Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, January 3rd, 2008, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:11]

siXy:

directhex: yes thats the FS i run on my backend

[00:00:23]

directhex:

siXy, wish i'd installed with xfs instead of jfs :(

[00:00:24]

Miranda_:

Does anyone know if I can use my Philips Semiconductors SAA7146, (a CCTV encoder) with MythTV?

[00:00:25]

Yahooadam:

cafuego – yeah, but then i would probably watch somthing, or sleep

[00:00:28]

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[00:00:49]

Miranda_:

it's supposed to be a DVB card

[00:00:49]

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[00:01:37]

Miranda_:

04:0c.0 Multimedia controller: Philips Semiconductors SAA7146 (rev 01)

[00:01:37]

Miranda_:

Subsystem: Unknown device 4342:4343

[00:01:38]

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[00:03:09]

siXy:

directhex: yes – i avoid jfs on linux. it seems to be one of the sloppiest GNU ports around

[00:03:33]

mzb:

I've recently been moving things around a fair bit ... I have a 500GB drive for recordings, and two tuners on a(n overclocked) BE ... I've got NFS mounts with noatime and noac, and when I watch recordings all is well ... watching live I get "burping" (consistent with overclocking diffs)

[00:03:39]

mzb:

what am I doing wrong?

[00:03:57]

siXy:

you o/ced your be??!!

[00:04:02]

mzb:

BE+FE

[00:04:11]

siXy:

wow...

[00:04:12]

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[00:04:25]

siXy:

you must enjoy pain :)

[00:04:57]

mzb:

you could say that :|

[00:05:00]

mzb:

with just USB tuner all was well (recordings drive was also in tuner BE at that stage)

[00:05:12]

mzb:

but now I have two tuners, and a remote recordings drive

[00:05:23]

mzb:

(1x USB and 1xPCI)

[00:05:42]

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[00:06:12]

** cafuego has sort of the same. **

[00:06:25]

cafuego:

except i have 2 additional abckends for commflag and transcoding as well.

[00:07:05]

mzb:

heh ... yeah ... the BE (VM) that has the 500GB drive does all the commflagging and transcoding

[00:07:08]

Yahooadam:

mzb – arent they hardware recorders?

[00:07:13]

mzb:

yes

[00:07:17]

Yahooadam:

therefore, it should mostly just move some data around, not encode or whatever

[00:07:17]

mzb:

err

[00:07:22]

mzb:

yes

[00:07:30]

Yahooadam:

why do u need to OC then?

[00:07:36]

mzb:

playback

[00:07:42]

Yahooadam:

ah

[00:07:49]

mzb:

p3–650

[00:07:56]

mzb:

just not quite fast enough

[00:08:03]

Yahooadam:

have you run mprime to test stability?

[00:08:08]

mzb:

but at 800+ it's perfect

[00:08:15]

mzb:

I know it's stable

[00:08:26]

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[00:08:31]

Yahooadam:

hmm

[00:08:35]

mzb:

I've been running it as a BE+FE for months

[00:08:44]

Yahooadam:

if you watch livetv, but let it buffer for like 10 seconds, does it help?

[00:09:17]

mzb:

heh ... yes I know what you mean ... best way to get around that is playback at 95%

[00:09:33]

mzb:

I think I'd better pull my finger out and buy some RG6

[00:09:47]

mzb:

put the tuners into the xen BE

[00:09:55]

Yahooadam:

he he

[00:10:07]

mzb:

cable I've got out there atm is **cheap**

[00:10:39]

mzb:

would solve all this rubbish

[00:10:51]

Yahooadam:

maybe a faster computer ;)

[00:11:01]

Yahooadam:

pretty cheap these days

[00:11:11]

mzb:

nope

[00:11:14]

mzb:

won't happen

[00:11:24]

Yahooadam:

howcome?

[00:11:26]

mzb:

xen BE is sempron 3400+

[00:11:34]

mzb:

MBE+FE is p3–650

[00:11:35]

Yahooadam:

ugh, sempron :p

[00:11:38]

mzb:

(loungetv)

[00:11:53]

fryfrog:

I have a mobile sempron sitting around!

[00:11:56]

mzb:

bedtv is GX150 (p3–866)

[00:12:01]

fryfrog:

my laptop came with it and 256mb ram on accident i think

[00:12:03]

** cafuego sound enough parts around the house to make an amd64 2800+ frontend :-) **

[00:12:18]

mzb:

nothing wrong wrong the sempron ... does it's job well

[00:12:22]

mzb:

s/wrong//

[00:12:24]

cafuego:

bedtv here is currently a wireless Eeepc!

[00:12:28]

mzb:

s/wrong/with/

[00:12:30]

directhex:

eeeeeeee!

[00:12:34]

** directhex is jealous **

[00:12:37]

Yahooadam:

ive got a X2 4200+ BE, my FE is a 2800+, and the familyroom FE is a 1900+

[00:12:47]

cafuego:

directhex: 's not mine, i have to give it back.

[00:12:55]

directhex:

:(

[00:12:55]

mzb:

just looking at one for Dad too ... he couldn't get a few things working so I've got it ;)

[00:13:03]

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[00:13:05]

Yahooadam:

the 2800+ is probably the quietest lolz

[00:13:07]

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[00:13:20]

mzb:

mine are quiet .... mounted under the floor :))

[00:13:31]

Yahooadam:

lol

[00:13:37]

cafuego:

my 5600+ would be the quietest if Xen would fix bloody ACPI, so it could throttle down.

[00:13:38]

Yahooadam:

quite hard when your floor is concrete :p

[00:14:05]

mzb:

cafuego: iirc that was done a long time ago ... but you needed to do something funny .... I never bothered

[00:14:35]

Yahooadam:

my dads 4200+ with 2gb ram only cost him like £150

[00:14:38]

cafuego:

mzb: /me doesn't want to do funny things on a production machine

[00:14:46]

mzb:

Yahooadam: ah :) ... yeah ... only rental + wooden floors here (most common in Tasmania) ... so I drill holes everywhere ;)

[00:14:49]

Yahooadam:

pretty cheap upgrade, especially for all that power

[00:15:04]

cafuego:

or if gigabyte fixes the bios, i could flip it to kvm instead.

[00:15:28]

Yahooadam:

the 4200+ makes a good BE though

[00:15:52]

Yahooadam:

plenty of power, enough for my 3 tuners, with commflag and transcode

[00:16:02]

Yahooadam:

(assuming i dont record 24/7)

[00:16:26]

vontrapp:

how do you get a list of all upcoming recordings, including conflicts and previously recorded from the backend? (or from the database, but i can't find that for the life of me)

[00:16:42]

Yahooadam:

vontrapp – i reccomend mythweb

[00:16:52]

vontrapp:

i'd rather not parse html

[00:16:57]

Yahooadam:

oh

[00:17:09]

vontrapp:

programmatic is what i'm looking for

[00:17:14]

mzb:

my MBE+FE (loungetv) has cost me $0

[00:17:38]

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[00:17:41]

Yahooadam:

how do you work that out?

[00:17:51]

Yahooadam:

did you steal it all, or just get donations ;)

[00:17:57]

cafuego:

it spontaneously assembled preinstalled ;-)

[00:18:26]

mzb:

whole system (2 FEs, 3 TV's, 3 remotes) has cost me ~au$70 (tuner, video cards, IR receiver parts) + $50 DTV1000-T + $150 500GB

[00:18:26]

vontrapp:

i can get a list of all upcomings from the db, but it doesn't have the conflict information

[00:18:28]

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[00:18:35]

mzb:

(including the cost of the TVs!)

[00:18:44]

mzb:

using: 69cm + 48"

[00:18:48]

mzb:

(both $0)

[00:19:50]

Yahooadam:

my BE cost me a reasonable amount, £30 for 4200+, £30 for mobo, £60 for 500gb drive, £6 for Gbe card, £30 for 4 port SATA card

[00:19:51]

mzb:

as I don't (usually) earn $ it's very difficult to get woman to allocate $ for computer parts unless it's part of the "Emergency Fix-It" fund ;)

[00:20:13]

cafuego:

speaking of

[00:20:22]

** cafuego must poke the boss about a new 1Tb hdd **

[00:20:27]

mzb:

heh

[00:20:35]

mzb:

500GB are better for $ ;)

[00:20:43]

Yahooadam:

£50 for Nova-T 500, and £110 for a WinTV 150 (but that was like 2 yrs ago)

[00:20:57]

Yahooadam:

yeah, i wish 0.21 would hurry up :p

[00:21:09]

Yahooadam:

or is it 0.20.3?

[00:21:15]

Yahooadam:

whichever supports multiple HDD's

[00:21:24]

GreyFoxx:

It will be 0.21

[00:21:33]

mzb:

you mean storage directories?

[00:21:42]

Yahooadam:

yeah that one ;)

[00:21:47]

mzb:

svn? :)

[00:21:51]

Yahooadam:

>_<

[00:22:07]

cafuego:

mzb: better for $ but then I need to ALSO invest in anew controller card, more mounting brackets, cooling...

[00:22:14]

Yahooadam:

id rather have a BE then a box in the corner and me crying in the other :p

[00:22:16]

cafuego:

SO all up I think 1Tb wins.

[00:22:16]

mzb:

true

[00:22:24]

mzb:

I've run out of SATA ports

[00:22:36]

mzb:

got 4x250GB across two machines

[00:22:45]

** cafuego has a bunch of PATA cards, but I doubt these drives come in pata flavour. **

[00:22:45]

Yahooadam:

i just upgraded my rig, so i can move my old parts to the BE :p

[00:23:03]

Yahooadam:

just waiting for a PCI-E gfx card >_<

[00:23:28]

Daviey:

4 x 500Gb in one box, and 1 x 500Gb / 1x 250Gb in my BE \o/

[00:23:31]

cafuego:

Surely the local shop has a $hardly_anything nvidia somethingorother

[00:23:39]

mzb:

thought I'd done well with the oldest one ... took six months to slowly die ... sent it to Seagate as RMA ... got replacement within 2weeks ... but it's faulty!!! ... no happy

[00:24:21]

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[00:24:40]

Yahooadam:

well i thought it would be here soonish, im not in a major rush

[00:24:48]

Yahooadam:

i must have it by friday though

[00:25:04]

Yahooadam:

they had better ship tommorow

[00:25:44]

cafuego:

oic

[00:26:05]

** cafuego ahs the luxury of living 2 minutes away from a cheap hardware shop that has everything in stock :-) **

[00:26:11]

Yahooadam:

it will be quite an upgrade to the BE though lol

[00:26:31]

Yahooadam:

Opty 185, 2gb ram, DFI SLI-DR motherboard (8 SATA ports and 2 PATA)

[00:26:47]

** cafuego had better get back to work **

[00:27:24]

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[00:27:57]

directhex:

i screwed up with my BE

[00:28:00]

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[00:28:06]

directhex:

bought the mobo a month or two early, so i got one that doesn't support core2

[00:28:53]

Yahooadam:

:(

[00:29:10]

directhex:

still, i can use a word like Enterprise in a non-ironic way

[00:29:29]

directhex:

ECC memory, LSI PCI-X hardware raid controller

[00:29:32]

Yahooadam:

oh yeah, that was interesting, i was installed supreme commander earlier, and the installed used like 3 gb ram – honestly, wtf?

[00:29:53]

Yahooadam:

installer#

[00:30:04]

directhex:

ever played Vampire: Bloodlines?

[00:30:43]

directhex:

min requirements are "384 MiB RAM"... plus 1.4GiB of swap

[00:31:15]

Yahooadam:

i havent played it no

[00:31:26]

Yahooadam:

why does it need 1.4gb swap?

[00:31:37]

directhex:

because the engine implementation is a trainwreck

[00:31:53]

Yahooadam:

it should just use the files on the HDD

[00:31:56]

Yahooadam:

why have another copy?

[00:32:13]

directhex:

it needs 2 gig of ram. but they couldnt write that on the box

[00:32:20]

Yahooadam:

lol

[00:32:35]

Yahooadam:

most games do now

[00:32:45]

Yahooadam:

if you want any kind of enjoyment

[00:33:15]

directhex:

this is from 2004

[00:33:24]

Yahooadam:

when did BF2 come out?

[00:34:03]

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[00:34:03]

directhex:

end of 2005

[00:34:21]

Yahooadam:

hmm, that is worrying then :p

[00:34:26]

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[00:34:32]

Yahooadam:

is vampire even any good?

[00:34:43]

telee:

directhex, hey whats up

[00:34:50]

Yahooadam:

you should see the crysis specs though lol

[00:35:04]

Yahooadam:

its practically best quad core, 4gb ram, tri-sli 8800Ultra

[00:35:18]

Yahooadam:

and that will only set you back like $8k

[00:35:34]

directhex:

Yahooadam, it's a good game plagued by a terrible engine implementation

[00:36:51]

directhex:

telee, i need to sleep, but i'm far too busy looking at things on the internets

[00:37:19]

telee:

lol i hear ya

[00:37:27]

telee:

where do you live?

[00:38:34]

mzb:

heh ... so cool to be able to shuffle play "Bob the Builder" (or whatever) for 2.5yo ;))

[00:38:56]

Yahooadam:

lol

[00:40:00]

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[00:40:12]

clever is now known as clever`rev

[00:40:46]

clever`rev:

would a http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info . . . ucts_id=8545 posibly be useable for lirc use over serial?

[00:40:46]

Yahooadam:

one day, one day we will be able to game on linux

[00:40:57]

clever`rev is now known as clever

[00:41:00]

directhex:

Yahooadam, vampire runs in wine!

[00:41:22]

clever:

Yahooadam: call of duty also runs fine in multiplayer in wine(without a hdd!)

[00:41:22]

Yahooadam:

yeah but does UT3 ;)

[00:41:28]

mzb:

strangely enough ... the first item in the playlist always seems to use more CPU ... regardless of what it's playing ... bit annoying

[00:41:35]

directhex:

Yahooadam, poke icculus, he's doing the port

[00:42:03]

Yahooadam:

i tried gaming in linux once, but in the end i decided it wasnt worth it

[00:42:15]

mzb:

ie. 1st item = 80%->90% whereas others are ~50%

[00:42:25]

clever:

Yahooadam: with a 1.8ghz core2 duo call of duty had no trouble under wine

[00:42:31]

Yahooadam:

probably while it buffers mzb

[00:42:43]

telee:

clever, call of duty 4?

[00:42:49]

clever:

1

[00:42:49]

mzb:

no difference in network bandwidth

[00:42:54]

clever:

original

[00:42:55]

Yahooadam:

i tried HL2 in it before clever, but it just wasnt as good

[00:42:59]

mzb:

(while it reads from nfs)

[00:43:16]

clever:

the entire os(wine+game+os) was all on nfs when i played it

[00:43:29]

clever:

so EVERYTHING went over the 100mbit including the multiplayer game itself

[00:43:41]

Yahooadam:

lol

[00:43:44]

clever:

ram helps to cache that:P

[00:43:57]

Yahooadam:

how do you boot from nfs?

[00:44:00]

clever:

i got bored and install wine+cod into my netbooting frontend image

[00:44:00]

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[00:44:17]

clever:

the bios+nic can boot pxelinux

[00:44:25]

clever:

which pulls a config+kernel+initrd over tftp

[00:44:34]

clever:

the kernel args tell it to mount a nfs server as /

[00:44:45]

clever:

then it just runs like any

[00:44:52]

clever:

'normal' linux system

[00:44:58]

Yahooadam:

sounds like alot of effort :p

[00:45:14]

clever:

but now i have 3 laptops that can boot into a mythfrontend in <3mins

[00:45:20]

clever:

without having to even touch the harddrive

[00:45:34]

Daviey:

Yahooadam: quite easy really.. btw, next version of mythbuntu will hopefully work out of the box PXE and pendrive booting \o/

[00:45:42]

clever:

i can even get all 3 streaming the same show at once

[00:45:45]

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[00:46:02]

clever:

Dave123: i had intialy setup the tftp+pxelinux to use a prebuilt image but it wasnt working

[00:46:08]

clever:

mainly because it was the wrong myth version

[00:46:09]

Daviey:

clever: how much ram have you teste dit with?

[00:46:24]

Yahooadam:

that is pretty interesting then clever

[00:46:25]

** clever ssh's into the lower of the 3 systems **

[00:46:36]

Daviey:

clever: yeah, i used a loopback mounted iso initally and that was just nasty

[00:46:43]

Yahooadam:

does that mean that you need 3 images on your server?

[00:46:52]

clever:

nope

[00:46:56]

Yahooadam:

they share 1?

[00:47:00]

clever:

yep

[00:47:07]

clever:

the /etc/hostname is missing

[00:47:09]

Yahooadam:

arent there issues with that though?

[00:47:14]

clever:

so it somehow defaults to the hostname from the dhcp server

[00:47:15]

Daviey:

well it could get nasty with locking tho :/

[00:47:27]

clever:

/var/run and a few others are on tmpfs so they are private/local

[00:47:32]

Daviey:

ahh

[00:47:42]

Daviey:

clever: looked at unionfs?

[00:47:42]

clever:

aslong as i dont apt-get on several at once i have no trobule with that

[00:47:49]

clever:

ive used it once before

[00:47:56]

clever:

laying a build dir over the myth source

[00:48:06]

clever:

so several diff distros could share a source

[00:48:19]

clever:

the remote ends locked up solid compiling when i wasnt looking

[00:48:29]

clever:

union of nfs systems

[00:48:30]

directhex:

Yahooadam, linux is a capable platform for native games. non-native games, it depends. it can be surprising

[00:48:39]

Daviey:

It could be handy for a base / then unionfs custom stuff based on mac addy?

[00:49:12]

clever:

you could just mount server:/store/fe1/etc/ on /etc/

[00:49:26]

clever:

and then have a special fstab in there for everything else

[00:49:34]

clever:

but im currently sharing EVERYTHING

[00:49:59]

Yahooadam:

i wish i had the time to mess with all this stuff ;)

[00:50:02]

clever:

heres a line from my rc.local

[00:50:03]

clever:

X -dpi 100 -terminate -config xorg.conf.`hostname` > /root/`hostname`xlog 2>&1 &

[00:50:11]

clever:

now each frontend gets its own config for the vid card

[00:50:14]

clever:

and its own log

[00:51:01]

clever:

the lowest system has 256mb ram

[00:51:01]

Yahooadam:

they should do somthing like that at my university

[00:51:05]

clever:

and none of them have swap

[00:51:16]

clever:

that was the other fun thing

[00:51:26]

clever:

ubuntu+wine+callofduty on NO SWAP!

[00:51:59]

clever:

even a full gnome ui+firefox+javaapplet is fine without swap

[00:52:19]

Yahooadam:

go write a tutorial clever :p

[00:52:23]

clever:

ive also got boinc running in the background on all those netbooting frontends

[00:52:23]

Yahooadam:

for ubuntu ;)

[00:52:36]

clever:

debootstrap was used to make a rootfs

[00:52:43]

clever:

guessed at the args and got it right

[00:53:02]

clever:

then i chroot'ed in and tweaked the initramfs.conf for nfs root and rebuilt the initrd

[00:53:28]

clever:

googling the new problem led to changing uver to the nfs-KERNEL-server package and then i had a plain cli login on my laptop

[00:53:52]

Yahooadam:

again, write a tutorial ;) :p

[00:53:52]

clever:

only major problem that remained was 127.0.0.1 was missing so statd hung for several mins on every boot

[00:54:14]

clever:

you ask the questions

[00:54:19]

clever:

i'll answer:P

[00:54:25]

mzb:

clever: nbd for swap

[00:54:26]

clever:

thats what i do every other day

[00:54:35]

clever:

mzb: yeah i could but it runs fine without swap

[00:54:39]

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[00:54:39]

Yahooadam:

yeah but i dont wanna do it right now :p

[00:54:42]

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[00:54:46]

Yahooadam:

plus i dont have a spare computer atm

[00:54:47]

clever:

mzb: :O

[00:54:49]

clever:

didnt see that

[00:54:53]

clever:

[14849.752000] Out of memory: kill process 4744 (mythfrontend) score 40321 or a child

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[00:55:11]

phiwum:

Hey ho. I have a question about recording rules.

[00:55:18]

Yahooadam:

ask away

[00:55:19]

mzb:

clever: ;)

[00:55:26]

clever:

5 diff things got killed on that box

[00:55:32]

clever:

over 3 days

[00:55:45]

clever:

but i left it on mainly to let boinc abuse the cpu while i was away from home

[00:55:47]

phiwum:

I have two rules: One applies to NHL games with the Penguins (+4 priority) and the other to all NHL games (+0 priority).

[00:55:51]

mzb:

regenerating locales? ;)

[00:56:17]

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[00:56:19]

phiwum:

The other day, I missed a game, because it was scheduled with +0 priority, even though it was my beloved Penguins.

[00:56:40]

phiwum:

How does MythTV determine which rule applies if several rules match a particular program?

[00:56:53]

clever:

i review all scheduling and fix conflicts manualy before they come up

[00:57:30]

phiwum:

I don't want to do that. The whole point is to let MythTV take care of it for me and make reasonably good choices.

[00:57:57]

clever:

i just go into the upcoming recordings list and tweak things and cancle the odd conflicting recording

[00:58:33]

Anduin:

phiwum: Is one a custom and the other not?

[00:58:54]

phiwum:

Anduin: Yes, the one that applies to Penguins games is a custom rule.

[00:59:08]

phiwum:

Anduin: It was the rule that was ignored.

[00:59:30]

mzb:

really getting into the playlist stuff for the recordings ... but sometimes, rather than shuffle, I want to watch them in _date_ order (not reverse date) ... is this possible?

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[01:00:39]

mzb:

doesn't look it ... seems like a "must have" ;)

[01:00:59]

phiwum:

mzb: Yes, it does seem like a "must have"!

[01:01:14]

mzb:

ie. watch "Battlestar Galactica" from the beginning .... might be an idea ;))

[01:01:18]

clever:

i review the upcoming recordings to make shure the rules do what i want at first

[01:01:22]

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[01:02:23]

Yahooadam:

mzb – isnt it possible?

[01:02:29]

phiwum:

clever: I did that, so I was indeed surprised when the custom rule didn't work. It showed a match, but the recording rule chosen was the other one.

[01:02:31]

mzb:

not that I can see

[01:02:31]

Anduin:

phiwum: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html there are a number of things it could be

[01:02:35]

Yahooadam:

have you looked at the options for the "recorded programs" list?

[01:03:04]

Yahooadam:

i cant remember what button it is to access it

[01:03:11]

phiwum:

Anduin: Thanks. I think I've seen that page, but I'll look it over again.

[01:03:21]

mzb:

in fact ... when I think about it ... I can't think of any situation where I'd want to watch a set of recordings in reverse order

[01:03:49]

Anduin:

phiwum: Yeah, mostly just saying a lot more detail would be needed to determine why.

[01:03:49]

mzb:

hence: a playlist should be in chronological order by default! :)

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[01:05:41]

Yahooadam:

do you have a keyboard on your frontend mzb?

[01:05:42]

phiwum:

Anduin: As far as I could see, that page is mostly about what to do when two shows both have an applicable rule (i.e., which one should record). I want to know what happens when *one* show has two applicable rules. Which rule is the "recording rule"?

[01:05:51]

phiwum:

Anduin: But I'm still reading...

[01:05:57]

Yahooadam:

or know of a way to send a key to the forground window ;)

[01:06:02]

mzb:

Yahooadam: err ... yes

[01:06:09]

Yahooadam:

i think you might need to press I or O

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[01:07:15]

Yahooadam:

but im not sure

[01:07:17]

mzb:

Yahooadam: for what purpose?

[01:07:28]

Yahooadam:

on the record programs list, there is a menu

[01:07:28]

mzb:

(I have those buttons linked to keys on my remote)

[01:07:56]

Yahooadam:

i just cant remember what button it is to access it

[01:08:00]

mzb:

I'm aware of that ... how do you think I'm getting playlists! :)

[01:08:02]

mzb:

I and M

[01:09:22]

Yahooadam:

mm maybe im mistaken

[01:09:33]

Yahooadam:

do you know how to change it from "All Programs" to "All"

[01:09:51]

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[01:10:32]

mzb:

you mean "Change Group Filter" ?

[01:10:37]

mzb:

doesn't apply

[01:10:47]

mzb:

I'm talking about adding a group to a playlist

[01:10:57]

Yahooadam:

how do you get to that?

[01:10:58]

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[01:11:01]

Yahooadam:

oh, i see what you mean

[01:11:05]

mzb:

and then playing in chronological order, rather than reverse chron

[01:11:14]

mzb:

select a group on the LHS

[01:11:45]

Yahooadam:

i see

[01:11:50]

Yahooadam:

i realise what you mean now

[01:12:00]

mzb:

M (menu), "Add this group to menu"

[01:12:03]

Yahooadam:

it would also be nice to list recordings in the RHS in chron

[01:12:28]

mzb:

that doesn't worry me as much ... being able to change sort order would be nice

[01:12:41]

mzb:

but chronological order (by default) _IS_ important

[01:12:43]

Yahooadam:

thats what i thought you ment :p

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[01:12:52]

Yahooadam:

yeah, makes sense

[01:12:54]

mzb:

I can't see ANY point in having reverse

[01:13:00]

Yahooadam:

dont think its possbile atm

[01:13:04]

mzb:

_shuffle_ is *NEAT*

[01:13:15]

Yahooadam:

i havent even messed with playlists lol

[01:13:19]

mzb:

but not what I want with some series

[01:13:26]

mzb:

great for 2.5 yo

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[01:13:52]

mzb:

I can random shuffle Bob while adding more shows to the collection ... will take her forever to figure out ;))

[01:14:03]

Yahooadam:

lol

[01:14:12]

Yahooadam:

so far its mainly just me that uses mythtv

[01:14:28]

Yahooadam:

i offered it to my dad, but he has network phobia

[01:14:32]

mzb:

the two females in the house seem to get crabby when mythboxen aren't going

[01:14:49]

mzb:

hasn't been a good week :( (adding new bits, etc)

[01:15:10]

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[01:15:48]

mzb:

I've recently convinced mine to get an eeepc ... which is nice ... pity he decided _not_ to get the|a wifi router I told him to ... wasting my time !!!

[01:16:28]

mzb:

now he's done a backflip, but wasted a month in the process ... stubborn old man :)

[01:16:37]

Yahooadam:

my dad used to know somthing about PC's, 8 years ago

[01:16:44]

mzb:

heh

[01:17:09]

Yahooadam:

but now he just blames everything on the network, or me

[01:17:26]

mzb:

Dad ain't no dummy when it comes to computers: http://www.marcusbrutus.soho.on.net/blog/?p=10

[01:17:37]

mzb:

he's just behind the times ;)

[01:18:07]

phiwum:

Anduin: Hmph. I'm afraid I haven't found the answer yet. But I'll keep thinking about it. Thanks for the help.

[01:18:30]

mzb:

100% handmade ... iirc even the transformer was hand-wound

[01:18:39]

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[01:19:23]

Yahooadam:

mzb – the difference is (or might be) my dad just refuses to learn these days

[01:19:55]

Yahooadam:

he thinks it should work the way he wants, and closes his mind to everything else

[01:20:16]

mzb:

I'm trying to get mine out of his rut (comfort zone;)

[01:20:38]

mzb:

I guess I should give him a break when he hits 70 ;)

[01:20:48]

mzb:

(~1 yr?)

[01:21:02]

Yahooadam:

sounds about right :p

[01:21:37]

mzb:

hmm ... maybe I should have started at 64 .... 128 sounds a bit late to start ;)

[01:21:52]

mzb:

afk

[01:22:05]

ferrari:

if my embedded media processor has both the decoder and encoder built-in, then I would not need a powerful CPU to do the frontend, ~500Mhz

[01:23:38]

Yahooadam:

depends if you can get them working in linux i guess

[01:23:56]

ferrari:

yeah, that's the main challenge

[01:24:11]

ferrari:

cross compile would be an issue

[01:24:36]

Yahooadam:

i think 500mhz would probably cut it though

[01:24:56]

Yahooadam:

is this a combined BE/FE, or just FE?

[01:24:57]

ferrari:

even only to support SD playback?

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[01:25:10]

ferrari:

frontend at the mean time

[01:25:25]

Yahooadam:

by cut it, i mean acceptable

[01:25:30]

Yahooadam:

so for a frontend, i think so

[01:25:35]

ferrari:

but it is going to be built and designed as a PCI card

[01:25:43]

Yahooadam:

mzb said his is 800mhz and thats combine BE/FE

[01:26:01]

ferrari:

Yeah, I mean to support just SD

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[01:26:35]

GreyFoxx:

I use to run mythfrontend on aP166 using a hardware mpeg decoder, so 500mhz is more than enough

[01:26:42]

ferrari:

so that the frontend is pluggable into any desktop PCI

[01:27:11]

ferrari:

what about for both FE and BE?

[01:27:45]

GreyFoxx:

one of the main devs runs a backend with 3 tuners in a celeron333

[01:27:48]

ferrari:

the backend would be another embedded CPU 667MHz

[01:27:59]

Yahooadam:

GreyFoxx, what hardware mpeg2 decoder did u use?

[01:28:05]

GreyFoxx:

the hardare ecoder/decoder do all the real work

[01:28:19]

GreyFoxx:

Yahooadam: I hacked in support for rhe dxr3 em8300 decoder

[01:28:33]

ferrari:

what tuner cards do you use?

[01:28:34]

mzb:

p3–650 @800 ;)

[01:28:41]

mzb:

(with xvmc)

[01:28:49]

mzb:

is good for mpeg2

[01:29:03]

GreyFoxx:

Yahooadam: My old setup screen : http://www.phaze.org/mythtv_dxr3setup.jpg

[01:29:39]

Yahooadam:

man you guys have way too much time/skill

[01:29:46]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[01:29:56]

ferrari:

have a meeting later with the boss and other engineers. the boss will want to know if it is a workable solution

[01:30:34]

ferrari:

to put mythtv on a 500Mhz CPU and hardware decoder/encoder built in media processor

[01:30:37]

Yahooadam:

ferrari, if you use hardware encoders/decoders, should be able to run both on a 500mhz cpu

[01:30:38]

GreyFoxx:

ferrari: Using DVB/ATSC sources then recording takes nothing

[01:30:43]

ferrari:

for both FE and BE or one of them

[01:30:52]

GreyFoxx:

using apvr card with a mpeg encoder takes no cpu to record

[01:31:10]

GreyFoxx:

ferrari: That could easily be done

[01:31:13]

ferrari:

i see

[01:31:57]

ferrari:

check this out, this is what I am thinking of proposing http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/applicati . . . 75014809.pdf

[01:33:17]

ferrari:

another option to the pnx1700, http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/literature/9397/75012469.pdf

[01:33:19]

GreyFoxx:

cool

[01:33:48]

ferrari:

I think the main challenge will come from the linux portion of application portion (meaning, mythtv porting)

[01:34:16]

Yahooadam:

ugh, pdf's

[01:34:32]

ferrari:

can't read pdf?

[01:34:46]

ferrari:

its size is quite small, a few KB

[01:34:46]

Yahooadam:

havent installed acroboat yet, and it takes years to load

[01:34:56]

ferrari:

hmm...

[01:35:09]

ferrari:

i use xpdf in fedora

[01:35:16]

ferrari:

it's pretty good

[01:35:17]

Yahooadam:

yeah, the joys of winblows

[01:37:17]

Yahooadam:

500mhz for HD?

[01:37:31]

ferrari:

not at the moment

[01:37:36]

ferrari:

only up to component

[01:37:39]

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[01:37:56]

Yahooadam:

ah

[01:38:58]

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[01:39:04]

Yahooadam:

will be interesting if you can make it work ;)

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[01:39:24]

ferrari:

reading the mythtv documentation. 2.4 GHz is recommended for HD (720p) if software codecs are used

[01:39:30]

Miranda_:

What's the best-supported PCI tuner card for mythtv?

[01:39:50]

Yahooadam:

what do you want to record Miranda?

[01:40:02]

ferrari:

so 1.2GHz should be ideal for hardware codecs

[01:40:09]

Miranda_:

Yahooadam, I only subscribe to 'Regular' Cable TV

[01:40:15]

ferrari:

500Mhz is not even close

[01:40:23]

Yahooadam:

i assume your in the USA then

[01:40:30]

Miranda_:

Yahooadam, Correct.

