Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, September 23rd, 2008, 00:04 UTC

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ultra:

got everything but sound

[00:17:33]

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c3rb3rus5:

does anyone know how to get a firewire stb sommunicating with mythbuntu again?

[00:22:23]

c3rb3rus5:

it was working but now it wont prime

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c3rb3rus5:

stopped a month or 2 ago, just have not had the time to troubleshoot

[00:24:22]

sloof3:

Could someone recommend a PCI-Express ATSC/NTSC tuner that works without too much trouble with MythTV? Bonus if it's a dual tuner. I wanted to use the HVR-2250 but the NTSC tuner doesn't appear to work according to the wiki.

[00:26:03]

ultra:

i get sound from ubuntu but no sound in mythtv

[00:26:18]

ultra:

i went to the settings and manually selected analog since that's what i'm using for now

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[00:33:12]

ultra:

does anybody know how to get sound working when it works properly in ubuntu?

[00:33:28]

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[00:33:30]

ultra:

i'm reading documentation but i don't think i find anything that applies to me

[00:33:45]

c3rb3rus5:

so it works fine in ubuntu...

[00:34:04]

c3rb3rus5:

do you mean that its not working in myth?

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ultra:

yeah, no sound from live tv

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c3rb3rus5:

what kind of card are you using?

[00:34:43]

c3rb3rus5:

it could be a few things

[00:35:01]

ultra:

onboard nvidia

[00:35:05]

ultra:

msi media live

[00:35:24]

c3rb3rus5:

i dont have a capture card set up but i seem to remember you could pull sound over the pci bus or by looping a cable form the cap card out to the sound card in

[00:35:51]

ultra:

it's networked... hdhomerun

[00:35:57]

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c3rb3rus5:

i have no idea then :(

[00:36:14]

ultra:

no problem

[00:36:19]

c3rb3rus5:

can youi play media files through myth?

[00:36:47]

ultra:

havne't tried yet

[00:37:09]

ultra:

i'll pop in a dvd

[00:38:14]

ultra:

i must have to set something up with that

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ultra:

ubuntu codec issue

[00:45:31]

c3rb3rus5:

th dvd played fine?

[00:45:33]

** RyeBrye just placed an order at newegg for the pieces for his next backend / frontend HD beast **

[00:45:40]

ultra:

no, and it didn't play in ubuntu either

[00:45:50]

ultra:

i just installed the codec tho

[00:46:09]

c3rb3rus5:

you have to install 3rd party codecs to play dvds

[00:46:16]

ultra:

yeah it found one

[00:46:21]

c3rb3rus5:

hollywood dvds at least

[00:46:41]

ultra:

apparently the rule is get it working in ubuntu and THEN mythtv

[00:46:48]

ultra:

er but it's still not reading :/

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[00:56:30]

HaSH:

hello all.i have a pvr-150 and a stb from comcast...its all working fine and thats great..but i was just wonder if i would get better quality from the stb to the card if i used svideo or w/e. i currently have a normal cable hooking my pvr-150 upto the cable box.

[00:57:07]

Dagmar:

Heroes in three minutes.

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wagnerrp:

seems my cable provider saw fit to allow me the TVG channel over QAM

[00:58:02]

HaSH:

by normal cable i mean the coaxial(normal cable cord??)

[00:58:08]

wagnerrp:

because i just cant get enough of my horse racing

[00:58:23]

iamlindoro:

HaSH, anything but RF would be better

[00:58:29]

iamlindoro:

take your pick

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[00:58:36]

HaSH:

iamlindoro, rf is?....

[00:58:43]

iamlindoro:

As what you have now is the lowest quality possible

[00:58:48]

wagnerrp:

rf is standard cable line

[00:58:49]

iamlindoro:

rf = coaxial output of a STB

[00:58:53]

HaSH:

:-o ok

[00:59:02]

HaSH:

thanks. i just wasnt sure what was the best.

[00:59:07]

wagnerrp:

svideo is the best

[00:59:08]

iamlindoro:

S-video

[00:59:17]

wagnerrp:

then composite (RCA), then rf

[00:59:21]

HaSH:

im prety sure the pvr-150 has s-video

[00:59:28]

iamlindoro:

Yes, it does.

[00:59:53]

HaSH:

i wonder if i have a s-video cable laying around.....

[01:07:30]

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[01:07:41]

mryanbrown:

anyone know how to setup firewire capture?

[01:08:44]

c3rb3rus5:

in .21 its almost automatic

[01:09:22]

mryanbrown:

i cant get it to work with my cablebox

[01:09:28]

mryanbrown:

do i setup oint to point or broadcast

[01:09:30]

c3rb3rus5:

what box you have

[01:09:48]

mryanbrown:

sa 8300 hdc

[01:09:56]

mryanbrown:

i tried generic and 4250hdc

[01:10:00]

c3rb3rus5:

you have to test that out first

[01:10:08]

c3rb3rus5:

hold on

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c3rb3rus5:

this worked for me: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Firewire

[01:11:08]

Shadow__X:

also not all channels will work

[01:11:26]

Shadow__X:

c3rb3rus5, you might have selected the wrong form

[01:11:31]

Shadow__X:

what box do you have

[01:11:31]

c3rb3rus5:

i should note that when it works, its great

[01:11:38]

c3rb3rus5:

sa4250hd

[01:11:44]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[01:11:56]

Shadow__X:

i guess i shouldnt of asked i dont know what that is

[01:12:01]

c3rb3rus5:

haha

[01:12:17]

c3rb3rus5:

scientific atlanta

[01:12:45]

c3rb3rus5:

seems that most docs / dev seem to be geared toward the moto ones

[01:13:23]

mryanbrown:

ouldnt even get it running in windows

[01:13:28]

mryanbrown:

my fault for having the least common box

[01:14:42]

c3rb3rus5:

i would think that its usually the cable co's fault, no?

[01:15:22]

Shadow__X:

yeah

[01:15:31]

Shadow__X:

could also be the box

[01:15:55]

HaSH:

is there a big difference in s-video cables? i see ones for over 100$ and some for around 20$

[01:15:56]

c3rb3rus5:

are these things usually that fragile> i mean i had this owrking for months

[01:15:58]

mryanbrown:

firewire is enabled on it

[01:16:04]

mryanbrown:

it should perform identical to the 4250hdc

[01:16:24]

HaSH:

would it be worth it for the more expensive one? or is it like a hdmi cable....where there all the same.

[01:16:36]

mryanbrown:

its s-video

[01:16:39]

mryanbrown:

it doesnt matter

[01:16:48]

mryanbrown:

but lol @ someone else paying $100 for svideo

[01:17:11]

wagnerrp:

im happy with the ones ive gotten for free with video cards

[01:17:27]

c3rb3rus5:

http://www.monoprice.com

[01:17:27]

wagnerrp:

and a $20 svideo cable is still excessive

[01:17:34]

c3rb3rus5:

best cables place

[01:17:39]

mryanbrown:

frys electronics sells generic for $8

[01:17:41]

mryanbrown:

its worth it

[01:17:58]

HaSH:

ah

[01:17:59]

HaSH:

ok

[01:18:07]

HaSH:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?p . . . tPage=family

[01:18:13]

HaSH:

114.99$

[01:18:14]

HaSH:

lol

[01:18:19]

mryanbrown:

rofl

[01:18:21]

mryanbrown:

gg radioshack

[01:18:26]

mryanbrown:

BUT ITS GOLD PLATEDS

[01:18:30]

HaSH:

z0mg

[01:18:30]

c3rb3rus5:

monster calbes are ridiculously overpriced

[01:18:32]

c3rb3rus5:

always

[01:18:47]

mryanbrown:

theres only one good product monster makes

[01:18:57]

mryanbrown:

thats the surge protectors

[01:19:01]

HaSH:

hmm

[01:19:02]

mryanbrown:

which eliminate rf n shit

[01:19:15]

HaSH:

i cant seem to find a s-video cable around my house :(

[01:19:20]

HaSH:

i know there has to one somewhere

[01:19:25]

wagnerrp:

so its not a surge protector... it just also protects against surges

[01:19:28]

mchou:

mryanbrown: how do you know the power surge thing is good?

[01:19:45]

mryanbrown:

i used to work at radioshack

[01:19:47]

c3rb3rus5:

i give you the equivalent: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp . . . amp;format=2

[01:19:50]

mryanbrown:

they had this monster dr power tool

[01:19:54]

mryanbrown:

you could hook to surge protectors

[01:20:01]

mryanbrown:

and it tuned in audio from the power cable

[01:20:48]

c3rb3rus5:

audio from the power line?

[01:20:50]

c3rb3rus5:

nice

[01:20:52]

mryanbrown:

yea

[01:20:56]

mryanbrown:

all the rf in it

[01:22:05]

mryanbrown:

speaking of cables and rf

[01:22:08]

mryanbrown:

why wont my cablebox work :(

[01:22:27]

c3rb3rus5:

workin on fixing mine now

[01:22:38]

c3rb3rus5:

its possible the channels are encrypted by you

[01:22:52]

c3rb3rus5:

mine is flaky, and i know the channels are in the clear

[01:23:03]

c3rb3rus5:

it works for months at a time, then just deides to stop

[01:23:18]

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[01:23:29]

mryanbrown:

i know which are clear

[01:23:32]

mryanbrown:

i work for the cableco

[01:23:37]

mryanbrown:

its just getting it recognized in mythtv

[01:23:43]

c3rb3rus5:

o

[01:24:45]

c3rb3rus5:

do you have .21? it should pick up the guid of the box in there, etc

[01:24:56]

c3rb3rus5:

and really its just setting the right model i guess

[01:24:59]

mryanbrown:

lemme check

[01:25:03]

c3rb3rus5:

i never had a problem in .21 till now

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mryanbrown:

0.21.0+fixes16838

[01:27:15]

c3rb3rus5:

wish i could be more of a help :-/

[01:27:45]

mryanbrown:

its a niche market

[01:28:04]

c3rb3rus5:

indeed

[01:28:26]

mryanbrown:

hell just getting mythtv running in ubuntu isnt an install/run process

[01:28:28]

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c3rb3rus5:

heh

[01:28:36]

c3rb3rus5:

i know

[01:28:44]

c3rb3rus5:

mythbuntu works really well though

[01:28:47]

c3rb3rus5:

its come a long way

[01:28:49]

mryanbrown:

yea

[01:28:57]

mryanbrown:

idk why the hell it requires thunar though

[01:28:59]

mryanbrown:

which i love

[01:29:20]

c3rb3rus5:

no idea

[01:30:08]

mryanbrown:

mryanbrown@ubuntu:~$ mythprime -v

[01:30:08]

mryanbrown:

mythprime .55b beta

[01:30:08]

mryanbrown:

Checking for available firewire ports:

[01:30:08]

mryanbrown:

Acquiring firewire handle... FAILED!

[01:30:28]

mryanbrown:

i wonder if its because of what im using for firewire

[01:30:32]

mryanbrown:

my audigy 2

[01:30:37]

c3rb3rus5:

hmm

[01:30:37]

mryanbrown:

maybe my onboard will work

[01:30:41]

c3rb3rus5:

yea

[01:30:46]

c3rb3rus5:

if its not seeing anything

[01:31:13]

mryanbrown:

how do i check for it

[01:32:27]

mryanbrown:

oh yeah

[01:32:32]

mryanbrown:

i also didnt specify a node or port

[01:32:44]

c3rb3rus5:

with .21 yuou dont need to

[01:32:48]

mryanbrown:

have you read this? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Firewire

[01:32:52]

mryanbrown:

what im reading now

[01:32:55]

c3rb3rus5:

the new mythprime does that automatically

[01:32:58]

c3rb3rus5:

yea

[01:33:08]

c3rb3rus5:

before .21 it was much more complicated

[01:33:57]

c3rb3rus5:

had to modify code, run plugreport, test, modify some more code

[01:34:08]

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[01:34:33]

ThatOtherGuy:

Hey, question – I have an entry on my 'upcoming recordings' that won't remove itself when I press delete.

[01:34:40]

ThatOtherGuy:

How the heck does one get rid of that?

[01:34:46]

mryanbrown:

how do i check for whats running thats firewire

[01:36:10]

c3rb3rus5:

not sure

[01:36:54]

c3rb3rus5:

lsmod will tell you what modules are running / loaded

[01:38:05]

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[01:38:33]

mryanbrown:

mryanbrown@ubuntu:~$ lsmod | grep 1394

[01:38:34]

mryanbrown:

raw1394 29144 0

[01:38:34]

mryanbrown:

dv1394 20536 0

[01:38:34]

mryanbrown:

ohci1394 33584 1 dv1394

[01:38:34]

mryanbrown:

ieee1394 93752 4 sbp2,raw1394,dv1394,ohci1394

[01:39:17]

c3rb3rus5:

you can tell if there were errors on starup with dmesg

[01:39:51]

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[01:44:20]

mryanbrown:

-_-

[01:44:23]

mryanbrown:

seriously lol

[01:44:27]

mryanbrown:

cant find out how to list devices

[01:45:17]

c3rb3rus5:

wish i knew :(

[01:46:14]

HaSH:

does anyone here use a pvr-150 with s-video? all i do is hook up my cable box to the pvr-150 with s-video...and thats it?

[01:46:28]

HaSH:

or is there stuff i need to do? will it show up as /dev/video0?

[01:46:37]

fryfrog_:

HaSH: svideo for video and a pair of rca cables for audio

[01:46:38]

HaSH:

or will i have to reconfigure mythtv and stuff

[01:46:47]

Dagmar:

You'll need to read the wiki

[01:46:50]

fryfrog_:

you'll have to do a little more than that

[01:46:53]

mryanbrown:

[ 43.703548] gameport: EMU10K1 is pci0000:02:0b.1/gameport0, io 0xd200, speed 59659kHz

[01:46:53]

mryanbrown:

[ 44.161779] NOTE: The dv1394 driver is unsupported and may be removed in a future Linux release. Use raw1394 instead.

[01:46:53]

mryanbrown:

[ 44.184578] ieee1394: raw1394: /dev/raw1394 device initialized

[01:47:05]

fryfrog_:

basically boils down to changing the channels on the STB some how and telling myth how to do it.

[01:47:06]

HaSH:

hmmm. on my pvr-150...i only see one yellow rca connector on the card.

[01:47:18]

HaSH:

fryfrog_, i have my blaster all set up.

[01:47:30]

fryfrog_:

HaSH: is the audio input a little head phones plug maybe?

[01:47:35]

fryfrog_:

think it was on my PVR250

[01:47:37]

HaSH:

fryfrog_, im currently using a coaxial cable going from stb to the card

[01:47:39]

fryfrog_ is now known as fryfrog

[01:47:50]

fryfrog:

HaSH: ah, if that setup is working

[01:48:01]

HaSH:

fryfrog, indeed there is a headphone looking jack

[01:48:06]

fryfrog:

all you'll need to do is migrate your "lineup" from the "Tuner" input on the 150 to the svideo input

[01:48:18]

HaSH:

fryfrog, i just wanna get better quality..was told s-video is the best way to go

[01:48:28]

fryfrog:

yeah, should be much better :)

[01:48:34]

fryfrog:

assuming the STB outputs good video

[01:48:44]

HaSH:

so s-video only is video......now how do i get sound?.

[01:48:53]

fryfrog:

like i said

[01:48:59]

wagnerrp:

use the audio inputs

[01:49:02]

fryfrog:

RCA (red / white) to the pvr150

[01:49:07]

wagnerrp:

standard will have a 1/8" input

[01:49:10]

HaSH:

fryfrog, brand new stb from comcast(scientific atlanta)

[01:49:14]

fryfrog:

sounds like you need a headphones jack -> rca type thing

[01:49:20]

wagnerrp:

MCE will have a pair of RCA inputs

[01:49:31]

HaSH:

fryfrog, :-o damn.

[01:49:33]

fryfrog:

you can find a cable like that at radio shack for real cheap

[01:49:46]

fryfrog:

or you can buy one at best buy/apple/walmart for like $10+

[01:50:00]

HaSH:

damn. just spent like 45 mins looking for a s-video cable...was hoping i could get it set up tonight

[01:50:01]

fryfrog:

it is *possible* that your pvr150 came with one, but i dunno

[01:50:06]

ThatOtherGuy:

Anyone know where the heck MythWeb pulls it's 'Upcoming Recordings' from?

[01:50:18]

fryfrog:

you can get it "set up" but w/o audio :)

[01:50:33]

HaSH:

fryfrog, lol.

[01:51:00]

HaSH:

once my show finishes up in 10 mis...i wanna scope out the diff in vid quality

[01:51:09]

Shadow__X:

hey clever the script that i ran will it go forever

[01:51:19]

Shadow__X:

or only the amnt of mpg files it finds

[01:51:47]

mryanbrown:

hey c3rb3rus5

[01:51:50]

mryanbrown:

mryanbrown@ubuntu:~$ lspci | grep 1394

[01:51:50]

mryanbrown:

02:0b.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 04)

[01:51:50]

mryanbrown:

mryanbrown@ubuntu:~$

[01:51:50]

c3rb3rus5:

yo

[01:52:45]

HaSH:

any idea what i would look for...to have the 2 rca sound dongles plug into a headphone jack?

[01:53:07]

wagnerrp:

just exactly that

[01:53:11]

fryfrog:

yup, it is a cable with a headphones jack on one end...

[01:53:14]

wagnerrp:

its fairly common

[01:53:21]

iamlindoro:

rca -> 1/8th inch

[01:53:21]

wagnerrp:

theyre usually 6–18" long

[01:53:25]

fryfrog:

and and a pair of rca on the other

[01:53:28]

HaSH:

well i mean..im looking online....any terms or names?

[01:53:34]

fryfrog:

oh

[01:53:37]

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[01:53:40]

fryfrog:

headphones stereo adapter?

[01:53:42]

wagnerrp:

1/8" to RCA

[01:53:48]

fryfrog:

yeah, or that

[01:53:57]

c3rb3rus5:

mryanbrown: looks ok to me..

[01:53:58]

HaSH:

ok. cool.

[01:54:02]

HaSH:

thanks guys :-)

[01:55:15]

mryanbrown:

yea now uh

[01:55:23]

mryanbrown:

how do i check what node/bus mythtv is trying to use?

[01:55:24]

mryanbrown:

lol

[01:55:34]

mryanbrown:

run it from console!?

[01:55:35]

wagnerrp:

node/bus for what?

[01:55:43]

mryanbrown:

firewire

[01:55:52]

fryfrog:

mryanbrown: sudo plugreport

[01:55:57]

c3rb3rus5:

sudo apt-get install libiec61883-dev

[01:55:58]

c3rb3rus5:

first

[01:56:04]

c3rb3rus5:

if plugreport is not installed

[01:56:19]

fryfrog:

depending on your stb, myth may even detect the node's id, which is a better way of addressing an STB

[01:56:35]

fryfrog:

since it doesn't change, where as the node (0-?) can

[01:56:44]

mryanbrown:

yea but its not working so a prtion of detecting isnt working right

[01:56:44]

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[01:56:52]

stoth:

plugreport works well

[01:56:57]

stoth:

gscanbus is also useful.

[01:58:14]

Shadow__X:

firewire tester

[01:58:41]

iamlindoro:

firewire tester is *after* plugreport, Shadow__X

[01:58:52]

iamlindoro:

otherwise you're just guessing

[01:59:14]

c3rb3rus5:

in .21, al; that seemed to be unnecessary

[01:59:37]

iamlindoro:

firewire_tester is the only way to prime the connection, still absolutely necessary in .21

[01:59:37]

c3rb3rus5:

although mine stopped working and i dont know what went wrong

[01:59:44]

c3rb3rus5:

mythprime?

[01:59:53]

iamlindoro:

mythprime is a wrapper for firewire_tester

[01:59:59]

c3rb3rus5:

oh

[02:00:07]

iamlindoro:

likewise firewire_primer.pl

[02:00:18]

fryfrog:

iamlindoro: still having decent luck with my setup, thanks for your tuning/tweaking tips.

[02:00:20]

stoth:

I don't think I have any prime setup at all.

[02:00:27]

mryanbrown:

http://pastebin.com/m5b475d59

[02:00:29]

iamlindoro:

fryfrog, Glad to hear it, good stuff

[02:00:31]

mryanbrown:

how do i make sense of that

[02:00:41]

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[02:00:53]

fryfrog:

I am *just* about ready to try a newer ti chipset, i do still get a number of 0 byte and/or wonky recordings, but i get a lot more *good* ones too.

[02:00:56]

iamlindoro:

mryanbrown, you're plugged into node 1. That's more or less all you need to know

[02:01:08]

iamlindoro:

compile firewire_tester, then run firewire_tester -n 1 -B -r 5

[02:01:26]

iamlindoro:

If it starts with some fails, then ends in success, congrats, you're primed

[02:01:32]

iamlindoro:

if it fails throughout, you're not

[02:01:42]

Shadow__X:

iamlindoro, that was for c3rb3rus5 he had the connection working

[02:01:46]

Shadow__X:

but its just not primed

[02:01:47]

iamlindoro:

if it fails, try changing to a network channel like NBC/ABC/etc.

[02:01:58]

iamlindoro:

then try priming again

[02:02:09]

iamlindoro:

If that fails, you can try other channels, but odds are you won't be able to record

[02:02:32]

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[02:02:32]

c3rb3rus5:

its worked before for me

[02:02:36]

iamlindoro:

Shadow__X, c3rb3rus5' problem, if he is unable to make it prime, is likely that his cable co switched on 5C across the board.

[02:02:40]

c3rb3rus5:

it just stopped suddenly liek a month or 2 ago

[02:02:45]

iamlindoro:

^^^ c3rb3rus5

[02:02:46]

c3rb3rus5:

hold on

[02:02:47]

Shadow__X:

ah ok

[02:02:48]

iamlindoro:

see above.

[02:03:02]

iamlindoro:

If you can't prime on any channel, welcome to the world of "cable companies are dicks"

[02:03:07]

Shadow__X:

lol

[02:03:09]

Shadow__X:

agreed

[02:03:12]

c3rb3rus5:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=927333

[02:03:23]

c3rb3rus5:

its not that i cant prime

[02:03:24]

c3rb3rus5:

i can

[02:03:27]

c3rb3rus5:

well

[02:03:28]

c3rb3rus5:

sorta

[02:03:57]

c3rb3rus5:

i would think 5c too if i didnt see that second of vid there before things crapped out

[02:04:03]

iamlindoro:

don't use mythprime, use firewire tester

[02:04:05]

stoth:

I have two stb's, both with 5c disabled. Only one of them works under linux.

[02:04:17]

EnderTheThird:

Any of you guys have any experience with the Hauppauge 1600? I got the drivers/modules installed and it's being detected just fine according to dmesg, but it won't tune any channels.

[02:04:20]

stoth:

same stb, slightly different revision.

[02:04:27]

iamlindoro:

It's also possible you got a STB software upgrade that broke firewire

[02:04:36]

c3rb3rus5:

hm

[02:04:39]

iamlindoro:

stoth and I, apparently on the same wavelength :)

[02:04:40]

c3rb3rus5:

that is a possibility

[02:04:52]

Dagmar:

How does one disable 5c, exactly?

[02:04:57]

c3rb3rus5:

one does not

[02:05:06]

c3rb3rus5:

unfirtunately

[02:05:14]

c3rb3rus5:

:(

[02:05:15]

wagnerrp:

one goes to the headend, and flips a switch

[02:05:32]

Dagmar:

You guys have no idea whatsoever how to be subtle, do you

[02:06:01]

iamlindoro:

I would tend towards the "software update broke STB firewire" ATM

[02:06:56]

stoth:

<EnderTheThird: hvr1600 works for me.

[02:06:57]

c3rb3rus5:

that sucks... kindam akes my box here as useful as a brick

[02:07:18]

EnderTheThird:

stoth: what distro and myth version are you using?

[02:07:38]

stoth:

I'm not using it with myth, but it does work nicely.

[02:07:46]

wagnerrp:

distro and myth version should make no difference

[02:08:04]

wagnerrp:

just need ivtv and v4l-dvb-hg

[02:08:20]

EnderTheThird:

stoth: I followed the instructions on the Wiki, http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_HVR-1600, but no luck. It does mention trying to change the mmio_ndelay but I'm not sure how to do that

[02:08:21]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: You say that but you KNOW we always blame the Gentoo users

[02:08:41]

stoth:

<EnderTheThird: does azap work for you?

[02:08:53]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: i use gentoo, and im still starting to blame the gentoo users... :)

[02:08:56]

EnderTheThird:

stoth: unfamiliar with azap...?

[02:09:47]

iamlindoro:

EnderTheThird, It doesn't bitch about the EEprom in dmesg?

[02:11:08]

EnderTheThird:

http://pastebin.com/m5e978f3

[02:11:46]

iamlindoro:

Looks good to me

[02:12:05]

stoth:

<EnderTheThird: look at the wiki's at linuxtv.org, they describe how to use scan and azap.

[02:12:40]

EnderTheThird:

stoth: checking that out now.

[02:13:30]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: yeah. but in Myth, when I tune it to a channel, it shows 0% signal, no lock, and it keeps giving info about S/N ratio and whatnot. I know the signal is fine because I hooked it up to my TV directly to watch TV today (and I couldn't skip commercials. oh the horror!)

[02:15:15]

mryanbrown:

...

[02:15:19]

mryanbrown:

and the thunder roooooollls

[02:15:23]

iamlindoro:

well, that's not to say that both have the same tolerance, but still, seems like it *should* work

[02:15:25]

c3rb3rus5:

how can i reset what channel myth is on?

[02:15:36]

wagnerrp:

like... the starting channel?

[02:15:43]

iamlindoro:

mythtv-setup

[02:15:44]

c3rb3rus5:

yea

[02:15:51]

c3rb3rus5:

for some reason it starts on 352

[02:16:05]

c3rb3rus5:

apparnetly that channel fails testing

[02:16:11]

c3rb3rus5:

others do not

[02:16:29]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: yeah. tomorrow i'll probably hook it up directly to the wall. the cable co. split it 14 ways to sunday when they installed it (3 lines for TV, 1 for cable modem: all from the same inlet)

[02:16:40]

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[02:16:52]

iamlindoro:

I pray to god that is powered

[02:17:01]

iamlindoro:

otherwise, there's your problem

[02:17:08]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: what version myth you using?

[02:17:29]

Dagmar:

lol

[02:17:35]

Dagmar:

Dude.

[02:17:44]

Dagmar:

Go to the electronics store now.

[02:17:46]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: from the repo's in Ubuntu 8.04

[02:17:50]

Dagmar:

Buy a cablemodem amp.

[02:18:01]

Dagmar:

I'm suprised your cablemodem will even sync right now.

[02:18:14]

EnderTheThird:

shotty install job, i know, heh.

[02:18:15]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: pls. answer the question. I dont frigging know what's in Ubuntu

[02:18:25]

EnderTheThird:

How much would that run ya think?

[02:18:26]

wagnerrp:

make sure its a modem supported (bidirectional) amp, and not just a generic cable amp

[02:18:26]

iamlindoro:

.21

[02:18:34]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: .21 + whatever fixes

[02:18:37]

Dagmar:

EnderTheThird; no, there's a specific amount of signal loss you can *expect* to get from four splits.

[02:18:48]

wagnerrp:

if you do just get a generic amp, put it upstream of the splitter

[02:19:15]

mchou:

Wonter if the motoral powered amps are any good

[02:19:21]

mchou:

wonder*

[02:19:26]

mryanbrown:

http://pastebin.com/m6b27e7b0 ok so why isnt it working

[02:19:34]

Dagmar:

The problem is that basically, if you've split it four times, then you're on the very low end of "usable" unless the signal that was coming into the splitter was close to too "hot"

[02:19:41]

mchou:

Wonder if the motorola powered amps are any good

[02:19:44]

EnderTheThird:

Dagmar: there's a double split (1 going to the modem, the other to a 3-way splitter for the TV). i never had trouble so with it so i never bothered

[02:19:45]

c3rb3rus5:

mryanbrown: that looks good

[02:19:48]

Dagmar:

Mines made by RCA

[02:19:52]

c3rb3rus5:

on your way i guess..

[02:19:54]

Dagmar:

Works okay, but I didn't really need it

[02:19:57]

c3rb3rus5:

hows it set up in the backend?

[02:20:01]

mchou:

RCA is teh suck

[02:20:04]

mryanbrown:

what do you mean?

[02:20:08]

iamlindoro:

mryanbrown, did you set it up as the right box type/broadcast mode/looooong timeouts?

[02:20:13]

c3rb3rus5:

in mythbackend

[02:20:31]

mchou:

I doubt the RCA one is even bidirectional

[02:20:38]

mryanbrown:

it doesnt have my box type

[02:20:45]

mryanbrown:

I have an SA 8300HDC

[02:20:47]

c3rb3rus5:

iamlindoro: isnt mryanbrown's paste there a p2p setup?

[02:20:55]

mryanbrown:

I tried SA4250HD and 4250HDC

[02:21:05]

iamlindoro:

c3rb3rus5, yes, it is. That's why I'm asking./

[02:21:16]

c3rb3rus5:

o

[02:21:19]

c3rb3rus5:

nm i read yours wrong

[02:21:29]

c3rb3rus5:

its been along day

[02:21:31]

iamlindoro:

No, you're right, should have phrased it better

[02:21:38]

iamlindoro:

as two were positives and one a negative

[02:21:39]

EnderTheThird:

Dagmar: any particular model amp you'd recommend?

[02:21:55]

wagnerrp:

go to the store, test it

[02:21:59]

wagnerrp:

if it doesnt work, return it

[02:22:07]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: Dagmar wouldnt know since he uses RCA

[02:22:07]

Dagmar:

Whatever it rated to be useful for cablemodems

[02:22:10]

c3rb3rus5:

ok... i feel like an idiot...

[02:22:14]

Dagmar:

It should be able to handle the entire range.

[02:22:17]

c3rb3rus5:

there is def 5c on that channel that myth was on

[02:22:28]

Dagmar:

Some don't go all the way to the cablemodem freqs, which is why you want to pay attention

[02:22:29]

c3rb3rus5:

so it was testing ok

[02:22:29]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: I'd say go for a motorola

[02:22:35]

iamlindoro:

This is the shit:

[02:22:36]

iamlindoro:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PCT-cable-8-way-amp-amp . . . p3286.c0.m14

[02:22:39]

c3rb3rus5:

then when i went into myth itswitched channels

[02:22:50]

iamlindoro:

Great fucking amp, mkrufky recommended it to me, haven't bee nsorry

[02:23:30]

iamlindoro:

When I bought it it came with the power inserter, though (which you will need)

[02:23:37]

mchou:

iamlindoro: where is the power plug on that one?

[02:23:37]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: that is ridiculously cheap, haha

[02:23:54]

iamlindoro:

EnderTheThird, that's only a starting bid

[02:24:03]

iamlindoro:

mchou, It's inserted through the top-left drop

[02:24:08]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: but I'm getting 80% signal on my HDHR though. that should be good, no?

[02:24:20]

c3rb3rus5:

i'll just have to disable that channel in myth

[02:24:22]

iamlindoro:

EnderTheThird, Those %ages really mean nothing

[02:24:24]

wagnerrp:

note that you dont want an 8-way amp unless you need those 8 lines

[02:24:50]

mchou:

iamlindoro: wha do you mean? it's has an ac brig that has coax sticking out of it?

[02:24:58]

iamlindoro:

mchou, yep

[02:25:01]

mchou:

brick*

[02:25:12]

iamlindoro:

Here's the 2 port version, but same power inserter: http://cgi.ebay.com/PCT-Drop-Amp-BOOST-CABLE- . . . 3286.c0.m234

[02:25:15]

wagnerrp:

overamplification is as bad as too little signal

[02:25:34]

mchou:

the ebay guy doesnt show pic of ac adapter

[02:25:39]

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[02:25:53]

iamlindoro:

There is a pic in the one I just linked

[02:25:55]

strex-work:

evening folks.

[02:26:00]

wagnerrp:

i always found it off that they pumped power over one of the coax lines

[02:26:06]

iamlindoro:

same thing on the 8 port

[02:26:24]

mchou:

yeah, those AC adapters cant be trusted

[02:26:25]

iamlindoro:

I got mine for $27 I think, and that was the 8 port and included the power inserter

[02:26:26]

Dagmar:

You don't need something that can pump a signal to the moon.

[02:26:28]

stoth:

I use those amps. Nice.

[02:26:35]

Dagmar:

You just need something that costs about $25 that any Best Buy is going to have around

[02:26:39]

mchou:

you dont know if brick is regulated

[02:26:41]

mryanbrown:

pct is a good company

[02:26:45]

iamlindoro:

stoth, Yeah, I had heard that a number of guys from your work used them

[02:26:52]

strex-work:

can someone tell me where mythwelcome stores it's settings, I'm specifically looking for the "Command to start the frontend" section, or is there a command line option for it..

[02:26:58]

EnderTheThird:

i just don't want to shell out $50 for an amp if the signal isn't the problem.

[02:27:12]

Dagmar:

$25, not $50.

[02:27:27]

dustybin:

http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/09/22/ba . . . market-share

[02:27:34]

iamlindoro:

stoth, I'm currently using 5 of the drops and just capped the rest

[02:27:35]

EnderTheThird:

Dagmar: that too :)

[02:27:40]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: get the cable guy ver to your hous and how the power measured at all places

[02:27:51]

stoth:

iamlindoro: I have a 4 port. Works very well.

[02:28:03]

wagnerrp:

$free, since you can return it if its not the problem

[02:28:19]

iamlindoro:

stoth, I noticed an improvement in dropouts right away-- had been passively 3-way splitting it before

[02:28:21]

mchou:

I say go for the motorola amp

[02:28:24]

c3rb3rus5:

EnderTheThird: if you have a cable box sometimes i nthe diagnostics screen you can tell signal levels

[02:28:58]

EnderTheThird:

cerb3rus5: no cable box. might be able to get it from the service menu for my tv (if i can remember how to access it)

[02:29:08]

mryanbrown:

if you have a moto modem

[02:29:09]

mryanbrown:

or sa box

[02:29:13]

mryanbrown:

i can help you access it

[02:29:16]

Dagmar:

This right here looks like what I have at home

[02:29:17]

Dagmar:

http://item.express.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ190227 . . . ZExpressItem

[02:29:18]

mchou:

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/motorola-ca . . . r-1307.shtml

[02:29:21]

Dagmar:

I can't be 100% sure but I think that's it

[02:29:23]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: you got a link for the moto one?

[02:29:24]

iamlindoro:

I wouldn't trust any signal meter that's not in dB, by the way

[02:29:26]

Dagmar:

They're not hard to find

[02:29:37]

iamlindoro:

percentages are more or less meaningless

[02:29:41]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: just gave you one

[02:29:48]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: i was just a little late, heh.

[02:30:03]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: two bad it's only a 2-way

[02:30:07]

mchou:

too*

[02:30:09]

c3rb3rus5:

if iwant to remove a channel from my listing because of 5c, should i delete it from myth, ot delete it from my profile at schedules direct

[02:30:11]

c3rb3rus5:

or both

[02:30:33]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: i need at least 4 outputs. probably 5

[02:30:43]

mchou:

c3rb3rus5: both really

[02:30:58]

c3rb3rus5:

ok

[02:31:15]

mchou:

c3rb3rus5: but SD would be "enough"

[02:31:26]

c3rb3rus5:

ok

[02:31:49]

c3rb3rus5:

myth wont update my sd account though, right?

[02:31:50]

mryanbrown:

so this is mind boggling

[02:31:53]

mryanbrown:

the firewire works

[02:31:57]

mryanbrown:

mythtv doesnt

[02:32:02]

mryanbrown:

im supposed to click "watch tv" right

[02:32:26]

iamlindoro:

mryanbrown, yes... but there could be more to it than that-- what does the backend log say about it?

[02:32:34]

mryanbrown:

how do i check it

[02:32:37]

iamlindoro:

did oyu set up storage groups properly? Do you have permissions to those dirs?

[02:32:50]

iamlindoro:

by going to wherever your distro keeps backend logs and reading them?

[02:33:02]

iamlindoro:

like /var/log/mythsomethingoranother

[02:33:55]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Broadband-Drop-A . . . 134004r35517

[02:34:24]

mchou:

motorola has 4-way available

[02:34:39]

** RyeBrye hates "fraud protection" that Bank of America does **

[02:35:05]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: feast on this: http://www.signalboosterstore.com/dropamps.htm

[02:35:32]

RyeBrye:

Seriously... I'm placing a big order at NewEgg and I kept getting my CC denied – despite the fact I had tons more on the card... 30 minutes later BoA calls me and wants to "make sure" that it's me...

[02:35:37]

c3rb3rus5:

mryanbrown: /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log

[02:36:10]

strex-work:

on an FE only system, where are the settings for mythtv stored.

[02:36:42]

RyeBrye:

I also love how the banks make this "fraud protection" sound like something that is there to help protect me... but I'm already protected if someone were using my card fraudulently... they just block my purchases every once in a while so they can protect themselves

[02:37:13]

mchou:

RyeBrye: bingo!

[02:37:41]

mchou:

RyeBrye: banks are out to protect themselves. No they calling the Feds

[02:37:45]

mchou:

Now*

[02:38:19]

c3rb3rus5:

looks like all the premiums are 5c protected... calbe co wised up..

[02:38:23]

c3rb3rus5:

think they were open before

[02:38:49]

mchou:

I forget the statistic. but it's ~$2K for every person in the US for the "bail-out"

[02:38:51]

Dagmar:

RyeBrye: Once you buy from something like that tho, it'll be on your profile and won't be an issue again

[02:39:04]

Dagmar:

RyeBrye: I take it you don't often buy computer stuff online

[02:39:07]

mchou:

c3rb3rus5: where is this?

[02:39:09]

RyeBrye:

I do... actually

[02:39:14]

c3rb3rus5:

northern nj

[02:39:16]

RyeBrye:

but I guess I don't often buy full systems online from newegg

[02:39:26]

EnderTheThird:

iamlindoro: thanks for the link. i placed the order

[02:39:27]

Dagmar:

RyeBrye: Okay that's kinda odd then. Maybe usually only small stuff?

[02:39:39]

mchou:

c3rb3rus5: you using what set top?

[02:39:53]

c3rb3rus5:

sa 4250hd

[02:39:56]

RyeBrye:

yeah, smaller stuff....

[02:40:12]

RyeBrye:

but a week or two ago they put a fraud alert on a $30 purchase of a replacement battery

[02:40:29]

mchou:

for your UPS?

[02:40:39]

RyeBrye:

I guess the $1700 purchase looked weird compared to my for a portable DVD player

[02:40:50]

RyeBrye:

and I was like "a fraud alert for $29? really?"

