Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Wednesday, August 8th, 2007, 00:02 UTC

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NightMonkey:

Congrats on the TMS agreement for Schedules Direct, devs. Is the Paypal-only payment method be the only way to pay for the near future (say, 6 months)?

[00:19:29]

NightMonkey:

s/Is/Will/

[00:20:10]

kormoc:

NightMonkey, I haven't heard differently

[00:20:28]

NightMonkey:

kormoc: Thanks.

[00:20:44]

NightMonkey:

Well, I had to sign up for a paypal account recently, so I guess now I'll use it regularly.

[00:21:08]

NightMonkey:

I'd prefer not to use Paypal, but, hey, I Want my MythTV(tm).

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[00:27:32]

laga_:

hey

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laga_:

did you guys ever think about distributing EPG listings via p2p?

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[00:38:24]

Beirdo:

eww

[00:38:49]

Beirdo:

laga_, that acronym is not connected with positive things in the eyes of the general public.

[00:39:00]

laga_:

yay

[00:39:07]

laga_:

i was afraid nobody was gonna flame me for that

[00:39:34]

Beirdo:

also, it would be really hard to even try to enforce any kind of licensing using p2p technologies, and there'd be WAY too much variance between peoples' lineups anyways

[00:41:22]

NightMonkey:

Uh, there's an unclosed p tag on schedulesdirect.org's latest posting, fyi.

[00:41:49]

Beirdo:

heh

[00:42:02]

Beirdo:

I'm sure it will be fixed.

[00:43:01]

NightMonkey:

Dang, I was hoping that someone would say "That's a dev issue, check the topic." ;)

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kormoc:

laga_, the agreement with the provider prohibits redistribution like that. if people ignore it, the listings might go away entirely

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Beirdo:

stttoooopid

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Beirdo:

I was aiming for the arrow, hit the x

[00:56:21]

ShockValue:

oo i hadnt heard about the new listings thing yet.. <goes off to read>

[01:00:21]

ShockValue:

hrm, no $ amount listed yet?

[01:02:50]

laga_:

kormoc: i know. i was just trying to stir up $things ;)

[01:04:25]

Anduin:

ShockValue: correct

[01:04:39]

ShockValue:

kk

[01:04:48]

kormoc:

ShockValue, rest assured it'll be as cheap as they can

[01:05:27]

ShockValue:

oh i know, im totally on their side... im just preparing my statement as to why i need a budget increase to my financial department.

[01:05:28]

Beirdo:

it's a non-profit after all :)

[01:05:34]

laga_:

no new corvettes?

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[01:06:03]

ShockValue:

read: i need to explain to my wife why we need to pay more money for this "free" thing :)

[01:06:12]

Beirdo:

blah, I'll take another Prius :)

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laga_:

Beirdo: got one?

[01:06:43]

Beirdo:

yup

[01:06:46]

laga_:

nifty

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Beirdo:

well, my wife does, I just use it :)

[01:07:06]

** laga_ tries yet another upgrade from -fixes packages to trunk packages **

[01:07:11]

laga_:

hopefully it will go well this well

[01:07:15]

ShockValue:

ive been considering building myself an all electric car.. there's a 1968 fiat for sale up the road for $500 that would work well :)

[01:07:17]

laga_:

err, this time

[01:07:31]

Beirdo:

oooh an electric lada

[01:07:44]

ShockValue:

and i only commute 5 miles total per day, so i dont need huge range

[01:07:55]

Beirdo:

buy a mountain bike

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Beirdo:

:)

[01:08:01]

ShockValue:

yeah yeah, i was waiting for that :)

[01:08:14]

ShockValue:

i live in seattle.. winter riding isnt much fun

[01:08:19]

kormoc:

ShockValue, buy a horse

[01:08:20]

Beirdo:

heh

[01:08:31]

Beirdo:

more fun than it was in Ottawa, but I survived

[01:08:36]

Beirdo:

even in -39C

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ShockValue:

ouch, that makes my nostrils hurt

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Beirdo:

WTF was I thinking THAT day?

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kormoc:

then you can moonlight as a horse drawn sleigh during the winder

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ShockValue:

not really, it rains alot here, but no snow :)

[01:09:26]

kormoc:

ShockValue, lies! It snowed *TWICE* last winter :P

[01:09:32]

Beirdo:

hehe

[01:09:42]

ShockValue:

well yeah, for a grand total of about 12 hours of snow on the ground

[01:09:42]

Beirdo:

that's twice more than here in Puerto Rico

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kormoc:

ShockValue, sure, but at a large fee for those few hours, you could make a nice bit

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Beirdo:

might pay for a week's horse feed

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kormoc:

and you'd never have apples going bad again in your life

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ShockValue:

i bet the maintenance on a horse is more $ than 20 miles per week in gas

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** kormoc laughs **

[01:10:53]

Beirdo:

and cleaning up the turds... eeek.

[01:11:07]

kormoc:

that's what them there gosh darn kids are for

[01:11:08]

Beirdo:

give poop n' scoop a whole new meaning

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ShockValue:

my only child is 9 days old.. it'll be at least anohter couple months before she's able to clean up horse crap :)

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** kormoc laughs and congratz ShockValue **

[01:12:02]

ShockValue:

besides, she has to learn to do the dishes and mow the lawn first

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Beirdo:

9 days and you're managing to get IRC time? wow :)

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** ShockValue flashes an evil grin **

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laga_:

hands started shaking badly without IRC i guess ;)

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ShockValue:

well, 95% of her time ATM is sleeping or eating. I cant really provide any feeding.. and sleeping means i can sneak off for some IRC

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[01:13:25]

Beirdo:

hehe, true

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ShockValue:

its like when a guy is fixing a car and his girlfriend is there.. she's kinda there to lend support and hand him a wrench (stereotying here for a point)

[01:14:05]

ShockValue:

just the opposite with me and the wife right now :)

[01:14:37]

kormoc:

Hormone treatments could 'fix' things... :P

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ShockValue:

lol nah.. if i had the facilities to feed a child, i wouldnt need a wife either >:)

[01:15:30]

ShockValue:

and on that note.. im gonna go check to see what im supposed to be nuking for dinner :)

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TSCHAK:

I want to tell the people of SchedulesDirect, thank you so much

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riddlebox:

TSCHAK, the service is free to regular users right?

[01:48:19]

TSCHAK:

riddlebox, read the site. :-)

[01:48:39]

riddlebox:

TSCHAK, it look that way, but I want to be sure

[01:48:50]

Beirdo:

free?

[01:48:53]

Beirdo:

doubtful

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TSCHAK:

there is a subscription fee

[01:49:06]

TSCHAK:

but it shouldn't be much

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TSCHAK:

i'll gladly pay it.

[01:49:15]

TSCHAK:

no matter how much it is

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riddlebox:

the site just says, there is a paypal account for commercial users

[01:50:42]

riddlebox:

nevermind, it says offered to non-commercial users

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[02:04:28]

adante:

wow, you guys are ok with paying for epg info?

[02:06:31]

clever:

adante: depends on how much it will cost

[02:06:56]

clever:

if something is deleted by auto expire(low diskspace) will it getauto rerecorded?

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[02:08:15]

clever:

'and Canada./p>'

[02:08:19]

clever:

typo in the html

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TSCHAK:

adante, why not?

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[02:13:06]

TSCHAK:

adante, why must everybody who uses free software ascribe to the "we're not paying for shit" mantra?

[02:13:53]

Anduin:

clever: oldrecorded will be updated so that it will (if there is still a rule to find it)

[02:14:25]

clever:

the rules to record said shows arent being removed(and are set to record any episodeon anychannel)

[02:14:51]

adante:

TSCHAK: i realise those are your words, not mine, and you are not directly accusing me of anything, but certainly saying that in response to me carries a strong implication

[02:15:00]

clever:

but its hard to check if its working right since id need to make it expire a show thatrepeats soon

[02:15:08]

clever:

or i'll be waiting a year fora rerun and forget

[02:15:41]

adante:

but for the record i don't subscribe to that mantra, although i do object to having to pay for this sort of information

[02:16:00]

TSCHAK:

adante, well, do consider that even though TMS does scrape this from a lot of different sources.. the process of doing so, on a constant basis, does employ a ton of manpower.

[02:16:46]

TSCHAK:

adante, and that even though there are tons of commercial agencies which do pay a nice chunk for this same information to print in their newspapers, magazines, and in commercial products (TiVO pays a ton for this data.)....

[02:16:48]

clever:

one person i talked to said it would be cheaper to manualy inputeverything while reading a guide...

[02:16:49]

clever:

lol

[02:16:58]

adante:

hm, admittedly i am not very familiar with offering epg services – what sort of ongoing overheads do they face?

[02:17:20]

TSCHAK:

adante, they chose... to offer a service... to allow hobbyists to not only READ the data, but release it in a form that we could do unique things with it....

[02:17:23]

TSCHAK:

adante, for free.

[02:17:27]

Anduin:

adante: There will always be a free method, the data may not be as good and it may require updating more frequently (like it was pre-DataDirect), but unless all TV listing sites disappear you will have options.

[02:17:55]

clever:

about all i can think thwy need to get paided for is the power/bandwidth/employes/and maybe the data(reselling it to us)

[02:18:06]

adante:

TSCHAK: hm, but if you have to pay for it, it is not free

[02:18:19]

adante:

TSCHAK: anyway, what sort of 'ton of manpower' do they face, i am curious?

[02:18:29]

TSCHAK:

adante, and there were a sizable number of users, who basically violated the end user license agreement, (Which nobody EVER reads).... to try and RE-SELL this information, by various different methods...

[02:18:45]

adante:

Anduin: well fair enough then, i suppose what i don't like is (here in australia), we have been waged in an ongoing battle with epg services for the past 5 years or so

[02:19:17]

TSCHAK:

adante, and even in the face of this... they tried to warn us, for three years, that there were tons of people basically abusing this little service, running on a very tiny little server, and making it harder for the hobbyists which were using it for personal use...

[02:20:24]

adante:

TSCHAK: well that sucks for them, and I can see where they are coming from, but i still would not be that content having to pay for my epg data

[02:20:46]

TSCHAK:

adante, now knowing this.. knowing that the amount of data that they deal with is astronomical, and that they process it, correct it, and deliver it on time to services who demand this data...

[02:20:59]

adante:

i'm not sure if you took this statement as some sort of veiled attack on 'The Man', or a comment on corporate greed or something, but it was not meant in that respect

[02:21:25]

TSCHAK:

adante, they have decided to allow a small non-profit organisation to create a subscription point to cover the costs of providing this data to us.

[02:21:52]

adante:

TSCHAK: i'll ask a third time, what is the 'tons of manpower' in terms of ongoing costs for providing this data?

[02:21:58]

TSCHAK:

adante, if you don't want to use it.. don't use it.. but they ARE providing a service, and only charging for the service.

[02:22:44]

TSCHAK:

adante, how many TV channels are out there? how many different TV lineups in the US are there? how many different providers of television mapping the channels to lineups are there?

[02:22:45]

Anduin:

adante: There are several, long, boring threads on the -users ml that covers this.

[02:22:47]

TSCHAK:

adante, DO THE MATH.

[02:23:26]

adante:

TSCHAK: you say this "if you don't want to use it, don't use it", which suggests it is my prerogative, but you are basically jumping all over me for doing exactly that

[02:23:28]

TSCHAK:

adante, I believe in free software, I use it every day... but I do know I have to live in reality (this makes me a rational anarchist).

[02:24:21]

adante:

TSCHAK: please don't tie this to a comment on a completely free software ethos, as i stated that was not my point

[02:24:25]

TSCHAK:

adante, same with providing the TV listings... I want it to work, I want it to work well, and if the subscription price is reasonable, i'll pay it.

[02:25:17]

TSCHAK:

adante, now, my altruistic perfect world aspirations aside of all this being unneccessary on a grand scale (it really is)........

[02:26:02]

TSCHAK:

adante, I do realise I live in an imperfect world, that people are being paid for the service of providing this data... they are providing this data, and not really restricting it all that much except for not bundling it commercially.

[02:26:18]

TSCHAK:

and even then there STILL

[02:26:22]

TSCHAK:

are provisions for that.

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[02:27:07]

TSCHAK:

adante, compromise, it's what keeps us idealists able to make a better world in the face of its insanity :-P

[02:27:57]

TSCHAK:

adante, and yes, I am jumping all over you.. I really shouldn't be.. you're really just another in a long line of people who have repeatedly taken this stance, and quite frankly it's...really........really....old.

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[02:29:46]

adante:

Anduin: sorry for beating a dead horse, i had meant this as a one liner expressing incredulity at the acceptance of paying for epg guide data (because this is certainly not the mentality in australia), but if someone comes up an essentially challenges me basically being deficient for having that opinion, i'm going to defend myself

[02:30:39]

TSCHAK:

adante, and I do understand your stance on this... please understand the US TV situation is a _LOT_ bigger and more diverse than Australia.

[02:31:21]

JackEStorm:

hey I already pay for it 5 times, what is another 1, 2, 3, 4 times...

[02:31:46]

TSCHAK:

now THAT part is a totally different argument, and I do have a problem with that.

[02:32:41]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: yeah me too, but what ya gonna do?

[02:32:52]

adante:

TSCHAK: well fair enough, and sorry for bringing it up again, but if your problem is that this has been discussed before, then just say so and i'm sure we can agree to disagree :]

[02:33:16]

TSCHAK:

adante, fair enough. :-)

[02:33:30]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, um....... revolution? ;-)

[02:33:53]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: TMS has too much of a control over it.

[02:34:01]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, and yes, they do....

[02:34:04]

adante:

on the other hand if you start listing points and suggesting i'm as some idealistic everything should be free-as-in-source hippie, well yeah i'll engage :]

[02:34:10]

floppyears:

hi guys what's up ?

[02:34:21]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, but then again.. if someone manages to gather all that data bypassing TMS, my hat is off to them.

[02:34:44]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, trust me, it is a love-hate relationship.

[02:35:10]

TSCHAK:

but again....

[02:35:19]

TSCHAK:

I thank Isaac, and the XMLTV guys for providing a choice

[02:35:38]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: a few years back there where some others that did...not sure what happended to them

[02:35:41]

TSCHAK:

and busting their ass to make that happen (i've formed non-profits, I _KNOW_ the hell involved!)

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[02:41:14]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: the biggest problem is that in the US, OnScreen EPG is patented.

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[02:41:27]

metalac:

anyone knows if there is a keybinding for Program Guide, while in liveTV mode?

[02:41:41]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, god, what _ISN'T_ in this #@($#($#@ country

[02:42:07]

Anduin:

metalac: s

[02:42:30]

metalac:

Anduin: sweet, thanks

[02:42:40]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: not sure, still looking :) 'cause it's my turn to screw someone.

[02:48:22]

JackEStorm:

TSCHAK: you know what is even worse? when a local OTA station puts their listings on the TV Station's own webpage, they have to pay fees back to Gemstar and TMS

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[02:50:20]

TSCHAK:

JackEStorm, yup, i know.

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[02:55:41]

floppyears:

quick question does video decoding use up a lot of resources meaning should I get a motherboard or card that has decoding built-in ?

[02:56:30]

tjcarter:

it'd help if your video card can accellerate colorspace conversion

[02:57:26]

tjcarter:

but realistically you'll be using some Intel Core 2 or AMD X2 chip, so don't worry about it too much unless you wanna process four streams while playing back a fifth one.

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[02:58:32]

tjcarter:

although, I actually don't have a hard time imaginging the value of a quad input machine, even though I don't watch enough TV to have a third program to record at a given time

[02:58:37]

floppyears:

ok

[02:58:46]

floppyears:

thanks tjcarter

[02:58:50]

tjcarter:

four inputs would allow you to always start early and end late

[02:59:02]

tjcarter:

and still have two programs recorded =)

[02:59:29]

floppyears:

wow, that's a lot of cards

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[03:05:05]

adante:

TSCHAK: had a phone call.. but just wanted to say as a final rejoinder... i have absolutely problem with this new $-epg-subscription service, and completely realise that the service zap2it provided was priviledge and not a right.

[03:05:28]

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[03:05:50]

adante:

when i said what i did i simply meant that i'm still not ready to pay for guide data (am i stingy? most probably :) – it wasn't meant as a criticism of either scheduledirect or zap2it stopping

[03:06:07]

TSCHAK:

ok

[03:06:39]

adante:

i guess i find it a shame zap2it stops and scheduledirect charges, but i'm not bearing a grudge for any of it

[03:07:24]

TSCHAK:

and the Bush administration is raiding homes of people who speak out against them....

[03:07:26]

TSCHAK:

it sucks...

[03:07:34]

TSCHAK:

but don't worry, there is a revolt in the making :-P

[03:07:51]

TSCHAK:

:-)

[03:08:10]

TSCHAK:

wow, I seem to be flippant, tonight.

[03:10:00]

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[03:10:06]

contant:

hello everyone!

[03:10:27]

contant:

would someone be able to help me with an issue i am having with my IR receiver/blaster?

[03:10:27]

GreyFoxx:

adante: it was either charge or suffer with screen scapers

[03:10:39]

GreyFoxx:

Cause the info unfortunately is very expensive

[03:11:11]

GreyFoxx:

I'm more than happy to pay for it (within reason). It has value to me

[03:11:13]

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[03:11:45]

TSCHAK:

because god knows..... we just can't afford as a nation to miss another episode of American Idol.....

[03:11:54]

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[03:12:05]

GreyFoxx:

I'm not part of your nation, nor do I watch American Idol :)

[03:12:18]

TSCHAK:

hehehehehe

[03:12:32]

GreyFoxx:

Or at least, I only watch the audition bits since those are funny :)

[03:12:41]

GreyFoxx:

after that I don't watch it until the next season :)

[03:13:02]

TSCHAK:

I just realised the show I record the most, is Whose Line is it Anyway (the BBC version)

[03:13:05]

TSCHAK:

am I brain damaged?

[03:13:55]

Anduin:

By now, certainly.

[03:13:56]

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[03:14:30]

TSCHAK:

I mostly record stand-up comedy

[03:17:11]

JackEStorm:

I record too much

[03:19:40]

TSCHAK:

if i can record all the george carlin specials onto DVD

[03:19:42]

TSCHAK:

i'll be happy

[03:19:43]

TSCHAK:

;-)

[03:20:47]

JackEStorm:

slap him on blu-ray

[03:20:59]

TSCHAK:

"Isn't it strange that the people who are against abortion and are pro-life are people you'd never wanna FUCK IN THE FIRST PLACE?!"

[03:21:16]

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[03:37:01]

varun0:

does anyone know about the relative speeds of nfs vs smb/cifs vs ftp?

[03:38:01]

hads:

How are you going to use FTP in Myth?

[03:39:06]

varun0:

well.....not from myth per se, but I use it to transfer backed up DVDs to my fileserver

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[03:42:52]

contant:

hello everyone!

[03:44:04]

contant:

i recently got my ir-transmitter and receiver workign for my mythtv setup ... i used the information available at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Motorola_DC . . . hange_Script ... when i issue channel change commands in the terminal i can get them to work fine but they do not work through the channel change script in mythtv

[03:46:32]

contant:

is anyone here?

[03:46:50]

floppyears:

quick quesiton

[03:47:04]

floppyears:

which one of these 2 cpus should I get: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103733 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103735

[03:47:14]

floppyears:

I can't tell the difference between the 2

[03:48:22]

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[03:48:40]

contant:

i dont think ayone is here floppy

[03:48:49]

contant:

no one is answering right now at least

[03:54:16]

tcpsyn:

hrm.

[03:54:24]

tcpsyn:

So.

[03:54:50]

tcpsyn:

Any reason a ground loop would exist while using a dvi->hdmi cable as opposed to a vga cable?

[04:02:10]

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[04:06:02]

varun0:

floppyears: you still there

[04:06:31]

floppyears:

varun0: yes

[04:07:40]

varun0:

floppyears: the 65.99 is probably 89W

[04:08:06]

varun0:

floppyears: not sure what's it's TDP is, but it's a 1.35V. The 65.50 is 1.25V. Less power

[04:08:26]

varun0:

floppyears: look under "voltage" in the "specifications"

[04:08:33]

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[04:09:21]

Tanthrix:

tcpsyn: That's weird, though it can be pretty random just what will cause a loop to happen and what won't when dealing with a computer.

[04:10:01]

Tanthrix:

Probably just that the dvi connector is somehow connected directly to the ground of the computer, while the vga connector isn't.

[04:10:37]

varun0:

floppyears: it's strange, though. They are both 90nm cores. Hm.

[04:10:39]

tcpsyn:

wow, found something on it

[04:10:47]

tcpsyn:

Running the screen at 1368x768 will result in a little line running up the image from time to time.

[04:10:53]

tcpsyn:

found that in a modeline wiki

[04:11:05]

tcpsyn:

that's the issue, might not be a ground loop, just same symptom

[04:11:19]

Tanthrix:

Weird

[04:12:34]

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[04:12:39]

minthome:

lo' all...

[04:13:01]

minthome:

I cannot find a legit answer to this on the interweb, so...

[04:13:25]

minthome:

my mythbackend is crashing within an hour of me restarting it

[04:13:38]

minthome:

logs say, [mpeg2video @ 0xb734e768]ac-tex damaged at 0 41

[04:13:39]

minthome:

etvc

[04:15:23]

Agrajag-:

i don't think that's the cause of the crash

[04:15:50]

Agrajag-:

i get them all the time when my dvb signal is poor, doesn't cause the backend to crash

[04:16:07]

minthome:

well my mythbackend log was 64MB after only a week or so up.. filled with those things

[04:16:21]

minthome:

also getting

[04:16:22]

minthome:

[mpeg2video @ 0xb734e768]invalid mb type in P Frame at 8 32\

[04:16:24]

floppyears:

thanks varun0

[04:16:53]

varun0:

floppyears: np.

[04:17:09]

tcpsyn:

I see in my Xorg.0.log that my "720p" mode is validated

[04:17:21]

tcpsyn:

Then I see "Virtual Screen Size determined to be 1280x720"

[04:17:31]

tcpsyn:

and then I see "Setting Mode to 720p"

[04:17:33]

tcpsyn:

so...

[04:17:39]

tcpsyn:

is it running at 720p or 1280x720

[04:17:40]

floppyears:

varun0: will this motherboard http://www.directron.com/gam61ps3.html be able to hold 2 hauppage 150 cards ?

[04:17:50]

minthome:

other than that Agrajag- all i see in the backend log is

[04:17:50]

minthome:

2007-08–07 23:52:22.797 AutoExpire: ERROR when trying to autoexpire file: /home/myth/4294967295_20070710172854.mpg. File doesn't exist.

[04:17:59]

floppyears:

I want to order my components tonight, but I want to run them by this channel 1 more time

[04:18:30]

tcpsyn:

yes.

[04:18:35]

tcpsyn:

That'll run 4 of them.

[04:18:38]

Agrajag-:

minthome: what version are you using?

[04:18:51]

varun0:

tcpsyn: will they all fit? I don't know how big they are

[04:18:59]

tcpsyn:

they'll fit.

[04:19:08]

minthome:

Library API version: 0.20.20060828–3

[04:19:08]

minthome:

Source code version: exported

[04:19:08]

minthome:

Options compiled in:

[04:19:08]

minthome:

linux release using_xvmcw using_v4l using_oss using_alsa using_ivtv using_dbox2 using_hdhr using_ip_rec using_freebox using_live using_lirc using_joystick_menu using_dvb using_x11 using_xv using_xrandr using_xvmc using_xvmc_vld using_opengl_vsync using_opengl using_frontend using_backend

[04:19:10]

floppyears:

thanks tcpsyn

[04:19:13]

tcpsyn:

np

[04:19:20]

tcpsyn:

do you already have them?

[04:19:44]

tcpsyn:

the cards?

[04:20:05]

floppyears:

no, I'm going to buy them at newegg

[04:20:21]

tcpsyn:

if you get a pvr-500 instead, you only need one pci slot.

[04:20:32]

tcpsyn:

that saves space, heat, and cable.

[04:20:48]

tcpsyn:

I wish i'd had done that instead of 2 150s.

[04:22:34]

floppyears:

tcpsyn: I was planning on buying that, but some people in this channel mentioned that it's best to get 2 150

[04:23:03]

floppyears:

because some people seem to have problems getting both tuners in the 500 to work right and that it's a lo tof hassle and work

[04:23:33]

tcpsyn:

oh.

[04:23:37]

tcpsyn:

alright then.

[04:23:43]

minthome:

Agrajag-, that is the newest version... I'm not sure what to do other than run mythbackend via daemontools

[04:23:58]

tcpsyn:

I'd suggest keeping them apart though. you've got 4 slots in that board, put them in 1 and 3

[04:24:03]

tcpsyn:

for heat.

