Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Saturday, September 6th, 2008, 00:00 UTC

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iamlindoro:

Going to college in Silicon Valley and using a framegrabber. Shameful!

[00:03:12]

iamlindoro:

anyway, the most likely reason for that would be incorrect frequency table-- but you would be FAR better served going over to Fry's (Brokaw road, bitches!) and getting yourself a shiny Hauppauge HVR-1600

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rnd:

evening..

[00:05:35]

iamlindoro:

sphery, isn't the -users list fun when explicit three-step directions with keystrokes cannot be followed accurately?

[00:05:44]

sphery:

:)

[00:05:59]

rnd:

I'm trying to get my lircrc hauppauge remote working in myth, the kernel drivers are picking up basic input like arrows and numbers and myth is picking that up

[00:06:01]

Adman65:

hmm

[00:06:02]

sphery:

I ran out of ways to say it, so I had to get creative with the last response

[00:06:07]

Adman65:

turns out that it is working out of composite

[00:06:17]

Adman65:

i think there is something funky out of the cable

[00:06:36]

iamlindoro:

Adman65, I presume you mean the "ins" and not "outs" (as your card has no outs)

[00:06:46]

Adman65:

err

[00:06:47]

iamlindoro:

and once again, almost certainly using the wrong frequency table

[00:06:47]

rnd:

Then I installed lircrc to run off the kernel input device, which works fine with the mapping I gave it on the config file. I can't get it to interface with mythtv though, am I just not doing something simple?

[00:06:50]

Adman65:

i mean out of the box itself

[00:07:20]

Adman65:

its not like standard cable, but it has a fancy menu where you change channels and such

[00:07:31]

kormoc:

dustybin, so how does living at your sister's house with no job, no car, no life, etc help prove the case that you're not a druggie?

[00:07:32]

iamlindoro:

if you are capturing out of a STB into coaxial (which, by the way, is the lowest quality by FAR... use S-video instead) then your card would need to be tuned to a particular channel, likely 3 or 4, and you will still need the correct frequency table set

[00:07:48]

Adman65:

if i use the composite out of the cable box it works fine and i can use the remote to control it

[00:08:42]

iamlindoro:

Your STB's Coaxial out is not a "passthrough," it will only dump out the current channel on the box on a particular RF channel (3 or 4)

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iamlindoro:

and, again, that is the worst possible quality-- S-vid or composite are FAR superior

[00:09:33]

dustybin:

kormoc: i do have a car

[00:09:40]

Adman65:

well i am using composite currently

[00:09:41]

iamlindoro:

but no means of fueling it

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dustybin:

i have savings

[00:10:01]

iamlindoro:

oh yay, I guess that'll last forever then

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dustybin:

my plan now is to do the: A+ NETWORK+ LINUX+ then find a job as a 1st line help desk support

[00:10:32]

Dagmar:

You're joking, right?

[00:10:34]

dustybin:

even if the cash is crap

[00:10:37]

dustybin:

nope not

[00:10:47]

dustybin:

i been working with macs for 14 years, need a change in career

[00:10:52]

Dagmar:

First tier help desk == flipcard monkeys

[00:11:03]

** kormoc blinks **

[00:11:16]

Dagmar:

If you get an A+, Network+, Linux+ you will be way overqualified.

[00:11:20]

rnd:

Talking to users voluntarily is more like a life choice...

[00:11:21]

kormoc:

14 years of experience and you're wanting to go back to square one and get minimum wage?

[00:11:25]

Dagmar:

Tier II at _least_

[00:11:26]

dustybin:

well i need to get my foot in the door first

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Dagmar:

\If not technical lead

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Dagmar:

Ask for a tier II position.

[00:11:52]

Adman65:

well it is working nicely with composite

[00:11:53]

dustybin:

that might being learning some MS shite

[00:12:02]

dustybin:

mean

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Adman65:

all i have to do now is figure out how to get audio working

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iamlindoro:

Adman65, you *want* composite-- RF IS THE WORST QUALITY)

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Dagmar:

Tier I will be you fielding calls from people who get confused when you say "Is the computer on?"

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Adman65:

Rodger that

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dustybin:

lol

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Adman65:

im new at all this cable stuff

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dustybin:

that sounds like fun

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Adman65:

never learned about it that much

[00:13:20]

dustybin:

"im sorry ive forgotton my password" <--- i want to be the guy on the other end of the phone

[00:13:24]

Adman65:

i need an rca to 1/8 adapter

[00:13:39]

Dagmar:

To the Radio Shack!

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** kormoc blinks **

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iamlindoro:

uhhh that is not the job of Help Desk

[00:14:08]

directhex:

no you don't

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kormoc:

Perhaps he's just aiming high

[00:14:18]

directhex:

tech support is shitty

[00:14:23]

directhex:

really shitty

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iamlindoro:

and if you MUST get a certification, at least get one that teaches you skills like a CCNP

[00:14:47]

directhex:

it;'s bad enough when they say their atom simulations don't proces enough eigenvalues per ligand, and it must be a hardware problem

[00:14:51]

Dagmar:

Just pretend everyone calling you would be underqualified for Dalnet and you'll have some idea

[00:14:51]

kormoc:

I just don't get how 14 years of experience (which means like, very nice pay) could go to tech support

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dustybin:

i might aim to do the rhel exams after that

[00:15:07]

directhex:

"MOAR plugged in" is not something anyone wants to deal with

[00:15:19]

iamlindoro:

ok, ok, everyone, let's step back here

[00:15:36]

iamlindoro:

we're trying to help a proven idiot who is high on ecstasy make correct life choices

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dustybin:

kormoc: i been a apple mac artworker for 14 years, now i want to do I.T.

[00:15:53]

iamlindoro:

Let's all accomplish the same end by shooting ourselves in the head with nailguns

[00:16:02]

Dagmar:

hehe

[00:16:37]

kormoc:

dustybin, tech support isn't I.T., I.T. is all about architecture and technology. Tech support is all about customer service, entirely different fields

[00:16:38]

directhex:

don't forget to bring a towel!

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kormoc:

but anyway, it's beyond me why anyone would go to tech support at free will

[00:17:06]

directhex:

kormoc, it's fabulously well paid?

[00:17:18]

kormoc:

$5 a hour is amazing!

[00:17:52]

rnd:

i'd rather die a horrible repeatedly being stabbed in the face over the internet death vs. a slow death inside of users

[00:17:54]

directhex:

everyone's IQ drops 50 points when they see a computer. now imagine the average idiot

[00:18:06]

dustybin:

i dont really like the idea of learning windows shite, id rather put my time into studying networking + *nix

[00:18:10]

rnd:

er

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directhex:

now imagine the average idiot with a computer

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rnd:

s/users/userspace

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iamlindoro:

and yet you are proposing getting certifications designed to educate the single-digit-IQ crown

[00:18:55]

iamlindoro:

crowd

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Adman65:

man

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iamlindoro:

NETWORK+? Are you fucking *serious*?

[00:19:20]

Adman65:

not hving a car blows

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dustybin:

why?

[00:19:31]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: All things considered, it's not bad

[00:19:36]

dustybin:

nope

[00:19:45]

Dagmar:

You get a piece of paper without too much effort, and it looks better than an MCSE

[00:19:48]

iamlindoro:

http://www.bestsamplequestions.com/network-pl . . . estions.html

[00:19:50]

iamlindoro:

no no

[00:19:53]

iamlindoro:

go to that link

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iamlindoro:

and read questions

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iamlindoro:

and tell me that it's a worthwhile cert.

[00:20:10]

Dagmar:

Dude, there's people who actually don't know those. Heheh

[00:20:39]

mzb_d800:

then there's the idea that *any* cert is a worthless piece of paper

[00:20:40]

dustybin:

I.T. is BIG, after ive got my foot in the door id have to purify myself into 1 subject

[00:20:54]

mzb_d800:

but then, I don't work, so what would I know ;)

[00:21:06]

iamlindoro:

again, if you MUST study for a cert, make it a CCNA, then a CCNP

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directhex:

ick

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directhex:

vendor certs break brains

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directhex:

or at least stunt them

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dustybin:

iamlindoro: are those cisco exams?

[00:21:37]

mzb_d800:

doing certs only makes sense if you constantly update them

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iamlindoro:

directhex, There's lots of non-vendor specific stuff in there, at least, that's why I choose those in particular

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mzb_d800:

(and get paid to do so)

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iamlindoro:

dustybin, yes, they are cisco certs

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dustybin:

ok

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mzb_d800:

netprep?

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mzb_d800:

(3com?)

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directhex:

i'm looking at a cross-platform network security course

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directhex:

mostly i prefer to just use experience on my CV, though. i've had fake letters before

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directhex:

they weren't worth the money

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sphery:

iamlindoro: last response on that thread. Either he's not doing the 3-step directions with keystrokes, or guessing how he reconfigured his system is too much work.

[00:22:52]

Dagmar:

So, when did 1111111 become a network ID for loopback?

[00:23:09]

directhex:

huh?

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iamlindoro:

sphery, I stop reading after 3–5 responses, usually

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Dagmar:

Question 4 on that sample page

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kormoc:

Dagmar, what sample page?

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directhex:

O RLY?

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Dagmar:

I guess that's pretty typical of most of the standardized tests I've seen

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mzb_d800:

X years of experience in the real world is going to be taken over a cert any day

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Dagmar:

10% of them have insanely wrong answers

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sphery:

certification exams: real-world proof you can pass an exam

[00:24:04]

Dagmar:

http://www.bestsamplequestions.com/network-pl . . . estions.html

[00:24:19]

sphery:

iamlindoro: your approach is probably better than mine

[00:24:30]

dustybin:

i've never understood what I.T. support people do, if the network is running properly, surely there shouldnt be any work to do

[00:24:39]

mzb_d800:

heh

[00:24:39]

iamlindoro:

sphery, I went way too far trying to help/set people straight on the HD-PVR, I have given up

[00:24:49]

dustybin:

everything should be automated

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Dagmar:

#6 represents "equipment so hellishly old you know your career is in the drain if you encounter it"

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directhex:

#7 is just retarded

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sphery:

iamlindoro: at least the HD-PVR is actually challenging at this point :)

[00:25:29]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: the System Administrators Guild would rip your nuts off for that statement ;)

[00:25:39]

directhex:

dustybin, wrong. tech support fields "the internet doesn't work!" calls

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directhex:

dustybin, now, system adminitration, that IS a reactionary job

[00:26:00]

mzb_d800:

(SAGE)

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dustybin:

well, if you are a good sysadmin, you would automate everything

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mzb_d800:

phht

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Dagmar:

Yep. Good sysadmins get to drink a lot of coffee

[00:26:28]

directhex:

it's true. the best systems managers should feel able to play quake with confidence

[00:26:32]

iamlindoro:

sphery, But still plagued by the same refusal to listen. "Hey, I can play HD-PVR stuff *fine*!" "umm... at 6 Mbit." "Really? How can he do that?" "Because it's at 6 Mbit." "But my system can't play this 13.5 Mbit file!" "THE SAMPLE IS SIX FECKING MBIT!!"

[00:27:24]

dustybin:

"Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done." – Linus Torvalds

[00:27:41]

sphery:

iamlindoro: heh

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** kormoc blinks **

[00:29:13]

directhex:

teh bedtime

[00:29:30]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: thanks for that ... I'd always been told my approach was LAZY! ;)

[00:29:39]

dustybin:

:P

[00:30:31]

iamlindoro:

yes, dustybin, you're the next linus torvalds all right

[00:30:53]

directhex:

you know, this banshee plugin is awesome

[00:31:22]

directhex:

it scans all your media, such that you drag a song you're in the mood for into the "playlist generator", and it'll make playlists with the same vibe

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directhex:

no metadata, pure computation

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mzb_d800:

vibe detecting algorithm? gee

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ph0rensi1:

Does anyone using gnome and myth tv find a way to get pop up windows like web and games to open on top of mythtv so you can see it w/o having to alt-tab

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Dagmar:

fail

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Dagmar:

GOogle "devilspie"

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Dagmar:

...or learn how to use your window manager.

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[R]:

i just added a dvd drive to my system... everything was fine... and now it gets stuck while loading... the last thing it says is '2008-09–05 17:36:58.003 MediaMonitorUnix::GetCDROMBlockDevices() returning sr0'... if i start a 2nd instace of mythfrontend, it loads properly... do i have a setting wrong somewhere?

[00:39:35]

ph0rensi1:

Way to make noobs feel welcome to the linux community dagmar

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Dagmar:

It's not this channel's job to teach you Linux

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Dagmar:

Your question was entirely not MythTV's responsibility

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Dagmar:

Way to waste other people's time

[00:40:14]

iamlindoro:

every time someone complains about lack of courtesy in IRC, Jesus sodomizes a kitten

[00:40:16]

ph0rensi1:

Nor is it to ridicule those who aren't technically as savvy as you

[00:40:29]

iamlindoro:

IRC is THUNDERDOME

[00:40:35]

iamlindoro:

two men enter, one man leaves

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Dagmar:

Not my fault you can't even figure out that your question belongs in #GNOME or #KDE

[00:40:51]

Dagmar:

Putting numbers in your name doesn't make you leet, btw.

[00:41:27]

dustybin:

its almost as bad as mzb_d800 :P

[00:41:34]

cout:

I'm more thirty-one thousand three hundred thirty seven than all of y'all

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mzb_d800:

?

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Dagmar:

olol

[00:41:42]

ph0rensi1:

that 1 is a default by my irc client first of all

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Dagmar:

The zero is enough to make us suspect you're a tosser before you even type word one.

[00:42:10]

ph0rensi1:

no one ever claimed to be leet

[00:42:14]

dustybin:

LOL

[00:42:22]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: notbody's as bad as me are they?

[00:42:22]

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dustybin:

ph0rensi1: remove the 0 and 1

[00:42:28]

Dagmar:

Your bitching after I told you about devilspie confirms it.

[00:42:29]

mzb_d800:

(poor bugger)

[00:42:40]

dustybin:

mzb_d800: only joking

[00:42:54]

** mzb_d800 only pokes one of dustybin's eyes out **

[00:43:25]

dustybin:

a lot of people in this room are slowly turning into justinh types

[00:43:31]

dustybin:

*channel

[00:43:32]

mzb_d800:

yes

[00:44:07]

mzb_d800:

I suspect it's either a caffeine imbalance or something to do with insecurity

[00:44:11]

dustybin:

LOL

[00:44:13]

mzb_d800:

hard to tell from afar

[00:44:41]

mzb_d800:

that being said, justinh has mellowed a bit recently ;)

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ph0rensi1 is now known as phorensic

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dustybin:

thats better

[00:45:11]

mzb_d800:

(probably wearing looser panties?)

[00:45:29]

Dagmar:

dustybin: It's the result of being regularly bitched at

[00:45:38]

dustybin:

lol yes

[00:46:11]

Dagmar:

"my puter is on fire help plz"

[00:46:15]

** mzb_d800 flicks the "ignore bitch" button **

[00:46:21]

Dagmar:

"WTF, get an extinguisher!"

[00:46:25]

dustybin:

ive never ever heard justinh say something positive about anything, ever, he always manages to find something wrong with something

[00:46:27]

Dagmar:

"WHY DO U HATE PPL SO MUCH!"

[00:47:08]

Dagmar:

Hell we saw an example not ten minutes ago

[00:47:13]

dustybin:

even if something is 100% perfect, justinh will surely find something wrong with it

[00:47:23]

Dagmar:

dustybin: The benefits of OCD.

[00:47:30]

dustybin:

heh

[00:47:30]

mzb_d800:

*cough*

[00:47:33]

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mzb_d800:

there's OCD, and then there are those with ... high ratings

[00:48:15]

mzb_d800:

(different range)

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[00:50:09]

quentusrex_lapto:

Where are mythtv frontend settings stored? mysql settings? or in a flat file?

[00:50:19]

mzb_d800:

mysql

[00:50:20]

Dagmar:

In the database

[00:50:49]

quentusrex_lapto:

ok

[00:51:01]

Dagmar:

There's what amounts to a "hint" file that the frontend can use which tells it where to find the mysql server, but unless you've done something crazy it will usually be able to find the backend using uPnP and get the information about the database from the backend.

[00:51:22]

quentusrex_lapto:

I'm talking about file type definitions

[00:51:33]

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Dagmar:

They are also stored according to the _hostname_

[00:52:00]

Dagmar:

So, if you change the hostname on your frontend, be ready to start from scratch on that config

[00:52:26]

Dagmar:

...or forcibly set an identifier in the frontend setup, but I'm not 100% sure about that bit

[00:53:11]

Dagmar:

I'm still picking out the occasional reference to 'ammo' after my last hostname change

[00:55:31]

mzb_d800:

ps: many of those psycho-analytical tests done during employment issues identify aspects of O/C behaviour (among other things) ... depending on the job, an employer may actually want someone with high O/C as they make good problem solvers, and once a procedure is learned that procedure can be repeated ad finitum

[00:55:56]

mzb_d800:

s/employment issues/employment interviews/

[00:56:17]

mzb_d800:

repeat: high O/C != OCD

[00:56:38]

mzb_d800:

^^ example of O/C behaviour ;)

[00:56:43]

Dagmar:

ONly problem, on the extreme end they may adopt a policy of "I'm fixing this problem or I'm bringing the AK into work tomorrrow."

[00:56:53]

mzb_d800:

no that's OCD

[00:57:00]

mzb_d800:

psychotic range

[00:57:06]

mzb_d800:

as opposed to normal range

[00:57:06]

Dagmar:

I see. So the moment they start shooting people it becomes a disorder.

[00:57:16]

iamlindoro:

abqjp, mkrufky gave me a hint on our mobo-- he says if you turn on the BIOS option to disable the LAN ports where no link is present, it stabilizes in linux

[00:57:19]

mzb_d800:

they are two seperate ranges

[00:57:38]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: You just gotta wait out HAL's timeout

[00:57:38]

iamlindoro:

abqjp, I am also upgrading to the latest BIOS which allegedly fixes numerous issues

[00:57:45]

mzb_d800:

or maybe the person you're talking about is a psychopath with high O/C ? ;))

[00:58:13]

Dagmar:

Hey, maybe there's some people that needs killin'. Ever consider that?

[00:58:23]

mzb_d800:

no

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[00:59:26]

mzb_d800:

killing doesn't compute

[01:11:52]

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[01:15:57]

jpabq:

iamlindoro, interesting. Let me know how it goes. Since I add the Intel NIC, my system is working well, but I would not mind moving my HDhomeruns to a dedicated NIC.

[01:17:00]

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[01:18:14]

iamlindoro:

jpabq, I shall-- doing the freeDOS tango trying to get BIOS updated now, but will try when I'm back up and running

[01:24:38]

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[01:24:48]

nishi:

anyone use sasc-ng?

[01:26:25]

iamlindoro:

That is 100% offlimits talk here

[01:26:49]

iamlindoro:

as we don't support stealing

[01:27:05]

iamlindoro:

you may go

[01:27:42]

nishi:

lol

[01:32:11]

[R]:

lol

[01:36:35]

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[01:38:31]

Striker:

blah...setting a schedule to record a minute past the end will conflict with itself? i thought mythtv was smarter than that =\

[01:42:21]

squish102:

can any1 suggest a remote that works well with mythtv?

[01:42:34]

squish102:

and is cheap ;)

[01:42:48]

squish102:

and does not entail making one myself :P

[01:43:33]

kormoc:

Microsoft mce usb remote

[01:43:37]

kormoc:

awesome remote

[01:43:57]

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[01:44:58]

squish102:

ok, im bidding on a couple on ebay atm

[01:48:28]

Striker:

ebay?

[01:49:16]

Striker:

that's almost like asking for a suggestion on what TV to buy and then going to a garage sale to get it

[01:53:18]

squish102:

lol

[01:54:21]

Striker:

look: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121003

[01:56:35]

kormoc:

that's certainly not the remote I'm recommending

[01:57:04]

squish102:

that is what i would be worried about.

[01:57:17]

squish102:

i don't need the remote though, only the ir receiver

[01:57:39]

kormoc:

so why ask bout remotes if you want receivers?

[01:57:46]

kormoc:

not every receiver works with every remote

[01:57:58]

squish102:

i have a logitech remote

[01:58:28]

squish102:

works with 1000's of devices, but the 2 ir receivers i have dont work with mythbuntu :(

[01:59:13]

kormoc:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880100851

[01:59:21]

Striker:

kormoc: i have that *EXACT* remote sitting in front of me

[01:59:30]

Striker:

it's working great with mythtv

[01:59:40]

Striker:

it's just a mce remote

[01:59:47]

Striker:

2nd version, not the first

[02:00:40]

kormoc:

Striker, I never said yours wouldn't work, just that it's not one I'd recommend. The ir blasters on the official mce remote are really handy and the remote is one I really like

[02:01:40]

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[02:01:53]

Striker:

he asked for a remote that works with mythtv...nothing fancy

[02:02:02]

Striker:

esepcially since he's going to ebay to buy one

[02:02:08]

Striker:

woo i can type

[02:02:26]

quink:

hey question. I recently switched my system to have mythtv autostart and run off of a new user(mythtv) instead of running under my user and manually starting it, but i'm running into trouble

[02:02:39]

kormoc:

Striker, so I can't recommend the remote I feel is solid?

[02:02:40]

quink:

When i play a video i choose to use xine and when it returns the remote stops working

[02:03:07]

kormoc:

quink, are you running a window manager?

[02:03:14]

quink:

fvwm

[02:03:28]

quink:

the only difference is the using of a new user instead of my old one

[02:03:32]

kormoc:

try alt tabbing and see if it's a focus issue?

[02:03:43]

quink:

i copied all my .xine and .mythtv lircrc files over and chmod them to that user

[02:03:48]

Striker:

kormoc: yeah, but if he's going to ebay, sounds more like he wants something quick and cheap

[02:03:49]

quink:

kormoc: no keyboard hooked up.

[02:03:58]

Striker:

which is why I linked to the one I use

[02:04:01]

quink:

but its very very basic. The only thing that starts up and runs is mythtv

[02:05:17]

kormoc:

Striker, which I feel my recommendation is. $40 new isn't bad. the mce usb remote I recommended works out of the box with lirc, I have the recommended lircrc file in myth's repo so it's a drop in and go for myth's bindings...

[02:06:05]

kormoc:

quink, if it's focus, that's the only way I'd know to verify is to hook up a keyboard and see if it fixes it or not

[02:06:12]

Striker:

kormoc: which is exactly what you'd do for the $20 remote I linked as well o_O

[02:06:44]

kormoc:

Striker, I still fail to see why you have a problem with me expressing my own opinion...

