Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, December 17th, 2008, 00:05 UTC

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[00:07:10]

sphery:

How I wish I were as creative as other users when trying to think of wrong ways of doing things like restoring a database.

[00:07:44]

iamlindoro__:

You'll just ahve to try harder

[00:07:59]

sphery:

It's really annoying when a user gets a database upgrade failure that I can't reproduce with his data.

[00:10:29]

** iamlindoro__ wonders about the ethical concerns of complaining about a tree that *is* growing at a 15 degree angle over a parking lot, and *is* overgrown... but that he really wants gone to get satellite reception **

[00:11:48]

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[00:15:36]

sphery:

there's always the kill-a-tree/plant-a-tree rationalization

[00:15:46]

sphery:

(but, obviously, plant it elsewhere :)

[00:16:15]

iamlindoro__:

I wouldn't mind, I will have sold by the time it grows to annoy me ;)

[00:18:24]

CCFL_Man:

iamlindoro__: ask if you can cut it down or trim it for reception of satellite signals

[00:20:13]

sphery:

Ooooh, yeah... You could cut a hole through it in line with the satellite. That would look really cool. :)

[00:21:16]

CCFL_Man:

sphery: my dish farm faces a 50+ foot ravine with over grown trees, in total i think i cut down atleast 10 trees

[00:21:38]

CCFL_Man:

had to climb down in there

[00:22:49]

sphery:

I just wish I could figure out what's blocking my antenna reception.

[00:23:09]

CCFL_Man:

my 6 foot dish fell all the way down, i had to roll it back up

[00:24:06]

sphery:

down the ravine?

[00:24:13]

CCFL_Man:

yep

[00:24:30]

iamlindoro__:

Where ravine = hill

[00:24:44]

sphery:

heh, that must have been worrisome.

[00:24:55]

** iamlindoro__ tries to think of who to annoy next with a patch for something **

[00:25:03]

CCFL_Man:

it's a very steep ravine

[00:25:07]

sphery:

I was thinking, kind of "inverse hill" (i.e. very deep ditch)

[00:25:16]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, you're smart, who needs a good badgering?

[00:25:50]

CCFL_Man:

sphery: a ravine is like a small valley

[00:26:17]

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[00:26:35]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: I was thinking of writing a patch for MythWeb to make it so the tooltip popups (for recording details, etc) can be killed by clicking (since they tend to get stuck on screen).

[00:26:48]

iamlindoro__:

Yes, but who do *I* badger?

[00:27:04]

iamlindoro__:

I guess I should finish badgering about my current project before finding a new target

[00:27:09]

CCFL_Man:

iamlindoro__: you can badger me for wasting all my money

[00:27:14]

xris:

sphery: I've never seen them get stuck...

[00:27:17]

xris:

sphery: trunk?

[00:27:33]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: Since I don't know anything about PHP and I don't know anything about prototips (which--TTBOMK--is what's used to create the popups), I'd just be googling/hacking, so you could always do it instead of me. :)

[00:27:34]

iamlindoro__:

I've seen what he's describing (in trunk, dunno about fixes)

[00:27:38]

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[00:28:05]

iamlindoro__:

bah, that's no fun, at least I know I can make things kinda-function in cpp

[00:28:54]

sphery:

xris: all it takes is making the page behind the tooltip change without moving the mouse... i.e. go to a listings, then click on some other link, then hit back button to go back to listings, then pull up a tooltip by pointing to a program and hit Alt-<RtArrow>

[00:30:00]

sphery:

There are a lots of other ways to change the page without moving the mouse, and you can even get them stuck by clicking on some link and "resting" your mouse over a proram while the browser is still contacting the server (i.e. before the page has been cleared/changed)

[00:30:39]

sphery:

especially easy to reproduce the latter when using a slow (hotel/public) Internet connection to contact your MythWeb server

[00:31:46]

xris:

sphery: but theoretically the tooltip should go away as soon as you mouse over/out of it again.

[00:31:52]

meshe:

need an X on the tooltip like most hover ads have

[00:32:01]

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[00:32:04]

xris:

would be easier to fix the javascript code to be smarter, though.. and hide it on page browse-away,e tc.

[00:32:39]

meshe:

probably not easier ;) but cleaner

[00:32:42]

xris:

meshe: no, they're not even supposed to be that "permanent".. they should hide themselves at the earliest convenience.

[00:32:43]

sphery:

xris: this is the reason I'm not well suited to writing that patch. :)

[00:33:24]

xris:

sphery: kormoc recently (meaning more recently than I've looked at the code — months ago) updated that show/hide stuff to use a newer js library — it might have a quick fix to "hide all" or something like that

[00:34:04]

sphery:

yeah, I saw his "should help with stuck tips" commit, but I can still get them after it.

[00:34:43]

sphery:

Oh, you're saying that the new stuff may have a hide all, so that's what should be used on page change...

[00:34:56]

sphery:

Now I just have to find out how to detect a page change. :)

[00:35:08]

meshe:

onLoad

[00:35:45]

sphery:

wouldn't I need to detect it before the load (i.e. before we get to the page that doesn't have the JS functions--which I think is the whole reason they get stuck)

[00:35:49]

meshe:

[00:35:54]

** iamlindoro__ wonders if it's worth catching up on Fringe **

[00:35:57]

meshe:

soemthing similar to that

[00:36:05]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: has it been cancelled?

[00:36:06]

iamlindoro__:

Did it become good after the pilot?

[00:36:11]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, not AFAIK

[00:36:21]

sphery:

I'm enjoying it, but it's definitely not great.

[00:36:28]

sphery:

It's no Supernatural or Chuck. :)

[00:36:36]

sphery:

Or Pushing Daisies

[00:36:41]

** iamlindoro__ cries a little **

[00:37:01]

sphery:

Don't worry, there should be at least 3 episodes of Joss's new show to look forward to.

[00:37:03]

iamlindoro__:

don't mention the dead

[00:37:31]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, And 10 more on the inevitable wildly successful DVD release?

[00:37:37]

meshe:

sphery: it very likely could be that the JS function to hide it isn't available on the page that you are browsing to, i believe that there's an event for leaving a page though

[00:37:38]

sphery:

yeah

[00:38:21]

sphery:

meshe: yeah, that's what I think is causing the stuck-ness. I'll have to look up JS events.

[00:39:02]

meshe:

http://w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_events.asp

[00:39:20]

meshe:

http://w3schools.com/jsref/jsref_onunload.asp

[00:39:47]

sphery:

xris: is this the change to the newer JS lib? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/15767 If so, it is prototip (so at least I had a good start :)

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[00:39:56]

sphery:

meshe: thx

[00:40:01]

kormoc:

sphery, It should be just as easy to add a onblur event to the popup, I should be able to do it tonight

[00:40:09]

kormoc:

sphery, aye, we're using prototip

[00:41:03]

xris:

or protip pre commercialization. didn't they go for-pay at some point?

[00:41:08]

kormoc:

Aye, they did

[00:41:31]

kormoc:

and they even contacted folks threatening to revoke their existing LGPL license

[00:41:38]

kormoc:

That was a amusing chain

[00:41:46]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: how's that for badgering someone for a patch? I just mention the idea, then talk about it cluelessly for about 80 lines of the IRC scrollback and kormoc volunteers to write it for me... :)

[00:42:02]

meshe:

is there a way to revoke lgpl?

[00:42:07]

kormoc:

Nopers

[00:42:08]

sphery:

lol, revoke an LGPL license.

[00:42:33]

meshe:

that would sortof defeat the purpost of the licence

[00:42:34]

kormoc:

and the best part, I have patches in the code that I licensed to him as LGPL that he relicensed without my permission

[00:42:44]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, Well, I tend to go the route of writing the patch so astonishingly poorly that it gets written for me too ;)

[00:42:46]

kormoc:

if I wanted to be a pain, I'd sue him :P

[00:43:03]

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[00:43:16]

meshe:

kormoc: keep that in your back pocket in case they become too much of a pain

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[00:46:14]

kormoc:

sphery, Reading back a little, you're saying a popup existed between page loads?

[00:46:17]

meshe:

wow, i can understand going after the commercial market, but why the non-commercial

[00:46:28]

kormoc:

meshe, greed

[00:46:43]

sphery:

kormoc: yeah

[00:47:03]

kormoc:

sphery, erm... that really shouldn't happen... the dom should be fully destroyed...

[00:47:20]

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[00:47:57]

meshe:

i've experienced it too, but i'm not sure what the circumstances were

[00:48:28]

sphery:

OK, wait. Let me create some and verify the procedure. It's been a while since I last found a how-to-reproduce case.

[00:51:27]

kormoc:

Ooohhhh... nasty firefox....

[00:51:46]

kormoc:

the alt+enter one is nasty, but easy to fix

[00:53:13]

kormoc:

firefox won't fire a mouseleave after onblur

[00:53:16]

kormoc:

that's evil of it

[00:54:35]

CaptObviousman:

so the top line in this picture that's all kinda digital and movin around, that's the closed caption information right?

[00:54:52]

meshe:

disliking mtd more and more, crashed my backend last night

[00:56:08]

meshe:

has anyone heard of memory issues with it?

[00:56:12]

meshe:

other than me?

[00:56:52]

sphery:

kormoc: In "Possible Conflicts" on the program details page, it looks like we get both old-style and new-style popups. There's a little yellow popup with time/channel info and a big blue details popup. The yellow one goes away after a few seconds. (I'd do a screenshot, but the little yellow temporary popup is all dark blue/page background in the cap.)

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[00:57:13]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, VBI, and yes, in includes CC

[00:57:22]

iamlindoro__:

er it includes

[00:59:58]

kormoc:

sphery, the old style was updated to be just a wrapper for the new style

[01:00:10]

kormoc:

sphery, meshe, [19387]

[01:01:26]

sphery:

kormoc: perhaps I shouldn't have said, "old style." I just meant we're getting 2 popups, which seems weird as the detailed popup has all the info that's in the little yellow popup.

[01:01:45]

kormoc:

hrm

[01:01:48]

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[01:02:06]

kormoc:

could be a tooltip rather then a popup

[01:02:19]

twb:

12:00 <twb> I'm having trouble tunneling X remotely in order to run "sudo -u mythtv mythtv-setup", as I was instructed to do by the mythtv-backend package.

[01:02:20]

twb:

12:00 <twb> ssh -X fooserv xlogo works.

[01:02:20]

twb:

12:01 <twb> ssh -X fooserv sudo -u mythtv mythtv-setup does not.

[01:02:20]

twb:

12:01 <twb> If I run "ssh -X fooserv", and then try to extract the MIT cookie, I get

[01:02:20]

twb:

12:01 <twb> # xauth extract – $DISPLAY

[01:02:21]

twb:

12:01 <twb> No matches found, authority file "-" not written

[01:02:23]

twb:

12:02 <kormoc> First, you'll need to forward in trusted mode, -Y

[01:02:25]

twb:

12:02 <twb> Er, why would I need that?

[01:02:27]

twb:

12:03 <twb> I don't want to trust intermediary nodes in the network.

[01:02:28]

kormoc:

twb, even in trusted mode, it's still tunneled via ssh, so it's not going to be insecure

[01:02:48]

kormoc:

and second, flooding like that is fairly poor taste

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[01:02:59]

twb:

"Trusted X11 forwardings are not subjected to the X11 SECURITY extension controls."

[01:04:19]

twb:

I was forgetting, -Y means I trust other users (particularly root) on the remote machine.

[01:04:34]

kormoc:

sphery, aye, it's a tooltip, and should be removed

[01:05:42]

twb:

-Y doesn't help.

[01:05:55]

twb:

Though I still don't understand why -Y should be needed.

[01:06:21]

kormoc:

Well, in my experiences, -X won't work, -Y will, never bothered to dig deeper

[01:06:40]

twb:

Everything else I use remote X for, -X works fine — even stupid bloated crap like Firefox.

[01:07:16]

twb:

I'll pester #openssh since even xauth is giving strange output.

[01:07:35]

kormoc:

I'm not going to argue with you. I stated my experience and you can take it or leave it, but you're not going to convince me that what happened didn't happen

[01:08:12]

sphery:

kormoc: OK, I can reliably reproduce it by pointing to a show, right-clicking, and moving the mouse diagonally into the shortcut menu (so that you never leave the bounds of the title) and selecting, i.e. "Open Link in New Tab". http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/MythWeb-s . . . listings.png and http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/MythWeb-s . . . cordings.png show stuck popups.

[01:08:58]

meshe:

sphery: yup, worked for me too

[01:09:15]

kormoc:

Yeah, onblur isn't firing correctly at all, I'll poke at it more at home

[01:09:29]

sphery:

kormoc: once a tooltip is stuck, you can only remove it by pointing to the same link that causes the tooltip and then moving the mouse away from it.

[01:09:44]

kormoc:

until you svn up :P

[01:10:09]

kormoc:

but yeah, I see the problem

[01:10:20]

kormoc:

but I can't get it to persist over page loads

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[01:10:50]

sphery:

yeah, I'm not getting it to persist, anymore.

[01:10:55]

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[01:11:00]

sphery:

may have just done that with (older?) -fixes

[01:12:16]

sphery:

kormoc: Anyway, thanks for the close button. I'll see how things work with that, but based on tonight's testing, that seems like it should be good.

[01:12:43]

xris:

kormoc: there used to be something that closed 'old" popups before opening new ones

[01:12:51]

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[01:15:03]

kormoc:

xris, I thought so too, but it's not there

[01:17:16]

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[01:18:23]

sphery:

twb: xauth gives strange output when you use the wrong syntax... :) $DISPLAY will be something like <hostname>:10.0 and xauth will contain stuff like, "<hostname>/unix:10" , so there will be no matches found.

[01:18:32]

sphery:

twb: use "xauth list" to see stuff

[01:18:44]

twb:

sphery: thanks

[01:19:25]

sphery:

twb: also, are you running on one of the (broken) distros that run mythbackend or mythfrontend as root?

[01:19:28]

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[01:19:36]

twb:

I'm using Ubuntu 8.04

[01:19:39]

sphery:

twb: if not, there's /no/ reason to run mythtv-setup using sudo

[01:19:52]

twb:

I'm using sudo to become the mythtv user

[01:19:53]

sphery:

so what user runs mythbackend? mythfrontend?

[01:20:03]

sphery:

ssh -l mythtv -Y <hostname>

[01:20:10]

twb:

mythtv should not be able to log in.

[01:22:21]

sphery:

then you need to fix sudo to properly pass the DISPLAY, but since you're unwilling to use ssh -Y, you probably can't make it work (as that's what the X11 SECURITY extension is meant to protect you from)

[01:23:05]

twb:

sphery: well, I'm willing to use -Y in this instance because I remember what it protects against, and I have dominion over this host.

[01:23:24]

twb:

(I leave -Y off by default because I don't trust other hosts I ssh into.)

[01:24:16]

twb:

I can do the xauth dance, that's OK. The key was realizing that $DISPLAY didn't match the entry in the xauth database.

[01:24:52]

sphery:

with -Y, you should be able to make it work by extracting the token and writing it into the XAuthority file used by mythtv user and specifying the DISPLAY for the mythtv user (if sudo doesn't pass it)--which means you completely lose all benefit of ssh X forwarding save the encryption

[01:25:27]

sphery:

(which, btw, you could easily get without the ssh X forwarding by simply setting up an ssh port forward)

[01:25:34]

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[01:26:18]

twb:

Debian's Xorg has -nolisten tcp by default, and ICBF changing it.

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[01:28:31]

twb:

Hmm, the mythtv user's default home is in /home.

[01:28:42]

sphery:

not /home/mythtv?

[01:28:43]

twb:

That seems odd for a daemon user.

[01:29:01]

twb:

sphery: yes, ~mythtv is /home/mythtv.

[01:29:01]

sphery:

definitely seems broken, as there shouldn't be anything but dirs in /home

[01:29:25]

twb:

sphery: I mean, I would have expected /var/lib/mythtv

[01:29:29]

sphery:

IMHO, mythtv user is not a daemon user, since it runs GUI programs (mythfrontend), but

[01:29:45]

twb:

I probably don't understand what the mythtv user is for.

[01:30:07]

sphery:

actually, /srv/mythtv would be better, since /var is (properly) used only for ephemeral data (but Debian may not have caught up, yet)

[01:30:48]

twb:

Agreed.

[01:31:58]

sphery:

MythTV treats the user running mythtv as a normal user, and expects a writable home directory with (at least) a writable $HOME/.mythtv directory. You could put that anywhere, but would have to specify an appropriate HOME environment variable before using any mythtv program.

[01:32:16]

twb:

Right, I'm just bitching about the default settings

[01:32:51]

twb:

FWIW, I wouldn't categorize mail spools as "ephemeral", though they're in rotation: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#THEVARHIERARCHY

[01:33:30]

twb:

The /var/lib tree is "variable state information".

[01:35:34]

twb:

Hmm, even with xauth dancing *and* -Y it doesn't like me

[01:35:39]

twb:

$ ssh -Y trimserv3 'xauth extract – trimserver/unix:10 | sudo -u mythtv xauth -f ~mythtv/.Xauthority merge – && sudo -u mythtv xlogo'

[01:35:39]

twb:

Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding.

[01:35:52]

twb:

Where "trimserver/unix:10" I got from xauth list

[01:36:57]

twb:

Oh, maybe sudo -u doesn't pass $DISPLAY.

[01:37:17]

twb:

Yep, that was a problem.

[01:37:29]

twb:

Whoops, no it wasn't; I can't read.

[01:38:18]

twb:

Ah, I am a silly goose. I needed -H, too.

[01:42:19]

twb:

Oh, fuck me sideways. My entire X session froze up because the stupid password prompt thing was trying to "grey out" all my other windows and take an exclusive lock.

[01:42:32]

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[01:42:50]

twb:

It would be nice if you supported dialog or whiptail in addition to zenity and whatever is in kdebase-bin :-/

[01:43:39]

twb:

Anyways, it wanted "my current login password"... which will be exciting to find, since neither root not mythtv have login passwords — I do everything via ssh keys.

[01:45:54]

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[01:46:25]

sphery:

twb: 1st watch language, please and 2nd, you probably need to use "mythtv-setup -O ThemePainter=qt" when using X forwarding

[01:46:50]

sphery:

it's probably OpenGL that's "locking up your entire X session"

[01:47:29]

twb:

It's just that zenity is trying to "helpfully" paint a transparent grey layer over all the other windows

[01:47:49]

sphery:

and Myth /never/ needs the login password for the mythtv or the root user (on my Myth systems, no one--not even I--knows the mythtv and root user login passwords and they're changed on a daily basis)

[01:47:49]

twb:

And the line between my desktop and the server is about 50kB/s, without the ssh overhead.

[01:48:23]

twb:

sphery: why wouldn't you just disable the passwords?

[01:48:42]

sphery:

because I want to be able to login as mythtv

[01:48:53]

sphery:

i.e. ssh -l mythtv or ksu mythtv -a -l

[01:49:02]

twb:

sphery: you do that with ssh keys

[01:49:06]

sphery:

kerberos

[01:49:18]

twb:

Ah, fair enough.

[01:49:23]

sphery:

the ssh -l could be done with ssh keys, though

[01:49:40]

sphery:

and could use sudo (if I liked it :) instead of ksu

[01:49:52]

twb:

Nobody likes sudo

[01:50:14]

sphery:

but the ssh -l definitely requires a user with a valid password

[01:50:46]

twb:

It doesn't here.

[01:50:54]

sphery:

Oh, and I should mention that Myth does not use zenity... If zenity is in use, it's because of some Debian addition

[01:51:00]

twb:

Here, root has no password, but it happily lets me in with an ssh key.

[01:51:17]

twb:

sphery: it might have been Qt, I can't really tell

[01:51:21]

sphery:

then why can't use use ssh -l mythtv -Y?

[01:51:29]

twb:

sphery: I don't know.

[01:51:34]

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[01:51:52]

twb:

sphery: I assume you added your pub key to ~mythtv/.ssh/authorized_keys and added mythtv to AllowedUsers in ssh_config

[01:51:55]

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[01:51:57]

twb:

*sshd_config

[01:52:02]

sphery:

it's possible that sshd's PermitRootLogin allows root login without a valid password for root

[01:52:15]

twb:

sphery: I suppose that's possible.

[01:52:26]

sphery:

I disable PermitRootLogin, so I don't know

[01:52:30]

twb:

I don't think I've ever tried it with a non-root-user

[01:54:09]

sphery:

Yeah, when I passwd -l mythtv, I can't do ssh -l mythtv <hostname>

[01:54:45]

sphery:

works fine with a valid (though unknown) passwd

[01:55:12]

iamlindoro__:

One episode of Heroes down... ugh, six to go

[01:56:38]

sphery:

any gentoo users who know where I could find the ebuild for mysql (need to see if a user is breaking his mysql)

[01:57:14]

twb:

OK, the popup prompt said "Please enter your current login password top stop mythtv-backend", even though I had done /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend stop just before.

[01:57:46]

twb:

I tried the database password in /etc/mythtv/mythtv.txt just in case the prompt was wrong, but it didn't work.

[01:58:04]

twb:

As you said mythtv never needs a login password, I assume this is Ubuntu's fault.

[01:58:17]

sphery:

that's some kind of sudo or gtk-keys or ... thing

[01:58:30]

twb:

(Note: I'm still just trying to run mythtv-setup)

[01:58:35]

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[01:58:52]

twb:

sphery: but the mythtv user does not have sudo privileges!

[01:59:01]

sphery:

why not break your pipeling down into individual steps and verify the reuslts of each

[01:59:07]

sphery:

pipeline

[01:59:13]

twb:

sphery: I did that.

[01:59:35]

twb:

sphery: the problem is in mythtv-setup somewhere, because if I replace that with "xlogo" then everything works.

[01:59:45]

sphery:

gnome-sudo is the thing I was thinking of

[01:59:58]

sphery:

probably an equivalent for kde

[02:00:17]

npm:

I'm tring to get mythtv running on fedora 10... It's running, except for the Adaptec AVC-3610 dual channel USB tv and remote

[02:00:37]

twb:

I think the problem is that mythtv-setup is running "gksudo /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend stop" and it shouldn't be, because 1) I already stopped it; and 2) mythtv has no sudo privileges.

