Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, March 6th, 2008, 00:01 UTC

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justdave:

been googling around for a while, and lots of people post lots of stuff, but I don't really see it in clear black and white anywhere (perhaps because it's all a black art anyway :) trying to grok how to set up the transcoding stuff to save some disk space

[00:46:06]

justdave:

The MPEG2 that comes out of the encoder card takes up a lot of space

[00:46:43]

justdave:

most of the stuff I'm finding seems to be written against older versions of Myth and the menu options don't match up anymore

[00:48:14]

justdave:

watching how fast Myth has been evolving I'm sure there's something clear out there these days that just hasn't caught up in pagerank yet. :) Anyone have an idea where to point me?

[00:49:54]

clever[rev]:

in the recording rule under post processing

[00:49:57]

justdave:

most of the docs I'm finding that are actually clear and easy to understand are talking about converting stuff to formats that can be used elsewhere

[00:50:01]

clever[rev]:

you can enable auto transcode and set the profile

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justdave:

but don't talk about keeping it in Myth and just making the files smaller. :)

[00:50:16]

clever[rev]:

and under setup you have to allow auto transcoding and you can edit the profiles

[00:50:31]

clever[rev]:

and when you edit the profile you can pick a lower bitrate/better codec

[00:50:45]

clever[rev]:

ive got mine setup to half my bitrate after 3 days

[00:50:46]

MipsIrv:

has anyone had any luck streaming native nuv files via the uPnP interface?

[00:51:05]

MipsIrv:

i have several UPnP clients.. some can see the actual episodes.. some not.. none of them have any luck actually playing them

[00:51:24]

MipsIrv:

and.. unfortunately.. there is little documentation to investigate

[00:51:46]

iamlindoro:

nuv is probably never going to work on anything via upnp

[00:51:47]

eiersalat:

how can avoid that the frontend osd in livetv is having the same quality as the dvb channel tuned

[00:51:56]

iamlindoro:

the device still has to have support for the format/container

[00:52:03]

eiersalat:

on low bitrate channels its really ugly :(

[00:52:51]

iamlindoro:

eiersalat: But running SVN or the forthcoming .21 and using the opengl OSD

[00:52:57]

iamlindoro:

erm by

[00:53:02]

clever[rev]:

iamlindoro: and mythtranscode outputs nuv so any transcoding to save space would break the upnp players

[00:53:22]

MipsIrv:

so.. i'm stuck transcoding everything (btw.. i've never transcoded so I don't know if that would even be successful)

[00:53:26]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: unless you just use lossless

[00:53:34]

clever[rev]:

then i wouldnt be saving space

[00:53:34]

eiersalat:

ahhh thanks imalindoro , as alwasy :)

[00:53:47]

clever[rev]:

the cutlist cant take 50% off the file

[00:53:56]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: That's why god made userjobs

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clever[rev]:

lol

[00:54:18]

clever[rev]:

userjobs cant be scheduled to run 3 days after the recording

[00:54:24]

iamlindoro:

anyone who is counting on myth's onboard transcode to do their transcoding doesn't care about the resulting file much

[00:54:32]

eiersalat:

when .21 will come ? (i know.... just asking if its weeks or monts)

[00:54:35]

eiersalat:

months

[00:54:41]

iamlindoro:

eiersalat: closer to days, probably

[00:54:52]

eiersalat:

*g*

[00:55:02]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: what's stopping you from using a userjob 3 days after?

[00:55:10]

jblack:

Any recent fixes for "job already running" ?

[00:55:25]

clever[rev]:

id perfer to let it queue itself automaticaly like the delayed transcode

[00:55:41]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: So write it into the script, that's not hard

[00:55:52]

iamlindoro:

and have it insert itself into cron

[00:56:04]

directhex:

iamlindoro, looks like texas didn't balls up utterly after all. hillary barely won the primary, and obama's well in the lead on the caucasus

[00:56:09]

clever[rev]:

then it wont be tied into the job queue in myth and 50 jobs may run at once

[00:56:16]

clever[rev]:

causing them to take days to finish

[00:56:21]

clever[rev]:

causing more to start

[00:56:25]

iamlindoro:

directhex: Yes, but annoying not to have things settled... ah well, soon I hope

[00:56:25]

clever[rev]:

causing it to take weeks

[00:57:04]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: cron is far more intelligent and granular that Myth's job queue

[00:57:18]

clever[rev]:

but cron will hapily run 20 jobs at once

[00:57:27]

clever[rev]:

and doesnt care if one is allready going

[00:57:31]

iamlindoro:

anyway, you're arguing just for the sake of arguing, I'm not going to waste any more time

[00:57:54]

directhex:

http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-s . . . ?newsid=7238 – the beeb uses ffmpeg?

[00:58:07]

MipsIrv:

so what.. i want mythtv to serve mpeg4 files via UPnP.. did i miss a doc somewhere on doing this?

[00:58:15]

MipsIrv:

havent found much on mythtv and upnp at all to be honest..

[00:58:30]

clever[rev]:

that too:P

[00:58:46]

iamlindoro:

MipsIrv: Myth will server the files as whattever they are

[00:59:01]

iamlindoro:

MipsIrv: no stream-time encoding happens

[00:59:37]

MipsIrv:

but mythtranscode will not output a file that most clients can read via upnp?

[00:59:56]

iamlindoro:

MipsIrv: look up nuvexport and use that instead

[01:00:06]

MipsIrv:

cool thanks

[01:00:12]

iamlindoro:

or, as previously mentioned, write your own userjob for ffmpeg

[01:00:50]

iamlindoro:

clever[rev]: /etc/cron.d/queuedefs

[01:00:53]

iamlindoro:

use it, love it

[01:01:08]

iamlindoro:

like I said, far more granular than Myth's job manager

[01:01:13]

clever[rev]:

never heard of those

[01:01:23]

iamlindoro:

sorry about that, guess they must not exist then

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eiersalat:

iamlindoro: i ve just read the 0.21 release notes, there are many features important for me, how can i use .21 already ? just svn ? or is there a .21 branch ? sry for my stupid questions

[01:03:44]

directhex:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/fcc_oka . . . bedded_video

[01:04:27]

iamlindoro:

eiersalat: There is a .21 branch but it is not complete yet, and exists only in the SVN repository

[01:04:43]

iamlindoro:

you can check it out an compile it if you wish, but it won't be the same as waiting for the release

[01:04:58]

iamlindoro:

as there are still bugfixes, etc. to come

[01:05:00]

eiersalat:

ah so there is a .21 branch in svn which is at least usable ?

[01:05:06]

eiersalat:

*useable

[01:05:11]

iamlindoro:

more than usable

[01:05:27]

eiersalat:

ah thanks, that i wanted to hear :D

[01:05:32]

iamlindoro:

many of us have been using .21/SVN trunk for many months

[01:05:50]

iamlindoro:

directhex: hehe

[01:06:02]

directhex:

iamlindoro, i agree entirely with the fcc in this instance

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eiersalat:

*going to compile now* :)

[01:06:48]

iamlindoro:

I think alyson hannigan is weird lookin

[01:06:55]

iamlindoro:

But I still like redheads

[01:16:53]

justdave:

ok, successfully tested a transcode, got it to half the file size without noticeably degrading the quality any. :)

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justdave:

(just converting from MPEG2 to MPEG4)

[01:17:16]

justdave:

set up my defaults so all new future recordings get transcoded

[01:17:27]

justdave:

now how to I fix all the existing stuff? :)

[01:18:22]

justdave:

got a 500GB drive that's almost full, and the kids are complaining that the autoexpire is killing stuff they recorded two days ago :)

[01:19:04]

justdave:

I switched it to kill oldest first, it was set for weighted time/priority combo

[01:19:12]

justdave:

which apparently isn't quite weighted the way I thought :)

[01:19:24]

justdave:

there was 4 month old stuff with the autoexpire flag set that wasn't expired yet

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eiersalat:

just buy more hdds :P

[01:22:36]

eiersalat:

dont cost nerves just money haha :)

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J-e-f-f-A-2:

justdave: I've got 3 500GB drives yet to install... ;-) (Running 4 now, plus a 320GB just for videos, a 200GB just for Music/Pics and a 320 for the OS/swap... ;-)

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justdave:

if I run mythtranscode on it, does that update the database for the new file, too?

[01:29:27]

justdave:

(if I run that from the shell)

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[01:30:28]

justdave:

looks like the stuff that came in raw off the encoder card is all .mpg, the transcoded stuff appears to be .nuv

[01:31:05]

justdave:

but I noticed when the autotranscode runs, it outputs to .tmp and then renames to .nuv afterwards

[01:31:20]

justdave:

when I run it from the command line it seems to output directly to the .nuv

[01:31:36]

directhex:

file extensions are a windowsism. what matters is the content

[01:31:44]

justdave:

which makes me wonder if the autotranscode is doing cleanup afterwards (like the rename and fixing the db and so forth)

[01:32:18]

justdave:

and that cleanup wouldn't be done when I run it manually

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iamlindoro_:

justdave: I just creates the .tmp file because it sometimes deals with files of identical extension/naming (example: losless mpeg-2 cutting) and it assures the output file exists and is complete before replacing the original with it

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[01:39:54]

fuxxy_:

When I view Live TV, videos, or anything else with mplayer, I get a small blue line running at the top edge of my screen.. It appeared after switching video cards (both still supported by Nvidia's binary). How do I get rid of this line

[01:40:09]

fuxxy_:

?

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directhex:

overscan

[01:41:05]

fuxxy_:

directhex okay. That sounds logical. Doesn't overscan apply to the UI as well?

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GreyFoxx:

use overscan to hide it, or install xvattr to change its colour to black

[01:42:22]

directhex:

yeah, but we're only talking a few pixels, and theme design rules say there should be a certain amount of "safe" area anyway for precisely this reason

[01:42:41]

directhex:

editing the colorkey? how deliciously filthy!

[01:42:47]

GreyFoxx:

yeah :)

[01:43:08]

GreyFoxx:

/usr/local/bin/xvattr -a XV_COLORKEY -v 66048

[01:43:13]

GreyFoxx:

I have that in my .xinitrc :)

[01:43:26]

directhex:

what's the kind of obscene muck i like! :)

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fuxxy_:

well, the GUI is actually too wide/tall to fit my 4:3 TV

[01:48:39]

fuxxy_:

but when the movie plays, there's a few pixels of blue at the top

[01:48:44]

cafuego:

.xinitrc? That still works?

[01:49:01]

cafuego:

I thought everything used .xsession these days

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GreyFoxx:

Caliban_: It depends on how you start x

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fuxxy_:

Could mplayer use a different overscan setting than the MythTV GUI?

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Tanthrix:

fuxxy_: Aye. Just pass a zoom parameter in the mythvideo mplayer command

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[02:03:11]

fuxxy_:

and it seems the wiki suggests that when you adjust within the 'Screen Settings' section of the Appearance menu, that it will change on the fly

[02:03:12]

Tanthrix:

fuxxy_: You really should just set your overscan properly in nvidia-settings though. Best way to deal with the issue.

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fuxxy_:

can nvidia-settings be done on the fly?

[02:04:50]

fuxxy_:

grr, I can't seem to connect to the display :0.0 Is there a way to find out what the name of my screen is?

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cafuego:

fuxxy_: I'm pretty sure you'd ned to restart X after editing the cfg file.

[02:09:06]

Inssomniak:

I upgraded svn a few weeks ago now at least once a night it changes to a screen that is green garbage, sound is OK, menus OK

[02:09:14]

cafuego:

fuxxy_: echo $DISPLAY

[02:09:19]

eiersalat:

insane XD: http://ultimatemythtv.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/network_1.gif

[02:10:29]

iamlindoro_:

eiersalat: equals power bill FAIL

[02:10:59]

eiersalat:

looool

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justdave:

ok, so running mythtranscode manually indeed does not remove the old file, generate a new thumbnail, or update the database

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fuxxy_:

alright

[02:34:54]

fuxxy_:

fixed overscan on the GUI with nvidia-settings

[02:35:17]

fuxxy_:

Now the blue bar is more prominent, and another showed up on the left side also

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iamlindoro_:

You sure have a funny definition of fixed ;)

[02:38:16]

fuxxy_:

:)

[02:38:35]

fuxxy_:

the blue only showes up when playing a video

[02:38:46]

fuxxy_:

mythfrontend GUI is perfect

[02:39:13]

iamlindoro_:

In that case I'd fix it via GreyFoxx's method

[02:39:40]

fuxxy_:

xvattr to change backgrond color?

[02:39:48]

iamlindoro_:

yup

[02:40:06]

fuxxy_:

I threw that line in there, and nothing happened.. let me see why

[02:40:25]

fuxxy_:

hah

[02:40:27]

fuxxy_:

-bash: xvattr: command not found

[02:40:46]

iamlindoro_:

Yup, that would prevent it from working

[02:42:26]

fuxxy_:

I think I'm gonna submit to gentoo wiki a single command to install gentoo including configurations and emerge common packages

[02:43:15]

fuxxy_:

holy

[02:43:34]

fuxxy_:

xvattr -a XV_COLORKEY -v 66048

[02:43:44]

fuxxy_:

during mplayer running is BAD

[02:44:17]

fuxxy_:

hmm.

[02:44:30]

fuxxy_:

Now I've got black bars above and below like it's in 16:9

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_DustyBin:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/milestone/0.21

[02:53:33]

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[02:53:38]

_DustyBin:

.21 is 97% complete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[02:54:20]

** _DustyBin wets himself **

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GreyFoxx:

yeah, baring glaring bugs it;s just days away

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tehpunkprodigy:

does anyone know how to completely purge the tv programmin database and refill it?

[03:07:18]

tehpunkprodigy:

its filled with info for the wrong channels

[03:09:15]

iamlindoro_:

I would think truncating the program table and rerunning mythfilldatabase --refresh-all ought to do it

[03:10:08]

tehpunkprodigy:

I'll try, thanks for the tip

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iamlindoro_:

then again, if all you need to do is replace the program info, just mythfilldatabase --refresh-all is probably enough

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[03:16:04]

mishehu:

looking for opinions – anybody ever run mythtv as a frontend only on an amd geode?

[03:16:33]

mishehu:

some claim they are better procs than the via epias, but I've not known anybody who owns one.

[03:16:37]

iamlindoro_:

Is "ow, ow it burns" an opinion?

[03:17:54]

iamlindoro_:

Top clock speed is 600 Mhzish I think, I wouldn't want to run anything besides a backend on it, and even then only if I had to

[03:18:39]

iamlindoro_:

Ah, looks like there is a product line of them that's newer that clocks a bit higher-- still wouldn't want to run anything but a backend and maybe SD on them

[03:18:43]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: hahaha.

[03:18:56]

mishehu:

ok, I'm not surprised.

[03:19:07]

mishehu:

I'll look at micro atx boards that support athlon64's

[03:19:15]

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[03:19:16]

iamlindoro_:

Probably a safer bet

[03:20:11]

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[03:21:20]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: I'm looking here at an asus m2a-vm (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174) and it has hdmi on it. I was recently reading something about there being multiple versions of hdmi. are you at all knowledgeable on the subject of hdmi and what I should look for in a micro-atx?

