Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, May 29th, 2008, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:57]

directhex:

wifey's new monitor is rather nice

[00:02:42]

melunko_ (melunko_!n=hmelo@200.184.118.132) has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

[00:10:50]

dustybin:

how comes i havent got a wifey :(

[00:11:54]

Captain_Murdoch:

Sedorox, the .old are from mythtranscode renaming the original file instead of deleting it. There's a setting somewhere to tell it to delete the original file instead.

[00:12:16]

clever:

in mythtv-setup

[00:12:35]

dustybin:

clever: how is compiz-fusion + mythtv running these days?

[00:13:00]

directhex:

fine, other than missing window decorations

[00:13:03]

directhex:

same as last year

[00:13:25]

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[00:13:29]

clever:

dustybin: still works, most of the myth bugs metacity also causes

[00:13:38]

dustybin:

clever: You are a clever and resourceful man, Mr. Bond. Perhaps too clever.

[00:13:44]

clever:

i ticked the box in mythtv to run it in a windowed mode

[00:13:48]

clever:

now the deco is there allways

[00:14:23]

clever:

but it still repaints the xv color key with black randomly

[00:14:34]

clever:

and repaints on every focus change

[00:14:49]

clever:

but thats not because of compiz, it does it under metacity also

[00:15:07]

Dagmar:

So change the color key

[00:15:29]

directhex:

bedtime.

[00:15:36]

clever:

ive only seen how to change the colorkey in mplayer

[00:15:53]

dustybin:

clever: Do you expect me to talk? No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die...

[00:15:54]

clever:

and if i make the colorkey black then black objects over the mythtv window will turn transparent to the video&osd

[00:16:09]

Dagmar:

Here's a big hint for you

[00:16:20]

Dagmar:

No matter WHAT you do, you're going to have that problem.

[00:16:37]

Dagmar:

It's not a MythTV problem, it's an X problem..

[00:16:44]

clever:

the repainting in black?

[00:16:57]

clever:

or the overlay color in another window leaking thru

[00:17:09]

Dagmar:

If you don't like black, change the overlay color.

[00:17:29]

clever:

the problem is that it randomly paints real black instead of the color key

[00:17:37]

clever:

leaving me with a solid black mythfrontend window and no video

[00:17:47]

Dagmar:

So change it to a color you like

[00:17:57]

Dagmar:

It's still an X problem

[00:18:08]

clever:

i dont know where to change that black its repainting on its own

[00:18:15]

Dagmar:

google for xvattr

[00:18:19]

Dagmar:

Or search the wiki for it

[00:18:21]

clever:

id consider that a bug in something that keeps drawing over the color key

[00:18:36]

Dagmar:

Drawing over the color key?

[00:18:40]

clever:

yes

[00:18:51]

clever:

using compiz or a screenshot i can see when it works

[00:18:53]

Dagmar:

What is drawing over your color key

[00:18:55]

clever:

mythfrontend is a shade of blue

[00:19:01]

clever:

when i 'crash' it

[00:19:05]

clever:

mythfrontend is solid black

[00:19:12]

clever:

the colorkey is repainted with black

[00:19:20]

Dagmar:

STop using Compiz with it

[00:19:29]

clever:

metacity does the exact same thing!

[00:19:47]

Dagmar:

If I have to explain the difference between compiz and metacity to you, I'm wasting both our time.

[00:19:56]

clever:

i just shut off all effects

[00:20:01]

clever:

im now running in plain metacity

[00:20:13]

clever:

clever 6988 1.2 1.7 16480 9180 ? S 21:19 0:00 metacity --replace

[00:20:17]

dustybin:

dam i wish justinh was here right now, we could of witnessed a amusing quite message

[00:21:34]

clever:

http://gallery.clever.mine.nu:81/index.py/myt . . . nshot-22.png right now its 'working' and the real colorkey is drawn to the window

[00:22:04]

clever:

see that it looks like it should?

[00:22:20]

kormoc:

Dagmar, and clever goes on to prove his nickname is pure irony

[00:22:27]

Dagmar:

kormoc: I know

[00:22:33]

clever:

http://gallery.clever.mine.nu:81/index.py/myt . . . nshot-23.png now all i did was move the mouse

[00:22:39]

clever:

without clicking or changing any options

[00:22:43]

clever:

and the window turned solid black

[00:22:51]

Dagmar:

As many times as I have advised him to stop trying to make his installation as complex as possible, and he still doesn't listen.

[00:23:03]

clever:

im not using compiz at this instant

[00:23:16]

clever:

and i have the same problem on a system which CANT USE COMPIZ(crappy vid card)

[00:23:20]

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[00:23:28]

Dagmar:

So that sounds like you need to talk to the ubuntu people

[00:23:32]

sphing_:

I upgraded to .21 last night, and not my backend says nothing to record

[00:23:40]

dustybin:

clever: are you the guy who has 50+ boxes at home

[00:23:48]

clever:

<20 total:P

[00:23:52]

sphing_:

though I have recording schedules setup from before.

[00:24:02]

sphing_:

I've run mythtv-setup and it doesn't ask to update the schema

[00:24:10]

clever:

Dagmar: i'll find my gentoo livecd to proove you its not ubuntu:P

[00:24:20]

Sedorox:

Captain_Murdoch: thanks.. that would explain why there is some files there I thought I deleted...

[00:24:35]

Sedorox:

Captain_Murdoch: do you know is myth automatically expires shows when diskspace is low?

[00:25:01]

sphery:

sphing_: it only asks if you want to upgrade the schema if you're running in an interactive shell

[00:25:08]

Dagmar:

clever: Then it just might be that you keep trying to run it in windowed mode

[00:25:13]

sphery:

sphing_: i.e. if you start mythbackend using the init script, it won't ask

[00:25:22]

Dagmar:

Either way, there's *still* nothing we can do to help you

[00:25:31]

sphery:

sphing_: if you start mythtv-setup first thing, it will ask if you want to upgrade the schema

[00:25:34]

Dagmar:

...and you pulling out Gentoo isn't going to convince anyone of anything.

[00:25:44]

clever:

Dagmar: it also happens in fullscreen if i alt+tab

[00:25:50]

clever:

windows mode isnt the problem

[00:25:52]

Dagmar:

WHAT happens in full screen

[00:26:13]

clever:

if mythtv gains/looses focus(alt+tab in fs or moving mouse in windows mode with mouse focus)

[00:26:16]

clever:

it repaints the window

[00:26:16]

sphery:

sphing_: the best way to find out if it (attempted to) upgrade the schema is to check the log files. You can also check to see that there's a DB backup in the recordings directory.

[00:26:25]

clever:

and half the time it paints it black

[00:26:28]

Dagmar:

Then you're not running it in full screen

[00:26:34]

Dagmar:

You're just running it maximized

[00:26:52]

clever:

i'll go into the window size helper and reset it:P

[00:26:55]

Dagmar:

If you want it to behave like it does for us, I suggest you try letting it be the ONLY thing on the screen

[00:27:09]

Dagmar:

Then nothing will change focus and screw up the X server

[00:27:24]

sphery:

and don't run a multihead setup

[00:27:34]

clever:

mythfrontend segfaulted in the screen setup wizard:P

[00:27:41]

sphery:

(don't know if you are, but that also causes the issue you're seeing)

[00:27:43]

sphing_:

sphery, so I do see that it updated my schema this morning when I was messing with it

[00:28:03]

clever:

sphery: only 1 output posible on the laptop

[00:28:16]

Dagmar:

Joy. Integrated video chipset

[00:28:16]

clever:

ive yet to notice it on the dual head master which has it fullscreen on :0.1

[00:28:26]

clever:

i beleive all 3 laptops have the problem

[00:28:33]

Dagmar:

So file a bug report

[00:28:44]

sphery:

sphing_: That's a good thing. Now, we just have to fix the "nothing to record" issue. Could be because of several things. First, when you go to backend status page, how many capture cards does it show and does it show them as connected?

[00:29:00]

Dagmar:

sphery: I'm thinkin' charset change

[00:29:04]

clever:

i'll upgrade to head first to see if some1 has allready fixed it without telling you guys

[00:29:10]

Dagmar:

lol

[00:29:20]

Dagmar:

Yeah, upgrading to trunk always gets you more stable code

[00:29:23]

sphing_:

sphery, I was about to say it doesn't think I have any cards... let me post the error msg

[00:29:29]

clever:

im allready on trunk:P

[00:29:37]

sphery:

Dagmar: he's on trunk already

[00:29:40]

Dagmar:

Then stop bothering us with this madness

[00:29:41]

clever:

somewhere in the middle of qt4

[00:29:56]

Dagmar:

Go file bug reports

[00:29:56]

sphing_:

sphery, pretty standard error msg: Call to undefined function

[00:30:00]

sphery:

sphing_: that's what I figured. Here's the best fix: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[00:30:15]

sphing_:

ignore that error: wrong paste

[00:30:42]

sphing_ is now known as sphing

[00:30:58]

sphery:

sphing_: wait, so does it say that or not? If it just fails to show capture cards or it shows them as not connected, then do what's explained at the link I gave (delete all stuff)

[00:31:15]

sphery:

sphing: if it gives that error, you have an improperly-upgraded system.

[00:31:38]

sphery:

sphing: I'm thinking it just doesn't show cards or shows them as not connected (perhaps because your hostname or IP address changed during the upgrade)

[00:31:52]

clever:

Last Changed Author: nigel

[00:31:59]

clever:

Last Changed Rev: 17143

[00:32:06]

clever:

copyed the wrong line

[00:32:12]

sphery:

I can't believe they changed nigel. He was already good the way he was...

[00:32:27]

clever:

?

[00:32:50]

sphery:

nvm... creative interpretation of "Last Changed Author"

[00:33:31]

clever:

ah

[00:33:33]

sphing:

sphery, IP/hostname didn't change and yes it says I have no capture cards.... I'm nuking all my video sources and capture cards and starting new.

[00:33:55]

sphery:

sphing: Perfect. Should work.

[00:34:03]

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[00:35:23]

clever:

C libs/libmyth/mythcontext.cpp

[00:35:28]

clever:

oops, what did i doo

[00:36:01]

clever:

some1 reproduced a patch i made myself, but with diff wording

[00:36:21]

** kormoc claps for clever **

[00:36:33]

clever:

VERBOSE(VB_IMPORTANT, "Protocol version check failure. The response " "to MYTH_PROTO_VERSION was empty.");

[00:36:38]

clever:

VERBOSE(VB_GENERAL, "wtf no reply");

[00:36:44]

clever:

mine is less profesional:P

[00:36:55]

clever:

and mine doesnt return false;

[00:37:14]

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[00:37:51]

wagner:

is it possible to set up a machine with two independent terminals?

[00:38:08]

wagner:

ive got two monitors, two mice, two keyboards, can i use them independently?

[00:38:41]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[00:38:55]

Dagmar:

There's a couple of patches you'll need for X, but this has been done before, actually.

[00:39:12]

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[00:39:16]

wagner:

what about the local terminal

[00:39:24]

Dagmar:

clever: So, basically you're saying yours is about as wrong as it can possibly be.

[00:39:36]

clever:

it wasnt finished:P

[00:39:42]

wagner:

like something i would set in /etc/gettytab

[00:39:44]

Dagmar:

Then you shoudlnt' have submitted it yet

[00:39:48]

clever:

i didnt:P

[00:39:50]

Dagmar:

You only replaced one bug with three more.

[00:40:02]

clever:

i kept the patch local and never got arround to fixing it

[00:40:08]

Dagmar:

wagner: not going to happen

[00:40:22]

wagner:

serial terminals only?

[00:40:23]

Dagmar:

wagner: The console is _heavily_ tied up with being only one per machine.

[00:40:25]

clever:

and then a patch somebody else made conflicted with my own local change

[00:40:30]

Dagmar:

You can add serial consoles all you like.

[00:40:31]

wagner:

that sucks

[00:40:44]

clever:

wagner: you could run fullscreen xterms in seperate x's

[00:40:48]

dustybin:

wagner: http://linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html

[00:40:52]

clever:

which will appear nearly identical

[00:41:22]

sphing:

sphery, I just added a new capture card and backend still says no valid card, I just mysql and there is a row in capturecard table

[00:41:33]

sphing:

*just check mysql

[00:42:32]

Dagmar:

wagner: I suppose we don't have to tell you that following clever's advice is insanity, itself.

[00:42:52]

clever:

lol

[00:42:55]

clever:

its just an idea:P

[00:42:58]

wagner:

well considering he may have just botched the source tree, no

[00:43:00]

Dagmar:

It's a broken idea.

[00:43:28]

Dagmar:

He'd get the pain of configuring X for multi-seat, as WELL as the hassle of merely emulating a console.

[00:43:45]

wagner:

it seems i need one graphics card per seat anyway

[00:43:53]

Dagmar:

Yeah, well... one output anyway

[00:44:10]

wagner:

well ive got a dual output card

[00:44:11]

clever:

ive tried multiseat X before, and i can bearly get the 2 Xorg's going without bringing the box down

[00:44:24]

Dagmar:

I'm not 100% about whether or not one can get say, nVidia cards with two outputs to be accessed by more than one X, but it sounds unpossible

[00:44:25]

wagner:

but freebsd64 and nvidia dont play well together

[00:44:39]

clever:

i dont see how to get 2 Xorg's sharing a card

[00:44:41]

wagner:

i cant even get a single X server running, much less two completely independent ones

[00:44:57]

clever:

but using xnest(or a relative) you can have 2 'servers' inside a master which uses both heads

[00:45:09]

wagner:

the screen i want it to display on shows nothing, and the secondary shows garbage

[00:45:33]

Dagmar:

wagner: Perhaps it's time to join the rest of us in the 21st century and use Linux.

[00:45:56]

Dagmar:

clever: Again, a ludicrous suggestion

[00:46:00]

wagner:

yeah... no

[00:46:07]

clever:

its just one of the ideas i came across

[00:46:11]

Dagmar:

Stop taking drugs.

[00:46:18]

clever:

what i was planing was to have a 2nd pci vid card dedicated to qemu

[00:46:19]

dustybin:

LOL i was going to say that

[00:46:31]

Dagmar:

Drugs are not as cool as your friends have made them out to be.

[00:46:37]

dustybin:

lol

[00:46:55]

clever:

but even when i could get both X's up at once, i couldnt get it to tell my mice/keyboards appart to automaticaly tie them into the right xorg

[00:46:55]

dustybin:

clever: its not big, and its not *clever*

[00:47:19]

Dagmar:

clever: That's why you need patches like that website that was cited uses

[00:47:26]

Dagmar:

Oh, and a clue about how X actually works.

[00:47:36]

clever:

ive seen other pages explaining how to do it without patches

[00:47:46]

Dagmar:

Before 6.9 it required patches

[00:47:50]

clever:

one had a master xorg to hold tty7

[00:47:52]

Dagmar:

With 6.9 and above it requires clue

[00:47:59]

clever:

then 2 more which each use there own card and dont get a lock on the tty

[00:48:09]

clever:

and the vtswitching disabled

[00:48:18]

Dagmar:

Considering your track record, I'm not assuming for a moment you were even using X 6.9

[00:48:34]

wagner:

i think im using 7.3

[00:48:55]

clever:

X Window System Version 1.3.0

[00:49:09]

clever:

and thats after several rounds of apt-get dist-upgrade

[00:49:11]

Dagmar:

[00:49:19]

clever:

everything i did was way back on 6.06

[00:49:22]

clever:

im now at 7.10

[00:49:29]

clever:

and still way too old it seems:P

[00:49:51]

clever:

not even in the same country at 7.3

[00:51:07]

sphing:

sphery: relevant log: http://pastebin.com/m576238e5

[00:53:01]

sphing:

is it because the guid field is blank in the card setup?

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wagner:

i suppose theres no chance of getting nouveau working under freebsd

[00:57:17]

Zimans:

Quick question for the Mythtv Gurus. First my setup: I just recently moved the master backend to my file server. Before the master backend recorded to an NFS share to the file server mounted as /mnt/video. This was the one and only storage group for that backend. I recently shutdown that machine and started a backend on the file server to act as master. I reconfigured the master backend ip to that of the file server. I added

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wagner:

log question... you got cut off before you actually got to it

[00:57:53]

wagner:

s/log/long/

[00:58:03]

Zimans:

gah, I'll split it up

[00:58:19]

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[00:58:19]

Zimans:

Quick question for the Mythtv Gurus. First my setup: I just recently moved the master backend to my file server. Before the master backend recorded to an NFS share to the file server mounted as /mnt/video. This was the one and only storage group for that backend. I recently shutdown that machine and started a backend on the file server to act as master.

[00:58:33]

Zimans:

I reconfigured the master backend ip to that of the file server. I added a storage group /storage/video as that is the folder being exported by NFS. I have master backend override on. Now when I try to play a recording on my stand-alone FE, I get errors about not being able to find the file.

[00:58:35]

Zimans:

The quandry is that it is trying to open the file in the master backends storage group (/storage/video/1045_....) which obviously does not exist on the standalone FE. WHy is it not streaming it from the master BE?

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[01:02:06]

wagner:

s/log/long/

[01:02:11]

wagner:

whoops

[01:05:25]

Dagmar:

That's a little incoherent, but seems like you should be able to add a symlink so that the files just appear to be in the same place they were before

[01:05:41]

Dagmar:

Generally its' not a good idea to make things you've mounted under /mnt *permanent* arrangements.

[01:05:56]

Dagmar:

If you're going to mount something somewhere permanently, put it in a "normal" directory

[01:06:09]

clever:

i stick all my perm drives under /media/

[01:06:18]

clever:

dont know if its 'right' but it works for me

[01:06:33]

Zimans:

The file server keeps all video's in /storage/video. The slave backend had that folder mounted as /mnt/video

[01:06:49]

clever:

i try to keep all my paths matching between systems

[01:06:51]

Dagmar:

Yes, so add a symlink in /mnt named video which points to /storage/viedo

[01:06:57]

clever:

so /media/mainlv/ is mounted at /media/mainlv/ on every other box

[01:07:05]

clever:

that will confuse mythvideo less

[01:07:12]

Dagmar:

For once, clever is talking about something that is actually dead on the money.

[01:07:19]

Zimans:

So all machines need to have an identical file structure?

[01:07:31]

Dagmar:

No, but it saves a lot of hassle.

[01:07:51]

Zimans:

Why is the FE trying to play the file from it's local file system (different machine than the new master BE) instead of streaming it from the master BE?

[01:07:57]

clever:

most of my per host drives are in a path along the lines of /media/videos/`hostname`/

[01:08:11]

clever:

which makes it easy to figure out the hostname when doing a nfs mount

[01:08:21]

clever:

mount $1:/media/videos/$1/ /media/videos/$1/

[01:08:30]

clever:

then just run it thru every host i have

[01:08:43]

Zimans:

I only have one folder in the storage group. Only one machine stored files.

[01:08:57]

clever:

that works until you run out of ide ports:)

[01:09:27]

clever:

sata would also solve the problem until the case is overflowing

[01:09:55]

Zimans:

/storage is an 8 drive RAID5 array on SATA.

[01:10:04]

wagner:

actually, ive still got another four drive positions (and 2 5.25" bays) after i fill all my sata ports

[01:10:10]

Zimans:

but I'mstill baffled as to why the FE is trying to play tyhe file from it's local file system

[01:10:25]

Zimans:

and not stream it from the BE

[01:10:25]

clever:

theres a option in fe settings to allways stream

[01:10:47]

wagner:

i thought it always streamed regardless

[01:10:57]

clever:

running the files thru nfs has some minor problems, livetv murders the readahead buffer causing extra load

[01:11:05]

clever:

it will use the file localy if found

[01:11:06]

Zimans:

There's no entried in the BE log, it's not even trying to get the file from the BE

[01:11:38]

clever:

and my recordings&bin&lib are all on the same mount so my recordings are allways 'found localy'

[01:13:07]

Dagmar:

Zimans: They were on the local filesystem when they were recorded.

[01:13:17]

Dagmar:

Now they're not.

[01:13:19]

Dagmar:

Hint hint.

[01:13:24]

Dagmar:

Change the name of your frontend, for starters.

[01:13:27]

Zimans:

The FE has always been seperate from the BE

[01:13:33]

Dagmar:

I'm wagering that's one of the things screwing it up.

[01:14:26]

clever:

i allways update the hostname field in recorded when moving files

[01:14:38]

clever:

i made a php script to wrap that update and the mv call into a single command

[01:14:54]

clever:

i just tell it the source&dest host&path

[01:15:08]

clever:

aslong as nothing is using it, the thing works fine

[01:15:53]

Dagmar:

zimans: You managed to change something important.

[01:16:27]

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[01:16:29]

Dagmar:

...and if you've only got one backend, I've no idea what you were doing with the master backend settings.

[01:16:34]

Zimans:

I guess. But I'mnot getting any helpful error messages from the BE telling me it cannot find a file, just the FE going directly to the local file system.

[01:16:50]

Zimans:

I moved the master backend from one machine to another

[01:17:24]

clever:

ive tryed that before but ran into the problem where the master MUST have a capture card, but didnt know it at the time

[01:17:27]

clever:

i just moved it back

[01:17:30]

Dagmar:

Oh

[01:17:46]

Dagmar:

Going some googling, the frontend apparently looks at the local filesystem first

[01:17:57]

clever:

i allready said that

[01:17:59]

Dagmar:

It looks for the backend if it doesn't find a directory named that.

[01:18:21]

Dagmar:

...as in apparently if it finds the directory locally, it will look no farther.

[01:18:34]

Dagmar:

UNLESS you've enabled teh setting for "always stream"

[01:18:39]

clever:

ive abused that fact a few times

[01:18:56]

clever:

i had a fake /media/mainlv/mythtv/ localy with a copy of the file

[01:19:06]

clever:

so i could play it when my link to the master was 50kb/sec

[01:19:29]

clever:

once i cut the streaming out it runs somewhat ok over the web

[01:19:30]

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[01:19:45]

Dagmar:

Yeah, frankly I suspect NFS might be a faster/more_efficient solution than the myth:// protocol so it might be more useful to simply be mounting that filesystem

[01:19:59]

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[01:20:04]

clever:

nfs doesnt like livetv

[01:20:17]

clever:

every time mythbackend appends to the file, it trashes the clients readahead buffer

[01:20:31]

clever:

which causes extra strain, that most systems can handle

[01:20:42]

clever:

but weak wifi and 400mhz systems cant

[01:20:51]

Zimans:

There is no local directory........

[01:20:56]

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[01:21:10]

clever:

monitor the mythfrontend output to see what its opening

[01:21:25]

Zimans:

hrmmm.. Well, I gotta go (SUpper time). I'msure I'll be back later. Thanks for the help.

[01:21:55]

clever:

mythfrontend -v file i think

[01:22:28]

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[01:26:58]

clever:

yep -v file

[01:27:21]

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[01:27:25]

clever:

its spewing paths as it looks about for the recording:)

[01:28:11]

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[01:28:21]

sphery:

sphing: And you've connected a video source to one (or more) inputs on the capture card?

[01:28:51]

sphery:

sphing: also make sure that the user running mythtv-setup and mythbackend have permission to access the card device

[01:29:10]

sphing:

yup, nothing has changed since last night

[01:29:40]

sphing:

ill power downt eh cable box and let it reset and try again

[01:30:46]

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[01:40:21]

sphery:

sphing: Sorry, but I don't know anything about firewire, so I don't know what else to try.

[01:42:37]

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[01:43:36]

LabMonkey:

I'm getting static-y sound with certain videos in mplayer... any idea how to track down the codec that's fubared?

[01:44:29]

LabMonkey:

err

[01:44:35]

LabMonkey:

I say mplayer... I mean the Internal player

[01:45:16]

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[01:50:31]

kormoc:

??????????????????

[01:50:34]

kormoc:

erm... wtf?

[01:50:38]

kormoc:

try using mplayer?

[01:52:09]

LabMonkey:

nah, I disabled the "enable ac3 to s/pdif" and dts options

[01:52:12]

LabMonkey:

and it's ok now

[01:52:19]

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[01:52:22]

LabMonkey:

thanks though

[01:52:45]

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[01:59:39]

Dagmar:

spdif is fun when it makes lots of nice static

[01:59:57]

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[02:15:15]

LabMonkey:

well this x264 vid looks like ass

[02:15:20]

LabMonkey:

lots of artifacts and tearing

[02:15:53]

LabMonkey:

oh

[02:16:00]

LabMonkey:

hrm... it was the aspect ratio

[02:16:24]

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[02:16:43]

LabMonkey:

no, it's still doing it =\

[02:17:04]

LabMonkey:

oh well

[02:17:07]

LabMonkey:

I'll mess with it tomorrow

[02:20:03]

Dagmar:

Hey, at least it plays for you

[02:28:40]

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[02:35:42]

clever:

upgrading to trunk head hasnt fixed my xv problem but it hasnt made anything worse either(YET)

[02:36:20]

Dagmar:

I don't know why you think it would fix problems with Xv.

[02:36:56]

clever:

its not exactly xv thats broken

[02:37:03]

clever:

its the way mythtv is drawing the colorkey for xv

[02:37:04]

Dagmar:

Oh really? You're sure about that?

[02:37:20]

clever:

thats what it appears to be

[02:37:33]

Dagmar:

So, please describe what's wrong with the way Myth is "drawing the colorkey"

[02:37:35]

clever:

without further debuging of whats going between xorg<->mythfrontend i cant tell

[02:37:44]

Dagmar:

So basically, you're guessing.

[02:38:00]

clever:

mythfrontend has to draw a solid colored rectangle of the 'colorkey' thru x11

[02:38:01]

Dagmar:

You don't think you should maybe research how Xv works or what it's doing?

[02:38:09]

clever:

i know how xv works

[02:38:19]

Dagmar:

I doubt it.

[02:38:21]

clever:

it draws the colorkey to the window then pipes the video along a 2nd high speed channel

[02:38:38]

clever:

and if i draw the same color to other windows i can cut 'holes' in it and see the video behind it

[02:38:44]

Dagmar:

Then why were you puzzled about the paint-thru problem you described earlier?

[02:39:02]

Dagmar:

...because that's how Xv is *supposed* to work.

[02:39:04]

clever:

mythfrontend will on ocasion draw over its colorkey

[02:39:07]

clever:

and make the window real black

[02:39:16]

Dagmar:

And you're sure _mythfrontend_ is doing that

[02:39:34]

clever:

i could try a 3rd window manager

[02:39:42]

Dagmar:

What does a window manager have to do with it?

[02:40:05]

clever:

the problem is when mythtv gains/looses focus

[02:40:09]

Dagmar:

They don't draw inside of windows. They just decorate them and handle signals from the user that they want them moved.

[02:40:12]

clever:

which is controled by the window manager

[02:40:23]

Dagmar:

The window manager and X.

[02:40:41]

Dagmar:

...neither of which are MythTV.

[02:40:47]

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[02:40:59]

clever:

i'll try disabling focus on mouse

[02:41:07]

Dagmar:

That isn't going to do any good.

[02:41:19]

clever:

i suspect mythtv is reacting to the change in focus

[02:41:28]

clever:

and repainting itself thinking an alt+tab was just done

[02:41:37]

Dagmar:

Try this... Use *MPlayer*'s xv output for awhile and smack it around the same way you smack the mythfrontend window around.

[02:41:43]

Dagmar:

MythTV doesn't repaint itself.

[02:41:49]

Dagmar:

X apps draw in a region of memory.

[02:42:03]

Dagmar:

X handles whether or not they're displayed.

[02:42:04]

clever:

ive never had the problem on mplayer

[02:42:21]

Dagmar:

I can assure you the paint-thru problem exists with Mplayer also.