[04:24:10]

tcpsyn:

they fit, but their close.

[04:25:01]

floppyears:

thanks tcpsyn

[04:25:35]

tcpsyn:

I just got a pc-hdtv off ebay

[04:25:40]

tcpsyn:

should get here tomorrow I hope

[04:25:44]

tcpsyn:

to replace a pvr-150

[04:25:57]

minthome:

tcpsyn, they are nice, but only for HDtv

[04:26:11]

minthome:

their analog capabilites are lacking

[04:27:09]

tcpsyn:

yeah, I'll just use that card for hd, and a pvr-150 for analog

[04:27:44]

tcpsyn:

the only thing I really watch that isn't broadcast in HD is southpark

[04:28:00]

tcpsyn:

It's 24, Prison Break, and Jehrico that I'm concerned with :)

[04:29:15]

minthome:

i'm wondering if it's that card that's making my backend crash

[04:30:10]

floppyears:

will that motherboard work with the cpu that I posted earlier ? I think so, but I just want to check things thoroughly

[04:30:14]

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[04:46:34]

tcpsyn:

if my tvs native resolution is 1366x768

[04:46:49]

tcpsyn:

and it's advertised as a 720p tv.

[04:46:58]

tcpsyn:

and 720p is 1280x720

[04:47:09]

tcpsyn:

which one is the right resolution for it?

[04:47:33]

floppyears:

does the case matter when building a machine ? I mean besides the form factor ?

[04:47:37]

floppyears:

does the brand name make that much of difference ?

[04:47:38]

tcpsyn:

heat

[04:47:47]

floppyears:

I'm wondering what to look for in a case

[04:47:48]

tcpsyn:

case is important because of heat.

[04:47:54]

tcpsyn:

whats it for?

[04:48:05]

tcpsyn:

frontend, backend? multi purpose?

[04:49:50]

floppyears:

the machine is a frontend and backend

[04:50:51]

tcpsyn:

then you want to consider heat, noise, and room for disk.

[04:52:12]

floppyears:

I want a good case, but I don't want to spend too much since the rest of the components are already quite a bit

[04:53:24]

floppyears:

what do you think about this case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144026

[04:53:48]

floppyears:

and the one here http://www.directron.com/6c28.html

[04:55:23]

adante:

GreyFoxx: at one stage in australia we didn't have any options except for screen-scrapers

[04:56:46]

tcpsyn:

floppyear, I think it's silly, but I'm not buying it

[04:56:47]

adante:

at the moment there is a service that charges $100AU (about 85usd) a year for epg data

[04:57:10]

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[04:57:18]

adante:

GreyFoxx: but they are currently (or were) being sued by one of our stations for copyright infringement (argument was, they owned the IP on the epg info)

[04:57:51]

adante:

on a sidenote the actual legal status of screen-scrapers is a bit of a murky legal area in australia

[04:58:46]

floppyears:

tcpsyn: what aren't you buying ?

[04:59:06]

adante:

and there was a 3–4 year period where we were constantly engaged in an arms race as sites would try to obfuscate the data and people would update screen-scrapers to deobfuscate it

[05:02:50]

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[05:05:13]

Agrajag-:

adante: what's the service that charges the $100AU for data?

[05:05:55]

adante:

Agrajag-: icetv?

[05:06:29]

Agrajag-:

oh right ok yeah

[05:07:15]

adante:

heh i think you the were one who told me about them being sued?

[05:07:16]

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[05:09:32]

tcpsyn:

floppyear, the christmas tree case.

[05:09:34]

Agrajag-:

possibly.. can't remember. i just remember how annoying it used to be to have to keep on updating my tv_grab_au. i haven't touched the oztivo script since i installed it, it's great

[05:10:50]

adante:

Agrajag-: should take a look at whuffy/shepherd.. i found the data has been much higher quality

[05:10:59]

adante:

well, if you're interested – i guess if it ain't broke don't fix it :]

[05:11:48]

Agrajag-:

yeah.. im not so interested in the descriptinos and stuff.. as long as the shows and times are correct

[05:20:24]

floppyears:

tcpsyn: why if you don't mind me asking ?

[05:21:50]

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[05:26:52]

tcpsyn:

floppyear, just not my style :)

[05:27:08]

tcpsyn:

I'm all about plain black

[05:27:50]

floppyears:

oh

[05:28:55]

floppyears:

so with 2 tuners 150, the remote, 500GB hdd and a video card how much of a power supply will I need

[05:30:15]

mikeones:

how can I tell mythtv to recorde the 2nd hour of a two hour show after a 1 hour show with a higher priority has finnished?

[05:31:02]

Tanthrix:

mikeones: Set the one hour show to end an hour early, and start the second show an hour late – no way to make that automatic though

[05:31:55]

tcpsyn:

400+

[05:32:05]

mikeones:

so no way to make mythtv start a recording in mid show?

[05:32:11]

tcpsyn:

sure there is.

[05:32:39]

tcpsyn:

you can set it to record a channel at a certain time

[05:33:01]

tcpsyn:

wait

[05:33:15]

tcpsyn:

yeah.

[05:33:33]

tcpsyn:

just make sure it's set to start recording a minute after the end of the first show

[05:33:48]

floppyears:

thanks tcpsyn

[05:33:58]

tcpsyn:

np

[05:36:22]

tcpsyn:

I need storage

[05:36:34]

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[05:40:30]

Tanthrix:

mikeones: You can make any recording start early or end late for a single recording or a whole series

[05:40:43]

Tanthrix:

Or start late, and end early.

[05:41:03]

mikeones:

Tanthrix: ok

[05:47:49]

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[05:48:37]

Alex_Gaynor:

Hey, when is the next version of mythweb with the flash player supposed to come out?

[05:52:26]

hads:

When 0.21 is released if the required functionality is present in mythbackend.

[05:52:27]

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[05:52:36]

hads:

Otherwise after that.

[05:53:30]

Alex_Gaynor:

hads: Is there a timeline on that, if its far off I'll probably start running alpha builds :D

[05:53:45]

hads:

Alex_Gaynor: "When it's ready"

[05:54:59]

Alex_Gaynor:

hads: Heh, all my favorite projects do that, I love it because it means I know they plan to do it right /can't wait to get home to install a dev release of .21 :D

[05:55:35]

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[05:56:00]

RyeBrye:

I see the schedulesdirect.org page is updated now

[05:56:10]

Alex_Gaynor:

Yeah

[05:56:15]

RyeBrye:

Cool

[05:56:21]

tcpsyn:

the svn mythweb is incredible

[05:56:31]

tcpsyn:

so much nicer than hacking mythstreamtv

[05:56:38]

RyeBrye:

yes, it would be :)

[05:56:40]

RyeBrye:

since it works :)

[05:56:52]

tcpsyn:

I got mythstreamtv to work... but this is cleaner.

[05:57:11]

tcpsyn:

I'm a fan.

[05:57:17]

tcpsyn:

and just all around cleaner.

[05:57:54]

RyeBrye:

I know the pricing list isn't up on http://schedulesdirect.org/ yet (will be shortly, I assume) – has anyone heard what it will be?

[05:58:05]

Alex_Gaynor:

tcpsyn: So the SVN build works well? My myth needs a reinstall anyway, and I'm a linux noob

[05:58:15]

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[05:58:50]

RyeBrye:

The SVN build is bleeding edge

[05:58:52]

RyeBrye:

you may bleed

[05:59:17]

RyeBrye:

You will get more sympathy / support with the release version than with the svn version

[05:59:24]

Alex_Gaynor:

Ehh, currently channels above 12 aren't working :/ I'm bleeding as it is

[05:59:32]

hads:

Alex_Gaynor: MythTV trunk usually works very well. Bear in mind you may have problems that you'l just have to deal with yourself though.

[05:59:47]

RyeBrye:

Channels above 12 are superfluous

[05:59:52]

RyeBrye:

they were removed in build 13284

[05:59:55]

RyeBrye:

;)

[05:59:57]

hads:

Alex_Gaynor: That's a FAQ i'd say.

[06:00:11]

hads:

Wrong frequency table.

[06:00:25]

tcpsyn:

I haven't run into issues with the svn version

[06:00:25]

Tanthrix:

hads: Compared to what? The stable release that is fully supported by a 24/7 crack team of highly paid technicians?

[06:00:30]

Alex_Gaynor:

hads: Hrm, I have searched everywhere, channel frequency table is set right(actually I ahve just tried all of them)

[06:00:50]

tcpsyn:

it just works

[06:00:57]

hads:

Tanthrix: Well, good point I guess :)

[06:01:01]

adante:

haha Tanthrix

[06:01:10]

adante:

well actually

[06:01:17]

hads:

Alex_Gaynor: Then it may not be that issue, sounded like it initially.

[06:01:26]

RyeBrye:

I've had problems with svn trunk befoer

[06:01:34]

adante:

my experience has been when you complain about stuff on the stable, people say try the trunk

[06:01:35]

RyeBrye:

but I dealt with them

[06:01:50]

Tanthrix:

adante: Indeed.

[06:01:53]

adante:

when you complain about stuff on trunk, they say use stable :]

[06:01:57]

tjcarter_ is now known as tjcarter

[06:01:57]

Alex_Gaynor:

hads: Yeah thats what I thought, I'm thinking I probably borked some portion of the install in some insane way, thats why I am tempted to just reinstall witht he SVN

[06:01:58]

Tanthrix:

hehe

[06:02:02]

RyeBrye:

adante: shh!

[06:02:08]

RyeBrye:

that's the secret!

[06:02:17]

adante:

i would somehow like to have my cake and eat it

[06:04:07]

RyeBrye:

anyway... off to bed

[06:04:12]

RyeBrye:

good news about the schedulesdirect.org stuff though

[06:04:17]

** RyeBrye sleepingdirect.org **

[06:04:20]

RyeBrye:

err

[06:07:05]

xris:

:)

[06:07:14]

xris:

RyeBrye: we've been working hard for the last couple of weeks.

[06:07:22]

xris:

hope to have even more info (and account creation stuff) soon.

[06:07:37]

RyeBrye:

xris – good to hear :)

[06:07:45]

xris:

just need to get some money to change hands with us and TMS.

[06:08:39]

RyeBrye:

Don't we all

[06:09:05]

xris:

well, and I need to finish the account management code.

[06:09:07]

RyeBrye:

Can I still have a "Gold" subscription?

[06:09:07]

RyeBrye:

:)

[06:09:20]

xris:

and work with lawyers to file for 501(c) status.... and .... heh.

[06:09:20]

RyeBrye:

(whatever that meant in the first place, I don't know)

[06:09:49]

RyeBrye:

Would my schedulesdirect.org fees count as charitable donations?

[06:09:56]

xris:

no

[06:10:04]

RyeBrye:

Oh. Get better lawyers. ;)

[06:10:15]

xris:

even with (c)(3) status, the membership fees would not be tax deductible

[06:10:16]

RyeBrye:

j/k

[06:10:45]

RyeBrye:

Oh well... hopefully the amount wont be enough to make a difference for taxes anyway

[06:11:37]

RyeBrye:

xris – have you seen the rico js library?

[06:11:53]

RyeBrye:

I think the accordion part of it could work well for parts of the mythweb

[06:11:59]

xris:

looked at part of it.

[06:12:13]

RyeBrye:

The Rico 2.0 accordion control is a piece of cake to work with

[06:12:13]

xris:

I'd probably go with scriptaculous because it's a little larger.

[06:12:17]

RyeBrye:

True

[06:12:20]

xris:

both rely on prototype, though, which is already in mythweb

[06:12:35]

xris:

there's a lot of other stuff to fix first, though.

[06:12:39]

RyeBrye:

True

[06:12:40]

xris:

before UI fanciness

[06:12:43]

RyeBrye:

:)

[06:12:55]

RyeBrye:

I'm a UI gui at heart... ping me if you want some help on it

[06:13:13]

RyeBrye:

I'm busy as all hell with a new startup I'm working for now, but I will have some time in a month or two

[06:13:34]

RyeBrye:

Their site looked like hell when I came in and I'm responsible for making it look "professional"

[06:14:00]

RyeBrye:

I'd offer help with backend stuff, but I'm a Java / JSP guy :)

[06:14:49]

** RyeBrye no speak <? php ?> **

[06:14:55]

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[06:15:13]

RyeBrye:

Anyway... off to bed – thanks to all the devs for the hard work!

[06:16:03]

RyeBrye:

oh – and Xris – MythWeb is my favorite part of MythTV – so don't think I was ragging on it at all :)

[06:16:15]

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[06:17:09]

xris:

:)

[06:17:18]

** xris wishes right now that his mythbox would just work... **

[06:17:29]

xris:

random error, it's just not starting up.. wtf.

[06:19:50]

sphery:

xris: mythrename.pl rename previews patch is at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3799 , but I marked it contrib, though I think I should have made it perl/nuvexport. Just mentioning it so you'll find it.

[06:20:06]

xris:

thx

[06:20:08]

sphery:

Sorry about the wrong component

[06:20:16]

xris:

sphery: can you assign it to me?

[06:20:30]

sphery:

We non-users don't have permission... Sorry.

[06:20:48]

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[06:40:44]

** xris curses his mythbox **

[06:46:13]

xris:

ok. firewire troubles. or something.

[06:46:15]

xris:

seems happy now

[06:46:18]

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[07:02:31]

floppyears:

hi guys

[07:02:52]

floppyears:

I want to put 1gb of ram in my mythtv box which one from the following list would you suggest that is also really cheap

[07:02:55]

floppyears:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp . . . ;Order=PRICE

[07:03:41]

juski:

I'd get the blue one

[07:03:51]

floppyears:

juski: why ?

[07:04:01]

juski:

er.. cos it's blue

[07:04:45]

floppyears:

and the motherboard that I will put it in is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128034

[07:05:02]

hads:

Is it blue?

[07:05:05]

floppyears:

juski: what I'm worried is the speed of ram and how much that affects a mythtv box

[07:05:35]

juski:

unless you plan to do a lot of processing it isn't gonna affact much IMHO

[07:05:37]

chakie_work:

ah, now i have a valid channels.conf for our cable network, perhaps mythtv will grok that one

[07:06:15]

floppyears:

ok, in other words, I should go with the cheapest ?

[07:06:48]

juski:

in other words, I'm not gonna recommend anything. Buy whatever you want :D

[07:09:40]

xris:

floppyears: corsair and kingston are both good brands

[07:09:42]

Tanthrix:

Kingston valueram, all the way.

[07:09:50]

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[07:09:59]

Tanthrix:

Uber reliable

[07:11:40]

** hads agrees' **

[07:11:54]

hads:

(only if it's blue though)

[07:12:42]

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[07:13:49]

floppyears:

juski: thanks for the sincerity

[07:17:25]

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[07:20:20]

pat_:

I just use whatever is cheapest

[07:20:30]

pat_:

I don't overclock, and have never had a problem with it

[07:21:31]

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[07:34:05]

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[07:35:05]

zigovr:

hi all, I just realised : mythfilldayabse creates new channels in the "channel" table if it finds channels in the TV listing that were not listed, is there a way to prevent this ?

[07:36:02]

Dibblah:

Are you using XMLTV or DataDirect?

[07:36:17]

zigovr:

it's xmltv

[07:36:21]

zigovr:

from a file

[07:36:37]

zigovr:

using the --file option

[07:38:00]

juski:

zigovr: if there's a .xmltv file in ~/.mythtv/, edit out the channels you don't want to have inserted into the db. Or remove them from the xmltv file

[07:38:02]

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[07:38:25]

zigovr:

the problem is that I use the same file to feed two different card that don't have the same channels

[07:38:46]

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[07:38:59]

zigovr:

anyway why does mythfilldatabase creates these new channels, they are bogus, the tuner (frequency, etc ...) isn't correct

[07:39:04]

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[07:39:26]

juski:

isn't there a 'do not add new channels option' ?

[07:39:43]

zigovr:

that's what I'm looking for, but I didn't see the option

[07:40:31]

juski:

--remove-new-channels

[07:41:10]

juski:

it refers to datadirect in the help text, so it might not work the way you want it to

[07:41:15]

zigovr:

ah ok, I'm a bit confused because it talks about DataDirect, and I don't really know what it is

[07:41:29]

zigovr:

ok I'll give it a try

[07:41:32]

juski:

try it anyway

[07:42:29]

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[07:46:04]

juski:

ahh I love the sound of crying in the morning.. "One of the reasons I built a box for MythTV instead of simply getting a free Tivo was because once you built it, there were no fees attached."

[07:46:20]

Dibblah:

juski: Did you decide about that motherboard / CPU / etc?

[07:46:45]

juski:

Dibblah: no not yet. that ebay seller doesn't seem to have much of use to me right now though

[07:46:50]

zigovr:

ok, tried it , and it doesn't work, it still creates new channels :'(

[07:47:05]

Dibblah:

juski: OK :)

[07:47:09]

juski:

zigovr: sounds like you're gonna have to split your data into 2 feeds

[07:47:43]

Dibblah:

Just discovered that _none_ of the S478 heatsinks can work in the provided mount.

[07:47:50]

juski:

zigovr: the point is – if you have 2 cards which get 2 different channels, that calls for 2 different video sources, make no mistake!

[07:48:17]

Dibblah:

(It needs metalwork on the heatsink – Since the die is lower by about 1/20".

[07:48:22]

zigovr:

juski: yes they aer on two different video sources

[07:48:32]

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[07:48:42]

zigovr:

it's just the way I get my xmltv data, I get all channels in one go for both video sources

[07:48:54]

juski:

zigovr: that's got to change man

[07:49:03]

zigovr:

apparently yes

[07:49:04]

levi_home:

I'm having some weird partial lock issues with my HDHomeRun and mythtv.

[07:49:13]

juski:

normally 2 listings sources means 2 mythfilldatabase runs, one for each

[07:49:21]

juski:

Dibblah: that sucks

[07:49:34]

zigovr:

juski: yeah I do two runs, but each time on the same file

[07:49:49]

juski:

zigovr: and what's the point of that? you're gonna have to split them up

[07:49:58]

levi_home:

Anyone else here use HDHomeRun?

[07:50:01]

zigovr:

but I find this dangerous, this thing that recreates channels , because it creates bogus channels

[07:50:17]

juski:

zigovr: it's a small PITA. rework the data

[07:50:34]

juski:

levi_home: tried increasing the channel tuning timeout for the capture source in mythtv-setup hmm?

[07:50:38]

zigovr:

for example, if you make a mistake and add one channel my mistake, you end up with one bogus channel that might block your backend

[07:50:39]

hads:

Or just leave the channels in there and disable them.

[07:50:57]

zigovr:

yeah I can modify the files, it's just more work to me :)

[07:51:22]

Dibblah:

zigovr: So instead you waste your listing provider's bandwidth?

[07:51:30]

Dibblah:

You're such a considerate guy :)

[07:51:33]

levi_home:

juski: I haven't tried that, but I have tried hitting 'ok' when it says I can just wait, and the myth backend log gives continual messages about not finding the channel in TVCT

[07:51:47]

zigovr:

Dibblah: that, and also it takes so much time to grab

[07:52:04]

Dibblah:

zigovr: So fix it in your configuration.

[07:52:11]

Dibblah:

Sheesh ;)

[07:52:15]

juski:

levi_home: all this assumes the hdhomerun box is getting a good enough signal in the 1st place

[07:52:31]

levi_home:

juski: It is, it lists > 90% for these channels.

[07:52:36]

zigovr:

yeah it's fixable, I was just looking for an easy way to fix the problem, now I'm going to the hard way :)

[07:52:49]

juski:

levi_home: and you've tested it outside mythtv already so it's known to work?

[07:53:15]

juski:

levi_home: I mean.. work in linux

[07:54:07]

** Dibblah wishes the HDHR was modular, open and over here :( **

[07:54:19]

levi_home:

Well, I've done that for some channels, but not all. I'll try that.

[07:54:27]

juski:

levi_home: and of course, you're not trying to use it with a wireless connection I hope. I wouldn't trust wireless as far as I could spit, not for a PVR I want to be reliable

[07:54:42]

mchou:

Dibblah: what do you mean?

[07:55:04]

Dibblah:

DVB-t/s/c/s2/...

[07:55:12]

Dibblah:

CI slot,...

[07:55:16]

** juski wishes all cable & satellite companies would go to hell & be replaced by outfits which are more mythtv friendly **

[07:55:23]

mchou:

Dibblah: oh, ok

[07:55:28]

levi_home:

juski: Nope, using wires.

[07:55:29]

juski:

but getting real.. no such luck :)

[07:55:32]

Tanthrix:

juski: Here here!

[07:55:36]

mchou:

juski: lol, stop smoking dope

[07:55:48]

juski:

yeah I know. It's an idealistic vision ;)

[07:56:24]

juski:

Oh ffs cableco, just forget you have shareholders & help us out a bit

[07:56:31]

juski:

(as if!)

[07:56:59]

** juski wonders how long it's gonna be before we see questions about how to use BT Vision with mythtv **

[07:57:10]

juski:

"but it's IPTV!". And?

[07:57:13]

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[07:57:39]

juski:

Oh, you mean you'd missed the fact they're using propriatary equipment & transmission methods? ha!

[07:57:55]

Ruleke:

morning

[07:58:01]

juski:

mornin

[07:58:51]

** Dibblah is trying upgrading his backend to see if that's what's causing the segfault with mythtv-vid. Doubt it, though. **

[08:00:03]

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[08:01:05]

juski:

aww this poor little forum user has terabytes of recordings, but because he didn't back up his database, he ruined his box when he 'accidentally' wiped mythconverg out. whoops.

[08:01:19]

juski:

nothing to do now but gloat

[08:01:52]

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[08:05:51]

bagpuss_thecat:

anyone know of a mythtv imap mail client?

[08:05:59]

zigovr:

is there a way to have the program grid showing only channels that have programs data ?

[08:06:14]

juski:

bagpuss_thecat: there was once an unofficial plugin called mythmail, but little is known about it

[08:06:25]

juski:

zigovr: nope

[08:06:25]

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[08:06:38]

zigovr:

that's really missing then

[08:06:41]

juski:

zigovr: the source code is out there

[08:06:42]

levi_home:

juski: OK, I've verified that the channel in question works fine with hdhomerun_config and vlc

[08:06:50]

zigovr:

I know I know :)

[08:06:51]

bagpuss_thecat:

juski: I didn't think that did imap

[08:07:01]

juski:

bagpuss_thecat: then you're probably way out of luck.

[08:07:09]

bagpuss_thecat:

bah :-(

[08:07:46]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: I dont get it. why does myth need to be a mail client at all?

[08:07:49]

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[08:07:52]

juski:

anyway in addition to not doing imap, it probably won't even build against 0.20. AFAIK its homepage is down 99% of the time

[08:08:05]

Ruleke:

mythical convergence (tm) :P

[08:08:06]

bagpuss_thecat:

juski: yeah, ach well

[08:08:14]

zigovr:

what would be good, is to add a flag entry in the "channel" table, you could have flags to tell if a channel is : visible in the grid, visible in live TV, can record, possibly other things

[08:08:20]

DanielHolth:

Does anyone in here know how to take raw TS files and split them into the different programs?

[08:08:22]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: you dont think myth has enough dependencies?

[08:08:23]

juski:

email & web browsing on your TV. such silly ideas

[08:08:25]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: to avoid the laptop being on the coffee table all the time...

[08:08:31]

juski:

DanielHolth: ffmpeg ?

[08:08:40]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: uurm, that's the idea of plugins... to reduce dependancies

[08:09:02]

juski:

email & web browsing on your TV. scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll. scroll

[08:09:12]

DanielHolth:

juski maybe ffmpeg can do it, but I haven't found the argument yet.

[08:09:15]

Ruleke:

1920x1080 ? ok for me

[08:09:36]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: what's wrong with using any other mail client with myth?

[08:09:52]

juski:

even on a HDTV I can't see it being much use. the fonts still have to be a certain size to be readable from your couch

[08:09:54]

** bagpuss_thecat keeps his inbox tidy, with only about 10 messages in it at a time, with the rest in subfolders **

[08:10:05]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: lol

[08:10:27]

bagpuss_thecat:

it ensures I deal with unanswered mail :-)

[08:10:41]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: lame

[08:10:43]

juski:

I don't want to be bothered when I'm watching my recorded shows

[08:10:55]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: what would you suggest then?

[08:10:55]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: I wish you good luck

[08:11:00]

juski:

separate work & home life :D

[08:11:18]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: I just suggested any other mail client

[08:11:39]

bagpuss_thecat:

the wife will love having to start up thunderbird and using that with a remote control

[08:11:41]

mchou:

why it needs to be a myth plugin is way beyond me

[08:11:53]

juski:

with lirc you can send keypresses to any app you want, within reason

[08:12:11]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: dude, then get an ir kb

[08:12:32]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: how are you gonna answer the emails using a remote control?