[01:40:34]

Yahooadam:

ferrari, if you use a hardware codec, the requirements should be alot lower

[01:40:54]

ferrari:

I take 50% of what mythtv doc says

[01:41:11]

Yahooadam:

at a guess or from experience

[01:41:11]

ferrari:

well, if it is really hardware codec

[01:41:21]

ferrari:

purely guess

[01:41:31]

ferrari:

haven't done any video related projects before

[01:41:54]

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[01:42:08]

Yahooadam:

Miranda_ – im not sure (im from the UK)

[01:42:12]

Miranda_:

I currently have a CCTV capture card, but not tuner.. and from my research, that seriously limits my capabilities with MythTV

[01:42:32]

Yahooadam:

i suggest the mythtv wiki, or wait for someone from the US to respond

[01:42:39]

Miranda_:

Yahooadam, ok.

[01:42:45]

Yahooadam:

i think the Hauupage PVR cards are well supported

[01:43:24]

Yahooadam:

but i dont know if that suits your TV source

[01:44:02]

Yahooadam:

ferrari – it could be as low as 10% i guess, if its a proper hardware decoder

[01:44:05]

ferrari:

if the hardware support hardware h.264 codec, is it possible to run HD in 500Mhz CPU

[01:44:23]

ferrari:

and run both FE and BE

[01:44:25]

mzb:

ferrari + Yahooadam: evince for pdf

[01:45:41]

Tanthrix:

ferrari: There is no hardware decoding support of x264 in linux.

[01:45:42]

ferrari:

mzb: my fedora 5 comes with xpdf, so I am good ;p

[01:45:57]

mzb:

ok :)

[01:46:01]

ferrari:

the driver has to come from the manufacturer, philips

[01:46:34]

Yahooadam:

out of interest, what are you trying to do?

[01:46:53]

ferrari:

embedded mythtv

[01:46:55]

Tanthrix:

ferrari: There is no chance you'll be able to do 720 x264 on a 500 mhz system. Not even close. My Athlon XP 2600+ (2GHz) couldn't even do it reliably.

[01:47:21]

Yahooadam:

Tanthrix – hes talking about doing it with a hardware decoder

[01:47:27]

ferrari:

on an embedded media processor

[01:47:46]

Tanthrix:

Yahooadam: I am aware of no hardware decoders for x264 supported in linux.

[01:47:49]

fryfrog:

there is no hardware x264 decoder

[01:47:53]

ferrari:

mzb: apparently, evince is installed in my system ;)

[01:47:53]

Tanthrix:

Not a single damn one.

[01:47:55]

fryfrog:

for linux

[01:48:15]

ferrari:

philips claims there is one

[01:48:26]

fryfrog:

someday, maybe nvidia will get their hardware x264 acceleration on their 8800 series cards working in linux... but i doubt it

[01:48:28]

Tanthrix:

Yahooadam: The only hardware assist you'll get in linux is the mpeg decoder on the PVR-350, or XvMC on a properly supported video card

[01:48:33]

fryfrog:

ferrari: sure, and it works in linux? i doubt it.

[01:48:51]

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[01:49:03]

Tanthrix:

Even with hardware decoding, if it's anythign like XvMC, you'd still need a beefy processor to handle it.

[01:49:03]

ferrari:

have sent the request to philips, but yet to hear from them

[01:49:07]

ferrari:

very slow response

[01:49:41]

Tanthrix:

ferrari: I will eat my hat if there is a linux supported x264 hardware decoder. Snowball's chance in hell, I'd give that.

[01:49:51]

ferrari:

ha ha

[01:49:53]

fryfrog:

i can predict the future: if phillips even replies, they will say there is no support at this time.

[01:50:13]

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[01:50:17]

ferrari:

I guess the APIs are not based on linux

[01:50:25]

fryfrog:

they may also say they have no plans to support it in the future

[01:50:38]

ferrari:

well, I expected that

[01:50:48]

ferrari:

so I have told my boss NO HD at this moment

[01:50:51]

mkrufky:

i think you'll all change your tune very soon

[01:51:09]

Tanthrix:

ferrari: If you want to do x264 HD, I'd recommend a minimum 3GHz system. MPEG2 HD is much less intensive though, so it doesn't need nearly as much.

[01:51:14]

ferrari:

getting mythtv to support SD or even component on a 500Mhz is already a chanllenge

[01:51:44]

Tanthrix:

My 800mhz frontend can barely keep up. Myth is a bit bloated in that regard.

[01:51:45]

fryfrog:

mkrufky: you mean that there will be hardware x264 in linux soon?

[01:52:08]

mkrufky:

sagetv just came out with a linux-based stb

[01:52:15]

Yahooadam:

if they get ATI drivers working, its quite possible

[01:52:19]

fryfrog:

neat

[01:52:22]

mkrufky:

im not sure if the code is all gpl'd or not, but this is a start

[01:52:38]

ferrari:

cool... linux is the way to go

[01:52:50]

Tanthrix:

Right now, I'd settle for good multi-threaded decoding. That would do the trick for me to do 1080p, possibly.

[01:53:00]

mkrufky:

yeah, that would certainly be nice

[01:53:02]

fryfrog:

i bet it'll be like tivo, where they only release what the y have to

[01:53:09]

ferrari:

1080p at what frequency

[01:53:17]

fryfrog:

1hz

[01:53:44]

mkrufky:

fryfrog: yeah, but you know that after one company does it, some other company will probably come out with something similar soon after

[01:54:01]

mkrufky:

eventually somebody will crack whatever

[01:54:12]

mkrufky:

or maybe someone will actually release source

[01:54:18]

mkrufky:

but i dont think its as impossible as most say

[01:54:36]

** mkrufky is optimistic **

[01:54:41]

fryfrog:

true

[01:54:42]

Tanthrix:

ferrari: I can already do 720p without breaking a sweat on one core. I think with multi-threaded decoding I have a shot at being able to do 1080p. Maybe not though.

[01:54:43]

Yahooadam:

if they could use Nvidia, or ATI hardware to do it, it would be quite easy

[01:54:48]

** Tanthrix is a realist **

[01:55:17]

fryfrog:

i think the neatest thing on the horizon is MS and DirecTV cooperating

[01:55:25]

fryfrog:

Vista MCE + Satalite PCI card?

[01:55:26]

fryfrog:

kind of neat

[01:55:31]

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[01:55:33]

fryfrog:

with HD? even neatier

[01:55:49]

Yahooadam:

with a big chocolate cake, great

[01:57:10]

fryfrog:

but it'll probably be just like the cablecard pci cards... no hope of the linux

[01:57:29]

fryfrog:

i'd gladly pay for directv and a pci dtv card or two

[01:58:06]

Yahooadam:

impossible to create a secure path in linux though

[01:58:21]

Yahooadam:

atleast with windows its a big black box which makes it incredibly difficult

[01:58:26]

fryfrog:

really, you can say the same thing about windows ;)

[01:58:47]

fryfrog:

anything in the hands of the enemy is "insecure" when you get down to it.

[01:59:12]

Yahooadam:

yeah but in linux you have full control of the kernel and stuff

[01:59:21]

Yahooadam:

in windows, you only have the illusion of any control

[02:02:12]

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[02:02:31]

bmw:

damn network is always down

[02:02:43]

bmw:

I was ferrari before, not changed to bmw

[02:04:08]

_flindet:

Hi, I have a Niveus PC Remote control and I've got it working with lirc. However, most of the buttons (including key buttons like volume) do not repeat in irw, therefore they are a real pain in Myth. Does anyone know how to force a remote to repeat when the key is pressed? I used this same remote with a modified ati_remote driver long ago where repeating worked fine.

[02:04:10]

bmw:

my plan is to open source the embedded mythtv platform

[02:05:36]

Yahooadam:

ffs

[02:05:39]

Yahooadam:

2am again

[02:05:45]

Yahooadam:

gnite all

[02:05:54]

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[02:09:03]

Miranda_:

Can I use any of these "dodgy" tv tuner cards as long as the chipset is supported?

[02:09:12]

Miranda_:

or does the card need to be fully supported?

[02:10:22]

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[02:20:41]

Tanthrix:

_flindet: If it doesn't work in irw, then it's not going to work in myth. I mean, the only thing that could be done is to force a repeat for every key since it can't read your mind, and that would obviously not be so beneficial ;)

[02:21:55]

Tanthrix:

_flindet: Repeat has always seemed to be a bit wonky for me with lirc, so I just don't use it personally. With a page up and page down button, it's not a big deal.

[02:22:02]

_flindet:

Tanthrix: Yeah, that's what I was afraid of

[02:22:40]

_flindet:

What's blowing my mind is someone in here actually modified the ati_remote driver (not lirc, but a kernel module) that DID repeat keys fine. Of course, after a while he stopped maintaining it and it doesn't work with current kernels

[02:22:41]

_flindet:

bummer

[02:23:13]

_flindet is now known as flindet

[02:23:15]

Tanthrix:

_flindet: I'd say pick up a MCE usb reciever and driver. I grabbed one on ebay for $25, and I absolutely love it.

[02:23:35]

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[02:24:03]

Miranda_:

*sniff* I can't decide on a TV tuner!

[02:24:10]

levander` is now known as levander

[02:24:16]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: What are you looking for?

[02:25:02]

levander:

Is there any reason to run more than 1GB RAM on a dedicated MythTV box?

[02:25:25]

flindet:

sorry Tanthrix, I'm not sure what an MCE usb receiver and driver is. Can you give an example?

[02:25:46]

Tanthrix:

levander: From what I can tell, the db is really the only ram hungry thing. I've been perfectly fine with my 1GB in my box, doing x264 720p at the high end

[02:25:49]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, cheap, preferably hardware decoding, and something that's supported by MythTV

[02:26:08]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, i settled on the ASUS card.. hang on for model

[02:26:22]

flindet:

Tanthrix: Oh, media center???

[02:26:28]

Miranda_:

AverMedia AverTV M150-D

[02:26:33]

Tanthrix:

flindet: Basically, it's a Microsoft usb reciever/ir blaster combo kit with remote. Here's one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-MCE-Wireless-Re . . . cmdZViewItem

[02:26:47]

flindet:

Thank you, Tanthrix

[02:26:48]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, but it doesnt have a remote!

[02:27:20]

levander:

I just found out my desktop box doesn't support more than 3.2 GB RAM, so I'm thinking of taking 2BG of the 4GB I have for it, and switching it with the 1GB in my MythTV box. But, I'm really thinking the MythTV box won't even use the extra 1GB of RAM.

[02:27:32]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: For analog cable in the US, get a PVR-150. Don't mess around with anything else.

[02:27:44]

flindet:

Tanthrix: So, you have this? Does repeat work okay? Is it a universal to control the tv, etc. as well?

[02:28:10]

flindet:

Tanthrix: And are you using it with lirc or something else?

[02:28:21]

Tanthrix:

flindet: I believe it does. At the very least, I can hold a button down and irw will show it running past until I let go. Actually, compared to my old serial reciever, this thing kicks ass. Even works when the remote is under a blanket

[02:28:32]

Tanthrix:

flindet: Plain ole lirc.

[02:28:55]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, should the one you have in mind come with a remote?

[02:28:59]

flindet:

Tanthrix: Sorry for all the questions. I promise I'm googling too. Is it RF?

[02:29:20]

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[02:29:31]

flindet:

The niveus I have is RF. It absolutely ROCKS. Goes through walls, whatever. But the stupid repeat is kicking my butt.

[02:29:32]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: I love my MCE remote and reciever so much that I'd never part with it. I've personally never owned a tuner card that came with a remote and all that jazz.

[02:29:41]

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[02:29:50]

Tanthrix:

flindet: No problem, I'm happy to help. And no, it's IR. Just has a great reciever.

[02:30:00]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, what MCE Remote do you have, and what do I do when the TV signals go digital in '09?

[02:30:08]

flindet:

right on. Thank you very much for the help, Tanthrix

[02:30:37]

Tanthrix:

flindet: No prob. Just make sure if you get one you double check the wiki. I think they're all supported now, but there were a few versions out there had less than great support a while back.

[02:31:08]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: The one shown in that ebay link above. I forget the exact model. ANd with regards to digital, that's tricky.

[02:31:21]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: You have cable or do OTA?

[02:32:22]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, cable.

[02:32:27]

Miranda_:

BASIC cable :)

[02:32:37]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: With cable, You often end up getting stuck with analog anyway, since more often than not all your channels are encrypted, both in QAM and with regards to firewire.

[02:32:38]

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[02:33:01]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: So in those situations, you need a PVR card, a cable box, and an ir blaster or firewire link up to change channels on the cable box.

[02:33:01]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, so you think the cable co will demux all my channels down to analog still?

[02:33:11]

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[02:33:17]

Miranda_:

I don't use a cable box currently

[02:33:40]

Miranda_:

oh, I see now

[02:33:55]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: Well, they aren't required to switch to digital, so a lot of them are going to be doing analog past 2009 by a few years at least. And if at some point they require you to get a box, unless you're lucky you'll still need an analog card.

[02:34:23]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: Digital cable is complex. Read this to get a full idea of what your options are with it: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Recording_Digital_Cable

[02:34:53]

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[02:35:45]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: I think the ideal setup is a PVR-150, and if you have an HD set, a ATSC/QAM card for getting the over the air free channels in high definition. If you're really lucky, you might be able to get some of your premium (ie, non OTA) channels over the QAM card.

[02:36:27]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, okay, thanks... back to the previous subject, is this the same as the hauppage? http://cgi.ebay.com/WINTV-PVR-150-Tuner-card_ . . . cmdZViewItem

[02:36:54]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: You'll want to avoid all the digital cards that have analog support, at least for now. None of them have hardware encoding, so they are pretty much useless with regards to doing analog. They're fine for digital, just don't think "Oh, I'll get a card that can do both!""

[02:37:23]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: Aye, that looks good to me.

[02:38:12]

Miranda_:

Tanthrix, ahh, thanks for the clarification. On both counts

[02:38:43]

Tanthrix:

Miranda_: And I should rephrase that just to be more clear: don't avoid digital cards that have analog support, just don't use that feature if you do get one.

[02:39:02]

Tanthrix:

And no prob. Happy to help.

[02:39:14]

Miranda_:

I need to read a bit, I'll be back :)

[02:40:06]

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[03:12:20]

AngryElf:

I've got a recording schedule set up – it's already set off a recording, if I change it to end late by a few minutes will the current recording be affected by this change?

[03:12:50]

cesman:

yes

[03:12:52]

J-e-f-f-A:

AngryElf: Yes,

[03:12:58]

AngryElf:

ty

[03:13:04]

J-e-f-f-A:

cesman: Hey, that's not fair! ;-)

[03:13:07]

cesman:

yw

[03:13:16]

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[03:14:10]

J-e-f-f-A:

cesman: That's not an SVN-only feature is it? Or did it come in .20?

[03:15:50]

Tanthrix:

Bleh, SD's listings are totally fubar for PBS HD. I hope they can get this fixed, I watch this channel all the time

[03:16:50]

Tanthrix:

AngryElf: You have to go to Upcoming recordings, then you can do it from there. You need to choose the option "Change Ending Time." I don't think you can do it the regular way, or from the main recordings menu

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[04:01:22]

** xris curses the unstable firewire drivers **

[04:02:36]

Tanthrix:

Still having problems with Fedora 7?

[04:02:41]

xris:

yeah

[04:02:55]

xris:

it's also mythbackend

[04:03:06]

xris:

randomly records zero-byte shows

[04:03:23]

Tanthrix:

Ever consider reverting, or using a different distro? I think that on the third month of problems I'd probably want to switch to something else ;)

[04:03:36]

J-e-f-f-A:

Hi xris...

[04:03:45]

xris:

Tanthrix: I keep hoping things will get better

[04:03:53]

xris:

and don't have time to change anything at the moment, anyway

[04:04:19]

xris:

it's actually the "backend eats all cpu when rendering preview pixmaps" bug that got me this time.

[04:04:35]

Tanthrix:

xris: You must not be a good gambler, like me. "Alright, I've got $1000 in the hole now, but it's surely going to pay off big if I just wait a little bit longer!"

[04:04:41]

xris:

forced me to reboot (after killing the backend killed the firewire bus), which delayed me past the show start.

[04:04:42]

J-e-f-f-A:

xris: What's responsible for the 'recordings' preview images? I disabled them in mythweb because the backend would peg the cpu – without the preview images 250+ recordings show in just a few seconds...

[04:04:58]

xris:

Tanthrix: nah... I"m smart enough not to *start* gambling

[04:05:11]

J-e-f-f-A:

wow... I didn't read your msg... that answered my issue... ;-)

[04:05:14]

xris:

J-e-f-f-A: it's a bug in mythbackend's fork code.

[04:05:18]

Tanthrix:

xris: Same for me, thankfully. But that mentality cost me 30 min at the local grocery store the other day. The computer was down so I couldn't buy anything. So I waited. And then I waited.

[04:05:31]

xris:

I have a quad core in my mythbox so I get a little more leeway.

[04:05:33]

xris:

but it's still annoying

[04:05:37]

Tanthrix:

xris: At 15 min I thought "Ok, if I leave, it will start working...." And so on.

[04:06:10]

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[04:06:18]

Tanthrix:

I heard later that it started working about half an hour after left. I was almost ready to go down with the ship and spend the whole night there though, with my comrades in line.

[04:06:31]

J-e-f-f-A:

Tanthrix: Yeah, I thought the same thing... But then I noticed that any time I accessed the recordings screen on mythweb, that mythbackend started to loop... ;-)

[04:06:46]

** xris just gets the bug report emails. :) **

[04:06:56]

xris:

my backend is sitting at 200% cpu use now

[04:07:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

xris: Yeah, mine was sitting at 186%... (AMD X2 4600+)

[04:07:34]

xris:

it's at 399% that I get worried

[04:07:37]

J-e-f-f-A:

xris: er... make that mythbackend was using 186%

[04:07:46]

xris:

janneg supposedly has a fix, but hasn't had time to post it to the ticket yet

[04:08:15]

Tanthrix:

There is no such thing as 100+ precent usage! A dual core CPU has 50 percent on one core, and 50 on another. None of this 200 percent business!

[04:08:34]

J-e-f-f-A:

I may just leave it disabled... the 'recordings' screen is always terribly slow on my machine, with 260+ shows on a regular basis... It's at least 20x faster without the preview images...

[04:08:44]

** Tanthrix becomes a cranky shutin **

[04:09:17]

Tanthrix:

xris: By the way, are you the one who handles the SD line up issues?

[04:09:59]

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[04:10:27]

xanderp:

hello all

[04:10:45]

J-e-f-f-A:

"All's not here!" ;-)

[04:10:48]

xanderp:

hehe

[04:10:55]

xris:

Tanthrix: no.. robert kulagowski is in charge of linup issues (our one "employee")

[04:11:02]

Tanthrix:

Gotcha.

[04:11:29]

Tanthrix:

How successful generally is SD at getting TMS to fix line up issues? Pretty decent, or are you guys too small potatoes for them to care about?

[04:12:49]

xanderp:

looking for anyone with experience getting a usb hd tuner working with mythtv. I picked up one on black friday, and the manuf. actually is 'somewhat' linux friendly. (kernel drivers w/binary firmware) but I can't get it to work.

[04:13:52]

xanderp:

this is the link i'm trying to follow, but it just isn't jivving for me: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/AVerTV_DVB-T_Volar

[04:14:19]

xris:

they fix what we report, but we have a hard time verifying *when* they fix it...

[04:14:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

xanderp: I have a couple of HVR-950 HD tuners, but my attempt to get them working in Linux broke my other tuners, so it's been sitting on my desk for months now. I intend to setup a slave backend with just them, from an old laptop...

[04:14:36]

xanderp:

I think my volar is a newer version or something.

[04:14:43]

xris:

we're working on getting them to be better about that.

[04:14:45]

xanderp:

J-e-f-f-A ahh...

[04:14:59]

Tanthrix:

xris: That's good to hear at least. I've got a big issue right now with one channel not having data, and the main PBS HD channel for Oregon having data from a different channel entirely.

[04:15:03]

xris:

and one of the main reasons we want to host the data on our own servers (whenever we get some) is so we can implement our own local corrections sooner.

[04:15:18]

xris:

and you reported the issue through the form?

[04:15:38]

xanderp:

you guys talking about the listings?

[04:15:53]

J-e-f-f-A:

xanderp: I don't know if yours uses the same chipset and/or kernel driver as the HVR-950...

[04:16:12]

xris:

yeah

[04:16:15]

xanderp:

who makes that one? this ones an avermedia.

[04:16:23]

xanderp:

is that hauppauge?

[04:16:28]

J-e-f-f-A:

xanderp: Yes.

[04:17:05]

Tanthrix:

xris: Aye. The first problem a few days ago, and the more recent problem a few minutes ago.

[04:17:52]

xanderp:

i'm currently doing a yum update on my frontend box and after that's done will try to get it to see the usb stick using the url i posted above. It's been quite a while since I tried last time, so maybe something is fixed now that was broken before.

[04:17:56]

xris:

it usually takes them at least a day to respond. we do apparently overwhelm them with issues. apparently we're the most vocal group among their customers as far as noticing/reporting proboems.

[04:18:00]

xris:

problems

[04:18:51]

xanderp:

i like to 'test' out stuff on the frontend, so as to not screw with my recordings. once I get the bugs out in the 'testing' environment, i take it to 'production'

[04:18:52]

Tanthrix:

xris: Not surprising. Hopefully that won't make them start ignoring SD.

[04:19:21]

xris:

it's more about improving the lines of communication

[04:19:38]

xris:

a couple of us are meeting up with them at CES next week to chat and try to make things friendlier.

[04:19:53]

** xris wishes he had the time off to go along **

[04:20:06]

Tanthrix:

Are they contractually bound to deal with support issues?

[04:20:17]

xris:

not actually sure...

[04:20:25]

xris:

and if I was, I couldn't talk about details of the contract, anyway

[04:20:33]

xanderp:

waving contracts around is the best way to make enemies... trust me on that one.

[04:20:56]

Tanthrix:

xanderp: Regardless, it's the only way to protect yourself in the business world.

[04:21:10]

Tanthrix:

xanderp: As much as I'd like to be a "shake hands and it's done" kind of guy

[04:21:13]

xris:

TMS keeps people pretty tight-lipped about their contracts. they don't want any of their customers to find out what any of the others are paying.

[04:21:36]

xris:

(among other things)

[04:21:43]

xris:

even their retail rate card is kept relatively secret.

[04:22:04]

Tanthrix:

Delightful.

[04:22:11]

xanderp:

Using a contract as a strangle hold on a bus relationship is also the best way to END a bus relationship also.

[04:22:49]

cafuego:

oooh! new drivers for my tuner card.

[04:22:52]

** cafuego excited **

[04:23:53]

xris:

Tanthrix: it's not just about the data, but who is allowed access, etc... like how SD can't give memberships to people who would use the SD data for tivo apps.... some other customer who does a tv web page like zap2it.com might not be allowed to do anything *but* web page access.

[04:24:01]

xris:

and they have different rates for all of that stuff

[04:24:38]

Tanthrix:

I suppose when dealing with IP it makes things more murky.

[04:25:14]

Tanthrix:

IE, they need to charge more for a person who redistributes it to a thousand people than just a single user, even though it's the same data, etc.

[04:25:34]

xris:

yup

[04:25:45]

xris:

and recoup their own costs in collecting the data...

[04:25:53]

Tanthrix:

And I suppose they need to keep that secret to avoid people going the cheap way, even if it violates their agreement

[04:26:05]

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[04:26:13]

xris:

like when you report a lineup issue, they actually go and call the cable company (or whoever) to make sure that it's really an issue.

[04:26:16]

Cod-er:

any one know if MYTHTV can be run of a Thin Client

[04:26:24]

xanderp:

Businesses that have 'closed door' prices tend to do so to rip off the customer. It's the same reason that employers ban employees from openly discussing their compensation packages. They can't unfairly compensate people if everyone knows what everyone else is making.

[04:26:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

xanderp: That looks like it will work almost 'out of the box'...

[04:26:35]

xris:

Cod-er: "thin client" is a pretty vague term....

[04:27:03]

xris:

Cod-er: but you can pretty easily get a net-boot or compact-flash boot frontend

[04:27:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

I think he means run on a 'thin client'...

[04:27:09]

xanderp:

J-e-f-f-A: that's what I thought when I bought it, but I think it's a firmware issue.

[04:27:23]

Cod-er:

xris: thast the idea.. but what kinda hardware would i need to run video?

[04:27:37]

Cod-er:

like processor wise i mean

[04:27:51]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: I think most thin clients are like "Terminal Services/Remote Desktop" based...

[04:27:53]

xris:

Cod-er: that's like asking what kind of soap to use to wash a thing

[04:28:11]

Cod-er:

xris, : ssl encrypted on of course!

[04:28:24]

Cod-er:

well im scouting for something ceap

[04:28:27]

Cod-er:

i was looking at HP t5135 RK271AT Thin Client – VIA 400MHz, 64MB Flash, 128MB RAM, HP ThinConnect

[04:28:39]

xris:

Cod-er: what kind of video? what resolution? what kind of network connection? what kind of device are you outputting to?

[04:28:41]

Cod-er:

i think i can reflash with with a linux idstro. has 192 megs of flash

[04:29:01]

xris:

we run neolinux on HP thin clients at work...

[04:29:06]

xris:

not much horsepower there.

[04:29:14]

Cod-er:

xirs: VGA monitor, standard TV or DVB resolution, probably MPEG or nvuppl, user as a front end myth

[04:29:15]

xris:

you *might* be able to get SD video playback

[04:29:42]

xris:

might be easier to build your own diskless frontend, though... and use a decent video card, which will help a lot with scaling.

[04:29:49]

xanderp:

i have a KVER variable set to be my kernel version, but can't seem to remember the syntax to append that to the end of my yum statement... isn't it somthing like 'yum install ivtv-kmdl-$KVER'

[04:29:50]

Tanthrix:

I wouldn't even try on anything less than 1Ghz, or maybe 800mhz in a crunch with good XvMC support setup

[04:30:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

... and probably only if it has a supported mpeg2 accelleration...

[04:30:12]

xris:

500mhz p3 is generally considered the bottom range for SD resolution

[04:30:19]

Cod-er:

xris: the hope thoug is SMALL, the smalles CPU i have is a CUBE and thats with a mini atx board..

[04:31:10]

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[04:31:11]

Cod-er:

so a VIA Eden 800 MHz with a VIA S3 Graphics wont pull it then..

[04:31:21]

kmyth:

how do i get mythbackend to start automatically?

[04:31:39]

kmyth:

every time i reboot i have to run mythbackend setup to start it

[04:31:39]

Cod-er:

kmyth, att mythbackend to your rc.local?

[04:31:53]

Cod-er:

kmyth: now to do it PROPERLY gatta tell me the distro

[04:32:01]

kmyth:

mythbuntu :)

[04:32:08]

Cod-er:

*shurg*

[04:32:12]

xris:

Cod-er: no clue... 800mhz c3 might

[04:32:14]

kmyth:

seems like it would be configured to do that out of the box

[04:32:34]

xris:

it depends entirely on too many choices... I mean, you could record at 160x120 rtjpeg and probably be just fine

[04:32:39]

xris:

480x480 rtjpeg might also work

[04:32:43]

Cod-er:

kmyth: try chkconfig mythbackend --level 345 on

[04:32:43]

xris:

480x480 mpeg might not.

[04:32:53]

Cod-er:

xris, : what about embeded boards?

[04:33:18]

xris:

Cod-er: the honest answer is that there's no real way to know without trying.

[04:33:36]

xris:

you could get *something* to work... just might not like the quality of video that you're limited to.

[04:33:40]

xris:

afk

[04:33:53]

Cod-er:

xris: i guess what im trying to asses here is i KNOW there are FTA units wich are completly linx based and they pull HD TV using vdr,

[04:34:07]

Cod-er:

i wanna get something nice and small...

[04:34:52]

xanderp:

Cod-er: how about a mac mini?

[04:35:06]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: My router is linux based, but it can't run mythtv... ;-)

[04:35:23]

Cod-er:

j-e-f-f-a: no vga port, hoo k one up then youll be abel to

[04:35:30]

Cod-er:

j-e-f-f-a: there is a how to on open wrt!

[04:36:03]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: Yeah, but its nowhere near fast enough to display video. Trust me — even a desktop pc can't display full-motion video on a usb vga adapter. (I have one...)

[04:36:24]

** Tanthrix still thinks the problem is often better to approach by finding out a way to hide the big and noisy computer, instead of attempting to build a costly, underpowered tiny and quiet one **

[04:36:25]

xanderp:

I'm running it on a hacked up TomTom on my dash! ;)

[04:36:50]

Cod-er:

j-e-f-f-a: yeh i know.. im just seeing what i can swing....

[04:37:03]

Sedorox:

does MythTV not like to be routed?

[04:37:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

ooh! finally a real use for a TomTom!!! ;-)

[04:37:22]

Cod-er:

j-e-f-f-a: like i said i saw small linux based boxes pulling hd tv, i just want somethign cheap and SD

[04:37:25]

Tanthrix:

IF you've got a closet or a basement or anything similiar within 10–15 feet of your TV, it's no problem to fully hide a big noisy desktop.

[04:37:41]

xanderp:

TomTom, I need to find a DrinkDrink, please find the closest BarBar.

[04:37:50]

Tanthrix:

I've got mine in adjacent closet, yielding utter quietness and an invisible computer, despite being powerful.

[04:37:55]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: But those boxes are probably custom boards, with specific drivers for their on-board mpeg decoders...

[04:37:55]

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[04:38:11]

xanderp:

Looooong VGA cable.

[04:38:16]

Tanthrix:

15ft DVI cable, long USB cable on the IR blaster, same for audio, and I'm good.

[04:38:56]

Cod-er:

J-e-f-f-A: yeh. i guess... just be nice to have a TV in the kitchen with access to music, camera, and throuh in some video too..

[04:39:06]

xanderp:

how about a cable converter that converts the video to 'cable channel 3' and you can then run RG6 to wherever...

[04:39:09]

Cod-er:

J-e-f-f-A: i want somethign small i can mount there...

[04:39:25]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: Perhaps a MediaMVP would work for you (frontend only of course)...

[04:39:34]

Cod-er:

xanderp, : tose suck.. get a real modulator.. and pipe video on like channel 50 without distruting the other ones

[04:39:47]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: In a kitchen you've got plenty of cabinents right? Hide a computer in there.

[04:39:48]

Cod-er:

xanderp, the channel 3 modulatorors are cheap and take down channels 2–100

[04:39:53]

xanderp:

Cod-er: or that...

[04:40:00]

xanderp:

:)

[04:40:16]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : no, the tv is out in the open near the cealing.

[04:40:31]

Cod-er:

wats mediamvp?

[04:40:39]

xanderp:

I was actually meaning to use a 'private' piece of coax directly from the channel3 to the tv.

[04:40:45]

xanderp:

dedicated

[04:40:48]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: So? Easy enough to run the cables behind the wall, or do wire mold if you're not comfortable with that kind of work.

[04:41:07]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : no i alredy wired the house.. there is NO way to run wires anymore

[04:41:17]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: It's a network media player, that has a partial mythfrontend that runs on it.

[04:41:20]

Cod-er:

they filled the walls with inselent

[04:41:45]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Nonsense. With a long enough drill bit and fish tape, you can do anything. Even in full foamed walls.

[04:42:02]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : i had enough of the blown cealing...

[04:42:08]

Tanthrix:

hehe

[04:42:15]

Tanthrix:

I suppose it does lose its charm after a while.

[04:42:25]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : at that point id rater get modulators with Ir and a whole closet full of pcs!

[04:42:56]

Tanthrix:

If I build my own house some day, I'm going to do that I think. Makes life much more easy.

[04:42:56]

kmyth:

Cod-er, hrm mythbackend is already enabled for runlevels 2–5... wtf

[04:43:12]

Cod-er:

kmyth: makes sure that its S not K

[04:43:19]

Cod-er:

kmyth: check error log?