[03:21:55]

iamlindoro:

Well there's HDMI 1.3 that supports "Backer than black" and "Whiter than white" and probably some other stuff that I've never bothered with

[03:22:24]

iamlindoro:

The video on that is ATI, though, which is bad news

[03:22:45]

iamlindoro:

Because ATI + Myth is already bad enough without adding HDMI to the mix

[03:23:24]

jamesd:

mishehu, nice motherboard, but i use it for solaris, haven't tried myth on it.. but its a nice system

[03:23:46]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: I don't have much options do I? it's that or nvidia for hdmi no?

[03:24:10]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: or Intel-- but Intel and nVidia are far better for linux/myth use

[03:24:11]

mishehu:

jamesd: I was thinking of pairing it up with this cpu: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103204

[03:24:28]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: not very optimistic about the radeonhd project?

[03:24:44]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: I know I wouldn't base any current hardwre purchase on future software promises

[03:24:47]

mishehu:

I've not tried radeonhd yet, not functional enough to replace the crappy fglrx.

[03:25:09]

jamesd:

mishehu, splurge and get a 2.4ghz or better with 1MB l2 cache per core... its only 20–30 more, and it will give you a longer life...

[03:25:14]

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[03:27:18]

mishehu:

hmm all the micro-atx athlon64 am2's on newegg come only with integrated radeon x12xx's

[03:28:09]

mishehu:

jamesd: how many watts is that? I was looking at this because it's low wattage and probably a lot easier to dump into furniture and not worry about overheating so much.

[03:28:11]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.as . . . tionID=26907 ATI Specifically states Mythtv as not supported on their hardware

[03:28:48]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: yeah, I'll ignore what ati says because I've gone through the pains, and it does work, it just requires a lot of masochism.

[03:28:55]

iamlindoro:

And from lots of experience in here, I can tell you that we feel the same :)

[03:29:14]

mishehu:

I have a functional mythtv frontend+backend running with a radeon x1300

[03:29:29]

mishehu:

oh just ask Beirdo about me and pain.

[03:29:37]

jamesd:

mishehu, i got the 2.6ghz at 95watts, its more watts, but it can also sit at 1000mhz more often because of the larger l2 cache, and it sucks to decide you need a bit more cpu power 6 months later and have to pull the cpu and have it sit in a shelf because its not quite enough

[03:29:42]

mishehu:

I run slamd64 (unofficial slackware). I compile mythtv.

[03:30:07]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: Oh well, buy what you want, but you're unlikely to get much but derision in here if you have issues with myth on an ATI chipset

[03:30:52]

mishehu:

jamesd: I'll think about that, you do have a point about the cache.

[03:30:52]

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[03:31:35]

mishehu:

iamlindoro_: seems that I often times get derision or ignored when I encounter problems (very often times not specific to ati and the crap-ass fglrx)

[03:31:37]

jamesd:

mishehu, and myth is the only home related task that i have seen push a dual core 2.x ghz cpu... especially if you are doing hdtv.

[03:31:45]

mishehu:

I figured people just don't like me. ;-)

[03:31:54]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: It's possible... are you an asshole?

[03:32:08]

mishehu:

iamlindoro: I *have* an asshole, but I don't believe that I am one.

[03:32:32]

iamlindoro:

Meh. Well I'll just have to observe and see. If you're an asshole I'll let you know. ;)

[03:32:41]

mishehu:

though I suspect if I was an asshole we'd not be having civil discourse right now.

[03:32:56]

mishehu:

iamlindoro: glad to know you're honest. ;-)

[03:33:03]

iamlindoro:

painfully so

[03:33:09]

mishehu:

my kind of person.

[03:33:45]

** iamlindoro looks at the ATI Myth howto and caresses "apt-get install nvidia-glx-new" ever so softly... Sssssssh, baby, it's you and me forever... **

[03:34:23]

mishehu:

brb, got to go deal with another piece of pain and masochism.... I spent 2 days straight trying to shrink the *ugh* vista that came preloaded to 70GB so that I could free up the other 2/3 of the HD for linux.

[03:35:06]

mishehu:

iamlindoro: ah yes, but you don't get the satisfaction of having spent hours making it EXACTLY how you want it, so then you can tell your grandkids one day about how rough the old days of computing were. ;-)

[03:35:08]

** mishehu chuckles **

[03:35:15]

mishehu:

brb, gotta start this slamd install.

[03:35:33]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: My grandkids will appreciate that I had the time to go out and actually find their grandmother instead of editing .conf files

[03:36:10]

justdave:

so Google's not helping me much (there's just too much crap out there about mythtv ;) Are there scripts anywhere to search out and queue for transcoding any existing recordings that didn't initially get transcoded?

[03:36:16]

iamlindoro:

And I have a strict policy of never using the word linux where any woman can hear me

[03:36:50]

mishehu:

iamlindoro: not even around linuxchicks?

[03:36:51]

iamlindoro:

justdave: Am I right to say that your untranscoded files are all .mpgs and your transcoded ones are all nuvs?

[03:37:01]

justdave:

iamlindoro: yes

[03:37:03]

mishehu:

I have met 2 or 3 attractive girls running linux.

[03:37:08]

iamlindoro:

mishehu: I shudder at the very thought

[03:37:29]

mishehu:

heh

[03:37:30]

iamlindoro:

justdave: You could write a little MySQL query to only return the recordedfile where filename is like mpg

[03:37:32]

justdave:

that's what I was thinking is it wouldn't be too hard to just grab the list out of the recordings table and any with a .mpg filename throw into the queue

[03:37:52]

justdave:

just figured I'd find out if there was already something out there to save me the trouble :)

[03:38:21]

justdave:

especially since I don't really know the DB structure in myth and it'd be a wild guess what to put in there :)

[03:42:09]

iamlindoro:

SELECT * from recorded where basename regexp "mpg";

[03:42:12]

iamlindoro:

something like that

[03:45:29]

iamlindoro:

mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg -e "SELECT basename from recorded where basename REGEXP 'mpg';" | grep -v ^basename$ >&2

[03:45:35]

iamlindoro:

would be even better :)

[03:48:57]

justdave:

for the record, this does the job nicely:

[03:49:02]

justdave:

INSERT INTO jobqueue (chanid, starttime, inserttime, type, cmds, flags, status, statustime) SELECT chanid, starttime, now(), 1, 0, 1, 1, NOW() FROM recorded WHERE basename LIKE '%.mpg';

[03:52:34]

justdave:

I did it with a LIMIT 1 tacked on the end to test it though. :)

[03:52:57]

justdave:

I probably save the query and do it with LIMIT 5 or something periodically until I get them all

[03:53:09]

justdave:

it'll take days and use the CPU the whole time :)

[03:53:36]

** iamlindoro notes that, in spite of his name coming up a dozen odd times today, that justdave has said more today than in the past year **

[03:53:44]

iamlindoro:

er a dozen odd times every day

[03:53:53]

justdave:

hah. :)

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justdave:

I've probably been this wordy in here before, but not that often

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Mode for #mythtv-users by irc.freenode.net : +v Beirdo

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justdave:

poor hnitsuj :)

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iamlindoro:

justdave: Shhhhh, don't give away the ecret-say!

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justdave:

all because people have buggy irc clients.

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[03:55:59]

iamlindoro:

Mostly because they're not paying attention to tab autocomplete

[03:56:03]

justdave:

a smart irc client tab-completes the matching user who most-recently spoke first rather than alphabetical

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[04:02:11]

justdave:

hmm, it's smart and limits to one job at a time, either transcode or commflagging

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[04:02:24]

justdave:

and the commflagging runs *while* it's recording, typically

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[04:02:44]

justdave:

so queueing the whole darn batch of them probably wouldn't hurt anything, CPU-wise

[04:02:49]

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iamlindoro:

justdave: It's user-selectable (how many to run) in mythtv-setup

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[04:03:11]

justdave:

on the other hand, it means I'd have 4 or 5 days worth of transcoding in line in front of all the commflag jobs

[04:03:41]

justdave:

so anything that records in the next few days would probably be long-since watched before it gets commflagged

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[04:06:21]

justdave:

I should put a limit 1 on that query and have a cron job run it once an hour and only if the queue is empty at the time. (to avoid queuing something that's already in the queue)

[04:07:54]

justdave:

hmm, takes about 15 minutes to transcode a half hour show, so that's 4 an hour

[04:08:02]

justdave:

nothing scheduled to record until 6:30am tomorrow

[04:08:24]

justdave:

so I could queue 20 of them right now without interfering with anything

[04:13:19]

iamlindoro:

What the *hell* is this bullshit about them potentially not filming the second half of the last season of BSG ever???

[04:21:28]

jamesd:

bsg == Blue Screen by Gates?

[04:22:22]

iamlindoro:

Battlestar Galactica

[04:22:24]

tjcarter:

Battlestar Galactica

[04:22:35]

tjcarter:

iamlindoro: WHAT?!?!

[04:23:08]

iamlindoro:

tjcarter: Apparently thanks to the writers strike they may just have the midseason cliffhanger be the series finale

[04:23:20]

iamlindoro:

Which is some BULLSHIT

[04:23:36]

tjcarter:

That is just wrong

[04:24:00]

tjcarter:

R&D need to get off their asses and start filming

[04:24:43]

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[04:27:14]

iamlindoro:

I don't even mind the show ending, just give it a proper ending, nothing ever does that these days

[04:28:22]

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[04:28:39]

iamlindoro:

The only other show moving towards a tangible wrap-up is LOST

[04:34:48]

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[05:04:11]

a1fa_:

anybody want lost spoiler

[05:04:19]

a1fa_:

it actually fucking expkains whats going on

[05:04:22]

a1fa_:

if you havent figured it out

[05:04:23]

a1fa_:

http://timelooptheory.com/the_timeline.htm

[05:05:41]

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[05:07:38]

achew22:

I was looking at the trac server and I noticed there is a ticket on there (#12 http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/12) that seems to be REALLY old. Its labeled "Convert UI to use libmythui." I thought libmythui was done and that was what painted all the plugins and such. Am I confused?

[05:13:04]

iamlindoro:

achew22: Nope, things are slowly being converted to mythui... .22 is probably when it will hit from what I understand

[05:13:30]

achew22:

iamlindoro: and before it was supposed to be in .21 and before that .20 and before that .19 ;)

[05:13:50]

iamlindoro:

achew22: Yeah, but since things in trunk are currently actually CONVERTED to MythUI it's a fairer bet

[05:14:45]

iamlindoro:

some things, anyway... basically being done pugin by plugin

[05:18:47]

venkelos:

im about to give up on gentoo mythtv, is mythbuntu that much easier to work with? cuz im looking at a serious number of hours to reinstall the system

[05:19:00]

achew22:

venkelos: what isn't working for you?

[05:19:49]

venkelos:

im not sure how much is mythtvs fault and how much is gentoo not just being easily compatible with it, ive had so many different issues but at the moment connecting through firewire is timing out

[05:20:04]

venkelos:

im thinking maybe mythbuntu will automagically do everything for me

[05:20:23]

achew22:

I learned everything I know about myth from doing it in gentoo the first time

[05:20:33]

achew22:

and if your going to do it there are a lot of good tutorials online for Ubuntu

[05:20:39]

achew22:

Ubuntu supports very nicely

[05:20:40]

venkelos:

well the firewire seems unable to change the motorola 6200s channel

[05:20:58]

achew22:

I don't know bout firewire though, I don't use it

[05:20:59]

venkelos:

or connect since the cable box is on a different channel than it is defaulted to

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[05:46:11]

venkelos:

ok so i changed my firewire from (Port 1, Node 0) which worked last night to (Port 1, Node 1) which is working today

[05:46:55]

venkelos:

but im back to this problem i had before, if i change to channel 550 (hbo) the cable box changes, and the mythtv default channel gets set, but then i get kicked out to the main menu and have to go back into mythtv-setup and change the default channel to a safe one

[05:47:06]

venkelos:

the weird thing is i change to the high def channel 750 though

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[05:47:51]

venkelos:

mythbackend.log shows a bunch of errors 'FireRec, Error: TS packet out of sync.'

[05:48:48]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: That's exactly what happens when a channel or program is 5C'ex

[05:48:51]

iamlindoro:

er 5C'ed

[05:48:58]

venkelos:

oh, so comcast is just being a bunch of dicks

[05:49:01]

iamlindoro:

yup

[05:49:17]

venkelos:

is there any sort of safe recovery mode in mythtv?

[05:49:20]

iamlindoro:

And since we're in the same area I can tell you that I see the same behavior

[05:49:57]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: Go to mythweb, schedule a recording for the current time on firewire on a "safe" channel like Comedy Central.

[05:50:19]

venkelos:

hah, ok

[05:50:25]

iamlindoro:

in trunk, that fixes it as it never attempts to tune the failed channel before switching to the good one. Unknown if that would hold true for .20.2

[05:50:52]

iamlindoro:

if not, same procedure and restarting backend should work

[05:52:57]

venkelos:

ya that fixed it, is that firewire node thing something that changes frequently or was it just a fluke that node 0 worked for me earlier?

[05:53:57]

iamlindoro:

Couldn't tell you, my nodes remain consistent and I never have issues, but I use SVN trunk.

[05:54:11]

venkelos:

ya, im just holding out waiting for next stable release

[05:54:59]

iamlindoro:

shouldn't have long to wait

[05:57:32]

venkelos:

that is so dickish of comcast to encrypt those channels at the firewire port

[05:58:43]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: Interesting that you should find it that way, as they are only required to give us Local Network TV and we are lucky enough to have nearly everything in this area

[05:59:02]

iamlindoro:

we are profoundly lucky compared to what you'd get out of the firewire port almost anywhere else

[05:59:08]

venkelos:

im paying for the channels

[05:59:30]

iamlindoro:

That doesn't mean they're required to give you a perfect digital copy, just allow you to watch them.

[05:59:34]

venkelos:

we may be lucky in the sense that an abused stepchild is lucky when their dad forgets their belt one night

[06:00:36]

venkelos:

im happy i get any picture at all, just very upset that its not everything im paying for

[06:00:56]

venkelos:

i guess i can downgrade my plan, no point in paying for hbo

[06:01:21]

iamlindoro:

Comcast never offered you everything you pay for via firewire-- That port is *only* there because the FCC requires them to provide it, and to provide local channels in the clear via it.

[06:01:40]

venkelos:

ya i understand

[06:01:53]

venkelos:

if i were in any sort of decision making possition id be ashamed

[06:02:09]

iamlindoro:

Believe me, I'd love to have it all, but you need to have perspective-- compared to what most people get, and compared to what they are required to give us, we are in fantastic shape.

