Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, July 26th, 2007, 00:02 UTC

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dstarchman:

quick question about user job system privileges (probably obvious). I'm trying to set up a mencoder user job, and mencoder executes with the correct arguments, but mencoder complains that it can't create the output file (observed in mythbackend.log). I can execute the same generated command from a terminal window as the mythtv user (sudo -u mythtv mencoder yadda yadda) and it runs fine. Any ideas? Any help is greatly appreciated

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clever:

dstarchman: try sudo -u mythtv -i

[00:48:36]

clever:

dstarchman: then in the mythtv shell try the cmd

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varun_:

I have a rear projection TV whose resolution is 1280x720. When I play movies that have a 1280x720 resolution (the res is reported by mplayer) they don't fill up the screen. They appear shorter and wider than 1280x720. Is that normal? If the res is the same as my TV, shouldn't it fill it up perfectly?

[00:54:01]

Tanthrix:

varun_: You have to make an aspect ratio adjustment in your mplayer conf file

[00:54:05]

Tanthrix:

For widescreen sets

[00:55:00]

Tanthrix:

varun_: monitorpixelaspect=1 in my ~/.mplayer/config does the trick

[00:55:46]

Tanthrix:

If you want to test it first, just do mplayer file.avi -monitorpixelaspect=1

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clever:

my tv can display the incoming signal as 4:3 or widescreen

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clever:

and with -monitoraspect i can set that

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clever:

so the pc knows

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dstarchman:

clever: thanks for the input. sadly, no I can't use "-i". Errors out with "file not found" for mencoder (or any other command)--I'm guessing because mythtv isn't a user with an environment. Strangely, I can issue "sudo -u mythtv mencoder ...." from the shell, and that works great. The problem is the same command "mencoder..." issued as a user job errors out with mencoder reporting "Can't create output file".

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clever:

dstarchman: you could manualy set PATH to fix filenotfound errors

[01:04:43]

dstarchman:

set PATH for mythtv user?

[01:04:50]

clever:

you could make a shell script which runs id and pwd then mencoder

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clever:

so you can see what user its under and what folder

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clever:

then have the userjob run the shellscript

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dstarchman:

hmm...that'll be good debug output.

[01:05:51]

clever:

yep

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clever:

i did the same with my channel changer

[01:06:11]

clever:

first version dumped $* to a txt file

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clever:

which i closely monitered and changed for it

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clever:

after i got lirc going i added a line to it to call the lirc changer

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dstarchman:

It's running as mythtv under folder "/".

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clever:

dstarchman: it could be trying to write to /output.avi

[01:27:54]

dstarchman:

I'm wondering if I screwed up the initial install. I didn't create the mythtv user and then install under that log-in. I thought it would create the user for me.

[01:28:20]

clever:

when i installed it in ubuntu it made the mythtv username

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clever:

and the database(asked me for root's pw in mysql)

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dstarchman:

Does it show up in users and groups/

[01:28:41]

clever:

and it was version 0.18

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clever:

even after i uninstalled it the database and username stayed there

[01:29:06]

clever:

then i compiled svn trunk under that username and ran it under that

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dstarchman:

for me, mythtv isn't in visible in Users and Groups. The group is visible, but the "mythtv" user isn't.

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clever:

uid=123(mythtv) gid=123(mythtv) groups=24(cdrom),29(audio),44(video),46(plugdev),123(mythtv),1000(clever)

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clever:

the gui program might be hiding it

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clever:

try grep mythtv /etc/passwd

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dstarchman:

Yeah, there's a mythtv user there. I tried restarting the backend as "root". no change

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clever:

some gui programs hide system user accounts

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clever:

and user accounts start at 1000

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clever:

my mythtv is uid 123 so it would be hiden thinking its a system atc

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[01:31:07]

clever:

how are you starting mythbackend atm?

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dstarchman:

it starts up from /etc/init.d (sorry I'm somewhat of a linux newbie)

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toad-six:

so i'm using nuvexport, and have noticed that if i use --debug, and run the commands manually, ffmpeg will use 99% cpu and transcode at about 30fps...however, if i just run nuvexport in its normal mode, ffmpeg never goes above 30% cpu, and i get about 5fps...why is this?

[01:32:25]

clever:

start that up normaly(/etc/init.d/... start) then check to see what user its running under(ps aux|grep mythba)

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clever:

mythtv 9225 0.0 9.7 150844 24860 pts/7 Sl Jul24 0:09 mythbackend

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clever:

thats a normal line showing it running under mythtv with pid 9225 and it was started on jul24th

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dstarchman:

mythtv 13108 0.4 1.3 169564 20804 ? Ssl 20:33 0:00 /usr/bin/mythbackend --daemon --logfile /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log --pidfile /var/run/mythtv/mythbackend.pid

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clever:

yep its running as the mythtv username

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clever:

the init.d script probly has a sudo or su in it

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clever:

try echo $PATH

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clever:

then sudo -i -u mythtv

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clever:

then export PATH=whatever echo showed

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clever:

that will 'fix' your PATH back to what it was before you switched to mythtv

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clever:

so mencoder and mythbackend will probly work in that shell

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clever:

brb

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keith4_:

fucking IMDB

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keith4_:

someone remind me how to get the new imdb scripts from cvs?

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olds:

wget http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . l?format=raw

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clever:

back

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keith4_:

olds: thanks

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clever:

that doesnt look like cvs:P

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olds:

there isn't a cvs repository

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keith4_:

whatever

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keith4_:

the end justifies the means

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olds:

I knew what he meant

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keith4_:

i couldn've sworn that last time i got it from somewhere else... but whatever

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keith4_:

... last time I had all of these files:

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keith4_:

allocine.pl imdb.pl ofdb.pl README scripts

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keith4_:

allocine.pl.orig imdb.pl.orig ofdb.pl.orig README.orig

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keith4_:

...or something like that

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varun_:

Tanthrix: here to save me again! :-) (sorry I needed to go afk, I'll try that right now)

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keith4_:

is there any way to run the imdb.pl in batch?

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keith4_:

and why isn't there a nice, xml-based API to imdb?

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hads:

keith4_: Umm, ask IMDB?

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varun_:

Tanthrix: you are a god among men

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hads:

keith4_: If you want to run it 'in batch' then you'll need to script it.

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hads:

find_meta.py in trunk may do what you want though.

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keith4_:

hads: no, not quite

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keith4_:

although it is interesting

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hads:

Then you'll need to script something yourself.

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[02:24:23]

k-man:

anyone here use 2 ir devices simultaneously?

[02:24:35]

k-man:

do you have to run 2 instances of lircd to do that?

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keith4_:

that sounds dangerous

[02:24:55]

k-man:

not at all

[02:25:01]

k-man:

why would it be dangerous

[02:25:12]

keith4_:

why would you do that?

[02:25:27]

keith4_:

i'm not saying you shouldn't, i'm just curious

[02:25:41]

k-man:

because i want to experiment with a new remote before dissabling my old remote

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k-man:

as its a production machine... too scary to just ditch the old remote

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keith4_:

"production"?

[02:27:45]

k-man:

yeah

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k-man:

for watching tv

[02:28:01]

k-man:

people get angry if they cant watch tv

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kormoc:

yes, you'll need to run two lircd's

[02:29:13]

kormoc:

but really, just copy the lird.conf over, get the new remote working, if it doesn't, copy the old one back

[02:29:34]

k-man:

kormoc, ok

[02:29:37]

k-man:

thanks

[02:29:41]

k-man:

no, i want to get both working

[02:29:47]

k-man:

simmultaneously

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kormoc:

not sure if lircd can do so

[02:30:27]

kormoc:

I know to get a irblaster and remote working, it requries two lircds, but only one is listening and one sending at a time

[02:30:33]

kormoc:

not sure if two can receive at once

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k-man:

kormoc, from what I read you have to tell the second instance to talk through the first so the ir commands show up on /dev/lircd

[02:33:59]

k-man:

kormoc, maybe your right, i should just change over

[02:34:06]

k-man:

and make a backup so i can go back if I want to

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Tanthrix:

varun_: Hehe. Glad it worked! (I had the same problem when I first got my widescreen set – took some googling to finally track that down)

[02:43:02]

varun_:

Tanthrix: I probably wouldn't be running mythtv right now if it weren't for all your help!! lol

[02:43:40]

varun_:

Tanthrix: so the man page says that a value of 1 means a "square pixel". How does that make the video display correctly?

[02:43:45]

Tanthrix:

Well, I'm sure that's not true, but I'm very happy to help out. The same goes for me; I got a ton of help here a few years back when I was getting setup, so I feel indebted to return the favor

[02:44:11]

Tanthrix:

varun_: You know, I'm not exactly sure. There was a page that described it though, one sec

[02:44:36]

varun_:

Tanthrix: yea I know what you mean. I hang out in #ubuntu all the time, trying to repay the debt of many years of many helpful souls

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Tanthrix:

Hrm, can't seem to find the page that explains it.

[02:49:44]

Tanthrix:

Basically, I think that the deal is that mplayer assumes you're using a 4:3 monitor for all displays by default. And even when your resolution isn't 4:3 (like 720p) it assumes you're using a set that has non-square pixels

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Tanthrix:

(IE, a set that is 4:3, yet does not at a 4:3 resolution, reverse is true for some Plasma sets that are widescreen but have a resolution of 1024x768)

[02:50:41]

Tanthrix:

So, you have to tell it your pixels are square, so it behaves appropriately.

[02:51:05]

Tanthrix:

Dumb behavior – it really should just play it based on the resolution since only a few sets have non-square pixels as far as I know, but so goes life ;)

[02:51:26]

varun_:

Tanthrix: that's really interesting

[02:52:11]

Tanthrix:

I suspect they'll change it at some point

[02:52:31]

Tanthrix:

Though, as it is well known, all developers are cranky jerks resistent to change ;)

[02:52:50]

Tanthrix:

(As I'm sure I would be if I put my heart and soul into making a program!)

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varun_:

Tanthrix: I suppose it's because mplayer is mostly used on PCs? And most PC monitors (though it's changing) are 4:3?

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kormoc:

varun_, more cause there's no real way to detect it, you can guess at the res, but that's not always valid, and you can just override mplayer in the ~/.mplayer.conf file or the like

[03:01:15]

kormoc:

see man mplayer

[03:01:16]

varun_:

kormoc: yea that makes sense, too

[03:03:41]

Tanthrix:

The resolution is more accurate than it is inaccurate, so they've got things the wrong way in my opinion.

[03:04:14]

Tanthrix:

Let the people with the weird non-square pixelled sets override mplayer ;)

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[03:38:37]

bmk789:

mythweather is bugged for me, im assuming its the script that downloads the information, can i just replace this file with a newer version?

[03:39:13]

Anduin:

bmk789: are you running from trunk?

[03:39:26]

bmk789:

im using ubuntu feisty's repos

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captlloyd:

Ok, been reading the forums, have found many posts but no solutions. Just installed my PVR-150, card is working fine, can use ivtv-tune and cat to get video out of the card, but all I get is a black screen when I try to watch live TV in myth

[03:40:20]

Anduin:

bmk789: The released version is broken and will not be fixed (there was a patch somewhere, trunk has moved to weather-revamp)

[03:40:24]

captlloyd:

anyone here have this problem and find a solution?

[03:41:00]

bmk789:

Anduin: how should i go about replacing the plugin?

[03:41:16]

Anduin:

captlloyd: It could be many things, wrong input being one

[03:41:22]

hads:

bmk789: You'd have to upgrade to trunk if you want to do that.

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[03:42:41]

captlloyd:

This is the error I get: NVR: Won't work with the streaming interface, falling back VIDIOCGMBUF:: Invalid argument

[03:43:11]

captlloyd:

THen it kicks me back to the menu after a minute

[03:43:25]

captlloyd:

does it still sound like an input issue?

[03:43:42]

Tanthrix:

captlloyd: Is the card setup as a "MPEG-2 encoder card" or analog v4l capture card?

[03:43:50]

Tanthrix:

(In mythtv-setup)

[03:44:39]

captlloyd:

V4L

[03:45:08]

hads:

Thears yer problem

[03:45:16]

Tanthrix:

What he said.

[03:45:19]

captlloyd:

Thanks :)

[03:45:41]

Tanthrix:

Anyway to make mythtv-setup NOT give the v4l option for the PVR-150? That's like the third person in a week to come in here with that same problem

[03:46:08]

dr_willis:

ive never noticed it befor.

[03:46:14]

captlloyd:

yeah, I plugged the card in, and it just automatically selected that, started finding channels, so I assumed it was correct

[03:46:37]

dr_willis:

oh. ya mean the default setting of v4l – instead of the pvrx50 thing?

[03:47:04]

Tanthrix:

I mean, it doesn't work, so why the hell does it default to it?

[03:47:11]

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[03:47:57]

dr_willis:

Ive only had the 1 card.. so i assume it just defaulted to the top item in the pulldown menus

[03:48:13]

dr_willis:

cant say that it selects the right item for ANY card.. :)

[03:48:27]

Tanthrix:

Good point.

[03:48:41]

hads:

Yeah, it's just the top item selected isn't it.

[03:49:03]

dr_willis:

a slighty better done setup wizard would be nice..

[03:49:20]

dr_willis:

but then ANYONE could be using mythtv, not just us leet-haxors!

[03:49:21]

dr_willis:

:p

[03:49:33]

Tanthrix:

hehe

[03:50:09]

dr_willis:

And yes. i did put forth the effort and read the docs when setting up my muthtv. :) and the first time i did leave it at v4l

[03:50:16]

dr_willis:

then i went back and looked at all the settings

[03:50:49]

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[03:52:45]

captlloyd:

Hmm, now I'm getting a different error, hehe on to more reading

[03:52:53]

Tanthrix:

What error?

[03:53:00]

captlloyd:

MPEGRec(/dev/video0) Error: Could not set MPEG controls

[03:53:24]

Tanthrix:

Is /dev/video0 your card? (ie, does mplayer /dev/video0 give you video?)

[03:53:28]

captlloyd:

yes

[03:54:06]

captlloyd:

'cat /dev/video0 | mplayer -' works fine

[03:54:32]

captlloyd:

same user account, so permissions should not be a problem

[03:55:05]

Tanthrix:

Anything before it?

[03:55:31]

captlloyd:

I've got 4 lines that might be relevant, should I pastebin them?

[03:55:38]

Tanthrix:

Aye

[03:56:00]

captlloyd:

http://pastebin.com/m1c5ce277

[03:57:41]

Tanthrix:

Hrm, nothing much good on the mailing list

[03:57:49]

Tanthrix:

What version of myth are you using?

[03:57:56]

captlloyd:

0.20

[03:58:17]

captlloyd:

compiled from a tarball on the website

[03:58:21]

Tanthrix:

Might try 0.20-fixes, or trunk

[03:58:41]

Tanthrix:

Via SVN

[03:59:21]

Anduin:

captlloyd: You should use -fixes rather than the tarball, though probably unrelated

[04:00:00]

Tanthrix:

captlloyd: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/

[04:02:12]

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[04:02:34]

Anduin:

captlloyd: may want to check codecparams for mpeg2aspectratio

[04:10:07]

captlloyd:

I'm gonna try getting a newer version of mythtv

[04:10:24]

captlloyd:

thanks for the help

[04:12:26]

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[04:41:47]

toad-six:

so i'm using nuvexport, and have noticed that if i use --debug, and run the commands manually, ffmpeg will use 99% cpu and transcode at about 30fps...however, if i just run nuvexport in its normal mode, ffmpeg never goes above 30% cpu, and i get about 5fps...why is this?

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[04:43:23]

captlloyd:

toad-six: It gets lazy unless it knows you're watching it.

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ocgltd:

Anyone have experience with video tearing and nVidia drivers? I have VBlanking sync and OpenGL VBlank Sync enabled in driver, and OpenGL sync enabled in FE. Still have occasional tearing. Is this normal?

[04:52:17]

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[04:52:23]

ocgltd:

Did everyone join and then go to bed? :)

[04:52:47]

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[04:57:43]

captlloyd:

I think the ivtv interface changed recently in the kernel so the release version did not know how to talk to it

[04:57:50]

captlloyd:

svn fixed my problem

[05:01:58]

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[05:11:41]

hads:

'Only In Theatres' is strange.

[05:14:10]

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[05:26:01]

Tanthrix:

ocgltd: You have Xv Sync enabled in nvidia-settings?

[05:27:34]

Tanthrix:

ocgltd: Under "X Server XVideo Settings" it's "Sync to Vblank" for the texture and blitter

[05:27:57]

robbins876:

I think i'm going to get that new Tivo

[05:34:10]

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[05:35:52]

ocgltd:

Tanthrix: yep, I do...

[05:36:22]

Tanthrix:

ocgltd: And are you using opengl vsync in myth?

[05:36:36]

Tanthrix:

OpenGL and Xv are different things

[05:37:31]

Tanthrix:

I believe if you're using opengl vsync in myth, the Xv setting is irrelevent since it's using gl instead. If you are using GL, and you still get tearing, then I might suggest that you discontinue using gl and see if Xv does the trick

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[05:43:32]

robbins876:

In mythvideo, can you make it look in more than one directory for video files?