[04:44:00]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : my buddy put in in wall i sensors.. to bad he put some on opposite walls to a sunny window.. sun's ar over powers the remote :-P

[04:44:11]

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[04:44:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

Cod-er: google "mediamvp" for the box itself, or check out http://www.mvpmc.org/ for the software that provides the myth frontend...

[04:44:35]

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[04:44:37]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Hehe, good thing to know about in advance.

[04:44:41]

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[04:44:45]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I'll have to remember that.

[04:44:45]

Cod-er:

=)

[04:44:58]

xanderp:

i forgot to wire for remotes in my theater room.. to use remotes someone in the back row has to point the remote over their head backwards!

[04:44:58]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : the COAX IR is awsome.. i wanna get some

[04:45:13]

Cod-er:

xanderp, : you can modulate IR over coax...

[04:45:23]

Cod-er:

xander: or get ir repeaters

[04:45:32]

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[04:45:45]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I was more thinking along the lines of Cat-5e/6 with those crazy adapters to do dvi/vga/usb/whatever long distance. Then you can just plug all that stuff in on the end.

[04:46:05]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I'd probably want to make my own though. The jacks are like 50–100 from what I saw, when really they're just a couple of baluns and such

[04:46:21]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : carefull.. cat-5e is NOT shielded and screwed everuting up

[04:46:46]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : trust me.. i had a CAT-5e – useb umm hacked together cabling... for a door i put together.. BAD MOVE

[04:46:48]

xanderp:

Have to run power to it is the only down side.

[04:46:54]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: That is one concern. I know there are definite limits on what you can do with it.

[04:47:13]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix: whiel wiring i ran 2 cat5e and 2 coaxes to every room

[04:47:21]

rushfan:

you can really use cat to extend vga/usb signal length?

[04:47:33]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I was just going to say that I would probably do that very thing, since coax is still far, far from dead.

[04:47:40]

xanderp:

there's whole websites on it, but not sure of the quality

[04:47:46]

Cod-er:

rushfan, : yes i did it at work.. but got some bleading!

[04:47:56]

Tanthrix:

rushfan: Yes, with varying degrees of success. I'd suspect analog stuf like VGA would work better than some things though

[04:48:04]

rushfan:

Cod-er: not surprising at all

[04:48:10]

rushfan:

I get bleeding with an actual VGA cable

[04:48:10]

rushfan:

heh

[04:48:11]

xanderp:

you could separate the signals on several different runs of cat5

[04:48:14]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix: coax is great for VIDEO cat5 for DATA

[04:48:16]

rushfan:

It clearly isnt shieled well

[04:48:35]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: What's the difference these days? ;)

[04:48:52]

xanderp:

rushfan: it also has to do with which pairs you use for which signals

[04:49:01]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: (I jest – I just meant that despite Cat5 taking over and everything going digital, we still use coax for pretty much all video stuff)

[04:49:03]

Cod-er:

xanderp, : and the lenght of the twist..

[04:49:18]

xanderp:

cat6 is pretty cheap these days too.

[04:49:32]

Cod-er:

thanth: i also ran speaker wire to every room..

[04:49:33]

rushfan:

xanderp: I got a 100ft cat6 cable for $11

[04:49:44]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Speaking of which, I've been meaning to order myself a nice cable stripper and compression crimper. Comcast's wire tacking job to the outside of my house annoys me a little more every day ;)

[04:49:49]

rushfan:

The quality is just fine too

[04:50:05]

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[04:50:08]

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[04:50:14]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix: just gatta figure out get a nice juke box in ther server downstainrs and boom house wide audio.. who need sonos!

[04:50:15]

xanderp:

fiber would be the cat's meow, if the stuff that uses it weren't so expensive.

[04:50:34]

kmyth:

Cod-er, looks like NFS share for recordings is getting mounted after mythbackend starts

[04:50:54]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Hehe, that'd be nice.

[04:50:56]

Cod-er:

kmyth, so move mythtv to like 99 or something...

[04:51:04]

rushfan:

Or use InitNG

[04:51:09]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : i got the cabling done.. just need a prog but cant find anyting nice...

[04:51:16]

rushfan:

An init service that doesnt blow. It'll actually drastically increase your boot time as well

[04:51:32]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, :mpd works badly... and jinzora doesnt interface nicly with it

[04:51:43]

kmyth:

rushfan, what's up with initng?

[04:51:44]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : final step is to get thei thin client for remote control of audio :)

[04:51:57]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I'm not so hot on the idea of house wide anything. I can't see myself using it very much. I'd prefer a more simple setup. I would like the ability to be able to transfer the video from one room to another though.

[04:52:03]

rushfan:

kmyth: what do you mean?

[04:52:09]

rushfan:

Its a "Next Generation" init system.

[04:52:25]

Cod-er:

kmyth, : to into you /etc/init.d/rc5.d and rename S09mythbackend to S99mythbackend

[04:52:29]

rushfan:

Rather than initializing things in linear order, it can do parallel processes, and loads things as soon as all dependencies are met

[04:52:31]

kmyth:

what advantages does it have over sysv?

[04:52:33]

Cod-er:

might not be s09 might be liek s99

[04:52:40]

kmyth:

ah

[04:52:49]

rushfan:

kmyth: Basically, all that stuff = faster

[04:52:54]

xanderp:

'house wide audio'.. oh, you mean the volume knob?

[04:52:55]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Like have a main media room, then a setup in every bedroom, kitchen, and maybe even the garage to put a TV with myth setup, and able to be expandable from a central point.

[04:53:01]

xanderp:

;)

[04:53:29]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Just not sure how far I can push DVI video without having to spend big money on repeaters and such, and also any av sync issues that might arrise because of that

[04:53:38]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : i just gonna get a ir modulator. and pipe myth over channel 98 or something and put ir blasters in every room...

[04:54:08]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, then all i need to do is walk into a room.. change to chanel 98 and im watching myth!

[04:54:12]

xanderp:

wonder what a HD modulator would cost, then you could pipe HD content out....

[04:54:18]

Cod-er:

=)

[04:54:20]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: I want HD support though. Even if not much is HD these days, it's nice to have, and it sure makes the UI look wonderful.

[04:54:31]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Still, that's a very slick setup ;)

[04:54:52]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : dont have and hd box =( and my ATSC for hd by plextor is not yet supported

[04:55:09]

** J-e-f-f-A has pseudo-hd — all his frontends are computer monitors, except the x-box in my son's room... ;-) **

[04:55:21]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: You'll get bit by the bug at some point, just you wait.

[04:55:26]

xanderp:

my xbox network card died... :(

[04:55:28]

rushfan:

My DLP projector has ome kickass hd

[04:55:37]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : i just dont havre $$$

[04:56:00]

** J-e-f-f-A doesn't like DLP... rainbows from the flashing Red/Green/Blue... **

[04:56:05]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : i got a dlp projector too.. somethigns wrong thougn... it gets pissy and as a nice white bar going down the screen :(

[04:56:14]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: Weird.

[04:56:16]

xanderp:

my proj is only 720P, but it is still WAY better than SD...

[04:56:23]

rushfan:

xanderp: same

[04:56:31]

rushfan:

But my projector doesnt sync well with the VGA :|

[04:56:35]

Cod-er:

Tanthrix, : and warnety JUST ran out.. W%#%#% wouldnt call me back till it did!

[04:56:37]

rushfan:

And it doesnt have VGA :(

[04:56:41]

rushfan:

Oh, and X is completely stupid

[04:56:42]

xanderp:

i coudn't do the DLP thing either... i'm one of the people that can see the rainbows

[04:56:43]

Tanthrix:

I love my Aquos 42inch 1080P LCD. Best $1500 the GF and I have ever spent

[04:56:49]

Tanthrix:

Cod-er: That sucks, sorry to hear that.

[04:56:51]

rushfan:

It oh-so-helpfully "autodetects" my resolution for me

[04:57:03]

rushfan:

I think Im going to trash X and just go to a framebuffer

[04:57:14]

rushfan:

Anyone here watch mythtv with a framebuffer?

[04:57:16]

J-e-f-f-A:

xanderp: They have triple-chip DLP projectors — but they go for $9k + up...

[04:57:22]

Tanthrix:

1080P native is the way to go for X. Fixes a lot of problems, since 1920x1080p is actually supported with EDID

[04:57:42]

xanderp:

that's the reason i'm not at 1080p, I don't make that kind of money!

[04:57:45]

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[04:57:49]

rushfan:

xanderp: same heh

[04:57:55]

rushfan:

J-e-f-f-A: I take it triple chip is like, amazing quality?

[04:58:06]

rushfan:

Cause my DLP one is pretty nice but you can still tell a diff. between it and a plasma

[04:58:14]

Tanthrix:

The GF and I split the bill, so it wasn't so bad for us. I don't think I would have done it for $1500 out of pocket.

[04:58:25]

rushfan:

Tanthrix: so what happens when you break up?

[04:58:26]

J-e-f-f-A:

Triple-chip DLP doesn't have rainbows because all 3 colors have their own DLP chip, just like an LCD projector.

[04:58:27]

Cod-er:

stupid quetion, but if i were to run MYTHFRONTENF remotly of the server over X, tat would look liek krap right?

[04:58:30]

rushfan:

I odnt think LCDs split nicely in half

[04:58:31]

Tanthrix:

Nowadays though they're much cheaper. Costco had the 1080P 37 inch Westy for like $800

[04:58:35]

J-e-f-f-A:

so no rainbow effect.

[04:58:48]

rushfan:

J-e-f-f-A: mine doesnt have a rainbow effect :|

[04:58:56]

Tanthrix:

rushfan: I told her that we'd have to cut it down the middle ;)

[04:58:57]

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[04:59:01]

rushfan:

lol

[04:59:04]

xanderp:

Cod-er the video can't keep up over tcpip

[04:59:12]

rushfan:

Tanthrix: I would just pay her $750 and tell her to bug off

[04:59:12]

xanderp:

WAYYYY too slow

[04:59:23]

rushfan:

xanderp: what video are you talking about?

[04:59:26]

Tanthrix:

rushfan: Bought a $400 AC together too. I told her that we're as good as married now, since we have this investment together. ;)

[04:59:29]

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[04:59:31]

rushfan:

I watch HD over TCP/IP

[04:59:32]

J-e-f-f-A:

rushfan: It does flash red/green/blue either 60 or 120x a second — your eyes just can't see it. Mine can, even on the DLP DDR we have at my church (120hz)

[04:59:45]

xanderp:

he was talking about a remote x session

[04:59:48]

rushfan:

J-e-f-f-A: Oh, I know the rainbow you're talking about

[04:59:54]

rushfan:

xanderp: oh

[04:59:58]

rushfan:

IF I look at the projector at an angle

[05:00:01]

rushfan:

I can see it

[05:00:06]

rushfan:

Jut not when watching TV from straight on

[05:00:17]

rushfan:

DLP is still cool shit though

[05:00:23]

xanderp:

it gives me a headache is the worst part

[05:00:27]

rushfan:

xanderp: really?

[05:00:28]

Tanthrix:

Not sure I'd want a projector. Seems like to have to spend huge bucks to get one that doesn't look like washed out junk in anything but complete darkness.

[05:00:30]

J-e-f-f-A:

rushfan: Just wave your hand and forth in front of your face, and you'll see red/green/blue 'shadows' of your hand...

[05:00:30]

xanderp:

yup

[05:00:34]

rushfan:

My projector must work pretty well :|

[05:00:47]

rushfan:

J-e-f-f-A: yeah, I always wondered waht the hell that was

[05:00:55]

rushfan:

It woudl happene if I played my bass string in front fo the projector

[05:00:59]

xanderp:

mine's lcd, so no headache/rainbows

[05:01:04]

rushfan:

xanderp: I dont get it with mine. What kind do you have?

[05:01:11]

rushfan:

But LCD doesnt display colors nearly as accurately

[05:01:31]

rushfan:

When I bought my projector DLP was allegedly way better for a TV projector. Not sure if thats changed

[05:01:51]

xanderp:

i ran through some calibration dvd's a buddy had, it's pretty good for me. I have a total darkness theater room though

[05:02:03]

rushfan:

xanderp: My theater room is almost totally dark

[05:02:07]

rushfan:

Small storm windows

[05:02:12]

xanderp:

basement

[05:02:18]

J-e-f-f-A:

The most sharp projection tv I've ever seen was a Sony (I think) — it had a LCoS light engine — Liquid Crystal on Silicon... Similar to the way DLP works, but triple LCoS panels... Incredible contrast and sharpness...

[05:02:20]

rushfan:

but either way I like having a projector a-lot

[05:02:25]

xanderp:

no windows at all

[05:02:40]

cesman:

yes, no to windows ;)

[05:02:41]

rushfan:

IF I need wallspace, I just take down the screen and wa-la

[05:03:04]

rushfan:

xanderp: is yours mounted on the ceiling?

[05:03:17]

xanderp:

the wife and I rewatched LOTR (all 3) this week again down there... it's AMAZING. There's so much you don't see on tv in the details.

[05:03:20]

xanderp:

yes

[05:03:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

I have a really-old-school Sony CRT projector upstairs... it's only SD, but 15,000:1 contrast...

[05:03:41]

rushfan:

J-e-f-f-A: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/Landing/PowerLite1080.jsp --> that looks kinda like what you're describing

[05:03:56]

rushfan:

xanderp: Same, I have LOTR in 720P with a 60" screen

[05:03:57]

xanderp:

i'm projecting across a 20'x15' room to a 10' diagonal screen. perm setup, as it's a dedicated room.

[05:04:00]

rushfan:

its ridiculous :D

[05:04:09]

rushfan:

Oh I wish I had room for a 10' screen

[05:04:45]

xanderp:

i converted about 1/3 of my basement into a dedicated theater room... raised flooring, theater recliners and all...

[05:04:52]

rushfan:

Awesome!

[05:05:00]

Tanthrix:

rush: I have all three LOTR in 1080P, take that! ;)

[05:05:04]

rushfan:

I just have a reclining couch, and a home theater sound system with the projector and screen

[05:05:08]

xanderp:

I should do up some pics online to share with people.

[05:05:08]

rushfan:

Tanthrix: awesome

[05:05:14]

rushfan:

oh, and a microwave in the room for popcorn

[05:05:19]

J-e-f-f-A:

My Sony is throwing an 8' picture... Way too big for SD, but oh well... ;-) I'll be replacing it with a HD LCD sometime soon, perhaps even the one you mentoned rushfan... ;-)

[05:05:27]

xanderp:

I wired for 7.1, but only speakers for 5.1 at the moment.

[05:05:36]

rushfan:

xanderp: yeah the only disadvantage of a giant projector...

[05:05:43]

rushfan:

480i looks like complete garbage

[05:05:46]

rushfan:

even worse than it usually does

[05:05:51]

Tanthrix:

I am so freaking angry that they haven't released the trilogy out on hd-dvd/bluray yet. If there *ever* was a movie that would benefit from HD, it's LOTR

[05:05:59]

xanderp:

i think mine is a bravia or something... does that ring any bells?

[05:06:00]

rushfan:

Tanthrix: they havent?

[05:06:03]

rushfan:

I d/led it so, whatever :|

[05:06:13]

rushfan:

xanderp: what is a bravia? The projector?

[05:06:23]

rushfan:

Mine is an Eiki

[05:06:28]

xanderp:

i have them all in the extended box sets... they are like 4 hours long each that way

[05:06:30]

xanderp:

yes

[05:06:30]

Tanthrix:

rushfan: No, only on TV.

[05:06:59]

rushfan:

Tanthrix: ahh

[05:08:09]

rushfan:

wtf is 1035i

[05:08:14]

xanderp:

i think this is the one i have: http://www.projectorreviews.com/sony/vpl-aw15/

[05:08:15]

rushfan:

MY projector claims to support it

[05:08:48]

xanderp:

it's awsome, as it has physical lens shift... critical for theater setups like mine where you want to throw a long set distance.

[05:09:11]

rushfan:

Same

[05:09:16]

rushfan:

Granted yours is def. nicer than mine

[05:09:20]

rushfan:

mine is like 3 or 4 years old now

[05:09:24]

iamlindoro:

I have the Mitsu HC 5000

[05:09:34]

rushfan:

at the time it was expensive as hell. Its not worth much at all these days

[05:09:44]

rushfan:

hell, by the time the lightbulb burns out I might as well buy a new one

[05:09:51]

xanderp:

got it last year from best buy on one of those sales + 12m same as cash + etc... discounts...

[05:10:04]

rushfan:

Oh I dont do any financing or anything

[05:10:12]

rushfan:

I just fork over the cash or screw it all together

[05:10:18]

rushfan:

Hence why my stuff gets updated so slowly

[05:10:19]

rushfan:

heh

[05:10:27]

xanderp:

I bought the ext. warranty, so they will come to my house and install the next bulb for me free of charge! :)

[05:10:33]

rushfan:

xanderp: nice

[05:10:41]

rushfan:

xanderp: I bought mine on a company credit card

[05:10:47]

rushfan:

so the company can pay for the next damn bulb :P

[05:10:48]

xanderp:

nicer

[05:10:58]

rushfan:

xanderp: yeah see once or twice a year I use it at meetings

[05:11:03]

rushfan:

So its "justified"

[05:11:04]

rushfan:

hehehe

[05:12:30]

rushfan:

anyway, the sleeping pills are kicking in

[05:12:32]

rushfan:

good night

[05:14:31]

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[06:43:57]

cesman:

I guess Aunt Flo must be visiting...

[06:44:18]

MaxeyPad:

what would be some good specs for a mythtv frontend to play "blu ray" and large, high quality video feeds like 12gb MKV rips.

[06:44:43]

MaxeyPad:

also, do any of you have optical output working on a turtle beach pci card by chance and have an alsa config to share.

[06:46:58]

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[06:57:38]

CCFL_Man:

if a input card has drivers for linyx, not ivtv drivers, but vender drivers, should it work with mythtv?

[07:01:42]

cesman:

is it support via V4L/DVB?

[07:01:58]

cesman:

if so, it should work

[07:02:18]

cesman:

cards that use the GATOS drivers don't work (as an example)

[07:02:19]

MaxeyPad:

is it just me or is getting optical audio output working from ANY soundcard in myth is diffucult?

[07:02:28]

MaxeyPad:

is mythbuntu a livecd that I can check out?

[07:02:56]

cesman:

yes, but my personal preference is for KnoppMyth ;)

[07:03:15]

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[07:03:25]

larzen:

Has anyone ever experienced myth blinking with LIRC?

[07:03:33]

larzen:

every time i press a button the screen blinks

[07:03:40]

cesman:

not I

[07:03:58]

cesman:

I'd say you have hardware issues...

[07:05:29]

MaxeyPad:

cesman: with knopmyth should I be able to get my optical audio output working right out of the box?

[07:05:49]

** cesman created KnoppMyth **

[07:05:51]

cesman:

that is why

[07:06:13]

larzen:

anyone know how to disable X screen saver?

[07:08:31]

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[07:09:37]

MaxeyPad:

cesman: nice. i've had a lot of issues with getting optical audio output working

[07:09:45]

MaxeyPad:

should this "autoconfig" in knoppmyth

[07:11:32]

cesman:

larzen: can you not run xscreenaver-demo and disable it?

[07:12:15]

larzen:

i think its ok.. the problem is with my SIS video card.. its probably garbage

[07:12:26]

larzen:

I need to install a better videcard in there.. some nvidia

[07:12:39]

cesman:

MaxeyPad: http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php?page=DigitalAudioHowTo

[07:13:46]

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[07:14:11]

CCFL_Man:

the cards are dvb cards, but no tuning is done, they are dvb-asi cards

[07:15:09]

iamlindoro__:

Hahah, gotta love those context-ads on mythtvtalk.com... "Why build a MythTV DVR? Save the hassle with Beyond TV, easy to setup and easy to use."

[07:15:32]

CCFL_Man:

hah

[07:16:08]

CCFL_Man:

how are dvb cards supported in linux, with v4l?

[07:16:31]

cesman:

iamlindoro__: those are funny... verything I do a search on google, I see that and chuckle to myself

[07:17:35]

iamlindoro__:

Anyway, I've hacked together (with a few huge assists here and elsewhere) a couple of scripts to auto-fill all metadata in MythVideo... Doesn't do IMDB, but downloads all TV info from RageTV.com for people like me who have tons of TV Boxed sets in there, auto-calculates exact lengths for everything, and generates thumbnails for all "No Cover" movies... if you are interested, http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

[07:18:19]

CCFL_Man:

i'm going to get some digicipher II irds with dcb-asi output

[07:18:23]

iamlindoro__:

It's a messy hack job, but I finally have a MythVideo database with plot info for all my Galactica, Buffy, Dr. Who, etc, and accurate Runtimes for all

[07:18:51]

cesman:

iamlindoro__: wrong link

[07:19:18]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: Hmm, it's working here

[07:19:43]

iamlindoro__:

Well, more roundabout, it's in the general forum over there, should still be top post

[07:19:45]

cesman:

http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7077 maybe?

[07:20:00]

CCFL_Man:

and feed the transport streams into mythtv backends with dvb-asi input cards, but i need to figure out how it'll work with linyx

[07:20:08]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: Is same thing here... weird

[07:20:23]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: like, literally letter for letter

[07:20:34]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: What do you see it as?

[07:20:35]

cesman:

iamlindoro__: what you posted (what got posted) is missing 077

[07:20:56]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: Hahah, weird, I can totally see it (and my link works here)... stupid IRC client

[07:21:03]

cesman:

iamlindoro__: it goes to the rules and regs

[07:21:24]

iamlindoro__:

cesman: Odd. Ah well, yes, your link is (also?) correct

[07:23:02]

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[07:24:10]

CCFL_Man:

can i get guide data from a dvb card or no?

[07:25:08]

iamlindoro__:

CCFL_Man: EIT, yes

[07:25:16]

iamlindoro__:

CCFL_Man: Wiiiidely varying quality

[07:25:38]

iamlindoro__:

and sometimes as little as 24 hours... and sometimes not at all

[07:25:40]

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[07:25:50]

CCFL_Man:

i just need data on a few channels

[07:26:03]

iamlindoro__:

You'll really have to try to find out

[07:26:14]

iamlindoro__:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/EIT

[07:26:18]

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[07:26:42]

CCFL_Man:

ahh

[07:27:55]

CCFL_Man:

can you pay for data on certain channels?

[07:28:13]

CCFL_Man:

for certain channels i mean

[07:28:26]

Agrajag-:

how can i set the aspect ratio to always be "Fill"? mythfrontend is running on a xinerama display and i've set DisplaySize in xorg.conf

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[07:29:11]

iamlindoro__:

CCFL_Man: Not per channel, that I know of

[07:29:36]

iamlindoro__:

Agrajag-: In SVN, you can set it in TV playback settings... may be there in .20.2 also

[07:29:43]

CCFL_Man:

ahh, ok

[07:30:24]

iamlindoro__:

CCFL_Man: Far easier just to pay Schedules direct and set up as many lineups as you need, then just manually add XMLids onto your channels in the channel editor

[07:30:53]

CCFL_Man:

i'll have the discovery channel, science channel, history channel, deutsche welle, and a hd channels of those

[07:31:15]

Agrajag-:

iamlindoro__: i'm using .20.2 – i've set the aspect ratio to 4:3 in the settings – but when i watch tv it always defaults to 16:9 (everything is broadcast 16:9 but i've got a 4:3 tv)

[07:31:21]

iamlindoro__:

ie, find a lineup that contains your channels, figure out the five or whatever xmlids for the channels you have, and input them manually

[07:31:27]

Agrajag-:

so it's always letterboxed by default

[07:31:36]

CCFL_Man:

fr'iamlindoro__: oh, thats easy

[07:32:35]

Agrajag-:

iamlindoro__: eh. found another setting, nevermind

[07:34:03]

CCFL_Man:

fr'iamlindoro__: i'm going to subscribe to c band satellite and bring the direct feeds trandport streams right into mythtv

[07:34:20]

iamlindoro__:

Yes, I recall your saying so

[07:35:04]

CCFL_Man:

and guide data is done on tbe backend?

[07:35:33]

iamlindoro__:

it's downloaded by the backend, yes

[07:36:04]

CCFL_Man:

and the backend does not need X?

[07:37:22]

iamlindoro__:

Nope, not after running mythtv-setup anyway

[07:37:54]

iamlindoro__:

or you might manage to make it work by ssh -X'ing in from a machine with X and running it there

[07:38:16]

CCFL_Man:

ahh, good idea

[07:38:53]

CCFL_Man:

you are filled with so much good ideas

[07:39:36]

iamlindoro__:

heh, thanks...I just hang around and tinker a lot

[07:40:44]

CCFL_Man:

yeah

[07:44:27]

MaxeyPad:

hey iamlindoro__

[07:44:34]

iamlindoro__:

yup

[07:44:40]

MaxeyPad:

sorry to bother you bro, but what cards have you successfully gotten digital optical output to work with

[07:44:54]

MaxeyPad:

I have a turtle beach pci card that I read worked, but I'm having difficulty

[07:45:07]

iamlindoro__:

Uhhhh... hmm, Let me check what my onboard cards are

[07:45:09]

MaxeyPad:

my onboard optical out didn't work...its well documented

[07:45:09]

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[07:46:07]

iamlindoro__:

OK, two Intel HD Audios, A Turtle Beach USB box, and another TB card are what I know I have working between my house and my folk's house right now...

[07:46:12]

iamlindoro__:

I think the other TB is a Montego?

[07:47:58]

iamlindoro__:

MaxeyPad: Well documented as *not* working, or your onboard should work but doesn't?

[07:51:39]

iamlindoro__:

Ah well, it's bedtime, work in the AM. night all

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[08:09:59]

nemik:

so how can i bring up the onscreen keyboard? is there a command for that? for lircrc

[08:14:03]

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[08:29:52]

CCFL_Man:

i looked at the dvb-asi card drivers

[08:30:27]

CCFL_Man:

they are not linuxtv based

[08:33:22]

CCFL_Man:

device nodes are created

[08:37:02]

CCFL_Man:

mythtv uses specifically the v4l api to interact with the hardware?

[08:37:45]

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[08:38:47]

blkorpheus:

already using input chanel?

[08:38:50]

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[08:39:00]

blkorpheus:

pvr150 ubuntu gutsy

[08:39:08]

blkorpheus:

everything seems fine

[08:39:18]

blkorpheus:

just can't watch live tv

[08:41:44]

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[08:56:20]

blkorpheus:

I don't see anything about watching live tv

[08:57:12]

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[09:03:28]

blkorpheus:

incorrect group permission, even though I'm in the group?

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[09:15:45]

Tanthrix:

MaxeyPad: I can play 720p x264 MKV files on my Core 2 Duo E4400 / 1GB ram system almost completely reliably with mplayer. I've maybe gotten the "your system is too slow to play this" once on some particularly crazy files.

[09:16:31]

Tanthrix:

MaxeyPad: 1080p is right out. Maybe with multi-threaded decoding it would work, but definately not single threaded. And there's no hardware decoding support for linux for x264, you're stuck doing software.

[09:23:29]

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[10:24:25]

justinh:

heh. I stop dnsmasq & suddenly my internet is fast again

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[10:46:29]

skyphyr:

hi all – is it possible for mythtv to hook up to a card and receive virgin media cable tv? If so, can it act as a upnp media server and stream that through to a ps3?

[10:47:07]

directhex|bsp:

you can't receive virgin without using a vbox

[10:47:35]

justinh:

not necessarily a vbox

[10:47:54]

justinh:

but you certainly can't get virgin media cable tv without a set top box from them

[10:47:59]

directhex|bsp:

due to a) the terms & conditions of your contract b) the encryption on the signal c) the invalid data virgin send which means any standard app cannot correctly tune channels

[10:48:12]

directhex|bsp:

whether any of a, b, and c can be worked around, i can't possibly comment

[10:48:41]

directhex|bsp:

virgin have no interest in customers who don't want set-top boxes

[10:48:56]

justinh:

FWIW I honestly wouldn't bother anyway. there's sod all on pay tv worth having IMHO

[10:52:22]

justinh:

roflmao @ Full Circle magazine's step by step guide to installing mythbuntu. they give it two full pages! TWO pages!

[10:52:30]

skyphyr:

ahh thanks justinh – so it can't be decoded on pc with a cable tv tuner card

[10:52:43]

justinh:

oh sorry no it's THREE pages. ;)

[10:53:09]

justinh:

skyphyr: no it can't. and besides it's against the T&Cs of your contract with virgin to connect anything but their gear to the wire

[10:53:33]

skyphyr:

alrighty – thanks for the info :-)

[10:53:39]

directhex|bsp:

we,, i don't know of a workaround for their corrupt NIT tables

[10:53:44]

directhex|bsp:

well

[10:54:01]

justinh:

and that ^^^

[10:54:49]

directhex|bsp:

the rest is possible but ill-advised, but the NIT thing i've never researched a solution

[10:55:20]

skyphyr:

well they do manage to get their gear to ignore the corrupt ones ;-)

[10:56:31]

directhex|bsp:

well, yes, if you control the hardware platform you can stick your own hacks in

[10:56:38]

skyphyr:

though if you do have capture cards for any source mythtv can stream that as a upnp media server to a ps3? :-)

[10:58:08]

directhex|bsp:

yes and no. the ps3 has partial support for the codecs you might capture with myth

[10:58:42]

directhex|bsp:

you need a card which captures mpeg2-ts, as the ps3 can't deal with the nuv format used on framegrabber capture (i.e. you need a freeview tuner or an mpeg2 encoder)

[10:58:44]

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[10:59:03]

directhex|bsp:

and it will not use any audio except the first track, and that track has to not be ac3

[10:59:21]

directhex|bsp:

for the most part, my recordings run fine on the ps3, but there are a few which are inexplicably silent

[10:59:28]

justinh:

look under the right stone & you might find otherwise but we don't help people break contracts or do anything illegal here

[10:59:28]

justinh:

wouldn't wanna be you if you get found out though

[10:59:28]

justinh:

I know people who know people who got found out. gets rather expensive

[10:59:28]

justinh:

upnp is in a bit of a big ole mess right now AFAIK

[10:59:30]

justinh:

ugh it's not bad enough there's a nasty cold doing the rounds right now there's also a nasty variant of gastroenteritis. yay for phoning in

[11:00:49]

justinh:

that can be explained by freeview recordings having strange audio track markings though I'd bet

[11:01:03]

justinh:

am I done lagging now?!

[11:01:05]

skyphyr:

thanks for all the info guys

[11:01:06]

justinh:

jees

[11:02:03]

justinh:

and no, you can't legally use mythtv directly with encrypted Sky either. gotta love UK providers restrictions

[11:02:11]

DGnome:

After reading a few articles, my local cable/adsl/phone-operator seems pretty nice... Didn't think I'd ever say that.

[11:02:21]

skyphyr:

yeah – it's enough to convince me not to get it

[11:03:46]

directhex|bsp:

freesat!

[11:03:56]

justinh:

lack of anything worth watching on Sky is what put me off :)

[11:04:36]

justinh:

er.. I mean there's 'worth watching' then there's 'worth paying through the nose for'

[11:04:41]

directhex|bsp:

what about star trek reruns? :o

[11:05:01]

justinh:

what about them?

[11:05:12]

directhex|bsp:

sky1's finest!

[11:05:20]

justinh:

much cheaper to buy the box sets in the long run

[11:05:42]

DGnome:

I'd pay for HD-channels, but I can't get any regardless of transport method :/

[11:09:07]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, bcc hd on freesat!

[11:09:12]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, hope you have lots of mhz!

[11:10:24]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp: Im suspecting that putting up antennas by myself is prohibited by the house administration

[11:10:38]

directhex|bsp:

how handy

[11:10:40]

DGnome:

I live in an apartment

[11:10:54]

peque:

Is it possible to have 2external tuners to MythTV – with the same channellist – so if you're watching one – you can record with the other. If one is used then it's just take the other. I'm talking about 2 Inetbox for satelite TV

[11:11:22]

DGnome:

peque: you can have to tuners with the same channel list, yes

[11:11:25]

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[11:11:28]

DGnome:

two..

