| Wednesday, June 20th, 2007, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:12] | mattwj2005: | :) |
| [00:00:30] | mattwj2005: | well that is a good reason to get your USB going...so you can buy one |
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| [00:08:30] | xris: | squish102: try optimize_mythdb.pl ? |
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| [00:14:28] | xDVST8x: | I have a mythtv backend server & front end for sale – the server is a dual(2 physical cpus) opteron 2.0Ghz with 1 Gig of ram, 1x dvd writer, 1x 200gig sata OS drive, 10x 750Gig sata storage drives in a raid 6 array (6TB total storage). on a promise ex16300 raid controller(16 ports) the powersupply is 750watt. every drive has its own set of fans (3 per drive) with filters. the front end is an AMD 3800+ 1gig ram 1.0TB sata raid array. built o |
| [00:14:34] | squish102: | thanks xris, i had to do a repair table program; |
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| [00:14:53] | squish102: | it found a duplicate key and removed it |
| [00:15:14] | xDVST8x: | obtw — all is NEW |
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| [00:26:11] | mattwj2005: | well guys I am off to bed |
| [00:26:15] | mattwj2005: | good night all :) |
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| [00:45:06] | thufir007: | why isn't there an open source sling box type device? |
| [00:46:18] | GreyFoxx: | Because you haven't written one ? |
| [00:46:30] | hads: | Why don't I own an island? |
| [00:48:48] | simcop2387-tv: | hads, because of me thats why |
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| [00:50:11] | simcop2387-tv: | sweet my patch seems to have worked so far, i'll have to go make a good patch to submit a ticket for |
| [00:51:08] | achew22: | simcop2387, what does your patch do/ |
| [00:52:47] | simcop2387-tv: | achew22, well my tv doesn't advertise itself as a subunit type of Panel like mythtv wants a firewire set top box to be, but it does advertise itself as a Video Monitor subunit type so i added a case for that in the firewire code so that it will accept it |
| [00:53:09] | achew22: | simcop2387, very nice! and it works? |
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| [00:53:52] | simcop2387-tv: | achew22, not just yet but its getting there, it works fine with test-mpeg2 so i know its possible :) |
| [00:54:37] | simcop2387-tv: | channel tuning is going to be the hardest part since i don't know what i'll need to do there, but if i can get it working even to just record one channel its a step further |
| [00:54:54] | simcop2387-tv: | whoops forgot to set /bin/true as the external tuner command |
| [00:56:32] | simcop2387-tv: | ok backend starts up fine |
| [00:56:45] | simcop2387-tv: | can i get video? lets find oout |
| [00:58:05] | simcop2387-tv: | hmm it doesn't bomb out like it used to, but it says no signal... |
| [01:00:00] | achew22: | hrm... |
| [01:00:27] | achew22: | as I understand the FCC law requires two way firewire ports uppon request. Does that means firewire can change the channel? |
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| [01:01:46] | fxfitz: | Right now my PVR-150 remote is working perfectly with MythTv. It works perfectly with livetv, recordings, and DVDs. However, it doesn't seem to work with MythVideo, does anyone know why?? |
| [01:02:35] | simcop2387-tv: | achew22, thats on cable company provided boxes, and yes i believe most of them can, its just i'm not using one :) the tv has an ATSC/QAM tuner that has a firewire out, and i can capture video and i bet it can change i just don't know how yet |
| [01:03:10] | simcop2387-tv: | "MythEvent: SIGNAL 12" anyone know what that means on the backend? i keep getting that from the backend when trying to watch |
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| [01:04:57] | simcop2387-tv: | well now to take a break, think and watch some anime |
| [01:08:30] | simcop2387-tv: | hell yes! mythzoneminder is exactly what i wanted! neato! |
| [01:10:08] | pza: | Anyone know why I might be getting "irrecord: gap not found, can't continue" with my Leadtek remote control when running irrecord -H dev/input -d /dev/input/event4 /etc/lircd.conf ? |
| [01:10:11] | fxfitz: | Hmm. Nobody knows?? |
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| [01:10:59] | simcop2387-tv: | fxfitz, what are you using to play the videos? the internal player or mplayer? |
| [01:11:25] | fxfitz: | simcop2387, The default settings on my MythVideo associate avi with the default player |
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| [01:11:44] | fxfitz: | simcop2387, However I think it is mplayer. |
| [01:12:46] | simcop2387-tv: | fxfitz, then you'll need to make a lircrc file for mplayer, there's a number of tutorials on the web about it, i'll look in a few minutes if you can't find one |
| [01:13:12] | fxfitz: | simcop2387, But, there are mplayer entries in my lircrc that I got for MythTV |
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| [01:13:35] | simcop2387-tv: | is it located in ~/.mythtv/lircrc or ~/.lircrc? |
| [01:13:53] | fxfitz: | ~/.mythtv/lircrc |
| [01:14:19] | simcop2387-tv: | thats why, make a symlink to ~/.lircrc so that mplayer can find it, ln -s ~/.mythtv/lircrc ~/.lircrc |
| [01:14:32] | fxfitz: | Awesome, I'll give it a shot |
| [01:16:22] | fxfitz: | simcop2387, It works! Thank you so much! |
| [01:16:44] | simcop2387-tv: | cool :) |
| [01:16:45] | simcop2387-tv: | glad to help |
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| [01:23:25] | psm321: | hi |
| [01:23:42] | niter3: | how can I keep mythwelcom from automatically loading mythfrontend??? |
| [01:24:13] | psm321: | any ideas what could cause mythtv to get stuck "Opening ALSA audio device 'default'"? (at least for 20 seconds before it times out) |
| [01:24:47] | psm321: | occasionally, it will start doing that after playing one show, and i will need to restart mythfrontend to watch anything else |
| [01:25:27] | psm321: | once the problem has started in a particular "boot session", it stays until reboot of the system (but i can kill mythfrontend and start it again to play one mroe file) |
| [01:26:10] | psm321: | except now it appears to be getting stuck before playing any files (i'm sure a reboot will fix it, but i want to come up with a more permanent solution) |
| [01:27:07] | psm321: | another symptom that might give some insight: while other sounds play fine (from gaim for example) while playing the first file in mythtv, after that they do not, and are all queued up until i kill mythfrontend (when they all go off) |
| [01:27:20] | psm321: | which would make my guess that it's not closing something properly |
| [01:27:43] | psm321: | (sorry for the verbosity, i wanted to provide all the details i had) |
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| [01:30:39] | psm321: | niter3: i dont use it myself but http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mythwelcome says that the "Automatically Start Mythfrontend" setting controls that |
| [01:30:57] | psm321: | and you can get to settings by pressing F11 in mythwelcome |
| [01:31:55] | niter3: | psm321: Do you by any chance know how I can have the permissions change for /proc/acpi/alarm upon booting so mythtv can write to them? |
| [01:37:23] | psm321: | definitely dont take this as an authoritative answer (because i'm not sure if you should be doing that), but i would guess that you could do it in your distro's bootscripts |
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| [01:40:59] | my2keh: | anyone see that Zap2it is discontinueing their service? |
| [01:41:18] | psm321: | niter3: from what i can tell from the wiki page it appears should be doing it |
| [01:42:04] | GreyFoxx: | my2keh: Yeah, they informed us earlier before it went up there |
| [01:42:05] | psm321: | my2keh: ouch |
| [01:43:43] | my2keh: | Good thing I'm using EIT! :) |
| [01:44:29] | my2keh: | Any of you guys have problems with records that have certain spots that become "slow" then normal again? |
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| [01:48:49] | GreyFoxx: | Well, it's hit the -users list...now we should see lots of panic, doom saying, arguments and conspiracy theories |
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| [01:49:58] | psm321: | tivo paid them off :) |
| [01:50:49] | GreyFoxx: | Alternatives will come out. Just don't know what yet. Might even talk them, (or someone else) into doing it for a monthly/yearly fee |
| [01:51:26] | GreyFoxx: | Ever since they started dataadirect I've said I would pay for it. It has value to me so it's worth acouple bucks |
| [01:52:26] | Beirdo: | j-rod, you bum :) Your team got a no-hitter?! ;) |
| [01:52:57] | Zider: | a rod in your bum? |
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| [01:53:22] | Beirdo: | No, I'm not a Yankee Fan... A-Rod can stay away |
| [01:53:42] | Zider: | I didn't get that one.. |
| [01:53:58] | Beirdo: | Alex Rodriguez (of the Yankees) is known as A-Rod |
| [01:54:03] | Beirdo: | anyways... |
| [01:54:05] | Zider: | oh |
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| [01:58:47] | Beirdo: | so I guess tomorrow I code the ticket detail grabbing code |
| [01:58:50] | Beirdo: | :) |
| [01:58:59] | Zider: | yay |
| [01:59:07] | Zider: | get me a ticket will ya |
| [01:59:15] | Zider: | with backstage pass |
| [01:59:26] | Beirdo: | got the changeset details code done today, will put some more finishing touches on it though |
| [01:59:43] | Beirdo: | like telling the user when the changeset they requested is invalid... right now it just logs it |
| [02:00:04] | Zider: | I have no idea what you just said |
| [02:00:14] | Beirdo: | changesets in trac :) |
| [02:00:19] | Zider: | (but here's a bunny with a pancake on the head) |
| [02:00:23] | Zider: | :P |
| [02:00:26] | Beirdo: | (which actually are SVN changesets) |
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| [02:03:58] | wastrel: | hi |
| [02:04:05] | wastrel: | i have mythtv and sound |
| [02:04:46] | mike3_: | in mythwelcome you're suppose to be able to tell mythwelcome to not start mythfrontend when it first loads. Well when I push the Info button it shows me where I can set it, but it will not let me navigate around.. How can i do this? |
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| [02:15:08] | psm321: | mike3_: arrow keys don't work? |
| [02:15:13] | psm321: | specifically, up arrow |
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| [02:19:13] | RyeBrye: | Any more info on the zap2it kerfuffle? |
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| [02:20:24] | pza: | I'm 90% of the way to getting my remote working. irw shows the buttons I press perfectly, however mythfrontend isn't responding |
| [02:21:02] | pza: | looking at /var/log/messages, mythfrontend is opening /dev/lircd when starting up, then closing it almost straight away. ANy ideas anyone? |
| [02:21:28] | wastrel: | hi what kerfuffle? |
| [02:21:35] | wastrel: | yay |
| [02:21:43] | wastrel: | i am just starting on my remote |
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| [02:24:43] | psm321: | pza: i think i needed a lircrc of some sort, let me check |
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| [02:25:20] | RyeBrye: | wastrel – check out: http://labs.zap2it.com/ and read the announcement on the main page |
| [02:25:32] | pza: | I just ran irxevent and it works with the lircrc.example. I thought I had native lirc so I didn't need irxevent |
| [02:25:42] | RyeBrye: | DOH! |
| [02:25:54] | ** RyeBrye just echoed some crap > /etc/modprobe.conf instead of >> ** | |
| [02:26:00] | ** RyeBrye slaps face ** | |
| [02:26:05] | wastrel: | doh |
| [02:26:35] | Zider: | RyeBrye: D'OH! |
| [02:26:40] | wastrel: | double doh |
| [02:26:42] | psm321: | pza: i have a ~/.mythtv/lircrc that it won't work without |
| [02:26:50] | wastrel: | so i guess the story is "figure out xmltv" ? |
| [02:26:52] | RyeBrye: | Zider – Yeah... there's no UNECHO << UNDO << :) |
| [02:27:03] | Zider: | RyeBrye: ctrl-z |
| [02:27:04] | Zider: | ;) |
| [02:27:05] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, that's the game again... |
| [02:27:10] | wastrel: | we need a p2p tv listing thing that would be cool |
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| [02:28:02] | RyeBrye: | Hmm... distributed scraping? interesting |
| [02:28:18] | RyeBrye: | Screen scraping sucks. |
| [02:28:52] | simcop2387-tv: | well back to playing with my tv and firewire |
| [02:28:54] | RyeBrye: | I think it would probably behoove us to write two screen scraping modules – so that way when one service changes their website to break the scraper there is a backup one to use while the main one gets fixed |
| [02:29:04] | simcop2387-tv: | oh qt still going |
| [02:29:41] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, yea, thats part of the reason i like datadirect/zap2it they seem to make it easy and don't mind it |
| [02:29:51] | simcop2387-tv: | but they only have us listings |
| [02:30:52] | RyeBrye: | simcop2387 – as of Sept 1 there will be no more zap2it |
| [02:31:00] | RyeBrye: | at least not labs.zap2it.com |
| [02:31:57] | ** psm321 is still hoping they'll make it a pay service (w/ reasonable prices of course) ** | |
| [02:32:20] | psm321: | though that would still discourage new people that i try to introduce to mythtv |
| [02:32:22] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, really? i hadn't heard that |
| [02:32:30] | GreyFoxx: | simp: Just announced this evening |
| [02:32:49] | simcop2387-tv: | man that sucks |
| [02:33:11] | jams: | GreyFoxx- did you ever get around to looking at that iso? |
| [02:33:18] | simcop2387-tv: | i wonder what those misuses are |
| [02:33:36] | GreyFoxx: | jams: Do you have anew one? I tried one a couple months back |
| [02:33:52] | jams: | oh yeah it's much improved |
| [02:34:02] | GreyFoxx: | cool |
| [02:34:03] | jams: | i didn't know if you ever tried the iso, or just d/l it |
| [02:34:10] | RyeBrye: | I made a post in the forum with a vote on it |
| [02:34:11] | RyeBrye: | http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?t=1296 |
| [02:34:19] | RyeBrye: | So far 20 people have voted that they would pay for guide data |
| [02:34:23] | RyeBrye: | and 1 guy said he wouldn't |
| [02:34:26] | GreyFoxx: | RyeBrye: One of them is me |
| [02:34:29] | RyeBrye: | Good :) |
| [02:34:36] | RyeBrye: | I'm guessing most people here have already votes |
| [02:34:53] | simcop2387-tv: | i'd pay if it was a reasonable amount but i'd prefer not to to the point i'd write my own scraper |
| [02:34:53] | GreyFoxx: | jams: Yup, definately tried it, if you have posted something newer I'll check that out toor |
| [02:35:21] | GreyFoxx: | simcop2387-tv: For the cheapskates scrapers will be an option at least |
| [02:35:28] | GreyFoxx: | Might end up going back to it |
| [02:35:39] | RyeBrye: | Anyone know one of the founders of Google? They could buy out zap2it to add TV listings to Google – and they could keep the labs opened! |
| [02:35:54] | simcop2387-tv: | GreyFoxx, yea, my main issue is i don't have a job still but once i get one i'd probably be alot more willing to pay :) |
| [02:36:07] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, haha that'd be nice :) |
| [02:36:16] | RyeBrye: | Yeah. I can dream, right :) |
| [02:36:37] | jams: | GreyFoxx- i will send a link in the near future, but first i want to add the latest fixes. Mind giving feedback this time =) |
| [02:36:42] | simcop2387-tv: | hmm actually something like azureus's distributed database could be made to hold tv listings quite easily, and be fairly good at if all mythbackends did it by default |
| [02:36:48] | GreyFoxx: | jams: Certainly :) |
| [02:36:59] | simcop2387-tv: | well back to exploring the firewire code to make it do what i need |
| [02:37:13] | jams: | thank you sir |
| [02:43:27] | psm321: | RyeBrye: i actually suggested a google tv listing service in my interview there :) |
| [02:44:03] | simcop2387-tv: | psm321, we thank you deeply |
| [02:44:23] | simcop2387-tv: | its about the most we can hope for :) |
| [02:44:25] | psm321: | that was a while ago tho |
| [02:44:33] | pza: | does anyone have a lircrc that works with the linux-input-layer standard lircd.conf? |
| [02:45:03] | psm321: | and it was less a suggestion and more an answer to "what idea would you pitch to the founders if you were given the chance?" so i doubt it went very far |
| [02:46:03] | simcop2387-tv: | hey i don't think unless someone working at google did it that we could hope for more |
| [02:47:51] | simcop2387-tv: | pza, all of my lircrcs are bad messes of using modes to create something akin to a turing machine so that i can do more with fewer buttons :) (it all started when all i had was a remote with 24 buttons including the 10 numbers, so i really only had 14 for controlling mythtv, mplayer, xmms, and a number of other functions that could be running at the same time) |
| [02:52:33] | wastrel: | RyeBrye: that's why i thought p2p would be good, the data would get shared out without overloading the host |
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| [03:00:36] | simcop2387-tv: | wastrel, it probably wouldn't be too hard to do, i'd look at it like something like the azureus distributed database thingy like i said, but with an ability to expire data |
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| [03:03:41] | simcop2387-tv: | the scraping would be the hardest part i'd think |
| [03:05:59] | wastrel: | yeah |
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| [03:07:44] | simcop2387-tv: | but something like that could cerntainly lower the requirements for distributing it, i know i'd run a large bit of the database at least a couple gig or more |
| [03:08:05] | Beirdo: | Ahoy there Chutt. |
| [03:09:48] | RyeBrye: | My Sony TV remote is funky... irrecord can't figure out what to do with it! |
| [03:09:56] | RyeBrye: | strange |
| [03:10:08] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, frequency mismatch? |
| [03:10:32] | simcop2387-tv: | yay! finally, got mythplugins to build with qt3 instead |
| [03:10:37] | RyeBrye: | I don't know... It hates it |
| [03:10:37] | simcop2387-tv: | stupid qt4 |
| [03:10:58] | RyeBrye: | eventually mythtv will run in qt4 from what I hear |
| [03:11:15] | RyeBrye: | too bad about this remote, too... It's a nice one with tons of buttons :( |
| [03:11:20] | simcop2387-tv: | yea, can't wait thats supposed to happen after mythui is finished |
| [03:11:21] | GreyFoxx: | heh gonna be some work before that happens :) |
| [03:11:30] | GreyFoxx: | a lot of work :) |
| [03:11:34] | simcop2387-tv: | yea |
| [03:12:28] | simcop2387-tv: | i can't wait for mythui, once its ready and things are going i'll have time by then to write the icon browsing mode like my parents old sony dish reciever has thats much faster to get to a channel than a guide unless you memorize all the channel numbers |
| [03:12:58] | GreyFoxx: | icon browsing? |
| [03:13:10] | GreyFoxx: | OSD displays channel icons and you navigate that ? |
| [03:13:18] | simcop2387-tv: | basically |
| [03:13:38] | simcop2387-tv: | whether anyone else will like it i dunno but i like it :) |
| [03:13:44] | GreyFoxx: | heh |
| [03:14:12] | simcop2387-tv: | its just a nice way to do it, and when there isn't an icon it displays their name (or an abbreviated form of it) |
| [03:14:18] | tris: | does anyone make a gentoo-based mythtv appliance? or, alternatively: what's the most future-proofed/easy-to-update mythtv appliance available? |
| [03:14:25] | wastrel: | chunks |
| [03:14:42] | simcop2387-tv: | chunks? |
| [03:14:59] | wastrel: | sorry idle thought about p2p database |
| [03:15:04] | simcop2387-tv: | ah |
| [03:15:05] | simcop2387-tv: | heh |
| [03:15:59] | RyeBrye: | icon browsing sounds cool |
| [03:16:16] | RyeBrye: | if you were on the Beryl / Compiz team, you could have icon browsing on a rotating cube |
| [03:16:31] | RyeBrye: | that lit on fire and shot smoke out as it spun, and exploded when you selected the channel |
| [03:16:33] | RyeBrye: | :D |
| [03:16:42] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, i'll take a picture or two tommorrow of it and post it somewhere so you can get an idea of what its like |
| [03:16:49] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, ha |
| [03:16:49] | RyeBrye: | I like the general idea |
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| [03:17:07] | simcop2387-tv: | maybe even a small movie of it |
| [03:17:14] | RyeBrye: | as long as it scrolled fast enough and stuff – I think something like the control-tab where it's just one line |
| [03:17:22] | RyeBrye: | Have you seen OS X's application switching? |
| [03:17:38] | RyeBrye: | command-Tab – a big long line of application icons that are open and it just scrolls through those... |
| [03:17:38] | simcop2387-tv: | no i haven't |
| [03:17:43] | simcop2387-tv: | ah |
| [03:17:54] | RyeBrye: | I remember it being more elegant than it actually is (I just popped it opened) |
| [03:18:00] | simcop2387-tv: | beryl does something like that with live window previews i like that (but i don't think myth could do that one easily) |
| [03:18:07] | RyeBrye: | yeah – something like taht |
| [03:18:22] | psm321: | whats mythui? |
| [03:18:24] | RyeBrye: | live previews would be really tough unless you have n tuners |
| [03:18:28] | simcop2387-tv: | the live preview part i mean, myth couldn't do that but it'd be cool as hell |
| [03:18:39] | RyeBrye: | I'd buy a few more tuners for it :) |
| [03:18:39] | simcop2387-tv: | RyeBrye, yea |
| [03:18:44] | simcop2387-tv: | haha |
| [03:18:49] | RyeBrye: | It'd be like Sliver or something |
| [03:18:55] | simcop2387-tv: | i'm not sure i have that much money to burn |
| [03:18:57] | RyeBrye: | that old sharon stone voyerism movie |
| [03:19:04] | RyeBrye: | (not that I ever saw it... er...) |
| [03:19:13] | simcop2387-tv: | ha |
| [03:23:20] | topher: | im having some trouble with mythvideo. when i select video manager or "watch videos" in mythfrontend, it does nothing. i cannot select those elements, but i built the plugin correctly and it is installed in /usr/local/lib/mythtv/plugins/ . any ideas as to what could be wrong? the rest of my setup works great |
| [03:24:04] | topher: | i mean to say i can highlight "video manager" but pressing okay doesnt take me to any new screens. i was going to strace the program and see if maybe it cant find a file or something, but do any of you have thoughts? |