[05:43:51]

Tanthrix:

robbins876: Aye, I think you just separate them by semicolons. Check the wiki

[05:43:57]

robbins876:

thanks

[05:44:00]

Tanthrix:

Or you can make one folder with symlinks to everything

[05:44:14]

Tanthrix:

I do that personally, so I can quickly and easily modify things

[05:44:33]

robbins876:

you're right about the semicolon

[05:50:49]

Anduin:

a colon

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[07:49:39]

mchou:

!seen ShockValue

[07:49:39]

MythLogBot:

ShockValue was last seen 2 days 17 hours 28 minutes 59 seconds ago

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[07:58:03]

Tanthrix:

Bah at Rowling. I feel cheated!

[07:59:25]

Tanthrix:

I guess some part of me expected for her to make up for all her trite, poorly done (but sometimes entertaining) writing in the last book, but that was probably just an irrational desire

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[08:12:42]

banyan:

Hey, what is the right way to resolve the libdts.so.0 dependency for mplayer?

[08:12:59]

Tanthrix:

Uh, libdts ain't it?

[08:13:27]

Tanthrix:

http://debian.unnet.nl/pub/videolan/libdts/0.0.2/ or your package manager of chouce ought to do

[08:15:27]

banyan:

It is libdts but I already have 0.2.4 but the livna one that has the library required is 0.2.3

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[08:19:06]

mchou:

Tanthrix: at least it's not as bad as George Lucas and the last 3 Star Wars movies

[08:19:47]

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[08:20:20]

Tanthrix:

Well, those are prequels at least. They can be ignored. Hard to ignore a botched ending!

[08:20:51]

mchou:

Tanthrix: as opposed to no ending like The Sopranos? :)

[08:21:07]

Tanthrix:

Never got into that series, but I suspect I'd find the ending intolerable

[08:21:25]

mchou:

Tanthrix: bah,you can't relate then

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[08:34:27]

fragged:

Hey may I ask how MythGallery works as far as what kind of backend, does it use mplayer or a image program?

[08:49:37]

Dibblah:

fragged: No. It's all internal code, with libs for reading the various filetypes.

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[09:19:59]

chief:

hello all i am having a spot of bother gettig mythtv to see my files on my main server (it is a windows 2003 server) i have mounted the share run the mythfilldatabase and if finds nothing i have also run the mythbackend and it seems to get stuck and ideas?

[09:20:36]

chief:

oh also i am a novice user

[09:20:55]

hads:

Um. mythfilldatabase has nothing to do with files on a share.

[09:21:52]

chief:

hmm ok how to i get mythtv to look at the files on the share i put in the location but i sees nothing

[09:22:13]

hads:

You'll want to use the mythvideo plugin or something.

[09:22:24]

chief:

that is already installed

[09:22:41]

hads:

Are you using the PVR functionality of myth? i.e scheduling and recording TV?

[09:23:00]

chief:

no i am not useing any tv devices on this system

[09:23:17]

hads:

Then myth may not be what you want.

[09:23:27]

chief:

all i am going to use it for is to play videos and music from my server

[09:23:50]

chief:

i will be useing the pvr later i just want to get this bit setup first

[09:25:03]

hads:

Well, you want to setup mythvideo to look at the path(s) where your video files are and then run Video Manager to insert records into the database.

[09:26:39]

chief:

ok i am looking at the path is this corect for a share mnt//server/mmtv?

[09:26:55]

chief:

or should it be smb//server/mmtv?

[09:27:32]

hads:

No. It will be part of your filesystem so it will start with /

[09:27:50]

chief:

ah i see that might be the issue

[09:28:55]

juski:

might/will

[09:29:51]

chief:

so for the location the mounted share name is MMTV so if i use /mmtv that should do it right?

[09:30:11]

juski:

use the name of the directory you mount the share to

[09:30:23]

chief:

sorry to be a pain i am a novice at this and just want to be sure i am getting it right

[09:31:20]

hads:

You need to mount the share. To do this you'll use the mount command.

[09:31:35]

juski:

man mount

[09:31:49]

hads:

THen once you have mounted the share it will become part of the local filesystem. Then you have a path to give to mythvideo.

[09:32:35]

hads:

Well, s/local// I guess

[09:35:48]

juski:

it basically goes like this (not that anybody should be in the habit of pointing out linux101 tips here).. mkdir sharename – make the dir you want to mount the share to. mount -t smbfs smb://path.to.server/share sharename (if I remember right – don't do smb myself)

[09:36:29]

juski:

but of course you'll need to make the share mount every time you boot, so you'll need to add a line into /etc/fstab too

[09:36:38]

juski:

man fstab :)

[09:37:35]

hads:

Dunno about that smb://

[09:37:53]

juski:

some distros provide an easier means to mount new shares automatically

[09:38:21]

juski:

hads: me neither. never used it. plus it's an inducement for somebody to look something up for themselves ;)

[09:38:29]

hads:

I think it might be //server/share but I don't use smb either.

[09:38:58]

juski:

spoon feeding != learning :D

[09:39:23]

hads:

You're the one doing it :)

[09:40:08]

juski:

easier just to give up & use geexbox instead, of course :-P

[09:42:37]

chief:

thanks for the help i know i should not be asking the basic q's the friend i normaly give a headace to is away

[09:43:00]

juski:

everybody was a noob at one time or other

[09:43:49]

juski:

what I usually do when I want to find out how to do something on $distro is search on google for "thing I want to do $distro". ubuntu makes crap like what you want to do really easy

[09:44:26]

chief:

i started off with ubuntu but couldnt get it working with all my hardware

[10:12:48]

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[10:20:07]

Hoxzer:

Btw, is it normal that mythtv compile fails if using more than one computer for compiling with distcc ?

[10:37:11]

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[10:37:30]

simone:

hi all

[10:37:50]

simone:

I'm looking for some newbie info...

[10:37:57]

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[10:38:08]

simone:

Is mythtv compatible with DVB-S cards?

[10:38:30]

simone:

I have an hauppage nexus-s and a skystar2

[10:39:20]

Hoxzer:

yes...

[10:40:29]

simone:

how can i find some info about configuring with these cards?

[10:40:37]

splat1:

simone, The best hardware list is on the website and Wiki's around mythtv and video4linux

[10:41:17]

splat1:

your best to google the chipset used in the card for peoples experiences

[10:41:35]

Hoxzer:

mythtv docs, mythtv wiki and knoppmythwiki are pretty good sources of information

[10:41:50]

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[10:42:06]

Hoxzer:

knoppmythwiki might only be good for debian (and distros that are based on it) users

[10:42:11]

subx:

the first ever female in the channel has gone :(

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[10:47:46]

Hoxzer:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1762625 <- check

[10:47:52]

Hoxzer:

Ops wrong channel

[10:48:19]

Hoxzer:

subx: ok, lets talk somehting so ... this gir... wont notice

[10:54:16]

juski:

Hoxzer: not nessecarily the first ever. you never know on IRC :-P

[10:55:15]

** splat1 agrees knowingly **

[10:55:57]

juski:

simone: yes mythtv should work with dvb-s just fine. those cards are known to work well in linux too. as for a howto guide – there's yet to be a good dvb-s wiki entry written (in English at least)

[10:56:27]

simone:

juski : I'm actually using VDR

[10:56:37]

simone:

on my linux box

[10:57:36]

simone:

I'm looking for info on how to build a PVR system, do you think mythtv could be a good solution?

[10:58:01]

simone:

I mean for dvb-s ...

[10:58:05]

juski:

it has a lot more going for it than VDR IMHO

[10:58:25]

juski:

much nicer GUI too :)

[11:01:09]

simone:

what about a mythtv distro? the most important for me is the boot timwe

[11:01:13]

simone:

*time

[11:02:20]

juski:

boot time? you can't record TV when the box is switched off ;)

[11:02:54]

juski:

if my priority was *watching* TV I would NOT choose mythtv over VDR

[11:03:05]

simone:

I mean that i'm looking for a fast boot process

[11:03:56]

juski:

what would you call fast? The only distro I've ever seen boot up faster than 30 secs without intense customisation was slackware

[11:06:59]

juski:

you can achieve better times with suspend to ram & such things but I've never found them to work well in linux

[11:07:38]

simone:

me too

[11:07:42]

simone:

;-)

[11:08:51]

simone:

that's the reason why i'm looking for a really minimalistic distro

[11:09:15]

GreyFoxx:

my frontends boot (netbooting) in 8–12 seconds

[11:09:57]

GreyFoxx:

but I've never tried the suspend to disk stuff.

[11:10:20]

juski:

the actual _install_ can be as bloated as you want. It's the sequence & number of services that start at boot time which is key

[11:10:34]

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[11:10:40]

supercatfrog:

hi – im having problems with a pvrusb2 device: http://rafb.net/p/sxD84l31.html – any ideas?

[11:10:43]

supercatfrog:

im using the version of the driver in the 2.6.19-gentoo-r5 kernel, and the firmware from ubuntu feisty (i dont know the version number)

[11:27:09]

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[11:56:19]

juski:

wow 2GB RAM & Core2 Duo E4400 for under Â£140

[11:58:15]

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[12:07:34]

pat_:

juski, I just got myself 2G of ram and a Q6600 for $450AU

[12:07:49]

pat_:

that's the quad core 2.4G thingo

[12:13:56]

slaine_:

juski, Where's that ?

[12:23:56]

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[12:41:35]

fryfrog:

pat_: lord, i hope that wasn't for anything but some super massive myth installation or something else :)

[12:45:47]

kslater:

bah, a puny quad core

[12:46:15]

kslater:

maybe he wants to play back h.264 video

[12:46:18]

kslater:

hahaha

[12:46:48]

juski:

pat_: scan.co.uk/todayonly/

[12:48:23]

juski:

jees. quad core for Â£193 ?! you guys must have much smaller import duty

[12:49:14]

juski:

ah it's Â£173 here minus the ram. cheaper than I thought though

[12:51:09]

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[12:56:04]

zntneo:

ahhhhh, my box's listings messed up again

[12:56:11]

zntneo:

*bangs head against wall*

[13:01:15]

fryfrog:

man, you have the worst luck!

[13:02:01]

Esine:

why does everyone use XMLTV? I don't understand. Wouldn't it be easier just to use the channel provided EIT information?

[13:02:24]

fryfrog:

Esine: Depends on how accurate the EIT is and if you can actually get it or not, I spose?

[13:02:36]

Esine:

is XMLTV more accurate then?

[13:02:45]

fryfrog:

for me, datadirect gives me 2 weeks and is pretty detailed in its descriptions. I'm on cable, so I doubt it even sends EIT.

[13:03:12]

Esine:

oh..

[13:03:20]

laga:

i doubt there is a lot of EIT in the US

[13:03:35]

KaZeR:

hey guys. i'd like to stream my recordings from mythweb, but i need them to be reencoded (low bandwidth). on the fly would be great. any tip?

[13:03:42]

fryfrog:

from what i gather, EIT mostly is for OTA in the US and is only a day or three.

[13:03:47]

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[13:03:56]

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[13:04:00]

fryfrog:

KaZeR: I dunno if it is possible :/

[13:04:21]

thostr:

anyone in here using the iOne Scorpius P20 keyboard with myth?

[13:04:25]

KaZeR:

ok thanks fryfrog

[13:04:39]

thostr:

someone in here recommended the keyboard, turns out it does not work out of the box with linux

[13:05:14]

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[13:06:26]

Esine:

thostr, I'll be buying that keyboard in a few days

[13:06:37]

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[13:06:47]

thostr:

mouse works, but not keyboard

[13:06:50]

Esine:

I read from a message board how to get it work.. I think you need to unload usbhid module and load usbmouse and usbkb

[13:07:01]

Esine:

hold on I'll check the module names

[13:07:08]

juski:

KaZeR: you need mythstreamtv or the flash streaming of mythweb in SVN trunk

[13:07:25]

thostr:

but usbhid supersendes usbmouse/kbd

[13:09:19]

Esine:

well I'm reading a (Finnish) forum here and it says you need to blacklist usbhid and load usbmouse and usbkbd

[13:09:23]

Esine:

and after that it should work

[13:10:09]

thostr:

I'll try, but usbmouse/kbd are deprecated AFAIK

[13:10:34]

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[13:13:11]

SiD3WiNDR:

apparently they shouldn't be then ;)

[13:14:21]

Esine:

thostr, let me know if it works

[13:15:02]

thostr:

shit don't seem to have the modules

[13:15:21]

thostr:

rmmod usbhid; insmod usbkbd – this should cut it normally right?

[13:15:22]

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[13:15:22]

Esine:

heh. thostr, there's also a patch for this: //www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg16187.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-users@l . . . sg16187.html

[13:15:35]

Esine:

um, try modprobe usbkbd

[13:15:45]

thostr:

nupe

[13:16:02]

thostr:

so I'll just have to do a kernel rebuild

[13:16:10]

thostr:

with 2.6.22

[13:16:26]

Esine:

what kernel are you running right now?

[13:16:32]

KaZeR:

juski, do i need to upgrade mythtv to upgrade mythweb?

[13:16:39]

KaZeR:

(thanks btw ;) )

[13:16:43]

juski:

KaZeR: of course you do!

[13:16:45]

thostr:

2.6.18, same one as referenced in the patch thread

[13:16:53]

Esine:

ok

[13:17:19]

thostr:

damn how I hate it when basic IO devices require manual work from me to work properly

[13:17:59]

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[13:18:55]

Servo888:

Just curious – what will happen once zap2it closes it's doors to tv listings? Is it more screen sraping?

[13:19:19]

juski:

Servo888: see the channel topic

[13:19:54]

juski:

the vindictive part of me wants to say "you're all screwed. MUHAHAHAHAH" but that's not true at all :(

[13:20:28]

GreyFoxx:

Servo888: a replacement service is in the works

[13:20:40]

GreyFoxx:

but you will always have the option of screenscraping as well :)

[13:20:41]

Servo888:

GreyFoxx: very very good :-)

[13:21:06]

juski:

easier to just read the channel topic & follow the link provided

[13:21:26]

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[13:22:34]

thostr:

anyone here running with kernel 2.6.22?

[13:23:04]

thostr:

latest debian packages are 2.6.18, but I should be ok with just grabbing 2.6.22 off www.kernel.org and building from there?

[13:23:30]

KaZeR:

juski, yeah that's what is boring me. my mythtv is working fine, don't feel like upgrading it..

[13:24:05]

jazking123:

Hello, I was hoping somebody mighty be able to help me. Im new to linux and running Ubuntu FF. I have installed MythTV frontend from the Synaptic package manager but when i try to run it from Applications/Sound & Video/MythTV frontend, nothing happens.

[13:24:18]

Esine:

thostr, why not ;) Linux concave 2.6.22-kamikaze1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Tue Jul 10 17:57:42 EEST 2007 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux

[13:24:37]

thostr:

kamkaze ;-)

[13:24:42]

Esine:

it's a patchset

[13:25:10]

jazking123:

What is the command to run it from the terminal?

[13:25:15]

Servo888:

Well it doesn't really say "Hey you guys we are going to find a fix for the zap2it labs issues visit such and such site for more information"

[13:25:31]

juski:

jazking123: you need to read the ubuntu community documentation about mythtv

[13:25:38]

juski:

jazking123: you REALLY need to read that

[13:25:47]

juski:

jazking123: I mean REALLY REALLY REALLY need to read it

[13:26:13]

juski:

mythtv is a lot of things, but NOT a 'install via apt' & click to run app

[13:26:35]

Servo888:

jazking123: setting up mythtv is not as trivial as just installing the package =-/

[13:27:22]

kslater:

although I have to say that if you already have a system up and running, adding a new Ubuntu FF frontend is pretty close to just installing it and running it

[13:27:34]

juski:

jazking123: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV

[13:27:34]

kslater:

at least it was for me

[13:27:46]

juski:

KaZeR: it's not

[13:28:17]

juski:

there's some configuration to do. it's a good way away from being install & use yet

[13:28:39]

jazking123:

I knew i was being hopeful. I don't mind playing around with it to try and get it working, the problem i have is in the documentation they go step by step but at the step after installation they run the program and it starts i run the program and nothing happens

[13:28:39]

kslater:

very true

[13:28:51]

jazking123:

But i will go and do some more reading if its what you recommend

[13:28:58]

juski:

jazking123: there's a farking good reason why the docs are so extensive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[13:29:02]

juski:

don't be a lazy arse

[13:29:15]

juski:

I'mn not say ing you ARE one – I'm saying don't be one ;)

[13:29:22]

jazking123:

lol

[13:30:36]

jazking123:

thank you

[13:31:58]

juski:

seriously – if you don't read & digest those docs – or at least work through them step by step, you don't stand a cat in hell's chance

[13:32:25]

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[13:34:13]

thostr:

mythtv is a hobby

[13:34:30]

thostr:

at times even a life style...

[13:34:36]

juski:

mythtv is a perfectly usable, serious pvr app

[13:34:51]

juski:

if you have a clue, rtfm, you can get it working

[13:35:10]

juski:

once working it needs very little work to keep it going IF you don't mess about with it

[13:35:52]

juski:

FYI 'messing about with it' includes allowing your distro to auto-update :-P

[13:35:54]

thostr:

true, but it can get messy during upgrades

[13:36:17]

thostr:

and you need to be more than averagely interested in investing some time into getting it to work

[13:36:19]

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[13:36:21]

Esine:

don't upgrade if it ain't broken ;)

[13:36:26]

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[13:37:50]

juski:

you don't need to be more than averagely interested. More than average intelligence, no doubt though

[13:38:12]

juski:

insert brain, read docs, install mythtv

[13:38:21]

thostr:

that's a bit harsh

[13:38:28]

juski:

so many people don't, and that's how they end up in here

[13:38:36]

thostr:

that's mean

[13:38:36]

juski:

harsh, but completely true

[13:39:00]

juski:

you have any idea how many people wouldn't have problems if they did a little of their own work first?