[02:42:26]

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[02:42:50]

clever:

i have a window stuck ontop of mythfrontend

[02:42:54]

clever:

with the real color key

[02:43:06]

clever:

so i can see that xv itself is still drawing video to the colorkey

[02:43:16]

clever:

now that ive triggered the bug

[02:43:26]

Dagmar:

That's not a bug.

[02:43:28]

clever:

the video is still moving in that area(which im forcing to the colorkey)

[02:43:34]

clever:

but mythfrontend is solid black

[02:43:37]

Dagmar:

It's a shortcoming resulting from using a color *key*

[02:43:49]

clever:

its failing to keep the key in that window

[02:44:02]

Dagmar:

It's not responsible for doing that.

[02:44:04]

Dagmar:

X is.

[02:44:14]

clever:

i'll just change the key to solid black

[02:44:16]

Dagmar:

It's X's job *not* to muck up buffered windows.

[02:44:19]

clever:

so when it screws up theres no change

[02:44:27]

Dagmar:

That might be a useable workaround.

[02:44:34]

whoDat_:

does anyone have channel changing working on a SA 4250HDC?

[02:44:38]

Dagmar:

I think X is just screwing up.

[02:45:15]

Dagmar:

Use strace or something to see what signals Myth gets when you move another window on top of it.

[02:46:09]

clever:

didnt think X used signals much

[02:46:17]

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[02:46:29]

Dagmar:

Never seen SIGWINCH before?

[02:46:38]

clever:

thats for when the terminal window changes size

[02:46:58]

Dagmar:

Yes, and it's your window manager and X that sends it.

[02:47:04]

clever:

thats between the term emulator and the tty layer->program

[02:47:16]

clever:

sshd can send sigwinch without x even being installed

[02:47:48]

clever:

and strace on x app's is a mess, its constantly calling the same 5 syscalls in a inf spam loop

[02:48:54]

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[02:50:01]

clever:

there got it cut down

[02:50:21]

clever:

its spewing a bunch of raw x11 protocol every time it gains/looses focus

[02:50:49]

clever:

and it got a SIGWINCH when i changed the size of its terminal window in screen(nothing to do with X)

[02:51:43]

clever:

using xev im able to sniff its events and have them formated:)

[02:51:43]

Dagmar:

Nothing to do with X...

[02:51:45]

Dagmar:

I'm done.

[02:51:49]

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[02:51:54]

clever:

screen is a 100% cli based app

[02:52:01]

sphing:

can anyone take a look this: http://pastebin.com/d46032a1e mythbackend isn't find my card after I upgraded to .21

[02:52:23]

clever:

FocusIn event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x1c00006,

[02:52:24]

clever:

FocusOut event, serial 13, synthetic NO, window 0x1c00006,

[02:52:55]

sphing:

my dct6200 is on: 0x19a6fffef1ff5f port: 0 node: 0

[02:53:54]

clever:

Dagmar: i see no signals at all when it gains/looses focus

[02:55:50]

clever:

but xev is catching keys, may help with my other keyboard based bugs

[02:56:23]

sphing:

test-mpeg2 gives me an mpg, so I know its working.

[02:57:14]

clever:

Dagmar: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGWINCH doesnt mention anything about xorg/x11

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clever:

nothing about the signal comming from xorg itself

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[02:59:44]

Dagmar:

sphing: Backup the database, go into mythtv-setup and delete all the cards, then re-add them.

[02:59:51]

sphing:

i already did

[02:59:52]

Dagmar:

Don't do this while mythbackend is running.

[03:00:07]

sphing:

hmm.. ok im not sure if I did it with the backend runnign

[03:00:09]

sphing:

I'll try again

[03:01:45]

Dagmar:

When you run mythtv-setup, pipe it's output to a log.

[03:02:13]

Dagmar:

Or check the mythbackend log from the first new startup. It'll probably say it was upgrading the database schema a few dozen times, ending with one that failed miserably.

[03:02:35]

sphing:

the schema update went fine in the backend logs

[03:04:07]

Dagmar:

If you can't add a new tuner and have the backend see it, then something's not going into the database when mythtv-setup tries to store it there.

[03:04:37]

sphing:

same thing: i deleted my card, source and input connections... verified it was gone from mysql

[03:04:52]

sphing:

then readded using mythtv-setup, verified it was there in the db

[03:04:57]

sphing:

same error

[03:04:58]

clever:

backup and drop the whole damn table

[03:05:15]

clever:

*whole damn db(

[03:05:15]

clever:

*

[03:05:28]

clever:

confirm its still broken on a totaly new database

[03:05:33]

sphing:

ok...

[03:06:11]

Dagmar:

Sounds like your install is just broken then.

[03:06:26]

clever:

that should proove if its some other setting your not forgeting

[03:06:50]

Dagmar:

So, now that you have a nice backup of the database... NUKE the mythconverg table and recreate it like from the installdocs with mysql < /path/to/mc.sql and then do mythtv-setup again.

[03:07:13]

Dagmar:

You don't really have to do much more than just drop the whole table afaik

[03:07:29]

clever:

Dagmar: i just said that:P

[03:07:34]

clever:

or do you have me on ignore?

[03:07:51]

Dagmar:

If it works from a _clean_ database, then we know the problem has got to be in the database you backed up and can now restore to beat on

[03:08:16]

clever:

your just repeating what i allready said with different words

[03:08:51]

sphing:

I dropped the db, and recreated it.. but I can't remember if the backend will create the schemas or if there is a sql file in the tarball somewhere

[03:09:19]

clever:

try feeding my.cnf into the mysql client like Dagmar said

[03:09:22]

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[03:09:42]

Dagmar:

What's the backend supposed to be creating?

[03:09:50]

sphing:

yea I did < mc.sql

[03:09:56]

sphing:

but there are no tables

[03:09:58]

Dagmar:

The mysql < /path/to/mc.sql creates the mythconverg stuff

[03:10:09]

Dagmar:

The backend just adds in the bits under that

[03:10:13]

clever:

mythtv-setup i think makes more missing tables

[03:10:27]

Dagmar:

erk /backend/mythtv-setup/;

[03:10:40]

sphing:

rgr.. I'll run setup

[03:10:44]

sphing:

thx aton btw

[03:10:48]

sphing:

*a ton

[03:11:19]

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[03:11:49]

Dagmar:

I'm going to stab this uPnP code right in it's eyes.

[03:12:16]

Dagmar:

Damn frontend is flatly refusing to put even a single uPnP packet on the network

[03:16:15]

sphing:

same problem!

[03:16:38]

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[03:19:06]

Dagmar:

sphing: Okay, that's sounding like the binaries you got are broken

[03:19:43]

sphing:

I'll rebuild

[03:25:04]

Dagmar:

Oh what the hell??

[03:25:17]

Dagmar:

Someone PATENTED a tool for sending raw upnp messages

[03:25:23]

Dagmar:

!@#$#!@$# http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7194689.html

[03:27:06]

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[03:27:11]

johnathan:

hello

[03:27:22]

wagner:

how do you patent an implementation of a standard?

[03:27:38]

johnathan:

can anyone help me with mythtv install?

[03:27:40]

wagner:

doesnt the fact that it is a standard denote previous work?

[03:27:47]

wagner:

what problem are you having?

[03:27:53]

johnathan:

i can't login

[03:27:57]

johnathan:

in

[03:27:58]

wagner:

to?

[03:28:04]

Dagmar:

wagner: Apparently you can when the patent examiner has his head up his ass

[03:28:09]

johnathan:

the database configuration

[03:28:37]

wagner:

are you trying to log into 'mysql', or are you using some external manager?

[03:28:37]

Dagmar:

wagner: No devices (both an Xbox360 and a PS3) can "see" the myth box.

[03:29:13]

johnathan:

i'm just trying to install it and no matter what i do i can't login in

[03:29:19]

Dagmar:

wagner: Even more infuriating, Myth can see the damn queries, but doesn't appear to indicate that it's sending any kind of response

[03:29:40]

Dagmar:

johnathan: You're trying to "login" to mysql how?

[03:29:49]

wagner:

Dagmar: is this an svn build? because i have it working fine in my setup

[03:30:07]

wagner:

johnathan: are you running 'mysql' from the command line?

[03:30:16]

Dagmar:

wagner: This is actually 0.21-fixes, r17388, but it's been going on for awhile now

[03:30:18]

Dagmar:

It *should* work

[03:30:36]

Dagmar:

I am having shit luck trying to debug what's going on in it tho'

[03:30:56]

johnathan:

no i'm trying through backend set up

[03:31:04]

Dagmar:

I keep hearing other people have it wokring fine, but no such luck

[03:31:08]

johnathan:

and it says can't login to database?

[03:31:23]

wagner:

ok, so 'mythtv-setup' is complaining that it cant logon

[03:31:26]

Dagmar:

johnathan: Did you create the database using the mc.sql file?

[03:31:51]

wagner:

Dagmar: yeah, im back at 16658

[03:32:15]

Dagmar:

wagner: That's not too far from what I was using before I thought updating to the latest 0.21-fixes might sort it

[03:32:23]

Dagmar:

This version *should* be able to do it

[03:32:31]

Dagmar:

It just quietly refuses to

[03:32:50]

johnathan:

how do i use the file? is there some i need to put in the termal?

[03:33:02]

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[03:33:22]

Dagmar:

johnathan: Epic fail. This is described in the installation documentaion, man..

[03:33:24]

wagner:

have you done anything from the command line with the 'mysql' command yet?

[03:33:42]

Dagmar:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html

[03:33:56]

Dagmar:

Specifically, section 6.2

[03:35:04]

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[03:35:40]

johnathan:

no i reconfigured it and stuff

[03:35:48]

johnathan:

but i guess i never set it up to begin with

[03:36:11]

Giskard_Reventlo:

hi. I'm trying to connect my opensuse 10.3 mythfrontend to my knoppmyth backend, but I think there might be a frontend-backend mismatch http://pastebin.com/m2b670878

[03:36:21]

Dagmar:

Yes, fail to perform step 6.2 and you'll have no mythtv mysql user, and therefore no worky

[03:36:33]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: if you think there is one, then there is one.

[03:36:37]

Dagmar:

You can't mix and match versions.

[03:37:00]

Giskard_Reventlo:

how do I find out which version of the backend is running?

[03:37:11]

Dagmar:

That's between you and your package management tool.

[03:37:28]

wagner:

Dagmar: well you can... but bad things tend to happen

[03:38:02]

Dagmar:

wagner: You wouldn't happen to know if the frontend is supposed to be broadcasting anything when it's not being prompted would you

[03:38:23]

Dagmar:

Like, the output from mythfrontend -v upnp looks like it's saying it's announcing it's presence

[03:38:25]

wagner:

broadcasting anything? such as?

[03:38:36]

Dagmar:

UDP packets to 255.255.255.255 for one thing

[03:38:54]

Dagmar:

It has definitely steadfastly never sent out any UDP broadcast packets

[03:39:21]

wagner:

my understanding of what is going on with upnp is limited to fuppes printing out other machines on startup

[03:39:30]

Dagmar:

fupppes?

[03:39:42]

Dagmar:

I have zero here. ANy little bit helps

[03:40:03]

wagner:

fuppes is a *nix upnp server

[03:40:30]

Dagmar:

It wouldn't happen to have a command-line tool with it would it?

[03:40:33]

wagner:

i installed it a few days ago as a replacement for mythvideo, since mythtv's implementation will not transcode on the fly

[03:40:41]

Dagmar:

If I could generate arbitrary uPnP queries this would go a lot faster

[03:40:41]

johnathan:

god its so hard lol... i donno whats going on!

[03:40:54]

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[03:41:05]

wagner:

not that i know of

[03:41:17]

wagner:

i just started up the server, and it listed active clients

[03:41:17]

Dagmar:

johnathan: Read this http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview

[03:41:17]

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[03:41:19]

Dagmar:

It will help

[03:41:36]

Dagmar:

Hell, I'll build fuppes then and see if it notices anything

[03:41:45]

Dagmar:

That's at least a starting point

[03:42:04]

wagner:

its listing a "MythTv AV Renderer" and two instances of a "MythTv AV Media Server"

[03:42:10]

wagner:

oddly, its also listing my printer

[03:42:17]

Dagmar:

Yeah, I don't see *jack* appear on the PS3

[03:42:44]

wagner:

i can attempt to turn my PS3 on and see if that shows up

[03:42:53]

wagner:

theyre supposed to have enabled WOL arent they?

[03:43:02]

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[03:43:47]

Dagmar:

Pfft. It needs sqlite but at least I have a package for Dropline of that that I should update

[03:43:58]

Dagmar:

wagner: Dunno. Never tried to wake up the PS3 remotely

[03:44:06]

wagner:

i dont seem to have a wol app installed

[03:44:22]

wagner:

well there is some form of WOL for the PSP Remote Play

[03:44:22]

Dagmar:

I'm definitely going to look into setting up the "play anywhere" stuff in the PSP/PS3 to make this easier

[03:45:55]

wagner:

well i attempted to wake it up, to no success

[03:46:03]

wagner:

or at least its not responding to pings

[03:46:18]

wagner:

to be honest, i dont know if it ever responded to pings (in firmware mode)

[03:47:34]

wagner:

anyway, dagmar, when i started fuppes, it gave me this... http://pastebin.com/d18477f25

[03:48:05]

wagner:

that was about 5 seconds after running the executable

[03:48:18]

Dagmar:

wagner: Thanks agian

[03:48:43]

Dagmar:

Until you pointed that one out, I had jack and squat but the extremely gnomic output of the PS3 to go on

[03:49:02]

wagner:

there is a debug mode, and its giving me a shitton of packet info

[03:50:14]

Dagmar:

Goddamn lamers portscanning my box

[03:50:44]

wagner:

if i actually checked my firewall logs, i would probably get the same

[03:50:58]

wagner:

i get a lot of brute force attempts over ssh

[03:51:07]

Dagmar:

Days like this I regret hanging up the black hat for hte white one

[03:51:14]

Dagmar:

I just got a *crude* brute force portscan

[03:51:42]

Dagmar:

Oh wait, that was @#$$ freenode

[03:51:56]

Dagmar:

I rather wish they would not do that to clients that have been connected for days and days and days

[03:52:04]

Dagmar:

Theres' just no point in it

[03:52:14]

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[03:52:55]

wagner:

i always hated when i used to have a dynamic IP

[03:53:14]

wagner:

and every so often, i would come across an IP that had been banned from some blacklisting service

[03:53:15]

Dagmar:

Hmm... Gnome panel applet

[03:53:25]

Dagmar:

That will bear closer looking into this weekend

[03:53:35]

wagner:

so i could no longer connect to any irc servers using that service

[03:54:19]

wagner:

well looking through the fuppes debug output, there just seems to be a couple packets from each device, repeatedly broadcast a few dozen times

[03:54:43]

johnathan:

do you have to have a tuner card to just watch shows on your computer?

[03:54:47]

wagner:

linking me to XML descriptions of the devices

[03:54:52]

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[03:54:53]

Dagmar:

johnathan: Short answer, yes.

[03:55:06]

Dagmar:

wagner: Hey, if I can get it to notice there's another machine on the network at all that'll be a win

[03:55:08]

wagner:

well a tuner card is the most basic function of mythtv, thats all it is there for

[03:55:24]

johnathan:

does a agp card work?

[03:55:29]

wagner:

if you just want to use mythvideo, there are probably better softwares available

[03:55:30]

Dagmar:

That's not a tuner card.

[03:55:35]

johnathan:

oh

[03:55:38]

wagner:

AGP is a graphics card, output, not input

[03:55:50]

Dagmar:

If all you want to do is watch videoes, there's about a hundred other things out there more suited for the task

[03:55:55]

wagner:

and if your graphics card has inputs, chances are that it is not supported under linux

[03:56:21]

johnathan:

well should i just give up on putting mythtv on my comuter and ust put it on my mod'd xbox?

[03:56:26]

wagner:

anyway, Dagmar, it linked me to ports 6544 and 6547 on my mythbox

[03:56:36]

wagner:

the page is /getDeviceDesc

[03:56:45]

wagner:

http servers

[03:57:59]

wagner:

i assume those ports should be the same on every installation, unless specifically changed in the settings

[03:58:11]

Dagmar:

Yeah

[03:58:23]

Dagmar:

You ran what command for that pastebin output?

[03:58:32]

wagner:

'fuppes'

[03:58:38]

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[03:59:11]

wagner:

and then 'l debug' puts it in debug mode

[03:59:19]

Dagmar:

*headdesk*

[03:59:24]

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[03:59:29]

Dagmar:

I wonder if I left freaking multicast support out of the damn kernel

[03:59:40]

Dagmar:

22:58:51.025387 IP (tos 0x0, ttl 1, id 0, offset 0, flags [DF], proto UDP (17), length 123) 10.3.1.2.44477 > 239.255.255.250.1900: UDP, length 95

[03:59:51]

Dagmar:

So at least I know that it can see what fuppes is saying. Now to start the frontend

[04:00:20]

wagner:

'm' will send out a request for available devices

[04:00:40]

wagner:

but unless youre in debug (or i guess extended) mode, you wont see anything

[04:00:44]

Dagmar:

OKay, it sees the thing

[04:00:49]

Dagmar:

That's at least a start

[04:01:03]

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[04:02:41]

wagner:

bah, i was just about to answer his question and he leaves

[04:03:04]

Dagmar:

Holy crap it actually responded

[04:03:27]

Dagmar:

It doesn't appear to have *said* anything back, but it responded

[04:03:41]

Dagmar:

thankyouthankyouthankyou wagner

[04:03:51]

Dagmar:

FINALLY I have some leverage on the problem

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[04:10:49]

orificium_mythbu:

IF I'm using a IGP with an 8xxx series video card, XvMC won't help me right? Or should I try to use it?

[04:11:10]

orificium_mythbu:

New nForce 750a chipset

[04:11:22]

orificium_mythbu:

Using 173.08 beta NVidia driver

[04:11:30]

Dagmar:

It shoudln't *hurt*

[04:11:35]

wagner:

the nvidia drivers should support that chip just fine

[04:11:41]

wagner:

but do you need XvMC?

[04:11:54]

wagner:

what is your processor? and what are you trying to watch?

[04:11:55]

orificium_mythbu:

I can't seem to get it to work anyway.

[04:12:14]

orificium_mythbu:

45W 8250e 2500+ AMD

[04:13:11]

orificium_mythbu:

sorry, 4850e

[04:13:19]

Dagmar:

HOw does it "not work"?

[04:13:23]

wagner:

so its 2.5GHz, not 2500+

[04:13:36]

orificium_mythbu:

yeah, sorry. 2.5Ghz

[04:14:03]

orificium_mythbu:

I'm just trying to tweak things a bit. Wasn't sure if using XvMC would help with lowering CPU usage

[04:14:06]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: By the way, 173.14.05 came out today.

[04:14:11]

Dagmar:

It generally will.

[04:14:19]

orificium_mythbu:

which is about 40–80% playing 720p videos

[04:14:22]

Dagmar:

It helps if you read the README for it so you learn to add "UseEvents" to your X11 config file

[04:14:33]

Dagmar:

It will only help with MPG video mind you

[04:14:33]

orificium_mythbu:

Dagmar: hm, nice. I'll have to try it out.

[04:14:40]

Dagmar:

x264 and so on, no dice.

[04:14:41]

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[04:14:45]

orificium_mythbu:

ok

[04:15:02]

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[04:15:08]

orificium_mythbu:

So, anything I'm getting off of the QAM256, it should help with, correct?

[04:15:19]

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[04:15:21]

wasabi:

Howdy. Trying to convert a frontend to point to a new backend. Can't even figure out where to configure the backend that the frontend points at.

[04:15:23]

wagner:

yeah, dual core 2.5GHz is more than sufficient for any broadcast mpeg2

[04:15:43]

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[04:15:43]

orificium_mythbu:

Yeah, taking the local HD channels from the local Comcast cable line.

[04:15:54]

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[04:16:12]

wagner:

you can mess around with XvMC if you want to try to cut your power consumption, but its not needed

[04:16:15]

Dagmar:

wagner: The 720p stuff can be pretty hungry

[04:16:24]

Dagmar:

My boss is/was doing it

[04:16:41]

Dagmar:

He was telling me UseEvents got his CPU usage down to about 30–35% from close to 80%

[04:16:43]

orificium_mythbu:

Anyone else try out the new AMD chipsets?

[04:16:45]

Giskard_Reventlo:

Hi. I'm trying to compile mythtv 0.20 on 64-bit opensuse 10.3 and got the following error during "make" that I dunno what to make of : http://pastebin.com/m6c78965c

[04:16:47]

wagner:

Dagmar: my 3200+ (single core 2GHz) does broadcast 720p mpeg2

[04:16:47]

orificium_mythbu:

780a?

[04:17:09]

wagner:

giskard_reventlo: why are you trying to compile 0.20?

[04:17:20]

Giskard_Reventlo:

couldn;t find binaries for that version

[04:17:23]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: 0.20 is ancient and not useful

[04:17:31]

Giskard_Reventlo:

yeah but my backend is 0.20

[04:17:37]

wagner:

so upgrade your backend

[04:17:38]

Giskard_Reventlo:

and upgrading it is a pain

[04:17:41]

Dagmar:

So your backend is grievously out of date as well

[04:17:54]

wagner:

0.20, not even 0.20.1?

[04:17:57]

Giskard_Reventlo:

It ran okay for months

[04:18:01]

MinDKrime:

I am still using .20 hehe

[04:18:04]

Giskard_Reventlo:

0.20.2 actually

[04:18:06]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: To put it bluntly, you have failed to install libdts.

[04:18:10]

Giskard_Reventlo:

k

[04:18:13]

Giskard_Reventlo:

installing...

[04:18:18]

Dagmar:

Don't tell Myth to try to compile support for it if you don't have it

[04:18:19]

MinDKrime:

oh 20.2

[04:18:43]

wagner:

thats right, .1 was an svn release, .2 was the release for schedules direct

[04:18:44]

wasabi:

so where do you configure the backend the frontend points at?

[04:18:56]

Giskard_Reventlo:

found it, instaliing libdts now (whatever the heck it is)

[04:19:10]

Dagmar:

Dolby patent-encumbered nonsense

[04:19:12]

Dagmar:

That's what it is

[04:19:22]

Dagmar:

It's crazy

[04:19:30]

wagner:

wasabi: they should just all point at the master backend shouldnt they? and then the master backend coordinates everything from there

[04:19:43]

wasabi:

Uh huh. And how do I configure it to point to a master?

[04:19:50]

wagner:

although i thought with 0.21 you didnt have to do anything, it configured itself automagically

[04:20:12]

Giskard_Reventlo:

what's this mean? "/usr/lib64/gcc/x86_64-suse-linux/4.2.1/../../../../x86_64-suse-linux/bin/l d: cannot find -ldca"

[04:20:27]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: It means you need libdca

[04:20:35]

Giskard_Reventlo:

thanks, installing

[04:20:51]

Giskard_Reventlo:

shouldn;t the configure script tell me these things?

[04:20:56]

Dagmar:

No.

[04:21:01]

Giskard_Reventlo:

:(

[04:21:04]

Dagmar:

You're expected to know what you're doing.

[04:21:17]

Giskard_Reventlo:

well then I'm screwed

[04:21:19]

wasabi:

wagner: Somewhere I need to enter the IP address of the backend... right?

[04:21:51]

Giskard_Reventlo:

wasabi: there is a dialog in the frontend settings that asks you for backend ip

[04:21:52]

wagner:

wasabi: no, i dont think so. you just point it at the mysql server, and it takes care of the rest

[04:22:00]

wasabi:

Ahh. Altering the mysql server setting has no effect.

[04:22:06]

wasabi:

Exiting the settings window says it can't find the master.

[04:22:12]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: This is what happens when you're trying to use somethign with a _zero_ as the first revision number.

[04:22:39]

Dagmar:

wasabi: Did you run mythtv-setup

[04:22:45]

wasabi:

On the backend, sure.

[04:22:58]

orificium_mythbu:

Why are there multiple .run packages on Nvidia's ftp for the beta driver

[04:23:03]

Dagmar:

Then in theory the frontend should be able to find the backend, IF the backend is running

[04:23:03]

GWillakers (GWillakers!n=dale@netblock-72-25-95-51.dslextreme.com) has quit ("Leaving")

[04:23:05]

Giskard_Reventlo:

too bad. I *could* upograde the backend, but that would mean upgrading the whole knoppmyth distro, and that's a huge mess. Given that I'll have to drag my monitor to the backend and my keyboard...

[04:23:15]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: I'm sure they don't have the same filenames. hint hint

[04:23:32]

Dagmar:

Don't use beta drivers unless you like pain or HAVE to hint hint

[04:23:47]

wagner:

giskard_reventlo: thats one of the downfalls of using a prepackaged build

[04:23:54]

orificium_mythbu:

yeah, they're numbered. What are you hinting at.

[04:23:55]

Giskard_Reventlo:

yeah

[04:24:00]

orificium_mythbu:

And, I have to use beta drivers

[04:24:02]

wagner:

dagmar: i believe support for that new chipset is only available in the betas

[04:24:06]

orificium_mythbu:

because my chipset is so new.

[04:24:14]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: Perhaps the higher numbered versions are newer.

[04:24:21]

orificium_mythbu:

Ah, ok.

[04:24:25]

Giskard_Reventlo:

well the compile seems to be chugging along so far...

[04:24:27]

Dagmar:

That kinda should have been obvious.

[04:24:28]

orificium_mythbu:

see,now you're making sense to me :)

[04:24:39]

wagner:

the compile on my machine takes an hour or so

[04:24:59]

wagner:

maybe not that long, but it was a long ass time

[04:24:59]

Giskard_Reventlo:

how long shuld it take in mine (Intel core2 duo+2 gb RAM)

[04:25:00]

orificium_mythbu:

they're all the same date, and same time

[04:25:05]

orificium_mythbu:

but numbered 0, 1, and 2

[04:25:09]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: God only knows

[04:25:23]

Dagmar:

There's NUMEROUS things that can affect the speed

[04:25:39]

Giskard_Reventlo:

yeah, like no dependencies

[04:25:40]

MinDKrime:

I think I will try centos this weekend

[04:25:49]

wagner:

disk access is just as important for building as processor speed

[04:25:56]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: Have you tried using their website to figure it out?

[04:26:00]

wasabi:

ahh i see

[04:26:04]

wasabi:

the backend detected it's ip wrong

[04:26:04]

Giskard_Reventlo:

I got sata and scsi hdds

[04:26:15]

Dagmar:

Ah crap their website is down for maintenance

[04:26:18]

orificium_mythbu:

Could compiling mplayer help with performance since I'm on 64-bit Mythbuntu?

[04:26:30]

wagner:

scsi drives?

[04:26:33]

Giskard_Reventlo:

yep

[04:26:35]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: highly unlikely

[04:26:35]

Giskard_Reventlo:

seagate

[04:26:45]

Giskard_Reventlo:

10,000 rpm

[04:26:47]

orificium_mythbu:

Dagmar: I thought maybe someone knew since you guys knew about the latest beta drivers.

[04:26:53]

orificium_mythbu:

that were released today.

[04:27:02]

orificium_mythbu:

I apologize for my laziness. :)

[04:27:09]

wagner:

well that will help considerably, its not so much disk transfer as it is access time

[04:27:12]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: Generally the page linked at the bottom of the non-beta drivers tells which ones are what

[04:27:26]

orificium_mythbu:

ah, I just navigated directly to the ftp site.

[04:27:27]

Dagmar:

wagner: don't forget filesystem caching

[04:27:35]

Giskard_Reventlo:

well I hope so. It's still chugging...

[04:27:38]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: That's kinda what I figured.

[04:27:43]

Giskard_Reventlo:

couple of warnings...

