| Thursday, October 16th, 2008, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:11] | darkdrgn2k: | lol i didnt wanan do the home made stuff.. wanted an easy fix.. guess its not so easy after all.. |
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| [00:00:20] | darkdrgn2k: | gave my good remote to my sister :( |
| [00:00:20] | wolfspirit: | ozymandias2: do you have myth-backend installed? |
| [00:01:24] | iamlindoro: | You don't have mythtv-setup without the backend installed... |
| [00:01:38] | ozymandias2: | wolfspirit yes, and it is not running ATM |
| [00:02:13] | wolfspirit: | iamlindoro: well I know ubuntu has a built in script that tells you you need mythbackend if you run it.. I thought something like that was happening |
| [00:02:27] | J-e-f-f-A: | darkdrgn2k: Trade her back for one of these, especially if she's running winblows... ;-) |
| [00:02:46] | iamlindoro: | wolfspirit, you should read more carefully. The script pops up a message to say that mythbackend must be stopped before running it. |
| [00:02:48] | darkdrgn2k: | J-e-f-f-A: if what is running winblows? |
| [00:02:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | darkdrgn2k: Your sister... |
| [00:02:58] | iamlindoro: | before running mythtv-setup, that is. |
| [00:03:10] | wolfspirit: | ozymandias2: did you create a database for it? also.. did you try running it from a terminal? |
| [00:03:20] | darkdrgn2k: | J-e-f-f-A: nop.. myth front and backend :) |
| [00:03:21] | wolfspirit: | iamlindoro: no I meant if you try running it before it's installed it says that |
| [00:03:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | darkdrgn2k: DOH! ;-) |
| [00:03:41] | iamlindoro: | wolfspirit, That's not a script, that's apt saying mythtv-setup isn't installed if you haven't installed a backend. |
| [00:04:13] | iamlindoro: | wolfspirit, ergo, his having an issue *within* mythtv-setup means that by definition, he has a backend installed. |
| [00:04:14] | darkdrgn2k: | J-e-f-f-A: mostly for dvd import... |
| [00:04:17] | wolfspirit: | iamlindoro: that's probably true :P |
| [00:04:29] | ozymandias2: | I ran the db command that sets up the initial DB, and i did run it from a terminal... the only errors I see are 'mythtv: could not connect to socket' and 'mythtv: no such file or directory' |
| [00:04:50] | iamlindoro: | Those are lirc errors, can be ignored. |
| [00:05:37] | ozymandias2: | I can run through 'general' with no issues, and the other tabs seem to be fine — just the capture configuration |
| [00:06:15] | wolfspirit: | ozymandias2: oh so you can actually get into it.. I thought you said it hung up as you were loading it |
| [00:06:55] | wolfspirit: | ozymandias2: I'm not an expert with mythtv but maybe it's having an issue with your capture card? If it's a card on the first setting it should auto detect the card |
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| [00:07:40] | ozymandias2: | oh, no, when it is loading the capture settings... I can select 'new capture card', and then it hangs. |
| [00:07:48] | ozymandias2: | i already tried disabling selinux |
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| [00:09:01] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: What do you see on the terminal window that you ran mythtv-setup from? Sounds like the table may not be there, or perhaps another un-handled SQL error... |
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| [00:10:09] | ozymandias2: | checking again, but I don't recall seeing anything |
| [00:10:25] | ozymandias2: | nothing... |
| [00:10:28] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: ... You might have to run it with "-v all" to get verbose messaging... |
| [00:10:38] | ozymandias2: | alright |
| [00:12:43] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: And remember to use a pastebin if you don't understand it's output... ;-) |
| [00:13:14] | ozymandias2: | ;-) |
| [00:13:37] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: Any clues in the output? |
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| [00:13:47] | ozymandias2: | nothing that I see |
| [00:14:52] | ozymandias2: | http://pastebin.com/m3305e88d |
| [00:15:07] | ozymandias2: | it dies with no errors |
| [00:17:01] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: So it's hanging at that point, right? |
| [00:17:05] | ozymandias2: | Yeah |
| [00:17:10] | ozymandias2: | still sitting there |
| [00:17:25] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: Is it taking alot of cpu? (check with 'top') |
| [00:17:35] | iamlindoro: | ozymandias2, how did you install myth? If from source, which branch? |
| [00:18:29] | ozymandias2: | it is using a lot of CPU, load 8.11 (5 and 10 min: 7.43, and 5.60 respectivley) |
| [00:18:52] | ozymandias2: | iamlindoro I installed with packages, using the fedora install guide on the wiki @ mythtv.org |
| [00:19:22] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: humm... sounds like it's looping, and not waiting on SQL... |
| [00:19:53] | ** J-e-f-f-A takes a peek at the guide on the wiki... ** | |
| [00:20:19] | ozymandias2: | Yeah |
| [00:20:20] | ozymandias2: | one sec |
| [00:20:39] | ozymandias2: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_MythTV_on_Fedora |
| [00:20:48] | ozymandias2: | just so we are on the same page |
| [00:21:18] | mzb_d800: | ozymandias2: have you tried: sudo taskset -c 0 mythtv-setup ... |
| [00:21:45] | ozymandias2: | nope |
| [00:22:13] | ozymandias2: | it's a single core box |
| [00:22:19] | mzb_d800: | as is mine |
| [00:22:28] | mzb_d800: | sometimes end up with errors |
| [00:22:36] | mzb_d800: | the two solutions I've used are: |
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| [00:22:44] | mzb_d800: | keep trying mythtv-setup until it works |
| [00:22:50] | mzb_d800: | _and/or_ |
| [00:22:55] | mzb_d800: | sudo taskset |
| [00:23:25] | mzb_d800: | (ie: with problems involving mythtv-setup) |
| [00:24:33] | mzb_d800: | also note that running mythtv-setup with "-O ThemePainter=qt" might help if it's using opengl painter by default |
| [00:25:02] | mzb_d800: | _disable_ logging (that also causes me issues at times) ... ie no "-v" option |
| [00:25:04] | J-e-f-f-A: | hey darkdrgn — check out the link ozymandias2 posted... a little more than 1/2 way down "Warning for newer Hauppauge MCE Remotes" – perhaps it applies for yours too? |
| [00:25:26] | mzb_d800: | darkdrgn: tried replacing the batteries in the remote? |
| [00:27:04] | mzb_d800: | (for me, the "receiver led staying lit" issue has either been poor remote batteries, or interrupted signal path) |
| [00:28:12] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: I have that issue, but only when I dim the 'dimmable flourescent' in my bedroom... strange it doesn't interfere at full brightness, just when dimmed... |
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| [00:28:38] | mzb_d800: | interesting |
| [00:29:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: And it's 10' away from the receiver, in the corner of my bedroom... with a shade over it...strange... |
| [00:29:12] | mzb_d800: | lesson learned: don't use fluoro's ;) |
| [00:29:43] | iamlindoro: | LCDs blast out IR too |
| [00:29:58] | iamlindoro: | usually just when they get turned on, though |
| [00:30:06] | mzb_d800: | I've just moved into a house with upward-facing lights in the lounge ... can't install dimmer :( *sigh* |
| [00:30:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: Hehe... ;-) I prefer Halogens... ;-) But the electric bill is lower with floros.... ;-) |
| [00:30:35] | mzb_d800: | I just use a desk-lamp behind the TV with a 40W incandescent |
| [00:30:45] | mzb_d800: | (25W are hard to find these days;) |
| [00:30:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: Why not? Are they flourescent? |
| [00:31:30] | mzb_d800: | you can't use a dimmer on up-facing incandescents .... if filament breaks off and shorts out the dimmer will blow off the wall (apparently) |
| [00:31:57] | ** J-e-f-f-A has never heard of that before.... ** | |
| [00:31:58] | mzb_d800: | landlord not happy with the idea of replacing 2x3 lights |
| [00:32:40] | wolfspirit: | anyone know what would be causing a chirping sound from digital tv? I'm assuming sound sampling? any suggestions to get rid of this sound? |
| [00:32:59] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: That sounds like an urban myth to me... |
| [00:33:04] | ** J-e-f-f-A googles anyways... ;-) ** | |
| [00:33:35] | mzb_d800: | apparently if you look at a dimmer packet, there's an up-facing light bulb with a cross on it ... and that's why it's there |
| [00:34:24] | mzb_d800: | (the landlord is an electrician, so I can't get that one past him) |
| [00:35:09] | ozymandias2: | taskset does not help |
| [00:35:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: Standard incadescent bulbs, right? Here in the US, GE (I think) makes an incadescent where the filament is up & down instead of left-right... |
| [00:35:51] | mzb_d800: | standard here is 240V bayonet-style |
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| [00:36:08] | mzb_d800: | but thanks for the suggestion ... I'll check it out |
| [00:36:27] | mzb_d800: | (I guess dimmable fluoro's are an option) |
| [00:37:17] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: The only problem with the one I bought is that it's noisy when dimming. Range is pretty decent though, from 100% down to about 20% or so before going off... Not as good as an incadescent though... |
| [00:38:00] | mzb_d800: | yeah ... and I've got issues with fluoro's ... so I can't say I'm keen on the idea |
| [00:38:17] | mzb_d800: | (flickering drives me insane/dizzy/etc) |
| [00:39:37] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: The newer ones have electronic ballasts that operate at much higher frequencies, so you don't get the 50 (or 60hz in the US) flicker... |
| [00:39:51] | mzb_d800: | hmm |
| [00:40:03] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: Actually, come to think of it, I did notice some flickering with the dimmable one, but not with the non-dimmable ones. |
| [00:40:24] | mzb_d800: | my problem would be that by the time it was installed, it would be too late to change |
| [00:40:40] | mzb_d800: | (and then I'd never go into that room unless the lights were OFF!) |
| [00:40:51] | mzb_d800: | mind you ... might save a bit of power ;) |
| [00:42:07] | ozymandias2: | ha |
| [00:42:31] | ozymandias2: | well, I am at a loss as to what is wrong |
| [00:44:32] | J-e-f-f-A: | ozymandias2: Sorry, thought you had a breakthrough when you typed "ha"... |
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| [00:46:14] | ozymandias2: | naw, laughing at the power saving comment |
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| [00:52:57] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: I don't think I believe that anyways, the lights here in the US have glass on the leads up to within 1/2" of the filament... I can't imagine it's much different other parts of the world, but perhaps 2x the voltage makes a difference... |
| [00:53:56] | ** J-e-f-f-A needs to run out to get some food... back in a bit... ;-) ** | |
| [00:54:33] | mzb_d800: | still haven't found proof ... but bottom line is if that symbol is on the packet, and the landlord believes it (myth or not) it's not going to happen :| |
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| [00:55:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | mzb_d800: I've never seen that symbol... maybe it is a non-US thing... do you have a pic to share? ;-) |
| [00:55:28] | ** J-e-f-f-A really leaves to get some food now... ;-) ** | |
| [00:55:28] | mzb_d800: | searching now |
| [00:55:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | back in a few. |
| [00:57:48] | dashcloud: | I'd like to get some feedback on my flash video encoding settings: -r 24 -f flv -ac 2 -ar 11025 -g 240 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -trellis 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv4+aiv |
| [00:58:18] | dashcloud: | they worked out well for when I had my laptop hooked to the SDTV |
| [00:58:40] | iamlindoro: | #ffmpeg would be a better place to ask |
| [01:02:05] | iamlindoro: | Debate time! |
| [01:02:56] | ozymandias2: | i think one of my capture cards is bad |
| [01:03:20] | ozymandias2: | every time I tried to touch the /dev/video* s the shell would lock as well |
| [01:03:34] | ozymandias2: | i removed the card, issues all went away |
| [01:11:50] | dashcloud: | I'm looking for a super-cheap frontend that's just going to be hooked to the TV, and play the flash videos from mythweb- any suggestions? |
| [01:13:03] | ozymandias2: | mediamvp |
| [01:16:50] | dashcloud: | thanks! |
| [01:16:59] | ozymandias2: | No Problem |
| [01:17:05] | ozymandias2: | i was going to buy one... |
| [01:17:17] | ozymandias2: | then the fiance asked me if i would mind buying a new tv |
| [01:19:28] | dashcloud: | I'd go with a 40'' dual-tuner DLP |
| [01:23:00] | ozymandias2: | i think I have a good one picked out |
| [01:23:34] | ozymandias2: | the point remains that i no longer need a front end — a PC will work now ;-) |
| [01:32:47] | justdave: | so I went to set up storage directories to get my stuff on the NFS where the slave backend could see it, and discovered that it was indeed actually set for there already, and that's where the files in question all were. |
| [01:33:03] | justdave: | after poking around some more, discovered that the slave had the nfs mounted read-only |
| [01:33:33] | justdave: | so apparently what it was really dying on was not being able to write the transcoded files |
| [01:33:45] | justdave: | remounted it read/write and the jobs started working |
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| [01:40:10] | HongKongFooey: | when the govt goes to hd tv can we still use our old tv cards? |
| [01:40:36] | ** J-e-f-f-A doesn't like DLP – he sees the rainbow effect really bad, even on "DDR" sets/projectors... ** | |
| [01:40:57] | ** J-e-f-f-A "mmm... Quiznos"... ;-) ** | |
| [01:42:20] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: If you're feeding it from a cable, sat box or a OTA converter box, yes. |
| [01:43:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: ^^ Cable box that is... Although many cable companies will probably still support analog for a year or two. |
| [01:44:32] | ** J-e-f-f-A just came to the realization that SD tv's will be called "Legacy" in the near future... ;-) ** | |
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| [01:46:10] | HongKongFooey: | well i got a dvr box from my cable company i want to replace with a computer dvr but now illneed another convertor too? |
| [01:47:53] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Yes, you'd need a non-DVR box, at least to get more than the channels that are available in analog, which is likely to only be 'basic' cable... |
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| [01:49:44] | HongKongFooey: | how does that work,the computer will only record whatever channel the box is on? |
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| [01:50:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Yes, but you change channels on the STB (Set-Top-Box) with an IR Blaster, or if your're lucky enough, the box has a serial port which you can change channels via... |
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| [01:51:17] | ozymandias2: | hmm |
| [01:51:29] | ozymandias2: | now my schedules direct will not load the lineups :-( |
| [01:51:53] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Or you could be really, really lucky, and find that your cable company is broadcasting digital channels non-encrypted... but I doubt that... ;-) |
| [01:54:47] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Head over to http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels and type in your zip code (if in the US) to see if you can get anything with a digital tuner... |
| [01:55:25] | ** J-e-f-f-A just realized it works for Canada too... ;-) ** | |
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| [01:58:49] | HongKongFooey: | what is that sitefor? |
| [01:59:01] | MythbuntuGuest79: | I've been searching all over but have not been able to find an answer. Does anyone know if the LinkSys DA2200 will work with Myth? |
| [01:59:20] | dashcloud: | it shows all the channels HDHomeRun users have found in a given zip code |
| [01:59:48] | justdave: | oooh, apparently my local cable apparently has a whole mess of unencrypted digital channels, according to that site. I suppose you still need a digital tuner. :) |
| [01:59:52] | HongKongFooey: | is that with an hd antenna? |
| [02:00:14] | justdave: | HongKongFooey: looks like both. my zip code is listing both over-the-air and cable stuff. |
| [02:00:21] | dashcloud: | yes, and it includes the unencrypted ClearQAM (cable) channels |
| [02:00:25] | justdave: | it says which is which at the top of each section |
| [02:01:16] | HongKongFooey: | http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineupui . . . stcode=06451 |
| [02:02:11] | justdave: | there's apparently 28 channels available OTA here. |
| [02:02:24] | justdave: | must need a rooftop antenna or something. can't pick up a darn thing on the TV :) |
| [02:03:06] | justdave: | this TV doesn't actually have an antenna of any kind (set top or otherwise) actually, so that's probably why. :) should see if I have some rabbit ears here somewhere |
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| [02:04:58] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Lots of locals OTA for you... only 7 'unknown' channels on your cable provider... |
| [02:05:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: That site is the manufacturer of the HDHomeRun tuner – an external network-attached HD tuner. |
| [02:06:31] | johnsu01: | so, my mythtv was working but ran out of disk space, had a crashed table, and now when I click watch TV nothing happens |
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| [02:06:43] | johnsu01: | I've repaired the tables and restarted the backend, the frontend, and mysql |
| [02:07:06] | johnsu01: | but it shows no upcoming recordings (which there should be many), and when I "watch tv" it goes black for one second and then back to the menu — no errors to the console |
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| [02:07:23] | johnsu01: | however I can watch previous recordings okay |
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| [02:08:17] | J-e-f-f-A: | johnsu01: Sounds like permissions on your tuner... Check the logs though... |
| [02:08:48] | johnsu01: | J-e-f-f-A: I mean, that's possible I guess, but this was working okay until the disk filled up, and the logs / console output don't show anything |
| [02:09:39] | J-e-f-f-A: | johnsu01: I'd stop both the frontend and backdend, then start them from shell windows, with "-v most", and see what the output tells you... |
| [02:10:24] | HongKongFooey: | so do you think its worth it to make a dvr using an old Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350 |
| [02:10:36] | johnsu01: | J-e-f-f-A: 2008-10–15 22:08:33.162 TV Error: Failed to get recording show list seems to be the culprit |
| [02:10:46] | HongKongFooey: | or will it just be a pain in the as with theset top box working with it |
| [02:11:19] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: I did... 3, 4 or 5 years ago... (can't remember when), ... went from a Dish Network DishPlayer7200 to Myth. ;-) Never looked back... SO MUCH MORE functionality... |
| [02:11:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | johnsu01: sounds like you might still have a damaged table... |
| [02:12:32] | HongKongFooey: | so did you just keep regular cable and hook it into the box |
| [02:12:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: It is a bit of work, but well worth it in my opinion. If you're technical, then you should do ok. |
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| [02:13:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: I have Dish Network — I kept the set-top-box, and now feed Hauppauge tuners (started with a PVR-350, added a 250, later moved to a 500)... and I also have two HD Over-the-air tuners... |
| [02:15:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: Try hooking an analog TV directly up to your cable feed and see what you get for analog channels... If you get what you want, contact your cable company and inquire as to how long they are going to support Analog TV sets... |
| [02:16:09] | HongKongFooey: | i have a Cox cable set-top box i like it because i can record while watching a different channel , i would need 2 cardsto do this with myth right? |
| [02:16:22] | J-e-f-f-A: | Yes. |
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| [02:22:55] | johnsu01: | J-e-f-f-A: yeah... but mysql isn't complaining about any crashed tables |
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| [02:30:47] | J-e-f-f-A: | johnsu01: I'm looking in the source code to see what will cause that message... ;-) |
| [02:30:50] | johnsu01: | J-e-f-f-A: Well, problem was dumb — another mythbackend running |
| [02:30:58] | J-e-f-f-A: | HA! |
| [02:31:06] | johnsu01: | J-e-f-f-A: that the debian init.d script wasn't killing |
| [02:31:44] | HongKongFooey: | which version of myth is the easiest to setup |
| [02:32:07] | HongKongFooey: | knoppmyth or like mythbuntu |
| [02:32:46] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: I haven't played with MythBuntu – KnoppMyth was pretty easy the last time I used it. MythDora is easy too... |
| [02:33:45] | HongKongFooey: | any of them more stable to use ,i can setup myhtasanaddonto anexistinglinuxinstall right? |
| [02:34:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: If you're already Linux-literate, compile it from source... I'd recommend version 0.21-fixes ... That's what I run. |
| [02:37:46] | Winkie: | can a single channel on multiple tuners be displayed as only one channel on the frontend / can two frontends watch the source from a single tuner? |
| [02:37:49] | J-e-f-f-A: | HongKongFooey: As far as the different 'ready-made mythtv-included' distributions – they all work well. I don't know that any one is any better than the other. |
| [02:37:54] | Winkie: | i have been unable to google the answers to either of these |
| [02:39:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: Two frontends can watch the same channel... Either by recording it, and both watching the recording, or by one watching "Live TV", and the other watching the "Live TV" recording. |
| [02:39:39] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: ah, so no automated support for it? |
| [02:39:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: But you can't just go to "Live TV" on both frontends and (currently?) tune the same channel on both with just one tuner... |
| [02:40:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | The 2nd frontend would get a message that all avalable tuners are already busy, and give you the option to go to the recordings menu IIRC... Which you could then change the filter to watch the live tv recording. |
| [02:40:44] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: that is a real shame, i would imagine the mpeg routing isn't that hard, I have already modified my source copy a little so I will have to read through |
| [02:40:47] | Winkie: | my C is weak :( |
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| [02:41:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: I'd imagine with a ilttle coding you could check if the tuner(s) were in use for Live TV, and add an option to watch the same Channel/show that was already being watched... |
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| [02:42:04] | jparishy: | Hey, is it possible to watch and record TV from a FiOS HD STB? |
| [02:42:09] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: I'd venture to say that Most of the people in here use myth to record shows to watch later, and don't typically watch live TV. |
| [02:42:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: Currently only with a HD-PVR... |
| [02:42:57] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: yeah that's understandable, do you know the answer to my other question? all of my tuners pick up BBC ONE for example, and i'd quite like to have only one channel instead of the 2 or 3 i have at the moment |
