Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, December 5th, 2008, 00:00 UTC

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elprespufferfish:

well it works now. who knows why

[00:12:01]

teprrr:

:)

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[00:19:56]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: mainly the UI has changed, so you'd need to use only mythui classes to create a plugin

[00:20:40]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: there were some tutorials on creating plugins posted in the wiki and an updated (early mythui) one on the -dev list, but mythui has changed a lot since even the updated one

[00:22:08]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: so the Plug-in development guide is valid for the new version too?

[00:22:33]

sphery:

the UI stuff is probably woefully out of date

[00:22:49]

sphery:

so it probably needs a lot of updating

[00:23:21]

gregL:

sphery, : i just wanted to let you know i recovered just fine from my database problem the other night. I also took you advice and didn't drop my database and recreate..It seem to be working great..Thanks again.

[00:23:24]

GuLBRRS:

ok, thanks

[00:24:49]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: Im going to create a plugin for fm radio using qt4

[00:25:23]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: is there a way to make it compatible with mythtv 0.21?

[00:25:39]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: is there a way to make it compatible with mythtv 0.21 and 0.22?

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sphery:

GuLBRRS: nope. You'll have to pick 0.21 (which will make the plugin obsolete when 0.22 is released) or current trunk (which should be close to what you'll need when 0.22 is released)

[00:29:18]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: ok, so I need to install the current trunk. Is there a binary version for ubuntu?

[00:29:49]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: Note, also, there are existing plugins that might make for a good starting point. MythStream is a plugin designed to play back streaming media (such as internet radio or internet video). There's an extremely old plugin that would need some serious updating to work with existing Myth called MythFM that was for FM radio. If you take either of those as starting points, it may save time now (and in the case of ...

[00:29:55]

sphery:

... MythStream, others may help with the conversion to 0.22 when 0.22 is released).

[00:30:24]

sphery:

TTBOMK, the latest Ubuntu trunk package is from before the Qt4 change (meaning it's more like 0.21 than like 0.22).

[00:30:32]

sphery:

but I don't use Ubuntu, so I may be wrong.

[00:30:50]

iamlindoro__:

you are not wrong.

[00:30:59]

GuLBRRS:

ok

[00:31:02]

sphery:

(well, at least on that one thing :)

[00:31:24]

GuLBRRS:

mythstream, i'll take a look at that

[00:31:39]

GuLBRRS:

thanks sphery

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[00:31:54]

sphery:

Not trying to discourage you, but it may be more efficient to wait until 0.22 is released before creating a brand-new plugin.

[00:32:20]

GuLBRRS:

hmmm

[00:32:39]

sphery:

If you can work some FM stuff into MythStream, that may be worth doing now (and against 0.21) since it's one of the few 3rd-party plugins that's likely to be converted to work with 0.22.

[00:33:18]

iamlindoro__:

Probably also worth noting that if you ever want it *included* in Myth, then it might be best to avoid MythStream

[00:33:49]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: this plugin development is going to be my "final work" at my college

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[00:34:01]

GuLBRRS:

iamlindoro__: why?

[00:34:05]

sphery:

the hardest part of doing a plugin for FM radio, though, is telling the scheduler what's going on--at least on every capture card I've seen that does TV /and/ FM radio, the same tuner is used for TV and radio, so you'd need to tell mythtv that the capture card is in use and can't be used for recording TV.

[00:34:20]

iamlindoro__:

It'll also need to take into account the fact that ... Dang it

[00:34:23]

iamlindoro__:

yes, what he just said

[00:35:16]

iamlindoro__:

GuLBRRS, Because mythstream a) uses external player apps instead of Myth's and b) breaks all the UI conventions into little pieces and stomps on them

[00:35:36]

sphery:

Actually, I'm pretty sure a /plugin/ that does radio won't ever be included in mythtv upstream (it will always be a 3rd party plugin) because the owner of the project seems to want things better integrated

[00:36:57]

sphery:

part of the reason that MythStream functionality ( iamlindoro__ explained why the plugin itself isn't in there) isn't yet in Myth is because the owner wanted it to be just another "channel" to watch/listen to rather than a separate thing (i.e. for audio stuff integrated into MythMusic and video integrated into MythVideo or mythfrontend or ...)

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sphery:

iamlindoro__: Got any ideas for good plugins for GuLBRRS to work on? :)

[00:38:13]

iamlindoro__:

I don't have any good ideas, I have to steal all mine from others

[00:38:23]

GuLBRRS:

heheh

[00:38:53]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: your way is easier, too, since the "other" wrote the initial plugin and you just spent time cleaning it up and enhancing it :)

[00:39:14]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, In my defense, trailers was all my own work ;)

[00:39:23]

iamlindoro__:

no stealing on that one

[00:39:35]

sphery:

true

[00:40:05]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: out of curiosity, where in the world are you?

[00:40:26]

sphery:

just wondering because FM radio here (in the US) is 40min of commercials + 20min of content each hour

[00:40:36]

Dagmar:

Not quite

[00:40:41]

Dagmar:

THere's always talk radio.

[00:40:49]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: Brazil

[00:40:50]

Dagmar:

23 hours of conservative bullshit per day

[00:40:53]

sphery:

OK, NPR is different

[00:41:04]

Dagmar:

NPR is liberal.

[00:41:11]

Dagmar:

...and moderate

[00:41:20]

sphery:

but commercial OTA seems to be all ads

[00:41:53]

sphery:

I don't do talk radio of any persuasion, though, so there may be some commercial talk radio that gets its money other ways.

[00:42:42]

Dagmar:

We've a station here that does talk radio, and I'm banned from calling two of their hosts.

[00:42:52]

Dagmar:

...because I ask pointed questions they don't want asked.

[00:43:08]

Dagmar:

Conservatives are too easy to troll.

[00:43:48]

GuLBRRS:

we dont have this kind of thing here.... there is a lot of music at the radio

[00:44:00]

sphery:

Dagmar: lol, I can just imagine your calls, too.

[00:44:22]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: Cool. I was just curious since I find FM radio to be worthless, here.

[00:44:32]

GuLBRRS:

ok

[00:45:08]

kormoc_:

Even XM radio has at least 5 minutes of 'thanking sponsors' per half an hour

[00:45:12]

Dagmar:

sphery: Let's just say I am not merciful on those who would do talk radio and who lack forensic debate discipline.

[00:45:32]

kormoc_:

'Commercial free! But we just want to thank the sponsors by playing their advertisement'

[00:45:35]

GuLBRRS:

and I want to create this plugin because this is going to be my final work in college

[00:46:05]

GuLBRRS:

then I going to be an engineer

[00:46:07]

sphery:

for creating an FM radio plugin for a school project, you could do either the 0.21-based approach or the 0.22-based approach. It's possible to convert from the old approach (the one in the plugin development guide) to the new mythui stuff-- gbee has done it for several of the "official" plugins and all will be done eventually. It's not /that/ much work, so you could just use 0.21 and the old UI code.

[00:46:07]

GuLBRRS:

:)

[00:46:46]

sphery:

kormoc_: yeah, and--is it just me or does XM sound very flat (like overly compressed or something)?

[00:47:09]

Dagmar:

GuLBRRS: By all means write one if you're going to write one, just know that it won't likely be accepted as part of the main package. You'd do better to work out how to make the system handle non-video (i.e., audio-only) recordings properly to free the way to doing FM radio as a tuning source

[00:47:38]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: http://mythextra.napsi.net/mythFM.html was current in MythTV 0.18, so it needs some updating, but if nothing else it would be a great place to find "lessons learned"... :)

[00:47:42]

kormoc_:

sphery, meh, it's not /too/ bad here, but I typically only listened to 'Old Time Radio Dramas' and 'Sonic Theatre'

[00:48:08]

iamlindoro__:

I have a feeling Sirius/XM may have serious problems ahead

[00:48:15]

sphery:

yeah, I don't see quality of 'Old Time Radio Dramas' sounding worse than it would on any other source :)

[00:48:23]

Dagmar:

sphery: Some Xm channels get more bandwidth than others, like one would expecct

[00:48:46]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: yeah, I'm guessing far more people are likely to give up satellite radio in hard economic conditions than "necessities" like cable TV :)

[00:48:46]

kormoc_:

ugh

[00:48:53]

kormoc_:

the hundred sports channels

[00:49:10]

kormoc_:

iamlindoro__, after this merger, I can agree, they seem to have taken the worse of both and shoved it over

[00:49:16]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro__: Because the industries controlling broadcast radio are finally getting around to putting the squeeze on Sirius/XM and making them follow the same rules that are the very reason broadcast FM radio sucks ass

[00:49:28]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: it isnt school... college

[00:49:53]

sphery:

sorry, I used to call college school, so I was speaking of it in the general term

[00:49:57]

kormoc_:

GuLBRRS, in the US, school covers all levels, from grade school to college, a school is just a place that people learn in

[00:50:05]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_/ sphery / Dagmar, yeah, I just keep reading about how they're losing subs like they're going out of style

[00:50:27]

GuLBRRS:

kormoc_: i didnt know that

[00:50:36]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro__: Well, the monthly costs were supposed to have _gone down_ by now since the infrastructure is in place

[00:50:44]

kormoc_:

They got rid of my favorite channels, they took some of the ok channels and now they're only on the air half the time, and the rest of the time, it's just playing, 'This channel is currently off the air, it will be back soon'

[00:50:46]

GuLBRRS:

sphery: thats ok...

[00:50:57]

kormoc_:

ugh

[00:51:00]

iamlindoro__:

Would be interesting to see, if they *did* go into Chapter 11, if a sat TV company would pick them up for the bandwidth

[00:51:06]

kormoc_:

and they renumbered channels on me weekly

[00:51:32]

Dagmar:

They're going to have to make it cheaper, period, and do something to make monopolists stop screwing with units that record

[00:51:56]

kormoc_:

I just wish I could do ala'cart

[00:52:12]

sphery:

kormoc_: it also seems like in their effort to have "well-defined" channels, the content is so limited that it repeats every few hours. I mean, sure, I like <insert genre here>, but a little slightly-off-genre variety is nice, too.

[00:52:21]

kormoc_:

yeah

[00:52:30]

Dagmar:

sphery: That's the monopolists.

[00:52:43]

Dagmar:

Basically, once you hook up with them, they control what you play.

[00:52:54]

kormoc_:

Dagmar, well, some of the channels only have 6 hours of content per week, that's excessive

[00:53:02]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: so could a satellite TV company use their satellites for the bandwidth?

[00:53:07]

Dagmar:

kormoc_: That's about par for broadcast FM, dude.

[00:53:15]

sphery:

i.e. is it just a "dumb" bouncer?

[00:53:19]

Dagmar:

kormoc_: I'm not kidding in the least

[00:53:45]

Dagmar:

Basically, a station's "programming director" gets to call the genre and that's about it..

[00:53:56]

Dagmar:

If you're a "Rock" station you're not allowed to play "Country" songs.

[00:54:04]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, It's an interesting idea-- Sirius is more or less DVB radio, and unlike Dish the satellites aren't geostationary, they're in an elliptical orbit-- might enable people like me without the right sightline to get Satellite TV

[00:54:23]

Dagmar:

If you play a given artist's song, you can play no more than two more songs by them in the next hour (might be two hours, can't remember)

[00:54:35]

sphery:

I find it amazing how every once in a while a broadcast radio station is one genre when you go to bed and something completely different the next morning (happened to me twice around here with stations I liked)

[00:54:37]

Dagmar:

You can't play two songs from the same CD within an hour of each other.

[00:54:49]

Dagmar:

You can't play songs which are _off catalog_, i.e., out of print.

[00:55:07]

Dagmar:

You *must* play from a list they supply you.

[00:55:17]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, I just wish Dish would put up a sat that wasn't over more or less Texas... Hawaii would be perfect

[00:55:30]

Dagmar:

Like, there's just an absurd number of rules to be followed unless youre doing college radio.

[00:55:34]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, And would vastly improve who could get subs out west here

[00:55:43]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: Cool. I think, also, that the ground-based repeaters would make for some interesting possibilities (though I'm not smart enough to dream any of them up)

[00:56:01]

Dagmar:

...and basically, the reason commercial FM stations suck is because their programming is essentially a big advert for racord labels.

[00:56:24]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: so what direction do your dishes need to point for DISH? Southeast? That's so backwards...

[00:56:34]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, SE for me, yeah

[00:56:46]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, more or less straight at the equator south of texas

[00:57:26]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, and I have a beautiful SWern view :(

[00:57:35]

kormoc_:

huh

[00:57:44]

kormoc_:

I'm pointed SW for mine, and I'm in Seattle

[00:57:54]

kormoc_:

well, SSW

[00:57:58]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: Wow... I never fully thought that through, but it completely explains why I got so confused when traveling in Dallas--where I happened to be right next to a residential area--and comparing the DISH network dish aim to the sun indicated differing cardinal directions

[00:58:05]

Dagmar:

One of hte things coutnry fans were all over XM and Sirius about when they started was that the country channels played CRAPTONS of Willie Nelson and Jonny Cash that *could not* be played on commercial FM radio anymroe

[00:58:46]

sphery:

why can't it be played on commercial FM?

[00:58:53]

sphery:

too "ist"?

[00:59:14]

kormoc_:

sphery, 'out of print'

[00:59:17]

Dagmar:

Because they're off-catalog.

[00:59:18]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, There's a *slight* correction westward because of magnetic fields, but not enough to matter for me

[00:59:25]

sphery:

oh

[00:59:51]

Dagmar:

Basically, if you can't reasonably buy it in a store, playing it on the air would be a waste of airtime for things the labels could otherwise get you to buy

[01:00:08]

iamlindoro__:

http://www.dishpointer.com/?PHPSESSID=aee54a8 . . . ellite=-110#

[01:00:14]

sphery:

Wow. You're right. That's completely annoying.

[01:00:18]

iamlindoro__:

I don't know if that link will translate, but that's the line of sight I'd need

[01:00:28]

kormoc_:

Which is why pressing cds on demand is a great idea...

[01:00:33]

Dagmar:

I did seven years of college radio

[01:00:58]

Dagmar:

kormoc_: Except monopolists are intolerant of change

[01:01:31]

Dagmar:

More than once I had someone courting me to intern at their station, and the answer was alsways "nothanks, I'll be keeping my soul"

[01:01:32]

kormoc_:

iamlindoro__, the direction that points for my house is impossible with where the dish is mounted

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Dagmar:

kormoc_: There's a book publisher that hangs out at my coffee house I've decided is going to get an ass chewing for being a coward next time I see him

[01:02:19]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, any chance you're not using those three sats? (ie I *think* they have one at 145?)

[01:02:41]

iamlindoro__:

Yeah, there we go, Echostar 1 at 148

[01:02:42]

kormoc_:

iamlindoro__, well, I'm on dish and I'm not seeing them on that list...

[01:02:57]

sphery:

kormoc_: do your CD's-on-demand thing and you'll get some nice lawsuit like the RedBox/Universal lawsuit

[01:03:00]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, All the way at the bottom, by dish type (ie 1000.2)

[01:03:47]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: I wish they had an "antenna pointer" website like that.

[01:04:03]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, There is, *sorta*

[01:04:12]

kormoc_:

iamlindoro__, so my dish is mounted on the west side of my house, on the north corner, facing south, south west, none of those options align with where it is

[01:04:21]

sphery:

I've seen antennaweb, but it doesn't have the nice aerial photo

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iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, weird, I dunno, I'm no expert

[01:04:48]

sphery:

(which I need to figure out if the new non-emergency hospital is in my line of sight)

[01:05:12]

RyeBrye:

if antenna web had an easy API I'd build an app on Android to help point your antenna

[01:06:11]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, I'll try to dig it up, it's sorta an inverse pointer-- It shows a map that looks a bit like UV and shows signal strength emanating from the towers

[01:06:21]

sphery:

cool.

[01:08:12]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, If I *could* get dish from here it'd make me really happy, but Ithink it'd take losing firewire to push me to find out

[01:08:44]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: was it http://tvfool.com/ ?

[01:09:27]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, yeah, that looks like it, guess you knew about it

[01:09:54]

sphery:

jp ab q just told me about it last month, but I haven't figured it out, yet.

[01:10:59]

sphery:

Background color: Green: An indoor "set-top" antenna is probably sufficient to pick up these channels

[01:11:09]

sphery:

so, why am I getting 50% on all channels, now?

[01:11:24]

sphery:

Can the tuner in my card go bad after about 2 years of use?

[01:11:38]

iamlindoro__:

At least you get any :(

[01:11:45]

iamlindoro__:

I live in a giant TV suckhole

[01:12:05]

sphery:

yeah, but I haven't been able to figure out how to get it back to my 80+% that I had last winter...

[01:12:13]

iamlindoro__:

I don't even have any *yellow*

[01:12:22]

kormoc_:

iamlindoro__, I donno, I just know that it's most certainly pointed not in any directions they indicate and I get a signal :)

[01:12:25]

iamlindoro__:

I have red, grey, and suck it

[01:12:58]

iamlindoro__:

kormoc_, ATM it's tough to give up firewire, even if the signal is a bit *meh* sometimes

[01:13:24]

sphery:

which background are we talking about? The one in the radar screen or the one in the table?

[01:13:44]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, "yes"

[01:14:08]

iamlindoro__:

my *closest* signal is in the pink-to-almost-grey zone on the table

[01:14:34]

sphery:

they're different... In the table, 29 is green, but in the radar thing it's purple...

[01:14:46]

iamlindoro__:

See above, I clarified

[01:14:47]

sphery:

I think it means the one in the radar thing is important

[01:15:20]

iamlindoro__:

Legend indicates " These channels are very weak and will most likely require extreme measures to try and pick them up"

[01:15:37]

iamlindoro__:

and line of sight limits my extreme measures

[01:16:59]

Dagmar:

"You will probably need to stick at least three sausages on your rabbit ears to pick these up."

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[01:17:29]

sphery:

My noise margin is >40 on all useful channels, I have an antenna in my attic and a 4-way splitter. I should get these without issue.

[01:17:57]

sphery:

Maybe I'll just buy another capture card and see if it gets better reception (meaning my old ones are "burning out"?)

[01:18:24]

riddlebox:

I am using a pinnacle 800i, and I can view live tv just fine, but when I record something on it, its all fuzz?

[01:19:47]

Dagmar:

Get it off Animal Planet

[01:20:16]

hadees:

i just build trunk and got this error "mythfronend: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/lib/libmythlivemedia-0.22.so.0: undefined symbol: _ZNK13MP3FileSource13getAttributesEv"

[01:20:37]

iamlindoro__:

make distclean

[01:20:50]

Dagmar:

hadees: Same answer as with all undefined symbol problems. *Clean out the stale objects from your source tree.*

[01:21:03]

iamlindoro__:

"Good news: The next driver release will fix the H.264 reference frame limits. We will support level 4.1 (or very close to it) in all cases[1]. The decision of how many reference frames to actually allocate is up to the client application (a minor VDPAU API change). We'll naturally release updated MPlayer patches to go with this change."

[01:21:05]

iamlindoro__:

YAY!

[01:21:27]

iamlindoro__:

That'll fix.. erm... well, lots of things

[01:21:39]

Dagmar:

hadees: You might also need to nuke what you have already installed from /usr/local/lib depending on how your linker is set up, but it's more likely that you need to make distclean

[01:22:21]

hadees:

Dagmar, what about make uninstall first? will that nuke /usr/local/lib? or do you mean go in delete the libs

[01:22:34]

riddlebox:

sphery, one tuner on my pvr-500 just stopped working

[01:22:44]

Dagmar:

hadees: Whatever works for you

[01:22:55]

Dagmar:

I don't "do" uninstall problems.