[13:39:13]

kslater:

I'd add, don't be impatient. It seems like every mythtv install bumps into some problem that seems insurmountable for a time

[13:39:40]

thostr:

juski: actually I have a pretty good idea

[13:40:37]

thostr:

I'm not complaining though, myth has been working great for me for ~18 months

[13:41:34]

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[13:41:50]

thostr:

but I find it a bit hard to recommend to friends who are not more than averagely linux savvy

[13:42:04]

juski:

myth's been working great for me for almost 3 years now. only times it's ever messed up have been my fault. allowing / to get full, forgetting to plug the aerial back into a tuner card.. definitely nothing on the scale of Sky Plus PVR or MCE failings

[13:42:25]

juski:

thostr: mythtv itself is a piece of poo to install & configure. it's the stuff mythtv depends on where folks trip up

[13:42:35]

juski:

remote controls & tuner hardware

[13:43:03]

juski:

we get too many of those problems here too – they have NOTHING to do with mythtv, but we're left to clear up the mess

[13:43:19]

thostr:

hehe

[13:43:26]

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[13:44:01]

Esine:

still mythtv users are the best people to ask help from since they've dealt with these problems themselves before :|

[13:44:17]

juski:

I do wish more people would bother their arses & RTFM though. it'd make everybody's life so much easier

[13:44:34]

Esine:

true

[13:44:43]

laga:

we need more mythtv channels ;)

[13:45:04]

thostr:

the software needs to get better from a usability standpoint

[13:45:11]

thostr:

and the documentation

[13:45:33]

thostr:

until then, people need to read and fuck the manual more

[13:45:39]

juski:

the users can help contribute to that instead of whine

[13:45:53]

juski:

whining is way easier though :)

[13:46:07]

thostr:

sometimes whining helps :-)

[13:46:19]

juski:

when?

[13:46:47]

juski:

you whine at me to change something in one of my themes & you'll very quickly end up on my ignore list :-P

[13:46:50]

thostr:

when you've been fighting a problem for a long time and found no fix

[13:47:31]

juski:

I found a fix. stop coming in here. my problem is I can't help coming in here :(

[13:47:48]

thostr:

juski: you want me to leave?

[13:48:17]

juski:

I mean a fix for me is to stop coming in this channel. it depresses me & pisses me off every single day, yet I still come back

[13:48:32]

thostr:

hm I'm sorry that you're being pissed off

[13:48:45]

laga:

juski: i could whine about IEGD if that'd would make you feel better

[13:49:18]

juski:

thostr: it's not you. it's the channel & users in general

[13:49:25]

thostr:

because the human support you're giving is of paramount importance to having the software improve...

[13:49:31]

SiD3WiNDR:

(which includes him)

[13:49:59]

juski:

software will never get better until users contribute code which constitutes improvements

[13:50:17]

laga:

SiD3WiNDR: heh

[13:50:31]

SiD3WiNDR:

(and me)

[13:50:31]

SiD3WiNDR:

:>

[13:50:33]

thostr:

contributing documentation is an alternative

[13:50:38]

juski:

roflmao

[13:50:50]

juski:

don't see people queuing up to add to the wiki

[13:51:17]

juski:

well, other than the feature requests pages

[13:52:32]

SiD3WiNDR:

:D

[13:53:04]

juski:

that IS the right place for those things though. nobody's ever gonna take notice of them when they're there

[13:53:19]

juski:

ungrateful ****s :)

[13:53:25]

thostr:

hehe

[13:53:46]

thostr:

I interpret your whining as a wish for the myth tv project to improve, so that's good

[13:53:48]

juski:

hey here's this software I paid precisely $0 for, it's great & all that BUT

[13:54:28]

juski:

anyway this is one discussion I'm gonna stop right here. it goes nowhere & changes precisely FA

[13:54:32]

thostr:

anyone of you know the code base for myth tv any well?

[13:54:57]

juski:

users will always be a PITA & I'll always be an annoying c***

[13:55:06]

thostr:

it's written in c++ right? good test coverage?

[13:55:14]

juski:

test coverage?

[13:55:20]

thostr:

unit tests

[13:55:24]

juski:

???

[13:55:36]

GreyFoxx:

primarily C++ with some C and asm mixed in (thoiugh mostly in the libavcodec stuff)

[13:55:52]

juski:

patch something. works for you, attach it to a ticket. somebody looks at it, might get committed, users of trunk get to try it out

[13:56:11]

thostr:

not a single unit test?

[13:56:26]

thostr:

well well

[13:56:32]

Dagmar:

unit tests?

[13:56:33]

Dagmar:

lol!

[13:56:50]

thostr:

Dagmar: ?

[13:58:42]

Dagmar:

You expect unit testing? *snicker*

[13:58:57]

juski:

everybody tests their own patches before submitting them to trac – then they get loked at & tried out by the dev who looks at the ticket. if the patch does what it says on the box & it's written well – it stands a chance of being incorporated

[13:59:14]

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[13:59:57]

thostr:

as I'm sure more of you know, shared code ownership is way much easier with good test coverage so someone should start writing that – automated tests

[14:00:56]

thostr:

I for one is not going to start slashing into a multi 100 000 line c++ code jungle without good test coverage

[14:02:19]

thostr:

what I've thought about tho, is try to help adding some small time functions to mythweb – which is the user interface I use most with myth tv

[14:03:21]

thostr:

I would like the channel listing to have a button for 'record this' and to show more than a days worth of available programs

[14:03:36]

thostr:

shit I'm filling up the channel...

[14:04:53]

laga:

you could write some unit tests ;)

[14:05:26]

juski:

none of the mythtv code is indecipherable anyway. anything you don't understand, just ask somebody. so long as you're not too needy, generally folks will oblige

[14:05:39]

Dagmar:

thostr: If you were following good coding practices, you wouldn't need unit tests

[14:05:53]

Dagmar:

Unit testing is not a substitute for not writing stupid things.

[14:05:57]

juski:

sure some areas could do with better docs/comments but most of what goes on isn't rocket science

[14:06:05]

Dagmar:

s/better/some/;

[14:06:12]

juski:

qt, not rocket science ;)

[14:06:12]

thostr:

Dagmar: hehe could not disagree more

[14:06:30]

Dagmar:

What are you really expecting automated testing to achieve?

[14:07:07]

Dagmar:

The primary output is not automatable (eyeballs watching the TV) and neither is the primary input source (i.e., broadcast television)

[14:07:50]

Dagmar:

This isn't some crazy-ass kludge with one function defined and 4,000,000 lines in one code block

[14:07:51]

thostr:

nothing out of the ordinary, i.e. good regression testing, better design, easier to read code, knowing that you've not broken anything etc etc

[14:07:55]

juski:

the main base of the code is very stable & there aren't any veyr long-standing bugs to speak of

[14:08:11]

Dagmar:

If you don't touch globals it'll be damn hard for you to break anything that you didn't personally code

[14:08:35]

Dagmar:

Sounds like you're used to using unit testing as a crutch.

[14:08:46]

thostr:

as a what?

[14:08:53]

Dagmar:

As a crutch.

[14:08:54]

juski:

I usually find if it compiles, it works :)

[14:09:11]

juski:

so long as I don't call a function in the destructor :-P

[14:09:21]

Dagmar:

I've seen a lot of frankly *mediocre* coders who use unit testing as a substitute for paying attention to what they're typing.

[14:09:38]

Esine:

thostr, did you get Scorpius P20 to work?

[14:09:48]

thostr:

so therefore unit testing is a bad idea heh

[14:10:02]

thostr:

Esine: still waiting for the kernel to build... slow front end!

[14:10:05]

Dagmar:

No, unit testing is a reasonable idea, for things that are amenable to automated testing

[14:10:05]

juski:

most contributors don't contribute things that require much more than a 'does it work?' test anyway

[14:10:07]

Esine:

:)

[14:10:34]

Dagmar:

This isn't something where you can automate the IO for unit testing, because the IO is the primary thing it's doing.

[14:10:35]

thostr:

Dagmar: and most things are amendable to automated testing

[14:10:39]

Dagmar:

...not the logic in between

[14:10:50]

thostr:

Dagmar: ever heard of mock objects?

[14:10:55]

Dagmar:

Yep.

[14:10:55]

juski:

thostr: so do us all a favour. make it so!

[14:11:01]

Dagmar:

Ever heard of a mock TV station?

[14:11:28]

juski:

you can't just stand there on the sidelines yelling for folks to do stuff how you think it should be done. wins you no allies here

[14:11:53]

thostr:

juski: what makes you think I'm yelling?

[14:11:54]

Dagmar:

thostr: If you say it's possible, prove it

[14:12:00]

Dagmar:

Write a useable test harness

[14:12:24]

juski:

it's easier to ignore this than continue..

[14:12:56]

thostr:

if I touch any code it will be the php code of myth web, i'll of course test first design if I ever do :-)

[14:13:29]

Dibblah:

Unit testing is pretty much impossible for a large amount of Myth, unfortunately.

[14:13:41]

thostr:

juski: I'm sorry if you find the discussion negative

[14:13:42]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Already tried explaining that. Good luck to you

[14:13:45]

Dibblah:

It really doesn't split down well into units.

[14:15:12]

Dagmar:

This ain't like writing a test harness for say, a nameserver build

[14:15:40]

Dibblah:

It is possible for some of the minor functionality.

[14:16:43]

Dibblah:

But the problem is that the things that are easily testable are also unlikely to actually stop working.

[14:16:58]

Dagmar:

Transcoding recordings, scheduling events, detecting new events, handling scheduling conflicts, etc

[14:17:23]

juski:

get xml element! draw an image onscreen! wow! it works!

[14:17:24]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: That's all easy enough.

[14:17:35]

Dagmar:

Yeah, but how often do those things break?

[14:17:51]

Dagmar:

XvMC, changing channels, audio handling, playback... Those things eff up lots

[14:18:17]

Dibblah:

Only when a guilty party does an ffmpeg sync ;)

[14:18:19]

thostr:

Would be fun to continue the discussion, but since Juski seems to think I'm being negative and a critic I don't want to offend anyone here and continue...

[14:18:33]

juski:

thostr: just put me on ignore

[14:18:52]

juski:

and anyway all I'm saying is it'll get you nowhere unless you do something yourself

[14:19:38]

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[14:19:44]

thostr:

so the discussion is useless unless I promise to commit time into actually implementing, is that what you're saying?

[14:20:02]

Dibblah:

thostr: It's your thorn.

[14:20:21]

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[14:20:24]

Dibblah:

If you don't start picking at it, who will?

[14:20:55]

thostr:

thorn? picking? oops sorry I think my intentions have been greatly misunderstood...

[14:20:56]

juski:

most if not all people who contribute to mythtv are doing it for one person. and it ain't the end user

[14:21:30]

juski:

nobody gets paid enough to care much about the little guy

[14:21:43]

thostr:

sorry if I wasted your time, guys!

[14:22:18]

GreyFoxx:

w

[14:22:21]

GreyFoxx:

oops

[14:22:26]

GreyFoxx:

wrong window :)

[14:23:16]

Dibblah:

juski: Except for danielk, etc ;)

[14:23:38]

juski:

it's nice that people are happy enough with mythtv – great even – but few people are willing to use up a lot of their time making features they won't personally benefit from & that's simple human nature. of course some folks get a warm fuzzy feeling from fixing problems for people, and that's cool too

[14:23:46]

thostr:

I honestly think there is a good argument to be made that most open source projects can benefit greatly from good unit test coverage, and most non-UI (and even much UI) related code can be tested. I'll rest my case here, and meant no criticisim of the current practices :-)

[14:24:02]

Dagmar:

I think most unit testers are snake-oil salesmen

[14:24:08]

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[14:24:27]

juski:

there's no substitute for real world testing, and myth could do with more of that

[14:24:36]

GreyFoxx:

More users should use svn

[14:24:52]

GreyFoxx:

more systems/configs testing code

[14:25:09]

juski:

if more people who found bugs could adequately report them instead of ignoring or working around them, the end result would be less problems all around

[14:27:14]

Dibblah:

juski: In my personal opinion, that wouldn't help much.

[14:27:28]

Dibblah:

Again, who's interested in someone else's thorn?

[14:27:41]

Dibblah:

No rude answers, please.

[14:27:44]

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[14:27:49]

** Dagmar deletes what he was going to type. **

[14:28:20]

juski:

Dibblah: I feel kinda burdened by the other themes now, fixing issues that aren't anything to do with me. kinda aggreived actually

[14:28:25]

Dagmar:

Some days, you are no fun at all, man

[14:28:37]

Dagmar:

juski: Let 'em rot then

[14:29:25]

Dibblah:

Once the theme selector's there, you can have download statistics. Then you can know when it's time to take them out and shoot them.

[14:29:29]

juski:

I dunno – it's not like they're my responsibility or anything, but it feels good to submit fixes when they're done

[14:29:44]

juski:

G.A.N.T. ain't going anywhere

[14:29:52]

Dibblah:

Err... I thought they were your responsibility? ;)

[14:30:17]

juski:

since nobody even reported the issues.. er...

[14:30:31]

laga:

well, there are none then

[14:30:32]

laga:

;)

[14:31:09]

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[14:32:48]

Dagmar:

someone who cares will eventually step forward and start maintaining the broken themes, or they'll die

[14:33:44]

juski:

I DO care, that's the point

[14:34:00]

Dagmar:

You use *all* the themes?

[14:34:14]

juski:

I just feel a bit peeved that somebody else broke them

[14:34:39]

juski:

I don't use *any* of the official themes. haven't for a couple of years. I make no secret that I think they all suck

[14:34:56]

Esine:

juski, what theme do you use then?

[14:35:09]

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[14:35:17]

juski:

neon-wide at the moment

[14:36:59]

Dagmar:

juski: Think about this carefully for a moment. Those themes suck. Ther'es a good chance that no one is actually using them.

[14:37:14]

juski:

G.A.N.T. & mythcenter are popular

[14:37:19]

Dagmar:

Yep. Those two.

[14:37:37]

juski:

there's no accounting for taste

[14:37:42]

Dagmar:

The rest, if they fall behind, it shouldn't be much trouble for anyone with half a clue to resurrect them from SVN and fix them

[14:37:45]

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[14:38:22]

juski:

if I could get away with it I'd just pull everything but Titivillus

[14:41:44]

juski:

that wouldn't win me any popularity contests, fer sure :-P

[14:43:25]

Dagmar:

Just let them alone.

[14:43:37]

Dagmar:

If ther'es one that breaks that people are using, the bug reports will come rolling in

[14:47:12]

juski:

easy for you to say that. changes I'm in the middle of are for mythmusic – it's taken this long for one user to even notice the need

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[15:00:38]

fryfrog:

thostr: gallery2 uses unit tests, hardcore. it does help them catch a *lot* of issues

[15:00:54]

fryfrog:

thostr: and it helps them when they find new issues, making tests that catch em later

[15:01:48]

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[15:01:58]

armbar:

hello

[15:02:12]

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[15:03:30]

thostr:

fryfrog: I'm sure! Writing test cases for positively identifiying bugs is a fine way of finding them exactly once

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imperfect-:

Anyone know what I need to do after I make and install mythtv to get the plugins to compile when it's missing myth headers?

[15:56:23]

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[16:01:53]

Dagmar:

hah

[16:02:08]

imperfect-:

Is there any way to install the headers using make?

[16:03:05]

bill2or3:

uh, you probablly have to tell the configure script where the headers are.

[16:03:15]

imperfect-:

for mythplugins?

[16:03:32]

bill2or3:

I dont know mythplugins specificlly, but for anything.

[16:03:37]

Dagmar:

bill2or3: If he installed Myth, the headers should be there.

[16:04:13]

Cry_wolf2:

Maybe they are hiding

[16:04:13]

bill2or3:

so either they're not installed, or they're installed somewhere other than where the mythplugins makefile is looking.

[16:04:14]

imperfect-:

Dagmar : Yeah they aren't.

[16:04:25]

imperfect-:

Dagmar: they exist only in the svn directory

[16:04:51]

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[16:06:19]

imperfect-:

weird

[16:06:21]

imperfect-:

I did a distclean

[16:06:25]

imperfect-:

and now it appears to work

[16:06:29]

imperfect-:

I think it was the -j 4

[16:09:17]

Cry_wolf2:

Should the number of threads affect ?

[16:09:39]

Dagmar:

Only if the Makefile was improperly constructed.

[16:09:45]

imperfect-:

wello

[16:09:46]

imperfect-:

I did -j3

[16:09:48]

imperfect-:

er 4

[16:09:49]

bill2or3:

I think that's just how many gcc's to run at once.

[16:09:52]

bill2or3:

isn't it?

[16:09:53]

imperfect-:

and after the distclean and no -j 4

[16:09:56]

imperfect-:

it was fine

[16:10:03]

Dagmar:

bill2or3: It's how many subprocesses make will spawn

[16:10:11]

bill2or3:

yeah, that.

[16:10:26]

imperfect-:

yea

[16:10:29]

bill2or3:

I guess they're not all compilers, but linkers and whatnot too.

