Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Monday, May 21st, 2007, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:36]

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[00:01:14]

tjcarter:

nope, found elsewhere that the USB input driver doesn't actually see some keys

[00:02:22]

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[00:05:28]

emes:

how can I switch tuners while watching live tv?

[00:05:41]

emes:

I have two tuners

[00:06:03]

Agrajag-:

i think by default it's tab?

[00:06:25]

Agrajag-:

if it's not tab, just check your keybindings

[00:06:56]

hads:

Yeah, check the wiki, but it's Y

[00:07:44]

emes:

thanks

[00:08:37]

emes:

doesn't look like mythfrontend is quite up to playing live 720p over a network

[00:08:59]

kormoc:

emes, depends on the network

[00:09:18]

emes:

no, it depends on mythfrontend, the network is gigabit :)

[00:09:37]

hads:

attitude

[00:09:50]

kormoc:

emes, if it's not the network, it's the machine hardware then, not the software :P

[00:10:10]

emes:

kormoc: I've played streaming 720p with vlc

[00:10:36]

kormoc:

I've played streaming 1080i with myth over a 100 mbit network

[00:10:38]

** kormoc shrugs **

[00:11:13]

nup:

hey, guys... does this application work good even if I dont have a tuner card and just want a rock solid HTPC?

[00:13:17]

FatherJim:

I would imagine it should. :) It's worked well for me, although I do have a tuner.

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[00:17:13]

xris:

nup: the tv stuff is sort of the best part of mythtv, but it will work well enough without it.

[00:18:49]

nup:

Its just my idea is to have a coputer connect to a 61 inch tv and just use a Remote to play my xvid and x264 files

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[00:29:04]

nup:

good idea/

[00:30:45]

cal:

nup: i really like xboxmediacenter for a low cost htpc without tuners

[00:31:06]

nup:

well at the current momeent I have a pc that I want to dedicate to this project

[00:31:20]

nup:

and I was just thinking along the lines of using Fedora mixed with myth

[00:31:22]

AngryElf:

in the "watchin recordings" screen is there a way to disable the preview playback?

[00:31:38]

hads:

There is somewhere

[00:32:03]

nup:

is this not a good idea

[00:32:33]

FatherJim:

I believe that can be disabled under the Utilities/Setup menu option.

[00:33:25]

AngryElf:

FatherJim, utilities?

[00:34:27]

hads:

It's in the frontend setup somewhere. Look through there in the appropriate sections.

[00:34:51]

nup:

What does MYTH use to playback XVID and X264

[00:34:52]

nup:

and such

[00:35:16]

kormoc:

nup, libavcodec

[00:35:23]

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[00:35:48]

nup:

cool...

[00:36:04]

nup:

so once I install myth im all set with all the codecs I would need and such

[00:36:12]

nup:

especially if I use yum

[00:36:30]

AngryElf:

hmmm, ok, got that disabled — I just recently set up a frontend on a P4 2.67G 512mb ram — and MFE is painstakingly slow to respond

[00:36:31]

FatherJim:

AngryElf: Main Menu -> Utilities & Settings -> Setup -> TV Settings -> Playback. Advance to screen #3, then disable "Display live preview of recordings" (path is 0.20

[00:36:38]

AngryElf:

any other ideas to improve performance?

[00:37:00]

kormoc:

AngryElf, disable opengl

[00:37:06]

AngryElf:

the ram isn't even close to filled up, but the CPU is constantly pegging itself

[00:37:54]

AngryElf:

kormoc, that in the menus somewhere or in the build process?

[00:38:11]

kormoc:

AngryElf, it's a setting in the frontend somewhere

[00:38:23]

kormoc:

AngryElf, under panter or the like, your options are opengl or qt

[00:39:00]

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[00:39:24]

AngryElf:

panter?

[00:39:28]

directhex:

well if the frontend builds on cygwin, it's pretty non-trivial to do so

[00:39:31]

kormoc:

*painter

[00:40:53]

AngryElf:

was that new to .20?

[00:41:03]

defendguin:

hey irw is just returning to the new line when i run it instead of waiting for input

[00:41:03]

defendguin:

lircd starts and i ca see it in the output of ps ax but after i run irw it disappears from the output of ps ax

[00:41:12]

kormoc:

AngryElf, yes

[00:41:47]

defendguin:

hmmmm

[00:41:53]

AngryElf:

:/

[00:42:01]

defendguin:

the wrong i2c modules are loading

[00:42:40]

FatherJim:

Ok, this sucks. I can't seem to fill my mythdatabase correctly. :(

[00:47:31]

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[00:48:07]

defendguin:

got it figured out

[00:48:54]

newbie0034:

Hi, I had to reboot my computer and now I cannot open my pvr-150 tuner card. I get an error message "DiSEqCDevTree, Warning: No device tree for cardid 5" I don't know why this is listed as 5. Could someone help me to debug this error?

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[00:53:27]

Tanthrix:

newbie0034: I have no idea what that error means, but try "lsmod | grep ivtv" to see if the kernel module for your card is properly loaded

[00:55:13]

Servo888:

Ok I can't for the life of me get mpeg2 decoding on my MX4000 G4... It use to work on a previous installation some time ago

[00:55:51]

newbie0034:

Tanthrix: thanks, I'll try it

[00:56:48]

Tanthrix:

newbie0034: You should see stuff like "ivtv,cs25840,tuner,tveeprom" if it is loaded. Also a good check is "mplayer /dev/video0" – If that plays correctly then your card is working and your problem is with myth

[00:57:36]

Anduin:

newbie0034: I'd delete all capture cards in mythtv-setup and readd your 150

[00:57:47]

Tanthrix:

That was going to be my next suggestion ;)

[00:58:36]

newbie0034:

I did that, then I readded the video source,

[00:58:46]

newbie0034:

now I'm getting an error about a lock file

[00:59:12]

Anduin:

share the error

[00:59:37]

newbie0034:

sorry I closed that window,

[01:01:39]

newbie0034:

sorry to bug you guys,

[01:01:43]

Anduin:

newbie0034: use udev to make a consistent link

[01:01:55]

newbie0034:

I do have another card, I'm not sure what type it is. It's not setup

[01:02:28]

newbie0034:

It's made by "norwood"

[01:02:42]

Tanthrix:

If it's not setup, get it the hell out of the system

[01:02:44]

Anduin:

newbie0034: It doesn't have to be setup in MythTV to mess with the device names, there is an entry on the wiki about using udev to create links tied to the PCI card id.

[01:02:46]

newbie0034:

I'm not familiar with udev, I'll look it up

[01:02:48]

Anduin:

er slot

[01:04:15]

Captain_Murdoch:

anyone here have a ConvertX box?

[01:04:43]

newbie0034:

Thanks for your help, I appreicate it. If I can exactly hammer down a repetitive problem I'll share with the community but it's most likely caused by my in-experance

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newbie0034:

thanks again

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[01:28:07]

bendavis78:

I'm having a wierd problem w/ MythTV. It seems to be deleting expiring shows in random order. I had a show recorded last wednesday and it is now gone, while there are shows still on there that are older than that (and that are also set to expire).

[01:30:26]

Anduin:

bendavis78: age may not be the only factor in determining what to expire, check your settings.

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[01:48:30]

AngryElf:

kormoc, if you're still around, i've (finally bothered) to upgrade to .2 and Qt is the default painter, yet eveything is still really slow — any other suggestions?

[01:48:37]

AngryElf:

...it's just the menu drawing, once i'm into a show, ff, rewind etc work fine

[01:50:14]

AngryElf:

sorry, apparently changing appearance settings restarts X

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[01:51:10]

hads:

I'm guessing you mean 0.20, not 0.2

[01:51:36]

Anduin:

AngryElf: It just reloads everything, doesn't restart X

[01:51:46]

AngryElf:

reloaded X for me

[01:51:54]

AngryElf:

or gdm, one or the other

[01:52:10]

** AngryElf randomly makes stuff up to baffle the regulars **

[01:52:15]

Anduin:

Yeah, that sounds more like X crashing

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[02:14:26]

nomin:

mythtv won't transcode for me. I pick a video to be transcoded and it remains in 'queued' status forever. How do I find out what's causing it to stay queued?

[02:15:31]

Fnc:

look at the logs for mythbackend

[02:16:11]

nomin:

I have mythbackened running in the console. I just see the same message over and over again.

[02:16:43]

nomin:

"MainServer::HandleAnnounce Monitor" which is normal.

[02:17:04]

nomin:

nothing else though when I tell it to transcode.

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[02:18:54]

nomin:

hmm...I don't have transcode installed. Maybe that has something to do with it :P

[02:19:19]

Nem^1 is now known as Nem^

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

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[02:36:09]

spinull:

whats up fuckers

[02:36:15]

d03boy:

SUP

[02:36:34]

d03boy:

what is mythtv?

[02:36:47]

spinull:

like tivo for linux

[02:36:59]

spinull:

supposing you have a supported tuner

[02:37:14]

nomin:

d03boy: you schedule and record tv programs onto your hard drive with it.

[02:37:19]

spinull:

so who was it that said i had to get rid of gnome/beryl/mythtv to solve my problem?

[02:37:24]

d03boy:

thats illegal, you'll go to jail

[02:37:29]

spinull:

cause you were all WRONG

[02:37:37]

nomin:

you can also transcode recorded videos. You can cut out commercials and stuff.

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[02:39:27]

spinull:

kormoc, i did what you so rudely told me i couldn't do

[02:39:29]

spinull:

so F you

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[02:39:49]

d03boy:

owned

[02:40:03]

** Anduin looks for updates to the wiki **

[02:40:27]

Captain_Murdoch:

that's hillarious. like a kid hiding behind his mommy after slapping another kid, spinull quickly /exits after his jab.

[02:41:04]

** kormoc laughs and resists the urge to do a +b *@s208-180-251-76.lubbcmtk01.tx.sta.suddenlink.net **

[02:41:24]

d03boy:

do it

[02:41:35]

d03boy:

he will just go around it

[02:41:39]

d03boy:

if he wants

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[02:43:09]

kormoc:

I wonder if we can clean up the ban list anyway, there's a pile of oldish ones there

[02:45:02]

clever:

you can view the timestamp on bans

[02:45:09]

** hads shakes his head at spinull **

[02:45:11]

clever:

/mode #mythtv-users +b

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[02:48:14]

xzcvczxx:

what a munter

[02:48:51]

xzcvczxx:

Captain_Murdoch: just need to find a nice op to /kill him

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[03:08:56]

hadees:

So every time i fast forward in HDTV or STD i keep getting Audio buffer overflow, audio data lost! errors

[03:09:03]

hadees:

any idea how to fix that?

[03:09:05]

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[03:09:27]

hadees:

it makes it impossible to use ffwd

[03:14:35]

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[03:14:50]

compgood:

does mythtv have issues with multiple monitors?

[03:14:59]

compgood:

multiple x screens?

[03:15:14]

Tronic:

Should work fine if you build with Xinerama support.

[03:15:25]

compgood:

I turned on the dual monitor stuff, and now mythtv segfaults when I run it

[03:15:39]

compgood:

nythtv-setup, mythfrontend

[03:15:54]

GreyFoxx:

I use mine at work on a dual monitor/videocard system and myth works happily (without any special config or compile options)

[03:16:04]

Tronic:

With TwinView & other Xinerama-stuff, that is – multiple X screens aren't, AFAIK, and I know next to nothing about them.

[03:16:28]

hadees:

hmm this is interesting and might be causing my seek problem, Table './mythconverg/recordedseek' is marked as crashed and should be repaired

[03:16:31]

hadees:

so how do you repair it

[03:16:43]

GreyFoxx:

repair table recordedseek;

[03:16:58]

GreyFoxx:

or stop mysql and use the myisamchk -r tool

[03:17:12]

compgood:

what exactly is xinerama by the way?

[03:17:38]

GreyFoxx:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinerama

[03:17:42]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, i ran that command but when i did another check table recordseek; it gave me the same issue

[03:18:22]

GreyFoxx:

which command did you use. The repair tabnle sql command or the commandline app myisamchk

[03:18:32]

hadees:

repair table sql command

[03:18:36]

compgood:

ahh

[03:18:37]

hadees:

it should be instant right?

[03:18:53]

compgood:

I just kind of used the nvidia utility to set it up, I dont know how it actually worked :)

[03:18:54]

GreyFoxx:

hadee;s pretty fast, not really instant

[03:18:57]

hadees:

or at least give me another message

[03:20:39]

hads:

Did you remember the semicolon? :)

[03:21:15]

hadees:

hads, yeah

[03:21:34]

hadees:

i'm trying the myisamchk tool now

[03:21:35]

Anduin:

and your disk isn't full?

[03:21:46]

hadees:

yes, my disk isn't full

[03:23:14]

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[03:24:50]

clever:

how would i sort the episodes of a show acording to either the firstairing date or the epusode number

[03:25:16]

clever:

im recording a show from 2 channels and the seasons are interlaced in my listing

[03:27:13]

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[03:32:09]

GreyFoxx:

Hmmm, looks like I've found a reproducable way to cause a backend to freakout

[03:32:26]

GreyFoxx:

but it only seems to happen when using the iptv recorder

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[03:36:20]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, thanks for the help that myisamchk worked, now can someone explain to me how the table in the database messes up fast forward, i guess it must check it or something but it doesn't really make that much sense to me

[03:36:46]

kormoc:

hadees, it's the seek table, it tells myth that frame X == time Y

[03:37:17]

GreyFoxx:

bah, the lockup I'm seeing with the iptv recorder doesn't happen when using -v all hehe

[03:37:44]

hadees:

kormoc, so instead of just moving ahead in the video like say mplayer or xine might do it uses the table in the database?

[03:38:03]

GreyFoxx:

yes

[03:38:27]

kormoc:

hadees, yes, because xine/mplayer will generate one if there isn't one in the file and it's not always correct, myth just generates it once in a way that is sure to be correct and stores it in the db

[03:38:51]

GreyFoxx:

and allows for the frame perfect jumps, commercial skips , cutlists, etc

[03:39:49]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, that part makes sense it is just the regular fast forward i didn't get but now that it has been explained it does make sense

[03:39:52]

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[03:40:26]

GreyFoxx:

basically the other apps "guess" when they jump, we don't

[03:41:07]

GreyFoxx:

hmmm do I want to keep trying to track down this problem or wait til tomorrow...

[03:41:27]

mIRCat:

Is it possible to do both?

[03:42:15]

GreyFoxx:

Not really no. It's a binary action. Either I'm working on it, or I'm not :)

[03:42:31]

GreyFoxx:

and for the time being I choose sleep for the win :)

[03:42:34]

hadees:

mythtv has an iptv recorder?

[03:42:41]

GreyFoxx:

hadees: yes

[03:43:08]

kormoc:

Silly east coast time zoner folks, going to bed all early like

[03:43:10]

hadees:

wait when you say iptv what are you talking about, i am thinking Internet TV like video streams

[03:43:13]

GreyFoxx:

it has for a while :)

[03:43:14]

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[03:43:42]

GreyFoxx:

hadees: like IPTV, not just "streaming internet video" :)

[03:43:54]

GreyFoxx:

there are many IPTV video providers

[03:44:01]

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[03:44:12]

GreyFoxx:

plus people with freebox's can use it to sent rtsp streams to their mythbox for recording

[03:44:29]

mIRCat:

For a minute I thought you all were talking about Iowa public television

[03:44:53]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, can mythtv do live tv over iptv?

[03:44:54]

GreyFoxx:

I've got vlc generating 8 streams that I have setup as 8 seperate channelsso I can record all 8 at once even though the source is asingle dvb card

[03:44:58]

GreyFoxx:

hadees: yup

[03:45:38]

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[03:45:41]

hadees:

cool, i have wanted to do something like that for a while, i don't live in the same area of my sports teams so i would love to have something at my parents house to stream the video to me

[03:45:49]

hadees:

would i use just a regular mythbackend?

[03:45:57]

hadees:

or another device like a slingbox

[03:46:09]

GreyFoxx:

No, myth doesn;t generate an iptv stream

[03:46:15]

GreyFoxx:

It will record one

[03:46:22]

GreyFoxx:

they are different actions :)

[03:46:24]

hadees:

so i need to find something that will provide it

[03:47:00]

hadees:

thats what i was wondering, although slingbox i think isn't really iptv and uses encryption

[03:47:31]

hadees:

so is there a device out there that can generate an iptv stream and works well with mythtv?

[03:48:18]

GreyFoxx:

I've just run into some race condition where at program changeover/new recording start while also streaming something for playback it locks up the backend process

[03:48:24]

GreyFoxx:

hadees: No idea

[03:48:41]

GreyFoxx:

Well, yes actually, a freebox/dreambox

[03:49:02]

GreyFoxx:

plus users tv providers use iptv for video delivery and they can record from it

[03:49:17]

GreyFoxx:

and you can use vlc to generate such a stream from avideo or other input

[03:53:20]

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[05:48:31]

mrvino:

should /dev/video0 be there regardless of whether I have the proper drivers installed or is it dependent on them?

[05:49:05]

Anduin:

mrvino: these days things would need to be working for it to be there

[05:50:31]

mrvino:

in the past two days I've tried knoppmyth, mythdora, and two separate installs of ubuntu but the /dev/video0 link isn't there and as such, mythtv can't find a capture card

[05:51:04]

mrvino:

so I was wondering if it was a driver or hardware problem

[05:51:30]

Anduin:

mrvino: Which capture card?

[05:51:47]

Anduin:

and it isn't always /dev/video0

[05:51:47]

mrvino:

hauppauge pvr-150

[05:52:04]

Anduin:

mrvino: dmesg and look at the ivtv init

[05:52:20]

mrvino:

right, but there's no /dev/video* anything

[05:53:05]

Anduin:

right, but the ivtv driver can fail to load, and when it does it is useful to see what the problem is.

[05:54:25]

mrvino:

damn, unfortunately I can't right now. I'm dual booted into my other os. I'll have to do it at another time-- I've been working on this for far too long now. I was just curious on that one question

[05:54:53]

Anduin:

Yeah, the most common other device node would be /dev/v4l/videoblah

[05:55:17]

Anduin:

but dmesg, with the ivtv init log it is likely someone here could help

[05:56:14]

mrvino:

ok great. I'll work on it tomorrow. and I seem to have found somebody who's in the same predicament as I am: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=449108 I'll probably chime in that thread tomorrow, too. thanks, anduin.

[05:57:59]

Dagmar:

To clarify tho, if the PVR-150 is all you have in that box, when it's initted it _will_ be /dev/video0

[06:47:35]

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[06:48:56]

Anduin:

hadees: The same mount path?

[06:49:07]

hadees:

Anduin, yeah

[07:06:15]

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[07:31:06]

juski:

mornin gbee

[07:31:32]

gbee:

morning

[07:31:37]

juski:

Dagmar: the pvr150, when inited will be /dev/video0 if any grotty usb webcams didn't get there first ;)

[07:33:03]

Beirdo:

yay... got all my vservers transfered over to xen domUs

[07:33:36]

Beirdo:

now when I get time tomorrow, I can upgrade the vservers machine from dapper -> edgy -> feisty, then install xen there too :)

[07:33:44]

Beirdo:

then move some domUs back

[07:33:53]

juski:

woo

[07:34:43]

Beirdo:

my condolences

[07:34:54]

directhex:

it's a big virtualization jamboree at casa de Beirdo

[07:35:10]

Beirdo:

tomorrow, we are getting a pile of "EOL" Sun stuff from the wifey's work

[07:35:27]

Beirdo:

directhex, yup :) I decided to take the plunge :)

[07:35:44]

Beirdo:

I had vservers for over a year, xen is worth it thogh

[07:36:10]

hads:

I was just contemplating doing some xen stuff

[07:36:33]

directhex:

wake me when 3d drivers work

[07:36:40]

Beirdo:

ERROR: havok-build.xen: [can not read/write /dev/null: Permission denied]

[07:36:41]

Beirdo:

ERROR: trac.xen: [can not read/write /dev/null: Permission denied]

[07:36:41]

Beirdo:

ERROR: asterisk.xen: [can not read/write /dev/null: Permission denied]

[07:36:51]

Beirdo:

errrr, I have some amanda fixin to do too, it seems :)

[07:37:01]

Beirdo:

dunno how I did that

[07:37:42]

hads:

You running any hardware in that Asterisk domU?