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[01:23:04]

Dagmar:

I tell people to make proper packages that can be cleanly installed.

[01:23:09]

Dagmar:

Everything else is a crude hack.

[01:23:33]

sphery:

hadees: make uninstall would likely uninstall libmyth*0.22*, which won't clean out libmyth*0.21*

[01:23:38]

GuLBRRS:

is it possible to install 2 versions of mythtv??

[01:23:49]

Dagmar:

GuLBRRS: FOr people that know what they're doing, sure.

[01:23:57]

sphery:

rm -r /usr/local/lib/libmyth* /usr/local/lib/mythtv/plugins

[01:24:02]

Dagmar:

If you have to ask, you don't fall into that category.

[01:24:07]

iamlindoro__:

in practice it's *much* easier to have two computers

[01:24:08]

sphery:

GuLBRRS: definitely not recommended

[01:24:11]

hadees:

sphery, will old libmyth*0.21* get in the way of 22?

[01:24:18]

iamlindoro__:

hadees, yes, very much so

[01:24:19]

sphery:

hadees: yep

[01:24:26]

GuLBRRS:

hmmm

[01:24:28]

iamlindoro__:

well, only if you consider random segfautls getting in the way

[01:24:36]

iamlindoro__:

s/segfautls/segfaults/

[01:25:04]

dustybin:

cant one create a mini chroot system for another mythtv version?

[01:25:27]

sphery:

dustybin / GuLBRRS : the binaries aren't the problem, it's the database and data that is

[01:25:31]

Dagmar:

Only if one is being influenced by mercury poisoning.

[01:25:59]

dustybin:

:P

[01:26:01]

riddlebox:

anyone have any ideas why I can view live tv just fine, but when the tuner records its all static?

[01:26:03]

Dagmar:

I'm serious.

[01:26:16]

hadees:

Dagmar, i would use a package but i'm using 2 HD-PVRs

[01:26:24]

sphery:

back to Chuck (and Yvonne Strahovski)

[01:26:24]

hadees:

i thinki got rid of all the old libs

[01:26:30]

Dagmar:

dustybin: What's that got to do with it?

[01:26:40]

sphery:

ok, one last answer

[01:26:40]

riddlebox:

I have done whats described here,http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Pinnacle . . . _Card_(800i) but it didnt work

[01:26:42]

iamlindoro__:

<-- loves Yvonne Stralghdlhglhsldflh

[01:26:44]

dustybin:

whats what?

[01:26:56]

Dagmar:

sphery: Is that that Fulcrum chick?

[01:27:10]

sphery:

she's the good girl fighting fulcrum

[01:27:13]

iamlindoro__:

It's the good guy chick

[01:27:27]

sphery:

lol "good /guy/ chick"

[01:27:30]

Dagmar:

Oh the Blonde of Deliciousness

[01:27:36]

iamlindoro__:

The future ex Mrs. iamlindoro

[01:28:19]

sphery:

riddlebox: likely the static is because you're recording from the analog inputs for the recording, but you're using the digital inputs for the LiveTV,

[01:28:30]

sphery:

riddlebox: anything connected to your analog inputs?

[01:29:07]

dustybin:

Jenna Fischer

[01:29:11]

dustybin:

ftw

[01:29:22]

Dagmar:

dustybin: I think your problem is you read "use" when I typed "make"

[01:29:33]

riddlebox:

sphery, I have the coax hooked up to it, and nothing on the digital inputs

[01:29:33]

dustybin:

?

[01:30:09]

Dagmar:

erk. s/dusybin/hadees/

[01:30:17]

Dagmar:

It's well past time for my evening cigarette

[01:30:18]

sphery:

riddlebox: then it's probably just a problem with either a) channels/channel changing or b) recording profiles (I'd start with b)

[01:30:50]

dustybin:

Dagmar: just make sure it isnt the herbal sort...

[01:30:58]

riddlebox:

sphery, really, what about the recording profiles should I be looking for?

[01:31:15]

sphery:

whatever differs between the LiveTV one and the one that you used to record

[01:31:26]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Considering that without cigarettes there's not much difference between me and the average homocidal mania, the herbal kind would work just as well

[01:31:46]

dustybin:

heh

[01:31:48]

Dagmar:

Like I tell people, it's very simple... Smoking cigarettes is more socially acceptable than killing a bunch of wankerrs.

[01:32:04]

dustybin:

:-S

[01:32:15]

Dagmar:

...and I mean a *bunch*

[01:32:21]

Dagmar:

We're talking dozens.

[01:32:23]

dustybin:

Dagmar: i can imagine justinh saying the same thing :-S

[01:32:38]

hadees:

you don't need --enable-proc-opt on a dedicated backend right or do you?

[01:33:00]

sphery:

you should probably use it

[01:33:18]

iamlindoro__:

hadees, Do you have a compelling reason *not* to want it?

[01:33:54]

Dagmar:

THe autodetection code may or may not screw you

[01:33:56]

hadees:

iamlindoro__, not really, i just wasn't sure if it did anything to help since ./configure says you should turn it on for watching

[01:34:00]

hadees:

HDTV

[01:34:05]

dustybin:

--enable-large-hole works pretty well on my backend

[01:34:09]

** dustybin goes **

[01:34:22]

Dagmar:

Examine the compiler output CAREFULLY in the parts where it's building the ffmpeg/libavcodec stuff

[01:34:25]

iamlindoro__:

hadees, You pretty much want it in almost all cases

[01:34:59]

Dagmar:

If you specify more than just --cpu in addition to that option, it's really likely to screw you

[01:35:17]

Dagmar:

People see that "

[01:35:28]

Dagmar:

People see that "proc opt" and tend to go all Gentoo ricer which fails

[01:35:37]

sphery:

and, really, you shouldn't specify any of cpu/march/tune when you specify it

[01:35:54]

sphery:

Dagmar: exactly

[01:37:04]

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[01:39:15]

hednod:

is mythv 0.21 still qt3 only?

[01:39:20]

kormoc_:

yes

[01:39:57]

high-rez:

trunks qt4 based ui really does look very nice.

[01:41:21]

** kormoc_ blinks **

[01:41:28]

hednod:

not concerned about the ui just concerned about the qt3 bug that causes things like mythfilldatabase to segfault

[01:41:51]

high-rez:

i didnt think filldb was even an x program...

[01:42:07]

iamlindoro__:

qt4 doesn't change the UI, just so's ya know

[01:42:27]

kormoc_:

hednod, are you sure it's a qt3 bug? my filldatabase segfaulted on -trunk for the past few months

[01:42:27]

hednod:

high-rez: it's not, but look http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-dev/2007-October/057962.html

[01:42:28]

high-rez:

lindoro: Ohh? I thought the cute checkboxes were a QT4 thing. :)

[01:43:04]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, pretty much all the UI is thanks to gbee's MythUI code

[01:43:26]

high-rez:

well he deserves a pat on the back from the improvements.

[01:43:37]

iamlindoro__:

Indeed he does

[01:43:55]

iamlindoro__:

and maybe a few beer-of-the-month club subs

[01:44:53]

whodat:

are there any screenshots of the new ui

[01:45:23]

iamlindoro__:

whodat, the UI is all in code, it (mostly) is not implemented in themes yet-- lots of new functionality, no themes written yet to use it

[01:45:51]

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[01:46:06]

iamlindoro__:

but think reflections, animations, widgets usable in any screen, video previews, etc.

[01:46:42]

whodat:

iamlindoro__: yeah i knew of the new stuff coming, just wondered if there was anything to visible see yet.

[01:47:05]

hednod:

can anyone tell me what mythv is doing when this is repeating in the log: http://pastebin.com/m12db5b6b

[01:47:16]

iamlindoro__:

whodat, not really

[01:47:18]

hadees:

iamlindoro__, what kind of widgets?

[01:47:38]

hednod:

my hd light will flash for hours at a time with just that repeating in the log over and over. it does it all day long sometimes, and its mythtv backend doing all the io (i've seen it in iotop)

[01:48:00]

iamlindoro__:

hadees, video playback, still previews, that kind of thing

[01:48:21]

sphery:

hednod: what were you doing when it reported that in the log? scanning channels, trying to record, trying to watch livetv, ???

[01:48:29]

iamlindoro__:

gbee is the master of that stuff, I know a bit of what he's done and got planned, but he could tell you what all the widgets will be

[01:48:52]

sphery:

hednod: nvm... you just answered. So, I'd guess it's EIT, which you probably want to disable ("on-air guide")

[01:49:24]

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[01:49:44]

hednod:

sphery: why would i want to disable it? why is it doing it so often?

[01:51:01]

sphery:

hednod: EIT is the on-air guide. Since you're in the US, I'm assuming you're using Schedules Direct to get your guide listings, which is a good idea because is <insert non-existent word that indicates greater-than-infinite times> better than EIT in the US.

[01:51:28]

riddlebox:

sphery, its weird I deleted both tuners and added them and setup a recording on the tuner and it is working correctly now

[01:52:14]

sphery:

hednod: the Qt3 bug is specifically in Qt 3.3.8. There are patches available (and most or all? distros should have the patches applied)

[01:52:55]

sphery:

riddlebox: probably was the input connections configuration, then . Glad it's working

[01:53:27]

riddlebox:

sphery, still sucks that i had 3 tuners before this and now I am down to 2

[01:53:43]

sphery:

before what?

[01:54:11]

sphery:

because you had a PVR-500 and replaced it with the pinnacle?

[01:54:57]

riddlebox:

sphery, no I had a pvr-500 and a pinnacle, both worked fine for some time, but now since I upgraded ubuntu only the pinnacle and 1 tuner on the pvr500 works

[01:54:57]

hednod:

sphery: i have qt 3.3.8 installed, latest version, but the bug continues. I found 3.3.8b however that was masked, so I am going to try that one out.

[01:54:59]

sphery:

hednod: and it's doing it so often because if using EIT, it needs to constantly tune channels so it can see if they have any updated listings data (which is most likely a no in the US)

[01:55:15]

sphery:

hednod: that's likely the one with the patch

[01:55:28]

sphery:

I take it from your mention of "masked", you're using Gentoo

[01:55:34]

hednod:

exactly

[01:55:39]

hednod:

3.3.8-r4 is what i have now

[01:55:50]

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[01:55:58]

hednod:

3.3.8b is masked ~amd64

[01:57:04]

sphery:

hednod: if all else fails, since you're compiling yourself, anyway: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/259725#259725

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[01:58:00]

hednod:

sphery: thanks

[01:58:17]

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[01:59:12]

hednod:

sphery: i woudl think that something like EIT scanning, if it has to happen so often, would not need to be written to the HD but to memory.. only writing to disk if the schedule actually changes. but then again, i would also expect mythtranscode to abort if it runs out of space... instead of running for 24 hours strait until it perminantly damaged sectors on my disk =p

[02:00:41]

sphery:

EIT data is written to the DB, so MySQL writes to the disk so it's not lost (after all, in some countries, they get 2 weeks worth of guide data over EIT).

[02:01:12]

hednod:

then why isn't mysql the process that is showing up in iotop?

[02:01:28]

sphery:

And, mythtranscode should get an error from the I/O subsystem if there's no more space, which would cause mythtranscode to error and (likely) die

[02:01:52]

hednod:

sphery: apparently its not, because it just keeps going if the file system is full. forever.

[02:02:20]

sphery:

probably mythbackend is doing a /lot/ more I/O on the capture card device than MySQL is doing writing to the filesystem

[02:02:45]

sphery:

but it's also possible something else is happening--I really can't tell from the log snippet you've given

[02:03:16]

hednod:

sphery: see, your not understanding me. when i look at iotop, mythbackend is writing to the *disks*. small, little writes. near constantly.

[02:03:24]

sphery:

hednod: what exactly do you mean by "keeps going"? keeps doing what? It obviously can't write because the hard drive won't let it because there's no room

[02:03:26]

hednod:

wait... i bet i know what it is... its all the little log writes that mythbackend is backing

[02:03:36]

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[02:03:44]

hednod:

sphery: it continues to trash the hard drive, trying to write, despite it being full. it does this until I kill it.

[02:03:50]

sphery:

yeah, if it's churning out those messages, they're going to the log

[02:04:07]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure if it did that someone would have reported it by now.

[02:04:11]

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[02:04:34]

sphery:

I think something else killed the sectors on your HDD (after all, Myth never touched the disk--only the kernel/modules have access to hardware)

[02:05:02]

sphery:

Myth just tells the libs to write data, then the libs talk to the kernel, which uses modules...

[02:05:41]

sphery:

but, if I'm wrong and you can make a reproducable test case, a bug report is welcomed

[02:06:49]

hednod:

sphery: mythtranscode ran for ~24 hours after the disk filled up. and i'm fairly certain the disk was trashing heavily the entire time as the few times that day i was near the PC it was constantly going.

[02:07:23]

hednod:

sphery: when i checked iotop, before killing the processes, it was mythtranscode creating the I/O

[02:08:04]

hednod:

sphery: i've reproducted it many times but i resolved it by giving mythtv 136GB to play with. ;)

[02:08:11]

hednod:

sphery: maybe its some interaction specific to XFS

[02:11:45]

hednod:

sphery: i bumped up syslog's "sync" setting to 100 lines... should tone down the disk writes

[02:12:05]

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[02:13:09]

fuxxy:

grr, my network UPS decided to bite the dust.

[02:13:49]

hednod:

fuxxy: thankfully the last one that died on my let me know ahead of time. (so hot to the touch I burned my fingers)

[02:14:35]

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[02:15:23]

fuxxy:

Stupid Question – I want to record and keep the two newest episodes of a program, based on air date. I chose "Record at any time on this channel, and under "Storage Options", I chose "keep at most two episoded, and Delete oldest if this would exceed max episodes.

[02:15:39]

fuxxy:

This will behave as I expect it to, correct?

[02:15:47]

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[02:16:12]

Dagmar:

Yep

[02:16:25]

Dagmar:

I have a lot of them set up like that

[02:16:46]

Dagmar:

10 episodes of twilight zone, 8 of Outer Limits, 10 Daily Show, etc etc

[02:17:14]

hadeees:

can you set it up to default that way for new recordings?

[02:17:23]

Dagmar:

Not that I'm aware of

[02:17:34]

fuxxy:

Dagmar: I'm just worried, because in "Upcoming Recordings", it has pretty much every upcoming episode highlited, even the ones that aired before the newest in the list (it hasn't recorded the first episode yet)

[02:17:41]

Dagmar:

It's a bit easier to do through MythWeb since all the stuff is just right there on one browser pane

[02:17:45]

hadeees:

i always switch it to delete oldest if this would exceed max

[02:18:08]

Dagmar:

fuxxy: Yeah, it'll record them all one by one, deleting old ones as it goes

[02:18:17]

fuxxy:

Dagmar: but the "delete oldest" is based on original air date, or by recorded date?

[02:18:22]

Dagmar:

recorded date

[02:18:26]

fuxxy:

ahh.

[02:18:31]

fuxxy:

I want original air date.

[02:18:38]

Dagmar:

No such luck there

[02:18:39]

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[02:18:41]

fuxxy:

to keep the two newest, and skip reruns.

[02:18:49]

fuxxy:

hrm.

[02:19:04]

hadeees:

fuxxy, you might be able to do that through the advanced recording rules, to have it just record new ones

[02:19:18]

Dagmar:

iirc there's a way to tell it to ignore reruns but I don't bother with those menus anymore

[02:22:49]

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[02:23:16]

fuxxy:

hadeees: according to google "Yes, you can set a recording schedule to inactive, but you may be

[02:23:19]

fuxxy:

better served by setting the filter to new only and letting the

[02:23:22]

fuxxy:

scheduler do its mojo. "

[02:23:46]

fuxxy:

So now I need to figure out where recording filters are set

[02:23:59]

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[02:30:12]

fuxxy:

hmm, how do I keep from recording reruns...?

[02:30:25]

Dagmar:

Tell it not to, basically.

[02:32:26]

iamlindoro__:

Filter: Exclude repeats

[02:33:14]

iamlindoro__:

Gosh, if only there was a manual with this sort of information

[02:33:20]

sphery:

and, if you don't want generics, Exclude unidentified episodes

[02:33:25]

Dagmar:

Oooo

[02:34:01]

sphery:

Since I've posted it to the list like 5 times in the last week... http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html

[02:34:43]

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[02:34:51]

sphery:

Of course, I post a link to a Fishing HOWTO, then someone e-mails a partially correct fish afterwards

[02:35:10]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: see, I'm looking for the Filters, and I havent found the specific filter that has that as an option.

[02:35:32]

iamlindoro__:

So don't schedule with the frontend, that's for suckas

[02:35:36]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: and I am in the manual as well.

[02:35:41]

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[02:35:42]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: ahh, that's the trick :)

[02:36:00]

sphery:

frontend is better, though, because it always works right. :)

[02:36:06]

Dagmar:

sphery: So long as they're not mailing you gigantic squids

[02:36:13]

sphery:

no offense to an moc's or ris's

[02:36:29]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, alternative has never failed me

[02:36:45]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: alternative?

[02:36:58]

iamlindoro__:

web interface

[02:37:08]

iamlindoro__:

<--- Is really going out of his way not to set off any highlights

[02:38:07]

sphery:

Dagmar: true... I didn't sent the sendmail 'confNO_GIANT_SQUIDS' define, so I'm sure that would kill my server

[02:38:26]

Dagmar:

...and freak out the SO.

[02:38:40]

sphery:

iamlindoro__: and I appreciate your not doing so (with my comment)

[02:38:44]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: oh, I see now :) and I also found your recording filters, awesome, only the two newest aired episodes.

[02:39:02]

sphery:

it's not bad and current seems to work great, but there have been times

[02:39:17]

iamlindoro__:

yes, the filters are quite handy-- can't remember the last time I scheduled in the frontend, but it's certainly been multiple years

[02:39:46]

fuxxy:

iamlindoro__: that must explain why there's so many options available in mythweb that aren't available in the frontend :)

[02:39:58]

sphery:

For simple schedules, I always use the web, but for anything complex, I always use mfe

[02:40:00]

iamlindoro__:

fuxxy, now you've done it..

[02:40:06]

iamlindoro__:

but anyway, everything there is in the frontend

[02:40:28]

sphery:

i'll admit it's harder to find in frontend (because it's not all on screen at the same time), but it is there

[02:40:49]

fuxxy:

hrm. I need to keep reading.

[02:40:57]

iamlindoro__:

Scheduling Options->Look for duplicates blah blah...

[02:41:09]

iamlindoro__:

the filter equivalents are there

[02:41:42]

sphery:

anyone know how to ask google maps to draw a line at 325deg?

[02:42:52]

iamlindoro__:

Say please?

[02:42:57]

sphery:

lol

[02:43:01]

Dagmar:

Okay.

[02:43:10]

Dagmar:

This is going to sound condescending but...

[02:43:18]

Dagmar:

HAVE YOU ASKED GOOGLE, YET?

[02:43:39]

sphery:

yeah, should have done that first

[02:43:48]

sphery:

sorting through all the answers

[02:44:29]

sphery:

all I can find is how to draw your own lines... If I knew where 325deg is, I could draw it, but then I wouldn't need the line

[02:44:46]

Dagmar:

It'll take lat & long for markers

[02:45:26]

sphery:

trying to use it to see if anything's blocking my line of sight to tv transmitters

[02:47:10]

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[02:47:46]

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[02:49:25]

high-rez:

Hmm. I've been having problems scanning channels with trunk. It doesn't seem to ever pass diseqc commands...