| [02:43:03] | ** J-e-f-f-A has FiOS too.. but for internet only currently... Still use Dish Network for TV. ** | |
| [02:43:49] | jparishy: | J-e-f-f-A, What do you mean? Like a separate device to do the recording, or something for my PC? I'm not too familiar with this stuff |
| [02:45:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: If you mean that "BBC ONE" is on 3 seperate channels, you can just hide two of them, like say "2" "26" and "24", you could just 'hide' two of the channels from Myth... |
| [02:45:48] | jparishy: | I'm not really sure how this works. I was just going to try and plugin a FireWire to USB or USB to USB and plug one in the STB and the other in my PC |
| [02:47:00] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: i'm confused by what you mean, for example if i hide two of the BBC ONEs, and then a frontend opens a session to the only BBC ONE in the list, can MythTV use the BBC ONE from another tuner card? |
| [02:47:30] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: There's only a few ways to get HD into MythTV – 1) via an over-the-air tuner, 2) Via a digital tuner from cable tv with non-encrypted channels, 3) via a cable box with non-encrypted firewire output, and 4) with a HD-PVR box – which is a Component HDTV to MPEG4 USB converter. |
| [02:48:12] | jparishy: | Ah, seems like a PITA :| |
| [02:49:05] | jparishy: | What do you mean by encrypted, by the way. Like a DRM of sorts to prevent copying? Or what? I can't watch/record any channel? |
| [02:49:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: #2 and #3 are not very common... #1 works perfect, but is only locals... and #4 is working quite well for many people (support continiues to improve), but requires a set-top-box and the HD-PVR, which will run you around $200 street price... |
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| [02:50:16] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: Not to mention that it outputs H.264, which currently requires a very powerful cpu to decode as there is currently no hardware decoding support in Linux... |
| [02:51:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkle: Yes. |
| [02:51:33] | jparishy: | I have a QuadCore AMD Phenom on this PC, but still ouch |
| [02:51:46] | Lynet: | Still no news on when we might see accel'd h264, I guess? |
| [02:51:48] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: Assuming they all have the same source... ;-) |
| [02:52:04] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: what do you mean by "the same source"? |
| [02:52:36] | jparishy: | How does Encryption on these channels work? A few words to help me google would be helpful :P |
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| [02:53:10] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: Yeah, and the linux decoder is currently single-threaded, but there has been some work on it to make it 'multi-slice' capable... still a bit off though I think. |
| [02:53:12] | Winkie: | jparishy: I imagine it's quite specific to the provider, i know that there are standards like DVB-C, but i think that's just fundementals like tuning frequencies etc |
| [02:53:26] | Winkie: | but the actual stream is basically just binary, so i'd guess it varies |
| [02:53:54] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: Every tuner within mythtv can have a different source. For example, I have 4 tuners – 2 are Dish Network, 2 are OTA HD. So I have two sources. |
| [02:54:20] | jparishy: | I'm still confused how it works, as if any TV can output it, what's stopping us? |
| [02:54:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: I could even have a 3rd source for analog cable, for instance... or a 4th with another lineup... etc... |
| [02:54:32] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: oh i see! |
| [02:55:07] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: i guess that this is the area i would have to modify to get dual frontends watching |
| [02:55:55] | Winkie: | jparishy: which are you confused about? |
| [02:56:15] | jparishy: | How the encryption works. |
| [02:56:33] | jparishy: | If the stream is encrypted, it has to be decrypted to get outputted to the TV, no? |
| [02:56:37] | Winkie: | yes |
| [02:56:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: The TV has a chip in it that does the decryption. It's not publically available... |
| [02:56:58] | Winkie: | oh i guess in the US you have DMCA protected stuff |
| [02:57:10] | Winkie: | you have broadcast flag and all that, i totally forgot |
| [02:57:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: I suppose if you're really techy, you might be able to tap into the signal somehow after it's decrypted... |
| [02:57:33] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: Nope, the broadcast flag got shot down. OTA broadcasts aren't encrypted. |
| [02:57:37] | jparishy: | Okay, so the TV does the decryption, not the STB |
| [02:57:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | Winkie: Just Cable TV and Satellite are encrypted... |
| [02:58:04] | solyton: | I have this idea, why not make open source cable TV and forget those channels alltogether? |
| [02:58:04] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: ah that's the same as the UK |
| [02:58:07] | RyeBrye: | SilverStone makes some nice HTPC cases... but things like this just really make me wonder: http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/TJ10-WNV.php |
| [02:58:14] | Winkie: | and no jparishy in the UK only the STB does the decryption |
| [02:58:19] | solyton: | they are a pain in the neck |
| [02:58:33] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: Well, I think in some cases, the stb decrypts, then encrypts on the way out (hdmi) to the TV... |
| [02:58:48] | Winkie: | yeah that's HDCP |
| [02:58:55] | solyton: | open nource news, open source shows, open source sports etc |
| [02:58:57] | jparishy: | Winkie, :| So if it's decrypted when it gets transfered to the TV/PC, what stops us from viewing certain channels |
| [02:59:10] | RyeBrye: | my wife? |
| [02:59:17] | Winkie: | jparishy: HD content may well require a "secure" connection, one encrypted with HDCP |
| [02:59:43] | jparishy: | Well, I'm not worried about HD, even normal channels |
| [02:59:46] | RyeBrye: | Yes.... or one that ends at a secure HDCP endpoint – like the HD Fury |
| [02:59:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: Well, the STB is only decrypting the channel you are viewing... |
| [03:00:13] | Winkie: | jparishy: if normal channels work without using DVI or HDMI, then they're not encrypted |
| [03:00:35] | solyton: | why no decrypt the signals in the first place? problem solved |
| [03:01:05] | Winkie: | solyton: if you can afford to fund open source news etc, then i'm sure people would be interested |
| [03:01:12] | jparishy: | Winkie, that's what's confusing me xD By the time they reach the TV or PC aren't even the encrypted channels decrypted for viewing? |
| [03:01:22] | Winkie: | and in what place? In the US it is illegal to even discuss some of this |
| [03:01:39] | Winkie: | jparishy: it varies, DVI and HDMI provide the facility to transfer encrypted data in a standards compliant manner |
| [03:01:40] | solyton: | in US is legal |
| [03:01:51] | Winkie: | modern HDCP supporting TVs can then decrypt this |
| [03:01:54] | solyton: | well... we are in the internet. lol |
| [03:02:01] | Winkie: | or as was pointed out, any "secure" HDCP endpoint |
| [03:02:05] | solyton: | internet is not a country |
| [03:02:20] | jparishy: | Winkie, Oh. |
| [03:02:22] | RyeBrye: | http://www.curtpalme.com/HDFury2.shtm |
| [03:02:24] | Winkie: | and solyton the DMCA or similar has been used to prevent people giving talks on weaknesses in encryption |
| [03:02:30] | jparishy: | That's ridiculous |
| [03:02:33] | jparishy: | Laws suck :| |
| [03:02:50] | Winkie: | you should be more aware and more vocal about it :) |
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| [03:03:12] | jparishy: | I can't even vote yet :/ |
| [03:03:14] | Winkie: | we're likely to see some of it in the UK unfortunately |
| [03:03:36] | Winkie: | you're never too young to talk about the things you want changed |
| [03:03:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | The reason anything is locked/encrypted/etc is to protect it from theft... You lock the doors on your house or car usually, right? |
| [03:03:54] | jparishy: | I don't understand why all of these connections are encrypted even after they reach the user, doesn't make sense to me |
| [03:03:56] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: that's not the problem, the problem is that they can prevent discussion of how these locks are broken |
| [03:04:24] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: imagine if a person were to give a talk on how he can break into your house with a bent nail, would you want the information available so the company is forced to fix it, or would you want them to hide it so only criminals would know this information |
| [03:05:03] | jparishy: | If I pay for HDTV from FiOS, I should be able to do what I want with it once it gets to me, anything inbetween is understandable to me though |
| [03:05:07] | Winkie: | in the US, it can be a criminal offence to talk about how certain types of locks are broken, as far as I understand it |
| [03:05:23] | Winkie: | jparishy: you don't own the IP, therefore you are essentially licensing it for private showing |
| [03:05:35] | jparishy: | Yeah, but IP laws suck too :| |
| [03:05:37] | Winkie: | you'll most likely find a lot of terms stating such in your contract |
| [03:05:45] | Winkie: | well you'll get no argument from me there |
| [03:06:01] | jparishy: | I think most US IP and Copyright laws suck |
| [03:06:15] | solyton: | then as I said, make an open source cable |
| [03:06:37] | jparishy: | Seriously, some of the crap that the MPAA and the RIAA spit out is pure BS |
| [03:06:56] | Winkie: | solyton: you can't afford to invest in the infrastructure, the programing investment etc |
| [03:07:03] | Winkie: | it would cost billions |
| [03:07:13] | solyton: | anyone can make a show. in fact some shows that has been cancelled were produced again because fans demanded it |
| [03:07:33] | Winkie: | you'll never convince enough people to pay more for a network which is not "up to standard" |
| [03:07:49] | solyton: | then make it standard |
| [03:08:07] | Winkie: | you can't, you can't afford things like music |
| [03:08:39] | Winkie: | for example, in the UK, the BBC gets a particular type of blanket license from the appropriate british company |
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| [03:08:56] | Winkie: | however, when they want to sell DVDs for example in America, they must pay extensive license fees to have this music included |
| [03:08:59] | solyton: | you know RIAA MPAA Att verizon are leechers and aren't contributing/inventing/giving back to society nothing |
| [03:09:19] | solyton: | those are OLD business models |
| [03:09:23] | Winkie: | solyton: they're large companies, they provide economic activity and hundreds of thousands of jobs |
| [03:09:38] | Winkie: | and while i appreciate your enthusiasm, you need to provide a solid plan of migration into what you consider the future |
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| [03:10:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | I'd just be happy to have a 'legal' cable-card tuner or internal sat tuner that could be licensed for legal reception... |
| [03:10:31] | Winkie: | back shortly |
| [03:10:40] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: wouldn't we all :( |
| [03:10:53] | solyton: | look, itunes, and all those online music stores didn't come from those companies |
| [03:11:11] | Winkie: | i don't have cable or satellite purely because of that, it's even illegal to do so if you have a subscription i believe |
| [03:11:19] | Winkie: | actually that would only be a civil offence, i don't think it can be criminal |
| [03:11:20] | solyton: | then' let's make that :) |
| [03:11:24] | jparishy: | Gah, I hate iTunes, my Brother bought so much music and I can't use any of it :( |
| [03:11:33] | Winkie: | solyton: itunes is DRM protected |
| [03:11:38] | Winkie: | it is also not open source |
| [03:11:44] | Winkie: | neither is the iphone or ipod |
| [03:11:52] | Winkie: | their popularity doesn't wane by much as a result |
| [03:11:55] | Winkie: | anyway really brb now :) |
| [03:12:05] | solyton: | I was referring how it is a new business model |
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| [03:12:59] | solyton: | when the MIAA bastards wanted to charge more than $0.99 per song Steve Jobs said "that being greedy" |
| [03:13:26] | solyton: | *being |
| [03:13:27] | jparishy: | The RIAA? |
| [03:13:34] | solyton: | yes |
| [03:13:37] | jparishy: | ok |
| [03:14:24] | solyton: | jparishy: do you have the hdfury2? looks cool but too expensive for being a simple converter |
| [03:14:34] | jparishy: | No, I don't have one |
| [03:16:01] | Winkie: | solyton: i'm not so sure that itunes even makes much money |
| [03:16:09] | Winkie: | solyton: i don't know the statistics on it though |
| [03:18:08] | Winkie: | by buying tracks from itunes which can only be decoded on one type of device, you're tying yourself to apple, and as such it may work as a loss-leader |
| [03:18:59] | solyton: | mm.. there are plenty of othre open source music sites that are alternative to iTunes |
| [03:19:41] | Winkie: | i'm sure that's true, but i'm just trying to point out that this "new" business model, is in fact very much the "old" business model, but on the internet |
| [03:20:40] | solyton: | mm... damn, well the current economic models will soon disappear |
| [03:21:00] | solyton: | so I guess it's alright to wait |
| [03:21:13] | Winkie: | well DRM certainly seems to be floundering, which is always a good thing |
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| [03:22:55] | jparishy: | iTunes the only one I know of with a huge variety of music |
| [03:23:53] | jparishy: | Though IIRC iTunes has some DRM-Free music |
| [03:24:21] | Winkie: | i like www.thesixtyone.com for new music |
| [03:24:49] | blc: | I just got a new laptop and would like to sync a few recordings to it periodically to watch on the train ride to work. Anyone had any luck with something like this? |
| [03:25:12] | ** J-e-f-f-A has bought like 2 tracks online from Napster... ** | |
| [03:25:37] | ** J-e-f-f-A everything else on my ipod is just ripped from my CDs.... ;-) ** | |
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| [03:26:08] | jparishy: | Napster is crazy. I tried it once, and I tried to play my music and it said "Sorry, you didn't plug in your device today, too bad" (give or a take a few words) |
| [03:26:26] | Winkie: | blc: i believe that recordings are just plain MPEG2 and can be transcoded to MPEG4/AVI so you would be fine just copying them off, i am no expert though |
| [03:26:31] | Winkie: | jparishy: that's why I try not to use them |
| [03:26:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | jparishy: I paid the $1 to be able to burn it to a CD, then sampled it back in as an mp3 to my ipod... ;-) |
| [03:27:06] | blc: | I thought of that, too, but I would prefer to have the metadata with them |
| [03:27:15] | jparishy: | J-e-f-f-A, Heh |
| [03:27:20] | Winkie: | metadata is easy to import using a program such as Picard |
| [03:27:31] | Winkie: | but it's a rather ridiculous process to have to go through |
| [03:27:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | ... and just as easy to just type in.... especially if it's just a song or two... |
| [03:27:48] | Winkie: | i believe DVD Jon made a stripper program, but that is also illegal to discuss in the US i believe |
| [03:27:56] | jparishy: | I usually use Amarok for music, and it imports all the data automatically |
| [03:28:04] | blc: | I thought of maybe running a backend on the laptop and doing a mysql sync, or something along those lines |
| [03:28:26] | blc: | seems like a lot of work though, which is why I wondered if anyone else had thought the process through already |
| [03:29:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | blc: I dunno... just copy the files to your laptop with mythweb over a network perhaps? They're just mpeg2 usually... |
| [03:29:24] | blc: | y |
| [03:29:30] | blc: | er... |
| [03:29:55] | blc: | I hadn't thought of mythweb, but that's not a bad idea |
| [03:30:29] | Winkie: | blc: what exactly are you trying to do? Isn't it trivial to just copy off the mpeg recordings? |
| [03:30:37] | blc: | whatever format they are, I use ubuntu on the laptop, so playing the file is not an issue |
| [03:31:21] | Winkie: | ah i see they're named interestingly, well writing a script to recover that should be pretty trivial |
| [03:31:27] | blc: | I guess what I was hoping for is to be able to run mythfrontend on the laptop, and while I'm connected to my network, be able to "select recording for offline playback" or something easy like that |
| [03:31:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | blc: The formas on your tuner(s) and what format you record in... with Hauppauge PVR cards, it's MPEG2... with software encoding, it could be anything... then there's the digital tuners... ;-) |
| [03:32:04] | blc: | but I'll probably just go with the mythweb solution for now, though |
| [03:32:17] | J-e-f-f-A: | blc: That's not available currently, but sounds like a neat enhancement. How are you coding skills? ;-) |
| [03:32:44] | blc: | a bit rusty, unfortunately :) |
| [03:33:05] | Winkie: | i suspect the frontend relies on the backend for almost everything, so you would probably have to run a backend on the laptop and integrate some ability to move files between them |
| [03:33:22] | RyeBrye: | yeah, if the frontend cant get to the backend, it no worky |
| [03:34:14] | Winkie: | still, blc you can write a script in seconds to extract the right file |
| [03:34:22] | Winkie: | Ray Mears' Bushcraft | 1156_20081015161253.mpg |
| [03:34:34] | Winkie: | that's basically all you need, maybe the date too but that's in the filename |
| [03:35:52] | J-e-f-f-A: | ^^ Yeah, and it'd definitely be faster than an HTTP download.... ;-) |
| [03:36:10] | blc: | eh, http over local net isn't so bad |
| [03:36:47] | blc: | well, I think I have enough to run with, thanks for the quick brainstorm |
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| [03:38:56] | J-e-f-f-A: | There's lots of neat things I'd like to see in Myth, and want to contribute. The problem is I don't have as much time as I used to... ;-) I could probably work out an updated version of the old un-official 'MythStreamTV' addon, I actually liked that... |
| [03:39:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | ... Especially since the Flash encoding hasn't been working in a while on my 0.21-fixes box... :-( |
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| [03:40:55] | J-e-f-f-A: | ... and maybe even work with Xris to get it to be an officical mythweb plugin... I dunno... |
| [03:43:26] | J-e-f-f-A: | It'd be neat to setup automatic transcoding to iPod Video format, and be able to plug in my iPod every night, and have a script automatically transcode what I've selected and transfer it to the iPod automagically through the night... ;-) (There's probably already people doing this... ;-) ) |
| [03:44:37] | RyeBrye: | I was just going over to Schedules Direct to report a lineup issue... and reading over the FAQ reminded me of the absolute shit storm that was brewing last year around this time |
| [03:44:40] | RyeBrye: | remember that? |
| [03:44:41] | iamlindoro: | J-e-f-f-A, indeed. I used to have all my recordings transcoded to ipod format and an auto-generated podcast subscribed in iTunes... so long as I always docked the iPod I always had the previous day's recordings in it come morning |
| [03:45:10] | Dagmar: | OMG PIRATE! |
| [03:45:28] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: That's right... we talked about that some time ago... ;-) |
| [03:45:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | Dagmar: He didn't say he was publishing that podcast... ;-) |
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| [03:45:51] | iamlindoro: | J-e-f-f-A, mythweb + an SSH tunnel has rendered it sort of moot, though, as I shouldn't watch while driving and would rather just pull up a web browser at work |
| [03:45:53] | Dagmar: | J-e-f-f-A: Doesn't matter. |
| [03:46:08] | Dagmar: | Lawyers take a dim view of everything that let's them accumulate billable hours. |
| [03:46:15] | Steven_M: | hi all |
| [03:46:35] | Dagmar: | iamlindoro made a copy of something, so lawyers will want to bend him over and take his *ahem* wallet |
| [03:46:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: Yeah, but the flash player hasn't worked for me for a long while now, and I haven't had time to troubleshoot it... |
| [03:47:04] | Dagmar: | ...although frankly I'm finding http://www.xkcd.org/488/ harder and harder to argue with |
| [03:47:34] | Dagmar: | Thank god no one can add asinine copy protection to 12" vinyls |
| [03:47:42] | Steven_M: | what's the best file system to use on mythtv-frontend/bankend combo? |
| [03:47:52] | Dagmar: | Steven_M: The ones documented on the webstie |
| [03:48:28] | Steven_M: | Dagmar: the wiki? |
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| [03:48:33] | Dagmar: | Yes. |
| [03:48:33] | Winkie: | J-e-f-f-A: haha, it would be faster than finding each episode, but fair point :) |
| [03:48:39] | Dagmar: | Your options are XFS and JFS. |
| [03:48:52] | Dagmar: | That's as much of a hint as I'm going to give anyone. |
| [03:48:52] | Winkie: | what's wrong with ext3? :( |
| [03:48:59] | Dagmar: | Winkie: Read up about it and find out |
| [03:49:34] | Winkie: | Dagmar: I know a reasonable amount about ext3, and I fail to see your point |
| [03:49:42] | iamlindoro: | Then you don't know enough |
| [03:49:58] | Winkie: | perhaps you could enlighten me |
| [03:49:58] | Dagmar: | Winkie: You don't know enough then. |
| [03:50:00] | Dagmar: | No. |
| [03:50:03] | Dagmar: | Do your own research. |
| [03:50:09] | iamlindoro: | Well covered in the wiki |
| [03:50:12] | iamlindoro: | and manual |
| [03:50:22] | Dagmar: | Asking Google "best filesystem for MythTV" is trivial to do, and turns up piles of detail |
| [03:50:34] | ** J-e-f-f-A casts a vote for XFS, and has previously run JFS too. ;-) ** | |
| [03:51:00] | Dagmar: | About the only thing further I'll say is that I dare you to delete a 6Gb file from ext3 and do something else with the machine within the next two seconds. |
| [03:52:32] | Dagmar: | Gods forbid someone try using ext3 with an HD-PVR. |
| [03:53:15] | Winkie: | Dagmar: oh i see, well i must say that's a rather esoteric problem |
| [03:53:54] | Dagmar: | Esoteric, yes. Undocumented, no. |
| [03:54:01] | iamlindoro: | If "failed/corrupt recordings because you decided to delete a large file while it was busy" is esotheric to you, sure |
| [03:54:06] | Dagmar: | It's cited in at least two places in the documentationa |
| [03:55:02] | ** J-e-f-f-A heads off to bed... :-) ZZZzzzz.... ** | |
| [03:55:04] | Winkie: | well you could have easily said that, rather than jumping down my throat :) |
| [03:55:19] | Dagmar: | Just so we're clear, iamlindoro and I aren't naturally mean people (okay, so maybe a little) but there's a lot of stuff we'll just refuse to explain because it leads to laziness and people not doing their own research at all and us getting burnt out on dealing with any of it |
| [03:55:35] | ** iamlindoro is naturally mean ** | |
| [03:55:43] | Dagmar: | By the same token, you could have read all the documentation |
| [03:56:00] | Winkie: | Dagmar: well from all i can see it doesn't seem to be that serious a problem, but i didn't read anything about corruption, just journal failures if you shutdown while it's deleting |
| [03:56:12] | Dagmar: | ...and I don't mean the entire wiki. It's in the basic installation docs. |
| [03:56:15] | Winkie: | i would imagine you could change a journal option for that, but i am no mythtv expert |