[08:12:40]

juski:

and in the time taken to discuss this, you could have looked at the 'hello myth' plugin page in the wiki & built the most basic plugin ever

[08:12:45]

mchou:

this is beyond lame

[08:13:19]

bagpuss_thecat:

I have an infrared keyboard already, and would use it when necessary. I just think it's equally lame that I have to start up a monstrosity of an email program just to check mail

[08:13:21]

mchou:

it's downright STUPID

[08:13:38]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: just cos you disagree doesn't give you the right to insult others

[08:13:43]

mchou:

mchou: ever heard of mailx?

[08:13:53]

mchou:

it aint big

[08:14:28]

bagpuss_thecat:

yeah, console usage rocks on the TV...

[08:14:45]

** bagpuss_thecat could script it given time **

[08:14:57]

Ruleke:

Can't we make this an official flame match and start getting odds on the outcome ?

[08:15:01]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: lol. it's better than gui text on the TV, trust me

[08:15:19]

mchou:

ctrl-alt-f2

[08:15:34]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: I presume you use aalib for everything too?

[08:15:40]

bagpuss_thecat:

brb

[08:15:51]

Ruleke:

dingding that was round1

[08:15:58]

mchou:

who said anything about aalib?

[08:16:31]

mchou:

guy is off his rocker

[08:16:38]

Dibblah:

Deep joy. The frontend for -vid now dies on startup on my backend too.

[08:16:44]

mchou:

bats in the belfry

[08:16:54]

Dibblah:

In a different way, which is not comforting.

[08:17:36]

mchou:

why even mention aalib when ctrl-alt-fx is available?

[08:17:39]

mchou:

wtf

[08:18:30]

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[08:19:01]

** bagpuss_thecat returns from doing some work for a change **

[08:19:16]

Ruleke:

round2 dingding

[08:19:23]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: I know how to switch to a vt

[08:19:30]

bagpuss_thecat:

it was called a joke

[08:19:33]

Dibblah:

Plugins aren't compatible between trunk and -vid :(

[08:19:34]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: you'll be more productive if you jump out the window

[08:20:09]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: do you always switch to insults and the like when you disagree?

[08:20:14]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: even your so called jokes are idiotic

[08:20:41]

bagpuss_thecat:

if you'd just stuck with "email on myth would suck. The fonts would be unintelligable and the ui would be crap" then we'd all be happy

[08:21:02]

bagpuss_thecat:

why continue the tirade of pish?

[08:21:11]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: glad you came to that conclusion yourself

[08:21:32]

bagpuss_thecat:

mchou: I came to the conclusion based on the comments you made yourself

[08:21:57]

Ruleke:

bagpuss_thecat: you expected a well structured argument and civil discussion on _irc_ ? muhaha

[08:21:57]

mchou:

bagpuss_thecat: then I'm glad you agree with my assessment :)

[08:22:00]

Ruleke:

:)

[08:22:11]

bagpuss_thecat:

Ruleke: I thought things had changed since the 90s :-)

[08:22:15]

Ruleke:

nah

[08:22:18]

Ruleke:

only the people

[08:22:25]

bagpuss_thecat:

lol

[08:22:26]

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[08:31:27]

zigovr:

is it possible to have two channels on two different video source that are considered as the same channel (that is they have the same TV guide program and the sceduler will record only on one of them) ?

[08:34:02]

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[08:41:59]

floppyears:

hi

[08:42:07]

floppyears:

have any of you guys used mwave to buy components ?

[08:42:22]

floppyears:

what did you think about them ? reliability, satisfaction, etc

[08:46:17]

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[09:00:05]

floppyears:

wohoooo

[09:00:27]

floppyears:

I just ordered the components for my new mythtv box, can't wait for them to arrive so that I can assemble it

[09:01:23]

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[09:15:20]

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[09:15:58]

juski:

I buy stuff in person these days whenever I can

[09:16:38]

juski:

not that returning things will be any easier of course, but it avoids using stupid shipping companies

[09:16:41]

Saviq:

hello guys, I couldn't find the info nowhere – is it possible to use mythtv with dvb card tv-out? like technotrend has?

[09:17:45]

Dagmar:

So why was it on cnn's site?

[09:17:56]

Saviq:

so that everything that is to be played would go out through the dvb card's tv-out?

[09:17:58]

Dagmar:

Why were you even looking on CNN's site for it

[09:18:14]

Dagmar:

Right. Only if nothing is not played, never.

[09:19:10]

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[09:19:21]

juski:

Saviq: mythtv doesn't work with FF DVB card TV outputs. they're lame

[09:19:40]

juski:

stick to VDR if you want that

[09:20:08]

Saviq:

thanks then

[09:21:05]

juski:

how the effinelle any project's UI gets improved when it's limited to a crappy framebuffer is beyond my comprehension

[09:21:26]

juski:

of course, some people prefer those butt ugly STB skins

[09:22:06]

Dibblah:

Eh? Single color skins are the way of the future!

[09:22:16]

Dibblah:

Look – They use them on Star Trek!

[09:22:25]

Dibblah:

;)

[09:22:29]

Dagmar:

Huh?

[09:22:32]

Dagmar:

No they don't.

[09:23:01]

Dibblah:

LCARS is primarily a small selection of colors, I mean.

[09:23:23]

juski:

good themes aren't exactly awash with rainbow colours either

[09:23:29]

Dagmar:

Yeah, it's mainly what amounts to primitive colors for computers

[09:23:30]

juski:

just look at leafers-wide ;)

[09:23:55]

** gbee wonders if Linux will ever escape the stereotypes **

[09:24:11]

Dagmar:

Pretty much so long as you stay with 00, 33, 66, 99, CC, and FF you can't step outside the LCARS palette

[09:24:17]

** juski hugs a noob & tells him he'll get to work on his feature request right away **

[09:24:28]

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[09:24:30]

Dibblah:

Anyone any good at reading backtraces?

[09:24:44]

gbee:

Dibblah: depends

[09:24:46]

Dibblah:

I appear to have developed BT dyslexia.

[09:24:55]

Dibblah:

My post to the ML.

[09:24:59]

juski:

gbee: I'm not gonna go about wrapping people in cotton wool like ubuntu do

[09:25:01]

Dibblah:

-dev

[09:25:26]

gbee:

juski: was referring to the Star Trek banter ;)

[09:25:39]

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[09:25:57]

juski:

yeah but I've had an idea

[09:26:14]

Dagmar:

gbee: It'll happen when people stop being so stupid that all it takes is three extra IQ points to confuse them

[09:26:15]

juski:

I'll just tell people who ask for stupid things that I'm working on it

[09:26:31]

Dibblah:

I'd be betting it's something busted in the OGL support on this i945.

[09:26:40]

Dagmar:

*hiss*

[09:26:45]

gbee:

juski: a lot easier, sure :)

[09:26:46]

Dagmar:

I no longer like the intel drivers

[09:26:56]

Dibblah:

Why?

[09:27:02]

Dagmar:

My notebook is completely buggered by i915gm

[09:27:14]

Dagmar:

xrdb keeps screwing up and going zombie, and it's driving me mad

[09:27:21]

Dibblah:

Are you using 2.1.0?

[09:27:22]

floppyears:

juski: I would buy things in person, but the components that I wanted, I couldn't find at frys

[09:27:27]

Dibblah:

(Intel drivers)

[09:27:29]

floppyears:

and there's no other good computer store around here :(

[09:27:36]

Dagmar:

I'm about to. I'm compiling the thing. I'm dropping back and punting with i810 first

[09:27:53]

gbee:

Dibblah: when the email finally filters through I'll take a look :)

[09:27:57]

juski:

there's no good computer store around here either. only unscrupulous places owned by very rich people

[09:28:02]

Dibblah:

gbee: Thanks.

[09:28:05]

Dagmar:

I gotta hassle Patrick Volkerding to *not* do what he did with the 12.0 release packages when he updates to that version

[09:28:46]

Dagmar:

Don't ask me why, but for some insane reason in the xf86-video-intel-2.0.0 package he made, he is changing /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/i810_drv.so to a symlink that points to intel_drv.so

[09:29:08]

** gbee isn't going to touch that Amazon Album art grabber with a barge pole **

[09:29:16]

Dibblah:

That's not the package, afaik.

[09:29:33]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: See, there's one of the problems that's the reason I'm rebuilding them both.

[09:29:36]

Dibblah:

(I see that here as well)

[09:29:40]

juski:

gbee: it'd be ok to put it (or a link to it) in the wiki I spose

[09:30:17]

juski:

it's quite handy. actually I have a paid-for program (MediaMonkey) which grabs albumart from amazon

[09:30:19]

gbee:

juski: that's fine

[09:30:46]

** Dibblah really, really needs to get off Gentoo for FEs. **

[09:31:03]

juski:

I think they might even have an API for it with certain conditions attached.. like basically show the page & offer the user the chance to buy it

[09:31:07]

Dibblah:

However, it is just *too easy* to install for netbooting :(

[09:31:16]

juski:

Dibblah: so is any distro

[09:31:17]

gbee:

if someone comes up with a signed letter from Amazon allowing us to use their album art then I'll commit it, otherwise I'll leave it for someone else

[09:31:54]

juski:

gbee: heheheh. anyway it's my fault. I suggested he raise a ticket fer it

[09:31:59]

sphery:

gbee: Anduin did some research on the licensing before he took the Amazon movie poster part out of imdb.pl. He might be able to give info that allows it to be closed invalid for licensing reasons.

[09:32:36]

Dibblah:

gbee: Why not. After all, there's only 423 active tickets :(

[09:33:11]

gbee:

an opensource albumart repo/lookup along the lines of CDDB would be nice, but messy to get the legal side sorted

[09:33:16]

sphery:

Dagmar: Why don't you want to use intel driver?

[09:33:30]

Dagmar:

Becuase it's fucked

[09:33:42]

floppyears:

why not just require users to get an amazon key so that they can get album art ?

[09:34:13]

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[09:34:16]

sphery:

Oh. All I know of it is that the i810 has a bug that affects some Myth users that is fixed by switching to intel. Just wondered.

[09:34:42]

gbee:

that time of year again when I have to fill out the voter registration form, it's prefilled but some idiot has obviously decided that "Great Britain" is a nationality

[09:34:56]

Dagmar:

Well, at the moment I've been unable to even actually try to use the i810 driver because Slackware 12 has some dim things going on in it's packages

[09:37:07]

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[09:37:17]

gbee:

Dibblah: we need more devs, tickets are opened faster than they can be closed, I managed to get it down below 380 not that long ago but that took a large percentage of my free time

[09:37:30]

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[09:38:02]

Dibblah:

Unfortunately, the code base isn't beginner friendly.

[09:38:08]

Dibblah:

It's waay too wide.

[09:38:26]

slaine_:

too wide ?

[09:39:07]

gbee:

slaine_: too complicated because of the massive scope of the project

[09:39:13]

Dibblah:

Everything is interdependent.

[09:39:17]

slaine_:

Ah

[09:39:55]

Dibblah:

_and_ there's too much configurability.

[09:40:10]

Dibblah:

Which causes code bloat.

[09:40:19]

Dibblah:

And corner cases.

[09:40:36]

Dagmar:

It would help if maybe people added at least one line of useful comments to the code each day they make edits

[09:41:02]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: No. Good code should read without comments.

[09:41:15]

Dibblah:

/* Voodoo here */ helps noone.

[09:41:30]

Ruleke:

some of it is voodoo :P

[09:41:33]

Dagmar:

Bullshit

[09:41:40]

sphery:

And you can't take out even the useless settings (like "Time offset for thumbnail preview images") because of inertia--too many users whine.

[09:41:52]

Dagmar:

...and you're basically trying to claim Myth is 100% good code

[09:42:05]

Dibblah:

So rewrite the code.

[09:42:19]

sphery:

It only takes 42 lines of Perl code.

[09:42:28]

Dagmar:

I'd submit nothing but patches containing comments, if I knew what the hell more of it actually did

[09:42:52]

Dagmar:

So, now we've got the nasty cycle in a nutshell

[09:43:09]

Dibblah:

Comments are the wrong way to go.

[09:43:10]

gbee:

a lot of it is obvious i.e. SetBookmark()

[09:43:11]

Dagmar:

Code isn't commented, keeping new coders from being able to do anything without spending an age reverse-engineering everything...

[09:43:20]

Dagmar:

Devs swear up and down good code doesn't need comments.

[09:43:21]

Dagmar:

nothing happens.

[09:43:44]

Dibblah:

If the code isn't self-documenting, the comments *will* get (or even start out) wrong.

[09:43:47]

Dagmar:

gbee: Yeah, but has anyone even got a cocktail napkin explaining the organization of some of the data structures?

[09:44:05]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: The point is that comments should be unambigious and say what code _should_ do.

[09:44:34]

Dagmar:

Without it, anyone coming along later has to assume that's going on based on what the code DOES do, even if what the code is doing isn't what it's supposed to be doing.

[09:45:06]

Dibblah:

Preview generation offset can be useful. But it would be better to do it as something else.

[09:45:15]

Dibblah:

An example is pre-roll.

[09:45:22]

juski:

gbee: I thought things have been looking up lately, with plenty of tickets with patches already attached

[09:45:42]

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[09:45:43]

juski:

it's starting to boil my wee to see people commenting in tickets with 'me too' crap

[09:45:47]

Dibblah:

Patches are no good unless they can be trusted.

[09:46:05]

juski:

Dibblah: it's better than just bare faced feature requests though

[09:46:07]

Dibblah:

And the majority of patch tickets are first-timers.

[09:46:18]

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[09:46:49]

juski:

the one single google SoC project we really needed to come to fruition is the settings rationalisation stuff

[09:46:52]

sphery:

I'd say it isn't useful because preview generation takes into account a) pre-roll and start early, b) commflag list, c) cut list, and d) Myth can be configured to use bookmark location for preview generation

[09:47:13]

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[09:47:54]

juski:

btw what happenned to all the SoC people? are they hiding under rocks out of the spotlight of failure? ;)

[09:47:57]

sphery:

And, after that, any number you put may or may not be a good spot for a preview, but no one number will be "right" (and if one is the best number, no one will be able to find out what it is)

[09:48:19]

Dibblah:

sphery: Yeah, true.

[09:48:21]

sphery:

But I'd argue there isn't a one best number

[09:48:25]

Dagmar:

"If the code isn't self-documenting, the comments *will* get (or even start out) wrong."

[09:48:38]

gbee:

I can close feature requests in a few seconds, but patches require review and that doesn't just mean the code in the patch, but the rationalisation behind the feature and the context of the code changes

[09:49:14]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: ?

[09:49:16]

Dagmar:

I think that's possibly one of the dumbest things I've heard in 20+ years.

[09:49:23]

sphery:

And testing of the patch--including testing cases that many "part-time" devs don't consider (i.e. different frontend/backend configurations, etc.)

[09:49:35]

Dagmar:

I just didnt' even know how to get my head around how wrong that was for several minutes

[09:49:56]

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[09:49:57]

sphery:

Generally, writing the patch takes much less time than properly testing the patch.

[09:50:27]

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[09:50:42]

gbee:

I could commit a mfdb patch pretty quickly because I've got a clear idea of what is right/wrong there, but I can't really apply a patch to the NuppelVideoRecorder because I'd have to sit down and get a basic grip on that code first

[09:51:13]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: Okay. Why?

[09:51:39]

Dagmar:

Because if someone can't say what they're going to do in the language they were born to, then they don't stand a realistic chance of being able to code it.

[09:52:13]

sphery:

Comments shouldn't say what the code does--that's what the code is for. The comments should say why.

[09:52:27]

Dagmar:

...and if they can't say it in the language they were born to, they don't stand much chance of explaining it to anyone else, either.

[09:52:47]

Ruleke:

people are born with language now ?

[09:52:58]

Dagmar:

Ruleke: Did I say "born with"?

[09:53:10]

Ruleke:

well to a specific language then :)

[09:53:29]

Dagmar:

sphery: No, comments should say the former more than the latter. The only time to explain why is when something inobvious has been done

[09:54:19]

sphery:

So, you're saying I should write a couple of English-language lines that say the exact same thing as a couple of C/C++ lines?

[09:54:24]

sphery:

I disagree.

[09:55:03]

Dagmar:

Ferinstance, in bash scripting, FOO="${BAR:+BAR }blah" instead of FOO="$BAR blah" might be because someone's incredibly anal-retentive, or because what FOO is being passed to is sensitive about superfluous whitespace

[09:55:24]

Dagmar:

sphery: No, I'm saying a couple of English lines should prefix sections of code.

[09:55:34]

Dagmar:

sphery: Example: http://dagmar.droplinegnome.org/dbs/dropline- . . . h-0.99.6.txt

[09:56:03]

Dagmar:

In some places the comments are longer than the function they're describing, but for the most part they're just there to explain what the functions are supposed to do.

[09:56:12]

Dibblah:

That's a dumb layer of verbosity.

[09:56:26]

Dagmar:

No, it's a layer of verbosity meant to avoid confusion

[09:57:03]

Dagmar:

sanifysource() might well mean different things to different people, so below it is the comment "This routine merely chowns, chmods, and touches the source files."

[09:57:16]

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[09:57:21]

Dagmar:

...which keeps people from using it for whatever they think the name of the function might mean, for one example

[09:57:56]

Ruleke:

I guess it's hard believing people that intend to use the function can't understand what it does by reading it ?

[09:58:01]

sphery:

And doesn't tell them why they should use it...

[09:58:08]

Dagmar:

releasescripts() contains a passage of comments to explain inobviousness

[09:58:31]

Dibblah:

Okay. And then some other _not so careful_ dev adds stuff to work around filesystem limitations.

[09:58:46]

Dibblah:

Which means that sometimes it doesn't chown or chmod.

[09:58:47]

Dagmar:

sphery: They technically don't have to, but ther'es plenty of packages that contain files not owned by the uid.group that they should be installed to the filesystem with, and that use cp instead of install to do the installation.

[09:58:52]

Dibblah:

Then the comment is _wrong_.

[09:58:56]

Dagmar:

...among other problems.

[09:59:13]

sphery:

Dagmar: IMHO, that should be in the comments.

[09:59:23]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: yes, sure, if you change the code without changing the comments, it's still a screwup

[09:59:37]

Dibblah:

So why duplicate the effort?

[09:59:46]

Dibblah:

The _code_ should explain the code.

[09:59:49]

Dagmar:

sphery: Then the comments would be leaning into the realm of "telling people how to actually do what they should already know how to do "

[10:00:11]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Excepting that the code isn't ever going to be as easy to read as common spoken language

[10:00:23]

Dibblah:

_to native english speakers_

[10:00:24]

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[10:00:26]

Dagmar:

That BUGS HAPPEN should be proof enough that this is the case

[10:00:33]

sphery:

The code says what it does. Nothing tells why, so whereas I'm supposing that a person can read the code they choose to use, you're supposing people already know how/when/why to use the code.

[10:00:57]

Dagmar:

I see, so you're saying there's other spoken languages which are actually harder to use by people who were taught them from birth, than say, C.

[10:01:27]

Dibblah:

Eh? I'm saying not everyone is a native English speaker.

[10:01:54]

Dagmar:

At any rate, if you want to lower the angle of the learning curve for new devs to work on Myth, then start adding some comments to explain what these huge passages of obscurely named pointer references do

[10:02:42]

Dibblah:

Ooooor... Rename the "obscurely named pointer references".

[10:03:42]

Dagmar:

...among other things.

[10:06:11]

juski:

gbee: on a different, more cheery note I've been thinking about what chutt said yesterday about replacing the nasty qt widgets with our own. primarily been thinking about how best to achieve the new containers – i.e. put them in themes themselves, or have a more generic 'popupbox.xml' which themes can then override if somebody so desires

[10:06:52]

juski:

I think the latter would be the best way to go, and probably wouldn't result in much (if any) theme breakage

[10:07:14]

juski:

something I'd really like to have a crack at, at some point

[10:08:03]

juski:

I really do hate those qt widgets

[10:08:07]

gbee:

sounds good

[10:08:40]

juski:

spend all that time making nice graphics, then qt comes along & has a poo on the screen

[10:09:51]

gbee:

a generic popup theme would work or at least some generic fallback stuff for popups within the theme so you don't need to define every single one (there are a lot)

[10:10:18]

juski:

what defines the dimensions of most of them? the widest text element?

[10:11:03]

gbee:

juski: of the ones I've look at it was the widest text element

[10:11:28]

juski:

I noticed when I changed the qt text size, they got bigger, so that figures

[10:11:56]

juski:

I'll put it on my list next to 'make the setup screens obey the safe area rule'

[10:12:24]

gbee:

the existing myth widgets for popups suck, I don't know if chutt has created some nicer ones in mythui

[10:12:47]

juski:

actually there's something else I've noticed. on some setup screens, everything is well within the screen boundary. in others, there's stuff right at the edge. seems inconsistent

[10:13:00]

juski:

maybe the 'others' are for plugins

[10:13:37]

gbee:

take MythPopupBox (or whatever it's called) which is based around a little known QT widget for vertical dialogs making it extremely unflexible

[10:14:01]

gbee:

err, inflexible

[10:14:09]

Dagmar:

So basically, all these fuckups in the code were actually what the programmer *meant* to do

[10:14:20]

juski:

I've seen some stuff in mythui I can't find any reference to elsewhere, so maybe they're these new things :)

[10:14:27]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: Not at all.

[10:14:33]

Dagmar:

...since the code is quite obviously self-documenting, the coders *meant* to have these off-by-one and fencepost errors

[10:14:39]

Dagmar:

That's what you're claiming

[10:14:44]

Dibblah:

No, it's not.

[10:14:53]

Dagmar:

Or the occasional place where the wrong db entry is changed or pulled up

[10:15:01]

juski:

Dagmar: that's certainly the case in some of the UI code. managedtreelist, for one

[10:15:01]

Dagmar:

THey wrote it, it's self-documenting so it explains itself

[10:15:14]

Dibblah:

I'm not claiming that the code is *correct* – I'm just claiming that documenting doesn't magically fix bugs.

[10:15:32]

Dagmar:

Beyond a certain level of complexity, commenting is necessary

[10:15:38]

Dibblah:

Agreed.

[10:15:39]

Dagmar:

...and Myth is way beyond that minimum point.

[10:15:42]

juski:

the bits I've looked at, I can mostly understand, so either I'm very clever or it's not that hard

[10:16:00]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: In the ffmpeg decode stuff, yes, it is.

[10:16:04]

juski:

and I don't think I'm very clever

[10:16:09]

Dibblah:

Everywhere else, most of it is OK.

[10:16:11]

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[10:16:24]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: Show us an example of what you mean.

[10:16:27]

Dagmar:

Yeah, and from that I have to agree that the simpler parts of the code are correct because they actually work like they're supposed to

[10:17:16]

Dagmar:

How many people are using xvattr to eliminate the "blue line" problem?

[10:17:42]

Dagmar:

Most people have been setting the overlay color to black for so long that if you took it out of their startup scripts they'd think it was a new bug

[10:17:52]

Dagmar:

...but it's a classic off-by-one error

[10:18:03]

Dibblah:

Not exactly.

[10:18:42]

Dibblah:

Are you talking about when bob interlace is enabled?

[10:18:53]

Dagmar:

No, I'm talking about _all the time_

[10:19:15]

Dibblah:

I haven't seen that bug in years.

[10:19:26]

Dagmar:

It was in 0.19 all over

[10:19:36]

Dibblah:

And no, I don't set the overlay color.

[10:19:37]

juski:

you'd only ever see it if you weren't using overscan

[10:20:32]

Dagmar:

juski: Except it would readily do it to the little preview window

[10:20:46]

Dibblah:

Not on .19, it wouldn't.

[10:21:00]

Dagmar:

Yes, it would.

[10:21:04]

Dagmar:

I saw it on mine

[10:21:12]

Dagmar:

I saw it on friend's boxes

[10:21:38]

Dagmar:

I actually dug around in the X docs until I found the command that I remembered would let me set the overlay color so that I could make it go away.

[10:21:39]

Dibblah:

Eh? The preview window wasn't overlayed, was it, until recently?

[10:21:53]

gbee:

not an open bug that I'm aware of

[10:22:01]

juski:

yeah hence it being screwed for ATI users :-0

[10:22:48]

juski:

if $driver like "%ati%" { eat up all ram & die }

[10:23:01]

Dagmar:

lol

[10:27:19]

juski:

hahaha. the reason our new card's composite vid output is cursed with interlace flicker is 2-fold. 1. the grpahics & fonts aren't antialiased. 2. the encoder used has no flicker filter. <guffaw>

[10:27:54]

juski:

we shoulda stayed with the chip from Focus, the fs454 TV encoder

[10:28:08]

juski:

that 'cost saving' is gonna cost us. oops

[10:28:38]

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[10:28:50]

Dibblah:

How much processing power in the box?