[11:12:12]

peque:

Great – then you just attached both inoput sources to the same channel list

[11:12:26]

DGnome:

just add another tuner in mythtv-setup and tell it to use the existing... yes

[11:12:38]

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[11:12:45]

roothorick:

finally got a big breakthrough on my box

[11:12:53]

roothorick:

figured out two things:

[11:12:57]

peque:

Thanks :-) Then I must out bying another one

[11:13:04]

roothorick:

a) firewire ports are useless when on an analog channel

[11:13:13]

roothorick:

b) everything but Music Choice channels are loced down (CCI copy once)

[11:13:30]

roothorick:

so basically, I bought this firewire cable for nothing

[11:13:47]

roothorick:

even OTA HD channels have CCI 0x2 set

[11:13:56]

directhex|bsp:

isn't there a legal requirement for a selection of channels to be in the clear?

[11:14:10]

roothorick:

yes actually

[11:14:13]

roothorick:

the irony is, of course

[11:14:14]

DGnome:

must carry channels should be open afaik

[11:14:23]

roothorick:

that's not the channels they have open

[11:15:05]

roothorick:

also, another dumb flaw of this boxo

[11:15:23]

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[11:15:28]

roothorick:

HDMI is completely inactive when watching an analog OTA channel. So if you want to watch regular cable, you have to hook up your HDTV over component

[11:15:58]

roothorick:

oop, found a video channel that's CCI 0x0

[11:16:06]

roothorick:

in spanish ironically

[11:16:08]

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[11:16:13]

roothorick:

someone at the TWC CO is laughing at me

[11:17:23]

DGnome:

roothorick: what box are you talking about?

[11:17:38]

roothorick:

SciAl Explorer 4250HDC

[11:17:53]

DGnome:

oh

[11:18:04]

roothorick:

apparently it has no digital encoder, so if the signal isn't digital in the first place, you can forget about any and all digital outputs

[11:18:10]

roothorick:

except audio, for some stupid reason

[11:18:26]

DGnome:

analog is dead

[11:18:29]

roothorick:

if digital audio out didn't work I'd give TW a piece of my mind. My speakers need that.

[11:18:49]

roothorick:

DGnome: all the channels I care about, TWC broadcasts via analog

[11:19:01]

roothorick:

Discovery, TNT, TBS, et al

[11:19:03]

DGnome:

roothorick: UK?

[11:19:07]

roothorick:

no

[11:19:08]

roothorick:

US

[11:19:10]

roothorick:

wisconsin

[11:19:17]

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[11:19:34]

DGnome:

oh x2

[11:19:53]

roothorick:

... the hell is that

[11:20:00]

roothorick:

random channels in the 5xx range are open

[11:20:12]

roothorick:

including most (but not all) of music choicec

[11:22:37]

roothorick:

...someone has got to be having fun at my expense

[11:22:56]

roothorick:

channel 580 is free during the show and restricted during commercials

[11:22:58]

roothorick:

figure that out

[11:23:16]

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[11:23:36]

roothorick:

at least the STB will filter commercials for me... I wouldn't be able to watch them if I wanted to

[11:23:59]

roothorick:

does anyone have a 3250HD?

[11:24:15]

rushfan:

roothorick: whos your cable company?

[11:24:23]

roothorick:

time warner

[11:24:39]

roothorick:

all I want to know is if firewire works on analog channels on the 3250

[11:25:49]

DGnome:

you have weird hardware :)

[11:26:10]

roothorick:

you think?

[11:26:20]

roothorick:

it's a cable box... with a cablecard slot

[11:27:28]

roothorick:

I suppose the logic is they'll be able to use the same boxes for an extended period of time, but come on, really, compatibility isn't what's hurting the shelf life of STBs

[11:28:26]

DGnome:

We in .fi are in such a position that we no longer har OTA analog TV. DVB-T being the standard and MPEG2 video with mp2 audio in the transport streams. Scart/hdmi + opto/coax/rca connectors.

[11:29:07]

roothorick:

well now

[11:29:10]

roothorick:

thihs is the US after all

[11:29:20]

roothorick:

we're always behind the times on everything

[11:29:24]

DGnome:

that's why i told you you had weird HW :)

[11:30:11]

roothorick:

at least I managed to pull SOMETHING out of this box

[11:30:26]

roothorick:

but now because mplayer is giving me errors about shared memory I can't even play it

[11:30:51]

DGnome:

so the firewire is for tranporting audio and video? live? or just downloading recordings?

[11:32:02]

roothorick:

it was originally intended for interfacing with older digital technologies like DVHS

[11:32:38]

roothorick:

but with a PC and special software you can pull the video (and maybe audio) right out of the box

[11:33:07]

directhex|bsp:

as long as it's digital

[11:33:13]

roothorick:

in theory... in practice it's hit and miss. Depending on the features enabled in the box and on the broadcast, you never know when it's going to work and on what channels

[11:33:13]

directhex|bsp:

you won't get analog down firewire

[11:33:38]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: so no STBs can encode on the fly?

[11:34:46]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, i don't know enough about ye olde analogue

[11:35:05]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: go ahead, laugh at our pathetic nation. Pssh.

[11:35:35]

roothorick:

the vast majority of the populace here still has a number of analog-only TVs still in use

[11:35:52]

roothorick:

ourselves included

[11:36:11]

roothorick:

in fact, none of our TVs speak digitala

[11:36:26]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, that's the case in most places. hence http://www.freeview.co.uk/products/stb

[11:37:29]

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[11:37:30]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: wouldn't work with my sets. SCART doesn't exist on this side of the ocean.

[11:37:41]

roothorick:

in any case, i know digital set-top tuners exist

[11:38:50]

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[11:39:05]

roothorick:

here's a Q I have to pose though

[11:39:29]

roothorick:

with the impending "analog blackout" is there any point to getting an analog TV capture card now?

[11:39:37]

roothorick:

if not, what should I be getting?

[11:39:47]

roothorick:

because the firewire turned out to be one big dud

[11:41:34]

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[11:42:35]

roothorick:

...that's interesting.

[11:43:23]

roothorick:

ripping from music choice gives an audio only signal

[11:43:25]

DGnome:

[11:44:44]

DGnome:

roothorick: can you receive ATSC signals there?

[11:44:59]

DGnome:

roothorick: ATSC is your digital, right?

[11:45:35]

roothorick:

DGnome: no farking clue

[11:45:59]

DGnome:

okay

[11:46:03]

directhex|bsp:

ATSC replaces the DVB-T used by the rest of the world

[11:46:19]

directhex|bsp:

QAM replaces the DVB-S used by the rest of the world

[11:46:35]

directhex|bsp:

DVB-S is replaced by, um, hey, what's with americans using the same standard as everyone else?

[11:46:45]

DGnome:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATSC_Standards

[11:47:05]

justinh:

wish they hadn't called QAM that. QAM is just a modulation scheme

[11:47:12]

DGnome:

yup

[11:47:21]

justinh:

our DVB-T uses QAM

[11:47:52]

roothorick:

I'm assuming what comes in as analog over here will come in as ATSC 480i after the analog blackout

[11:48:01]

DGnome:

our DVB-T uses QAM also

[11:48:02]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, indeed

[11:48:19]

justinh:

damn Americans, hijacking terms

[11:48:26]

roothorick:

I have a call to make to TW before choosing a card

[11:48:37]

directhex|bsp:

okay, i lie, it seems it's not just yankland using ATSC

[11:48:59]

justinh:

oops I seem to have triggerred an Eschelon thingy

[11:49:00]

directhex|bsp:

global powerhouses like guam and honduras do!

[11:49:08]

justinh:

and Japan

[11:49:36]

roothorick:

heh

[11:49:50]

roothorick:

recording from music choice produces a corrupt signal with sound

[11:49:51]

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[11:49:51]

justinh:

damnit I'm going to have to phone Virgin Media :(

[11:50:13]

roothorick:

recordign from either of the two video channels that are in the clear produces a slightly distorted signal without sound

[11:50:13]

justinh:

don't mind broadband being off for a few hours but intermittent service like this stinks

[11:50:15]

directhex|bsp:

japan uses ISDB-T

[11:50:19]

directhex|bsp:

along with brazil, and that's it

[11:50:45]

directhex|bsp:

skorea uses atsc though. ooh, samsungland. that's a major player!

[11:51:06]

justinh:

gonna have to sit through all the "have you tried turning it off & then back on again ?" shite

[11:51:12]

justinh:

"did you try rebooting?"

[11:51:44]

justinh:

25p per minute?!?!?!?!?!?!? FO!!!!!!!!!

[11:52:53]

DGnome:

yikes

[11:53:39]

justinh:

the cable modem in the STB is taking ages to initialise. must be something wrong with the return path

[11:53:42]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, 0151 4777594

[11:53:53]

Saviq:

hello all

[11:53:54]

directhex|bsp:

http://www.saynoto0870.com/companysearch.php

[11:53:59]

DGnome:

Hello IT – Have you tried turning it off and on again?

[11:54:09]

Saviq:

can any1 help with mythbackend crashing randomly: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/19111/ ?

[11:54:37]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: not an 0870 number :(

[11:54:58]

directhex|bsp:

0906 2121111 ?

[11:55:21]

** justinh waits for the site to load **

[11:55:55]

roothorick:

well, I'm satisfied

[11:56:03]

roothorick:

I got a very usable signal out of the box on a digital channel

[11:56:13]

roothorick:

full video and audio

[11:57:21]

quicksilver:

xmltv working again

[11:57:22]

quicksilver:

\o/

[11:58:17]

roothorick:

the hell...

[11:58:22]

roothorick:

it's like the box is opening before my eyes

[11:58:31]

roothorick:

channels t hat were restricted just an hour earlier are open now

[11:59:29]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, was it rebooted or switched off an hour ago?

[11:59:37]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: no

[11:59:48]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, weird

[11:59:50]

roothorick:

thing of note though

[11:59:57]

roothorick:

the guide isn't working

[12:00:03]

roothorick:

every channel is "no data available"

[12:00:14]

directhex|bsp:

sod the guide, that's myth's job!

[12:00:58]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: they've disabled that number. the bastards

[12:01:28]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, how nice of them

[12:01:37]

justinh:

ok then. calling the 0906 number, if this gets me through to india I'm hanging up

[12:01:40]

roothorick:

ffs

[12:01:44]

roothorick:

why is PBSHD restricted

[12:01:56]

roothorick:

non-profit TV station marked CCI copy once

[12:02:03]

roothorick:

who at the CO is on crack

[12:02:28]

justinh:

hahah they're not picking up

[12:03:02]

roothorick:

what the hell

[12:03:05]

justinh:

the fact IRC is working so much better than web stuff seems to say the fault lies with their transparent caching

[12:03:19]

roothorick:

I think this cable box is cracked

[12:04:15]

roothorick:

if I go 580–706 (hispanic non-restricted channel -> OTA HD), 706 is not restricted

[12:04:29]

roothorick:

if I go 200–706 (HBO restricted -> OTA HD), 706 IS restricted

[12:05:30]

directhex|bsp:

that sounds like a pretty stupid flaw

[12:05:59]

roothorick:

must be a a firmware bug

[12:06:11]

directhex|bsp:

hardware manus never admit to firmware bugs

[12:06:16]

roothorick:

not sure who to call about it, SciAl or TWC

[12:06:33]

roothorick:

actually... you'd be surprised, it depends on the vendor

[12:07:16]

Saviq:

can anyone please take a look at my mythbackend crashing randomly? here's the trace: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/19111/

[12:08:10]

directhex|bsp:

okay, vendors that exist don't admit it, vendors in lollipop land, staffed entirely by unicorns, can man up & admit their flaws

[12:08:26]

roothorick:

actually...

[12:09:44]

roothorick:

Nokia is quite proud of their Symbian, and put out bugfixes that certainly qualify as a confession

[12:10:22]

roothorick:

after my experience with my Motorola cellphone though, I understand where that "manufacturers don't care" attitude comes from all too well

[12:12:23]

roothorick:

so anyway, I have to ask TW about their plans for the future... whatever card I buy, it better be compatible with everything TW has planned for the next 10 years

[12:12:41]

roothorick:

at least as far as the standard package channels go

[12:16:39]

roothorick:

haaa... currently recording my local NBC channel in HD, directly to my laptop

[12:16:55]

roothorick:

if only this worked for analog channels

[12:17:39]

roothorick:

holy crap, 1080p

[12:19:49]

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[12:21:01]

directhex|bsp:

mpeg2 though

[12:21:55]

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[12:22:15]

roothorick:

so I get OTA HD and that's about it

[12:25:36]

clever:

roothorick: my fastest laptop has built in firewire which could make it a backend

[12:26:00]

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[12:26:07]

clever:

but it would be a bit of a waste of cpu power and i have no box to put the firewire cord in

[12:26:37]

justinh_:

"hello this is the stupid crap broadbandings helpings servicings in othercountry landings. vot seems to be the trouble wit your broadbandings sir is your firewallings settings. can you please try lebooting your computings in safe moding?" ARGHHH

[12:27:14]

justinh_:

to prevent me yelling obsceneties down the phone I hung up

[12:27:20]

directhex|bsp:

justinh_, that call was well worth the price of a pint!

[12:27:58]

justinh_:

if it's no better by 4pm today I'm going to ring up customer services & cancel

[12:28:18]

justinh_:

I'm not fecking putting up with being talked down to by a droid reading from a script

[12:28:20]

directhex|bsp:

what's the WAF on cancellation?

[12:28:54]

justinh_:

don't care

[12:29:26]

roothorick:

clever: firewire capture uses almost zero CPU, it's purely taking a signal in via firewire and dumping it directly to disk without any processing

[12:29:29]

justinh_:

droid said there's no problem & couldn't be convinced otherwise so I don't know what choices I have left

[12:29:47]

clever:

roothorick: yep which is why id be wasting the cpu power

[12:29:56]

xand:

snowing :(

[12:30:12]

clever:

why record with a 0% method when the thing has a pair of 1.8ghz's

[12:30:14]

justinh_:

1. domain name resolution is slow. very slow, even for them. 2. when the domain name resolves, the connection is more often than not flaky

[12:30:39]

roothorick:

clever: just pick up an old 1394 PCI card and slip it in your HTPC. Then ask for a new box from your cableco

[12:30:47]

justinh_:

might aswell have ducking TalkTalk!!!!!

[12:30:55]

clever:

roothorick: yep i also have a pci firewire card

[12:31:03]

clever:

roothorick: and a 400mhz box it could go in:P

[12:31:11]

clever:

but i still lack the cable box

[12:31:22]

clever:

which cost extra

[12:31:26]

roothorick:

clever: a call to your cableco can fix that

[12:31:28]

clever:

DAMNIT

[12:31:38]

clever:

the wireless is killing myth

[12:31:39]

roothorick:

TWC even personally delivered mine

[12:31:47]

clever:

makes the frontend near useless

[12:31:59]

roothorick:

they didn't have to, but they did

[12:32:16]

justinh_:

hell even pings are getting lost ffs

[12:32:17]

clever:

we have a 'digital' tuner

[12:32:26]

clever:

but 90% of the channels we are paying for are analog

[12:32:34]

justinh_:

even pings to my own external IP

[12:32:49]

clever:

justinh_: those should bounce right off the router

[12:33:02]

clever:

try pinging the router directly on the lan

[12:33:16]

roothorick:

router? It should bounce off the computer's intnernal routing tables

[12:33:40]

clever:

the public ip to the web isnt on one of the internal interfaces normaly

[12:33:45]

clever:

when you have a router

[12:33:50]

roothorick:

true

[12:34:02]

clever:

my 156.34.x.y ip is on ppp0 at the newrouter host

[12:34:12]

clever:

which im using iptables to forward everything out

[12:34:37]

clever:

my current problem which is half myth based and half in the kernel

[12:34:55]

clever:

the wireless driver has become unstable after my 2nd last upgrade

[12:35:06]

clever:

drops out randomly for about 10–20 seconds

[12:35:21]

clever:

which causes the frontend to giveup on the file and exit playback

[12:35:38]

justinh_:

50% packet loss that time

[12:35:42]

clever:

then i have to restart it and seek for 5 hours to get back to where i was

[12:35:48]

justinh_:

wonder if the problem is the router

[12:35:51]

DGnome:

clever: mythfrontend over wireless kindof sucks

[12:36:05]

clever:

DGnome: when the driver isnt crashed it works great

[12:36:20]

roothorick:

DGnome: sometimes you don't have a choice

[12:36:51]

clever:

also sometimes

[12:36:54]

DGnome:

roothorick: I know, but I'd do whatever it takes to not have to use wireless :)

[12:37:02]

clever:

the frontend locks up from the wifi cut out

[12:37:10]

clever:

i hit save position just in case

[12:37:16]

DGnome:

especially to watch HighDef stuff

[12:37:16]

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[12:37:21]

clever:

it resumes playback with 0 network usage

[12:37:27]

clever:

then crashes a few seconds later

[12:37:41]

clever:

like it had several seconds of buffer yet ignored it because of a delay in the lan

[12:38:25]

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[12:38:38]

roothorick:

DGnome: would you risk destroying a critical part of your house's heating system and killing yourself?

[12:38:48]

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[12:38:50]

roothorick:

because that was the alternative for me

[12:39:03]

clever:

my computers do put out a fair ammount of heat:P

[12:39:11]

grdnerd:

I recently setup a Kworld-ATSC-115 card, however the reception isn't as good as the TV by itself. I think its the card, but was wondering if there were some things I could try?

[12:39:17]

DGnome:

roothorick: powertools were built to be used, mkay? :)

[12:39:23]

roothorick:

I ultimately went with putting frontend+backend+database on the same machine and having it talk tothe world via wireless

[12:39:36]

roothorick:

DGnome: have you heard of ceiling radiant heat?

[12:40:05]

roothorick:

DGnome: when your house has it, your ceilings are just one big high-voltage area

[12:40:19]

clever:

roothorick: for a short while i had my mysql server ON the wireless

[12:40:25]

roothorick:

running wires between floors involves dedicated conduits, which our house doesn't have

[12:40:27]

clever:

with every other myth box on wired

[12:40:37]

clever:

with this bug in my wifi it was horid:P

[12:40:44]

roothorick:

heh

[12:40:47]

DGnome:

roothorick: define high-voltage please :)

[12:41:07]

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[12:41:12]

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[12:41:13]

clever:

ive run a few cables between the floors here

[12:41:20]

justinh:

another router reset

[12:41:23]

roothorick:

DGnome: 120VAC or 240VAC dependingn on your region, at really farking high amperages

[12:41:33]

clever:

just bore a hole in the floor into the space below above the celing tiles

[12:41:35]

justinh:

whee fastness is resumed

[12:41:38]

clever:

and shove a ethernet thru

[12:41:53]

roothorick:

clever: you're lucky you can do that

[12:41:59]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: as a general rule, cards dont' acheive quite as good reception as standalone TVs

[12:42:02]

DGnome:

roothorick: In that case I'd drill holes in outer walls and pass floors that way :)

[12:42:16]

clever:

roothorick: i currently have 2 holes thru the floor

[12:42:21]

roothorick:

DGnome: and piss off the condo association?

[12:42:21]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: that could be down to RF interference and crowded circuitry or it could just be shit quality :)

[12:42:30]

justinh:

VirginMedia get to stay another day. lucky them, cos I hate the idea of ADSL

[12:42:32]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: decent quality antenna is probably the best answer

[12:42:34]

DGnome:

roothorick: unless you live in a condo.. yeah, usually not a good idea

[12:42:36]

clever:

roothorick: one in a closet feeds 2 ethernet lines

[12:42:53]

clever:

roothorick: the other behind the fridge feeds 3 ethernet and a composite video+aud

[12:42:58]

justinh:

it's snowing :(

[12:43:22]

quicksilver:

justinh: hmm. No snow in chelmsford yet.

[12:43:22]

roothorick:

clever: why are you running analog A/V through walls?

[12:43:31]

clever:

for a short while

[12:43:39]

clever:

i was extending the tvout from one of my frontends

[12:43:48]

clever:

along with a usb extension for a keyboard to control it

[12:43:54]

grdnerd:

quicksilver: thats what I was afraid of, since some channels come in 'perfect'. Both the TV and my card are running off a splitter coming from the roof antena

[12:44:55]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: if the roof antenna is fine then a better quality splitter or better cables might help

[12:45:02]

roothorick:

clever: that's nuts. Just put the frontend in the same room.

[12:45:10]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: try running the card breifly without the splitter

[12:45:16]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: see if that's any better

[12:45:16]

clever:

roothorick: i have 3 on the basement floor now:P

[12:45:22]

grdnerd:

quicksilver: yeah I will give that a try

[12:45:36]

quicksilver:

if it is, then a powered splitter might help

[12:45:39]

roothorick:

I feel like a rookie with my single all-in-one machinen

[12:45:45]

quicksilver:

the pros often look down on powered splitters

[12:45:50]

roothorick:

btw

[12:45:55]

quicksilver:

but mine definitely improves matters slightly

[12:45:59]

justinh:

gawd with snow like this the local motorways will be standing still

[12:46:00]

roothorick:

can you watch video over mythweb/

[12:46:21]

justinh:

"ARGHHH! A SNOWFLAKE!!!!!! <swerve>"

[12:46:28]

roothorick:

yeech, -4F

[12:46:38]

clever:

justinh: the snow here was worse:P

[12:46:40]

roothorick:

it's cold in my livingnroom, of all places

[12:46:49]

justinh:

quicksilver: pros looking down on powered aerial splitters?

[12:46:56]

clever:

blowing walls of snow blocking out all vision!

[12:46:57]

quicksilver:

justinh: yes. Don't they?

[12:47:03]

justinh:

they use them. they might look down on the shitty supermarket sold ones

[12:47:12]

quicksilver:

ah

[12:47:13]

quicksilver:

maybe that's it

[12:47:24]

quicksilver:

easily to misinterpret snobbery

[12:47:37]

justinh:

with the boost boost boost boost BOOST! prevalence :P

[12:47:37]

quicksilver:

justinh: where is local to you?

[12:47:43]

justinh:

manchestuh

[12:47:46]

** quicksilver nods **

[12:47:58]

justinh:

mo signal, mo signal!

[12:48:15]

justinh:

cos mo signal != better (necessarily) ;)

[12:48:21]

quicksilver:

I have a shitty dixons sold one

[12:48:27]

quicksilver:

but, it's better than nothing

[12:48:31]

quicksilver:

called one4all or something

[12:48:45]

justinh:

what people tend to do is stack them, which can be bad

[12:48:56]

quicksilver:

ah, I'm not going that

[12:49:00]

justinh:

buy one with up to 2x the amount of outputs you need

[12:49:02]

quicksilver:

mine is 1 -> 4, which is enough for me at the moment

[12:49:09]

quicksilver:

1 x TV, 3 x cards

[12:49:21]

justinh:

if it has a lot of outputs you don't use you sometimes have to terminate the unused outputs

[12:50:08]

quicksilver:

just like the bad old days of SCSI and 10-base-2

[12:50:52]

justinh:

quicksilver: straight out of my aerial, I have a passive 2 way splitter going a) into the TV and b) onto the coax which goes upstairs to my backend. the upstairs coax goes into a 4 output amp

[12:51:19]

justinh:

signal is clean as.. I get a snr in the high FFxx region

[12:51:33]

justinh:

BER generally 0, UNC is dead zero

[12:51:37]

** quicksilver nods **

[12:51:44]

quicksilver:

well I need a decent antenna pointed the right way

[12:51:48]

quicksilver:

or, I need to replace my cabling

[12:51:52]

quicksilver:

I don't yet know which :)

[12:52:00]

quicksilver:

I'm not going up on that roof. I want a professional.

[12:52:04]

quicksilver:

Haven't got around to finding one.

[12:52:13]

justinh:

any UNCs & Deirdre's hair goes all blocky :P

[12:52:15]

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[12:52:28]

quicksilver:

but there is no digital TV in chelmsford

[12:52:35]

justinh:

quicksilver: won't harm to have both done. won't cost you much more

[12:52:38]

quicksilver:

as far as I know I"m picking up crystal palace.

[12:52:59]

justinh:

uhoh. now it's _snowing_

[12:53:13]

justinh:

who needs mythweather? :P

[12:53:24]

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[12:53:50]

justinh:

if my router has any more of these brain farts I might just have to replace it with something nice

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[12:54:20]

justinh:

thing is, the 1st sniff of anything related to internet problems I never suspect the router. never

[12:54:50]

justinh:

I don't want to go down the iptables road & use the backend as a router. no way

[12:55:02]

directhex|bsp:

openwrt!

[12:55:42]

** xand rubs his soekris box **

[12:58:13]

justinh:

arghhh here comes the lag again

[12:59:35]

justinh:

wonder what's happening on the WAN side of the router. maybe getting DOS'd by some muppet for all I know

[13:03:05]

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[13:04:26]

justinh:

looks like there's not much point trying to find a router on sale that supports openwrt. so many unsupported variants – more a case of buying one, then if it's the right model, play

[13:06:49]

otwin:

justinh: i like my asus wl-500 premium with dd-wrt – very well supported

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[13:08:43]

DGnome:

linksys wrt54gl is worth the money, and you can hack it

[13:09:46]

otwin:

justinh: and fwbuilder has a template for wrt based routers, so you can have the FW do exactly what you want

[13:13:18]

justinh:

only £42 at amazon too

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[13:21:50]

anykey_:

xand: you using m0n0?

[13:22:46]

xand:

no, debian

[13:23:09]

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[13:25:51]

otwin:

i gave my wrt54gl to my parents and replaced it with the asus as it has more memory and usb ports

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[13:40:28]

wek_:

hallo bei meinem MythTV will ich einstellen dass Programm-1= ARD, Programm-2=ZDF ist. Bisher kann ich nur bei der SenderAuswahl nur eine Liste durchklicken. W§ie kann ich also einstellen, dass Programm-4 mir z.B. Sat1 bringt. Danke im Voraus

[13:41:45]

anykey_:

wek_: #mythtv-de

[13:42:59]

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[13:43:38]

clever:

damnit

[13:43:42]

clever:

more seektable damage

[13:43:48]

clever:

seek forward goes backwards!

[13:44:18]

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[13:48:43]

Puh:

hello

[13:48:51]

Puh:

is anyone here using mythtv-multirec?

[13:49:14]

Puh:

are there any known problems with multirec and epg?

[13:49:34]

GreyFoxx:

I use multirec but not with EIT data

[13:49:47]

Puh:

ok, i'm only getting eit data for one multiplex

[13:49:52]

Puh:

others appear empty

[13:50:19]

GreyFoxx:

I haven't heard any reports of troubles. But you might be best off asking on the -users list as that will get the most people

[13:50:29]

Puh:

i'll be happy to investigate further but if it's a known problem i won't bother

[13:50:32]

Puh:

ok

[13:50:53]

GreyFoxx:

multirec is likely gonna be merged with trunk any day now

[13:51:01]

GreyFoxx:

so if there is a problem more people will be affected soon enough :)

[13:51:11]

Floppe:

jej, waited a long time for that

[13:51:18]

directhex|bsp:

yay! multirec merge!

[13:51:31]

directhex|bsp:

how about threaded decoding enabled by default?

[13:52:26]

Puh:

oh, great news

[13:52:49]

Puh:

still i had to buy a commercial stb to keep my wife happy

[13:53:17]

Puh:

on the plus side i now have more rope for tweaking and breaking myth every now and then :)

[13:53:40]

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[13:54:57]

DustyBin:

I just been to John Lewis and looked at TVs in UK. The best looking cases I thought were the Panasonic & Toshiba and maybe Philips. The best looking picture looked like the Samsung but id need to go back and double check.

[13:55:40]

DustyBin:

Although i did see a few Panasonics with really nice picture

[13:56:10]

DustyBin:

the 26" TVs are a nice size for the bedroom

[13:56:12]

Puh:

sometimes the multirec recordings fail with "multiplex not available" or similar nagging in the backend log file

[13:56:44]

janneg:

Puh: I have EIT for all channels

[13:56:50]

Puh:

it seems that the tuning fails for some reason and multirec ends up in a state where it thinks it is recording when it actually isn't doing anything

[13:57:02]

i3ooi3oo:

what can be done about image quality in live and recorded tv ?

[13:57:14]

Puh:

janneg, where are you at? ttv?

[13:57:39]

janneg:

Berlin, Germany. DVB-C and DVB-T

[13:58:05]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, what's your requirement for a teevee?

[13:58:16]

Puh:

ok

[13:58:28]

Puh:

might be a problem with our local cable configuration

[13:58:55]

Puh:

i phoned the cable service today to check if there's been any problems with the data lately and they weren't aware of any

[13:59:00]

DustyBin:

directhex|bsp: 26–32" LCD, with DVI & VGA inputs, 1080p

[13:59:03]

Puh:

but i'll look into that tonight

[13:59:22]

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[13:59:26]

janneg:

GreyFoxx: the upnp crashes in trunk are fixed, or? I'll do a merge if they are

[13:59:28]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, 1080p begins at 37"

[13:59:31]

DustyBin:

directhex|bsp: actually for a TV that size i think 720p would be ok

[13:59:33]

DustyBin:

yeah sorry

[14:00:01]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, smaller than 37", you don't get 720p, you get all input scaled to 768p

[14:00:13]

DustyBin:

oh ok

[14:00:42]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, i have a 26" samsung, it's a couple of years old now

[14:00:42]

DustyBin:

maybe i need to think outside the box :P

[14:01:01]

DustyBin:

i noticed the samsungs looked like they had the nicer image

[14:01:09]

DustyBin:

but wasnt keen on the glossy casing

[14:01:13]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, pick a budget! is this a bedroom set or living room?

[14:01:18]

DustyBin:

bedroom

[14:01:23]

DustyBin:

0-£1000

[14:01:26]

directhex|bsp:

hm, 26" is probably the right size then

[14:01:32]

DustyBin:

yep

[14:01:46]

directhex|bsp:

what's in the living room?

[14:01:56]

DustyBin:

my parents!

[14:01:57]

xand:

not all samsungs have glossy screens

[14:02:06]

xand:

samsungs rock

[14:02:12]

DustyBin:

they have a crappy sony

[14:02:28]

DustyBin:

xand: it wasnt the actual screen, it was the black casing

[14:02:31]

xand:

my parents got a samsung LCD TV at xmas; I have a samsung monitor and we have quite a few of their big screens here

[14:02:38]

xand:

ah well, same applies tehre ;)

[14:02:51]

directhex|bsp:

actually, i was delighted with the bedroom tv my mother got recently

[14:03:02]

DustyBin:

samsung again?

[14:03:15]

directhex|bsp:

not technically a tv, it's a 22" 1680x1050 monitor w/ built in freeview tuner, but godDAMN is it sexy

[14:03:19]

directhex|bsp:

yeah, a samsung

[14:03:27]

DustyBin:

the blacks looked really black on the samsungs i looked at, and the picture was really bright

[14:04:37]

DustyBin:

i did see a really sexy 26" panasonic

[14:04:44]

DustyBin:

lovely bright image

[14:04:52]

DustyBin:

lovely looking enclosure too

[14:05:21]

directhex|bsp:

concern yourself with other details. 1:1 pixel mapping ability? digital audio out?

[14:05:24]

DustyBin:

next time i go to John Lewis im going to have a word with the staff and see what they see, then come back and research the net

[14:05:32]

DustyBin:

*say

[14:05:51]

DustyBin:

directhex|bsp: the first important thing for me is for it to look nice

[14:06:04]

DustyBin:

i dont want a ugly box in my room even if it does what its supposed to do

[14:07:16]

DustyBin:

i couldnt think of anything more annoying than looking at reflections in those glossy samsung panels

[14:07:26]

directhex|bsp:

get a 24" imac! 24" 1080p set with built in HD-capable FE!

[14:07:38]

DustyBin:

i wish the world would destroy this horrible glossy look

[14:07:46]

DustyBin:

aye!

[14:07:50]

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[14:08:03]

directhex|bsp:

the old model with a geforce 7000 in it, not the new ones with a radeon

[14:08:13]

DustyBin:

ok..

[14:08:23]

** DustyBin recalls those screens as being glossy.. **

[14:09:22]

directhex|bsp:

glossy is the new matt!