[02:00:43]

sphery:

I know on Ubuntu, there's mythtv-setup and mythtv-setup.real where the "real" one is the one from Myth and the other is some *buntu thing

[02:00:47]

npm:

where can one find drivers for it? all the suggestions I saw on the net didn't pan out

[02:00:55]

twb:

sphery: oh cool, I'll try the .real one

[02:01:35]

twb:

sphery: yep, gksu is run by Ubuntu's retarded wrapper

[02:01:40]

iamlindoro__:

npm, Are you sure your device has linux support?

[02:01:55]

iamlindoro__:

As I'm fairly certain it doesn't

[02:02:07]

twb:

Hooray, that looks more like Qt!

[02:03:44]

npm:

i've seen mention of it working in fedora 3

[02:04:22]

iamlindoro__:

npm, Let's see that mention. more or less, if it ain't at linuxtv.org (and it's not) then it won't be working in linux

[02:04:40]

twb:

OK, another bug report: mythtv-setup requires a screen bigger than my Eee PC's 800x480 pixels — the "Next" and "Cancel" buttons were offscreen. I also had to restart mythtv-setup, because it didn't understand my attempt to resize the window (after attaching an offboard CRT).

[02:04:53]

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[02:06:13]

npm:

but uthe avc-3619 is mostly asked for but there's no answers: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=971237

[02:06:24]

npm:

s/3619/3610

[02:06:51]

iamlindoro__:

npm, Umm... so... once again, what is it that makes you think it has linux support?

[02:07:39]

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[02:08:21]

npm:

it might not, but i was hoping it does

[02:08:29]

iamlindoro__:

It doesn't.

[02:08:38]

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[02:09:56]

sphery:

So, 1 useless result for "site:sources.gentoo.org mysql", huh, Google? Sure looks that way: http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-db/mysql/ . Guess Gentoo is prohibiting Google's indexing their server. As a wise man on the -dev list said, today, "gotta love gentoo".

[02:10:00]

npm:

in the past, people got it working with driver dvb-dibusb

[02:10:30]

iamlindoro__:

npm, Not a chance. You do *not* get hardware encoding analog cards working with DVB drivers, sorry

[02:11:11]

iamlindoro__:

And I'd like to see a mention where people say they did

[02:11:32]

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[02:13:04]

npm:

i was trying to find it again.

[02:13:19]

npm:

but it looks like this is barking up a wrong tree

[02:13:30]

npm:

so what's a good cheap replacement for ti?

[02:13:31]

npm:

it

[02:14:06]

iamlindoro__:

You acn have good, and you can have cheap, but not both. If you want a dual tuner hardware encoding analog card your only choice in linux is the PVR 500

[02:14:24]

iamlindoro__:

which you can likely still pick up second hand

[02:14:56]

wagnerrp:

i thought there were a couple other (non-hauppauge) dual tuner ivtv cards

[02:15:40]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, this avermedia made some poor man's 500 like thing for a bit too, you're right

[02:15:45]

twb:

sphery: OK, so I got to the point where there is a watercolour picture of a can opener and a bunch of options "1. General" through "6. Storage Directories".

[02:15:46]

iamlindoro__:

er think

[02:16:12]

twb:

sphery: this is probably enough that I can handball it to someone who knows about using mythtv, thanks for your help.

[02:16:25]

sphery:

twb: yeah, that's mythtv-setup

[02:16:31]

sphery:

good luck

[02:19:20]

sphery:

kormoc: Since you use gentoo, I was wondering if you'd know off the top of your head whether the use flags in http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008 . . . /241816.html would somehow bork UTF-8 in mysql (as I can't find any useful info in the ebuild--probably due to my limited understanding of ebuilds).

[02:19:41]

npm:

http://www.freelists.org/post/linux-avc2210k/ . . . l-TV-Tuner,4 mentions the chipsets used: > CX23416–12. > CX25840–23 > CX25840–23 > 53L32AKZ (Audio ADC?)

[02:19:48]

sphery:

kormoc: or, perhaps bork latin1 (i.e. that -latin1)

[02:20:06]

twb:

Does Gentoo use UTF-8 by default for everything?

[02:20:11]

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[02:20:11]

iamlindoro__:

npm, A list of chips used does not a driver make...

[02:20:32]

npm:

and this is a driver ftp://81.86.3.90/avc2210k/

[02:20:37]

sphery:

twb: regardless, a system that supports MythTV /must/ include a MySQL database that supports latin1

[02:20:44]

iamlindoro__:

npm, that is *not* a driver for your device

[02:20:56]

iamlindoro__:

it is a driver for a *ship* in your device

[02:20:58]

iamlindoro__:

er chip

[02:21:03]

npm:

it claims i also need ftp://81.86.3.90/multiload/\

[02:22:01]

npm:

so what is 'multiload'

[02:22:19]

iamlindoro__:

npm, I'm going to try this once... that thread discusses the building blocks to build a driver for your device. From grepping the source, nothing was ever done about it. If you'd like to argue with the driver authors themselves, I suggest you do it in #v4l. Your device *has no driver in linux*

[02:22:43]

npm:

ok

[02:23:05]

npm:

if i have to build my own driver i can...

[02:23:05]

sphery:

So, after spending about 5 hours of my time trying to debug an upgrade failure a user gets--and blames MythTV for--I'm 99.999999% positive that it's another case of a Gentoo user "optimizing" his system such that it does /not/ work properly. (In this case, I'm pretty sure -latin1 says do /not/ include latin1 support in the database.)

[02:23:29]

iamlindoro__:

npm, if you mean write the code, then I'm sure that would be appreciated. But it is *not* just a matter of compiling.

[02:23:53]

wagnerrp:

sphery: correct, on gentoo a '-' use flag means disable

[02:24:00]

iamlindoro__:

You can use some existing work for parts of the device, but you would need to write support for the unsupported chips and write the glue code too.

[02:24:21]

sphery:

npm: haven't followed the conversation, but if all you need is an dual-tuner analog encoder card, I think getting a 2nd-hand PVR-500 would be a /lot/ cheaper than writing a new driver for some other card. (i.e. $50 or so)

[02:24:29]

npm:

oh that's a good question... inoticed mysql db was setup with a funky ass encoding: gnuvelle-ROOT-5-~/bin> cat /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/db.opt

[02:24:29]

npm:

default-character-set=latin1

[02:24:29]

npm:

default-collation=latin1_swedish_ci

[02:24:57]

sphery:

wagnerrp: Thanks for the confirmation... I'll reply back to the list.

[02:25:02]

iamlindoro__:

Nothing funky about that, that's the standard encoding for DBs in 21 and before

[02:25:18]

wagnerrp:

anyone know what package contains 'libdl.a'?

[02:25:20]

npm:

i wasn't planning on writing a driver... but i could get one running if i had to... but buying another PVR ain't happening now so i'll stick with media center

[02:25:20]

twb:

npm: that's not funky-ass

[02:25:37]

npm:

so that's "normal"... what about the swedish collation thing?

[02:25:49]

twb:

npm: that's just saying you're sorting as if you are a Swede

[02:25:57]

twb:

npm: e.g. Ã¤ before a or whatever

[02:26:00]

twb:

collate = sort

[02:26:03]

iamlindoro__:

also normal

[02:26:23]

twb:

Collation is not only encoding-specific, but also language-specific.

[02:26:38]

twb:

In some cases (for example, Korean), there are even multiple competing sorting orders.

[02:26:51]

npm:

so what happens if i try to get it working on a database where 'default-character-set=utf8' set in /my.cnf

[02:26:51]

npm:

'

[02:27:19]

twb:

I don't know, ask #mysql?

[02:27:31]

npm:

will it still honor the local setting in /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg/db.opt

[02:27:31]

iamlindoro__:

as long as you don't change the encoding of the mythconverg DB, you're fine

[02:27:39]

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[02:27:40]

npm:

i guess i'll find out....

[02:27:47]

iamlindoro__:

but do NOT under any circumstances go changing mythconverg to utf if you value your data

[02:27:59]

npm:

i have no data... since i can't use it

[02:28:11]

iamlindoro__:

and your ability to upgrade to the next release of myth, for that matter

[02:28:32]

npm:

but i wanted to use it... or at least look at how it does some stuff, like scanning for commercials in video files, etc.

[02:28:33]

iamlindoro__:

OK, then it really doesn't matter what myth thinks about your DB changes, as you don't intend to use it, does it?

[02:28:52]

npm:

well i'm not buying any hardware now

[02:29:16]

iamlindoro__:

I don't know what to tell you-- if you want to use myth, don't change the mythconverg DB encodings. If you don't, then do what you want.

[02:29:22]

npm:

that's all. i figurted with a widely used USB tv tuner (rebranded by Phillips, HP, and every other laptop manufacter) would work

[02:29:46]

iamlindoro__:

That tuner is *not* widely used

[02:29:56]

npm:

i was just asking about them., since i want to eventually use it on a web-server with default utf8

[02:30:11]

npm:

then why so many people asking for it ?

[02:30:14]

npm:

on the net?

[02:30:31]

iamlindoro__:

A thread from 2006 and three people on ubuntu forums is a lot?

[02:31:08]

npm:

every HP laptop sold in the past few years until they started using a single-channel USB tuner ... is a lot

[02:31:47]

iamlindoro__:

Strange how my employer is all HP laptops and I've never come across one, then

[02:32:08]

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[02:32:12]

npm:

are they "media center PC" laptops??

[02:32:22]

npm:

or vista ultimate

[02:32:30]

iamlindoro__:

npm, So now it's not every hp laptop sold, now is it?

[02:32:52]

npm:

nope... they got rid of their dual-channel PVR's whicbh is lame

[02:32:58]

iamlindoro__:

and for that matter, a fair number of them *were* originally MCE laptops

[02:33:25]

iamlindoro__:

anyway, it's not supported in linux, it's not widely used, and it's officially OT for this channel. If you want to talk to someone about a driver, take it to #v4l

[02:33:54]

npm:

ok thanks

[02:34:20]

npm:

so are there any IPTV channels i can hook mythv on to play with it?

[02:34:44]

npm:

the one in the f10 default didn't work, gave "access denied" or somesuch

[02:35:05]

iamlindoro__:

IPTV doesn't mean "broadcast on the internet"

[02:35:17]

npm:

whazzitmean?

[02:35:23]

sphery:

npm: if you have support for utf8 /and/ latin1 in your mysql server, Myth will work fine. Assuming you use the proper procedures to create the database, it will create the database and the database schema with all the proper character sets (latin1) and encoding (latin1_swedish_ci). (Then, when you upgrade to 0.22, it will change to utf8 and utf8_general_ci.)

[02:35:37]

iamlindoro__:

IPTV means it's delivered over IP on a private provider network.

[02:36:02]

sphery:

npm: If you don't create the database properly, it will probably get fixed by the defensive code in mythtv that's there because of clueless users who have done stupid things in the past.

[02:36:15]

sphery:

but that's not guaranteed to work :)

[02:36:25]

iamlindoro__:

fixing stupid DB issues is sphery's full time job

[02:36:32]

iamlindoro__:

at least, stupid myth DB issues

[02:36:44]

npm:

sphery: — thanks... i have the db created fine now... and it'll work if i ever get the commercial-scanning code working on my utf8 webserver db

[02:36:52]

sphery:

npm: in the case I've been wasting my time diagnosing, the problem is that the user was using a MySQL server without latin1 character support.

[02:37:24]

npm:

oh... never heard of that

[02:37:25]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, definitely only /myth/ DB issues... I leave real database admin to real DBA's. :)

[02:38:15]

npm:

i'm just happy for an open Db format for this... beats the crap i had to put up with at DIRECTV working on their lamo PVR

[02:40:09]

npm:

(i am not to blame for their abominations... in fact i was the guy that made it go from crashing every 30 seconds to crashing every 30 minutes!)

[02:41:53]

sphery:

wagnerrp: libdl.a (and it's shared-object cousin, libdl.so.2) comes from glibc (in case you haven't found it by now--I just noticed your question :)

[02:43:26]

wagnerrp:

yeah, apparently it just doesnt exist in freebsd, all of its purpose is consumed by libc

[02:45:04]

** iamlindoro__ runs to Anduin's house, breaks a pane of glass, lets himself in, types "svn commit" and runs away giggling **

[02:45:47]

** iamlindoro__ runs back in, types "refs #5920, Iamlindoro is the awesomes" **

[02:46:59]

Anduin:

iamlindoro__: maybe for really tonight

[02:47:04]

LanUser:

Can folks in North America pickup DVB signals? Or is it limited to the countries/regions of origin?

[02:47:26]

iamlindoro__:

Anduin, I've fallen for your pack of lie for the last time! ;)

[02:47:50]

iamlindoro__:

s/lie/lies/

[02:48:46]

iamlindoro__:

LanUser, in terms of freely available, DVB-S exists in the US, but is largely crap religious programming

[02:49:07]

LanUser:

rats, I'd love to pickup BBC American through the air

[02:49:22]

iamlindoro__:

LanUser, but in general the coutries picking up sats pick up *their* sats as the cone of broadcast only covers them

[02:49:26]

Anduin:

iamlindoro__: If it makes you feel better I'm terrible at all time estimates it isn't just you.

[02:49:52]

iamlindoro__:

Oh Anduin, you know I just can't quit you

[02:53:16]

jpabq:

iamlindoro__, will the youtube plugin allow someone to listen to pandora? I ask, because pandora seems to use flash for the audio....

[02:53:51]

iamlindoro__:

jpabq, doubtful without major modifications-- as it is it's downloading the youtube .mp4s to play them

[02:54:05]

jpabq:

okay. Just curious.

[02:54:08]

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[03:23:07]

** sphery considers removing latin1 support from his mysql so he can give an exact description of why not having it breaks your db **

[03:27:20]

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[03:33:06]

sphery:

hmmm... Not as easy as just removing the charset from /usr/share/mysql/charsets/Index.xml , so not worth the effort.

[03:33:22]

iamlindoro__:

anyone who worked that hard to break their system deserves it

[03:34:50]

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[03:34:54]

sphery:

Yeah, just don't like that I don't know exactly how it breaks.

[03:37:28]

iamlindoro__:

t'heck with 'em

[03:38:56]

sphery:

I'm taking the easy way out... Saying it "probably" used utf8 charset (possibly with a case-sensitive collation) and MySQL did conversions it shouldn't have so data got corrupted.

[03:39:03]

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[03:39:05]

sphery:

close enough for non-government work

[03:40:17]

sphery:

in all my learning about character sets, though, I've found that datadirect data is improperly inserted into -fixes databases... Not worth the effort to fix, though, since it's correct in trunk as a side-effect of the charset conversion.

[03:41:04]

** iamlindoro__ votes for #6010 to be "invalid as usual" **

[03:41:17]

iamlindoro__:

Even though I'm pretty sure I don't get to cast votes

[03:41:19]

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[03:41:24]

sphery:

I had always assumed it was due to my system not having good support for other charsets (fonts, etc.), but we're actually double converting titles (and possibly other listings data) from datadirect.

[03:41:44]

Der_Thomas:

Hey, anyone know if there is a way to transcode every recording done by a certain tuner?

[03:41:45]

iamlindoro__:

and 6009 too

[03:41:47]

sphery:

if #6010 is the one I think it is, I agree

[03:42:01]

Der_Thomas:

I want to transcode all of the recordings done by my HD tuner

[03:42:08]

sphery:

yeah, "not a supported feature"

[03:42:14]

Der_Thomas:

but i don;t know how to make that happen...

[03:42:17]

sphery:

Der_Thomas: why?

[03:42:30]

kdubya:

can i get myth to do the equivialent of '-vf pp=al' in mplayer?

[03:42:39]

Der_Thomas:

well I have an SD TV, but like the HD tuner cuz the signal is nice and clean

[03:42:54]

Der_Thomas:

my sd signal had lots of interference

[03:43:05]

sphery:

if to save space, may I suggest that $129.99 for a 1.5TB HDD (or $99.99 for a good-quality 1TB HDD) kind of makes transcoding a waste.

[03:43:06]

Der_Thomas:

and I want to save HD space

[03:43:28]

sphery:

I'd say record in HDTV and play back the HDTV on your SDTV. :)

[03:43:55]

kdubya:

obviously the correct answer is to buy an HDTV

[03:44:17]

Der_Thomas:

Well I'm saving up for a new TV, so in the mean time... I'd like to transcode HD

[03:44:27]

sphery:

Anyway, you can set it up to automatically transcode everything, but I don't know how to as buying HDD's was a lot cheaper than spending my time learning how to set it up to transcode. :)

[03:44:33]

kdubya:

credit cards man

[03:44:36]

kdubya:

they are awesome

[03:44:40]

Der_Thomas:

Is there a way to transcode everything for the hd tuner

[03:44:52]

sphery:

really, the TV is the last thing you need to upgrade for HDTV

[03:44:57]

sphery:

(if using Myth)

[03:45:18]

iamlindoro__:

Der_Thomas, I've already told you there is, and explained it the last time you were in. HAve you read the wikia rticles on transcoding?

[03:45:23]

sphery:

you can use the same TV and Myth will scale the HDTV down to fit X (i.e. at 1024x768 or whatever)

[03:46:06]

Der_Thomas:

iamlindoro__, think that you might have me confused with someone else. This is the 1st time I've asked the question

[03:47:03]

Der_Thomas:

I don't want to transcode every recording, just the recordings from that tuner, I also have a PVR-150 for SD

[03:47:20]

GreyFoxx:

Der_Thomas: You could do a custom job, then add a jobqueue entry for the show to trigger a transcode if he chanid is in the range of your HD tuner

[03:47:26]

Der_Thomas:

I'll re-read the article on transcoding, maybe I've missed something

[03:47:52]

Der_Thomas:

GreyFoxx, Ahh good idea

[03:48:42]

iamlindoro__:

Der_Thomas, You are absolutely right, checked the logs. My mistake. Weird. Someone this very day asked the same question in almost the exact same way, weird. Apologies

[03:48:51]

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[03:48:52]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: pretty sure I figured out how to break my DB server... edit Index.xml as described, then drop /all/ databases (including mysql and information_schema), then run mysql_install_db to install the now-not-including-latin1 charsets, etc.

[03:49:06]

Der_Thomas:

iamlindoro__, no prob

[03:49:30]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, Well then it clearly could happen to ANYONE

[03:49:32]

iamlindoro__:

;)

[03:49:35]

sphery:

but, not going to do it unless someone says I'm wrong about Myth-pre-DBSchemaVer-1215 requiring latin1

[03:49:41]

sphery:

lol

[03:50:11]

sphery:

yeah, I have a feeling it will only happen to Gentoo over-optimizers/users who use -latin1

[03:50:30]

sphery:

(as that's a much easier way of making a MySQL server without latin1 support)

[03:51:02]

iamlindoro__:

"What does MythTV know about managing a database anyway? I'll just prune this... hmm, don't need that table... oh, this character set is ALL wrong..."

[03:51:18]

iamlindoro__:

And people wonder why we're always screaming about NOT editing the DB directly

[03:51:46]

sphery:

well, obviously, the idiots shouldn't do it, but I != idiot

[03:52:04]

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[03:52:06]

** iamlindoro__ goes to Newegg, sets his technical level to ZOMG HIGH **

[03:52:34]

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[03:52:36]

sphery:

Unfortunately, it seems that "I != idiot" evaluates to true for all idiots, too.

[03:53:26]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: Have you found any graphics cards that aren't 64-bit? That's the one thing I'm worried about since I still have some 32-bit systems.

[03:53:58]

iamlindoro__:

I'm pretty sure I know a guy in Canada with some legacy equipment

[03:54:46]

sphery:

heh

[03:54:52]

wagnerrp:

i thought graphics cards were designed for 32-bit math

[03:54:55]

sphery:

I'd do a smiley emoticon, but I don't want to pay Oleg Teterin $10K for the privilege.

[03:55:22]

sphery:

wagnerrp: was a jab about a user comment on newegg

[03:55:22]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, We're joking about a "extemely high" tech level comment from newegg

[03:55:22]

wagnerrp:

meaning DX and OGL all run off single precision math

[03:55:42]

iamlindoro__:

"Cons: Card is 64 bit, but I can live with it"

[03:56:08]

wagnerrp:

so theyre just seeing the memory bus width

[03:56:31]

iamlindoro__:

The original laugh about it was how nonsensical the "con" was

[03:56:37]

wagnerrp:

sphery: didnt you know, forrest gump had prior art!

[03:57:32]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, but I'll let him fight the battle in court as I'd rather spend my time/money elsewhere (i.e. spend time diagnosing non-bugs in Myth caused by user configuration issues)

[03:58:11]

sphery:

the best part about the whole comment was that he listed it as a con...

[03:58:12]

iamlindoro__:

"Other Russian Internet entrepreneurs reacted to the effort predictably: >:("

[03:58:13]

iamlindoro__:

hahah

[03:58:20]

sphery:

lol

[04:00:31]

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[04:01:04]

iamlindoro__:

kdubya, In response to your question wayyyyyyyy up there, no, I don't think so-- The filters box still exists in playback profiles, but I will honestly admit I *never* really knew much about it, and can't promise it even works any more, let alone contain a filter for automatic brightness and contrast

[04:01:25]

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[04:01:29]

k-man:

hello

[04:01:43]

k-man:

do you think you could hack this device to put linux and mythtv on it? http://www.zazz.com.au/index.php

[04:01:56]

iamlindoro__:

In fact it may be one of the few places where myth has slid backwards a bit, mostly from neglect

[04:02:09]

iamlindoro__:

here's what you used to be able to do: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Filter_Wizard

[04:02:44]

iamlindoro__:

k-man, As it's very likely similar to all the other NMT and popcornhour type devices, the answer is most likely not

[04:02:48]

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[04:03:29]

sphery:

kdubya: see http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-10.html#ss10.4 for the available filters and--as mentioned by iamlindoro__ --configure them in your playback profiles

[04:03:38]

iamlindoro__:

as they use some open source stuff interfaced with closed source interfaces to dedicated hardware decoders. At best you might get a console or a little framebuffer going on them, but not full myth, and certainly not with HD support

[04:03:51]

DylanC:

Question: a little over a year ago, I was running a KnoppMyth box when I moved to an apartment where my roomate had a Dish setup with DVR, so I shelved my Knoppmyth machine. Now, I no longer have access to a commercial DVR and will be setting up a Myth box on a basic cable setup. Is Knoppmyth still the most actively developed/mature distro? I would like to use a single dedicated OS/MythTV package. I would rather not install My

[04:04:58]

iamlindoro__:

DylanC, A loaded question--- mythbuntu is probably most popular right now, but all three major myth distros are good

[04:05:24]

DylanC:

lindoro: what is the third distro?

