Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 00:03 UTC

[00:03:45]

Miranda_:

bah.

[00:04:33]

Miranda_:

New setup, followed the gentoo HOWTO, when attmpting to watch Live TV, I get "Mythtv is already using all available inputs blah blah blah"

[00:05:31]

Miranda_:

the card detected fine in mythtv-setup, but the "Info center > Tuner Status" says "Tuner 1 is unavailable"

[00:09:54]

Miranda_:

anyone have any suggestions?

[00:11:37]

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[00:19:01]

kdubya:

Miranda_, did you add channels to the tuner?

[00:19:22]

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[00:23:09]

iamlindoro_:

he refuses to answer your question on the grounds that it may incriminate him.

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[00:29:06]

Miranda_:

sorry, wife agro, had to run to the store

[00:29:17]

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[00:29:41]

Miranda_:

kdubya, yes, I added channels... jsut for shiggles though, how can I verify it for you?

[00:30:02]

kdubya:

in mythtv-setup

[00:30:08]

Miranda_:

will I need to re-run mythtv-setup?

[00:30:10]

Miranda_:

ok

[00:30:12]

Miranda_:

sec

[00:31:26]

kdubya:

in input connections

[00:31:34]

kdubya:

check the tuner you are trying to use

[00:31:44]

kdubya:

it should have a video source

[00:31:46]

Miranda_:

okay, here's what I see

[00:32:05]

Miranda_:

[ MPEG: /dev/v4l/video0 ] (Tuner 1) -> analogcable

[00:32:12]

Miranda_:

analogcable is my channel list

[00:32:14]

kdubya:

yeah looks right

[00:32:23]

kdubya:

and when you go to channel editor

[00:32:34]

kdubya:

there are channels associated with analogcable?

[00:32:37]

Miranda_:

I see lots and lots of channels

[00:32:40]

kdubya:

ok

[00:32:49]

kdubya:

is this a dual analog/digital card?

[00:33:00]

Miranda_:

No, PVR-150

[00:33:04]

kdubya:

ok

[00:33:34]

kdubya:

my pvr is at /dev/video0

[00:33:44]

kdubya:

sometimes it moves on reboot though

[00:33:48]

Miranda_:

The older version though, with the single yellow composite input and the 1/8 phono jack

[00:34:09]

kdubya:

sometimes it shows up at /dev/video1 because i do not have udev rules set up

[00:34:09]

Miranda_:

/dev/video0 points to /dev/v4l/video0

[00:34:21]

kdubya:

and then i get that no tuner available nonsense

[00:34:41]

kdubya:

other then that i dont know

[00:34:46]

Miranda_:

heh.

[00:34:53]

kdubya:

where the hell is everyone

[00:34:57]

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[00:35:10]

Miranda_:

Yeah, on my machine, there is no device /dev/video1

[00:35:19]

Miranda_:

or /dev/v4l/video1 for that matter

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[00:36:52]

Miranda_:

OOH

[00:37:10]

Miranda_:

mabye the user mythtv doesn't have permissions to access /dev/v4l/video

[00:37:26]

Miranda_:

crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 0 Feb 4 10:37 video0

[00:38:00]

kdubya:

very possible

[00:38:10]

Miranda_:

do those permissions look correct?

[00:38:14]

Miranda_:

mythtv is in the video group

[00:38:39]

Aval0n:

will mythtv play a .img file?

[00:38:48]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: What's an IMG ?

[00:38:53]

GreyFoxx:

basically a renamed .iso ?

[00:39:01]

Aval0n:

that's what I was thinking

[00:39:02]

Aval0n:

but not sure

[00:39:10]

GreyFoxx:

try renaming it to ISO and find out :)

[00:39:13]

Miranda_:

img is generally used for dd dumps

[00:39:14]

Aval0n:

haha ok

[00:39:29]

Miranda_:

I only use .img for floppy disk images

[00:40:06]

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[00:40:21]

kdubya:

Miranda_, have you tested the tuner in tvtime?

[00:40:43]

Miranda_:

kdubya, I didn't know tvtime exists

[00:40:55]

Miranda_:

I'm new for video4linux

[00:40:58]

kdubya:

its just a tv watching app for linux

[00:41:25]

kdubya:

make sure the tuner works somewhere else before trying it with myth

[00:41:52]

squidly is now known as squidly-sick

[00:41:52]

Miranda_:

I need to emerge tvtime, give me a second

[00:43:34]

Miranda_:

kdubya, do I need to modify /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml, or can I just load it up and see if I get something?

[00:43:44]

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[00:44:24]

kdubya:

i think you can jsut load it up

[00:44:31]

kdubya:

havnt used it in a long ass time

[00:45:32]

kdubya:

probably need to kill the backend before you run tvtime so they are not fighting to tuners

[00:45:44]

Miranda_:

kk

[00:46:33]

Miranda_:

kdubya, I'm looking at a blue screen now

[00:46:41]

Miranda_:

How do I switch channels, etc?

[00:46:54]

kdubya:

up and down i think

[00:47:02]

Miranda_:

keyboard arrows?

[00:47:08]

Miranda_:

I havent set up my remote yet

[00:48:14]

kdubya:

yeah keyboard

[00:48:26]

mzb:

yes (and depending on your options, Enter to select)

[00:48:35]

mzb:

you might need to swap inputs (Y?)

[00:49:07]

Miranda_:

nothing, no response from the blue screen

[00:49:12]

kdubya:

so am i

[00:49:13]

kdubya:

heh

[00:49:15]

kdubya:

how do you use this mess

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[00:49:28]

mzb:

errr ... probably not reading that correctly, I thought you meant mythfrontend (LiveTV)

[00:49:41]

Miranda_:

I did tvtime-scanner, and I got an error

[00:50:16]

Miranda_:

/home/mythtv/.tvtime/stationlist.xml: No existing NTSC station list "Custom".

[00:50:28]

Miranda_:

videoinput: Card failed to allocate capture buffers: Invalid argument

[00:50:29]

kdubya:

you can try "cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg"

[00:50:41]

kdubya:

then view that mpeg in mplayer

[00:51:00]

kdubya:

even if its tuned to some channel you dont get you should at least see static and know the tuner works

[00:51:18]

Miranda_:

how long should I let it run?

[00:51:25]

kdubya:

like 10 seconds then ctrl c

[00:51:45]

Miranda_:

yep, I see static

[00:51:54]

kdubya:

ok

[00:52:04]

kdubya:

heh

[00:52:15]

kdubya:

man i just get the blue crap from tvtime too

[00:52:23]

kdubya:

oh i already said that

[00:54:09]

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[00:56:32]

Miranda_:

and I did the cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg thing as user 'mythtv', so I know it's not a permissions issue

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[00:59:30]

Miranda_:

I'm so lost

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[01:02:09]

lime4x4:

how can i correct overscan in mythtv?

[01:02:32]

Miranda_:

I belive there is an overscan option in xorg.conf

[01:03:39]

lime4x4:

i didn't c one

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[01:07:10]

Miranda_:

http://gentoo-wiki.com/TV-Out_with_GeForce#Adjusting

[01:07:39]

Miranda_:

apparently i't's only supported on geforce4 or newer cards

[01:08:59]

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[01:10:14]

lime4x4:

i don't have nothing like that in my xorg file

[01:11:46]

lime4x4:

i'm using the nvidia 169 drivers

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[01:13:58]

Miranda_:

You may need to add it.

[01:14:06]

Miranda_:

read the wiki page, and try it out

[01:14:15]

Miranda_:

Is there a way to show what groups a user belongs to?

[01:18:10]

iamlindoro_:

cat /etc/group

[01:18:39]

iamlindoro_:

lime4x4: All the options for xorg.conf aren't just sitting there in the file... you add them

[01:19:16]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, do you know mysql?

[01:19:31]

iamlindoro_:

I'm no guru, but I know *myth* SQL

[01:20:27]

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[01:20:28]

Miranda_:

okay.. when I try to view live tv on my only tuner, and have no jobs scheduled, I get the 'tuner in use' error.

[01:20:33]

cesman:

lime4x4: if you have an older card, you can use nvtv for overscan

[01:20:43]

stowaway:

hello. is there a plugin to burn movies to dvd direct from mythtv?

[01:20:48]

Miranda_:

here' s the mythbackend log for the error

[01:20:49]

Miranda_:

http://pastebin.org/18212

[01:20:52]

iamlindoro_:

Miranda_: Doesn't sound like a SQL issue to me, sounds like a setup issue

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[01:21:40]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, well, I went through the setup once with kdubya, unless we missed something?

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[01:22:17]

iamlindoro_:

Most likely related to the setup of your listings source and/or attaching it to the correct input... which input are you using?

[01:22:24]

iamlindoro_:

And what listings source?

[01:22:30]

Miranda_:

okay, just a sec

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[01:24:11]

Miranda_:

okay, my input is set to:

[01:24:27]

Miranda_:

/dev/v4l/video0

[01:24:36]

Miranda_:

and it's attached to 'analogcable'

[01:24:45]

iamlindoro_:

Ummmmmm not what I mean

[01:24:51]

iamlindoro_:

what *physical* input are you using

[01:25:10]

iamlindoro_:

What tuner card type

[01:25:13]

iamlindoro_:

and what is your listings source

[01:25:21]

Miranda_:

hauppage PVR-150

[01:25:22]

iamlindoro_:

What you named it doesn't do me any good

[01:25:27]

Miranda_:

schedulesdirect.org

[01:25:37]

iamlindoro_:

OK, first off, 150 set up as mpeg-2 encoder card type?

[01:25:40]

Miranda_:

sorry, I'm trying to keep up :)

[01:25:49]

Miranda_:

yes, set up as mpeg2

[01:25:56]

iamlindoro_:

What input on the card, numbnuts

[01:26:03]

Miranda_:

Tuner1

[01:26:04]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[01:26:11]

iamlindoro_:

PHYSICAL input

[01:26:20]

iamlindoro_:

Which connection

[01:26:22]

Miranda_:

Uh... coax?

[01:26:25]

iamlindoro_:

ok.

[01:26:31]

Miranda_:

DINGDINGDING

[01:26:36]

Miranda_:

I must have gotten one right :)

[01:26:47]

iamlindoro_:

Now then, presumably you've already run mythfilldatabase and have confirmed it worked properly?

[01:27:13]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, correct, verified with the 'channel editor' menu in mythtv-setup

[01:27:26]

iamlindoro_:

Now then, are we talking about cable or OTA?

[01:27:33]

Miranda_:

analog cable

[01:27:45]

iamlindoro_:

OK. Did you set the frequency table correctly?

[01:27:53]

iamlindoro_:

to US-cable?

[01:27:57]

Miranda_:

now *that* I am not sure of

[01:28:10]

Miranda_:

Other comcast users said 'us-cable-hrc' worked for them

[01:28:17]

Miranda_:

I can change it to us-cable

[01:28:31]

iamlindoro_:

us-cable is by FAR the more common

[01:28:46]

iamlindoro_:

and that's for a comcast user.

[01:29:15]

iamlindoro_:

What distro is this?

[01:29:18]

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[01:29:21]

Miranda_:

Anywhere else I need to change it after "video sources" ?

[01:29:25]

Miranda_:

I'm using Gentoo

[01:29:35]

iamlindoro_:

and Gentoo sticks all the video devices in /dev/v4l?

[01:29:49]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, Yes, Gentoo uses UDEV

[01:29:59]

Miranda_:

i verified

[01:30:01]

iamlindoro_:

lots of distros use udev and they don't go in /dev/v4l

[01:30:09]

Miranda_:

Oh, okay, I didn't realize

[01:30:10]

iamlindoro_:

anyway...

[01:30:18]

Miranda_:

I looked in /dev/v4l

[01:30:24]

iamlindoro_:

pastebin the output on ls -al /dev/v4l/*

[01:30:28]

iamlindoro_:

er output o

[01:30:29]

iamlindoro_:

f

[01:30:32]

Miranda_:

and /dev/video0 is a symlink to /dev/v4l/video0

[01:30:54]

stowaway:

can mythtv make an audio-cd from a list of mp3 files without exiting the mythtv?

[01:31:03]

cesman:

stowaway: MythArchive

[01:31:12]

Miranda_:

http://pastebin.org/18213

[01:31:14]

stowaway:

aha. will look up

[01:31:15]

stowaway:

thanks

[01:31:30]

iamlindoro_:

okay, who is your mythtv frontend user?

[01:31:41]

Miranda_:

user "mythtv"

[01:31:48]

cesman:

stowaway: I do believe MythMusic will allow you to burn a CD from a list of songs from your collection

[01:31:53]

iamlindoro_:

cat /etc/group |grep mythtv

[01:31:54]

iamlindoro_:

and pastebin

[01:31:56]

cesman:

however I've not used that feature

[01:32:27]

Miranda_:

http://pastebin.org/18214

[01:32:52]

Miranda_:

I don't know what the ! is in group 'video'

[01:32:56]

iamlindoro_:

ok, looks fine.

[01:33:05]

iamlindoro_:

go to mythtv-setup

[01:33:08]

Miranda_:

comment, I assume

[01:33:14]

iamlindoro_:

no

[01:33:27]

iamlindoro_:

Anyway, mythtv-setup

[01:33:37]

Miranda_:

okay, there

[01:33:41]

iamlindoro_:

Option 4

[01:33:59]

iamlindoro_:

And go to the one that says something like /dev/v4l/video0 (Tuner 1) -> analogcable

[01:34:10]

iamlindoro_:

Hit scan for channels

[01:34:12]

Miranda_:

[ MPEG: /dev/v4l/video0 ] (Tuner 1) -> analogcable

[01:34:43]

Miranda_:

Full scan?

[01:34:49]

iamlindoro_:

Choose Full Scan, us-cable, delete existing channels

[01:35:01]

iamlindoro_:

And let it scan

[01:35:01]

Miranda_:

Full scan is the last option I have

[01:35:06]

Miranda_:

err, no

[01:35:10]

Miranda_:

I'm an idiot

[01:35:26]

iamlindoro_:

Do you have multiple tuner cards in this system?

[01:35:31]

Miranda_:

no sir.

[01:35:34]

iamlindoro_:

ok

[01:35:44]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, is it scanning?

[01:35:44]

Miranda_:

I may need to hook the cable back up to the box

[01:35:52]

Miranda_:

sigh..

[01:35:55]

iamlindoro_:

?

[01:35:58]

lime4x4:

cesman i'm using a nvidia 7150 nvidia built in graphics card

[01:36:14]

Miranda_:

got others in the room trying to watch tv, let me hook the cable back up to the tuner card

[01:36:17]

Miranda_:

2 mins

[01:37:42]

Miranda_:

okay, let's scan again

[01:37:59]

Miranda_:

okay, now it's getting some results

[01:38:04]

iamlindoro_:

good.

[01:38:25]

Miranda_:

it did this before, mind you..

[01:38:28]

Miranda_:

scan complete

[01:38:35]

iamlindoro_:

Let it complete the scan, leave mythtv-setup, run mythfilldatabase, then restart the backend, then try to watch TV

[01:40:00]

Miranda_:

mythfilldatabase as user?

[01:40:16]

iamlindoro_:

anyone who has access to the database can run mythfilldatabase

[01:40:17]

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[01:40:50]

Miranda_:

ok

[01:41:02]

Miranda_:

done with mythfilldatabase

[01:41:32]

iamlindoro_:

That was quick.... You've set up a lineup at schedulesdirect, yes?

[01:41:40]

squidly:

does anyone konw how I can move a database from one host to another?

[01:41:57]

squidly:

i'm makeing a new backend server, and my old backend was my frontend

[01:42:11]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, yes, I have

[01:42:26]

iamlindoro_:

ok... start the backend and attempt to watch TV

[01:43:04]

Miranda_:

No workey.

[01:43:11]

Miranda_:

'using all available inputs blah blah"

[01:43:59]

iamlindoro_:

It sorta sounds like you have the card setup improperly in linux to me

[01:44:08]

iamlindoro_:

have you managed to watch Tv anywhere else in linux?

[01:44:16]

iamlindoro_:

Kaffeine, etc?

[01:44:24]

Miranda_:

I did a 'cat /dev/video0 > test.mpg'

[01:44:27]

Miranda_:

and I got static

[01:44:33]

iamlindoro_:

Doesn't necessarily mean anything

[01:44:38]

Miranda_:

mmm

[01:44:48]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, the only thing I tried to watch tv with is tvtime

[01:44:53]

Miranda_:

and I couldn't get the program to work

[01:44:58]

iamlindoro_:

tvtime doesn't work with ivtv cards

[01:45:04]

Miranda_:

ahh

[01:45:05]

iamlindoro_:

and pvr-150 is an ivtv card

[01:45:55]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, I am not able to spend any more time troubleshooting this... I would try to get TV working in Kaffeine, *then* you'll know whether it's a myth problem

[01:45:56]

Miranda_:

so what would I use to test video ?

[01:46:12]

Miranda_:

Kaffeine is a KDE app?

[01:46:19]

iamlindoro_:

Will run fine in GDM

[01:46:26]

Miranda_:

mmk

[01:46:45]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, good luck, I have to attend to home stuff

[01:46:59]

Miranda_:

kk

[01:47:02]

Miranda_:

thanks for the time

[01:47:12]

Miranda_:

wow, look at the dependancies

[01:47:14]

iamlindoro_:

I'd also look very closely at your listings source

[01:47:22]

iamlindoro_:

That mythfilldatabase ran far too fast

[01:47:37]

iamlindoro_:

And you would see this if the listings source was screwed up somehow

[01:47:42]

fedorared:

squidly: Move the MySQL database files over

[01:47:47]

iamlindoro_:

Mythfilldatabase should take a good few minutes to run

[01:47:51]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, it ran slow earlier, this is the second time in like 30 mins

[01:48:03]

iamlindoro_:

doesn't mean you shouldn't look at it

[01:48:07]

Miranda_:

kk

[01:48:33]

iamlindoro_:

That's the most common cause for something like this--- listings source incorrectly set up or improperly associated with the card, or the card itself is improperly set up in linux.

[01:49:14]

Miranda_:

grr, this ebuild says kaffeine requires KDE as a dependancy.

[01:49:18]

Miranda_:

bleh

[01:49:24]

iamlindoro_:

and, of course, presumably you are launching "mythfrontend" instead of "mythtv"

[01:49:37]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, yes, I'm launching mythfrontend

[01:50:19]

iamlindoro_:

k. Off I go, look at your listings source. with 90% certainty I can say it's there or how it's associated with your card.

[01:50:38]

Miranda_:

kk

[01:50:53]

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[01:50:54]

squidly:

fedorared: that is what I though. I did that.. on my new backend i'm runnign mythtv-setup and its not doing anything. it wont save anyof my settings

[01:51:08]

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[01:51:48]

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[01:51:49]

black_Nightmare_:

hey

[01:58:34]

fedorared:

squidly: Did the database transfer? Try a sql client.

[02:01:18]

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[02:05:22]

Aval0n:

.21 close to release?

[02:08:45]

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[02:08:55]

squidly:

fedorared: i'm seeing some stragne errors. I think thoes are causeing it

[02:09:15]

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[02:11:31]

squidly:

fedorared: it was a permissions issue

[02:13:25]

GreyFoxx:

Aval0n: Very close

[02:13:45]

Aval0n:

cool

[02:16:55]

JakeM-MB:

anyone in here have experience with a nvidia mx 420 card using tv out?

[02:22:56]

mzb:

yes

[02:26:37]

JakeM-MB:

ok, awesome

[02:26:50]

JakeM-MB:

would you mind sending me your xorg.conf file so that i can look at it?

[02:29:07]

JakeM-MB:

also, are you using it strictly for tv-out? or do you have a monitor hooked up also

[02:29:19]

squidly:

hmm.. ok I have it working but no sound :(

[02:29:43]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: your my only hope!! lol

[02:30:07]

mzb:

how so?

[02:30:18]

JakeM-MB:

lol didnt you say you had a mx 420?

[02:30:30]

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[02:30:47]

mzb:

yes

[02:31:07]

JakeM-MB:

are you using it strictly for tvout?

[02:31:13]

JakeM-MB:

or do you have a monitor on it too?

[02:31:27]

mzb:

bedtv:~# lspci | grep nV

[02:31:27]

mzb:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 MX 420] (rev a3)

[02:31:30]

mzb:

SVideo

[02:31:40]

mzb:

(only)

[02:32:06]

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[02:32:06]

JakeM-MB:

would you mind sending me your xorg.conf file, i would like to look at it

[02:32:27]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: and was there anything special you had to install/modify to get it to work with only svideo out?

[02:33:43]

JakeM-MB:

i can get mine to work if i set it as "Extend default screen" but it wont mirror or work only with svideo out

[02:34:43]

mzb:

JakeM-MB: http://openpaste.org/en/4975/

[02:35:31]

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[02:35:31]

JakeM-MB:

i appreciate it man, ive been looking for this for a while

[02:35:36]

mzb:

np

[02:35:46]

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[02:36:03]

JakeM-MB:

did you only modify xorg.conf or did you have to do anything else?

[02:36:05]

mzb:

note that config is for PAL

[02:36:07]

mzb:

err

[02:36:14]

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[02:36:17]

mzb:

don't think so .. on that machine

[02:36:28]

mzb:

bedtv is running gdm

[02:37:01]

mzb:

other machine (mx440) is different, and runs no WM, so I've got a few things in .xinitrc for "loungetv"

[02:37:19]

JakeM-MB:

k

[02:38:36]

mzb:

if you're running _only_ tv-out there are some tricks with different cards

[02:38:56]

mzb:

either way, the one I posted works on an mx420 pretty well

[02:39:05]

JakeM-MB:

awesome, im about to try it out

[02:39:15]

mzb:

machine is mounted under the floor (nether regions of the house)

[02:39:28]

mzb:

so I don't like resetting it much :) ... ie *must* work ;)

[02:39:33]

JakeM-MB:

lol

[02:42:33]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: sorry for asking a possibly n00b question but what does the first line "bedtv:~# egrep -v "^$|^[[:space:]]*#" /etc/X11/xorg.conf" mean? i have been going through the xorg man page all day so i understand the rest just not that part

[02:42:52]

fryfrog:

is that, anything that starts with a space or #?

[02:43:13]

mzb:

that's just a command that strips out any blank line, or any line that is commented

[02:43:18]

JakeM-MB:

oh

[02:43:19]

fryfrog:

the "-v" is invert, so it probably is...

[02:43:22]

fryfrog:

yeah, that :p

[02:43:31]

JakeM-MB:

ok, thanks

[02:44:08]

mzb:

see:

[02:44:10]

mzb:

$ man grep

[02:44:11]

mzb:

and

[02:44:15]

mzb:

$ man rexex

[02:44:18]

mzb:

s/regex

[02:46:23]

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[02:46:32]

sshirley:

hi all

[02:47:22]

sshirley:

can anyone tell me the difference between us-cable, us-cable-hrc, and us-cable-irc (for channel freq. table)?

[02:50:52]

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[02:52:06]

npurciful:

Question: if i do a apt-get build-dep mythtv, checkout the SVN do you think it will compile

[02:54:18]

mzb_d800:

you might be lucky :) ... at the very least you'll be 90% of the way there.

[02:54:35]

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[02:54:54]

mzb_d800:

but you might want to s/mythtv/mythfrontend and mythbackend

[02:55:07]

mzb_d800:

depending on your distro and source lists

[02:55:23]

npurciful:

okay now if i get it build and i use checkinstall to build simple deb do you think it will work on a computer with a idenical setup

[02:55:31]

Miranda_:

anyone have an lircd.conf for the hauppauge grey remote with the four colored buttons at the bottom?

[02:55:51]

mzb_d800:

identical is hard to verify

[02:56:54]

npurciful:

i building in a vbox

[02:58:24]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: im just wondering, what distro are you using?

[03:02:06]

npurciful:

i probably should build-dep front & back too, couldnt hurt

[03:02:29]

iamlindoro_:

Incrementally andHarmonically related carriers... neither are usually necessary, us-cable suffices for 95% of US cable cases

[03:03:18]

npurciful:

this probably isnot going to work and i am wasting time

[03:03:36]

iamlindoro_:

That's the spirit.

[03:03:50]

npurciful:

heh

[03:04:13]

iamlindoro_:

MCE for everyone! We're all doomed! Quit now before you waste calories!

[03:04:14]

sshirley:

There is a paragraph from the manual that I am having difficulty with: "If you are using a static channel listing, fetch channels from your listings source via \Fetch channels

[03:04:14]

sshirley:

from listings source". If you are using something that scans on the y via EIT or OTA HD, scan for

[03:04:14]

sshirley:

the initial channels by selecting \Scan for channels".". I am using cable (US) and Schedules Direct. Which channel thingy should I use?

[03:04:37]

iamlindoro_:

analog cable or digital?

[03:04:41]

npurciful:

on about 4 other times i have tried to build myth

[03:05:09]

sshirley:

analog

[03:05:18]

iamlindoro_:

via coax, s-video, component...?

[03:05:29]

sshirley:

listings source, i imagine

[03:05:47]

iamlindoro_:

^^^ answer above question

[03:05:50]

sshirley:

via coax (outputting to tv via s-video (until I get hdtv)

[03:06:19]

iamlindoro_:

In that case, yes, fetch them from the listigns source. And don't sweat it when they don't show up, they wll when you finish mythtv-setup and run mythfilldatabase.

[03:06:59]

iamlindoro_:

although in the case of analog via coaxial, both would work

[03:07:44]

sshirley:

thanks!

[03:07:57]

iamlindoro_:

np

[03:08:03]

sshirley:

speaking of hdtv, which card is the best bang for your buck?

[03:08:15]

sshirley:

capture card

[03:08:41]

iamlindoro_:

in the end, they're all basically the same... per-tuner the HDHomeRun is cheapest if you want dual tuner, and if not that, the Kworld 110 or 115 are cheap for single tuner...

[03:08:44]

iamlindoro_:

assuming US, of course

[03:08:55]

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[03:09:39]

sshirley:

dual is the way i want to go

[03:09:43]

npurciful:

i use a pchdtv5500 hdtv is good, analog is crap

[03:09:54]

sshirley:

yes, US

[03:10:14]

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[03:10:16]

iamlindoro_:

HD 5500 is a great card... and one should never waste a good ATSC card on analog

[03:10:26]

** JakeM-MB bows down to mzb **

[03:10:49]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: omfg it worked! you have solved about 8 hours worth of problems for me

[03:11:27]

mzb:

heh ... imagine how long it took *ME* ;)

[03:12:04]

JakeM-MB:

haha thanks so much again dude

[03:12:25]

npurciful:

yeah, but i didnt know how good my signal was here and i new i was getting good analog (a least until i got a bigscreen then i looked horrible)

[03:12:44]

sshirley:

now that i did my input connections and fetched the channel list, MUST i go through the channel editor? or is that something i can do later?

[03:12:48]

npurciful:

but the hd5500 is a good and plan to by another

[03:13:28]

iamlindoro_:

sshirley: No, you don't need to go to the channel editor

[03:13:46]

iamlindoro_:

you do need to make sure to run mythfilldatabase after you exit mythtv-setup, though.

[03:16:40]

sshirley:

although with the channel editor i can get rid of channels that i dont have, right? i dont get all the channels in my companys line up (i have basic cable for now)

[03:17:27]

iamlindoro_:

Yes. Do it later.

[03:18:00]

iamlindoro_:

because if it *doesn't* work and you end up spending 30 minutes deleting channels, you don't want to have to redo that work if you need to wipe out your lineup.

[03:18:19]

sshirley:

true

[03:18:46]

iamlindoro_:

besides, it's *far* easier to remove channels from mythweb

[03:19:14]

squidly:

is there a way I can use my server for transcodeing dvd's?

[03:20:01]

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[03:20:22]

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[03:20:27]

xris:

squidly: I think mythdvd can do that.. or that's been migrated into mythvideo for .21.. assuming you're outside of the US and can use decss legally. or have a non-css dvd

[03:21:28]

squidly:

xris: I think so to. I'm just trying to get ir working

[03:21:42]

squidly:

I would rather have it running on my server then on my desktop

[03:21:54]

Miranda_:

What does "TV: Attempting to change from None to None" mean?

[03:21:59]

Miranda_:

mythfrontend log

[03:22:04]

xris:

I played with it in mythvideo a few months ago. I don't really need it, though. my dvd player works fine.

[03:22:33]

iamlindoro_:

Miranda_: It means there's no capture card set up, probably

[03:22:48]

Miranda_:

hmm, grr.

[03:22:59]

sshirley:

this is gonna sound stupid, but what permissions are rwxrwsr-x? 776?

[03:23:03]

squidly:

xris: yea.. but I want to be able to stream them to everything on my network

[03:23:11]

squidly:

sshirley: iirc yes

[03:23:20]

sshirley:

iirc?

[03:23:35]

squidly:

if I recall correctly

[03:24:06]

squidly:

and no its not

[03:24:10]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, I went through mythtv-setup and doublechecked all of my sources settings, nothing looks odd or out of the ordinary.. I'm emerging Kaffeine as we speak.

[03:24:16]

squidly:

766 is -rwxrwxrw-

[03:24:36]

squidly:

[Shodan]: that is 1765

[03:24:40]

Miranda_:

766 is RWXRWRW

[03:24:51]

squidly:

Miranda_: yea oops

[03:24:52]

Miranda_:

rwxrw-rw- rather

[03:24:52]

iamlindoro_:

Miranda_: OK, well see how that goes, then... if you get TV outside of myth then we'll know it's a myth issue... but until you get TV elsewhere, it's useless trying to troubleshoot myth

[03:24:55]

squidly:

i'm sick I balme it on that

[03:25:05]

sshirley:

right. thats what i thought

[03:25:23]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, agreed. Couldnt' find anything that can play the pvr150 without a buttload of deps..

[03:25:28]

Miranda_:

two packages left

[03:25:29]

sshirley:

so rwxrwsr-x is 1765?

[03:26:29]

Miranda_:

sshirley, IIRC, the leading "1" implies a directory

[03:26:55]

Miranda_:

765 is rwxrw-r-- I belive

[03:27:04]

Miranda_:

don't quote me on that

[03:27:53]

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[03:28:02]

sshirley:

1765 is rwxrw-r-t

[03:28:10]

sshirley:

what the hell is t??

[03:28:38]

sshirley:

also, is the s important?

[03:30:11]

npurciful:

err, compiling takes so long

[03:30:13]

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[03:30:42]

sshirley:

got it: chmod 2775 somedir

[03:31:35]

Miranda_:

welp, mplayer will display /dev/video0, but I can't change channels, all I'm getting is static

[03:32:52]

mzb:

JakeM-MB: btw, there is more to do ... you probably want to enable XVMC for better playback of mpeg2

[03:33:14]

clever:

Miranda_: mplayer tv:// will handle the v4l interface properly

[03:33:18]

mzb:

eg:

[03:33:20]

mzb:

bedtv:~# cat /etc/X11/XvMCConfig

[03:33:20]

mzb:

/usr/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1

[03:33:34]

Miranda_:

mmm, now I'm getting somewhere

[03:33:40]

Miranda_:

it found my sources

[03:33:50]

Miranda_:

"Using input 'Tuner 1'"

[03:34:01]

Miranda_:

ioctl get mbuf failed: Invalid argument

[03:34:07]

Miranda_:

Munmap failed: Invalid argument

[03:34:22]

SerajewelKS:

is there a reason when i delete the last thing in the LiveTV group mythfrontend freezes for a minute or two

[03:34:30]

amrit|wrk is now known as amrit|afk

[03:34:59]

JakeM-MB:

mzb: thanks, ill check that out. im trying to get the HorizSync settings right on my tv right now, anyone have any tips?