[04:27:47]

Dagmar:

Go through their website for this stuff when you can

[04:28:05]

Dagmar:

Unlike a lot of manufacturers, they actually DO put little hints on the websit as to which ones one should use and why

[04:28:12]

orificium_mythbu:

Yeah, I was considering setting up an xfs partition, heard it might improve performance.

[04:28:20]

wagner:

dagmar: file system caching is great and all, unless your build takes most of your memory

[04:28:21]

Dagmar:

No idea whether it will be hours or until morning before they get that back up

[04:28:40]

wagner:

when two threads of cpp are taking 400MB apice on a 1GB system, disk speeds really help

[04:28:41]

Dagmar:

wagner: this is why my devel box I use to build all the dropline stuff has an X2 3800+ and 2Gb of fast ram

[04:28:56]

Dagmar:

It can do Firefox in about 10 minutes flat.

[04:29:02]

Dagmar:

RAWR

[04:29:28]

wagner:

my laptop does it in like 5 hours (p3, 384MB, 5400rpm or raw power!)

[04:29:42]

wagner:

s/or/of/

[04:29:44]

Dagmar:

For a lot of the GNOME package building, the bottleneck is me looking up URLs, writing changelogs, and checking spelling.

[04:29:56]

orificium_mythbu:

what's a good file system type for storing video?

[04:30:23]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: This is actually argued to death and pretty well explained on the wiki for Mythtv but it amounts to XFS or JFS for most people

[04:30:32]

Dagmar:

Definitely NOT ext3

[04:30:38]

sphing_:

Dagmar, no change same error

[04:30:40]

wagner:

since its streaming, and large files, typically one that deletes well and not prone to fragmentation

[04:30:47]

Dagmar:

I'm using JFS

[04:30:48]

wagner:

so like dagmar said: xfs or jfs

[04:30:49]

orificium_mythbu:

yeah, I'm just storing everything in /home which is ext3

[04:30:59]

Dagmar:

sphing: God has it in for you tonight, eh?

[04:31:04]

sphing_:

haha yea I guess

[04:31:12]

Dagmar:

I got nothing if starting over didn't work

[04:31:20]

Dagmar:

All I can say for now is "revert, revert!"

[04:31:26]

wagner:

speaking of which, i need to pull everything off my backend and reformat it

[04:31:33]

orificium_mythbu:

You guys ever see LinuxMCE?

[04:31:43]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: You will be VERY unhappy when you see what happens when you try to delete just one 2Gb file on an ext3 filesystem.

[04:31:56]

Dagmar:

The machine will basically do NOTHING but journal that deletion for a full second or more.

[04:32:04]

Dagmar:

Hello mysterious system halts!

[04:32:16]

orificium_mythbu:

Hm, sounds like I better set up that partition sooner than later. gparted should work right?

[04:32:29]

Dagmar:

You should use something other than ext3

[04:32:31]

wagner:

dagmar: wait until you try a 20Gb ATSC movie

[04:32:38]

Dagmar:

wagner: Don't even want to think about that

[04:32:43]

Dagmar:

That's why I went with JFS.

[04:32:51]

sphing_:

dagar, now portage is giving me errors... haha, this is awesome

[04:32:54]

Dagmar:

No strange extents issues like with XFS

[04:32:55]

orificium_mythbu:

Lemme wiki that.

[04:33:04]

Dagmar:

sphing: Check the machine for mice.

[04:33:21]

wagner:

i dont have anything set to record until saturday, i think ill reformat now

[04:33:50]

orificium_mythbu:

Saturday? Isn't Lost on sooner than that.

[04:33:52]

Dagmar:

JFS is growable

[04:33:59]

Dagmar:

I'm not sure if XFS is

[04:34:07]

Dagmar:

One or both of them isnt' shrinkable, but who does that

[04:34:10]

orificium_mythbu:

said it's not shrinkable on wikipedia

[04:34:15]

Dagmar:

BUY MOAR DISKS I always say

[04:34:21]

wagner:

Lost? hasnt that lost all sense of creative direction?

[04:34:25]

MinDKrime:

centos do cfs?

[04:34:28]

orificium_mythbu:

I've got a couple 500GB drives. thinking about putting together a raid-5

[04:34:31]

Dagmar:

wagner?: They're still looking for the plot

[04:34:43]

orificium_mythbu:

What's on Saturday?

[04:34:47]

wagner:

well it is... lost

[04:34:48]

orificium_mythbu:

since we're picking on shows.

[04:34:55]

Dagmar:

Doctor Who is on Saturday

[04:34:59]

orificium_mythbu:

bah

[04:35:03]

orificium_mythbu:

crap

[04:35:04]

orificium_mythbu:

:)

[04:35:07]

wagner:

quigley down under

[04:35:09]

orificium_mythbu:

Actually, I can't get into it.

[04:35:13]

orificium_mythbu:

Love sci-fi though.

[04:35:21]

Dagmar:

I've been watching that show since I was little bitty

[04:35:23]

orificium_mythbu:

Battlestar Galatica, Seen all STargates...etc

[04:35:29]

MinDKrime:

dr who isgreat...

[04:35:33]

Dagmar:

I managed to keep up with BSG this season

[04:35:37]

orificium_mythbu:

I love british stuff too.

[04:35:39]

MinDKrime:

can't wait

[04:35:44]

Dagmar:

Last season I missed two episodes and had NO idea what the blistering hell was going on.

[04:35:45]

wagner:

i still havent seen the first season of BSG

[04:35:49]

orificium_mythbu:

but Dr. Who is ******* cheesy.

[04:35:55]

wagner:

ive got all four seasons recorded and sitting on my hard drive

[04:35:59]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: It's always been that way

[04:36:16]

orificium_mythbu:

I know.

[04:36:25]

Dagmar:

THey could spend four billion on special effects and scrimp on writers, or get good writers and use rubber suits.

[04:36:43]

orificium_mythbu:

A friend was having me watch a recent episode, and I couldn't believe it's still the same cheesy productions.

[04:36:56]

Dagmar:

You remember what killed Farscape, right?

[04:37:02]

orificium_mythbu:

Money?

[04:37:04]

Dagmar:

Special effects budgets.

[04:37:07]

orificium_mythbu:

because farscape looked badass.

[04:37:10]

Dagmar:

More than any other show in history.

[04:37:22]

orificium_mythbu:

Man I miss farscape.

[04:37:34]

Dagmar:

They spend not just metric fscktons, but great robust imperial fscktons on that

[04:37:54]

wagner:

'yeah, were cancelling your show'... 'oh shit, we have to wrap up in the next three episodes'

[04:38:00]

Dagmar:

The president of the Sci-Fi channel was pretty clear about it

[04:38:07]

sphing_:

!seen Cardoe

[04:38:07]

MythLogBot:

Cardoe was last seen 41 days 14 hours 54 minutes 52 seconds ago

[04:38:13]

orificium_mythbu:

...peacekeeper wars.

[04:38:16]

Dagmar:

It was their "South Park" but there was no way to keep affording the effects budget

[04:38:35]

sphing_:

does Cardoe not maintain the ebuilds for portage anymore?

[04:38:44]

orificium_mythbu:

So how long has Dr. Who been on? Since the 60s?

[04:38:54]

Dagmar:

Hell, since TV has been around as far as I know

[04:39:05]

Dagmar:

There's some REALLY beat-up black and white ones of that first doctor

[04:39:48]

wagner:

one of the 'features' of the doctor is that he has 13 lives

[04:39:51]

Dagmar:

1963 wikipedia says

[04:39:57]

Dagmar:

wagner: They've blown that out I think

[04:39:59]

wagner:

so they can bring in 13 different actors before they have to cancel the show

[04:40:05]

Dagmar:

It was originally 12

[04:40:24]

Dagmar:

...and at one point they were more or less saying that The Master was actually the Doctor's 13th regeneration

[04:40:25]

orificium_mythbu:

where are they at now?

[04:40:46]

Dagmar:

Ten, if you ONLY count TV

[04:41:11]

orificium_mythbu:

you guys like red dwarf?

[04:41:17]

Dagmar:

Sort of.

[04:41:26]

MinDKrime:

not seen

[04:41:33]

Dagmar:

It's okay but I would rather think of the universe as not being populated by a bunch of idiots and jackasses

[04:41:35]

wagner:

its cute, but it gets old

[04:41:44]

wagner:

kind of like MST3K

[04:41:58]

Dagmar:

The peoples on that show, in all honesty, could really not have developed terrestrial flight, let alone space flight.

[04:42:01]

Giskard_Reventlo:

well it now says ../../libs/libavcodec/libmythavcodec-0.20.2.so: undefined reference to `dts_init' but I have libdts and libdts-devel installed

[04:42:15]

wagner:

theyre not supposed to have

[04:42:19]

wagner:

he was a janitor

[04:42:34]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: Eventually you will realize you need to use *one* set of binaries built by other people on all the machines you want this on

[04:42:39]

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[04:42:43]

orificium_mythbu:

yeah, it's supposed to be quite ridiculous.

[04:42:50]

Dagmar:

wagner: I'm not talking about just the janitor

[04:43:05]

wagner:

well the others were a robot and a vampire

[04:43:07]

bsdfox_:

off topic.. anyone know how I would specify which directories gcc will check for header files? especially when cross-compiling

[04:43:11]

orificium_mythbu:

Cat vampire

[04:43:13]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: Thjis is not something someone with zero experience just figures out in an hour or two

[04:43:23]

Dagmar:

AND you're using an old version of the source as an added handicap

[04:43:25]

wagner:

cat vampire, my mistake... what do you expect out of it

[04:43:45]

Dagmar:

bsdfox: The standard include paths. :)

[04:44:10]

Giskard_Reventlo:

Dagmar: That's true

[04:44:24]

Giskard_Reventlo:

but what choice do I have?

[04:44:52]

Dagmar:

Giskard_Reventlo: To install the same precompiled setup on all your machines.

[04:45:03]

Dagmar:

Let me be honest with you

[04:45:15]

Dagmar:

I've been using Unixes and Linuxes for over 20 years.

[04:45:22]

Giskard_Reventlo:

Dagmar:That's a good idea

[04:45:30]

Dagmar:

I've been building machines and rebuilding odd machines from the ground up for more than ten

[04:45:39]

Giskard_Reventlo:

unfortunately, I can;t get opensuse rpms for 0.20 mythtv anywhere...

[04:45:41]

Dagmar:

It STILL took me two whole nights to get the damn thing running on the first try

[04:45:50]

Giskard_Reventlo:

dagmar:yikes

[04:45:56]

Dagmar:

This is *not* a simple program

[04:46:00]

orificium_mythbu:

I've got a pcHDTV-5500 card now. But I want additional tuners. I'm thinking the HDHomeRun. Seems to be a popular choice.

[04:46:09]

califdreas:

yeah, some people are just slow.

[04:46:42]

orificium_mythbu:

I wonder how the channel switching is. Seems a bit slow now on the pchdtv card.

[04:46:46]

Dagmar:

califdreas: Dude it only took me four hours to figure out how to compile Mozilla 1.2 from source

[04:47:00]

Dagmar:

maybe that was 1.0.2 actually

[04:48:00]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: Channel swithcing is always going to be slow by most people's standards just because of the way encoder cards for

[04:48:03]

Dagmar:

s/for/work/;

[04:48:11]

califdreas:

well, good job, Dagmar. I never got any mozilla build right. settled for rpm's instead.

[04:48:20]

Dagmar:

Now, if you supply the thing with two extra dedicated tuners you can get around that...

[04:48:23]

Dagmar:

hehe

[04:48:24]

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[04:48:43]

orificium_mythbu:

two more PCI tuner cards?

[04:48:46]

wagner:

dagmar: channel switching is always going to be slow by most people's standards just because the mythtv devs decided they need a 2s buffer for livetv

[04:48:52]

Dagmar:

Sane software architects would take a poke at me for even suggesting that

[04:49:23]

Dagmar:

wagner: No, just because it takes a non-trivial amount of time for the encoder buffers to fill and start emitting frames

[04:49:24]

orificium_mythbu:

seems like 5s

[04:49:34]

Dagmar:

You can reduce the size of the buffer

[04:49:43]

orificium_mythbu:

Where is that setting?

[04:49:59]

Dagmar:

I dont' even remember anymore

[04:50:02]

wagner:

well im saying that in combination of the switching time, they wait for a 2s buffer

[04:50:15]

wagner:

ive never seen any setting of that sort in the setup

[04:50:21]

wagner:

if it is there, its a define in the code

[04:50:24]

Dagmar:

After awhile you just stop "browsing" channels hoping something worth watching is on

[04:50:45]

orificium_mythbu:

yeah, I mostly schedule and/or download

[04:50:54]

Dagmar:

wagner: Justinh *might* remember and or know about where it's gone off to

[04:51:03]

wagner:

well using a DVR is certainly a different way of watching TV

[04:51:08]

Dagmar:

...or you could get lucky and see something interesting in the MythWeb page for the settings

[04:51:23]

wagner:

perhaps it was a setting available before i started using mythtv (0.18)

[04:51:24]

orificium_mythbu:

I wonder if Torrentocracy still works.

[04:51:27]

Dagmar:

wagner: i like to look at it as giving me back about 25% of my TV watching time

[04:51:45]

Dagmar:

orificium_mythbu: That's like wondering if a man who was just savaged by 10,000 crows still lives

[04:51:50]

Dagmar:

Lawyers got them, and rightly so

[04:52:05]

orificium_mythbu:

Come on.

[04:52:20]

orificium_mythbu:

It seemed like such a beautiful program

[04:52:26]

orificium_mythbu:

I never got a chance to use it.

[04:53:37]

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orificium_mythbu:

wine channel on freenode? let's hope so.

[04:59:44]

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[05:05:04]

wagner:

damned desktop

[05:05:13]

wagner:

i really need to get it repaired

[05:05:25]

wagner:

the motherboard has been bugged since i got it three months ago

[05:05:34]

wagner:

memory controller is bad or something

[05:05:47]

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[05:05:53]

wagner:

i have it have it significantly underclocked, or else it heats up and barfs

[05:05:57]

nomin:

is there a free tv guide available anywhere?

[05:06:09]

orificium_mythbu:

titantv

[05:06:29]

tank-man:

nomin, i use zap2xml

[05:07:18]

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[05:07:38]

orificium_mythbu:

tank-man: without schedulesdirect?

[05:07:49]

Anduin:

$20/year is virtually free

[05:07:52]

nomin:

tank-man: does that one have descriptions?

[05:08:17]

orificium_mythbu:

hm

[05:08:31]

orificium_mythbu:

Yeah, I just subscribed to schedules direct

[05:08:37]

orificium_mythbu:

didn't know you could scrap tv listings for free.

[05:08:41]

orificium_mythbu:

scrape

[05:08:53]

orificium_mythbu:

it's it only 6-hours ahead?

[05:08:57]

tank-man:

i think most shows have no descriptions

[05:08:57]

orificium_mythbu:

is it rather.

[05:09:09]

tank-man:

just title and subtitle

[05:11:40]

nomin:

I want to know what is on tv shows that day. For example, when comedy central has a guest on, I want to know who that guest is. I don't need to know whether or not it's colbert or the daily show, I want to know what's on that episode.

[05:11:54]

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[05:22:51]

sphing_:

Dagmar: Interestingly after I reverted the binary but not the sql, it gave me the same error message "no valid capture cards"

[05:23:08]

sphing_:

reverting the sql fixed it, though I think its curious

[05:23:40]

sphing_:

is anyone using firewire with .21?

[05:25:19]

xris:

trunk from about when .21 was released

[05:26:41]

sphing_:

in mythtv-setup are you able to enter the guid for the box?

[05:31:30]

xris:

usually you just pick it from the list

[05:31:36]

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[05:34:00]

sphing_:

yea, my list is empty

[05:34:05]

sphing_:

i can't pick from the list

[05:41:50]

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[05:48:05]

sphing_:

xris: could this have anything to do with the fact that I don't run mythtv-setup on the backend? I run it from the frontend and LostHostName in mysql.txt

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[05:53:17]

MaverickTech:

good afternoon

[05:53:37]

MaverickTech:

does anyone know if it is possible to restore more than 1 recording at a time in MythArchive ?

[05:54:47]

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[05:57:21]

Giskard_Reventlo:

Hi. I just installed mythfrontend and am trying to connect to a remote backend server, but it keeps giving me this error: http://pastebin.com/m6deff96a

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[06:02:16]

xris:

sphing_: setup needs to be run on the machine that you're setting up.

[06:02:19]

tank-man:

looks like lirc problem

[06:02:31]

xris:

if you run it on a different machine, it's like setting up a secondary backend there.

[06:02:45]

xris:

just ssh into the backend with X forwarding and run it from there

[06:04:11]

sphing_:

xris: that was it

[06:04:28]

sphing_:

i thought that changing the mysql.txt

[06:04:45]

sphing_:

did the setup for the box

[06:05:27]

sphing_:

Dagmar's going to have a good laugh

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[06:10:47]

wagner:

well it used to, but its completely ignoted in 0.21 isnt it?

[06:11:12]

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[06:11:18]

sphing_:

i was about to say I did it for .20.2

[06:13:38]

xris:

sphing_: you shouldn't need mysql.txt anymore.

[06:13:42]

xris:

it's all done via upnp

[06:15:00]

wagner:

is config.xml just a backup in case the upnp fails?

[06:15:56]

sphing_:

hmm...

[06:16:07]

sphing_:

well in any case... its working now

[06:17:16]

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[06:18:29]

Dagmar:

Man, I knew *something* was going on

[06:19:34]

Dagmar:

I've been watching Comcast hand out excessively short lease times all day (sub 2000s) and now I'm on some netblock so new the whois on this box refuses to admit it's a valid IP

[06:19:36]

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[06:20:15]

sphing_:

Dagmar, did you see my comments?

[06:20:29]

wagner:

are you given external IPs? or some internal address space that gets translated on their end?

[06:20:39]

Dagmar:

(scrolls up)

[06:20:43]

xris:

wagner: yeah.. backup/cache

[06:20:46]

xris:

and used by the perl stuff

[06:20:54]

Dagmar:

Oh. So you basically rolled back both the DB and the binaries

[06:21:10]

sphing_:

basically, I was running mythtv-setup on a different box

[06:21:21]

Dagmar:

wagner: I woulnd't have their service if I only got private address space out of it

[06:21:24]

sphing_:

I thought changing the mysql.txt would work like it used it

[06:21:41]

sphing_:

xris informs me its all uPnP now

[06:21:45]

Dagmar:

This is the first time I've seen an address of 98.193.189.x on Comcast

[06:22:02]

sphing_:

so that explains it

[06:22:07]

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[06:22:07]

xris:

sphing_: there is still some legacy support for mysql.txt

[06:22:15]

Dagmar:

sphing: Yeah, which is why I've been gnashing my teeth about the PS3 not being able to see teh myth box

[06:22:21]

Dagmar:

I know at least *part* of it is working

[06:22:36]

sphing_:

sure, but its not hostname stuff anymore

[06:22:42]

Dagmar:

Ah

[06:22:45]

sphing_:

since it looks like it scans the firewire bus for the guid

[06:23:08]

Dagmar:

Well, yeah 'cuz that's how you address firewire devices

[06:24:12]

sphing_:

right, but this is the first version that scans, before you would specify the node/port

[06:24:55]

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[06:25:00]

justinh:

hahaha "I quit, unless I can get some help!". SEEYA

[06:25:17]

sphing_:

in any case thanks Dagmar and xris

[06:28:28]

** justinh chuckles at the use of a 'digital converter box' with mythtv **

[06:28:46]

justinh:

man, I really should stop dipping into that -users mailing list

[06:29:51]

wagner:

96 of 208GB transfered... almost halfway

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[06:37:12]

wagner:

justinh: you mean... an external ATSC tuner to a video capture card?

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[06:44:56]

wagner:

112GB done

[06:46:42]

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[06:54:10]

justinh:

wagner: yep

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[06:55:02]

wagner:

so $60+ on a box, rather than <$50 on a tuner

[06:55:19]

Dagmar:

OH

[06:55:19]

Dagmar:

The place to adjust the size of the ringbuffer is in mythtv-setup now actually, first item, a few screens in

[06:55:19]

Dagmar:

Default appears to be 9400, reducable to 4700

[06:55:58]

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[07:32:29]

wolfx:

getting "failed to connect to mysql database" when trying xbmcmythtv. any thoughts?

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[07:33:28]

wolfx:

i'm able to connect from my laptop with mysqladmin, so seems like remote connections are ok

[07:34:00]

tank-man:

wolfx, on your backend, try copying one of my-examples.cnf to /etc/my.cnf if you dont have it

[07:35:20]

wolfx:

my-examples.cnf?

[07:36:23]

tank-man:

does the file "/etc/my.cnf" exist? if it does , my suggestion probably wont help

[07:36:42]

wolfx:

doesn't exist

[07:37:07]

adante:

uh, aren't the cnf files for the serverside only?

[07:37:15]

directhex:

yes, they are

[07:37:43]

directhex:

and he never checked about the distro – given debianish systems use /etc/mysql/my.cnf

[07:38:04]

directhex:

and blithely rewriting the my.cnf file is probably ill-advised

[07:38:05]

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[07:38:07]

directhex:

s/probably //

[07:38:12]

tank-man:

i couldnt get xbmcmythtv to work till i copied one of the following "my-huge.cnf, my-large.cnf, my-medium.cnf, my-small.cnf" to /etc/my.cnf

[07:38:52]

justinh:

been ages since I looked under rocks to find newer xbmc binaries

[07:40:52]

wolfx:

you're saying just drop it in /etc? are these files prepackaged?

[07:41:28]

** directhex again says "stop", but just fixing bind-address is obviously a bad bet compared to massive unknown config files **

[07:41:34]

directhex:

shine on, you crazy diamond

[07:41:40]

wolfx:

as directhex referenced, i have my.cnf in /etc/mysql

[07:42:11]

wolfx:

and i already commented out bind's to 127.0.0.1

[07:42:20]

tank-man:

yea so my suggestion of creating it wont help

[07:42:20]

wolfx:

s/i/i\'ve

[07:42:23]

directhex:

and restarted mysql?

[07:42:30]

wolfx:

yes

[07:42:43]

justinh:

maybe there are still privileges issues then

[07:42:52]

directhex:

or maybe xbmcmythtv is broken again

[07:43:07]

justinh:

ahh so many unknowns. it's good to know where you stand

[07:43:08]

wolfx:

i'm able to connect with mysqladmin with mysql/mysql

[07:43:16]

directhex:

have you tried just connecting on the command line from a different pc?

[07:43:46]

justinh:

chances are if you just have a standalone myth box you've not given mysql users permission to log in from external machines

[07:44:19]

wolfx:

haven't done the command line, but using mysqladmin on my laptop

[07:44:20]

justinh:

... which is pretty much the root of *every* problem with mysql accesses on external mythboxes

[07:44:58]

justinh:

there is also the debian-ish mythtv mysql account password randomiser to take into account

[07:45:33]

directhex:

and your laptop you can connect as the mythtv user?

[07:45:39]

wolfx:

yep

[07:45:49]

wolfx:

changed the random password to mythtv, mythtv/mythtv connects fine

[07:46:00]

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[07:46:08]

wolfx:

can see mythconverg and everything

[07:46:14]

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[07:46:23]

directhex:

then xbmcmythtv is probably broken again

[07:46:24]

justinh:

well, at least you seem to have your brain screwed in

[07:46:31]

directhex:

of course, xbmc supports myth directly these days

[07:46:40]

justinh:

anyway I thought there was no need for xbmcmythtv now

[07:46:53]

justinh:

thought they'd thrown 'native' support in there

[07:46:55]

wolfx:

*blinks*

[07:46:55]

tank-man:

orly

[07:47:02]

justinh:

RLY

[07:47:11]

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[07:47:13]

justinh:

you can has miffyteevee on xbmc!

[07:47:27]

directhex:

it crashes pretty quickly, of course

[07:47:30]

wolfx:

where@?

[07:47:33]

justinh:

wif no messy pyfon scripties!

[07:47:34]

directhex:

but that's xbmc for you

[07:47:52]

justinh:

where? fuck knows

[07:48:00]

justinh:

under some rocks somewhere, as usual

[07:48:11]

directhex:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Xbox_Fro . . . thTV_Support

[07:48:36]

justinh:

see nobody seems to want to admit building xbmc & putting binaries out so you have to look in warez holes

[07:48:45]

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[07:48:59]

justinh:

that *might* have something to do with the fact you need stolen software to build it with, though

[07:49:18]

tank-man:

might? of course it is

[07:49:42]

directhex:

justinh, apparently they're making decent progress with xbmc on linux & osx

[07:49:46]

justinh:

wonder whatever happened to the effort to make an open XDK

[07:49:50]

wolfx:

*tries this out*

[07:49:52]

directhex:

justinh, and those build WITHOTU teh hax

[07:49:56]

justinh:

directhex: yeah I've tried it on linux

[07:50:03]

directhex:

justinh, opensdx has no c++ support

[07:50:09]

directhex:

xdk

[07:50:13]

justinh:

last time though, you still needed the leet binaries

[07:50:30]

directhex:

how did xbmc build, anyway? mplayer is terribly gcc-only

[07:50:56]

justinh:

followed some instructions – pretty much a no-brainer

[07:51:18]

directhex:

i tried building mplayer with ICC once

[07:51:32]

justinh:

I say no-brainer.. it wasn't much effort for me

[07:51:46]

justinh:

no more difficult than building mythtv from source

[07:52:16]

justinh:

couldn't get it to build on dapper. feisty was ok though

[07:52:37]

justinh:

and on an 800mhz athlon it was awfully slow compared to on the xbox

[07:53:04]

justinh:

50% CPU usage just sitting there with the rss scroller ticking away

[07:53:22]

justinh:

but then, that's sdl for ya

[07:53:31]

directhex:

pfft

[07:53:41]

** directhex rewrites xbmc to use Clutter **

[07:54:04]

justinh:

am I the only person who sees clutter as some transient fad?

[07:54:52]

directhex:

it will pass, but it's excellent for proof-of-concept ui design

[07:55:07]

directhex:

but the people using clutter are easily distracted by shiny things

[07:55:50]

justinh:

ooooo teh shineys!

[07:56:36]

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[07:56:56]

directhex:

clutter makes it trivial to make a whizzy-looking app

[08:01:00]

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[08:01:25]

justinh:

I wonder why clutter gets more press than pigment though

[08:02:16]

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[08:02:50]

directhex:

because people hate fluendo?

[08:02:58]

directhex:

because there are better proof-of-concept apps?

[08:03:00]

directhex:

take your pick

[08:07:09]

wolfx:

well, appreciate the help, guys. hopefully this fixes things up. if not, i'll be back tomorrow ;)

[08:07:11]

wolfx:

g'nite

[08:07:15]

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[08:07:38]

justinh:

ahh didn't realise pigment was all fluendo's doing

[08:12:57]

justinh:

http://macslow.thepimp.net/clips/gdm-face-browser-2.ogg – clutter in capable hands

[08:15:29]

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[08:17:05]

willcooke:

Emma's hot

[08:18:45]

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[08:22:17]

directhex:

justinh, yeah, but the point is, that all comes pretty much for free with clutter. it does all the heavy lifting, so you don't have to]

[08:22:28]

directhex:

of course, all the funky libs are for glib/gobject

[08:22:49]

directhex:

partly because it's easier to fuck with a non-threadsafe c lib like gtk

[08:26:38]

justinh:

I expect it's still easy to make gash interfaces with clutter though, just like with anything else

[08:30:18]

justinh:

arghgh if I get one more box given to me by a manager who's fucked it up...

