MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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Thursday, April 2nd, 2009, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:55] FrankBattaglia: there was a good article explaining why certains SSD's are slow, and how they all compare to hdd
[00:01:06] FrankBattaglia: I think it was on anandtech
[00:01:16] wagnerrp: yeah, came out a week or two ago
[00:02:43] FrankBattaglia: http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531
[00:03:00] sphery: cool
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[00:32:00] iamlindoro_: Jeez, Handbrake changes their build system more often than ffmpeg changes their command line arguments
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[00:34:42] C_Neufeld: Huh. Just got rid of a marketing person trying to interest me in their satellite dish PVRs. "It can record up to *200 minutes* of standard definition television!!!" "Yeah, can I copy the files to my laptop to watch them on the train?" "No, of course not."
[00:35:21] sphery: 200 minutes?
[00:35:28] C_Neufeld: That's what she said!
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[00:35:35] iamlindoro_: Must have meant hours and misread the script
[00:35:47] C_Neufeld: One does hope so, yes.
[00:35:47] sphery: pretty funny, though
[00:35:48] iamlindoro_: Unless they're sporting a 4 GB HDD
[00:36:44] sphery: I currently have some 750hrs recorded and have 1/3 of my available storage free
[00:37:53] C_Neufeld: The upgrade I've been enduring is part of the move to new SATA-capable hardware. I went from somewhat crowded to 2 TB yesterday morning.
[00:38:57] C_Neufeld: sphery : I've confirmed that the ivtv driver is working correctly on my box, I had a misconfiguration, but now I'm getting 0x69 packets out of the raw video stream on /dev/video*. So this is definitely a mythtv issue. I'll be spending some time in the source code and gdb this evening.
[00:40:41] sphery: 772 programs, using 3.9 TB (1 month 2 days 18 hrs 9 mins) out of 6 TB (2.1 TB free)
[00:40:53] sphery: So, I guess 796hrs
[00:42:50] C_Neufeld: OK, step 1 in the debugging. Run downstairs and check captions on 32-bits (I never had them on the 64-bit box, but that wasn't a big deal).
[00:42:51] sphery: interesting... Last I had access to a PVR-x50 recording, it worked (PVR-250, though).
[00:43:23] sphery: I had them on 64-bit frontends. Never had a 64-bit backend, though.
[00:43:43] sphery: Last recording I had on a PVR-x50 was probably 1 1/2 years ago.
[00:44:10] sphery: but it was trunk at the time, so close to 0.21.
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[00:45:55] C_Neufeld: So. A new recording with 0x69 packets, and the 32-bit box says it has no captions. Time to start digging in the source code. First, I'll try to fix it on 64-bits. If that works, I can rebuild it on the basement computer and see if the fixes work there, too.
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[00:47:31] sphery: Actually, it wasn't that long ago... It was the weekend of the last hurricane that hit here, so Sep 2008...
[00:47:46] sphery: So that was 0.21-fixes.
[00:48:20] sphery: er, Aug 7, 08
[00:49:37] C_Neufeld: Actually, that hurricane might have come through Ottawa too, but it was just heavy rain by the time we saw it. I remember that from last summer.
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[00:51:29] sphery: yeah, lots of flooding here--27.65 inches of rain--and lots of rain for everyone else in its path
[00:54:23] C_Neufeld: That's a lot of water! We got about that much snow in one night here a year ago, but snow is a lot easier to deal with (and 1 cm of snow is about as much water as 1 mm of rain).
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[00:56:15] sphery: yeah, fortunately the whole state of Florida is pretty much just a big sand bar--and what can't sink into the sand just rolls down to the ocean :) (Actually took about 2 days for the water to go down--mainly because of failed pumps in the sewer system--but that's not bad for that much water.)
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[01:02:19] wagnerrp: C_Neufeld: actually, its closer to 6:1
[01:04:10] C_Neufeld: wagnerrp : thanks, that's interesting. The 10:1 was just a rough guess. I'll use your value in the future.
[01:04:44] wagnerrp: i remember my childhood Mr Wizard episode... :)
[01:05:03] J-e-f-f-A: well, ain't that beautiful... my winblows system just BSOD'd in the middle of doing nothing... after running fine forever... jeeze... I'm gonna have to put Linux on that box!!!!!
[01:07:09] C_Neufeld: OK. First possibility. There's a call to gContext->GetSetting("VbiFormat") in NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp:266. That's field isn't present in the database, so the mode is being set to zero. That may or may not be the problem, the value of vbimode is a last-ditch check in NuppelVideoPlayer::SetCaptionsEnabled().
[01:07:28] C_Neufeld: Time to examine the database dump.
[01:07:42] sphery: 0 is none
[01:08:07] sphery: you told me you had the VbiFormat ("VBI Format") set in mythtv-setup, General settings page 2 Locale Settings
[01:08:21] C_Neufeld: sphery : and I do. I double-checked it.
[01:08:27] C_Neufeld: I suspect it's a name-change issue.
[01:08:38] C_Neufeld: When I upgraded, it asked for the name of the machine.
[01:08:55] C_Neufeld: I gave it the FQDN for my internal zone on my home network. The old database had only the bare name.
[01:09:02] sphery: programs/mythtv-setup/backendsettings.cpp +92
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[01:09:20] C_Neufeld: Unfortunately, that name was "mythtv". So I had to go running through the database dump looking for places where mythtv was the hostname, and change them to mythtv.i.cneufeld.ca
[01:09:24] sphery: yeah, sounds like it reset all settings to defaults
[01:09:39] C_Neufeld: And the string 'mythtv' appears in many, many, many places.
[01:09:49] sphery: hostname changes are /not/ good for Myth since myth is using the hostname as the unique identifier for DB settings
[01:10:07] C_Neufeld: sphery : yeah, as I discovered to my pain.
[01:10:15] sphery: the script at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore can do a hostname change even with "bad" hostnames, like mythtv
[01:10:23] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . d_or_backend
[01:10:52] sphery: However, it won't work, now, since you've already run a myth system with the new hostname (which created all the settings for that hostname)
[01:12:09] C_Neufeld: sphery : Yes. I only realized it was a problem after I started running things, and figured out that it considered "mythtv" and "mythtv.i.cneufeld.ca" to be distinct characters.
[01:12:15] sphery: though VbiFormat is a global setting, so the hostname should be NULL
[01:12:35] sphery: yeah, usually don't know until too late
[01:13:00] sphery: (though re-restoring the DB and /then/ doing the hostname change works--if you haven't recorded too much since you originally restored it)
[01:13:03] C_Neufeld: It's in the database, and it has a machine name.
[01:13:13] sphery: set hostname to NULL
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[01:13:22] sphery: all global settings should be NULL hostname
[01:14:05] C_Neufeld: This is in the "settings" table. That table is a triplet. value/data/hostname.
[01:14:15] C_Neufeld: Some of those are NULL, others are 'mythtv'
[01:14:24] C_Neufeld: I'll go through it in detail and see if that fixes things.
[01:14:34] C_Neufeld: Can't do it now, the machine's recording shows.
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[01:15:27] BeowulfBC: Anyone know of a way to adjust the brightness/contrast/hue/saturation values permanatly? I am using v4l2-ctl but it is not permanant
[01:15:51] sphery: DELETE FROM settings WHERE value = 'VbiFormat'; INSERT INTO settings VALUES ('VbiFormat', 'NTSC Closed Caption', NULL);
[01:16:00] sphery: C_Neufeld: should fix it ^^^
[01:16:23] iamlindoro_: Woohoooooooo! /me has completed the ripping script for his 200 DVD changer, and she's happily ripping away...
[01:16:36] sphery: BeowulfBC: go to LiveTV, hit G ("Recording Picture Controls"), then adjust... Permanently adjusts the channel you're on.
[01:17:04] BeowulfBC: Right but I want to permantly adjust the defaults
[01:17:07] sphery: BeowulfBC: then, if you want to duplicate those settings on all channels, go to MythWeb, Settings, Channels, and then edit the values for other channels to match that
[01:17:22] sphery: BeowulfBC: permanently adjust means--to me--in the recordings...
[01:17:31] BeowulfBC: Yes that as well
[01:17:51] BeowulfBC: I have found my PVR-150 to need a little more contrast and a little more brightness by default
[01:17:56] sphery: BeowulfBC: if you want to adjust the playback (leaving the recordings as they're currently recording), you hit 'F' ("Playback Picture Controls")
[01:18:08] sphery: BeowulfBC: but F is only supported on some video cards
[01:18:13] sphery: (generally old ones)
[01:18:40] BeowulfBC: OK thanks
[01:18:42] sphery: BeowulfBC: so use G, fix it on one channel, then adjust all channels to the same values using MythWeb
[01:18:52] sphery: otherwise, you're not fixing the recording
[01:18:52] BeowulfBC: OK thanks
[01:19:17] sphery: BeowulfBC: if you use v4l2-ctl, Myth will undo it the next time it sets up that capture card (i.e. channel change, new recording, ...)
[01:19:30] sphery: so that's why you have to use G to set it, so Myth knows to store it
[01:19:41] C_Neufeld: sphery : success on 64-bits, and I'm sure on 32-bit as well! Thank you greatly.
[01:19:47] BeowulfBC: Yeah I had figgered that I was just using v4l2-ctl to test it
[01:19:49] sphery: C_Neufeld: enjoy
[01:20:56] sphery: C_Neufeld: If I were you--since I'm obsessive about my DB having non-corrupt data--I would do a "spring cleaning" partial restore... I.e. backup your DB ( http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_and_Restore ), then do a partial restore including plugin data ( http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . _plugin_data )
[01:21:48] sphery: C_Neufeld: if you want to do a partial restore and /not/ do plugin data (i.e you want to regenerate that), you can use http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Database_Backup_an . . . _of_a_backup , but make sure you apply the patch at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6013
[01:22:41] sphery: if you do a partial restore, though, you'll have to reconfigure all your systems (backends and frontends and plugins)
[01:22:56] BeowulfBC: Here is a question I got a 30min show coming out at 1.4Gig before transcoding is that normal? Or should i crank back the bit rate a bit? I have 1TB of drive space so would rather take more space then sacrafice quality
[01:24:14] C_Neufeld: sphery : I think it's worth it. This bad non-null is probably not the only place where weirdness crept in, it's probably been there since the machine first started up. I'll take a few notes for things like the television scale/offset values, and flush the rest. I'll feel more comfortable with it after that's done.
[01:24:41] sphery: BeowulfBC: 4000kbps average/6000kbps max is a pretty good setting for MPEG-2 SDTV--that's the default for SDTV MPEG-2 encoders. Some say you can get a slightly sharper picture with more, but a lot depends on the cleanliness of the source signal you're recording\.
[01:25:51] sphery: BeowulfBC: I'm guessing you have it at the defaults (as that sounds about like 4Mbps/6Mbps size). I used to record at 2200kbps/4500kbps and got /terrible/ quality, but NTSC is terrible quality even at its best, so I didn't see it as a problem.
[01:26:08] sphery: I wanted quantity over quality. (Boy, how I've changed.)
[01:26:27] sphery: C_Neufeld: exactly... that's what I was thinking
[01:26:27] BeowulfBC: :P Yes quality is what I am wanting
[01:26:35] BeowulfBC: When I can add another TB for $135
[01:26:55] sphery: C_Neufeld: and another benefit is that a partial restore forces you to go back through all the settings, so you actually notice the new ones that weren't on 0.20.2  :)
[01:27:17] sphery: BeowulfBC: yeah, and how HDD prices have changed since I was using PVR-x50's  :)
[01:27:31] sphery: agreed, though, go for high bitrate and cheap HDD's...
[01:27:39] BeowulfBC: I think my next add on is going to be a 350
[01:27:49] BeowulfBC: THen when I can get some HD I will look at an HD card
[01:28:24] sphery: BeowulfBC: generally, make sure your max bitrate is at least 50% greater than your avg--i.e. 4Mbps/6Mbps or 5Mbps/7.5Mbps or 6Mbps/9Mbps
[01:28:31] BeowulfBC: OK thanks
[01:28:38] sphery: BeowulfBC: I highly recommend against the PVR-350.
[01:28:43] C_Neufeld: sphery : certainly! Well, that'll be a well-spent half hour tomorrow morning.
[01:28:49] BeowulfBC: Really a friend said that it was great quality
[01:28:55] BeowulfBC: I have 2 150s at the moment
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[01:29:09] BeowulfBC: Is there a PCI-E option for a good HD card?
[01:29:17] BeowulfBC: Problem is this backend has only a PCI-E slot left
[01:29:22] sphery: I had one and used it as a 350 for all of 2 weeks, then realized that it had so many limitations compared to a real video card that I disabled the frame buffer and used it as a PVR-250/PVR-150
[01:29:45] C_Neufeld: BeowulfBC : I thought Hauppage got in trouble with the FCC for selling non-digital-capable tuners, so the PVR-500 and its friends were discontinued.
[01:30:15] sphery: You'd be better off getting PVR-500's or PVR-150's (or the new HVR-xx00's--but get the one(s) supported in Linux and Myth)
[01:30:32] sphery: BeowulfBC: yeah, there are some PCIe ones... linuxtv.org has a nice list
[01:31:22] sphery: C_Neufeld: Yeah, the PVR-x50/500 are no longer sold in the US--except at ebay :)
[01:31:29] C_Neufeld: Looking at the new HVR one, it looks like it can't tune to two analog stations at the same time. There's not much digital OTA going on up here in Canada yet, so if I'm right it wouldn't do as good a job for me as my PVR-500.
[01:31:56] sphery: right... if you're doing analog, you're better off with what you've got
[01:32:06] sphery: the HVR's are 1 digital and 1 analog tuner
[01:32:10] BeowulfBC: C_Neufeld I got my PVR-150s out of NCIX
[01:32:17] sphery: and, IIRC, the analog isn't supported in Myth, yet
[01:32:32] BeowulfBC: I am lucky to have cable so no HD for meyet
[01:33:21] sphery: BeowulfBC: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCIe_Cards
[01:34:43] sphery: BeowulfBC: I think the ATSC side of all those will work in Myth, but the ones with analog (the HVR-1800, at least) you might not be able to use the analog--others know better
[01:35:07] BeowulfBC: Mhmmmm Well with dual 150s my analog is crystal clean
[01:35:49] BeowulfBC: Thought to be honest I think my tuner in my Sony Bravia's tuner is slightly better
[01:38:02] sphery: BeowulfBC: yeah, I'd recommend increasing the bitrate to 6Mbps/9Mbps and see if it looks sharper to you... If not, go back where it was 4M/6M.
[01:39:15] BeowulfBC: Thanks for all the advice you guys are great
[01:39:51] BeowulfBC: Now I have to find somone to take the lowprofile case I bought not realising I had bought full profile cards
[01:39:51] BeowulfBC: :S
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[01:42:49] BeowulfBC: Has anyone ever tried to get Sirus/XM Streaming in as a plugin?
[01:42:53] BeowulfBC: That would be darn awsome
[01:45:22] sphery: There's been some talk of it on the list: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . tring=sirius
[01:45:48] sphery: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine? . . . ch_string=xm
[01:46:07] C_Neufeld: Looks like Steven's working hard on the HVR-2250 again. That would make a good replacement for my PVR-500 some day.
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[01:51:33] BeowulfBC: Herm maybe firewire
[01:51:43] BeowulfBC: Bah I can't even get HD in the boonies
[01:52:50] BeowulfBC: Well I am not a complete dolt when it comes to puter's maybe I can contribute back some
[01:53:23] sphery: contributions always appreciated
[01:54:22] BeowulfBC: For my HD purposes I think I will just go ahead and get a Firewire
[01:54:27] BeowulfBC: er Firewire box
[01:55:09] BeowulfBC: Id on't think I will ever get OTA HD
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[02:05:30] C_Neufeld: Anybody ever seen this? Really fuzzy text in a DVD created with mytharchive in my new install. I took a screenshot: http://www.cneufeld.ca/neufeld/fuzzydvd.png
[02:05:56] C_Neufeld: Could just be a xine problem, I haven't tried it on a real DVD player yet.
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[02:11:40] sphery: C_Neufeld: yeah, I've seen a screenshot of it--it's in the actual DVD
[02:11:41] iamlindoro_: http://www.pcworld.com/article/162348/first_l . . . advance.html
[02:11:46] iamlindoro_: When will myth have this?
[02:11:52] iamlindoro_: Let me rephrase
[02:11:53] sphery: I don't remember the cause... Not installed fonts?
[02:12:04] iamlindoro_: Why the HELL haven't the lazy slacker myth devs implemented this yet?
[02:12:05] sphery: C_Neufeld: do you have MS core web fonts installed?
[02:13:18] sphery: iamlindoro_: nice...
[02:13:48] iamlindoro_: sphery, I hear it's coming to MythBuntu's cableCard version though
[02:14:27] sphery: yeah, makes sense
[02:14:38] C_Neufeld: sphery : no, looks like it's not on the myth box. I'm starting to accumulate quite a list of things that need to be fixed on this LinHES_R6.00.07. Thank you for the insight.
[02:16:25] sphery: C_Neufeld: it's possible that the distro sets it up to use Liberation fonts, instead, with appropriate substitutions, but the font thing was the only thing I could think of...
[02:17:34] sphery: C_Neufeld: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/366519#366519
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[02:20:25] android6011: i have a hauppauge 1800hvr and the picture is kind of fuzzy. is there anyway to correct it? its not like that when i used it in windows media center
[02:21:08] sphery: C_Neufeld: though that fix doesn't sound right to me...
[02:21:49] sphery: android6011: IIRC, the analog side of the HVR-1800 isn't working with Myth, so that would mean you're getting a digital recording which means you can't do anything.
[02:22:33] sphery: android6011: if it is the analog size, you should probably increase bitrate--keep the max a good 50% larger than the average (so, like 4000kbps/6000kbps or 6000kbps/9000kbps)
[02:22:35] C_Neufeld: sphery : this schema is set up to use FreeSans.ttf. Well, no big deal, I'll play around with it some time to see what's going on.
[02:23:00] sphery: yeah, looks like it's not using the MS fonts, so that's not the issue
[02:23:09] sphery: but I think it needs a real fix...
[02:23:13] android6011: sphery ok. how is the support for the hvr-1800 coming?
[02:23:26] sphery: no idea
[02:23:38] android6011: where would i be able to check
[02:23:53] C_Neufeld: sphery : if I figure something out, I'll pop back and let people know. Probably won't be for a few weeks, though.