[14:10:11]

DustyBin:

o_0

[14:11:43]

justinh:

my inlaws' Sony thing looks great til the picture moves

[14:12:13]

justinh:

its deinterlacing is very good but very fast moving things just look.. ghosty

[14:12:18]

grdnerd:

quicksilver: took the splitter out of the equation, and getting great reception

[14:13:52]

DustyBin:

justinh: John Lewis but good old freeview on all the Tvs on show what doesnt do the TVs any favours..

[14:14:34]

directhex|bsp:

get them to hook up a ps3

[14:14:47]

i3ooi3oo:

my live tv & recorded tv is interlaced bad when the image moves, still images are fine thou

[14:14:50]

directhex|bsp:

and stick in something that really shows off extra pixels

[14:15:07]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: not much point only showing how good the HD is considering how little content is HD

[14:15:17]

directhex|bsp:

my top pick for "zomghdlol" is A Scanner Darkly

[14:15:37]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, not much point in only showing freeview if it's got 6 ports for other sources on the back

[14:16:08]

justinh:

has to be a good all-rounder in my book

[14:16:19]

justinh:

i3ooi3oo: so enable deinterlacing

[14:16:37]

i3ooi3oo:

ok,

[14:17:13]

grdnerd:

quicksilver: thanks for the tip, wouldn't have occured to me since the TV and radio didn't have problems with the splitter

[14:17:56]

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[14:21:08]

MaxeyPad:

what would be some good specs for a mythtv frontend to play "blu ray" and large, high quality video feeds like 12gb MKV rips.

[14:21:17]

MaxeyPad:

I already have a backend box thats definitely beefy enough

[14:21:28]

flindet_ is now known as flinddet

[14:21:43]

justinh:

wtf is it with mkv these days?!

[14:22:25]

justinh:

anyway regardless, mythfrontend won't play mkv files properly. boo hoo. etc

[14:23:06]

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[14:24:49]

GreyFoxx:

that should be something we can greatly improve

[14:25:09]

GreyFoxx:

ffplay (from a recent SVN) will play mkv's happily that myth chokes on

[14:25:22]

GreyFoxx:

so we can likely get myth to work better with mkv's with some effort

[14:25:57]

justinh:

hahahaha: http://plusdeck.co.kr/eng/

[14:27:05]

i3ooi3oo:

isn't that a step backward my first computer 25+ years ago used a tape drive

[14:27:11]

justinh:

generally though what is it about mkv? my guess is that it's now the format of choice for pirates

[14:27:16]

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[14:27:56]

GreyFoxx:

justinh: One thing I like is it has basic menu support , and better timing information than AVI's so less likely to have audio sync errors

[14:27:57]

DustyBin:

ive never been one for piracy but since reading about how blue ray works my thoughts have changed..

[14:28:36]

keith4:

is there a viable way to rip blue-ray yet that doesn't involve jumping through hoops?

[14:28:44]

keith4:

i haven't kept up with the progress on that front

[14:28:46]

justinh:

bah I'll just continue to not buy into the whole HD disc format crap

[14:29:02]

justinh:

after all – what am I likely to miss? FA

[14:29:20]

DustyBin:

a few extra pixels!

[14:29:36]

DustyBin:

skin and hair detail :P

[14:29:41]

justinh:

considering I can't even remember the last time I bought a DVD..

[14:29:49]

** DustyBin imagines what a HD porn would look like.. **

[14:30:11]

keith4:

the porn industry has been turned on its head by HD movies

[14:30:17]

DustyBin:

:D

[14:30:17]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, messy

[14:30:26]

keith4:

dramatic increase in the need for cosmetic surgery

[14:30:50]

DustyBin:

in the mean time, ill stick with television x :D

[14:31:35]

justinh:

Eastenders in HD... though the way they're going they're gonna need tall-o-vision to be able to fit the massive foreheads onscreen

[14:31:51]

DustyBin:

lol

[14:32:12]

justinh:

dagenham facelift-aliscious

[14:32:40]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, since when is television x porn? it's "smut" in a page 3 sense at best!

[14:33:01]

justinh:

seriously though people need to stop buying into HD formats til the 2 factions get a ducking clue

[14:33:18]

justinh:

early adoption is killing common sense

[14:33:19]

DustyBin:

toshiba hd-dvd ftw

[14:33:33]

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[14:33:37]

DustyBin:

death to sony

[14:33:40]

keith4:

lots of people just bought xbox 360s or PS3s, and didn't get a choice of format

[14:33:49]

justinh:

keith4: course they had a choice

[14:33:57]

justinh:

don't buy

[14:34:16]

keith4:

well, sure... but i wanted to play rock band!

[14:34:17]

justinh:

the more consumers just lie down, the more the media companies will try to shaft everybody

[14:34:33]

keith4:

and besides, i put linux and mythtv frontend on the PS3

[14:34:38]

keith4:

so it's sort-of ok

[14:34:40]

directhex|bsp:

why bother?

[14:34:45]

DustyBin:

http://mostly-linux.blogspot.com/2006/06/top- . . . r-be-in.html

[14:34:58]

keith4:

that's so 6-months ago

[14:35:09]

keith4:

directhex|bsp: because it duals boots?

[14:35:09]

DustyBin:

hehe

[14:35:09]

roothorick:

I have a not-so-small issue

[14:35:16]

xand:

keith4: you mean 18

[14:35:24]

keith4:

dammit

[14:35:27]

GreyFoxx:

I'm pondering an HD-DVD to go with my xbox360. I'd rather find a good player that does both formats

[14:35:38]

roothorick:

I have a computer with only two PCI slots, and I need to add wireless internet, firewire, a TV tuner, AND a soundcard to it

[14:35:52]

** DustyBin would never own a microsoft or sony gamebox **

[14:35:53]

justinh:

course regardless of GPL stuff, it wouldn't be so bad if there was ANY linux support

[14:35:54]

keith4:

some soundcards have firewire

[14:35:57]

roothorick:

wireless can easily be USB, but the other three I have to juggle somehow

[14:36:07]

xand:

TV and sound can also be USB

[14:36:21]

GreyFoxx:

DustyBin: My mom bought it for me last xmas because she misheard a coversation I had withmy father and assumed Iwanted one

[14:36:22]

roothorick:

oh forgot

[14:36:23]

directhex|bsp:

i have a ps3, and as a result, a couple of blu-ray movies

[14:36:28]

DustyBin:

aye ok

[14:36:32]

roothorick:

there's a special stipulation on the soundcard

[14:36:38]

GreyFoxx:

now that I can play my mythvideo content on it it's being useful to me

[14:36:41]

roothorick:

it MUST have digital (SPDIF or TOSlink) in AND out

[14:36:54]

xand:

roothorick: should think you could get that on a USB one

[14:37:00]

justinh:

heh roothorick you're gonna have a nice small box with lots of ugly tentacles :P

[14:37:08]

keith4:

directhex|bsp: the real reason is that i'm waiting for a replacement video card to ship for my frontend, but i was jonesing for some TV-sans-commercials

[14:37:10]

** GreyFoxx reboot his pc to see if he broke his mbr **

[14:37:10]

directhex|bsp:

tentacular!

[14:37:17]

roothorick:

justinh: there's nothing small about it, haha

[14:37:27]

directhex|bsp:

keith4, wake me when ps3 linux stops sucking so much

[14:37:35]

roothorick:

it's a standard size MicroATX case

[14:37:49]

roothorick:

actually, you know, if I bought a different motherboard...

[14:37:51]

justinh:

more the fool you for buying such a crap system then :)

[14:37:55]

keith4:

directhex|bsp: i put debian on it.... seems okay

[14:38:05]

keith4:

roothorick: find a combo sound + firewire card

[14:38:12]

roothorick:

justinh: I never did originally buy it

[14:38:26]

directhex|bsp:

keith4, audigy!

[14:38:29]

roothorick:

well... okay, I did buy the mobo... almost a adecade ago

[14:38:50]

roothorick:

anyone have any suggestions for a motherboard for an Athlon Tbird?

[14:38:57]

justinh:

still waiting for the pci-e card explosion to happen

[14:39:08]

roothorick:

and yeah, I'm dead serious

[14:39:16]

justinh:

of course, it hasn't.. and is unlikely to

[14:39:29]

xand:

roothorick: ebay

[14:39:32]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, nobody makes them

[14:40:07]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, i use pcie graphics, and my BE has pcie networking

[14:40:26]

xand:

roothorick: and what about network? :

[14:40:28]

keith4:

roothorick: directhex|bsp is right.... pci audigy (sounds + firewire) pci tv tuner, wireless USB... you're in business

[14:40:49]

xand:

oh, wireless

[14:40:53]

directhex|bsp:

if this is a via chipset, you're fecked

[14:40:56]

xand:

though, probably USB1.1 on that board ;)

[14:40:58]

directhex|bsp:

to put it politely :)

[14:41:02]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: it is...

[14:41:06]

keith4:

oy

[14:41:08]

roothorick:

the original KT133

[14:41:09]

keith4:

forget ig

[14:41:14]

roothorick:

please don't laugh

[14:41:14]

keith4:

it, too

[14:41:28]

directhex|bsp:

kt133? fantastic, youcan't even copy files larger than 512mib on the onboard ide :)

[14:41:34]

roothorick:

yes, the one with the broken PCI bus

[14:41:38]

justinh:

my point is, there's plenty of pci-e graphics cards out there but little else

[14:41:44]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: glad it helped.

[14:41:52]

quicksilver:

grdnerd: a powered splitter may solve the problem then

[14:42:00]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, networking it's the norm

[14:42:07]

xand:

justinh: pci-e sata and network cards

[14:42:08]

keith4:

roothorick: you're going to spend more money trying to make that work than it would cost for a new motherboard + processor

[14:42:21]

justinh:

directhex|bsp: yeah but for everything else.. it's PCI or bust

[14:42:25]

directhex|bsp:

justinh, all onboard networking is implemented as pcie these days, and expansion cards are available too as a result

[14:42:39]

roothorick:

keith4: the problem with the motherboard+processor route is i'd have to buy new RAM and a new videocard too... shit adds up

[14:43:09]

justinh:

roothorick: so it's not worth doing then!

[14:43:10]

keith4:

yah, but you need wireless-G, which means you need usb 2, which means you're out of slots again...

[14:43:34]

xand:

I'd go for wired if you can :|

[14:43:36]

roothorick:

keith4: it's an all-in-one... front+db+back in a single machine

[14:43:58]

roothorick:

xand: wired is hard to do when one layer of your ceiling is a solid steel plate

[14:44:11]

keith4:

geez, are you in jail?

[14:44:11]

justinh:

good luck making wireless work then :D

[14:44:21]

roothorick:

justinh: it does, surprisingly

[14:44:32]

xand:

run the cable outside or drill a hole ;)

[14:44:35]

roothorick:

keith4: ceiling radiant heat. The entire ceiling is one gigantic radiator

[14:44:53]

directhex|bsp:

that seems silly. warm air rises, it doesn't fall

[14:45:00]

justinh:

aye

[14:45:02]

justinh:

more than silly

[14:45:14]

justinh:

maybe the laws of physics are different in those apartments

[14:45:18]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: the theory is the ceiling radiates heat directly upon you, saving energy. In practice it doesn't fly

[14:45:45]

roothorick:

under the right conditions, it CAN work

[14:45:52]

roothorick:

but you need state-of-the-art windows

[14:46:14]

directhex|bsp:

vista!

[14:46:47]

roothorick:

heh

[14:47:04]

grdnerd:

quicksilver

[14:47:21]

directhex|bsp:

moonlight!

[14:47:50]

roothorick:

hmm

[14:47:55]

grdnerd:

quicksilver: yeah, because I would like to get a second card, I went from a 4-way splitter to now using a 2 way and it seems to work

[14:48:37]

roothorick:

for $90 I can get a board with 4 PCI slots, takes a RAM standarrd I have a stick of to spare, and takes the CPU I have in my HTPC

[14:48:51]

roothorick:

tempting, it is

[14:49:20]

roothorick:

that mobo + sound + capture and I'm set

[14:50:02]

roothorick:

on a 1.4Ghz processor I should easily be able to get away with a frame grabber

[14:50:51]

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[14:53:07]

directhex|bsp:

as long as you don't mind the other downsides to them

[14:54:34]

roothorick:

I've heard allegations about picture quality issues...

[14:54:45]

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[14:54:57]

directhex|bsp:

terrible picture quality is one detail, yes

[14:55:00]

directhex|bsp:

interop is another

[14:55:37]

roothorick:

I know about the Hauppauge cards, but can I go cheaper and stay in the realm of hardware encoders?

[14:56:00]

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[14:57:47]

keith4:

roothorick: ebay a pvr-250

[14:57:50]

keith4:

or a 150

[14:58:44]

i3ooi3oo:

just got a 250 for 30

[14:58:59]

keith4:

good deal

[14:59:09]

keith4:

i remember paying $80 for those not that long ago

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[15:02:53]

DustyBin:

when buying a 26" LCD TV for mythtv im going to make sure it has DVI + VGA inputs, 1:1 Pixel Mapping, are there any other features i should look out for?

[15:03:29]

i3ooi3oo:

high contrast ratio

[15:03:35]

DustyBin:

aye ok

[15:03:49]

i3ooi3oo:

anf low gray to gray time 2ms is good

[15:03:57]

DustyBin:

ok

[15:04:18]

roothorick:

so what's the difference between the vanilla 150 and the MCE?

[15:04:28]

i3ooi3oo:

ir

[15:05:22]

roothorick:

heh. I'm holding out for a while on getting an HDTV

[15:05:52]

roothorick:

I know what I'm getting when I finally cave — 1080p DLP rear projection with an LED engine

[15:05:56]

i3ooi3oo:

i got a projector insted

[15:06:11]

i3ooi3oo:

DLP

[15:06:19]

DGnome:

DustyBin: hdmi is also good for mythtv, all you need is a dvi/hdmi converter, costs about 20euro

[15:06:32]

roothorick:

i3ooi3oo: I'd go the projector route too if they offered projectors with LED powerplants

[15:06:40]

i3ooi3oo:

they do

[15:06:44]

roothorick:

and I mean real, home theater class projectors

[15:06:45]

i3ooi3oo:

most are LCD

[15:06:51]

i3ooi3oo:

they do

[15:06:56]

roothorick:

show me

[15:07:07]

DustyBin:

DGnome: ok

[15:07:14]

DGnome:

DustyBin: gray to gray times are not so important when only watching tv

[15:07:51]

DGnome:

DustyBin: real (not dynamic) contrast IS important

[15:08:22]

roothorick:

heh

[15:08:25]

DustyBin:

ok ive made a note of all this, im going to have a chat to the John Lewis staff next time i go shoping

[15:08:30]

roothorick:

precisely why I hate LCDs

[15:08:48]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, because every crt is fantastic always?

[15:09:02]

i3ooi3oo:

roothorick: http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cf . . . 1&trig=1

[15:09:18]

roothorick:

directhex|bsp: not always, but yes, CRTs tend to beat LCDs by a significant margin

[15:09:28]

DGnome:

At the moment, I'd buy either the LG 42LF65 or 42LF75.

[15:09:42]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, a bit big for a bedroom

[15:09:46]

DGnome:

FullHD 1:1 LCD ftw

[15:09:46]

i3ooi3oo:

except for the size and power issues

[15:09:49]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, good value though

[15:10:21]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp: I'll be sitting 3 meters from it so I think it's kindof on the limit to being small :)

[15:10:28]

DustyBin:

so this is it: LCD Television 26" / HDMI VGA Inputs / 1:1 pixel mapping / good grey to grey times / good real contrast ratio

[15:10:54]

roothorick:

i3ooi3oo: I'm all for image quality, but don't you think a $25k projector is just a little overkill for my livingroom?

[15:11:15]

directhex|bsp:

roothorick, i haven't owned a CRT for years. they hurt my eyes

[15:11:20]

DGnome:

DustyBin: LG Electronics is usually good value :)

[15:11:32]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, lucky goldstar!

[15:11:42]

DustyBin:

DGnome: there is a lot of brands to research

[15:11:57]

DustyBin:

DGnome: id like to know who really makes the screens for the brands

[15:12:06]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp: i ordered a 42LF65 but it's an old model already so I may have to go for a 42LF75

[15:12:22]

directhex|bsp:

DustyBin, depends on serial number. samsung use 3 manufacturers just for 1 model

[15:12:30]

DGnome:

DustyBin: there a re 2 or 3 manufacturers of S-IPS LCD-panels

[15:12:31]

DustyBin:

jeeze

[15:12:39]

DGnome:

DustyBin: make sure it's an S-IPS panel if you want LCD

[15:12:48]

roothorick:

i3ooi3oo: and which one has an LED engine?

[15:12:49]

** DustyBin makes another note :D **

[15:12:50]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, REALLY hard to verify

[15:13:16]

directhex|bsp:

and i'd go for PVA over S-IPA personally. TN is the type to avoid

[15:13:30]

directhex|bsp:

if you can find it on the spec sheet, the most important panel-related stat to check is color depth

[15:13:36]

directhex|bsp:

NEVER buy a screen with 16.2m colors

[15:13:40]

directhex|bsp:

16.7m only

[15:13:45]

** DustyBin makes another note :D **

[15:14:34]

directhex|bsp:

16.2m means 6-bit TN panel, with a maximum of 260k real colors. extra colors are added by dithering adjacent pixels

[15:14:51]

DustyBin:

ok

[15:15:19]

DustyBin:

S-IPS v PVA what is the difference?

[15:15:22]

roothorick:

I wonder what the chances are that you could get a DMD in a DLP projector replaced if it got busted

[15:15:22]

directhex|bsp:

the TV/IPA/PVA issue isn't as important as some make out, as long as it's a GOOD TN, and not a 6-bit thing

[15:15:38]

directhex|bsp:

IPS, not IPA, sorry

[15:16:12]

directhex|bsp:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#Types

[15:17:12]

directhex|bsp:

s-ips has poor contrast compared to pva. but both will be expensive compared to the more popular tn. like i said, worry more about color depth than panel type

[15:17:47]

DGnome:

Sortof wish they can't get any 42LF65 tv:s anymore so that I'd have to be less cheap and buy a 42LF75 now that I'm in my spenderpants =P

[15:18:12]

DustyBin:

LCD Television 26" / HDMI VGA Inputs / 1:1 pixel mapping / Grey to Grey Times / Real Contrast Ratio / S-IPS or PVA panel / 16.7m colour depth

[15:18:19]

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[15:18:43]

DGnome:

nice :)

[15:18:50]

DustyBin:

thanks for your help :D

[15:19:02]

directhex|bsp:

i'd push for digital audio out, so you can connect to an amp ;)

[15:19:11]

DustyBin:

oh yes, i didnt think of that

[15:19:19]

i3ooi3oo:

roothorick: the ones that say LCD in the last column

[15:20:15]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp && DustyBin :: The display usually never needs a digital audio out.

[15:20:43]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp && directhex|bsp :: more important is that you buy devices that you can assign different outputs

[15:20:50]

DGnome:

the TV should never have logic

[15:20:56]

DGnome:

it should be just a display

[15:21:02]

** DustyBin makes another note :D **

[15:21:04]

directhex|bsp:

DGnome, i'd disagree – anything you hook up via SCART for instance, or if you want to use the built-in tuner...

[15:21:13]

DGnome:

oh god

[15:21:26]

DGnome:

built-in shoud be avoided to all cost

[15:21:41]

DGnome:

digitalisation of tv has been hell in .fi due to built in shit

[15:21:51]

directhex|bsp:

but this isn't .fi

[15:22:03]

DGnome:

and will be hell when we get h.264 over DVB-T :)

[15:22:14]

directhex|bsp:

well, yes, but that's a problem for later

[15:22:20]

DGnome:

2010

[15:22:28]

directhex|bsp:

but this isn't .fi

[15:22:43]

DGnome:

so? you may run into similar problems :)

[15:23:56]

directhex|bsp:

we don;t even shut down analog until 2012. he should spend the same money on a less functional tv, and need to use an extra remote for at least 4 pointless years?

[15:24:50]

DGnome:

I have only three remotes thanks to mythtv

[15:25:06]

xand:

only

[15:25:09]

DGnome:

Display, AV-Receiver and mythtv

[15:26:22]

directhex|bsp:

even on a high end receiver, there are times you want to hook up devices straight into the tv

[15:26:39]

directhex|bsp:

and without using dodgy extension cables, you can't always redirect the audio yourself

[15:26:57]

directhex|bsp:

i'd rather have as few analog paths as possible, i'd prefer to use digital between tv and amp

[15:27:10]

DGnome:

My Onkyo lets me do anything with digital IO

[15:27:19]

directhex|bsp:

not quite

[15:27:42]

DGnome:

I can assign any digital sound to any of the hdmi ports on it

[15:27:57]

directhex|bsp:

yes, quite. but i'm not talking about hdmi

[15:28:04]

directhex|bsp:

do i have to pull out practical examples?

[15:28:41]

DGnome:

well, if the analog signal stops at the mythtv box, where do you need analog scheit after that then?

[15:29:09]

DGnome:

maybe audio

[15:29:11]

DGnome:

just maybe

[15:29:18]

directhex|bsp:

fine.

[15:29:22]

directhex|bsp:

nintendo wii.

[15:29:39]

directhex|bsp:

onkyo amps cannot handle 50hz virtual console games via component from a wii

[15:30:01]

DGnome:

not fun unless you are drunk, I'd never let myself near my AV-centra when being that drunk

[15:30:20]

directhex|bsp:

so i need to hoko the wii directly into the tv. the cable for the wii has very short audio links.do i A) connect them to the TV, or B) get lon dodgy rca extension leads and hook them into the amp?

[15:31:23]

DGnome:

I'd get proper cabling and connect it to the amp

[15:31:34]

directhex|bsp:

and be incapable of playing virtual console games

[15:31:37]

directhex|bsp:

ding ding you lose game over

[15:32:06]

DGnome:

what onkyo model exactly will not accept 50Hz component video?

[15:32:14]

directhex|bsp:

605

[15:32:39]

DGnome:

intresting, never intend to use component so I dont worry

[15:32:57]

directhex|bsp:

fine until the res drops off below a certain level

[15:33:35]

directhex|bsp:

you'd still recommend DustyBin actively seek a less functional tv? bear in mind things like optical out on tv tend to be on better sets – i.e. the ones which also have better panels

[15:35:24]

DGnome:

I never said you should not buy one that has digital out

[15:36:14]

DGnome:

I just dont trust AD conversions in things which are not fot the purpose

[15:39:10]

roothorick:

so

[15:39:54]

roothorick:

if I want to capture digital signals for MythTV (HDTV optional, I really only care about standard digital), what are my options for capture cards?

[15:40:04]

GreyFoxx:

mrg: I think the push is one with 0.21 nearing :)

[15:40:07]

GreyFoxx:

oops

[15:40:11]

roothorick:

and no, firewire won't fly

[15:40:23]

xand:

roothorick: from what source?

[15:40:30]

DGnome:

roothorick: check linuxtv supported atsc hardware maybe?

[15:40:45]

roothorick:

xand: antenna or cable

[15:41:20]

DGnome:

roothorick: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_Devices <-- there maybe

[15:41:21]

xand:

hauppauge wintv nova-t 500 seems to be a good dual-tuner dvb-t card, assuming that's what you have over there

[15:41:41]

roothorick:

I just need a basic single-tuner stream grabber

[15:41:43]

directhex|bsp:

xand, dvb-t in yankland? don't be silly!

[15:41:53]

roothorick:

not going for anything fancy here

[15:41:59]

directhex|bsp:

xand, yankland uses the choice of guam and puerto rico: atsc!

[15:42:09]

DGnome:

directhex|bsp: :D

[15:42:43]

roothorick:

I wonder...

[15:43:07]

roothorick:

HDTV and so-called "digital SD", it all goes over the same protocol, right?

[15:43:12]

directhex|bsp:

right

[15:43:25]

roothorick:

so any card thata supports that protocol, automatically supports HDTV?

[15:44:06]

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[15:45:02]

GreyFoxx:

It's not about supporting a resolution as much as supporting a modulation/sourcetype

[15:45:10]

directhex|bsp:

that's the theory

[15:45:17]

GreyFoxx:

so you want a card that can handle either ATSC for OTA digital transmissions

[15:45:28]

GreyFoxx:

Or QAM for cable based digital transmissions

[15:45:34]

GreyFoxx:

or better, one that does both

[15:45:39]

roothorick:

err wait

[15:45:42]

GreyFoxx:

a lot of them these days do both

[15:45:57]

GreyFoxx:

the cards don't really know what is in them, so the resolution is irrelevant

[15:46:22]

roothorick:

the guy at the cableco said that any TV currently on the market will be able to make use of the signals they pipe into my home for the next 20 years

[15:47:15]

GreyFoxx:

roothorick: That's not specific enough to comment on

[15:47:32]

GreyFoxx:

either he assumes the TV has a QAM based tuner for accessing unencrypted content directly

[15:47:49]

GreyFoxx:

OR he is referring to analog+hdmi inputs on the TV to get the signal from a STB

[15:48:36]

roothorick:

I specifically asked about using said TV "without extra equipmment"

[15:48:52]

DGnome:

20 years is still a bit, pulled out off someones ass

[15:48:56]

roothorick:

hopefully getting the point across that I don't intend to buy STBs for every TV in the house

[15:48:56]

GreyFoxx:

hehe

[15:49:01]

roothorick:

DGnome: mine actually

[15:49:10]

roothorick:

it was just to get the point across

[15:49:39]

roothorick:

the HDTV Wonder is looking like a winner

[15:49:40]

DGnome:

in 20 years we'll have UHD and DVB nor ATSC stanadard will suffice!

[15:49:52]

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[15:49:58]

roothorick:

because it has analog, ATSC, QAM, and adds something my HTPC is desperately missing — a remote

[15:50:06]

xand:

you're forgetting the impending armaggedon

[15:50:07]

xand:

(sp)

[15:50:09]

DGnome:

roothorick: ask around other yanks who do computerbased tv-watching before you buy :)

[15:50:22]

GreyFoxx:

roothorick: maybe sure you check the linuxtv list just to be sure it's supported driverwise

[15:50:36]

roothorick:

GreyFoxx: I'm researching it on the wiki right now

[15:50:47]

GreyFoxx:

I use a A180, (only for QAM stuff)

[15:51:31]

roothorick:

the wiki implies that all three video formats are supported with the card, but doesn't outright say it... anyone with more experience with it?

[15:53:06]

roothorick:

it's very much so a I-must-know-before-I-buy thing

[15:53:12]

DGnome:

Digital killed the analogue star

[15:53:25]

roothorick:

no analog support would be a showstopper right now

[15:54:01]

xand:

people still use analog tv? :|

[15:54:10]

roothorick:

yes

[15:54:16]

roothorick:

some 90% of the US population

[15:54:23]

xand:

wow.

[15:54:25]

DGnome:

how horrid

[15:54:43]

GreyFoxx:

or they are digital settop boxes with analog outputs to the television

[15:54:55]

DGnome:

think of not having EIT

[15:55:08]

xand:

don't need EIT when RT xmltv is working :)

[15:55:24]

DGnome:

xmltv seems less reliable :)

[15:55:27]

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[15:55:37]

roothorick:

GreyFoxx: in my case, it's a digital set-top box with an analog tuner, encoding the analog signal, throwing its interface on top of it, and then decoding to send to my analog TV

[15:55:45]

roothorick:

which is just the SOP for Time Warner here

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[16:04:11]

roothorick:

looks like the HDTV Wonder is fully supported

[16:04:23]

skyphyr:

hi all – I'm trying to figure out what my options are for satellite tuner cards which will work now (I'm in the UK), and support dvb-s2 when it's running on mythtv?

[16:04:46]

roothorick:

there's a Linux DVB driver and a V4L driver that are designed to work in tandem for both digital and analog signals respectively

[16:05:08]

roothorick:

skyphyr: I'm on the other side of the ocean; can't help you there

[16:05:29]

skyphyr:

no worries, roothorick :-) thanks anyway – google seems to send me around in circles

[16:05:37]

directhex|bsp:

skyphyr, dvb-s2 hasn't been finalised in linux yet

[16:08:34]

skyphyr:

thanks directhex, that was the impression I got, but there seemed to be some people mentioning having dvb-s2 cards which worked with hd dvb-s broadcasts on linux? the HV4000 (can check) might have been mentioned

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[16:11:00]

directhex|bsp:

experiemntal support in linuxtv hg

[16:11:10]

directhex|bsp:

http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DVB-S2_PCI_Cards

[16:14:20]

anykey_:

2008-01–03 17:10:20.175 MythMediaDevice, Error: readlink() failed: eno: Invalid argument (22) <- anyone seen these messages in the frontend log?

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[16:14:47]

directhex|bsp:

anykey_, what kind of tuner?

[16:14:59]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: dvb. Is this tuner related?

[16:15:11]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: I thought more of a mythvideo/dvd thing

[16:15:22]

anykey_:

because it's in the frontend (which has nothing to do with tuners

[16:15:23]

directhex|bsp:

anykey_, maybe. dvb-s?

[16:15:27]

anykey_:

dvb-c

[16:15:37]

directhex|bsp:

cam?

[16:15:41]

anykey_:

yes

[16:16:27]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: repeating about 10 times per second in the log

[16:16:41]

MaxeyPad:

anyone got optical output with the turtle beach cmedia chipset working in a pci card under mythtv?

[16:17:27]

directhex|bsp:

anykey_, looks related to the "watch drive" option

[16:17:42]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: yeah. I thought so too

[16:17:59]

skyphyr:

thanks directhex – so support in linuxtv means support in mythtv?

[16:18:11]

directhex|bsp:

skyphyr, yes

[16:18:41]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: messages still there, disabled it

[16:18:45]

skyphyr:

great – thanks for clarifying that. and dvb-s2 cards are able to hand dvb-s as well?

[16:19:28]

directhex|bsp:

skyphyr, in theory

[16:19:40]

directhex|bsp:

skyphyr, it's all a bit experiemntal right now

[16:22:29]

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[16:23:32]

mkrufky:

hvr4000 is known to work in both dvb-s and dvb-s2, but one must install the external patch to add support for it, and most apps dont support dvb-s2 yet, nor do i blame them, since the dvb-s developers have still not reached an agreement as per the new multiproto api :-(

[16:25:29]

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[16:25:39]

skyphyr:

great stuff – thanks for the info all – there's not much dvb-s2 content about from what I've seen – so it looks like if I grab a hvr4000 I should be right for dvb-s now, and dvb-s2 when it's sorted :D

[16:27:43]

directhex|bsp:

there's no dvb-s2 in the uk

[16:29:03]

skyphyr:

but it's planned for the HD broadcasts when they begin, no?

[16:29:22]

skyphyr:

though I think I saw that BBC HD is dvb-s now

[16:30:24]

directhex|bsp:

all current hd broadcasts in uk-centric birds are dvb-s

[16:30:27]

directhex|bsp:

h264 though

[16:32:21]

directhex|bsp:

hey, i'm wrong! some of sky's encrypted transponders are dvb-s2

[16:32:24]

directhex|bsp:

who knew? O_o

[16:34:47]

anykey_:

directhex|bsp: the messages were a bug fixed in 15107 ;)

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[16:39:53]

anykey_:

When would myth mount a DVD?!

[16:41:39]

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[16:42:04]

hashbang:

heya

[16:42:28]

hashbang:

why would MythTV use Xv to scale video when the output display size matches that of the mpeg it's trying to play?

[16:43:14]

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[16:43:52]

directhex|bsp:

xv does more than just scale. why, is there a problem?

[16:44:19]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: yup; I use a VGA to SCART cable with a true PAL modeline

[16:44:51]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: when MythTV runs normally, the OSD is blurry and badly-scaled, and each scanline appears to be doubled (nVidia 9631 drivers)

[16:45:06]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: running with NO_XV=1 makes it look beautiful, but uses ~80% CPU

[16:45:26]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: obviously, I'd like the best of both worlds. :-)

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[16:48:27]

alexvd:

Anyone run into the issue where rewinding to 0.00 in a recording locks up the frontend. Running mythbuntu 7.10

[16:49:01]

hashbang:

alexvd: no, but I see similar things if I manage to hit an aspect ratio change when I'm FF/RW and switch to play.