[02:06:49]

quink:

kormoc: i will try that. Other then the focus does anything come to mind or you aren't willing to guess until that is known for sure?

[02:07:25]

kormoc:

quink, that's the most common cause. Out side of that, it could be any number of things that I don't really know offhand how to test

[02:07:30]

Striker:

kormoc: on the contrary, you seemed to have an issue with mine...

[02:07:54]

quink:

kormoc: okay. I just found it weird that I haven't really changed much and the configs are all the same is all.

[02:07:56]

Striker:

which is why i was saying that remote works just as well ;P

[02:07:57]

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[02:08:05]

kormoc:

Striker, I just said it's not the remote I'd recommend. That's an opinion.

[02:08:10]

quink:

But obviously hte most simple answer is probably right

[02:10:13]

Striker:

kormoc: I realize that, but i feel the same way about the other remote, so when you said you wouldn't recommend it, it sounded more like you were recommending against it... tone doesn't come over so well via text is all ^_^

[02:11:58]

kormoc:

fair 'nuff

[02:14:23]

iamlindoro:

/msg laga I don't know if you are interested/helped by notes re: the trunk repository-- appears it no longer installs a compiled firewire_tester either. I won't send these notes if they're obnoxious, just let me know

[02:14:29]

iamlindoro:

oh god damn it ;)

[02:17:37]

** purserj wants to know if the notes are obnoxious now **

[02:18:08]

iamlindoro:

only to my pride :)

[02:18:18]

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[02:23:20]

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[02:24:48]

psm321:

hi

[02:25:29]

psm321:

i'm trying to understand the storage group local vs. remote stuff, and having trouble understanding how it works

[02:25:41]

psm321:

is myth somehow able to tell where a dir is mounted from?

[02:27:19]

strex:

I'm wondering what the CPU usage is from someone running myth on a single machine (FE&BE) while watching 'Live TV'..??

[02:27:58]

strex:

psm321: http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Storage_Groups_Weighting

[02:28:02]

feltis:

its pretty high

[02:28:07]

feltis:

I do that

[02:28:14]

strex:

that explained a lot for me..

[02:28:28]

strex:

feltis: like how high?

[02:28:39]

strex:

e.g. what does 'top' show?

[02:29:03]

feltis:

strex: I'm experimenting atm with different distros, in the middle of building a LFS system on the box. When that's done (sometime next week) I'll do a load test

[02:29:25]

strex:

I'm trying to make a compairison because my mythfrountend process is taking up about 62% CPU (seems really high to me).

[02:29:30]

psm321:

strex: yeah i already have that page open

[02:29:52]

psm321:

strex: i'm confused by the whole explanation of figuring out what server a drive is on

[02:30:21]

strex:

feltis: thanks, I would like to know..

[02:30:51]

strex:

psm321: honestly it's in the code.. I'm sure you could dig through the source and find out :p

[02:31:08]

strex:

I just found it handy to know what is priority, and what isn't.

[02:31:41]

psm321:

strex: yeah i'm looking at the code, unfortunately it seems to call Qt code to do a lot of the file info stuff and i don't have a copy of that source tree handy at the moment

[02:32:32]

strex:

psm321: I'm sure a question posted to one of the mythtv mailing lists would lend some answers.

[02:33:05]

psm321:

heh, i'm going to do some more digging myself first, just thought i'd ask here in case someone happened to know or have investigated it already

[02:33:09]

psm321:

thanks for the help

[02:33:10]

iamlindoro:

Or simply check the archive as it's been discussed ad nauseum in the last two weeks

[02:33:43]

strex:

hey, iamlindoro how you been..?

[02:33:52]

iamlindoro:

same old same old

[02:34:17]

psm321:

thanks iamlindoro

[02:35:09]

strex:

iamlindoro: would you know an answer to my question above.. about mythfrontend cpu load?

[02:35:17]

iamlindoro:

psm321, The discussion was specific to network mounts, too... pay close attention to Michael Dean's responses, which are very accurate

[02:35:51]

iamlindoro:

strex, that'll be relative to the CPU itself, but if it's 62% at idle, that's awful high... if it's 62% while playing something, that could be appropriate

[02:36:27]

strex:

iamlindoro: it's while watching 'LiveTV' and the other tuners are idle.

[02:36:45]

iamlindoro:

strex, in that case it sounds about right-- what CPU and what type of material being watched?

[02:37:21]

strex:

iamlindoro: Cpu is 2.2 P4, and material is SD tv.

[02:37:40]

iamlindoro:

strex, with a P4 of that spec, I think 62% is about right

[02:37:52]

feltis:

my proccessor sucks in the box so I don't think a load test on my box would give much info. AMD Duron 1200

[02:38:36]

strex:

iamlindoro: thanks, I'm thinking about seperating my FE and BE and adding another tuner to the BE for some better performance.

[02:39:01]

strex:

and useability for that matter

[02:39:23]

iamlindoro:

strex, sounds like a plan-- that machine would make a decent backend, and you might want to get a nice little C2D for the frontend

[02:39:38]

strex:

C2D?

[02:39:42]

iamlindoro:

Core 2 Duo

[02:40:12]

strex:

iamlindoro: yea, I know but that would unfortunatly involve upgrading the Mb too..

[02:40:35]

iamlindoro:

That is true

[02:41:14]

feltis:

do most people build from source or distro packages?

[02:41:21]

psm321:

iamlindoro: do you happen to know the subject and/or keywords to search for? my search for storage groups doesn't seem to be turning up the right threads

[02:42:09]

strex:

iamlindoro: have you heard good things about the WinTV-HVR-1600, I just ordered one after some research..

[02:42:18]

iamlindoro:

psm321, I think this is the thread you want http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008-August/231721.html

[02:42:28]

iamlindoro:

strex, yes, it now works quite well w/ linux and myth

[02:42:45]

strex:

awesome, good to hear, should be in my BE on Tues..

[02:43:01]

iamlindoro:

psm321, and you'll have to go back to the thread list because the thread is broken is several places

[02:43:29]

iamlindoro:

also see here later in the thread: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008-August/231795.html

[02:44:04]

iamlindoro:

There's LOTS of catty bitching in that thread, but if you stick with Kevin and Michael's responses, you will get accurate info about the behavior

[02:44:14]

psm321:

thanks

[02:44:30]

strex:

iamlindoro: I've talked to you quite a bit before, and just out of curiousity what do you run, sw / hw wise?

[02:45:06]

psm321:

iamlindoro: sorry, i had ignored that thread from the subject line since i dont autoexpire

[02:45:24]

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[02:46:04]

iamlindoro:

strex, My netboot frontend is a Core 2 Duo E4500 @ 2.2 Ghz w/ 4GB RAM and nvidia graphics. My downstairs backend/frontend is a Core 2 Quad Q6600 w/ 8 GB RAM and 10 TB of storage. Capture cards are 2 x QAM tuners, 2 x Firewire Set top boxes, 1 x Hauppauge HD-PVR.

[02:46:52]

forrestv:

iamlindoro, any way to get the status of a frontend without parsing output/modifying source?

[02:47:02]

psm321:

10TB, nice

[02:47:08]

iamlindoro:

forrestv, what particular information are you trying to query?

[02:47:13]

GreyFoxx:

Forr: What sort of status ?

[02:47:26]

forrestv:

iamlindoro, whether video is currently playing

[02:47:31]

GreyFoxx:

use the telnet interface

[02:47:33]

forrestv:

or audio

[02:47:36]

GreyFoxx:

query location

[02:47:52]

iamlindoro:

forrestv, as GreyFoxx says (also helps that he wrote that particular bit ;) )

[02:47:56]

strex:

brb rr

[02:48:10]

GreyFoxx:

# query location

[02:48:10]

GreyFoxx:

Playback Video 00:30:26 1x /data/video/Movies/Shrek.avi 54755 29.97

[02:48:17]

GreyFoxx:

That's what Im watching right now

[02:48:44]

iamlindoro:

Playback Video 00:30:26 1x /video/Filthy_Porno/Midgets_gone_wild.avi 54755 29.97

[02:48:47]

iamlindoro:

hey, it DOES work!

[02:48:52]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[02:48:53]

iamlindoro:

;)

[02:51:28]

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[02:53:40]

forrestv:

GreyFoxx, any way to tell if music is playing? you don't have to be in the music location for it to be playing. maybe check if the alsa device is in use?

[02:53:48]

GreyFoxx:

nope

[02:53:56]

GreyFoxx:

that is just what myth is doing right now

[02:54:34]

GreyFoxx:

no real way to see if the background music player is going on

[02:54:46]

forrestv:

GreyFoxx, does myth doesn't have the audio device open when nothing is playing, right?

[02:54:59]

GreyFoxx:

right

[02:55:03]

GreyFoxx:

only open when in use

[02:55:13]

forrestv:

(this is for making a script that turns tv/amp off when not in use, individually)

[02:55:25]

psm321:

iamlindoro: thanks for the pointer. i've skimmed that thread, and it seems to be mostly about how myth decides which directory to use. what i was more trying to figure out was the syntax for the SGWeightPerDir detting (particularly the server part). What I basically want to do is set the starting weight for my new nfs mount to be ridiculously high so it's basically read-only, but the whole description on the wiki page of how to

[02:55:26]

psm321:

the "server" should be has me confused

[02:56:27]

psm321:

note that i only have one backend right now, if that makes things any simpler

[02:56:54]

psm321:

so i think the server should always be localhost even for an nfs mounted drive if i understand that page correctly, but i'm not sure

[02:59:07]

psm321:

would be nice if myth had an absolute read-only setting :)

[03:00:57]

psm321:

btw, iamlindoro, where are you that you're able to get QAM/firewire? (my impression was that most channels on both those are encrypted in most areas)

[03:01:29]

feltis:

some are some aren't

[03:01:36]

iamlindoro:

psm321, My QAM channels are fairly limited, but I get everything via firewire in CA's Silicon Valley

[03:01:48]

psm321:

nice

[03:01:50]

feltis:

I get some channels over the firewire just fine

[03:02:10]

psm321:

i've got a QAM card, still have to plug it in and try it out but i'm not expecting much

[03:03:00]

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[03:03:10]

iamlindoro:

It's appropriate not to expect much :)

[03:03:24]

feltis:

for some reason the local cable co decided to open the USB ports as well and you can add a HD in to the DVR

[03:03:36]

iamlindoro:

You will likely get network TV in HD, and local SD channels, and not much else-- but even that isn't half bad (as I record a fair number of things on the networks)

[03:05:04]

feltis:

you should get everything that you would get if you plugged your cable into a standard TV

[03:05:37]

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[03:05:38]

iamlindoro:

Well, if it's a normal TV with an analog tuner, the channels will be different than you would get via QAM

[03:06:10]

feltis:

thats true

[03:06:42]

feltis:

I have a analog tuner in my computer so thats what I compare it with

[03:08:35]

feltis:

iamlindoro: how do you have your 10TB configured if you don't mind my asking?

[03:08:50]

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[03:09:00]

iamlindoro:

feltis, in RAID 6 (as super-fast speeds aren't really necessary for digital video)

[03:09:14]

iamlindoro:

but I have learned that the redundancy is priceless :)

[03:10:05]

feltis:

indeed, I have 3 1 TB drives I'm putting together into a raid array, just wondering FS and any other peculiars that a large size FS might need

[03:10:24]

iamlindoro:

ah, I use XFS with a chunk size of 512K

[03:11:36]

iamlindoro:

I like XFS for fast deletes and relatively decent handling of extremely large files

[03:11:55]

iamlindoro:

as I have ripped all my Blu-ray disks to the array, and they are generally 20–30GB for the movie itself

[03:12:03]

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[03:12:43]

feltis:

I've been putting all my DVD's on one of the TB drives, the goal being never to have to leave the comfort of my chair to change a DVD, along with I wrote a database system that catologs my DVD's and makes "playlists"

[03:16:59]

feltis:

how's the blu-ray ripping work out? I've been looking at a cheap internal blu-ray drive, but I didn't know if I could get a software player or even rip them

[03:19:15]

iamlindoro:

You can rip them, but the ripping is *exceedingly* limited in linux. the best current solution is to have a windows box (or run windows in VMWare, as I do) and use Slysoft's AnyDVD HD

[03:19:42]

iamlindoro:

only AnyDVD HD can currently rip all movies, as the linux alternative (DumpHD) can only do a small minority of disks

[03:20:48]

feltis:

oh, this may be a touchy subject, but does it decrypt them? I'm not really looking to do that... I rip all my DVD's currently 1:1 from the dvd media into a file and then play that in a software player. Is there something like that for bluray?

[03:21:15]

feltis:

I worry about small hands ruining more of my discs :D

[03:21:23]

Dagmar:

That and not having lawyers or a neutral territory to hide in, the open-source guys aren't going to do a whole lot to get around the screwball copy hindering mechanisms the studios use

[03:21:26]

iamlindoro:

yes, they are all decrypted.

[03:21:48]

feltis:

interesting

[03:21:52]

clever:

what is the limiting factor with dumphd/

[03:22:07]

iamlindoro:

that it cannot do some AACS decryption, and can't do *any* BD+ decrypt

[03:22:16]

clever:

ah

[03:22:24]

iamlindoro:

it is limited to the AACS titles whose keys are known

[03:22:29]

clever:

ahh

[03:22:33]

Dagmar:

The limiting factor is that it's not going to readily dump anything that's not bog-standard, not-particularly-encrypted media

[03:22:36]

iamlindoro:

and since many/most new disks are BD+ protected, it is useless for those

[03:22:38]

clever:

so somebody else has to crack it and post the key?

[03:22:59]

iamlindoro:

clever, with DumpHD, yes. AnyDVD HD will decrypt and rip all known disks

[03:23:04]

clever:

ahh:)

[03:23:20]

Dagmar:

...because AnyDVD can afford lawyers.

[03:23:23]

clever:

makes sense

[03:23:58]

iamlindoro:

and they are outside of US jurisdiction :)

[03:24:00]

clever:

anydvd probly has the proper master key that players need

[03:24:19]

Dagmar:

Nope

[03:24:21]

iamlindoro:

BD+ is more complicated than keys, though, it's an actual VM doing all sorts of fanciness

[03:24:31]

clever:

ah

[03:25:22]

Dagmar:

...up to and including being able to update firmware on the player

[03:25:24]

clever:

so the code on the disk could poke and prod a wide range of query functions and decide if your system is safe or not before releasing a per disk key

[03:25:49]

clever:

yeah ive seen some stuff like that with game consoles before

[03:26:20]

Dagmar:

Like both the PSP and the PS3

[03:26:27]

clever:

yeah

[03:26:40]

clever:

i read a hack for removing the reagion limits on the wii

[03:26:48]

clever:

but it also warns about playing games from outside

[03:27:02]

clever:

since the automatic firmware update may install PAL code on a NTSC box

[03:27:11]

clever:

instant paper weight!

[03:27:29]

Dagmar:

Yep and you have to work hard to feel bad about people who fall prey to that

[03:27:35]

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[03:27:45]

Dagmar:

...because the vast majority of the little punters aren't "using it for homebrew"

[03:27:50]

clever:

there was also a new method to unbrick psp's

[03:28:00]

clever:

you set the serial# of the batery to 000000

[03:28:13]

Dagmar:

That alone will not do it

[03:28:16]

clever:

half the idiots i saw replying thought you had to fry the firmware before you could do that

[03:28:24]

clever:

yeah, all that does is make it boot from the card reader

[03:28:37]

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[03:28:50]

Gimpy:

hi all, i need some help i can't find a driver for pinnacle pci-700 card, when i run lspc the card shows up but program cant find card

[03:28:51]

clever:

but half the idiots thought they had to first fry the firmware, then discover they got painted into a corner because they cant change the serial#

[03:29:29]

Dagmar:

"idiots" is a good word there

[03:29:45]

clever:

yep

[03:30:00]

rdvon:

Can I ask a development related question? :P

[03:30:11]

rdvon:

Will you ever get support for the ati tv wonder elite?

[03:30:32]

Dagmar:

...cuz anyone really looking to do homebrew would pay close attention to the details, and be interested in _understanding_ what they're about to do.

[03:30:50]

Dagmar:

Some kid looking to play the 40–50 pirated images hes got is just going to rush through and brick it

[03:30:58]

Dagmar:

I've seen this a BUNCH

[03:31:00]

iamlindoro:

rdvon, myth doesn't support cards, linux does.

[03:31:06]

clever:

they keep mentionion how you need a pre cracked psp to change the batery serial# but i dont see why an AVR or similar cant do it

[03:31:06]

clever:

i think its just an i2c based eeprom

[03:31:17]

Dagmar:

Youa ctually don't

[03:31:25]

Dagmar:

...but again, it keeps the wankers out

[03:31:32]

rdvon:

iamlindoro: any chance linux will get this support?

[03:31:47]

Dagmar:

Took me about six hours to figure out how to it with just one battery and PSP and then I put the original firmware back

[03:31:59]

rdvon:

how about creating a frontend to mediaportal? This would be extremely helpful for those who have a separate mythtv backend.

[03:32:15]

Dagmar:

wait, what?

[03:32:19]

iamlindoro:

rdvon, "we don't do that here." you'd have to find a willing and interested linuxtv dev

[03:32:25]

Dagmar:

Why would MythTV be making a frontend for MediaPortal, exactly?

[03:33:02]

rdvon:

Not mythtv specifically.

[03:33:18]

Dagmar:

So, a frontend that doesn't actually connect to anything?

[03:33:22]

psm321:

in a VERBOSE() if theres 2 flags ||'d, does that mean both need to be on or either one?

[03:33:41]

Dagmar:

that's an OR operation

[03:33:45]

rdvon:

Dagmar: are you dense? I meant the mythtv dev team.

[03:34:06]

clever:

Dagmar: yes that merges the 2 flags, but how does verbose treat the new bitmap?

[03:34:15]

Dagmar:

rdvon: I don't know how many ways "how about creating a frontend to mediaportal?" is supposed to be interpreted.

[03:34:18]

psm321:

clever took the words out of my mouth

[03:34:23]

Dagmar:

Is this a Reverse Polish Logic thing?

[03:34:37]

Dagmar:

clever: It's a binary operation, dude.

[03:34:57]

clever:

Dagmar: i know, but does verbose use || or && when comparing it to the current flags to choose if it should show it?

[03:35:10]

Dagmar:

clever: Note those constants are setup elsewhere as 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 and so on, dig?

[03:35:30]

clever:

yes, i know each bit refers to a certain verbose flag

[03:35:45]

clever:

ive made my own verbose flag before

[03:36:00]

Dagmar:

So if you're ORing (1) and (2) you get three, and later on inside the routine can AND the value against 1 or 3 for a staggeringly simple boolean test

[03:36:07]

Dagmar:

er 1 or 2

[03:36:10]

psm321:

looks like it does indeed require both :-/

[03:36:41]

clever:

im saying that after you or them together and get 3, do both those bits need to be enabled in the -v for it to display?

[03:37:01]

Dagmar:

Not if you're looking at what I think you're looking at

[03:37:06]

Gimpy:

does anyone know of a pinnacle pci card driver

[03:37:14]

Dagmar:

...which is why they're ORd instead of ANDed (&&)

[03:37:21]

iamlindoro:

Gimpy, we don't do drivers here

[03:37:25]

iamlindoro:

#linuxtv

[03:37:31]

Gimpy:

ok

[03:37:49]

clever:

if i 1 && 2, i get 0 which would just not work under verbose

[03:38:02]

clever:

enless the VB_IMPORTANT stuff isnt static

[03:38:05]

Dagmar:

You would only AND them for a test

[03:38:17]

Dagmar:

You wouldn't AND them trying to pass a value to something else

[03:38:44]

clever:

i'll just have to play with it later to figure it out:P

[03:38:44]

psm321:

#define VERBOSE(mask,args...) \

[03:38:44]

psm321:

if ((print_verbose_messages & (mask)) == (mask)) \

[03:39:02]

Dagmar:

dingdingding psm321++

[03:39:04]

psm321:

so it requires the entire mask to be set

[03:39:18]

psm321:

which means both verbose flags

[03:39:25]

Dagmar:

"entire mask" at that point is rather likely to be just one bit

[03:39:30]

clever:

i also forgot that VERBOSE is a define

[03:39:31]

feltis:

crap my wife's look up romantic "bed and breakfast" get aways... there goes my new MB and CPU

[03:39:32]

Dagmar:

er ont bit set

[03:39:50]

psm321:

not if it was VERBOSE(VB_FILE || VB_SCHEDULE, "hello")

[03:40:10]

clever:

so whatever i pass it, can be used unevaluated

[03:40:39]

Dagmar:

clever: What kind of history coding do you have? Like what languages have you used?

[03:41:08]

clever:

Dagmar: c c++ qbasic javascript php perl others

[03:41:11]

Dagmar:

I'm hoping I can get some insight into how to explain this better

[03:41:19]

Dagmar:

Okay, so did you do any *serious* work in any of those?

[03:41:41]

clever:

some actual examples like VERBOSE(flags,"only print when file and schedule is on"); would help

[03:41:59]

clever:

ive got a massive php&javascript firefox extension&site

[03:42:07]

Dagmar:

People can write completely insane code that still works

[03:42:10]

clever:

along with many php scripts that maintain a 4gig mysql database

[03:42:27]

clever:

i'll pastebin one of my latest creations

[03:42:58]

iamlindoro:

god help us

[03:43:02]

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[03:43:07]

Dagmar:

There's a reason to collapse flags into a small bitfield, but some languages auto-vivify and so forth so it simply doesn't click in people's heads unless they've studied certain things

[03:43:17]

Dagmar:

Mainly when you're looking at them it *should* be pretty obvious what they're doing.

[03:43:21]

psm321:

bitfields make perfect sense

[03:43:29]

Dagmar:

I'm trying to figure out where the missing piece is that

[03:43:30]

clever:

http://pastebin.com/d4a5895dd

[03:43:39]

Dagmar:

's why you're not just looking at it and going "Oh."

[03:43:44]

clever:

c++ program to daemonize mythbackend and restart it whenever it crashes

[03:43:49]

psm321:

what i'm trying to say (well earlier was trying to figure out, now am trying to say) is that the VERBOSE macro does the wrong thing with the bitfield

[03:43:58]

clever:

i know i could have done it in sh or bash but i wanted something to practice my c++ on

[03:44:03]

Dagmar:

psm321: Seriously?