[02:50:45]

Anduin:

sphery: there are files with fcc transmitter location that will import in to google earth

[02:53:39]

sphery:

Anduin: Cool. Just assuming that a straight line to the top of the image would be 360deg, it looks like I shouldn't have any obstructions at 325deg, but actual FCC transmitter location information would be much better.

[02:53:49]

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[02:53:50]

sphery:

Guess I have to find a Windows box to try that.

[02:54:01]

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[02:55:05]

LanUser:

Hello – is there a way to use nuvexport or another exporter, to export HD content intact but use the cut list?

[02:55:55]

hadeees:

i'm still getting "2008-12–04 20:51:35.130 NVP::AddAudioData():p1: Audio buffer overflow, audio data lost! 2008-12–04 20:51:35.141 [libfaad @ 0x2ada2a04e460]faac: frame decoding failed: Unable to find ADTS syncword" with trunk and the patches i found on the wiki, Someone suggested before that i switch over to AC3 but i'm not sure how to do that.

[02:59:22]

Dagmar:

LanUser: "Lossless" transocding option

[03:02:39]

LanUser:

Dagmar: I don't see that in nuvexport, is there a startup switch? The only mention of lossless on the wiki is "

[03:02:43]

LanUser:

This option has been removed since lossless MPEG2 cutting was added to MythTV itself. "

[03:03:17]

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[03:04:28]

fuxxy:

I enabled xvmc on my system and am using it to watch HD content. However, when the OSD pops up, my sound vanishes and the video gets real slow until the OSD goes away, then everything back to normal

[03:05:04]

sphery:

LanUser: I think he means with mythtranscode, built into Myth (don't use nuvexport)

[03:05:15]

sphery:

though I've heard it doesn't really like some HDTV that's out there

[03:09:58]

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[03:11:08]

LanUser:

sphery: ah, thanks

[03:15:02]

hadeees:

can anyone help me with my audio buffer problem?

[03:18:06]

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[03:20:41]

sphery:

hadeees: trunk or -fixes?

[03:21:02]

hadeees:

sphery, trunk

[03:21:10]

sphery:

vdpaus or no?

[03:21:16]

sphery:

vdpau that is

[03:21:18]

hadeees:

with some patches i got off the wiki for HD-PVR

[03:21:36]

sphery:

which patches?

[03:22:09]

hadeees:

sphery, http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008 . . . /235030.html

[03:22:30]

hadeees:

no vdpau

[03:23:25]

sphery:

hmmm... then I don't know. I think trunk without any special patches is pretty solid for HD-PVR, right now, though, so perhaps try without that patch.

[03:23:45]

sphery:

iamlindoro__ knows the HD-PVR status better than I, though

[03:24:09]

hadeees:

sphery, the problem is with the sound, looks like AAC, i think iamlindoro__ was the one who told me to try AC3 but i don't know how to set that up

[03:24:34]

sphery:

that's a whole other complicated issue that's very sound-card dependent

[03:24:48]

sphery:

did he tell you to use those patches, though?

[03:24:52]

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[03:24:59]

hadeees:

sphery, yeah a while ago

[03:25:05]

hadeees:

not for this problem

[03:25:17]

iamlindoro__:

Not directly... I *did* write the wiki, though

[03:25:30]

sphery:

oh, so the wiki says to use them

[03:25:32]

sphery:

got it.

[03:25:44]

iamlindoro__:

Anyway, those patches shouldn't cause any problems. AC3 should be as simple as choosing the SPDIF input in the capture card setup and connecting optical from a STB outputting AC3

[03:25:47]

sphery:

I really don't know anything about HD-PVR use, so...

[03:26:12]

sphery:

oh, I thought he meant S/PDIF out from the Myth box

[03:26:14]

iamlindoro__:

sphery, Those patches just prevent backend crashes on resolution change and set it to prefer AC3 where it exists

[03:26:35]

iamlindoro__:

I stopped using AAC with the HD-PVR when AC3 capture became possible

[03:26:47]

hadeees:

the problem with using AC3 though is i have two boxes, doesn't that require two soundcards for the input then?

[03:27:04]

** iamlindoro__ blinks confusedly **

[03:27:06]

iamlindoro__:

huh?

[03:27:31]

iamlindoro__:

AC3 input goes into the HD-PVR... Never even toouches your sound card

[03:27:46]

iamlindoro__:

Those optical ports that say "SPDIF IN" on the back aren't for decoration ya know

[03:28:37]

hadeees:

iamlindoro__, ah well apparently i'm an idiot, i'll go try that

[03:29:05]

** iamlindoro__ murmurs something about following the dev and commit lists more closely **

[03:29:46]

hadeees:

i've been following the trac ticket

[03:29:47]

iamlindoro__:

technically if you're reading -dev and -commits close enough you shouldn't need the wiki (or me) to know this stuff...

[03:30:01]

iamlindoro__:

hadeees, You mean the locked trac ticket?

[03:30:17]

iamlindoro__:

that has since been replaced by one or two others as noted on -commits?

[03:30:51]

iamlindoro__:

Yeah. You're *not allowed* to run trunk if you're not reading all of -dev and -commits.

[03:31:01]

high-rez:

iamlin: Hey – know anything about dvb and diseqc? I think it's broken in trunk – not sure how to test it though...

[03:31:15]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, I know a bit about DVB and nothing about diseqc

[03:31:37]

high-rez:

My clean checkout of fixes yields happy diseqc switching, but in trunk when I scan it never seems to send the diseqc commands to my switch.

[03:32:11]

iamlindoro__:

You'd be best served by asking one of the folks who uses DVB-S regularly (as I don't use it at all)

[03:32:23]

iamlindoro__:

Just don't have an answer for you, sorry

[03:32:56]

high-rez:

No worries. Any suggestions on who the dvb-s pros are? Or more importantly, how to get good debug info from mythtv-setup (for dvb)?

[03:33:53]

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[03:34:09]

iamlindoro__:

I believe gbee and one or two others use DVB-S for freesat, don't know if they need to switch for it, though. Most of the DVB-S users are in Europe so asking during the early day for the US would be the best time

[03:34:37]

iamlindoro__:

(or early evening if you're in the EU)

[03:35:25]

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[03:37:44]

high-rez:

Yeah, I may be one of the only dorks in the US using it for feeds and free internationals :)

[03:45:35]

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[04:10:09]

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[04:10:44]

larzen:

Folks.. are there any examples on how to automatically turn mpeg->mp4 (h.264) ...

[04:10:55]

larzen:

I am looking to transcode right on the fly if possible

[04:11:32]

iamlindoro__:

no way to transcode on the fly with myth. You can set a user job to run afterwards and transcode with whatever you like, though

[04:11:55]

larzen:

iamlindoro__ – where would i enter the command? or any help on this?

[04:12:03]

larzen:

with examples of course.. (references would be nice ;)

[04:12:05]

iamlindoro__:

look up "user jobs" in the wiki

[04:13:21]

larzen:

iamlindoro__ – so this fires up right after recording is complete -right?

[04:13:30]

iamlindoro__:

If you tell it to do so

[04:14:06]

iamlindoro__:

You can set user jobs to run on a recording rule... edit the rule, activate the job for that rule

[04:16:57]

xris:

anyone know how to trigger a full EIT scan?

[04:17:17]

sphery:

truncate program and restart the backend? :)

[04:17:44]

xris:

sphery: just got an hdhomerun

[04:17:49]

sphery:

(that was not meant to be taken seriously--I don't know what I'm talking about)

[04:17:51]

xris:

maybe I have no EIT data...

[04:18:08]

sphery:

I don't get much of anything--I think just now/next

[04:18:14]

sphery:

pretty sure that's all the FCC requires

[04:18:31]

xris:

blech. going to be a pain to connect these up to xmltvid stations, then

[04:18:32]

iamlindoro__:

and probably less/none on Cable

[04:18:51]

iamlindoro__:

xris, Do you get PSIP?

[04:18:54]

xris:

not loading channel callsigns, either.. which is annoying?

[04:18:55]

xris:

iamlindoro__: ??

[04:19:04]

iamlindoro__:

That's what you just asked :)

[04:19:06]

iamlindoro__:

er said

[04:19:15]

iamlindoro__:

PSIP = 78#1 becomes 2–1 KTVU

[04:19:20]

iamlindoro__:

etc.

[04:19:38]

sphery:

xris: I'm pretty sure silicondust has something on their website that shows channels/xmltvid

[04:19:55]

sphery:

I'd bet it's easy to transform into some nice SQL statements to do updates

[04:19:57]

iamlindoro__:

Yeah, if you get good PSIP data you can usually fill a lot of them in by assigning the local broadcast lineup to it, and then filling in the blanks with XMLTVids, but in adsence of that... yucky

[04:20:15]

iamlindoro__:

s/adsence/absence/

[04:20:27]

xris:

sphery: it doesn't line up with what I see

[04:20:42]

sphery:

http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels

[04:21:16]

xris:

oh, wait.. maybe I do. they're sorted funny in mythtv

[04:21:49]

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[04:21:56]

sphery:

some of the ones they show for me would require either omnidirectional antennae or pointing the antenna the wrong way :)

[04:22:21]

sphery:

(and I think an omni would have a hard time picking up those "wrong way" channels because they're such low power)

[04:22:37]

sphery:

it's also not showing a bunch of the good ones that I do get

[04:22:46]

xris:

I don't get anything with an antenna here.. behind a big hill.

[04:22:58]

xris:

anyway, I need to stop playing and go back to painting...

[04:23:05]

sphery:

we don't have hills in FL--just a big sand bar :)

[04:24:00]

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[04:55:31]

Lexridge:

Would an HD-PVR allow me to watch "live tv" via the component inputs using mythtv?

[04:56:17]

Lexridge:

or is it "record" only?

[04:57:32]

high-rez:

Wow, vdpau++

[04:57:57]

high-rez:

Only complaint is the tearing :(

[04:57:58]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: Silly question, man. Think about it a moment and you'll know the answer

[04:58:59]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, If you're using trunk, I'm guessing you *must* be following the dev and commits lists, you so should know better than to mention the tearing

[04:59:26]

GreyFoxx:

I've yet to see any tearing thankfully

[04:59:36]

Lexridge:

dagmar: well, not having one, and not being sure exactly how it works with myth, I'd assume it streams to the backend HDD regardless of whether mythtv is recording or not. Right?

[04:59:55]

Dagmar:

You betcha

[05:00:05]

Dagmar:

Ah wait, I thought you had this running already. Just a sec

[05:00:21]

iamlindoro__:

Erm. No. It is not streaming at all times.

[05:00:26]

Lexridge:

okay, just wanted to clear up any misconceptions before purchasing one.

[05:00:30]

Lexridge:

oh?

[05:00:41]

Dagmar:

I was assuming he meant "regardless of if yer watching"

[05:00:45]

iamlindoro__:

Of course not. Do *any* capture devices with myth stream at all times?

[05:00:47]

Dagmar:

Read this http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview

[05:00:55]

iamlindoro__:

No. they do not.

[05:01:01]

Dagmar:

That'll let you understand how the various pieces fit together.

[05:01:31]

Dagmar:

The only thing that would keep you from playing back anything while it's recording (which is all that LiveTV is) is whether or not your machine can actually play it back at all

[05:02:14]

Lexridge:

Does it autosense whether or not the input is HD or SD?

[05:02:26]

Dagmar:

it basically doesn't matter, so there's no need to even try

[05:02:31]

xris:

hmm, yeah. I get way more channels on qam64 than silicondust shows for my zipcode.

[05:02:35]

Lexridge:

or is everything perceived to be HD?

[05:02:46]

Dagmar:

Everything is "percieved" to be "a stream"

[05:02:53]

Lexridge:

okay, that makes sense

[05:02:53]

sphery:

xris: I wonder if it's user contributed info...

[05:03:20]

Lexridge:

dagmar: thanks for the interesting link BTW.

[05:03:24]

Dagmar:

About the only time it cares about anything specific is if you're using a framegrabber, and that's because it really has to work hard to record those

[05:03:34]

high-rez:

iamlin: I'm following dev – not commits. I'll scan them for more info. :)

[05:04:15]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: Yeah it took me like two full evenings to get it running the first time, and I have a ludcrously high IQ and experience. I figured if I broke it down so that people could "see" how it works on the inside, that clue uptake would drop to about two hours for most people

[05:04:38]

Lexridge:

good point!

[05:04:40]

Dagmar:

Like, most of the delay was me figuring out how it was supposed to work

[05:04:56]

Lexridge:

yea, that makes sense.

[05:05:04]

Dagmar:

Now that I've got that I can pretty much make it all go from scratch without docs

[05:05:13]

xris:

sphery: I never had any doubt of that.

[05:05:24]

sphery:

wonder how to contribute, then

[05:05:24]

** xris can't wait for SD to be able to host its own channel info. **

[05:05:25]

Dagmar:

...which is kind of the knowledge level you *want* to be at when setting something new up.

[05:05:32]

sphery:

that will be nice

[05:05:35]

** xris wishes more developers would apply to help design/build said system. **

[05:06:21]

Lexridge:

dagmar: exactly! I have a friend who is installing F8 with Mythtv for the first time tonight. He is so lost and so hard headed. He has called me like 20 times this evening!!

[05:06:27]

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[05:06:36]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: Dude, give him that URL

[05:06:40]

Lexridge:

I will

[05:06:47]

Dagmar:

If he's got prior Linux experience, that'll save him a crapton of time

[05:07:11]

high-rez:

iamlin: I actually just scanned commits and don't see anything about the tearing...

[05:07:40]

Lexridge:

yea, he has used linux for at least 10 years, so he'll understand it. Plus, he's a sql database expert

[05:07:50]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, You're looking for the wrong terms. "No vsync."

[05:07:53]

Lexridge:

He just has really bad luck on new installs :)

[05:08:20]

Lexridge:

Tonight, he lost a 120GB HDD and a power supply, in about an hour. DOH!!

[05:09:04]

Lexridge:

I've been trying to get him to try mythtv for about a year, and he finally bit the bullet and bought a HVR1600 card today.

[05:09:31]

Dagmar:

Hmm... PSU probably took out the HD.

[05:09:39]

Lexridge:

that was my thought

[05:09:59]

high-rez:

Hmmf. I don't know i just looked at commits and dev and don't see anything with vsync in the title. I'll look thrugh trac.

[05:10:39]

high-rez:

19240 :)

[05:10:47]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, It's not in titles. The lack of vsync has been extensively discussed here, in the VDPAU patch readme, on the dev list, and in commit messages as recent as today.

[05:11:03]

Lexridge:

dagmar: I suggested he compile mythtv from source, but opted to go with RPMs. I think he will have problems going this route. We'll see.

[05:12:07]

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[05:12:09]

sphery:

packages are always a better choice if you're not adding any custom patches/doing development

[05:13:04]

high-rez:

iamlin: What nvidia driver are you using? I found the 180.11 enabled my 256mb card to work.

[05:13:06]

Lexridge:

except for the slower updates compared to svn

[05:13:36]

sphery:

but there aren't many updates in -fixes

[05:14:13]

Lexridge:

really? I've built several over the past 6 months, but never really see any differences. Just under the hood stuff I'd assume.

[05:14:22]

sphery:

And, I went for 8 months without updating any of my 5 -fixes running boxes in my production systems

[05:14:29]

iamlindoro__:

high-rez, The driver doesn't matter, that 256 MB card will work for some thing right now, and under some conditions, but not with the highest bitrate, highest resolution stuff except under certain conditions.

[05:15:10]

sphery:

and if it's the second Tuesday of the month, but only in months that have a blue moon

[05:15:18]

high-rez:

iamlin: ahh. well so far so good for me.

[05:15:22]

Lexridge:

sphery: well, then he may be just fine with it.

[05:15:57]

sphery:

Yeah, packages make Myth something you use. Source generally makes Myth something you maintain. :)

[05:16:25]

Lexridge:

I orginally installed with the atrpms repo, and what a freaking nightmare that turned out to be! I reinstalled and did it all from source after that.

[05:16:38]

Lexridge:

so far, so good :)

[05:16:41]

sphery:

basically, you get the benefit of all the countless hours that the packagers spending trying to figure out what they need to know about what changed in Myth and how to make it work with the rest of the distro :)

[05:17:16]

Lexridge:

my biggest problem was I didn't want to use the mythtv user account. Hoops galore, but finally got it.

[05:17:26]

sphery:

A moment of thanks to all the great packagers out there: Axel, j-rod, superm1, laga , etc.

[05:17:34]

Lexridge:

here here!!

[05:17:44]

Lexridge:

a toast to them indeed!

[05:18:11]

hadeees:

i hooked up some SPDIF cable to my HDPVRs and switched the tuners to use SPDIF but it still isn't working, faac is complaining about "Bitstream value not allowed by specification" then there is an audio buffer overflow and then faac complaining about "Invalid number of channels", that just keeps repeating, here is a sample of the output http://pastie.org/331601

[05:18:47]

hadeees:

if i can mythtv to work again i'm not going to update it till the offical .22 comes out

[05:19:18]

sphery:

You could always roll back to your pre-trunk backup and reinstall -fixes :)

[05:19:38]

hadeees:

sphery, does fixes have HDPVR support?

[05:19:43]

wagnerrp:

no

[05:19:48]

Dagmar:

do you hate audio sync that much?

[05:21:02]

hadeees:

Dagmar, huh?

[05:21:50]

Lexridge:

oh, so the hd-pvr is only supported under trunk?

[05:21:56]

wagnerrp:

correct

[05:21:59]

high-rez:

wow fantastic, vsync did the trick.

[05:22:14]

Lexridge:

humm. that throws a wrench into the works.

[05:22:26]

wagnerrp:

just means you have to run trunk

[05:22:43]

Lexridge:

on both backend and frontends, I'd assume

[05:22:51]

wagnerrp:

correct

[05:22:51]

hadeees:

they have to always be the same version

[05:23:16]

hadeees:

Lexridge, even if you run trunk you have to make sure you have the same revision

[05:23:26]

Lexridge:

what qt version is required to compile trunk?

[05:23:30]

wagnerrp:

4

[05:23:40]

Lexridge:

any 4, or 4.x

[05:23:50]

sphery:

4.3+

[05:23:53]

Lexridge:

okay

[05:23:58]

sphery:

4.4 if you want MythBrowser

[05:24:09]

Lexridge:

wow, cutting edge stuff!

[05:24:19]

Lexridge:

or....bleeding edge that is

[05:25:05]

Lexridge:

I would have to revamp a lot of stuff here to do that. hell, I'm still on FC6 on my main frontend, and FC8 on my backend.

[05:25:39]

hadeees:

did i miss an HDPVR patch, i have been going back through the commits and dev lists but i don't see anything that would explain my audio errors

[05:26:14]

Lexridge:

is the hd-pvr supported under v4l, or just mythtv trunk?

[05:27:51]

Lexridge:

I'd assume it would have to be supported under v4l before myth can even see it, correct?

[05:29:19]

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[05:29:32]

Lexridge:

dagmar: are you using kde 4 by any chance? If so, how is it?

[05:29:53]

Dagmar:

I don't muck about with dev releases

[05:30:05]

Dagmar:

I wouldn't use Qt anywhere if it weren't for MythTV.

[05:30:25]

Dagmar:

I'll be using 3.x for as long as Myth reasonably supports it

[05:31:08]

Lexridge:

so you just have enough of qt4 to make it work under kde 3. Perhaps that should be my thinking as well.

[05:32:25]

Lexridge:

I've been trying Fedora 10 under VirtualBox, but so far, I hate it!!!

[05:32:34]

Lexridge:

I hate KDE 4 that is

[05:32:40]

Dagmar:

I have exactly zero amounts of Qt4.