[02:27:19] C_Neufeld: OK, going offline. Thank you again, sphery, for your many useful insights.
[02:27:57] iamlindoro_: android6011, Ther has been no progress in a while. The digital side is supported as always but the analog side remains non-functional in Myth
[02:28:00] iamlindoro_: no ETA on the fix
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[02:28:29] android6011: just so im clear, when you say digital what exactly do you mean
[02:28:59] iamlindoro_: I mean the digital side of the card.  :) The HVR-1800 is a dual tuner. One analog, one digital.
[02:29:04] android6011: ya ok
[02:29:07] sphery: digital means the ATSC tuner versus the NTSC (=1950's) tuner :)
[02:29:07] iamlindoro_: meaning QAM and ATSC
[02:29:08] android6011: just double checking
[02:29:25] android6011: ya, i just wanted to be sure you meant the ATSC end of it
[02:30:46] sphery: clever: look at the bug more closely to see what you're not getting
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[02:32:54] iamlindoro_: Sigh, children...
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[02:33:12] clever: acording to lspci, i dont have an ethernet card anymore
[02:33:22] clever: its onboard, how can it be gone
[02:34:00] sphery: No way... I can't believe /that/ is who rebel is. (Though I should have been able to figure it out.)
[02:34:19] iamlindoro_: sphery, The writers, actors, and writers again on that show should be lined up and shot
[02:34:39] sphery: so, not liking it so much, anymore?
[02:34:55] iamlindoro_: Just disappointed that it could get worse than it has been for a season
[02:35:28] sphery: so, way to ruin it for me... I had high hopes for these 2 episodes
[02:35:58] iamlindoro_: Heh
[02:36:07] iamlindoro_: I haven't seen this week's
[02:36:36] sphery: cool... so just make it through the last half of this episode and then I can have high hopes, again
[02:37:01] iamlindoro_: Yes, they could turn around the downward spiral of the part three seasons this week
[02:37:09] iamlindoro_: yup, definitely could happen
[02:37:20] sphery: <--- eternal optimist
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[02:47:05] android6011: iamlindoro_, this site has some instructions for getting analog to work, does it just not work with myth or in general? http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-1800
[02:47:20] iamlindoro_: not with myth, does work in General
[02:47:30] android6011: oh ok
[02:49:17] sphery: so why would someone use Myth instead of using General?
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[02:49:56] iamlindoro_: Higher rank
[02:50:26] sphery: heh
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[02:56:36] josenj76: Is there a way to use both analog and digital tuning for a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950 with MythTV? I got analog working fine (using cable-hrc) put when I set up MythTV to use the DVB side of the tuner I get a blank screen for about 30 secs and goes back to the main menu of mythfrontend. I did set up all scanning and it did pick up all QAM channels that I know is there. I am able to use Kaffine to view the digital side and all my
[02:56:36] josenj76: /dev entries are there.
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[04:18:59] Cardoe: Anyone know the equivalent of "mplayer -ao alsa:device=hw=0.3" for MythTV setup?
[04:19:12] Cardoe: only way I can get sound to come over my HDMI
[04:19:42] Cardoe: Got a MSI K9N2GM-FIH Motherboard with GeForce 8200 + HDMI
[04:21:42] iamlindoro_: ALSA:hw:0,3
[04:21:44] iamlindoro_: IIRC
[04:24:48] Cardoe: didn't work
[04:25:21] Cardoe: wait yes it did
[04:25:22] Cardoe: weird
[04:25:36] Cardoe: the first video I played it didn't work
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[04:27:29] iamlindoro_: You're welcome
[04:29:29] wagnerrp: ever watch a show, and the episode seems to be over... yet theres 15 minutes left?
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[04:31:56] ** sphery thinks Cardoe doesn't realize that using the hardware directly almost definitely means he can only play back 48kHz audio **
[04:32:27] sphery: of course, you don't /need/ and ALSA config file (~/.asoundrc or /etc/asound.conf), anymore--I know because I read that on the wiki
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[04:38:26] wagnerrp: well Life on Mars just took a huge change for the... weird...
[04:39:47] sphery: is that one that was cancelled or on the block?
[04:40:06] wagnerrp: dont know what youre asking
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[04:40:43] sphery: yeah, series finale was on tonight
[04:40:52] sphery: at least the US version of Life on Mars
[04:41:07] sphery: just half remembered hearing about it being cancelled or close to cancellation
[04:44:58] wagnerrp: that was awful
[04:46:33] wagnerrp: that was the writers getting drunk and pissed off one night after the show is cancelled, and absolutely destroying it
[04:47:03] wagnerrp: unless thats the way the british version ended... in which case they had several years to think up a better ending and they still did that?
[04:48:27] sphery: wagnerrp: worth watching or should I delete it?
[04:49:18] wagnerrp: stop watching at what appears to be the first ending
[04:49:27] sphery: heh
[04:49:30] wagnerrp: maybe... the end of the elton john song
[04:49:39] sphery: I have the whole series unwatched, still
[04:50:36] wagnerrp: unless that actually wasnt the ending
[04:50:49] wagnerrp: theyre going to pull a dallas, and the last 10 minutes was a dream
[04:52:58] sphery: iamlindoro_: There was one huge change in this week's Heroes... Claire is no longer covered with a 1/2" layer of makeup... Don't know that it was enough to save the series, though.
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[04:57:03] wagnerrp: sphery, when youre comm clipping, if you see something that starts to look scifi
[04:57:11] wagnerrp: just delete everything past that point
[04:57:15] sphery: heh
[04:57:20] wagnerrp: its absolutely worthless
[04:57:51] wagnerrp: the UK version didnt have a very sensible ending either, but it pales in comparison to the abomination of the US ending
[04:58:37] sphery: guess that means that one won't be coming back--no matter how many cans of nuts people send to ABC
[04:59:02] sphery: (that was a Jericho/CBS reference, in case it wasn't clear)
[05:00:19] wagnerrp: well like i said, theres always the Dallas out
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[05:33:39] wagnerrp: i still cant believe how bad that was...
[05:36:43] LonEagle: anyone ever try to use irrecord with an hdhomerun and come up with the same keycode for every key?
[05:38:00] LonEagle: it's only for one particular remote so i'm thinking it's just not reading this one right
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[06:16:41] eric_: how do you install qt-mt?
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[06:16:55] kormoc: eric_, that depends on the distro you are using
[06:17:16] eric_: linux mint
[06:18:07] aryk2: I don't suppose there is anyone with a pvr350 and a ir blaster in here I could steal the lirc config off of? :)
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[06:18:20] kormoc: no clue with that one, it's just the multithreaded version of qt, should be in your package management system somewhere
[06:19:10] JohnQ: Can anyone think of a reason why after upgrading from .21 to svn that the auto shutdown/wakeup stuff wouldnt work?
[06:19:30] JohnQ: well... wakeup
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[06:22:06] eric_: could it be the qt3 configuration application?
[06:22:48] kormoc: unlikely
[06:28:48] Aryk: oh my good god, I got it work
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[06:30:17] eric_: can I get the qt package anywhere on the internet. It's not in my package manager
[06:31:01] kormoc: it's a compile option to the qt package
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[06:39:27] eNeRGi: what distro wouldn't have the Qt packages in the package manager? :o
[06:39:53] eNeRGi: ah, linux mint.
[06:40:03] eNeRGi: note to self: read the backlog
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[06:47:33] JohnQ: Is there a way to export your channel lists to a channels.conf so that you can edit it then reimport it??
[06:49:23] eric_: installed qt3 package and all seems to be working in case anyone wanted to know.
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[06:54:33] wagnerrp: so just how many debian spinoff spinoff spinoffs do we have now?
[06:56:03] kormoc: a few billion
[06:57:34] wagnerrp: a spinoff for every garage, and two in every pot!
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[07:19:02] mycosys: Hi there guys – before i do TOO much stuffing round – do you reckon if i can get XvMC going on my machine with a 256MB NV 6200 and AthlonXP 1600+ i can get 1080p MP2 playback?
[07:20:04] wagnerrp: you should... if you can get xvmc working
[07:20:23] wagnerrp: ive never managed it myself, but then ive not really put a lot of time into trying
[07:21:02] wagnerrp: be aware that there are limitations if you go with xvmc
[07:21:35] mycosys: like?
[07:22:02] mycosys: Just the B&W overlay issue?
[07:22:08] wagnerrp: limited in the OSD overlay
[07:22:16] wagnerrp: cannot handle flawed streams
[07:22:24] mycosys: rly?
[07:22:36] wagnerrp: thats the problem with most hardware decoders
[07:22:40] mycosys: so if i have reception issues on a rainy day it will die?
[07:22:42] wagnerrp: they are not set up to handle errors
[07:23:41] mycosys: so ur saying hardware decode is useless for FTA TV?
[07:23:52] wagnerrp: not at all
[07:23:59] bleomycin: anyone know if 3ghz c2d is enough to playback hdpvr livetv? its stuttering on me using ffmpeg :(
[07:24:21] wagnerrp: digital broadcasts can take a lot of data loss before they start spitting out errors
[07:24:43] wagnerrp: bleomycin: yes, it should be sufficient for even the highest rates
[07:25:04] mycosys: ok – well it is for FTA (dvb-t) and DVD primarily – should be worth it?
[07:25:21] mycosys: I dont mind effing round with config, but not if its pointless
[07:25:30] LonEagle: well shoot, i have ffmpeg die on corrupt FTA streams
[07:25:31] wagnerrp: DVD, that processor can do it without xvmc
[07:25:46] LonEagle: when symbol quality goes below 60% or so, that's when i lose it all
[07:25:48] jpabq: bleomycin: 3ghz c2d is plenty even for max bitrate HD-PVR. Not good enough if you want max bitrate *and* timestretch, though.
[07:25:52] LonEagle: yeah, for sure.
[07:25:57] bleomycin: ive been beating my head in for the last 2 days trying to get stable playback, i must be doing something retarded lol, ffmpeg + opengl renderer should work right? it jumps to 100% cpu no matter which decoer/renderer option i try at times of fast motion
[07:26:14] wagnerrp: LonEagle: ffmpeg will throw a lot of garbage on screen, and may pause playback
[07:26:25] wagnerrp: but it will pick back up again once it gets a valid stream back
[07:26:41] LonEagle: wagnerrp: i've seen it not if the stream garbage is too much
[07:26:49] LonEagle: wagnerrp: but it does deal with a lot of garbage
[07:26:49] bleomycin: could it be because im running 1920x1080 for 720p video playback?
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[07:27:03] wagnerrp: bleomycin: are you using Xv?
[07:27:07] bleomycin: no
[07:27:14] wagnerrp: well why the hell not?
[07:27:25] wagnerrp: youre using straight X11 output?
[07:27:42] bleomycin: xv-blit renderer?
[07:27:46] wagnerrp: thats Xv
[07:27:52] mycosys: wagnerrp: – yep – it handles DVD and 525p no prob – 1080i not so great (ie not at all) and 1/3 of our channels are HD
[07:28:10] bleomycin: yeah, tried that as well as opengl, still get stutters and very high cpu usage at times
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[07:28:30] bleomycin: also tried vdpau, but same issues with even standard motion
[07:28:33] wagnerrp: Xv means all video scaling is done in hardware, meaning output resolution is irrelevant
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[07:28:56] wagnerrp: opengl will work, if youve got a decently powerful video card
[07:28:58] bleomycin: so decoder: standard + renderer xv-blit/softblend should work?
[07:29:05] ** LonEagle tries to decide which buttons are which **
[07:29:18] wagnerrp: vdpau should use almost no CPU
[07:29:23] bleomycin: yeah it doesnt
[07:29:29] wagnerrp: youre doing a stream copy, plus audio decoding
[07:30:42] wagnerrp: mycosys: go ahead and give it a try, youve got nothing to lose
[07:30:53] wagnerrp: so long as you have a decent signal, it shouldnt be a big problem
[07:31:00] bleomycin: right now, playing discovery hd at 720P both cores are at 80%+ with very little motion onscreen :(
[07:31:01] wagnerrp: just be aware that it exists
[07:31:11] LonEagle: wasn't there something on the wiki talking about the easiest way to set up a remote?
[07:31:24] mycosys: cept my sanity lol – thx :) hey – if im running a suse macg4 it shouldnt be that bad :D rofl
[07:31:25] LonEagle: or was that the manual?
[07:31:28] wagnerrp: there is absolutely no reason why you should be using both cores at 80%
[07:31:39] jpabq: bleomycin: you want either xv-blit or vdpau. opengl is nice, but does take a lot more power. Make sure you have "use events" turned on, and the you are using the nVidia *binary* driver.
[07:31:40] wagnerrp: are you doing commflagging at the same time?
[07:32:24] wagnerrp: 720p, you shouldnt be running a deinterlacer
[07:32:35] bleomycin: not running deinterlacer
[07:32:37] wagnerrp: and HDPVR recordings are single sliced
[07:32:42] wagnerrp: meaning single threaded decoding
[07:32:44] bleomycin: binary, 180.44 nvidia driver
[07:32:49] wagnerrp: something OTHER than playback is using the other core
[07:33:20] bleomycin: X is hitting the 2nd core
[07:34:09] wagnerrp: check out that 'use events' thing jpabq mentioned
[07:34:11] wagnerrp: restart X
[07:34:12] wagnerrp: and rety
[07:34:27] bleomycin: heh, its been restarted 100 times today
[07:34:41] bleomycin: same result last 2 days, spent like 10 hours both days tinkering :(
[07:35:00] bleomycin: its probably some setting im clueless about heh
[07:35:01] jpabq: bleomycin: and you are not trying to use video as your timebase, right?
[07:35:03] LonEagle: there's a 180.44 driver now?
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[07:35:16] jpabq: LonEagle: yes
[07:35:29] LonEagle: anything significantly better?
[07:35:36] LonEagle: otherwise i'll skip it
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[07:35:46] jpabq: LonEagle: just finally an official release
[07:35:47] bleomycin: nope, video as timebase is unchecked
[07:35:48] wagnerrp: probably just bugfixes
[07:36:14] bleomycin: may i ask where "use events" is, i cant find it
[07:36:15] wagnerrp: jpabq: will that option fix the incorrect video length on ATSC recordings?
[07:36:50] jpabq: wagnerrp: what option?
[07:36:58] wagnerrp: the video as timebase thing
[07:37:09] LonEagle: speaking of closed source stuff, flash 10 is a huge improvement
[07:37:19] LonEagle: hulu runs respectably on my myth box now. that's awesome
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[07:37:41] wagnerrp: you mean adobe put out something free thats not complete garbage?
[07:38:16] wagnerrp: ive been getting progressively more angry with each new acrobat reader
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[07:38:40] jpabq: bleomycin: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/NVidiaProprietaryDriver
[07:39:36] jpabq: wagnerrp: Attempting to use video as the timebase with AC3 causes massive stuttering. I don't know if it was fix any kind of length issue.
[07:39:46] LonEagle: wagnerrp: well it's still medium-garbage, but less than the last release.
[07:40:13] LonEagle: wagnerrp: but since everyone is deciding to use it to deliver streaming video... gotta live with it
[07:40:20] wagnerrp: jpabq: some of my hour long recordings show up as 52 minutes
[07:40:38] LonEagle: wagnerrp: better than .wmv encrypted i guess.
[07:40:39] bleomycin: use video as timebase seems to be helping
[07:40:45] wagnerrp: meaning it surges to try to keep audio and video in sync
[07:40:47] bleomycin: other than the crash i just got cpu usage was way down lol
[07:41:45] wagnerrp: nope, its unchecked
[07:41:55] wagnerrp: i havent noticed it happening recently
[07:42:10] jpabq: wagnerrp: I get that all the time on one of my local stations. They are stripping out every Xth field as a compression technique. Causes the length the get calculated wrong in myth.
[07:42:13] wagnerrp: i do remember discussion of it several months ago... i guess it got fixed since then
[07:42:22] wagnerrp: oh
[07:44:34] jpabq: wagnerrp: the station that does that to me locally used to have 4 sub-stations (45–1, 45–2, 45–3, 45–4, 45–5), so they needed the extra bandwidth. They no longer have those substations, but they still do the field stripping. I don't know what their excuse is now.
[07:46:39] jpabq: bed time. good night all.
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[07:47:58] JohnQ: in a channels.conf file, what do the video_id and audio_id indicate?
[07:49:24] bleomycin: when using xv, what do you guys do for vsync, playback seems stable now with use video as timebase, but im getting a little bit of tearing
[07:51:31] wagnerrp: JohnQ: when you tune a digital channel, you get a big mpeg2 transport stream
[07:51:49] wagnerrp: the video_id and audio_id are literally the stream ids within that transport stream
[07:52:07] JohnQ: I see. Is that the same as the subchannel number then?
[07:52:13] JohnQ: Or is it more difficult than that?
[07:52:23] wagnerrp: more difficult
[07:52:30] JohnQ: doh
[07:52:33] wagnerrp: the subchannel is something defined by the program table
[07:52:35] LonEagle: ah dang i was wrong. 4 of the buttons on this are still botched up
[07:52:41] LonEagle: stupid remote.
[07:52:52] wagnerrp: and consists of one or more audio and video streams
[07:52:53] JohnQ: I see. So where can I get these values?
[07:52:58] bleomycin: doh! mythfrontend jumps to 100% now on this faster motion video still :(
[07:53:01] LonEagle: i should just buy one of those stupid expensive remotes
[07:53:21] wagnerrp: JohnQ: any DVB scanner should pick them up
[07:53:32] JohnQ: Im using a hdhomerun
[07:54:08] wagnerrp: well the command line utility should be able to dump a channels.conf for you
[07:54:24] wagnerrp: but you can just as easily use the scanner in mythtv-setup, and not worry about it
[07:54:42] JohnQ: the scanner in mythtv-setup does not work for me sadly.
[07:54:47] JohnQ: It misses a LOT of chanels
[07:55:12] JohnQ: I am trying to generate a channels.conf right now actually.. do you know a trick I dont about how to do that?
[07:55:13] wagnerrp: well then grab hdhomerun_config off their site
[07:55:18] JohnQ: I have it
[07:55:21] wagnerrp: compile it, dump a channels.conf, and load it in
[07:55:34] JohnQ: As near as I can tell, it does not dump a channels.conf
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[07:56:48] wagnerrp: wont 'scan 0 channels.conf' do that?