[08:30:34]

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[08:30:35]

justinh:

they can't even get a simple thing like FTP'ing a few files right. arseholes

[08:32:02]

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[08:33:52]

directhex:

well, yeah, clutter makes it easy to make shit

[08:36:48]

justinh:

hmmm then again if a manager can screw up a unit as royally as this I fear customers doing their own upgrades are gonna be boned. ha ha

[08:37:32]

justinh:

used to be a case of upload a big zip file, reboot the unit. unit detects there's a new file, unzips it & upgrades itself. now.. oh dear God

[08:38:34]

justinh:

they can't even mount a CD from the bootloader. stupid ecos

[08:39:31]

justinh:

and the one guy who knows these boxes inside out is on holiday. oh well

[08:39:35]

justinh:

back to looking busy

[08:41:17]

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[08:42:14]

Dagmar:

Jesus

[08:42:27]

Dagmar:

Someone named an interface toolkit *clutter*?

[08:42:40]

Dagmar:

Don't walk away from it. RUN.

[08:42:53]

justinh:

maybe they're being ironic

[08:43:37]

Dagmar:

It would be like renaming PHP officially to Preposterosly Horrid Programming

[08:44:05]

justinh:

it's all the rage down in Digg land

[08:45:14]

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[08:46:02]

justinh:

oh what the hell was I thinking putting symlinks in themes?

[08:46:26]

justinh:

looks like there's some cleaning up to do

[08:46:31]

justinh:

s/some/a lot

[08:46:43]

Dagmar:

Use tar.

[08:46:54]

Dagmar:

--dereference-symlinks or somesuch

[08:47:12]

justinh:

I'd rather get rid of the need for them

[08:47:14]

Dagmar:

Actually just --dereference

[08:47:15]

Dagmar:

Ah

[08:47:29]

justinh:

so bye bye fleximage="yes" throughout

[08:47:41]

justinh:

I hope that concept is in the bin for mythui

[08:47:56]

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[08:58:06]

justinh:

bleugh! I forgot how much I hate pooptoobs

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[09:51:25]

jduggan:

pooptoobs?

[09:52:05]

justinh:

aye. pooptoobs and pooptoobs-wide

[09:52:10]

jduggan:

aha

[09:52:12]

jduggan:

i like

[09:52:17]

jduggan:

cept memory usage

[09:52:25]

jduggan:

:P

[09:52:32]

justinh:

memory is dirt cheap

[09:52:38]

jduggan:

true

[09:52:41]

jduggan:

but im even cheaper

[09:52:42]

jduggan:

:\

[09:55:53]

justinh:

oops. WARNING: REMOTE HOST IDENTIFICATION HAS CHANGED!

[09:55:53]

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[10:00:59]

willcooke:

justinh, are your ssl certificates 0wned?!

[10:02:42]

justinh:

nah

[10:03:32]

justinh:

I don't allow automagical logins anyway

[10:12:19]

willcooke:

Oh – there's a thing – in the dvb-s tuning menu it asks you to enter a frequency in kHz – whereas I think it's actually entered in Hz. Is that a theme thing?

[10:12:39]

justinh:

nope

[10:12:58]

justinh:

I think it's the other way round too

[10:13:13]

willcooke:

ok – I'll double check my findings and submit a patch using my leet coding skills

[10:13:41]

willcooke:

Once theres more than 4 digits in a number I get confused between K's M's and G's

[10:22:58]

justinh:

I wish the setup menus were themable though. or rather I used to :)

[10:24:03]

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[10:25:00]

directhex:

i wish the setup menus could enforce wizarding – i.e. "thou shall not do step 5 until step 4 was completed properly"

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[10:26:25]

justinh:

they do their best though

[10:26:54]

justinh:

all those little warnings – users still ignore them. bless

[10:27:06]

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[10:27:07]

justinh:

"ARE YOU SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING?" ;)

[10:28:47]

willcooke:

:-D

[10:29:26]

justinh:

"Dave, if you delete that channel, livetv will no longer work because that was the last tuned channel"..

[10:30:01]

directhex:

justinh, leaving the sanity checking until the end is bad though. it should prevent access to steps that haven't been completed and sanity checked

[10:30:35]

justinh:

bah. let stupid users be stupid users & pay their own price

[10:33:00]

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[10:36:37]

Solv:

yes, i have paid a hefty price many times

[10:37:11]

Solv:

"ooo, it's warning me not to try that unless i know what i'm doing"..."I wonder what will happen"

[10:38:16]

directhex:

but it's not smart though, is it. try to quit because something's fucked, and you get all the "are you sure? it's fucked! i can fix it, honest" popups. if i obviously haven't done all the steps, then don't bother even trying to clean up – keep the backend disabled

[10:38:30]

justinh:

bloody hell that can't be right. I work more than 5 miles away from the nearest Tesco. how the hell did tat happen?

[10:39:21]

justinh:

tbh directhex I don't think many people really give a shit about people who can't put 2 & 2 together

[10:39:30]

Dibblah:

Has anyone tried to get permission from Google for scraping showtimes?

[10:40:08]

Dibblah:

I've been looking round recently for a contact, but shockingly enough, 'it's good to talk' is not their motto ;)

[10:40:23]

Dibblah:

Their voicemail is even unfriendly :(

[10:40:25]

justinh:

google, they're the ones who live in that big bunker somewhere

[10:40:37]

directhex:

justinh, if mythtv-setup were smarter, then at least it would eliminate the number of people who come in here with half-finished backend configs

[10:40:52]

justinh:

guns could eliminate those people

[10:40:56]

Solv:

Dibblah, you could ask the guys who do 'shepherd' for australia

[10:41:12]

Solv:

copy their code and adjust it for wherever you live

[10:41:27]

Solv:

i'm sure it's open source

[10:41:29]

justinh:

Solv: for mythmovietimes

[10:41:34]

Solv:

oh

[10:41:35]

purserj:

and watch the lawsuites fly

[10:41:37]

directhex:

or allow the backend to start, in an explicit "i am not configured" state, so frontends can say "the backend on $HOST has not been fully configured, please configure it"

[10:41:53]

purserj:

considering icetv down here just lost a big case about copying timetables

[10:42:05]

justinh:

directhex: now you're just talking about designing stuff instead of not caring

[10:42:18]

directhex:

justinh, aye

[10:42:28]

directhex:

justinh, if this were a cold uncaring world we'd still be using VDR

[10:42:28]

justinh:

works for me (tm)

[10:42:46]

Solv:

yeah but shepherd gets it from such a wide variety of sources....and many that are actually setup for XMLTV format...ie to be read from

[10:42:58]

tank-man:

Dibblah, why would you need permission to scrape a website?

[10:43:09]

justinh:

tank-man: terms & conditions !

[10:43:10]

Dibblah:

tank-man: Uh... Huh.

[10:43:23]

Dibblah:

Because otherwise, you're breaking copyright law.

[10:43:38]

justinh:

like it or not, you are indeed :)

[10:43:55]

tank-man:

like how theres a copy in your browser cache?

[10:44:04]

Solv:

depends on if the website publishing the data copyrights it

[10:44:09]

justinh:

caching is allowed on the basis that it's temporary

[10:44:12]

Dibblah:

Solv: No, it does _not_.

[10:44:41]

Dibblah:

Please, feel free to read some stuff about it. ;)

[10:44:42]

Solv:

Dibblah, some websites that publish data are happy for it to be copied...take in point oztivo

[10:44:49]

purserj:

Solv: copyright is automatic in many countries

[10:44:55]

purserj:

you don't have to apply for a copyright

[10:44:58]

Solv:

Dibblah, please feel free to stop being a smartarse

[10:45:00]

Solv:

i know

[10:45:02]

justinh:

some sites are banking on revenue gained from people seeing & clicking on ads

[10:45:16]

justinh:

scraping kind of cuts out all the ads

[10:45:28]

Dibblah:

Like... Ooooh, Google. For example.

[10:45:55]

justinh:

like google movie times searches have convenient buttons for you to book seats

[10:45:55]

Dibblah:

The only reason they do showtimes is because of the ads at the side of the page.

[10:46:14]

Solv:

the whole copyright thing is bullshit...it annoys the crap out of me...I hate talking about it...it gets me angry

[10:46:16]

justinh:

they don't do it just to feel good about themselves!

[10:46:30]

Dibblah:

Solv: So make your own stuff for people to steal.

[10:46:36]

justinh:

"oh we can make money by showing people movie times? COOL!"

[10:46:43]

Solv:

Dibblah, don't get me started

[10:46:49]

Solv:

and i do make my own stuff

[10:46:51]

justinh:

information == money

[10:47:01]

Solv:

and 'share' it

[10:47:06]

tank-man:

they can try to make money, doesnt mean i have to view the ads

[10:47:11]

Solv:

yeah....

[10:47:25]

justinh:

tank-man: but if you scrape the site you're bypassing them completely

[10:47:31]

justinh:

anyway it's a moot point

[10:47:31]

Dibblah:

They only make money because people _do_ view the ads.

[10:47:45]

justinh:

IMDB don't like being scraped, nor do google. nor do yahoo!

[10:48:08]

tank-man:

yes they might not like it, they can try to block it too, but its not illegal

[10:49:34]

justinh:

if they get revenue for a certain amount of images viewed... it's doing them out of income. and if you produce code which allows users to violate the T&Cs of their site, they might just bring their grievance to you

[10:50:04]

justinh:

so you can forget all your prissy 'muhhh, it's all fweee' bullshit & get into the REAL world now

[10:50:43]

justinh:

maybe it's an area SD could look into...

[10:50:59]

purserj:

tank-man: if you're using someone elses material without permission it is illegal, that is the nature of copyright

[10:51:06]

justinh:

I bet local movie listings are something TMS provide too

[10:51:40]

justinh:

oh but then in the US there are sites which don't mind being scraped (yet)

[10:52:18]

tank-man:

i live in canada and have had a professor give an assignment that involde scraping a website and said its legal

[10:52:40]

justinh:

it's always legal if it abides by the providers terms & conditions

[10:54:59]

justinh:

http://www.out-law.com/page-3398 – ooh scraping prohibited by court order...

[10:56:32]

tank-man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping from this link, it seems like companies are fighting hard to make it illegal but its not

[10:56:37]

Solv:

someone on the shepherd mailing list gave a good suggestion about avoiding the problem altogether...lobby the government to enforce as part of the broadcasting license that the broadcaster provide non-copyright XMLTV epg data to the citizens of their country

[10:56:56]

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[10:57:00]

justinh:

Solv: all the broadcasters give out the information freely

[10:57:15]

justinh:

the problem comes in when collating it & distributing it is involved

[10:57:16]

Solv:

justinh, well obviously not copyright free

[10:57:25]

justinh:

somebody has to do it, somebody has to host it

[10:57:32]

justinh:

it's not 'free'

[10:57:42]

Solv:

sure, well what do the ads on free to air tv pay for?

[10:57:55]

justinh:

airtime

[10:58:12]

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[10:58:29]

justinh:

so you end up with a bunch of information for loads of different channels, all in different places. yay

[10:58:34]

Solv:

true...and i'm sure they could fund the insignificant amount to host epg data on a website that is already funded by other advertising and people go to for other reasons than just guide times

[10:58:52]

justinh:

which radiotimes.com in the UK do :D

[10:59:19]

Dibblah:

Please, this conversation is pointless – I was just asking if anyone had asked already.

[10:59:30]

Solv:

it really is petty as far as i'm concerned...money grubbing greed...there used to be something called 'providing a service'...

[10:59:36]

justinh:

not pointless at all. common sense Vs freetards

[11:00:18]

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[11:00:19]

Dibblah:

Solv: What's your address? I feel like a holiday to Canada. I'll pay for my flights, but I'll just sleep on your sofa. OK?

[11:00:25]

Solv:

i don't think everything should be free....but I don't think the attitude of making money out of absolutely everything possible is the way to go either

[11:00:57]

Solv:

Dibblah, i don't actually see how that is even a close comparison

[11:00:58]

justinh:

Solv: a little late to say that capitalism is going too far, don't you think?

[11:01:08]

Dibblah:

Urgh. People confusion.

[11:01:10]

Solv:

justinh, why

[11:01:21]

Dibblah:

I'll sleep on tank-man's sofa ;)

[11:01:26]

Solv:

justinh, why just sit their and take it up the arse

[11:01:30]

tank-man:

its empty right now

[11:01:38]

justinh:

I spent all day collating that data. where's my money?

[11:01:47]

Dibblah:

Solv: Why does Google even exist?

[11:02:09]

tank-man:

googles bussines plan is not my problem

[11:02:13]

Solv:

Dibblah, because some university geeks invented it

[11:02:21]

Dibblah:

To do what?

[11:02:21]

justinh:

google didn't become a super-mega-hyper-globalcorp just by being the 'best' search engine

[11:02:29]

Solv:

i believe sometime in the mid to late nineties?

[11:02:38]

Dibblah:

Nope. It's by being an ad-portal.

[11:03:02]

justinh:

and for all its ills it still is the best search engine

[11:03:02]

directhex:

google is an ad company

[11:03:10]

directhex:

their customers are the people whose ads are being displayed

[11:03:14]

Solv:

wow what a revelation

[11:03:19]

directhex:

you, the searcher, are the product they sell

[11:03:32]

Dibblah:

They sell your eyeballs.

[11:03:43]

Dibblah:

There. Much more emotive. ;)

[11:04:01]

Solv:

true....i'm sure mine are wearing out much faster than they would otherwise =)

[11:04:18]

justinh:

Solv: point being, google display useful information on the condition that people might see an ad they like the look of & make them another $0.02. display said information without the advert attached & oh dear oh dear. google don't get their $0.02

[11:04:24]

Dibblah:

Yeah, but that's redtube, not Google. ;)

[11:04:52]

Solv:

i'm not sure i've every really disputed how google works on this thread?

[11:05:25]

directhex:

Dibblah, youporn!

[11:06:02]

justinh:

Solv: you can't blame capitalists for being greedy. they are, at the end of the day, only human

[11:06:34]

justinh:

if I could've come up with a secure way to make money out of kickass mythtv themes I might've

[11:06:48]

justinh:

how evil would that have made me then?

[11:06:58]

Solv:

the sort of arguments that capitalists have to do all this shite to make money etc etc, are very similar to the ones that not long ago were spouted by large corporations in relation to OSS...and now look where things are

[11:07:08]

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[11:07:19]

purserj:

Solv: umm capitalists are making money out of OSS?

[11:07:20]

Solv:

they used to say...how can a company make money if the code is released to everyone

[11:07:23]

directhex:

OSS is a way to make money selling services

[11:07:29]

Solv:

so IBM aren't capitlaists

[11:07:32]

Solv:

or HP

[11:07:33]

Solv:

or AMD

[11:07:35]

directhex:

red hat don't "provide a service", they "sell a service"

[11:07:57]

justinh:

give stuff away but charge money for services at a premium

[11:08:16]

justinh:

hey this mythtv stuff is free but if you want support giv me dowwar

[11:08:18]

Solv:

yeah but the point is there are sometimes other ways of doing things that people don't see at the time

[11:08:37]

purserj:

how is that an argument against capitalism?

[11:08:38]

justinh:

facking commies. they're everywhere :P

[11:09:07]

Solv:

quite non-related to free stuff but still the along the same lines is being environmental...companies used to complain how much it cost blah blah

[11:09:18]

purserj:

and now they're seeing it as a way to make money

[11:09:29]

Solv:

and also saving money by going green

[11:09:31]

justinh:

while not actually doing much either way ;)

[11:09:33]

purserj:

because it is now a market advantage to be seen to be environmentally friendly

[11:09:50]

Solv:

no but it also literally costs less to go green in the long run

[11:10:09]

justinh:

environmentalists are more of the same kind of loony as freetards

[11:10:25]

purserj:

as are hard core "the free market will solve all" tards

[11:10:35]

purserj:

ists generally tend to eb

[11:10:36]

purserj:

be

[11:10:38]

Solv:

so sometimes it's worth looking beyond the bottom line and the shareholders...because sometimes it might even lower that bottom line in the end

[11:11:18]

directhex:

so how does putting your guide data online for free for all users lower your bottom line?

[11:11:25]

justinh:

if the rationale that going green will always a) save money and b) the planet, the whole biofuel fiasco would never be a concern

[11:11:53]

Solv:

directhex, well i'm not giving out the answers to everything...i'm talking about examples...it may end up that being smart about it it will make you more money

[11:11:55]

dustybin:

this is outrageous, you havent got a bloody clue, not a bloody clue, justinh your fired!

[11:12:39]

Solv:

maybe for instance if you give away your data...whereas another provider charged people...more customers would be attracted to using the cheaper provider?

[11:12:46]

justinh:

yeah yeah. I bet Sugar has shares in biofuel tech..

[11:12:51]

Solv:

that's just a quick unthought thourgh idea

[11:13:08]

purserj:

Solv: depends, is your data actually useful?

[11:13:16]

directhex:

Solv, a loss leader only works if you have something profitable to sell as an offset

[11:13:24]

justinh:

Solv: depends on if you can produce the goods more profitably & at an acceptable quality

[11:13:25]

purserj:

the person charging may be charging for the fact that they have checked and ensured that their data is correct

[11:13:40]

justinh:

some things ARE worth paying for

[11:14:25]

justinh:

Â£5 for a can of shaving foam. Â£10 for one which was produced without hurting little bunnies. Hmmm...

[11:14:38]

** justinh pays Â£5 **

[11:14:40]

directhex:

or get a leccy razor

[11:15:10]

purserj:

or don't shave

[11:15:31]

Solv:

sure, it may be the case....however in the end consumers get jack of constantly having to payout for every little bit of convenience, and those that provied reasonable service at a competitive price with free offerings may do quite well in the end?

[11:15:35]

directhex:

but real men have well-groomed mutton chops!

[11:15:49]

Solv:

i like the 5 oclock shadow look

[11:15:52]

willcooke:

8 quid for 5 mach 3 razor blades – now theres a rip off if ever I saw one

[11:15:58]

purserj:

directhex: speaking as someone who has to wait two weeks for a decent five oclock shadow, blergh

[11:16:08]

willcooke:

Mr Gillet certainly got a handle on economics

[11:16:09]

Solv:

yeah blades are a rort

[11:16:16]

dustybin:

this is *worth* recording: 5 Five Dom Joly's Complainers Mon, May 19, 10:00 PM to 11:05 PM (67 mins)

[11:16:23]

willcooke:

Not really

[11:16:26]

directhex:

yeah, but you don't want to shave your balls with an electric razor

[11:16:35]

Solv:

who shaves their balls?

[11:16:39]

Solv:

damn

[11:16:43]

directhex:

pornstars!

[11:16:44]

Solv:

other than porn stars

[11:16:52]

justinh:

all the cool kids

[11:17:00]

Solv:

okay then...enjoy =)

[11:17:07]

willcooke:

justinh, how do you know kids are doing it?

[11:17:16]

Solv:

i'll just settle for my nice hairy ones

[11:17:27]

directhex:

redtube stars! and now we're back where Dibblah was

[11:17:27]

justinh:

willcooke: I watch Skins

[11:17:43]

willcooke:

justinh, a likely story. Hang around in playgrounds more likely.

[11:17:48]

willcooke:

;D

[11:18:01]

Solv:

is redtube a nickname for youtube like youporn..is it actually a video site

[11:18:14]

Solv:

or is it rather

[11:18:28]

directhex:

Solv, there are loads of youtube-like sites for porn, including (i wish i were kidding) footfetishtube

[11:18:38]

Solv:

nothing wrong with feet

[11:18:40]

dustybin:

mm feet

[11:18:46]

justinh:

willcooke: do not pour scorn on a http://www.faniq.com/images/blog/FamilyGuyHerbert.jpg

[11:19:24]

willcooke:

justinh, Ahhh! I love that guy – did you see the one where Brian was working at used car showroom, at that guy turns up and asks for "A tricked up Ice Cream Van"

[11:19:35]

justinh:

nope

[11:20:10]

justinh:

think I MIGHT have remembered that one! :D

[11:20:16]

Solv:

actually getting back to mythtv...has anyone got a sata DVD drive, and running 0.21?? my new sata drive closes itself the second it opens...but only when running myth..the pata drive is fine...

[11:20:53]

justinh:

Solv: maybe it opens, seens that High School Musical 2 DVD in your hand & thinks "fuck that"

[11:21:23]

rooaus:

justinh: lmao

[11:21:25]

directhex:

Solv, turn off drive polling?

[11:21:33]

Solv:

I was never in a high school musical...quit after primary school one...did Pirates of Penzance =)

[11:21:51]

Solv:

directhex, how do you turn it off?

[11:22:46]

directhex:

it's in the myth settings somewhere

[11:23:04]

directhex:

polling is a broken approach anyway. use dbus, that's what it's there for

[11:23:22]

justinh:

I am never gonna buy Disney presents for xmas again.. not if it means going into a Disney Store. talk about a captive audience

[11:23:50]

Solv:

directhex, ah cool...i was thinking it was a HAL thing...but yeah it must be a mythtv setting as it is fine outside of myth

[11:24:23]

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[11:24:33]

Solv:

directhex, are you talking about the 'monitor DVD' setting?

[11:24:39]

directhex:

yeah

[11:24:48]

Solv:

okay i know where that is...cheers

[11:25:08]

justinh:

reminds me I need to swap my tray loader for a slot model

[11:25:33]

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[11:25:41]

justinh:

okees. time to visit the hellmouth they call Warrington

[11:25:56]

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[11:28:55]

LabMonkey:

oh

[11:29:33]

LabMonkey:

I wonder if nv is causing this tearing/artifact issue with my x264 video

[11:29:49]

directhex:

nv isn't a media-capable driver

[11:30:07]

LabMonkey:

erm

[11:30:18]

LabMonkey:

sec, coffee not yet working

[11:30:22]

directhex:

use it to get a web browser working so you can switch to the proprietary driver. nothing more

[11:31:12]

LabMonkey:

I'm using the proprietary driver, yeah

[11:31:32]

directhex:

which isn't nv

[11:31:35]

LabMonkey:

nvidia, yeah

[11:31:41]

directhex:

using compiz?

[11:31:54]

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[11:32:10]

LabMonkey:

not remembering what compiz is atm, so not sure =\

[11:32:36]

directhex:

then i'm not sure how to help.

[11:32:38]

directhex:

NEXT!

[11:32:40]

LabMonkey:

heh

[11:33:21]

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[11:33:36]

willcooke:

Have you got nvidia-settings installed? If not, install it, then theres a check box to switch on H sync (or V sync, I forget which), then you need to use the OpenGL video render and Option "UseEvents" "True" in your xorg.conf file

[11:33:58]

willcooke:

that should help your tearing issues

[11:34:38]

LabMonkey:

Option "UseEvents" "True" in the Device section?

[11:34:49]

willcooke:

Indeed

[11:34:51]

LabMonkey:

k

[11:42:57]

LabMonkey:

ok so... no on compiz, UseEvents seems to have helped but not totally eliminated the problem

[11:43:05]

LabMonkey:

and glx is what I was thinking of

[11:44:38]

LabMonkey:

and it's VBlank in the ogl settings

[11:47:35]

willcooke:

Have you switched MythTV to use the OpenGL video render? It uses XV by default

[11:49:24]

LabMonkey:

that's a really good question

[11:50:34]

willcooke:

I couldn't play back HD content smoothly, then I switched to OpenGL and the various settings and now I can – so it's in there somewhere. I'm running Ubuntu Hardy and the latest SVN

[11:55:52]

LabMonkey:

well

[11:56:03]

LabMonkey:

I wonder if it's a buffering issue

[11:56:18]

LabMonkey:

because the video is on one machine and I'm playing it over 100mbit

[11:56:33]

willcooke:

doubt it

[11:56:57]

willcooke:

HD streams are typically less that 50Mb

[11:57:02]

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[11:57:25]

psofa_:

anyone knows how the internal player compares to mplayer performance wise?

[11:57:57]

LabMonkey:

yeah but I just wonder if the internal player is only prebuffering just before it runs out of buffered video

[11:58:17]

willcooke:

You'd see buffering errors in your frontend log

[12:00:39]

LabMonkey:

good poing

[12:00:40]

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[12:00:45]

LabMonkey:

point*

[12:00:59]

willcooke:

psofa_, you mean CPU load? I can't say I've noticed much difference. Both use very little

[12:02:22]

psofa_:

more about video timing precision.Im having probs with mplayer.xine is ok but its interface isnt optimal

[12:03:18]

willcooke:

Ah, in which case I've no idea. Have you tried running the FE as root, just to test it with realtime threads?

[12:03:33]

psofa_:

any possibility that my jetway cheapo mobo+ nvidia 7100gs are so shit they cant handle 1080p?

[12:05:38]

psofa_:

the realtime threads have never given me any performance gain in the past

[12:05:38]

LabMonkey:

[h264 @ 0x2b8bbac6d050]AVC: Consumed only 48 bytes instead of 1416127776

[12:05:45]

willcooke:

I've got a 7100 PCI x card – it works fine for 1080 (but I couldn't say if it's p or i), but I got better results at 720

[12:05:49]

LabMonkey:

that the kind of buffering error you're talking about?

[12:07:25]

willcooke:

LabMonkey, could be buffering, but I'd lean more towards an encoding error. But I don't know – I'm just making wild guesses now. Sorry bud – I'm all out of ideas.

[12:07:39]

LabMonkey:

k, np

[12:07:51]

LabMonkey:

I appreciate the help just the same :)

[12:08:32]

willcooke:

NP – keep try out all the possible combinations, you'll narrow it down in the end

[12:08:37]

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[12:16:30]

directhex:

looks like the avc file has bitrate bouncing

[12:16:33]

directhex:

which myth is terrible with

[12:24:58]

justinh:

nice to see so many users are opting to contribute to the bug finding effort by running trunk :)

[12:25:27]

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[12:35:36]

Hoxzer:

Ok, this isn't mythtv related but this is HTPC related. How do you guys keep your mediaPC's cold? Mine is running with Zalman 7000 and still when under stress my CPU hits 70c

[12:35:47]

Hoxzer:

I would love to have silent solution.

[12:36:08]

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[12:39:16]

justinh:

get the right CPU :)

[12:39:25]

Hoxzer:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article181-page1.html I have considered this for a while

[12:40:00]

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[12:40:31]

mjj29:

Hoxzer: do you have a 60cm wide case?

[12:41:03]

justinh:

a reserator? roflmao

[12:41:23]

iamlindoro:

janneg: http://brentevans.blogspot.com/2008/05/answer . . . -hd-pvr.html Credit cards charged/shipping today FYI

[12:41:27]

Hoxzer:

mjj29: I guess it is somewhat 40–60cm wide (it is huge)

[12:41:42]

Hoxzer:

justinh: It would at least be cold and silent

[12:41:51]

justinh:

cheaper & less hassle to buy a more efficient barebones

[12:42:15]

justinh:

check out SPCR's review of the Hipermedia AMD barebones media machine

[12:42:25]

Hoxzer:

Njaah

[12:42:34]

Hoxzer:

I use my HTPC as a server too

[12:42:42]

justinh:

hey look you're the one with the big fat noisy heater

[12:43:05]

justinh:

you could always try one of those self-contained water coolers

[12:43:10]

justinh:

they're still pretty big though

[12:43:21]

justinh:

but they're cheaper than $250 a pop

[12:46:30]

justinh:

http://www.northq.com/ – dunno what they're like but they're bound to be better than overrated Zalman stuff

[12:46:59]

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[13:00:50]

janneg:

iamlindoro: thanks, release won't happen before sunday evening, occupied with linuxtag until saturday evening

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[13:15:21]

gbee:

directhex: suppose you've seen the update on the Compro driver download page? "?We are in the process of adhering to the GNU General Public License rules andwe expect to have the drivers ready by Q3 2008.?