[02:40:56]

stoth:

c3rb3rus5: cv?

[02:41:13]

c3rb3rus5:

yeh

[02:41:27]

** RyeBrye is done ranting... but is sad that there is likely NO chance his newegg order will get out tonight because of the 3+ hour delay BoA threw into the loop **

[02:41:39]

stoth:

I have everything I pay for, discovery, scifi, others. I don't do hbo tbh.

[02:41:51]

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[02:42:58]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: you know you can do a primity of signal strength yourself if you have atsc/qam card, right?

[02:43:07]

c3rb3rus5:

yea, everything else seems to work

[02:43:07]

mchou:

primitive*

[02:43:38]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: scandvb

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[02:44:49]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: i'd need to check that out for HDHR. probably through hdhomerun_config or whatever.

[02:45:13]

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[02:45:21]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: And the amp is a good idea anyway. I've had some dropouts in my recordings.

[02:45:32]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: I agree

[02:45:46]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: so where did you place an order?

[02:46:03]

mryanbrown:

ok so i think the problem is the backend directories

[02:46:11]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: you go via fleabay?

[02:46:51]

strex-work:

on an FE only system, where are the settings for mythtv stored.

[02:46:57]

mryanbrown:

what directory should i put livetv and db backups in?

[02:47:02]

mchou:

EnderTheThird: I mean the order for the amp

[02:47:49]

strex-work:

mryanbrown I would place them in /storage but that deponds on your install.

[02:47:49]

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[02:48:01]

mryanbrown:

what do you mean strex-work

[02:48:18]

EnderTheThird:

mchou: yeah. found a Buy It Now

[02:48:25]

mryanbrown:

what directories does mythtv have write permissions too

[02:48:31]

strex-work:

mryanbrown what distro?

[02:48:35]

mryanbrown:

im logged in as a standard user trying to run mythtv

[02:48:38]

mryanbrown:

ubuntu

[02:49:25]

strex-work:

mryanbrown mine are on the same partition as my 'recodings' are.

[02:49:44]

strex-work:

so I have /storage/LiveTV /storage/recordings ...

[02:49:44]

mryanbrown:

how did you set them up

[02:49:50]

mryanbrown:

did you have to create them and chmod or chown

[02:49:52]

strex-work:

mythtv-setup

[02:49:57]

strex-work:

yes

[02:50:47]

strex-work:

mryanbrown in mythtv-setup, checkout 'storage groups'

[02:55:01]

EnderTheThird:

anyone know how to adust the "mmio_ndelay module parameter"?

[02:55:07]

EnderTheThird:

*adjust

[02:55:32]

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[02:55:34]

stoth:

modprobe cx18 mmio_ndelay=<something>

[02:55:49]

stoth:

but that isn't your problem.

[02:56:06]

stoth:

you'd get i2c errors in dmesg if you need to adjust mmio_ndelay

[02:56:17]

EnderTheThird:

stoth: i'll take your word for it then :) thanks

[02:56:42]

EnderTheThird:

maybe this one just doesn't survive on a wussy signal. i'll find out soon enough i guess

[02:56:54]

mryanbrown:

strex-work: ok right yea thats the directories im talking about

[02:56:58]

mryanbrown:

i enter w/e right

[02:57:00]

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[02:57:07]

mryanbrown:

but ultimately i still have to create that directory and chown it to mythtv

[02:57:12]

mryanbrown:

right?

[02:57:19]

strex-work:

yes

[02:57:22]

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[02:57:50]

mryanbrown:

is there an easy way to reset mythtv to defaults? lol

[02:58:21]

strex-work:

mryanbrown make the dir's and make sure the user runnign mythbackend has access to write/read to them, then run mythtv-setup and add them in the 'storage groups' section..

[02:58:46]

strex-work:

mryanbrown, easy.. no.. not that I know of.

[02:59:00]

mryanbrown:

lol

[02:59:08]

c3rb3rus5:

mryanbrown: actually an install is easy enough

[02:59:12]

c3rb3rus5:

w/ mythbuntu at least

[02:59:24]

c3rb3rus5:

that wuold be my preferred method

[02:59:53]

c3rb3rus5:

if you are going from ubuntu and unstalling the packages, then i don;t know

[03:03:47]

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[03:05:39]

mryanbrown:

http://pastebin.com/m5a2d38ea my newest error

[03:06:00]

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[03:09:29]

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[03:10:41]

Solaris444:

Hi guys. I have 2 capture cards in my mythtv box. One of them only has one channel (it's for capturing composite sources) and the other has all the regular tv channels. Do I have to change cards in order to watch the tv channels by pressing something?

[03:14:37]

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[03:18:04]

cesman:

Solaris444: the first card defined in your db is the first card used for livetv

[03:18:28]

Solaris444:

ok. The only channel number assigned to it is 0

[03:18:35]

Solaris444:

When I try to change channel, it won't.

[03:18:46]

Solaris444:

So do I first have to change capture cards?

[03:19:19]

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[03:19:22]

wagnerrp:

in livetv, you have to change the capture card

[03:19:38]

wagnerrp:

you can do it through the onscreen menu 'm', or change directly 'i-dont-know'

[03:19:40]

Solaris444:

ah ok thankyou wagnerrp.

[03:19:59]

Solaris444:

ok, some other key.

[03:20:06]

wagnerrp:

you cannot just cycle through the channels to access it

[03:20:08]

Solaris444:

Any way to do it from remote do you know?

[03:20:13]

Solaris444:

ahhhh

[03:20:14]

wagnerrp:

lirc

[03:20:19]

Solaris444:

I was worried something was wrong.

[03:20:38]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: You sure?

[03:20:40]

Solaris444:

I just mean, do you know if most remotes in lirc have that mapped.

[03:20:49]

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[03:20:51]

wagnerrp:

all lirc does is simulate key presses, so its just a function of mapping that button

[03:20:52]

iamlindoro:

Since you do the lirc mapping, you'd have to tell us

[03:20:59]

DarkDrgn2k:

Hey guys, im trying to compile MYTH on debian i get following kryptic error

[03:21:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

{standard input}: Assembler messages:

[03:21:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

{standard input}:176389: Warning: end of file not at end of a line; newline inserted

[03:21:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

{standard input}:175917: Error: undefined symbol `.LLSDACSE6453' in operation

[03:21:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

g++: Internal error: Killed (program cc1plus)

[03:21:03]

Dagmar:

I set mine up with a phony channel 1 bound to only the composite input on one tuner and it cycles through them all fine

[03:21:22]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Which version of Myth are you trying to compile?:

[03:21:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

21

[03:21:26]

DarkDrgn2k:

release

[03:21:27]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: really, it doesnt do that for me

[03:21:39]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: I might have just gotten lucky then

[03:21:49]

Dagmar:

All I did was set it up in a way that presumably makes sense.

[03:21:56]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Is the source *clean*?

[03:22:07]

wagnerrp:

i get to the end of one source, and it just cycles back up to the top of that source

[03:22:17]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmmm....

[03:22:24]

wagnerrp:

last time i tried it though (i dont use livetv often)

[03:22:27]

DarkDrgn2k:

well i better say yes otherwise ou wont help me :-D

[03:22:31]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: I.e., did you freshly untar the tarball?

[03:22:35]

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[03:22:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

svn

[03:22:51]

iamlindoro:

Did you apply *any* patching?

[03:22:55]

Dagmar:

No, you better answer ACCURATELY or the first sign I see you're LYING about it I will *put you in ignore permanently*

[03:22:56]

DarkDrgn2k:

LOL

[03:23:04]

DarkDrgn2k:

yes i did, but i have applied them before and it compiled fine

[03:23:14]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: For one thing, there's no point in getting 0.21 release if you're using SVN.

[03:23:19]

cesman:

Solaris444: 'y' will change the cards (if I recall correctly)

[03:23:20]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Get 0.21-fixes.

[03:23:24]

iamlindoro:

*which* patches?

[03:23:28]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: yes thats the one i am using

[03:23:33]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Generally you're going to want the -fixes branch from release anyway

[03:23:43]

** iamlindoro has a $50 that say he knows which patches, but wants a straight answer anyway **

[03:23:45]

Dagmar:

So what patches did you apply

[03:23:50]

cesman:

Solaris444: there is a file called keys.txt w/ the default key bindings

[03:23:51]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: a bunch of patches, for randomg things

[03:23:56]

iamlindoro:

such as?

[03:23:58]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: mostly experimental support..

[03:23:58]

wagnerrp:

well i just cycled through, and it only displayed the channels from my analog source

[03:24:12]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: eit clean up, and such

[03:24:13]

iamlindoro:

for...?

[03:24:14]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Well, if your'e going to be evasive you can sort out which patch *broke* the thing yourself

[03:24:15]

Solaris444:

ahhhh thankyou cesman

[03:24:20]

Solaris444:

I'll try that one shortly.

[03:24:23]

iamlindoro:

here, let me get this for you

[03:24:35]

iamlindoro:

"I installed all sorts of illegal softcam stuff. Will you still help me?"

[03:24:37]

iamlindoro:

NO!

[03:24:42]

wagnerrp:

same with the digital source

[03:24:45]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: Ummm what are you talkinga bout?

[03:24:52]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: illegal softcams???

[03:24:53]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: You MUST do a `make clean` after applying patches or things will FAIL.

[03:24:54]

wagnerrp:

guess im going to be rooting around the settings tables for a while to see where that option is

[03:25:11]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: first of all i didnt know there were legal ones!!!

[03:25:14]

iamlindoro:

you're right, they're ALL illegal. Good point

[03:25:30]

Dagmar:

Oh we're *very* done if there's softcam stuff involved.

[03:25:34]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: and lets be clear... i am NOT installign ANY softcams into my myth installation!

[03:25:34]

Dagmar:

You can ask those people for help.

[03:25:39]

iamlindoro:

Don't make me be devious in getting you to show me that you have, there's no point

[03:25:52]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Then `make clean` before you try to run configure and make again

[03:25:55]

iamlindoro:

Better to just admit it and maybe someone will help you

[03:25:58]

iamlindoro:

it just won't be me

[03:26:01]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar.. im just gonna download a new svn.

[03:26:24]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro. nop.. no softcams... mostly things liek dshowserver...mysql conn fix... eir chace fix..

[03:26:29]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro. no softcams here...

[03:26:32]

iamlindoro:

Don't believe you

[03:26:33]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro. i got analog cable tV!

[03:26:37]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Are you sure those are acutally *bugs*

[03:26:48]

iamlindoro:

hang on

[03:26:50]

iamlindoro:

all talking cease

[03:26:53]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Bug fixes tend to get applied to 0.21-fixes, which is why it's -fixes.

[03:26:53]

iamlindoro:

now read this:

[03:27:01]

iamlindoro:

"<DarkDrgn2k> iamlindoro: eit clean up, and such"

[03:27:06]

iamlindoro:

"DarkDrgn2k> iamlindoro. i got analog cable tV!"

[03:27:11]

iamlindoro:

liar, point made.

[03:27:13]

DarkDrgn2k:

yes sorry

[03:27:15]

DarkDrgn2k:

DVB ATSC

[03:27:21]

iamlindoro:

mmhm

[03:27:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

the cx88 that is REALLY wierd..

[03:27:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

stops working after a reboot claiming there no eprom.. then few reboots later.. starts workigna gain..

[03:27:53]

DarkDrgn2k:

crazy mystery.... if you wanna take a crack at that one..

[03:28:04]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Either way the problem you pasteflooded is generally the sort of thing that happens from an *unclean build*

[03:28:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

dam you guys are sOOo negative... using such hard words...

[03:28:35]

Solaris444:

What is a softcam?

[03:28:36]

DarkDrgn2k:

Flood.. Softcam... LOl

[03:28:47]

DarkDrgn2k:

sfotcam is an illigla peice of software to emulatre a hard cam

[03:28:56]

Dagmar:

*I'm* trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[03:28:57]

Solaris444:

how can software be illegal?

[03:28:59]

DarkDrgn2k:

it is not supported here.... so go away

[03:29:03]

Solaris444:

Is it a pirate copy?

[03:29:03]

DarkDrgn2k:

Solaris444: breaks drm..

[03:29:26]

DarkDrgn2k:

or is that DCMA... meee

[03:29:26]

Solaris444:

That's only illegal in the US last time I checked.

[03:29:35]

Solaris444:

How does it break DRM?

[03:29:39]

Dagmar:

Solaris444: And we're in the US. This is a verboten topic.

[03:29:40]

iamlindoro:

Solaris444, It's a tool to help someone steal cable. As such, it's a) offlimits talk here, and b) we don't help anyone who uses it.

[03:29:48]

iamlindoro:

er not cable, sorry, sat

[03:29:59]

Solaris444:

you can steal cable? 0.o

[03:30:06]

DarkDrgn2k:

Solaris444: sure.. take your filters off..

[03:30:07]

Solaris444:

I've never heard of any of that.

[03:30:17]

Solaris444:

Most people in my country don't have pay tv.

[03:30:31]

** kormoc sighs **

[03:30:35]

Dagmar:

Solaris444: For what should be painfully obvious reasons, anything which would bring legal heat on the project or it's users is entirely unwelcome.

[03:30:44]

EnderTheThird:

With Hulu, there isn't much need to steal shows anyway. An increasingly large portion of shows are on there. Only pain is when they rotate episodes for a season and don't keep them up there.

[03:30:49]

iamlindoro:

Solaris444, so now we're all gonna stop talking about it

[03:30:49]

kormoc:

Just don't talk about it or rlse you'll be kicked and/or banned

[03:30:57]

Solaris444:

well that's fair enough Dagmar, but believe me, I'd never heard of any of this before just now.

[03:31:00]

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[03:31:07]

DarkDrgn2k:

yes, and the only reason the word "DISHNETOWKR" is in the project is because dish has some free channels.. or so i hear...

[03:31:16]

Dagmar:

Either way I think if Dark would just do a make clean before building again it should compile properly

[03:31:27]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: im taking you up on that offer :)

[03:31:43]

DarkDrgn2k:

forgot abgout the patches otherwise i would have tried that first LOL

[03:31:51]

DarkDrgn2k:

i just hate how cryptic the compiler cacn be

[03:31:52]

Dagmar:

If it doesn't, then he needs to stop bring duplicitous or go elsewhere

[03:32:02]

Dagmar:

The compiler isn't being cryptic.

[03:32:06]

Dagmar:

It's being rather specific.

[03:32:16]

DarkDrgn2k:

really... googled some of the terms

[03:32:35]

DarkDrgn2k:

asside from words liek "WARNING" "END OF FILE" and "ASSEMBER" nothign really came up..

[03:32:36]

Dagmar:

You don't get missing symbols unless the list of objects has changed between the time it made one object and when it made another.

[03:32:43]

Dagmar:

...and that doesn't happen unless the source changes.

[03:33:18]

DarkDrgn2k:

your talkigna bout linking against objects?

[03:33:24]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: I could tell you about a problem with a nucleo-peptide reaction and you wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about from google queries either

[03:33:42]

DarkDrgn2k:

Dagmar: yes, i know..

[03:33:56]

DarkDrgn2k:

but this time google returned NOTHING

[03:34:03]

Dagmar:

So?

[03:34:11]

DarkDrgn2k:

which is unlike it.. it likes to list random ussles topics..

[03:34:32]

Dagmar:

So post your error output somewhere that Google will see it, and in a few days you'll have hits when you search for it.

[03:34:46]

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[03:34:56]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: hmmmmm scraping... yummy

[03:35:13]

Dagmar:

In the meantime, do a make clean and/or grab new source already.

[03:35:23]

DarkDrgn2k:

yes yes.. i am...

[03:35:31]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol almspot done.. i hope..

[03:35:42]

Dagmar:

In the amount of time you've wasted talking, you could have grabbed 0.21-fixes anew, applied whatever the hell crazy patches you've got there, and started the build again.

[03:35:45]

DarkDrgn2k:

hey how stable has the trunk gotten.. worked out most of the qt4 bugs?

[03:35:58]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: i am grabbing.... its just slwo cause its a flash card hd

[03:36:13]

Dagmar:

I strongly recommend *scripting* the builds so if you have to redo it later you won't leave steps out.

[03:36:17]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: no im building w/o patches first... wanan see if problem re-arrises

[03:36:22]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: process of limination

[03:36:24]

Dagmar:

It won't.

[03:36:29]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmmmmm eeeeee

[03:36:31]

DarkDrgn2k:

i hope not..

[03:36:44]

DarkDrgn2k:

maybe its debian thats being all duuuuu.. most of my builds were on fedora

[03:36:44]

Dagmar:

Of course if you compile, and then apply patches, and FAIL to run make clean before you try with the patches added, it will just FAIL again.

[03:37:01]

wagnerrp:

i cant see anything in the settings to explain why you cycle through all tuners, and i only cycle through the current tuner

[03:37:06]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: lol no... i like my distros clean..

[03:37:30]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: If that were true you would have been saying "rebuild the RPM"

[03:37:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

..... RPM.... whats a motor got to do with it :-P

[03:37:58]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: I've no idea. Probably luck

[03:38:15]

Dagmar:

Might be because I invoked the callsign 'EVIL' for channel 1.

[03:38:18]

Dagmar:

;)

[03:38:27]

PinkFreud:

why bother building on debian?

[03:38:38]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud

[03:38:48]

PinkFreud:

debian's mythtv packages appear to work well enough.

[03:38:49]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: cause.. i got tiered for fedoras excessive bulk

[03:38:57]

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[03:39:03]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: i like hacking away at the source....

[03:39:08]

Dagmar:

PinkFreud: because it mainly doesn't matter what distro one compiles on, compared to how much it matters that someone 1) be familiar with compiling things and 2) be familiar with the platform/distro they're compiling on.

[03:39:26]

PinkFreud:

Dagmar: indeed. Hence, my question. :)

[03:39:39]

Dagmar:

PinkFreud: Some people like doing things the hard way.

[03:39:51]

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[03:39:58]

PinkFreud:

If one isn't familiar with the compilation process, one might merely be better off sticking with the binary packages :)

[03:40:04]

Dagmar:

Some people like to do things from scratch to gain a greater understanding of what pieces are involved because the *lack* of them at hte outset will bring things to a screaming halt

[03:40:16]

PinkFreud:

heh. indeed.

[03:40:46]

Dagmar:

Sometimes you just wanna solve problems for other people

[03:40:51]

RyeBrye:

NEVER!

[03:40:55]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[03:40:56]

RyeBrye:

;)

[03:41:15]

Dagmar:

Like, I put http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview together after going through the docs and finding them to be pretty opaque as to explaining how the whole thing works.

[03:41:27]

PinkFreud:

however, one might also point out that you can get the debian source package and use that to build. that might give you some insight into how the distro builds it.

[03:41:38]

Dagmar:

I'll probably update some of it to include mention of the uPnP mechanisms soon if no one beats me to it

[03:41:42]

Dagmar:

I'm mainly waiting for 0.22

[03:41:45]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: yes,,, its called GENTOO :)

[03:41:48]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: of LFS

[03:41:54]

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[03:41:55]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: some one beet you to that thought..

[03:42:08]

PinkFreud:

DarkDrgn2k: one does not have to run gentoo to want to recompile a distro's packages.

[03:42:13]

Dagmar:

PinkFreud: I could put all the useful information that would get one onto a 3x5 card and have space left over.

[03:42:41]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmmm.. witespace

[03:42:44]

Dagmar:

Regardles of what the Gentoo people might claim, running `buildcommand gogogo` doesn't teach someone a damn thing

[03:43:21]

Dagmar:

LFS is kinda like teaching someone to swim by dropping them in the middle of Lake Ponchatrain tho

[03:43:30]

DarkDrgn2k:

dagar: i'd have to agrea...

[03:43:31]

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[03:43:40]

PinkFreud:

DarkDrgn2k: for instance, I recently found myself in the position of having a recent mplayer, but an outdated mga_vid driver, with no newer driver package available. in that case, utilizing debian's source package was handy.

[03:44:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

Dagmar: but how do you teach some one to compile a kernel.. when they think an OS is sopposed to be as bulky as windows?

[03:44:19]

RyeBrye:

I've never run gentoo, but is the first step to write your own compiler somehow in RAM and then write your own disk driver in RAM so it can read the source files to compile the rest of itself? Anything else would just seem so "impure" ;)

[03:44:25]

PinkFreud:

DarkDrgn2k: that's typically what documentation is for. :)

[03:44:33]

fryfrog:

RyeBrye: exactly :P

[03:44:33]

Dagmar:

DarkDrgn2k: Until they know some basic Unix admin skills, I *don't*

[03:44:52]

PinkFreud:

Dagmar: and reading skills, too. *cough*

[03:44:54]

Dagmar:

It's like teaching someone to turbocharge an engine before they know how to drive.

[03:44:55]

PinkFreud:

:)

[03:45:00]

DarkDrgn2k:

Dagmar: LOL yeh.... that saves you some ... umm.. interesting questions...

[03:45:02]

strex-work:

Where does mythweb get it's mysql auth info from?

[03:45:09]

Dagmar:

strex-work: From the config file it has

[03:45:25]

Dagmar:

That and two other variables you pretty much have to set by hand.

[03:45:31]

Dagmar:

...but they aint hard to find.

[03:45:50]

strex-work:

Dagmar and where is that located, any idea what files / file neames?

[03:46:02]

DarkDrgn2k:

welll im making... this may take a few hours..

[03:46:18]

RyeBrye:

ccache?

[03:46:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

nop.. no ccache..

[03:46:42]

RyeBrye:

what are you building? myth? ccache = your friend

[03:46:48]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[03:46:50]

DarkDrgn2k:

yeh i guess

[03:47:04]

RyeBrye:

especially since you have to make distclean so much

[03:47:06]

DarkDrgn2k:

strex-work: SPOONFEAD – look at your apache conf file...

[03:47:07]

wagnerrp:

DarkDrgn2k: what are you building it on that will take hours?

[03:47:17]

RyeBrye:

on my p4 machine it takes hours

[03:47:22]

wagnerrp:

my old ass laptop builds in just under 2

[03:47:28]

wagnerrp:

P3 1GHz

[03:47:28]

DarkDrgn2k:

model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz

[03:47:31]

RyeBrye:

well... takes hours if I don't have ccache

[03:47:36]

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[03:47:43]

DarkDrgn2k:

harddrive is a COMPAQ FLASH and sources on an NFS drive

[03:47:52]

RyeBrye:

compact flash or compaq flash?

[03:47:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

the latter...

[03:48:03]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmm

[03:48:06]

DarkDrgn2k:

ccache is installed

[03:48:16]

wagnerrp:

compiling over nfs isnt too much of an issue

[03:48:18]

RyeBrye:

type ccache -s to see if the stats are increasing

[03:48:22]

iamlindoro:

unlikely

[03:48:27]

strex-work:

DarkDrgn2k yea, no.. nothing in there about it..

[03:48:41]

wagnerrp:

my fe/be 2GHz AMD builds in about 45 minutes over NFS

[03:48:47]

RyeBrye:

if ccache isn't working right you can look on the wiki to make sure it is set up right

[03:48:53]

DarkDrgn2k:

really?

[03:48:58]

DarkDrgn2k:

setenv db_password "mythtv"

[03:49:07]

DarkDrgn2k:

right out of my /etc/httpd/conf.d/mythweb.conf

[03:49:21]

strex-work:

DarkDrgn2k I see it now, thx

[03:49:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

:)

[03:49:39]

PinkFreud:

DarkDrgn2k: mmmm, thanks for your db pw. :P

[03:49:50]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: good now all you have to do is get to my internet network..

[03:49:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: and hack my DEFAULT password on my myth box.. .oooooooo

[03:50:03]

PinkFreud:

you have your own internet?! woah!

[03:50:04]

RyeBrye:

on old crappy processors ccache is like gold – every cache hit is at least 2 or 3 second saved

[03:50:04]

** PinkFreud ducks **

[03:50:04]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud: not my hours of recoded mythbusters!!!

[03:50:10]

DarkDrgn2k:

intranet.. w/e

[03:50:25]

PinkFreud:

:)

[03:50:51]

DarkDrgn2k:

besides.. hwo do you know i didnt pull that out of the DEFAULT conf file?

[03:51:09]

PinkFreud:

23:49 <DarkDrgn2k> right out of my /etc/httpd/conf.d/mythweb.conf

[03:51:13]

PinkFreud:

:P

[03:51:19]

DarkDrgn2k:

PinkFreud... dam.. i was hoping you wouldnt read up..

[03:51:39]

PinkFreud:

I'm one of those rare people who can read.

[03:51:44]

** DarkDrgn2k gasps **

[03:51:47]

PinkFreud:

yes, even on irc.

[03:51:51]

PinkFreud:

:)

[03:52:21]

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[03:52:42]

** DarkDrgn2k wonders where he put his punchtool!!! **

[03:52:51]

RyeBrye:

What would you think the "The ultimate HD cable DVR with the largest recording capacity in the country." would consist of?

[03:52:56]

PinkFreud:

anyway, time for me to wander off.

[03:53:07]

DarkDrgn2k:

i cant start using hammers and flatheads again...... lat time i killed a 24 pair pannel..

[03:53:55]

PinkFreud:

RyeBrye: as much hardware as you could reasonably (and not-so-reasonably) toss into a single box?

[03:53:58]

DarkDrgn2k:

a bunch of chinese kids locke dup in my basement memorizing numbers?

[03:54:15]

PinkFreud:

why you'd want to, though, is beyond me.

[03:54:21]

RyeBrye:

PinkFreud – Exactly... certainly not a TiVO though – that line is from their new TiVO HD box with 1 TB storage

[03:54:28]

PinkFreud:

I tend to go for practical rather than utterly ridiculous.

[03:54:34]

iamlindoro:

"The thing in my closet right now"

[03:54:38]

PinkFreud:

heh

[03:54:45]

RyeBrye:

I read that and I thought to myself "Hmm... I have a better one than that. Maybe I should force them to put an asterisk on that page"

[03:54:52]

wagnerrp:

the problem is that if you want control over your content, you cant go with MCE

[03:54:52]

PinkFreud:

hehe

[03:55:02]

wagnerrp:

however if you want the content to begin with, you have to use MCE

[03:55:05]

PinkFreud:

so, yeah, about that wandering off bit...

[03:55:08]

** PinkFreud waves. **

[03:55:09]

wagnerrp:

(or an HD-PVR)

[03:55:19]

RyeBrye:

Well.. yeah, the HD-PVR is like the keys to the kingdom right now

[03:55:48]

** iamlindoro strokes his HD-PVR **

[03:55:57]

iamlindoro:

That's what the kids are calling it these days

[03:56:20]

wagnerrp:

'stroking it'?

[03:56:30]

iamlindoro:

"my HD-PVR"

[03:56:32]

RyeBrye:

what features are yet to be finished for the mythtv using the HD-PVR

[03:56:37]

RyeBrye:

does it still crash if the resolution changes?

[03:56:48]

iamlindoro:

RyeBrye, yes

[03:56:55]

iamlindoro:

and takes the whollllle backend with it

[03:57:02]

wagnerrp:

theres some audio format limitations with the firmware arent there?

[03:57:06]

iamlindoro:

I would imagine that would be a showstopper for some people

[03:57:19]

iamlindoro:

Yes, the frimware only allows 2 channel PCM input... new will allow 5.1 AC3

[03:57:26]

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[03:57:31]

RyeBrye:

Hmmm... I think a watchdog process might be in order – problem solved !:)

[03:57:33]

iamlindoro:

should be out soonish, and the driver already supports it

[03:58:14]

RyeBrye:

that's cool

[03:58:31]

iamlindoro:

You can't losslessly cut the HD-PVr output, myth needs at LEASt the nex ffmpeg sync to play everything properly, IR support needs to go into the driver, and there are some limitations on the bitrate settings

[03:58:32]

RyeBrye:

does the S/PDIF passthrough on a motherboard just avoid the audio chipset entirely?

[03:58:44]

RyeBrye:

Ok, that makes sense

[03:58:47]

iamlindoro:

SPDIF passthrough won't work with AC3 either right now

[03:58:49]

DarkDrgn2k:

but asside from ATSC what HD capable sources are supported?

[03:58:53]

RyeBrye:

Gotcha

[03:59:00]

RyeBrye:

QAM

[03:59:06]

RyeBrye:

and HD-PVR would be another HD source

[03:59:07]

iamlindoro:

HD-PVR

[03:59:11]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmm.. not in monopolized-cabletv-rogers-hell

[03:59:16]

iamlindoro:

*real* DVB

[03:59:26]

DarkDrgn2k:

unless you wanan wach some one else's VOD

[03:59:28]

RyeBrye:

No, HD-PVR would be your solution – it takes the component output

[03:59:42]

DarkDrgn2k:

hmm...

[03:59:42]

DarkDrgn2k:

nothing really i liek up there..

[04:00:16]

RyeBrye:

the HD-PVR is that "analog hole" they always tell horror stories of

[04:00:25]

wagnerrp:

some people get a fair amount of channels over QAM

[04:00:34]

wagnerrp:

others get a fair amount of channels over firewire

[04:00:39]

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[04:00:42]

RyeBrye:

ah, I forgot firewire

[04:00:50]

DarkDrgn2k:

yeh.. canada is not yet regulated to force cable providers to send public broadcasts over CLEAN QAM

[04:01:10]

DarkDrgn2k:

yeh... my gf's rogers box has firewire

[04:01:10]

wagnerrp:

but the hd-pvr is the only guaranteed source of hd cable material

[04:01:16]

DarkDrgn2k:

gatta see if anything gets sent ofer there

[04:01:27]

wagnerrp:

at least until they allow providers to shutdown the analog outputs

[04:01:29]

DarkDrgn2k:

i know the port is active

[04:01:40]

iamlindoro:

Then we buy HDFury2s

[04:01:40]

wagnerrp:

and subsequently revoke the license for the HD Fury

[04:02:00]

iamlindoro:

Which is soft-upgradeable

[04:02:13]

DarkDrgn2k:

yeh.. HD prospecs seems quite bleak for legit HD channels :-S

[04:02:22]

wagnerrp:

where do they get a replacement license for to upgrade them with?

[04:02:24]

RyeBrye:

If they outlaw HD recording, only the outlaws will record HD

[04:02:29]

RyeBrye:

(read: the Satellite hackers)

[04:02:51]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, by not ever having had a license in the first place

[04:03:10]

wagnerrp:

they have to get a decoding key from somewhere

[04:03:11]

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[04:03:18]

iamlindoro:

and by all account, by already using a key that is used in most sony TVs, resulting in them needing to revoke HDMI on most of those too

[04:04:14]

** DarkDrgn2k just gogoed hd fury... interestng **

[04:04:42]

wagnerrp:

interesting, but by no means cheap

[04:05:01]

wagnerrp:

especially considering it outputs VGA rather than component

[04:05:13]

iamlindoro:

not the hdfury2

[04:05:14]

DarkDrgn2k:

buck 50.. not AWFULL

[04:05:17]

iamlindoro:

that's component

[04:05:25]

wagnerrp:

really...

[04:05:28]

iamlindoro:

yep

[04:05:31]

iamlindoro:

and cheaper

[04:05:50]

iamlindoro:

and available today

[04:05:52]

DarkDrgn2k:

... i swear.. all this copy protection is anoying... and i mean for LEGIT copies!

[04:07:35]

DarkDrgn2k:

ok REALLY supid question, but are softcams considered "ILLIGAL" if you have the subscription?

[04:07:48]

iamlindoro:

yes

[04:07:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

thought so.. pointless anyway...

[04:08:02]

wagnerrp:

ah, both types of outputs

[04:08:12]

RyeBrye:

Yeah, the same way that copying a DVD to your HD is considered illegal if you own the DVD

[04:08:15]

DarkDrgn2k:

i dont get to watch to much tv.. so if i set sometign to record.. it better record...

[04:08:18]

RyeBrye:

'cause you're breaking encryption

[04:08:31]

RyeBrye:

'cause Bill Clinton signed the DMCA

[04:08:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

...but that also breaks copyright laws...

[04:08:41]

DarkDrgn2k:

"fair use" clause

[04:08:54]

RyeBrye:

you would think.

[04:09:31]

DarkDrgn2k:

[04:09:33]

RyeBrye:

October 28th 1998... This year is the 10th anniversary of the DMCA

[04:10:00]

RyeBrye:

Yes, it's fair use to copy it – but it's illegal to decrypt it

[04:10:16]

iamlindoro:

exactly

[04:10:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

but the encrption acutaly violates my right to copy!!!

[04:10:28]

iamlindoro:

you can copy the encrypted image to your pc and use a licensed player to watch it

[04:10:33]

iamlindoro:

works fine

[04:10:36]

jblack:

RyeBrye: According to copyright, you own the DVD, not what's on it.

[04:10:47]

wagnerrp:

you can copy the encrypted data for backups till the cows come home

[04:10:53]

DarkDrgn2k:

umm

[04:11:00]

DarkDrgn2k:

you can actualy COPY encrypted data?

[04:11:08]

iamlindoro:

of course you can

[04:11:15]

DarkDrgn2k:

reallY? i never seen a program that coudl do that..

[04:11:19]

jblack:

DarkDrgn2k: Yeah, you've been able to copy DVDs for just about forever.

[04:11:21]

iamlindoro:

dd

[04:11:23]

DarkDrgn2k:

guess i never needed a program to do that :-P

[04:11:24]

iamlindoro:

man dd

[04:11:27]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[04:11:30]

DarkDrgn2k:

true

[04:11:31]

jblack:

DarkDrgn2k: Just mount it, and copy the files.There's a filesystem there.

[04:11:36]

iamlindoro:

dd if=/dev/dvd of=encryptediso.iso

[04:11:37]

wagnerrp:

its the mechanisms that try to corrupt your optical drive that violate your right to copy

[04:11:56]

RyeBrye:

which mechanisms?

[04:12:06]

DarkDrgn2k:

RyeBrye: i think he means like... bad blocks..

[04:12:09]

RyeBrye:

Ahh

[04:12:21]

wagnerrp:

exactly

[04:12:25]

DarkDrgn2k:

but that still doesnt fit Fair Use

[04:12:26]

RyeBrye:

Sony's copy protection crap bricked one of my crappy old DVD drives

[04:12:26]

jblack:

I thought he meant decryption via decss.

[04:12:34]

DarkDrgn2k:

fair use says i can copy a PICE of the pie.. not rhw whole thing!

[04:12:40]

wagnerrp:

things that (usually) dont cause problems for standalone players, but cause ROMs to break

[04:12:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: you mean like hidden root kits?

[04:13:02]

wagnerrp:

that too

[04:13:06]

wagnerrp:

although thats something else

[04:13:10]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[04:13:15]

jblack:

Isn't there an exception for education?

[04:13:25]

wagnerrp:

thats computer crime

[04:13:37]

wagnerrp:

someone should have gone to jail over that one

[04:13:47]

DarkDrgn2k:

jblack: um... you cant copy a WHOLE work w/o owners permission

[04:13:52]

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[04:13:57]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: yes.. but its sony.... they just through enougn money at it

[04:14:00]

jblack:

I think there's an exception for education.

[04:14:04]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: god help the kid that dithat..

[04:14:09]

RyeBrye:

I think you can for archiving or something

[04:14:13]

wagnerrp:

DarkDrgn2k: but you can copy a whole work w/o owners permission for personal use

[04:14:15]

DarkDrgn2k:

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

[04:14:33]

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[04:14:52]

RyeBrye:

The thing about digital distribution that really pisses me off is the DRM attached to it really screws with the whole first sale doctrine...

[04:14:53]

wagnerrp:

that has been legal by prior court cases since the VCRs first came out

[04:15:03]

RyeBrye:

if I buy a DVD, I can watch it and then sell it to someone else legally

[04:15:13]

RyeBrye:

but if I buy a movie off of iTunes, I can't resell it

[04:15:35]

jblack:

Yeah, it's part of the fair use provision. "The purpose and character of use....or is for nonprofit educational purposes."

[04:15:37]

DarkDrgn2k:

big corporations changin the way the game is played..

[04:15:57]

wagnerrp:

thats because there is no mechanism by which to prove you deleted all of your copies

[04:16:11]

wagnerrp:

so there is no way to prove it is not copyright infringement

[04:16:13]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: i though thats what the root kits are for!

[04:16:28]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: besides.. same deal with VCR.. no proof i didnt copy

[04:16:36]

wagnerrp:

of course they have no incentive to build the mechanism by which to allow you to resell

[04:16:48]

jblack:

RyeBrye: First sale doctrine, thanks to the DMCA, is not inalienable.

[04:16:54]

RyeBrye:

Yeah :(

[04:16:57]

wagnerrp:

thats just because they didnt have the technology to do so when VCRs came out

[04:17:23]

wagnerrp:

they would have peed their pants if they had DRM in the 60s

[04:17:24]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: sure they did... self destructing VCR tape.. watch ONCE only

[04:17:34]

wagnerrp:

of course macrovision was around to prevent you from copying VCRs

[04:17:37]

RyeBrye:

Macrovision

[04:17:40]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[04:17:48]

wagnerrp:

you had to have a special device to fix the timing signal

[04:17:52]

RyeBrye:

DMCA required it to be in every analog VCR

[04:17:59]

wagnerrp:

which... is just like the dvd-rippers of today

[04:18:01]

DarkDrgn2k:

i remember when DVDs came out... knew a guy at ATI that flashed his DVD rom to play multi region using a hidden menu...

[04:18:01]

jblack:

speaking of evil companies. EA is still being an ass. They're gonna do to RA-3 what they did to spore.

[04:18:08]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: what the hell are you talking about

[04:18:15]

wagnerrp:

macrovision was around 15 years before DMCA

[04:18:24]

RyeBrye:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA

[04:18:32]

RyeBrye:

It was irrelevant at that point, but it's in the DMCA

[04:18:43]

RyeBrye:

"The second portion is often known as the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions. These provisions changed the remedies for the circumvention of copy prevention systems (also called "technical protection measures") and required that all analog video recorders have support for a specific form of copy prevention commonly known as Macrovision built in, effectively giving Macrovision a monopoly on the analog video recording copy prevention market. "

[04:19:30]

wagnerrp:

they required Macrovision? or macrovision type technology

[04:19:32]

RyeBrye:

Hmm... I wonder... does that "analog video recorders" portion apply to analog capture cards?

[04:19:41]

wagnerrp:

because thats no longer patented, anyone can produce it

[04:19:46]

wagnerrp:

but the name is still trademarked

[04:19:59]

iamlindoro:

yes, analog tuner cards respect macrovision

[04:20:10]

RyeBrye:

HD-PVR?