[07:57:03] wagnerrp: or is that optional file a frequency map?
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[07:57:42] JohnQ: the optional file is an output file, but the format of it is very different from a channels.conf and does not include the aidio and video ids.
[07:59:22] mycosys: gah – set mythfrontend to xvmc and ......... OSD but no stream – screen locked up, had to reboot – ctrl-alt-backspace didnt restart X, even tho the underlying machine seemed to be going (hdd activity)
[07:59:31] mycosys: please tell me this is a known issue lol
[08:00:53] honk: sounds like a broken gfx driver
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[08:05:18] LonEagle: dangit. i give up on remotes for tonight.
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[08:11:14] wagnerrp: JohnQ: i cant figure out how to get that information off the HDHR
[08:11:24] JohnQ: ya me either.
[08:11:34] JohnQ: I am hoping that the program id will be enough
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[08:15:27] JohnQ: Now I just need to figure the correct syntax for the channels.conf to tune hdhr channels
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[08:35:18] JohnQ: what is the default "hd ringbuffer size"?
[08:39:11] d00gle: 9400k
[08:39:14] d00gle: KB
[08:39:20] JohnQ: thalkds
[08:39:23] JohnQ: thanks even
[08:39:23] d00gle: np
[08:40:30] JohnQ: dang. that didnt help. My playback is all stutery-and choppy. (only the video.. audio is stable), and I cant think of anything else I might have changed to cause it. sigh
[08:41:51] JohnQ: Hah. HD is smooth... only SD is choppy... what the...
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[08:47:08] d00gle: Is it best to delete unwatchable channels from the DB or just hide them ?
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[08:47:44] d00gle: i.e. is there any overhead with having channels I never watch in the channel table
[08:48:10] honk: not really :]
[08:48:12] JohnQ: Not really.. but you should disable them on schedulesdirect.
[08:48:32] JohnQ: No need to download lineups for disabled channels
[08:50:16] JohnQ: what the... how much CPU does mythfrontend take up for you when you pause a prerecorded show during playback?
[08:50:33] JohnQ: for me, it seems to be 45%
[08:50:44] d00gle: well, i'm lucky I don't use Schedules Direct
[08:50:55] d00gle: i'm using the mc2xml script for TV guide
[08:50:59] d00gle: works great
[08:51:03] JohnQ: cool
[08:51:19] d00gle: I was just wondering if the fact my channels table now contains like 900 odd channels
[08:51:32] d00gle: if it was going to have some performance hit
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[09:05:35] justinh: it'll impact the scheduler somewhat
[09:05:53] justinh: and mythfilldatabase could take a while with that many channels :P
[09:07:15] justinh: of course you'd never realistically be able to zap around when you have so many channels either – but then any regular in this channel would tell you that live tv died out last millennium & that mythtv is really about watching what you want to watch at a time that suits you :)
[09:08:04] justinh: FWIW pick the channels you're likely to use & hide the rest
[09:08:58] justinh: using m2xml is very naughty btw. Very very naughty
[09:09:03] justinh: *mc2xml
[09:09:50] sid3windr: sometimes the only option though
[09:10:43] justinh: I see they 'support' schedulesdirect – they're not on the approved apps list
[09:10:55] justinh: I forsee something being done about that
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[09:12:10] sid3windr: how are approved apps approved? there's no source for mc2xml so I foresee that being a problem...
[09:12:17] sid3windr: or is it simply tested to see if it behaves
[09:13:13] justinh: no idea about how stuff is approved. presumably signing agreements to adhere to T&Cs etc
[09:13:45] gbee: hmm, wonder why they'd include SD support when there is an official xmltv grabber for S
[09:13:46] gbee: D
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[09:14:09] justinh: myers. I wonder
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[09:18:26] justinh: jesus. I just grabbed it, ran it.. and !!!!!!!!!!!!! thieving ****ing bastards
[09:21:06] justinh: SD is safe – mc2xml apparently requires username & password for that but stealing from MS isn't going to go unpunished
[09:22:37] stuarta: morning
[09:22:54] stuarta: watcha wibbling about?
[09:23:10] justinh: mc2xml. theiving ****ers
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[09:24:43] justinh: just downloaded it & tried it out. mc2xml -c gb -g "$POSTCODE" goes off, talks to microsoft.com & grabs tv listings data from them
[09:25:10] mzb: anyone following J-e-f-f-A's and my discussions about LCD for mythtv might be interested in http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php? . . . 4linux-devel
[09:26:10] gbee: justinh: err, no userid etc required?
[09:26:23] justinh: for SD, yeah
[09:26:29] justinh: not for anything else AFAICT
[09:26:35] gbee: but not for MS etc
[09:26:44] justinh: nope
[09:26:49] justinh: it'
[09:27:27] justinh: duh. it's wide open, so some would prolly argue it's fair game but I've read the T&Cs displayed when you install MCE
[09:27:57] d00gle: justinh: I agree, but it's a whole lot nicer to user than the RT grabber
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[09:28:08] justinh: nicer doesn't come into it. it's THEFT
[09:28:43] d00gle: :s
[09:29:39] justinh: if the client looks no different to MCE itself as far as MS servers are concerned... maybe... I'd be ok because I have a Vista license but...
[09:29:50] justinh: it's still technically a breach of T&Cs
[09:30:15] justinh: it IS frickin fast though. blindingly so
[09:30:16] gbee: nicer than the RT grabber? How would that be? I'd think the quality, ease of use would put the RT grabber ahead by quite a margin
[09:30:49] d00gle: gbee: nicer in the fact it tends to have more channels, and wil only go and get changes since last grab
[09:30:49] justinh: grabbed the whole freeview lineup in seconds
[09:32:14] justinh: it's well fast though. I said blinding & meant it
[09:32:23] d00gle: I noticed the RT grabber used to bring back mixed data for some +1 channels, so you would have a drama say on ITV2 and the same program on ITV2+1 would be marked as other
[09:32:41] justinh: d00gle: +1 channels are handled much better in ukrt now
[09:32:57] d00gle: my ignorance for not trying it recently
[09:33:13] d00gle: just got frustrating making a change and having to run the whole grab again
[09:33:17] justinh: you can just specify a plus-1.xmltvid :)
[09:33:31] justinh: sure it has different options for updates
[09:33:58] justinh: and it could likely stand some improvements too but it's come a long way recently
[09:34:05] justinh: especially in terms of configuring it
[09:34:13] d00gle: oh sure, i'm not knocking it at all
[09:34:22] d00gle: it served me well for years
[09:34:25] justinh: nick has done a fricking awesome job on it
[09:34:38] justinh: you set lineups by your postcode & provider now
[09:34:50] gbee: I'd be curious to know if the extra channels are ones you'd actually want to watch
[09:35:01] justinh: gbee: hardly likely
[09:35:13] justinh: what ukrt doesn't cover isn't what I'd call mainstream
[09:35:46] d00gle: Well occasionly and i do mean that once in a blue moon moment there might be something interesting I want to schedule to record on those channels
[09:35:55] d00gle: if I don't have the guide info, I don't know whats on them
[09:36:07] gbee: if mc2xml was an xmltv compliant grabber I might understand some of the appeal, but as it is, I'll take automation
[09:36:11] justinh: 900 channels though...
[09:36:27] d00gle: oh, i don't bother grabbing guide data for the ones I defo don't watch
[09:36:38] d00gle: just leave the chans as hidden
[09:37:12] gbee: incremental updates are nice, but meaningless to me, mfdb runs in the early hours of the morning – if everything goes right then I don't notice it and it doesn't matter whether it takes seconds or hours
[09:37:26] justinh: aye true
[09:37:55] justinh: wonder when they're gonna change 'TBA' to 'Dr Who' on 11th April
[09:38:11] gbee: but it's given me pause for thought, wondering what optimisations I can make to the parsing/insertion of events in mfdb
[09:38:23] d00gle: Should field channum be Text in the channel table ?
[09:38:34] gbee: yes
[09:38:43] gbee: well it should be varchar really
[09:39:08] d00gle: i was just trying to list my chans sorted by channum and wanted them from smallest to largest
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[09:39:26] d00gle: but it was returning like 1, then 10, then 11 etc instead of 1,2,3,4
[09:41:33] justinh: wow, that's 2 weeks of programme data it stole for me. methinks a lot of that is done server-side which is how they manage to do incremental updates
[09:41:48] gbee: in the US channel numbers can include underscores for 'subchannels' ... subchannels are just their way of dealing with multiplexes, they have one high bitrate 'main' channel and the rest of the space is used by lower bit-rate crap ... 5_3, 6_2 etc
[09:42:25] gbee: guessing that ATSC has less bandwidth than DVB-T
[09:42:32] d00gle: I see
[09:42:43] justinh: 5Mhz IIRC
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[09:43:02] justinh: the modulation used isn't as efficient
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[09:44:03] gbee: those crazy 'mercans, have to do things their own way :)
[09:44:43] stuarta: can't abide those "standards" thingies
[09:45:16] justinh: merkins :)
[09:46:40] justinh: yeah you can't have companies in foreign lands making kit to receive merkin teevee.. especially not europe!
[09:47:09] justinh: heh. I can see a few people phoning in sick with this one... "Michelle Obama fever hits the UK"
[09:50:53] justinh: ooo it's almost shittylink time
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[10:22:15] justinh: muhahaha. guy who bought the Tina Turner tickets sold them on at a loss
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[10:28:20] justinh: gbee: re xmltv tidying up.. might be good if there was a way to better tie in digital channels against xmltvids on both sides of the pond. another job for services.mythtv.org ?
[10:29:30] justinh: might not be too hard to do but obviously there'd have to be up to date xmltvid & channel name data
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[11:11:32] PaulWay: Hi all!
[11:12:23] PaulWay: I'm having a weird problem where I've done a mythbackend --resched and now --printsched shows only the current recording but testsched shows the full 7 days of recordings planned.
[11:13:55] PaulWay: Any ideas how I can fix this?
[11:18:08] Dibblah: PaulWay: Check your mysql logs for crashed tables.
[11:18:16] Dibblah: Check if /tmp has run out of space.
[11:18:33] PaulWay: Disk space all good
[11:19:38] PaulWay: Odd – the /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log reports it trying to access the old database server, but it should be trying to access the new server.
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[11:22:14] justinh: did you restart mythbackend after making the changes?
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[11:24:33] PaulWay: Yes – I shut down mythbackend, shut down mysql, copied the database to the new server, checked that I could access it, and restarted mythbackend.
[11:24:47] PaulWay: It can see all the program guide in mythfrontend.
[11:25:22] PaulWay: I've changed the .mythtv/config.xml and .mythtv/mysql.txt files in root (who runs mythbackend) and my MythTV front end account.
[11:25:37] justinh: mythbackend running as root? ruh roh
[11:25:54] PaulWay: The thing that puzzles me here is that --testsched definitely shows all the programs it should be taping.
[11:25:58] justinh: check all config.xml & mysql.txt files juuust in case
[11:27:09] PaulWay: justinh: when I transfer the backend service across to the new machine (when I put its tuner cards in and get it an aerial) then I'll run it as a separate user.
[11:27:41] PaulWay: I've just checked running mythbackend -v database and it reports it's connecting to the new server for MySQL connections for both printsched and testsched.
[11:30:25] justinh: bah. I should've known better than to pay extra for next day delivery :-(
[11:32:49] PaulWay: Oh?
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[11:33:35] justinh: Below are the consignment details for order number: $ordernumber... and there are no details below
[11:35:21] ** stuarta tries to act surprised **
[11:36:21] justinh: give them til 1pm then they'll be getting a 'friendly' phone call
[11:41:11] JohnQ: where is the right place to report a bug? here? or #mythtv?
[11:41:17] justinh: neither
[11:41:24] justinh: svn.mythtv.org
[11:41:34] mycosys: hi guys – I appear to be missing an Xlib.h and an XvMclib.h – any clues http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/d63aa1caf
[11:42:59] justinh: apt-get install xorg-dev ? or just apt-get build-dep mythtv
[11:44:42] PaulWay: Right, after a mythbackend restart it seems to be working again.
[11:45:01] PaulWay: OTOH there's one recording I know Kate has scheduled that isn't listed in there.
[11:45:31] PaulWay: I've seen her try to set it to record in the program listing and once you hit 'save' in the recording options it just goes back to 'not recorded' in the listing.
[11:46:43] PaulWay: And now after the restart, mythweb doesn't work and the backend isn't listening on tcp:6543.
[11:46:58] PaulWay: (On 6549, yes, but I don't know what that is)
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[11:48:51] mycosys: gah – and apt-get build-dep mythtv fails due to a dependancy , which it even says has a replacement
[11:49:14] mycosys: all i want is XvMc :'( lol
[11:49:31] justinh: apt-cache search $thing is useful :)
[11:50:08] justinh: oo look apt-cache search xvmc |grep dev found libxvmc-dev
[11:51:09] justinh: broken dependencies are possibly a result of mixing your apt sources. v.bad
[11:51:30] mycosys: so is sleep i think – head full of Static MEchanics and Calculus lol
[11:51:45] mycosys: havent added any sources
[11:52:16] justinh: then #ubuntu-mythtv is probably also of use to you
[11:52:33] mycosys: there too :) and ubuntu lol
[11:53:10] justinh: #ubuntu less so. very low s/n ratio there
[11:53:18] mycosys: noticing that
[11:53:46] mycosys: why does XvMC have to make me feel like i noob? lol
[11:54:29] justinh: there are more disadvantages than advantages where xvmc is concerned IMHO
[11:54:49] justinh: I'd sooner take my chances with VDPAU
[11:55:03] mycosys: Athlon XP1600+ – i aint gettin 1080i without it
[11:55:24] justinh: you could with a $30 nvidia card
[11:55:33] mycosys: AGP
[11:55:42] mycosys: $50 = NV6200
[11:55:46] justinh: bless
[11:56:25] mycosys: Damn 6200 is to get XvMC – might take the thing back
[11:56:55] justinh: doesn't mythbuntu come with that enabled anyway?
[11:57:06] justinh: then it's just a matter of the driver supporting it
[11:57:06] mycosys: not configured tho
[11:57:15] justinh: so?
[11:57:28] justinh: all you need do is edit the video playback profiles to use xvmc
[11:58:21] mycosys: mplayer is givin me an error that XvMC isnt supported by the codec, mythfronted just dies (mythbackend seems to keep going, but mythfrontand taked the xserver & KB with it)
[11:59:07] ** mycosys wonders if he should just reinstall mythbuntu **
[12:00:20] mycosys: Xorg says it is loading NVMC – but i dies :S
[12:02:15] justinh: reinstalling won't necessarily fix anything
[12:02:46] mycosys: there were some read errors installing – could explain the broken deps – tho it seemed to get em right with a retry
[12:02:53] mycosys: also – 3rd vid card in the machine
[12:04:50] PaulWay: justinh: yes, of course, there was a booby-trap in the configuration stored in /var/lib/mythtv/mysql.txt
[12:05:01] PaulWay: Because the Fedora install decided to put its configuration there.
[12:05:04] PaulWay: Stupid thing.
[12:05:54] PaulWay: It still, for no readily apparent reason, is not providing a port 6543 connection – any ideas what might be causing that?
[12:06:23] justinh: configuration issue. it'll only run on the port you tell it to
[12:06:43] PaulWay: But AFAICS I haven't changed that at all!
[12:07:24] justinh: oh. apparently the 'before 12' delivery option actually means "before 6pm". I shall smite them with a nasty letter
[12:07:52] PaulWay: Oooh, nasty!
[12:08:01] PaulWay: Yep, I adgered some config in the settings table.
[12:08:03] justinh: ****ing ****ers. Why can no company in the UK get anything right?
[12:08:59] PaulWay: Nope, removed the adgered config, same problem.
[12:09:09] justinh: they dicked around with my laptop too... I resolved never to use them again but was drawn in by the 'can't get $thing anywhere locally'
[12:09:19] mycosys: thanks dude – night
[12:09:31] justinh: PaulWay: restarted the backend?
[12:09:38] PaulWay: Yep.
[12:10:38] PaulWay: And the MasterServerIP and MasterServerPort are still correct in the settings table.
[12:11:07] PaulWay: Nothing else has port 6543 open...
[12:11:24] justinh: and there's only the one backend on the network?
[12:11:38] PaulWay: Yep.
[12:13:34] PaulWay: It's got 6544, 6549 and a bunch of multicast addresses open.
[12:15:38] PaulWay: It doesn't mention port 6543 in the log when I run it with -v all...
[12:16:25] superdump: what version of GPL does mythtv use for its license?
[12:17:41] superdump: 2
[12:17:42] superdump: ok
[12:17:49] Dibblah: PaulWay: Pastebin the complete mythbackend -v most
[12:17:53] Dibblah: log...
[12:19:18] PaulWay: Would -v all suffice?
[12:19:50] justinh: wow. users who ask a question then answer it themselves. we need more of that here
[12:20:06] PaulWay: justinh: heh :-)
[12:20:14] PaulWay: I'm trying but I'm stumped with this.
[12:20:28] Dibblah: -v all is a bit too verose for my taste.
[12:20:33] Dibblah: verbose, even.
[12:20:50] Dibblah: superdump: AFAIR, there are bits of Myth that are under a different license.
[12:22:16] PaulWay: And then for no readily apparent reason NFS decides that it's going to die.
[12:24:49] PaulWay: Dibblah: http://tangram.dnsalias.net/~paulway/mythback.log
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[12:25:01] PaulWay: Sorry, it's -v all.
[12:25:06] PaulWay: I'll redo it now as -v most.
[12:26:50] Dibblah: PaulWay: That server doesn't believe it is the master server.
[12:26:52] PaulWay: Try it again now.
[12:27:04] PaulWay: Hmmm.
[12:27:08] Dibblah: You are missing " MythBackend: Starting up as the master server."
[12:27:19] PaulWay: OK, thanks for that.
[12:27:20] Dibblah: Your masterserverIP / etc are not consistent.
[12:27:51] Dibblah: Remember – IP addresses, not names, and 'this server' and master server must match.