| [03:56:33] | Winkie: | i was asking from the perspective of a sysadmin, i only started using mythtv a few days ago |
| [03:56:34] | Dagmar: | Winkie: I don't know where you read that bit of nonsense |
| [03:56:39] | Dagmar: | Some Ubuntu site? |
| [03:56:57] | Winkie: | Dagmar: i googled 'mythtv ext3' :) |
| [03:57:26] | Dagmar: | I'll bet you hit something written by some lunatic |
| [03:57:37] | Dagmar: | What you just described basically isn't possible |
| [03:58:00] | Winkie: | Dagmar: journal failures meaning a replay is required on reboot |
| [03:58:05] | Dagmar: | Lemme suggest that in the future when you "ask" Google something you actually use a question. |
| [03:58:08] | Winkie: | if you thought i meant something else |
| [03:58:14] | Dagmar: | Two keywords won't often tell you much useful |
| [03:58:55] | Winkie: | well no offence but there's not much to go on when you say "research more" |
| [03:59:37] | Dagmar: | Ahem. |
| [03:59:42] | Dagmar: | How about "best filesystem for MythTV". |
| [04:00:13] | ** iamlindoro makes a note to complain about the frame-level-multithreading guy more often ** | |
| [04:00:26] | iamlindoro: | day after I complain he's disappeared he commits a buttload of stuff to ffmpeg |
| [04:00:30] | Dagmar: | I think you completely misread whatever the hell it was you were looking at. |
| [04:01:03] | Dagmar: | I can't find whatever loon was making claims that a shutdown could result in a broken journal. |
| [04:01:09] | Winkie: | The problem is, when Myth is configured to shut-down between uses (with an alarm set to auto-wakeup for the next recording session), it may try to shut down while a large file is being deleted. |
| [04:01:10] | Winkie: | When this happens, the filesystem cannot be unmounted before the actual power off, so the system ends up with an unclean filesystem as a result. *Usually* ext3 will recover from this on the next reboot, when it replays the journal file. But that's a rather risky way to manage the system — equivalent to just hitting the power button instead of doing a proper shutdown. |
| [04:01:13] | Winkie: | judge for yourself :) |
| [04:01:24] | Dagmar: | Winkie: That person was high. |
| [04:01:45] | Winkie: | Dagmar: well with the amount of information i had to hand, it was hard to judge |
| [04:01:46] | Dagmar: | ...and saying they were high when they wrote that is the polite thing to say. |
| [04:02:03] | Dagmar: | The unmount call that happens during shutdown *can't* be interrupted. |
| [04:02:22] | Dagmar: | THe kernel won't let you do that. |
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| [04:02:24] | dustybin: | wireless on DMZ + openVPN = _secure_ wireless :) |
| [04:02:32] | Dagmar: | dustybin: heheh |
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| [04:02:57] | iamlindoro: | no such thing |
| [04:02:58] | dustybin: | Dagmar: i didnt realise how many certs you need to get openVPN running, frickin heck |
| [04:03:20] | Winkie: | Dagmar: well this person seems to have had the problem so you should argue with him not me :) |
| [04:03:34] | Winkie: | and dustybin you can set up openvpn with a static key, but it's not the "best" way |
| [04:03:48] | Dagmar: | Winkie: Okay, I see the thing you were reading |
| [04:04:11] | Dagmar: | First off, anything you see written on a *web forum* you should automatically consider to be of rather low reliability. |
| [04:04:37] | Winkie: | Dagmar: i don't need a tutorial on reading things on the internet thanks |
| [04:04:42] | Dagmar: | The guy was also off his rocker about "On my rather fast SATA/RAID0 system here, deleting a 3-hour 1080i recording typically takes 1–3 minutes of elapsed time, and that's without enabling "delete files slowly" in Myth. " |
| [04:05:01] | iamlindoro: | http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-so . . . /005960.html |
| [04:05:02] | Winkie: | and it's fine, i have no huge attachment to ext3 |
| [04:05:07] | Dagmar: | Winkie: Really? Then why did you believe the madness that he wrote? |
| [04:05:10] | iamlindoro: | ^^^^ VERY GOOD THING (if he ever gets it merged) |
| [04:06:01] | Winkie: | Dagmar: because it seemed perfectly plausible and you had informed me there was a problem with ext3 and mythtv? |
| [04:06:14] | Winkie: | this post illustrated a problem with ext3, which in fact is at least somewhat correct |
| [04:06:14] | Dagmar: | Enabling slow file deletion in MythTV will have no effect on how long it takes ext3 to journal every bit of a massive file deletion. |
| [04:06:33] | Dagmar: | It simply makes Myth not try to delete multiple files at once. |
| [04:06:58] | Winkie: | well I have no mythtv experience, and was simply asking a question, don't shout at me for googling when all i had to go on was there was some problem with ext3 and mythtv |
| [04:07:17] | Dagmar: | ...and since you need to learn that you DO need to read more than just one thing, assume it's true, and stop, I'll explain exactly what the deal with ext3 is. |
| [04:07:23] | Dagmar: | It journals the ENTIRE file deletion. |
| [04:07:39] | Winkie: | yes I realise that now, i read the mythtv docs |
| [04:07:52] | Dagmar: | XFS/JFS simply delete the inode and free up the space and otherwise don't get excited about deleting files. |
| [04:08:06] | Dagmar: | Ext3 journals each little bit it deallocates. |
| [04:08:37] | Dagmar: | ...and since this is at the fs level, there's next to nothing you can do to the disk from userspace while the fs driver is doing all that journaling. |
| [04:08:49] | Dagmar: | It basically brings disk throughput to a full stop for awhile. |
| [04:09:10] | Winkie: | yeah i can also appreciate it is a problem |
| [04:09:23] | Dagmar: | ...meaning if Myth was trying to record and/or write to that filesystem, you have a *very* narrow window of time before disaster happens. |
| [04:09:44] | Dagmar: | By the same token, what the guy said about a journal write being interrupted by a shutdown is also mad. |
| [04:10:13] | Dagmar: | When you unmount a filesystem, one of the first things the kernel does is to flush the buffers for that filesystem to complete all writes that were cached. |
| [04:10:26] | Winkie: | but like i say, I didn't know what the problem was at all, in any way. It seemed plausible (and he must have had some bizarre issue, halt -nf would probably break it) and no offence, but I am hardly likely to research heavily when you were quite terse |
| [04:10:27] | Dagmar: | The unmount call can't complete until that's done and the disk is sync'd. |
| [04:10:44] | Dagmar: | Until that unmount completes, the system won't be completing it's shutdown sequence. |
| [04:10:58] | Dagmar: | Now, imagine that you had to explain this to someone four days out of every seven. |
| [04:11:10] | Winkie: | Dagmar: "slow file deletions" would have done it :) |
| [04:12:00] | Dagmar: | Slow file deletions is a crude workaround for people who feel like they're committed |
| [04:12:42] | Winkie: | I'm not even sure I understand what that means, but any information would have been good |
| [04:12:44] | Dagmar: | ...usually because they're too much of a packrat to just toss the recordings, and too lazy to back them up. |
| [04:13:02] | Winkie: | oh right i see, i wasn't referring to the option |
| [04:13:12] | Dagmar: | Ah okay |
| [04:13:15] | Winkie: | more you could have said "slow file deletions" and that would have shut me up and given me plenty of information to research |
| [04:13:27] | Dagmar: | Yeah, but "slow" isn't very specific. |
| [04:13:32] | Winkie: | it's good enough |
| [04:13:53] | Dagmar: | \If I said that to a hardcore ubuntu user, six months down the road they might "remember" me telling them "ext3 is 39% slower at file deletion than XFS". |
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| [04:14:38] | Winkie: | haha I am actually using ubuntu right now, but yes i appreciate you don't know me, but the terse reply certainly didn't help :) |
| [04:14:48] | Winkie: | and googling mythtv slow file deletion does return only relevant results |
| [04:15:07] | Dagmar: | Yeah, but I have my doubts about your bogon filter. |
| [04:15:30] | Winkie: | I think you expect way more research out of me than is likely for a trivial issue :) |
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| [04:15:42] | RyeBrye: | I thought XFS was like – super super fast to delete... and ext3 was crazy ass slow – way more than a 39% difference on gigabyte+ file sizes |
| [04:15:51] | Dagmar: | Someone should have jpointed out to this kid at mythtvtalk that his little bit of shell script is nuts |
| [04:15:55] | RyeBrye: | more like 1000% or osmething |
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| [04:16:04] | Dagmar: | RyeBrye: Depends on how big the file is |
| [04:16:17] | RyeBrye: | Well... for a 4 hour long 13.5 Megabit recording, lets say |
| [04:16:24] | Dagmar: | It's not that it's "slow". It's that it stores things differently so that it takes a long fucking time to delete really large files. |
| [04:16:28] | Winkie: | Dagmar: i suspect some crazy distribution uses some horrible call like 'halt -nf', which i'm sure would break it |
| [04:16:51] | Dagmar: | Winkie: Nah, I think there's a lot of admin types who'd go hop in the car and kill people for that. |
| [04:17:10] | ** RyeBrye would kill for sport ** | |
| [04:17:49] | Winkie: | Dagmar: well yes, speaking as an admin type i would be happy to shoot a lot of distribution developers |
| [04:18:16] | Dagmar: | Winkie: The *second* paragraph of the man page for umount says "Note that a file system cannot be unmounted when it is `busy'" |
| [04:19:02] | Winkie: | Dagmar: i don't know how much it locks up the kernel, i'm not about to test half -nfing my machine :) |
| [04:19:14] | Winkie: | it was certainly plausible to me anyway |
| [04:19:28] | Dagmar: | ...which isn't quite what we're looking for in the case of journaling deletes, but that guy's shell script that does umount /var/lib/mythtv && break is nuts for reasons very close to that |
| [04:20:11] | Winkie: | my recording partition is ext3, but that's only because it's on / for now :( |
| [04:20:12] | Dagmar: | Umount just won't complete while there's still buffers to be flushed, which is a far different thing than a filesystem that can't be unmounted *at all* because files on it are being used at the moment. |
| [04:20:24] | Dagmar: | Winkie: It's only a matter of time before that blows up |
| [04:20:52] | Winkie: | Dagmar: i'm aware, it's a very temporary machine which panics daily (probably thanks to about 5 different v4l devices being used) |
| [04:21:06] | Winkie: | we're waiting on some deliveries and moving a bunch of ethernet around |
| [04:21:29] | RyeBrye: | AHHHH – Recording to ext3..... AHHHHH |
| [04:21:39] | RyeBrye: | ;) |
| [04:21:43] | Winkie: | haha, it's not an actual used system, just a proof of concept |
| [04:22:01] | Winkie: | hence some of my questions earlier :) |
| [04:22:33] | Dagmar: | Well, we're big fans of questions with "yes or no" answers. |
| [04:22:55] | Dagmar: | The more someone's question shows that they've been doing their research, the higher the chance that someone who knows a LOT will pipe up with a detailed answer. |
| [04:23:12] | Winkie: | yeah that's a fair point, i appreciate my question was short :) |
| [04:23:28] | RyeBrye: | Dagmar – do you recommend setting the alloc size to an xfs partition to 512m like the wiki suggests? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Performance#XFS |
| [04:23:47] | RyeBrye: | (for a drive primarily being used for multi-GB HD recordings) |
| [04:23:59] | RyeBrye: | (obviosuly not for a drive storing shitloads of small files) |
| [04:24:02] | Dagmar: | RyeBrye: I'm too lazy to bother with it since I use JFS but... |
| [04:24:05] | Dagmar: | It's not that bad of an idea. |
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| [04:24:48] | Dagmar: | Basically, since the filesystem your recordings are on are *definitely* going to consist of a bunch of HUGE files, there's no reason to use a 64m lump size |
| [04:25:23] | Winkie: | Dagmar: one of the questions I asked before that you may be able to shed more light on is this: I would like for multiple frontends to be able to watch the same channel from the same card both by going to livetv and selecting it, has this been discussed at any point? (I gather it's not currently possible) |
| [04:25:45] | RyeBrye: | It's possible |
| [04:25:49] | Dagmar: | Like, if your filesystem used clump (yes I'm slanging it) sizes of say, 64Mb, and 80% of the files on there were only 30Mb in size, each of those files would take up twice as much space as it needed to. |
| [04:26:04] | Dagmar: | ...because that's basically the minimum amount of size the filesystem deals in. |
| [04:26:20] | Winkie: | RyeBrye: oh? I have done some searching etc and found very few details |
| [04:26:25] | Dagmar: | So, if you had a crapton of files that were 30Mb, you'd probably want 32Mb size |
| [04:26:37] | RyeBrye: | It's in 0.21 iirc – if all the tuners are busy it will jsut say "pick one being used" or something |
| [04:26:45] | Dagmar: | If you have craptons of 1Gb-sized files, you might as well tell it to allocate the biggest chunks it can |
| [04:27:06] | Winkie: | RyeBrye: oh, we're using 0.21 and the channel was greyed out in the EPG, I will check into it more then if you think it's in there |
| [04:27:11] | GreyFoxx: | Winki: Both cannot watch "LiveTV" from the same same card, BUT since all LIVETV are recordings the second machine could pick it from Watch Recordings |
| [04:27:23] | GreyFoxx: | And watch it while it's being recorded |
| [04:27:33] | Winkie: | GreyFoxx: yeah that's the answer I had before, and unfortunately is not appropriate |
| [04:27:47] | Dagmar: | Winkie: At some point someone'll have to get aorund to banging on that code a bit |
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| [04:28:10] | Dagmar: | ...something to make it a little more rigid about what you're allowed to do when multiple frontends try to do LiveTV at once and there's a tuner shortage |
| [04:28:29] | Winkie: | Dagmar: well that's what I was planning, I also need identical channels across cards to be one channel in the frontend |
| [04:28:33] | Dagmar: | Right now you're more or less expected to know to not kick the other person off the tuner. ;) |
| [04:28:39] | Winkie: | oh and also a way to mark a tuner as in use by an external process etc :) |
| [04:29:00] | Dagmar: | That last one I think you're screwed on |
| [04:29:06] | wagnerrp: | of course when you consider that mythtv will store a ~15kb thumbnail file along side each 2–15GB recording, using a massive block size may not really be ideal |
| [04:29:15] | Dagmar: | wagnerrp: You have a good point there. |
| [04:29:33] | Winkie: | Dagmar: in what way? the architecture would not allow it or there is no feature for it? |
| [04:29:39] | Dagmar: | I ain't running out of extents or inodes or any of that so I'm not mucking about with the similar settings for JFS |
| [04:29:40] | Winkie: | because the latter is fine |
| [04:30:00] | Dagmar: | Winkie: Myth expects exclusive access to the tuners. |
| [04:30:07] | GreyFoxx: | ACtually that depends |
| [04:30:13] | Dagmar: | This is one of the things in the way of making FM radio support a safe thing to use |
| [04:30:22] | RyeBrye: | wagnerrp – hmm... good point |
| [04:30:24] | Winkie: | Dagmar: oh? there was an option for accessing cards on demand |
| [04:30:33] | GreyFoxx: | If you are launching another app from within Myth to use a tuner you can tell myth to tie up a tuner for it so it wont be used for recordings |
| [04:30:50] | Dagmar: | I got the feeling he was talking about something entirely external to Myth |
| [04:31:01] | Winkie: | my only requirement is an external process |
| [04:31:15] | Winkie: | launched from within mythtv would work for me, i don't really mind how it's done |
| [04:31:27] | Dagmar: | Basically the backend has to be informed |
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| [04:31:32] | Winkie: | essentially it's just a few custom programs / vlc to stream some video over HTTP |
| [04:31:45] | GreyFoxx: | If you are launching an external app from myths menus you would need to edit the theme xml anyway and you can flag it as using a tuner |
| [04:32:09] | Winkie: | composites (multiplexes) zoneminder and a composite input with DVB TV |
| [04:32:30] | Winkie: | we have only 6 DVB multiplexes in the UK, so it can show 3 channels from one multiplex, and 3 cams |
| [04:32:36] | Winkie: | which is perfect |
| [04:32:49] | Winkie: | also GreyFoxx that sounds perfectly fine, can that be done through the plugin architecture? |
| [04:32:56] | GreyFoxx: | No |
| [04:33:00] | Winkie: | bugger |
| [04:33:14] | GreyFoxx: | It's a editable field in the theme when you define an external app to be launched |
| [04:33:22] | GreyFoxx: | <EXECTV> or some such |
| [04:33:31] | Winkie: | oh right I see, I didn't realise there was inbuilt external app stuff |
| [04:33:33] | Dagmar: | You don't *need* to go to the trouble of putting that bit in a plugin is what GreyFoxx means |
| [04:33:39] | Winkie: | yeah i see now |
| [04:33:48] | Winkie: | that should be very trivial then |
| [04:34:01] | GreyFoxx: | I have no idea how much control it gives you though |
| [04:34:11] | Winkie: | i really don't need much |
| [04:34:16] | GreyFoxx: | like if you have multiple tuners can you specific the specific one, or whatever |
| [04:34:25] | GreyFoxx: | I've never had occassion to use it |
| [04:34:30] | Winkie: | well i should be able to add it in if needed |
| [04:34:54] | Dagmar: | wagnerrp: One more use of a unified storage database |
| [04:34:56] | Winkie: | in fact i found a mailing list post about that exact thing |
| [04:35:27] | Dagmar: | wagnerrp: Then you could just stuff the images into "the store" and it could do something intelligent with them, like stick 'em on a filesystem with smaller clump sizes |
| [04:35:54] | wagnerrp: | or just have a separate file path for images, like mythvideo has |
| [04:35:58] | Dagmar: | Yep |
| [04:37:19] | wagnerrp: | how are symlinks stored? |
| [04:37:27] | Dagmar: | Very unexcitingly. |
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| [04:37:37] | Dagmar: | They're basically an inode containing the *path* to the real file. |
| [04:37:58] | wagnerrp: | so its still going to take a full block |
| [04:38:32] | fryfrog: | ahha |
| [04:38:33] | Dagmar: | -rw-r--r-- 1 dagmar users 0 2008-10–15 23:38 destination |
| [04:38:34] | Dagmar: | lrwxrwxrwx 1 dagmar users 11 2008-10–15 23:38 source -> destination |
| [04:38:35] | wagnerrp: | not something you could set up a user job to move the thumbnail elsewhere, and symlink it in |
| [04:38:42] | fryfrog: | very unexcitingly :) |
| [04:38:42] | Dagmar: | Guess why it's 11 bytes long. |
| [04:38:43] | Dagmar: | :) |
| [04:38:45] | Dagmar: | Hehe |
| [04:39:01] | Dagmar: | Yeah when I first found out I was a bit let down. |
| [04:39:07] | Dagmar: | I expected something much more fancy. |
| [04:39:20] | fryfrog: | a hardlink is maybe a little more exciting |
| [04:39:23] | Dagmar: | ...and now I'm thinking "WHY THE FUCK CAN'T MICROSOFT DO IT RIGHT YET?" |
| [04:39:34] | Dagmar: | a hardlink is no different from any other file. |
| [04:39:44] | Dagmar: | Normal files are in fact hardlinks. |
| [04:39:54] | fryfrog: | thats not quite true |
| [04:39:58] | Dagmar: | They just have *one* name pointing at them. |
| [04:40:00] | wagnerrp: | its absolutely true |
| [04:40:01] | fryfrog: | a hardlink doesn't take up the space a normal file does |
| [04:40:05] | Dagmar: | Yes it does. |
| [04:40:11] | fryfrog: | no wai |
| [04:40:14] | Dagmar: | Yes. |
| [04:40:17] | fryfrog: | no |
| [04:40:19] | wagnerrp: | all files need at least one hardlink |
| [04:40:23] | Dagmar: | Yeees. I'm serious. |
| [04:40:28] | fryfrog: | a hardlink points to the inode |
| [04:40:31] | wagnerrp: | once the last hardlink is dropped, the filesystem reallocates the blocks |
| [04:40:41] | fryfrog: | a 10mb file takes up 10mb, the hardlink to it does not *also* take up 10mb |
| [04:40:46] | Dagmar: | You store a file on the disk and you give it a name, and the name goes into the place in the directory tree with a pointer that points at the inode where the file starts. |
| [04:41:01] | wagnerrp: | a second hardlink is just a second link to the same file |
| [04:41:09] | Dagmar: | When you make a hardlink, it just puts the new name into the directory tree and sets the pointer to the *same inode the original file pointed at* |
| [04:41:15] | wagnerrp: | if you make a second hardlink, you can remote the first hardlink |
| [04:41:37] | fryfrog: | so hang on, it is exactly like i say. a hardlink doesn't take up more space (okay, a *trivial* tiny amount) |
| [04:41:56] | wagnerrp: | a hardlink just takes up another line in the file table |
| [04:41:58] | Dagmar: | You're still confused. |
| [04:42:12] | Dagmar: | There's no difference between a hardlink you make with ln and a "normal" file. |
| [04:42:15] | wagnerrp: | but any file is merely a hardlink pointing at some list of blocks on the disk |
| [04:42:22] | fryfrog: | Dagmar: okay, so... |
| [04:42:27] | fryfrog: | file1 is 10mb |
| [04:42:33] | fryfrog: | you make a hardlink to file1 named file2 |
| [04:42:44] | fryfrog: | you are using 10mb of space or 20mb of space? |
| [04:42:48] | Dagmar: | file2 takes up the one inode and that's it. |
| [04:42:50] | wagnerrp: | file1 and file2 are two entries in the file table, pointing to the same location on disk |
| [04:42:51] | fryfrog: | (which do *you* believe is true) |
| [04:42:57] | Dagmar: | fryfrgo: You know what pointers are in C, right? |
| [04:43:07] | fryfrog: | okay, so that is exactly what i'm saying |
| [04:43:16] | fryfrog: | yes, but i'm not a C programmer either |
| [04:43:23] | Dagmar: | Lemme put this another way |
| [04:43:42] | fryfrog: | a hardlink points to the same inodes, which means two "entries" but only one file. |
| [04:43:47] | Dagmar: | Yes. |
| [04:43:49] | wagnerrp: | correct |
| [04:44:13] | fryfrog: | how is that not what i said above (except i left out the actual underlying mechanics)? |
| [04:44:25] | Dagmar: | I can't remember for certain at the moment, but I think the refcount stays with the file and not the filename entry in the directory tree |
| [04:44:35] | wagnerrp: | but they are both normal files, the second link is not any more special than the original file |
| [04:44:54] | Dagmar: | fryfrog: What's different is that you think a hardlink is any different from a normal file. |
| [04:45:20] | Dagmar: | In fact, you can't tell which one is the original and which one is the "hardlink" after the fact. |
| [04:45:41] | Dagmar: | This is one of the reasons you see recursive tools warning people "FOR GODS SAKE DOnT USE THIS AGAINST HARDLINKS" |
| [04:45:55] | Dagmar: | You can completely f**k updatedb |
| [04:46:39] | Dagmar: | I'll put this yet another way... |
| [04:47:17] | Dagmar: | In the directory structure, I have file "foo" which points at inode 1234. I also have file "bar" which points at 1234. |
| [04:47:28] | Dagmar: | Which one is the "hardlink"? |
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| [04:48:37] | Dagmar: | Or... |
| [04:48:37] | Dagmar: | -rw-r--r-- 2 dagmar users 0 2008-10–15 23:38 destination |
| [04:48:38] | Dagmar: | -rw-r--r-- 2 dagmar users 0 2008-10–15 23:38 source |
| [04:48:46] | Dagmar: | Damn now I have to read the manpage for ls |
| [04:48:46] | hachi: | for the -O option to mythtv applications |
| [04:49:03] | hachi: | where's the list of options I can pass to this? |
| [04:49:29] | GreyFoxx: | hachi: There is no list |
| [04:49:34] | wagnerrp: | -O option? |
| [04:49:40] | GreyFoxx: | Settings Override |
| [04:49:42] | hachi: | -O or --override-setting KEY=VALUE Force the setting named 'KEY' to value 'VALUE' |
| [04:49:43] | Dagmar: | fryfrog: Okay, so doing an ls -ali shows the number 106704 in front of both lines |
| [04:50:01] | wagnerrp: | ah, didnt know it existed |
| [04:50:02] | Dagmar: | The -i makes it show what inode number that file points at |
| [04:50:12] | GreyFoxx: | hachi: There is no "list". It just override any value in the Settings table |
| [04:50:19] | hachi: | okay |
| [04:50:22] | GreyFoxx: | so you can find the key in there |
| [04:50:30] | hachi: | is there a setting for turning on window borders? |