[13:15:56]

directhex:

gbee, no, that's news to me

[13:16:03]

gbee:

http://www.comprousa.com/en/download/xseries.html

[13:16:17]

gbee:

bottom of the page where the Mandriva and Fedora drivers used to be

[13:17:51]

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[13:18:54]

directhex:

gbee, excellent. i'll update LKML. janneg, can you mention it on the linuxtv list?

[13:20:28]

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[13:26:26]

directhex:

i'm behind the curve. http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13507

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[13:48:20]

J-e-f-f-A_:

iamlindoro: Wow, looking promising then, eh? (Hauppauge HD encoder)

[13:48:26]

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[13:49:30]

iamlindoro:

janneg: Yeah, unlikely to get here before Saturday at the earliest, probably more like Monday. J-e-f-f-A: Well I haven't personally handled one yet so as in the dark as you :)

[13:52:20]

** hatchmt is back (gone 15:09:52) **

[13:53:41]

** justinh doesn't care (at all) **

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[14:24:08]

directhex:

more cowbell!

[14:26:02]

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[14:28:23]

willcooke:

Question about channels & mythweb: If I untick the "visable" box does Myth treat this channel as not existing, so won't schedule anything on that channel? The reason I want to to this is because there is so much crap on dvb-s that if I delete the channels, and then re-scan I'll have to delete them all again.

[14:29:23]

gbee:

willcooke: that's exactly how it works and why it was added

[14:29:44]

willcooke:

Nice!! Cheers.

[14:30:11]

gbee:

you can actually still manually schedule and watch livetv on those channels, but they are left out of the EPG/Browse Mode and normal scheduling

[14:31:18]

gbee:

btw, if you want them to remain invisible after scanning then you need the very latest -fixes, there was a bug which meant that visibility and EIT settings were lost after a rescan

[14:31:30]

gbee:

I fixed it in -fixes a couple of days ago

[14:32:27]

willcooke:

is it in svn as well?

[14:32:45]

gbee:

yeah, it's been in svn for a couple of months (at least)

[14:32:53]

willcooke:

oh cool – then I'm covered!

[14:33:01]

willcooke:

good work that man

[14:33:03]

iamlindoro:

Jesus. Remind me never to ask my mother to feed the dog while I'm out of town again unless I want to spend hours fixing my mythbox after she decides to turn off the circuit breakers to conserve power

[14:33:15]

willcooke:

:)

[14:33:47]

willcooke:

couldn't you just leave a load of food out – and trust the dog to only eat as much as he should every day? :D

[14:34:49]

iamlindoro:

She also decided to clean my house, and now nothing smells right and I can't find anything.

[14:35:05]

iamlindoro:

I mean, if I lived in a dorm it's one thing, pushing 30 is another

[14:43:10]

justinh:

hahaha

[14:43:20]

justinh:

mothers, eh

[14:43:42]

justinh:

"all your food tins were turned the wrong way!"

[14:43:59]

justinh:

"and why does your wife need THIS?"

[14:44:33]

justinh:

and the age old.. "SO, when am I going to be a grandmother?"

[14:44:44]

justinh:

bless em all

[14:45:23]

justinh:

iamlindoro: btw the reason you can't find THEM things is because she threw them out ;)

[14:46:55]

iamlindoro:

hahahaha

[14:47:17]

iamlindoro:

Perhaps the motivation of killing the mythbox if she found the MythVideo "Other" directory

[14:47:43]

iamlindoro:

I'll just calmly and rationally explain to her that lots of grown men enjoy dolphin/midget porn

[14:48:00]

justinh:

maybe connecting her massive portable USB disk array was too much of a power drain

[14:48:39]

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[14:48:39]

iamlindoro:

Definitely a scenario I want to know nothing about

[14:48:54]

justinh:

I said portable USB disk array ;)

[14:49:08]

justinh:

not THE INTRUDER

[14:49:24]

justinh:

no disrespect btw :)

[14:49:31]

iamlindoro:

Yeah yeah, I know, I just imagined her taking the Other folder home for personal enjoyment with my father

[14:49:43]

iamlindoro:

And now I have to drink bleach to clean my mind's eye

[14:49:45]

justinh:

yeah nobody wants to go there

[14:50:02]

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[14:50:29]

iamlindoro:

Most galling of all was the fact that I cleaned house just before I left

[14:50:34]

iamlindoro:

Guess I just didn't clean RIGHT

[14:50:38]

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[14:51:36]

justinh:

it's impossible to clean to those kind of standards

[14:52:12]

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[14:52:54]

justinh:

hmm is it hometime yet? i.e. can the flexi take another hammerring?

[14:52:58]

iamlindoro:

She was also kind enough to leave me a bill for the cleaning supplies and I think they broke my dog

[14:52:58]

gbee:

do Sky boxes have built in amps or something?

[14:53:07]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: re: 'invisible' channels re-appearing... <-- Wow, didn't know that... That explains it! (haven't been watching the list that closely either... oops!)

[14:53:14]

justinh:

gbee: don't think so

[14:53:38]

justinh:

tuner sensitivity does vary a hell of a lot between cards & STBs though

[14:54:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: (power) Yikes! WTF????

[14:54:14]

gbee:

"BBC 1 CI" same tranponder as BBC HD appears fine through the STB, but has a high error rate through the card – all other transponders I've tried seem fine

[14:54:40]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A: I have learned better than to ask. If I explain the massive violation of privacy and technical complications, I'll merely be guilt-tripped out of my mind

[14:54:56]

justinh:

iamlindoro knows the score

[14:55:10]

iamlindoro:

Aomething about giving birth to me no doubt

[14:55:13]

iamlindoro:

er Something

[14:55:16]

iamlindoro:

justinh: ;)

[14:55:18]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Next time just have her take care of the dog at HER house... ;-)

[14:55:30]

iamlindoro:

J-e-f-f-A: that's the worst part, *she did*

[14:55:39]

justinh:

we move a lot of stuff into our attic before having somebody look after the place

[14:55:40]

iamlindoro:

But she brought her over here during the day for whatever reason

[14:55:50]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: WHAT??? Jeeze, take away her key! ;-)

[14:55:57]

justinh:

to have a nosey around, why else?!

[14:56:05]

justinh:

jees get with the program :)

[14:56:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Change the locks!!! ; -)

[14:56:16]

iamlindoro:

Hey, I would tell my mom up front that there are guns and porn in the house

[14:56:24]

iamlindoro:

doubt it would make a difference

[14:56:40]

justinh:

guns & porn? wow what's he HIDING?!

[14:56:55]

iamlindoro:

bwahaha

[14:57:26]

justinh:

why is the cellar door locked up & chained so securely? OH NOES.. there'll be a GIMP in there or something!

[14:57:48]

iamlindoro:

She seems to have left the closet with the DVD porn alone which means either a) it's a ruse, or b) porn to moms is like garlic to vampires, in which case I'm outfitting every edifice with porn from now on

[14:57:53]

justinh:

gbee: tried a different PCI slot? PSU noise can be a factor

[14:58:20]

iamlindoro:

anyway, off to work

[14:58:35]

justinh:

gbee: infact, measure your 12V rail. anything less than 10% under 12.0V, bring in a capable PSU

[14:58:42]

gbee:

only two to chose from and it's already in the one furthest from the PSU :)

[14:58:56]

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[14:59:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

Looks like I've got to either re-position my sat dish again or climb and trim some branches again... 92db signal strength until the wind blows, then it drops down to 60 or worse for a second or two... ick.

[14:59:40]

justinh:

PSU problems have been the bane of a few users I've talked to here.. esp w.r.t. signal quality

[15:00:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: Did you actually check the DVDs? Maybe she replace the DVDs with copies of "Gone With The Wind"... ;-)

[15:00:32]

gbee:

hmm, the PSU _was_ cheap, but it's also new and replacing it isn't an attractive prospect

[15:00:50]

justinh:

gbee: a saggy 12V rail will be a good indicator

[15:00:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: Not on my PC, on physical dish receivers... I had to trim a tree a couple of years ago, and looks like it's time again..

[15:01:11]

justinh:

J-e-f-f-A: I'm speaking in general terms

[15:01:18]

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[15:02:09]

J-e-f-f-A:

justinh: Yeah, just realized you were referring to gbee ... oops. ;-) Yeah, we can't do DVB-S on pc's here in the US like you guys can do over there... :-(

[15:02:29]

justinh:

I've seen some PCI dvb-s cards with HDD power connectors on em to help with the 12V requirement

[15:03:44]

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[15:04:02]

gbee:

managed to squeeze a higher signal quality out of the dish when tweaking yesterday, but with the rain I ended up locking it off at a the wrong position – I'll try again tonight

[15:04:57]

justinh:

gbee: if my dish tweaks with analogue are anything to go by you might end up with some of the band being better than other bits when off-axis slightly

[15:05:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: Do you have any friedns with a sat signal strength meter you can borrow? That helps a ton...

[15:05:37]

justinh:

and spray your dish with GT85 ;)

[15:05:44]

hadees:

so whats the deal with mythrecipe? is the updated version just vapor ware?

[15:05:46]

gbee:

J-e-f-f-A: already got one

[15:05:52]

justinh:

hadees: pretty much

[15:05:55]

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[15:06:02]

justinh:

ATNA

[15:06:04]

hadees:

justinh, damn, i had high hopes

[15:06:10]

justinh:

all talk no action (so far)

[15:06:16]

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[15:06:22]

hadees:

i've really wanted to do some killer kitchen stuff

[15:06:29]

dustybin:

when i connect my webcam to my mythbox for zoneminder it creates this device: /dev/video0 is it possible to connect more than 1 webcam to a linux box? im thinking about buying the exact same model

[15:06:31]

hadees:

i just don't feel confident writing a myth plugin

[15:06:55]

justinh:

it's not hard

[15:07:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

maybe we should rename "MythTV" to "MythKitchenSink" ;-) (Recipies...)

[15:07:09]

justinh:

the examples are ace

[15:07:20]

justinh:

the source is pretty good for working out how things work too

[15:07:47]

justinh:

I made mythappearance (almost) work in a weekend or so

[15:07:55]

gbee:

I've been using the signal strength meter to improve things and just bought a bigger dish to see if it helps, I probably just need to get it pointed correctly but it was pouring with rain at the time and I don't have three hands to hold the dish, meter and spanner

[15:08:01]

hadees:

J-e-f-f-A, lol well i don't think recipe is too far out there, it makes sense for a kitchen that has limited space to use a tv for also the kitchen app

[15:08:14]

justinh:

gbee: ahhh that's what minions are for ;)

[15:08:44]

justinh:

and skyhooks. just hang the meter on a skyhook

[15:08:46]

gbee:

it's annoying that the STB seems fine with the same positioning :(

[15:08:47]

** J-e-f-f-A owns an Amiga "Kitchen Sync" – a internal dual Video Time Base Corrector (sync corrector).. ;-) **

[15:09:04]

** gbee goes off to buy sky hooks **

[15:09:05]

hadees:

justinh, yeah i know you say it is easy but i also have other commitments. I would really rather focus on the cooler stuff i want to do like tracking what food i have in my kitchen

[15:09:20]

justinh:

er.. look in the fridge

[15:09:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: What sort of strength are you seeing at the dish, then at your pc? Is there a huge difference?

[15:09:42]

gbee:

hadees: you kitchen it that big? :)

[15:10:06]

hadees:

justinh, lol, it would be more then just that, you can do cool things like suggest recipes based on what is going bad

[15:10:13]

gbee:

J-e-f-f-A|work: not really, it's the signal quality and not the strength that I'm having problems with

[15:10:19]

justinh:

these non UK folks don't have a clue what real houses are like

[15:10:39]

hadees:

justinh, or it can automatically make grocery lists.

[15:10:51]

gbee:

having the meter in-line at the time causes the strength/quality to drop 10% at the PC – not suprising really

[15:11:03]

justinh:

our house is considered big by a lot of people we know, yet the ground floor is probably only 60 sq. metres

[15:11:08]

hadees:

justinh, also i already figured out how i can get recipes for Food Network shows, i have a custom script i use on my own

[15:11:30]

hadees:

it just dumps the html right now

[15:11:41]

hadees:

but i easily make it import the recipe to some other format

[15:11:48]

hadees:

like mythrecipe

[15:11:49]

justinh:

scraping websites eh? oh dear not that again

[15:12:17]

hadees:

justinh, i think it is fair use

[15:12:25]

justinh:

if cooking became enough of a chore that I had to follow a recipe I think I'd end up living on oven chips & pies

[15:12:27]

hadees:

justinh, you aren't sharing them

[15:12:42]

justinh:

hadees: not the point. see the log from a few hours ago

[15:13:03]

hadees:

justinh, can you give me the gist of it?

[15:13:06]

justinh:

if Food Network allow scraping, or don't expressly forbid it, no problem

[15:13:32]

whoDat_:

just got firewire working! for some reason i can only get the HD digital network channels. (403–411). HD discovery etc must be encrypted. whats strange is, i cant get the SD network channels over firewire. (3–8 or so)

[15:14:09]

hadees:

justinh, i'm not sure what the TOS are but i can't see them being pissed that someone is making watching their shows more involving

[15:14:43]

hadees:

but i guess it is possible, if that is the case i would just host the script myself

[15:15:31]

hadees:

whoDat_, i don't think that is strange, they don't have to let you have them over firewire

[15:15:34]

justinh:

hadees: remember web scraping was the whole reason the old mythweather was pulled

[15:15:41]

hadees:

i still can't get mine working

[15:15:58]

hadees:

justinh, but that is because they changed the website

[15:16:20]

justinh:

hadees: not why it was pulled – it could have been fixed

[15:16:29]

justinh:

very easily infact

[15:16:56]

hadees:

justinh, yeah i know the new TOS but were they specifically asked to stop?

[15:17:07]

justinh:

best practise :)

[15:18:10]

justinh:

IMDB are allowing mythtv scripts to scrape them but AFAIK still no word on whether they're ok about it

[15:19:01]

hadees:

justinh, i totally understand why but just like the IMDB there are just some cases where it works really well and i don't think violates the spirit of the services

[15:19:01]

justinh:

I know it doesn't seem to bother developers of other projects, but they really should pay attention

[15:19:04]

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[15:19:37]

hadees:

justinh, well mythtv does have to walk that fine line although i think in some cases it has been a hindrance

[15:19:54]

justinh:

I had people leeching off my hosting bandwidth by hotlinking to my images. I soon put a stop to that

[15:20:03]

hadees:

like not having a pod cast client

[15:20:15]

justinh:

being legit is always a hindrance

[15:20:21]

** iamlindoro_ bet's he's missed some choice nonsense in the last few minutes and checks the logs **

[15:20:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

It probably doesn't bother them unless the usage gets excessive... and/or they may not even notice unless it's excessive...

[15:20:43]

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[15:20:47]

justinh:

it also stops you pissing people off & being sued

[15:20:49]

hadees:

justinh, yeah but like in the case of the podcast stuff it wasn't inherently illegal

[15:21:03]

hadees:

i watch a lot of video podcasts

[15:21:25]

justinh:

there are plenty of legal podcasts. nobody has yet written a cast downloaderyfier

[15:21:28]

hadees:

all of which are legal but in theory you could be downloading illegal files

[15:22:09]

justinh:

there's a line between RSS & torrents which nobody should cross IMHO

[15:22:17]

hadees:

justinh, i know but i've always heard it explained why there wasn't one had to do with torrents

[15:22:35]

hadees:

justinh, but all the shows i watch, from revision3, come out over rss and torrents

[15:22:41]

iamlindoro_:

hadees, Weren't you the one who was in here a few weeks back implying that that rsstv nonsense was legal somehow?

[15:22:41]

justinh:

AND the fact nobody has fecking written one

[15:22:51]

hadees:

iamlindoro, lol no

[15:22:57]

iamlindoro_:

oh, good

[15:23:04]

iamlindoro_:

because whoever that was was a stupid fuck

[15:23:08]

iamlindoro_:

:)

[15:23:13]

hadees:

iamlindoro, i know it is illegal, my deal is that it over laps with my legal uses

[15:23:43]

hadees:

its like banning violent videos games because kids might play them

[15:23:47]

justinh:

I've even argued that it's all dodgy & can be seen in a bad light

[15:23:52]

iamlindoro_:

There was some silliness about "If I can get a show via OTA it must be legal for me to download"

[15:24:03]

iamlindoro_:

there was much pointing and laughing after that

[15:24:03]

justinh:

even I can see that mythvideo doesn't care where all the videos come from

[15:24:15]

justinh:

indeed mythdvd is technically illegal in the UK

[15:24:46]

whoDat_:

hadees: yeah i was just wondering why not let them be on firewire port if i can get them through the svideo port. not sure how i going to do this now, but i guess i need to create two instsances of my cablebox on mythtv-setup. one for firewire, and one for svideo. but i am thinking it then would see it as two different tuners, and so i would obviously have scheduling issues.

[15:25:05]

justinh:

anyway I think the legal argument is mostly used to put people off on the "wah! you no write me torrent downloady plugin.. WAH!"

[15:25:23]

iamlindoro_:

Because the firewire port is a perfect digital copy and you'll get that from your cable company when you pry it out of their cold, dead hands in most cases :)

[15:25:34]

hadees:

justinh, you could even use mythgallery to view child porn, does that mean we should get rid of that? i know that sounds ridiculous but thats how i feel, you should punish people who actually break laws

[15:25:53]

justinh:

well DUH

[15:26:06]

iamlindoro_:

If the primary use of image viewers was the viewing of kiddie porn, it might be a more apt example

[15:26:15]

hadees:

but not having the rss and torrents wouldn't do that

[15:26:38]

justinh:

like I said the 'legality' issue is mostly about trying to extinguish whiners IMHO. I know it is whenever I cite it

[15:26:43]

hadees:

iamlindoro, i don't consider the primary use of rss + torrents to watch illegal tv

[15:26:43]

iamlindoro_:

whereas there are legit reasons for torrent downloads exist, but it's disingenuous to say that the vast majority of them are *not* used for illegal content

[15:26:48]

hadees:

it is a use

[15:27:11]

iamlindoro_:

hadees, the primary usage of bittorrent in general is illegal content, there's not the slightest doubt about that

[15:27:16]

gbee:

fact is that the predominant uses of bittorrent are illegal, especially when it comes to video material – there are just a small handful of legally distributed videos there and so it comes down to appearances – how MythTV is seen and portrayed

[15:27:16]

iamlindoro_:

as unfortunate as it is

[15:27:40]

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[15:27:41]

hadees:

iamlindoro_, i'm not denying the majority but there are major legal uses too

[15:27:45]

justinh:

as for projects like XBMC.. ffs you need warez to build it so from the very off it's seen as illegal

[15:27:58]

hadees:

not everyone can afford to have a big fat pipe so they must give out their shows over bt

[15:28:02]

iamlindoro_:

hadees, Well since I said from the start that there were legit usages, why am I being lectured?

[15:28:30]

justinh:

got time to whine about it but no time to write a plugin.. or something :-\

[15:29:14]

hadees:

iamlindoro_, i'm not trying to lecture you, i just expressing my opinion about the taboos of mythtv

[15:29:34]

justinh:

if P2P didn't have the bad rep it has (and let's face it, it's too late for anything else).. then MAYBE

[15:29:55]

iamlindoro_:

Let's just all roll back to .14 and use torrentocracy

[15:30:09]

hadees:

justinh, lol i thought it was more a theory discussion but i already have a work around for the podcast things

[15:30:25]

gbee:

if the primary use of gallery/photo viewing software was to look at child porn (to use your own example), then would it be wise for MythTV to support MythGallery given the perception that would result?

[15:30:27]

justinh:

and Mediaportal users – they have a client too.. but then aren't most Windows users the ones in love with 'free' software too? (as in downloaded via P2P)

[15:32:02]

justinh:

maybe if all the mythtv devs were underground characters & nobody knew any more about them than their mysterious IRC nick / forum avatar ... ;)

[15:32:18]

** iamlindoro_ joins #mythtv on EFNet **

[15:32:33]

hadees:

why not #i2p

[15:32:45]

GreyFoxx:

ima: heh I didn't know there was one on efnet

[15:32:46]

GreyFoxx:

*joins*

[15:33:03]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx, There's not that I'm aware of, just referencing Justinh's comment :)

[15:33:24]

iamlindoro_:

Bet you could talk SoftCAMs all you wanted over there though ;)

[15:34:04]

iamlindoro_:

In the land of everyone's nick is n30, th30n3, theone, trinity, tr1n1ty, or some other lame permutation on the matrix :)

[15:34:17]

hadees:

follow the white rabbit

[15:34:23]

gbee:

no-one is stopping a bittorrent client being created, but it won't be official and we'll distance the project from it – the users who want it won't be the ones dealing with the consequences

[15:34:57]

iamlindoro_:

The NY times article from a while back is a good example of a MythTV being obliquely connected with illegal behavior

[15:34:58]

justinh:

.:. Welcome to the UN-official TV theft support channel .:. Latest stable release: 21.0 Sh@r3 ur r3c0rd1nz!

[15:35:22]

hadees:

gbee, there is a stigma and i doubt discussing that client would be allowed in here even if the talk was never about the illegal uses

[15:35:35]

iamlindoro_:

you'd be right

[15:35:46]

iamlindoro_:

Then again, we don't support MythStream in here either

[15:35:55]

justinh:

can't wait to see the legality of place shifting tested !

[15:36:34]

hadees:

iamlindoro, but you wouldn't be told you can't talk about MythStream

[15:36:51]

hadees:

i've talked about it quite a bit a while ago when i was using it

[15:36:53]

justinh:

the first rule of MythStream is..

[15:36:53]

Anduin:

but talk about ffmpeg all you want...

[15:37:00]

gbee:

Isaac has already had to defend MythTV from press articles which allege that MythTV is some sort of shady and illegal software – it's not fair on him or other devs that they have to spend their time dealing with things like that and potential legal trouble

[15:37:13]

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[15:37:36]

gbee:

Anduin: oh yes, we're hypocrites alright ;)

[15:37:44]

justinh:

Anduin: ffmpeg hasn't been deemed even dubious yet though, has it?

[15:37:46]

hti_pro:

hey does anyone have any experience setting up mupen64plus N64 emulator in mythgame

[15:37:54]

hadees:

gbee, i 110% agree but that is more a problem of the people reporting on things they don't understand

[15:37:54]

iamlindoro_:

hahah, what perfect timing

[15:37:58]

justinh:

(surprisingly)

[15:38:09]

Anduin:

justinh: distribute a MyhtTV binary at mythtv.org and find out

[15:38:16]

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[15:38:19]

gbee:

hadees: yes, the real world

[15:38:50]

justinh:

ouchy

[15:39:01]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, As it's IRC and I'm not an optimist, I'll just presume you haven't read this: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Configur . . . #Mupen64Plus

[15:39:14]

hadees:

gbee, and that is why we have things like the eff which we should all donate to

[15:39:40]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro: I have read that actually, i have it up and running, but it won't let me configure the input plugin

[15:39:44]

hadees:

it is kind of interesting there is a mythgame given the legality

[15:40:16]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, Then it's out of our hands, wouldn't know where to begin with mupen (aside from a forum or channel having to do with that software)

[15:40:18]

hti_pro:

mythgame is technically just a frontend to run any kind of program that requires a file as an argument

[15:40:42]

hadees:

hti_pro, i know but a bittorrent client could just be a frontend too

[15:40:49]

iamlindoro_:

jesus

[15:40:56]

iamlindoro_:

it's not possible to have a short discussion about this

[15:41:01]

iamlindoro_:

every time it goes on for four hours

[15:41:05]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro: I thought it was long shot, but i had to try

[15:41:13]

iamlindoro_:

because the asker will never let it go

[15:41:14]

hti_pro:

thanks guys

[15:41:18]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, good luck

[15:41:35]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, I think I've set up mupen before and there was a forum, dunno about the plus variant though

[15:42:05]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.emutalk.net/forumdisplay.php?f=113

[15:42:09]

iamlindoro_:

thar we go

[15:42:12]

hadees:

iamlindoro, if it bothers you that much i'll stop talking about it, i've got a criminal justice degree so i find these ambiguous legal questions fascinating.

[15:42:12]

gbee:

you can't ignore human behaviour and what really happens in the world, discussing the possibility of a world where the press never get their facts wrong, bittorrent only has legal uses and the MIAA/RIAA employ people with common sense wastes everyones time

[15:42:21]

justinh:

way I see the whole torrent thing.. there are plenty standalone clients already. bring P2P & a PVR together.. and oh shit you have a disaster

[15:43:38]

justinh:

on the other hand, maybe meet halfway by not having to scan directories to find new material, maybe group stuff

[15:44:00]

hti_pro:

torrent is just a way to share files, what files are shared are up to the people using it and is virtually uncontrollable my the creators of the clients

[15:44:05]

justinh:

make better filters on metadata possibly.. and yeah that's sort of halfway

[15:44:21]

gbee:

hti_pro: there we go, ignoring reality

[15:44:21]

justinh:

99.9999999% of all p2p traffic is illegal. Fact

[15:44:37]

hti_pro:

how am i ignoring reality

[15:44:48]

gbee:

like gun companies saying, "we just make the guns, we can't stop people killing each other with them"

[15:44:56]

hadees:

justinh, i've actually wanted to try and move out the mythvideo scaning scripts to something i can run on a cron

[15:45:15]

justinh:

hadees: you don't even need to

[15:45:20]

GreyFoxx:

mythvideo scanning scripts?

[15:45:28]

hti_pro:

Mack makes millions of trucks, but its not their fault people use them to transport drugs and guns

[15:45:41]

hadees:

justinh, how do you do it automatically?

[15:45:46]

justinh:

hti_pro: yeah but what if they could do something about it ?

[15:45:55]

justinh:

hadees: you don't. no need to

[15:46:00]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, there aren't any scripts, i was talking about scanning for new videos

[15:46:04]

GreyFoxx:

hti: No, but if they made the DRug and gun express sturbo delivery truck with hidden compartments and shielding people might have a problem :)

[15:46:08]

Anduin:

hadees: look at find_meta.py

[15:46:25]

hti_pro:

GreyFoxx: :):):)

[15:46:28]

iamlindoro_:

Especially since secret compartments are illegal in many states :)

[15:46:42]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro, i believe in the entire us

[15:47:00]

justinh:

lol

[15:47:18]

hadees:

always put it in a locked glove box, and take out your registration and what not and keep it somewhere else

[15:47:43]

hti_pro:

hey if torrent has to go then shouldn't cd/dvd burners

[15:47:51]

hti_pro:

and tape recorders

[15:47:57]

justinh:

hti_pro: standalone dvd burners exist

[15:47:59]

hadees:

they can't search a locked glove box unless they impound your car and as procedure they inventory all cars

[15:48:12]

GreyFoxx:

My DVD burner doesn't download content from other people to which I have no legal right :)

[15:48:12]

hti_pro:

hell how about hard disks, all used in piracy

[15:48:17]

GreyFoxx:

don't know about you :)

[15:48:23]

justinh:

standalone bit torrent downloaders... they're coming :(

[15:48:36]

justinh:

there is actually a box you can buy to do that now

[15:48:41]

hti_pro:

no but people use dvd burners to commit illegal activities

[15:49:03]

GreyFoxx:

hti: Yes, but that's a rididculous extreme, I can use a spoon to murder someone, should be ban cutlery?

[15:49:06]

hti_pro:

torrent has legitimate purposes also, in fact i use it to share code with fellow programmers

[15:49:19]

justinh:

ban duct tape. imagine all the hell caused by that! have you ever seen it put to GOOD use on TV or in a film?

[15:49:22]

GreyFoxx:

No, we don't ban spoons because that is not their primay use

[15:49:38]

iamlindoro_:

ffs, this discussion has happened often enough to say that the answer is NO, nobody is getting convinced, and that the answer will *always* be no. Now can we talk about filthy porno again?