[10:29:32]

juski:

put it this way, even without antialiasing graphics, it's slow as pain

[10:30:00]

Dibblah:

Do you need to scale the graphics / fonts?

[10:30:18]

Dibblah:

If not, just pre-anti-alias them.

[10:30:27]

juski:

they're not bitmaps

[10:30:33]

Dibblah:

Oh. Bugger.

[10:30:38]

juski:

yeah. bugger

[10:30:44]

Dibblah:

That's gonna be expensive :)

[10:30:58]

Dibblah:

Do you get to choose the output monitor?

[10:31:11]

juski:

no, it's kind of a customer requirement

[10:31:16]

** Dibblah thinks big, long persistance phosphor tube :) **

[10:31:28]

juski:

Dibblah: not much good for cctv though

[10:31:49]

Dibblah:

Good luck with that :)

[10:31:55]

juski:

heheh. indeed

[10:32:26]

juski:

our PHBs are beyond the pale, they really are

[10:32:50]

Dibblah:

Heh. At least you don't have the "component optimisation" step.

[10:33:26]

Dibblah:

Before final run production, try removing components. If the device still works, it was overspecced and the component can be removed.

[10:34:10]

juski:

rofl

[10:34:17]

Dagmar:

I know how to fix that one

[10:34:34]

Dagmar:

Fake a test and remove the CPU from a machine while it's running with canned video feed going to the display from elsewhere

[10:35:27]

juski:

I know what they have to do to fix it, but nothing short of a re-spin to bring the fs454 back will do

[10:36:36]

Dibblah:

Or "reduce customer expectations".

[10:36:57]

juski:

yeah. like that's gonna happen. we're sunk

[10:39:18]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: I'm sure I saw a ticket related to the overlay positioning. But I can't find it now.

[10:39:33]

Dibblah:

I was fairly sure it was fixed.

[10:39:49]

Dibblah:

Do you still see it in trunk?

[10:47:18]

juski:

there's a user called mongrol here.. "no offense mate but i really need to find someone who is actually using this setup". smack!

[10:49:32]

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[11:07:49]

juski:

hmm. see fluendo have been causing a stir at LW again. maybe they've been conveniently glossing over the fact their stuff requires paid-for closed source plugins to be any *real* use

[11:08:24]

slaine_:

juski, where'd you see that ?

[11:08:43]

slaine_:

I'd be worried if I where fluendo, all their best dev's have buggered off

[11:09:07]

juski:

some hack at El Reg suggested everybody 'check them out'

[11:09:32]

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[11:09:58]

tjcarter:

fluendo is what?

[11:10:12]

slaine_:

Ah,Ashlee Vance

[11:10:42]

juski:

maybe they're not all bad. the mpeg playback plugin is but 16 Euro, less than you'd pay some some lame windows dvd player software

[11:11:04]

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[11:11:33]

juski:

my beef is that they claim to be OSS, but the essential stuff – the real organs that do real work.. they're closed & not free

[11:12:09]

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[11:16:15]

juski:

it'd be really funny if fluendo were found to be violating the GPL

[11:17:00]

juski:

not very likely though

[11:17:18]

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[11:17:28]

tjcarter:

that's the myth thing that uses the airmouse and whatnot?

[11:17:50]

tjcarter:

or am I thinking other thing?

[11:18:09]

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[11:18:47]

juski:

might not be too bad an idea – I mean these things *are* commercially developed & companies want their cut (which is deemed to be fair in our capitalist society). thinking about it, the gstreamer idea is quite noble

[11:19:43]

juski:

indeed it might be the only way support for some media/stream types can be brought to linux. I can't see many people sticking their necks out to bring hd-dvd playback to linux properly

[11:20:42]

anykey_:

the problem with hd-dvd/blueray is that you could copy them ...

[11:21:29]

juski:

not if the software wouldn't let you

[11:21:31]

tjcarter:

I can see DVD Jon sticking his neck out to do it improperly ;)

[11:22:36]

juski:

you could conceivably copy discs at home anyway if you had the right gear

[11:22:48]

juski:

without a PC

[11:23:09]

tjcarter:

both bluray and hddvd have already been cracked =)

[11:26:29]

juski:

anyway, I'm starting to think that somebody has to pay for propriatary codecs. I mean if a DVD player you can buy in the shops has the licence fees already paid, why not linux too? I've always felt a bit like a criminal using some software tools

[11:26:56]

juski:

if the price is small, I definitely wouldn't mind paying

[11:29:05]

juski:

oh FFS there's now an online petition on the government website to 'force' the BBC to produce an open source player

[11:29:26]

juski:

what a bloody waste of taxpayers money that e-petition thing is proving to be

[11:30:25]

jduggan:

heh

[11:30:25]

quicksilver:

I don't think it's a waste of money

[11:30:41]

jduggan:

its brought media attention to an issue that otherwise wouldnt have hit the public eye

[11:30:51]

quicksilver:

having another way of collecting voter opinions is a good thing

[11:30:53]

jduggan:

so for that reason, i can see it being a good thing

[11:31:28]

quicksilver:

and it is quite fucked up to release shows which I've paid for, in a proprietary format I can't access with any of my 4 computers.

[11:31:44]

jduggan:

i installed windows just to try that iplayer on a 1.2ghz machine and it fails miserably

[11:32:00]

jduggan:

:\

[11:34:28]

tjcarter:

I usually use Windows to crack DRM ;)

[11:34:41]

juski:

jduggan: it's being misused though. A petition to force the BBC to open source their player? ffs

[11:34:45]

tjcarter:

But then, that's only because tools for doing it on my Mac are more rare.

[11:35:55]

juski:

IIRC there was even one which wanted Barry Scott's Cillit Bang ads to be abolished. Well, if there wasn't, there's dozens of even more frivolous ones

[11:36:08]

quicksilver:

juski: I don't see how that's misuse

[11:36:18]

quicksilver:

juski: the BBC are misusing what is (essentially) a tax

[11:36:30]

quicksilver:

juski: it's not that surprising to ask the government to intervene

[11:36:33]

juski:

I don't even WANT it, yet I have to pay for it?

[11:36:49]

quicksilver:

you already paid for them to produce this windows player

[11:36:54]

juski:

might start a petition to have it abolished then

[11:37:05]

quicksilver:

do so :)

[11:37:08]

juski:

I don't want to pay for CBBC or Cbeebies either, or BBC sport

[11:38:48]

juski:

anyway it just proves what a joke the defectivebydesign lot are

[11:38:55]

juski:

their altruism doesn't work ffs

[11:40:40]

gbee:

think we could live without News24 too, at one point 24 hour news made some sense but given how they now devote hours to a single news item I think we'd be better off going back to the 30minute news programme which at least covered all the stories

[11:41:08]

juski:

yup

[11:41:33]

juski:

rolling news. I catch the news before I leave the house, and watch it (sometimes) when I get home. same stories

[11:42:38]

juski:

anyway who really cares that we can't watch crap quality video of a show we missed because we're too thick to set mythtv to record it already? ;)

[11:43:13]

juski:

it's hardly as if you CAN actually miss anything the BBC shows, cos they repeat it all so often anyway goddamnit

[11:43:29]

juski:

case closed

[11:44:17]

juski:

eep. now there's a 'alternatives to supporting schedulesdirect' thread on -users. FFS they don't know when people are on their side do they?

[11:47:41]

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[11:48:19]

gbee:

let them discuss the alternatives, if they manage to come up with anything as reliable, free and of high quality then I'd be very suprised – if anything their fruitless search will only convince everybody that schedulesdirect is the only real choice

[11:49:58]

juski:

pfft. linux users :-\

[11:51:25]

TSCHAK:

juski, i already sent an email thanking isaac + the team for their hard work on schedulesdirect.

[11:51:26]

gbee:

OpenSource software needs to free itself of the minority who think that Open Source means Free, at the end of the day those leechers are going to kill linux stone dead

[11:52:06]

juski:

if software patent suits ever catch on, it's doomed for sure

[11:52:16]

TSCHAK:

well, free software doesn't mean free as in beer

[11:52:26]

TSCHAK:

it's OKAY for free software people to ask for money for services

[11:52:40]

TSCHAK:

god damn, even RMS gave a ($##@($#@ example of this in the GPL itself.

[11:53:09]

TSCHAK:

(a "copying" fee for the distribution media)

[11:53:25]

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[11:53:32]

TSCHAK:

of course.....most people don't know how to read, do they?

[11:59:26]

gbee:

I really don't understand how anyone thought that schedulesdirect would be free? Did they think that some rich altruist would pay the licensing, legal and hardware costs? What about the ongoing bandwidth charges for such a service? It's not as though we're talking about a few hundred dollars here, it's thousands

[12:00:13]

TSCHAK:

gbee, bingo

[12:00:21]

gbee:

AFAIK they are only asking users to pay a tiny amount per month, just enough to cover those costs

[12:00:26]

TSCHAK:

gbee, i went off on somebody yesterday with that exact reasoning.

[12:00:53]

TSCHAK:

gbee, and it went completely over his head....even AFTER I had painstakingly described the logistics.

[12:00:55]

gbee:

all this talk about 'lifetime' subscriptions ignores the fact that these aren't one-off costs either

[12:01:00]

TSCHAK:

gbee, some people just stupid.

[12:02:12]

TSCHAK:

basically at the bottom of my mail, I told them... "Regardless of what some people might say. You did the right thing. Thank you."

[12:04:52]

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[12:05:50]

juski:

yeah those 'lifetime' subs – how many distraught widows are gonna be going up to Tivo & saying "I lost my hubby, and now you're taking away the TV guide data? you bastards" ;)

[12:06:49]

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[12:10:38]

jarle:

is there a list somewhere of whick channels the various xmltv grabbers supply epg for?

[12:10:46]

jarle:

which...

[12:10:52]

juski:

hrm I thought there was an 'anti signature' thing on those epetitions

[12:11:00]

juski:

jarle: nope

[12:12:14]

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[12:12:37]

jarle:

juski: seems like most of my channels only have now/next shows in EIT so I guess I have to setup my own xmltv file to suit my needs...

[12:14:17]

juski:

hmm. for some reason EPG data seems to be a hot topic of late. can't possibly think why

[12:14:55]

jarle:

juski: maybe because zapit is going down in the US?

[12:15:17]

juski:

is it? ZOMG! Calamity!

[12:15:29]

gbee:

maybe now would be a good time to ask for more people to test the latest patch for -fixes attached to #1777

[12:16:42]

juski:

I can test that later

[12:17:24]

GreyFoxx:

jarle: Almost all localities only have now/next and some have 1–2 days but no more

[12:17:35]

GreyFoxx:

I can only think of a tiny handfull that have more than that

[12:17:45]

juski:

we get 7 days in the UK. soon to be 14 allegedly

[12:18:31]

jarle:

juski: I only get now/next on Zone Reality for example...

[12:19:38]

jarle:

GreyFoxx: lousy EIT might be a good kick in the but for me to put together a good xmltv list...

[12:19:49]

jarle:

butt..

[12:20:25]

juski:

yeah so long as you're not violating anybody's usage terms & conditions, go ahead

[12:20:45]

** GreyFoxx plans to whip out his credit card and pay for listings :) **

[12:21:46]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: See the anti-eit conspiracy theories on -users?

[12:22:04]

gbee:

must be more places than the UK where EIT is useful

[12:22:05]

GreyFoxx:

apparently I'm the one intentionally breaking dishnet eith now muahgahgahha

[12:22:37]

Ruleke:

naughty

[12:22:56]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: no, I'm not subscribed. I read a few messages through the archive but that was more than enough for me ;)

[12:23:08]

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[12:23:12]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: It's ridiculous

[12:23:31]

GreyFoxx:

I have to force myself to not reply anymore as I will just fan the flames

[12:23:42]

juski:

repeat after me.. in the voice of Comic Book Guy.. "paypal are THE worst online payment system. EVER!" :-P

[12:25:09]

juski:

that lot of trolls wouldn't see the good side of anything, no matter how nice somebody was being to them. let em rot

[12:25:30]

GreyFoxx:

especially if someone wanted them to pay pennies a day for listings data :)

[12:25:48]

GreyFoxx:

477 d4t4 mu5t b3 fr33!

[12:26:42]

juski:

were hippies as bad as that lot?

[12:26:50]

juski:

I mean, apart from the smell

[12:27:17]

GreyFoxx:

no cause they were passive for the most part

[12:28:13]

Ruleke:

att ?

[12:28:25]

GreyFoxx:

all

[12:28:34]

Ruleke:

ah 411 ;)

[12:28:54]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, my brain now pretends that 1 doesn't exist on a regular basis :)

[12:29:11]

opello_ is now known as opello

[12:29:16]

Ruleke:

hehe

[12:29:28]

Ruleke:

reminds me of Bender having nightmares about 2's

[12:29:36]

juski:

gbee: that ticket isn't making it easy to get that diff

[12:30:22]

gbee:

using paypal actually reduces the cost of any possible subscription. The alternative is a merchant account which has setup fees and charges attached, the transaction % is much better than paypal either

[12:30:47]

gbee:

paypals IPN and subscription software is a lot easier to integrate with too

[12:30:54]

adante:

you'll know the epg conversation has hit its zenith when someone rolls the nazis (godwins law) or terrorism (godwins new, paragraphrased, law)

[12:31:17]

gbee:

juski: ?

[12:31:48]

gbee:

juski: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/raw-attachment/tic . . . ackport.diff

[12:32:31]

Ruleke:

is paragraphrased an actual word ?

[12:32:37]

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[12:32:40]

Ruleke:

sorry, I'm not a native speaker

[12:33:35]

adante:

no – that was meant to be paraphrased, but my fingers ran away with me

[12:33:40]

Ruleke:

ok

[12:33:46]

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[12:33:48]

Ruleke:

I'm here to learn

[12:33:58]

Ruleke:

muahhaa... /me wipes away tear

[12:34:01]

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[12:34:11]

Ruleke:

sorry I almost believed it

[12:34:17]

adante:

well paragraphased is a word, its just not a very cromulent one

[12:34:26]

Ruleke:

hehe

[12:34:41]

adante:

basically, only fairly people will use or understand it

[12:35:20]

Ruleke:

s/fairly/fairly few/ ?

[12:35:40]

Ruleke:

like embiggens ;)

[12:36:01]

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[12:40:43]

quicksilver:

I think words like paragraphased embiggen the channel, actually.

[12:40:56]

quicksilver:

I was very cromulent of adante to share it with us.

[12:43:43]

slaine_:

lol

[12:44:15]

adante:

oh heh yeah sorry

[12:44:25]

adante:

i meant to say only fairly embiggened people will use or understand it

[12:44:41]

slaine_:

juski, re fluendo, it's my understanding that everything is OSS bar some plugins, specifically the MPEG ones

[12:44:56]

slaine_:

They have plugins that bolt onto the gstreamer framework

[12:45:32]

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[12:51:40]

juski:

slaine_: I know that. they never mention the fact you need to buy those plugins for it to be any use whatsoever though

[12:51:53]

gbee:

which is after all the point of fluendo, to sell their mpeg plugins

[12:52:06]

slaine_:

I thought it was to sell their streaming servers

[12:52:10]

slaine_:

and support

[12:52:18]

slaine_:

The mpeg stuff is very recent

[12:52:30]

juski:

anyway they need to make their UI not suck to get me more interested in it

[12:52:33]

slaine_:

Anyway, aren't there ffmpeg plugins anyhow ?

[12:52:52]

slaine_:

juski, that for their elisa media things, it looks shite doesn't it :)

[12:53:12]

gbee:

that too, i.e. to create a community around an open source project but with the aim of selling their own product

[12:53:31]

juski:

slaine_: no idea. don't care. tried it out, it found myth's upnp server, listed all my recordinds no problem. tried to play one. Oh dear

[12:53:48]

slaine_:

lol

[12:53:54]

gbee:

maybe I'm too cynical, but if it quacks like a duck ...

[12:54:03]

slaine_:

Actually, that's pretty interesting juski

[12:54:36]

slaine_:

I'm interested in making my Set Top Box project here at work, work with my MythTV box at home.

[12:55:15]

gbee:

as a marketing strategy is very clever and I'm suprised more companies aren't using the strategy

[12:55:32]

juski:

prolly cos it's not catching on

[12:56:04]

slaine_:

It's RedHats marketing strategy all over

[12:56:05]

juski:

it might once their windows version takes off though. more is the pity

[12:56:59]

slaine_:

It'll be interesting to see how the three dev's that left get on with their own venture.

[12:57:11]

juski:

not that I'm opposed to paying for mpeg plugins. like I keep saying it's the fact they gloss over it so readily

[12:57:30]

juski:

also the fact that many OSS advocates have orgasms about it

[12:58:22]

gbee:

it doesn't seem to me that they are entirely up front about it all, otherwise I couldn't understand why so many people are in love with it

[12:58:51]

tzanger:

in love with what?

[12:58:57]

tzanger:

(trying to catch the thread)

[12:59:25]

juski:

the impotent (without paid for, closed source plugins) media player they call Elisa

[12:59:36]

tzanger:

never heard of it

[12:59:46]

juski:

what they call 'open source media center' (sic)

[12:59:50]

gbee:

it won't change quickly either, anyone fooled into thinking it was the next great thing isn't going to admit when they realise their mistake and will probably persist with it

[13:00:13]

juski:

heh. yeah. I can't imagine a certain bearded tw*t eating his own words

[13:00:19]

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[13:00:21]

tzanger:

but I do in fact live under a rock :-)

[13:00:34]

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[13:01:00]

gbee:

I only wish I knew why they think we need another media player

[13:01:12]

tzanger:

I haven't heard of this, but rather the linux media centre project

[13:01:18]

tzanger:

I think that's a packaged myth setup

[13:01:22]

tzanger:

like minimyth, which is what I use

[13:01:27]

gbee:

tzanger: it is

[13:01:27]

juski:

that guy from KDE had a fair point. get all the talent under one roof

[13:01:54]

tzanger:

gbee: LMC is a packaged mythtv? or Elisa is?

[13:02:24]

juski:

linuxmce uses bits of mythtv but is not actually mythtv in a box

[13:02:30]

tzanger:

aha

[13:02:40]

gbee:

juski: he did, I can't see how he thinks it will be done though and he never emailed me back

[13:02:43]

juski:

linuxmce is a PoS masquerading as a good idea

[13:03:26]

Ruleke:

When good ideas go bad

[13:03:28]

gbee:

not sure why he gave me his card and asked us to get in touch, only to then ignore us

[13:03:51]

juski:

maybe he was as drunk as I was

[13:04:18]

jams:

or he has a huge stack of cards and just wants to get rid of them

[13:04:32]

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[13:04:37]

gbee:

linuxmce is just too big for it's own good, mythtv and pluto work better as seperate projects

[13:04:53]

juski:

pluto works? ;)

[13:05:23]

gbee:

which doesn't mean they can't have integration at some level, but trying to maintain them under one roof will probably end in tears

[13:05:41]

gbee:

juski: having never tried it I feel confident enough to make that claim :p

[13:05:51]

jams:

doesn't pluto already try to maintain them?

[13:06:23]

jams:

my understanding is that lmce is just a repackage of pluto on ubunta

[13:07:31]

juski:

such a pity April 1st is so far away. I could have so much fun with a video editor & slashdot/digg

[13:07:46]

tzanger:

wow I really do live under a rock

[13:07:55]

tzanger:

I have no idea what pluto is, I thought it was a daemon for openswan :-)

[13:08:11]

juski:

it's mickey mouse's friendly dog

[13:08:26]

gbee:

jams: I thought it was a little more than that, but I couldn't really care if I'm honest, so what I've heard/read is mix of rumour and half forgotten memories

[13:08:38]

tzanger:

pluto is a smarthome add-on for myth?

[13:09:19]

juski:

tzanger: no

[13:09:40]

juski:

it's mythtv held onto some HA apps with duct tape & sticky pads

[13:09:42]

gbee:

no, pluto is a standalone X11/smart home product (or series of half connected script)

[13:10:06]

juski:

AFAIK they use the backend & little else

[13:10:13]

gbee:

which someone has tried to partially integrate with mythtv

[13:11:03]

tzanger:

ah

[13:11:55]

juski:

http://plutohome.com/index.php?section=what_is_pluto

[13:12:29]

tzanger:

oh I've seen this before

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[13:56:47]

Dagmar:

The people wanting "lifetime" subscriptions should be willing to pay, let's see... At least 45x the yearly rate.

[13:57:18]

Dagmar:

Assuming a median age of 30, that's 45 years remaining life-expectancy for males, 48 years for women.

[13:57:38]

Dagmar:

Anyone questioning it gets to pay for ages 18–75.

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[14:19:40]

RyeBrye:

Dagmar – that's not entirely true about the lifetime subscriptions

[14:20:12]

RyeBrye:

using the time-value of money you could calculate an amount of money now that is equivalent to x amount per year for an endless number of years given a certain rate of return

[14:20:46]

Dagmar:

I think telling them they need to pay 45X the yearly rate will be quite effective at getting them to STFU

[14:20:46]

RyeBrye:

but yeah, it would likely be way more than 10x the normal rate

[14:20:48]

juski:

or just say 'lifetime of a mythtv box' – which in the case of most of the people who come in here – about 3 weeks before they need to reinstall

[14:20:57]

RyeBrye:

True :)

[14:21:07]

RyeBrye:

I agree with the STFU factor though :)

[14:21:41]

RyeBrye:

The price list still isn't posted yet, correct?

[14:21:48]

Dagmar:

What they're really wanting is to just pay three years worth and then be able to bitch any time the feeds are unavailable just like TiVo users do

[14:22:32]

RyeBrye:

TiVo did that "lifetime" thing when they needed to extend the lifetime of the company

[14:22:47]

RyeBrye:

And 3 years was probably all anyone would bet that they would be around...

[14:24:10]

RyeBrye:

anyone who cares – here's the formula to calculate the present value of an annuity:

[14:24:11]

RyeBrye:

http://www.getobjects.com/Components/Finance/TVM/pva.html

[14:25:11]

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[14:34:33]

gbee:

the price list isn't posted, but from what has already been said it will be probably be between $2-$5 a month

[14:35:21]

gbee:

which I have to say seems extremely cheap to me, I'd pay those figures and more in £ (2x $)

[14:35:55]

juski:

folks already do over here. people who use MCE, folks who buy RadioTimes ;)

[14:36:35]

juski:

users of Sly TV too

[14:38:13]

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[14:39:14]

gbee:

just made the mistake of reading more of those threads, the idiocy abounds

[14:39:45]

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[14:40:29]

juski:

gbee: aye. and that's the outward image of the project right there

[14:40:41]

gbee:

the fact that some people aren't even willing to pay as little as $10 a month, the cost of a pint or two a week, is just incredible

[14:40:55]

bunder:

do i absolutely need a tv tuner to configure mythtv? i'm waiting to buy one, but i want to get the machine set up beforehand...

[14:41:10]

juski:

bunder: read the FAQ in the wiki

[14:42:03]

gbee:

juski: does it cover that question?

[14:42:06]

gbee:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/FAQ

[14:42:13]

bunder:

juski: no it doesn't

[14:42:23]

bunder:

how about a real answer instead of a frigging "rtfm"

[14:42:53]

juski:

it DOES cover it

[14:43:03]

gbee:

bunder: it would help if you came in here and said "I've read the manual and the wiki but I couldn't find the answer to this question"

[14:43:04]

bunder:

care to show me wehre then

[14:43:23]

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[14:43:35]

juski:

roflmao

[14:43:37]

gbee:

bunder: because we're not mind readers and 75% of questions asked in here are covered in detail in the manual

[14:44:06]

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[14:44:52]

juski:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions – search for " I have no interest in recording Tv but I wish to use Myth as a music/video jukebox. Is this possible?"

[14:45:11]

juski:

oh the idiot left already

[14:45:20]

gbee:

juski: aye

[14:45:34]

juski:

one less headache/troll/asshole then

[14:46:25]

gbee:

juski: what we need are some PR people to counteract the rumours, lies and misconceptions about mythtv

[14:46:43]

juski:

gbee: tried that. then I got holed up in LRL & lost the will to do it

[14:47:14]

juski:

plus there's always a bunch of bearded smartarses with egos too big for their own good who push their own propaganda to anybody who'll listen

[14:47:51]

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[14:48:09]

gbee:

it wouldn't hurt if we released more information in the form of new and press releases, currently we rely on users to do all that sort of stuff and that's why we end up with so many factually incorrect articles or forums posts turning up across the internet

[14:48:13]

laga_:

what lies and misconceptions are out there?