| [03:28:24] | simcop2387-tv: | ok that might fix it |
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| [03:29:37] | simcop2387-tv: | topher, not sure i've not had that problem before, only thing i can think of is that the plugins aren't completly installed or finding what they need |
| [03:30:28] | topher: | simcop2387-tv: yeah, i tried doing a strace but no luck, the output is scrolling really fast. i tried rebuilding mythvideo. im a little lost |
| [03:31:13] | simcop2387-tv: | try running the frontend with the option, mythfrontend -v all,nodatabase |
| [03:31:38] | simcop2387-tv: | the nodatabase thing is so that you don't get tons and tons and tons and tons of useless stuff about database queries when they shouldn't matter |
| [03:31:49] | topher: | ok, one sec |
| [03:32:41] | topher: | ah yea |
| [03:32:52] | topher: | undefined symbol in mythvideo |
| [03:33:31] | topher: | looks like some weird qt thing. unable to find symbol _ZN42_GLOBAL__N_videolist.cpp_00000000_12B7B89517tree_view_to_flatERNS_13meta_di r_nodeERSt6vectorIP8MetadataSaIS4_EE |
| [03:33:37] | wastrel: | hi |
| [03:34:20] | topher: | ah, no, that's a function in videolist.cpp, which is in my source. weird |
| [03:34:30] | topher: | i guess ill recompile again and make sure that object file is included |
| [03:35:36] | simcop2387-tv: | weird well that does it :) |
| [03:35:44] | simcop2387-tv: | hey wastrel |
| [03:37:32] | wastrel: | my lirc thingy didn't work :] |
| [03:37:44] | simcop2387-tv: | lirc thingy? |
| [03:38:09] | wastrel: | "installing and setting up" |
| [03:38:37] | topher: | nope, no luck. still missing :( |
| [03:38:37] | simcop2387-tv: | ah |
| [03:38:54] | simcop2387-tv: | topher, are you sure the new .so is actually being installed? |
| [03:39:13] | topher: | yeah |
| [03:39:30] | topher: | new timestamp and all |
| [03:39:37] | topher: | ill look for another .so, maybe an old one? |
| [03:40:02] | simcop2387-tv: | possibly |
| [03:40:29] | simcop2387-tv: | its about all i can think of that'd do it i had a similar symbol problem once with old plugins |
| [03:41:14] | jams: | that often shows up when the plugin does not match the mythlibs |
| [03:41:16] | tank-man: | try "ldconfig" |
| [03:41:47] | jams: | or i should say newer plugin code then the installed version of mythlib or vice versa |
| [03:42:14] | simcop2387-tv: | thats part of the reason i rather like using a package manager for such things, much harder to result in that kind of clutter |
| [03:42:30] | topher: | yeah, i ldconfig'd it. anybody know the command to list all symbols in a .so? i can see the function right there in video_.cpp and the .o file was compiled for the mythvideo.so |
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| [03:43:52] | topher: | yeah, videolist.o is even included in the .so file's creation, i guess i can manually copy the file over but i think something else is going on. |
| [03:44:50] | topher: | dammit, i wonder what's going on here |
| [03:45:30] | simcop2387-tv: | i think with -v all it'll list where its loading the plugin from doesn't it? |
| [03:45:42] | simcop2387-tv: | i think thats how i found the old ones before |
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| [03:46:09] | topher: | yeah, it does. it's loading the new one. the new .so file is missing a symbol according to dlopen() but i found that function in the source file and made sure that source file's object file made it into the file .so |
| [03:47:03] | simcop2387-tv: | thats really odd |
| [03:47:24] | topher: | i wonder if it's some odd fc7 thing |
| [03:47:32] | topher: | new linker or something |
| [03:47:41] | simcop2387-tv: | no clue |
| [03:48:02] | simcop2387-tv: | make distclean in the plugins directory and rebuild from scratch? |
| [03:48:11] | topher: | yeah, i tried |
| [03:48:28] | topher: | it's a fresh install anyway, it's gotta be something more sneaky! heh |
| [03:49:22] | topher: | it might be because in mythplugins/mythvideo/mythvideo/videolist.cpp, somebody wrote something kinda odd to get a call to tree_view_to_flat working |
| [03:49:47] | simcop2387-tv: | dunno |
| [03:49:56] | topher: | they declare the function within an operator in order to then call it, instead of using the original definition. i bet it's some sort of hack that no longer works. ill have to ask the devs i guess :( |
| [03:50:39] | simcop2387-tv: | only thing i can think of, i'm still cleaning up some partially complete things in the mythplugins svn so that i can use them again |
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| [03:51:45] | simcop2387-tv: | they seem to be mostly related ffmpeg being synced again |
| [03:52:23] | topher: | aha! i was right |
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| [03:52:38] | topher: | it's a fc7 symbol thing. taking out the call and replacing it w/ function code fixed it. ill submit a patch i guess |
| [03:52:39] | topher: | thanks though guys! |
| [03:53:19] | wastrel: | irrecord is making me sad |
| [03:54:14] | simcop2387-tv: | also i think my problem is not having mythtv and mythplugins at the exact same revision (using a gentoo ebuild) |
| [03:54:19] | simcop2387-tv: | for the mythtv part |
| [03:54:24] | ** cesman_away is back. ** | |
| [03:54:26] | cesman_away is now known as cesman | |
| [03:55:04] | simcop2387-tv: | you are not back! |
| [03:55:41] | wastrel: | maybe this remote is wonky? |
| [03:56:04] | simcop2387-tv: | possible got another? |
| [03:56:43] | wastrel: | no |
| [03:56:57] | wastrel: | this is a remote wonder usb thingy |
| [03:57:06] | wastrel: | i haven't got ir hardware for my comp yet |
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| [03:59:10] | simcop2387-tv: | SWEET YAY!!!!!, the mythtv movie times thing rocks (though displays funny) |
| [03:59:19] | wastrel: | movie times thing rocks funny! |
| [04:00:01] | simcop2387-tv: | huh |
| [04:00:18] | clever: | Error at /home/mythtv/mythtvbuild/mythplugins/mythweb/includes/mythbackend.php, line 172: |
| [04:00:18] | clever: | Unexpected response to MYTH_PROTO_VE |
| [04:00:28] | clever: | yes it is running |
| [04:00:31] | ** clever slaps mythweb arround ** | |
| [04:00:59] | xris: | don't slap poor mythweb. |
| [04:01:11] | clever: | lol yay you can fix it for shure:P |
| [04:01:14] | xris: | clever: that usually means mythweb's a different version than the backend |
| [04:01:31] | clever: | it was working a second ago |
| [04:01:52] | clever: | i restarted the backend and it ran fine for a few page loads |
| [04:02:14] | simcop2387-tv: | clever, did you go to the recordings page? |
| [04:02:18] | xris: | odd |
| [04:02:23] | clever: | yes im trying to refresh that page |
| [04:02:44] | simcop2387-tv: | oh wait didn't see that error message, but i know that page will usually take a while to load for me since its making thumbnails |
| [04:03:14] | simcop2387-tv: | that reminds me i need to cleanup the recordings database its got some entries for recordings whose files got "lost" and are no longer there |
| [04:03:14] | clever: | 2007-06–19 23:00:04.609 MythSocket(acbc40e0:-1): writeStringList: Error, socket went unconnected. |
| [04:03:19] | clever: | backend is spiting that also |
| [04:03:43] | clever: | simcop2387: after you identifi them id just delete them normaly(mythweb/fe) |
| [04:05:40] | clever: | 2007-06–19 23:05:11.765 MythSocket(acfce1b8:-1): writeStringList: Error, socket went unconnected. |
| [04:05:49] | clever: | slightly diff socket |
| [04:06:21] | simcop2387-tv: | clever, i know which ones they are but the backend refuses to remove them |
| [04:06:34] | clever: | and loading http://5.111.154.10/mythweb/tv/ gave me info on a show |
| [04:06:59] | clever: | and now the recorded list works fine again |
| [04:07:54] | clever: | fixed itself... |
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| [04:10:48] | ** clever goes off to sleep ** | |
| [04:11:50] | adante: | anybody here able to run myth.rebuilddatabase.pl? |
| [04:12:28] | adante: | i get a can't locate Time/Format – which seems to be a fairly old pm which i can't install for various odd reasons |
| [04:13:46] | simcop2387-tv: | Time::Format? that should be pretty easy to get off cpan |
| [04:13:46] | xris: | adante: it's not that old. |
| [04:13:57] | baldwin5881: | are you using cpan to look for it? |
| [04:13:59] | simcop2387-tv: | #perl can help you get it |
| [04:16:34] | adante: | yeah cpan fails with wierdness, g-cpan installs with wierdness – i'll go bug #perl cheers |
| [04:17:47] | adante: | so i'm banned from perl |
| [04:18:21] | adante: | i think this is because a few weeks ago my connection was really shaky and i reconnect spammed them |
| [04:18:39] | adante: | simcop2387-tv: any chance you could do me a favour and hop in perl and ask them if they'd be willing to unban me? |
| [04:18:47] | adante: | tell them i fixed my connection problems |
| [04:19:04] | simcop2387-tv: | oh i'll unban you myself then :) |
| [04:20:13] | simcop2387-tv: | adante, there you are |
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| [04:22:14] | wastrel: | invalid toggle bit |
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| [04:36:13] | timmyhuntington: | does myth have any support for downloading broadband content? |
| [04:40:33] | mikeones: | humm, no. |
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| [04:55:39] | t0ny-p40: | timmyhuntington, you can play videos with mythtv |
| [04:56:26] | timmyhuntington: | cool... i was just curious if there was anything to play streaming content from a website, so I can record it |
| [04:57:32] | t0ny-p40: | it cant record streaming content. |
| [04:57:44] | t0ny-p40: | look up mencoder, and vlc |
| [04:57:48] | t0ny-p40: | both can do it. |
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| [04:58:11] | timmyhuntington: | sweet.. thanks |
| [04:58:48] | mikeones: | is there away to stream recorded content accross the web with mythweb using avi's? |
| [05:00:03] | GreyFoxx: | mike3_: latest svn includes a flash player to stream recordings via mythweb that way |
| [05:00:26] | GreyFoxx: | otherwise you need to install (if you can get it working) something like mythstreamtv |
| [05:01:13] | ** GreyFoxx heads to bed ** | |
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| [05:09:07] | RyeBrye: | to get the flash player to work you have to install ffmpeg, fwiw |
| [05:09:12] | RyeBrye: | but it works nicely |
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| [05:10:59] | ** RyeBrye loves ccache ** | |
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| [05:11:12] | achew22: | if I get a firewire cable box can the firewire (since its two way communication) change the channel? |
| [05:11:18] | RyeBrye: | yes |
| [05:11:18] | mikeones: | I have mythweb and ffmjep working on recoreded shows but can I also play avi's? |
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| [05:11:35] | mikeones: | *ffmpeg |
| [05:11:36] | RyeBrye: | like mythmovie things? I don't think so |
| [05:11:40] | RyeBrye: | I think it only plays recordings |
| [05:11:41] | achew22: | RyeBrye, were you answering me? |
| [05:11:45] | RyeBrye: | yes, achew22 |
| [05:11:50] | RyeBrye: | firewire changes channels |
| [05:12:01] | achew22: | RyeBrye, so I don't need a serial? |
| [05:12:07] | RyeBrye: | nope |
| [05:12:32] | achew22: | i think you may have just justified the extra dollar a month for digital |
| [05:12:47] | RyeBrye: | There can be a few issues with this – don't nkow if they have been fixed. I set up a firewire box for a friend and not all firewire channels were in the clear for him, so when mythtv would try to tune to one that was encrypted it would just keep changing up and not stop until it got to one that worked... |
| [05:13:17] | RyeBrye: | only the hd channels are usually encrypted, afaik – but I guess it all depends on your cable co |
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| [05:20:03] | Tanthrix: | It's best to delete any channels that are not in the clear – trying to tune a 5C channel is asking for trouble |
| [05:20:44] | Tanthrix: | On my setup, about 1/4 of the time it will require me to rerun firewire_tester to stabilize the connection (Anyone know what that actually means?) |
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| [06:19:09] | NightMonkey: | Wow, bad news for zap2it users. :( |
| [06:19:27] | NightMonkey: | Any ideas for an alternative after September? |
| [06:21:33] | NightMonkey: | http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?p=4895 |
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| [06:22:17] | NightMonkey: | It will have been a good 4 years. :( |
| [06:23:16] | achew22: | SHIT! |
| [06:23:33] | NightMonkey: | Yep. |
| [06:25:15] | achew22: | what can we do |
| [06:26:08] | NightMonkey: | I dunno. Perhaps XMLTV will come to the rescue? |
| [06:26:22] | achew22: | maybe — what would the source be |
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| [06:27:25] | NightMonkey: | Scape Yahoo, or zap2it.com (if that's not dying, too). |
| [06:27:33] | NightMonkey: | Er, "Scrape", that is. |
| [06:27:40] | achew22: | um... |
| [06:27:50] | achew22: | i don't look forward to writing that code |
| [06:28:04] | achew22: | could we setup a community zap2it account? |
| [06:28:10] | achew22: | pay the 500 a month? |
| [06:28:39] | NightMonkey: | Wow, that's an interesting idea. However, I'd guess that that contract has some limits on "number of concurrent connections" and such. But, that's just a guess. |
| [06:28:53] | achew22: | do you think they'd wave that if we ran it on our servers |
| [06:29:02] | achew22: | I'm willing to run a server in my datacenter |
| [06:30:00] | NightMonkey: | Tom at zap2it has been the primary liaison to the forums. He'd probably be a good contact. Let me look up his forums nick. |
| [06:30:27] | achew22: | lol have my boss foot the bandwidth bill |
| [06:30:45] | NightMonkey: | "tmstom". |
| [06:31:07] | achew22: | who should send it? |
| [06:31:09] | achew22: | ijr? |
| [06:31:28] | NightMonkey: | He'd be a good heavyweight, sure. |
| [06:31:48] | achew22: | who do you have to kill to get a pm session with ijr? |
| [06:32:24] | NightMonkey: | How would you assure them that the content we buy isn't going to be used by other commercial entities? |
| [06:32:50] | mchou: | I don't know why zap2it cant use a bit of peer pressure regarding misuse |
| [06:33:11] | achew22: | NightMonkey, by the same method they are — online surveying |
| [06:33:13] | mchou: | I find the misuse reason a bit hard to swallow |
| [06:33:56] | mchou: | I wonder if snapstream has be a bad actor..... |
| [06:34:04] | mchou: | s/be/been |
| [06:34:16] | achew22: | lol we could appeal to Google — cyber mommies fixing everything that is bad |
| [06:34:27] | mchou: | haha!! |
| [06:34:36] | mchou: | google aint gonna do shit |
| [06:34:38] | NightMonkey: | Last few surveys have been empty. Another poster asked if the general trouble at Tribune, Inc. is at the root, but I doubt we'll get a straight answer. |
| [06:34:52] | achew22: | yeah — my surveys have been empty for almost a year |
| [06:34:52] | mchou: | NightMonkey: that was me |
| [06:35:19] | achew22: | small world.... |
| [06:35:22] | mchou: | achew22: no ad revenue for google |
| [06:35:24] | NightMonkey: | Heh. |
| [06:35:47] | achew22: | mchou, just have it output an extra channel filled with ads |
| [06:36:00] | achew22: | channel 666 |
| [06:36:03] | mchou: | achew22: dude, that HSN |
| [06:36:09] | mchou: | that's* |
| [06:36:12] | achew22: | lol |
| [06:36:28] | achew22: | IT COULD OVERWRITE HSN WITH ADS! |
| [06:36:43] | achew22: | and tvguide |
| [06:36:48] | achew22: | and DayStar |
| [06:37:09] | mchou: | anyway, back to xmltv and screen scrapes |
| [06:37:36] | achew22: | from what screen? |
| [06:37:41] | mchou: | just goes to show you cant really depend on "free" beer |
| [06:38:03] | mchou: | gotta get weaned off the tit |
| [06:38:06] | NightMonkey: | Hrm. Wonder if TV Guide has been working on anything like this. They've got all the data... |
| [06:38:24] | mchou: | dont even think about TVGuide |
| [06:38:40] | mchou: | they are litigous as all get out |
| [06:38:40] | achew22: | tvguide = useless |
| [06:38:58] | mchou: | they'll turn around and screw us all for sure |
| [06:39:08] | mchou: | tvguide that is |
| [06:39:37] | mchou: | zap2it/tribune at least never screwed us |
| [06:40:00] | achew22: | yeah |
| [06:40:15] | mchou: | all tribune did was say we gonna stop datadirect |
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| [06:40:56] | achew22: | NightMonkey, to stop the bots we could charge a dollar per year or something really low |
| [06:41:16] | mchou: | achew22: what bots are you refferring to? |
| [06:41:35] | HalonChilled (HalonChilled!n=HalonChi@ool-44c7f32f.dyn.optonline.net) has quit () | |
| [06:41:37] | achew22: | someone referenced bots earler |
| [06:41:42] | achew22: | how to stop them |
| [06:41:47] | achew22: | no wait-- corporate enteties |
| [06:41:52] | achew22: | nevermind a dollar wont stop them |
| [06:41:54] | mchou: | bots on irc or? |
| [06:41:56] | achew22: | its late... sorry |
| [06:42:14] | achew22: | no we were talking about setting up our own and paying the 500/month fee to get a commercial license |
| [06:42:35] | mchou: | achew22: you now for sure it's $500/mo? |
| [06:42:40] | mchou: | know* |
| [06:42:45] | achew22: | Your commercial prices used to start at $500/month per market. That's a little steep for a home user! |
| [06:42:49] | achew22: | from the forums |
| [06:42:54] | achew22: | they were 500 |
| [06:43:07] | mchou: | ouch, 500/mo per market |
| [06:43:11] | mchou: | that's steep |
| [06:43:28] | achew22: | ohh i thought it was global |
| [06:43:33] | NightMonkey: | I'm gonna guess that that is the bottom of a very high graph line. |
| [06:43:41] | mchou: | nope, I'm just quoting you :) |
| [06:44:19] | mchou: | bah |
| [06:44:42] | mchou: | I'd think hacking xml would be cheaper :) |
| [06:44:49] | mchou: | xmltv, that is |
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| [06:47:18] | achew22: | they may give us special prices |
| [06:49:22] | mchou: | achew22: huh?? what pipe you smoking? |
| [06:49:50] | mchou: | if they wanted to give us special prices they would have told us already |
| [06:50:08] | mchou: | instead of saying we gonna stop now |
| [06:50:43] | mchou: | or sept. 1. |
| [06:50:57] | Paladine: | whats this xmltv issues? |
| [06:51:25] | mchou: | there is no issue with xmltv |
| [06:51:27] | achew22: | Paladine, zap2it is done |
| [06:51:33] | achew22: | bedimte |
| [06:51:35] | achew22: | good night |
| [06:51:36] | Paladine: | what you all talking about, I just got up |
| [06:51:36] | NightMonkey: | What providers does xmltv's grabbers grab from now (worldwide)? |
| [06:51:43] | ** achew22 crys himself to sleep ** | |
| [06:51:51] | NightMonkey: | http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?p=4895 |
| [06:51:51] | Paladine: | in the UKit grabs data from Radiotimes |
| [06:52:20] | Paladine: | oh zap2it? doesn't that only effect US users? |
| [06:52:51] | NightMonkey: | Is page scraping legal in the US? We're not reselling the data... |
| [06:54:04] | Paladine: | page scraping should be 100% legal, there is no difference to visiting a page with a browser than scraping it with another app |
| [06:54:20] | NightMonkey: | God, I remember the relief to know that zap2it was replacing xmltv. Reliable. |
| [06:54:20] | Paladine: | if companies don't want data to be public, they shouldn't publish it the publicdomain |
| [06:54:29] | mchou: | Paladine: heh, except the ads :) |
| [06:54:47] | mchou: | Paladine: it aint "public domain" |
| [06:55:05] | NightMonkey: | Paladine: That's interesting, because I was just parsing the ToS and copyright pages on tvguide.com, trying to see if PVRs or other uses are explicitly banned... |
| [06:55:06] | mchou: | public domain has a very special meaning |
| [06:55:07] | Paladine: | mchou, it doesn't make any difference, the fact remains, if the data is available publically that is the fault of the organisation publishing it |
| [06:55:30] | NightMonkey: | Paladine: Unfortunately, that's often not the case once you get in court. |
| [06:55:43] | NightMonkey: | At least in the U.S. |
| [06:56:07] | Paladine: | mchou, you deliberately misinterpretted my use of the phrase :p if it is on the net and freely available to browsers without login requirements or authentication, it is to all intent and pusposes, in the public domain |
| [06:56:16] | NightMonkey: | Time to open the WikiBrain. |
| [06:57:39] | NightMonkey: | DMCA strikes again. |
| [06:58:04] | NightMonkey: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping |
| [06:59:22] | NightMonkey: | Feh. |
| [06:59:30] | Paladine: | DMCA is only a valid argument if a 3rd party is scraping the data and then redistributing it, it would not be relevant for individuals scraping the page for personal use |
| [06:59:34] | mchou: | Tribune can spend $ taking us all to court :) |
| [07:00:29] | Paladine: | since I am in the UK I am not familiar with how zap2it works, but if they are diseminating copyrighted material, they are the ones breaking the law, not the users of their service |
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| [07:01:37] | mchou: | Paladine: dude, zap2it have copyrights to their own stuff |
| [07:02:01] | NightMonkey: | Paladine: We signed an agreement when we signed up with their service to license their data for personal use. The problem is that, I guess, too many people/entities abused this. |
| [07:02:23] | Paladine: | it doesn't matter, if they put the data up on the internet without requiring some form of authentication to access it, it does not get covered by dmca for individual use |
| [07:02:28] | mchou: | NightMonkey: bah. I dont buy the misuse reason |
| [07:03:04] | mchou: | NightMonkey: it's in their best interests to disclose the abusers |
| [07:03:37] | mchou: | NightMonkey: instead of forcing us to screen scrape :) |
| [07:04:41] | Paladine: | anyway it is pretty much irrelevant, if zap2it goes down, it willsimply be replaced by an xml system someone else will put up, andwill be accessible via xmltv |
| [07:04:45] | mchou: | I thought registration was the point against abuse too |
| [07:06:19] | NightMonkey: | mchou: Yeah, that's true. Just pull the accounts of the abusers. |