[04:05:30]

wagnerrp:

mythdora

[04:05:36]

iamlindoro__:

mythdora

[04:06:18]

k-man:

iamlindoro__: ok, thanks

[04:06:45]

DylanC:

where is the most active wiki/forum for mythbuntu?

[04:06:46]

k-man:

iamlindoro__: its a shame as those kinds of devices would be cool for a front end

[04:07:54]

iamlindoro__:

k-man, similarly sized devices are now possible with nvidia's VDPAU hardware acceleration of video. mini-itx (Apple TV sized) motherboards are coming with compatible graphics

[04:08:02]

iamlindoro__:

DylanC, presumably mythbuntu.org

[04:08:12]

** CaptObviousman doesn't recognize the "dora" bit from mythdora **

[04:08:16]

CaptObviousman:

what's its upstream?

[04:08:23]

iamlindoro__:

fedora

[04:08:27]

CaptObviousman:

oh ... duh

[04:08:31]

k-man:

iamlindoro__: ah, thats good to hear

[04:08:43]

CaptObviousman:

iamlindoro__: I think your presence makes me stupid

[04:08:47]

k-man:

im sick of the hulking great monster I have whinning away in my lounge room

[04:09:01]

CaptObviousman:

normally I'm quite articulate, intelligent, and witty

[04:09:29]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i have a big hulking monster myself, i just havent bothered replacing it yet

[04:09:31]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, You haven't proven especially stupid in here, you're fine ;)

[04:09:57]

wagnerrp:

although its quiet, so it hasnt been much of a problem

[04:10:06]

DylanC:

Thanks for the help folks...by the way, does anyone know if the alt.video.ptv.mythtv newsgroup still around?

[04:10:08]

iamlindoro__:

This little bit of shiny ought to make a nice near-silent frontend: http://img1.abload.de/img/pegatronamh.jpg

[04:10:42]

wagnerrp:

tegatron?

[04:10:49]

iamlindoro__:

Put a low-end Core 2 Duo on it, with heatsink only, boot from network of a small CF drive, offload video to the GPU, bam, done, no moving parts

[04:11:05]

iamlindoro__:

Pegatron, they're a part of Asus

[04:11:44]

iamlindoro__:

It's a 9300 IGP mini itx board-- it actually was supposed to be out by now but got delayed

[04:12:03]

** sphery wonders if -latin1 is a standard/default use flag for mysql on Gentoo systems **

[04:12:34]

wagnerrp:

well processor plus video plus memory, youre not going to get that under 60W TDP

[04:12:52]

wagnerrp:

plus the power supply... i doubt you could get that completely fanless unless you had a custom heatsink case

[04:13:10]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, many/most mini ITX boxes have external passive bricks

[04:13:56]

** iamlindoro__ reads spehry's latest novel **

[04:14:00]

iamlindoro__:

sphery's

[04:14:05]

wagnerrp:

and they run off POS VIA chips that push 5W, rather than low power C2s at 35W

[04:14:22]

sphery:

k-man: I have the world's ugliest Myth frontend. It's also huge and loud. However, it's not a problem thanks to a drill and the room on the other side of the wall from the TV. :)

[04:15:11]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: They never start out as novels... Generally, I'm aiming for a reader's digest short story, but they keep growing.

[04:15:31]

CaptObviousman:

PEGATRON

[04:15:42]

CaptObviousman:

IT COMES TO POSSESS YOUR SOOOOOOUUUULLLLL

[04:15:47]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, There are lots of 120–150W PSUs with external power brick for mini itx, that's more than adequate for this board

[04:16:08]

k-man:

sphery: yeah, not a bad idea :)

[04:16:10]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro__: i was talking about the internal power consumption

[04:16:19]

iamlindoro__:

Of course, there's always the Atom + PCI option, that's even available now

[04:16:21]

k-man:

sphery: id like to move mine to the attic at some point

[04:16:29]

wagnerrp:

even if you pull the power brick out, you still have considerable power consumption inside a small box

[04:16:53]

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[04:17:04]

sphery:

k-man: the attic would be great for space, but I worried about the heat

[04:17:17]

wagnerrp:

sure, its half what the PS3 or XB360 consume, but those are custom designed chassis for their thermal loads

[04:17:22]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, So what is it you're worried aout, heat dissipation?

[04:17:35]

k-man:

sphery: yeah, that can be a problem howerver ours is insulated

[04:17:37]

wagnerrp:

correct

[04:17:48]

k-man:

it gets a little warm up there but its never to obad

[04:17:51]

k-man:

too bad

[04:18:25]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, So put a C2 Mobile in it, and a decent heatsink-- I don't doubt for a second that it's possible to go totally passive with a little effort

[04:18:28]

sphery:

wow... janneg isn't in #mythtv, so I can't (yet) tell him I think I know why that user (and possible those on #5070) had issues

[04:18:43]

iamlindoro__:

wait wait... janneg went to sleep?

[04:19:06]

sphery:

yeah, what's up with that?

[04:19:06]

iamlindoro__:

Just be the quarterly appointment with his bed

[04:19:06]

iamlindoro__:

er Must be

[04:19:44]

iamlindoro__:

He'll get four hours and be up until March

[04:20:11]

wagnerrp:

well back to trying to get zoneminder working....

[04:20:46]

iamlindoro__:

Where's dibblah when you need tickets mercilessly closed :)

[04:21:16]

npm:

"sphery wonders if -latin1 is a standard/default use flag for mysql on Gentoo systems" — very possible. check if /etc/my.cnf contains ''default-character-set=utf8''

[04:24:35]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, I would think Cardoe would have long since caught that kind of thing, no? We've got enough Gentoo users that it should have come up long ago

[04:24:50]

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[04:25:24]

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[04:25:36]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: that's likely the kind of bug that you wouldn't necessarily notice too much--until a character set conversion... :)

[04:26:13]

iamlindoro__:

gah, none of the usual suspects are here to weigh in, beandog, cardoe, etc.

[04:26:26]

iamlindoro__:

blast you tab autocomplete, you've failed me

[04:26:34]

sphery:

npm: does the use flag -latin1 only change the default charset in use or does it compile without latin1 support?

[04:26:43]

iamlindoro__:

wagnerrp, you run gentoo, don't you? Care to weigh in?

[04:26:49]

sphery:

my.cnf specifies the default charset in use

[04:27:03]

wagnerrp:

ive never run into such problems

[04:27:07]

iamlindoro__:

the "-" compiles out support afaik

[04:27:14]

wagnerrp:

of course i dont bother tinkering with such settings

[04:27:28]

iamlindoro__:

like the rash of "-ivtv" we had a year or so ago

[04:27:34]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, that's what I thought wagnerrp was saying... thx

[04:27:51]

sphery:

wagnerrp: do you know whether the default use flags for mysql contain -latin1?

[04:27:54]

wagnerrp:

'<flag>' enables it, '-<flag>' disables it

[04:27:59]

wagnerrp:

what package, mysql?

[04:28:02]

sphery:

yeah

[04:28:17]

sphery:

I tried looking at the ebuild, but couldn't figure out where it got use flags

[04:28:18]

iamlindoro__:

$5 on "no"

[04:28:21]

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[04:28:44]

iamlindoro__:

then again, it's just about monumentally weird enough to be "yes" given gentoo

[04:29:18]

sphery:

$5 on "no" ?

[04:29:23]

wagnerrp:

indeed, default for gentoo is '-latin1'

[04:29:28]

sphery:

I was looking at http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x . . . ;view=markup

[04:29:35]

sphery:

wagnerrp: did you build with that?

[04:29:43]

wagnerrp:

of course my sql server does not run on gentoo, so its never been an issue for me

[04:29:44]

iamlindoro__:

what a gigantic cockup

[04:30:05]

sphery:

wagnerrp: can you do: SHOW CHARSET LIKE 'latin1%';

[04:30:12]

sphery:

on a gentoo mysql server?

[04:30:14]

iamlindoro__:

Well, not to worry, .21 ought to get unmasked in time for .22

[04:30:18]

sphery:

(do you have one running)

[04:30:21]

wagnerrp:

i suppose i can start one up

[04:30:24]

wagnerrp:

its installed

[04:30:30]

sphery:

huge thanks

[04:31:07]

sphery:

if there's really no latin1 charset, many gentoo users are likely to have databases that won't upgrade to 0.22 properly.

[04:31:13]

iamlindoro__:

at this rate it won't affect anyone until .23 is released

[04:31:55]

wagnerrp:

[04:32:05]

sphery:

hmmm... that means it has support for latin1

[04:32:15]

sphery:

and it was compiled with -latin1?

[04:32:24]

wagnerrp:

but... thats so swedish...

[04:32:32]

iamlindoro__:

rather swedish

[04:32:32]

sphery:

yeah, MySQL is swedish

[04:33:10]

sphery:

wow... http://www.tv.com/story/12016.html?tag=show;latest_news;title;2

[04:33:10]

wagnerrp:

it was compiled with... 'USE="berkdb perl ssl -big-tables -cluster -debug -embedded -extraengine -latin1 -max-idx-128 -minimal (-selinux) -static"'

[04:33:51]

** CaptObviousman wonders if he should find out what all those things mean **

[04:35:05]

iamlindoro__:

Remember kids, gentoo is for masochists

[04:35:34]

iamlindoro__:

And for the kids who didn't believe their mothers and touched the hot stove anyway

[04:35:55]

sphery:

Hmmm. So if -latin1 doesn't say, "don't include latin1 charset", I have no idea what it means. But if the database has latin1 support, that can't be why the conversion fails.

[04:35:56]

iamlindoro__:

BAD Timmy! While you live under this roof you will use PACKAGES!

[04:38:19]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, http://bugs.gentoo.org/130419

[04:38:37]

iamlindoro__:

I would hazard a guess that it includes support, but defaults to UTF8

[04:38:41]

sphery:

gotta say freedenizen is /very/ good at responding quicly

[04:40:15]

iamlindoro__:

http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=19292

[04:40:19]

iamlindoro__:

Also maybe relevant?

[04:40:27]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, defaulting to utf8 isn't a problem as mc.sql would set it to use latin1 (or mysqldump would for those tables/columns it creates--assuming the backup was made from a latin1 db)

[04:40:35]

CaptObviousman:

can anyone think of a reason why myth-setup would get stuck in the same spot every time I tell it to scan for ATSC channels?

[04:40:56]

wagnerrp:

do you have a dual core processor?

[04:41:04]

CaptObviousman:

yes

[04:41:04]

iamlindoro__:

depends on what you mean by stuck, and where

[04:41:06]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: even if you don't run mc.sql, we have some defensive ALTER DATABASE lines in the db upgrade code that should fix it for you

[04:41:12]

wagnerrp:

or multiprocessor, or hyperthreaded P4

[04:41:29]

npm:

re: sphery: "does the use flag -latin1 only change the default charset in use or does it compile without latin1 support?" — not familiar w/ that flag... client has "--default-character-set=charset_name" --> See Section 2, "The Character Set Used for Data and Sorting"

[04:41:47]

CaptObviousman:

they're related somehow?

[04:41:59]

CaptObviousman:

it's an early C2D

[04:42:17]

wagnerrp:

the mythtv channel scanner does not like multithreading

[04:42:19]

npm:

hyperthreaded p4 shows up as 2 processors in linux

[04:42:37]

wagnerrp:

you have to force affinity to one core

[04:42:46]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, maybe a nice patch would be to drop mc.sql altogether and add "Able to connect to database, but mythconverg DB was not found. Would you like me to attempt to create it now?"

[04:43:36]

CaptObviousman:

hmm, that's very interesting. Thanks

[04:43:56]

sphery:

CaptObviousman: use taskset -c 0 to force it to use only the 0th core

[04:45:07]

CaptObviousman:

shall I do the same for back/front end?

[04:45:12]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: the things done in mc.sql (specifically the GRANTs and/or FLUSH PRIVILEGES) typically require MySQL root user permissions

[04:45:16]

wagnerrp:

the same what?

[04:45:18]

CaptObviousman:

I wouldn't think so

[04:45:24]

CaptObviousman:

force processor affinity

[04:45:34]

wagnerrp:

you shouldnt do anything for the backend or the frontend

[04:45:37]

sphery:

nope... only the channel scanner has the bug

[04:45:45]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, Right, a "yes" would prompt for a mysql admin username and password

[04:45:45]

wagnerrp:

so only mythtv-setup

[04:45:46]

CaptObviousman:

well thanks for clueing me into that

[04:46:42]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: could be done... I'm not currently happy with the the startup DB check code, so I may look at it sometime.

[04:46:50]

CaptObviousman:

hah, it made it past that point this time

[04:46:52]

** CaptObviousman looks happy **

[04:46:58]

CaptObviousman:

you guys rock

[04:47:33]

CaptObviousman:

and man, that is bizarre. It found NBC (channel 5) up around channel 42

[04:48:12]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, That is normal in digital television

[04:48:24]

iamlindoro__:

channel assignments and frequency assignemnts are different

[04:48:46]

iamlindoro__:

the "friendly" channels are usually assinged in metadata called PSIP

[04:49:07]

iamlindoro__:

so, for example, 78#1 on my scan has PSIP that changes the channel number to 2–1

[04:49:31]

iamlindoro__:

also generally gives the callsign, etc.

[04:49:52]

iamlindoro__:

But when the PSIP is missing, which also often happens, you end up with a channel called 78#1 that is actually what you know as 2

[04:51:43]

iamlindoro__:

Yay, people are still trying to put myth on ancient tivos

[04:51:49]

sphery:

meaning, "if you see hash/pound/number sign in your channel numbers, it means the stream is missing important info--channel callsign and channel number--that you should fill in yourself in the channel editor"

[04:52:02]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: as in run it on them?

[04:52:08]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, yep

[04:52:15]

sphery:

what a waste

[04:52:28]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, I'm sure you're quoting from some source that explains it all better than I could :)

[04:53:13]

CaptObviousman:

awesome awesome

[04:53:17]

sphery:

no, just adding to your description--which is completely correct

[04:53:19]

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[04:53:21]

** CaptObviousman has all his channels now **

[04:54:03]

sphery:

just mentioning that the '#' (versus '.' or '_'--depending on which you've chosen for your channel format) is indicative of missing info and used as a "needs attention" flag

[04:54:21]

sphery:

most users don't realize that and many have # in their channel numbers.

[04:54:36]

iamlindoro__:

unfortunately as the # is also a valid seperator it lends itself to confusion

[04:54:48]

sphery:

yeah, but not one of the ones you can choose

[04:55:07]

sphery:

technically, any non-digit character is a valid separator (in Myth)

[04:56:00]

iamlindoro__:

I really don't like the 0 as seperator

[04:56:10]

iamlindoro__:

makes things all kinds of crazy

[04:57:23]

sphery:

yeah, 0 is crazy (but good for people who watch LiveTV and don't have . or _ on remote). None is even crazier (channel 351).

[04:57:42]

sphery:

Guess I left minus ('-') out of the list

[04:58:10]

sphery:

though, again, the whole, "Why would anyone use LiveTV?" question comes to mind

[04:58:21]

iamlindoro__:

indeedy

[04:58:33]

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[04:58:40]

iamlindoro__:

Hmm, maybe a little popup when there's subcahnnels would be nice

[04:59:00]

iamlindoro__:

is 35–1, 35–2, 35–3, press 35 Select, get a popup of your choices

[04:59:18]

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[05:00:00]

** CaptObviousman hauls a keg of English stout into the channel and starts pouring everyone beers **

[05:00:56]

iamlindoro__:

I must say I look forward to mythui magic on the OSD, I have some little ideas I'd like to play with there

[05:00:57]

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[05:02:42]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, I can't wait for it

[05:03:15]

** sphery decides it's time (midnight) for dinner--which should go nicely with the English stout from CaptObviousman **

[05:04:18]

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[05:04:19]

CCFL_Man:

iamlindoro__: i'm amazed people watch over the air tv in the US, other than pbs and a couple public funded channels, it's all worthless

[05:06:23]

sphery:

I /only/ have OTA, and I'm in the US

[05:06:31]

** CaptObviousman is the same way **

[05:06:42]

CaptObviousman:

I wanted mythtv so i could watch football with timeshifting

[05:07:15]

npm:

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/directv-is-br . . . -dual-tuner/

[05:07:49]

npm:

just when i thought they were complete idiots, they actually do something right.. maybe

[05:08:41]

sphery:

I feel that cable TV is far more worthless... Discovery has a new show once every 6 months whether they need one ("Walking with <insert name here>"). TLC no longer involves learning. Really, only History (and I've heard it's gotten much worse recently), Food, and Sci Fi have anything interesting and I'm content to get my Sci Fi on DVD and get my Food at the Supermarket (i.e. I eat it instead of watching it because Food ...

[05:08:47]

sphery:

... Networks charges too much for the DVD's).

[05:09:25]

CaptObviousman:

heh, I was supposed to get this project finished before September

[05:09:29]

CaptObviousman:

as you can see that didn't happen

[05:09:35]

** CaptObviousman blames school **

[05:09:39]

sphery:

And, I don't have to pay my local cable racket $<too many tens of> each month

[05:09:49]

iamlindoro__:

npm, That project has been canceled

[05:10:28]

npm:

really?? the directv dual tuner??

[05:10:39]

iamlindoro__:

yep

[05:10:42]

npm:

the security nazi's axed it, or something else?

[05:11:01]

iamlindoro__:

Economy

[05:11:04]

npm:

because they got their data in there locked down like ft knox... re paid programming

[05:11:32]

npm:

in directv's case, it's "bozonomy"

[05:12:17]

iamlindoro__:

Security is easy, they were using authentication identical to cable card-- ie the recordings itself checks with the recording device to see if it's still okay to play, then lets you do it... so there was never any way to get the recordings and do anything with them, as they had to have access to that tuner at all times

[05:12:32]

iamlindoro__:

and no way to use it with myth as there would never be an implementation of their DRM under linux

[05:12:40]

CaptObviousman:

security nazi wut?

[05:12:41]

iamlindoro__:

so it would have remained an MCE product only anyway

[05:12:52]

npm:

i liked leaving this one scene from rome where there's this characters "man toy" all dressed up. pause on the image, freeze, reboot... walk away... next person that logs in to dvr devel box gets a brief flash of very strange picture...

[05:13:16]

iamlindoro__:

Anyway, we in Myth land already have ways of getting our STB HD content into myth :)

[05:13:31]

CaptObviousman:

ah, yes, that's another fun bridge I get to cross

[05:13:33]

** CaptObviousman is moving in a month **

[05:14:59]

CaptObviousman:

to a place where cable's already included, so I get to cross that bridge next

[05:16:25]

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[05:16:55]

npm:

speaking of content, is there any "public television" being broadcast, legally, for view over mythtv (i saw something about iptv)

[05:17:04]

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[05:17:04]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Captain_Murdoch

[05:17:27]

iamlindoro__:

no, iptv is not broadcast on the internet

[05:17:59]

iamlindoro__:

iptv is just that, TV transmitted over IP, but it's transmitted on a private provider network

[05:18:42]

iamlindoro__:

think of it as having a 10.0.0.x network and a 192.168.0.x network running in your home on the same switches. But the 192xxx network goes to the internet, and the 10.xxx network is kept private. That's how IPTV works too

[05:19:51]

npm:

is there anything that is... as in.. if I have a fast internet connection, why should i use "dish" or "cable"... like http://boxee.tv but open to being a plugin in mythtv

[05:20:11]

iamlindoro__:

no, there is no such beast

[05:20:24]

npm:

that's just plain silly, isn't it?

[05:20:48]

iamlindoro__:

Very very few people have download capacity that matches Television bitrates

[05:21:08]

iamlindoro__:

bitrate on the internet, even on "HD" sites like abc.com is a joke comapred to real TV bitrate

[05:21:16]

npm:

well very few people watch all the channels at the same time

[05:21:19]

CaptObviousman:

ok, so mythtv's working, time to explore plugins!

[05:21:20]

npm:

they don't need the bitrate

[05:21:26]

npm:

they just need a few streams

[05:21:30]

iamlindoro__:

npm, uhhhhhh... I'm speaking of a single channel

[05:21:44]

jamesd:

well compression helps a bit.

[05:21:53]

iamlindoro__:

a single channel hovers between 15–19 Megabit per second... And that's compressed.

[05:22:00]

npm:

i think i can easily stream multiple channels of tv resolution over my cable internet

[05:22:12]

iamlindoro__:

TV resolution, but not TV bitrate

[05:22:17]

kdubya:

15megabit mpeg2

[05:22:24]

kdubya:

it could be way lower then that

[05:22:27]

kdubya:

than

[05:22:36]

iamlindoro__:

kdubya, depends entirely on your locale

[05:22:45]

kdubya:

no, im saying if it wasnt mpeg2

[05:22:48]

kdubya:

it could be way lower

[05:22:50]

iamlindoro__:

BBC HD is a consistent 18–19 Mbit h.264

[05:22:58]

kdubya:

really?

[05:22:58]

CaptObviousman:

someone yesterday said Comcast compresses the hell out of channels down to 5 MBit

[05:23:00]

kdubya:

neat

[05:23:07]

npm:

exactly.. that's about right

[05:23:09]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, no

[05:23:18]

npm:

and you can't tell the diff w/ internet HD

[05:23:21]

CaptObviousman:

just rumor then?