[03:44:04]

psm321:

for certain definitions of wrong of course

[03:44:09]

Dagmar:

lol

[03:44:09]

iamlindoro:

Why do with a simple init script or pcsk what one can do with a totally useless c== program, that's what I always say

[03:44:12]

iamlindoro:

er c++

[03:44:23]

psm321:

Dagmar: the last == mask shouldnt be there imo

[03:44:25]

clever:

i know i could have done it in sh or bash but i wanted something to practice my c++ on

[03:44:43]

Dagmar:

psm321: I usually just test for non-zero myself

[03:44:51]

clever:

the only major problem i had was a typo that turned it into a fork bomb

[03:44:52]

psm321:

thats what makes it so that both of the flags that were specified to the VERBOSE macro are required to show the message

[03:45:06]

psm321:

Dagmar: exactly, testing for non-zero would do what i think is the right thing

[03:45:16]

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[03:45:27]

Dagmar:

Jesus

[03:45:36]

Dagmar:

clever: Have you considered *USING THE -d FLAG*?

[03:45:41]

clever:

after i rebooted it was a simple ulimit to contain the forkbomb

[03:45:58]

Dagmar:

psm321: the blah && mask == mask is a style thing for some people

[03:45:59]

clever:

the -d flag is useless to RESTART the thing when malloc causes it to abort()

[03:46:17]

clever:

i dont want my master backend to explode at 3am and go un noticed for hours

[03:46:25]

Dagmar:

clever: Yes, but you can use a cron job that does ps -C mythbackend to see if it's running

[03:46:44]

psm321:

Dagmar: but its not just style, it changes what it does... so if i have blah && ( 1 || 2 ) == ( 1 || 2 ), that requires both 1 and 2 to be set in blah to be true

[03:46:52]

clever:

and the backend explodes right at the start of the hour mostly, when doing back2back recordings

[03:47:03]

clever:

so when cron kicks in 5mins later, ive missed a large chunk of the show

[03:47:05]

Dagmar:

I mean, you're basically aiming to create a nanny thread that restarts it if it dies, right? That's pretty much what crond exists solely for.

[03:47:22]

clever:

cron cant react the instant the process exits

[03:47:23]

Dagmar:

clever: No, when it kicks in at the top of the next minute.

[03:47:40]

Dagmar:

clever: Then wrap it in a shell script

[03:47:40]

orkid:

lol, crond is for running programs at specific times

[03:47:45]

Dagmar:

You don't have to actually do this *in* C

[03:47:51]

clever:

i know that

[03:47:59]

Dagmar:

orkid: Once every minute works great for monitoring processes tho

[03:48:02]

clever:

but i wanted to play with c++ so i wouldnt get rusty

[03:48:08]

psm321:

Dagmar: whereas blah && (1 || 2) != 0 would work if either 1 or 2 was set in blah

[03:48:20]

psm321:

Dagmar: thats what i was trying to get at, sorry if i was unclear earlier

[03:48:22]

orkid:

you can also do this using a wrapper script

[03:48:40]

clever:

06 00:44:25 < clever> i know i could have done it in sh or bash but i wanted something to practice my c++ on

[03:48:45]

clever:

orkid: i said that allready:P

[03:48:46]

Dagmar:

psm321: One could argue that by doing != 0 you're making an assumption that the stuff on the left is actually a numeric value

[03:48:52]

orkid:

compile it then

[03:49:09]

orkid:

the wrapper script, that is

[03:49:25]

orkid:

it gives the the ability to kill myth without having to change crontab

[03:49:35]

Dagmar:

psm321: I'm sure if you found a *really* geeky professor who does Haskell for laughs, he could probably tell you what realm of pure logic shows that to be a flawed approach as manifested by something really, really edge case

[03:49:42]

psm321:

Dagmar: thats true

[03:49:42]

clever:

yes, i can just kill my c program and myth and it stays dead

[03:49:53]

clever:

without crontab starting things back up in 58 seconds

[03:50:15]

Dagmar:

But frankly, if people's compilers start using *smells* as bits for evaluation, that's they're problem. I use numbers.

[03:50:20]

psm321:

Dagmar: really i was just wondering whether both flags needed to be given as arguments, and you were (i thought) arguing that it was obvious that giving either would work, looking at just the VERBOSE macro

[03:50:22]

Dagmar:

s/they're/their/;

[03:50:32]

psm321:

i may have misinterpretted you earlier though

[03:51:18]

Dagmar:

psm321: Well, *normally* people don't put together systems where you'd be doing anything otehr than generating a message and flagging it to be shown only when *both* of a set of flags are present

[03:51:45]

Dagmar:

It makes for weird sets

[03:52:32]

Dagmar:

I mean, when you set a flag to enable certain types of messages, you're operating based on the idea that you've got to define a generic set that the messages you want have to be within

[03:52:57]

Dagmar:

...because you don't know up front specifically *what* you're going to get.

[03:53:45]

psm321:

ok, thats where i think i misinterpretted you, sorry

[03:53:47]

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[03:53:48]

Dagmar:

On the flip side of that, when you're _generating an actual message_ from within the code, you know _exactly_ what category and type that would be

[03:54:45]

Dagmar:

Having to have TWO flags set to have a particular message appear would as far as I know render at least one of them redundant

[03:55:14]

Dagmar:

At that point I think one would have officially "screwed up" and need to use two classes of flags, like syslog

[03:55:24]

Dagmar:

You've got your priority, and your facility flags.

[03:55:42]

psm321:

which is why i feel the VERBOSE macro is probably doing the wrong thing :) (just looking at the code I was looking at, I think the person calling VERBOSE at that point meant to have it print if either debug flag was set)

[03:55:59]

Dagmar:

...and that basically gives you an x,y to work with, and if you actually need three dimensions to report a generic class of message with, god help you

[03:56:19]

clever:

lol

[03:56:30]

Dagmar:

clever: I've written a *lot* of code

[03:56:49]

clever:

my svn repo is only 188mb

[03:57:07]

Dagmar:

A gig I did back in 97–98ish involved cleaning up a perl script that was *I kid you not* over ten million lines long

[03:57:16]

Dagmar:

...with TWO effing comments.

[03:57:20]

clever:

largest commit was 130mb

[03:57:25]

psm321:

i used to do a lot of work with bits (embedded stuff) back in school which is why this smelled wrong to me

[03:57:32]

clever:

ouch

[03:57:55]

Dagmar:

I had to go through the thing basically combing all the layers of code into neat little rows, so that an API could be documented, collapse out all the redundancies, and make it stable.

[03:58:00]

clever:

ive got some perl scripts made by people who never heard of include

[03:58:09]

clever:

so 60% of the 50 scripts is identical

[03:58:09]

Dagmar:

I killed off about 130 *thousand* lines of it

[03:58:16]

clever:

ouch

[03:58:41]

psm321:

i used to be somewhat of an offender in perl... wrote my own hacky http code before i knew about LWP

[03:58:59]

psm321:

then again i was only in high school (early high school too)

[03:58:59]

Dagmar:

psm321: Yeah I programmed on a C=64 in high school and college and basically, 38K is not enough space to write a damn thing but simple animations

[03:59:17]

Dagmar:

I *had* to learn 6502 assembly just to write stuff worth using

[03:59:25]

psm321:

:)

[03:59:31]

clever:

Dagmar: i still own a pair of c64's and thats what i worked on at home:P

[03:59:35]

clever:

i have a book on 6502 on my bed right beside me

[03:59:40]

Dagmar:

I am as a result still acutely aware of my raw data structures

[03:59:54]

orkid:

lol

[03:59:56]

Dagmar:

clever: It was a lot of fun.

[04:00:03]

clever:

i bet

[04:00:17]

clever:

my dad tryed to argue that it would take pages of code to even print text to the screen

[04:00:22]

Dagmar:

orkid: There's nothing like having *no* memory manager for making you pay attention to what you're doing with your data

[04:00:23]

clever:

i did it in a few lines of assembly

[04:00:35]

Dagmar:

clever: In 6502? Um... Actually no.

[04:00:40]

clever:

the code pretty much poked a single character directly into the video memory

[04:00:42]

Dagmar:

Yeah he was very wrong.

[04:01:09]

clever:

x86 video boards seem to work very similar for pure text mode

[04:01:37]

Dagmar:

Trying to remember here, but I *think* you just stuffed X and Y with the memory location of the message you wanted printed, and then stored the length somewhere else (can't remember if it was A) and call $ffd2

[04:01:55]

clever:

thats just reusing an existing function

[04:01:59]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[04:02:04]

clever:

and the book i have tells me the exact adr of all of those

[04:02:17]

Dagmar:

$FFD2 on the commie is the print-to-screen function

[04:02:25]

clever:

and dad could just argue that the function im calling is pages long:P

[04:02:35]

Dagmar:

It's how you print without having to much about with writing to the video memory

[04:02:57]

Dagmar:

You *could* write a positively chimpy function of your own, and it would only take up about half a printed page.

[04:03:16]

clever:

here it is

[04:03:17]

Dagmar:

Assembly atoms are very small.

[04:03:28]

clever:

the c64 memory map

[04:03:38]

clever:

starting at page zero

[04:04:01]

Dagmar:

...but the $FFD2 function tracked where the cursor was, and would catch color codes and so forth, and a bunch of other magic so you didnt' have to

[04:04:18]

clever:

yeah that would simplify alot of things

[04:04:24]

clever:

and slow some down

[04:04:46]

Dagmar:

Well, you could call the clear screen function yourself directly, or you could print asc(142) IIRC

[04:04:54]

Dagmar:

It's a 1Mhz machine.

[04:05:04]

Dagmar:

"slow some down" == roflcopters

[04:05:34]

Dagmar:

That's *somewhat* to your advantage tho

[04:06:12]

clever:

or you could manualy clear the whole screen in a single tight assemly loop

[04:06:45]

Dagmar:

Basically, you *know* how many clock cycles each instruction takes (which afaik can *change* on x86 code) so you can do things like use up *exactly* 83 clock cycles, change the screen background color, burn up 83 more, change it again, and draw those nifty rasters that everyone liked so much

[04:07:17]

clever:

yeah, the book i have explains how many cycles everything takes

[04:07:39]

clever:

but when you add pipelining on x86, that can get hard to predict

[04:07:48]

clever:

when the c64 reads/writes to a tape drive

[04:07:56]

Dagmar:

Or, like a lot of us were doing, kind of piddle around all the time repeatedly checking where the raster gun was on the screen, and go deal with music stuff during scan lines 0–25, do some colors based on a table from 26–128, set some sprites in new places etc

[04:08:08]

clever:

i beleive its bit banging at the port using carefully timed assemly loops

[04:08:22]

clever:

but when the video card borrows memory every refresh, it makes the cpu wait

[04:08:28]

clever:

video chip i mean:P

[04:08:36]

Dagmar:

Yeah that doesn't happen on a C-64.

[04:08:44]

clever:

so thats why the video chip is disabled and set to a solid color

[04:09:12]

clever:

if you disable the text display, then it wont be pulling the memory out from under the cpu

[04:09:19]

Dagmar:

Actually that's just so it didn't show strange tearing around "the box"

[04:09:39]

clever:

which device was the master of the bus

[04:09:42]

clever:

the vid chip or cpu?

[04:09:54]

Dagmar:

The dark blue box where all the text is, and the light blue area around it are controlled by two different bytes of memory

[04:09:57]

Dagmar:

s/bytes/pieces/;

[04:10:03]

clever:

because if the video chip was delayed, it could screw with the video signal

[04:10:06]

Dagmar:

If you wanted to change them both, you had to do *two* operations.

[04:10:22]

clever:

yes that makes sense

[04:10:26]

Dagmar:

What they're doing there is shutting off the blue box, basically, so they only have to change one background color

[04:10:35]

clever:

yep

[04:10:59]

clever:

but i was thinking that when the video chip scans the 'video ram' to display another frame

[04:11:06]

clever:

it has to hijack the address/data busses

[04:11:10]

Dagmar:

It shares the RAM.

[04:11:14]

clever:

yes its sharing

[04:11:19]

Dagmar:

The C-64 is *not* an x86 CPU.

[04:11:30]

Dagmar:

This is one of the ways it does not behave like one at all

[04:11:40]

clever:

but if 2 things drive the address bus at once, youll short things out

[04:11:40]

Dagmar:

What the video chip does does not impact what the CPU does in any way

[04:12:00]

clever:

how can they share the memory chips without conflict then?

[04:12:16]

Dagmar:

I don't know it works electrically, could be they each take turns on a timer for all I know

[04:12:19]

Dagmar:

1Mhz.

[04:12:23]

Dagmar:

Very slooooow.

[04:12:41]

Dagmar:

This is not high-strung super-fast memory with the constitution of a chihuahua

[04:12:43]

clever:

i'll have to find the curcuit layout

[04:13:41]

clever:

found it

[04:14:07]

Dagmar:

You see anything that looks like a BUS in there? :)

[04:14:15]

clever:

yes

[04:14:31]

clever:

8 data lines and 16 address lines

[04:15:23]

clever:

i see a bank of 10 memory chips that are on the address and data busses

[04:15:27]

clever:

4 bits to each

[04:16:01]

clever:

and the chip select lines are run from a multiplexer off the addr bus

[04:16:28]

clever:

3 bits of the address go in, 8 chip select lines out

[04:17:38]

clever:

found the video chip

[04:17:48]

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[04:18:48]

clever:

Dagmar: it looks like theres a 2nd data+addr bus with a buffer connecting it to the main one

[04:19:16]

Dagmar:

I kinda figured that from that it never seemed to make the image wobble when I did vertical rasters

[04:19:21]

clever:

im thinking the 2 bus's normaly act seperately for shared access

[04:19:45]

Dagmar:

Very *wide* bars and a wholly inappropriate use of the word "raster"

[04:19:51]

clever:

but eventualy the bridge has to close and make 1 device the master of them both

[04:19:55]

strex:

/////window

[04:21:03]

lotia:

folks anyone else experienced a service decline in dvd playback stability and quality with 0.21 compared with 0.20?

[04:21:26]

clever:

Dagmar: i think the bridge is activated by a line on the video chip

[04:21:35]

Dagmar:

clever: Could be

[04:22:12]

Dagmar:

lotia: Nope

[04:22:12]

clever:

which also feeds into the cpu

[04:22:12]

clever:

might be a type of HOLD signal to pause the cpu

[04:22:12]

clever:

so the video gets total control of both bus's

[04:22:35]

Dagmar:

clever: Or considering that it's so bloody slow, it could be doing something cheap and dumb

[04:23:09]

lotia:

Dagmar: do you maintain the myth packages?

[04:23:20]

Dagmar:

lotia: I maintain my *own* myth packages

[04:23:38]

clever:

the pin is labled as p01 but the 0 is a degree mark

[04:23:38]

clever:

lotia: theres usualy a maintainer email in the package:P

[04:24:02]

lotia:

Dagmar: apologies, sort of braindead at the moment, i meant to ask if you maintained the packages for gentoo

[04:24:08]

Dagmar:

Haha no

[04:24:27]

Dagmar:

Such accusations </aghast>

[04:25:14]

clever:

what im guessing is that the 6502 stops running every so often to let the video chip become bus master

[04:25:46]

clever:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MOS6502.svg what is pin 37 doing?

[04:25:51]

psm321:

lotia: the email is in /usr/portage/media-tv/mythtv/metadata.xml

[04:25:51]

Dagmar:

I always figured they basically took turns

[04:26:05]

lotia:

sorry all

[04:26:58]

Dagmar:

clever: Sorry, I *used* to know what that naught symbol meant, but as much as I can remember it *might* have been for the clock beat

[04:27:13]

clever:

theres an in and an out for that

[04:27:34]

clever:

its somehow tied to a similar output on the video

[04:27:37]

Dagmar:

Remember, you're asking me about something I've not seen in um, 20 years or so

[04:27:39]

clever:

which controls the bridge between busses

[04:27:47]

clever:

i'll keep searching

[04:27:55]

Dagmar:

Whatever you've got in front of you probably has more detail than what I can squeeze out of my head

[04:28:10]

clever:

its the schematic for the vic-20

[04:28:20]

clever:

every chip and connection in the main board

[04:29:31]

Dagmar:

...which as you're now seeing, is not _much_

[04:29:57]

clever:

yeah

[04:30:10]

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[04:30:43]

cak:

Hello

[04:31:16]

cak:

could anybody help me ?

[04:32:06]

cak:

anybody awake ?

[04:32:07]

Dagmar:

Only if you can express a question

[04:32:20]

clever:

Dagmar: found a datasheet for a 6502

[04:32:27]

clever:

woot 12mb!

[04:32:46]

Dagmar:

clever: Amusing since that's about 50x more than the machine could hold. Hehe

[04:32:47]

cak:

i cant get my tv to work

[04:32:55]

clever:

yeah

[04:32:57]

Dagmar:

Have you tried making sure it's plugged in?

[04:33:14]

clever:

make shure you dont have a hammer sticking out of the tv either

[04:33:15]

cak:

i have pixelview btb878p+

[04:33:22]

Dagmar:

That's not a television.

[04:33:29]

cak:

ok my tvcard

[04:33:39]

clever:

make shure you dont have a hammer sticking out of the tv card either

[04:33:46]

Dagmar:

So you likely need the bttv driver--what of it?

[04:33:46]

cak:

it works fine with tvtime

[04:33:57]

cak:

really

[04:33:59]

Dagmar:

TVtime only watches TV.

[04:34:02]

cak:

yes

[04:34:23]

cak:

but it mean that bttv driver is loaded and works

[04:34:44]

Dagmar:

So what's the problem?

[04:35:04]

clever:

Dagmar: i see why, the pdf is 0% text, 100% scanned images

[04:35:11]

cak:

in mythtv if i press watch tv nothing happens

[04:35:12]

Dagmar:

heh

[04:35:15]

clever:

the whole thing is slanted somewhat

[04:35:16]

cak:

black screen

[04:35:21]

Dagmar:

Did you configure MythTV correctly?

[04:35:24]

cak:

and goes back

[04:35:39]

cak:

i tryed

[04:36:05]

cak:

how can find out what did i do wrong

[04:36:14]

Dagmar:

Did you follow the *installation* documentation and it knows about the existance of some channels in relation to that tuner?

[04:36:27]

clever:

Dagmar: ahh, its related to the clock signals

[04:36:39]

cak:

dagar, i'm using composite1

[04:37:00]

Dagmar:

So you've configured MythTV for that then?

[04:37:12]

cak:

i hope so

[04:37:39]

cak:

i added capture card

[04:37:45]

Dagmar:

Allow me to suggest you check the logfiles for both the frontend and the backend

[04:37:50]

cak:

and default input is composite1

[04:37:56]

Dagmar:

One of them's saying *something* important

[04:38:09]

cak:

where r they ?

[04:38:14]

cak:

/var/log/???

[04:38:31]

Dagmar:

Hopefully

[04:38:44]

Dagmar:

Who did you get the binaries from?

[04:38:55]

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[04:38:57]

cak:

i'm using knoppmyth

[04:39:10]

clever:

Dagmar: cant track down where this clock signal is from, but theres a chance that the video could be halting the clock

[04:39:11]

Dagmar:

So have you tried asking the guys in #Knoppmyth where their logs are going?

[04:39:23]

cak:

don't c log in /var/log

[04:39:25]

cak:

:)

[04:39:29]

Dagmar:

clever: Or it could be so crude they're just taking turns

[04:40:02]

cak:

Dagmar, where they usually go, o guru?

[04:40:13]

Dagmar:

cak: Into /var/log, like I said.

[04:40:24]

cak:

oh i c it :)

[04:40:33]

clever:

Dagmar: posible, the way its arranged MIGHT be giving the cpu the inverted video clock

[04:40:39]

Dagmar:

Heisenlog() apparently

[04:40:44]

clever:

which means that only 1 of them is ever high at any time

[04:41:24]

Dagmar:

clever: I'm figuring that if there were a way to speed the damn thing up, even a little bit, by disabling the video chip, someone SURELY would have mentioned it at some point

[04:41:46]

Dagmar:

This is why I assumed that their relationship to the RAM was just fixed

[04:41:56]

clever:

http://www.6502.org/documents/datasheets/mos/mos_65ce02_mpu.pdf for the datasheet

[04:42:11]

clever:

good, the site has the video also

[04:42:14]

Dagmar:

Basically, if you wanted to *ever* be able to give the appearance of doing more than one thing at a time on that machine, you *had* to use raster timing

[04:42:19]

clever:

that will explain exactly what its outputing!

[04:42:39]

clever:

http://www.6502.org/documents/datasheets/mos/ . . . 6561_vic.pdf

[04:42:46]

clever:

and i forget what raster even means:P

[04:42:50]

Dagmar:

Probably a color based on whatever was in the accumulator

[04:42:59]

Dagmar:

A raster is one scan line across the screen.

[04:43:45]

Dagmar:

There was a memory location you could look at to see what scan line the video chip was currently on.

[04:44:00]

clever:

yes i remember that, for the light pen posibly

[04:44:06]

Dagmar:

Not quite

[04:44:11]

Dagmar:

Reading a light pen is just a bitch.

[04:44:13]

clever:

nope, the pen is done in the video itself

[04:44:23]

clever:

the pen signal goes directly back to the video chip

[04:44:38]

clever:

and i mean DIRECTLY

[04:44:43]

Dagmar:

They did not work *well* on those

[04:45:04]

Dagmar:

I was too broke to afford one so I built one

[04:45:11]

clever:

it looks like it just feeds the signal back to the chip which produces x/y cords internaly

[04:45:16]

Dagmar:

...and then I got frustrated and borrowed one

[04:45:22]

clever:

i think my dad made one also

[04:45:33]

Dagmar:

clever: Yeah, many things would make them hellishly inaccurate

[04:45:56]

Dagmar:

If you were under the impression that the x-y coordinate you got would be *exact* in any way, forget it

[04:46:06]

clever:

i have a large light pen like gun for the snes system

[04:46:12]

Dagmar:

You'd usually get a coordinate that was as much as 12 pixels off in any direction

[04:46:19]

clever:

no idea how it would work on a lcd tv

[04:46:31]

Dagmar:

It woudlnt' work at all since they don't use rasters

[04:46:46]

clever:

now to read over the 6560 datasheet

[04:46:51]

Dagmar:

There's a little gun shooting electrons, only one stream...

