21:44:01] | juski: | actually, 20761 is making a statement about the importance of 'live tv' if you think about it :D |
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| [21:44:12] | jblack: | or lack thereof.. :) |
| [21:44:19] | sphery: | 20761? |
| [21:44:26] | sphery: | oh... yeah, changest |
| [21:44:28] | sphery: | set |
| [21:44:29] | jblack: | Moves livtv to the end of the main menu list |
| [21:44:38] | jblack: | almost. second to last |
| [21:45:00] | sphery: | yeah... mentioned it minutes ago, but still didn't recognize the number |
| [21:45:28] | ** sphery goes back to drowning in apache web config ** | |
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| [21:45:59] | juski: | <!-- <button> <type>TV_WATCH_TV</type> .... --> :D |
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| [21:47:20] | meshe: | that's kinda funny actually |
| [21:47:24] | jblack: | I suppose the day is coming when mythfrontend will be replaced with mythweb. |
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| [21:47:52] | jblack: | In the distant future. |
| [21:48:03] | juski: | oh yeah, the flash-based UI. because slashdotters' opinions matter |
| [21:48:09] | laga: | clutter? :> |
| [21:48:29] | jblack: | give me credit. html5. :) |
| [21:48:29] | juski: | now there's a blast from the past laga |
| [21:48:46] | juski: | wonder whatever happened to clutter |
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| [21:49:41] | laga: | i think clutter itself is getting sponsored |
| [21:52:54] | jblack: | this mythstream plugin seems to be a mess |
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| [21:53:16] | juski: | lol |
| [21:53:26] | laga: | yes |
| [21:53:55] | juski: | doesn't take two shakes to figure out why it never made it to official plugin status |
| [21:54:16] | jblack: | bloody mess. Like if a full plane crashed into a commuter train. |
| [21:56:26] | juski: | hmm getting too late now. will take my laptop to work tomorrow & see if I can cajole some workingness out of my code hacks |
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| [21:59:46] | gbee: | hmm, I'd rename the option to "Watch Live TV", since simply moving it doesn't remove the confusion |
| [22:00:02] | CyberKnet (CyberKnet!n=cyberkne@64.207.247.98) has quit () | |
| [22:00:51] | juski: | bah. mythcon.bz2 is actually a db dump not 'concept'. meh |
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| [22:02:48] | bsdwarrior2: | trying to make mythvodka work under mythubuntu 9.04, mythvodka references qt3 mythubunutu references qt4, hence it bombs out. does anyone else have this working? |
| [22:03:39] | Dagmar: | hahahaha |
| [22:03:42] | Dagmar: | It will not work. |
| [22:04:02] | bsdwarrior2: | who is the developer or how can I find out? |
| [22:04:04] | laga: | it's spelled "mythbuntu" |
| [22:04:12] | Dagmar: | Dude you have the source. Look at it. |
| [22:04:16] | gbee: | need to change the QPATH env variable |
| [22:04:23] | Dagmar: | I'm sure there's a licence document in it or something that tells how to contact the author |
| [22:04:48] | bsdwarrior2: | Sounds like another grave plugin |
| [22:05:12] | juski: | ahh I have a copy of concept on my backend. sheesh I'm terrible |
| [22:06:51] | juski: | muhaha I made all the menu text vanish again |
| [22:07:11] | laga: | juski: you need a twitter account ;) |
| [22:07:18] | gbee: | mythtube or whatever it was called looked promising, at least it was the only one where the dev was working with mythui and working with the community |
| [22:07:30] | juski: | laga: I have one already |
| [22:07:35] | laga: | juski: oh god ;) |
| [22:07:36] | gbee: | but I don't know what happened to it, not heard anything for a while |
| [22:07:51] | Dagmar: | The version of MythStream I saw made me think the author should have his home checked for lead paint. |
| [22:08:04] | juski: | gbee: guy went off to concentrate on school, aka waiting for iamlindoro to fix it all up IIRC |
| [22:08:35] | Dagmar: | A UI should never, ever, operate asynchronously with the user. |
| [22:08:43] | gbee: | well he's got his priorities straight, so I can't hold it against him |
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| [22:10:03] | juski: | oof. I must really be off the map with ui changes |
| [22:10:13] | sphery: | gbee: agree about renaming it Watch LiveTV |