[15:49:58]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, but it is a slippery slope, the line is ambiguous

[15:49:59]

hti_pro:

GreyFoxx: exactly my point, you can't target torrent because "some"(or most) people use it for illegal activities

[15:50:09]

justinh:

wah wah wah freetards r00l etc

[15:50:17]

hadees:

anyway they aren't going to change anything

[15:50:21]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro_, sorry i will leave it alone now

[15:50:49]

hti_pro:

now about that porno

[15:50:51]

hti_pro:

????

[15:51:13]

hadees:

iamlindoro, so do you use the parental controls to hide it from your significant other?

[15:51:16]

justinh:

you guys have never had to listen to a lecture from a very loud man with an annoying voice while you're trying to set up a stand at a linux expo

[15:51:40]

GreyFoxx:

hti: No, you target it because it's primarily used that way

[15:51:58]

justinh:

"I hope all your content is creative commons"... oh damn

[15:51:59]

GreyFoxx:

I mean come on. Before itunes are you gonna argue that MOST downloaders of mp3's were all downloading "freely" released stuff?

[15:52:02]

GreyFoxx:

Lets get real

[15:52:32]

GreyFoxx:

I don't know about you, but few people have 100G's of mp3's they have paid for or ripped from discs they bought

[15:52:48]

iamlindoro_:

hadees, I don't date *anyone* who won't watch filthy porno with me. A personal policy :)

[15:52:49]

GreyFoxx:

yet lots of people come in bitching about muyth music being slow to scan their collection

[15:52:52]

justinh:

what isn't worth buying ain't worth listening to :)

[15:53:14]

justinh:

GreyFoxx: same for the mythvideo whiners too

[15:53:31]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, i don't think it is slow i just wish it did it in the background instead of me having to prompt it

[15:53:35]

justinh:

oh where did that 1TB of .mkv files come from anyway? :)

[15:53:59]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, Not unlike troubleshooting some problems with the mythvideo scripts I released a few months back-- they broke when you had 10000 video files and that was NOT an anticipated use when I wrote them :)

[15:54:08]

justinh:

.mkv – will that container ever get a goodpress? :)

[15:54:11]

** J-e-f-f-A is one of thouse guys that only has mp3's ripped from my personal CDs **

[15:54:16]

hadees:

mythvideo scanning actually makes a high pitched sound come out of my speakers

[15:54:25]

hadees:

that is really annoying

[15:54:33]

GreyFoxx:

hadee: Then your pc is busted

[15:54:33]

justinh:

hadees: get a decent soundcard. one with PSU decoupling

[15:54:33]

hadees:

i think it is the crappy built in motherboard sound card

[15:54:45]

GreyFoxx:

It's not like mythvideo has turned on the "whine" bit ;)

[15:54:52]

GreyFoxx:

I use ot have a PC that wiould do that though

[15:55:02]

GreyFoxx:

HD access made some noise on the speakers

[15:55:03]

iamlindoro_:

I used to date someone with the whine bit stuck on

[15:55:11]

GreyFoxx:

I moved the soundcard and the problem went away :)

[15:55:13]

hadees:

justinh, yeah it is but just weird it only happens when i see that progress bar

[15:55:19]

justinh:

my very first ever frontend – used to get a noise in the left hand speaker when I moved the mouse

[15:55:55]

GreyFoxx:

hadee: Why do yo uhave to let mythvideo scan at all ?

[15:56:10]

justinh:

because that's how people think it has to work!

[15:56:11]

GreyFoxx:

I only run the video manager when I want to add metadata to a new movie

[15:56:12]

justinh:

tada!

[15:56:18]

hadees:

i have a really old soundblaster card but i bet it is still better then my built in one

[15:56:25]

hadees:

i'll have to switch that in

[15:56:40]

justinh:

I need to look at that feature somebody mentioned about text files the other day

[15:56:42]

hti_pro:

every time i add new video to my directory i have to run video manager to add it to the gallery

[15:57:00]

GreyFoxx:

hti: you don't have to, just enable the flag to let the gallery browse files

[15:57:08]

justinh:

let's vote to make the default 'browse files' :)

[15:57:08]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, you use the browse mode but i have too much stuff, i use the listing i think it is, the one that lets you go through the dirs

[15:57:56]

justinh:

or not.. depending on whether anybody relly gives a damn about users too lazy to look into things themselves...

[15:57:58]

GreyFoxx:

hadee: I use the video list as well most of the time, and have about 3000 videos in the various directories. Takes 1 to 2 seconds max to start it

[15:58:01]

GreyFoxx:

over nfs

[15:58:22]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, do you have it run that scan every time it starts?

[15:58:34]

GreyFoxx:

I don't run the scan at all

[15:58:37]

hadees:

or are you saying it doesn't need the scan

[15:58:46]

GreyFoxx:

Well, lets define "scan"

[15:58:58]

justinh:

'run video manager'

[15:59:01]

GreyFoxx:

by scan I mean taking the info and shoving it into the database like the video manager

[15:59:03]

hadees:

when you have to go into settings

[15:59:07]

GreyFoxx:

I do not do that

[15:59:32]

GreyFoxx:

I only do that when I want to add info for videos I am keeping and want to add covers/meta data for

[15:59:40]

GreyFoxx:

otherwise it never gets run

[15:59:52]

justinh:

there's something else apparently missing in action.. mythvideo alleged improvements.. where do all these things go?

[16:00:20]

justinh:

massivel# long thread on the mailing list then it went dead. some good ideas in there too

[16:00:29]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, was there an option to set it up the way you have it? because i know new videos don't show up unless i scan for them

[16:00:45]

GreyFoxx:

hadee: "List/Gallery/Browse browses files"

[16:01:04]

justinh:

well, hometimey

[16:01:09]

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[16:01:12]

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[16:01:39]

GreyFoxx:

Mythvideo settings, General Settings page two

[16:01:58]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, you mean for the default viewing screen right?

[16:02:08]

Anduin:

hadees: the next page

[16:02:17]

hadees:

i have it using List but things don't automatically show up

[16:02:27]

hadees:

i'm not at home right now so i'll have to look later

[16:02:48]

Anduin:

and enable video list loads metadata (or whatever it is called)

[16:06:37]

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[16:06:50]

iamlindoro_:

Bye bye chanserv, we barely knew ye

[16:10:54]

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[16:11:00]

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[16:12:20]

ventz:

I have a very interesting problem that I can't find a solution to. I have setup nuvexport-xvid to encode my mpeg2 streams but while it's going, i get negative fames. Ex: processed: 6160 of -7669 frames (-80.32%), (and obviously, a negative % at that point). Anyone can offer any help?

[16:13:24]

ventz:

and by encode, i really meant transcode from mpeg2 (pvr-500) to xvid (.avi's)

[16:15:55]

xris:

ventz: ignore it? nuvexport just reads info from the programs it uses to transcode, and sometimes that info is wrong

[16:15:59]

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[16:18:53]

iamlindoro_:

haha, "HD-PVR shipping, discard tinfoil hats"

[16:19:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Is that on the Hauppauge site? ;-)

[16:19:38]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, Naw, some message to the users ML

[16:19:55]

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[16:22:10]

hti_pro:

some little windows script kiddie tried to coerce me to "crash" my computer in the mupen irc channel

[16:22:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: How quickly do you think the linux drivers will take?

[16:22:35]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, they'll be out before anyone has an HD-PVR

[16:23:05]

clever:

hti_pro: fun fun

[16:23:05]

iamlindoro_:

I don't want to front anyone out or speak for them, but they are more or less done-ish.

[16:23:32]

hti_pro:

i shouldv'e played along and made him think it worked, then laughed in his face

[16:23:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: so that would mean that either Hauppauge wrote them, or provided prototypes and specs to the 'right' coders... Cool. ;-)

[16:24:00]

clever:

ive seen a story of a script kiddie who attacked 127.0.0.1 after asking some1 his ip

[16:24:07]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, It's one of those, and not the former :)

[16:24:23]

beandog:

clever, I think thats on bash.org .. maybe, cant remember

[16:24:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: That's very good ne. ;-)

[16:24:27]

hti_pro:

serves them right

[16:24:31]

clever:

beandog: probly

[16:25:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro clever: it would be fun to create a NAT to his IP address, and have him attack that. ;-)

[16:25:15]

clever:

lol

[16:25:33]

clever:

id need to disable all my port forwardings or get a 2nd ip

[16:25:48]

clever:

and it cant forward certain things like ddos

[16:26:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

Or give him the IP of his default gateway, and let him hack away at his own ISP...

[16:26:21]

clever:

lol, yeah that will get him some fun

[16:26:30]

hti_pro:

give him a gov ip and let him have some fun with that

[16:26:38]

J-e-f-f-A:

there ya go!

[16:26:45]

clever:

fbi.com!

[16:27:15]

hti_pro:

nsa.gov

[16:27:17]

clever:

ive been threatened with the fact the fbi know who i am before

[16:27:25]

clever:

but it seemed like an empty threat

[16:28:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

Ugh... I hate the fact that google removes punctiation, like hyphens, slashes, etc, even if you quote the exact string you're looking for... ugh...

[16:28:46]

iamlindoro_:

put it in quotes

[16:28:54]

iamlindoro_:

oh sorry

[16:28:59]

iamlindoro_:

that's always worked for me

[16:29:18]

iamlindoro_:

quotation marks have always preserved apostrophes, etc for me

[16:29:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Doesn't work.... POS... It works for contiguous words, but still strips the punctuation...

[16:29:44]

ventz:

xris: but then I have no idea how long the transcoding will take :)

[16:30:03]

iamlindoro_:

ventz, "until it's done."

[16:30:08]

ventz:

heh

[16:30:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Check it out — go to google and seach for: "hd-pvr" linux

[16:30:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

then 2nd link is "HD PVR" — with no hyphen,..

[16:30:36]

ventz:

would anyone suggest using transcode over menucod for xvid?

[16:30:50]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, seriously, that is a pain

[16:30:55]

iamlindoro_:

I suggest ffmpeg above all others, personally

[16:31:12]

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[16:31:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

Yeah, especially when I was trying to search for "http:///" – an issue I had with a virus/spyware on a friend's pc 6 months ago... took forever to find a solution...

[16:31:36]

ventz:

iamlindoro_: because of the speed?

[16:31:56]

iamlindoro_:

ventz, Because it's by far the most capable and all other transcoders are based on it anyway

[16:31:59]

ventz:

i keep reading all over the place that i should use mencoder instead of ffmpeg (especially the ubuntu forums)

[16:32:13]

iamlindoro_:

that's because ubuntu gives you broken ffmpeg by default

[16:32:19]

iamlindoro_:

But that's Ubuntu's fault

[16:32:23]

ventz:

right, yea i already compiled my own

[16:32:30]

clever:

same

[16:32:33]

ventz:

well isn't that due to their copyright policy?

[16:32:43]

iamlindoro_:

not copyright, patent

[16:32:48]

ventz:

the xvid codec has a different patent i believe

[16:32:48]

ventz:

yea

[16:33:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: I even tried a 'regular expression' at one point, 'escaping' the characters, etc... didn't work... yuck.

[16:33:23]

beandog:

I hate that

[16:33:33]

beandog:

especially when are you looking for some rogue term.

[16:34:27]

clever:

trying to search for http wikipedia gave me the main page:P

[16:34:37]

ventz:

haha

[16:34:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: Exactly... I sent them a 'complaint' email about it... but it probably got deleted... I found the same to be true with all the others I tried too... Just stupid IMHO — a quoted string should not be stripped at all...

[16:34:50]

clever:

but it also had the one i wanted as a 2nd result for the site

[16:34:51]

ventz:

clever: well its technically correct

[16:35:26]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, I imagine there's some hidden documentation on how to search for an exact string

[16:35:36]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: That's a good reason that all tech marketing folk should be forced to come up with non-generic names for products.

[16:35:47]

sphery:

ever tried searching for the homepage of the file utility?

[16:35:47]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: I searched and searched and searchde... must be hidden pretty well! ;-)

[16:36:25]

sphery:

At least Microsoft gets it. They never use "common" names for products--i.e. MS Windows, MS Office, ...

[16:37:10]

clever:

kde names are more hard to guess

[16:37:30]

clever:

who would guess kate is an editor!

[16:37:40]

sphery:

clever: wikipedia http

[16:38:08]

beandog:

mmm, kate

[16:38:13]

beandog:

isn't there a kedit too?

[16:38:15]

J-e-f-f-A:

clever: It's an acronym.... Kde Advanced Text Editor... (probably) ;-) We have at least 30 of those at work... crazy...

[16:38:17]

clever:

sphery: ahh, yeah that has a slight effect

[16:38:29]

sphery:

:)

[16:38:37]

clever:

J-e-f-f-A: ahh, that makes sense

[16:38:57]

sphery:

I hardly use the google search page, anymore. Pretty much always use the browser location bar to do the google search.

[16:39:12]

clever:

my error handler is broken

[16:39:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Same difference....

[16:39:17]

clever:

if i type in google and hit enter

[16:39:18]

sphery:

and use it to do IMDB, TV.com, and wikipedia searches, too

[16:39:24]

clever:

it comes up with an error loading http://google/

[16:39:44]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: though from the location bar, you have to know what you're doing to "click the, 'I feel lucky'" button

[16:40:41]

iamlindoro_:

bork bork, I'm feelin' looky

[16:42:04]

** sphery wonders if the button on Google's page was inspired by whatever iamlindoro_ is quoting... **

[16:42:18]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.google.com/intl/xx-bork/

[16:42:25]

iamlindoro_:

Search for something and read the results :)

[16:42:45]

hti_pro:

what is the deal with the 'i feel lucky' button

[16:42:46]

iamlindoro_:

erm, never mind that last part :)

[16:42:53]

hti_pro:

just a random search or what

[16:42:53]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, It sends you to the first result

[16:42:59]

hti_pro:

ok

[16:45:14]

J-e-f-f-A:

Anyone (currently) using a ConvertX on their mythtv system?

[16:45:20]

beandog:

I was.

[16:45:44]

hti_pro:

what is convertx

[16:45:47]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, It's not the MPEG-4/droids you're looking for :)

[16:46:49]

** iamlindoro_ hates it when people use "MPEG-4" so that people will assume they mean h.264 **

[16:46:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: Any trouble setting it up? I just plugged mine in that I bought off of eBay about 18 months ago... Since I'm out of PCI slots... ;-)

[16:47:07]

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[16:47:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: I downloaded the driver and compiled it, and it creates a video device.... But I don't get a picture (but haven't rebooted my server either...)

[16:47:26]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, well I maintain the driver in portage, but I havent used mine in about a year. Best case scenario is to use an old kernel.

[16:47:36]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, although not *that* old... 2.6.18 or so

[16:47:50]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, vague memories here, so don't take any of that for actual advice.

[16:48:41]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: So, bork is the Swedish Chef translation? (Not positive on that, though some of the others are more straightforward: xx-elmer = Elmer Fudd, xx-hacker = 1337, xx-klingon = Klingon, xx-piglatin = Pig Latin)

[16:48:51]

iamlindoro_:

sphery, yep :)

[16:48:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

beandog: So FC8 64-bit won't work? ;-) 2.6.24.5–85.fc8

[16:49:03]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, I doubt it

[16:49:06]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: that took way too much of my time...

[16:49:14]

beandog:

J-e-f-f-A, theres patches out there for recent kernels. I haven't looked at em.

[16:49:18]

sphery:

I should have figured it out much sooner...

[16:50:07]

hti_pro:

hey guys, gettin ready to rebuild my mythback/front end, any suggestions on a distro with low overhead. I am looking to use the minimum amount of ram, cpu, diskspace, etc.

[16:50:11]

iamlindoro_:

sphery, Ha, didn't even know about the fudd one :)

[16:50:59]

hti_pro:

i tend toward debian based distros, are there better distros for myth

[16:51:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

^^^ What the heck?

[16:52:02]

sphery:

But, I did find a strange site: http://drawhere.com/ (use as: http://drawhere.com/site/www.google.com/intl/xx-elmer/ )

[16:52:23]

hti_pro:

J-e-f-f-A, did i say something strange

[16:52:35]

sphery:

perhaps he was confused by the fudd

[16:52:43]

sphery:

(not fud, though :)

[16:52:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: No — "Mode change "-e" for user J-e-f-f-A by Idoru." That's what I was referring to...

[16:53:05]

hti_pro:

oh ok

[16:53:22]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, pretty sure only you would be able to see that

[16:53:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Ah... didn't know that... ;-) dummy me!

[16:54:02]

iamlindoro_:

:)

[16:54:12]

hti_pro:

so any suggestions on distros for dedicated myth front/back end

[16:54:32]

sphery:

I've always wondered where to find a list of the meanings of those mode changes...

[16:54:36]

beandog:

hti_pro, gentoo

[16:54:40]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: I'm partial to Fedora, but it's a bit of a hardware hog too.. ;-)

[16:54:41]

** beandog is biased **

[16:54:52]

sphery:

hti_pro: MythBuntu. MythDora. KnoppMyth.

[16:54:58]

hti_pro:

im looking for a distro with as little overhead as possible

[16:55:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: I 2nd sperry's suggestions... ^^^^^

[16:55:19]

iamlindoro_:

Mythbuntu does do a surprisingly good job of staying slim for a *buntu

[16:56:39]

hti_pro:

i've used ubuntu with myth, but not mythbuntu, are the myth packages for mythbuntu maintained or are they just as on normal ubuntu

[16:56:50]

sphery:

avoiding overhead for a Myth box is like driving a mo-ped in a motocross...

[16:57:16]

iamlindoro_:

You can add them to normal ubuntu but you lose a lot of the point of mythbuntu by doing so

[16:57:23]

hti_pro:

i agree, just trying to get the most out of what i have, as i have no budget

[16:57:39]

iamlindoro_:

Installing from Mythbuntu ISOs is both dead easy/fast as well as fairly streamlined

[16:57:44]

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[16:57:50]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: The last frontend I built was on MythDora – pretty nice imho. (but again, a little 'heavy')

[16:58:15]

hti_pro:

does it default to gnomeor does it use a lighter wm

[16:58:27]

iamlindoro_:

uses xfce last I checked

[16:58:47]

hti_pro:

autoboot into myth, i assume

[16:58:54]

sphery:

hti_pro: iamlindoro_'s description is perfect. For example, with Ubuntu, you'll often end up with Compiz. The MythBuntu guys realize that's stupid^H^H^H^H^H^Hnot appropriate for Myth, so they changed it (to xfce, I think).

[16:59:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

I thought mythbuntu defaulted to gnome, at least the last version I installed ~6 months ago... Knoppmyth uses XFCE...

[16:59:28]

sphery:

hti_pro: GNOME is a desktop environment, not a Window Manager

[16:59:31]

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[16:59:49]

** J-e-f-f-A is all mixed up too then... ;-) oops! **

[16:59:55]

** iamlindoro_ hands sphery his check for the support **

[16:59:58]

hti_pro:

sphery: your right, before i take your suggestions i would like to post my specs

[17:00:26]

hti_pro:

AMD Duron 800MHz 256MB ram, Nvidia GEForce 5500 w/ 256MB

[17:00:36]

sphery:

good graphics.

[17:00:42]

sphery:

The CPU is a little lacking.

[17:00:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: Hope you're only going to do SD... ;-)

[17:00:48]

sphery:

The memory is a bit lacking

[17:00:51]

iamlindoro_:

You know you're in trouble when your GPU has more RAM than your system :)

[17:00:57]

iamlindoro_:

/equal

[17:00:57]

sphery:

it will work, but will not seem at all responsive

[17:01:01]

hti_pro:

SD only for now, until upgrade

[17:01:06]

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[17:01:08]

hti_pro:

i know

[17:01:09]

iamlindoro_:

s/upgrade/replacement/

[17:01:17]

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[17:01:56]

hti_pro:

my current system is 1.7GHz w/128MB ram same vid card

[17:02:07]

hti_pro:

but uses rambus so mem upgrade is not an option

[17:02:26]

hti_pro:

Pentium 4 cpu

[17:02:46]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: Wow, my first backend was an Athlon XP 1700 w/512mb ram... 3 or 4 years ago...

[17:02:55]

hti_pro:

a little sluggish on the frontend, but i was hoping doubling the ram might make up for the decrease in cpu

[17:03:00]

iamlindoro_:

Still about 4 generations newer than the systems black_nightmare is always in here asking about using

[17:03:12]

sphery:

hti_pro: J-e-f-f-A's first backend specs are more like what I'd suggest as a minimum for Myth.

[17:03:19]

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[17:03:30]

hti_pro:

wish i could go with that but as i said no budget

[17:03:38]

iamlindoro_:

You will probably want to go with a *very* light theme BTW

[17:03:45]

iamlindoro_:

no blootube for you

[17:04:00]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: and, IIRC, clever is using an 400MHz system (though maybe only for the MySQL server)

[17:04:13]

** J-e-f-f-A 's current backend is pretty quick – Athlon 64 X2 4800+ w/2GB ram and 2.4TB myth storage (Raid5) ;-) **

[17:04:47]

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[17:05:15]

** J-e-f-f-A just has to spend some money on new frontend systems... P4 1.7Ghz just barely plays 720p HD... (slight dropped frames)... **

[17:05:50]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A I have 2 Athlon XP's (2400+ and 2000+) with 512MB RAM and 4TB storage (no RAID) for backends. I have an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ w/ 2GB RAM for a frontend.

[17:06:10]

** iamlindoro_ must somewhat sheepishly admit that his Mythbuntu install is snappier than his old Debian + self-compile machine **

[17:06:13]

kormoc:

sphery, that's cause his 400 mhz system is the fastest in his basement

[17:06:20]

** J-e-f-f-A drools at sphery's systems! ;-) **

[17:06:31]

sphery:

J-e-f-f-A: I'd recommend you turn your system front-side back (i.e. frontend becomes the backend and backend becomes the frontend)

[17:06:53]

willcooke:

hmmm. My schema seems to be missing something. Can someone tell me what the type is on field "commfree" in table "channels"

[17:07:12]

sphery:

mine is basically the same as yours, but reversed (i.e. I believe the frontend should have the power--More power to the frontend!)

[17:07:13]

kormoc:

I have a core2duo (1.8 ghz) with 2 GB ram for my backend/frontend

[17:07:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: Well, I wanted to be able to transcode and have lots of tuners. I have 3 HD ATSC tuners and an Hauppauge PVR-500 in there now... And I use it as a frontend when I'm in my 'man cave' too... ;-)

[17:08:11]

iamlindoro_:

I have a E4500@ 2.2 Ghz w/ 4 GB RAM and a Q6600 w/ 4 GB of RAM because directhex told me I needed MOAR MHZ

[17:08:22]

sphery:

transcoding can be done on the frontend--just have to have the filesystem available locally (i.e. network mount)

[17:08:27]

iamlindoro_:

Well, that's true, but not because directhex told me to :)

[17:09:13]

hti_pro:

i have a better system for backend, but i keep running into probs, it is kind of old, but i have a dell pe6450 server with 4x733MHz P3 and 2gb ram but must use 5V pci cards, 5V usb/firewire cards are hard to find

[17:09:16]

sphery:

I want MOAR as I can get occasional glitches at very fast timestretch on 1080i

[17:09:21]

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[17:09:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: I've got an Athlon 64 3200+ mothboard ready to go into a system for a decent frontend... ;-)

[17:09:38]

sphery:

not bad

[17:10:00]

iamlindoro_:

sphery, My original reason was all the transcoding I was doing, but now that's no true any more so my NEW excuse for the machines is to play 1080p h.264 content :)

[17:10:24]

iamlindoro_:

I'll have to find yet another excuse if we ever get decent hardware acceleration

[17:10:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: And I'm currently using a cheap

[17:10:55]

sphery:

unfortunately I can't find a good enough excuse (as I don't have 1080p H.264) and mine does what it needs

[17:11:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

sphery: ... Semperon 3000+ system as a test backend... Might work OK for HD, haven't tried it yet...

[17:11:37]

sphery:

and I watch more TV on my 15.4" laptop screen than on my 67" HDTV (i.e. mainly watch TV when waiting around airports/hotels or on airplanes)

[17:12:26]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, You've got one of those Ath-uh-lon Semp-uh-rons, huh?

[17:12:27]

hti_pro:

what do you guys think about a hauppauge wintv usb2 hardware encoder card and storage drive both attached via usb 1.1

[17:12:38]

hti_pro:

definite failure is my first thought

[17:12:52]

iamlindoro_:

You would need to cut to bitrate to next to nothing to make it even kinda work

[17:13:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Yeah, it was like $70 with motherboard, memory, etc. Onboard video is GeForce 6100 — figured it might make a decent cheap frontend.

[17:13:22]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, Was just teasing you about "Semperon" :)

[17:13:46]

hti_pro:

i have that dell server using on average .5% cpu usage and it kills me that i can't use it as a backend

[17:14:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: um... yeah, considering that's only a max of 1.2MB/sec per device, I think it's a pipe dream...

[17:14:27]

J-e-f-f-A:

hti_pro: Consider the power consumption too... a newer system is likely to be much faster, and use much less power...

[17:14:54]

hti_pro:

i have had the hauppauge card work good on usb 1.1, so if i could get my hard drive on a firewire card, i think i should be good.

[17:15:15]

hti_pro:

J-e-f-f-A, true but the server runs 24/7 anyways, so power used is used regardless

[17:15:46]

sid3windr:

which means, replace it by a new one :p

[17:16:04]

iamlindoro_:

The earth is crying

[17:16:19]

sid3windr:

hti_pro: btw, most usb2 pci cards I saw are dual 3.3V/5V

[17:16:43]

hti_pro:

right now it runs all of my networking services, ie. bind, samba, nfs, and security dvr and is way underutilized at .5%cpu usage on average

[17:16:49]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: I know. ;-) No offense taken. I don't like Semperons, but the price was good... ;-)

[17:17:08]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, Naw, naw, just meant the spelling-- isn't it "Sempron?"

[17:17:18]

iamlindoro_:

Or maybe I'm smoking the crack again

[17:17:21]

hti_pro:

I bought one and it was strictly 3.3V and i looked and no one advertises the voltage capabilities, I don't want to end up with another card i can't use

[17:17:21]

iamlindoro_:

Not an AMD person

[17:17:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: oops. ;-)

[17:17:59]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: I guess I bought too many vowels! ;-)

[17:18:42]

iamlindoro_:

for high blood pressure/laughter, click here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=493959

[17:18:56]

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[17:19:13]

iamlindoro_:

Special preview "I've finally had some success turning my myth box into a PVR of downloaded torrents."

[17:22:06]

directhex:

but why do people do that?

[17:22:06]

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[17:22:13]

directhex:

mythtv is terrible as a file browser

[17:22:20]

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[17:22:24]

directhex:

it's the worst possible choice for a tv-card-free system!

[17:23:11]

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[17:24:18]

hti_pro:

can nfs handle tv capture

[17:24:29]

hti_pro:

or is there an alternative like iscsi

[17:24:46]

hti_pro:

just talking sd

[17:24:49]

hti_pro:

not hd

[17:25:45]

directhex:

yes

[17:26:16]

hti_pro:

yes nfs?? yes thers an alternative?? ???

[17:26:36]

sid3windr:

yes

[17:26:38]

Lynet:

yes ;-p

[17:26:43]

directhex:

we use a single nfs server for over 500 machines

[17:26:57]

hti_pro:

directhex: capturing video???

[17:27:06]

kormoc:

holy question mark overload batman!