[04:47:12]

Dagmar:

It sprays from left to right over and over working it's way a little farther down each time

[04:47:24]

clever:

yes ive got schematics for tv's also

[04:47:36]

clever:

for a color tv its 3 guns with a carefully aligned grid

[04:48:05]

Dagmar:

That light triggers a photo cell which then prods the video card which then makes a guesstimation about how far that was from the edge of the display, and it knows which scan line it's on

[04:48:22]

clever:

yeah

[04:48:31]

clever:

its all about the timing of the signals

[04:48:56]

Dagmar:

So lots of TVs are *so* spammy-bright with that gun, that unless it's calibrated carefully will trigger when the gun is shooting anywhere near the photo sensor

[04:50:15]

Dagmar:

If you tried to use that data to plot a single-pixel sized stamp, and use it like a paintbrush, what you'd get would be so shaky it would look like a crack addict deeply in withdrawal did it

[04:50:51]

Dagmar:

You may have noticed that the NES lightgun is *not* the most accurate instrument in the world

[04:51:03]

Dagmar:

...but if you're clicking off short burts, it's "close enough"

[04:51:22]

clever:

yeah

[04:51:49]

Dagmar:

This would be part of why that light pen just kinda failed as far as input accessories went

[04:51:56]

clever:

it looks like the pin i see on the video chip is for input or output mode

[04:52:17]

clever:

the video chip has to act like memory when accessing the control registers

[04:52:25]

clever:

which means the addr lines have to become input

[04:52:47]

Dagmar:

...and is part of the reason the unused bits in color memory do weird s**t

[04:52:53]

clever:

but i still dont see where the clock is comming from that controls both chips

[04:53:02]

cak:

Dagmar,

[04:53:03]

cak:

2008-09–05 22:00:51.467 TVRec(65) Error: Problem finding starting channel, setting to default of '3'.

[04:53:03]

cak:

2008-09–05 22:00:51.470 ChannelBase(65) Error: InitializeInputs():

[04:53:03]

cak:

Could not get inputs for the capturecard.

[04:53:03]

cak:

Perhaps you have forgotten to bind video

[04:53:03]

cak:

sources to your card's inputs?

[04:53:04]

cak:

ERROR: no valid capture cards are defined in the database.

[04:53:16]

Dagmar:

cak: it's pretty much telling you what's wrong, man

[04:53:17]

cak:

but i ran mythtv-setup

[04:53:21]

Dagmar:

Go back into mythtv-setup.

[04:53:32]

cak:

and capture card is added

[04:53:32]

Dagmar:

You have to do more than jsut run it. You have to tell it *correct things*

[04:53:35]

clever:

Dagmar: wait, i see a 555!

[04:53:48]

Dagmar:

But you did not associate a video source with the input

[04:53:55]

clever:

nvm that just resets it after power up

[04:53:56]

Dagmar:

clever: I didn't want to spoil how crude it was for you

[04:54:05]

cak:

Dagmar, i'm not sure what video source is

[04:54:17]

Dagmar:

cak: It's the information about the *channels*

[04:54:27]

Dagmar:

The second menu in mythtv-setup iirc

[04:54:43]

cak:

but i don't have channels i'll use only composite

[04:54:46]

Dagmar:

The instructions basically have you going through each of those items, one at a time, in order

[04:54:49]

Dagmar:

You have channels.

[04:54:59]

Dagmar:

You have at least *one*.

[04:55:03]

cak:

:)

[04:55:06]

Dagmar:

It's called "The Composite Video Channel"

[04:55:12]

Dagmar:

Make it up if you have to.

[04:55:18]

cak:

:)

[04:55:19]

Dagmar:

Just *lie* to the machine

[04:55:35]

Dagmar:

If it doesn't think there's a channel then it's got nothing to look for

[04:55:36]

cak:

i'll try

[04:56:09]

Dagmar:

I've got a Panasonic EggCam (which is just a REALLY bad webcam which happens to have a composite output) on my box here.

[04:56:19]

Dagmar:

It's plugged into the composite input on tuner two.

[04:56:44]

Dagmar:

The only way I can look through it is by making up a channel that I numbered "1" and gave the callsign "EGGY" to.

[04:56:53]

Dagmar:

That's a video source.

[04:57:05]

Dagmar:

I bound that to the composite input

[04:57:13]

clever:

Dagmar: theres mention of a 2mhz signal in the datasheet, which could easily be used to give each device turns

[04:57:26]

Dagmar:

...so it sits there at the top of the list of channels and any time I want to turn to it, I just go to that channel.

[04:57:45]

Dagmar:

clever: yes. They take turns I believe it was I said

[04:57:59]

clever:

yeah, im just finding proof that your right this time:P

[04:58:08]

Dagmar:

clever: The machine is staggeringly less complex than anything you're using now

[04:58:08]

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[04:58:21]

Dagmar:

Even my PDA is about 10x more powerful on it's worst days

[04:58:23]

clever:

that gives me an idea, could i tie a usb webcam and its /dev/video0 as channel 1

[04:58:34]

Dagmar:

clever: probably so

[04:58:50]

Dagmar:

I have the eggcam pointed out the windo

[04:59:19]

clever:

my pda is 312 times faster then the c64:P

[04:59:27]

clever:

(312mhz intel pxa270 cpu)

[04:59:44]

clever:

its allmost as fast as my master backend server

[04:59:48]

clever:

in raw mhz alone

[04:59:55]

clever:

but mhz isnt everything

[05:00:00]

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[05:00:04]

Dagmar:

Yeah

[05:00:10]

cak:

Dagmar, what could this mean " card 65 (type composite1) is set to start on channel Please add, wich does not exist

[05:00:17]

Dagmar:

Short instructions meant we could run circles around those crazy people using XT computers

[05:00:25]

clever:

1mhz of c2d is way faster then 1mhz of celeron D

[05:00:29]

larzen:

does anyone here know how to build the ivtv modules in the kenrel 2.6.26.3? I have a hauppauge card – but ivtv is not loading up ;(

[05:00:43]

Dagmar:

cak: In this *one* case, it's usually something you ignore.

[05:01:00]

cak:

Dagmar, thank u :)

[05:01:00]

larzen:

or perhaps there is a howto / example -

[05:01:27]

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[05:02:17]

clever:

Dagmar: cycles/instruction will have a major effect on overall speed

[05:02:21]

clever:

and so will pipelining

[05:02:29]

Dagmar:

larzen: There's something incredibly retarded in the kernel config that's probably throwing you

[05:02:37]

Dagmar:

Specifically...

[05:03:00]

Dagmar:

If you have the option on that says for it to autodetect what tuner modules and so forth are needed under the V4l section, TURN THAT OFF.

[05:03:03]

clever:

i just run 'sudo m-a i-a ivtv' and it 'just works' :P

[05:03:09]

Dagmar:

It does *not*, *ever* seem to get it right.

[05:03:09]

larzen:

Dagmar – i cannot seem to get VIDEO_IVTV=y

[05:03:23]

Dagmar:

It will merrily leave out ivtv

[05:03:44]

larzen:

Dagmar – so there is something I am missing then ?

[05:04:00]

Dagmar:

Once you've turned it off, THEN a whole bunch of new things will appear, letting you explicitly turn *on* ivtv support

[05:04:26]

Dagmar:

Actually it's something that's being hidden from you because you've got something else telling you it's doing you a favor

[05:05:02]

larzen:

Dagmar – any ideas what this could be?

[05:05:16]

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[05:05:22]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[05:05:39]

Dagmar:

Under Video Capture Adapters, if you have " Autoselect pertinent encoders/decoders and other helper chips" on, *turn it off*

[05:05:43]

Dagmar:

A new submenu will appear.

[05:05:58]

Dagmar:

Every time I've tried to let that thing do what it claims, it's left out ivtv support

[05:06:13]

larzen:

yep – just underneath

[05:06:25]

Dagmar:

Just spam that whole section with 'M'

[05:06:44]

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[05:07:09]

Dagmar:

...particularly the Conexant sections

[05:07:18]

larzen:

Dagmar – I dont see any :(

[05:07:24]

clever:

there, ive made a fake video source with channel 1 for the 3com camera

[05:07:49]

Dagmar:

Inside "Encoders/decoders and other helper chips" you should have a whole bunch of options

[05:08:10]

larzen:

i selected them all

[05:08:15]

kormoc:

type /ivtv and read the help on the option, verify all it's requirements are meet

[05:08:19]

** kormoc blinks **

[05:08:21]

kormoc:

don't?

[05:08:24]

Dagmar:

So the word "Conexant" should be showing up on at least two of those

[05:08:30]

larzen:

but I dont see any with the word "Conexant"

[05:08:48]

lotia:

anyone have an experience where after the screen blanks, myth stops responding to remote keypresses, however if you press a mouse button, or a keyboard key, the display "wakes up" if so, any fixes?

[05:08:50]

larzen:

kormoc – apparently its kernel 2.6.26.3+

[05:08:51]

clever:

backend restarted, though i suspect i need to restart the master aswell

[05:08:52]

Dagmar:

"Conexant CX2584x audio/video decoders" and "Conexant CX2341x MPEG encoders"

[05:09:03]

Dagmar:

They're not in alphabetical order

[05:09:16]

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[05:09:42]

larzen:

Dagmar – i think I know the problem I need sound.

[05:09:43]

Dagmar:

If you have turned off v4l1 support, that will also fail

[05:09:44]

Dagmar:

Depends on: HAS_IOMEM && VIDEO_CAPTURE_DRIVERS && VIDEO_V4L1 && VIDEO_V4L2 && PCI && I2C && EXPERIMENTAL && INPUT && HOTPLUG

[05:10:02]

Dagmar:

That makes CONFIG_IVTV "go"

[05:10:21]

Dagmar:

Type "/IVTV" and watch the magicks happen

[05:10:28]

kormoc:

larzen, you need to Enable Video For LInux API 1 (DEPRECATED)

[05:10:36]

Dagmar:

Sekrit kernel cheat codez

[05:10:48]

larzen:

kormoc – its enabled.

[05:10:56]

clever:

now to try and use my webcam as channel 1

[05:11:01]

larzen:

when i type in the word "conexant" it doesnt even come up with options

[05:11:09]

larzen:

just a conexant decoder for sound.

[05:11:23]

larzen:

do i need DVB for linux?

[05:11:24]

Dagmar:

This is because it odesn't search those text fields.

[05:11:34]

Dagmar:

It ONLY searches variable namespace

[05:11:35]

kormoc:

larzen, and you have General Setup/Prompt for development and/or incomplete code/drivers set?

[05:11:59]

larzen:

kormoc – i dont.

[05:12:02]

larzen:

thats my problem !

[05:12:03]

kormoc:

larzen, you need it to

[05:12:14]

kormoc:

slick

[05:12:18]

clever:

Dagmar: yay, the green screen of death!

[05:12:20]

larzen:

perfect! thanks!

[05:12:22]

Dagmar:

Hence the big token named "EXPERIMENTAL"

[05:12:47]

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[05:13:23]

clever:

Dagmar: webcam isnt cooperating

[05:13:43]

Dagmar:

clever: That's because it don't have a driver

[05:13:47]

Dagmar:

it being myth

[05:13:51]

clever:

ah

[05:14:00]

Dagmar:

The eggcam I have plugged into the composite port

[05:14:20]

Dagmar:

Dig a bit in the stuff pertaining to mythzoneminder and you might find a clue

[05:14:29]

clever:

crap

[05:14:33]

clever:

it murdered my usb port

[05:14:37]

Dagmar:

lol

[05:14:53]

clever:

khubd is eating 100% cpu

[05:15:19]

Dagmar:

clever: BTW... You *can* plug the power adapter for the C=64 into the disk port.

[05:15:22]

Dagmar:

*Don't*.

[05:15:27]

clever:

lol

[05:15:40]

** clever compares the pinout on the vic20 **

[05:15:43]

Dagmar:

This device was made before manufacturers learned that's a stupid thing to design

[05:15:53]

clever:

nvm vic20 power is 2 pins

[05:16:06]

Dagmar:

The C-64 used the same 5-pin DIN for disk as well as power

[05:16:08]

clever:

the vic20 guys got it right:P

[05:16:20]

clever:

i was going to see WHAT the power got fed into

[05:16:24]

clever:

to see which chips id blow

[05:16:28]

Dagmar:

Things it sure as hell shouldn't

[05:16:41]

clever:

im guessing the 6522's

[05:16:46]

clever:

which control the keyboard also

[05:16:47]

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[05:16:57]

clever:

so the thing will become pretty useless

[05:17:40]

Dagmar:

All of the magic smoke will escape.

[05:17:59]

clever:

ive released the magic smoke from a mp3 player before

[05:18:02]

clever:

and it still 'worked'

[05:18:21]

clever:

blew one of the chips near the usb interface

[05:18:30]

clever:

half the chip was actualy blown off:P

[05:18:38]

clever:

everything except usb worked

[05:19:06]

clever:

crap, cant reboot the usb core

[05:19:12]

clever:

guess i'll have to reboot the system

[05:19:28]

clever:

wait

[05:19:35]

clever:

killing mythbackend fixed everything

[05:19:40]

Dagmar:

Yay for essentially random IOctls being invoked on an interface that doesn't know what tod o with them

[05:19:41]

roothorick:

speaking of magic smoke

[05:19:43]

clever:

and caused the master to abort()

[05:19:50]

roothorick:

I once saw someone's car amp fail violently

[05:20:17]

roothorick:

something (I'm guessing a capacitor) exploded and blew a hole in their carseat

[05:20:23]

clever:

Dagmar: somehow killing a slave backend, caused my master to implode on itself

[05:20:28]

Dagmar:

Capacitors go BOOM real good

[05:20:54]

Dagmar:

Car batteries are their only rival

[05:21:02]

roothorick:

...I have to try that.

[05:21:19]

Dagmar:

Let someone with no strap holding the battery down and no rubber caps over the terminals hit a speed bump good and hard sometime

[05:21:29]

clever:

ive melted the tip of a screw driver on the cap in a camera flash

[05:21:52]

clever:

just short the thing out carefully

[05:22:14]

Dagmar:

Where I come from, we don't short batteries we'd like to not blow up in our faces.

[05:22:24]

Dagmar:

There's no "carefully" in this picture.

[05:22:34]

clever:

im refering to the CAP in the flash

[05:22:41]

clever:

thats charged to a high voltage

[05:22:47]

Dagmar:

If you don't put a _load_ on a battery when you discharge it, guess what happens

[05:22:52]

clever:

and somehow my tiny c++ prog crashed

[05:23:02]

clever:

it puts all the current at once

[05:23:06]

clever:

which melts things

[05:23:15]

Dagmar:

You get to find out if the internal resistance is enough to generate serious heat, causing the thing to go blooey

[05:23:17]

clever:

probly melting the terminals to the hood

[05:23:54]

clever:

ahhhh

[05:23:57]

clever:

Program terminated with signal 7, Bus error.

[05:24:03]

roothorick:

Dagmar: it's stuff like that I want a blast shield for. I want to see that happen with my own two eyes.

[05:24:08]

clever:

i fudged with the program on nfs while it was running

[05:24:12]

Dagmar:

A blast shield would be a good idea.

[05:24:22]

Dagmar:

As well as an ABC fire extinguisher

[05:24:29]

roothorick:

haha

[05:24:52]

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[05:24:56]

Dagmar:

About 18 years ago with GREAT amusement I watched about eight rednecks fail _utterly_ to jump start a car.

[05:25:17]

Dagmar:

Problem number one, the "live" vehicle was an incredibly old pickup truck.

[05:25:24]

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[05:25:27]

Dagmar:

We're just assuming it was actually a 12V system.

[05:25:30]

clever:

now to figure out why mythbackend murdered my usb port

[05:25:45]

Dagmar:

The other vehicle was a camaro, parked on a slight incline.

[05:25:58]

roothorick:

I think I know where this is going...

[05:26:03]

Dagmar:

The hillbillies connected black to red and red to black.

[05:26:07]

clever:

why not roll it down the hill and let the clutch out?

[05:26:11]

Dagmar:

THEN they started the truck.

[05:26:12]

clever:

o god

[05:26:17]

Dagmar:

*BLAM*

[05:26:30]

Dagmar:

It gets better.

[05:26:40]

clever:

the thing rolled off on its own?

[05:26:46]

Dagmar:

So, obviously at this point *fire* is coming out of the battery in the Camaro

[05:27:03]

clever:

lol

[05:27:20]

clever:

alternator was fed into the batery backwards

[05:27:21]

Dagmar:

One of the geniuses jumps into the camaro, apparently to try to start the engine or god only knows what

[05:27:38]

Dagmar:

Anotehr genius grabs the cables off the flaming battery and *drops them*

[05:27:45]

clever:

short!

[05:27:46]

Dagmar:

They hit the ground, then each other.

[05:27:56]

Dagmar:

*sharp crack* no more truck battery

[05:28:05]

clever:

so now the other batery explodes?

[05:28:35]

Dagmar:

In an attempt to keep the fire from spreading to the engine, the guy IN the camaro gets out, runs up front and with his bare hands pulls the battery out, which looks a bit like a birthday cake for the aged gone horribly wrong, then drops it on the ground.

[05:28:47]

Dagmar:

So now there's a fire under the engine.

[05:28:55]

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[05:28:57]

clever:

lol

[05:29:08]

Dagmar:

Another dimwit gets into the camaro and takes it out of gear, at which it rolls 15 feet into a tree

[05:29:25]

roothorick:

frickin' Darwin

[05:29:28]

clever:

lol!

[05:29:29]

Dagmar:

Truly

[05:29:30]

roothorick:

he's missed what, four times now?

[05:30:05]

Dagmar:

The worst part is I couldn't howl with laughter at it because those guys would have beat my ass

[05:30:07]

Dagmar:

lol

[05:31:26]

Dagmar:

Me and my perfectly working vehicle got the hell out of there

[05:32:47]

larzen:

Dagmar – so I enabled everything but I still dont get an ivtv.ko module built

[05:33:02]

larzen:

i see the other modules for the tuner – but none of this loads when i boot the system

[05:33:06]

Dagmar:

Does CONFIG_IVTV=y appear in your .config?

[05:33:13]

roothorick:

M

[05:33:14]

roothorick:

M!!!

[05:33:36]

larzen:

ah.. wait a sec.. i need to install the modules!

[05:33:44]

Dagmar:

lol

[05:33:45]

roothorick:

*facepalm*

[05:34:04]

roothorick:

if I had a nickel for every time I did that...

[05:34:45]

larzen:

im all dispursed. My toddler son fell down the stairs earlier tonight. His gate latch was not locked all the way and he knocked it loose and went tumbling down.

[05:34:49]

Dagmar:

doh it's CONFIG_VIDEO_IVTV anyway

[05:34:51]

larzen:

dispersed

[05:34:56]

Dagmar:

I keep forgetting they changed it

[05:35:17]

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[05:39:21]

Dagmar:

Child + velcro jumper + deep shag carpet == tranquility

[05:40:56]

Dagmar:

Carpet the walls and you can have wall-mountable children

[05:41:12]

clever:

lol

[05:41:17]

Dagmar:

If I ever have kids I am *so* going to get into trouble

[05:41:34]

clever:

could easily be prevented

[05:41:40]

Dagmar:

People put harnesses and leashes on their kids all the time.

[05:42:02]

Dagmar:

I'm apparently the only person that things a ceiling mount and a proper length of bungee cord would be a good idea

[05:42:30]

Dagmar:

I would play with something like that as an ADULT if I had high enough ceilings

[05:42:56]

clever:

what about a giant hamster wheel to power your tv?

[05:43:05]

clever:

force the kids to not be lazy when watching tv

[05:43:11]

Dagmar:

I can power a small TV with a hand crank

[05:43:13]

clever:

maybe power a whole mythfrontend from the thing:P

[05:43:32]

clever:

stop walking and you win a 120second bootup delay

[05:43:46]

cak:

Dagmar, what did i do wrong now ? 2008-09–05 22:55:16.618 Channel(/dev/video0) Error: GetCurrentChannelNum(1): Failed to find Channel

[05:43:46]

cak:

2008-09–05 22:55:16.619 Channel(/dev/video0)::TuneTo(1): Error, failed to find channel

[05:43:59]

Dagmar:

When I suggest the bungie thing to parents they just give me this _look_

[05:44:17]

clever:

it sounds like a fun idea to me

[05:44:24]

clever:

aslong as you pad the walls

[05:44:31]

clever:

make it look like a mental hospital:P

[05:44:33]

Dagmar:

cak: Not sure. You defined a channel and gave it a number and then associated that video source with the composite input, right?

[05:44:43]

cak:

yep

[05:44:52]

clever:

i did all that with my own fake video source

[05:44:55]

Dagmar:

Did you do this without restarting the backend?

[05:45:06]

clever:

and i restarted my slave&master

[05:45:08]

cak:

i did restart backen

[05:45:10]

cak:

d

[05:45:17]

Dagmar:

Hmm... Should work then as far as I know

[05:45:32]

clever:

2008-09–06 02:11:47.283 Channel(/dev/video0) Error: GetCurrentChannelNum(): Failed to find Channel

[05:45:35]

clever:

2008-09–06 02:11:47.306 Channel(/dev/video0)::TuneTo(): Error, failed to find channel.

[05:45:39]

clever:

2008-09–06 02:11:47.328 TVRec(6) Error: Failed to set channel to 1.

[05:45:41]

clever:

VIDIOCMCAPTURE1: Invalid argument

[05:45:43]

clever:

(last one repeated alot)

[05:46:50]

clever:

tvtime just says 'format unsupported by 3com home connect lite'

[05:47:03]

cak:

Dagmar, I think the problem it's trying to use tuner

[05:47:54]

cak:

TuneTo(1)

[05:49:22]

larzen:

dagar – dumb question – are there hdtv tuners out there that are as well supported as the pvr500 ?

[05:49:34]

larzen:

Dagmar that is

[05:49:47]

larzen:

i would hate to get a device and find out its not supported in linux.

[05:50:00]

clever:

larzen: then check the support on a site ahead of time

[05:50:27]

larzen:

can anyone recommend a well supported hdtv tuner?

[05:51:08]

roothorick:

larzen: Pinnacle PCTV HD, as long as you don't mind messing with firmware a little and are running a really new kernel (2.6.25 or later)

[05:51:33]

roothorick:

I have that card. The only thing not supported is FM tuning.

[05:52:05]

roothorick:

that said, it's a fairly primitive card. It does framegrabs, uncompressed audio, and raw ATSC/QAM/8VSB streams

[05:52:14]

roothorick:

and not much else

[05:53:01]

larzen:

roothorick thats ok. My system is a dual xeon /w 6 gb of ram – it has the processor power

[05:53:22]

larzen:

even if one were to stdio the signal through mencoder real time

[05:53:42]

clever:

mencoder uses ffmpeg internaly

[05:53:47]

roothorick:

don't really know about picture quality. I don't have the hardware to encode at high enough qualities for the card's nuances to make a difference

[05:54:06]

larzen:

so I would need to get two.