[04:20:20]

DarkDrgn2k:

iamlindoro: they do????

[04:20:39]

wagnerrp:

i cant say ive ever actually tried to capture VCR output

[04:20:40]

iamlindoro:

RyeBrye, Uncertain on that one

[04:20:42]

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[04:20:51]

psm321:

hi everyone

[04:21:00]

DarkDrgn2k:

ive backed up stuff from VCR to DVD trhough capture card.. never had a problem

[04:21:04]

sloof3:

Could someone recommend a PCI-Express ATSC/NTSC tuner that works without too much trouble with MythTV? Bonus if it's a dual tuner. I wanted to use the HVR-2250 but the NTSC tuner doesn't appear to work according to the wiki.

[04:21:09]

iamlindoro:

RyeBrye, There *is* a macrovision type equivalent for component, so it stands to reason that it might

[04:21:34]

DarkDrgn2k:

what ever happed to BROADCAST television

[04:21:39]

iamlindoro:

DarkDrgn2k, Then you lucked out and one component or another didn't use it (or it wasn't on the tape, which is actually what activates it)

[04:21:44]

DarkDrgn2k:

thers enough commercials on tv.. and companies pay enough money for it!

[04:21:59]

psm321:

i'm sure this is already documented somewhere or another, but i just wanted to mention that doing a delete from program; followed by mythfilldatabase --refresh-all every once in a while seems to dramatically improve reschedule times (maybe optimize would do the same thing... i dont think i do that)

[04:22:16]

RyeBrye:

Yeah, optimize is great

[04:22:32]

psm321:

i'll have to start doing that

[04:22:51]

psm321:

my reschedule times were way up lately, to the point where shows were starting late because of it

[04:23:46]

wagnerrp:

on the HDF2, component output is still done over the DB15 port?

[04:24:13]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, yes, although it comes with the cable as I understand it

[04:24:22]

wagnerrp:

the kit does anyway

[04:24:43]

wagnerrp:

i managed to buy such a cable years ago, before i knew that they were different signals

[04:24:52]

DarkDrgn2k:

you guys think that IPTV is the way of the future...

[04:25:38]

wagnerrp:

i dont broadcast will last more than 20 years

[04:25:48]

wagnerrp:

but i dont consider IPTV to be the near future for most people

[04:26:09]

DarkDrgn2k:

new buildimg im moving into ... bell has installed somethign liek IPTV. call is "EXPRESS VU CONDO"

[04:26:32]

DarkDrgn2k:

trhey run fiber into the building.. then DSL to all the units..

[04:26:52]

wagnerrp:

thats shitty, why not just run CAT5?

[04:27:44]

wagnerrp:

i have to imagine the switching equipment and repeaters would be cheaper than DSLAMs and DSL modems for everyone

[04:27:53]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: donon.. the provide homephgone, digital tv and internet through it..

[04:28:08]

DarkDrgn2k:

but i heard that you can only push 1 hd channel trhough .

[04:28:35]

wagnerrp:

that depends on the speed

[04:29:03]

DarkDrgn2k:

i think they said 10

[04:29:08]

wagnerrp:

as well as the codec, and how much quality degredation is allowable

[04:29:09]

DarkDrgn2k:

mbs

[04:29:23]

DarkDrgn2k:

yeh realt satalite has a hight quality then cable. thats for sure

[04:29:43]

iamlindoro:

That's a blanket statement that is false and ignorant

[04:30:02]

wagnerrp:

thats how much internet bandwidth you are allowed, but that doesnt mean their video system doesnt run much hotter than that

[04:30:11]

RyeBrye:

Satellite is almost always recompressed

[04:30:19]

RyeBrye:

Comcast cable is also

[04:30:34]

iamlindoro:

But get the *right* cable company, and you can enjoy better looking material than anywhere

[04:30:34]

wagnerrp:

over the ranges youre talking about, you can crank DSL up to hundreds of mbps

[04:30:51]

DarkDrgn2k:

wagnerrp: i think its 10 for video 10 for everythign else

[04:31:00]

DarkDrgn2k:

8 intenret and 2 phone.. or osmething ilke that..

[04:31:01]

DarkDrgn2k:

i donno

[04:31:10]

wagnerrp:

well 10 for video, i would hope they dont run more than one HD channel

[04:31:14]

iamlindoro:

I'm sure it's not 2 Mbit phone

[04:31:20]

DarkDrgn2k:

the only cable company around here (rogers) really sux

[04:31:27]

wagnerrp:

phone might be 64kbps at the most

[04:31:28]

DarkDrgn2k:

customer services stinks... programing really stinks

[04:32:11]

strex-work:

what is the remote control port used by mythbackend by default?

[04:32:35]

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[04:32:41]

DarkDrgn2k:

strex-work: waa?

[04:32:42]

wagnerrp:

one up from the communications port

[04:32:49]

wagnerrp:

6544

[04:32:52]

DarkDrgn2k:

oo

[04:32:52]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[04:33:09]

strex-work:

wagnerrp thanks

[04:33:10]

wagnerrp:

DarkDrgn2k: mythtv has a telnet interface

[04:33:26]

DarkDrgn2k:

yes..

[04:33:32]

DarkDrgn2k:

i was thinkign port as in IR port..

[04:33:39]

DarkDrgn2k:

not tcp

[04:35:15]

wagnerrp:

err... apperently 6546

[04:35:51]

strex-work:

so why would it be refusing a connection, (no the FW is off).

[04:36:08]

iamlindoro:

because the telnet interface controls the frontend, not the backend

[04:36:23]

strex-work:

lol, good reason..

[04:36:28]

iamlindoro:

so if the frontend isn't running, ain't nothing gonna happen

[04:36:40]

DarkDrgn2k:

lol

[04:36:40]

wagnerrp:

6543 is the data/interface port, 6544 is the http backend status, 6545 is...?

[04:37:25]

mzb_d800:

I'm having a devil of a time trying to shutdown from the FE. Shutdown from a terminal works (as user), but not from any method within X. I assume this is a known issue?

[04:37:39]

wagnerrp:

6545 seems to be for the lcd server

[04:38:22]

cesman:

mzb_d800: known issue to what?

[04:38:41]

mzb_d800:

shutting down the box

[04:38:41]

cesman:

shutdowning has nothing to do w/ MythTV

[04:38:42]

strex-work:

iamlindoro are the settings for a FE only box stored in the BE's sql db?

[04:38:55]

strex-work:

mzb_d800 probably a permissions issue..

[04:38:56]

wagnerrp:

6547 is something

[04:38:56]

iamlindoro:

strex-work, yes

[04:39:03]

mzb_d800:

cesman: it is if it's a feature that mythtv expects to work!

[04:39:11]

mzb_d800:

strex-work: yes, I assume so

[04:39:23]

wagnerrp:

upnp access port?

[04:39:25]

strex-work:

iamlindoro thanks.

[04:39:30]

iamlindoro:

no prob

[04:39:35]

cesman:

shutting down has nothing to do w/ MythTV

[04:40:00]

mzb_d800:

I added the following (which helps with using firestarter on ubuntu) to sudoers: Defaults !lecture,tty_tickets,!fqdn,env_reset,env_keep+="DISPLAY HOME XAUTHORIZATION"

[04:40:05]

cesman:

it is up to _you_ to ensure sudoers is setup appropriately and you configure MythTV appropriately

[04:40:27]

mzb_d800:

cesman: if you read my first comment, you'd have already realised that I've done that

[04:40:47]

cesman:

ok

[04:40:49]

strex-work:

mzb_d800 is this a Frontend only box, or a FE/BE box?

[04:40:53]

mzb_d800:

both

[04:41:01]

** cesman has more import fish to fry **

[04:41:21]

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[04:41:31]

mzb_d800:

I also tried a script which sets init, stops BE, stops mysql, sync's ... etc

[04:41:33]

strex-work:

mzb_d800 what user is running mythfrontend, and what groups is that user a member of?

[04:41:41]

mzb_d800:

mythtv:mythtv

[04:42:15]

strex-work:

last time I checked 'shutdown' isn't a member of that group.. :p

[04:42:16]

mzb_d800:

sudoers: mythtv ALL=NOPASSWD:ALL

[04:42:26]

mzb_d800:

;)

[04:42:29]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[04:42:40]

strex-work:

can you login as mythtv and run sudo 'command'.

[04:43:13]

mzb_d800:

in X, from terminal, or remotely?

[04:43:19]

strex-work:

don't matter

[04:43:41]

strex-work:

just testing if sudo is working for that user..

[04:43:53]

mzb_d800:

mythtv@SpiliopTV:~$ sudo date

[04:43:53]

mzb_d800:

Tue Sep 23 14:43:44 EST 2008

[04:44:32]

strex-work:

assuming your not recording anything, ssh in and su to mythtv user, then run 'sudo shutdown -r' or something..

[04:46:27]

mzb_d800:

http://fastpaste.net/823

[04:46:49]

mzb_d800:

(from being desperate)

[04:47:27]

mzb_d800:

reboot from ssh as mythtv@ works fine

[04:47:50]

mzb_d800:

reboot from xterm or FE does not

[04:48:11]

cesman:

you need to logout of X and back in

[04:48:21]

cesman:

if you've not done so

[04:49:06]

mzb_d800:

I restart for most of the tests

[04:49:20]

mzb_d800:

as an attempt to shutdown usually locks the machine

[04:49:37]

mzb_d800:

(when done in that manner)

[04:50:18]

strex-work:

mzb_d800 from within mythtv under setup, what do you have set for the mythtv shutdown command?

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[04:50:29]

mzb_d800:

myshutdown

[04:50:36]

mzb_d800:

(script)

[04:50:46]

mzb_d800:

and myreboot

[04:50:56]

mzb_d800:

(again out of desperation)

[04:51:01]

strex-work:

mzb_d800 test it by putting 'sudo shutdown -h now' in there..

[04:51:13]

mzb_d800:

k

[04:52:33]

strex-work:

Are the settings for mythwelcome stored in the sql db also, or are they elsewhere?

[04:53:25]

wagnerrp:

im guessing its just in the settings table

[04:53:54]

strex-work:

I would assume so also, but I'm not finding it..

[04:56:04]

mzb_d800:

that'd be right ... working now ... time to throw away the desperation script ... thanks strex-work

[04:56:15]

strex-work:

n/p

[05:02:23]

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[05:12:51]

HaSH:

hello all. i have 2 jobs in cue...how can i make the start? the 1st one says its a commercial flag job....from a show that recorded 4 hours ago...the second is a transcode jobi just scheduled

[05:15:27]

cesman:

Info Center > System Status > Job Queue

[05:15:31]

cesman:

the press 'm'

[05:15:46]

cesman:

this should pop up a menu asking about requeue the job

[05:16:17]

HaSH:

ah ok. thanks!

[05:21:19]

cesman:

you're welcome

[05:29:14]

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[06:03:54]

HaSH:

hmm ok so i have 2 jobs in cue...the 1st one says finished..but the 2nd one still says cued......

[06:05:23]

HaSH:

any reason the 2nd job(the one i want to test to make sure it works well) wont start?.

[06:07:14]

wagnerrp:

check the logs, see if it says anything

[06:08:38]

HaSH:

i did...i didnt see anything

[06:08:41]

HaSH:

but ill recheck them

[06:10:33]

HaSH:

i dont see anything in the logs about that job

[06:10:56]

HaSH:

doing a search for "job" i only see things like this:

[06:10:57]

HaSH:

2008-09–23 01:12:36.034 JobQueue: Commercial Flagging Starting for Locked Up Abroad "Uganda" recorded from channel 1120 at Mon Sep 22 20:59:00 2008

[06:13:55]

HaSH:

it says the 1st job is finished.....should it still be in the job cue if its done?.

[06:16:11]

cesman:

yes

[06:16:20]

cesman:

it will go away on it's own

[06:16:36]

HaSH:

hmm i just wanna make the 2nd job in sure start

[06:19:59]

RyeBrye:

queue – it's more fun to type than cue

[06:20:23]

HaSH:

lol

[06:20:57]

RyeBrye:

try typing it five times fast. queue queue queue queue queue (no cheating with copy and paste, either!)

[06:20:58]

HaSH:

well im trying to test for it to convert a recording to xvid.....set it up over a hour ago...and its still not started....

[06:21:20]

HaSH:

how often do the jobs run?

[06:21:23]

RyeBrye:

I remember hearing something about how transcode profiles behaved in odd ways

[06:21:58]

RyeBrye:

something like you have to edit an existing one, and that if you create a new one it wont work – somoene else knows better than I do

[06:22:09]

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[06:22:17]

HaSH:

im following this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=346778

[06:22:29]

HaSH:

installed everything i need.....then set up 3 jobs in mythtv-setup

[06:22:55]

HaSH:

i then selected a recording then selected to run the one of the jobs i set up.

[06:23:25]

HaSH:

its in the jobs queue...it just will not run.

[06:24:00]

amrit:

hi folks. got a question to paste (accidentally asked in #mythtv earlier...):

[06:24:14]

amrit:

i suddenly have no configured cards, and in running mythtv-setup i continually get the error: Unknown column 'parentid' in 'where clause'

[06:24:18]

amrit:

google suggested rebuilding after distclean to force a schema upgrade, but that didn't help (this install was working for the last few months anyway)

[06:24:21]

amrit:

is also tried mysqlcheck, to no avail. at this point i can't list any cards, and when i attempt to add any they also don't show up in the list

[06:24:48]

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[06:24:56]

RyeBrye:

that sucks

[06:25:30]

RyeBrye:

there are some scripts in the contrib directory if you are building from source that maybe could help – I've never used them

[06:25:43]

RyeBrye:

but after hearing that, I'm going to be sure to backup my DB before I do updates now

[06:26:11]

amrit:

RyeBrye: well, that's the annoying part – no update was done in recent times prior to this failure...

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[06:26:26]

RyeBrye:

strange

[06:26:31]

RyeBrye:

does mythweb work?

[06:26:50]

RyeBrye:

there is a 'repair database' thing in there that might work – I don't know what kind of black magic it has shoved up in there

[06:27:22]

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[06:27:30]

amrit:

i've never used mythweb at all, actually... but from the myth docs, my guess is that that 'repair database' there just does the mysqlcheck thing, which didn't make a different

[06:27:34]

amrit:

*difference

[06:28:27]

RyeBrye:

hm

[06:28:39]

RyeBrye:

I use mythweb exclusively for lots of stuff

[06:28:46]

RyeBrye:

like scheduling

[06:29:15]

RyeBrye:

seems like most people that might know what to do to fix it are asleep or away right now, you might want to post to the user group

[06:30:16]

** amrit nods **

[06:30:21]

amrit:

i understand that :)

[06:30:32]

wagnerrp:

check google for the manual database repair operations

[06:30:52]

amrit:

i'll lurk here for a couple of days, if nothing comes up i'll set aside some time to ask via a proper forum post :)

[06:30:55]

amrit:

wagnerrp: oh, manual?

[06:31:42]

wagnerrp:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/repair.html

[06:32:02]

wagnerrp:

its all pretty automatic, you just run a few commands (if that is indeed the problem)

[06:32:14]

RyeBrye:

I think every part on a computer has a higher priced "gamer" version.... Check this out... http://www.killernic.com/default.aspx?gclid=C . . . IcawodqEsueQ

[06:32:18]

RyeBrye:

GAMER NIC

[06:33:08]

amrit:

cool. let me try myisamcheck..

[06:33:26]

RyeBrye:

Do you plug that into your gamer router, and then have it connect to your gamer internet?

[06:33:40]

HaSH:

hmm ok i now got the job to run..i needed to enable it in the mythtv-setup...but the job is erroring out

[06:34:14]

HaSH:

its saying: http://pastebin.com/m70e3d8cd

[06:34:56]

HaSH:

the "Convert To XVID Best Quality" is simply this: nuvexport-xvid --mencoder --quantisation 1 --a_bitrate 192 --v_bitrate 5000 --nice 10 --input="%FILE%"

[06:37:37]

cesman:

"Compilation failed in require at /usr/bin/nuvexport-xvid line 36."

[06:37:42]

cesman:

seems to be the problem

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[06:38:57]

HaSH:

hmm

[06:39:09]

HaSH:

the same command works when run as a normal user on the system

[06:42:09]

amrit:

wagnerrp: so i did the myisamchk -e thing, and did a myisamchk -r -q on every table that it complained about – that made all the errors go away from -e, but unfort this has made no different with mythtv-setup.

[06:42:34]

wagnerrp:

no idea

[06:45:13]

amrit:

darn

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[08:14:51]

tsukasa:

hey

[08:14:55]

tsukasa:

anyone around?

[08:15:21]

tsukasa:

i need some help, mythfrontend is all screwy, its not even legible the graphics are messed up

[08:16:09]

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[08:16:14]

directhex:

ati graphics card?

[08:16:37]

tsukasa:

yes

[08:17:30]

tsukasa:

directhex: please tell me theres an easy fix

[08:17:44]

directhex:

upgrade or downgrade your driver

[08:17:52]

directhex:

8.3 is known not to cause that issue

[08:17:53]

tsukasa:

im at 8.8

[08:17:57]

tsukasa:

er

[08:18:11]

tsukasa:

latest as of mid august

[08:18:14]

tsukasa:

which is...

[08:18:22]

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[08:18:23]

mchou:

ati made a driver that works??

[08:18:30]

tsukasa:

yeah 8.8

[08:18:31]

mchou:

wow

[08:19:05]

mchou:

tsukasa: I thought you said your graphics are all messed up

[08:19:28]

tsukasa:

mchou: it works for everything else. mplayer works fine with gl output no tearing, i have xv, etc etc

[08:19:34]

tsukasa:

mchou: just mythfrontend

[08:20:12]

tsukasa:

its like ripped diagonally so the text is scattered everywhere, like a bad resolution

[08:20:35]

tsukasa:

it might be fine windowed if i could get it like that

[08:20:35]

mchou:

what's the source material?

[08:20:45]

tsukasa:

the gui itself

[08:20:48]

tsukasa:

first launch

[08:20:57]

mchou:

the skin?

[08:21:02]

mchou:

not even tv?

[08:21:24]

tsukasa:

its an apt-get install mythbuntu-desktop ontop of an ubuntu installation

[08:21:38]

tsukasa:

ran the frontend, graphics fucked up first screen

[08:21:43]

mchou:

haha

[08:21:57]

mchou:

that's the driver all right. that's not myth

[08:22:26]

mchou:

I though you were talling about "TV" or something

[08:22:31]

mchou:

talking*

[08:22:32]

tsukasa:

mchou: is there a switch i shouldnt be setting in xorg perhaps?

[08:22:35]

tsukasa:

or something.

[08:22:55]

mchou:

yeah, the switch is to get rid of POS ati

[08:22:59]

tsukasa:

or can i set the frontend to use gl

[08:23:03]

tsukasa:

ati isnt that bad

[08:23:41]

mchou:

tsukasa: you're the one having issues

[08:24:13]

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[08:24:23]

tsukasa:

mchou: yeah, yeah. anyways, can i make the frontend render with something different?

[08:24:43]

directhex:

you can display the gui with qt or opengl

[08:24:56]

tsukasa:

how can i switch between the two?

[08:25:00]

tsukasa:

without using the frontend

[08:25:09]

directhex:

to change it on the commandline, use -o ThemePainter=qt

[08:25:16]

directhex:

or -o ThemePainter=gl

[08:25:25]

directhex:

your problem tends to happen with qt, if memory serves

[08:25:38]

directhex:

sorry, opengl, not gl

[08:26:22]

directhex:

within mythfrontend, try looking in Utilities/Settings > Settings > Appearance to change it permanently

[08:26:36]

tsukasa:

mythfrontend -o ThemePainter=opengl or qt yields the same results

[08:26:51]

mchou:

ouch

[08:27:12]

tsukasa:

okay, this has to be my xorg

[08:28:24]

tsukasa:

i have videooverlay on, ignoreedid off, opengloverlay on, texturedvideo on, texturedvideosync on, usefasttls 2, xaanooffscreenpixmaps

[08:28:29]

tsukasa:

any of that look bad?

[08:29:30]

directhex:

can you check to make sure it's definitely changing which painter it uses?

[08:29:31]

tsukasa:

and is there a commandline switch to set the windowed resolution of the front end

[08:29:37]

directhex:

i think it might be case sensitive

[08:29:38]

tsukasa:

sure, how?

[08:29:45]

directhex:

just read the output in the console

[08:31:14]

tsukasa:

oh yeah, still using qt

[08:32:06]

mryanbrown:

http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/m2e81c42f it seems the only real error now is ERROR: no valid capture cards are defined in the database. which is lies! any thoughts?

[08:32:42]

directhex:

try spelling it OpenGL? like i said, working from memory

[08:33:07]

tsukasa:

nope

[08:35:22]

tsukasa:

directhex: its okay, i got it via sshing from my macbook, ill configure it like this then switch to opengl from the gui

[08:36:00]

tsukasa:

thanks though

[08:38:15]

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[08:44:46]

laga:

those "More Doctors Smoke Camels Than Any Other Cigarette" videos on youtube are hilarious

[08:46:47]

directhex:

laga, how about the "mommy, smoke some marlboro instead of telling me off" posters?

[08:47:24]

directhex:

http://www.blatherwincerepeat.com/wp-content/ . . . cig-ad-3.jpg

[08:48:08]

directhex:

http://www.blatherwincerepeat.com/wp-content/ . . . cig-ad-4.jpg

[08:50:53]

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[08:51:25]

mryanbrown:

more doctors prefer smoking coke

[08:52:12]

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[08:53:52]

mryanbrown:

ERROR: no valid capture cards are defined in the database.

[08:54:00]

mryanbrown:

HOW TO FIX IN MARGARITAVILLE!?

[08:54:53]

directhex:

are valid capture cards defined in the database?

[08:55:03]

mryanbrown:

yea

[08:55:08]

mryanbrown:

i created a firewire set-top

[08:55:26]

directhex:

any weirdness e.g. hostnames set to something retarded like "localhost"?

[08:55:49]

mryanbrown:

probably the latter

[08:55:57]

mryanbrown:

whats retarded about not running a domain

[08:56:42]

directhex:

the database stores setting per-hostname

[08:57:01]

mryanbrown:

ok so if im running solely for this pc

[08:57:04]

mryanbrown:

whats bad about that

[08:57:43]

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[09:01:50]

btQuark:

hi there all

[09:02:20]

btQuark:

i've got some question on mythtv and the record more-than-one-program from the same transponder at a time feature

[09:03:00]

btQuark:

do i have to do anything to make use of it, or will mythtv just be able to record more stuff at the same time?

[09:03:09]

justinh:

btQuark: the default setting in mythtv-setup for each dvb tuner card is to allow 2 recordings per transponder/multiplex. If you'd like it to be able to record more, go into the 'advanced' setup option in 'capture card setup' within mythtv-setup. All this assumes you're running mythtv 0.21

[09:03:35]

btQuark:

its .21 yup

[09:04:07]

justinh:

the maximum you can set the number to is 5 simultaneous recordings per tuner. That was set as a sensible (though very cautious) maximum and is easily changed in the source

[09:04:17]

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[09:04:26]

btQuark:

hmk, so i could put it to three if i would like to record 3 programmings at the same time from the same transponder

[09:04:33]

justinh:

yep

[09:04:36]

btQuark:

hm, sounds good.

[09:04:46]

btQuark:

thanks :)

[09:05:04]

justinh:

and no, you don't really have to pay any special attention to anything when you schedule your recordings. If simultaneous recordings are possible they should just happen

[09:05:17]

btQuark:

yay :D

[09:06:05]

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[09:06:23]

btQuark:

i recently tried to reorder the tv programs (dvb-s provides me with literally hundreds of channels, >50% unwanted (homeshopping et al) and ended up doing it with phpmyadmin the hard way

[09:06:30]

btQuark:

is there any way it is meant to be?

[09:06:50]

btQuark:

if not i'ld probably end up creating some web interface for drag&drop reordering

[09:07:18]

justinh:

mythtv isn't really geared for lineups of hundreds of channels just yet

[09:07:57]

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[09:08:00]

btQuark:

k, so reordering them by hand or some small program would be the way to go

[09:09:20]

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[09:25:42]

** justinh wonders who these Taiwanese jokers are who told our purchasing dept this PSU was quiet. 55dBA @ 1 metre is NOT quiet **

[09:27:58]

btQuark:

what the

[09:28:01]

btQuark:

55dbA?

[09:28:23]

btQuark:

i suggest you put that at the window of your superiors office

[09:28:29]

btQuark:

the exhaust

[09:28:29]

justinh:

lol

[09:28:46]

justinh:

I've heard quieter travel hairdryers

[09:28:56]

btQuark:

muaha

[09:29:09]

btQuark:

maybe its just a fscked fan that needs replacement

[09:29:16]

justinh:

it's brand new!

[09:29:42]

justinh:

and it's 2dB louder than the last PSU they sent us for approval

[09:29:51]

btQuark:

i have a brandnew htpc psu here and its fucking loud too

[09:30:14]

justinh:

then again, quiet 1U 500W PSU design must be a pretty tall order

[09:30:16]

btQuark:

uhm. even louder and marketed to be quieter...

[09:30:27]

btQuark:

think so

[09:30:52]

btQuark:

the 1u dell boxes here are also insanely loud when they start up

[09:31:15]

justinh:

they don't have any kind of speed control either, so I think we'll be sticking with the FSP model for the time being

[09:31:15]

btQuark:

always remembers me of starting jet engines

[09:31:45]

btQuark:

ew. without speed control. at least the dell ones have something like that

[09:32:29]

btQuark:

well my condolence for those psus then...

[09:33:14]

** btQuark is gone, enjoy **

[09:35:32]

justinh:

heh

[09:43:41]

Dibblah:

... Doesn't FSP make Sparkle PSUs? ;)

[09:44:15]

Dibblah:

The epitome of quality.

[09:44:41]

directhex:

yes

[09:44:43]

justinh:

they do the job. not heard of any ongoing reliability issues with them

[09:44:52]

directhex:

but there are infinitely worse psu brands

[09:45:03]

directhex:

fsp manufacture well-regarded supplies like ocz

[09:45:37]

Dibblah:

Whoever makes the Gigabyte PSUs needs a swift hard kick in the nads.

[09:45:57]

Dibblah:

550w PSU. Won't work at all on a system drawing only 58w.

[09:46:11]

Dibblah:

Add a second HD, works OK. Grr.

[09:46:27]

directhex:

in-house apparently

[09:46:38]

Dibblah:

Yeah, that makes sense.

[09:46:43]

justinh:

oh. SMPSU having a minimum load requirement? :-O

[09:46:51]

justinh:

shock, horror!!!!!!!!!!!!

[09:47:19]

Dibblah:

It has in-built "overvoltage" tuning.

[09:47:26]

Dibblah:

Via a USB interface.

[09:47:37]

Dibblah:

And of course, no way to reset to defaults.

[09:47:50]

directhex:

justinh, i've run a psu where the only load is a 12cm fan, without it refusing to work

[09:48:00]

justinh:

directhex: depends very much on the PSU design

[09:48:05]

Dibblah:

Most well designed PSUs will scale.

[09:48:14]

justinh:

minimum load requirements are easy enough to design out, but cost $

[09:48:58]

justinh:

it's just churlish to assume a given PSU is suitable for a job just because of the wattage label stuck on it

[09:49:40]

directhex:

especially given qtec

[09:49:47]

Dibblah:

It's also stupid not to state – In the manual or on the spec plate – what the minimum is.

[09:50:05]

directhex:

qtec have a lovely strategy where they rate a power supply based on the peak potential for each individual rail

[09:50:12]

directhex:

even though they use a single-rail design

[09:50:20]

justinh:

if I wanted a very good PSU I wouldn't buy one from a manufacturer who doesn't make a proper spec sheet available

[09:50:32]

directhex:

so peak 5v plus peak 12v plus peak 3.3v makes... 550W!

[09:50:49]

directhex:

know what happens if you ask a qtec to DELIVER what it says on the tin?

[09:50:56]

directhex:

it explodes, or sets on fire

[09:51:24]

justinh:

let the customer beware

[09:51:54]

justinh:

hmmm.. here's a 1000W PSU & it's only £5. the other 1000W PSU here is like £100...

[09:52:04]

justinh:

.... ponder....

[09:52:46]

justinh:

and this is a PSU from somebody I've never heard of, 500W apparently – but wait – it's like a tenth of the price of a lesser wattage PSU from a manufacturer I've read good things about... I wonder...

[09:52:56]

justinh:

DUH

[09:53:06]

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[09:53:13]

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[09:53:19]

directhex:

http://img.hexus.net/v2/psu/taoyuan_34_2005/images/lol.avi&nb sp;– ask a 650W qtec for 400W of output power...

[09:53:53]

sid3windr:

qtec .. :>

[09:54:36]

directhex:

that's the input voltage & wattage, for the curious

[09:54:42]

directhex:

on the display

[09:54:47]

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[09:54:48]

sid3windr:

ah

[09:54:51]

sid3windr:

I was wondering already ;)

[09:55:04]

sid3windr:

so 400W output power the psu takes 900+ of input?

[09:55:12]

directhex:

it exploded shortly afterwards

[09:55:22]

sid3windr:

why wasnt that on film!

[09:55:53]

justinh:

as efficient as 40% ? wow

[09:56:00]

directhex:

because the guy filming had to step back to avoid the whole "exploding psu" thing

[09:56:12]

justinh:

H&S issues abound ;)

[09:56:44]

directhex:

justinh, this was in taipei. health & safety? ;)

[09:57:00]

justinh:

hahaha

[09:57:22]

justinh:

I used to test & repair SMPSUs for a living. don't talk to me about exploding stuff

[09:58:44]

justinh:

products using a clutch of different dc-dc converter blocks with the same footprint. if stores got any mixed up you could have a 28V input model in situ on a board designed for a 300VDC model :-\

[10:00:17]

justinh:

believe it or not, those sealed, totally potted converters can actually have stuff spewing out of them – and when they do you really need to be out of the way fast

[10:02:11]

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[10:20:36]

gbee:

heh, some idiot has listed the production year for 2001 – A Space Odessy, as 2001

[10:21:13]

sid3windr:

hahaha

[10:21:31]

gbee:

typo of Odyssey is theirs, not mine

[10:21:52]

justinh:

omdb.com ?

[10:22:55]

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[10:25:49]

gbee:

no, freedb originally maybe, 2001 soundtrack – mp3 of

[10:26:18]

gbee:

of course the track in question is a great deal older than the film

[10:26:31]

justinh:

I get so pissed off with freedb typos & other mistakes. next time I re-rip all my music I'll be doing all the tagging myself

[10:26:55]

justinh:

you want a job doing properly, do it yourself :)

[10:27:24]

justinh:

name, the – _really_ gets on my tits

[10:28:01]

justinh:

or maybe it's more the way they get mixed up that really bugs me. decide on one format & stick to it

[10:28:46]

gbee:

I tend to fix up freedb typos/mistakes before actually ripping

[10:31:01]

gbee:

I've even submitted corrections back to freedb a couple of times

[10:31:21]

justinh:

I gave up on that – the programs I used before always ballsed it up

[10:31:24]

gbee:

something I might do more if mythmusic supported submission to the db

[10:31:56]

justinh:

I put all my details in yet it still wouldn't let me submit corrections so I thought to hell with it

[10:37:14]

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[10:46:49]

justinh:

eh? planning the dept. xmas night out already? christ

[10:47:43]

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[10:55:58]

gbee:

planning Christmas, putting up decorations, having christmas sales or advertising this early in the year should be illegal and punishable by beatings with candy canes and satsuma filled stockings

[10:58:02]

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[10:59:14]

justinh:

hey some people might enjoy that :P

[11:00:09]

Dibblah:

4 days for a parcel to get from NY to NJ. Sheesh.

[11:00:42]

justinh:

need it in a hurry? do it yerself!

[11:00:46]

Dibblah:

Now it's got to go international – By that timescale, I should have it by the Olympics.

[11:01:56]

** Dibblah wants to do an unconventional thing with Storage Groups. **

[11:03:02]

Dibblah:

1 directory, where all new recordings go. 5 directories where the older recordings are 'archived'.

[11:03:15]

Dibblah:

(spun down)

[11:03:23]

sebrock:

So now I'm at my final issue with MythWeb, streaming music... I'm able to download a playlist but then it stops. VLC says no suitable access module and errorlog says: "Digest: client used wrong authentication scheme `Basic'". I have tried setting it up with "Basic" authentication in order to be compatible with the most players. So mythweb/music/stream is set up as basic and mythweb is set up as Digest. Is it maybe not possible to

[11:03:23]

sebrock:

use a different scheme inside the root mythweb directory?

[11:03:27]

Dibblah:

But it looks to me like SGs can't work for it.

[11:04:01]

Dibblah:

Not without a fair amount of scripting behind, at least.

[11:07:23]

justinh:

mythvideo instead?

[11:08:54]

gbee:

Dibblah: you want the older recordings archived automatically?

[11:09:05]

Dibblah:

Yes, sort-of.

[11:09:21]

justinh:

that's a user job script there could easily be an example of

[11:09:31]

Dibblah:

I have a small 4 drive RAID10 array, which is always spinning.

[11:09:46]

Dibblah:

And 5 750Gb drives which are spun-down.

[11:10:34]

Dibblah:

SGs make this difficult, since they don't store the physical location of the recording.

[11:10:51]

justinh:

don't they?

[11:11:09]

Dibblah:

So, to access a recording, potentially all 5 drives get spun up, with the delays inherent in that.

[11:11:09]

gbee:

a simple user script might just work, script moves file to new location and changes the storage group id in the recorded table

[11:11:17]

gbee:

the archive location is a seperate storage group

[11:11:28]

gbee:

Dibblah: ahh true

[11:11:57]

gbee:

could make it 5 seperate storage groups, but that has it's own downsides

[11:12:01]

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[11:12:08]

Dibblah:

Yup.

[11:12:20]

justinh:

mythvideo sounds like the best bet for now – though that has its limitations too

[11:12:32]

Dibblah:

It's not traditional "archiving"

[11:12:42]

Dibblah:

It's just preserving space on the recording drive.

[11:12:48]

Dibblah:

Which is only 100Gb.

[11:12:49]

gbee:

justinh: no, just stores the group id – the group lists possible storage locations but we have to search each location in turn to 'find' the file

[11:13:05]

Dibblah:

ISTR, it even doesn't trust that.

[11:13:15]

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[11:13:18]

Dibblah:

If it's not found in one SG, it's searched for in all.

[11:13:37]

justinh:

so what's the problem is the SG is known?

[11:13:41]

Dibblah:

The SG column is just a hint.

[11:13:52]

Dibblah:

10 seconds to spin up each disk.

[11:13:55]

gbee:

Dibblah: yeah, but it should only do that as a fallback so in most cases that won't add to the delay

[11:14:08]

Dibblah:

So 50 seconds to start viewing a recording.

[11:14:19]

Dibblah:

Since the GF grumbles at 10 seconds...

[11:14:23]

gbee:

since the recording should be in the storage group lists

[11:14:28]

Dibblah:

I don't think that would be a good idea.

[11:14:29]

justinh:

I don't get it

[11:14:34]

gbee:

s/lists/listed/

[11:14:53]

justinh:

myth will know where it is, if you moved it, you tell it where you moved it – it shouldn't have to search for it

[11:14:56]

Dibblah:

The actual path of each recording is not stored in Myth.

[11:15:11]

Dibblah:

It's _just_ storagegroup and basename.

[11:15:18]

gbee:

Dibblah: I was thinking about making it cache the last known location in the old path column – basename or something, which would save time

[11:15:35]

Dibblah:

basename is used.

[11:15:42]

Dibblah:

mythrename & friends.

[11:15:51]

Dibblah:

Which I guess I could use.

[11:15:59]

gbee:

umm, I'll have to refresh my memory

[11:16:30]

Dibblah:

One of the things that I don't like about SGs is that there is no way to say 'has x space available, y used'.

[11:16:37]

justinh:

I still can't see the problem in using SGs, if your user job updates the SG field correctly

[11:16:53]

Dibblah:

If each drive is a SG, then yes.

[11:17:01]

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[11:17:05]

gbee:

iirc we try basename first, then the storage group – since we don't want to undermine the benefits of the storage group it makes sense that if recording is not found at the basename path we should update basename once it's found somewhere in the storage group

[11:17:19]

Dibblah:

basename is just the bare name of the recording.

[11:17:49]

Dibblah:

It's not the directory.

[11:17:59]

gbee:

well for the sake of avoiding confusion, lets call it a new column – path

[11:18:35]

gbee:

Dibblah: I can't remember the schema completely ;)

[11:18:43]

Dibblah:

Sure – No problem.

[11:19:19]

Dibblah:

I'm looking through the code / schema at the moment – So it's fresh in my mind.

[11:19:55]

justinh:

I'm surprised clever doesn't have an answer to your problem Dibblah – he's probably got a 500GB USB disk made out of keyfobs & hubs

[11:20:08]

Dibblah:

I considered the keyfobs idea.

[11:20:20]

Dibblah:

But eventually went with laptop HDs instead.

[11:20:40]

** directhex is eximited about his new work laptop, on order **

[11:21:15]

Dibblah:

Heh. Completely against their designed uses, of course. Workstation drives == spundown, laptop drives == constantly spinning :)

[11:21:15]

justinh:

there's the incontrivertible thing going on in my head – where you can either have nice fast shiny things, or low power things. If you want your HDDs spun down, you have to wait for access

[11:21:45]

Dibblah:

Sure – I understand that. But the SG design precludes this use-case.

[11:21:57]

Dibblah:

So I'm seeing how it's possible to fix that.

[11:22:00]

Dibblah:

If I can. :(

[11:22:25]

Dibblah:

The spin-up wait isn't that much of an issue.

[11:22:37]

Dibblah:

Unless multiple spindles are involved.

[11:23:17]

justinh:

are you doing this for HD life preservation or power saving or ?

[11:23:23]

Dibblah:

Power saving.

[11:23:24]

justinh:

not scoffing, just curious

[11:23:49]

Dibblah:

12w / drive, when they're utilised at 5% doesn't make much sense.

[11:24:24]

justinh:

yeah I figured I could save about 45W during the day

[11:24:25]

Dibblah:

Spinup cost is about 18w seconds additional.

[11:25:14]

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[11:25:18]

justinh:

maybe I should spin down my recording drive & media shares. I'm not actually using them right now

[11:25:41]

justinh:

>20W<25W is still a saving innit

[11:26:33]

Dibblah:

I don't get the symbols...

[11:26:53]

justinh:

more than 20W, less than 25W :)

[11:26:53]

Dibblah:

I just use hdparm.

[11:26:57]

Dibblah:

Ah, right.