[16:49:49]

alexvd:

hashbang: I will try that but I dont thing I have had that issue

[16:50:11]

alexvd:

hashbang: sd or hdtv

[16:50:29]

hashbang:

alexvd: The Simpsons and The Daily Show tend to be the usual culprits here, as they're 4:3 and adverts are 16:9

[16:51:33]

alexvd:

hashbang: so just to be clear when the aspect ratio of the channel changes not you manually changing the aspect ratio

[16:52:07]

hashbang:

alexvd: correct

[16:52:09]

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[16:52:27]

hashbang:

alexvd: UK DVB-T broadcasts

[16:52:47]

alexvd:

hasbang: I dont have that issue at all. What does top output for CPU usage. What do the logs say?

[16:53:44]

alexvd:

hashbang: I am running ATSC with DVB drivers and happaugge tuners. What are the specs on your frontend

[16:54:16]

hashbang:

alexvd: Celeron 1.7GHz, FC8, nVidia 440MX

[16:54:24]

hashbang:

alexvd: SD TV only

[16:54:36]

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[16:55:08]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: any more thoughts?

[16:55:27]

alexvd:

hashbang: that should run SD fine.

[16:55:56]

directhex|bsp:

hashbang, no. i don't have any experience with this stuff

[16:55:59]

hashbang:

alexvd: yup, it has done for ~2 years; 3 DVB-T tuners, these days, combined backend, and it's also my firewall and DNS. :-)

[16:56:21]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: anyone else on the channel know the playback code well?

[16:56:31]

hashbang:

directhex|bsp: thanks anyway. :-)

[16:56:39]

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[16:57:16]

alexvd:

hashbang: I would check that driver. I am using the same one. It is not as good as the old 8756. The mx440 is considered legacy. I have had a lot of issues with 9631, tearing and blocking

[16:58:43]

hashbang:

alexvd: works perfectly for me, apart from the choice between half vertical resolution on Xv, or high CPU usage. :-/

[16:59:02]

alexvd:

perfect then :)

[16:59:54]

hashbang:

hmmm

[17:00:01]

** hashbang wanders off to try something **

[17:00:59]

alexvd:

hasbang: btw I meant nvidia 8776

[17:07:54]

roothorick:

8xxx is hella old

[17:08:14]

roothorick:

get latest 9xxx or the new 100 series depending on your chipset

[17:08:24]

alexvd:

yes I just realized that useevents= wont work with that

[17:09:15]

alexvd:

something is wrong though I think I was using 9746 with no tearing. I changed to mythbuntu and now its f8cke

[17:09:34]

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[17:17:46]

hashbang:

alexvd: yeah, I used to use 8776 when I was on FC6(?), but I had to hack it a bit to build with the FC8 kernel

[17:17:59]

hashbang:

alexvd: I think it worked the same way, anyway, w.r.t. to scaling

[17:19:10]

alexvd:

hashbang: well they did create a way to lower cpu dramatically for xorg by doing the option useevents=true in 9XXX so I need to go back to those.

[17:26:37]

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[17:36:33]

hashbang:

alexvd: Hmmm... I think it might be a bug or design issue with XVideo and interlaced video

[17:36:41]

hashbang:

alexvd: from the research I've done

[17:37:05]

hashbang:

alexvd: even though plain interlaced framebuffer stuff works fine in nVidia drivers these days

[17:38:00]

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[17:43:17]

** hashbang wonders whether switching to an ATI card in his spares box might help **

[17:43:32]

roothorick:

I have a game plan now

[17:43:44]

roothorick:

USB wireless, USB sound, PCI tuner and firewire

[17:43:49]

roothorick:

videocard is, of course, AGP

[17:44:06]

roothorick:

when I buy the HDTV, I'll upgrade the card to something with DVI, for obvious reasons

[17:44:07]

alexvd:

hashbang: aware of the interlace bug with nvidia and no switching to ATI is not a good idea

[17:45:21]

roothorick:

if you need to play interlaced video on an nV card, use a software deinterlacer

[17:45:27]

roothorick:

or just put up with the scanlines

[17:46:52]

alexvd:

yes i run one but still having issues. funny i never had them before and wondered what everyone was complaining about. It only happens on the top half of the screen

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[17:55:51]

skyphyr:

excuse the particularly stupid question, but is mythtv involved if you use a DiSEqC motor?

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[18:07:12]

justdave:

don't know if anyone remembers me having problems with audio from everything except the tuner card working fine, and the tuner card audio only working sometimes... usually a reboot fixed it but not always...

[18:07:20]

justdave:

when it didn't work, it was complaining about /dev/dsp being in use

[18:07:25]

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[18:07:39]

justdave:

for the record (in case anyone else ever comes along having that problem) I did solve it...

[18:07:59]

justdave:

changed the audio output device in Settings > General from /dev/dsp to ALSA:default

[18:08:28]

justdave:

that seemed to fix it (haven't had it happen again since doing that anyway)

[18:21:44]

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[18:28:02]

Mr_Grieves:

I too have a alsa issue. mplayer, aplay, etc all work through my iec958 by default, but when I try to use myth there is no sound.

[18:28:44]

Mr_Grieves:

Some interesting lines from my frontend's log:

[18:28:44]

Mr_Grieves:

ALSA lib pcm.c:2144:(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM cards.pcm.iec9582008-01–03 12:26:00.341 AudioOutput Error: snd_pcm_open(cards.pcm.iec958): No such file or directory2008-01–03 12:26:00.341 NVP: Disabling Audio, reason is: snd_pcm_open(cards.pcm.iec958): No such file or directory

[18:29:31]

hatchmt:

I just have my sound set to ALSA:Default and it works fine w/ both PCM and AC3 passthrough

[18:29:58]

Mr_Grieves:

The settings in myth are exactly the same as those here: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/DigitalSoundHowTo

[18:30:11]

hatchmt:

Yeah, mine didn't work following those instructions either.

[18:31:03]

Mr_Grieves:

hatchmt: I just tried that a minute ago, no luck :( when I do the logs say it can find the card at all :(

[18:31:13]

hatchmt:

huh

[18:32:57]

Mr_Grieves:

What's really frustrating is that I had everything working before, but my hard drive died. I'm using the same database and everything. The only difference I can think of is that I had to use in kernel alsa drivers, but still, everything else works but myth.

[18:41:44]

Mr_Grieves:

heh. I'm a moron.

[18:41:48]

hatchmt:

uh oh

[18:41:54]

Mr_Grieves:

mythtv wasn't in the audio group :)

[18:43:13]

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[18:54:50]

hashbang:

alexvd: yup; does seem to be an nvidia/interlace/Xv bug. Switching to ATI appeared to fix it, but my ATI card couldn't generate the 720x576 mode I use to actually watch TV, so ended up scaling to 1024x576 anyway – negating the benefits of a 1:1 mode anyway

[18:55:25]

hashbang:

roothorick: oh, I don't have (black) scanlines; just doubled scanlines on Xv output

[18:55:50]

hashbang:

roothorick: using the Linear Blend deinterlacer helps preserve shapes a bit, but it's not as good as running mythfrontend with NO_XV=1

[19:01:03]

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[19:16:13]

rushfan:

If something is XGA but "supports" 720p and 1080p, that basically means it displays the video but the quality wont actually be 720p, right?

[19:18:22]

iamlindoro__:

Downsamples it to display resolution, yes

[19:18:45]

iamlindoro__:

or rather, downscales

[19:19:22]

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[19:20:37]

i3ooi3oo:

xga is 1024x 768 which is > 720p

[19:22:31]

iamlindoro__:

not 16:9 720p, which is 1280x720

[19:24:38]

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[19:25:41]

alexvd:

does anyone know how to restart the frontend from commandline using mythbuntu

[19:25:50]

iamlindoro__:

mythfrontend

[19:26:02]

alexvd:

that stops and restarts it?

[19:26:13]

iamlindoro__:

frontend doesn't get "stopped"

[19:26:21]

iamlindoro__:

if you need to kill it, killall mythfrontend

[19:26:33]

iamlindoro__:

and start again from a terminal with mythfrontend

[19:26:52]

alexvd:

well I keep hitting what i think is a bug. if i reverse to 0.00 in a recording it locks the frontend

[19:27:11]

alexvd:

i knew how to restart in knoppmyth but its not the same for mythbuntu obviously

[19:27:12]

siXy:

you will need an X session on the terminal you start it from, unless you are going to use screen or similar

[19:27:13]

alexvd:

thanks

[19:27:35]

siXy:

alexvd: what version?

[19:27:48]

alexvd:

mythbuntu 7.10

[19:27:57]

alexvd:

with patches up to date

[19:28:11]

Daviey:

alexvd: Restart x?

[19:28:18]

alexvd:

I just want to ssh in restart the frontend

[19:28:19]

Daviey:

alexvd: sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart

[19:28:27]

alexvd:

ahh thats it thanks Davey

[19:28:29]

siXy:

alexvd: i would check our xorg log

[19:28:35]

siXy:

s/our/your/

[19:28:48]

alexvd:

siXy: huh

[19:29:12]

alexvd:

Sixy: isnt the log in /var/log/

[19:29:20]

iamlindoro__:

alexvd, Strange things happen sometimes with fast forward and rewind it can be sometimes be alleviated by changing the mpeg library... but siXy is right, sounds more like a X issue

[19:29:54]

iamlindoro__:

alexvd, s/our/your/ means "replace our with your"

[19:29:56]

siXy:

alexvd: yes it is. when did i say it wasn't?

[19:29:59]

alexvd:

ok i see what he was saying

[19:30:13]

alexvd:

no i didnt understand our your in unix speak

[19:30:19]

i3ooi3oo:

lol

[19:30:31]

siXy:

ah its seddish – it makes corrections a bit more precise (if you understand basic sed/ed/vi syntax)

[19:30:59]

alexvd:

siXy: learning after 4 years of getting myth to work :)

[19:31:00]

i3ooi3oo:

most people can't speak in geek

[19:31:01]

siXy:

s/foo/bar/ means search for foo and replace with bar

[19:31:39]

siXy:

i3ooi3oo: most people are not in this irc channel. want to correlate those two facts? :)

[19:32:48]

alexvd:

sometimes here can be nicer than the mythtv mailing list. Michael T doesnt yell at you here ;)

[19:33:37]

siXy:

Ah – i avoid mailing lists on the principle my inbox is full enough as it is (barring a few for work purposes)

[19:34:12]

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[19:34:18]

XSSammy:

hi

[19:35:05]

XSSammy:

i have a problem with my mythdvd installation and was hoping someone on here maybeable to offer me some advice?

[19:35:45]

iamlindoro__:

XSSammy, This is a passive channel, nobody jumps forward to offer assistance generally... ask your question and you will likely get an answer, though

[19:36:03]

XSSammy:

ok thanks for the advice

[19:36:03]

siXy:

heh he beat you too it iamlindoro :)

[19:36:15]

alexvd:

siXy: no errors in my xorg.log regarding the issue with the frontend hanging on rewind

[19:36:20]

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[19:36:31]

siXy:

XSSammy: we could do with knowing what the specific problem is however

[19:36:59]

siXy:

alexvd: you mean no errors, or none that you think are related?

[19:37:16]

netgear:

is there anyone willing to help me with myth-tv, i cannot seem to get to second stage of mythtv-setup

[19:37:23]

XSSammy:

siXy

[19:37:28]

netgear:

im not even sure if i have all that is installed

[19:37:37]

XSSammy:

i was just looking for a little more information for you

[19:37:50]

i3ooi3oo:

netgear: how did you install it ?

[19:38:00]

XSSammy:

as this being my first time in this channel i thought perhaps making a complete tit of myself should wait ;)

[19:38:05]

netgear:

im in ubuntu, used package manager

[19:38:21]

netgear:

i installed all that is mythtv and mythbuntu control centre as well

[19:38:34]

netgear:

im new to linux and pvr linux world

[19:38:45]

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[19:38:45]

netgear:

so its messy for me at the moment

[19:39:08]

siXy:

<XSSammy> i have a problem with my mythdvd installation << what problem, exactly?

[19:39:11]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, If you're brand new, probably easiest to download the actual Mythbuntu ISO and install using that... far cleaner and more likely to work

[19:39:11]

alexvd:

siXy: none related. I have a few warnings. I checked those all already and they are harmless

[19:39:30]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, What capture card are you working with? what, if any, IR?

[19:39:43]

netgear:

Hauppauge PVR USB 2

[19:39:47]

XSSammy:

i am unable to hear the sound correctly

[19:39:58]

netgear:

i dont have the means to downloa mythbuntu iso

[19:40:04]

i3ooi3oo:

did you look to see if it was supported ?

[19:40:24]

XSSammy:

i think it is a codec problem but i cannot narrow it down. It happens on certain videos and all dvds when i use the internal player

[19:40:24]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, well you obviously were able to apt-get stuff from ubuntu, what's the problem with getting an ISO?

[19:40:32]

netgear:

i know it is supported, i spoke to driver writer of that device and he suggested mythtv

[19:40:48]

siXy:

alexvd: I get very suspicious when people try to filter warnings/errors, but ok. Try starting the frontent in verbose mode, (mythfrontend --help for more info) and reproduce the probelm. you can then paste the output to http://rafb.net/paste

[19:40:56]

netgear:

im capped at 1gb of traffic per month, and i have about 250mb left

[19:40:59]

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[19:41:06]

iamlindoro__:

ugh, stupid UK internet

[19:41:17]

iamlindoro__:

or maybe not?

[19:41:20]

iamlindoro__:

Where are you?

[19:41:25]

netgear:

im actually in africa

[19:41:28]

iamlindoro__:

ah, ok

[19:41:38]

iamlindoro__:

Anyway, what's the problem with myth, then?

[19:41:38]

netgear:

its major expensive here for internet

[19:41:43]

siXy:

XSSammy: what audio device is sepcified in options > general ?

[19:41:55]

alexvd:

siXy: i will try and run it in verbose, that is a good idea. I have to do a business call so I will mess with it later

[19:42:07]

XSSammy:

dev/dsp

[19:42:10]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, Tell me what you're seeing

[19:42:13]

netgear:

when i run mythtv-setup i see stuff flying on a terminal about some error

[19:42:22]

siXy:

change that to ALSA:default

[19:42:37]

netgear:

my guess its something with sql thing

[19:42:46]

siXy:

alexvd: ok, i will probably still be here

[19:42:46]

XSSammy:

siXy: is that for me?

[19:42:51]

siXy:

XSSammy: yes

[19:42:56]

XSSammy:

thanks ;)

[19:42:58]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, That's generally correct...

[19:43:00]

netgear:

i cannot even copy that since its reproduced over and over

[19:43:26]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, you are running from an x-terminal, right? In graphical mode?

[19:43:34]

netgear:

ok, now do you mind telling me how to check to see if all is in place from start?

[19:43:39]

netgear:

yes from gnome i think

[19:43:51]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, And they're not identical, they're each a different database table failure

[19:43:56]

XSSammy:

siXy: no better

[19:44:15]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, did you get mysql set up, and did the database get populated?

[19:44:31]

siXy:

XSSammy: can you define more exactly what problems you are having?

[19:44:48]

netgear:

im not even sure how to answer yes or no

[19:44:51]

netgear:

how can i check

[19:45:03]

netgear:

my brain is swamped with reading and reading

[19:45:05]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, what user are you logged in as?

[19:45:09]

netgear:

user

[19:45:19]

iamlindoro__:

You called your user.... user?

[19:45:25]

netgear:

yes :)

[19:45:28]

iamlindoro__:

Yowch

[19:45:37]

netgear:

im not online much so doesnt matter

[19:45:49]

iamlindoro__:

ok, see if there is a /home/mythtv/.mythtv/mysql.txt file

[19:45:50]

XSSammy:

siXy: My sound works on my recordings and with most avi videos i have however when i try to play a dvd r certain avis i can hear sound but it sounds like static...

[19:46:49]

siXy:

XSSammy: can you check that libdvdread, libdvdnav and libdvdcss are all installed and up to date

[19:46:51]

netgear:

iamlindoro, no

[19:46:55]

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[19:47:02]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, do a locate mysql.txt

[19:47:22]

i3ooi3oo:

he might need to updatedb first if this is a new install or new file

[19:47:28]

netgear:

the only user that has one is user

[19:47:34]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, ok

[19:47:38]

netgear:

i allready did updatedb

[19:47:44]

netgear:

and reboot

[19:47:48]

i3ooi3oo:

ko

[19:47:48]

iamlindoro__:

that's fine

[19:48:28]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, take a look at that file... Ubuntu generates a random password for mysql... you need to look and write down your db user and password for me, and let me know when you are ready

[19:49:20]

netgear:

i have it

[19:49:28]

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[19:49:47]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, ok, now try – mysql -u (user from above) -p mythconverg

[19:49:56]

iamlindoro__:

and enter the password from above when asked

[19:50:09]

iamlindoro__:

and see if it lets you into the database

[19:50:41]

netgear:

access denied

[19:50:49]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, what is the username?

[19:51:05]

netgear:

DBuser is user

[19:51:12]

netgear:

and i used user

[19:51:15]

siXy:

it gets better :D

[19:51:15]

iamlindoro__:

ok

[19:51:30]

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[19:51:42]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, while we're working this problem, just to eliminate one possible thing, do an sudo apt-get install libqt3-mt-mysql

[19:51:51]

iamlindoro__:

to make sure it's installed

[19:52:06]

iamlindoro__:

and tell me if it wasn't, btw

[19:52:37]

netgear:

libqt3-mt-mysql is already the newest version.

[19:52:38]

netgear:

libqt3-mt-mysql set to manual installed.

[19:52:47]

iamlindoro__:

Ugh, I hate Ubuntu random password crappp

[19:53:02]

netgear:

how can i try to change that password?

[19:53:03]

XSSammy:

siXy: libdvdcss2/etch uptodate 1.2.9–0.0, libdvdnav4/etch uptodate 0.1.10–0.1

[19:53:08]

siXy:

one more reason not to use ubuntu :)

[19:53:15]

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[19:53:17]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, try sudo dpkg-reconfigure mythtv-common

[19:53:25]

XSSammy:

libdvdread3/etch uptodate 0.9.7–2

[19:53:30]

iamlindoro__:

I 8think* that's how they want you to change your mysql password stuff

[19:53:49]

netgear:

database is one you mentioned above?

[19:53:55]

iamlindoro__:

mythconverg

[19:53:59]

iamlindoro__:

is the name of the db

[19:54:01]

siXy:

XSSammy: ok. can you try playing the dvd with vlc or xine and see if that works?

[19:54:08]

XSSammy:

it works

[19:54:11]

netgear:

user can i keep to user?

[19:54:12]

XSSammy:

i was using xine before

[19:54:15]

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[19:54:26]

XSSammy:

but wanted to use the internal player

[19:54:29]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, netgear, user should be fine, just make careful note of what you call the user and the password

[19:54:39]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, Because we're going to try accessing the database after this again

[19:55:21]

netgear:

ok, mysql is to my knowledge on localhost or do i need to change that to pc name?

[19:55:35]

iamlindoro__:

no, localhost should be fine... this is a combined frontend/backend, right?

[19:55:50]

netgear:

yes i think so, i use only one computer

[19:55:56]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, yes, that's correct

[19:56:03]

netgear:

ok that is done

[19:56:13]

netgear:

now i must try that other line again to connect?

[19:56:22]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, ok, let's try again – mysql -u (new user) -p mythconverg

[19:57:25]

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[19:57:32]

netgear:

ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'user'@'localhost' (using password: YES)

[19:57:53]

netgear:

and i know i used right password, i tried it many times

[19:57:59]

iamlindoro__:

hmmm, wonder if user is some osrt of protected username with mysql

[19:58:02]

siXy:

XSSammy: in that case, i reccomend starting mythfronted in verbose mode, and pasting the output (see mythfrontend -help fore more info on starting in verbose mode)

[19:58:08]

iamlindoro__:

This is exactly why I think it's a bad choice of username

[19:58:46]

netgear:

even now i have restart mysql server and its still giving same error

[19:58:52]

XSSammy:

siXy: thanks will do that now

[19:58:54]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, go back and dpkg-reconfigure again, make the user mythtv, and set your password, let me know when you're done

[19:59:02]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, you shouldn't need to restart at all

[19:59:38]

siXy:

--help even

[19:59:40]

netgear:

same thing again with user mythtv

[20:00:23]

netgear:

maybe i must try renaming localhost to my pc name?

[20:00:28]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, no

[20:00:32]

netgear:

ok

[20:00:46]

siXy:

hmm i think i might need to reduce the amount of channels i watch by one. someone in #fedora is trying to edit a video file with sed.

[20:00:47]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, not necessary and would probably break it, actually, depending on what's in my.cnf

[20:01:31]

i3ooi3oo:

why siXy that is just funny

[20:01:35]

iamlindoro__:

i gotta run to lunch... if you can get into the database, you can get it fixed... need to find the root user password for mysql, get in, and change user permissions there

[20:01:39]

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[20:01:44]

iamlindoro__:

then myth will work

[20:01:52]

iamlindoro__:

off to lunch, if you're still having trouble when I'm back i'll help

[20:01:58]

netgear:

ok thanks

[20:02:02]

netgear:

but do come back

[20:02:07]

netgear:

or im semi screwed

[20:02:09]

siXy:

i3ooi3oo: beyond a certain point stupidity just makes my head hurt :(

[20:02:16]

i3ooi3oo:

http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/resett . . . issions.html

[20:02:21]

netgear:

brb

[20:02:30]

i3ooi3oo:

netgear follw my link

[20:02:47]

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[20:02:51]

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[20:03:18]

i3ooi3oo:

yea but that type of stupidity is funny since there is no way it can really effect you.

[20:04:05]

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[20:04:23]

siXy:

maybe im just getting grouchy before my time :)

[20:04:26]

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[20:09:09]

XSSammy:

siXy: i have the verbose output for all

[20:09:26]

XSSammy:

not sure what i am looking for though

[20:09:31]

siXy:

ok, duplicate your error & paste the output

[20:10:54]

XSSammy:

there is a lot of text i dumped it to file from startup to shutdown

[20:11:03]

XSSammy:

of the frontend

[20:11:12]

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[20:12:11]

XSSammy:

where should i paste the output?

[20:12:52]

siXy:

http://rafb.net/paste

[20:14:44]

XSSammy:

http://rafb.net/p/8KafF285.html

[20:16:30]

siXy:

2008-01–03 20:07:12.595 Opening OSS audio device '/dev/dsp'.

[20:16:40]

XSSammy:

sorry i changed it back

[20:16:41]

siXy:

looks like you didnt change your audio device correctly

[20:16:48]

XSSammy:

i tought i would forget otherwise

[20:17:15]

siXy:

you shouldn't be using OSS. use ALSA instead

[20:17:33]

XSSammy:

will do. Could you explain why?

[20:17:36]

XSSammy:

please :)

[20:17:39]

siXy:

OSS is dead

[20:17:48]

XSSammy:

ah

[20:17:55]

siXy:

even ALSA is getting long in the tooth now

[20:17:56]

XSSammy:

that is a good reason

[20:19:06]

siXy:

is this very low-end hardware?

[20:19:17]

XSSammy:

it is old hardware yes

[20:19:39]

XSSammy:

running a amd athlon 2500

[20:19:50]

XSSammy:

on an asus a7v8x motherboard

[20:20:06]

siXy:

what graphics card?

[20:20:22]

XSSammy:

nvidia 6600gt

[20:20:30]

siXy:

what video driver?

[20:20:42]

siXy:

as it looks like you have performance issues

[20:21:15]

XSSammy:

nvidia i think

[20:21:17]

XSSammy:

:(

[20:22:02]

XSSammy:

what makes you say that

[20:22:32]

siXy:

what does glxinfo say?

[20:23:06]

XSSammy:

sorry never heard of glxinfo

[20:23:44]

siXy:

type it :)

[20:23:59]

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[20:24:28]

XSSammy:

i installed the mesa-utils package

[20:24:36]

XSSammy:

then ran glxinfo

[20:24:47]

XSSammy:

but the text it too small to see on my tv lol

[20:24:59]

XSSammy:

and i can't run it remotly

[20:25:01]

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[20:25:05]

XSSammy:

:-S

[20:25:26]

XSSammy:

what is it meant to be telling us?

[20:26:53]

siXy:

if direct rendering is enabled, and which video driver you are using

[20:27:10]

XSSammy:

http://rafb.net/p/9ziuPu20.html

[20:28:04]

XSSammy:

cool

[20:28:13]

XSSammy:

sounds like a very useful command

[20:28:19]

siXy:

ok. in tv playback options, change XV (or standard, whatever its called) to XvMC

[20:28:21]

XSSammy:

will remember it for the future

[20:28:27]

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[20:29:46]

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[20:30:09]

XSSammy:

i am in tv settings

[20:30:17]

XSSammy:

which sub heading would that be under?

[20:30:48]

siXy:

playback

[20:31:25]

XSSammy:

is it a checkbox?

[20:32:12]

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[20:33:56]

siXy:

no, a dropdown thingy

[20:34:44]

XSSammy:

hmm i can only find a 'use xv picture controls' checkbox

[20:35:08]

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[20:38:53]

siXy:

its above that iirc

[20:40:18]

Toxicity999:

Mmm which full blown mythdistro do you guys like best? I rolled my own this round, but rebuilding, and want to play with something new.

[20:40:43]

siXy:

Toxicity999: fedora FE, centos BE works well here

[20:41:03]

XSSammy:

iirc?

[20:41:07]

i3ooi3oo:

i htink he means knoppmyth mythbuntu

[20:41:15]

Toxicity999:

(If I remember correctly)

[20:41:22]

XSSammy:

oh

[20:41:25]

XSSammy:

thanks

[20:41:28]

Toxicity999:

Knoppmyth was a consideration.

[20:41:37]

i3ooi3oo:

mythdora

[20:41:46]

siXy:

oh. ive never touched any of those

[20:41:50]

i3ooi3oo:

was easy to setup

[20:41:55]

Toxicity999:

I'll be rolling SVN packages, so it's almost a question of if I should use a stock distro and just tweak it out my self as I've done many times.

[20:41:56]

i3ooi3oo:

is fc 6y

[20:42:12]

siXy:

um?

[20:42:20]

i3ooi3oo:

i would start on you own if you already know how

[20:42:36]

siXy:

yeah if you know how, leave the prebuilt ones alone

[20:42:42]

Toxicity999:

Right, I mainly wanted to test out how the other distro's groups approached integration.

[20:42:51]

siXy:

<i3ooi3oo> is fc 6y << huh?

[20:42:55]

i3ooi3oo:

they are for those that can't compile

[20:43:10]

i3ooi3oo:

mythdora is Fedora core 6 based

[20:43:18]

Toxicity999:

right now I launch X via startx in rc.local, and path the startx sequence to my normal myth routine =P

[20:43:29]

siXy:

ah :)

[20:43:33]

i3ooi3oo:

siXy: major typo .. i hate latop keyboards some times

[20:43:41]

siXy:

ditto!

[20:43:42]

Toxicity999:

I'll probably start with FC8, since I already have a good pulse server going.

[20:43:55]

Toxicity999:

and it might be a general server soon too.

[20:44:18]

Toxicity999:

I'm a debian root-user soooo I might be a bit out of home at first.

[20:44:35]

Toxicity999:

I'll easily adjust though, I haven't used Fedora style distros in ages.

[20:44:35]

i3ooi3oo:

fc is nice

[20:44:39]

Toxicity999:

it is.

[20:44:52]

siXy:

Toxicity999: i would use centos for the backend if i were you, as the support cycle is (much) longer

[20:45:04]

i3ooi3oo:

i couldn 't get it to install with my video card though

[20:45:12]

Toxicity999:

meh support cycle means nothing to me, I usually get about a week in and have to roll my own packages for everything =P

[20:45:17]

xris:

of course, that would require a LOT of hand-compiling because there aren't any mythtv centos packages

[20:45:23]

i3ooi3oo:

i had to install and old pci card to get though anaconda

[20:45:30]

siXy:

and whilst reinstalling the FE is a few hours work at most, reinstalling the BE is more time consuming

[20:45:58]

Toxicity999:

Right now I have the backend as my desktop, and a crappy P3 frontend with an MX420 nvidia card, but my now desktop will become the frontend/backend.

[20:46:13]

siXy:

xris: i use svn-fixes anyway, but i would imagine the atrpms packages can be shoehorned onto centos also

[20:46:17]

Toxicity999:

which is an Athlon 3700+, video card stays in the desktop for now though

[20:46:27]

Toxicity999:

so I'll have a nice setup, ehhhhh graphics card.

[20:46:40]

Toxicity999:

should do well, I'll proc load everything instead of XvMC

[20:46:51]

xris:

siXy: need a lot of dependencies besides mythtv. and centos version numbers are a bit behind fedora

[20:46:58]

siXy:

xris: actually looking thats wrong. there are el5/centos packages for myth

[20:47:07]

xris:

really? from atrpms?

[20:47:07]

siXy:

http://atrpms.net/dist/el5/mythtv/

[20:47:15]

xris:

interesting

[20:47:19]

xris:

then again, I don't use atrpms for anything

[20:47:20]

Toxicity999:

I was thinking of going QT-Embedded... but it looks like a ton of trouble.

[20:47:41]

Toxicity999:

anyone know much about it? does it cut down on a ton of overhead of X or something?

[20:47:43]

XSSammy:

siXy: found the it. VIA XvMC or Standard XvMC?

[20:47:45]

siXy:

nice of axel to make them, however

[20:47:51]

siXy:

standard XvMC

[20:48:06]

xris:

siXy: yeah

[20:48:31]

XSSammy:

nope, same thing

[20:49:17]

siXy:

XSSammy: ok, with audio set to ALSA:default and video output set to XvMC can you re-paste the frontend output?

[20:49:30]

siXy:

also open a terminal from another computer and watch cpu usage

[20:49:42]

siXy:

(just run top)

[20:51:05]

XSSammy:

20% used by mythfrontend

[20:51:21]

siXy:

whilst trying to watch a dvd?

[20:52:14]

XSSammy:

yer

[20:52:23]

XSSammy:

http://rafb.net/p/ehT6K466.html

[20:54:07]

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[20:54:51]

netgear:

how can i get the pid of a program?

[20:55:00]

XSSammy:

ps -ef

[20:55:18]

XSSammy:

ps -ef | grep <name of program>

[20:55:20]

siXy:

netgear: pgrep <program name>

[20:55:28]

XSSammy:

or that

[20:55:29]

netgear:

thanks

[20:55:30]

XSSammy:

:s

[20:55:40]

siXy:

pgrep isn't portable outside of GNU systems, however

[20:56:10]

siXy:

so don't use it in programs, although its fine in the terminal

[20:56:55]

siXy:

XSSammy: looks like you have issues with your audio device. what audio hardware are you using?

[20:57:06]

XSSammy:

onbard ac97

[20:57:13]

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[20:58:01]

XSSammy:

00:11.5 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 50)

[20:59:52]

siXy:

XSSammy: in that case I don't know. there seems to be a similar issue with the internal player on more than one persons's system (although not normally as widespread as this – its normally just divx5 videos)

[21:00:25]

siXy:

you could either try svn-fixes, or just put up with vlc/xine

[21:00:49]

XSSammy:

ah

[21:01:02]

XSSammy:

well that explains why i couldn't fix it myself!

[21:01:25]

XSSammy:

thanks for your help siXy

[21:01:57]

siXy:

XSSammy: no probs – stick around – someone else may have a bright idea

[21:02:29]

XSSammy:

will do. Where would i look for svn fixes?

[21:02:41]

siXy:

http://mythtv.org

[21:05:47]

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[21:07:44]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, Back from lunch, any progress?

[21:08:07]

siXy:

iamlindoro: someone gave him a link i think

[21:08:12]

netgear:

well i have tried resetting root password now for your whole lunch

[21:08:17]

iamlindoro__:

haha

[21:08:24]

iamlindoro__:

no luck so far, huh?