[05:33:18]

Lexridge:

dagmar: sorry, I thought you were running trunk. I guess not. Sorry.

[05:34:18]

Lexridge:

The only reason so far I've got qt4.1 installed is because I use Qtractor for multi-track recording.

[05:36:19]

sphery:

"installed MythTV in UBUNTU by Twinhan DVB-S" on -users list???

[05:37:09]

Dagmar:

Nope. qt-3.3.8-i686–2mythtv and mythtv-svn18089-k8–1mythtv at the moment.

[05:37:20]

Dagmar:

I run -fixes, not -trunk.

[05:37:23]

Dagmar:

Life's too short.

[05:37:33]

Lexridge:

same here, so far. :)

[05:37:45]

hadeees:

i'd be running fixes too if only it had hdpvr

[05:37:48]

sphery:

yep, my production systems are on -fixes, and will probably remain on -fixes from here out

[05:38:15]

Lexridge:

maybe a hd-pvr is NOT in my future. :(

[05:39:14]

hadeees:

Lexridge, a hdpvr should be in everyones future, when it worked it was great

[05:39:55]

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[05:40:19]

Lexridge:

I'm sure it is, but trunk doesn't seem too appealing ATM.

[05:40:45]

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[05:40:45]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[05:41:19]

hadeees:

tell me about it which is why if i can get this to work i'm not updating again till .22 comes out

[05:42:00]

Lexridge:

lol

[05:42:07]

hadeees:

oh well this is what i get for wanting to watch DiscoveryHD

[05:43:19]

Lexridge:

I'm watching a great old movie ATM, anyone ever seen West World from 1973. Awesome!!!

[05:43:50]

Lexridge:

actually, it should be Westworld I'd guess.

[05:44:48]

Dagmar:

Yul.

[05:44:55]

Lexridge:

It stars Yul Brenner. Funny thing, I watched the sequel FutureWorld first, with Peter Fonda. So far, both are quite good for old time SciFi

[05:45:25]

Dagmar:

<-- knows his scifi

[05:45:29]

Lexridge:

lol

[05:45:36]

Lexridge:

yup! It would seem so

[05:46:17]

Lexridge:

dagmar: have you seen the star trek fan series, New Voyages yet? Quite good actually, and has episodes with original star trek stars.

[05:46:40]

Dagmar:

I saw enough actual Star Trek to last me, thanks

[05:46:47]

Dagmar:

<-- not a trekkie

[05:47:17]

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[05:47:23]

Lexridge:

lol, you should check it out nonetheless. The effects are quite good, the acting...so so.

[05:48:10]

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[05:48:21]

Lexridge:

I just wish JJ Abrahms was not directing the latest star trek incarnation. We'll see how that goes.

[05:48:41]

RyeBrye:

Yeah, his charm has rubbed off on me

[05:48:53]

Dagmar:

It'll be fine as long as they've had whoever picked the f**king power ballad from Enterprise brutally murdered.

[05:48:56]

RyeBrye:

I will never forgive him for the last two seasons of Alias

[05:49:18]

Lexridge:

dagmar: lol!!!!!

[05:49:20]

Dagmar:

There's one and only one musician's work that should ever be used for Star Trek themees

[05:50:21]

Lexridge:

who would that be?

[05:50:43]

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[05:50:47]

Lexridge:

Alexander Courage?

[05:51:27]

ynn:

anyone have any experience setting up xbmcmythtv?

[05:51:33]

Lexridge:

oh, the movie guy...WTH was his name...shit, I should know that...but cannot remember

[05:51:42]

Dagmar:

We don't have sex with goats either.

[05:51:54]

Lexridge:

we hope not!

[05:52:30]

Lexridge:

dagmar: what kind of scifi do you like?

[05:52:56]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: most of it

[05:53:02]

Dagmar:

...and occult horror

[05:53:12]

ynn:

I've got xbmcmythtv installed but it fails to connect to the server mysql or otherwise

[05:53:23]

Lexridge:

oh, so you're a damien omen fan

[05:53:46]

Dagmar:

Nope.

[05:54:15]

Lexridge:

occult horror....humm, nothing comes to mind...the Exercist? lol

[05:54:17]

Dagmar:

ynn: Guess what. No one in this channel is even a little bit responsible for that code.

[05:54:31]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: By "occult" I do not mean "christian horror"

[05:54:54]

Dagmar:

ynn: Try #xbmc

[05:55:04]

ynn:

Dagmar: thanks

[05:55:47]

Dagmar:

Lexridge: There's all sorts of Lovecraftian stuff, houdoun, etc etc. The japanese have some great stuff for no better reason than it's extreme alienness.

[05:56:20]

Lexridge:

okay, i have heard of that, but not had the pleasure of seeing it.

[05:56:52]

Dagmar:

The Ring, untranslated but subtitled. The Grudge, again subtitled.

[05:56:59]

Dagmar:

There's two great ones

[05:57:11]

Dagmar:

Tetsuo's Iron Man (which is rather gruesome)

[05:57:57]

Lexridge:

I have an associate that has mentioned that one to me several months ago. His description of rather horrific! ;)

[05:58:16]

Dagmar:

There's a sequel to it as well.

[05:58:21]

Lexridge:

His description WAS rather horrific

[05:58:25]

Dagmar:

I was pretty drunk when I saw it so I don't remember much.

[05:58:39]

Dagmar:

Oh yes, it's *incredibly* graphic. Being black and white doesn't really make it any less gruesome

[05:58:48]

Lexridge:

lol, sound like something I would want to be drunk for as well. :)

[05:59:24]

Lexridge:

I have a weak stomach, don't watch grusome too much.

[06:00:25]

Lexridge:

I even pass out during a blood test... lol unless they have some really cool hi-tech equipment for me to focus on.

[06:01:39]

Lexridge:

dagmar: how about Logan;s Run or the Omega Man....both scifi classics!

[06:01:47]

Dagmar:

Seen 'em both.

[06:04:24]

Lexridge:

I actually found a DVD of "Earth vs. the Flying Saucers" in widescreen!!

[06:04:51]

Lexridge:

it's b/w, but great nonetheless :)

[06:05:35]

Lexridge:

my alltime fav is "The Forbidden Planet" with Leslie Nelson. Great flic!

[06:09:24]

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[06:09:26]

** CaptObviousman has that boox **

[06:09:27]

CaptObviousman:

book*

[06:11:43]

Lexridge:

captobviousman: the forbidden plant book? I'll bet that's worth something!

[06:12:07]

CaptObviousman:

maybe

[06:12:36]

CaptObviousman:

It's not an early printing or anything

[06:12:39]

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[06:12:44]

Lexridge:

what is the copyright date?

[06:12:55]

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[06:13:23]

CaptObviousman:

I don't have it with me right now, sadly. It's in a box

[06:13:33]

CaptObviousman:

at my parent's house in a closet

[06:13:39]

Lexridge:

yea, like most of my old books also.

[06:14:18]

CaptObviousman:

it's pretty interesting. The chapter titles are various character's names, and that's who the story is told by for the entire chapter

[06:14:33]

CaptObviousman:

it takes some getting used to, when someone who used to be "I" is now "that guy"

[06:15:17]

Lexridge:

so you have never seen the movie?

[06:15:26]

CaptObviousman:

nope. It's on my list to watch

[06:15:55]

CaptObviousman:

why, does the movie use the same mechanic?

[06:16:25]

Lexridge:

it's certainly a classic, and a must see. I've not read the book, but surely as most books are, better then the movie.

[06:17:17]

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[06:17:40]

Lexridge:

I'm certainly enjoying Westworld ATM. :)

[06:18:55]

Lexridge:

Does anyone know which Nvidia card is capable of providing four HD-SDI 1080p outputs independently? I discovered our new Harris Centrio has this exact configuration and was curious as to what Nvidia chipset can do such feats. Just got it running today.

[06:19:19]

CaptObviousman:

the Quadro, I'd imagine

[06:20:00]

CaptObviousman:

they recently released a Quadro-based card with 1.5GB of video ram

[06:20:25]

Lexridge:

it's certainly amazing!!! The Centrio card was $33k, which is a one card, whole computer type thing. I wonder what the card by itself would cost.

[06:20:27]

CaptObviousman:

so I suspect enormous feats like that are commonplace on such a famil of cards

[06:20:40]

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[06:20:47]

wagnerrp:

Lexridge: do any nvidia cards output HD-SDI?

[06:21:45]

Lexridge:

apparently this one does. It divided into either two DVI outputs, or four independent HD-SDI outputs, which is what we are using.

[06:21:45]

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[06:22:11]

Piper69:

modprobe cx18

[06:22:13]

kormoc:

lesthe Quadro FX 5500 SDI can do 3 + 1DVI

[06:22:13]

Piper69:

FATAL: Error inserting cx18 (/lib/modules/2.6.26-bpo.1–686/kernel/drivers/media/video/cx18/cx18.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)

[06:22:14]

Lexridge:

all on BNC connectors.

[06:22:38]

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[06:22:46]

kormoc:

Piper69, and dmesg says?

[06:22:46]

wagnerrp:

Piper69: that usually happens when you recompile the kernel, without recompiling the modules

[06:22:53]

wagnerrp:

either way, check dmesg

[06:23:29]

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[06:23:39]

Piper69:

dmesg | grep cx18

[06:23:41]

Piper69:

[ 10.077784] cx18: disagrees about version of symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:42]

Lexridge:

kormoc: what do you mean by 3+1?

[06:23:42]

Piper69:

[ 10.077850] cx18: Unknown symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:44]

Piper69:

[ 2618.091013] cx18: disagrees about version of symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:45]

Piper69:

[ 2618.091052] cx18: Unknown symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:47]

Piper69:

[23594.698184] cx18: disagrees about version of symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:49]

Piper69:

[23594.698220] cx18: Unknown symbol v4l_compat_ioctl32

[06:23:53]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o kormoc

[06:23:57]

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[06:24:05]

kormoc:

Piper69, don't flood the channel

[06:24:07]

Mode for #mythtv-users by kormoc!n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc : -o kormoc

[06:24:14]

kormoc:

Lexridge, 3 SDI and 1 DVI on a single card

[06:25:01]

kormoc:

Lexridge, http://www.nvidia.com/page/qfx_4000sdi.html

[06:25:12]

kormoc:

Lexridge, tech specs has a image that shows the back

[06:25:50]

Lexridge:

oh, okay...this configuration has 2 DVI OR 4 HD-SDI, but not both. ie. If we use a single DVI, we are left with 2 SDI. Perhaps a Harris custom configuration.

[06:25:58]

kormoc:

Lexridge, but the actual specs seem to say one of those channels isn't actually a data channel, but a key channel

[06:26:53]

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[06:28:07]

Lexridge:

kormoc: here's the wild thing....the card is a full winxp computer, on a custom card occuping about 2 inches work of vertical space, and 12" of depth. There is not actual video card in place...built in apparently.

[06:29:06]

Lexridge:

the link is close, but not quite there. I'll bet that card is not cheap by any means!!!

[06:30:03]

Lexridge:

I'll look more into it tomorrow......er...this morning when I get back to work. I'll let you know what drivers are actually installed.

[06:30:57]

Lexridge:

I'd love to have something like this at home....not gonna happen however, as I suspect this card is $10,00 on it's own.

[06:31:18]

Lexridge:

er....$10,000 that is.

[06:31:39]

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[06:31:41]

kormoc:

wouldn't just one SDI output work for you at home?

[06:32:04]

Lexridge:

well, unless I wanna drive four tvs with it. lol ;)

[06:33:19]

Lexridge:

no, actually, as iamlindoro stated, we really don't need SDI in the consumer enviroment....and he's actually right.

[06:37:18]

wagnerrp:

$10K? our quad-duallink-DVI quadro was only $3K

[06:37:29]

Lexridge:

Wow, a bargain

[06:37:38]

high-rez:

yeah but did it support vdpau?

[06:37:42]

** high-rez ducks **

[06:37:43]

wagnerrp:

that was brand new, when it was top of the line at the time

[06:37:45]

sphery:

hmmm... tried watching a couple minutes of T: TSCC on hulu. Athlon X2 6000+ couldn't do full-screen (1920x1080) without pauses every couple of seconds and serious tearing (with Flash 10 alpha for Linux x86_64).

[06:37:50]

wagnerrp:

7-series, so no

[06:37:54]

sphery:

Wonder if it's better with the 32-bit flash

[06:38:13]

wagnerrp:

sphery: you have the bandwidth to handle that?

[06:38:30]

sphery:

didn't seem to be a bandwidth problem

[06:38:43]

sphery:

just seemed flash couldn't keep up

[06:39:00]

sphery:

though I'm pretty sure it was sending a lower-res and just upscaling it to full screen

[06:39:30]

sphery:

I know the 64-bit flash is slow, so for now I"m blaming that

[06:39:32]

Lexridge:

sphery: I'd say your assessment is correct.

[06:39:50]

Lexridge:

flash is slooooow!

[06:40:11]

kormoc:

It's getting better at least

[06:40:48]

Lexridge:

yes, it is at that!

[06:40:49]

sphery:

IME, it is. But I also admit to being completely biased against it (and all its brethren)

[06:41:23]

sphery:

so, kormoc , you know a thing or 2 about Web 2.0... Is it just completely throwing accessibility out the window?

[06:41:25]

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[06:41:38]

Lexridge:

goodnite all. Well past bedtime

[06:41:40]

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[06:42:03]

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[06:42:31]

sphery:

guess it seems there's a lot of ideas for it... I'll have to read up on how it works.

[06:42:41]

wagnerrp:

well if you think 1920x1200 is bad, you should see it at 2560x1600

[06:42:50]

sphery:

lol, I can imagine

[06:43:04]

wagnerrp:

one of the guys at work used to stream video

[06:43:10]

wagnerrp:

sometimes he would make it full screen

[06:43:34]

wagnerrp:

the machines (2.6 C2D) could manage a whopping 4fps

[06:44:44]

kormoc_:

ugh

[06:45:08]

kormoc_:

Anyone using vdpau with 180.11 (and current trunk)?

[06:45:41]

wagnerrp:

well i should be, but the machine didnt seem to boot up after i restarted it

[06:45:49]

wagnerrp:

i dont feel like going downstairs to check on it

[06:46:07]

kormoc_:

with 0.11 I'm getting "Error: Not compiled with any useable video output method."

[06:46:13]

kormoc_:

but .08 I don't

[06:46:16]

kormoc_:

it's quite odd

[06:47:17]

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[06:47:20]

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[06:49:15]

sphery:

Captain_Murdoch: for what it's worth, I'm all for ignoring the "broken WOL" hacks and making it the user's responsibility to know how to WOL their own system. (Ref the response to your post on -dev.)

[06:49:42]

sphery:

If they have a broken system that requires sending a reversed MAC in their WOL packet, let them type it in backwards.

[06:49:53]

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[06:50:28]

sphery:

(and, yes, I had a system that was like that until the NIC driver in the kernel was fixed)

[06:50:29]

wagnerrp:

some systems require it in reverse?

[06:50:39]

kormoc:

f-myth-users is Captain_Murdoch?

[06:50:48]

wagnerrp:

guess i should try that at work

[06:50:57]

sphery:

no, f-myth is the guy recommending Captain_Murdoch do the hack

[06:51:02]

kormoc:

ahh

[06:51:04]

kormoc:

I was gonna say...

[06:51:28]

sphery:

wagnerrp: yeah, for a while the forcedeth driver wrote the MAC backwards at shutdown, so it only responded to a backwards MAC for WOL

[06:51:42]

kormoc:

huh

[06:51:50]

kormoc:

I think *I* broke the vdpau stuff, whoops

[06:52:01]

sphery:

how?

[06:52:05]

sphery:

bad compile?

[06:52:11]

kormoc:

my current patch :)

[06:53:24]

sphery:

Oh. Congrats. You've chosen a sufficiently-complex feature to work on. :)

[06:54:31]

sphery:

Hope Seagate calls back "tomorrow" (today) with my secret download location for the updated firmware for my 1.5TB HDD's

[06:55:09]

** kormoc laughs **

[06:55:27]

kormoc:

as if anyone had any doubts that this wasn't sufficiently complex :P

[06:55:30]

sphery:

Oh, guess they just e-mailed it to me. Found it in my "from unknown addresses" folder.

[06:55:36]

wagnerrp:

not wanting to risk warranty and 'magically' wind up with a copy of it?

[06:55:48]

sphery:

kormoc: yeah, it's way beyond my skill level.

[06:56:41]

kormoc:

sphery, LIES! LIES I SAY! :)

[06:56:43]

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[06:57:31]

sphery:

Wow, it's amazing just how much spam I send myself (at least according to the From: header on the e-mails, it was me who sent them)

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[07:00:27]

kormoc:

sphery, really, I'm just bumbling about here with this, it's not skill, it's just not giving up when I likely should :P

[07:01:34]

sphery:

skill is 99% persistence

[07:03:38]

sphery:

kormoc: Seagate actually gives me an ISO to make a boot CD or boot floppy for upgrading the firmware on the HDD. Wonder if I can make a bootable USB flash drive...

[07:04:06]

sphery:

They may not support SMART utilities, but at least I don't have to run Windows to upgrade the firmware.

[07:04:31]

kormoc:

I know there's utils out there to convert iso's to usb bootable formats, but I don't recall their names

[07:04:54]

kormoc:

I think most HD vendors do the bootable iso for upgrades

[07:05:04]

sphery:

cool... I was just going to try a Google. It should be easier now that I know it does exist.

[07:06:25]

kormoc:

Yeah, bootable usb == win++

[07:06:45]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure the last time I turned a flash drive into a bootable flash drive I threw it away because I forgot I made it a boot disk and couldn't get any of my OS's to detect the device anymore... :) Guess I'll have to reformat it right after using it, this time.

[07:07:17]

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[07:07:54]

kormoc:

I have no idea what I did to cause this...

[07:08:24]

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[07:11:08]

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[07:11:14]

sphery:

Hmmm. On the RIPLinux page ( http://rip.7bf.de/current/ ), it says to use: dd if=RIPLinuX-7.2.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=1M to put it on a USB flash drive. Seems like you can just write the ISO directly to the USB drive.

[07:11:14]

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[07:11:41]

sphery:

eh, flash drives are cheap... worth a try.

[07:11:42]

hads:

Should work

[07:12:06]

kormoc:

sphery, it won't ever kill it anyway :)

[07:12:47]

sphery:

yeah, in theory...

[07:14:14]

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[07:16:16]

sphery:

wonder why the file is called, "Brinks-*"...

[07:16:38]

sphery:

Time to go find a SATA cable/power cable, disconnect my HDD from my dev box and do an update...

[07:19:02]

kormoc:

sphery, least it's not called "Bricks-*"

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[07:26:02]

sphery:

kormoc: heh... that is good. Unfortunately, though, it seems the BIOS in the computer I just disconnected all the HDD's from doesn't support boot from USB drive. :(

[07:27:08]

kormoc:

sad

[07:27:33]

sphery:

yeah, and I bought it this year... Shouldn't that be standard in newer mobos?

[07:27:50]

sphery:

(it's an AM2+ mobo, so it's not like it's a legacy model)

[07:27:59]

kormoc:

it really should

[07:28:14]

kormoc:

it might be under a option like 'removal media boot' perhaps?

[07:28:28]

sphery:

didn't see one... looking for the manual

[07:28:46]

sphery:

the electronic version for searchability

[07:29:30]

sphery:

there is a new bios...