[14:48:18]

laga_:

yeah

[14:48:25]

laga_:

mythtv.org ought to be updated more often

[14:48:42]

laga_:

how many attempts to revamp mythtv.org have there been? three? four?

[14:48:59]

juski:

none ?

[14:49:19]

juski:

seriously :)

[14:49:29]

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[14:49:30]

laga_:

juski: jams made a new design AFAIK, there was a big discussion on the ML...

[14:49:38]

juski:

the users got involved & it all went to mush

[14:49:38]

gbee:

laga_: well the most recent one is that GreyFoxx has deliberately crippled Dishnet EIT in the code because he has his own agenda ;)

[14:50:07]

juski:

"if the 2nd line was 2 more pixels across it would convey a much better overall image"

[14:50:16]

gbee:

asking for user opinions is a sure way to kill a good idea

[14:50:29]

laga_:

gbee: i've always pictured greyfoxx as a villainish guy with a white cat, you know

[14:50:33]

juski:

there was too much posturing & not even getting on with the forkin idea

[14:51:01]

juski:

I think everybody just gave up when they read the ML traffic

[14:51:38]

juski:

can't say I blame anybody for just downing tools like that

[14:52:05]

Beirdo:

juski, just what do you have against bearded smartarses?!

[14:52:24]

juski:

Beirdo: if you ever met the guy I was talking about you'd know

[14:52:27]

** RyeBrye needs to grow a beird **

[14:52:27]

Beirdo:

oh

[14:52:33]

** RyeBrye or maybe a beard **

[14:52:38]

Beirdo:

I kinda fit that description, that's all :)

[14:52:39]

Beirdo:

hehe

[14:52:44]

laga_:

RyeBrye: i didn't know we had users without beards

[14:52:48]

juski:

nothing against smartasses or beards per se, believe me

[14:52:58]

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[14:53:04]

Beirdo:

ahhh, just a specific combination thereof

[14:53:10]

juski:

and shape

[14:53:13]

gbee:

but I've read all sorts of stuff like that over the last couple of years, the most common rumour that I run into is that the developers are unapproachable, that we reject every patch and eat small children

[14:53:25]

juski:

it's OSS folklore

[14:53:26]

RyeBrye:

That's not a rumor

[14:53:29]

RyeBrye:

:P

[14:53:42]

juski:

every lame idea is turned away with a stick of dynamite up its arse

[14:53:55]

juski:

every whiney user is sent away with a flea in their ear

[14:54:01]

juski:

isn't that how it should be?

[14:54:14]

juski:

they've not lifted a finger, so screw em ?

[14:54:38]

RyeBrye:

I will help people if they have a problem I've dealt with and can respond to without having to think too hard

[14:54:58]

RyeBrye:

but I'm not going to dig too deep

[14:55:02]

juski:

if nobody is gonna bend over everything a user whines that mythtv doesn't do X,Y, or Z, there's always gonna be accusations that some or all of the devs are ****s

[14:55:18]

RyeBrye:

and some people get pissed when nobody else has experienced their same pebcac problem

[14:55:20]

juski:

/s/everything/every time

[14:55:27]

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[14:56:00]

juski:

more disassociation from the all-in-one distros would be a place to start.

[14:56:08]

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[14:56:22]

gbee:

I think even I got a flea in my ear when I very first subscribed to the mailing lists but you can tell apart the children from the grownups by how they react to such criticism

[14:56:24]

juski:

if 'slackmyth' didn't work for somebody 1st time around, it's generally not 'slackmyth' which gets bad-mouthed

[14:56:38]

ben_goodger:

perhaps mythtv should become a debian deriv?

[14:57:00]

juski:

oh great. way to lessen the developer workload :-\

[14:57:03]

ben_goodger:

peel out the crap, and distribute it... you solve all the major problems

[14:57:26]

ben_goodger:

"use mythian" could become the answer to 90% of questions

[14:57:44]

ben_goodger:

if you control the OS (more-or-less), it becomes much easier to support

[14:57:44]

Beirdo:

"peel out the crap"

[14:57:45]

Beirdo:

hehehe

[14:57:54]

ben_goodger:

Beirdo: you know what I mean

[14:58:05]

Beirdo:

some people's idea of what's crap is different than others

[14:58:08]

juski:

ben_goodger: apart from stuff like lirc, vga card drivers, tuner card support

[14:58:21]

** RyeBrye off to work **

[14:58:22]

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[14:58:23]

juski:

they're also a big deal & part of the reason mythtv gets bad schtick

[14:58:35]

ben_goodger:

well, exim isn't needed for mythtv, so let's consider that crap, and then we carry on from there

[14:58:38]

juski:

if not THE reason

[14:58:45]

gbee:

ben_goodger: I think we'd start seeing a lot more people asking "Why doesn't mythtv work on Ubuntu/Mandriva/Suse/Windows/ZX86?"

[14:58:51]

juski:

mythtv itself is NOT hard to install and configure

[14:59:04]

juski:

the low level stuff mythtv depends on is a beeeee-atch

[14:59:06]

ben_goodger:

because all those distros are crap

[14:59:11]

Beirdo:

juski, it is if yer brain-dead :)

[14:59:23]

juski:

we're better off without brain-dead users :D

[14:59:45]

Beirdo:

hehe. Yeah, but then where's thefun?

[14:59:57]

gbee:

ben_goodger: whether or not that is true, we'd still get the questions and abuse from users because we'd decided to settle on a single distro

[15:00:02]

Beirdo:

we'd have nobody to abuse

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[15:00:29]

Beirdo:

using a single distro is a very bad idea

[15:00:44]

Beirdo:

it's a linux program, there should be no distro-dependancy

[15:01:05]

gbee:

Beirdo: agreed

[15:02:22]

laga_:

jsut use mythbuntu

[15:02:23]

laga_:

;)

[15:02:23]

** mishehu abuses Beirdo with a random stream of 0's and 1's. **

[15:02:36]

Beirdo:

the only real dependancy is that you must have new enough bits. (like QT3 rather than QT2, etc)

[15:02:55]

mishehu:

Beirdo: has there been talk amongst the devs about porting up to qt4 ?

[15:03:10]

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[15:03:24]

Beirdo:

I haven't been paying enough attention to answer that one, gbee may have a better idea

[15:03:26]

gbee:

I think we can make progress by indirectly controlling packagers better e.g. more frequent releases, READMEs for packagers and even creating our own packages if the packagers continue to screw up

[15:03:37]

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[15:04:34]

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[15:04:36]

gbee:

mishehu: yes and we don't think it will happen for a while yet, porting to QT4 will involve a _lot_ of work and then testing

[15:04:37]

mishehu:

gbee: creating a variable in the makefiles for DESTDIR (I know it's autoconf/automake-ish) would be a great start too for those of us who like to make our own packages.

[15:05:21]

mishehu:

gbee: yeah, I wouldn't think it would be just a walk in the part to port. I'm sure they made some substantial changes.

[15:05:27]

mishehu:

s/part/park

[15:05:35]

gbee:

right now many of the devs are busy and we've a number of bugs/features that are higher priority

[15:05:59]

ben_goodger:

whatever happened to the opengl thingummy?

[15:06:19]

mishehu:

opengl thingummy?

[15:07:21]

gbee:

of course porting to QT4 is on the cards but we will probably need some additional help in the form of patches or Trolltech devs working with us

[15:07:25]

ben_goodger:

myth was meant to acquire a fancy new menu architecture that could either be qt-based or have flashy openglness

[15:07:37]

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[15:07:44]

gbee:

ben_goodger: it has it, except for the flashy but

[15:07:50]

gbee:

s/but/bit/

[15:07:55]

ben_goodger:

ah

[15:08:05]

ben_goodger:

incidentally, you will never get trolltech to work with you

[15:08:09]

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[15:08:26]

gbee:

ben_goodger: they have previously offered to help with a QT4 port

[15:08:33]

ben_goodger:

oh

[15:08:38]

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[15:09:00]

ben_goodger:

I thought they didn't make open-source software but proprietary software under an OSS-approved license

[15:09:00]

juski:

trolls are too busy posting to forums & mailing lists

[15:09:23]

gbee:

the opengl renderer is in 0.20, but not many themes take advantage of the added abilities and only the menus have been ported to the new code, none of the other screens use it yet

[15:09:29]

ben_goodger:

juski: trolltech, not trolls. there are slightl differences

[15:09:44]

juski:

gbee: added abilities.. ha!

[15:09:54]

juski:

alphapulse..

[15:10:03]

** juski goes wobbly at the knees **

[15:10:50]

gbee:

ben_goodger: trolltech see major projects like KDE and Mythtv as examples of QT based work that they can show to prospective clients, so helping in the conversion of mythtv to qt4 would be something they can issue a press release about

[15:11:05]

ben_goodger:

ah, yes, there we go...

[15:11:28]

ben_goodger:

and you had me thinking they might be being slightly altruistic and productive

[15:11:56]

gbee:

juski: just because you won't use the tasteless colour cycling etc doesn't mean that it's not an additional feature of the new ui code ;)

[15:12:17]

ben_goodger:

heheh

[15:12:29]

ben_goodger:

I can think of somewhere that might be tasteful

[15:12:35]

juski:

where?

[15:12:40]

juski:

the 1980s?

[15:12:53]

Beirdo:

of course, all said new stuff further reduces the available hardware that will support it fully... need more CPU, better GPU, etc.

[15:13:22]

juski:

muhehehehehehe. poor pvr350 users

[15:13:44]

gbee:

I've suggested that it would be perfect for Dagmar's LCARs theme, the flash example he showed me had some orange text which faded to black and back

[15:13:52]

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[15:14:13]

ben_goodger:

on the top level menu, it's theoretically possible to have a thing where selecting an item changes the colour of the background, so you can easily identify an area by its colour

[15:14:21]

Beirdo:

juski, if I had bought a 350 and was using it, I'd be pretty pissed that support is slowly disappearing :)

[15:14:21]

juski:

gbee: flashing text could have some uses – like highlighting in-progress or failed recordings

[15:14:37]

gbee:

I'm sure someone will use it in an inventive and not at all tasteless way

[15:14:47]

ben_goodger:

hehe

[15:14:49]

Beirdo:

of course, it might piss me off JUST enough to help support it. hmmm

[15:15:09]

juski:

I'm 100% sure nobody will ever use it in a tasteless way. but wait! the leaves in leafers-wide could be made to change colour!

[15:15:11]

ben_goodger:

listen to me, I'm talking to the developers of a program I've never used

[15:15:27]

juski:

count me in

[15:15:38]

mishehu:

s/ben_goodger/troll ;-))

[15:15:51]

** mishehu chuckles **

[15:15:52]

ben_goodger:

cheers

[15:16:05]

gbee:

the reason why we still offer a QT renderer is precisely because some users will still want mythtv to run on their two-slice toaster, they just have to live without the flashy effects

[15:16:15]

ben_goodger:

I tried to once, actually, but I couldn't make it import existing avis

[15:16:27]

mishehu:

gbee: hey, you just offended my one-slice toaster!

[15:16:27]

juski:

I deliberately run mythtv with the qt renderer

[15:16:31]

Beirdo:

yes. OpenGL is not on every machine :0

[15:16:41]

ben_goodger:

hear, hear...

[15:16:44]

mishehu:

I think OpenGL on a mini-itx would be painful.

[15:16:45]

juski:

I've just not got round to disabling that damn fade yet

[15:16:46]

ben_goodger:

more importantly, graphics acceleration is not in every driver

[15:16:58]

juski:

mishehu: the opengl fade works ok

[15:17:01]

mishehu:

if it even works at all

[15:17:13]

juski:

it's just as lame as on other machines :)

[15:17:17]

mishehu:

juski: too much eye candy gives you optical diabetes.

[15:17:29]

gbee:

heh

[15:17:39]

laga_:

mishehu: rotl

[15:17:43]

juski:

right. so we should revert back to a pukey looking VDR-style interface

[15:17:54]

ben_goodger:

no, no, motif is the one

[15:18:02]

juski:

this is pissing me off

[15:18:04]

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[15:18:13]

ben_goodger:

:(

[15:18:26]

ben_goodger:

something I said?

[15:18:37]

gbee:

my mission right now is to get every single user upgraded to 0.20.2 or trunk, too many people still complaining of long fixed bugs or missing features which have been in one branch or the other for months

[15:19:12]

Beirdo:

heh. Juski needs to take a timeout, I guess

[15:19:16]

ben_goodger:

...debian has 0.20-svn20070609–0.1 ?

[15:19:19]

laga_:

gbee: talked to the ubuntu maintainer about that?

[15:19:20]

laga_:

afk#

[15:19:29]

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[15:19:30]

gbee:

juski is temperamental

[15:19:31]

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[15:19:33]

Dagmar:

gbee: It would help if maybe 0.20.2 were actually released then

[15:19:40]

Beirdo:

aye, some people are like that

[15:19:41]

Beirdo:

:)

[15:19:46]

mishehu:

I was wondering if you guys have had random lock-up issues with recording over firewire. it's something that's been plaguing my machine for a while now.

[15:19:49]

ben_goodger:

most great minds are...

[15:19:53]

Dagmar:

...or even 0.20.1 for that matter.

[15:19:54]

ben_goodger:

and juski, of course :D

[15:20:20]

gbee:

good guy and has done a lot for mythtv, but even he recognises that he has a quick temper

[15:20:46]

Beirdo:

aye. such is life

[15:20:51]

Beirdo:

he'll be back

[15:20:52]

ben_goodger:

ho hum

[15:21:36]

ben_goodger:

so who are the heads around here?

[15:21:42]

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[15:21:52]

ben_goodger:

I get the impression of beirdo, juski and dagmar, but I may be wrong

[15:22:01]

gbee:

mishehu: there is probably the single greatest problem with mythtv – I doubt that even 1/5 of the devs have a firewire STB, so some of these bugs can only be fixed when users tell us there is a problem by opening a bug report

[15:22:38]

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[15:22:57]

gbee:

ben_goodger: two out of those three are devs, one has submitted patches and is designing a new theme (but I'll let you work out which is which)

[15:23:22]

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[15:23:27]

ben_goodger:

I'll say dagmar is the latter

[15:23:30]

gbee:

mishehu: but in answer to your question, no and I don't remember it as an open ticket issue

[15:23:36]

mishehu:

gbee: I'm not even sure if it's a mythtv bug even. it might be a kernel driver issue.

[15:23:50]

gbee:

mishehu: what version are you running?

[15:24:05]

mishehu:

gbee: sec

[15:24:46]

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[15:25:02]

mishehu:

gbee: svn 0.20-fixes from 2007-04–23

[15:25:13]

mishehu:

(I know it's a few months old)

[15:25:19]

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[15:25:28]

mishehu:

I was goign to update the kernel againa nd mythtv and see if I still have the issue, then file a bug report.

[15:26:09]

gbee:

ben_goodger: as far as heads, well depends what you mean – developers, community leaders, long time users or channel operators, you'll find them all in here and I'm sure that personally they will all have their own opinions on the pecking order

[15:26:26]

ben_goodger:

very well

[15:26:38]

Beirdo:

of course :)

[15:26:39]

ben_goodger:

I like the general lack of a pecking order in these projects

[15:27:03]

ben_goodger:

debian has a huge bureaucracy, as most of you know, I'm sure

[15:27:03]

Beirdo:

Isaac is pretty much head of the pecking order though, especially when it comes to devs

[15:28:09]

gbee:

Isaac is the lead dev, the guy who started the project and has final say over the developers and commands a lot of respect from users (well most of them)

[15:28:17]

Beirdo:

in here, those with voice all have ops if needed. Others may also that aren't currently registered

[15:28:22]

ben_goodger:

yeah, I know him

[15:28:23]

Beirdo:

but that's only channel-related

[15:28:24]

Dagmar:

I am not responsible (for MythTV)

[15:28:51]

Beirdo:

the bot only has voice as it's attached to my nick.

[15:30:08]

Beirdo:

I need a splitter so I can see if my air2pc will let me use QAM...

[15:30:10]

Beirdo:

hmmm

[15:30:32]

Beirdo:

dunno if I have one here, or if they all stayed in Canada when I moved

[15:30:55]

gbee:

no idea what it takes to get ops in here, but looking at the list of currently +voiced users, they are all devs (they have commit access to svn)

[15:31:11]

Beirdo:

aye

[15:32:52]

gbee:

Dagmar: I suspect you are responsible (for something), we just have to find out what

[15:33:08]

Dagmar:

gbee: Dropline

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[16:14:39]

djdarkman:

hy, I`m using ubuntu, but it always fails to configure mythtv database what should I do?

[16:17:38]

Dagmar:

Check the installation documentation and make sure you have set up MySQL according to the directions

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[16:29:40]

Dagmar:

Bah. Ther'es a *lot* of asshattery going on on the users ML

[16:29:40]

Dagmar:

"It's also worth noting

[16:29:40]

Dagmar:

that the consumer protections on debit cards are a lot weaker than

[16:29:40]

Dagmar:

those on "real" credit cards.

[16:29:41]

Dagmar:

"

[16:29:48]

Dagmar:

Completely pointless noise, there.

[16:30:06]

Beirdo:

heh

[16:30:08]

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[16:30:09]

Dagmar:

If someone steals money out of your account, the fact of the matter is still that it was the bank that was stolen from, not you.

[16:30:28]

Dagmar:

Ya just call the police and file a report, and the bank *will* change their tune

[16:33:18]

Merlin83b:

The UK's 1974 Consumer Credit Act is pretty powerful, Dagmar.

[16:35:28]

Dagmar:

We don't even have that here.

[16:36:01]

Dagmar:

Banks mainly expect they can make up whatever story they want to customers and the customers will just believe it

[16:37:37]

Dagmar:

...but when you lean on them and remind them (with the aid of police) that you gave them your money because they swore they would only let YOU have it, and the subject of that they never bothered to verify that the transactions were authorized in any way as opposed to the grilling they give you when you try to withdraw $2,000 in person, they get a little more agreeable

[16:38:45]

Dagmar:

Pretty much the same thing applies for the credit report stuff, except they just send you a LOT of forms to fill out to dispute inaccurate information

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[16:46:13]

subx:

ive just installed mythvideo but I cannot get it to play a .avi video. when i select the .avi in the media library menu, a box appears to the left with some information tot he right but nothing happens?

[16:46:42]

subx:

maybe i should try and get it to play without mythtv first

[16:47:16]

Leebier:

Hey, I am about to move and am trying to avoid a STB from hell situation (like I have currently). my provider has 4 different motorola boxes with firewire. 2 questions, 1) Am I actually capturing video that way (in leiu of my capture card)? I'd started looking at firewire to be able to change channels w/o an IR blaster, but this is inteiguing 2) any ideas on which ones are better? they are...

[16:47:18]

Leebier:

...offering 6200 6412 6416 and 3416.

[16:47:36]

Dagmar:

Or, you could select it *again* because the default from there is to just show you the cover and plot synopsis

[16:48:00]

Dagmar:

Leebler: In practice, you're not going to know until you get the hardware.

[16:48:16]

subx:

... it would help if mplayer was installed..

[16:48:25]

Leebier:

fair enough, though, i suppose, given a choice of hardware (i might have it) i could help direct the situation

[16:48:32]

Dagmar:

leebler: Many cable providers are actually run by petty little bitches who flag almost all their content 5C, meaning you can't actually get the firewire box to cough up the video in an unencrypted format

[16:48:44]

Leebier:

but to be sure i'm reading correctly, in a perfect world, i could use the firewire connection in lieu of my capture card?

[16:48:49]

Dagmar:

You'll at the very least be able to change the channel reliably over firewire

[16:48:58]

Dagmar:

Yeah, in a perfect world you'd be able to

[16:49:08]

Dagmar:

It'll be a bit like drinking from the fire hose with some channels tho

[16:49:15]

Leebier:

wow, cool. that may have some long-term implications on how i have my house set up. :-)

[16:49:31]

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[16:49:34]

Dagmar:

Nah, just have cat5e run in the walls and you'll be good until it's time to go to fiber

[16:49:38]

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[16:49:55]

Leebier:

as far as merely using it to change channels, there's a script i can designate for channel changes that sends the commands over the firewire cable?

[16:50:07]

tzanger:

that's why I go dvb-s — it's more or less standard and I can work around the idiocy that the providers throw at me

[16:50:48]

subx:

have u guys setup your lirc so it works with mplayer?

[16:50:54]

subx:

*you

[16:51:47]

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[16:53:14]

Leebier:

to be clear, it is possible to set up such that i record on my PVR-350 but change the channels over IEEE1384?

[16:54:01]

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[16:54:18]

Dagmar:

Yep

[16:55:16]

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[16:56:01]

Leebier:

dagmar- is it a channel change script (like w/ an IR blaster)? or some option somewhere else I've never paid attention to?

[16:56:38]

Dagmar:

Actually, the one thing that does seem to work across all tuners with firewire ports is the calls to tell the tuner to change channels.

[16:57:16]

iamlindoro:

Leebier, you may not be on Ubuntu, but check this out:

[16:57:17]

iamlindoro:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Exte . . . nnel_Changer

[16:57:25]

Dagmar:

I'm not 100% sure how the channel-changing over firewire but encoding on PVR works but there's other people who do iot

[16:57:27]

Dagmar:

Yeah like that

[16:57:54]

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[16:58:36]

iamlindoro:

That'll get you binaries for firewire channel changing, and show you where the source is in myth if you're not on ubuntu

[16:58:50]

Leebier:

iamlindoro, thanks! that's exactly what i needed

[16:58:57]

iamlindoro:

np

[16:59:01]

Leebier:

now i just need to get the parts for the new box, move, and get cable installed :)

[16:59:11]

iamlindoro:

Ah, the little stuff

[16:59:13]

Leebier:

plus, looks like some more hints for the IR blaster if i have to revert to that

[16:59:31]

** Leebier is at home waiting for the newegg delivery **

[17:00:00]

Leebier:

any feedback on better/worse moto STBs? the cableco seems flexible if i have a preference

[17:01:37]

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[17:02:06]

iamlindoro:

Looks like there is a binary specifically for the 6200 so that might be a good bet

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[17:02:35]

juski:

gbee: I've thought of a way to implement a themable variable width gui element. we need 3 iamges – a start, a middle & an end. the middle can be stretched horizontally :)

[17:03:30]

gbee:

juski: yeah, that's a good way to do it, it's pretty common practise when designing flexible width web pages

[17:04:45]

juski:

it could also work for variable-size boxes too I reckon. again, similar to webpage design

[17:06:03]

gbee:

I'm off to eat, but I'll be back

[17:06:08]

juski:

kk

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[17:18:02]

Super_Cat_Frog:

hi – im having problems with mythtv crashing on program boundries – is this a known problem ?

[17:18:12]

juski:

yeahyeahyeahyeh

[17:18:30]

Super_Cat_Frog:

any known workaround?

[17:18:36]

juski:

nahnahnahnahnah

[17:18:50]

Super_Cat_Frog:

do you know a working svn revision?

[17:19:04]

juski:

unless you mean the problem that came about with 0.20 before 0.20-fixes was unleashed

[17:19:19]

Super_Cat_Frog:

im using svn head from last week

[17:19:45]

Super_Cat_Frog:

i'll paste the output in about 10 minutes, at the end of some program

[17:19:46]

juski:

then you should be up to date with ups & downs of svn by following -commits & the -dev list

[17:19:59]

laga_:

it's a very known problem

[17:20:26]

Super_Cat_Frog:

no, i dont follow the dev or commits lists, i just wanted a source tree to compile without xrandr, so i chose svn head

[17:20:26]

juski:

very known but only to people who do the recommended thing & follow the lists

[17:20:49]

juski:

well you SHOULD follow those lists, or all kinds of unexpected hell can slap you

[17:20:58]

Super_Cat_Frog:

yes, i got that

[17:21:13]

juski:

the checkout instructions even say as much

[17:21:20]

juski:

ignore them at your own peril :)

[17:21:35]

Super_Cat_Frog:

i just looked for a line that looked like 'svn co' and ignored the text

[17:21:40]

laga_:

Super_Cat_Frog: check ticket #2335

[17:21:50]

Super_Cat_Frog:

laga_: ta

[17:22:03]

juski:

check svn for tickets yerself yer lazy arse. jees

[17:22:16]

laga_:

:P

[17:23:59]

Super_Cat_Frog:

#2335 was apparently fixed in r12549

[17:24:32]

juski:

aye so everybody thought

[17:25:03]

Super_Cat_Frog:

ah

[17:26:36]

juski:

it's all part of a conspiracy to drive users away from using livetv of course

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[17:30:30]

juski:

from the text in the ticket, it looks like there are workarounds anyway

[17:30:39]

juski:

at least for ivtv users

[17:30:41]

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[17:31:50]

juski:

for dvb users, the problem will more than likely persist until there's a proper fix. if indeed there's a real problem ;)

[17:32:53]

Aval0j:

hey juski does myth have different fast forward and rewind speeds?