[07:37:48]

Beirdo:

nope

[07:37:56]

hads:

Ah :)

[07:38:10]

Beirdo:

udev set /dev/null to 660?!

[07:38:16]

Beirdo:

what is it smoking!?

[07:38:50]

Beirdo:

but /etc/udev/permissions.d/udev says 0666

[07:38:52]

Dagmar:

It's smoking Ubuntu

[07:38:54]

Beirdo:

don't get it

[07:39:04]

Beirdo:

udev.permissions rather

[07:39:50]

juski:

bugger. I forgot to update mm_waiting.png

[07:42:18]

Beirdo:

anyways, bed

[07:42:26]

Beirdo:

it's almost 4am

[07:42:26]

Beirdo:

:)

[07:42:51]

directhex:

starting udev twice breaks /dev/null

[07:43:47]

Beirdo:

really?

[07:43:57]

Beirdo:

hmm, well, I might take a look later.

[07:45:20]

directhex:

check your rc*.d for a duplicate start

[07:45:41]

Beirdo:

will do

[07:46:02]

Beirdo:

for all I know it's starting it in the initrd, then in rc*.d

[07:48:45]

directhex:

directhex@mortos:~$ ls /etc/rc*.d/S*udev

[07:48:45]

directhex:

/etc/rcS.d/S10udev

[07:49:02]

gbee:

!trout juski

[07:49:02]

** MythLogBot slaps juski with a trout on behalf of gbee... **

[07:51:11]

Beirdo:

talk to you fine Brits later. I gotta sleep :) Got some Sun Ray 100s and hopefully an E4500 to cart around tomorrow :)

[07:51:16]

Beirdo:

hehe

[07:51:23]

Beirdo:

free stuff rules

[07:51:28]

** directhex drops a sunfire on Beirdo **

[07:51:30]

Beirdo:

night all

[07:52:41]

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[07:54:41]

gbee:

discovered the svn merge command today, wish I'd bothered to read the manual on it before as it would have saved a lot of hassle in backporting fixes

[07:55:24]

hads:

heh

[07:55:37]

Dagmar:

*snicker*

[07:55:47]

hads:

It always confuses me

[08:01:45]

juski:

gbee: wowossat for?

[08:02:15]

juski:

I've just updated 3 more images, so I hope nobody's closed that ticket again :-P

[08:02:32]

juski:

me & my 'yeah that should be the last of them' attitude .. pfft

[08:02:38]

gbee:

!trout with a bucket o'

[08:02:38]

** MythLogBot slaps with with a a bucket o' trout on behalf of gbee... **

[08:03:06]

juski:

mmm trouty

[08:03:26]

juski:

gonna leave it at pf-selX.png ok?

[08:03:36]

juski:

when they're uploaded that's it for today!

[08:03:44]

gbee:

heh

[08:04:01]

juski:

can't blame me for wanting to change the images – they looked a bit gash round the edges

[08:04:24]

juski:

oh and now the program finder highlight images actually fit inside the lines ;)

[08:06:39]

juski:

right gonna re-open it for the (hopefully) last time. sorry & all that :)

[08:06:42]

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[08:07:28]

juski:

I should probably set off for work

[08:19:28]

frink_:

morning

[08:19:31]

frink_:

work

[08:19:33]

frink_:

nah

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[08:39:16]

directhex|work:

juski, what whizzy extra gui eye candy would you like to see in myth, as a theme creator?

[08:44:36]

Dagmar:

Documentation.

[08:44:38]

Dagmar:

;)

[08:44:43]

gbee:

time on the menu screens

[08:45:00]

Dagmar:

I think we should go find that Mepo guy and beat him until he tells us where he got his docs from

[08:45:54]

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[08:46:23]

directhex|work:

Dagmar, use the source, luke!

[08:46:28]

gbee:

fwiw it's been on my list for a while now, but having the ability to put a clock on the menu screen is one of the most requested GUI changes – plus it's practical

[08:47:01]

Dagmar:

directhex: The source has almost no comments in it

[08:47:18]

directhex|work:

Dagmar, comments are for people who aren't busy writing code!

[08:48:33]

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[08:49:15]

Dagmar:

Comments are for people who like being employed.

[08:49:31]

gbee:

wouldn't take too much for a group of people to document it in the wiki

[08:50:11]

gbee:

Dagmar: if I were people employed to work on mythtv, they might use more comments ;)

[08:50:23]

gbee:

http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/OSD_development_guide needs to be finished for example

[08:59:31]

Dagmar:

Let's roll this back a little

[08:59:40]

Dagmar:

The comment was made "Use the source, luke."

[08:59:51]

Dagmar:

I'm saying that's damn near useless because the source is largely undocumented.

[09:00:15]

Dagmar:

More comments IN the source, (as in "not the wiki") would likely help the code maturity quite a bit

[09:00:31]

Dagmar:

As it stands now, most anyone wanting to help gets to reverse engineer everything

[09:02:04]

directhex|work:

the true free software way

[09:02:13]

** directhex|work sheds a patriotic tear **

[09:04:32]

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[09:05:48]

Dagmar:

...and that "comments are for people who aren't busy writing code!" is just *bullshit*

[09:06:06]

Dagmar:

Uncommented code is usually shit.

[09:06:47]

Dagmar:

...because if the person who wrote it can't explain what the hell it does in a sentence or two, then the probably don't really know what the hell they actuallly just wrote.

[09:06:56]

hads:

I agree on the first point. It makes it faster even for yourself later on if you comment your code.

[09:07:29]

Dagmar:

hads: I very seldom find anything like the bugs I find in uncommented code when I'm looking at properly documented code

[09:07:43]

directhex|work:

writing comments potentially gets very tedious very fast. "oh look, another for loop. wheeeee!"

[09:07:43]

hads:

Don't think I'd go so far as uncommented code is <naughty word>

[09:07:56]

Dagmar:

If anything, coders tend to write a short description and then slap themselves in the forehead when they realize it doesn't match up with what the code does

[09:08:13]

Dagmar:

directhex: That particular argument is *also* bullshit

[09:08:28]

Dagmar:

directhex: That there's a for loop should be obvious.

[09:08:39]

Dagmar:

directhex: WHY there is a for loop is what matters.

[09:09:10]

Dagmar:

Little things like "Now we iterate to free up ALL the reserved blocks of shared memory" or "now we close all the filehandles"

[09:09:26]

Dagmar:

er "filehandles opened by the child processes"

[09:11:03]

** gardengnome sobs **

[09:11:08]

juski:

directhex|work: zoomfade! reflections, shiny things

[09:11:25]

juski:

smooth scrolling!

[09:11:31]

Dagmar:

ringtones!

[09:11:34]

juski:

rss & time on the menus

[09:11:48]

gardengnome:

why are $things on ubuntu so unstable for me? amarok is a crashing POS and thunderbird tends to hang. probably caused by a laggy imapd, though

[09:12:09]

Dagmar:

Youre using the wrong apps?

[09:12:18]

hads:

gardengnome: Odd. Amarok is stable here

[09:12:21]

Dagmar:

I mean, Amarok is a crash-happy POS on *any* distro

[09:12:28]

juski:

directhex|work: why do you ask? you gonna code some nice things?

[09:12:36]

hads:

Dagmar: bollocks

[09:13:02]

Dagmar:

hads: How often do you actually _use_ Amarok?

[09:13:07]

directhex|work:

juski, i wondered what the actual demand was, before looking at any code

[09:13:20]

juski:

directhex|work: don't think anybody's in any kind of rush

[09:13:27]

hads:

Dagmar: Every day, around 8 hours.

[09:13:35]

hads:

And yourself?

[09:13:52]

juski:

I'd not mind seeing select bars move smoothly rather than just jump. and have an option to disable that fscking lame fade

[09:13:54]

Dagmar:

I don't know because I was letting it play while I slept, only to find it crashed every other morning

[09:14:10]

directhex|work:

juski, and if it breaks theme compatibility?

[09:14:24]

juski:

directhex|work: or.. choice of menu transitions :)

[09:14:30]

juski:

directhex|work: you're dead?

[09:14:32]

hads:

Dagmar: Maybe it's crash happy for *you*, that doesn't mean the app itself is crash happy.

[09:14:43]

Dagmar:

True.

[09:14:52]

Dagmar:

It could just be that it was KDE-based

[09:15:00]

directhex|work:

juski, here's my thought process, feel free to interrupt

[09:15:03]

hads:

*yawn*

[09:15:03]

juski:

directhex|work: depends how it breaks theme compatibility. obviously you'd try not to

[09:15:24]

hads:

Dagmar: Of all the useless comments I've seen here today that's the worst.

[09:15:32]

juski:

gardengnome: maybe amaroK would be better on a desktop whose name starts with K ;)

[09:16:19]

gbee:

Dagmar: I agree more comments in the source would be a good thing and my comment about people not being employed to work on TV is no reflection on my own use of comments (I try to include inline comments where I think they are needed in addition to Doxygen comments detailing class/function behaviour)

[09:16:59]

directhex|work:

juski, firstly, allow more things to be defined in a theme's xml e.g. a menu can have an appear and disappear transition defined, along with basic parameters appropriate to that transition (the obvious example being a smooth scroll menu which appears from one direction and disappears in another direction). for that to work cleanly, it'd be necessary to define Z-ordering for elements. the bright side is, the qt painter could simply ign

[09:16:59]

directhex|work:

ore all the extra elements

[09:17:39]

gardengnome:

juski: i'm running Kubuntu

[09:17:40]

gbee:

placing documentation on the wiki is a start, although I would hope that anyone documenting code there would also supply documentation patches for the source as well

[09:18:43]

gbee:

suprisingly we get almost no code documentation patches at all – lots of people note the lack of documentation for areas of the code, but few do anything about it

[09:19:07]

juski:

directhex|work: I was thinking along the same lines. splitting the ui elements up will also be a great idea.. that'll break every theme but I'm all for it. take ui.xml as an example it's too much to handle in one go

[09:19:50]

juski:

oooo! while i remember, make it possible to theme the OSD *menus* . There are way too many options for my taste & if I could edit an xml to cut em down.. :)

[09:20:24]

directhex|work:

juski, that's a distinct ticket, i think. an easier one, too.

[09:20:43]

hads:

juski: That's not a bad idea.

[09:21:09]

juski:

aww thanks :)

[09:21:23]

juski:

FWIW there are only about 2 OSD menu things I ever use

[09:21:28]

directhex|work:

juski, conceptually, how to smoothly do the highlight bar? some people change font color or style, so you can't just have a translucent element you overlay

[09:21:43]

juski:

directhex|work: screw those people? ;)

[09:22:13]

juski:

actually oops I'd not thought of them. bugger

[09:23:15]

directhex|work:

juski, and people are likely to start wanting things that require more deep-down changing – e.g. dynamically scalable elements (think the OSX dock, you know as well as i do someone would want a theme whose icons grow or shrink)

[09:23:41]

juski:

directhex|work: so do that in opengl only

[09:23:51]

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[09:23:55]

juski:

start off with them big & scale em down for 'normal' display

[09:24:19]

directhex|work:

mmm... aliasing

[09:24:23]

juski:

i.e. they're big but displayed smaller, then 'zoom in' for highlights (i.e. display them original size)

[09:24:41]

juski:

nah. hardware scalers are usually pretty good

[09:25:01]

juski:

last thing i want is a move to svg icons!

[09:25:28]

directhex|work:

not sure how you'd define growable elements cleanly in the xml

[09:25:48]

juski:

watermarks could be growable, for example

[09:25:50]

directhex|work:

or, worse, how about elements that move? i forget which commercial windows pvr app it was, but one used a "ring" based menu

[09:26:16]

juski:

directhex|work: so define a matrix

[09:26:39]

juski:

make it 2D but define what angle the plane of icons is displayed at

[09:28:02]

** directhex|work suspects walking before running is required, tries to find time to add proof of concept animated menus to gl code **

[09:28:38]

juski:

oh and another thing we've touched on more than once before.. where text is too big to fit, scroll it!

[09:32:24]

gbee:

directhex|work: because I'd like to see these ideas come to fruition, start small and submit frequent patches :)

[09:32:51]

juski:

yeah open a ticket & upload new bits every few hours :-P

[09:32:53]

directhex|work:

gbee, i need to understand the existing code first. some silly bugger forgot to comment it!

[09:33:59]

juski:

directhex|work: I know how you could get around the aforementioned problem of smooth moving highlight bars.. new button types :)

[09:36:30]

** directhex|work will feel much more motivated in general if his line of code makes it into the kernel **

[09:38:13]

gbee:

directhex|work: now would be a good time to comment the code as you understand it :)

[09:47:52]

Dagmar:

...cuz otherwise coders looking at the code only see what the code is _doing_ as opposed to what it was _supposed to be doing_

[09:48:07]

Dagmar:

Stuff like that is why eggdrop is such a piece of (censored)

[09:50:47]

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[09:51:45]

voltagex:

with no deinterlacing, SDTV looks like...SDTV, but as soon as deinterlacing is turned on, artifacts everywhere.

[09:52:04]

Dagmar:

What are you using for a display?

[09:52:33]

voltagex:

22" LCD monitor

[09:52:51]

Dagmar:

Over what output?

[09:52:57]

voltagex:

VGA

[09:53:10]

juski:

voltagex: SD scaled to daft resolutions is always gonna look like poo

[09:53:18]

Dagmar:

Hmm... I'd say just leave deinterlacing off then

[09:53:29]

Dagmar:

Seems like *something* is doing the right thing on it's own

[09:54:04]

juski:

woo microdirect have got my monitor in stock again :)

[09:54:15]

juski:

this ciggy money is burning a hole in my wallet

[09:54:40]

voltagex:

juski: I just said it looks fine when its not deinterlaced, but then you get the lines/funny tearing – even HDTV artifacts with deinterlacing. If I record, then watch it with deinterlacing with something like VLC it looks fine

[09:56:10]

Dagmar:

Dear god do some of these people even realize what they're writing in hardware reviews?

[09:56:12]

Dagmar:

"When transferring over 50GB of music and movies drive only got moderatly warm and took 90 minutes."

[09:56:30]

voltagex:

spinning motor = warm

[09:56:45]

Dagmar:

I'm more concerned with that it took 90 bloody minutes

[09:56:53]

voltagex:

give us a megabytes per second

[09:57:01]

Dagmar:

Buy a calculator

[09:57:09]

voltagex:

just thought that lol

[09:57:52]

Dagmar:

heh

[09:58:05]

Dagmar:

I will probably break down and order a 500Gb drive in the morning

[09:58:17]

voltagex:

568mb/minute

[09:58:28]

voltagex:

my computer must SUCK because I don't get that

[09:59:02]

Dagmar:

Your computer can't handle 9mb/s throughput?

[09:59:20]

voltagex:

actually, it's about 11mb/s

[09:59:30]

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[09:59:32]

Dagmar:

Either way, it's slow as hell

[09:59:35]

voltagex:

I know, it sucks

[10:00:19]

Dagmar:

I get 54mb/s off my "regular" IDE drive

[10:00:48]

voltagex:

Dagmar: ffs....know any benching program on Linux?

[10:00:53]

voltagex:

that can't be right

[10:01:13]

nipuL:

i still can't get sound in livetv. i've tested capturing with mencoder and that works. i have no idea what is wrong :

[10:01:21]

Dagmar:

hdparm -t /dev/drivename

[10:01:42]

voltagex:

should that be unmounted first Dagmar ?

[10:01:47]

Dagmar:

nipuL: Well, that's why we keep saying framegrabber cards suck

[10:02:00]

Dagmar:

voltagex: It would *help*

[10:02:06]

Dagmar:

I didn't bother to just then

[10:02:52]

nipuL:

well it's all i have at the moment

[10:03:03]

Dagmar:

You can, of course, always use dd and the time command as well

[10:03:20]

voltagex:

Dagmar: yeah, I will once there's nothing recording on TV

[10:04:02]

voltagex:

I'm actually more interested in what I'm getting from CD

[10:04:17]

voltagex:

/DVD to hard drive

[10:07:48]

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[10:17:29]

Merlin83b2 is now known as Merlin83b

[10:26:05]

gbee:

juski: in case you're in the mood to replace some more images, the default-wide stuff needs doing too

[10:51:53]

juski:

gbee: can't do that while I'm at work, but roger :)

[10:52:46]

juski:

the irony of this.. the images I'm updating are prolly the reason I started making my own themes in the 1st place.. rofl

[10:53:07]

gbee:

;)

[10:53:57]

juski:

I really want to change the rectangular highlighty thing at some point in both default & default-wide. it looks pooey. sort of thing that'd have to go to a vote though

[10:55:59]

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[11:08:33]

juski:

just spoke to our Mr Badge :)

[11:08:45]

gardengnome:

badger badger badger?

[11:08:58]

juski:

casebadger badger badger :D

[11:09:21]

juski:

getting a quote for 200 off dome badges, 1 inch square

[11:10:43]

gardengnome:

selling 'em on ebay?

[11:11:38]

juski:

yeah if I have any left after LRL

[11:11:48]

gardengnome:

nice

[11:12:12]

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[11:14:20]

directhex|work:

juski, if we ignore the cases where it isn't practical, for highlight-bar themes, wouldn't it be sufficient to Z-order the text in front of the bar, then move the bar? that assumes the text doesn't change when selected, it just gets highlighted

[11:15:14]

juski:

directhex|work: that's what happens already I think

[11:15:26]

juski:

the button is behind the text

[11:16:11]

directhex|work:

that should make things easier

[11:16:56]

** juski looks for promotional tshirt copanies **

[11:18:06]

directhex|work:

4imprint?

[11:20:51]

Merlin83b:

juski: We use wild thang

[11:21:24]

voltagex:

stupid question, what format is the output from mythcommflag --getcutlist

[11:21:37]

Dagmar:

I wonder if Myth is going to explode when I try this

[11:21:37]

voltagex:

I need to write down the cuts so I can re-sync the subtitles

[11:21:49]

juski:

Merlin83b: they in mancs?

[11:22:11]

juski:

directhex|work: looks like 4imprint only do expensive

[11:22:18]

Dagmar:

I'm gonna try two stupid things in the next 36 hours. 1) binding more than one icon graphic to a menu item, and 2) binding an animation to a menu item instead of the usual icon

[11:22:30]

Merlin83b:

juski: No, they work mail order though.

[11:24:16]

juski:

Merlin83b: woo they have a 2005 catalogue on their website!

[11:24:48]

Merlin83b:

lol

[11:26:54]

Merlin83b:

juski: I think they were quite good at e-mail and sending samples and stuff.

[11:28:32]

juski:

just want up to 5 tshirts printed with the mythtv logo

[11:28:45]

Merlin83b:

Give 'em a call :)

[11:28:56]

juski:

not looking into making a living out of flogging mythtv merchandise.. yet

[11:29:00]

Merlin83b:

Our last order was for 100, so not sure what they're likeon the smaller quantities.

[11:29:47]

directhex|work:

in those quantities, just buy a pack of HP t-shirt transfer kits and some plain tees

[11:30:45]

Merlin83b:

Quite possibly a good plan – a mate did that for a stag do and it didn't end up too pricy.

[11:30:50]

voltagex:

directhex|work: :( I would buy just a transfer

[11:31:06]

voltagex:

directhex|work: but I'm not getting anywhere near that conf/show

[11:31:18]

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[11:31:24]

juski:

directhex|work: I did that last year. it was a hot day & it just melted & looked shite

[11:31:27]

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[11:31:38]

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[11:31:44]

voltagex:

juski: that's the downside of transfers

[11:32:08]

juski:

thirteen quid for 10 tshirts here

[11:32:10]

juski:

wow

[11:32:10]

directhex|work:

juski, so get a t-shirt transfer kit, and a goat to sacrifice to cause it to rain

[11:32:16]

juski:

that's printed, exc vat

[11:32:24]

directhex|work:

okay, get that. them's cheapÂ¬!