[06:02:40]

venkelos:

well they are gonna lose out on 20 bucks a month from me cuz im not paying for something i cannot watch via dvr

[06:02:57]

venkelos:

maybe they will rethink it soon

[06:03:00]

iamlindoro:

The fact that we get things like Comedy Central, Sci Fi, Discovery HD, etc. in the clear via firewire puts us head and shoulders above what 99% of the country can get via firewire

[06:03:14]

venkelos:

ya but i dont imagine tivo has to deal with this

[06:03:37]

iamlindoro:

They do if you buy a tivo in the store-- and if you get a CableCard Tivo, then you cannot get the shows off of it

[06:03:50]

Reiver:

yes you can

[06:03:53]

venkelos:

i wonder, do you think if i setup firewire just to change the channel and output to a tuner card set to channel 3?

[06:04:23]

venkelos:

can you link devices that way in mythtv?

[06:04:26]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: yes, that would work fine (SD only)

[06:04:42]

venkelos:

my tuner is a high def tuner

[06:04:45]

iamlindoro:

firewire for the channel change, analog video capture. It's what many people do

[06:04:52]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: Won't work

[06:05:08]

venkelos:

the cable out only outputs sd

[06:05:09]

venkelos:

?

[06:05:27]

iamlindoro:

The STB doesn't output a digital signal via coax

[06:05:45]

venkelos:

lol, ok so then need to find one that takes the component

[06:05:47]

iamlindoro:

you can capture analog via the coax out from your STB fine, but not digital

[06:06:02]

iamlindoro:

venkelos: There are currently none, the Hauppauge HD PVR is the first and is on the way sometime soon

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hnitsuj:

bit sick of this now. my vnc connection to home is crap & even nx isn't working. ssh is the only thing I can do. wonder if (sh)IT are traffic shaping

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bsdfox_:

nx just uses ssh afaik

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[09:12:30]

hnitsuj:

yeah I know. ssh is sluggish a bit too

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[13:49:37]

mzb_d800:

hnitsuj: try piping a dd over the ssh tunnel, perhaps?

[13:49:43]

hnitsuj:

I love it when it's like this. everybody's miffyteevee is worky :P

[13:50:11]

hnitsuj:

mzb_d800: nah – seems like only the 1st few bytes are getting through. I'm seriously considering buying a new router

[13:50:13]

mzb_d800:

$ dd if=/dev/zero | ssh user@mybox "dd of=/dev/null"

[13:50:45]

hnitsuj:

I doubt our (sh) IT dept are smart enough to do traffic shaping

[13:50:53]

mzb_d800:

:)

[13:51:24]

hnitsuj:

actually come to think about it, maybe it's all since I 'upgraded' the router firmware

[13:51:39]

mzb_d800:

what sort of router are you using? If you've got some sort of connection surely the rest is just ... err .. config related (except for various nastiness;)

[13:51:46]

mzb_d800:

ah

[13:51:57]

hnitsuj:

it's not letting my cctv dvr through on ports which work for other boxes, for one thing

[13:52:02]

hnitsuj:

not sure it ever did though

[13:52:20]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[13:52:38]

mzb_d800:

I keep getting ppl telling me I should upgrade mine

[13:52:41]

mzb_d800:

root@router:~# uptime

[13:52:42]

mzb_d800:

00:52:02 up 145 days, 33 min, load average: 0.06, 0.11, 0.08

[13:52:45]

hnitsuj:

might aswell splurge a little cash on a one I know works & get wireless into the bargain

[13:52:49]

mzb_d800:

I tell them to back off ;))

[13:53:02]

hnitsuj:

router's been a good 'un – over 7 years continuous service

[13:53:12]

mzb_d800:

not a bad lifetime

[13:53:26]

mzb_d800:

^^ Asus WL500GP

[13:53:34]

hnitsuj:

Linksys BEFSR41

[13:53:40]

mzb_d800:

nice

[13:53:52]

mzb_d800:

wifi enticing you?

[13:53:57]

hnitsuj:

not at all

[13:54:11]

mzb_d800:

not such a reason to change then

[13:54:24]

hnitsuj:

wouldn't mind SPI & other fun

[13:54:51]

mzb_d800:

major thing for me re 500gp was not just wifi, but the 2x USB2.0 portd

[13:54:59]

mzb_d800:

*s

[13:55:02]

hnitsuj:

could be a job for the old EPIA box but a new case for it'll cost what a new router would

[13:55:10]

mzb_d800:

heh

[13:55:40]

hnitsuj:

Â£30 or so for something I can prolly load up with openwrt

[13:55:49]

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[13:56:14]

mzb_d800:

yeah, ~au$100 for a wl500gp ... seems like madness not to have gone for the 500gp earlier ... but enjoying it now either way

[13:56:14]

hnitsuj:

don't need 'n' wireless or whatever – don't need it at all tbh but it'd be a nice bonus for my wifey's laptop & DS

[13:56:54]

hnitsuj:

house insurance loss adjuster comes out tuesday – if they're paying out I'll go for it – if not I'll need the cash for a new phone

[13:56:55]

blackest:

buffalo g125

[13:57:24]

blackest:

whr g54

[13:57:50]

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[13:57:59]

mzb_d800:

guys in #openwrt can give good idea

[13:58:00]

blackest:

dirt cheap wireless router I've got two of em one with tomao the other with dd-wrt

[13:58:02]

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[13:58:12]

mzb_d800:

http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Hardware/Asus/WL500GP

[13:58:20]

hnitsuj:

doesn't have to be able to run openwrt – it's not the be-all-and-end-all

[13:58:31]

blackest:

tomato has the nice graphs for qos

[13:58:50]

hnitsuj:

whoopee :-\

[13:58:50]

blackest:

dd-wrt has the flying laptop network detection

[13:58:54]

mzb_d800:

OS is your choice ... not going there ... but 500GP is a beast ;)

[13:59:06]

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[13:59:54]

mzb_d800:

ps: for graphs I use gkrellm ;)) no need for web-graphs ... although x-wrt does quite a nice job

[14:00:06]

mzb_d800:

(I like real time;)

[14:00:17]

** otwin likes his wl500P too **

[14:00:28]

mzb_d800:

good man ;)

[14:01:12]

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[14:01:28]

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[14:01:33]

mzb_d800:

top machine ... performance and abilities have surprised me ... and the uptime (inc. *complete* changes to network) totally impresses me

[14:01:56]

hnitsuj:

I expect solid uptime no matter what

[14:02:47]

hnitsuj:

well, within reason. the befsr41 has been pretty reliable barring stupid messenger spam attacks

[14:03:22]

mzb_d800:

I expect my word speaks for itself then ... standard firmware is ok, but with openwrt the sky's the limit

[14:03:56]

mzb_d800:

rock solid, and totally adaptable

[14:03:59]

hnitsuj:

I really feel the need to be able to look in on my cctv from time to time – above anything else it's handy to be able to tell if deliveries have been attempted etc

[14:04:14]

hnitsuj:

even putting the dvr in the router DMZ doesn't work

[14:04:34]

mzb_d800:

not an activex camera or something?

[14:04:50]

hnitsuj:

nah not activex

[14:04:55]

mzb_d800:

:)

[14:05:06]

mzb_d800:

put a light sensor in your letter box? ;))

[14:05:19]

hnitsuj:

four camera cctv dvr behind one network port – or web port

[14:05:19]

mzb_d800:

"You've got mail" :)

[14:05:31]

mzb_d800:

gee

[14:05:55]

hnitsuj:

one of the ones we make at work – picked up a dead one on fleabay for $silly

[14:06:04]

mzb_d800:

heh

[14:06:05]

hnitsuj:

only needed a PSU & new HDD :)

[14:06:21]

hnitsuj:

network viewing software works great on the local net, just not over WAN

[14:06:33]

mzb_d800:

ah, so not camera alone, but a complete box?

[14:06:38]

hnitsuj:

hell yeah

[14:06:58]

hnitsuj:

250GB HDD – enough for 2 weeks of full PAL MJPEG

[14:07:08]

mzb_d800:

tzp?

[14:07:26]

mzb_d800:

or fixed?

[14:07:31]

hnitsuj:

got a low recording framerate ordinarily then rack it up to max during periods of activity

[14:07:59]

hnitsuj:

mzb_d800: just fixed. problem with PTZ is they have a tendency to be looking the wrong way when you least want them to :P

[14:08:05]

mzb_d800:

ps: you can run zoneminder on openwrt afaik

[14:08:15]

blackest:

i just run zoneminder on my mythbackend box seems to work fine

[14:08:33]

blackest:

got a couple of cameras on there

[14:08:38]

hnitsuj:

ptz cameras are best used with multizone motion sensors or under control of an operator

[14:09:15]

hnitsuj:

blackest: I'm not wasting resource on shitty cctv. my dvr pulls about 30W full tilt & image quality beats what those naff BTTV cards chuck out

[14:09:41]

hnitsuj:

besides I don't think I have any spare PCI slots :P

[14:10:36]

hnitsuj:

if your cameras produce facial images which are only 1/6 of image height & you record at 320x240.. whoops!

[14:11:15]

hnitsuj:

with a hell of a lot of consumer level CCTV you may aswell not have _any_

[14:11:21]

blackest:

realistically i only see cctv as a deterrent, if they actually need to be used for evidence they failed

[14:11:31]

hnitsuj:

it's not even a deterrent

[14:11:37]

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[14:11:40]

hnitsuj:

as my burglary last week goes to prove

[14:11:46]

hnitsuj:

they looked right into the cameras

[14:12:14]

blackest:

good enough to id them ?

[14:12:29]

hnitsuj:

alarm, no deterrent. window locks, no deterrent. cctv, no deterrent. wtf is gonna stop them?

[14:12:44]

hnitsuj:

blackest: assuming somebody who knows their faces gets to see the footage yeah

[14:12:54]

Davo_Dinkum:

sleeping gas will stop them

[14:13:05]

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[14:13:16]

blackest:

chances are you have at least one community officer in your area, they will know who they are

[14:13:21]

hnitsuj:

Davo_Dinkum: so would a fast acting spring-loaded portcullis :P

[14:13:27]

Davo_Dinkum:

heh

[14:13:40]

mzb_d800:

movement detection, pepper spray and "Hells Angels" membership stickers ;)

[14:14:14]

hnitsuj:

knockout gas, then when they wake up – well let's just say they'd regret waking up

[14:14:34]

blackest:

one nice thing i bought from maplins and was pretty cheap and useful was a motion detector keyed alarm thing

[14:14:57]

hnitsuj:

dog sleeps in the hallway now, kitchen PIR is reinstated

[14:15:08]

blackest:

its attached to the back of my front door which also covers the stairs

[14:15:24]

hnitsuj:

and I found that the kitchen door sensor had shorted out. fixed that pronto

[14:15:59]

hnitsuj:

the things you forget to get around to that end up tripping you up later

[14:16:30]

hnitsuj:

monthly walk tests for the house alarm from now on!

[14:16:32]

mzb_d800:

know the feeling ... almost feel like you need to invite friends around for a BBQ+beers so they can "practice" breaking in ... shame the logic doesn't sit well ;)

[14:17:31]

mzb_d800:

(more creative after a few, and more likely to forget?)

[14:18:23]

hnitsuj:

if it's not too windy this weekend, when I'm not car shopping I'll be fitting PIR security floods

[14:18:42]

mzb_d800:

btw: booby-trapping is illegal in most countries (if you get caught)

[14:18:49]

hnitsuj:

duh!

[14:19:08]

mzb_d800:

but then so is murder ... esp. if they find the body on your front lawn ;)

[14:19:20]

mzb_d800:

(ie: drag them onto the road;)

[14:19:25]

hnitsuj:

yeah – I mean 'what if' the guy who has to force his way in is a fireman/policeman/other trying to save your life!

[14:19:43]

mzb_d800:

uhuh

[14:20:07]

hnitsuj:

that kind of person won't appreciate the blast from an automagically triggered shotgun

[14:20:18]

mzb_d800:

dead fireman on the road outside your burnt-out house might look suspicious ;)

[14:20:59]

hnitsuj:

wonder how much a remote car deadlocking immobiliser would cost

[14:21:06]

mzb_d800:

however, a comatose burglar with pepper-spray burns might only raise serious concerns ;)

[14:21:16]

hnitsuj:

if I'd had something like that they'd not have even made it down the road

[14:22:02]

mzb_d800:

hnitsuj: good luck, sorry to hear about troubles

[14:22:14]

mzb_d800:

gnite

[14:22:20]

hnitsuj:

night, and ta :)

[14:24:19]

mzb_d800:

ps: rubber glove, 1+ foot pipe, fishing sinkers

[14:24:50]

mzb_d800:

(pipe can be plastic)

[14:25:15]

mzb_d800:

pps: strap a laser pointer to the pipe ;;;)))

[14:26:35]

Davo_Dinkum:

what's the name of that gnome web browser?

[14:28:26]

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[14:31:04]

hnitsuj:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=gnome+web+browser

[14:31:12]

mzb_d800:

galeon?

[14:31:53]

hnitsuj:

epiphany

[14:32:28]

Davo_Dinkum:

thanks

[14:32:57]

sid3wind1:

"firefox"

[14:34:01]

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[15:10:48]

psymin:

I wonder how soon 'very soon' is for getting ntsc support on hauppauge 1800 ..

[15:11:08]

jblack_:

What year is it?

[15:12:02]

psymin:

We're in 2008 right now :)

[15:12:24]

psymin:

sept 2007 is when it was mentioned that it would be 'very soon'

[15:13:00]

jblack_:

So, six months and counting.

[15:16:17]

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[15:19:05]

npurciful:

hello, i cant seem to get my IR to work on HDhomerun, anyone willing to help

[15:20:06]

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[15:40:51]

flithm:

hey everyone... I know this has nothing to do with mythtv, but I can't find a straight answer on this. Anyone know if recent versions of freebsd support the hauppauge wintv pvr-150?

[15:44:10]

Dagmar:

Have you tried asking in #FreeBSD or looking on the www.ivtvdriver.org site?

[15:44:48]

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[15:44:54]

flithm:

Dagmar: tried asking in #freebsd, and I thought ivtv was just for linux?

[15:45:00]

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[15:45:14]

Dagmar:

THey would know better than we would

[15:45:20]

flithm:

good point

[15:45:21]

flithm:

:)

[15:46:15]

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[15:50:28]

hnitsuj:

funny but when a friend of mine suggested I try mythtv I didn't think "hmmm I wonder if I can make mythtv run on $OS" – I saw it was for linux, so went with linux

[15:54:21]

PatrickDK:

how boring of you hnitsuj :)

[15:54:42]

PatrickDK:

I don't feel any pitty for the, gentoo freebsd users though

[15:56:30]

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[15:56:38]

hnitsuj:

boring? yeah maybe. so boring I even RTFM'd several times whenever I had free time – before installing mythtv

[15:57:51]

directhex|work:

dear update server for proprietary app, suck less. love directhex

[16:02:01]

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[16:06:06]

Dagmar:

lol

[16:06:14]

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[16:06:48]

** iamlindoro__ arrives at work and settles in for 3–4 hours of website reading. **

[16:07:49]

iamlindoro__:

Mmmm, the Kotaku-Engadget-Slashdot-Wonkette tango

[16:08:13]

Dagmar:

You need to add www.cuteoverload.com to that just to keep them guessing about you

[16:08:43]

iamlindoro__:

Holy God

[16:08:48]

iamlindoro__:

They'd guess about me all right

[16:08:56]

Dagmar:

hehe

[16:09:12]

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[16:14:42]

iamlindoro__:

What the...? Only 5% of Europeans watch HD Programming? Is it because you're waiting to get nice things like 5C Encryption and CableCard and because getting free, unfettered access to the HD digital streams is, je ne sais quoi, too easy?

