Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, July 17th, 2008, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:11]

wagnerrp:

except its an external box

[00:00:22]

wagnerrp:

personally, i think its better to keep everything internal

[00:00:36]

wagnerrp:

except in the case of the HDPVR, in where there is currently no alternative

[00:00:55]

abqjp:

Steven_M: basically what I was trying to get across, is that 12Mbit is pretty good, even for High Def, but not the top of the scale.

[00:01:46]

abqjp:

I actually prefer external, because that way I am not tied to what kind, or how many, slots I have in my computer.

[00:02:08]

Steven_M:

wagnerrp: abqjp: in terms of analogue to tv would 12Mbit hardware encoding be a bit low?

[00:02:25]

abqjp:

The HDhomerun is great because it attaches via ethernet, which means I can have my HDhomerun in a completely different room from my computer.

[00:02:57]

abqjp:

Steven_M: You are talking "standard def", like 640x480? If so, then 12Mbit would actually be on the high side.

[00:03:52]

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[00:04:10]

Steven_M:

abqjp: ok thanks :)

[00:05:16]

abqjp:

The HDhomerun also has a IR receiver. So, if it is near your TV you can use it to control Myth via whatever remote control you want.

[00:05:35]

wagnerrp:

3–5mbit is probably sufficient for anything up to 1080i, if properly encoded

[00:06:08]

wagnerrp:

but an ongoing software project like x264 is going to yield a FAR more efficient encoder than something wired into a chip

[00:06:18]

abqjp:

wagnerrp: he was asking about MPEG2.

[00:06:52]

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[00:06:59]

wagnerrp:

for mpeg2, 12mbit is overkill for SD, but too low for HD

[00:07:07]

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[00:07:09]

abqjp:

agreed.

[00:07:40]

wagnerrp:

but again, a good software encode is going to put out something of far greater quality than the PVR-x50/500s

[00:07:48]

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[00:08:00]

abqjp:

Gotta start with a good source, though.

[00:08:11]

abqjp:

Garbage in equals garbage out.

[00:08:13]

Steven_M:

abqjp: wagnerrp high def is only just starting in my country, so I've only got analogue for now

[00:08:15]

wagnerrp:

true

[00:08:49]

wagnerrp:

basically, record everything at the highest bitrate its capable of

[00:09:05]

wagnerrp:

then either delete things before you run out of space, or start transcoding

[00:09:30]

wagnerrp:

the mythbox is going to be running idle nearly always

[00:09:50]

abqjp:

I just record everything at high, and buy more disks as needed :-p

[00:10:10]

abqjp:

I wonder how much Seagats new 1.5TB disks are going to sell for?

[00:10:26]

Lexridge:

I have a mythtv backend system with two tuner cards (HVR1600 and PVR150). I generally use the 1600 for recording, while watching another channel on the 150......more

[00:10:32]

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[00:10:51]

Lexridge:

Everything seems to go well, and it seems to record just fine. The MythTV Status web page shows it's recording my program......more

[00:11:05]

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[00:11:07]

Lexridge:

However, when I go to watch the recording later, it simply does not exist! It shows up in the previously recorded list, but the recording is nowhere to be found.

[00:11:40]

wagnerrp:

has this always happened, or is it recent?

[00:11:52]

wagnerrp:

is it all recordings, or just some on some channels?

[00:12:07]

wagnerrp:

is this broadcast tv, or cable?

[00:12:11]

Lexridge:

This is a fairly new system....and I just subscribed to the programming guide, so this has done this all along

[00:12:25]

Lexridge:

broadcast tv

[00:12:36]

Lexridge:

opps, cable that is.

[00:12:50]

kormoc:

Lexridge, does mythweb show the recordings?

[00:13:18]

Lexridge:

the myth status page shows it to be recording......mythweb?

[00:13:27]

wagnerrp:

well you will not have the same lineup for both digital and analog cable

[00:13:37]

Lexridge:

right

[00:13:39]

wagnerrp:

and, the digital cable may be encrypted

[00:13:53]

Steven_M:

wagnerrp: abqjp would you two mind if I pasted a link to a card and you tell me whether it's sounds good?

[00:13:53]

wagnerrp:

you have checked all these channels to see if you actually can record off them?

[00:13:56]

Lexridge:

I am a broadcast tv engineer...I know the basics quite well.

[00:14:18]

Lexridge:

it's just MythTV is a myth to me lol

[00:14:28]

wagnerrp:

so you can manually record off them, you just cant get it to automatically record?

[00:14:32]

Lexridge:

yes, I have checked them

[00:14:53]

Lexridge:

Well, yes and no....I can manually record and it works most of the time.....however, sometimes it does not.

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[00:15:39]

wagnerrp:

well i cant believe your cable provider is cycling encryption on and off

[00:15:48]

abqjp:

Steven_M: the only analog cards I have personal experience with are the Hauppauge PVR-150, PVR-500 and PVR-350. Those are all very good cards.

[00:15:49]

Lexridge:

ie, I just started recording a live program......then hit escape to look at recordings.....the show I am recording does not yet show up...perhaps in this case it has to finish first?

[00:16:35]

Lexridge:

this is no encription

[00:17:12]

wagnerrp:

well ive never actually recorded something i was watching on live tv, so i dont know how that will behave

[00:17:26]

Lexridge:

It seems this may have quite working on manual recording when I added the PVR150 card.

[00:17:42]

Lexridge:

quite=quit

[00:18:25]

wagnerrp:

well i could see the analog tuner on the 1600 fighting with the 150

[00:18:36]

wagnerrp:

but the digital capture should be a completely independent subsystem

[00:19:05]

Lexridge:

I'm not using the digital input at all....sadly, no hi power sources around here yet.

[00:19:20]

wagnerrp:

i thought you were on cable

[00:19:23]

Lexridge:

The digital where I work is broadcasting at a measly 200 watts

[00:19:48]

Lexridge:

I am on cable, but I also have an antennia that I used to try to pick up digital....for a test only.

[00:20:08]

wagnerrp:

oh, so the analog capture on the 1600 has stopped working

[00:20:32]

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[00:20:44]

Lexridge:

well, it's a hardware encoder, and since both tuners work on my client frontend, they are certainly working as far as encoding.

[00:21:01]

Lexridge:

I have over 200GB free on my /video drive as well.

[00:21:06]

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[00:21:26]

wagnerrp:

its only when trying to record...

[00:21:30]

Lexridge:

correct

[00:21:45]

wagnerrp:

well even livetv writes to disk, so it wouldnt be lack of free space causing that

[00:22:00]

Lexridge:

exactly

[00:22:26]

Lexridge:

I have not assigned priorities to the cards yet, but a manual record should not affect this.....right?

[00:22:51]

wagnerrp:

manual record being hitting the record button while watching livetv?

[00:22:58]

Lexridge:

yes

[00:23:20]

wagnerrp:

all that does is put an entry in the database to keep the recording, rather than auto-expire it

[00:23:50]

Lexridge:

that was my first thought, was that the recording was being expired before watching it....but what you just said nullifies that.

[00:25:07]

Lexridge:

okay, I just started a manual record on the 150 card....normally I'm using the 1600 for this. The show will end in 5 minutes

[00:25:40]

wagnerrp:

you should be able to open up the recordings folder and watch it fill the file

[00:26:49]

Lexridge:

yes, I can

[00:27:09]

Lexridge:

filename: 2060_20080716202432.mpg

[00:27:13]

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[00:27:44]

Lexridge:

which is meaningless. Obviously the date and time...but what is the 2060?

[00:27:55]

kormoc:

the channel id

[00:28:05]

wagnerrp:

tuner 2, channel 060

[00:28:05]

kslater:

card id #2, channel 060

[00:28:07]

kormoc:

channel_startdateandtime.format

[00:28:14]

Lexridge:

cool. gotcha

[00:28:14]

kormoc:

yeah

[00:28:36]

Lexridge:

strange.....the mythstatus page lists this card as encoder 4

[00:28:37]

Steven_M:

abqjp: do those use the PAL system? This is the one I was looking at http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_hvr1300.html

[00:29:09]

Lexridge:

the 1600 is listed as encoder 1

[00:29:25]

kormoc:

Lexridge, did you verify you're not using a recorded tv filter?

[00:29:44]

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[00:30:18]

Lexridge:

I've not set any filters up so far. But no, I have not verified this.

[00:30:24]

Steven_M:

abqjp: I want a hybrid because in few years analogue tv will be shutdown

[00:30:54]

Lexridge:

okay, the recording from the pvr150 should have stopped now....the 1600 is apparently recording a movie as well right now.

[00:31:33]

Lexridge:

neither show up under "watch recordings"

[00:32:17]

iamlindoro:

Watch Recordings->Press "m"->Change Group Filter->All Programs

[00:32:31]

kormoc:

Lexridge, press M when you're in the "Watch Recordings" page and verify that your "Group FilteR" and any other filters are set correctly?

[00:32:59]

abqjp:

Steven_M: iamlindoro knows more about those than I do.

[00:33:13]

** iamlindoro hides **

[00:33:24]

Lexridge:

kormoc: that may have it.....there is a shitload more things there now!!!!

[00:34:02]

iamlindoro:

Steven_M: yes, the 1300 is PAL

[00:34:15]

Lexridge:

including the movie I am recording on the 1600 card!! Wow!!!

[00:34:36]

Lexridge:

I did not know about the "M" key. ......I know, RTFM. ;)

[00:36:24]

Lexridge:

That appears to have fixed it.....thanks so much fellas! Gee do I feel like an idiot.

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[00:37:20]

kormoc:

Lexridge, there's default filters somewhere in the settings for the frontend, likely will want to set the defaults to the one you want so you don't have to keep doing that

[00:38:03]

Lexridge:

My mind has been a scramble lately. Where I work we are doing a full HD upgrade for both our CBS and FOX affiliatets, with two sub channels as well.....mind boggling stuff when I've done nothing but analog for the last 26 years!

[00:38:20]

kormoc:

nice

[00:38:32]

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[00:38:38]

Lexridge:

we are also getting a new virtual set (running Linux) and a full HD upgrade in our studio as well.

[00:39:02]

Lexridge:

fun stuff.....I love spending millions of someone else's money. :)

[00:39:47]

Lexridge:

www.wdtv.com is our main station, if your interested.

[00:40:53]

Lexridge:

and I don't even know what the Fox URL is.....perhaps www.wvfx.com will get you there.

[00:41:14]

Lexridge:

yea, that works too. :)

[00:41:42]

Lexridge:

do you know of any other professional broadcasters that are using mythtv?

[00:41:54]

kormoc:

not offhand

[00:42:32]

Lexridge:

I'm seriously trying the spread the word....It certainly blows away my Dish PVR.

[00:43:26]

Lexridge:

now, if only I could control my Dish HD receiver with lirc.....I have waisted two months trying this to no avail. :(

[00:43:45]

wagnerrp:

there is nothing that competes with it for analog

[00:43:59]

Lexridge:

yea, I need to get a HD-PVR soon.

[00:44:07]

wagnerrp:

but trying to get digital content for it can be a struggle

[00:44:14]

wagnerrp:

plus theres the whole setup part

[00:44:27]

Lexridge:

does myth not support HD very well?

[00:44:41]

wagnerrp:

oh, it supports it just fine, if the content is unencrypted

[00:45:08]

Lexridge:

well, since my Dish PVR has component outs, that should not be a problem, correct?>

[00:45:25]

Lexridge:

it's already unencripted at that point.

[00:45:34]

wagnerrp:

with an HDPVR, no, for now

[00:45:51]

wagnerrp:

content providers are trying to get legislation passes that would let them disable those

[00:45:56]

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[00:46:27]

Lexridge:

yea, I'm aware of all of that, but unless the VBI has something in it, the PVR should record anything from the component inputs without issues.

[00:46:50]

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[00:46:51]

wagnerrp:

ive never heard of macrovision being a problem with it

[00:47:00]

Lexridge:

please don't tell me I will need to strip the VB with a FSync

[00:47:17]

Lexridge:

okay

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[00:47:58]

Lexridge:

afaik, CBS is not encripting anything yet, and neither is Fox.

[00:48:10]

Lexridge:

NBC however, is a different story.

[00:48:22]

wagnerrp:

of course if they do disable component, you and a few million other TV viewers will have to spend several hundred on HDCP strippers

[00:48:37]

wagnerrp:

the broadcasters are not, and can not encrypt anything

[00:48:50]

wagnerrp:

but the cable and satellite providers have relatively free reign

[00:49:13]

wagnerrp:

AFAIK, theyre only required to provide the local broadcast channels unencrypted

[00:49:15]

Lexridge:

NBC has been toying with it a bit. I think it has something to do with their relationship with M$

[00:49:35]

Lexridge:

but know that I think about it, that could be MSNBC....

[00:49:51]

GreyFoxx:

That's not encryption. It's the shot down broadcast flag

[00:49:52]

wagnerrp:

well there is the broadcast flag, that requires compliant devices to not save the files

[00:49:55]

GreyFoxx:

and only MCE honours it

[00:50:12]

wagnerrp:

right, if you can view it, you can store it

[00:50:24]

Lexridge:

wagnerrp: yea, that was it.

[00:50:50]

wagnerrp:

so unless they do something like 5c or hdcp, where the software must be authenticated, theres nothing they can do that would affect mythtv

[00:51:04]

Lexridge:

that makes sense.

[00:51:49]

Steven_M:

iamlindoro: so the card here http://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/products/data_hvr1300.html is a good choice?

[00:52:02]

Lexridge:

we had a huge scramble two weeks ago when Galaxy 26 died. We had to manually (with wrenches) realign 5 sat dishes to Galaxy 25 for two stations.....took us almost a week to do it.

[00:52:13]

iamlindoro:

ummmm... I'm not sure what you're trying to choose, so.... maybe?

[00:52:43]

Lexridge:

the networks have lovely backup plans in place. Thankfully it was not a national emergency :)

[00:52:45]

iamlindoro:

If you want a DVB-T card and still want a halfway decent analog card, then yeah, sounds like a decent card

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[00:53:08]

iamlindoro:

(presuming there are linux drivers)

[00:53:18]

wagnerrp:

well how close do you have to get the dishes?

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[00:53:50]

iamlindoro:

Steven_M: but yes, seems it has linux support, so should do what you want

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[00:54:15]

Lexridge:

We are using a device that identifies the sats, but it's not real accurate. We had to re-align our pathfire dishes three times...they have to get pretty close.

[00:54:52]

Lexridge:

The higher the frequency, the closer you have to be.....C band for instance, you can be way off and still get it just fine....KU, not!

[00:56:06]

Lexridge:

A spectrum analyzer is a big help in this, but we don't have one as they start at around $50k for a decent one.

[00:56:36]

kormoc:

if you're spending millions, won't take too much scraping to get 50k :P

[00:57:06]

Lexridge:

true, but who needs a spectrum analyzer for an HD upgrade? We tried....it was rejected.

[00:57:18]

Steven_M:

iamlindoro: what do you mean by half-way decent analogue, I thought the other people in this channel already establised that 12Mbit is high for analogue?