[05:54:07]

clever:

just like mythbackend does when using a frame grabber and software encoding

[05:55:17]

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[05:59:52]

fiyawerx:

hey guys, where can I find settings for mythtv's display? I'm runnig it in mythdora, and my desktop loads fine, but when myth starts, its all scraggly lines and I can't read anything and have to terminate the window

[06:06:42]

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[06:06:46]

fiyawerx:

hm, actualy i think its the mythwelcome window that does it, not the actual mythtv window, wonder how i can turn that off

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[06:39:08]

roothorick:

argh. Now I need help. mythfrontend is hanging before trying to do much of, well, anything.

[06:41:42]

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[06:46:29]

roothorick:

where does mythfrontend store its MySQL database location stuff?

[06:46:31]

ColdFyre:

is there a devel changelog anywhere?

[06:47:35]

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[06:49:19]

jblack:

~/.mythtv/mysql.txt

[06:49:40]

roothorick:

figured it out using strace before you said anything

[06:49:44]

roothorick:

now the frontend appears to be working

[06:50:05]

jblack:

so.... "No thanks, because you took too long to answer" ?

[06:50:27]

roothorick:

more like "I got it, but thank you anyway"

[06:51:32]

jblack:

you're welcome

[06:51:57]

roothorick:

awesome... mythbackend is mysteriously dying

[06:52:09]

ColdFyre:

hah

[06:53:40]

roothorick:

perms problem... *grumble*

[06:58:34]

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[07:03:46]

roothorick:

Myth takes a while to change channels, huh?

[07:08:03]

roothorick:

my tuner is apparently "watching live TV" but there's no frontend connected. what?

[07:17:44]

roothorick:

apparently tincd is way too slow for mythtv

[07:17:45]

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[07:23:25]

roothorick:

I'm starting to discovere that my VPN-inside-802.11g is the real bottleneck in this system

[07:23:37]

roothorick:

*discover

[07:24:15]

roothorick:

strange. Things blow up when I try to change channels while watching live TV

[07:29:38]

roothorick:

Yeah. When I'm in live TV, if I try to change the channel, the backend goes on blissfully recording but the frontend goes "Error was encountered while displaying video"

[07:29:44]

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[07:29:52]

roothorick:

and then my tuner is tied up "watching live TV" until I restart the backend

[07:30:46]

purserj:

frontend and backend on same machine?

[07:30:50]

roothorick:

nope

[07:31:09]

roothorick:

frontend and backend are separate machines

[07:31:54]

roothorick:

the route between them is fairly complicated. backend -cat5> hub -cat5> firewall -cat5> wireless AP -802.11g> frontend

[07:32:23]

roothorick:

the video is silky smooth and looks great, but as soon as I try to change channels things blow up

[07:34:35]

roothorick:

well actually, it looks like crap, but it is silky smooth. I think my budget card is struggling a little, or maybe miscalibrated

[07:34:58]

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[07:36:18]

roothorick:

could I get the frontend to read from a locally mounted CIFS share instead of through mythbackend? Might help my CPU usage a little

[07:36:57]

purserj:

umm I think you'll actually be adding to load

[07:37:27]

roothorick:

who knows, it's worth a shot. Besides, it might fix my problem.

[07:37:36]

clever:

nfs mount has extra stuff to invalidate the read ahead cache when the mod stamp changes

[07:38:00]

clever:

which causes even more overhead because the crap it read ahead gets invalidated and has to be read again

[07:38:15]

purserj:

I know that when I mount my recording partition on my laptop I get stuttery playback as opposed to just via the upnp setup

[07:38:49]

clever:

mythtv has its own streaming protocol which has diff overhead compared to nfs

[07:39:16]

clever:

upnp is a whole other group

[07:39:28]

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[07:41:16]

roothorick:

/dev/v4l/* have the correct permissions...

[07:41:38]

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[07:42:07]

clever:

test things with a frontend at the backend first

[07:43:31]

Hausberg:

I am struggling with szap and diseqc, I am using two LNBs on my disk and a Spaun switch in my cellar. I was able to scan the channels for both sats with scan but I can only get lock from one with szap

[07:43:49]

roothorick:

clever: the backend doesn't so much as have a videocard...

[07:43:58]

clever:

lol

[07:44:12]

clever:

then try a frontend that has a less complex network route

[07:44:22]

pufferfish:

anybody have any idea why my mythfrontend wont display anything? mythtv-setup works fine

[07:48:19]

roothorick:

where does mythfrontend keep its logs?

[07:51:39]

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[07:53:42]

justinh:

it doesn't keep anything unless you run it with -l $verboselevel $file – otherwise everything just goes to STDOUT

[07:55:12]

clever:

its -v $verboselevel -l $file

[07:55:20]

justinh:

heh oh yeah

[07:55:25]

clever:

:)

[07:55:38]

** clever waits for things to explode durring the 'make install' **

[07:55:41]

justinh:

well, he'd have found that out if he'd bothered to run mythfrontend with --help

[07:56:46]

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[08:13:28]

Foxamemnon:

Greetings. I recently picked up an SA 4240HDC settop box and want to use the firewire port on it. plugreport shows the device connected, but I can't get firewire_tester to succeed in any mode. This is with Cox cable in southern Arizona. Has anybody else gotten this to work?

[08:14:02]

roothorick:

I've narrowed down my problem to a breakdown in the communication between the backend and the frontend. Apparently the frontend was expecting a connection that the backend never bothered to initiate

[08:14:27]

Foxamemnon:

Checking the STB diagnostics, the 1394 pages show "unavailable" for everything. Could this be correct, even if plugreport still shows something connected?

[08:14:45]

justinh:

ah, see the problem with users interpreting their own logs files is ....

[08:15:18]

roothorick:

what, want me to pastebin it?

[08:16:46]

justinh:

well, nobody is going to be able to take a look if you don't...

[08:23:06]

roothorick:

it's too big to paste...

[08:23:08]

roothorick:

hang on

[08:24:17]

roothorick:

ftp://74.87.96.159/mythfrontend.log

[08:24:39]

justinh:

the backend log is generally more illuminating

[08:24:46]

roothorick:

hang on.

[08:26:37]

justinh:

generally all that's needed is the text since the last backend startup

[08:27:04]

roothorick:

ftp://74.87.96.159/mythbackend.log

[08:27:31]

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[08:28:25]

justinh:

not working here...

[08:29:33]

roothorick:

try now

[08:31:32]

justinh:

audio device /dev/null ??

[08:32:04]

roothorick:

noticed that, discovered I compiled Myth without ALSA support, portage is taking care of that in the background right now. I somehow feel it's not relevant to the current problem.4

[08:32:13]

justinh:

& the frontend log isn't there

[08:32:37]

roothorick:

ftp://74.87.96.159/mythfrontend.log ?

[08:33:07]

justinh:

oh wait it's just not opening in my browser

[08:35:04]

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[08:37:01]

justinh:

hrm. network traffic going missing there by any chance?

[08:37:16]

justinh:

there's really no need for the -v all btw

[08:37:27]

roothorick:

didn't know what to include, heh

[08:37:40]

justinh:

it defaults to 'important' which'd cover the main stuff

[08:40:04]

justinh:

looks like 2008-09–05 22:05:04.493 MythSocket(8673048:23): readStringList: Error, timeout (quick) is some kind of network discontinuity.. I'm guessing you're using a wireless connection

[08:40:13]

roothorick:

yes

[08:40:17]

roothorick:

unavoidable unfortunately

[08:42:00]

justinh:

maybe it's just not up to the job

[08:42:34]

roothorick:

let me try something

[08:42:37]

justinh:

if the frontend & backend lose comms during something like livetv things can get pretty fraught

[08:43:00]

justinh:

the frontend could crash, and if the backend is never told to stop recording...

[08:43:09]

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[08:43:24]

justinh:

or if the network link is severed somehow.. the same can happen

[08:44:15]

justinh:

wireless is sub-optimal for mythtv. all wireless. some people have good experiences with it, lots don't

[08:45:00]

roothorick:

what am I supposed to use? Powerline networking?

[08:46:01]

justinh:

whatever you need to make a reliable connection

[08:46:31]

Foxamemnon:

Well, after a 20 minute phone call with Cox, I seem to have an answer to my question. They aren't "compatible" with the firewire output on their boxes despite the FCC regulation having been in effect for over four years now. Indicating that I would file an FCC complaint didn't seem to matter to them either.

[08:46:34]

roothorick:

I'm trying wired in the otherwise-same configuration

[08:46:49]

Foxamemnon:

I hate the cable company.......

[08:47:02]

justinh:

Foxamemnon: it's only TV. Vote with your feet

[08:47:08]

roothorick:

Foxamemnon: uh. Told you so?

[08:47:15]

roothorick:

wait no I didn't not this time

[08:48:15]

Foxamemnon:

justinh: Would that I could, but it's Cox or nothing in this area (good ol' monopolies) and a lease and placement issues which prevent something like DirecTV/Dish right now. :(

[08:48:33]

justinh:

so you have a choice. put up, or shut up :)

[08:49:06]

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[08:49:08]

Foxamemnon:

Oh, I intend to file that complaint, to be sure. I just don't expect the Earth to move for me. :)

[08:49:08]

justinh:

they've got you right where they want you, and you can either cut off your nose to spite your face (i.e. cancel), or do nothing

[08:49:48]

justinh:

well, if a phone call gets you nowhere try a letter to somebody higher up

[08:50:28]

Foxamemnon:

Yeah, I should probably send off one of those, too. At the very least, it will be "on record" from one more unhappy person.

[08:50:33]

justinh:

damn open source hippies wanting what they're legally entitled to. We'll show em!

[08:50:59]

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[08:51:05]

Foxamemnon:

Yeah! How dare I! I should really learn to not rock the boat. :)

[08:52:06]

roothorick:

TWC is pretty good at that

[08:52:38]

Foxamemnon:

Sticking it to customers or honoring FCC regulations?

[08:52:51]

roothorick:

honoring the FCC firewire stuff

[08:53:00]

roothorick:

btw

[08:53:24]

roothorick:

firewire will NOT work for analog channels. cable boxes don't have encoders. They can't do much more than pass on a signal they're already receiving

[08:53:39]

Foxamemnon:

Here in Tucson, AZ it's only Cox or Comcast and which one you get depends on your location.

[08:54:05]

roothorick:

if you want to record analog channels you _need_ an NTSC compatible capture card. No exceptions.

[08:55:04]

justinh:

the digital TV revolution is making it possible for the providers & content makers to regain control of what/when/where we watch. Well, you guys anyway – nothing like that here yet. As for what we can do about it... absolutely nothing other than just don't take their services. That might not be as bad as it sounds

[08:55:12]

Foxamemnon:

Right, I was trying this with a digital cable subscription and on a variety of channels. I couldn't get past firewire_tester doing anything successfully. Never actually got to the point of recording something. And, after the phone call with Cox, it seems I won't be getting any further.

[08:56:02]

roothorick:

Foxamemnon: you put it on a channel that you know for a fact is available in digital, over the air?

[08:56:09]

justinh:

I've heard of people having to kick up all kinds of stink to get a box with a working firewire output

[08:56:34]

justinh:

find a copy of the FCC document – take it down there & make em read it

[08:57:48]

Foxamemnon:

roothorick: Well, it wasn't over the air, of course, but I'm fairly certain it was a digital channel. And I tried several, all with the same results. I just wasn't getting *any* data packets from the device, other than the really basic info plugreport shows.

[08:58:30]

roothorick:

Foxamemnon: you need to find a channel that you know FOR SURE is broadcasted OTA in digital form.

[08:58:42]

roothorick:

Foxamemnon: and analog versions of said channels don't count.

[08:58:47]

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[09:00:03]

Foxamemnon:

roothorick: Yes, I tried one of those, too. They're in the 700-range channels. i.e. chan 2 is the regular OTA, and 714 is one of the three DT feeds for that local channel. Wasn't getting anything from those either.

[09:01:08]

roothorick:

Foxamemnon: I hate to be brutally honest, but at this point, it may be less work to pick up a few hours at work, buy an ATSC card, and grab those channels that way. Then again, there's nothing noble about that, is there? ;)

[09:01:27]

Foxamemnon:

justinh: Not to worry. If the firewire really is disabled (as the diagnostic pages and Cox seem to indicate), I have no use for this fancy box. I'll be returning it to the store for a plain digital STB with S-video output and I'll be sure to give them a copy of the appropriate rule.

[09:02:22]

roothorick:

justinh: connecting the machine wired produced a significantly different result. Instead of erroring out, I just get booted back to the menu with no error. And the tuner didn't reset either.

[09:02:52]

justinh:

our only pay HD provider in the UK doesn't provide any method other than their own DVR for recording HD content, and there's nothing _legal_ anybody can do about it

[09:03:20]

Foxamemnon:

roothorick: This was more an experiment than anything else, actually. I've already got a PVR-250 card I've used for five years. This is the first time I've had digital cable, though, and thought I might remove one step from the process by taking the incoming MPEG2 data and storing it rather than going digital->analog->digital.

[09:03:24]

justinh:

gotta love the way they automagically expire your recordings after 6 months too

[09:03:52]

clever:

justinh: ive seen some stuff on tivo about things expiring HOURS after being recorded

[09:04:11]

roothorick:

meh. Boxed DVRs are for sheeple.

[09:04:22]

justinh:

I've thought about it. I could totally live without TV

[09:04:40]

justinh:

so could a lot of people. they're just scared

[09:04:59]

clever:

i have 130 things to watch on my mythtv:P

[09:04:59]

roothorick:

I did in fact live by and large without TV for a very long time

[09:05:01]

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[09:05:09]

clever:

i dont have time to sit arround

[09:05:12]

justinh:

it's not even as if they can rely on it for news, cos most of it isn't really news

[09:05:31]

roothorick:

justinh: sadly, that's what sheeple call news

[09:06:07]

Foxamemnon:

justinh: For the past three years I had (for $10/month) only my local channels and, for some reason, Comedy Central. I pretty much watched only PBS and some shows on Com. Central for those three years. I found I didn't miss the 100+ other channels I'd had before that for the most part.

[09:06:36]

justinh:

we cancelled our premium TV package a while back. we miss the Cartoon Network. That's all

[09:06:38]

roothorick:

I get ~80 channels as a prerequisite for having cable internet

[09:06:51]

roothorick:

I don't actually watch them unless I have friends over

[09:07:15]

justinh:

what I always found galling was that on the channels you have to pay for, they still have adverts!

[09:07:21]

Dibblah:

justinh: Are you sure about the 6 month thing?

[09:07:43]

justinh:

Dibblah: pretty sure. my mate ( a Sky + user) told me

[09:07:56]

Dibblah:

... As far as I knew, the issue is that the recordings are decrypted at time of playback using the live card.

[09:08:13]

Foxamemnon:

I go into Daily Show withdrawals too easily. :) I read the paper to get my "real" news and watch the Daily Show so that I can laugh about it a little each day.

[09:08:32]

justinh:

oh yeah it's not so much that they're expired but if the keys have rolled since you recorded the show, you're screwed

[09:08:35]

Dibblah:

Which means every time the secret key changes (about 1 time a month), the recordings are no longer decryptable, therefore are deleted.

[09:09:04]

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[09:09:21]

roothorick:

you know the end is coming when the news is so depressing you need a comedian to tell it to you

[09:09:26]

Dibblah:

But that might have changed.

[09:09:41]

Dibblah:

roothorick: Yeah. A chewey computer is so depressing.

[09:09:42]

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[09:09:43]

clever:

Dibblah: that method could protect the recordings from being cloned off the hdd

[09:09:53]

Foxamemnon:

No, the newspaper tells me the news. The comedian just takes the edge off the more depressing news. :)

[09:10:05]

clever:

they are stored encrypted so you cant just copy from the disk after psysicaly removing it

[09:10:33]

Dibblah:

Possibly. But the entire stream is stored.

[09:10:47]

justinh:

clever: it protects them all sorts of ways. 1, you can't record content then cancel your account & watch them later. 2. you need a valid signal to watch recordings

[09:10:50]

Dibblah:

So it's possible to "play it back" through the card using some nefarious software.

[09:10:51]

clever:

all ~8 channels?

[09:11:16]

Dibblah:

No – just the parts for the recorded channel.

[09:11:17]

clever:

justinh: sounds like its asking the remote end for the key to watch ... every time you try to play it

[09:11:31]

justinh:

yes folks, that means if the weather's bad & it messed your signal up, you can't even watch your recordings :D

[09:11:41]

justinh:

clever: no, it just uses current keys

[09:11:42]

clever:

cancling the account will block that key request

[09:12:11]

clever:

yeah that would suck

[09:12:24]

clever:

normaly if the signal is dead, you would just watch an old recording

[09:12:57]

justinh:

and if there was truly a way to get past whatever it is they do, it'd be all over the internets. Murdoch surely doesn't have that tight a control of everything

[09:13:00]

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[09:13:34]

roothorick:

justinh: well.... you name it, it's on BitTorrent... and it's gotta come from somewhere...

[09:14:00]

clever:

ive found movies on torrent before they even got released

[09:14:02]

Steven_M:

hi all, I have a pvr-150 is normal for the OSD and livetv menu to shake/shimer a bit during live tv payback?

[09:15:14]

justinh:

Steven_M: yes, if you don't use the right deinterlacer

[09:15:31]

roothorick:

PURELY for the sake of troubleshooting: Can I get mythfrontend to play recordings from a locally mounted CIFS share instead of pulling them through mythbackend?

[09:15:33]

clever:

sounds more likely that the video is moving and the osd isnt

[09:15:56]

clever:

roothorick: if you mount it to the same path as on the backend, it will use that automaticaly

[09:16:01]

justinh:

sounds like Bob is being used, more like

[09:16:29]

clever:

yeah my system defaulted to bob after some upgrade and sucked a ton of cpu

[09:16:33]

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[09:16:35]

clever:

i killed bob asap:P

[09:17:06]

** clever hides the still blood stained axe **

[09:17:35]

Steven_M:

justinh: what to you by right deinterlacer, how would I said it?

[09:18:03]

justinh:

wuh wuh?

[09:18:07]

roothorick:

Steven_M: first of all, especially if you're short on CPU, if your graphics hardware has its own means of deinterlacing, USE IT.

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[09:18:54]

clever:

i just shut it off completely and it looks fine

[09:19:32]

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[09:20:25]

Steven_M:

roothorick: where do I set such a thing?

[09:22:40]

roothorick:

Steven_M: well first of all, what *is* your graphics hardware?

[09:23:44]

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[09:23:46]

Steven_M:

roothorick: an ati radion card

[09:23:57]

roothorick:

...ew

[09:24:49]

roothorick:

I highly doubt any of the drivers out there have anything useful

[09:26:56]

Steven_M:

ok

[09:27:36]

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[09:36:25]

sebrock:

is the imdb.pl script really working in 0.21-fixes? I get no info om movies, just length/date/and PG info

[09:38:12]

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[09:42:36]

roothorick:

I'm really, really starting to question whether Myth is worth my while

[09:44:27]

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[09:49:15]

sebrock:

Also anyone else having issues with Internal player segfaulting the frontend random (but very seldom) on some iso/img dvd-images?

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[10:55:50]

justinh:

laga: you around? need a little help if possible.. can't remember what the button definitions for mythstream are

[10:55:58]

laga:

hum

[10:56:08]

laga:

didn't you commit that a few months ago?

[10:56:25]

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[10:57:39]

justinh:

ah nevermind. I found them

[10:58:13]

justinh:

STREAM & SETTINGS_STREAM :)

[10:58:17]

laga:

yay

[10:58:22]

tim1:

what you up to like

[10:58:34]

justinh:

getting glass-wide ready for tarballing

[10:58:43]

laga:

hum. i must never mess with my networking again

[10:59:05]

tim1:

Glass-wide is great thanks

[10:59:26]

justinh:

tim1: pah! the new one puts it in the shade

[11:00:25]

justinh:

loads of improvements all over the place :)

[11:00:34]

tim1:

not possible

[11:00:42]

justinh:

I'm afraid so

[11:01:08]

tim1:

i cant wait

[11:02:18]

tim1:

Any screnshots

[11:02:43]

justinh:

nope

[11:02:52]

tim1:

do you take donations

[11:03:03]

justinh:

I used to

[11:03:05]

tim1:

get me a screen shot and i will donate

[11:03:14]

tim1:

ohh

[11:04:05]

justinh:

seeking praise & kudos isn't where I'm at anymore. that can lead to massive disappointment

[11:04:17]

justinh:

thanks for the offer all the same

[11:04:54]

justinh:

my work isn't for you or anybody else. I do it for me. If you like it, cool. If not, go screw yourself :)

[11:05:42]

tim1:

I think you have over come a huge hurdle. and a cumbersome to your work

[11:05:56]

justinh:

hmmm?

[11:06:38]

tim1:

Well you wont be disappointed any more. and can focus on your work.

[11:07:32]

justinh:

heh. it's taken me a long time to get here. The mistakes I made had to be made

[11:11:46]

tim1:

I think you should let thous who want to donate , donate. It would be nice to know I contributed. To something that I adore.

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[13:17:45]

justinh:

laga: new tarball uploaded. no snafus AFAIK

[13:17:52]

laga:

great

[13:18:04]

justinh:

same location as before :)

[13:18:31]

clever:

damnit

[13:18:37]

clever:

my master crasked 3 hours ago

[13:18:46]

clever:

2008-09–06 07:07:58.963 1045 @ 2008-09–06T04:59:00 in use by transcoder on d600

[13:18:46]

clever:

2008-09–06 07:07:58.963 1045 @ 2008-09–06T04:59:00 in use by transcoder on d600QMutex::lock: Deadlock detected in thread -1398297712

[13:18:48]

clever:

2008-09–06 07:08:59.023 AutoExpire: Adding Programs to 'Do Not Expire' List

[13:18:50]

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[13:18:57]

clever:

and irssi is screwing with my pastes still

[13:19:02]

clever:

2008-09–06 07:07:58.963 1045 @ 2008-09–06T04:59:00 in use by transcoder on d600

[13:19:06]

clever:

QMutex::lock: Deadlock detected in thread -1398297712

[13:19:08]

clever:

2008-09–06 07:08:59.023 AutoExpire: Adding Programs to 'Do Not Expire' List

[13:19:50]

clever:

whatever thread it deadlocking, it didnt print anything on my -v flags

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[13:33:27]

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[13:34:22]

indigo:

hi, does anybody know what driver I need for a Fujitsu-Siemens DVB-T USB-stick (A815, respectively A8150)

[13:35:01]

indigo:

I've tried several ones, I found in media-tv/v4l-dvb-hg [gentoo], but nothing seems to work at all

[13:35:48]

indigo:

it seems, that it is the same as "AVerTV DVB-T Volar X"

[13:36:14]

justinh:

it's more than likely not an issue of simply the driver

[13:36:24]

justinh:

you probably need firmware for it too

[13:36:47]

indigo:

do you know where i get it?