[16:15:10]

directhex|work:

iamlindoro__, nobody's broadcasting it, and hdtv adoption only started ~20 months ago

[16:15:30]

iamlindoro__:

directhex|work, I had a vague knowledge of that, just reacting to an engadgethd article ;)

[16:15:45]

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[16:16:31]

|Torg|:

DVB-T isnt HD?

[16:16:56]

iamlindoro__:

DVB-anything is just the transmission standard

[16:17:19]

|Torg|:

yes I realize that, but I was under the impression all DVB cards did HD now

[16:17:44]

iamlindoro__:

Sure, but that's no much help when nobody is broadcasting any

[16:17:44]

|Torg|:

altho technicaly my DVB-S cards can, they just dont

[16:17:56]

quicksilver:

most DVB-X cards could support HD

[16:18:00]

quicksilver:

all they do is stream bits

[16:18:09]

quicksilver:

they don't care if the bits are an HD MPEG stream or not.

[16:18:31]

quicksilver:

certainly UK people have successfully received BBCHD on DVB-T cards.

[16:18:36]

quicksilver:

not any more, cos they stopped the trial.

[16:19:22]

iamlindoro__:

quicksilver, BBC-HD still available on DVB-S though, right?

[16:19:27]

|Torg|:

ok, so where do the HD version of Torchwood come from, that you could theoreticly download

[16:19:42]

directhex|work:

bbc-hd, which is dvb-s

[16:19:53]

|Torg|:

qpsk?

[16:20:42]

quicksilver:

iamlindoro__: yes.

[16:21:40]

iamlindoro__:

http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/resources/200 . . . MG030608.jpg

[16:21:54]

iamlindoro__:

This is what most UK viewers look like while watching BBC HD

[16:22:00]

XLV:

scary

[16:23:33]

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[16:26:47]

hnitsuj:

anyway, our HD is gonna be worth waiting for – least from a technical standpoint :P

[16:26:54]

iamlindoro__:

hnitsuj, Most definitely

[16:27:19]

iamlindoro__:

hnitsuj, If you pay close attention you should be able to feel the heat of my fiery jealousy from there

[16:27:41]

|Torg|:

HD is the entire reason I built a mythtv box in the first place

[16:27:48]

jarle:

To help debug a backend that crashes on a regular basis, I want monit to write a note to the backend log each time it has to restart the backend, anybody has an example monit.rc for this?

[16:27:49]

hnitsuj:

USA HD in mpeg2 – average about 8GB/hour.. our DVB-T SDTV is often around 2GB/hour and IIRC HD is at least 4x the resolution. not that our DVB SDTV looks fine, mind

[16:28:09]

hnitsuj:

lego-vision

[16:28:41]

hnitsuj:

woo the locksmith is finally here to do the porch lock. ffs could've done it myself in half an hour

[16:28:57]

|Torg|:

us HD over ATSC and ultimatly what is reboardcast in most cases is h262, I belive HD in the UK is, or at least wil be h264

[16:29:19]

DGnome:

Euro HD is 1080i h.264

[16:29:24]

hnitsuj:

aye – the paid-for HD is h.264

[16:29:34]

hnitsuj:

FTA HDTV has yet to arrive in any measurable quantity

[16:29:58]

hnitsuj:

won't arrive on terrestrial for at least 4 years I reckon – if ever

[16:30:53]

|Torg|:

the majority of the US HD programming is still brodcast yet our cable and sat providers want to charge a premium for it. The real reason I biult myth to beign with was to tell the cable comapny to shove it and build a ystem taht got better quality as well as the subscition was free

[16:30:54]

hnitsuj:

but, at least I have hardware which'll play it now :)

[16:31:48]

iamlindoro__:

hnitsuj, Did you finally buy a TV that will?

[16:32:00]

hnitsuj:

plus it's going to be a number of years before the majority of programming is HD

[16:32:05]

hnitsuj:

iamlindoro__: pfft of course not!

[16:32:06]

|Torg|:

we have reoccuring fights over things like 5C, brodcast flags and otherwise trying to limit free access to HD content

[16:32:14]

iamlindoro__:

hnitsuj, hehe, didn't figure you had

[16:32:16]

hnitsuj:

why buy a HDTV if there's nothing to put on it?

[16:32:52]

|Torg|:

upconvering DVDs is sort of a middle gound, you can do that now

[16:33:08]

hnitsuj:

I won't taint my home broadband connection with.some.snotty.leet.mkv-file_from-some-group.or.other.sxx.eyy.mkv

[16:33:22]

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[16:33:22]

hnitsuj:

|Torg|: not with mythtv you can't

[16:33:46]

|Torg|:

hnitsuj: corect but that is not what you asked

[16:33:50]

hnitsuj:

and I flat refuse to buy a new player. can't even remember the last time I watched a DVD

[16:33:55]

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[16:34:28]

hnitsuj:

hopefully by the time I've got a proper HD display, software scaling niceness will be in mythtv

[16:34:30]

iamlindoro__:

Heh, the worst part of #mythtv-users is everyone's insistence on answering purely rhetorical questions

[16:34:36]

orthoevra:

dvd? whats that? i think those now live with VHS tapes now

[16:34:44]

|Torg|:

and techncially you can upconvert with mplayer, but at the cost of allot of CPU

[16:35:41]

hnitsuj:

|Torg|: I have a lot of CPU. I dunno if the posh upscaling software is as greedy as decoding h.264 BBC HD though

[16:35:54]

iamlindoro__:

profoundly doubtful

[16:36:40]

iamlindoro__:

And if it *is* as CPU-hungry, it better do something extra special like digitally remove Angelina Jolie's clothing every time she appears onscreen.

[16:37:01]

hnitsuj:

as if I'd ever watch anything with her in it

[16:37:03]

hnitsuj:

pfft

[16:37:52]

iamlindoro__:

Well, I'd be open to making the selection for Greedy2xNudity HW filter a dropdown box.

[16:37:56]

jamesd:

hmm.. myth has no problem using one of my 2.4ghz opteron cores 100% displaying TV onto a nvidia card fx1400... so i really have to think that its possible to have too much cpu for myth.

[16:38:12]

directhex|work:

jamesd, wrong

[16:38:16]

quicksilver:

It's quite easy to imagine upscaling being less CPU work than h.264 decoding.

[16:38:33]

iamlindoro__:

quicksilver, I'm pretty sure that's what we were all saying

[16:38:37]

quicksilver:

h.264 is a lot of work. Upscaling is pretty simple stuff.

[16:38:46]

quicksilver:

yes, I was just agreeing :)

[16:38:57]

hnitsuj:

haven't looked at sw scaling for ages. be worthwhile knowing

[16:39:23]

directhex|work:

you can't magic pixels out of nowhere. this isn't csi

[16:39:37]

iamlindoro__:

If I want to watch a DVD upscaled to HD resolutions and passed off as real HD I'll just turn on most of my HD movie channels :)

[16:39:50]

hnitsuj:

directhex|work: true but some scalers definitely look better than others

[16:39:54]

|Torg|:

or play one of my HDDVDs

[16:40:08]

hnitsuj:

hahaha. play. hddvd. in linux. hahahaha

[16:40:12]

directhex|work:

hnitsuj, doubtless. the fact remains though. upscaling is not some magical silver bullet

[16:40:21]

|Torg|:

upscaling is basicly a shaprmess filter

[16:40:48]

hnitsuj:

directhex|work: I wasn't saying it is

[16:40:58]

|Torg|:

hnitsuj: this may com as a sock to you but some people play DVDs with a DVD player and record TV with a DVR

[16:41:12]

hnitsuj:

:-O

[16:41:17]

hnitsuj:

ETOOMANYBOXES

[16:41:17]

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[16:41:17]

directhex|work:

anyway, i use my hdtv all the time, with legit hd content. hence buying an hdtv was a good idea

[16:41:41]

|Torg|:

140 programs, using 922 GB (5 days 18 hrs 29 mins) out of 1.5 TB (982 GB free).

[16:41:48]

|Torg|:

thats entirely HD content

[16:42:01]

** iamlindoro__ sees this becoming a penis-measuring awfully quick **

[16:42:19]

PatrickDK:

mines 4", and yours?

[16:42:25]

siXy|work is now known as siXy

[16:42:53]

XLV:

intel G45 chipset with x4500HD h264 gpu decoding? anyone knows if intel has plans to support that in linux?

[16:43:10]

directhex|work:

XLV, vague plans

[16:43:15]

** iamlindoro__ prefers to leave his "Hard Drive Size" between him and his long string of anonymous one-night stands, thankyewverymuch! **

[16:43:47]

hnitsuj:

vague rumours of hints of plans

[16:44:09]

|Torg|:

iamlindoro first off its not *a* hard drive, its an array. Secondly I put it there to show there was planty of HD stuff to play on my HD tv, hence the reason I purchased it.

[16:44:12]

hnitsuj:

slashdotted & dugg ^^^

[16:44:34]

hnitsuj:

if it ain't > 15Mbits h.264 it's not HDTV :P

[16:44:43]

jamesd:

iamlindoro, you record all your one night stands? i hope you get model/actress releases signed by the girls ;-)

[16:44:51]

|Torg|:

its h264, and its 1080I

[16:44:55]

** iamlindoro__ is pretty sure 80% of Net Denizens have Asperger's. **

[16:44:55]

|Torg|:

err 262

[16:45:07]

directhex|work:

hnitsuj, then we have a problem for ever getting hd on freeview

[16:45:08]

Dagmar:

jamesd: Pfft. Those are only needed if you intend to sell the videos

[16:45:13]

iamlindoro__:

jamesd, Not for broadcast ;)

[16:46:38]

XLV:

since my crt tv has died, i am still holding off getting a hd lcd tv.. ofcourse i could slap a e6600/mb/ram on the htpc and be done with it ( for the time being i use one of my 24" 1920x1200 monitors as tv ;-) )

[16:47:48]

hnitsuj:

arghhh clueless fucking fucks! they took the old lock away last wednesday, ordered a new one to fit today. latch was the wrong way round so the dim fuck dismantled it in the van & lost a lever. fucking idiot. sans front porch door closing for yet more time. fucking useless fucks

[16:48:33]

XLV:

but here hd broadcast in non-existant, only the some.snotty.leet.mkv-file_from-some-group.or.other.sxx.eyy.mkv hnitsuj mentioned anyhow... only if i use dvb-s hd

[16:49:24]

hnitsuj:

this is the same crew who changed the front door lock last week & left it with the screws which hold the plate into the door at weird angles, definitely not flush with the door. however much they pay those guys it's way too damn much

[16:54:55]

XLV:

if i went with dvb-s hd route, any info on whats broadcasted out there on eu sats? and also, since i assume i would need to pay subscription, whats the deal with multiple subscriptions and cams? is it possible on one card to have the credits for more than one subscription for more than one channels?

[16:55:03]

hnitsuj:

they're coming back to fix it, somehow, I don't care. outside their working hours. damn idiots. insurance company is going to get the brunt of this too.

[16:55:14]

directhex|work:

XLV, where in europe, exactly?

[16:55:18]

orthoevra:

geez importing a million records thru wireless on a vpn take a long time

[16:55:21]

XLV:

greece

[16:55:37]

directhex|work:

XLV, i don't know about offerings available in greece. try lyngsat.com anyway

[16:57:42]

directhex|work:

bloody hell, http://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/Greece.html is all they get FTA in greece? O_o

[16:58:24]

directhex|work:

hm, looks like hellas sat don't allow use of non-set-top-box access

[16:58:40]

directhex|work:

no wonder my greek co worker is such a dodgy git when it comes to this stuff, they're worse than sky!

[16:58:59]

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[17:01:07]

XLV:

yeah, pretty pathetic.. how about the multiple credits on one card/cam? is that possible? i have never used any sat tv up to now ( got a dual dvb-s/t receiver, but i havent installed yet a dish )

[17:01:22]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

XLV: I'm just using computer monitors for HD now... a 20" CRT in the bedroom runs at 1920x1280 – HD is a little small on it (approx 17" widescreen equivalent), but it's sharp as can be...

[17:01:27]

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[17:01:27]

iamlindoro__:

XLV, I'm pretty sure the CAMs are all per-service

[17:01:29]

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[17:02:22]

directhex|work:

aye, they are

[17:02:29]

directhex|work:

unless the viewing card is multi-service

[17:02:42]

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[17:03:01]

XLV:

so you change cards back and forth? pretty lame also..

[17:03:03]

|Torg|:

CAMs are per encrytion service

[17:03:09]

iamlindoro__:

I have a Dish + DVB-S card, but the only spot in my condo I can put it up faces southwest... not sure I have any birds I can point at from this geographic location :(

[17:03:11]

directhex|work:

that too

[17:03:39]

directhex|work:

|Torg|, what he's asking, though, is if there are 2 services (e.g. two networks both on seca2) can he share a cam

[17:04:06]

Aval0n:

guys

[17:04:12]

** J-e-f-f-A|work cams don't exist for us in the US... :-( **

[17:04:14]

Aval0n:

I want to put analog tv in my kids rooms

[17:04:41]

Aval0n:

is the hauppage mediamvp a good cheap solution?

[17:04:47]

directhex|work:

no you can't restrict the porn per-frontend

[17:04:59]

|Torg|:

J-e-f-f-A they do exist, go look at an older dishnet or directv reciver, the card they use is a cyto module for the built in CAM

[17:05:09]

Aval0n:

hey torg

[17:05:13]

|Torg|:

and tehcnailly my current dishnt reciver has a CAM too, its just built in

[17:05:14]

Aval0n:

you busy?

[17:05:24]

|Torg|:

not really, whats up?

[17:05:25]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

|Torg|: Yes, but you can't use them in a PC-based solution, can you?

[17:05:31]

Aval0n:

can you give me call real quick?

[17:05:34]

|Torg|:

sure

[17:05:37]

Aval0n:

wanted to ask ya something

[17:05:44]

Aval0n:

you have my cell?

[17:05:47]

Aval0n:

the 0203 one/

[17:05:49]

Aval0n:

?

[17:06:01]

|Torg|:

J-e-f-f-A no not without a frame caputer card, or doing somehing that is illegal

[17:06:46]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

|Torg|: yeah, that's what I though... I'm using 3x Dish STB's with S-Video into PVR-xxx cards now... wanted to get rid of the Digital -> Analog -> Digital conversion...

[17:07:42]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, Although there's still the D/A/D conversion, are you gving any thought to the HD PVR?

[17:07:50]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

|Torg|: For 2 reasons — 1) I lose the digital audio, and 2) Lose quality and greater file size... Dish 544x480 is approx 1GB/hr, and PVR-500 at same resolution is about 3.2GB/hr

[17:08:03]

iamlindoro__:

Samples look very very purty

[17:10:05]

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[17:11:28]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: No, since I can't get the HD into Myth...