[17:32:56]

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Aval0n:

grr

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gbee:

Aval0n: yes

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gbee:

3x 5x 10x 20x 30x etc

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[18:11:55]

Aval0n:

gbee cool thnx

[18:13:18]

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[18:13:33]

sphery:

Aval0n: See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . 32808#132808 for more (you can change the speeds)

[18:13:53]

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[18:14:55]

chakie:

hello folks

[18:15:10]

sphery:

Aval0n: This is a more complete description: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/158632#158632

[18:15:12]

chakie:

at what time should the backend server be started when installing?

[18:15:34]

chakie:

i ran mythtv-setup ok, then mythfilldatabase. is all ok to fire up now?

[18:15:41]

sphery:

yep

[18:16:12]

chakie:

ok

[18:16:15]

fryfrog:

don't forget to check the log file to see if it is happy

[18:16:41]

chakie:

yeah

[18:17:34]

chakie:

hm, can it log to syslog? i get all syslog stuff to a central server here at home

[18:18:10]

chakie:

seems it started up fine, even seems to have polled the CAM on the dvb card

[18:25:18]

sphery:

chakie: I don't think it has syslog capability. Patches welcome. Or, you can create a "proxy" that takes output from myth{backend,frontend}, mtd, ... and passes it to syslog.

[18:25:23]

chakie:

mythfrontend also seems to work

[18:26:01]

chakie:

of course, watching live tv over ssh to a 1920x1200 desktop didn't really work too well :)

[18:26:18]

chakie:

seems i have to get down and dirty on the livingroom floor...

[18:27:06]

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[18:27:12]

sphery:

Yeah. X redirect (and VNC and ...) don't really work for video.

[18:27:47]

chakie:

nope :)

[18:27:54]

chakie:

didn't expect it to either

[18:28:15]

chakie:

just easier to sit here at my desktop and do some setup

[18:30:27]

tcpsyn:

bah.

[18:30:33]

tcpsyn:

I got my pchdtv5500 today.

[18:30:47]

tcpsyn:

But when I scan for channels it says no signal.

[18:30:48]

tcpsyn:

:(

[18:31:16]

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[18:32:29]

tcpsyn:

I have a pchdtv 5500 and a pvr-150

[18:32:45]

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[18:34:00]

|Torg|:

tcpsyn what are you using for input to the card, and where does that come from?

[18:34:10]

iamlindoro:

And in mythtv-setup it's set as the correct type of card, not v4l?

[18:34:21]

tcpsyn:

dvb

[18:35:03]

iamlindoro:

hrm, not in front of a myth box right now, does HDTV 5500 not have its own category? I know the HD 5000 does...

[18:35:25]

|Torg|:

it should show up as a DVB card

[18:35:35]

tcpsyn:

the option that says pchdtv is v4l

[18:35:36]

|Torg|:

what are you using for input to it?

[18:35:47]

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[18:35:56]

tcpsyn:

and when I try to use DVB DTV capture card, it says Frontend ID: Could not get card info for card #0

[18:36:19]

|Torg|:

what kernel do you have? and did you compile or download myth with dvb supprt?

[18:36:21]

bill2or3:

by 'DTV' do you mean DirecTV?

[18:36:26]

tcpsyn:

I compiled it.

[18:36:34]

bill2or3:

because that doesn't make sense.

[18:36:34]

tcpsyn:

bill2or3, I don't know, that's just what it says

[18:36:37]

bill2or3:

ahh.

[18:36:40]

|Torg|:

did you add --enable-dvb?

[18:36:57]

tcpsyn:

yes

[18:37:08]

|Torg|:

did you use dvbscan to verify it can see anything?

[18:37:21]

|Torg|:

then did you use the apporpriate zap program to verify it can tune?

[18:37:33]

tcpsyn:

no, that's what I'm trying to do

[18:37:39]

tcpsyn:

but I'm not getting any positive results

[18:37:40]

|Torg|:

and what kernel version do you have?

[18:37:49]

tcpsyn:

2.6.19

[18:38:16]

|Torg|:

compiled or from distro?

[18:38:25]

tcpsyn:

compiled

[18:38:42]

|Torg|:

did you compile the module for the card under DVB?

[18:38:57]

tcpsyn:

Aug 8 14:05:18 rome kernel: cx88[0]/2: cx2388x based dvb card

[18:38:57]

tcpsyn:

Aug 8 14:05:18 rome kernel: DVB: registering new adapter (cx88[0]).

[18:38:58]

tcpsyn:

Aug 8 14:05:18 rome kernel: DVB: registering frontend 0 (LG Electronics LGDT3303 VSB/QAM Frontend)

[18:39:20]

|Torg|:

is cx88-dvb loaded?

[18:39:42]

tcpsyn:

yes

[18:40:42]

|Torg|:

does /dev/dv/adapter0/fronted0 exist? it it major 212 minor 3?

[18:40:59]

|Torg|:

sorry /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0

[18:41:34]

tcpsyn:

/dev/dvb doesn't exist

[18:42:15]

|Torg|:

use Makedev and create them

[18:42:29]

tcpsyn:

Aug 8 14:05:18 rome kernel: DVB: registering frontend 0 (LG Electronics LGDT3303 VSB/QAM Frontend)rome:/var/log# makedev

[18:42:33]

tcpsyn:

-su: makedev: command not found

[18:42:40]

|Torg|:

MAKEDEV maybe?

[18:42:43]

|Torg|:

depends on distro

[18:42:47]

tcpsyn:

yeah

[18:42:49]

tcpsyn:

caps works

[18:42:50]

|Torg|:

should be in /dev

[18:43:01]

tcpsyn:

just MAKEDEV /dev/dvb?

[18:43:17]

|Torg|:

./MAKEDEV dvb

[18:43:48]

tcpsyn:

ok

[18:43:55]

|Torg|:

it should create 4 adapters numbered 0 -3

[18:44:00]

tcpsyn:

yup

[18:44:20]

chakie:

hm, my dvb live stuff worked fine

[18:44:25]

tcpsyn:

nice

[18:44:27]

chakie:

but no program info shown

[18:44:33]

tcpsyn:

now the frontend id seems to work

[18:44:51]

|Torg|:

do you have the dvbscan utilities on the system?

[18:44:56]

tcpsyn:

I do

[18:45:07]

|Torg|:

do you know if you use HRC or IRC?

[18:45:17]

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[18:45:24]

tcpsyn:

I don't know

[18:45:32]

|Torg|:

its okk scan both :)

[18:45:49]

tcpsyn:

well, I have dtvscan

[18:45:51]

|Torg|:

run locate QAM256

[18:45:52]

tcpsyn:

not dvb

[18:46:03]

tcpsyn:

no results

[18:46:10]

chakie:

mythfilldatabase doesn't seem to do any EPG scan, so no program info

[18:46:30]

|Torg|:

tcpsyn what distro do you use?

[18:46:42]

tcpsyn:

debian

[18:46:42]

|Torg|:

I probbly shoudl have asked that before

[18:46:43]

chakie:

on debian dvbscan is called "scan"

[18:46:48]

chakie:

at least on etch

[18:46:50]

tcpsyn:

I ran the scan in mythtv

[18:46:53]

chakie:

comes from dvb-utils

[18:46:57]

tcpsyn:

after doing the Makedev

[18:47:02]

tcpsyn:

and it's finding channels

[18:47:20]

|Torg|:

good, after that zap them (thats tuning)

[18:47:26]

tcpsyn:

zap them?

[18:47:44]

|Torg|:

when you say scannign them are you taking about mythtv or are you talking about the dvb utils?

[18:47:50]

tcpsyn:

mythtv

[18:48:17]

|Torg|:

ok, I was gogin to get you to test them command line first

[18:48:30]

tcpsyn:

I can do that too.

[18:48:33]

|Torg|:

but if it already works in mythtv I can assume it would have scanned and tuned channels

[18:48:34]

tcpsyn:

what I gotta do?

[18:48:41]

tcpsyn:

its scanning the channels now

[18:49:06]

tcpsyn:

lots of encrypted stuff

[18:49:13]

|Torg|:

let it finish scanning, if you need to add a channel it didnt find, you may need to add a transpot by hand (not likly)

[18:49:21]

** chakie needs a better gfx card than the built in "VIA Technologies, Inc. Unknown device 3230" crap :) **

[18:49:29]

|Torg|:

when you get done run mythfilldatabase and hope to hell the xmltvids match up

[18:49:46]

|Torg|:

if they dont you will need to fill them in by hand and rerun mythfilldatabase

[18:49:50]

|Torg|:

what do you use for listings?

[18:49:54]

tcpsyn:

zap2it

[18:50:56]

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[18:51:36]

|Torg|:

each entry in the channel database will have entires for each channel you have. Some of the info may be blank as it is set for all kinds of cards and not all need the same info

[18:51:47]

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[18:51:50]

|Torg|:

every channel needs an xmltvid as that is how the channel is identified for listing data

[18:52:00]

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[18:52:12]

|Torg|:

sometimes, especially with HDTV channels, zap2it failes to load data for the xmltvid and you have to do it manual

[18:52:21]

|Torg|:

at least for my ATSC cards it was like that

[18:52:28]

tcpsyn:

ah, well I shouldn't have more than 10 hd channels anyway

[18:52:32]

tcpsyn:

so that shouldn't suck too bad

[18:52:50]

|Torg|:

I onlu had 30 or so ATSC cahnels 20 or so I didnt care about anyway :)

[18:52:53]

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[18:53:29]

|Torg|:

its also likly you will find more then a few of those channels encrypted

[18:53:38]

Anduin:

gbee: If it is using the same API the movie info was, it is easy to reject, the usage agreements could be complied with, but not with something that just downloads once (you need to check back, honor requests to delete things you cached, etc (all from memory, the page with the requirements is easy to find))

[18:53:48]

|Torg|:

about the only thing that won't be, or sholdnt be I shoudl say, are your local channels

[18:54:04]

tcpsyn:

is having a pvr150 for ntsc and the pchdtv for atsc going to be a problem?

[18:54:14]

|Torg|:

not at all

[18:54:18]

tcpsyn:

cool

[18:54:27]

|Torg|:

but you arnt using atsc your using qam256

[18:54:34]

tcpsyn:

right

[18:54:38]

tcpsyn:

I thought that was atsc

[18:54:38]

|Torg|:

atsc is broadcast digital

[18:54:38]

tcpsyn:

heh

[18:54:50]

|Torg|:

I believe you card can do atsc as well

[18:55:08]

tcpsyn:

I'm just using my comcast cable

[18:55:14]

tcpsyn:

wouldn't that be broadcast digital?

[18:55:37]

|Torg|:

cable digital, differnt modulation

[18:55:41]

tcpsyn:

oh

[18:55:43]

|Torg|:

remeber I asked about HRC or IRC?

[18:55:48]

tcpsyn:

yeah

[18:57:20]

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[18:57:46]

|Torg|:

you can think of cable as being AM radio with ATSC is being FM radio

[18:58:12]

|Torg|:

not *exactly* the same as there isnt the same loss of quailty assocated with radio but the transmisison is sorta along the same lines

[18:58:23]

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[18:58:29]

|Torg|:

QAM is Quaduture (sp?) Amplitude modulation

[18:58:38]

gbee:

Anduin: ok thanks, I'll take a look at the patch later

[18:58:42]

|Torg|:

ATSC is PSK or Phased shift Keying

[18:59:14]

|Torg|:

there is a much better decrition on wikipedia if you like

[18:59:16]

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[18:59:29]

tcpsyn:

I've read it a thousand times, I still don't understand

[18:59:34]

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[18:59:42]

tcpsyn:

but then again, I don't understand am or fm either

[18:59:56]

|Torg|:

like I said think of it like AM and FM

[19:00:02]

tcpsyn:

data over air confuses the shit out of me.

[19:00:05]

stuarta:

tcpsyn: then you won't every understand QAM

[19:00:09]

stuarta:

ever...

[19:00:24]

stuarta:

oh well, we're all good at different things

[19:00:24]

|Torg|:

over the air or over cable is the same thing

[19:00:33]

|Torg|:

cable jsut has more spectrum to use

[19:02:33]

|Torg|:

and its not really necessay you know how it works, any more then you know how electricy works, to use it

[19:05:35]

keith4:

whoa

[19:05:45]

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[19:05:46]

keith4:

licensed TMS data?!

[19:05:47]

Slyboots:

Hey

[19:06:06]

|Torg|:

keith4???

[19:06:11]

keith4:

http://schedulesdirect.org/

[19:06:21]

keith4:

Schedules Direct is pleased to announce that it has licensed US and Canadian television program information from Tribune Media Services. This data will be distributed directly to the users of Open Source and Freeware applications.

[19:06:21]

|Torg|:

yes, whats so strange about it?

[19:06:25]

keith4:

that's awesome

[19:06:31]

keith4:

anyone speculated on the price yet?

[19:06:45]

|Torg|:

Ill reserve my opinion untill I see a price

[19:06:57]

keith4:

of course

[19:07:18]

keith4:

i wonder how different my idea of "shortly" is from theirs

[19:07:24]

tcpsyn:

Now that I've added the card I can't connect to the backend

[19:07:55]

|Torg|:

sortly as aopposed to longly, befoer 1 Septermber (if what they posted is correct, and I have no reason to think otherwise)

[19:08:12]

|Torg|:

tcpsyn what cant connect to the backend?

[19:08:18]

tcpsyn:

my frontend

[19:08:27]

|Torg|:

are the on two seperate boxes?

[19:08:31]

tcpsyn:

yes

[19:08:41]

Slyboots:

Is there a way to.. I dunno. .finetune a DVB-T signal?

[19:08:43]

|Torg|:

did you tell the frontend that it needed to connect to teh IP address of the backend?

[19:08:48]

stuarta:

shortly would have to be before Sept 1st

[19:09:03]

Slyboots:

Trying to watch Sky-Three, While it works on a external freeview box fine, on the DVB-T box the signal is dire

[19:09:06]

tcpsyn:

yeah, all that worked, The only thing that's changed is I replaced a pvr-150 with a pchdtv

[19:09:24]

|Torg|:

did you stop the backend when you added the dvb card?

[19:09:31]

stuarta:

Slyboots: there is a magic keypress for that

[19:09:38]

tcpsyn:

I don't remember

[19:09:47]

|Torg|:

if you didnt it woul have warned to

[19:09:54]

Slyboots:

stuarta: Eh?\

[19:09:58]

|Torg|:

did you restart the frontend after you started the backend back up?

[19:10:04]

tcpsyn:

yes

[19:10:04]

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[19:10:16]

|Torg|:

is the backend running?

[19:10:23]

tcpsyn:

yes

[19:10:35]

|Torg|:

are you sure, did you look, or did you assume becase you started it

[19:10:40]

stuarta:

Slyboots: F7 while watching livetv. tho i believe it's a head only feature.

[19:12:14]

Slyboots:

Just appears to have frozen the frontend

[19:12:42]

stuarta:

didn't do much for me when i just tried it either.

[19:12:47]

stuarta:

but ESC worked

[19:12:53]

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[19:13:10]

tcpsyn:

I looked

[19:13:13]

tcpsyn:

It was running.

[19:13:15]

tcpsyn:

It's off now.

[19:13:25]

tcpsyn:

I made sure it's stopped and I'm going through the setup again

[19:13:44]

|Torg|:

if you start it, it may have crashed, look at the logs

[19:13:45]

stuarta:

it's supposed to put it into a signal monitor mode.

[19:13:47]

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[19:13:54]

tcpsyn:

no, it didn't crash, it was running

[19:13:55]

sebrock:

Hey, anyonu using a Mac Mini as frontend?

[19:14:00]

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[19:15:39]

clever:

http://pastebin.ca/650233

[19:15:46]

clever:

my backend is connecting to itself again

[19:15:54]

clever:

and this time i have the log of it actualy connecting

[19:17:40]

tcpsyn:

ok.

[19:17:45]

tcpsyn:

Now the frontend is working

[19:17:54]

tcpsyn:

my pvr tuner works in live tv

[19:18:00]

tcpsyn:

but I can't get a channel lock on the pchdtv

[19:18:04]

tcpsyn:

the listing data is there

[19:18:08]

tcpsyn:

but the channels are all black

[19:18:19]

|Torg|:

when you tune a channel there will be some leters in the osd bar

[19:18:29]

|Torg|:

small letters are bad, caps are good

[19:18:36]

|Torg|:

is there a L in it?

[19:18:38]

tcpsyn:

what letters?

[19:18:40]

tcpsyn:

no letters.

[19:18:54]

tcpsyn:

I'm on WGBH-HD, channel 22

[19:19:00]

tcpsyn:

I can see the time

[19:19:03]

tcpsyn:

and thats it

[19:19:43]

|Torg|:

is there a signal strength in the osd bar?

[19:19:50]

tcpsyn:

no

[19:20:01]

tcpsyn:

I'm using juski's grayhem osd

[19:20:01]

|Torg|:

its proabbly just my osd then, what do you use?

[19:20:09]

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[19:20:12]

|Torg|:

try blootube

[19:20:35]

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[19:20:43]

tcpsyn:

I'm using juski's grayhem osd

[19:21:13]

|Torg|:

yes I fully understand, for now use blootube-osd

[19:21:28]

|Torg|:

im saying that becase on it is a signal strength meter and those letters I was asking about

[19:21:45]

|Torg|:

those letters will tell you if the channel is locked and if it can decode it

[19:23:25]

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[19:23:34]

Cardoe:

anyone else use mythdvd to play dvds?

[19:23:48]

tcpsyn:

With blootube, I see the same stuff

[19:23:50]

tcpsyn:

no letters

[19:24:19]

|Torg|:

the osd, not the theme

[19:24:44]

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[19:25:07]

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[19:26:16]

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[19:26:18]

gbee:

Cardoe: yes, fairly regularly until recently (rental dvds)

[19:26:56]

Cardoe:

gbee: well with -fixes I have the problem that ALWAYS when rewinding

[19:27:01]

Cardoe:

I pause.. then hit play

[19:27:11]

Cardoe:

as soon as I hit play.. it goes into a fast forward mode

[19:27:20]

Cardoe:

for example.. watching Rome last night

[19:27:27]

gbee:

|Torg|, tcpsyn: the signal strength indicator stuff only appears for DVB/ATSC

[19:27:30]

Cardoe:

it fast forwarded through the current episode I was on

[19:27:42]

Cardoe:

and continued right on fast forwarding through the 2nd episode

[19:27:55]

Cardoe:

the only way to fix this is to ssh in, and kill mythfrontend

[19:27:56]

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[19:28:00]

Cardoe:

no keys are responsive on the remote

[19:28:02]

|Torg|:

thanks gbee I didnt realise it, its what I use to diagnoe DVB problems (like failed to read PMT)

[19:28:13]

gbee:

Cardoe: ahh, well it might be fixed in trunk, a lot of fixes were done to the ff/rew code

[19:28:30]

** Cardoe coughs... backport... coughs. **

[19:28:52]

gbee:

but open a ticket and I'm sure Stanley will backport any necessary changes, just make clear that it's a -fixes problem

[19:28:54]

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[19:29:43]

tcpsyn:

which frequency table should I use scanning for channels?

[19:30:04]

|Torg|:

that you would have to ask teh cable company, like I said earlier try both

[19:30:16]

|Torg|:

id assume since it found chanels and worked you already did that tho

[19:30:17]

tcpsyn:

theres 7

[19:30:28]

tcpsyn:

It found channels, but it never played them

[19:30:32]

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[19:30:34]

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[19:30:50]

|Torg|:

hence the reason I wanted to use teh dvb utils to test it first

[19:31:38]

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[19:31:44]

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[19:32:54]

gbee:

Cardoe: you might catch skamithi in #mythtv, he's in here frequently, but there is no predictable pattern to the times he is online

[19:33:17]

Beirdo:

hmmm, where the heck did I do that svn checkout?!

[19:33:40]

Beirdo:

ahhh

[19:33:42]

Beirdo:

there it is

[19:34:30]

** Cardoe pokes Beirdo **

[19:34:36]

Cardoe:

Beirdo: it's that heat getting to you huh?

[19:34:43]

Beirdo:

heh, could be

[19:35:06]

Beirdo:

I love it though

[19:35:17]

iamlindoro:

Heat where?

[19:35:24]

Beirdo:

Puerto Rico

[19:35:31]

iamlindoro:

oh yup, that's hot... and humid

[19:35:44]

Beirdo:

it hasn't been below about 78F since I moved here May 1 2006

[19:35:51]

tcpsyn:

it's IRC

[19:35:52]

tcpsyn:

I use IRC

[19:35:56]

iamlindoro:

I went to school in Arizona, that was damn hot, but nowhere near as humid

[19:36:06]

Beirdo:

it's about 90F now, and nice humidity

[19:36:08]

Beirdo:

I like it

[19:36:11]

|Torg|:

gbee are you sure qam sont have settings in dvbsignalmonitor, it looks like it shoul report back its flags.

[19:36:15]

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[19:36:21]

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[19:36:52]

|Torg|:

id think ANY dvb card conforming to the DVB API should give at least some indication

[19:39:40]

gbee:

|Torg|: which is what I was saying, I didn't really read back to see what card you were talking about, I assumed that since he wasn't seeing the signal monitor that he was using an analogue tuner

[19:40:25]

|Torg|:

no he put in a HDTV5500 conncted to his digital cable

[19:40:35]

|Torg|:

he is getting nothing from it after it scanned cahnnels

[19:40:41]

gbee:

I really don't know if the signal monitor is displayed for cable stuff, (DVB-C etc) but I'd assume it was since it's all the same thing

[19:40:55]

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[19:41:00]

|Torg|:

im thinking maybe its encrytped or he failed to get a PMT

[19:41:10]

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[19:41:11]

|Torg|:

so I was looking at teh flags that my osd has, next to the signal strength

[19:41:29]

|Torg|:

im thinking its a DVB thing, not a cable thing

[19:41:48]

|Torg|:

so his dvb card, if it comforms to the DVB API, should at least give some indications

[19:42:39]

Cardoe:

I have a pcHDTV 5500 connected to my cable provider using QAM256

[19:42:41]

Cardoe:

works fine

[19:43:10]

Cardoe:

most cable providers provide bad data for the streams

[19:43:16]

|Torg|:

then Cardoe maybe you can help tcpsyn.

[19:43:18]

Cardoe:

and they encrypt weird stuff

[19:43:18]

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[19:43:38]

|Torg|:

I had him add the dvb device entires and at least myth found the cards

[19:43:40]

gbee:

As I understand it, talking about "QAM" is something of a mis-nomer, it's really DVB, QAM is just how the signal is transmitted and has nothing to do with the format of the actual data

[19:44:26]

stuarta:

yes, QAM is a method of encoding the bits onto the carrier stream

[19:44:36]

|Torg|:

dvb is digital video bard (or something like that) its the hardware specs and the api

[19:44:52]

stuarta:

digital video broadcasting

[19:45:02]

|Torg|:

ATSC is a baord that sites over the bordcast , its really 8psk

[19:45:18]

|Torg|:

qam256 is a type of, but not the same as psk

[19:45:24]

tcpsyn:

Now I see the letters.

[19:45:30]

tcpsyn:

Signal 0%, LAMc Partial Lock

[19:45:35]

|Torg|:

we CALL, cable digntial QAM256, and we CALL broadcast dignal ASTC

[19:45:48]

|Torg|:

AHH ok tcpsyn see the litle c?

[19:45:52]

stuarta:

which is really a misnomer

[19:45:53]

** directhex throws DVB-T at |Torg| **

[19:46:11]

tcpsyn:

yeah

[19:46:25]

** stuarta throws iso-13819 at |Torg| **

[19:46:25]

|Torg|:

L is good it means lock, M is good it means you got MGT packets, A I cant remeber

[19:46:26]

tcpsyn:

I'm getting some channels

[19:46:34]

stuarta:

tcpsyn: means your channel is encrypted

[19:46:36]

tcpsyn:

They're just listed wrong

[19:46:38]

|Torg|:

c is bas it means yuou filed encrytion, ill assume that card dosnt have a CI

[19:46:44]

|Torg|:

in opther words your cvable in encrypted

[19:46:59]

tcpsyn:

not all of it.

[19:47:07]

stuarta:

that channel is

[19:47:09]

tcpsyn:

I'm getting the home shopping networks

[19:47:09]

tcpsyn:

heh

[19:47:15]

gbee:

Digital Video Broadcast and it refers to the specification based on mpeg to which the data (video, audio, subtitles, EIT etc) are organised – it's nothing to do with the hardware or linux driver which are confusingly called DVB by the developers

[19:47:17]

** directhex has a CI \o/ **

[19:47:49]

|Torg|:

tcpsyn try your local stations

[19:48:17]

tcpsyn:

Those aren't coming in on this tuner.