[16:10:31]

imperfect-:

I usually do dlb the cores

[16:10:42]

Dagmar:

bill2or3: Make calls gcc, typically gcc calls everything else

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Cry_wolf2:

Ah, man..just came back from the gym and is going to the pub with some coworkers..so a started at home with a beer....whent straight to my head :=)

[16:11:54]

juski:

#3769 – somebody has got to be kidding. another osd menu option. nooooooo! :(

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[16:50:16]

Dagmar:

Hey have any of you that are building on Ubuntu tried to use the openvpn client?

[16:50:27]

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[16:51:44]

JMartinC:

hi guys, There's no provider of TV Listing for my country and cable operator so I xmltv grab from another operator wich have the same channels, my problem now is that the times are not the same, ussually I have between 1 and 2 hours difference, I'm grabbing the XML file from command line, and importing to MythTV with --file option on mythfilldatabase.

[16:52:25]

laga:

JMartinC: can you give me an example <programme> entry of that file?

[16:52:31]

JMartinC:

I may have to do some processing of the file before importing it, fixing the times, I was wondering if there is any tool for doing this?

[16:54:05]

laga:

18:46 < laga> JMartinC: can you give me an example <programme> entry of that file?

[16:54:23]

JMartinC:

[16:54:36]

JMartinC:

sry for delay, starting up Myth box.

[16:54:39]

laga:

ah :)

[16:54:40]

laga:

well

[16:55:04]

laga:

you could just use sed s/-0200/<correct timezone>/

[16:55:05]

laga:

actually

[16:55:20]

laga:

JMartinC: you can set an offset for the XMLTV times in mythtv-setup.

[16:55:25]

laga:

that should do the trick

[16:56:35]

JMartinC:

Have tried that, originally it was -0300, and I change it to -0200 to see if the timing get moved by an hour.

[16:57:35]

JMartinC:

doesn't work so I use the offset if mythtv-setup and set it to -60, but still doesn't work, I read on the offset box it only work with DataDirect so I assume it wasn't working

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JMartinC:

I;m not sure what happen when I import the modified file, is there a way I can clean mythtv listing DB

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[17:39:02]

hume_:

hi....I'm having problems getting channel info of swedish channels. I have 12 channels set, but only get info on 2 of them. i pick channel id from tv_grab_se_swedb --list-channels, and set in the xmltv-id column in the web interface. but only info on 2 of them. anyone got advice?

[17:39:23]

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[17:40:07]

Slyboots:

Hi :)

[17:40:07]

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[17:40:43]

Slyboots:

Hm, Seems my question has already been answered by the Wiki

[17:41:08]

Slyboots:

Was wondering if MyhtTV show a "Ticker" across a video feed (from a RSS feed or what have-you)

[17:41:29]

fryfrog:

does it?

[17:42:15]

Slyboots:

Seems not

[17:42:18]

Slyboots:

Its on the "wishlist"

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[17:44:57]

fryfrog:

ah

[17:51:07]

Slyboots:

Shame

[17:53:02]

GreyFoxx:

Slyboots: That can be done with mythtvosd

[17:53:23]

Slyboots:

GreyFoxx: it can?

[17:53:28]

Slyboots:

It does not even have to be a RSS feed

[17:54:45]

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[17:54:50]

GreyFoxx:

mythtvosd --template=scroller --scroll_text="FILL IN WHAT YOU WANT HERE" --bcastaddr="IP OF FRONTEND"

[17:55:24]

GreyFoxx:

I use the cid template for displaying VOIP callerid on my main frontend that way

[17:55:42]

gbee:

bcastaddr isn't needed if you want to multicast to all frontends

[17:55:55]

gbee:

!seen knowledgejunkie

[17:55:55]

MythLogBot:

knowledgejunkie was last seen 21 days 18 hours 31 seconds ago

[17:57:18]

Slyboots:

GreyFoxx: Is there a manual page for that? Im curious as how that will actuly "look" (Size and colour and whatnot)

[17:57:44]

gbee:

Beirdo: suggested improvement to the bot, a robot which will go off and drag people into irc at my request ;)

[17:57:45]

GreyFoxx:

Slyboots: It uses your OSD theme, so it will look however that theme has set it up

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[17:59:10]

Slyboots:

Hmm...

[17:59:27]

Beirdo:

heh

[18:00:10]

jams:

Slyboots- just be aware that it doesn't work in the menus, only when video is playing

[18:00:25]

Slyboots:

jams: Yea, thats fine :)

[18:00:34]

gbee:

Slyboots: http://www.tase.co.uk/mythtv/mythtvosd.png

[18:00:42]

gbee:

that's blootube-wide (trunk)

[18:01:00]

bill2or3:

anyone successfully using EIT guide data?

[18:01:24]

gbee:

and it also shows that I _do_ need de-int enabled on my laptop, my eyes don't normally notice

[18:01:24]

Slyboots:

haha, Thats very helpfull gbee :)

[18:02:56]

Slyboots:

?

[18:03:37]

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[18:07:46]

hume_:

anyone got ideas on why xmltv / tv_grab_se_swedb does not provide me with channel info? what can I check or try?

[18:08:01]

Slyboots:

Right, I just have to wait for him to install linux and mythtv ;)

[18:09:17]

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[18:09:42]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: what else could you do with mythtvosd besides CID? I mean, I know you could do "anything" but I'm looking for ideas.

[18:09:48]

fryfrog:

maybe show new email msg or something?

[18:10:10]

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[18:12:31]

hume:

konsole

[18:12:33]

hume:

oops

[18:12:50]

hume:

wrong window

[18:13:03]

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[18:13:38]

gbee:

fryfrog: realtime sports scores scrapped from some sort of feed (rss)?

[18:13:47]

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[18:16:08]

gbee:

feedback from your x11 automated devices? "There is someone at the front door", "Your microwave meal is now ready", "The kettle has boiled", "What are you doing Dave?" :p

[18:16:46]

fryfrog:

ahahhaah

[18:16:53]

fryfrog:

"Goodevening Dave"

[18:17:02]

fryfrog:

"I'm sorry Dave, but I can't do that"

[18:17:13]

fryfrog:

"Open the pod bay doors Hal!"

[18:17:19]

fryfrog:

mmmm, <3 2002

[18:17:24]

fryfrog:

er, 2001 even

[18:17:34]

gbee:

I know someone used it to send messages to their kids "Stop watching TV and do your homework" ;)

[18:17:45]

bill2or3:

funny.

[18:18:09]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: you could easily popup something about new emails coming in, or only emails from certain people/addresses

[18:18:14]

GreyFoxx:

text messages

[18:18:20]

fryfrog:

ahah

[18:18:24]

fryfrog:

ah, SMS even

[18:18:32]

fryfrog:

I don't care about email enough to do it :/

[18:18:42]

fryfrog:

caller id would be awesome, but all I use is cell phones so that is right out

[18:19:08]

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[18:19:57]

Dibblah:

fryfrog: Why? Don't you buy recent phones?

[18:20:10]

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[18:20:19]

fryfrog:

Dibblah: what do you mean?

[18:20:22]

thostr:

Eside: usbkbd/mouse works

[18:20:26]

Dibblah:

Bluetooth...

[18:20:28]

thostr:

(for the P20)

[18:20:35]

fryfrog:

Bluetooth can seen caller ID?

[18:20:41]

Dibblah:

Yup.

[18:20:48]

fryfrog:

it'd have to send it to some sort of PC dongle then, I imagine?

[18:20:58]

Dibblah:

Well, maybe.

[18:21:07]

Dibblah:

What would that be, do you think?

[18:21:24]

Dibblah:

Oh! I know – A Bluetooth dongle!

[18:21:27]

fryfrog:

I dunno, I hardly even use *USB* in linux... I can't imagine how I'd do BT :)

[18:21:29]

Dibblah:

;)

[18:21:36]

Dibblah:

bluez.

[18:21:51]

Dibblah:

Not actually tried it, however, so YMMBCD.

[18:21:52]

fryfrog:

come on, i know there are blue tooth dongles :p

[18:22:06]

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[18:22:08]

fryfrog:

i just wonder how it'd recieve something like caller id and pass it along :p

[18:22:16]

bill2or3:

but it's a cellphone, so you probablly have it right with you anyway.

[18:22:23]

bill2or3:

so just look at it. :-|

[18:22:41]

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[18:22:47]

gbee:

juski bought a BT dongle for LRL, apparently worked out of the box and only cost a few pound

[18:22:52]

fryfrog:

well, if i'm watching tv i'm in bed and its somewhere near by

[18:22:58]

fryfrog:

LRL?

[18:23:11]

gbee:

LugRadio Live

[18:23:14]

fryfrog:

what i really need is a bluetooth *ringer* or something :)

[18:23:16]

Dibblah:

http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=146672

[18:23:20]

GreyFoxx:

I ordered a BT usb dongle which is gonna be here tomorrow hopefully. was like $10

[18:23:23]

gbee:

never actually got used, heh

[18:24:11]

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[18:24:42]

** GreyFoxx wonders how much the kerneldeint can be sped up **

[18:24:47]

Dibblah:

http://0x63.nu/files/btcid/README.txt

[18:25:14]

Dibblah:

kernel is nasty in terms of how it accesses memory.

[18:25:35]

Dibblah:

Likes frame-size L2 caches :)

[18:25:46]

GreyFoxx:

It's a cpu hog during hdtv playback

[18:25:58]

Dibblah:

So get bob working.

[18:26:19]

GreyFoxx:

I'd rather "fix" this first

[18:26:47]

hume:

it seems my mythfilldatabase have a problem with the grabber tv_grab_se_swedb, it complains about an undefined value at line 174 – but there is no problem running the grabber by itself – what can I do?

[18:26:53]

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[18:27:01]

** Dibblah gets the feeling that GreyFoxx has oprofile cocked and loaded :) **

[18:27:19]

banyan:

how do I satisfy my computer's insatiable desire for an rpm containing libdts.so.0?

[18:27:21]

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[18:27:23]

GreyFoxx:

Dibblah: Yes :)

[18:28:01]

** GreyFoxx gets curious and looks at the dscaler source **

[18:29:43]

** Dibblah got worried when swscale got introduced. Now that would be a _wonderful_ CPU sink. **

[18:30:07]

gbee:

hume: more likely that mfdb is running the script with different arguments to the ones you are using on the command line

[18:30:34]

hume:

gbee, ok, any idea on how I can check?

[18:31:33]

gbee:

hume: make sure you are using the latest version of xmltv (0.5.46) first, also what version of mythtv are you using?

[18:32:28]

hume:

installed by kubuntu, tv_grab_se_swedb is 0.5.44; myth 0.10

[18:32:32]

hume:

0.20, sorry

[18:32:46]

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[18:33:16]

lwizardl:

Hi

[18:33:40]

gbee:

0.5.44 is pretty old, if it's a bug then it would have been fixed in one of the last two releases

[18:34:19]

lwizardl:

what video graphics card is recommended to output to a HDTV either by component or DVI ?

[18:34:33]

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[18:34:46]

kormoc:

lwizardl, an nvidia

[18:35:10]

gbee:

the guys behind tv_grab_swedb are Mattias and Oscar, one is a mythtv user and the other is a mythtv dev, so I assume they would have spotted any bugs

[18:35:59]

hume:

gbee, it worked before, but then I re-scanned for channels, and now it doesnt. might there be a problem sith users? i have a .xmltv-dir in my own user dir, but could it be that mythfilldatabase use some other?

[18:36:23]

lwizardl:

kormoc, ok becuase my mythtv box is using a Integrated Intel Extreme graphics

[18:36:26]

lwizardl:

card

[18:36:37]

Cry_wolf2:

I´m swedish too and i tried the swedb when i configured mythtv the firtst time but just got an error

[18:36:42]

Cry_wolf2:

EIT works ok

[18:37:01]

kormoc:

lwizardl, they're not bad, but not the best ether. whatever works, ya know?

[18:37:31]

gbee:

hume: ahh, maybe a bad or missing xmltv id in the channel table?

[18:37:32]

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[18:37:51]

hume:

gbee, which is the channel table?

[18:38:03]

gbee:

mythfilldatabase uses the config file in .mythtv/<source>.xmltv

[18:38:25]

hume:

i mean, i have set the xmltv-ids through the web interface, picked them from tv_grab_se_swedb --list-channels

[18:39:02]

hume:

gbee, hrm....that file only contains a root-url and then cachedir=/home/user/.xmltv/cache

[18:39:29]

gbee:

hume: it should probably contain a list of all the xmltvids that you are using

[18:39:56]

hume:

only two lines......

[18:40:01]

gbee:

but configuration is a little different between the various xmltv scripts (I use tv_grab_uk_rt)

[18:40:42]

lwizardl:

kormoc, yeah its the onboard video card for the machine, so I'm looking to change it to another one but I only have PCI (not PCI-E) and all the cards I find that are what I want are pci express only

[18:41:24]

gbee:

http://tv.swedb.se/

[18:41:25]

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[18:44:45]

lwizardl:

is there a list somewhere of cards that work with hdtv?

[18:46:12]

hume:

gbee, is there a way of taking it from the start again, deleting the cache or something?

[18:46:34]

stuarta_:

hume: eit data?

[18:48:22]

hume:

stuarta_, its xmltv

[18:48:52]

stuarta_:

if you want to delete all your current program data, it is easy

[18:49:26]

stuarta_:

that what you want to do?

[18:49:40]

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[18:51:36]

juski:

that bluetooth dongle I bought results in a full kernel log in next to no time

[18:51:57]

** stuarta_ smells a POS# **

[18:52:26]

juski:

oh yeah it *works* out of the box alright.. just get a log full of junk

[18:52:57]

juski:

apparently not uncommon with BT devices in linux

[18:53:51]

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[18:57:56]

stuarta_:

juski: you tried the latest kernel with that?

[18:58:10]

stuarta_ is now known as fred_basset

[18:58:48]

juski:

fred_basset: I wouldn't upgrade a kernel just for some crap Â£2 BT dongle ;)

[18:59:08]

fred_basset:

i would, but i'm like that :)

[18:59:45]

juski:

wouldn't know where to start upgrading a kernel on ubuntu anyway

[18:59:56]

Dibblah:

It's not Friday yet, is it?

[19:00:02]

juski:

if only..

[19:00:14]

hume:

gbee, i copied the content of .xmltv/tv_grab_se_swedb.conf to /mythtv/<source>.xml and not mfd --manual works, at least....

[19:00:16]

fred_basset:

no, but got bored of my secondary nick

[19:00:47]

juski:

don't say mfd. mfd is something else

[19:01:39]

** juski ponders. are there any more themes which are missing the embedded playback box?.. hmmm **

[19:01:42]

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[19:02:27]

ttuttle:

Hey, what's the new listing thing going to be like? Does it cost money?

[19:02:44]

laga:

hey, read the topic! :)

[19:02:45]

fryfrog:

nobody knows yet, but i'd bet *on* it costing something

[19:03:02]

ttuttle:

laga: Yeah, I read that.

[19:03:07]

GreyFoxx:

most likely going to have a small cost, but it will be as low as they can make it as they are not out to make money, just cover costs

[19:03:10]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: I don't mind, if it's reasonably priced.

[19:03:20]

gbee:

ttuttle: it *will* cost money, because it will cost a lot for the licenses and running costs

[19:03:21]

fryfrog:

ttuttle: i concur :)

[19:03:25]

ttuttle:

I'd prefer a low-cost, reliable service to a no-cost, unreliable one.

[19:03:36]

juski:

who said it's gonna be reliable? :-P

[19:03:37]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, many of us feel that way

[19:03:48]

ttuttle:

'cause then if they cut it off, I can yell and scream that they're mistreating their *paying customers*.

[19:04:02]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[19:04:16]

juski:

jees. all the yelling & screaming there's been because a free service isn't up to snuff.. hate to think of the noise if..

[19:04:28]

ttuttle:

Okay, I'm looking to add a TV receiver to a box I'm considering building for college. We've got (I think) unencrypted cable TV, and I might want to pick up broadcast as well. What's a good card? Is HD worth the trouble?

[19:04:46]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, it will be interesting to see the support mail/forums

[19:05:05]

fryfrog:

ttuttle: I like HD :)

[19:05:25]

juski:

from what I've seen of HD, I'm not in any rush to buy a new TV

[19:05:25]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: I'm currently recording HD from the firewire out of my STB. It's been pretty sweet so far

[19:05:26]

gbee:

problem is that even though it will be provided at no profit, people will still get upset when it is unavailable etc

[19:06:04]

ttuttle:

And cheap is better.

[19:06:05]

juski:

I don't envy anybody setting up a tv guide data service. no sir

[19:06:33]

GreyFoxx:

juski: HEhe it's going to be some work that's for sure :)

[19:06:43]

jams:

yep

[19:06:48]

jams:

no question about that

[19:06:58]

ttuttle:

So what's a good SD card that works solidly?

[19:07:07]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: the pvr 150/500

[19:07:10]

ttuttle:

The processor will be fast enough that software encoding isn't an issue.

[19:07:12]

juski:

hauppauge pvr150/pvr500

[19:07:13]

GreyFoxx:

best bang for the buck

[19:07:21]

juski:

software encoding isn't worth your effort

[19:07:24]

ttuttle:

What's the difference?

[19:07:24]

gbee:

I think it would cause less grief to setup a profitable business rather than a not for profit service, at least then they'd be compensated for dealing with whiny users

[19:07:31]

GreyFoxx:

the 150 has 1 tuner, the 500 has 2

[19:07:34]

juski:

software encoding isn't worth your effort – one more time for effect

[19:07:34]

ttuttle:

Is the PVR-150 the WinTV-PVR-150?