[13:37:34]

justinh:

dvb-usb-dib0700-xx.fw

[13:37:45]

justinh:

found from http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-T_USB_Devices

[13:40:50]

justinh:

when you load a kernel module, look in dmesg to see what it says

[13:41:56]

indigo:

[20556.751247] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_dib0700

[13:42:17]

indigo:

equivalent to all other driver refering to dvb-stuff

[13:43:41]

justinh:

ls dvb_core loaded too?

[13:45:04]

indigo:

yes, as dvb_usb

[13:45:23]

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[13:46:09]

justinh:

are devices nodes created unser /dev/dvb ?

[13:46:14]

justinh:

*under

[13:46:22]

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[13:47:03]

indigo:

no, there is no device node /dev/dvb

[13:47:21]

justinh:

no messages about looking for firmware in syslog ?

[13:48:54]

indigo:

dmesg | grep firmware is empty

[13:49:26]

indigo:

[21722.877958] input: AVerMedia A815O as /class/input/input15

[13:49:26]

indigo:

[21722.999967] input: USB HID v1.01 Keyboard [AVerMedia A815O] on usb-0000:00:13.2–4

[13:49:46]

indigo:

that's what dmesg gives me after plugging the device in

[13:50:07]

justinh:

basically just the remote receiver by the look of it

[13:50:12]

indigo:

my kernel: Linux hugin 2.6.26-tuxonice #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun Aug 24 03:45:02 CEST 2008 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU T2350 @ 1.86GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux

[13:50:34]

justinh:

you said you were on gentoo earlier. do you have dvb support enabled?

[13:51:14]

indigo:

in my kernel config, I think all necessary stuff is activated

[13:52:31]

indigo:

http://nopaste.ch/ef3edb09565353d.html

[13:53:23]

indigo:

and the drivers are from media-tv/v4l-dvb-hg [gentoo package]

[13:54:21]

justinh:

I wouldn't bank on that ebuild being all you need

[13:54:41]

justinh:

if in doubt, make all the dvb options in the kernel config available as modules

[13:55:11]

justinh:

this is just one of the reasons I stopped using gentoo. too much damn hassle for things like this

[13:55:47]

indigo:

but I just see on http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/AVerTV_DVB-T_Volar, that the Volar X DVB-T stick is based on A808, not on A815(0). I'll later have a look on this.

[13:55:50]

justinh:

you can _think_ you set all the right options all you want, but unless you _know_.. you can never be sure ;)

[13:56:40]

indigo:

:) – that's right, but that's on nearly all distributions the fact.

[13:57:01]

indigo:

Bye and thanks for the info.

[13:57:05]

justinh:

most distros save the user having to think too hard :)

[13:57:18]

justinh:

btw #linuxtv is handy for help with dvb stuff

[13:58:19]

justinh:

and you hadn't set "CONFIG_DVB_USB_DIB0700"

[13:58:40]

justinh:

so chances are you don't even need the hg drivers

[13:59:14]

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[14:00:13]

justinh:

lsusb & lspci can lie, which is generally where confusion sets in. also wiki pages which omit useful information about devices don't help. Stuff like what chipset a card uses, that sort of thing. Without that information, it's pure guesswork figuring out which modules to build ;)

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clever:

id just module everything and see what autoloads

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[14:35:40]

foo8ar:

hi, anyone with mac accel experience for the frontend?

[14:50:13]

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[14:52:38]

Rinaldi:

Hi, i've been searching for a dvb-s2 card so I can recieve HD freesat channels in the UK. Anyone have any experience with this? http://www.ebuyer.com/product/140477/show_product_reviews and what channels it is able to recieve?

[14:54:03]

iamlindoro:

You don't need an S2 card to get HD Freesat channels... which is good as myth has no S2 support and the linuxtv API has no official support either

[14:54:41]

iamlindoro:

DVB-S support, now that's the ticket.

[14:57:15]

Rinaldi:

Ah I see, so bbc hd and itv hd broadcast in dvb s? and mythtv supprts that?

[14:57:39]

iamlindoro:

Yes, and yes

[14:57:59]

sebrock:

e

[14:58:01]

iamlindoro:

well, ITVHD support is lacking

[14:58:11]

iamlindoro:

as they broadcast a broken-ass stream

[14:58:22]

iamlindoro:

but people are working on that

[14:59:06]

term:

is anyone else getting 500 server errors with schedulesdirect?

[14:59:21]

Rinaldi:

OK, somewhere I read that when channel 4 gets out of their contract with sky they will do dvb s2, but I suppose I'l take that as it goes. As for ITV it shuld be at least possible then

[14:59:55]

iamlindoro:

Rinaldi, when/if that happens there ought to be an actual linux S2 API and some firm driver support, but until then, an S2 card is a bad buy

[15:00:16]

iamlindoro:

term, the 500 errors are normal, assuming you still end up with listings at the end of the mythfilldatabase run

[15:01:03]

term:

iamlindoro: I'm not :(

[15:01:17]

clever:

term: the 500 should be followed by a 200

[15:01:29]

term:

clever: I'm getting 401 followed by 500.

[15:01:36]

Rinaldi:

iamlindoro, so any specific one you would recommend that works well with mythtv?

[15:01:47]

clever:

no idea then

[15:01:48]

iamlindoro:

Rinaldi, the WinTV Nove-S-Plus works well

[15:01:57]

term:

doh

[15:01:59]

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[15:01:59]

iamlindoro:

er Nova-S-Plus

[15:02:03]

iamlindoro:

term, works here

[15:02:28]

term:

hmm

[15:02:30]

Rinaldi:

nice, only £45 on ebuyer

[15:02:31]

Rinaldi:

thanks

[15:02:33]

term:

thanks for checking

[15:02:34]

iamlindoro:

np

[15:03:08]

term:

weird.

[15:03:32]

term:

I'll try again later I guess.

[15:06:05]

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[15:07:30]

term:

lineup got deleted.

[15:07:34]

term:

weird.

[15:07:37]

term:

thanks!

[15:07:39]

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[15:11:22]

adante:

hi

[15:11:45]

adante:

mythtv is enable to scan one of my channels — scan from dvb-apps can scan it fine, and mplayer can play it

[15:12:52]

adante:

i've tried putting the freq in for a full scan tuned but no luck

[15:13:05]

adante:

also tried importing the channels.conf from dvb-apps scan but it can't recognise the file format

[15:13:24]

adante:

how else can i get this channel in?

[15:20:25]

foo8ar:

do you have other channels in the system?

[15:22:58]

adante:

yeah

[15:23:01]

adante:

other channels scan fine

[15:23:13]

foo8ar:

is it on a new mux?

[15:23:39]

adante:

new as in... the station is just created? or new to mythtv?

[15:23:54]

adante:

old station, new to mythtv anyway

[15:24:10]

adante:

all the channels are basically new, i purged the channels and am trying to re-scan

[15:24:12]

foo8ar:

dvb channels comes grouped within chn

[15:24:16]

foo8ar:

channels

[15:24:51]

adante:

yep, this is it's own mux

[15:24:52]

foo8ar:

depending on transmission or quality 1–6 channels per mux (or mayby even more)

[15:25:03]

adante:

i can't find anything on this mux

[15:25:05]

adante:

in mythtv

[15:25:10]

foo8ar:

anything else on that mux?

[15:27:43]

adante:

some other channels and radio stations – i can't scan anything on this mux

[15:28:00]

adante:

i should probably have said "mythtv is unable to scan one of my muxes" above

[15:30:06]

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[15:46:41]

Rinaldi:

iamlindoro, http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143331 I tried searching for this but I can't find conclusively if it works in mythtv. Is there anywhere I can search to make sure?

[15:47:17]

iamlindoro:

Rinaldi, The DVB wiki at linuxtv.org

[15:47:18]

directhex:

does it work in linux?

[15:47:50]

** iamlindoro sort of wonders why people ask for a card that works well then go dig up some random knock off white box card anyway **

[15:49:10]

Rinaldi:

not like that, just seeing if it was going to be worth the extra money if they work just as well, but clearly not as there are no linux drivers for it

[15:59:52]

Hausberg:

does anyone have experience using CAM module?

[16:00:02]

Hausberg:

I bought myself TT S-1500 + CI

[16:00:03]

laga:

Hausberg: yup

[16:00:15]

Hausberg:

I am having a conax card with adapter for it

[16:00:28]

Hausberg:

now I can watch Astra quite ok (freetv)

[16:00:45]

Hausberg:

but when I insert my card I can not watch anything anymore

[16:01:04]

Hausberg:

not even the channels from Thor where I need this card

[16:01:44]

Hausberg:

szap locks ok though

[16:01:45]

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[16:02:02]

foo8ar:

anything in your logfiles?

[16:02:50]

forrestv_:

mythmusic can't import in the background or import multiple cds at the same time?

[16:12:21]

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[16:42:17]

Hausberg:

is there some program or service I need to start for the cam or modprobe something – I don't think so since I get a message in dmesg that the card was loaded succesfully if I insert it into my CI

[16:42:35]

adante:

hm

[16:43:31]

adante:

i'm getting some bizarre behaviour where remote input is making video playback choppy

[16:43:32]

sebrock:

uhu suddenly I get a grub error #18 saying my disk cylinder exceeds BIOS... rebooting and it works...

[16:43:38]

sebrock:

wtf!

[16:44:33]

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[16:44:48]

laga:

Hausberg: you can use gnutv to talk to your cam

[16:48:55]

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[16:51:19]

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[16:51:24]

Hausberg:

laga gnutv? what's that?

[16:53:06]

laga:

Hausberg: some app in the dvb-apps package

[16:56:02]

Hausberg:

laga, can not find it in ubuntu packages, I'll have to google abit

[16:56:57]

laga:

you will have to build it from source

[16:57:03]

laga:

which you can get from linuxtv.org

[17:00:58]

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[17:04:34]

MacCyber:

mpeg/pespacket.cpp:160: error: 'av_crc04C11DB7' was not declared in this scope

[17:04:52]

MacCyber:

mpeg/pespacket.cpp:160: error: 'av_crc' was not declared in this scope

[17:05:35]

MacCyber:

have tried to remove /usr/include/libavcodec/avcodec.h

[17:05:40]

MacCyber:

but didn't help

[17:05:45]

iamlindoro:

you need to move your libavcodec/format/utils/etc out of your lib dir

[17:05:47]

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[17:05:50]

iamlindoro:

not just the one file, the whole dirs

[17:06:03]

laga:

huh?

[17:06:16]

iamlindoro:

laga, The existing ffmpeg ones, not the myth ones

[17:06:24]

laga:

ah.

[17:06:39]

MacCyber:

ok, i'll try. thanks.

[17:07:07]

iamlindoro:

MacCyber, You can move them back when you've finished compiling, btw

[17:08:15]

dtolj:

Hi, I build the cx18 ivtv driver and loaded the necessary firmware, dmesg says that everything was loaded fine but cx18 breaks my nvidia driver and I am unable to load my desktop. On startx it says Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device.

[17:08:38]

iamlindoro:

dtolj, #linuxtv

[17:08:49]

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[17:08:51]

iamlindoro:

It's unlikely that that driver broke nvidia, though

[17:09:02]

iamlindoro:

more likely you compiled or upgraded kernel and it breaks as usual

[17:09:11]

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[17:09:11]

dtolj:

iamlindoro: as soon as I unload cx18 my X works again

[17:09:23]

iamlindoro:

ah well, still not a myth thing, #linuxtv is what you want

[17:09:31]

dtolj:

iamlindoro: thanks

[17:09:43]

iamlindoro:

np

[17:12:13]

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[17:30:10]

Gimpy:

hi all, don't i need ivtv with myth tv? i have my video card in make.conf (my tuner card is hauppaug pver-150)

[17:32:14]

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[17:34:02]

xevious:

i'm using KDE 3.5.9 (with compiz, unsure of which version) running on a 1080p projection hdtv. firefox can go fullscreen no problem, but mythtv frontend runs within bounds of my kde panels

[17:34:11]

xevious:

any tips on getting mythtv to go fullscreen?

[17:35:23]

skerit:

Could anyone tell me what dependencies are needed to compile the mythplugins on the latest SVN?

[17:36:18]

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[17:39:07]

xevious:

and i don't believe it's actually going full screen with the panels on top of it, because if i use the screen size setting wizard it shows a resolution considerably smaller than 1920x1080 and the arrows will only scroll to the panels, not to the edge of the screen

[17:40:08]

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[17:40:12]

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[17:41:19]

Hausberg:

laga, I got gnutv now

[17:41:40]

Hausberg:

and it seems to be able to discuss with my conax somewhat...

[17:41:53]

Hausberg:

at least gnutv -cammenu brings up some menu

[17:48:35]

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[17:48:53]

stoth:

hi

[17:49:25]

stoth:

in the process of wiring my myth frontend to my tv and av receiver, I had a quick question.

[17:49:33]

savageone:

howdie folks

[17:50:01]

savageone:

so I've got a mythtv box, using mythbuntu, and the volume control doesn't work for live tv or for the music player

[17:50:16]

stoth:

doesn't work at all?

[17:50:18]

savageone:

it's ben this way for a while, it works fine when playing my normal media files, but not for the tv. any ideas?

[17:50:22]

savageone:

no

[17:50:25]

stoth:

hmm.

[17:50:29]

savageone:

I'm not using it to communicate to an outside amp

[17:50:39]

stoth:

mine wouldn't go any louder, but it wlays went quieter

[17:50:49]

savageone:

I just use the regular old sound output

[17:50:50]

stoth:

(mixer config issues + mythtv sound config issue)

[17:50:58]

savageone:

okay

[17:51:06]

savageone:

I do have a sb audigy card in there that isn't working right

[17:51:15]

savageone:

so I still have it in there but not plugged in

[17:51:22]

savageone:

I wonder if the live tv is trying to use it instead of the onboard

[17:51:38]

savageone:

I've heard the sound control on the music player thing from a lot of people though so I wonder if that's just how it is

[17:51:42]

savageone:

seems pretty silly though

[17:51:50]

stoth:

remove it and try again.

[17:52:01]

savageone:

that's what I'll do

[17:52:14]

savageone:

just wanted to check in in case someone said "yeah that's a common problem it's being worked on"

[17:52:21]

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[17:56:34]

stoth:

is intel HD audio basically digital audio out?

[17:57:02]

Dagmar:

Nope.

[17:58:02]

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[17:58:05]

directhex:

no.

[17:58:16]

directhex:

it's like the old AC97, but has better capabilities

[17:58:17]

savageone:

just really good analog

[17:58:27]

stoth:

What's the black connector for, any ideas?

[17:58:53]

Dagmar:

...with a side order of "randomly assigned output ports" to keep things interesting

[17:58:55]

stoth:

specifically, I'm talking about capabilities of the ich7

[17:59:01]

clever:

00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 12)

[17:59:17]

Dagmar:

Check your manual.

[17:59:20]

clever:

Dagmar: i finaly got the portscan on my dsl modem done, its got telnet

[17:59:32]

clever:

i can see intesting things like the signal level in db

[17:59:34]

stoth:

I have, it's a bullshit dell pc.

[17:59:42]

directhex:

black is usually center/lfe isn't it?

[17:59:56]

directhex:

no wait, that's yellowish

[17:59:58]

directhex:

black is rear

[18:01:02]

stoth:

interesting. So if you want digital out of a PC spdif is basically your only choice these days?

[18:03:04]

sid3windr:

hmm

[18:03:11]

justinh:

basically (still) the best choice

[18:03:12]

sid3windr:

I don't have a black connector ;)

[18:03:24]

sid3windr:

oh, duh

[18:03:32]

sid3windr:

that's because I have a 3-stack instead of a 6-stack ;/

[18:03:38]

clever:

my spdif is a dauther board that eats a pci slot in the case

[18:03:44]

directhex:

s/these days/ever/

[18:03:47]

sid3windr:

but hda is normally randomplugthingy

[18:03:47]

stoth:

reading the intel datasheet for the ich7, it draws a distinction between ac97 and hd audio.

[18:04:03]

forrestv:

stoth, yeah, it suprised me the only way to get digital surround sound is through on-the-fly ac3 compression

[18:04:03]

sid3windr:

as I have rear in the line-in and center/lfe in the mic

[18:04:22]

clever:

sid3windr: i have the same thing with my acer system

[18:04:30]

clever:

the inputs can act as extra outputs

[18:04:30]

directhex:

it's always sp-dif

[18:04:36]

directhex:

that's the data layer.

[18:04:44]

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[18:04:58]

directhex:

spdif is still spif whether you use optical or coaxial

[18:05:08]

clever:

directhex: my main linux system has both optical and RCA for the spdif

[18:05:25]

clever:

but the problem is, can the receiver accept one

[18:05:34]

clever:

i cant feed either to my receiver

[18:05:43]

directhex:

oh, and don't forget hdmi too these days

[18:05:45]

justinh:

get a better receiver then :)

[18:05:53]

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[18:06:04]

stoth:

gonna be a tad annoying if I have to use regular audio RCA into the receiver, when I'm watching 1920x1080 HD

[18:06:05]

clever:

justinh: its got 6 speakers and a 5 disk dvd changer

[18:06:18]

SHADOW__X:

hello everybody

[18:06:20]

directhex:

so don't

[18:06:25]

justinh:

nice :-\

[18:06:37]

clever:

my tv is still SD so its not much of a loss

[18:07:00]

clever:

and the cheap buggers only put 1 speaker in the laptop with hda intel sound

[18:07:02]

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[18:07:18]

justinh:

awww

[18:07:32]

justinh:

like you could ever get decent stereo sound out of a laptop anyway

[18:07:50]

clever:

if i put my chin over the touchpad with the speakers on either side of my head

[18:07:53]

clever:

it sounds great:P

[18:08:07]

SHADOW__X:

hmm

[18:08:11]

justinh:

apart from the fact it totally lacks anything below 500Hz, maybe

[18:08:15]

SHADOW__X:

my laptop has a 1.5inch subwoofer

[18:08:18]

SHADOW__X:

:D

[18:08:29]

J-e-f-f-A_:

justinh: I've got an older 17" Toshiba with Altec Lansing speakers, sounds great. not tons of bass, but very clear and loud, and does have some bass.. ;-)

[18:08:37]

clever:

justinh: yeah, the bass in the receiver/amp is wicked, it knocks stacks of cd's over

[18:09:02]

justinh:

nothing like proper hi-fi, and I suspect that setup is nothing like it :D

[18:09:28]

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[18:09:46]

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[18:09:48]

justinh:

for the price of even the most basic surround setup that has digital inputs, it's not even worth going to the hassle of plugging 6 connectors in

[18:10:05]

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[18:10:22]

clever:

my receiver doesnt have 6 in

[18:10:27]

clever:

only 2 channel inputs

[18:10:37]

justinh:

as for 'fancy' DSPs on soundcards, the only benefit you're likely to get in linux is hardware mixing

[18:10:38]

J-e-f-f-A_:

ps: for you guys in the US looking to buy a decent LCD for your myth system, Staples has two on sale, a 21.6" Acer for $179 (ends today), and a 22" V7 for $199 [I think that's next week]

[18:10:40]

janneg:

stoth: got a satellite signal. but the s2 tree fails to load the cx24116 firmware on the HVR4000 lite card

[18:10:44]

clever:

so i can only get full use of the speakers with a dvd or the addon input module

[18:11:11]

stoth:

janneg: Another user has this working btw. I assume you have the firmware from steventoth.net?

[18:11:16]

Gimpy:

Hi I am getting an error when mythtv emerges mysql that it fails because my computer is not named localhose , is there a way to fix this to use my computer name or do i need to rename my computer to local host

[18:11:44]

** justinh hands Gimpy an ubuntu cd **

[18:11:51]

XLV:

well, asus and auzentech ( or something like that ) got a soundcard that has hdmi in and out, it can output 7.1 lpcm

[18:12:26]

Gimpy:

jstinh, thank but i don't want the ubuntto cd :-p

[18:12:35]

janneg:

stoth: it's working now, sorry

[18:12:44]

XLV:

atm not even 3xxx ati cards do that, or intel g45, nvidia 8200 or ati 780/790g igps, dont know if they have managed it on ati 48xx cards

[18:13:06]

janneg:

and firmware is extracted from the windows driver

[18:13:36]

stoth:

janneg: I've seen a few bullshit firmware floating around, pulled randomly from the driver.

[18:13:56]

stoth:

they include ju8nk and bits of windows code.

[18:14:00]

stoth:

always check steventoth.net

[18:15:06]

savageone:

the only thing that sucks about ubuntu is that I want to sell it to my customers for desktops but there's no legal dvd playback for the us, and my company is big enough that I'mn scared of the cops! hehe. Dell seems to have a deal where they're getting lindvd but the company that makes it won't get back to me or any other pc manufacturer about us buying licenses for it. I'd may have to ditch ubuntu and get a commercial distro, b

[18:15:57]

Dagmar:

You could always install RedHata.

[18:16:04]

savageone:

not a big fan

[18:16:08]

savageone:

I'm a debian guy

[18:16:16]

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[18:16:35]

savageone:

I use centos for a few server things

[18:16:38]

savageone:

trixbox uses it

[18:16:41]

savageone:

but I prefer ubuntu

[18:16:45]

Dagmar:

Then feel free to try to negotiate a licence with the DVD people on behalf of your customers

[18:16:49]

sid3windr:

does redhat have legal dvd playback then?

[18:16:50]

savageone:

and debian in general

[18:16:59]

savageone:

that's what I'm saying, redhat has it?

[18:17:02]

Dagmar:

sid3windr: Thanks to Novell IIRC

[18:17:08]

savageone:

I didn't think they had a desktop type deal

[18:17:14]

sid3windr:

novell is suse isn't it ;)

[18:17:20]

Gimpy:

need help with this error http://rafb.net/p/aWQWzJ86.html

[18:17:27]

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[18:18:07]

Dagmar:

Gimpy: This is not a MythTV problem.

[18:18:16]

Dagmar:

Gimpy: Try in #Gentoo

[18:18:21]

SHADOW__X:

lol

[18:18:52]

Gimpy:

oh, when i looked at it it laoked like mythtv wasn't happy with my host name

[18:19:03]

Dagmar:

Okay then try http://www.rif.org

[18:19:06]

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[18:20:29]

savageone:

side: isan't suse and redhat sort of compatible?