[17:27:20]

hti_pro:

kormoc: sorry, just confused

[17:27:21]

directhex:

nothing so trite

[17:27:36]

directhex:

SD capture needs, what, an ABSOLUTE maximum of about 7 mbit

[17:28:03]

kormoc:

hti_pro, I used nfs for quite a few years to capture to. iscsi is major overkill

[17:28:19]

hti_pro:

directhex: what net medium do you use, fast ethernet, or gigabiyt

[17:28:27]

wagner:

i think my hauppauges stated something like 12mbit peak, but they usually only do ~5mbit

[17:28:30]

directhex:

gigabit

[17:28:38]

kormoc:

I used 100 mbit for a long time

[17:28:42]

directhex:

kids use 100mbit for game boys these days

[17:28:55]

** kormoc tells directhex to get off his lawn. **

[17:28:56]

hti_pro:

nfs work well over 100 mb it

[17:29:08]

directhex:

and why would it matter? maths! 7 < 100

[17:29:15]

hti_pro:

true

[17:29:17]

directhex:

well, other than for enormous values of 7

[17:29:25]

wagner:

big kids use gigabit for game consoles (although the xbox is still back at 10/100)

[17:29:29]

Lynet:

hti_pro: As long as the file system is fast enough..

[17:29:51]

Lynet:

directhex: s/enourmous/left-shifted/

[17:30:03]

hti_pro:

ok, that may be my issue then, ubuntu has a bug with the libata driver and ide drives

[17:30:08]

kormoc:

Lynet++

[17:30:23]

hti_pro:

mine is stuck at around 30MB/s but that should still work thouhg right

[17:30:23]

wagner:

for an idea, i am currently transferring from my file server to my primary backend at 45MB/s over NFS

[17:30:24]

kormoc:

why do people use ubuntu? jesus...

[17:30:40]

kormoc:

hti_pro, 30 > .9

[17:31:03]

directhex:

why do people use PATA? jesus...

[17:31:09]

hti_pro:

i get a lot of cpu wait time because of this though

[17:31:14]

kormoc:

maths... learn it... live it... love it.... grow old with it... get murdered in your sleep by it...

[17:31:17]

hti_pro:

directhex: because some people don't have a budget

[17:31:44]

kormoc:

hti_pro, when you are thinking bout iscsi and then say you don't have a budget to switch away from pata, my head... it explodes...

[17:31:45]

Lynet:

directhex: Old disks, old motherboards, cheapskates.

[17:32:05]

hti_pro:

cheapskates, or low income family

[17:32:08]

directhex:

kormoc wins, at least on that 1 point

[17:32:32]

hti_pro:

kormoc: i am just digging for info

[17:32:46]

sid3windr:

low income family with 24/7 server, 99.9% idle

[17:32:47]

sid3windr:

hmm.

[17:32:52]

sid3windr:

power that cheap in US? :]

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[17:33:04]

hti_pro:

that server cost me 50 bucks delivered from ebay

[17:33:09]

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[17:33:17]

directhex:

assume unencrypted network file transfer doesn't care about your cpu, it cares about your disks & network

[17:33:19]

kormoc:

hti_pro, he's talking bout power as in the utility bill

[17:33:57]

hti_pro:

alright im not a "very low income family" but i have better things to spend my money on that computers, ie.. my kids

[17:34:11]

hti_pro:

still i would say somewhat low income

[17:34:12]

directhex:

or an iscsi initiator

[17:34:21]

iamlindoro_:

Rig up some bikes to the server, that takes care of the kids AND the power needs

[17:34:26]

sid3windr:

:D

[17:34:45]

hti_pro:

my power bill is pretty good though, apartment on the interior basement of building, I hardly ever run my ac or heat

[17:34:50]

directhex:

kids can also be used as gold farmers on WoW, to earn extra cash

[17:34:58]

sid3windr:

and solving captcha's

[17:35:00]

wagner:

peddle faster! youre only pushing 30W! i cant even charge my laptop on that!

[17:35:01]

directhex:

yes!

[17:35:35]

hti_pro:

alright guys jokes on me, don't go hurting my feelings now

[17:35:46]

hti_pro:

i might cry

[17:36:11]

hti_pro:

not really

[17:36:14]

hti_pro:

j/k

[17:37:56]

hti_pro:

didn't mean to scare everybody away!!! :)

[17:38:33]

Lynet:

wagner: Kinda reminds me of dystopian sci-fi stories where people that are too sick/old/weak to contribute enough are put down because they are too expensive for the society.

[17:38:46]

wagner:

well you started talking mythtv and budget... and those dont really mix

[17:38:57]

sid3windr:

eheh, that's a fact :P

[17:39:07]

** sid3windr eyes the new parts for the 2 frontends and the new backend **

[17:39:43]

hti_pro:

well gotta go feed the slaves er... kids, so yall have fun now

[17:39:55]

Lynet:

wagner: I suppose in a post-peak-oil society, people who can't pedal fast enough to charge their own servers/gadgets will be put down.

[17:40:12]

sid3windr:

they'll surely be shutdown :p

[17:40:27]

wagner:

Lynet: have you ever tried generating electricity with a bicycle? its hard as hell, i doubt the average adult could do much better than 60W

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[17:41:18]

Lynet:

wagner: At least not sustained, so by that yardstick we better start switching to ARM pdq.

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[17:49:59]

hti_pro:

anyone tried clustering w/myth

[17:50:10]

kormoc:

hti_pro, to do what?

[17:50:27]

GreyFoxx:

and what aspect of "clustering" do you mean :)

[17:50:32]

hti_pro:

distribute load btween back/frontends

[17:50:42]

kormoc:

define load

[17:50:45]

GreyFoxx:

What load specifically

[17:51:00]

GreyFoxx:

my frontend by far uses more cpu than my backends ocmbined

[17:51:33]

hti_pro:

basically make two computers work as one and assign processes based on availablity and current cpu usage

[17:51:33]

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[17:51:43]

GreyFoxx:

We know what clustering is

[17:51:49]

GreyFoxx:

we are asking what specifically you are referring to

[17:52:02]

GreyFoxx:

mysql load, recording load, commercial flagging/transcoding

[17:52:16]

GreyFoxx:

all of that can be run or done on multiple machines in numerous ways

[17:52:32]

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[17:52:46]

iamlindoro_:

Whereas playback, not at all

[17:53:00]

hti_pro:

well considering mysql load and recording load are hardly an issue, i would be referring to comm flagging/transcoding

[17:53:12]

GreyFoxx:

hti: then yes, many do that

[17:53:23]

GreyFoxx:

just run a basic backend on your frontend or other boxes

[17:53:37]

GreyFoxx:

and set the mythtv-setup option to allow jobs to be done by machines ot her than the one that recorded it

[17:53:40]

GreyFoxx:

done

[17:54:01]

hti_pro:

i have this setup but myth always uses my masterbackend/frontend for all jobs

[17:54:14]

kormoc:

it shouldn't

[17:55:00]

GreyFoxx:

My master and slave backend both do jobs, even for content recorded by the other

[17:55:13]

wagner:

are your jobs sequential, such that you only have one at a time available to run?

[17:55:19]

hti_pro:

i also have it set to stream and delete content from the slave backend to master backend and it doesnt do that either

[17:55:27]

iamlindoro_:

there's a tickbox that says to only run jobs on the backend that did the recording, make sure that's off

[17:55:32]

hti_pro:

wagner: maybe

[17:55:45]

GreyFoxx:

hti: stream and delete? I'm not sure what setting you are referring to there

[17:55:46]

kormoc:

hti_pro, so you can't watch any content the slave backend recorded?

[17:55:52]

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[17:56:14]

hti_pro:

yes, but it remains on the slave backend, and doesn't work at all through mythweb

[17:56:34]

kormoc:

hti_pro, there's no other options to do it other ways currently

[17:56:44]

GreyFoxx:

hti: I'v never encountered any setting that will move the content from one backend to another

[17:56:48]

kormoc:

hti_pro, where ever you got the idea of this 'stream and delete' from, it doesn't exist

[17:57:04]

hti_pro:

it was an option i saw in mythtv-setup i believe

[17:57:06]

hti_pro:

i will check

[17:57:08]

iamlindoro_:

Think he means the always stream via master backend setting

[17:57:12]

hti_pro:

maybe i did'nt understand it

[17:57:41]

GreyFoxx:

hti: Most just have box backends write to a single datastore via nfs/smbfs/whatever

[17:57:54]

GreyFoxx:

but I've done the seperate locations thing before and it worked fine

[17:58:20]

hti_pro:

nevermind i can't check for it right now, im currently recording

[17:58:53]

hti_pro:

until now i was told that nfs over ethernet was not sufficient

[17:59:09]

iamlindoro_:

Not so, recording bandwidth is really comparatively tiny

[17:59:20]

GreyFoxx:

hti: told by who ?

[17:59:25]

directhex:

you were told shit by retards

[17:59:31]

iamlindoro_:

assuming you're not trying to use 10 Mbit wired or most wireless

[17:59:32]

directhex:

people who dribble and walk in the road

[17:59:59]

hti_pro:

GreyFoxx: im not sure, directhex: i think your right

[18:00:19]

wagner:

you know, for their peformance Scythe coolers are a PAIN IN THE ASS

[18:00:22]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro_, not a chance, wired 100M all the way

[18:00:24]

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[18:00:28]

GreyFoxx:

my slave backend records far more material than my master, and all of the data is on a nfs mount from the master :)

[18:00:48]

iamlindoro_:

hti_pro, 100 Mbit should handle a fair number of boxes-- GigE will take away your worries entirely

[18:01:14]

hti_pro:

GreyFoxx: that would be an ideal setup for me, as my master backend/frontend is quite slow

[18:01:53]

kormoc:

gige + jumbo frames :P

[18:02:16]

GreyFoxx:

I've never encounted anyone using jumbo frames

[18:02:27]

** kormoc raises his hand **

[18:02:30]

GreyFoxx:

Most of the gear I see people using is the standard 1500byte stuff

[18:02:35]

wagner:

i have too much non-gigabit and other non-jumbo hardware to run jumbo

[18:02:41]

hti_pro:

is it suitable to use a general purpose lan for myth or should i seperate this from my gen purp lan

[18:02:44]

GreyFoxx:

korm: What sort of performance do you get off it? Basically limited by the speed of the drives ?

[18:02:45]

kormoc:

it's the only way my cards get over 25 megs per second

[18:02:53]

wagner:

its not worth it to try to set up VLANs to otherwise do so

[18:02:58]

GreyFoxx:

hti: as long as you are using a switch your general lan would be fine

[18:03:02]

J-e-f-f-A:

I tried running jumbo frames, and ran into other issues, so dropped it back down to 1500...

[18:03:16]

wagner:

kormoc: im running non-jumbo and i peak at 50MB/s on a single transfer

[18:03:32]

wagner:

at work we run non-jumbo on our file server, and ive benchmarked it at 90MB/s

[18:03:56]

hti_pro:

wagner: what kind of eth card does it use

[18:04:02]

hti_pro:

intel pro/1000

[18:04:04]

hti_pro:

??

[18:04:07]

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[18:04:22]

kormoc:

GreyFoxx, I went from 10 mb/sec or so with 100, moved to gigabit and it topped out at around 25 mb/sec, added jumbo and it now pumps around 85 mb/sec

[18:04:26]

hti_pro:

cheap eth cards are generally crap

[18:04:39]

wagner:

file server, dvr, and application server run intel pros

[18:04:40]

kormoc:

this is intel pro 1000 to intel pro 1000

[18:04:55]

wagner:

i still run a good 35MB/s to my intel desktop with a cheap onboard NIC

[18:04:59]

kormoc:

cross-over cable

[18:05:01]

wagner:

and thats over samba

[18:05:11]

hti_pro:

intels are pretty good eth cards, i try to stay away from cheap cards

[18:05:20]

iamlindoro_:

Heh, pity the fools who don't get that wallop and try to log in later

[18:05:30]

hti_pro:

does your intel desktop use an intel onboard eth card

[18:05:49]

GreyFoxx:

korm: Cool, I top out about 30MB using gige, haven't tried jumbo

[18:06:07]

wagner:

hti_pro: i dont know what it is off hand, but its not intel

[18:06:15]

wagner:

they usually only put those onboard on server grade hardwarew

[18:06:50]

hti_pro:

wagner: an intel board with non intel eth card onboard, all of the intel boards i have (only 2) have intel pro/100's on board

[18:06:52]

kormoc:

A lot of the intel gigabit network cards onboard on mobos are sadly not able to use jumbo frames :/

[18:07:02]

hti_pro:

not really an expert tho

[18:08:30]

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[18:08:53]

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[18:09:22]

wagner:

i bought a pair of intel 1000/pro MTs off newegg a few years ago

[18:09:32]

wagner:

they both failed in about a year, turns out they were counterfeit

[18:09:36]

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[18:09:44]

hti_pro:

thats shitty

[18:10:03]

wagner:

intel confiscated them, so newegg replaced them for free

[18:10:14]

hti_pro:

thats nice

[18:10:27]

kormoc:

how would intel confiscate them? did they show up at your house with guns?

[18:10:47]

wagner:

no, i sent them to intel for warrently repair/replacement

[18:10:57]

iamlindoro_:

Exactly. When private entities take things from other private entities against their will, we call those "thefts" :)

[18:11:01]

hti_pro:

i must say i love my dual intel pro/1000 card. Wish i had a 64bit 66MHz pci slot on my desktops

[18:11:04]

iamlindoro_:

or at worst, robberies :)

[18:11:15]

kormoc:

they can't confiscate tehm, the most they can do is refuse warrantee service

[18:11:34]

wagner:

well they refused service, and then they kept the cards

[18:11:47]

kormoc:

They can't legally do that. You should have sued

[18:11:48]

hti_pro:

technically they could be used as evidence if a charges are filed against the counterfitter

[18:12:09]

kormoc:

hti_pro, sure, but that's for law enforcement to collect, not a private company

[18:12:23]

wagner:

why would i sue, they mailed me the proper paperwork such that newegg gave me brand new cards

[18:12:38]

hti_pro:

possessing counterfit cards is possession of illegally marketed product

[18:12:45]

wagner:

i just wanted functional cards, so they gave me what i wanted

[18:12:47]

hti_pro:

kormoc: i think you are right about that

[18:13:15]

kormoc:

wagner, still seems majority shady.

[18:13:22]

hti_pro:

i know alot of companies wouldnt do that

[18:13:46]

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[18:13:51]

hti_pro:

that kind of raises a question about newegg, how do we know that all of their products are not counterfit

[18:13:55]

kormoc:

personally, if I sent in a card into intel and they kept it and threw paper work back at me, I'd be pissed...

[18:14:02]

hti_pro:

what kind of people are they buying product from

[18:14:13]

clever:

yeah....

[18:14:23]

kormoc:

hti_pro, mostly synex and some techdata....

[18:14:27]

iamlindoro_:

If the DoD can end up with counterfeit Cisco routers by way of authorized Cisco resellers, then anything can happen

[18:14:29]

wagner:

kormoc: i was pissed, and i bitched and complained to everyone around me

[18:14:41]

wagner:

until i spent 30 seconds on the phone with newegg and got new cards

[18:14:52]

hti_pro:

iamlindoro, that is hilarious

[18:15:01]

wagner:

newegg was damn quick dealing with it

[18:15:12]

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[18:15:21]

hti_pro:

well they don't want you uncovering their questionable suppliers

[18:15:27]

wagner:

right

[18:16:14]

wagner:

well now i must send my desktop motherboard in for repair

[18:16:26]

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[18:16:27]

hti_pro:

whats wrong with it

[18:16:43]

wagner:

faulty memory controller (or northbridge, or something)

[18:17:01]

wagner:

it heats up, goes bad, and i get unstable memory access

[18:17:02]

hti_pro:

hmm

[18:17:30]

wagner:

if i boot straight into memtest after a crash, it just spits out bad sectors as fast as it scans them

[18:17:43]

hti_pro:

i bet that is a headache from hell

[18:17:50]

wagner:

ive tried multiple modules, same problem. so it has to be the board

[18:18:01]

wagner:

well i bought the board back in february

[18:18:23]

hti_pro:

are there any bulging capacitors on the board

[18:18:24]

wagner:

so ive lasted this long, just because i didnt want to go through the hassle of taking the computer apart and being without it for a week

[18:18:32]

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[18:18:33]

hti_pro:

they can cause a lot of headache in many areas

[18:18:51]

wagner:

not that is readily visable

[18:19:05]

wagner:

basically, i just run it underclocked, and its usually fine

[18:19:11]

hti_pro:

board probs are a real hassle

[18:19:35]

hti_pro:

have you tried putting a fan or heatsink on the northbridge

[18:19:51]

wagner:

well it has a big ass passive sink

[18:19:55]

wagner:

that circles the processor

[18:20:19]

wagner:

and besides, if felt it after a crash, and it wasnt considerably hot

[18:20:26]

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[18:20:31]

wagner:

it may be as simple as poor contact with the chip

[18:20:42]

wagner:

but im not going to remove it and void my warrenty

[18:21:20]

hti_pro:

sometimes it doesn't take much heat at all to cause metal to expand/contract, the heat of a persons breath can be enough

[18:21:56]

hti_pro:

is it in a socket or soldered to the board

[18:22:25]

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[18:22:38]

wagner:

soldered i would assume... i cant actually tell since its hidden under the heatsink

[18:22:45]

wagner:

whatever is typical for a P35

[18:23:21]

hti_pro:

i think most all northbridges are soldered these days, i am a pretty skilled electronics tech. and i wouldnt even tackle that one

[18:23:22]

wagner:

yeah, its soldered, the package is flush against the board

[18:24:44]

wagner:

MSI has you access their RMA page directly from an IP

[18:24:45]

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[18:25:08]

wagner:

however it would appear said page is frequenly hopping around

[18:25:21]

wagner:

one IP stops responding, i try the link again, and it sends me to a different IP

[18:26:14]

hti_pro:

dns names can point to multiple ips

[18:26:34]

hti_pro:

commonly used web server load balancing

[18:26:42]

wagner:

yes, but it is a single, consistant name

[18:27:01]

wagner:

not an ip that stops responding after a few minutes

[18:27:12]

kormoc:

dupondje, now, live-tv doesn't stop every x time for me. What's your problem?

[18:27:49]

dupondje:

it stops @ :00 & :30

[18:27:56]

kormoc:

what do you mean by stops?

[18:28:06]

kormoc:

exits live tv? switches to a different file to record?

[18:28:11]

dupondje:

it just stops playing ...

[18:28:15]

dupondje:

like it locks

[18:28:23]

kormoc:

what's the logs say?

[18:28:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

dupondje: Do you have listing sources?

[18:28:39]

dupondje:

then I just need to press ESC and start LiveTV again

[18:28:42]

dupondje:

and it works again

[18:28:50]

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[18:29:13]

dupondje:

2008-05–29 19:00:01.633 Finished recording Unknown: channel 5112

[18:29:23]

kormoc:

so you don't have a listings source

[18:29:27]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[18:29:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

dupondje: So you don't have listings... hehe (kormoc)

[18:29:41]

stuarta:

that's better

[18:29:47]

dupondje:

2008-05–29 19:30:01.918 Finished recording Unknown: channel 5112

[18:29:55]

dupondje:

every :00 & :30

[18:29:57]

dupondje:

:s

[18:30:04]

gnome42:

dupondje: Does this ticket describe your problem? http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5261

[18:30:05]

dupondje:

else it works fine

[18:30:05]

kormoc:

dupondje, so setup your listings?

[18:30:45]

wagner:

FUCK

[18:30:50]

stuarta:

no thanks

[18:30:54]

wagner:

it takes 48 hours to process an RMA

[18:30:56]

gnome42:

hahaha

[18:30:58]

kormoc:

wagner, you're not my type

[18:31:12]

stuarta:

RMA's are always a bitch

[18:31:12]

wagner:

but i had to disassemble the computer to get the S/N, because its on a sticker on the back of the motherboard

[18:32:10]

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[18:32:31]

dupondje:

kormoc: it seems so, but I don't have schedules ... thats why its prolly every 30mins

[18:32:33]

hti_pro:

sound typical

[18:32:45]

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[18:33:19]

iamlindoro_:

Read the ticket fully, they propose a simple fix

[18:33:56]

kormoc:

dupondje, without schedules, you're not really recording, so why not use a different tv watching app?

[18:33:57]

directhex:

wagner, dmidecode!

[18:34:05]

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[18:34:12]

wagner:

dmidecode?

[18:34:18]

dupondje:

kormoc: like ?

[18:34:36]

iamlindoro_:

Like all the ones we suggested to you lat time you were in here as Durex :)

[18:34:38]

kormoc:

dupondje, tvtime, xawtv, mplayer?

[18:34:42]

gbee:

tvtime

[18:34:55]

kormoc:

wagner, extra info in the bios sometimes has serial numbers and the like

[18:35:05]

directhex:

wagner, well, it works on our dells. seems blank on this abit

[18:35:25]

dupondje:

well tvtime doesn't work with DVB-T ...

[18:35:33]

iamlindoro_:

And then I said, like last time....

[18:35:35]

directhex:

kaffeine's probably the best dvb-t player

[18:35:37]

wagner:

well if that were available, it would make me sad... so im going to say its not available

[18:35:39]

iamlindoro_:

VLC, mplayer, etc.....

[18:35:55]

iamlindoro_:

See TWO FREAKING DAYS AGO when you were in here as |Durex| and asked the same questions

[18:36:01]

dupondje:

MythTV works just smooth ... but this is the only problem, can't be so hard to fix ? :s

[18:36:10]

iamlindoro_:

you said that two days ago too

[18:36:14]

iamlindoro_:

and then we said

[18:36:19]

kormoc:

dupondje, if you think it's not too hard, we look forward to your patches

[18:36:22]

iamlindoro_:

"[14:03:31] iamlindoro: |DuReX|: Then I imagine you'll get right on fixing it?"

[18:36:27]

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[18:36:32]

gbee:

it's not hard, setup guide data

[18:36:34]

gnome42:

dupondje: I am interested in fixing that bug. But I need someone who can reproduce the bug (like you :) and who can apply a patch and recompile.

[18:37:03]

dupondje:

gnome42: I can try yes

[18:37:07]

gbee:

it's not a bug, mythtv is designed to work with guide data

[18:37:29]

kormoc:

gbee, well, it's a bug with a unsupported setup :P

[18:38:24]

gbee:

not even that, we default to ending recordings on the hour or half hour with no guide data, it's a 'best guess' since most shows run on that schedule

[18:38:26]

dupondje:

it just shouldn't stop playing ? :)

[18:39:00]

hti_pro:

i think we should have a mode where it skips the time shifting so we can play video games

[18:39:16]

kormoc:

hti_pro, ugh... use different tv input...

[18:39:36]

stuarta:

i was going to suggest the off switch :)

[18:39:47]

gbee:

hti_pro: it would still be too slow – the simple act of passthrough takes a second

[18:40:04]

wagner:

think a walgreens would have canned air?

[18:40:12]

kormoc:

doubtful

[18:40:14]

hti_pro:

it would be nice to use the svideo input of the capture card, and control everything through the gui.

[18:40:30]

kormoc:

hti_pro, most capture cards add a sec or two themselves

[18:40:36]

kormoc:

esp mpeg encoders

[18:40:46]

wagner:

im out, and i dont want to make the 40mi trek to microcenter

[18:40:59]

kormoc:

hitchhike?

[18:41:01]

hti_pro:

set top dvrs do it, any idea what their secret is

[18:41:14]

kormoc:

hti_pro, specialized hardware

[18:41:16]

stuarta:

passthrough?

[18:41:28]

hti_pro:

hmmm

[18:41:42]

kormoc:

designed for that purpose specifically?

[18:41:56]

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[18:42:07]

iamlindoro_:

the HD-PVR should work nicely for videro-games, though, with the passthrough.

[18:42:13]

directhex:

why buy an hd pvr to play, not record, videogames?

[18:42:18]

iamlindoro_:

Will be nice to point people at that

[18:42:21]

directhex:

just plug straight into the screen

[18:42:27]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, I just meant for the play+ record solution

[18:42:39]

iamlindoro_:

you're right, different

[18:42:45]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, it all depends on the latency...

[18:43:17]

iamlindoro_:

kormoc, Well presumably it's not doing much/anything to the passthrough

[18:43:33]

kormoc:

you never know!

[18:43:36]

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[18:43:38]

iamlindoro_:

indeed not

[18:43:44]

hti_pro:

or how about recording from a vcr to myth, is there a way to select alternate inputs, ie.. svideo and record from it

[18:43:46]

iamlindoro_:

Find out soon enough hopefully :)

[18:44:16]

kormoc:

hti_pro, myth doesn't really support that. the typical response is to use another app to record from the vcr

[18:44:17]

iamlindoro_:

recording from a VCR from myth isn't the best idea, better to just cat /dev/video# > file.mpg for those purposes (assuming hardware encoder)

[18:44:49]

asathoor:

I want to turn my laptop into a myth-client, should I install mythfrontend, and connect to my server?

[18:45:13]

iamlindoro_:

asathoor, Yes.

[18:45:13]

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[18:45:25]

asathoor:

thanx iamlindoro

[18:45:35]

hti_pro:

but it would be a nice and usefull feature i think for the less tech saavy, ie. my wife

[18:45:59]

iamlindoro_:

So would my MythFellatio plugin, but I don't want to open-source it

[18:46:06]

hti_pro:

and another step toward mythtv as a complete media application

[18:46:07]

sphery:

though recording from a VCR isn't hard (i.e. just define a source with exactly one channel for the VCR), Myth is expecting guide data, so you end up having to set up a manual recording to make it record the right amount, and you end up with extra before/after, so you have to edit

[18:46:12]

sphery:

Or you can just use another app...

[18:46:15]

sphery:

like dd

[18:46:24]

kormoc:

hti_pro, patches would be welcome!

[18:47:39]

hti_pro:

kormoc: I wish I was a worthy programmer, I have ideas that never stop. If only it was written in bash scripting :) (<-- not really that funny, huh)

[18:47:49]

iamlindoro_:

cue ideas = assholes remark

[18:48:28]

sphery:

Oh, and if anyone playing XBox 360 decides to use the passthrough (even with HD PVR) to play games, look me up on XBox Live. I could use the confidence boost from actually winning every once in a while (even if it requires the other person experiencing a sub-second delay for me to win).

[18:48:29]

kormoc:

hti_pro, I helped a guy write a ftp app in bash with raw sockets, it could be done :P

[18:48:47]

Lynet:

iamlindoro: The idea:asshole ratio isn't 1:1. I have only one ahole, but several ideas.

[18:49:05]

sphery:

kormoc: I've heard that it only takes about 40 lines of Perl to replace all of MythTV.

[18:49:08]

iamlindoro_:

Lynet, Open source and myth in particular is thick with "idea mean."

[18:49:12]

iamlindoro_:

er idea men

[18:49:15]

stuarta:

sphery: hahaha

[18:49:25]

** stuarta remembers that mailing list post **

[18:50:09]

iamlindoro_:

Everyone assumes that their ideas are *original*, that's the problem. It's generally more of a "I'm the dev and I don't care about that so I'm not about to do it for you" sort of thing.

[18:50:11]

sphery:

I wish I remembered it well enough to look it up. Much more incredible when other people can actually read it.

[18:50:12]

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[18:51:56]

hti_pro:

i am currently teaching myself C, but I think C++ is a little ways off

[18:51:57]

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[18:53:48]

sphery:

hti_pro: no problem, most C++ projects are actually C code compiled with a C++ compiler. :)

[18:53:49]

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[18:55:03]

hti_pro:

well maybe im not that far off then.