[00:57:55]

kormoc:

so start reporting delays due to the digital spectrum being a unknown value off of true and thus you need a spectrum analyzer to figure out which way to turn the knob? :P

[00:58:12]

iamlindoro:

Steven_M: halfway decent == decent

[00:58:14]

Lexridge:

lol, we tried that too

[00:58:14]

iamlindoro:

in US parlance

[00:58:22]

iamlindoro:

it's a saying

[00:59:08]

kormoc:

Steven_M, I use 2mbit for my analog and it looks quite nice imho

[00:59:48]

Lexridge:

we are basically buying two racks for upconversion. One for 1080i (CBS) and the other for 720p (Fox). Plus an Omnion server to automate everything. Then a new production switcher, Chyron and three HD studio cams....7 ENG cams, and two commercial production cams.

[01:00:29]

Lexridge:

We already do all our editing in Final Cut, so it's HD ready right now.

[01:01:55]

Lexridge:

We considered just doing our local news at SD 16x9, but managed to convince the powers that our competition was doing full HD, we should too. that worked. :)

[01:04:33]

Lexridge:

is anyone using MythTV with JACK?

[01:05:07]

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[01:05:15]

Steven_M:

iamlindoro: ok sorry for missunderstanding

[01:07:08]

Steven_M:

iamlindoro: does it's digital features look good too?

[01:07:59]

iamlindoro:

Digital is digital is digital

[01:08:17]

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[01:08:20]

iamlindoro:

So long as the card is supported and you have a decent signal, you get the same stream regardless--= but Hauppauge makes good cards

[01:08:30]

iamlindoro:

so I'm sure it's fine

[01:09:13]

Lexridge:

gotta run. Thanks again all for helping me with my recording problem. I still have a lot to learn about MythTV.

[01:09:20]

Steven_M:

iamlindoro: ok, I've decided to buy it :)

[01:09:26]

** kormoc waves **

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[01:14:13]

Steven_M:

abqjp: wagnerrp: iamlindoro: Thanks to all 3 of you for being very paitent with my newbie questions, you've all been very helpfull :)

[01:14:31]

Steven_M:

bye all

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[02:03:32]

squish102:

i know this is mythtv, but im sure someone can give me some advice for a webcam prog

[02:04:02]

squish102:

i want to record from a webcam when i see movement running from my mythtv box

[02:05:13]

iamlindoro:

seek help in #zoneminder

[02:05:24]

squish102:

thanks

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[02:07:44]

SHADOW__X:

hello everyone

[02:09:24]

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[02:17:38]

wagnerrp:

actually, zoneminder has limited compatibility with mythtv

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[02:17:58]

wagnerrp:

there is a viewer plugin for it

[02:21:37]

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** MartinCleave1 waves **

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[03:02:12]

SHADOW__X1:

hey MartinCleaver did you figure out your tuner stuff

[03:02:35]

MartinCleave1:

DVB works with mplayer

[03:02:39]

MartinCleave1:

Analog doesn't work

[03:02:48]

MartinCleave1:

mythtv doesn't work

[03:03:11]

MartinCleave1:

Yours?

[03:07:37]

SHADOW__X1:

dvb works

[03:07:56]

SHADOW__X1:

i have a "issue" with analog

[03:08:21]

MartinCleave1:

what kernel are you running?

[03:09:41]

MartinCleave1:

uname -r

[03:10:21]

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[03:10:30]

** MartinCleave1 is going to bed soon **

[03:11:40]

SHADOW__X1:

2.16.24.19 i beleive

[03:12:03]

SHADOW__X1:

or 2.6.24.19

[03:12:28]

MartinCleave1:

am on 2.6.18–92.el5

[03:12:53]

MartinCleave1:

I tried to compile the later one, but the machine didn't boot

[03:13:07]

MartinCleave1:

I am pretty tired of trying stuff

[03:14:53]

SHADOW__X1:

alright

[03:14:57]

SHADOW__X1:

:D

[03:15:07]

SHADOW__X1:

dvb is wroking i care more about that

[03:15:28]

MartinCleave1:

y, well that works for me outside of myth

[03:15:44]

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[03:16:36]

SHADOW__X1:

the channels that i want to record are for the most part are on qam so its all good

[03:16:52]

MartinCleave1:

qam = cable?

[03:16:59]

** MartinCleave1 is watching OTA **

[03:17:05]

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[03:17:12]

GreyFoxx:

Mart: Digital cable

[03:17:24]

MartinCleave1:

ah, ta

[03:17:53]

SHADOW__X1:

mhm

[03:18:00]

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[03:18:13]

MartinCleave1:

anyway, someone I know who knows MythTV has offered to look at the setup tomorrow

[03:18:25]

MartinCleave1:

So I'm just going to wait

[03:18:43]

MartinCleave1:

Wish I'd bought an HDHomeRun instead of the 1800

[03:19:36]

SHADOW__X1:

lol hey man i told you depending on the price ill buy the 1800 from ya

[03:19:37]

SHADOW__X1:

lol

[03:19:54]

MartinCleave1:

Almost there now ;)

[03:20:48]

SHADOW__X1:

lol

[03:21:09]

SHADOW__X1:

the homerun doesnt do analog

[03:21:19]

SHADOW__X1:

or does it

[03:21:38]

MartinCleave1:

dunno. Don't overly care I suppose

[03:21:55]

SHADOW__X1:

just does digital

[03:22:19]

MartinCleave1:

k, tw

[03:22:28]

MartinCleave1:

k, ta, rather

[03:22:52]

SHADOW__X1:

it doesnt do gigabyte which i guess it doesnt need to

[03:23:37]

wagnerrp:

doesnt do gigabyte... huh?

[03:24:00]

MartinCleave1:

gig eth

[03:24:10]

SHADOW__X1:

gigabit

[03:24:18]

SHADOW__X1:

ethernet

[03:24:20]

tony12:

i've got mythtv running great except my audio sounds like mickey mouse, i've read about changing my sampling rate but this doesn't help. any ideas on where i can look

[03:24:21]

wagnerrp:

oh, yeah, theres no need for it

[03:24:35]

wagnerrp:

the MOST it will ever see is 38Mbit

[03:24:40]

SHADOW__X1:

just 100 yeah i know but why not through that in there

[03:25:06]

wagnerrp:

no reason, considering 10/100 doesnt harm networks like 802.11b does

[03:25:15]

SHADOW__X1:

yeah i know

[03:32:08]

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[03:35:10]

SHADOW__X1:

night

[03:35:18]

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[03:56:24]

elg:

hi, i've been setting up a box, and really screwed something up. the scheduler won't schedule. i'm not sure what the problem is and there's little investment in the database so I'd rather just restart with a fresh copy of the db. how do I go about that?

[04:01:26]

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[04:11:45]

wagnerrp:

did you set up the database to begin with? or do you have a prebuilt system?

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wagnerrp:

ok then... no help for elg

[04:40:37]

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[04:41:28]

wagnerrp:

well that was interesting timing

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[05:38:45]

jroysdon:

any bluray support in or coming to mythtv soon?

[05:39:07]

fryfrog:

i doubt it, that shit would land myth in a world of legal trouble i'm sure

[05:39:33]

fryfrog:

if your PC is good enough, you can do h264/x264, so you could in theory rip your own hd-dvd or blu-ray titles to that format and play em

[05:40:05]

jroysdon:

uhm, dvd playback or even mpeg2 isn't licensed either, what is the difference?

[05:40:29]

jroysdon:

rather new PC, so you could rip the blu-ray to h264/x264 and playback, eh?

[05:40:41]

fryfrog:

good question, maybe i'm wrong

[05:41:00]

fryfrog:

it might also be that dvd is past the point of caring and blu-ray isn't?

[05:41:04]

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[05:41:18]

fryfrog:

jroysdon: yeah, i don't know anything about it (no blu-ray or hd-dvd reader)

[05:41:28]

jroysdon:

http://revision3.com/systm/bluray/

[05:41:36]

jroysdon:

Has me considering it, since blu-ray readers are like $150 now

[05:41:54]

jroysdon:

as cheap as $129 according to that article

[05:42:13]

fryfrog:

a dvd *writer* is $30 :/

[05:42:23]

jroysdon:

wow, heh

[05:42:32]

jroysdon:

times are changin', eh?

[05:42:38]

fryfrog:

maybe when blu-ray is close to that point i'll stick one in my puter

[05:42:40]

wagnerrp:

yeah, DVD lost their court case, so nothing really ever came of it

[05:42:43]

fryfrog:

jroysdon: sure are :)

[05:42:49]

wagnerrp:

where blu-ray is a court case yet to happen

[05:42:56]

fryfrog:

wagnerrp: ah, is that what happened?

[05:43:03]

fryfrog:

was that decss?

[05:43:07]

wagnerrp:

yes

[05:43:13]

wagnerrp:

'DVD Jon'

[05:43:20]

jroysdon:

wagnerrp, what case? I thought DCMA or whatever still blocks you "illegally" decrypting/bypassing stuff?

[05:43:31]

fryfrog:

ah

[05:43:41]

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[05:43:52]

jroysdon:

(there is no difference between what dvd does and what blu-ray does as far as an encryption key)

[05:43:55]

fryfrog:

except that it is a bit harder to break

[05:43:58]

wagnerrp:

in that they are both encrypted, yes

[05:44:03]

jroysdon:

how hard doesn't matter

[05:44:07]

fryfrog:

true, true

[05:44:15]

jroysdon:

so long as I'm using it to play my own content, if there was legal precedence set that makes any dvd playback legal, it would hold for blu-ray

[05:44:16]

wagnerrp:

technically, you can rot13 a file, and my decrypting it can be considered illegal

[05:44:41]

jroysdon:

(I don't know if linux/unlicensed playback of dvds are technically legal or not)

[05:44:51]

jroysdon:

Frankly, I don't care, I'm playing my own content

[05:44:53]

fryfrog:

ianal, i dunno either

[05:44:53]

wagnerrp:

its technically illegal

[05:44:58]

fryfrog:

yeah, exactly

[05:45:10]

fryfrog:

i got the fucking dvd, i'm playing it (or storing it) how ever the hell i want

[05:45:14]

fryfrog:

bitches

[05:45:20]

wagnerrp:

however it falls under fair use

[05:45:31]

jroysdon:

not so sure on that one

[05:45:44]

wagnerrp:

there is no legal precedence for going after users for personal copying

[05:45:45]

jroysdon:

(see DMCA)

[05:45:52]

wagnerrp:

its illegal

[05:45:56]

fryfrog:

i think it is the catch22

[05:45:58]

wagnerrp:

but theyve never won a court case

[05:46:01]

fryfrog:

it is legal fairuse wise to do it

[05:46:14]

fryfrog:

but illegal to do the development and distribution that does the decryption

[05:46:17]

fryfrog:

or something

[05:46:22]

wagnerrp:

so in writing, its illegal, in practice, its legal

[05:46:27]

wagnerrp:

right

[05:46:37]

wagnerrp:

they only ever go after the people who develop the tools

[05:47:02]

fryfrog:

i'm sure *eventually* blu/hd playback will go into linux the same way dvd did

[05:47:15]

fryfrog:

but dvd playback in linux took a *long* time to happen, imho

[05:47:19]

wagnerrp:

hddvd playback is kind of in linux

[05:47:28]

wagnerrp:

you can rip the disk, decrypt the content, and then play it

[05:47:36]

wagnerrp:

but there is no on-the-fly playback

[05:47:43]

fryfrog:

then so is blu -ray now?

[05:47:51]

fryfrog:

well, maybe you have to rip on mac or windows, i dunno :)

[05:47:51]

wagnerrp:

and you have to grab the decryption key from a website

[05:47:56]

fryfrog:

ah

[05:48:08]

jroysdon:

same thing as decss

[05:48:09]

wagnerrp:

older BR disks are playable in the same manner

[05:48:16]

wagnerrp:

AACS

[05:48:24]

wagnerrp:

newer BR disks use BD+

[05:48:33]

jroysdon:

but it's not like they are updating home bd machines

[05:48:54]

jroysdon:

so someone with an older BR cannot play newer BD+ (BD or BR+ ?)

[05:49:03]

wagnerrp:

currently the only publicly available tool is AnyDVD, which is windows only

[05:49:04]

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[05:49:07]

fryfrog:

i think that is correct?

[05:49:17]

wagnerrp:

BD+ was included in the BR format from the start

[05:49:22]

wagnerrp:

it just wasnt used from the front

[05:49:27]

fryfrog:

maybe some older players can be updated via firmware?

[05:49:33]

jroysdon:

PowerDVD is what that URL I pasted said

[05:49:46]

fryfrog:

wagnerrp: but didn't a bunch of the initial players just not have support for it?

[05:49:52]

wagnerrp:

there are only a handful of hardware players with network access and firmware updating

[05:50:08]

wagnerrp:

for years, the PS3 was the only one

[05:50:13]

jroysdon:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedF . . . uRayAndHDDVD

[05:50:26]

wagnerrp:

as far as players supporting BD+, i assumed they all did

[05:51:15]

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[05:52:12]

jroysdon:

mythtv needs to add support ;-p

[05:52:33]

jroysdon:

as you said, you rip it, then you decrypt it, and then play it

[05:52:36]

wagnerrp:

mythtv needs to see what the legal environment is before adding support

[05:52:40]

jroysdon:

(30gb free space to work on it)

[05:52:53]

jroysdon:

it's not different than decss/dvd

[05:53:08]

wagnerrp:

hopefully, yes

[05:53:19]

wagnerrp:

better to let someone else take the first court case

[05:54:38]

jroysdon:

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1104

[05:54:44]

jroysdon:

it's not as simple as decss

[05:54:46]

jroysdon:

two keys

[05:55:30]

wagnerrp:

thats correct, its not as simple as CSS, but its cracked just the same

[05:55:37]

** jroysdon nods **

[05:55:42]

wagnerrp:

however, legally, its exactly the same

[05:56:35]

Sulx:

does somebody have trunk version myth and nuvexport and working xvid export

[05:57:01]

wagnerrp:

does somebody have trunk version working?