[03:35:16]

JakeM-MB:

i read somewhere that running startx with verbose logging shows you

[03:35:49]

mzb_d800:

PAL or NTSC?

[03:36:07]

Miranda_:

mzb, if you're asking me, I'm running NTSC

[03:36:23]

JakeM-MB:

and if your asking me, i have NTSC as well

[03:36:49]

mzb_d800:

so just google for xorg.conf and NTSC (and possibly Sync)

[03:41:28]

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[03:43:52]

Miranda_:

hmm, for one, it apperars that I only have support for v4l in my make.conf, and the new ivtv driver uses v4l2

[03:45:14]

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[03:45:38]

npurciful:

whoa my case is running a little warm 135 degree F

[03:46:52]

califdreas:

hm. (135–32)/1.8=???

[03:46:55]

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[03:48:25]

clever:

`calc (135–32)/1.8

[03:48:25]

clever:

(135–32)/1.8 == 57.222222

[03:49:12]

califdreas:

that's not extremely hot. just above average I'd say.

[03:49:17]

npurciful:

ah it is 40C i was times by 2.5

[03:49:40]

npurciful:

that isnt right

[03:50:06]

npurciful:

screw it my case says 40

[03:50:42]

Miranda_:

40 K

[03:50:45]

Miranda_:

:]

[03:50:46]

califdreas:

my backend has 46C right now, being moderately under load.

[03:51:28]

npurciful:

what hardware drive numb tuners

[03:51:36]

npurciful:

numbers

[03:51:42]

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[03:52:00]

sshirley:

after installing mythbuntu, do i have to create the user mythtv myself?

[03:52:19]

califdreas:

most of the heat comes from the tv tuners. harddrives always run just below 40Â°C.

[03:52:24]

insta:

outside of mplayer+coreavc, are there any native multithreaded x264 decoders for linux?

[03:53:12]

iamlindoro:

the ffmpeg/mplayer h.264 decoder is multithreaded

[03:53:20]

npurciful:

i have 2 tuners and 3 hdd, my rig usual about runs 28c idle

[03:53:43]

npurciful:

but never been this high

[03:53:55]

npurciful:

34c under a load

[03:54:56]

npurciful:

myth has be compiling for like 30min

[03:55:07]

iamlindoro:

(the native one, libavcodec, that is)

[03:55:26]

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[03:55:28]

califdreas:

it's all well within specifications. If I wanted it cooler, I should probably clean the case more regularly :D

[03:56:07]

npurciful:

i clean my about every 6months

[03:56:40]

moegreen:

yo iamlindoro you still on?

[03:56:55]

iamlindoro:

moegreen: I'm in and out, just adding thoughts here and there

[03:57:01]

sshirley:

i'm not sure if this is a linux, mythbuntu, or strictly myth question, but can anyone guess as to why my box is not saving my video driver or network configuration?

[03:57:18]

clever:

sounds like a distro problem

[03:57:22]

moegreen:

I finally got my blaster and was wondering if you could help me configure?

[03:57:28]

Miranda_:

grr

[03:57:31]

califdreas:

does anyone use the internal player for x264 encoded videos?

[03:57:37]

Miranda_:

mplayer apparently doesn't like my card

[03:57:55]

iamlindoro:

moegreen: I can't sit down and troubleshoot anything extended right now, I'm kind of juggling somethings here

[03:57:59]

iamlindoro:

er some things

[03:58:07]

moegreen:

no worries, maybe some other time then.

[03:58:22]

iamlindoro:

yeah, that would be better

[03:58:35]

moegreen:

cool thx

[03:59:05]

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[03:59:13]

Miranda_:

mplayer error: http://pastebin.org/18229

[04:00:26]

iamlindoro:

kinda looks like it's setting to PAL

[04:00:27]

califdreas:

npurciful: takes me like 15 minutes when I use all three linux pc's here to compile just myth (w/o plugins).

[04:00:56]

Miranda_:

iamlindoro, yeah, I see that

[04:01:26]

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[04:01:28]

npurciful:

oh okay i was reading on the doc page and it said like 12 mins

[04:01:35]

iamlindoro:

look at v4l2-ctl and use it to check all the settings on your card

[04:02:16]

sshirley:

iamlindoro: who was that last msg to?

[04:02:19]

sshirley:

me?

[04:02:25]

iamlindoro:

nope

[04:04:10]

Miranda_:

meh, it even does it when set to NTSC

[04:06:53]

sshirley:

when myth (mythbuntu) boots up, i get a 'cannot to backend' error. i set both the backend and frontend to 127.0.0.1 (both same machine)

[04:07:11]

sshirley:

i did try to set a static ip for the machine on the network though

[04:10:15]

sshirley:

any ideas?

[04:12:59]

[Shodan]:

is this any good, or as good as it says ? http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

[04:13:27]

[Shodan]:

really analog component and hdmi (non-hdcp) inputs ? on a pci-e 1x for just 350$ ?

[04:16:46]

iamlindoro:

[Shodan]: No, no good. No linux drivers, can't handle HDCP, and doesn't do any usable compression... the Hauppauge device will be *far* better for our needs

[04:17:20]

iamlindoro:

We cover this about every two days in here.

[04:17:32]

JakeM-MB:

ok, i have searched and changed the settings and rebooted about 8 times but it doesnt get any better, i am using NTSC-M and my vrefresh is 60 so i think its my horizsync settings. my tv is a Philips 27" CRT(no fancy hdtv or lcd), anyone suggest what i set it to to get rid of the lines on the screen

[04:17:49]

sshirley:

I just noticed that in the mythbuntu control center, there is a standalone mythtv session started upon boot. it is set to my user (sshirley). should it be set to mythtv (or is it mythuser)?

[04:17:51]

[Shodan]:

so in the future, it'll be possible a least to watch and record dvi, plain hdmi and component video ?

[04:18:17]

iamlindoro:

Not with that device it won't.

[04:18:36]

[Shodan]:

not even on windows ?

[04:18:45]

iamlindoro:

The Hauppauge HD PVR will capture and compress Component HD in real time, though... coming Q1 08

[04:19:01]

sshirley:

any ideas on the user issue or the backend no connect issue?

[04:19:28]

iamlindoro:

and it'll have linux drivers on release

[04:19:34]

[Shodan]:

sweet, but what about dvi/hdmi ?

[04:20:16]

iamlindoro:

[Shodan]: No options for that under linux.

[04:20:57]

[Shodan]:

but the intensity pro card would under windows ? or not ?

[04:20:58]

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[04:21:13]

iamlindoro:

[Shodan]: How would I know? This is #mythtv-users.

[04:21:52]

[Shodan]:

thought you might, it's still general video stuff

[04:22:37]

iamlindoro:

Theoretically if you had DVI or HDMI content without HDCP, yes, it would work with that card under windows

[04:22:48]

iamlindoro:

But forget getting any such signal out of a cable box

[04:22:59]

lwizardl:

can someone help me with choosing hardware for my myth box

[04:23:08]

iamlindoro:

and even then, uncompressed you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of GB an hour

[04:23:08]

fryfrog:

iamlindoro: how are they doing realtime component -> ??? what compressoin?

[04:23:18]

iamlindoro:

fryfrog: AVC/h.264

[04:23:22]

fryfrog:

wow

[04:23:27]

fryfrog:

neat :)

[04:23:32]

iamlindoro:

definitely

[04:23:33]

[Shodan]:

what I'm really want to know is if in the future, as long as we can break hdcp will the "analog hole" still be open without at least a non-HDCP HDMI input for computer it's not

[04:23:36]

fryfrog:

any work being done on mythtv site to work with it?

[04:23:42]

sshirley:

how can i make sure the backend is running?

[04:23:51]

fryfrog:

sshirley: "pgrep -l mythbackend"

[04:24:01]

fryfrog:

also, watching the backend.log file could be useful

[04:24:31]

iamlindoro:

fryfrog: Well, there's a linux driver being written for it, and I've been told it will be ready on release... I expect it's just going to show up as a /dev/video device and should be operational *very* quickly

[04:25:00]

lwizardl:

iamlindoro, what you talking about ?

[04:25:30]

sshirley:

is that a small L?

[04:25:34]

iamlindoro:

lwizardl: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/googl . . . ;newsLang=en

[04:25:47]

sshirley:

hmmmmmmm....i don't think the backend is running

[04:25:59]

sshirley:

what is that command? ''mythbackend?

[04:26:07]

sshirley:

'mythbackend'?

[04:26:18]

fryfrog:

nice, i'd be happy with one of those to a hd stb cable box

[04:26:24]

fryfrog:

if firewire didn't work nice

[04:26:30]

fryfrog:

i wonder what the price range is going to be

[04:26:33]

iamlindoro:

$250

[04:26:37]

[Shodan]:

iamlindoro hmm , that hauppauge card is great !!!, I would be able to use my old xbox, via the component output , then scale it down to the native resolution of my projector !! great !

[04:27:03]

[Shodan]:

there's no component to vga 720p to 800x600 hardware scaler, with that I could make a software one ! :)

[04:27:27]

iamlindoro:

plus it'll do the scaling in hardware

[04:27:34]

iamlindoro:

so no need for software scaling at all

[04:27:58]

[Shodan]:

it would be Xv doing to scaling I guess ? right ?

[04:28:30]

iamlindoro:

Well, if you're playing something at non-native resolution, yes... but the device will allow you to scale as part of the capture.

[04:28:37]

iamlindoro:

so no need

[04:28:53]

fryfrog:

[Shodan]: playing a video game over one of these encoding devices really sucks

[04:29:02]

fryfrog:

it will lag by 1 or 2 seconds, basically unplayable

[04:29:49]

iamlindoro:

If not longer

[04:29:54]

sshirley:

ok....mythbackewnd isn't running because /home/mythrecordings is not writeable by the current user. /home/mythrecordings has the same permissions as /var/lib/myth/records (the default during installation). the current user i believe is sshirley. i would think that mythbuntu would have created the user mythtv

[04:30:13]

[Shodan]:

fryfrog, it's not for games, I use xbmc as a frontend

[04:31:35]

fryfrog:

ah

[04:31:58]

[Shodan]:

is there hope something like cablecard will work with mythtv someday ?

[04:32:06]

fryfrog:

never

[04:32:16]

fryfrog:

CL won't let cable card work in linux, it is to closed.

[04:32:22]

fryfrog:

would be nice though, eth?

[04:32:38]

npurciful:

sshirley: you going to have to chown that folder to mythtv

[04:33:01]

[Shodan]:

so the only way will be to go the taboo way of software decryption uh :\ even for paid for legit accounts, we are getting a raw deal :(

[04:35:26]

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[04:35:54]

[Shodan]:

pretty soon those component outputs on cableboxes will only output 960x540 and the only way to get full hd will be hdmi+hdcp input, so the only way to use mythtv will be an hdcp stripper plus a hdmi input card that doesn't yet exist plus you still have to control the cablebox with quirky IR or cablebox which won't happen or software decryption which is taboo

[04:36:00]

[Shodan]:

a bleak future uh

[04:36:15]

GreyFoxx:

Or petition them to open up firewire

[04:36:52]

mkrufky is now known as mkrufky-away

[04:37:27]

[Shodan]:

funny thing, my neighbour on this floor works for the local cable company, he exactly says that would never happen :(

[04:37:32]

[Shodan]:

*said

[04:38:25]

[Shodan]:

he even said he can active firewire on receivers at a distance (he works for tech support) but policy is not to do that

[04:38:30]

xris:

[Shodan]: working firewire's required by fcc mandate.

[04:38:34]

iamlindoro:

Heh... and those of us who get our channels via firewire wil go on being very very quiet

[04:39:04]

fryfrog:

[Shodan]: in the US, they are legally required to provide working firewire.

[04:39:10]

fryfrog:

though nothing stops it from being 5C'd

[04:39:16]

GreyFoxx:

[Shodan]: Sad

[04:39:17]

xris:

and it's a pity if we'll be stuck with hdmi encoders... hdmi may be digital, but it's not compressed... which means re-endoding and thus losing quality

[04:39:20]

[Shodan]:

dunno if it's required by the crtc though, also won't cable companies just weasel out of that ?

[04:39:32]

[Shodan]:

in most of the US are you getting video over firewire ?

[04:39:33]

GreyFoxx:

[Shodan]: The CRTC has no policy on Firewire here in Canada

[04:39:37]

xris:

fryfrog: no encryption allowed for local channels

[04:39:39]

fryfrog:

i did

[04:39:40]

GreyFoxx:

It's up to the discretion of the company

[04:39:42]

fryfrog:

ah, gotcha

[04:40:01]

GreyFoxx:

[Shodan]: Here in Halifax our cable co opens up all channels via firewire including hdtv

[04:40:03]

xris:

[Shodan]: local stations, yeah.. I think most cable franchises in the US are finally providing that

[04:40:17]

xris:

GreyFoxx: maybe I'll move to NS someday.

[04:40:21]

iamlindoro:

and it even varies by headend... I'm with Comcast, with whome most people get not much... I get everything.

[04:40:26]

iamlindoro:

er with whom

[04:40:27]

GreyFoxx:

xris: Heh

[04:40:45]

xris:

iamlindoro: comcast is a franchise...

[04:42:01]

[Shodan]:

do BEV receivers have firewire outputs nowadays ?

[04:42:16]

GreyFoxx:

[Shodan]: None I've seen

[04:42:32]

iamlindoro:

nope

[04:42:32]

GreyFoxx:

There is a hardware mod to add usb/firewire though I've never seen anyone do it

[04:42:42]

GreyFoxx:

I'm investigating it to use with Starchoice

[04:43:08]

GreyFoxx:

starchoice here is $35 a month, for 150 channels and 28 HDTV channels "free" with the regular stuff

[04:43:11]

fryfrog:

what are BEV?

[04:43:17]

GreyFoxx:

Bell ExpressVu

[04:43:19]

fryfrog:

oh

[04:43:21]

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[04:43:24]

fryfrog:

IPTV? Sat?

[04:43:27]

GreyFoxx:

Sat

[04:43:34]

GreyFoxx:

Canadian Equivalent to DishNet

[04:43:34]

fryfrog:

ah

[04:43:37]

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[04:43:57]

[Shodan]:

I get the feeling most suppliers will be going away from component and firewire and toward hdcp enabled hdmi :\

[04:44:08]

[Shodan]:

at least here in CA

[04:44:35]

iamlindoro:

Good luck getting *that* past the FCC... there are many many many HDTVs out there without HDMI or DVI, and component only

[04:44:38]

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[04:44:56]

iamlindoro:

It won

[04:44:57]

GreyFoxx:

[Shodan]: From all I've heard there will be a bigger push for Firewire

[04:45:19]

[Shodan]:

is drm possible on firewire ?

[04:45:30]

GreyFoxx:

sure

[04:45:42]

GreyFoxx:

but it's not really implemented as encryption

[04:45:51]

GreyFoxx:

they just tell the STB not to output that channel via firewire

[04:46:36]

GreyFoxx:

If it was encryption then all of the devices that are firewire capable wouldn't work with it :)

[04:47:51]

[Shodan]:

hmm firewire would be a step forward I'll look into that, maybe "convince" my receiver to output in firewire then ;)

[04:48:30]

[Shodan]:

well I work the night shift so gotta go, bye !

[04:49:52]

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CCFL_Man2:

anyone here use chaparral stuff?

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CCFL_Man2:

i'm having issues with my dms international lnbf

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npurciful:

err i should have debootstrap my myth compile instead of virtualboxing it

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v jams

[05:01:51]

fysa:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205130621&loc=

[05:03:30]

fysa:

no linux drivers yet AFAIK.. but would be an interesting way to add usable USB to a media center.

[05:04:26]

fysa:

(think iPod/card reader/SPDIF audio output)

[05:05:25]

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[05:09:25]

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[05:09:44]

unagi:

am i supposedly suppose to plug in my tv tuner and lspci to see it?

[05:13:11]

clever:

any pci based tuner should be visible in lspci

[05:13:39]

unagi:

expresscard = pci yes?

[05:13:57]

fryfrog:

expresscard is like pcmcia

[05:14:01]

fryfrog:

right?

[05:14:08]

fryfrog:

or do you mean pci-e?

[05:14:22]

unagi:

as far as my understanding expresscard is a bus card that runs on the pci-e arch

[05:14:43]

fryfrog:

unagi: but it is physically like a pcmcia device, right?

[05:14:44]

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[05:14:45]

unagi:

but yes like pcmcia

[05:14:51]

fryfrog:

ah

[05:15:57]

unagi:

does that change anything

[05:16:11]

fryfrog:

i dunno, just means i've got nfi :)

[05:18:08]

unagi:

where can i find cx23885 drivers and how to compile them

[05:20:45]

iamlindoro:

http://linuxtv.org/hg/~mkrufky/cx23885/

[05:21:01]

iamlindoro:

You'll need to read the documentation with the code to figure them out

[05:22:16]

iamlindoro:

This isn't the channel for that, anyway, #linuxtv is

[05:23:29]

clever:

ive seen a box to put a pcie slot on a pc

[05:23:43]

clever:

and its pc side adpater is either pcie or expresscard

[05:23:58]

clever:

so you could add pcie cards to a allready packed server, or a laptop

[05:25:23]

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[05:26:18]

unagi:

holy crap this is difficult

[05:27:46]

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[05:31:56]

clever:

http://www.expresscard.org/photos/expresscard-cardbus-hi.jpg

[05:36:05]

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[05:40:04]

xris:

unagi: what distro are you using?

[05:40:27]

unagi:

kubuntu

[05:42:23]

Guyfromhe:

haha

[05:42:28]

Guyfromhe:

stupid motorola pvr died again -.-

[05:42:37]

Guyfromhe:

i hate that thing

[05:44:49]

fryfrog:

mine was lame too

[05:44:55]

fryfrog:

had to rebooted about every 2 weeks i think

[05:44:59]

Guyfromhe:

those things suck ass

[05:45:11]

Guyfromhe:

last one just died for no reason

[05:45:16]

Guyfromhe:

stopped playing back

[05:45:19]

fryfrog:

is yours stand alone or hooked to myth?

[05:45:23]

Guyfromhe:

plus their firmware is full of bugs

[05:45:29]

Guyfromhe:

that one is my parents

[05:45:33]

Guyfromhe:

it's standalone

[05:45:40]

fryfrog:

i am looking to see how the "TiVo" firmware is that Comcast is rolling out in some places.

[05:45:40]

Guyfromhe:

I told them to get it cuase I thoguht they couldn't handle myth

[05:45:46]

fryfrog:

hehe

[05:45:47]

Guyfromhe:

I wish we could get tivo firmware

[05:45:52]

Guyfromhe:

the damn thing won't record anything

[05:46:01]

fryfrog:

My parents got a *new* DVR from cable co, it is actually not bad

[05:46:06]

fryfrog:

like "HBR 1600" or something

[05:46:07]

Guyfromhe:

i;'ve been trying to get them to fix series recording for 2 years now

[05:46:35]

Guyfromhe:

then we got this new one and the hard drive is shot

[05:46:49]

Guyfromhe:

had a funny call with shaw though :P

[05:47:02]

fryfrog:

funny ouch or funny haha?

[05:47:36]

Guyfromhe:

S: "Thanks for calling Shaw, how can I help you?"

[05:47:38]

Guyfromhe:

G: "Having some trouble with my PVR"

[05:47:41]

Guyfromhe:

S: "OK, what seems to be the problem"

[05:47:44]

Guyfromhe:

G: "The heads are scraping against the platters of the hard drive"

[05:47:48]

Guyfromhe:

S: "OH... thats no good"

[05:47:53]

Guyfromhe:

S: "Ok, let me try restting the box, sometimes that fixes these things"

[05:47:58]

Guyfromhe:

G: "<sarcasm>sure, whatever floats your boat</sarcam>"

[05:48:05]

Guyfromhe:

S: "Ok it's reset, record something"

[05:48:07]

Guyfromhe:

G: "OK, recoridng"

[05:48:10]

Guyfromhe:

S: "is it still making the noise?"

[05:48:14]

Guyfromhe:

G: "Hold on a second..."

[05:48:14]

Guyfromhe:

G: "Yup, still there"

[05:48:17]

Guyfromhe:

S: "Ok we'll send someone to replace it"

[05:48:23]

Guyfromhe:

thats how it went verbaitm

[05:48:32]

Guyfromhe:

i found it quite humours

[05:49:40]

Guyfromhe:

mythbox keeps chugging along

[05:49:49]

fryfrog:

hahah, sometimes resetting them fixes these things!

[05:49:53]

Guyfromhe:

yeah

[05:50:01]

fryfrog:

next time my hd fails, i guess i'll just try rebooting!

[05:50:21]

Guyfromhe:

sometimes *skreeeecchhhh* restting *skreeecccchhhh* them *skreeeccccchhh* fixes *skreeeeeecchhhh* things

[05:50:22]

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[05:50:43]

Guyfromhe:

oh I forgot the part where he said "because you uplugged it you might have corrupted some files"

[05:50:54]

Guyfromhe:

of course corrupt files make horrible skreeching noises

[05:51:18]

Guyfromhe:

"and if I would have called you, you would have had me pull the power anyway douchebag -.-"

[05:51:36]

fryfrog:

ahhahaha

[05:51:37]

fryfrog:

nice

[05:51:44]

fryfrog:

i hate support technicians sometimes :?

[05:51:44]

Guyfromhe:

yeah

[05:51:46]

fryfrog:

er :/

[05:51:48]

Guyfromhe:

they can be funny

[05:51:58]

Guyfromhe:

he didn't hastle me too much

[05:52:21]

Guyfromhe:

they usually try their 1 rediculous fix that I know isn't going to work, then bend to my will

[05:52:39]

Guyfromhe:

so I humor them because I know they won't put up a fight

[05:52:49]

clever:

ages ago i upgraded the ram in my xp system

[05:52:52]

clever:

it refused to boot

[05:52:54]

Guyfromhe:

heh

[05:52:55]

clever:

i removed the ram

[05:52:59]

clever:

it ran oddly slow

[05:53:06]

clever:

dads fix all answer is reboot:P

[05:53:15]

clever:

it froze during shutdown and never booted since!

[05:53:19]

fryfrog:

well, reboot usually fixes Xp!

[05:53:26]

Guyfromhe:

well I had to reboot the damn thing because it decided that the PVR service was no longer avalible

[05:53:27]

fryfrog:

ever figure out what went wonkey?

[05:53:43]

clever:

the harddrive seems to be overheating

[05:53:48]

fryfrog:

suck :/

[05:53:49]

Guyfromhe:

probably because the hard drive was no longer avalible

[05:53:51]

clever:

after about x mins of being on it starts to malfunction

[05:53:56]

fryfrog:

wonder why it manifested when the ram was added?

[05:53:59]

clever:

cant easily copy the whole thing out in 1 batch

[05:54:03]

fryfrog:

sure it isn't the CPU overheating?

[05:54:06]

fryfrog:

oh

[05:54:15]

clever:

ive since put it in a usb enclosure

[05:54:23]

clever:

and after copying several gig it stops responding

[05:54:27]

Guyfromhe:

i should check my hard drive

[05:54:33]

Guyfromhe:

my problem came back

[05:54:51]

Guyfromhe:

but only for 2 shows, and that was shortly after the system crashed a bunch of things

[05:54:55]

Guyfromhe:

so I dunno if it's a red herring

[05:54:59]

Guyfromhe:

cause it's been good since I rebooted it

[05:55:02]

Guyfromhe:

which isn't normal

[05:55:11]

Guyfromhe:

my NIC has been acting up

[05:55:22]

Guyfromhe:

if it start the B/F BS again i'm gunna turn off the onboard and put in a new one

[05:55:27]

Guyfromhe:

i'll check the HDD temp too

[05:55:38]

Guyfromhe:

I still think the PSU was at least partially at fault

[05:56:10]

Guyfromhe:

my sucessful video rate is really high now

[05:56:13]

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[05:56:23]

Guyfromhe:

only had those 2 shows fail since I swapped PSUs

[05:56:31]

Guyfromhe:

and I left it playing TV for most of the day

[05:56:47]

Guyfromhe:

and all the shows it recorded off live were clean

[05:57:21]

Guyfromhe:

it didn't screw up gunea pig or sarah conner today

[05:57:38]

Guyfromhe:

now I just have to pray it doesn't fuck up my moms stuff :P

[05:58:09]

Guyfromhe:

since the crap box is not capable of recording were moving the recording down to the mythbox

[05:58:30]

Guyfromhe:

xboxes make great myth media extenders too :P

[06:02:15]

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[06:18:36]

unagi:

i installed v3l-dvb.......now what =/

[06:20:32]

** tjcarter chases unagi with a bowl of rice **

[06:21:35]

unagi:

....

[06:23:08]

unagi:

i still dont see it in lspci

[06:24:42]

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[06:31:05]

Dagmar:

If a device doesn't show up in lspci then it's either completely broken or it's not a PCI device.

[06:31:11]

unagi:

expresscard

[06:31:12]

Dagmar:

Installing a driver won't change that.

[06:31:25]

Dagmar:

Whoop Ity Do.

[06:31:37]

unagi:

........

[06:31:56]

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[06:32:11]

Dagmar:

You say "expresscard" like that's supposed to mean something

[06:32:17]

unagi:

yea

[06:32:18]

unagi:

its suppose to mean

[06:32:21]

unagi:

its an expresscard tuner

[06:32:25]

unagi:

that runs off of the pci-e bus

[06:33:18]

Dagmar:

So reread what I said

[06:33:25]

unagi:

doesnt tell me a damn thing

[06:33:37]

Dagmar:

That's because you don't want to hear that your card is broken.

[06:33:46]

unagi:

or its because i know its not

[06:33:47]

unagi:

but oh no

[06:33:49]

Dagmar:

The only other possibility is that you failed to include support for PCI Express in your kernel.

[06:33:49]

unagi:

it cant be that

[06:33:50]

unagi:

its broken

[06:34:06]

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[06:34:13]

Dagmar:

...because otherwise _ALL PCI DEVICES_ appear in the output of lspci.

[06:34:19]

Dagmar:

_Period_.

[06:34:27]

unagi:

_you dont have to be a dick_

[06:34:29]

unagi:

_period_

[06:34:33]

Dagmar:

Whiner

[06:34:43]

unagi:

ass

[06:34:56]

Dagmar:

I don't know wtf your problem is that you're getting mad at _me_ because I'm willing to freaking tell you the truth

[06:35:14]

unagi:

of course you dont think you have an attitude problem

[06:35:15]

unagi:

why would you

[06:35:17]

Dagmar:

If you don't see your card in the output of lspci, whatever you do with driver modules means nothing.

[06:35:26]

Dagmar:

Yeah, because _my shit works_

[06:35:36]

unagi:

whoop ty doo

[06:35:42]

unagi:

youre still a dick

[06:35:46]

Dagmar:

Loser.

[06:35:56]

Dagmar:

Great way to get help, by calling people names.

[06:36:03]

unagi:

if youre going to be an ass

[06:36:05]

unagi:

i dont want your help

[06:36:05]

Dagmar:

Suffer in ignorance.

[06:36:12]

Dagmar:

Welcome to the ignore list

[06:36:18]

unagi:

im hurt

[06:36:19]

unagi:

im sure

[06:36:23]

unagi:

somwhere

[06:36:46]

insta:

!mods

[06:37:32]

Dagmar:

insta: The mods, such that they are, unfortunately know that what I'm saying is exactly correct.

[06:37:49]

unagi:

unfortunately dagmar is too ignorant to see how much of an asshole he is

[06:38:01]

Dagmar:

I'm not the one who started namecalling

[06:38:10]

insta:

jesus christ both of you shut up

[06:38:13]

Dagmar:

An expresscard is _still a PCI device_.

[06:38:20]

unagi:

DUH!

[06:38:28]

unagi:

jesus christ i thought you put me on ignore

[06:38:35]

Dagmar:

If he can't deal with being told his hardware might well be broken, he needs to grow up

[06:38:40]

unagi:

its not broken

[06:38:50]

unagi:

i guess you cant read some words

[06:38:55]

unagi:

like....its.....not....broken

[06:39:06]

unagi:

not too big of words

[06:39:09]

unagi:

maybe thats why youre so angry

[06:39:14]

Tanthrix:

Dagmar's an asshole, you're an idiot. See, it all works out in the end.

[06:39:21]

unagi:

im ignorant

[06:39:23]

unagi:

not an idiot

[06:39:32]

Dagmar:

I can at least be nice when I want to.

[06:39:35]

unagi:

and idiot is content with being ignorant and doesnt want to learn

[06:39:42]

unagi:

i highly doubt that

[06:39:45]

SerajewelKS:

feel the love

[06:39:55]

Dagmar:

...but calling me a dick pretty much puts an end to that in a hurry.

[06:40:08]

unagi:

yea because you were being oh so civil from the start

[06:40:23]

unagi:

the two options you gave....its broken........its not pic

[06:40:24]

unagi:

pci

[06:40:27]

unagi:

in both cases you are wrong

[06:40:29]

unagi:

deal with it

[06:40:30]

unagi:

move on

[06:40:32]

unagi:

SHUT UP

[06:40:38]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: have you tried the card in another box?

[06:40:50]

unagi:

card works in on this laptop

[06:40:57]

unagi:

i just cant see it when i flip into linux

[06:40:59]

Dagmar:

SerajewelKS: Watch out. If you imply he didn't get his kernel right, god only knows what he's going to say about you

[06:41:11]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: do you have any other pcie cards?

[06:41:16]

unagi:

no

[06:41:31]

unagi:

and i compiled the cx88 drivers about an hour ago and im not sure where to go from thre

[06:42:04]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: did you compile your own kernel? if not, which distro?

[06:42:09]

unagi:

kubuntu

[06:43:21]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: what is the output of 'grep CONFIG_PCIEPORTBUS /boot/config-`uname -r`'

[06:43:26]

unagi:

ah dmesg has an output

[06:43:36]

unagi:

one sec

[06:43:56]

unagi:

unknown symbols, im going to compile and reboot again brb

[06:44:08]

unagi:

if u arent here when i get back ty SerajewelKS

[06:44:12]

SerajewelKS:

recompiling with the same options isn't going to help

[06:44:17]

unagi:

no?

[06:44:18]

unagi:

hrm

[06:44:24]

SerajewelKS:

not unless you have upgraded something since

[06:44:26]

unagi:

i thought maybe i might have missed something

[06:44:31]

unagi:

nah its only been an hour

[06:44:48]

SerajewelKS:

ubuntu kernels should include cx88

[06:45:00]

SerajewelKS:

my debian one does anyway

[06:45:01]

unagi:

hrm i had do use mercuric to get it

[06:45:05]

SerajewelKS:

what kernel version are you using

[06:45:06]

insta (insta!n=insta@CPE-65-27-10-88.kc.res.rr.com) has left #mythtv-users ()

[06:45:21]

unagi:

whats the command to view that

[06:45:26]

SerajewelKS:

uname -v

[06:45:30]

SerajewelKS:

err

[06:45:32]

SerajewelKS:

uname -r

[06:45:46]

Dagmar:

So that's denial, bargaining, and anger... now to wait for depression and acceptance.

[06:46:01]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: please piss off, you are not helping

[06:46:03]

unagi:

2.6.22-14-generic

[06:46:23]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: ok then unless ubuntu packagers are braindead you should already have cx88

[06:46:32]

unagi:

is there a way to check?

[06:46:40]

Dagmar:

Yes, because I was called a dick for pointing out important bits of reality.