[19:07:37]

GreyFoxx:

yes

[19:07:59]

fryfrog:

the PVR500 *is* 2 PVR150s on one card

[19:08:08]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: How much $$$?

[19:08:09]

fryfrog:

so the only diff is that you get 2 of them in the space of 1 card :)

[19:08:19]

juski:

software encoding is beyond most users' abilities due to their lack of document reading skills. then if you want multiple tuners.. oh dear God

[19:08:21]

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[19:08:23]

ttuttle:

Oh, it says it doesn't provide closed captioning.

[19:08:31]

fryfrog:

been a while, but last I looked I *think* the 150s were ~$40 and the 500 was $120 or so

[19:08:32]

juski:

ttuttle: CC works on the pvr150

[19:08:33]

ttuttle:

juski: I can read. How hard is it, for someone who can read?

[19:08:41]

fryfrog:

oh no, not closed captioning!

[19:08:50]

ttuttle:

juski: The MythTV Wiki page says "Does not produce VBI/Closed-Captioning data. See IVTV.".

[19:08:53]

juski:

ttuttle: for somebody who can and *will* read – not hard

[19:09:03]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: That page needs to be updated

[19:09:06]

juski:

ttuttle: the ivtv driver supports it now AFAIK

[19:09:10]

ttuttle:

juski: What does it involve, overall?

[19:09:14]

juski:

nobody has bothered to update the wiki

[19:09:36]

ttuttle:

ok

[19:09:50]

fryfrog:

so CC/VBI does work now?

[19:09:56]

juski:

ttuttle: getting audio capture to grab the input the tuner audio is plugged into, and mute the line input. sometimes issues with the tuner audio not being unmuted on the tv tuner card itself but that's a mere command away

[19:10:35]

ttuttle:

juski: Ah, it goes through the sound card?

[19:10:42]

ttuttle:

juski: Sounds like a recipe for AV sync problems.

[19:10:47]

juski:

it's funny but it seems if people are willing to shell out a little more on a hardware encoding card they come with the requisite nouse to read the docs

[19:10:51]

juski:

ttuttle: not at all

[19:11:25]

ttuttle:

juski: Okay, Newegg has something called the "Hauppage 274 PCI Interface Personal video recorder". It is listed as including a "WinTV-PVR-150 MCE Kit". Will this work? It's only $54.

[19:12:00]

ttuttle:

And what about HD? What's a good, cheap HD card (that also gets SD, of course)?

[19:12:02]

juski:

I'd say to read the channel FAQ & the wiki etc.. the subject is very well covered already

[19:12:11]

ttuttle:

ok

[19:12:28]

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[19:14:49]

ttuttle:

juski: Is there a "recommended cards" list somewhere?

[19:15:21]

juski:

for analogue SDTV there are only 2 cards any sane person would recommend. we've covered those already

[19:15:29]

olds:

you can look on the wiki for information about various cards

[19:15:33]

ttuttle:

juski: Yeah. They seem good. What about HDTV?

[19:15:39]

juski:

look in the wiki!

[19:16:02]

ttuttle:

I'm looking, but there are 21 of them, and I assume there's an informal consensus about which ones are great and which suck.

[19:16:13]

fryfrog:

I'd get an OEM PVR500, or 150. Don't bother with an HD/SD card, the "SD" is always a bitbanger

[19:16:16]

olds:

are there any hdtv + sdtv cards?

[19:16:21]

fryfrog:

the air2pc cards are good, and ummm hd5500?

[19:16:21]

olds:

ahh

[19:16:34]

sphery:

ttuttle: fryfrog is right. For SD, all HDTV capture cards suck

[19:16:39]

ttuttle:

Does the HD-5500 obey the broadcast flag?

[19:16:43]

juski:

no

[19:16:46]

ttuttle:

sphery: Ah.

[19:16:55]

juski:

even if it did, linux would ignore it

[19:17:08]

fryfrog:

nothing does, afaik. that was abolished or extended i believe

[19:17:13]

ttuttle:

juski: Okay.

[19:17:15]

sphery:

IMHO, you're better off with one HDTV card and one PVR-150

[19:17:18]

fryfrog:

well, firewire and 5C do i guess

[19:17:21]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Yeah, I heard something like that, but wasn't sure if it was true.

[19:17:49]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Besides the Air2PC (discontinued), are there any good HD cards cheaper than the 5500?

[19:17:49]

fryfrog:

Since there will be way more SD channels than HD, i'd get 1x PVR500 (oem) and a HD card if you can afford it

[19:18:01]

fryfrog:

air2pc is discontinued?

[19:18:09]

sphery:

not really abolished, just not (yet) required by law for all hardware to support the broadcast flag

[19:18:11]

fryfrog:

you could get the non-QAM ones for like $50 or less i think?

[19:18:13]

GreyFoxx:

I use the A180 but instead of using it for OTA HDTV, I use it for reading the QAM signal to get at digital cable channels. It works well that way

[19:18:21]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Is there an easy way to wire one antenna to all 2/3 receivers?

[19:18:22]

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[19:18:31]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Wait, your cable is unencrypted?

[19:18:41]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Forgive my ignorance... what's QAM?

[19:18:43]

mchou:

lol, zap2it just sent me a renewal notice

[19:18:44]

fryfrog:

yeah, i use my air2pc for QAM cable too

[19:18:56]

sphery:

QAM is the modulation used by cable. 8VSB is used for OTA

[19:18:57]

ttuttle:

mchou: In the mail?

[19:19:01]

juski:

ttuttle: Quadrature Amplitude Modulation

[19:19:05]

fryfrog:

mchou: ahhaha, i had to renew a few days after they canceled too :)

[19:19:06]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: 150 channels of unencrypted channels. Certainly not all of them, but all 80 of ths SDTV channels, plus more

[19:19:15]

ttuttle:

sphery: Is most cable receivable using this card, or is most of it scrambled?

[19:19:15]

mchou:

and I renewed and it said my sub lasts till november :)

[19:19:17]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Cool.

[19:19:18]

GreyFoxx:

plus my cable company opens the firewire port for ALL channels including DHTV

[19:19:30]

sphery:

ttuttle: It's a roll of the device.

[19:19:30]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: What company?!

[19:19:34]

GreyFoxx:

so between my pvr cards, my QAM card and my firewire I can record a lot of stuff

[19:19:36]

sphery:

All up to your cable service provider.

[19:19:42]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: Eastlink

[19:19:50]

GreyFoxx:

They are an enlightnened bunch

[19:20:05]

fryfrog:

I need to re-scan and get my air2pc cards working again :/

[19:20:08]

GreyFoxx:

they turn up firewire and if you can get it working then fine. they just wont help you get it working

[19:20:08]

ttuttle:

That explains why I haven't heard of them. Are they national, or regional?

[19:20:12]

fryfrog:

they've just been sitting there doing nothing

[19:20:14]

juski:

<8 my QAM16 & QAM64 :)

[19:20:31]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: they have locations in all Canadian provinces and Territories

[19:20:38]

GreyFoxx:

but primarily in Nova Scotia

[19:20:46]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Oh, /me is US.

[19:21:12]

juski:

the land of common sense & decency? Blame Canada ;)

[19:21:17]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[19:21:21]

ttuttle:

juski: Nah, Canada rocks.

[19:21:33]

sphery:

I have 4 pcHDTV HD-3000's (the HD-5500, which is current, is better and cheaper). As GreyFoxx said, a lot of people use (and love) the Avermedia A180 (which is usually cheaper than the HD-5500).

[19:21:39]

juski:

ttuttle: that's what I said

[19:21:54]

ttuttle:

sphery: Does the Avermedia one work well?

[19:22:07]

ttuttle:

juski: Oh, /me misread land as lack.

[19:22:08]

mchou:

umm, doesnt avermedia use like really cheap HW?

[19:22:08]

sphery:

Seems to work well for GreyFoxx. :)

[19:22:31]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: It was dead simple to get running and works very well, at least for QAM stuff

[19:22:38]

GreyFoxx:

I don't have OTA HDTV here to rty it on

[19:22:41]

juski:

anyway, time for me to clean out my PSU

[19:23:06]

sphery:

Most of the people I've seen who use it are using QAM (digital cable) rather than OTA. I've never used it myself, so I can't say anything good or bad about it.

[19:23:14]

sphery:

(where it = Avermedia A180)

[19:23:41]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: how did your scanning go for QAM stuff though, I imagine it was quite manual?

[19:23:52]

fryfrog:

I mean, you gotta scan all the channels, then manually tune/identify them?

[19:23:55]

sphery:

juski: I destroyed a relatively-new PSU by vacumming it (while it was off, even). Hope you have better luck than I did.

[19:24:03]

fryfrog:

then get the XMLTVID entered for each one you care about?

[19:24:08]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: Nope, I just told myth qam256 and it did the work for me

[19:24:10]

fryfrog:

wtf, how can you do that?

[19:24:17]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: but how did you get chan info?

[19:24:22]

fryfrog:

like, name and such?

[19:24:33]

fryfrog:

also, do you use svn -fixes or head?

[19:24:40]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: If you have a sane cable company that info is in the stream just like with sat

[19:24:48]

GreyFoxx:

but unfortunately I did have to do that part by hand

[19:24:49]

sphery:

vacuuming (spell correctly doesn't look right.)

[19:24:50]

fryfrog:

ohhhhh, bastards :/

[19:24:58]

fryfrog:

ah, i did too

[19:25:07]

GreyFoxx:

I manually went to each chnanel and filled in the callsign/xmltvid in mythwebs channel editor

[19:25:08]

fryfrog:

then they re-arranged all my channels :(

[19:25:17]

fryfrog:

ah, okay so that is still the ways

[19:25:18]

GreyFoxx:

and I always run svn head

[19:25:34]

fryfrog:

any specific reason?

[19:25:45]

fryfrog:

is the firewire support better? qam scanning?

[19:25:48]

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[19:26:02]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: I'm a dev

[19:26:06]

sphery:

Probably because GreyFoxx is a dev

[19:26:07]

GreyFoxx:

I always run svn

[19:26:12]

sphery:

(and a faster typist than I)

[19:26:13]

fryfrog:

oh, ahahha duh :)

[19:26:31]

GreyFoxx:

plus someones gotta use/test it :)

[19:26:34]

jams:

heh

[19:26:39]

fryfrog:

I used to run gentoo + svn head, but when i switched to Ubuntu i went with -fixes

[19:26:49]

fryfrog:

asside from my firewire being a bit shoddy, it has been okay

[19:27:02]

fryfrog:

going to svn head sounds interesting, but it bit me a few times in the past :/

[19:27:08]

GreyFoxx:

So far I haven't had a single firewire recording glitch that wasn't my fault

[19:27:13]

GreyFoxx:

I'm very happy with it

[19:27:22]

fryfrog:

mine gets these weird recordings

[19:27:24]

ttuttle:

So how bad is SD on the HD-5500?

[19:27:50]

sphery:

It's bad because on it (and any other HDTV capture card), you end up with a frame grabber (or, as juski says, a "lame" grabber).

[19:27:52]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: the SD on those cards are basically just bttv framegrabbers requiring software encoding

[19:28:00]

sphery:

So, you have to use the CPU to do all the work of encoding.

[19:28:00]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Really?

[19:28:04]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: yes

[19:28:07]

fryfrog:

i'm not even sure how to describe them, they play back but... are *real* jerkey and lots of artifacts and the audio is farked. They are so bad that commflagging fails on them, I have to massage the DB to prtend it is already done

[19:28:17]

sphery:

It's quite a strain on the system--especially if you have plans for capturing more than one SDTV channel at once.

[19:28:17]

ttuttle:

sphery: I'm going to have something like a 2.33 GHz dual-core box... I don't mind.

[19:28:27]

GreyFoxx:

none of the HD cards have any sort of onboard encoding, they don't need it since the HD streams are already encoded

[19:28:28]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[19:28:30]

sphery:

So, you can record 2 shows at once.

[19:28:36]

fryfrog:

get one HD and one pvr150

[19:28:42]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: weird

[19:28:50]

ttuttle:

What about USB tuners? I assume I can't get a USB HDTV tuner? What about SDTV?

[19:28:54]

fryfrog:

I'm 98% sure it is the cable boxes, not myth

[19:28:57]

ttuttle:

(This would be for a laptop.)

[19:29:17]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: there are several SDTV ones. I've never used any myself through

[19:29:18]

fryfrog:

It *tends* to happen on specific channels like TNTHD and UniversalHD and not on others (most of the FTA HD)

[19:29:24]

GreyFoxx:

the plextor one does encoding

[19:29:27]

GreyFoxx:

not sure about the others

[19:29:36]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: FTA?

[19:29:45]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: ahh

[19:29:58]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Okay.

[19:30:02]

ttuttle:

Anyone? USB tuners?

[19:30:06]

sphery:

Though you can potentially get better quality from a software encoder (frame grabber) by applying filters, anything that was ever NTSC or PAL will be terrible quality compared to digital stuff and the difference between PVR-150 and optimized-filtered-frame-grabber stuff is negligible compared to the difference between analog and digital.

[19:30:22]

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[19:30:27]

sphery:

So, IMHO, the "quality" argument holds no weight.

[19:30:30]

ttuttle:

Lemme check what the cable signal actually is.

[19:31:03]

sphery:

(Basically, like comparing the fragrances of 2 garbage bins--even though one may smell better, it still doesn't smell good).

[19:31:26]

GreyFoxx:

hehehe I like that analogy

[19:31:26]

ttuttle:

sphery: Yeah, I'm not watching analog TV for the picture,

[19:32:13]

GreyFoxx:

hehe my master backend is showing 11 idle tuners right now :)

[19:32:16]

GreyFoxx:

That's pretty rare

[19:32:25]

sphery:

You can always start out with an HD-5500 and set it up for analog and digital and then decide whether to get a PVR-150.

[19:32:37]

fryfrog:

holey crap, 11 tuners???

[19:32:41]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: You have 11 tuners? WTF...

[19:32:44]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: I had 48 hours of no recordings. Also rare.

[19:32:45]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: yes

[19:32:47]

fryfrog:

I should throw my PVR500 and PVR250 into mine, i'd have...

[19:32:56]

GreyFoxx:

and I have some of my tuners on ashelf not in use :)

[19:32:59]

olds:

some usb tuners?

[19:33:02]

fryfrog:

2x Firewire, 2x Air2PC, 1x PVR500 and 1x 250

[19:33:12]

fryfrog:

that'd be only 7 :/

[19:33:17]

fryfrog:

what are the others in yours?

[19:34:00]

GreyFoxx:

8 IPTV (being fed via the QAM card using some VLC trickery so I can record 8 channels at once), 1 Firewire, 2 PVR cards. My DVBS, BTTV and 3rd pvr card are on a shelf right now

[19:34:01]

sphery:

ttuttle: But, one thing that also makes the PVR-150's $60 price tag small is the fact that it's easy to get working in Myth compared to configuring both the analog and digital sides of an HD-5500. Might easilyh save $60 in time.

[19:34:33]

GreyFoxx:

So yes I can record 11 things at once

[19:34:36]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[19:34:56]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Wanna mail me some of the extras?

[19:35:07]

GreyFoxx:

soon I plan to remove the 8 IPTV ones and play with the multirec branch instead

[19:35:12]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: hehe

[19:35:24]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: is that the multiplex thing that eventually might be in myth?

[19:35:27]

fryfrog:

ah

[19:35:32]

GreyFoxx:

at my office I have 2 pvr cards and 8IPTV streams as well :)

[19:35:34]

sphery:

I have 4 HD-3000's, 1 PVR-350, 1 PVR-250, 1 PVR-150 (all NTSC/ATSC) and one PVR-150 PAL.

[19:35:47]

fryfrog:

does your work involve dev on mythtv?

[19:35:52]

fryfrog:

or just happen to have it?

[19:35:57]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: No, just lots of geeks

[19:36:01]

fryfrog:

ahhh

[19:36:02]

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[19:36:08]

GreyFoxx:

who on my first day gave me the hardware to install us an office mythtv setup

[19:36:12]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: So you receive 8 IPTV signals directly over the Internet? What does the QAM card have to do with that?

[19:36:20]

sphery:

I only use the HD-3000's. The others are paperweights. The PVR-350 is actually the best one for that job--it's heavier--though it was a waste of money getting it for capturing (since the TV out wasn't worthwhile).

[19:36:41]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: I'm pulling an entire transport of the QAM card which contains 8 digital channels. I break it out into 8 IPTV streams which I feed to myth

[19:36:55]

GreyFoxx:

so I can record all 8 channels at once

[19:37:25]

GreyFoxx:

Infact technically I can record the same channel multiple times with it

[19:37:40]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Oh, so one card receives an entire "mega-channel" which has 8 "sub-channels" in it, and then you use IPTV so myth sees them as independent sources?

[19:37:44]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: What channel?

[19:37:45]

GreyFoxx:

I was going to setup inhouse multicast video but haven't bothered

[19:37:58]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: yes that's bhasically how I do it

[19:38:01]

fryfrog:

*eventually* that should be part of myth, right?

[19:38:07]

fryfrog:

one hopes

[19:38:10]

GreyFoxx:

the multirec mythtv branch allows you to do the same thing

[19:38:14]

fryfrog:

the multirec thing

[19:38:20]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: there is already a seperate branch where people are doing it

[19:38:21]

ttuttle:

If my college says their programming guide is available from zap2it, can I use it with Myth or not?