[05:57:30]

Sulx:

trunk is working great

[05:57:34]

wagnerrp:

last ive heard, theyre still mid QT3-QT4 transition

[05:58:05]

jroysdon:

Heh, regarding blu-ray, my wife just said we should get a Wii to make it easier ;-p

[05:58:10]

Sulx:

been using it since multirec branch

[05:58:41]

wagnerrp:

multirec was added back before 0.21

[05:58:56]

Sulx:

yup

[06:00:16]

Sulx:

I used 0.20 multirec branch before and then moved to trunk after merge

[06:06:09]

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[12:24:07]

justinh:

yay everybody's mythtv boxes are working just fine, either that or they're so broken nobody can connect to an IRC server :)

[12:24:45]

webvictim:

:P

[12:24:49]

Sulx:

hehe

[12:24:56]

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[12:25:05]

Sulx:

well...mine is working great :P

[12:25:32]

Sulx:

just xvid/mp3 etc export with nuvexport doesn't work :P

[12:25:59]

justinh:

easy to figure that one out. your ffmpeg package doesn't include support for those codecs

[12:27:03]

Sulx:

it does

[12:27:16]

justinh:

not encoding support, I'll bet

[12:27:35]

Sulx:

Must specify --fifodir to use --fifosync

[12:27:47]

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[12:28:08]

justinh:

ahh nuvexport incompatible with the version of ffmpeg you've got

[12:28:32]

justinh:

they keep changing parameters every five minutes, ffmpeg devs

[12:28:37]

Sulx:

ye something like that

[12:28:50]

Sulx:

haven't really search the problem

[12:29:00]

Sulx:

latest ffmpeg svn doesn't even build

[12:29:26]

Sulx:

r13659 now

[12:29:33]

Sulx:

and latest mythtv and nuvexport trunk

[12:34:37]

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[12:37:25]

anny__:

i compiled mythtv following the instructions found on the main website

[12:37:48]

anny__:

however when the binary mythfrontend wasnt' created

[12:38:00]

anny__:

although the compilation didn't halt or something

[12:38:09]

anny__:

i'm new to linux so bare with me

[12:40:17]

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[12:43:51]

justinh:

maybe you gave ./configure the wrong prefix path

[12:44:14]

justinh:

or maybe you haven't done 'make install' yet

[12:46:45]

justinh:

anyway why are you compiling mythtv yourself? the easiest way is usually to inatll packages for your distro

[12:47:04]

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[12:47:19]

justinh:

if you downloaded the source tarballs, here's some news – they're always woefully out of date even 2 weeks after a new release

[12:48:22]

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[12:49:39]

Sulx:

trunk <3 =)

[12:50:13]

justinh:

trunk is a bit of a fool's (or just developer's) game right now

[12:50:51]

justinh:

there's no point using trunk at the moment because it doesn't offer you any new features to speak of

[12:50:54]

anny__:

i'm compiling on a fedora 6 core

[12:50:57]

Sulx:

bah I have used trunk about 4 months now

[12:51:01]

anny__:

i issued the ./configure

[12:51:04]

Sulx:

without major problems

[12:51:04]

anny__:

without any parameters

[12:51:13]

justinh:

anny__: why not just use the packages?

[12:51:14]

anny__:

and i issued the make and make install

[12:51:23]

anny__:

u're right

[12:51:47]

anny__:

but i couldn't find any decent package for fedora 6

[12:51:56]

anny__:

or maybe i searched the wrong places

[12:52:00]

justinh:

tosh!

[12:52:05]

anny__:

like i said, i'm new to linux

[12:52:10]

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[12:52:15]

justinh:

check out jarod wilson's mythtv guide

[12:52:29]

anny__:

does anyone have a link for an rpm

[12:52:33]

anny__:

on fedora 6

[12:52:34]

justinh:

I trust you're not new to using google!

[12:52:40]

anny__:

hehe

[12:52:42]

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[12:52:43]

anny__:

come on man

[12:52:52]

justinh:

seriously just read jarod's guide

[12:52:53]

anny__:

but sometimes a good link

[12:53:12]

justinh:

you need to know a whole lot more than just where to download an rpm

[12:53:15]

justinh:

READ

[12:53:48]

anny__:

ok, i'll look into jarod's guide

[12:53:59]

justinh:

I do sometimes set out to annoy & frustrate noobs but most of the time I mean what I say. you will not regret looking at that guide

[12:54:45]

anny__:

well, i'll check it. But i just wanted to compile it myself

[12:54:58]

anny__:

i'm interested in the development of mythtv

[12:55:13]

Sulx:

justinh: yea trunk doesn't really offer anything major but converting database back to fixes is a lot of work...I guess?

[12:55:16]

justinh:

if you have problems compiling it, god help you learning to develop

[12:55:50]

anny__:

actaully, developing is irrelevant to compiling

[12:55:57]

justinh:

no it's not

[12:56:06]

anny__:

as u wish

[12:56:19]

justinh:

if you can't get stuff to compile how the hell are you ever going to code stuff?

[12:56:34]

Sulx:

blind?

[12:56:34]

Sulx:

=D

[12:56:39]

anny__:

if u know how to code and u're new to linux environment

[12:56:50]

justinh:

heck, even if it's just to get the feel of mythtv – install packages

[12:57:07]

anny__:

i already tried a boot-cd

[12:57:14]

anny__:

it worked on it

[12:57:16]

justinh:

then when you're up to speed with that, maybe then look at removing the packages & building it yourself

[12:57:25]

justinh:

talk about a steep learning curve

[12:57:40]

anny__:

u sound a smart geek my friend

[12:58:16]

justinh:

I've dabbled

[12:58:47]

anny__:

I presume u're the one that irritate all the newbie around here

[12:58:51]

kslater:

getting mythtv to compile shouldn't be a problem

[12:59:10]

kslater:

at least it wasn't in the past – I wouldn't think it's gone backwards in that regard

[12:59:36]

anny__:

well finally someone that has a sense of understanding

[13:00:01]

justinh:

maybe what you _should_ have asked, which I was going to get around to sooner is this...

[13:00:01]

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[13:00:13]

justinh:

where are the binaries which make install copied? ;-)

[13:00:43]

justinh:

did you see the part of the instructions which tells you to run lddconfig?

[13:00:53]

justinh:

oops ldconfig

[13:01:34]

anny__:

oops what

[13:01:39]

justinh:

ldconfig

[13:01:43]

anny__:

ah...

[13:01:47]

anny__:

ldconfig

[13:01:53]

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[13:01:56]

anny__:

i see a light shining in right now

[13:02:11]

justinh:

refreshes the cache of shared libs IIRC

[13:02:18]

justinh:

won't work without that

[13:02:27]

justinh:

not the first time anyway ;)

[13:02:50]

anny__:

shoudl is say thank u or ... :)

[13:03:23]

justinh:

I'd honestly still suggest getting a feel for mythtv before jumping in with both feet

[13:04:11]

Sulx:

justinh: do you have any suggestions how to downgrade database schema? =)

[13:04:33]

justinh:

Sulx: nope. none other than to restore a backup taken before upgrading

[13:05:49]

justinh:

course mythtv has backed up its own database for a while now :)

[13:06:08]

justinh:

personally I don't see the point in mollycoddling people but it's not my perogative

[13:06:46]

Sulx:

;)

[13:07:26]

Sulx:

bleh I'll stick with trunk...too much trouble to downgrade ;)

[13:09:01]

justinh:

now the qt4 stuff is starting to settle down I think it's probably safer than it was a while ago

[13:09:04]

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[13:09:48]

justinh:

oh yeah almost forgot

[13:10:07]

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[13:10:27]

justinh:

anny__: if you plan to do any work & have it considered for inclusion, any patches you make have to be against trunk (the development version) unless it's just to fix a bug

[13:10:55]

andreax:

Pain! My new lcdtv together in a team with a mythtv-client nails me to bed much longer than in need... :)

[13:10:59]

justinh:

that's the policy, I didn't make it so don't shoot me :)

[13:11:32]

justinh:

andreax: why else do you think I don't have a telly in my bedroom? :P

[13:14:47]

justinh:

all the stuff that happens on weekends would never take place if we had a TV in there

[13:15:34]

andreax:

hehehe.... it's fun if you can choice from the recordings, laying in bed – it's a new feeling for me...

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[14:56:45]

Kieran491:

What are the methods of running MythTV in a minimal eviroment IE geting rid of "Desktop Enviroments" is it possible to run MythTV with out the Desktop eviroment is it possible with X or dose it have to be done with out X?

[14:58:32]

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[14:59:28]

justinh:

you can't do it without X

[14:59:48]

justinh:

you don't specifically need a desktop environment but you always need X

[14:59:55]

Kieran491:

Ok

[15:00:06]

Kieran491:

How can i do it with out the Desktop Enviroment?

[15:01:51]

justinh:

I'd still recommend you use a minimal window manager though

[15:02:22]

justinh:

and your last question is a bit like "I want to perform brain surgery. what kind of saw will I need?"

[15:02:23]

Kieran491:

I Just want mythTV running thats all and if its cloose the system shutsdown

[15:03:36]

GreyFoxx:

Though we recommend and a lightwindow manager

[15:03:42]

GreyFoxx:

doesn't have to be a pig like kde or gnome

[15:03:53]

GreyFoxx:

but something to handle focus issues

[15:04:07]

GreyFoxx:

But that assumes you are spawning external apps

[15:04:26]

GreyFoxx:

if you only use the built in stuff you might get away with no WM at all

[15:04:44]

kslater:

run myth as the WM? Isn't that possible?

[15:04:44]

Kieran491:

Sweet

[15:05:04]

kslater:

well, not as the WM

[15:05:06]

Kieran491:

How could i set that up?

[15:05:08]

kslater:

but the only running application

[15:05:21]

justinh:

again, it's like asking what kind of saw you need to do brain surgery

[15:05:31]

Kieran491:

then what saw do i need?

[15:05:59]

justinh:

a saw to uninstall the big hulking desktop without hurting the stuff mythtv needs

[15:06:09]

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[15:06:22]

justinh:

and a saw which will stitch in a nice X startup script that runs mythfrontend

[15:06:57]

Kieran491:

Mythttv just needs to start i dont need to go off uninstalling

[15:07:10]

justinh:

much more simple then

[15:07:20]

justinh:

search for a howto for your distro :)

[15:07:35]

Kieran491:

i just want mythtv to start i want to get rid of things like desktop, toolbars, right click menus, left click menus

[15:07:44]

wagnerrp:

the highway on ramp near my house connects to the next off ramp

[15:08:09]

wagnerrp:

why do people feel that it is acceptable to not reach highway speeds when just continuing on the ramp

[15:08:14]

justinh:

without knowing any specifics – like what distro you run, which desktop you use.. etc ....

[15:08:18]

wagnerrp:

rather than get on the highway

[15:08:34]

justinh:

ENOTENOUGHINFORMATIONASUSUAL !

[15:08:51]

Kieran491:

well i was hoping there would be a desktop enviroment that would have the features that i am after

[15:09:43]

justinh:

I always hope that people asking for help will furnish plenty information without them needing to be at gunpoint

[15:10:06]

wagnerrp:

there is no 'desktop environment' that has the features you are after

[15:10:19]

wagnerrp:

since by definition, a desktop environment is going to be big and hulking

[15:10:32]

justinh:

the key here is WINDOW MANAGER

[15:10:36]

Kieran491:

what info mation do you need i dont know i can offer you this thought

[15:10:36]

Kieran491:

I am running a mandriva 2008.1 deskstop enviroment unknow so far...

[15:11:00]

Kieran491:

ok window manger what am i looking for then?

[15:11:00]

wagnerrp:

ratpoison is usually a good choice

[15:11:15]

justinh:

Kieran491: you basically said you want to run mythfrontend on top of X. without knowing what you're running now it's IMPOSSIBLE to give advice how you go about that

[15:11:49]

wagnerrp:

or evilwm

[15:11:49]

justinh:

and if all you want is mythfrontend, wtf are you running mandriva for? ;)

[15:11:51]

Kieran491:

what infomation do you need?

[15:11:57]

dustybin:

this is how im going to redo my home network

[15:11:59]

dustybin:

http://paste.linux-noob.com/index.php?query=2687

[15:12:16]

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[15:12:31]

Kieran491:

Mmm great mature

[15:12:48]

Kieran491:

I can see what wrong with internet chat rooms theses days....

[15:12:56]

dustybin:

the infamous quit message

[15:13:39]

Kieran491:

What infomation what he even after its not like i am trying to hold out on him/her i want my answer and i would give any infomation on my machine to achive it simple...

[15:13:56]

Kieran491:

&what infoamtion did he......

[15:15:13]

wagnerrp:

i dont know

[15:15:26]

wagnerrp:

anyway, check out ratpoison or evilwm

[15:15:34]

sid3windr:

dustybin: I don't see a "network" in there :p

[15:15:36]

wagnerrp:

those are minimal, blank window managers

[15:15:36]

Kieran491:

Well know you can see where i was coming from i had no idea what he wanted

[15:15:38]

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[15:15:42]

sid3windr:

why do you have a desktop AND a frontend in the bedroom?

[15:15:43]

Kieran491:

thanks wagnerrp

[15:15:44]

wagnerrp:

just enough to keep focus working properly

[15:16:22]

wagnerrp:

the frontend settings pages can help you automatically shutdown when mythtv closes

[15:16:35]

wagnerrp:

its a built in function

[15:17:02]

wagnerrp:

i see a number of different machines, but yeah, not exactly a network

[15:17:18]

Kieran491:

Yeah i am aware of that function i was just going to make a bash script that opened MythTV and once it cloosed it would run halt or restart the session

[15:17:40]

wagnerrp:

restart what session?

[15:18:20]

Kieran491:

the users

[15:18:41]

wagnerrp:

so this really is a desktop

[15:18:55]

wagnerrp:

why not just run mythtv like normal, inside the full WM?

[15:19:00]

Kieran491:

so they cloose mythtv though some strange means or mythtv has an accident. i would get the users session restarted login them back in and mythtv running

[15:19:32]

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[15:19:58]

wagnerrp:

i mean, why make them log out at all? why not just run it in KDE/Gnome?

[15:20:35]

Kieran491:

I dont want there to be desktop icons or taskbars or right click menus, or anything else i just want mythtv

[15:20:45]

Kieran491:

no other items just mythtv

[15:20:53]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is a full screen application, there will be no other items but mythtv

[15:21:20]

Kieran491:

yes but in the background there is

[15:21:34]

wagnerrp:

so

[15:21:53]

wagnerrp:

it will be in the background, with mythtv over top, blocking view of it

[15:22:18]

iamlindoro_:

Heck, even if you don't want them in the background, there are still WMs that fit the bill. If you run without a WM you are asking for trouble/focus issues

[15:22:23]

Kieran491:

but if mythtv ends in an unexpected event

[15:22:34]

Kieran491:

then your in a DE

[15:22:47]

webvictim:

i've never had it crash on me. :P

[15:22:58]

Kieran491:

i have

[15:23:03]

iamlindoro_:

It's a *snap* to check that mythfrontend is always running and rerun as necessary-- far easier than running without a WM

[15:23:22]

wagnerrp:

but dont you want them to drop back to the desktop when mythfrontend closes?

[15:23:25]

Kieran491:

also its like research for other projects i am attempting to do latter down the line where i dont want a desktop enviroment

[15:24:01]

Kieran491:

i want them not to be able to do anything if mythtv clooses at best the user session restarts and they are staring back at mythtv

[15:24:21]

iamlindoro_:

Kieran491: Myth will have focus and other issues if you run without WM. It is *not* a supported environment. ie, if you do so, you should expect us to pretty much ignore questions from you

[15:25:02]

Kieran491:

Ok what window manger would be best then with out taskbars and no right click menu etc...? i am all open to ideas

[15:25:34]

Kieran491:

i am looking at rodent and the other one at the momment

[15:25:36]

wagnerrp:

the two i mentioned earlier

[15:25:43]

Kieran491:

;)

[15:25:47]

clever:

the taskbar is seperate from the window manager

[15:25:50]

wagnerrp:

rodent = ratpoison?