[18:21:01]

janneg:

stoth: firmware from your extract script was identical to my firmware

[18:22:11]

Dagmar:

Gentoo should just log you out and erase the hard disk when you try to set the hostname to localhost.

[18:22:20]

Dagmar:

That would be a more appropriate response

[18:23:02]

janneg:

stoth: the cx24116 is unfortunately not as sensitive as the stv0299

[18:24:24]

janneg:

it gets only the carrier where my usb stv0299 has a lock

[18:24:27]

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[18:25:04]

janneg:

but the signal is not very good

[18:27:41]

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[18:30:32]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, It would certainly be the gentoo style approach ;)

[18:30:40]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, oh noes, all my cflags!

[18:33:58]

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[18:34:07]

maddien:

hi

[18:35:24]

maddien:

I installed mythtv with a skystar2 dvb-s card. Card seems to receive, I don's see any picture nor do I get sound. Kernel modules are loaded. Any idea how to approach?

[18:36:53]

justinh:

testing hardware outside of mythtv is always a good idea

[18:37:06]

justinh:

(with dvb-utils, kaffeine etc)

[18:37:21]

maddien:

justinh: did that: stopped mythtv and used femon... I do receive!

[18:37:56]

justinh:

that isn't an indication of receiving valid audio & video streams though

[18:38:08]

maddien:

justinh: true!

[18:38:10]

justinh:

only that the dvb frontend is locked onto something

[18:38:10]

iamlindoro:

femon == fail

[18:38:15]

iamlindoro:

mplayer == win!

[18:38:23]

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[18:39:23]

bbeattie:

I know ATI cards are frowned upon and have some problems, but if I were to go with an ATI HD series card, which would be the best choice? I need HDMI audio and that's the only way I've been able to find threads of people getting hdmi working under linux.

[18:40:34]

justinh:

binary drivers are the way to go apparently. fingers crossed that Xv is supported for the card you get, in the available driver versions

[18:40:50]

justinh:

pick a card, any card... sacrifice a bunny on the altar of hope...

[18:40:55]

xevious:

is there any way to have mythtv run at my full screen resolution and then scale only gui elements so that video continues to run at my screen's native resolution?

[18:41:26]

iamlindoro:

apparently you can now do HDMI audio with nVidia 96 billion series and driver version 177.apple.echidna.5

[18:41:29]

xevious:

the screen settings wizard seems like it does that, but it actually changes the whole window size

[18:41:46]

iamlindoro:

I say we kick the cunt who wrote the screen wizard in the nuts

[18:41:54]

savageone:

hahaha

[18:42:00]

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[18:42:00]

savageone:

the c word! my fav

[18:42:18]

justinh:

I say go nuclear on the home country of iamlindoro :D

[18:42:29]

iamlindoro:

gimme an hour to get offshore

[18:42:33]

savageone:

hehe

[18:42:36]

xevious:

i'm not a coder, but it seems like separately scaling the GUI elements would be more logical than scaling everything

[18:42:40]

savageone:

in the us you get arrested for joking about that shit rofl

[18:42:45]

justinh:

xevious: so shut up, then

[18:42:47]

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[18:42:55]

xevious:

justinh: go fug yaself

[18:43:05]

xevious:

j/k

[18:43:22]

savageone:

I wonder how linuxmce is doing

[18:43:26]

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[18:43:27]

savageone:

I checked it out a few months back

[18:43:27]

iamlindoro:

best go ask them

[18:43:29]

savageone:

it was ok

[18:43:30]

justinh:

any sentence which begins "I'm not a coder but"... ;)

[18:43:37]

savageone:

but made a lot of claims to stuff it could do that just didn't work right

[18:43:50]

savageone:

I'm not a coder but....I do love to fug

[18:43:57]

justinh:

you know, you can have mythtv seperate the GUI size & video size

[18:43:57]

iamlindoro:

but warning, being in both #linuxmce and #mythtv-users at the same time causes you to be your own grandfather in a cruel trick of physics

[18:44:09]

justinh:

infact by default it DOES

[18:44:22]

justinh:

but it'll always put the video in the same window as the GUI

[18:44:34]

justinh:

because it's the same app doing both. amazing

[18:45:09]

justinh:

the whole idea behind the screen size wizard thingy was to help people whose TVs overscan, make the GUI fit the screen

[18:45:15]

xevious:

yeah. that's my issue

[18:45:37]

justinh:

all that without having to mess with the numbers in the other appearance setup screen, wait for the rescale, see if it fits, rinse & repeat

[18:45:56]

justinh:

and that job, with a few limitations, it does what it's intended to do

[18:46:10]

iamlindoro:

It's a huuuuge feckin' step over the old way

[18:46:16]

xevious:

but it's changing the size of the mythtv window, which is going to cause the video to scale inside that window

[18:46:37]

justinh:

xevious: no. by default mythfrontend runs fullsize at the full res of the desktop

[18:46:50]

justinh:

the video is also output at the full screen size

[18:47:06]

justinh:

if you run mythfrontend in a window, it'll fill that window

[18:49:12]

xevious:

ok, well i havent fully configured my backend yet, so i dont have the ability to test if the video is scaling correctly

[18:49:30]

** iamlindoro wonders why we're talking about it then **

[18:49:43]

justinh:

and, say you scale the GUI to miss some 10% overscan, you can either opt to leave the video fullsize (the default) – or resize it to the GUI size

[18:50:03]

justinh:

by default NO scaling of the video happens other than to output it at the current X resolution

[18:50:10]

xevious:

okeedoke

[18:50:22]

xevious:

sorry to make assumptions

[18:50:45]

xevious:

well the issue i'm having now is that the GUI is scaled to the overscan, but now my kde panels popped up on top of it

[18:50:53]

xevious:

i'm using kde 3.5.9 and compiz-fusion

[18:50:55]

justinh:

hell you can even make mythtv use different _resolutions_ for different modes

[18:51:35]

justinh:

(but they really do assume it's running fullscreen, not windowed AFAIK)

[18:52:03]

justinh:

mythtv & compiz.. hours of fun :)

[18:52:03]

xevious:

i have it set to run fullscreen, not windowed

[18:52:15]

justinh:

I recommend disabling compiz for less hours of fun

[18:52:19]

xevious:

thought so

[18:52:22]

justinh:

s/fun/pain

[18:52:41]

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[18:52:42]

xevious:

:\ i do quite enjoy my zoomy 3d pager

[18:53:09]

xevious:

oh well

[18:53:12]

xevious:

mythtv is cooler

[18:53:32]

stoth:

anyone used digital out on a sound blaster live? The output connector looks shorted than normal.

[18:53:50]

xevious:

i've used digital audio in on an sb live years ago

[18:54:04]

xevious:

worked just dandy for some DAT transfers

[18:54:10]

stoth:

what was the cable like?

[18:54:20]

stoth:

(connrector I mean)

[18:54:21]

justinh:

I had to add digital connections for my SBLive

[18:54:31]

justinh:

only bought the 'value' version :)

[18:54:36]

stoth:

lol

[18:54:37]

justinh:

easy DIY job though

[18:54:38]

xevious:

stoth: rca connector, shielded coax cable

[18:55:00]

stoth:

looks like a regular speak jacker

[18:55:07]

justinh:

modified my MD recorder to do coaxial digital in & out too :D

[18:55:33]

justinh:

anyway.. time to go out & get drunk

[18:55:39]

xevious:

ayyye

[18:55:45]

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[18:55:53]

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[18:58:15]

** stoth chuckles, while reading the sb live manual. Minimum req is a 166MHz pentium. **

[18:59:05]

xevious:

oh man

[18:59:13]

xevious:

sure it wont work with my dx4/133?

[18:59:25]

iamlindoro:

stoth, What has you using the SB Live over, say, any old onboard digital connection?

[18:59:26]

Dagmar:

I've got this

[18:59:32]

** Dagmar shivs xevious **

[18:59:44]

iamlindoro:

clever has a stack of those as a coffee table

[18:59:51]

stoth:

I can't figure out how to get digital out from my myth frontend.

[19:00:07]

stoth:

iamlindoro: i have a ich7 onboard.... not sure if it supports digital out.

[19:00:18]

stoth:

I suspect not.

[19:00:39]

stoth:

else, I have to use analog audio out.... sounds like shit.

[19:00:40]

sid3windr:

my board doesn't have it

[19:00:42]

iamlindoro:

stoth, which particular one? I have one in a system and it has SPDIF headers

[19:00:44]

sid3windr:

but alsamixer says spdif

[19:00:49]

sid3windr:

or at least, it says IEC958

[19:00:51]

sid3windr:

which is spdif

[19:01:03]

stoth:

black connector?

[19:01:04]

sid3windr:

I don't know if I have a header, it's very possible

[19:01:16]

iamlindoro:

stoth, what's your mobo?

[19:01:21]

stoth:

dell POS

[19:01:24]

stoth:

e510

[19:01:24]

iamlindoro:

ahh

[19:01:33]

sid3windr:

ouch ;)

[19:01:45]

stoth:

it's been relagated to be a frontend.... now it's a poorly sounding frontend.

[19:02:46]

stoth:

question: is it pretty typical to have spdif via a minijack to RCA coax?

[19:02:52]

maddien:

justinh: I now tried it with xine, created a channels.conf, first. Since then xine dies after I click on DVB with: "xiTK received SIGSEGV signal, RIP."

[19:02:54]

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[19:02:58]

** sid3windr doubts he hears the difference between analog and spdif **

[19:03:11]

iamlindoro:

stoth, yes, it's fairly common for the Creative boards (and mca stuff) anyway

[19:03:15]

iamlindoro:

er mac

[19:03:23]

stoth:

hmm, maybe I'll try this sb live then.

[19:04:49]

iamlindoro:

could just as easily go with a nice cheap turtle beach or no-name board, though

[19:04:57]

iamlindoro:

as you're using digital and there'll be no difference

[19:05:01]

stoth:

that's the plan, if this doesn't work.

[19:05:09]

iamlindoro:

ah, you've already got it, I see

[19:05:18]

stoth:

any suggestion for a cheap well supported board with coax support?

[19:05:31]

stoth:

(in case this doesn't work reliably)

[19:06:29]

stoth:

depending on what you read the intel ich7 has spdif out.

[19:06:47]

stoth:

(which is what I have on board).... not sure what I'd need to look for under linux to tell.

[19:08:10]

maddien:

bbl

[19:08:20]

iamlindoro:

That looks not half bad: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829111001

[19:08:28]

iamlindoro:

and allegedly good linux support-- cheap, too

[19:09:16]

iamlindoro:

optical seems the be the most prevalent these days-- my new Mobo (same as mkrufky) has both, though

[19:10:46]

xevious:

should i run mythtv-setup as my user, my mythtv user, or root?

[19:10:48]

iamlindoro:

stoth, run alsamixer, and scroll right to look for a mixer named SPDIF or IEC958

[19:11:10]

iamlindoro:

xevious, any user with a valid ~/.mythtv/mysql.txt can run mythtv-setup, it doesn't matter

[19:11:37]

xevious:

by golly i have one

[19:11:41]

iamlindoro:

ideally, for fewest problems you should run it as the user who will be running mythbackend

[19:11:55]

iamlindoro:

but in the end it doesn't really matter

[19:12:03]

xevious:

well i'm using the packages from ubuntu

[19:12:25]

iamlindoro:

then the backend will be run by mythtv, but be default that user's shell is disabled-- you should be able to run it as just about anyone

[19:12:29]

xevious:

so i guess mythbackend is run by mythtv

[19:12:31]

iamlindoro:

your normal user ought to be fine

[19:13:04]

iamlindoro:

as it's not the user that matters, really, but the mysql user, which is set by mysql.txt (and not your login)

[19:14:54]

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[19:18:21]

xevious:

is there a free cable programming guide?

[19:18:29]

savageone:

naw man

[19:18:32]

savageone:

not that i know of

[19:18:35]

iamlindoro:

Not if you're in the US.

[19:18:42]

xevious:

boo hiss

[19:18:44]

savageone:

xml tv is not schedules direct or whatever and you gotta pay

[19:18:47]

savageone:

but it's cheap as hell

[19:18:54]

xevious:

how much?

[19:18:56]

iamlindoro:

Schedules Direct was set up by myth devs for your benefit, better check that attitude

[19:18:58]

iamlindoro:

$20/year

[19:19:13]

iamlindoro:

and they don't profit a single red cent, sooooo

[19:19:17]

savageone:

oh I'm fine w/ the whole thing

[19:19:22]

savageone:

20 a year is no biggie for me hehe

[19:19:26]

savageone:

plus it's reliable

[19:19:33]

savageone:

so that makes it worth it and it's a non-profit

[19:20:59]

xevious:

just sign up at schedulesdirect.org?

[19:21:27]

iamlindoro:

yep

[19:24:20]

savageone:

they give a free trial too if I remember correctly

[19:24:26]

iamlindoro:

7 day, yep

[19:24:48]

savageone:

you can do that and then not renew it and it'll work you just won't have guide data

[19:24:50]

savageone:

which is wack

[19:27:51]

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[19:33:59]

xevious:

3250HD via firewire. anyone using that setup for tuner?

[19:34:33]

xevious:

if so, any tips for someone who's about to get started really setting it up

[19:34:47]

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[19:35:22]

iamlindoro:

Aside from "follow the firewire wiki" and "your set top box doesn't matter?" Nope.\

[19:35:57]

iamlindoro:

Oh, one more tip-- don't expect much, most people get between nothing and locals only. Getting more is a minor miracle.

[19:36:27]

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[19:36:49]

my2keh:

anyone know why my system would said that a dvb address is already in use, when I know it's not?

[19:37:43]

laga:

mythbackend is running

[19:37:43]

xevious:

for that screen size wizard, should the white border of the triangle be showing, or do you want just the dark part showing?

[19:38:53]

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[19:39:15]

iamlindoro:

The furthest extents of the "arrows" indicate the first pixels to be visible. So if you make them exactly touch the outside edge of the screen, while still visible, it will perfectly fill the visible space.

[19:39:35]

laga:

unless your tube is not exactly flat

[19:39:40]

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[19:39:45]

iamlindoro:

^^^ True

[19:39:58]

iamlindoro:

or misaligned

[19:41:22]

xevious:

hmmmmph

[19:41:50]

xevious:

i disabled compiz and my panels are still above mythtv

[19:42:08]

xevious:

setting always on top worked :)

[19:42:44]

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[20:25:41]

xevious:

is myth .21 svn the same as the .21 that's in the ubuntu hardy repositories?

[20:26:13]

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[20:26:18]

laga:

xevious: define "svn"?

[20:26:26]

jadams:

how do I go to the previous channel in mythtv with the default keyboard mappings?

[20:28:07]

xevious:

laga: SVN as in subversion. quote from the MythMusic wiki on mythtv.org, "Gives you the projectM visualisations if you have MythTV 0.21 SVN onwards and ProjectM installed"

[20:28:34]

laga:

xevious: ah. for ubuntu hardy, everything is there

[20:28:42]

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[20:28:46]

laga:

you probably need to install libvisual

[20:29:05]

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[20:34:54]

xevious:

i'm using other libvisual plugins

[20:35:52]

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[20:36:02]

xevious:

oinksie and jess show up in the list of available plugins, but projectm doesnt, even though i have projectm and its libvisual packages installed

[20:36:21]

laga:

eg libvisual-projectm?

[20:37:41]

xevious:

yarrrrr

[20:37:47]

xevious:

<-pie-rat

[20:37:52]

sid3windr:

mmm

[20:37:53]

sid3windr:

pie

[20:38:15]

laga:

ok

[20:38:19]

laga:

that used to work for me

[20:38:30]

xevious:

oh wait

[20:38:34]

xevious:

whoah maybe not

[20:38:51]

xevious:

just noticed that adept threw an error

[20:38:56]

xevious:

i thought it had completed fine

[20:40:08]

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[20:49:53]

xevious:

haha

[20:50:18]

xevious:

the network cable for my mythtv backend had gotten run over by a heavy wheeled table and was no good

[20:52:54]

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[20:56:32]

Huijari:

well, luckily network cable and not antenna cable :)

[21:02:47]

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[21:06:16]

xevious:

ok projectm crashes mythtv. anyone had luck with it?

[21:08:38]

jpabq:

xevious, go back to a previous version. It is just the latest version of projectm with the problem.

[21:09:05]

jpabq:

I think I am running 0.99

[21:10:11]

xevious:

2.0 is almost out tho

[21:11:02]

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[21:11:49]

directhex:

mythmusic crashes

[21:11:51]

directhex:

all the damn time

[21:12:44]

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[21:15:11]

[R]:

so i have one alsa device for normal plaback... and a seperate one for passthrough and when i'm oing passthough, its trying to use both or something... and it really gets scrwed up

[21:15:20]

[R]:

i thought the whole point of the passthrough device was so it dindt use the main device

[21:15:44]

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[21:20:34]

Dagmar:

Yeah and of course this would never be properly documented in the ALSA documentation or the MythTV wiki.

[21:20:53]

Dagmar:

That would just be retarded for someone to have sat down and documented how to use ALSA properly.

[21:21:41]

[R]:

mmm

[21:22:04]

[R]:

what did i do wrong?

[21:22:08]

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[21:23:25]

cesman:

He doesn't know. He is say to read the article on the wiki...

[21:23:35]

[R]:

i've read articles

[21:23:39]

[R]:

its set up properly from what i can tel

[21:23:49]

Dagmar:

Really?

[21:23:58]

Dagmar:

With it malfunctioning you think it's set up properly?

[21:24:04]

[R]:

i'm using the alsa a52 plugin for my default output device

[21:24:08]

tjcarter:

lol

[21:24:09]

[R]:

if i dont use the a52, my passthough works fine

[21:24:32]

[R]:

but like i said... i've read lots of stuff on the wiki

[21:24:36]

tjcarter:

Dagmar: perhaps SHOULD BE is nearer the mark rather than necessarily IS?

[21:25:17]

tjcarter:

okay I'm not awake yet, that doesn't parse

[21:25:32]

** tjcarter wanders off until he is awake **

[21:25:38]

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[21:26:21]

[R]:

Dagmar: i've done what the wiki says

[21:26:28]

[R]:

Dagmar: so unless there is something i'm missing

[21:27:10]

Dagmar:

You have an ALSA problem if your problem is that the a52 plugin makes it malfunction.

[21:27:36]

[R]:

but the a52 isn't set up on the passthough device

[21:27:40]

[R]:

so it shoudln't be using it

[21:27:50]

Dagmar:

ALSA problem.

[21:27:55]

[R]:

how is that an alsa problem?

[21:28:01]

[R]:

oits a myth problem

[21:28:05]

[R]:

for using the wrong device

[21:28:40]

Dagmar:

Really. Myth makes an a52 plugin?

[21:28:46]

Dagmar:

When did that get added?

[21:29:04]

[R]:

myth shoul be using a specia lalsa device i created

[21:29:07]

[R]:

that does NOT use a52

[21:29:12]

[R]:

its not using that device

[21:29:14]

Dagmar:

Well... You have fun with it then.

[21:29:27]

Dagmar:

I'm not going to waste time trying to tell you anything further since you're so certain.

[21:29:46]

[R]:

its not an alsa problem

[21:29:58]

Striker:

the flipside being that you're certain he's wrong?

[21:30:24]

[R]:

well if myth isn'tselecting the correct device

[21:30:34]

Dagmar:

More certain than he is of what *he's* doing.

[21:30:46]

Striker:

it sounds like he knows what he's doing

[21:30:46]

[R]:

unless you want to EXPLAIN something

[21:30:49]

[R]:

other than blame other thigns

[21:30:52]

Dagmar:

Particularly since he let slip that it works fine until he turns on an ALSA plugin.

[21:31:06]

[R]:

meaning myth is using the wrong output

[21:31:08]

Dagmar:

Striker: Then you can help him.

[21:31:17]

Dagmar:

It should be easy for you.

[21:32:28]

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[21:34:17]

Striker:

Dagmar: what's stopping you?

[21:34:59]

Striker:

i dont use passthrough stuff on my systems, so i wont be of much help

[21:35:02]

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[21:35:19]

Dagmar:

It ain't my problem, and I'm not interested in spending a half hour telling someone who's going to argue and probably lie about things to check each individual setting until he figures out which one he set wrong.

[21:35:35]

Dagmar:

...and as an added bonus, I despise dealing with ALSA issues..

[21:35:47]

Dagmar:

Simple enough?

[21:36:06]

Striker:

so, you're just here to badger and antagonize people then?

[21:36:16]

Dagmar:

There's no law that says because i'm here I *must* help everyone, and I already pointed out where the problem is

[21:36:19]

Striker:

if you didn't want to help, why didn't you just not say anything?

[21:36:27]

laga:

sometimes i wish i had ops in this channel

[21:36:30]

Dagmar:

Striker: I *did* help.

[21:36:33]

laga:

i would simply kick *everyone*

[21:36:37]

Dagmar:

He's got an ALSA problem

[21:36:42]

Dagmar:

He wants to insist it's a MythTV problem.

[21:36:43]

laga:

and then sit in there, twiddle my thumbs and be happy

[21:36:54]

Dagmar:

We're not getting *anywhere* based on that so I'm simply not getting involved further.

[21:37:21]

Dagmar:

Why do *you* have a problem with me not wanting to do what I see as pointless?

[21:37:35]

Dagmar:

Where's it written I'm supposed to sit here and argue with someone for an hour until they listen?

[21:37:53]

Dagmar:

...oh AND get called names if I help or if I don't.

[21:38:04]

Dagmar:

Nothing in it for me so frankly, fuck it.

[21:38:09]

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[21:38:46]

Striker:

who called you names?

[21:39:29]

ColdFyre:

what is the advantage of using a backend and frontend on two separate machines?

[21:39:38]

laga:

can you guys please argue somewhere else? it's not exactly on-topic here.

[21:39:49]

Dagmar:

Striket: *You* just accused me of being here to "badger and antagonize people".

[21:39:50]

directhex:

ColdFyre, a server in a closet somewhere, and a frontend in every room?

[21:39:51]

dtol1:

ColdFyre: to offload the database on your frontend

[21:39:54]

[R]:

ColdFyre: so the backend can do processor intensive stuff w/o affecting the video output

[21:39:57]

laga:

Striker: it can get a bit rough in here at times. it's usually not worth pursuing it.

[21:40:00]

Dagmar:

You got any other pithy insights you'd like to throw out there?

[21:40:27]

Dagmar:

I stopped dealing with a problem to avoid it getting uglier, and here you are wanting to jump my s**t for it

[21:40:30]

ColdFyre:

so, i have a quad core machine i can use as a backend and it will greatly reduce the load of my front end?