[11:27:47]

gbee:

still think the path caching idea is best, solves other slowdowns if not this issue entirely

[11:28:25]

justinh:

time to hit google to find suitable specs then

[11:29:01]

Dibblah:

gbee: Yup.

[11:29:14]

Dibblah:

But I don't like adding columns to recorded

[11:29:14]

gbee:

very easy to add too

[11:29:47]

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[11:29:49]

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[11:30:12]

Dibblah:

... I don't think you can get much further away from normalised than mythconverg, but that's taking it the wrong way.

[11:30:54]

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[11:31:18]

gbee:

mythconverg could use normalising, but in the past Chutt has said he doesn't like it

[11:31:46]

justinh:

some of the stuff in the db just seems saft to me

[11:31:48]

sebrock:

does anyone know if its possible with recursive authentication in Apache? Mythweb root has digest and music/stream has basic?

[11:31:48]

justinh:

*daft

[11:31:49]

Dibblah:

I can see why – It means that you need custom queries.

[11:31:56]

directhex:

how does mythconverg manage to be 90 tables yet not be normalised>?

[11:32:05]

Dibblah:

... to troubleshoot simple issues.

[11:32:22]

justinh:

Dibblah: mythvideo tables, for example </shudder>

[11:32:45]

Dibblah:

directhex: Easy.

[11:32:56]

gbee:

directhex: some stuff is normalised – e.g. mythmusic, other tables are just redundant and might actually disappear if things were normalised

[11:32:56]

Dibblah:

Firstly, it wasn't designed normalised.

[11:33:11]

Dibblah:

Secondly, organic growth.

[11:33:45]

** directhex sends gbee for reeducation by the department of redundancy department **

[11:35:07]

justinh:

I personally couldn't care if normalisation is a good thing or not, but it's a fucking PITA to have to look up things in multiple tables at once

[11:35:44]

directhex:

that's what normalization would involve

[11:35:51]

gbee:

normalisation means splitting information across more tables with the goal of reducing overall size

[11:36:02]

directhex:

but it would remove needing to *change* things in multiple tables at once

[11:36:03]

gbee:

well that's one goal, not just _the_ goal

[11:36:11]

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[11:36:14]

justinh:

does that really apply to mythtv in real terms though?

[11:36:19]

Dibblah:

justinh: Stored procedures.

[11:36:21]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[11:36:33]

justinh:

sounds like bollocks to me

[11:36:48]

Dibblah:

On lesser hardware, the BUQ took over a minute with my current setup.

[11:37:07]

justinh:

try changing data manually with a single line query then.. pffff

[11:37:14]

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[11:37:21]

gbee:

normalisation applies to most databases, it's actually a very good thing when done properly, IMHO anyway – you'll find plenty of debate on it

[11:37:43]

justinh:

update videometadata set director="some Guy" where genre="?". Quack quack oops

[11:38:06]

justinh:

or update videometada set genre="?" where title like "%foo%";

[11:38:09]

gbee:

justinh: users aren't meant to be fscking around directly with the database, if they have to then something is lacking/missing in Myth

[11:38:18]

justinh:

plenty is missing, then

[11:38:27]

gbee:

agreed

[11:38:47]

justinh:

the ability to manually change the very data some aspects of the program relies on, for one :)

[11:39:04]

gbee:

justinh: normalising mythvideo would mean moving genre information into it's own table – then referencing it everywhere else by id

[11:39:25]

justinh:

that's how it is now

[11:39:40]

gbee:

justinh: well I picked a bad example then ;)

[11:40:15]

justinh:

I looked into what the query should look like for that kind of manual update but gave up

[11:40:16]

Dibblah:

Oh, even easier – Views.

[11:40:34]

Dibblah:

Present a full structure through a view.

[11:40:42]

Dibblah:

Normalise the data under it.

[11:40:49]

justinh:

thing is though.. if I ever want to whip up the code for that I'd have to know the query stuff anyway

[11:41:24]

Dibblah:

A view acts _exactly_ like a table, as far as I understand it.

[11:42:27]

justinh:

users shouldn't fecking well have to be DBAs to do basic stuff like edit a bunch of metadata ;) My argument was more about making it easier to hack rather than solving the problem altogether. heh

[11:43:02]

gbee:

mythmusic is a great example – the database is normalised and entirely relational so you can potentially view it by Artists -> Albums -> Songs, Years -> Albums -> Songs, Albums -> Songs, Genres -> Artists -> Albums -> Songs

[11:43:14]

directhex:

gbee, a nicer example would be making a table for directors, making each movie use directorID instead of their name, then being able to store metadata like a director profile – or dojoin searches to see all movies by director foo

[11:43:27]

gbee:

directhex: yeah

[11:43:41]

directhex:

(like xbmc. cough)

[11:43:53]

justinh:

my feeble mind can't see how that's different to just searching on Director

[11:44:31]

justinh:

is looking for '37' faster than looking for 'Stanley Kubrik' ? Yes, but THAT much faster?

[11:44:39]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[11:44:40]

directhex:

justinh, typos, variants, etc

[11:44:46]

gbee:

well I considered doing that with mythvideo during the mythui port, but I've just run out of time – but it's been suggested to Anduin and I'll come back to it when I get time if no-one else does it before me

[11:44:57]

justinh:

obviously depends how many billions of records we have.. but again.. THAT many?

[11:45:31]

Dibblah:

Put it another way. What stopped us from moving to embedded sql of any variety?

[11:45:56]

Dibblah:

Mainly the BUQ & friends.

[11:46:09]

justinh:

I didn't think it'd make all that much difference in the little scheme of things, since even the biggest mythtv database isn't going to be along the lines of a 'real' DB

[11:46:10]

Dibblah:

That gets slightly less ugly with normalised tables.

[11:46:59]

justinh:

I'm not sure the BFSQ could be made easier to port just by normalising some tables

[11:47:27]

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[11:47:48]

Dibblah:

It's not an 'easier to port' issue, as far as I understood it.

[11:48:01]

Dibblah:

It just didn't run in sensible time on an embedded DB.

[11:48:13]

justinh:

because it's so freaking big. I know

[11:48:30]

justinh:

big, long.. and incredibly er.. big & long

[11:48:48]

Dibblah:

And it's only big because there's so much data that's *not* involved in the scheduler that has to be evaluated.

[11:49:14]

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[11:49:15]

Dibblah:

Well, and because there's so many user twiddleables ;)

[11:50:21]

justinh:

heh. just drop em

[11:50:47]

justinh:

the sheer amount of control we have is utterly mind-mangling

[11:51:55]

justinh:

recording priorities went out of the window in my house when multirec came around :)

[11:52:03]

Dibblah:

It's difficult because it's potentially 200 simultaneous travelling salesmen problems.

[11:52:06]

justinh:

no worries now :)

[11:52:14]

Dibblah:

Easy on -T.

[11:52:27]

Dibblah:

Not so much help on -S or -C.

[11:52:31]

gbee:

I still use recording priorities to govern auto-expire orders

[11:52:38]

justinh:

bah who cares about them? ;)

[11:53:01]

Dibblah:

Thieving barstewards that those particular users are, by default ;)

[11:53:28]

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[11:54:25]

gbee:

I had a couple of ideas, good ones I though, to help with the BUQ, but I forget exactly what they were now

[11:54:31]

gbee:

s/though/thought/

[11:54:59]

Dibblah:

Anything to do with not using mysql as a calculator? ;)

[11:55:51]

justinh:

oops. almost found myself feeling sorry with somebody cos their system isn't powerful enough to do the BUQ without coughing... :P

[11:55:51]

gbee:

heh

[11:56:28]

justinh:

the problem is not that the nut is too hard. it's that the hammer you used isn't big enough :)

[11:56:34]

Dibblah:

Okay. My first step to implement this should have been a simple one.

[11:56:45]

Dibblah:

I want per-SG space limits.

[11:57:15]

justinh:

oh noes! that'll only make the idiots who want livetv recorded to RAM disks happy! :(

[11:57:20]

Dibblah:

Are people going to be using SGs for anything else in future apart from recordings? Strip out the multi-directory stuff in mythvideo, etc?

[11:57:33]

Dibblah:

justinh: That's a hard one to fix.

[11:57:39]

justinh:

Dibblah: 0 is a limit too :)

[11:57:50]

justinh:

so is NULL

[11:58:43]

Dibblah:

My point is, currently there is no way to query the children of a SG, without making assumptions.

[11:58:45]

justinh:

intended uses for SGs are all kinds of things.. configuration data, mythvideo...

[11:58:55]

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[11:59:07]

gbee:

Dibblah: that's the plan – but like all plans it depends on someone have the time/inclination to do the work

[11:59:15]

Dibblah:

If it was normalised properly, it would be easier.

[11:59:19]

justinh:

let the user be aware of those assumptions

[11:59:39]

Dibblah:

justinh: Code assumptions.

[11:59:58]

justinh:

Dibblah: it could be that way now, where some idiot copies 500GB of 'files' to their recordings dir then wonder why mythtv is no longer recording

[12:00:03]

Dibblah:

At the moment, I'd have to query the recorded table and collect all of the sizes of recordings in there.

[12:00:23]

Dibblah:

Since nothing else uses SGs.

[12:00:26]

justinh:

what does the 'disk free threshold' do?

[12:00:36]

Dibblah:

Not a lot after SGs.

[12:00:39]

justinh:

just do a df on the dir

[12:00:50]

justinh:

er.. du I mean

[12:01:01]

justinh:

must be a function for that already shirley

[12:01:14]

Dibblah:

I'm not interested in the amount of space used on the volume. I'm interested in the amount Myth believes it should be using.

[12:01:20]

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[12:01:48]

Dibblah:

There is currently no way to say to Myth "Use only x in this path".

[12:02:01]

justinh:

myth could keep track of how much storage it's using

[12:02:14]

justinh:

so at any time it'd always 'know'

[12:02:29]

Dibblah:

... And without normalisation, that knowledge is spread in at least 4 tables.

[12:02:38]

justinh:

be cool to have a status screen where it shows you that kind of data, too

[12:02:52]

justinh:

and I don't mean the 'info centre' status screen either

[12:05:13]

mchou:

frigging comcast nuked my STB

[12:05:35]

mchou:

"updating TV Guide data"

[12:05:40]

mchou:

wtf??

[12:18:08]

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[12:18:41]

Solaris444:

Hi guys, I have a Core2Quad with 2GB of RAM. I have an issue with mythfrontend freezing however. If I try to rip a DVD and also watch digital tv at the same time, the system becomes unresponsive in one of two ways. Sometimes digital tv refuses to display, and sometimes the dvd ejects part way through ripping.

[12:18:51]

Solaris444:

Could it be that I don't have enough RAM.

[12:19:48]

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[12:21:41]

directhex:

Solaris444, you have an SMP-enabled kernel, right?

[12:21:57]

Solaris444:

yes.

[12:22:16]

Solaris444:

i'm not using bigsmp though.

[12:22:28]

directhex:

... 32-bit?

[12:22:30]

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[12:22:31]

Dibblah:

gbee: Storing the directory doesn't necessarily work :(

[12:22:32]

Solaris444:

yes

[12:22:55]

Dibblah:

... If you have more than one host, the file may be mounted in different places.

[12:23:03]

Solaris444:

my max load has been about 4.62

[12:23:16]

Solaris444:

which on a quad-core system is pretty much fine you would think.

[12:23:16]

directhex:

Solaris444, that seems rather, um, odd

[12:23:19]

Dibblah:

We need to be able to physically tag each directory so 'uniques' can be located.

[12:23:42]

directhex:

Solaris444, what are you running other than myth & dvd ripping?

[12:23:47]

Solaris444:

directhex: I am using 2GB of the 2GB of RAM though.

[12:23:57]

Solaris444:

Trying to watch tv while dvd ripping.

[12:24:09]

directhex:

Solaris444, what graphics card are you using?

[12:24:18]

Solaris444:

Geforce8400GS.

[12:24:21]

Dibblah:

Solaris444: Is your frontend also a combined backend?

[12:24:25]

Solaris444:

yes

[12:24:35]

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[12:25:06]

sebrock:

Cant get mythweb to stream music... Think I've tried everything. my mythbacken.log says : 2008-09–23 14:16:35.724 adding: server as a client (events: 0)

[12:25:06]

sebrock:

2008-09–23 14:16:36.237 MainServer::HandleAnnounce Monitor

[12:25:17]

sebrock:

but the external player will not launch anything

[12:25:30]

sebrock:

all server responses are 200 OK aswell

[12:25:58]

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[12:26:46]

Dibblah:

gbee: Getting round that, I'm having conceptual issues with, though.

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[12:27:36]

directhex:

Solaris444, SD or HD playback?

[12:27:51]

gbee:

sorry, lost the thread due to the dropped connection

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Solaris444:

directhex, it can't even get to the video stage.

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[12:28:17]

Solaris444:

Though sometimes I hear audio.

[12:28:33]

Dibblah:

gbee: Storing the directory doesn't necessarily work :(... If you have more than one host, the file may be mounted in different places.We need to be able to physically tag each directory so 'uniques' can be located.

[12:28:39]

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[12:28:59]

directhex:

Solaris444, can you pastebin the result of "ps -ef r" and "uptime" WITHOUT mythfrontend running, but WITH a recording happening (i.e. schedule some show to record, then show me)

[12:29:20]

gbee:

ugh, this is the problem with nfs shares :(

[12:29:33]

Solaris444:

directhex: sorry, I can't. The machine is at a different premesis.

[12:29:34]

gbee:

or NAS etc

[12:29:38]

Solaris444:

:-(

[12:29:42]

Dibblah:

Exactly.

[12:29:53]

Dibblah:

I'm still thinking about it.

[12:29:56]

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[12:30:01]

Solaris444:

What were you thinking you might see directhex?

[12:30:09]

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[12:30:15]

directhex:

Solaris444, i don't know. but you should never see load that high under that use case

[12:30:32]

directhex:

gbee, abstract the mount points per-host

[12:30:37]

gbee:

Dibblah: well I'd like to help, but you are on your own, I need to stop being distracted from what I'm working on now

[12:30:37]

Dibblah:

Since when has loadavg meant _anything_?

[12:30:49]

Dibblah:

gbee: Sure! Thanks for your time!

[12:30:54]

directhex:

gbee, {sg1}/1001_52364786284.mpg

[12:31:05]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[12:31:21]

directhex:

Dibblah, it's meant something since the guy's system sounds like it's being hammered to death

[12:31:38]

directhex:

Dibblah, might be something simple like mesa instead of a real driver, but i'm not convinced

[12:31:39]

Solaris444:

directhex: ripping a dvd AND trying to watch livetv using dvb-t isn't a high-load use-case?

[12:31:44]

directhex:

or lack of DMA maybe

[12:31:54]

Solaris444:

Because I thought maybe it was because the system was trying to use swap and having a fit.

[12:32:04]

Solaris444:

It's running a software raid5 btw.

[12:32:14]

Dibblah:

4 would just be iow.

[12:32:14]

directhex:

Solaris444, watching SD DVB-T shouldn't stress an athlon xp, let alone a single core on a core2

[12:32:26]

Dibblah:

Look up what loadavg means.

[12:32:35]

directhex:

Solaris444, and unless your dvd ripper is using all 4 cores (i don't know of any that do), it shouldn't be that demanding

[12:32:44]

Solaris444:

right.

[12:32:48]

Dibblah:

It's number of processes waiting on resources, basically.

[12:32:57]

directhex:

yes, mention of load makes me think iowait

[12:32:59]

Solaris444:

but my load might be high because the hdd's are the bottleneck.

[12:33:04]

directhex:

Solaris444, what's your raid card?

[12:33:10]

Solaris444:

it's software raid.

[12:33:16]

Solaris444:

mdadm.

[12:33:20]

Dibblah:

So doing a recording, that'll be the recorder, the commflagger, and the frontend == loadavg of 3.

[12:33:21]

Solaris444:

filesystem is ext3

[12:33:32]

justinh:

lol

[12:33:59]

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[12:34:01]

Dibblah:

RAID type?

[12:34:23]

justinh:

5, he said

[12:34:29]

directhex:

sata or pata?

[12:34:42]

Solaris444:

partition /boot is mirrored raid across 3 disks. / is mirrored raid across 3 disks /storage is raid5 across 3 disks.

[12:34:45]

Solaris444:

sata

[12:34:52]

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[12:35:12]

Dibblah:

RAID5 is nasty for concurrent access.

[12:35:22]

Dibblah:

ie write / read.

[12:35:30]

Solaris444:

hmmm

[12:35:44]

Dibblah:

Is your DB on a seperate spindle to your recordings directory?

[12:35:59]

Solaris444:

spindle?

[12:36:08]

Dibblah:

Oh, wait – You've split the disk into 3 RAIDs?

[12:36:16]

Solaris444:

it's on /md1

[12:36:18]

Dibblah:

Physical disk.

[12:36:22]

Solaris444:

storage is on /md2

[12:36:38]

Solaris444:

4 partitions on each disk like so:

[12:36:38]

directhex:

i don't have such issues w/ 8-disk raid5. albeit with a hardware controller with a chunk o' cache

[12:36:42]

Dibblah:

The 3 disks that form the 3 raids – They're not the same, are they?

[12:36:50]

Solaris444:

100MB, 2GB, 20GB, the rest

[12:36:52]

Dibblah:

Hardware controllers are very different.

[12:37:30]

Solaris444:

3 of those disks. then each 100mb part forms /dev/md0 which is mounted at /boot

[12:37:36]

Solaris444:

the 20GB ones are /

[12:37:49]

Solaris444:

and the "rest" is /dev/md2 mounted to /storage

[12:37:51]

Dibblah:

ie / is {sda2,sdb2,sdc2} and /storage is {sdd3,sde3,sdf3}

[12:38:00]

Dibblah:

Solaris444: Bad idea.

[12:38:10]

Solaris444:

why is that Dibblah?

[12:38:14]

Dibblah:

You're causing head thrashing.

[12:38:54]

Dibblah:

To do a recording, the head has to seek to the beginning of the disk to write the seektable entries, then to the recording directory, then back.

[12:39:29]

Dibblah:

At the very least, the DB drive _should_ be on a different physical disk to the storage.

[12:40:00]

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[12:40:04]

Dibblah:

And of course, it doesn't help that all file writes by the recorder are fsynced in 2s chunks.

[12:40:42]

Solaris444:

oh

[12:40:50]

Solaris444:

so it's an io problem.

[12:41:13]

Solaris444:

but then if I don't RAID the system, if he loses a disk he loses everything.

[12:41:32]

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[12:41:52]

Dibblah:

I'm not saying don't RAID. I'm saying don't split a disk into seperate RAIDs.

[12:42:05]

Dibblah:

(Apart from /boot – That's OK)

[12:43:08]

Solaris444:

gah.

[12:43:50]

Solaris444:

my distro of choice is playing up too.

[12:43:52]

Solaris444:

:/

[12:43:54]

Solaris444:

goodie.

[12:44:07]

Solaris444:

I can't set a widescreen resolution.

[12:44:09]

Solaris444:

:-P

[12:44:10]

Solaris444:

so fun

[12:44:33]

directhex:

using which driver?

[12:48:15]

Dibblah:

Hmm.

[12:48:16]

Dibblah:

tr("Remove '%1'\nDirectory From Storage Group?").arg(name);

[12:48:22]

Dibblah:

How's that meant to work? ;)

[12:48:25]

justinh:

if you're outputting to a TV chances are you'd never want to even try :)

[12:48:47]

justinh:

720x576 for my PAL 32" wide telly

[12:49:49]

Dibblah:

1366x768 for my wide telly.

[12:49:50]

Dibblah:

;)

[12:50:43]

justinh:

yeah but that ain't PAL

[12:51:58]

justinh:

still hunting down suitable tellies to replace my CRT. doesn't look like there's much under £800 yet

[12:52:29]

btQuark:

btw: did anyone yet try the development branch of manu abraham for the saa716x cards?

[12:53:50]

rooaus:

Dibblah: Translates the "Remove" and "Directory From Storage Group" for other languages, but displays the untranslated 'name' in the final string. As far as I can tell anyway, but some of the tr() stuff can get confusing. :)

[13:05:44]

Dibblah:

btQuark: Wasn't that still labelled 'WIP – Not yet functional'?

[13:06:21]

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[13:07:28]

btQuark:

Dibblah: yup it is not too functional yet, but i thought maybe someone had a look at it – the module in itself loads and builds fine in my system

[13:08:24]

nallic:

has anyone tried running mythfrontend on the Asus eeepc ?

[13:08:38]

nallic:

is it powerfull enough ?

[13:08:40]

gbee:

nallic: which version?

[13:09:06]

nallic:

guess its the first one.. thats the only one we can buy here in Denmark :)

[13:09:18]

gbee:

hmm, can't be sure, but it should be

[13:09:55]

gbee:

I'm running mythfrontend on my Acer Aspire One, which is similar hardware – although Atom based like the newer Eee

[13:10:09]

nallic:

ok

[13:10:18]

nallic:

but no HD i assume :)

[13:10:23]

gbee:

won't do HD obviously, but it shouldn't have a problem with SD

[13:10:26]

gbee:

:)

[13:11:06]

gbee:

IIRC the first Eee used a more powerful Celeron than the Atom in the new ones

[13:11:19]

nallic:

ok

[13:11:36]

nallic:

could be a nice "kitchen TV frontend"

[13:11:37]

dustybin:

13:51 < justinh> still hunting down suitable tellies to replace my CRT. doesn't look like there's much under £800 yet

[13:11:41]

dustybin:

^^ good luck..

[13:11:44]

nallic:

but its not a tablet pc..

[13:11:46]

dustybin:

i always give up on that one

[13:11:54]

nallic:

could build it into a nice box though

[13:12:36]

gbee:

all depends what you want from a TV – 1080p under £800 – no

[13:14:24]

Dibblah:

Most of the cheaper ones are not 1080 native.

[13:14:31]

gbee:

won't get a monster sized LCD either

[13:14:43]

Dibblah:

1366 x 768 panel size is _annoyingly_ common.

[13:15:19]

Dibblah:

... Which you can only drive properly using DVI from a NV card, or using an Intel card.

[13:15:19]

gbee:

40" and under and I think a 720 screen is fine

[13:15:30]

gbee:

or ATi

[13:15:44]

Dibblah:

(NV drivers have a multiples of 8 limit)

[13:16:15]

dustybin:

Dibblah: Dibblah that means you can never match the native res, resulting in jitter

[13:16:29]

Dibblah:

Yes, you can.

[13:16:47]

Dibblah:

You need to fiddle with things in xorg.conf, and it only works over DVI. But it's possible.

[13:16:58]

Dibblah:

With an Intel card, of course, it just works ;)

[13:16:58]

dustybin:

i didnt know that

[13:17:17]

dustybin:

1366 x 768 ?

[13:17:36]

dustybin:

you mean, 1360 x 768

[13:18:05]

janneg:

http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=tvlcd&sort=p&a . . . 34_1920x1080

[13:18:33]

janneg:

has a lot 40" lcd tvs under 1000 Euro

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[13:24:10]

Dibblah:

dustybin: No, I don't.

[13:24:25]

Dibblah:

The physical panel resolution is 1366x768.

[13:24:43]

Dibblah:

The 1360x768 is a workaround resolution for NVidia / other cards.

[13:26:51]

dustybin:

Dibblah: looks at this http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Modeline_Database

[13:26:58]

dustybin:

there is no such thing as a 1366 x 768 modeline

[13:27:05]

Dibblah:

You sure about that?

[13:27:12]

dustybin:

either, 1368 or 1360

[13:27:18]

dustybin:

read ^^^

[13:27:30]

Dibblah:

Read...

[13:27:41]

Dibblah:

Actually read the page... ;)

[13:28:13]

Dibblah:

Modeline "1366x768" 85.50 1366 1478 1590 1776 768 771 777 795

[13:28:16]

Dibblah:

For example.

[13:28:22]

dustybin:

Modeline "1366x768" 85.500 1360 1440 1552 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

[13:28:29]

** dustybin walks away slowly **

[13:28:40]

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[13:28:55]

Dibblah:

Thanks for proving my point ;)

[13:29:30]

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[13:31:30]

** dustybin looks at 1366 x 768 TVs for sale **

[13:32:01]

directhex:

nvidia's latest drivers will actually EDID their way to victory, IME

[13:32:09]

directhex:

even on screens with incorrect EDID

[13:32:30]

directhex:

i have no modelines, but a crisp 1360x768 autodetected (3px of black borders either side. whoop.)

[13:32:52]

dustybin:

NVIDIA-Linux-x86–173.14.12-pkg1.run <-- im using these

[13:33:21]

dustybin:

directhex: why dont you use the correct modeline for 1366 x 768

[13:33:26]

Dibblah:

How does it manage that with an incorrect EDID?

[13:33:49]

directhex:

Dibblah, i have NO fucking idea

[13:33:54]

Dibblah:

For mine, the EDID lists the resolution as 1024x768 – Which is not exactly ideal :)

[13:34:00]

directhex:

Dibblah, ditto!

[13:34:21]

directhex:

Dibblah, i have a ~blank xorg.conf, nvidia just applied epic widescreen win to it by automagics

[13:34:35]

dustybin:

EDID'NT WORK

[13:35:04]

dustybin:

directhex: shame its 1360..

[13:35:12]

dustybin:

not exactly ideal...

[13:35:29]

directhex:

dustybin, can you see three black pixels from a distance of 6 feet?

[13:35:46]

dustybin:

directhex: its not just that, your not running at the native res of your TV

[13:35:59]

Dibblah:

dustybin: There is no scaling involved.

[13:36:03]

dustybin:

that means your TV has to rescale from 1360 to 1366, and that could mean jitter

[13:36:05]

directhex:

dustybin, there is no scaling involved

[13:36:09]

directhex:

oh, sigh

[13:36:16]

directhex:

hint: you don't know what you think you know

[13:36:21]

directhex:

BLACK BORDERS, MOFO

[13:36:34]

directhex:

six pixels are left permanently black, the rest is 1:1

[13:36:35]

dustybin:

oh, so that means 1:1 pixel mapping?

[13:36:36]

Dibblah:

Noone really talks like that, do they?

[13:37:23]

dustybin:

Dibblah: you need to make sure the TV supports 1:1 pixel mapping, otherwise it will be rescaled and stretched

[13:37:50]

Dibblah:

dustybin: Surprisingly enough, I know that.

[13:38:25]

dustybin:

1:1 pixel mapping TVs = expensive

[13:38:37]

Dibblah:

No.

[13:38:47]

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[13:38:49]

dustybin:

the last time i looked they were

[13:39:05]

Dibblah:

Most controllers work with at least one 1:1 mode.

[13:39:11]

directhex:

hm, microsoft dropping bundled apps like OE from windows 7

[13:39:23]

Dibblah:

The difficulty is in getting the graphics card to output that mode.

[13:39:25]

directhex:

go back a good 3 years and maybe

[13:39:29]

Dibblah:

And of course finding it ;)

[13:40:00]

directhex:

e.g. medion were shipping a 1280x768 set which internally rescaled ALL input to 1024x768 first, then again to 1280x768

[13:40:16]

dustybin:

why dont we _ALL_ buy the exact same model / size TV, then we can all share the perfik modeline

[13:48:03]

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[13:49:47]

gbee:

modelines aren't even relevant to most modern cards/drivers

[13:50:36]

gbee:

driver/X etc will often do an equal or better job than a custom modeline – in my experience anyway

[13:50:43]

dustybin:

gbee: EDIDN'T WORK

[13:52:17]

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directhex:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/a2bf05531f

[14:08:04]

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[14:19:44]

justinh:

dustybin: cuz I don't want yo sucky telly :D

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[15:06:08]

mzb_d800:

justinh: I'm getting ready to deliver said M10K tomorrow ... can you tell/remind me the problems you had with yours?

[15:06:20]

mzb_d800:

(I think I'm pretty sorted)

[15:06:31]

mzb_d800:

... just double checking

[15:07:20]

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[15:23:47]

justinh:

mzb_d800: wouldn't reliably play back DVB recordings at 1x speed when deinterlacing was enabled

[15:24:35]

justinh:

it would on ubuntu but I couldn't get digital audio to work reliably

[15:25:07]

directhex:

... people still use epia?

[15:26:25]

laga:

directhex: people even complain about the lack of CMOV support in the ubuntu packages

[15:27:01]

directhex:

laga, let them eat lipa?

[15:27:03]

directhex:

lpia

[15:27:32]

janneg:

laga: tell them to to benchmark it and post the results on mythtv-dev

[15:27:50]

laga:

good idea.

[15:27:57]

laga:

does LPIA not have CMOV?

[15:28:28]

mzb_d800:

justdave: hmm ... no problems at any speed or recording ... not using digital audio (aware of USB issues)

[15:28:33]

janneg:

I don't think it would have a measureable influence

[15:28:42]

mzb_d800:

s/justdave/justinh/

[15:28:52]

justinh:

grrr. 10Mb broadband my eye. 3.7Mbps :(

[15:28:58]

mzb_d800:

heh

[15:29:02]

directhex:

laga, possibly, but if you're runnig lpia, you're not exactly commanding the most modern of cpu instructions

[15:29:18]

directhex:

laga, and if you already have an almopst-i386-bit-less-featured arch, why not re-use it?

[15:29:21]

justinh:

well, at least I have a cable modem now, and they gave me a free wireless router (more netgear shite)

[15:29:34]

janneg:

and VIA C7, which is imho in the target group of mythtv packages, doesn't support cmov

[15:30:10]

mzb_d800:

justinh: any tests you can suggest, considering you {familiarity of}//{hatred with} this machine?

[15:30:12]

laga:

directhex: or we could disable CMOV for LPIA. but i'm not sure if lpia will run properly on via cpus.. i wonder if they have a special kernel config?

[15:30:28]

justinh:

mzb_d800: see if it'll resist thermite

[15:30:31]

laga:

janneg: it won't be reverted unless i see benchmarks. and i'm not going to provide them

[15:30:36]

directhex:

laga, bloody epia...

[15:30:49]

mzb_d800:

doesn't react to kryptonite ... is that good enough?

[15:31:06]

justinh:

need to see how well the board responds to thermite on fire

[15:31:13]

mzb_d800:

it's got a usb dvb tuner and can watch live tv on rabbit ears ... does that sound good enough?

[15:31:17]

justinh:

only that will satiate me :D

[15:31:44]

mzb_d800:

hmm ... you might be right ... fresh out of thermite after testing a few macs ;)

[15:32:16]

justinh:

ah yes, but will it blend? :D

[15:32:23]

mzb_d800:

(not willing to milk petrol from $(WOMAN}'s car either)

[15:32:26]

mzb_d800:

ah

[15:32:38]

mzb_d800:

now that's an even harder question to answer

[15:33:01]

mzb_d800:

it will transcode while watching live tv ... is that close enough?

[15:33:17]

mzb_d800:

(although it might take 10–12 hours to do it;))

[15:33:32]

mzb_d800:

I really can't fault it

[15:34:08]

mzb_d800:

it took me a long time to work out some of the trickery, but now it's sweet

[15:34:21]

mzb_d800:

only has two real problems:

[15:35:13]

mzb_d800:

1. the IR keyboard controller can get confused if something blocks the IR path during transmission (results in repeating key syndrome;)

[15:36:13]

mzb_d800:

2. it runs a little warm and needs a well ventilated resting place (250GB drive, DVD drive, RT2400 wifi card, USB tuner, USB IR receiver .... etc)

[15:36:20]

mzb_d800:

apart from that it seems fine

[15:37:26]

mzb_d800:

I did experiment with various voltages for the intake fans (2x40mm) ... but after consideration it's just too marginal/risky ... better to ensure end user leaves box in well ventilated position

[15:37:38]

mzb_d800:

any other suggestions?

[15:38:52]

mzb_d800:

(ie: mind you .. 11b wifi sucks;)

[15:41:39]

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[15:42:35]

justinh:

no doubt I could've got decent results, as the die-hards report (and you) but I just couldn't be bothered

[15:42:58]

justinh:

my time is worth more than what my current frontend cost :)

[15:43:04]

diseaser:

anyone familiar with the "udevinfo" or "udevadm" commands? I keep getting "node not found" messages when trying to run udevinfo -a --name=/dev/input/event6 ... I know event6 is the right event because I can see junk come out when I cat /dev/input/event6 when pressing buttons on the remote

[15:44:24]

laga:

justinh: weren't you always bitching about your frontend being too expensive? ;)

[15:44:42]

justinh:

laga: for the performance I was getting out of it, sure!

[15:45:07]

justinh:

£ for Ghorsepower they just ain't worth it

[15:45:42]

justinh:

you pay a massive premium for small size – which you can't really get away with putting in a tiny case cos it'll overheat

[15:46:53]

justinh:

as for my current frontend – cost less than the Epia board cost all told

[15:47:42]

justinh:

the jury is still out on whether it'll play BBC HD in myth or not, but if push comes to shove I can upgrade the CPU

[15:47:54]

TomasuDlrrp is now known as Tomasu

[15:48:46]

justinh:

heh just looked at my scrollback.. seems my connection didn't even time out when I put the cable modem into place

[15:48:57]

mzb_d800:

yeah, but MY version will be FE only .. and disk-less

[15:49:18]

mzb_d800:

and the reason I'm probing is that I also have a V8000 board

[15:49:52]

mzb_d800:

and I wonder if that will give comparable (ie: good enough) results

[15:50:07]

justinh:

I wouldn't bet your house on it

[15:50:12]

mzb_d800:

(as I'd like to use the dual IDE ports of the M10K for my M10K)

[15:50:23]

mzb_d800:

luck I don't own a house then ;)

[15:50:28]

mzb_d800:

s/lucky

[15:50:33]

justinh:

what's so wrong with the idea of having a proper machine anyway?

[15:50:51]

mzb_d800:

it's all paid for (by someone else)

[15:51:00]

justinh:

mobile boards can be small & you can pick up mobile C2Ds for very keen prices

[15:51:14]

justinh:

and this thing is running cooler than the m10k ever did

[15:51:23]

directhex:

even that cheapo atom board would smash an epia to bits

[15:51:29]

mzb_d800:

and the p3–1000 I've got now doesn't fit too well ...

[15:51:48]

mzb_d800:

yeah .. but I'm not paying new prices (or anything for that matter)

[15:51:52]

justinh:

board, c2d T5600 & 1GB RAM came to just under £110

[15:52:07]

justinh:

less than the epia came to when I added 512MB RAM

[15:52:14]

dustybin:

justinh: what about the case? cases usually cost double that

[15:52:22]

justinh:

I already had the case

[15:52:36]

dustybin:

what does your case look like

[15:52:42]

justinh:

the case was £110. absolute rip-off

[15:52:48]

dustybin:

jeeze

[15:52:50]

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[15:52:50]

justinh:

silverstone LC02

[15:52:56]

justinh:

but it looks better than your lame POS

[15:52:58]

dustybin:

my SDTV frontend cost £50 :-

[15:53:01]

dustybin:

)

[15:53:02]

justinh:

and it SHOWS

[15:53:03]

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[15:53:10]

dustybin:

haha no way

[15:53:21]

dustybin:

its in bits at the moment, need to replace a little 40mm fan

[15:53:26]

laga:

haha

[15:53:26]

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[15:53:30]

justinh:

what a ballache

[15:53:31]

laga:

"it was cheap and it's broken"

[15:53:37]

dustybin:

now its silent

[15:53:44]

dustybin:

not broke at all

[15:53:46]

laga:

my main frontend is my desktop box. plenty of horse power for h264 ;)

[15:53:54]

mzb_d800:

my FE's cost < au$30 (and yes it does show ... except one is mounted under the floor;)

[15:53:57]

laga:

silent? yeah, because it's not running

[15:54:10]

dustybin:

laga: it netboots over PXE

[15:54:13]

mzb_d800:

but they do the job

[15:54:23]

dustybin:

the only fan will the the CPU fan and thats silent

[15:54:40]

justinh:

if we didn't have this insane need for a bloody front-facing optical drive I could easily put a hulk of a desktop under the stairs & run all the signals to & fro the living room

[15:54:43]

dustybin:

ill take some snaps once its done

[15:55:00]

justinh:

dustybin: cool. I won't look, promise

[15:55:03]

mzb_d800:

can anyone tell me the *real* playback difference between a V8000 and an M10K?

[15:55:07]

dustybin:

:P

[15:55:18]

justinh:

mzb_d800: depends if the V8000 has xvmc or not

[15:55:30]

justinh:

if not, hold back the tears

[15:55:30]

mzb_d800:

I guess I'll just have to netboot it and find out then

[15:55:36]

dustybin:

the _ONLY_ serious problem MythTV has at the moment, is with DVD / ISO playback

[15:55:38]

mzb_d800:

nah ... no big deal

[15:55:56]

justinh:

those via cpus are so reliant on xvmc it's unreal

[15:55:57]

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[15:56:01]

mzb_d800:

seems a bit of a waste to use the M10K as a pbx, I guess ;)

[15:56:05]

justinh:

it wouldn't play a DVD without it

[15:56:15]

mzb_d800:

I'm not so sure that xvmc is the only thing

[15:56:21]

dustybin:

i can rip a DVD ISO into x254 format, and its perfik, however, if mythtv trys and plays back a DVD / ISO, all hell is let loose

[15:56:26]

mzb_d800:

the mpeg2 seems more important

[15:56:35]

justinh:

dustybin: yay for losing the menus & xtra shite

[15:56:41]

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[15:56:48]

dustybin:

justinh: yep thats a good thing

[15:56:55]

mzb_d800:

ie: mpeg2 playback at 5% cpu seems pretty decent

[15:57:07]

dustybin:

mzb_d800: test out playing a dvd

[15:57:13]

mzb_d800:

(better than a P3–1000 with an nvidia card)

[15:57:14]

justinh:

special edition of Tron has FIVE hours of 'bonus material'. FFS. FIVE HOURS!

[15:57:16]

mzb_d800:

k

[15:57:25]

dustybin:

mzb_d800: using the internal player

[15:57:43]

justinh:

mzb_d800: yeah but without xvmc, that 5% would be way in excess of 50%

[15:57:58]

justinh:

I was there remember ;)

[15:58:12]

mzb_d800:

machine is currently running a niced (n19) rsync but we'll see

[15:58:52]

justinh:

anyway.. broadbanding upgraded.. time now to take doggy for a walk before he visits the vets for his checkup

[15:59:11]

dustybin:

justinh: what bitrate do you encode normal DVDs at ?

[15:59:20]

dustybin:

im using 2000kbps

[15:59:26]

dustybin:

might change it down to 1500kbps

[16:00:08]

sutula:

There's an HP slimline media center PC on woot.com right now...anyone know whether myth would run on it?