[11:32:37]

voltagex:

juski: can I buy just some transfers?

[11:32:47]

voltagex:

juski: I'd love a mythtv tshirt

[11:33:51]

juski:

lol

[11:33:59]

juski:

it's Monday & I've gone blonde

[11:34:13]

juski:

Â£13 for 10 tshirts.. that's _each_. I'm a feckwit

[11:34:32]

juski:

I can go to the uni print shop & pay way less than that

[11:34:50]

juski:

nice mythtv logo on the front

[11:35:02]

juski:

and some compile time warnings on the back :)

[11:35:21]

voltagex:

GIMMEH!

[11:35:34]

juski:

also need an A1 or A0 laser print

[11:36:59]

directhex|work:

the uni should be able to manage those

[11:37:06]

directhex|work:

i know we have an a0 printer at oxfnord

[11:37:57]

juski:

wow. Â£30 for A0

[11:38:04]

juski:

sod that then

[11:41:14]

directhex|work:

i started trying a mythtv windows build last night

[11:41:18]

squish102:

is it only me or has atrpms.net been awol for a day

[11:41:39]

directhex|work:

didn't get too far. couldn't get ./configure to offer me a "yes" anywhere in audio or video output

[11:42:07]

juski:

rolf

[11:42:52]

directhex|work:

seems the only sound output that works on windows is ESD, which is the only one myth doesn't support :)

[11:43:21]

juski:

woo manchester uni's IT dept can do A0 colour for a tenner

[11:43:22]

juski:

done!

[11:44:06]

juski:

how big is that logo gonna be I wonder..

[11:45:37]

juski:

!seen perlmonkey

[11:45:37]

MythLogBot:

perlmonkey was last seen 4 days 1 hour 37 minutes 23 seconds ago

[11:47:48]

directhex|work:

time to buy a sammich!

[11:48:43]

juski:

news coming in.. wife gave up smoking.. worst 40 minutes of life!

[11:51:10]

Ribs:

lol

[11:51:40]

juski:

gbee: ever done anything with bluetooth? wondering if we can send details of stuff to peeps via mobile phone to save on paper etc

[11:52:18]

gbee:

juski: no, don't even own a bluetooth capable device :/

[11:52:52]

juski:

just wondering if there's anything OSS we can use to do the job & a Â£10 dongle :)

[11:53:08]

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[11:55:12]

juski:

flyers or cards are all well & good but..

[11:58:54]

directhex|work:

juski, there's a limited amount you can do without pairing devices

[11:59:26]

juski:

pity in this day & age

[11:59:41]

juski:

everybody'll have a phone with them

[12:00:05]

juski:

so if we were to broadcast 'business cards' with handy URLs or whatever.. that'd be cool

[12:00:38]

juski:

then we'd just tell people to say 'yeah whatever' to get the info off us

[12:04:26]

juski:

we always run out of flyers. paper is bad for the environment, as is laser printing

[12:04:29]

juski:

same goes for CDs

[12:05:25]

directhex|work:

print messages onto rice paper with edible ink!

[12:07:54]

juski:

larl

[12:08:09]

directhex|work:

gah, for 2 years i've been making cd images with rock ridge but no joliet

[12:10:18]

gbee:

juski: how many flyers do you usually print up?

[12:10:23]

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[12:10:30]

juski:

gbee: not enough ;)

[12:10:37]

juski:

plus it's messy

[12:10:40]

gbee:

heh

[12:10:44]

juski:

and it's 2007 !

[12:11:10]

directhex|work:

instead of CD, write the key data to a 5.25" floppy

[12:11:16]

juski:

this is poo. linux bluejacking software... pretty much non-existant

[12:11:35]

directhex|work:

i have some for my palm. but nost handsets don't allow it anymore

[12:11:56]

juski:

yeah but there's a mode you can set where your phone asks

[12:12:00]

Ruleke:

juski: not really...

[12:12:05]

juski:

no?

[12:12:08]

juski:

that's crap then

[12:12:31]

Ruleke:

was replying to your linux soft statement ;)

[12:12:46]

juski:

not really non-existent? wooo

[12:12:53]

Ruleke:

sec

[12:13:28]

Ruleke:

OBEX push without auth

[12:13:35]

Ruleke:

those that have, you could setup a negotiation

[12:13:47]

gbee:

I can probably run off a thousand A5 flyers in an hour (BW Laser) – probably use up the last of my toner though ;)

[12:14:40]

juski:

gbee: I'll do some mono pngs then

[12:15:14]

juski:

I feel really reluctant to do the lo-tech thing when there are some cool possibilities with bluetooth & the like

[12:15:25]

Ruleke:

it's all dodgy ;)

[12:15:41]

Ruleke:

I wouldn't like it when someone tried to send me spam via bluetooth :P

[12:16:27]

juski:

I'd obviously prefer permission based then

[12:16:48]

directhex|work:

juski, there's be too much faff. people would need to stand there mucking about making their phones discoverable, rather than just grabbing from a pile o' paper

[12:17:06]

directhex|work:

that reminds me, i left discoverable on :x

[12:17:19]

juski:

bah

[12:17:27]

juski:

oh well. we'll just continue to kill the planet!

[12:17:37]

Ruleke:

there are ways around that :P

[12:17:42]

directhex|work:

print flyers onto newspaper!

[12:17:43]

juski:

gbee: keep yer toner. I'll waste the OKI here

[12:17:51]

Ruleke:

more into rfid research these days though

[12:18:05]

gbee:

hehe, ok

[12:18:19]

juski:

I can guillotine A4 down to a5 myself

[12:18:33]

juski:

def. not doing any CDs tho

[12:19:01]

directhex|work:

i like the trade show approach. if you want info, you let them scan your id badge, which gives contact details like email to the booth person doing the scanning

[12:21:57]

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[12:24:34]

gbee:

directhex|work: hmm, personally I'd prefer taking something away than handing over my contact details

[12:24:51]

Ruleke:

Does mythtv record all available audio streams in a dvb broadcast or does it pick one ?

[12:24:59]

gbee:

Ruleke: all

[12:25:17]

Ruleke:

damn that means they no longer send the alternates I suppose :-(

[12:27:52]

juski:

gbee: at LWE last year everybody came on my home address anyway

[12:32:24]

janneg:

Ruleke: mythtranscode might strip it

[12:33:22]

juski:

if I had a quid for every time someone asked how to get recorded shows to show up in the watch recordings list.. man I'd be RICH! Rich I tells ya!

[12:34:08]

directhex|work:

juski, how do you get recorded shows to show up in the watch recordings list?

[12:35:08]

juski:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequent . . . ecordings.3F

[12:35:22]

juski:

stick that in the FAQ

[12:46:05]

cal:

when i control-alt-f1 to the console, my the resolution changes and my tv cant display it. i know its not *true* console because it has that mythtv graphic wrapping it.. where do i change the resolution of that?

[12:47:16]

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[12:49:32]

directhex|work:

cal, it's a boot parameter. the bit that says "vga=something"

[12:50:02]

directhex|work:

or in VERY rare cases, video=

[12:50:51]

cal:

direct: hmm, that parm doesnt effect X i take it.

[12:51:23]

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[12:52:42]

juski:

sounds mythdora/knoppmythic

[12:53:34]

cal:

knopp yeah

[12:54:03]

Dagmar:

cal: Nope, that parameter only affects the text console

[12:54:28]

directhex|work:

it might affect X if you're using an utterly broken graphics driver, e.g. running ps3 linux

[12:55:04]

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[12:55:39]

Dagmar:

...or god forbid you got proactive and tried to enable the rivafb driver.

[12:56:13]

directhex|work:

well that's what i was getting at, since the ps3 only works via ps3fb, requiring use of the fb x driver

[12:56:50]

cal:

directx: nah. but i MAY try this on my modded xbox =)

[12:56:51]

Dagmar:

I would like to hope he'd have mentioned if he was running this on a PS3

[12:57:36]

cal:

dagmar: lol

[12:57:59]

Dagmar:

Are you using s-video or vga/dvi output to your TV, cal?

[12:58:10]

cal:

s-video

[12:58:49]

Dagmar:

Okay, the for the most part the text console should "just work" outputting through that if the TV was connected and on when you turned on the machine.

[12:58:54]

cal:

as a side note, if i have both a vga monitor plugged in as well as the tv to svideo on the same card... if i go to console, i *can* see it on the tv. (as well as the monitor).

[12:58:59]

juski:

cal: linux on the xbox sucks very very badly. can you spell s l o w (with only 32MB usable RAM) ?

[12:59:05]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v j-rod

[12:59:29]

Dagmar:

If you _didn't_ have the TV on when you booted, the console will likely not work

[12:59:30]

cal:

juski: you havent heard about the XBMC mythtv front end?? =)

[12:59:40]

juski:

cal: yeah. that sucks too

[12:59:44]

cal:

oh it does?

[12:59:51]

cal:

i heard it looked very nice

[13:00:04]

Dagmar:

THere's not much that's going to make 32mb of ram useable

[13:00:21]

gbee:

talk about a pointless "article"

[13:00:38]

cal:

jus: okay.. i may fool with it anyway.. but it wont be my main front end.

[13:00:49]

Dagmar:

since when did MythTV become a "feature" of ATI's?

[13:01:03]

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[13:01:53]

cal:

is there a windows full fledged DVR system like myth?

[13:02:01]

Dagmar:

Windows Media Centre

[13:02:15]

Dagmar:

Stream-somethingorother as well

[13:02:47]

cal:

dagmar: media centre... it does channel guide and all?

[13:03:16]

Dagmar:

I don't know. HUnt down some windows people and ask them

[13:04:46]

cal:

i think linux is better suited for it. less running in the background.

[13:04:57]

cal:

but then that makes me wonder why it runs on top of X

[13:05:58]

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[13:12:35]

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[13:13:47]

Dagmar:

cal: Might have something to do with the fact that it lets Myth avoid having to provide things like, drivers for video cards.

[13:14:19]

Dagmar:

If you think this is a small thing, ask anyone who was playing PC games back in 1994 or so about VESA VBE

[13:14:41]

Merlin83b:

Heh.

[13:14:53]

Merlin83b:

Haven't thought about that for a while, Dagmar!

[13:15:04]

Dagmar:

Hopefully the memories aren't too terribly painful

[13:15:11]

Dagmar:

Mine have mostly faded

[13:15:18]

Merlin83b:

Not too bad, no. Not exactly the simplest of times, though!

[13:15:34]

Merlin83b:

I mostly remember the sense of achievement when a new game actually ran for the first time.

[13:16:38]

Merlin83b:

Also, the messing about with boot disks, ems, xms and emm386.

[13:16:49]

gbee:

*shudder*

[13:18:40]

juski:

from the resident vista fanboy at work this morning.. "Media Centre is a piece of steaming shite"

[13:19:12]

juski:

apparently even if you've got dvb-t tuners it still only gets the EPG from MS online

[13:19:15]

juski:

(!)

[13:19:28]

gbee:

juski: I've heard a lot of the same from diehard Windows fans

[13:19:37]

juski:

so er.. none of the advantages of EIT come along for the ride. that's lamer than lame

[13:19:41]

gbee:

I have to say I was suprised

[13:20:00]

juski:

to hear that from Neil at work I'm flabberghasted

[13:26:32]

juski:

hmm gonna buy a bluetooth dongle anyway cos I need one. might aswell play with bluewossname as a bonus

[13:29:02]

Merlin83b:

Your search – bluewossname – did not match any documents.

[13:35:26]

Fony_Vaio:

just upgraded from a cheap CRT to a 1080p lcd. mpeg artifacts are very noticeable on upscaled SD content, however i've heard some proprietry win32 mpeg2 decoders can post process to reduce the appearance of said artefacts. Anything similar in 'nix?

[13:36:06]

gbee:

bluewossname?

[13:36:07]

Dagmar:

Proprietary decoders? Nope.

[13:36:29]

Hugolp:

Fony_Vaio: I wouldnt believe anything about windows unless you see it with your eyes

[13:36:47]

Hugolp:

and you can see it for more than a minute without it hanging

[13:36:48]

Fony_Vaio:

Dagmar, not proprietry, obviously. But any kinda post-processing for mpeg2 streams?

[13:36:54]

directhex|work:

i've seen things, i've seen them with my eyes! i've seen things, they;re often in disguise!

[13:36:58]

Dagmar:

There is what is already in the frontend and that's it

[13:37:09]

Fony_Vaio:

Hugolp, heh, i know what you mean. But one of my friends uses MCE, and he reckons it works a treat.

[13:38:11]

cal:

how do i get mythtv to change channels without having to hit enter/okay every time.. when just channel surfing

[13:38:38]

Fony_Vaio:

Dagmar, oh? I didn't think there was anything built in, i will look into it.

[13:38:47]

directhex|work:

cal, change the setting that determines whether or not it does that

[13:40:02]

cal:

yeah thats what ive been looking for

[13:40:39]

juski:

channel surfing? what? hmmm?

[13:41:17]

directhex|work:

how does one surf channels when it takes 5 or 6 seconds to change channel? :x

[13:41:45]

gbee:

Caliban: I forget where it is, but there is a setting which toggles browse mode on/off

[13:41:46]

juski:

vot ees thees channel zurfing you speek ov?

[13:42:00]

cal:

justi: you know, like a normal tv does...

[13:42:11]

juski:

normal? tv? hmmm

[13:42:22]

cal:

i know, its a widly new crazy concept for you =)

[13:42:40]

gbee:

personally I don't see the point – I read the programme info from the osd, if it's worth watching I change the channel

[13:42:41]

juski:

aha! when we used to waste literally hours on end scratching around in the vain hope of finding something interesting to watch.. ahhh

[13:43:15]

cal:

gbee: maybe its just something I am *used to* that i need to break the habit of doing.. shrug

[13:43:21]

juski:

1 2 3 4 .. nothing on.. 1 2 3 4 .. nothing on.. years later ... 1 2 3 4 5 .. nothing on ....

[13:43:35]

Ruleke:

heh how old are you ? ;)

[13:43:53]

juski:

old enough to remember when we only had 3 channels :-P

[13:44:04]

Ruleke:

not me

[13:44:12]

Ruleke:

And I'm not that young

[13:44:21]

cal:

i remember that

[13:44:27]

cal:

and i even remember most of the channels

[13:44:32]

Ruleke:

oh wait, I keep forgetting you guys used antennas

[13:44:39]

cal:

7,15,21,33,35,44

[13:44:44]

Hugolp:

I know it takes so long to change channel because the stream is recorded into the hard drive. Could it be posible to see the PiP witout the signal that feeds the little square going into the hard drive so you could surf the tv that way?

[13:44:53]

juski:

I remember the 'I've had my set set set' car stickers & posters for Channel 4

[13:45:08]

gbee:

I don't remember that, I was too young when Channel 4 was launched

[13:45:31]

** juski is 35 this year **

[13:45:37]

cal:

with time warner's dvr, it changes channels instantly.

[13:45:39]

Ruleke:

It's almost always been cable around here

[13:45:50]

juski:

Hugolp: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequent . . . n_Live_TV.3F

[13:46:04]

Ruleke:

they tell me we are/were the most cabled country in europe :-P

[13:47:03]

cal:

i am guessing time warners dvr, when you change channels, your watching the video directly, instead of through the encode/decode. unless you pause it.. then it switches over.

[13:47:23]

juski:

cal: yeah but the rest of the DVR sucks I bet

[13:47:41]

juski:

learn to ditch livetv & appreciate mythtv how it's intended to work :)

[13:47:46]

cal:

it was okay i thought

[13:47:56]

cal:

really buggy the first few months

[13:47:56]

Ruleke:

iirc pvr350 has such a passthrough feature, not sure if myth uses its api that way

[13:48:02]

cal:

until some updates came out

[13:48:30]

** juski gets his garlic & crucifix out. somebody mentioned PVR350 **

[13:48:48]

cal:

ruleke: pvr 500 too?

[13:49:27]

Ruleke:

no

[13:49:41]

Ruleke:

pvr350 does encoding/decoding

[13:49:56]

Ruleke:

ah so you're one of the nutsies juski ;)

[13:50:05]

cal:

ruleke: i thought the pvr 500 did too

[13:50:06]

Hugolp:

juski: I know about that, I am just saying you could have that functionallity in full screen but when you are watching through PiP in the little screen you dont need that functionallity, so you could just see it without going through the hard drive

[13:50:23]

Ruleke:

cal: no

[13:50:39]

Hugolp:

that would allow you to surf the tv in some way and keep all the mythtv functionallity

[13:50:43]

Dagmar:

Yumm... Another student begging for his connection back

[13:50:46]

juski:

cal: some v4l mpeg2 encoding cards do

[13:51:17]

Ruleke:

not much use in todays digital tv world though :)

[13:51:18]

juski:

some developers would rather livetv be dropped altogether. I'd be with them on that score

[13:52:48]

cal:

well i think channel surfing should be added. so bleh. =)

[13:52:55]

juski:

if you wanna watch tv without the timeshift, just make a new menu entry to launch tvtime or whatever :)

[13:52:57]

gbee:

if only because it would end these sorts of questions

[13:53:14]

juski:

gbee: oyay

[13:53:29]

juski:

mythtv != tv viewing app != VCR

[13:53:32]

cal:

anyway, i dont think mine takes 3–5 seconds

[13:53:32]

janneg:

cal: you're free to add it

[13:53:38]

cal:

i think its a bit faster

[13:53:38]

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[13:53:50]

juski:

takes < 1 sec on my pvr150 & cable box

[13:53:59]

juski:

< 5 secs with my dvb-t tuners

[13:54:07]

juski:

used to be much much worse

[13:54:43]

juski:

my cable STB takes > 5 secs sometimes

[13:55:22]

gbee:

I still use livetv occassionally, mostly for radio but sometimes to watch something I'd forgotten to record in advance

[13:55:49]

juski:

I left livetv on all day saturday to record One Big Weekend I confess

[13:56:07]

gbee:

it *seems* a little faster to go into livetv and start watching something than to find it in the guide and hit record

[13:56:11]

juski:

on my dustbin machine running svn

[13:56:19]

gbee:

it's probably not any faster though

[13:56:28]

cal:

janneg: while i am a coder, it would first take me a long while to get up to speed on the mythtv project. sounds fun though =)

[13:56:47]

juski:

cal: just make your lame (IMHO) feature _optional_

[13:57:09]

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[13:58:42]

cal:

juski: i was a 80–20 person on my time warner dvr.. 80% recorded 20% live.

[13:58:57]

cal:

is that so bad? =)

[13:59:10]

juski:

99% of the time I use livetv for testing my tuners & nothing else

[13:59:14]

gbee:

99–1 here

[13:59:26]

juski:

livetv & surfing is just SO last century :)

[13:59:44]

juski:

stop watching what they want you to watch when they want you to watch it :)

[13:59:47]

cal:

i mean come on.. if i sit down for 10 minutes i dont wanna watch a whole show.. just to eat or whatever. so i channel flip through things like the disovery channel and what not.

[14:00:09]

juski:

so you're not bothered too much what you're watching.. so why surf? ;)

[14:00:10]

gbee:

rarely need to surf, I've usually got something already recorded to watch

[14:00:33]

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[14:01:11]

gbee:

in the early days using mythtv actually freed up a lot of the time I would have spent watching TV – that didn't last long before I started spending that time writing code for mythtv or lurking in here :p

[14:03:00]

juski:

yeah can I get all these pointless hours back please? ;)

[14:03:03]

cal:

is mythtv going towards better slingbox – type capability too?

[14:03:12]

juski:

cal: placeshifting?? eew

[14:03:33]

cal:

heh

[14:03:39]

cal:

no one likes my ideas lol

[14:04:12]

juski:

placeshifting is great in theory, but wtf in their right mind wants to watch TV on a mobile device with a 2" screen?

[14:04:31]

cal:

me!!

[14:04:31]

directhex|work:

juski, are you suggesting the ipod with video isn't god's gift?