[05:23:22]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, 2–5 for SD channels, 15–19 for HD

[05:23:27]

kdubya:

time warner compresses the hell out of the SD channels

[05:23:30]

CaptObviousman:

oh, that's perfectly fine

[05:23:34]

iamlindoro__:

AT&T *Uverse* does 6 Mbit HD channels

[05:23:40]

CaptObviousman:

aha

[05:23:41]

kdubya:

fox sports looks like 200x150 flash video

[05:23:52]

iamlindoro__:

whcih is what you heard yesterday, because I was the one who said it

[05:24:09]

CaptObviousman:

I'll have to ask my dad about that. He's proj manager for $VENDOR's Uverse program

[05:24:15]

CaptObviousman:

he'd know if anyone would

[05:24:27]

kdubya:

or you could just look it up

[05:24:29]

iamlindoro__:

You can ask anyone you like, whether he knows or not, it's still the truth :)

[05:24:39]

CaptObviousman:

not to verify, I believe you

[05:25:00]

CaptObviousman:

I'm just wondering why they think they can pull the wool over everyone's eyes like that when other content delivery services are not

[05:25:06]

npm:

unfortunately boxee.tv chose the wrong linux for their launch but claim they'll have windows out before end of year

[05:25:09]

CaptObviousman:

obviously people are noticing

[05:25:11]

jamesd:

mythtv + 2 digital tuner cards + 750GB harddrive and one or two videos a week provides enough options to keep my family happy and saves about $50 in cable fees... saving about %600 a year with no cable bill.

[05:25:14]

iamlindoro__:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/09/22/atandt-w . . . -on-u-verse/

[05:25:20]

iamlindoro__:

And they're going to make it worse, yay

[05:26:41]

npm:

someone needs to write an "AI" program to add detail back to images of "known stuff"

[05:27:13]

npm:

so that http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgethd.com/med . . . naldinho.jpg ends up looking realistic on viewing

[05:27:25]

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[05:27:41]

iamlindoro__:

You can make a big suit small, but you can't make a small suit big

[05:27:54]

npm:

you can if you know what a typical suit looks like

[05:28:01]

iamlindoro__:

If the data ain't there, it ain't there, there's no program in the world that can fix that

[05:28:16]

CaptObviousman:

if you can solve this problem npm, you will be a fantastically rich man

[05:28:18]

iamlindoro__:

This isn't CSI

[05:28:34]

CaptObviousman:

because there's no way, it's so incredibly situational

[05:28:42]

npm:

sure it could... you could do face recognition, and put an "animated" fake face ontop of the blurred one

[05:29:15]

iamlindoro__:

Face recognition of a blurry mess? And what happens when I tune in to Jessica alba porn and she looks like Burt Reynolds?

[05:29:34]

npm:

that's the excitement of technology

[05:29:44]

npm:

hit the AI-deblur button to "off"

[05:30:08]

iamlindoro__:

Huh?

[05:30:16]

iamlindoro__:

This is the dumbest Idea I've ever heard

[05:30:27]

iamlindoro__:

and I've spent a few years in this channel with clever

[05:30:32]

iamlindoro__:

so that's saying somethign

[05:30:33]

npm:

speaking of "AI" .. how does mythtv determine where commercials are.

[05:30:35]

CaptObviousman:

Jessica Alba with a hairy chest and a mustache. That's hot

[05:30:42]

npm:

i know that it isn't ai to do that

[05:30:57]

CaptObviousman:

there's cues that you can pick out of a video stream

[05:31:03]

npm:

that's probably what she looked like preop

[05:31:09]

iamlindoro__:

Though a variety of methods including fading, logo detection, etc.

[05:31:11]

CaptObviousman:

like there's commonly a blank to black for 1/2s-2s before commercials start

[05:31:16]

iamlindoro__:

s/though/through/

[05:31:44]

npm:

is there any documentation on how it is done, or where should I RTSL for it?

[05:31:52]

CaptObviousman:

you know, i was going to go to bed early tonight, but I'm glad I didn't

[05:31:59]

iamlindoro__:

Source

[05:32:23]

npm:

what should i be looking for? or where

[05:32:35]

iamlindoro__:

mythtv/programs/mythcommflag/*

[05:32:36]

npm:

mythtv is a big package w/ lots of components

[05:34:07]

npm:

well this isn't it... http://projects.gatorlug.org/truthinesstv/bro . . . in.cpp?rev=3 wtf is truthinesstv

[05:34:30]

iamlindoro__:

so look in the actual myth source and not on some random site?

[05:37:14]

npm:

which is where if I don't want to DL the entire thing

[05:37:30]

iamlindoro__:

svn.mythtv.org

[05:38:18]

npm:

that'll work, or this : http://cuymedia.org/mythtv-0.21/

[05:38:20]

** CaptObviousman senses less-than-epic failure on the horizon **

[05:38:36]

iamlindoro__:

only if you don't care what the source looks like right now

[05:38:59]

iamlindoro__:

and don't actually want to look at source

[05:40:09]

npm:

i want to look at API's

[05:40:11]

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[05:40:29]

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[05:41:42]

** CaptObviousman starts poking through the source himself **

[05:42:14]

CaptObviousman:

were a person interested in contributing, where would such a person go to see a "most wanted" list or something like that

[05:42:20]

iamlindoro__:

Better to look through the *source* than to trust everyone to put doxygen comments in (as they haven't)

[05:42:50]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, There's not, really. Just pick something you'd like to work on, bounce it off of everyone to make sure you're not repeating an effort, and go to torn

[05:42:51]

iamlindoro__:

er town

[05:43:16]

iamlindoro__:

when you're done, open a ticket with the patch, and start haranguing the people responsible for the element it applies to

[05:43:27]

iamlindoro__:

I'm mid-harangue myself in fact

[05:43:54]

** iamlindoro__ looks pointedly at a certain committer **

[05:44:21]

CaptObviousman:

ok then

[05:44:44]

** npm checks out source on my really fast connection **

[05:44:46]

CaptObviousman:

you've been most helpful

[05:45:10]

** iamlindoro__ burps and picks his nose **

[05:45:17]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, You're welcome, good luck

[05:45:22]

npm:

done

[05:45:33]

CaptObviousman:

npm: umm, congrats? You want a medal or something?

[05:45:47]

CaptObviousman:

I suppose any contributions should be to trunk and not something elder

[05:46:01]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, Watch out, don't get between the ruler and the wang

[05:46:04]

npm:

403M trunk/

[05:46:04]

** CaptObviousman starts retrieving trunk again **

[05:46:13]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, yes, patches need to be against trunk

[05:47:10]

iamlindoro__:

CaptObviousman, well, enhancements need to be anyway

[05:47:21]

iamlindoro__:

patching a defect in the current release isn't a bad thing

[05:47:40]

npm:

updating linux at 80–100Mb/s was quite surprising

[05:47:46]

Lexridge:

My wife wanted a movie nite tonight, and she got the worst movie possible...Mamma Mia. Ugh!!! What a shitty movie that was. I need sports, cigars and beer NOW!!!! HELP!!!

[05:47:53]

CaptObviousman:

I think when I looked into myth a year ago, there was some requests for enhancements to archiving and importing/exporting outside video to the database

[05:48:11]

** CaptObviousman pours Lexridge a pint of his English stout **

[05:48:14]

CaptObviousman:

calm down boy

[05:48:21]

CaptObviousman:

good beer fixes everything

[05:48:37]

CaptObviousman:

have a Fuller's London to straighten you out

[05:48:42]

Lexridge:

lol

[05:49:26]

Lexridge:

I've just opened a shitty bud-lite..that's all that's available ATM. ;)

[05:49:39]

CaptObviousman:

=(

[05:49:48]

CaptObviousman:

a one that is not cold is hardly a one at all

[05:50:18]

npm:

i think a cool feature would be an internet-share of http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mythcommflag seektables

[05:50:24]

Lexridge:

watching this movie has harmed me for the rest of my life!!! I hope the beer cures it in a hurry!

[05:50:27]

npm:

how long does it take to process for commercials

[05:50:47]

iamlindoro__:

Oh this thing again

[05:50:53]

iamlindoro__:

No, will never happen

[05:51:05]

npm:

why?

[05:51:21]

iamlindoro__:

if you have the processor, you can set commflag to start when the recording starts and it will be done when the recording ends

[05:51:46]

iamlindoro__:

for a million different reasons not the least of which is varying lengths of commercials from market to market

[05:51:58]

iamlindoro__:

and provider to provider

[05:52:02]

CaptObviousman:

damn video takes a crapton of space up

[05:52:46]

npm:

you'd have multiple versions and multiple shares... regions would figure out "organically"

[05:52:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

npm, do a search for it, that idea comes up on the mailing list every year or so and we shoot it down every time.

[05:53:48]

npm:

ok... it's just an idea

[05:54:35]

CaptObviousman:

oh hey I forgot I set southpark to record

[05:54:43]

** CaptObviousman hasn't seen this show in literally 6 years **

[05:54:51]

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[05:54:56]

npm:

but if two files of same length ended up both being called The Daily Show With Jon Stewart_COMEDYP_04_12_2008_19_58_04.dvr-ms*

[05:54:57]

npm:

there's a good chance it's from the same network

[05:55:38]

Captain_Murdoch:

what happens when the two people recording it set different pre-roll numbers or have clocks out of sync?

[05:56:00]

GuinnessGuy:

hola – has anyone running trunk (as of the last week) had any problems with the "Scheduled Recordings" page?

[05:56:01]

npm:

then it won't work for them

[05:56:04]

iamlindoro__:

npm, dare I ask, have you even set up a working myth box yet?

[05:56:06]

npm:

run ntpd

[05:56:19]

npm:

just a semi-working myth box

[05:56:28]

Captain_Murdoch:

what happens when the local station in market X starts 2 seconds behind the station in market Y?

[05:56:52]

npm:

i can't get my tv tuner working: need help finding a fedora 10 compatible driver for Adaptec AVC3610 (also sold by Phillips and HP in past) — http://www.freelists.org/post/linux-avc2210k/ . . . l-TV-Tuner,4 mentions the chipsets used: CX23416–12. CX25840–23 CX25840–23, 53L32AKZ (Audio ADC?) ... and this is a driver ftp://81.86.3.90/avc2210k/ .... which also requires ftp://81.86.3.90/multiload/ /// (8:02:17

[05:56:53]

iamlindoro__:

and the interior commercial breaks differ?

[05:57:00]

iamlindoro__:

or re-encoding causes slight speedup and slowdown?

[05:57:20]

iamlindoro__:

npm, As We covered *hours* ago, there is no linux tuner for your device.

[05:57:26]

iamlindoro__:

er linux driver

[05:57:30]

npm:

and i started looking at myth for a similar project i'm doing, but not for "home"

[05:58:03]

npm:

or "tv" ... and myth might be a good framework for some of the stuff i need to do

[05:58:32]

npm:

that's why i should look at the source

[05:58:37]

GuinnessGuy:

I'm wondering if changeset 19319 or 19320 broke the ability to suppress multiple recordings without having to wait for the previous one to complete. Cause it no longer works for me, and doesn't repaint any more...

[05:58:48]

iamlindoro__:

I strongly suggest setting up myth before getting too ambitious about hacking on the source

[05:59:02]

iamlindoro__:

understanding myth, no matter how smart you are, requires context from having run it

[06:00:38]

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[06:00:55]

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[06:05:53]

npm:

i agree... but i am not buying a tuner right now since then i'll just watch tv

[06:06:53]

npm:

maybe i'll just have to drop the right format file somehwhere and run mythcommflag myself

[06:08:20]

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[06:15:35]

npm:

hmm... lemme ask my "getting content over the network" question a difft way... is there anything like a podcast-feed reader plugin for mythtv ... or ways of recording/timeshifting live h264 streams

[06:17:09]

npm:

golem-51-.../trunk/mythtv> grep -i -R podcast .

[06:17:09]

npm:

says "no"

[06:17:39]

iamlindoro:

There is a podcast/feed player that *may* become a core plugin eventually. It runs only on trunk and is broken this week. I happen to know a bit about it as I'm at least partially responsible for it. MythTube.

[06:17:52]

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[06:18:03]

npm:

interesting... googling

[06:18:30]

iamlindoro:

As to recording/timeshifting h.264 streams, I presume you mean things like hulu

[06:18:45]

iamlindoro:

As myth can record h264 from DVB-S/T/C tuners just fine today

[06:18:58]

iamlindoro:

not to mention the Hauppauge Hd-PVr

[06:19:17]

iamlindoro:

To which the answer is no, Myth cannot do Hulu et al

[06:19:22]

npm:

or just krcw's "morning becomes eclectic" video podcast

[06:19:42]

iamlindoro:

If it's a podcast, MythTube can likely do it

[06:19:51]

npm:

well that would require "scraping" hulu

[06:20:08]

iamlindoro:

Then it's not a real podcast

[06:20:08]

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[06:20:17]

npm:

does mythtube "scrape" youtube's flv

[06:20:18]

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[06:20:36]

iamlindoro:

No, MythTube downloads the original MP4 files from Youtube

[06:21:25]

iamlindoro:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5589

[06:22:03]

npm:

cool, thanks!! that is awesome

[06:23:41]

CaptObviousman:

the more I get into this, the more I am blown away. Mythtv is an amazing project

[06:24:04]

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[06:24:43]

npm:

so can i run 'mythcommflag' on video's from mythtube ??

[06:24:59]

iamlindoro:

no. Why would a podcast need commflagging?

[06:25:21]

npm:

i've seen commercials in podcasts all the time

[06:25:32]

npm:

and certainly in youtube videos

[06:26:01]

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[06:26:01]

npm:

but i'm not interested in commflagging per-se, i'm interested in "auto-indexing"

[06:26:05]

iamlindoro:

I am totally uninterested in adding commflagging to mythtube, that's utterly useless

[06:27:22]

npm:

well would it be impossible to do so? for example what format files are stored in mythtube, and why wouldn't you be able to run commflag on them?

[06:28:02]

CaptObviousman:

oh god I'm going to need another tuner

[06:28:11]

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[06:28:15]

iamlindoro:

It wouldn't be impossible to do, but as the tool is primarily meant to stream media, and commflagging isn't something that can be done on a live medium, it would be useless

[06:29:30]

npm:

one man's useless is another man's project :-)

[06:30:19]

iamlindoro:

npm: What part of "you can't commflag something being watched live" is escaping you?

[06:30:29]

iamlindoro:

I am out of patience with this

[06:31:56]

npm:

so you can't record or timeshift stuff in mythtube? that would be nice for some of us that want to see an internet presentation but can't be there to watch it

[06:32:00]

CaptObviousman:

that wouldn't even make any sense

[06:32:14]

CaptObviousman:

what do you substitute for the time during a supposed commercial?

[06:32:16]

CaptObviousman:

a test pattern?

[06:32:31]

npm:

why? if you have a live streaming broadcast that's not being replayed or stored anywhere

[06:33:17]

wagnerrp:

mythtube is for playing youtube

[06:33:23]

wagnerrp:

its all pre-recorded content

[06:33:26]

iamlindoro:

You can save the streams fine. In fact, we're even adding a download scheduler for RSS feeds. But mythcommflag as is would *not* work with advertisements shown in podcasts, and neither I nor alvaro have any interest in adding it, there's far too much actual work to be done on it

[06:33:36]

npm:

i wasn't interesting in substituting for time. i was interested in marking transition points

[06:34:05]

iamlindoro:

And I frankly am building up a healthy disdain for you "suggestions" when you haven't even completed a working myth install

[06:34:32]

npm:

i'm not making feature requests, i'm looking for platforms, and i'm lookling to avoid reinvention of wheel

[06:34:37]

iamlindoro:

so please don't presume to tell me how to tool *I* have put many hours into making work and improve should work

[06:34:50]

npm:

what on earth are you talking about?

[06:36:30]

npm:

but thanks for the software anyways...

[06:37:59]

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[06:46:12]

npm:

Mythcommflag --file --rebuild seems to do what i need ... build a cutlist in mysql

[06:47:26]

iamlindoro:

better read closer that doesn't do commflagging

[06:48:21]

npm:

--gencutlist Copy the commercial skip list to the cutlist and --getcutlist??

[06:48:36]

iamlindoro:

nope

[06:48:57]

iamlindoro:

This is where the "actually run myth first" bit comes in

[06:48:57]

npm:

i don't want commflagging i want a seektable of iteresting times

[06:49:09]

iamlindoro:

that's not what a seektable is

[06:49:15]

iamlindoro:

and they have nothing to do with interesting times

[06:49:36]

npm:

so what is a seektable??

[06:49:38]

iamlindoro:

Beginning to wonder if I'm feeding a troll

[06:49:57]

npm:

seems like you're lookling to pick a fight from my end.

[06:50:23]

npm:

when i'm just asking questions about a program i just installed and ran for the first time today

[06:50:52]

npm:

which i got not because i want to watch tv, but because i want to segment video files

[06:51:11]

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[06:51:21]

npm:

so if there's a better platform for me to use, i'm all ears

[06:52:03]

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[06:53:19]

iamlindoro:

You should read the manual, it answers most (all) the the questions you have asked. It's far, far too early to be trying to make myth a "platform" for whatever project it is you're trying to build off of myth

[06:53:51]

npm:

well otherwise i have to write it all myself

[07:00:11]

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[07:04:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

npm, search for comskip and run it under windows. it's a command line util that runs on a given video file and spits out commercial marks. it's originally based on mythcommflag, but has been heavily modified (and possibly totally rewritten) since then.

[07:08:59]

RyeBrye:

justinh: do you have your theme that uses mythui that you are working on posted somewhere?

[07:09:18]

RyeBrye:

justinh: I might be more motivated to work on on icons if I had something to play with :) :P

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[07:18:13]

RyeBrye:

has anyone seen vdpau segfault on less than perfect recordings?

[07:19:50]

RyeBrye:

standard decoder plays back the mpeg2 stream that has various problems (mb incr damaged, slice mistmatch, ac-tex damaged, mb incr damaged... etc) but the when vdpau on it segfaults quickly when it is fed the bad part I believe

[07:21:20]

kormoc:

Segfaults, full hardware crashes/lockups, etc, aye, there are quite common still

[07:21:28]

kormoc:

destruction of video cards...

[07:22:37]

RyeBrye:

ok. I presume reporting it is probably not necessary?

[07:22:58]

kormoc:

They would like you to, aye, it's all covered in the nvnews.net forums

[07:22:59]

RyeBrye:

I could probably find a way to loslessly extract just the part that has errors and post it somewhere

[07:23:06]

RyeBrye:

k

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[07:25:17]

justinh:

RyeBrye: it's not available anywhere. losing motivation if I'm totally honest :(

[07:25:40]

RyeBrye:

justinh: you are our only hope!

[07:25:53]

RyeBrye:

myth 0.22 ships with only CLI ;)

[07:26:11]

RyeBrye:

hmm.... CLI would be a cool theme idea

[07:26:24]

justinh:

it's that damn manual schedule screen. it's just so totally devoid of _anything_

[07:26:28]

RyeBrye:

except it would likely suck in practice :)

[07:26:30]

justinh:

ruined the whole thing

[07:26:38]

RyeBrye:

manual schedule?

[07:26:43]

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[07:27:09]

RyeBrye:

yeah... nobody ever uses that

[07:27:13]

RyeBrye:

just ignore it :)

[07:28:01]

justinh:

I need to clean up a lot of unused graphics, then I'll be able to upload a tarball for you to play with

[07:29:38]

RyeBrye:

ok cool

[07:29:49]

RyeBrye:

it doesn't have to be tonight – I'll probably go to bed soon

[07:29:49]

justinh:

I

[07:29:52]

justinh:

duh

[07:30:09]

justinh:

I'll /msg you when it's ready. probably won't be today though

[07:30:15]

RyeBrye:

sounds good

[07:30:22]

RyeBrye:

your theme is making use of the new mythui goodies?

[07:31:32]

justinh:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/ . . . concept3.png wouldn't be possible without mythui :)

[07:31:57]

RyeBrye:

that's pretty cool

[07:32:18]

justinh:

nor http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/ . . . concept6.png

[07:32:31]

justinh:

nor http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/ . . . concept5.png :D

[07:32:58]

RyeBrye:

I'll probably read up on the format and such of the theme pieces

[07:33:07]

RyeBrye:

Ah. I like the concept 5 piece :)

[07:33:25]

justinh:

that's the video browser view

[07:34:47]

RyeBrye:

any way to do animation of the stuff? so like when you start scrolling the videos left and right (no selected video settled upon) the description stuff below it slides up like a drawer – and when you settle on a selection (or leave it selected for more than a split second) – the description stuff animates sliding down?

[07:34:50]

justinh:

basically what I'm looking for icons for is 1) watermarks 2) menu titles 3) all the usual icon cruft like 'commflagged' etc

[07:34:59]

RyeBrye:

yeah, I can help with those

[07:35:05]

justinh:

RyeBrye: none of that is currently possible

[07:36:13]

justinh:

it wouldn't be remotely funny to 'joke' that gbee has been slacking, cos he certainly hasn't

[07:36:57]

RyeBrye:

ok. I wonder if there could be a way to implement a state / transition between states bit into the mythui which could handle that – but I've not looked at the mythui internals or theming either for that matter

[07:37:38]

justinh:

oh the framework for animations & transitions (movement etc) is in place – just there's no parsing of it & probably some other essential glue missing

[07:37:47]

RyeBrye:

ok

[07:38:24]

justinh:

I think it's ok the animation isn't in place yet anyway – there's more than enough to distract as it is

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[07:38:51]

justinh:

I can't see that changing til every screen & all the popular plugings have been converted

[07:39:03]

RyeBrye:

yeah

[07:39:23]

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[07:39:51]

justinh:

I think I'll probably set to & make stuff like new checkboxes & crap today

[07:40:06]

RyeBrye:

The scrollbars look nice

[07:40:19]

justinh:

2 seconds' work in inkscape :)

[07:41:01]

justinh:

need to play with ideas to carry the selectbar look into popups

[07:41:49]

justinh:

those still might change to outlines yet. seems to contradict the cleanliness of other parts

[07:42:39]

RyeBrye:

on http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/ . . . concept3.png the hilighted portion to me feels like it should be that whole row

[07:42:49]

RyeBrye:

not just the top line – but that's just my 2 cents

[07:43:34]

justinh:

see where you've gone wrong there is assuming the top line is another list item

[07:43:50]

justinh:

it ain't. it's a horizontal button list

[07:44:01]

justinh:

the 'group select' if you will

[07:44:18]

RyeBrye:

justinh: sorry... not the top line – I mean the line that is on the show itself

[07:44:39]

justinh:

ah

[07:44:42]

RyeBrye:

justinh: the selected Friday Night Project line...