[06:46:58]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: ls -ld '/lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/media/video/cx88'

[06:47:20]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: that does not mean you should be a dick in return, especially if you have him ignored

[06:47:21]

cesman:

or grep CX88 /boot/config<tab>

[06:47:22]

unagi:

ls: /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/media/video/cx88: No such file or directory

[06:47:49]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: sorry

[06:47:55]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: remove the single quotes

[06:47:59]

SerajewelKS:

ls -ld /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/media/video/cx88

[06:48:12]

unagi:

grep cx88 comes back with config_video_cx88*

[06:48:13]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: and try grep CX88 /boot/config-`uname -r` as cesman suggests

[06:48:16]

unagi:

* being others

[06:48:40]

SerajewelKS:

i have, e.g. "CONFIG_VIDEO_CX88=m"

[06:48:43]

unagi:

drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02–05 01:14 /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/kernel/drivers/media/video/cx88 without quotes

[06:48:45]

unagi:

yes

[06:48:46]

Dagmar:

Well, I sure ain't going to take being verbally abused by someone I gave information to like it's no big deal.

[06:48:47]

SerajewelKS:

ok

[06:48:54]

unagi:

alsa blackbird dvb and vp

[06:49:12]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: then you don't need to compile the driver yourself

[06:49:16]

unagi:

dude, seriously, Dagmar, please stop whining

[06:49:19]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: remove your copy of the driver

[06:49:27]

unagi:

sudo make uninstall yes?

[06:49:39]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: probably, i don't know

[06:49:45]

unagi:

i installed v4l0dvb

[06:49:49]

unagi:

v4l-dvb

[06:50:02]

unagi:

im assuming thats the driver due to the guide i was deciphering

[06:50:10]

unagi:

or is v4l-dvb something i need

[06:50:25]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: it's cx88xx

[06:50:26]

Dagmar:

Until the device shows up in the lspci output, nothing, and I repeat _nothing_ will make it work.

[06:50:29]

SerajewelKS:

and cx8800

[06:50:48]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: what brand is your card

[06:51:04]

unagi:

its hauppage rebrand hp hvp 1500

[06:51:10]

unagi:

whatever the hv letters are lemme look

[06:51:22]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: do you have the pci id handy

[06:51:24]

Dagmar:

...but what do I know. I've only been using Linux for more than a decade.

[06:51:41]

unagi:

hvr

[06:52:00]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: please, please gripe somewhere else

[06:52:12]

Dagmar:

Okay, I'll make this blunt

[06:52:13]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: talk to an op. take a smoke break. something to lower your blood pressure.

[06:52:17]

unagi:

where would i find the pci id

[06:52:20]

Dagmar:

My blood pressure's fine

[06:52:33]

Dagmar:

Figure out why it's not showing up in lspci.

[06:52:39]

CCFL_Man2:

which would perform better, a c band LNBF or seperate feedhorn and LNB?

[06:52:42]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: windows will tell you if you ask hard enough :)

[06:53:00]

Dagmar:

Spanking around with the cx8800 driver is a waste of time

[06:53:03]

unagi:

lol

[06:53:07]

unagi:

id have to restart

[06:53:13]

unagi:

i dont think virtual machines will see it either

[06:54:50]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: what is the output of lspci | grep -i cx88

[06:55:02]

SerajewelKS:

erm

[06:55:03]

gnome42 (gnome42!n=gnome42@76-10-151-103.dsl.teksavvy.com) has quit (Remote closed the connection)

[06:55:09]

unagi:

nothing

[06:55:12]

SerajewelKS:

right

[06:55:19]

SerajewelKS:

how about just cx

[06:55:29]

unagi:

nothing

[06:55:40]

SerajewelKS:

ok, you need to find the pci id

[06:56:03]

unagi:

is the invalid symbol in dmesg any indication of whats going on?

[06:56:05]

SerajewelKS:

you may not have a symbolic representation of the pci id available on your box, so it may be showing up as an unknown device, though i would doubt it

[06:56:22]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: probably that you screwed up compilation of your cx8800 drivers

[06:56:37]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: can you pastebin your lspci output?

[06:56:41]

unagi:

sure

[06:57:42]

unagi:

http://pastebin.org/18245

[06:58:29]

clever:

one way to easily detect the card

[06:58:33]

clever:

remove it

[06:58:35]

clever:

lspci > a

[06:58:37]

clever:

insert it

[06:58:38]

clever:

lspci > b

[06:58:40]

clever:

diff a b

[06:59:03]

Dagmar:

clever: You're implying that he can't read his own output correctly.

[06:59:05]

Dagmar:

So rude of you

[06:59:09]

clever:

lol

[06:59:14]

unagi:

no output

[06:59:20]

clever:

it might be going by a cryptic name

[06:59:23]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: right, the kernel is not even seeing a device

[06:59:24]

clever:

which your not seeing

[06:59:29]

unagi:

exactly

[06:59:31]

clever:

check dmesg

[06:59:40]

unagi:

lemme post the dmesg because thats the most interesting

[06:59:47]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: my guess is that your PCMCIA bus isn't being detected

[06:59:56]

clever:

i sometimes get abnormal stuff in dmesg about my usb cord being damaged

[06:59:58]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: which is why it would be helpful to have another card

[07:00:01]

Dagmar:

PCMCIA != ExpressCard

[07:00:01]

CCFL_Man2:

anyone know what benefit a PLL lnb would have over a regular one?

[07:00:04]

clever:

when odd things happen to the usb client

[07:00:14]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: similar idea though, no?

[07:00:26]

Dagmar:

Similar idea, just an entirely different set of things to support

[07:00:26]

unagi:

dude.......dagmar,,,,,,,,,,,seriously...........you were wrong........get over it

[07:00:35]

Dagmar:

ExpressCard stuff is handled through "normal" PCI hotplugging

[07:00:58]

SerajewelKS:

right

[07:01:10]

unagi:

http://pastebin.org/18246

[07:01:17]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: my guess is that your kernel has no support, or broken support for your expresscard bus

[07:02:11]

unagi:

hrm

[07:02:12]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: like i said that is likely related to the driver you compiler yourself

[07:02:22]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: remove it; you already have cx88 support in your kernel

[07:02:29]

unagi:

k brb

[07:02:31]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: so it should have just worked

[07:02:56]

unagi:

hrm

[07:03:09]

unagi:

maybe just boken support because i dont recall ever seeing it in lspci

[07:03:53]

unagi:

broken*

[07:04:14]

SerajewelKS:

then no support is more likely

[07:04:33]

SerajewelKS:

actually, it should be there regardless

[07:05:12]

SerajewelKS:

my guess is that it's this one: #

[07:05:13]

SerajewelKS:

00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 Mobile PCI Bridge (rev e2)

[07:06:47]

JakeM-MB:

im trying to share my collection of tv eps and movies from my mac mini(os x) to mythtv(ubuntu) whats the preferred way of doing this? ftp or smb?

[07:07:20]

Dagmar:

Well, that's an easy one, since ftp can't do it

[07:07:39]

clever:

enless theres a ftp based fuse fs

[07:08:09]

JakeM-MB:

ftp cant do it?

[07:08:25]

Dagmar:

*sigh*

[07:08:36]

SerajewelKS:

smb or sftp

[07:08:49]

Dagmar:

sftp is also entirely unsuitable

[07:09:00]

SerajewelKS:

too much cpu usage?

[07:09:21]

Dagmar:

No, it lacks a _filesystem support layer_

[07:09:27]

unagi:

sudo modprobe pciehp pciehp_force=1 comes back with nothing

[07:09:30]

unagi:

is it suppose to

[07:09:39]

Vaelys:

means it works

[07:09:40]

Dagmar:

You can't _mount_ a remote filesystem over sftp

[07:10:22]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: if the sftp we are talking about is the one that openssh provides, then yes there is, sshfs

[07:10:57]

JakeM-MB:

http://blog.mypapit.net/2007/05/how-to-use-ft . . . rlftpfs.html

[07:11:00]

unagi:

well

[07:11:02]

unagi:

what do you know

[07:11:04]

unagi:

> 03:00.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant Unknown device 8852 (rev 02)

[07:11:09]

unagi:

wait

[07:11:09]

unagi:

wait

[07:11:12]

unagi:

whats that mean

[07:11:13]

unagi:

omg

[07:11:15]

unagi:

that means

[07:11:19]

unagi:

hrm........the kernel is right

[07:11:20]

Dagmar:

SerajewelKS: And yet, of the two options asked about, neither involves openssh at all

[07:11:22]

unagi:

the card works

[07:11:26]

unagi:

and its a pci device

[07:11:33]

unagi:

holy crap.........dagmar was wrong?!

[07:11:38]

Dagmar:

...and on one end of things is a mac mini

[07:11:43]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: it means that the kernel can see it but lspci doesn't know exactly what it is

[07:11:53]

unagi:

i know but at least it can see it now

[07:11:57]

unagi:

which is at least where i wanted to be

[07:12:00]

unagi:

i can work from there

[07:12:06]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: of course. OS X has a builtin ssh server.

[07:12:06]

Dagmar:

So no matter how many whiz-bang-spectacular transports may exist in the universe, the only reasonable ones are going to be what it can do.

[07:12:15]

Dagmar:

...so smb.

[07:12:16]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: so it is an option, probably one he didn't know about

[07:12:34]

Dagmar:

Crazy me. Answering people's questions

[07:12:41]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: and apparently one you didn't know about either, so meh

[07:12:43]

unagi:

crazy you

[07:12:44]

unagi:

being a DICK

[07:12:47]

Dagmar:

I knew about it.

[07:12:48]

unagi:

right off the bat

[07:12:54]

unagi:

but i know

[07:12:55]

unagi:

i know

[07:12:57]

Dagmar:

It's just more complex than someone asking that type of question is likely to be too happy about

[07:13:00]

unagi:

you dont see how you were being an ass

[07:13:03]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: apparently not about OS X then

[07:13:23]

Dagmar:

No, sorry. I know about OS X, too.

[07:13:28]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: seriously, you need to take a chill pill. you're being unnecessarily confrontational.

[07:13:33]

Dagmar:

No, I'm not.

[07:13:37]

unagi:

obviously didnt know what you were talking about with my question

[07:13:38]

Dagmar:

He asked an either/or question.

[07:13:41]

unagi:

just jump to the easy conclusions

[07:13:45]

unagi:

to which both were wrong

[07:13:54]

unagi:

and being a dick about it makes you look even more ignorant

[07:13:55]

Dagmar:

One of the options is entirely unsuitable.

[07:14:02]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: and i brought up an alternative option. is that wrong?

[07:14:07]

Dagmar:

No, it's not.

[07:14:11]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: nothing says you have to answer questions as they are

[07:14:16]

Dagmar:

...btu I'm not an asshole for _not_ saying anything about it

[07:14:49]

JakeM-MB:

thats for the input SerajewelKS, dagmar, a simple "smb is your best bet" would suffice

[07:15:11]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: IMO sshfs is entirely more suitable for a unix-stile environment than smbfs/cifs

[07:15:15]

SerajewelKS:

style*

[07:15:17]

Dagmar:

JakeM-MB: So what exactly is wrong with "<Dagmar> Well, that's an easy one, since ftp can't do it"

[07:15:44]

Dagmar:

SerajewelKS: Except he's looking to share video files so he doesn't need anything but read access

[07:15:51]

Dagmar:

He doesn't need uid/gid matching.

[07:16:00]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: so whatever, apparently answering questions "X or Y?" with the option "Z" is inappropriate. i will retreat into my shell and say nothing from now on.

[07:16:01]

Dagmar:

...and he won't be getting flock() support with any of them

[07:16:09]

JakeM-MB:

youre arguing over nothing, i have already gotten my answer

[07:16:26]

unagi:

JakeM-MB: thats dagmar for you

[07:16:30]

unagi:

i learned that 45 minutes ago

[07:16:37]

Dagmar:

JakeM-MB: So what exactly was wrong with "<Dagmar> Well, that's an easy one, since ftp can't do it"

[07:16:56]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: and will agree with everything you say, since apparently a 10+ years linux user is always more right than a 7 years linux user

[07:16:59]

** SerajewelKS shrugs **

[07:17:03]

Dagmar:

SerajewelKS: Cite where I said offering Z was inappropriate

[07:17:12]

SerajewelKS:

Dagmar: 02:11 < Dagmar> SerajewelKS: And yet, of the two options asked about, neither involves openssh at all

[07:17:36]

Dagmar:

Yes, and you're quoting out of context.

[07:17:57]

SerajewelKS:

"02:08 < Dagmar> sftp is also entirely unsuitable"

[07:18:08]

SerajewelKS:

no context is needed for that one

[07:18:15]

JakeM-MB:

i guess ill have to save my questions till Dagmar is gone next time...

[07:18:16]

Dagmar:

sftp != fuse module

[07:18:25]

Dagmar:

Actually

[07:18:26]

Dagmar:

Fuck this

[07:18:37]

SerajewelKS:

"SSHFS – filesystem client based on SSH File Transfer Protocol"

[07:18:43]

Dagmar:

I have had ENOUGH of the whining bullshit and the newbies who refuse to listen.

[07:18:48]

SerajewelKS:

looks like an sftp client to me, but meh

[07:18:50]

Dagmar:

Fuck all ya'll. I'm out.

[07:18:55]

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[07:18:55]

unagi:

finally

[07:19:00]

unagi:

jesus man..........

[07:19:12]

JakeM-MB:

im guessing smb is the way to go? lol

[07:19:17]

SerajewelKS:

so apparently i am a newbie?

[07:19:19]

** SerajewelKS shrugs **

[07:19:24]

SerajewelKS:

JakeM-MB: smb or sfts

[07:19:27]

SerajewelKS:

sftp rather

[07:19:30]

JakeM-MB:

lol thnx dude

[07:19:36]

SerajewelKS:

JakeM-MB: they will probably be equally easy to use

[07:19:44]

JakeM-MB:

ok, ill check into them

[07:20:00]

SerajewelKS:

JakeM-MB: i try not to use smb where possible, since it was designed for windows and has many built-in windowsisms

[07:20:13]

JakeM-MB:

yea, i dont necessarily prefer it either

[07:20:19]

CCFL_Man2:

hard to tell if the dual output feedhorn comes with cover

[07:20:46]

CCFL_Man2:

and, is there a 13v/18v switcher i can use?

[07:20:51]

unagi:

main:2247: FATAL: failed to open '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0': 2 No such file or directory

[07:20:54]

JakeM-MB:

if i could get afp working i would just use that but im tired of messing with config files for today

[07:20:54]

unagi:

any ideas?

[07:21:09]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: try using the card, see if the cx88 driver likes it now

[07:21:20]

unagi:

that error was when i tried to scan

[07:21:28]

unagi:

i havent gotten myth to work yet

[07:21:32]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: what error?

[07:21:34]

unagi:

says something about cant find some network

[07:21:35]

unagi:

> 03:00.0 Multimedia video controller: Conexant Unknown device 8852 (rev 02)

[07:21:37]

unagi:

er

[07:21:58]

unagi:

using '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0' and '/dev/dvb/adapter0/demux0'

[07:21:58]

unagi:

main:2247: FATAL: failed to open '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0': 2 No such file or directory

[07:22:01]

unagi:

oops

[07:22:06]

SerajewelKS:

hah well

[07:22:08]

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[07:22:18]

SerajewelKS:

no clue what's going on there

[07:22:22]

SerajewelKS:

that's progress though

[07:22:22]

Dagmar:

Actually, I'll jsut add more names to the ignore list.

[07:22:31]

** SerajewelKS nods **

[07:22:33]

SerajewelKS:

have at it

[07:22:36]

Dagmar:

Bogons will be eliminated.

[07:22:40]

unagi:

oh god

[07:22:41]

unagi:

hes back

[07:23:29]

Dagmar:

If people don't realize that protocol names are very specific, and are not the same things as utilities which use those protocols, and can't figure out why rational people don't magically figure out that they should have typed something else entirely, it ain't my freakin' problem.

[07:24:22]

SerajewelKS:

since we were discussing protocols (ftp vs smb) it was entirely appropriate to call sftp by its name

[07:24:40]

Dagmar:

Science, FTW.

[07:24:42]

SerajewelKS:

your ignorance as to the existence of sshfs does not preclude sftp's applicability in this case

[07:26:04]

Dagmar:

libmscleo.so: Someone should probably Google "bogons" before taking it personally.

[07:27:16]

unagi:

dagmar hates to be wrong

[07:27:31]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar is teh man

[07:27:46]

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[07:27:59]

unagi:

dagmar is a mere child

[07:28:29]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: please stop

[07:28:36]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: responding in kind is not going to help

[07:29:12]

unagi:

k

[07:31:27]

SerajewelKS:

regardless of who was rude first, you both were

[07:31:56]

unagi:

of course i was rude

[07:32:05]

unagi:

i ask a simple question and got some stupid dickhead remarks

[07:32:11]

Aval0n:

uh oh a negative conversation in here involving Dagmar? That's a shocker :)

[07:32:21]

unagi:

the worse part is he doesnt even realize he was being an ass

[07:32:21]

** Aval0n waves to Dagmar **

[07:32:33]

Aval0n:

where have you been man? I havn't seen you in ages

[07:32:36]

unagi:

he should be banned

[07:32:38]

Aval0n:

you on nights mostly now?

[07:32:51]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: then tell him "i think you are being rude to me, please stop"

[07:32:51]

Aval0n:

oh he realizes it :)

[07:32:58]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: if he doesn't, /ignore and move on

[07:34:38]

SerajewelKS:

Aval0n: honestly i'd have to agree — see our conversation about sftp

[07:35:39]

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[07:36:29]

SerajewelKS:

experience and history in a channel are one thing, but i don't think it excuses this kind of thing

[07:36:35]

SerajewelKS:

my $0.02

[07:36:36]

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[07:38:18]

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[07:38:25]

unagi:

so how do i test out my card?

[07:38:40]

CCFL_Man2:

anyone here know a thing or two about c band satellite?

[07:38:56]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: you can try something like tvtime if you get analog stations

[07:40:45]

unagi:

hoooooooly crap my webcam works?

[07:40:51]

unagi:

tvtime is showing my webcam feed lol

[07:41:46]

unagi:

mmmmmmk so the webcam works but tv isnt with tvtime

[07:42:08]

unagi:

ah

[07:42:12]

unagi:

says invalid argument

[07:42:32]

sphery:

clever: Always stream recordings from the backend: Enable this setting if you want MythTV to always stream files from a remote backend instead of directly reading a recording file if it is accessible locally.

[07:42:54]

clever:

sphery: i allready know of that, but i dont want it to do so when the file isnt recording

[07:43:59]

sphery:

Sounds like your NFS is messed up, then.

[07:44:09]

sphery:

After all, it works for how many Myth users. ;)

[07:44:17]

clever:

it feels like the appends are killing the readahead cache

[07:44:26]

clever:

causing it to read way more then normal

[07:44:31]

clever:

which overtaxes the wifi

[07:44:35]

unagi:

wait

[07:44:44]

unagi:

do i have to set up the tv tuner as /dev/tv?

[07:44:45]

sphery:

So why not use the mythtv-specific code optimized for the way mythtv reads files always...

[07:44:46]

clever:

ive had similar problems on my 400mhz frontend

[07:45:00]

sphery:

Why do you feel you even need to use NFS sometimes?

[07:45:10]

clever:

when i allwaysstream then even transcodes and commflags also stream

[07:45:18]

clever:

and it increases the mythbackend cpu usage

[07:45:36]

clever:

also bin/mythfrontend is on the same nfs share as the recordings so i NEED the nfs mount anyway:P

[07:46:11]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: i dunno. i think we're getting outside my realm of expertise.

[07:46:16]

clever:

i dont see a need for transcode/commflag to stream because they will never have this nfs problem

[07:46:25]

unagi:

oh

[07:46:30]

unagi:

well at least i know the cam works

[07:46:30]

unagi:

lol

[07:46:37]

SerajewelKS:

heh yeah :)

[07:46:45]

unagi:

ive never seen it work before

[07:46:47]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: just point the cam at a TV and your problem is solved

[07:46:52]

unagi:

lol

[07:46:54]

unagi:

nice

[07:46:56]

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[07:50:25]

sphery:

clever: Well, I don't know what to tell you. It would take me just as much searching through the code to suggest where you should look as it would take you. :)

[07:50:52]

clever:

i thought some1 might have the file memorized

[07:52:46]

tjcarter:

1080p 42" can now be had for $800ish

[07:52:49]

tjcarter:

w00t

[07:53:16]

tjcarter:

That means that by the time I'm ready, I'll probably be able to get that sort of a thing for $600 ;)

[07:53:35]

tjcarter:

(summer)

[07:54:52]

tjcarter:

Grabted it'll probably be an Olevia or a Vizio or something at that price point

[07:55:00]

tjcarter:

but 1080p is 1080p ;)

[07:55:27]

unagi:

eh

[07:55:30]

unagi:

not really true

[07:55:35]

unagi:

but i wont pop ur balloon

[07:55:43]

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[07:55:53]

tjcarter:

unagi: When 1080p is $600, you can spend $1–200 more for the bigger players

[07:56:16]

tjcarter:

I'm generally aware of LCD panel differences

[07:56:24]

unagi:

at least you prefer lcd over plasma

[07:57:26]

tjcarter:

Plasma has a short lifespan and actually costs more

[07:59:10]

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[07:59:47]

tjcarter:

These days even uninspiring LCD panels aren't actually bad.

[08:00:12]

SerajewelKS:

i prefer myth + projector :)

[08:03:39]

tjcarter:

Not gonna work in here..

[08:03:58]

SerajewelKS:

if it wasn't me and my gf's 1-year anniversary on the 3rd i would have thrown a little party in my dorm room

[08:04:00]

tjcarter:

50,000 hour lamp life = 22 years? pfft

[08:04:03]

SerajewelKS:

HD superbowl on a projector

[08:04:04]

tjcarter:

not really =D

[08:04:31]

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[08:04:39]

unagi:

im still not clear on mythtv

[08:04:50]

unagi:

i thought i installed it

[08:05:25]

unagi:

it says something about not being able to connect to the database?

[08:05:37]

SerajewelKS:

tjcarter: sure but at least the display unit and the tuner unit are not integrated, meaning that upgrades are cheaper in the long run

[08:05:48]

SerajewelKS:

unagi: your db password is incorrect

[08:05:54]

unagi:

db password?

[08:05:58]

SerajewelKS:

for mysql

[08:06:14]

unagi:

where is that text file that its stored

[08:06:31]

SerajewelKS:

where everything else systemwide is, /etc

[08:06:43]

SerajewelKS:

/etc/mythtv/mysql.txt to be precise

[08:06:54]

Tanthrix:

tjcarter: I do wonder about those lamp claims, especially considering that there's no concievable way that they could have ever tested that.

[08:07:12]

Tanthrix:

tjcarter: And I know I've seen one or two LCD monitors backlights go out after only a few years.

[08:08:02]

unagi:

i dont get it

[08:08:04]

unagi:

the password is right

[08:08:42]

Tanthrix:

Uh, mysql.txt is not in /etc/mythtv for me...

[08:08:52]

unagi:

it was for me

[08:08:53]

Tanthrix:

Always has been in ~/.mythtv/

[08:09:06]

Tanthrix:

Maybe it's a package thing.

[08:09:09]

Floppe:

not always

[08:09:17]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: one is used by mythfrontend, the other by the backend

[08:09:33]

unagi:

whats the difference

[08:09:36]

SerajewelKS:

for me that seems to be the case anyway

[08:09:53]

Tanthrix:

SerajewelKS: Not for me. This is a backend system as well. I think it just works in either location.

[08:10:11]

unagi:

i dont know difference between back and front end

[08:10:26]

Tanthrix:

unagi: Then you need to go read the mythtv wiki and/or docs.

[08:10:33]

Floppe:

maybe start to read the docs then?

[08:10:38]

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[08:10:40]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: i had to synchronize the two on my box before the frontend would work

[08:10:42]

unagi:

ive read the explaination, they dont make sense to me

[08:12:02]

Tanthrix:

SerajewelKS: It might be true then that the backend does look in /etc/ first then if it can't find it checks ~/.mythtv

[08:12:13]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: no, that would be the frontend

[08:12:24]

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[08:12:28]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: the backend's home doesn't exist

[08:12:34]

SerajewelKS:

or shouldn't

[08:12:44]

SerajewelKS:

or rather, it should be something like / and not /home/mythtv

[08:12:58]

Tanthrix:

SerajewelKS: You can run mythbackend as whatever user you please.

[08:13:03]

JakeM-MB:

ok, i just shared my itunes library folder through smb, set my music directory as the right one and i clicked "listen to music or w/e" and i searched for a sec but now it froze

[08:13:15]

JakeM-MB:

how does everyone else go about sharing folders to mythtv?

[08:13:25]

clever:

you need to rescan the music first

[08:13:29]

clever:

under setup

[08:13:41]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: indeed, but in my case it was the frontend

[08:13:50]

SerajewelKS:

Tanthrix: the backend may well use that logic too, i don't know

[08:13:55]

JakeM-MB:

oh, duh. my bad

[08:14:41]

unagi:

i dont get it

[08:15:12]

unagi:

i dont know which one i want

[08:16:36]

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[08:16:59]

fedorared:

unagi: You want to check your database.

[08:17:30]

unagi:

what database

[08:17:35]

unagi:

i obviously have no idea what im doing

[08:18:13]

fedorared:

How did you install, what documentation did you use if any?

[08:18:15]

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[08:18:15]

Tanthrix:

SerajewelKS: In any case, I think you're incorrect. Both the backend and the frontend check ~/.mythtv/ first. I just created an /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt with improper info, restarted both the frontend and the backend, and it worked fine.

[08:18:18]

unagi:

the wiki im reading wants me to install mythbuntu.......i dont want mythbuntu

[08:18:52]

Tanthrix:

SerajewelKS: I then removed the home directory file, corrected the /etc/ version, and everything also worked, so they both can check in /etc/ if they don't find it in the home directory.

[08:20:08]

fedorared:

unagi: What do you want?

[08:21:23]

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[08:22:16]

unagi:

do have something like media center for ubuntu

[08:23:02]

unagi:

to*

[08:27:00]

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[08:27:55]

JakeM-MB:

what alternatives are there to mythtv

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unagi:

i am trying SO hard not to give up on mythtv

[08:45:45]

JakeM-MB:

i was trying, now ive given up

[08:46:17]

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[08:46:20]

unagi:

the guides dont make sense, and i still dont know why i have to set up ip addresses

[08:46:25]

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[08:46:59]

siXy:

why wouldn't you have to set up an ip address?

[08:47:03]

JakeM-MB:

i'd be better off working with the xbmc linux port. probably the same amount of work and xbmc is pretty much the shit. but then again i dont need any kind of tv recording/playing

[08:47:07]

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[08:47:23]

unagi:

why cant myth connect to my database

[08:47:27]

unagi:

and what the heck is my database

[08:47:32]

siXy:

JakeM-MB: freevo maybe?

[08:48:00]

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[08:48:03]

sphery:

JakeM-MB: Freevo, Linux MCE (which is MythTV + cra^H^H^H"value added", VDR. Windows MCE, TiVo, cable-company DVR, ...

[08:48:09]

siXy:

unagi: i suggest one of the pre-made systems, mythbuntu mythdora etc. they are much easier for very new users

[08:48:22]

unagi:

so i have to replace my desktop manager?

[08:48:37]

JakeM-MB:

i dont know, osx86 is currently in my torrents downloads. linux just has a rediculous amount of work to be done for some of the simplest things

[08:48:44]

sphery:

don't need a desktop environment for Myth (no GNOME or KDE)

[08:48:48]

unagi:

oh lord youre telling me

[08:49:07]

unagi:

well as far as i know i installed the mythbuntu-desktop

[08:49:15]

unagi:

but it isnt giving me the dialogues that the guide says ill get

[08:49:32]

sphery:

I don't know anything about mythbuntu, sorry.

[08:49:35]

JakeM-MB:

ive been working on my ubuntu box for the last 12 hours, not including the day and a half that i spend figureing out why the fuck grub wouldnt install

[08:50:02]

unagi:

i just want myth to work....

[08:50:11]

unagi:

i spent 3 hours getting ubuntu to even know i had a tv tuner

[08:50:17]

unagi:

now i just want to test it to see if it works

[08:50:55]

unagi:

so what exactly do i need to do to get myth to 'connect to the database' whatever that means

[08:51:20]

JakeM-MB:

lol i got 7 hours on trying to get my vid card to go strictly svideo out and I still cant get the horizsync at the right setting so it looks like crap anyway

[08:51:48]

JakeM-MB:

windows xp running mediaportal was a more pleasant experience than this

[08:52:00]

unagi:

yea but windows is crap

[08:52:52]

JakeM-MB:

yea but it had the exact same functionality as i was trying to set up in ubuntu. i just need apache, php, mysql, webui for torrents(utorrent), and a media app

[08:54:47]

unagi:

im pretty much too tired to deal anymore

[08:57:14]

JakeM-MB:

i was really dissapointed after installing myth at how little it actually did at the simple things. im sure the tv stuff is awesome but you have to start with the simple things and polish them off before the big features

[08:59:50]

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[09:04:59]

SerajewelKS:

JakeM-MB: "simple things?"

[09:05:30]

JakeM-MB:

music

[09:05:39]

justinh:

JakeM-MB: on the flip side I took some time & tested MCE on Vista last night. OMG what a PoS! It couldn't even find any channels on a feed I know works! Lucky it's not my box

[09:05:59]

siXy:

justinh: it looks pretty tho

[09:06:12]

JakeM-MB:

lol no. i understand why you guys use it. mostly for the tv part of it. im just saying its not for me

[09:06:28]

justinh:

siXy: does not. I dunno how much crack the UI designers had smoked when they came up with the 'cross' menu system

[09:06:31]

JakeM-MB:

all i need is a simple way to browse movies and music

[09:06:34]

Ribs:

I use it for music

[09:06:51]

Ribs:

mythtv works really well on my playstation 3 now

[09:06:58]

Ribs:

you won't be Windows XP running on that ;)

[09:07:25]

JakeM-MB:

i dont like windows at all, i said it was a more pleasant experience

[09:07:36]

justinh:

siXy: it's not all bad, but it's not much good either

[09:07:48]

JakeM-MB:

^^^ i agree

[09:08:08]

siXy:

justinh: i like its music UI. works well as long as you don't have too much music

[09:08:37]

JakeM-MB:

how much is too much music?

[09:08:39]

justinh:

siXy: yeah like I said I think they got some things right. but the main menu sucks so bad it'd put me right off from the start

[09:09:03]

justinh:

anything over a few thousand tracks seems to defeat most browsing paradigms

[09:09:31]

justinh:

eep. need to get on my way to work

[09:10:17]

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[09:11:56]

Davo_Dinkum:

Hello.

[09:12:09]

Davo_Dinkum:

Does anyone have a HMC from D1?

[09:12:13]

Davo_Dinkum:

http://www.d1.com.au/hmc/welcome.php

[09:14:03]

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[09:16:44]

quicksilver:

what's the "internet radio" plugin they are using?

[09:19:35]

** raceme is looking for a double tuner DVB-T Pci or PCIex card which is not a Nova-T-500 and foundable in europe... **

[09:25:24]

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[09:30:02]

Dibblah:

justinh: I have to admit a definite liking for a cross navigation scheme.

[09:30:14]

Dibblah:

Of course, not the XMB kind of thing, that's silly.

[09:30:24]

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[09:31:28]

directhex|bsp:

considering XMB is patented, i wonder why the vista mce ui doesn't infringe

[09:31:42]

Dibblah:

However, you have 4 buttons on almost all remotes. Why, in a dialog with 4 choices, would you line them all up, meaning a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 5 presses, when you can have a min of 1 and a max of 1?