[15:25:58]

clever:

gnome uses gnome-panel to make the taskbar

[15:26:13]

clever:

you can still run the gnome wm(metacity) without gnome-panel(the task bar)

[15:26:13]

wagnerrp:

anyway, just run the frontend through an looping script

[15:26:50]

clever:

i run metacity and mythfrontend on my thin frontends

[15:27:45]

Kieran491:

yeah ratposion sorry i am reading that email that started the whole project

[15:27:56]

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[15:28:19]

wagnerrp:

something like http://pastebin.ca/1074430

[15:28:49]

wagnerrp:

when the frontend closes, it loops, and starts it back up

[15:28:49]

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[15:29:17]

wagnerrp:

alternatively, you can check out mythwelcome

[15:29:31]

clever:

yeah seems simpler to just

[15:29:33]

Kieran491:

mythelcome?

[15:29:36]

clever:

metacity & mythwelcome

[15:29:45]

clever:

(run that as the command)

[15:29:51]

Kieran491:

hmm k

[15:29:55]

clever:

it can be set to run mythfrontend on startup

[15:30:01]

iamlindoro_:

When someone uses a word that you don't know, rather than asking, cat $WORD > /dev/google

[15:30:23]

sid3windr:

time for a google.ko :D

[15:30:36]

wagnerrp:

that would be fun

[15:30:45]

Kieran491:

or look at the wiki

[15:31:03]

iamlindoro_:

google covers the wiki, but yes, that's an acceptable secondary answer

[15:32:33]

Kieran491:

;) thanks

[15:34:37]

wagnerrp:

dear god... the SCO shit is still on-going

[15:34:56]

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[15:35:03]

iamlindoro_:

except thankfully it's embarrassing defeat after embarrassing defeat :)

[15:35:07]

iamlindoro_:

(now)

[15:35:22]

mikeones_ is now known as mikeones

[15:36:04]

Kieran491:

It still is i thought they lost the suit

[15:36:52]

CRXLNX:

is there a simple cut editor for nuv files so I dont need to transcode until the commercials are out? I plan on using an ext encoder due to the audio sync issue

[15:37:22]

wagnerrp:

you can cut and transcode in the same step

[15:37:25]

iamlindoro_:

You can only losslessly transcode MPEG-2

[15:37:51]

CRXLNX:

as I said I want to do it ext from any mythtv tools

[15:38:08]

iamlindoro_:

the commerical cutout *is* a transcode

[15:38:19]

iamlindoro_:

and con only be done losslessly on.... duhduhduhduhhhhhh

[15:38:20]

iamlindoro_:

MPEG-

[15:38:21]

iamlindoro_:

2

[15:38:59]

CRXLNX:

ok I want to transcode without using myth tool. is that clear now ?

[15:39:43]

iamlindoro_:

You're perfectly clear. I just keep telling you you can't cut the commercials out without transcoding

[15:40:25]

iamlindoro_:

And it will *always* involve quality loss unless the codec is MPEG-2 and you're using the mythtranscode lossless transcode.

[15:41:05]

CRXLNX:

is there a transcode app for nuv files that is not a myth* tool??

[15:41:08]

iamlindoro_:

no

[15:41:12]

iamlindoro_:

well, I mean

[15:41:13]

PatrickDK:

or if you setup for an I frame every second :)

[15:41:15]

iamlindoro_:

ffmpeg will handle nuv fine

[15:42:11]

CRXLNX:

but I cant cut commercials with anything until it is not an nuv file?

[15:42:41]

iamlindoro_:

NUV is just a container, not a codec

[15:43:03]

iamlindoro_:

but generally speaking, if you are dealing with NUV in myth, your codecs are mpeg-4 or RTJPEG

[15:43:16]

iamlindoro_:

and if that's the case, then yes, to cut out commercials will reguire a lossy transcode

[15:43:19]

iamlindoro_:

er require

[15:43:25]

CRXLNX:

I ask this because my workhorse is not the mythbox so I dont have mythtv here to edit/xcode

[15:44:00]

wagnerrp:

well ffmpeg should be able to losslessly remux to a different container shouldnt it?

[15:44:22]

CRXLNX:

and a lossy xcode will cause audio sync issues?

[15:44:33]

iamlindoro_:

it can remux, but the video codec needs to be MPEG-2 to be able to do lossless commercial cut

[15:44:38]

wagnerrp:

only if you screw it up

[15:45:35]

CRXLNX:

but if I xcode an unchaged recording to mpeg2 I can then more easily cut out commercials?

[15:45:36]

wagnerrp:

iamlindoro_: you can use huffyuv, you can use raw, you can use mjpeg/mpng

[15:46:14]

wagnerrp:

any time i do video editing, i usually do it in huffman

[15:46:24]

iamlindoro_:

wagnerrp: Myth doesn't *record* any of those formats. So once fucking again, any myth NUV recording will need a lossy transcode to remove commecials

[15:46:45]

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[15:46:57]

wagnerrp:

well there is no loss going to a lossless format

[15:47:20]

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[15:47:21]

wagnerrp:

of course you have loss coming back from those formats

[15:47:42]

iamlindoro_:

Exactly

[15:48:06]

wagnerrp:

but as long as you keep it in that format, you can remove the commercials with no loss

[15:48:09]

sebrock:

Is the "Y" command broken in current release? For switching tuner input?

[15:48:15]

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[15:48:21]

wagnerrp:

and consume excessive amounts of hard drive space

[15:48:43]

iamlindoro_:

sebrock: Some of the keybindings have changed-- it's next video source now-- but you can bind it to be as it used to be in key bindings

[15:48:45]

CRXLNX:

once I transcode a file I dont plan on putting it back

[15:49:30]

sebrock:

iamlindoro_ It is set up as "Y" in frontend, but doesnt work for me

[15:49:40]

iamlindoro_:

CRXLNX: There is no point in transcoding to an intermediary coec just to cut out commercials. I would investigate whether mencoder will take NUVs, and use EDLs with that to do the whole transcode and commercial cut in one go

[15:49:42]

sebrock:

I can change it from menu tho

[15:50:07]

iamlindoro_:

sebrock: If it doesn't work, then you bound to the wrong function, there are about a half-dozen NEXT_ ones

[15:50:17]

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[15:50:38]

CRXLNX:

once I transcode a file I dont plan on putting it back .... meaning it wont be intermediary. if I xcode to mpeg-2, it will stay mpeg-2

[15:51:12]

iamlindoro_:

Whatever you like. Yes, that would work, but I wouldn't suggest MPEG-2 as an archival format... but hey, whatever makes you happy

[15:51:32]

wagnerrp:

check out avidemux

[15:51:35]

sebrock:

iamlindoro_ well what happens is that the name for my current tuner shows up for a few seconds

[15:51:39]

sebrock:

and then fades

[15:51:44]

wagnerrp:

its supposed to support nuppelvideo

[15:52:01]

CRXLNX:

this is not archival, this is to send to a friend so he can watch it on his xp box

[15:52:16]

iamlindoro_:

Then I especially wouldn't use MPEG-2

[15:52:43]

iamlindoro_:

Since XP doesn't come with an MPEG-2 decoder by default

[15:53:06]

iamlindoro_:

and MPEG-2 doesn't compress as well as, say, xViD or h.264

[15:53:16]

CRXLNX:

ok, thanks you for the advice, please inform me of the best format for making a commercial free file

[15:53:29]

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[15:53:32]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2006/08/ . . . er-edl-file/

[15:53:43]

iamlindoro_:

that will show you haw to make an edl file from your myth cutlist

[15:53:59]

iamlindoro_:

use that edl to transcode with mencoder to and h.264 file or an xViD

[15:54:07]

iamlindoro_:

s/and/an/

[15:55:05]

iamlindoro_:

I would use xvid for SD material, and h.264 for HD material. AVI, MP4, MKV... any of them are fine containers

[15:55:34]

selmanj:

arg comcast gave me a new ip, why did i leave it set to DHCP damnit

[15:55:51]

selmanj:

which is easier; trying to discover the old subnet/router for my old ip, or just updating my dns to the new ip?

[15:55:54]

selmanj:

hmmmmm

[15:56:07]

CRXLNX:

thank you iamlindoro

[15:56:14]

iamlindoro_:

you are welcome

[15:56:15]

wagnerrp:

well avi is rather lacking, but for a small file with a single audio and video stream, it is still adequate

[15:56:23]

PatrickDK:

I just use h264 for everything :)

[15:56:32]

wagnerrp:

ditto

[15:57:37]

iamlindoro_:

It's fine when you control the playback hardware-- but if you want SD material to be easily playable on an "unknown" then xViD is a better idea.

[15:57:41]

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[15:57:51]

CRXLNX:

wagnerrp: I am looking more for size than hi-fi. I am making these files to put on flash drives to send back and forth because he has no source of tv (well not adult swim and com central)

[15:57:53]

iamlindoro_:

ergo the reason all the yarrrrrrr pirate SD stuff is vXiD and the HD stuff is h.264

[15:58:45]

wagnerrp:

well i only mention size because AVI typically cannot exceed 2GB

[15:58:58]

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[15:59:00]

sid3windr:

why not?

[15:59:13]

sid3windr:

container format with signed longs? :/

[15:59:14]

iamlindoro_:

CRXLNX: h.264 will compress better, so if he has a decent to powerful computer, then use h.264 for everything

[15:59:21]

wagnerrp:

if you actually follow the standard, its not supported

[15:59:29]

wagnerrp:

of course no one bothers following the standard anymore

[15:59:58]

clever:

iamlindoro_: some of my pirated stuff has moved to h.264 in avi!

[15:59:58]

iamlindoro_:

That 2 GB thing hasn't been true for over five years

[16:00:11]

clever:

thats a weird combo:P

[16:00:34]

wagnerrp:

right, technically most of the codecs used in avis anymore are not actually supported

[16:00:41]

iamlindoro_:

clever: yeah, weird indeed, thought all the yarrrrr me matey stuff came in MKV now

[16:00:59]

clever:

yeah i perfer mkv with ass subtitles

[16:01:04]

clever:

i can turn them off

[16:01:07]

CRXLNX:

he has a dimension 2400 with a celeron and integrated video

[16:01:20]

wagnerrp:

mmm... raw power in that one

[16:01:21]

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[16:01:26]

CRXLNX:

hehe

[16:01:45]

wagnerrp:

2.8GHz celeron

[16:01:54]

clever:

my 2.9ghz celeron cant even handle 264

[16:02:04]

wagnerrp:

should handle SD h264 content shouldnt it?

[16:02:13]

CRXLNX:

no, his is 1.7 or less I think

[16:02:21]

iamlindoro_:

ooof

[16:02:23]

sebrock:

are all OSDs the same (low) resolution? I find it edgy and ugly...

[16:02:27]

iamlindoro_:

queue up the xViD baby

[16:02:34]

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[16:02:40]

clever:

sebrock: the OSD is rendered at the video resolution

[16:02:45]

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[16:02:54]

clever:

so if you play a 100x100 video the osd will also look like crap

[16:02:58]

iamlindoro_:

sebrock: The OSD is always at teh resolution that your material is at, except with the OpenGL video renderer, where it will be at the screen res

[16:03:11]

wagnerrp:

oh, its up to a 2.8 P4

[16:03:18]

wagnerrp:

the system can have far less in it

[16:03:41]

sebrock:

Ah... that explains it I guess

[16:03:55]

CRXLNX:

I would love to just burn him vcd's but the expense of the disks and shipping prohibits it

[16:04:07]

iamlindoro_:

Expense of whatnow?

[16:04:13]

iamlindoro_:

you can get ten disks for a buck!

[16:04:30]

iamlindoro_:

And also, VCDs, where are we, commie china?

[16:04:50]

CRXLNX:

compared to the smaller package for the flash drives and the fact that I only buy them once

[16:05:28]

CRXLNX:

not china, just not in a position to buy a dvd burner atm

[16:05:38]

iamlindoro_:

Not an allowance week, huh?

[16:05:47]

clever:

i got 2–3 dvd burners

[16:05:50]

wagnerrp:

you can pick one up off newegg for $25

[16:06:08]

iamlindoro_:

Oh, Tenessee, even worse than commie china

[16:06:20]

iamlindoro_:

Er Tennessee

[16:06:26]

CRXLNX:

and dvd-r are more than cdr's, so your 1st point does not apply to dvd's

[16:06:42]

CRXLNX:

yeah, at least I am not from here

[16:06:49]

wagnerrp:

yeah, DVDRs are like $0.15-$0.20/disk

[16:06:58]

iamlindoro_:

^^^ Yeah

[16:07:08]

iamlindoro_:

so 25 GB/$1

[16:07:11]

iamlindoro_:

soooooo

[16:07:12]

iamlindoro_:

yeah

[16:07:39]

wagnerrp:

youll have about 300GB of space for the price of a 2GB flash drive

[16:07:48]

wagnerrp:

well, not including the burner anyway

[16:07:59]

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[16:07:59]

CRXLNX:

not "allowance-week". I have more bills than income for the moment

[16:08:20]

CRXLNX:

havent had allowance for 30yrs

[16:08:46]

iamlindoro_:

I bet if you drop cable then you'll save some money

[16:08:53]

CRXLNX:

I dont have to buy a burner for the flashes

[16:09:09]

CRXLNX:

I only pay 20/mo for my cable

[16:09:33]

iamlindoro_:

And that kind of justification is why you have more bills than income

[16:09:35]

CRXLNX:

$1/Mb

[16:09:40]

iamlindoro_:

But that's neither here nor there

[16:10:28]

CRXLNX:

yeah, you have trouble staying on the topic of the questions that are asked of you

[16:10:56]

iamlindoro_:

Good thing they don't pay me to answer your stupid fucking questions then, eh?

[16:11:11]

CRXLNX:

troll

[16:11:24]

iamlindoro_:

I'll just write myself up for rudeness to the customer right now, then report to my manager's office

[16:11:47]

PatrickDK:

hehe :)

[16:12:06]

** PatrickDK spanks iamlindoro, and enjoys it **

[16:12:21]

CRXLNX:

wow, are you grounded and cant go to the arcade??? you sure got your panties in a wad

[16:12:23]

** iamlindoro_ also enjoys it **

[16:12:41]

iamlindoro_:

That's it, man, nothing to do but make fun of appalachians

[16:12:55]

CRXLNX:

ahh he has a 2.2 I just looked up his svc tag

[16:13:26]

CRXLNX:

I aint from here, you make alot of BAD assumptions

[16:13:48]

CRXLNX:

I already told you I wasnt from here, do you have adhd?

[16:13:59]

iamlindoro_:

There, there, I know all this anger is just the moonshine talking

[16:14:16]

CRXLNX:

I wish I had some shine

[16:14:23]

iamlindoro_:

Now get your truck off the cinder blocks and go buy a DVD burner

[16:14:38]

CRXLNX:

hehe you watch squidbillies?

[16:14:39]

sid3windr:

I'm not from here either

[16:14:41]

sid3windr:

I'm from there

[16:15:12]

wagnerrp:

the concept of a squid with a mullet... distrubs me

[16:15:51]

CRXLNX:

but since you have been the one calling names and cussing, and more. I guess you meant it was you letting your mooshine talk?

[16:16:12]

CRXLNX:

now you will tease about spelling

[16:16:31]

iamlindoro_:

Oh, sure, take away the thunder of my english lesson.

[16:16:33]

CRXLNX:

wagnerrp: right on lol

[16:16:54]

wagnerrp:

ive never actually seen it, just ads

[16:17:02]

CRXLNX:

ahhh

[16:18:43]

high-rez:

What does "Error: Wrong PMT" mean ?