[21:08:26]

siXy:

that rhymes :)

[21:08:37]

netgear:

not really

[21:09:02]

netgear:

maybe my brain is locking up

[21:09:10]

iamlindoro__:

okay netgear, do a /etc/init.d/mysql stop

[21:09:39]

netgear:

ok

[21:09:47]

netgear:

done

[21:10:21]

iamlindoro__:

now try a sudo mysqld --skip-grant-tables

[21:10:58]

netgear:

ok now i see something new

[21:11:07]

iamlindoro__:

paste it at pastebin.ca

[21:11:13]

iamlindoro__:

and then post the link here

[21:12:04]

netgear:

one sec page is loading

[21:12:42]

siXy:

pastebin.{ca,com} is slooow and full of ads. try rafb.net instead

[21:13:03]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, also now try a – mysql -u root mysql

[21:13:06]

netgear:

thanks for help so far, i have not had much luck with linux users group in my country, they are only a few too

[21:13:08]

iamlindoro__:

and tell me if you get a mysql prompt

[21:13:14]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, what country?

[21:13:19]

netgear:

namibia

[21:13:26]

netgear:

i think they are only 30 people

[21:13:29]

iamlindoro__:

Interesting, well, glad to help

[21:13:46]

Toxicity999:

I need ideas for new anime, I know someone has some ideas, don't be embarrassed =P

[21:14:11]

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[21:14:17]

iamlindoro__:

How about that one where they all have huge eyes and when danger comes a-knockin, they get into robotic suits and fight evil

[21:14:22]

iamlindoro__:

Oh wait, that's all Anime.

[21:14:37]

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[21:14:40]

Toxicity999:

Or... not?

[21:14:55]

justinh:

rofl @ the log

[21:15:18]

justinh:

iamlindoro: you're not wrong :P

[21:15:18]

iamlindoro__:

Or maybe that one where they have huge eyes and the men look like particularly effeminate little girls

[21:15:20]

Toxicity999:

How about when you have seemingly ordinary people and something unexpected happens. oh wait that's all american TV ever ><

[21:15:21]

netgear:

http://rafb.net/p/TkRlgM65.htm

[21:15:49]

Toxicity999:

Sweet... error...

[21:16:00]

justinh:

iamlindoro: and the more effeminate little girls are.. just that. little schoolgirls (barf)

[21:16:09]

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[21:16:25]

iamlindoro__:

justinh: Oh right, I forgot the fascination with sailor suits on little girls and tentacle porn

[21:16:45]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, we'll try something different

[21:16:54]

netgear:

ok, im ready

[21:16:55]

siXy:

Toxicity999: I can think of several valid sources of inspriation

[21:17:04]

iamlindoro__:

try sudo dpkg-reconfigure mysql-server-5.0

[21:17:06]

siXy:

catting /dev/urandom would be a good start

[21:17:10]

Toxicity999:

haha

[21:17:16]

Toxicity999:

to /dev/dsp

[21:17:17]

iamlindoro__:

and see if it gives you an option to change the root password

[21:17:37]

justinh:

how about... young guy sits in front of a computer trying to make his open source PVR work. spends weeks/months/years battling with the forces of evil in IRC

[21:17:47]

netgear:

ah now i can make a new password

[21:17:54]

siXy:

:(){ :|:& }; : #this is *full* of insipration ## note to everyone else – really don't do this. really.

[21:18:04]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, ok go through that, then try mysql -u root -p mythconverg

[21:18:04]

Toxicity999:

justinh You just described me life O_O

[21:18:06]

Toxicity999:

*my

[21:18:11]

iamlindoro__:

and put in your new root password and let's see how it works

[21:18:28]

netgear:

ok i have done that

[21:18:28]

Toxicity999:

HaXx0r ZOMG, Lol.

[21:18:35]

siXy:

unless of course you want to test that ulimit actually works

[21:18:37]

Toxicity999:

Had to, =]

[21:18:37]

justinh:

the forces of evil shall remain nameless

[21:18:45]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, you get a mysql prompt?

[21:18:53]

Toxicity999:

Is it the French? Canadians?!

[21:18:59]

Toxicity999:

French Canadians?

[21:19:16]

netgear:

when i run this mysql -u root mysql?

[21:19:19]

directhex:

there's no canada like french canada

[21:19:26]

Toxicity999:

I'm half Canadian, and spend a lot of time there... we try to avoid French Canada D=

[21:19:29]

iamlindoro__:

no, do what I just said

[21:19:33]

iamlindoro__:

mysql -u root -p mythconverg

[21:19:39]

directhex:

it's the best canada in the land

[21:19:48]

directhex:

the other canada is hardly canada

[21:19:58]

directhex:

if you lived here for a day you'd understand

[21:20:54]

netgear:

still a password problem, do i need to run with sudo? or as normal user

[21:21:34]

iamlindoro__:

nope... any user should be fine... hmmm, do we have mysql running? check /etc/init.d/mysql restart

[21:21:40]

iamlindoro__:

er, sudo that

[21:22:23]

iamlindoro__:

and then, since I guess I'm not 100% sure you *have* a mythconverg, let's try mysql -u root -p mysql

[21:23:06]

netgear:

for both attempts i get access denied

[21:23:15]

iamlindoro__:

no es bueno

[21:23:34]

netgear:

you speak spanish?

[21:23:47]

iamlindoro__:

Only as much as any Californian

[21:23:58]

netgear:

oh ok

[21:24:00]

iamlindoro__:

And I only know cop spanish

[21:24:07]

** siXy huggles ubuntu's mysql obfusticiation **

[21:24:08]

iamlindoro__:

Donde estan las drogas?

[21:24:16]

iamlindoro__:

Manos su la cabesa

[21:24:23]

iamlindoro__:

apaga el motor, por favor

[21:24:32]

netgear:

i only know buenos noches

[21:24:35]

iamlindoro__:

Es tu cocaina?

[21:24:39]

netgear:

si

[21:24:47]

Toxicity999:

directhex you'd understand......... you'd understand.

[21:25:01]

netgear:

how did you learn cop spanish?

[21:25:02]

siXy:

netgear: then you should be able to guess buenos dias, at least

[21:25:03]

** Toxicity999 whispers: "you'd understand." **

[21:25:14]

netgear:

nah i only understood cocaine

[21:25:17]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, by being a cop

[21:25:21]

netgear:

cool

[21:25:25]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, I'm running out of ideas, I'm no mysql expert

[21:25:35]

iamlindoro__:

hang on, we'll try a few more

[21:25:37]

netgear:

i only know its a database

[21:26:10]

netgear:

you been filmed by crime and investigation network? you have that channel overseas or not?

[21:26:28]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, No, not familiar with the channel, never been filmed

[21:26:40]

netgear:

ok

[21:26:40]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, let's try this

[21:26:48]

iamlindoro__:

sudo /etc/init.d/mysql stop

[21:27:02]

netgear:

k

[21:27:24]

iamlindoro__:

and let's see if this works... mysqladmin -u root password 'newpassword'

[21:27:32]

iamlindoro__:

with the ', but change the newpassword word

[21:27:50]

netgear:

do i need to use the ' '

[21:27:50]

iamlindoro__:

might need to sudo that, I don't know, and not going to change my database to find out :)

[21:27:55]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, yes

[21:28:23]

iamlindoro__:

Tell me if that errors of succeeds

[21:28:32]

netgear:

error

[21:28:39]

iamlindoro__:

What's the error?

[21:29:12]

netgear:

mysqladmin: connect to server at 'localhost' failed

[21:29:33]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, nano /etc/mysql/my.cnf

[21:29:46]

iamlindoro__:

and scroll down to the line that starts bind-address

[21:29:48]

netgear:

can i use gedit i cannot use nano

[21:29:52]

netgear:

ok

[21:29:54]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, sure

[21:30:00]

jhulst:

Is it possible that mysql isn't even coming up at all?

[21:30:34]

iamlindoro__:

jhulst, it appears to be up (although I actually had him stop it a second ago)

[21:30:42]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, what's the bind-address?

[21:30:45]

netgear:

ok i am there

[21:30:52]

jhulst:

ps -ef | grep mysql?

[21:30:55]

netgear:

127.0.0.1

[21:31:02]

iamlindoro__:

ok netgear, quit gedit

[21:31:19]

iamlindoro__:

cat /etc/hosts and make sure 127.0.0.1 is on the same line as localhost

[21:31:35]

netgear:

user 16758 16109 0 23:28 pts/3 00:00:00 grep mysql

[21:31:43]

iamlindoro__:

jhulst, it's stopped right now

[21:32:14]

netgear:

yes

[21:32:18]

netgear:

it is there

[21:32:34]

iamlindoro__:

okay netgear, let's try this

[21:32:51]

netgear:

although localhost is 127.0.0.1 and Sniffer is 127.0.1.1 which is pc name

[21:32:57]

iamlindoro__:

that's fine, normal

[21:33:00]

netgear:

ok

[21:33:05]

iamlindoro__:

give me one second, want to give you the exact line

[21:33:43]

iamlindoro__:

gedit /etc/init.d/mysql

[21:34:00]

iamlindoro__:

find the line that says /usr/bin/mysqld_safe > /dev/null 2>&1 &

[21:34:23]

XSSammy:

siXy: did we conclude that the problem with sound was hardware based? would it be worth trying another sound card?

[21:34:42]

netgear:

ok

[21:34:46]

netgear:

i am there

[21:34:47]

siXy:

XSSammy: i think was is a bit strong. *might* be hardware based

[21:34:54]

iamlindoro__:

and change it to /usr/bin/mysqld_safe --skip-grant-tables > /dev/null 2>&1 &

[21:35:19]

iamlindoro__:

then save and exit

[21:35:52]

netgear:

ok done

[21:36:03]

iamlindoro__:

now sudo /etc/init.d/mysql start

[21:36:14]

iamlindoro__:

and ps aux |grep mysql

[21:37:05]

netgear:

ok must i paste that somewhere?

[21:37:14]

XSSammy:

cheers might try another sound card

[21:37:19]

iamlindoro__:

If it's just one line, you can paste it here, I just want to see the command line options

[21:37:21]

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[21:37:33]

iamlindoro__:

otherwise, the same paste site will be fine

[21:37:45]

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[21:38:04]

netgear:

iamlindoro__: http://rafb.net/p/rfJsOp55.html

[21:38:20]

iamlindoro__:

ok, probably ok...

[21:38:42]

iamlindoro__:

let's try mysql -u root mysql

[21:39:02]

netgear:

yes i get a prompt !!!!

[21:39:05]

iamlindoro__:

ok, good

[21:39:11]

netgear:

finally a break in the case

[21:39:12]

iamlindoro__:

now enter these lines

[21:39:24]

iamlindoro__:

UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD(’newrootpassword’) WHERE User=’root’;

[21:39:32]

iamlindoro__:

and insert your password for newrootpassword

[21:39:56]

iamlindoro__:

paste the one output line about how many cells/rows affected

[21:40:11]

iamlindoro__:

you can paste that here

[21:40:34]

netgear:

there is error in syntax

[21:40:41]

netgear:

must i use the ' ' also here?

[21:40:42]

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[21:41:03]

iamlindoro__:

yes

[21:41:31]

iamlindoro__:

on both newrootpassword and root

[21:41:34]

netgear:

UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD(’xxx’) WHERE User=’root’; like this for example?

[21:41:35]

iamlindoro__:

brb

[21:41:41]

iamlindoro__:

yes

[21:42:00]

netgear:

ok i still got syntax error

[21:42:06]

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[21:42:34]

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[21:42:43]

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[21:43:27]

iamlindoro__:

Should tell you where the error is

[21:43:29]

iamlindoro__:

or around

[21:43:51]

netgear:

around the password

[21:44:10]

netgear:

maybe there must be space between PASSWORD and ( ?

[21:44:18]

iamlindoro__:

no, but try " instead of '

[21:44:22]

iamlindoro__:

around the password

[21:44:56]

netgear:

Query OK, 3 rows affected (0.00 sec)

[21:44:56]

netgear:

Rows matched: 3 Changed: 3 Warnings: 0

[21:45:03]

iamlindoro__:

good

[21:45:05]

netgear:

both password and root needed ""

[21:45:07]

iamlindoro__:

now try

[21:45:24]

iamlindoro__:

FLUSH PRIVILEGES;

[21:45:44]

siXy:

i can *never* spell that

[21:45:47]

netgear:

0 rows affected

[21:45:54]

siXy:

takes me 5 or 6 attempts, usually

[21:46:03]

iamlindoro__:

and btw, open a second terminal and edit /home/user/.mythtv/mysql.txt

[21:46:17]

iamlindoro__:

we're going to edit your mythtv password while we're here

[21:46:31]

_flindet (_flindet!n=flindet@c-67-174-53-177.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has quit (Connection timed out)

[21:46:41]

netgear:

ok im ready

[21:47:20]

iamlindoro__:

UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD("newmythtvuserpassword") WHERE User='mythtv';

[21:47:37]

iamlindoro__:

That may or may not work depending on whether mythtv user ever got created

[21:48:04]

netgear:

well there is a home for him

[21:48:18]

iamlindoro__:

doesn't matter, linux users and mysql users are completely different

[21:48:27]

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[21:48:27]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v jams

[21:48:33]

netgear:

0 lines affected

[21:48:47]

iamlindoro__:

OK, sounds like probably no mythtv user

[21:49:05]

netgear:

user user was added to mythgroup during my day long trial and error thing

[21:49:12]

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[21:49:18]

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[21:49:18]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v jams

[21:49:28]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, that's NOT in mysql, it uses its own users

[21:49:42]

iamlindoro__:

ok, still have the mysql prompt open?

[21:49:46]

netgear:

yes

[21:50:41]

netgear:

there is no .mythtv in /home/mythtv

[21:50:47]

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[21:50:51]

netgear:

so i figure it was never there

[21:51:18]

iamlindoro__:

INSERT INTO user (host, user, password, select_priv, insert_priv, update_priv) VALUES ('localhost', 'mythtv', PASSWORD("mythtvpassword"), 'Y', 'Y', 'Y');

[21:51:29]

iamlindoro__:

should only need to change mythtvpassword in that line

[21:51:35]

iamlindoro__:

and hopefully I spelled everything right...

[21:51:48]

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[21:51:50]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, listen to me again... LINUX USERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MYSQL USERS

[21:52:03]

netgear:

Query OK, 1 row affected, 3 warnings (0.00 sec)

[21:52:27]

XSSammy:

hmmm

[21:52:28]

netgear:

ok i understand

[21:52:36]

siXy:

iamlindoro: hehe :)

[21:52:47]

iamlindoro__:

concerned about those warnings, though... shouldn't be any

[21:53:14]

XSSammy:

siXy: wasnt a soundcard problem :S

[21:53:22]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, use this line – SHOW WARNINGS\G

[21:53:27]

iamlindoro__:

and pastebin the output

[21:54:01]

jarle_:

I find myself having several channels with the same channum, and it seems like mythtv does not like that very much?

[21:54:12]

siXy:

XSSammy: what was it?

[21:54:16]

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[21:54:20]

netgear:

http://rafb.net/p/jtW2te77.html

[21:54:38]

iamlindoro__:

ok, I *think* that should be ok

[21:54:43]

iamlindoro__:

FLUSH PRIVILEGES;

[21:54:47]

iamlindoro__:

do that

[21:54:55]

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[21:55:06]

netgear:

ok 0 lines affected

[21:55:09]

iamlindoro__:

then type quit

[21:55:19]

netgear:

ok done

[21:55:21]

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[21:55:27]

iamlindoro__:

and go back and edit /etc/init.d/mysql and remove --skip-grant-tables from that one line

[21:55:29]

XSSammy:

siXy: no idea but a change of sound card didn't fix it! Think i might look for some more up2date ac3 sound codecs or somethings

[21:55:36]

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[21:55:39]

psm321:

hi

[21:56:15]

iamlindoro__:

then save and exit

[21:56:24]

netgear:

done

[21:56:33]

iamlindoro__:

sudo /etc/init.d/mysql restart

[21:56:42]

iamlindoro__:

then ps aux |grep mysql and make sure it is running

[21:57:04]

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[21:57:08]

siXy:

XSSammy: well if it works in vlc/xine and its not a lack of buffer on the soundcard, its probably a problem with the internal player itself, in which case i suspect you are stuck

[21:57:32]

XSSammy:

hmmmmm

[21:57:46]

XSSammy:

i might have to dig out the source code

[21:58:14]

netgear:

http://rafb.net/p/DLP7TT27.html

[21:58:18]

psm321:

with storage groups, is myth smart enough to figure out when 2 directories are on a different physical drive? e.g. is i have hda1, hda2, hdb1, and hdb2, is myth going to put 2 simultaneous recordings on hda1 and hdb1, or is it just as likely to pick hda1 and hda2?

[21:58:27]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, looks good

[21:58:32]

skyphyr:

hi all – anyone happen to know whether trees are thick enough to block satellites from receiving?

[21:58:34]

iamlindoro__:

now try – mysql -u mythtv -p

[21:58:50]

iamlindoro__:

put in your new mythtv password, and see if you get a prompt

[21:58:59]

siXy:

skyphyr: depends on the tree

[21:59:02]

iamlindoro__:

skyphyr, yes, most definitely

[21:59:08]

netgear:

yes i get a prompt again

[21:59:13]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, GREAT!

[21:59:20]

netgear:

yes thanks

[21:59:20]

iamlindoro__:

now try this

[21:59:26]

iamlindoro__:

USE mythconverg;

[21:59:30]

iamlindoro__:

and see if you get any errors

[21:59:36]

siXy:

a 2" high baby little thing, probably not. a 200 foot redwood, yes

[21:59:47]

netgear:

unknown database

[21:59:53]

iamlindoro__:

sigh, I kinda figured

[21:59:56]

iamlindoro__:

ok, quit

[22:00:09]

** siXy hands a coffee to iamlindoro **

[22:00:25]

netgear:

so what is actually my problem? i dont even know

[22:00:25]

iamlindoro__:

Gonna need something harder than that ;)

[22:00:32]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, I'll explain it all in two minute

[22:00:33]

iamlindoro__:

s

[22:00:33]

siXy:

heh :D

[22:00:39]

KjetilK:

I'm trying to get the stuff in http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Volume_Knob_on_Antec_Fusion working, but I can't find the idVendor for my PVR-150

[22:00:39]

iamlindoro__:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/mythtv/database/mc.sql

[22:00:59]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, go to that address and click the link at the bottom that says Download in original format

[22:01:10]

KjetilK:

I've tried to do udevinfo -a -p /sys/class/lirc/lirc1/ but that doesn't give me anything reasonable

[22:01:34]

netgear:

iamlindoro__: ok, where did you learn all this?

[22:01:47]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, By breaking a lot of stuff many many times ;)

[22:02:01]

KjetilK:

anyone know how to find the idVendor or something I can use for a udev rule?

[22:02:02]

netgear:

KjetilK: ask mcisely in #pvrusb2

[22:02:09]

netgear:

he is driver writer

[22:02:14]

netgear:

i figure he will know

[22:02:24]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, onec you have that file, put it somewhere you can get to it from the terminal, like your home directory

[22:02:29]

KjetilK:

netgear: ah, ok, but it isn't a usb device in my case...

[22:02:33]

netgear:

ok

[22:02:38]

skyphyr:

thanks siXy and iamlindoro

[22:02:41]

netgear:

i know

[22:02:42]

iamlindoro__:

skyphyr, any time

[22:03:00]

netgear:

iamlindoro__: i have the file ready

[22:03:00]

skyphyr:

this is going to be most unfun – there is a tree the council have planeted that blocks the entire front side of my house

[22:03:00]

XSSammy:

anyone know if there is a verbose method to just capture audio related debug?

[22:03:03]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, let me knwo when you are ready

[22:03:14]

netgear:

does it need to be in a permanent location or only now?

[22:03:15]

iamlindoro__:

and in a terminal get to the directory mcl.sql is in

[22:03:23]

iamlindoro__:

we only need it for about one command line

[22:03:28]

iamlindoro__:

then you can delete it

[22:03:29]

KjetilK:

I'm using the lirc_pvr150

[22:04:03]

netgear:

ok im ready

[22:04:05]

skyphyr:

and I can't put dishes above 45cm on the chimney stack... :D anyone happen to know where I can find info about this? google has provided some stuff, but I've not hit the magic words for all info

[22:04:15]

iamlindoro__:

ok, do – mysql -u root -p < mc.sql

[22:04:21]

iamlindoro__:

and put in your mysql root password when asked

[22:04:30]

iamlindoro__:

should just put you back at a command prompt

[22:04:39]

netgear:

yes

[22:04:47]

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[22:04:47]

iamlindoro__:

ok, mysql -u mythtv -p

[22:04:57]

iamlindoro__:

login, then USE mythconverg;

[22:05:04]

iamlindoro__:

and it should tell you OK

[22:05:09]

psm321:

skyphyr: in the US, a neighborhood org can't prevent you from installing a dish or limit how you install it if that limitation would make it not work

[22:05:31]

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[22:05:33]

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[22:05:38]

netgear:

ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: YES)

[22:06:00]

iamlindoro__:

when does it say that, when logging in, or when trying to use mythconverg?

[22:06:09]

iamlindoro__:

oh DUH

[22:06:18]

psm321:

i think the mc.sql sets the password to mythtv

[22:06:20]

psm321:

iirc

[22:06:22]

iamlindoro__:

yep

[22:06:31]

skyphyr:

thanks psm321 – will see if there's anything similar over here

[22:06:36]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, same command line as above, but use mythtv as your password

[22:06:45]

iamlindoro__:

mysql -u mythtv -p

[22:06:48]

iamlindoro__:

password mythtv

[22:06:53]

iamlindoro__:

USE mythconverg;

[22:07:11]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, exactly right, just got lost in the tons of commands I've thrown at him :)

[22:07:12]

netgear:

database changed

[22:07:17]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, great

[22:07:18]

iamlindoro__:

quit

[22:07:19]

netgear:

then im back to the prompt

[22:07:29]

iamlindoro__:

gedit /home/user/.mythtv/mysql.txt

[22:07:36]

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[22:07:39]

iamlindoro__:

change the password to mythtv

[22:07:43]

iamlindoro__:

save and exit

[22:07:49]

iamlindoro__:

make sure you're user "user"

[22:07:52]

iamlindoro__:

mythtv-setup

[22:08:00]

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[22:08:18]

netgear:

ok give me a second im getting slower each minute

[22:09:39]

netgear:

what command is to be used to change that password dont want to mess things up now

[22:10:03]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, huh? just edit mysql.txt and put mythtv in on the line for DBpassword

[22:10:03]

netgear:

ah

[22:10:05]

netgear:

i see now

[22:10:17]

netgear:

give me a sec

[22:11:39]

netgear:

must i close mythtv backend?

[22:12:00]

netgear:

its needed to run mythtv-setup

[22:12:07]

iamlindoro__:

shouldn't be started at all without db access

[22:12:20]

iamlindoro__:

but just to be save you can sudo /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend stop

[22:12:30]

iamlindoro__:

er safe

[22:13:03]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, and you can actually run mythtv-setup fine with backend running, just won't necessarily all work when you're done if you don't stop it :)

[22:13:21]

netgear:

ok im in setup screen now

[22:13:27]

iamlindoro__:

There you go

[22:13:38]

netgear:

anything specific i should know or do?

[22:14:11]

netgear:

database is mythconverg, user mythtv or user?

[22:14:38]

netgear:

sorry for all the questions im just way behind on sleep

[22:14:56]

iamlindoro__:

mythconverge, mythtv is the user, mythtv is the password

[22:15:02]

iamlindoro__:

er mythconverg, no e

[22:15:30]

netgear:

ah finally something more is happening

[22:15:32]

iamlindoro__:

master backend ip is localhost or 127.0.0.1

[22:15:51]

iamlindoro__:

anyway, everything else you should be able to figure out from any howto

[22:15:53]

netgear:

i really appreciate the help

[22:15:59]

netgear:

ok thanks

[22:15:59]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, no problem, glad it's fixed

[22:16:09]

netgear:

do you log chats perhaps?

[22:16:21]

netgear:

i need a log of this incase i get a problem again

[22:16:21]

iamlindoro__:

Everything here is logged

[22:16:36]

iamlindoro__:

when you enter the room the chatbot sends you a message with the address

[22:16:45]

XSSammy:

anyone seen this error before? AudioOutput Warning: Mixer attach error -2

[22:16:51]

netgear:

mmm i must have closed it

[22:17:01]

netgear:

ok, thanks again

[22:17:17]

iamlindoro__:

http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/channel/1

[22:17:54]

iamlindoro__:

netgear, no problem

[22:18:38]

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[22:20:00]

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[22:22:44]

psm321:

nobody has any ideas on my storage groups question?

[22:24:07]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, I'll look at the code and see if I can figure it out

[22:24:30]

siXy:

psm321: what was your question?

[22:26:47]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, It *appears* from looking at it that it will use the next-most-free space directory if a second recording occurs

[22:27:27]

iamlindoro__:

so if you start a recording on hda1, and hda2 has the msot free storage after that, that's where the second recording will go

[22:27:36]

psm321:

shoot

[22:28:06]

psm321:

that means for optimal usage i should have 1 partition/drive

[22:28:11]

psm321:

i wanted to make them smaller

[22:28:25]

XSSammy:

siXy: It seems to happen with any recording with an ac3 sound track

[22:28:26]

iamlindoro__:

yup... I only have one storage group, so I had to look to know, don't know from experience

[22:28:54]

psm321:

siXy: was wondering whether myth is smart enough to know when directories are on different physical drives

[22:29:04]

** psm321 ponders adding such functionality **

[22:29:48]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, It'd need to be an option and not the default... from the perspective of not running out of space, as it is currently makes the most sense and more people aren't I/O limited

[22:30:00]

iamlindoro__:

er most people aren't

[22:30:15]

psm321:

hmm

[22:30:22]

iamlindoro__:

Since you are *not* writing much data from a recording, far less than any drive is capable of

[22:30:30]

psm321:

i guess that's a good point

[22:30:32]

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[22:30:34]

** psm321 abandons plans **

[22:30:36]

iamlindoro__:

I can write three recordings at once to my one drive without substantial slowdown

[22:32:18]

psm321:

given that, i wonder why it goes to a remote filesystem after 2 simultaneous recordings

[22:32:24]

psm321:

(says the wiki)

[22:32:54]

psm321:

actually

[22:33:04]

psm321:

the wiki says almost the opposite of what you said

[22:33:21]

psm321:

except unfortunately it says nothing about whether balancing is done across partitions or drives

[22:33:44]

psm321:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Storage_Groups , paragraph starting with "MythTV will balance"

[22:34:07]

clever:

psm321: ive found storage groups go to the one with 5mb free without warnign:P

[22:34:15]

clever:

causing the whole mythbackend to crash

[22:34:36]

psm321:

clever: yeah, i remember that discussion with you :)

[22:34:51]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, I only spoke based on my quick evaluation of the code, I probably was looking at the section governing low disk space

[22:35:00]

clever:

lvm solved it and is still growing in size

[22:35:22]

psm321:

iamlindoro__: ok, thanks for looking, i will look myself tonight too

[22:35:36]

iamlindoro__:

Still, I/O is *not* an issue for most people... Maximum HD recording is going to be 20ish M*bit*... That's far less than any drive can handle easily

[22:35:42]

psm321:

clever: i am very vary of staying w/ lvm given my current experiences

[22:35:57]

iamlindoro__:

You could record multiple HD streams long before you started to bog down I/O, presuming a relatively modern machine

[22:36:15]

clever:

i have lvm ontop of 4 harddrives

[22:36:26]

clever:

and i was recoridng SD while playing the same SD on 6 systems

[22:36:28]

clever:

without trouble

[22:36:34]

psm321:

iamlindoro__: lol, my recordings are like 600kbps

[22:36:47]

iamlindoro__:

psm321, yeah, see? You could do *dozens* of those on one drive

[22:36:59]

clever:

my recordings are set at about 300kbyte/sec and i had 6 of them playing while it recorded

[22:37:20]

psm321:

except hard drive max write rates are based on sequential writes

[22:37:38]

psm321:

with "dozens" of recordings, the heads would be seeking all over the place

[22:37:41]

psm321:

:)

[22:37:53]

iamlindoro__:

True, but at thsoe rates it should still be manageable

[22:37:55]

psm321:

i agree that it's probably not an issue tho

[22:38:13]

clever:

write cache would group the writes into larger seq chunks

[22:38:19]

clever:

saving you from as much seeking

[22:38:30]

psm321:

i am worried about clever's issues with running out of space, cause i'm always running on minimal free space

[22:38:43]

clever:

i just merge every drive with lvm

[22:38:56]

clever:

so that the 2 drives with 500mb free now become 1 filesystem with 1gig free

[22:38:58]

iamlindoro__:

if you're worried about lvm, do RAID 5 or 6

[22:39:01]

psm321:

i mean the issue you had with storage groups

[22:39:17]

psm321:

i'm not about to spend $$ on hw raid at this point

[22:39:28]

clever:

software rair mirrors under lvm

[22:39:36]

iamlindoro__:

pfft, software raid in linux is great

[22:39:49]

psm321:

i though software raid _was_ lvm??

[22:39:50]

clever:

i havent used it but ive read on how to use both lvm and raid

[22:39:54]

iamlindoro__:

nope

[22:39:56]

cafuego:

psm321: nooo

[22:39:59]

iamlindoro__:

completely different

[22:40:04]

clever:

you can use a rair MIRROR as a PV in lvm

[22:40:10]

XSSammy:

siXy: Fixed it by disabling the ac3 to spdif passthrough in general settings

[22:40:16]

** cafuego uses lvm on raid5 **

[22:40:24]

psm321:

dont have enough drives/space to do any mirroring at this point

[22:40:34]

iamlindoro__:

yeah, you can run LVM on top of RAID if you want to

[22:40:43]

clever:

or raid ontop of lvm:P

[22:40:51]

iamlindoro__:

since you don't partition RAIDs, and that'w how most people do the volume management

[22:41:05]

psm321:

what i like about the storage groups thing is that if i have multiple smaller partitions, if one of the filesystems gets horribly corrupt i only lose those files

[22:41:07]

iamlindoro__:

clever, RAID on top of LVM = dangerous

[22:41:09]

cafuego:

psm321: raid give you protection from disk failure, lvm gives you a way of dynamically resizing partitions without having to move them around using fdisk every 2 seconds.

[22:41:15]

clever:

or raid->lvm->raid!

[22:41:31]

clever:

iamlindoro: ive had a worse idea:P

[22:41:34]

psm321:

which is good since i dont have enough space to do any backups of recordings

[22:41:38]

clever:

iamlindoro: PV on a loop device

[22:41:45]

clever:

iamlindoro: which is stored on a LV

[22:41:53]

clever:

iamlindoro: now i might be able to get x inside of x

[22:42:01]

iamlindoro__:

ugh

[22:42:07]

clever:

yeah

[22:42:13]

clever:

that will probly crash the system

[22:42:21]

cafuego:

psm321: You could LVM striping as well as storage groups then. They're kinda like raid0, except you only lose the files on the disk that died, if a disk dies... not everything, like with raid0.

[22:42:22]

iamlindoro__:

I like my poor Myth Box

[22:42:48]

cafuego:

clever: No, that works fine (if slowly :-)

[22:43:02]

clever:

but what if i then pvmove

[22:43:03]

psm321:

cafuego: i'm a bit confused, how would that work?

[22:43:08]

clever:

to put pv1 onto lv1

[22:43:12]

clever:

and lv1 is on pv1

[22:43:22]

clever:

now ive just shoved x into itself

[22:43:24]

psm321:

if i stripe across disks, don't i lose everything if one disk dies?

[22:43:32]

cafuego:

psm321: lvm striping creates a single big volume out of a bunch of lvm partitions on a bunch of disks.

[22:43:36]

clever:

psm321: you would loose the odd chunks

[22:43:48]

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[22:43:49]

clever:

psm321: like my name would become c_e_e_

[22:43:55]

clever:

which becomes useless for most programs

[22:43:59]

cafuego:

psm321: With raid0 you'd lose everything, as I understand it, LVM striping striped files, not parts of files.

[22:44:11]

cafuego:

Note, I may be wrong there.