| [04:50:31] | GreyFoxx: | and use -O to override whatever the DB says |
| [04:50:43] | Dagmar: | wagnerrp: You dont' remember anyone every doing -O painter=Qt to get Myth to not croak on bad GL before they can change the setting? |
| [04:50:46] | GreyFoxx: | hachi: There is , AND I think there is a -w for that |
| [04:50:56] | GreyFoxx: | so no need for -O |
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| [04:51:04] | hachi: | mythtv-setup --help doesn't say anything about a -w |
| [04:51:09] | hachi: | where's the documentation on that? |
| [04:51:22] | hachi: | no manpage either |
| [04:51:25] | wagnerrp: | i remember mention of an override for that purpose, dont remember the '-O' |
| [04:51:40] | GreyFoxx: | It's a mythfrontend option, I don't think -w works for mythtv-setup |
| [04:51:55] | GreyFoxx: | You would have to find out the Settings name for it and use -O if you want to apply it to mythtv-setup |
| [04:52:12] | wagnerrp: | ah, its listed for mythfrontend, but not mythbackend |
| [04:52:16] | Dagmar: | documentation? |
| [04:52:17] | Dagmar: | lol |
| [04:52:54] | Dagmar: | Command-line invocations for these things are *very* poorly documented |
| [04:53:05] | Dagmar: | ...at least compared to the rest of it all |
| [04:54:22] | GreyFoxx: | "RunFrontendInWindow" with a value of 1 does it for the frontend |
| [04:54:35] | GreyFoxx: | so -O RunFrontendInWindow=1 might work with mythtv-setup |
| [04:54:45] | hachi: | and setup |
| [04:54:47] | hachi: | confirmed |
| [04:55:08] | GreyFoxx: | Actually, -w might just work with setup since they share a common commandline parser |
| [04:55:15] | GreyFoxx: | the help just might need an update |
| [04:55:15] | hachi: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Settings_table |
| [04:55:22] | hachi: | found documentation |
| [04:55:30] | hachi: | just needed to search on something that actually is in it |
| [04:56:26] | GreyFoxx: | Ok, looks like mythtv-setup hasn't been moved to the common commandline parser |
| [04:57:07] | GreyFoxx: | That should be fairly easy to change |
| [04:58:36] | ** GreyFoxx should go to bed ** | |
| [04:58:56] | CCFL_Man2: | GreyFoxx: hey man, i put up an 8' dish, i'm watching qvc hd now |
| [04:59:09] | wagnerrp: | what an achievement |
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| [04:59:43] | CCFL_Man2: | picture quality of the raw feed is awesome |
| [04:59:58] | wagnerrp: | but the picture content is... lacking |
| [05:00:26] | CCFL_Man2: | i need to subscribe to the rest |
| [05:01:03] | CCFL_Man2: | but qvc is an unencrypted feed |
| [05:01:14] | CCFL_Man2: | i'm also getting c-span analog |
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| [05:05:48] | Dagmar: | I got to ask |
| [05:05:52] | solyton: | is HDpctv a good choice? |
| [05:05:54] | Dagmar: | Why the hell are you watching QVC? |
| [05:07:03] | solyton: | is HDpctv a good choice? |
| [05:08:07] | Neosat: | Any thoughts for a solution for HDDVD plugin? |
| [05:08:24] | wagnerrp: | there currently is no hddvd playback under linux |
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| [05:08:34] | CCFL_Man2: | Dagmar: i just wanted reception of the AMC11 satellite and i used their digital transponder to align it |
| [05:09:23] | Dagmar: | Ah |
| [05:10:24] | CCFL_Man2: | Dagmar: they broadcast dvb, sd and hd |
| [05:10:36] | Dagmar: | ...and sell crap. |
| [05:10:44] | CCFL_Man2: | oh they do |
| [05:11:19] | solyton: | sorry I meant this capture card pcHDTV |
| [05:11:42] | wagnerrp: | digital works just fine |
| [05:11:52] | wagnerrp: | analog is a framegrabber, and cannot be recommended |
| [05:11:53] | CCFL_Man2: | Dagmar: i got my weatherstar jr. from the weather channel yesterday too, i'll be directly subbing to them |
| [05:14:14] | CCFL_Man2: | and i'll be subbing to the diswcovery channel too |
| [05:16:46] | solyton: | wagnerrp: was that to me? |
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| [05:19:06] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc | |
| [05:19:13] | wagnerrp: | yes it was |
| [05:22:36] | solyton: | thanks, then, what what's reccomended for standard? |
| [05:23:43] | wagnerrp: | ivtv-based cards |
| [05:24:35] | solyton: | ok |
| [05:25:23] | hachi: | Dagmar: you said painter=Qt to force QT, but that's not disabling OpenGL for me |
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| [05:26:44] | hachi: | oh, ThemePainter |
| [05:30:37] | hachi: | does the Channel frequency table... of which I have set to us-cable.. have any bearing on ATSC inputs? |
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| [05:36:18] | nolen: | hello — I just installed a TV tuner card with appropriate firmware, drivers, etc and mythtv-setup successfully picks up a few OTA channels. But when I select "watch tv" in mythfrontend, it crashes. The backtrace and dmesg indicate the crash is in ld-2.7.so, which doesn't make sense to me. Any thoughts? |
| [05:42:23] | hachi: | dmesg can't say anything about ld |
| [05:42:38] | hachi: | well, I suppose it could in a panic |
| [05:42:44] | hachi: | are you seeing a panic, or a signal, or what? |
| [05:42:53] | hachi: | use pastebin and get that error up for people to see :) |
| [05:43:51] | nolen: | here's dmesg for the last four crashes: |
| [05:43:52] | nolen: | [70176.069463] mythfrontend.re[32565]: segfault at 3d4 ip 00007fc0aa18bd51 sp 0000000046040360 error 4 in ld-2.7.so[7fc0aa178000+1d000] |
| [05:43:52] | nolen: | [70180.866396] mythfrontend.re[32598]: segfault at 3d4 ip 00007f92b2485d51 sp 0000000045ac9360 error 4 in ld-2.7.so[7f92b2472000+1d000] |
| [05:43:52] | nolen: | [71037.831322] mythfrontend.re[497]: segfault at 28 ip 00007f2f28d74ac8 sp 00007fff36905bb0 error 4 in libqt-mt.so.3.3.8[7f2f28933000+9df000] |
| [05:43:53] | nolen: | [76262.843904] mythfrontend[18264]: segfault at 3d4 ip 00007fc2496a4d51 sp 00000000451282c0 error 4 in ld-2.7.so[7fc249691000+1d000] |
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| [05:43:57] | hachi: | pastebin |
| [05:44:01] | kormoc: | nolen, pastebin |
| [05:44:30] | Turno: | whats the slowest AMD cpu that can fully decode blu-ray in software? |
| [05:44:31] | nolen: | ok, have to figure that out, I was just backtracing with gdb. heh |
| [05:44:51] | Turno: | i'm thinking about buying an amd x2 5000.... can i decode blu-ray in software with that? |
| [05:46:13] | Turno: | and is it still a major pain in the ass to play a blu-ray disk on linux? |
| [05:46:37] | Turno: | mainly though, im just concerned with having enough cpu to play any retail format i throw at it |
| [05:47:06] | hachi: | nolen: is this a package based system? you could try upgrading/downgrading libqt and stuff |
| [05:48:20] | nolen: | I installed libqt4-dev to compile |
| [05:48:39] | nolen: | it's ubuntu |
| [05:50:35] | hachi: | I'm running 4.4.0–3 |
| [05:50:48] | hachi: | on an amd64 frontend |
| [05:51:15] | hachi: | oh wait, my mythtv is using qt3 |
| [05:51:22] | hachi: | 3:3.3.8b-5 |
| [05:52:50] | nolen: | yeah I'm on amd64 also. hmm, i wonder why I needed qt4 — for qmake, I think it said |
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| [05:53:02] | kormoc: | cause you're running trunk |
| [05:53:10] | kormoc: | you shouldn't be running trunk |
| [05:53:21] | nolen: | what should I be running? |
| [05:53:36] | kormoc: | stable |
| [05:53:40] | kormoc: | likely 0.21-fixes |
| [05:53:56] | kormoc: | you should likely read the docs |
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| [05:54:27] | solyton: | would you guys buf off ebay? I am looking at the WinTV PVR500 |
| [05:54:51] | solyton: | since there are NO ivtv compatible cards on newegg |
| [06:04:24] | iamlindoro: | HVR-1600 is ivtv. |
| [06:06:38] | CCFL_Man2: | iamlindoro: the weather channel sent me a weatherstar jr. with my commercial subscription purchase |
| [06:06:58] | iamlindoro: | CCFL_Man2, As always, I don't care unless it runs MythTV |
| [06:06:58] | wagnerrp: | an x2 5000, probably not |
| [06:07:45] | solyton: | iamlindoro: do u have a different list other than ivtv web? |
| [06:08:12] | solyton: | iamlindoro: this one right? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116009 |
| [06:09:09] | iamlindoro: | solyton, if you wait for someone to update web sites (especially on open source projects) you will always be behind the power curve. If you want to know what a project is doing (and ivtv is no exception) then you need to monitor their mailing lists. |
| [06:09:14] | iamlindoro: | And yes, that card. |
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| [06:09:58] | solyton: | iamlindoro: lol. I thought the web was up to date. thanks for telling me it was driving me insane |
| [06:10:21] | iamlindoro: | Web sites are seldom up to date. |
| [06:11:03] | Turno: | thanks wagnerrp |
| [06:11:39] | wagnerrp: | usually a high end core2duo is considered necessary for blueray |
| [06:12:07] | wagnerrp: | a midrange athlon would probably not be sufficient |
| [06:13:13] | solyton: | iamlindoro: ALL wintv pvr 1600 ? there are several types of the same one |
| [06:17:03] | ** directhex blinks, shakes head ** | |
| [06:17:43] | mchou: | solyton: avoid that |
| [06:18:24] | mchou: | solyton: either HW or driver is faulty on that. |
| [06:18:25] | solyton: | oh my... |
| [06:18:52] | solyton: | :( |
| [06:19:05] | mchou: | solyton: use google to see why |
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| [06:19:14] | wagnerrp: | mchou does not like the 1600, but there is currently no other ATSC + mpeg card supported by mythtv |
| [06:19:31] | wagnerrp: | you other option would be to buy an old 150/250/350/500, and then another ATSC tuner |
| [06:19:48] | mchou: | wagnerrp: lol. no, I just dont buy junk HW |
| [06:19:55] | wagnerrp: | depending on how much you can find one for on ebay, this would arguably be the same price |
| [06:20:17] | wagnerrp: | mchou: well, you did buy two of them... :P |
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| [06:20:35] | mchou: | wagnerrp: yes, and they've been RETURNED |
| [06:20:58] | solyton: | the first reviewer, corbinat, says got it working flawlessly with mythtv ---> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.a . . . E16815116010 |
| [06:21:04] | mchou: | wagnerrp: and Hauppauge has lost more than 1 customer over that fiasco |
| [06:21:20] | wagnerrp: | getting it working with mythtv shouldnt be too much of an issue |
| [06:21:28] | wagnerrp: | the complaint is more on the ATSC tuner quality |
| [06:21:59] | solyton: | atsc --> OTA ? |
| [06:22:00] | mchou: | no, the complaint is the digital side DOESNT WORK |
| [06:22:22] | mchou: | it's no longer a "quality issue" |
| [06:22:35] | solyton: | ah.. mm.. then I guess a plain pvr500 off ebay |
| [06:23:02] | mchou: | solyton: where you live? |
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| [06:23:21] | mchou: | solyton: and what exactly do you want to record? |
| [06:23:21] | solyton: | NYC |
| [06:23:51] | solyton: | analog from cable... and perhaps chekc what can I get digital |
| [06:23:56] | solyton: | with time warner |
| [06:24:01] | mchou: | I mean what are you going to use the analog for? |
| [06:24:34] | solyton: | record, view everything |
| [06:24:48] | solyton: | to watch tv, what do you mean?? |
| [06:25:11] | mchou: | dude, please be specific. What are you going to record with analog? |
| [06:25:24] | wagnerrp: | the only real solution for digital cable is recording over analog with an STB |
| [06:25:42] | wagnerrp: | some people can get extra channels over QAM, most people dont |
| [06:25:58] | wagnerrp: | some people can get extra channels over firewire, many people dont |
| [06:26:44] | solyton: | mchou: I am not getting you, record TV what else am I going to record?? |
| [06:27:00] | wagnerrp: | there are different sources |
| [06:27:15] | mchou: | solyton: what CHANNELS do you plan on recording with analog? |
| [06:27:27] | wagnerrp: | there is NTSC (broadcast), ATSC (broadcast), NTSC (cable), and QAM (cable) |
| [06:27:39] | solyton: | ohhhh... |
| [06:27:47] | wagnerrp: | local broadcast channels come in over unencrypted qam |
| [06:27:54] | solyton: | cable of course |
| [06:28:04] | mchou: | solyton: forget it |
| [06:28:05] | wagnerrp: | thats usually your limit of what you get |
| [06:28:20] | mchou: | solyton: you're a total dumbass |
| [06:28:26] | solyton: | oO |
| [06:28:27] | wagnerrp: | you may get basic cable over firewire |
| [06:28:38] | solyton: | but why?? fur chrissake!! |
| [06:28:39] | mchou: | solyton: I ask you a simple question and you cant anwer |
| [06:28:39] | wagnerrp: | but you will never get premium channels over anything but analog |
| [06:28:53] | mchou: | answer* |
| [06:29:34] | solyton: | mchou: what channels? whatever is out there, this isn't for me really but someone else and is my first time doing it. Please consider that |
| [06:29:46] | solyton: | and be a little bit patient too |
| [06:30:09] | wagnerrp: | the channels you want decide the kind of hardware you need to buy |
| [06:30:14] | mchou: | solyton: you could have stated that up fron (it's for someone else) |
| [06:30:20] | mchou: | front* |
| [06:30:40] | solyton: | then to answer your question whatever is out there to record. The thing HAS to work |
| [06:30:59] | mchou: | solyton: dude, that wasnt not my question |
| [06:31:16] | wagnerrp: | your least expensive option is to get an NTSC capture card, and a cable STB |
| [06:31:18] | solyton: | well is TIME WARNER cable basic subscription |
| [06:31:19] | mchou: | solyton: I dont recommend crap that dont work |
| [06:31:41] | wagnerrp: | just forgo anything digital |
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| [06:32:06] | mchou: | wagnerrp: that's the worst advice I've ever heard |
| [06:32:12] | solyton: | mchou: ok. then pvr150 on eBay is damn cheap |
| [06:32:19] | wagnerrp: | its the one guaranteed to work |
| [06:32:43] | mchou: | wagnerrp: especially since you dont even understand what channels the guy plans on recording |
| [06:32:46] | solyton: | mm.. wait I need a SPECIAL cable too? |
| [06:32:55] | mchou: | wagnerrp: bullshit |
| [06:33:11] | wagnerrp: | he wants cable channels |
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| [06:33:20] | wagnerrp: | QAM might work, it probably wont |
| [06:33:27] | wagnerrp: | firewire might work, it might not |
| [06:33:27] | mchou: | wagnerrp: you're daft |
| [06:33:34] | solyton: | I thought the dichotonmy was between analog and digital. |
| [06:33:46] | mchou: | wagnerrp: notice he said "basic cable" |
| [06:33:52] | solyton: | either digital channels or analog channels |
| [06:34:11] | mchou: | wagnerrp: he didnt mention anything regarding "premium cable" |
| [06:34:34] | wagnerrp: | well 'basic cable' usually means the local broadcast channels piped over cable |
| [06:34:43] | wagnerrp: | which is nearly worthless |
| [06:34:50] | wagnerrp: | i assumed thats not what he actually meant |
| [06:35:00] | mchou: | wagnerrp: precisely. If that's what he said he sould go digital |
| [06:35:34] | mchou: | wagnerrp: you sure do make some ridiculous value judgements |
| [06:35:54] | mchou: | local networks are worthless. Bwahahaha |
| [06:36:04] | wagnerrp: | thats only worthwhile if you are in an area where you cannot otherwise receive the broadcast |
| [06:36:25] | wagnerrp: | im saying its worthless to pay ~$30/mo for something you can get for free with an antenna |
| [06:36:30] | solyton: | this one http://www.timewarnercable.com/centralny/prod . . . tandard.html |
| [06:37:12] | mchou: | solyton: go get the Pinnacle 800i HDTV |
| [06:37:54] | mchou: | solyton: it will get you everything you can receive now plus more (digitally) |
| [06:38:21] | wagnerrp: | chances are all you can get digitally will be the basic channels |
| [06:38:28] | wagnerrp: | whether youre getting it over the air, or over cable |
| [06:38:34] | solyton: | mchou: thanks |
| [06:38:50] | mchou: | solyton: what's your zip code? |
| [06:39:00] | wagnerrp: | http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels/ |
| [06:39:28] | wagnerrp: | just stick it there, and it will give you a report of what you can expect to record over digital |
| [06:40:10] | solyton: | BASIC SERVICE: Major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX) ; Public Broadcasting channels; Public and leased access channel (s); Community programming channel including scholastic and collegiate sporting event coverage. (not available in all areas) |
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| [06:40:28] | mchou: | solyton: bingo! |
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| [06:40:46] | mchou: | solyton: what's your zip code? |
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| [06:41:23] | solyton: | 10030 |
| [06:42:10] | mchou: | solyton: yeah, get the pinnacle card |
| [06:42:45] | mchou: | you wont get nickolodeon or the like but you'll get plenty of other channels |
| [06:42:46] | wagnerrp: | seems you get lucky, your provider gives you a fair number of clear QAM channels |
| [06:42:53] | solyton: | wpheew!! :') thanks both of you mchou Anduin wagnerrp |
| [06:43:08] | solyton: | w00t |
| [06:43:24] | wagnerrp: | most providers only give you the local broadcast channels (thats all thats required by law) |
| [06:43:29] | solyton: | will those QAM work with the pinnacle? |
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| [06:43:46] | mchou: | solyton: yup. QAM works great on that |
| [06:43:52] | justinh: | would anybody have suggested you get it if not? |
| [06:43:56] | justinh: | I think not ;) |
| [06:44:09] | mchou: | Best QAM tuner on the market bar none |
| [06:44:19] | solyton: | wagnerrp: I familiar a little with the situation about some made available mandatory |
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| [06:45:14] | solyton: | ok now, any recent video card will do the the rest of the job right? They seem pretty powerful |
| [06:45:25] | solyton: | for TV stuff |
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| [06:47:31] | wagnerrp: | xv support is almost mandatory |
| [06:47:47] | wagnerrp: | any modern intel or nvidia card would be sufficient |
| [06:47:47] | justinh: | that leaves you with either intel or nvidia. YMMV greatly with ATI |
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| [06:48:11] | wagnerrp: | ati should work... but thats dependent on whether you can actually get the drivers installed |
| [06:48:15] | justinh: | that isn't to say ATI won't work at all, just that your mileage may vary considerably. It's far less safe a bet than nvidia |
| [06:49:08] | wagnerrp: | xvmc exists for mpeg2 decode acceleration |
| [06:49:18] | wagnerrp: | but any decent processor renders that unnecessary |
| [06:50:45] | justinh: | fwiw, just forget xvmc exists & put a decent cpu in the box |
| [06:53:47] | solyton: | odd, ATI has open source drivers |
| [06:54:10] | wagnerrp: | ATI has closed source proprietary drivers, just like nvidia |
| [06:54:18] | solyton: | no |
| [06:54:24] | wagnerrp: | there is an open source driver that has no hardware acceleration |
| [06:54:34] | solyton: | ATI made the drivers open source |
| [06:54:52] | kormoc: | solyton, no, they open sourced the hardware specs, a bit of a difference |
| [06:54:56] | wagnerrp: | ATI made their hardware specs open, and left it to the community to make drivers |
| [06:55:45] | justinh: | there are open source drivers for nvidia too. they're about as useful to mythtv users as the open source ati ones |
| [06:56:16] | justinh: | as in – people still recommend you use the binary closed source drivers ;) |
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| [06:57:01] | justinh: | course everybody would prefer to be able to say "noooo, use the open source driver" but that isn't what works best right now – so folks don't say it ;) |
| [06:57:37] | solyton: | mchou: looks like ebay is the only place where to get the Pinnacle i800 |
| [06:58:07] | wagnerrp: | you can expect to pick one up during the next wootoff |
| [06:58:32] | solyton: | wootoff??!! oO |
| [06:58:53] | justinh: | if you feel you really must use an open source driver on a graphics device go with Intel. They put their back into theirs & besides it doesn't matter how many billion texels/sec can be done on the card if it's only ever playing back video (well not til we get gpu acceleration, but that train hasn't come in yet) |
| [07:00:52] | solyton: | what about 1080p? Doesn't that need something better? |
| [07:01:17] | wagnerrp: | you need a card that will output 1080p and support xv |
| [07:01:24] | wagnerrp: | besides that, it doesnt really matter |
| [07:02:35] | justinh: | if we're talking about 1080p, that isn't broadcast anywhere & is likely to be h.264 – for that you need ZOMGMOARMHZ |
| [07:02:44] | mchou: | solyton: I have no idea what you're taling about. It's sold at CC,BB, newegg, and god knows where else |
| [07:03:16] | nonie: | does anyone know what this error means ? MythSocket(a5c12d0:19): writeStringList: No data written on writeBlock? |
| [07:03:28] | wagnerrp: | justinh: one of the QAM channels listed on silicondust was stated to be 1080p |
| [07:03:35] | justinh: | really? :-O |
| [07:03:46] | justinh: | I thought all US HD was either 720p or 1080i |
| [07:04:22] | justinh: | I'll bear that in mind though |
| [07:05:06] | wagnerrp: | AFAIK: all ATSC is interlaced, but the standard allows for progressive |
| [07:05:09] | justinh: | nonie: in what context? |
| [07:05:22] | justinh: | wagnerrp: yeah I know what the standards say (vaguely) |
| [07:05:49] | justinh: | our standard says we could have AC3 audio & DTS IIRC. All we get is joint stereo though |
| [07:05:55] | nonie: | it just keeps repeating it over and over again in my master server causing everything to to slow down backend hits 100% cpu its crazy |
| [07:05:58] | wagnerrp: | anyway, it lists TNT as 1080p |
| [07:06:24] | justinh: | classic grainy old movies in 1080p :-O |
| [07:06:25] | nonie: | i have searched and found one place that mentions it specific to that error but no help :) |
| [07:06:56] | solyton: | mchou: this the only pinnacle hd card in newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815144018 |
| [07:06:57] | justinh: | nonie: looks like something to do with not being able to write to disk |
| [07:07:04] | nonie: | also i think it happens after a good usage or when box begins to run mythfilldatabase |
| [07:07:16] | nonie: | ya thats what i thought but i have tested drives and they both passed |
| [07:07:21] | justinh: | how busy is your box's IO ? |
| [07:07:30] | justinh: | dma enabled? |
| [07:07:34] | nonie: | yeppers |
| [07:07:36] | justinh: | yada yada yada |
| [07:07:43] | justinh: | frag much? ;) |
| [07:07:46] | nonie: | and prey busy |
| [07:07:52] | nonie: | and its a new install :) |
| [07:07:53] | justinh: | well define 'busy' |
| [07:08:13] | nonie: | 3 slaves with a custom recording to record all comedy on any channel |
| [07:08:16] | justinh: | busy as in always recording something, or busy as in you're a bittorrent node |
| [07:08:19] | nonie: | with 3 starts or more at any time |
| [07:08:44] | nonie: | unless i have a different priority set to record something else :) |
| [07:09:19] | justinh: | even 3 simultaneous recordings shouldn't be giving you problems |
| [07:09:26] | justinh: | heck even if they were 'HD' |
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| [07:09:40] | nonie: | ya i have my HD PVR Just sitting :) |
| [07:09:55] | nonie: | not quite brave enough to step up to dev :) |
| [07:10:09] | justinh: | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279349 |
| [07:10:53] | nonie: | i hate that :) |
| [07:10:53] | mchou: | solyton: that's the 800i |
| [07:11:00] | nonie: | thanks for making me look search stupid |
| [07:11:04] | justinh: | my first suggestion would be to disable mysql binary logging |
| [07:11:14] | justinh: | if it happens more during db operations... |
| [07:11:19] | nonie: | jk no seriously i have spend hours looking :) |
| [07:11:31] | nonie: | ya it does happen more during db operations |
| [07:11:51] | justinh: | well, this wasn't me searching. I remembered seeing a mention of the writeblock error on one of the lists |
| [07:12:04] | justinh: | it pays to keep up to speed with the mailing lists |
| [07:12:18] | nonie: | i will update this other forum seams to be happening |