[16:19:38]

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[16:20:18]

iamlindoro_:

high-rez: PMT = Program Map Table... defines the streams within a service-- that error is IIRC usually ignorable in Myth.

[16:20:26]

iamlindoro_:

high-rez: but if a channel is failing to tune you may need to rescan

[16:20:34]

CRXLNX:

well just to ask in the hopes of getting an answer to the question I ask instead of a tangental quip. If I use the method here http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Removing_Commercials will that result in an acceptable file with audio in sync. It would be simpler to just use the menus as they are

[16:20:35]

high-rez:

Gotcha. Cool.

[16:21:08]

high-rez:

I see it a lot when myth crawls transponders for guide data.

[16:21:17]

iamlindoro_:

high-rez: yeah, that's not a problem at all

[16:23:29]

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[16:23:51]

iamlindoro_:

CRXLNX: You have gotten an answer to every question you have asked so far, in great detail-- But since you'd rather bite the hand that feeds you, I don't think you'll be getting any further answers

[16:23:52]

levander:

Any idea why there would be no guide data in mythweb, but on the television, using mythtv, the guide data is fine?

[16:24:17]

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[16:24:29]

iamlindoro_:

levander: any chance you're using mismatched versions?

[16:24:33]

CRXLNX:

I just caught the hand that slapped me

[16:24:58]

CRXLNX:

, and I have agreed/accepted every bit of advice you gave

[16:25:06]

levander:

iamlindoro_: nah, i'm running mythbuntu, i haven't played with it myself

[16:25:23]

levander:

iamlindoro_: well, unless they messed up the versions in an automatic update I did

[16:25:33]

levander:

E.g., 'sudo apt-get upgrade'

[16:25:50]

iamlindoro_:

levander: probably not, you're probably fine

[16:26:20]

iamlindoro_:

levander: might be worth doing a DB check, though (mysqlcheck -uroot mythconverg)

[16:26:49]

Kieran491:

Huh

[16:26:51]

levander:

well now i just said that, and i did a 'sudo apt-get upgrade', looks like a bunch of upgrades need to take place, some of them are myth... I guess the nightly automatic updates stopped working??

[16:27:05]

Kieran491:

there is a Desktop Enviroment Called MythTV :|

[16:27:09]

levander:

iamlindoro_: I'm gonna do that DB check you mention first though.

[16:27:14]

Kieran491:

it came with the mythtv rpm

[16:27:24]

levander:

Is Kieran491 a troll?

[16:27:31]

iamlindoro_:

levander: I would strongly advise you to turn off automatic updates-- automatic updates and mythTV don't coexist nicely

[16:27:35]

Kieran491:

huh?

[16:27:53]

CRXLNX:

so I am happy to apologize for my difficultness if you apologize for your name calling

[16:27:58]

levander:

iamlindoro_: interesting... Do you use mythubuntu too?

[16:28:13]

iamlindoro_:

levander: Generally, no, but I have used it

[16:28:47]

SHADOW__X:

levander: if you compiled your own driver the latest kernel update is liekly to break it it happened to me

[16:29:12]

levander:

I never apply kernel updates unless I'm doing a dist-upgrade.

[16:29:17]

iamlindoro_:

*any* compiled module will be broken by *any* kernel upgrade, not just the newest

[16:29:52]

SHADOW__X:

i know iamlindoro_ i just wasnt thinking when i upgraded

[16:29:55]

levander:

Ubuntu stopped making people install them in the automatic updates because so many people had problems. Now, it's an optional thing you can install if they do do one.

[16:30:38]

Kieran491:

Huh it looks like the person who compiled up this RPM also make an entry into /etc/X11/dm/sessions/ and called it MythtvFrontend :| it justs "Exec=/etc/X11/xdm/Xsession MythFrontend" but thats what i was looking for :| found it by accident just thought i should let you guys knows

[16:31:26]

CRXLNX:

well I am man enough to apologize for myself regardless. text chat w/o verbal inflection and body language can lead to bud situations and I was not innocent of any wrong doing

[16:31:35]

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[16:35:11]

kslater:

Kieran491: that's what I was fuzzily remembering

[16:35:38]

kslater:

I've long used mythtv and used to roll it all by hand myself. lately I just use mythdora

[16:35:51]

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[16:36:42]

Kieran491:

I find it easy to install mythtv it self but to set it up just right takes a lot of time to get those little things correct

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[16:39:56]

Kieran491:

The frontend seems a bit slugish what can cause the slugish feel?

[16:40:52]

CRXLNX:

the menu theme size maybe?

[16:41:26]

CRXLNX:

has to move bigger files in and out to draw stuff... just a guess

[16:41:50]

Kieran491:

I haven't yet install the nvidia drivers for my card would that cause slow operation?

[16:42:03]

sohocoke:

kslater: how does mythdora compare to mythbuntu?

[16:42:04]

PatrickDK:

I doubt that

[16:42:05]

CRXLNX:

well I mean theme choicen not size. sorry

[16:42:09]

PatrickDK:

I run 640x480 and it's slow

[16:42:16]

PatrickDK:

and I also run 1280x760 and it's fast

[16:42:27]

PatrickDK:

using two identical systems

[16:42:30]

Kieran491:

So its the scaling

[16:43:24]

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[16:43:27]

PatrickDK:

for me, it's the key presses feel lagged

[16:43:29]

CRXLNX:

hi-color theme vs lo-color theme, but that is really astab in the dark

[16:43:40]

PatrickDK:

using same themes here, on both

[16:44:12]

Kieran491:

Yeah its like there half a second slow or just dont respond

[16:44:22]

CRXLNX:

you could try swapping to a lo-color theme Kieran491 just to eliminate it, but PatrickDK makes a good point

[16:44:25]

PatrickDK:

using a usb keyboard on the slow one

[16:44:39]

PatrickDK:

and using a bluetooth-usb adaptor and bluetooth keyboard on the fast one

[16:45:39]

Kieran491:

hmm i am just using a PS/2 Keyboard

[16:45:59]

PatrickDK:

I wrote the slowness off as being a not so good network card

[16:46:36]

SHADOW__X:

chane the reso on the slow one

[16:46:42]

Kieran491:

The frontend is also the backend

[16:46:54]

SHADOW__X:

if thats the only difference

[16:46:58]

CRXLNX:

ahh no net issue there

[16:48:22]

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[17:15:55]

Kieran491:

Ahh sweet with the drivers installed i am seeing some reall speed improvments with the GUI

[17:16:16]

CRXLNX:

coolbeanz

[17:16:29]

CRXLNX:

what drivers?

[17:16:36]

CRXLNX:

oh nv

[17:16:38]

CRXLNX:

nvm

[17:19:28]

Kieran491:

nvidia

[17:19:58]

Kieran491:

but then again i saw improvemnt across the board so it could have been my distro in the first place :)

[17:20:08]

kslater:

sohocoke: hard to say really. I have some parts of mythbuntu on a couple of laptops so that they can function as frontends. I've never installed in total though. I like the completeness of mythdora though. I would say both are good.

[17:21:40]

wagnerrp:

why not just install the frontend manually?

[17:21:50]

wagnerrp:

theres negligable setup for a frontend

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[17:49:07]

pdlnhrd:

can anyone help with getting my video capture card working.. i have the Hauppauge pvr 250.. i am using ubuntu 8.04

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[17:52:30]

pdlnhrd:

i believe the modules are loaded correctly http://pastebin.com/d7dc11944 but when i try to cat /dev/video0 > foo.mpg it produces an empty file

[17:53:39]

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[17:54:42]

slim_:

hello all while installing mythtv on archlinux i got this error: http://phpfi.com/333086 how to fix this ?

[17:56:15]

iamlindoro_:

That error looks like something arch specific (ie it's not a myth related error)... your distros room is probably the better place to ask about it

[17:57:02]

slim_:

thanks iamlindoro_ i will ask archlinux

[17:57:06]

iamlindoro_:

pdlnhrd: You need to look at the dmesg ourput for when your module is loaded-- if I had to guess off the top of my head, I'd say probably that you haven't put the firmware into the right directory

[17:57:12]

iamlindoro_:

er output

[17:57:16]

iamlindoro_:

slim_: np, good luck

[17:57:42]

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[17:58:43]

pdlnhrd:

iamlindoro: dmesg shows that everything loads just fine and registers itself :(

[17:59:04]

SHADOW__X:

iamlindoro_ could it also be that pdlnhrd could be catting the wrong device video0 instead of video1 unless it is unlike my hvr

[17:59:14]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: it is unlike you hvr

[17:59:17]

SHADOW__X:

oh ok

[17:59:24]

iamlindoro_:

pdlnhrd: pastebin the dmesg output

[17:59:35]

SHADOW__X:

you cant access the raw video output

[17:59:43]

SHADOW__X:

or is that because the driver isnt merged yet

[17:59:44]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: on 250/150/350/500s it is /dev/video0, 24, and 32

[17:59:56]

SHADOW__X:

oh ok thanks didnt know thats why i asked

[18:00:08]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: ivtv has been in the kernel for some time, it is long since merged

[18:00:14]

pdlnhrd:

iamlindoro: http://pastebin.com/d57cfa291

[18:00:14]

SHADOW__X:

oh ok

[18:00:52]

iamlindoro_:

pdlnhrd: And you matchd the correct firmware to the ivtv version #?

[18:00:54]

iamlindoro_:

er matched

[18:01:40]

pdlnhrd:

iamlindoro: no... i guess i was making an assumption because it looks like it loaded correctly

[18:02:26]

iamlindoro_:

pdlnhrd: if so, then I'd say you will need to seek help in #ivtv of #v4l, as the myth support channel sort of presumes you already have a working tuner

[18:02:37]

iamlindoro_:

er #ivtv OR #v4l

[18:02:50]

iamlindoro_:

this may also be relevant: http://www.ivtvdriver.org/index.php/Firmware

[18:02:56]

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[18:02:56]

pdlnhrd:

iamlindoro: thanks for your help.. i will do that

[18:04:54]

iamlindoro_:

you are welcome, good luck

[18:04:58]

pdlnhrd:

sweet a simple modprobe -r ivtv && modprobe ivtv fixed it

[18:05:03]

iamlindoro_:

oh, nice

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[18:05:25]

pdlnhrd:

now onto the install...

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[18:37:44]

dustybin:

modprobe justinh

[18:37:46]

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[18:37:58]

mindphlux:

hi, I'm running a KNC1 TVStation DVBS2 card. Multiproto installed, szap2 and scan work fine. mythtv's DVB-S2 patch is installed.. mythtv however displays this error when trying to import scan's channel.conf: DVBSM(0): Warning: can not count uncorrected blocks eno: Operation not supported (95)

[18:38:24]

iamlindoro_:

[879393.245443] hustinh: Unknown symbol surly_bastard

[18:38:30]

iamlindoro_:

er justinh, damnit

[18:38:53]

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[18:39:40]

iamlindoro_:

mindphlux: As there is absolutely no official support for multiproto/S2 in Myth, there is a corresponding amount of support for it in this channel :)

[18:40:03]

mindphlux:

iamlindoro: This is great to know, indeed ;-)

[18:40:36]

mindphlux:

I'd like to find out if this is a multiproto problem and/or a mythtv problem

[18:41:33]

Cyberai:

I'm having a devil of a time with firewire lately. I keep missing recordings from my STB because of fw failures. I updated to the most current fw libs with no change. I can use "firewire_tester -n 0 -B" and then it works, but scheduled recordings keep failing. Can anyone suggest a way to fix this?

[18:41:53]

iamlindoro_:

all the google results for the error message seem to relate to the multiproto patch, but that may be coincidence

[18:41:57]

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[18:42:34]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: Just because you can stabilize one moment doesn't mean it isn't 5C the next

[18:42:34]

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[18:42:38]

SHADOW__X:

according to this only dvb-s is supported

[18:42:40]

SHADOW__X:

http://www.nabble.com/MythTV-and-multiproto-D . . . 8s15552.html

[18:43:05]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: Work !=supported... there is *no* Multiproto or S2 support in myth

[18:43:13]

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[18:43:17]

mindphlux:

There is only a experimental patch available, SHADOW__X

[18:43:19]

iamlindoro_:

and anyway, that is out of date. AFAIK the current patches allow S2

[18:43:28]

SHADOW__X:

oh ok

[18:43:30]

Cyberai:

iamlindoro, I know, but the programs in question will record if I am there and use firewire-tester to get the connection stable first.

[18:43:42]

SHADOW__X:

sorry for phrasing

[18:43:47]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: Any chance your backend is being restarted or going up/down?

[18:43:52]

Cyberai:

they are non 5C'd or cci-bit protected content and channels

[18:44:03]

Cyberai:

iamlindoro, no

[18:44:12]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: I find that I need to prime after each backend restart-- also, you really ought to turn OFF Firewire bus reset in mythtv-setup (General)

[18:44:32]

iamlindoro_:

for at least me and Greyfoxx, that is the difference between getting all or 60% of our recordings

[18:44:33]

Cyberai:

hmmm, I should look for that setting. i was unaware of it

[18:44:51]

SHADOW__X:

i guess i should shut that off aswell

[18:44:52]

SHADOW__X:

?

[18:44:53]

Cyberai:

iamlindoro_ exactly what does it do?

[18:44:57]

iamlindoro_:

It is on by default

[18:45:21]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: There is no reason to shut it off for no reason whatsoever (ie in the absence of problems)

[18:45:28]

SHADOW__X:

oh alright

[18:46:19]

Cyberai:

sigh, I can't wait for the hauppage HD-PVR drivers etc to get to a more production state. I plan to get one and never use FW for anything except telling the STB to change channels.

[18:46:55]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: When Myth gets no input, it tries to reset the bus-- unfortunately, if your box is slow to tune/prime, it can do this forever instead of waiting for it to stabilize and start streaming

[18:47:11]

Cyberai:

ack, thats' sucky

[18:47:21]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: so if you are getting that problem and turn off bus reset, then myth will patiently wait for the box to start streaming

[18:47:26]

iamlindoro_:

It's not sucky if you need it

[18:47:34]

iamlindoro_:

but it's sucky if it breaks recording :)

[18:48:12]

Cyberai:

true, true

[18:48:49]

iamlindoro_:

I bet it will make a difference, sounds a lot like what I was seeing with bus reset enabled

[18:51:29]

Cyberai:

I hope so

[18:51:48]

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[18:52:22]

Cyberai:

so does anyone know more about the progress on the hauppage HD-PVR -MythTV integration that what I see on MythTVNews.com?

[18:52:32]

iamlindoro_:

Don't read that POS

[18:52:58]

Cyberai:

wow, dont' hold back, tell me how you really feel. :)

[18:53:00]

iamlindoro_:

Whoever writes that must just sit in the channel and transcribe the occasional thing they hear

[18:53:21]

iamlindoro_:

Ever notice how most of the headlines end with a ?

[18:53:27]

PatrickDK:

much like us :)

[18:53:45]

iamlindoro_:

If you are speculating that, for example, "Roku Netflix Player – potential $99 MythFrontend?"