[07:31:27]

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[07:31:48]

sphery:

they support updating the BIOS via USB flash drive, though

[07:31:54]

kormoc:

haha

[07:31:57]

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[07:32:05]

kormoc:

that's a nice circular depend

[07:32:38]

kormoc:

huh

[07:32:48]

kormoc:

so current -trunk without my patch fails the same way

[07:32:58]

kormoc:

it wasn't my patch! Yay! :)

[07:33:31]

sphery:

actually, it uses F12 to boot into a BIOS flash utility built into the BIOS, then that reads from USB flash drive, but still

[07:35:47]

kormoc:

uh oh

[07:35:55]

kormoc:

so mplayer + patches crash the same way

[07:36:01]

kormoc:

I wonder if I bricked my gpu...

[07:37:55]

sphery:

Well, you assured me I couldn't brick my flash drive... I wish I could assure you the same for your GPU.

[07:38:22]

sphery:

Have you tried a shutdown, pull power cord, hit power button a few times, let it sit for a few minutes, then plug in and reboot?

[07:38:45]

kormoc:

nah, just soft cycles right now

[07:39:01]

kormoc:

I'm rebuilding mplayer before I do that, as my mythbox is also my gateway to the interwebs

[07:42:35]

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[07:45:35]

sphery:

ah, yeah, I understand why you'd want to try other approaches first.

[07:46:05]

sphery:

Well, I guess it's easier to burn a CD, grab an extra CD-ROM and plug it into the mobo than to move to a different computer.

[07:46:10]

sphery:

Stupid BIOS.

[07:48:19]

sphery:

hmmm... BIOS has an "Emulation Type" for USB Mass Storage...

[07:54:36]

sphery:

not offering boot from USB because it can't detect the floppy

[07:54:51]

sphery:

I mean the USB flash drive

[07:55:54]

kormoc:

hrm

[07:56:06]

kormoc:

recompiling mplayer and just get corrupt video for everything

[07:56:26]

kormoc:

but it does /try/

[07:56:48]

sphery:

progress, then

[07:57:34]

kormoc:

oh nasty

[07:57:51]

kormoc:

the corrupt image is static and of myth's OSD

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[08:01:10]

kormoc:

yeah, time to power cycle...

[08:01:28]

sphery:

gl

[08:03:05]

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[08:10:40]

kormoc:

nope, it's still dead in the water

[08:15:12]

sphery:

so is my "change this ISO boot image to a USB flash boot" plan...

[08:15:17]

sphery:

switching to CD

[08:15:56]

sphery:

hope you get yours working. I'm giving up and moving the to easy solution.

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[09:24:25]

justinh:

mornin

[09:25:02]

justinh:

just a thought about VDPAU. it's very nice & all but next time somebody's inventing an acronym could they make it spell something _pronouncable_ ? ;-)

[09:27:21]

hads:

vee dee pow :)

[09:27:47]

RyeBrye:

I like how it ends in "pow" – because when you say it, you can make a karate-chop motion and look cool

[09:28:00]

justinh:

heh. never looked at it like that. DUH

[09:28:05]

directhex:

viddyPOW!!!

[09:28:47]

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[09:28:47]

RyeBrye:

viddy is probbaly better than vee dee... vee dee pow makes it sound like some magical gonorrhea fairy is casting a spell or something

[09:28:55]

hads:

Haha

[09:30:58]

hads:

One dose and your VD is gone

[09:33:45]

Dibblah:

Why on earth does swapon do _stupid_ things?

[09:34:33]

laga:

stupid?

[09:34:59]

Dibblah:

Each swap device has a priority. By default, swapon makes these priorities sequential – So one swap device will be used to completion before anything else is touched.

[09:35:31]

Dibblah:

I have 4 swap devices – Since I'm on a RAID1 on my root, it doesn't cost anything extra.

[09:35:58]

Dibblah:

And that _should_ speed up swap. But of course due to this inanity it doesn't.

[09:36:56]

Dibblah:

Easy enough to workaround – Just add -p 1 to all of the swapon commands in /etc/init.d.

[09:37:06]

Dibblah:

But it's still a silly default.

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[10:13:31]

sid3windr:

viddy POW

[10:18:13]

directhex:

POW!

[10:32:22]

laga:

prisoner of war?

[10:36:30]

laga:

cya.

[10:39:33]

justinh:

that'd need a small 'o' shirley

[10:39:44]

justinh:

get your coat :P

[10:59:30]

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[12:01:29]

gbee:

well might not exactly be news to most of you, but sticking in faster RAM seems like a good way to boost IGP performance, simple addition of CL4 instead of CL6 gives an average of 250 more fps

[12:04:48]

gbee:

still over 300 fps slower than a 4+ year old 6200, but I'll look on the bright side

[12:09:38]

Dibblah:

Which IGP does VDPAU?

[12:10:28]

gbee:

8200/8300/9300/9400

[12:11:50]

Dibblah:

Funky.

[12:13:59]

Dibblah:

Heh. "Can you backport all of the interesting stuff? Kthxbye!"

[12:14:38]

gbee:

iamlindro has a 9300, I've got an 8200, both seem to handle h.264 well but you still need to bump up the memory to 512Mb

[12:15:26]

Dibblah:

Odd.

[12:15:40]

** Dibblah wonders if it's precomputing some tables... **

[12:19:17]

gbee:

more likely buffering decoded frames

[12:20:34]

gbee:

5 seconds x 25–30fps of uncompressed 1920x1080 images ... that'll chew up memory fast

[12:20:57]

gbee:

but that's just one theory

[12:21:21]

Dibblah:

Well, it's pre-beta, so it's likely they've left lots of state accessible.

[12:23:58]

gbee:

sure, expecting performance to improve

[12:24:27]

** Dibblah wonders if there's any of the usual hidden twiddleables. **

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[12:44:50]

** stuarta suggests Dibblah get a room before playing with any of the hidden twiddleables. **

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[12:49:28]

justinh:

.. a private room too, not one of them with the big window overlooking a busy street

[12:50:39]

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[12:55:47]

gbee:

I wish you'd all been around to give me that advice back when I was starting my political career

[12:59:07]

dustybin:

justinh: have you gone vdpau nuts, like the rest of the folk here?

[12:59:55]

justinh:

er.. no. I remain quietly intruiged

[13:00:10]

dustybin:

heh

[13:00:26]

stuarta:

i remain quietly hardware deprived

[13:00:43]

dustybin:

i wont touch it until dvb-t2 is out

[13:01:32]

stuarta:

wtf has that got to do with vdpau?

[13:01:52]

dustybin:

dvb-t2 = HD

[13:02:01]

Dibblah:

Where?

[13:02:07]

dustybin:

there isnt much point in using VDPAU with SDTV

[13:02:08]

justinh:

stuarta: I think rubbish receptacles aren't allowed to put dishes up, or something ;-)

[13:02:35]

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[13:02:42]

stuarta:

there is always a point in offloading decoding to specialized hardware

[13:02:47]

Dibblah:

Where is anyone broadcasting dvb-s2?

[13:02:52]

stuarta:

europe

[13:02:58]

dustybin:

November 2009

[13:03:01]

Dibblah:

-t2, even :)

[13:03:02]

stuarta:

however dvb-T2 is proposed

[13:03:05]

gbee:

Sky are .. albeit encrypted

[13:03:16]

justinh:

and it'll be all well & good when dvb-t2 comes out, although PC dvb-t2 tuners may never become available

[13:03:39]

justinh:

they prolly will, but there are no guarantees

[13:03:44]

dustybin:

even if they do, it might take years for a hacked up linux driver

[13:03:58]

gbee:

nah

[13:03:59]

stuarta:

the should do, the T2 hardware isn't tooooo dissimilar to the S2 hardware

[13:04:09]

Dibblah:

Ah, we're well over the 600 ticket boundary now.

[13:04:16]

stuarta:

:(

[13:04:20]

Dibblah:

I'm just going to relax and let it go.

[13:04:23]

gbee:

we'll see a driver probably before we see T2 reach areas outside London

[13:04:42]

gbee:

Dibblah: noooooo!

[13:05:02]

dustybin:

does that mean all transmissions on dvb-t will end and my nova-t 500 will become void?

[13:05:13]

stuarta:

eventually

[13:05:16]

dustybin:

:(

[13:05:23]

justinh:

not for AGES though

[13:05:25]

gbee:

dustybin: not for a very long time

[13:05:28]

dustybin:

ok

[13:05:29]

justinh:

by that time, everything will be HD

[13:05:40]

Dibblah:

There's not nearly enough dev time to review the patches, even.

[13:05:40]

dustybin:

so this could be 2012+

[13:05:54]

justinh:

though I suspect with OFCOM's record it'll be sooner than any of us think practical

[13:06:00]

stuarta:

dustybin: analogue switch off has to happen first

[13:06:05]

justinh:

dustybin: I think 2020+ would be more likely

[13:06:06]

gbee:

since Freeview/BBC etc are not going to piss off the entire country by making their STBs worthless – hell it may never happen for that exact reason

[13:06:12]

dustybin:

justinh: seriously LOL

[13:06:23]

justinh:

can you imagine the outcry?

[13:06:26]

justinh:

seriously!

[13:06:37]

stuarta:

gbee: they decided that making everyone upgrade again in a few years was acceptable :(

[13:07:19]

dustybin:

oh well i might invest in another nova-t 500 dual tuner for home then, need a few more tuners

[13:08:02]

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[13:08:32]

justinh:

if you can find a T500.. ebuyer.com review comments are still saying TD versions are being shipped

[13:08:41]

]Oscar:

hi

[13:09:38]

]Oscar:

I tested the patch iamlindoro sent to me: I think we are a step ahead, but the black screen persist

[13:09:56]

dustybin:

justinh: my friend bought a TD version the other day, at first i thought it wouldnt work, but after installing the latest v4l drivers, and downloading firmware, it worked! the only thing what im having trouble with is the remote

[13:10:14]

justinh:

dustybin: ruh?

[13:10:26]

justinh:

so much for NEVAH then

[13:10:33]

dustybin:

hold on ill log into his box

[13:10:40]

justinh:

but I won't take your word for it if it's all the same to you

[13:10:43]

]Oscar:

this time I got a file, but it isn't visible: mplayer don't know how to open it, too

[13:10:55]

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[13:11:07]

dustybin:

[ 12.721197] dvb-usb: found a 'Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (84xxx)' in cold state, will try to load a firmware

[13:11:07]

]Oscar:

logs at http://pastebin.com/m39b3b4f1

[13:11:26]

justinh:

dustybin: !

[13:11:30]

dustybin:

[ 14.692063] dvb-usb: found a 'Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (84xxx)' in warm state.

[13:11:33]

waxhead:

I have 2 nova t 500s....

[13:11:50]

dustybin:

[ 15.444838] dvb-usb: Hauppauge Nova-TD-500 (84xxx) successfully initialized and connected.

[13:11:57]

waxhead:

not sure what's going on, but many of the issues I saw with errors in the transmission aren't so bad now...

[13:12:01]

dustybin:

just cannot get remote working

[13:12:12]

justinh:

the speil from the v4l dvb guys was "it won't work, and will likely NEVER work cos we can't be bothered on account of the production run being so small".. or something akin to that

[13:12:52]

dustybin:

justinh: i rang the hauppauge guy and he said that it will work with latest kernels

[13:13:13]

justinh:

wow. nice work fella, as they used to say in that lad's mag

[13:13:35]

dustybin:

the downside, its now got 2x antenna ports

[13:13:40]

dustybin:

and remote doesnt work

[13:13:58]

waxhead:

oh... what's the difference with a TD and a T?

[13:14:01]

justinh:

that being the case I needn't worry too much about 4x PCI slots being a necessity for my backend

[13:14:02]

dustybin:

much rather find a older model personally

[13:14:12]

justinh:

waxhead: diversity. different chipsets

[13:14:25]

waxhead:

right...

[13:14:27]

dustybin:

waxhead: TD = 2x antenna ports, remote doesnt work T = 1x antenna port, remote works

[13:14:32]

justinh:

that's 'diversity' as in having 2 aerial inputs – it chooses the strongest/best signal

[13:14:36]

Dibblah:

waxhead: One's a petrol engine, the other's diesel.

[13:14:50]

gbee:

newer TDs are based on a chipset that may be supported

[13:14:57]

** justinh wants a Nova 500-TDi **

[13:15:07]

dustybin:

lol

[13:15:11]

waxhead:

The two inputs would suck a bit I think.. you have to split the cable to do it...

[13:15:35]

dustybin:

are there any ways for me to detect the IR port on the card? dmesg doesnt show much

[13:15:36]

justinh:

gbee: ahh ok. stil though, how do you know what you're buying? :-(

[13:16:04]

Dibblah:

That'd be through the ebay refund.

[13:16:09]

gbee:

you don't really, but I believe Hauppauge will switch them etc

[13:16:23]

waxhead:

I got caught out with the DVICO dual tuner card... there was a hardware change and the card is basically unsupported...

[13:16:26]

justinh:

do they pay the postage to return stuff to them?

[13:16:54]

justinh:

call me finicky ;-)

[13:16:57]

waxhead:

the guy who wrote the first driver for it is now in the US and can't do anything to work on it...

[13:17:00]

gbee:

don't forget than Hauppauge have their own guys working on v4l drivers, the S2-api was their work

[13:17:34]

waxhead:

So I actgually have 3 dual tuners in the mediacentre...

[13:17:38]

dustybin:

gbee: i think the hauppauge guys sent a patch for the latest nove-td 500 range

[13:22:06]

dustybin:

if i decided to buy a Nova-S card, and use it together with my Nova-T 500, how can you merge the channels? I could add in the extra HD channels, but how could I combine everything, so it looks like I have 3x tuners?

[13:23:06]

justinh:

better to keep lineups separate IMHO

[13:23:40]

dustybin:

justinh: that means ill have a, BBC1 for Nova-T 500 dual tuner, and a BBC1 for the Nova-S card

[13:23:41]

justinh:

all the timeI had my cable box hooked up to a pVR card I left all the stuff I get on Freeview off the cable lineup

[13:23:54]

justinh:

dustybin: not necessarily

[13:24:33]

dustybin:

Is there a way to make Mythtv look at BBC1 as having 3 tuners, (Nova-T 500 Dual + Nova-S)

[13:24:40]

justinh:

yeah

[13:24:44]

dustybin:

right ok

[13:24:51]

Dibblah:

Set it to be the same channum / callsign.

[13:24:57]

dustybin:

ok

[13:25:31]

dustybin:

in the UK there are 6 main muxes? so that means, if you have 6x tuners, your box will be the ultimate recording machine

[13:26:02]

dustybin:

if i had a busy home, 3x Nova-T 500 Dual tuners, would be perfect

[13:26:14]

gbee:

same callsign is enough iirc

[13:26:20]

dustybin:

ok

[13:26:23]

justinh:

in the UK there are 3 muxes with stuff worth watching on them

[13:26:31]

dustybin:

yep true

[13:26:43]

justinh:

few of them show content worth watching at the same time :)

[13:26:51]

dustybin:

heh

[13:27:03]

stuarta:

2 tuners is enuf for me

[13:27:06]

justinh:

and the cycle of repeats helps :)

[13:27:18]

justinh:

if I didn't record so much radio, 2 would be enough for me

[13:27:29]

dustybin:

2 tuners isnt enough for me and my sister watching TV at the same time, and something wants to record

[13:27:51]

stuarta:

the rest of us just use a tv to watch tv

[13:27:56]

gbee:

and that's the crux, you might want to record things from 6 muxes but I'll lay money that no more than 2, maybe three of those programmes will be on at the same time and won't be repeated 1hour, 2days or a week later

[13:28:25]

Dibblah:

But... Then you won't be able to watch it live!

[13:28:27]

Dibblah:

;)

[13:28:47]

stuarta:

the only thing i want to watch live is international rugby

[13:28:54]

stuarta:

that's what the pub was invented for

[13:28:57]

gbee:

2xDVB-T is enough that I never have a conflict with things I really want to see

[13:29:00]

justinh:

btw after all that rushing around to back up my backend & get new HDDs into it, it's been behaving itself on the same disks

[13:29:17]

justinh:

so the new HDDs are just sitting unused at the mo

[13:29:54]

justinh:

rather than opt for another external HDD I'll never use I opted to buy a USB-SATA/IDE thingy

[13:30:02]

justinh:

just use it on bare HDDs.. sorted

[13:31:59]

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[13:33:15]

Dibblah:

What an odd name. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/flash_d . . . _flash_drive

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[13:42:03]

justinh:

argh.. not in screen. bugger

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[15:02:14]

gbee:

whoa, where'd the day go?

[15:02:54]

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[15:04:40]

stuarta:

tgif

[15:07:51]

gbee:

soon enough it'll be acim

[15:09:39]

stuarta:

i'll just setting for the weekend

[15:21:59]

gbee:

busy preparing old components for sale on Ebay, on one hand the cash would be nice, on the other the hassle of taking photos, listing it on Ebay with a decent enough description, wrapping it up and posting it off ...

[15:22:28]

justinh:

ebay's feedback policy change has put me off selling anything ever again

[15:22:58]

stuarta:

anything good?

[15:23:10]

gbee:

never sold anything before, listed something once but there were no takers and I was out of pocket

[15:24:19]

gbee:

2x512Mb PC3200 DIMMS, 1xAthlon 64 2800+, 1xAbit KV8 Pro mobo

[15:25:32]

gbee:

so all older kit, but looking at recent prices I could get upwards of Â£40 for the lot, which contributes towards the cost of the new board etc

[15:25:36]

stuarta:

heh, my dev box is only _slightly_ more cpu than that

[15:25:37]

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[15:26:27]

Huijari:

My epg occasionally doesn't fill up with data until mythtv already has missed some recordings. I'm using dvb epg w/ active eit scan on and mythtv 0.21. Is there anything I can do to "tell" mythtv to fill the data without switching to xmltv?

[15:26:49]

stuarta:

where are you based?

[15:27:04]

teprrr:

Huijari, try to rescan the channels

[15:27:29]

teprrr:

my epg also lost info on some channels now and then, perhaps due to changes in frequencies or something

[15:27:34]

teprrr:

and I'm based in finland

[15:27:38]

Huijari:

me too

[15:28:01]

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[15:28:30]

Huijari:

(which isn't hard to guess for a finn)

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[15:30:15]

Huijari:

teprrr: have you ever tried _not_ to rescan the channels? does the epg populate then? (although a day or so "late", as i said)

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[15:31:15]

inordkuo:

hi guys. i'm wondering if i should install ivtv from atrpms on fedora 10 or should the version that came with be sufficient.