[17:12:28]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A, I meant the Hauppauge HD PVR, the HD Component Capture device

[17:12:31]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: Now if the SAT companies were required to provide Firewire like the Cable companies are, and if it was non-encrypted, I'd be all set...

[17:12:44]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: Yeah, I've thought about that... Any more news on it?

[17:12:59]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, other than "Coming Real soon now?" No. ;)

[17:13:13]

iamlindoro__:

Although we have samples, so that's something new I guess.

[17:13:20]

iamlindoro__:

sample captures, that is

[17:13:40]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: Ugh, I hope it's not 'vaporware'... OOh, actual capture samples? That sounds more promising... Does it do digital audio too?

[17:13:55]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, Yes, it appears so

[17:14:05]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: hummm.... ;-) ;-) ;-)

[17:14:10]

iamlindoro__:

apparently has both RCA and optical in

[17:15:04]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: The next thing the 'industry' will do then is probably outlaw component output... Right? They'll force everything to switch to encrpted hdmi...

[17:15:43]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: DVD players with RGB output are outlawed in the US... (They can be component, but not RGB)

[17:15:55]

A_:

source?

[17:16:05]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, My thought on that is that they'll have an awful hard time getting that past the FCC (naive, I know) because there are a huge number of HDTVs with only Component ins

[17:16:31]

iamlindoro__:

A_, Discussions with Hauppauge Engineers in this very room

[17:16:41]

A_:

good source :)

[17:16:44]

iamlindoro__:

(also in #linuxtv)

[17:16:54]

iamlindoro__:

A_, Indeed!

[17:16:58]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: Gee, are they taking pre-orders?

[17:17:00]

A_:

what about SDI output?

[17:17:14]

iamlindoro__:

A_, Not that I'm aware of (but then again, haven't asked)

[17:17:25]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, No preorders yet... not even a product page yet

[17:17:55]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, From what people have been hearin from Hauppauge PR, April-May seems the most likely release window

[17:18:03]

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[17:19:14]

Dagmar:

*sigh*

[17:19:19]

Dagmar:

Goddamn it

[17:19:31]

Dagmar:

Why are people so thick?

[17:19:34]

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[17:19:46]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

iamlindoro__: I wonder how good the compression is on the encoder... Probably nowhere near as good as the broadcast itself... (Like I said about Dish — they transmit at 544x480 mpeg2 and get 1GB/hr compression – by the time it goes through my PVR-500, it's 3.2GB/hr in the same quality/resolution...)

[17:20:04]

Dagmar:

I say "don't set this back to 66048 without explaining where the number came from" and someone posts a long and pointless diatribe explaining what the f**k overlay colors do

[17:21:06]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

Dagmar: What color does "66048" equate to?

[17:21:21]

Dagmar:

Look at what the tool wrote

[17:21:25]

iamlindoro__:

J-e-f-f-A|work, I'm a bit torn at this point on how to work SD stuff-- My thought is I will determine which channels are fairly regularly 5C'ed (pretty much HBO HD, Starz HD, and one or two others) and use the HD PVR for that, and rely on firewire otherwise.

[17:21:44]

Dagmar:

J-e-f-f-a: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Nvidia

[17:21:59]

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[17:21:59]

Dagmar:

er hit the "discussion" page

[17:22:50]

Dagmar:

"but this page was written with the intention to provide one single solution working in all cases!"

[17:23:04]

Dagmar:

...so then why are they picking what amounts to a randomly dark color

[17:23:20]

hnitsuj:

heh. locksmithy is indeed returning tonight. wouldn't care about the porch door ordinarily except all the post & papers are getting wet

[17:23:21]

Dagmar:

"Michael" also needs to learn that it's a wiki

[17:23:24]

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[17:23:46]

AndyCap:

pick a blacker than black color. :P

[17:23:47]

Dagmar:

I'm well aware of what the hell the number does. I want to know why and where the hell 66048 came from initially, other than someone just picked it out of a hat

[17:23:55]

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[17:24:22]

Dagmar:

AndyCap: That would actually be the _safe_ thing to do for NTSC outputs, since black is actually #121212 or 4 IRE if I remember correctly.

[17:24:29]

Dagmar:

Using "true black" would work perfectly.

[17:24:32]

eiersalat:

iamlindoro: thanks for you help yesterday, i am now a happy .21 user :)

[17:24:41]

hnitsuj:

and PAL doesn't really have IRE values, technically ;)

[17:24:52]

Dagmar:

I know it doesn't.

[17:25:07]

hnitsuj:

good to use as a rule of thumb though

[17:25:13]

iamlindoro__:

eiersalat, Don't remember what I did, but you're still welcome ;)

[17:25:22]

Dagmar:

Just the same, what would probably be a saner value would be 65793, since that's #010101 and is HIGHLY unlikely to appear on ayone's desktop

[17:26:04]

AndyCap:

but what rgb values gets what tvoutput is up to the id10t with his hand on nvidia-settings sliders?

[17:26:10]

Dagmar:

...and it's at least more "regular" than 66048 which is #010200

[17:26:35]

Dagmar:

AndyCap: No, it's not actually

[17:26:36]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

Dagmar: Yeah, basically what he's saying (very long-windedly) is that pure-black (0) works fine for full-screen, but is a color widely used for other stuff... and that "66048" must equate to a very dark color that to the human eye is 'black', and isn't likely to be used by anything else...

[17:26:42]

hnitsuj:

Dagmar: at a guess I'd say people have only been regurgitating the info without having a clue what it's all about

[17:26:57]

Dagmar:

hnitsuj: EXACTLY. And THAT is BAD.

[17:27:05]

hnitsuj:

if it works for them I can't see the issue

[17:27:09]

Dagmar:

That section can't be "just use this value"

[17:27:18]

hnitsuj:

so put it right ;)

[17:27:20]

Dagmar:

It has to be explained or you're basically leaving all users with a eild guess

[17:27:28]

Dagmar:

s/eild/wild/

[17:27:33]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

Dagmar: I remember playing with a TV player app on windoze, which used a violet overlay color... I could bring up 'mspaint' and paint violet and move it over the tv window and have it show through... that's what would happen with black too...

[17:28:04]

hnitsuj:

J-e-f-f-A|work: aye I've seen similar things when I've been doing graphics editing & playing meeja at the same time

[17:28:06]

Dagmar:

J-e-f-f-a: I already said... I am completely familiar with what an overlay color is used for and how it works.

[17:28:35]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

Dagmar: Sorry, didn't intend it to be offensive – sorry if it sounded that way...

[17:28:56]

Dagmar:

All this means is that if some wank is using MythTV windowed (which isn't really how it was meant to be used) unless they have say, Mozilla or an xterm done up completely 000000 black and put it OVER the Myth window, they're not going to have a problem

[17:29:19]

Dagmar:

If their desktop background is all black, not a whole hell of a lot is going to happen because the memory window isn't being painted there

[17:29:42]

Dagmar:

The other thing that cheeses me is that the guy is talking about a blue line "around" the video

[17:29:53]

Dagmar:

No, the blue line has pretty much been the upper and left edges every time I've seen or heard of it

[17:30:19]

Dagmar:

...it's not that the video is the wrong size, it's that something is being used as an offset instead of a coord

[17:30:25]

iamlindoro__:

I've watchlisted the Why MythTV Sucks page for my daily wiki ragegasm

[17:30:54]

Dagmar:

Holy shit

[17:30:54]

Dagmar:

"Select the axe with:"

[17:30:58]

Dagmar:

AXE?!?

[17:31:07]

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[17:31:08]

Dagmar:

Can we bury one of those in his head

[17:31:16]

Dagmar:

Pleeeeease?

[17:31:22]

iamlindoro__:

Heh, because the singular of axis is *obviously* Axe

[17:31:57]

Dagmar:

...and because everyone wants buttons that may or may not change the channel OR the volume, depending on something you might have pressed 20 minutes ago

[17:32:20]

** iamlindoro__ whips out a red pencil and marks the wiki: "Poor effort. See me after class." **

[17:33:22]

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[17:37:12]

hnitsuj:

well, so much for my being done with anger today (re locksmiths)... time to peek at the "why users suck" page

[17:38:36]

hnitsuj:

anybody up for just deleting it? would make a valuable contribution ;)

[17:39:43]

iamlindoro__:

hnitsuj, Completely up for it, but it would have to be administratively done or he'd just revert it

[17:39:51]

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[17:40:23]

iamlindoro__:

I *had* considered registering a new account so that I could repeatedly change it to "lick my balls" without fear of reprisal for the pages I maintain

[17:40:40]

Dagmar:

I still say it serves as a useful repository for the destruction of bad ideas.

[17:41:05]

Dagmar:

I just don't understand how this Xavier bloke can completely overlook the fact that what he's suggesting means that *everythign* would have to go through a damn menu

[17:41:17]

Dagmar:

...in addition to the other insanity he's got there.

[17:41:58]

hnitsuj:

XBMC works that way & I wouldn't care but the icons on the buttons which pop up on the teeny ickle applet are so small they're unreadable & it's difficult to determine which is highlighted

[17:42:32]

Dagmar:

If you want WAF you're going to have to keep one-button-press access to those functions.

[17:42:57]

Dagmar:

The wife is not going to want to hit a button for a menu to do something as simple as change the volume

[17:43:00]

hnitsuj:

Dagmar: yeah but at the same time WAF on remotes that have more buttons than PC keyboards is low too ;)

[17:43:27]

Dagmar:

Yeah, but like I said before, ten buttons would be posh. Eight would be doable. Six is not fucking happening without making _everything_ go through a menu.

[17:43:36]

iamlindoro__:

If your wife can't figure out the buttons marked VolUp and VolDown she should be beaten to death with a tack hammer.

[17:43:37]

Dagmar:

Plus, some asshole has a patent on radial menus.

[17:44:09]

Dagmar:

...so a compass rose menu of sorts is just basically waiting for some asshole to submarine things.

[17:44:11]

iamlindoro__:

And that's not sex-exclusive. Any human being should get the same treatment for being a fungus in the gene pool

[17:44:29]

hnitsuj:

I have a suggestion: Lots of people claim they're so in love with their TiVo thingy they'd marry it if only it were legal – so er.. how many buttons does its remote have hmm? case closed!

[17:44:37]

Dagmar:

It's got like 20 on it

[17:44:42]

hnitsuj:

case closed

[17:44:48]

Dagmar:

I think they ahve a patent on the thumbs up/down thing tho

[17:45:12]

iamlindoro__:

We'll just mark the Myth equivalents "FTW" and "FTL"

[17:45:16]

sid3wind1:

thumbs thing?

[17:45:16]

iamlindoro__:

;)

[17:45:16]

hnitsuj:

still, case closed. they probably spent a fair bit of money researching their UI, the remote etc

[17:45:18]

sid3wind1:

like pandora.com has?

[17:45:19]

sid3wind1:

etc

[17:45:24]

Dagmar:

Oooo I like that idea. :)

[17:45:44]

Dagmar:

sid3wind1: Yes. The hideous ugliness about TiVo is that it's really well designed.

[17:45:53]

Dagmar:

It's the perfect Opiate Dealer.

[17:46:09]

Dagmar:

You watch a show, and you like it, and you can hit "thumbs up" a time or three to tell the box you like that show.

[17:46:13]

sid3wind1:

:)

[17:46:16]

Dagmar:

If you don't like it, you hit "thumbs down"

[17:46:19]

sid3wind1:

then what does it do?

[17:46:22]

sid3wind1:

records the next ones or so?

[17:46:38]

hnitsuj:

you guys wouldn't believe how long it took me to find out you could just press 'record' while in the EPG or programme finder to make a show record

[17:46:51]

Dagmar:

This information goes to their database, where it is analyzed by psychics who then begin to tell the box to record everything you ever thought you MIGHT want to watch, if only you'd ever known it was on.

[17:46:54]

hnitsuj:

think I'd been using it like 2 years

[17:47:10]

Dagmar:

...and the next thing you know, you come home, and there's 14 hours of shit you just HAVE to watch and no time for sleep before work the next day.

[17:47:10]

sid3wind1:

heheh

[17:47:16]

Dagmar:

It is _evil_

[17:47:23]

Dagmar:

It's one thing to freebase television.

[17:47:36]

Dagmar:

It's entirely although to let a psychic drug dealer pick the programs you _have_ to watch

[17:47:37]

hnitsuj:

Dagmar: something similar for myth would be way cool and has been discussed endlessly with the same conclusion – how would anybody stop it being spammed?

[17:47:52]

Dagmar:

They'd only be spamming themselves.

[17:48:02]

|Torg|:

the common statemnt from long time tico users is "I try to teach the thing that I like crime drames for two years and still it does not get it. But I watch ONE porno..."

[17:48:19]

Dagmar:

These recommendations don't go out to other tivo viewers. It's looking to build a profile of what's most likely to sap YOUR time away, not everyone's.

[17:48:23]

hnitsuj:

|Torg|: a tivo owner I work with says it's surprisingly spot on in the UK

[17:48:43]

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[17:48:46]

Dagmar:

It can be as specific as recording movies about giant killer robots attacking a nunnery, but not movies about giant killer lizards attacking a nunnery.

[17:49:01]

|Torg|:

I used to have one of the directv tivos a long time ago. I would come home and find hours of shit I never intended to watch recordd for me

[17:49:09]

iamlindoro__:

I used to work with the guy who wrote "Hacking TiVo." He was a tool.

[17:49:12]

hnitsuj:

I plan to make the custom record rules more user friendly one day

[17:49:13]

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[17:49:36]

iamlindoro__:

If that man could make babies with his tivo he'd totally do it

[17:49:44]

hnitsuj:

having to enter what might as well be mysql in that little text box is a mare

[17:49:56]

|Torg|:

http://sec.edgar-online.com/1999/09/08/08/000 . . . ection14.asp

[17:50:05]

|Torg|:

ther Dagmar is the trademark

[17:50:43]

Dagmar:

What about trademarks?

[17:50:57]

|Torg|:

did you say Tivo trademarked thumbs up and thumbs down

[17:51:01]

Dagmar:

Patents != Trademarks

[17:51:07]

Dagmar:

I said they _patented_ it

[17:51:15]

|Torg|:

no they trademarked it

[17:51:23]

Dagmar:

No, lrn2reed

[17:51:30]

Dagmar:

They trademarked the thumbs logos

[17:51:48]

Dagmar:

...the _logos_

[17:51:58]

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[17:52:09]

Dagmar:

This does not mean they didn't patent the process of using that as an indicator of user affinity to programming

[17:52:33]

jackson:

didn't tivo patent the status bar?

[17:54:43]

|Torg|:

if they did patent it, Tivo did not call it that

[17:55:35]

|Torg|:

there are 266 registtred patents to Tvio, thumbs and stutus are not in any of the titles. I did not search the actial bodies of the patents

[17:56:14]

jackson:

did they term is something like the "progress" bar?