| [07:06:33] | mchou: | NightMonkey: exactly |
| [07:06:54] | Paladine: | sounds to me like zap2it simply don't have effective security measures in place during the sign up process, allowing bots to login and aggregate the data for nefarious purposes |
| [07:07:02] | mchou: | so I personally think "misuse" is a BS reason |
| [07:08:00] | mchou: | Paladine: they can easily track excessive logins and whatnot |
| [07:08:04] | NightMonkey: | Just take the top 50 users each day (above a certain threshold of use), and auto-disable them. |
| [07:08:10] | mchou: | and just suspend those accounts |
| [07:08:58] | NightMonkey: | Or, perhaps have a 6 hour/12 hour/1 day waiting period before validating account for access. |
| [07:09:39] | NightMonkey: | Weird. |
| [07:09:47] | mchou: | anyway, I wouldnt lose sleep over this |
| [07:10:09] | NightMonkey: | Not until 13 days before September 1st, anyway. ;) |
| [07:10:10] | mchou: | it's a PITA is all |
| [07:10:29] | juski: | I blame the guys selling ready-made mythboxes myself :) |
| [07:10:32] | juski: | it's all their fault |
| [07:10:37] | mchou: | someone will have to dust off the old xmltv code |
| [07:11:03] | Paladine: | juski, you see the new Sony pvr box in the news yesterday? |
| [07:11:06] | juski: | yeah somebody's gonna have to brush up on their www::mechanize ;) |
| [07:11:10] | Paladine: | they have called it a DVR-250 |
| [07:11:11] | juski: | Paladine: nope |
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| [07:11:49] | juski: | first google hit is a TVonics DVR250 – looks weird |
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| [07:11:58] | Paladine: | yeah thats the one |
| [07:12:07] | juski: | nothing to do with Sony |
| [07:12:07] | Paladine: | dual tuner |
| [07:12:17] | juski: | http://www.tvonics.com/dvr250.html |
| [07:12:28] | Paladine: | actually according to the news article I read it is being manufactured by sony |
| [07:12:36] | Paladine: | and the team who set up the project are ex sony staff |
| [07:12:52] | mchou: | juski: I blame the AppleTV crowd |
| [07:13:07] | Paladine: | "nd fair play to TVonics – a company set up in 2004 by some ex-Sony types – the gadget itself being manufactured in the UK by Sony" |
| [07:13:11] | mchou: | maybe they're responsible for abuse |
| [07:13:30] | juski: | mchou: hahaha. I can't see how, but carry on |
| [07:14:13] | Paladine: | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/19/review_tvonics_dvr250/ |
| [07:14:13] | juski: | Paladine: sold out!! |
| [07:14:22] | Paladine: | sold out? |
| [07:14:31] | mchou: | that's BS |
| [07:14:33] | juski: | £190.. sheesh man |
| [07:14:42] | mchou: | more like they have production issues |
| [07:14:52] | Paladine: | is only works with freeview though |
| [07:14:55] | mchou: | sold out my ass |
| [07:15:08] | juski: | Paladine: so what? Freeview is all there is worth having! |
| [07:15:16] | Paladine: | its is basically a freeview version of sky+ |
| [07:15:17] | mchou: | that's like saying PS3 is "sold out" |
| [07:15:38] | juski: | mchou: you can easy say "sold out" means the same as "we didn't make enough" |
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| [07:15:53] | Paladine: | juski, I disagree, value is determined by the consumer, if a consumer wishes to buy sky or virginmedia etc., they totally within their rights to do so |
| [07:16:07] | juski: | and if they're a UK startup business they won't have the cash to bet on over-stocking |
| [07:16:31] | juski: | Paladine: I still say you're wrong. anyway, if you want a PVR with $ly or Virgin, you have to have theirs, end of. And they're all shite |
| [07:16:52] | Paladine: | incorrect, I use a my own pvr with sky |
| [07:17:13] | juski: | Paladine: yes but with a messy arrangement of svideo & ir blaster/channel changer box |
| [07:17:23] | Paladine: | not messy at all |
| [07:17:34] | juski: | and it's dependent on a free EPG service which could disappear at any minute |
| [07:17:39] | juski: | ;) |
| [07:17:52] | ** NightMonkey cries ** | |
| [07:17:58] | Paladine: | Ihave my standard sky decoder box, a very small black box to control channels via rf2 and a link via svideo, there is nothing messy about it |
| [07:18:01] | juski: | Paladine: it's MESSY. You won't catch Joe Bloggs consumer having the nuts to set up a mythtv system |
| [07:18:33] | juski: | it's MESSY – there's this box that plugs into another box which takes real brainpower to set up ;) |
| [07:18:39] | Paladine: | again, not true with regards epg, the epg info can be parsed over the same rf2 channel I use to control the the channel changing |
| [07:19:26] | juski: | so el reg. makes an invalid point about the dvr250 only being useful for freeview. of COURSE it's only useful for freeview because $ly & virgin limit the hardware that can be used to their own. and so would I ! |
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| [07:19:43] | Neeesat25: | Good Morning |
| [07:20:13] | Neeesat25: | Anyone using the TV-out of PVR-350 with mythtv? |
| [07:20:18] | juski: | wait til the next gen of $ly HD arrives – they say it won't work with non-HDCP TVs.. muhahahaha. Can you spell pissed-off customers? |
| [07:20:49] | juski: | Neeesat25: oh you poor thing. You've not got one of them have you?! |
| [07:21:02] | Neeesat25: | no not yet |
| [07:21:08] | juski: | don't do it! |
| [07:21:09] | juski: | seriously |
| [07:21:12] | juski: | it's not worth it! |
| [07:21:16] | Paladine: | juski, it won't be an issue for me since our sky+ box is attached to an HDCP compliant HDTV |
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| [07:21:19] | Neeesat25: | why not? |
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| [07:21:51] | juski: | Neeesat25: no digital audio support. 2. no hardware assist for dvix/xvid/etc 3. no spiffy opengl for games & next gen. mythtv UI |
| [07:22:16] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: I have a PVR-350. It's worked great for my purposes, but support in ivtv for X-output is slowly dying as time goes by. |
| [07:22:25] | NightMonkey: | It's=Its |
| [07:22:46] | ** cesman is away: Gone away for now. ** | |
| [07:22:49] | cesman is now known as cesman_away | |
| [07:22:53] | Neeesat25: | So doesn't worth byuing one then? |
| [07:22:57] | juski: | oh and if you wanna play ogg/flac/mp3 – you still need to route the audio into your soundcard |
| [07:23:00] | juski: | NO |
| [07:23:27] | Neeesat25: | I am trying to get the best picture out for my stantard TV |
| [07:23:45] | juski: | recent nvidia cards have _excellent_ quality TV outputs |
| [07:23:52] | NightMonkey: | juski: What would you recommend for all-svideo connections + remote? |
| [07:23:53] | Neeesat25: | No got picture out from any Nvidia card I have try |
| [07:23:54] | NightMonkey: | Ah. |
| [07:24:20] | juski: | my fx5200 tv out compares VERY favourably to my standalone Panasonic DVD player, which is excellent |
| [07:24:35] | Neeesat25: | I have try both FX5200 and 6150 |
| [07:24:43] | juski: | Neeesat25: so because you can't get tv out working you were gonna waste money on buying a pvr350 card? |
| [07:25:10] | Neeesat25: | I got TV-out working on my nvidia cards but still no good |
| [07:25:41] | Neeesat25: | I have seen better picture going to my TV as Svideo and composite |
| [07:26:12] | juski: | maybe the cable you're using is crap |
| [07:26:14] | Neeesat25: | ie Hardware mpeg decoder card (FF DVB-s card) |
| [07:26:26] | juski: | boo fucking hoo |
| [07:26:52] | NightMonkey: | juski: Does it have an mpeg encoder? |
| [07:27:07] | juski: | does what have an mpeg decoder? |
| [07:27:17] | NightMonkey: | juski: The fx5200? |
| [07:27:25] | juski: | if you have more than 600mhz CPU, you don't NEED an mpeg2 decoder |
| [07:27:52] | juski: | for all I've seen of XvMC you'd be better off avoiding it if you can |
| [07:28:04] | Neeesat25: | juski: what resolution do you use in your xorg? |
| [07:28:18] | NightMonkey: | juski: I said encoder, not decoder. :) |
| [07:28:33] | juski: | why the hell would a VGA card have an mpeg encoder onboard?! |
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| [07:29:53] | Neeesat25: | juski: what resolution do you use? |
| [07:29:59] | juski: | what ? |
| [07:30:04] | NightMonkey: | juski: Ah. Well, I'm always open to finding a as-good or better replacement for the PVR-350, and it has that. |
| [07:30:11] | Neeesat25: | in xorg.conf? |
| [07:30:21] | juski: | I run my frontend at 720x576 for PAL |
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| [07:30:41] | juski: | and I don't even use my fx5200 on my frontend – the main reason being that it doesn't have an AGP slot :-P |
| [07:30:45] | directhex|work: | 1360x768! |
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| [07:31:05] | juski: | directhex|work: no point since a tv encoder will only scale it |
| [07:31:40] | directhex|work: | juski, i trust my peecee to do scaling more than my teevee |
| [07:32:00] | juski: | the tv encoder on the VGA card will be doing the scaling |
| [07:32:08] | juski: | PAL can't do 1360 |
| [07:32:15] | directhex|work: | who says i'm using a tv encoder? |
| [07:32:20] | juski: | oh ffs |
| [07:32:23] | NightMonkey: | heh |
| [07:32:43] | juski: | this channel can literally go fuck itself today |
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| [07:34:07] | NightMonkey: | Wow, he woke up on the wrong side of the bed-of-nails. |
| [07:35:15] | Neeesat25: | juski: can you please post your xorg.conf on pastebin? |
| [07:35:26] | Paladine: | he is not here |
| [07:35:27] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: He's gone. |
| [07:35:39] | Neeesat25: | Oh sorry |
| [07:38:21] | Neeesat25: | NightMonkey: As you have seen the TV-out of PVR350 does Nvidia cards compaire with it? |
| [07:39:37] | siXy: | Neeesat25: the limiting factor is rarely the card. the cable, and your TV, are more important. nVidia, ATI and the PVR-350 all give good TV output under the right conditions. |
| [07:39:57] | NightMonkey: | I'm not a good judge, as my box is over 3 years old, and has on board Geforce 4 MX. |
| [07:40:42] | Neeesat25: | Thats what I believe too. I have try fx5200 and as I see the picture is not so good |
| [07:40:42] | NightMonkey: | However, I did do cable swaps between the PVR-350 and direct from sat box – crystal clear. However, I do run at high bitrates (at least compared to Tivo). |
| [07:41:20] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: The GF4 MX was no contender. But, again, I haven't tried TV-outs on newer cards lately. |
| [07:42:23] | Neeesat25: | I have try GF4 and it is well behind on the quality from fx5200 etc but still comparing those with my sat reciver it not as great |
| [07:42:39] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: Everyone has their own particular setup which dictates which cards are best. For me, with a combo frontend/backend on a slower proc (in a Shuttle SN41G2V2), with svideo everywhere, the PVR-350 was my answer. |
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| [07:43:11] | directhex|work: | pfft, svideo |
| [07:43:24] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: I *wish* I could find a better card, though, which will have tv-out supported for a while. |
| [07:43:25] | directhex|work: | and geforce4mx has geforce 2 era everything, since it's a geforce 2 |
| [07:44:00] | NightMonkey: | directhex|work: Ah, you're right. Been so long since I cared about that. ;) |
| [07:44:15] | directhex|work: | still, "pffft" @ svideo |
| [07:44:22] | Neeesat25: | As I saw the output of my NEXUS card I still beleive that PVR350 is the same and better than my Nvidia5200 |
| [07:44:27] | NightMonkey: | directhex|work: You do composite? Or HD? |
| [07:44:47] | directhex|work: | NightMonkey, VGA |
| [07:44:55] | Neeesat25: | Composite out stantard TV |
| [07:45:04] | directhex|work: | Neeesat25, then use a pvr350. but bear in mind the enormous list of downsides |
| [07:45:55] | Neeesat25: | Hmm no games support correct? |
| [07:46:05] | Neeesat25: | My kids will kill me |
| [07:46:08] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: Yeah, I second directhex|work. I had 3 years of good service from that card. Not sure I'd get it now, with ivtv's PVR-350 tv-out support in slow decline. |
| [07:46:45] | directhex|work: | Neeesat25, no ANYTHING support. you can play back recordings, but that's about it. no next-gen ui, no gl, no other video formats like xvid, no other audio formats |
| [07:47:09] | directhex|work: | Neeesat25, it's purely tv-in-tv-out. if that's all you want, then fine |
| [07:47:14] | NightMonkey: | Neeesat25: Not without better tv-out support. At one point, MAME worked well (kinda), but with more recent Xorg driver revisions, that capability went away. |
| [07:47:41] | directhex|work: | at any rate "ick" at PVR cards anyway. who wants analog tv? |
| [07:47:47] | Neeesat25: | I see |
| [07:47:57] | NightMonkey: | directhex|work: Those who can't afford HD? ;) |
| [07:48:20] | directhex|work: | NightMonkey, costs less than £20 to get started with dvb-t |
| [07:48:53] | Neeesat25: | Things in my country does not run so fast. I bought my TV before 3 years. 32" flat |
| [07:49:24] | Neeesat25: | Best tv in that support is component |
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| [07:56:09] | NightMonkey: | OK, night all/have a good day. Shed a tear for zap2it. :( |
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| [07:57:16] | directhex|work: | what's wrong with zap2it? |
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| [08:07:27] | Neeesat25: | I will catch ya all later |
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| [08:13:07] | onewheelskyward: | These misuses, combined with other business factors have led to the decision to discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007. |
| [08:13:19] | onewheelskyward: | http://labs.zap2it.com |
| [08:15:53] | Paladine: | w00p wildsat updated all the stupid channel number changes sky made earlier this week, so my tv works properly again now :) |
| [08:16:27] | directhex|work: | at least there's EIT to fall back on, for those of us in civilised countries |
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| [08:21:12] | Freddo: | hi... I have a problem with utf characters in mythtv frontend... I use mythdora 4 and i can see correct characters at terminal, but not in frontend |
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| [10:12:27] | Paladine: | my mythbackend has started crashing with no errors, causing my frontend to also crash |
| [10:12:33] | Paladine: | has happened 2x today for some reason |
| [10:12:39] | Paladine: | I haven't made any changes to my config |
| [10:14:44] | directhex|work: | dvb? |
| [10:14:57] | Paladine: | nope |
| [10:15:01] | Paladine: | svideo input |
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| [10:38:23] | Guest41757: | are there any alternatives to zap2it? |
| [10:39:14] | immolo: | xmltv |
| [10:39:32] | Ruleke: | EIT data ? :) |
| [10:39:52] | immolo: | and that |
| [10:40:05] | immolo: | but xmltv is better then EIT :P |
| [10:40:16] | Guest41757: | xmltv uses zap2it in the US, right? |
| [10:40:25] | Ruleke: | heh any simple way to do a transponder scan remotely ? openening mythtv-setup over the internet isn't really do-able :P |
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| [10:41:41] | immolo: | Ruleke- high compression and low colours for vnc |
| [10:41:51] | immolo: | :P |
| [10:42:03] | Ruleke: | I don't use vnc tbh |
| [10:42:18] | immolo: | what you using |
| [10:42:28] | hads: | ssh |
| [10:42:37] | Ruleke: | well nothing, because ssh X forward will be slow |
| [10:42:40] | Zider: | why wouldn't it be doable? |
| [10:50:12] | Ruleke: | not sure, it takes ages before I see any text and it's downloading a lot of data |
| [10:51:23] | Tanthrix: | I've done myth via VNC before while working out issues with my frontend, worked fine. |
| [10:51:31] | Ruleke: | I see the background, just no menus to select :P |
| [10:51:38] | Ruleke: | yeah setting it up now |
| [10:51:43] | Tanthrix: | Gotta disable glx |
| [10:51:52] | Dibblah: | Ruleke: Current SVN? |
| [10:51:57] | Tanthrix: | Er, gl. |
| [10:51:58] | Ruleke: | -fixes |
| [10:52:04] | Ruleke: | no gl afaik |
| [10:52:11] | Ruleke: | it falls back to QT painter anyway |
| [10:52:28] | Dibblah: | Oh, anyway, it needs to download the backgrounds + theme images to your local X server. |
| [10:52:36] | Ruleke: | yeah :( |
| [10:52:51] | Ruleke: | hence the question for a better low-bandwith way :P |
| [10:52:53] | Dibblah: | Slightly faster with current SVN. |
| [10:52:54] | Tanthrix: | Do it anyway. |
| [10:54:44] | Tanthrix: | "mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt" fixed my VNC issues |
| [10:55:04] | Ruleke: | it's using qt already, just takes ages for the images to be transferred |
| [10:55:05] | Tanthrix: | (The problem of seeing the background but no buttons, etc..) |
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| [10:55:26] | Ruleke: | even takes a while when I get 2MB/s |
| [10:55:44] | Dibblah: | x11vnc is always an option... |
| [10:55:58] | Tanthrix: | Ruleke: And you're doing this via VNC? |
| [10:55:59] | Ruleke: | yer, but it's the backend, so no X ? :P |
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| [10:56:16] | Dibblah: | No X? Cunning. |
| [10:56:27] | Dibblah: | Xvnc, then. |
| [10:56:28] | Ruleke: | why would I want X on a headless box |
| [10:56:54] | Dibblah: | You probably have X, unless you're doing something wierd and perverted ;) |
| [10:57:02] | mike3_: | hi guys, so I setup mythtv to shut down and wake up for recordings. Well the computer is coming back up like normal and X will automatically load mythwelcome that will NOT auto load mythfrontend. Well I woke up today and and it looked like the computer froze. not to sure why......... |
| [10:57:03] | Ruleke: | yeah just no session |
| [10:57:20] | Tanthrix: | Ruleke: If that is so, VNC would not be sending the background images, then the buttons, etc.. It's basically sending a glorified screenshot. So if you don't see the buttons now, you're never going to see them. |
| [10:57:33] | Ruleke: | I'm not using vnc I said |
| [10:57:39] | siXy: | Ruleke: freenx? |
| [10:57:40] | Tanthrix: | Oh, my bad. |
| [10:57:46] | ** Tanthrix is tired and falls into bed ** | |
| [10:57:52] | Ruleke: | yeah NX is then the crazy solution :P |
| [10:58:33] | siXy: | if had myth working on nx... but this definition of working doesnt include actually being able to watch anything |
| [10:58:42] | siXy: | *s/if/i've |
| [10:58:48] | Ruleke: | of course |
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| [11:59:08] | croppa: | I am just working on setting up my remote with mythtv.........I have it working on some functions. |
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| [11:59:57] | croppa: | Is it possiable to make the remoto start mythtvfrontend? |
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| [12:38:25] | siXy: | croppa: yes, lirc.org |
| [12:44:45] | clever: | arg its back |
| [12:44:45] | clever: | 2007-06–20 07:41:05.806 MythSocket(82eb0e8:-1): writeStringList: Error, socket went unconnected. |
| [12:45:11] | clever: | you can also use mythwelcome which will use less ram and start the frontend for you |
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| [12:57:13] | fryfrog: | does anyone use irexec with lirc? |
| [12:57:25] | TSCHAKWerk: | i haven't in a .....very....long time |
| [12:57:33] | TSCHAKWerk: | 4 years or more. |
| [12:57:43] | fryfrog: | do you have any working entries in your lircrc? |
| [12:57:50] | fryfrog: | i'm just trying to make sure i have the format right :/ |
| [12:58:04] | fryfrog: | bah, of course my FE is not up :) |
| [12:58:22] | fryfrog: | i have setup sudo to allow "sudo pkill mythfrontend" w/o a pw, so i want to use a button to run that |
| [12:58:49] | fryfrog: | and also an ssh -e "sudo /etc/init.d/mythbackend restart" to do the BE |
| [12:58:57] | TSCHAKWerk: | interesting |
| [12:58:59] | TSCHAKWerk: | hmmm |
| [12:59:07] | TSCHAKWerk: | i don't have any of those entries in my lircrc anymore |
| [12:59:12] | fryfrog: | ah |
| [12:59:13] | TSCHAKWerk: | it's been rewritten about 5000 times over. |
| [12:59:43] | TSCHAKWerk: | what _i_ wanna do, is find a way to use the "service" port on my TV |
| [12:59:48] | TSCHAKWerk: | so I can turn the damn thing on and off |
| [13:00:09] | fryfrog: | humm, i think i have it setup wrong |
| [13:00:26] | fryfrog: | TSCHAKWerk: Why not get a nice logitech harmony remote? |
| [13:00:35] | Ruleke: | I was wondering about hdmi-cec on my tv |
| [13:00:38] | TSCHAKWerk: | let me look at that. |
| [13:00:40] | fryfrog: | I've never used anything better for controlling stuff |
| [13:00:46] | xDVST8x: | I have a mythtv backend server & front end for sale – the server is a dual(2 physical cpus) opteron 2.0Ghz with 1 Gig of ram, 1x dvd writer, 1x 200gig sata OS drive, 10x 750Gig sata storage drives in a raid 6 array (6TB total storage). on a promise ex16300 raid controller(16 ports) the powersupply is 750watt. every drive has its own set of fans (3 per drive) with filters. the front end is an AMD 3800+ 1gig ram 1.0TB sata raid array. built on video/so |
| [13:00:53] | TSCHAKWerk: | I like my Zalman MCE remote. |
| [13:00:59] | fryfrog: | the wife *loves* it and I just got one for my mom and I think she'll love it |
| [13:01:29] | fryfrog: | For example, you press "Watch TV" and it turns on the TV, sets it to the hdmi input, turns the stereo on, sets it to video |
| [13:01:40] | fryfrog: | and when you hit vol up/down, it controls the stereo (not the tv) |
| [13:01:49] | Ruleke: | yeah a friend of mine has one of them harmony things |
| [13:02:00] | fryfrog: | Depending on all the gear you have hooked up, you can do like "Watch DVD" or "Play Game" etc, etc |
| [13:02:11] | fryfrog: | the only thing that sucks is that my pc doesn't power on via ir command |
| [13:02:14] | fryfrog: | nor does my xbox |
| [13:02:24] | fryfrog: | and i don't use my DVD player anymore :( |
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| [13:03:16] | fryfrog: | xDVST8x: jesus, 10x 750G drives! |
| [13:03:29] | fryfrog: | thats like $2–3k right there |
| [13:03:29] | xDVST8x: | :) i wanted to do all my dvds without encoding |
| [13:03:42] | fryfrog: | whatcha getting rid of it for? |
| [13:03:51] | xDVST8x: | wife says so.. baby coming :( |
| [13:03:51] | TSCHAKWerk: | that's bordering on almost too much for a remote |