| [22:10:30] | Dagmar: | juski: Look for <gorilla> and <ruins> tags |
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| [22:12:16] | juski: | laga: yeah through twitter I learned how mythtv is dead :D |
| [22:12:42] | laga: | juski: i bet those journalists from iran told you? |
| [22:13:47] | juski: | heheh |
| [22:14:07] | sphery: | I heard the project devs are about to get sued by TiVo for patent infringement. |
| [22:14:57] | jroysdon (jroysdon!n=User@Ox.roysdon.org) has quit ("ttfn") | |
| [22:15:55] | gbee: | I'd like to announce my retirement from mythtv development |
| [22:16:30] | bsdwarrior2: | read it or heard it? |
| [22:17:09] | sphery: | making it up after someone asked earlier if we had contacted the patent owners about Myth |
| [22:17:16] | sphery: | think they were joking, too |
| [22:17:30] | meshe: | what patents? |
| [22:17:55] | meshe: | i'm sure none of the devs have ever heard of a patent that covers mythtv's functionality |
| [22:18:18] | gbee: | you can't patent software |
| [22:18:34] | sphery: | whatever patents they were defending when they sued Echostar (DISH network) and Echostar was told they had to disable all DVR functionality on their STB's |
| [22:18:50] | meshe: | sphery: shush :) |
| [22:19:38] | sphery: | I have no idea what the patents are--as I don't read patents--but I've heard them described as being obvious and heard that there's clear examples of prior art |
| [22:20:03] | ** meshe nods ** | |
| [22:20:43] | sphery: | correction... I've read one patent--the one that covers "Method of exercising a cat." Warning: following links to a patent: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5443036.html |
| [22:21:02] | meshe: | haha |
| [22:21:08] | sphery: | Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was hoping to find, "Method of exorcising a cat." |
| [22:21:35] | sphery: | That's actually a real patent in the US. If you use a laser pointer to exercise your cat, you need to pay the patent holder royalties. |
| [22:22:07] | meshe: | nice, what's the royalty? |
| [22:22:13] | laga: | no, i don't think you need to pay royalties if you do it privately |
| [22:22:48] | GreyFoxx: | sphery: you gotta b ekidding |
| [22:23:34] | sphery: | the patent's real... my understanding of patent law isn't |
| [22:23:37] | meshe: | sweet, i didn't violate this patent: directing a beam of invisible light |
| [22:23:45] | meshe: | the laser pointer i used was a red one |
| [22:24:15] | meshe: | and actually, why would a cat chase invisible light? |
| [22:24:25] | laga: | please don't make the kitties go blind |
| [22:26:03] | sphery: | all I can find about private use exceptions for patents is from the UK: http://ns3.patent.gov.uk/types/copy/c-other/c . . . cep-priv.htm |
| [22:26:29] | sphery: | though that's more related to copyright than patent |
| [22:27:16] | meshe: | ooooh, fair-dealing is awesome, pirate away :) |
| [22:28:12] | gbee: | heh, new Navy Carriers are already £1.1bn over budget and they've not even so much as cast a single rivet |
| [22:28:21] | sphery: | nice |
| [22:29:01] | gbee: | only a government could go over budget before they've even started work |
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| [22:33:50] | AndyCap: | speaking of carriers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6h8i8wrajA |
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| [22:41:38] | gbee: | heh, must have seen that the first time around, but didn't remember it |
| [22:43:42] | gbee: | sad thing is that two years later and we're already finding the F35-B is even less suitable and even more expensive than just fitting out the carriers with catapults and buying standard aircraft ... what a joke |
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| [23:10:16] | groogs: | Can anyone think of a reason not to buy one of the "older" MCE remotes (http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=S . . . ;pid=005774) – eg support going away, etc? I have two already, I'd prefer to keep all my remotes the same though |
| [23:13:03] | xris: | groogs: no reason I can think of to not get another.. except that logitech harmony remotes are nice and shiny (and expensive) |
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| [23:20:24] | stoth: | hey all. |
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