[12:29:01] PaulWay: What I've got is in http://tangram.dnsalias.net/~paulway/server-ips.txt
[12:29:09] justinh: heh I thought it might be that but dismissed it
[12:29:12] PaulWay: sorry, http://tangram.dnsalias.net/~paulway/server_ips.txt
[12:30:13] justinh: Dibblah: and it's easy for anyone to say IP addresses not hostname but 0.21 still says hostname :P
[12:30:36] justinh: surprised we don't see more people with those problems
[12:31:02] justinh: just goes to show how little people read what's onscreen :D
[12:31:33] PaulWay: And I just did "select s1.hostname from settings as s1 join settings as s2 on s1.data = s2.data where s1.value = 'BackendServerIP' and s2.value = 'MasterServerIP';" and it returned "media", so as far as the database is concerned those two values are the same.
[12:32:16] PaulWay: I'm not doubting your diagnosis that it isn't the master server :-) just trying to work out where the settings are wrong.
[12:33:11] justinh: so the new backend machine..is that a different hostname to what the old one used?
[12:33:27] justinh: changing hostnames is sort of tricky when myth is tangled up
[12:33:30] Dibblah: justinh: And it's changed in trunk.
[12:33:32] justinh: see the wiki about it
[12:33:38] justinh: Dibblah: I know :)
[12:35:03] justinh: PaulWay: there's an article in the wiki which describes how best to change a backend hostname – basically involves taking a dump of the DB & sed'ing the old hostname to the new one
[12:35:35] justinh: hostnames _are_ infact used for settings info
[12:35:46] PaulWay: Yeah, but I haven't actually moved the mythbackend server.
[12:35:57] PaulWay: Just the server that hosts the database.
[12:37:17] PaulWay: In preparation for moving the actual backend over (which I would do as a bunch of update queries rather than sed).
[12:37:53] justinh: easy to miss something that way
[12:38:00] PaulWay: True.
[12:38:10] justinh: unless you know the db back to front & inside out
[12:38:11] PaulWay: I'll do a dump and have a look at what grep finds.
[12:38:12] PaulWay: :-)
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[12:39:32] justinh: wtf? now the order status is 'invoiced'
[12:39:52] justinh: how the eff can they send out emails saying the damn thing has been despatched when it ain't?
[12:40:01] justinh: oops. easy. just say it
[12:41:19] PaulWay: Don't you hate postage and freight?
[12:41:39] PaulWay: How can I find out how it's determining that it shouldn't be the master server?
[12:41:44] PaulWay: Is there some extra file setting somewhere?
[12:42:34] justinh: I'd much rather visit a local place... but they're about as useless most of the time. order at the front desk, they check stock & take your money. then they ring the warehouse & see if it really IS in
[12:43:09] PaulWay: Yeah. That and charge extra for the 'service'.
[12:43:20] justinh: PaulWay: I guess it checks the hostname it's running on against the 'masterbackend' setting
[12:43:41] PaulWay: The 'MasterServerIP' setting, do you mean?
[12:44:04] justinh: dunno
[12:44:23] PaulWay: Curiously, there's a MasterBackendOverride setting set to 1 – any idea?
[12:44:30] justinh: never messed with the database directly like that..precisely because of the risk this kind of thing can happen
[12:45:29] PaulWay: I didn't change the database, I just transferred it over to the new server. And then everything went pineapple-shaped.
[12:48:50] PaulWay: Question, Dibblah – where should it say "Starting up as the master server" in the log?
[12:49:04] PaulWay: After reading the BackendServerIP and MasterServerIP?
[12:52:07] mzb: PaulWay: iirc MasterBackendOverride is for streaming a recording from the BE rather than file.
[12:52:25] mzb: have you tried "-v database"?
[12:53:05] ** mzb fades off into the distance **
[12:54:25] justinh: ffs. purchasing dept. had my delivery since this morning
[12:55:12] PaulWay: mzb: I'm looking at -v all and that doesn't seem to give much indication.
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[13:08:13] PaulWay: well, **** me flat.
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[13:08:29] PaulWay: It's decided to be the master server and listen on port 6543 again.
[13:09:00] mzb: not sure if 'all' includes 'database', ymmv
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[13:09:19] PaulWay: I can see the mysql queries in -v all, so I assume so.
[13:11:28] mzb: k
[13:11:37] justinh: oh chuffing hell. nut is erm... hmmm. interesting
[13:12:04] PaulWay: nut as in the UPS handler?
[13:12:26] justinh: yup
[13:13:08] PaulWay: yeah, I tried it once, it was impossible to understand.
[13:13:44] mzb: takes practice ;) ... making a custom cable a debugging an unknown UPS is harder ;P
[13:13:56] mzb: s/and
[13:14:37] PaulWay: anyway, now that things have vaguely returned to normal it is time for me to collapse into unconsciousness.
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[13:40:26] justinh: wow. this is making my brain hurt
[13:41:06] justinh: getting it working on my laptop before defiling the backend box with it :)
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[14:04:40] justinh: whee I've not had this much 'fun' since I started using linux
[14:17:02] justinh: nifty. she worky!
[14:17:33] justinh: had to use an old version of nut & hack the source...
[14:17:36] justinh: all very familiar
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[14:20:18] ** stuarta raises an eyebrow at justinh **
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[14:21:29] iamlindoro_: Just smile and nod
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[14:23:36] shadn_: iamlindoro_: Do you have one of those Sony DVD libraries?
[14:23:49] iamlindoro_: I do now.
[14:23:53] ** iamlindoro_ pats the XL1B **
[14:23:56] shadn_: what do you think of it?
[14:24:23] iamlindoro_: Working well so far, happily ripping and transcoding away for the last 24 hours
[14:25:00] shadn_: Ahh... So you're not using it as a storage location as much as a place to put lots of dvd's in to rip them?
[14:25:25] justinh: stuarta: reminded of when I got my first dvb-t tuner & I had to use a certain kernel version because a patch needed to make it work hadn't been accepted upstream
[14:25:50] iamlindoro_: Personally, yes. I don't care for the fuss of physical media and prefer to keep them safely stored somewhere
[14:26:07] shadn_: Yea that's the way I would use it as well
[14:26:17] iamlindoro_: But it's a sturdy box and you can load/unload it fairly quickly with a little practice
[14:26:26] justinh: how much was that?
[14:26:44] iamlindoro_: $159
[14:26:46] justinh: I could load one with CDs:)
[14:26:58] shadn_: I was just interested b/c at work we use libraries (tape) all the time. They're just starting to move into the more general computing space
[14:27:04] justinh: save me eekloads of time
[14:27:21] shadn_: it's interesting to see how people use them
[14:27:32] iamlindoro_: justinh, yeah, there are a set of ripping scripts (and even a GUI) for just that in linux, too
[14:27:34] jams: iamlindoro- ~30 minutes to unload and place disks in case?
[14:28:10] iamlindoro_: jams, I got 50 in last night in under 5 minutes, but I had prepared for them (ie I was working with a stack)
[14:28:11] shadn_: prob more like 15 minutes to put 200 dvd's into the unit
[14:28:37] shadn_: then the script uploads them to myth
[14:28:41] jams: thats loading, unloading is a different story
[14:28:58] iamlindoro_: jams, I'm sorry, I should have read more carefully, you are right
[14:29:09] iamlindoro_: yeah, unloading is more painful
[14:29:22] shadn_: I would like to rsync iamlindoro_'s raid array
[14:29:32] jams: it's mostly the palcing them back in the case
[14:29:45] sid3windr: oops, mythtv backend crashed
[14:29:53] sid3windr: I wonder how mythtv-status still worked, while ps showed no trace of a running backend
[14:30:04] sid3windr: (and I love how the initscript said it was still running)
[14:30:06] shadn_: But at $150 I could see it starting to make sense
[14:30:28] iamlindoro_: Off to work
[14:30:28] justinh: oh nice. thingy keepslosing comms with the UPS
[14:35:39] justinh: well, automagical shutdown seems to work just fine
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[15:11:40] ** J-e-f-f-A has an XL1B that's been sitting on a shelf for ~6 months now... ;-) He should hook it back up and setup a rip system for it... ;-) **
[15:12:30] iamlindoro: I set up the little Dell Studio Hybrid for that job last night when I realized the upstairs system didn't have firewire
[15:12:42] J-e-f-f-A: If you're really adventurous, I have read of folks that have taken the top off and 'manually' loaded/unloaded the slots.  ;-)
[15:13:27] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: You mentioned some guis for it? Do you use a gui or just a script?
[15:13:42] justinh: DAMNIT. now lsusb isn't even listing the UPS
[15:14:01] sid3windr: dammit!
[15:14:28] J-e-f-f-A: &#$*$ it!
[15:15:15] justinh: yeah I can see me returning this & going to my local place, paying through the nose & getting a proper one
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[15:15:39] ** stuarta offers justinh a hammer **
[15:16:04] J-e-f-f-A: stuarta: Wait, he wants to return it! ;-)
[15:16:16] justinh: it was being listed in lsusb earlier as 'Fry's Electronics'...
[15:16:18] stuarta: not as much fun as using a hammer
[15:16:32] justinh: same as some Belkin UPS apparently
[15:16:44] justinh: Belkin. such a quality manufacturer
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[15:18:04] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: Humm... I generally like Fry's Electronics – but don't get to one 'cept every couple of years as there's none on the east coast of the US... It's mostly a west-coast chain...
[15:18:12] justinh: heh
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[15:18:20] justinh: ooo Ashes To Ashes is starting again soon
[15:18:37] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: And yeah, Belkin isn't one of my 'preferred' vendors... I typically avoid them actually...
[15:18:41] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Sony_XL1B2
[15:18:57] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A: I added a link to the scripts and GUI, as well as my modified script for Rip and transcode at the bottom
[15:19:04] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: thanks.  ;-)
[15:19:11] justinh: can't seem to find a UK outlet for the sony jukebox either. bah
[15:19:18] iamlindoro: np
[15:19:32] justinh: one of them rocking horse crap things eh
[15:19:48] justinh: as in.. as readily available as rocking horse poo
[15:21:27] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: I think the main reason mine has been sitting 'idle/shelved' for a while (besides I didn't have ROOM for it near my peecee atm) is that many of my CDs aren't on CDDB (or whatever online Database), and I end up typing in all the details manually... hard to script that.
[15:21:57] sid3windr: don't forget to subit them afterwards :>
[15:21:59] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: it'd be nice if a GUI could automatically rip them all, then allow updating the 'unknown' titles easily afterwards.
[15:22:26] justinh: don't submit em to musicbrainz whatever you do
[15:22:38] J-e-f-f-A: sid3windr: yeah. ;-)
[15:23:23] J-e-f-f-A: As far as the 'room' comment – I've heard of others using up to 10M (~30ft?) firewire cables successfully with them... Now that's an option... ;-)
[15:26:59] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A: The GUI does that with CDs
[15:27:53] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: Awesome... I think I'll buy a long firewire cable and put the unit somewhere else where I have room for it... ;-)
[15:28:15] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A: My rip/transcode script uses Handbrake and their "Constant High Quality" preset to rip and transcode simultaneously, you end up with a bunch of "$disktitle.mkv" files in the directory
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[15:33:26] wasteur: hi – please could someone help me with how to improve my signal strength? not used to IRC, so please bear with me...
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[15:34:31] justinh: there's FA you can do aside from trying better coaxial cable and/or a bigger aerial
[15:34:54] justinh: or maybe an amplifier
[15:35:18] iamlindoro: And aim more accurately
[15:35:28] iamlindoro: (if directional)
[15:35:29] justinh: but first you need to see how reception is when there's only one tuner on the wire. no splits, and as short as possible
[15:35:40] wasteur: thanks – i'm actually at a very basic level. i've currently just got the two prong aerials that came with my usb nova 500 card.
[15:35:49] justinh: and if you're trying with one of those bee sting antennas, PUT THEM IN THE BIN NOW
[15:35:54] wasteur: :-)
[15:36:03] justinh: they're USELESS
[15:36:05] iamlindoro: yeah, throw away any "included" antenna
[15:36:07] wasteur: i've read that all indoor aerials are rubbish – is that true?
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[15:36:15] wasteur: i don't have roof access.
[15:36:15] justinh: or..their uses do not include T Vreception
[15:36:29] justinh: not all are rubbish, no
[15:36:34] iamlindoro: I've put an outdoor antenna in an attic crawlspace with good effect before
[15:36:41] justinh: me too
[15:36:55] wasteur: good news – any particular (budget) recommendations?
[15:37:13] iamlindoro: cheap and good tend not to coincide with one another when it comes to television
[15:37:31] stuarta: totally depends on your location and proximity to TX
[15:37:45] justinh: an expensive indoor aerial won't be expensive...like car :P
[15:38:43] justinh: gah. this ups was charging & was still seen on lsusb. now it ain't
[15:39:09] justinh: so. back it goes. ducking useless ducking ebuyer they can ducking go to ducking hell
[15:39:29] ** iamlindoro drives JYA out into the desert, points at something interesting, clubs him in the back of the head with a shovel, and digs a shallow grave **
[15:39:58] justinh: lol
[15:40:23] wasteur: ok – thanks for your advice. i'll be back in a day or so with questions about settings up slaves... cheers.
[15:40:24] gbee: if relevant, discuss installation of decent external aerials for tenants etc with your building management
[15:40:35] justinh: leave him out for the coyotes iamlindoro
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[15:40:41] justinh: and buzzards
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[15:40:58] iamlindoro: justinh: Need to solve the "physical evidence" problem. hmm...
[15:41:16] ** iamlindoro puts a vat of acid into the trunk **
[15:41:24] justinh: live pig-feed ?
[15:42:58] iamlindoro: calcium oxide?
[15:43:13] gbee: no volcanos locally?
[15:43:24] sid3windr: *** glibc detected *** /usr/bin/mythbackend: malloc(): memory corruption (fast): 0x0000000005a1cf9f ***
[15:43:28] sid3windr: anyone interested in a backtrace? :)
[15:43:45] iamlindoro: gbee: ooh, clever
[15:43:48] gbee: volcanoes ... damn typos
[15:44:47] justinh: iamlindoro: you don't need to get rid of the evidence
[15:44:51] gbee: iamlindoro: sure we'd get enough donations from people here to 'reward' him with a trip to Hawaii
[15:45:02] justinh: not with all the people here who can vouch for you :D
[15:45:29] gbee: .. and other here is an active lava tube ...
[15:45:31] justinh: s/Hawaii/Wolverhampton
[15:45:32] gbee: over
[15:45:59] wombo: Actually i quite often work at a few places with a few bit tanks of acid if that helps?
[15:46:07] justinh: ah. no lava tubes in wolverhampton
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[15:46:21] iamlindoro: aaaaaanyhoo
[15:46:26] wombo: sulpheric acid to be precise, and the tanks are bigger than houses
[15:46:42] justinh: iamlindoro: so. having problems playing back your teevee? here,have some of this crack...it's free
[15:46:51] wagnerrp: yeah, im sure the cleaning tanks at one of my old jobs would have done the trick
[15:46:52] iamlindoro: The first release is anyway
[15:47:20] iamlindoro: Can't wait until .22 is out and he finds something from trunk to backport to that... and the cycle of insanity continues
[15:47:32] gbee: iamlindoro: you'd have an uncomfortable few hours trying to explain away this conversation if he were to coincidently disappear in the next few days ;)
[15:47:49] wombo: haha
[15:47:56] wagnerrp: gbee: except for distance most likely
[15:47:56] iamlindoro: gbee: I find that "on a separate continent" is a tidy alibi :)
[15:48:04] justinh: rofl
[15:48:18] justinh: never underestimate the feds' incompetence
[15:48:40] justinh: new zealand...that's a US state now, right?
[15:48:47] iamlindoro: Aren't they all?
[15:49:02] wombo: the sheep are actually Fed agents
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[15:49:25] ** J-e-f-f-A just bought a 15' firewire cable from fleabay..  ;-) **
[15:49:44] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: why not use something like monoprice
[15:49:50] mkrufky: there's a 15' 6 to 4 going for $3.99 on newegg
[15:49:57] gbee: yeah right, and mine's 20'
[15:49:59] wagnerrp: after shipping, it would probably be cheaper
[15:50:08] gbee: oh, you said firewire cable
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[15:50:16] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Actually, it was from monoprice on ebay – $8.75 or so including shipping...
[15:50:57] wagnerrp: i dont understand why legitimate stores keep ebay auctions...
[15:51:20] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: more exposure than just 'normal' web traffic...
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[15:51:50] ** iamlindoro shoots mkrufky and runs off into the jungle **
[15:51:55] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: And their ebay auction ended up being about $1 cheaper with shipping...
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[15:52:26] wagnerrp: here we go... 15' 6-to-6 black... $8.08
[15:52:49] wagnerrp: and they get more out of that sale, because the CC companies take less than ebay and paypal
[15:53:28] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Have you pinged danielk re: the channel scan branch yet?
[15:53:55] mkrufky: no
[15:54:02] mkrufky: i have nothing to ping him about iamlindoro
[15:54:17] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Thought you had experienced the same duplicated channel issue there?
[15:54:37] iamlindoro: And also some missing channels?
[15:54:52] mkrufky: i experienced a built tree, and then i experienced no life, no sleep, too much work, and no time to do anything that i actually want to do
[15:55:04] mkrufky: maybe on saturday?
[15:55:06] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Ok, $8.44 shipped is what I just paid from their ebay auction... Oh well, I could have saved 34 cents... ;-)
[15:55:21] iamlindoro: mkrufky: Easy, tex, we're all friends here
[15:55:40] mkrufky: im sorry, i didnt mean to be harsh ... just speakin my mind ;-)
[15:55:48] mkrufky: i sent a message to some guy on linux-media explaining that i tried out the new scanning and that its seems much better than 021
[15:55:59] mkrufky: but i didnt really have enough time to give it a real try myself
[15:56:10] mkrufky: i did that test on sunday, then i left the house abruptly
[15:56:19] mkrufky: and i hadnt had a moment since then for anything at all :-/
[15:56:56] ** J-e-f-f-A can relate to mkrufky !!!!! **
[15:57:14] mkrufky: .... i *did* notice that i lost the 2 muxes due to scan "replacement" behavior ....... so i dont think the problem that i was specifically complaining about has been fixed in the new scanner branch
[15:58:14] iamlindoro: Since that branch is probably going to get merged back in for .22, the more you can at least mention to Daniel, the better
[15:58:54] mkrufky: i didnt actually look into the issue yet, obviously, but i did some thinking about it, and one easy fix would be to change the "unique identifier" from whichever column represents the "1008–0" to that column, PLUS the freqID column
[15:58:55] iamlindoro: Locally we're seeing the first 80 or so analog channels converted to Digital/ClearQAM, so I too would enjoy accurate scans :)
[15:59:23] mkrufky: whatever it is, the "1008–0" is being trreated as a unique identifier, and when a new 1008–0 is found on another mux, the first mux is obliterated
[15:59:50] mkrufky: im not going to talk to daniel about it until i know for sure what im talking about
[16:00:01] mkrufky: what i said here today — i *might* be right, but i have no proof yet
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[16:02:29] wombo: Just a query guys, I havent done any Linux development before (alot of windows).