[19:48:24]

tcpsyn:

Just the stations that are like 76#2

[19:48:29]

stuarta:

carrying on from what gbee said, they can be carried over numerous transport streams, whether they be QAM, PSK or other encodings

[19:48:38]

|Torg|:

your cable company disnt provide them?

[19:49:21]

gbee:

ATSC is a variation on the DVB spec, typically the Americans like to be different :)

[19:49:21]

tcpsyn:

it does, I tested by going straight to my tv

[19:49:34]

directhex:

gbee, next you'll say NTSC sucks!

[19:50:02]

gbee:

directhex: never! :p

[19:50:10]

** stuarta chuckles **

[19:50:22]

|Torg|:

ok tcpsyn those channels with the # in them are digital designations (you can change the designator on them if you like to something else).

[19:51:03]

|Torg|:

but if you get your locals, and if you get them via digital cable, one of them should be coresponding to eash channel

[19:51:10]

|Torg|:

there may be a SD and HD version of them

[19:51:19]

sebrock:

Hey, anyonu using a Mac Mini as frontend?

[19:51:23]

tcpsyn:

I can't change the aspect ratio on the dvb device?

[19:51:25]

|Torg|:

and just becase its channel X does not mean it will show up as X on the cabel

[19:52:08]

|Torg|:

also many station (none of mine do) bradcast HD during the midday (some morning shows are, news is, and most prime time is)

[19:52:12]

gbee:

in the UK the DVB-T network uses 16-QAM, but it's could be transmitted using JFNWD-12 and still be DVB-T

[19:52:17]

|Torg|:

so if your lookign for HD you have to try then

[19:52:43]

stuarta:

gbee: UK has both QAM16 and QAM64 with 2k & 8k symbol rates

[19:52:47]

tcpsyn:

Yeah. I think I should use a channels.conf file

[19:53:02]

gbee:

no, don't look up JFNWD-12, I made it up for dramatic effect

[19:53:08]

|Torg|:

no, a channels.conf file is what you use to import channel defentions to mythtv

[19:53:19]

|Torg|:

you already did that, so you dont *need* to do it

[19:53:28]

|Torg|:

it is helpfull later on tho when you want to dignaose problems

[19:53:54]

gbee:

stuarta: missed that development, I thought we were purely using QAM16 until the analogue switch off, after which it would change to QAM64

[19:53:59]

tcpsyn:

I just want my regular stations in HD..

[19:54:01]

tcpsyn:

fox, abc

[19:54:02]

tcpsyn:

you know

[19:54:09]

Cardoe:

tcpsyn: who's your cable company?

[19:54:17]

tcpsyn:

comcast

[19:54:26]

Cardoe:

and what does dvbscan give you?

[19:54:30]

|Torg|:

he didnt use it

[19:54:42]

Cardoe:

well.. you have to

[19:54:50]

Cardoe:

since you have to generate a channels.conf file

[19:54:53]

Cardoe:

and load that into MythTV

[19:55:00]

Cardoe:

since they provide invalid pids and such

[19:55:03]

|Torg|:

he jsut told mythtv-setup to scan in th4e chanenls, and it found them

[19:55:06]

Cardoe:

and you have to correct them by hand

[19:55:15]

Cardoe:

ok. so it found some channels

[19:55:19]

tcpsyn:

yeah, all this stuff is in spanish or encrypted.

[19:55:22]

Cardoe:

yeah

[19:55:27]

tcpsyn:

at least I know it works

[19:55:40]

tcpsyn:

can I force it to 16:9 though?

[19:55:42]

Cardoe:

right all the local stations have bad data with them

[19:55:52]

Cardoe:

you can change the aspect ratio of mythtv

[19:56:02]

|Torg|:

tcpsyn your geting ahead of yourself

[19:56:07]

tcpsyn:

Yeah, I know

[19:56:07]

tcpsyn:

heh

[19:56:08]

Cardoe:

but you can't force them to send you 16:9 when they're not broadcasting 16:9

[19:56:16]

tcpsyn:

I've actually got to split for a while, which sucks.

[19:56:23]

Cardoe:

tcpsyn: why don't you read the avsforums for your city

[19:56:26]

|Torg|:

most of the time they brascast SD on the HD chanels

[19:56:35]

clever:

http://pastebin.ca/650233

[19:56:37]

|Torg|:

so you really wont know if its working untill this evening

[19:56:38]

clever:

my backend is connecting to itself again

[19:56:39]

clever:

and this time i have the log of it actualy connecting

[19:56:42]

tcpsyn:

whats a capital C?

[19:56:55]

|Torg|:

it would mean it decrypted the chanel

[19:57:20]

tcpsyn:

oh, nice.

[19:57:33]

|Torg|:

it would be illegal for you to do that, forget about it

[19:57:43]

tcpsyn:

oh, well, it did.

[19:57:50]

tcpsyn:

Because I was just watching the mighty ducks.

[19:57:51]

tcpsyn:

heh

[19:58:07]

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[19:58:09]

Cardoe:

they've been known to broadcast HBO in the clear

[19:58:22]

tcpsyn:

wow

[19:58:37]

tcpsyn:

I don't subscribe to hbo, but I would if it were clear

[19:58:49]

|Torg|:

if the flags are showing C then you are decryting the packets and unless you are doing it int eh US its illegal

[19:59:03]

|Torg|:

if its NOT enctyrped it wont show the C (or c for that matter)

[19:59:07]

Cardoe:

|Torg|: you can't magically decrypt

[19:59:12]

directhex:

gbee, i'm definitely on qam64

[19:59:20]

|Torg|:

I didnt say he could

[19:59:21]

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[19:59:26]

tcpsyn:

I didn't ask it to. It just did it.

[19:59:28]

tcpsyn:

and I am in the US.

[19:59:31]

Cardoe:

and MythTV doesn't decrypt anything

[19:59:33]

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[19:59:41]

|Torg|:

mythtv does not have the facilites to decrypt anything

[19:59:47]

Cardoe:

|Torg|: it just means they're saying the content is encrypted

[19:59:56]

Cardoe:

but if he sees it they're currently broadcasting it unencrypted

[20:00:00]

tcpsyn:

I'm just saying it did.

[20:00:03]

Cardoe:

they do this all the time

[20:00:05]

tcpsyn:

the little c was a big C

[20:00:09]

tcpsyn:

and I was watching the might ducks.

[20:00:12]

|Torg|:

Cardoe if it wasnt encrytped myth woudlnt have flagged it C or c, it simply woudlnt be there

[20:00:22]

Cardoe:

|Torg|: it does

[20:00:36]

Cardoe:

|Torg|: you're clearly not listening

[20:00:51]

tcpsyn:

oh christ, I got oprah

[20:00:52]

|Torg|:

no im reading dvbsignalmonitor.cpp

[20:00:59]

laga_:

AFAIk there is a encryption flag in the stream

[20:01:00]

stuarta:

it must depend on whether the channel announces itself as being encrypted

[20:01:17]

Cardoe:

It's simply that the channel has the "encrypted flag" on

[20:01:25]

Cardoe:

and currently the stream is not encrypted

[20:01:29]

tcpsyn:

alright folks, thanks for your help for now, I'll be back in a bit to try to fix it up.

[20:01:29]

Cardoe:

he's not decrypting anything

[20:01:38]

Cardoe:

With comcast is happens ALL THE TIME

[20:01:50]

Beirdo:

comcast sounds pretty stoopid

[20:02:01]

stuarta:

heh

[20:02:05]

tjcarter:

Beirdo: never have I read a more accurate statement in this channel.

[20:03:12]

Cardoe:

as is Cox

[20:03:14]

Cardoe:

who I currently have

[20:03:23]

|Torg|:

ok Cardoe I belive you but it would mean the chanel had the encrytion flag set, ANY mythtv somehow decrytped it

[20:03:37]

Cardoe:

|Torg|: MythTV DID NOT DECRYPT IT

[20:03:46]

|Torg|:

it has to have both kDTVSigMon_CryptSeen and kDTVSigMon_CryptMatch

[20:03:47]

Cardoe:

It was broadcast unencrypted

[20:03:58]

Cardoe:

And the flag was merely set

[20:04:06]

Beirdo:

wondering if my cable provider is QAM or not... need splitter

[20:04:23]

stuarta:

broadcasters have a habit of not setting things 100% correctly

[20:04:30]

tjcarter:

I do greatly appreciate that I regularly get calls from Charter who want to sell me digital cable..

[20:04:30]

tjcarter:

I tell them I have Minet and they sigh audibly =D

[20:04:53]

Cardoe:

Cox sets the station ids as "" now

[20:05:02]

Cardoe:

rather then WOGX or whatever their real names are

[20:05:12]

Cardoe:

Comcast sets the pids for audio/video incorrect

[20:05:36]

Beirdo:

yeah, the one OTA channel I get... they say the audio channel is English... on a Spanish-only channel

[20:05:54]

Beirdo:

I'd bet the cable would be even more clueless

[20:07:32]

stuarta:

that doesn't surprise me in the slightest

[20:07:55]

gbee:

does anyone know what spec Digital Cable in the US actually uses? Is it DVB-C as I thought or some variation of ATSC?

[20:08:11]

|Torg|:

they use qam256

[20:08:12]

stuarta:

gbee: normally QAM64 ATSC

[20:08:45]

tjcarter:

so, who's working on cracking QAM ;)

[20:08:55]

tzanger:

I have a few DVB-S2 NIMs from Taiwan

[20:08:59]

gbee:

|Torg|: that's not a valid answer, it's either DVB-C or ATSC :)

[20:09:05]

stuarta:

!trout tjcarter cluebat

[20:09:05]

** MythLogBot slaps tjcarter with a cluebat trout on behalf of stuarta... **

[20:09:25]

tjcarter:

stuarta: what, DRM has no right to exist.

[20:09:34]

|Torg|:

ok gbee im only going on what is int he docs for the dvb cards, they call it qam256

[20:09:36]

gbee:

as I clearly wasted by breath saying earlier, QAM is not a digital broadcast specification

[20:09:41]

|Torg|:

I dont use qam256, I use ATSC

[20:09:49]

stuarta:

tjcarter: QAM is a line encoding, not an encryption system

[20:10:05]

fryfrog:

|Torg|: what kind of ant?

[20:10:24]

stuarta:

okay, hands up who knows there 3 or 7 layer TCP models?

[20:10:25]

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[20:10:28]

|Torg|:

winecard

[20:10:34]

tjcarter:

ah, so the encryption system would have to be cracked for each individual carrier

[20:10:34]

tjcarter:

sometimes by region

[20:10:36]

tjcarter:

That could be annoyingly complex.

[20:10:38]

fryfrog:

*three*?

[20:10:45]

gbee:

if I broadcast an mp3 using morse code, it would still be an mp3 not a "morse code"

[20:10:46]

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[20:10:50]

tzanger:

fryfrog: wire, packet, application. :-)

[20:10:50]

fryfrog:

i've only heard of the 7 layer model, but i'm not sure if i could throw out all 7 layers :p

[20:10:54]

tjcarter:

Especially since legitimate implementations could be upgraded at the drop of a hat to break it..

[20:10:56]

fryfrog:

ahhh

[20:11:09]

stuarta:

there's the overly complicated osi 7 layer version and the one the rest of us use.

[20:11:23]

stuarta:

righto this is how it is.

[20:11:23]

fryfrog:

i like the 3 layer model :)

[20:11:30]

|Torg|:

fryfrog its a winecard directional array antenna, ala 1970's. I have the exact model somewhere if you need it

[20:11:37]

stuarta:

QAM & PSK ~= wire layer

[20:11:40]

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[20:11:43]

tjcarter:

Isn't IP about 3 or 4 layers?

[20:12:04]

fryfrog:

|Torg|: nah, just canceled cable and am maybe going to setup an antenna

[20:12:09]

stuarta:

MPEG ~= packet

[20:12:18]

stuarta:

DVB & ATSC ~= application

[20:12:28]

|Torg|:

fryfrog welcome to the dark side :)

[20:12:34]

stuarta:

tjcarter: 7 if you believe OSI

[20:12:46]

tjcarter:

stuarta: I don't. =)

[20:12:52]

fryfrog:

hehe

[20:13:01]

gbee:

stuarta: nicely explained, far better than my efforts

[20:13:02]

stuarta:

i much prefer the 3 layer model,

[20:13:11]

stuarta:

gbee: thanks

[20:14:16]

stuarta:

technically TCP/IP is layer 4

[20:14:20]

tjcarter:

ATSC functions then at a different level than NTSC entirely

[20:14:26]

tjcarter:

(I bet that causes confusion)

[20:14:42]

stuarta:

ATSC vs NTSC is like apples vs oranges

[20:15:01]

tjcarter:

I happen to like bananas.

[20:15:11]

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[20:15:12]

stuarta:

you can compare ATSC & DVB, or NTSC & PAL

[20:15:28]

stuarta:

whilst eating the banana

[20:15:40]

tjcarter:

right, wfm.

[20:17:02]

|Torg|:

ok stuarta but my atsc cards have dvb drivers, and show up as /dev/dvb/adpater0, etc. And myth recngises them as dvb cards as well.

[20:17:11]

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[20:17:11]

|Torg|:

so you can see where my confusion comes from

[20:17:21]

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[20:17:39]

stuarta:

|Torg|: well yeah, at the low level ATSC & DVB are very similar

[20:18:06]

stuarta:

the dvb part comes from the fact that it's the dvb project that first supported the hardware

[20:18:07]

tekny:

Hey, hi, i'm looking at the dell sx270 to install the frontends in my house.. it has a dvi connector but i think it can't do tv-out.. anyone can confirm?

[20:18:26]

stuarta:

tekny: ask dell?

[20:18:49]

tekny:

stuarta; sure, i just did, there technical people just suck

[20:19:03]

tekny:

+y

[20:19:08]

** stuarta knows even less about dell hardware than dell. **

[20:19:27]

stuarta:

apart from 1550's are obsolete pieces of crap

[20:19:35]

tekny:

no prob, maybe someone else knows more

[20:19:46]

|Torg|:

tekny the sx270 is just a desktop computer, what video card it is is more what you want to know

[20:19:57]

tekny:

yep, it'I

[20:20:04]

tjcarter:

why would anyone want TV out when they have DVI anyway?

[20:20:19]

directhex:

tjcarter, lack of HD sets

[20:20:45]

tjcarter:

directhex: To be pitied.

[20:20:46]

tekny:

I agree, it's the integrated 865G chipset

[20:20:47]

clever:

how would a peice of code in the backend fetch the status(slave/master) ?

[20:20:54]

tjcarter:

directhex: of course, I don't have ANY set. =D

[20:21:08]

tekny:

yeah, i just have old crt TVs

[20:21:26]

tjcarter:

CRTs are precisely why I have no sets.

[20:21:32]

tjcarter:

I can't stand the noise.

[20:21:47]

tekny:

they're humming in the living room

[20:21:52]

tekny:

zen

[20:22:15]

tjcarter:

it's not a hum, it's an EEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[20:22:26]

tjcarter:

which just grates on my synapses.

[20:22:31]

clever:

i can hear the high freq from my tv's

[20:22:36]

** directhex agrees, cannot use a CRT comfortably **

[20:22:38]

clever:

and sometimes my crt's

[20:22:44]

|Torg|:

turn up the surround sound :)

[20:22:47]

GreyFoxx:

clever: I'd check out programs/mythbackend/httpstatus.cpp

[20:22:59]

GreyFoxx:

that's the code that generates the XML/html backend status page

[20:23:13]

** GreyFoxx heads home **

[20:23:28]

clever:

thanks

[20:23:45]

tekny:

so, i didn't buy the sx270 yet but i'm looking for a cheap sff frontend for my house.. i would prefer already built pc like dell/compaq/hp .. requirements would be dvd+s-video+cutebox

[20:23:50]

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[20:24:17]

directhex:

apple

[20:24:24]

tekny:

mini thing?

[20:24:33]

directhex:

yeah. they're cute in the extreme!

[20:25:45]

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[20:25:47]

iamlindoro:

As of yesterday, they're now Core 2 Duos too

[20:25:53]

tjcarter:

No mythfrontend for Apple TV yet. =(

[20:26:02]

directhex:

iamlindoro, yes indeedy!

[20:26:14]

tjcarter:

Apple TV is very cute.

[20:26:16]

directhex:

tjcarter, no optical drive though. how can you watch porno dvds without an optical drive?

[20:26:27]

tjcarter:

porn isn't my thing.

[20:26:37]

tekny:

650$US

[20:26:41]

tekny:

that's not cheap!

[20:26:44]

iamlindoro:

Tj, sure there is, you can run the mac frontend and just make sure you put the app on your hacked AppleTV hard drive

[20:26:55]

directhex:

tekny, try & get student discount on one

[20:27:03]

iamlindoro:

that is to say, hack Mac OS on to it, and run the os X mythFrontend

[20:27:58]

tekny:

i can't beleive any of those sff computers from dell/compaq/hp got the possibility of having a tv-out without installing another video card by an agp or pci card

[20:28:20]

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[20:29:33]

directhex:

why would they? that's not a use case they're sold for

[20:29:56]

tekny:

almost true

[20:30:04]

tekny:

they are normally POS

[20:30:13]

tekny:

tv-out could be useful

[20:30:42]

directhex:

i've never seen a POS system with a TV plugged into it

[20:31:34]

kslater:

off topic a bit, but does anyone know if ffmpeg can decode h.264 so that it can be reecoded to something less taxing?

[20:31:52]

directhex:

kslater, yes, but quality will suffer andd file size will bloat

[20:32:17]

tjcarter:

iamlindoro: the Mac fontend is ... not very good. =(

[20:32:37]

tjcarter:

iamlindoro: it does not support any aspect but 4:3 for one

[20:33:27]

iamlindoro:

Works fine in full screen on my Macbook pro

[20:33:36]

tjcarter:

you can't use the guide while watching a video (comes up behind the video!), some other such bugs

[20:33:43]

tjcarter:

does your w key do anything?

[20:34:04]

iamlindoro:

couldn't tell you right now, have my macbook but my backend is at home

[20:34:22]

directhex:

the entire imac range is ATI-based now, so worthless for linux :(

[20:34:33]

tjcarter:

or s?

[20:34:33]

** tjcarter is using the year-old collectivity builds admittedly **

[20:34:33]

tjcarter:

I can't get Qt3 to build on my Mac =(

[20:36:38]

gbee:

kslater: yes, it can transcode it to another format which requires less CPU for playback, but as directhex says the filesize will increase (h.264 has better compression but at the cost of CPU cycles in decoding), you may also see a decrease in quality but I'm not sure that is necessarily going to be the case unless you cap the bitrate of the resulting file

[20:37:37]

Beirdo:

gbee: you think I should compile in debug or release mode (from SVN trunk)? I'm leaning towards debug but dunno if there's some disadvantage to that

[20:37:53]

directhex:

gbee, there'll be a guaranteed decrease due to the different quantizations between the formats not overlapping (i.e. h264 artefacts will be kept, and foocodec artefacts added). the severity and noticability depends on bitrates and eyesight

[20:38:17]

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[20:38:40]

Jenetik:

is zap2it down now?

[20:38:47]

directhex:

Jenetik, welcome to months ago

[20:38:49]

Beirdo:

Is it Sept 1?

[20:39:04]

Jenetik:

directhex: it hasn't been down for months jackoff

[20:39:19]

Beirdo:

easy, Jenetik...

[20:39:49]

directhex:

Jenetik, zap2it is dead. a bloated corpse.

[20:40:10]

Jenetik:

I like to fuck rigor mortis carcasses

[20:40:31]

Beirdo:

cut it out, let's keep this place somewhat family friendly, K?

[20:40:42]

fryfrog:

yeah, you bunch of fucking assholes

[20:41:09]

Jenetik:

family friendly

[20:41:09]

Jenetik:

HEH

[20:41:13]

** Beirdo sighs **

[20:41:41]

Jenetik:

Hello e-friends, Welcome to #mythtv-users ::: //////\\\\\\ WELCOME //////\\\ ::::

[20:42:00]

** kormoc gives Jenetik a evil glare **

[20:42:31]

** tekny somewhere over the rainbow **

[20:42:32]

Jenetik:

whats that wiki page with the info about the zap2it replacement?

[20:42:43]

Beirdo:

!trout Jenetik topic

[20:42:43]

** MythLogBot slaps Jenetik with a topic trout on behalf of Beirdo... **

[20:42:50]

fryfrog:

see /topic and you'll find the url to the replacement

[20:43:05]

Jenetik:

there are 5 URLs

[20:43:23]

Beirdo:

Hmmm, which one looks like it might be about the listings?

[20:43:26]

|Torg|:

go to wiki.mtyhtv.org there is a link on top

[20:43:27]

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[20:43:28]

Jenetik:

pastebin?

[20:43:31]

tekny:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Schedules_Direct

[20:43:37]

gbee:

directhex: true, all depends on just how high or low the quality of the original file is

[20:44:00]

directhex:

gbee, indeed. i've been absolutely *tender loving* livid at the quality of some of my DVDs

[20:44:15]

kormoc:

Jenetik, stop being an idiot, it's no way to get any help

[20:44:58]

|Torg|:

http://www.schedulesdirect.org/

[20:45:22]

Jenetik:

so you have to pay for schedulesdirect?

[20:45:32]

Beirdo:

yes

[20:45:35]

|Torg|:

did you read what was on the web page?

[20:45:47]

Jenetik:

torg: I can't read really

[20:45:56]

|Torg|:

Membership dues will be billed through PayPal and will be offered to non-commercial users in the United States and Canada.

[20:46:02]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +o kormoc

[20:46:02]

|Torg|:

that implies there will be a fee

[20:46:03]

gbee:

Beirdo: no real disadvantage to debug mode, I was just discussing with sphery earlier today the possibility than we disable optimisations for a debug build, so if you're using a low spec machine or playing HD then release may be better, but you'll need debug to get good backtraces ....

[20:46:08]

** iamlindoro sounds out the big words **

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[20:46:31]

tekny:

so we don't know how much it will cost...

[20:46:43]

|Torg|:

Information on pricing, terms of service, and a FAQ will be released shortly.

[20:46:49]

|Torg|:

its all on the web page

[20:46:54]

Beirdo:

gbee, cool. Thought so. I'll keep it debug for the backtraces then. I'm compiling for an Athlon XP 2200+ right now (hoping I can use the air2pc on the cable)

[20:46:56]

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[20:47:06]

** kormoc eyes Jenetik **

[20:47:07]

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[20:47:08]

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[20:47:23]

Jenetik:

why do you keep looking at m

[20:47:29]

tekny:

I still have a free alternative.. my DVB card provide the programming for the same channels I have on cable

[20:47:51]

Beirdo:

we tend to keep an eye on troublemakers..

[20:47:56]

tekny:

not as much ahead in time but 24 or 48 hours is enough

[20:48:02]

Jenetik:

yeah, I'm out of control dude

[20:48:20]

|Torg|:

yes tekny its called EIT, at most 3 days worth of guide

[20:48:30]

** Jenetik thinks of all the troublemaking he can do on IRC **

[20:49:17]

tekny:

is there any way of linking channels from a source to another so the EIT would be transferred?

[20:49:31]

kormoc:

Jenetik, might not want to push your luck...

[20:49:52]

|Torg|:

tekny you mean the PMT?

[20:50:36]

tjcarter:

kormoc: I don't know, there's nothing like going into efnet #Macintosh and asking if you can install Vista on the new iMac..

[20:50:49]

tekny:

?PMT

[20:50:57]

directhex:

tjcarter, you can!

[20:51:38]

directhex:

tjcarter, my office pc: http://apebox.org/imglibrary.php?section=thre . . . IMG_0121.JPG

[20:51:38]

tjcarter:

directhex: I know, but #Macintosh is dominated by non-OS X users, in fact, a lot of them use and love (and violently reject) PowerPC and newer Macs..

[20:52:23]

directhex:

tjcarter, yeah, that happens. our local LUG seems to have an unhealthy number of people who obsess over sparc/solaris, and pay actual money for that *doodie*

[20:52:29]

tjcarter:

that's rEFIt?

[20:52:41]

tjcarter:

ah, yes it is.

[20:52:59]

directhex:

tjcarter, it was the best value linux workstation for my requirements

[20:53:01]

Beirdo:

hey, directhex... sparc/solaris is sweet... :) I wish my wife would bring home a terminator for my E4500 :)

[20:53:32]

directhex:

Beirdo, solaris is a worthless operating system built on a stable kernel; sparc is worthless junk even sun laugh out loud about

[20:53:34]

|Torg|:

terminator, you mean a scsi terminator?