[09:35:17]

tjcarter:

XMB is the PSP/PS3 thing yeah?

[09:39:03]

directhex|bsp:

yes

[09:39:22]

directhex|bsp:

and some models of bravia tv, would you believe

[09:40:26]

quicksilver:

the same bravias which have cell chips builtin?

[09:40:43]

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[09:42:38]

directhex|bsp:

nah, just generally i think

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[09:48:51]

unagi:

can anyone point me in the right direction

[09:48:52]

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[09:49:13]

unagi:

WARNING: frontend type (ATSC) is not compatible with requested tuning type (OFDM)

[09:51:23]

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[09:55:17]

tjcarter:

unagi: I think you're here the wrong half of the day to ask about ATSC ;)

[09:55:41]

unagi:

im just happy its trying to scan for anything

[09:55:55]

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[09:58:07]

justinh:

Dibblah: not against the method of the cross menu – it just looks gash!

[09:58:31]

Dibblah:

Depends on implementation.

[09:58:42]

unagi:

anyone know what that warning means?

[09:58:44]

tjcarter:

I want to see a more integrated media setup..

[09:58:54]

Dibblah:

I want to see a puppy.

[09:59:00]

tjcarter:

I won't see with current code

[09:59:03]

Dibblah:

Or a pony.

[09:59:08]

tjcarter:

but still.

[09:59:14]

** tjcarter sends Dibblah puppy.png **

[09:59:14]

unagi:

i want my tuner to work =)

[09:59:31]

tjcarter:

anyway, 2am, must be awake in 6 hours

[09:59:51]

Dibblah:

unagi: It means that you may have misconfigured your capture card.

[09:59:51]

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[09:59:56]

Dibblah:

Argh.

[10:01:41]

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[10:02:27]

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[10:02:41]

directhex|bsp:

okay, here's an idea: mythtv-setup shouldn't allow you to proceed to a step without having completed the previous step at least once before – i.e. you can't enter step 4 without doing step 3

[10:04:45]

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[10:04:48]

anykey_:

5

[10:06:28]

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[10:22:24]

justinh:

okay. here's an idea. everybody with a criticism get coding & submit patches :P

[10:27:02]

Dibblah:

But patches are scaaaarey.

[10:27:56]

justinh:

muh muh muhhhhhhhhhhhh

[10:27:59]

justinh:

;)

[10:28:00]

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[10:28:31]

justinh:

pity blackest isn't around. I have some news for him

[10:28:41]

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[10:29:17]

Dibblah:

Heh. Obvious inbound routing loop on someone's cable modem connection. "We've scheduled an engineer to come out to you tomorrow". Uh.... Huh.,

[10:31:06]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, step 1, sanity-check idea, step 2, code idea.

[10:31:41]

justinh:

step 0 – idea comes without a patch, reject

[10:32:58]

justinh:

I think it's probably not a bad idea to make sure all setup steps are done but at the same time IMHO the setup regime needs a serious overhaul

[10:34:14]

justinh:

that ain't gonna happen without serious discussion and I can imagine it'd end up getting more silly than the 'video sources' thread did if you were to include the 'backseat developers' mailing list

[10:34:45]

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[10:35:11]

SerajewelKS:

does the backend do caching or something?

[10:35:23]

SerajewelKS:

i saw it using some 100mb of ram idle

[10:35:25]

justinh:

where did all the SoC guys go anyway? so much for some of them staying around

[10:36:20]

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[10:37:06]

DustyBin:

am i right in thinking, that if one has a screen what supports 1:1 pixel rendering, and the display only supports 1366 x 768 resolution, your computer can only send a 1360 x 768 signal to it as 1366 is not divisible by 8, and this will mean that the display will have a 3 pixel border to the left and right ?

[10:37:56]

directhex|bsp:

yes, you are

[10:38:05]

DustyBin:

aye, slowly getting there :D

[10:38:12]

directhex|bsp:

other than use of "what" instead of "that"

[10:38:12]

justinh:

DustyBin: means you can't use pixel matching if your video driver is lame enough

[10:39:03]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: oo you is being a stickler for correct usages of the Inlish innit

[10:39:10]

DustyBin:

pixel matching? never heard of it

[10:39:25]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, i'm southern, our grammar is all we have!

[10:40:09]

justinh:

tha woh-tah een maj-ork-a duzznt taste like wot it ought-tah :P

[10:40:39]

DustyBin:

i dont like the idea of letting the TV do some extra scaling, im sure this could cause all sorts of problems, including making the fonts look blurry and also mythtv jitter if the TV scaler is poor

[10:41:22]

justinh:

DustyBin: as I found out last night MCE takes care of that by blurring everything :)

[10:41:30]

DustyBin:

hahaha

[10:41:45]

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[10:41:53]

justinh:

I'm not sure you'd really notice unless you're really close to the screen

[10:42:13]

justinh:

but then again a 3px wide border is nowt

[10:42:24]

justinh:

you'll hardly even see it

[10:42:33]

DustyBin:

justinh: video might not look as smooth if the TV has to keep on re-scaling the computer signal

[10:43:03]

justinh:

true. depends on the telly though

[10:43:04]

DustyBin:

thats all down to the re-scaling technology in the TV

[10:43:21]

justinh:

.. or the lack thereof

[10:43:27]

DustyBin:

yep

[10:43:59]

directhex|bsp:

3px border is nothing to worry about

[10:44:12]

directhex|bsp:

and is pretty much inevitable in <37" screens

[10:44:24]

DustyBin:

Digital 1:1 pixel mapping id say is pretty important if your TV is going to be connected to your computer

[10:45:07]

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[10:46:04]

justinh:

I could live with a 3 pixel border. my only concern would be being able to see the bits you're not supposed to see in the video signal

[10:46:12]

DustyBin:

as directhex|bsp said yesterday, VGA would probably be good enough too

[10:46:18]

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[10:46:43]

justinh:

look at a full frame from a freeview recording.. notice the top couple of lines

[10:46:55]

DustyBin:

eek

[10:47:08]

DustyBin:

all sorts of shit could appear

[10:47:19]

justinh:

you can compensate for that in mythfrontend though

[10:47:31]

DustyBin:

overscan options!

[10:47:40]

justinh:

but, mo scaling

[10:48:44]

DustyBin:

my next task is to research as many TVs as possible 'that' feature 1:1 pixel mapping

[10:49:14]

DustyBin:

then go back to john lewis and find a new person to talk to and compare the results

[10:50:11]

justinh:

I like the laptop idea..

[10:50:20]

justinh:

pity I don't own a laptop

[10:50:47]

DustyBin:

i have a macbook pro what has dvi output but i wouldnt know how to test the tv

[10:50:48]

Dibblah:

BTW, the 'must be divisible by 8' is only applicable to NV cards, I believe.

[10:51:08]

DustyBin:

Dibblah: most people in the linux world use NV cards

[10:51:21]

Dibblah:

And you can ONLY get pixel-to-pixel mapping with DVI – Analog doesn't allow it, apparently.

[10:51:30]

Dibblah:

I use Intel.

[10:51:43]

DustyBin:

id rather use digital for optimum quality

[10:52:04]

Dibblah:

NVidia are evil.

[10:52:23]

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[10:53:42]

justinh:

ugh. Titivillus uses no less than three font faces

[10:54:46]

sid3windr:

titivillus sounds nsfw, but nonetheless quite interesting

[10:54:57]

DustyBin:

if i get my mythtv box to output a 1360 x 768 signal from a low-res UK freeview broadcast, would mythtv do anything to it to make the low res UK freeview broadcast look nice at that resolution?

[10:55:27]

justinh:

sid3windr: it's Titivillus, not Titilating :P

[10:55:39]

justinh:

DustyBin: nope

[10:55:43]

DustyBin:

:-S

[10:55:50]

DustyBin:

justinh: it would look terrible!"

[10:56:04]

justinh:

not without the nice scalers which aren't yet in trunk

[10:56:05]

sid3windr:

titilating doesn't tell me anything :p

[10:56:22]

sid3windr:

titty ville though.. =p

[10:56:31]

DustyBin:

justinh: scalers are being worked on?

[10:56:47]

Dibblah:

The XV scaler is OK on most cards.

[10:56:52]

justinh:

DustyBin: dunno. they're currently not used in the -vid branch

[10:56:56]

Dibblah:

It's not perfect, but definitely good enough.

[10:57:23]

justinh:

Dibblah: at least no worse than what TVs already do themselves?

[10:57:24]

Dibblah:

(I run a 82" or so 1280x768 display)

[10:57:41]

Dibblah:

Depends completely on the TV.

[10:58:24]

justinh:

I don't think any TV is gonna be doing lanczos scaling by itself somehow :P

[10:58:26]

DustyBin:

maybe it would be better to turn 1:1 pixel mapping off and let the TV up-scale it, maybe the quality would look better then

[10:58:49]

justinh:

DustyBin: suck it & see would be an option

[10:58:53]

Dibblah:

Some have the Faroudja chipset, which does really nice deinterlacing / scaling.

[10:58:55]

DustyBin:

aye

[10:59:04]

Dibblah:

But that's on the ultra-high end.

[10:59:43]

DustyBin:

so TVs with built-in freeview channels probably send the signal to special scaling chips before its displayed on the TV

[10:59:48]

DustyBin:

*tuner

[10:59:53]

justinh:

my inlaws' 37" Sony isn't terrible

[11:00:07]

justinh:

DustyBin: everything has to be sent through the scaler

[11:00:15]

justinh:

even if the scaler doesn't touch it

[11:00:38]

Dibblah:

XV on NV and Intel cards is generally a 6 or 8 tap interpolating filter.

[11:00:42]

DustyBin:

justinh: i looked at all the TVs in john lewis, sure there was some nice looking displays, but in the Sony shop all the TV images looked absolutely stunning

[11:00:48]

Dibblah:

So it's really not all that bad.

[11:00:58]

DustyBin:

im not sure what kind of signal they were feeding them

[11:01:15]

justinh:

personally I found the colour on their sony to be larger than life

[11:01:31]

justinh:

way too saturated

[11:01:39]

Dibblah:

Pretty much ALL TVs are oversaturated as they come from the shop.

[11:01:39]

DustyBin:

very bright and very saturated yes

[11:01:47]

justinh:

and no way to defeat it

[11:01:53]

Dibblah:

It's because they 'stand out' from the ones around them.

[11:02:18]

justinh:

NO way to defeat it. different colour temperature settings – no overall saturation controls

[11:02:21]

Dibblah:

justinh: Sure there is. It does depend on you being able to set gamma curves in your output device, though.

[11:02:32]

DustyBin:

but they really do catch your eye, the blacks looked really black and everything else really bright and saturated

[11:03:03]

Dibblah:

DustyBin: Sure. It's a marketing trick, though.

[11:03:03]

DustyBin:

nothing worse than a purple black for your black what is even on the display

[11:03:09]

DustyBin:

*isnt

[11:03:12]

DustyBin:

ok

[11:03:15]

Dibblah:

You really, really don't want it in your real display.

[11:03:22]

DustyBin:

yep

[11:04:13]

DustyBin:

the guy in john lewis said panasonic make the best screens, he put his finger across the sony and it left a trail, on the panasonic nothing happened

[11:05:04]

DustyBin:

he said the samsung cases were not of very good quality, he pressed it together and it made a lot of 'lunch box' type sounds and it wobbled

[11:05:22]

justinh:

DustyBin: you don't go round pressing the screen surface in on an lcd

[11:05:29]

DustyBin:

aye

[11:05:33]

Dibblah:

Grrr. Sales people.

[11:05:46]

justinh:

case build quality can be an issue though

[11:05:59]

Dibblah:

Why? You sit on your TV much?

[11:06:00]

justinh:

crappy ones will creak etc as they warm up /cool down

[11:06:13]

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[11:06:18]

DustyBin:

think this is a issue with those black shiny samsung casing

[11:06:30]

** Dibblah wants a TV that doesn't draw silly amounts of current :( **

[11:06:31]

directhex|bsp:

i have a shiny samsung, and have had no such issues

[11:06:39]

justinh:

and for the love of god, what's with all the shiny black plastic ffs?!

[11:06:40]

DustyBin:

ok

[11:06:42]

Dibblah:

I mean, 100w for a 23"...?

[11:07:09]

DustyBin:

justinh: agreed, all it does is reflect, thats the last thing you want when watching tv

[11:07:09]

justinh:

how long does black & shiny stay shiny in a real livingroom ?

[11:07:24]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, you'd be surprised

[11:07:25]

justinh:

get some heatshrinkable lexan :P

[11:07:35]

** siXy wonders what justinh gets up to in his living room **

[11:07:50]

justinh:

lol

[11:08:01]

directhex|bsp:

siXy, he has a super soaker filled with jam, which he uses to show his disapproval of what's on tv

[11:08:18]

siXy:

directhex|bsp: lol :) that would explain it

[11:08:57]

DustyBin:

because there is hardly no up-scaling technology built into mythtv i might opt for a smaller display, maybe a 22"

[11:09:10]

siXy:

so far despite the ravages of a 3-yrold daughter our shiny samsung tv has stayed shiny. so would imagine most childless people should have no issues there

[11:09:34]

Dibblah:

DustyBin: Errr... You read above, right?

[11:09:49]

Dibblah:

(I run a 82" or so 1280x768 display)

[11:09:56]

DustyBin:

10:56 < Dibblah> The XV scaler is OK on most cards.

[11:10:07]

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[11:10:12]

DustyBin:

Dibblah: are you feeding low-res UK freeview into it?

[11:10:14]

Dibblah:

That's using Intel through DVI, so scaling provided by the card.

[11:10:26]

pcb-dennis:

hey, does anyone use mythstream with youtube?

[11:10:31]

Dibblah:

Sky DVB-s, but similar.

[11:10:36]

DustyBin:

ok

[11:10:46]

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[11:11:35]

DustyBin:

Dibblah: what do you mean by 'Intel' ? Intel gfx card?

[11:11:48]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[11:12:04]

Dibblah:

i945gm.

[11:12:06]

DustyBin:

do nvidia cards support XV scaling

[11:12:21]

Dibblah:

Yes.

[11:13:39]

DustyBin:

i bought this card for my mythtv box, waiting for it to come

[11:13:40]

DustyBin:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/132315

[11:13:56]

DustyBin:

its a bit OTT but isnt that much than a lower spec card

[11:14:01]

DustyBin:

*more

[11:14:05]

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[11:14:49]

directhex|bsp:

yay for agp

[11:14:57]

Dibblah:

That chip isn't too bad.

[11:15:16]

Dibblah:

It's fairly low power, compared to the 78 and 88 series.

[11:15:17]

DustyBin:

yep AGP for my mythtv box

[11:15:22]

DustyBin:

aye good :D

[11:15:23]

justinh:

oh dear. we're being visited by the Duke of something or other & the lord leiutenant of somewhere on friday. must be up for the annual 'occupying previously unoccupied office space award' again

[11:16:00]

Dibblah:

It would be funny if it was a Charles sponsored visit :)

[11:16:10]

Dibblah:

... After all his rants about security cameras.

[11:17:58]

justinh:

Dibblah: btw been meaning to tell you I still have very occasional tearing on video on my new frontend. once in a blue moon

[11:18:34]

justinh:

can't remember what's patched & what isn't now though :P

[11:19:10]

Dibblah:

Do you use the vsync patch?

[11:19:23]

justinh:

in the driver? not sure

[11:19:35]

Dibblah:

Also, is your output set to 50hz?

[11:19:51]

justinh:

def. set to 50Hz according to xrandr

[11:19:52]

Dibblah:

I know it doesn't directly affect TV out, but it _does_ affect frame timing.

[11:20:11]

Dibblah:

I don't use TV out, so I really can't help much :(

[11:20:37]

justinh:

it's a very minor thing & I can live with it for all the times it happens

[11:21:17]

Davo_Dinkum:

can you run mythfrontend on dapper?

[11:21:41]

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[11:22:24]

justinh:

Davo_Dinkum: not sure if there are any 0.20.x packages for Dapper

[11:22:44]

justinh:

my backend's still running dapper but I didn't use packages

[11:22:49]

Davo_Dinkum:

what if i compiled from source?

[11:22:55]

justinh:

drippy diaper

[11:23:46]

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[11:24:02]

directhex|bsp:

dapper-backports: 0.20.2–0ubuntu0.6.10.1~dapper1

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[12:13:26]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I'm thinking of running a self-contained media center PC with myth tv, what's the slowest processor that it will run feasibly on?

[12:14:13]

picard_pwns_kirk:

...hello?

[12:14:33]

justinh:

answer me NOW!

[12:14:46]

Davo_Dinkum:

I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER DAMMIT

[12:15:51]

picard_pwns_kirk:

...what?

[12:15:51]

Davo_Dinkum:

dont skimp on hardware. buy good gear and your mythtv experience will be much better

[12:16:04]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I'm not buying it

[12:16:18]

Davo_Dinkum:

then...borrow it?

[12:16:31]

justinh:

what you need very much depends on what you intend to do with it and without knowing that.. nobody can possibly say

[12:16:37]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I've got a bunch of old computers that I hate seeing sitting in the basement

[12:16:58]

Davo_Dinkum:

recycle them then

[12:17:35]

directhex|bsp:

picard_pwns_kirk, you haven't revealed a single detail about what you want to do

[12:17:38]

justinh:

old computers make great weights for holding heavy doors open

[12:17:59]

Davo_Dinkum:

or the tall tower cases are good chairs

[12:18:01]

picard_pwns_kirk:

well, I need my mythtv box to view television and possibly record and transcode video

[12:18:19]

directhex|bsp:

what kind of television? analog? digital? SD? HD?

[12:18:23]

picard_pwns_kirk:

analog

[12:18:24]

justinh:

make for interesting experiments when you drop them from high places too

[12:18:46]

justinh:

and define 'old'

[12:19:00]

picard_pwns_kirk:

from 1999–2003

[12:19:09]

justinh:

'old' as in 333Mhz Pentium with 16MB RAM?

[12:19:16]

picard_pwns_kirk:

nah, not that old

[12:19:19]

justinh:

or 'old' as in Pentium 4 2Ghz ?

[12:19:23]

directhex|bsp:

comfortably, look at a 1ghz real cpu, nvidia card, and half a gig of ram

[12:19:27]

directhex|bsp:

and a decent tv card

[12:19:30]

picard_pwns_kirk:

500 mhz p3 270 mb ram

[12:19:35]

directhex|bsp:

bin it

[12:19:35]

picard_pwns_kirk:

ooo

[12:19:40]

picard_pwns_kirk:

okay

[12:20:03]

Davo_Dinkum:

doorstopper material

[12:20:05]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: but > 2Ghz with a framegrabber tv tuner. 1Ghz is not enough to watch & record at the same time

[12:20:17]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, aye

[12:20:28]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, and >4ghz if you want an epia!

[12:20:45]

justinh:

but with a pvr tuner card with onboard mpeg encoder.. 1ghz is just about enough for a pleasant experience

[12:20:52]

justinh:

if you don't do much transcoding

[12:21:08]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I also have a 1.5 ghz 512 mb computer

[12:21:15]

picard_pwns_kirk:

but that's as loud as hell

[12:21:52]

justinh:

and yeah you need enough horsepower to watch and record at the same time if you want to 'just watch' tv because mythtv reocrds _everything_. no getting around that part

[12:23:14]

picard_pwns_kirk:

will that mean that I need a big hard drive?

[12:24:28]

picard_pwns_kirk:

s/will that/does that

[12:25:44]

justinh:

define 'big'

[12:25:59]

justinh:

again what you 'need' depends on your expectations

[12:26:26]

directhex|bsp:

2TB array. t'is the only way!

[12:26:46]

justinh:

if you want to be what I jokingly term a 'file squirrel' then yes you're going to need lots & lots of HDD space

[12:27:16]

directhex|bsp:

you forgot a "& lots"

[12:27:18]

justinh:

using a Hauppauge pvr card at reasonable quality settings you take up about 2–4GB space per hour of TV recorded

[12:27:47]

justinh:

you won't be keeping much after watching it if you're sensible though

[12:28:11]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I may not

[12:28:20]

picard_pwns_kirk:

stupid enter key

[12:28:25]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I may not record at all

[12:29:16]

justinh:

if you watch tv you will be recording, in mythtv

[12:29:17]

directhex|bsp:

yes, you may. myth is always recording if you are watching

[12:29:26]

picard_pwns_kirk:

...oh

[12:29:26]

justinh:

_always_

[12:29:36]

directhex|bsp:

much like an off-the-shelf pvr, really

[12:29:44]

directhex|bsp:

it's how "rewind live tv" works

[12:30:00]

picard_pwns_kirk:

so if I watch 2 hours of live tv, that tv is recorded

[12:30:12]

picard_pwns_kirk:

or is it just cached?

[12:30:27]

directhex|bsp:

it'll get thrown away if you don't want it stored

[12:30:37]

directhex|bsp:

and you can choose how large to make the ringbuffer

[12:30:39]

justinh:

if it's not TV you're after I recommend you go look at something else. there are easier ways to browse & play media on PCs

[12:31:08]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, would you watch a tv show about free software & open source?

[12:31:16]

picard_pwns_kirk:

well, I'd like to have the capability to record tv, in case I ever need it

[12:31:29]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: I don't listen to a podcast about it, so no

[12:31:47]

justinh:

then again will it be presented by highly opinionated arseholes?

[12:32:21]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: if not, I might

[12:32:22]

Dibblah:

directhex|bsp: There is no ringbuffer ;)

[12:32:47]

** directhex|bsp throws some nuppelvideo at Dibblah **

[12:33:27]

picard_pwns_kirk:

I have a 40 gb HD

[12:33:52]

picard_pwns_kirk:

how screwed am I?

[12:34:15]

Dibblah:

Well, I only have about 2Tb.

[12:34:18]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: there are already more than enough outlets for chin-stroking wankers with outrageous opinions :P

[12:34:29]

Dibblah:

But then I'm an optimistic packrat :)

[12:34:58]

** bagpuss_thecat has a 10GB drive succesfully running MythTV **

[12:35:19]

Dibblah:

I have Myth running on a couple of no HD boxes.

[12:35:20]

mzb_d800:

picard_pwns_kirk: I've recently moved from a 160GB drive to a 500GB drive ... but then as justinh knows, I'm a "file-squirrel" ;)

[12:35:26]

bagpuss_thecat:

althought the 1.1TB RAID5 nfs mount helps a lot :-)

[12:35:26]

quicksilver:

40G is fine if you don't plan to record much.

[12:35:39]

quicksilver:

For watching live TV you only need a couple of gigs

[12:35:39]

** justinh realises he just looked like a chin-stroking wanker with outrageous opinions... **

[12:35:40]

picard_pwns_kirk:

mmmkay

[12:35:48]

mzb_d800:

(to give you an idea of how easy it is to accumulate recordings)

[12:35:50]

quicksilver:

if ou change your mind, well, a new disk is cheap :)

[12:35:52]

picard_pwns_kirk:

thanks for your help

[12:35:55]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, you didn't just look like one, you always have done

[12:36:00]

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[12:36:12]

justinh:

but.. but.. I have only bare chin to stroke!

[12:36:18]

bagpuss_thecat:

584G mythtv/

[12:36:26]

bagpuss_thecat:

^ and I don't record much :-(

[12:36:27]

justinh:

lower in magnitude, by definition :P

[12:36:45]

mzb_d800:

justinh: are you saying you need whiskers? ;)

[12:36:59]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, anyway, it's a serious question

[12:37:12]

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[12:37:19]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: it's a serious answer. if it's not presented by idiots I'll probably watch it

[12:37:22]

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[12:37:53]

directhex|bsp:

well it'd be presented by yours trul... wait, fuck...

[12:38:05]

justinh:

mzb_d800: I'm saying I look even more of a twat if I had a beard

[12:38:12]

mzb_d800:

ah

[12:38:32]

mzb_d800:

that might make chin-stroking fairly pointless from your point of view then ;)

[12:38:42]

mzb_d800:

(it's not the same without whiskers)

[12:38:43]

justinh:

yeah I know.. uses linux, is a bit active.. doesn't have beard! heretic!

[12:38:51]

mzb_d800:

heh

[12:39:13]

mzb_d800:

got a bald head instead?

[12:39:13]

justinh:

likes daylight too

[12:39:21]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, you know how jesus is meant to die for our sins, so we don't have to? RMS has a beard, so we don't have to.

[12:39:22]

justinh:

mzb_d800: working my way towards that ;)

[12:39:29]

mzb_d800:

:)

[12:39:32]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: rofl

[12:39:49]

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[12:40:45]

bagpuss_thecat:

directhex|bsp: lol

[12:40:51]

mzb_d800:

I've felt sunburn on the scalp, but the first time it happened I was told "Hmmph, you ought to feel HAIL STONES!"

[12:41:04]

mzb_d800:

not looking forward to it ;)

[12:42:18]

justinh:

that's why $deity invented hats!

[12:42:45]

justinh:

if you don't wanna be that **** with a beard, you can be that **** in the hat

[12:42:49]

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[12:43:00]

justinh:

I mean, look at that Jamiroquai bloke

[12:43:05]

directhex|bsp:

intel's mad new gaming platform supports both multi-gpu ati cards, and multi-gpu nvidia cards, despite 1) the technology being different and 2) nvidia's sli only working on nvidia motherboards

[12:46:57]

mzb_d800:

nah ... Dad was bald from 20yo ... and proud of it ... or should I say ... really didn't care (true engineer)

[12:47:35]

mzb_d800:

hat's were only used if desperate ... not for decoration ... which usually meant it wasn't around when needed ;)

[12:47:58]

DGnome:

The bords and bees need more heat out there, all hail multi gpu sli-deluxe and dual quadcore systems

[12:48:22]

justinh:

ricer boxen ftw!

[12:49:40]

DGnome:

the quadcores are pretty welcome but this gfx-bullshit has gone way beyond sanity

[12:50:09]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, why? games can use that power today and still chug

[12:53:49]

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[12:57:14]

bagpuss_thecat:

most games are badly written

[12:59:03]

DGnome:

yup

[13:00:22]

directhex|bsp:

bagpuss_thecat, in general code terms, yes. but "make it more efficient" isn't the panacea some think it is. things ARE getting more demanding, and not because code quality is getting worse

[13:00:22]

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[13:00:23]

bagpuss_thecat:

a friend is often quick to quote... "If you can't implement it in hardware, then you don't fully understand the problem"

[13:02:09]

directhex|bsp:

feel free to implement http://www.crysis-online.com/Media/Screenshot . . . ction-05.jpg in hardware

[13:05:33]

bagpuss_thecat:

directhex|bsp: is that drawn with no hardware acceleration?

[13:06:12]

directhex|bsp:

bagpuss_thecat, nope. though the lines between hardware and software got VERY sketchy a while back, when they started adding programmable shaders to things

[13:07:16]

bagpuss_thecat:

mmkay

[13:07:43]

clever:

yeah that part could be emulated in software if the hardware is lacking

[13:07:52]

** bagpuss_thecat is just looking at how shit that image is **

[13:08:15]

bagpuss_thecat:

bad layering, bad rendering, bad anti-aliasing, bad boundaries

[13:08:26]

bagpuss_thecat:

wish I never worked for a lboody animation studio

[13:09:02]

clever:

then you probly wouldnt notice all these things:P

[13:09:18]

bagpuss_thecat:

what in the name of gord is that fencepost doing at the bottom left?

[13:09:20]

directhex|bsp:

bagpuss_thecat, given at that res, even 3 of the fastest graphics cards in the world start to chug under pressure, WITHOUT AA, i'm not surprised they didn't enable it

[13:09:43]

bagpuss_thecat:

the multidimensional fencepost

[13:09:49]

bagpuss_thecat:

someone elert CERN

[13:09:54]

directhex|bsp:

clipping glitch by the look of it

[13:09:58]

bagpuss_thecat:

s/elert/alert/

[13:10:30]

directhex|bsp:

it's not a video, it's an ingame screenshot. most people won't notice these things when they're moving

[13:10:45]

** justinh was just about to say that **

[13:10:48]

directhex|bsp:

and that engine seems to act a little funny wrt z-buffering when you take screenshots, which it doesn't display during play

[13:11:02]

justinh:

I'd be a bit preoccupied shooting stuff to feck

[13:11:03]

bagpuss_thecat:

mmkay

[13:11:38]

justinh:

certainly doesn't look as gnarly as most xbox clipping bugs. ever fallen through a racetrack in a racing game?

[13:11:52]

DGnome:

I wish I could play crysis on my wintendo-boxen, but, I don't have 500e to put in gfx-hw

[13:11:57]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, yes, when i was working as a software tester!

[13:12:12]

justinh:

happens a _lot_ in burnout 3

[13:12:28]

directhex|bsp:

http://www.crysis-online.com/Media/Screenshot . . . ves-DX10.jpg – the water's pretty. not as pretty as you could get out of an enormous cluster, but given that's HD and realtime, not half bad

[13:12:51]

directhex|bsp:

http://www.crysis-online.com/Media/Screenshot . . . ins-DX10.jpg – mountains in distance? dense foliage?

[13:13:08]

** bagpuss_thecat clicks **

[13:13:20]

bagpuss_thecat:

NHSNet is a bit slow today :-/

[13:13:30]

** bagpuss_thecat feeds the hamsters **

[13:14:02]

clever:

older games would have plastered the distance as a flat wall on the edge of the map

[13:14:14]

clever:

or just used a faint fog

[13:14:23]

directhex|bsp:

clever, yes, they would!

[13:14:32]

bagpuss_thecat:

water is easy to render, but it's the dynamics that always piss me off

[13:14:42]

clever:

duke nukem 3d didnt even have proper 3d rendering

[13:14:55]

bagpuss_thecat:

admittedly scanline do quite well

[13:14:56]

clever:

look down from a high clif/building and the shapes of things is way off

[13:15:23]

directhex|bsp:

clever, the build engine wasn't 3d, it was 2.5d

[13:15:31]

justinh:

speaking of crap 3d. Emo!

[13:15:36]

clever:

yeah thats the term i was thinking of:P

[13:15:51]

clever:

ive made what i beleive was true 3d from scratch before

[13:15:54]

clever:

in qbasic

[13:16:15]

clever:

converted the xyz cords into angles

[13:16:15]

directhex|bsp:

http://www.crysis-online.com/Media/Screenshot . . . ungle-03.jpg

[13:16:20]

clever:

then back into xy cords

[13:16:25]

justinh:

I've made what I believed to be a totally world-best-selling game from scratch, in pascal. in my dreams :P

[13:16:54]

clever:

a dot at 45 degrees to the right+bottom will be at the same place on screen nomater the distance

[13:18:06]

directhex|bsp:

games be lookin' better, crysis' be eatin' graphics cards for breakfast.

[13:18:14]

clever:

it handled wireframe and double sided faces of solid colors

[13:18:22]

clever:

didnt have any textures

[13:18:59]

clever:

and totaly lacked the ability to rotate the camera

[13:19:05]

directhex|bsp:

i applied for a job at a 3d animation studio once

[13:25:43]

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[14:00:56]

psycodad:

hello, its maybe a bit OT, but I don't know where to start with this. I would like to convert all my DVDs to Xvid to have it available in video dir and I am looking for a simple solution to this. Can anybody recommend a good software on linux for this purpose (commerical ones included) ?

[14:03:49]

mzb_d800:

mytharchive?

[14:04:14]

justinh:

mytharchive doesn't let you import dvds. mythdvd & mtd do though :)

[14:05:49]

psycodad:

thx for the tips, however i have to add, that all my frontends have no drives at all (neither disc nor dvd/cd) and the backend has no dvd either. Would it be doable to install mythdvd on a "normal" linux ws ? (what is mtd ?)