[19:38:32]

fryfrog:

Ah, nice. Expected to merge in for .21?

[19:38:41]

ttuttle:

sphery: What's the PVR-350 like?

[19:38:43]

** sphery thinks GreyFoxx is Greg on the wiki **

[19:38:44]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: I imagine so

[19:38:45]

fryfrog:

ttuttle: sure, till zap2it goes away in sept :p

[19:38:46]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Multiple . . . ngs_with_VLC

[19:38:52]

GreyFoxx:

sphery: Yeah, I need to finish that

[19:38:53]

sphery:

Didn't know that was your page.

[19:39:01]

fryfrog:

ttuttle: it is a PVR250 w/ hardware mpeg2 *out*

[19:39:03]

GreyFoxx:

I'll finish it this weekend

[19:39:11]

GreyFoxx:

Or maybe tomorrow if I don't feel like working :)

[19:39:15]

sphery:

ttuttle: PVR-350 is a waste of money. Even when I got mine in 2003 it was a waste.

[19:39:17]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: But if my college is paying them, can I still use it, or is it the MythTV-formatted feeds they're cutting off?

[19:39:24]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Okay, what about a PVR-250? What's that do?

[19:39:37]

fryfrog:

datadirect's zap2it for mythtv (and others) are going away

[19:39:45]

GreyFoxx:

the 150 replaced the 250 in the PVR lineup

[19:39:50]

sphery:

Any relatively modern processor can handle standard-definition MPEG-2 decoding in real time and you get much more capability using software decoding.

[19:39:52]

fryfrog:

PVR250 is the first mpeg2 from haupage, PVR150 came after it

[19:39:58]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Okay.

[19:40:12]

fryfrog:

PVR250 and 350 are just older

[19:40:15]

fryfrog:

basically :)

[19:40:20]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: basically they learned enough from the 250/350 to make the 150/500 ata lower cost

[19:40:21]

sphery:

The 150 basically has fewer chips (the chips it have are more "integrated"), so it's cheaper to produce and uses less power.

[19:40:26]

ttuttle:

sphery: Wait, wouldn't you get more control over the encoding process if you get it raw and encode it yourself?

[19:40:31]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[19:40:35]

ttuttle:

sphery: Is it good, in general?

[19:40:35]

sphery:

THe 150 is 5V or 3.3V PCI compatible

[19:40:38]

sphery:

Makes less heat.

[19:40:51]

sphery:

So, 150 is cheaper and better.

[19:41:52]

sphery:

ttuttle: Yep. More control over encoding--you can apply filters. It can improve quality.

[19:42:18]

sphery:

See my comment from 15:30:06 (adjust timezone as needed for hour)

[19:42:19]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay. The school's cable TV is all analog, like the kind you can get with a "cable-ready" TV. So I don't need HD for the next 4 years. (I wonder if they'll still be sending SDTV in 2009 when the government mandates HDTV OTA.)

[19:42:28]

fryfrog:

ttuttle: More control... but what happens if your system hits 100% usage while you are recording and encoding?

[19:42:33]

fryfrog:

you get dropped frames :/

[19:42:48]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: I would *hope* that it would keep saving raw frames, and let the encoding lag.

[19:42:54]

fryfrog:

how?

[19:43:02]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Um, disk?

[19:43:02]

fryfrog:

saving raw to disk would be *huge*

[19:43:03]

GreyFoxx:

ttuttle: There is too much raw data to do that

[19:43:12]

ttuttle:

GreyFoxx: Ok.

[19:43:17]

fryfrog:

it does raw -> encoded in real time, then writes to disk

[19:43:25]

fryfrog:

so if cpu can't spare some cycles, it drops em

[19:43:32]

juski:

hmm psu is still noisy. needs new fans

[19:43:45]

fryfrog:

with hardware mpeg2, all you need to worry about is iowait :)

[19:44:00]

juski:

might cool itself better now there's no gunky fluff there though :)

[19:44:25]

GreyFoxx:

juski: Sewing machine oil works wonders too

[19:44:35]

GreyFoxx:

1 or 2 drops and a noisy fan is silent

[19:44:36]

sphery:

ttuttle: Improving my quality analogy: Basically, comparing the quality of hardware-encoded analog TV to software-encoded analog TV optimized with filtering is like comparing the fragrances of 2 garbage bins--even though one may smell better, the difference won't be what you notice.

[19:44:52]

jams:

just dont drop the oil on the edges of the fan blades while it's running

[19:45:04]

sphery:

NTSC/PAL suck, so garbage in = garbage out...

[19:45:17]

sphery:

Regardless of how you filter it.

[19:45:30]

sphery:

And, if you're not watching analog for the picture...

[19:46:17]

ttuttle:

sphery: Well, how good is the signal going to be on an analog CATV system?

[19:48:03]

fryfrog:

mix some graphite powder with the 3in1 (sewing machine) oil, it'll last *way* longer

[19:49:03]

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[19:50:55]

jams:

woohoo my 4 oclock meeting has been canceled!

[19:51:10]

sphery:

ttuttle: If the signal is good, the picture will be OK. Digital cable piped decoded by a STB and output using S-Video is better than analog from the cable company. Digital cable direct to a QAM capture card is better.

[19:52:01]

sphery:

ttuttle: But, MPEG encoding tends to "bring out" the flaws in the picture. And, if you get a nice projector or large-screen HDTV, you'll really see the difference.

[19:52:57]

ttuttle:

sphery: Is it feasible to use a better codec?

[19:53:01]

sphery:

The difference between analog from a hardware encoder and filtered-software-encoded analog is much smaller than the difference between captured with an analog tuner captured from S-Video from an STB.

[19:53:16]

sphery:

ttuttle: No. It's really the compression that does it.

[19:53:26]

ttuttle:

sphery: Really?

[19:53:34]

ttuttle:

sphery: Aren't there better compression formats?

[19:53:52]

sphery:

So, short of using an uncompressed (=hundred GB/hr or so) format, it's not going to help.

[19:54:01]

sphery:

just guessing on the size.

[19:54:37]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[19:55:05]

ttuttle:

sphery: So I guess the PVR-150 or 500 is fine.

[19:55:20]

sphery:

My best (non-researched) guess: Most compression formats are designed to take a clean image and make it smaller. The approaches they use for making it smaller are designed to notice the "edges"--which need to still be visible. Since noise is an edge, they try to make sure it's still visible.

[19:56:12]

sphery:

As I said, you can just get an HDTV card that also does analog (frame grabber) capture and decide whether it works for your or whether to get a PVR-150.

[19:56:33]

fryfrog:

the HD+SD, they can't generally do *both* at the same time, right?

[19:56:41]

lwizardl:

is there a list somewhere of cards that work to output to a hdtv?

[19:56:43]

sphery:

Nope. TTBOMK, never.

[19:56:55]

sphery:

You'd have to have 2 capture cards to do both at the same time.

[19:56:57]

fryfrog:

also, I think he said his college cable network only sends analog, so he probably won't get HD anyway

[19:57:00]

fryfrog:

TTBOMK?

[19:57:06]

ttuttle:

sphery: Well, a PVR-150 is cheap compared to an HDTV card, right?

[19:57:08]

sphery:

to the best of my knowledge

[19:57:10]

fryfrog:

ah

[19:57:18]

sphery:

PVR-150 is about $60-$70

[19:57:20]

fryfrog:

$40 vs. $80ish?

[19:57:26]

sphery:

Avermedia A180 is $80

[19:57:28]

fryfrog:

PVR150 OEM should be like $40?

[19:57:33]

ttuttle:

sphery: Is it really good?

[19:57:37]

sphery:

Depends where (and when) you buy it.

[19:57:51]

sphery:

Don't know about A180--I use HD-3000's./

[19:58:26]

sphery:

But, the newer/better HD-5500 is like $125 (I bought my first 2 HD-3000's for $195 and my second two for $165).

[19:59:04]

sphery:

But, yeah, you can probably find a PVR-150 for about $40 if you look hard (and long) enough.

[19:59:13]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Newegg had the PVR150 for $68, or in a questionable package for $54.

[19:59:24]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: And the A180 for $80.

[19:59:40]

ttuttle:

So it's definitely true that the A180 will work well?

[19:59:53]

ttuttle:

(I don't mean quality-wise, I mean stability-/feature-wise.)

[20:00:01]

fryfrog:

damn, that sucks :/

[20:00:09]

fryfrog:

I swear i've seen a 150 for $40–50 :/

[20:00:19]

fryfrog:

A180 will be *better* for HD

[20:00:36]

fryfrog:

if you don't have *any* chance of doing HD, it'll just end up being an $80 *framegrabber* that you can pick up for $10–15

[20:00:42]

sphery:

ttuttle: Just make sure you don't get the AverTV PVR-150. It's not the same.

[20:00:49]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[20:00:50]

sphery:

And AverTV definitely uses cheap hardware.

[20:00:53]

fryfrog:

so if you *know* you won't be getting any HD at college, go PVR150

[20:01:04]

sphery:

(Perhaps that's what someone was thinking when they asked about AverMedia)

[20:01:19]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Well, I figure the big HDTV transition is in 18 months. I should not plan to throw out the card.

[20:01:48]

fryfrog:

yeah, but in 2 years the PCI HD cards will be cheaper, faster, better, stronger, harder, etc

[20:01:50]

sphery:

fryfrog: Exactly---any HDTV capture card used for analog capture is equivalent to a $10 frame grabber

[20:01:54]

sphery:

Good description.

[20:02:16]

fryfrog:

anwayy, time to go home!

[20:02:17]

sphery:

ttuttle: 18 months? I thought the deadline was 1997?

[20:02:20]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: oK.

[20:02:24]

sphery:

Oh, yeah, they keep extending it.

[20:02:36]

ttuttle:

sphery: No. In April 2009 (IIRC) all the analog OTA signals die.

[20:02:49]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: Oh, another question.

[20:03:12]

sphery:

(In other words, I doubt it will actually occur in 18 months. Politicians don't like telling their constituents, "You all need to go out and buy all new equipment for your TV,"--even when they should have long ago.

[20:03:12]

ttuttle:

fryfrog: If I can get a framegrabber for $10... does that have a tuner, and can I get 4 for $40 and have a 4-tuner MythTV system that can't encode anything? ;-)

[20:03:41]

ttuttle:

Are there any good SD USB tuners? I tried searching for USB on the Wiki but I think the word "USB" is too short to be indexed.

[20:03:43]

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[20:03:54]

sphery:

ttuttle: You probably couldn't do real-time encoding of 4 SDTV streams with only one computer.

[20:04:05]

ttuttle:

sphery: Hmm.

[20:04:18]

sphery:

Perhaps with a quad-core, but then there's not much left for playback.

[20:04:20]

ttuttle:

sphery: Sounds like a challenge ;-)

[20:04:26]

sphery:

Generally, you want a processor per stream.

[20:05:19]

sphery:

You could definitely do it with 4 computers (and could probably do playback at the same time, too--especially with creative ordering of your capture cards).

[20:05:37]

sphery:

You have much more control over how (and where) things happen when using multiple computers.

[20:05:47]

ttuttle:

sphery: Ordering?

[20:05:48]

sphery:

Multiple cores is left up to the system.

[20:06:01]

ttuttle:

sphery: Not true. You can pin processes to cores.

[20:06:33]

sphery:

Basically, if your combined frontend/backend has the least-preferred capture card, it would be least likely to be encoding while you're watching TV.

[20:06:38]

sphery:

Pin processes doesn't help.

[20:06:44]

sphery:

Mythbackend is one process.

[20:06:44]

ttuttle:

sphery: Ah.

[20:06:51]

ttuttle:

sphery: No?

[20:06:55]

sphery:

Recording 4 streams in multiple threads in one process.

[20:07:32]

olds:

'tis true

[20:07:37]

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[20:07:59]

sphery:

But, if you're doing Myth for the right reasons (because it's a challenge/to learn/etc.), you can try out anything

[20:08:12]

sphery:

If you're doing Myth to get a PVR, TiVo is a lot cheaper

[20:08:15]

sphery:

(when factoring in time)

[20:08:31]

sphery:

And, cable-company DVR's are likely even cheaper.

[20:08:40]

sphery:

But, playing with Myth is fun.

[20:09:01]

sphery:

So, though I've been very negative sounding, try things out and push the envelope.

[20:09:09]

sphery:

It's worth it in the long run.

[20:09:50]

ttuttle:

sphery: I'm assuming the computer already exists.

[20:10:00]

sphery:

BTW, Myth is basically taking the "integrated" approach to a DVR. Freevo takes the "stick together a bunch of external processes" approach.

[20:10:15]

ttuttle:

sphery: 'cause I was building (on Newegg, not in real life yet) a desktop and thought "this needs a capture card so this can run MythTV".

[20:11:08]

sphery:

Yeah, it's possible to make a MythTV system less money than a TiVo or whatever, but IMHO, it's still far more expensive.

[20:11:36]

sphery:

TiVo is a plug in (and maybe make a phone call or go to a website for activation) and never worry about it again thing.

[20:11:53]

sphery:

Myth is a sink into which you can pour as much time as you desire.

[20:12:03]

sphery:

(Though, once configured doesn't have to take a lot of time).

[20:12:19]

ttuttle:

sphery: I'm not considering this a "MythTV system". I'm considering it a desktop, that can run MythTV. So the investment in MythTV is simply the capture card(s).

[20:12:41]

sphery:

The /money/ investment is the capture card(s) (and perhaps extra disk space)

[20:12:48]

sphery:

The real investment is the time. :)

[20:12:58]

sphery:

Depends on your current valuation of your time versus your money.

[20:13:25]

sphery:

(at college, the time may be less expensive than the money, but as you get older (and have less time left ;), that changes)

[20:13:30]

olds:

I love my mythbox :)

[20:13:33]

sphery:

Me too.

[20:13:51]

sphery:

I also spend way too much time on it--and not really the watching TV part of it.

[20:14:08]

olds:

I watch a lot of tv

[20:14:18]

olds:

probably my favorite feature of mythtv is the power search

[20:15:19]

olds:

for example, I have it record any movies between midnight and 7am that are > 3 stars

[20:15:27]

sphery:

BTW, ttutle, for "VCR-quality" SDTV, you'll need about 1.25GB/hr. For "good" SDTV, you'd need about 2GB/hr. For HDTV, you'll need 3.5–9GB/hr.

[20:15:32]

olds:

as long as the tuners are otherwise idle

[20:15:39]

olds:

I get some crap movies, but a lot of good ones

[20:16:07]

sphery:

For MPEG-4 (from a software encoder or after transcoding the hardware-encoded MPEG-2), you'd need about 1.25GB/hr for "good" SDTV.

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[20:17:29]

sphery:

olds: I basically tell Myth to record every episode of any new series that comes on the broadcast networks. Then, when they're cancelled, I delete without watching. When people say they suck, I delete. When people say they're great, I watch (usually at least 6 months after the series started).

[20:17:57]

sphery:

Has really helped--I don't get all invested in shows that they'll never properly end.

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[20:20:22]

iamlindoro:

olds, I do that same thing, except I record anything after dark with the words "passion" or "diaries," or "forbidden." ;)

[20:20:25]

iamlindoro:

haha

[20:21:17]

sphery:

lol

[20:21:32]

sphery:

I'm guessing you got a lot of recordings.

[20:21:37]

ttuttle:

sphery: If not transcoded, how big is SDTV from a hardware encoder?

[20:21:41]

iamlindoro:

A lot of GOOD recordings.

[20:21:48]

iamlindoro:

Not a bad one yet

[20:22:11]

iamlindoro:

so long as you don't want, you know... plot or anything

[20:22:50]

sphery:

ttuttle: You can specify the bitrate for hardware encoders. The settings I used gave me 1.25GB/hr (but "low" quality pictures). 2GB/hr would be better.

[20:24:37]

sphery:

ttuttle: I used an average bitrate of 2200kbps (for video only--audio was another 192kbps or something) for the 1.25GB/hr (about 1.15GiB/hr).

[20:26:31]

sphery:

ttuttle: Better would be an average bitrate of 4500kbps. That would give you about 2.15GB/hr (2GiB/hr).

[20:27:00]

ttuttle:

sphery: Heh, I'm used to 0.58 GB/hr. (My DVD recorder records 8 hours to a single 4.7 GB DVD-RAM.)

[20:28:13]

sphery:

(GB is Gigabytes = 1,000,000,000 bytes; GiB is Gibibytes = 1024*1024*1024 bytes = 1073741824 bytes, so the GB/hr is useful for comparing to disk size--which is given in GB)

[20:28:58]

sphery:

ttuttle: You can capture at 4500 average/6000 max bitate (for the 2.15GB/hr files) and transcode to a lower-resolution MPEG-2 and get almost the same quality at lower bitrate.

[20:29:05]

sphery:

Many who burn to DVD do exactly that.

[20:29:23]

sphery:

Capturing at low bitrate will give you lower quality--even if you reduce resolution sufficiently.

[20:30:00]

sphery:

Your DVD burner probably uses 352x480 resolution, so it can get away with almost half the bitrate of 720x480 with the same quality (at least the same quality on a low-quality, i.e. SDTV, display).

[20:30:28]

ttuttle:

sphery: Ah.

[20:30:36]

sphery:

DVD's must be 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, or 352x240, IIRC.

[20:30:37]

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[20:30:53]

sphery:

352x240 is low quality even with sufficient bitrate

[20:31:33]

sphery:

352x480 is probably about the limit of the resolvability of the electronics in any analog capture card, so you really don't lose anything by transcoding to 352x480.