[17:56:36]

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[17:57:01]

|Torg|:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sec . . . ivo+AND+bar)

[17:57:16]

|Torg|:

patent 7,321,716 I belive is what you are talking baout

[17:58:18]

jackson:

ahh, the cache bar :)

[17:59:05]

|Torg|:

keep in mind like MANY of the patnts, nobody acatly uses the technology. The US patent office is mainly the use of litigants to start patrnig thengs so what hwne somene else come up iwth the idea they can sue them for a great sum

[17:59:23]

|Torg|:

about 99% of US pantets are pure and utter bull shit

[18:00:12]

jackson:

understood

[18:00:16]

|Torg|:

I could argue Tivo has a patent on remote controls, well at least ones that you use your thumb to control. However Apple uses one very much like what Tivo did. And did so LONG beofer Tivo patnted it

[18:00:32]

XLV:

all the legal processes involved if you get into such trouble isnt though

[18:00:38]

|Torg|:

I can also point you tward tivos "time shifing" patent, menaing technaly mythtv is in voliation of it

[18:01:21]

|Torg|:

it started with our wonderful president allowing patents to process instead of invention

[18:01:55]

|Torg|:

and arguably the only thing that keeps mythtv "safe" is there are no assest to sieze

[18:02:28]

jackson:

as it's not a commercial product

[18:02:34]

XLV:

so every program out there that includes time shifting pays royalties to tivo?

[18:02:36]

|Torg|:

exactly

[18:02:49]

sid3wind1:

uhh

[18:02:54]

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[18:02:54]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[18:02:55]

|Torg|:

XLV thats what Tivo would like, their lawsuit agsint Echostar is big news now

[18:02:57]

sid3wind1:

:)

[18:04:04]

|Torg|:

Tivo::DVR ~= RIAA::music ~= MPAA::movies

[18:04:35]

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[18:04:54]

speedsix:

Hi all

[18:04:57]

Deek:

dum de dum, time to mess with xport

[18:05:37]

speedsix:

Does anyone know if you can force a re-scan of music via the command line?

[18:05:47]

XLV:

pathetic...The patent in question, which TiVo filed for in 1998, is described by the company as an "invention allowing the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program." http://www.news.com/TiVo-sues-EchoStar-over-D . . . ml?tag=st.nl is there any court in the world where such vague patents can be enforced?

[18:06:31]

|Torg|:

yes XLV in the US

[18:06:33]

XLV:

i will patent name writing on the snow when pissing..

[18:07:20]

|Torg|:

http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/i . . . 885420080203

[18:07:45]

XLV:

|Torg|, filling such patents is one thing, winning litigation over them is another

[18:08:30]

|Torg|:

XLV read the reuters article, Tivo already won over that patent, twice

[18:09:46]

Dagmar:

They deserved to win

[18:10:11]

Dagmar:

A *substantial* chunk of their operating budget went to defending themselves against fucking industry trolls for the first 3 years they were in operation

[18:10:30]

Dagmar:

"automatic commercial skipping is theft! Give us money!" blah blah blah

[18:10:55]

Dagmar:

"recording video digitally is theft! Give us money!" blah blah blah

[18:11:13]

Dagmar:

"we own the rights to the letters q, x, and e. Give us money!" blah blah blah

[18:12:08]

|Torg|:

automatic commerical skipping was replay tv, tivo sued them out of existance

[18:12:09]

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[18:12:25]

Dagmar:

TiVo was sued first.

[18:12:43]

Dagmar:

Replay was also sued by someone OTHER than TiVo on it

[18:13:02]

Dagmar:

this I remember very well because the boxes had to be shipped with commercial skip turned off.

[18:13:07]

|Torg|:

Tivo' winning over Echostar is a prime example of just how outragious the US patente litigation has become

[18:13:10]

Dagmar:

*shipped* mind you

[18:13:34]

Dagmar:

Torg: What, over incorporating what TiVo patented into their boxes without even so much as talking about it?

[18:13:57]

Dagmar:

Replay was very sneaky and added a "new" feature called "30 second skip" in the first update the box downloaded the moment you plugged it in

[18:14:04]

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[18:15:39]

XLV:

Dagmar, still, those arent patents, they are jokes.. ust because tivo was subjected to such litigation, it doesnt mean they can subject other to similar treatment.. what they have patented exactly, the existance of two tuners in a stb?

[18:15:47]

Dagmar:

Nope

[18:15:53]

Dagmar:

The whole recommendation process was a good one

[18:16:32]

|Torg|:

Dagmar I personly do not belive yo should be able to pantent process. I can get a tuner, a disk and record or watch. But I can not record AND watch becase of a "patent" Tivo holds

[18:16:46]

Dibblah:

Of course you can.

[18:16:50]

|Torg|:

they didnt invent anyhting, they took two pices of technoly and logicly ued them together

[18:16:51]

Dagmar:

It's mainly a matter of tivo went through all the bullshit of developing a product and being sued over it every step of the way, just so companies could NOT licence the finished deal from them?

[18:16:52]

Dibblah:

You license the patent.

[18:16:55]

Dagmar:

That's lame

[18:17:12]

Dagmar:

Torg: Check their patents yourself

[18:17:50]

|Torg|:

Dagmar: where do you think I got those links in the first place

[18:18:03]

Dagmar:

That was a link to a _trademark_ issue.

[18:18:37]

Dagmar:

...and the other was just a news article.

[18:18:45]

Dagmar:

Sorry, but knee-jerk reactions aren't good enough for this one

[18:18:57]

Dagmar:

It involves actual reading of long and winding (and very boring) legal documents.

[18:19:07]

Dibblah:

Eh? Knee-jerk reactions are always good enough.

[18:19:16]

Dagmar:

heh

[18:19:23]

Dibblah:

Obviously, you don't skim over /. enough to know that ;)

[18:19:32]

Dagmar:

I really try not to

[18:19:34]

|Torg|:

http://patft.uspto.gov is the US goverment patent offices searchable patnten site

[18:20:24]

Dagmar:

I honestly want to get Malda to implement a newer meta-moderation that allows people to up and *challenge* the accuracy of some of the bullshit that retards flag as 5) Informative when every single bit of it is _wrong_ but "sounds" informative.

[18:20:33]

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[18:21:40]

Dibblah:

Realistically, noone cares if it's accurate.

[18:21:48]

Dibblah:

It's all just a bit of a circle jerk.

[18:22:06]

|Torg|:

Dagmar: I didnt pull it from slashdot, I pulled the patents from the patent office

[18:22:24]

Dagmar:

Well, I for one am glad that TiVo doesn't make a habit of even giving homebrew people naughty looks

[18:22:43]

Dibblah:

Uhm?

[18:22:52]

Dibblah:

Oh, right – Not Tivo homebrew.

[18:23:34]

Dibblah:

How they managed to pull off the "we're hacker friendly" lark I really don't understand.

[18:23:41]

Dagmar:

They did it by not suing us

[18:24:04]

Dibblah:

Yup. Signing your kernel so a untrusted one can't boot is definitely friendly.

[18:24:10]

Dagmar:

When people started posting docs online on how to upgrade the 40Gb unit to 80Gb and not shell out another $400, they all but applauded the guys

[18:24:41]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Either that or suffer more lawsuits on that one

[18:25:18]

Dagmar:

Torg: Did anyone else happen to have actually implemented this cache bar feature at the time?? No.

[18:25:42]

Dagmar:

They might lose that one on obviousness in review, but they definitely were the first people to get something to market using it.

[18:26:25]

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[18:26:43]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Seriously. If they hadn't, it was only going to be a matter of time before more industry people got lawyers to sue them for allowing people to "easily" copy recordings out of the tivo and onto other media losslessly

[18:26:45]

|Torg|:

I take it the status bar in Solaris, or even the flying docuemtns in Windows dont count

[18:27:02]

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[18:27:03]

|Torg|:

not so any of the performance tools, benchmarking tools or other administrative tools liek gkrellm

[18:27:15]

Dagmar:

...or people started making firmwares to install that would pull commercial listings and whatnot from somewhere else (like a competitor) which would definitely kill their business model.

[18:27:19]

directhex:

prior art doesn't matter for US patents

[18:27:27]

|Torg|:

no a cache status bar is most certainly a "new" thing, and we should all be gratfull Tivo thought of it

[18:27:29]

Dagmar:

Prior art actually *does* matter for US patents.

[18:27:39]

Dagmar:

The patent office just *sucks* at researching them on their own.

[18:28:10]

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[18:28:22]

Dagmar:

Torg: So now go put some effort into backing up your argument and look up specifically which patents Echostar was infringing on, because it wasn't that cache bar.

[18:29:06]

Dagmar:

directhex: If you want to front the money for the applicaiton, I'm pretty sure I could dig up the old drafts I had for trying to get a patent on masturbation and sexual reproduction.

[18:29:14]

|Torg|:

No Dagmar I didnt say it was, I looked up the cahe bar patent because jackson was asking about it

[18:29:25]

Dagmar:

We could sue pretty much fucking (pun intended) everyone.

[18:30:10]

Dagmar:

At any rate, I can flee the office now. whoohooo!

[18:30:22]

** Dagmar goes *p3Wf* **

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[18:38:25]

matty-:

I'm sure you could patent a masturbation technique especially if you add a twist.

[18:38:38]

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[18:38:47]

daedalus_:

Ba-dum-bump

[18:40:58]

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[18:44:12]

daedalus_:

They should change the patent submission process so you have to submit the _problem_ your patent is trying to solve to a group of PhD's in the field and ask for solutions. If 2 out of 5 come back with the solution you're trying to patent, then your patent is obvious. End of stupidity.

[18:45:13]

JohnMahowald:

Beginning of budget problems for patent office

[18:45:25]

Deek:

daedalus_: You really want to hand out that many new patents?

[18:45:26]

daedalus_:

no, the applicant has to do this.

[18:45:40]

daedalus_:

No, this is on top of the cuurrent process.

[18:45:47]

daedalus_:

It's just a new pre-filter.

[18:46:14]

Deek:

which results in nothing but a slowdown, since the people you're submitting to are useless.

[18:46:35]

XLV:

daedalus_, no, they should accept only detailed patents... eg in the cache bar patent, since they are patenting a UI, they should have precise location of icons, so the patent wouldnt be enforced if icons' position change

[18:46:49]

Aval0n:

anyone in here used a hauppage media mvp for a frontend before?

[18:46:52]

Deek:

By definition, if they aren't useless they're already too busy to do the job.

[18:47:17]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: I did a long time ago. sold it about a year ago :)

[18:47:21]

daedalus_:

XLV: you patent an idea, not an implementation

[18:47:28]

Aval0n:

did you like it man?

[18:47:38]

Deek:

ideas are not patentable.

[18:47:50]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: It worked well, but was too limited which is why I got rid of it

[18:47:57]

Aval0n:

hmm

[18:47:58]

XLV:

daedalus_, exactly, if detailed info on patent was required, noone would be able to patent an idea

[18:48:03]

Aval0n:

what was the bigs things that you could not do?

[18:48:17]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: play anything but mpeg2 recordings :)

[18:48:29]

Aval0n:

ahh so you wanted HD

[18:48:36]

GreyFoxx:

so transcoded recordings, or anything I encoded failed

[18:48:37]

GreyFoxx:

no

[18:48:40]

Aval0n:

this is just for my son and daughters room to watch dora and mickey mouse

[18:48:41]

daedalus_:

Deek: in the sense that you can't patent the holding of an idea. But, you don't patent a particular implementation of an object. You patent objects that do a particular job.

[18:48:49]

GreyFoxx:

the mvp plays mpeg1/2 only in hardware

[18:48:57]

Aval0n:

ahh ok

[18:49:00]

GreyFoxx:

so no mpeg4/divx/xvid/etc

[18:49:12]

GreyFoxx:

but for just watching SDTV mpeg2 recordings it's fine

[18:49:17]

Aval0n:

I heard the new version of it that's also wireless supports divx etc...

[18:49:18]

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[18:49:18]

daedalus_:

Deek: So, in a sense, you can say that you patent a solution method.

[18:49:33]

Deek:

daedalus_: which may be an invention.

[18:50:37]

Aval0n:

GreyFoxx: do you know of a better cheap and small solution for a FE?

[18:50:44]

Aval0n:

I'm not set on a mvp

[18:50:45]

XLV:

every step of that solution method needs to be explained in details.. so unless you have covered every option of performing each step of this solution method, that patent wouldnt stand

[18:50:52]

Deek:

It is certainly possible to invent a new way of performing an action (which is not necessarily a solution to a problem).

[18:50:54]

daedalus_:

Deek: true, you may implement the method as a proof of concept to yourself, but no implementations are required to file a patent (look up anti-grav).

[18:51:02]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: not really no

[18:51:13]

daedalus_:

XLV: you've just described our patent system.

[18:51:16]

GreyFoxx:

the msntv2's are nifty but can require a lot of setup work

[18:51:33]

Deek:

XLV: That's the way things already are.

[18:51:35]

daedalus_:

Deek: Oh, but it is. Your solution has a new step, new nuance, new something.

[18:51:55]

Aval0n:

what about an xbox running linux grefoxx?

[18:51:58]

Deek:

daedalus_: that doesn't mean it has to solve a problem.

[18:51:59]

Aval0n:

greyfoxx* sorry

[18:52:00]

iamlindoro__:

The Popcornhours look pretty cool (If I were into uPnP devices)

[18:52:19]

daedalus_:

Deek: name something patented that didn't solve a problem.

[18:52:58]

XLV:

daedalus_, Deek thats not what i have seen in the cache bar patent i have read ( quickly, true ). more vague describing of "objects" i cant imagine

[18:53:09]

Deek:

Any patent with a number beginning with D

[18:53:35]

Deek:

XLV: Patent claims always start vague and get more detailed as they go.

[18:54:01]

Deek:

You always start out with the vaguest claims you can get away with.

[18:54:01]

daedalus_:

Deek: that has no meaning for me.

[18:54:09]

hnitsuj:

Dagmar: something else tivo patented – grid-based EPGs :P

[18:54:17]

Deek:

daedalus_: Design patents.

[18:54:36]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: personally I've never used it on an xbox

[18:54:50]

Aval0n:

ahh

[18:55:03]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: xbox running linux is s l o w

[18:55:18]

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[18:55:33]

hnitsuj:

32MB ram.. mythfrontend creaks

[18:56:02]

daedalus_:

Deek: actually, you could argue that it's solvinga product recognition problem.

[18:56:05]

Deek:

XLV: Patent holders CLAIM to control all devices that perform the function laid out in claim 1 — but the top claims tend to be ruled invalid.

[18:56:08]

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[18:56:25]

Deek:

daedalus_: I'm just saying that solving problems has nothing to do with the patent system.

[18:56:34]

Deek:

daedalus_: It's simply not a requirement.

[18:56:53]

Deek:

daedalus_: performing a function is.

[18:57:12]

Aval0n:

you can make something more efficient without solving a problem too :)

[18:57:12]

Deek:

That function MAY solve a problem, but it doesn't have to.

[18:58:49]

Deek:

That's why novel business practices can be patentable, even though ideas can't be.

[18:58:52]

daedalus_:

Deek: You still have yet to come up with an example of something that doesn't solve a problem.