[18:55:04]

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[18:55:19]

hti_pro:

gotta go drag the children through the store, be back later

[18:55:26]

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[18:56:30]

gbee:

I think learning the concepts of OO vs procedural is probably more useful than anything

[18:56:45]

gbee:

it's probably easier to go from C++ to C than the other way around

[18:57:13]

hti_pro:

i do know some visual basic, maybe i should just jump right into c++

[18:57:21]

hti_pro:

know of any good c++ tutorials

[18:57:22]

kormoc:

procedural to oo was hard for me

[18:57:31]

kormoc:

still attempting to feel it out a bit

[18:57:55]

PatrickDK:

I can't remember that far back

[18:57:59]

PatrickDK:

have been using both for so ong

[18:58:00]

PatrickDK:

long

[18:58:33]

hti_pro:

alright well i will talk to you guys later

[18:58:35]

kormoc:

the main issue was noone explained what OO was, just how to use it, and thus it seems stupid and strange

[18:58:40]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx, btw, did you hear your Blu-Ray holy grail is coming (on my birthday, no less)?

[18:58:49]

kormoc:

once I figured out what OO actually was, it was a lot easier

[18:59:11]

sphery:

hti_pro: remember that VB is /not/ object-/oriented/, it's object-based. There's a *very* big difference.

[18:59:18]

sphery:

VB.NET is OO

[19:00:00]

sphery:

hti_pro: Though I agree with gbee--learning OOP first, then going back to non-OO is a better idea.

[19:00:00]

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[19:01:00]

sphery:

and if you do, you'll often take OO ideas into the non-OO language (just means you have to write the code to support those OO concepts not provided by your language)

[19:04:01]

gbee:

kormoc: I found the same thing, actually grasping the concept of OO is difficult if you come to it from proceedural languages – none of the reading material out there does a good job of explaining what it actually is

[19:04:02]

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[19:04:05]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, http://kotaku.com/5011613/space-siege-is-full . . . utoplay=true

[19:04:16]

iamlindoro_:

So. Much. Better looking that Starcraft 2.

[19:04:18]

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[19:05:33]

iamlindoro_:

In other Old-School-remake news, new Splatterhouse!!

[19:05:34]

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[19:06:06]

gbee:

it's a lot easier to get stuck in and learn through doing, it's hard to describe the difference between well written proceedural code and OO code, it's one of those things that becomes clearer once you are using it

[19:06:51]

gbee:

because C++ includes proceedural concepts alongside OO, albeit on a smaller scale, it's easier to go from C++ to C IMHO

[19:07:59]

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[19:13:05]

iamlindoro_:

Mmmm, hauppauge charged me for our precioussssssssss....

[19:13:06]

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[19:13:18]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, means it's shipped!

[19:13:21]

wagner:

charge means ship!

[19:13:27]

iamlindoro_:

Woo hoo!

[19:14:03]

iamlindoro_:

Hope I was smart enough to ship it to work

[19:14:22]

wagner:

you think theyll require a signature?

[19:14:24]

iamlindoro_:

D'oh, no I wasn't. I feel a sick day coming on

[19:14:43]

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[19:15:45]

iamlindoro_:

I paid for two-day, and will assume I won't be getting Saturday Delivery, so looks like Monday is the day to be sick :)

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[19:31:22]

magnets^^:

does mythtv support DVB(freeview)?

[19:31:46]

wagner:

yes

[19:32:39]

magnets^^:

but not on a default compile, right?

[19:32:54]

iamlindoro_:

most packages have it included

[19:33:07]

iamlindoro_:

depends on your distro, but almost always

[19:33:15]

magnets^^:

i compiled from source

[19:33:20]

iamlindoro_:

then you need --enable-dvb

[19:33:24]

magnets^^:

ok, thanks

[19:33:36]

iamlindoro_:

np

[19:33:51]

magnets^^:

do i need to "make uninstall" or can i just install over my previous install?

[19:34:15]

iamlindoro_:

wouldn't hurt to make uninstall, but assuming the same --prefix=, probably 6 of one, half dozen of the other

[19:34:51]

magnets^^:

ok, ty

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[19:35:55]

loops:

Anyone know what the single letter in the first column in Program Recording Priorities means? Is there a help key?

[19:36:21]

iamlindoro_:

loops, See the "everyday use" portion of the myth documentation for definitions of each of them

[19:36:26]

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[19:37:19]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/User_Man . . . e_Recordings

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[19:39:31]

loops:

iamlindoro, i'm searching for "everyday use" on the the myth site and don't see it

[19:39:49]

iamlindoro_:

I just gave you the link

[19:40:15]

iamlindoro_:

although it's possible you're talking about another set of letters, but they may be the same

[19:40:48]

loops:

iamlindoro_, ah okay.. didn't realize that's what you meant. Yeah i don't see the column described in that doc.

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Mode for #mythtv-users by irc.freenode.net : +o ChanServ

[19:41:03]

iamlindoro_:

Tell us which letters are present there

[19:41:12]

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[19:41:49]

loops:

For Manage Recordings -> Set Recording Priorities first column has: A, C, and d

[19:42:29]

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[19:45:26]

iamlindoro_:

Well, I schedule from mythweb, but if I had to guess I'd say Active, Current or Conflict, and Deactivated

[19:45:27]

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[19:45:28]

loops:

and an "O"

[19:45:32]

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[19:45:42]

kormoc:

conflict

[19:45:47]

kormoc:

R is recording iirc

[19:46:18]

loops:

That makes sense but when i go into "Upcoming Recordings" it says "No Conflicts"

[19:46:28]

loops:

which is what has me a bit puzzled

[19:47:08]

iamlindoro_:

It may be no conflicts if it can schedule it for a later time

[19:47:22]

iamlindoro_:

Which it will do given the right recording rules

[19:47:50]

iamlindoro_:

ie Myth often pushes my recordings of Galactica and Firefly around to get at higher priority stuff that airs at the same time

[19:48:34]

loops:

Yeah, i was just in setting some priorities, it's the first time i bothered to wonder what that first column actually meant

[19:49:01]

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[19:49:19]

iamlindoro_:

I find the recording rules to be most easily visualized in mythweb, but do what works for you

[19:50:14]

loops:

iamlindoro, let me take a look, i have mythweb setup but only the wife uses it

[19:51:18]

iamlindoro_:

Upcoming recordings will show everything scheduled-- a red ring around one of them is a conflict, green across the board = a-ok

[19:51:29]

loops:

iamlindoro, Ah, that is so much better.. A = any channel, C = specific channel

[19:51:46]

iamlindoro_:

Ah, I see. then I learned something today too :)

[19:52:38]

loops:

"d" = find one daily

[19:52:53]

loops:

"O" = don't record override

[19:53:16]

loops:

iamlindoro, thanks for the mythweb tip, i'll use that from now on

[19:53:39]

iamlindoro_:

It's definitely one of the best parts of mythtv, no doubt about it

[19:54:10]

iamlindoro_:

Hard to imagine any other PVR having such a sensible and straightforward way to access all of your rules, schedules, and recordings than that

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[20:24:20]

Andreaz:

Can i find the db-layout anywhere? it seems that some tables are missing here... :(

[20:24:56]

J-e-f-f-A:

Andreaz: show tables and describe <tablename> ???

[20:25:08]

stuarta:

that won't help if the tables are missing

[20:25:13]

Andreaz:

:)

[20:25:41]

J-e-f-f-A:

It will help if they're missing from the wiki... ;-)

[20:26:30]

stuarta:

and rather than describe tablename, it's prob better to do show create table...

[20:28:11]

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J-e-f-f-A:

Andreaz: Is this any help? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category:DB_Table

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[20:29:47]

Andreaz:

hehe, found it the same moment, thankyou... That's what i was looking for...

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[20:32:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

Andreaz: Looks like it hasn't been updated since 0.19, but most of it should still be applicable...

[20:32:49]

Andreaz:

I suspect the same. Any update failure... Long time no look at the logs. Everything else is working fine...

[20:33:04]

iamlindoro_:

Woo hoo, HD-PVR tracking number received

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[20:41:01]

kormoc:

iamlindoro, as you track it going to russia?

[20:41:41]

stoth:

iamlindoro_ nice

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iamlindoro_:

kormoc, hehe

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[20:53:58]

iamlindoro_:

cue the "In soviet russia, you PVR record YOU" lines

[20:54:14]

iamlindoro_:

minus one of those "yous"

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[21:19:14]

iamlindoro_:

Oh goodie, a new VIA processor to try to convince people not to run Myth on

[21:19:45]

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[21:21:36]

directhex:

iamlindoro, 4 times more powerful than c7, clock for clock, according to via!

[21:21:37]

Penfold_:

:)

[21:21:44]

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[21:22:33]

directhex:

iamlindoro, if that's true, at face value, that means ~33% better clock for clock than a san diego core athlon64

[21:22:37]

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[21:23:21]

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[21:23:28]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, 4 times more powerful than a C7... let's see, carry the one... according to my calculations, this places it somewhere between a potato chip and a chocolate chip in terms of capability

[21:23:44]

EvilGuru:

They probably used a single instruction for the 'tests'

[21:24:02]

directhex:

it's out-of-order

[21:24:05]

directhex:

which is a big step

[21:24:18]

directhex:

go using an in-order cpu, and you get itanium with gcc

[21:24:49]

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[21:24:49]

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[21:24:52]

EvilGuru:

I thought they had been working to improve GCC on Itanium chips

[21:25:11]

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[21:25:26]

iamlindoro_:

I expect this VIA processor will be powerful like the last VIA chipset *cough* "accelerated MPEG-4" *cough*

[21:31:05]

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[21:32:33]

EvilGuru:

Does it feature a floating point unit at all?

[21:33:14]

directhex:

EvilGuru, or say "fuck it" and install icc

[21:34:15]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Huge condo fire out here in peabody: http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO79519/ — that's actually from 1 hr ago – the entire building is pretty much gone now.. insane...

[21:34:49]

iamlindoro_:

J-e-f-f-A, Ick! That looks like at least a few hundred condos

[21:34:53]

directhex:

ooh, x86–64, SSE, and yes, it has a float-capable execution unit

[21:35:26]

directhex:

"The media micro-op can be a floating-point add, divide or square root, or a SIMD integer instruction."

[21:35:48]

directhex:

"The VIA Isaiah Architecture places significant emphasis on high-performance floating-point execution. It can execute four floating-point adds and four floating-point multiplies every clock"

[21:35:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: That building is like 4 floors, and at least 4 condos per floor, so 16 familes at least — probably more... The buildings behind are not on fire – just that one huge building...

[21:36:21]

iamlindoro_:

Looks like a lot more than 16, but who knows

[21:36:49]

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[21:37:10]

iamlindoro_:

One assumes each deck is a seperate condo, chich from this perspecitve would make it 16–20 a floor

[21:37:14]

iamlindoro_:

er which

[21:37:39]

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[21:37:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Yeah, probably more like 28...

[21:38:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: depends on how big the condos themselves are... if they're 1500 sq ft, then it may only be 20 or so...

[21:38:30]

iamlindoro_:

bummer, anyway. Hopefully no fatalities

[21:38:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: None reported, no injuries even, so far...

[21:38:54]

iamlindoro_:

Good, thankfully it's the work day

[21:40:07]

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[21:43:42]

sphery:

weird... I just went to my MythWeb site (home page), logged in, and got a popup, "Warning: The requested recording schedule has been deleted."

[21:44:04]

sphery:

wonder if it actually deleted something.

[21:44:25]

iamlindoro_:

Ah, you compiled with --eliminate-soap-operas option

[21:44:36]

iamlindoro_:

--suppress-reality-TV

[21:44:46]

sphery:

actually, if we had them, I'd use both. :)

[21:45:01]

iamlindoro_:

haha, me too, but then again, only I use my myth machine, mo wife to muck 'er up

[21:45:03]

iamlindoro_:

er no

[21:45:14]

sphery:

was the first time I logged in on this profile. Wonder if that's relevant.

[21:45:20]

sphery:

(firefox profile)

[21:45:42]

sphery:

don't think I'll be able to repro this for kormoc, though

[21:45:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro_: Here's what it looks like now – just took a live snapshot from the news: http://jartz.homeip.net:8008/files/fire1.png

[21:46:37]

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[21:47:34]

iamlindoro_:

Looks under control then

[21:47:36]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[21:48:13]

sphery:

I like how the news article has the "Live" graphic on its photo

[21:49:06]

sphery:

needs a disclaimer (* Image was live at the time of capture. Liveness of image not guaranteed.)

[21:49:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

Yeah, they obviously took it from the live broadcast like I did...

[21:49:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

But I agree that they should have had a timestamp on it or something....

[21:49:37]

sphery:

yeah, I don't blame you, but a "professional" news organization should really do better

[21:49:54]

sphery:

not hard to PhotoShop (or GIMP) it.

[21:50:25]

sphery:

Or, could even do it automatically with a nice imagemagick script

[21:50:42]

iamlindoro_:

Moreover, when it's a capture from your own news feed, you can get at it before the titles :)

[21:51:58]

sphery:

no joke

[21:52:17]

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[21:54:30]

iamlindoro_:

I love it when people talk about how they're "designing a home theatre solution for a client based on Mythtv" and then proceed to ask questions that prove they know diddly-dick about Myth

[21:55:11]

magnets^^:

i am trying to get mythweb working, but i can't see the .htaccess file (the only one is in mythweb/data, but it doesn't contain any instructions)

[21:55:34]

iamlindoro_:

magnets^^, mythweb in .21 doesn't need an htaccess file AFAIK

[21:55:38]

kormoc:

sphery, if you delete a recording profile and exit the window/tab before it reloads back to the list, you'll have an 'extra' 'error/warning/info' popup waiting for the next load

[21:55:41]

iamlindoro_:

mythweb.conf is all you should need

[21:55:44]

magnets^^:

ah ok

[21:55:46]

|Torg|:

magnets^^: its in the apache conf files, per the readme

[21:56:18]

magnets^^:

when i go to my mythweb directory, it just shows a list of files, have i done something wrong?

[21:56:31]

kormoc:

you need mod_php

[21:56:41]

iamlindoro_:

"not reading the INSTALL or README files" would be the first mistake :)

[21:57:02]

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[21:57:02]

iamlindoro_:

since they cover what kormoc just told you (damn him for being so kind) ;)

[21:58:04]

sphery:

kormoc: that may be it. I did delete some recently

[21:58:28]

magnets^^:

i have mod_php

[21:58:45]

|Torg|:

and mod_rewrite

[21:58:45]

iamlindoro_:

now enable it. And read the INSTALL file.

[21:58:48]

iamlindoro_:

Strike that, reverse it.

[21:58:50]

sphery:

kormoc: how hard would it be to put the title into the deleted warning message? (I.e. is it something a hack like me might be able to figure out?)

[21:58:59]

magnets^^:

mod_env, mod_rewrite, both in my modules dir

[21:59:00]

|Torg|:

and mod_defalte

[21:59:06]

|Torg|:

and a perl handler

[21:59:15]

|Torg|:

you DID read the readme, right? its all in there

[21:59:20]

magnets^^:

yes

[21:59:25]

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[21:59:44]

kormoc:

sphery, if the title is handy, piece of cake, else might be a tad more complicated

[21:59:46]

magnets^^:

if i run mythweb.php, i get a database error, yet the DB details are correct, and i can connect to the db using phpmyadmin, and mythbackend can connect

[22:00:30]

sphery:

kormoc: cool. Might look at it sometime. If it is a piece of cake, you'll likely see a ticket/patch.

[22:00:37]

kormoc:

Sounds good :)

[22:00:42]

|Torg|:

did you put the mythweb.conf.apache file in the arache conf dir? Did you edit it with the proper settings? did you add mod_rewrite and mod_php to mods-enabled?

[22:01:33]

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[22:01:53]

gbee:

can't wait until mythweb is built into the backend

[22:02:08]

magnets^^:

edited the .conf, placed in conf.d/, but what is mods-enabled? a file?

[22:02:30]

|Torg|:

no a directory, its how you load modules into apache, irellivant of myth or mythweb

[22:02:56]

kormoc:

it's distro dependent

[22:02:57]

|Torg|:

again, everything I have said is directly in the INSTALL file in the mythweb directory, even has step by step instructions

[22:03:05]

directhex:

gbee, is that on the to-do list?

[22:03:15]

directhex:

i suppose it already serves http, for the "backend status" page

[22:03:27]

gbee:

of course when that happens half will cheer and the other half will criticise the decision because they want to use obscurehttpd v1.60 on a machine 1000 miles from the backend ...

[22:03:29]

J-e-f-f-A:

iamlindoro: I just put more pics up there... http://jartz.homeip.net:8008/files/fire8.png is from 4:15pm – http://jartz.homeip.net:8008/files/fire9.png is from now...

[22:03:35]

magnets^^:

well, the required modules are in httpd/modules dir

[22:04:00]

gbee:

directhex: it's been frequently considered, but I guess it really depends on whether xris and kormoc want to learn c++ ;)

[22:04:08]

|Torg|:

if you directly cal the php page, does it render or simly give you the source?

[22:04:22]

magnets^^:

it renders, and produces db error

[22:04:37]

magnets^^:

"database setup error"

[22:04:44]

|Torg|:

then the enviromnet, somethjing that is in the conf file, is not loading

[22:04:51]

directhex:

gbee, c++ is stinky, like poop

[22:05:15]

kormoc:

gbee, Hrm, that'd be an interesting project...

[22:05:19]

** gbee pats directhex on the head **

[22:06:05]

kormoc:

gbee, once the plugins get some backend-ification, I could see it working out decently well

[22:06:12]

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[22:06:20]

gbee:

J-e-f-f-A|work: hmm, not a real big fire department? Seems a pretty small response for such a large fire

[22:07:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: It happened very quickly... at 4:15pm it was a 2-alarm fire- and within 1/2 an hour had gone to 4 and then 6 alarms...

[22:07:10]

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[22:07:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: All they can do now is keep it from spreading to surrounding buildings, which is what they're doing... there's no chance of saving the building at all.

[22:07:38]

gbee:

kormoc: I like the idea, not least because it simplifys things both for users and devs – mythweb could become even better integrated and offer more features

[22:08:08]

gbee:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, nothing to save

[22:08:34]

kormoc:

J-e-f-f-A, my lawrdy

[22:08:51]

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[22:10:00]

J-e-f-f-A:

Thankfully there aren't any deaths, or even any injuries reported at this time...

[22:10:30]

kormoc:

gbee, even just a way for the backend to get at standard data objects for the plugins, it'd be a lot easier to re-write mythweb

[22:10:41]

gbee:

spreading so fast you have to wonder whether the building materials and design were adequate for fire safety – a building of that size and nature shouldn't burn that quick, I imagine sprinklers, fire doors and walls etc would be mandatory in some places

[22:10:49]

Andreaz:

hm, funny. first encoder is recording, try to watch livetv on another encoder (physically another card) but only can choice from the stations of the transponder from first encoder...

[22:11:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

gbee: They are here, and supposedly this building has sprinklers...

[22:11:26]

kormoc:

gbee, sadly, a lot of places seem only to have sprinkler systems in the hallways, makes it much harder to put out a fire when it has a full apartment to burn before water gets on it

[22:12:06]

gbee:

:(

[22:13:45]

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[22:14:02]

Dagmar:

They're not looking to protect the building.

[22:14:10]

Dagmar:

They're looking to preserve an exit for the people living in it

[22:14:37]

Dagmar:

If your apartment is on fire, the next place it's going go to are the apartments above, and around yours. Meaning the hallway.

[22:14:50]

Dagmar:

Lose the hallway and people may become trapped and have to jump out windows and stuff.

[22:15:56]

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[22:16:27]

neztiti:

hi guys – 100% cpu here with mythtv 21 ubuntu fixed any idea????

[22:16:56]

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[22:16:59]

bsdfox_:

neztiti: what's using hte cpu?

[22:16:59]

kormoc:

neztiti, if it's fixed, why ask?

[22:17:44]

directhex:

neztiti, change theme away from GANT

[22:18:06]

neztiti:

bsdfox: i dont know man – me asking :-D why?

[22:18:32]

directhex:

alphapulse strikes again

[22:18:36]

bsdfox_:

because obviously that'd be helpful in diagnosing the problem

[22:23:55]

neztiti:

directhex: its the same after changed the theme

[22:24:16]

directhex:

neztiti, okay, it's the illuminati's fault

[22:24:26]

directhex:

you've given enough detail for me to blame alphapulse or the illuminati

[22:24:39]

directhex:

or about a thousand other things in between

[22:24:49]

directhex:

like using the gl painter but not having a valid gl config

[22:25:01]

directhex:

or having some completely unrelated process like beagle using your cpu

[22:25:16]

directhex:

or whatever. suffice it to say, you're currently impossible to help. add detail, remove confusion, get help.

[22:26:00]

neztiti:

ok i will try to fix it

[22:26:02]

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[22:26:02]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[22:26:08]

neztiti:

thank you man

[22:26:30]

directhex:

evening xris

[22:27:23]

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[22:29:42]

xris:

still afternoon here. ;)

[22:29:56]

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[22:29:58]

directhex:

well, your inferior timekeeping is not my concern!

[22:30:05]

directhex:

AHA!

[22:30:22]

directhex:

i've just realised following on from yesterday's discussion, why so much american porn is 4:3

[22:30:30]

directhex:

it's that damn "no widescreen SD" thing

[22:32:58]

xris:

directhex: sure there is. 480p anamorphic can be widescreen.

[22:33:04]

xris:

most DVD releases are 480p widescreen

[22:33:17]

directhex:

fucking interlaced though

[22:33:42]

directhex:

even big movies like sin city have sodding interlacing artefacts all over. i gotta stop buying r1 dvds

[22:34:10]

Lynet:

Who wants HD pron anyway? Up close view of zits and the like is kinda counter-productive.

[22:34:26]

kormoc:

Lynet, just consider them extra nipples

[22:34:35]

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[22:34:47]

directhex:

Lynet, widescreen at the very least

[22:34:54]

xris:

directhex: not my fault you buy cheap interlaced DVDs.. the *p* stands for "progressive".. meaning "not interlaced"

[22:35:18]

directhex:

xris, a warning "this disc is shit" might be nice

[22:35:31]

directhex:

y'know, on major releases like sin city

[22:35:33]

kormoc:

directhex, if you get them from the guy on the corner for half a quid, you're getting a "this disc is shit" disc

[22:36:00]

xris:

directhex: if you want HD, you should be buying blu, anyway

[22:36:53]

directhex:

xris, i just want widescreen!

[22:37:06]

directhex:

widescreen and progressive!

[22:37:12]

xris:

then get the widescreen version of whatever it is. most movies are released in 2 versions..

[22:37:20]

directhex:

i mean, these aren't the dark ages. we don't all have 4" tubes in enormous boxes anymore

[22:37:53]

directhex:

kormoc, amazon.com?

[22:38:10]

xris:

directhex: some of us like bigger pictures vs "full frames" on our 4:3 TVs

[22:38:20]

xris:

(ok, so I don't really care one way or the other)

[22:38:24]

xris:

but I still have a 4:3 tv

[22:38:26]

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[22:38:40]

directhex:

xris, and shitty interlacing, even from progressive sources?

[22:38:56]

xris:

the tv is interlaced.. I can't tell i vs p signals apart

[22:39:41]

kormoc:

directhex, I honestly don't notice much of a problem

[22:39:55]

directhex:

drives me up the bloody wall

[22:40:12]

kormoc:

directhex, of course, the only HD thing I have is serenity, purely for HD Kaylee...

[22:40:28]

directhex:

what's that stupid thing you only get on yank discs where it's progressive about 90% of the time, but randomly interlaced for the rest?

[22:40:39]

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[22:40:50]

kormoc:

huh?

[22:40:51]

xris:

you lost me with that one

[22:41:47]

directhex:

let me get my sin city dvd

[22:42:01]

** hatchmt is away: headed home... **

[22:43:38]

kormoc:

xris, thoughts on porting mythweb to the backend/c++? :P

[22:44:30]

xris:

kormoc: I've pondered it...

[22:44:42]

xand:

what's the point of the second audio "commentary" track on some freeview programs?

[22:45:48]

kormoc:

xand, what's the point of the second audio "commentary" track on some dvds/insert everything else that has a second track?

[22:46:08]

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[22:46:13]

iamlindoro:

I think it's so you can hear people commenting on things

[22:46:16]

iamlindoro:

;)

[22:46:53]

xand:

kormoc: I don't care about them as mplayer doesn't play them instead of the normal audio x.x

[22:47:40]

iamlindoro:

So if you don't care, who cares?

[22:47:56]

kormoc:

yeah, why ask about the 'point' if you don't care

[22:48:31]

xand:

I don't suppose I can get mythtv to not record them

[22:48:50]

xand:

the DVD ones aren't related to mythtv anyway

[22:49:18]

iamlindoro:

You can remux later if you want, but that's a bad idea-- you're barely using any space at all on them I wouldn't risk losing sync

[22:51:28]

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[23:13:00]

dustybin:

there is a zoneminder script available what will let one control the PTZ functions on this webcam!!!!!

[23:13:03]

dustybin:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=AV-002-LG

[23:13:23]

dustybin:

now thats what i call, cool!

[23:14:05]

dustybin:

and here is the script to control it: http://www.zoneminder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9788

[23:18:18]

** iamlindoro_ grumbles at the guy who says he wasn't able to find any information about blu-ray discs on the wiki and how he searched and searched **

[23:18:44]

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[23:21:14]

iamlindoro_:

I also have some doubts about someone who says "I am asking these questions because I am designing and installing a large home theater project for a client" but doesn't know that blu-ray doesn't have an "e" in it.

[23:21:21]

iamlindoro_:

God help his "client."

[23:22:47]

xris:

iamlindoro_: makes you want to go into business to get a piece of that "large home theatre installer" money pot, doesn't it? amid all of the unknowing/untrained people out there.

[23:23:03]

directhex:

sounds like web design

[23:23:13]

iamlindoro_:

xris: Sounds like the "90s 'web designer'" market... doomed to collapse.

[23:23:16]

iamlindoro_:

HA

[23:24:23]

xris:

iamlindoro_: I still hear of incompetent people making big bucks doing that.

[23:24:37]

iamlindoro_:

The other bit in the same post I like is how he talks about SD sources won't be clear enough for the large projection size and he intends to put a medium sized LCD on the wall behind the projection screen for SD material

[23:24:50]

iamlindoro_:

xris: I guess that creates the "cleanup" aftermarket :)

[23:24:55]

xris:

friend of mine just started working at a big pro html design shop, and says the code quality and knowledge is utter crap

[23:25:52]

iamlindoro_:

Meh, better just to link to the disaster: http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7816

[23:26:15]

dustybin:

did you know that some webcams can run using the linux UVC driver, that means your webcam can turn into a ip camera, and you can view the image on the network like: http://localhost:8080 now thats what i call, cool!

[23:26:25]

dustybin:

http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/

[23:26:45]

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[23:26:52]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: In practice it works "ok"

[23:27:00]

dustybin:

have you tried it

[23:27:03]

iamlindoro_:

I have one and use that package to watch my dog during the day

[23:27:04]

iamlindoro_:

yeah

[23:27:12]

dustybin:

hahaha ace

[23:27:13]

iamlindoro_:

Tends to crash firefox

[23:27:19]

directhex:

yay for mjpeg

[23:27:19]

dustybin:

oh, not so ace :-(

[23:27:25]

iamlindoro_:

so I usually just use the static mode and refresh from time to time

[23:29:18]

iamlindoro_:

To be clearer, it's the localhost:8080/?stream that crashes firefox, the ?snapshot works great

[23:29:35]

dustybin:

what model webcam are you using?

[23:29:47]

dustybin:

there are lots of issues with the logitech range according to that website

[23:33:49]

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[23:34:04]

F0ghornLeghorn:

ah say git me some info on that there blue-ray thingy son

[23:34:43]

F0ghornLeghorn:

ma customer is wantin a whole theeeee-ater playin out aitch-dee & such like

[23:34:57]

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[23:50:18]

wagner:

you know, thats almost as hard to understand as l33t

[23:51:03]

dustybin:

where is clever when you need him

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[23:58:18]

justinh:

he's needed?

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