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| [07:12:23] | nonie: | to |
| [07:12:48] | justinh: | a 'me too' addition to the ticket is worthless in this context |
| [07:13:30] | nonie: | lol ya |
| [07:13:36] | solyton: | mchou: thank you very much!! finally DONE!! now comes the fun part :) |
| [07:13:55] | justinh: | the question was asked whether svn trunk exhibits the problem or not.. this has gone unanswered so the ticket will no doubt die until somebody gives a developer some info to go on |
| [07:14:10] | nonie: | i promise that wasn |
| [07:14:17] | nonie: | *wasn't* |
| [07:14:19] | nonie: | me |
| [07:14:26] | justinh: | nobody is saying it was |
| [07:14:55] | justinh: | just pointing out that nobody can fix a problem like this without having any info ;) |
| [07:15:05] | nonie: | lol |
| [07:15:11] | justinh: | do you have a lot of shows being expired regularly? |
| [07:15:36] | justinh: | or do you manually delete a lot of stuff? |
| [07:15:44] | nonie: | i would say both kinda |
| [07:15:47] | justinh: | and do you use ext3 ? |
| [07:15:49] | nonie: | yes |
| [07:15:52] | nonie: | on the ext3 |
| [07:15:58] | nonie: | and its on a logical volume |
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| [07:16:08] | justinh: | and have you enabled 'delete files slowly' in mythtv? |
| [07:16:13] | nonie: | spanned over 3 drives |
| [07:16:28] | justinh: | if not, I suspect the problem is that your box is on the verge of being iobound & that's the cause |
| [07:16:28] | nonie: | that one i am not sure about i can go look really quick if you like :) |
| [07:16:49] | nonie: | allthough last night when it happend i was not doing nothing not even using box |
| [07:17:00] | nonie: | and it seams to happen right during a mythfilldatabase |
| [07:17:09] | nonie: | or like right after i should say |
| [07:17:18] | solyton: | will ssd drives be better for recording? |
| [07:18:13] | nonie: | and the time before that i was in the middle of switching recordings from one to the other and it happened |
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| [07:19:27] | nonie: | but the two major things i did before any of this mess was upgrade from fedora core 7 to 8 and add that custom recording for comedy after that it all went down hill |
| [07:19:28] | nonie: | brb |
| [07:20:28] | justinh: | let me think.. ssd drives big enough to compete with HDD space needed for tv recording.. KERCHING! |
| [07:21:01] | justinh: | just use the right file system, or enable slow file deletes & you should be fine |
| [07:21:12] | justinh: | no pissing around with LVM needed |
| [07:21:54] | wagnerrp: | do SSD drives actually have comparable write speeds? |
| [07:22:19] | justinh: | probably not |
| [07:22:33] | wagnerrp: | i know at least with CF cards as boot drives, the write performance is SUBSTANTIALLY less than the read performance |
| [07:22:43] | justinh: | random access speeds will likely be a lot better |
| [07:22:52] | nonie: | ok what if i want an insane amount of space like 1.5tb out of 3 500GB :) |
| [07:23:01] | wagnerrp: | for whatever thats worth |
| [07:23:07] | justinh: | nonie: use storage groups |
| [07:23:07] | nonie: | i will try that and see what happens :) |
| [07:23:15] | nonie: | ok |
| [07:23:26] | nonie: | so no spanning |
| [07:23:26] | justinh: | that's what they're for |
| [07:23:50] | justinh: | spanning, ext3 ... they're slowing you down |
| [07:23:53] | nonie: | slows down writes and uses cpu :) |
| [07:23:59] | nonie: | what file system ? |
| [07:24:07] | wagnerrp: | even spanning has issues with a drive failure |
| [07:24:15] | justinh: | add mysql binary logging to the mix & there's plenty to play with |
| [07:24:17] | nonie: | ya not worried about failure |
| [07:24:43] | justinh: | wouldn't it be better to lose only 500GB at a time though? ;) |
| [07:25:12] | solyton: | I think ssd prices will come crashing down because now add ALL the ram makers jumping into the bandwaggon |
| [07:25:26] | nonie: | ya it all makes complete since but what file system i though ext 3 was good ? |
| [07:25:46] | justinh: | I used to use ext3 but I ran into a massive problem when I tried to delete 300GB of recordings in one go |
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| [07:26:04] | nonie: | k lol so what do you recommend ? |
| [07:26:08] | wagnerrp: | ext3 is a nice stable reliable file system |
| [07:26:14] | justinh: | btw how full is the partition where the mysql database lives? |
| [07:26:20] | wagnerrp: | but its performance leaves something to be desired |
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| [07:26:31] | justinh: | you can use ext3 if you enable mythtv's slow file delete feature |
| [07:26:57] | justinh: | I think it's only in the general section of mythtv-setup.. I'm not sure |
| [07:27:18] | nonie: | ive just always used ext3 with no problem :) |
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| [07:27:53] | nonie: | there is 60gb free out of 80gb |
| [07:28:25] | justinh: | it's always no problem until there's a problem :P |
| [07:28:36] | nonie: | ya that's for sure |
| [07:28:45] | nonie: | ive been using myth since 0.18 :) |
| [07:28:53] | justinh: | I had no problem, until I had a problem. then I lost the database & had to restore a backup |
| [07:29:09] | nonie: | come to think of it that did happen to me with a few tables awhile back :) |
| [07:29:11] | wagnerrp: | the fault in ext3 is comes when you try to delete something while wanting to do something else |
| [07:29:26] | wagnerrp: | file deletion takes a long time, and hangs up all other processes |
| [07:29:28] | justinh: | yeah but until now were you recording as much & expiring/deleting as much as you went? |
| [07:29:43] | nonie: | nope |
| [07:29:47] | justinh: | probably not. bingo |
| [07:29:55] | wagnerrp: | if you delete enough at once, you could take so long that you run out of disk write cache |
| [07:29:59] | wagnerrp: | and you lose a recording |
| [07:30:02] | kormoc: | I like ext3, but I siwtched to jfs for my pure tv recordings, as I don't care if I lose them really |
| [07:30:04] | wagnerrp: | or worse, trash your database |
| [07:30:07] | justinh: | it might not be THE factor but it's lookiing likely |
| [07:30:19] | nonie: | defintally |
| [07:32:22] | nonie: | ok i will do some digging and see if i can get this solved :) that really gives me some starting places i will inform you of the progress and go from there |
| [07:35:11] | nonie: | thanks again everyone i really truly am thankful for all the help thanks again good night |
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| [08:24:17] | Neosat: | I can get mythtv to open my second DVB-s. I get: Operation not allowed |
| [08:24:34] | Neosat: | sorry can = cant |
| [08:25:34] | Neosat: | I can scan for channels with my second device with no problem but when I try to run mythbackend I get the above error |
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| [08:32:54] | hume: | hi.....i've suddenly ran into a new problem with my master backend – it uses a TT 1501-C dvb-c capture card, that has been working properly for some weeks. Now the frontend says that it cannot get "lock" on the channels, and the backend log is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/58254/ |
| [08:33:23] | hume: | anyone knows what this might relate to? I just updated drivers, v4l with mercurial |
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| [08:33:48] | hume: | i mean, i updated drivers but that did not change it – problem was present before |
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| [08:40:20] | jeffery: | hello guys |
| [08:40:33] | jeffery: | I have a problem with my new myth setup |
| [08:41:22] | jeffery: | when ever I get out of mythtv-setup I get a warning: "path recordings/ doesn't exist". Where should I create this path? Right now I can't watch anything |
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| [08:41:57] | hume: | jeffery, seems you have set a path in Storage groups that does not exist? |
| [08:42:10] | Neosat: | Did you create the Storage directories? |
| [08:42:37] | Led-Hed: | I just installed MythUbuntu. It didnt create the Database, what package creates the DB? |
| [08:42:45] | laga_: | Led-Hed: mythtv-database. |
| [08:42:50] | laga_: | did ypou use the alternate disk? |
| [08:42:51] | Led-Hed: | thank you |
| [08:42:53] | jeffery: | Neosat: where do I create the path is what I don't know |
| [08:43:06] | Neosat: | mythtv-setup |
| [08:43:21] | laga_: | Led-Hed: sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-database |
| [08:43:25] | jeffery: | Neosat: in storage directories?/ |
| [08:43:25] | Led-Hed: | ugh. It says its already installed |
| [08:43:31] | Led-Hed: | thanks |
| [08:44:21] | Neosat: | yes last in mythtv-setup menu |
| [08:44:26] | Led-Hed: | there it is. Thanks laga_ |
| [08:45:33] | jeffery: | Neosat: there is a "Default" storage group already |
| [08:45:50] | hume: | anyone got any idea on my problem with "lock" on channels? |
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| [08:50:30] | jeffery: | I get an error from mythtv-setup: "No Storage Group directories are defined. You must add at least one directory to the Default Storage Group where new recordings will be stored". When I create a storage group it says the directory is missing.. |
| [08:51:55] | Led-Hed: | is there anything special I need to do when setting up a firewire capture device? Are there special steps to get Channel Changing to work, or does 0.21 handle all that by default now? |
| [08:52:32] | jduggan: | check the wiki |
| [08:52:34] | jduggan: | =] |
| [08:53:53] | hume: | jeffery, are you sure you type in a directory path that does exist? does mythtv have write access to it? |
| [08:54:13] | hume: | jeffery, in the Storage Group entry in the mythtv-setup |
| [08:56:40] | Led-Hed: | I searched the Wiki for firewire. There is a lotta old stuff. |
| [08:57:06] | Led-Hed: | like the channel change script. I was just curious as to if I still need to do that |
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| [08:59:29] | jeffery: | hume: I didn't know that it has to be complete directory path |
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| [08:59:32] | jeffery: | tries now |
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| [09:04:02] | justinh: | hume: well, did you even test the card before setting up mythtv on the box? |
| [09:04:51] | justinh: | people always underestimate the importance of establishing the hardware is working _before_ going into mythtv |
| [09:05:31] | jeffery: | ok storage directories is sorted out |
| [09:05:46] | jeffery: | now have new problem.. not getting channel lock :( |
| [09:06:10] | justinh: | again I can only reiterate the importance of knowing the hardware is good first |
| [09:06:35] | justinh: | not just that it works – but that it works on the very system & OS you're on |
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| [09:06:39] | hume: | justinh, the card has worked very well for a few weeks... |
| [09:07:03] | justinh: | yeah but you frickin moved it |
| [09:07:09] | hume: | moved? |
| [09:08:37] | justinh: | oops. I misread |
| [09:08:44] | justinh: | anyway you changed stuff around |
| [09:09:11] | justinh: | and that log output is saying nothing of note |
| [09:09:26] | justinh: | stop mythbackend and test the tuner properly |
| [09:09:30] | hume: | justinh, what I done was to add a slave backend yesterday, then this began, then I updated drivers |
| [09:09:38] | justinh: | stop mythbackend and test the tuner properly |
| [09:09:41] | justinh: | stop mythbackend and test the tuner properly |
| [09:09:45] | hume: | but i think it is solved now.... |
| [09:09:52] | hume: | tuner tested, ok |
| [09:10:21] | hume: | and now I have deleted cards and videosources in the backend, and done it allover again – now it works again |
| [09:11:13] | hume: | i'll leave it at this for a day or two and do some reading about master backends |
| [09:11:53] | hume: | just one question: the script myth.rebuilddatabase.pl – where can I find this? I have installed myth as ubuntu packages – find no "contrib" directory |
| [09:12:13] | justinh: | the _locate_ command is handy |
| [09:13:16] | hume: | locate didnt find it |
| [09:13:31] | justinh: | then your friendly local ubuntu packager didn't include it |
| [09:13:39] | hume: | the script...ok, i'll try locate contrib |
| [09:13:42] | hume: | :) |
| [09:14:05] | hume: | ok..now i found it...thx |
| [09:14:17] | hume: | in /usr/share/mythtv-backend/contrib |
| [09:14:50] | justinh: | as far as reading up on 'master backends' is concerned there are really no specifics in the docs |
| [09:15:37] | hume: | ok...got any advice on how to understand more about it? |
| [09:15:51] | hume: | i feel too much on too deep waters here |
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| [09:18:38] | justinh: | what's there to misunderstand? |
| [09:19:08] | jduggan: | 42 |
| [09:20:18] | hume: | justinh, all.....actually, i don't know, i just feel in too deep waters – confused on how to configure a slave, how to run myth with mutiple backends, etc – my feeling is that adding a slave messed things up over here – or rather: when I added a slave I messed things up |
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| [09:24:59] | pbj: | Hey guys – run into a problem with a fresh install of my whole setup – and it seems like I'm getting a error connecting to the mysql-db. My mythtv user are not able to login to the DB access denied. But since I got # skip-networing – its a problem about rigths |
| [09:27:22] | pbj: | Does anybody have the same problem with a fresh install – I've just posted a lot of details about on the supportlist, But cannot see where the errorshould be – Ran mc.sql — after editing the passwd use the new passwd – but each time I'm just getting access denied |
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| [09:34:02] | hume: | pbj, getting access denied from database? |
| [09:34:29] | hume: | pbj, have you tried accessing the database from command line? mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg |
| [09:34:56] | justinh: | I wish to hell people would read the official docs FFS |
| [09:37:04] | hume: | justinh, i think there is a problem of knowing where to look, actually – it is easy getting more confused than usual with myth |
| [09:37:47] | hume: | have no great idea on it, though |
| [09:37:56] | justinh: | http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.3 |
| [09:38:01] | justinh: | configuring a non-master backend |
| [09:38:43] | pbj: | hume: yes several times – Also getting access denied there – the only error is mysql: could not connect to socket --its placed /tmp/mysql.sock |
| [09:39:03] | hume: | is mysql running? |
| [09:39:13] | hume: | just type mysql, what does that give you? |
| [09:39:18] | hume: | what distro? |
| [09:39:18] | justinh: | did you restart mysql after commenting out skip-networking? |
| [09:41:11] | pbj: | Yes – Mysql is running -/tmp/mysql.sock exits – have outcomment skip-networking and rebootet. Mysql is running – using root – no problems! THe Distro is ArchLinux |
| [09:42:24] | hume: | pbj, in mine, ubuntu, i have to set bind-address = <ipnumber> in /etc/mysql/my.cnf....? not commenting out skip-networking |
| [09:42:38] | justinh: | can you still log into the mysql server on the same box as the 'mythtv' user? |
| [09:43:02] | justinh: | the default is only to allow logins identified by 'mythtv' on localhost |
| [09:43:28] | justinh: | http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html |
| [09:43:48] | justinh: | see the section entitled "Modifying access to the MySQL database for multiple systems" |
| [09:44:34] | justinh: | who would've thought that the answers would be in the official docs eh. if you read that & still have questions, ask away |
| [09:45:16] | pbj: | The default is – and I did read this and modified the system! I can log into the DB from localhost – but not from others -My DB shows that % before the mythconverg |
| [09:46:20] | justinh: | are you using the option in your mysql command wen you try to log in remotely? |
| [09:46:26] | justinh: | er.. -h option |
| [09:46:41] | justinh: | meaning -h $ipaddress |
| [09:46:46] | justinh: | or -h $hostname |
| [09:47:11] | pbj: | -h IP |
| [09:47:46] | justinh: | then your mysql privileges are still gash |
| [09:47:53] | justinh: | read that page I linked to |
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| [09:52:23] | justinh: | ruh? wifey's asking me to set up Zane Lowe to record this Monday |
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| [09:54:05] | Led-Hed: | where does myth store its recordings? |
| [09:54:22] | justinh: | wherever you tell it to |
| [09:54:31] | Led-Hed: | I knew that was comming. |
| [09:54:37] | Led-Hed: | what is the default path |
| [09:54:41] | justinh: | so wtf did you ask? |
| [09:54:50] | justinh: | depends on which packages you run |
| [09:54:57] | Led-Hed: | mythubuntu |
| [09:55:06] | justinh: | somebody skipped a vital step of mythtv-setup methinks |
| [09:55:19] | justinh: | the setps go 1 2 3 4 5 6 – not 1 2 4 5 quit |
| [09:55:40] | justinh: | run mythtv-setup, have a look :) |
| [09:55:49] | Led-Hed: | cant |
| [09:56:08] | justinh: | there is no such thing as can't |
| [09:56:09] | Led-Hed: | backend is recording |
| [09:56:32] | Led-Hed: | running mythtv-setup requires the backend be stopped |
| [09:56:43] | pbj: | justinh: not shure if this is rigth – My mythbackend gives a strange error -> 2008-10–16 11:56:14.641 Unable to connect to database! |
| [09:56:44] | pbj: | 2008-10–16 11:56:14.645 Driver error was [1/1045]: |
| [09:56:44] | pbj: | QMYSQL3: Unable to connect |
| [09:56:44] | pbj: | Database error was: |
| [09:56:44] | pbj: | Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES) |
| [09:56:50] | justinh: | pbj: PASTEBIN |
| [09:57:09] | Led-Hed: | 1/2 the reason I asked (because I cant look at this moment) |
| [09:57:30] | pbj: | Well – sorry would do becaurse of the size sorry! |
| [09:57:34] | Led-Hed: | pbj, does the DB exist |
| [09:57:37] | justinh: | Led-Hed: ask in #ubuntu-mythtv what the default is, but you really (I mean REALLY) should know this stuff |
| [09:58:06] | Led-Hed: | justinh, like I said I dont typically use MythUbuntu |
| [09:58:26] | Led-Hed: | I usually set my own path = /VIDEO/... |
| [09:58:27] | pbj: | http://pastebin.ca/1228254 -here the output of the backend. |
| [09:58:28] | justinh: | so did it skip the part of setting up storage groups for you? |
| [09:58:45] | justinh: | pbj: stop |
| [09:59:11] | Led-Hed: | justinh, I accepted the defaults because this setup is just to test out firewire capture. nothing more. |
| [09:59:15] | justinh: | Led-Hed: it's prolly something daft like /var/lib/$something |
| [09:59:36] | justinh: | Led-Hed: you can use mysql to find out |
| [09:59:46] | justinh: | select * from storagegroups; |
| [09:59:53] | Led-Hed: | thank you |
| [10:00:10] | justinh: | but ffs, take note of this stuff in future. it's useful to know! |
| [10:00:18] | pbj: | Led-Hed: yes – it exist – I've run the mc.sql into – and show databases in mysql shows the mythconverg |
| [10:00:33] | justinh: | pbj: stop |
| [10:00:39] | justinh: | is it a master backend? |
| [10:00:48] | pbj: | yes |
| [10:00:51] | justinh: | was it working before you changed the mysql stuff? |
| [10:01:32] | Led-Hed: | justinh, I dont do this stuff every day. I forget most of what I learn as I dont usually have to touch my backend but once or twice a year |
| [10:01:38] | Led-Hed: | but thank you for the tip |
| [10:01:42] | justinh: | pbj: and have you ran mythtv-setup to verify that the settings are correct? |
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| [10:02:05] | justinh: | Led-Hed: still though, it's more than just 'handy' to know where the box is going to stuff its files ;) |
| [10:02:20] | pbj: | Well – normally It has run for 2years now – but after bying some new cards – I chose to reinstall the whole setup (also for my own documentation) – I've ran mythtv-setup several times. |
| [10:02:43] | Led-Hed: | justinh, agreed. and on my production box I do know. Like I said this is just a temp install to test out firewire capture. |
| [10:02:50] | justinh: | pbj: so now the mysql server is running on the LAN ip of the machine as opposed to being bound to localhost, right? |
| [10:03:08] | Sulx: | anyone know irxevent compatible window managers? |
| [10:03:33] | Sulx: | tying to set alt-tab switch...but openbox doesn't seemto work.. |
| [10:03:53] | pbj: | Should be bound to 172.16.20.10 – which is my masterbackends IP |
| [10:03:55] | justinh: | jesus h christ I have a recording conflict |
| [10:04:28] | justinh: | 15 tuners & I have a conflict :-O |
| [10:05:00] | Sulx: | 15 tuners? O_o |
| [10:06:25] | justinh: | the problem was that the schedule called for several things to be recorded but on more than 3 multiplexes. heh |
| [10:06:55] | justinh: | 3 real tuners, 5 simultaneous recordings per tuner :) |
| [10:07:19] | Sulx: | tought so...thats not 15 tuners ;) |
| [10:07:27] | justinh: | might aswell be :D |
| [10:07:35] | justinh: | my wife's fault for wanting zane lowe recorded |
| [10:07:48] | Sulx: | no its not =) |
| [10:07:53] | justinh: | so now it's gonna be but at the expense of Louis Theroux being recorded the next night instead |
| [10:08:02] | justinh: | YES IT IS |
| [10:08:07] | justinh: | welcome to the ignore list asshole |
| [10:08:24] | Sulx: | thanks =) |
| [10:09:23] | justinh: | my patience has been tried enough today. thank others for that |
| [10:10:11] | justinh: | well, good luck noobs |
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| [10:13:51] | solyton: | what are the recommended ports for a Video card to have? |
| [10:14:10] | pat__: | that depends entirely on what you are attaching it to |
| [10:14:21] | solyton: | there are several options. hdmi/vga/... |
| [10:14:27] | solyton: | mm.. |
| [10:14:51] | solyton: | to a TV and to a computer moniter |
| [10:15:06] | pat__: | well if it were my monitor and tv I'd say hdmi |
| [10:15:10] | solyton: | by the way what's the best way to attach to a tv? cable wise |
| [10:15:42] | pat__: | hdmi/vga/component/svideo/composite in that order would be a rough guide |
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| [10:16:34] | pat__: | hdmi is the same as dvi |
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| [10:24:12] | directhex: | displayport! |
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| [10:27:43] | solyton: | what's displayport? |
| [10:29:03] | Scopeuk: | the "next gen" connector for displays |
| [10:29:15] | Scopeuk: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displayport |
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| [10:43:23] | justinh: | wtf? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Njc4Ng |
| [10:43:28] | justinh: | no, I mean WTF?!?!?!?! |
| [10:45:54] | directhex: | ati beats nvidia to linux functionality? |
| [10:46:14] | justinh: | there are so many different ways to find that 'news' hard to believe |
| [10:46:28] | justinh: | but if it turns out to be true.. :O |
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| [10:51:05] | directhex: | gbee, did gbee see? |
| [10:51:18] | justinh: | yeah he's seen |
| [10:51:27] | justinh: | can't find owt about it on /. though |
| [10:51:32] | justinh: | somewhat surprising |
| [10:52:31] | justinh: | sweepstake anybody? how long before the "muh, supports UVD, why not mythtv?" questioning starts ;) |
| [10:52:36] | gbee: | drivers only been properly released in the last couple of hours |
| [10:52:57] | gbee: | release notes haven't even been written yet |
| [10:54:05] | gbee: | same release added XvMC along with UVD, which is impressive – busy bees |
| [10:54:48] | justinh: | well, if true I expect some people will be all over it like a rash in next to no time |
| [10:55:06] | pat__: | if it is all supported and working, what exactly does it mean? accelerated xvid/h264/mpeg2 playback? |
| [10:55:12] | justinh: | pat__: yup |
| [10:55:27] | pat__: | neat |
| [10:55:29] | justinh: | it's very big news if true |
| [10:55:39] | justinh: | once all the API is figured out & stuff |