[14:04:37]

cal:

i watched a whole movie on my treo

[14:04:39]

juski:

directhex|work: er.. YES

[14:04:45]

juski:

cal: that's sad

[14:04:46]

cal:

on the plane

[14:04:50]

directhex|work:

juski, could be worse. cowon flash-based mp3 players with 0.8" screens have video playback

[14:05:07]

juski:

I can see 12 year olds being very into it

[14:05:16]

juski:

and I can see them tolerating very bad quality too

[14:05:50]

cal:

juski: last i checked you cant bring a 32" hdtv with you as a carry-on.

[14:06:16]

juski:

I just don't see home broadband being able to carry TV at sufficient quality for my needs, cheaply any time soon

[14:06:35]

juski:

cal: lol. I feel sorry for your poor eyes though

[14:07:27]

Dagmar:

You can bet they'd "search" it extensively before letting you on with it, too

[14:09:09]

juski:

dont get me wrong – I'm not a total luddite. I just don't see the point of a hell of a lot of _revenue_ _generators_ they're trying to pass off as 'must-have' tech

[14:10:20]

juski:

made me laugh my socks off when I saw the results of a dvb-h mobile TV trial in the UK. all the triallists loved it to bits apart from the quality (!) but everybody said they'd not want to pay a penny for it

[14:10:22]

gbee:

I might choose to watch some things through mythweb/flv when away from home, I've yet to see what the quality would actually be like though and whether it would be 'watchable'

[14:10:45]

juski:

gbee: mythstreamtv is pretty watchable over home BB link. not great though

[14:11:25]

juski:

that was 256kbit upload

[14:12:16]

gbee:

hmm, just remembered that I installed the 32bit flash player last week using nsplugin but I've yet to see what the new mythweb flashplayer is like

[14:14:21]

juski:

is streaming meant to work in the latest svn of mythweb?

[14:14:35]

gbee:

yeah

[14:14:55]

gbee:

although mythweb actually seems to be broken here (yay!)

[14:14:57]

juski:

I've got the latest (IIRC) flash player in firefox but it's not worky

[14:15:24]

gbee:

you've got ffmpeg installed on the webserver?

[14:15:28]

directhex|work:

it's meant to work? i haven't seen it.

[14:15:33]

juski:

gbee: ahh no

[14:15:35]

juski:

lol

[14:15:45]

juski:

I'll need the debian multimedia repo of it

[14:15:54]

juski:

since ubuntu's own is crippled

[14:16:25]

directhex|work:

those evil patent violators at debian-multimedia! :x

[14:18:09]

gbee:

mythweb is currently giving me "Unknown Programme" errors when I try to enter the recorded programme details page :(

[14:18:28]

** gbee sshs in to see if upgrading it would help **

[14:19:52]

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[14:21:27]

juski:

damnit can't switch my router to fwd port 80 to the other box

[14:25:14]

Fnc-1:

juski what kind of router you got?

[14:25:21]

juski:

befsr41

[14:26:09]

gbee:

hmm, no audio with the flash player

[14:27:18]

Fnc-1:

juski: you running the linksys firmware?

[14:27:35]

juski:

Fnc-1: I can only run with the linksys firmware

[14:27:49]

juski:

they didn't open source firmwares for wired routers :-P

[14:28:46]

juski:

must need a reboot

[14:31:03]

juski:

already got the latest firmware, dated 2004

[14:31:25]

juski:

sod it I'll go home & play with it there :)

[14:32:16]

juuva:

GreyFoxx: did you use multicast or http/rtp transport with vlc?

[14:36:03]

MavT:

gbee: I got around the no audio problem recently

[14:37:05]

MavT:

iirc I am using ffmpeg compiled from src. mythweb video is hardcoded to /usr/bin, my ffmpeg is in /usr/local/bin

[14:37:32]

Dagmar:

You _serioualy_ can't figure how to fix that?

[14:37:55]

Dagmar:

Ah nevermind

[14:41:10]

juuva:

Dagmar: (http) works for me, if you ment that.. just wondering if I could limit multicast so that it wouldn't leave from that server if it didn't got igmp join message

[14:42:30]

Dagmar:

No actually I was talking about the file path thing

[14:42:57]

MavT:

Dagmar: I fixed it no probs

[14:43:15]

MavT:

the fact that is was pointing to the wrong ffmpeg was my audio problem

[14:43:28]

Fnc-1:

juski: for some reason that model looked familiar... thought someone had some unofficial firmware... anyway... i did find this.. there was a 06 firmware.. here: http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?c=L_ . . . 997435852B01

[14:43:41]

MavT:

appears the default ubuntu (feisty) ffmpeg did not work with the flv

[14:45:14]

gbee:

MavT: that may be it then, I went with the packaged version of ffmpeg on the webserver

[14:46:11]

MavT:

check in the version if it was compile with --enable-libmp3lame

[14:46:27]

MavT:

I think this was the missing component

[14:50:59]

gbee:

don't think even the versions I've compiled from source were built against lame

[14:53:46]

MavT:

xris might be a better person to ask, if you can catch him

[14:53:54]

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[14:54:21]

gbee:

sure I will

[14:54:46]

gbee:

hopefully the dependancy on ffmpeg won't last long

[14:57:45]

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[15:09:48]

juski:

got the mythweb flv stuff worky. all it needs is an uncrippled ffmpeg

[15:10:35]

juski:

Fnc-1: that's for a v4 router, which I don't have

[15:10:38]

directhex|work:

i wonder whether the ubuntu package has had the flv code stripped, or whether i can just tweak debian/rules

[15:10:42]

juski:

mine's a v2 IIRC

[15:10:57]

juski:

directhex|work: debian multimedia ftw :)

[15:11:30]

directhex|work:

juski, i dislike using random packages unless i build them myself

[15:11:39]

directhex|work:

juski, plus i'm used to third party repos being i386-only

[15:11:41]

juski:

so just compile ffmpeg yerself

[15:11:58]

juski:

I've done that before for ffmpeg-with-nothing-disabled

[15:12:52]

directhex|work:

if i compile things myself, i prefer to stick them in a package if i can

[15:13:05]

** directhex|work doesn't believe in /usr/local **

[15:13:36]

juski:

directhex|work: nor do I

[15:14:17]

juski:

can somebody just have a go on jusftp.no-ip.org/mythweb/ please?

[15:14:53]

** directhex|work deletes juski's recordings **

[15:15:15]

juski:

my svn box

[15:15:32]

juski:

actually lemme just back up some recordings I want to keep

[15:16:23]

directhex|work:

it works, in case that wasn't explicit

[15:17:59]

juski:

arghh my stupid router letting me down again

[15:19:54]

Dagmar:

You'll have plenty of children's programming now

[15:20:26]

juski:

blimey. dma wasn't enabled on feisty.

[15:20:35]

juski:

wondered why the rsync was slow

[15:21:12]

juski:

when I've saved these recordings I'll leave it online unprotected & see what happens

[15:21:41]

Dagmar:

Should I do a destruction test on the thing?

[15:22:03]

Dagmar:

You know... something like a high-priority "Record at any time on any channel" with the letter 'e' as the search term?

[15:22:10]

juski:

rofl

[15:22:33]

juski:

that might just crucify it a little bit

[15:22:58]

directhex|work:

yay, i've got data going through both fibres o/

[15:23:20]

Dagmar:

Mmm... fiber

[15:23:26]

Dagmar:

keeps your throughput regular

[15:23:30]

juski:

Mmmm fibre

[15:24:01]

directhex|work:

been having issues since last week. i hate storage

[15:24:24]

directhex|work:

have only ever used one storage system that isn't pain, and that's because we bought the NFS front-end

[15:24:36]

juski:

<3 NFS

[15:24:53]

juski:

all network filesystems shall bathe in the shadow NFS creates

[15:25:18]

Dagmar:

Clearly you have yet to meet Andrew

[15:25:24]

directhex|work:

shame linux's nfs implementation is sorta sucky

[15:26:24]

Dagmar:

After years of brutalizing the Carnegie-Melon network with an NFS system so complex that you literally have to power on the entire campus within a 3-minute window, they switched to Andrew File System

[15:26:40]

juski:

oh dear. television X's EPG data seems to be missing descriptions

[15:26:46]

Dagmar:

Which means that now in addition to the three minute window, a psychic must be consulted

[15:26:57]

juski:

bit of a hassle when the titles aren't descriptive enough

[15:28:23]

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[15:28:37]

juski:

and er.. why are their shows only 20–25 mins long? ;)

[15:28:57]

Merlin83b:

Dagmar: Do you do any distributed file stuff?

[15:29:39]

Dagmar:

Merlin83b: Not even if you paid me would I mess with Andrew again

[15:30:02]

Dagmar:

AFS == That Which Must Not Be Named

[15:30:18]

Merlin83b:

The follow up question was something like what do you use if you do do that sort of thing :)

[15:30:35]

Dagmar:

I would rather take another crack at LVM over iSCSI

[15:30:44]

Dagmar:

THAT is how much I hate AFS

[15:31:39]

juski:

gbee: we need an EIT patch for television X

[15:31:50]

Merlin83b:

Dagmar: Not going to answer then? ;-)

[15:31:53]

juski:

it's putting the show's subtitle in the title

[15:32:12]

juski:

am only saying this so it can be right for the sake of completeness of course!

[15:32:19]

Merlin83b:

Of course! ;-)

[15:32:36]

Ruleke:

Merlin83b: gfs2

[15:32:40]

Dagmar:

I really would use LVM over iSCSI

[15:33:01]

LoneShadow:

Does it make sense to have an encrypted filesystem to store large media files ?

[15:33:08]

Ruleke:

took a look at ocfs2 too... but hey I'm talking parallel clusters

[15:33:11]

Dagmar:

Only if it's porno

[15:33:18]

juski:

LoneShadow: not unless you're worried about your mother / your kids seeing it

[15:33:31]

directhex|work:

and now we're bak onto television x :)

[15:34:00]

Merlin83b:

Ruleke: Got a link?

[15:34:04]

juski:

directhex|work: from what I've heard about UK pron, there's no doubt worse on myspaz/ youtube filmed by teenagers themselves

[15:34:15]

directhex|work:

well, yes

[15:34:16]

Merlin83b:

wikipedia is a disambiguation.

[15:34:20]

Ruleke:

Merlin83b: what sort of link ? :)

[15:34:21]

Dagmar:

Darnit, I just had the greatest idea for a recording schedule

[15:34:29]

directhex|work:

obscenity laws mean they can't show anything as shocking as sex on the sex channels

[15:34:34]

LoneShadow:

juski: I got into encrypting filesystems, but I read that enycrypted filesystems generally not recommended for files larger than 1 or 2 Gig

[15:34:34]

Merlin83b:

Ruleke: Homepage for GFS2, ideally?

[15:34:46]

Dagmar:

directhex: Not without charging you by the hour anyway

[15:35:01]

juski:

LoneShadow: it'd place unecessary load on your CPU.

[15:35:04]

LoneShadow:

though its an old article, was wondering if anyone ever did encryption in here

[15:35:11]

Dagmar:

Lots of us do

[15:35:16]

Ruleke:

Merlin83b: Ah yes it's the global filesystem on wiki... http://sources.redhat.com/cluster/

[15:36:02]

directhex|work:

people use gfs2? nobody's tried to sell it to me

[15:36:02]

juski:

I can see me having to put a hdparm -d 1 command into rc.local on this feisty box. wtf is up with that?

[15:36:10]

Merlin83b:

Thanks Ruleke, I'll have a read :)

[15:36:17]

directhex|work:

HP have one. SGI do too, though i think it's a rebadge

[15:36:20]

Ruleke:

We do for some parallel clusters

[15:36:21]

directhex|work:

lustre is free!

[15:36:33]

Ruleke:

well you could do opengfs

[15:36:34]

directhex|work:

well. if your time is worthless, blah blah blah ;)

[15:36:40]

Ruleke:

or one of the other in-kernel ones

[15:36:54]

Dagmar:

juski: 40-pin IDE cable? Missing suppport for your specific chipset in the kernel?

[15:36:59]

directhex|work:

IBM GPFS?

[15:37:07]

Dagmar:

juski: it really SHOULD always default to on

[15:37:09]

juski:

Dagmar: no, DMA works just fine

[15:37:18]

juski:

and I know it _should_ default to on

[15:37:31]

Dagmar:

So why would you have to do that with hdparm?

[15:37:41]

juski:

Dagmar: I dunno, it's not defaulting to on

[15:37:53]

Dagmar:

That can't be good

[15:37:56]

juski:

when I switch it on, it stays, and things is nice

[15:38:04]

Dagmar:

Unless you turned it off and then told it to keep that as the boot-up default

[15:38:12]

Ruleke:

directhex : I prefer gfs2 because it's posix compliant

[15:38:15]

juski:

I woulda remembered that

[15:38:26]

Dagmar:

I would have figured you would

[15:38:37]

Ruleke:

't is GPL anyways

[15:38:38]

Dagmar:

Maybe it's actually disabled by default in the BIOS?

[15:38:51]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, i've not been sold on parallel filesystems. honestly, as long as it works & has vendor support, i don't care – but that's hard enough a starting point :x

[15:38:54]

Ruleke:

we were considering using it in oracle rac too

[15:39:08]

Ruleke:

gfs2 is supported by redhat

[15:39:19]

juski:

Dagmar: no it's not disabled in the BIOS

[15:39:35]

Ruleke:

Merlin83b: gfs is meant to be a shared filesystem across nodes...

[15:39:57]

Merlin83b:

Oh. It reads like it's based around a single box of disks.

[15:40:05]

juski:

"...interlacing is used to allow cheaper monitors to perform at higher levels by giving the electron gun 2 chances to paint the screen...every second liine per pass. ".. oh perlease! wish all these cluetards would go away

[15:40:16]

Ruleke:

storage backend is the underlying layer... do what you want with that :)

[15:40:33]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, why would we deal with redhat directly? life's too short, and my workload too high. one vendor per system plz!

[15:40:45]

Ruleke:

well yes, HP

[15:41:15]

Ruleke:

I've worked at HP linux division, it ends up with redhat anyway if it's a defect ;)

[15:41:23]

Ruleke:

and why log an issue if it's not a defect ?

[15:41:25]

Ruleke:

rtfm :)

[15:41:50]

Merlin83b:

Ruleke: Ah right. Perhaps a level higher than I was looking – thinking up a system to store files across the disks in a network and present it all as one big thing.

[15:42:02]

Ruleke:

ah a distributed FS ?

[15:42:11]

Merlin83b:

That's my current thinking, yeah.

[15:42:14]

Merlin83b:

Gluster or something.

[15:42:20]

directhex|work:

HP need to decide whether they're in the market or not

[15:42:54]

juski:

you know that mystery phonecall I got for cecil the other day? just had another for Ludovic.. this is funny. they're a company following up enquiries from the linuxworld expo LAST OCTOBER! what kind of company takes er.. 8 months to get back to somebody?!

[15:43:06]

juski:

I told them where to go

[15:43:09]

Ruleke:

well in the olden days we did coda, afs or even intermezzo...

[15:43:19]

directhex|work:

pfft

[15:43:32]

directhex|work:

stick a few terabytes off a head node, NFS it out. job jobbed!

[15:43:42]

Ruleke:

except it sucks ;)

[15:43:42]

juski:

I should've asked who they were & named them

[15:43:43]

Merlin83b:

Ruleke: Yeah, read about all of those. Seems nobody has really used them though.

[15:43:50]

Ruleke:

I have

[15:43:51]

Merlin83b:

directhex|work: That's the easy option, yes :)

[15:43:58]

Dagmar:

Merlin83b: CMU has apparently been through them all

[15:43:59]

Ruleke:

not worth the effort most of the time tbh ;)

[15:44:14]

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[15:44:24]

juski:

anybody ever had a company take 8 months to return a call? lol

[15:44:33]

directhex|work:

juski, yes. HP, as it happens!

[15:44:43]

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[15:44:52]

juski:

pmsl

[15:45:10]

directhex|work:

think someone got fired over that

[15:45:12]

juski:

thank $deity they don't run any critical services in the UK then..

[15:45:28]

Ruleke:

I want to bet you didn't have mission critical support ;)

[15:45:38]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, this was sales!

[15:45:43]

Ruleke:

ah that explains it

[15:45:45]

juski:

oh then it only takes 4 months to get back to you

[15:45:48]

directhex|work:

Merlin83b, easiest, yes. the big question is scalability

[15:46:09]

Ruleke:

I'd be happy if they didn't call back... they'll only sell you stuff that doesn't work... after that, you log a support call and find out :)

[15:46:35]

Merlin83b:

directhex|work: Which if you go for a decent system is a matter of calling the vendor and saying "more space please"

[15:47:12]

directhex|work:

Merlin83b, yes. we splashed out on a system that's particularly easy to add disks or performance to, even for storage n00bs like us

[15:47:14]

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[15:47:14]

juski:

I've been looking all over to see if I can find a better deal on a 22" monitor than my local notoriously bad place.. no dice so far. though PC world will sell me a 22" model made by HP with a 4" wide bezel

[15:47:29]

Merlin83b:

directhex|work: What did you get, what do you use it for?

[15:47:41]

Merlin83b:

juski: MD aren't that bad! ;-)

[15:47:59]

directhex|work:

Merlin83b, a pillar axiom. and it'll mainly be used for user home areas

[15:48:01]

juski:

Merlin83b: they don't let you even look at stuff before spending big wonga

[15:48:27]

juski:

I wanted to see my LC02 case up close before buying & they said "you open the box you pay". evil sods

[15:48:35]

Ruleke:

It's clariion here for the stuff that isn't needed to survive a site failure... the clusters across sites are symmetrix

[15:48:41]

Merlin83b:

juski: Must depend on the person you talk to I guess.

[15:48:44]

directhex|work:

urgh

[15:48:52]

directhex|work:

we had so many problems with our old clariion it isn't funny

[15:48:58]

** Merlin83b adds pillar to the list of vendors to talk to. **

[15:48:58]

juski:

there's always scam.co.uk

[15:49:03]

Ruleke:

that's why we don't do srdf with it ;)

[15:49:11]

directhex|work:

in the end we got it stable by yanking the disks out and waving a vacuum cleaner inside

[15:49:17]

Ruleke:

lol

[15:49:19]

juski:

Merlin83b: I'd go with Aria if they sold ANY makes I'd ever heard of

[15:49:21]

Ruleke:

blame your site ;)

[15:49:33]

directhex|work:

and breaking our way in using assorted poorly documented backdoors rather than the broken emc config app

[15:49:37]

Merlin83b:

juski: Never been to them but I haven't bought any hardware for ages.

[15:49:54]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, blame dell! they shipped it to us full of system-crashing dust

[15:50:09]

juski:

!!NEW!! Fu-shroomictek 24" LCD panel 0.5ms 5000mcd, 100000:1 contrast only Â£100

[15:50:14]

Merlin83b:

I'd have sent it back. Had quotes of Dell since they're already our main supplier.

[15:50:19]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, why the *gently caress* would a storage system run xp, anyway?

[15:50:37]

Ruleke:

it does ?

[15:50:50]

Ruleke:

you mean the control interface ?

[15:50:54]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, sure. ours does anyway. clariion ax100

[15:51:00]

juski:

the panel I've got my beady eyes on is "Vista compatible" so it must be good. I feel like posting a Q on their forums asking if it'd work on Ubunut

[15:51:01]

Ruleke:

oh ok

[15:51:03]

directhex|work:

with a pair of xp embedded licenses glued to the top :)

[15:52:22]

Ruleke:

nono, it's symmetrix DMX-3 and clariion cx-3

[15:52:46]

Ruleke:

I think the clariion is a model 40

[15:52:55]

Ruleke:

well two of them are iirc

[15:54:04]

juski:

either way I like it

[15:54:40]

directhex|work:

is this fucking thing on?