[14:06:56]

directhex|bsp:

avidemux is very good if you want to do some post-processing work

[14:07:09]

directhex|bsp:

and you really DO want to do some post-ptocessing. deinterlace, crop, etc

[14:07:20]

mzb_d800:

mtd =myth transcode daemon (iirc)

[14:07:42]

directhex|bsp:

dvd::rip is less "nice", but supports distributed transcoding

[14:07:50]

psycodad:

mzb_d800: oh, thx.

[14:07:51]

mzb_d800:

I thought mytharchive had an import feature? (from DVD)

[14:08:23]

justinh:

mzb_d800: don't think it ever has had

[14:08:33]

mzb_d800:

ok, my mistake

[14:08:48]

mzb_d800:

tovid is probably a simple method

[14:09:09]

psycodad:

directhex|bsp: the problem is i think i am fairly advanced in linux stuff, but i have actually no clue about all that format/container/audio track- stuff that one has to know to manually process dvds or videos in general and to be honest I don't get it

[14:09:34]

** psycodad googles tovid which sounds promising ;) **

[14:09:57]

bagpuss_thecat:

psycodad: it should be possible just to install the mythtv-frontend on a linux workstation, and run mythdvd that way

[14:09:57]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, you know the expression "jack of all trades, master of none"?

[14:10:32]

psycodad:

directhex|bsp: no, sorry, what does it mean, i am not native english..

[14:11:36]

psycodad:

bagpuss_thecat: that sounds interesting...i'll give that a shot too. thx.

[14:12:00]

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[14:13:46]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, it means you can be "okay" at many things, but not excellent at one. most "one click" dvd rippers produce inferior output to apps which are almost as nice, but offer much more control

[14:14:01]

justinh:

THX is a registered trademark of Dolby Labs.. be careful

[14:14:30]

mzb_d800:

THX(R) ? ;)

[14:14:48]

GreyFoxx:

thxthxthxthxthx

[14:14:51]

directhex|bsp:

don't lucasfilm own thx?

[14:14:51]

mzb_d800:

(doesn't quite convey the same meaning;)

[14:14:56]

mzb_d800:

heh

[14:15:15]

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[14:15:20]

mzb_d800:

GreyFoxx: thx(r*1) then?

[14:15:34]

GreyFoxx:

too many characters to type :)

[14:15:45]

mzb_d800:

yes, I tend to agree :)

[14:15:52]

justinh:

"should there be a development area on the forum... and a themes page where people can get help making themes". hmmm how many theme designers are there whose brains can be picked anyway?! pfft!

[14:16:28]

mzb_d800:

anyway ... enough fun and games, g(ood)ni(gh)t[e] all ;)

[14:16:39]

justinh:

nn

[14:16:57]

bagpuss_thecat:

nn

[14:17:07]

psycodad:

directhex|bsp: I feel excellent in what i do for my life: sysadmin on unices, however multimedia isn't really my topic. But I get the deeper message and it has its truth. Thanks(!) for all your tips and help ;)

[14:18:08]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, avidemux is my favourite transcoder for linux

[14:18:18]

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[14:23:47]

psycodad:

directhex|bsp: i have heard that and when i tried to use it i was so terribly confused that I was about to give up... Maybe I should go for a book about video formats and such, any recommendations in this area?

[14:24:14]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, there's no book. there are some reasonable tutorials on the web if you know where to look

[14:24:31]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, if you have specific questions, they can be answered

[14:25:22]

psycodad:

say, somebody would bore you with complete stupid questions about transcoding, formats and such, where would you send him for RTFM ? (That might be a good start for me *heh*)

[14:28:00]

bradd:

if i have all of my movies/videos on my backend..is the only way for a remote frontend to view those videos is to nfs mount the video dir on the frontend? or should i be able to use upnp?

[14:28:09]

GreyFoxx:

mount them

[14:28:14]

GreyFoxx:

myth isn't at this point a upnp client

[14:28:18]

bradd:

okay

[14:28:23]

bradd:

thats exactly what i wanted to know

[14:28:28]

bradd:

thanks

[14:28:38]

directhex|bsp:

psycodad, doom9.org

[14:30:20]

psycodad:

ty directhex|bsp, www.doom9.org times out in my browser right now, but ill retry in an hour or so.

[14:32:59]

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[14:33:11]

momelod:

g'morning chanel

[14:34:07]

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[14:34:13]

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[14:36:18]

psycodad:

I installed mythdvd on a ws with working mythfrontend and when i try to start it I get the following error:

[14:36:21]

psycodad:

Problem opening logfile. Does thislook openable to you: /var/lib/mythdvd/temp/mtd.log

[14:36:50]

psycodad:

I made sure the path exists on the frontend and backend and it has world write on...what could be wrong`?

[14:39:17]

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[14:43:54]

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[14:44:36]

setuid:

Do front-ends ever need storage?

[14:44:55]

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[14:45:03]

hads:

Not nessecarily.

[14:45:25]

justinh:

they can be diskless & just get everything they need over NFS

[14:45:41]

siXy:

its less faff to have a small disk, however

[14:45:46]

setuid:

Why do they need to "get anything" at all? Don't they just stream the data from the master, and play it?

[14:45:54]

siXy:

well having an OS helpts

[14:46:01]

justinh:

setuid: only tv can so far be streamed within mythtv

[14:46:08]

setuid:

I se

[14:46:10]

justinh:

setuid: everything else has to be 'local'

[14:46:11]

setuid:

*see

[14:46:36]

setuid:

So it really is no different from me mounting an NFS mount to a storage array, and using mplayer to play /mnt/nfs/dvd/foo.iso then?

[14:46:39]

justinh:

that will probably change but fwiw it's very little hassle to set up nfs exports & mounts

[14:46:45]

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[14:46:54]

justinh:

setuid: yup

[14:47:53]

justinh:

setuid: some parts of a mythtv system require that different frontends mount media to the same 'local' location – notably mythvideo. i.e. export a share (say /myth/videos) and mount it to /myth/videos on all frontends

[14:48:18]

Dagmar:

setuid: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview

[14:48:20]

justinh:

wonder what other untruths the guy at your LUG came out with last night

[14:48:23]

Dagmar:

That will explain most of what you've been asking

[14:48:33]

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[14:48:37]

setuid:

Dagmar, Will look in a moment, thansk.

[14:48:38]

hads:

NFS is basically local once it's mounted.

[14:48:49]

setuid:

justinh, He said he's been running it for ~3 years, and he's no expert (his words)

[14:49:08]

justinh:

have to be very careful when telling others, is all

[14:49:12]

Dagmar:

justinh: Yay me. I got called a dick last night for telling someone that either their kernel was wrong or their expresscard tuner was broken

[14:49:52]

justinh:

Dagmar: well, I've been called a 'Cancer' before

[14:50:06]

setuid:

hahahah

[14:50:21]

Dagmar:

We need a protocol that allows us to stab out the eyes of newbies, remotely.

[14:50:22]

justinh:

just for suggesting somebody submit a patch for a stupid feature idea

[14:50:37]

setuid:

Hrm, a usb-mounted eye-poker

[14:50:39]

Davo_Dinkum:

heh

[14:50:49]

Davo_Dinkum:

why would you abuse ppl trying to help you?

[14:50:53]

setuid:

They make usb-enabled BDSM cuffs and restraints, why not an eye-poker

[14:51:02]

Davo_Dinkum:

oooh link me

[14:51:04]

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[14:51:11]

Dagmar:

Davo_Dinkum: Lead in the water is my guess, but overly accepting parents would possibly be another

[14:51:15]

setuid:

There's people writing scripts to use them via SecondLife

[14:51:29]

Dagmar:

saetuid: I try not to think about hte things that go on in second life

[14:51:33]

** justinh signs up for the 2ndlife game **

[14:51:37]

setuid:

hahaha

[14:51:58]

Dagmar:

There's a thriving "escort" business there, for prices higher than you would ever believe

[14:52:01]

Davo_Dinkum:

i dont get the parents bit.

[14:52:04]

Dagmar:

Prices in real money.

[14:52:08]

setuid:

It's not really a game... there's no score, you can't die, and there's no real point to it. It's like IRC, with avatars, and all of the trolls you'd normally expect.... x 100.

[14:52:09]

justinh:

spot the deliberate 'piss off second life users' bit there? ;)

[14:52:19]

Dagmar:

Davo_Dinkum: Parents telling their kids that they're special and nothing they can ever do is wrong

[14:52:30]

setuid:

Dagmar, I actually know an adult film star who uses SL to leverage her real-world sales.

[14:52:32]

Davo_Dinkum:

ah right

[14:52:37]

Davo_Dinkum:

yeah they blow

[14:52:40]

setuid:

I had an "SL" meeting with her and her manager to give them more ideas

[14:52:43]

Dagmar:

setuid: Good for her, then (not kidding)

[14:53:03]

Dagmar:

setuid: Communications, SL is very good for. Prostitution tho, that makes me say WTF

[14:53:04]

justinh:

anything that keeps them out of the real world can only be a great thing

[14:53:21]

setuid:

Dagmar, Seriously... like you go see her "perform" and dance in SL at a specific time, and then you get a coupon, which you then take to her web store, and get discounts on her real videos... and if you buy things from her real store on the web, she gives you $L to spend in SL.

[14:53:43]

setuid:

It's really an interesting way of linking the two together.

[14:53:46]

justinh:

one of my old friends has a girlfriend who lives on secondlife. she doesn't cook, clean, or put out. we keep asking him why he doesn't throw her out

[14:53:59]

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[14:54:23]

Davo_Dinkum:

maybe she puts out and you dont know it

[14:54:23]

justinh:

* or work

[14:54:35]

justinh:

nah he's always complaining about it

[14:54:39]

setuid:

She probably puts out on SL

[14:54:40]

Davo_Dinkum:

putting out in second life is pointless anyway

[14:54:45]

Davo_Dinkum:

heh

[14:54:56]

justinh:

doesn't do anything but sit there on second life

[14:54:58]

setuid:

A lot of chicks don't feel that "masturbating" with someone else in SL is cheating.

[14:55:13]

Davo_Dinkum:

skanks

[14:55:19]

justinh:

I wouldn't see it that way either tbh

[14:55:21]

setuid:

So lame, and further increases the problem with people being bred to be even more anti-social.

[14:55:47]

justinh:

not the same as actual carnal infidelity, that's fer sure

[14:55:52]

setuid:

I go out to pubs, and see tables of people sitting together, not talking to each other, but texting _other_ people on their phones.

[14:55:59]

Davo_Dinkum:

im only anti-social cos ppl suck

[14:56:09]

setuid:

justinh, I know that subject all too well ;D My wife has been sleeping with her boss for the last 2.5 years.

[14:56:36]

justinh:

I was an infidel once. never again

[14:56:48]

directhex|bsp:

viva fidel!

[14:57:17]

setuid:

I found out 1 week after it started, gave them a week to knock it off and admit it to their respective spouses, they said I was insane and nothing was going on, so I filed for divorce, called his wife, produced all of my evidence for her, and we've been fighting the divorce process for the last 2.5 years.

[14:57:41]

setuid:

What kind of a mother cheats on her husband of 7 years, 1 year after her first daughter is born? Sick people.

[14:58:05]

setuid:

justinh, I'm assembling some of your "corrections" and such in an email back to my LUG....

[14:59:16]

justinh:

2.5 years? yeeks man

[14:59:29]

setuid:

Hrm, I wonder... if I move the ~100gb of ripped music we have here to a MythTV master, and then use Samba to export that back to the Mac/Windows machines for iTunes, if it will all still work properly.

[15:01:00]

directhex|bsp:

setuid, for itunes, you could run mt-daapd on the server

[15:01:13]

psycodad:

if i try to convert on a workstation, does that mtd have to run on the backend or the workstation in question?

[15:01:27]

setuid:

directhex|bsp, whassat?

[15:01:33]

justinh:

psycodad: on the workstation. it's not distributed

[15:01:37]

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[15:01:39]

directhex|bsp:

setuid, an itunes music share daemon

[15:02:04]

setuid:

Yes, but the problem with _that_ is that you can't copy music from the share onto an iPod

[15:02:15]

setuid:

Using the "streaming" method that is

[15:02:25]

setuid:

We tried that with real iTunes on a Windows machine, sharing out to my wife's Mac

[15:02:28]

directhex|bsp:

can you not? stupid locked down proprietary software

[15:02:36]

setuid:

Yep, it won't let you. It's all greyed out.

[15:02:44]

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[15:04:10]

psycodad:

justinh: ty.

[15:08:11]

setuid:

What's the maximum number of tuners that anyone has ever put into one physical system with MythTV?

[15:08:15]

setuid:

4? 8?

[15:08:40]

Dagmar:

I'm sure someone's done 4 PVR-500's before

[15:09:06]

setuid:

And that card works with Linux?

[15:09:08]

GreyFoxx:

I saw someone who was planning to buy one of the external PCI rackmount cases which help like 8 pci solts

[15:09:19]

GreyFoxx:

and populate that and the mainboard with PVR500's

[15:09:38]

GreyFoxx:

so 12 pvr 500's = 24 inputs

[15:09:44]

setuid:

PVR500 is only a single-tuner card though, so that's still only 4.

[15:09:50]

Dagmar:

No, it's not.

[15:09:51]

justinh:

no

[15:09:56]

GreyFoxx:

dual tuners on the card

[15:09:59]

justinh:

pvr500 = dual tuners

[15:10:00]

setuid:

It has FM In and TV In

[15:10:02]

GreyFoxx:

pvr 500 =2 pvr150's

[15:10:08]

setuid:

You can use one of the FM inputs for TV?

[15:10:10]

Dagmar:

setuid: Dude, stop arguing.

[15:10:10]

justinh:

2 tuners, one input for TV

[15:10:16]

GreyFoxx:

It's got an internal splitter

[15:10:16]

Dagmar:

We're not voices in your head.

[15:10:44]

setuid:

I thought each tuner had to have a separate, physical cable connection to it? (this came up last night in our LUG preso as well)

[15:11:06]

Dagmar:

No.

[15:11:07]

setuid:

They were talking about splitting at the source (and taking the dB hit) or splitting at each destination (daisychaining)

[15:11:11]

justinh:

sounds like that guy needs to have a meeting in a dark alley

[15:11:15]

Dagmar:

I suggest you drink whiskey until you can't remember anything that person told you.

[15:11:16]

GreyFoxx:

setuid: the pvr500 has an internal splitter and is just 2 cards on the one physical card

[15:11:28]

Dagmar:

Just drown those little brain cells.

[15:11:44]

setuid:

_My_ brain cells are fine :) It's the mis/disinformation we received

[15:12:02]

setuid:

That's why I'm here, to help clarify/clear that up

[15:12:09]

Dagmar:

It's sounding more and more like I would have been throwing things at the presenter for substituting creative writing for research.

[15:12:45]

Dagmar:

You can use scotch if you prefer.

[15:12:49]

Dagmar:

...or sake.

[15:13:24]

Dagmar:

It may or may not work, but an hour after you start, you'll definitely feel a lot more positive about the attempt.

[15:13:39]

setuid:

Hrm, the Wiki claims the PVR-500 is EOL

[15:14:12]

Dagmar:

Plenty of places still have them.

[15:14:27]

Dagmar:

Get 'em while you can

[15:14:28]

setuid:

Is there a card that supercedes that one?

[15:15:11]

Dagmar:

Like all the ATSC and DVB cards?

[15:15:25]

Dagmar:

Analog is finally on it's way out, we _hope_

[15:15:54]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, fine cuban rum

[15:15:56]

Dagmar:

I dont' have a lot of faith in the FCC anymore, but we can pray for the best and try not to think about it until they finally do make everyone change over to digital

[15:16:17]

setuid:

What are the implications on MythTV, if everyone is forced to digital and CableCard?

[15:16:20]

Dagmar:

The Comcast people here seem to think they'll never actually have to adhere to the CableCard specs

[15:16:23]

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[15:16:41]

Dagmar:

setuid: There's actually some support for CableCard now

[15:16:58]

Dagmar:

Just not many CTV providers really interested in allowing users to use cablecard

[15:18:57]

setuid:

Do I want this package? http://tinyurl.com/2ejorl

[15:18:59]

setuid:

Or just the card itself?

[15:19:27]

directhex|bsp:

SerajewelKS, do you want a remote, or the ability to use a set-top box? if not, you need card-only

[15:20:04]

setuid:

Well, the only other option is a wireless keyboard, no?

[15:20:25]

Dagmar:

setuid: Considering they sell just the card, figure out if you can get a decent remote an IR reciever for the difference in price

[15:20:26]

setuid:

I guess I'd rather have a remote, but that'd have to be for the front-ends, not the backends. Front-ends don't need tuner cards, do they?

[15:22:35]

quicksilver:

indeed not

[15:22:41]

quicksilver:

frontends need tv-out cards

[15:22:44]

quicksilver:

or monitors :)

[15:22:52]

quicksilver:

and some kind of network connection to the backend

[15:23:49]

directhex|bsp:

and 3ghz core 2 quads

[15:26:12]

setuid:

hahaha

[15:26:40]

setuid:

Nah, I get my stuff from SMK, super-cheap, brand new AMD64x2 stuff. Full machine + 2gb RAM for $330 (case, cpu, ram, cooler, mobo, etc.)

[15:28:36]

setuid:

http://www.smksuperstore.com/867/Catalog/Bare . . . _AMD_CPU.htm

[15:28:54]

directhex|bsp:

that's one way to do things

[15:28:57]

sid3windr:

woah, $330, that's like the price of 2 beers here :>

[15:29:01]

setuid:

hahahah

[15:29:04]

sid3windr:

3 eur

[15:29:05]

sid3windr:

;>

[15:29:31]

setuid:

I bought 3 of them a few months back, and I've never been happier. I beefed up the PSUs in each case too, and my power bill went _down_ by 40%

[15:29:46]

setuid:

They replaced some single-core, Duron machines

[15:30:00]

directhex|bsp:

if you really like amd

[15:30:00]

Dagmar:

Yeah, I kind of justifed a few purchases this year after looking at what some of my older stuff was drawing with the ammeter

[15:30:13]

setuid:

I have a Watts-Up Pro, and it was pretty amazing

[15:30:29]

setuid:

The new machines draw 40W, but the Duron ran at 400W all the time.

[15:30:43]

setuid:

And the new machines are bigger, faster, dual-core, more RAM

[15:31:00]

sid3windr:

ehh, well, only the CPU could not be drawing 400W

[15:32:01]

directhex|bsp:

sid3windr, no, but durons had no frequency scaling. couple that with a dreadful power supply, i can see a full machine draining 400w

[15:32:26]

directhex|bsp:

400w in, not 400w used by components

[15:32:55]

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[15:32:58]

Dagmar:

I could see the k6–2 450 drawing 400W tho

[15:33:06]

Dagmar:

That thing would run "cool" in hell

[15:33:07]

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[15:34:15]

Dagmar:

I somewhat need to get rid of the one I have, but it's so funny to see people's faces when the temp reading just sits there at 135F, with the peltier cooler and massive HSF.

[15:34:45]

setuid:

hahaha

[15:34:49]

directhex|bsp:

what the hell is 135F in real numbers?

[15:34:58]

Dagmar:

Hot enough to burn your damn fingers

[15:35:06]

directhex|bsp:

less than 60C? meh

[15:35:15]

Dagmar:

Without the peltier the thing sits at 142–145F under load

[15:35:38]

Dagmar:

Most of the newer CPUs would up and die at that temp

[15:36:05]

sid3windr:

ehh

[15:36:13]

Dagmar:

It's one thing to handle the "heat problem" by making a CPU able to tolerate extreme heat, but that particular model went a bit too far

[15:36:18]

sid3windr:

I doubt most new cpu's cannot handle 57 degrees realworldtemperature

[15:36:18]

directhex|bsp:

70C is the usual maximum on most chips before they start throttling themselves

[15:36:30]

directhex|bsp:

which is 160F

[15:36:50]

Dagmar:

directhex: Right now, my X2 3800 is at 99F

[15:36:52]

directhex|bsp:

110C (230C) for graphics chips

[15:37:08]

setuid:

cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/temperature

[15:37:08]

setuid:

temperature: 48 C

[15:37:12]

setuid:

^ my Thinkpad's CPU

[15:37:26]

setuid:

It's mostly idling at 600Mhz right now

[15:37:50]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, which model of 3800+?

[15:38:03]

Dagmar:

I have no idea at the moment

[15:38:12]

directhex|bsp:

939 or am2?

[15:38:13]

Dagmar:

I got it after the price drop that made them only $150

[15:38:18]

Dagmar:

Oh it's a 939

[15:38:26]

Dagmar:

I dont' even have any AM2 chips here yet

[15:38:40]

directhex|bsp:

49–71C maximum rated temp

[15:38:52]

directhex|bsp:

http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=74

[15:38:57]

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[15:39:14]

directhex|bsp:

which would be 120–160F

[15:39:30]

Dagmar:

direct: So you think that the CPU will function fine at the _low end_ of the "maximum" rated temp?

[15:39:33]

directhex|bsp:

i've no idea what the lower bound is for, 50C is normal for a chip like that under load

[15:39:54]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, i've run chips in the mid 60s happily before

[15:40:01]

Dagmar:

No, under load the thing peaks at 112F (44C)

[15:40:25]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, be careful how much faith you put into mobo temperature sensors. i have the same cpu at home

[15:40:38]

Dagmar:

I have an IR meat thermometer to double-check things

[15:40:43]

setuid:

I wouldn't even know how to measure the temp of my AMD machine's procs

[15:40:55]

Dagmar:

setuid: There should be temp sensors _inside_ the CPU

[15:40:59]

directhex|bsp:

setuid, installing lm-sensors is a good start

[15:41:04]

setuid:

Dagmar, Accessible via what?

[15:41:07]

setuid:

directhex|bsp, No GUI on the box

[15:41:08]

Dagmar:

lm_sensors

[15:41:19]

directhex|bsp:

SerajewelKS, good. lm-sensors is a command line toolset

[15:41:21]

setuid:

Hrm, not sure if FreeBSD supports that... I'd have to check.

[15:41:31]

directhex|bsp:

oh. freebsd. minor detail, of course

[15:41:33]

Dagmar:

There's usually at least one in the CPU and one under it on the mainboard, and one near that

[15:41:36]

setuid:

My Linux machine is off at the moment... but I'll check.

[15:42:04]

** directhex|bsp wonders when he'll next be able to afford a new computer **

[15:45:14]

Dagmar:

Depends on how often a month you can stand to give plasma

[15:45:23]

setuid:

or semen

[15:45:33]

Dagmar:

Plasma is way more money

[15:45:42]

justinh:

and way less comeback

[15:45:46]

Dagmar:

Yep.

[15:45:59]

Dagmar:

No one shows up on your doorstep wanting college money 18 years after they got your plasma donation

[15:46:25]

justinh:

they allow that in the US too?

[15:46:37]

justinh:

just changed the law over here last year

[15:46:39]

Dagmar:

It's happened here.

[15:46:46]

justinh:

what?!

[15:47:05]

justinh:

kid from donated sperm going after 'parent' for money?

[15:47:06]

Dagmar:

There's been a child support suit over the result of a sperm donation

[15:47:14]

justinh:

:-O

[15:47:18]

Dagmar:

Actually other parent going after donor for child support money

[15:47:30]

siXy:

Dagmar: did they win?

[15:47:33]

Dagmar:

No idea.

[15:47:45]

justinh:

round em all up, but em in a field...

[15:47:52]

justinh:

s/but/put

[15:47:59]

Dagmar:

Bury 'em to the ankles and water em regularly.

[15:48:11]

justinh:

was gonna say "and bomb the bastards!"

[15:48:34]

Dagmar:

...but a combine is much more fun.

[15:48:43]

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[15:48:49]

justinh:

siXy: they won :(

[15:49:30]

siXy:

that takes the piss, frankly. and i wish i could say 'couldn't happen in the uk', but i'm no longer so sure about our legal system

[15:49:53]

justinh:

siXy: just be sure to stop giving it a wipe on the way out in future

[15:50:02]

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[15:50:12]

setuid:

They don't do that in the US

[15:50:31]

setuid:

You're required to sign a disclaimer that stops people from doing that

[15:50:33]

siXy:

ewww! :)

[15:51:17]

setuid:

People are sue-happy here in the US, because they're lazy and don't want to get a job

[15:51:26]

Dagmar:

WRong.

[15:51:47]

setuid:

Nope.

[15:51:50]

Dagmar:

Lawyers are sue-happy in the US because when they lose a pointless suit, the defense isn't allowed to kill and eat them.

[15:52:53]

Dagmar:

If the lawyers weren't so willing to encourage people into frivilous lawsuits, most people wouldn't even think of it as an option.

[15:53:11]

setuid:

If you can't innovate, LITIGATE!

[15:53:15]

justinh:

been injured from not looking where the hell you were walking?

[15:53:17]

directhex|bsp:

kill and eat them? have you seen how little meat there is on jack thompson?

[15:53:18]

Dagmar:

But hey, now we have class action lawsuits, where ambulance chasers don't even need to find an actual victim to go ahead and sue for damages.

[15:54:03]

Dagmar:

directhex: So what if he's got less meat than a Taco Bell fajita melt. It would have put a stop to his antics years ago.

[15:54:06]

siXy:

in the uk we have a wonderful think called "Vexacious Litigator" which means that whoever gets stuck with it is not allowed to faile any suits about anything without first seeking court approval

[15:54:27]

siXy:

s/faile/file/

[15:54:43]

setuid:

stuck with what?

[15:54:44]

Dagmar:

sixy: In the US we have that, it's called a pernicious litigator. For some insane reason, not too many lawyers seem keen on pursuing such things against their brethren

[15:55:15]

siXy:

ah, here its court-issued (like contempt of court) so all you need to do is piss the judge off too much

[15:56:06]

directhex|bsp:

siXy, JT attached mounds of gay porn to a court docket to illustrate what kind of things the (gay) opposing party gets up to, and is still considered "in good standing" by the florida bar!

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[15:56:28]

siXy:

whoa! thats scary...

[15:56:34]

Dagmar:

Far as I know, they have to have a special hearing to apply pernicious litigator to someone in the US

[15:56:45]

directhex|bsp:

he's facing another disbarment hearing, of course, but last time he just had to take a court-ordered sanity test, which he passed. the only lawyer in the us who needs a piece of paper to carry around to prove he's not criminally insane

[15:56:55]

Dagmar:

I think he pushed his luck too far with the last suit, tho'.

[15:57:03]

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[15:57:08]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, but teh gay!

[15:57:41]

Dagmar:

See where having someone just _eat_ them would make this so much simpler?

[15:58:04]

Dagmar:

Thompson has pressed many, MANY suits against video game companies that he stood no chance of winning.

[15:59:10]

Dagmar:

The only reason he gets away with it, is because he screams "IT IS 4 TEH CHILDRENS!" when the press comes 'round, and the press isn't really interested in the first place, so anyone who disputes that Jack will pretty much tell the press is for selling pornography directly to 7 year olds.

[15:59:38]

Dagmar:

Asshat lawyers aren't great news. Selling pornography to toddlers on the other hand, reporters just eat that up.

[16:00:01]

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[16:00:02]

siXy:

hmm, lawyer-cannabilism is sounding a better and better plan

[16:00:10]

directhex|bsp:

france has it right. awarding knighthoods to game developers for enhancing french culture

[16:00:21]

jamesd:

when the average toddler see's porn the only thing going through his mind is "LUNCH!"

[16:00:23]

setuid:

Well, at least you need to be _approved_ to take the Bar Exam... it's not like taking SATs or something like that. You go in front of a board of review and they have to approve you.

[16:00:35]

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[16:00:45]

Dagmar:

Problem there is that's all about responses to sane questions.

[16:01:14]

Dagmar:

The bar examiners throw reasonable questions at the applicant, to which reasonable answers aren't that hard to come up with even if you're crazy.

[16:02:06]

Dagmar:

Now, if the bar examiners were somehow able to just prod the applicant into motion to find out what kind of antics they'll get up to in an undirected, kind of free-form way, the class action monkeys and frivolous patent attorneys would never make it through the process.

[16:03:03]

Dagmar:

THey should at least roll a toy ambulance past them to see if they can resist the urge to get up and run after it.

[16:03:49]

directhex|bsp:

i've been playing videogames since age 5, and have yet to shoot or rape *anybody*!

[16:04:43]

setuid:

I had some PS2 game that was pretty gorey years ago, where you shoot people, then stop on their heads to smash them

[16:04:50]

setuid:

Resident Evil, I think it was

[16:04:50]

directhex|bsp:

i liked the exhaustive bbfc research which shows that children who play videogames are more disturbed (i.e. unhappy about) by violence in movies than those who don't

[16:05:07]

Dagmar:

I've yet to overrun a hamlet with an army of the undead, but I still have hopes.

[16:05:15]

setuid:

hahahah

[16:05:22]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, being short and having a nifty hat help for that

[16:05:37]

Dagmar:

Kentucky, at least, has areas that are backwater enough to consider that a serious threat.

[16:05:52]

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[16:06:28]

Dagmar:

There's a kid there that got out last year after serving a 3-year sentence for "making terroristic threats".

[16:07:01]

Dagmar:

His creative writing project for his English class, he wrote a supernatural thriller story about a suprise invasion of zombies that overran a public school.

[16:07:09]

Dagmar:

Not even _his_ school, or anything like it.

[16:07:32]

iamlindoro:

OT, but I want to point out that we in the US should stop staffing polling stations with octagenarians... Also, I want to know why in this day and age we cannot wrap our heads around my father and I having the same name and being registered to vote in the same precinct.

[16:07:35]

Dagmar:

I am a complete asshole, so I ran an ad in their local paper after I heard about it advertising my services as a master necromancer.

[16:07:45]

Dagmar:

You shouldn't throw kids in jail for doing their homework.

[16:08:02]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, my gcse english exam essay was about going postal on a school bus

[16:08:11]

justinh:

iamlindoro: people with no imagination shouldn't be allowed to vote! not _your_ fault though :P

[16:08:28]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, it was a rather messy story!

[16:08:40]

Dagmar:

direct: THey'd probably just shoot you for that here

[16:08:55]

iamlindoro:

justinh, It's a tradition back to me great great great great irish grand-pappy

[16:08:56]

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[16:09:18]

Dagmar:

I figured the worst that could happen from me posting that ad would be that $hickburg would call for my arrest, and then be stopped cold when it came to explaining why they wanted to extradite me.

[16:09:19]

directhex|bsp:

iamlindoro, it'd be nice if the mass media could understand that not only my wife, by late-fifties father, all play videogames

[16:09:22]

setuid:

You ever notice that it's _not_ the high-stress, urban areas that are the center of the violence in teens? Columbine, not Brooklyn, Never-heard-of-it Nebraska for mall shootouts, etc.

[16:09:23]

justinh:

not even I'm cruel enough to go & call a kid Justin

[16:09:48]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, how about "gideon"?

[16:09:55]

justinh:

roflmao

[16:10:07]

Dagmar:

setuid: No, it's the low-stress areas that attract press coverage.

[16:10:16]

Dagmar:

There's plenny of kids shooting each other in urban areas.

[16:10:27]

Dagmar:

Percy!

[16:10:28]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: rather that than "jeremy" or "julian"

[16:11:42]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, they shoot each other in limited quantities. "massacres" are infrequent

[16:11:53]

Dagmar:

No, they're just really crappy shots

[16:12:15]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, i learnt to shoot a gun at school

[16:12:15]

Dagmar:

...cuz when you hang out of a moving car with a semi-automatic rifle, you're looking to shoot a lot of people.