[18:59:22]

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[18:59:32]

Deek:

Key-Value Coding.

[18:59:40]

Deek:

XOR

[18:59:42]

Deek:

:)

[18:59:50]

daedalus_:

Deek: namely because necessity is the mother of invention. If it doesn't solve a problem of some sort, then it's not patentable.

[19:00:07]

daedalus_:

Wait, are you serious? You don't see what problem these two things solve?

[19:00:31]

Deek:

In many cases, necessity is not the mother of invention.

[19:00:44]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: http://www.t-online.de/international/pressebi . . . 0_remote.jpg makes more of a frontend than an xbox does, with the added bonus it's completely silent

[19:00:56]

daedalus_:

Namely: A way to map keys to values, and parity checking leading to redundancy/checksum?

[19:01:10]

Deek:

daedalus_: That's not what KVC is.

[19:02:13]

daedalus_:

Deek: yes, yes it is...

[19:02:21]

daedalus_:

You retrieve a value based on a key

[19:03:10]

Deek:

As patented by Next Software, Key-Value Coding is a mechanism for attaching general information to an object.

[19:03:11]

Aval0n:

hnitsuj ty

[19:03:33]

Aval0n:

it's a remote?

[19:03:36]

Deek:

This was not an invention.

[19:03:39]

daedalus_:

Deek: sure, "accessing data indirectly using keys instead of accessor methods"

[19:03:53]

Deek:

Specifically, they didn't invent it. :)

[19:04:00]

daedalus_:

Deek: so a mapping from key to value, based on object. (sorry for being incomplete_

[19:04:01]

XLV:

Aval0n, no, a whole stb that embedded linux can be installed, and it has 128MB ram

[19:04:16]

XLV:

similar to MSTV stb iirc

[19:04:22]

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[19:04:33]

XLV:

the t-online one is more easy to find in eu

[19:04:39]

daedalus_:

Deek: they attached "based on object" to the idea of the map.

[19:04:59]

Deek:

daedalus_: they didn't invent that either.

[19:05:03]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: no it's a celery 733 in a STB form factor – has 128MB ram

[19:05:14]

daedalus_:

Deek: they don't have to invent it!

[19:05:36]

Deek:

Actually, they did have to.

[19:05:41]

daedalus_:

Deek: And I'm not arguing the patent is valid

[19:06:01]

daedalus_:

Deek: nope. You just have to get to the patent office before someone else does, and before the idea is published.

[19:06:02]

Deek:

In order to patent something, you have to be the inventor.

[19:06:06]

daedalus_:

Nope

[19:06:07]

daedalus_:

Wrong

[19:06:32]

Deek:

If you weren't the inventor, it can simply be invalidated.

[19:06:39]

iamlindoro__:

Mmmmmm, this is what I live for-- two hour patent discussions. I'm semi-aroused right now.

[19:06:52]

directhex:

iamlindoro__, hawt!

[19:07:34]

daedalus_:

Not if the inventor doesn't have irrefutable proof. That is, a witnessed, signed, dated document describing the invention, etc, which irrefutably pre-dates the patent application.

[19:07:40]

Deek:

daedalus_: that's where the prior art search comes in — you have to show that no one has invented it before.

[19:08:26]

daedalus_:

Deek: prior art can only be searched for if it's been published. If I've been living in a hole for 40 years and all of a sudden come out and say "hey, I invented fiber optics way before you guys did" I can't invalidate your patent.

[19:08:56]

Deek:

daedalus_: You can if you can prove it. :)

[19:08:57]

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[19:09:27]

Deek:

iamlindoro__: btw, I'm adding 32KHz AC-3 resampling to your script — just seemed like the right place for it to go.

[19:09:38]

daedalus_:

_Published_. Which is why the patent office publishes all their applications, rejected or not 1 year after you apply. So the info gets out in the wild and people can stop chasing research that won't lead to a patent (among other reasons)

[19:09:39]

Aval0n:

hnitsuj would an xbox work just as well

[19:09:42]

Aval0n:

it's the same specs

[19:09:58]

daedalus_:

Deek: Nope. Go look it up. Ask a couple patent attorneys. I have. It doesn't hold water.

[19:10:09]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: xbox doesn't have 128MB ram though

[19:10:10]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: the problem with the xbox is the much lower amount of ram

[19:10:23]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: and the s100/msntv2 are silent

[19:10:26]

Aval0n:

they are both 128....

[19:10:26]

XLV:

Aval0n, xbox has 64MB ram, of which 32MB are used for gpu vram

[19:10:28]

GreyFoxx:

no moving parts etc

[19:10:31]

Aval0n:

oh

[19:10:36]

Aval0n:

I thought xbox was 128

[19:10:40]

hnitsuj:

nah

[19:10:42]

Aval0n:

isn't that box PAL though?

[19:10:57]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: its onboard tv encoder can do ntsc

[19:11:08]

Dagmar:

daedalus_: Well, published and "in use". Memestreams.net's mere existance blocks a whole PILE of potential patents on blog organizatio

[19:11:08]

blackest:

Avalon I used both media mvp and xbox mediamvp is pretty poor crashes regularly cant handle live tv and blocky green bits where its not managing the stream the xbox works with livetv plays fine takes ages to do anything new

[19:11:09]

Dagmar:

n

[19:11:40]

hnitsuj:

xbox is way too noisy to be viable as a frontend anyway

[19:11:47]

hnitsuj:

not to mention FUGLY

[19:11:48]

Aval0n:

hnitsuj: yeah but I wouldn't be using it's tv tuner

[19:11:56]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: doesn't have a tv tuner

[19:11:57]

Aval0n:

I'de just be streaming from my backend

[19:12:02]

Aval0n:

oh tvencoder

[19:12:04]

Aval0n:

sorry

[19:12:09]

hnitsuj:

I said it's a STB _form_ _factor_

[19:12:19]

hnitsuj:

they're rinky dink I tells ya

[19:12:31]

hnitsuj:

next best thing to a hacked MSNTV2

[19:12:40]

hnitsuj:

no good for da hud though

[19:12:42]

Aval0n:

but that's not as good?

[19:12:42]

blackest:

how much ?

[19:12:46]

GreyFoxx:

I have 4 msntv2 stbs and they work great, was just a little work getting them to work in the first place

[19:12:57]

Aval0n:

I take it this T box will not do HD correct?

[19:13:02]

GreyFoxx:

no

[19:13:06]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: an xbox won't do hd either

[19:13:10]

Aval0n:

correct

[19:13:11]

Aval0n:

ok right on

[19:13:13]

Aval0n:

thanx man

[19:13:22]

Aval0n:

about how much do they run?

[19:13:24]

hnitsuj:

blackest: on ebay less than 50 notes

[19:13:34]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: harder to get outside europe though

[19:13:41]

GreyFoxx:

I pain $an average of $9 for each of mine, but I got lucky deals on ebay

[19:13:44]

Aval0n:

can you use the remote it comes wtih?

[19:14:25]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: yeah – the internal IR receiver is processed by a micro on what'd ordinarily be a PS2 keyboard input ;)

[19:14:53]

Aval0n:

awesome thanks a lot

[19:14:55]

hnitsuj:

xmodmap is all you need, no fiddling with lirc

[19:14:57]

GreyFoxx:

I didn't like the msntv2 remote, so I used learning IR remotes and trained it to the keyboard IR signals

[19:15:13]

Dagmar:

hahaha

[19:15:16]

Dagmar:

xmodmap!

[19:15:30]

hnitsuj:

somebody mirrored the codes somewhere – if not I still ahve em lying around

[19:15:35]

Dagmar:

Like that's anything other than incrementally better

[19:15:36]

blackest:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TracNet-100-Mobile-High . . . d=p1638.m122 this isnt it is it

[19:15:51]

hnitsuj:

Dagmar: it does the job – & since it doesn't have a real keyboard there's no harm

[19:15:58]

Dagmar:

I'll give you that

[19:16:01]

kjetil_ is now known as KjetilK

[19:16:11]

blackest:

price is stupid

[19:16:27]

Dagmar:

Try any buy anything on there for the "stupid" price

[19:16:37]

blackest:

Starting bidUS $1,849.99Â

[19:16:57]

Dagmar:

Someone was high

[19:17:04]

Dagmar:

...and I don't mean ordinally.

[19:17:20]

Dagmar:

I thought you were seeing a starting bid of like $30

[19:17:58]

cliche:

Is anyone able to offer advice on optimising h.264 viewing in mythtv? (BBC HD basically)

[19:18:12]

iamlindoro__:

directhex has advice on that

[19:18:12]

Dagmar:

cliche: buy moar cpu

[19:18:14]

directhex:

cliche, yes!

[19:18:16]

directhex:

MOAR MHZ!

[19:18:19]

iamlindoro__:

YES

[19:18:23]

blackest:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MSNTV-2-with-keyboard-r . . . d=p1638.m122 this is more reasonable to start with but its $45 postage

[19:18:28]

directhex:

gah, screw you Dagmar, that's my line :(

[19:18:40]

Dagmar:

There pretty much *isn't* a way to make that codec go faster by anything other than brute force at the present time

[19:18:49]

iamlindoro__:

+ .21 Playback Profiles CPU Setting + skiploopfilter

[19:18:59]

directhex:

+compile myth with threaded playback

[19:19:09]

Dagmar:

Whose threads tho?

[19:19:13]

Dagmar:

NPTL or linuxthreads?

[19:19:18]

cliche:

I'm having a go without at the moment :) – CoreDuo T2500 – it manages to play things fine in mplayer (120% CPU) – but in myth I have to drop to 0.9x and it's still using 140–150%

[19:19:37]

Dagmar:

I say go with NPTL just because it breaks all the people who will try to run it under VMs

[19:19:38]

iamlindoro__:

skiploopfilter FTW

[19:19:39]

directhex:

Dagmar, pthreads. honestly, who uses linuxthreads these days?

[19:20:03]

cliche:

It irks me that each CPU is still sat there 25% of the time scratching its arse

[19:20:07]

cliche:

Did the skiploopfilter patch make it into SVN?

[19:20:13]

Dagmar:

directhex: You'd be amazed at how many people will just blink owlishly at that without realizing it

[19:21:32]

directhex:

Dagmar, distros went ntpl-centic years ago. except for gentoo, where most people running it are too stupid to understand the implications either way, or don't realise such decisions need making (especially at libc time).

[19:21:50]

directhex:

Dagmar, anyway, i'm more of an openmp person myself, given my background. screw nptl!

[19:21:50]

hnitsuj:

cliche: AFAIK it did but there's no UI element for it yet, so it's a manual db jobby

[19:21:54]

Dagmar:

Oh wow. Forget that

[19:22:07]

Dagmar:

directhex: Holy crap... check dis out. Robin Williams playing with Spore http://youtube.com/watch?v=V5TXEUiR1Xk

[19:22:14]

Dagmar:

I don't know which is more astonishing

[19:22:50]

cliche:

Thanks – I'll give it a try

[19:24:01]

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[19:29:17]

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[19:31:54]

Dagmar:

Looks like everyone darted off to check out the video. Heh

[19:32:09]

Dagmar:

I'm half expecting Duke Nuke'Em Forever to beat Spore to market at this rate tho

[19:32:18]

iamlindoro__:

I didn't, but I think you nonetheless for shutting up the patent discussion

[19:32:20]

iamlindoro__:

er thank

[19:32:46]

Dagmar:

Spore will be a hell of a game for playing drunk I suspect

[19:32:57]

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[19:33:46]

venkelos:

i watched an entire episode of discovery channel theater in hd pausing and fast forwarding through comercials last night

[19:33:49]

venkelos:

woot

[19:34:26]

Aval0n:

would this do HD?

[19:34:27]

Aval0n:

http://www.everex.com/products/gpc_mini/gpc_mini.htm

[19:34:37]

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[19:35:31]

iamlindoro__:

Aval0n, Mpeg-2 HD without too much trouble... authentic bitrate h.264 would be problematic

[19:35:57]

iamlindoro__:

But low-to-mid bitrate h.264 should be okay too

[19:36:07]

Aval0n:

hmm

[19:36:11]

Aval0n:

that's a nice little box

[19:36:15]

Aval0n:

pretty expensive though

[19:37:22]

iamlindoro__:

And hopefully you only want stereo audio out

[19:40:20]

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[19:52:46]

GlemSom:

Anyone here having expirence with on-screen-keyboards? I've been looking a little at GOK... But I can't quite make it work... Any non-gnome on-screen-keyboards out there?

[19:53:57]

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[20:01:26]

AngryElf:

myth isn't detecting a dvd being inserted and automatically playing it, I've got that option checked in setup

[20:01:34]

AngryElf:

does anyone know how to fix this or know where the docs are on this?

[20:03:04]

jarle:

To help debug a backend that crashes on a regular basis, I want monit to write a note to the backend log each time it has to restart the backend, anybody has an example monit.rc for this?

[20:04:53]

hnitsuj:

the backend log should indicate it has restarted

[20:05:21]

jarle:

hnitsuj: what is the string to look for?

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[20:10:57]

Deek:

err, can 0.21 play AAC?

[20:11:52]

hnitsuj:

jarle: not sure, but pretty certain it says it's started up

[20:14:49]

jarle:

hnitsuj: Actually I have the backend log scrolling over my desktop all the time and I can't remember ever seeing it say anything about starting up, even when I restart the backend...

[20:15:20]

directhex:

Deek, if you compile against libfaad2, sure

[20:16:39]

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[20:23:39]

jackson:

jarle, are you using an initscript to start your backend?

[20:24:02]

hnitsuj:

jarle: ah maybe it's only when it's woken up by a user. my bad

[20:26:01]

jackson:

jarle, you could use a little watchdog script that looks to see if mythbackend is running, if it's not, have it create an entry in a log file then have ti respawn mythbackend.

[20:26:29]

jackson:

jarle, I can show you what I use if you are interested.

[20:28:06]

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[20:31:02]

hnitsuj:

heheh back rocking on the mobile phone again with my old mono, monophonic 3 line display model :)

[20:31:35]

iamlindoro__:

*Grumble* Just got talked into some Comcast DVR monstrosity since they are out of Firewire equipped non-DVR boxes

[20:31:54]

iamlindoro__:

Jokes on them, I'll never use their stupid DVR

[20:32:05]

iamlindoro__:

Wait, jokes on me, i'll be paying for it. Damn.

[20:32:15]

hnitsuj:

so long as it doesn't cost you extra, go for it

[20:32:47]

iamlindoro__:

Heh, I think it's a difference of $2 a month... I'll live with it until they get more of the non-DVRs in stock

[20:33:14]

hnitsuj:

wtf is that bloody locksmith doing? sounds like he's demolishing the front porch

[20:33:17]

iamlindoro__:

I'd been paying for a non-firewire box without using it for months, so I finally got off my ass and swapped it out for a second firewire-equipped box

[20:33:56]

hnitsuj:

last time I ever use the 'emergency insurance provided locksmith' I can tell you

[20:34:01]

iamlindoro__:

This'll make for an even 10 Encoders of stuff I can't stand to watch ;)

[20:35:38]

hnitsuj:

took me half an hour to fit a mortice lock to a door last weekend, and my chisel was blunt

[20:36:09]

Dibblah:

Well, that'll be why it took half an hour...