[15:54:42]

directhex|work:

gah

[15:54:44]

Ruleke:

:)

[15:54:51]

directhex|work:

stupid xchat auto-replace :(

[15:55:05]

directhex|work:

doesn't match substrings

[15:55:50]

directhex|work:

i shall beat the *gently caress* out of this *tender loving* irc client

[15:56:15]

directhex|work:

there we go, #mythtv-users friendly!

[15:56:45]

directhex|work:

Ruleke, i'm mildly curious how the SAN front end to our pillar would behave, but fibre doesn't scale for us

[15:57:43]

juski:

directhex|work: the irony is what impresses me most

[16:01:07]

Ruleke:

hometime

[16:01:08]

Ruleke:

ttyl

[16:01:12]

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[16:03:36]

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[16:04:21]

juski:

bah

[16:06:48]

juski:

fuck shit

[16:06:51]

juski:

oops

[16:07:00]

gbee:

!

[16:07:01]

juski:

so this script doesn't work

[16:07:07]

juski:

I'll go test it somewhere else

[16:07:18]

** juski blushes & runs away **

[16:07:50]

Merlin83b:

Heh

[16:09:29]

juski:

hmm maybe this script only filters incoming text

[16:09:47]

juski:

actually no because my text was incoming at some point

[16:09:53]

juski:

rtfm time

[16:09:54]

Dagmar:

Trying to self-censor?

[16:10:20]

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[16:10:57]

juski:

format

[16:11:04]

juski:

Dagmar: jups

[16:11:56]

juski:

format?

[16:12:00]

juski:

bah

[16:14:38]

webman:

Hi all, I got a hauppauge Nova T-500 but can't seem to get linux to recognise it, can anyone give some hints (I read I need 2.6.19 or higher, so I am using 2.6.21.1)

[16:15:35]

webman:

even lspci doesn't seem to 'see' it (but XP pro can see it in the same machine)....

[16:15:37]

gbee:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppaug . . . va-T_500_PCI

[16:15:53]

juski:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppaug . . . va-T_500_PCI

[16:15:53]

gbee:

webman: it's there, it's listed as a USB controller

[16:15:55]

juski:

snap!

[16:16:22]

Dagmar:

Hint: lspci tends to not show many USB devices

[16:16:29]

gbee:

webman: it's basically two USB devices strapped onto a card with a USB controller, so lspci shows it as a usb controller device

[16:16:32]

juski:

lsusb might

[16:16:49]

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[16:17:00]

webman:

oh, ok, lsusb shows it !! :)

[16:17:17]

webman:

lemme read the page, hopefully from here it will be downhill....

[16:17:30]

juski:

a downhill struggle ?

[16:17:32]

juski:

;)

[16:18:30]

gbee:

Dagmar: heh – not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or not – mine shows 10 (ok so two with a bunch of sub-devices)

[16:18:43]

Dagmar:

Your lspci shows usb devices?

[16:19:28]

gbee:

Dagmar: it shows USB controllers aye, because they are connected to the PCI bus

[16:19:30]

webman:

no, lsusb showed the t-500... but you are right, lspci showed an extra USB 2.0 'hub/controller'

[16:19:31]

cal:

hmm if i switch to console and back sometimes the screen is black and no video

[16:20:13]

juski:

cal – so don't ?

[16:20:15]

gbee:

http://pastebin.ca/500423

[16:21:03]

Dagmar:

USB controllers are PCI devices, not USB devices.

[16:21:07]

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[16:21:45]

cal:

juski: lol i like how you resolve problems. =)

[16:21:55]

gbee:

!trout Dagmar

[16:21:55]

** MythLogBot slaps Dagmar with a trout on behalf of gbee... **

[16:22:10]

Dagmar:

Hey I was real specific for a reason

[16:22:25]

juski:

wow my word replacement thing worked just there

[16:22:25]

Dagmar:

I mean, the user was complaining they couldn't see their tuners through lspci, when they were USB devices

[16:23:13]

juski:

I like the trout :)

[16:23:32]

juski:

damnit it doesn't replace what i say -only what others say. that's bum

[16:23:41]

gbee:

juski: what word did it replace?

[16:23:47]

juski:

trout

[16:24:28]

Merlin83b:

lol

[16:24:28]

juski:

trying it out on innocent words now

[16:24:33]

Merlin83b:

Ah

[16:25:11]

juski:

!trout juski daft

[16:25:11]

** MythLogBot slaps juski with a daft trout on behalf of juski... **

[16:25:21]

gbee:

so if I ask it you want trout for dinner, you wouldn't know if I'd just asked whether you wanted a plate of manure or a delicious fresh caught fish?

[16:25:48]

juski:

yeah that really works for other people's text just not my own

[16:25:49]

juski:

sucky

[16:25:52]

Dagmar:

Are you sure your trout filter is working?"

[16:26:33]

juski:

Are you sure your tw** filter is working?"

[16:26:38]

juski:

is what I saw there

[16:27:39]

Dagmar:

Looks like I'll have to trout harder

[16:27:59]

juski:

harhar

[16:28:03]

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[16:28:19]

juski:

I want it to filter what I say. course it's no substitute for self control ;)

[16:28:48]

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[16:30:07]

Dagmar:

I think you're afraid to make people cry.

[16:30:16]

GreyFoxx:

Well, I started documenting my vlc multirec hack on the wiki this morning finally. But it looks like there might be a network recorder bug that causes mythbackend to stop all network communications

[16:30:32]

** Dagmar looks alarmed **

[16:30:34]

GreyFoxx:

It only occurs IF I'm streaming something from the backend when a recording starts

[16:31:04]

GreyFoxx:

But it's regular enough to be reproducable, except it never occured when I had -v all logging everything

[16:31:13]

GreyFoxx:

some sort of race condition

[16:31:29]

juski:

Dagmar: I think I'm sometimes deserving of my ill-gotten reputation.. and it's not the image I want to project

[16:31:49]

webman:

GreyFoxx: Just tell users to run it with -v all then :) It won't break while you are 'watching' ....

[16:31:57]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[16:32:01]

Dagmar:

Good plan

[16:32:06]

juski:

for one thing if my next employer ever looks me up & puts 2&2 together..

[16:32:23]

webman:

juski: then pick a better next employer....

[16:32:29]

GreyFoxx:

Well I've just updated svn again (was running a week old code) and am doing a debug compile so I can try to track it down as well :)

[16:32:50]

webman:

GreyFoxx: or you could do that...

[16:32:59]

juski:

webman: sometimes I'm a proper c*** & it'd be altogether better not to be even when the bugger deserve it

[16:33:39]

webman:

juski: yeah, but a good xyz is not always good at 'customer relations' .... in fact, almost never !

[16:33:55]

GreyFoxx:

when run normally mythbackend takes almost 0% cpu to record from he iptv recorder, but if I enable -v all, watch a show AND record something mythbackend shoots up to 15% cpu usage

[16:34:04]

webman:

so you need an employer that is willing to hire you for the skills you do have.. :)

[16:34:13]

GreyFoxx:

I didn't realize just how much the verbose logging affected things :)

[16:34:30]

webman:

GreyFoxx: what CPU do you have ??

[16:34:32]

juski:

webman: HR departments don't know the technical stuff. if they just see surly & rude it's bad news

[16:34:44]

GreyFoxx:

webman: That machine is an XP2500+

[16:34:49]

janneg:

GreyFoxx: try -v most

[16:34:54]

juski:

one thing internet searches never show you properly is context

[16:35:12]

GreyFoxx:

janneg: I'll try that as soon as I get back home (had to run to work again today)

[16:35:31]

janneg:

the DB queries are useless if you don't debug something db related

[16:35:34]

GreyFoxx:

IT's funny that the "lockups" only occur if I'm streaming something when a recording starts

[16:35:35]

juski:

I'm not saying I'm aiming to become an altruistic ass-kisser but ...

[16:35:36]

webman:

juski: well, maybe you shouldn't take what I say as 'the word' because I hired myself :) (ie, self-employed, which means if I'm rude to the customer, I don't get paid.... thats

[16:35:57]

webman:

that helps keep my tongue in my cheek instead of shooting my mouth off :)

[16:36:23]

juski:

yeah well the wage I receive from doing mythtv support doesn't help me keep my big gob shut ;)

[16:37:20]

webman:

juski: sometimes it is firghtening to see emails I sent 7 or more years ago still archived on the web and searchable through google.....

[16:37:55]

juski:

webman: I've had google remove some of the more memorable ones I could find

[16:38:04]

GreyFoxx:

webman: hehe I can still dig up code I have away 13–16 years ago and posts I made on newsgroups back then heh

[16:39:05]

juski:

gbee: gonna get to work reworking default-wide graphics shortly. I'll try to put them as one big lump

[16:39:40]

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[16:39:44]

webman:

juski: how do you get google to 'remove' things... they just index what other sites have archived ??

[16:40:18]

juski:

webman: or was it deja? anyway I had a usenet archive remove records of postings

[16:40:34]

juski:

google groups actually is the archive AFAIK

[16:41:40]

tank-man:

deja would hounor requests for removal i think

[16:42:52]

Dagmar:

Are you talking about nntp stuff?

[16:43:19]

webman:

yeah, NNTP :)

[16:43:29]

Dagmar:

You don't have to *ask* someone to remove a news article

[16:43:33]

Dagmar:

You just fire off a cancel message

[16:43:39]

cecil:

juski: perhaps it is someone from LinuxWorld wanting to know if we'll be at te next one...

[16:43:42]

GreyFoxx:

Hahaha man sometimes it's funny to read old newsgroup posts. like an argument over who'se asm uppercase/lowecase routines in asm were faster :)

[16:43:51]

tank-man:

not all servers honor cancel messages

[16:44:16]

Dagmar:

Then they're not likely to honor manual requests for the deletion of piddling little trivial messages either

[16:45:06]

juski:

cecil: no it wasn't. it was a company, not the LW folks. and if they take that long to return a call I'd not bother with em

[16:50:30]

juski:

if they ring again for Craig I'll get their company name

[16:55:46]

webman:

hmmm, is a 50% signal strength 'reasonable' ??

[16:56:47]

juski:

webman: 100% is better

[16:56:56]

juski:

I'd call 50% 'borderline'

[16:58:16]

webman:

juski: I've tried all sorts of signal amps, but never had much success with improving the signal.... It worked most of the time from the set top box, so hopefully it will be 'good enough' for the dvb card....

[17:00:15]

juski:

if you're in the UK try changing the aerial to a group 'W' or wideband (or 'for digital') model

[17:00:15]

webman:

If I cancel the scan part way through, will it save the part it has found already?? (it has found all the channels but is scanning *very* slow and only up to 37%)

[17:00:31]

** webman is in australia (it is 3am) **

[17:01:30]

janneg:

if it has found anything yet, yes

[17:03:25]

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[17:04:15]

juski:

zdzisekg: just the man. all the snazzy stuff you put in mepo-wide like the animations – how did you learn about that? you use so much undocumented stuff!

[17:04:43]

juski:

or is it that it's all documented in the source code? ;)

[17:04:44]

Aquahallic:

mornin' folks

[17:06:36]

zdzisekg:

juski, not sure how I came across it, but this is what I used for the "new" stuff. http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/wiki/MythUIThemeFormat

[17:07:59]

zdzisekg:

juski, for the old gui I used this as a "reference": http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . xmlparse.cpp

[17:08:35]

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[17:12:33]

Aquahallic:

anyone had problems installing ivtv on 2.6.20-r8

[17:12:38]

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[17:12:48]

juski:

zdzisekg: nice one! thanks for that :)

[17:14:05]

** juski goes back to redrawing default-wide **

[17:15:02]

webman:

hmmm, maybe my PC is too slow for this.... it is going *very* slow as soon as I did "Watch TV" as-in few minutes and still waiting for a "ps axf" output or is it likely something wrong ?? (HDD light is busy)

[17:21:08]

webman:

hmmm, how much memory does mythfrontend require for watching TV ??

[17:23:48]

webman:

actually, better, where does it log to by default ?

[17:24:07]

juski:

webman: by default it doesn't log

[17:24:34]

juski:

if / fills up all sorts of fun can happen

[17:24:36]

webman:

which part does 'the work' the backend or the frontend ?

[17:24:57]

webman:

I have 68GB free space .....

[17:25:49]

juski:

webman: depends. if you only own a hitty lamegrabber, the backend does most of the work

[17:27:10]

Dagmar:

s/hitty/shoddy/

[17:27:39]

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[17:27:56]

juski:

ffs I'm fixing mythcenter-wide now

[17:29:19]

webman:

is the hauppauge T-500 a 'crappy' framegrabber or is it 'decent'

[17:29:35]

juski:

it's not a lamegrabber at all :)

[17:29:49]

juski:

webman: what CPU are you using?

[17:30:14]

juski:

the kind of performance you describe would seem to indicate something around 500Mhz

[17:30:43]

juski:

or a faster CPU with an ATI VGA card – or a faster CPU with a nvidia VGA card but the open source drivers installed

[17:31:49]

webman:

I'm using a AMD Athlon XP /proc/cpuinfo says 1100MHz or 2200 bogomips

[17:32:07]

juski:

my 800mhz athlon does dvb-t just fine

[17:32:21]

juski:

so your system has something very very wrong with it

[17:32:39]

webman:

and a Trident Microsystems CyberBlade II on board graphics card... I'm using the VGA input on the TV for the time being, so no proper TV out

[17:33:06]

juski:

a WHAT?

[17:33:13]

directhex:

retrotastic!

[17:33:21]

webman:

I had 256MB RAM, and no swap, (I was using the swap partitiion for windows xp testing.....)

[17:33:22]

directhex:

we'll be on vesa if we're lucky :)

[17:33:40]

juski:

I think you might need the swap

[17:34:26]

webman:

yeah,. now I enabled swap, and also dropped in an extra 512MB RAM.... will try again, or do you think I should try xawtv first ?

[17:34:34]

juski:

eeeeeeeeeeeeew! minimalist-wide is yucky

[17:34:43]

directhex:

does xawtv even understand color, let alone dvb-t?

[17:34:54]

juski:

and it needs its graphics revamped

[17:35:01]

juski:

webman: kaffeine

[17:35:23]

juski:

so one theme uses the default-wide graphics. great

[17:36:08]

webman:

juski: I don't have any other graphics card (well, maybe a very old PCI S3 Trio64 or something).....

[17:36:35]

jams:

juski- thats the first -wide theme

[17:36:55]

directhex:

trident_drv.so

[17:37:08]

juski:

jams: and PG-wide was the 2nd ever I think.. oops.. 2nd ever 'free' theme ;)

[17:37:35]

jams:

heh right

[17:38:01]

directhex:

no Xv on a card that old by the look of it

[17:38:09]

gbee:

mythcenter-wide

[17:38:20]

directhex:

not sure if the CyberBlade il is older or newer than the TGUI96xx

[17:38:29]

gbee:

although I've no idea if it uses the default-wide graphics

[17:38:35]

juski:

gbee: it does

[17:38:35]

webman:

hmmm, I started mythfrontend, and it shows 367MB used memory (in the status screens)... is that normal ??

[17:38:52]

directhex:

what theme?

[17:39:14]

webman:

directhex: the default theme??? how do I see what theme I am using?

[17:39:57]

gbee:

Setup->Appearance

[17:41:40]

directhex:

Xv on cyberblades seems to be the exception, not the norm

[17:51:12]

webman:

OK, I seem to have managed to start a recording of a program, which it seems to be coping with.... can I watch the same recording or do I need to wait for it to finish recording ??

[17:52:34]

gbee:

webman: you can watch it as it records

[17:53:08]

webman:

gbee: just using the normal "watch TV" or through another menu ??

[17:53:10]

gbee:

Media Library -> Watch Recordings (or something like that)

[17:53:26]

webman:

gbee: it doesn't show up in there....

[17:53:34]

** gbee hasn't used the default menu in a long time **

[17:54:17]

gbee:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequent . . . ecordings.3F

[17:58:24]

webman:

I think I will need to grab a better graphics card from the office later today.....

[18:00:27]

gbee:

webman: something isn't right there, I get 20% load on average on an Athlon 1.4Ghz during playback

[18:02:32]

gbee:

it's not HD is it?

[18:05:31]

** directhex still thinks webman is using Xshm output **

[18:05:32]

webman:

gbee: I assume it is my crap video card..... I think it also might have been HD....

[18:05:53]

webman:

directhex: how would I check that?

[18:06:36]

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[18:09:34]

directhex:

webman, xvinfo is a good start

[18:10:03]

webman:

(--) Chipset vesa found <-- X log says it is using VESA

[18:10:10]

directhex:

oh god, no wonder it's not working

[18:10:39]

webman:

Oh, and it has 8MB memory for the graphics card

[18:10:44]

directhex:

set it to "trident" in xorg.conf. but generally, that's really not a good graphics chip, don't expect love and pancakes

[18:10:53]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[18:10:59]

directhex:

what resoluytion are you feeding it?

[18:12:09]

webman:

directhex: I think it is 1280x1024

[18:12:42]

directhex:

give it more memory. and use a real driver. not that i think trident_drv.so is much better, but you can't play videos with vesa

[18:12:55]

sphery:

For an SDTV box, an 8MB card is more than enough. 1024x768 only takes 2.25MiB at 24bpp or 3MiB at 32bpp.

[18:13:15]

sphery:

Also, webman, unless you have an LCD with 1280x1024 resolution, you're much better off using something else.

[18:13:17]

webman:

Actually, it is 1024x768....

[18:13:29]

sphery:

That's good for a 4:3 display.

[18:13:33]

webman:

it is a plasma.....

[18:13:39]

sphery:

wide screen?

[18:13:42]

directhex:

oh dear

[18:13:51]

webman:

is that a good resolution for that?

[18:13:58]

directhex:

no, a dreadful one

[18:13:58]

sphery:

is it wide screen?

[18:14:05]

webman:

yes, wide screen

[18:14:08]

directhex:

i've never seen a 4:3 plasma

[18:14:14]

sphery:

what's the plasma's native resolution?

[18:14:24]

Tanthrix:

Real men use native 1080P sets!

[18:14:40]

webman:

I think it support any of 640x480, 800x600 or 1024x768 (from the X log)

[18:14:52]

directhex:

webman, ignore the EDID values. they're almost always wrong from TVs

[18:15:14]

** sphery (a 1080p TV owner) thinks the difference between 720p and 1080p is irrelevant at today's screen sizes (even up to 103") at proper viewing distances. **

[18:15:18]

directhex:

webman, one problem at a time. stop using the VESA driver

[18:15:20]

juski:

webman: good luck playing HDTV on a 2ghz CPU..

[18:15:36]

directhex:

juski, one with 256mb ram and onboard trident graphics :)

[18:15:40]

sphery:

However, you do want to output at your TV's native resolution (i.e. 1080p for a 1080p TV or 720p for a 720p TV).

[18:16:17]

** webman upgraded to 768MB RAM .... **

[18:16:29]

directhex:

webman, stopped using VESA yet?

[18:16:35]

webman:

so I just change the "Driver" line in xorg.conf to trident ??

[18:16:43]

** juski goes back to thinking Trident is a toothpaste brand **

[18:16:45]

directhex:

in theory

[18:17:10]

juski:

gbee: default-wide is done now I finks

[18:17:27]

juski:

despite mythcenter-wide being the only one that uses it AFAICT

[18:17:38]

Tanthrix:

juski: I was thinking, maybe after your revamp I won't care about getting 1080P themes anymore if it looks smoother round the edges and such.

[18:17:48]

juski:

ah.. reminds me I need to send in my patch for mythcenter-wide

[18:17:55]

juski:

once it IS a patch anyway

[18:19:18]

sphery:

juski: I'm pretty sure Minimalist-wide uses some of the default-wide stuff.

[18:19:30]

sphery:

(Not as much as MythCenter-wide, but some.)

[18:21:14]

webman:

ok, using trident driver, but now even moving the mouse is very 'jumpy'..... not smooth like normal.... lemme try watching the recording

[18:21:42]

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[18:21:48]

** sphery thinks webman needs to do a man trident **

[18:22:50]

cal:

mythtv/x isnt using my whole tv screen... black around the edges. i adjusted the X and Y offsets in the myth setup and that doesnt change anything..?