[16:00:58]

mzb_d800:

"Piglet's BIG Movie" ==> ~30%

[16:01:00]

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[16:01:42]

mzb_d800:

(rsync has finished it appears)

[16:02:17]

mzb_d800:

(30% is a max .... min about 23%)

[16:03:40]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: ps: that's internal player

[16:04:12]

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[16:04:13]

mzb_d800:

SpiliopTV:~# cat /proc/loadavg

[16:04:13]

mzb_d800:

0.52 0.57 0.60 4/136 5198

[16:04:37]

dustybin:

mzb_d800: was that a DVD?

[16:04:41]

dustybin:

or a rip

[16:04:49]

mzb_d800:

original dvd

[16:04:59]

dustybin:

did you notice any sync problems?

[16:05:02]

mzb_d800:

(fresh out of the cover)

[16:05:17]

mzb_d800:

audio + video sync?

[16:05:25]

dustybin:

ive tried a few DVDs, the video speeds then slows

[16:05:39]

dustybin:

some kind of sync problem, maybe it only happens on certain DVDs

[16:05:52]

mzb_d800:

hard to tell on a cartoon

[16:05:59]

mzb_d800:

I'll try something else

[16:06:05]

dustybin:

it also might be because im using the 5.1 soundtrack

[16:07:39]

mzb_d800:

will a dvd from mytharchive count (direct burn from mpeg2 dvb recording) ??

[16:08:01]

dustybin:

nope needs to be original ISO with TS files etc

[16:08:55]

mzb_d800:

how is mytharchive dvd not sufficient? Plays in a normal DVD player.

[16:11:39]

mzb_d800:

hmm ... dvd might have issues .... might have to get the file out ;)

[16:12:01]

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[16:13:33]

mzb_d800:

possibility this drive doesn't like DVD-R

[16:13:37]

mzb_d800:

*sigh*

[16:14:23]

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[16:15:00]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[16:15:26]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: how about playback from a ripped dvd (ie: direct iso image) ??

[16:18:01]

mzb_d800:

playback in first minute = 14–24%

[16:18:29]

mzb_d800:

audio + video sync perfect

[16:18:52]

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[16:19:14]

mzb_d800:

(rip is a mytharchive dvd of a dvb mpeg2 recording ... if that makes sense)

[16:19:45]

mzb_d800:

occasional peaks at 2%

[16:19:49]

mzb_d800:

occasional peaks at 27%

[16:20:21]

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[16:20:23]

mzb_d800:

(7 key sticking on this keyboard thanks to ${WOMAN}'s eating habits:||)

[16:21:49]

mzb_d800:

hmm ... might have to investigate dvd reader before install :|

[16:22:22]

mzb_d800:

but either way ... machine works ... and a lot better than .... a P3–1000 + nvidia card

[16:22:28]

mzb_d800:

(so far)

[16:23:15]

mzb_d800:

that being said ... I've not tried repositioning the video ... waiting for the end-user's tv

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[16:25:10]

mzb_d800:

31% max

[16:25:55]

mzb_d800:

avg appears to be 20%

[16:25:57]

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[16:28:11]

mzb_d800:

ah well ... that appears to have bored you all ... I'd better give up until I can spend $ on modern parts ;P

[16:28:56]

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[16:34:33]

mzb_d800:

playing directly from dvd yields same results (different dvd)

[16:35:42]

justinh:

lazy question 1: there's this pc on some hype website today. will it run mythtv?

[16:35:44]

mzb_d800:

do keep getting a shock from the box though ... that's not cool ;)

[16:36:06]

justinh:

connected the tv eh?

[16:36:07]

mzb_d800:

justinh: that will depend on if it can fly ;)

[16:36:23]

justinh:

leaky decoupling caps on the ht ;)

[16:36:33]

mzb_d800:

justinh: hmm ... on the tv?

[16:36:47]

justinh:

yeah – it's to be expected

[16:36:50]

mzb_d800:

hard to believe ... it's going through a vcr first

[16:37:04]

mzb_d800:

(and then a receiver)

[16:37:09]

justinh:

yeah the TV is leaking HT ever so slightly onto ground

[16:37:18]

justinh:

it happens

[16:37:33]

mzb_d800:

but it's going through 2 other components first

[16:37:55]

justinh:

my old panasonic develops about 70V AC from the cable shield to ground

[16:38:03]

mzb_d800:

gee ... better get his lordship to do maintenance ;)

[16:38:20]

mzb_d800:

(or use the spare)

[16:38:29]

justinh:

it er.. tingles a little. can startle you if it takes you by surprise

[16:38:43]

justinh:

many CRT monitors do too

[16:38:59]

justinh:

MOAR BETTER EARTHY required :P

[16:39:00]

mzb_d800:

heh ... just a little crackle on the fingertips when you touch the M10K

[16:39:04]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[16:39:13]

mzb_d800:

better get the old bloke onto it

[16:39:43]

mzb_d800:

mind you ... if we move into a place with a larger lounge we might use the 42" rptv instead ;)

[16:40:03]

justinh:

it's not life-threatening of course... until it is

[16:40:13]

mzb_d800:

nah

[16:40:22]

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[16:40:32]

mzb_d800:

it's not DC, and it's not 800V ... I can handle it ;)

[16:41:08]

justinh:

the perils of live chassis – modern CRTs eh

[16:41:37]

justinh:

I think even flat panels aren't immune from it

[16:42:11]

justinh:

bad PSU decoupling from the inverters driving the grid/backlights

[16:42:35]

justinh:

vet time :)

[16:42:41]

mzb_d800:

just lost a 22" ... left today under warranty

[16:43:20]

mzb_d800:

hopefully it will return fixed @ $0 ... but experience tells me I've got a snowball's chance...

[16:43:33]

mzb_d800:

ah well ... cross fingers

[16:43:52]

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[16:46:05]

mzb_d800:

justinh: clarification: iirc this is a K9-chassis (AWA-Thorn 69cm)

[16:46:21]

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[16:48:13]

mzb_d800:

err ... not sure about the AWA bit ;)

[16:50:03]

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[16:51:23]

mzb_d800:

gnite all

[16:53:13]

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[16:57:01]

wagnerrp:

so what are the chances these newly approved ATSC revisions will reach the commoner in the next decade...

[16:57:11]

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[16:57:45]

iamlindoro_:

Pick any number <= 0

[16:57:46]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[16:58:27]

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[16:58:53]

wagnerrp:

well at least it seems im eating my words about broadcast being irrelevant by the time the US upgrades their TV system once again

[16:59:02]

wagnerrp:

of course that is still yet to be seen

[17:00:44]

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[17:08:31]

perlmonkey:

greetings

[17:10:07]

iamlindoro_:

salutations

[17:10:58]

perlmonkey:

im having problems using a wifi security camera with mythtv..for some reason the picture is collapsed this is on composite input, if I connect the camera to my hdd recorder, and connect to mythtv via s-video its improved theres a full picture view but theres overlay/ghosting

[17:11:01]

perlmonkey:

any ideas?

[17:11:24]

perlmonkey:

the security camera uses composite output and is standard PAL video format

[17:12:10]

wagnerrp:

ghosting usually implies poorly shielded cable

[17:12:24]

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[17:12:32]

wagnerrp:

of course why capture with mythtv when theres zoneminder to use

[17:15:07]

perlmonkey:

ah

[17:15:28]

wagnerrp:

zoneminder is actually designed for security systems

[17:15:40]

perlmonkey:

phew

[17:15:46]

wagnerrp:

including motion camera control, motion tracking, and all that fun stuff

[17:15:51]

** perlmonkey googles for it **

[17:16:01]

wagnerrp:

there is a frontend for zoneminder that runs as a mythtv plugin

[17:16:22]

perlmonkey:

neat!

[17:17:16]

perlmonkey:

is zoneminder as complex as mythtv to install and setup

[17:17:28]

wagnerrp:

dont know, never used it

[17:17:36]

perlmonkey:

ok

[17:17:37]

** wagnerrp has no cameras **

[17:18:02]

perlmonkey:

my little wifi camera works good thru the TV and also in my hdd recorder

[17:19:38]

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[17:20:13]

iamlindoro_:

Yes, it's just as complex if not moreso

[17:20:33]

iamlindoro_:

well, getting it running is easy, making it work the way you want... not so much

[17:20:44]

wagnerrp:

probably about as complex as setting up a real security system (considering thats what youre doing)

[17:21:50]

perlmonkey:

ah

[17:21:52]

iamlindoro_:

And people think Myth has a lot of complex sounding options :)

[17:22:17]

perlmonkey:

i finally got my mythtv setup working how i want after like 1 year

[17:22:55]

perlmonkey:

but im doing something weird, i have my video source coming from a commercial hdd recorder

[17:23:20]

wagnerrp:

youre recording from a recorder?

[17:23:39]

perlmonkey:

hehe yes

[17:25:27]

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[17:30:33]

perlmonkey:

damnit no package for zoneminder in feisty ubuntu

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

[17:31:38]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_7.04

[17:32:10]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, beter to follow that line of thinking in #zoneminder

[17:32:13]

iamlindoro_:

er better

[17:32:48]

perlmonkey:

thanks

[17:38:13]

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[18:03:30]

RyeBrye:

Hmm... just out of curiosity – does the HD-PVR svideo input honor macrovision?

[18:03:52]

RyeBrye:

Obviously, it would only be standard def... but I wonder if that coudl be used to make backups of an aging VHS collection

[18:04:29]

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[18:07:55]

perlmonkey:

whats macrovision

[18:09:07]

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[18:11:20]

wagnerrp:

macrovision is where they futz with the analog sync timing on the signal

[18:11:23]

perlmonkey:

this all adds up to some bad ass perpetrators

[18:11:31]

perlmonkey:

oh

[18:11:56]

wagnerrp:

TVs dont care, but it results in a line repeatedly running down the screen on VCRs and other recording devices

[18:12:17]

perlmonkey:

wiw

[18:12:24]

perlmonkey:

wow

[18:12:29]

wagnerrp:

newer equipment is designed to recognize this mechanism and automatically shutdown (prevent recording)

[18:12:39]

perlmonkey:

like when u see a tv thru a camera? like on news

[18:12:44]

wagnerrp:

its an old tech from the early 80s

[18:12:55]

directhex:

macro macro man

[18:12:57]

directhex:

i wanna be

[18:13:00]

directhex:

a macro man

[18:13:14]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: no, that is just the camera capturing the e-beam drawing the screen

[18:13:35]

perlmonkey:

this is some weird shit, my wifi security camera is now displaying a perfect picture in mythtv frontend and i havent done a thing

[18:13:38]

wagnerrp:

unless the camera is perfectly synced to take a picture at the end of the draw cycle, youre going to get that issue

[18:13:43]

perlmonkey:

ok

[18:13:58]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: plug your dvd output into your vcr player, and then try to watch it on tv through your vcr

[18:14:00]

perlmonkey:

because...

[18:14:02]

wagnerrp:

thats macrovision

[18:14:32]

perlmonkey:

the human eyes/brain cant see the picture being displayed how it really is, like scanned line by line, but technology like cameras shows it how it is?

[18:14:47]

wagnerrp:

the human eye sees the entire image at once

[18:14:52]

perlmonkey:

yes

[18:15:03]

wagnerrp:

the difference is that the capture time of the eye is much slower than that of a CCD camera

[18:15:17]

perlmonkey:

thats why when u look at a tv thru a camera u see that line moving

[18:15:29]

wagnerrp:

the CCD camera captures one frame for a few hundred microseconds, and then does nothing until it needs another frame

[18:15:38]

wagnerrp:

whereas the eye averages the input over a much longer period

[18:15:49]

perlmonkey:

ok my picture is all messed up again

[18:15:56]

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[18:16:58]

perlmonkey:

back to ok again, weird how it keeps changing

[18:17:42]

wagnerrp:

the 'response rate' of the eye, if you want to call it that, is somewhere between 60Hz and 80Hz for the average person

[18:17:43]

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[18:18:27]

wagnerrp:

you have better response for b/w than you do color

[18:18:43]

wagnerrp:

so you can see movement better out of the sides of your eyes, than the center

[18:18:43]

perlmonkey:

another strange thing, if you look at infrared beam say from a tv remote thru your cameras lcd it shows up as a purple glow

[18:18:46]

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[18:18:48]

perlmonkey:

yet the eye sees nothing

[18:19:01]

wagnerrp:

thats not weird, the CCD can just pick up IR

[18:19:15]

perlmonkey:

so we humans are not as good as tech in many ways

[18:19:21]

wagnerrp:

anyway, you should be able to see flicker on an old CRT monitor at 60Hz straight on

[18:19:56]

wagnerrp:

you should definitely be able to see it from the side

[18:20:13]

wagnerrp:

thats the same flicker you see when you take a picture of the display

[18:20:13]

perlmonkey:

one more strange effect i noticed

[18:20:22]

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[18:20:39]

perlmonkey:

if you look at someone walking thru a blind or fence, they appear to be dwarfed/shrunk in size

[18:20:51]

perlmonkey:

the brain seems to not display reality properly

[18:21:18]

wagnerrp:

no idea what youre talking about

[18:21:31]

perlmonkey:

try it and see what i mean

[18:21:35]

perlmonkey:

its very strange

[18:22:16]

perlmonkey:

you can also get a strange effect if you look at lines on paper they appear to bend

[18:22:35]

wagnerrp:

do you wear glasses?

[18:22:41]

perlmonkey:

the lines have to be close together and you need to place an object infront of them

[18:22:43]

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[18:22:44]

perlmonkey:

no

[18:23:25]

wagnerrp:

ok, because the curvature of the lenses tends to warp the image slightly

[18:23:43]

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[18:23:46]

perlmonkey:

whenever the brain sees lines in the foreground or background an object it seems incapable of processing all the data

[18:24:04]

perlmonkey:

oh

[18:24:18]

perlmonkey:

thats what im describing I think, you said it perfectly

[18:24:38]

wagnerrp:

but you dont wear glasses, so thats not what im talking about

[18:24:48]

perlmonkey:

is that effect the same in everyone or more pronounced in people with poor eyesight?

[18:25:17]

wagnerrp:

its a function of corrective lenses set away from the eye, it doesnt manifest itself in people wearing contacts

[18:25:49]

perlmonkey:

interesting

[18:26:01]

wagnerrp:

not really, just basic optics

[18:26:44]

perlmonkey:

another curious thing teenagers and children can hear a much wider audio frequency range than the rest of us, human hearing seems to depreciate once you reach your 20s

[18:27:20]

perlmonkey:

a noise thats audible to them is inaudible to us

[18:27:49]

RyeBrye:

I think part of that is because throughout your life you experience permanent hearing loss

[18:28:02]

wagnerrp:

im still good up to about 18.5kHz

[18:28:15]

perlmonkey:

its constantly degrading then, doesnt just start dropping off after teen years?

[18:28:25]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: for the most part, it has nothing to do with environmental damage, just age

[18:28:52]

perlmonkey:

whats the max hearing range of dogs

[18:29:02]

wagnerrp:

much better than us

[18:29:04]

RyeBrye:

I would venture to guess that a child left in a soundproof room (and otherwise kept healthy) would have a greater range of hearing at 40 than a child who lives in a tent next to a busy set of railroad tracks would at 10 though

[18:29:08]

perlmonkey:

and does this degrade like humans

[18:29:19]

wagnerrp:

presumably

[18:29:59]

perlmonkey:

do dogs and cats see things like us in colour or do they have muted colours

[18:30:26]

perlmonkey:

cats have massive pupils much of the time

[18:30:26]

** iamlindoro_ wonders if any amount of scrollback will make this on-topic/make sense **

[18:30:48]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[18:30:51]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro_: nope

[18:31:27]

perlmonkey:

i had my eyes tested just recently and the optician put some drops in my eyes that made my pupils go very large and stay like it

[18:31:49]

perlmonkey:

things looked different, brighter and slightly washed out

[18:32:02]

perlmonkey:

thats why i got to thinking about cats

[18:32:33]

wagnerrp:

AFAIK, dogs have no cones, so no color vision

[18:32:44]

perlmonkey:

woah no colours at all, all mono

[18:32:49]

perlmonkey:

bizarre

[18:33:07]

wagnerrp:

cats, i dont know, but theyre adapted for night, so theyre probably see mostly, if not all, b/w

[18:33:45]

wagnerrp:

rods do light level, cones do color, but rods function much faster in low light and high speed applications

[18:33:46]

perlmonkey:

what test can we use on animals to see if they can distinguish colours?

[18:33:53]

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[18:34:15]

wagnerrp:

we cut open their retina, and see if they have something that responds to different colors

[18:34:33]

perlmonkey:

colour recognition without intelligence is difficult, can anyone think of such a test

[18:34:47]

perlmonkey:

phew thats a bit drastic, without killing the cat :P

[18:34:53]

iamlindoro_:

Cones in the eye are physiological, not mental

[18:34:58]

wagnerrp:

autopsy

[18:35:03]

iamlindoro_:

You ahve the receptors for a given color or you don't

[18:35:06]

iamlindoro_:

er have

[18:35:11]

perlmonkey:

i want to test my pet pigeon and pet squirrel

[18:35:23]

perlmonkey:

i did a test on pigeon to find out its sex

[18:36:13]

perlmonkey:

certain birds and other animals display certain behaviour when in the presence of another of their own species

[18:36:29]

wagnerrp:

im not sure its a good thing that youre experimenting with surveillance equipment

[18:36:37]

iamlindoro_:

Would have been simpler to jam a finger in the coupling organs

[18:36:38]

perlmonkey:

so i placed a mirror in front of my pigeon and sure enough he began to display and demonstrated male behaviour

[18:36:56]

perlmonkey:

wag: why?

[18:37:26]

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[18:37:36]

perlmonkey:

animals can be fooled into certain behaviour

[18:37:47]

** iamlindoro_ goes for a run and prays this is #mythtv-users when he comes back **

[18:37:52]

perlmonkey:

but colours, i cant think of a test

[18:38:11]

wagnerrp:

well you seem to be around 15, i just am a bit wary of someone that age putting up cameras everywhere

[18:38:26]

perlmonkey:

the question of whether animals can see colours came to me just recently..my pet squirrel keeps eating my tomatoes which is very annoying

[18:38:41]

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[18:38:50]

perlmonkey:

the curious thing is, he always eats them when they are green/unripe and spits it out and drops it

[18:39:10]

perlmonkey:

since hes made the same error many times im wondering whether he can see they are green/unripe

[18:39:31]

Saviq:

hi guys, anyone using svn? mythtv-setup has upgraded my db and now mythbackend from the same checkout won't start... is this a known issue

[18:39:31]

Saviq:

?

[18:39:38]

perlmonkey:

wag you're way off, im more than twice that age

[18:40:24]

** perlmonkey has channel 4 news in a window *with* audio **

[18:40:25]

wagnerrp:

you just seem too curious of completely off-topic issues

[18:40:37]

wagnerrp:

Saviq: what version?

[18:40:47]

perlmonkey:

im always hungry for information and finding out stuff, or gaining new data

[18:40:51]

Saviq:

revision 18380

[18:41:01]

wagnerrp:

on svn, you have 0.21, 0.21-fixes, trunk

[18:41:09]

wagnerrp:

revision is meaningless without a version

[18:41:13]

wagnerrp:

branch rather

[18:41:17]

Saviq:

trunk

[18:41:18]

AndyCap:

perlmonkey: two screens with buttons on them, button below the "right colour" dispenses food/treat. swap colours with buttons around.

[18:41:19]

Saviq:

sorry

[18:41:20]

perlmonkey:

maybe this isnt the place for gaining data

[18:41:46]

perlmonkey:

AndyCap: simple but ingenious!

[18:42:21]

perlmonkey:

i need to construct such a device for the squirrel to dispense nuts then

[18:43:02]

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[18:43:14]

wagnerrp:

what error are you getting

[18:43:20]

wagnerrp:

Saviq

[18:43:23]

AndyCap:

hmm, wonder if I have that videotape lying about still. an old late 80's early 90's show with animals doing stuff to get food out of machines

[18:43:33]

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[18:43:38]

perlmonkey:

:-]

[18:44:04]

perlmonkey:

chimps have demonstrated remarkable abilities even doing maths to get food from machines

[18:44:08]

Saviq:

wagnerrp: mythbackend complains that the db schema is too new

[18:45:45]

perlmonkey:

what makes chimps and other primates so incredibly strong compared to humans? the average adult chimp is 7x stronger than an adult human male, yet they are similiar size

[18:46:11]

wagnerrp:

because they need upper body strength to climb, we walk

[18:46:15]

AndyCap:

perlmonkey: they work out

[18:46:32]

perlmonkey:

so its purely the fact they are constantly using upper body muscles and more developed?

[18:46:36]

perlmonkey:

not diet?

[18:46:59]

wagnerrp:

theyre in good shape, and the need for upper body strength has been bred out of us

[18:47:09]

perlmonkey:

a chimp can pick a man up above his head and throw him several feet

[18:47:18]

AndyCap:

we invented spears and handguns instead.

[18:47:27]

wagnerrp:

we walk/run, so a large upper body is a detriment to mobility

[18:47:46]

perlmonkey:

humans are like the weaklings of all mammals on the planet, for our size?

[18:48:00]

Saviq:

wagnerrp: mythtv-setup has upgraded my db from 1214 to 1223

[18:48:05]

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[18:48:10]

perlmonkey:

even a cat or dog can wreck a human easy

[18:48:15]

Saviq:

after that, mythbackend doesn't stat

[18:48:18]

Saviq:

+r

[18:48:22]

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[18:48:30]

wagnerrp:

no cat or dog should ever cause you problems, ever

[18:48:45]

perlmonkey:

they can rip you to shreads

[18:48:54]

wagnerrp:

the only reason they give you grief is because you have some obligation not to hurt them

[18:48:59]

perlmonkey:

humans have no big sharp teeth, or claws, nothing for defence or attacking

[18:49:00]

AndyCap:

perlmonkey: then you're doing it wrong

[18:49:02]

wagnerrp:

if you dont mind hurting them, they cant hurt you

[18:49:14]

Saviq:

perlmonkey: except tanks

[18:49:16]

wagnerrp:

it doesnt take much to grab a head and twist

[18:49:20]

** gbee wonders if he's wandered into #planet-of-the-apes **

[18:49:25]

Saviq:

yeah

[18:49:28]

perlmonkey:

all our animals, even small ones like squirrels are fully equipped for killing or defence

[18:49:49]

wagnerrp:

so are we, its called a brain

[18:49:56]

Saviq:

perlmonkey: have you tried biting someone lately?

[18:49:57]

wagnerrp:

its worked for us so far

[18:49:57]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: well, might require some composure if you have a dog locked around your arm, but one should come out victorious

[18:50:09]

perlmonkey:

can a man twist and snap a dogs head, or will the dog savage him before he can

[18:50:23]

wagnerrp:

the dog has your arm, so what

[18:50:31]

wagnerrp:

punch its nose, poke its eyes, it will leave

[18:50:37]

perlmonkey:

the pain would be serve and you would be unable to fight the dog

[18:50:41]

AndyCap:

wagnerrp: care to say that again with an actual dog on your arm? :P

[18:50:41]

perlmonkey:

he would finish you

[18:50:52]

perlmonkey:

haha

[18:50:53]

perlmonkey:

yes

[18:50:56]

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[18:50:58]

perlmonkey:

but

[18:51:19]

perlmonkey:

when you're attacked by a dog and its snarling and showing all its teeth and tearing into your flesh, a human goes into shock I think

[18:51:36]

perlmonkey:

suddenly the dog is a wild fierce animal and you're out of your league

[18:51:39]

wagnerrp:

a human goes into shock because its afraid of the dog

[18:51:46]

perlmonkey:

yes

[18:51:50]

wagnerrp:

a human has no reason to be afraid of a dog

[18:51:51]

AndyCap:

adrenalin for teh win

[18:51:58]

perlmonkey:

animals dont have that fear instinct we do in that situation

[18:52:01]

Saviq:

and a human does have a thing called instinct, too

[18:52:02]

perlmonkey:

they will attack

[18:52:08]

wagnerrp:

same with a coyote (except in packs)

[18:52:17]

wagnerrp:

now a wolf is big enough to cause you serious trouble

[18:52:20]

Saviq:

that usually takes over given enough stress

[18:52:29]

perlmonkey:

i did an experiment once with a fierce dog that tried to attack me

[18:52:32]

** kormoc sighs **

[18:52:41]

perlmonkey:

and showed that humans can outwit dogs and make them afraid

[18:52:42]

kormoc:

this isn't #howToKickADogsAss

[18:53:14]

perlmonkey:

but arent dogs and wolfs similiar, only one is domesticated more

[18:53:25]

perlmonkey:

a dog can revert back to a wild wolf-like state

[18:53:31]

** kormoc eyes perlmonkey **

[18:53:36]

wagnerrp:

Saviq: i dont know why the database schema would be out of sync

[18:53:54]

wagnerrp:

i would try deleting your local tree, redownloading it, building, installing

[18:54:07]

wagnerrp:

and if you still have a problem, post a bug to track

[18:54:09]

perlmonkey:

its been seen that abandoned dogs begin to go around together in packs, and find food, much like wolves

[18:54:22]

perlmonkey:

and one is the leader

[18:54:27]

Gnea:

Hi all, I'm having a weird issue today (0.21) – when I record something, it typically saves the mpeg file just fine – but today, I noticed that it was suddenly saving in the .nuv format and at 16:9 instead of the usually .mpeg at 4:3. The only thing that's changed, AFAIK, was an apt-get upgrade (Ubuntu 8.04.1) and none of the mythtv packages were modified.. I've never seen something like this before and am wondering how it can be fixed, as I've checke

[18:54:33]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: its been seen that humans do the same thing

[18:54:45]

wagnerrp:

pack of humans, pack of dogs... humans win

[18:54:46]

perlmonkey:

really? ive never seen that in humans

[18:54:51]

Saviq:

hmm wagnerrp it seems that I've some leftovers from a previous install...

[18:54:57]

** kormoc wonders what part of 'You are very off topic and shouldn't continue" perlmonkey doesn't understand **

[18:55:12]

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[18:55:15]

AndyCap:

kormoc: you're not a dog. :)

[18:55:29]

perlmonkey:

kormoc i have aspergers symdrone

[18:55:30]

wagnerrp:

your family is a pack, your friends are a pack, cities are a pack, all of society is a pack

[18:55:49]

Dagmar:

...unless your friends are a pack of boobs.

[18:55:50]

wagnerrp:

we group for survival just like a dog

[18:55:57]

Gnea:

perlmonkey: you know, humans can be conditioned to react without fear. but i'm wondering if maybe you could help me with my problem.

[18:56:04]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp has never played any MMOs

[18:56:05]

perlmonkey:

i guess so when you put it like that

[18:56:07]

** kormoc thinks this is a losing battle **

[18:56:15]

perlmonkey:

Gnea shoot

[18:56:20]

Gnea:

Hi all, I'm having a weird issue today (0.21) – when I record something, it typically saves the mpeg file just fine – but today, I noticed that it was suddenly saving in the .nuv format and at 16:9 instead of the usually .mpeg at 4:3. The only thing that's changed, AFAIK, was an apt-get upgrade (Ubuntu 8.04.1) and none of the mythtv packages were modified.. I've never seen something like this before and am wondering how it can be fixed, as I've checke

[18:56:34]

kormoc:

Gnea, no need to repeat yourself

[18:56:35]

wagnerrp:

Gnea: is it possible you turned on transcoding?

[18:56:37]

Dagmar:

Gnea: Repasting that wall of text isn't going to make anyone pay more attention

[18:56:43]

Gnea:

kormoc: sorry, he asked me to.

[18:56:50]

perlmonkey:

thats a strange one

[18:57:02]

Dagmar:

It's being transcoded.

[18:57:13]

wagnerrp:

mpeg encoders and digital tuners will ALWAYS record to mpeg

[18:57:21]

kormoc:

Gnea, no he didn't, he just didn't read, you can tell people to check their scrollback

[18:57:22]

wagnerrp:

frame grabbers will ALWAYS record to nuv

[18:57:29]

perlmonkey:

transcoded

[18:57:33]

wagnerrp:

theres nothing an upgrade will do to change that

[18:57:39]

Gnea:

kormoc: can we please move on? it won't happen again.

[18:57:44]

perlmonkey:

some settings must of changed

[18:57:54]

Gnea:

okay, i'll check that

[18:58:11]

perlmonkey:

my mythtv records in mpg always i can see the files

[18:59:04]

perlmonkey:

why cant you take screen captures of paused mythtv frontend window, is it because the picture is being overlayed and isnt a real video?

[18:59:43]

wagnerrp:

with xv, the video is being rendered by the video card, rather than x-windows

[18:59:51]

perlmonkey:

well so much for my home delivery service from Abel & Cole

[18:59:56]

perlmonkey:

no dinner for me

[19:00:13]

perlmonkey:

ah

[19:00:44]

perlmonkey:

A reminder has popped up in my window, Voyager is about to start

[19:01:03]

perlmonkey:

you guys will finally get some peace and quiet and no more ot ramblings from me

[19:01:07]

wagnerrp:

they have people you can call for that problem

[19:01:18]

wagnerrp:

theyre called chinese

[19:01:36]

perlmonkey:

chinese people are everywhere

[19:01:51]

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[19:01:59]

perlmonkey:

but japanese less so

[19:02:39]

wagnerrp:

you dont seem to get the concept... (chinese takeout)

[19:02:57]

perlmonkey:

i got cable tv on mythtv over wifi (54mbps)

[19:03:00]

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[19:03:07]

perlmonkey:

ive never used takeout before

[19:03:14]

wagnerrp:

thats fantastic, never upgrade to HD

[19:03:20]

perlmonkey:

i wont do hd

[19:03:29]

perlmonkey:

i still have an old crt tv

[19:03:37]

wagnerrp:

you will not be happy (802.11g cannot handle it)

[19:03:45]

perlmonkey:

and my capture cards are analog but i do have a dvb one i got recently to try

[19:04:19]

perlmonkey:

i was using 11b but it couldnt hack mythtv properly, it was almost ok but occasional dropping of frames

[19:05:26]

perlmonkey:

have any of you guys done any indepth comparison/review of mythtv and hdd recorders

[19:06:52]

perlmonkey:

think ive been disconnected

[19:06:55]

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[19:09:26]

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[19:11:52]

clever:

umm mythbackend has gone clinicaly insane

[19:12:00]

clever:

it cant connect to mysql yet mysql is just fine

[19:12:20]

clever:

so it goes and fills the log with the same question 5000 times

[19:12:44]

clever:

which defaulted to insane values causing it to get screwed up even more

[19:14:31]

dustybin:

my frontend just quit

[19:15:13]

dustybin:

clever: are you having 2nd thoughts with regards to this mythtv malarky

[19:15:30]

clever:

?

[19:15:41]

dustybin:

windows mce ftw :P

[19:15:47]

clever:

lol

[19:16:07]

Gnea:

thanks guys, found it in the transcode settings – it somehow was set to use rtjpeg instead of mpeg4.

[19:17:51]

** iamlindoro_ thinks the channel returned to normal while he was gone. Damn alternate universe pockets! **

[19:18:30]

Gnea:

what is this 'normal' you speak of?

[19:18:42]

clever:

2008-09–23 01:03:31.728 Cannot login to database?

[19:19:07]

dustybin:

clever: how big is your mythtv network?

[19:19:10]

iamlindoro_:

yep, it's normal. Clever broke something. Definitely normal.

[19:19:20]

wagnerrp:

na, everyone stopped talking, and perl lost interest

[19:19:27]

clever:

dustybin: 5 systems on right now

[19:19:31]

dustybin:

let me guess, 4 backends, 6 slaves, 10 frontends

[19:19:36]

clever:

Database error was:

[19:19:36]

clever:

Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading authorization packet', system error: 0

[19:19:44]

clever:

5 backends total

[19:19:45]

iamlindoro_:

And not one more powerful than a DX4 100

[19:19:47]

Gnea:

clever: are you sure the password didn't get changed? firewall?

[19:19:54]

dustybin:

5 BACKENDS?!!!!!!!!! WTF

[19:20:00]

clever:

Gnea: the server was local and the password never changed

[19:20:07]

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[19:20:11]

clever:

dustybin: only 1 of those has a card to capture with

[19:20:16]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: he just runs a backend on every machine he owns

[19:20:22]

clever:

but the stupid part

[19:20:22]

dustybin:

LOL

[19:20:26]

clever:

Database host name:

[19:20:26]

clever:

[console is not interactive, using default '']

[19:20:31]

clever:

it just fucked itself in the ass

[19:20:38]

clever:

making it imposible to ever reconnect

[19:20:39]

Gnea:

that's a neat trick

[19:20:43]

wagnerrp:

he needs moar puny girrly machines to transmacode

[19:21:07]

dustybin:

clever: are you any good with mysql

[19:21:14]

clever:

dustybin: yes

[19:23:01]

dustybin:

clever: i can imagine you in your room thinking about a different subject every few minutes, then throwing lots of paper and books around finding out how to do things, then moving onto something else

[19:23:31]

clever:

but why the heck would mythbackend up and change the database host to '' when it fails to connect once

[19:23:35]

iamlindoro_:

Why don't you just stroke his shaft until you get a sweet surprise

[19:23:44]

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[19:23:48]

iamlindoro_:

oh clever, you so craaaazy

[19:23:55]

Gnea:

clever: enough hd space?

[19:24:10]

clever:

Gnea: over 113mb

[19:24:14]

dustybin:

clever: then at the end of the night, you would be slumped against your wall, with your glasses on wonky, with a crack in a lense, and steam coming out your ears

[19:24:33]

iamlindoro_:

clever, don't look now, dustybin is in love with you

[19:24:41]

clever:

i do have a pair of glasses with a cracked lense....

[19:24:54]

iamlindoro_:

He knows because he's camping out across from your house

[19:25:03]

dustybin:

lol

[19:25:08]

clever:

then why dont i see a tent:P

[19:25:20]

Gnea:

LOL

[19:25:44]

clever:

and the wifi signal isnt that good out in the front lawn

[19:25:45]

wagnerrp:

its camouflaged in old computer boxes

[19:25:58]

clever:

youll have trouble even getting on irc

[19:26:22]

clever:

done scannign the logs, mythbackend failed to connect 154,188 times

[19:26:33]

clever:

all because of 1 timeout like error and a stupid default

[19:27:07]

dustybin:

clever puts software into configurations one could never imagine

[19:27:23]

clever:

this part of the code is still in defaults

[19:27:33]

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[19:28:08]

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[19:28:46]

clever:

but it wont be for long

[19:29:08]

dustybin:

clever: when you get a moment test out playing a DVD movie with mythtv

[19:29:17]

wagnerrp:

clever installed a randomize filter into gcc

[19:29:20]

dustybin:

not a rip, the ISO

[19:29:20]

clever:

i dont have a dvd drive in any frontends

[19:29:26]

dustybin:

ok

[19:29:29]

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[19:32:19]

skerit:

A multirec question: Is the "Max recordings" property a "new" name for the "virtual cards"?

[19:32:44]

wagnerrp:

where do you see that option?

[19:33:20]

skerit:

Capture cards > DVB Capture Card > Recording options

[19:33:44]

wagnerrp:

ah, yes. i would assume so

[19:34:59]

skerit:

Ok. Seems the most logical thing to me, but that setting is still a bit confusing.

[19:35:34]

iamlindoro_:

It's not a new name, but rather, the only name it's ever been

[19:35:52]

iamlindoro_:

and yes, it's the # of encoders myth will list the physical interface as w/ a multirec capable card

[19:36:01]

wagnerrp:

digital transmissions allow multiple streams in one transport stream

[19:36:02]

skerit:

Really? Then what is this "virtual tuner" thing I'm reading about?

[19:36:15]

wagnerrp:

a tuner card feeds the entire transport stream to the computer

[19:36:21]

iamlindoro_:

Depends on where you're reading it

[19:36:28]

iamlindoro_:

but Max recordings has always been the setting name

[19:36:30]

wagnerrp:

thats just the maximum number of subchannels youre allowing mythtv to capture at once

[19:36:49]

iamlindoro_:

one can call them virtual tuners if one likes, but the setting name is Max recordings

[19:37:14]

skerit:

Very well

[19:37:16]

wagnerrp:

although i dont know what purpose there would be to limit it, unless you dont thin your disk subsystem can handle the load of all those captures

[19:37:36]

iamlindoro_:

wagnerrp: Some DVB devices have very limted PID filtering, apparently

[19:37:45]

wagnerrp:

but then if you cant handle 19mbps, you have issues

[19:37:47]

skerit:

Exactly ... It would be handy if you could just "enable" the multirec option

[19:37:47]

wagnerrp:

ah

[19:38:11]

iamlindoro_:

and I guess on those it's important to crank it down or risk crashing (whether that's the driver or altogether, I don't know)

[19:38:17]

iamlindoro_:

skerit: You can.

[19:38:25]

iamlindoro_:

Set Max recordings to 1. Multirec is off.

[19:38:31]

iamlindoro_:

Set it to any other number, multirec is on.

[19:38:43]

wagnerrp:

just set it to 30 or so, and youll never have to worry

[19:38:57]

iamlindoro_:

Well, you'll have to worry about hacking the code :)

[19:39:03]

iamlindoro_:

as the max in the stock code is 5

[19:39:06]

wagnerrp:

it only allows single digits?

[19:39:07]

wagnerrp:

ah

[19:39:09]

iamlindoro_:

but it can easily be changed

[19:39:23]

iamlindoro_:

I know justinh and GreyFoxx have had it up quite a bit higher

[19:39:39]

GreyFoxx:

I had mine set to 8

[19:39:55]

GreyFoxx:

on an amd xp2400 with a single QAM card

[19:40:14]

** perlmonkey tries to invent something **

[19:40:51]

GreyFoxx:

I had a little birdie whisper in my ear that the QAM channels I cared abaout might be unencrypted again

[19:41:03]

GreyFoxx:

so I'm gonna be testing that when I get home and likely put the card back into use :)

[19:41:44]

perlmonkey:

GreyFoxx: was that little birdie grey or black with an orange beak

[19:41:55]

wagnerrp:

i recently switched back to QAM from ATSC and found two more channels than the last time i did a scan

[19:42:04]

GreyFoxx:

It was black and had telephone buttons on it :)

[19:42:10]

perlmonkey:

:D

[19:42:17]

wagnerrp:

the white trash network, and horse racing tv

[19:42:22]

GreyFoxx:

wag: Are you the one with a 2250 with the dual analog tuners/encoders ?