[22:44:18]

clever:

lvm striped the entire filesystem

[22:44:26]

psm321:

cafuego: i dont see how that could be, because it simply provides a block device to the fs layer afaik

[22:44:40]

cafuego:

let me google

[22:44:50]

psm321:

my impression is that striping files would be something i'd get from something like storage groups

[22:44:56]

psm321:

which is why i want that :)

[22:45:13]

clever:

storage groups cant stripe a file over several things

[22:45:14]

psm321:

note that when i say storage groups i really mean multiple directories in one storage group

[22:45:23]

clever:

but it can put 2 seperate files out to seperate file systems

[22:45:46]

psm321:

clever: sorry, thats what i meant by "striping files", was using cafuego's wording

[22:46:16]

clever:

ext2/3 may stripe a file over several psysical devices by mistake when using lvm

[22:46:27]

clever:

because it will semi randomly fragment the file over the LV

[22:46:34]

clever:

and parts may land on seperate PV's

[22:46:37]

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[22:47:18]

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[22:48:15]

clever:

using the 'filefrag' program you could figure out where the raw file parts are

[22:48:33]

clever:

then using the /etc/lvm/backup/lvname you could work out where they are on the raw pv

[22:48:55]

psm321:

heh

[22:49:30]

clever:

could probly be automated to view how its fragmented over the pv's

[22:49:36]

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[22:49:38]

psm321:

i'm still leaning towards using storage groups, perhaps with some budgeted time for debugging if i run into disk space issues

[22:49:38]

clever:

cant realy do much about it though

[22:49:52]

mzb:

LVM striping is not per-file ... see the stripe-size param

[22:50:04]

cafuego:

psm321: I'd prolly have to concur with you there, i can't actually find any info in google backuing up what i said before

[22:50:11]

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[22:50:22]

mzb:

it's also not as reliable as LVM over raid1 (in my experience)

[22:50:32]

mzb:

s/raid1/raid0

[22:51:01]

psm321:

i dont even know if my lvm is set to do striping or not

[22:51:22]

clever:

i think you set it when making the LV

[22:51:30]

mzb:

-i option, iirc

[22:51:44]

clever:

but pvmove i dont think supports it well

[22:51:53]

clever:

and i pvmove ALOT to defrag the LV's

[22:51:54]

J-e-f-f-A:

I thought LVM was ~= raid 0 — just making a bunch of disks (2 or more) look like 1 bigger disk... no redundancy at all...

[22:52:13]

cafuego:

J-e-f-f-A: kinda, but not quite.

[22:52:25]

fryfrog:

J-e-f-f-A: you can shuffle stuff around

[22:52:33]

clever:

lvm groups multiple disks into a massive chunk then can break them back up into smaller chunks

[22:52:33]

clever:

and its more flexible then partitioning

[22:52:36]

fryfrog:

LVM is kind of like... seperate your "disks" from your "partitions"

[22:52:44]

clever:

because you dont need space after what you want to grow

[22:53:07]

mzb:

you can also use different stripes+stripe size for each partition

[22:53:19]

fryfrog:

so if you have 3 disks and a 50gb file system, you can kind of dynamically move them between disks how ever you like

[22:53:43]

fryfrog:

and if a disk is failing (ie, you catch it *beofre* it fails) you can simply tell LVM to move partitions off that disk

[22:53:48]

fryfrog:

or something

[22:53:49]

** cafuego notes he can apparently make an 8EB lv on his box **

[22:53:58]

clever:

my mainlv is about 300gig

[22:53:58]

cafuego:

provided someone can buy me some disk? ;-)

[22:54:00]

fryfrog:

personally, I perfer just using one big raid5 array / partition / mount

[22:54:07]

clever:

and its currently broken into 14 peices

[22:54:14]

fryfrog:

exabytes?

[22:54:15]

clever:

spread over 5 PV's

[22:54:18]

cafuego:

aye

[22:54:30]

clever:

which are on 4 psysical drives

[22:54:33]

J-e-f-f-A:

fryfrog: It would be great if there was a utility to monitor the disk's "smart" monitoring and do that automagically...

[22:54:38]

fryfrog:

See, mine is much simpler...

[22:54:48]

hashbang:

J-e-f-f-A: smartd

[22:54:50]

fryfrog:

I have one raid5 array (8x 320G) and a mount point of /data :)

[22:54:53]

fryfrog:

smartmontools

[22:54:57]

cafuego:

fryfrog: I use lvm on raid5 for the Xen servers, so each vm has its own slice.

[22:55:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

hashbang: yeah, that's what I meant... ;-)

[22:55:04]

clever:

fryfrog: smartd could fire off a warning and then you manualy shift over early

[22:55:13]

jams:

fryfrog- i'm with with you either one big raid 5 or raid 10. or just juse storage groups. LVM is just asking for trouble.

[22:55:13]

mzb:

J-e-f-f-A: there is ^^^ read the manpage ... you can get it to run all sorts of commands + tests

[22:55:16]

fryfrog:

the only problem is... google says smart data isn't a very good indicator of failure

[22:55:25]

hashbang:

clever: or you could write something to parse the warning emails smartd sends, if you feel brave. :-)

[22:55:27]

cafuego:

fryfrog: Performs much better than a bunch of disk files, afaik.

[22:55:42]

clever:

hashbang: pvmove can make parts of my system hardlock:P

[22:55:56]

clever:

hashbang: if i access a LV while pvmoving parts of it both proc's hardlock

[22:56:06]

clever:

and any other proc accessing the lv hardlocks

[22:56:11]

** J-e-f-f-A drools... ;-) **

[22:56:28]

mzb:

fryfrog: good enough for seagate to take a warranty return :))

[22:56:34]

clever:

so i have to umount everything before i can pvmove

[22:56:55]

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[22:56:58]

fryfrog:

mzb: sure, when smart *catches* it :(

[22:56:59]

** J-e-f-f-A wishes he payed attention to smartd messages from a 500gb drive 6 months ago... he wouldn't have lost his lvm if he had... **

[22:57:03]

psm321:

smart isn't perfect... i ran into bad sectors on a drive after smart reported everything to be fine

[22:57:12]

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[22:57:16]

psm321:

the worst part was even after the failure smart _still_ reported everything fine

[22:57:24]

fryfrog:

psm321: lame :(

[22:57:32]

clever:

psm321: one of my drives sounds like it has bad sectors

[22:57:34]

clever:

psm321: but smart seems to claim its fine

[22:57:40]

fryfrog:

the linux kernel raid driver seems to be pretty good at catching a failing drive.

[22:57:40]

mzb:

just make sure you do long tests

[22:57:48]

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[22:57:54]

fryfrog:

it booted a drive out of my array a few times before i rma'd it

[22:57:56]

hashbang:

fryfrog: it's better now

[22:58:04]

clever:

half my nfsroot system hardlocked when i was doing a badblocks scan on the drive

[22:58:11]

hashbang:

fryfrog: Linux md used to fail drives out simply for read errors

[22:58:27]

fryfrog:

bastards!

[22:58:34]

mzb:

keep in mind you can get ~6mths (depending on how fast the drive is failing) by zeroing the bad block

[22:58:45]

psm321:

why would you get read errors if a drive wasn't failing?

[22:58:54]

hashbang:

psm321: soft errors

[22:58:58]

clever:

i had an odd error with my drive recently

[22:59:01]

cafuego:

psm321: software, controller, cable

[22:59:03]

clever:

i shoved it into a newer laptop

[22:59:11]

cafuego:

the odd cosmic ray even :-)

[22:59:14]

clever:

and the journal kept failing to write

[22:59:17]

hashbang:

psm321: also, blocks go bad, that's what the spare blocks are for.

[22:59:21]

clever:

causing it to switch to ro mode

[22:59:21]

J-e-f-f-A:

mzb: most of the new drives auto-fail and re-map bad sectors, which I think is the 'logic' driving smartd...

[22:59:37]

hashbang:

psm321: only when you start getting write errors is a drive about to fail

[22:59:44]

psm321:

hashbang: but that's all done internally to the drive, no? you never see a bad block until it runs out of spares

[22:59:46]

hashbang:

J-e-f-f-A: only on write, usually

[22:59:49]

mzb:

they do not remap the bad sector until it becomes "unused" (ie. zeroed)

[22:59:49]

clever:

smart tools can detect how many spare sectors are remaining or how many are remaped so far

[22:59:58]

hashbang:

psm321: no, only on write. :-)

[22:59:59]

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[23:00:15]

psm321:

hashbang: hmm good to know

[23:00:16]

hashbang:

mzb: doesn't have to be zeroed, just written to.

[23:00:30]

clever:

mzb: ah that may help in reseting them

[23:00:30]

clever:

mzb: next time i get the chance i may try that

[23:00:45]

hashbang:

mzb: on the basis that if you're writing to the block, you obviously don't care what data used to be there anymore.

[23:00:51]

mzb:

hasn't been my experience ... whole block needs to be zeroed

[23:00:52]

psm321:

clever: what tool do you use? mine doesnt ascribe any meaning to the various tests/numbers

[23:01:02]

tjcarter:

#!: long time no type =)

[23:01:11]

mzb:

hashbang: correct ... you remove it from your array first ;)

[23:01:12]

clever:

psm321: ive used speedfan a bit for smart data

[23:01:14]

hashbang:

mzb: zeroing is an easy thing to do, though, sure

[23:01:16]

clever:

psm321: but its winblows only

[23:01:20]

hashbang:

mzb: not always. :-)

[23:01:24]

J-e-f-f-A:

tjcarter: did you lose your keyboard? ;-)

[23:01:31]

hashbang:

mzb: as long as it's RAID0 not RAID1 :-)

[23:01:36]

clever:

psm321: the creator worked out many drives to see how fast the health values droped as it died

[23:01:56]

hashbang:

tjcarter: washing up, dinner, watching the last part of The Company

[23:01:59]

mzb:

hashbang: > raid0 ;)

[23:02:02]

clever:

some may get worse faster at a certain point and others may just slowly weaken at a steady rate

[23:02:13]

tjcarter:

J-e-f-f-A: Nah, I've just been around in some capacity for ... oh dear God, half my life has been wasted on irc!!

[23:02:16]

hashbang:

mzb: it's fine for /tmp and friends

[23:02:22]

tjcarter:

;)

[23:02:35]

clever:

tjcarter: ive been on irc since 2004

[23:02:46]

tjcarter:

clever: I have about a decade on you ;)

[23:02:50]

clever:

lol

[23:02:53]

clever:

I am 20.787702 years old. (I'll be 21 in 11wks 1day 6hrs 57mins 4secs.)

[23:02:54]

mzb:

cut it out ... you're making me feel old

[23:03:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

tjcarter: I have to admid i've even ssh'd in with VLC or NX and watched the channel while at work... (don't tell my boss!)

[23:03:03]

clever:

i feel old:P

[23:03:07]

** hashbang yawns at net longevity pissing contest. :-) **

[23:03:09]

clever:

mzb: i blew a knee about a year ago

[23:03:21]

mzb:

u*2 :|

[23:03:26]

clever:

mzb: jan 2007 area

[23:03:27]

** hashbang has been online for 15 years and 2 months. :-) **

[23:03:37]

tjcarter:

The point was that I recognize #! from ages past =D

[23:03:47]

mzb:

try breaking your head ... that stings a bit ;)

[23:03:50]

hashbang:

tjcarter: eek, you do?

[23:03:55]

hashbang:

tjcarter: just here, I hope...

[23:04:20]

tjcarter:

#!: Here as in channel or as in network?

[23:04:25]

hashbang:

tjcarter: channel

[23:04:34]

** J-e-f-f-A ran a BBS on a TI 99/4a in 1990... With a 40MB hard disk... **

[23:04:38]

tjcarter:

possibly, but more probably from elsewhere.

[23:05:13]

clever:

J-e-f-f-A: ive heard of bbs's but havent actualy used one

[23:05:25]

clever:

J-e-f-f-A: but my dad has used them with the c64

[23:05:28]

tjcarter:

I don't tend to hang around here often. I keep getting tempted to do things that are wildly popular ideas with casual users, but of no interest to anyone who'd actually help code it =D

[23:05:38]

hashbang:

clever: like the web, but in black and white and 80x25

[23:05:44]

clever:

yeah

[23:05:53]

clever:

and not actualy a web of systems

[23:05:56]

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[23:05:58]

** hashbang waves a 300 baud modem at clever **

[23:06:01]

clever:

you dial into 1 site and use a terminal program

[23:06:01]

J-e-f-f-A:

hashbang: 80x25? My TI was 40x24... ;-)

[23:06:09]

tjcarter:

I never actually used a 300 baud modem

[23:06:11]

clever:

i still have the modem for the c64

[23:06:12]

tjcarter:

I owned two of them

[23:06:17]

clever:

dont know what baud it is

[23:06:22]

mzb:

heh

[23:06:25]

hashbang:

J-e-f-f-A: well, if I'd /had/ a modem in the 80s, I would have been on 32x24

[23:06:39]

tjcarter:

But by the time I found a useful thing to do with one, I had a 1200 baud and an Apple //e

[23:06:41]

clever:

i have 2 c64's and a vic20

[23:07:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

My first home computer was a Timex-Sinclair 1000, with the extra 16K ram and a cassette recorder for program storage...

[23:07:15]

mzb:

seems relevant to the old timers: http://www.marcusbrutus.soho.on.net/blog/?p=10

[23:07:47]

mzb:

a *real* machine ;)

[23:07:55]

psm321:

tjcarter: what sort of things are you tempted to code?

[23:08:24]

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[23:10:16]

tjcarter:

psm321: MythTV as just a DVR, with robustness enough to be an install and forget appliance, targetted to a very minimal (but widespread + cheap) set of hardware..

[23:10:28]

psm321:

ah

[23:10:48]

clever:

some of my frontends are dead simple to use

[23:11:05]

clever:

i edited a few settings to make them as noob friendly as posibly

[23:11:12]

J-e-f-f-A:

some of my frontends are just dead. ;-)

[23:11:15]

clever:

and dad wont even look at the guide because its abnormal:P

[23:11:22]

J-e-f-f-A:

(haven't updated them to match svn of my backend yet...)

[23:11:44]

clever:

i only have 2 'install's of myth

[23:12:01]

clever:

the master runs ubuntu 6.06 with the normal prefix of /usr/local/

[23:12:11]

tjcarter:

psm321: the largest bit of actual code involved would be some bootloader tweakings and a mythtv-setup that works without X11 (either web or curses interface) needed for headless backends.

[23:12:14]

clever:

all other systems are ubuntu 7.10 with --prefix=/media/mainlv/root/7.10/

[23:12:17]

clever:

and thats nfs

[23:12:29]

clever:

so 1 install is shared over 6 frontends

[23:12:42]

psm321:

heh

[23:12:58]

psm321:

i've often considered doing scalability work on myth... if only i had the free time

[23:13:02]

tjcarter:

psm321: you interested in any of the details?

[23:13:50]

psm321:

tjcarter: nah, sorry... while it would be nice to see that sort of thing, it's not interesting/important enoguh for me to work on it

[23:13:55]

psm321:

:-/

[23:14:02]

tjcarter:

I did say as much =D

[23:14:18]

psm321:

turns out myth breaks in a lot of interesting ways when you have _a lot_ of recordings or schedules

[23:14:22]

tjcarter:

The people who want it are the people who have no intention of hacking stuff myth-related.

[23:14:37]

clever:

psm321: i talked to 1 person who had over 10k recordings

[23:14:48]

clever:

psm321: under 700 different show titles

[23:14:48]

psm321:

that would most likely be me

[23:14:52]

clever:

lol

[23:15:07]

psm321:

seriously, i remember we had a conversation a while ago

[23:15:20]

jams:

tjcarter- i understand your point about the bootloader and your idea there, but really what is the obsession with a curses based setup tool?

[23:15:30]

directhex:

tjcarter, port the whole thing to c#, and run all interoperability using SOAP requests! SOAP's Enterprise Ready(tm), that must mean it scales brilliantly!

[23:15:34]

clever:

psm321: and my memory is poor:P

[23:15:36]

jams:

several people have asked for it, but i just don't understand why

[23:15:51]

directhex:

jams, fear of libX11-dev

[23:16:07]

tjcarter:

jams: actually the more I think about it, the more the mythtv-setup for a headless backend would make sense to be configured using web interface.

[23:16:45]

clever:

tjcarter: using a uniq hostname in mysql.txt you can trick mythtv-setup to edit the stuff for another host

[23:16:45]

siXy:

jams: actually it would be useful – sometimes its handy not to require an xserver to setup somehting that ultimately won't need one

[23:16:49]

tjcarter:

jams: What prompted that whole part of the thinking is that my frontend is a Mac and my backend is headless.

[23:16:57]

clever:

but channel scaning wont work right and a few other things

[23:17:38]

clever:

ive ran myth progs thru X11 forwading and thru a vnc X server

[23:17:40]

tjcarter:

jams: X11 forwarding is possible, but the kind of thing that someone should not need/want to set up as part of the configuration. Plus it doesn't behave properly (focus issues) and is really really slow for me.

[23:17:52]

clever:

the vnc x server is great for controling a mythfrontend/setup from winblows

[23:18:01]

clever:

and X forwarding is seamless for controling from linux

[23:18:08]

** J-e-f-f-A ugh... [ot] my pos M$ machine's network card always needs to be disabled and re-enabled after coming out of hibernation for the last month or so... POS MS!!! <sorry for the rant...> **

[23:18:17]

clever:

tjcarter: X11 thru SSH is damn slow:P

[23:18:25]

tjcarter:

clever: I considered vnc too, that'd solve the issues related to X11 forwarding being lame. =D

[23:18:28]

clever:

tjcarter: X11 over raw tcp thru the lan is damn fast!

[23:18:43]

J-e-f-f-A:

I now prefer NX... it's incredibly fast!

[23:19:35]

clever:

tjcarter: the key line for vnc thru X is Xvnc4 :1 -screen scrn 1340x800x16 PasswordFile=/home/clever/.vnc/passwd &

[23:19:48]

clever:

tjcarter: the 'vncserver' script that comes with it fails because twm is missing

[23:19:56]

tjcarter:

clever: I sortof intend to see Win32 and Mac frontends mature--particularly when full frontend becomes a slight extension beyond supporting Myth as UPnP AV server..

[23:20:05]

tjcarter:

assuming that actually happens.

[23:20:07]

clever:

tjcarter: once you have the above line working you can just use it like a plain X server

[23:20:24]

directhex:

clever, xfixes

[23:20:35]

clever:

directhex: what about that>

[23:20:41]

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[23:21:13]

directhex:

clever, recent builds of vnc break horribly IME. add "-extension XFIXES" to the command line

[23:21:38]

clever:

ah

[23:21:50]

clever:

my main problem is twm is missing so the 'vncserver' script fails

[23:22:00]

tjcarter:

clever: as for a dedicated FE/BE or thin FE, I sortof intended an extremely stripped down X server (just enough to interface video driver and Myth)..

[23:22:03]

clever:

using Xvnc4 directly like X works great

[23:22:19]

clever:

tjcarter: my netbooting systems where extremely striped down

[23:22:21]

tjcarter:

In fact, I intended to really strip things down to basic components all around.

[23:22:25]

clever:

<1gig i beleive

[23:22:26]

jams:

tjcarter- as others have chipped in, i think vnc or nx is the best your going to get for some time. Neither of them would require "X" configured on the backend . It would still need to be installed, but no need for it to run.

[23:22:31]

tjcarter:

As I said, 512 MB is my goal =D

[23:22:50]

clever:

tjcarter: but then i gave up and thru in a full gnome and firefox:P

[23:22:53]

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[23:22:57]

tjcarter:

haha

[23:23:07]

clever:

im sharing that between 3 systems so it maters less

[23:23:18]

J-e-f-f-A:

tjcarter: I think you can get below 512mb... especially without a gui, except for the frontend...

[23:23:28]

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[23:23:41]

jams:

vnc to be controlled via a web browser if your really looking for some fun.

[23:23:56]

hashbang:

J-e-f-f-A: my combined FE/BE used to be 512MB before I upgraded to 0.20/FC8

[23:24:00]

clever:

vnc has a java applet viewer

[23:24:04]

tjcarter:

J-e-f-f-A: it need not be totally under 512 MB.. 512 MB is just the read-only partition with binaries and scripts and whatnot.

[23:24:07]

clever:

jams: which could be used to control from a web browser

[23:24:23]

J-e-f-f-A:

hashbang: my backend was just 512mb until I upgraded it too... And I used it for a frontend pretty often too...

[23:24:28]

clever:

tjcarter: my netbooting systems have more then 512mb but its r/w over nfs

[23:24:52]

tjcarter:

I was figuring 4GB or so for r/w space for database, settings, etc

[23:25:10]

clever:

572mb for /var/

[23:25:13]

J-e-f-f-A:

tjcarter: Ooh... booting off a CF drive to ram... No HD... Yeah, sign me up! ;-)

[23:25:27]

clever:

i have 3 systems booting without cf or hdd

[23:25:33]

clever:

pxe!

[23:25:46]

skyphyr:

hi all – if you've running a backend only mythtv server does it need the themes installed?

[23:25:51]

clever:

4gig for the 'root' image which is on nfs(behind that is ext3 on lvm)

[23:25:52]

tjcarter:

but again, highly robust. If you blow away the r/w partition (probably /var), the scripts just act like you are freshly installing it.

[23:26:08]

J-e-f-f-A:

clever: I played with that about a year ago, and didn't quite get it working right... other priorities came up, so I put it aside... (It's still over here somewhere...)

[23:26:26]

iamlindoro_:

skyphyr: nope

[23:26:51]

clever:

300mb of my space is going to the nfsroot /tmp/

[23:27:00]

clever:

several core dumps

[23:27:05]

tjcarter:

In fact, my planned installer was something like ... partition two r/o system partitions, on r/w data partition, and LVM the rest of the space into KM's /myth directory =D

[23:27:05]

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[23:27:11]

skyphyr:

thanks iamlindoro – for some reason gentoo has themes as a dependency even when you set it to be a backend only install

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[23:28:02]

clever:

you need mythtv-setup to change any settings

[23:28:04]

iamlindoro_:

skyphyr: hmmm, not sure why that would be, but I don't know how they package things up, honestly

[23:28:08]

clever:

and mythtv-setup needs the themes

[23:28:16]

iamlindoro_:

that part is true

[23:28:24]

skyphyr:

ahhh thanks clever – may as well do a full install and ssh with X forwarding – thanks :D

[23:28:31]

tjcarter:

then copy "packages" (more Slackware like major components than rpm/deb) to the r/w partition, and mount one of the system partitions r/w to unpack the major components to it..

[23:28:35]

iamlindoro_:

just like you don't need X but need it long enough to run mythtv-setup (or export X)

[23:28:50]

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[23:28:54]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, you can safely remove it after mythtv-setup, but probably best to leave it just in case

[23:29:04]

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[23:29:13]

tjcarter:

Then reboot into that system and since there is no data (other than the packages) on /var, it is a clean setup from scratch (which should take about 20 minutes or so)

[23:29:13]

skyphyr:

yeah – may as well leave it after waiting for it and all the dependencies to install – thanks again :D

[23:29:34]

jams:

you should only need GANT for mythtv-setup as it's the default and will use it when all else fails.

[23:30:00]

clever:

jams: but the package manager may shove ALL themes into a giant package

[23:30:16]

tjcarter:

upgrades happen similarly to TiVo.. Mount second partition r/w, unpack the latest components to it (blowing away whatever was there before), set it to boot instead, and reboot into it.

[23:30:24]

clever:

and there is a default theme in the background catching anything the select one is missing

[23:30:44]

tjcarter:

If this process fails, reboot back into old/working system until there is a newer update, then try it.

[23:30:45]

jams:

GANT should be part of mythtv not myth-themes. but then again i have no knowledge of gentoo, nor do i want any.

[23:30:52]

clever:

tjcarter: ive talked to some1 before who was using unionfs and several layers for upgrades and stuff

[23:31:05]

clever:

tjcarter: he had a purely ro rom for the main base

[23:31:17]

clever:

then a ro 'patch' in flash for any recent changes

[23:31:23]

clever:

then a tmpfs to add write support

[23:31:24]

skyphyr:

btw when I have a dvb card in there and the upnp media server – does it provide the channels and stream them? if so, does it enable time shifting?

[23:31:28]

tjcarter:

clever: I was going a bit lower tech =)

[23:31:37]

clever:

and we talked of how to handle updating the flash

[23:31:56]

clever:

union the 'patch' from flash and the tmpfs then make a new image for the flash

[23:32:15]

tjcarter:

clever: my assumption was that the thing was HD-based, but that the system partitions were r/o for safety, with all of the things told to store their data in the volatile partition

[23:32:54]

clever:

yeah you could have a truly ro base to the whole thign(livecd maybe)

[23:32:58]

jams:

tjcarter- each system parition has it's own /var for r/w ?

[23:33:14]

clever:

then a r/w chunk that you may want to write to rarely(hdd/cf/usb stick)

[23:33:19]

tjcarter:

jams: shared /var (which could be an issue for database schema updates)

[23:33:21]

clever:

then a tmpfs to handle the freq writes

[23:33:28]

tjcarter:

jams: I hadn't figured out how to deal with that yet.

[23:33:54]

clever:

and some way to merge the tmpfs into the middle layer at regular intervals or at shutdown

[23:33:56]

jams:

yes it could, just wanted to clairfy that one.

[23:34:08]

tjcarter:

I think it's a problem that COULD be solved.

[23:34:11]

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[23:34:13]

clever:

and if you dump the middle and top you get back to a fresh install

[23:34:50]

tjcarter:

just as you can deal with the themes directory probably being shared and having say 0.21 themes in with 0.20 themes

[23:35:12]

clever:

i have a symlink on my master aiming its themes at the slave systems

[23:35:22]

clever:

but they all run identical versions

[23:36:29]

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[23:36:33]

jams:

tjcarter- are you also suggesting that when systemb is updated it takes all it's settings from systema ?

[23:37:02]

jams:

would you have a list of files to pickup and transfer or maybe a master config file that it would read all it's values from?

[23:40:42]

tjcarter:

jams: yes, essentially this whole upgrade procedure is a way to prevent the problem with upgrading you get with things like KM..

[23:41:11]

tjcarter:

jams: namely, I have done some tweaking to KM and found it necessary to move to svn and other such fun things like that.

[23:41:33]

tjcarter:

jams: I'm now a couple of releases behind KM and can't really upgrade safely.

[23:42:58]

tjcarter:

Best I can do if I need to upgrade at some point is to follow the guidelines for moving to new hardware when I just upgrade the software.

[23:43:35]

jams:

how would reinstalling to paritionb help you? you would still loose your tweaks.

[23:43:56]

tjcarter:

No I wouldn't. Anything I write would have gone in /var

[23:43:59]

jams:

i guess they would still be on systema for you manually copy over.

[23:44:26]

jams:

i see

[23:44:58]

tjcarter:

I only made one non-setting tweak--I replaced the sa3250 channel changer with one that allowed me to specify which sa3250 to change since I intend to have more than one soonish.

[23:45:54]

tjcarter:

That kind of detail would be handled in my case by making sure that all channel changers took the requisite multi-box-supporting parameters =D

[23:46:27]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: No it doesn't not

[23:46:35]

xris:

skyphyr: pretty sure the answer is "no livetv streaming (yet)" though

[23:47:04]

GreyFoxx:

upnp exposes the recordings, scanning in music and mythvideo content

[23:47:16]

GreyFoxx:

but nothing "live" or directly tuner related

[23:47:28]

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[23:47:39]

skyphyr:

thanks – is time shifting supported in recordings? i.e. if I looked at trying to implement something to allow pulling the stream would the work be there already to handle rewind, pause etc?

[23:48:13]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: upnp knows nothing about those things. Your client quests the bytes it wants .

[23:48:21]

GreyFoxx:

requests

[23:48:38]

GreyFoxx:

you say gimme file xyz, byte rang 30000–40000

[23:48:44]

GreyFoxx:

and so on

[23:49:04]

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[23:49:08]

skyphyr:

you sure? on reading the upnp specs it talked about a controller which sends commands for rewind, pause etc? I assumed ps3s etc implemented both the render end and the controller?

[23:49:27]

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[23:49:34]

tjcarter:

who actually uses livetv in Myth?

[23:49:50]

tjcarter:

AFAIK, it's just for testing your inputs =D

[23:50:01]

** jams uses it all the time **

[23:50:21]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: I'm sure. At least our implementation of MEdia Server. a upnp renderer might, but not the media server

[23:50:22]

skyphyr:

main thing I was aiming at – using a hvr4000 to pull a satellite feed and then being able to live stream it to a upnp client

[23:50:27]

tjcarter:

jams: I never do (partly because it sometimes crashed my old setup, so I got out of the habit real quick)

[23:51:00]

skyphyr:

GreyFoxx – so the mediaserver receives a request from the renderer for particular bytes?

[23:51:03]

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[23:51:06]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: yes

[23:51:13]

iamlindoro:

I've gotten used to starting to watvch all my shows at exactly 16 minutes/hour late... so If I am watching three straight shows, I start 48 minutes into the first, so that I never watch a commercial and "catch up" when the last one ends

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[23:51:41]

skyphyr:

alrighty – thanks for the help GreyFoxx

[23:51:46]

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[23:51:53]

gandalfcome:

I want to change the channels with mythweb (so they are ordered from 1 to 24 or so). Is that a problem if programs are already set for recording?

[23:52:08]

GreyFoxx:

sky for example : http://www.pastebin.ca/840775

[23:52:20]

GreyFoxx:

That is a GET requests from a DSM-320 Renderer

[23:52:57]

tjcarter:

I am seriously considering taking a page out of the how-to-steal-Dish-with-Linux playbook so that I can get stuff directly into Myth without compromising quality. Oh I'd pay for it right enough and not access any channels I didn't receive as part of my package, but still.

[23:53:07]

GreyFoxx:

I'm not saying it couldn't be done. Just that there is no code in the current server to support it

[23:53:30]

tjcarter:

I'm tired of not being able to actually watch things in widescreen, let alone in HD.

[23:53:44]

tjcarter:

(the former being a limitation of MythFrontend on a Mac)

[23:54:07]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: As long as we update the Content-length for each of our replies thenb the renderer would realize the file is getting bigger

[23:54:16]

GreyFoxx:

and you can just play through the file normally

[23:54:54]

tjcarter:

GreyFoxx: that'd be how to handle a show being currently recorded that isn't livetv..

[23:54:57]

GreyFoxx:

the reall trick is adding code to initiate the livetv itself

[23:55:05]

tjcarter:

Solves both problems neatly.

[23:55:51]

GreyFoxx:

tjcarter: Well not really. The main part of the probelem is causing the backend to start a livetv stream without a frontend

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[23:56:04]

skyphyr:

GreyFoxx – does mythtv do the capturing from card itself or does it use an external program?

[23:56:19]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: directly from the card/source

[23:56:30]

tjcarter:

GreyFoxx: ask for /fakepath/live-tv.mpg ?

[23:56:57]

GreyFoxx:

basically the upnp server would have to initiate a "connection" to the backend requesting a livetv startup

[23:57:18]

GreyFoxx:

and then later a tear down when the user stops watching so the backend and recover the tuner for other stuff

[23:57:41]

GreyFoxx:

but upnp renderer doesn't tell a upnp media server when it's done. It just stops asking for data

[23:57:42]

tjcarter:

yeah. The simplest way is for a fake file that can be streamed which is actually live tv

[23:58:02]

skyphyr:

ok – so the things requiring implementation would be the upnp listing for each of the channels (I assume there is a class in place already to pull this information?), then a class for taking the request, creating the temporary file, start the stream dumping to it and then begin playback on it?

[23:58:13]

tjcarter:

oh, you're talking about below that level.

[23:58:16]

tjcarter:

hrm

[23:58:30]

tjcarter:

That is code level stuff I don't wanna think about =D

[23:58:49]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: There is no class for that no. or I should say, nothing in the existing upnp code.

[23:59:13]

GreyFoxx:

skyphyr: But overall what yiou describe is right

[23:59:14]

skyphyr:

sorry – I didn't mean the upnp part, just to get it internally if writing the upnp side?

[23:59:43]

GreyFoxx:

and it would have to also guess when the other end is done and tell the backend to stp the stream

[23:59:58]

skyphyr:

are there any devs who'd be willing to mentor and answer stupid questions if I were to take a swing at getting this working?

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