[16:02:57] wombo: One think I would like to add to Mythweb is a little help popup in the Custom recording schedules screen
[16:03:23] justinh: or just improve it so it's easier to set up a new rule :)
[16:03:26] wombo: so when you choose your search type you can just hover over 'help' that will tell you how it works and the search Syntax
[16:03:26] wagnerrp: well thats not linux development
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[16:03:59] wagnerrp: thats html/js
[16:04:02] wombo: yeah I know its not much but I think it would be handy, and ive got to dip my toe in the water before doing anything bigger
[16:04:08] justinh: on my list is a similar improvement to mythfrontend
[16:04:11] wagnerrp: you dont even need that to be dynamic (ajax)
[16:04:16] wombo: for me its more getting used to using SVN
[16:04:43] wagnerrp: when you mouseover the 'MythTV' text on the navigation bar
[16:04:51] wagnerrp: to the left and down from the main mythtv logo
[16:05:01] wombo: yeah similar sort of thing
[16:05:03] wagnerrp: you get a mouseover, just copy and paste the code from that
[16:05:11] wagnerrp: change the text
[16:05:14] wombo: so you can quickly check the syntax without leaving the page
[16:06:12] wombo: I might have a look at it in the weekend, I am assuming there will be a wiki entry walking me through the SVN process for patches :)
[16:06:19] justinh: wombo: all you get to do is svn co
[16:06:30] wagnerrp: not on the myth wiki
[16:06:54] wagnerrp: just check out the repository, make your changes, and do a 'svn -diff'
[16:07:05] wagnerrp: no dash...
[16:07:05] justinh: check out the latest version, make a patch, then when you're done, svn diff > $somefile and attach $somefile to a -dev list email or a new ticket in trac
[16:07:23] justinh: tada!
[16:07:31] justinh: eek. hometime
[16:07:35] wombo: ahh ok
[16:07:49] wagnerrp: if you make any new files (should be no need), just do 'svn add' to add them into your local version tracking
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[16:08:14] J-e-f-f-A: wombo: In other words, you can't do the SVN submit – but you can submit a patch.
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[16:08:36] J-e-f-f-A: er... 'commit' ... ;-)
[16:09:01] wagnerrp: any modifications to mythweb will probably get run through kormoc before commit anyway
[16:09:09] wombo: J-e-f-f-A, yeah thats what I was think, I can propose a patch but someone with commit access needs to check it first before they can commit
[16:09:47] J-e-f-f-A: wombo: Yep. You make the change locally, create a patch, then submit that to the ticket system or the dev mailing list for review/commitment.
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[16:10:31] wagnerrp: dont bother with -dev, just put it on trac
[16:10:59] wombo: cool, well its midnight here now so I might head off to head. The place where strangely I do most of my Dev. (well at least the concepts)
[16:11:10] wombo: wagnerrp, yeah nps
[16:11:30] wombo: head actually meant bed lol
[16:11:52] wombo: haha
[16:12:26] wagnerrp: i dont know about development, but i know i tend to do a lot of my problem solving there
[16:12:42] wagnerrp: i often tend to come up with a solution to a problem while half asleep
[16:13:00] wagnerrp: meaning its going to be a late night as i stay up and write it, because i wont remember a thing in the morning
[16:13:16] wombo: but then I forget some of the important bits by the time I wake up :(
[16:13:41] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: hehe... I was going to say the same thing...  ;-) (writing down so I woudn't forget by the morning!)
[16:18:22] iamlindoro: I'd like to start having good ideas someday
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[16:20:34] iamlindoro: And for those who missed it last night: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/353559
[16:20:39] iamlindoro: Because I am a FUNNY SOB
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[16:24:04] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: hehe... The patch is a nice touch! ;-)
[16:24:13] iamlindoro: I strive for authenticity
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[16:36:16] wagnerrp: cute
[16:42:02] iamlindoro: Hahah, early screening copy of the new Wolverine movie leaked on the Interwebs, whoops!
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[16:45:18] mkrufky: yeah but its not HD, is it?
[16:45:44] iamlindoro: I don't know, I would imagine not
[16:45:47] mkrufky: <-- this HD snob has enough to watch .... i can wait for HD
[16:45:54] mkrufky: hehe although the movie looks good
[16:47:37] wagnerrp: supposedly its an incomplete copy
[16:47:38] mkrufky: omg, they have h264 aac screeners out...
[16:47:40] mkrufky: i take it back
[16:47:45] mkrufky: im down :-D
[16:48:03] wagnerrp: missing a lot of the polish that goes into a film in the last month or two
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[16:48:25] iamlindoro: easy now
[16:48:41] iamlindoro: I only mentioned it because I read an article, we're rapidly going down prohibited roads
[16:49:16] meshe: going to see that in the theatre on the day it's relased, my husband is a huge wolverine fan
[16:50:16] iamlindoro: Looks better than I expected it to, I'll probably see it
[16:50:33] meshe: yeah, the previews look pretty good
[16:50:50] meshe: before i met my husband i was like X-Who?
[16:52:02] meshe: but i've enjoyed the movie series so far
[16:52:52] wagnerrp: so is wolverine effectively immortal?
[16:53:01] wagnerrp: i mean hes well over 100 years old now isnt he?
[16:53:02] GreyFoxx: wagnerrp: Pretty much
[16:53:27] GreyFoxx: he is in the comics, no idea about the movie
[16:53:43] wagnerrp: i seem to remember something about him fighting in WW1
[16:53:48] meshe: you could probably take his heart out and kill him, actually Rogue could probably kill him
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[17:20:37] kormoc: You know, addressing the list as 'Team' gets on my nerve, it just feels inhuman'
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[17:22:15] iamlindoro: kormoc: There's the added element of "does this person include themselves in 'team'?"
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[17:24:18] iamlindoro: The "we're all in this together" philosophy seems to be universally people who just want things done for them ;)
[17:24:22] Shadow__X: wagnerrp, no he isnt immortal he has the power to heal which makes his age slower
[17:24:33] Shadow__X: also thats my he was able to be infused with atomantium
[17:24:51] iamlindoro: "adamantium."
[17:24:53] Shadow__X: iamlindoro, there is also moral support
[17:24:56] iamlindoro: </nerd>
[17:25:03] kormoc: iamlindoroexactly
[17:25:03] Shadow__X: so sorry i cant spell as wella syou
[17:25:03] iamlindoro: moral support is useless
[17:25:06] Shadow__X: as you*
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[17:27:16] kormoc: Yeah, using 'Team' really feels like executive level manager bullcrap
[17:27:31] GreyFoxx: What thread is that in ?
[17:28:17] kormoc: Re: Ticket #6412: mythbackend segfaults
[17:28:26] kormoc: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/377511#377511
[17:30:13] GreyFoxx: ahh
[17:30:46] kormoc: It's totally irrational, just something that bugs me :)
[17:32:21] wagnerrp: kormoc: my dad always complains when they make him wear blue shirts and play laser tag
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[17:37:41] J-e-f-f-A: - Remember, "There is no 'I' in TEAM. But there is a 'ME' in there if you jumble the letters around a little bit!" <- from an episode of House I saw the other night... ;-)
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[17:40:20] LonEagle: J-e-f-f-A: also "MEAT"
[17:40:46] meshe: TAME
[17:40:56] meshe: MATE
[17:41:06] kormoc: TAME MEAT
[17:41:15] iamlindoro: My team is all dudes, there's no MATE in that TEAM
[17:41:28] iamlindoro: and no, I'm not interesting in branching out
[17:42:45] ** kormoc twiddles his thumbs for his 4 gigs of ram for his desktop **
[17:42:59] J-e-f-f-A: hehe... ;-)
[17:43:04] justinh: bah. UPS still not appearing on lsusb. it's broked. time to file an RMA
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[17:53:31] kormoc: j-rod, So I hear you're gonna make it to LFNW?
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[17:55:13] j-rod: kormoc: nope. was going to try, plans fell through.
[17:55:22] kormoc: Aww! too bad
[17:55:50] j-rod: I actually put in to do a talk a few months back, had to let them know earlier this week that I couldn't make it
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[17:56:22] j-rod: family vacation in vermont won over a solo trip to seattle
[17:56:33] kormoc: Heh, fair 'nuff
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[17:57:20] j-rod: hm... p3/933 + a pci gf8 or gf9 card... vdpau... what could go wrong?
[17:57:50] j-rod: I find it amusing you can get a pci gf8/9, but not an agp one
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[17:57:54] ** kormoc looks at his semi-dead card **
[17:58:28] kormoc: I'm sad, the pool of partying folks for LFNW is drying up
[17:58:29] iamlindoro: j-rod: You can buy a mobo w/ PCI, you can't buy a mobo w/ AGP
[17:58:38] iamlindoro: A current one, that is
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[18:00:11] j-rod: hm. true.
[18:00:23] j-rod: plenty of agp-based systems still out there tho
[18:00:46] kormoc: yeah, but those can use the pci cards as well
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[18:01:20] j-rod: of course, of the 7 boxes in my cube right now, none have agp slots
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[18:03:24] j-rod: I wish the D945GCLF2 had a pci-e slot instead of pci
[18:03:36] j-rod: I'd like a pony too
[18:04:02] iamlindoro: sphery: I can't wait to see you get to the bottom of the "cover art" thread
[18:04:18] iamlindoro: sphery: As this is just getting strange
[18:04:24] iamlindoro: sphery: Missing dep?
[18:04:27] justinh: grrr never buying from ebuyer again. Ever
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[18:06:15] sphery: iamlindoro: I can't figure it out, either...
[18:06:22] justinh: effing DOA policy is.. they test it & if they find it to be working they return it & you pay. yet under distance selling regs you can tell them to shove it for whatever reason you want
[18:06:32] meshe: selinux?
[18:06:39] sphery: possible...
[18:06:47] sphery: but if so, then shouldn't imdb.pl also fail?
[18:07:20] meshe: depends on file ownership iirc
[18:07:46] meshe: not sure, all i know about selinux is that it causes absolutely bizzare errors
[18:07:53] sphery: actually, 0.21-fixes imdb.pl doesn't use ./MythTV/MythVideoCommon.pm, so with selinux, tmdb.pl would fail (since it does) and imdb.pl (from -fixes) wouldn't for that reason, at least.
[18:08:18] meshe: like *beat head against wall until you go through wall* bizarre errors
[18:08:32] sphery: Finally having him run the script directly from the command line to see what output he gets.
[18:08:35] sphery: Probably much more informative
[18:09:04] iamlindoro: I want to punch every person who creates a movie in TMDB only to upload the poster right in the face
[18:09:05] meshe: is it the FE calling tmdb?
[18:09:13] iamlindoro: at least write a half-assed plot
[18:09:20] iamlindoro: I'll fill in the other half-ass
[18:09:29] j-rod: so does 8400 vs. 9400 make any difference at all for vdpau?
[18:09:55] iamlindoro: j-rod: the 9400 will likely manage the advanced deinterlacers better
[18:10:54] j-rod: good to know
[18:11:12] j-rod: so $75 for a PCI 9400GT
[18:11:43] j-rod: which I could play with in both my supah awesome p3/933 and my lf2...
[18:12:13] ** j-rod curses intel for cock-blocking on the ion **
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[18:13:23] sphery: meshe: yeah, or specifically, MythVideo
[18:15:26] meshe: ahh, then the users/environment should be the same
[18:15:33] iamlindoro: j-rod: In what way? They're still coming
[18:15:55] iamlindoro: j-rod: The "Hornet" ION design leaked a few days ago, $149–299ish
[18:16:05] j-rod: I'm impatient
[18:16:16] iamlindoro: j-rod: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/31/ion-based- . . . mi-playback/
[18:16:31] j-rod: so did intel actually lift the 'though shalt only buy an atom w/a 945 chipset bundled' thing?
[18:16:45] iamlindoro: j-rod: Yeah
[18:16:50] iamlindoro: You also may enjoy....
[18:16:51] iamlindoro: http://www.slashgear.com/acer-hornet-ion-nett . . . 8th-0139711/
[18:17:19] iamlindoro: So yeah, if that's true you can be impatinet til... next Wednesday ;)
[18:17:42] iamlindoro: Note that that second story is from 4/1, so YMMV
[18:18:18] iamlindoro: er "impatient"
[18:21:16] j-rod: just as long as I don't have to be incontinent until next Wednesday
[18:22:40] sphery: Corsair 400W 80 PLUS PSU for $29.99 after $20 MIR w/ promo code EMCLRLN23 , again ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008 )
[18:22:57] sphery: j-rod: are you going to be on the ocean, then?
[18:23:12] meshe: now i'm curious what they'll bring out with that in their netbook line, i'll be buying one soon
[18:23:12] sphery: if you're "off continent" that is :)
[18:23:33] meshe: or do i wait and see if the apple netbook rumors are true...
[18:23:35] j-rod: haha
[18:24:15] j-rod: ok, so I'll hold off buying that pci card for now
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[18:32:30] iamlindoro: You could be inpertinent till then if you like
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[18:35:58] iamlindoro: sphery: His problem has *got* to be some bizarre SELinux issue
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[18:37:52] iamlindoro: (or similar)
[18:37:56] gbee: wasn't Jobs rumoured to say they wouldn't make a netbook, because he didn't think they could build something that cheap which wouldn't be a pile of junk?
[18:40:29] meshe: that's an odd statement with all the other netbook manufacturers making decent products. I'd even pay a premium over the others for an apple netbook, i just need *small*
[18:41:41] kormoc: It wasn't Jobs, but a apple rep who said they felt right now wasn't the right time
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[18:42:50] gbee: whole point of a netbook is cheap, you can get small laptops or even smaller devices, but netbooks by design are small + cheap (something that not every manufacturer really gets)
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[18:43:40] gbee: I think Apple are in effect saying they don't want to be associated with 'cheap' products, even if they are perfectly decent quality
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[18:44:08] meshe: the problem is i want the small, and the apple
[18:44:14] meshe: 10" please
[18:44:38] gbee: hardly suprising when their whole business is built around premium – slap Apple on a laptop and you can charge £500 more than the same device under any other brand name
[18:44:46] Shadow__X: hmm but how about the cramped keyboards
[18:44:53] gbee: meh, 10" is too big ;) 9" please :)
[18:44:55] janneg: «We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk and our DNA will not let us ship that» steve jobs, last october
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[18:45:09] XLV: the lg one with led backlit tft is nice
[18:45:10] meshe: Shadow__X: the asus 1000HE is almost full sized
[18:45:24] LonEagle: man nothing like trying to set up a remote to remind you that myth uses a LOT of keys
[18:45:34] Shadow__X: my friend has a asus 1000 H i believe too small for me
[18:45:59] XLV: but i am waiting for something with dual core atom, and a better chipset than 945, eg pulsbo ( dell has some netbooks already out with that chipset ) or some nvidia 9400 igp
[18:46:35] XLV: intel accelerator 500 is the name of the chipset in dell's page
[18:46:38] Shadow__X: the macbok aluminum is a good size for me
[18:46:45] gbee: Shadow__X: my 9" Aspire has a near full size keyboard, just an inch shorter than the keyboard in front of me now, which it gains through narrower caps/tab/backspace/shift
[18:47:11] Shadow__X: hmm which aspire
[18:47:32] meshe: i want one for my commute, which has me riding on trains with barely enough legroom
[18:47:53] gbee: entirely usable for what it's designed to do (netbooks are never going to replace desktops or laptops for those who use them for more than a couple of hours a day)
[18:47:57] meshe: take the macbook air and shrink it
[18:48:13] gbee: Shadow__X: original Aspire One
[18:48:26] Shadow__X: the the mouse buttons on the sides
[18:48:46] Shadow__X: yeah i have tried the netbooks and want to find one that is confiratble for me just none of them are
[18:48:58] sphery: janneg: and this from the company that introduced the "people's mac" (original Mac Mini) at $499 (versus today's $599)... Guess he either meant that they've /forgotten/ how to make a decent computer for $500 or, perhaps, that the original Mac Mini was a piece of junk...
[18:49:01] gbee: yeah, though I never use the buttons, single tap does the same job
[18:49:13] Shadow__X: it feels very cramped and completely not comfortable i have a hp omnibook 500 and thats ok
[18:49:43] Shadow__X: gbee, the tecture of the mouspad gets me too those feel weird
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[18:53:11] gbee: Shadow__X: yeah on the One it's below the plastic of the case rather than something which sits in a hole in the plastic – heat sensitive job I believe, nice from a cleaning perspective but a little strange if you are used to a textured pad
[18:54:16] Shadow__X: yeah thats all i am saying i have been trying to find something around 13–10 inch size that i can use to suplement my desktop replacement 17inch latptop and think 13inch macbook is where i am landing on
[18:55:16] Shadow__X: i havnt bought it yet but size wise and being comfortable i think 13 inch
[18:55:34] gbee: as I say, thinks like that might bother me more if it was something I'd be spending hours using, but for me it's just something I can throw into a bag on the chance I'll need it, rather than a device I'd spend hours working on
[18:55:36] Shadow__X: but thats me a friend of mine is happy with his asus eeepc 1000H
[18:55:53] Shadow__X: ah right i use my n810 kinda like that
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[18:57:03] janneg: sphery: I don't care and wouldn't buy an intel mac
[18:57:12] meshe: I'll probably be buying a 1000HE in the next 30 days or so if nothing else great comes up by then, specced at 9.5 hours of battery life
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[18:58:50] gbee: for that reason the trend towards larger and heavier netbooks is going the wrong way IMHO – a 9" netbook, weighing under 1Kg and using an SSD is where it should be ... these 10–11" things with HDDs and weighing anything upto 1.5Kg and costing £220+ are missing the point – might as well get a 13" laptop instead
[18:59:29] gbee: but not everyone agrees, wouldn't be able to sell them if they did :)
[18:59:44] Shadow__X: :)
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[19:03:34] android60: im a tad confused over the whole qam/clearqam thing. I have just basic cable right now, so I will not be able to pick up anything other than sd channels right?