| [13:04:01] | fryfrog: | ah, need the money? |
| [13:04:07] | xDVST8x: | yeah |
| [13:04:11] | fryfrog: | or she just doesn't like the 1000W heater? :p |
| [13:04:25] | xDVST8x: | i set it up in a different room we dont use :) |
| [13:04:45] | xDVST8x: | everything is pretty much brand new.. drive have 5 year warranty.. that started about a month ago |
| [13:04:48] | fryfrog: | You must be hoping to get a lot, 5–10k i'd guess? |
| [13:05:03] | xDVST8x: | 5k... its a deal for someone.. |
| [13:05:08] | xDVST8x: | it comes with a front end |
| [13:05:08] | fryfrog: | yeah, sure is :) |
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| [13:05:22] | xDVST8x: | i can send pix :) |
| [13:05:40] | fryfrog: | I hate to be negative, but I doubt a lot of people could *afford* that. If I were you, I'd probably part it out and sell almost everything individually on eBay or something |
| [13:05:55] | xDVST8x: | i was thinking of putting it on ebay |
| [13:05:58] | TSCHAKWerk: | that sucks that you have to sell it |
| [13:06:00] | TSCHAKWerk: | :-( |
| [13:06:03] | xDVST8x: | yeah it does |
| [13:06:06] | fryfrog: | you'd probably get more $$$, and you can do what everyone else does and rip on the shipping :) |
| [13:06:15] | fryfrog: | definatly do *not* sell it all put together on ebay |
| [13:06:18] | xDVST8x: | ive already got about 260 dvds on it |
| [13:06:23] | fryfrog: | you'll end up selling it way lower than its worth |
| [13:06:57] | fryfrog: | what kind of case is it in? |
| [13:07:15] | xDVST8x: | one i got off newegg.. i think its antec also |
| [13:07:59] | xDVST8x: | it has 12 5–1/4 bays 1 floppy up front... 2 hd bays internal |
| [13:08:23] | fryfrog: | nice, so you have like raid array bays in the 5.25? |
| [13:08:31] | fryfrog: | or just mounted in em bare? |
| [13:08:53] | xDVST8x: | i have them 5–1/4 adapters with the fan kit |
| [13:09:00] | fryfrog: | ah |
| [13:09:04] | xDVST8x: | each drive has 3 fans |
| [13:09:12] | fryfrog: | gotcha |
| [13:09:26] | xDVST8x: | the cooler the drive the longer it last |
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| [13:10:03] | quicksilver: | I'd sell it as separate auctions but on the same timing |
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| [13:10:10] | xDVST8x: | it could be setup in a raid 5 array.. and you could gain another 750gig.. for a total of 6.75TB but you could only loose 1 drive to failer — no 2 |
| [13:10:13] | quicksilver: | and offer to reduce shipping costs for people who buy multiple parts |
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| [13:11:14] | xDVST8x: | true |
| [13:11:53] | xDVST8x: | failure.** :) |
| [13:12:36] | fryfrog: | yeah, as much as i wish i could afford the whole thing... |
| [13:12:53] | fryfrog: | i could hardly afford one of the 750G drives :) |
| [13:13:10] | ** Ruleke surfs the sony site for their 'Digital Living System'... it all seems so nice in theory ** | |
| [13:13:16] | xDVST8x: | i paid about 269 each |
| [13:13:27] | xDVST8x: | i think i'll put them up there for 210 each |
| [13:14:27] | fryfrog: | does any of the new tivo or directv gear "mesh" ? i swear i read somewhere a long time ago that they would (on a local network only of course) mesh together and do cool stuff |
| [13:15:02] | fryfrog: | like balance who records what, pool all recordings for playback on any system... |
| [13:15:31] | fryfrog: | like myth, that is |
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| [13:39:00] | mikeones_: | hello |
| [13:39:08] | fryfrog: | hi! |
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| [13:43:13] | juski: | that's the webshite up to date again :) |
| [13:44:51] | siXy: | you seem to have deleted the PG-OSD – glad i grabbed it nice and quickly :) what was the bug? |
| [13:45:10] | juski: | what bug? |
| [13:45:18] | siXy: | oh everything has been deleted.... |
| [13:45:49] | juski: | and? |
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| [13:46:50] | siXy: | any reason? they were nice themes |
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| [13:46:58] | GreyFoxx: | They've moved to SVN I believe |
| [13:47:21] | siXy: | ah ok |
| [13:47:41] | juski: | well if I were to delete them out of SVN it could just be undone again |
| [13:49:05] | siXy: | oh btw is there a known issue with playing back ripped .vob files with the internal player? |
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| [13:50:12] | GreyFoxx: | Have you looked at the bug reports in trac ?:) |
| [13:50:34] | siXy: | uhh whoops sorry! *rushes off to check* |
| [13:51:31] | mikeones_: | what do I press to switch between viseo sources while watching live tv? I thought it was "i" but that did not wprk. |
| [13:51:37] | juski: | Y |
| [13:51:42] | mikeones_: | Thanks! |
| [13:52:44] | juski: | better go.. got a hotel room to cancel & stuff |
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| [13:54:37] | siXy: | yeah no bug there. possible XvMC issue actually thinking about it. will check tonight. but generally find that the internal player falls over when trying to play ripped dvds. all other playback is fine |
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| [14:21:22] | tyce: | I am having trouble with my backend server crashing a lot. From what I've read, it seems it may be tied to my mysql tables getting corrupted due to dvb signal strength issues. Anyone know a good way to A. Fix the table (I don't care how much data is lost) and B. stop this from happening in the future? |
| [14:22:29] | fryfrog: | so it looks like my problem with irexec is that it simply needed to be running... but does anyone know if there is an "ubuntu" way of running irexec? |
| [14:22:34] | fryfrog: | like in an init.d script? |
| [14:22:34] | siXy: | how about C. just restart it automatically when it dies? |
| [14:22:45] | directhex|work: | tyce, the latter: run svn mythbackend, or get better reception |
| [14:23:10] | directhex|work: | tyce, the former, phpmyadmin has an easy clicky way of repairing tables (the usual mysqlcheck sorta sucks) |
| [14:23:24] | tyce: | ok |
| [14:23:43] | tyce: | thing I don't get is when it locks in a channel, it shows 100% everytime |
| [14:24:25] | siXy: | fryfrog: its trivialto put irexec in an init.d script to start on boot. however there is a good reason to do it the way it is suggested and put in rc.local instead |
| [14:24:35] | directhex|work: | some cards give junk reception info |
| [14:25:37] | siXy: | rc.local ensures it will run last, giving lirc time to start up. otherwise what can happen is that irexec tries to start to early, and fails. |
| [14:26:08] | tyce: | I have seen it dip in the past, but that's why I went to a big @$$ antenna in the attic |
| [14:26:13] | Ruleke: | that's what the numbers after the S are for :P |
| [14:26:37] | fryfrog: | siXy: good point, but where do you find the recomendation that it be run from rc.local? |
| [14:26:56] | fryfrog: | Does it need to run as any specific user? (say, the user that is running X or root or... what? |
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| [14:27:56] | siXy: | Ruleke: this is true, although if you want to do this ii would still put slee20 at the start of the script |
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| [14:28:46] | siXy: | fryfrog: the reccomendation comes from what was the reccomendation copla years ago when i was last involved witht he lirc project. things may have changed now |
| [14:29:26] | siXy: | irexec wants to run as the same user as you want to run myth as btw |
| [14:29:52] | Ruleke: | I can't wait for lirc to be superceded by some hid/event-type kernel thing :P |
| [14:29:54] | siXy: | put putting sleep commands in init scripts slows system boot, hence putting it in rc.local |
| [14:30:26] | siXy: | Ruleke: i agree as long as im not the one that has to do it :P |
| [14:30:33] | Ruleke: | :) |
| [14:30:38] | Ruleke: | just wishful thinking |
| [14:31:03] | Ruleke: | let it all just use the input layer |
| [14:31:27] | Ruleke: | I think the ati remote things use it now |
| [14:31:35] | siXy: | would be *really* nice tho. its a lot better than windows' abysmal serial port polling but still no match for a proper input layer |
| [14:32:24] | Ruleke: | doesn't look all that difficult tbh... not for the gpio-based ones on tuner cards |
| [14:33:41] | Ruleke: | get rid of at leaset lirc_gpio and lirc_i2c |
| [14:33:43] | Ruleke: | ah well |
| [14:33:53] | siXy: | should be pretty easy with the mce-usb ones too – admittedly im using easy in a highly reletive sense here :) |
| [14:34:07] | Ruleke: | just assign keys to the right gpio values :) |
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| [14:34:34] | Ruleke: | wb juski |
| [14:34:40] | Ruleke: | yikes :) |
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| [14:35:09] | wastrel: | hi. |
| [14:35:18] | Ruleke: | ey |
| [14:35:18] | wastrel: | i was working on my remote last night and it didn't work |
| [14:35:30] | wastrel: | also i need ir blaster |
| [14:37:24] | siXy: | wastrel: "it didnt work" is probably the vaguest sentence in the english language :) |
| [14:38:01] | wastrel: | well i'm just commenting, not looking for help |
| [14:38:08] | wastrel: | i'm at work now, can't troubleshoot |
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| [14:38:50] | wastrel: | gonna mess around with irexec when i get home see if it's myth or lirc that's not working |
| [14:41:29] | Ruleke: | irw will show you |
| [14:41:32] | Ruleke: | iirc |
| [14:41:47] | siXy: | fair enough :) if you have got the /etc/lirc.conf and ~/.mythtv/lircrc from the net, check that keynames match |
| [14:42:18] | siXy: | mode2 checks that lirc is working. irw checks that lirc is working and you have a valid /etc/lirc.conf |
| [14:42:30] | wastrel: | i built my own with the record thingy |
| [14:42:34] | wastrel: | it was funish? |
| [14:42:55] | wastrel: | but it was reading keys. my .lircrc is lovingly hand crafted |
| [14:43:06] | wastrel: | but no love from myth heartless thing |
| [14:43:16] | siXy: | hehe :) |
| [14:43:53] | wastrel: | but my sound works! |
| [14:43:58] | siXy: | do you have ~/.lircrc, ~/.mythtv/.lircrc or ~/.mythtv/lircrc? |
| [14:44:03] | wastrel: | that's good i didn't have speakers to check before. |
| [14:44:12] | wastrel: | ~/.lircrc |
| [14:44:18] | siXy: | well sound is nice. subtitles get old fastish |
| [14:44:27] | wastrel: | yes but subtitles work too which i like |
| [14:44:31] | wastrel: | because sometimes they're useful |
| [14:44:42] | siXy: | hmm. its worth making a symlink to ~/.mythtv/lircrc |
| [14:44:48] | Ruleke: | you need one in myth :) |
| [14:44:54] | wastrel: | also i turned on deinterlacing and it sped up the menu |
| [14:44:58] | wastrel: | oh yay |
| [14:45:05] | wastrel: | ok that's an easy thing to try |
| [14:45:24] | wastrel: | also i need to figure out how to change the channel without changing the channel because i have an external tuner |
| [14:45:52] | Ruleke: | hmm ? |
| [14:46:11] | jduggan: | ir blaster |
| [14:46:22] | siXy: | irsend |
| [14:47:13] | siXy: | myth has support for external tuners controlled by lirc, you just need to specify in backend options i believe |
| [14:47:28] | wastrel: | yeah i need an ir blaster, but i tried schedule a recording with the thingy turned to the channel i wanted to record and it changed the channel on the tuner card and i got fuzz |
| [14:47:43] | wastrel: | i just need to play with it i'm sure |
| [14:48:25] | siXy: | wastrel: if there is any opssibiliy of using an internal tuner i cannot reccomend it highly enough. external ones are a PITA |
| [14:48:39] | jduggan: | i got an external tuner working right away |
| [14:48:52] | jduggan: | wiht my $ky digital box |
| [14:48:56] | wastrel: | i probably just need to fill in the external channel change command thingy. |
| [14:48:57] | jduggan: | *with |
| [14:49:03] | wastrel: | i don't think i can use the internal tuner because i have digital cable? |
| [14:49:03] | jduggan: | yah |
| [14:49:03] | Hoxzer_: | s |
| [14:49:07] | wastrel: | but i don't know much about TV |
| [14:49:21] | siXy: | ah skys not so bad as you can get a modulator to passcommands to second input and get reliable channel switching that way |
| [14:49:39] | jduggan: | siXy: sure, i was doing it with infrared, though :) |
| [14:49:53] | siXy: | but generally blaster-controlled switching isnt particularly reliable in my experience |
| [14:50:04] | wastrel: | it worked pretty well for my replay |
| [14:50:09] | wastrel: | i hope it's just as good with myth. |
| [14:50:24] | wastrel: | going to try with the easy circuit first then i'll build the fancy one if necessary |
| [14:50:44] | siXy: | there are digital cable tuners. the availiablity in your area, compatibility and legality are all under question, however |
| [14:50:55] | jduggan: | what i didnt like is the delay |
| [14:51:25] | jduggan: | mythtv would think it changed channel, blip a bit, osd would show new channel info, then like 5seconds later it actually changes channel |
| [14:51:44] | jduggan: | bit petty i know, just pi**ed me off :P |
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| [14:52:11] | siXy: | yeah that was another of the things i disliked about the external tuner :) |
| [14:52:41] | wastrel: | we're used to that from the replay :] |
| [14:52:56] | wastrel: | it's annoying but meh, we don't flip channels anymore we just use the program guide |
| [14:54:10] | jduggan: | ive got so many projects on the go |
| [14:54:19] | jduggan: | difficult to decide where to spend money |
| [14:54:37] | jduggan: | ideally i need a new frontend |
| [14:54:44] | jduggan: | all cost me dollah |
| [14:56:02] | jduggan: | maybe i should start a fund |
| [14:56:08] | siXy: | jduggan: if you have spare money, put your new frontend in: http://www.hifiatx.com/hfx.php?lang=EN |
| [14:56:40] | siXy: | (fanless heatsink cases that look fantastic) |
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| [14:57:34] | jduggan: | yea they look nice |
| [14:58:45] | jduggan: | jesus, a little pricey ;P |
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| [15:02:36] | clever: | lol |
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| [15:07:44] | mikeones_: | anyone know if zap2ip labs is limiting the number of channels you can select guide data on for digital cable? |
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| [15:12:00] | mikeones_: | I can start with 456 channels selected but after running mythfilldatabase, I only have 6 selected. |
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| [15:12:54] | juski: | resistance is futile anyway – you only have til 1st Sept. |
| [15:13:11] | mikeones_: | hehe |
| [15:13:36] | mikeones_: | let me atleast enjoy my hdtv guide data till then! |
| [15:13:55] | fryfrog: | mikeones_: i have hundreds :/ |
| [15:14:04] | fryfrog: | what happens on 1st sep? |
| [15:14:15] | mikeones_: | no more free zap2ip |
| [15:14:20] | fryfrog: | uh |
| [15:14:23] | mikeones_: | :( |
| [15:14:24] | fryfrog: | no shit? |
| [15:14:45] | juski: | no, no BS |
| [15:14:54] | fryfrog: | what are they doing? |
| [15:15:06] | juski: | discontinuiing the current service |
| [15:15:23] | wastrel: | i don't understand what they mean about abuse |
| [15:15:28] | juski: | and so far not planning to replace it with even a paid-for service |
| [15:15:38] | laga: | too much profanity in the current EPG |
| [15:15:39] | wastrel: | is it bandwidth or intellectual property abuse they're talking about |
| [15:15:42] | fryfrog: | damn, so they aren't even going to offer a $5/mo service either :/ |
| [15:15:47] | laga: | wastrel: IP, afaik |
| [15:16:03] | juski: | so you mostly have the people who make & sell preconfigured boxes to blame – that's what I read |
| [15:16:05] | fryfrog: | what is mythtv going to do? go back to scraping html? |
| [15:16:14] | juski: | fryfrog: unknown as yet |
| [15:16:29] | laga: | s/mythtv/xmltv/ ;) |
| [15:16:53] | fryfrog: | juski: no, i think it is due to *commercial* applications using the free service |
| [15:16:53] | RyeBrye: | http://www.tribunemediaentertainment.com/prod . . . ensing.shtml has a contact for someone that handles data licensing |
| [15:17:06] | fryfrog: | ie, sagetv, beyondtv, etc (but i dunno if they specifically do it) |
| [15:17:19] | juski: | well whatever – sucks to be in the USA using mythtv right now eh :) |
| [15:17:44] | jams: | nah something will turn up before sept |
| [15:18:05] | jams: | zap2it gave notice, and for that i thank them |
| [15:18:18] | RyeBrye: | I was thinking about contacting him to license it, but I have NO IDEA how many people would pay or what they would charge, or what kind of bandwidth the server would need to serve it all up... etc |
| [15:18:44] | RyeBrye: | In other words, I have no idea if it would even be remotely worth it... I'm not rich. |
| [15:19:04] | wastrel: | minimal bandwith, p2p :] |
| [15:19:05] | RyeBrye: | A friend of mine has a brother-in-law who just sold his VOIP company for a half million and is looking for new investment projects... |
| [15:19:47] | fryfrog: | I think I would pay a few bucks / mo to have their listings :/ |
| [15:19:49] | juski: | trouble is – if you have a subscription model & treat everybody as a user – you'd have to be pretty shrewd to stop commercial entities abusing it |
| [15:20:17] | jams: | ug i need to stop reading the zap2it thread on -users it's just repeating the same crap over and over and over and over and over |
| [15:20:35] | laga: | jams: yup |
| [15:20:37] | juski: | "wahhh!" |
| [15:20:41] | juski: | "wahhhh!" |
| [15:20:45] | laga: | jams: OMG MY POOR BELLY IS ACHING |
| [15:20:51] | fryfrog: | I wonder if the MythTV group itself could create a contract with them |
| [15:20:55] | juski: | I love the sound of upset users |
| [15:21:02] | RyeBrye: | Does the MythTV group itself have an organization? |
| [15:21:05] | fryfrog: | ie, you donate to mythtv and then mythtv uses that to pay the contract |
| [15:21:08] | jams: | laga/juski stop it, i have already read that =) |
| [15:21:10] | juski: | RyeBrye: no |
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| [15:21:18] | laga: | jams: :) |
| [15:21:41] | RyeBrye: | we need to elect a prime minister to go out and establish treaties |
| [15:21:43] | fryfrog: | I wonder how *much* they want to charge :/ |
| [15:21:55] | juski: | fryfrog: they' |
| [15:22:02] | RyeBrye: | I can email their licensing guy to find out a ballpark on what they might charge |
| [15:22:08] | RyeBrye: | (i.e. thousands a month or tens of thousands a month) |
| [15:22:08] | juski: | they'll prolly want to charge what they feel they can get out of users |
| [15:22:22] | fryfrog: | juski: no, i mean the "commercial" portion |
| [15:22:25] | juski: | it'll be tens of thousands a month I'd imagine |
| [15:22:32] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, that's my guess too |
| [15:22:49] | fryfrog: | I wonder if they have statistics on how many scrapers are mythtv |
| [15:22:53] | fryfrog: | er, users i mean |
| [15:23:14] | Beirdo: | they should |
| [15:23:21] | fryfrog: | i agree, they should :) |
| [15:23:22] | RyeBrye: | I DID email Google via their business proposition suggestion form and suggested they look into either a: buying zap2it, or b: licensing the guide data to build a google TV listings service that they could link with websites and stuff |
| [15:23:34] | RyeBrye: | I doubt anything will come of it before Sept 1, but I put the bug in their ear |
| [15:23:35] | Beirdo: | they should have the signup code we used tracking the users -> project |
| [15:23:45] | fryfrog: | well, i hope someone officially with mythtv contacts them and at least inquires about the costs |
| [15:23:46] | Merlin83b: | RyeBrye: A googler is probably working on it in their 20% right now :) |
| [15:23:51] | siXy: | google tv lisitngs beta... hmm :) not sure i want adwords on my tv guide |
| [15:24:01] | Beirdo: | hahah |
| [15:24:03] | RyeBrye: | I would think it would be like gMail |
| [15:24:06] | fryfrog: | siXy: its not like you could click em :p |
| [15:24:07] | RyeBrye: | POP gmail has no ads |
| [15:24:13] | RyeBrye: | but webmail does |
| [15:24:16] | Beirdo: | well, they wouldn't be buying zap2it, I don't think |
| [15:24:31] | Beirdo: | Tribune Media is not a small company |
| [15:24:44] | RyeBrye: | and Google could get people to give them their zip codes when they signed up for listing services attached to their google account, and Google would get more info to target ads twoards people |
| [15:24:47] | juski: | they prolly own 'TV Guide' |
| [15:24:54] | Beirdo: | they do |
| [15:25:07] | RyeBrye: | Tribune Media is smaller than Youtube I bet |
| [15:25:09] | Beirdo: | Tribune Media is the company that also does the TV Guide magazine last I looked |
| [15:25:13] | RyeBrye: | or would cost significantly less :) |
| [15:25:18] | Beirdo: | I seriously doubt it |
| [15:25:21] | RyeBrye: | Really? |
| [15:25:33] | juski: | how many people in the USA buy TV GUIDE I wonder? |
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| [15:25:53] | juski: | every week – that'd be how much Tribune Media is worth, *minimum* |
| [15:25:56] | Beirdo: | they are pretty much the ONLY company in the USA with the TV listings, that won't be a small company |
| [15:26:20] | Beirdo: | and they supply the same data to many cable companies for the online TV Guide channel |
| [15:26:20] | RyeBrye: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_o . . . bune_Company |
| [15:26:24] | RyeBrye: | Tribune owns lots of stuff |
| [15:26:25] | juski: | and they have the power to leverage broadcasters providing them with listing data |
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| [15:26:57] | fryfrog: | when did they announce the sep 1 thing? |
| [15:26:58] | Beirdo: | I think google licensing it would be a far more likely deal, but wonder what kinda terms they could get? :) |
| [15:27:07] | xris: | fryfrog: yesterday evening |
| [15:27:10] | fryfrog: | ah |
| [15:27:17] | fryfrog: | damn, i'm disappointed :/ |
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| [15:27:26] | fryfrog: | i've actually been pretty happy with zap2it |
| [15:27:41] | fryfrog: | didn't even midn answering their quiz every 3 months |
| [15:27:44] | RyeBrye: | They announced teh sept 1 thing yetserday |
| [15:28:04] | juski: | anyway I'm off. thanks to everybody who downloaded my themes in the past – if you want updates you'll have to wait til there's a mechanism for grabbing em |