[15:31:57]

gbee:

wonder what I might get for these old nivs

[15:31:59]

gbee:

nics

[15:32:13]

stuarta:

new ones cost bugger all

[15:33:39]

gbee:

aye, looking at ebay what I could make from them just wouldn't be worth the hassle of finding suitable packaging etc

[15:34:02]

stuarta:

leave em in a draw. never know when you need another network card

[15:35:32]

gbee:

PCI though? last card I had to find PCI-E simply because there were no free PCI slots, that's unlikely to change

[15:36:04]

stuarta:

true, generally only have 2xPCI these days

[15:36:18]

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[15:37:52]

gbee:

I'm looking at the drawer they are in now and it's a mess of wires, cards and drives etc ... I'd like to clear it up

[15:40:31]

gbee:

no chance of selling the 2-port KVM – cost me Â£80 new IIRC, sells for Â£1 on ebay

[15:40:53]

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[15:41:59]

gbee:

enough Cat5 to run to the Moon and back

[15:42:37]

stuarta:

buy a house and wire it up

[15:42:44]

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[15:44:11]

gbee:

heh, sticker on the back of the KVM proudly boasts that it's "Year 2K Compliant"

[15:45:04]

stuarta:

modern technology

[15:45:05]

gbee:

"Novell Netware 5 Tested", "Designed for Microsoft Windows NT/98" and "Linux Tested"

[15:45:30]

stuarta:

it's not like they did anything to make a kvm y2k compliant except putting a sticker on it

[15:45:31]

gbee:

ooh, a PS2 to Serial adapter

[15:45:42]

gbee:

aye

[15:45:58]

stuarta:

serial mice are dead jim

[15:46:16]

XLV:

i still got some.. but no serial ports anymore ;-)

[15:47:00]

XLV:

well, no, i have some, but i had to find a serial port bracket.. and chose mbs that have serial ports as header atlest

[15:47:00]

gbee:

this is ps2 m to serial f, i.e for connecting a PS2 mouse to a serial port

[15:47:26]

teprrr:

Huijari, they won't be repopulated I think

[15:47:27]

stuarta:

ooer

[15:47:44]

teprrr:

Huijari, I'm missing data for mtv3, nelonen, sub for example where-as with yle's channels they're available

[15:47:57]

gbee:

it's heart breaking to be throwing this KVM away knowing that it could have gone to a good home, like clever's

[15:48:08]

stuarta:

haha

[15:48:41]

Huijari:

teprrr: i had that before too, but now there's no info for any channel

[15:49:25]

** gbee bins 6 Cat 5 patch cables **

[15:49:30]

XLV:

gbee, depending on the resolutions and refresh rate it supports, it can be useful somewhere

[15:50:15]

teprrr:

Huijari, hmm. I'm still seeing data for some channels :)

[15:51:02]

gbee:

XLV: well it's not useful to me and unless someone in the UK speaks up now (and is prepared to pay postage), it's heading for the bin

[15:53:06]

XLV:

gbee, yeah.. i am not in the UK and already got two kvms.. but still, you could try something like http://www.recycle.co.uk/ ... ofcourse even that requires more time and effort than the bin

[15:53:10]

gbee:

oh that was a scam ... paid at least Â£20 on top of the Â£80 for the KVM for the cables ... which it turned out were difficult to buy from anyone except Belkin

[15:54:09]

XLV:

gbee, yeah, previous gen moderate priced kvms tend to come with pos cables.. that would distort even 640x480@60

[15:54:28]

XLV:

and the cables sometimes were more expensive than kvm itself

[15:54:58]

** stuarta likes modern kvms **

[15:55:11]

stuarta:

ip accessible and cat 5 connectivity

[15:55:27]

stuarta:

cat 5 between host & kvm

[15:55:59]

gbee:

this came without cables, the ones I bought weren't shielded enough, hence having to buy the branded cables from Belkin which were grossly over priced ... like I said, it was a scam and it put me off belkin kit for a long time

[15:58:05]

XLV:

i tend to give away old hardware i dont use anymore and that its value is null.. through some local web forums..

[15:58:44]

gbee:

I've given stuff away in the past, but I'm lazy about it these days

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[15:59:10]

gbee:

I'd put it in a local charity collection if I thought they'd even know what they were getting

[15:59:55]

gbee:

1x 80mm fan guard, still in original packaging

[16:00:58]

gbee:

and a 80mm fan, funny I'd have sworn that I already cleared out a lot of this crap

[16:01:52]

gbee:

make that 2x 80mm fans, complete with authentic dust buildup

[16:02:38]

gbee:

and a 60mm ... I could open "Fans R' Us"

[16:03:38]

gbee:

2x Blue Cat 5 patch cables in original packaging ... this drawer is going to be empty when I'm done

[16:04:10]

stuarta:

gbee: you did clean it all out

[16:04:18]

stuarta:

you just stuck it all in that draw

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gbee:

Celly 500 ... wonder where that came from

[16:11:10]

stuarta:

the underpant gnomes

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Saviq:

hi guys, is there a way for mythgallery to mount volumes on flash cards instead of trying to mount the device itself?

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Saviq:

... or at least try not to mount the empty /dev/sd? devices that's my flashcard reader without the cards?

[17:27:27]

wagnerrp:

Savig: you may want to check out AMD (auto-mount daemon)

[17:27:44]

wagnerrp:

it automatically mounts volumes upon request to the file system path

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[17:29:23]

Saviq:

will mythgallery browse the flash cards on card insertion etc.?

[17:30:12]

wagnerrp:

never used it, or AMD for that matter

[17:31:16]

Saviq:

yeah I'm using autofs here and there, but I can't see how it would help mythgallery...

[17:31:33]

Saviq:

on the other hand, I could point mythgallery to the relevant dirs

[17:31:37]

Saviq:

I'll have a try later

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[18:11:13]

ruskie:

http://www.dattebayo.com/pr/102 <-- seems like a nice idea... I wonder how well it will go

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gbee:

not sure whether that deserves a 'meh' or an 'eh?'

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[18:26:49]

ruskie:

gbee, lol... I'd say a meh until they make it a downloadable service(or until someone comes up with a youtube-dl like tool for it(or a harverster)

[18:29:08]

gbee:

ruskie: I'm not an anime fan nor do I have a high opinion of it, so without wishing to offend anyone, I'll just say that I couldn't care less :)

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[18:53:44]

sphery:

clever: The bug didn't cause gnome-screensaver-command to be executed on every keypress. It was executed on every remote button press (or joystick event).

[18:54:13]

clever:

sphery: yeah, 'keys' that didnt come from the keyboard

[18:54:46]

sphery:

clever: and just using QProcess to schedule running the deactivate command for a screensaver doesn't make sense because we /only/ want to deactivate the screensaver if someone is using MythTV. The screensaver automatically detects keyboard/mouse events, we just added code to detect remote button presses and joystick events.

[18:55:29]

clever:

sphery: yeah but if you receive a button from lirc, do you want to wait for the screensaver command to return before processing it?

[18:55:43]

clever:

or do you just want to disable the screensaver in the bg while handling the key

[18:55:51]

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[18:56:01]

clever:

or maybe just ignore the key and 'eat' it like the screensaver probly does for the keyboard

[18:56:12]

sphery:

gbee: It's official... You're wasting your time. From the thread "Vote for MythTV on Lifehacker..." on -users, "***, I'd never even heard of XBMC, I must say the interface looks fantastic."

[18:56:30]

sphery:

We should just kill mythfrontend/mythui and use XBMC, instead. ;)

[18:56:42]

gbee:

ok

[18:56:45]

RyeBrye:

who needs a GUI anyway?

[18:56:50]

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[18:57:08]

sphery:

RyeBrye: aamyth and cacamyth should be enough for most

[18:58:40]

RyeBrye:

I just pipe mplayer output straight to my brain through a serial connection

[18:58:44]

RyeBrye:

it's much simpler

[18:59:50]

laga:

i just read a book

[18:59:51]

laga:

ffs

[19:01:10]

sphery:

clever: there's a reason there's an '&' at the end of the xscreensaver-command/gnome-screensaver-command commands...

[19:01:40]

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[19:02:13]

sphery:

clever: besides, now in /both/ -fixes and trunk we're only running the command at /most/ once per 30 seconds, so it's not much of an issue (and remote responsiveness is /significantly/ improved if you're not running xscreensaver).

[19:02:28]

clever:

sphery: ahh, i never actualy looked at the commands

[19:02:45]

sphery:

(actually, I should say once per 30 seconds due to remote/joystick events)

[19:02:55]

gbee:

wish I had the time to convert to mythui _and_ create a fantastic looking demo theme

[19:03:01]

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[19:03:09]

clever:

sphery: i wont even notice that right now, my lirc receiver is still busted

[19:03:23]

clever:

the pvr150 driver broke several dist-upgrades ago

[19:03:59]

clever:

i could give it a try under lenny later today

[19:04:20]

gbee:

but it's nice of people to continually suggest that xbmc should replace mythfrontend – despite them being fundamentally different and one lacking all the features of the other

[19:04:22]

sphery:

gbee: In spite of my tongue-in-cheek comment, I think the work you've done is amazing. I just hope some themers take the opportunity to create some beautiful (XBMC-UI-killer) themes so people will stop thinking XBMC has a better UI...

[19:04:52]

sphery:

gbee: and despite the fact that XBMC on anything but XBox is still extremely unstable.

[19:06:05]

sphery:

So, also on -users, "Myth with directfb"... Makes me wonder why in the world /anyone/ would want to use DirectFB these days... Even my Openmoko FreeRunner runs X, so the whole "embedded" argument just doesn't cut it, IMHO.

[19:06:56]

clever:

sphery: what do you think of making a frontend with / on a ramdisk

[19:07:24]

gbee:

sphery: it's out of this same silly attitude that has people asking why mythtv-setup needs X or running Gentoo

[19:07:30]

clever:

you could just load a binary blob into the ramdisk at boot time and just run with it

[19:07:36]

directhex:

gbee, gebtoobies forever!

[19:07:40]

sphery:

I think that would be easily possible even with X

[19:07:52]

sphery:

gbee: I love that "or"...

[19:10:10]

sphery:

It's official... When copying 1TB of data from one HDD to another (because you have to upgrade the firmware on your broken 1.5TB HDD), rsync is the way to go. With --progress it shows progress on individual files (percent complete) and "xfer#349, to-check=99/449" between files. And, you can even bandwidth limit it if you want to "nice" it even more than you can with ionice -c3.

[19:11:24]

sphery:

pheld: I think he means "don't switch renderers [while VDPAU stuff is still being worked out]"

[19:11:36]

clever:

sphery: how full was it though?

[19:11:36]

clever:

50% 90%?

[19:11:40]

gbee:

I think we need someone to start work on a theme now, something to whet the appetites

[19:12:05]

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[19:12:37]

sphery:

clever: just under 1TB of 1.5TB full (so a little under 2/3).

[19:12:37]

LEsinnlos:

hi i will make on mythtv an channel for analog tv composide 1

[19:12:58]

clever:

shadash: ahh, i was thinking that a plain dd copy might go faster, if it was near full

[19:13:01]

clever:

sphery: oops

[19:13:19]

clever:

sphery: a dd type copy would ignore all the fragmentation and the whole FS layer

[19:13:51]

clever:

with with 60% used, you would spend alot more time on copying free space

[19:14:07]

sphery:

clever: yeah, it probably would, but when copying 1TB of data, it takes long enough that you just start it and do something else (for a day), so a little less efficient (while allowing the backend to do things it needs to do, like scheduling and getting new listings with mfdb) is not a bad thing.

[19:14:24]

clever:

sphery: yeah

[19:14:38]

sphery:

oh, you're talking dd the partition (as opposed to dd files)

[19:14:39]

clever:

thats my bigest problem with lvm/resize2fs

[19:14:52]

sphery:

yeah, lots of free space, so not worthwhile

[19:15:02]

clever:

lvm tends to hardlock if im accessing a filesystem durring a pvmove

[19:15:17]

clever:

some kind of kernel side mutex problem

[19:15:42]

clever:

and my main 500gig volume holds the / for every other linux

[19:15:58]

sphery:

but using cp or dd (file to file) or whatever would be more efficient because it's not continually updating the terminal and checking things that rsync checks, but the progress and the bwlimit make it a winner in my book.

[19:15:59]

clever:

so i need to shutdown everything including the master backend to do anything with the storage system

[19:16:13]

clever:

sphery: dd can also give progress reports

[19:16:20]

clever:

sphery: kill -usr1

[19:16:39]

clever:

last time i did a long dd, i used watch -n 60 kill -usr1 12345

[19:16:50]

clever:

that would give it usr1 signals at a regular interval

[19:17:14]

sphery:

yeah, I stopped using LVM when I no longer needed a single partition for Myth (OK, technically, I stopped using LVM 6 months before I no longer needed a single partition because I saw work being done on Storage Groups and had a workaround I could use in the meantime). I didn't like the failure modes with LVM.

[19:17:19]

gbee:

and -z

[19:17:39]

gbee:

don't forget rsync -z

[19:17:52]

clever:

sphery: i still find lvm fun for holding / and stuff

[19:18:12]

clever:

and lately im doing a 1partition->1filesystem mapping thru lvm(like lvm wasnt even there)

[19:18:18]

gbee:

although that is more useful for network transfers, maybe less so for disk to disk

[19:18:31]

clever:

by doing that, i have the ability to pvmove the whole filesystem out if i ever upgrade

[19:18:37]

sphery:

clever: yeah, but that would only give progress reports on a single file copy (assuming I'm doing dd file to file), so I'd have to have a script that calculates current progress among all files and outputs it and have to do an appropriate poll)... But, someone /already/ wrote all that stuff in a little program called rsync

[19:18:43]

sphery:

In other words, why re-invent the wheel.

[19:18:56]

clever:

yeah

[19:19:59]

sphery:

(but, yeah, I've seen a /lot/ of people posting hackish scripts like that on the 'net--including one that used strace and awk (to parse strace output) running cp or one that did exactly what you said or ones that used some program called pv (a GNOME GUI thing? part of midnight commander or something?)

[19:20:17]

hadees:

has anyone been able to stream HD over wifi? I tried it a while ago with a wireless N card but that wasn't fast enough although it might have been because i had to use ndiswrapper

[19:20:24]

clever:

strace on cp will just horidly slow it down:P

[19:20:28]

sphery:

But, I think rsync is the best

[19:20:41]

clever:

ive never used rsync before

[19:20:55]

clever:

can it resume partial copys or handle files that are allready copyed?

[19:21:02]

sphery:

clever: yeah, that's exactly what I thought, so I actually looked at the blog comments and someone timed it and saw a 30–50% performance reduction with strace/cp

[19:21:14]

sphery:

clever: yep,

[19:21:29]

jams:

clever- that is one of the main features of rsync

[19:21:33]

clever:

nice:)

[19:21:34]

sphery:

clever: it was /designed/ for doing copies across unstable/low-bandwidth links

[19:22:16]

clever:

sphery: a few years ago, i was copying 1gig .nuv's over a 50kbyte/sec link

[19:22:16]

sphery:

clever: and it only copies differences, so if you change only part of a file, you don't waste bandwidth/IO copying the whole thing again

[19:22:24]

sphery:

wow

[19:22:28]

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[19:22:29]

jams:

unless you ask it to

[19:22:46]

sphery:

true... It also has more options than Myth :)

[19:22:46]

clever:

i was at a hotel in cleveland

[19:22:47]

janneg:

sphery: send USR1 to dd for progress report

[19:22:53]

clever:

and i was running mythfrontend remotely

[19:23:00]

clever:

the myth protocol and mysql both ran thru the internet

[19:23:15]

clever:

and i copyed the recordings over ahead of time, to a local slave backend

[19:23:16]

sphery:

janneg: yeah, but rsync already did a lot of other nice things

[19:23:45]

clever:

and #bash just couldnt understand that i wanted to poll the filesize DURRING a cp, to get the progress of 1 file

[19:23:55]

clever:

and those where 12 hour cp's

[19:23:56]

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[19:25:01]

janneg:

sphery: I agree, moving files is nicer with rsync.

[19:25:35]

sphery:

I've tried a lot of other approaches over the years (from the simple script that uses cp and outputs current position within the total copy (i.e. "Copying $file ($number of $total)") to dd, but this is the first time I've used rsync for a local copy of my recordings, and it's my favorite.

[19:25:47]

jams:

sphery- have you used unison? it's a bidirectional rsync very handy at times.

[19:25:54]

clever:

i'll have to try rsync later

[19:26:00]

sphery:

jams: no, hadn't heard of it.

[19:26:09]

clever:

but i dont realy have the space to play with atm

[19:26:10]

janneg:

sphery: I'm not sure if rsync protocol is faster for resuming copying of large files over a fast link

[19:26:11]

sphery:

though I think the bidirectional thing would cause me much confusion... :)

[19:26:20]

clever:

can rsync also delete the source when its done, to act like mv?

[19:27:08]

jams:

it can scuase trouble cause it needs to keep a hash of file info. But keep it in mind for future use. It's also multiplatform.

[19:27:10]

janneg:

since it has to read both original and partial copy

[19:27:14]

sphery:

janneg: yeah, it would probably have to check each already-copied file, but (fingers crossed) I hope I don't need to resume copying (which would indicate a problem with my SATA PCI card to which both drives are connected :)

[19:28:15]

GreyFoxx:

clever: There are several --delete options though I've never used any of them as there isn't much point

[19:28:22]

sphery:

clever: there's a --delete optin and--more importantly, especially if using --delete--there's a --dry-run option

[19:28:24]

GreyFoxx:

since the next call to rsync wont copy stuff it already has

[19:28:38]

clever:

im working on migrating my 5 storage dir's into 1

[19:28:49]

janneg:

sphery: rsync has a switch to assume files equal if the metadata matches

[19:28:59]

clever:

so i need to move lots of data between diff drives

[19:29:02]

clever:

the --progress could be usefull

[19:29:05]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: I use the delete options for mirroring, removing remote files that don't exist in the local path

[19:29:06]

sphery:

janneg: nice... Didn't know about that one

[19:29:32]

janneg:

I don't think rsync has an option for deleting the sources

[19:29:41]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: --delete I use which removes them from the destination if they no longer exist on the source

[19:29:48]

GreyFoxx:

but never for removing the source file after I've copied it

[19:30:01]

jams:

--remove-source-files is an option

[19:30:14]

gbee:

oh sure, no idea what clever is saying atm (again)

[19:30:27]

clever:

lol

[19:30:28]

sphery:

oh, deleting source files...

[19:30:42]

sphery:

I was also thinking deleting files on destination side

[19:30:45]

jams:

heh 7 different "delete" option

[19:30:52]

sphery:

janneg: is it the --update option?

[19:31:39]

janneg:

jams: yes, found it

[19:32:43]

sphery:

"Normally rsync will skip any files that are already the same size and have the same modification timestamp." Hmmm. So, it wouldn't be as slow as doing an SHA1 or MD5 sum on each file.

[19:33:02]

sphery:

(but you can disable the quick-check with --ignore-times)

[19:33:19]

sphery:

and can use --size-only to make a quicker check

[19:33:28]

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[19:34:14]

janneg:

sphery: yeah I had it inverted

[19:34:45]

sphery:

Yeah, I assumed it was going to do a byte-for-byte comparison by default, too.

[19:35:23]

Gumby:

hi all. I'm trying to run an imdb.pl script on my master backend but I get the error "Can't locate MythTV/MythVideoCommon.pm in @INC". Is this just an incompatible script or am I possibly missing package

[19:35:25]

pheld:

sphery: don't get me wrong. Not really complaining. Just providing feedback for what I see.

[19:35:40]

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[19:36:21]

sphery:

pheld: yeah, just trying to provide a little more info (at least as I understood the comment)... I think it's just a "work in progress, so handle carefully" thing

[19:36:56]

sphery:

LEsinnlos: did you have a question about setting up your composite input when I completely lead the conversation off-topic?

[19:38:11]

janneg:

sphery: it won't do anything stupid like bytewise compare. that would be prohibitive slow over a slow link

[19:38:28]

pheld:

sphery: wouldn't be running debug-version of trunk in gdb if I had prioritised stability.

[19:38:30]

sphery:

janneg: yeah, I was thinking indirectly through a hash

[19:38:52]

sphery:

Gumby: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/355636#355636

[19:38:53]

janneg:

sphery: it reads chunks of the files and compares iirc md5

[19:39:10]

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[19:39:15]

pheld:

about the new H264Parser, what are peoples experiences?

[19:39:22]

sphery:

yeah, but only if the date/size differ

[19:39:23]

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[19:39:37]

sphery:

I thought it was doing the hashing to see if the files differ

[19:41:46]

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[19:43:42]

janneg:

pheld: so your H264 sources have an IDR (or framenum == 0) frame rarely?