| [10:56:11] | justinh: | might even give nvidia a kick up the arse, you never know |
| [10:56:25] | gbee: | a few reports that Flash video is already hardware accelerated with this driver ... |
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| [11:04:45] | jduggan: | erm |
| [11:04:51] | jduggan: | thats sweet |
| [11:04:57] | jduggan: | ifit all works =] |
| [11:07:43] | pat__: | hope it works better than xvmc support, never could get the video to work 100% correctly with that |
| [11:08:46] | gbee: | guessing it will still be a few weeks before people work out how it's supposed to be used and maybe another couple of driver releases to work out any bugs |
| [11:08:56] | laga_: | hum |
| [11:09:00] | laga_: | i will buy a new box next month |
| [11:09:08] | laga_: | i hope they have something working then |
| [11:09:17] | laga_: | because right now i prefer nvidia |
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| [11:13:01] | gbee: | think something has broken at emusic, on the basis of my past downloads I'm have a bunch of Easy Listening and Jazz offered to me |
| [11:13:13] | gbee: | and four albums of CCWR |
| [11:13:37] | ** gbee sighs ** | |
| [11:14:41] | pat__: | I don't know what ccwr is |
| [11:15:36] | pat__: | google doesn't help either unless it is California Council of Wildlife Rehabilitators |
| [11:16:00] | gbee: | CCR |
| [11:16:49] | pat__: | aah, gotcha! |
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| [12:01:43] | ** justinh wonders where ITV uk_rt data has gone ** | |
| [12:02:10] | justinh: | nothing for Oct 24 & onwards at all |
| [12:03:50] | mzb_d800: | is there likely to be a comment re bug#5827 or am I asking too early? |
| [12:04:15] | justinh: | ruh? the .dat file for ITV1 granada has data for after that.. hmmm |
| [12:04:24] | ** mzb_d800 casually wonders how many ppl read mythtv bug reports ** | |
| [12:04:40] | justinh: | mzb_d800: everybody who subscribes to the -commits list sees them |
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| [12:05:22] | mzb_d800: | fair enough ... do you feel that I should be adding any information to that report justinh? |
| [12:05:36] | justinh: | you'll probably be asked to get some -verbose info |
| [12:06:02] | justinh: | maybe -v siparser.. and possibly some info from dvbsnoop too |
| [12:06:32] | justinh: | eg. mythtv-setup -v siparser ... not sure |
| [12:06:34] | mzb_d800: | ok ... thx ... I'll wait |
| [12:08:22] | justinh: | yours prolly isn't the only scanning ticket open |
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| [12:08:45] | justinh: | if you could put your database somewhere safe & try trunk it'd probably help no end too |
| [12:09:20] | mzb_d800: | I got the impression there where other tickets still open |
| [12:09:49] | mzb_d800: | that said, it seems to me that this is a fundamental problem with a simple solution |
| [12:10:23] | mzb_d800: | (and the possible addition of a "translator" radio button springs to mind) |
| [12:10:27] | laga_: | then provide that solution? |
| [12:11:10] | mzb_d800: | laga_: I'm happy to do so if/when I get feedback/suggestions to my bug report |
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| [12:11:40] | justinh: | mzb_d800: it might help to know the people who'd ordinarily look after the scanning code are busy with other stuff |
| [12:11:51] | justinh: | so it might not be hopped on for a while |
| [12:11:57] | mzb_d800: | (if the responsible dev doesn't have a better idea, or hasn't already corrected it) |
| [12:12:07] | gbee: | mzb_d800: we've about 5 active devs right now and 600 tickets – give it time, lots of time |
| [12:12:08] | mzb_d800: | np |
| [12:12:17] | mzb_d800: | again, np |
| [12:12:47] | justinh: | how's the triaging going btw? |
| [12:13:06] | laga_: | i'm busy with mythbuntu tickets right now :( |
| [12:13:13] | laga_: | although i closed 15 there the other day |
| [12:13:21] | justinh: | sod it. gonna take a look & see if there are any I could tackle |
| [12:13:41] | mzb_d800: | justinh: btw, trying trunk is not an option atm as I've not got all my FE's back online yet |
| [12:13:56] | mzb_d800: | (WAF comes before mythtv bugs;)) |
| [12:16:20] | mzb_d800: | on a good note I can say that my MBE is giving me better (and generally more reliable) viewing experience than stb atm |
| [12:16:36] | mzb_d800: | kinda weird, I know! |
| [12:17:02] | justinh: | mzb_d800: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3640 looks very similar somehow |
| [12:17:44] | justinh: | for dvb-c I know but looks like the table frequencyis being stored rather than the tuned freq. (if that's what happens) |
| [12:18:19] | mzb_d800: | justinh: that may be the same problem, but afaict the author doesn't understand the issue, so it's hard to tell |
| [12:18:43] | justinh: | yeah not sure they should be using dvb-c in the UK. slapped wrists ahoy |
| [12:19:04] | justinh: | though since yesterday the whole VirginMedia T&Cs thing has gone from clear as crystal to er.. not |
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| [12:19:19] | mzb_d800: | afaik I've given the exact reason for the problem, and also afaik the solution is quite simple (given my very basic understanding of the problem) |
| [12:20:39] | justinh: | actually you could prolly do a bit of digging with dvbsnoop |
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| [12:21:02] | justinh: | find out what's actually being reported from the translator |
| [12:21:13] | justinh: | that'd at least back up the theory |
| [12:21:15] | mzb_d800: | possibly, but that's only going to prove what I already know (for others, I guess) |
| [12:21:22] | mzb_d800: | however, I'm guessing there are various reasons why it's done the way it is, so I'm tempted to suggest a "translator" option |
| [12:21:48] | mzb_d800: | (ie: use tuned frequency rather than reported frequency) |
| [12:21:48] | justinh: | do you see now why I go off on one about 'standards' ? ;) |
| [12:22:03] | mzb_d800: | this is not about standards |
| [12:22:10] | justinh: | the specs say one thing, practise says another |
| [12:22:21] | mzb_d800: | this is about local methods |
| [12:22:35] | justinh: | local methods which deviate from specs |
| [12:22:40] | justinh: | DVB is chock full of them |
| [12:22:48] | laga_: | and adding more checkboxes is not exactly a good solution |
| [12:22:54] | mzb_d800: | .au docs even mention the different methods used by .us and eu |
| [12:23:08] | mzb_d800: | and compare their weaknesses/strengths |
| [12:23:14] | justinh: | is there a freq. table setting for .au ? |
| [12:23:24] | justinh: | maybe tie it into that |
| [12:23:36] | mzb_d800: | justinh: the frequency table is not the problem |
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| [12:23:42] | justinh: | I know |
| [12:24:10] | justinh: | but I'm trying to suggest a way the workaround could be implemented without the user having to know wth a translator is |
| [12:24:34] | justinh: | might also help for other places where workarounds are needed actually |
| [12:24:39] | mzb_d800: | the problem is that the scanner is taking the frequencies reported by the TS, rather than the tuned frequency ... assuming that the TS is not from a translator |
| [12:24:45] | justinh: | yeah I know |
| [12:25:13] | mzb_d800: | so the question is ... from your point of view, whether a translator is part of the standard? |
| [12:25:16] | justinh: | but there could be a test in the scanner... e.g. if $freqtable =="AU" { doTHATthing } |
| [12:25:56] | mzb_d800: | or perhaps a translator should be re-encoding the PS's into a new TS with new frequencies? |
| [12:26:01] | mzb_d800: | I think not |
| [12:26:01] | justinh: | or, while scanning do an actual check to see if there's anything on the frequency reported in the table |
| [12:26:14] | mzb_d800: | the bottom line is that the scanner needs more intelligence |
| [12:26:27] | mzb_d800: | (or a "(*&(*&(*&" radio button!;)) |
| [12:26:34] | justinh: | the bottom line is that the basic dvb specs say you should use what are in the tables |
| [12:26:42] | mzb_d800: | ok |
| [12:26:44] | justinh: | which is why they're there in the 1st place |
| [12:26:59] | laga_: | i wonder if there are some other tables in the stream which refer to the correct frequencies |
| [12:27:00] | mzb_d800: | I like your suggestion ... rescan the reported frequency |
| [12:27:05] | justinh: | where mythtv falls down is these 'special' cases where the spec isn't followed |
| [12:27:26] | justinh: | might be the Other Networks table or whatever it is |
| [12:27:33] | justinh: | wonder is stuarta has a sec |
| [12:27:37] | justinh: | *if |
| [12:27:46] | mzb_d800: | => if the reported frequency != working, then use tuned freq |
| [12:28:17] | mzb_d800: | (however that doesn't take into account the possibility that the tuner can receive both) |
| [12:28:39] | justinh: | yeah but that isn't the expected case is it? ;) |
| [12:28:48] | mzb_d800: | (shades of grey involved?) |
| [12:29:15] | justinh: | time to do some reading up on dvbsnoop |
| [12:29:29] | mzb_d800: | justinh: I'm guessing your version (no sarcasm involved) of the spec doesn't involve translators |
| [12:29:49] | justinh: | the difference between a translator & a relay |
| [12:30:08] | justinh: | a translator is just rebroadcasting the stream in as dumb a manner as can be |
| [12:30:27] | justinh: | they just remodulate it on a different freq. |
| [12:30:35] | justinh: | whereas a relay involves demodulating |
| [12:30:37] | mzb_d800: | yep |
| [12:30:40] | justinh: | & remodulating |
| [12:30:50] | mzb_d800: | that's my understanding |
| [12:31:08] | justinh: | as laga pointed out there could even be a table I don't know about where other freqs are mentioned |
| [12:31:16] | mzb_d800: | so how is a translator "out of spec" ... and why can't mythtv allow for it? |
| [12:31:22] | justinh: | one we've so far ignored cos there was no need |
| [12:31:29] | mzb_d800: | ok |
| [12:31:50] | mzb_d800: | so you're saying that I'm in a perfect position to find this out? |
| [12:32:02] | mzb_d800: | (possibly with dvbsnoop?) |
| [12:32:07] | justinh: | yup |
| [12:32:18] | justinh: | how the freqs are reported.. I dunno |
| [12:32:26] | mzb_d800: | looks like some ppl need to reply to the bug report then! :)) |
| [12:33:13] | mzb_d800: | more than happy to provide info for the bug |
| [12:33:21] | justinh: | lemme see what I can do |
| [12:33:27] | mzb_d800: | k, thx |
| [12:34:57] | mzb_d800: | ps: keep in mind that it's vaguely possible that I could get dvbsnoop results from both the main transmitter and the translator simultaneously |
| [12:35:26] | mzb_d800: | however, due to circumstances, the most likely time that this will happen is tomorrow |
| [12:35:59] | justinh: | right. dvbsnoop -n 1 -nph 0x10 |
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| [12:36:13] | justinh: | when a card is tuned should dump out the mux freq info |
| [12:36:58] | mzb_d800: | I have several hours with a renowned RF expert (Dad) at my disposal, so as much feedback as possible now will give mythtv the best results possible (between the two of us) |
| [12:37:10] | justinh: | http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/snooped.txt |
| [12:37:30] | justinh: | look for DVB-DescriptorTag: 98 (0x62) [= frequency_list_descriptor] |
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| [12:38:04] | justinh: | see if those correspond to the actual frequency you're tuned to – if not, that's definitely the problem AFAICT |
| [12:39:52] | justinh: | actually I think the key one is Center frequency: 0x04d4375b (= 810166.067 kHz) – that's what the table contains for the currently tuned mux, not what the driver returns for the tuned freq |
| [12:40:27] | justinh: | the part just under |
| [12:40:35] | justinh: | descriptor tag 0x90 |
| [12:40:42] | justinh: | damnit |
| [12:40:47] | justinh: | tag 0x5a |
| [12:40:52] | justinh: | you got it? |
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| [12:41:18] | mzb_d800: | k, just updating box (haven't got apt-caching server back online yet) |
| [12:41:42] | justinh: | I very much suspect that what we suspect is the case.. it just needs proof :) |
| [12:42:23] | justinh: | once proven, add the info about which mux freq you're tuned to (tzap) and put the output of dvbsnoop on the ticket :) |
| [12:42:48] | justinh: | nobody can doubt proof :) |
| [12:43:23] | justinh: | btw dvbsnoop is fun. if you're sad like me :D |
| [12:43:27] | mzb_d800: | k, fiddling now |
| [12:43:50] | jduggan: | Hrm |
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| [12:44:37] | justinh: | arggh still epg data for ITV after oct 24 |
| [12:45:30] | justinh: | and BBC3, BBC4 ... |
| [12:46:41] | mzb_d800: | err ... centre frequency reported by dvbsnoop is VHF |
| [12:46:56] | justinh: | mzb_d800: when you're tuned to UHF ? |
| [12:46:58] | mzb_d800: | but I'm tuned to a high-band UHF freq |
| [12:47:02] | mzb_d800: | yep |
| [12:47:03] | justinh: | bingo :) |
| [12:47:25] | justinh: | include that info on the ticket & that should be enough to go on |
| [12:47:46] | mzb_d800: | # dvbsnoop -n 1 -nph 0x10 | grep -i Cent[eE][Rr] |
| [12:47:46] | mzb_d800: | Center frequency: 0x01443fd0 (= 212500.000 kHz) |
| [12:48:10] | mzb_d800: | so command line option to prove currently tuned freq? |
| [12:48:26] | justinh: | erm... hang on |
| [12:48:33] | mzb_d800: | thx |
| [12:49:08] | justinh: | you have a choice I think... stop mythbackend & use tzap |
| [12:49:34] | justinh: | I thought the other choice would be femon but it doesn't report the frequency |
| [12:49:57] | mzb_d800: | hmm |
| [12:50:07] | mzb_d800: | k, I'll play. Thx |
| [12:50:12] | mzb_d800: | (capital T) |
| [12:51:24] | jduggan: | are there any dvb-s cards out there with multiple inputs, that work well? |
| [12:51:35] | jduggan: | i'll be wanting to record HD for what its worth |
| [12:53:02] | justinh: | I thought all the HD you can have was on one transponder |
| [12:53:19] | justinh: | all 1.1 channels of it |
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| [12:54:47] | justinh: | mzb_d800: I'll have a bit more dig & see if there are other tables that can be looked at |
| [12:54:51] | jduggan: | yea, its not just HD though |
| [12:55:04] | mzb_d800: | justinh: thanks |
| [12:55:36] | mzb_d800: | I'll add what you've suggested to the bug report (when I'm done playing) |
| [12:55:55] | mzb_d800: | and work on the next step (extra tables?) next ;) |
| [12:57:17] | jduggan: | on the subject, how is itv HD support going? (gbee? :P) |
| [12:58:18] | justinh: | hrm, I might've gone off on a tangent here. I'll see if that info in snooped.txt corresponds to what I have in dtv_multiplex |
| [12:59:25] | gbee: | could work once the ffmpeg merge happens, I've not tested it |
| [13:00:02] | justinh: | none of those numbers in descriptor tag 98 match up with muxes in my setup, so I'll assume they're frequencies that same mux is transmitted on elsewhere |
| [13:00:30] | mzb_d800: | justinh: addition to bug report didn't work as planned, but info is there if you'd like to recheck |
| [13:00:33] | justinh: | so, looks like a broadcaster snafu mzb_d800 |
| [13:00:59] | justinh: | technically they should tell the receiver what other frequencies to look on -I think that's what that part's about |
| [13:01:07] | justinh: | _think_ |
| [13:01:30] | mzb_d800: | I don't think so ... my understanding of the translators task is to re-transmit the TS without modification. |
| [13:01:36] | justinh: | yeah |
| [13:01:55] | mzb_d800: | so if that's the case, the frequencies of the PS's are not changed! |
| [13:02:11] | mzb_d800: | s/translators' |
| [13:02:19] | justinh: | but in cases where a big tx is repeated locally it'd be logical to expect the info on which frequencies the repeaters are on |
| [13:02:49] | mzb_d800: | given by the main transmitter? |
| [13:02:55] | justinh: | you know, like RDS radio stations do |
| [13:03:00] | mzb_d800: | that sounds like backwards logic |
| [13:03:11] | justinh: | they transmit the 'other frequencies we're on' alongside everything |
| [13:03:36] | mzb_d800: | nah ... hmm ... maybe .. not convinced |
| [13:03:40] | justinh: | so no, not backwards :) |
| [13:03:47] | mzb_d800: | but your suggestion is sound(ish) |
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| [13:04:12] | justinh: | well what other explanation would there be for the frequencies reported in my snooping.txt file not being entries in my dtv_multiplex table? |
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| [13:04:37] | justinh: | I could prove the point by researching frequencies of that mux throughout the uK ;) |
| [13:04:47] | justinh: | wtf, nothing better to do |
| [13:05:05] | mzb_d800: | in that what you're saying is that there should be a table somewhere (from one of the transmitters) that says what the "real" vs "translated" frequencies are. |
| [13:05:49] | justinh: | yeah, what I think the output of that dvbsnoop I ran is saying is exactly that.. well kinda |
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| [13:06:08] | mzb_d800: | but my point to YOU (and the devs) is ... how many translators do you have access to? |
| [13:06:19] | mzb_d800: | and how are translators handled? |
| [13:06:27] | mzb_d800: | (in general) |
| [13:06:37] | justinh: | I'm not aware of them being handled |
| [13:06:40] | mzb_d800: | it'd be nice to know WHAT the standard is |
| [13:06:54] | mzb_d800: | and how THAT differs in different countries |
| [13:07:17] | mzb_d800: | no translators in UK? :)) |
| [13:07:21] | justinh: | not yet |
| [13:07:27] | justinh: | I think this is what's in that table |
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| [13:07:36] | justinh: | the one I just snooped upon |
| [13:08:04] | mzb_d800: | pretty sure that's not the case (by some of the .au docs I've read comparing how the eu works vs .us) |
| [13:08:26] | mzb_d800: | (and stabbing both of them in the back at the same time;)) |
| [13:08:36] | justinh: | why else would mux A be giving that output? |
| [13:08:43] | mzb_d800: | (although kudos seems to be given to the eu approach) |
| [13:08:58] | justinh: | my backend is tuned to Mux A, and it's not reporting the freqs of other muxes in that list |
| [13:09:10] | mzb_d800: | you've lost me |
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| [13:10:29] | justinh: | right. see this ? http://www.pastebin.ca/1228341 |
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| [13:10:42] | mzb_d800: | and you've not been able to tell me if you (or other ppl in your country) have tested (or have access to) translators |
| [13:11:13] | justinh: | all that was reported while I was tuned to Mux A on 810166.067 kHz |
| [13:11:50] | justinh: | none of the frequencies listed in the pastebin are entries in my dtv_multiplex table – i.e. they aren't the OTHER muxes on my local TX |
| [13:12:02] | mzb_d800: | ok ... so I see a list of UHF frequencies ... that doesn't tell me much |
| [13:12:28] | justinh: | that is to say they are 'other' frequencies that same multiplex is available on |
| [13:13:04] | mzb_d800: | in my case ... a single (centre) frequency is used to transmit a number of channels (both SD, HD and possibly radio) [afaik] |
| [13:13:08] | justinh: | the table is describing which other frequencies the multiplex is broadcast on |
| [13:13:13] | mzb_d800: | ah |
| [13:13:21] | mzb_d800: | now I see your point |
| [13:13:25] | justinh: | :) |
| [13:13:26] | justinh: | PHEW |
| [13:13:52] | ** mzb_d800 needs caffeine ** | |
| [13:14:11] | mzb_d800: | hmm |
| [13:14:38] | mzb_d800: | so apart from dvbsnoop what other tools are available? |
| [13:14:42] | mzb_d800: | _or_ |
| [13:15:09] | mzb_d800: | what other methods of dvbsnoop invocation will tell us about the tables? |
| [13:16:35] | justinh: | the -nph 0x10 tells it to snoop on a particulart table |
| [13:16:46] | justinh: | tell it a different tble & it'll give different output |
| [13:16:46] | mzb_d800: | (just in case those tables are available via another method) |
| [13:16:58] | mzb_d800: | hmm |
| [13:17:05] | mzb_d800: | list of tables? |
| [13:17:10] | justinh: | see your dvb-t specs to find out which table numbers do what |
| [13:17:16] | mzb_d800: | lol |
| [13:17:20] | mzb_d800: | specs? |
| [13:17:24] | mzb_d800: | ;) |
| [13:17:34] | justinh: | I'm pretty sure that's the only one in town for frequency info though |
| [13:17:44] | mzb_d800: | too much beer under the bridge not to laugh at that one ;) |
| [13:18:05] | gbee: | iirc, the centre frequency should be the one that that transmitter is using, other frequencies are listed in the frequency_list_descriptor |
| [13:18:20] | mzb_d800: | brb: time to recycle some beer into the garden |
| [13:18:46] | justinh: | gbee: yeah but this translator doodah is just rebroadcasting one mux on a different frequency without changing any of the table info |
| [13:19:10] | justinh: | and AFAIK we never look on the 'other frequencies' for a mux |
| [13:19:41] | justinh: | it'll come to the UK & be a problem before too long too |
| [13:20:05] | justinh: | remodulating dvb-t being as expensive as it is I doubt they'll change the table info either |
| [13:20:18] | gbee: | justinh: it's been a couple of years since I worked on the scanning code, but back then we definately looked at the other frequencies |
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| [13:21:09] | justinh: | maybe it's not helping mzb_d800 that he can get both the 'wrong' mux & the right one at the same time |
| [13:21:14] | gbee: | it's a broadcaster problem as far as I'm concerned, but I'd need to discuss the current code with Daniel and Stuart to be sure |
| [13:21:39] | justinh: | yeah gbee but how many workarounds does myth use to get around local incongruities? ;) |
| [13:22:05] | justinh: | nobody's completely in-spec. that's how it looks |
| [13:22:18] | gbee: | UK is, so far anyway |
| [13:22:34] | justinh: | heh yeah cos we helped invent it |
| [13:23:00] | justinh: | cable companies do funny stuff with their tables, satellite providers are known to aswell |
| [13:23:24] | gbee: | fwiw I'm using the Nottingham repeater for Waltham |
| [13:24:06] | justinh: | so does snooping on the same table I dumped the output for show a different centre freq to the one you 'think' you're tuned to? |
| [13:24:23] | gbee: | often enough if you tell the broadcaster there is a problem it gets fixed, it's usually just a mistake |
| [13:25:19] | justinh: | thing is, I know what the deal is with a translator. they demodulate the signal & remodulate it without changing anything |
| [13:25:31] | gbee: | justinh: you are right, remembering incorrectly |
| [13:26:10] | gbee: | justinh: but the original broadcast should be carrying a table of all other used frequencies |
| [13:26:14] | justinh: | yep |
| [13:26:21] | justinh: | that's what I thought would be happening |
| [13:26:22] | gbee: | which is what the scanner uses |
| [13:26:48] | mzb_d800: | hang on .. should the translator list all the other translator frequencies? |
| [13:26:50] | justinh: | wonder what the problem is here then in mzb_d800's case |
| [13:26:54] | gbee: | it's the frequency_list_descriptor OR cell_list_descriptor |
| [13:27:17] | mzb_d800: | or is only the main transmitter's job to list the translators? |
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| [13:27:33] | justinh: | the translators are only a dummy relay of the main tx ;) |
| [13:27:40] | mzb_d800: | yep |
| [13:27:42] | justinh: | so whatever the main tx emits, the translators do too |
| [13:28:11] | justinh: | so if the main tx's tables say it's on 400Mhz the translator's tables would also say that |
| [13:28:27] | mzb_d800: | but in your case, your (main) transmitter lists the other frequencies (translators?) |
| [13:28:31] | justinh: | but – the frequency said translator broadcasts on SHOULD be in the list descriptor |
| [13:28:46] | mzb_d800: | in my case, the info I've got is only from the translator |
| [13:30:16] | mzb_d800: | either way, regardless of the listed frequencies (afaict) the scanner should be taking note of the SCANNED frequency rather than the one(s) listed in the TS |
| [13:30:27] | justinh: | so in the list of the output dvbsnoop churns out you should see the _actual_ frequency the translator is on |
| [13:30:48] | justinh: | if not, then it's a broadcaster problem |