[07:44:59]

justinh:

it doesn't work for me any other way

[07:45:24]

justinh:

I might try it without the highlight though

[07:45:56]

RyeBrye:

Maybe a triangle pointer that sits on the edge to indicate the selected item?

[07:46:03]

justinh:

eew

[07:46:22]

RyeBrye:

you have triangles already introduced into the theme in other places so it wouldn't be entirely out of place

[07:46:33]

RyeBrye:

it's helpful to have some kind of selection indicator...

[07:46:39]

justinh:

I'll be changing the fonts to make the selected stuff more obvious too

[07:46:49]

justinh:

these are no way the finished article

[07:46:59]

RyeBrye:

Ok :)

[07:47:10]

justinh:

if I ever finish the ****er

[07:47:15]

RyeBrye:

They are definitely better than what I'm staring at right now

[07:47:31]

RyeBrye:

I've got Mythcenter Wide or whatever it is called on now and it's ok

[07:47:35]

RyeBrye:

but not great by any means

[07:47:58]

justinh:

I hate mythcenter with a passion I used to reserve for GANT

[07:48:21]

** RyeBrye shudders just to see GANT **

[07:48:56]

justinh:

IIRC mythcenter was meant to be a nod to MCE, something it doesn't achieve by a long shot IMHO

[07:51:39]

justinh:

hrm. alpha isn't supported by the qt painter IIRC. bah, don't want to go down the road of using different font colours again

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[07:54:19]

justinh:

"hrm. I wonder what line of enquiry this person will follow..."

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[08:02:38]

test1:

justinh: ty justin for your help with soundcard and capture of line in, now i have sound and everything ok :) it's cool

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[08:24:16]

test1:

please,

[08:24:59]

test1:

i have that message : <aaaaaaa>.xmltv is empty, please delete and run me with --configure

[08:25:19]

test1:

what is the correct command to write in konsole to do it ?

[08:25:43]

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[08:26:15]

laga:

test1: what grabber are you using?

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[08:33:06]

justinh:

well, that's given me less to do :)

[08:33:56]

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[08:35:09]

test1_:

im using grab_fr

[08:35:16]

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[08:36:33]

test1_:

anyone knows a good grab for french tv ? (numÃ©ricable paris / chaines analogiques)

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[08:38:26]

justinh:

tv_grab_fr :)

[08:39:36]

test1_:

ty

[08:39:44]

test1_:

(again)

[08:40:06]

justinh:

same thing as you're trying to use now – you know you have to CONFIGURE it properly for it to work!

[08:41:00]

justinh:

eesh I dunno. all this modern software around & yet it STILL can't read a user's mind. WTF is up with that?!

[08:41:08]

justinh:

JUST WORK ALREADY!

[08:42:01]

test1_:

justinh: well .. i found my channels with scan (all as "unknown") but i am not able to have a correct .xmltv file ...

[08:42:19]

test1_:

even with the good grab.. (i selected this grab..)

[08:42:33]

justinh:

you have to do MORE than just select a grabber :-O

[08:42:46]

justinh:

you have to CONFIGURE the grabber too! :-O

[08:43:04]

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[08:43:04]

test1_:

plz what is the command ?

[08:43:28]

test1_:

(i have the message cable.xmltv is empty, please delete and run me with --configure)

[08:44:02]

test1_:

(when running mythfilldatabase)

[08:44:26]

justinh:

when you selected the grabber in mythtv-setup you apparently forgot to configure the grabber. nifty

[08:44:40]

test1_:

ok..

[08:44:57]

** justinh goes out **

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[09:04:28]

** justinh closes the uninvited (RUDE!) /msg without reading it! Effing ignorant frogs **

[09:04:59]

test1_:

...

[09:05:01]

test1_:

:)

[09:05:06]

test1_:

learning ;)

[09:05:27]

** directhex always closes /msg from people he doesn't know, unread **

[09:05:35]

justinh:

not learning but trying. Oh so very trying

[09:05:49]

test1_:

all good..sry

[09:05:55]

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[09:06:29]

test1_:

i know u busy and useful , so i'll try to respect rules :)

[09:07:09]

justinh:

hrm. my ISP won't let me delete directories I created on my webspace

[09:08:12]

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[09:08:21]

jduggan:

hrm

[09:08:28]

jduggan:

are there any files under the directory?

[09:08:36]

justinh:

nope

[09:08:46]

jduggan:

crazy

[09:09:10]

justinh:

rmdir isn't allowed since I'm apparently not the ownder

[09:09:14]

justinh:

*owner

[09:09:23]

jduggan:

some perms issue probably, I doubt thats intended behaviour, unless you're trying to delete a reserved directory

[09:09:28]

jduggan:

like the publish dir?

[09:09:41]

justinh:

all dirs I created under my /

[09:09:46]

jduggan:

<- works for a large webhost outfit

[09:09:48]

jduggan:

;P

[09:10:33]

justinh:

ruh? it let me rename it!

[09:11:30]

justinh:

ftp> rmdir old

[09:11:31]

justinh:

550 old: File exists

[09:11:54]

justinh:

ls old.. no files in there, man

[09:11:58]

jduggan:

is this fasthosts by any chance

[09:12:06]

justinh:

nah

[09:12:16]

justinh:

I'm not fool enough to PAY for hosting I don't need

[09:13:05]

otwin:

justinh: this can happen if you created a dir via some web interface and now try do delete trough ftp – although it should not

[09:13:37]

otwin:

justinh: so the dir would have apache ownership

[09:13:40]

justinh:

I used filezilla on my windows desktop box to make the dir.. or possibly commandline ftp

[09:14:25]

otwin:

well then ownership should be ok

[09:14:39]

otwin:

s/ok/the same

[09:14:40]

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[09:15:52]

CCFL_Man:

it's sleetimg and freezing rain

[09:16:06]

CCFL_Man:

my 6 foot dish lost signal

[09:16:09]

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[09:18:04]

jduggan:

heh 6ft? are you on the edge of footprint?

[09:18:20]

justinh:

well, might as well just tar this up & delete the dirs. sack it

[09:19:24]

justinh:

much rather just sit here wasting time than sit staring at xml

[09:20:12]

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[09:22:27]

test1_:

some HELP from a french user would b very welcome .. : "updating source with tv_grab_fr, found 2 channels" (only) ; and .. "Data refresh needed because no data exists for day @ offset 0 from 8PM"

[09:22:32]

test1_:

(au secours..)

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[09:27:31]

test1_:

"Grabber is no longer returning program data, finishing" (tv_grab_fr) .. wow

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[09:41:19]

justinh:

mmmm lovely http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=167473

[09:42:56]

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[09:53:40]

justinh:

argghh yeah my hotel is literally opposite the club I'm going to on saturday. result

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[10:27:36]

Enox:

Does the pcHDTV HD-5500 work as a well supported video capture card if I dont use the tuner capability?

[10:27:57]

justinh:

only for SDTV

[10:28:15]

justinh:

and any encoding of video has to be done in software

[10:28:41]

Enox:

Ahh.. So not a good solution for me. Would you suggest a haupage card?

[10:28:45]

Enox:

hauppauge I gues it is :)

[10:29:08]

justinh:

for SDTV capture I'd always recommend Hauupauge over anything else. it's what they pay me to do

[10:29:19]

Enox:

What about HDTV?

[10:29:25]

justinh:

what about it?

[10:29:47]

Enox:

You mentioned specifically for SDTV capture which seems to imply it doesn't do something with HDTV?

[10:29:57]

justinh:

there's only one game in town for capturing component HD.. the Hauppauge HD-PVR. Kerching!

[10:30:51]

justinh:

and there's NO game in town for capturing HDMI other than a HDMI converter & a HD-PVR.. Mega-KERCHING!

[10:31:20]

Enox:

Why isn't there a PCI card out of curiosity?

[10:31:34]

justinh:

er.. because there isn't yet

[10:31:35]

justinh:

that's why

[10:31:49]

justinh:

ffs what kind of question is that?

[10:31:57]

justinh:

why isn't there a ski-lift to the moon?

[10:32:02]

Enox:

Just wondering if there's some sorta technical limitation.

[10:32:15]

justinh:

nah

[10:33:11]

Enox:

Does the HDMI converter change the plug type?

[10:33:20]

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[10:33:37]

justinh:

no, it strips HDCP protection & converts digital to component analogue

[10:33:47]

justinh:

mega-kerching, like I said

[10:33:51]

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[10:33:58]

Enox:

Does it downgrade quality to 1080i or somesuch?

[10:34:01]

pheld:

Enox: there are HDMI capture cards, but no proper linux-drivers yet

[10:34:31]

justinh:

those hdmi capture cards are useless for mythtv anyway since they don't do any compression onboard

[10:34:34]

justinh:

so FORGET em

[10:34:53]

justinh:

well one does.. of sorts... the blackmagic thing. MJPEG. Wooo

[10:35:07]

justinh:

8GB/minute or something crazy

[10:35:09]

Enox:

Can't HD signals be stuffed over component?

[10:35:20]

justinh:

see above

[10:35:20]

Enox:

I'm still such a noob on video, so I apologize for the silly questions ;)

[10:35:41]

justinh:

if you have a HD box which outputs component HD you can just use a HD-PVR from Hauppauge

[10:35:55]

justinh:

if all they give you is HDMI, you need a converter & a HD-PVR

[10:36:37]

justinh:

word on the street is that providers may one day disable component analogue output, leaving HD on digital outputs only

[10:36:59]

Enox:

Does the HD-PVR work for SDTV as well..Just kinda overkill? I have SDTV right now but I'm moving in a month and will have HDTV then.

[10:37:24]

justinh:

I wouldn't say it's ready for pprimetime either

[10:37:49]

justinh:

considering you've got to use the development branch of mythtv to use it

[10:37:55]

Enox:

Yes.. I'm sure that's coming in their neverending quest to make sure we watch content how they want.

[10:38:40]

Enox:

Development branch is required for the HD PVR?

[10:39:01]

justinh:

you can also grab HD content over firewire from cable boxes. YMMV with that – the channels you get with that deal varies between zero and everything you pay for (rare)

[10:39:06]

justinh:

that's what I said!

[10:39:19]

pheld:

around here networks are moving fast to make HDCP mandatory. How can HD-PVR deal with that?

[10:39:32]

sid3windr:

it doesn't

[10:39:37]

justinh:

pheld: with a nifty $400 converter box

[10:39:52]

justinh:

hence the 'megakerching!'

[10:40:16]

justinh:

the future's bright (for media providers)

[10:40:19]

pheld:

any alternative hardware is illegal according to network-operators definition of the law

[10:40:30]

justinh:

so?

[10:41:00]

justinh:

what about people whose TVs don't have HDCP? are the networks gonna buy everyone new TVs?

[10:41:13]

justinh:

or are they gonna get their asses sued off?

[10:41:15]

Enox:

justinh- That HDMI converter is on hauppauge's site where?

[10:41:24]

justinh:

it's nothing to do with Hauppauge

[10:41:28]

pheld:

that of course includes dvb-tuners and HW-cams, so the only option left seems to be the dreaded softcams

[10:41:34]

Enox:

Oh that's the HDFury2 ?

[10:41:59]

justinh:

yup

[10:42:36]

pheld:

why spend lots of money on commercial-decrypt hardware when your network operator calls you a pirate anyway?

[10:42:39]

justinh:

pheld: simple just to opt out of TV altoegther. we don't really NEED their stinking brain-rotting crap

[10:42:42]

Enox:

The HDFury2 claims to pass through 1080p... The HD PVR has a max of 1080i due to technical limitation of component or just some other random reason?

[10:43:12]

justinh:

Enox: most broadcast is 1080i anyway

[10:43:23]

justinh:

like 99% of it, at best

[10:43:27]

Enox:

I thought most broadcoast was 720 or something.

[10:43:41]

justinh:

I mean most is 1080i at best

[10:44:01]

justinh:

HD is just the same crap, but prettier

[10:44:08]

Enox:

So they just decided to keep it at 1080i ?

[10:44:41]

justinh:

there's precious little enough bandwidth to make 720p look decent, judging from some screenshots of cable HD I've seen

[10:51:00]

justinh:

heh it's sold over here now, hdfury2.. Â£144 inc VAT

[10:52:10]

Enox:

I'll probably be getting a hd-pvr and hdfury2.

[10:52:28]

Enox:

hdfury2 Just because it's the hole in their little walled garden and pisses them off.

[10:52:48]

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[10:54:34]

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[10:56:21]

** Dibblah considers building hdfurys... **

[10:57:00]

Dibblah:

Â£15 in parts. Would need a HDCP license, of course, though :(

[10:57:18]

justinh:

which you won't be given, of course, though

[10:57:26]

Dibblah:

Well, they have...

[10:57:30]

justinh:

ruh?

[10:57:44]

justinh:

so wtf is the whole point of HDCP?

[10:57:47]

tjcarter:

hdfury is a racket

[10:57:47]

Dibblah:

The company producing the HDFury have a HDCP license.

[10:58:15]

Enox:

The point of HDCP is to make sure you can only get the best quality on viewers they control.

[10:58:29]

Enox:

Has nothing to do with copying like they say.

[10:58:35]

Dibblah:

... It's sold as a "permanent attachment" – Which is the loophole they assume they can exploit.

[10:58:47]

tjcarter:

The argument for the hdfury is that it connects directly to the output device, so...

[10:59:38]

justinh:

Enox: home cinema!

[10:59:53]

tjcarter:

Dibblah: if you do it, make me a DVI model for a good price?

[11:00:00]

justinh:

as in.. it's like the kind of control the projectionist has over viewers at the cinema.. but in your home!

[11:00:12]

Dibblah:

tjcarter: You can make your own cheaper, if you have the right kit.

[11:00:24]

tjcarter:

Dibblah: I can't do SMT soldering

[11:00:31]

Dibblah:

Wuss :)

[11:00:32]

tjcarter:

and I certainly don't have HDCP license

[11:00:35]

tjcarter:

blind.

[11:00:38]

Enox:

justinh- The HD PVR do anything with the broadcast flag?

[11:00:47]

justinh:

the what?

[11:00:58]

justinh:

oh that total irrelevance...

[11:01:14]

** tjcarter likes that the grabber cards ignore macrovision if you tweak a setting in the kernel driver ;) **

[11:01:41]

justinh:

tjcarter: I thought it was just ignored altogether

[11:01:42]

Enox:

justinh- So even if it's 'broadcast flagged' 1080i is still output?

[11:01:57]

tjcarter:

justinh: nah, not unless the driver patch made it into the kernel

[11:01:58]

justinh:

Enox: BF is completely irrelevant to users of mythtv

[11:02:11]

tjcarter:

if so, it was part of support for certain ATI cards in bttv driver

[11:02:23]

Enox:

Ahh okay. I thought it was implemented on some video hardware.

[11:02:35]

justinh:

it's not implemented in hardware at all, that's the point!

[11:02:59]

justinh:

it's a clutch of bits in the stream

[11:03:19]

justinh:

you can either a) pay attention to them or b) do nothing. Guess what mythtv does

[11:03:26]

Enox:

:)

[11:04:23]

Dibblah:

justinh: What are you stuck on at the moment? Just filling out the rest of the screens?

[11:04:44]

justinh:

Dibblah: I'm not stuck. I've stopped altogether

[11:04:52]

Dibblah:

:(

[11:04:52]

justinh:

like I said. sod it

[11:05:22]

justinh:

nobody really thought I'd stick at it. I didn't

[11:05:35]

Dibblah:

Yes, actually, some people did ;)

[11:05:56]

Dibblah:

However, completely up to you :)

[11:06:07]

justinh:

I just can't be bothered right now. there's no telling how bored I'm going to get over the xmas break though

[11:06:07]

Dibblah:

It's your spare time.

[11:06:45]

justinh:

I finish my working year today :)

[11:07:04]

justinh:

after 4pm today, no more work til Jan 2nd

[11:08:19]

tjcarter:

I've got an odd sort of request..

[11:08:58]

tjcarter:

Does anyone know of a usb bluetooth keyboard adapter that appears like a USB keyboard, rather than a BT device?

[11:09:11]

Dibblah:

No.

[11:09:19]

justinh:

why would it matter if it was BT then?

[11:09:21]

Dibblah:

Don't use bluetooth if you don't want a PAN.

[11:09:41]

Dibblah:

It's overcomplicating things.

[11:09:47]

tjcarter:

justinh: looking for a particular sort of keyboard that's available in BT, but not wireless USB

[11:10:41]

justinh:

PANaceas.. blech :)

[11:11:12]

tjcarter:

yeah, tell me about it

[11:11:19]

Dibblah:

tjcarter: Can you be a little more vague?

[11:11:36]

Dibblah:

PS3 thumbpad?

[11:11:49]

Dibblah:

Foldy small thing?

[11:12:02]

tjcarter:

Dibblah: that's the kind of thing I'm thinking of, yeah

[11:12:24]

Dibblah:

tjcarter: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/28/bluetooth_device/

[11:12:25]

Dibblah:

?

[11:13:32]

** Dibblah should really use the NSFW tag, but... Hey, he'll find out soon enough! :) **

[11:13:54]

dustybin:

justinh: to free a PCI slot on my backend, im going to remove my digital soundcard, and buy one of these instead: http://www.limexb360.co.uk/product/Audio_Advantage_Micro_TBAAM

[11:14:13]

dustybin:

then get another Nova-T 500 dual tuner, the original 1 antenna version

[11:16:41]

justinh:

"HDCP compliant device should not allow easy access to uncrypted analog signal." .... "We have designed HDfury to comply to the above rules.". Eh?!

[11:17:14]

justinh:

so by that token how can hdfury be HDCP compliant?

[11:17:51]

tjcarter:

Dibblah: THAT is the funniest thing ever

[11:18:26]

Dibblah:

By plugging directly into the DVI port.

[11:18:49]

Dibblah:

So it "forms a part of" the device.

[11:19:06]

tjcarter:

Dibblah: they pulled a fast one and neglected to mention gender changers ;)

[11:19:20]

Dibblah:

Which I am very skeptical of passing any sort of judicial test.

[11:19:22]

justinh:

so effectively it's like a display in that regard then. jeees

[11:21:30]

Dibblah:

That appears to be their intent.

[11:21:47]

Dibblah:

But like I said, that's a pretty transparent argument.

[11:24:09]

dustybin:

Would this little gadget be good enough for splitting my antenna cable into 2 parts: http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e4/4d/281f_1.JPG

[11:24:58]

Dibblah:

Depends on your signal level.

[11:25:05]

Dibblah:

And the lengths of the run.

[11:25:13]

Dibblah:

And the quality of the terminations.

[11:25:25]

justinh:

what depends on what? who?

[11:25:39]

Dibblah:

It's a dumb splitter.

[11:25:41]

dustybin:

my signal is pretty good, i get about 70–80% with my nova-t 500

[11:26:12]

dustybin:

and that isnt using any kind of amplification

[11:26:17]

Dibblah:

justinh: Eh?

[11:26:32]

** justinh checks the log **

[11:26:49]

Dibblah:

If justdave is justdave, then why isn't he just dave?

[11:27:18]

** Dibblah would prefer initial character unique names :) **

[11:27:39]

** justinh thinks about JD....... **

[11:28:12]

justinh:

wonder if anywhere has any specials on Jack Daniels at the mo...

[11:28:15]

Dibblah:

A DJ on JD?

[11:40:19]

justinh:

a bum off work, on JD :)

[11:45:56]

jduggan:

<- known as jd

[11:46:29]

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[11:51:21]

justinh:

jesus H christ. somebody I used to work with @ Sun has let themselves go a bit.. or rather their hair. Very er.. hmmm. Klingon.. or is it just RAWK?

[11:52:16]

** justinh submits a feature request to Facebook. How about a FOAD button? **

[11:53:16]

dustybin:

justinh: are you one of those guys who has 12423423 friends on facebook?

[11:54:37]

** justinh is one of those guys who has 12 friends on facebook **

[11:54:37]

jduggan:

i'm one of those guys that doesnt even have a facebook

[11:54:41]

jduggan:

or myspace

[11:54:49]

jduggan:

or whatever else these socialnetworking fags use

[11:54:54]

jduggan:

(no offence intended(

[11:54:55]

jduggan:

)

[11:54:55]

jduggan:

:P

[11:54:59]

justinh:

none taken

[11:55:08]

jduggan:

its never appealed

[11:55:10]

jduggan:

to me

[11:55:20]

justinh:

we use it as a common platform to keep in touch, saves pissing about with IM clients & emails

[11:55:36]

justinh:

no updating of status every 5 secs

[11:55:45]

justinh:

"justin is.. IN THE CRAPPER"

[11:55:56]

justinh:

"justin is.. washing his hands"

[11:56:10]

dustybin:

justinh is.. fiddling with mythtv theme"

[11:56:10]

justinh:

seen people go on like that with Tw@tter

[11:56:24]

justinh:

dustybin: s/is/was

[11:56:32]

dustybin:

lol

[11:57:25]

justinh:

hey dustybin why aren't you off skiing in Whistler like you usually do? I prepared the ski lift & everything

[11:58:58]

Dibblah:

Aha! I've just discovered that mythconverg is in fact normalised. It's in -2nd normal form.

[12:01:08]

dustybin:

skiing?

[12:01:31]

justinh:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7786967.stm

[12:01:31]

** dustybin hasnt stepped foot outside his home for years **

[12:02:51]

dustybin:

eeek

[12:09:35]

jduggan:

seirously?