[16:12:29]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, only a .22 rifle, but still

[16:12:44]

Dagmar:

It's that they generally manage to only make 20% or fewer of their shots count that is the only reason they don't manage to reach "massacre" status

[16:13:05]

Dagmar:

That and in these areas, anyone going on a massacre gets to deal with the fact that every fifth person is armed.

[16:13:33]

Dagmar:

People who shoot back are what stops massacres.

[16:14:22]

Dagmar:

Little signs saying "We'll put you in prison for five years for carrying a pocket knife" don't do shit.

[16:15:06]

directhex|bsp:

consider how unhinged the average person is. you'd give him, and everyone stupider, a gun? "just in case"?

[16:15:18]

Dagmar:

Yes, I would.

[16:15:47]

Dagmar:

...cuz they'll get out of the gene pool that much more quickly.

[16:16:07]

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[16:16:10]

directhex|bsp:

don't forget mutated anthrax for duck huntin'

[16:16:23]

Dagmar:

Most people would only arm the people who want to carry a handgun tho.

[16:17:07]

Dagmar:

Either would be a million times better than the "only person in ten miles with a lethal weapon is the wackjob" scenario.

[16:20:06]

Dagmar:

But hey, if normal people were usually armed, then the governments might actually have something to fear.

[16:20:14]

Dagmar:

...and they can't have that.

[16:20:53]

justinh:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43014

[16:24:35]

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[16:25:06]

setuid:

I love this one: http://blog.gnu-designs.com/fourth-amendment-sacked

[16:25:16]

setuid:

The title says it all :D

[16:25:53]

** justinh has no idea (or desire to know) what the 4th amendment is **

[16:26:12]

iamlindoro:

protection against Unlawful search and seizure

[16:26:25]

directhex|bsp:

that's a neat idea

[16:26:25]

setuid:

justinh: Not from the US?

[16:26:33]

directhex|bsp:

hey, justinh, reckon we could use one of them?

[16:26:50]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, or should we try for fair use first?

[16:26:52]

iamlindoro:

(although I guess you said you had no desire to know, sorry) :)

[16:26:53]

justinh:

don't see it makes any difference in the US, so why would it here?

[16:27:12]

setuid:

In the US, they just extended the "Search Incident to Arrest" to allow cops to take your cellphone/PDA, and examine its contents, contacts, notes, memos, etc. for anything they can charge you with.

[16:27:13]

Dagmar:

If you were wondering how it was that Bush's people could so effectively identify and prevent the "dissenting voices" from getting into *any* of his "Open" Town Hall meetings, that's why.

[16:27:38]

Dagmar:

you'll just have to wait 30 years to have the proof declassified, and that's if Cheney didn't have it all burned.

[16:27:48]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, "if"

[16:27:51]

setuid:

Dagmar, In 30 years, Bush will still be president.

[16:28:06]

Dagmar:

setuid: No, I think it's a safe bet he'll have died of old age by then

[16:28:15]

setuid:

Not to worry, he's going to be suspending this "circus" of elections this year, due to the War in Iran, and implementing Martial Law to control domestic dissent.

[16:28:43]

justinh:

at least you lot all have guns

[16:28:44]

Dagmar:

...at which point a large body of actual Americans will descend upon Washington DC to exercise their right to bear arms.

[16:28:46]

setuid:

He's already been ramping up hundreds of FEMA detention camps in the US. All fully stocked, patrolled by armed guards, and 100% empty.

[16:29:02]

setuid:

justinh, They've been trying to take the guns back for years.

[16:29:15]

justinh:

over your dead bodies :)

[16:29:32]

setuid:

Exactly

[16:29:39]

setuid:

REX 84 is freaking scary

[16:29:45]

Dagmar:

Tehre's more of us than there are of "them"

[16:30:19]

setuid:

11 million people descended on their state capitols to protest the War in Iraq when it started, and Bush brushed it off, calling it a "focus group".

[16:30:28]

setuid:

We'll need to polarize a LOT more than that, to make a difference

[16:30:38]

justinh:

setuid: not if it's violent

[16:30:53]

Dagmar:

You don't ignore 11 million people firing handguns at you

[16:30:57]

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[16:30:59]

setuid:

justinh, They already have tech to stop that (the sub-cutaneous microwave "crowd control" devices and such)

[16:31:20]

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[16:31:29]

justinh:

you guys not heard of Faraday cages? ;)

[16:31:30]

directhex|bsp:

violence is fun! would you risk being shot to death for the possible chance of getting rid of your dictatorship, when shutting up and staying home guarantees the ability to order pizza whilst the news is on?

[16:31:40]

Dagmar:

Considering the "lazy american" world view going 'round, if those "lazy americans" actually went otu into the streets over something, teh whole world would know it's serious

[16:31:48]

setuid:

directhex|bsp, hahahaha

[16:31:53]

setuid:

directhex|bsp, that's exactly the quagmire

[16:32:16]

setuid:

"It's someone else's problem, now shut up, American Idol is on!"

[16:32:39]

justinh:

blat out the tv :)

[16:32:46]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, as south park so eloquently put it, "the rest of the world hates america because you don't know why the rest of the world hate you!" ;)

[16:33:28]

Dagmar:

The rest of the world hates america because they're kept just as ignorant by their governements as the US gov't keeps it's people.

[16:33:36]

justinh:

I wouldn't take a bullet to get rid of Gordon Brown, or Blair before him. That might be why I'm still here

[16:34:16]

Dagmar:

justinh: Yeah, but those guys aren't basically ordering a lot of people to their deaths on a daily basis

[16:34:23]

Dagmar:

Brown and Blair are practically saints compared to the shit Bush has been pulling

[16:34:37]

setuid:

768 separate laws broken, as I recall...

[16:35:27]

setuid:

bushlies.net is actually pretty informative on the matter (but a horrible website)

[16:36:06]

directhex|bsp:

the rest of the world hates america because of a condescending, arrogant, "we rule the world and know best" attitude not only at government level, but parroted by the populace these days

[16:36:15]

setuid:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/ . . . _challenged/

[16:36:31]

setuid:

Right, we are NOT the World Police

[16:37:02]

Dagmar:

directhex: They're idiots because they don't know the difference between a government out of control and it's people.

[16:37:07]

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[16:37:11]

Dagmar:

...or rather, the people under it's thumb.

[16:37:47]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, for people in most nations, the level of nationalism ni american is creepy at best, terrifying at worst. nowhere else is like it

[16:38:02]

Dagmar:

"ni"

[16:38:09]

Dagmar:

?

[16:38:13]

directhex|bsp:

in

[16:38:13]

justinh:

NI !

[16:38:32]

directhex|bsp:

ecki ecki ecki phtang niwop iwoo!

[16:38:33]

Dagmar:

directhex: Again, ignorance in action

[16:38:43]

psycodad:

i am still trying to rip my dvds with mythdvd and while they're playing fine i get the "Error: DVDPerfectThread read failed" error on all of them earlier or later.. what could be causing this ?

[16:38:53]

Dagmar:

We don't even come _close_ to the South Koreans in that respect

[16:39:31]

Dagmar:

...and I do mean the South Koreans, not the North Koreans.

[16:39:39]

Dagmar:

SK is just nice about it.

[16:39:48]

directhex|bsp:

they don't claim dominion over the earth!

[16:39:55]

Dagmar:

Neither do US citizens

[16:40:22]

Dagmar:

the US Gov't, on the other hand, at the moment has no such clue.

[16:40:58]

Dagmar:

The gov't here is FAR from doing the will of it's people.

[16:41:41]

Dagmar:

If they would stop watching Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN, they'd figure that out.

[16:42:50]

setuid:

SK has only what... 2 million soldiers, all of them with a boiling hatred of Americans?

[16:42:56]

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[16:43:15]

Dagmar:

I think you're getting North Korea and South Korea mixed up

[16:43:24]

directhex|bsp:

he is

[16:43:33]

Dagmar:

North Korea is the land of nutjobs

[16:43:49]

setuid:

DPRK hates us as well, but SK is where the angry militia is

[16:43:50]

Dagmar:

South Korea is practically the technology king of it's little part of the world.

[16:44:29]

setuid:

Tae-Po Dong missiles?

[16:44:36]

setuid:

Wait, that's Japan

[16:44:37]

Dagmar:

Strangely, no one blames North Korean citizens for what it's government does.

[16:45:04]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, its government doesn't do much other than wave flags

[16:45:17]

Dagmar:

'cuz they have to borrow the flags.

[16:45:42]

setuid:

It was interesting that it was more important to depose a powerless dictator in a foreign country, one who never threatened the US at all... and turned our backs on an insane dictator in DPRK, who openly was saying "Fuck off, America, I will nuke you! I hates j000!" and kicked out the IEMA (or whatever it's called)

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[16:46:36]

directhex|bsp:

setuid, it was interesting that it was important to train islamic terrorists to depose teh red menace of d00mz

[16:46:40]

Dagmar:

setuid: They needed an excuse to justify pillaging Iraq.

[16:46:50]

setuid:

Dagmar, of course

[16:47:00]

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[16:47:04]

setuid:

"teh red menace of d00mz" hHhAhahAhAHha

[16:47:09]

setuid:

That'd make a great t-shirt

[16:47:21]

directhex|bsp:

personally i'm amazed that cubans don't hate america, considering the shit they put up with

[16:47:29]

setuid:

"ph3er me, I am teh red menace of D00Mz!"

[16:47:45]

Dagmar:

Probably because aside from embargos, we don't bother them

[16:47:52]

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[16:47:55]

setuid:

directhex|bsp, Well, we almost did a 9/11 on Cuba decades ago... look up "Operation Northwoods"

[16:48:04]

setuid:

It's exactly the 9/11 scenario, planned by the US against Cuba

[16:48:06]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, the embargo gets tighter and tighter though

[16:48:30]

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[16:48:30]

setuid:

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=92662

[16:48:31]

setuid:

There you go

[16:48:50]

setuid:

Note the date on that news article... 4 months _before_ 9/11 occurred

[16:48:57]

setuid:

Scary and prophetic

[16:49:01]

directhex|bsp:

setuid, i'm aware of it. i'm also amused at the delightfully playground respnses to such things – e.g. when the us erects an enormous billboard at their embassy to tell people to defect, cuba erects one huge black flag in front of the billboard for every victim of that operation

[16:49:21]

setuid:

hahaahhaha

[16:49:41]

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[16:50:13]

Dagmar:

As long as they're just doing silly crap, things are relatively okay

[16:50:46]

Dagmar:

Posing and posturing is fine, it's what everyone expects their gov'ts are there to do.

[16:50:48]

setuid:

You mean other than destroying the economy, the housing market, healthcare and the empoyment situation?

[16:51:04]

Dagmar:

It's when they get confused and decide to do things on their own that gov'ts wind up going off the rails

[16:51:25]

justinh:

incoming!

[16:51:32]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, they're remarkably zen in the face of provocation. the us changes the law so all cuban trademarks are null (allowing companies to sell substandard products under cuban brand names in the us), castro comments he's thinking of opening a coca cola factory

[16:51:33]

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[16:51:53]

Dagmar:

directhex: See, that I think would be pretty awesome

[16:52:06]

Hendrik:

i've a problem with my installation of mythtv

[16:52:15]

Hendrik:

after using make, i get a message "cannot find -lqt-mt"; collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

[16:52:17]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, it's hard not to admire a government which can fight with *irony* rather than icbms

[16:52:31]

directhex|bsp:

Hendrik, you need multithreaded qt3 development libraries

[16:52:50]

Hendrik:

installed them before

[16:52:53]

Dagmar:

directhex: More importantly, irony doesn't get civvies killed

[16:53:03]

directhex|bsp:

Hendrik, not properly

[16:53:20]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, neither does posturing, but one is infinitely "cooler" than t'other

[16:53:49]

Hendrik:

package qt3-devel, right?

[16:54:34]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, some canadian ministers tried to get a bill enacted which was essentially the same as the horrid helms-burton anti-cuban act, but for taking sanctions against america for any transgressions hundreds of years back

[16:54:46]

directhex|bsp:

Hendrik, no idea. that's distro dependent

[16:55:23]

Hendrik:

okay. but i think it's the right package

[16:55:38]

directhex|bsp:

Dagmar, "The 1996 bill responded by calling for descendants of United Empire Loyalists who fled the American Revolution to be able to reclaim land and property that was confiscated by the American government. The bill would have also allowed the Canadian government to exclude corporate officers, or controlling shareholders of companies that possess property formerly owned by Loyalists, as well as the spouse and minor child of such

[16:55:38]

directhex|bsp:

persons from entering Canada"

[16:55:51]

Hendrik:

there is a description: files and libraries

[16:56:13]

Hendrik:

i've opensuse 10.3

[16:58:42]

directhex|bsp:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Opensuse_10.3

[16:59:12]

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[16:59:42]

Hendrik:

oh. i was blind. thank you ;)

[16:59:47]

Hendrik:

i'll try it now

[17:00:05]

iamlindoro:

An Obama presidency would probably be the best thing to happen to US-Cuban relations in 40 years

[17:00:09]

directhex|bsp:

i don't think anyone in here uses suse for myth

[17:00:17]

directhex|bsp:

iamlindoro, reckon so

[17:00:19]

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[17:00:26]

iamlindoro:

Since he has every intention of at least *speaking* to Castro directly

[17:00:28]

directhex|bsp:

iamlindoro, and the best thing to happen to us-everyoneelse relations for 7

[17:00:31]

Hendrik:

which system would you use?

[17:00:39]

iamlindoro:

directhex|bsp, Damn straight!

[17:01:16]

iamlindoro:

directhex|bsp, And I can stop going to EU countries and telling everyone I'm French ;) (My mom is a French citizen)

[17:01:35]

directhex|bsp:

iamlindoro, whatever next, i might be able to enter the US without being treated like a criminal!

[17:01:55]

directhex|bsp:

iamlindoro, i still need to sort out persona non grata status...

[17:02:01]

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[17:29:14]

CCFL_Man2:

the one girl in the nutrisystem commercial, i found her on myspace

[17:31:26]

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[17:35:29]

jamesd:

damm when 10gigE comes to the home.. the reason will be mythtv... moving 150GB of recordings around takes a long time even at 30–40MB/s

[17:35:50]

Dagmar:

hehehe yeah

[17:40:23]

Hoxzer:

:9

[17:40:54]

CCFL_Man2:

it's already at the home

[17:41:04]

CCFL_Man2:

just buy the switches and nics

[17:42:01]

jamesd:

CCFL_Man2, sure go ahead.. and write some major checks... 10gigE cards are about $2000 each... so 2 direct connected cards would run you 4k, and switch is 10 times that much...

[17:42:25]

CCFL_Man2:

jamesd: save up :P

[17:42:42]

jamesd:

i'm still saving up for the 42" lcd tv...

[17:42:47]

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[17:42:52]

GreyFoxx:

jamesd: Yeah, your HD speed is the biggest killer

[17:42:59]

GreyFoxx:

sucks when moving a couple TB around

[17:43:02]

GreyFoxx:

hours and hours

[17:43:53]

CCFL_Man2:

GreyFoxx: i'm an official c bander

[17:44:01]

jamesd:

GreyFoxx, well the 4x 500GB drives in a raidz, and burst to over 150MB/s so it can fill gigE .. the recieving end is what is slowing it down... only 30–50MB/s

[17:44:03]

CCFL_Man2:

and boy is it different from ku band

[17:45:27]

CCFL_Man2:

smaller dishes are hard to align, skew and focal depth are super super important, and weather and adjacent satellites can rain on your party

[17:45:34]

GreyFoxx:

CCFL_Man2: oh? Are you getting the feed into your mythbox now ?

[17:45:49]

CCFL_Man2:

not yet, just on my two irds

[17:45:57]

Dagmar:

jamesd: Don't even mention "burst" speeds

[17:46:15]

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[17:46:17]

Dagmar:

They are completely separate from what you're doing when you're doing a bulk data transfer and will never be useful numbers.

[17:46:21]

** CCFL_Man2 bursts out in song and dance **

[17:47:11]

CCFL_Man2:

GreyFoxx: i aligned it via finding a signal on ku band

[17:48:16]

jamesd:

Dagmar, these are realistic burst speeds not what the manufacturor claims.. these drives give 50MB/s each... i have 4.. but one is parity... so 150MB/s is not beyond its specs.

[17:48:36]

CCFL_Man2:

GreyFoxx: i sduggest getting a 240cm dish

[17:48:37]

Dagmar:

No they're not "realistic burst" speeds.

[17:48:45]

CCFL_Man2:

180cm is touchy

[17:48:49]

Dagmar:

There is no such thing once you're talking about a data transfer larger than the size of the cache RAM on the drive.

[17:49:53]

Dagmar:

The only thing that matters for what you're doing is _sustained throughput rates_

[17:50:01]

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[18:00:56]

cmug:

Hi. I am trying to setup SPDIF output on my nforce2. Currently TV sounds work, but mythmusic and mythvideo do not. I have been trying all kinds of magic commands to the .asoundrc file but no luck with anything. Best errors I have gotten are "Requestiong 44.100 but got 48.000Hz" when using /dev/dsp and "Invalid parameter for device /dev/adsp" when using /dev/adsp. Anybody with similar experience, or ideas ?

[18:01:31]

cmug:

also using ALSA:spdif as the output gives the 44.1/48.0 error

[18:02:01]

Dagmar:

So, the one thing you can be pretty sure of at this point is that your card does not do 44.1Khz output.

[18:02:24]

cmug:

Ok, I need to do upsampling to 48 then?

[18:02:37]

Dagmar:

If you want, you know, sound.

[18:02:46]

cmug:

yeah that would be nice

[18:02:52]

Dagmar:

Well there you go. :)

[18:03:06]

cmug:

and its .asoundrc where I somehow do this?

[18:03:30]

Dagmar:

For this you'd probably be better off wedging the "whatever" you're going to do into /etc/asoundrc

[18:03:47]

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[18:03:52]

cmug:

What does wedge mean :-)

[18:04:03]

Dagmar:

Shove, put, stick, stuff, place.

[18:04:14]

cmug:

ok, I'll do that then. Thanks

[18:04:33]

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[18:04:38]

jarle:

I have found myself getting a lot of channels where mplexid and serviceid both are zero. I suspect these channels are added to the db by mythfilldatabase. Will not mythfilldatabase work if the xmltv grabber is configured to grab more channels than found in myths channel list?

[18:04:45]

Dagmar:

It's a system-wide change you're needing to make, so it should go into a file with system-wide control.

[18:05:14]

cmug:

Dagmar, yeah i'll put it to /etc/asoundrc

[18:07:03]

unagi:

does anyone know where you configure a tv tuner to be /dev/video0?

[18:15:11]

unagi:

WARNING: frontend type (ATSC) is not compatible with requested tuning type (OFDM)?

[18:15:12]

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[18:17:28]

sebrock:

Apple remote not working under OS X Leopard with MythTV? Any solution for that?

[18:18:28]

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[18:19:40]

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[18:25:31]

iamlindoro:

unagi, ATSC tuners aren't /dev/video devices, they're /dev/dvb devices

[18:25:54]

unagi:

tv time is looking for something in /dev/video0

[18:26:18]

iamlindoro:

unagi, you're out of luck if your card is non-analog or doesn't have analog mode, then

[18:26:25]

unagi:

its bot

[18:26:31]

unagi:

oth

[18:26:32]

unagi:

both

[18:26:42]

iamlindoro:

unagi, as I recall your card only has digital drivers right now

[18:26:59]

iamlindoro:

You're the one with the HP Expresscard, yes?

[18:27:07]

unagi:

yes

[18:27:15]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Is that documented in the wiki?

[18:27:36]

iamlindoro:

Then, as we discussed at length yesterday, The experimental drivers for the card are digital-only

[18:27:40]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, Which?

[18:27:53]

Dagmar:

That the little expresscard tuner doens't have support for analog tuning

[18:28:02]

unagi:

thats fine, so why do i get the error

[18:28:19]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, I was explaining it to him yesterday... even linked him to the linuxtv wiki page referencing it

[18:28:39]

unagi:

and, i have made progress

[18:28:41]

unagi:

read the wiki

[18:28:42]

unagi:

blah blah

[18:28:48]

Dagmar:

Considering I can't see what he's typing, I suspect this is the same jerk that called me a dick last night for telling him that if his card didn't show up in lspci output then either it's broken or his kernel is.

[18:28:50]

unagi:

so once again

[18:28:56]

unagi:

given that its digital only

[18:28:58]

Dagmar:

So, good luck on that

[18:29:00]

unagi:

why am i geting the error

[18:29:09]

unagi:

and you were wrong in both cases dagmar

[18:29:11]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, Ah ;) Yes, very likely... was dangerously close to an /ignor myself yesterday morning

[18:29:11]

unagi:

get over ity

[18:29:14]

unagi:

stop being a woman

[18:29:26]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, for what it's worth his manners haven't improved

[18:29:32]

unagi:

my manenrs are fine

[18:29:34]

unagi:

dagmar is a dick

[18:29:41]

Dagmar:

Yeah, he's going to stay in the ignore list for some time I think

[18:30:05]

Dagmar:

Usually I just let the 3-day timer expire. We'll see how quick he makes it back in there

[18:30:14]

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[18:30:24]

unagi:

so yea....if you dont know what the error means then just say you dont know

[18:30:34]

unagi:

thats acceptable too

[18:30:38]

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[18:30:47]

Dagmar:

He musta spent an hour dragging someone else over the coals about things to do with the cx88 driver part of it that wasn't about to affect anything

[18:30:58]

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[18:31:15]

** unagi plays a violin **

[18:32:28]

directhex:

tvtime is analog only

[18:32:29]

SerajewelKS:

i'd say something about that but i know how it'd be received, so...

[18:32:31]

iamlindoro:

unagi, In spite of knowing what your problem is *and* how to fix it, I wouldn't (and won't) give you the smallest *iota* of help when you're rude to both Dagmar and myself, both of whom were helping people here lonnnng before you showed up.

[18:32:49]

iamlindoro:

And with that, best of luck with your card, etc., etc., etc.

[18:32:51]

amrit|zzz is now known as amrit|wrk

[18:33:07]

unagi:

what does how i converse with dagmar have to do with anything

[18:33:16]

unagi:

you dont know anything about my quarrel with him

[18:33:32]

unagi:

dagmar is a rude person

[18:33:36]

unagi:

much like you were yesterday

[18:33:43]

unagi:

if you dont know the answer just say i dont know

[18:33:48]

unagi:

no need to drag it on and on

[18:33:50]

directhex:

unagi, act like a prick when people try to help you, people are liable not to want to help you. and you've been told the answer to your question twice since i got on

[18:34:12]

unagi:

i havent acted like a prick in my opinion

[18:34:18]

SerajewelKS:

iamlindoro: not to throw gas on the fire, but i had a short conversation with Dagmar last night too, and it didn't go much better. i dunno if he was in a bad mood or what. i'll spare you the details unless you want them.

[18:34:22]

directhex:

then your opinion is broken

[18:34:28]

unagi:

is it?

[18:34:32]

unagi:

all i did was ask a question

[18:34:35]

unagi:

and instantly i got attitude

[18:34:38]

unagi:

once again from dagmar

[18:34:48]

unagi:

i say as i did yesterday he should be banned if he is going to speak with people that way

[18:35:01]

SerajewelKS:

all i can suggest is that people /ignore and move on, it's not worth the drama

[18:35:02]

unagi:

just because i still have hard feelings about how he was last night doesnt make me a prick

[18:35:14]

unagi:

WARNING: frontend type (ATSC) is not compatible with requested tuning type (OFDM) what is ofdm mode?

[18:35:30]

[nrx]:

is it possible to run the scan channels.. from cli remotely?

[18:35:45]

Dagmar:

[nrx]: You actually don't have to do it from CLI remotely

[18:35:57]

Dagmar:

I'm assuming you're using a Windows machine locally, right?

[18:35:58]

iamlindoro:

[nrx], not using myth's functionality, but using using the dvb-tools can generate a channels.conf

[18:36:22]

[nrx]:

well, i meant remotely via ssh :)

[18:36:29]

[nrx]:

just so i don't have to go thru to the next room and do it ;P

[18:36:30]

[nrx]:

lol

[18:36:36]

directhex:

you can run gui apps via ssh

[18:36:41]

Dagmar:

[nrx]: Okay, so you're in better shape than most people

[18:36:50]

[nrx]:

oh, mine's is fully running :)

[18:37:00]

[nrx]:

just i did a rescan last night before bed.. and ended up with only receiving 1 channel lol

[18:37:07]

Dagmar:

Edit the sshd_config on your Myth box and uncomment and change the bit that says X11Forwarding to "yes".

[18:37:12]

Dagmar:

Then restart your sshd using the init script

[18:37:27]

Dagmar:

From the machine you're on, run `ssh -X hostname` to make the connection.

[18:37:41]

unagi:

does anyone know what ofdm is?

[18:37:48]

[nrx]:

i think i may have explained this wrong

[18:37:55]

Dagmar:

You can then run xterm or mythtv-setup or whatever you like, and the display will automatically be forwarded to your workstation over the ssh tunnel.

[18:38:22]

Dagmar:

So long as you're _not trying to watch live video_ over the tunnel (which gets ugly, fast) it'll work fine

[18:38:29]

[nrx]:

I'm on a windows box just now. SSH remotely to the mythtv box. I want to have the mythtv box rescan for channels.. but be able to issue a command that will do while i'm ssh'd in

[18:38:37]

Dagmar:

Don't let the fact that you're not sitting in front of the machine itself prevent you using gui apps

[18:38:53]

Dagmar:

[nrx]: OKay this is why I asked aobut Windows. Google "Cygwin/X"

[18:39:07]

Dagmar:

You can actually do a startx on the Win32 box to start a server there and use PuTTY for the tunneling.

[18:39:22]

Dagmar:

I do this _at the office_ occasionally to get a display from home

[18:39:32]

[nrx]:

okay, so you can only rescan channels by using the mythtv's backend configuration gui?

[18:39:41]

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[18:39:43]

Dagmar:

It makes Evolution pretty boggy over that distance, but it's usable

[18:39:50]

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[18:40:18]

Dagmar:

No you can generate the channels configuration using the dvb-tools like iamlindoro said

[18:40:41]

iamlindoro:

that said, won't be able to import it without the gui for mythtv-setup

[18:40:42]

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[18:40:47]

Dagmar:

Tehre's just not a lot of point in figuring out a whole new set of things to use if the problem keeping you from using the one you know is solved by simple X tunneling

[18:40:47]

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[18:41:02]

[nrx]:

k, thanks.

[18:41:15]

[nrx]:

can you tell me where it keeps it's list of channels/frequencies?

[18:42:50]

iamlindoro:

If you mean mythtv, it's all in the source code, not in configuration files

[18:42:51]

Dagmar:

No idea. I don't have a digital tuner yet

[18:42:54]

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[18:43:04]

SerajewelKS:

for some reason, vnc has always worked better for me than X tunneling, sometimes even if the boxen are on the same lan.

[18:43:06]

iamlindoro:

And if you mean the scan results, they're in the database

[18:43:08]

[nrx]:

okies

[18:43:38]

SerajewelKS:

at least speed-wise, vnc wins most of the time. X tunneling is nice because it integrates windows with your desktop, something i miss when using vnc.

[18:44:48]

CCFL_Man2:

my focas depth is spot on

[18:44:53]

CCFL_Man2:

focal

[18:45:12]

CCFL_Man2:

just about 682cm

[18:45:18]

Dagmar:

Focal depth for what?

[18:45:34]

Dagmar:

A projector?

[18:45:38]

iamlindoro:

For equipment none of us own/want/care about ;)

[18:45:44]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: my feedhorn on my c band dish

[18:45:54]

Dagmar:

Heh

[18:46:12]

[nrx]:

i've got an issue with some channels. For instance.. BBC1, 2, 3 etc all view fine. Channel 4, ITV2, ITV3 etc don't. The sound is clear and fine, but the image is screwed. Someone suggest it could be to do with video drivers. If I record one of the screwey channels.. the recording is fine (I can view it on another box) any suggestions?

[18:46:13]

CCFL_Man2:

i adjusted it for the strongest signal

[18:46:16]

Dagmar:

Well, considering that you're focusing on an object a few thousand miles away, that's not really a huge deal so long as it's not _wildly_ off the mark

[18:46:59]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: thing is though, i get macroblocks and pixels every now and then with cloudy, rainy weather

[18:47:20]

Dagmar:

That's normal

[18:47:42]

Dagmar:

Water and satellites don't get along well

[18:48:20]

CCFL_Man2:

how do the cable headends maintain a signal strong enough to produce a artifact free picture?

[18:48:36]

CCFL_Man2:

huge 12' dishes?

[18:48:55]

Dagmar:

Using big-ass dishes, monster amps, redundant tuners, and expensive technicians to calibrate equipment in _fixed_ locations

[18:49:22]

CCFL_Man2:

that explains it

[18:49:46]

CCFL_Man2:

though my dish is stationary

[18:49:57]

Dagmar:

It doesn't turn at all?

[18:50:06]

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[18:50:13]

CCFL_Man2:

nope

[18:50:24]

Dagmar:

So if it were considerably bigger, you'd have less issue

[18:50:31]

iamlindoro:

CCFL_Man2, There also exists a private fiber network that distributes video between headends... costs tens of thousands of dollars per month to have access to... the networks use it as their backup, though... can't recall for the life of me what it's called, though

[18:50:32]

CCFL_Man2:

to adjust azimuth you need to turn the whole thing

[18:50:32]

Dagmar:

It would also scare the neighbors tho. heh

[18:50:50]

Dagmar:

So it _does_ turn then

[18:50:58]

Dagmar:

Dishes at cable companies _do not move_ at all

[18:51:11]

Dagmar:

They are pointed at the satellites they're going to listen to and practically nailed into place

[18:51:17]

CCFL_Man2:

iamlindoro: ahh, leased line circuits i assume?

[18:51:27]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: thats how mine is set up

[18:51:50]

iamlindoro:

CCFL_Man2, Nope, nothing that slow... This is *literal* dedicated fiber that doesn't use telco infrastructure

[18:52:02]

CCFL_Man2:

iamlindoro: ahh, i see

[18:52:30]

CCFL_Man2:

most point to point links are super expensive

[18:53:14]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: also, my signal quality bounces up and down from 45 to 50 percent, i hear that might be an adjacent satellite causing interfearence

[18:53:41]

iamlindoro:

Yup... I think that there are access points throughout the states, but just a very few of them... the distribution from that point is via internet... so you wouldn't use it for, say, a news feed, but you *would* if you were a small network affiliate, had a sat problem and needed to get this weeks "lost."

[18:54:02]

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[18:54:06]

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[18:54:09]

CCFL_Man2:

ahh, i see

[18:54:27]

fedorared:

Yes, if Lost gets lost we have an emergency

[18:54:40]

CCFL_Man2:

heh

[18:54:48]

Dagmar:

'cuz you wouldn't want quality programming to take oevr

[18:55:12]

Dagmar:

Lost proves that TV can get along fine without writers.

[18:55:51]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: though i hear that 6ft dishes need to be aligned spot on to maintain a constant lock, unlike 8ft or larger

[18:56:05]

Dagmar:

Yes.

[18:56:21]

Dagmar:

I don't know about that specific issue, but the smaller a dish is, the more accurately it has to be pointed

[18:56:27]

[nrx]:

i've got an issue with some channels. For instance.. BBC1, 2, 3 etc all view fine. Channel 4, ITV2, ITV3 etc don't. The sound is clear and fine, but the image is screwed. Someone suggest it could be to do with video drivers. If I record one of the screwey channels.. the recording is fine (I can view it on another box) any suggestions?