[18:23:14]

sphery:

webman: specifically, look at things like SWCursor and ShadowFB

[18:23:43]

juski:

janneg, gbee http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3485

[18:23:58]

webman:

I assume I would be better off with a decent vga card though (ie, something more 'modern')

[18:24:04]

juski:

cal: you need overscan enabled in your TVout driver :)

[18:24:12]

sphery:

cal: If configured properly, Myth is using all of X. If X isn't using all of the display, it's probably because you have a "smart" TV that knows it's receiving a computer's output, so it scales the image so you can see MS's start bar.

[18:24:42]

cal:

ahh

[18:24:50]

sphery:

What type of TV do you have?

[18:24:51]

cal:

so how do i override that / enable overscan?

[18:25:00]

cal:

phillips 27"

[18:25:11]

cal:

tube

[18:25:12]

sphery:

CRT standard-definition TV?

[18:25:13]

juski:

cal: if you have a nvidia card, with a setting in xorg.conf – RTFM on the nvidia drivers

[18:25:16]

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[18:25:17]

cal:

yes

[18:25:28]

directhex:

okay sports fans, let's try and build mythfrontend.exe o/

[18:25:29]

juski:

sphery: but.. I can't see the MS start bar on my frontend!

[18:25:53]

sphery:

cal; Are you using S-Video or composite out?

[18:25:57]

cal:

svideo

[18:26:05]

sphery:

juski: lol. Me neither... THought my config was broken.

[18:26:20]

sphery:

OK, then you enable the overscan as juski said.

[18:26:31]

webman:

thanks very much for your help, I think I will wait until tomorrow when I can try a better VGA card.... I think I have some spare at work....

[18:26:47]

sphery:

cal, also, look at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Overscan

[18:26:53]

cal:

i dont like not having overscan on because video edges can be wavy / warped when having different brightness levels on the picture, if that makes sense

[18:27:02]

juski:

cal http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Overscan

[18:27:11]

sphery:

webman: if your source material is high-definition, you definitely need a better card.

[18:27:15]

juski:

cal: that's because your TV sucks

[18:27:32]

cal:

juski: thanks for the info, heh.

[18:27:34]

sphery:

and because NTSC/PAL suck

[18:28:02]

juski:

a lot of (cheap) TVs have rubbishy PSUs in them which means that a screen area of a given size will change in size if the brightness changes rapidly

[18:28:40]

juski:

poor regulation – which is understandable when you figure what's actually going on

[18:28:42]

webman:

sphery: ok, thanks... btw, since I only have a standard definition TV, can I get mythtv to reduce the recordings to standard def instead of wasting HDD and CPU with HD movies??

[18:28:55]

juski:

computer monitors are usually much more carefully designed :)

[18:29:14]

cal:

hopefully i can enable overscan *just* when watching video, but not in the mythtv menu's?

[18:29:31]

juski:

cal: no

[18:29:47]

juski:

cal: you need overscan at all times

[18:30:00]

sphery:

webman: transcoding HDTV is a very CPU-intensive proposition. It would take more than an hour per hour of recording to downscale from HDTV. Your best bet for stuff you're not keeping long term is to get a system that will handle the input material or find an SDTV-resolution source.

[18:30:10]

juski:

*under*scan is where you see black at the top, bottom or sides

[18:30:54]

cal:

thats what i have

[18:31:00]

cal:

i mean its not a lot, but its there.

[18:31:02]

juski:

cal: let me put it this way for you: if X doesn't fill the screen, there's *no* way in the world MythTV ever will!

[18:31:38]

juski:

cal: and if X doesn't fill the screen, there's also no way any video from mythtv is going to either!

[18:31:42]

cal:

justki: i know what you mean. but what I am saying is, underscan is NICE for x.. but not for video.

[18:31:53]

juski:

to hell with X

[18:31:56]

juski:

X on a TV sucks

[18:31:56]

cal:

i like to see the edges when in X

[18:32:03]

gbee:

cal, mythtv menus etc are designed to allow a certain amount of overscan without losing any important bits – e.g. buttons won't disappear off the screen

[18:32:14]

juski:

gbee: apart from the setup menus!

[18:32:31]

cal:

juski: true, but 640x480 is readable.

[18:32:37]

juski:

should I raise a ticket for that & see what happens? ;)

[18:32:58]

cal:

exactly. setup menus

[18:33:08]

juski:

hmmm... "setup menus do not obey safe areas...."

[18:33:18]

juski:

it'd be valid IMHO

[18:33:21]

cal:

so.. is it possible to overscan just on video then?

[18:33:27]

juski:

cal: nope

[18:33:33]

sphery:

juski: wouldn't that be a feature request without a patch? :)

[18:33:43]

juski:

sphery: I'd call it a fault

[18:33:52]

gbee:

juski: it would be valid, but no-one is really going to want to fix it because it's a fiddly job

[18:34:16]

juski:

gbee: I might take a look at it

[18:34:17]

Tanthrix:

With an nvidia card you can set overscan for TV out to your heart's content, then have myth overscan the video

[18:34:53]

juski:

Tanthrix: yeah BUT if you set overscan so that you see the whole of X on the TV out, myth is never gonna be able to fill the screen

[18:35:18]

Tanthrix:

With my old SD CRT set I was able to view my entire X screen, but I had the video overscanned (+2,+2) to avoid the mysterious blinking bars (closed captioning info?) on the top of the video

[18:35:21]

juski:

i.e. if you got borders in X, you get borders in mythtv & there's nowt you can do about it with mythtv settings

[18:35:39]

Tanthrix:

I had no borders – I just dragged the slider until it was perfect

[18:35:48]

Tanthrix:

I take it the person doing now isn't using an nvidia card..

[18:35:53]

juski:

very rare you can get X to fit exactly

[18:35:59]

juski:

*VERY* rare indeed

[18:36:15]

webman:

thanks all for your help..... I'm off to sleep now....

[18:36:28]

juski:

pfft

[18:36:29]

Tanthrix:

juski: The slider in nvidia-settings on GF4 and newer gives you complete control – how could it be difficult?

[18:36:36]

Tanthrix:

Perhaps with other cards.

[18:36:44]

juski:

fx5200

[18:36:45]

sphery:

I think the TV's the problem.

[18:36:51]

juski:

one slider for overscan

[18:37:11]

juski:

it was always slightly wider than it was tall so would fit exactly atthe sides but not top & bottom

[18:37:22]

Tanthrix:

Took me all of 4 seconds to get it perfect.

[18:37:30]

Tanthrix:

Sounds like you had something funky going on with your setup

[18:37:42]

juski:

and not the TV's fault either because a calibration DVD in a DVD player showed the screen dead centre

[18:37:54]

Aquahallic:

anyone seen this error in 2.6.20-r8

[18:37:55]

Aquahallic:

FATAL: Error inserting ivtv (/lib/modules/2.6.20-gentoo-r8/extra/ivtv.ko): Invalid module format

[18:38:09]

juski:

Tanthrix: maybe it's better with newer drivers. it's ages since I had nvidia in my livingroom

[18:38:13]

Tanthrix:

I've done this on three separate nvidia+linux boxes (would be be 4, but one of the ones I worked on was GF2 which doesn't support overscanning) and not once was it a problem

[18:39:06]

sphery:

I'm not saying your TV was improperly calibrated--just that SDTV's aren't designed to do that--so, as you said, it's nearly impossible.

[18:39:10]

juski:

Tanthrix: if it filled top & bottom, it'd lose stuff at the sides.

[18:39:14]

RaYmAn-Bx:

Aquahallic: is the module compiled together with the actual running kernel? (not just same version number)

[18:39:15]

Tanthrix:

Nowadays it Just Works – which always amazes me how people freak out about nvidia being proprietary. I'm thankful it all works as well as it does

[18:39:32]

Aquahallic:

yes I compiled all the modules into the kernel

[18:39:46]

juski:

you know what'd be cool? overscan control in mythtv – just poke the nvidia registers :-P

[18:39:57]

juski:

now there IS a feature request without a patch!

[18:39:59]

Tanthrix:

juski: Oh, I believe you – just sounds like some other kind of problem (IE, an issue with your output not being perfectly 4:3) – on all the systems I've used it on overscanning is a perfect zooming square, doesn't change the height / width separately

[18:40:12]

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[18:40:17]

RaYmAn-Bx:

Aquahallic: eh..if you compiled ivtv into the kernel, how do you plan on loading it? =P

[18:40:37]

Aquahallic:

so I shoudl go through and modularize all those?

[18:40:48]

sphery:

Tanthrix: Just works? GF4 is no longer supported by NVIDIA's most current drivers. With NVIDIA 9631 driver (most-recent "legacy" driver), Flash causes a kernel oops.

[18:40:56]

juski:

Aquahallic: in my experience everything V4L & DVB related should be modular

[18:41:03]

Aquahallic:

hmm

[18:41:04]

Aquahallic:

k

[18:41:09]

sphery:

Tanthrix: So, for me "just works" meant going out and replacing 2 GF4MX440's with GF6200's.

[18:41:12]

Aquahallic:

lemme try that... ty

[18:41:54]

juski:

IMHO only stuff bolted onto the motherboard should ever be built into the kernel, and even then...

[18:41:54]

Tanthrix:

sphery: Well, I wasn't saying that this is unique to the GF4, just pointing out that I know it to work fine with the GF4.

[18:42:17]

Zider:

sphery: I thought 7184 was the latest legacy?

[18:42:22]

Tanthrix:

sphery: So I would expect the overscan control to work just as perfectly for the newer models.

[18:42:53]

sphery:

Right. I'm just saying because of NVIDIA's proprietary (broken) code (not to mention Flash 9's proprietary (broken) code), my only available option was to get a new card. With open source, I can fix the bugs.

[18:43:24]

Zider:

7185 even

[18:43:38]

Tanthrix:

Zider: There are two legacy branches now, 9631 us the newer of the two. The older does super old cards

[18:43:46]

sphery:

Zider: I think those are the latest labeled legacy, but since they've recently end-of-life'd more GPU's, the most-recent driver supporting GF4 GPU's is 9631.

[18:43:48]

Tanthrix:

sphery: Oh, gotcha. True enough

[18:43:48]

Zider:

Tanthrix: I just noticed

[18:44:30]

Tanthrix:

sphery: Still, I just don't like biting the hand that feeds me – obviously things would be more ideal if nvidia opened the driver, but I'm not going to use some crappy OSS driver out of protest or anything

[18:44:35]

Zider:

sphery: well, look at my system then, I have a GF2MX.. it's a bitch getting decent overscan settings with that one :P

[18:44:52]

sphery:

Yeah. That would be tough.

[18:45:09]

Tanthrix:

sphery: I hear people talk sometimes like using the nvidia driver is akin to joining the Nazi party :P

[18:45:33]

sphery:

Oh, and I'm not saying I actually would have fixed the NVIDIA driver were it avialable to fix. The $30 x 2 is a lot cheaper than the time it would take to fix it.

[18:45:46]

Zider:

sphery: nvtv is really a horrible program :P

[18:46:04]

Tanthrix:

In any case, as far as I know, overscan shouldn't be an issue for anyone using composite TV out with a GF4 or newer. Now component / dvi is another matter, since there isn't any handy slider for those, and some bad HD sets do things they shouldn't do

[18:46:27]

gbee:

xris: I'm getting no sound with the new flash player. Know issue? User error?

[18:46:48]

sphery:

Tanthrix: I think it's not an issue if you adjust your expectactions to be reasonable for the design of TV's

[18:46:52]

sphery:

gbee: FlashSupport...

[18:47:26]

Tanthrix:

sphery: By the way, using a GF4 Ti4600 (borrowed from a friend since my GF4 440 couldn't do 1080P over DVI) does flash just fine

[18:47:33]

sphery:

gbee: http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flash_Pl . . . rt_for_Linux

[18:47:44]

gbee:

juski: ?

[18:48:19]

Tanthrix:

I might have an older version of flash though, assuming only the newer one is affected

[18:48:21]

juski:

gbee: feel free :)

[18:48:26]

juski:

it's my dustbin

[18:48:35]

sphery:

Other possibility is lack of MP2 support for ffmpeg on the backend

[18:48:38]

Tanthrix:

(And are you sure that's not a Adobe issue, as opposed to an nvidia issue?)

[18:49:11]

sphery:

Tanthrix: Yeah. When I downgraded to Flash 7, it worked. With Flash 9, it oopsed.

[18:49:25]

** gbee pokes around juski's myth box to see how the other half live **

[18:49:26]

sphery:

Unfortunately, Flash 7 caused other issues.

[18:51:02]

** sphery tries again without typos and directing the reply appropriately **

[18:51:04]

gbee:

sphery: ffmpeg is compiled with all the right options – just getting my head around this flashsupport business

[18:51:14]

sphery:

gbee: Other possibility is lack of MP3 support for ffmpeg on the backend

[18:51:26]

sphery:

OK. Those are the only two causes.

[18:51:31]

sphery:

that I know of

[18:51:38]

juski:

funny. I expected a major onslaught

[18:51:52]

sphery:

If it works on Windows, but not on Linux/Flash 9, it's FlashSupport

[18:51:56]

gbee:

so, they are supplying flash with components missing?

[18:52:03]

sphery:

If it doesn't work anywhere, it's MP3 support on the backend.

[18:52:08]

gbee:

sphery: don't have a windows machine to test with

[18:52:13]

sphery:

Yeah. No clue what they were thinking.

[18:52:21]

Aquahallic:

I compiled them all as modules and still getting the errors

[18:52:28]

sphery:

cool. I have one I can (but try never to) use.

[18:52:43]

Aquahallic:

getting invalid module format

[18:52:44]

Aquahallic:

:/

[18:52:44]

gbee:

but as I say, I've compiled ffmpeg against lame – I'll try the stream directly to be sure

[18:53:53]

** directhex checks out myth again, applies a diff **

[18:53:54]

sphery:

I think they planned to have proper ALSA support in Flash 9, but it was taking so long that they left it out. The FlashSupport was a last resort when they gave up. I have no idea why they don't distribute it, too.

[18:54:21]

directhex:

sphery, flash 9 uses ALSA only by default iirc. it definitely cares about the state of my /dev/snd

[18:54:35]

mishehu:

I guess they NEVER planned to have x86_64 support for flash player

[18:54:50]

sphery:

planned to, but don't :)

[18:55:15]

sphery:

directhex: do you have libflashsupport.so anywhere on your system?

[18:55:36]

Zider:

mishehu: they don't have a 64bit flash player at all IIRC

[18:55:55]

directhex:

sphery, read that page carefully. it's OSS that requires flashsupport

[18:56:00]

Zider:

mishehu: I think it was something about it containing LOTS of ASM code that would be a bitch to port

[18:56:00]

sphery:

Right.

[18:56:52]

sphery:

But, from what I read elsewhere, the Flash 9 plugin for Mozilla on Linux does /not/ support ALSA, so you have to have OSS support.

[18:57:00]

directhex:

you read wrong

[18:57:05]

Zider:

it works fine with alsa here :P

[18:57:15]

sphery:

directhex: Do you have that lib on your system?

[18:57:19]

directhex:

no!

[18:57:20]

Zider:

even with dmix, if you fiddle a bit with .asoundrc

[18:57:45]

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[18:59:26]

gbee:

ugh, dependancies

[18:59:51]

directhex:

gbee, you think you've got problems? i'm playing with cygwin!

[19:00:37]

** juski checks nvidia tvout & sees if deinterlacing is still necessary **

[19:01:32]

directhex:

so far it's building :x

[19:02:32]

gbee:

juski: at some point we should discuss what hardware will be needed for LRL and who will be supplying which bits (obviously we've got a bit of time)

[19:04:02]

juski:

news24 in livetv, deinterlacing _dis_ abled – news ticker looks perfect

[19:04:16]

juski:

how the CHUFF?!

[19:04:39]

juski:

either nvidia are outputting a properly interlaced signal for the telly or erm...

[19:05:02]

juski:

yeah either nvidia are outputting a properly interlaced signal for the telly AND the fields just happen to be always in the right order

[19:05:11]

juski:

or else.. erm... I'm stuck

[19:05:39]

directhex:

nvidia++ ?

[19:06:02]

gbee:

oh F*&K

[19:06:35]

gbee:

I've got built and got this lib installed, then realised I was using the wrong window and I've done it on the wrong machine

[19:06:37]

juski:

aha! it's the flicker filter!

[19:06:58]

juski:

turn the tv output flicker filter down to zero & it looks gash

[19:07:04]

juski:

gbee: er.. whoops

[19:07:34]

gbee:

doesn't really help that I've currently got ssh connections to five different machines open

[19:08:16]

juski:

gbee: as for the gear.. I can bring my nice new monitor which I'll have by then, a 160GB USB HDD with some nice stuff on it, maybe my dustbin fitted with pvr150 & a video camera

[19:09:06]

directhex:

blarp, why doesn't cygwin include dsound.h ?

[19:09:16]

juski:

oh also 100mb switch & cabling.. also my serial remote doodah

[19:09:32]

sphery:

gbee: I just removed -licuuc from the cc command. Not using ICU, anyway. (Probably too late for you. :)

[19:10:08]

gbee:

sphery: did that already after deciding that whatever icu is, I don't want it

[19:10:41]

gbee:

but there are some 64bit compilation issues

[19:11:00]

juski:

that nvidia flicker filter is ace!!!!!

[19:11:18]

juski:

no more deinterlacing (tm)

[19:11:18]

gbee:

thinking about it, I should probably compile it as 32bit because flash isn't going to load it as a 64bit lib anyway

[19:11:35]

juski:

I should add this on the wikiwiki

[19:12:10]

gbee:

juski: I needed deinterlacing for PVR captured stuff to prevent jagged edges/tearing (or whatever you want to call the effect I was seeing)

[19:13:07]

gbee:

I probably wouldn't have needed the deinterlacing were I not using an interlaced modeline – but then the interlaced modeline improved the DVB image 100%

[19:13:15]

** gbee shrugs **

[19:13:42]

gbee:

don't really understand, nor do I care so long as it works

[19:14:08]

directhex:

okay, on with the win32 build :)

[19:14:17]

directhex:

another mid-build snafu fixed

[19:14:24]

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[19:15:01]

thoraxe:

directhex are you building myth for win32??

[19:15:33]

juski:

gbee: no deinterlacing is enabled. interlaced material looks fab on the TVout !!

[19:15:57]

juski:

I always test with the news24 ticker. if that looks fine, all is well with the world

[19:16:33]

gbee:

meh, if I need to compile flashsupport as 32bit then I need 32bit libs for all the dependancies, which I can't be bothered to install

[19:16:55]

** gbee looks into copying the compiled lib over from his 32bit machine **

[19:17:02]

Tanthrix:

juski: Stop being so damned happy about it, it only works on composite / s-video out, so it makes me sad that I can't use it

[19:17:12]

gbee:

juski: cool

[19:17:14]

Tanthrix:

:P

[19:17:23]

juski:

Tanthrix: meh

[19:17:45]

juski:

Tanthrix: roughly this time last year I noticed it for the first time but never investigated _why_

[19:18:45]

Tanthrix:

juski: Well, from what I understand the flicker filter is just a hardware deinterlacer. From what I hear a damned good one at that (probably adaptive and such)

[19:18:58]

juski:

oh yeah! blootube fits the TV screen perfectly with the screen juust filled by overscan

[19:19:26]

juski:

have to say.. it looks spiff on TV mind

[19:20:03]

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[19:20:06]

Tanthrix:

Gotta run, I'm off

[19:21:04]

juski:

seriously.. I just rattled blootube out & I'd never even seen it on a telly til now!

[19:21:49]

gbee:

juski: I can supply my laptop either as a backend or frontend (it's ready to go as a frontend, backend will need some advance warning)

[19:22:21]

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[19:22:23]

gbee:

it has tv-out, but if your bringing a monitor instead of a TV that's not so important

[19:22:29]

juski:

gbee: frontend will be fine

[19:22:34]

juski:

I'm not bringing anything CRT

[19:22:46]

juski:

though stuarta has said he could bring his mini

[19:24:04]

gbee:

right, well if he does that can be hooked up to the monitor

[19:24:23]

juski:

yup

[19:24:34]

juski:

damn!