| [15:28:14] | Beirdo: | OMG, they own the Cubs? ;) |
| [15:28:15] | Beirdo: | hehe |
| [15:28:20] | Ruleke: | where you off to juski ? |
| [15:28:21] | Ruleke: | lrl ? |
| [15:28:32] | juski: | lrl? be lucky if I end up going there tbh |
| [15:28:44] | Ruleke: | oh, unexpected stuff ? |
| [15:29:00] | juski: | not really |
| [15:29:00] | Beirdo: | Annual Revenue: $5.73 billion USD |
| [15:29:10] | juski: | wasn't ever gonna last |
| [15:29:13] | Beirdo: | hehe, yeah, Google can buy that. muhahah |
| [15:29:23] | Merlin83b: | You leaving us, juski? |
| [15:29:24] | Merlin83b: | Again? |
| [15:29:26] | RyeBrye: | hmm |
| [15:29:30] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, that's a big number |
| [15:29:32] | juski: | I can but try |
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| [15:29:47] | Beirdo: | well, see you later then juski. We'll miss ya |
| [15:30:11] | Merlin83b: | I eagerly await your return. Won't be the same around here. |
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| [15:31:10] | Ruleke: | he'll just live vicariously through the weblogs |
| [15:31:13] | Ruleke: | :p |
| [15:31:24] | Merlin83b: | And then come back in a couple of weeks :) |
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| [15:34:05] | gbee: | oh what have you lot done now? |
| [15:34:37] | directhex|work: | freenode is filled with dwama |
| [15:34:56] | laga: | wtf |
| [15:35:04] | fryfrog: | juski is a funny irc guy :) |
| [15:35:21] | fryfrog: | he always seems to be quitting, coming back, deleting his work, working on it again |
| [15:35:22] | Ruleke: | almost bipolar :P |
| [15:35:31] | fryfrog: | yeah, thats a good description |
| [15:35:36] | Merlin83b: | bircpolar. |
| [15:35:54] | Ruleke: | birc ? |
| [15:35:57] | Ruleke: | heh |
| [15:36:08] | Ruleke: | ircpolar then |
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| [15:38:13] | laga: | o_o |
| [15:38:49] | RyeBrye: | Looks like SageTV uses xmltv already – am I wrong? Do they use zap2it? |
| [15:38:56] | RyeBrye: | http://www.sage-community.org/index.cgi/wiki/XMLTV |
| [15:39:06] | Chutt: | sage uses zap2it directly |
| [15:39:27] | Chutt: | ie, they license the data. |
| [15:39:36] | fryfrog: | ah, okay so they do it legally |
| [15:39:45] | directhex|work: | Oops... |
| [15:39:45] | directhex|work: | Trac detected an internal error: |
| [15:39:55] | fryfrog: | who doesn't? is it really people selling myth boxes already signed up for labs? |
| [15:40:06] | fryfrog: | i can't *imagine* that was big enough to cause them to cancel it |
| [15:40:11] | gbee: | Trac is always detecting errors, it's a little unstable like that |
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| [15:40:25] | directhex|work: | trac is a beautiful freak |
| [15:40:25] | fryfrog: | i imagine it really *has* to be a big, shareware/commercial windows app doing it |
| [15:40:36] | fryfrog: | and... why not then move to scraping the "tvlistings.com" website? |
| [15:40:46] | fryfrog: | i guess they have plans to mitigate that :/ |
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| [15:40:58] | Chutt: | tvlistings.com doesn't have descriptions in a nice format. |
| [15:41:04] | fryfrog: | ah |
| [15:41:15] | Chutt: | ie, individual requests for each program's description |
| [15:41:35] | Chutt: | could get starttime/duration/title/subtitle easily enough from the grid, though |
| [15:41:47] | Chutt: | but scraping sucks – it's just an arms race |
| [15:41:50] | Ruleke: | I'd like to use my EIT data for my analogue card too... al the analog ones are duplicated anyway in the digital transports |
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| [15:41:59] | Chutt: | eit data's only 72 hours |
| [15:42:04] | Ruleke: | not here |
| [15:42:11] | Chutt: | in the us? |
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| [15:42:15] | Ruleke: | no :/ |
| [15:42:20] | directhex|work: | 1 week on EIT in .uk |
| [15:42:40] | Ruleke: | they are upgrading it this week, supposed to be 14 days after then |
| [15:42:42] | directhex|work: | or there's xmltv.radiotimes.com |
| [15:42:53] | directhex|work: | Ruleke, really? 2 weeks in .uk? kick ass! |
| [15:43:04] | Ruleke: | No, I'm not in the UK, sorry |
| [15:43:13] | gbee: | at least here in the UK Radiotimes have agreed to provide their data in a parsable format for xmltv |
| [15:43:22] | Ruleke: | my ssh tunnel just terminates in the UK is all ;) |
| [15:43:50] | directhex|work: | i wonder why they don't provide it in xml directly |
| [15:43:52] | Ruleke: | anyway, time to go home and rescan my transports... |
| [15:43:53] | directhex|work: | rather than csv |
| [15:44:07] | gbee: | directhex|work: because xml is bandwidth unfriendly |
| [15:44:08] | directhex|work: | csv with tilde seperators! |
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| [15:44:27] | fryfrog: | I wonder, are there any *other* opensource apps that use zap2it? |
| [15:44:37] | directhex|work: | gbee, agreed. but why use "flase" instead of "0"? |
| [15:44:40] | directhex|work: | "false" |
| [15:44:41] | fryfrog: | like uh, what is that "vcr" program? |
| [15:44:51] | fryfrog: | vdr? |
| [15:45:26] | Chutt: | fryfrog, everything tv related : |
| [15:45:49] | laga: | fryfrog: vdr uses DVB-EIT mostly. is VDR even used in the US? |
| [15:45:51] | siXy: | geexbox probably |
| [15:45:52] | gbee: | directhex|work: no idea, but 4 extra characters is nothing compared to the wastage of xml |
| [15:46:29] | directhex|work: | it's not waste, it's... um... well described :) |
| [15:46:43] | gbee: | hmm, somehow 'wastage' doesn't seem like the word I was aiming for, heh |
| [15:47:13] | directhex|work: | "cruft" :p |
| [15:47:40] | gbee: | better ;) |
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| [15:48:53] | fryfrog: | http://pastebin.ca/579206 |
| [15:49:01] | fryfrog: | thats a post on labs forums, from a labs guy |
| [15:49:07] | gbee: | the whole point of agreeing to provide the data in CSV format for xmltv was to save them money – prior to that the scraping was hurting |
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| [15:54:43] | wastrel: | waste eh |
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| [16:29:21] | immolo: | isn't the UK 2 weeks for EIT anyway? |
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| [16:35:17] | Gurft: | Anyone running fceu for NES emulation? |
| [16:35:33] | Gurft: | I'm trying to find a way to get it to respond to llirc so I can exit without having a keyboard hooked up. |
| [16:36:07] | GreyFoxx: | Gurft: I've used it, but I just used a keyboard to close it |
| [16:36:32] | Gurft: | I've read a few suggestions of using xmacros, but it'd man having to always have 'exit' mapped to 'ESC' |
| [16:36:37] | Gurft: | which doens't seem like the most optimal solution. |
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| [16:43:19] | gbee: | immolo: 7 days currently, but the quality doesn't compare to the xmltv feed from the radiotimes |
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| [16:45:01] | gbee: | EIT is fine, but RT data includes reviews of most new programmes and all films in the description – so you can actually make an educated decision what to record |
| [16:45:30] | immolo: | gbee- Just that they sell freeview boxes that say 14 days worth of EIT |
| [16:49:10] | gbee: | the top-up tv anytime boxes use a different data source iirc |
| [16:49:39] | gbee: | but with the introduction of freeview playback, I believe the plan is to increase EIT from 7 to 14 days |
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| [17:04:36] | wylie: | ouch. i just saw the news on zap2it labs shutdown. I imagine there is a hotbed of discussion here too? |
| [17:05:40] | TSCHAKWerk: | it's all over the place |
| [17:05:48] | TSCHAKWerk: | *sigh* |
| [17:05:51] | Gurft: | jeez, first I heard. |
| [17:06:02] | TSCHAKWerk: | i've been sick about it for days now |
| [17:06:16] | TSCHAKWerk: | sent in a letter, posted on forum.... |
| [17:06:29] | TSCHAKWerk: | so far no TMS staff have said a word |
| [17:06:30] | wylie: | Is anyone putting together a survey to show who is willing to pay a fair price for the monthly service and collect e-mail addresses of potential customers? I'd be willing to put something up. |
| [17:06:41] | TSCHAKWerk: | wylie: check in the zap2it forums |
| [17:06:49] | Gurft: | Out of curiousity, what are the current options? |
| [17:06:52] | TSCHAKWerk: | wylie: there is a user-started poll there. |
| [17:06:57] | wylie: | I saw the zap2it forums. I didn't see reference to a survey — was there one? |
| [17:06:59] | wylie: | ah, ok |
| [17:07:01] | wylie: | What was the link? |
| [17:07:05] | TSCHAKWerk: | Gurft: um... screen scraping...and......screen scraping. :-P |
| [17:07:28] | wylie: | re: screen scraping. right. someone suggested leveraging tvlistings.com and imdb. |
| [17:07:31] | TSCHAKWerk: | wylie: just click on the forums link on the site... the entry is currently at the top. |
| [17:07:47] | wylie: | which forum? announcements? |
| [17:08:04] | TSCHAKWerk: | user questions |
| [17:08:19] | wylie: | ty |
| [17:08:40] | TSCHAKWerk: | lots of possibilities with screen scraping, each with their own...relative measure of success. |
| [17:09:00] | TSCHAKWerk: | and we were lucky to have datadirect... most places HAVE to scrape or use the EIT data. |
| [17:09:09] | wylie: | http://bb.labs.zap2it.com/viewtopic.php?t=1296 |
| [17:09:12] | TSCHAKWerk: | yes |
| [17:09:15] | TSCHAKWerk: | that one |
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| [17:11:47] | ** dyrne starts a new project called flat_myth. ** | |
| [17:11:54] | dyrne: | whos with me? no more sql! |
| [17:12:21] | ** Gurft shudders at the scan times after modifying the schedule for flat files instead of SQL database.... ** | |
| [17:13:43] | ** TSCHAKWerk beats dyrne with a fire hose. ** | |
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| [17:14:35] | dyrne: | all the great minds suffered for their beliefs ;p |
| [17:15:08] | RyeBrye: | For all the channels but the local ones, I bet we can get our own data repository going and just pull data straight from the channel itself |
| [17:15:26] | RyeBrye: | then you just map the national channel to a channel number |
| [17:15:41] | RyeBrye: | this would work for things like HIstory channel, or other things |
| [17:15:56] | RyeBrye: | ESPN would be a bit tricky since it's "national" but not really – since they play different games on different coasts sometimes |
| [17:16:12] | ** RyeBrye thought it was an easy idea, but quickly realized it was a PITA ** | |
| [17:17:13] | RyeBrye: | dyrne – I'm with you on Flat myth – but I want an entire rewrite of the backend / frontend in brainfuck |
| [17:17:30] | Gurft: | I'm curious if zap2it knows that if folks start screen scraping tvlistings.com how much more load it's going to incur... |
| [17:17:57] | RyeBrye: | Maybe I'll start some bots just downloading data now (and not scraping it) |
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| [17:18:50] | TSCHAKWerk: | Gurft: ....... that's why they STARTED the DataDirect service in the first place. |
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| [17:20:02] | Gurft: | And I imagine they can't charge us hobbyists, as it'd probably have legal conflicts with the organizations they're selling the data to for big $$ |
| [17:20:03] | RyeBrye: | Yeah... I think loading up the seige army of scraping bots by the end of July might be a good idea... |
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| [17:20:35] | GreyFoxx: | this isn't 2003 anymore, there are ways of making scraping very difficult if they want to stop it |
| [17:20:55] | RyeBrye: | Yes, but this isn't 2003 anymore... There are ways of making scraping very distributed if we want to keep it going |
| [17:21:29] | GreyFoxx: | show me a scraper bot that can get around that "enter the letters and numbers you see in this image" and I'll happily support the scraper idea :) |
| [17:21:41] | wastrel: | distributed |
| [17:21:46] | laga: | RyeBrye seems to be a very good negotiator :) |
| [17:21:49] | wylie: | which DVR applications, regardless of open source or commercial, are currently leveraging zap2it labs? (aside from the obvious, mythtv) |
| [17:22:00] | laga: | GreyFoxx: oh, that's not hard. i lost the link, though :( |
| [17:22:12] | GreyFoxx: | wyle: SAgeTV, snapstream and others |
| [17:22:18] | RyeBrye: | GreyFoxx – good point on the captcha... but I doubt they would put captcha on the first request |
| [17:22:32] | GreyFoxx: | We've tossed out the idea of piggy backing on with them |
| [17:22:46] | GreyFoxx: | so it might happen if they are willing |
| [17:22:55] | mikeones_: | My scanned channels look like 0001:723000000:QAM_256:0:2049:1. Do I have to tune into each of the 40 unencrypted qam channels and try to figure out what show I am watching. |
| [17:22:59] | Gurft: | What do you mean? We form an agreement with SageTV and Snapstream? |
| [17:23:01] | RyeBrye: | How much does SageTV pay for their guide data? |
| [17:23:16] | GreyFoxx: | we are stilling waiting for a reply froim TMS about the number of active myth users |
| [17:23:22] | Gurft: | I'm curious where MCE get's it's TV listings. |
| [17:23:24] | GreyFoxx: | RyeBrye: No clue, likely a lot |
| [17:23:27] | RyeBrye: | Yeha |
| [17:23:40] | GreyFoxx: | Gurft: Probably TMS, or a reseller of TMS info |
| [17:23:49] | GreyFoxx: | for MS the cost would be nothing |
| [17:23:58] | jams: | Gurft- TMS and MS foots the bill for the users of mce |
| [17:24:05] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, I wonder specifically what protocol MCE uses to get the guide data... |
| [17:24:11] | RyeBrye: | and how MCE knows it's an MCE box... |
| [17:24:12] | wylie: | I wonder if MS has applied any pressure to TMS..... it wouldn't surprise me. |
| [17:24:15] | RyeBrye: | err... for no reason ;) |
| [17:24:57] | Gurft: | Then the next question, is what do we do? Pass the collection plate around or hope someoen with deep pockets is willing to pay for all of us? |
| [17:25:17] | Gurft: | And even with the collection plate passed, someone needs to organize and track... ugh, it'll be a mess. |
| [17:25:22] | RyeBrye: | Hell... If there was an easy way to extract the guide data from an MCE after it had downloaded it – I would just get an MCE box on my system and share the drive, and then have my MythTV box vampire the guide data out of it every night |
| [17:25:33] | wylie: | No, present a viable business case substantiated by a lot of consumers who are willing to pay a fair price for end-consumer services |
| [17:25:33] | RyeBrye: | the cost of an MCE box would be less than the cost of a subsription fee |
| [17:26:14] | wylie: | This is why you would want to reach out to all communities that currently leverage TMS. The bigger the number of users that would pay on an individual monthly basis, the better. |
| [17:26:38] | wylie: | The short term advantage to TMS might not be that great, but I would argue the long tail is where the value is for them over time. |
| [17:27:03] | GreyFoxx: | At this point we are waiting replies from them before deciding on areal course of action |
| [17:27:25] | wylie: | GreyFoxx; makes sense |
| [17:27:41] | GreyFoxx: | if the price isn't outrageous we might end up doing areseller of listings type or thing, or maybe tie in with someone already doing it. Or might have to resort to scraping which I want to avoid |
| [17:27:45] | Gurft: | Yea, I guess a lot of folks are in 'panic mode' |
| [17:27:50] | GreyFoxx: | yeah they are |
| [17:27:59] | GreyFoxx: | and I understand why |
| [17:28:21] | GreyFoxx: | It's just seeing "new" waves of panic every hour after a new set of people learn of the situaiton that gets annoying |
| [17:28:33] | Gurft: | Out of curiousity, is there somewhere that the rest of us can keep track of what you guys are doing, so we dont' have a million people coming in going "Did someone convince zap2it to kep the listings up?!?!??!" |
| [17:28:36] | GreyFoxx: | but it's human nature so I expect it :) |
| [17:28:38] | laga: | OH MY GOD! zap2it is being shut down?! |
| [17:28:44] | laga: | scnr |
| [17:28:51] | ** GreyFoxx smacks laga ** | |
| [17:28:55] | Gurft: | heh |
| [17:28:56] | wylie: | lol |
| [17:28:58] | ** RyeBrye just got an email from a google recruiter... guess his friend sent his resume in or something ** | |
| [17:29:11] | GreyFoxx: | Gurft: Not really, other than sitting in the dev channel |
| [17:29:26] | GreyFoxx: | the rest is done privately but some happens in there |
| [17:29:45] | Gurft: | might be a good idea to throw a blog up somewhere, then post it in the channel topics? |
| [17:30:02] | GreyFoxx: | nah |
| [17:30:09] | GreyFoxx: | If anything jsut use the frontpage of mythtv.org |
| [17:30:16] | Gurft: | Just as good |
| [17:30:30] | GreyFoxx: | "we know , we know, we are working on it, leaves us be for the moment" :) |
| [17:32:49] | dyrne: | RyeBrye: its your mom trying to get you out of the house :) |
| [17:33:02] | GreyFoxx: | Alas I don't have access to that |
| [17:33:14] | RyeBrye: | :) |
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| [17:35:08] | RyeBrye: | Dang... My salary would have to almost double for it to be worth it for me to even consider going to california... |
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| [17:38:03] | Gurft: | That's what I said when I got my offer from Apple. I just couldn't make it work financially to go out there and work. |
| [17:38:14] | Gurft: | 1 bedroom aparment for $1800 a month.... |
| [17:38:35] | RyeBrye: | WOW |
| [17:38:46] | ** RyeBrye doesn't think his wife will be too into any kind of move ** | |
| [17:38:47] | Gurft: | That's why I like my jbo now. Office is in Phoenix, I work out of my house just outside Philadelphia :-D |
| [17:38:51] | wastrel: | i was paying more in SF |
| [17:38:51] | laga: | get an iTent |
| [17:38:55] | Gurft: | LOL! |
| [17:38:57] | RyeBrye: | We've got a 2100 sq. foot house now that we paid $220k for |
| [17:39:06] | RyeBrye: | I bet that would be $2.2 mill in Cali! |
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| [17:39:23] | wastrel: | for a "2 bedroom" where the 2nd "bedroom" wasn't JUST wide enough for a twin bed, you'd have to crawl in from the end |
| [17:39:24] | RyeBrye: | The idea of a 1 bedroom wont appeal to her much... |
| [17:39:39] | RyeBrye: | I take it there are no suburbs? |
| [17:39:40] | Gurft: | I have a buddy that lives just outsdie cupertino, wanted to move out near me, Asks me what kind of house he can get for $900k Was looking for a 3 bedroom. |
| [17:39:47] | Gurft: | I told him for that kind of money he could buy 2 3 bedroom houses. |
| [17:40:02] | Gurft: | RyeBrye not unless you want a 2 hour communte. |
| [17:40:07] | RyeBrye: | 2 hour each way? |
| [17:40:14] | RyeBrye: | I can handle 2 hour total commute |
| [17:40:23] | Gurft: | just about (depending on the freeway) |
| [17:40:33] | Gurft: | and yes, each way. |
| [17:40:54] | RyeBrye: | So basically, I need about nine times my current income to make moving worth it and keep a good standard of living :) |
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| [17:41:23] | wastrel: | now you understand why i'm broke :] |
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| [17:41:27] | RyeBrye: | you live in CA? |
| [17:41:31] | wastrel: | moved from SF to NYC |
| [17:41:34] | wastrel: | not much difference |
| [17:41:55] | RyeBrye: | Maybe I can telecommute :) |
| [17:41:59] | ** RyeBrye kids himself ** | |
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| [17:43:30] | RyeBrye: | Do salaries adjust a lot out in CA, or are people just crazy? |
| [17:44:00] | wastrel: | you either commute for hours, or don't have a house with a yard, and suck it up in a small apartment |
| [17:44:06] | wastrel: | or you are crazy rich or crazy lucky |
| [17:44:08] | wastrel: | so yes crazy |
| [17:46:35] | RyeBrye: | Wow |
| [17:46:42] | RyeBrye: | My house would cost around 1.25 million in California |
| [17:50:41] | wastrel: | i commuted 1.5hr one way when i lived in berkeley |
| [17:50:56] | wastrel: | paying something like $1200/mo for a 1br |
| [17:51:27] | fryfrog: | is it like that in NYC? |
| [17:51:44] | fryfrog: | my wife would like to move there, at least for a little bit and I think it sounds interesting but... |
| [17:51:51] | fryfrog: | prices are so damn high :( |
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| [17:56:22] | bluey-: | how comes there is no 4:3 to 16:9 zoom mode? |
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| [17:57:11] | fryfrog: | bluey-: what do you mean? |
| [17:57:28] | fryfrog: | like, you have a 4:3 set and the image is 16:9 so you want to... unzoom it ? |
| [17:58:44] | bluey-: | yeah but normal scaling destroys all the Proportion |
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| [17:59:08] | bluey-: | i recently bought an new hdtv which comes with some zoom modes and they don't look bad to use |
| [17:59:09] | bluey-: | w8 |
| [17:59:10] | fryfrog: | I thought if you had a 4:3 set, it'd just put black bars on the top/bottom of the 16:9 image |
| [17:59:32] | fryfrog: | actually, i know it does that on my master backend/frontend |
| [18:00:29] | bluey-: | i just copied it from the manual of my television |
| [18:00:30] | bluey-: | http://home.arcor.de/collinso/Screenshots/example.jpg |
| [18:00:37] | bluey-: | something like this |
| [18:01:07] | bluey-: | right now there are only simple Modes like "Fill" or so but the crop to much |
| [18:01:14] | bluey-: | +y |
| [18:04:38] | bluey-: | what do you think? |
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| [18:05:45] | fryfrog: | wait, you are asking about how to stretch a 4:3 image to fill your entire 16:9 screen? |
| [18:05:58] | bluey-: | yep :/ |
| [18:06:05] | fryfrog: | oh |
| [18:06:13] | fryfrog: | I don't think Myth will do it, but your TV should |
| [18:06:22] | fryfrog: | You make me sick though :) |
| [18:06:34] | fryfrog: | I can't stand when the aspect ratio is not correct! |
| [18:06:44] | fryfrog: | for 4:3 on a 16:9, I much prefer the black bars |
| [18:07:06] | bluey-: | well .. for me not because my tv is connected over vga and it doesn't support any aspect correction over it |
| [18:07:28] | fryfrog: | does your TV have HDMI input? |
| [18:07:39] | fryfrog: | the small plug that looks like a big USB? |