[20:32:05]

ttuttle:

sphery: Okay.

[20:32:32]

sphery:

With a software encoder and sufficient processor resources, you could probably just capture at 352x480, but capturing with a hardware encoder makes the encoding to 352x480 not time-sensitive.

[20:33:24]

sphery:

(I.e. you can only get so far behind real-time before you run out of memory for buffering the raw frames. With the hardware encoder, you're writing the card's output (an MPEG-2 stream) to disk, where it can wait as long as the system needs.)

[20:34:23]

sphery:

BTW, the hardware encoder cards work best when capturing at 720x480 for NTSC.

[20:36:16]

ttuttle:

ok

[20:37:04]

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[20:44:40]

fred_basset:

now that is a sexy htpc case, but damn expensive -> http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/htpccases/hd160xt

[20:45:19]

iamlindoro:

That is sex-ay

[20:45:44]

iamlindoro:

wonder how much of the VFD functionality would work in linux

[20:46:00]

iamlindoro:

probably not much

[20:46:05]

fred_basset:

not much methinks.

[20:46:48]

bill2or3:

depends on the driver chip, I suppose.

[20:47:03]

iamlindoro:

I have my myth server in a nice HTPC case, but I still hide it from view

[20:47:14]

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[20:47:33]

fred_basset:

time has come for me to build a production server...

[20:48:24]

iamlindoro:

If I hadn't already run cabling through all the walls, I think I would move everything into a closet

[20:48:45]

iamlindoro:

But I would love to find one of those heavy, black metal media cabinets that they have in classrooms to fully enclose my setup

[20:50:09]

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[20:50:46]

willcooke:

iamlindoro, You can pick up cheap 19" racks from ebay, they're mostly plastic but should do the job nicely.

[20:51:13]

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[20:51:31]

LeaChim:

Hi, I'm getting a black screen when I try and view recordings using mythtv's internal player, yet they work fine in vlc for example – is there anyway to tell mythtv to use vlc to play the recordings, like you can in the videos section?

[20:51:54]

iamlindoro:

Will, good thought, will look there

[20:52:07]

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[20:52:16]

keith4:

how do I tell zap2it about a channel change?

[20:54:10]

iamlindoro:

Keith, can you be more specific?

[20:54:53]

iamlindoro:

as in, their database needs updating because your cable system has reordered channels, or something else?

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[21:08:57]

Chicago:

I just tried the mythtv-overlay on Gentoo. I think I like it. The only problem I found installing was a filesize mismastch on mythstream-17.2 (expected 200K received 500K)

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[21:29:19]

psymin:

Looks like this has been asked on the mailing list, but I'm not seeing relevant answers (I'm probably being blind). I want a MythTV box that will playback h264 content. Looks like choice of videocard isn't of any use (under linux anyway). What hardware is recommended?

[21:29:46]

Esine:

a powerful enough CPU

[21:30:39]

hads:

A big CPU

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[21:31:14]

psymin:

Neat. Does 64-bit help? Multicore? Is 2ghz big?

[21:31:35]

hads:

Multicore will help in the future when ffmpeg brings threaded stuff

[21:31:46]

directhex:

for now, a 5ghz core2 would be good

[21:31:50]

hads:

heh

[21:31:52]

psymin:

hehe

[21:31:58]

hads:

Quad

[21:31:59]

directhex:

certainly for boradcast-grade h264

[21:32:38]

directhex:

or you could do assorted dodgy things involving the loading of a commercial h264 codec for windows into myth. which is less than optimal

[21:32:41]

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[21:32:42]

psymin:

Is anyone here decoding h264, and what cpu are they using?

[21:33:03]

Chicago:

I'm checking out mythtv v0.21_p13987. The console output for the mythfronted client is showing repeatedly "stream: start_time: 1.578 duration: 294.458 bitrate=193 kb/s

[21:33:03]

Chicago:

0: start_time: 0.002 duration: 0.294"... What's being streamed?

[21:33:32]

directhex:

psymin, try a file from http://x264.nl/h.264.samples/

[21:33:41]

psymin:

nifty, thanks directhex

[21:33:44]

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[21:34:58]

directhex:

premiere.hd.ts is the most system intensive one of the lot

[21:35:10]

Chicago:

Anybody here using build 13987?

[21:35:14]

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[21:35:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hi

[21:35:31]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Anyone here have any firewire advice?

[21:35:55]

psymin:

interesting, looks like ffmpeg does have thread support currently .. at least a bit

[21:35:59]

Lord_Deathscythe:

need a bit of assistence.

[21:36:06]

hads:

Use a pink cable?

[21:36:22]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: I've seen lots of specific firewire modules in the kernel config. Do you explicitly set any of those?

[21:36:35]

directhex:

psymin, in svn maybe

[21:36:42]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I compiled all the firewire into the kernel.

[21:36:55]

Lord_Deathscythe:

let me pull up my config real quick

[21:37:25]

Lord_Deathscythe:

lspci indicates it's 02:06.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller (rev 46)

[21:37:27]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: Do you get a description of your firewire with dmesg or in lspci -v? Pase that too. :)

[21:37:41]

directhex:

all firewire uses the same driver, regardless of OS

[21:38:03]

directhex:

from via onboard to the firewire built into soundblaster audigy cards

[21:38:05]

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[21:38:30]

Lord_Deathscythe:

yup, and I made sure it had all the needed firewire compiled into the kernel instead of as modules

[21:38:43]

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[21:38:45]

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[21:38:47]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I always do that with interface ports instead of modulize, doesn't make sense to me not to

[21:38:51]

hads:

Modules are good

[21:38:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

2:06.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller (rev 46) (prog-if 10 [OHCI])

[21:38:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc. IEEE 1394 Host Controller

[21:38:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Flags: bus master, stepping, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 17

[21:38:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Memory at fdeff000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K]

[21:38:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I/O ports at cc00 [size=128]

[21:38:55]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2

[21:38:59]

directhex:

modules are always good

[21:39:05]

Lord_Deathscythe:

but that's the Firewire information on the card

[21:39:15]

directhex:

and why bother pasting output? firewire is firewire is firewire

[21:39:20]

hads:

Lord_Deathscythe: Use a paste site.

[21:39:47]

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[21:40:24]

imperfect-:

Hey

[21:40:48]

imperfect-:

ANyone know what I need to do to get Ubuntu to stop loading nvidia_new on bootup instead of the nvidia I built myself?!

[21:40:53]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, still I'm running a gentoo install with mythtv. I need to either get channel change ability or full on firewire from the DCT-3416 to the mythbox

[21:41:02]

psymin:

Lord_Deathscythe, are you seeing any output in /var/log/messages when you connect the device?

[21:41:17]

Chicago:

directhex: In my v2.6.21-gentoo-r4 kernel config, in Device Drivers -> IEEE 1394 (FireWire) support: <*> IEEE 1394 (FireWire) support <*> OHCI-1394 support <*> OHCI-1394 Video support <*> OHCI-DV I/O support (deprecated) and <*> Raw IEEE1394 I/O support.

[21:41:37]

Chicago:

directhex: Is this unnecessary? What do you set in your kernel config?

[21:42:20]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: I'm glad you're on Gentoo. You can try the mythtv_overlay.

[21:42:24]

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[21:42:33]

** psymin eyes mythtv_overlay. **

[21:42:43]

psymin:

Didn't know that existed, thanks Chicago.

[21:42:57]

Lord_Deathscythe:

mythtv_overlay have more then whats in portage?

[21:43:05]

Chicago:

psymin: I just found it last night. The server to download the plugins and themes is SLLLOOOOOWWW.

[21:43:35]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: Yeah, the mythtv_overlay pulls in a much newer version... (close to the SVN trunk)...

[21:43:44]

directhex:

Chicago, everything's modular. makes life easier

[21:44:00]

Lord_Deathscythe:

are there any howtos showing info for the 3416?

[21:44:21]

** psymin notes that a 2ghz dual core with 2gb of ram is plenty for h264. **

[21:44:54]

Chicago:

directhex: Okay. So then if I put everything modules, should I only explicitly set <M> IEEE 1394 (FireWire) support?

[21:45:18]

imperfect-:

Anyone at all know what I have to do get this fscking module config right?

[21:45:22]

imperfect-:

It's driving me piss crazyu

[21:45:42]

Tanthrix:

psymin: Depends on the resolution, and the level of compression used.

[21:46:07]

imperfect-:

I built the damn nvidia driver from the site, it's installed and the fscking thing keeps loading nvidia_new which comes in the modules package... wtf do I need to do to get it to load the right damn module

[21:46:21]

Tanthrix:

imperfect-: Ask in #ubuntu?

[21:46:30]

imperfect-:

Man it's infuriating

[21:46:35]

imperfect-:

I'll try

[21:46:50]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: 3416? Do you mean 1394?

[21:47:04]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I mean the modle number of the DVR from COmcast I have

[21:47:20]

Lord_Deathscythe:

it's a DCT-3416

[21:48:19]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: There's a wiki about testing for a connection, lemme see if I can find it quickly.

[21:49:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, and if there is any better option or easier I'll take it

[21:49:49]

Lord_Deathscythe:

cause the box actually has an IRBlaster port, so I'm taking that means a digital data cable from one to the other would work

[21:50:05]

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[21:51:34]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: You might want to emerge libraw1394 libiec61883 libavc1394...

[21:51:49]

Lord_Deathscythe:

that I already did

[21:52:07]

Lord_Deathscythe:

first thing I did when I get the firewire installed

[21:52:15]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: You might want to keyword ~x86 those packages... and keyword ~x86 the mythtv packages.

[21:52:27]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I'm running ~amd64 right now

[21:52:41]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: Disregard that.

[21:53:40]

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[21:53:41]

Chicago:

Lord_Deathscythe: Did you enable the ieee1394 USE flag before emerging mythtv?

[21:54:08]

Lord_Deathscythe:

actually had to reemerge it cause originally I didn't, but that was because I didn't have that in the box att he time. already did the reemerge

[21:55:49]

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[21:56:16]

fryfrog:

man, I just did a qam256 channel scan and found *ONE* valid channel :/

[21:56:18]

fryfrog:

wtf is going on

[21:56:27]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ick

[21:56:34]

Tanthrix:

fryfrog: Why did you expect more?

[21:56:59]

fryfrog:

Cause 6 months ago, I got at *least* all the FTA HD channels and like 20–30 or more of the "crap" digital channels

[21:57:52]

Tanthrix:

fryfrog: Via QAM or from firewire?

[21:58:40]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hmmm

[21:58:55]

fryfrog:

QAM

[21:59:10]

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[21:59:16]

Tanthrix:

Oh, weird.

[21:59:20]

fryfrog:

firewire still works like it did, i just thought i'd have another go at QAM on my air2pc cards that have been doing nothing since comcast's last revamp

[21:59:37]

Tanthrix:

Have you tried scanning some other frequencies?

[21:59:43]

fryfrog:

like what?

[21:59:48]

fryfrog:

I set it to "Cable" when I do it

[21:59:53]

fryfrog:

should i try HRC or IRC?

[22:00:02]

minthome:

is there any reason why my mce remote wouldn't work with mythVideo? it works fine for watching livetv, recordings, mythmusic, but it just doesn't do anything at all with mythvideo?

[22:00:06]

Tanthrix:

I think HRC is included in cable, but I had to use HRC

[22:00:13]

fryfrog:

worth a try :)

[22:00:21]

fryfrog:

the *one* channel i got was stupid "Superstation" :p

[22:00:39]

Tanthrix:

minthome: Mythvideo uses mplayer / xine / whatever you set for playback, so you have to setup lirc for whatever helper applications that you're using

[22:01:06]

minthome:

Oh

[22:01:16]

GreyFoxx:

minthome: You can configure mythvideo to use the internal player

[22:01:41]

minthome:

GreyFoxx, does the internal player have all the codecs?

[22:01:56]

hads:

Internal is cool

[22:01:59]

Tanthrix:

fryfrog: Hehe, that's annoying. I've got the same here that you used to have, the FTA HD and all the crap digital channels

[22:01:59]

GreyFoxx:

it plays anything ffmpeg/libavodec supports

[22:02:04]

Tanthrix:

With the discovery channel thrown in for fun.

[22:02:13]

Lord_Deathscythe:

does anyone have any recommandations to get firewire working?

[22:02:28]

bill2or3:

is there actually any fta HD?

[22:02:35]

fryfrog:

sure

[22:02:35]

bill2or3:

(for north america..)

[22:02:39]

fryfrog:

nbc, abc, cbs, etc

[22:02:46]

minthome:

Cool, thanks GreyFoxx Tanthrix

[22:02:48]

GreyFoxx:

bill2or3: lots in the bigger cities

[22:02:49]

fryfrog:

all the "major" networks have their HD channels OTA for free

[22:02:52]

** minthome goes to give it a shot **

[22:02:54]

bill2or3:

ahh, you mean atsc, not satellite.

[22:02:55]

fryfrog:

Lord_Deathscythe: what is going *wrong*?

[22:03:05]

fryfrog:

well, i was talking about cable

[22:03:07]

** bill2or3 was thinking dvb-s **

[22:03:12]

Lord_Deathscythe:

well, I'm trying to get the firewire to first register something is there

[22:03:15]

Tanthrix:

Lord_Deathscythe: Do you have firewire_tester compiled?

[22:03:20]

fryfrog:

which re-sends all the FTA stuff for freezor

[22:03:25]

GreyFoxx:

bill2or3: I think there is 1 or 2, but you need a bigger than average dish to get at them

[22:03:29]

Lord_Deathscythe:

firewire_tester doesn't seem to pick up anything, and fails both p2p and bcast

[22:03:30]

fryfrog:

Lord_Deathscythe: you need the right modules loaded first of all

[22:03:39]

fryfrog:

what does "plugreport" say (or sudo plugreport)

[22:03:51]

Tanthrix:

Lord_Deathscythe: Does it fail instantly, or slowly?

[22:04:04]

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[22:04:05]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Host Adapter 0 Node 1

[22:04:36]

Lord_Deathscythe:

firewire_tester fails slow on p2p

[22:04:48]

fryfrog:

is the module "raw1394" loaded?

[22:05:10]

fryfrog:

or dv1394, ieee1394 or ohci1394?

[22:05:12]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I have all firewire mods compiled in kernel

[22:05:27]

fryfrog:

okay, what does dmesg say when you plug/unplug the cable box?

[22:05:32]

fryfrog:

and what *type* of cable box is it?

[22:05:42]

fryfrog:

and what does "sudo plugreport" say?

[22:05:45]

fryfrog:

(pastebin it)

[22:07:21]

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[22:08:31]

fryfrog:

HRC didn't find anything, trying IRC now :/

[22:09:11]

minthome:

Ah, internal good

[22:09:30]

hads:

:)

[22:11:41]

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[22:11:45]

Lord_Deathscythe:

fryfrog, this is what I'm finding in the dmesg for when the system pics up the ieee1394 device

[22:11:46]

Lord_Deathscythe:

http://pastebin.com/m79c6f50d

[22:12:03]

fryfrog:

what sort of firewire box you have?

[22:12:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

the box I'm plugging into is a Motorola DCT-3416 from Comcast

[22:12:39]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I've tried google, but I can't seem to find anything on making it work

[22:12:43]

fryfrog:

is that an HD tuner?

[22:12:51]

fryfrog:

ie, not an HD DVR?

[22:13:01]

Lord_Deathscythe:

it's a DVR

[22:13:07]

fryfrog:

the 3416 doesn't ring a bell, i have a 6412 and i've heard of the 62xx

[22:13:17]

fryfrog:

is the 3416 pretty new?

[22:13:35]

Lord_Deathscythe:

apparently so if it's got nothing. and I was so hoping to at least get channel changing

[22:14:01]

fryfrog:

for channel changing, it might be as simple as adding the model/company #'s into the source

[22:14:26]

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[22:15:04]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hmmm

[22:15:11]

Lord_Deathscythe:

it's a comcast box, so who knows

[22:15:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I was just going to go straight 1394 for everything and hope

[22:16:37]

fryfrog:

the output of plugreport that i keep asking for should show model/etc number

[22:17:21]

fryfrog:

I had problems with Firewire

[22:17:21]

fryfrog:

> (Motorola DCT-3416) and I'm waiting for my cable company to drop a DCT-6200

[22:17:25]

fryfrog:

> off for testing.

[22:17:27]

fryfrog:

bah

[22:17:51]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hmmmm

[22:18:22]

Lord_Deathscythe:

if there is something more in plugreport with that info it's not there

[22:18:33]

Lord_Deathscythe:

all I get are setting info, no model/etc number

[22:19:26]

Lord_Deathscythe:

http://pastebin.com/m11874c14 for plugreport

[22:19:40]

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[22:19:47]

fryfrog:

damn, i forget what shows the model then :/

[22:19:48]

fryfrog:

oh

[22:19:51]

fryfrog:

try uhhh

[22:20:17]

fryfrog:

6200ch -v -p 0 -n 1 844

[22:20:23]

fryfrog:

it should show an error, i bet?

[22:20:41]

fryfrog:

well, did you compile 6200ch actually?