[18:53:48]

iamlindoro_:

Then it is NOT news

[18:53:58]

iamlindoro_:

especially when there is absolutely no information to support said headline

[18:54:01]

Cyberai:

well, I read about it here first – http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/337317#337317

[18:54:37]

iamlindoro_:

The wiki page is as up to date as it gets, and no, very little difference since I laste edited that

[18:54:39]

Cyberai:

googling it brought me to mythtvnews

[18:54:40]

** PatrickDK speculates that iamlindoro will go postal and burn down the channel **

[18:54:50]

Cyberai:

lol

[18:54:57]

** iamlindoro_ flicks his Zippo... open and shut.... open and shut... **

[18:55:00]

Dagmar:

Good thing we had that asbestos put in

[18:55:07]

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[18:55:36]

SHADOW__X:

heh

[18:55:41]

Dagmar:

I would like to stab someone over that Roku thing

[18:56:29]

PatrickDK:

dagmar, so is that $99 per frontend? or my whole myth setup :)

[18:56:54]

Dagmar:

PatrickDK: At first glance, it just looks like bullshit made up news to me

[18:56:59]

iamlindoro_:

Everyone who thinks that anything with component outs can be a myth frontend needs a sever beating

[18:57:11]

iamlindoro_:

er severe

[18:57:13]

Dagmar:

Give me a few more hours to think about it and I am sure I can find multiple detailed reasons to hate and revile it.

[18:57:39]

PatrickDK:

I'm just playing, I don't do netflix

[18:57:42]

kormoc:

you can likely flash the roku to be a general linux box, but you'll likely lose out on the custom acceleration

[18:57:43]

Dagmar:

I can think of several purely business reasons already

[18:57:44]

PatrickDK:

and couldn't careless

[18:59:57]

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[19:01:05]

dustybin:

im going to re-do my entire home network, catering for HD recordings, this is what it will look like

[19:01:08]

dustybin:

http://paste.linux-noob.com/index.php?query=2688

[19:01:14]

PatrickDK:

it's only 3pm

[19:01:41]

PatrickDK:

dustybin, need to use visio?

[19:01:48]

dustybin:

whats that?

[19:02:08]

PatrickDK:

to make it pretty :)

[19:02:11]

dustybin:

yuk its MS

[19:02:12]

dustybin:

no thanks

[19:02:43]

dustybin:

PatrickDK: im sure there must be a open-source of something similar out there

[19:02:43]

kormoc:

Dia! Open Office! GraphVis! A million other tools!

[19:03:26]

Cyberai:

iamlindoro_ good wiki, thanks for the info. Sounds like it's on a good solid start. if you had to speculate, when do you think it would be ready to be merged into a MythTV release?

[19:03:33]

dustybin:

im going to buy a nice big black high quality server case

[19:03:54]

dustybin:

i do like the look of the IBM cases but im not sure if they are ideal

[19:04:48]

kormoc:

lian li

[19:05:12]

dustybin:

i have a lian li black desktop case, not bad

[19:05:20]

kormoc:

Cyberai, Why does a random date matter?

[19:05:56]

Cyberai:

kormoc, Just want to know when I should start saving up my pennies to buy one :)

[19:06:15]

kormoc:

Cyberai, if you're saving pennies, you might as well start now :P

[19:06:38]

SHADOW__X:

dustybin: lian li cases look good but a bit expensive but quality none the less

[19:06:57]

Cyberai:

kormoc, I tried buyng stuf with pocket lint, but didn't have much luck

[19:07:35]

Cyberai:

I'm also waiting to upgrade from 2.0 until I get an HD-PVR and then do it all at once.

[19:07:38]

kormoc:

Cyberai, but really, it's a unknown future date, no matter what anyone says, it can be entirely wrong or mostly wrong. Asking for dates seems to just place a undue amount of weight on the person who is volunteering their time to get it working

[19:07:46]

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[19:08:33]

Dagmar:

Shadow_X: Compared to what the letters H, T, P, and C do to the price of a case, Lian-Li is actually pretty cheap.

[19:09:03]

SHADOW__X:

well yeah when they do that its absurd

[19:09:05]

SHADOW__X:

lol

[19:09:30]

dustybin:

i kind of know what CPU power is required for a HD frontend, but i havent a clue what kind of specs a HD backend should have

[19:09:41]

Cyberai:

kormoc, I know, I don't intend to pressure anyone. I'm very keenly interested in getting this working as CCI-bit and 5C blocks 90% o fmy HD programming from me, leaving me with S-Video downsampled digital and standard analog video.

[19:09:57]

Cyberai:

dustybin, a backend can have suprisingly low horsepower

[19:10:15]

dustybin:

Cyberai: even with 4 HD channels recording at the same time?

[19:10:24]

Cyberai:

ah, then no

[19:10:44]

dustybin:

are hard disks fast enough to record 4x HD channels?

[19:11:08]

PatrickDK:

4 hd channels would use about 10mbytes per second

[19:11:15]

PatrickDK:

I hope your drives from 15years ago could do that

[19:11:22]

dustybin:

thats not bad

[19:11:38]

dustybin:

im going to buy 4x 1TB disks

[19:11:39]

PatrickDK:

it's the commflagging that is going kill you

[19:11:57]

dustybin:

PatrickDK: i dont do commflagging in the UK anyway, it doesnt work here

[19:12:07]

PatrickDK:

ok :)

[19:12:12]

Cyberai:

yeah, I'm not the expert on it, but it's always been my understanding that IO has never been the problem, it's CPU power to process it

[19:12:15]

Dagmar:

Okay, so the first thing I'm thinking is that these Roku people might be getting subsidized by Netflix for selling these units.

[19:12:32]

PatrickDK:

there is no cpu power to process hd

[19:12:46]

PatrickDK:

not for the backend

[19:12:48]

Dagmar:

So, for people to be hollering "Oooh a $99 mythtv frontend" might actually be endangering the possibility that they'll be making more than a small run of these before going out of business.

[19:12:52]

dustybin:

PatrickDK: could i get away with a pentium 3.2 chip for a HD backend?

[19:12:56]

Cyberai:

PatrickDK, i was referring to playback

[19:13:05]

PatrickDK:

cyberai, he asked backend

[19:13:13]

Dagmar:

For another, I think we shouold beat the editor of that site because it's an unsubstantiated rumor.

[19:13:15]

Cyberai:

PatrickDK, i know, it was my bad

[19:13:17]

PatrickDK:

dustybin, you could get away with 1ghz

[19:13:28]

dustybin:

PatrickDK: bloody heck, seriously?

[19:13:38]

PatrickDK:

ya, if it isn't running mysql

[19:13:49]

dustybin:

interesting

[19:13:50]

PatrickDK:

now, you may kill the cpu on interrupts

[19:14:00]

PatrickDK:

but really it doesn't use any cpu at all

[19:14:03]

Dagmar:

I'll bet it's the same people who run OSNews.com who have that site, so unsubstantiated nonsense would be pretty normal for tham

[19:14:10]

PatrickDK:

it takes data from hd card and shoves it to the harddrive/network

[19:14:12]

Cyberai:

I used to have an 800Mhz PIII secondary backend in my closet that just recorded analog cable. I could record 3 channels on it simultaniously wihtout trouble.

[19:14:14]

PatrickDK:

and that is all the cpu that is needed

[19:14:20]

dustybin:

right ok

[19:14:50]

PatrickDK:

I use about 10% of my 850mhz cpu doing 8mbps sd

[19:15:07]

PatrickDK:

it maybe less than 10%

[19:15:12]

PatrickDK:

that box does other things as well

[19:15:23]

dustybin:

ill have to think about what else will be running on my server, zoneminder will eat CPU if i have 4x IP cameras hooked up

[19:15:27]

PatrickDK:

hd is just slightly over 2x that

[19:15:30]

Cyberai:

My Athlon dual core FX60 rarely goes over 30% cpu even with HD recording and playing simultaniously.

[19:16:05]

Dagmar:

PatrickDK: Whose idea of "hd" is the source material tho

[19:16:05]

Cyberai:

but its a dual front and backend

[19:16:10]

PatrickDK:

my 2.8ghz single core can't playback any hd I have :)

[19:16:13]

Dagmar:

Warez kiddies can't find their ass with both hands.

[19:16:23]

PatrickDK:

dagmar, it doesn't matter what the source of the hd is

[19:16:29]

PatrickDK:

hd is 19.5mbps max, period

[19:16:29]

Dagmar:

Yes, it does.

[19:16:36]

dustybin:

PatrickDK: my pentium 3.2 HT cannot playback HD properly

[19:16:52]

PatrickDK:

dagmar, we are talking hd recoring here on the backend :)

[19:16:57]

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[19:16:57]

bsdfox:

19.5mbps? that's a shitty old harddrive

[19:16:58]

PatrickDK:

so the source has to be cable or air

[19:17:10]

bsdfox:

nm

[19:17:12]

Cyberai:

pretty much everything I've ever read has said that you really want dual core if you want to have a good hd experience

[19:17:12]

Dagmar:

Warez kiddies seem to think "HD" means "I told my encoder to use a widescreen aspect ratio"

[19:17:28]

Cyberai:

Dagmar, ROFL

[19:17:46]

dustybin:

this time next year we will have hardware accelleration linux drivers

[19:17:54]

PatrickDK:

I love the video's where people used the wrong aspect ratio

[19:18:00]

Cyberai:

dustybin, I read that too, that's going to help a lot

[19:18:06]

Dagmar:

...which is why I suggest using something like Elephant Dream or Big Buck Bunny as test material for HD

[19:18:15]

dustybin:

Cyberai: that would be REALLY cool if they worked with intel chips

[19:18:37]

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[19:18:48]

Cyberai:

dustybin, I only heard about ATI and Nvidia

[19:18:54]

dustybin:

ok

[19:19:18]

Cyberai:

but work demands have kept me on the fringes for a while

[19:19:23]

Cyberai:

im not the guy to ask

[19:24:25]

bsdfox:

http://www.ehomeupgrade.com/2008/07/10/mythtv . . . ode-release/

[19:24:35]

bsdfox:

roku is releasing GPL code for the device

[19:25:19]

kormoc:

bsdfox, they already did, and it's limited to only GPL apps they use, meaning already open apps

[19:25:25]

Cyberai:

tigerdirect has some insane deals on fast hardware sometimes. I got my barebones system from them for like $300 and it was good enought to do HD record/play at 1080p with no problems. I tested it with a 15 minute HD video in 1080p at 15mps from a site I found.

[19:25:49]

bsdfox:

wow 2.6.19

[19:26:10]

kormoc:

bsdfox, see http://www.roku.com/community/gpl_nfp.php

[19:28:08]

dustybin:

bsdfox: they device doesnt seem to have a VGA/DVI output?

[19:28:16]

dustybin:

that

[19:29:02]

bsdfox:

wow, 5w under load

[19:29:14]

bsdfox:

it has hdmi

[19:29:21]

bsdfox:

you can do hdmi->dvi

[19:29:32]

kormoc:

assuming it doesn't require HDCP

[19:30:14]

dustybin:

what CPU does that box have?

[19:30:23]

dustybin:

i dont see any intel signs

[19:30:34]

bsdfox:

it's an NXP processor

[19:30:39]

dustybin:

WTF is that

[19:30:41]

bsdfox:

new one in the "set-top box" market

[19:30:48]

bsdfox:

probably ARM

[19:30:52]

dustybin:

right ok

[19:31:08]

bsdfox:

http://www.nxp.com/#/aip/aip=[aip=416]|pp=[t=aip,i=416]

[19:31:17]

bsdfox:

http://www.nxp.com/applications/set_top_box/ip_stb/stb225/

[19:31:25]

dustybin:

Roku have released the drivers what can playback HD ?

[19:31:26]

kormoc:

dustybin, there's only a few thousand processors out there :P

[19:31:34]

dustybin:

:-0

[19:33:14]

bsdfox:

says it's a "MIPS32" processor

[19:33:26]

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[19:36:04]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: Sorry, I went to the gym just before you asked me that question, looks like it got answered pretty well, though, with an "I runno." :)

[19:36:17]

dustybin:

i like the look of these entry level intel servers

[19:36:19]

dustybin:

http://serverconfigurator.intel.com/details.aspx?id=1008

[19:36:23]

dustybin:

they look nice and solid

[19:36:53]

Cyberai:

is ok iamlindoro_

[19:37:02]

Cyberai:

hope u had a good workout

[19:37:09]

iamlindoro_:

Intel is always good hardware-- if you're going to pay for server quality stuff, if you can, I would rack it-- you can get most Home Entertainment stuff rackmounted too, and it looks really sharp when you do

[19:37:18]

Cyberai:

I'm a sheiko/westside powerlifting man myself :)

[19:37:23]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: Makes me less irritable :)

[19:38:53]

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[19:38:56]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: now thats a idea

[19:39:09]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: i will buy either intel or ibm for my HD home server

[19:39:30]

Cyberai:

I usually work out at the gym in my office building. They are unusual in that they have enough free weights to be a "real" gym. A female co-worker recently told me that the girls in the office call me "McBeefy" in the locker room. I have yet to decide if that's a compliment or an insult.

[19:40:07]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: I am considering converting a side of my closet into a nice, sturdy rack and moving more stuff in there, I'm just not looking forward to tearing up the walls again to rerun some of the cabling

[19:40:15]

kormoc:

Ask a cutie out, if she says no, it's an insult, if she says yes, it's a compliment

[19:40:21]

iamlindoro_:

Cyberai: Heh, *sounds* like a compliment!

[19:40:42]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: what happens to PCI cards on a 1U rack server?

[19:41:07]

Cyberai:

kormoc, not sure how the fiancee would take that.

[19:41:07]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: they are often on a riser and turned 90 degrees

[19:41:17]

dustybin:

ok

[19:41:20]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: and usually only one or two

[19:43:46]

dustybin:

this looks ok, but it says only 1 pci-e

[19:43:48]

dustybin:

http://serverconfigurator.intel.com/details.aspx?id=1569

[19:44:47]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: Have you owned honest-to-goodness server hardware?

[19:45:07]

dustybin:

what the hell does that mean?

[19:45:15]

iamlindoro_:

I'm not trying to tease you in the least

[19:45:18]

iamlindoro_:

so relax

[19:45:21]

dustybin:

lol

[19:45:40]

iamlindoro_:

I'm asking if you have owned server hardware (by which I mean rackmount or beefy boxes actually sold as "servers")

[19:45:54]

iamlindoro_:

I just wanted to mention that they prioritize power and cooling over quiet

[19:46:10]

iamlindoro_:

and that the turbines in most server stuff are louder than anything you have ever heard

[19:46:23]

iamlindoro_:

like, vacuum cleaner loud

[19:46:29]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: no i havent, i build my machines from scratch and buy boxes for them

[19:46:37]

iamlindoro_:

Wanted to mention it in case you hadn't worked in a data center or something like that

[19:46:48]

dustybin:

nope not my job

[19:46:55]

SHADOW__X:

even little 1us are loud as hell

[19:46:56]

iamlindoro_:

it's possible/fine to use them in the home, just wanted to mention it because you may want to consider some things for noise damping, etc.

[19:47:17]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: bloody heck

[19:47:36]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: i am considering moving my server into the attic

[19:47:45]

kormoc:

Cyberai, just tell her you're attempting to better yourself for her and thus you needed other female feedback, cause you wanted it to be a surprise to her?