| [18:07:44] | bluey-: | yes but vga works native on it |
| [18:07:52] | fryfrog: | does your video card have a DVI port? |
| [18:08:20] | fryfrog: | you can do DVI -> HDMI, that is what I use. My TV doesn't do any funky tom-foolery with the picture coming in that way |
| [18:08:38] | bluey-: | Yes but HDMI forces me to use 720p or 1080p... with VGA i can use 1360x768 which looks better |
| [18:09:05] | fryfrog: | 1360x768 is 720P basically? |
| [18:09:14] | bluey-: | nope |
| [18:09:14] | TSCHAKWerk: | 1280x720 |
| [18:09:25] | fryfrog: | 1280x720 is 720P, but... what you are listing is nearly the same |
| [18:09:33] | fryfrog: | and it means Myth has to rescale everything :/ |
| [18:09:44] | fryfrog: | and wait, if you have 1080P input, that'd be even better no? |
| [18:10:19] | bluey-: | why should i use the bad scaling of my tv, when i can connect it nativly like an PC Monitor? |
| [18:11:36] | fryfrog: | mmmm, okay |
| [18:13:11] | bluey-: | mhh i guess i need to live with black borders than :/ |
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| [18:40:53] | fryfrog: | zomg, juski was back for a few sec! |
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| [18:54:27] | beata--: | anyone have VX32L? if so do you like it? |
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| [19:01:50] | HalonChilled: | sup |
| [19:02:34] | Zider: | superscript? |
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| [19:05:15] | wastrel: | heh |
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| [19:13:51] | NightMonkey: | So, at this point, is XMLTV the top bet for the replacement for zap2it? |
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| [19:15:11] | wastrel: | seems to be at the moment the only bet |
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| [19:37:06] | mtnbkr-laptop: | anyone see http://www.zap2it.com today? |
| [19:37:29] | mtnbkr-laptop: | No more free listings for us starting Sept. :(( |
| [19:37:40] | gbee: | mtnbkr-laptop: your about a day late on that news |
| [19:37:41] | laga: | OH MY GOD WE'RE GONNA DIE |
| [19:37:44] | laga: | IT'S THE EPG NAZIS |
| [19:37:55] | laga: | QUICK EVERYONE HIDE |
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| [19:38:40] | mtnbkr-laptop: | gbee: haha I guess that's what i get for reading Slashdot... A day late and a dollar short. |
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| [19:39:28] | wastrel: | who are you calling short? |
| [19:41:04] | ** RyeBrye just died ** | |
| [19:41:16] | ** RyeBrye 's death will be effecitive Sept 1 ** | |
| [19:42:00] | anykey_: | how much do they charge for the epg? |
| [19:42:14] | ** mtnbkr-laptop is gonna cry... Just built a 2nd Via mini-itx diskless frontend last week. :( ** | |
| [19:42:45] | gbee: | $500 per lineup per month |
| [19:43:02] | anykey_: | you're joking? |
| [19:43:10] | mtnbkr-laptop: | sad but true |
| [19:43:26] | anykey_: | how can epg be worth 500$ a month?! |
| [19:43:30] | sebrock: | could anyone tell me what the minimum is to install a working x-server? |
| [19:43:32] | Zider: | mtnbkr-laptop: why cry about it? |
| [19:43:38] | sebrock: | xorg and fluxbox? |
| [19:43:44] | gbee: | anykey_: lot of work involved in compiling that data |
| [19:43:49] | laga: | anykey_: people want it, people pay for it. |
| [19:43:52] | Zider: | sebrock: you don't need fluxbox for X |
| [19:43:57] | anykey_: | gbee: true, but not 500$ |
| [19:44:01] | Zider: | sebrock: all you need is an X application |
| [19:44:05] | laga: | anykey_: it's what made the US so great. |
| [19:44:12] | sebrock: | Zider so? just xorg? |
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| [19:44:13] | anykey_: | us is great? |
| [19:44:27] | gbee: | anykey_: that's cheap really – but that figure is for their commercial license, they don't license to individuals |
| [19:44:31] | Zider: | sebrock: yes.. and ofcourse an application to run in it.. like mythtv.. :) |
| [19:44:32] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, I doubt sage pays $500 / month / linuep |
| [19:44:37] | RyeBrye: | 'cause that's nuts |
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| [19:44:58] | sebrock: | Zider, yes that is the thing, It's just for the backend setup |
| [19:45:06] | anykey_: | gbee: well, probably us users need to use tv_grab_something again ;) |
| [19:45:07] | gbee: | RyeBrye: that's for the license, not per customer |
| [19:45:12] | anykey_: | like us rest of the world |
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| [19:45:32] | sebrock: | Zider, so after doing apt-get install xorg, how do I actually start applications, terminal? |
| [19:45:36] | laga: | anykey_: like "USA" |
| [19:45:42] | gbee: | RyeBrye: so $500 per month is chicken feed for a company like sage |
| [19:46:05] | anykey_: | laga: true, yes, but USA is not great in my eyes ;) |
| [19:46:05] | Zider: | sebrock: put the application in .xsession or something, then startx |
| [19:46:26] | laga: | anykey_: sarcasm, huh? .) |
| [19:46:33] | sebrock: | ok Zider, I will give it a go, tnx |
| [19:46:33] | anykey_: | laga: heh ;) |
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| [19:46:53] | laga: | gbee: darn, and i thought that 500$ was a joke ;) |
| [19:47:11] | mkrufky (mkrufky!n=mk@unaffiliated/mkrufky) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [19:47:48] | RyeBrye: | How many customers does Sage possibly have? |
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| [19:48:03] | RyeBrye: | $500 for each linup would be several million dollars a month |
| [19:48:18] | gbee: | laga: nope, at least that's the figure that the developers are currently working with – actual cost for providing data for all possible channels in the USA would be a lot higher – a lineup is just that, the channels available in a certain area |
| [19:48:40] | wastrel: | a lineup being a channel? |
| [19:48:46] | gbee: | but chances are they would offer a lower price for a non-commercial group |
| [19:49:05] | mkrufky: | maybe we should get chanserv or mythlogbot to tell people as they join, "yeah yeah, we know zap2it is discontinued as of 9/1/07 — we dont have a solution yet" ... or something to that effect |
| [19:49:18] | NightMonkey: | Any euro-citizens here? What's your experience with your xmltv grabbers – data consistency, error rate, channel/provider coverage, etc etc? |
| [19:49:32] | NightMonkey: | mkrufky: Topic change would do the trick. |
| [19:49:34] | Zider: | as in europa? |
| [19:49:36] | laga: | don't start me bitching. |
| [19:49:39] | mkrufky: | ...or that |
| [19:49:44] | gbee: | wastrel: I took a lineup to mean a group of channels, but it may mean a single channel – it's more of a US term so the exact definition isn't clear to me |
| [19:49:45] | Zider: | laga: *starts* |
| [19:49:46] | Zider: | ;P |
| [19:49:53] | RyeBrye: | Yeah – a lineup is based on provider |
| [19:50:13] | RyeBrye: | For instance, my local cablelco has 4 lineups available... basic, expanded basic, digital, and digital premium |
| [19:50:18] | RyeBrye: | each lineup has a group of channels in it |
| [19:50:26] | mtnbkr-laptop: | NightMonkey: agreed. I read the topic before I posted about zap2it to see if it was mentioned |
| [19:50:40] | gbee: | NightMonkey: xmltv is excellant here, at least as good as zap2it, but then the major data provider works with xmltv and not against it |
| [19:50:43] | mkrufky: | an op has to do it |
| [19:50:48] | gpd: | I seem to be in a situation where I have MythTV, gmediaserver and mpd all running to do what I want: does this seem excessive? |
| [19:51:05] | NightMonkey: | zap2it is a huge issue, gonna have lots of people coming in screaming the sky is falling. |
| [19:51:24] | NightMonkey: | gbee: Where are you located? |
| [19:51:28] | Zider: | *looks outside* no it's not! |
| [19:51:31] | RyeBrye: | I wonder – will it stop giving data out past Sept 1, or will it stop working on sept 1 with 13 more days of data |
| [19:51:35] | gbee: | gpd: maybe what you want to do is excessive ;) |
| [19:51:42] | gbee: | NightMonkey: England |
| [19:52:10] | NightMonkey: | gbee: Thanks for the info. |
| [19:52:28] | gpd: | I just want music anywhere(tm) |
| [19:52:54] | laga: | is anyone here using mythweb from svn trunk? how does mythmusic work there? can you stream your mp3s? |
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| [19:52:59] | gbee: | in several countries the xmltv devs have a special arrangement with the data source – like the one with zap2it only with no subscriptions involved |
| [19:53:06] | mkrufky: | RyeBrye: i also wonder what happens to people whose subscriptions expire AFTER sept 1st ... " DataDirect Status: Your subscription expires on 09/19/2007 01:55:48 AM" |
| [19:53:16] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, mine expires on Sept 19th also |
| [19:53:21] | gbee: | elsewhere they are forced to scrape websites for the data, so reliability, quality etc is reduced |
| [19:53:23] | RyeBrye: | or around there sometime |
| [19:53:23] | NightMonkey: | gpd: At least in my experience, mpd barely uses any resources (and that's on an under-powered server). |
| [19:53:45] | mkrufky: | i renewed on monday, right before the announcement was made |
| [19:53:53] | gbee: | laga: yes, you can stream music from mythweb in trunk |
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| [19:54:54] | laga: | gbee: nifty |
| [19:55:15] | laga: | gbee: svn trunk makes life at the gf's place much easier :) |
| [19:55:23] | gpd: | NightMonkey: ya, except on boot when both gmediaserver and mpd both get a bit agro |
| [19:56:06] | NightMonkey: | gpd: Are you passing --no-create-db to mpd on startup? |
| [19:56:19] | gbee: | gpd: there is limited support for streaming music with upnp in myth – probably doesn't do everything you want though |
| [19:56:53] | gpd: | NightMonkey: no, but i'll try that thanks |
| [19:57:03] | NightMonkey: | gpd: Should stop the boot contention. |
| [19:57:30] | gpd: | gbee: myth shows up as a upnp on my Nokia N800 but doesn't seem to find the songs – despite mythweb not having a problem |
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| [19:58:06] | GreyFoxx: | gpd: What version of myth are you running ? |
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| [19:58:23] | gpd: | jinzora2 also does quite well in a different role |
| [19:58:35] | gpd: | GreyFoxx: the version that comes with Feisty |
| [19:58:46] | GreyFoxx: | ok, so like 0.20 or a 0.20-fixes |
| [19:58:58] | GreyFoxx: | and upnp music streaming was flat out busted in 0.20 |
| [19:59:03] | gpd: | 0.20-svn20070122–0.0ubuntu6 |
| [19:59:10] | GreyFoxx: | and I don't know if the fixes were backported to -fixes or not |
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| [19:59:45] | gpd: | ok, no problem at least I know i'm not doing somethign wrong: thanks |
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| [20:00:04] | ** gpd wanders off to watch Big Brother special ** | |
| [20:00:44] | GreyFoxx: | just lkooked and it doesn't appear the fixes were backported for that |
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| [20:00:59] | GreyFoxx: | so I wouldn't expect mp3 streaming to work via upnp on -fixes or 0.20 |
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| [20:02:14] | RyeBrye: | I emailed the Executive Director of New Media and International Sales at TMS to ask about a balpark for the licensing of data for MythTV – he's out of the office until Monday June 25th |
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| [20:02:52] | NightMonkey: | RyeBrye: Hope you were nice. ;) |
| [20:02:57] | RyeBrye: | I was nice :) |
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| [20:03:09] | GreyFoxx: | RyeBrye: We know and are reaching out to others |
| [20:03:13] | RyeBrye: | Ok |
| [20:03:17] | NightMonkey: | I hope the reconsider, or make some better arrangement for everyone. |
| [20:03:26] | NightMonkey: | the=they |
| [20:03:26] | RyeBrye: | I'll leave it up to you guys then GreyFoxx |
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| [20:05:16] | sphery: | Beautiful discussion on the -users list... Everyone is so concerned with getting their 2 cents in that they're not reading any other messages... |
| [20:05:28] | GreyFoxx: | yeah |
| [20:06:34] | directhex: | sphery, sounds like some kind of mailing list discussion! |
| [20:07:37] | sphery: | Yeah. Everyone is "helping" fix the DataDirect listings disappearance. |
| [20:08:16] | NightMonkey: | Whoah, hadn't looked at the list. It is as if 1000 people screamed, and were suddenly... |
| [20:08:29] | GreyFoxx: | sphery: Yeah, a little nuts :) |
| [20:09:02] | GreyFoxx: | Too bad zap2it didn't wait a few days to announce it publically so we could have had a chance to get some info in palce first :) |
| [20:09:04] | GreyFoxx: | but oh well |
| [20:09:23] | sphery: | It's just annoying that it's been established (without citation, though) that DataDirect employs staff editors to write/modify show descriptions, thereby constituting original content. |
| [20:09:41] | sphery: | But people are nit-picking the "copyrighted data" or "factual data" thing... |
| [20:09:55] | GreyFoxx: | yeah, focusing on the wrong stuff |
| [20:10:02] | sphery: | And, about 10 other examples "facts" contradicting other "facts". |
| [20:10:06] | laga: | people should shut up |
| [20:10:12] | Beirdo: | heh |
| [20:10:30] | TSCHAKWerk: | dude, it was a miracle that DataDirect existed in the FIRST place |
| [20:10:31] | sphery: | I definitely agree. I wish TMS had informed you all (the devs), then waited a month before informing users at large. |
| [20:10:51] | TSCHAKWerk: | it's MUCH harder to solve business/logistics problems than it is to solve programmatic and technical concerns. |
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| [20:11:23] | sphery: | I agree, and feel privileged to have gotten to use the service, but I'm also certain "we" will find a solution. |
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| [20:12:15] | sphery: | Funny thing is that changing listings providers often results in a clean slate for dup matching... :) |
| [20:12:41] | TSCHAKWerk: | yeah, FCUK. |
| [20:12:42] | laga: | i change listing providers rather often and it's really annoying |
| [20:12:52] | sphery: | If we don't end up using TMS's data (with programid's), I can just imaging the "Myth is broken..." threads on the list. |
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| [20:13:26] | laga: | heh |
| [20:13:29] | TSCHAKWerk: | let the stupid people yammer... |
| [20:13:32] | laga: | zdzisekg is right. |
| [20:13:42] | sphery: | (not recommending anyone post that to the already annoying thread on the -users list, because until we know what data we'll be using, it's not worth stirring the pot). |
| [20:14:35] | laga: | sphery: why not stir the pot? it's just useless discussion anyways |
| [20:14:53] | ** sphery knew he shouldn't say anything... ** | |
| [20:15:25] | laga: | i read the first few messages and some on page four and i stopped when some people pretended to be lawyers... |
| [20:15:39] | sphery: | heh. I guess there would be some entertainment value in reading all the posts that provide technical solutions to the dup matching problem (that's not yet a problem)... |
| [20:16:09] | laga: | sphery: "let's make a database where users enter duplicates manually" |
| [20:16:09] | sphery: | Perhaps if we stir the pot enough, we can just spend our TV time reading those posts after our Myth boxes become useless. :) |
| [20:16:16] | laga: | "oh yes, i'd volunteer" |
| [20:16:19] | laga: | sphery: heh :) |
| [20:16:22] | sphery: | rotfl |
| [20:16:44] | sphery: | All we need is a P2P system! |
| [20:16:59] | jams: | ugh it's even annoying when said is jest |
| [20:17:04] | sphery: | Then as soon as the first person watches a show, they can mark it as a duplicate... |
| [20:17:07] | Beirdo: | oh yeah, THAT will be good for the community's image :) |
| [20:17:54] | sphery: | I still don't get the proposals for P2P commflagging, etc. we've seen on the lists... |
| [20:18:18] | Beirdo: | heh, no kidding. I would think long and hard before allowing that through my firewall anyways |
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| [20:18:30] | sphery: | yeah |
| [20:18:35] | GreyFoxx: | well, plus it assumes a heck of a lot |
| [20:18:35] | Beirdo: | all it takes is ONE malicious luser |
| [20:18:43] | Beirdo: | and one tiny bug |
| [20:18:56] | GreyFoxx: | like syncronis clocks, same version of a show, no slight delay "on the west cost" etc etc |
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| [20:19:05] | Beirdo: | heh, yeah |
| [20:19:20] | GreyFoxx: | no cutting in of the news |
| [20:19:24] | laga: | Beirdo: you could establish a web of trust! |
| [20:19:25] | GreyFoxx: | It's silly :) |
| [20:19:46] | Beirdo: | no president cutting into the middle of a show... no NFL preempting Simpsons in some markets, etc |
| [20:19:51] | sphery: | Hey, that's a good point... The west-coast users would get the benefit of the east-coasters having already marked an episode as a dup before it's aired... |
| [20:19:55] | sphery: | I may have to move. |
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| [20:22:05] | sphery: | D'oh. Someone actually said P2P on the list... |
| [20:22:43] | jams: | sphery- yeah several times |
| [20:25:04] | sphery: | I just noticed it for the first time in the DataDirect thread. |
| [20:26:23] | geoffeg: | Is there some way to get mythtv to auto-skip commercials? I don't want it to gen a cut list and then later remove the commercials from the mpeg.. I just want to not have to push end every time. |
| [20:26:30] | mkrufky: | i dont want to miss my favorite show just because some user threw false data into the mix! |
| [20:27:04] | jams: | sphery- btw my comment was not directed at you. I'm just tired of p2p being the solution to everything |
| [20:27:08] | mkrufky: | geoffeg: hit M for menu (during playback) and then go to commercial skipping, then select enable |
| [20:27:14] | sphery: | geoffeg: Automatically Skip Commercials in mythfrontend settings |
| [20:27:24] | mkrufky: | geoffeg: and in the playback setup, you can set that permanently |
| [20:27:34] | geoffeg: | sphery: i wasn't sure that would edit the mpeg stream.. thanks |
| [20:27:39] | mkrufky: | (what sphery said) |
| [20:27:43] | geoffeg: | yep, thanks |
| [20:27:51] | sphery: | No editing involved. |
| [20:27:55] | sphery: | Just skips during playback. |
| [20:28:12] | sphery: | Can set it to "Automatically skip" or "Notify, but do not skip" |
| [20:28:45] | sphery: | I use the latter because with auto-skip, it seems like there's something missing in between (i.e. you feel the "wind down" and "wind up", but you don't know why). |
| [20:29:06] | sphery: | Besides, it lets me know when to go to the kitchen to get a snack. :) |
| [20:32:03] | geoffeg: | yea, once in a while the commercial flagging thing doesn't work right either |
| [20:32:37] | sphery: | Right. Also nice since with the auto-skip, you wouldn't be informed that it just skipped a section of your show. |
| [20:33:01] | sphery: | (Even the author of the commflagging/commskipping code uses Notify) |
| [20:33:07] | geoffeg: | oh, with auto-skip the status bar or something doesn't come up that lets you know it's skipped? |
| [20:33:17] | sphery: | No. Only with Notify. |
| [20:33:31] | geoffeg: | aww, with-auto skip it should do the "skipped 4:54" or whatever |
| [20:33:34] | sphery: | That's why you feel something happening, but you don't know why... |
| [20:33:49] | geoffeg: | the total time it skipped is how i tell if it fucked up |
| [20:33:57] | sphery: | With Notify, it's "Commercial break: 4:54" (or something). |
| [20:34:08] | geoffeg: | That'll work |
| [20:34:20] | geoffeg: | I'm just being lazy and trying to find an excuse not to grab the remote. :) |
| [20:34:23] | sphery: | Also nice when you see "Commercial break: 12:45" and know that you should use jump forward instead of skip commercial. |
| [20:35:04] | sphery: | I have no clue what key says to skip to the next commercial break marker (or skip to the previous one), but I could point them out on my remote. :) |
| [20:35:44] | geoffeg: | home and end, i'm using a bluetooth keyboard as the remote now sinec i haven't had the time to get an IR receiver built |
| [20:35:45] | sphery: | End or Z is next |
| [20:35:57] | sphery: | Yeah (Home or Q for prev) |
| [20:36:42] | sphery: | Funny thing is that actually, it turns out I couldn't point them out on my remote. I actually had to pick it up and pretend to skip a break to figure it out... |
| [20:36:45] | sphery: | Habits. :) |
| [20:37:15] | geoffeg: | Yea, I'm like that with my passwords. If someone tried to force me to tell them my password I'd need a keyboard. :) |
| [20:38:02] | sphery: | Yeah. And with vi. I couldn't tell you how to use the editor, but my fingers know... |
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| [20:43:14] | hquiller: | How much of a reduction in CPU usage might I see by switching from Gnome to something like FluxBox? |
| [20:43:52] | sphery: | Probably none in (average) CPU usage, but you would see a pretty useful decrease in RAM usage. |
| [20:44:03] | sphery: | Might prevent swapping, which could improve performance. |
| [20:44:11] | sphery: | I use Flux (and love it). |
| [20:44:22] | hquiller: | my frontend now barely uses a swap |
| [20:44:33] | sphery: | It has an incremental memory cost of about 1M. RatPoison has an incremental cost of about 300KiB |
| [20:44:52] | hquiller: | and the system has 2gb of ram... so it probably won't make much difference |
| [20:45:06] | sphery: | Right. Not worth it for the RAM benefits. |
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| [20:45:45] | hquiller: | should 2.4ghz and 2gb ram be enough to smoothly play back 720p? |
| [20:46:12] | hquiller: | (i can't determine if the skipping is due to hardware or the few movie files being corrupt, etc) |
| [20:46:43] | sphery: | What 2.4GHz? |
| [20:46:53] | sphery: | Pentium 4 (which would be a bit underpowered) |
| [20:46:53] | hquiller: | Athlon 64 |
| [20:47:39] | sphery: | And that's truly 2.4GHz, like an Athlon X2 4800+ (or whatever the 2.4GHz single core is)? |
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| [20:47:46] | sphery: | I.e. not a 2400+ or something? |
| [20:47:48] | de-v: | omg zap2it.. |
| [20:48:09] | hquiller: | I think it's a Athlon 3000+ XP |