[19:04:24] sphery: iamlindoro: there, I've given up on Cover Art thread.
[19:04:38] iamlindoro: QUITTER!
[19:05:28] sphery: android60: you'll be able to pick up any of the unencrypted channels to which you have subscribed that are available on the cable line
[19:05:57] android60: sphery, i dont have a cable box or anything like that, does that make a difference?
[19:06:20] sphery: android60: there may be unencrypted HDTV channels on there even if you've purchased an analog basic cable lineup, and you'll have to talk to your cable company to see if receiving those channels would be a violation of the service agreement
[19:06:28] sphery: s/receiving/using/
[19:06:54] sphery: android60: if you don't have a cable box, the channels you're currently getting are not encrypted
[19:06:58] android60: ok, now, I read somewhere about using the splitting the line going to my cable modem, because it unfiltered might make a difference, would it?
[19:07:13] android60: using / splitting **
[19:07:16] iamlindoro: sphery: Well, his subscription has no bearing on what he gets via QAM :)
[19:07:32] android60: is qam / clearqam the same thing?
[19:07:37] sphery: iamlindoro: right, but it has a bearing on whether he's /allowed/ to access those QAM channels
[19:07:45] iamlindoro: sphery: true true
[19:08:02] iamlindoro: QAM is the modulation, ClearQAM is the co-opted marketing term for QAM channels in the US which are unencrypted
[19:08:04] wagnerrp: if theyre broadcasting them, the cableco has decided hes allowed
[19:08:08] GreyFoxx: android60: The cable modem does not require an unfiltered cable line to work
[19:08:13] sphery: QAM is a modulation... ClearQAM just means that the data transmitted using QAM is not encrypted
[19:08:18] GreyFoxx: if your installer was lazy that's one thing
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[19:08:29] wagnerrp: when all it takes is for you to plug your TV into the wall to get those channels, youre allowed to use them
[19:08:34] GreyFoxx: but you cannot assume your cable modem line is different than your regular stuff
[19:08:44] android60: GreyFoxx, I know the cable modem is on an unfiltered line for sure
[19:08:54] sphery: wagnerrp: without seeing his service agreement and consulting a lawyer, I wouldn't necessarily agree
[19:09:20] android60: my provider is knology if anyone knows anything about them
[19:09:33] wagnerrp: if its broadcast into your home, you have a right to access it
[19:09:37] android60: and actually, i didnt sign an agreement with them because it comes "free" with my complex
[19:09:47] wagnerrp: and since its unencrypted, there is no DMCA violation using it
[19:09:47] sphery: now, whether the service agreement would be /enforceable/ if they have unencrypted channels that he's not paying to receive available on the line would be another matter
[19:09:57] sphery: I'm not talking DMCA
[19:10:01] sphery: I'm talking service agreement
[19:10:07] sphery: contract with the cable company providing service
[19:10:57] android60: i dont have a contract . i never saw anything related to cable when i signed rental agreement for comple
[19:11:01] android60: complex*
[19:11:43] sphery: wagnerrp: by that reasoning, you're allowed to watch all of the VOD channels that your neighbors are paying to recieve... I'll bet that the cable co would /not/ agree with that.
[19:11:56] kormoc: Typically when you signed your lease, you agreed to abide by and contracts they had with service providers, you should ask to see those agreements
[19:12:05] android60: so basically, i just need to connect any cable line in my house to the digital / atsc line on my hauppauge 1800 and see what i get?
[19:12:18] android60: and ask if its ok to use it
[19:12:21] wagnerrp: sphery: i think you should be allow to watch your neighbor's VOD to your heart's content
[19:12:25] sphery: (as many cable co's transmit VOD unencrypted, but figure no one will "steal" it because their STB's don't know about it)
[19:12:36] wagnerrp: however after a few minutes, you get bored of it, and go back to more traditional content
[19:12:37] sphery: wagnerrp: only in your neighbor's house/through his STB  :)
[19:13:39] android60: if i connect the line to the digital on my tuner, will it pick up all channels or only the clearqam ones that exist?
[19:13:51] wagnerrp: only the clearqam ones
[19:13:54] sphery: wagnerrp: or, it means that those who get internet only from a cable co are allowed to watch all the unencrypted basic TV /without/ paying for the basic TV package
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[19:14:16] Ymse: cannot create a file //.test – directory is not writable
[19:14:19] sphery: basically, though, it's theft of service
[19:14:20] android60: wagnerrp, will myth auto detect to use that line or do i need to specify it somewhere
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[19:14:27] wagnerrp: you *will* pick up all channels, but they will be encrypted and it wouldnt be of much worth capturing them
[19:14:29] sphery: Ymse: what program are you running
[19:14:51] Ymse: Mythbuntu...
[19:14:53] sphery: Ymse: if you're running a myth program and getting that, you have to set a HOME environment variable in the environment in which the app is running
[19:15:09] sphery: MythBuntu is a distribution, not a program, but I'm guessing that's from mythbackend or mythfrontend or ...
[19:15:12] wagnerrp: android60: you need to scan for 'qam256' channels, on the 'cable' channel list
[19:15:42] android60: ok
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[19:16:02] android60: so should i try the unfiltered line goign to my modem first or does it not matter?
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[19:16:34] wagnerrp: the modem sends upstream data on a separate frequency band
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[19:16:47] wagnerrp: so any amp must be designed to pass that through
[19:17:00] wagnerrp: a QAM tuner is one way only
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[19:17:15] android60: so, is that a yes? lol
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[19:17:36] Ymse: sphery: can you explain a little bit more in detail....??
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[19:17:39] wagnerrp: putting a tuner behind an amp is no problem, so long as its not a particularly noisy amp
[19:17:44] wagnerrp: what do you mean by a 'filter'
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[19:18:30] android60: im not sure, i know the guy briefly mentioned if i move the tv to be sure to hook up the line labeled filtered to the tv and the line labeled unfiltered to the modem
[19:19:10] android60: and the filtered line has a small adapter sitting between the line and the splitter
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[19:21:09] sphery: Ymse: where do you see that error message? What did you do before that message appeared?
[19:21:52] wagnerrp: there is no need to 'filter' a cable line
[19:21:56] Ymse: Spherry: I was closing the Myth Backend setup
[19:22:05] wagnerrp: however if you have multiple devices hooked up, you may need to amplify it
[19:22:17] wagnerrp: and like i said, cable modems (and STBs) dont like cheap amps
[19:22:54] sphery: Ymse: then you likely need to fix your Storage Groups configuration... Delete any groups defined (as at least one of them is saying to use the directory /, which isn't writable) and then redefine them to include only the proper directories for your recordings.
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[19:23:58] Ymse: spherry: Oki.....think that leads me to the problem.....I let you know how it works out
[19:24:31] android60: is there a rough estimate for .22 release date?
[19:24:46] justinh: gah. so now I need to ring ebuyer & talk to a 'manager'. FFS just give me my money back you robbing c***s
[19:24:49] justinh: android60: no
[19:25:00] iamlindoro: 1 day before work on .23 begins
[19:25:05] android60: ha
[19:25:17] android60: how long does it usually take between releases?
[19:25:25] iamlindoro: There's no schedule
[19:25:26] justinh: how long is this piece of string?
[19:25:31] mphill: I see a lot of options on the website for supported cards, but is there a card you guys here recommend among the others. I currently have a cable TV witha tuner box. Time Warner to be exact. Any recommendations?
[19:25:31] android60: lol
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[19:28:42] wagnerrp: iamlindoro: you think it will be a full day?
[19:28:50] iamlindoro: wagnerrp: May be two
[19:29:00] iamlindoro: might need a weekend to unwind ;)
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[19:29:10] GreyFoxx: android: It varies wildly
[19:29:12] wagnerrp: some time for relaxation and consumption of mass quantities of alcohol...
[19:29:15] iamlindoro: gbee will need to drink that case of beer I send him
[19:29:26] GreyFoxx: sometimes it's a small window, usually not
[19:29:54] wagnerrp: beer shipped oversees... i bet that would be expensive
[19:30:24] iamlindoro: Not if I ship it from local-to-him :)
[19:32:09] wagnerrp: ugh... i need another monitor
[19:32:13] RyeBrye: android60: why wait for 0.22? there's some crazy bastard who is slowly getting everyone to upgrade to 0.22-trunk by calling it 0.21-fixes with various "backports"
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[19:32:27] hadees: I hate TWC
[19:32:40] hadees: they are going to start charging me metered internet access
[19:32:45] hadees: goodbye TWC
[19:33:20] wagnerrp: hadees: you mean you have use for more than 5GB/mo?
[19:33:30] RyeBrye: I would go with metered – if it was something like $0.01 per gigabyte
[19:33:44] wagnerrp: hell, i think i use 5GB/mo just streaming music to work
[19:33:53] RyeBrye: My router records the traffic I use
[19:34:04] RyeBrye: I dont' do heavy torrents or whatnot, but I use around 300 gigs per month
[19:34:25] hadees: wagnerrp, it depends on the month but as more and more video ends up online for streaming in hire quality i can easily seeing going over that
[19:34:32] hadees: *higher
[19:34:45] RyeBrye: oh nm
[19:34:45] wagnerrp: yep... i would exceed their 5GB cap just streaming music to work
[19:34:50] RyeBrye: make that 30 Gigs per monht :)
[19:35:08] wagnerrp: i may even exceed their 10GB cap
[19:35:09] hadees: RyeBrye, they are going to charge $1 gigabyte if you go over
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[19:35:19] RyeBrye: Although I did use 100 gigs in January
[19:35:21] android60: hadees, how much are they wanting to charge you rate wise?
[19:35:35] wagnerrp: android60: see hadees's remark
[19:35:40] hadees: what i find so funny is they say "To contiunue to offer the best service" if they actually had good service already i might not be so upset
[19:36:25] hadees: android60, i'm not sure yet but the article says the low end is 29.95
[19:36:31] wagnerrp: hadees: its actually... 'to continue to offer the best service to people who dont use hulu, or netflix, or youtube, or...'
[19:36:31] hadees: so i guess thats for the 5 gigs
[19:36:49] hadees: what is so insane is i never once got the speeds i'm supposed to
[19:37:02] hadees: so now not only do i get shitty speeds i get less total through put
[19:37:09] clever: last time i actualy reached the download limit on my dsl
[19:37:12] hadees: i'm not standing for it
[19:37:15] clever: i was being DDOS'd
[19:37:15] android60: i think all isps are going to move to metered plans, just a matter of when
[19:37:23] clever: 110% load on down, 0% load on up
[19:37:25] hadees: my friend started this site, and i'm going to help admin it, http://kissmyasstimewarner.com
[19:37:34] wagnerrp: clever: so that would be... 3 users?
[19:37:54] hadees: android60, i'm not against that if it is resonable prices
[19:37:57] clever: wagnerrp: that would be over 100mbit worth of bandwidth being shoved down a 600kbyte/sec pipe
[19:37:57] justinh: the days of unmetered ISPs are over
[19:38:21] RyeBrye: My local provider sent out a survey asking if we would pay $40 more a month for something like 80 megabit
[19:38:29] RyeBrye: I was like "hell yes"
[19:38:40] RyeBrye: If i was actually real
[19:38:56] hadees: justinh, if there was real competion then there would be people offering unlimited
[19:39:06] meshe: my last ISP did 50Mbit for $150/mo
[19:39:29] hadees: lucky for me my new house i just bought has another cable provider
[19:39:53] RyeBrye: meshe: symmetric?
[19:39:56] hadees: i can pick between TWC and Grande Communications
[19:40:18] meshe: Novus, http://novusnow.ca
[19:40:28] gbee: hadees: not really, they were all offering unlimited over here until they realised they were haemorrhaging money
[19:40:30] meshe: canadian man provider
[19:40:48] gbee: bandwidth is not free
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[19:41:18] gbee: lack of infrastructure doesn't help much
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[19:42:51] justinh: ukbackbone is weak
[19:42:51] hadees: gbee, thats the real problem, otherwise how can you explain places like South Korea who have way faster broadband and I think they don't pay for per gig
[19:43:04] justinh: and the broadband links are not much better
[19:43:29] justinh: hadees: prolly because they never had much existing infrastructure
[19:43:30] hadees: if they sell me x mbits per second there is a physical limit to how much I can download a month
[19:43:34] hadees: thats how they should limit it
[19:43:59] justinh: wherever in the world has the newest & fastest put in it's usually because there was no other choice :)
[19:44:24] justinh: it'd be cheaper to make do & upgrade otherwise.. which is really what happens in most places
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[19:44:31] justinh: simple economics
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[19:44:33] hadees: justinh, yeah but they started from scratch and they pay less then us
[19:44:37] hadees: how does that work
[19:44:44] justinh: easy
[19:45:00] wagnerrp: clever: unless they were sending UDP
[19:45:08] wagnerrp: TCP would auto-throttle itself
[19:45:18] clever: wagnerrp: i checked the tcpdump, it was udp from random ports from everywhere
[19:45:19] wagnerrp: unless they were using some malformed TCP stack
[19:45:46] clever: the noob was aiming at my dns domain, so by updating the dns i could point the attack in any direction
[19:46:06] wagnerrp: which yeah, but that would take an hour to several
[19:46:13] hadees: clever, 127.0.0.1?
[19:46:15] clever: to try and restore my services, i pointed it at a friends server with 100mbit so he could relay the valid traffic back
[19:46:25] clever: it overloaded that too
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[19:47:01] clever: hadees: i could have done that too, but it wouldnt be as focused and wouldnt cause any harm to the sources, it would also cause the services i had going to go down
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[19:47:38] justinh: so, if you've got a stack of cables in your house do you tear them all out whenever you want something new or do you just change what's on either end of the wires? multiply that a few million times...
[19:48:01] clever: justinh: im mainly just changing the ends arround within the room they end at
[19:48:14] clever: only 1 cord is loose and running thru the hallways to any room
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[19:48:23] clever: its now feeding the master backend
[19:48:26] justinh: course, ripping everything out is better in the long run but do you have the time & money to invest? ;-)
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[19:48:40] hadees: justinh, yeah but i mean you don't have to tear the old ones out you just have to run new ones. I mean the problem is the companies are cheap and in south korea they were forced to do it
[19:48:43] hadees: also south korea is small
[19:49:59] justinh: ripping up streets etc .. all good fun. you can't just tie a new cable onto a phone line & pull a new one along I bet
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[19:51:25] hadees: justinh, obviously, but South Korea had to do that right? i get it costs more but they did it and pay less then us. We should at least have comparable access in our cities that re tech hubs.
[19:52:14] hadees: hopefully wimax will change things up
[19:52:25] justinh: bleh. stupid wimax
[19:52:30] gumpert345: what I dont get is why they dont use empty conduits, that way they could changes cables (copper -> glass fiber) without the expensive digging
[19:52:41] justinh: regulations
[19:52:52] hadees: gumpert345, they do that some places
[19:52:53] justinh: in the UK things are changing that way
[19:53:19] hadees: also if they are already running wires overhead some place they should just do it that way
[19:53:21] wagnerrp: gumpert345: they would have to be at least large enough to send a robot down there to spool the cable out
[19:54:14] wagnerrp: gumpert345: they usually just lay several times what they think they need (called dark fiber), so they can expand capacity with more endpoint equipment as needed
[19:55:06] gumpert345: all you need is a big tube and a rope you put in it before covering the tube with dirt, to pull other cables trough it, when needed
[19:55:37] wagnerrp: these tubes are not just straight lines
[19:55:58] wagnerrp: you pull around too many bends, or too sharp of bends, and your cable is damaged
[19:56:05] gumpert345: wagnerrp I saw that last week we have 4 wires for telephone, though only 2 are used at a time
[19:56:50] hadees: what really gets under my skin is were are starting to get charged more for less
[19:56:53] wagnerrp: actually, the second (and optional third) pair is intended for additional phone lines
[19:57:18] wagnerrp: for multi-line phones
[19:57:33] gumpert345: ISDN seems to work with 2 lines
[19:57:38] hadees: i actually have to pick what wires i'm going to get sent through my house
[19:57:48] hadees: anyone know a good banana cable?
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[19:57:53] gumpert345: hadee empty conduit
[19:57:56] gumpert345: oh sry
[19:58:02] hadees: lol
[19:58:16] wagnerrp: banana cable?
[19:58:33] wagnerrp: you mean the end plugs?
[19:58:58] hadees: wagnerrp, Banana Peel cable, its a cable with like 2 coax and 2 cat-5 cables inside it
[19:59:03] wagnerrp: gumpert345: ISDN was usually paired up over two lines (4 wires) though
[19:59:08] hadees: so you only run one wire
[19:59:13] hadees: well one bundle
[19:59:39] hadees: makes it easier when you install because you don't have to get someone to snake through a bunch of different cables
[20:00:20] gumpert345: wagnerrp did they change that lately? the Telekom guy definately plugged in only 2 wires
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[20:00:39] wagnerrp: one pair was 64kbps, two pair were 128kbps
[20:00:57] wagnerrp: most people i know used dual channel
[20:02:39] meshe: the condo i was living in the telco used the blue pair of cat 5e for phone and 2 other pairs for 100Mbit ethernet
[20:03:07] wagnerrp: yeah, 10/100 only needs two pair, gigabit needs all four
[20:03:21] meshe: i wired the other 100Mbit pais into a patch panel and used the cat5e that went to each phone jack and replaced them with RJ-45 Jacks
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[20:07:10] justinh: gumpert345: y'know the bit where you say you put a rope in the tube? well in the past everybody thought that wouldn't be needed.. so now we have a load of cables that are just buried in the ground. oops
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[20:09:23] wagnerrp: think FO is going to used for consumer purposes anytime soon?
[20:09:34] wagnerrp: seems banana peel is now offering 2x2x2 cable
[20:09:50] wagnerrp: 2 coax, 2 cat5e, 2 multimode fiber
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[20:10:53] meshe: if i was wiring my house, i'd feed fiber thorugh to future proof it
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[20:11:19] wagnerrp: for what purpose?
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[20:11:31] wagnerrp: theyve already outlines the 10GbE over UTP spec
[20:12:06] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: is that over Cat5e, or Cat6?
[20:12:20] wagnerrp: cat6, 500MHz rated
[20:12:33] gumpert345: justinh I could live with that, but all major companies, no matter if it is water, electricity or telephone, around here abide by the phrase: "who digs, loses". Thats why they wait for the other companies to open up the streets and then put their own wires in there, too.