[20:53:38]

tjcarter:

directhex: I've just ordered a copy of Parallels.

[20:53:56]

Beirdo:

heh. say what you wish, directhex. :)

[20:54:20]

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[20:54:57]

tjcarter:

I have a GNUish cmdline, so my Mac is fine running its native OS, and I occasionally need Windows, primarily for dealing with DRM (which is to say, exercising my apparent non-right in the United States to strip DRM off any crap I come across because DRM has no right to exist.)

[20:55:02]

directhex:

Beirdo, spoken as a man who had to admin some solaris boxes for a year

[20:55:05]

tjcarter:

;)

[20:55:07]

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[20:55:10]

Beirdo:

a year?

[20:55:24]

Beirdo:

I've been solaris admin a heck of a lot longer than that :)

[20:55:35]

directhex:

Beirdo, until we banished the machines, with the help of a crowbar

[20:55:43]

Beirdo:

as has been my wife

[20:55:51]

Beirdo:

Solaris brings home the bacon here.

[20:56:05]

|Torg|:

Beirdo I coulndt agree more

[20:56:14]

directhex:

all linux now

[20:56:27]

Beirdo:

now HP-UX... there's a shite OS

[20:57:03]

directhex:

jms@orac:~> grep -c processor /proc/cpuinfo

[20:57:03]

directhex:

152

[20:57:06]

directhex:

yay!

[20:57:18]

jams:

aix is stable, just difficult to use

[20:57:50]

Beirdo:

yeah... assuming the job comes through, I should be adminning for pay again soon... Solaris, AIX, Linux and (ick) windoze

[20:58:32]

directhex:

how can i rebuild whatever database table allows fast-forwarding etc?

[20:58:50]

Beirdo:

isn't that a mythcommflag with some options?

[20:59:30]

Mode for #mythtv-users by kormoc!n=kormoc@unaffiliated/kormoc : -o kormoc

[20:59:33]

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[21:00:37]

directhex:

yes indeedy! \o/

[21:02:39]

directhex:

anyway, i've nothing against solaris as a stable kernel – i just consider the userland to be a big cosmic joke where a room of smart men decided to try & make a system that was utterly moronic by default

[21:02:49]

Beirdo:

huh?

[21:03:02]

Beirdo:

Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 are nearly the same userspace as Linux

[21:03:31]

kormoc:

I like solaris 10

[21:03:37]

Beirdo:

me too

[21:03:42]

directhex:

i like nexenta

[21:03:42]

Beirdo:

it will soon have xen in it :)

[21:03:51]

Beirdo:

it's in OpenSolaris right now

[21:05:39]

directhex:

it's the policy of being stupid that gets me. fr'example, let's say you do something like "crontab -e". why does it use ed as its editor, by default? sure, you can change it with $EDITOR, but what possible reason is there for ed as a default? see also: "sh" as default root shell. again, editable, but the defaults are just plain stupid, there's no other word for it

[21:06:03]

Beirdo:

whatever

[21:06:30]

|Torg|:

ed is the standard, like it or not

[21:06:33]

Beirdo:

spoken like a newcomer to the UNIX world :)

[21:06:45]

|Torg|:

vi is what people use, vi improved to be exaxt

[21:06:49]

fryfrog:

our solaris 6 and 7 boxes are always tripping me up :)

[21:06:57]

|Torg|:

and how hard is to export EDITOR?

[21:07:11]

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[21:07:12]

directhex:

|Torg|, it's not. but why is it neccessary?

[21:07:28]

|Torg|:

becasuse you dont want to use the standard editor?

[21:08:31]

fryfrog:

so uh, who really cares?

[21:08:45]

gbee:

I was given an opensolaris 'starter kit' livecd recently, not tried it yet though

[21:08:54]

fryfrog:

i mean, i prefer linux but i'll work on what ever i'm told to :p

[21:09:00]

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[21:10:25]

|Torg|:

what I do find intersting is you like vi, but dislike sparc and solaris. I take it you dislike java as well?

[21:10:58]

bill2or3:

doesn't everyone?

[21:11:01]

Como|Lappy:

^^

[21:11:04]

Como|Lappy:

java hates us all

[21:11:36]

|Torg|:

but hey as long as you pay me ill run you Soalris, HP/UX, AIX or Tru64 boxes

[21:11:59]

|Torg|:

weither they suck or not is irelevent

[21:12:43]

directhex:

i never said i liked vi

[21:12:56]

directhex:

but it's a better default than ed

[21:13:49]

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[21:19:38]

gbee:

doesn't everyone dislike java?

[21:19:52]

gbee:

oh right, someone said that already

[21:20:23]

|Torg|:

no not everyone dislikes java

[21:20:25]

** gbee shouldn't divide his attention between IRC and work **

[21:26:20]

gbee:

damn, just occassionally I wish "Reschedule Higher Priorities" wasn't enabled, now have to wait a week until the repeat is recorded

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[21:29:58]

Jenetik:

anyone recommend a good myth theme?

[21:30:17]

tekny:

what ratio are you using?

[21:30:41]

Anduin:

Jenetik: MythCenter

[21:31:22]

gbee:

blootube-wide (not blootube though), Mepo-wide, possibly Neon-wide

[21:32:30]

gbee:

Mythcenter isn't too bad, although the newer generation of themes are a little more polished imho (Mepo and blootube-wide have much better music screens)

[21:33:47]

Slyboots:

Hmm..

[21:34:03]

Slyboots:

Is there a way to enable Antialisasing, or Vsync when mythtv plays video

[21:34:09]

Slyboots:

I get "tearing" on video

[21:34:14]

Slyboots:

And the OSD looks like *crap*

[21:34:47]

gbee:

Slyboots: which OSD? Some of them look crap no matter what ;)

[21:35:00]

Slyboots:

The default one when I press "M"

[21:35:07]

Slyboots:

The themed peices look fine

[21:35:14]

Anduin:

Slyboots: and yes, you can try OpenGL vsync (if you build with it and enable it), you should also see which is being used.

[21:35:37]

Slyboots:

Im pretty sure I built it with that enabled

[21:35:43]

Slyboots:

But how do I turn it on?

[21:36:06]

Anduin:

Slyboots: The OSD is also drawn at the resolution of the content, if it looks really bad (and isn't a font issue), that is probably it.

[21:36:08]

Jenetik:

wtf, I downloaded MythCenter and put it in the themes dir, doesn't show up when I goto Settings/Apperance for the choices

[21:36:17]

Anduin:

Slyboots: It is in the playback settings.

[21:37:42]

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[21:38:55]

Slyboots:

Right, Thats a bit better :)

[21:39:01]

Slyboots:

now I need to get lircD working..

[21:39:06]

gbee:

Jenetik: where did you download it from? Oh and what path did you install it to?

[21:39:47]

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[21:41:21]

Slyboots:

A good start would be being able to find the sensor

[21:47:06]

Jenetik:

got it from http://mythtv.fotoniq.nl/ and put it in /usr/share/mythtv/themes

[21:49:14]

gbee:

Jenetik: there is a more recent version in the myththemes package

[21:52:08]

gbee:

exactly where you find myththemes depends on whether you are building from source or using packages and whether you are using trunk or 0.20-fixes

[21:53:06]

gbee:

but I don't know why installing MythCenter to the themes directory didn't work for you, unless mythtv was actually installed under /usr/local/share/mythtv/themes

[21:53:26]

Slyboots:

Damn, I've lost my bloody RM reciever

[21:54:05]

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[22:01:15]

JackEStorm:

ahhhh, back with the parts for my new myth box :)

[22:01:22]

juski:

heh. why cry over mythcenter failing to install? I'd call that cause to celebrate

[22:01:33]

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[22:15:07]

juski:

so this user on the ML is talking about mythpictures. wtf is mythpictures?

[22:15:54]

|Torg|:

mtyhgallery perhaps?

[22:16:06]

juski:

whose crazy repo is calling mythgallery 'mythpictures' ?

[22:16:18]

juski:

can we not all sing from the same frickin hymn sheet here?

[22:19:42]

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[22:26:46]

my2keh:

quite the discussions about schedules direct eh?

[22:26:46]

my2keh:

heh

[22:27:09]

juski:

oh please no!

[22:27:15]

juski:

don't talk about them here

[22:27:27]

floppyears:

oh, tv listings won't be free anymore :(

[22:27:38]

|Torg|:

yes they will

[22:27:40]

floppyears:

juski: is there a forum topic or some place to discuss them ?

[22:27:50]

juski:

floppyears: what's to discuss?

[22:28:11]

juski:

you mean 'bitch among yourselves' & generally whine?

[22:28:29]

my2keh:

hahaha

[22:28:32]

my2keh:

I use EIT

[22:28:36]

my2keh:

so I don't really care heh

[22:28:40]

floppyears:

speculation ? isn't that what people do before something is released ?

[22:28:49]

my2keh:

I was more taloking about the people bitching

[22:28:49]

my2keh:

heh

[22:28:49]

juski:

your only other option would be to use screen scrapers, or pay the nice guys

[22:28:57]

my2keh:

OR use EIT

[22:29:07]

my2keh:

only 3 day guide, but you get used to it

[22:29:08]

juski:

or not use EIT if it's not available ;)

[22:29:23]

floppyears:

|Torg|: but the website says that dues will be billed through paypall

[22:29:36]

juski:

anyway hey the whole debacle has done nothing but deepen my admiration for chutt, xris & the rest

[22:29:40]

my2keh:

i'm anxious to see how they do it

[22:29:44]

|Torg|:

if you want to get them from shedulesdirect, yes

[22:29:49]

my2keh:

technically that is

[22:29:50]

floppyears:

my2keh: eit?

[22:29:54]

|Torg|:

that isnt the ONLY place to get scedule information however

[22:29:55]

my2keh:

EIT yes

[22:30:07]

juski:

how the feck they put up with that load of whining minnies is beyond me. I'd have bailed out ages ago if I were them. Good think I'm not

[22:30:20]

floppyears:

|Torg|: what place do you know of ?

[22:30:21]

juski:

s/think/thing

[22:30:32]

|Torg|:

from my DVB cards themsleves

[22:30:35]

floppyears:

my2keh: what is eit ?

[22:30:36]

ger_3d:

juski: have you had a chance to look at the buttons I sendt

[22:30:48]

|Torg|:

my2keh is correct its called EIT

[22:30:57]

juski:

ger_3d: no sorry. theming is the last thing on my mind right now. I never said it'd be a quick process

[22:31:22]

my2keh:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/EIT

[22:31:25]

my2keh:

Event Information Table

[22:31:29]

ger_3d:

juski: no prob havnt had to much time myselv lately

[22:31:29]

my2keh:

basically program information

[22:31:31]

juski:

before you sent the files across I'd started playing with something else – and now that's on the back-burner aswell

[22:31:47]

Slyboots:

Hmm.. Right

[22:31:49]

my2keh:

via dvb

[22:31:59]

Slyboots:

Could it be possible to use the IR sensor from a Xbox 1 console?

[22:32:03]

Slyboots:

With any generic remote?

[22:32:03]

juski:

my2keh: all well & good if you're not in the US

[22:32:08]

juski:

Slyboots: don't be silly

[22:32:09]

Slyboots:

Since.. well its only a IR sensor after all

[22:32:18]

my2keh:

juski>> Well it works in the US as well

[22:32:19]

|Torg|:

juski?

[22:32:25]

Slyboots:

And the Xbox IR reciver is just a USB device

[22:32:26]

|Torg|:

I use it now

[22:32:40]

my2keh:

just have to use "different" methods is all

[22:32:42]

juski:

jesus. let me finish ffs

[22:32:56]

juski:

EIT isn't for everybody

[22:33:04]

gbee:

before starting any debates about schedules direct, at least read Daniel's post to the mailing list – http://www.mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/ . . . /189586.html

[22:33:18]

my2keh:

juski>> true

[22:33:44]

squish102:

my2keh EIT work on dvb card using QAM-256 from cable company?

[22:34:02]

my2keh:

squish102, I don't know...

[22:34:09]

gbee:

and honestly, if you are too cheap to pay $5 a month ...

[22:34:16]

|Torg|:

except gbee it cotains incorrect information, altho on its base it is correct

[22:34:27]

gbee:

|Torg|: incorrect how?

[22:34:44]

floppyears:

my2keh: yeah, I can't use eit since I have sd tv

[22:34:50]

|Torg|:

tax code 501 sets up non taxable entaties, what we refer to as non profit

[22:35:13]

my2keh:

floppyears>> the type of signal (hd or sd) doesn't make a diff

[22:35:15]

|Torg|:

he speciflcy points out 501(c)(3), one of many expctions to the US code, in this case a religious charitble orginzation

[22:35:31]

gbee:

|Torg|: oh I thought you meant something more serious than a tax code mistake ;)

[22:35:34]

juski:

anyway if it shuts the effing hyenas up for 5 minutes it can only be a good thing

[22:35:38]

|Torg|:

its debatlbe if schedulesdirect is in fact a 501 expempt orginization

[22:35:44]

floppyears:

my2keh: oh, that's good do you use eit ?

[22:35:51]

squish102:

gbee, $5 is not much per month, but i guess if i cannot find a free service, i probably will just stop mythtv. i tape the formula one GP and that is about it

[22:36:07]

juski:

call me when all this is over guys

[22:36:07]

GreyFoxx:

in that case it wouldn't be worth the money

[22:36:12]

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[22:36:15]

squish102:

nope

[22:36:16]

my2keh:

floppyears>> Yes, I do

[22:36:24]

GreyFoxx:

but for me the 0.17 a day is more than worth it

[22:36:44]

GreyFoxx:

especially since that price will likely go down as more people signup'

[22:36:48]

|Torg|:

$20 for 12 months is less then I pay in electicity to run the thing

[22:37:14]

floppyears:

what advantages does eit have over schedulesdirect ?

[22:37:22]

GreyFoxx:

floppyears: None

[22:37:24]

floppyears:

my2keh: how well does it work, what kind of info can you get from it ?

[22:37:29]

iamlindoro:

and many disadvantages

[22:37:34]

GreyFoxx:

IT's usally just the next couple days and that's it

[22:37:36]

floppyears:

I'm all ears

[22:37:38]

floppyears:

oh

[22:37:40]

|Torg|:

hmm GreyFoxx its usualy more accurate

[22:37:40]

gbee:

floppyears: apart from price, nothing at all, in the US it's pretty useless apparently

[22:37:41]

GreyFoxx:

usually it's less information that you will get with SD

[22:37:45]

squish102:

|Torg| $20 or $60

[22:37:52]

my2keh:

floppyears>> I find it works well...haven't noticed any problems. It's only a 3 day guide

[22:37:54]

my2keh:

but other then that

[22:37:59]

floppyears:

oh

[22:38:00]

|Torg|:

I currently use EIT to verify accuracy of TMS data, which btw isnt always correct

[22:38:02]

GreyFoxx:

|Torg|: sure, since it will get last minute updates for the next few hours

[22:38:03]

iamlindoro:

in US, no episode titles, and I never get descriptions either

[22:38:11]

iamlindoro:

Just show names and times

[22:38:16]

floppyears:

so what other disadvantages does eit have ?

[22:38:18]

GreyFoxx:

as a supplement it's fine

[22:38:21]

floppyears:

oh

[22:38:24]

gbee:

floppyears: in countries like the UK it's a full seven days of detailed guide data (increasing to 14 days soon)

[22:38:35]

jams:

i couldn't stand eit..only as a last resort

[22:38:36]

my2keh:

I think Dishnetwork offers 14 days

[22:38:49]

|Torg|:

I get 3 days schueld complete with new show flag and eppisode numbering

[22:39:01]

floppyears:

and what does schedulesdirect offer and services similar to it ?

[22:39:34]

|Torg|:

right now they dont offer anything, wait

[22:39:41]

my2keh:

heh

[22:39:49]

gbee:

floppyears: it offers pretty much what datadirect currently offers and there is no similar service

[22:39:55]

** jams wonders if the enhanced data package was purchased **

[22:40:32]

floppyears:

gbee: I don't own a mythtv box yet, the parts will arrive next week

[22:40:41]

floppyears:

gbee: what does it currently offer ?

[22:41:31]

|Torg|:

what datadirect? its simply listing guides. What is on, what time it is on, how long it is, what catagory it is, etc.

[22:41:32]

GreyFoxx:

floppyears: schedulesdirect doesn't offer anything at this very minute

[22:41:44]

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[22:41:55]

gbee:

floppyears: I'm not in North America, but I believe it's a full 7 days of guide data including episode titles, descriptions, film ratings and other info like whether a programme is HD or not

[22:41:57]

GreyFoxx:

|Torg|: There is also a lot of info most people don't take advantage of

[22:42:04]

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[22:42:07]

GreyFoxx:

including actors in the show , director, and lots of other stuff

[22:42:13]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: 14 days

[22:42:14]

iamlindoro:

two weeks, but otherwise, that's right

[22:42:26]

floppyears:

GreyFoxx: oh, I'm talking about the future then :)

[22:42:31]

floppyears:

oh

[22:42:48]

|Torg|:

yes GreyFoxx I wasnt meaning to limit it to that, for me EIT works fine

[22:42:49]

GreyFoxx:

After the cut over to not use the TMS servers later it will hopefully have even more data

[22:43:17]

jams:

thank you greyfoxx, you just answered a question i had from day one

[22:43:32]

jams:

and i'm glad it's being done that way

[22:44:24]

GreyFoxx:

labs.zap2it.com has put up the their announcement today about it

[22:45:18]

|Torg|:

they sent out email about it as well

[22:45:20]

GreyFoxx:

the nice thing about the transition period means we have more time to get ready plus the xmltv/myth/gbpvr changes are almost nothing for now

[22:45:30]

Aval0n:

guys if I have a usb ir sensor, is there a way I can manually get my tv's remote working with myth>?

[22:45:40]

Aval0n:

like record what the button does, then set an action to it?

[22:46:04]

iamlindoro:

*sigh*

[22:46:13]

|Torg|:

Aval0n http://www.lirc.org/html/irrecord.html

[22:46:27]

** iamlindoro curls up into a ball and cries softly **

[22:46:32]

Aval0n:

:)

[22:46:37]

Aval0n:

awesome

[22:46:52]

Aval0n:

so why do ppl have such a hard time getting remotes for mythtv

[22:46:53]

gbee:

floppyears: datadirect was free (you had to fill out some questionnaires which they used to sell statistics to broadcasters or for internal purposes) but the company decided that they couldn't continue a free service, schedules direct is a non-profit company created by mythtv and other PVR developers, they are buying guide data from datadirect (zap2it, TMS) and selling it on to users at cost

[22:46:58]

Aval0n:

when it's as easy as making the one you have work?

[22:47:10]

iamlindoro:

Nobody has a hard time getting a remote for mythtv

[22:47:21]

iamlindoro:

dunces have a hard time making remotes WORK with mythtv

[22:47:47]

gbee:

floppyears: datadirect was setup by Tribune Media Services because it was cheaper for them to give away the data than bare the strain of scripts 'scraping' the data from their website

[22:48:06]

Aval0n:

is there a generic driver for usb IR recievers?

[22:48:21]

iamlindoro:

no, you need a supported receiver and htey have different modules

[22:48:26]

iamlindoro:

google "lirc howto"

[22:48:35]

Aval0n:

I have a kworld remote

[22:48:44]

Aval0n:

and a hauppage I"m sure I can get one working

[22:48:48]

Aval0n:

hauppauge*

[22:48:53]

iamlindoro:

yes, that should work

[22:48:53]

Aval0n:

cool thanks

[22:49:00]

floppyears:

thanks gbee

[22:49:05]

|Torg|:

Aval0n its a serial to serial interface, relativly simple to make. But there are quite a few difernt hardware implimenations (given the number of coices in lirc).

[22:49:25]

Aval0n:

gbee I swear I recognize you from somewhere

[22:49:42]

iamlindoro:

what is it, his familiar face?

[22:50:57]

Aval0n:

yeah

[22:50:58]

gbee:

Aval0n: so you said the other day, but I don't recognise your nick – if you could give me a clue where I might narrow it down

[22:51:00]

Aval0n:

something like that

[22:51:04]

Aval0n:

hmm

[22:51:10]

Aval0n:

efnet perhaps

[22:51:19]

Aval0n:

where you ever in conquest?

[22:51:25]

Aval0n:

or any xbox dev chans?

[22:51:33]

Aval0n:

UIX thc?

[22:52:22]

gbee:

don't think I was ever in any channel on efnet

[22:52:49]

gbee:

just freenode and quakenet a few years back

[22:53:11]

gbee:

when I still played computer games

[22:53:35]

directhex:

yay for quakenet

[22:53:48]

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[22:53:53]

directhex:

that's a proper way to learn irc behaviour, without all the child porn of undernet

[22:54:20]

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[22:56:05]

gbee:

I can be found lurking around the #m560x driver project occassionally (having been the one to start it) but otherwise that's the limit of my IRC exposure

[22:58:15]

directhex:

nobody really seems to have shown an interest in my last driver. although it is a bit of a bodge job

[22:59:16]

gbee:

I never really did any work on my driver, got plenty of interest and some guys who were more motivated than me did most of the work ;)

[22:59:52]

gbee:

s/most/all/

[23:00:06]

directhex:

my driver's actually useful :o

[23:00:13]

directhex:

although in desperate need of refinement

[23:00:38]

gbee:

mine wasn't, although I didn't decide that until after I'd started working on it

[23:00:46]

gbee:

who uses a webcam anyway?

[23:01:10]

directhex:

mine's a remote driver :x

[23:02:34]

gbee:

although it was a 1.3MP camera which wasn't too bad, it's built into the lid of my laptop meaning I'm unlikely to ever use it as camera (as opposed to a webcam which I'd never use)

[23:03:30]

laga_:

quakenet? learn IRC behaviour? wasn't quakenet full of people with color scripts?

[23:03:51]

laga_:

thank god i'm not prejudiced ;)

[23:03:59]

gbee:

mirc scripting was all the rage 10 years ago, so yes

[23:04:20]

directhex:

laga_, it makes you more thick skinned than freenode

[23:04:25]

directhex:

freenode's home of dwama

[23:04:28]

laga_:

heh

[23:04:34]

laga_:

i started in IRCnet i gues

[23:04:42]

directhex:

"oh, you said my shoes are the wrong shade of brown, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! /part"

[23:04:51]

directhex:

Â¬_Â¬

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[23:13:13]

NightMonkey:

Yay to all the schedulesdirect.org work! :)

[23:14:09]

floppyears:

so I will be installing mythtv in a machine running unbunt. Which one of the thousands of thousands of howtos and guides would you guys suggest ?

[23:14:17]

floppyears:

is there one that stands out ?

[23:15:32]

directhex:

floppyears, you want a backend, frontend, or both?

[23:15:50]

floppyears:

it'll be both a frontend and backend

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[23:16:20]

directhex:

floppyears, install the "mythtv" package. and read everything that gets flashed on your screen

[23:16:26]

laga_:

floppyears: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV

[23:16:30]

laga_:

directhex: no.

[23:16:35]

laga_:

directhex: please always refer people to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV

[23:16:48]

laga_:

that's the official guide for mythtv on ubuntu

[23:17:11]

juski:

FWIW, it's worth reading. if you're gonna do ANY reading about mythtv on ubuntu

[23:17:20]

laga_:

wb juski

[23:17:26]

juski:

seriously, you do not stand a cat in hell's chance otherwise!

[23:17:34]

directhex:

O_o

[23:17:52]

directhex:

ISTR you had to actively be working against it for it to not be foolproof these days

[23:18:04]

laga_:

well

[23:18:06]

directhex:

e.g. "well i thought i'd change my mysql root password but i forgotted it" kind of thing

[23:18:12]

juski:

ok thats a broad generalisation but not everybody is intelligent enough to know mythtv inside out already

[23:18:40]

laga_:

directhex: it looks like it's not foolproof enough :> he should install mythtv-backend-master and mythtv, if anything.

[23:18:47]

juski:

if you just sit there in front of synaptic, you don't stand a chance

[23:19:07]

laga_:

if you just install "mythtv", it won't pull in mysql-server AFAIK

[23:19:43]

** laga_ tries again to build a mythbuntu iso containing trunk packages **

[23:19:57]

directhex:

laga_, mythtv Depends: mysql-server

[23:20:16]

floppyears:

thanks

[23:20:29]

floppyears:

it's just that someone in here had suggested compiling it from source

[23:20:31]

laga_:

directhex: i stand corrected. thanks.

[23:20:44]

laga_:

that's not necessary in most cases

[23:21:01]

floppyears:

juski: yeah, that help ubuntu site is something that I'm reading now thanks :)

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