| [20:48:20] | sphery: | de-v: Don't worry. Many people (including devs) are working the issue. |
| [20:48:25] | hquiller: | or 3200+ |
| [20:48:26] | de-v: | so you guys see the zap2it labs discontinuing notice? heh |
| [20:48:28] | hquiller: | somewhere around there |
| [20:48:34] | de-v: | sphery: nice to know, thanks |
| [20:48:36] | laga: | i'm in your zap2its. breaking ur epgs |
| [20:48:47] | de-v: | steeleen my listings! |
| [20:48:54] | sphery: | hquiller: I have an X2 4800+ that works fine (and it's just a dual-core 2.4GHz) |
| [20:49:18] | hquiller: | sphery: well that's twice my power! |
| [20:49:34] | sphery: | And, since Myth's decoding is currently using single-threaded libav*, theoretically, yours should work. |
| [20:49:47] | hquiller: | alright. |
| [20:50:05] | sphery: | If you have an NVIDIA card, make sure you enable the option "UseEvents" in the X config file. |
| [20:50:14] | hquiller: | another element to the situation... the files that skip are all MKV (mpeg4/avc) played through vlc |
| [20:50:26] | sphery: | Oh. That's a whole other question. |
| [20:50:34] | sphery: | Sorry. I was assuming 720p MPEG-2. |
| [20:50:43] | sphery: | That may not be possible on that proc |
| [20:50:45] | hquiller: | Yea, it's a strange format. |
| [20:50:59] | sphery: | The H.264 (MPEG-4 AVC) being the sticky point. |
| [20:51:03] | hquiller: | and I can't find any way to extract avc from an mkv, so i'm stuck with it for now |
| [20:51:13] | hquiller: | where do i put "UseEvents" ? |
| [20:51:17] | hquiller: | it's not in my Xorg now |
| [20:51:24] | sphery: | I'd recommend using something other than the internal player for mkv |
| [20:51:39] | hquiller: | internal barely works, mostly it crashes |
| [20:51:42] | hquiller: | i'm using vlc now |
| [20:52:17] | sphery: | http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Configuring_HDTV#NVIDIA for UseEvents |
| [20:52:29] | sphery: | That should lower your CPU usage. |
| [20:52:56] | sphery: | Also, just to give you hope, there has been a /lot/ of effort in ffmpeg's libs toward optimizing H.264 playback |
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| [20:53:23] | sphery: | A more current (probably development) version might be able to do it. |
| [20:53:42] | sphery: | (Note that you can't upgrade the ffmpeg libs used by Myth, but if you're not using Internal...) |
| [20:54:48] | hquiller: | great, now it locked up... |
| [20:55:04] | hquiller: | how can i kill X over ssh (i know the psid but don't know the command to kill it) |
| [20:55:23] | JoeyJoeJo: | hquiller: kill |
| [20:55:24] | sphery: | And, there's actually effort at making them multithreaded (at least for MPEG-2 and H.264), so "soon" you'll likely be able to decode it (and would almost definitely be able to do so with a dual-core). |
| [20:55:30] | sphery: | might need "kill -9" |
| [20:55:32] | timekllr: | hquiller: kill <pid> |
| [20:55:43] | simcop2387-tv: | ok heres the problem i'm having now.. |
| [20:55:49] | hquiller: | thought so... not responding. |
| [20:55:59] | sphery: | hquiller: kill -9 <pid> |
| [20:56:00] | jc (jc!n=jeancf@ip-62-235-207-142.dsl.scarlet.be) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [20:56:12] | hquiller: | X is using 95% |
| [20:56:16] | sphery: | TERM probably won't work. You'd need the KILL signal (-9) |
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| [20:56:44] | hquiller: | kill isn't doing anything... |
| [20:56:50] | hquiller: | oh, now at 99.7% |
| [20:56:57] | RyeBrye: | you can try to telinit to a lower runlevel |
| [20:57:01] | RyeBrye: | telinit 3 |
| [20:57:06] | superdug: | is there an alternative to http://labs.zap2it.com/ztvws/ztvws_login/1,1059,TMS01-1,00.html ? |
| [20:57:20] | laga: | superdug: the devs are working on uit |
| [20:57:26] | laga: | s/uit/it/ |
| [20:57:47] | superdug: | laga: excellent news ... figured I'd just inquire |
| [20:57:55] | hquiller: | crashed! |
| [20:58:02] | sphery: | That's a good way to stop it. |
| [20:58:11] | hquiller: | i suppose |
| [20:58:15] | hquiller: | hold on a sec--- |
| [20:58:55] | hquiller: | sphery: can i use the dev version of ffmpeg with vlc? |
| [20:59:16] | hquiller: | just install the dev version of ffmpeg and vlc will use that? |
| [20:59:30] | sphery: | If you can get it and vlc compiled :) |
| [20:59:42] | hquiller: | oh, i can try |
| [20:59:43] | sphery: | You might need to recompile VLC to get the performance gains. I don't know. |
| [20:59:51] | sphery: | What distro are you using? |
| [20:59:58] | sphery: | There may be packages for you. |
| [21:00:27] | hquiller: | Ubuntu Feisty |
| [21:00:45] | sphery: | superdug: Too early for technical help. Currently, they're exploring options. |
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| [21:02:09] | sphery: | hquiller: It's also possible that the performance benefits haven't even made it into the ffmpeg tree, yet, so you might even need patches from the ffmpeg lists. I don't follow its development. |
| [21:02:31] | sphery: | In other words, I would recommend against an upgrade unless there are packages, because it's quite possible it won't help, anyway. |
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| [21:02:36] | scurb: | anyone familiar with opening an old xbox :)? |
| [21:02:41] | sphery: | But, I don't know Ubuntu, so... |
| [21:02:48] | sphery: | scurb: physically opening? |
| [21:02:55] | scurb: | sphery, yes ;) |
| [21:03:03] | sphery: | From what I understand, there are "friction" tabs all around the case. |
| [21:03:32] | sphery: | (like hooks behind the plastic and connected to one side and hooking onto the other side) |
| [21:03:35] | scurb: | but.. it has been opened.. |
| [21:03:42] | scurb: | aha ok |
| [21:03:58] | sphery: | You just need to apply pressure to the right places (to bend the plastic), but not too much pressure (or you can break the plastic) |
| [21:04:20] | sphery: | I wonder if Bunnie posted that info from his book on the 'net... |
| [21:05:21] | sphery: | There's a nice description in the book described at http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7112 , but I don't know if that part's available online. |
| [21:05:22] | NightMonkey: | Doh, zap2it hit slashdot. |
| [21:05:36] | sphery: | I'm sure there are lots of sites, though, that provide instructions. |
| [21:05:37] | de-v: | heh yeah |
| [21:05:43] | mtnbkr-laptop: | NightMonkey: heh finally. |
| [21:05:50] | de-v: | nightmonkey: gonna have a few billion people in here asking about options now |
| [21:05:53] | hquiller: | sphery: do i need to restart x/gnome/mythtv for the UseEvents flag to take effect? |
| [21:05:56] | de-v: | there a wiki entry about it yet? heh |
| [21:06:06] | NightMonkey: | Quick, change the topic. Stop the madness. |
| [21:06:18] | Dagmar: | YHou need to restart X, just like with any change you make to X's config file |
| [21:06:22] | hquiller: | figured |
| [21:06:22] | de-v: | the topic...changes? |
| [21:06:24] | de-v: | :P |
| [21:06:48] | mtnbkr-laptop: | NightMonkey: for some strange reason today I clicked the "firehose" link and the Zap2it story was the first one I saw. |
| [21:06:48] | RyeBrye: | Maybe just say on the main page of the wiki: "As of September 1st, all development on mythTV will cease and all source code and binaries that have previously been released will self-destruct. Thank you" |
| [21:07:17] | de-v: | sucks about zap2it though |
| [21:07:27] | sphery: | RyeBrye: Love that idea. |
| [21:07:32] | mtnbkr-laptop: | RyeBrye: how about announcing that MythTV devs have signed a contract wit Microsoft to keep it's users from being sued? lol |
| [21:07:38] | RyeBrye: | :) |
| [21:07:46] | sphery: | Clear out the riff-raff. |
| [21:08:12] | Dagmar: | Holy crap good news on Slashdot.... Manhunt 2 got rated AO |
| [21:08:23] | RyeBrye: | I don't see the zap2it on slashdot |
| [21:08:42] | clever: | 30962 mythtv 15 0 1060m 347m 960 S 0.7 68.9 1:23.36 mythwelcome |
| [21:08:42] | clever: | PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND |
| [21:08:42] | clever: | mythwelcome LEAKS |
| [21:08:44] | clever: | :p |
| [21:08:46] | clever: | my thought is the fact that its in a blocking mode when the frontend is open |
| [21:08:48] | clever: | causing its connection to the backend to back up |
| [21:09:09] | de-v: | RyeBrye – http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/20/1920224 |
| [21:09:30] | de-v: | but http://labs.zap2it.com has its official statement |
| [21:09:34] | de-v: | so its not bs ;\ |
| [21:11:04] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, I've seen the official one |
| [21:11:14] | RyeBrye: | I'm the one who wrote to Zap2It and suggested they kill the service |
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| [21:11:19] | RyeBrye: | I hate free stuff |
| [21:11:25] | de-v: | awesome, thanks alot |
| [21:11:29] | RyeBrye: | j/k :) |
| [21:11:43] | sphery: | I wrote to them to say that they're making it hard for me to resell the data by allowing only three lineups... |
| [21:12:01] | sphery: | I had to create about 500 accounts |
| [21:12:20] | sphery: | (also j/k :) |
| [21:12:41] | tyce: | WTF is going to happen now?!?!?!?! |
| [21:12:51] | laga: | OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD |
| [21:12:55] | laga: | people, get fscking over it |
| [21:13:16] | sphery: | It sounds like MythTV will be changing its name to MythNoTV |
| [21:13:49] | de-v: | back to screen scraping :) |
| [21:13:54] | NightMonkey: | "NonTV"? |
| [21:13:55] | ** sphery thinks a good time to ask, "What's going to happen now?" is about 2 weeks before Sept 1. ** | |
| [21:13:56] | clever: | oops forgot |
| [21:14:01] | clever: | that major leak mythwelcome had |
| [21:14:06] | clever: | harmed my irc connection:P |
| [21:14:26] | mkrufky: | RyeBrye: refresh your page... /. has zap2it as 2nd article from the top |
| [21:14:38] | tyce: | why, so we can wait till the last minute to do something about it? |
| [21:15:11] | sphery: | tyce: No, because people are doing something about it, but all the "What's happening" is making it hard to get things done. |
| [21:15:22] | sphery: | If the devs need help, they'll ask for help. |
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| [21:16:01] | mkrufky: | seriously, we need a "calm yourself" announcement in the channel topic, or something |
| [21:16:08] | sphery: | definitely |
| [21:16:15] | sphery: | Wonder if Beirdo could put one it |
| [21:16:20] | de-v: | a little "whats happening?" is not bad in the first couple days of the announcement |
| [21:16:37] | laga: | sphery, mkrufky: we ahd a "don't be a dumbass" statement in there |
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| [21:16:44] | sphery: | Then, the most common response on both #mythtv and #mythtv-users will be, "/topic" |
| [21:16:45] | de-v: | an official reply on mythtv.org or even in the wiki is a good idea too |
| [21:16:46] | tyce: | or at least a statement from MythTV saying they are working on a solution.... Had I known people were working on something I wouldn't have posted. |
| [21:17:12] | mkrufky: | laga: i dont think "dont be a dumbass" covers it this time....... |
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| [21:17:16] | Beirdo: | if there was an official announcement like de-v says, we could easily link to it in the topic |
| [21:17:23] | sphery: | de-v: They will be putting one on the main web site, but they've been busy today (during business hours) contacting businesses to explore options... |
| [21:17:36] | RyeBrye: | WTF? SOme guy on the forum says that TiVo gets guide data by optical stuff in a discovery channel feed... |
| [21:17:40] | laga: | Beirdo: word is that an official announcement will come today |
| [21:17:40] | sphery: | It should be up there later today. |
| [21:17:56] | de-v: | laga: cool. |
| [21:18:03] | Beirdo: | good enough |
| [21:18:18] | Beirdo: | once its there, we'll add the link to the topic |
| [21:18:21] | sphery: | RyeBrye: Yeah. Found that confusing. And especially the part about, "like on the Discovery channel" (or whatever). |
| [21:18:32] | sphery: | Wouldn't they have discovery channel on the discovery channel? |
| [21:19:08] | de-v: | sphery: ive heard of that before, that its on pbs too, or a pbs-like channel. the free cable channel in your area for instance. that its a signal on top of the regular that contains guide data |
| [21:19:22] | de-v: | my guess would be its not a function of mythtv because not all capture methods support it |
| [21:19:25] | sphery: | That's EIT |
| [21:19:38] | sphery: | This guy said he could see boxes flashing on and off. |
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| [21:19:42] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v Chutt | |
| [21:19:46] | de-v: | see the lights maaannn?!?! :) |
| [21:19:49] | laga: | sphery: VBI? |
| [21:19:50] | sphery: | And, EIT is supported. |
| [21:20:12] | sphery: | VBI is more primitive (and just has now/next) |
| [21:20:18] | sphery: | EIT allows full guide data. |
| [21:20:31] | mkrufky: | EIT is found in digital TS , VBI is found in analog |
| [21:20:32] | sphery: | Pretty big in areas that don't have the benefit of DataDirect. |
| [21:20:44] | laga: | VBI is used to transfer all kinds of data. in germany, kabel 1 broadcasts a full-blown EPG via VBI |
| [21:20:45] | mkrufky: | (which may become the us :( ) |
| [21:20:46] | de-v: | eit and problem solved then :P |
| [21:20:58] | mkrufky: | not quite, de-v |
| [21:21:04] | de-v: | =] |
| [21:21:14] | mkrufky: | EIT only has a day or two, sometimes only a few hours worth of schedule data |
| [21:21:16] | sphery: | de-v: Problem is that EIT (at least in my area) is not worth the bandwidth it takes |
| [21:21:24] | mkrufky: | ^^ also true |
| [21:21:26] | sphery: | (and its bandwidth is negligible compared to the video) |
| [21:21:34] | mkrufky: | and it very often contains bogus data |
| [21:21:39] | sphery: | Yep. |
| [21:21:43] | mkrufky: | at least on time warner |
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| [21:21:54] | sphery: | I'm using OTA HDTV and it's useless. |
| [21:22:15] | de-v: | im hooking up hdhomerun today ;/ zippy doodah to know in 3 months i'll have to update myth ;P |
| [21:22:15] | mkrufky: | i never even tried EIT on OTA ...... does that work _anywhere_ ? |
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| [21:23:19] | sphery: | The clocks some of the stations use are also off by more than 10 minutes in my area, so it shows that some show that finished 5 minutes ago is still on. |
| [21:23:24] | sphery: | It's really pathetic. |
| [21:23:56] | Beirdo: | yeah, someone should teach the stations how to use ntpd |
| [21:24:03] | sphery: | no joke. |
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| [21:24:17] | clever: | i find shows on friday night on a certain channel |
| [21:24:20] | clever: | allways end 5mins late |
| [21:24:27] | clever: | for just a certain time period |
| [21:24:36] | planktonboy: | hi guys |
| [21:24:44] | sphery: | mkrufky: They only have the now/next part of it (no long-term, i.e. 2-day, guide) around here. |
| [21:24:45] | Beirdo: | yeah, some stations pack in more commercials in "important" shows that way |
| [21:24:49] | RyeBrye: | I thought channels did that on purpose (ending late / starting early) to screw with DVRs |
| [21:24:50] | clever: | to handle it i had to set half my record rules to go 10mins past the scheduled time |
| [21:25:15] | Beirdo: | RyeBrye, not sure that's their motivation, but it has that effect. |
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| [21:25:33] | Beirdo: | I think their motivation is more commercial income during popular shows |
| [21:25:43] | planktonboy: | any of you have advice on any hifi or multimedia system to use with mythtv |
| [21:25:47] | clever: | but if the show starts 5mins late and ends 5mins late |
| [21:25:49] | Dagmar: | Oh geez. |
| [21:25:54] | clever: | they dont realy get any more com time:P |
| [21:26:02] | mkrufky: | sphery: my STB has scheduling info for weeks in advance...... i wish we could RE that data from time warner and use that instead of traditional EIT |
| [21:26:03] | Dagmar: | Never search Google for files ending in a specific extention, like .csv |
| [21:26:06] | planktonboy: | I need to get something sorted for my mother |
| [21:26:06] | clever: | all they did was shift the whole thing by 5mins |
| [21:26:10] | Beirdo: | clever, yeah, they did in a show earlier that DIDN'T start 5 minutes late |
| [21:26:38] | Beirdo: | at least in cases I've seen |
| [21:26:42] | RyeBrye: | For dupe matching, would there be the possibility to come up with some kind of "fuzzy hash" for a show – that would rely on the content of the show and not the content of the guide data? |
| [21:26:42] | mkrufky: | gosh... and when Bush gets up to speak during primetime, all eit data is wrong |
| [21:26:50] | scurb: | bah.. hdd error says my chip when booting up with a newly inserted disk :/ |
| [21:26:50] | Beirdo: | then they realign in the middle of the night when not many people watch |
| [21:27:06] | clever: | RyeBrye: ive thought of that before based on the closed captioning |
| [21:27:14] | RyeBrye: | not the entire show, but perhaps a certain portion of it... – yeah CC data if you are encoding it woudl be easiest |
| [21:27:29] | Beirdo: | CC is so often non-existant or just plain crap |
| [21:27:29] | clever: | but thats mixed into the video stream on dist |
| [21:27:31] | clever: | disc* |
| [21:27:33] | planktonboy: | was looking at the Bose 5.1 systems but thought you guys might know something that was better value, as the Bose seem a bit pricey for what they are |
| [21:27:51] | clever: | so it would have to go over several gig of data to compare with existing stuff |
| [21:28:08] | Beirdo: | anyways... I think I need a nap :) |
| [21:28:09] | RyeBrye: | I suppose hashing the comflag times of a show would be a start... |
| [21:28:26] | RyeBrye: | Of course – then the problem is it records the dupe before deleting it |
| [21:28:31] | clever: | they could shift the sizes of the comercials though |
| [21:28:36] | clever: | yeah |
| [21:28:38] | RyeBrye: | hmm... true |
| [21:28:43] | clever: | and youll miss something you could have recorded then |
| [21:29:00] | clever: | but i know that show x airs the same thing twice every day on channel y |
| [21:29:11] | clever: | so i just manualy dont record half of it every so often |
| [21:29:28] | mkrufky: | but without datadirect, YOU might know that, but your backend prob wont |
| [21:29:36] | clever: | yeah |
| [21:29:42] | clever: | i have zap2it |
| [21:29:48] | clever: | but the info isnt there for all channels |
| [21:29:49] | mkrufky: | zap2it, thats what i meant |
| [21:29:57] | clever: | some channels just say its show x |
| [21:30:01] | clever: | others say its epusode y of x |
| [21:30:27] | mkrufky: | i had to tweak my listings.... now every channel gets populated |
| [21:30:48] | mkrufky: | (you can tweak the listings using channel setup in mythweb) |
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| [21:32:00] | clever: | would it be posible to edit the 'subtitle' of a show in the listing before it airs? |
| [21:32:13] | clever: | so i could manualy update it based on what comercials say is up tomorow |
| [21:32:58] | mkrufky: | thats not what i meant by channel listings..... . but yes, there is a way to edit the subtitle of a show AFTER it has already been recorded |
| [21:33:08] | mkrufky: | (that still doesnt answer your question — i know) |
| [21:33:13] | clever: | yeah but then its a bit late for dup detection |
| [21:33:23] | clever: | since the second airing doesnt have that subtitle and will still record |
| [21:33:27] | mkrufky: | i dont think any of the above ideas will work for dup protection |
| [21:33:40] | mkrufky: | i am confident that a solution wilkl be worked out with zap2it, one way or another |
| [21:33:46] | mkrufky: | (lets just hope so) |
| [21:33:56] | mkrufky: | and i am willing to pay |
| [21:34:07] | clever: | i have a rule to just record malcolm in the middle on any channel |
| [21:34:12] | clever: | channel 43 has full data for it |
| [21:34:17] | clever: | 20 has it sometimes |
| [21:34:23] | clever: | 20 airs the same show twice a night |
| [21:34:46] | RyeBrye: | are there really that many malcom in the middle episodes that you dn't have the full set yet? |
| [21:34:53] | clever: | another way to kinda fix it is record the same timeslot on 20 every day |
| [21:34:54] | mkrufky: | lol |
| [21:35:00] | clever: | and record it anytime on 43 |
| [21:35:28] | clever: | and i am actualy starting to see shows not recording because they have allready been hit before:P |
| [21:35:29] | mkrufky: | i think i'll have a better life if i watch some less tv, anyway :-P |
| [21:36:00] | clever: | im defraging my lvm atm also |
| [21:36:17] | clever: | by looking at the /etc/lvm/backup/vgname file i can see how fragmented the lv's are |
| [21:36:18] | mkrufky: | what utility do you use for that? |
| [21:36:23] | clever: | and with some complex pvmove commands |
| [21:36:26] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, if I can't easily record my TV epsodes and remove the commercials myself, there are other ways to get them |
| [21:36:28] | clever: | i can manualy shuffle the PE's about |
| [21:36:48] | clever: | once you understand it all you can manualy shuffle 100–200pe's arround at a time till its defraged |
| [21:37:15] | clever: | not shure how safe it is |
| [21:37:23] | clever: | but it helps after resizing lv's ALOT |
| [21:37:31] | clever: | my mythtv lv is in 30 peices |
| [21:37:40] | RyeBrye: | That's huge... |
| [21:37:45] | RyeBrye: | YOu could just use storage groups now :) |
| [21:37:50] | clever: | lol |
| [21:37:55] | clever: | last time i tryed that it had bugs |
| [21:38:06] | clever: | group 1 was overflowing and not expiring its data |
| [21:38:09] | fryfrog: | xfs has xfs_fsr |
| [21:38:12] | clever: | and group2 had room |
| [21:38:16] | fryfrog: | though that has nothing to do with lvm |
| [21:38:19] | clever: | and xfs cant shrink |
| [21:38:31] | fryfrog: | oz noz! |
| [21:38:31] | clever: | the lv is in 28 parts now:) |
| [21:39:07] | clever: | moving another 50 pe's from 1 pv to another |
| [21:39:13] | clever: | 3 pv's |
| [21:40:11] | clever: | when i look in /etc/lvm/backup/mainvg i can see it says under mainlv segment_count = 29 |
| [21:40:25] | clever: | it then goes on to list the pe size and what pv each segment is at and where it starts in that pv |