[18:56:36]

CCFL_Man2:

ahh, ok

[18:57:57]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: i had a ku lnb on there and aligned it to get the strongest signal on the pentagon channel, but it might have to be peaked for c band?

[18:58:08]

CCFL_Man2:

even though the ku was nice and strong?

[18:58:18]

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[18:58:40]

Dagmar:

if you mean it might help if it were amplifying the frequency band you were trying to tune in, instead of possibly attenuating the signal, yes

[19:01:01]

CCFL_Man2:

well, i mean that if i aligned the dish for a strongest ku signal i could possibly get, would it have to be realigned for c band?

[19:01:10]

CCFL_Man2:

if it's the same bird

[19:01:22]

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[19:01:24]

Dagmar:

Why would you?

[19:01:24]

CCFL_Man2:

AMC1 has both c and ku transponders

[19:01:40]

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[19:01:40]

Dagmar:

The satellite, from the perspective where you're at, is about the size of a grain of sand.

[19:01:51]

ARfdee:

ih friends

[19:02:00]

Dagmar:

Yer not going to see any significant difference from pointing a picometer left or right

[19:02:01]

ARfdee:

where do you change the osd menu in setup?

[19:02:32]

ARfdee:

isn't it somewhere under appearance?

[19:02:52]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: so basically, if i can see ku nice and strong, then it's already spot on for c band reception of the same bird?

[19:02:58]

Dagmar:

Yeah

[19:03:17]

CCFL_Man2:

ahh

[19:03:27]

CCFL_Man2:

i might have to get an 8 footer

[19:04:07]

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[19:04:39]

CCFL_Man2:

but yeah, a moving dish might scare the neighbors

[19:04:43]

CCFL_Man2:

haha

[19:04:52]

ARfdee:

Dagmar: can you answer my q?

[19:05:51]

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[19:06:18]

CCFL_Man2:

my local state government channel uses a 7 or 9 ft dish to receive DW-TV

[19:06:33]

CCFL_Man2:

and a cal amp lnb

[19:06:36]

Dagmar:

THat would require me to care which menu item it's under.

[19:06:46]

CCFL_Man2:

i hear cal amp lnbs just kick ass

[19:06:48]

ARfdee:

Dagmar: oh, you'd rather be a jerk

[19:06:50]

ARfdee:

ok

[19:06:54]

ARfdee:

you should have just said that

[19:06:57]

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[19:07:12]

Dagmar:

I have _long_ since given up expecting the setup menus to be anything other than just something you iterately flip through until you stumble upon what you were looking for.

[19:07:23]

fysa:

Dagmar has _long_ been a jerk. ;)

[19:07:26]

Dagmar:

Arfdee: Piss off then

[19:07:40]

Dagmar:

I'm an asshole because I don't care which meny something is under?

[19:07:42]

Dagmar:

Puh-lease.

[19:07:48]

Dagmar:

s/meny/menu/;

[19:07:59]

fysa:

haha, no, you're an asshole because you are. nothing wrong with that.

[19:08:00]

[nrx]:

of course

[19:08:00]

[nrx]:

lol

[19:08:17]

Puhi:

what?

[19:08:30]

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[19:08:38]

Puhi:

oh, "please"

[19:08:45]

fysa:

haha

[19:08:48]

CCFL_Man2:

though Dagmar knows his shit, and doesn't mind helping if the helpee will actually listen to what he says

[19:09:02]

fysa:

he's a man on the edge.

[19:09:08]

DGnome:

assholes aside, browse through the menus and learn to find stuff on your own

[19:09:16]

Dagmar:

In this case, _demanding_ an answer and getting pissed off because I don't have it because I don't actually care which menu the OSD setting is under is just ludicrous.

[19:09:29]

CCFL_Man2:

DGnome: i agree

[19:09:30]

fysa:

obviously.

[19:09:33]

Dagmar:

Calling me an asshole over it is beyond the pale.

[19:09:38]

fysa:

bullshit.

[19:09:48]

fysa:

taking it personally is beyond the pale.

[19:09:49]

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[19:09:53]

Puhi:

i sense much anger here my young jedi.

[19:10:02]

fysa:

I'm laughing.

[19:10:13]

Dagmar:

No, it's a matter of I'm not going to tolerate nubs verbally abusing helpers when they don't get what they want

[19:10:21]

CCFL_Man2:

Puhi: i think someone farted and thats what you sense

[19:10:31]

fysa:

because every now and then I peek in here and see Dagmar assaulting the .. nubs. it's enjoyable because he has zero tolerance.

[19:10:44]

Puhi:

i was wondering where this fog came

[19:10:54]

Dagmar:

I mean, if you want to see something that will make the number of people trying to help just evaporate, let that sort of madness become the standard and watch how few people will be willing to subject themselves to it.

[19:11:05]

iamlindoro:

Well, first thing's first, the questioner left the room, like, *minutes* ago

[19:11:07]

CCFL_Man2:

Puhi: thats what it was

[19:11:10]

fysa:

I'm not complaining, I'm just calling it like I see it.

[19:11:25]

iamlindoro:

So let's all just get to having pillow fights and gossiping about boys

[19:11:27]

fysa:

embrace it.

[19:11:47]

CCFL_Man2:

ok!

[19:11:51]

Dagmar:

fysa: There'd be a lot less of it if there weren't so many newbs who think it's okay to bitch at someone they want help from

[19:12:44]

Dagmar:

Some of these guys must spend a bit of time getting their faces panned in for mouthing off in bars.

[19:12:45]

fysa:

I appreciate you conditioning them for us.

[19:13:35]

CCFL_Man2:

i'd hate to order a bigger dish... almost $300

[19:13:57]

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[19:14:07]

CCFL_Man2:

and i'd have to realign it again

[19:14:14]

Dagmar:

CCFL_Man2: Well, you could get out there with some plywood and metal foil, but I wouldn't recommend it

[19:15:09]

Dagmar:

Maybe break out the multimeter and see what kind of resistance you're getting over the lead between the lnb and the reciever/tuner

[19:15:18]

Dagmar:

Might be that your coax is a bit cheap

[19:16:03]

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[19:16:08]

CCFL_Man2:

well, the thing isi heard that a guy got a lock on G15 tp3 with a 5' mesh for the satellite table on his motorola

[19:17:03]

Dagmar:

CCFL_Man2: The thing is man, that while buying a new dish might be expensive, buying a piece of coax isn't, and testing to be sure there's not room for lowering the signal attenuation between the LNB and tuner takes only a _very_ small amount of time and effort

[19:17:05]

CCFL_Man2:

oh, that i ruled out, when i was aligning it i had an ird and portable tv out there with me and used a 10ft line of coax

[19:17:27]

Dagmar:

So you tested by looking at a video signal over the coax?

[19:17:31]

Dagmar:

That's not exactly a wonderful test

[19:17:48]

Dagmar:

Oh I see what you mean

[19:17:50]

CCFL_Man2:

with that 10ft i got the same signal as i did the long coax run

[19:18:04]

Dagmar:

Yeah it could be that they're both cheap, but with a 10ft haul cheap doesn't matter a whole lot usually

[19:18:13]

Dagmar:

So much for that theory

[19:18:29]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: it has to be the trees or the lnb

[19:18:38]

Dagmar:

You're shooting through trees?

[19:18:45]

Dagmar:

You know they're filled with water, right

[19:19:09]

CCFL_Man2:

the tips of the top branches

[19:19:11]

CCFL_Man2:

yes

[19:19:11]

Dagmar:

Quite a bit of the college and high school biology classes I had were pretty obsessed with the way trees make water flow up instead of down.

[19:19:31]

CCFL_Man2:

ahh, yeah, it is pretty neat

[19:19:52]

Dagmar:

Hmm... okay, that shouldnt' affect much if it's just barely on the edge, but it might be worth moving the dish a few feet for

[19:19:57]

CCFL_Man2:

i have a feeling in summer i might have issues

[19:20:10]

Dagmar:

Oh yeah

[19:20:25]

Dagmar:

My parents still have a big dish at their place

[19:20:52]

Dagmar:

Before dad went back there with a chain saw and a glint in his eye there were satellites they could only pick up during winter

[19:21:23]

CCFL_Man2:

yeah

[19:22:05]

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[19:22:33]

CCFL_Man2:

thing is, these trees are on other properties, none are on mine

[19:22:55]

CCFL_Man2:

i doubt they care if i cut down some branches

[19:24:00]

CCFL_Man2:

but the problem is that i'm at the top of a cliff, at the bottom is like a little mini valley

[19:24:14]

CCFL_Man2:

the grade is steep

[19:24:53]

CCFL_Man2:

and on the grade is where the trees are

[19:25:08]

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[19:25:09]

CCFL_Man2:

if i were up to me all the trees would be completely gone

[19:25:16]

CCFL_Man2:

i = it

[19:25:36]

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[19:27:48]

CCFL_Man2:

Dagmar: some of the best programming is on channels you can only pick up on c band

[19:28:07]

fysa:

where are you located?

[19:28:17]

CCFL_Man2:

in the US

[19:28:19]

ARfdee:

how does one change the osd theme in mythfrontend?

[19:28:32]

iamlindoro:

ARfdee, TV Playback settings in the frontend

[19:28:34]

fysa:

are there many foreign language channels? (specifically Indian)

[19:28:38]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: thank you

[19:28:56]

iamlindoro:

ARfdee, yup. If you're using SVN, there's and OSD settings page. If not I beleive it's in "General."

[19:29:06]

iamlindoro:

But don't quote me on that as I use SVN

[19:29:25]

ARfdee:

yes, i found it

[19:29:36]

CCFL_Man2:

fysa: i'm honestly not sure, i watch DW-TV and listen to Deutsche Welle Radio via c band

[19:29:37]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: i understand some osd themes have 3 menus for pressing i, while others have 2

[19:29:42]

fysa:

cool

[19:30:00]

ARfdee:

do you know which ones have 3?

[19:30:03]

CCFL_Man2:

fysa: though i think there are some birds over the US with such programming

[19:30:05]

iamlindoro:

ARfdee, Nope

[19:30:23]

fysa:

just try them, ARfdee.

[19:30:32]

ARfdee:

k, thx

[19:31:09]

ARfdee:

man, nope

[19:31:34]

CCFL_Man2:

i hear norsat lnbs just kick major ass

[19:31:38]

ARfdee:

im looking for an osd theme that allows you to hit i 3 times.

[19:31:45]

ARfdee:

showing on the third time, the rest of the show info

[19:32:15]

iamlindoro:

ARfdee, I've never heard any such thing about OSDs... but I certainly don't know everything about myth

[19:32:21]

CCFL_Man2:

as good as cap amp

[19:32:26]

CCFL_Man2:

cal amp

[19:32:57]

fysa:

I would look into linking a lirc key to a script that keeps state, then depending on that state sends commands to mythtv's TCP/IP control interface.

[19:33:20]

fysa:

;)

[19:40:33]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: what osd theme do you use, sir?

[19:40:47]

iamlindoro:

I use gbee's metallurgy OSD

[19:40:53]

iamlindoro:

But it only works with SVN myth

[19:41:03]

iamlindoro:

It's also the only OSD that runs in HD

[19:41:12]

iamlindoro:

which is sek-say

[19:41:43]

GreyFoxx:

GrayOSD has all 3 screens

[19:41:50]

ARfdee:

GreyFoxx: thank you

[19:41:54]

ARfdee:

does abstractosd?

[19:41:58]

GreyFoxx:

no idea

[19:42:07]

GreyFoxx:

haven't used anything but GrayOSD since I made it

[19:42:29]

ARfdee:

switchedto it

[19:42:29]

ARfdee:

thanks

[19:42:30]

GreyFoxx:

though I'm tempted to go with Metallurgy for theme and OSD in a couple days with the new TV

[19:42:49]

ARfdee:

GreyFoxx: errr

[19:42:50]

ARfdee:

hmm

[19:42:57]

ARfdee:

i can't get the rest of the program information with gray-osd

[19:43:11]

GreyFoxx:

You are playing a Recording right? Not something in mythvideo ?

[19:43:22]

ARfdee:

well, livetv with a delay

[19:43:30]

GreyFoxx:

I never use LiveTV

[19:43:41]

GreyFoxx:

can't comment on if that has 2 or 3 screens

[19:43:45]

ARfdee:

well, i am wondering how to see the rest of the program information, while it gets cut off

[19:43:59]

GreyFoxx:

there is no way in the OSD to see anything cut off beyond the edges of thge OSD

[19:44:08]

GreyFoxx:

There is no "scrolling" in the OSD to see the reset

[19:44:10]

GreyFoxx:

reset

[19:44:14]

GreyFoxx:

rest even

[19:44:14]

ARfdee:

rest?

[19:44:16]

ARfdee:

oh

[19:44:21]

ARfdee:

that's what i was wondering about

[19:45:06]

ARfdee:

so there's no way in myth while watching tv to see the rest of the program information

[19:45:11]

ARfdee:

like on a subsequent pressing of i?

[19:45:12]

GreyFoxx:

Correct

[19:45:23]

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[19:45:28]

GreyFoxx:

IF the info goes past the edge of the visible OSD

[19:45:33]

GreyFoxx:

you are out of luck OSD wise

[19:45:34]

ARfdee:

:(

[19:45:44]

GreyFoxx:

you can bring up the guide, and maybe see the details in there

[19:45:55]

roothorick:

Could I pull off 720p live TV on a Celeron E1200?

[19:46:00]

GreyFoxx:

but the of the 3 OSD screens, none scrolls

[19:46:34]

ARfdee:

GreyFoxx: i like your theme

[19:47:02]

ARfdee:

well, i got my question answered. i sure wish there was an easier way to see the rest of the info:(

[19:47:14]

ARfdee:

but thanks anyway

[19:47:15]

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[19:47:32]

GreyFoxx:

screen 1 = http://www.phaze.org/mythtv/osd/newgreyosd13.jpg , screen 2 = http://www.phaze.org/mythtv/osd/newgrayosd17.jpg, screen 3 = http://www.phaze.org/mythtv/osd/newgreyosd11.jpg

[19:47:37]

GreyFoxx:

doh, too late

[19:47:56]

** GreyFoxx heads out anyway **

[19:52:12]

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[19:52:43]

iamlindoro:

For anyone following the election closely, btw, this twitter/google maps mashup is very cool: http://maps.google.com/decision2008

[19:53:08]

jarle:

argh! Why is mythfilldatabase adding channels to my DB? I do not want any new channels added!

[19:53:30]

jarle:

(using xmltv)

[19:53:42]

stf28 (stf28!n=Real@bas2-sherbrooke40-1128578523.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #mythtv-users

[19:54:06]

stf28:

Hello the world...

[19:54:40]

stf28:

I need help about the remote control

[19:55:15]

stf28:

When i use irw my remote work but not into mythfrontend

[19:56:19]

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[19:57:04]

[nrx]:

didn't wait long for an answer.

[19:57:24]

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[19:57:48]

stf28:

hello...

[19:58:02]

[nrx]:

have you checked your lircrc?

[19:58:25]

stf28:

looks like perfect

[19:58:28]

[nrx]:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/LIRC

[19:59:17]

zabadapp:

stf28: is the lircrc-file using the same remote-name as in /etc/lirc/lircd.conf (if any)

[19:59:25]

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[20:00:50]

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[20:01:18]

stf28:

Exactly the same

[20:01:45]

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[20:01:49]

iamlindoro:

stf, are you are aware that myth uses ~/.mythtv/lircrc (no preceding dot) and not ~/.lircrc, right?

[20:02:00]

JoeyJoeJo:

can mythfrontend use qt4 or does it have to be qt3?

[20:02:04]

iamlindoro:

qt3 only

[20:03:04]

stf28:

I have put a lircrc and/or a .lircrc into the ~/.mythtv linked to ~and/or /etc/lirc/lircrc

[20:03:15]

JoeyJoeJo:

iamlindoro: thanks

[20:03:44]

iamlindoro:

the and/or part is important... if it's *and*, it's fine... if it's *or*, it matters

[20:04:15]

iamlindoro:

Also probably worth asking what distro you're working with, and having you pastebin both the lircd.conf and lircrc files.

[20:04:29]

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[20:05:20]

iamlindoro:

You also need to check permissions on that file... it needs to be readable by the user running mythfrontend

[20:05:39]

iamlindoro:

if /etc/lirc/lircrc is owned by root and user "mythtv" or whatever is running mythfrontend, that's likely your problem

[20:08:57]

stf28:

ownership good and permission look like 644

[20:11:19]

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[20:11:27]

iamlindoro:

stf28, You're no providing enough information here-- "Looks like perfect" and "ownership good" are not good info — You're the one with the problem so you have probably done something wrong-- With respect, you don't *know* what a perfect lircrc is, or you wouldn't need help

[20:11:58]

iamlindoro:

Minimally, you need to be pastebinning the output of all of the following:

[20:12:05]

iamlindoro:

ls -al ~/.mythtv/lirc*

[20:12:12]

iamlindoro:

cat /etc/lirc/lircd.conf

[20:12:19]

iamlindoro:

cat ~/.mythtv/lircrc

[20:12:28]

iamlindoro:

*all* run as your myth frontend user

[20:13:27]

stf28:

this is a part of the ~/.mythtv/.lircrc

[20:13:31]

stf28:

begin

[20:13:31]

stf28:

prog = mythtv

[20:13:31]

stf28:

remote = Hauppauge_350

[20:13:31]

stf28:

button = Up

[20:13:31]

stf28:

repeat = 2

[20:13:32]

stf28:

config = Up

[20:13:34]

stf28:

end

[20:13:35]

iamlindoro:

no

[20:13:36]

stf28:

# Cancel / Back

[20:13:36]

iamlindoro:

stop

[20:13:38]

stf28:

begin

[20:13:40]

stf28:

prog = mythtv

[20:13:40]

iamlindoro:

USE PASTEBIN

[20:13:42]

stf28:

remote = Hauppauge_350

[20:13:44]

stf28:

button = Left

[20:13:46]

iamlindoro:

do not paste in channel

[20:13:48]

stf28:

repeat = 2

[20:13:49]

iamlindoro:

*argh*

[20:13:50]

stf28:

config = Esc

[20:13:52]

stf28:

end

[20:14:14]

stf28:

PASTEBIN !?!

[20:14:34]

** iamlindoro points at channel topis **

[20:14:36]

iamlindoro:

topic

[20:14:50]

iamlindoro:

pastebin.ca

[20:16:15]

stf28:

ok we can do some think without pastebin...

[20:16:34]

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[20:17:27]

iamlindoro:

stf28, forget it, I'm out of patience... if I need to argue with you about just providing the information we need by pasting it in and giving us a link, I'm not going to have the energy to help you.

[20:18:31]

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[20:18:46]

stf28:

I have create my lircd.conf and lircrc with this url http://lircconfig.commandir.com/

[20:19:35]

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[20:20:00]

stf28:

iamlindoro: I dont want to hurt you.

[20:21:54]

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[20:24:05]

jarle:

does mythfilldatabase look in the db to figure out which xmltv grabber to use for each input?

[20:26:32]

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[20:27:29]

roothorick:

I REALLY wish there was more useful info on HDTV performance in MythTV

[20:27:45]

directhex:

roothorick, it's all in my head

[20:27:53]

roothorick:

haha okay

[20:28:07]

black_Nightmare_:

:p

[20:28:15]

roothorick:

is a Celeron E1200 good enough for live TV at 720p?

[20:28:32]

roothorick:

possibly downscaling from 1080i before encoding?

[20:29:49]

iamlindoro:

Display resolution means nothing, signal resolution means everything. If you are taking in a 1080i signal, you need the horsepower to handle 1080, even if it's being displayed at 720p

[20:30:05]

DGnome:

an E6550 does h.264 720p50 and 1080i25

[20:30:11]

iamlindoro:

You're also not adding the critical info of what format and what bitrates

[20:30:26]

iamlindoro:

But that machine should be suitable for most MPEG-2 broadcast HD.

[20:30:29]

roothorick:

iamlindoro: US broadcast 1080i

[20:30:55]

roothorick:

any BD or HDDVD content will be manually downscaled beforehand

[20:30:58]

iamlindoro:

It would choke on high-bitrate h.264 and mpeg-2 stuff and medium bitrate h.264

[20:31:29]

iamlindoro:

roothorick, If you are scaling down HD-DVD or Blu-ray, better make sure to cut bitrate by about 75% too

[20:31:53]

roothorick:

...surely you don't have to go THAT far...

[20:31:59]

iamlindoro:

surely you do

[20:32:03]

roothorick:

I'd reencode it to MPEG2 and keep roughly the same bitrate

[20:32:24]

iamlindoro:

Blu-ray spec goes up to 40 megabit. Even MPEG-2, that celery won't handle it

[20:32:39]

iamlindoro:

It will *probably* handle broadcast fine, which is up to 18 Mbit

[20:33:25]

iamlindoro:

I'd expect it will do up to about 20 Mbit MPEG-2 fine and probably about 10 Mbit h.264

[20:33:38]

iamlindoro:

But I would abandon hope on any higher bitrates

[20:33:44]

roothorick:

so what kind of monster would I need to play back BD?

[20:34:00]

CCFL_Man2:

wonder if i should get a lnb/feedhorn cover

[20:34:22]

iamlindoro:

Core 2 Duo 2.2 Ghz is the lowest machine I have played full 40 Mbit 1080p on, and that's with the very occasional dropped frame.

[20:34:37]

roothorick:

hmm

[20:34:45]

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[20:34:46]

iamlindoro:

If you want no dropped frames, you want a 2.4 Ghz C2D or higher

[20:35:06]

CCFL_Man2:

it'll cool cool

[20:35:10]

roothorick:

iamlindoro: that would be an E4500 at almost 3x more $$

[20:35:15]

iamlindoro:

correct

[20:35:29]

roothorick:

correction, E4600

[20:35:49]

iamlindoro:

If you want a 2.4 Ghx, yes

[20:35:54]

iamlindoro:

2.2 is an E4500

[20:36:20]

roothorick:

yeesh...

[20:37:15]

roothorick:

I think I'll go with the E1200 and reencode any big stuff I want to watch

[20:37:32]

roothorick:

down the res (my new TV will only be 720p anyway), down the bitrate, and use oh maybe h263

[20:37:33]

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[20:38:34]

iamlindoro:

regarding useful HD info, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/HD_Playback_Reports

[20:38:52]

roothorick:

that isn't all that useful

[20:39:02]

iamlindoro:

You'll note the C2D 2.0 Ghz maxing out at 10 Mbit 1080p

[20:39:06]

roothorick:

all it really says is proc X can play resolution Y at bitrate Z

[20:39:26]

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[20:39:38]

iamlindoro:

roothorick, with codecs and containers... What more do you want??

[20:39:56]

iamlindoro:

It needs more info, but it relies on people to get off their asses and insert more

[20:40:04]

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[20:40:17]

iamlindoro:

Lord, I wrote a *script* to harvest the info, don't know how much easier I can make it for people

[20:40:26]

roothorick:

your script has a flaw btw

[20:40:41]

iamlindoro:

Oh?

[20:40:51]

roothorick:

repeated code

[20:41:02]

iamlindoro:

What code would that be?

[20:41:06]

roothorick:

if [ "$EXTENSION" = "mkv" ]; then (

[20:41:07]

roothorick:

should be

[20:41:13]

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[20:41:40]

roothorick:

if [ "$EXTENSION" = "mkv" -o "$EXTENSION" ] "mkv"]; then (

[20:41:45]

iamlindoro:

oh well

[20:41:49]

iamlindoro:

works fine anyway

[20:42:09]

roothorick:

and I typo'd myself but you get the point

[20:42:50]

iamlindoro:

yes, and it works fine. Anyway, do what you like... but that page is as good as it gets regarding what processors have what capabilities

[20:43:07]

roothorick:

Are overclocked processors allowed? ;)

[20:43:28]

iamlindoro:

So long it's noted that way in the comments, it's fine with me

[20:47:00]

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[20:47:30]

roothorick:

believe it or not, my AthXP 2200+ OC'd to 2.1Ghz can handle 1080p 10mbit

[20:47:34]

momelod:

hey people, when i run nuvexport as a userjob on a recording.. where does the re-encoded file go?

[20:47:46]

justinh:

roothorick: in mythfrontend ?

[20:47:51]

roothorick:

justinh: no. mplayer.

[20:48:01]

justinh:

and better add the proviso you mean mpeg2 not h.264

[20:48:07]

roothorick:

actually

[20:48:08]

roothorick:

it's mpeg4

[20:48:34]

justinh:

but again not in mythfrontend

[20:48:38]

roothorick:

true

[20:48:40]

roothorick:

still

[20:48:48]

** directhex sincerely doubts this is broadcast hd **

[20:49:08]

justinh:

yeah well downloaded content means zip

[20:49:10]

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[20:49:26]

directhex:

hell, the needle barely moves for me on downloaded hd

[20:49:35]

roothorick:

well, it's usually much lower bitrate, but it still can be judged by its merits

[20:49:41]

justinh:

but 1080i h.264 from BBC HD..

[20:49:53]

justinh:

with AVC encoding. different matter

[20:50:02]

directhex:

roothorick, here, try http://x264.nl/h.264.samples/force.php?file=./bbc.hd.ts

[20:50:13]

justinh:

if you really want a stress test, try a bbchd stream

[20:50:20]

directhex:

roothorick, if that's not 100% in sync, with mhz to spare, you can't do broadcast hd

[20:50:40]

roothorick:

directhex: that's UK broadcast, don't they use a different codec?

[20:50:42]

directhex:

roothorick, and i don't have a machine that can. perhaps the wife's new pc, but certainly none of my home or work machines

[20:50:51]

directhex:

roothorick, you stipulated mpeg4

[20:50:57]

roothorick:

tre

[20:50:58]

roothorick:

*true

[20:51:10]

justinh:

my c2d 1.83 can't play bbc hd on a single core. copes with most downloaded 1080p though (trailers etc) on a single core

[20:51:19]

directhex:

roothorick, europe uses mpeg4 part 10. america uses mpeg2. if your downloads are mpeg4 part 2, they are less than worthless for comparison

[20:51:31]

directhex:

justinh, my 2.33 can't.

[20:51:46]

justinh:

c2d 2.83? on a single core or two?

[20:51:55]

roothorick:

directhex: it came close, but not quite

[20:52:03]

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[20:52:20]

cal_:

i get these every once in awhile.. and my video pauses.. do i need more memory? (i have 1gb) RingBuf(/myth/tv/1073_20080205150001.mpg): Waited 2.0 seconds for data to become available...

[20:52:20]

justinh:

saw somebody claim they decoded hd mpeg2 on a 1.3Ghz machine ones. methinks they were pretending

[20:52:30]

directhex:

roothorick, ignoring the YOUR COMPUTER IS TOO SLOW TO PLAY THIS message from mplayer?

[20:52:36]

justinh:

cal_: maybe less wireless

[20:52:44]

cal_:

also these: NVP: prebuffering pause

[20:52:45]

directhex:

yeah, smells of network issues

[20:53:03]

cal_:

justin: frontend and backend are on the same box

[20:53:04]

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[20:53:05]

roothorick:

directhex: that was my only hint that it wasn't quite keeping up. I couldn't tell while it was playing, besides the A/V sync drifting a little at the end

[20:53:28]

directhex:

roothorick, you're the boss then. stick with athlon xp for h264 hd

[20:53:38]

roothorick:

my system could probably pull it off if it was MPEG2 and I used XvMC

[20:53:48]

directhex:

yes, probably

[20:53:52]

roothorick:

same bitrate

[20:53:56]

justinh:

pfft. xvmc. come back when there's real acceleration in linux

[20:54:04]

roothorick:

justinh: far better than nothing

[20:54:18]

justinh:

I'd rather have nothing than have to use xvmc again

[20:54:20]

directhex:

roothorick, if you have the option, no, it isn't

[20:54:36]

directhex:

roothorick, xvmc causes too many issues and interferes with too many things

[20:54:41]

roothorick:

directhex: s/the option/a fast enough CPU to go without/

[20:54:50]

directhex:

precisely

[20:55:03]

justinh:

like I said I'd rather go without than use xvmc

[20:55:16]

black_Nightmare_:

meh why do I bother with some people on freenode sometimes? :p someone saying they can't even play dvd movies at all on a 475mhz pc and when I see the system configuration he posted I just had to bang my head on the desk ... poro pick of os and very little ram etc – but he just doesn't seem to understand and wants to buy an used P4 system instead

[20:55:18]

roothorick:

I'd personally rather not spend the money on hardware I don't need

[20:55:33]

black_Nightmare_:

hrm...*wonders what to do with him*

[20:56:04]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, freenode is full of dumbasses

[20:56:13]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex....too true heheh

[20:56:34]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex you want see what some of his system configuration is? its a quick png file

[20:56:50]

directhex:

url, no dcc

[20:57:26]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: best policy is not to bother. give them one chance & if they blow it, /ignore :)

[20:57:50]

justinh:

actually, /ignore -replies & hope everybody who talks to them uses their nick

[20:58:13]

black_Nightmare_:

http://digitalbyond.net/~crashed/aida.png ... I would say either 2K or go linux/bsd with a lightweight desktop instead, a lot more ram (surely any skt7 board can handle 386–512mb), disable that little onboard video for even a geforce2 MX pci card, optionally change cdrom for a dvdrom or dvdrw drive, maybe a 100+gb oem hd

[20:58:42]

black_Nightmare_:

the fact he's trying to use XP-SP2 on 64mb of ram and asking for video playback....I'm not so sure what to say

[20:58:42]

cal_:

justninh: why did you say wireless?

[20:58:58]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: but, but, but... but mwagh I read this blog and it said... mwahhhhhhhhhhhh

[20:59:24]

justinh:

cal_: cos wireless sucks for things where you need dependable throughput ?

[20:59:40]

directhex:

i'd say bin the fucking box. you can pull better out of a skip these days

[20:59:47]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, url doesn't work, btw

[21:00:01]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...heh yeah I'll just watch the idiot go fall over on hisself :p

[21:00:19]

black_Nightmare_:

oh hm he must had pulled it down after I slight flamed him

[21:00:22]

cal_:

justinh: just wondered why you assumed i was using wireless. my mythtv doesnt go across the network.

[21:00:26]

justinh:

ugh that damn vista box is still here. ugly PoS

[21:01:05]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, actually, my dns looks fucked

[21:01:16]

justinh:

cal_: upon not being given enough info to go on, one usually conjects ;)

[21:01:20]

roothorick:

so, a stock clocked AthXP 2200+ should be able to handle anything the US broadcast system can throw at it?

[21:01:39]

justinh:

roothorick: depends if it has an ATI VGA card or not

[21:01:48]

directhex:

roothorick, a heavily overclocked one, preferably, should manage, along with a decent gpu

[21:01:53]

roothorick:

justinh: GeForce 6 series

[21:02:01]

roothorick:

6200 to be exact

[21:02:07]

justinh:

roothorick: ok, so yeah, with the nvidia binary driver

[21:02:15]

justinh:

_possibly_ – YMMV

[21:02:30]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex..hm well this is what the picture listed if you still wanted to know: k6–2 475mhz, GA-5SMM skt7 board (no agp), Sis 530 chipset, 64MB ram, Sis 620 (8MB vga), ESS Solo-1 AudioDrive, mitsumi cdrom, sony cdrw, 12880MB hd --- and loaded with xp professional SP2 with IE6.0

[21:02:31]

justinh:

my 2800XP can't play mpeg2 HDTV

[21:02:59]

roothorick:

anyone have a US broadcast HD sample for me?