[20:36:18]

hnitsuj:

precisely

[20:36:43]

Dibblah:

I had to call out an emergency locksmith twice.

[20:36:52]

Dibblah:

Came back from a trip to Singapore.

[20:36:53]

hnitsuj:

this guy's been on for nearly an hour & hasn't stopped banging & chipping away

[20:37:07]

directhex:

hnitsuj, he's charging your insurers an hourly rate

[20:37:08]

hnitsuj:

I'll go & see shortly – half expect there to be no wood left

[20:37:22]

Dibblah:

Flight got in – Got to car and realised that I'd left my keys in the hotel room.

[20:37:27]

Dibblah:

In singapore.

[20:37:28]

hnitsuj:

woops!

[20:38:04]

Dibblah:

May I just say "yay for coded locks" – And anyone that thinks they're secure is fooling themselves.

[20:38:12]

hnitsuj:

I hear there are insurance approved keyholder services you can use to stop that kind of thing happens

[20:38:44]

Dibblah:

Of course, I then had to call another locksmith when I got home, since I had no spare keys scattered.

[20:38:46]

hnitsuj:

Dibblah: oh I know. It's really just degrees of difficulty & how willing somebody is to make a noise

[20:39:09]

Dibblah:

... And then I find out that the front door has a lock to Euro standards.

[20:39:22]

Dibblah:

The guy broke 4 drill bits.

[20:39:24]

hnitsuj:

I don't need tellin nuffink abaaht securiddy after last week man

[20:39:26]

directhex:

damn yurpeans

[20:40:17]

Dibblah:

I'm convinced that in planning, it was specified as a drug dealer's housing estate.

[20:40:20]

hnitsuj:

we found out yesterday our BS standard back door 5-lever lock can be worked with the old front door key. just aswell it can't be unlocked from outside or we'd be changing that an all

[20:40:34]

Dibblah:

The doors have a metal layer in the middle.

[20:40:46]

hnitsuj:

kinda makes me think the BS means less 'british standard'

[20:40:57]

Dibblah:

The hinges have ram protectors on them.

[20:41:01]

hnitsuj:

jesus

[20:41:14]

Dibblah:

It's the same on *all* the houses on the street.

[20:41:25]

iamlindoro__:

Ah, Escobar Estates ;)

[20:41:25]

Dibblah:

It's quite a high-class area, too.

[20:42:02]

hnitsuj:

we've got about the min required for insurance purposes – no frickin point going overboard. if they're gonna come in they're gonna come in

[20:42:04]

Dibblah:

Apart from the pot farm that was busted a couple of streets down, of course.

[20:43:40]

hnitsuj:

might make you wonder how the area got so affluent then ;)

[20:44:48]

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[20:45:02]

hnitsuj:

dog was taking a leak on his walk earlier today & I happened to notice the single biggest flat panel TV I've ever seen taking up almost the whole of the 8 foot bay window area. I pity them come repo time :P

[20:45:55]

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[20:47:32]

Dibblah:

I don't understand people that put TVs in windows.

[20:47:56]

hnitsuj:

best place for mine

[20:48:13]

hnitsuj:

suits the shape of the room best

[20:48:42]

hnitsuj:

corner TVs are .. hmm best not use _that_ word... silly.. yeah silly is better

[20:49:22]

Dibblah:

Mine is on the wall.

[20:49:30]

Dibblah:

Well, actually, mine *is* the wall.

[20:49:40]

hnitsuj:

that's the only reason though. not ideal but WAY better than any corner

[20:50:06]

hnitsuj:

as for wall mounting – far from ideal too without moving the fireplace

[20:50:13]

hnitsuj:

unless we get 6 foot high chairs

[20:50:42]

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[20:50:52]

hnitsuj:

every house around here has about 5 foot high mantels – some idiots put their panels above that. their poor necks!

[20:50:54]

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[20:51:07]

** hnitsuj hands LabMonkey a more reliable network cable **

[20:52:04]

hnitsuj:

anyway my arrangement suits me, since I only tend to watch telly when the curtains are shut :P

[20:52:43]

hnitsuj:

oo the banging & drilling seems to have abated

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[21:00:21]

hnitsuj:

I've come to the conclusion I'm in the wrong trade

[21:01:04]

hnitsuj:

spin a 15 minute job out to 1 hour 45, make a pig's arse of it, then come back & spend another hour 45, charge fecknows what...

[21:02:35]

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[21:04:34]

Dibblah:

hnitsuj: You're not going to be a fan of http://pendor.org/shared/wall.jpg

[21:04:37]

Dibblah:

then...

[21:05:12]

Dibblah:

And yes, I'm quite well aware it's squint, thanks.

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[21:13:59]

Dibblah:

Meh. Suspend to RAM... Didn't.

[21:14:46]

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[21:27:28]

code-rr:

is there a reason why myth starts records like 1 minute late

[21:28:19]

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[21:29:57]

iamlindoro__:

It's a feature to make sure you don't have to watch the credits. Nice, huh?

[21:30:15]

iamlindoro__:

Or the part that goes, "Previously on real houswives of the OC..."

[21:31:10]

code-rr:

iamlindoro: umm dont think so.... cause it records the the begining at the tail end of the previouse one :-p

[21:31:28]

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[21:31:28]

iamlindoro__:

Personally, I'd be looking at my backend log and seeing what time *myth* thinks it is when it starts recording

[21:31:33]

code-rr:

like if there are 2 showes recording back to back on the same channel.. first show has the beggingin of the second one.

[21:31:36]

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[21:31:39]

code-rr:

iamlindoro: i use ntp to syn times

[21:32:04]

code-rr:

sync

[21:32:26]

Aval0n:

anyone have any tips for a cheap HD frontend?

[21:32:34]

iamlindoro__:

code-rr, So what time does the timestamp in the backend log say when it starts the recording??

[21:32:41]

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[21:33:02]

code-rr:

ok this is wierd... now the recoring randomly skips back to the begging

[21:33:04]

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[21:33:13]

code-rr:

while playing

[21:33:16]

** iamlindoro__ gives up on hoping for an answer **

[21:33:18]

Aval0n:

I hate it when they beg

[21:33:26]

** iamlindoro__ goes to do something interesting instead **

[21:33:27]

code-rr:

iamlindoro: ill cehck in a minute ...

[21:33:36]

code-rr:

iamlindoro: ill check thanx..

[21:33:57]

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[21:34:26]

hnitsuj:

Dibblah: if I were you I'd get a man in about that slanty floor

[21:34:40]

Dibblah:

Heh.

[21:34:59]

hnitsuj:

women! fecking candle fetish

[21:35:17]

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[21:35:30]

Dibblah:

Indeed.

[21:35:43]

Dibblah:

Any flat surface.

[21:35:47]

hnitsuj:

haha russian dolls aswell. only ours are on telly top

[21:36:01]

hnitsuj:

I fought the clutter for as long as I could

[21:36:18]

Dibblah:

... Stupid, really. You can't light them.

[21:36:33]

Dibblah:

Because then they're *really bright* just beside the screen.

[21:36:41]

hnitsuj:

Dibblah: do you know about the GB English language setting? ;)

[21:36:49]

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[21:37:05]

Dibblah:

Really, I don't care too much :)

[21:37:24]

Dibblah:

Also, I think that's the classic menu layout.

[21:37:29]

hnitsuj:

anyway the screen's a good size but I'd be tempted to lower it a little to save the neck

[21:37:37]

hnitsuj:

Dibblah: nah it's the default

[21:37:45]

hnitsuj:

classic needs to be wiped out

[21:37:58]

Dibblah:

It was lower, but I moved it up – Easier for wii-ing.

[21:38:05]

hnitsuj:

ahh

[21:38:26]

Dagmar:

Is that old RKO radio tower image still copyrighted, do you think?

[21:38:28]

Dagmar:

It's rather iconic

[21:38:34]

hnitsuj:

ikea tv stand. we got one of them too. it's in the attic now since SWMBO doesn't like it

[21:39:01]

Dibblah:

Here, it got replaced.

[21:39:32]

Dibblah:

For a day, until the GF decided that the replacement wasn't worth the money she spent on it.

[21:39:36]

hnitsuj:

better than zillions of other mythtv setup pics I've seen though. those in the mythtvtalk.com gallery are.. "still living with mom & dad"

[21:39:44]

Aval0n:

hey justin do you use one of those boxes that you showed me earlier?

[21:39:56]

Aval0n:

the t s100

[21:40:01]

Dibblah:

Latest idea is to go round the antique shops, looking for a TV stand.

[21:40:02]

Aval0n:

or have you ever I mean

[21:40:06]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: I have done. didn't keep up the work on it

[21:40:20]

Aval0n:

hmm was it easy to setup

[21:40:20]

Dibblah:

... Because... Well, you know, they had TVs in the '20s.

[21:40:23]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: there's a forum where you can download a slack image & mythtv stuff

[21:40:31]

Aval0n:

ahh

[21:40:35]

Aval0n:

I can't even find one here locally

[21:40:42]

Aval0n:

ebay has nothing

[21:40:42]

Aval0n:

heh

[21:40:47]

Aval0n:

do you know the forum?

[21:40:57]

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[21:40:57]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: you need a USB keyboard and a VGA cable for it. the VGA cable is pretty easy to make

[21:41:07]

hnitsuj:

zenega-user.de IIRC

[21:41:12]

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[21:41:15]

Dibblah:

The USB keyboard... Not so easy to make.

[21:41:21]

Dagmar:

heh

[21:41:22]

hnitsuj:

rofl

[21:41:32]

Aval0n:

ok cool

[21:41:44]

hnitsuj:

best to get a 419'er to make the USB keyboard for you

[21:41:57]

Dagmar:

A nigerian?

[21:42:01]

Dibblah:

And the picture does look red.

[21:42:20]

Aval0n:

if I want to input composite to the tv

[21:42:23]

Dibblah:

That's because of the 'feature wall' behind the camera.

[21:42:29]

Aval0n:

it doesn't have an rca output for it?

[21:42:33]

Aval0n:

it's gotta be vga?

[21:42:39]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: no but SCART connectors are easy to come by

[21:42:46]

hnitsuj:

oops – in Europe they are!

[21:42:48]

hnitsuj:

hahaha

[21:42:53]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: VGA for the BIOS settings

[21:42:58]

Dibblah:

Personally, I'm a fan of Magnolia. You can't go wrong with Magnolia.

[21:43:05]

Aval0n:

damn forum is all in german

[21:43:20]

hnitsuj:

Aval0n: there's some english there

[21:43:21]

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[21:43:23]

Aval0n:

lol

[21:43:45]

hnitsuj:

basically you need to esc into the bios, change the boot settings to stop it going into windows CE....

[21:44:14]

hnitsuj:

it's a crazy bios though. change storage devices & it messes things up a bit

[21:46:34]

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[21:49:02]

hnitsuj:

only at boot time- you just need to remember :)

[21:50:00]

hnitsuj:

it has 2x USB (2.0 IIRC), LAN, 2x SCART, optical digital audio, analogue audio, svideo. tv out won't work until the driver initialises it, only downside

[21:50:32]

hnitsuj:

oh it'll output component over the SCART socket too with the right X fiddling

[21:51:11]

hnitsuj:

wonder if the hackers ever made a standalone util to mess with the tv encoder registers so the closed source IEGD doesn't need to be used...

[21:51:50]

hnitsuj:

then again it's not outside my abilities to do that anymore... if I could be arsed

[21:51:51]

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[22:03:12]

hnitsuj:

anywaz – time to go finish watching ashes to ashes

[22:04:27]

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[22:11:05]

Aval0n:

anyone know of a cheap enclosure that would do raid5 and have network support?

[22:11:16]

Aval0n:

I can add the drives.

[22:11:53]

psymin:

Aval0n: are you referring to a mobo/case combo or an external drive enclosure?

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[22:13:52]

Aval0n:

external enclosure

[22:20:27]

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[22:20:44]

Aval0n:

it ends there then eh? lol

[22:22:08]

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[22:25:59]

Deek:

t'would be nice if configure gave out a codec rundown.

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[22:45:50]

venkelos:

i want to siesta

[22:46:40]

venkelos:

what does it mean for an enclosure to have raid5 and network support?

[22:46:58]

venkelos:

enclosure is what you screw the thing that has raid5 and network support into

[22:48:45]

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[22:49:58]

directhex:

how strange. mythweb is being Odd

[22:50:12]

venkelos:

strange indeed

[22:50:32]

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[22:51:23]

iamlindoro_:

venkelos: presumably what he's asking for is an empty NAS

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[22:52:16]

venkelos:

oh

[22:52:59]

Deek:

aha, you have to --enable faad directly

[22:53:20]

Deek:

is there anything else like that? :)

[22:56:38]

directhex:

a few

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[22:56:55]

directhex:

tried ./configure --help ?

[22:57:39]

Deek:

yeah, said nothing about it.

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[23:04:31]

darkwizzard:

hey all

[23:05:09]

fryfrog:

Aval0n: I don't think there are any cheap ones, but I got my parents an N2100 for like $300. It is only 2 drive though, so raid0 or raid1 only.

[23:05:17]

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[23:05:26]

darkwizzard:

i try to update my mythtv to svn 16408

[23:05:40]

fryfrog:

Deek: i think if you view/edit configure you can see a *ton* of hidden --enable / --disable options.

[23:05:41]

darkwizzard:

says database update failed

[23:05:51]

fryfrog:

darkwizzard: 0.21-fixes or trunk?

[23:05:57]

darkwizzard:

trunk

[23:06:24]

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[23:06:56]

Deek:

fryfrog: yeah

[23:07:18]

darkwizzard:

2008-03–06 18:01:53.210 Database Schema upgrade FAILED, unlocking.

[23:07:34]

fryfrog:

maybe turn logging way up and see why?

[23:08:00]

darkwizzard:

well how

[23:08:13]

darkwizzard:

i should never updated it

[23:12:54]

** orthoevra just updated to .21 svn from atrpms bleeding and it all worked but theme was "out of alignment" in places **

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[23:19:39]

fryfrog:

darkwizzard: you might also consider switching to 0.21-fixes branch instead of trunk, if things don't go well

[23:19:47]

fryfrog:

or if you old db is old enough to goto it?

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[23:20:00]

fryfrog:

but turning logging up is adding "-v all" to your backend startup

[23:20:10]

fryfrog:

your distro or init.d script would be a good place to look

[23:21:23]

darkwizzard:

this first time it ever failed

[23:21:29]

darkwizzard:

to do database

[23:24:18]

nettow0822:

I reloaded gusty and mythtv....when importing the channels.conf file....mythtv does see all the channels...

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nettow0822:

the import worked last time and mythtv could see all the channels....

[23:25:16]

nettow0822:

I used xine to test the channels.conf file....and it saw all the channels....any ideas?

[23:25:49]

nettow0822:

mythtv doesn't see all the channels...sorry

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Deek:

okaaaay...still can't play AAC, despite enabling it.

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