[12:09:45]

jduggan:

are you one of those people that hate the outside?

[12:11:46]

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[12:12:46]

dustybin:

jduggan: i dont like human contact

[12:13:11]

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[12:17:57]

justinh:

angoraphobic?

[12:18:08]

justinh:

no, wait that's somebody who's scared of fluffy wool

[12:18:17]

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[12:18:49]

justinh:

it's the way I tell em, I swear

[12:19:18]

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[12:19:45]

bluepoint:

Hi – I'm new to IRC and looking for some help with a newly added card to my MythTV setup – anyone able to help??

[12:20:43]

justinh:

nobody can help without being furnished with more information

[12:21:24]

justinh:

to save some guesswork on our part, what seems to be the problem?

[12:21:37]

bluepoint:

ok – so I have a new Nova-HD-S2 (DVB-S) card installed but unable to get the card to register correctly

[12:22:04]

bluepoint:

issue seems to be with loading the cx88xx driver

[12:22:34]

bluepoint:

[i also have a Nova-T and Nova-T-500 installed and working]

[12:24:36]

bluepoint:

cx88/2: cx2388x dvb driver version 0.0.6 loaded

[12:24:36]

bluepoint:

cx88/2: registering cx8802 driver, type: dvb access: shared

[12:24:37]

bluepoint:

cx88[0]/2: subsystem: 0070:6906, board: Hauppauge Nova-SE2 DVB-S [card=38]

[12:24:37]

bluepoint:

cx88[0]/2: cx2388x based DVB/ATSC card

[12:24:37]

bluepoint:

cx24123_readreg: reg=0x0 (error=-121)

[12:24:37]

bluepoint:

Version != d1 or e1

[12:24:39]

bluepoint:

cx88[0]/2: frontend initialization failed

[12:24:41]

bluepoint:

cx88[0]/2: dvb_register failed (err = -1)

[12:24:43]

bluepoint:

cx88[0]/2: cx8802 probe failed, err = -1

[12:24:53]

bluepoint:

is the dump from dmesg – does this help?

[12:25:01]

** justinh adds another to the /ignore list **

[12:26:28]

justinh:

from reading this "Version != d1 or e1" I'd guess that it's failed to recognise the card version for whatever reason. Looks like a job for #linuxtv

[12:27:00]

bluepoint:

:(

[12:28:05]

bluepoint:

perhaps there is is a newer card out – this is supposed to be supported by linuxtv, for once I checked before buying...

[12:28:15]

bluepoint:

thanks for the pointer..

[12:31:30]

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[12:33:54]

Enox:

If one has a box with a HD-5500 can one watch live TV from that box in another room?

[12:36:18]

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[12:38:56]

Enox:

Or can someone only watch live tv from the same box as it's connected to?

[12:43:45]

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[12:44:30]

justinh:

any frontend can use any available tuner, assuming it has the horsepower to play back the content

[12:44:51]

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[12:45:19]

Enox:

Ahh okay.. I just wasn't sure if it could suck live content over the ethernet or if it had to be put to disk first.

[12:45:37]

justinh:

it's all recorded to disk first

[12:45:43]

justinh:

even live tv

[12:45:52]

Enox:

Ahh okay.

[12:45:58]

Enox:

Thanks again justinh.

[12:48:15]

** justinh gives up looking for call quality comparisons of mobile phones :( Apparently how many megadoodles a phone has & how glossy its UI is are much more important :-\ **

[12:48:32]

Enox:

justinh- You call people on your phone? wtf.

[12:49:10]

justinh:

bcuz txt sux

[12:49:32]

Enox:

I mostly use the alarm clock feature, personally..

[12:50:54]

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[12:58:06]

dustybin:

libvisual support will not be included in MythMusic (requires SDL support)

[12:58:28]

dustybin:

anybody know what the SDL library is called, apt-cache search brings up a _massive_ list

[13:00:06]

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[13:00:11]

dustybin:

found it! apt-get install libsdl-gfx1.2-dev

[13:02:03]

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[13:03:43]

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[13:04:20]

justinh:

you don't want libvisual in mythmusic

[13:04:32]

justinh:

you think you do, but you don't ;-)

[13:05:39]

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[13:06:33]

dustybin:

heh

[13:07:17]

dustybin:

anybody here get that strange repeating effect with linear blend, it happens just before you tune in, and the OSD kind of prints itself ontop of itself, and slowly goes up the screen

[13:07:31]

dustybin:

then the TV comes on and its gone

[13:07:39]

jm|home:

I have seen that

[13:07:48]

jm|home:

can't remember when, though :/

[13:07:52]

dustybin:

it happens on my friends LCD as well as my CRT

[13:08:11]

dustybin:

only happens with the linear blend de-interlacer

[13:11:33]

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[13:49:28]

gsommer:

hmm, I just upgraded to latest 0.21-fixes (an hour old). and my mythbackend crashed when using libqt-mt.so... Anyone else seen this?

[13:52:48]

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[14:02:36]

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[14:04:41]

justinh:

dustybin: stop using a crap OSD theme

[14:05:10]

justinh:

problem comes from using an OSD theme where the status info area is in the same place as the show info area :P

[14:05:38]

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[14:05:56]

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[14:06:48]

dustybin:

justinh: its the mepo OSD!

[14:07:26]

bluepoint:

i think two of the best OSDs are MePo and metallurgy

[14:11:07]

dustybin:

me and my friends are both using svn, how comes my friends has themes like project grayhem + blootube, and i dont :(

[14:11:30]

dustybin:

we are both using the same revision of svn

[14:11:45]

bluepoint:

re the OSD re-print and going up the screen – I think you will find it's cause by the lag setting up the channel given different de-interlacers require more/less cpu you will get this..

[14:12:26]

bluepoint:

re themes – google them, just download and unzip to the themes dir myth will pick them up

[14:12:34]

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[14:12:53]

bluepoint:

glass wide is also nice

[14:13:01]

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[14:13:53]

bluepoint:

anyone got a NOVA-HD-S2 card working in Myth?

[14:14:03]

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[14:14:34]

bluepoint:

my card is now recognized but mythsetup can't scan for channels – 'can't pass parameters'

[14:15:57]

bluepoint:

it's recognised as Hauppauge WinTV-HVR4000(Lite) DVB-S/S2 [card=69]

[14:17:20]

dustybin:

ive switched to blootube wide now

[14:17:41]

dustybin:

everything looks lovely, apart from the fonts on the osd, looks like they are using a default courier font

[14:18:34]

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[14:27:21]

styelz:

i like the metalugry osd

[14:27:35]

justinh:

dustybin: it'd still affect those shite OSD themes too :)

[14:28:02]

styelz:

:)

[14:28:14]

justinh:

glad to be out of that

[14:29:00]

justinh:

being the only person willing to do something is no reason to feel duty bound

[14:30:22]

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[14:31:36]

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[14:33:21]

dustybin:

ok got the fonts working, all i need to do now is reduce the size of the OSD text, as the description goes off the edge, im already using the small font but cannot find a way to reduce the size further

[14:33:47]

justinh:

rm -rf blootube-osd

[14:34:19]

dustybin:

justinh: the osd looks nice apart from the font description size

[14:34:38]

justinh:

rm -rf blootube-osd

[14:34:48]

dustybin:

ok..

[14:34:50]

justinh:

svn del blootube-osd

[14:34:56]

dustybin:

oh ok!

[14:35:36]

justinh:

see, this is precisely why I got out. MWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH STUFF IS WRONG!

[14:36:02]

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[14:37:17]

dustybin:

ive removed it, now what?

[14:37:34]

jduggan:

find another

[14:37:35]

jduggan:

;)

[14:37:42]

dustybin:

ohh no :(

[14:37:47]

** dustybin puts it back **

[14:38:23]

justinh:

works fine here (TM)

[14:38:28]

justinh:

NPO !

[14:40:07]

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[14:40:39]

dustybin:

the only other thing, some of the text on mythvideo seems to be floating in the wrong position

[14:40:46]

dustybin:

in the descriptions

[14:41:03]

justinh:

and?

[14:41:07]

justinh:

open a ticket

[14:41:10]

justinh:

take a seat

[14:41:44]

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[14:42:25]

dustybin:

:P

[14:42:55]

justinh:

remind me to change my email address again

[14:42:58]

dustybin:

this theme is a lot nicer than MePo in lots of ways, MePo is nice on the outside, but once you start using it, there are lots of things wrong with it

[14:43:48]

justinh:

no theme can solve the underlying issues

[14:45:04]

justinh:

anyway folks.. have a fab christmas & a happy new year :)

[14:45:09]

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[14:46:12]

GreyFoxx:

I'm suprised there are not more OSD themes. They are simple to make in comparison to the menu themes

[14:50:11]

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[15:12:36]

styelz:

yea it appears simple. after having moded a few

[15:12:44]

styelz:

but havent read any doco

[15:14:40]

styelz:

i guess there is no such tool as a theme editor

[15:14:51]

styelz:

besides your fav. text editor

[15:16:51]

styelz:

hmm, there is one

[15:18:32]

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[15:18:32]

styelz:

or was

[15:20:53]

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[15:21:45]

styelz:

guess i better wait for 0.22

[15:22:07]

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[15:33:10]

directhex:

hm, nvidia atom chipset

[15:33:41]

GreyFoxx:

yeah that could be interesting :)

[15:39:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

wow, a netbook with VDPAU would be the ultimate portable myth frontend... ;-) http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10125087-64.html

[15:45:25]

iamlindoro:

!trout J-e-f-f-A Ultimate Myth Frontend

[15:45:25]

** MythLogBot slaps J-e-f-f-A with a Ultimate Myth Frontend trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[15:45:32]

iamlindoro:

Off limits term!

[15:46:15]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: hehe.. ;-) You left out "portable"... ;-)

[15:46:30]

iamlindoro:

naw, portable is acceptable

[15:46:47]

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[15:46:53]

iamlindoro:

so you can say, "wow, a netbook with VDPAU would be the portable"

[15:47:27]

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[15:47:30]

GreyFoxx:

I wouldn't mind an atom that had VDPAU support. I would find that very useful actually

[15:47:46]

GreyFoxx:

I wanted something to replace my msntv2's that was small and relatively low power

[15:47:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ok, so "Wow, a netbook with VDPAU would make an awesome protable MythTV Frontend!" ;-) Is that better?

[15:47:55]

GreyFoxx:

and that could handle my hdtv playback

[15:48:15]

iamlindoro:

!trout J-e-f-f-A trout trout trout

[15:48:15]

** MythLogBot slaps J-e-f-f-A with a trout trout trout trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[15:48:41]

** J-e-f-f-A rolls around on the floor ... ;-) **

[15:49:18]

dustybin:

is the GeForce 8600M GT what is inside my Macbook Pro capable of VDPAU?

[15:49:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: I didn't say "ultimate" this time! ;-)

[15:49:50]

iamlindoro:

dustybin, yes

[15:49:57]

dustybin:

wow cool

[15:50:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: PS: Lousy weather out here today... an inch or two of 'wintery mix'... Took my boss nearly an hour to get 6 miles to work... ;-( (I worked from home!)

[15:50:45]

high-rez:

Speaking of which, what has been the general opinion on 180.16 ?

[15:51:24]

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[15:51:29]

iamlindoro:

180.16 got my teenage daughter pregnant. Damn you nVidia!

[15:51:43]

high-rez:

Wow, it must pack a punch.

[15:52:35]

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[15:52:42]

iamlindoro:

180.16 is an incremental improvement over .11 and .06, but it does fix bug and generally improve things

[15:53:30]

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[15:53:57]

GreyFoxx:

high-rez: And current trunk requires 180.16

[15:54:08]

GreyFoxx:

and fixes the max reference frame limit

[15:54:11]

high-rez:

I was hoping to see a removal of the reference frame limit in it :(

[15:54:24]

high-rez:

GreyFoxx: I thought that didn't make it in this release ?

[15:54:25]

GreyFoxx:

that has been changed

[15:54:29]

GreyFoxx:

it surely did

[15:54:34]

high-rez:

Woh, fantastic.

[15:54:35]

GreyFoxx:

hence why trunk wont work with older versions

[15:54:42]

GreyFoxx:

it required a VDPAU api change

[15:54:42]

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[15:56:03]

high-rez:

I'm not sure if it's the card or the new drivers, (cause I changed my card to support the new drivers), but when I start X now, my whole machine freezes for a second (e.g. even my ssh session is frozen). Kind of strange, but doesn't appear to be a big problem unless I'm recording something at the time.

[15:57:34]

** high-rez svn ups **

[15:58:35]

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[15:59:09]

jackson__:

viva la VDPAU!

[16:00:11]

dustybin:

its a shame those mac minis dont use geforce gfx

[16:03:37]

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[16:03:45]

dustybin:

even facebook is using memcaches

[16:03:49]

dustybin:

*memcached

[16:03:50]

dustybin:

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=3939 . . . &index=0

[16:06:06]

gbee:

just been through the list of films showing on TV between now and the new year, my mythtv box is probably going to be sitting idle the entire period

[16:06:37]

GreyFoxx:

heh the pickings are getting slim :)

[16:06:39]

dustybin:

gbee: ive even ordered another nova-t 500 :(

[16:07:09]

gbee:

I still haven't become used to the fact that schedulers just ignore anyone above the age of 15, or at least adults without children

[16:07:51]

gbee:

more than half of the films were showing around Christmas when I was a kid too

[16:08:23]

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[16:08:31]

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[16:09:20]

gbee:

no notable 'premieres', nothing I'd consider a must see which I haven't already seen at least once

[16:10:52]

gbee:

guess the cinemas are going to be raking it in this Christmas despite the economy

[16:15:35]

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[16:29:55]

sphery:

Any gentoo users around who want to (or would be willing to) do a couple of simple MySQL tests for me (no GUI required)?

[16:30:10]

high-rez:

... like?

[16:30:18]

sphery:

like check some character set stuff..

[16:30:23]

high-rez:

sure

[16:30:43]

sphery:

first I need you to verify that your mysql was emerged with -latin1

[16:30:59]

high-rez:

let me see

[16:31:23]

** high-rez waits.... **

[16:31:35]

high-rez:

[ebuild U ] dev-db/mysql-5.0.70 [5.0.60-r1] USE="berkdb perl ssl -big-tables -cluster -debug -embedded -extraengine -latin1 -max-idx-128 -minimal (-selinux) -static" 28,024 kB

[16:31:37]

high-rez:

Yessir

[16:31:40]

sphery:

cool

[16:32:10]

sphery:

now, can you connect to mysql and issue status and pastebin the results

[16:32:33]

sphery:

to issue status, I mean just type "status" at the mysql prompt

[16:33:14]

high-rez:

http://pastebin.com/m78c1cbc5

[16:33:41]

sphery:

when you connected to the DB, did you specify a DB name (i.e. mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg)?

[16:33:47]

high-rez:

nope

[16:33:52]

high-rez:

i'll connect to mythconverg

[16:33:53]

high-rez:

one second

[16:34:09]

sphery:

perfect, now can you try it by connecting directly to mythconverg (i.e. not using "use mythconverg"

[16:34:27]

high-rez:

oh now that's interesting

[16:34:28]

high-rez:

...

[16:34:44]

high-rez:

http://pastebin.com/m6949a25e

[16:35:27]

sphery:

OK, and I'm guessing if you just connect (but not to any database) and then do a "use mythconverg;", you get the same output as the second case...

[16:35:35]

high-rez:

let me see

[16:35:44]

sphery:

i.e. all charsets are utf8 except Db characterset

[16:36:15]

high-rez:

http://pastebin.com/m701e15f

[16:36:19]

high-rez:

same results.

[16:36:30]

sphery:

OK, and can you post your my.cnf?

[16:36:44]

high-rez:

sure

[16:36:57]

sphery:

thank you /very/ much for doing this, too.

[16:37:22]

jackson__:

sphery, I also have gentoo, however all the instances that I've done, the Db charset is still utf8

[16:37:42]

high-rez:

http://pastebin.com/m2f38cbc5

[16:37:56]

sphery:

jackson__: that just means that you didn't properly create your mythconverg DB--i.e. you never ran mc.sql--or you're using trunk (I'm guessing high-rez is using -fixes)

[16:38:06]

sphery:

high-rez: -fixes, right?

[16:38:11]

jackson__:

yes, I'm using trunk :)

[16:38:23]

jackson__:

sorry for the confusion.

[16:38:29]

high-rez:

infact, sphery, i have two databases – a fixes one and a trunk one (/var/lib/mysql is a symlink to /var/lib/mysql.good.fixes in this tests was ran)

[16:38:33]

sphery:

no problem... useful to know

[16:38:38]

high-rez:

So yeah, this was against my -fixes db :)

[16:38:42]

sphery:

great

[16:38:50]

sphery:

thank you both for the info

[16:38:58]

high-rez:

Cool beans. Hope it helps. :)

[16:40:34]

sphery:

high-rez: any chance you could do /one/ more test... This time remove all the default-character-set stuff from my.cnf (i.e. comment it) and re-connect to the mythconverg DB

[16:40:47]

sphery:

and check status

[16:40:57]

dustybin:

PC World are selling Nova-T 500 dual tuners for Â£48.92 bit bad!

[16:41:00]

dustybin:

*not

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[16:51:35]

jackson__:

sphery, I did have a -fixes database that when upgrading schema via trunk encountered errors when updating to schema version 1217. I ended up exporting two tables (oldprogram and people), truncated them, ran the schema updates, then imported the table data. I know you've been working on this. You want any databases or logs?

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sphery:

jackson__: thanks, but shouldn't be necessary.

[17:05:05]

sphery:

I have some examples, already

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[18:39:16]

Grypho:

hi everyone

[18:40:17]

Grypho:

sphery: thanks for your help monday evening. after deleting all video input devices and doing all the scan stuff again, tv playback works fine.

[18:40:37]

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[18:42:09]

d0netsFN:

hey how can i uninstall mythtv completely

[18:42:13]

d0netsFN:

including all settings, etc..

[18:42:21]

d0netsFN:

i tried sudo apt-get remove mythtv

[18:42:30]

kormoc:

remove the packages you used to install it and then drop database mythconverg

[18:42:32]

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[18:42:55]

d0netsFN:

whats the command for the lsat thing you said

[18:43:41]

Grypho:

in commandline: mysql -uroot -p <password>, then in mysql commandline: DROP DATABASE mythconverg;

[18:44:35]

Grypho:

btw: if you are trying to uninstall a package with all its settings, try apt-get purge, not remove

[18:44:49]

d0netsFN:

k yea i think thats what i was looking for

[18:44:49]

d0netsFN:

thanks

[18:44:50]

d0netsFN:

much

[18:44:54]

Grypho:

np

[18:46:03]

sphery:

Grypho: glad it worked.

[18:46:04]

d0netsFN:

im gonna try to con my gf into giving me my pvr150 early

[18:46:23]

d0netsFN:

cause i leave for my snowboarding trip jan 1

[18:46:33]

sphery:

or you could go buy another one, then you'll have 2 when you get your present :)

[18:46:36]

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[18:46:45]

d0netsFN:

so i wanna make sure i have all my myth stuff working right by the time i leave

[18:46:50]

d0netsFN:

lol sphery im broke

[18:46:58]

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[18:47:04]

d0netsFN:

fuckin xmas

[18:47:11]

bluepoint:

hi anyone got a Nova-HD-S2 card working on Myth 0.21?? The card is loaded ok – I can scandvb and szap a channel but MythSetup doesn't seem to like it....

[18:48:35]

dustybin:

d0netsFN: cut out the language, this is a family channel

[18:48:45]

gbee:

bluepoint: since the drivers didn't even exist until a couple of months ago, a version of mythtv released 8 months back ain't going to work

[18:51:09]

Grypho:

currently i am trying to set up mythvideo but mythvideo does not find my videos. the only thing i see is a folder symbol with "no files found". the folder containing the videos is readable by anyone (777/666) and in the setup i have configured the folder as "directory that holds videos". any ideas what is missing?

[18:51:20]

d0netsFN:

oh yea

[18:51:23]

d0netsFN:

i forget im on freenode

[18:51:26]

d0netsFN:

sorry

[18:51:27]

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[18:52:37]

bluepoint:

thx gbee – are you aware of myth updates I can apply to fix the issue?

[18:52:42]

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[18:53:58]

gbee:

there is a patch but it might only apply to trunk (which I'm not going to recommend for a production machine) – check out Trac all the same, there might be a 0.21 patch – svn.mythtv.org

[18:54:39]

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[18:54:59]

sphery:

Grypho: if -fixes, did you go to "Manage Videos" (under "Utilities/Settings" in mythfrontend)?

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[18:55:33]

gbee:

bluepoint: you are looking for s2-api related tickets

[18:56:30]

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[18:57:16]

gbee:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5882

[18:57:43]

Grypho:

sphery: that was it, thanks

[18:57:53]

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[18:58:15]

bluepoint:

thx gbee – not use svn before is there a good starting point?

[18:59:45]

sphery:

Grypho: no problem... I am starting to run a tab, though. You'll get the bill in the mail. :)

[19:00:00]

Grypho:

lol

[19:02:37]

dustybin:

anybody have a link what clearly tells one what all those xorg options do?

[19:02:42]

dustybin:

xorg website isnt clear at all

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[19:06:26]

bluepoint:

gbee – apologies this will be a nu-b question – if use the svn stable branch will I get the fixed per ticket 5882 or is that only in trunk?

[19:07:58]

gbee:

bluepoint: that's not really been determined yet, I'd have to check with janneg whether he intends on backporting the s2-api support

[19:09:00]

janneg:

no

[19:09:20]

gbee:

you've just been unlucky in choosing a card (and standard) which requires a whole new driver API, and that new API is, err new so there is an inevitable delay

[19:10:06]

dustybin:

are these all the relevant X11/xorg.conf options when using the closed source nvidia driver:

[19:10:09]

dustybin:

http://http.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux . . . endix-d.html

[19:11:13]

bluepoint:

ok :-( that will teach me to believe other posts... thanks for the clarification..