[19:24:39]

** juski pinches himself again **

[19:24:56]

juski:

why don't STB UIs look like smart?

[19:25:31]

** gbee runs that question through babelfish **

[19:25:57]

Zider:

I want Sharps latest plasma-TV

[19:26:18]

Zider:

err, TFT-TV even

[19:26:35]

** juski meant to ask why STB UIs don't look as smart as MythTV's **

[19:27:02]

juski:

even if blootube's watermarks _are_ sucky

[19:27:33]

cal:

watermark?

[19:27:43]

cal:

is that transparency?

[19:27:46]

juski:

the graphics that appear next to the buttons

[19:27:54]

juski:

they're known as watermarks

[19:28:05]

cal:

i was wondering if i can make the channel info at the bottom when browsing transparent

[19:28:17]

juski:

cal: not if you use Xvmc

[19:28:29]

cal:

ahh

[19:28:40]

juski:

oops not if you use Xvmc & the colour OSD hack

[19:28:49]

cal:

why the heck does myth use xvnc anyway? thats a remote computer software.. i am not running remotely.

[19:28:56]

juski:

rofl

[19:29:03]

juski:

X V M C

[19:29:06]

juski:

not V N C

[19:29:09]

cal:

oh

[19:29:14]

cal:

haha =)

[19:29:28]

juski:

X Video Motion Compensation – helps offload mpeg2 decoding from the CPU

[19:29:53]

cal:

no idea if i am using the hack

[19:29:59]

cal:

i am running the latest knoppmyth

[19:30:02]

juski:

gbee: done playing? I honestly thought my machine woulda been pounced on

[19:30:07]

mishehu:

Zider: why would they so heavily depend on ASM on Flash Player?

[19:30:22]

juski:

cal: if xvmc is enabled & the OSD is colour, then you're using the hack

[19:30:35]

gbee:

juski: oh yeah, got sidetracked ages ago ;)

[19:30:46]

Zider:

mishehu: I have no idea, but apparently it does.

[19:30:49]

cal:

but as much as i had to customize this thing, i wonder why i used knopp at all. would prolly lose it all if i upgraded.

[19:30:58]

Zider:

mishehu: well, if you believe the developer that is ;)

[19:31:48]

juski:

I hope to $deity we're not gonna be asked about linuxmce much at LRL

[19:31:57]

juski:

I'll lose the will to live if we are

[19:32:08]

Zider:

LRL?

[19:32:19]

juski:

LUGradiolive 2007

[19:32:29]

juski:

www.juski.co.uk

[19:32:36]

Zider:

ahh

[19:33:12]

juski:

big up the OSS massive!

[19:33:34]

juski:

damnit we need more publicity about this. nobody paid any heed to the ML post

[19:33:48]

juski:

it's been dugg no less than seven (!) times

[19:34:06]

cal:

juski: dont see vmc in the process list.

[19:34:12]

juski:

though come to think of it, it got dugg more times last year _after_ the event

[19:34:16]

gbee:

hmm, I not sure how I can even tell if the flash player is finding the support lib – it's not working if it is

[19:34:31]

mishehu:

Zider: from the code I see in various codecs and ffmpeg and other places, teh asm is actually rather limited.

[19:34:37]

juski:

cal: XvMC is an mpeg2 decoding method. you set its use in utils/setup > setup > tv settings > playback

[19:34:40]

mishehu:

I guess flash is for dummies ;-)

[19:34:55]

juski:

mishehu: that's what the yellow book says

[19:35:21]

cal:

juski: so i can just switch that to something else, then get transparency?

[19:35:35]

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[19:35:43]

gbee:

the audio is crap in the flash video, should be able to use a higher bitrate audio, surely?

[19:36:10]

juski:

cal: no. the OSD theme is what determines how 'browse' mode looks. if the OSD theme graphics aren't transparent, you won't be able to see the TV behind them

[19:38:16]

juski:

or is all flv destined to look like shite?

[19:38:18]

cal:

are there more themes somewhere than the wiki shows?

[19:38:32]

gbee:

juski: for now it probably involves hacking the source – I'll take a look

[19:38:35]

juski:

cal: yes, but the only themes worth knowing about are listed in the wiki believe me!

[19:39:27]

juski:

search the internet for 'leafers-wide' to find out what I mean

[19:40:35]

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[19:40:46]

juski:

http://cscl.alasu.edu/MYTHTV/Leafers-wide-screenshot.jpg

[19:40:49]

juski:

nice!

[19:41:17]

cal:

juski: i can belive that.

[19:41:46]

cal:

i like bootoobe except for it's channel guide

[19:41:56]

sphery:

juski: The flash audio and video bitrate and resolution is set directly in the

[19:42:00]

sphery:

PHP source

[19:42:04]

cal:

it doesnt seem as polished looking as it could be. just me i guess.

[19:42:40]

juski:

cal: so you're talking to its creator here.. be more specific

[19:42:52]

juski:

sphery: figured as much. ta

[19:42:52]

gbee:

bah, I can't get the audio working – the solution is probably simple, but I don't know what I'm missing

[19:42:52]

cal:

ahaha! *hides*

[19:43:06]

juski:

cal: I'm not yelling at you – just spill!

[19:43:21]

directhex:

it's insufficiently cute!

[19:43:23]

directhex:

*hides*

[19:43:25]

** jams chuckles **

[19:43:27]

juski:

cal: constructive criticism is welcome

[19:43:39]

cal:

the one killer for me is the look of the < > signs

[19:43:42]

juski:

I personally think the watermarks stink of poo

[19:43:45]

sphery:

gbee: I'm currently trying to see if I can get it working without libflashsupport. I'm currently looking into the FIREFOX_DSP...

[19:43:46]

juski:

cal: I agree

[19:44:01]

juski:

cal: any others?

[19:44:01]

cal:

they need to be bolder.. and smaller.. i think that would fix it

[19:44:14]

juski:

hell I could fix em now

[19:44:22]

juski:

let's see...

[19:44:23]

cal:

sec, let me go look at it again quick

[19:44:44]

juski:

yeah you mean those awful faded triangles I bet

[19:45:18]

juski:

svn export /usr/share/mythtv/themes/blootube

[19:45:59]

gbee:

juski: I *like* the watermarks, well most of them ... the ones without text super-imposed on them (I did swap a couple around for that reason)

[19:46:30]

cal:

yeah

[19:46:30]

fysa:

Just started using an IR/RF transmitter here and I'm getting this funky echo with lirc. I do a command on the remote, and that command repeats over and over for several minutes. Anyone have a problem with this?

[19:46:36]

juski:

gbee: watermarks could be much better IMHO

[19:46:47]

juski:

my icon drawing has come along a lot since then :)

[19:46:55]

cal:

you fixed it already?

[19:47:00]

juski:

cal: not yet

[19:47:12]

juski:

cal: you did mean the triangles didn't you?

[19:47:20]

gbee:

mostly I like the size of the watermarks and the fact that they appear intergrated with the background, rather than just floating somewhere to the left/right of the menu options

[19:47:33]

cal:

they are the < > signs that show there is programming to the left and right of what you see on the screen

[19:48:05]

cal:

not full triangles, just < and >

[19:48:18]

cal:

maybe knoppmyth has an older version of the theme?

[19:48:43]

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[19:48:45]

juski:

maybe

[19:48:54]

juski:

blootube yeah, not -wide or lite-wide

[19:49:15]

gbee:

that's the reason why blootube-lite etc never really appealed the same way the original did, the curve was a distinctive and unique styling – so those lightweight/4:3 versions just weren't the same imho

[19:49:16]

cal:

do what?

[19:49:22]

cal:

i am not using wide

[19:49:50]

juski:

gbee: 4:3 doesn't have as much screen space to devote to fancy images ;)

[19:49:54]

cal:

blootube is the best IMO though

[19:50:02]

juski:

cal: see http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/screenshots/bt8.jpg

[19:50:07]

juski:

that's how it is at the moment

[19:50:43]

cal:

thats a lot better

[19:50:57]

juski:

jees. how old is the one you've got?

[19:51:04]

cal:

that has no tv screen in the corner though

[19:51:09]

juski:

ahh

[19:51:12]

juski:

the LIVE tv guide

[19:51:15]

juski:

lemme see

[19:51:27]

cal:

where the heck is THAT guide at?

[19:51:34]

juski:

in LIVE tv :)

[19:51:44]

cal:

no i mean the guide you showed me

[19:51:58]

juski:

that's the regular programme guide

[19:52:02]

cal:

is that a guide off the myth menu? i spose it is

[19:52:04]

gbee:

Schedule Recordings -> Programme Guide

[19:52:07]

cal:

k

[19:52:19]

juski:

manage recordings > schedule recordings > programme guide

[19:52:25]

cal:

in my mind they shouldnt be much different

[19:53:29]

cal:

okay my icons are the < and > on that too. not triangles

[19:53:38]

directhex:

groupsock/GroupsockHelper.cpp:477: error: aggregate `ip_mreq_source imr' has incomplete type and cannot be defined

[19:53:42]

directhex:

any guesses?

[19:53:45]

cal:

the latest knoppmyth should use the latest stuff.. grr =)

[19:53:48]

esperegu:

saluton chiuj!

[19:54:09]

esperegu:

I was asked to paste log output.... so here it is:

[19:54:11]

esperegu:

http://pastebin.ca/500891

[19:54:44]

esperegu:

Anduin: u around?

[19:54:50]

cal:

juski: how do i install your latest theme?

[19:55:40]

juski:

cal: www.juski.co.uk – click on blootube page, then follow the instructions after downloading the tarball

[19:55:50]

cal:

sweet

[19:56:10]

cal:

but the trangles yea.. make them smaller in the next release

[19:56:45]

cal:

even after seeing the latest screenshot they look pretty big?

[20:00:04]

cal:

are you going to do a transparent version?

[20:00:30]

kash:

i like mepo

[20:01:11]

sphery:

directhex: Would you do me a favor, please? If you ldd your firefox-bin executable, do you see libasound in there?

[20:01:26]

directhex:

sphery, i'm in the wrong os right now

[20:01:56]

esperegu:

nobody can help me fix that error?

[20:02:04]

sphery:

directhex: OK. Thanks, anyway.

[20:02:47]

sphery:

Zider: Did you say you have Flash 9 sound working (on Linux) without libflashsupport?

[20:03:21]

Zider:

sphery: I don't even know what libflashsupport is

[20:04:19]

sphery:

So, if you were to do a "locate libflashsupport.so", it wouldn't show up? :)

[20:04:28]

directhex:

sphery, what happens if you run ldd on the libflashplugin.so ?

[20:04:36]

sphery:

No libasound

[20:04:48]

directhex:

sphery, not found, nor not searched for at all?

[20:04:49]

sphery:

I tried that, that's why I'm thinking the only other place it could be is in firefox-bin

[20:04:53]

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[20:04:59]

Zider:

sphery: I don't have 'locate', so no.. ;)

[20:06:15]

sphery:

directhex: ldd output at http://pastebin.ca/500914

[20:07:45]

sphery:

Otherwise, they'd have to use static libs which may be the reason it only works with OSS API for some.

[20:07:53]

directhex:

wait, i remember this

[20:08:00]

directhex:

install libasound-dev

[20:08:21]

Zider:

sphery: flash here uses alsa directly, I don't have any sound server of any kind

[20:08:22]

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[20:09:12]

sphery:

directhex: I have libasound installed--including all development headers. (My entire system is compiled from source.)

[20:09:16]

juski:

cal: I'll see what I can do with the arrows

[20:09:33]

directhex:

sphery, your user has write access to everything in /dev/snd ?

[20:09:36]

sphery:

I'm wondering if I should have enabled some mozilla option for ALSA support in the browser

[20:09:48]

sphery:

Yep. audio group with rw to all devices in /dev/snd

[20:10:20]

Zider:

sphery: http://pastebin.ca/500927

[20:10:54]

sphery:

thx

[20:11:09]

Zider:

np

[20:12:31]

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[20:12:36]

esperegu:

can somebody give me a hand on fixing recording? (live tv works without a problem but when I schedule a recording it fails)

[20:13:44]

sphery:

esperegu: You have a broken input connections configuration. See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034

[20:15:21]

esperegu:

sphery: damn... that would mean that I have to enter all channels again by hand.

[20:15:30]

sphery:

Hmmm. No libasound in Zider's ldd firefox-bin, either.

[20:15:44]

sphery:

esperegu: entering them by hand is probably what caused the broken config. :)

[20:16:10]

esperegu:

sphery: no. it worked before. I have added another capture card and harddisk

[20:16:11]

directhex:

i think it doesn't actually *link* libasound2, because that would cause it to die on systems without it. instead, it loads it at runtime

[20:17:10]

sphery:

esperegu: I'm guessing you're not in North America, and if not, I can't help with the proper approach for configuration, but maybe someone else can if you let them know where you are.

[20:17:32]

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[20:17:49]

sphery:

directhex: Which would also be a "hack" that would make it very likely to fail if a system isn't designed the way they expect.

[20:18:04]

directhex:

sphery, correct! :)

[20:18:16]

esperegu:

sphery: Amsterdam ;-)

[20:20:21]

directhex:

/#include "config.h"

[20:20:24]

directhex:

and we're off again!

[20:20:28]

directhex:

/

[20:20:29]

directhex:

//

[20:20:31]

directhex:

that's better

[20:21:20]

** sphery should definitely be watching more interesting youtube clips for testing... **

[20:25:10]

Zider:

sphery: don't you get any audio at all?

[20:27:41]

juski:

cal: uploading a new tarball now

[20:28:19]

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[20:28:19]

directhex:

fail. mythfrontend.exe does absolutely nothing

[20:28:23]

directhex:

:(

[20:30:50]

juski:

:D

[20:31:48]

directhex:

i mean literally nothing. well. return code 53, but nothing otherwise

[20:31:50]

juski:

blootube themes have been updated

[20:32:53]

directhex:

sniff

[20:32:58]

directhex:

well, back to loonicks

[20:34:23]

sphery:

Hmmm. Now I'm really confused. I'm getting sound with or without libflashsupport.so.

[20:35:14]

directhex:

which is normal. flashsupport adds OSS

[20:38:08]

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[20:38:22]

hadees:

has anyone setup mythdvd to rip to the "scene standard" aka videos that fit on one cd? I'm not asking for pirating or anything, i just like to keep my dvdrips at manageable sizes and i think the scene standard is pretty good

[20:40:55]

cal:

juski: sweet, thanks

[20:41:22]

esperegu:

sphery: I deleted all capture cards and that seems to work also

[20:42:37]

cal:

who knows much about mythlcdserver?

[20:43:29]

juski:

cal: the blootubes needed those graphics changed anyway, so all you did was gimme a wee push ;)

[20:43:54]

cal:

trying to config it so station is at the top and clock is on the bottom..instead of the buffer-bar thing.

[20:44:09]

cal:

juski: haha, okay. i really do like your theme, thanks

[20:44:10]

sphery:

directhex|work: Yeah. I mean that I have never before been able to get sound to work without libflashsupport before.

[20:44:40]

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[20:46:04]

gbee:

sphery: if you work out how you fixed it, let me know

[20:46:35]

gbee:

doesn't work in either opera or firefox atm

[20:47:09]

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[20:47:26]

juski:

cecil: blootube, blootube-wide, blootubelite-wide & neon-wide have been updated in the last couple of days. check dem out ;)

[20:47:37]

** directhex has failed. FAILED! :( **

[20:48:09]

juski:

directhex: look on the bright side. least it means windows users won't be tainting us with their stupidity for a while yet

[20:48:37]

directhex:

juski, if any of them manage to build the frontend and have it work, i say they deserve admiration!

[20:48:58]

gbee:

it doesn't matter too much, who will even be using windows in a couple of years?

[20:49:13]

juski:

it only takes one intelligent person to build it & millions of thickies can use it

[20:49:15]

cal:

juski: you changed blootubelite too?

[20:49:28]

juski:

cal: changed all the blootube themes

[20:49:29]

sphery:

gbee: I'm thinking that when I originally set it up and used FlashSupport, I was using the FlashPlayer 9 beta. Now I have FlashPlayer 9.0.31.0, and when I upgraded I didn't even think to check whether ALSA support worked.

[20:49:37]

** gbee ignores the newbie who just PM'd him **

[20:49:41]

cal:

k

[20:50:00]

directhex:

juski, it takes a lot of extra work from "builds in cygwin" to ".msi installer"

[20:50:04]

gbee:

sphery: hmm, can't remember what version I've installed but that's probably the problem

[20:50:22]

sphery:

gbee: which ALSA do you have? >1.0.9?

[20:50:39]

juski:

directhex: that's what I call good distance :)

[20:51:15]

gbee:

sphery: assuming the version number of alsamixer reflects alsa as a whole it's 1.0.14

[20:51:52]

directhex:

RCsomething

[20:52:02]

sphery:

Should be (unless something weird is up with your package manager).

[20:52:10]

directhex:

you want /proc/asound/version

[20:52:35]

sphery:

Anyway, the only other thing I could think of was rate, but ALSA >1.0.9 enables automatic rate conversion for software sound cards.

[20:53:36]

gbee:

hmm, no already got 9.0.31.0 installed

[20:54:03]

gbee:

heh, Advanced Linux Sound Architecture Driver Version 1.0.12

[20:54:35]

sphery:

gbee: Sorry about the FlashSupport diversion. It's definitely not required. I even rebooted my system (a never fail LD_UNLOAD) and tried it after never having loaded libflashsupport.so.

[20:54:54]

hadees:

is there anyway to change how mythdvd rips? or am i locked into only 3 choices?

[20:55:29]

sphery:

gbee: Might want to upgrade all of your ALSA (drivers, lib, utils, oss, plugins, and possibly tools) to the same version.

[20:56:08]

Anduin:

hadees: If you mean change the transcode profiles, only by hand, feel free to submit a patch.

[20:57:16]

hadees:

Anduin, yeah thats what i mean, i would love to submit a patch but frankly Qt programming confuses the hell out of me

[20:57:30]

hadees:

one of these days though i'll get around to learning it so i can do some stuff with mythtv

[20:57:37]

hadees:

maybe i should start small

[20:58:03]

hadees:

but thats another issue

[20:58:03]

Anduin:

hadees: That is ok, there would be very little Qt, just Myth UI stuff (which confuses everyone), and basic C++.

[20:58:20]

juski:

oo eck. BBC HDTV public value test started today :)

[20:58:30]

hadees:

Anduin, oh i didn't know they switched it over, so how do i learn Myth UI

[20:58:43]

hadees:

i guess going through the code

[20:59:00]

juski:

directhex: you've got competition here fella :-P

[20:59:16]

Anduin:

hadees: Well, Qt is still there, you don't use it for the UI directly though.

[20:59:44]

hadees:

i figured that

[20:59:54]

Anduin:

hadees: and yes, there are a number of other places to look for examples in Myth

[21:00:07]

directhex:

myth's code is highly variable. some bits you look at and think "wonderful!", others you sit and rock in the corner mumbling "what does it MEAN? :'("

[21:00:39]

Anduin:

Yeah, it is like it is some large project, worked on by many, over some longish period of time!

[21:00:39]

directhex:

or "why the hell? :x"

[21:00:45]

directhex:

oh, undoubtedly#

[21:01:20]

directhex:

i love the way myth deals with settings. want to know why myth has so meny settings and config screens? because it's so goddamned easy to add them ;)

[21:01:35]

hadees:

do the mythtv developers do code reviews?

[21:01:57]

directhex:

lack of comments is sub-optimal in some of the more awkward code sections, too

[21:02:02]

mIRCat:

Well it was nice of directhex to volunteer his time to clean up the code for us.

[21:02:24]

gbee:

hadees: you mean refactoring old code to clean it up etc?