| [13:31:00] | gbee: | mzb_d800: get on to your broadcaster and tell them about the problem |
| [13:31:49] | justinh: | mzb_d800: e.g. the main station is on 400mhz, but you tune into the translator on 900Mhz, 900Mhz should be in the output of that dvbsnoop command |
| [13:33:35] | mzb_d800: | if the only job of a translator is to rebroadcast the (main) transmitter on a different frequency, I can't see how that's a problem. |
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| [13:34:09] | justinh: | look at my snooping.txt file |
| [13:34:28] | mzb_d800: | and if every stb I've got (3 or 4) can handle it why is this so difficult for mythtv(-devs) to understand? |
| [13:34:33] | justinh: | there's a little list of frequencies in there which aren't the freq. currently tuned too |
| [13:35:12] | justinh: | it's not unusual for broadcasters to do out of spec crap which happens to just work with STBs |
| [13:35:14] | mzb_d800: | surely this is a simple issue of scanning/tuning logic? (regardless of the *rules* involved) |
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| [13:35:30] | justinh: | now this is turning into an argument about semantics |
| [13:36:00] | mzb_d800: | we all know that me telling my broadcaster they've got a problem is going to be files into /dev/2hard |
| [13:36:01] | justinh: | is the frequency your translator transmits on, in the output of that dvbsnoop command or not? |
| [13:36:11] | gbee: | mzb_d800: it's NOT standards compliant – we can't keep adding hacks because your broadcaster has made a mistake |
| [13:36:17] | gbee: | mzb_d800: BULLSHIT |
| [13:36:41] | gbee: | dozens of people have had similar issues corrected after a single email to their broadcasters tech department |
| [13:36:43] | justinh: | people in the US have found that broadcasters had inadvertently broken some tables & they got em fixed |
| [13:37:04] | justinh: | and the broadcasters had no idea cos nobody had reported it |
| [13:37:44] | justinh: | just answer the last question mzb_d800. if the translator's freq. is not listed there, complain to the broadcaster |
| [13:38:19] | gbee: | mzb_d800: where abouts are you? most deployments of DVB-T are government backed and a condition of that deployment is that they stick to the standards (to keep the market place free) |
| [13:38:47] | justinh: | gbee: Australia |
| [13:39:14] | mzb_d800: | so your combined opinion is that mythtv (devs) are going to ignore *current* situation in .au (let's for the moment assume that it's .au-wide) by blaming the "problem" on a non-standards-compliant broadcaster (all 5 of them), because your interpretation of THEIR interpretation is different? |
| [13:39:15] | justinh: | it was all nice & worky til he moved to an area which relies on a translator |
| [13:39:26] | mzb_d800: | why make this so hard/anal? |
| [13:39:34] | justinh: | mzb_d800: ffs you're going off the deep end for no reason |
| [13:39:34] | mzb_d800: | yep ;) |
| [13:39:51] | mzb_d800: | justinh: nah, I'm still cool |
| [13:40:04] | justinh: | and you haven't answeredthe question about whether the translator freq. is listed in the output of dvbsnoop |
| [13:40:32] | mzb_d800: | isn't that what I've pasted/posted ? |
| [13:40:50] | mzb_d800: | (ref bug report) |
| [13:41:12] | justinh: | duh I've not re-looked at the ticket sorry |
| [13:41:13] | gbee: | mzb_d800: you're the first person I've seen with this problem – it's not Australia wide, hell one of the devs is Australian |
| [13:41:19] | justinh: | !trout justinh |
| [13:41:19] | ** MythLogBot slaps justinh with a trout on behalf of justinh... ** | |
| [13:41:29] | gbee (gbee!n=stuartm@cpc3-derb9-0-0-cust581.leic.cable.ntl.com) has left #mythtv-users ("Gone") | |
| [13:41:34] | mzb_d800: | !trout mzb_d800 |
| [13:41:34] | ** MythLogBot slaps mzb_d800 with a trout on behalf of mzb_d800... ** | |
| [13:41:49] | ** mzb_d800 feels better already ** | |
| [13:42:28] | ** mzb_d800 licks his lips and starts thinking about crayfish ** | |
| [13:43:01] | justinh: | whoah your dvbsnoop output looks different to mine. like way different |
| [13:43:11] | mzb_d800: | yep |
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| [13:43:29] | justinh: | you filtered it |
| [13:43:35] | mzb_d800: | maybe I should do an attachment to make it look nicer ;) |
| [13:43:42] | mzb_d800: | err ... nuh |
| [13:43:57] | justinh: | no? |
| [13:44:34] | justinh: | so where's the frequency list descriptor stuff? |
| [13:44:41] | justinh: | if that's missing, no blimmin wonder you're having an issue |
| [13:45:27] | justinh: | try tuning to a different mux & see if the freq. list descriptor is present there |
| [13:46:19] | mzb_d800: | see (new) attachment |
| [13:47:02] | mzb_d800: | # dvbsnoop -n 1 -nph 0x10 > dvbsnoop.sctv |
| [13:48:15] | mzb_d800: | now ... don't forget that there's a possibility that I can add a VHF aerial to the equation tomorrow and MAYBE get a direct response from the main transmitter |
| [13:48:18] | mzb_d800: | however |
| [13:48:19] | revilootneg (revilootneg!n=oliver@pool-99-66-198-89.dbd-ipconnect.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [13:48:31] | lyricnz is now known as lyricnzzzzzzzzzz | |
| [13:49:05] | mzb_d800: | it would involve timely feedback (which I suspect would not happen within Dad's time-frame/attention-span) |
| [13:49:48] | mzb_d800: | ... assuming that we could overcome small issues like ghosting/etc ;) |
| [13:50:40] | justinh: | looks like your 'caster is missing the frequency list descriptor from the NIT |
| [13:50:59] | mzb_d800: | also keep in mind that I *really* hate being on this roof (nails popping out, occasional wind gusts + rain, etc) |
| [13:51:02] | justinh: | worth sending off an email to their engineering dept IMHO |
| [13:51:38] | mzb_d800: | ok .. I'll do it then (to all 5!) ... what info do I need to send? |
| [13:52:27] | justinh: | well, try tuning to another frequency & see if dvbsnoop gives you the frequency list descriptor part |
| [13:52:56] | mzb_d800: | and in the meantime I can expect to manually tune mythtv everytime something changes? (keeping in mind that our lease is ONLY 12 MONTHS! ffs! ;)))) |
| [13:53:14] | mzb_d800: | ok ... I'll try THE gvt freq |
| [13:53:28] | justinh: | they might just have to switch the tx off & then back on again :P |
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| [13:55:02] | justinh: | it's probably just the people who look after the tx for Southern Cross Television you have to pester |
| [13:55:22] | mzb_d800: | dvbsnoop.abc1 attached |
| [13:55:41] | justinh: | as for how to break the news to em... |
| [13:56:16] | justinh: | a brick, with a piece of A4 paper containing the words FREQUENCY DESCRIPTOR LIST! thrown into reception :P |
| [13:56:41] | justinh: | ffs none there either.. |
| [13:56:50] | justinh: | course that might just mean there's none |
| [13:57:04] | justinh: | aka no other frequencies it's broadcast on |
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| [13:57:43] | mzb_d800: | dvdsnoop.sbs (multicultural gvt mux) |
| [13:58:31] | psipsi: | The latest SVN has really hosed the blootube-wide theme. |
| [13:58:40] | justinh: | psipsi: no it hasn;t |
| [13:58:45] | justinh: | update your themes |
| [13:59:07] | psipsi: | I did. Do I need to manually delete everything first? |
| [13:59:10] | mzb_d800: | dvbsnoop.win |
| [13:59:20] | psipsi: | Something in mysql maybe? |
| [13:59:22] | justinh: | psipsi: what do you mean 'really hosed' ? |
| [13:59:53] | psipsi: | justinh: clock is on bottom. fonts are smaller and the whole menu no longer fits on the screen. etc... |
| [13:59:54] | justinh: | I updated all the themes in /themes to have menu-ui.xml files so they should at least work in the main menus |
| [14:00:01] | justinh: | ah. wontfix |
| [14:00:35] | justinh: | I warned people the themes in /themes would be going unsupported & nobody facking listened |
| [14:00:39] | psipsi: | no cycling scroll either... where you can go down at the bottom and get to the top most entry. |
| [14:00:53] | justinh: | psipsi: I fixed that |
| [14:00:55] | mzb_d800: | dvbsnoop.tdt |
| [14:01:03] | psipsi: | justinh: today? |
| [14:01:29] | justinh: | yesterday |
| [14:01:36] | psipsi: | ah. Ok. |
| [14:01:38] | psipsi: | thanks. |
| [14:01:43] | mzb_d800: | justinh: I'd need at least 5 bricks for that approach ;) ... starting to sound inefficient ;)) |
| [14:02:02] | justinh: | psipsi: as far as the rest is concerned.. can't make any promises |
| [14:02:27] | mzb_d800: | link to the bug report with a cover note might be enough ... if I can get the emails of competent techs |
| [14:02:35] | mzb_d800: | (that's another story) |
| [14:02:37] | psipsi: | justinh: so the extra themes have no maintainer now? |
| [14:02:43] | justinh: | me or bust |
| [14:02:47] | justinh: | nobody else cares |
| [14:02:49] | justinh: | and I care little |
| [14:02:53] | psipsi: | ouch! |
| [14:03:28] | mzb_d800: | justinh: is in (semi)retirement due to a lack of (mini!?!)love ;) |
| [14:04:10] | justinh: | so the clock moved.. can nobody edit xml ? |
| [14:04:21] | justinh: | so the font size changed.. can nobody edit xml ? |
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| [14:04:43] | mzb_d800: | (and I care even less because I'm using 4:3 SD and justinh rightly says I'm living in the 20th century;)) |
| [14:05:03] | justinh: | actually menufont is still 17 point, which it always was |
| [14:05:09] | mzb_d800: | fair enough? :) |
| [14:05:12] | hadees (hadees!n=hadees@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/hadees) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [14:06:02] | justinh: | and AFAIK the same number of menu items fit onscreen now as always had |
| [14:06:38] | jgarvey (jgarvey!n=jgarvey@cpe-098-026-069-229.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [14:06:45] | justinh: | besides me putting in menu-ui.xml was just a 'getya going' |
| [14:06:56] | justinh: | just so they wouldn't be completely broken |
| [14:07:47] | mzb_d800: | justinh: maybe implement "pay-per-press" next time ;) |
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| [14:07:57] | mzb_d800: | jk |
| [14:08:05] | mzb_d800: | (jic) |
| [14:08:31] | ** mzb_d800 nervously sips his beer ** | |
| [14:08:33] | justinh: | heh. I don't hate freedom that much |
| [14:08:38] | mzb_d800: | ;) |
| [14:09:15] | justinh: | and btw I recently said that I care enough to not let some of the themes in /themes rot away to nothing, but no promises |
| [14:09:22] | mzb_d800: | maybe just do one really well, rather than spread yourself so thin? |
| [14:09:28] | mzb_d800: | (what it sounds like) |
| [14:09:33] | justinh: | yeah that's my intent |
| [14:09:35] | psipsi: | Okie dokie... didn't know it was a sore spot. ;) |
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| [14:09:51] | hume: | hi..I have a question about the channel information, that I find in mythweb (same as in Channel editor in mythtv-setup, right? but better gui in mythweb): what do the different number/id-s connect to? chan-number? freq-id? xmltv -> xmltv, that's obvious. Are there any overview of this somewhere? |
| [14:09:54] | justinh: | psipsi: ffs you know how many themes I churned out? you maintain NINE themes |
| [14:09:57] | psipsi: | what theme do you like/suggest? |
| [14:10:30] | justinh: | I made a rod for my own back the minute those were checked in |
| [14:10:50] | mzb_d800: | psipsi: I think justinh just got too much flak about all the issues. It wasn't about the quality of the work (as such), but more the constant bullshit@! (afaict) |
| [14:11:06] | mzb_d800: | so one vs many sounds like a better idea |
| [14:11:20] | justinh: | if any of them are saved it'll likely be blootube-wide |
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| [14:11:39] | psipsi: | Ok. no offense. I would be fine using which ever one is maintained. |
| [14:11:55] | ** jduggan uses glass ** | |
| [14:11:56] | justinh: | and it's not against the law to help |
| [14:11:59] | jduggan: | its just pure sex |
| [14:12:03] | ** mzb_d800 votes for a theme that fits *everything* ;) ** | |
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| [14:12:34] | justinh: | jduggan: it got better when I went underground on it :P |
| [14:12:42] | jduggan: | =] |
| [14:12:49] | justinh: | it's only available as a secret tarball now, or ubuntu package |
| [14:13:18] | ** mzb_d800 wants justinh to scratch a few of his itches too ;) (as you said ... how hard can editing xml be?) ** | |
| [14:13:34] | mzb_d800: | secret? oooh? |
| [14:13:38] | justinh: | so I cut the menu down to 6 viewable items.. |
| [14:13:51] | justinh: | it overlaps the title icons otherwise |
| [14:14:06] | justinh: | I can easy move the clock back |
| [14:14:14] | justinh: | but then so could anyone else |
| [14:15:13] | mzb_d800: | justinh: sounds like a theme editor would be a more meaningful project (particularly with your experience + mythui) |
| [14:15:17] | justinh: | anyway it all looks a bit gash until I do something about the button spacing |
| [14:15:18] | ** mzb_d800 runs and hides ** | |
| [14:15:18] | psipsi: | I'm not looking to fight the theme every time I check out. I'm interested in working on other pieces... I'll use whatever. |
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| [14:15:42] | justinh: | yeah yeah. anything but the themes |
| [14:16:03] | justinh: | no wonder I can't be arsed |
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| [14:16:08] | mzb_d800: | psipsi: I use mythcenter/mythcentre? |
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| [14:16:33] | mzb_d800: | justinh: theme editor doesn't sound like a good idea? |
| [14:16:39] | justinh: | absolutely not |
| [14:16:54] | ** mzb_d800 pulls his head in ** | |
| [14:17:02] | justinh: | there are quite enough gash themes without Jonny GIMP coming along |
| [14:17:26] | mzb_d800: | yeah .. but none of them need to be supported! |
| [14:17:55] | mzb_d800: | if a theme editor assists in what *you* do ....? |
| [14:18:05] | justinh: | I know enough now not to need one |
| [14:18:21] | psipsi: | mzb_d800: Ok. I'll give mythcenter a try. |
| [14:18:34] | justinh: | yay one less fan of pooptoob |
| [14:18:44] | mzb_d800: | so why isn't it EASY to maintain >1 themes then? |
| [14:18:54] | ** psipsi still likes pooptoob better. ** | |
| [14:19:04] | mzb_d800: | surely an editor would make it easier? |
| [14:19:08] | justinh: | mzb_d800: because even with atheme editor it'd still be a PITA |
| [14:19:22] | mzb_d800: | not just for maintenance, but for new themes? |
| [14:19:39] | justinh: | a theme editor wouldn't help with changing swathes of xml syntax |
| [14:19:45] | psipsi: | yeah... SageTV has similar problems keeping themes up to date and they have an editor. |
| [14:19:49] | mzb_d800: | ok ... think of it as a set of scripts ( to start with) |
| [14:20:09] | justinh: | nah sod it. I'll stick to one or two. the rest can die in hell |
| [14:20:14] | mzb_d800: | one set to take images/etc and create a theme |
| [14:20:39] | mzb_d800: | another set to convert from one (major) version to another |
| [14:20:58] | justinh: | this worm is not for turning :) |
| [14:21:02] | mzb_d800: | can't that be seen as the first stage of creation of editing? |
| [14:21:04] | mzb_d800: | lol |
| [14:21:09] | mzb_d800: | ok .. |
| [14:21:12] | mzb_d800: | point taken |
| [14:21:18] | mzb_d800: | (love the phrase;) |
| [14:21:25] | mzb_d800: | done/finished |
| [14:22:31] | justinh: | so in the new menu-ui.xml the button area is 400 pixels high |
| [14:22:45] | ** mzb_d800 dreams of a single gui for TUNING (translators as well!) / theme editing / menu mods / addon download / .... ** | |
| [14:23:05] | justinh: | whereas before it was 650 px high |
| [14:23:07] | justinh: | kk |
| [14:23:27] | justinh: | psipsi: just for you, it'll be fixed in a couple of hours |
| [14:23:35] | ** mzb_d800 wanders off into the blue yonder dreaming of remotes and large screens ** | |
| [14:25:22] | ** mzb_d800 wonders what time his RF expert is going to arrive ** | |
| [14:25:51] | mzb_d800: | ahh! lost phone! |
| [14:26:47] | mzb_d800: | (woman had it last) |
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| [14:27:32] | psipsi: | justinh: Thanks! |
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| [14:27:55] | mzb_d800: | (ok only one of >5, but it's my favourite;) |
| [14:28:59] | justinh: | mzb_d800: why your interest in translating? thinking of an Oz .ts ? :-P |
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| [14:29:59] | ** mzb_d800 gets confused with abbreviation+humour post midnight + long night of alcohol ** | |
| [14:29:59] | justinh: | then again if it was easier to translate we could have 'fun' translations too |
| [14:30:14] | justinh: | australian translations? :) |
| [14:30:39] | mzb_d800: | s/damn/bugger !!! |
| [14:31:19] | justinh: | I mean OZ translations for mythtv :P |
| [14:31:29] | ** mzb_d800 hopes that justinh isn't at work while he's consuming mind-bending drugs ;) ** | |
| [14:31:51] | mzb_d800: | translations? |
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| [14:32:14] | mzb_d800: | sorry ... we speak UK engrish here ;) |
| [14:32:36] | mzb_d800: | (.tas.au do anyway ... can't speak for the "north" island) |
| [14:33:14] | mzb_d800: | EX, WHY, ZEE .... ARRRRGGGHHHH!!! |
| [14:33:35] | ** mzb_d800 spits out the americanisms ** | |
| [14:33:49] | mzb_d800: | (no offense!) |
| [14:34:32] | mzb_d800: | s/ZEE/ZED/ |
| [14:34:40] | mzb_d800: | *sigh* |
| [14:35:48] | mzb_d800: | justinh: so you want s/OK/ONYA ? |
| [14:36:09] | mzb_d800: | and s/CANCEL/NO-F'N-WAY ? |
| [14:36:21] | mzb_d800: | ;) |
| [14:38:45] | ** mzb_d800 makes an international phone call while justinh's boss gives him a hard time about using IRC during work hours ;) ** | |
| [14:39:25] | mzb_d800: | justinh: what's that guy's number again? ;) |
| [14:39:48] | justinh: | +44 898 676767 |
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| [14:45:57] | justinh: | psipsi: should be better now |
| [14:46:25] | justinh: | the menu buttons don't get centred vertically but that's cos there's no way to do it yet |
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| [14:49:56] | psipsi: | justinh: Great! I'll give it a shot. Thanks again. |
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| [14:59:52] | justinh: | psipsi: now I remember why I did that |
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| [15:00:04] | psipsi: | ? |
| [15:00:11] | justinh: | going to revert the change for the menu button list til there's code to centre the button list |
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| [15:01:01] | ** psipsi is standing by... ** | |
| [15:01:36] | justinh: | or maybe not... |
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| [15:03:07] | justinh: | just need to make sure the scroll arrows fit |
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| [15:06:44] | justinh: | psipsi: done |
| [15:06:56] | justinh: | now :) |
| [15:07:07] | psipsi: | justinh: ok... fetching... |
| [15:08:36] | justinh: | still need to work on mythuibuttonlist.cpp to put the button spacing & centreing back in |
| [15:08:37] | grantm (grantm!n=grant@68.142.138.4) has quit (Connection timed out) | |
| [15:08:46] | justinh: | if my feeble brain is up to it |
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| [15:11:32] | psipsi: | justinh: looks great now. |
| [15:11:43] | psipsi: | thanks |
| [15:13:33] | justinh: | looks great apart from all the sucky images :P |
| [15:14:01] | psipsi: | Is the playback thumbnails in the recordings list currently broken? |
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| [15:14:05] | justinh: | my dog can draw better watermarks than some of them :P |
| [15:14:11] | justinh: | psipsi: in trunk, yeah AFAIK |
| [15:14:16] | psipsi: | justinh: ;) |
| [15:14:58] | psipsi: | Ok. |
| [15:15:08] | GreyFoxx: | Thumbnails work for me in MythCenter-Wide |
| [15:15:18] | GreyFoxx: | the mini playback doesn't though |
| [15:15:39] | justinh: | I thought it was the mini playback wot was broked |
| [15:15:40] | psipsi: | Yep.. I can get thumbnails, just not the mini-playback |
| [15:15:52] | justinh: | pfffff.. terminology people ;) |
| [15:15:58] | psipsi: | I was not sure of the proper terminology |
| [15:16:11] | psipsi: | justinh: you beat me to the word of the day |
| [15:16:28] | justinh: | I turned off the preview/thumbnail display. see no point in it |
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| [15:17:05] | GreyFoxx: | I liked the mini playback window, but static screenshots are good enough |
| [15:17:26] | psipsi: | me too |
| [15:18:01] | justinh: | an instantly recognisable icon.. sure have that but not a still/video from the show |
| [15:19:42] | psipsi: | I like(d) it. I wish mythvideo had that too... maybe in gallery view for the one selected. |
| [15:20:04] | psipsi: | mythvideo is a bit of a mess right now. lots of work going on? |
| [15:20:24] | GreyFoxx: | psi: I use the covershots in the gallery for TV eps. It's kinda nifty |
| [15:21:24] | psipsi: | GreyFoxx: Covershots? I'm using a script from KnoppMyth to get thumbnails for my TV eps in mythvideo. It's better than nothing. |
| [15:22:15] | GreyFoxx: | http://www.phaze.org/mythtv/pics/gallery-covers.png |
| [15:22:20] | justinh: | what use are thumbnails from the tv shows? |
| [15:23:00] | GreyFoxx: | Justin: When searching for specific shows you have previously seen, but you don't know the title/episode number it can be very useful |
| [15:23:21] | justinh: | unless it's a very memorable scene.. |
| [15:23:40] | GreyFoxx: | No, pretty much all I need is a single frame from just about anyshow I've seen |
| [15:24:45] | justinh: | the 'watched' videos flag would help there :) |
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| [15:24:57] | GreyFoxx: | I've seen everything in my archive already :) |
| [15:25:14] | justinh: | so set the flag ;) |
| [15:25:15] | GreyFoxx: | So watched is assumed :) |
| [15:25:34] | GreyFoxx: | And those covers are thanks to thetvdb.com heh |
| [15:25:39] | justinh: | did sliders ever really finish? |
| [15:25:51] | GreyFoxx: | No, just trailed out at the end of Season 5 :/ |
| [15:25:57] | justinh: | I mean come to a conclusion.. it just seemed to be on forever |
| [15:26:41] | GreyFoxx: | Quinn, Wade, the Professor, and Quinns bro were all gone by season 5 |
| [15:27:45] | justinh: | so pretty mcuh everybody anybody ever gave a damn about character-wise :P |
| [15:27:57] | GreyFoxx: | Remi was there til the end, heh |
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| [15:33:45] | mzb_d800: | justinh: is that # text capable? |
| [15:33:54] | justinh: | mzb_d800: nah |
| [15:34:02] | mzb_d800: | bugger |
| [15:34:15] | justinh: | nor is it my boss' number :P |
| [15:34:33] | mzb_d800: | wouldn't cost me anything either way ;) |
| [15:35:00] | mzb_d800: | neither would a voice call ... but that's not the point ;) |
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| [15:35:27] | mzb_d800: | (text being less effort;) |
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| [15:36:22] | MrGandalf: | Ok, finally tested djmount with PlayOn.. seems the streams are mpegps and the audio is mp3. |
| [15:36:32] | mzb_d800: | ie: Pay Justin more money or he will blow up the next 10 computers he works on ... not sure if that would have the desired effect ;) |
| [15:37:06] | mzb_d800: | gnite all |
| [15:37:13] | justinh: | they don't need me to blow em up :D |
| [15:37:19] | mzb_d800: | heh |
| [15:37:25] | justinh: | gnight |
| [15:37:38] | ** justinh decides it's hometime ** | |
| [15:40:54] | psipsi: | GreyFoxx: do you that automated? or do you just copy into .covers? |
| [15:41:30] | ** psipsi is having a typing disfunction ** | |
| [15:41:34] | GreyFoxx: | psi: automated, and I have ascript to grab all the info for the show |
| [15:41:41] | GreyFoxx: | I'll be releasing the script soon |
| [15:41:47] | GreyFoxx: | just a few bits to finish |
| [15:41:49] | psipsi: | Ok. I'll be interested. |
| [15:41:57] | ** GreyFoxx heads out ** | |
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| [16:03:57] | Mr-Atomic: | Howdy! |
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| [16:06:43] | Mr-Atomic: | any 790g motherboard users here? |