[21:03:03]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: find out where he lives & take the machine outside

[21:03:13]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, just bin it. k6–2 475 WILL struggle with dvd – at the best of times, with a lean win98 install

[21:03:28]

directhex:

yeah. i'm invoking Ol' Yeller on the box

[21:03:40]

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[21:03:42]

roothorick:

bah. I got a Celery 333 to do passably with DVDs

[21:03:46]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: maybe with a hollywood decoder card thingy for mpeg2

[21:03:53]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh..heh yeah I wish...I'll love to swipe that pc from him and lift the k6–2 processor for myself then toss the rest to the recycler

[21:03:59]

directhex:

roothorick, passably?

[21:04:13]

roothorick:

directhex: skipping almost every other frame, but it could keep in sync

[21:04:29]

directhex:

roothorick, celeron was still better, but i wouldn't want to use less than 400mhz of intel for a *reliable* experience

[21:04:37]

justinh:

minumum cpu I'd recommend is 700 _real_ Mhz

[21:04:55]

justinh:

not made up Via Mhz. not made up AMD numbers

[21:05:01]

roothorick:

yeesh, you people shoot high

[21:05:05]

directhex:

well, yeah. i can't believe this is even an issue in 2008

[21:05:19]

directhex:

i mean, fuck, i was at school when i had >700mhz bought with pocket money

[21:05:25]

black_Nightmare_:

roothorick..heh yeah I agree..I've got a 266 and a 300 here, the 300 has always played dvd movies just fine as far as I've remembered

[21:05:25]

justinh:

roothorick: best place for hardware like that is in a developing country, and probably not even then because they suck too much juice

[21:05:40]

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[21:05:40]

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[21:05:51]

justinh:

old gear is noisy, hot & more expensive to run

[21:06:01]

directhex:

and less reliable

[21:06:03]

directhex:

and less functional

[21:06:09]

directhex:

who wants to buy my VAX?

[21:06:13]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...not so true..try find me a intel core that can run with no heatsink in a complete fanless case

[21:06:26]

roothorick:

I think I'll find a solid Socket A passive cooler, put it in this rig, return it to stock clocks, and make it my new HTPC

[21:06:44]

roothorick:

getting a brand new hardcore gaming caliber machine as my new primary desktop

[21:06:46]

justinh:

as for using old hardware as routers – don't. find an old machine that'll pull less than 15W

[21:06:48]

directhex:

roothorick, you are, of course, the boss

[21:07:17]

roothorick:

directhex: true. My gear, my experience, all that jazz

[21:07:33]

justinh:

I _might_ put my old epia to use as a network box, but I might just buy a good router instead

[21:07:51]

justinh:

smaller, for one thing

[21:08:01]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...umm excuse me but old boards can draw little too (hell I could have easily PicoPSU-60 mine if it wasn't for the fact of the geforce+3dfx cards combo and four desktop drives in it)

[21:08:02]

roothorick:

heh, I do need a new server

[21:08:09]

black_Nightmare_:

^_^

[21:08:45]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: well, to that I say a big 'whatever'. the bar has been raised & for the sake of sanity I wouldn't recommend people use silly old boxes

[21:09:35]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh..so you don't care if landfills overfill near your place then?

[21:09:37]

justinh:

at the same time I'm no advocate of ridiculous quad SLI ricer rigs & whatnot.. that's going too far the other way

[21:09:54]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: better in landfill than clogging up my house

[21:10:12]

black_Nightmare_:

I guess you're one of these many people thats causing the real environment harms — bye? :p

[21:10:34]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, consider efficiency. what can you do with 100W of pentium 2 machines?

[21:10:38]

** black_Nightmare_ points to lead pcb and mercury peripherals **

[21:10:46]

justinh:

the sad truth about electronic recycling is that too much of it is being done at more cost to the environment

[21:10:55]

black_Nightmare_:

100W? what cards is in them?

[21:11:02]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, your call

[21:11:08]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, it's a hypothetical

[21:11:21]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: lead free is BS. it takes 33% more energy to melt lead-free solder. what's the sense in that? How do you want to die tomorrow? drowning or lead poisoning?

[21:11:40]

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[21:11:53]

directhex:

cake or death?

[21:12:01]

justinh:

and godknows how many other toxis chemicals there are floating around we don't yet care about because there's been no scare story about them

[21:12:07]

justinh:

s/toxis/toxic

[21:12:24]

directhex:

britney spears is toxic!

[21:12:32]

justinh:

lithium anybody?

[21:12:48]

directhex:

yeah, nirvana too

[21:13:19]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...hm well if thats a PII/300+ with geforce4, modem, and firewire — I can think of way too much: internet, movies, oldie/free games, capturing video, small digital arts (wacom optional), coding if needed, hm and digital photography

[21:13:56]

justinh:

not _editing_ video on that box. yikers

[21:14:10]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh..I do several times a week seriously

[21:14:15]

black_Nightmare_:

-_-

[21:14:28]

justinh:

how many nights does it take to render a 10 minute dvd clip?

[21:14:51]

directhex:

justinh, it's fine for 160x120 videos!

[21:15:00]

directhex:

justinh, that's all you can store on the 2gb disk anyway

[21:15:13]

justinh:

ahh I remember the old 'multimedia' pc

[21:15:23]

justinh:

look ma! it's playing movin' pictures!

[21:15:48]

justinh:

seriously though if you wanna use kit that old fine- it's your space & your time it's taking up

[21:15:53]

black_Nightmare_:

10 minutes? not sure but 30min (as per copied from tape) at 320x240@15fps only took about 1–1/2hr ish but I don't recall exactly

[21:15:57]

iamlindoro:

Mmmm, The 7th Guest....

[21:15:59]

directhex:

justinh, my first pc was MPC2 certified! it had a 2-speed cdrom!

[21:16:10]

justinh:

I'm just not in the buxiness of recommending anybody use less than 1GHz for mythtv duties

[21:16:18]

black_Nightmare_:

1–1 1/2 hour I meant sorry

[21:17:16]

black_Nightmare_:

then to edit out all the damned ads in it heh (more fun to watch again later on that way) in a few minutes ^_^

[21:17:21]

justinh:

if you ever need an example of why not to recycle old hardware beyond its useful life, see the logs for the 'ongoing adventures of clever'

[21:17:37]

justinh:

bless him

[21:17:54]

directhex:

i'll probably recycle a box as a frontend until i can afford a mac mini, once we move house

[21:17:55]

black_Nightmare_:

well I could agree if it was only a PI or earlier like that – these are way at end of their life except to any dos collectors :p

[21:18:16]

directhex:

wife's old desktop. 3200+, 1gb ram, 7600gs

[21:18:20]

black_Nightmare_:

I still dunno why some people try to get 486s to play vcds sometimes

[21:18:22]

justinh:

I mean hell – I can't afford to go out & shell cash on a spanky new rig – in a sense I _am_ using old hardware for all my machines bar one but there's a limit ;)

[21:18:24]

directhex:

bit of a junker really

[21:18:30]

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[21:18:41]

black_Nightmare_:

just the hell pick a 266+mhz instead and why it'll handle dvd too as a bonus

[21:19:01]

justinh:

backend is a pretendy 2ghz 2000XP

[21:19:09]

justinh:

desktop is a 2800XP

[21:19:13]

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[21:19:23]

zabadapp:

justinh: does that mean 33% higher temperature to melt lead-free?

[21:19:25]

justinh:

ffs my dev box I do most compiling on is an athlon 800

[21:19:32]

directhex:

my BE is a dual-core pentium-d 3ghz

[21:19:47]

black_Nightmare_:

I guess 486s maybe have their place for electronics tinkering tho...easy to find many serial and parallel cards for cheap .. and if you somehow miscrossed any of the cables into shortening out — just simply trash the blown card and/or board and find another free one

[21:19:58]

justinh:

zabadapp: around 20–30 deg C higher melting point, plus other process costs

[21:22:39]

justinh:

there are far, far worse nasties than lead to deal with in electronics, and we don't hear anybody shouting about them

[21:22:40]

black_Nightmare_:

not computer related but here's a good one......why the hell are we bothering with hybrids when so far they don't really get much better mileages? like that toyota prius only gets about 40–45 factory claimed highway milage, but guess what? the older vw jetta tdi (have they reintroduced diesel options back yet? hmm need to look that up) had the same rating and it was a single less-complicated powerplant?

[21:23:02]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: bandwagons have very high MPGs

[21:23:14]

black_Nightmare_:

bandwagons?

[21:23:37]

justinh:

get on the hybrid bandwagon, show your support & tell people you care

[21:23:45]

justinh:

that's what'll save the planet!

[21:24:01]

black_Nightmare_:

no thanks, I'll prefer a single powerplant that returns similar mpg .. but to our own :p

[21:24:03]

justinh:

tempted to splurge out on a VW Bluemotion diesel

[21:24:05]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, diesel is common

[21:24:17]

justinh:

$crazy mpg

[21:24:34]

directhex:

justinh, tiny engine, diesel

[21:24:39]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...heh I checked and nice to see vw does have diesel again but I think that the 2007 (and/or was that 2006?) years had no diesel option at all for some reason before

[21:24:53]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, diesel is common

[21:24:55]

black_Nightmare_:

2.0L 170HP I4 TDI :)

[21:25:03]

zabadapp:

justinh: ok, i figure most soldering is done in them baths, should be possible to insulate/recycle heat to keep the extra energy down...

[21:25:23]

justinh:

I'm past the point where I need a powerful engine in place of a penis

[21:25:43]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...heh... there's another way to say 'common' if you want...

[21:25:43]

justinh:

but then, 2.0L is a teeny tiny toy engine size in the US

[21:25:49]

black_Nightmare_:

'common rail direct injection' :p

[21:25:59]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh..not really...try 1.6L and so, they still produce them

[21:26:10]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, frequent. everywhere. humdrum. run of the mill. diesel is available on almost all conventional vehicles

[21:26:16]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: really? not the impression we're fed in the UK ;)

[21:26:28]

directhex:

justinh, they're gonna sell yanks Smarts!

[21:26:35]

black_Nightmare_:

well the new ford ranger only comes with a 2.3L I4 gas as base for the note

[21:26:46]

justinh:

directhex: for pure comedy value, I assume

[21:26:53]

black_Nightmare_:

at least its only a single cab with short bed

[21:26:57]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, nobody gives a shit about your fuel-hungry monstrous american cars

[21:27:19]

directhex:

there's a reason the japanese manufactuers are doing fine and the big yank brands are dying

[21:27:21]

justinh:

I heard about petrol prices in Saudi today. 12p a litre

[21:27:31]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex..hehehe...too true...especially if it was the early 70's (1–7mpg highway literally, don't bother asking)

[21:27:47]

black_Nightmare_:

they called the big heavy sedans "tanks" for a reason

[21:27:52]

directhex:

note to all: remember to convert between imperial and US gallons

[21:28:02]

justinh:

well, it's my kids I feel sorry for. if I ever have any cos of all that lead in the solder

[21:28:28]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...heh sorry..almost forgot about that...btw remind me again but what do you use to measure fuel useage over there?

[21:28:37]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: litres

[21:28:52]

black_Nightmare_:

up in canada its km/L but only canadian reviews and dealers seem to use this at all..everyone else just goes by mpg instead *sigh*

[21:29:00]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, sold in litres, efficiency in miles per imperial gallon

[21:29:10]

black_Nightmare_:

ah ok

[21:29:36]

directhex:

the bluemotion polo justinh mentioned gets 3.9 L/100 km (72.4 imperial MPG, 60.3 US MPG)

[21:30:04]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...just curious but do you have some kind of body over there that set minimum mileage necessary for different class of vehicles?

[21:30:09]

directhex:

which is pretty decent, but not THAT uncommon. the c107ygo does about that

[21:30:37]

black_Nightmare_:

in north america we got whats called CAFE (or as Corporate Average Fuel Economy)

[21:31:19]

justinh:

directhex: but bluemotion is also less than 99g CO2 per km.. therefore Â£0 road fund licence :)

[21:31:35]

black_Nightmare_:

60mpg? damn...nice

[21:31:49]

justinh:

60mpg in diesels is pretty common here

[21:31:53]

directhex:

yep

[21:32:10]

black_Nightmare_:

hmm how many litres do these usually hold? (for an idea of rough range between refill)

[21:32:11]

justinh:

my boss' VW Passat does 65mpg even when you really hoof it around

[21:32:19]

justinh:

and that's a 2.0 TDi

[21:32:34]

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[21:32:44]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: my car, basic 5 door hatchback holds about 55 litres

[21:32:45]

cal_:

i get these every once in awhile.. and my video pauses.. do i need more memory? (i have 1gb) frontend and backend on same box. 2.2ghz.... RingBuf(/myth/tv/1073_20080205150001.mpg): Waited 2.0 seconds for data to become available...

[21:32:59]

directhex:

my somewhat smaller car has a 40l tank, i think

[21:33:17]

justinh:

every once in a while, in irssi my IRC client I get one of these "i get these every once in awhile.. and my video pauses.. do i need more memory? (i have 1gb) frontend and backend on same box. 2.2ghz.... RingBuf(/myth/tv/1073_20080205150001.mpg): Waited 2.0 seconds for data to become available...

[21:33:22]

justinh:

"

[21:33:24]

justinh:

anybody know what's wrong?

[21:33:24]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...heh...you know I seriously sometimes wish that the french hp tax could be imposed harshly in north america — that'll make many of these excessive fullsize sedans and suvs disappear overnight :p (I only said 'many' because I know some people that actually need them for a reason, not just because they are "big" so fair enough)

[21:33:28]

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[21:33:36]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...hmm nice

[21:33:43]

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[21:33:51]

justinh:

cal_: dma enabled on the HDD

[21:33:52]

justinh:

?

[21:34:08]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh and directhex btw just curious about it but either of you ever seen Citroen DS' over there?

[21:34:10]

justinh:

cpu pegged out doing something else? what does top say?

[21:34:13]

black_Nightmare_:

(in your area that is)

[21:34:39]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: dunno. colleague of mine is getting a Citroen C4 tomorrow

[21:34:53]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, no, not many french classics around here. mainly british

[21:35:03]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, lots of mgs and lotuses in the area

[21:35:04]

directhex:

and tvr

[21:35:26]

justinh:

there's somebody with a 2CV around the corner from where I live :P

[21:35:27]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex....ah...british..hmm you mean like these mg/mgb roadster cars?

[21:35:37]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...a 2CV? hehe is it with one or two motors? :p

[21:35:41]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, exactly like those

[21:36:04]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, http://oselli.com/stock is the stock list for the classic car dealership up the road

[21:36:07]

black_Nightmare_:

directhex...nice...btw my father say they used to have a MGB car but it was sold shortly after I was born since it only had 2 seats (well duh heh)

[21:36:09]

justinh:

black_Nightmare_: 2 hourses, CV, as in chevaux

[21:36:14]

justinh:

*horses, even

[21:36:17]

directhex:

black_Nightmare_, count the MGBs

[21:36:38]

** ol_schoola tried to fill the Chevy Express 2500 from empty today, pump cut me off at 75 USD **

[21:37:11]

justinh:

ol_schoola: even at USA prices? :-O

[21:37:18]

black_Nightmare_:

justinh...ah heh ok because I sometimes like these Saharda's (or what was that spelled again?) – basically its a 2CV with one motor in hood and one in trunk with spare tire mounted to top of hood, if one motor dies you still can get back home on other one

[21:37:30]

justinh:

what the f is that? a fuel tank with wheels?!

[21:37:31]

ol_schoola:

errrrm, 75 USD is 75 USD, lol

[21:37:33]

black_Nightmare_:

ol_schoola... 75?!!! *blinks*

[21:37:45]

justinh:

ol_schoola: meant USA fuel prices.. duh ;)

[21:37:46]

ol_schoola:

it's gotta 33 gal tankl

[21:37:55]

directhex:

i'd blink, but that's what it costs to fill the tank on my jazz

[21:38:10]

directhex:

let's do some translating, wait a sec.....

[21:38:17]

ol_schoola:

the Sprinter only has a 23 gal tank

[21:38:46]

** ol_schoola likey '06 Sprinter, gets 22–25 us mpg **

[21:38:47]

directhex:

(UKÂ£ 1.03900) per litre = 7.75832035 US$ per US gallon

[21:38:51]

black_Nightmare_:

btw re that oselli link, the hell someone pls export that Lotus Elan for me :p

[21:38:55]

black_Nightmare_:

hehehe

[21:38:55]

directhex:

that would be the cost of fuel in the uk

[21:39:18]

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[21:39:34]

ol_schoola:

directhex: i forgot how many gallons actually went in, the credit auth cut me off at 75$

[21:39:49]

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[21:39:54]

ol_schoola:

directhex: certainly not all 30 gallons

[21:40:19]

directhex:

okay, 42L tank in theory on my car

[21:40:20]

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[21:40:40]

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[21:40:50]

ol_schoola:

litres, gallons Imperial Troopers.... I'm getting dizzy

[21:40:51]

jblack:

Ahh...

[21:41:13]

directhex:

so that's... Â£43.64 to fill up from dry, which is... 86.0803188 US$

[21:41:23]

jblack:

I just upgraded mythtv. out of the blue, my windows box is saying "I found mythtv". wtf?

[21:41:26]

directhex:

so i couldn't fill up a small city car if i was cut off at $75

[21:41:31]

justinh:

jblack: upnp :)

[21:41:33]

directhex:

jblack, upnp

[21:41:37]

directhex:

jblack, vista?

[21:41:45]

jblack:

vista

[21:41:50]

justinh:

jblack: now sit back in awe as it won't work with recorded files because it sucks :)

[21:42:01]

directhex:

jblack, read http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=10005&page=8

[21:42:05]

directhex:

justinh, wfm

[21:42:11]

ol_schoola:

gas is 3.10 right now, 33 us gal , therefore, about $100 usd to fillerup

[21:42:25]

directhex:

justinh, http://img.hexus.net/v2/articles/MythTV/wmp-upnp-06.jpg

[21:42:26]

jblack:

windows is such a leaky sieve of ports.

[21:42:32]

ol_schoola:

and it only gets about 12 us mpg

[21:42:56]

ol_schoola:

the Chevy, that is

[21:43:05]

jblack:

heh. Thought you meant vista. ;)

[21:43:23]

ol_schoola:

the Chevy is going away next season, the Sprinter is getting a new friend

[21:43:25]

justinh:

anyway, time to go do something way less Zzzz

[21:44:13]

** jblack wonders what else has changed between "2.0.20" and "2.0.99" **

[21:45:35]

directhex:

0.20.2, and 0.20.99

[21:45:40]

directhex:

and "a lot"

[21:45:45]

jblack:

Pardon, yes.

[21:45:49]

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[21:45:53]

jblack:

I have 2s on the brains.

[21:46:41]

jmusits:

I was hoping to pick up maintainance of the integration of the ivtv drivers in MythTV proper as I have heard this has kind of been abandoned

[21:47:29]

directhex:

jmusits, pvr350 framebuffer output

[21:47:33]

jmusits:

looking through trac I didn't find any bugs related to this, is there anywhere else I might look to find out what is currently broken / feature requests

[21:47:43]

directhex:

jmusits, ivtv input remains a first class citizen

[21:48:44]

jmusits:

directhex: that's what I have heard, I recently upped my X ivtv output driver to 1.0.0 and everything seems to be working well, besides the Internal video player for mythvideo

[21:49:31]

jmusits:

directhex: anything in particular you have noticed?

[21:49:40]

directhex:

jmusits, i'm not sure what does or doesn't work with pvr350 output, i wouldn't use it

[21:50:50]

jmusits:

directhex: right now it my only output, also it's been working fine for me for 5+ years

[21:51:00]

jblack:

Other than a few segfaults so far, and mythvideo breaking, looks nice

[21:51:31]

jmusits:

I'll look around and see what issues I can find, was hoping someone could point me towards a starting point

[21:53:26]

jblack:

Would anyone happen to know which library defines _ZN18ConfigurationGroup6byNameE7QString ?

[21:53:27]

jmusits:

would it be appropriate to pose this question in #mythtv as well?

[21:55:34]

directhex:

assuming you already searched trac for tickets containing the term "ivtv" or "350"

[21:56:26]

jblack:

Ahh, I see the problem. Mythvideo in ubuntu is still back at 0.20.2

[21:56:57]

directhex:

jblack, ubuntu is generally on 0.20.2 in stable releases

[21:59:02]

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[22:05:02]

[nrx]:

:)

[22:05:37]

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[22:08:08]

jblack:

I'm not on the stable release because of acpi problems.

[22:18:48]

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[22:24:21]

CyberKnet:

I like miranda enough for IM, but I had a hard time trying to use it for IRC.

[22:24:42]

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[22:33:24]

jblack:

Awww. still no indication that a show has been transcoded

[22:41:58]

CyberKnet:

I'm sure thousands upon thousands of users have had great luck with transcoding... never worked for me, however I never really cared enough to mess with it. I have an underpowered backend, and disk space was cheap enough.

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[23:00:37]

jblack:

Is there a way to set playback to progressive by default?

[23:01:50]

directhex:

turn on a deinterlacer

[23:01:54]

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[23:02:58]

jblack:

I can do it manually in shows, via the "o" menu. I don't know how to set progessive as the default for all shows, though

[23:04:16]

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[23:08:24]

jblack:

Oh, I see the problem.

[23:08:52]

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[23:11:19]

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[23:11:55]

Miranda_:

Hmm, apparently I jsut emerged ivtv and didn't mess with drivers

[23:13:50]

tjcarter:

uhoh

[23:13:51]

tjcarter:

gentoo

[23:14:00]

** tjcarter fears **

[23:14:45]

Miranda_:

yeah.. apparently UDEV isn't listed as a dependancy for the ivtv driver

[23:15:04]

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[23:15:06]

Miranda_:

because it apperars that UDEV is installed, but not used

[23:15:58]

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[23:16:16]

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[23:16:35]

tjcarter:

You know this is all because Linux sucks and you should buy Vista. ;)

[23:16:37]

** tjcarter RUNS **

[23:18:01]

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[23:18:25]

sinthetek:

Miranda_: with gentoo you should set IVTV_CARDS in make.conf, iirc

[23:18:51]

code-er:

what is more efficent, asking the Myth Backend to stream the video, or nfs?

[23:19:02]

sinthetek:

no wait, i was confusing that with LIRC_DEVICES hah

[23:20:16]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, heh.

[23:20:32]

sinthetek:

i just remembered something about a 'hauppauge' option, sorry

[23:20:50]

Miranda_:

heheh

[23:21:10]

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[23:21:23]

sinthetek:

with my ivtv, i just had to compile it and modprobe ivtv

[23:21:31]

jblack:

Did the interlacing settings get removed in 0.20.99 ?

[23:21:42]

sinthetek:

i think

[23:22:27]

sinthetek:

been like a year now

[23:22:38]

code-er:

what is more efficent, asking the Myth Backend to stream the video, or nfs?

[23:22:49]

sinthetek:

i need a dentist :\

[23:23:02]

Miranda_:

hmm.

[23:23:22]

sinthetek:

code-er not sure... my sister regularly watches movies from my system with nfs without problems though

[23:23:31]

sinthetek:

(amd64 2800+/1gb)

[23:23:49]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, how do I find out what version of ivtv I've got installed?

[23:24:02]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, the ebuild only gives me *its* version (which is 1.0.3-r2)

[23:24:18]

sinthetek:

Miranda_: do you have eix installed? faster for finding info than regular emerge...

[23:24:20]

sinthetek:

erm..

[23:24:31]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, probably not

[23:24:48]

Miranda_:

Nope

[23:24:49]

sinthetek:

that isn't the same as the regular ivtv version?

[23:25:03]

code-er:

here is my problem, i have 2 backends. One has more HD then the other, donno how to set it up. nfs all them together

[23:25:04]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, IIRC, ivtv is only up to 0.6.x

[23:25:22]

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[23:26:00]

sinthetek:

version 1.0.3 for kernels >= 2.6.22 and <= 2.6.23.

[23:26:17]

sinthetek:

what kernel version are you using? could that be the problem?

[23:26:21]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, okay, that's what I've got, 1.0.3-r1

[23:26:36]

Miranda_:

2.6.23-gentoo-r6

[23:26:49]

sinthetek:

if you unmasked ivtv to force upgrade but kernel is too low, it would cause compile to fail

[23:26:54]

sinthetek:

ahh, ok

[23:27:07]

code-er:

any one know if the cx18 drivers work?

[23:27:20]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, well, if I unmask ivtv, it wants to install masked versions of the perl dependancies too

[23:27:54]

sinthetek:

unmask those too :P

[23:28:21]

sinthetek:

i think like 90% of stuff that is masked is usable/ok

[23:30:16]

sinthetek:

most of them are just sorta disclaimers stating developers are busy with other stuff so the build isn't well tested but seemed to work ok (at least in some cases) so an ebuild was provided

[23:32:16]

code-er:

COMMAND

[23:32:17]

code-er:

29505 root 20 0 52804 39m 19m R 86.6 4.0 14:01.96 X

[23:32:18]

code-er:

hmm

[23:32:45]

Miranda_:

X seems to be running as root?

[23:33:08]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, do I need udev(hotplug) support for ivtv?

[23:33:09]

sinthetek:

*dm

[23:33:10]

jamesd:

how did you get X to use just 39m... my X is using 20 times that.

[23:33:32]

Miranda_:

code-er, I'm guessing X is running by itself, no wm

[23:33:47]

sinthetek:

using a login manager requires that it have ability to access other user's files

[23:33:59]

code-er:

Miranda_: ratpoison

[23:34:04]

code-er:

no login manager :)

[23:34:32]

code-er:

good old fashion STARTX :)

[23:34:36]

sinthetek:

hmm

[23:34:51]

jamesd:

13884 root 25 0 651m 532m 52m R 92 13.5 235:36.61 Xorg guess kde adds a bit more bloat.

[23:35:04]

code-er:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=mythf . . . ab&meta=

[23:35:06]

code-er:

first link :-D

[23:35:14]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, does UDEV need to be running for ivtv to work properly?

[23:35:15]

sinthetek:

oh yeah, it also needs to access video hardware

[23:35:24]

directhex:

because "optimized" and "featureless" are pretty much the same thing!

[23:35:26]

sinthetek:

for any direct rendering/3d -type stuff

[23:35:35]

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[23:35:42]

sinthetek:

Miranda_: not to my knowledge, but i'm no expert

[23:36:25]

code-er:

woohoo

[23:36:27]

sinthetek:

afaik, anything udev does can be done manually and other ways if you know how

[23:36:52]

code-er:

cx18 has dvb support.. awsome..

[23:37:04]

sinthetek:

you can make udev detect your video card at boot and load the module for it or you can just add a modprobe command to bootup sequence to run before mythbackend starts

[23:37:16]

sinthetek:

(or just load it by hand everytime)

[23:37:23]

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[23:37:57]

sinthetek:

or you could add the module directly into the kernel, which would require neither i think

[23:37:59]

Miranda_:

sinthetek, from what I was reading, something about the firmware loading needs udev

[23:38:04]

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[23:38:56]

sinthetek:

hmmm... could be...i didn't know that though

[23:39:02]

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[23:39:42]

sinthetek:

i just know i've had to and was able to compensate for lacking udev rules in the past with other hardware and don't remember ever having to use it with ivtv

[23:39:55]

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[23:40:26]

sinthetek:

i do remember install firmware packages for it though, now that ya mention it... i suppose that could have added/affected something with udev stuff

[23:40:38]

directhex:

heaven forbid some damn dirty distro developer do this shit for me so i don't have to

[23:42:06]

sinthetek:

word up

[23:42:13]

sinthetek:

knowing how shit works is for suckas

[23:42:54]

jblack:

Yeah. I can't find the interlacing menu any more.

[23:43:00]

directhex:

how does udev work? you've obviously spent time working on the code

[23:44:09]

sinthetek:

you don't have to work on the code to understand how it works/interacts with other stuff conceptually and use that to your advantage

[23:44:16]

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[23:46:15]

directhex:

and you don't need to type "emerge" to understand how it works/interacts with other stuff conceptually and use that to your advantage

[23:47:11]

sinthetek:

...you sorta do in most cases :P

[23:47:29]

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[23:48:26]

sinthetek:

to use that knowledge to your advantage... you'll have a hard time on most distros/oses that don't have some variation of portage

[23:48:35]

sinthetek:

that sorta knowledge

[23:48:36]

sinthetek:

i think

[23:49:00]

directhex:

because lord knows no distro has an /etc/udev/rules.d/

[23:49:07]

directhex:

except hobbytoo

[23:50:07]

sinthetek:

you sorta lost me, i'm not sure what you're trying to state. is gentoo lacking because people may need to know an app/driver uses udev or because gentoo udev rulesets are lacking?

[23:50:33]

code-rr:

"ivtv0: Encoder mailbox not found

[23:50:36]

code-rr:

what does that mean?

[23:51:16]

sinthetek:

my point was simply the flexibility provided and knowledge gleened is worth the tradeoff of having to sift through a few docs sometimes

[23:52:08]

directhex:

gentoo forces humans to do machines' work, on a per-human basis. it's fine if you really want a hobby to learn with, but the perceived advantages are often falsehoods

[23:54:25]

bagpuss_thecat:

lmao @ gentoo

[23:54:41]

bagpuss_thecat:

dhear Gord, We Are Here

[23:54:44]

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[23:55:05]

sinthetek:

gentoo is a perfectly viable platform with it's own merits and disadvantages just like any distro. currently, many of the advantages offered by gentoo are only available in gentoo

[23:55:28]

sinthetek:

i admit they aren't most frequently used advantages with most people

[23:56:12]

** bagpuss_thecat recalls a talk by an experienced developer espousing the wonders of Gentoo, and how it was ~15 seconds faster at rendering than Debian **

[23:56:17]

sinthetek:

but for some people/tasks they are sort invaluable

[23:56:27]

bagpuss_thecat:

after some careful promtping, he admitted the render took 20 minutes to start with :-)

[23:56:36]

directhex:

bagpuss_thecat, gcc = stop kidding yourself that you're optimizing things

[23:56:46]

sinthetek:

hah

[23:56:49]

bagpuss_thecat:

I think this was Blender

[23:57:23]

bagpuss_thecat:

it was a friend doing the talk as well. He should have bloody well known I would ask that, since he knew I ran a largeish renderfarm at the time

[23:57:41]

sinthetek:

initial render took 20min on both systems but subsequently was 15sec faster on gentoo or..?

[23:57:54]

directhex:

gcc is portable, not fast. if you're using gcc, you're really not talking about optimization, you're talking about dick-waving

[23:58:05]

directhex:

and if you don't understand a compiler flag, leave it at default

[23:58:06]

bagpuss_thecat:

admittedly the cpu-hours savings could add up... but, just... no

[23:58:23]

bagpuss_thecat:

Maya or Renderman on Gentoo? please Gord, save me. Take me away

[23:58:35]

sinthetek:

the most useful feature i find of gentoo is ability to play with different app versions with simple .ebuild modifications

[23:58:50]

directhex:

bagpuss_thecat, tell blender to use the yafray core, compile yafray fo' realz

[23:59:01]

sinthetek:

that is mostly when some version is lacking some features i really want/need or is buggy

[23:59:22]

bagpuss_thecat:

directhex: I gave up that shit 2 years ago :-)

[23:59:25]

sinthetek:

rather than wait on a bugfix or newer release i just rename package-ver1.ebuild to package-ver2.ebuild

[23:59:48]

bagpuss_thecat:

sinthetek: I use debuild in a similar manner. It's not a Gentoo advantage

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