[21:02:29]

mIRCat:

His efforts will most liekly n some way be appreciated

[21:02:47]

directhex:

mIRCat, i would, if you document it first so i don't do anything wrong whilst cleaning up ;)

[21:02:49]

hadees:

gbee, well part of it

[21:03:05]

hadees:

directhex, thats easy enough, if mythtv stops working right then you screwed up

[21:03:07]

sphery:

So, directhex , thanks for setting me straight on FlashSupport. I'm glad to get it off my system.

[21:03:17]

mIRCat:

I've already scheduled it in during my 2010 free period

[21:03:27]

Anduin:

directhex: docs are better than they were and dtk is mostly to thank for that

[21:04:07]

directhex:

i've started looking at the OGL painter, trying to see how & why the fade works

[21:04:27]

gbee:

hadees: occassionally, when working in that area and there is some benefit to it – but there aren't enough developers for some to spend their time soley reviewing code for no purpose

[21:06:12]

Anduin:

When I only had the power to have patches rejected I would occasionally submit cleanup only patches, now that I could do something about it I have no time to just clean things up.

[21:06:34]

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[21:07:26]

directhex:

Anduin, feel free to accept my last patch then! it even makes the config screens bigger, which is always fun for the whole family

[21:07:47]

directhex:

or at any rate, please delete the completely misguided and incompatible second patch added to my ticket :(

[21:07:58]

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[21:07:58]

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[21:08:07]

Anduin:

I can do the latter with a ticket number

[21:08:42]

directhex:

#3446

[21:09:29]

directhex:

i mean, the guy whote a patch, which is great, but why add it to my ticket, when it has a completely different purpose and can't work alongside mine in its current state?

[21:09:40]

** directhex grumbles "bah" **

[21:10:14]

gbee:

many times I've come across apparently unused or redundant functions but never got around to removing them because I'm not sure if they are old and unwanted, or part of some newer incomplete functionality

[21:10:56]

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[21:11:24]

juski:

directhex: jus for me, make the fade _optional_ :) I could just put a return in to skip it

[21:11:47]

Anduin:

juski: Just use the Qt painter

[21:12:07]

directhex:

juski, at the moment i'm still trying to determine why it happens in OGL but not Qt

[21:12:10]

juski:

Anduin: but when gl has other nice things, what then? ;)

[21:12:34]

juski:

Anduin: plus, opengl actually looks nicer

[21:12:39]

gbee:

and even more frequently I've come across code which makes little sense, but I've had to leave it alone because I don't know if it's some uncommented hack for a specific case or just as useless as it appears to be

[21:12:43]

Anduin:

juski: Oh yeah, like that is ever going to happen :)

[21:12:59]

directhex:

juski, i'd want fading to be a theme option. maybe some themes like it

[21:13:19]

juski:

directhex: either way, the key word being _option_ :)

[21:13:25]

juski:

like OSD menu _options_

[21:13:43]

Anduin:

gbee: exactly, at least everyone can be blamed

[21:14:11]

directhex:

juski, op... shun? wasn't i being told off for trying to make the exit menu configurable?

[21:14:53]

juski:

directhex: my comment was generally aimed at YASU... yet another setup option. those things really need to be rationalised IMHO

[21:15:22]

directhex:

juski, the gnome approach! sensible defaults, a maximum of three settings, and do the rest by hand in the sql!

[21:15:32]

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[21:15:55]

juski:

the SoC idea was good I reckon. have different 'experience' levels

[21:16:07]

directhex:

like xine?

[21:16:13]

hadees:

i just like having levels of use. That way people can have simple settings if they want but the rest of us can have the level of control we want also

[21:16:17]

juski:

yeah but without being a fscking nightmare

[21:16:18]

Anduin:

directhex: MythScreenStack::DoNewFadeTansition...?

[21:16:43]

jams:

directhex- with the ability to switch on the fly (unlike xine)

[21:17:22]

juski:

so xine has maybe 8 menu panels.. but HOW many options?!?!?!?! arghhH!

[21:17:40]

directhex:

Anduin, that's where. still working on why

[21:17:59]

directhex:

ah! mythscreenstack.cpp: m_DoTransitions = (GetMythPainter()->SupportsAlpha() &&

[21:18:06]

jams:

heh a few times I tried to navigate xine without a mouse. That ended up in total frustration

[21:18:10]

directhex:

those fades are pretty hard coded, ain't they!

[21:18:22]

jams:

directhex- yes they are

[21:18:54]

juski:

directhex: if (GetSetting()->enablefades) { ????

[21:18:55]

directhex:

hm. job 1 is to abstract the fades out, then. piece by piece

[21:21:09]

directhex:

juski, could i make it a setting, and make the config screens even chunkier? yes. i'm not happy with doing so because a) it's a short term fix b) i think it would cause serious performance issues to do a mysql lookup every time a menu's about to be drawn

[21:21:32]

juski:

directhex: checking one setting?

[21:21:43]

jams:

which is why the values are cached

[21:22:00]

juski:

alternatively hard code it into a theme's base.xml

[21:22:09]

Anduin:

one of the other things you get in that easy settings interface

[21:22:17]

directhex:

jams, it's still another config setting for a short-term fix

[21:22:25]

directhex:

juski, ah, now you're talking

[21:22:48]

juski:

directhex: just like I can live with commenting lines out of an OSDmenu.xml file to lose OSD menu options :)

[21:22:50]

directhex:

ooh, interesting. a SupportsAnimation()

[21:23:02]

juski:

directhex: don't wet yer pants

[21:23:29]

gbee:

directhex: not really following this conversation, but settings are cached so they are only looked up once per session

[21:23:48]

juski:

nothing has actually been coded to do any animation as such yet.. or movement but the basics are there IIRC

[21:24:05]

gbee:

oh, shows why I *should* follow a conversation before jumping in, jams already said that

[21:24:12]

jams:

gbee- yeah, thats just what i said ;)

[21:24:39]

** gbee goes back to fiddling with firefox and alsa **

[21:24:43]

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[21:24:51]

Anduin:

directhex: I'm going to let whoever actually looks at 3466 merge them properly (unless you want to add it to your patch)

[21:25:17]

juski:

directhex: or.. (!) make the speed adjustable

[21:25:20]

directhex:

Anduin, i'm struggling to think of a use case where a reset setting makes sense

[21:25:37]

directhex:

nano MythLogBot

[21:25:40]

directhex:

whoops, wrong window

[21:26:11]

quicksilver:

Hmph. Where are the MHEG keys documented? I don't see them in keys.txt?

[21:26:14]

hadees:

now we all know you use nano

[21:26:21]

directhex:

quicksilver, yes they are!

[21:26:30]

juski:

quicksilver: F2, F3, F4, F5

[21:26:30]

quicksilver:

directhex: hmm I must be blind

[21:26:39]

directhex:

When MHEG ITV is enabled:

[21:26:41]

juski:

and 'T'

[21:26:44]

gbee:

F6 and F7 too

[21:26:53]

directhex:

- F12 EPG key, enters EPG mode (New Zealand only).

[21:27:14]

directhex:

hadees, i get to be the one who shouts "nano!" during vi-versus-emacs fights

[21:27:39]

** juski swears *by* nano and *at* vi **

[21:27:40]

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[21:27:44]

quicksilver:

directhex: nothing in my keys.txt like that

[21:27:46]

quicksilver:

juski: thanks

[21:28:01]

Anduin:

directhex: You've just updated your kernel and built your new ivtv diver, suddenly you only remember how to operate a remote and have a strong desire to reboot with it. It will make the chooser extra icky though.

[21:28:26]

gbee:

quicksilver: keys.txt needs updating, but it's really been replaced by mythcontrols and/or mythweb

[21:28:38]

directhex:

Anduin, yes, it will. exponentially so

[21:29:34]

gbee:

if you've access then "shutdown -r now" really isn't so hard, nor is pressing the 'reset' button

[21:29:49]

Anduin:

directhex: You could use one of those scrolly checkbox widgets, yeah then we could add all sorts of exit options.

[21:31:20]

quicksilver:

gbee: ah, gotcha

[21:31:31]

directhex:

Anduin, the advantage to how it is now is it's easy to make it behave in the current default manner. add an extra setting, then what is the default current manner? how to manage that in the settings screen if you've got checkboxes?

[21:31:39]

directhex:

Anduin, it's conceptually trickier

[21:32:21]

directhex:

juski, mythscreenstack.cpp, line 13. that's where the fade speed is set

[21:32:47]

** juski sets it to 0 **

[21:33:01]

directhex:

bad plan, then it'll never finish fading

[21:33:11]

gbee:

rofl

[21:33:15]

juski:

I know that.. pfft

[21:33:20]

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[21:33:29]

juski:

one million then!

[21:33:30]

directhex:

try 255, as i understand this

[21:33:45]

juski:

then it'll fade before I change screens

[21:34:29]

juski:

that doesn't look like a delay, just how much alpha gets adjusted by

[21:35:01]

directhex:

yep

[21:35:04]

juski:

wait a minute.. you're not seriously suggesting there's no delay in there

[21:35:11]

juski:

it can't be that slow

[21:35:27]

directhex:

ckip to line 182 and see!

[21:35:56]

juski:

ffs!

[21:36:08]

Anduin:

directhex: I wasn't being entirely serious

[21:36:27]

juski:

so it's taking what.. 200ms to go from 0 to 255 in steps of 10.. ?

[21:36:42]

juski:

ouch! we can forget about nifty ui animation then!

[21:36:45]

directhex:

Anduin, well i'd like to see my patch in, partly because it's a while since i've had code in trunk :p

[21:37:20]

Anduin:

directhex: You could have submitted a patch with that ogm problem and it would be in soonish!

[21:38:08]

directhex:

Anduin, yeah, but that one's harder!

[21:38:23]

** directhex is waiting to see if he has a 1-line patch added to alsa, and subsequently into the kernel **

[21:38:26]

Anduin:

Only hard to actually fix, easy to ignore.

[21:41:52]

gbee:

juski: why does that prevent animation – by your figures it would be capable of 125fps which doesn't seem at all sloppy for smooth animations?

[21:42:18]

juski:

well, if indeed it IS 200ms

[21:42:45]

juski:

and maybe you're right, I mean it's not as if there are gonna be many elements moving around

[21:42:59]

gbee:

shouldn't be hard to time it for a precise figure

[21:43:04]

juski:

I just expected all the drawing to be much faster

[21:43:42]

juski:

anyway on that bombshell.. I'm off to bed. g'night all

[21:44:35]

gbee:

I'd have expected it to be faster, but I don't think it's a limiting factor, just a curiosity

[21:44:35]

sphery:

gbee: j-rod is going down the MythWeb Flash road. Perhaps you'll get someone to help you with sound configuration. :)

[21:45:01]

cal:

hmm so can i actually *do* anything with the power button on my remote or is that a bad thing for mythtv

[21:45:03]

j-rod:

-ENOWORK

[21:45:12]

gbee:

sphery: thanks for the heads up

[21:45:16]

sphery:

What's not working j-rod ?

[21:45:29]

sphery:

The whole streaming thing or sound?

[21:45:48]

j-rod:

sphery: the whole streaming thing — not sure I'm DTRT just yet w/my setup...

[21:46:16]

sphery:

You have SSL enabled on the machine?

[21:46:34]

j-rod:

install and readme don't suggest there's anything else I need to install, but the wiki has a bunch of other info that may or may not be relevant...

[21:46:36]

sphery:

If so, go to settings, then Streaming, then select "Force http <something or another>

[21:46:42]

j-rod:

been there, done that

[21:47:10]

j-rod:

or rather, *tried* to do that

[21:47:32]

j-rod:

I hit the check box, then the save button, but it doesn't appear to be saving it

[21:48:00]

sphery:

That sounds like an issue with cookies. The session isn't being saved.

[21:48:19]

j-rod:

hrm.

[21:48:25]

hads:

You guys talking about the new flv streaming?

[21:48:44]

j-rod:

*nod*

[21:48:58]

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[21:48:58]

hads:

It just worked for me after I recomplied ffmpeg

[21:49:00]

sphery:

Also, for it to work, you need ffmpeg installed (and, it looks like it--or a link to it--must be at /usr/bin/ffmpeg )

[21:49:29]

sphery:

Until someone writes backend support for the transcoding.

[21:49:34]

hads:

(I use Ubuntu, on which ffmpeg has no mp3 support)

[21:49:55]

sphery:

(Or, you could modify ./modules/stream/handler.pl +146)

[21:51:30]

j-rod:

apparently, I forgot to install ffmpeg when I laid down a new OS last weekend...

[21:52:13]

sphery:

That will be an important part of it. :)

[21:52:37]

j-rod:

so my primary concern... can this be transcoded on-the-fly/on-demand?

[21:52:57]

hads:

Yeah

[21:53:25]

sphery:

a.k.a. because it's transcoded on-the-fly/on-demand, there's no fast forwarding...

[21:53:33]

sphery:

Or jumping

[21:53:44]

sphery:

But definitely a nice start.

[21:54:45]

sphery:

I think the eventual plan is for Captain_Murdoch to finish support for multiple video files per recording and then the transcoded copies can be stored for you without losing the original.

[21:54:50]

sphery:

Cool.

[21:55:13]

sphery:

Has anyone figured out how to make the full-screen button work in it?

[21:55:20]

hads:

Not here

[21:56:05]

sphery:

Yeah. I've never seen a website where it worked--including youtube and all the networks that allow you to watch Flash video of TV shows.

[21:56:16]

hads:

Yup

[21:56:26]

sphery:

Perhaps it's the FlashPlayer plugin. Glad to know it's not just me, though.

[21:56:39]

j-rod:

okay, ffmpeg in place...

[21:57:11]

j-rod:

do I want the 'ASX Stream' button next to a recording?

[21:57:11]

** sphery wishes he could find an artist who wants to fix the rectangles in captions when music plays... **

[21:57:30]

sphery:

I clicked the recording details link (the thumbnails or title)

[21:57:36]

sphery:

Then you should see the player.

[21:58:52]

j-rod:

I've got a sizeable preview image that has 'asx stream' and 'direct download' under it in there

[21:59:26]

hads:

Hmm, isn't that the old behaviour?

[21:59:45]

hads:

The flash player should be in place of the preview image.

[22:01:14]

sphery:

Right.

[22:01:34]

sphery:

There aren't any Play/Pause buttons under that preview, are there?

[22:02:59]

j-rod:

nada

[22:03:08]

sphery:

You'd get the preview with the words, "Web-based video playback requires the Adobe Flash Player," if you're missing the FlashPlayer plugin.

[22:03:25]

j-rod:

I've got a working flash 9 install on this box

[22:03:44]

j-rod:

(x86_64 ff2, adobe flash 9 i386 w/nspluginwrapper)

[22:04:27]

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[22:04:31]

j-rod:

I just grabbed axel's latest svn trunk builds, maybe there's something awry there

[22:05:17]

sphery:

Sounds like it.

[22:05:35]

gbee:

is there any way to get some verbose output from firefox? I'd like to see if it's manage to enable sound etc or failing at some point

[22:06:01]

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[22:07:12]

j-rod:

gah. seems axel hasn't updated his trunk builds in over a month. :)

[22:07:19]

j-rod:

I'll just build my own later tonight

[22:07:31]

hads:

There's yer problem :)

[22:09:27]

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[22:09:29]

xris:

j-rod: just use my specs

[22:09:59]

xris:

I should really write a script for those so it doesn't break EVERY rule of rpm building. heh

[22:10:29]

j-rod:

xris: yeah, more or less what I'll do

[22:10:39]

gbee:

ok, I'm giving up for now – ffplay has no problem with the flv files so if I actually need to stream a low bandwidth version then I can use that instead of the flash player

[22:12:40]

sphery:

Unfortunately, even though I've got it working, I can't even do the streaming. My backend can't even play back HDTV--let alone transcode it on the fly--and all my recordings are HDTV resolutions.

[22:13:16]

xris:

sphery: need to get built-in transcoding coded. :)

[22:13:38]

sphery:

Yeah and the multiple-files-per-recording stuff...

[22:13:40]

** xris ponders if he really needs a new mythbox. **

[22:13:44]

xris:

sphery: yeah

[22:14:43]

xris:

even that would be enough to set up user jobs to encode flv files

[22:15:05]

sphery:

True.

[22:15:15]

xris:

also need to get code to store resolution/etc of files during pixmap generation, so I can pull it out via mythweb/nuvexport for proper aspect ratio handline.

[22:15:17]

xris:

handling

[22:15:56]

sphery:

But, since Captain_Murdoch has the multiple-video-file support mostly done (or, at least, mostly started), I don't plan to work on that.

[22:16:11]

sphery:

The resolution/etc, I may eventually get around to if no one else does.

[22:16:50]

sphery:

I really want it because the Perl bindings' use of mplayer to identify file types kills the backend when running mythrename.pl

[22:17:45]

sphery:

(I have a local hack in place that just sets the file type to MPEG because all but 2 of my recording are MPEG, but it would be nice to have it working properly.)

[22:17:54]

xris:

I want it because it's one more thing to do before mythweb/nuvexport can be completely remote from the backend (and allows for multi-server support)

[22:18:08]

sphery:

That would be nice.

[22:18:22]

xris:

I need to figure out what's up with the dates, too.. bunch of my files aren't exporting because mythtranscode can't find the dates.

[22:18:47]

sphery:

I think that's the patch I wrote...

[22:18:50]

sphery:

One sec...

[22:19:04]

xris:

I vaguely remember seeing something like that in trac

[22:19:09]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3426#comment:4

[22:19:16]

xris:

haven't been doing much coding lately. shoulder/wrist hurt too much

[22:19:23]

sphery:

That's actually for mythrename.pl, but I'm guessing it's the same in mythtranscode.

[22:19:37]

xris:

could be

[22:19:58]

sphery:

need to use recstartts instead of starttime for creating MythTV "default" filenames (i.e. chanid_recstartts.mpg).

[22:21:00]

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[22:21:11]

sphery:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3429 fixes the bindings' formatted file names stuff.

[22:23:33]

sphery:

kormoc: I have a small question for you about the Video section of MythWeb... Are there plans to do something with the Directory Structure?

[22:24:05]

sphery:

On a box I'm helping maintain, there are 136 directories, so it's kind of unwieldy.

[22:24:10]

hadees:

is mythdvd not an official plugin? i just checked out the latest svn and i don't see a dir for the code

[22:24:15]

sphery:

It would be nice to be able to hide it (i.e. for gallery view).

[22:24:27]

sphery:

hadees: It's all been rolled into MythVideo.

[22:24:37]

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[23:06:24]

clever:

i turned the opengl on in mythfrontend and now i cant get it to work

[23:09:56]

clever:

mythfrontend -r seems to have reset the theme and probly the opengl also

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[23:13:49]

planktonboy:

hi all

[23:13:49]

Anduin:

clever: -O ThemePainter=qt

[23:14:21]

clever:

that probly would have also done it:)

[23:14:28]

clever:

-r reset all of the appearance settings

[23:14:35]

clever:

painter and theme

[23:14:45]

clever:

posibly others that i didnt change and so didnt notice

[23:15:13]

clever:

i was using the os/drive on a newer laptop which supported hardware opengl

[23:15:27]

clever:

but its back in the old pc now and half the neat stuff i turned on is blank now:P

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[23:31:19]

nero_:

Is anyone here familiar with what, if anything is being done to fix mythweather? The user list is proposing the use of mythweather-revamp. Is that ultimately going to be the fix? Or is someone working on another solution?

[23:31:42]

nero_:

(i.e.- is it worth trying to get the revamp to work? Or will there be a fix sometime soon in SVN?)

[23:34:59]

hads:

mythweather-revamp is the in progress fix for mythweather AFAIK

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[23:35:19]

nero_:

thanks hads- thats what I thought, but wasn't positive.

[23:35:19]

hads:

Although I don't use it myself so I don't really know.

[23:35:43]

nero_:

my wife had gotten pretty reliant on checking the weather each morning, and is nagging me to get it working again ;)

[23:36:09]

nero_:

and "well, just go on the computer and go to weather.com" didn't get a very good reception ;)

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jams:

oh..when did you get fios?

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