[21:40:38]

Striker:

Dagmar: I was merely pointing out that you got rather hostile when he asked how it was an alsa problem

[21:40:43]

Dagmar:

ColdFyre: No, not particular.y

[21:40:57]

Dagmar:

Striker: Because I told him it was

[21:41:05]

Dagmar:

Because it's clear that it is.

[21:41:13]

Dagmar:

And I didn't get "hostile". I became adamant about it.

[21:41:34]

Dagmar:

I *can't* help him if he disagrees with what my guess is..

[21:42:14]

Dagmar:

No one here is required to kiss anyone's booboo and make it better.

[21:43:14]

Dagmar:

Now again, if you think his problem is so soluble, you help him or don't fuck with the people who otherwise might. That's not cool.

[21:45:05]

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[21:51:28]

dtol1:

is there a way to make the ui a little better i cant see my mouse cursor it very frustrating and certain buttons don't have a shortcut key assigned to them

[21:52:15]

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[21:52:24]

ColdFyre:

there is an option to show the cursor

[21:52:35]

ColdFyre:

somewhere

[21:52:39]

iamlindoro:

ColdFyre, no. Myth is not intended for mouse use.

[21:52:55]

J-e-f-f-A_:

dtol1: And myth is designed to use with a keyboard or a remote, up/down/left/right enter/esc...

[21:52:57]

ColdFyre:

i know, but you cna show the cursos, although it wont do anything

[21:53:13]

iamlindoro:

well if you "can" then go ahead and enable it there, partner.

[21:53:23]

ColdFyre:

can, too

[21:53:37]

dtol1:

then how do i select the buttons with the keyboard i am trying to Scan for channels

[21:54:09]

iamlindoro:

dtol. The tab, l/r/u/d/ and enter keys, as J-e-f-f-A_ suggested

[21:54:09]

dtol1:

its not highlighting it

[21:54:32]

J-e-f-f-A_ is now known as J-e-f-f-A

[21:55:06]

iamlindoro:

Jeez, IRC is not unlike the -users list this PM

[21:55:09]

dtol1:

hmm could be a disabled button then i think

[21:56:55]

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[21:59:15]

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[22:01:20]

laga:

iamlindoro: hey, so. can we distribute EPG data over a p2p protocol? like bittorrent?

[22:01:34]

iamlindoro:

laga, hahahaha

[22:01:42]

iamlindoro:

sssshhhhhh, they'll think you mean it ;)

[22:01:59]

laga:

we could even have a bittorrent plugin for mythfrontend

[22:02:03]

iamlindoro:

ps, you'd better use myth's internal BT client if you do

[22:02:04]

iamlindoro:

;)

[22:02:05]

laga:

because, like, torrents are legal, do

[22:02:06]

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[22:02:06]

iamlindoro:

heh

[22:02:07]

laga:

yeah.

[22:02:56]

Dagmar:

I volunteer for demonstrating what happens when someone wants to distribute malicious program schedules.

[22:03:07]

Dagmar:

*g*

[22:03:11]

iamlindoro:

Well, thanks, Pandora, now someone will mention how they can use it to get their linuxy torrentses

[22:03:26]

laga:

heh

[22:05:12]

dtol1:

thanks guys

[22:05:36]

iamlindoro:

We're here to help...ish

[22:06:20]

dtol1:

hi

[22:06:41]

** iamlindoro feels like this conversation is happening in backwards time **

[22:07:13]

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[22:08:25]

** laga hates double negations.. even in simble boolean logic **

[22:11:43]

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[22:11:55]

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[22:16:53]

IOU:

For some weird reason, MythTV appears to be crashing when Esc it hit. any ideas ?

[22:17:15]

directhex:

don't hit esc

[22:17:22]

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[22:17:40]

CNLiberal:

i just ran an update last night to MythBuntu 8.04 and now I'm receiving this error in the mythbackend.log file

[22:17:42]

CNLiberal:

"ivtv driver has stopped responding"

[22:17:57]

CNLiberal:

and i'm getting recordings of 0 length

[22:18:02]

CNLiberal:

has anyone else seen this issue?

[22:18:14]

IOU:

directhex, how do you suggest switching to Media from Live TV mode

[22:18:26]

IOU:

without hitting Esc

[22:18:36]

directhex:

telepathy is popular

[22:21:14]

iamlindoro:

Ah, good old LESRC

[22:21:21]

iamlindoro:

Linux Extra Sensory Remote Control

[22:21:35]

cesman:

IOU: start to investigate your logs

[22:21:56]

IOU:

Does anyone else get random Up/Down Key Behaviour ?

[22:21:58]

cesman:

IOU: depending on how you installed, you may find logs in /var/log/mythtv

[22:23:54]

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[22:25:52]

IOU:

doesnt appear to be anything unusual in the logs

[22:26:32]

iamlindoro:

That's like a blind guy telling you the sky looks just as blue as normal today

[22:28:14]

IOU:

last two lines of the log are

[22:28:15]

IOU:

2008-09–07 10:25:25.458 TV: Attempting to change from WatchingLiveTV to None

[22:28:15]

IOU:

2008-09–07 10:25:25.918 TV: Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None

[22:28:22]

IOU:

othing mentioning a crash or anything

[22:28:25]

IOU:

*nothing

[22:28:33]

iamlindoro:

Are you looking at *backend* logs?

[22:28:37]

laga:

so, turns out that my stutterin with h264 HD content was fixed by either turning on the skip loopfilter patch (although i could have sworn i tried that before) or optimizing for my CPU. some 500MHz overclocking might have helped as well ;)

[22:30:52]

IOU:

im getting a few preview errors, but thats it,nothing of when mythfrontend dies

[22:31:52]

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[22:35:49]

** iamlindoro smells "someone didn't do all the steps in mythtv-setup" **

[22:35:56]

iamlindoro:

(or did them wrong)

[22:36:34]

IOU:

i followed the instructions on the mythbuntu website

[22:36:57]

Dagmar:

laga: If you're tyring to say you're playing back HD h.264 with a 500Mhz CPU, we ain't buyin' it

[22:37:14]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, I think he's saying he overclocked 500 above what it was at

[22:37:20]

laga:

Dagmar: sorry. i meant to .. what he said.

[22:37:22]

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[22:37:37]

Dagmar:

Ah okay

[22:37:54]

Dagmar:

Hah the power of WoW shows itself on iTunes

[22:38:28]

PaulWay:

I'm having a bizarre problem I've never met before on my brother's MythTV setup.

[22:39:41]

PaulWay:

Basically it shows some programs once, and then says "the file for this recording can not be found"

[22:41:01]

PaulWay:

Others just get that message.

[22:41:57]

PaulWay:

I've looked on the Wiki and I know there's a troubleshooting page for that very error

[22:41:57]

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[22:42:07]

IOU:

is there a way to safely shut mythfrontend down from the command line. i dont like my power button on my remote using the "kill" command

[22:42:35]

PaulWay:

And we've gone through all of that – redone the entire backend configuration – and still no luck.

[22:43:12]

iamlindoro:

PaulWay, the recording dir isn't on something silly like a windows share or something, is it?

[22:44:32]

laga:

i used to get these odd messages, but it went away. i wish i knew what caused it

[22:45:10]

PaulWay:

iamlindoro: no, it's on a standard LVM LV.

[22:45:12]

IOU:

i think my random up/down behaviour is lirc related

[22:45:25]

PaulWay:

I've checked the storage path and the default points to /store/video

[22:45:30]

PaulWay:

(which is where the files are)

[22:45:59]

iamlindoro:

FWIW (and not necessarily relevant here) LVM is useless for Myth as of the advent of storage groups

[22:46:15]

iamlindoro:

s/useless/unnecessary/

[22:46:28]

PaulWay:

And a test program does have Default.

[22:46:37]

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[22:46:37]

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[22:47:30]

PaulWay:

Well, yes; I'll keep doing things the way I'm used to :-)

[22:48:27]

PaulWay:

Let me see if I can get more debugging information out of the front end...

[22:48:56]

iamlindoro:

This is a random shot in the dark, but I would look at sysclock, hwclock, and the SQL clock, and make sure they all match

[22:49:29]

iamlindoro:

and if he's under or overclocking things, especially the bus, odd things like this tend to pop up

[22:53:06]

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[22:55:58]

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[22:58:08]

PaulWay:

Woah, that's weird – http://rafb.net/p/zYycDn57.html

[22:58:09]

rebel52:

Is Listening To Fort Minor, Styles of Beyond and Celph Titled – Respect 4 Grandma [::] Time: 3:05 [::] 320kbps [::] 44kHz

[22:58:35]

iamlindoro:

That filesystem is *broken*

[22:58:48]

iamlindoro:

you probably possibly have pending drive failure

[22:58:54]

PaulWay:

And yet root can see it perfectly.

[22:59:00]

PaulWay:

So it's not the file system.

[22:59:03]

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[22:59:14]

PaulWay:

And this is a three-week old terabyte drive that we just copied everything across to.

[22:59:41]

iamlindoro:

Those question marks don't show up as a result of permissions issues, hoss

[22:59:58]

iamlindoro:

they show up because drive sad

[23:00:09]

PaulWay:

It would be a permission problem if it was something like SELinux...

[23:00:14]

iamlindoro:

PS, 1 TB HDDs fail like it's going out of style :)

[23:00:26]

Rijstje:

Hey! Is anybody here running the Mac OS X port of mythfrontend? I'm hoping to set up a myth system at some point in the future and would like to know whether MythMusic still doesn't work on Mac.

[23:00:42]

PaulWay:

Sorry, but as root I can do any amount of testing on that drive and it works fine.

[23:00:57]

SHADOW__X:

iamlindoro: do 1tb drives really fail that often

[23:01:03]

iamlindoro:

OK, guess you've got it all figured out, then, have a nice day

[23:01:13]

justdave:

Rijstje: I'm running it on one of my TVs, but I've never actually tried MythMusic on it now that you mention it

[23:01:26]

iamlindoro:

SHADOW__X, only in my experience-- pulled three two week old ones from servers this week and shipped them back

[23:01:38]

SHADOW__X:

hmm what brand

[23:01:47]

PaulWay:

The bathtub curve.

[23:01:50]

Rijstje:

justdave: I can't seem to find any up to date info on mythfrontend for Mac.

[23:02:08]

PaulWay:

My brother's running it here, but we can't test mythmusic at the moment...

[23:02:30]

iamlindoro:

Rijstje, yes, mythmusic works fine on the mac

[23:02:32]

justdave:

I forget the name of the site, it's probably linked from somewhere on the wiki, but there's usually current builds for Mac on that site

[23:02:42]

iamlindoro:

The sniper pad

[23:02:47]

justdave:

yep, that's it

[23:03:00]

iamlindoro:

although it's painfully easy to build yourself with the packager script

[23:03:16]

Rijstje:

iamlindoro: Cool! The sites I saw said that MythMusic isn't supported on Mac.

[23:03:19]

iamlindoro:

literally run one script and walk away for a few hours while it downloads the deps and installs them itself

[23:03:36]

justdave:

a lot of sites that say "XXX doesn't work" are usually out of date. :)

[23:03:58]

justdave:

if there's a posting date, and it's more than a couple months old, don't necessarily trust it :)

[23:04:13]

iamlindoro:

Rijstje, can't imagine when that would have been-- now, if they said "doesn't work with iTunes".... well, that's true. Can't use your DRM music here

[23:04:29]

Rijstje:

iamlindoro: I don't have any DRM music.

[23:04:29]

PaulWay:

justdave: unfortunately some of the sites that say "XXX works" are also out of date.

[23:04:35]

PaulWay:

Just to confuse everyone... :-)

[23:04:40]

justdave:

heh, true, true

[23:04:56]

clever:

iamlindoro: ive had ???'s over nfs when the file was over 2gig

[23:05:13]

clever:

the system refused to provide any status on the file

[23:05:19]

iamlindoro:

clever, Yeah, but when it's local, that ain't permissions ;)

[23:05:20]

Rijstje:

Also does anybody know whether mythtv (specifically on mythbuntu) will support a nova-t 500 "out of the box"?

[23:05:28]

clever:

iamlindoro: yeah

[23:05:31]

iamlindoro:

Rijstje, Yes.

[23:05:44]

clever:

iamlindoro: might be a missing +x on the dir itself

[23:05:49]

Rijstje:

iamlindoro: This is excellent news!

[23:05:50]

iamlindoro:

Rijstje, although you *might* have to provide it with a firmware file, at the most

[23:06:00]

justdave:

I have one TV with Myth running on Mac on it, and that's mostly because it's an older TV and I couldn't get the composite video output on that Mac to work in Linux

[23:06:09]

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[23:06:28]

Rijstje:

iamlindoro: How would I go about getting said firmware. Is it legal and easy to obtain?

[23:06:38]

clever:

iamlindoro: yes, -x on a dir does cause ???? to come up all over the place

[23:06:41]

justdave:

of course, on OS X, I couldn't get anything other than the little white Apple Remote to work with it in the way of remotes (which all worked fine on Linux)

[23:06:48]

justdave:

so you takes your tradeoffs :)

[23:07:04]

clever:

PaulWay: check that the dir is +x

[23:07:05]

iamlindoro:

Rijstje, yes, it's simple when firmware is needed-- I would be surprised if it wasn't included in mythbuntu, though, as it's a very common card

[23:07:16]

justdave:

bluetooth keyboard is as good as a remote, it's just bulky to carry around the room with you :)

[23:07:55]

clever:

justdave: that gives me an idea, bluetooth keyboard emulator in a cellphone

[23:08:13]

clever:

would be simpler then a full blown mythtv remote thru the telnet&bluetooth

[23:08:24]

Rijstje:

iamlindoro: I may be obtaining an old pentium 4 pc from 2003 during 2009 and plan to install a nova-t 500 in it for freeview (UK), maybe upgrade from 512 ram to 1gb, and use it as a backend

[23:08:24]

clever:

and a wider range of uses

[23:08:51]

PaulWay:

clever: at exactly the same time as I just found that out.

[23:09:00]

PaulWay:

What the hell happened there?

[23:09:11]

clever:

PaulWay: ive done a mass chmod on my music dir before

[23:09:19]

clever:

and i wasnt carfull so i set the same perms on everything

[23:09:28]

clever:

mp3's didnt need +x so i did -x to EVERYTHING

[23:09:42]

clever:

suddenly every folder is broken:P

[23:09:59]

justdave:

HD-PVR support on .21-fixes "coming soon" sounds promising.

[23:10:05]

PaulWay:

Heh.

[23:10:11]

PaulWay:

clever: I've done the same...

[23:10:19]

justdave:

I don't actually have a use for it yet, don't have digital cable

[23:10:20]

iamlindoro:

justdave, give up on that, it's not going to happen now

[23:10:27]

iamlindoro:

justdave, it'll be .22

[23:10:32]

clever:

PaulWay: -type f and -type d on find will help greatly

[23:10:36]

PaulWay:

Still having the same "recording can not be found" problem.

[23:10:43]

PaulWay:

clever: yep, worked that out too :-)

[23:10:50]

justdave:

ah, well, if .22 comes faster than .21 did, that won't necessarily be a bad thing. :)

[23:10:53]

iamlindoro:

note the "possible" in the phrase... there are just too many schema and video handling changes needed for it, so it's a lost cause at this point

[23:11:09]

Rijstje:

Anyway, thanks for the help!

[23:11:14]

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[23:11:29]

PaulWay:

iamlindoro: satisfied that it might not be a dead file system? :-)

[23:12:02]

iamlindoro:

Not yet, why don't you bash it with a hammer for a bit and test again

[23:12:05]

justdave:

most of the reason I don't have digital cable yet is lack of myth-compatible tuners for it. Cable company DVRs suck, and there's not much use in paying for something if I can't use it the way I want.

[23:13:00]

iamlindoro:

justdave, It's working fairly solidly at this point (although there's a fair amount of unimplemented functionality)... the mass of people deciding to try it in spite of the warnings about needing to, oh, say, be able to compile things, is becoming painful, though

[23:13:56]

GreyFoxx:

I'm hopping the price on them will go down soon :) then I'll buy a couple :)

[23:14:01]

justdave:

the other reason I'm paying attention to the HD-PVR stuff is because I have a Mac Mini running Myth on one of the TVs, and it's demonstrated that it would make a better back-end than the big HTPC box I have in the living room, if only it had a way to connect a tuner. :) (since there's no PCI slots)

[23:14:52]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx, I've seen them down about $210 now

[23:15:01]

GreyFoxx:

cool

[23:15:07]

justdave:

something I still want to do (haven't quite worked out how, yet, and I'm probably missing something obvious) is to set up the mini as a slave backend and offload all of the transcode and commflag jobs to it

[23:15:26]

iamlindoro:

Sort of looks like the consumer price is going to stabilize right around $200 if I had to guess

[23:15:31]

justdave:

the HTPC gets laggy playing h.264 stuff if there's any jobs running at the same time

[23:15:46]

clever:

justdave: ive done that with all my frontends

[23:16:01]

clever:

justdave: i just run mythbackend on each and changed a setting in mythtv-setup

[23:16:10]

clever:

justdave: the one about running jobs on the originating host

[23:16:11]

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[23:16:13]

iamlindoro:

justdave, you *really* want to test some of the high bitrate samples before you make the plunge... HD-PVR @ 13.5 Mbit material is far harder to play than say, Blu-ray material, even at 40 Mbit

[23:16:14]

** GreyFoxx checks ebay for ay pvr 500's for sale **

[23:17:45]

iamlindoro:

justdave, and even the highest end mini isn't going to have the horsepower to play back the top bitrate HD-PVR recordings, sad to say-- *might* be possible if you buy and install CoreAVC, but even then I've found a 2.4 Ghz C2D to be the minimum

[23:17:59]

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[23:18:46]

justdave:

hmm, yeah, this mini's only 1.8 GHz

[23:18:58]

justdave:

but it is a Core2Duo

[23:19:25]

justdave:

got a 2.6 C2D on order for the HTPC box to replace the Celeron that's in it, supposed to arrive this next week sometime.

[23:19:25]

iamlindoro:

The HD-PVr puts out single-sliced streams-- which means it can't currently use multiple processors in linux

[23:19:38]

iamlindoro:

so it's reliant on the Ghz of a *single* core to play back

[23:19:42]

justdave:

slower than I wanted, but it's the highest-end C2D still compatible with that motherboard

[23:19:47]

Dagmar:

They're adding support for deli-sliced streams in the next firmware.

[23:19:53]

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[23:20:16]

iamlindoro:

in general people are finding that the 2.8–3.0 Ghz C2Duo's can handle it without modification, and experimentation has shown that 2.4s with CoreAVC can pretty much do so

[23:20:44]

justdave:

the mini will play back the 720p stuff at full framerate that the HTPC drops frames on currently

[23:20:57]

justdave:

but yeah, it's probably not high bitrate stuff or something

[23:21:10]

iamlindoro:

justdave, it'll do it because it's *not single sliced*

[23:21:21]

iamlindoro:

no h.264 material is any sort of comparison to the HD-PVR stuff

[23:21:28]

iamlindoro:

they are entirely different animals

[23:22:14]

iamlindoro:

The HD-PVR uses complex encoding options, medium bitrate, and the kicker is the single slices... like I said before-- a machine that is capable of handling 40 Mbit h.264 from Blu-ray is brought to its knees by 13.5 Mbit HD-PVR output

[23:22:31]

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[23:23:29]

justdave:

you could transcode it to something more playable before playing it back, too I assume

[23:23:35]

justdave:

would suck trying to watch it realtime though

[23:24:23]

iamlindoro:

yes, you can transcode, but that brings to mind another current weakness-- no lossless cutting of commercials with the HD-PVR, so removing commercials *requires* a lossy transcode

[23:24:36]

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[23:27:53]

Dagmar:

lohnoes

[23:28:52]

dtol1:

How well does commercial skipping work?

[23:29:20]

cesman:

I'd say very well

[23:29:31]

cesman:

far more hits than misses for me :)

[23:30:55]

dtol1:

cesman: i am just testing it, recorded a show with one commercial in between and with commercial auto skip enabled it not detecting it

[23:31:43]

cesman:

which detection method are you using?

[23:31:47]

cesman:

that is the question

[23:32:19]

dtol1:

let me check

[23:33:24]

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[23:37:40]

iamlindoro:

also, did you give the commflagging job time to finish, and do you have the commflagging job set to run for all new recordings

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iamlindoro:

and, presumably, you are not expecting it to commflag live TV

[23:38:26]

dtol1:

no

[23:40:01]

dtol1:

commflag job is set now but i cant find the different types of detection methods where is the under?

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[23:41:07]

iamlindoro:

TV Settings -> General

[23:41:10]

justdave:

on my kids' cartoons, there's typically 3 commercial breaks in a show, and commflag almost always gets the first and third one and misses the second

[23:41:15]

iamlindoro:

Defaul is all available methods

[23:41:41]

justdave:

I've always just assumed the tv channel was doing something weird with that second break that made it look like part of the show

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[23:50:26]

PaulWay:

OK, on the front end it's saying "Error: File '/store/video/1002_20080906000500.mpg' missing" when on the back end that file is quite definitely there and playable.

[23:53:32]

PaulWay:

It's not possible that the front end would be trying to find the same /store directory on its own hard disk, is it?

[23:54:28]

Striker:

it would unless you told the frontend to stream directly from the backend

[23:54:32]

Striker:

i think

[23:54:41]

Striker:

you can force it to stream

[23:54:51]

PaulWay:

But I thought the frontend normally streamed from the backend.

[23:54:54]

PaulWay:

This changes everything!

[23:55:03]

PaulWay:

Is there a good reason not to stream?

[23:55:11]

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[23:55:27]

Striker:

i'm just saying i'm not sure ;P

[23:55:32]

Striker:

but i know there's an option to force it

[23:55:39]

xevious:

what's the status with 1080p video playback on current CPUs? last i checked they couldnt handle it...

[23:55:41]

PaulWay:

What's that? Where is that set?

[23:56:01]

Striker:

in the frontend somewhere, i dont recall exactly

[23:56:05]

PaulWay:

Let me play around on the front end and find it then :-)

[23:56:20]

Striker:

i'd help you find it, but i'm on the clock atm

[23:56:21]

GreyFoxx:

xev: You are gonna have to be a LOT more specfic :)

[23:58:12]

justdave:

in my experience, recording playback streams from the frontend, but MythVideo wants local file access for playback

[23:58:26]

justdave:

so my mythvideo storage is just a public nfs share so the other frontends can get to it

[23:58:45]

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[23:58:53]

justdave:

er, streams from the *backend* I mean

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