[19:42:26]

perlmonkey:

i dont have a telephone

[19:42:28]

wagnerrp:

nope

[19:42:30]

GreyFoxx:

k

[19:43:05]

skerit:

Ok, my other big question now :) I have 3 DVB-S2 tuner cards. Each of them have access to 4 satellites through disecq (Astra 1, 2, 3 & Hotbird). I have created 4 videosources (Astra 1, 2, 3 & hotbird). I have linked every disecq port to their appropriate videosources

[19:43:45]

wagnerrp:

then your SOL, because mythtv does not yet support S2

[19:43:45]

perlmonkey:

the telephone isn't much different to two cans and a bit of string, the only difference is people call you on the telephone all the time and its most annoying

[19:44:00]

skerit:

But still, when I watch something on Astra 1 and a recording starts on astra 2 livetv will swich to that channel and "lock me out". I CAN switch to another video source through the menu, but that' snot very user friendly

[19:44:08]

wagnerrp:

unless that has changed

[19:44:13]

skerit:

and the people I'm building this for won't ever understand

[19:44:56]

skerit:

Oh, and it's not a question about S2 channels. The card is working perfectly

[19:45:01]

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[19:45:04]

perlmonkey:

when i attempt to record BBC broadcasts on hdd recorder from my cable box, it says this content cannot be recorded.. will the same appear if I try to record it directly in mythtv?

[19:45:05]

wagnerrp:

oh, s2 is supported, its just not 8psk

[19:45:30]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: no, no broadcast flags of any kind are respected in Myth

[19:45:36]

perlmonkey:

how does it know I'm trying to record it?

[19:45:45]

wagnerrp:

the broadcast flag

[19:46:01]

wagnerrp:

it tells your dvr machine not to record it

[19:46:01]

perlmonkey:

oh this is BBC on demand im speaking about btw, not live broadcasts

[19:46:06]

perlmonkey:

sheesh

[19:46:15]

perlmonkey:

and that's legal?

[19:46:30]

perlmonkey:

why do manufacturers put that shit in?

[19:46:34]

RyeBrye:

Anyone know if there is anyone working on adding HD archiving to mytharchive?

[19:46:34]

RyeBrye:

i.e burning AVCHD -> DVD?

[19:46:34]

** RyeBrye is too lazy to search track **

[19:46:49]

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[19:46:53]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: mytharchive cant manage that?

[19:47:02]

iamlindoro_:

RyeBrye: I don't think anyone's done anything about that

[19:47:07]

wagnerrp:

oh, you actually want the DVD video to be HD?

[19:47:12]

neb__:

hi there, i'm having some issues trying to play back dvds with mythvideo, are you able to support additional plugins?

[19:47:23]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: manufacturers and content providers are in collusion the world over

[19:47:32]

perlmonkey:

that sucks

[19:47:39]

neb__:

specifically, the menus where you chose languages and so on don't appear properly

[19:48:40]

iamlindoro_:

neb__: This channel provides support for official plugins... if it's one of those, ask away

[19:49:39]

neb__:

cool, basically i can't view menus on dvds properly, and sometimes after the copyright warning the dvd player craps out and i go back to the normal mythtv menus

[19:50:01]

neb__:

just wondering if this is a known issue or there's a common fix?

[19:50:27]

iamlindoro_:

neb__: Are you running .21-fixes, or just .21?

[19:50:35]

iamlindoro_:

ie, how did you install myth, and on what platform

[19:50:46]

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[19:50:48]

wagnerrp:

i thought mythvideo just passed everything over to xine, or was that just old versions?

[19:50:53]

neb__:

0.21+fixes

[19:51:02]

neb__:

ubuntu, intrepid

[19:51:10]

neb__:

wagnerrp: it has an internal player for dvds

[19:51:11]

iamlindoro_:

wagnerrp: Mythvideo by default uses the Internal player like verything else

[19:51:41]

iamlindoro_:

neb__: OK, so it's up to date (although it's silly to be running Intrepid yet, but that never stops anyone...)

[19:51:50]

neb__:

iamlindoro_: don't really have a choice :)

[19:51:50]

kormoc:

wagnerrp, you can set mythvideo to use the internal player, or any external command you want

[19:51:53]

iamlindoro_:

Could be it's just a DVD with the nasty copy protection

[19:52:09]

iamlindoro_:

ie ArcOSS or similar, where bad blocks are inserted

[19:52:11]

neb__:

iamlindoro_: intrepid has support for hdmi on this board

[19:52:29]

wagnerrp:

kormoc: ok, ive just still got the original settings in mine from my original install so many years ago

[19:52:36]

iamlindoro_:

neb__: Only if you need someone to package it up nice for you-- I promise you you could have gotten that on a released version

[19:52:44]

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[19:52:46]

dustybin:

mythvideo uses mplayer by default, not the internal

[19:52:52]

dustybin:

i had to set that manually

[19:52:55]

wagnerrp:

neb__: that should be a function of your video driver, not your OS

[19:52:57]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: wrong-o

[19:53:03]

dustybin:

nope right-o

[19:53:03]

GreyFoxx:

He's right

[19:53:12]

GreyFoxx:

It's mplayer for "videos" Internal for DVD's

[19:53:17]

GreyFoxx:

Though Expect to see that change

[19:53:26]

neb__:

actually, well – alsa/intel both had to roll out fixes

[19:53:33]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: only on packaged versions, no? I was fairly certain I saw Anduin had commited changes to the DB code to make all internal by default

[19:54:03]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: the only issue im having with myhtv at the moment is when the internal player plays a DVD / ISO, the video plays fast then slow, out of sync

[19:54:05]

GreyFoxx:

Nah, it;s in the code

[19:54:20]

dustybin:

GreyFoxx: if i rip that iso into a mp4, it plays fine

[19:54:22]

GreyFoxx:

But it will likely be changing soon

[19:54:47]

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[19:55:16]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . /dbcheck.cpp

[19:55:20]

plb_:

hm myth seemed to have stopped working saying Access denied for user 'localhost'@'localhost' (using password: YES)

[19:55:25]

iamlindoro_:

Isn't that the setup for video types in mythvideo?

[19:55:57]

wagnerrp:

plb_: the default user is 'mythtv', unless youve changed that yourself

[19:56:04]

plb_:

i didnt'

[19:56:08]

plb_:

how can i change that back?

[19:56:23]

plb_:

dunno how it got like that

[19:56:40]

GreyFoxx:

iaml: There was a db update, changing settings for the dvd player

[19:56:50]

GreyFoxx:

but in the code, the default for the video player is mplayer

[19:57:02]

iamlindoro_:

blech, though that had gotten changed

[19:57:05]

iamlindoro_:

thought

[19:57:08]

GreyFoxx:

it will be

[19:57:11]

neb__:

iamlindoro_: i guess your right, it must be copy protection

[19:57:12]

mchou:

Is there a way to disable a tuner in myth w/o removing it from myth?

[19:57:53]

GreyFoxx:

mchou: Closet would be to remove it's attachment to a video source (go to input connections in mythtv-setup and unconnect the input from the program guide source)

[19:58:00]

GreyFoxx:

that should work

[19:58:22]

mchou:

GreyFoxx: ok, sounds good

[19:58:33]

wagnerrp:

plb_: ~/.mythtv/config.xml and ~/.mythtv/mysql.txt

[19:58:34]

GreyFoxx:

then restart mythbackend

[19:58:45]

plb_:

yeah figured it out..thanks

[19:58:56]

mchou:

GreyFoxx: yeah :)

[19:59:20]

neb__:

also, i don't suppose the maintainer of the ubuntu myth packages happens to reside around here?

[19:59:20]

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[20:01:10]

iamlindoro_:

He resides in #ubuntu-mythtv, and yes, often here too

[20:02:54]

neb__:

ah, i'm just wonder if the package is broken on intrepid, or well it seems to install but dpkg seems to spaff out a warning

[20:03:31]

iamlindoro_:

Would be better to ask in #ubuntu-mythtv, and to pstebin the error for them too

[20:03:45]

neb__:

cool, ta =)

[20:04:48]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: Yeah, it was only changed in every meaningful sense, yes mplayer appears somewhere, most would never know as it would require them doing something to actually invoke it.

[20:05:07]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin: ah, ok

[20:05:44]

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[20:05:46]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin: I submitted an inconsequential little patch to add recognition of more file types by default, by the way... any argument against having most of the common file types by default?

[20:06:00]

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[20:06:39]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: Not from me (argument), I probably won't get to any tickets until the branch is merged though.

[20:06:51]

iamlindoro_:

yeah, understood

[20:07:36]

Anduin:

(it is a great excuse, way better than I'm lazy, thanks Stuart!)

[20:07:48]

iamlindoro_:

hehe

[20:08:22]

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[20:09:15]

** Anduin just reads the dev channel and learns the excuse won't work much longer **

[20:10:31]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[20:12:43]

** perlmonkey gives GreyFoxx full spectrum protein **

[20:14:13]

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[20:14:14]

iamlindoro_:

echidna toolbox botched fireball aircraft carrier?

[20:14:26]

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[20:14:31]

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[20:14:33]

iamlindoro_:

<--- Tries to fit in with the nonsens

[20:14:35]

iamlindoro_:

nonsense

[20:14:57]

wagnerrp:

ugh, tvrage botched my metadata for seaquest

[20:15:31]

iamlindoro_:

It's a punishment for watching Seaquest

[20:15:50]

wagnerrp:

hey, lay off my childhood memories... :P

[20:17:25]

wagnerrp:

anyway, they have the episode ordering wrong

[20:17:38]

wagnerrp:

so all the metadata is subsequently wrong

[20:18:10]

iamlindoro_:

I tease, totally watched it as a teenager/tween

[20:18:40]

iamlindoro_:

Until it got weird/Ham Tyler became the captain

[20:18:54]

** iamlindoro_ wonders if anyone gets the Hamm Tyler reference **

[20:20:24]

wagnerrp:

never saw V

[20:20:59]

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[20:21:08]

wagnerrp:

i didnt manage to catch it from my crib

[20:21:13]

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[20:21:37]

iamlindoro_:

Hey hey

[20:21:42]

iamlindoro_:

let's not being calling folks old

[20:22:08]

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[20:26:36]

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[20:28:11]

wagnerrp:

can i safely delete entries from videometadata?

[20:28:40]

wagnerrp:

actually, when i change the episode names, the video manager should take care of that for me anyway

[20:31:17]

perlmonkey:

kung fu or twilight zone, which series you guy like best

[20:31:22]

perlmonkey:

*guys

[20:31:39]

wagnerrp:

having never intently watched either, i cant say

[20:31:44]

perlmonkey:

:-O

[20:31:57]

perlmonkey:

never watch Rod Serling's twilight zone?

[20:32:06]

perlmonkey:

c'mon

[20:32:19]

wagnerrp:

ive seen parts of reruns on scifi channel

[20:32:34]

perlmonkey:

Kung Fu, was a classic series from the 1970s, it ran for 3 seasons

[20:33:33]

perlmonkey:

it was about a shaolin monk who came to US in search of his brother in late 19th century

[20:33:50]

wagnerrp:

i was more of an outer limits person, but then ive only seen parts of episodes of that too

[20:34:15]

perlmonkey:

the outer limits, i watched that in 1990s but thought it was a pale imitation of the twilight zone

[20:34:41]

perlmonkey:

also the modern version of the twilight zone, was not as good as the original 60s series I think

[20:34:59]

perlmonkey:

rod serling was an awesome writrer

[20:35:03]

wagnerrp:

the twilight zone was just weird occurrences to normal people

[20:35:09]

perlmonkey:

yes

[20:35:32]

perlmonkey:

the twilight zone was pitched/intended as sci-fi series

[20:35:35]

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[20:35:52]

perlmonkey:

but some of the stories were just unusual

[20:36:14]

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[20:37:14]

mythuseril:

hi everyone i'm having an issue using mythstream and the shoutcast plugin. i am when i attempt to browse streams things get stuck at "buffering" with no streaming ever occuring. has anyone run into this? apple trailers etc work just fine

[20:38:09]

wagnerrp:

mythstream is not heavily used

[20:38:20]

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[20:38:24]

wagnerrp:

so few people are going to have experience with it

[20:38:49]

perlmonkey:

i tried using mythweb and mytharchive

[20:39:06]

perlmonkey:

had more success with mythweb but found it not complete

[20:39:51]

wagnerrp:

what more do you want?

[20:40:02]

perlmonkey:

*shrugs*

[20:40:21]

wagnerrp:

if its not complete, it has to be missing something you want

[20:40:30]

perlmonkey:

well

[20:40:41]

wagnerrp:

off hand, the only big feature i could see is livetv streaming

[20:41:09]

perlmonkey:

maybe i just installed it incorrectly or didnt use it properly, but i was not able to record stuff over the web or access files from my media archive

[20:41:09]

wagnerrp:

maybe have optional pages to speed things up

[20:41:13]

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[20:41:20]

perlmonkey:

i could browse the archive lists and the EPG tho

[20:41:25]

perlmonkey:

which was pretty cool

[20:41:41]

iamlindoro_:

You set it up or were using it wrong indeed

[20:41:47]

perlmonkey:

ok

[20:41:48]

wagnerrp:

if anything works, messing with the schedules should work

[20:41:58]

wagnerrp:

it needs no user setup

[20:42:00]

iamlindoro_:

as you can both schedule recordings and access your media from mythweb

[20:42:18]

perlmonkey:

does livetv work over the web?

[20:42:22]

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[20:42:27]

iamlindoro_:

No.

[20:42:27]

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[20:42:41]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, if you have enough bandwidth, we don't restrict it

[20:42:51]

perlmonkey:

i think thats what i wanted to work, so i could let friends in other countries watch UK tv programs

[20:42:54]

wagnerrp:

as far as accessing your media, recordings, mythmusic, and mythvideo are all accessible if set up properly

[20:42:57]

perlmonkey:

oh

[20:43:11]

wagnerrp:

weather is also available

[20:43:22]

iamlindoro_:

There's nothing stopping you from starting a recording of something going on now and immediately going to watch it

[20:43:23]

xris:

perlmonkey: just don't talk about illegal stuff like that here.....

[20:43:35]

perlmonkey:

:-O

[20:43:42]

** perlmonkey looks around **

[20:43:53]

wagnerrp:

distributing recordings to anyone other than yourself is illegal

[20:43:57]

wagnerrp:

its an illegal broadcast

[20:44:07]

perlmonkey:

fuk em, i pay a tv license

[20:44:18]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, but if you do talk about that in here, you will be banned

[20:44:20]

perlmonkey:

that gives me some rights to use the content, no?

[20:44:24]

wagnerrp:

you pay a license to use the content

[20:44:37]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: It doesn't give you the right to redistribute

[20:44:40]

wagnerrp:

someone else youre sending to is not paying to use the content, hence they cannot use it

[20:44:40]

xris:

perlmonkey: yes.. you pay a license to watch TV. you have *not* paid a license to rebroadcast that even to your neighbors, let alone out of the country.

[20:45:05]

xris:

regardless of that, though.. it's a verboten topic here.

[20:45:12]

iamlindoro_:

And the ban on discussing that stuff is non-negotiable

[20:45:17]

iamlindoro_:

so best to drop it

[20:45:21]

Ricerind:

perlmonkey: That's like saying a license to do one thing gives you free reign to do whatever you want.

[20:45:44]

perlmonkey:

well i just said one specific thing not anything and everything :P

[20:46:02]

Ricerind:

perlmonkey: You know what I mean.

[20:46:13]

xris:

regardled.. just please respect the channel rules.

[20:46:19]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: drop it.

[20:46:27]

perlmonkey:

if you have a license to keep a dog, you expect to be able to take your dog outdoors eh

[20:46:38]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: last warning

[20:46:40]

Ricerind:

perlmonkey: Drop it.

[20:47:02]

wagnerrp:

if you want to complain, write to your MP

[20:47:27]

perlmonkey:

why not go higher

[20:47:57]

wagnerrp:

because chances are anything you send is going to get ignored anyway

[20:47:58]

perlmonkey:

dont go to the monkey go to the organ grinder :P

[20:48:06]

Ricerind:

Basically you would be allowing people to watch TV without paying, which I think would qualify as defrauding the service provider.

[20:48:16]

xris:

perlmonkey: that's like saying that just because you have a driver's license, you could go joy riding down an airport runway. Sure, you *might* be physically able to do it, but there would be consequences.. and the license is completely unrelated. Your UK license fee is to *watch* tv, not broadcast it.

[20:48:23]

perlmonkey:

you tell me not to discuss it yet you continue to go on about it and engage me on it?

[20:48:44]

** xris recommends (to everyone) to just drop the discussion so we don't keep going in these circles. **

[20:48:46]

wagnerrp:

i merely said go elsewhere with it

[20:49:04]

perlmonkey:

that was intended for Ricerind

[20:49:09]

** Ricerind drops out **

[20:49:29]

perlmonkey:

i really object to paying a tv license at all tho

[20:49:37]

perlmonkey:

is it the same in other countries?

[20:49:57]

kormoc:

I just have to pay for the content

[20:49:57]

iamlindoro_:

Nope

[20:50:01]

wagnerrp:

over here in the US, we are subjected to commercials instead

[20:50:05]

iamlindoro_:

not forced to, anyway

[20:50:13]

xris:

perlmonkey: in the US, the fees are paid by the advertisers.

[20:50:13]

kormoc:

I pay for the content + have commercials

[20:50:14]

perlmonkey:

i wouldnt mind paying the license fee if the money was used fairly and shared between all tv channels

[20:50:16]

iamlindoro_:

but yes, like kormoc says, we pay for our content too

[20:50:22]

xris:

or you pay for cable...

[20:50:25]

xris:

or satellite.

[20:50:25]

Ricerind:

Though actually just now I was talking about you making a complaint, which was not encouraging you. As for the TV license I agree that it's annoying.

[20:50:32]

perlmonkey:

i think the BBC offers poor service for the money they get from license fees

[20:50:32]

wagnerrp:

if you pay enough for the content (i.e. HBO, skinimax) you have no commercials

[20:50:43]

Ricerind:

There's barely anything worth watching on the BBC.

[20:50:53]

xris:

wagnerrp: you still get product placement, though.

[20:50:57]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, hell, I pay extra just to watch bbc, because it's better then most of my stuff

[20:51:03]

perlmonkey:

true indeed, it sucks.. so where does all those billions? go from tv license fee revenue

[20:51:07]

wagnerrp:

perhaps, but thats not interruptive

[20:51:09]

perlmonkey:

certainly not in good program content

[20:51:17]

iamlindoro_:

It could be worse, they could make you watch Heroes

[20:51:18]

** kormoc thinks you brits are spoiled **

[20:51:19]

xris:

Ricerind: really? life on mars, ashes to ashes, jeckyl, being human.....

[20:51:31]

kormoc:

Dr. Who...

[20:51:33]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[20:51:36]

xris:

that one, too. :)

[20:51:37]

perlmonkey:

kormoc how so?

[20:51:41]

Ricerind:

Life on Mars and Dr. Who are good

[20:51:45]

Ricerind:

That's about it.

[20:51:53]

xris:

Ricerind: jeckyl was awesome

[20:52:00]

perlmonkey:

every now and again the BBC produces some good screenplays and dramas

[20:52:00]

Ricerind:

I didn't watch it.

[20:52:10]

perlmonkey:

but most of the time its soap operas and repeats

[20:53:11]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, I have to pay extra to get BBC, and it's better then 90% of my channels by far

[20:53:12]

perlmonkey:

the BBC is not just tv tho i guess its a corporation that covers every inch of the UK and all forms of media

[20:53:23]

kothog__ is now known as kothog

[20:53:35]

perlmonkey:

:-O

[20:53:46]

perlmonkey:

pay extra to get BBC?!

[20:53:59]

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[20:54:02]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, Aye

[20:54:13]

perlmonkey:

you're outside the UK i guess?

[20:54:26]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, aye, which is why I said you brits are spoiled :P

[20:54:31]

perlmonkey:

can't you get BBC World Service or whatever its called

[20:54:48]

iamlindoro_:

BBC America is a joke, if that's what you mean

[20:54:51]

kormoc:

for a extra fee, aye

[20:55:04]

perlmonkey:

phew

[20:55:39]

perlmonkey:

theres new digital BBC channels in UK but they are only broadcast from 7pm to 12am and even then theres nothing on

[20:56:24]

perlmonkey:

once in the UK it was only BBC (2 channels) and ITV, i remember that as a kid

[20:56:39]

iamlindoro_:

hd != Digital, Digital != HD

[20:56:39]

perlmonkey:

ITV was a new channel had only been around a few years when i was born

[20:56:56]

iamlindoro_:

BBCHD is what you are talking about, and yes, it's digital, but so are all the normal BBCs/ITVs/etc

[20:57:02]

perlmonkey:

the gov controlled the BBC and still have some influence over it

[20:57:12]

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[20:57:38]

perlmonkey:

what about BBC3 and BBC4

[20:57:42]

perlmonkey:

and BBC Prime

[20:57:59]

iamlindoro_:

What about them? Still digital

[20:58:06]

perlmonkey:

still nothing on

[20:58:15]

iamlindoro_:

Everything you get via DVB-T is digital. 100%

[20:58:15]

perlmonkey:

value for money?

[20:58:39]

perlmonkey:

ITV is going downhill too thats a sinking ship

[20:58:58]

iamlindoro_:

You pay the equivalent of $12 a month for TV. At that cost it might as well be free.

[20:59:03]

Ricerind:

All they have now are vote'em'off shows.

[20:59:24]

perlmonkey:

im paying like £5.50 a month for my cable TV service which gives me about 30 odd channels

[20:59:58]

iamlindoro_:

Guess someone needs to set up freesat then, don't they?

[20:59:58]

perlmonkey:

in dollars whats that... $10 bucks

[21:00:04]

perlmonkey:

aye

[21:00:11]

iamlindoro_:

No, it's closer to $12–13

[21:00:25]

perlmonkey:

the dollar is strong now, its $1.80 to £1

[21:00:39]

iamlindoro_:

Hmm, I stand corrected, $10.20 right now

[21:00:44]

xris:

perlmonkey: strong vs the gbp — still fairly weak vs euro

[21:00:50]

perlmonkey:

true

[21:00:56]

perlmonkey:

the euro is getting stronger and stronger

[21:01:37]

xris:

fwiw, I spend about $50/month for my tv.

[21:01:50]

iamlindoro_:

Wheeeee, freeeeee freeee freeeeeeeeeeeeee http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-Kingdom.html

[21:01:52]

perlmonkey:

i was gonna move my savings out of HBOS last week this week im considering buying shares in it, interesting times we live in

[21:01:52]

xris:

and I'm sure I"m on the lower end of the price point compared to a lot of people here.

[21:02:05]

perlmonkey:

$50?! what do you get for that

[21:02:21]

perlmonkey:

i want free tv.

[21:02:27]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: $50 is fairly average here

[21:02:34]

perlmonkey:

seems a lot

[21:02:37]

iamlindoro_:

I pay closer to $90

[21:02:58]

perlmonkey:

just for tv yeah? no on demand stuff or premium channel subscriptions?

[21:03:30]

iamlindoro_:

$90 gets me about 350 channels and three premiums, each of which is four or five channels including an HD movie channel.

[21:03:52]

perlmonkey:

350 channels???! that would take all day just to browse the channels?

[21:04:07]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, I pay around $35 a month for tv, I get around 20 channels

[21:04:12]

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[21:04:26]

perlmonkey:

how the heck can you have 350 channels, you would watch maybe <10% of those?

[21:04:30]

iamlindoro_:

I don't watch them all, but it's tiered pricing. If you want certain channels you need to buy into certain (higher) tiers.

[21:04:48]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: Because we have deregulated cable.... They can do anything the fuck they want to us

[21:04:58]

perlmonkey:

that sucks

[21:05:08]

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[21:05:09]

iamlindoro_:

If I want to buy my 20 favorite channels, they will happily do that... but I'll pay the same amount in the end

[21:05:14]

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[21:05:19]

iamlindoro_:

so, you should be damn GLAD you have governent regulated TV

[21:05:28]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:05:43]

wireddd:

ok, so is there a good rf based remote control that works well with linux/mythtv?

[21:05:57]

iamlindoro_:

wireddd: several of them... ATI Remote wonder, Snapstream firefly

[21:06:03]

perlmonkey:

i got a remote with my card and it looks pretty good

[21:06:14]

perlmonkey:

never used it tho

[21:06:25]

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[21:07:04]

wireddd:

firefly looks pretty cheap too

[21:07:17]

iamlindoro_:

cheap inexpensive, but not cheap quality

[21:07:20]

iamlindoro_:

It's a nice remote.

[21:07:24]

perlmonkey:

i use an analog cable box for my tv source so remote is useless, i just use the scheduling auto channel changeover reminder thingy

[21:07:42]

** kormoc blinks **

[21:07:48]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: that's not what the remote is for

[21:07:49]

kormoc:

I use my remote to control my frontend

[21:07:55]

iamlindoro_:

^^^ Exactly

[21:07:56]

** perlmonkey rubs head **

[21:08:06]

perlmonkey:

oh

[21:08:20]

perlmonkey:

i only use the frontend on my puters mostly, so im always by the keyboard

[21:08:24]

wireddd:

so anyone used both?

[21:08:27]

perlmonkey:

i guess you guys run it thru tv's and stuff

[21:08:49]

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[21:08:54]

wireddd:

it is kind of a pain to have a full size keyboard laying on the bed so I can watch tv :)

[21:08:56]

iamlindoro_:

wireddd: I have used both. They are both the same type of setup, same LIRC module. I am just more partial to the Firefly design

[21:08:56]

btQuark:

hello everyone

[21:09:13]

perlmonkey:

my reason for wanting mythtv was primarily so i can watch tv/cable in bed over wifi

[21:10:07]

perlmonkey:

wireddd i have one of those mini keyboards, you know about the size of the laptop keyboard for my desktop mythtv server

[21:10:14]

perlmonkey:

else i just use my laptop as a frontend

[21:10:27]

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[21:10:33]

wireddd:

well mine is hooked up to a sd tv

[21:10:59]

wireddd:

having to use a keyboard is just overkill

[21:11:01]

perlmonkey:

i got 2 backends, one is below the TV set and has tv-out card which is hooked up to TV via scart

[21:11:05]

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[21:11:14]

perlmonkey:

but its rare i ever use that and watch myth thru tv

[21:12:02]

perlmonkey:

i can see the advantage of using a remote tho for myth thru tv, its a hell of a pain to keep getting up or having a keyboard by your TV

[21:12:09]

wireddd:

I have mythtv on it, but I don't use it to watch live tv that much, mostly recordings/movies

[21:12:27]

perlmonkey:

how much storage space do you got?

[21:12:34]

wireddd:

1tb

[21:12:39]

perlmonkey:

phew thats a lot

[21:12:53]

perlmonkey:

i have only 80GB in my mythtv

[21:12:55]

iamlindoro_:

Heh

[21:13:04]

iamlindoro_:

Guess I shouldn't mention my 13 TB array then

[21:13:08]

perlmonkey:

:-O

[21:13:12]

wireddd:

you can get a 500gb drive for less than $100

[21:13:19]

perlmonkey:

i have more storage in my hdd recorder than mythtv

[21:13:46]

perlmonkey:

i dont record stuff much, just watch live tv

[21:14:39]

perlmonkey:

adverts suck so mythtv handles that nicely

[21:15:50]

perlmonkey:

wireddd: i will build a new mythtv server then with 1TB and DVB now

[21:15:56]

perlmonkey:

its time to upgrade

[21:17:17]

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[21:17:28]

wireddd:

I am getting ready to buy a nice htpc case and I figured I should go ahead and shell out for a good rf remote while I am at it

[21:17:52]

perlmonkey:

remotes can be expensive

[21:18:19]

perlmonkey:

but some of the cheaper DVB cards have pretty good remotes with them

[21:18:34]

AndyCap:

wireddd: just any rf remote, then it seems there has been a sale on the gyration media center remote.

[21:18:35]

perlmonkey:

and also the receiver thingy for set top boxes

[21:18:45]

AndyCap:

wireddd: could be all gone by now though. I dunno

[21:19:23]

wireddd:

I just want a regular one that is cheap

[21:19:34]

perlmonkey:

if you watch tv online you dont need a tv license

[21:19:45]

iamlindoro_:

That's not what I've heard

[21:19:53]

perlmonkey:

its true i checked it out

[21:19:59]

iamlindoro_:

at least, if you're watching the stuff covered by the license (BBC, etc.)

[21:20:06]

iamlindoro_:

link?

[21:20:20]

wireddd:

but I am amazed that someone isn't making a really cheap htpc case

[21:20:26]

AndyCap:

wireddd: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail. . . . om_keycode=4

[21:20:47]

perlmonkey:

any content that is not broadcast live, i.e. on demand and other services offered by BBC, ITV and CH4 etc, can be watched freely without a tv license on a computer

[21:20:55]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: link??

[21:20:59]

wireddd:

AndyCap: wow, that is cheap

[21:21:01]

perlmonkey:

one sec

[21:21:06]

wagnerrp:

wireddd: thats because people dont want 'cheap' HTPC cases

[21:21:20]

wireddd:

but I do!

[21:21:25]

iamlindoro_:

and I'm looking for something with a gov address to accept it, btw

[21:21:31]

wagnerrp:

something can be said for a case thats somewhat expensive

[21:21:40]

wagnerrp:

you absolutely do get what you pay for

[21:21:41]

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[21:22:08]

wireddd:

yeah, but honestly I am thinking about just gutting an old dvd player or something

[21:22:22]

AndyCap:

wireddd: that's got fail written all over it. :P

[21:22:31]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: Third post here: http://savaged.wordpress.com/2006/06/12/uk-tv . . . -broadcasts/

[21:22:39]

wagnerrp:

if you want cheap, just get a cheap ass inwin case and a mini-atx board

[21:22:56]

AndyCap:

or an rf remote, and stuff it in a cupboard or something. :P

[21:22:57]

iamlindoro_:

" If your computer is capable of receiving live broadcasts, whether on-line, or through an aerial or satellite dish, then it is classed as television receiving equipment."

[21:23:15]

iamlindoro_:

and that is straight from "TV Licensing"

[21:23:32]

wireddd:

problem is I already have a full size atx board and everything, it is just in a beige pc case right now though

[21:24:12]

perlmonkey:

iamlindoro_ http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/tvli . . . 4Q6MEFH8HIUS

[21:24:15]

AndyCap:

wireddd: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index. . . . ucts_id=3387

[21:24:37]

perlmonkey:

as long as the program is not being shown in real time, ie at the same time its broadcast on a tv set, you dont need a license to watch it

[21:25:05]

wagnerrp:

wireddd: check out some of the more inexpensive silverstone cases

[21:25:16]

perlmonkey:

so in theory, you can watch all your tv shows over the internet on demand without ever having a tv license

[21:26:00]

justinh:

in theory, yeah but some people happen to think the BBC is amazing value for money & really don't begrudge paying

[21:26:01]

perlmonkey:

no doubt as bandwidth increases and the amount of tv program content increases online the gov will close this loop-hole or find a way to tax it

[21:26:10]

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[21:26:18]

wagnerrp:

but nearly any 'htpc' case you buy is going to be mini/micro

[21:26:25]

justinh:

if the BBC funding is ever cut off you can bet your house on them not abolishing the TV licence

[21:26:25]

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[21:26:38]

perlmonkey:

agreed

[21:26:40]

wagnerrp:

you standard atx board just wont fit

[21:26:42]

AndyCap:

wireddd: I did see some cheapish korean stuff from 3r

[21:27:01]

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[21:27:17]

perlmonkey:

the BBC should be able to fund itself now anyway

[21:27:23]

wireddd:

I really want to make one out of a dvd player :)

[21:27:36]

btQuark:

how do you retrieve your epg-data with your dvb-card?

[21:27:37]

wireddd:

or maybe out of this old replaytv that I never use

[21:27:39]

wagnerrp:

wireddd: how do you plan to cool it?

[21:27:42]

perlmonkey:

its got its fingers in enough commercial pies isnt it and the gov has allowed it do even more now its got digital

[21:27:45]

wireddd:

fans

[21:27:48]

justinh:

perlmonkey: oh, you like adverts & want them playing to the lowest common denominator?

[21:27:58]

btQuark:

do you completeley ignore xmltv or do you use to adidtionally fetch it or as the only tool?

[21:28:20]

perlmonkey:

well i personally dont watch the BBC channels so i couldnt care less what they put on them, but i object to paying a license fee for channels i dont use

[21:28:25]

justinh:

I'd pay double what the TV licence costs now.

[21:28:30]

wireddd:

wagnerrp: I will have to find a slimmer heatsink for the processor though

[21:28:45]

perlmonkey:

its not the amount tho its the principle

[21:28:49]

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[21:28:52]

wagnerrp:

youll have to find a 1U server heatsink (not cheap)

[21:28:56]

iamlindoro_:

I love it when people get "principled" over TV

[21:28:56]

justinh:

as for online content. jees... with so many ISPs not allowing uncapped access...

[21:29:01]

perlmonkey:

and if you look closely at whats on BBC its arguably not good value for money

[21:29:02]

wagnerrp:

youll have to cut holes in the case for ventilation

[21:29:07]

iamlindoro_:

here's a clue, there are real things to be principled over

[21:29:15]

iamlindoro_:

take a walk outside and you'll find them

[21:29:32]

wagnerrp:

you might want to get a DC power supply and a brick, just to keep that extra heat out

[21:29:39]

perlmonkey:

this is an important issue tho, its easy to dismiss it as just tv

[21:29:44]

justinh:

and as for non-BBC shows... there's sod all on any other channel unless you want 'reality TV' or those inane loads of bollocks they call 'Lost' etc

[21:29:52]

perlmonkey:

but we're talking about a tax here

[21:29:55]

iamlindoro_:

perlmonkey: It IS just TV

[21:30:07]

perlmonkey:

tv is not the issue, its the gov

[21:30:18]

dustybin:

drop-price TV FTW

[21:30:24]

justinh:

look at Sky One to see how bad TV can be

[21:30:27]

justinh:

then UKTV Living

[21:30:28]

perlmonkey:

and their willingness to tax people in an unaccountable way

[21:30:30]

justinh:

then ITV

[21:30:34]

iamlindoro_:

If that's the biggest injustice you can find to get up in arms about in your government, I'm moving immediately

[21:30:36]

justinh:

then Channel Five

[21:30:42]

AndyCap:

Yes, please give us "Big Brother Stanford"

[21:30:45]

dustybin:

Television X :-)

[21:30:49]

perlmonkey:

well

[21:30:59]

perlmonkey:

if you wanna get me started on other stuff, there's plenty :P

[21:31:06]

iamlindoro_:

Good. Go take care of that.

[21:31:11]

perlmonkey:

we're on the verge of 1984 here

[21:31:17]

justinh:

it's okay iamlindoro_ – the govt make us pay to watch TV, but it's ok for our police force to shoot an innocent guy 7 times in the head on public transport

[21:31:21]

perlmonkey:

dont even get me started on CCTV and civil liberties

[21:31:29]

perlmonkey:

and national DNA database

[21:31:29]

wagnerrp:

what? no, those cameras are for your protection

[21:31:32]

dustybin:

justinh: he shouldnt of been in this country anyway

[21:31:48]

AndyCap:

wireddd: 3rsys.com but no idea if you can find them for cheap. or just average

[21:31:52]

wagnerrp:

crimes have gone down 0.68% since putting all those cameras up

[21:31:59]

perlmonkey:

the Americans fear their government

[21:32:07]

justinh:

personally I'd vote for a cull of everybody who uses 'what' instead of 'that' and 'of' instead of 'have' :D

[21:32:12]

perlmonkey:

but they have little to fear compared to UK gov, they should try it over here

[21:32:39]

wireddd:

it looks like I will have to pay around $70 for a decent atx htpc case

[21:33:12]

perlmonkey:

wireddd: i got a pretty decent one for like $27

[21:33:13]

wagnerrp:

wireddd: you should really pay around $70 for (normal) PC case anyway

[21:33:13]

dustybin:

there are 2 types of cases, backend/frontend combo cases, and small frontend cases

[21:33:30]

justinh:

dustybin: three types. you forgot the junkshop kind you buy

[21:33:36]

dustybin:

:P

[21:33:49]

dustybin:

justinh: that box will be ready tomorrow

[21:33:54]

perlmonkey:

http://www.digitalpowerhouse.net

[21:34:00]

iamlindoro_:

It's not a dustybin frontend if it's not fewer pounds than an olympic gymnast

[21:34:31]

dustybin:

small, cheap, silent, and good looking, what else could one want?

[21:34:47]

RyeBrye:

depeding on the features you want in a case, that might cut it

[21:34:47]

directhex:

your definition of "good looking" is on crack though

[21:34:48]

iamlindoro_:

For the last adjective to actually be true?

[21:34:50]

perlmonkey:

its not quite in the same league as silverstone, but its got some nice features and looks pretty cool

[21:35:27]

iamlindoro_:

contrary to dustybin beliefs, a frontend isn't supposed to look like Satan's asshole

[21:35:32]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:35:34]

perlmonkey:

lmao

[21:35:36]

directhex:

basically, plastic fascias are the devil's nadgers

[21:35:55]

directhex:

that's step 1: don't be plastic

[21:36:02]

perlmonkey:

well you gets what you pay for i guess, i wouldnt spend a fortune on a case by thats just me

[21:36:16]

perlmonkey:

as long as it looks reasonable, its only gonna collect dust under the tv anyways

[21:36:36]

RyeBrye:

I paid a good chunk of change for the case I'm building my HTPC this week in

[21:36:37]

directhex:

step 2: don't have visible front-mounted ports, ESPECIALLY with pc97 color codes

[21:36:42]

justinh:

dust? gawd we never see any dust on our TV stand

[21:36:57]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:37:06]

iamlindoro_:

Someone who cares enough to buy an expensive frontend probably does the dusting now and again

[21:37:11]

wagnerrp:

directhex: my DVD player has front mounted ports with pc97 color codes

[21:37:12]

directhex:

step 3: don't look like a pc

[21:37:15]

RyeBrye:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163076

[21:37:15]

perlmonkey:

i dust once a year or when it gets to be a problem so i can see stuff

[21:37:22]

iamlindoro_:

instead of waiting for our sisters to do it, eh dustybin?

[21:37:23]

perlmonkey:

*cant

[21:37:26]

justinh:

wagnerrp: that doesn't make it ok

[21:37:27]

directhex:

wagnerrp, srsly? a dvd player with a green speaker connector on the front?