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[19:11:54]

dustybin:

jesus hell, some of the nvidia xorg options can damage you card o_0

[19:12:03]

dustybin:

whoops take away the h word

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[19:17:31]

bluepoint:

ok – irritating question but I;m debating sending it back while I can – is a new driver a high/low priority item (I'm assuming it is a fair bit of work) – so if it's a month or so away I'd keep or 6–12 away I'll dump it...

[19:18:17]

clever:

dustybin: ive seen stuff before about overclocking the gpu

[19:18:38]

clever:

and they cranked it up to 200% for a moment to show what can go wrong, and the whole screen started to go corrupt

[19:18:54]

dustybin:

clever: http://http.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux . . . endix-d.html

[19:19:00]

dustybin:

search for the word 'damage' on that page

[19:19:04]

clever:

yeah i ctrl+f'ed that fiel for 'damage' :P

[19:19:08]

clever:

before saying what i said

[19:19:30]

clever:

slight overclocking could help vpdau performance

[19:19:34]

clever:

if you keep an eye on the temp

[19:19:44]

clever:

and are willing to risk the thing going up in smoke:P

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[19:20:54]

clever:

bbl

[19:24:24]

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[19:29:37]

** J-e-f-f-A tempted fate overclocking systems back when they cost 3x as much as now... and it never paid off, so I always run 'stock' now... although there weren't 'off-the-shelf' water cooling systems back then... ;-) **

[19:30:28]

clever:

i had overclocked my cpu just a tiny bit a while ago when i added ram

[19:30:32]

clever:

somehow, the hdd failed

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[20:20:21]

sphery:

Only took me about 3 days of work (and a /lot/ of help from janneg) to figure out all I needed to know to understand how/why users are getting corrupt DB's).

[20:22:18]

meshe:

they aren't shutting down mysql correcly?

[20:22:39]

dustybin:

one of the 'users' was called 'clever' ?

[20:24:26]

meshe:

my parents corrupted their myth db multiple times, by flipping the switch on the power bar to shut down their myth box

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[20:25:54]

sphery:

meshe: actually, I meant corrupt data in the DB's--it's due to character set issues (i.e. not configuring MySQL the way it was supposed to be configured--though we never really documented/realized just how important the configuration was)

[20:26:15]

janneg:

this corruption is more subtile, it only manifest after the qt4/utf-8 conversion

[20:26:23]

sphery:

right

[20:26:36]

meshe:

ahhh

[20:27:48]

meshe:

i have done nothing special to my mysql setup, i may be subject to said corruption in the future

[20:28:15]

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[20:30:44]

sphery:

any Fedora or Ubuntu users here who could pastebin the default my.cnf used on systems running mythtv?

[20:30:58]

sphery:

(i.e. distro default)

[20:31:01]

meshe:

i'll post mythbuntu 8.10 for you

[20:33:26]

sphery:

meshe: many thanks

[20:33:33]

meshe:

http://pastebin.ca/1288013

[20:34:39]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I run FC8, not sure if I have the 'default' my.cnf anymore to paste for you...

[20:35:35]

meshe:

what needs to be set?

[20:35:41]

sphery:

meshe: are you pretty certain you haven't modified that one? (If not, 3 cheers for MythBuntu packagers--they did the right thing :)

[20:35:53]

meshe:

haven't touched it

[20:35:55]

sphery:

great

[20:36:02]

laga:

sphery: it should be the default ubuntu one

[20:36:09]

meshe:

that is as-is mythbuntu 8.10

[20:36:33]

sphery:

meshe: can you do one more test and connect to mysql and specify the mythconverg database and then pastebin the output you get from typing: status

[20:36:39]

janneg:

sphery: fedora has no charset in my.cnf and uses latin1 as of status in the mysql client

[20:36:49]

meshe:

I am a mysql DBA, but I haven't had a need to touch that one

[20:36:56]

sphery:

janneg: sweet... sounds like it's only Gentoo that's a mess

[20:37:36]

sphery:

well, of the "big 3", that is... gbee could check Mandriva for us... Don't know about Suse, but I'm guessing it's similar to the Red Hat-based ones

[20:38:14]

sphery:

meshe: by connect and specify mythconverg, I meant: mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg

[20:38:15]

meshe:

http://pastebin.ca/1288015

[20:38:23]

sphery:

(didn't make sense when I re-read it, so...)

[20:38:32]

** meshe repeats "I'm a mysql DBA" ;) **

[20:38:41]

sphery:

meshe: but you figured it out anyway... perfect, and you're good to go

[20:39:01]

sphery:

So, Fedora and Ubuntu are good

[20:39:09]

meshe:

mysql mythconverg -u root

[20:39:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Need anything from me for FC8? (kinda old now, I know..)

[20:39:33]

sphery:

yeah, it was just having the mythconverg DB specified that I was concerned about

[20:39:50]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: I think janneg already checked, but thanks, anyway

[20:39:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

np. ;-)

[20:40:12]

meshe:

set a root db password? bah, not necessary!

[20:42:08]

sphery:

I have mine set to a value that no one (not even me) knows.

[20:42:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I think I remember you asking about 'latin1' previously, and the charsets on mine show 'latin1'... ;-)

[20:42:22]

janneg:

J-e-f-f-A: I don't expect that it would have been changed to latin1 in fedora 10

[20:42:27]

meshe:

sphery: that can be a serious pain

[20:42:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

janneg: hehe... ;-)

[20:42:59]

meshe:

is gentoo overriding the default charset?

[20:43:05]

** J-e-f-f-A knows his root mysql pw... ;-) just doesn't use it often. **

[20:43:07]

sphery:

If I need to access my DB as root, I hack it every time (have a nice little script: http://pastebin.ca/1288029)

[20:43:10]

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[20:43:53]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, latin1 is good (for Myth, at least :)

[20:44:03]

sphery:

really, good for Myth 0.21-fixes and below :)

[20:44:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

that's what I'm running... 0.21-fixes (for now!)

[20:44:29]

meshe:

sphery: how is that any more secure than having a password that you know?

[20:44:30]

janneg:

and not a problem qt4 based trunk

[20:44:33]

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[20:45:14]

sphery:

janneg: So you said the Qt4 MySQL driver always specifies utf8. Does that mean both client and connection are using utf8?

[20:45:58]

janneg:

sphery: I think only connection is important

[20:46:00]

meshe:

the root mysql account on my database server is as secure as someone getting onto my machine, if someone other than me manages that, I've got bigger problems

[20:46:32]

sphery:

meshe: Well, being able to hack a mysql server only requires the ability to start it with --init-file, so the ability to start it makes any security measure useless. Mainly my not knowing it is due to the fact that I've decided hacking it is easy enough that it doesn't warrant a neuron for remembering it. :)

[20:46:50]

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[20:47:15]

sphery:

janneg: but, if the client differs, won't the mysql driver convert before sending over the utf-8 connection (just guessing here)

[20:47:15]

meshe:

lol

[20:47:19]

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[20:48:24]

janneg:

sphery: let me check again what qt4 does

[20:49:54]

sphery:

meshe: now updated to show how I re-secure the server: http://pastebin.ca/1288031 . mkstrpassword is a wrapper around mkpasswd.pl that makes a much stronger password (with random length between 40 and 80 chars and random numbers of different classes of chars). The sed just escapes special chars.

[20:52:12]

janneg:

sphery: // force the communication to be utf8 mysql_set_character_set(d->mysql, "utf8");

[20:52:29]

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[20:53:43]

meshe:

sphery: nice setup, but I kinda prefer to be able to get in and admin my db's without having to restart them

[20:54:08]

sphery:

meshe: yeah, since mine only run my mythconverg DB's, it's never an issue to restart them

[20:54:49]

sphery:

janneg: for those who are on gentoo, re-emerging with latin1 use flag is probably worse than continuing as they've been running for a couple of years, right (then we'd have some broken data and some valid data)

[20:55:07]

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[20:57:37]

janneg:

sphery: yes, if they don't want to start from scratch, they shouldn't change the use flag

[20:57:44]

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[20:57:59]

sphery:

janneg: also, I'm wondering whether http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Utf8_Text_in_OSD was written by a Gentoo user. I'm starting to think the "missed conversions" in -fixes are much less common than users had made me believe.

[20:58:29]

sphery:

I'll bet the only reason the OSD was corrupt on his system was because he was using Gentoo with the utf8 connection...

[21:00:18]

janneg:

sphery: I haven't seen any results of missing conversion just before the qt4 switch

[21:00:34]

janneg:

and 8bit chars are pretty common in german

[21:01:07]

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[21:01:29]

academy:

Could anyone send me a dump of the keybindings table please? I'm trying to reset them to the defaults.

[21:01:50]

janneg:

academy: just delete them after a backup

[21:01:55]

sphery:

Yeah, that's why I was so surpised that so many said it was so bad... I knew you--being one of the devs who does a /lot/ of DB stuff as well as a German speaker--would have fixed whatever issues you found.

[21:01:56]

janneg:

the defaults will be restored

[21:02:34]

academy:

janneg: thanks!

[21:02:43]

sphery:

academy: and when mythbackends and frontends are not running (i.e. stop everything, then backup, then TRUNCATE TABLE keybindings; (and possibly jumppoints table, too), then restart)

[21:02:44]

janneg:

sphery: I can't really speak for the plugins

[21:03:24]

sphery:

nor I--I don't use them much (mainly only MythVideo) and don't really have many non-US characters in there

[21:03:44]

sphery:

academy: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database_Backup_and_Restore for an easy way to backup and (if necessary) restore

[21:06:14]

judazz:

Hi folks, I'm trying to configure mythzmserver to work togheter with zoneminder. I have zoneminder up and running, started mythzmserver and am able to telnet to the backend at port 6548

[21:06:27]

judazz:

I've configured the zoneminder settings on the frontend

[21:06:34]

judazz:

but it doesn't work..:

[21:06:54]

judazz:

uhm

[21:07:03]

judazz:

now it does!

[21:07:09]

judazz:

gees

[21:08:26]

judazz:

(when mythtv says enter IP, enter IP, not hostname, okay...)

[21:08:34]

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[21:11:05]

GlemSom:

is it possible to force an program data update for a specific channel? (using eit)

[21:12:41]

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[21:28:33]

dustybin:

my frontend keeps on quitting at random intervals with latest revision 19391

[21:28:38]

dustybin:

its time to turn on logging

[21:29:00]

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[21:29:31]

** iamlindoro_ punches dustybin in the face **

[21:29:39]

iamlindoro_:

dont run trunk, numbskull

[21:30:47]

dustybin:

its svn fixes

[21:30:58]

dustybin:

revision 19391

[21:31:03]

lbt:

hi – I'm having a problem recording from *some* DVB-S channels. I've been using Myth since 0.18 so I'm OK with it ;) I can 'watch TV' and if I press R that's OK, if I schedule 1 recording it fails; if I schedule 2 the 2nd one is OK

[21:31:07]

iamlindoro_:

And did you rm all your libs before installing the new revision?

[21:31:23]

dustybin:

yes

[21:31:26]

dustybin:

make clean

[21:31:28]

dustybin:

and make distclean

[21:31:44]

iamlindoro_:

That's not it

[21:31:52]

lbt:

version 0.21.20080304–1FWIW

[21:31:56]

iamlindoro_:

did you rm the *installed* libs

[21:32:07]

dustybin:

nope

[21:32:26]

dustybin:

most of the libs are installed via apt-get install

[21:32:31]

dustybin:

i shouldnt need to remove them?

[21:32:58]

iamlindoro_:

Did you install a source-compiled version over a packaged version

[21:33:03]

iamlindoro_:

?

[21:33:27]

dustybin:

i compiled it myself from here

[21:33:32]

dustybin:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/

[21:33:38]

dustybin:

svn co http://svn.mythtv.org/svn/branches/release-0-21-fixes/

[21:33:38]

iamlindoro_:

so why would the libs be installed by package?

[21:33:44]

dustybin:

then svn update before i compile

[21:33:50]

iamlindoro_:

do you have *any* myth packages installed of myth

[21:33:54]

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[21:33:56]

dustybin:

none at all

[21:34:02]

iamlindoro_:

Then pay attention

[21:34:21]

iamlindoro_:

Did you or did you not rm the installed myth libs before installing your new revision

[21:34:54]

dustybin:

no i didnt

[21:35:11]

dustybin:

i expected make clean and make distclean to do that for me

[21:35:50]

iamlindoro_:

Of course it doesn't

[21:36:06]

iamlindoro_:

clean and distclean only affect the source directory

[21:36:09]

dustybin:

ill rm /usr/local/lib/libmyth*

[21:36:15]

dustybin:

oh ok

[21:36:41]

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[21:36:43]

dustybin:

ive never had a problem like this before, i been using svn for ages

[21:37:03]

dustybin:

and mythtv has been stable until today

[21:37:54]

dustybin:

time to re-compile

[21:41:40]

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[21:50:04]

mkrufky:

wow, that was intense, iamlindoro_ ... i dont think i've ever punched someone in the face via irc

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[21:54:04]

iamlindoro_:

mkrufky: I live life at top speed, what can I say

[21:54:20]

mkrufky:

heh

[21:54:24]

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[21:55:26]

** iamlindoro_ sets up a Gmail tag for sphery posts **

[21:55:47]

sphery:

most people have them sorted to /dev/null, I think

[21:55:59]

kormoc:

Help! Help! I'm being repressed! See the violence inherent to the system?!?!

[21:56:00]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: which distro are you?

[21:56:16]

sphery:

kormoc: lol... Now I have to watch that movie, yet again.

[21:56:16]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Ubuntu and Debian at home

[21:56:32]

sphery:

Cool... Debian and Fedora are on my good list.

[21:56:43]

iamlindoro_:

Haha, you're angry at Ubuntu?

[21:56:51]

sphery:

(I'm assuming the Debian stuff is like Ubuntu stuff)

[21:56:57]

iamlindoro_:

Pretty much

[21:57:15]

test1:

hi all , can i watch channels on internet with myth ?

[21:57:16]

sphery:

No, a different (*cough*g*cough) distro

[21:57:35]

iamlindoro_:

test1: Can you give an example of what you consider to be an internet channel?

[21:57:41]

test1:

(i mean web channels)

[21:57:48]

test1:

with url

[21:57:48]

iamlindoro_:

example?

[21:57:55]

test1:

brb

[21:57:55]

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[21:58:16]

iamlindoro_:

don'tsayhuludon'tsayhuludon'tsayhulu

[21:58:49]

sphery:

test1: if you mean watch MythTV LiveTV or recordings, the hard part is getting an Internet connection at home with sufficient sustained throughput and good QOS

[21:59:06]

sphery:

watch MythTV LiveTV or recordings /across the internet/

[21:59:16]

iamlindoro_:

If you mean podcasts from myth frontend-- the answer is "soft of/some"

[21:59:30]

iamlindoro_:

With a healthy dose of "working on it"

[21:59:32]

** sphery thinks "soft of" works better than "sort of" **

[21:59:49]

test1:

example : mms://stream1.france24.yacast.net/f24_livefr

[22:00:06]

sphery:

that you could do with MythStream

[22:00:22]

kormoc:

sphery, don't hate Gentoo... Hate the people *using* Gentoo :P

[22:00:24]

test1:

ok :)

[22:00:25]

sphery:

I like when users ask questions about doing things that are actually possible

[22:00:36]

iamlindoro_:

and you could likely do the old "VLC rebroadcast to IPTV" trick

[22:00:44]

iamlindoro_:

to use it as a channel

[22:00:52]

kormoc:

getting guide data would be fun'

[22:00:59]

sphery:

kormoc: unfortunately, some people using Gentoo are just too darn likeable (and do great work on MythWeb), so I've decided to hate the distro

[22:01:10]

** kormoc laughs **

[22:01:27]

kormoc:

So I take it a fair number of folks running Gentoo disabled the UTF8 flag for mysql?

[22:01:33]

sphery:

yep

[22:01:41]

sphery:

did you compile with latin1 use flag?

[22:02:34]

test1:

sphery: what is mythstream for, exactly ?

[22:02:58]

kormoc:

sphery, Yes, I have +latin1 +perl +ssl

[22:03:00]

iamlindoro_:

It's for breaking UI conventions!

[22:03:26]

iamlindoro_:

I personally think the VLC-to IPTV channel trick would be nicer

[22:03:29]

sphery:

test1: http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~moongies/streamtuned.html (basically, playing back Internet streams).

[22:03:45]

sphery:

kormoc: nice... at least we can say it wasn't /so/ non-obvious that a dev couldn't figure it out :)

[22:03:59]

sphery:

that's a lot of negatives...

[22:04:38]

kormoc:

hrm...

[22:04:47]

kormoc:

the myth ebuilds should require the latin1 flag

[22:04:49]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure all the remaining issues on #5070 are due to Gentoo users who emerged with -latin1.

[22:05:03]

sphery:

do the myth ebuilds bring in mysql?

[22:05:05]

test1:

iamlindoro_: the VLC-to IPTV channel trick ... is supposed to give me channels fromm url in myth frontend ?

[22:05:29]

kormoc:

sphery, not directly, but it won't install without it

[22:05:32]

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[22:05:46]

iamlindoro_:

test1: More or less-- You'd set up a playlist of your iptv channels, and have VLC do the multicast, which myth can then set up as an IPTV "tuner"

[22:05:49]

sphery:

test1: yeah, as just another part of LiveTV (could be recorded, too, but the problem--as kormoc mentioned--is getting guide data)

[22:06:12]

iamlindoro_:

That said, if your broadcasts are also regular TV channels, that should be okay too

[22:06:17]

kormoc:

crap, I was wrong, it doesn't enforce the latin1 flag

[22:06:34]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: also, I think I finally understand why http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Utf8_Text_in_OSD was written--I'm pretty sure it was a Gentoo -latin1 user

[22:06:42]

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[22:06:47]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: I blame anime fans

[22:07:14]

kormoc:

who would remove latin1 support

[22:07:17]

kormoc:

that's... ugh...

[22:07:18]

sphery:

funny thing is that 8-bit chars work fine in my OSD (I never checked before this issue)

[22:07:43]

sphery:

kormoc: it actually doesn't remove it--after /much/ effort we found out it simply sets up my.cnf to specify a default charset for basically everything

[22:07:57]

** kormoc laughs **

[22:08:19]

kormoc:

well, that explains a tad more then, I put my my.cnf as a protected config file, Gentoo isn't allowed to overwrite it

[22:08:47]

sphery:

kormoc: and, unfortunately, if the /server/ default charset is specified, /every/ connection uses that charset--regardless of the database (mythconverg) default charset. The only time the connection uses the database default charset is when you do /not/ specify a server default charset.

[22:08:51]

iamlindoro_:

That's because kormoc is the rare example of what most Gentoo users just *think* they are

[22:09:15]

sphery:

(I actually file behavior that in the "What were the MySQL devs smoking?" bin.)

[22:09:28]

sphery:

s/behavior that/that behavior/

[22:09:34]

kormoc:

yeah... that's annoying

[22:09:37]

iamlindoro_:

Yo momma so dumb she can't compile Exherbo and she uses Gentoo, dayummmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[22:09:56]

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[22:10:01]

sphery:

anyone know where the name of Exherbo came from?

[22:10:24]

sphery:

Guess it's one of those, "If you can't pronounce the distro's name, don't use it," things

[22:10:26]

iamlindoro_:

Well Ex = out of, so I assume it has something to do with their leaving gentoo

[22:10:26]

dustybin:

Dagmar once told me, real men use slackware?

[22:10:52]

meshe:

when installing mysql on a server that's going to be used as a db server ie not a myth server, i usually pull the binaries from mysql.com and avoid the distro versions

[22:11:00]

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[22:11:08]

iamlindoro_:

test1: Is there a directory of other french channels available as mms feeds?

[22:11:19]

meshe:

then i don't have to deal with distro specific configurations

[22:11:29]

kormoc:

If Gentoo actually screws with the ebuilds much, I'll just start maintaining my own

[22:11:43]

sphery:

meshe: based on what I've learned about how configuration can affect every app that uses MySQL, that probably makes sense for a MySQL admin.

[22:11:46]

kormoc:

but it's been rather vanilla so far

[22:12:11]

meshe:

sphery: yeah, i usually write my own configs too

[22:12:34]

meshe:

which end up being about 1/4 of the size of the mythbuntu one

[22:12:45]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: Then we'll see an announcement about "Exkormoc", the new distro that you shouldn't use because, "really, you have nothing to offer"

[22:13:11]

iamlindoro_:

It's not that he doesn't like you, unless he doesn't

[22:13:54]

sphery:

yeah, I'm using the bog-standard mysql-source-distro my-medium.cnf, and performance on my system is orders of magnitude better than some (package) users on the list report

[22:14:51]

tanderson:

let

[22:14:54]

** kormoc laughs **

[22:15:06]

tanderson:

let's not troll distributions now... ;-)

[22:15:40]

tanderson:

I've actually used exherbo and though it has a few rough issues it is progressing quite well

[22:15:43]

meshe:

ok vi vs emacs ;)

[22:15:58]

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[22:15:59]

dustybin:

vim ftw

[22:16:09]

npm:

another mysql configuration people sometimes prefer — for security purposes — is to bind mysqld only to localhost not the eth0: in /etc/this is accomplished in my.cnf, bind_address = 127.0.0.1 ............ is there any situation where mythtv needs to access db remotely, or is it ok to bind mysql to localhost on same box as backend??

[22:16:34]

tanderson:

npm: remote frontends come to mind

[22:16:37]

kormoc:

npm, it's only an issue if/when you have remote frontends

[22:16:43]

kormoc:

npm, but outside of that, it's fine

[22:16:50]

sphery:

tanderson: Actually, I'm /extremely/ thankful for distros and the packages they make available. When someone doesn't care to learn how something works (and, in many cases, why should they?), packages are the way to go. But, packages have to choose a happy middle ground, so they may not be ideal for everything.

[22:16:54]

npm:

so the remote frontends don't let the backend talk to the db?