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| [16:10:46] | iamlindoro_: | If you wait for someone to a) possess your exact hardware and b) volunteer without any info to help, you are likely in for a long wait |
| [16:11:02] | iamlindoro_: | which is to say, probably best just to ask whatever your question is |
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| [16:20:56] | gbee: | got a 690V |
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| [16:23:45] | iamlindoro_: | Guess he wasnt' that interested |
| [16:23:48] | iamlindoro_: | wasn't |
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| [16:45:49] | dustybin: | iamlindoro_: are you a democrat or republican? |
| [16:47:11] | iamlindoro_: | dustybin: I'm a Tory |
| [16:47:33] | dustybin: | :) |
| [16:48:27] | iamlindoro_: | Anyway, no, I am a democrat. |
| [16:48:34] | Led-Hed: | lol |
| [16:48:38] | iamlindoro_: | Which I guess makes me a whig |
| [16:49:09] | ** Led-Hed is neither this time but voting Republican ** | |
| [16:49:54] | andreax: | When you will vote over there? In 3 Weeks ? |
| [16:50:07] | iamlindoro_: | 18 days |
| [16:50:26] | andreax: | aye... just to know which day ive to switch on the tv... :) |
| [16:50:47] | iamlindoro_: | November 4th. |
| [16:51:28] | iamlindoro_: | But results will be more or less November 5th for you guys in the UK |
| [16:52:33] | andreax: | Im from germany. But it makes no difference in timezone i think. Obama woke me up three nights in a row now, with his voice... :) |
| [16:53:13] | iamlindoro_: | Better get used to that voice ;) |
| [16:56:07] | hume: | about the channels: I have now, after removing all channels and rescanning a few times, channels that I can watch and where xmltv-data is presetned in program guide. BUT: looking at them in the config tab or mythweb, I can see that there are doubles – how do I know which ones there to delete? |
| [16:56:14] | andreax: | Hm. Its not easy for me to have an objective opinion... |
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| [17:05:12] | justinh: | ahh duplicate channels, some you have scanned for & some which come without tuning information |
| [17:09:47] | hume: | how do they come without tuning information? |
| [17:10:28] | hume: | been there, as residue, from previous scan, or from the channels.conf that I imported to be able to scan? |
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| [17:16:44] | hume: | so how can I get rid of the doubles? How can I know which one is the one that I am viewing? is this obvious from the channel info in mythweb or in mythtv-setup – Channel editor? |
| [17:17:41] | wagnerrp: | just open up the channel editor, and delete the channels you dont want |
| [17:18:38] | hume: | wagnerrp, ok, i did that before – and was left with channels with data in mythweb, but none that I could watch... does that make sense? |
| [17:19:11] | wagnerrp: | i suppose the channel editor does not remove entries from the schedule table |
| [17:19:21] | wagnerrp: | try flushing it and rerunning mythfilldatabase |
| [17:19:30] | hume: | for instance now. there are doubles when looking at the program guide, but scanning through channels while watching gives me no doubles at all |
| [17:19:44] | hume: | flushing the schedule table? how? |
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| [17:20:28] | hume: | i mean, browsing through the channels while watching, not scanning....my english is deteriorating |
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| [17:21:59] | wagnerrp: | try deleting all data in program, programgenres, and programrating |
| [17:22:07] | wagnerrp: | i think those are the guide data |
| [17:22:20] | wagnerrp: | of course always back up your database before following my advice |
| [17:22:37] | hume: | you mean in the database directly, through for instance phpmyadmin? |
| [17:23:01] | wagnerrp: | never used phpmyadmin |
| [17:23:06] | hume: | ok....? |
| [17:23:10] | hume: | command line? |
| [17:23:11] | wagnerrp: | i would just do a 'delete from program;' |
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| [17:23:36] | hume: | in mysql manager then? |
| [17:23:52] | wagnerrp: | manager? no. in 'mysql' |
| [17:24:14] | hume: | yes...thats what I mean...ok |
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| [17:25:33] | hume: | and then... rescan for programs? in mythtv-setup? |
| [17:26:24] | wagnerrp: | run mythfilldatabase |
| [17:26:47] | hume: | ok |
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| [17:34:45] | hume: | while mythfilldatabase is running: what is the function of "frequency id" in the channel editor in mythweb? |
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| [17:35:48] | xris: | hume: only particularly useful for receiving OTA broadcasts |
| [17:35:58] | laga_: | or analog cable ;) |
| [17:36:03] | xris: | that, too |
| [17:36:07] | hume: | OTA? what is that? ok..analog I know |
| [17:36:17] | xris: | over the air |
| [17:36:38] | hume: | so no function at all for dvb? cause i have value there for some channels, not all |
| [17:38:40] | hume: | wagnerrp, didnt help with deleting data in those tables – doubles are still there |
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| [17:42:47] | xris: | hume: how'd you get the doubles? |
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| [17:44:01] | hume: | xris, welll.. I am not sure. Have deleted the channels through mythtv-setup and rescanned a few times, in an attempt in getting them right. OR they might have come there from the channels.conf that I utilised to be abel to do a channel scan |
| [17:44:33] | xris: | you could just delete them completely and rescan |
| [17:44:38] | r3z: | Can someone recommend a dual tuner HD capture card? |
| [17:44:42] | r3z: | UNder $120 would be ice |
| [17:44:45] | r3z: | nice even' |
| [17:45:01] | xris: | r3z: for the US or europe? |
| [17:45:05] | hume: | how can I delete them completely? i mean, i did it through the mythtv-setup before, and here they are |
| [17:47:12] | r3z: | US. |
| [17:47:19] | r3z: | NTSC\ATSC |
| [17:48:31] | xris: | actually.. easiest one to deal with is the hdhomerun from silicondust.com |
| [17:49:07] | xris: | r3z: I don't know of any good cheap ones like that. |
| [17:49:16] | xris: | but the hdhomerun works really well |
| [17:49:23] | hume: | xris, how do you mean I should delete the channels? |
| [17:50:04] | xris: | hume: personally I'd just wipe them from the database: TRUNCATE TABLE channel |
| [17:50:20] | hume: | ok |
| [17:50:26] | hume: | only that table? |
| [17:51:12] | xris: | hume: that's where the duplicate info would be. |
| [17:51:20] | hume: | ok |
| [17:53:32] | Led-Hed: | I read somewhere (late last night) that for firewire channel changing to work properly that I have to install some extra libs, but I cant find which libs it was referring to. Anyone here have experience setting up Myth for firewire capture with a SA 3250HD? |
| [17:53:57] | xris: | Led-Hed: depends on the distro. fedora packages should pull in everything you need |
| [17:54:16] | Led-Hed: | xris, Using Ubuntu(Mythbuntu) |
| [17:54:33] | xris: | that should have everything necessary in it |
| [17:54:41] | Led-Hed: | humm |
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| [17:55:14] | Led-Hed: | when I change channels it looks like it tunes to 3 different channels, but non of them are the channel I want. |
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| [17:55:41] | xris: | Led-Hed: do you know if myth supports channel change over firewire with the SA boxes? |
| [17:55:48] | Led-Hed: | something like, 02 -> 133 -> 48, when I told it to tune to 792 |
| [17:56:12] | Led-Hed: | xris, not sure, but in mythtv-setup it did list my STB |
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| [17:58:20] | xris: | yeah.. it can definitely record from there. |
| [17:58:29] | xris: | dunno if it can change channels, though |
| [17:58:42] | xris: | might check the firewire wiki page |
| [17:59:15] | r3z: | Led-Hed, how many frontends do you have working? |
| [17:59:19] | Led-Hed: | ya got a few channels recoreded last night, looks like my Cable Co isnt encrypting anything SD or HD, Recoreded part of SAW III off of MaxHD |
| [17:59:39] | Led-Hed: | r3z, 7 |
| [17:59:52] | Led-Hed: | but those are for my old SDTV setup. |
| [18:00:09] | Led-Hed: | need to upgrade the hardware on the frontends for HD |
| [18:00:50] | xris: | Led-Hed: that's slick that they're not encrypted |
| [18:01:08] | xris: | damn, that's a lot of frontends |
| [18:01:14] | ** xris has one measly all-in-one box. ** | |
| [18:01:19] | xris: | then again, I only really have one tv. |
| [18:01:25] | Led-Hed: | xris, ya it was a limited run. I didnt check every channel, but did record from SD, Local, and Premium channels. |
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| [18:08:33] | gbee: | 7 frontends? that your house, or some other setup? |
| [18:11:04] | justinh: | seven?! |
| [18:11:16] | justinh: | must.... resist... house .. size .. envy.... |
| [18:11:20] | justinh: | ;) |
| [18:11:24] | gbee: | two in the bathroom of course |
| [18:11:48] | gbee: | his and hers towels, sinks and TVs |
| [18:12:01] | justinh: | mythfrontend 6, hostname 'ensuite2' |
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| [18:15:55] | jduggan: | haha |
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| [18:25:24] | Gnea: | hrm, i just cannot get this HVR 1600 to work right... |
| [18:25:34] | Gnea: | 2008-10–16 13:20:03.042 NVR(/dev/video0) Error: Unknown audio codec |
| [18:25:40] | Gnea: | 2008-10–16 13:20:03.097 NVR(/dev/video0): Won't work with the streaming interface, falling back |
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| [18:40:25] | wagnerrp: | ive got 7 machines i would like to function as frontends |
| [18:40:35] | wagnerrp: | but as current, i have a machine actually plugged into a tv |
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| [18:43:43] | wagnerrp: | i dont know if running a frontend on a desktop could be considered it being a frontend |
| [18:44:30] | jamesd: | hope you aren't planning on doing hdtv, or those 7 machines should be very powerful.. and have nvidia video cards |
| [18:44:55] | wagnerrp: | my laptop couldnt handle HDTV, but any of the other machines could |
| [18:45:21] | justinh: | jamesd: or if today's news is to be believed.. ATI (!) |
| [18:45:36] | wagnerrp: | but theyre either desktops or laptops, that i would just want to be able to play livetv |
| [18:45:48] | iamlindoro_: | justinh: Still got my money on it being completely unusable by open source projects |
| [18:46:03] | justinh: | iamlindoro_: we'll have to wait & see :) |
| [18:46:10] | iamlindoro_: | justinh: But I *would* be very very happy to be wrong, and would buy a correspondingly flashy ATI card if warranted |
| [18:46:17] | justinh: | my optimism is limited |
| [18:47:27] | iamlindoro_: | ATM it seems the *only* people saying anything about it are the phoronix people-- don't know much about them to know if they're reliable |
| [18:48:03] | wagnerrp: | yeah, im looking around for an article on what youre speaking of... and finding nothing |
| [18:48:21] | justinh: | nothing on the /. wire yet I take it |
| [18:48:39] | wagnerrp: | ./, toms, anandtech, hardocp |
| [18:48:43] | justinh: | somebody mentioned it on the -dev list early today |
| [18:48:58] | iamlindoro_: | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjcwMA |
| [18:49:05] | iamlindoro_: | (I think that's the article in question) |
| [18:49:05] | inordkuo: | iamlindoro: i saw the link you put up about ffmpeg multithreading for paff/mbaff. is that for our hd-pvr's? |
| [18:49:10] | wagnerrp: | UVD? |
| [18:49:14] | justinh: | so I managed to find a phoronix page where they mentioned a possible leaked document.. then found the 'news' that it's actually in the driver |
| [18:49:19] | iamlindoro_: | inordkuo: It would help, if it were in actual ffmpeg, which it is not. |
| [18:49:23] | justinh: | universal video decoding |
| [18:49:48] | justinh: | wagnerrp: i.e. GPU video acceleration.. native stuff |
| [18:50:02] | gbee: | jamesd: why Nvidia? seriously? |
| [18:50:36] | gbee: | iamlindoro_: phoronix guys are reliable |
| [18:50:46] | wagnerrp: | similarly, hd mpeg2 is not very intensive, and intel chips work just as well |
| [18:51:01] | justinh: | gbee: there's years of disappointment to shift now. it'll take time |
| [18:51:04] | inordkuo: | iamlindoro: but does that mean some time in the near future there might be a glimmer of hope for for my 2.0ghz dual cores? |
| [18:51:11] | gbee: | installed 8.10 earlier, working well :) |
| [18:51:11] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: Ah, good! I would love to hold out hope that it will be community-accessible... but previous experience is tempering that |
| [18:51:23] | iamlindoro_: | inordkuo: Depends on the scope of "future" |
| [18:51:24] | gbee: | justinh: yeah and then there is just FUD |
| [18:51:34] | justinh: | I'm sure we'd all love the news to be true. everybody |
| [18:51:47] | iamlindoro_: | inordkuo: If you mean next month or two, then no, unlikely... if you mean a year or two, then yeah, maybe |
| [18:51:48] | wagnerrp: | a 2GHz dual core should handle anything short of the highest bitrate BR, and an HDPVR |
| [18:51:50] | gbee: | inordkuo: what's wrong with your 2.0Ghz dual cores? |
| [18:51:57] | wagnerrp: | well, core2 anyway |
| [18:52:00] | iamlindoro_: | I think this is in the context of HD-PVR |
| [18:52:09] | gbee: | and Athlon x2 |
| [18:52:20] | iamlindoro_: | Where a C2D 2.0 will not cut it |
| [18:52:35] | inordkuo: | yep amd x2 and yes i'm running an hd-pvr at 6–7.2 bitrate |
| [18:52:42] | inordkuo: | so that my cpu can keep up |
| [18:53:03] | justinh: | I've never said nvidia are perfect either, but historically.... |
| [18:53:10] | wagnerrp: | that sounds about right |
| [18:53:19] | wagnerrp: | thats around the limit of my 2GHz single cor |
| [18:53:26] | gbee: | my Athlon x2 2.0Ghz can handle high bitrate AVC – pretty much the highest bitrate stuff that most people have seen broadcast – BBC |
| [18:53:50] | gbee: | and that's with an ATI onboard GPU too |
| [18:54:07] | wagnerrp: | well as long as you get xv working, thats all that matters |
| [18:54:22] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: The problem with the HD-PVR output is the single-slicedness |
| [18:54:36] | iamlindoro_: | so you max out a single core and it starts choking |
| [18:55:06] | inordkuo: | it's good news in any case. i can live with 6–7.2 for a while. it's much better than standard def. |
| [18:55:27] | iamlindoro_: | Who knows, maybe come christmas we'll all be hoping for ATI cards under the tree and it'll be a moot point |
| [18:55:45] | gbee: | iamlindoro_: oh yeah I acknowledge that, but there is too much confusion around about requiring a 2.5Ghz Intel processor and Nvidia graphics, neither of which are necesarily true |
| [18:56:37] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: Yeah, the real problem is lack of specificity in both the questions *and* answers |
| [18:56:48] | iamlindoro_: | gbee: although the hard-and-fast answers tend to irritate me more |
| [18:57:00] | iamlindoro_: | ie "A C2D 2.4 Ghz is enough for 1080p." |
| [18:57:10] | iamlindoro_: | 1080p what? At what bitrate? Using what encoding options??? |
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| [19:04:35] | clev: | 1080 in xvid or 1080 in 264? :P |
| [19:05:57] | wagnerrp: | not many people use ASP for HD |
| [19:08:31] | laga_: | the warez doods do |
| [19:09:09] | clev: | though i havent see much 1080 in xvid |
| [19:09:38] | wagnerrp: | the clueless warez doodz do |
| [19:10:53] | clev: | then ive been using the smart doodz |
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| [19:14:03] | gbee: | there are smart warez guys? |
| [19:14:22] | clev: | ive seen some horid encodes before |
| [19:14:36] | clev: | but most of them look so perfect you would think it was a dvd rip |
| [19:15:29] | laga_: | yeah. 1080{i,p} that looks like a DVD rip |
| [19:15:32] | laga_: | awesome |
| [19:15:40] | clev: | lower res stuff |
| [19:15:43] | clev: | captured from tv |
| [19:15:50] | clev: | i assume its a digital feed |
| [19:15:59] | ** gbee ponders whether "smart warez" could be considered an oxymoron ** | |
| [19:16:00] | wagnerrp: | if its a digital feed, it may as well be a dvd rip |
| [19:16:05] | clev: | yep |
| [19:16:11] | clev: | the problem is when you reencode it |
| [19:16:30] | clev: | one group called 'horibble raws' is full of mpeg artifacts and the audio is crappy |
| [19:16:42] | clev: | they give exactly what they promised :P |
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| [19:17:03] | laga_: | didn't know you were a warez whore ;) |
| [19:17:27] | clev: | and ive tried to encode a dvd rip myself before, it was nothing but mpeg artifacts in high motion |
| [19:17:30] | wagnerrp: | well he cant be much of one, with all of 1TB between his various drives |
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| [19:18:55] | wagnerrp: | anyway, its not that difficult to make a nice dvdrip |
| [19:19:08] | wagnerrp: | what codec/bitrate were you using? |
| [19:19:32] | clev: | defaults for mencoder and i forget the exact flags |
| [19:20:00] | ** gbee just uses ISOs ** | |
| [19:20:07] | clev: | it was an iso rip of a dvd:P |
| [19:20:19] | clev: | but 4gig was too hefty to keep on the hdd |
| [19:20:30] | laga_: | boohoo |
| [19:20:54] | clev: | ive got more space now so 4gig isnt as much of a problem |
| [19:20:56] | ** iamlindoro_ punches kerberos in the face ** | |
| [19:21:17] | iamlindoro_: | With all the leaps forward in linux usability, someone ought to do something about that |
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| [19:24:22] | gbee: | don't think I've ever had to deal with kerberos directly |
| [19:25:45] | clev: | i dont even remember what it is! |
| [19:27:41] | gbee: | it's old as the hills |
| [19:30:43] | kormoc: | and as about easy to move |
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| [19:30:54] | gbee: | heh |
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| [19:31:28] | Lynet: | Didn't MS emmbraceextend kernberos for their Win2K+ AD authentication mechanism? |
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| [19:34:59] | kormoc: | aye |
| [19:39:47] | harzi: | somebody knows a good settop-box that could be upgraded to an mythtv-frontend? |
| [19:40:07] | jblack: | They made a simple howto for the digital conversion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTSS8E7bKXg Your grandma is in it. |
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| [19:45:10] | wagnerrp: | i somehow doubt its my grandma |
| [19:45:21] | wagnerrp: | she still thinks she bought a VD player |
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| [20:12:53] | sphery: | iamlindoro_: kerberos is my friend (both the 3-headed dog and the auth server :) |
| [20:13:03] | sphery: | I may have to punch you back |
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| [20:37:17] | iamlindoro_: | sphery: It's okay, finally got it where I want it, kerberos and I can be friends again |
| [20:37:58] | wagnerrp: | ive been meaning to get kerberos set up |
| [20:38:10] | wagnerrp: | ive got a server running, complete with a couple users defined |
| [20:38:20] | clev: | gnome-keyring-daemon works fine for what im doing |
| [20:38:27] | wagnerrp: | just havent done anything further, getting it interfaced with any programs to actually use it |
| [20:41:21] | sphery: | pretty easy with PAM--er, well, as easy as PAM can be, at least |
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| [21:28:55] | hachi: | okay, mythtv-setup keeps crashing on me when I try to scan for ATSC channels |
| [21:28:59] | hachi: | what options do I have? |
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| [21:33:12] | hachi: | does the Channel frequency table... of which I have set to us-cable.. have any bearing on ATSC inputs? |
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| [21:42:02] | Anduin: | hachi: That is used to find what channel 7 is, for ATSC when you scan you select the range and modulation |
| [21:42:24] | Anduin: | (channel 7 just being an example, converts a number to a frequency) |
| [21:42:51] | laga_: | gbee: you complained about a deinterlacer producing "smearing" once with cartoons. what do you use? |
| [21:45:06] | hachi: | when I hit ATSC channel 92 or so, mythtv-setup crashes... every time |
| [21:45:18] | hachi: | mythtv-setup: ../../src/xcb_lock.c:33: _XCBUnlockDisplay: Assertion `xcb_get_request_sent(dpy->xcb->connection) == dpy->request' failed. |
| [21:45:29] | Anduin: | hachi: I also don't remember if it was in the release, but some version of it needed to have the cpu affinity set |
| [21:45:57] | hachi: | oh, crap... I have HT on, I'll turn that off |
| [21:46:41] | Anduin: | hachi: You don't need to turn it off, just launch with taskset |
| [21:49:37] | hachi: | I just launched with taskset, the graphics are all corrupted now |
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| [21:51:36] | Anduin: | hachi: It shouldn't have changes anything related to that, you just did 'taskset -c 0 mythtv-setup'? |
| [21:53:01] | hachi: | I set a mask of 0x0000000001 or whatever |
| [21:53:04] | hachi: | from the manpage |
| [21:53:18] | hachi: | I already disabled HT now |
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| [21:55:53] | christer: | |
| [21:58:31] | Anduin: | christer: When did you last pull from trunk? |
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| [21:58:50] | christer: | version 18735 |
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| [22:00:46] | Anduin: | christer: Yeah I meant the version before that, the problem should just be it finding an old header. |
| [22:01:45] | christer: | before that i used trunk version 18702 |
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| [22:05:01] | christer: | Anduin: sorry my mistake, but that line error is 1258 not 1260 |
| [22:06:12] | Anduin: | christer: Yeah, I was just about to say your line numbers are off, have you done a svn diff on bufferedsocketdevice.h (the member really is there) |
| [22:07:41] | hachi: | Anduin: somehow that has made it stop scanning at channel 82, and doesn't crash anymore |
| [22:08:03] | hachi: | why would a cpu race cause mythtv to scan more channels than there is there? |
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| [22:09:06] | christer: | Anduin: thx. no, but i'll have a look. although it seems bufferedsocketdevice.h hasn't changed in 10 months since rev 15120 |
| [22:09:10] | Anduin: | hachi: No good answer, well other than that it was broken |
| [22:10:08] | hachi: | okay, thanks for that |
| [22:10:31] | gbee: | laga_: I did? |
| [22:10:47] | gbee: | don't remember that |
| [22:10:57] | laga_: | never mind then ;) |
| [22:11:14] | gbee: | only animation I record would be the odd episode of Family Guy/American Dad |
| [22:11:19] | Anduin: | christer: Yeah, I initially skipped over that you were doing -fixes (why I continued to call it trunk) |
| [22:11:21] | laga_: | same here |
| [22:11:23] | laga_: | and simpsons ;) |
| [22:12:07] | gbee: | Simpsons over here are all repeats |
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| [22:18:32] | gbee: | laga_: I'm using linear blend right now, maybe that was the fix |
| [22:19:04] | gbee: | animation tends to show up the need for deinterlacing more than normal programming |
| [22:19:26] | laga_ is now known as laga | |
| [22:19:46] | christer: | Anduin: I can't seem to find a problem. I'll try to pull latest rev from trunk and see if that works better. thx. |
| [22:22:55] | Anduin: | christer: if that doesn't work (you seem to be running the latest from -fixes) I'd modify the generated Makefile, change to to dump out the precompier output and see what the problem is. |
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| [23:25:21] | clev: | damnit |
| [23:25:23] | clev: | i did it again! |
| [23:25:45] | clev: | the mythtv remote wasnt responding so i began tracing the wires to make shure everything was working |
| [23:25:57] | clev: | the tv was on a normal live channel |
| [23:26:02] | clev: | wasnt using mythtv |
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