[21:37:42]

wagnerrp:

it has a little flip down panel, with the purple keyboard jack

[21:37:56]

perlmonkey:

dust sucks because it always comes back the next day

[21:37:57]

wagnerrp:

for typing in titles for movies that dont have them listed automatically

[21:38:00]

justinh:

any and all front mounted ports shall be hidden by a tidy little flap

[21:38:02]

directhex:

purple... PS2? on a dvd player?

[21:38:03]

perlmonkey:

how much time you gonna waste removing it

[21:38:06]

perlmonkey:

life goes on

[21:38:14]

wagnerrp:

its a 300-disk changer

[21:38:18]

iamlindoro_:

Step 4: scrap all other plans, buy a case with lots of room, and get to running cables in the wall to nice face plates near the TV.

[21:38:37]

iamlindoro_:

place case in closet.

[21:38:53]

perlmonkey:

you guys are too fussy

[21:39:00]

RyeBrye:

a dvd player with a keyboard jack?

[21:39:18]

justinh:

perlmonkey: fussy wins WAF

[21:39:31]

perlmonkey:

fussy consumers

[21:39:43]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: as said, its a carousel changer, with an on-screen selector menu

[21:39:53]

perlmonkey:

high brow spenders

[21:39:56]

justinh:

it's a customer's perogative to be fussy

[21:39:57]

AndyCap:

take lian li motherboard tray, mount board and tuner cards, place on table, connect sata disks stacked vertically, connect powersupply, hot-wire power switch connector with metallic object.

[21:40:11]

justinh:

just putting up with any old shite... Sun readers & avid ITV watchers :)

[21:40:16]

perlmonkey:

wouldnt you prefer to put all your hard earned cash into quality ale

[21:40:23]

justinh:

pah

[21:40:25]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:40:44]

perlmonkey:

only in the sun

[21:41:00]

iamlindoro_:

If I wanted a podged together myth system I'd just buy it fro clever

[21:41:00]

justinh:

real ale drinkers... beardy flip-flop wearing open-source loving, single, five bellies...

[21:41:01]

RyeBrye:

Step 5: reclaim closet space by realizing "I don't need a case... this space between by drywall would work great! – mount components inside of wall and patch over holes

[21:41:16]

perlmonkey:

least rupert murdock wont be getting his grubby little hands on our ITV

[21:41:24]

clever:

iamlindoro: my systems are heavily tied to eachother, you would have to buy the entire network

[21:41:53]

** RyeBrye is super lagged **

[21:41:55]

wagnerrp:

probably about $200 is current ebay prices

[21:42:06]

perlmonkey:

whats the smallest mythtv backend you guys heard of here

[21:42:15]

justinh:

NSLU

[21:42:18]

movedx_ is now known as movedx

[21:42:36]

justinh:

and that, was only alleged

[21:42:37]

iamlindoro_:

Lord, now we're trying to create small *backends*?

[21:42:40]

iamlindoro_:

fuck this

[21:42:59]

iamlindoro_:

Some people won't be happy until the whole myth setup can be taken as a rectal suppository

[21:42:59]

perlmonkey:

i wanted to build mythtv server in a dell optiplex SX270 then i remembered it has no PCI slots

[21:43:03]

clever:

all my backends are standard desktops

[21:43:10]

clever:

or laptops

[21:43:15]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: so get USB/network tuners

[21:43:23]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[21:43:40]

iamlindoro_:

Stack up some of the new HDHomeRun DVB-T units on a switch, done!

[21:43:42]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: there are other kinds of suppository?

[21:43:53]

perlmonkey:

im using a GX240 optiplex right now

[21:43:59]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: Just keeping things clear for the slow children

[21:44:35]

RyeBrye:

In a recent thought experiment, I made one the size of my pencil eraser

[21:44:35]

RyeBrye:

If you wanted to go with a really small case, you could probably use a mini-ITX if size was all you cared about and just use NAS and network-attached tuners like the HDHR

[21:44:35]

RyeBrye:

I know people often build small frontends, but I don't think most people set out to minimize the size of the backend

[21:45:06]

wagnerrp:

does mythtv support the netceiver?

[21:45:16]

RyeBrye:

who the hell is the netceiver?

[21:45:19]

clever:

RyeBrye: enless they are going for a all in 1 box

[21:46:00]

clever:

with a usb tuner and laptop you could get a thin system that would be smaller then the average STB

[21:46:06]

clever:

dvi out and your done

[21:46:08]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: the netceiver is a network attached, modular tuner

[21:46:11]

wireddd:

I am going for an all in one box, unless someone has a $50 frontend I can just buy :)

[21:46:14]

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[21:46:21]

iamlindoro_:

Except a laptop sitting near your TV looks like asshole

[21:46:40]

wagnerrp:

its a board with four slots, one for network, three for mix-and-match dual tuner modules

[21:46:43]

clever:

iamlindoro_: nothing says you cant hide it behind the tv stand

[21:46:55]

iamlindoro_:

wireddd: I'm sure dustybin would be more than happy to tell you about his POS HP and how neato SD video is

[21:47:15]

wireddd:

I don't record hd anyway

[21:47:15]

hednod:

how do I tell if xvmc is actually being used on my system?

[21:47:29]

directhex:

hednod, does your experience suck?

[21:47:34]

hednod:

haha

[21:47:36]

RyeBrye:

hednod – it's probably not

[21:47:41]

iamlindoro_:

Frontend logging says which video output is being used in plain english

[21:47:47]

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[21:48:02]

directhex:

iamlindoro_, i like my test better

[21:48:08]

iamlindoro_:

directhex: And so true

[21:48:39]

hednod:

I may have gotten it turned on because my HDTV frames are not lagging anymore

[21:48:41]

** RyeBrye wonders how hard it would be to hack the source to enable insane timestretch values... like... timestretch of 10 :) **

[21:48:43]

hednod:

and my cpu usage seems to be down

[21:49:08]

RyeBrye:

Does the OSD still turn grayscale when xvmc is used?

[21:49:20]

iamlindoro_:

yep

[21:49:28]

hednod:

hey what do you know

[21:49:31]

hednod:

my OSD is grey =p

[21:49:36]

RyeBrye:

that could also be the theme :)

[21:49:41]

hednod:

it wasn't before

[21:49:43]

hednod:

;)

[21:49:45]

RyeBrye:

ok, there you have it

[21:49:55]

iamlindoro_:

The first of many disappointments with XvMc

[21:49:58]

hednod:

still a little big of lag with my HDTV frames.. hmmm

[21:50:02]

hednod:

bit

[21:50:03]

perlmonkey:

americans will evolve to have very long thumbs

[21:50:12]

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[21:50:15]

RyeBrye:

How will long thumbs cause them to breed better?

[21:50:25]

hednod:

strangely it only happens with TV input, HDTV off DVDs or such plays fine.

[21:50:29]

iamlindoro_:

Because we will also shoot semen from our fingernails

[21:50:37]

RyeBrye:

lol

[21:50:42]

perlmonkey:

it will help them surf all those 100s of channels

[21:50:48]

RyeBrye:

remind me to never shake iamlindoro_'s hand

[21:51:01]

hednod:

or to touch his TV remote

[21:51:15]

iamlindoro_:

I see someone's been browsing the "Other" folder in my MythVideo

[21:51:28]

perlmonkey:

why cant we have voice recog for tv channel changing

[21:51:33]

perlmonkey:

thats not to difficult

[21:51:42]

iamlindoro_:

we await your patches, then

[21:51:47]

iamlindoro_:

Mr not-too-difficult

[21:51:50]

perlmonkey:

:P

[21:51:53]

iamlindoro_:

exactly

[21:52:05]

RyeBrye:

Yeah, why can't we have somethign that regularly spits out audio of humans talking also listen for audio of humans talking to make it perform actions?

[21:52:23]

wagnerrp:

im somewhat surprised theres no speech recognition 'receiver' for lirc

[21:53:04]

RyeBrye:

I can see it now – every once in a while on TV shows the characters will just blurt out stuff like "Stop Recording." or "Reboot System"

[21:53:11]

RyeBrye:

or "Disable Commflag"

[21:53:12]

perlmonkey:

it could have a wav file that plays that says mythtv really kicks the lamas ass at the very least

[21:53:25]

iamlindoro_:

This is NOT WinAMP

[21:53:26]

wagnerrp:

lay off the winamp

[21:53:28]

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[21:53:39]

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[21:53:40]

perlmonkey:

actually winamp STOLE that phrase from Wesley Willis

[21:54:01]

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[21:54:12]

hednod:

it could say "mythtv really kicks winamp's ass"

[21:54:19]

iamlindoro_:

actually, it was inspired by him he never said it.

[21:54:20]

perlmonkey:

mythtv doin it right just like the pork chop patrol

[21:54:23]

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[21:55:00]

RyeBrye:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16800995056 I'm so excited that this is what I get because I buy a CPU right before the i7's come out...

[21:55:01]

perlmonkey:

that's a whole lot of mexican goin on

[21:55:19]

RyeBrye:

I also think it's funny that they value that at $19.99

[21:55:31]

perlmonkey:

everything is $19.99

[21:55:37]

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[21:55:50]

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[21:56:02]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, except everything that isn't $19.99?

[21:56:11]

perlmonkey:

most things are

[21:56:34]

wagnerrp:

no, everything on TV is (multiple installments of) $19.99

[21:56:39]

perlmonkey:

yes

[21:56:50]

perlmonkey:

seems to be the magic number

[21:57:10]

hednod:

just 1,999 installments of $19.99

[21:57:17]

perlmonkey:

did anyone here ever eat or spend $19.99 at taco joes

[21:57:45]

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[21:58:25]

wagnerrp:

RyeBrye: you can always use xvoice to control mythtv

[21:58:43]

perlmonkey:

cool i want xvoice

[21:59:04]

wagnerrp:

only $40 for the necessary dependencies

[21:59:13]

perlmonkey:

ahh wheatabix advert on tv

[21:59:43]

perlmonkey:

im hungry now but already had readybrek earlier

[22:00:00]

perlmonkey:

might have to get up and do some pottage

[22:00:43]

dustybin:

05:04.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV44A [GeForce 6200] (rev a1)

[22:00:46]

dustybin:

:-)

[22:00:54]

dustybin:

all i need now is the lead

[22:01:02]

perlmonkey:

i got an nVidia FX5200

[22:01:10]

perlmonkey:

i dont rate it

[22:01:39]

** dustybin installs nvidia driver **

[22:01:55]

perlmonkey:

well it displays tv pix ok i guess

[22:02:27]

hednod:

is there a way to see the signal strength from the console? (my antenna is not is a good spot to check the TV at the same time that i'm adjusting)

[22:02:29]

perlmonkey:

but X and shell is not readable, not sure if that is down to card or just limitations of using CRT tv with puter

[22:02:57]

wagnerrp:

thats a function of you running the X-server at a much higher resolution than the TV is actually displaying

[22:03:05]

perlmonkey:

it sucks

[22:03:16]

perlmonkey:

all fuzzy

[22:03:18]

dustybin:

should i install the latest legacy drivers for a fx6200 ?

[22:03:25]

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[22:03:41]

wagnerrp:

dustybin, what is an fx6200?

[22:03:43]

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[22:03:48]

perlmonkey:

dustybin are you gonna use LCD or CRT

[22:03:49]

dustybin:

nvidia 6200

[22:03:53]

dustybin:

CRT

[22:03:58]

dustybin:

using VGA > SCART

[22:04:04]

perlmonkey:

6200 is the big daddy of the earlier 5200

[22:04:19]

wagnerrp:

6200 is by no means the big daddy of the 5200

[22:04:23]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: that card has no TV out?

[22:04:29]

dustybin:

no TV out

[22:04:32]

perlmonkey:

damn

[22:04:35]

dustybin:

VGA out only

[22:04:36]

perlmonkey:

5200 has TV out

[22:04:40]

wagnerrp:

the other 5000 series are the 'big daddy'

[22:04:43]

perlmonkey:

via s-video

[22:04:50]

wagnerrp:

6200 is a wholly different card

[22:04:51]

perlmonkey:

oh i see

[22:04:56]

perlmonkey:

i stand corrected

[22:05:10]

wagnerrp:

dustybin, im currently running 173 on my 6200

[22:05:11]

dustybin:

Linux IA32

[22:05:11]

dustybin:

Latest Version: 173.14.12

[22:05:11]

dustybin:

Latest Legacy GPU version (1.0–71xx series): 71.86.06

[22:05:12]

dustybin:

Latest Legacy GPU version (1.0–96xx series): 96.43.07

[22:05:17]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: how will you get the vga in sync for tv

[22:05:20]

dustybin:

6200 isnt even mentioned

[22:05:39]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: are you from UK?

[22:05:43]

perlmonkey:

ya

[22:06:10]

dustybin:

http://www.keene.co.uk/electronic/keene-elect . . . o/KST1E.html

[22:06:14]

perlmonkey:

I tried to do that and had no end of troubles and eventually gave up and replaced the mobo with a HDVI out port

[22:06:18]

dustybin:

works perfectly

[22:06:22]

dustybin:

with nvidia cards

[22:06:24]

** perlmonkey looks **

[22:06:51]

perlmonkey:

my god thats what i built and it cost me less than £5

[22:06:53]

dustybin:

bit pricey but still not as expensive as a full blown HD setup

[22:06:59]

wireddd:

going to go with an Athenatech A3701BB I think

[22:07:19]

perlmonkey:

i still have the circuit in a box similiar to that one pictured

[22:07:28]

dustybin:

im crap with stuff like that

[22:07:29]

perlmonkey:

it works fine but i could not sync it in X config

[22:07:31]

dustybin:

thats why i bought it

[22:07:34]

perlmonkey:

ok

[22:07:55]

dustybin:

beats the shit out of s-video anyday

[22:08:02]

perlmonkey:

yeah thats a good point

[22:08:05]

dustybin:

anyway back to drivers

[22:08:59]

perlmonkey:

I used the Linux driver for my 5200

[22:09:12]

perlmonkey:

worked without any problems out of the box

[22:09:52]

perlmonkey:

one thing tho, the picture was B&W initially but a simple mod to the scart lead fixed that

[22:11:05]

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[22:11:27]

perlmonkey:

need fuel, runnin low

[22:14:30]

perlmonkey:

i wanna start my own 'lectronix biznis

[22:15:09]

perlmonkey:

need some partners who can do wiring and stuff

[22:15:35]

dustybin:

complete

[22:15:52]

perlmonkey:

is it working

[22:16:02]

dustybin:

the driver installed ok

[22:16:10]

dustybin:

i cannot view anything until my cable comes

[22:16:13]

perlmonkey:

fire it up

[22:16:16]

dustybin:

it is

[22:16:22]

dustybin:

ive sshd in

[22:16:53]

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[22:17:02]

perlmonkey:

ive got my new server almost finished but i need a new PSU for it because the mobo refuses to run off what i got now

[22:17:17]

dustybin:

ok

[22:17:28]

perlmonkey:

i will also need a new TV cuz it has HDVI out and i got CRT box

[22:17:31]

perlmonkey:

which kinda sucks

[22:17:36]

dustybin:

im glad my frontend is a 2.8 pentium, because mame requires a fair wack of CPU on some games

[22:17:43]

wagnerrp:

HDVI?

[22:17:48]

dustybin:

nope SD

[22:17:54]

wagnerrp:

is that DVI or HDMI?

[22:18:03]

dustybin:

VGA

[22:18:05]

perlmonkey:

HDMI

[22:18:09]

dustybin:

oh u

[22:18:15]

perlmonkey:

ya

[22:18:16]

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[22:18:39]

perlmonkey:

i got 2 mobos, one is an Intel which has just VGA and thats why i pursued the VGA to Scart conversion for a while

[22:18:44]

purserj:

win 37

[22:18:47]

purserj:

sigh

[22:18:55]

perlmonkey:

then i got a 2nd mobo which is AMD2 and has HDMI

[22:19:00]

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[22:19:44]

dustybin:

ive ssh'd into my frontend and there isnt even a HD inside it

[22:19:47]

perlmonkey:

so now im running AMD2 4000

[22:19:48]

dustybin:

so where am i?

[22:19:56]

perlmonkey:

haha

[22:20:09]

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[22:20:09]

perlmonkey:

you've networked into something

[22:20:18]

dustybin:

aye, im inside a partition on my server

[22:20:24]

dustybin:

but my server doesnt know

[22:20:35]

perlmonkey:

how strange

[22:20:39]

dustybin:

indeed

[22:20:40]

wagnerrp:

what are you talking about?

[22:20:43]

dustybin:

PXE ftw

[22:20:52]

laga:

wagnerrp: just the usual dustybin/clever stuff

[22:21:03]

wagnerrp:

if youre working on the files on the server, youre not ssh'd into the frontend

[22:21:20]

wagnerrp:

if youre ssh'd into the frontend, and working with files, the server knows because youre sending NFS data

[22:21:25]

perlmonkey:

maybe his frontend and backend r one machine

[22:21:29]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: i sshd into it

[22:21:41]

perlmonkey:

combined

[22:21:59]

dustybin:

grr i wish i did a apt-get update first

[22:22:01]

dustybin:

kernel changes

[22:22:08]

dustybin:

then means i need to reinstall the nvidia driver

[22:22:10]

dustybin:

grrrrrrr

[22:22:20]

perlmonkey:

i get confused with my master backend and slave backend

[22:22:26]

wagnerrp:

the server knows if its serving something

[22:22:30]

laga:

buy intel/ati or quit your whining :)

[22:22:33]

iamlindoro:

Oh god, what will you do having lost all that valuable single-reboot time

[22:22:36]

wagnerrp:

if it didnt know to serve it, you wouldnt be getting any data

[22:22:38]

dustybin:

i dont use a _slave_ backend, i find that quite racist

[22:22:41]

perlmonkey:

it seems one has to be powered up before the other else it doesnt work, and i always forget which way round

[22:22:51]

iamlindoro:

slaves can be any race, it's not racist

[22:22:55]

perlmonkey:

haha

[22:22:56]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: do you have any ATA hard drives?

[22:23:04]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: yes in my server

[22:23:11]

Wicked:

hello all. i just setup svideo to my pvr-150...i also needed to buy a rca to 1/8th jack(like a headphones jack) and now i have video and audio...but it seems im getting noise on the audio..kinda of a buzzing when the volume is up..is there any way i can cut down the noise?

[22:23:13]

dustybin:

nothing on my frontend

[22:23:36]

wagnerrp:

they ur bein' racist, you shud just git out

[22:23:49]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, think of who you're speaking to... he's the UK's clever. Of COURSE his drives are ATA ;)

[22:23:53]

perlmonkey:

mythtv can use the Wake on LAN feature thingy which seems quite eco friendly in this environment of energy saving

[22:24:06]

perlmonkey:

better than leaving the damn set top box on all day long

[22:24:29]

dustybin:

time to reboot and see if the nvidia module still exists

[22:24:30]

wagnerrp:

you and your master and slave devices

[22:24:39]

perlmonkey:

Wicked evening sir

[22:24:41]

wagnerrp:

you should set fire to your computer

[22:24:44]

clever:

perlmonkey: ive wanted to use automatic shutdown on my slave backends but it seems to be a global option

[22:24:47]

dustybin:

mythtvfrontend:~# reboot

[22:24:47]

dustybin:

WARNING: could not determine runlevel – doing soft reboot (it's better to use shutdown instead of reboot from the command line)

[22:25:06]

dustybin:

whoops

[22:25:10]

Wicked:

perlmonkey, hello

[22:25:19]

perlmonkey:

wicked I also use pvr 150 and svideo and havent experienced any noise you describe, you're using the audio out on pvr150 right?

[22:25:28]

Wicked:

yea.

[22:25:41]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: dont turn the volume up

[22:25:53]

Wicked:

my pvr thoug...doesnt have sound rca inputs..i had to buy a rca to 1/8th jack....

[22:25:55]

dustybin:

i can actually hear data being sent through my ethernet cables

[22:25:59]

Wicked:

*though

[22:25:59]

dustybin:

how odd

[22:26:07]

perlmonkey:

strange what is causing the buzzing then, must be something to do with the shielding on soundcard speakers/cable maybe?

[22:26:10]

iamlindoro:

That's because you're on crack

[22:26:13]

perlmonkey:

phew

[22:26:19]

iamlindoro:

Maybe you need some Denon Cat6

[22:26:23]

dustybin:

iamlindoro: im serious, its probably the NICs

[22:26:28]

iamlindoro:

onlt $500 a yard

[22:26:38]

iamlindoro:

Who's got that link?

[22:26:43]

Wicked:

perlmonkey, hmm could be. i have alot of electronics by the audio cord...could these be causing the noise?

[22:26:45]

perlmonkey:

wicked:no rca? thats a low profile right?

[22:26:48]

fiyawerx:

dustybin, i've seen that same problem before

[22:26:57]

dustybin:

yay

[22:26:58]

dustybin:

mythtvfrontend:~# lsmod | grep nvidia

[22:26:58]

dustybin:

nvidia 7085156 34

[22:26:58]

dustybin:

i2c_core 19728 3 lm85,nvidia,i2c_i801

[22:26:58]

dustybin:

agpgart 28336 2 nvidia,intel_agp

[22:27:01]

Wicked:

perlmonkey, could be....i bought it off newegg about a year ago

[22:27:18]

perlmonkey:

wicked i think thats a possibility yes, if i unplug one of my soundcard speaker leads and hold it near the case it also picks up big buzzing

[22:27:21]

dustybin:

mythtvfrontend:~# uname -a

[22:27:22]

dustybin:

Linux mythtvfrontend 2.6.26-1–486 #1 Thu Aug 28 11:14:57 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux

[22:27:30]

wagnerrp:

normally buzzing noise in a computer is from cheap power supplies

[22:27:52]

iamlindoro:

ScummVM Games Collection, no Humongous – PC & FMTOWNS – English.part001.rar

[22:27:54]

perlmonkey:

wicked: the full size PVR 150 has the rca ports

[22:28:02]

wagnerrp:

switching power supplies run at high frequencies, and cheap ones dont provide very good isolation on the outputs

[22:28:04]

iamlindoro:

god damn it

[22:28:05]

iamlindoro:

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-L . . . p/B000I1X6PM

[22:28:07]

iamlindoro:

There

[22:28:09]

Wicked:

wagnerrp, well my sound has always been fine..its just now that i got this new cord im noticing the buzz..and its only on the tv input

[22:28:10]

iamlindoro:

that's your Cat6

[22:28:17]

iamlindoro:

get some of that, there's BETTER be no buzz ;)

[22:28:28]

iamlindoro:

it's even on sale! $300, down from $500!

[22:28:31]

perlmonkey:

haha

[22:28:31]

Wicked:

perlmonkey, ah. well i guess i have the low profile one then

[22:28:35]

wagnerrp:

alternatively, on my laptop, the optical and hard drive cause noise, but again, its just poor isolation because its a laptop

[22:28:48]

perlmonkey:

wicked: I have some of those low profile cards here too

[22:28:56]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: this is the box im using for frontend, its tiny: http://reviews.cnet.com/sc/30425511-2-300-front+angle-3.gif

[22:29:08]

Wicked:

hmm wierd.

[22:29:24]

Wicked:

the buzz is kinda coming in a and going..right now....im not hearing it..

[22:29:29]

Wicked:

but 2 mins ago i was.

[22:29:35]

perlmonkey:

dustybin:thats not a bad looking case, did it cost much

[22:29:43]

iamlindoro:

It's not the low profileness

[22:29:52]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: £50 squid on ebay

[22:29:53]

iamlindoro:

The MCE cards are RCA, the non-MCE ones are 1/8th inch audio

[22:29:59]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: the one im using is from here www.digitalpowerhouse.net

[22:30:02]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: thats cheaper than a case

[22:30:03]

iamlindoro:

both full and low profile, same.

[22:30:13]

Wicked:

now the buzzing is back

[22:31:27]

perlmonkey:

iamlindoro:sir, you're wrong

[22:31:28]

iamlindoro:

Wicked, RCA to 1/8th inch plugs are notoriously prone to a) poor shielding and b) grounding issues

[22:31:33]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, no, I'm not

[22:31:39]

dustybin:

once my frontend is complete, the last thing my setup needs is a firewall, and this is the beast i want: http://www.netgate.com/product_info.php?cPath . . . ducts_id=652

[22:31:54]

iamlindoro:

Hauppauge MCE cards have RCA inputs, non MCE ones (read: normale PVR-150) have 1/8th inch audio.

[22:32:13]

Wicked:

iamlindoro, hmm. ok. anything i can do to improve this?....short of buying a more expensive cable

[22:32:45]

iamlindoro:

Wicked, tough to know... I'd move it away from any other cables, particularly power, to try to avoid interference... outside of that, get a decent, well shielded cable.

[22:32:54]

iamlindoro:

and yes, ground loops can sometimes be an issue too

[22:33:01]

perlmonkey:

iamlindoro the Hauppauge MCE PVR150 has no left and right RCA ports, it has one 3.5mm audio in jackplug

[22:33:17]

perlmonkey:

in low profile format that is

[22:33:19]

Wicked:

iamlindoro, hmm ok. i bought a 8$ one from radio shack...i bet that is part of the problem

[22:33:35]

wagnerrp:

its not worth the extra $50 just to have freebsd preloaded on those things

[22:34:01]

wagnerrp:

not for me anyway (considering i would just duplicate my current firewall onto the CF card)

[22:34:33]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: what do you think of that case? this guys trashed it but i rather like it and it cost me only £20 on ebay

[22:35:02]

wagnerrp:

looks cheap

[22:35:07]

perlmonkey:

it is!

[22:35:18]

wagnerrp:

i mean not inexpensive, but cheap

[22:35:22]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: is that for frontend only?

[22:35:32]

iamlindoro:

as in, crap

[22:36:00]

perlmonkey:

but its got some nice features, theres full media card support, a nice LCD panel at front, USB and firewire on front and back, its low height so ideal for under TV, concealled DVD drive cover

[22:36:20]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: im using it for combo machine

[22:36:25]

iamlindoro:

It also looks like my grammy's VCR

[22:36:41]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: aye ok, its not too bad, if it costs just £20 a bargain

[22:36:43]

iamlindoro:

Or, actually, more like the "DVD VCR combo deck"

[22:36:57]

perlmonkey:

yeah bargain for the money really considering what you get

[22:37:16]

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[22:37:19]

perlmonkey:

no PSU mind, which is a pity as they are quite hard to get cheap in mATX format with 24 pin cable

[22:37:20]

** dustybin checks for heat **

[22:37:44]

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[22:38:06]

** fiyawerx went with http://www.provantage.com/antec-nsk2480~7ANTG04N.htm for the htpc i just built **

[22:38:18]

fiyawerx:

still working on getting myth fully set up but so far so good

[22:38:34]

perlmonkey:

thats nice, but no LCD?

[22:38:39]

fiyawerx:

nah, didn't need one

[22:38:45]

iamlindoro:

That antec isn't bad, a step above the plastic shit being bandied about in here today

[22:38:46]

perlmonkey:

i need LCD

[22:39:06]

perlmonkey:

a bit pricey too

[22:39:08]

fiyawerx:

it looks a lot better in person too

[22:39:14]

perlmonkey:

but not silly money

[22:39:38]

fiyawerx:

bought the gigabyte 780g MB with it too, running that case with its 2 fans, and a scythe mini ninja with no fan

[22:39:52]

fiyawerx:

it idles at like 4 degrees over ambient

[22:40:00]

perlmonkey:

what CPU do u run

[22:40:01]

** iamlindoro feels that the best frontend is the one you never ever see **

[22:40:16]

fiyawerx:

amd 4850e

[22:40:19]

iamlindoro:

Although I am a softie for nice multimedia wall plates

[22:40:25]

iamlindoro:

like in my setup ;)

[22:40:36]

iamlindoro:

and little six inch to 1 foot cables

[22:41:10]

perlmonkey:

only a pussy would fit wall plates, real men show off their cabling

[22:41:13]

fiyawerx:

the one thing i dont like about the board is that its got no svideo – so if you don't yet have an hdmi tv, kinda stuck. I'm running an older nvidia 6600gt for now for the svideo out until i upgrade my tv

[22:41:49]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, those kind of real men spend a lot of nights alone

[22:41:53]

fiyawerx:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboa . . . oductID=2859 is the board i went with, the newer one wwith the ddr3 sideport memory

[22:42:02]

perlmonkey:

fiyawerx didnt you consider making an VGA to Svideo interface cable

[22:42:10]

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[22:42:25]

fiyawerx:

yeah, wasn't sure how well they worked tho

[22:42:34]

fiyawerx:

still might pick one up, the nvidia card's fan is way too loud

[22:42:48]

iamlindoro:

fiyawerx, Stay with the nvidia's actual s-video

[22:42:55]

iamlindoro:

(if you're doing s-video, that is)

[22:42:57]

perlmonkey:

i have a nvideo FX5200 which is passively cooled and has svideo out

[22:43:04]

perlmonkey:

it cost me £20

[22:43:23]

perlmonkey:

unfortunately it cannot go in my new case

[22:43:24]

fiyawerx:

yeah, im using the discrete nvidia card for now, will be upgrading to a new hdtv shortly, so i'll go back to the onboard hdmi out then

[22:43:29]

perlmonkey:

since theres no slot available

[22:43:56]

perlmonkey:

svideo it says

[22:44:04]

perlmonkey:

but its actually composite

[22:45:04]

perlmonkey:

you can easily build your own vga to svideo/scart cable but getting the video out sync'd in X is another story

[22:45:16]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: its easy

[22:45:24]

dustybin:

just use a PAL modeline

[22:45:25]

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[22:45:27]

perlmonkey:

i havent had any luck doing that

[22:45:33]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[22:45:35]

fignuts:

hi

[22:45:36]

dustybin:

they are all listed here

[22:45:46]

clever:

what type of service do i need on the coax to be able to use a hdhomerun box?

[22:45:52]

dustybin:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Modeline_Database

[22:46:05]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: i use this: ModeLine "720x576i" 13.875 720 744 808 888 576 581 586 625 -hsync -vsync interlace

[22:46:09]

dustybin:

but others will work too

[22:46:15]

perlmonkey:

my tv isnt listed :(

[22:46:29]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: are you talking about a normal CRT TV

[22:46:33]

perlmonkey:

yes

[22:46:34]

dustybin:

using your scart lead?

[22:46:38]

perlmonkey:

ya

[22:46:56]

dustybin:

all you need is a PAL modeline, doesnt matter what TV, all CRT are either NTSC or PAL

[22:47:04]

perlmonkey:

maybe my circuit is crap then, i will re-test it and try that line you pasted thanx

[22:47:11]

dustybin:

aye thats probably it

[22:47:37]

perlmonkey:

that thing kicked my ass for a week solid, i damn nearly trashed it and the puter

[22:48:01]

dustybin:

i attempted to make my own lead and it ended up such a mess that i decided to buy one ready built

[22:48:13]

perlmonkey:

did you make a circuit

[22:48:29]

dustybin:

i attempted but found it too difficult to solder

[22:48:46]

dustybin:

the keene box is a nice clean circuit

[22:48:48]

dustybin:

works ace

[22:48:52]

perlmonkey:

i made the circuit and it seemed to work in so far as i was seeing the PCimage on tv screen but it was all messed up, like lines and dots

[22:49:00]

perlmonkey:

so i figured it was messed at the X config side

[22:49:14]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: remember to make sure your frontend desktop background is BLACK!!!!!! otherwise you can get colour bleed from the desktop colour, especially if its white

[22:49:31]

perlmonkey:

ah yes

[22:49:46]

fignuts:

does mythtv by default have dvd ripping capabilities if i have all the plugins installed?

[22:49:55]

fignuts:

mytharchive perhaps?

[22:50:09]

dustybin:

fignuts: indeed it has

[22:50:14]

perlmonkey:

i had no luck archiving dvd's with that, not sure about ripping

[22:50:20]

perlmonkey:

oh there you go then

[22:50:23]

fignuts:

ok what i wanna do is rip

[22:50:34]

dustybin:

you can rip a dvd but you need to load mtd yourself

[22:50:43]

fignuts:

mtd? ok

[22:50:44]

perlmonkey:

damn its getting cold

[22:50:46]

dustybin:

so get a shell up, execute mtd

[22:50:50]

dustybin:

then rip the dvd

[22:50:51]

perlmonkey:

winter is here almost

[22:50:57]

fignuts:

sudo apt-get mtd?

[22:51:04]

dustybin:

it should be already there

[22:51:16]

fignuts:

sudo apt-get install mtd?

[22:51:20]

dustybin:

nope

[22:51:21]

fignuts:

i'm new to linux, 24 hours now

[22:51:22]

perlmonkey:

you gotta run it

[22:51:24]

dustybin:

it comes with mythtv

[22:51:27]

perlmonkey:

should be installed he says

[22:51:54]

dustybin:

why the frontend doesnt execute mtd itself is beyond me

[22:52:04]

iamlindoro:

You don't need to run mtd in a shell, myth will happily start it for you

[22:52:08]

perlmonkey:

tis strange, it could be made to?

[22:52:15]

fignuts:

you mean optical discs--import dvd won't work?

[22:52:16]

kormoc:

patches are welcome

[22:52:17]

iamlindoro:

and in trunk, mtd starts without even that prompting

[22:52:17]

fignuts:

(it's not working)

[22:52:19]

perlmonkey:

just go into rc.boot

[22:52:37]

perlmonkey:

or whatever

[22:53:08]

iamlindoro:

again, mythfrontend prompts the user to press any number to start mtd if it's not running and it's needed. No need to run it externally.

[22:53:08]

perlmonkey:

you can make whatever start up whenever you like in Linux in whatever order you like

[22:53:33]

perlmonkey:

thats why Linux is the daddy

[22:53:34]

dustybin:

oh i didnt know that

[22:53:48]

perlmonkey:

i had some fun with that just recently

[22:53:50]

fignuts:

ok i saw that, hit a number... but then it wanted to grab individual scenes, i just wanna rip the dvd in it's entirety

[22:54:06]

iamlindoro:

fignuts, you are misunderstanding the interface.

[22:54:10]

fignuts:

i am

[22:54:24]

perlmonkey:

dustybin we are learning something each this evening isnt it

[22:54:34]

iamlindoro:

If you switch quality to ISO, it tell it to start ripping, it will pull the whole DVD

[22:54:42]

perlmonkey:

knowledge exchange

[22:54:42]

iamlindoro:

er and tell it

[22:54:47]

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[22:55:08]

fignuts:

ok ok... even if it says title 8 of 17 at the bottom?

[22:55:15]

iamlindoro:

Yes

[22:55:18]

iamlindoro:

and titles aren't scenes

[22:55:32]

fignuts:

ok thank you

[22:55:35]

perlmonkey:

im motivated now to do that circuit again and get a working vga to scart to box

[22:55:39]

iamlindoro:

one title corresponds to the entire movie itself. Myth picks the largest as the most likely in case you just want to transcode the movie.

[22:55:43]

fignuts:

seems to be working

[22:55:52]

iamlindoro:

other titles are extras, etc.

[22:56:02]

fignuts:

gotcha, so it's defaulting to the main movie

[22:56:06]

iamlindoro:

Yes.

[22:56:10]

fignuts:

sweet

[22:56:18]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: personally i found the best way to rip a DVD is with this software: http://handbrake.fr/ you can do a full x64 / aac rip with that

[22:56:19]

iamlindoro:

So if you set any quality other than ISO, it will only pull that title

[22:56:27]

iamlindoro:

if you set it to ISO, it will rip the whole disc.

[22:56:41]

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[22:56:56]

perlmonkey:

im surprised these guys tolerate discussion on rippin considering the legal hammerin i got earlier for discussing broadcasting, but i guess not all rippin is illegal

[22:57:02]

fignuts:

hey bombadil

[22:57:05]

fignuts:

where in wi?

[22:57:20]

fignuts:

perlmonkey it's my own dvd

[22:57:28]

dustybin:

ripping is ok if its your own dvd

[22:57:28]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, myth doesn't do any DVD decryption, so by default the implementation of DVD ripping in myth can *only* be done legally.

[22:57:32]

perlmonkey:

dustybin: thanks i will keep a note on that

[22:57:36]

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[22:58:16]

perlmonkey:

iamlindoro: so that means you cant rip commercial dvds in mythtv to make copies?

[22:58:29]

fignuts:

only if you own it

[22:58:36]

iamlindoro:

Not using any code distributed my myth, you can't

[22:58:46]

fignuts:

oh

[22:58:48]

perlmonkey:

ok

[22:58:50]

iamlindoro:

now, if your packager or some other entity takes the steps needed to make it do so, that's on them

[22:58:57]

iamlindoro:

And most do.

[22:59:02]

iamlindoro:

But myth code itself is clean.

[22:59:02]

perlmonkey:

ah

[22:59:08]

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[22:59:17]

fignuts:

which is why i couldn't play a dvd until i did a load of stuff

[22:59:42]

fignuts:

ubuntu itself is clean too

[22:59:43]

iamlindoro:

yup

[22:59:44]

perlmonkey:

did the myth guys get pressure from manufacturers or decide it was ethical thing to do

[23:00:02]

perlmonkey:

or was it cuz they did not have access to decoder stuff for licensing reasons

[23:00:03]

fignuts:

perlmonkey it seems the point is to deliver 100% free and legal software, with ubuntu and mythtv

[23:00:06]

iamlindoro:

No pressure, Myth maintains a clean strict interpretation of the law philosophy

[23:00:16]

perlmonkey:

ok

[23:00:20]

iamlindoro:

US law, that is

[23:00:39]

fignuts:

i'm assuming that's why it won't install nvidia drivers automatically... because they're not open source

[23:00:44]

dustybin:

perlmonkey: you'll find a lot of the illegal stuff happens with windows mce side...

[23:00:47]

perlmonkey:

is it legal to rip a dvd to make a backup copy of one you own?

[23:00:53]

perlmonkey:

for your own viewing or storage

[23:01:05]

iamlindoro:

Heck, you don't need windows for that, just join #xbmc

[23:01:15]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, depends where in the world you are

[23:01:17]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, it's legal to make a copy of media you own. It's illegal to decrypt it.

[23:01:21]

iamlindoro:

(in the US)

[23:01:32]

iamlindoro:

so that renders moot the whole "can I copy it" point

[23:01:37]

iamlindoro:

as you can. But you can't.

[23:01:42]

perlmonkey:

technically its illegal to copy anything, even one copy thats copyrighted eh

[23:01:48]

dustybin:

i dont think ive ever heard of a person getting done for making a copy of his or her own dvd

[23:01:54]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, in the US, for personal, private usage, it's covered under 'fair use', for now, but only non-drmed disks

[23:02:02]

iamlindoro:

no, a backup copy is protected by our fair use law. Circumventing DRM to do so *is* illegal.