[19:43:48]

pheld:

I had to disable the wait for IDR-frames, oterwise the back-end would take anywhere up to 7 min to recognise and start recording from an HD-channel.

[19:43:58]

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[19:44:56]

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[19:45:06]

janneg:

the behaviour should probably be toggable by wait_for_seqstart

[19:45:18]

Gumby:

hi sphery, I missed the URl you just said. Xchat crashed. Any chance you can repost it?

[19:45:51]

janneg:

and since we know max framenum, we could disable it too if max framenum is large

[19:46:01]

janneg:

Gumby: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/355636#355636

[19:46:05]

Gumby:

thanks sphery

[19:46:09]

Gumby:

err janneg

[19:46:18]

janneg:

your welcome

[19:46:35]

Gumby:

ah yes, I tried that already. it gave me new errors :)

[19:47:04]

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[19:47:06]

sphery:

Gumby: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 56872#356872

[19:47:18]

sphery:

just guessing that those are the new errors

[19:47:19]

Gumby:

do you guys use any scripts to get video covers?

[19:47:27]

Gumby:

hehe. ok

[19:48:25]

sphery:

I think the answer is, eventually, we'll use themoviedb

[19:48:33]

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[19:48:46]

Gumby:

hehe, the ticket gets closed right after that post without any public resolution.

[19:48:48]

gbee:

tmdb.pl

[19:48:57]

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[19:49:12]

sphery:

However, since you're running trunk (therefore, I'm assuming you compile yourself), http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5917

[19:50:02]

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[19:50:17]

sphery:

Gumby: I'm pretty sure it got closed because of the whole, "imdb.pl is a violation of the TOS of the IMDB website, so it's not going to get much love" (and we're probably better off letting it bitrot than fixing it and getting in trouble.

[19:50:33]

Gumby:

sphery: makes sense

[19:51:00]

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[19:51:04]

sphery:

Gumby: I'm guessing, though, that the guy was using SELinux or some other thing that makes Perl usage more strict.

[19:51:05]

pheld:

janneg: should I reopen #5836 with comments about my findings?

[19:52:23]

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[19:54:02]

Anduin:

Gumby: the possible reason was given by the person who opened the ticket

[19:55:33]

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[19:57:35]

Anduin:

Gumby: if you are seeing the errors I do have a use strict; version you could try, was hoping to never commit it though

[20:00:58]

** Gumby is confused now **

[20:02:06]

wagnerrp:

what is stored in oldprogram?

[20:02:44]

pheld:

janneg: tried tried with wait_for_seqstart a couple days ago and got rubbish recordings.

[20:02:53]

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[20:03:31]

Dagmar:

!#!#!

[20:04:03]

Gumby:

Bareword found where operator expected at imdb.pl hehe, even more fun now.

[20:04:55]

Gumby:

I think I see whats going on...

[20:05:17]

Gumby:

dont use wget on an svn link

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[20:32:36]

whodat:

is it just my flash player that can't fast forward/rewind (mythweb)? or is it a bug

[20:32:56]

directhex:

it's a feature of an alpha-grade feature

[20:33:31]

directhex:

and is unlikely to go away given how it currently works

[20:33:39]

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[20:33:44]

whodat:

so i can fix it by what.. getting just mythweb from trunk?

[20:33:56]

Dagmar:

And by patching it extensively

[20:33:59]

Dagmar:

You get to write the patches.

[20:34:11]

whodat:

;)

[20:34:12]

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[20:34:17]

Dagmar:

I kinda feel bad messing with LBP because ther'es kids playin

[20:34:20]

Dagmar:

wrong chan

[20:34:27]

directhex:

when i say "it's just because of the way it's written" what makes you think trunk would change it?

[20:34:31]

whodat:

how about the asx stream, is that capable of fast forward/rewind through vlc?

[20:34:37]

directhex:

if trunk would change it i'd say trunk could change it

[20:34:54]

whodat:

yeah i read that wrong, sorry directhex

[20:36:17]

yfaykya:

Hi all, Having a problem with trunk at the moment where some of my mythvideo files are very "blocky". They play fine in mplayer

[20:39:06]

yfaykya:

This is what -v playback shows during such an event : http://www.pastebin.ca/1277194

[20:43:12]

Dibblah:

Can you narrow it down to a changeset that caused the issue?

[20:43:18]

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[20:44:44]

Dagmar:

Oooh that's a good one

[20:45:32]

gbee:

yfaykya: you aren't using VDPAU are you?

[20:45:45]

yfaykya:

gbee : no

[20:46:02]

yfaykya:

I see a lot of these in – v most : [mpeg4 @ 0xb70c5050]Invalid and inefficient vfw-avi packed B frames detected

[20:46:53]

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[20:47:22]

yfaykya:

Dibblah : I would say it has happened on some file pre vdpau checkins.

[20:49:23]

sphery:

yfaykya: what happens if you build a seektable with mythtranscode --buildindex --video or mythcommflag --rebuild --video

[20:50:53]

sphery:

Dibblah: you're like the Little Engine that Could ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Engine_That_Could ) when it comes to triaging... Never give up. :)

[20:51:50]

yfaykya:

sphery – will try.

[20:52:24]

sphery:

yfaykya: if that works, it's not a proper "fix", but it does indicate where the failure is--in playback of videos without seektables

[20:52:38]

sphery:

the additional information would be helpful in tracking down the fix

[20:53:06]

sphery:

note that you may have to try once with each of mythtranscode and mythcommflag for building the seektable as each works well on different types of video

[20:55:40]

yfaykya:

lots of sql errors from mythtranscode : http://www.pastebin.ca/1277205

[20:56:10]

yfaykya:

mythcommflag rather for above

[20:56:29]

yfaykya:

mythtranscode wants to resize? Is this destructive?

[20:58:21]

wagnerrp:

as in change the resolution?

[20:58:28]

wagnerrp:

sounds lossy

[20:59:01]

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[20:59:28]

yfaykya:

One of first few lines of mythtranscode : 2008-12–05 20:57:55.319 Resizing from 624x352 to 480x576

[21:00:34]

RyeBrye:

Unless it is redefining the use of the word "pixel" that is clearly going to be lossy

[21:01:14]

yfaykya:

Original is : VIDEO: [XVID] 624x352 24bpp 23.976 fps 996.7 kbps (121.7 kbyte/s)

[21:02:08]

wagnerrp:

youre transcoding from xvid... to mpeg4asp?

[21:02:30]

wagnerrp:

i dare say xvid will do a better job compressing than the standardized codec

[21:02:46]

yfaykya:

no I am not! I am trying to debug a playback problem and sphery suggested I run mythtranscode

[21:03:11]

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[21:03:39]

wagnerrp:

oh, youre just trying to build a seektable for the internal player

[21:04:15]

sphery:

yfaykya: you did you --buildindex with mythtranscode, right?

[21:04:42]

yfaykya:

sphery – I am worried that will clobber my file due to the "resizing" line. Is it safe?

[21:04:45]

sphery:

if you use --rebuild, it will be ignored and mythtranscode with think you're trying to , er, transcode

[21:05:02]

yfaykya:

makes sense ;-)

[21:05:02]

sphery:

yfaykya: if you have the right command line it won't resize

[21:05:08]

sphery:

it will only build an index

[21:05:10]

justinh:

gbee: did somebody say someone needs to start on a mythui demo theme? :-)

[21:05:18]

yfaykya:

ok I needed to add -i too

[21:05:26]

wagnerrp:

or a skin, whichever

[21:05:28]

justinh:

I've (really) got some free time coming up

[21:05:34]

** justinh slaps wagnerrp **

[21:06:12]

yfaykya:

justinh: I think blootube is a good starting point ;-)

[21:06:15]

** yfaykya ducks **

[21:06:28]

justinh:

blootube can burn in hell thanks

[21:06:35]

yfaykya:

sphery : seg fault

[21:07:07]

justinh:

this will be about throwing all the old ways out of the window (assuming that better ones can be found)

[21:07:27]

justinh:

then again I dunno if I'm up to the job... but then who else would do it?

[21:07:31]

yfaykya:

http://www.pastebin.ca/1277217 is the run of mythtranscode

[21:07:40]

sphery:

justinh: the only requirement is that it finally silence all the "Why doesn't Myth just use XBMC as it's UI?" people once and for all

[21:07:52]

justinh:

sphery: heh. not asking for much then

[21:08:06]

justinh:

gaffer tape, some concrete & a nail gun would do that job as well

[21:08:37]

yfaykya:

poor blootube. I love that theme.

[21:08:55]

yfaykya:

Would love to know mostly widely used theme.

[21:09:06]

justinh:

sphery: so in order to compete with XBMC are mythui screens going to spend inordinate amounts of time with nothing onscreen between transitions? :P

[21:09:46]

sphery:

justinh: I guess we need to if everyone loves XBMC so much. And make sure you put in eye candy for eye candy's sake, too--nothing practical or useful. :)

[21:09:55]

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[21:10:01]

justinh:

the only ballache about doing 'the next theme' is that it'll have to cover plugins I couldn't give a rat's ass about

[21:10:05]

sphery:

yfaykya: don't worry about trying to build the seektable, then.

[21:10:11]

wagnerrp:

i think blootube needs more hannah montana

[21:10:17]

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[21:10:18]

yfaykya:

sphery: I should probably log that seg fault bug but poor Dibblah would have a hernia. Will wait till bugs are down to 599 again :-)

[21:10:33]

Dibblah:

Log the bug.

[21:10:35]

gbee:

justinh: I'd love for someone to start on something, obviously can't be finished until the port is and there are additions I want to make to mythui (hopefully before 0.22) but it would be nice to ship 0.22 with at least one decent theme close to completion or even ready to go

[21:10:49]

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[21:10:56]

justinh:

wagnerrp: I think all the :3 themes should be canned – so juust aswell I'm not in charge

[21:11:01]

justinh:

4:3, even

[21:11:14]

justinh:

gbee: well I already have some ideas

[21:11:16]

yfaykya:

Dibblah – Do I need to do a full debug build for mythtranscode or is that dir enough?

[21:11:22]

directhex:

justinh, how about detecting 4:3 screens and doing an rm -rf / ?

[21:11:46]

justinh:

directhex: you do the patch, I'll commit it. what happens after that won't be up to me ;)

[21:12:00]

Dibblah:

If you get a segfault, you need to follow the debugging instructions in the Mythtv manual.

[21:12:57]

yfaykya:

Dibblah : K. thank $deity financee is away on her hen

[21:13:07]

justinh:

good job I've not taken loonix off my laptop then anyway

[21:13:15]

gbee:

justinh: better if it's done by someone who has a clue what might be possible and the vision to suggest small imrpovements, or add data to screens where I failed to do it during the conversion (I didn't give the same level of attention to screens that I did others, so there is scope for improvement)

[21:13:43]

justinh:

gbee: so that pretty much rules me out then

[21:13:56]

gbee:

justinh: on the contrary

[21:14:05]

justinh:

you reckon?

[21:14:13]

justinh:

I'll give it a shot anyway

[21:15:09]

gbee:

if it helps your sense of self-worthlessness, then I'm sure there are better qualified people, but you are all we've got :p

[21:15:18]

justinh:

any preferences on the overall look? I'm starting to think shiny is on its way out

[21:15:34]

justinh:

I've been thinking about going flat & minimal

[21:15:50]

justinh:

hrm, nah eye candy needs bling

[21:15:57]

justinh:

gbee: rofl

[21:16:06]

gbee:

justinh: people do love shiny though, but there is a growing trend for matt with rounded corners etc – Boxee is an example of that

[21:16:14]

justinh:

gbee: that's actually exactly how it is

[21:16:33]

justinh:

you should see Ableton as an example of a brilliantly functional design

[21:17:23]

justinh:

worth every penny, that program

[21:17:31]

gbee:

justinh: it's bad enough that I continually self-deprecate, but two of us might be too much for the community to bear

[21:18:22]

justinh:

gbee: well, the main thing is, of all the people who are qualified, there are only a very limited number of people prepared to actually DO anything as opposed to the people who carp on about what they would do "if only I had the time"

[21:18:24]

gbee:

simplicity, maybe not in style but in content is always a winner

[21:19:21]

justinh:

I just hope I don't end up bending your ear so much that you might as well have done it yourself ;-)

[21:19:48]

sphery:

not to mention that there are few who would actually bring something /new/ to the table (a few people in this channel being the only exceptions I can think of)

[21:19:57]

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[21:20:50]

justinh:

well, how's about this for a brief then.. minimal yet eye-catching & appliance-like ?

[21:21:17]

Dibblah:

Bloody thing.

[21:21:29]

Dibblah:

Now I'm just making a hash of things.

[21:21:45]

justinh:

or more like, squiggle my crayons around for a few nights & curl something out ;-)

[21:22:04]

Dibblah:

justinh: I'm giving what time I can in the way I can. Unfortunately, it appears that I suck at it :(

[21:22:17]

justinh:

Dibblah: better than not doing owt though

[21:22:24]

justinh:

I think I earned my rest

[21:23:38]

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[21:23:39]

sphery:

justinh: And, in case you're extremely bored, if the patch I've uploaded to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5759 gets committed, there's a new button without an image/watermark/whatever it's called (One for "Manage Recording Rules".) Don't know if it's one we should just reuse an existent image or if it should have its own.

[21:23:46]

Dibblah:

justinh: I remain to be convinced of that.

[21:23:54]

Dibblah:

(better than nothing, I mean)

[21:23:56]

justinh:

gbee: this time I think I'll log all the time I spend on everything

[21:25:36]

justinh:

ruh? this is new.. emmerdale didn't record.. "the recorder failed"

[21:25:41]

gbee:

justinh: design is up to you, but you might make life easier if you stick to a common layout, e.g. if you decide to place the clock on every screen (or at least on those screens where it most matters) then always put it in the same position

[21:25:52]

justinh:

myth knows the recorder failed in 0.21?

[21:26:07]

justinh:

gbee: hell yeah

[21:27:23]

** justinh goes into t' log **

[21:27:36]

gbee:

justinh: that way you get the most of inheritance too, you define one style and position for a clock then on each screen it's used you just 'from="baseclock"'

[21:27:39]

sphery:

Dibblah: and some (crazy people, because of limitations) are looking to get Myth on Openmoko FreeRunner. But, we left the blue-faces-without-MMX bug unfixed because it was a perfect indicator that packages/self-compiled binaries were built wrong.

[21:27:50]

** gbee is doing that with the page titles in metallurgy **

[21:28:03]

Dibblah:

sphery: I remember the history.

[21:28:06]

justinh:

2008-12–05 19:00:05.865 Canceled recording (Recorder Failed): Emmerdale: channel 1006 on cardid 1, sourceid 1

[21:28:12]

justinh:

hrm

[21:28:45]

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[21:29:16]

gbee:

aerial connected? Still on the roof? card driver failure in dmesg? card driver loaded? drivers loaded in the wrong order causing a DVB-S card to be swapped for DVB-T?

[21:29:36]

gbee:

channels moved?

[21:29:49]

sphery:

How in the world could someone get 930Mbps throughput on a gigabit link?

[21:30:01]

justinh:

gbee: nah nothing like that.

[21:30:06]

justinh:

not as far as I know anyway

[21:30:07]

LanUser:

Hello – of the two files here --> ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/180.11/ is pkg1 just a newer version or is it 64bit?

[21:30:39]

justinh:

femon is reporting the tuner is locked etc.. maybe ITV went off air for a bit

[21:30:43]

Chutt:

iirc, the pkg1, pkg0, pkg2 stuff just includes different pre-compiled kernel bits

[21:30:58]

gbee:

go for pkg2 every time

[21:31:38]

justinh:

gbee: anyway coronation st recorded fine from the same tuner

[21:31:49]

gbee:

I believe that 0 and 1 contain the kernel module and the X driver – to make life easier for packagers, but I could be wrong

[21:31:59]

Dibblah:

gbee: Shouldnt "DVB scanning – remaining issues" be assigned to daniel?

[21:32:53]

gbee:

Dibblah: assign to Daniel yeah, not sure he has the time to work on it, but he wrote the branch and is the only one familiar with it at the moment

[21:33:18]

Dibblah:

Yeah, that's the issue with branches / patches sitting waiting :)

[21:33:19]

yfaykya:

how do I run gdb on a prog with args?

[21:33:31]

justinh:

well, I'll just put it down to 'one of those things' then. can't say I've ever seen that error here – or indeed even heard of it

[21:35:10]

yfaykya:

nm. got it

[21:35:14]

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[21:35:25]

sphery:

yfaykya: http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#ss22.2 read teh gdbcommands file carefully, and I think you'll figure it out :)

[21:36:32]

yfaykya:

yeah I found it! I had a previous one and had forgotten about it

[21:39:41]

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[21:41:54]

LanUser:

gbee: there only pkg0 and pkg1 and pgk1 is twice the size of pkg0, so pkg1 would be the better of the two you think?

[21:42:33]

gbee:

LanUser: are you on 32bit or 64bit?

[21:42:52]

LanUser:

32bit

[21:43:04]

LanUser:

I guess they are both 32bit, I figured that much out

[21:43:24]

gbee:

ok, I'd guess pkg1 – for 64bit there is a pkg2

[21:45:16]

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[21:49:29]

sphery:

Harmony 880 for $79.99 free S&H (on sale for $20 off with an extra $10 off with coupon code) at newegg with coupon code EMCBCAFBA .

[21:50:53]

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[21:52:20]

Josh_Borke:

is mythtv trunk in a usable/stable state?

[21:53:06]

sphery:

kormoc: Were you using 180.11 drivers with your card? Sounds like you might want to roll back to 180.08 (as that may be the problem--not your patch--meaning you might not have bricked your GPU).

[21:54:44]

kormoc:

sphery, I rolled back to .08 and .06 and both versions gave the same results, but that was before the power cycle, so might be worth giving it a go again

[21:54:59]

gbee:

Josh_Borke: that's a pretty subjective question, most of the devs run it 24/7 but then we're willing to put up with certain small things being broken or we don't use features which might be broken – it's pretty stable for normal use, but the feature you want to upgrade for may not be

[21:55:06]

sphery:

kormoc: good luck, then

[21:55:13]

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[21:55:31]

justinh:

time to leeboot

[21:55:35]

justinh:

into loonix!

[21:55:44]

Josh_Borke:

gbee: that's a perfect answer for me :-) i wouldn't use it for anything other than watching tv/recordings/videos which I would assume (hopefully not incorrectly) to be the normal use

[21:55:57]

sphery:

Josh_Borke: and, really, if you can stay on -fixes, it makes your life much easier

[21:56:44]

sphery:

If you feel you can't wait for HD-PVR or VDPAU (which are probably really more want than need, but that's another story), then you could run trunk, but otherwise...

[21:56:53]

Josh_Borke:

ok

[21:57:19]

gbee:

probably wouldn't be what I call girlfriend or wife ready, i.e. the lack of -wide or hell decent themes for converted plugins (mythvideo)

[21:59:17]

sphery:

I had a wonderful 8 months where I didn't change anything on my 5 -fixes production systems and, though I have trunk on a dev system, IMHO, there's nothing in it that's worth upgrading my production systems to unstable trunk (=that's worth the effort involved in keeping them up-to-date/fixing issues/... ). My production boxes will be very happy on 0.21-fixes until 0.22 is released (when they'll be happy on 0.22-fixes :).