| [21:40:44] | clever: | first 2 segments are 3gig and 8gig |
| [21:41:06] | hquiller: | sphery, you still here? |
| [21:41:23] | sphery: | yeah |
| [21:41:53] | hquiller: | thanks :) i think i've dropped the cpu usage down about 5–10% |
| [21:42:02] | hquiller: | so we'll see if that makes things more stable |
| [21:42:19] | hquiller: | i'm builing a new frontend for HD, though-- core duo around 2ghz a good target? |
| [21:42:43] | mkrufky: | hquiller: you need a nice graphics card, most importantly |
| [21:42:57] | hquiller: | nvidia what? 6200? |
| [21:43:06] | mkrufky: | core duo 2Ghz is more than enough, if you've got a 6200 |
| [21:43:15] | de-v: | 5200 is a popular card i believe, component out |
| [21:43:29] | mkrufky: | i have a 5200 with dvi out, not component |
| [21:43:33] | sphery: | hquiller: I'm a fan of a /lot/ of power for the CPU. |
| [21:43:45] | hquiller: | not worrying about 1080p for now... thankfully. |
| [21:43:46] | mkrufky: | and i have a dvi-> hdmi adapter, running into my flat panel |
| [21:43:50] | de-v: | which nv card has component out |
| [21:43:53] | de-v: | i ferget |
| [21:43:55] | sphery: | I have an Athlon X2 4800+ and can't do as much timestretch as I would like. |
| [21:44:04] | RyeBrye: | sphery: that's good, because powerful CPU's require fans |
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| [21:44:26] | sphery: | RyeBrye: No problem if your Myth box is not in your viewing room. |
| [21:44:27] | hquiller: | mkrufky: smooth playback on 720p? |
| [21:44:42] | sphery: | My frontend is the loudest computer I own (of my 11 computers + 1 laptop) |
| [21:44:56] | clever: | my backend is the loudest |
| [21:44:58] | hquiller: | RyeBrye: or if it's in a room where it's always playing sound if people are present |
| [21:45:00] | RyeBrye: | sphery: I don't care about the fan noise – I was just commenting on how you said you were a fan of pwerful CPU's |
| [21:45:04] | de-v: | my masterbackend is a beast heh |
| [21:45:09] | clever: | when it crashed before i put linux on there i had left it off |
| [21:45:09] | sphery: | Oh. understood. |
| [21:45:10] | mkrufky: | hquiller: sure.... 720p plays VERY smoothly on my AMD XP 3200+ w/ fx5200 |
| [21:45:13] | RyeBrye: | yeah, not too funny |
| [21:45:17] | clever: | and it was a shock how little noise the room had:P |
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| [21:45:27] | clever: | was just too quite |
| [21:45:28] | mkrufky: | hquiller: but deinterlacing 1080i required more power |
| [21:45:36] | sphery: | mkrufky: hquiller is trying to do 720p MPEG-4 AVC |
| [21:45:41] | mkrufky: | hquiller: my system handles it fine.... now that i replaced the cpu fan :-) |
| [21:45:46] | hquiller: | mkrufky: interesting. i have the same specs (XP 3200+ and fx5200) |
| [21:45:54] | mkrufky: | oh!! mpeg-4 , thats a whole other story |
| [21:45:58] | de-v: | 6200 is the card that has component out |
| [21:46:10] | mkrufky: | hquiller: what a coincidence! |
| [21:46:13] | hquiller: | i only have one movie now in mpeg4 — the rest are 720 but mpeg2 |
| [21:46:26] | hquiller: | there aren't any hardware decoders for mpeg4 yet, right? |
| [21:46:28] | mkrufky: | i dont get mpeg4 streams here in nyc |
| [21:46:32] | sphery: | When NVIDIA EOL'ed the GF4 series, I had to get a new card, and I got a 6200 so it's 2 EOL's away. |
| [21:46:39] | RyeBrye: | I always laugh when I see 720p recordings squashed down to 120 megs with some hella-lossy codec |
| [21:46:41] | mkrufky: | there ARE some, but none supported under linux, afaik |
| [21:46:41] | sphery: | Who knows how long they'll support the 5200. |
| [21:46:59] | mkrufky: | i'll be sooooo pissed if that happens |
| [21:47:10] | mkrufky: | (discontinued support of 5200) |
| [21:47:18] | sphery: | s/if/when/ :) |
| [21:47:25] | RyeBrye: | I have a 6200 – I imagine they will drop support around the same time |
| [21:47:31] | de-v: | they'll continue support of the 'geforce' chipset in their drivers for a while |
| [21:47:35] | mkrufky: | hopefully they'll just opensource it instead of discontinuing it |
| [21:47:43] | mkrufky: | (while the rest of us freeze in hell) |
| [21:47:49] | sphery: | yeah. |
| [21:48:15] | sphery: | What's the new OS NVIDIA driver from freedesktop.org? |
| [21:48:31] | sphery: | Sounds like they're making a serious effort at RE the advanced features... |
| [21:48:52] | sphery: | Nouveau |
| [21:49:16] | sphery: | Beryl/Compiz are actually useful, after all (spurring development of real OS drivers for NVIDIA cards :) |
| [21:49:28] | RyeBrye: | That and flaming cubes |
| [21:49:32] | RyeBrye: | and exploding jello windows |
| [21:49:49] | de-v: | the window management in beryl is fun :) |
| [21:49:49] | RyeBrye: | who doesn't need that in an OS? |
| [21:50:08] | ** sphery thinks just because you can do something... ** | |
| [21:50:14] | sphery: | http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/ |
| [21:50:19] | de-v: | one of the more usefull features, at least for me, is that upper right corner overview window screen. just too bad you cant input into terms that way |
| [21:50:50] | sphery: | de-v: like a pager? |
| [21:50:57] | de-v: | you can select, one, bring it to the forefront, but cant interract, its lame |
| [21:51:07] | RyeBrye: | de-v, yeah, that upper-right corner thing is cool... It's like Expose on OS X |
| [21:51:08] | timekllr: | i love that feature |
| [21:51:10] | de-v: | sort of, like a full screen instant pager |
| [21:51:16] | sphery: | Oh. Got it. |
| [21:51:18] | de-v: | ryebrye: yeah exactly |
| [21:51:23] | RyeBrye: | I'm a big OS X user |
| [21:51:24] | timekllr: | but i keep hitting it whenever i go to close a window :) |
| [21:51:30] | RyeBrye: | and a big linux user |
| [21:51:41] | RyeBrye: | I hate windows though |
| [21:51:43] | de-v: | time: sloppy mouse :P you can change it from the upper right to any other corner |
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| [21:52:14] | timekllr: | i know – thought about moving it, but decided against it |
| [21:52:24] | timekllr: | and yes, i use sloppy mouse :P |
| [21:52:26] | de-v: | the window visual alt+tab is kinda cool, but overall distracting since its only useful on the current desktop |
| [21:52:37] | de-v: | i use sloppy focus too ;P |
| [21:52:40] | RyeBrye: | Yeah, true, but it is cool because it plays the video in the windows |
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| [21:52:55] | RyeBrye: | So it's cool to use when you have liveTV on one window, and jump to something else |
| [21:53:02] | timekllr: | i changed alt-tab to do the big circle of windows from all desktops |
| [21:53:31] | de-v: | one thing i use some times is the desktop zoom, like with youtube videos and stuff. people come by my laptop/desktop and the want to see it, just magnify in and they're all "ooh ahh how you do that?!" heh |
| [21:54:04] | SteveWrightNZ: | generating channels.conf makes the incorrect format file (not the format with the colons).. any hint ? |
| [21:54:11] | timekllr: | hah, never thought of using zoom to fullscreen a flash vid – will have to try that |
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| [21:54:24] | RyeBrye: | I usually browse with Opera, so I just use Opera's zoom |
| [21:54:51] | de-v: | my browser window is usually pretty small, this is just windowkey+mousewheel and bam |
| [21:54:56] | de-v: | real fast heh |
| [21:55:07] | sphery: | SteveWrightNZ: Use MythTV's channel scanner |
| [21:55:12] | de-v: | sometimes i do it to show people text windows when i dont want them coming close to me |
| [21:55:13] | de-v: | :) |
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| [21:55:17] | de-v: | like eterms and shit |
| [21:55:21] | de-v: | er stuff. soryr |
| [21:55:42] | SteveWrightNZ: | sphery: actually, I'm not using mythtv.. trying to do it with dvbscan |
| [21:56:01] | SteveWrightNZ: | sphery: hoping to tap some knowledge here |
| [21:56:28] | mkrufky: | SteveWrightNZ: you can fix the formatting yourself with sed, if you like the results, just dislike the formatting |
| [21:56:58] | SteveWrightNZ: | mkrufky: its not that I dont like it, xine, klear et al cannot read it |
| [21:57:03] | mkrufky: | SteveWrightNZ: and the authors of dvbscan hang out in #linuxtv |
| [21:57:11] | SteveWrightNZ: | ahh thank you |
| [21:57:32] | SteveWrightNZ: | ++mkrufky: helpful |
| [21:57:39] | mkrufky: | SteveWrightNZ: in the channel topic of #linuxtv has links to the mailing list and wiki |
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| [21:57:56] | SteveWrightNZ: | mkrufky: ok |
| [21:58:03] | mkrufky: | i'm usually in there too, but im getting ready to go home now |
| [21:58:14] | SteveWrightNZ: | k |
| [21:58:21] | mkrufky: | goodnight, guys |
| [21:58:47] | siXy: | i have moved the frontend and backend to a completel new ip block (this was non-optional). now despite the correct params being set in the frontned, and the access permissions changed in mysql it still tries to look for recordings on the old ip. how can i fix this? |
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| [21:59:11] | SteveWrightNZ: | mkrufky: gnite mate |
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| [22:40:36] | clever: | siXy: did you change the backend ip and masterbackend ip in mythtv-setup |
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| [22:42:13] | Milosch: | ugh |
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| [22:48:48] | mchou: | check this post out: http://pastebin.ca/579206 |
| [22:49:38] | mchou: | I think someone at zap2it posted this |
| [22:49:54] | Zider: | I was just going to ask "what's that about?" |
| [22:49:55] | Zider: | :D |
| [22:50:19] | mchou: | I still blame snapstream |
| [22:50:21] | de-v: | mchou: yes, labsadmin posted that on the forums |
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| [22:51:21] | mchou: | de-v: I wanna know what they plan to do regarding no 1 & 2 other than turning datadirect off |
| [22:51:50] | mchou: | I think all the other issues more or less, can be in the developers control |
| [22:51:51] | de-v: | mchou: have they said they were doing anything other than shutting it off? |
| [22:52:13] | mchou: | de-v: no, that's my point |
| [22:52:30] | mchou: | at least put some pressure on the abusers |
| [22:52:58] | mchou: | or block their ip addresses, for all I care |
| [22:53:55] | de-v: | sucks ;/ |
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| [22:54:47] | mchou: | I think it's unfair for zap2it to balme abusers w/o naming names |
| [22:54:56] | mchou: | blame* |
| [22:55:23] | mchou: | or at the minimum citing examples of abuse |
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| [23:00:32] | timmyhuntington: | they don't want to blame abusers because they probably view them as potential business |
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| [23:01:24] | Ruleke: | hmm seems I can crash the backend by scheduling a recording on one of my HD h264 channels... |
| [23:02:22] | Ruleke: | I think I might need to remove the recording schedule from the database or I can't start up my backend anymore ... |
| [23:02:36] | janneg: | Ruleke: it's probably PAFF encoded H.264 |
| [23:03:17] | Ruleke: | yep |
| [23:03:26] | janneg: | and the preview generator is crashing the backend |
| [23:03:27] | siXy: | ah sorted it. there are three values in the settings sql table that arent changeable through the gui once initially set. |
| [23:03:29] | Ruleke: | although... |
| [23:03:46] | Ruleke: | I have a different channel with PAFF and it did complain, but didn't crash |
| [23:03:54] | siXy: | 2 values of BackendServerIP and one of MasterServerIP |
| [23:03:56] | Ruleke: | this channel doesn't report anything about PAFF |
| [23:04:09] | janneg: | Ruleke: it doesn't crash always |
| [23:04:11] | Ruleke: | I get "Unknown NAL code: 0" etc |
| [23:04:17] | Ruleke: | this one crashes it always |
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| [23:04:25] | Ruleke: | "non existing PPS referenced" |
| [23:04:27] | Ruleke: | hmm |
| [23:04:36] | Ruleke: | what -v would be useful ? |
| [23:04:41] | Ruleke: | recording ? |
| [23:05:04] | Ruleke: | it'll crash again if I start the backend now, need to wait until this program is over I think. |
| [23:05:41] | Ruleke: | It might be a channel that isn't handled by this CAM too |
| [23:06:31] | Ruleke: | ah it seems to segfault when a web client connects to the backend |
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| [23:08:45] | Ruleke: | to generate the preview, indeed |
| [23:08:57] | Ruleke: | not fixed in HEAD either I suppose ? |
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| [23:16:14] | wastrel: | hi |
| [23:16:36] | wastrel: | so my lirc works i can see the ir buttons coming in |
| [23:16:45] | wastrel: | h00t |
| [23:16:50] | wastrel: | and it works in myth too :] |
| [23:17:00] | Ruleke: | :) |
| [23:17:02] | wastrel: | just need to get ir blaster working and we're golden |
| [23:17:13] | janneg: | Ruleke: probably not |
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| [23:18:40] | DrMitch: | i just got a PVR150, but when i modprobe ivtv, i don't get a /dev/video? ... any clue what's up? |
| [23:18:51] | SteveWrightNZ: | DrMitch: dmesg |
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| [23:24:17] | jroysdon: | The free lunch is over: http://labs.zap2it.com/ "These misuses, combined with other business factors have led to the decision to discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007. " |
| [23:27:38] | GreyFoxx: | This isn't exactly news to us :) |
| [23:29:17] | squish102: | it isnt? |
| [23:29:48] | ** GreyFoxx ponders if squish is just being sarcastic or serious ** | |
| [23:30:03] | squish102: | what are we going to do now? |
| [23:30:16] | GreyFoxx: | to early to say |
| [23:30:25] | GreyFoxx: | lots of stuff is being investigated and discussed |
| [23:31:03] | squish102: | i hope someone with more knowledge than me, can figure it out |
| [23:32:01] | DrMitch: | okay, now ivtv is giving me /dev/video, 24, and 32. but is there some setting i have to do to be able to watch tv? I keep getting: "TV Error: StartRecorder() — timed out waiting for recorder to start" |
| [23:32:50] | squish102: | GreyFoxx any idea how many ppl use mythtv in the US? |
| [23:33:10] | gentoofan23: | squish102: I do! |
| [23:33:16] | gentoofan23: | But it quite hard to tell |
| [23:33:23] | asantoni: | +1 Canada |
| [23:33:42] | gentoofan23: | You can't do hits to the download page because tons of people use distribution packages |
| [23:34:08] | wastrel: | ah crap i don't have any way to get sound out of the computer to the TV |
| [23:34:40] | GreyFoxx: | squish102: We have some info from TMS, but are waiting on final numbers of active users |
| [23:35:04] | squish102: | rough idea? |
| [23:35:07] | Ruleke (Ruleke!n=Rule@d54C0ADFB.access.telenet.be) has left #mythtv-users () | |
| [23:35:15] | squish102: | are we talking 2000 or 20000 |
| [23:35:21] | GreyFoxx: | not saying at this point until they give us official numbers |
| [23:35:50] | squish102: | ok, it was just out of interest |
| [23:37:14] | squish102: | if the reson was that other commercial products used this free service, then i think it is good that they "stop" it |
| [23:37:54] | squish102: | i was abusing it for comercial gain, i would be shitting myself about now |
| [23:39:31] | NightMonkey: | squish102: Well, maybe, but you also might have just predicted this, pocketed enough cash, and realized that there was a limit to how much TMS would put up with, and based your "business model" on that. |
| [23:40:29] | Kazan (Kazan!n=no@75-162-21-15.desm.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:40:31] | Kazan: | everybody panic :D |
| [23:40:55] | Kazan: | Zap2it goes bye bye Sept 1 |
| [23:40:56] | squish102: | well lets hope google makes it available |
| [23:41:17] | squish102: | news travels fast when it hits slashdot |
| [23:41:33] | gentoofan23 (gentoofan23!n=thomas@gentoo/contributor/gentoofan23) has left #mythtv-users () | |
| [23:42:05] | squish102: | either google or go scraping webpages again |
| [23:43:45] | NightMonkey: | If the scraping software gets modularized and featureful enough, perhaps we can even spread the scraping load among sites (round-robin style) to keep us under the radar. |
| [23:44:27] | squish102: | lol |
| [23:45:03] | squish102: | y would u need to be "under the radar", is webpage scraping illegal in any way?" |
| [23:45:12] | Kazan: | no it's not |
| [23:45:14] | timmyhuntington (timmyhuntington!n=timmyhun@cpe-74-76-35-214.nycap.res.rr.com) has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | |
| [23:45:26] | Kazan: | but something being legal has never stopped the content industry from attacking it |
| [23:45:57] | NightMonkey: | Kazan: I think that's an open question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping |
| [23:46:12] | NightMonkey: | Note that I don't think it should be illegal. |
| [23:46:43] | Kazan: | there is no REASONABLE way it could be said to be ilelgal |
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| [23:46:49] | Kazan: | all it is is you read their webpage |
| [23:47:02] | Kazan: | they have no right to tell you what you can and cannot do with the output from their httpd on your local machine |
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| [23:48:40] | Kazan: | i would be willing to pay a reasonable, small, amount to them each month for listing data |
| [23:48:48] | Kazan: | but they say they don't hhave the infrastructure... GET A LOAN |
| [23:49:16] | squish102: | Kazan, that is what makes me a little suspicious |
| [23:49:22] | Kazan: | i'm sure if they sent everyone who registered an acocunt with mythTV's reg code an email asking them if they'd be willing to pay (give them several options) and they took the results to a bank they could get a loan to pay for the hardware |
| [23:49:48] | Kazan: | the other week one of my hannels mysteriously disapeared |
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| [23:50:04] | squish102: | they could be laughing all the way to the bank, but they dont have the infrastructure !! |
| [23:50:47] | Kazan: | seriously... i bet you my old boss could build al the infrastructure they need to support 10,000,000 subscribers for $50k |
| [23:50:54] | Kazan: | imagine if those subscribers were each paying $5/month |
| [23:51:00] | Kazan: | figure the returnn on that... brb |
| [23:51:53] | squish102: | ok i dont think there are that many mythtv subscribers |
| [23:52:01] | NightMonkey: | Kazan: I don't think that MythTV has anywhere close to that many users. Or F/OSS PVRs in general, even. |
| [23:52:12] | squish102: | probably in the 100k at most |
| [23:52:25] | squish102: | actually that is probably way too many |
| [23:52:44] | squish102: | and i dunno if $5/month is too much |
| [23:53:12] | NightMonkey: | What is Tivo's monthly charge nowadays? |
| [23:53:24] | ** squish102 dusts off his unused copy of beyondtv ** | |
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| [23:55:00] | deniidil (deniidil!n=no@75-162-21-15.desm.qwest.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:55:03] | deniidil: | bah |
| [23:55:05] | deniidil: | [18:54] <Kazan> don't forget to count non-OSS app subscribers |
| [23:55:10] | deniidil: | [18:54] <Kazan> the reason why they're canning it is supposedly them |
| [23:55:13] | deniidil: | [18:54] <Kazan> and remember if they started having paid subscription accounts that would allow for usage of their service by prebuild comercial mythtv boxen |
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| [23:55:26] | deniidil: | depending on how things play out this could be The Big Win for myth in the long run |
| [23:55:38] | squish102: | hows that? |
| [23:55:38] | wastrel: | hrm now |
| [23:55:45] | Kazan (Kazan!n=no@75-162-21-15.desm.qwest.net) has quit (Nick collision from services.) | |
| [23:55:47] | deniidil is now known as kazan | |
| [23:56:07] | NightMonkey: | Tivo charges $16.95/month for 1 year plan. I think $12/mo would be reasonable, so I don't have to get a Tivo. |
| [23:56:25] | kazan: | squish102: because if they start selling listings... or if someone "partners with them" and buys listings from them and resells a a reasonable amount |
| [23:56:42] | kazan: | companies could potentially start making prebuild mythtv boxen |
| [23:56:46] | Scopeuk_: | also get the aspect you can hold em accoutnable properly if thigns are wrong and there charging you |
| [23:56:51] | kazan: | yup |
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| [23:57:36] | squish102: | so possibly the best of both worlds. a pay option and then also a free scraping option |
| [23:57:36] | kazan: | say i started "Kazan's DVRs" and i partnered with Zap2IT and paid them $x/month to get listings from them to resell. I then sell acounts to mythTV users and I make prebuild mythTV boxes... |
| [23:57:54] | squish102: | i dont see ppl trying out mythtv having to pay $12/month to test it out |
| [23:58:03] | kazan: | i bet any partnering agreements Zap2IT makes will prevent free retrans |
| [23:58:15] | kazan: | so make the first month free :P |
| [23:58:25] | ben_goodger: | why do we need this crappy service when screen-scraping Radio Times will work much better? |
| [23:58:33] | kazan: | ben_goodger: because it won't |
| [23:58:34] | squish102: | kazan gl to any1 that has installed and got mythtv working in a month :P |
| [23:58:51] | kazan: | squish102: um.. i could have myth installed and working in a day |
| [23:58:56] | ben_goodger: | squish102: knoppmyth? |
| [23:59:05] | NightMonkey: | ben_goodger: We get lots of nice data from TMS now, like unique program/episode IDs that we wouldn't get from web scraping. |
| [23:59:06] | Arkaic (Arkaic!n=arkaic@ip72-208-155-21.ph.ph.cox.net) has quit ("leaving") | |
| [23:59:10] | Scopeuk_: | no offence kazan but first tiem around? |
| [23:59:12] | kazan: | furthermore.. if someone is selling PREBUILD COMERCIAL SYSTEMS all they have to do is build the template then send in the clones :D |
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| [23:59:16] | Bouchecl: | I've installed my first one on fedora in a weekend |
| [23:59:38] | Scopeuk_: | id say a weekend is a fair estiamte |
| [23:59:57] | squish102: | i must suck... 2 years later and it still is not working right |
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