[23:02:08]

fignuts:

so, is it illegal to set someone else up with the capability (help a friend), or just to DO it?

[23:02:19]

perlmonkey:

making a copy a dvd you own already and for your own personal use seems pretty harmless

[23:02:19]

iamlindoro:

both

[23:02:28]

perlmonkey:

if you share it thats when its a crime

[23:02:48]

fignuts:

so it's illegal to install decryption software even if you don't use it

[23:02:56]

kormoc:

fignuts, correct

[23:03:02]

iamlindoro:

US laws work under the notion that providing material aid in committing a crime is the same as committing the crime itself

[23:03:03]

dustybin:

as Richard Stallman says, the licensing is just as illegal and bad and copying and distributing it :P

[23:03:07]

fignuts:

i hate this country

[23:03:10]

perlmonkey:

illegal in UK or US?

[23:03:15]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, US

[23:03:19]

kormoc:

donno bout the uk

[23:03:31]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, Myth as a project follows US law... other territories may vary

[23:03:50]

iamlindoro:

We're not whigs/Tories/Labor/PMs/MPs after all

[23:03:50]

perlmonkey:

did you hear that ISPs in UK are now assisting publishers (music and film) to stop people downloading stuff? is it the same in US?

[23:03:54]

iamlindoro:

or whatever it is you've got

[23:04:02]

iamlindoro:

yes, it's the same.

[23:04:10]

dec_ is now known as dec

[23:04:10]

perlmonkey:

my ISP sent letters out to many customers saying we know what you're downloading, stop

[23:04:20]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, it's been that way for years in the us

[23:04:32]

perlmonkey:

here its a new thing and people are shocked and outraged

[23:04:34]

fignuts:

thanks metallica!!!

[23:04:36]

fignuts:

:P

[23:04:45]

fignuts:

sure perlmonkey

[23:04:48]

fignuts:

it's intrusion

[23:05:01]

jduggan:

where is here, perlmonkey ?

[23:05:07]

perlmonkey:

yes its a breach of privacy and data protection act

[23:05:13]

perlmonkey:

UK

[23:05:48]

fignuts:

so to make a dvd movie viewable, period, on a linux computer is illegal

[23:05:48]

kormoc:

aye

[23:06:00]

perlmonkey:

technically yes

[23:06:12]

perlmonkey:

but in reality who is gonna pursue that or waste dollars/time on it

[23:06:18]

kormoc:

fignuts, unless you use the one and only legal dvd player software that paid all the royalties and licenses

[23:06:26]

fignuts:

what about the guys selling pre-made mythtv boxes?

[23:06:39]

fignuts:

kormoc: which is that?

[23:06:40]

iamlindoro:

What about them?

[23:06:48]

perlmonkey:

those guys will get done if they put dvd's ripped on there

[23:06:55]

kormoc:

fignuts, google knows (which is where I'd look it up, cause I don't remember the name)

[23:07:12]

iamlindoro:

If they have half a brain they don't ship the boxes with all the illegal stuff

[23:07:12]

fignuts:

well if they're setting up the mythtv boxes with its full viewing/ripping capabilities, aren't they risking it?

[23:07:27]

fignuts:

not talking about actual movies

[23:07:28]

perlmonkey:

microsoft has put lots of money into this to catch people and prosecute them

[23:07:41]

perlmonkey:

they founded a foundation thingy

[23:07:42]

iamlindoro:

I doubt very much they do that. Far more likely they ship with paperwork on interesting things to read that people might try if they wanted to do such a crazy thing

[23:07:43]

GreyFoxx:

fi: They usually do not install the dvd decryption libraries

[23:07:54]

GreyFoxx:

so they are legit

[23:07:59]

fignuts:

gotcha

[23:07:59]

dustybin:

Freedom 0: The freedom to run the program for any purpose. Freedom 1: The freedom to study and modify the program. Freedom 2: The freedom to copy the program so you can help your neighbor. Freedom 3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits

[23:08:05]

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[23:08:06]

GreyFoxx:

but they leave it as a simple task for the user to install it

[23:08:11]

perlmonkey:

yeah what about our freedoms

[23:08:12]

iamlindoro:

jesus, how often do we have to see the Stallman shit pasted in here?

[23:08:27]

dustybin:

:P

[23:08:31]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, you agree to give them away when you buy the disk/software

[23:08:36]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, if you don't like it, don't buy

[23:08:38]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[23:08:50]

perlmonkey:

tell em to shove it up their arses

[23:08:57]

fignuts:

is it legal to record live tv on this, then?

[23:08:58]

perlmonkey:

and get some GNU

[23:08:59]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, it's like buying a house on a swamp and then bitching when you're not allowed to drain the swamp

[23:09:00]

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[23:09:10]

kormoc:

fignuts, fair use still exists in the us

[23:09:16]

perlmonkey:

fignuts i wondered that question too, it seems unclear

[23:09:22]

iamlindoro:

fignuts, so long as you're not circumventing copy protection, yes.

[23:09:25]

fignuts:

ok

[23:09:34]

perlmonkey:

technically it is, but ive seen some legal sources saying its ok

[23:09:43]

iamlindoro:

It's not different than a VCR in that respect, and that's well codified in case law.

[23:09:47]

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[23:09:53]

fignuts:

true

[23:09:53]

perlmonkey:

yeah its strange

[23:10:00]

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[23:10:06]

kormoc:

fair use in the united states allows the copying of broadcast media for limited personal use as long as it doesn't involve the removal of DRM or other protection schemes

[23:10:13]

perlmonkey:

if its illegal to copy or record broadcasted content why allow/make devices to do it

[23:10:22]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, who said it was illegal?

[23:10:37]

perlmonkey:

well it is if you follow the law to the letter

[23:10:39]

dustybin:

"The idea of copyright did not exist in ancient times, when authors frequently copied other authors at length in works of non-fiction. This practice was useful, and is the only way many authors' works have survived even in part." – Richard Stallman

[23:10:51]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, no it's not. As I said, Fair Use allows it

[23:10:55]

perlmonkey:

copyright says you cannot record or copy in anyway shape or form without permission

[23:11:05]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, As everyone and their dog in here keeps repeating, there's nothing illegal about it

[23:11:06]

Wicked:

hmm well..ive router my audio cable so it has the least contact...and is as far away from the other cords as possible..but i still have noise...is there anything else i can try?.....wrap tape around the cord to add insulation?

[23:11:11]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, no, it does not. At all.

[23:11:12]

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[23:11:13]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, not true, that's way too broad

[23:11:18]

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[23:11:26]

perlmonkey:

yeah but it gets a bit grey

[23:11:30]

fignuts:

what kind of wire are you trying to insulate?

[23:11:33]

iamlindoro:

no, it's quite clear.

[23:11:37]

Wicked:

isnt it only illegal to distribute it?

[23:11:46]

perlmonkey:

how you record, where you store, how many people watch it etc

[23:11:51]

iamlindoro:

There is tons of case law that quite explicitly states when someone may copy a copyrighted work.

[23:11:54]

perlmonkey:

this could be used in a court of law to show you broke the law

[23:11:57]

Wicked:

fignuts, a rca to 1/8th audio jack(like a headphone jack)

[23:11:58]

mchou:

perlmonkey: you realize getting legal advice in an irc channel is dubious at best, correct?

[23:12:15]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, no, it's fairly clear. fair use only covers you and your immedate family.

[23:12:19]

mchou:

perlmonkey: consult a lawyer if you are really concerned

[23:13:01]

fignuts:

no clue, those wires should be insulated enough i would think

[23:13:02]

perlmonkey:

so it would be quite easy then for someone to show their copied content to a bunch of friends

[23:13:05]

Wicked:

fignuts, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?p . . . tPage=search

[23:13:11]

perlmonkey:

or at school, and fall fowl of the law

[23:13:14]

mchou:

nobody dispensing legal advice to you right now is qualified to do so

[23:13:15]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, correct

[23:13:21]

perlmonkey:

which you just said was legal

[23:13:25]

Wicked:

fignuts, its kind of a cheap wire...im now thinking i should have gotten a better wire.....

[23:13:26]

perlmonkey:

as i said, its not all clear cut

[23:13:30]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, no, that's not what I said

[23:13:42]

fignuts:

what are you sending over it?

[23:13:50]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, just because it's easy to break doesn't mean it's not clear

[23:13:56]

fignuts:

just audio?

[23:14:00]

perlmonkey:

its not clear at all

[23:14:03]

Wicked:

fignuts, yea just audio to my tv card

[23:14:09]

mchou:

perlmonkey: seriously, please stop debating this here. The people giving you info are clueless

[23:14:24]

Wicked:

fignuts, i got svideo and that cable going from my cable box to my tv card(pvr-150)

[23:14:32]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, sure it is. If I show it to my brother who lives in the same house, it's legal, if I show it to my friend, it's not

[23:14:36]

perlmonkey:

but its generally accepted that whilst its not legal, many people do it and the copyright owners tolerate it or dont concern themselves cuz it would be stupid else

[23:14:40]

fignuts:

can you try the wire on something else?

[23:14:43]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not clear

[23:14:45]

fignuts:

to see if it's even the wire

[23:14:55]

fignuts:

also, any problems if you remove one of the two rca jacks?

[23:15:04]

perlmonkey:

ive just demonstrated its how its far from clear and quite a grey area

[23:15:12]

mchou:

perlmonkey: bingo!

[23:15:16]

Wicked:

fignuts, let me see..what other kind of devices could i plug it into?

[23:15:25]

fignuts:

ipod

[23:15:30]

fignuts:

cd player

[23:15:34]

perlmonkey:

mchou: whats my prize? :P

[23:15:40]

mchou:

perlmonkey: I repeat. CLUELESS

[23:15:40]

fignuts:

is the rca side going to an input or an output?

[23:15:44]

Wicked:

hmm..but audio is going INTO the jack....

[23:15:50]

Wicked:

the ipod will record?

[23:15:58]

fignuts:

no i doubt it

[23:16:04]

fignuts:

if it does, not on that wire

[23:16:27]

fignuts:

most 1/8" jacks with input and output use a fourth connection

[23:16:33]

Wicked:

maby i can plug that directly into my speakers

[23:16:35]

hashbang (hashbang!n=nosuch@213-152-35-50.dsl.eclipse.net.uk) has quit ("Client exiting")

[23:16:41]

fignuts:

no you can't

[23:16:43]

perlmonkey:

mchou: are you?

[23:16:49]

fignuts:

it's not amplified

[23:16:54]

perlmonkey:

mchou: do you want me to go over it again more slowly?

[23:17:04]

fignuts:

go from an ipod to any stereo input you have... computer, stereo, etc

[23:17:18]

mchou:

perlmonkey: go over what exactly?

[23:17:36]

perlmonkey:

copyright law and how it relates to broadcasts

[23:17:37]

fignuts:

that wire should be suitable

[23:18:03]

fignuts:

i always start conversations that go well beyond my attention span

[23:18:13]

mchou:

perlmonkey: you in UK. I'm in US. I'm clueless re UK law regarding "fair dealing"

[23:18:21]

perlmonkey:

fignuts you have the attention span of a knat :P

[23:18:28]

Wicked:

hmm

[23:18:30]

fignuts:

sounds about right

[23:18:31]

perlmonkey:

mchou: oh ok

[23:18:40]

mchou:

perlmonkey: if you ask me US stuff I can cite you applicable US case law

[23:18:45]

perlmonkey:

fair enuff

[23:18:50]

Wicked:

ok.

[23:18:54]

Wicked:

let me see...

[23:18:58]

perlmonkey:

i dont know US law

[23:19:19]

mchou:

perlmonkey: US law may or may not apply to you :)

[23:19:21]

perlmonkey:

the supreme court of justice

[23:19:27]

mchou:

perlmonkey: and IANAL :)

[23:19:28]

fignuts:

wicked, that wire will work both ways, so you can connect anything with 1/8" output to rca input, or vice versa

[23:19:32]

perlmonkey:

v the crown high court

[23:19:50]

mchou:

perlmonkey: no laws apply if you're in gitmo :)

[23:19:54]

fignuts:

another reason for noise: outputting device is too low in volume, input device is trying to make up for it (amplifying noise)

[23:20:16]

perlmonkey:

your laws have no juristiction here

[23:20:19]

mchou:

perlmonkey: you become King George's "property" :)

[23:20:21]

perlmonkey:

but ours do over you

[23:20:37]

perlmonkey:

haha

[23:20:48]

perlmonkey:

yes, all are property of the monarchy in UK

[23:21:07]

perlmonkey:

they say "subjects" not property tho

[23:21:14]

mchou:

no, wrong George. I'm talking about King George Bush

[23:21:23]

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[23:21:23]

perlmonkey:

King George II

[23:21:28]

perlmonkey:

of the Bush dynasty

[23:21:50]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, oh this is beyond useful. Might as well shut up bout it

[23:22:13]

Wicked:

hmm well i got my ipod plugged into my tv...but no sound

[23:22:23]

perlmonkey:

in the US you take the oath of allegiance

[23:22:33]

mchou:

perlmonkey: habeaus corpus may or may not apply depending on circumstances

[23:22:34]

perlmonkey:

isnt it?

[23:22:42]

kormoc:

perlmonkey, it's the pledge and it's not required

[23:22:46]

Wicked:

correction..i have sound.

[23:22:52]

perlmonkey:

we have the magna carta

[23:23:01]

perlmonkey:

you have the bill of rights or constitution

[23:23:03]

fignuts:

good sound?

[23:23:09]

fignuts:

i ripped the dvd but now i can't find it

[23:23:09]

wagnerrp:

the pledge of ellegiance is just something made up by a school teacher about 50 years ago

[23:23:38]

perlmonkey:

i thought the pledge was mandatory in US to gain US citizenshio

[23:23:49]

wagnerrp:

not that i know of

[23:23:57]

perlmonkey:

i see

[23:24:15]

perlmonkey:

in the UK its compulsary

[23:24:18]

wagnerrp:

id hope not anyway

[23:24:31]

mchou:

wagnerrp: it was WAY more than 50 years ago

[23:24:35]

perlmonkey:

an oath of allegiance to the queen and the country

[23:24:46]

perlmonkey:

this is a new thing just started in 2008

[23:25:05]

mchou:

wagnerrp: http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

[23:25:13]

wagnerrp:

110 years...

[23:25:21]

Wicked:

fignuts, yea it sounded fine

[23:25:22]

perlmonkey:

you also have to take an exam to prove your britishness and speak english

[23:25:25]

wagnerrp:

i had thought it was in the 40s or 50s

[23:25:40]

Wicked:

so its not this cable....

[23:25:47]

perlmonkey:

there are questions in the exam about beer

[23:26:11]

mchou:

in the 40's "under God" was added

[23:26:23]

mchou:

a real travesty

[23:26:29]

perlmonkey:

in god we trust

[23:26:34]

perlmonkey:

its on your money

[23:27:10]

wagnerrp:

yeah, i dont like that 'god' stuff

[23:27:13]

fignuts:

wicked: what was originally connected to what?

[23:27:18]

perlmonkey:

the real travesty is when your countries ruler declares themselves 2nd only to god and starts a new religion that outlaws all others

[23:27:19]

mchou:

actually "under God" was added in the 50's.

[23:27:24]

wagnerrp:

im catholic myself, but religion has no place in politics

[23:27:36]

perlmonkey:

see UK

[23:27:50]

perlmonkey:

no place

[23:27:52]

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[23:27:54]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the whole part of the king being the head of the national religion is messed up

[23:27:54]

perlmonkey:

except in UK

[23:28:01]

mchou:

perlmonkey: bah, you guys are catholic lite :)

[23:28:10]

academy:

My frontend is _so_ close to playing back DVB_S HDTV – it's watchable but very occasionally skips frames. The specs are 3.4GHz Pentium D, 2x512MB DDR2 667 Dual Channel, SATAII Hard Drive, 9800 Pro. Does anyone have any optimisation suggestions which might just tip the balance?

[23:28:13]

perlmonkey:

the catholics are coming back now

[23:28:18]

Wicked:

fignuts, ok so im playing around with it......ipod to tv sounds fine......cable box directly to speakers sounds fine.....its only when i plug it into my tv there is noise.

[23:28:20]

perlmonkey:

but for years they were persecuted

[23:28:34]

perlmonkey:

because of the monarch's fondness for underage girls

[23:28:44]

wagnerrp:

you guys are basically catholic with divorces

[23:28:47]

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[23:28:58]

mchou:

and beheadings :)

[23:29:04]

perlmonkey:

just thing the chaos and conflicts and suffering around the world its caused

[23:29:07]

fignuts:

plug what into your tv?

[23:29:10]

mchou:

no need for alimony :)

[23:29:14]

perlmonkey:

haha

[23:29:19]

perlmonkey:

indeed

[23:29:41]

perlmonkey:

catholics who dont take mass

[23:29:48]

perlmonkey:

who believe in abortion

[23:29:51]

Wicked:

fignuts, i had the jack plugged into my ipod..then i hooked the 2 rca connectors to the tv..which sounded fine.

[23:29:58]

RyeBrye:

academy – what socket is your mobo?

[23:30:10]

perlmonkey:

the church of england is a cult

[23:30:10]

RyeBrye:

academy – perhaps swapping out the cpu would help

[23:30:11]

fignuts:

should mythtv by default be looking in var\lib\mythtv\videos for videos?

[23:30:15]

perlmonkey:

and the head of the cult is the queen

[23:30:36]

fignuts:

oh i found it

[23:30:36]

academy:

RyeBrye: it's 775. I'd rather not upgrade it – it's so close I suspect software tweaks would get it working.

[23:30:40]

perlmonkey:

i cud be struck down and beheaded for saying that

[23:30:46]

fignuts:

mythtv didn't find the movie until i restarted it

[23:31:05]

RyeBrye:

academy – if it's so close... any chance you can overclock it?

[23:31:12]

perlmonkey:

treason is still an offence which carries the death penalty in UK

[23:31:26]

gbee:

academy: have you looked at the skiploop patch?

[23:31:44]

iamlindoro:

(if it's h.264, that is)

[23:31:49]

perlmonkey:

in the US you can get dead for any minor offence like murder

[23:32:04]

wagnerrp:

i think treason carries the death penalty just about anywhere

[23:32:06]

academy:

RyeBrye: perhaps

[23:32:08]

gbee:

iamlindoro: HD which struggles on a 3.4Ghz cpu, it has to be AVC

[23:32:17]

academy:

gbee: nom I'll just google it

[23:32:23]

perlmonkey:

but the UK banned executions 50 years ago

[23:32:32]

academy:

iamlindoro: it's h.264 I believe – BBC HD

[23:32:36]

iamlindoro:

gbee, You overestimate how some people set up their wacky systems ;)

[23:32:40]

iamlindoro:

academy, yeah, h.264

[23:32:48]

Wicked:

i think im gonna shut the computer down and take the tv card out and see if there is dust and stuff in the pci slow.....onlything i can think of

[23:32:48]

wagnerrp:

but in the case of treason, it now becomes a military affair

[23:32:50]

iamlindoro:

gbee is right, check out skiploopfilter

[23:32:56]

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[23:32:56]

wagnerrp:

the rules are different

[23:32:57]

perlmonkey:

you get shot

[23:33:15]

perlmonkey:

wagnerrp are you speaking on UK or US?

[23:33:26]

wagnerrp:

im talking just about any government

[23:33:27]

gbee:

is it half term this week?

[23:33:32]

perlmonkey:

the death penalty in UK has always been hanging

[23:33:39]

jduggan:

gbee: no

[23:33:39]

perlmonkey:

but treason is always by shooting

[23:33:45]

jduggan:

schools have only been back 2 weeks heh

[23:33:47]

iamlindoro:

gbee, hehe

[23:33:47]

jduggan:

or 3

[23:34:02]

iamlindoro:

I'm sure he's wondering, as I am, what is with the sudden influx of retarded

[23:34:04]

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[23:34:08]

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[23:34:13]

jduggan:

ohhhh

[23:34:15]

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[23:34:17]

jduggan:

nod

[23:34:34]

academy:

gbee/iamlindoro: thanks, I'm googling it now.

[23:34:36]

jduggan:

<--point proved eh? ;\

[23:34:51]

iamlindoro:

jduggan, naw, you're a'ight ;)

[23:35:01]

jduggan:

heh

[23:35:40]

perlmonkey:

is it true that in the US all baked beans in tomato sauce have pigs fat in them

[23:35:59]

fignuts:

probably

[23:36:02]

iamlindoro:

Not all of them

[23:36:07]

perlmonkey:

but most?

[23:36:08]

iamlindoro:

you can get veggie baked beans

[23:36:10]

dustybin:

when the new mythUI comes into action, does that mean it will need a new set of themes?

[23:36:11]

fignuts:

we're a bunch of fatties

[23:36:13]

fignuts:

except for me

[23:36:19]

perlmonkey:

why do they put pigs fat in by default

[23:36:32]

wagnerrp:

probably the flavor

[23:36:35]

perlmonkey:

surely they should be special beans for people who like pigs fat

[23:36:35]

fignuts:

how do i get mythtv's volume louder? system volume (top right of ubuntu desktop) is all the way up

[23:36:45]

mchou:

google phone to cost $179

[23:36:47]

RyeBrye:

]

[23:37:08]

fignuts:

and volume within mythtv is all the way up

[23:37:09]

mchou:

that's just ludicrous

[23:37:09]

perlmonkey:

fignuts: you may need to adjust soundcard settings

[23:37:14]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, It's called lard, and it's in far more food than you'd like to think

[23:37:18]

dustybin:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythUI

[23:37:23]

perlmonkey:

yuck

[23:37:24]

wagnerrp:

fignuts: you turn up the sound on your receiver/tv

[23:37:30]

fignuts:

preferences--sound preferences?

[23:37:31]

iamlindoro:

moreover, I think it's the pot calling the kettle black to get cuisine tips from anyone in the UK

[23:37:34]

fignuts:

wagnerrp that's not the answer

[23:37:38]

RyeBrye:

I was all set to buy the Tmobile-G1 until I saw two things that made me say: "WTF?" – the lack of a headphone jack, and the lack of an accelerometer

[23:37:46]

academy:

gbee: iamlindoro: Do you know if the internal player uses ffmpeg too? Would it be possible to pass that flag to it? (I prefer the internal player's OSD)

[23:37:52]

fignuts:

sound from within ubuntu is plenty loud, from within mythtv it's quiet

[23:37:52]

perlmonkey:

when i was younger we used to eat lard on slices of bread

[23:38:00]

RyeBrye:

Even my digital camera has an accelerometer in it...

[23:38:00]

wagnerrp:

fignuts: if the sound card volume is all the way up, that IS the answer

[23:38:03]

gbee:

internal player is ffmpeg, yes

[23:38:05]

iamlindoro:

academy, Internal is based on ffmpeg, yes

[23:38:08]

perlmonkey:

peasant food

[23:38:21]

iamlindoro:

and there is a patch for myth to enable the loopfilter skipping

[23:38:25]

iamlindoro:

see trac

[23:38:29]

mchou:

RyeBrye: why you _need_ accelerometer?

[23:38:44]

fignuts:

are these comments to me?

[23:38:44]

academy:

iamlindoro: ok, thanks

[23:38:47]

wagnerrp:

mchou: for stability correction

[23:38:48]

fignuts:

oh no they're not

[23:39:03]

perlmonkey:

i wouldnt mind having a crack at making some medieval ale using grains and yeast

[23:39:04]

gbee:

academy: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4653

[23:39:17]

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[23:39:20]

wagnerrp:

if you know where the camera is moving, you can adjust for vibration

[23:39:26]

RyeBrye:

mchou: I was going to get the phone primarily for hacking around on it... and so no accelerometer = 1 less toy to play with on it... And the fact that it can't auto-rotate it's screen without one

[23:39:28]

mchou:

"He said he'd written an application for Android already: When a user throws the phone into the air, the program records how long it takes until it lands, using the phone's built-in motion sensor. Brin acknowledged that the wisdom of including such a program with an expensive phone is dubious."

[23:39:36]

iamlindoro:

It's taking all my brainpower to find the Myth questions in here

[23:39:43]

fignuts:

lol

[23:39:45]

fignuts:

i'm asking!

[23:40:03]

perlmonkey:

iamlindoro you need to go dual core so you can continue talking

[23:40:07]

RyeBrye:

mchou – I saw that in the demo, but he wasn't testing with a G1 apparently because I read later that the G1 had no accelerometer

[23:40:17]

academy:

gbee: ty

[23:40:23]

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[23:40:24]

mchou:

RyeBrye: I think it's optional

[23:40:40]

mchou:

pay extra to get the fature apparently

[23:40:49]

mchou:

feature*

[23:40:51]

gbee:

iamlindoro: I think we're the victims of an organised campaign

[23:40:55]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: dual core has almost negligible effect on HDPVR decoding

[23:40:58]

perlmonkey:

those medieval folks drank ale instead of water, the average person drank 4 gallons a day

[23:41:08]

RyeBrye:

mchou: I don't think you can pay extra to get it on a G1 – the G1 doesn't have any options. I'll just have to wait for a proper android platform to come out later to play with

[23:41:13]

mythuseril:

hi all. i'm having an issue when i try to play a stream under mythweb. i click the asx file link, windows media player opens, but then the player just sticks at the "connecting" dialogue. any ideas?

[23:41:17]

perlmonkey:

its a wonder they managed to get any work done

[23:41:36]

mchou:

RyeBrye: yeah. for $180 I'd rather go for iphone :)

[23:41:40]

wagnerrp:

perlmonkey: if they drank the watter, the would be dead

[23:41:47]

perlmonkey:

that is true

[23:41:52]

iamlindoro:

mythuseril, asx files are just short text files. Open it and check that the port and IP address are correct

[23:42:01]

perlmonkey:

but why not just boil the water and drink that

[23:42:23]

wagnerrp:

because you have to boil it immediately before use

[23:42:27]

gbee:

ale wasn't as strong as it is now

[23:42:30]

RyeBrye:

mchou: although I'm seeing other articles that imply that the accelerometer does exist in the G1... I'm going to dig aroudn some more and find out if it does have one

[23:42:31]

wagnerrp:

they had no means of storage

[23:42:44]

perlmonkey:

their ale could not be stored either and had to be prepared constantly

[23:42:45]

wagnerrp:

and then youre drinking hot water

[23:42:48]

gbee:

damn, now I'm being drawn in

[23:42:53]

perlmonkey:

so theres not much benefit

[23:42:57]

wagnerrp:

their ale could be stored, thats what was so good about it

[23:43:02]

perlmonkey:

it could not

[23:43:07]

perlmonkey:

not longer than 3–4 days

[23:43:48]

iamlindoro:

gbee, resist

[23:43:49]

perlmonkey:

they did not use hops in their ale and so it lacked the longtivity of our modern beers and ales

[23:44:04]

wagnerrp:

i also cant imaging they drank 4 gallons a day, because people dont drink anywhere near that amount of fluid today

[23:44:11]

perlmonkey:

well

[23:44:24]

perlmonkey:

it seems a lot, but their ale was very weak and had little alcohol compared to ours today

[23:44:34]

academy:

Oh yeah – another question. If I click on a DVB-S channel in the program guide or change channel in live tv, it takes about 2–3 seconds to find the channel. It only takes about a second in Kaffeine. Is there a way to speed this up?

[23:44:36]

RyeBrye:

/ignore ;)

[23:44:51]

wagnerrp:

i mean if you drink 4 gallons of water in a day, you will piss yourself to death

[23:44:56]

perlmonkey:

ale was important not only for its alternative to water for hydration because also vital for nutrition

[23:45:03]

fignuts:

makes no sense that mythtv would be so much quieter than ubuntu itself

[23:45:04]

wagnerrp:

youll flush all the nutrients out of your blood stream

[23:45:05]

perlmonkey:

it provided a rich source of nutrients lacking in their diet

[23:45:18]

perlmonkey:

yes

[23:45:37]

iamlindoro:

academy, no

[23:45:49]

iamlindoro:

as kaffeine is not a DVR, and myth is

[23:46:09]

iamlindoro:

kaffeine can just dump everything to the screen. Myth needs to set up and file and begin recording on each./

[23:46:17]

iamlindoro:

And no, there's not way to change it. It's just how Myth works.

[23:46:23]

perlmonkey:

wagnerrp: maybe it was 2 gallons per person not 4

[23:46:34]

perlmonkey:

thats like 7 litres still

[23:47:17]

perlmonkey:

the gov recommends we drink 2 litres of water a day

[23:48:01]

RyeBrye:

Well... I suppose if you had a ton of money and you wanted to buy a lot of tuners and dedicate them all to live TV – you could set up a thing where you could have it start tuning to all of the channels you normally flip to – and then you could eliminate most of that delay – and havea nother mode where it always had the next and previous channel tuned up and waiting to go

[23:48:07]

academy:

iamlindoro: I don't believe in never ;). As it's a hard drive issue, I'll try and optimize it. If I had spare memory, could mythtv save the ringbuffer in a tmpfs and then copy it to the disk when the memory got full?

[23:48:09]

fignuts:

with help from the bottled water companies

[23:48:21]

iamlindoro:

academy, It's *not* a hard drive issue

[23:48:28]

perlmonkey:

bottled water is a big con

[23:48:31]

academy:

iamlindoro: do you mind explaining?

[23:48:37]

iamlindoro:

and no, you can't do what you describe. We don't use a ringbuffer.

[23:49:01]

fignuts:

are we talking about speeding up channel changing? because mine is slow

[23:49:03]

academy:

iamlindoro: ok, it's not important.

[23:49:11]

perlmonkey:

why is it slow

[23:49:14]

academy:

iamlindoro: thanks for your help

[23:49:19]

fignuts:

i wonder if it just takes a long time to communicate with the hdhomerun

[23:49:29]

wagnerrp:

its not a hard drive issue, there is no way to optimize it, mythtv is just programmed to always have a couple second lag in the signal

[23:49:37]

perlmonkey:

ive never changed channel in mythtv before

[23:49:41]

iamlindoro:

fignuts, Myth channel changes will always take several seconds on average

[23:49:46]

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[23:49:48]

perlmonkey:

that does seem slow

[23:49:54]

croppa (croppa!n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au) has joined #mythtv-users

[23:49:55]

perlmonkey:

several seconds

[23:50:03]

wagnerrp:

it will never change because the devs do not want it to

[23:50:03]

fignuts:

yeah

[23:50:08]

academy:

iamlindoro: is it a timeout to ensure that the file has been properly created in the fs?

[23:50:11]

dustybin:

mine can take 4–5 seconds with my Nova-T 500

[23:50:16]

iamlindoro:

jesus fuck, I would love to go one day without this conversation

[23:50:23]

perlmonkey:

but we have to remember its not gonna be anything like normal TV speed, its recording eh

[23:50:47]

dustybin:

my parents SKY+ box is a PVR and it changes the channels in 2 seconds..

[23:50:50]

fignuts:

the dvrs we install at work are slow, but not quite this slow

[23:50:53]

perlmonkey:

does pausing before changing channel make it any quicker?

[23:51:07]

perlmonkey:

2 secs not bad

[23:51:10]

RyeBrye:

The live TV mode of mythtv sucks, but then again – nobody (at least none of the devs) uses mythtv for liveTV – that's kind of missing the main point of it

[23:51:13]

wagnerrp:

basically, mythtv is designed to be network transparent

[23:51:33]

perlmonkey:

Rye?

[23:51:36]

RyeBrye:

If you want to see fast channel changing – check out TiVo – they are fast

[23:51:36]

wagnerrp:

the frontend and backend can be where ever the hell you want them

[23:51:39]

fignuts:

well it's handy to be able to pause, rye

[23:51:39]

iamlindoro:

academy, There are numberous factors. This has been rehashed HUNDREDS of times both in channel and in the users and dev lists.

[23:51:39]

iamlindoro:

er numerous

[23:51:39]

iamlindoro:

If you want to learn more, all of the above are searchable

[23:51:42]

iamlindoro:

and every time someone says "Well I'm going to investigate and make it fast," they disappear off the face of the planet. Because they realize that what everyone who knows anything was telling them was right and that they're idiots.

[23:51:42]

wagnerrp:

that means you need buffering

[23:51:44]

perlmonkey:

I thought that was the main point?

[23:51:59]

wagnerrp:

meaning you need some amount of lag for it to function properly

[23:52:00]

RyeBrye:

LiveTV? Hell no. that's not the main point.

[23:52:06]

RyeBrye:

The main point is timeshifting

[23:52:07]

perlmonkey:

what is it then?

[23:52:09]

wagnerrp:

its a basic function of how mythtv is designed

[23:52:10]

perlmonkey:

ok

[23:52:18]

perlmonkey:

but dont you need livetv for that?

[23:52:25]

iamlindoro:

no

[23:52:26]

wagnerrp:

you could drop the lag some, but it will always be there

[23:52:41]

dustybin:

does windows MCE take about the same amount of time to change a channel as mythtv?

[23:52:41]

iamlindoro:

I promise you that not a one of the myth devs uses liveTV outside of testing that it still works from time to time.

[23:52:42]

perlmonkey:

what do you timeshift if not live tv?

[23:52:49]

wagnerrp:

that value is set to that it should never be a problem

[23:52:51]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, recordings, numbnuts

[23:52:51]

RyeBrye:

It's a bit hard to jump over commercials if you are watching things on liveTV. We haven't yet invented tuner cards that can predict the future

[23:53:00]

academy:

iamlindoro: I wasn't implying you didn't know what you were talking about. I wouldn't ask your opinion if I thought that. I was merely curious. Thanks for answering.

[23:53:02]

perlmonkey:

thats not timeshifting then is it

[23:53:05]

RyeBrye:

You have to have an input, but you never have to watch live tv

[23:53:21]

dustybin:

why the heck do people use time shifting?!

[23:53:25]

iamlindoro:

academy, It's okay, not calling you an idiot, just trying to head it off at the pass

[23:53:28]

perlmonkey:

anyone can jump back and forth on a recorded file

[23:53:29]

iamlindoro:

It's well-trodden ground

[23:53:29]

wagnerrp:

whats the time to change a channel on a slingbox?

[23:53:40]

andreax1:

dustybin: I tried yesterday with a digivox dvb-t stick. both mce and mythtv tune in nearly same time...

[23:53:41]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, You obviously don't know what timeshifting is

[23:53:46]

perlmonkey:

timeshifting is doing it on a live broadcast

[23:53:48]

academy:

iamlindoro: not for me ;)

[23:53:49]

iamlindoro:

as pausing liveTV ain't it.

[23:53:49]

dustybin:

andreax1: aye there you go

[23:53:50]

wagnerrp:

because thats effectively what mythtv is doing

[23:54:01]

wagnerrp:

every time you play livetv, you are place-shifting

[23:54:02]

perlmonkey:

or am I im missing the point

[23:54:20]

iamlindoro:

timeshifting is the ability to watch Television on your own schedule, outside of the normal broadcast time.

[23:54:23]

RyeBrye:

!trout permonkey the point

[23:54:23]

** MythLogBot slaps permonkey with a the point trout on behalf of RyeBrye... **

[23:54:28]

perlmonkey:

i see

[23:54:29]

iamlindoro:

NOT pausing liveTV

[23:54:38]

perlmonkey:

well

[23:54:39]

dustybin:

actually i mean time stretching....

[23:54:47]

perlmonkey:

you are watching it after the event then

[23:54:51]

RyeBrye:

I LOVE timestretch

[23:54:55]

perlmonkey:

so i would not call that time shifting myself

[23:55:05]

dustybin:

justinh time stretches his wifes shows so he doesnt have to sit through them as long LOL

[23:55:07]

iamlindoro:

perlmonkey, well good thing you don't get to make up terms then

[23:55:11]

perlmonkey:

timeshifting is where it takes during the event, to my mind

[23:55:12]

RyeBrye:

Timestretch on myth is awesome – I watch almost all my college football games as 1.5 speed

[23:55:12]

iamlindoro:

because it's what the rest of the world calls it.

[23:55:16]

perlmonkey:

*place

[23:55:45]

perlmonkey:

after the event is just watching a recording, just any medium such as vcr or whatever

[23:55:50]

perlmonkey:

*like

[23:56:02]

perlmonkey:

whats so special about that

[23:56:03]

iamlindoro:

VCRs do timeshifting as well.

[23:56:15]

perlmonkey:

haha

[23:56:19]

perlmonkey:

thats not timeshifting

[23:56:21]

iamlindoro:

I'm sorry you don't like the term, but that's the way the world works.

[23:56:24]

perlmonkey:

thats just recording a program

[23:56:30]

wagnerrp:

that is time shifting

[23:56:36]

iamlindoro:

Like I said, you don't get to make up what existing terms mean.

[23:56:37]

wagnerrp:

you are recording it now to watch it later

[23:56:57]

perlmonkey:

timeshifting is where a program is actually broadcasting and you can watch it at the same time at a different time period in the broadcast

[23:57:03]

iamlindoro:

Perhaps I think "good" means killing puppies and burning things, but that doesn't make it "good," now do it?

[23:57:05]

perlmonkey:

just like a time machine :P

[23:57:26]

wagnerrp:

timeshifting merely means youre not watching it at the regularly scheduled time

[23:57:26]

perlmonkey:

when i did that with mythtv for the first time i was astonished

[23:57:31]

wagnerrp:

the show does not have to be still running

[23:57:53]

wagnerrp:

that would mean that once the show was over, you wathing the remainder of the recording is no longer time shifting

[23:58:01]

iamlindoro:

hey fuckstick

[23:58:01]

perlmonkey:

but for real time shifting in the true sense it should be

[23:58:02]

iamlindoro:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_shifting

[23:58:15]

iamlindoro:

read, comprehend, call me to sound out the big words

[23:58:19]

iamlindoro:

now stop arguing

[23:58:21]

perlmonkey:

iam: mind the language

[23:58:27]

iamlindoro:

I sure as fuck will not

[23:58:36]

perlmonkey:

well you can go on ignore then

[23:58:41]

iamlindoro:

I've been around far too long here to be told how to talk by some clueless newbie

[23:58:57]

perlmonkey:

and i dont take kindly to such filthy language

[23:59:03]

iamlindoro:

who gives a fuck?

[23:59:16]

perlmonkey:

well you're on ignore so carry on all you like

[23:59:23]

iamlindoro:

"In the past, time shifting was done with a video cassette recorder (VCR) and its timer function, in which the VCR tunes into the appropriate station and records the show onto video tape."

[23:59:25]

iamlindoro:

wheeeeee!

[23:59:33]

iamlindoro:

/ignore truth

[23:59:38]

fignuts:

volume within mythtv is lower than volume from vlc/ubuntu

[23:59:39]

iamlindoro:

nope, try as you might, can't do that

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