[22:00:05]

sphery:

no offense, gbee--your stuff is great and will be /well/ worthwhile when 0.22 is released, but it's not something that's worth trading the stability of -fixes for on my production systems. :)

[22:00:30]

Josh_Borke:

thanks for the advice :-)

[22:01:53]

gbee:

sphery: why would I take offence? my production system runs 0.21 :) I wouldn't want friends/relatives to try using trunk in it's current state – it might be usable and stable, but it's not polished

[22:02:33]

sphery:

Josh_Borke: Oh, and I'm not trying to discourage you, just saying that with -fixes you get a DVR (=digital video recorder), with trunk, you get a hobby/DVR (=developer video recorder)

[22:03:00]

sphery:

gbee: cool. same approach I'm taking

[22:03:08]

sphery:

wonder if that's the dying gasps of my PSU...

[22:03:15]

sphery:

Sounds like a heavy truck backing up.

[22:03:15]

gbee:

the default theme I've constructed for trunk is little more than a placeholder, I've spent 1/10th of the time on it than should rightly be spent on a proper theme and it really shows

[22:03:59]

gbee:

sphery: just check that a truck isn't reversing into the building first

[22:04:12]

sphery:

that would kill the dying PSU

[22:04:21]

gbee:

and you

[22:04:38]

sphery:

I just hope it will hold out for a bit longer... I missed the last Antec Earthwatts sale at newegg--now they're 2x the price.

[22:05:03]

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[22:05:14]

^Zunni^:

I think I'm a little insane but....

[22:05:44]

sphery:

Yeah, truck would likely take me out... Though, my Dad walked into a building (his insurance company, no less) and was run over by a woman who drove through the wall in her Cadillac. (My dad survived--just has a very messed up back, now.)

[22:06:13]

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[22:06:35]

** sphery awaits description of insanity **

[22:07:02]

^Zunni^:

I have an Xbox360 that is a pain to read DVD's on (just doesn't want to), my mythtv box is in the basement, could I share my windows DVD-Rom to my Linux box downstairs, have Myth detect and play DVD's on it which could be played through UPnP to my 360?

[22:07:04]

gbee:

themes are hard work, especially when creating them from scratch, I've spent over 30 minutes already on the 'help' icon explaination popup for the watch recordings screen ... it's a dozen images and associated textareas, but lining it all up, getting the image names correct etc ... takes way too much time

[22:07:27]

LanUser:

I'm curious to see if the HD-PVR sample file plays better with the 180.11 beta driver, it was pretty choppy even on a quad core with 177.82

[22:07:45]

gbee:

sphery: that sucks

[22:08:03]

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[22:08:29]

gbee:

LanUser: you did tell myth to use all four cores right?

[22:08:54]

gbee:

oh wait, HD-PVR is single sliced ... so 20 cores would improve the situation

[22:08:58]

directhex:

^Zunni^, the xbox 360 does not allow mpeg2 data to be played over a network

[22:09:01]

gbee:

wouldn't

[22:09:41]

^Zunni^:

directhex, so I could share the DVD and probably get Myth to play it off my ROM upstairs but not get it the last step to my Xbox..

[22:10:49]

sphery:

^Zunni^: generally DVD's aren't mounted when played back--instead, they're accessed directly

[22:11:04]

gbee:

my new monitor better show up soon, miss not being able to watch TV with one eye while I work

[22:11:11]

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[22:11:29]

sphery:

^Zunni^: so, really, the only hope for using a DVD /drive/ across the network is using network block device or using some hack like the MPlayer network DVD hack (one of the readmes in MPlayer explains it--or was it in xine...)

[22:11:56]

gbee:

or rip the DVDs and play back the ISOs

[22:12:28]

^Zunni^:

that's looking like my better option, I'll just take the DVD and convert it to an XVid avi, those play A-OK :)

[22:12:29]

gbee:

or vobs, or whatever file you've re-encoded (which would take more time)

[22:12:32]

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[22:14:05]

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[22:14:29]

^Zunni^:

thanks guys!!! Always get great help from here... as always appreciated :)

[22:18:23]

sphery:

Yeah, ripping is the best option

[22:18:38]

sphery:

And, with cheap HDD's is becoming a better and better option.

[22:19:22]

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[22:23:08]

justinh:

wow this myth is taking yonks to compile

[22:23:13]

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[22:23:58]

at0m|c:

sphery, do you play .iso's directly or did you tell your wife how to mount -o loop the iso from the command line?

[22:24:07]

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[22:24:18]

** at0m|c looking for a nice way to directly play iso files in myth **

[22:24:27]

sphery:

at0m|c: MythVideo will play ISO's directly

[22:24:33]

sphery:

use Internal

[22:25:10]

** at0m|c will try first thing in the morning **

[22:25:15]

at0m|c:

wow that'd be nice

[22:25:27]

at0m|c:

cheers

[22:26:24]

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[22:36:31]

gbee:

complete with menus etc

[22:37:56]

sphery:

gbee: weren't you having some problems with ITV3 ?

[22:38:23]

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[22:38:28]

gbee:

ITV HD, not with ITV 3 as far as I recall

[22:38:48]

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[22:39:12]

sphery:

Oh, thought http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008 . . . /240910.html might be the same thing (it suggests a workaround--implies Myth's channel scanner is getting the wrong serviceid)

[22:39:55]

justinh:

gbee: FYI even freesat boxes have problems with ITV HD ;-)

[22:41:05]

justinh:

guy at work just hopped on the FTA HD bandwagon – he says ITV HD switches to SD for the adverts & then he has to press the red button to go back to HD.. at which point the box usually crashes

[22:41:29]

sphery:

Just deleted almost 1TB of recordings from an ext3 filesystem in only about 1minute... Not bad for ext3. (Of course, to do so, I used mke2fs, so it's probably not a good general solution for speeding up deletes on ext3 filesystems.)

[22:41:50]

gbee:

sphery: hmm, that's a bug – scan should pick up on changes to serviceid

[22:42:08]

justinh:

I might have to file a bug for aspect ratio change crashes at some point

[22:43:17]

gbee:

I have to find some space somewhere, I want to resize a media partition but need to shift off ~100Gb of recordings first

[22:43:21]

sphery:

gbee: Yeah, sounded like a bug--though I haven't verified what he's saying (my antenna doesn't pick up signals from across the pond, so I can't test with ITV stuff :). I just figured if you were experiencing the same issue, it might a) help you and b) cause you to fix it right.

[22:44:27]

gbee:

justinh: nasty, yeah ITV HD's solution for things is pretty hacky atm, hoping they'll see sense and make it a proper standalone channel

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[23:10:37]

high-rez:

chutt: Have you gotten vc-1 working with vdpau?

[23:12:56]

wagnerrp:

which themes are maintained on trunk? just gant and blue?

[23:14:56]

Chutt:

high-rez, no supported hardware?

[23:19:12]

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[23:20:07]

justinh:

wagnerrp: all the core themes & I still chuck the occasional fix into /themes

[23:20:58]

wagnerrp:

so anything in /myththemes should be fair grame, and if not, its acceptable to complain under trac?

[23:21:04]

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[23:21:18]

justinh:

don't hold your breath for all /themes to be brought up to scratch with mythui changes though. when I get my wheels turning my plan is to literally blow em out of the water

[23:22:15]

justinh:

is it ever acceptable to complain about themes? ;)

[23:22:37]

gbee:

wagnerrp: I'd not be so sure, I've failed to sell it to Chutt etc, but I think some of the older themes should be culled

[23:23:03]

justinh:

btw what I mean by 'blow em out of the water' is make something so new & fresh people will literally forget all about the old crud

[23:23:08]

gbee:

or at least moved until someone steps forward to convert them

[23:24:12]

justinh:

gbee: yeah but like we keep saying, bring on the new boys & hope people will forget about the old ones

[23:24:59]

** dustybin looks forward to a re-vamped Titivillus **

[23:25:15]

gbee:

and I'd really like to insist that any port doesn't just do the bare minimum necessary, but brings some of those themes upto a decent standard

[23:25:32]

justinh:

dustybin: so I'll make sure any new changes require > 128MB ram then :P

[23:25:55]

gbee:

simply taking what is there now and doing a straight port isn't enough because many of theme weren't upto scratch to start with

[23:25:56]

wagnerrp:

but then i cant run mythtv on my xbox...

[23:25:57]

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[23:26:21]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: is it possible to run a frontend on a xbox 360 ?

[23:26:30]

justinh:

there's nothing to stop anybody rolling up their sleeves & having a go

[23:26:31]

wagnerrp:

i meant originall

[23:26:38]

wagnerrp:

but i dont actually have one of those either

[23:26:51]

justinh:

help is available, so long as the questions people ask aren't too damn needy

[23:26:58]

high-rez:

chutt: Ahh. Yeah, it doesn't seem like the supported hardware is very available...

[23:27:08]

dustybin:

justinh: ive already devoted some webspace for a future mythtv theme

[23:27:30]

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[23:27:42]

justinh:

I started helping one guy & he didn't have the first clue about XML even

[23:27:44]

gbee:

dustybin: that's the way to start ...

[23:27:57]

justinh:

start with mockups..

[23:27:58]

sphery:

justinh: You're doing Visor-mythui, right? ;)

[23:28:12]

justinh:

Visor?

[23:28:35]

justinh:

argghh!

[23:28:45]

sphery:

was looking for some images...

[23:28:50]

justinh:

ahem..

[23:28:52]

wagnerrp:

the PDA?

[23:28:54]

sphery:

figured you'd remember it

[23:29:10]

sphery:

Here's some: http://mythextra.napsi.net/mythFM.html

[23:29:17]

high-rez:

chutt: Does the 256 meg limitation still exist? My 256 meg card seems to work in mythfrontend...

[23:29:19]

sphery:

the clouds one

[23:29:24]

sphery:

http://mythextra.napsi.net/images/screenshots/mythFM-2.png

[23:29:26]

Chutt:

high-rez, how would i know?

[23:29:30]

Chutt:

there's never been a set limit

[23:30:02]

justinh:

sphery: ugh, thought it was that one

[23:30:48]

gbee:

I'll shoot anyone who re-uses those old images, or for that matter creates a theme which uses any default theme image

[23:31:00]

sphery:

lol

[23:31:16]

sphery:

Yeah, though a friend disagrees with me, I think the death of visor was a good thing

[23:31:17]

justinh:

gbee: btw it should be pretty simple to spin out 2 variations on a theme – one blingy glossy one & one flat, more monotone version quite easily

[23:31:51]

justinh:

blue backgrounds will always be the most popular for some reason

[23:32:15]

justinh:

gbee: also any theme which only redoes the menus ;)

[23:32:29]

justinh:

that's not a theme!

[23:32:42]

kormoc:

Simple 4 life!

[23:33:57]

gbee:

justinh: well blue just happens to work for most people, it's a colour which provides reasonably good contrast with foreground text or images, no-one really hates blue

[23:34:30]

justinh:

plus blue has always worked best on PAL/NTSC TVs

[23:34:51]

justinh:

better than solid reds, anyway

[23:35:30]

gbee:

personally I'd like to see a good green theme, or just for variety something in orange hues, pinks or a mix of colours (thinking kid friendly theme especially)

[23:35:59]

justinh:

yeah the kid theme is still on that damn list. and so is one for 'older viewers'

[23:36:15]

gbee:

don't think a red theme is possible, read just isn't muted enough no matter what the shade

[23:36:15]

kormoc:

I'm a huge fan of G.A.N.T

[23:36:22]

kormoc:

the gray is nice

[23:36:28]

justinh:

kormoc: somebody has to be :P

[23:36:33]

gbee:

greys and blacks work well

[23:36:48]

kormoc:

if only it was wide screen...

[23:36:57]

justinh:

though I submit that for all I hate it, I've tried to love it enough to improve it

[23:37:02]

kormoc:

so now I'm on Metalurgy – Blue

[23:37:23]

gbee:

for constrast reasons and being muted enough not to distract

[23:37:45]

gbee:

metallurgy blue? There's such a thing?

[23:37:51]

justinh:

I appreciate the skill involved in the icon drawing, but I'm no fan of the style

[23:37:56]

kormoc:

well, the blue button color

[23:38:03]

gbee:

oh right ... duh

[23:38:45]

kormoc:

gbee, IMHO you really should toss that into myth's svn :)

[23:38:50]

justinh:

y'know the big problem with using generic icon packs is finding suitable graphics to use as myth-friendly pictograms

[23:39:10]

gbee:

kormoc: I probably will for 0.22, right about the time I start work on something new

[23:39:22]

justinh:

we need a really shit-hot icon designer to help out IMHO

[23:39:38]

RyeBrye:

Icons are really hard to design well

[23:39:41]

justinh:

I'm better than I used to be, but still...

[23:39:57]

RyeBrye:

What kind of icons do you need?

[23:39:58]

justinh:

RyeBrye: easier when they can be large, though ;)

[23:40:15]

RyeBrye:

I could do it, but I'm REALLY busy right now with work for the next week or two

[23:40:21]

justinh:

RyeBrye: mythtv watermark icons, all the stuff where myth uses pictures to represent stuff

[23:40:40]

gbee:

right now the license terms I've got it under conflict with Chutt's ideology ... so I'd have to re-license it, probably under the GPL

[23:40:44]

RyeBrye:

Like the HDTV icons or whatnot on the program guide... etc?

[23:40:55]

justinh:

all the bog standard media stuff, plus representations of TV guide data, type icons.. yada yada

[23:41:18]

justinh:

preferably all in the same style

[23:41:21]

RyeBrye:

What kind of style are you looking for?

[23:41:29]

justinh:

modern, simple

[23:41:38]

RyeBrye:

Yeah, I'd build them from scratch – basic line art works best imo

[23:41:42]

justinh:

line drawing

[23:41:46]

justinh:

heh

[23:41:59]

justinh:

where've you been all this time?

[23:42:05]

RyeBrye:

busy :)

[23:42:06]

gbee:

one of the reasons the icons in Metallurgy are flat white is to hide the fact that I can't really draw, if I had to use some colour and shade things better, well I couldn't pull it off

[23:42:33]

justinh:

watermarks would be ok as shaded objects... smaller elements less so

[23:43:02]

RyeBrye:

I grew up as a graphic designer (i.e. my dad was one and I worked for him) and did it for a while, but I'm a programmer now – but I still keep up with graphics stuff too :)

[23:43:24]

justinh:

RyeBrye: I won't ask you for a professional opinion of my own works then

[23:43:45]

justinh:

wouldn't count anyway since I'm only a dabbler & only ever claimed to be :)

[23:44:02]

RyeBrye:

I don't think your stuff is that bad – it works – and you did it... which is cool because I haven't bothered to do any myth themes

[23:44:45]

gbee:

there was a guy in here a few weeks ago, he'd been contracted to create a mythtv theme by a company who were investigating using myth for some project – his portfolio made me cry, he could DRAW – not icons, buttons etc but real artwork

[23:44:47]

justinh:

I haven't been unhappy enough with glass-wide to cast it into /dev/null so that says something for it

[23:44:48]

RyeBrye:

My dad is off the hook when it comes to pen-and-ink illustrations and calligraphy stuff...

[23:45:24]

justinh:

in my early teens my life-drawing was amazing (if I do say so myself)

[23:45:27]

RyeBrye:

I ran with that one you made for a while... I am running with that modified mepo one right now but the teal is starting to annoy me

[23:45:38]

RyeBrye:

justinh: you know, life drawing is more than just the boobs though ;)

[23:45:43]

justinh:

heh

[23:45:53]

justinh:

I was getting A+ for my art homeworks

[23:46:18]

justinh:

all went down the crapper when I turned 14 though

[23:46:28]

justinh:

got my 1st computer :P

[23:46:53]

justinh:

and the ZX81 didn't do graphics

[23:48:20]

directhex:

hm. i find it mildly odd that Philips make vibrators

[23:48:23]

directhex:

and that amazon stock them

[23:48:52]

justinh:

massagers!

[23:49:06]

kormoc:

why not? it's the sort of product testing that keeps the awesome engineers at philips :)

[23:49:44]

justinh:

directhex: Boots sell em apparently.. though prolly not Philips ones

[23:50:24]

directhex:

justinh, well there's the durex disposable ones too

[23:50:32]

gbee:

justinh: I've never been an artist or artistic, but I've always had a knack for painstackingly recreating an image – my earliest drawing memorys were freehand drawing some detailed stencils that the teacher had handed out – everyone else was drawing around them but I found it more interesting to copy it by eye, later on, aged 8/9 I'd construct scenes based on objects I knew well or could refer to – e.g. my Brittain toy tractor -

[23:50:33]

gbee:

I'd spend days/weeks drawing in extreme detail a single scene – brick by brick the walls of an old farmhouse, the engine of the tractor etc

[23:50:39]

Dibblah:

The ZX81 _DID_ do graphics.

[23:51:19]

justinh:

Dibblah: of sorts..

[23:51:29]

directhex:

justinh, denied! http://www.boots.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle . . . alogId=11051

[23:52:08]

justinh:

I said probably mr directhex .. it's not the kind of gadget I go looking for

[23:52:11]

wagnerrp:

holy hell! 88 pounds?

[23:52:23]

RyeBrye:

88 pound vibrator?

[23:52:26]

RyeBrye:

or is that a jackhammer?

[23:52:27]

kormoc:

gbee, that's amazing

[23:52:43]

justinh:

gbee: sounds artistic to me!

[23:52:49]

directhex:

wagnerrp, pretty pricy

[23:53:11]

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[23:53:21]

gbee:

none of it would win awards and frequently I'd never finished because I'd get bored after working on the same picture for so long ... but I was very proud of what I did, because it was better than the even the most artistic kids in the class could manage, even if it took me 5x longer and wasn't the result of talent but just extreme patience and an eye for detail

[23:53:31]

justinh:

my wife's had to buy about 5 for a friend of hers this year. Janet keeps breaking her Rampant Rabbit.. or just wearing it out. lol

[23:53:53]

RyeBrye:

'for a friend' ;)

[23:53:56]

justinh:

too nervous to shop for em herself.. that's the part that makes me laugh. dirty minx

[23:54:04]

directhex:

justinh, they DO have a finite life on them. but 5 in a year is... a lot

[23:54:25]

justinh:

directhex: yeah I'd have said so

[23:54:42]

kormoc:

I bet she's quite the happy lady none the less

[23:55:05]

justinh:

she's always complaining the men she meets never quite meet expectations.. I wonder why

[23:55:05]

gbee:

never took art classes later on and I don't draw now, aside from the simple artwork for a mythtv theme or a website

[23:55:19]

wagnerrp:

fire-and-forget

[23:55:27]

wagnerrp:

just leaves it in there until the battery wears out...

[23:56:05]

justinh:

aaanyway.. this being a family friendly channel & all..

[23:56:12]

kormoc:

oh right...

[23:56:20]

directhex:

justinh is family-friendly now?

[23:56:37]

wagnerrp:

hey, if you know what were talking about, you dont qualify as someone with the right to be offended

[23:56:46]

justinh:

haven't effed online for some time AFAIK

[23:57:05]

justinh:

not the tourrettes boy I used to be

[23:57:30]

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[23:58:45]

kormoc:

directhex, you wouldn't let justinh watch your kids?

[23:59:04]

justinh:

did I say kid friendly? lol

[23:59:11]

Dibblah:

Stupid design.

[23:59:19]

directhex:

kormoc, i'd let him watch caged animals. not so sure about kids

[23:59:29]

kormoc:

so cage your kids?

[23:59:35]

Dibblah:

It's got an internal cable (inside the sleeve) that is flexed by... Usage.

[23:59:52]

Dibblah:

So it does die quite quickly, if mistreated.

[23:59:56]

Dibblah:

Allegedly.

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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