[19:47:50]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: You also might consider building your own stuff and just using rack shelves for it, so it is still sexy looking, but you can adjust the volume with commodity stuff

[19:47:50]

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[19:48:07]

plb_:

anyone know if the ATI all-in-wonder 8500dv will work in mythtv?

[19:48:17]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: good idea

[19:48:25]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: Does it have a v4l driver?

[19:48:35]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: ill have a look for some bare bones 2U racks

[19:48:45]

plb_:

i dunno...heh some guy is giving me the thing I haven't really research it

[19:48:57]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: point being, myth doesn't support cards, linux does-- and if it has v4l drivers, then probably... but in that card's case, I highly doubt it will have much linux support

[19:49:17]

Dagmar:

I thought tuner parts of the All-In-Wonders were a no-go

[19:49:24]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: Another thing you might take a look at is an empty rackmount case, then fill it with commodity, quiet stuff

[19:49:36]

dustybin:

ok

[19:49:41]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar: I think that's correct-- just wanted to make the point re: Myth doesn't support cards

[19:49:44]

SHADOW__X:

as did i gatoos did stuff but i check their site hasnt been updated in a long time

[19:49:50]

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[19:50:03]

dustybin:

these look interesting

[19:50:05]

dustybin:

http://www.asimobile.com/server_intel_demp_bb.htm

[19:50:20]

Dagmar:

....and you *might* want to never ever say "I really haven't researched it" after asking a question on IRC.

[19:50:43]

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[19:50:50]

dustybin:

Dagmar: :P

[19:50:55]

Dagmar:

...cuz then the whole thing turns into "HAI I R 2 LAZY 2 REED GUGLE. SUM1 REED 2 MEE"

[19:51:06]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: Those look like nice systems, too... probably same loudness, though

[19:51:18]

dustybin:

yep

[19:51:29]

kormoc:

plb_, it does tend to imply you only view this room full of people as a interface to google, which is a bit insulting generally speaking...

[19:51:33]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: it doesnt matter if the backend makes noise

[19:51:43]

plb_:

lol

[19:51:47]

plb_:

nah im looking now

[19:51:52]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: You're the decider on that one, I didn't know where you planned to put it

[19:51:58]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: if it's a closet it

[19:52:00]

plb_:

http://www.linuxtv.org/v4lwiki/index.php/ATI/AMD

[19:52:02]

iamlindoro_:

'll probably be too loud

[19:52:07]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: ok

[19:52:16]

iamlindoro_:

but an attic might be okay (lots of insulation, probably)

[19:52:20]

plb_:

i see tv wonders but not all in wonder

[19:52:29]

dustybin:

jeeze what kind of noise levels are there in a big data centre?

[19:52:37]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: hearing loss level

[19:52:44]

dustybin:

jeeze

[19:52:45]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: no joke, I had hearing loss after working in one

[19:52:50]

dustybin:

LOL

[19:52:52]

plb_:

http://gatos.sourceforge.net/supported_cards.php

[19:52:54]

dustybin:

fekkin heck

[19:52:54]

plb_:

hm

[19:52:56]

iamlindoro_:

It came back, thank god, but it was at that level

[19:52:57]

plb_:

maybe it will work

[19:53:06]

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[19:53:08]

iamlindoro_:

GATOS is deprecated IIRC

[19:53:32]

iamlindoro_:

I think the 8500 All in wonder is wayyyyy too new for those drivers, but hey, what do I know

[19:53:48]

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[19:53:49]

plb_:

it says it supported

[19:53:52]

plb_:

as of xfree 4.2

[19:53:53]

plb_:

lol

[19:54:00]

plb_:

and it was merged in xorg

[19:54:01]

plb_:

7

[19:54:11]

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[19:54:52]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: It won't work in myth without actual v4l drivers, FYI (I think GATOS isn't v4l2-complaint)

[19:55:21]

plb_:

will it work in something like tvtime?

[19:55:25]

iamlindoro_:

but it may be, I just haven't heard of anyone using GATOS in like forever

[19:55:54]

iamlindoro_:

"The GATOS drivers can not record with anything other than the

[19:55:55]

iamlindoro_:

TCL app by the authors."

[19:55:58]

iamlindoro_:

bummer

[19:56:16]

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[19:56:24]

SHADOW__X:

i am having an issue with my mythbox specifically one channel 31 if my digital tuners have the channel it records from them then if not it defaults to my box but for this one channel i cant get it to use the digital tuners when in mythweb settings i added it to the channel setup to use it as well

[19:56:24]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/27682

[19:56:38]

iamlindoro_:

Looks like no Myth (or other v4l programs like tvtime, etc)

[19:57:15]

plb_:

but that was in 2003

[19:57:39]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: they didn't rewrite gatos from scratch

[19:57:52]

iamlindoro_:

It's still got the same limitations

[19:58:28]

iamlindoro_:

GATOS is *old*, dude

[19:58:55]

iamlindoro_:

feel free to try it, though, no point wasting time in here *shrug*

[19:59:56]

plb_:

ya I'll give it a shot when I get it.

[20:00:24]

iamlindoro_:

plb_: Current Mythtv Docs:

[20:00:25]

iamlindoro_:

NOTE: The ATI All-in-Wonder cards (which are not the same as the ATI TV Wonder, TV Wonder VE or TV Wonder Pro) will not work as a MythTV capture device because the GATOS http://gatos.sourceforge.net drivers that are available provide only a limited subset of the V4L API. The TV Wonder series of cards are supported by the Bt8x8 Video4Linux driver.

[20:00:42]

iamlindoro_:

That is as up to date as it gets

[20:01:13]

plb_:

ah

[20:01:52]

plb_:

oh well imagine it will still function fine as a graphics card which is better than my ati rage 128 currently in the system lol

[20:03:08]

SHADOW__X:

anyone know why i would have that weird issue

[20:03:20]

plb_:

thanks iamlindoro_

[20:03:22]

iamlindoro_:

I think the Rage128 probably has better driver support than the 8500

[20:03:23]

plb_:

laters

[20:03:25]

iamlindoro_:

seeya

[20:03:27]

plb_:

heh

[20:03:35]

plb_:

maybe

[20:03:36]

plb_:

oh well

[20:03:41]

plb_:

see ya later

[20:03:42]

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[20:06:17]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: I'm not suggesting this exact thing, but you could get something *like* this and use commodity hardware if you wanted to http://www.rackmountmaster.com/cc-2130-17-7-2 . . . chassis.html

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[20:07:04]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: i like the look of that

[20:08:28]

iamlindoro_:

I have an antryway closet filled with junk right now, I may take a long weekend sometime soon and reroute power, data, and coax there, and rack up my stuff. Then probably switch to an RF remote so that it'll work from anywhere

[20:08:35]

iamlindoro_:

er entryeay

[20:08:38]

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[20:08:39]

iamlindoro_:

er entryway, darnit

[20:08:56]

dustybin:

iamlindoro_: ideally id like a case what can hold 5x disks

[20:09:07]

SHADOW__X:

only 5

[20:09:11]

iamlindoro_:

They definitely exist, just a bit more money

[20:09:17]

dustybin:

ok

[20:10:01]

dustybin:

maybe 3U or 4U

[20:11:09]

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[20:11:12]

kormoc:

dustybin, I have a atx half tower that's holding 7 drives

[20:11:28]

dustybin:

kormoc: bloody 'eck, what about heat?

[20:11:38]

SHADOW__X:

anyone with my recording issue

[20:11:39]

SHADOW__X:

?

[20:11:43]

kormoc:

2x120 mm fans keep it fairly nice

[20:11:58]

dustybin:

120's are nice

[20:12:10]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: Seeing as how people have only left and none have arrivd, I would guess the answer is "No, and stop repeating yourself." ;)

[20:12:31]

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[20:13:44]

SHADOW__X:

alright buddy thanks

[20:13:45]

SHADOW__X:

:D

[20:13:49]

iamlindoro_:

He

[20:13:50]

iamlindoro_:

h

[20:14:09]

iamlindoro_:

Anyway, It sounds like something small, sounds like channel or tuner priorities are messed up somehow

[20:14:27]

SHADOW__X:

thanks

[20:14:30]

iamlindoro_:

but I wouldn't know where to begin because it sounds like you've been fiddling

[20:14:45]

iamlindoro_:

look at all the various priority types, though, amybe something will jump out at you

[20:15:05]

iamlindoro_:

you may be going about it the wrong way, though

[20:15:24]

SHADOW__X:

right i am thinking that its soemething stupid though

[20:15:28]

iamlindoro_:

All you should need to do is have your cards set up, their various lineups set up on them, and then crank the tuner priority way up on the digital tuner

[20:15:54]

iamlindoro_:

Then it should *always* record on the digital when available, and resort to any other tuners as necessary

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[20:21:58]

SHADOW__X:

iamlindoro_ i got it

[20:22:02]

SHADOW__X:

it was something stupid

[20:22:27]

SHADOW__X:

and i was going about it wrong thanks

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[20:27:18]

iamlindoro_:

cool

[20:32:06]

leprechau:

kernel update...brb....

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[20:35:08]

dustybin:

when i redo my server, i think i might have a break from debian,

[20:35:11]

dustybin:

maybe gentoo this time

[20:35:22]

dustybin:

probably a bad idea... but it will be fun

[20:36:09]

iamlindoro_:

Maybe when I rebuild next I'll gut the HD-PVR and machine it in to a case :)

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[20:41:18]

selmanj:

dustybin: do you not like debian, or is it just to try somethign new?

[20:41:53]

dustybin:

selmanj: i do like debian a lot, its great for mythtv, but something new would be nice yes

[20:42:20]

selmanj:

dustybin: I was just curious as Debian was probably going to be my choice when I rebuild my box.

[20:42:24]

dustybin:

debian has a way of doing stuff its own way, id like to get away from that a bit and see some apps how they are supposed to be

[20:43:00]

dustybin:

selmanj: well debian is a good choice, debian lenny will be out in a few months

[20:43:12]

** selmanj has also been considering CentOS **

[20:43:13]

iamlindoro_:

Every distro does things its own way, you'll just be learning a new set of quirks

[20:43:13]

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[20:44:11]

dustybin:

selmanj: centos is a bit messy when it comes to repos

[20:44:16]

dustybin:

especially multimedia stuff

[20:44:22]

dustybin:

and rpm sucks

[20:46:11]

selmanj:

well, i usually build mythtv from source anyway

[20:46:16]

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[20:46:32]

dustybin:

the thing i like about gentoo, you dont have to worry about repos, EVERYTHING is accessable at a touch of a button

[20:46:35]

selmanj:

and rpms don't bother me, the package manager is usually what pisses me off

[20:46:38]

selmanj:

yum is nice though

[20:46:52]

selmanj:

yeah but you have to compile it all :/

[20:47:00]

dustybin:

indeed lol

[20:47:21]

selmanj:

i thought debian had a very large repository compared to most distros

[20:47:30]

dustybin:

i think debian is a really good choice

[20:47:30]

selmanj:

universe or multiverse or whatever its called

[20:47:42]

dustybin:

debian have a massive library

[20:48:08]

dustybin:

debian is a perfect choice for a home multimedia server

[20:48:23]

dustybin:

some of the packages are getting old but debian lenny will be released soon

[20:48:44]

dustybin:

and its not hard to compile the extra bits you need

[20:48:50]

EvilGuru:

dustybin: Or you could just use testing...

[20:48:57]

dustybin:

yep i am at the moment

[20:49:02]

dustybin:

Hostname: server – OS: Linux 2.6.24-1–686/i686 – CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 (3192.171 MHz) – Processes: 152 – Uptime: 32d 22h 29m – Load Average: 0.19 – Memory Usage: 386.55MB/1011.68MB (38.21%) – Disk Usage: 341.02GB/1363.24GB (25.02%)

[20:49:13]

dustybin:

thats running testing

[20:49:19]

** selmanj is running ubuntu **

[20:49:40]

selmanj:

wish i hadn't, im pretty comfortable with linux and it came with a lot of crap i dind't want

[20:49:59]

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[20:51:01]

dustybin:

i really dont see the point in running ubuntu when you could quite easily install a purist distro like debian

[20:51:14]

EvilGuru:

Less effort

[20:51:35]

dustybin:

apt-get install <-- thats the only effort required for debian

[20:52:15]

EvilGuru:

and emerge <foo> is the only work needed for gentoo

[20:52:21]

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[20:52:27]

dustybin:

aye true

[20:52:50]

dustybin:

EvilGuru: but some things require extra detail when setting up

[20:53:04]

EvilGuru:

Same with debian vs ubunut

[20:53:15]

dustybin:

hmm

[20:53:27]

dustybin:

ubuntu is ok for a desktop running some of the latest shit

[20:53:34]

dustybin:

but thats as far as i would go with it

[20:54:22]

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[21:06:49]

Dagmar:

Why don't ya'll just kiss and get it over with

[21:08:12]

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[21:11:54]

mindphlux:

hi, how can I instruct mythtv to add encrypted channels while scanning in mythtv-setup?

[21:12:40]

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[21:15:18]

iamlindoro_:

by unchecking "unencrypted channels only" in the channel scanner

[21:17:54]

mindphlux:

thanks

[21:17:54]

mindphlux:

got it

[21:18:56]

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[21:24:52]

SHADOW__X:

hey iamlindoro_ i would of never thought of unchecking that

[21:25:41]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: And you shouldn't, since you can't see encrypted channels and you'll find yourself deleting a bunch of channels :)

[21:25:42]

mindphlux:

iamlindoro: btw, I got my S2 device to work

[21:25:59]

iamlindoro_:

mindphlux: yeah, I saw, also in #linuxtv

[21:26:57]

SHADOW__X:

i am wondering if ondemand comes in more channels here than i have found

[21:27:24]

mindphlux:

tough thing

[21:27:42]

iamlindoro_:

SHADOW__X: It is randomized, and the PIDs disappear when the program requested ends, I wouldn't try to mess with that

[21:28:55]

SHADOW__X:

hmm yeah but i have reliably found 5 channels that i can easily find it on

[21:29:00]

SHADOW__X:

and just wait for it to tune

[21:29:30]

SHADOW__X:

like if go ondemand i will find it on one of thos e channels

[21:29:49]

iamlindoro_:

Must be on a not-very-busy node

[21:29:51]

SHADOW__X:

once i see the be code if filled i just have to wiat to lock the singal

[21:29:59]

SHADOW__X:

yeah that how it is here

[21:30:11]

SHADOW__X:

i also dont get bitched at for using up alot of bandwidth

[21:38:52]

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CoreDump|afk is now known as CoreDump

[22:01:03]

jmblack:

has anyone successfully complied mythmusic on win32? I seem to be running into a fairly basic build problem that I am unfortunately not farmiliar with ;) mythtv itself compiles and runs fine, works for what I need it to. as does mythcontrols and mythmovies.

[22:01:05]

jmblack:

http://pastebin.com/m1bd5ad12

[22:01:29]

Dagmar:

We don't do windows here.

[22:01:35]

jmblack:

fair enough

[22:01:51]

jduggan:

speak for yourself

[22:01:56]

jduggan:

i've installed a few of them

[22:02:01]

jduggan:

double glazed

[22:02:07]

Dagmar:

heh

[22:02:17]

high-rez:

Are those the argon filled ones?