[20:13:19] wagnerrp: oh, 650MHz
[20:13:26] gumpert345: they only repair, no upgrades whatsoever
[20:13:32] justinh: plus it's not exactly the best time to be making major investments in infrastructure
[20:13:56] wagnerrp: seems its good for 55m with existing cat6, but the full 100m range will require cat6a
[20:15:03] gumpert345: well, they got enough money to help people wreck their cars
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[20:16:27] wagnerrp: around here, water and gas are the only thing that runs through the streets
[20:16:29] wagnerrp: we have poles
[20:17:01] gumpert345: poles?
[20:17:22] meshe: wagnerrp: i guess you don't have many bad storms
[20:17:34] justinh: yeah. people from Poland who stand on the streets holding up cables
[20:17:35] wagnerrp: things sticking about 40ft out of the ground, with wires strung across the tops
[20:17:44] gumpert345: ah ok got it
[20:18:23] wagnerrp: meshe: we dont get any real bad snowstorms
[20:18:42] wagnerrp: but theres usually a handful of bad storms a year that knock out a decent amount of power
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[20:19:30] wagnerrp: we got hit really hard last summer, when one of the hurricanes passed through here with tropical storm strength
[20:19:40] wagnerrp: most of the city lost power, some for more than a week
[20:21:00] meshe: ouch
[20:21:37] gumpert345: no problem, as long as internet still works
[20:22:05] wagnerrp: how would you power your computer?
[20:22:22] gumpert345: battery
[20:22:45] wagnerrp: thats a rather huge battery
[20:23:36] gumpert345: you might need some of those solar panels on your roof
[20:23:41] gbee: generator is the only real answer
[20:23:57] wagnerrp: thats a lot of solar panels, and still a rather large battery
[20:23:58] meshe: um, laptop :)
[20:24:26] gbee: heh, with a massive stash of spare batteries?
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[20:24:48] gumpert345: fat kids on electrified exercise bikes
[20:24:54] meshe: lol
[20:25:06] justinh: bah just incinerate all the fatties
[20:25:11] wagnerrp: to keep my network running for a week with one laptop, it would take roughly 100x the battery capacity of my laptop
[20:25:14] gbee: laptops are better than a UPS for small outages, but for anything lasting hours ...
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[20:25:35] justinh: don't talk to me about UPS :P
[20:25:55] wagnerrp: my two UPSs are each about twice the capacity of my laptop
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[20:26:08] wagnerrp: with a third about the same capacity
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[20:26:38] wagnerrp: so that might give me 10 hours...
[20:27:07] wagnerrp: if i wanted to, i could connect my laptop directly to the modem, and get a little less than double that
[20:27:10] gbee: running the laptop
[20:27:11] justinh: you could always do what somebody here does & hook up a shedload (literally) of old car batteries
[20:27:55] wagnerrp: deep cycle marine would be better
[20:28:38] justinh: well yeah if you were buying stuff :)
[20:28:39] sphery: Concorde Lifeline ftw! (but those are expensive)
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[20:29:16] justinh: y'know it's well within my capabilities to build my own UPS.. but doing all the fancy readouts etc is a pain & involves micros.. so just buy one :)
[20:29:23] wagnerrp: i think somewhere over 1M people were out of power
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[20:30:10] wagnerrp: yeah, the only reason something like that would be worthwhile is if you were going to make a whole home UPS
[20:30:13] sphery: The last hurricane to hit here dropped 27.65" of rain and caused massive flooding, but I never lost power.  :)
[20:30:26] wagnerrp: something a few kVa, with a few hours of uptime
[20:30:30] dschlenk: in mpls, mn, a couple years ago we had straight line winds that took out our pole. no power for 5 days. lost everything in the deep freeze.
[20:30:40] justinh: but then, do I need all the readouts? hmmm. easy to poll a serial or parallel port pin & set that from a mains fail detector.. easy to float charge a big battery & run an inverter
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[20:30:51] wagnerrp: although at that point, i would really rather have a big flywheel
[20:31:30] wagnerrp: plus a flywheel would be FAR more reliable, and would not need replacement
[20:31:40] sphery: I thought about doing a nice UPS based on deep-cycle marine batteries, but I couldn't figure out what to use for the charger...
[20:31:41] gbee: perpetual motion generator
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[20:32:30] justinh: sphery: big SMPSU
[20:32:44] sphery: I had no idea what kind of charger wuold be happy just doing a float charge forever (with a couple of topping charges per year)
[20:33:14] justinh: or possibly just a car battery charger type affair
[20:33:34] justinh: i.e. transformer, bridge rectifier & that's it :)
[20:33:46] sphery: justinh: yeah, that's pretty much what the DIY article said-- http://www.dansdata.com/diyups.htm --but other people were telling me I'd be better off with a real charger
[20:33:58] justinh: for lead-acid? unlikely
[20:34:05] sphery: I finally admitted to being too mired in my own ignorance and dropped the plan
[20:34:16] wagnerrp: i just dont like the concept of AC to DC to AC, and then maybe back to DC
[20:34:38] justinh: heh, develop your own uninterruptable ATX PSU then :D
[20:34:41] sphery: wagnerrp: yeah, I was going to switch to DC->DC PSU's
[20:35:01] wagnerrp: i mean thats why im saying flywheel
[20:35:08] wagnerrp: consumes AC, provides AC
[20:35:15] sphery: http://www.opussolutions.net/catalog/product_ . . . oducts_id=48 among other PSU's...
[20:35:28] sphery: ah, I see...
[20:35:41] wagnerrp: ive never seen any large wattage DC PSUs
[20:35:46] wagnerrp: but then ive never really looked
[20:35:47] sphery: I'm not much happier with AC->DC, having switched most of my systems to 80 PLUS...
[20:35:50] sphery: amazing the difference
[20:35:55] justinh: wagnerrp: radio ham PSUs
[20:36:01] sphery: the one I linked is 360W
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[20:36:33] dschlenk: yeah buddy up with a ham and he'll build you one if you make him an antenna
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[20:36:41] wagnerrp: but $190?
[20:37:01] wagnerrp: and its only 20-pin
[20:37:44] wagnerrp: i realize it has a lot of extra intelligence for low voltage situations, and triggers
[20:38:16] sphery: My master backend is pulling an average of 151 with AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (either 65W or 70W TDP), 1GB RAM, 2x1.5TB HDD, 1x750GB HDD, 1x GF5200, 2x pcHDTV HD-3000, 1x Rosewill SATA/IDE card, integrated audio.
[20:38:24] sphery: And, yeah, the $190 is a lot...
[20:38:44] sphery: But compared to the cost of the batteries I was considering, it's not bad :)
[20:38:59] android60: sphery how much monthly does that add to your bill?
[20:39:01] sphery: Oh, that 151 is 151W
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[20:39:14] sphery: android60: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/371460#371460
[20:39:41] wagnerrp: well my basement is pulling 300W currently
[20:39:44] sphery: android60: for me, power is $0.10/kwH up to 1000kWh, then $0.12/kWH for the rest
[20:39:54] ** J-e-f-f-A shudders to think what his backend is consuming... 600W ps, 6x500GB 2x200GB – 4GB ram, Athlon 64 x2 4800+ ... + Tuners, gfx, etc...  ;-) **
[20:41:08] sphery: android60: but in short, having switched the mbe from a cheap PSU to an 80 PLUS, it's gone from ~ $12.20/mo to ~ $10.68/mo
[20:41:18] android60: not bad
[20:41:29] wagnerrp: and thats my file server (1.8Ghz X2 Opty, 2GB, 14xHDD), backend (2GHz A64, 1GB, 3xtuners), firewall (embedded geode), plus my modem, ATA, HDHR, two switches, and a monitor in standby
[20:41:32] sphery: It would be about $9.38 if I didn't run BOINC/SETI@home
[20:41:34] android60: how can you figure out exactly how much any given device is using?
[20:41:44] sphery: Kill-a-Watt!!!
[20:42:05] wagnerrp: 'ups.load: 67.0' on a 450W UPS
[20:42:06] android60: ?
[20:42:10] SpaceBass: the kill-a-watt is great
[20:42:16] SpaceBass: but a real eye opener too
[20:42:28] wagnerrp: android60: its a product, you plug into a wall, and it give you an outlet to plug into
[20:42:38] android60: oh neat
[20:42:40] android60: how much?
[20:42:47] wagnerrp: i think mine was $15
[20:42:51] android60: dang
[20:42:53] android60: thats not bad
[20:42:56] android60: where did u get it?
[20:42:59] kormoc: android60, you could always, say, google it and look up the price....
[20:43:07] sphery: android60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001
[20:43:17] sphery: $20 + S&H
[20:43:30] Dibblah: Meh. killawatt is just too easy. http://pendor.org/power/
[20:43:31] sphery: if you get it on sale, you can get it for $20 with free S&H or $20 after S&H
[20:43:40] wagnerrp: so thats some $25/mo for all my downstairs hardware
[20:43:45] sphery: pendor is just doing UK, now, right?
[20:43:51] wagnerrp: the rest of the machines are laptops and/or get put into standby
[20:43:56] Dibblah: ?
[20:44:10] sphery: ah, nvm...
[20:44:12] android60: i see it only has one outlet, could you plug say a power strip into it?
[20:44:17] Dibblah: sphery: That's just my site :)
[20:44:20] android60: or would it be too much?
[20:44:29] sphery: I thought pendor was the company that makes the devices that you could read from a computer that you linked me to
[20:44:35] clever: android60: ive run several computers off a power strip thru it before
[20:44:42] Dibblah: android60: It's limited to about 3kW, ISTR.
[20:44:51] Dibblah: That's on the Euro version, of course.
[20:44:51] sphery: android60: the idea is to measure the draw per device
[20:44:52] wagnerrp: thats some pretty rapid polling
[20:45:08] Dibblah: It's not polled, as such.
[20:45:12] wagnerrp: every... 15s?
[20:45:13] clever: Dibblah: whats that thing turning on every 10mins?
[20:45:13] sphery: wagnerrp: IIRC, it's using a sound card to read it...
[20:45:23] clever: furnace?
[20:45:24] android60: sphery ya, but it would just be nice to see how say all my devices turned off use
[20:45:34] wagnerrp: ok, so its recorded pretty rapidly
[20:45:42] Dibblah: Probably the fishtank heater.
[20:45:46] Dibblah: Or the boiler.
[20:45:47] clever: ah
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[20:46:20] Dibblah: Every 4s or so.
[20:46:25] sphery: android60: I haven't tried it, but I've heard of people plugging in refridgerators to the Kill-a-Watt without problems
[20:46:30] wagnerrp: the other large spike, a florescent light?
[20:46:35] gumpert345: does someone actually use hdparm to power down the HDDs on his backend?
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[20:46:41] wagnerrp: nah... too much sustained draw
[20:46:43] clever: sphery: i did that, my fridge is the most expensive thing
[20:46:54] Dibblah: It's actually able to output the raw waveform, so I can visualise the power factor.
[20:46:58] android60: clever, did you use the one sphery linked to on newegg?
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[20:47:21] sphery: clever: what kind of load from your fridge?
[20:47:27] Dibblah: The tall spike is the freezer compressor spinning up,
[20:47:27] clever: sphery: let me open the graph
[20:47:34] wagnerrp: ah
[20:48:42] clever: sphery: 2.95 khw over 18 hours
[20:48:49] clever: which is ~118kwh a month
[20:48:55] clever: $11.26/month
[20:49:18] sphery: clever: heh, that's what my master backend was pulling with the old PSU
[20:49:20] wagnerrp: sounds about right... i think i remember some flyer claiming my fridge would consume ~1150kWh/yr
[20:49:25] clever: 2nd most expensive is the horidly designed P4 computer, with 4 drives, at 76khw a month
[20:49:47] Dibblah: In the UK, we're slightly more than £1/kW year.
[20:49:50] clever: 1416kwh a year for my fridge, i think
[20:49:57] Dibblah: Argh. W year, even.
[20:50:00] clever: wagnerrp: even worse then your flyer!
[20:51:02] justinh: pfft. amazon want £15 just for an IEC male-female lead by APC. llol
[20:55:14] android60: i know when you turn off a device it still draws small amounts. what about a power strip / surge protector, do those completely kill power draw?
[20:55:26] wagnerrp: android60: yes
[20:55:37] wagnerrp: but thats not always ideal
[20:55:46] android60: how s
[20:55:47] android60: o
[20:55:49] wagnerrp: i know my printer complains on boot if i do not properly power down
[20:55:55] dschlenk: i just rewired my basement (moved the AV/myth stuff to a half rack cabinet out of site/sound – really nice) – anyone know of a good resource for cable raceways? the local home center prices are outrageous.
[20:56:05] clever: the clock in the tv will be cleared if you 'unplug' it
[20:56:26] clever: other things can have similar problems
[20:56:44] android60: ya, didn't think about that
[20:57:01] wagnerrp: dschlenk: only place ive ever used was cableorganizer.comf
[20:57:06] clever: for some reason, my tv reads as 0 watts on my kill-a-watt
[20:57:08] clever: when off
[20:59:17] wagnerrp: dschlenk: seems their 8' price is ~$50
[20:59:25] wagnerrp: for cable raceways
[20:59:57] dschlenk: seems like i could put holes in my walls and patch them for cheaper
[20:59:58] wagnerrp: i cant imagine you have enough wires coming out to necessitate a raceway
[21:00:15] dschlenk: other ideas?
[21:00:20] wagnerrp: i would think some screws and some cableties would fit just nicely
[21:00:32] dschlenk: yeah but i'd like to have them covered with something
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[21:00:46] dschlenk: they're currently cabletied
[21:00:52] dschlenk: which is better than nothing
[21:00:58] wagnerrp: oh, so you want conduit, not raceway?
[21:01:04] dschlenk: yeah i guess
[21:01:35] gbee: hmm, my sister actually bought me a decent gift for once, this coffee's expensive stuff
[21:01:52] wagnerrp: nevermind, youre right
[21:02:01] wagnerrp: i thought raceways were those wireframe trays
[21:02:13] dschlenk: different people use the terms interchangeably
[21:02:13] wagnerrp: but those are actually trays, go figure
[21:02:16] dschlenk: it would seem
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[21:02:41] wagnerrp: anyway, they have it for $1-$2/ft
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[21:02:54] dschlenk: ok thanks
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[21:18:17] gbee: iamlindoro: see http://forums.themoviedb.org/topic/233/api-caching/ (linked at the top of the API forum)
[21:21:59] gbee: hmm, sorry, didn't look at that before posting the link, I remember there being a much longer and more detailed explanation
[21:23:39] gbee: iamlindoro: this is the one I was thinking of – http://forums.themoviedb.org/topic/230/api-is-now-being-cached/
[21:25:12] wagnerrp: hahah... http://i.gizmodo.com/5195630/iphoto-discovers . . . cookie-dough
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[21:39:06] kormoc: Wooties! I'm the first google result for resume php seattle and resume mysql seattle
[21:40:39] meshe: hah, nice
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[21:48:01] thedarkone: on a pvr – 250 there is a coax cable a svideo and line in jack how would one hook up a vcr or a stb box to it?
[21:48:29] kormoc: via coax, svideo, or the line in
[21:49:09] thedarkone: well if u do svideo u get no sound?
[21:49:17] dschlenk: thedarkone: preferably the svideo + line in
[21:49:33] kormoc: there should be a audio in on the card as well
[21:49:42] thedarkone: yeah
[21:49:51] dschlenk: so svideo + linein
[21:50:01] dschlenk: much better quality than the coax input
[21:50:02] thedarkone: but stb has rca jacks
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[21:50:13] kormoc: So... get a adapter?
[21:50:18] dschlenk: monoprice.com
[21:50:26] J-e-f-f-A: stb doesn't have s-video output?
[21:50:31] thedarkone: oh so i need to get a adapter
[21:50:43] kormoc: well, depends on the audio inputs/etc
[21:51:08] thedarkone: well stb has rca and svideo out puts
[21:51:28] J-e-f-f-A: thedarkone: Just get an 'ipod' 1/8" sterio to RCA adapter, and use it in reverse... just a couple of $
[21:51:29] thedarkone: and pvr250 has coax / svideo/ line in
[21:51:33] meshe: thedarkone: i just picked up a female rca to male miniplut for my pvr 150 for $4
[21:51:43] meshe: s/miniplut/miniplug/
[21:51:57] thedarkone: i go out and get one
[21:52:44] dschlenk: if you're faced with a device like a VCR that has no svideo there are adapters for that as well... but there are caveats
[21:53:04] dschlenk: i think going from composite out to svideo in is fine
[21:53:10] dschlenk: the other way around depends on the hardware
[21:53:50] meshe: in fact, i'm buying another 150 with mce usb remote for $40 today
[21:53:55] J-e-f-f-A: dschlenk: I've used those occasionaly and have been quite suprised at how good composite looked with a 'passive' converter...
[21:53:56] kormoc: or just use the coax and call it good
[21:54:29] J-e-f-f-A: ... Drives me crazy when I'm over someone's house and their digital cable is hooked up to their nice TV with coax... yuck...
[21:54:43] dschlenk: yeah.
[21:54:59] dschlenk: almost as annoying as scrippts strech-o-vision HD
[21:55:00] thedarkone: it looks like shit with coax
[21:55:04] kormoc: well, you're not really gonna get all that much better with svideo or what not
[21:55:10] kormoc: language...
[21:55:16] thedarkone: oh sorry
[21:55:25] thedarkone: looks like carp
[21:55:30] thedarkone: or crap
[21:55:31] thedarkone: lol
[21:56:01] J-e-f-f-A: I dunno... I think it will look tons better with s-video... and audio will be in sterio too... (although maybe the stb's are encoding stereo audio on the coax output now?)
[21:56:07] kormoc: Mmm... Looks like dinner
[21:56:24] meshe: J-e-f-f-A: they have been since the 90s
[21:56:24] dschlenk: dot crawl elimination is worth it imho
[21:56:32] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, it's gonna be a fresh signal going perhaps a foot or two, it's unlikely to really degrade that much
[21:56:33] meshe: at least
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[21:57:29] meshe: i was getting dolby pro-logic off standard cable in the 90s
[21:57:30] Dibblah: The degradation using coax is due to the chroma / luma being munged into a single signal.