[22:17:05]

sphery:

s/many cases/most cases/

[22:17:06]

kormoc:

npm, nah, the remote frontends need DB access

[22:17:19]

npm:

ok, that's good to know for when i decide to do that

[22:17:53]

meshe:

i don't think that i would have designed myth that way, i think i would have used something other than direct mysql access for the remote frontend to gather/set configuration data from/to the backend

[22:18:34]

sphery:

meshe: that's the plan, we're just waiting for you to finish the code for mythdataserver

[22:18:36]

npm:

from a security standpoint, it's probably safer

[22:19:22]

meshe:

that's kinda what i'm thinking, probably a custom protocol over a socket

[22:19:36]

kormoc:

if your own internal lan is so insecure that you're worried bout brute forcing mysql passwords... I'd be attempting to fix other things first :P

[22:19:51]

kormoc:

meshe, you can always extend out mythproto to do whatever is missing

[22:19:53]

npm:

yeah, it's a it's not broke so don't fix it item

[22:19:59]

kormoc:

or mythXML

[22:20:03]

npm:

plus, someone will end up forcing it all to go over xml

[22:20:07]

meshe:

having both the frontend and backend sharing the same db makes me wonder where the configuration separation is

[22:20:11]

npm:

and then it would be really much worse

[22:20:23]

kormoc:

meshe, hostname – Key – Value

[22:20:24]

sphery:

meshe: Actually, it /is/ the plan (in spite of my joke about your patch), but the time required is significant enough, it's low on the list. I'm attempting to put some DB maintenance into the backend, then we should move to an embedded mysql DB, /then/ we should move to a separate data server.

[22:20:31]

npm:

kind of like directv's pvr's that talk to different components in the same box via xml :-)

[22:20:47]

test1:

iamlindoro_: im not sure what u asking but,

[22:20:52]

tanderson:

sphery: Oh I know. I like distribution-provided packages too. That's what I do :P

[22:20:57]

panfist:

i am trying to setup mythtv for the first time. i have a hauppauge hvr-1600. i have successfully installed the latest drivers and firmware. when I test the card, I can't seem to tune to any channels. i'm trying to configure the mpeg2 capture card and it says "probed info: failed to open"

[22:21:09]

kormoc:

sphery, When you get closer to the embedded db stuff, let me know, there was some wonkyness I noticed that I should see if I can repeat before we dive too deep into it

[22:21:20]

sphery:

tanderson: which distro? I know some of the Red Hat and Ubuntu packager names, but don't recognize you, yet.

[22:21:21]

npm:

... and therefore spend all their time garbage collecting text strings containing integers...

[22:21:48]

tanderson:

sphery: I don't package mythtv but I'm a gentoo dev

[22:22:07]

iamlindoro_:

test1: I just wondered if there were other french channels via MMS:

[22:22:13]

sphery:

kormoc: I was kind of hoping that I'd get the maintenance stuff in, then GreyFoxx (who actually worked on it some before the Qt4 conversion) would do the embedded DB stuff. :)

[22:22:25]

meshe:

myth obviously works fine using the current system so i can see why it wouldn't be a high priority, just saying that I *probably* wouldn't have done it that way

[22:22:27]

test1:

iamlindoro_: not sure of what u ask .. but i found my urrl here : http://fr.30minutelunchbreak.com/

[22:22:46]

tanderson:

sphery: I amd64 porting and jabber stuff.

[22:22:48]

sphery:

tanderson: cool... I only recognize Doug's nick from gentoo. Now I know another.

[22:22:58]

tanderson:

*I do

[22:23:56]

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[22:23:59]

sphery:

tanderson: and though I was saying I'm hating Gentoo, I really don't. The issue we found only really surfaced because of the character set conversion (or, at least surfaced sufficiently to warrant the time it took to figure out what's happening).

[22:24:19]

iamlindoro_:

test1: Neat! Thanks-- (J'aime la langue franÃ§ais (ma mÃ©re a la nationalitÃ© franÃ§aise) et j'ai habitÃ© a Paris en 2004–5)

[22:24:49]

test1:

lol iamlindoro

[22:24:57]

test1:

so u speak fr :)))))))))

[22:25:24]

iamlindoro_:

Not as well as I used to ;)

[22:25:26]

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[22:26:05]

test1:

damn .. my english is so bad too .that im not suree icanone day see my webchannels ;)

[22:26:19]

tanderson:

sphery: yeah, my comment about distro trolling wasn't about the negative gentoo comments.

[22:26:30]

sphery:

tanderson: and no one really understood the issues well enough to know that the Gentoo default config for mysql was causing problems for Myth (we never really explicitly said that a MySQL server /must/ be configured with a server default charset of latin1 (for DBSchemaVer 1215 and below) or--better--with /no/ specified server default charset

[22:27:24]

sphery:

now we know, so we can tell people, but then again, people shouldn't really just change their broken configs at this point (as it will cause mixed corruption :)

[22:27:56]

tanderson:

latin1 is a USE flag and turned off by default it seems

[22:30:12]

sphery:

yeah, that's what causes problems... It results in a my.cnf that specifies a "[mysqld]\ndefault-character-set=utf8", which means that MySQL drivers convert our UTF8 data (that MySQL is supposed to think is latin1). So, browsing the DB data itself, everything looks good, but in -fixes and below, we were writing UTF8 characters into latin1 columns so multibyte characters should appear in mysql as jibberish (but will then work ...

[22:30:19]

sphery:

... fine in Myth)

[22:32:38]

sphery:

Now that Qt4 MySQL drivers and MySQL (we require MySQL 5.0.15+ for trunk) have good UTF8 support (and the space savings of writing to latin1 columns aren't worth the effort, anymore), we've switched trunk to use utf8 (which will make so much better), but the conversion is causing all sorts of problems because many Gentoo systems had that server default charset specified.

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[22:35:15]

test1:

iamlindoro_: http://fr.wwitv.com/television/73.htm

[22:35:21]

tanderson:

including mine :(

[22:35:38]

tanderson:

sphery: does Doug know about the problems?

[22:37:07]

test1:

ty guys, see u later .. got to study what u toldme about my 'webchannels' bie ty4help

[22:37:13]

iamlindoro_:

test1: Nice, thanks!

[22:37:17]

kormoc:

tanderson, not yet

[22:38:14]

sphery:

tanderson: I haven't seen him in here since we figured it out this afternoon, so probably not. However, changing Gentoo at this point is probably worse, so I'd say keep the defaults as they are.

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[22:39:00]

sphery:

tanderson: we're trying to figure out a good approach to detect the corruption before the conversion, so--in theory--anyone still using -fixes (even with a "bad" mysql configuration) should never see any problems.

[22:39:46]

tanderson:

ok, good to know

[22:39:49]

sphery:

where never = after they upgrade to 0.22 after it's released... They /will/ see problems (i.e. garbage characters) in 0.21-fixes. :)

[22:40:13]

sphery:

if they upgrade to trunk, now, though, they will corrupt their data--likely beyond repair

[22:40:36]

sphery:

(or, as janneg said, such that repairing it for less than $100/hr isn't worthwhile :)

[22:41:02]

tanderson:

haha

[22:42:34]

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[22:43:46]

wagnerrp:

gmail needs to add some sort of proofreader

[22:44:08]

wagnerrp:

(Andrew Close, im looking at you)

[22:44:13]

tanderson:

Has anyone seen signal problems with the in-kernel DVB drivers for the pcHDTV HD-5500 cards? I'm noticing a 10% drop in quality from the out of kernel drivers(from before the 2.6.18 merge) to 2.6.27's drivers.

[22:48:11]

sphery:

hmmmm....

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[22:50:22]

sphery:

tanderson: I noticed a /very/ significant drop (from a range of about 70–90% to about 45–65%) in quality with my HD-3000's that may have corresponded to a kernel upgrade, but I've been wasting my time crawling around the attic and moving my antenna from an easy-to-access-but-not-ideal-for-signal location to a hard-to-access-but-better-for-signal location... Now I'm wondering if just downgrading the kernel would fix it...

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[22:51:06]

tanderson:

sphery: This isn't quit that significant but it's enough to knock out a few channels

[22:51:27]

sphery:

(after moving the antenna, my signal strength was virtually unchanged). I would consider it one of those "no standardization among the values = unimportant values", but I actually see a lot more errors in the stream, now.

[22:52:00]

tanderson:

you mean different signal programs vary in values?

[22:52:10]

sphery:

so, I think it's more than a reporting of values issue

[22:52:38]

tanderson:

well, I'm using the exact same software to report the signal on both boxes

[22:52:44]

sphery:

meaning that different cards/drivers tend to report values differently, so the comparison of signal strength across cards doesn't really make sense

[22:52:45]

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[22:53:21]

tanderson:

same cards

[22:53:30]

tanderson:

well, sorta

[22:53:42]

tanderson:

they aren't the same cards but they were both ordered at the same time

[22:54:08]

sphery:

Right--I'm just saying that because I'm getting more errors, it was a real signal quality decrease, not just that the drivers now report numbers differently. And, the kernel version you mentioned 2.6.18 was right around the version I was last using.

[22:54:32]

sphery:

I may have had 2.6.17 and gone to 2.6.20+ from there

[22:54:37]

tanderson:

ah

[22:54:37]

test1:

iamlindoro_: hey ! i forgot theese tv channels .. this is certainly the most interesting part .. if u can make it work :) >>> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/FreeBox

[22:55:02]

tanderson:

sphery: so it might be the kernel reporting the signal strength?

[22:55:31]

sphery:

tanderson: Now I have to say if you found the issue that's causing the reception problem for me, it makes up for all the time I spent chasing down this data corruption thing that (mainly) only affects gentoo users. :)

[22:55:56]

tanderson:

hahaha

[22:56:12]

sphery:

tanderson: I'm trying to say I /don't/ think the driver is just reporting a different value--I think the driver is actually handling the signal differently, possibly causing issues.

[22:56:21]

tanderson:

ah

[22:56:21]

wagnerrp:

PEBUE

[22:57:54]

sphery:

Unfortunately, I have family coming for the holidays ("to see me" translates to "because Florida is warmer than Illinois"), so I may not get to test an older kernel right away, but it's the first time since I moved the antenna that I've had a possible cause that I could actually do something about.

[22:58:19]

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[22:58:21]

tanderson:

I'm pretty sure it's not the antenna for me because I'm splitting the signal

[22:58:26]

wagnerrp:

there are good and bad places for reception in florida?

[22:58:35]

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[22:58:39]

wagnerrp:

i thought there, everyone had LOS to the transmission towers

[22:59:00]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Snowbirds!!

[22:59:04]

sphery:

good/bad places in my attic (based on the ducting and amount of trusses/etc. to the outside :)

[22:59:38]

iamlindoro_:

I got the dishpointer guy to add a aiming setting for the birds I can see, hee hee

[22:59:52]

tanderson:

I think I'll try the v4l-dvb and see what happens

[23:00:08]

sphery:

The antenna is northeast-by-north-facing, but used to be in the south part of my attic and I moved it to the north part.

[23:01:00]

sphery:

signal didn't change significantly, so it was a waste of about 8hrs of work in a sauna

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[23:05:01]

tanderson:

sphery: I'm compiling v4l-dvb and I'll get back to you on whether that makes any change

[23:07:02]

sphery:

tanderson: thx... I'll likely go to the older kernel (2.6.17, you said) as a first step to see if it makes a difference (unless you confirm that newer stuff works). If I run the old kernel test, I'll let you know what I find once I get a chance to test.

[23:07:29]

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[23:09:59]

tanderson:

sphery: I picked 2.6.17 because the drivers I was using(about 2 years ago this is) had to have devfs still in the kernel

[23:10:38]

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[23:12:42]

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[23:13:00]

hednod:

one of my channels is full of incorrect schedule information. This happened after I turned off EIT.

[23:13:13]

hednod:

I turned EIT back on, ran mythfilldatabase, and restarted mythtv-backend and left it a few days

[23:13:18]

hednod:

but the incorrect schedule remains

[23:13:22]

hednod:

what can i do?

[23:14:10]

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[23:19:32]

tanderson:

sphery: v4l-dvb is giving me a consistent 10% drop

[23:19:37]

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[23:20:21]

sphery:

tanderson: so, it's the same for in-kernel modules with 2.6.2x kernel version and with v4l-dvb?

[23:20:34]

tanderson:

yeah

[23:21:11]

tanderson:

I'll probably end up recording a program to see if the signal lies

[23:21:30]

oobe:

hednod, turn off EIT again the run mythfilldatabase --refresh-all

[23:23:10]

hednod:

oobe: why turn it off again?

[23:23:43]

sphery:

tanderson: cool... I'll (eventually) try out an older kernel. I think I can do so without making too much of a mess.

[23:23:59]

oobe:

maybe EIT is good enough for you

[23:24:03]

oobe:

but i prefer not to use it

[23:24:04]

tanderson:

sphery: I'm going to try to avoid an old kernel

[23:24:14]

tanderson:

sphery: eventually you run into problems

[23:24:21]

hednod:

oobe: the tuner in question is for ATSC, and it works good

[23:24:38]

oobe:

well you might need to flush all guide data

[23:24:52]

oobe:

do you have a grabber that you use

[23:25:10]

oobe:

if yuo havent set one up then that is your problem

[23:25:20]

hednod:

oobe: refresh did it

[23:25:28]

oobe:

cool

[23:25:36]

hednod:

oobe: oobe i use schedulesdirect for my cable

[23:25:48]

oobe:

ok im from australia

[23:25:56]

sphery:

tanderson: yeah, but if it proves a difference, then I can look at the code changes. :)

[23:25:59]

oobe:

so things are a bit different here

[23:26:10]

hednod:

oobe: yes I imagine so. thanks for the help.

[23:26:20]

oobe:

np

[23:27:01]

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[23:27:05]

SpaceBass:

hey folks

[23:27:10]

SpaceBass:

anyone have an HDhomerun?

[23:27:45]

SpaceBass:

trying to figure out why it so more sensitive than my elgato eyetv hybrid ....

[23:27:46]

tanderson:

sphery: I'm not much good at that :-)

[23:28:19]

sphery:

Hey, but you're the idea man... They're a lot harder to find than coders.

[23:30:32]

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[23:31:48]

oobe:

SpaceBass, i dont have a hdhomerun and probably cant help but by sensative you mean?

[23:32:04]

tanderson:

anyway, would you let me know if you make some progress? I plan to migrate this thing over Christmas

[23:32:36]

SpaceBass:

oobe, when I use my Elgato EyeTV USB tuner, I get a signal strength of 90%ish ... when I use the HDhomerun its almost 0... unwatchable

[23:32:51]

SpaceBass:

oobe, same antenna, same cable, etc

[23:33:02]

oobe:

thats strange nope i cant help sorry

[23:33:24]

oobe:

maybe some one else can here or in #linuxtv

[23:33:54]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: Heh... I think (though I haven't confirmed) that a very funny thing happens with http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Utf8_Text_in_OSD ... If you were on Gentoo/some system with a server default charset of utf8 and you followed the instructions on that page, it would /not/ corrupt your database (it actually prevents corruption of "future" data, but corrupts any "old" data--data in the DB at the time you perform ...

[23:34:00]

RyeBrye:

SpaceBass: are you sure you have the right frequency table set in tuning the HDHR?

[23:34:00]

sphery:

... the steps in that page).

[23:34:31]

SpaceBass:

RyeBrye, same tuner application, so I think so

[23:34:32]

oobe:

iamlindoro, have you heard anything new about this scaper for thetvdb.com that you said will be in the next version of mythtv

[23:34:52]

RyeBrye:

SpaceBass: How can you use the same tuner application with HDHR and EyeTV USB?

[23:35:19]

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[23:36:12]

RyeBrye:

SpaceBass: which Elegato Eye tuner is it?

[23:36:29]

iamlindoro_:

oobe: Other than "it will be?" Nope.

[23:36:40]

oobe:

oh ok

[23:36:48]

SpaceBass:

RyeBrye, to test signal strength, I'm using Elgato's EyeTV package – it supports both the Hybrid and HDHR

[23:37:02]

SpaceBass:

RyeBrye, but the results are consistant when I tune wiht myth on the HDHR

[23:37:03]

sphery:

hednod: the incorrect data in your DB is getting in there from mythfilldatabase. You can /only/ use one of EIT or Schedules Direct data. If schedules direct data, make sure your schedules direct lineup is properly configured (at schedules direct website) and that all your channels have proper xmltvid (as specified on the sched direct website).

[23:37:05]

RyeBrye:

SpaceBass: well... are you tuning to a digital channel?

[23:37:10]

SpaceBass:

RyeBrye, yes

[23:37:18]

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[23:37:21]

oobe:

iamlindoro_, i just read a small comment in a thread titled imdb.pl replacement that made a small reference

[23:37:35]

iamlindoro_:

I blae sphery for that reference

[23:37:35]

sphery:

hednod: I'd also recommend http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 (the video sources portion of it)

[23:37:37]

iamlindoro_:

blame

[23:37:46]

hednod:

sphery: i had turned off EIT and run mythfilldatabase, but i guess not using the fresh flag left it partialy stale

[23:38:24]

hednod:

sphery: running refresh fixed the problem immediately

[23:38:56]

hednod:

sphery: i use EIT on my ATSC over the air receiver and scheduledirect on my cable tuner.

[23:39:22]

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[23:39:24]

sphery:

oobe: I made a comment but didn't mention a name so the not-quite-silver Vulpes didn't get pestered too much.

[23:39:27]

SpaceBass:

RyeBrye, most of my frustration is that I live in the metro area...10 miles or less from the Xmitter ... I get every station except for one crystal clear ... and when I test it with the USB tuner, that one comes in perfectly

[23:39:54]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Har har, like anyone will get THAT

[23:40:00]

sphery:

hednod: yeah, I should have said "only one of EIT or schedules direct /per channel/"

[23:40:11]

oobe:

sphery, are you

[23:40:11]

oobe:

[23:40:11]

oobe:

mtdean at thirdcontact

[23:40:16]

oobe:

woops

[23:40:17]

sphery:

yep

[23:41:06]

oobe:

nice is it a script or is it coded into the next version

[23:41:26]

sphery:

it's a script that will likely be called from code coded into the next version

[23:41:39]

oobe:

cause if its a script i would like to test it

[23:41:45]

oobe:

do you know where i could find it

[23:41:56]

sphery:

currently, it's just a script that the author has... He has to clean it up before making it available (i.e. he has shortcuts that made it work for him).

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[23:42:13]

oobe:

as ragetv is somtimes lacking in show descriptions and reject some of my submissions

[23:42:24]

oobe:

ok

[23:42:26]

sphery:

he hasn't really posted it because it was a quick hack proof of concept and he's working on getting it ready for general use

[23:42:35]

iamlindoro_:

But you can amuse yourself with the trailer functionality that's now in... oh wait, no it's not yet. *looks around pointedly*

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[23:42:52]

sphery:

and, none of the support for it exists in Myth, yet (not even in trunk), so ...

[23:43:08]

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[23:43:34]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: or he could play with youtube support that's in... oh, wait.

[23:44:21]

oobe:

its ok im not to fussed

[23:44:21]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Haha, that's currently broken, and the trailer patch is much closer to making it in :)

[23:44:35]

sphery:

broken again? more changes at the tube?

[23:44:53]

sphery:

or just that little segfault thing you were seeing for a while?

[23:44:55]

iamlindoro_:

no, myth changes that haven't been adapted to yet (getText/SetText)

[23:45:01]

sphery:

Oh, yeah.

[23:45:07]

iamlindoro_:

I fixed get/settext, but not the segfaults

[23:45:30]

iamlindoro_:

So my version compiles with trunk, but I can't get the segfaults fixed and have been too bored/busy/frustrated to keep working

[23:45:38]

sphery:

Based on my experience with YouTube videos, in some of them, a segfault would be very welcome

[23:46:01]

sphery:

I am starting to like Hulu more, now, though.

[23:46:32]

sphery:

(even though Flash can't upscale to 1920x1080--at least on Linux x86_64)

[23:46:36]

iamlindoro_:

I'm just going to let Alvaro fix the segfaults, I sent him my changes.

[23:46:42]

sphery:

cool

[23:46:53]

iamlindoro_:

Fixing them means cleaning up a whole bunch of mess I didn't create

[23:47:13]

iamlindoro_:

and I'd rather start on some other new project from scratch where I understand why I did everything

[23:47:27]

sphery:

why is highly overrated...

[23:47:32]

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[23:47:56]

sphery:

On many of the projects I work on (in the real world), I make up reasons for the past developers' why's.

[23:48:15]

iamlindoro_:

Let me put it this way... when I look at MythTube code and I got "What the HELL was he thinking," and it's *me* saying that, that's saying something

[23:48:28]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, home

[23:48:30]

sphery:

Ah, yeah.

[23:48:32]

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[23:48:32]

sphery:

later

[23:49:25]

sphery:

Hmmm... I type "later" and "ks/later/"'s connection fails. Coincidence?

[23:49:48]

clever:

his conn crashed before you said later

[23:50:16]

sphery:

after on my client... wonder what the servers saw.

[23:50:26]

clever:

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[23:50:29]

clever:

17 19:48:32 < sphery> later

[23:50:35]

clever:

fraction of a second of a delay

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[23:52:44]

oobe:

if i say phery will your connection fail

[23:52:52]

janneg:

after here too

[23:52:53]

oobe:

nope guess not

[23:53:00]

oobe:

phery

[23:53:40]

janneg:

I think you have to say hery

[23:53:44]

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sphery:

oobe: good question... Wonder if it's percentage based or always first-2-chars or ....

[23:56:45]

mzb_d800:

how can I debug problems with auto-expire?

[23:56:46]

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[23:57:28]

mzb_d800:

(apart from tail/grep the logs?)

[23:57:46]

clever:

more -v and/or add more VERBOSE's to the code

[23:57:54]

mzb_d800:

yuk

[23:58:06]

clever:

thats what i do when -v doesnt give enough info:P

[23:58:18]

clever:

i made my own -v flag to help:P

[23:58:31]

mzb_d800:

it's not really a matter of "not enough"

[23:58:38]

sphery:

mzb_d800: what specific problems (as it's likely a known thing)?

[23:58:46]

mzb_d800:

ok:

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