[22:21:21]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I didn't see it in my contrib directory when I ran it on the gentoo install

[22:21:41]

fryfrog:

the DCT 3412 is in 6200ch, i bet the 3416 would work too

[22:21:50]

fryfrog:

grab the svn head and use the 6200ch and firewire_tester from that

[22:21:59]

fryfrog:

(you don't need to use portage, just get those two files)

[22:22:03]

fryfrog:

and compile them

[22:22:06]

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[22:22:16]

fryfrog:

then, run that 6200ch command and it'll say something about unknown jazz

[22:22:31]

fryfrog:

just throw that into 6200ch.c nicely and it should work

[22:22:35]

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[22:22:50]

fryfrog:

if that works, you *probably* can throw it into the mythtv source, i forget where it goes though

[22:23:09]

pm:

Any nuvexport experts in here?

[22:23:57]

fryfrog:

just ask your question, chances are fairly decent you don't need an "expert" :)

[22:24:16]

pm:

I want to run nuvexport as a user job, but I cannot find which options are needed

[22:24:31]

pm:

such as --infile

[22:24:48]

pm:

really hard to find

[22:24:59]

fryfrog:

ah

[22:25:06]

fryfrog:

nothing on the wiki?

[22:25:13]

pm:

nope

[22:25:17]

fryfrog:

i think there are variables to feed it to, but i've not messed with that myself

[22:25:26]

jams:

pretty sure it has a man page

[22:25:55]

pm:

just a script, but that is not working

[22:26:04]

pm:

no man page either

[22:26:40]

fryfrog:

damn, IRC found 2 channels, both which i had :/

[22:27:10]

fryfrog:

maybe they don't use QAM256 anymore

[22:29:25]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, got 6200ch compiled

[22:29:40]

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[22:30:15]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ran the command line you gave me fryfrog, it said no device found

[22:30:34]

fryfrog:

is it still on port 0, node 1?

[22:30:43]

fryfrog:

plugreport will show ya

[22:31:14]

** jams wonders if -help was tried **

[22:31:27]

fryfrog:

sudo ./6200ch -p 0 -n 0 -v 844

[22:31:32]

fryfrog:

node 0: vendor_id = 0x0000152f model_id = 0x000064cb

[22:31:37]

fryfrog:

has that, among other things for me

[22:31:44]

jams:

hey fryfrog do you have a working firewire setup?

[22:31:54]

fryfrog:

about 80% of the time :)

[22:31:59]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hmmm

[22:32:02]

fryfrog:

my firewire HD DVR STBs are a bit flakey

[22:32:03]

jams:

got a spare test machine?

[22:32:10]

fryfrog:

no, why?

[22:32:20]

fryfrog:

i've got my be *down* at the moment though

[22:32:31]

jams:

nevermind..i was going to ask for your help in testing

[22:32:36]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I get some numbers on node 1 vendor and model id

[22:32:37]

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[22:32:41]

fryfrog:

shoot, if its not to terrible i can help

[22:32:46]

fryfrog:

okay, paste that line

[22:32:48]

jams:

but it would require a spare machine to build a whole noew mbe

[22:32:50]

fryfrog:

i'll make a diff for you

[22:32:52]

fryfrog:

oh

[22:32:55]

fryfrog:

haha

[22:32:57]

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[22:33:14]

jams:

i'm not going to ask you to destroy you working mbe just to this

[22:33:25]

fryfrog:

yeah, that'd be a bit to far

[22:33:29]

fryfrog:

i'm curious what you wanted to test though

[22:33:33]

Lord_Deathscythe:

http://pastebin.com/m7405b2bb

[22:34:05]

fryfrog:

and it is a 3416, you are sure right?

[22:34:05]

Lord_Deathscythe:

brb, want carcenogens

[22:34:06]

Lord_Deathscythe:

yes

[22:34:06]

Lord_Deathscythe:

says it right on the box

[22:34:15]

fryfrog:

kk

[22:34:58]

jams:

fryfrog- i was going to have you test if I included all the right stuff for a working capture from firewire with my pet project

[22:35:01]

jams:

mythvantage.com

[22:35:48]

jams:

i will find some other person. I have a firewire STB box but timewarner hs the ports disabled

[22:36:46]

fryfrog:

http://pastebin.com/mbb7c44d

[22:36:51]

fryfrog:

use that to modify your 6200ch.c

[22:36:54]

fryfrog:

then re-compile

[22:36:56]

keith4_:

are the zap2it labs forums down for good?

[22:37:20]

fryfrog:

forums? dunno but listings are going away

[22:37:29]

fryfrog:

they prolly just got a lot of traffic on the forums and crashed

[22:37:48]

fryfrog:

Lord_Deathscythe: let me know if that works

[22:38:08]

keith4_:

can I swap two channels as far as mythbackend sees?

[22:38:55]

keith4_:

because my cable company moved a channel

[22:38:59]

keith4_:

and now i'm recording static

[22:39:19]

keith4_:

but if i were able to swap channels 50 and 51, for example, then it would probably be fine

[22:40:16]

fryfrog:

are you using zap2it?

[22:40:18]

fryfrog:

have they updated?

[22:40:21]

keith4_:

yes

[22:40:21]

keith4_:

no

[22:40:26]

fryfrog:

and i spose in theory, you could massage the db a bit?

[22:40:34]

keith4_:

that's my question

[22:40:51]

keith4_:

either massage the zap2it data, or swap two channels at a low level

[22:41:12]

Lord_Deathscythe:

Fryfrog, here's what I get from 6200ch now with that mod. http://pastebin.com/m421a2952

[22:41:33]

keith4_:

like, if channels A and B are at certain frequencies, i could swap the numbers

[22:41:41]

fryfrog:

your device is on node 1, isn't it?

[22:41:52]

fryfrog:

6200ch -p 0 -n 1 -v 844

[22:41:56]

fryfrog:

is what you should use, afaik

[22:42:06]

fryfrog:

did it change the channel?

[22:42:25]

fryfrog:

you'd need to replace the "844" with a valid channel on your STB

[22:42:45]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, I'll try 057, scifi channel

[22:43:44]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, http://pastebin.com/m7b9b7904, it did change the channel to 057 when I ran 6200ch with 057 in 844's place

[22:44:53]

fryfrog:

great, thats working then!

[22:45:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

yes, so if I just want channel changing all I have to do is set it up with the channel changer and a composite input

[22:45:37]

fryfrog:

yeah, that'll work for you

[22:45:40]

Lord_Deathscythe:

any thoughts on going straight Firewire for video and audio as well?

[22:45:41]

fryfrog:

but you *should* be able to do firewire

[22:45:48]

fryfrog:

just leave the firewire cable hooked up

[22:45:53]

fryfrog:

and setup a channel change script

[22:46:01]

fryfrog:

tell mythtv-setup its a 6200 box

[22:46:05]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok

[22:46:25]

Lord_Deathscythe:

the channel change script in the myth wiki work ok for 1 stb?

[22:46:26]

fryfrog:

check the wiki for my sure-change.sh script if your firewire is not very reliable

[22:46:33]

fryfrog:

sure, or two

[22:46:58]

fryfrog:

if your firewirebox works well, just stick "6200ch -p 0 -n 1" into the box

[22:47:07]

fryfrog:

if it doesn't, you can try my script on the wiki

[22:48:00]

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[22:49:01]

keith4_:

fryfog: any ideas?

[22:49:06]

Lord_Deathscythe:

we'll see if it does

[22:49:15]

fryfrog:

keith4_: modify the db

[22:50:06]

fryfrog:

or use mythweb and just swap the names and the xmltvid

[22:50:19]

keith4_:

i like the 2nd option

[22:50:36]

fryfrog:

well, that is modifying the db

[22:50:41]

fryfrog:

just with a pretty gui :)

[22:51:01]

keith4_:

i still don't know how to do it, though :-)

[22:52:11]

fryfrog:

you have mythweb?

[22:53:06]

keith4_:

yessir

[22:53:10]

keith4_:

and phpmyadmin

[22:53:39]

fryfrog:

mythweb, settings, channel something or other

[22:53:55]

fryfrog:

scroll down to the two channels in question and start swapping things like XMLTVID and the 2 name fields

[22:54:00]

fryfrog:

(leaving the freq and such alone)

[22:54:05]

fryfrog:

then do a mythfilldatabase

[22:54:19]

keith4_:

channel info?

[22:54:35]

fryfrog:

sure

[22:54:53]

keith4_:

ok

[22:55:05]

keith4_:

what else should be swapped other than xmltvid?

[22:55:14]

fryfrog:

the short/long name

[22:55:18]

fryfrog:

umm, thats prolly it

[22:55:30]

fryfrog:

xmltvid takes care of the listings that it pulls

[22:55:57]

keith4_:

sweet

[22:56:55]

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[22:57:00]

Lord_Deathscythe:

ok, seems the system does not want to output video/audio through firewire at the moment

[22:57:57]

Lord_Deathscythe:

so I'll switch to commponent input and see what happens

[22:58:58]

fryfrog:

you mean svideo/composite?

[22:59:04]

Lord_Deathscythe:

yes

[22:59:07]

fryfrog:

you can't feed component into any pc i know of

[22:59:11]

fryfrog:

svideo is best, fyi

[22:59:16]

Lord_Deathscythe:

true

[22:59:20]

Lord_Deathscythe:

SVideo is best

[22:59:47]

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[23:01:38]

Lord_Deathscythe:

but I don't have an S-Video cable and I do have a composite cable

[23:02:29]

fryfrog:

ah

[23:03:19]

Lord_Deathscythe:

I was hoping to just have to use firewire, but I suppose that will come in time

[23:04:26]

fryfrog:

it might be as simple as getting it into firewiredevices.cpp

[23:04:33]

keith4_:

fryfrog: that didn't seem to work

[23:04:36]

fryfrog:

but i didn't *get* the format of the file :/

[23:04:37]

Lord_Deathscythe:

maybe

[23:04:42]

Lord_Deathscythe:

hmmm

[23:04:43]

fryfrog:

keith4_: did you do a mythfilldatabase afterwards?

[23:04:54]

fryfrog:

oh, you'd need to do a --refresh-all i think

[23:05:46]

keith4_:

oh

[23:05:52]

keith4_:

let me try --refresh-all

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[23:13:02]

Lord_Deathscythe:

yea, looks like I need to setup sure_change

[23:16:18]

Lord_Deathscythe:

crap

[23:16:20]

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[23:16:23]

Lord_Deathscythe:

where is test-mpeg2?

[23:20:56]

keith4_:

fryfrog: yay!

[23:21:03]

Lord_Deathscythe:

what would be the command to just run 6200ch with the appropriate variable for the channel?

[23:23:14]

Lord_Deathscythe:

never mind, got it :)

[23:23:22]

Lord_Deathscythe:

HOOAAH!

[23:26:12]

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[23:27:00]

keith4_:

fryfrog: if you're ever in eastern PA, stop in, I'll buy you a beer

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[23:31:50]

hads:

I just got a PVR150 MCE from my supplier but they accidentially sent the retail pack with the remote and all.

[23:32:45]

keith4_:

cool

[23:35:26]

hads:

Yeah, now I have 5 remotes sitting around doing nothing.

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[23:43:45]

jsn:

i have a tricky problem which I am sure someone has solved, i have sky plugged in via av cable and that appears as channel 31, as soon as i added all the other channels and set the external channel changer it all worked perfectly until i rebooted and found that i can no-longer get a picture because when you select 31 i imagine it calls external channel changer script, any ideas?

[23:45:12]

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[23:46:44]

weaselhawk:

:)

[23:48:07]

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[23:48:26]

weaselhawk:

i have been trying to get a remote control working in mythtv for two years i dont understand how mythtv tv will ever make it if only the top 1% of programers that can understand 28 pages of remote control set up to use it. getting the remote controls working should be the # one priority it sucks to watch tv without a remote control

[23:48:54]

weaselhawk:

i know 15 people that have gave up on mythtv i have been fighting the remote control for 2 years

[23:49:04]

hads:

weaselhawk: It's pretty straight forward.

[23:49:15]

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[23:49:30]

weaselhawk:

if you have the same software and remote and box as the install instructions

[23:49:31]

weaselhawk:

yes

[23:49:49]

weaselhawk:

if you dont and you dont know how to progam and understand every log file progam etc

[23:49:50]

weaselhawk:

nope

[23:49:55]

weaselhawk:

in reality

[23:50:06]

weaselhawk:

1 out of like 20,000 people get the remote working

[23:50:09]

weaselhawk:

then give up

[23:50:15]

weaselhawk:

and delete the system

[23:50:20]

weaselhawk:

then dont tell

[23:50:20]

hads:

Sure, if you say so.

[23:50:22]

weaselhawk:

myth tv

[23:50:33]

weaselhawk:

cause you cant find out where on the web page

[23:50:47]

weaselhawk:

i am serious i have been working with indiana university

[23:50:51]

weaselhawk:

ucs

[23:51:00]

weaselhawk:

there maybe one guy has it working

[23:51:04]

weaselhawk:

but i think it is a lye

[23:51:14]

weaselhawk:

how much reseach you do you do

[23:51:23]

weaselhawk:

to find out how many people get the remotes working

[23:51:35]

weaselhawk:

i bet i have reinstalled 400 + times

[23:51:46]

weaselhawk:

and i have a computer programming deg

[23:51:55]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: I had my blackberry working as a remote... I make a php page that sent messages to the backend server.

[23:51:59]

weaselhawk:

yes

[23:52:03]

weaselhawk:

but you knwo what your doing

[23:52:17]

weaselhawk:

the 20.000 people out there that want to give mythtv power

[23:52:18]

weaselhawk:

dont

[23:52:23]

weaselhawk:

then they give up

[23:52:27]

weaselhawk:

i just dont give up

[23:52:43]

weaselhawk:

i think i could make a wierd remote control

[23:52:57]

weaselhawk:

lirc sucks and you know it

[23:53:00]

Chicago:

Support for various hardware is hard to predict... but if people report a working configuration on specific hardware... just use the hardware that is reported to work.

[23:53:06]

Chicago:

lirc is excellent

[23:53:14]

weaselhawk:

and myth will not make it if joe blow redneck cant get it working

[23:53:21]

weaselhawk:

he will go out and buy a tivo

[23:53:25]

weaselhawk:

i dont want that

[23:53:30]

weaselhawk:

i want open source

[23:53:32]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: Joe blow redneck doesn't need to get his lirc working.

[23:53:40]

weaselhawk:

sure they do

[23:53:47]

weaselhawk:

i know at least 2 farmmers

[23:53:48]

weaselhawk:

trying

[23:53:58]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: Joe blow redneck can pay a kid to set it up.

[23:54:01]

weaselhawk:

one my boss has been trying for 2 years

[23:54:11]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: Where in Indiana are you working?

[23:54:18]

weaselhawk:

bloomington

[23:54:23]

weaselhawk:

you dont get what i am saying

[23:54:29]

hads:

You like exaggerating don't you?

[23:54:32]

weaselhawk:

the most important thing is the remote

[23:54:37]

Chicago:

Ah... well, I spent 4 years in Terre Haute... I know what farmers are like.

[23:54:39]

weaselhawk:

there should be no install

[23:54:43]

weaselhawk:

it should just work

[23:54:54]

weaselhawk:

terre huate is what an hour

[23:55:02]

hads:

weaselhawk: svn.mythtv.org – upload your patches there.

[23:55:51]

weaselhawk:

i am not realy exafferating

[23:56:02]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: The whole idea of lirc... is that you have a device provider... like for example your audigy card or your hauppauge card. And then you have a buttons provider, which is your configuration file.

[23:56:06]

weaselhawk:

i have like 20 people that have tried and i dont know anyone that has got it working

[23:56:18]

Chicago:

You simply map which keycodes from the remote equal which buttons to the lirc server.

[23:56:23]

weaselhawk:

i just dont have a job so i can spend 2 or three days a week working on it

[23:56:34]

weaselhawk:

yes then it says that was not installed

[23:56:46]

weaselhawk:

or it changes the ownership of mythbackend

[23:56:47]

weaselhawk:

or it

[23:56:49]

weaselhawk:

or it

[23:56:50]

weaselhawk:

or it

[23:56:52]

weaselhawk:

and on

[23:56:59]

hads:

What are you here for?

[23:57:18]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: Well, I use the realtime-lsm module for my backend, and everything in /usr/bin/myth* is chmodded g+s and owned by the realtime system group.

[23:57:20]

weaselhawk:

i want mythtv to work i could get like 100 people on it here

[23:57:33]

weaselhawk:

but i cant cause i cant get a remote working

[23:57:39]

weaselhawk:

i am not a idiot at computers

[23:57:45]

hads:

Bah goodbye.

[23:57:48]

Chicago:

lol

[23:58:04]

weaselhawk:

can money buy it

[23:58:22]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: I'll make you one for money.

[23:58:29]

weaselhawk:

that is why linux is falling step buy step the attitude who cares about the user

[23:58:36]

weaselhawk:

i can read 200 lines of code

[23:58:46]

Chicago:

But the real problem of selling them is that they're not fit for sale if you have a box with lots of fans making noise.

[23:58:48]

weaselhawk:

who cares about the 19,999 other people

[23:59:01]

weaselhawk:

i dont want to sell

[23:59:04]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: Most of the people don't care about the trolls because we have TFM.

[23:59:18]

weaselhawk:

i just dont think you understand how much how many people put into makeing it work

[23:59:22]

weaselhawk:

and dont get anywhere

[23:59:26]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: So what.

[23:59:45]

weaselhawk:

so what about freedom and open source

[23:59:47]

weaselhawk:

that is what

[23:59:50]

Chicago:

weaselhawk: They're on the wrong part of the learning linux lesson if this is where they start and fail.

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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