[21:57:55] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: yeah, but the encoding of s-video -> Analog RF -> Decoding in the tuner back to Video/Audio introduces loss... just a waste imho.  ;-)
[21:57:56] Dibblah: ... Since it either has to be composite, or broadband.
[21:57:58] kormoc: Of course, I'm well known for not noticing that stuff
[21:58:19] J-e-f-f-A: meshe: Straight off the cable, but not out of an RF output of a STB, right?
[21:58:39] meshe: yup, out of the RF output of an STB too
[21:59:13] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, it doesn't come out of the stb outputs directly into formats, so the s-video -> rf step isn't quite true
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[21:59:54] J-e-f-f-A: meshe: Humm... I can't say I had the same experience here. Although I haven't used a cable STB for ~10 years.
[22:00:22] meshe: i used about 3 different models up until about 18 months ago
[22:00:57] meshe: my tv was hooked up using coax to the stb and would get a stereo audio channel
[22:01:41] meshe: the stb was also hooked up to my home theatre though and the tv was muted the mojority of the time
[22:02:01] dschlenk: i know my dish vip222 stb does stereo most of the time
[22:02:18] meshe: sometimes though you just don't want 12" floor speakers playing tv, like when someone is sleeping
[22:02:26] dschlenk: but sometimes it seems to fail
[22:02:45] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: I guess my point was that it's a completly unnecessary step to encode it to RF (thus losing quality), to then have to decode it in a tuner on the PVR card. Taking the S-Video output eliminates that encoding/decoding...
[22:02:51] dschlenk: the bedroom TV will detect it and flash up the fact that its now mono but then bounce back to stereo soon after
[22:03:38] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, nah, it's still 'encoded' into the svideo signal and decoded/encoded on the card, it's just different types of encoding/decoding
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[22:06:23] meshe: i'm quite happy actually that the pvr-x50's keep the dolby surround in tact when encoding them to mpeg
[22:08:10] dschlenk: well its just a properly compressed stereo signal, right? all the magic happens on the receiver, no?
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[22:10:20] meshe: not sure, it's been too long since i've looked into it
[22:10:54] pac1: My schedule for one HD channel is off by 3 minutes. The analog channel for the same station is on the hour. What could cause this?
[22:11:21] dschlenk: from what i remember the content producer just makes a stereo sound that matches up well with the decoding algorithm that is marketed as "dolby pro logic"
[22:11:43] dschlenk: which derives a center and two rear channels from that stereo signal
[22:11:47] dschlenk: using fancy math
[22:11:56] meshe: yeah, that sounds about right
[22:12:09] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: Well, when using the S-video input of a PVR, you're bypassing the tuner itself, and going right into the mpeg encoder. Therefore the signal doesn't have to be tuned and de-modulated off of the RF carrier.
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[22:13:22] dschlenk: so the pvr x50 doesn't have to do anything special for "dolby pro logic" vs just plain stereo. the only thing it could do is lossy compress the audio to the point where its unrecognizable as stereo
[22:13:54] meshe: true
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[22:14:00] sphery: which means you just need to use a sufficient sample and bitrate (i.e. 48kHz with sufficient bitrate)
[22:14:38] sphery: and even the pro logic should come through after MP2 encoding/decoding
[22:15:07] dschlenk: that said i don't really need 5.1 audio when alton brown is making pancakes. but its fun.
[22:15:58] meshe: most of what my mythbox records is movies, and surround is nice to have in your movies
[22:16:07] dschlenk: yes definitely
[22:16:26] pac1: channel 2041 starttime 2009–0408 16:03:00 endtime 2009–0408 16:33
[22:16:27] dschlenk: most of the stuff i watch where surround matters is OTA HD
[22:17:06] ** J-e-f-f-A remembers having his first dolby-surround system in 1990, and blowing his dad's mind away with surround-sound movies when he came out for a visit... ;-) **
[22:18:37] meshe: haha, i was still a teen when i bought my first surround receiver and still living at my parents house, they thought it was pretty cool
[22:18:43] ** J-e-f-f-A ... 4-head Hi-Fi Sterio VCR with surround sound was 'the bomb' back then... ;-) **
[22:19:57] hadees: someone postest a website in here a while ago that let you figure out what you can get over QAM from your cable company
[22:20:01] meshe: yup, had one of those too "wow, you can get movies in stereo?!?!?"
[22:20:02] hadees: anyone remember what site that was
[22:20:20] J-e-f-f-A: meshe: Actually, I had a JVC S-VHS recorder... was incredible...
[22:20:41] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: probably silicondust.com – the hdhomerun site...
[22:21:44] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: Yeah: Resources -> TV Channels — or: http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels_us
[22:21:53] hadees: J-e-f-f-A, yeah that was it, thanks although it isn't showing what i want
[22:22:10] hadees: i guess it doesn't have http://www.grandecom.com because it is local
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[22:22:22] hadees: or maybe it isn't actually cable, hmm i don't know
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[22:22:54] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: I think it basically gives you a 'channels.conf' – that people have submitted from their cities... You can tell cable/ota by the encoding — 8vsb is ATSC OTA, QAM is cable...
[22:22:57] hadees: nah that isn't right, it is sending stuff with out a turner to tvs
[22:23:19] hadees: i mean cable box
[22:24:15] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: what? What's your zip?
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[22:28:45] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: When I pull up my listing, there are two "source type"s in the file – Antenna and Cable. I don't know if cities with multiple cable providers would have seperate entries for each or not though... (there's only one cable provider in my city)
[22:29:22] hadees: J-e-f-f-A, yeah i'm not sure i think what the deal is grande is an oddity
[22:29:39] hadees: i've never heard of a company like them before i lived in Austin
[22:29:59] hadees: i think they layed down their own wire
[22:30:08] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: Yeah, the other thing is that kinda like 'cddb', if it's not in the database, it's because nobody has submitted a listing for that zip code yet...
[22:30:34] hadees: i'm happy i can ditch TWC though for them
[22:30:48] hadees: TWC is making me so angry
[22:31:46] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: sounds like me with Comcast... I had them for "High Speed" Internet that was anything but... Ditched them for FiOS the second it became available... I was so sick of them and their horrible support...
[22:32:26] hadees: J-e-f-f-A, TWC is rolling out metered internet usage in Austin
[22:32:46] hadees: FiOS is uverse right? how is that i heard the quality wasn't as good as cable because of the compression or something
[22:32:53] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: ugh!!!!! Yeah, I think I was reading that with you guys here earlier...
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[22:33:19] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: No – FiOS is Verizon – Fiber Internet – also TV & Phone. Very little (if any?) compression ...
[22:33:52] hadees: i think its the same thing, i wonder if the compression is different
[22:33:52] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: I pay $44.95/month for 15Mbps down/2Mbps up for Internet...
[22:34:48] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: I've seen Comcast HD here locally on other folks tv's and they obviously compress it – it's horrible picture compared to Dish HD or FiOS...
[22:35:54] hadees: J-e-f-f-A, Grande offers 12.0mbps download / 1.0mbps upload for $50
[22:36:08] iamlindoro_: OK, I'm going insane I think... I JUST edited the plot of a film on TMDB a few hours ago... and now I'm home and the *whole movie* has gone missing!
[22:36:54] hadees: iamlindoro_, was the movie Memento?
[22:36:57] iamlindoro_: Actually, *two* movies
[22:37:16] iamlindoro_: hadees, I imagine that's an inside joke I would get if I had seen Memento?
[22:37:28] hadees: iamlindoro, lol, yeah it would be ironic
[22:37:44] hadees: iamlindoro, go see memento, its in my top 5
[22:37:57] gbee: aye, watch it
[22:37:58] hadees: best editing i've ever seen in a movie
[22:38:04] J-e-f-f-A: hadees: I'm actually 'grandfathered' – as FiOS tiers use to be 5/1 15/2 and 30/5 – but they're now 10/1 20/2 and 30/5 ... and slightly higher priced.
[22:39:01] gbee: iamlindoro_: remember which ones?
[22:39:12] iamlindoro_: The Dead Pool and Sudden Impact
[22:39:28] iamlindoro_: At least they're not showing up in API or web searches here
[22:39:33] kormoc: J-e-f-f-A, it was only $9 more from my grandfathered 5–2 to 20–5
[22:39:43] ** J-e-f-f-A has had FiOS for [let me think...] I think it's been 3–1/2 years already? Yikes!!! **
[22:40:25] gbee: hmm, web searches have been known to fail when the title doesn't make it into the search index for some reason (known bug, no idea of the cause apparently)
[22:40:29] J-e-f-f-A: kormoc: Humm... I'll have to look into the prices when I get home... ;-) Although 15/2 is pretty quick...
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[22:40:46] kormoc: I love the up speed
[22:40:55] iamlindoro_: gbee, likewise with the API I guess? It was an existing movie, modified only
[22:41:08] gbee: http://themoviedb.org/movie/10650
[22:41:08] hadees: kormoc, yeah thats a great upload
[22:41:34] iamlindoro_: gbee, How'd you go about getting it? Not showing up in either search
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[22:41:47] gbee: http://themoviedb.org/movie/10651
[22:41:54] gbee: iamlindoro_: went via Clint
[22:42:22] android6011: for the guys who recommended the "P3 Kill A Watt Electricity Load Meter and Monitor " from newegg earlier, about how accurate would you say it is, and have you tried other ones
[22:42:40] iamlindoro_: gbee, clint?
[22:43:11] gbee: btw one fix is to add the title again as an alternate title for that movie, seems to force it to show up
[22:43:23] iamlindoro_: oh, eastwood :)
[22:43:25] gbee: Clint Eastwood starred/directed both
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[22:43:38] iamlindoro_: hahah, I should have picked up on that... anyway, thanks :)
[22:43:51] iamlindoro_: Definitely something about the edit that caused it, it seems like
[22:44:07] Anusien: If firewire_tester fails on every channel, that suggests 5C, yes?
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[22:44:31] kormoc: android6011, it's a simple electrical concept, consider them all very accurate
[22:44:33] gbee: iamlindoro_: probably caused the index to be rebuilt and for whatever reason when it was finished, those two were no longer in it
[22:44:42] ** J-e-f-f-A figures he's goofed off enough at work today... time to head home... ;-) **
[22:44:45] kormoc: android6011, and really, just pick the cheapest one that has the features you want
[22:45:08] gbee: annoying bug, really needs fixing but since the source isn't available that's down to Travis
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[22:46:11] iamlindoro_: gbee, Yeah, sorta discourages touching anything
[22:46:23] iamlindoro_: since I would like to be the first to benefit from my improvements :)
[22:47:05] hadees: has anyone been working on mythvideo recently?
[22:47:13] gbee: iamlindoro_: maybe mention the circumstances under which those disappeared, not sure anyone has mentioned them disappearing soon after edits were made
[22:47:19] iamlindoro_: depends on what you consider working on mythvideo
[22:47:20] hadees: well thats a silly question, i guess i'll go look at the source
[22:47:27] iamlindoro_: can you be more specific about what you'd like to know?
[22:47:42] iamlindoro_: The answer is "yes, mostly me and Greyfoxx," but there is likely some deeper query
[22:47:43] gbee: in a ticket that is
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[22:48:45] hadees: iamlindoro, im a little jealous of xbmc using the big pictures from tmdb
[22:48:52] iamlindoro_: hadees, We already do that
[22:49:02] hadees: iamlindoro, as a background?
[22:49:05] hadees: or as a poster
[22:49:09] iamlindoro_: both
[22:49:13] iamlindoro_: http://www.fecitfacta.com/tvepsupport.ogg
[22:49:25] sphery: android6011: as for the Kill A Watt's precision, it shows as small as 1W loads, kWh usage to 2 decimal places, and time to the minute... Of course, once you run for a while, it may not show that precision if more digits are necessary to the left of the decimal
[22:49:25] hadees: cool, i'll have to turn that on
[22:49:31] iamlindoro_: http://www.fecitfacta.com/detailscreen.ogg
[22:49:39] sphery: (even on time--after 99hrs, you lose minutes)
[22:49:46] iamlindoro_: hadees, There's nothing to turn on, but it's trunk only and theme-specific
[22:50:01] gbee: https://meticulo.lighthouseapp.com/projects/1 . . . borg/tickets
[22:50:03] hadees: ah, its a theme thing
[22:50:55] iamlindoro_: the only publicly available theme with some fanart support is Terra
[22:51:03] iamlindoro_: gbee, thanks
[22:51:12] gbee: hadees: http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/filmstrip_browser3.png etc
[22:51:45] gbee: http://miffteevee.co.uk/imagebin/terra_videomanager.png
[22:51:47] iamlindoro_: http://robertmcnamara.smugmug.com/gallery/706 . . . 946775_9mrYU
[22:51:53] iamlindoro_: etc, ad nauseum :)
[22:53:27] iamlindoro_: gbee, I also *really* dislike that the IMDB # must be added for it to work properly in the API
[22:53:31] Anusien: Did someone in here say they had experience with the channel changing script for a Scientific Atlanta 4250HDC?
[22:54:44] gbee: iamlindoro_: that's our API, not TMDBs, we're the ones using the IMDB as a unique ID
[22:55:05] iamlindoro_: gbee, ahh. Yuck
[22:55:09] gbee: you could propose a change to Anduin
[22:55:32] iamlindoro_: Well, MV doesn't care if it's a IMDB #
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[22:55:40] gbee: TMDB has it's own ID which could be used instead
[22:55:40] iamlindoro_: it's likely tmdb.pl's fault
[22:55:42] sphery: fanart? http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl= . . . lectric+fans
[22:56:00] Anduin: I consider using IMDB id only a bug in the tmdb script
[22:56:09] Anduin: no time to fix it now though
[22:56:18] Anduin: and there needs to be a way for now
[22:56:18] ** iamlindoro_ thinks there's an echo in here ;) **
[22:56:42] iamlindoro_: If I get annoyed enough by it I will see about cramming some perl into my head
[22:57:38] gbee: yeah it's mostly the script, but because it mimicked the old imdb script args for direct lookup
[22:58:03] iamlindoro_: There's nothing wrong with using the inetref for the arg though
[22:58:04] sphery: iamlindoro_: got info on the api?
[22:58:11] Anduin: Yeah, there is no "migrate" for IDs
[22:58:34] iamlindoro_: sphery, The TMDB one? http://api.themoviedb.org/2.0/docs/
[22:58:38] sphery: thx
[22:59:07] gbee: and it's not obvious to users which number they'd need to enter for the "Manually Enter Video #" search if that field no longer used the IMDB id
[22:59:29] iamlindoro_: gbee, Why? TMDB has it's own unique numerical IDs, just use that
[22:59:47] iamlindoro_: Right now it's IMDB because our script parses out the IMDB # instead of the TMDB #
[22:59:56] gbee: iamlindoro_: not everyone is going to be using TMDB
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[23:00:06] sphery: I was thinking we should assume it's a tmdb id first, then fallback to an imdb lookup
[23:00:11] iamlindoro_: gbee, MV is agnostic to whose numbers you use
[23:00:15] gbee: iirc if inetref is populated we use that directly for the search?
[23:00:20] Anduin: sphery: Yeah, the is the reverse of the way it sorta works now
[23:00:24] iamlindoro_: It just wants it to be A number, doesn't care whose
[23:00:31] iamlindoro_: gbee, and yes, we do
[23:01:00] iamlindoro_: ie for the TV grabber part, it is using TTVDB's inetref
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[23:01:14] iamlindoro_: as long as it's some number that can be passed to the grabber, MV doesn't care
[23:01:26] gbee: so does it fallback to the title search if that fails? i.e. if inetref is the IMDB id, the lookup will fail and it uses the title instead?
[23:01:55] iamlindoro_: gbee, No, not currently, but the default inetref is 00000000, which will always trigger a title search
[23:02:14] iamlindoro_: ie it will never even try a $somescript -D 00000000
[23:02:29] iamlindoro_: it'll always start with $somescript -M $title
[23:02:53] iamlindoro_: which returns ($someNumberDontCareWhose):$title
[23:03:24] iamlindoro_: so we just switch to parsing out the TMDB number for that, and for using the TMDB # search method in the API (which I assume exists)
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[23:03:30] gbee: iamlindoro_: 3452 = "Sudden Impact" on OMDB, = "The Matrix" on TMDB, = "La Rue" on Cineworld etc ... if the user switches grabber and two sites have overlapping non-unique IDs it will cause chaos
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[23:03:47] iamlindoro_: gbee, The user won't switch grabber mid-grab
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[23:03:57] iamlindoro_: ie who cares about what the inetref's are after the grab is done?
[23:04:22] iamlindoro_: and if you lose all the metadata, then you lose the inetref too so it wouldn't matter then either
[23:04:30] gbee: mid-grab no, but I thought what we're talking about here is performing a later grab after inetref in the database is populated
[23:04:51] iamlindoro_: gbee, So a user performing a grab on a movie with full metadata?
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[23:05:04] gbee: say because you want French from a new french site, rather than the English from IMDB
[23:05:07] iamlindoro_: OK, sure, that would return something wrong and they'd have to reset metadata and then it would work. Is that that big a deal?
[23:05:24] iamlindoro_: that's no different than the curent scripts between languages
[23:05:35] iamlindoro_: As I'm fairly sure not every script uses IMDB #s
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[23:06:43] gbee: it's messy, IMHO it would be a good idea to either prepend some identifier to the number TMDB1234, IMDB1234, TVDB1234, or add a second field tying the ID to a specific source
[23:07:24] iamlindoro_: It just seems like a lot of work for a use case that would be miniscule
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[23:07:37] iamlindoro_: How many people re-run the grabber on a movie with metadata already?
[23:07:37] gbee: since I've no interest in doing the job you are free to ignore me, just thinking aloud
[23:07:51] iamlindoro_: and of those, how many switch scripts between it?
[23:08:23] iamlindoro_: Versus the gain of swapping TMDB.pl to use the internal TMDB stuff...
[23:08:34] gbee: iamlindoro_: come 0.22, everyone – they'll need to grab the higher res posters and fanart
[23:08:34] iamlindoro_: I spent a WEEK unable to get stuff from movies I knew were there
[23:08:39] iamlindoro_: it made me insane-o
[23:08:59] iamlindoro_: all because nobody had put the IMDB # in to the movie
[23:11:13] Anduin: gbee: the new mechanism I still hope to get in there will track where the information came from (grabbers will have UIDs, not specifically to solve this but it fixes other things as well)
[23:11:30] gbee: Anduin: cool
[23:13:15] iamlindoro_: nice
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