[22:02:30]

jmblack:

Sence it was a build tools problem, and not really a compile issue I figured it may be a quick fix ;)

[22:02:37]

jduggan:

i dont know, i pirated them

[22:02:42]

jmblack:

but I also may be way off kilter

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[22:27:00]

jmblack:

ok, found the source of the pain, missing libcdaudio in win32, and it seems it doesnt yet exist. oh joy. At least I know why ;)

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[22:51:36]

iamlindoro:

Ooof, yay for degraded RAID

[22:53:19]

abqjp:

How many drives?

[22:53:33]

SHADOW__X:

what type of array

[22:54:15]

iamlindoro:

5, and no actual losses, just a blip AFAIK, but still going to resync

[22:54:17]

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[22:54:36]

iamlindoro:

for another 1000 minutes :)

[22:54:39]

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[22:54:52]

SHADOW__X:

software or hardware

[22:55:23]

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[22:55:35]

iamlindoro:

software, hardware raid is silly outside of very specific purposes (and mostly fakeRAID)

[22:56:12]

SHADOW__X:

yeah i am doing a hardware raid setup but this is going to be pushed hard

[22:56:22]

SHADOW__X:

unless i can get good sustained speed over network

[22:56:23]

iamlindoro:

pushed hard by what?

[22:56:35]

SHADOW__X:

multple users over gigabite

[22:56:53]

iamlindoro:

we are getting closer to you using correct terms like "gigaBIT"

[22:56:55]

SHADOW__X:

myabe its my current software raid on that computer but thats too slow for me

[22:57:06]

SHADOW__X:

gB better?

[22:57:15]

iamlindoro:

no, since that's GigaBYTE

[22:57:16]

selmanj:

key to fast raid: don't use raid 5

[22:57:37]

iamlindoro:

gB is totally WRONG w/r/t network speed, in fact :)

[22:57:48]

iamlindoro:

Gb/s is acceptable, however

[22:57:57]

iamlindoro:

or Mb, or Kb

[22:57:59]

SHADOW__X:

alright ill do Gb/s

[22:58:04]

iamlindoro:

thar ya go

[22:58:50]

SHADOW__X:

i know if you want speed dont use raid 5 but my other option is what raid 0+1?

[22:58:55]

iamlindoro:

anyway, what do you mean by "Multiple users of Gigabit," anyway? That's more than enough speed for any home or myth purpose

[22:59:37]

SHADOW__X:

hmm well on your raid 5 software can you do over 40MB/sec

[22:59:43]

iamlindoro:

Sure

[22:59:50]

kormoc_:

selmanj, my raid 5 is fairly fast. 40 MB/S write, 140 MB/S read

[23:00:00]

kormoc_:

and it's software

[23:00:06]

SHADOW__X:

hmm alright

[23:00:09]

SHADOW__X:

then maybe ill do that

[23:00:17]

SHADOW__X:

would help me save money

[23:00:31]

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[23:00:44]

SHADOW__X:

maybe my current system is slow because its software raid 5 on a pci board

[23:00:46]

SHADOW__X:

:(

[23:00:58]

selmanj:

it can only sustain one drive failure though, and uses more drives

[23:01:05]

selmanj:

(unless you set it up to use more)

[23:01:14]

kormoc_:

this is a 3 disk raid-5 with mdadm, 3x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

[23:01:25]

selmanj:

raid 1+0 is pretty great in my opinion

[23:01:27]

iamlindoro:

SHADOW__X: Are you using proper linux software RAID, or software -RAID-on-card, eg FakeRAID?

[23:01:38]

kormoc_:

selmanj, and you claim raid-5 uses more drives? :P

[23:02:23]

iamlindoro:

For straight up myth purposes, and streaming for five or six frontends, RAID 5/6 should be plenty fast IMO

[23:02:47]

selmanj:

sorry, i meant that raid 5 usually only allows one drive to fail, and hte more drives you use the more chance of failure you have

[23:03:01]

SHADOW__X:

this current raid 5 setup is in winslow

[23:03:08]

SHADOW__X:

windows xp

[23:03:13]

phunyguy:

i agree on raid 5

[23:03:28]

iamlindoro:

SHADOW__X: so, like using some proprietary RAID drivers then? Sounds like it's probably FakeRAID

[23:03:34]

phunyguy:

with raid 6 you have a hot spare, no?

[23:03:35]

kormoc_:

selmanj, sure, but say a 4 disk raid 5 with one disk as a spare, you can lose any two drives without any loss, raid 1+0, if you lose the same two drives on that mirror side, you lost all your data

[23:03:37]

SHADOW__X:

got 4x 500gb right now

[23:03:38]

phunyguy:

well

[23:03:42]

iamlindoro:

I think you will be happy with how well linux mdadm works

[23:03:50]

phunyguy:

in linux raid, you can specify how many drives to do what

[23:03:53]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, raid 6 uses two drives for parity

[23:03:54]

SHADOW__X:

i dont think it hitts over 20MB/sec read

[23:04:03]

phunyguy:

really?

[23:04:09]

SHADOW__X:

on my shitty setup yeah

[23:04:20]

Dagmar:

Something is worng with your machine for sure then

[23:04:33]

phunyguy:

hmmm

[23:04:38]

phunyguy:

yeah i was misinformed on that

[23:04:39]

Dagmar:

It should sure as hell outperform a single disk

[23:04:41]

SHADOW__X:

p4 3ghz 1 gig 2x 512 mb ddr ram p4p800 e delux board pci raid card

[23:05:09]

SHADOW__X:

hmm well if i could get THAT system working faster i would def do software raid for myth and my next server

[23:05:11]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, you should be getting much more, raid-5 is a fairly fast read and a costly write

[23:05:21]

SHADOW__X:

hmm alright ill look into it

[23:05:43]

selmanj:

kormoc_: What you said is true, maybe I am biased because everyone i know does like 6 disk raid 5s with no spares

[23:05:49]

phunyguy:

raid 6 perform slower then?

[23:05:53]

Dagmar:

Fuckn' call rattle. He'll know it

[23:05:55]

Dagmar:

wrong chan

[23:06:19]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, slightly slower then raid-5, yes

[23:06:25]

phunyguy:

hmm

[23:06:30]

phunyguy:

so raid 5 in his case would be better

[23:06:50]

phunyguy:

he doesnt really have to worry much about 2 drives failing

[23:06:51]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, slightly better, but only in transfer numbers

[23:06:55]

selmanj:

http://www.miracleas.com/BAARF/RAID5_versus_RAID10.txt

[23:07:00]

phunyguy:

which is the point of raid 6

[23:07:02]

selmanj:

a biased source, but still

[23:07:14]

phunyguy:

i would just do raid 5 with a hot spare

[23:08:11]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, why not a raid6? the hot-spare resync can trigger another drive failure...

[23:08:46]

phunyguy:

hardware or software?

[23:08:51]

kormoc_:

selmanj, they both have their places, but the real issue is people forget that RAID is not a backup

[23:09:08]

phunyguy:

is raid 6 possible in mdadm?

[23:09:10]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, doesn't matter. the massive resync stresses drives

[23:09:14]

kormoc_:

phunyguy, yes

[23:09:23]

phunyguy:

unless he is going hardware, i doubt he can do raid 6...

[23:09:26]

phunyguy:

oh ok.

[23:09:30]

phunyguy:

i did not know that either

[23:09:52]

SHADOW__X:

hmm well on this setup according to hd tune its hitting 47 testing it on the server

[23:10:06]

SHADOW__X:

ill test on another computer

[23:10:10]

SHADOW__X:

47 MB/sec*

[23:10:19]

SHADOW__X:

hmm maybe it was tanking when i am using the cpu

[23:10:22]

SHADOW__X:

:(

[23:10:26]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, dd if=/path/to/file of=/dev/null bs=1M

[23:10:35]

SHADOW__X:

sorry its in windows

[23:10:41]

kormoc_:

yeech

[23:10:44]

SHADOW__X:

yeah

[23:10:44]

SHADOW__X:

lol

[23:10:45]

phunyguy:

theres the problem!

[23:10:56]

SHADOW__X:

i may make my next server linux only

[23:10:59]

SHADOW__X:

havnt decided

[23:11:04]

phunyguy:

there is nothing to decide

[23:11:05]

phunyguy:

do it.

[23:11:09]

phunyguy:

pansy...

[23:11:09]

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[23:12:16]

SHADOW__X:

hmm

[23:12:25]

SHADOW__X:

there are alot of apps i use that are windows only though

[23:12:32]

SHADOW__X:

i have run a linux desktop for years

[23:12:39]

kormoc_:

Server apps?

[23:12:40]

SHADOW__X:

and had seperate servers

[23:12:49]

phunyguy:

http://appdb.winehq.org/

[23:12:53]

phunyguy:

..?

[23:12:55]

SHADOW__X:

but as my MAIN server i havnt transitioned yet

[23:13:01]

SHADOW__X:

yeah i know about wine

[23:13:05]

SHADOW__X:

yeah ill do it

[23:13:13]

kormoc_:

personally I find very few gui server apps

[23:13:16]

SHADOW__X:

whats the wrost that can happen i love the reliability

[23:13:19]

phunyguy:

is this is a server or a desktop?

[23:13:29]

phunyguy:

lol?

[23:13:38]

SHADOW__X:

the system with a software raid 5 is a server

[23:13:46]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, serving what?

[23:14:00]

SHADOW__X:

files and anyother process i through at it

[23:14:02]

kormoc_:

I'm curious as to what you are serving that's windows only

[23:14:12]

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[23:14:13]

SHADOW__X:

i burn alot of .dvd files

[23:14:18]

SHADOW__X:

dont know if clonecd works

[23:14:19]

** kormoc_ blinks **

[23:14:32]

kormoc_:

that's not what I consider a server

[23:14:45]

kormoc_:

Samba is for a file server, but burning dvds? that's much more of a desktop thing imho

[23:14:53]

phunyguy:

OK.

[23:14:57]

phunyguy:

install vmware?

[23:15:01]

phunyguy:

Xen?

[23:15:03]

phunyguy:

either one

[23:15:04]

SHADOW__X:

yeah

[23:15:04]

SHADOW__X:

true

[23:15:07]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, k3b works great for dvds and cds

[23:15:19]

SHADOW__X:

yeah i know but does k3b work with .dvd files

[23:15:20]

phunyguy:

or i have a 1 GHz PC next to my Linux machines that runs XP

[23:15:24]

SHADOW__X:

and handle layer breaks work

[23:15:25]

phunyguy:

for JUST IN CASE

[23:15:42]

iamlindoro:

all the .dvd file is is a tiny little text file that states the layer break

[23:15:45]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, what's s .dvd file? a standard image? likely does or there's conversion apps

[23:16:03]

iamlindoro:

kormoc_: It lives next to a .iso, all it does is say layer break = somesector #

[23:16:14]

kormoc_:

handle layer breaks work?

[23:16:26]

SHADOW__X:

does it handle layer breaks well

[23:17:15]

SHADOW__X:

also does linux have something close to logmein

[23:17:54]

iamlindoro:

VNC + dynDNS?

[23:18:02]

SHADOW__X:

alright that could work

[23:18:04]

iamlindoro:

or even better, ssh tunnel + VNC?

[23:18:07]

SHADOW__X:

yeah

[23:18:10]

SHADOW__X:

i like ssh

[23:18:57]

kormoc_:

if you can't do it headless, you shouldn't do it on a server imho :P

[23:19:31]

SHADOW__X:

oh boy

[23:19:49]

SHADOW__X:

listen so sorry i dont just run a webserver/mysql server

[23:19:54]

SHADOW__X:

i offload alot of work

[23:20:16]

iamlindoro:

SHADOW__X: Well, he makes a good point-- burning images is not remotely a server application

[23:20:25]

SHADOW__X:

yeah i agree

[23:21:13]

iamlindoro:

Also, the only thing I can think of that requires a fixed layer break is xbox images, and there are lots of howtos on how to burn those in linux in a few keystrokes

[23:21:16]

SHADOW__X:

would it be better to explain it as an extra desktop that doesnt have a monitor and only gets vnced in?

[23:21:23]

iamlindoro:

I'd love to know if there is anything but that that requires it

[23:22:01]

SHADOW__X:

mhm

[23:22:06]

kormoc_:

SHADOW__X, or you could just not bother attempting to justify your setup to a bunch of random people who you don't owe a thing to

[23:22:16]

SHADOW__X:

lol

[23:22:18]

SHADOW__X:

yup

[23:22:23]

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[23:22:45]

SHADOW__X:

but i would like the move to linux for my server so its fine

[23:22:50]

iamlindoro:

though there's no harm in hashing it out-- now you've learned that that part can be done in linux if you choose to do so, but I couldn't care less what others use :)

[23:23:17]

SHADOW__X:

yeah i mean if i can learn something out of it its fine

[23:23:28]

SHADOW__X:

if people are bashing just to be assholes then ya know

[23:24:56]

iamlindoro:

I think mdadm in linux has unbelievable power, it can take some reading to wrap your head around it, but once you've got it, you might wonder how you ever lived without it.

[23:26:24]

SHADOW__X:

hmm seems interesting

[23:26:46]

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[23:27:40]

iamlindoro:

There are probably more linux software RAID solutions out there in real enterprise situations than most of the *cough* "storage consultants" who implemented then would like to admit :)

[23:27:45]

iamlindoro:

er them

[23:28:40]

SHADOW__X:

heh thanks

[23:30:27]

famicom:

meh

[23:30:52]

famicom:

only reason i see not to use software raid but hardware

[23:30:57]

famicom:

is for i/o performance

[23:32:01]

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[23:34:45]

Dagmar:

If the machine is just a fileserver, it ain't gonna be hard for it to handle doing RAID 5 in software

[23:34:54]

Dagmar:

XOR is not exactly a computationally-intensive task.

[23:35:19]

famicom:

don't ask me

[23:35:30]

famicom:

I'm known to doing stupid shit

[23:35:50]

selmanj:

hardware raid cards usually have a pretty big cache

[23:36:10]

selmanj:

which is neat, but for file serving probably not necessary

[23:36:27]

SHADOW__X:

hmm true

[23:36:49]

SHADOW__X:

i mean if i can get over 40MB/s read and right i will be happy with software raid

[23:37:50]

kormoc_:

read, you better, write, likely around there

[23:38:31]

SHADOW__X:

doesnt it also matter on cpu or not really

[23:38:41]

SHADOW__X:

like having a dual core over single

[23:38:43]

SHADOW__X:

or no

[23:39:27]

kormoc_:

not overly, mine's a dual core box at 100% cpu usage 24x7

[23:39:31]

iamlindoro:

SHADOW__X: There will be some CPU use, but nothing truly stressful

[23:40:15]

SHADOW__X:

ah ok

[23:42:24]

iamlindoro:

Again for anyone who is a Joss Whedon (Buffy, Angel) fan, the second episode of Dr. Horrible's Sing along blog went online today at drhorrible.com.... they're really cute (and free)

[23:42:52]

iamlindoro:

Has Nathan Fillion from Firefly and Neil Patrick Harris in it if that's of any interest. Pretty funny, though

[23:49:38]

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