Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, April 20th, 2007, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:23]

nero:

argh.. why did they have to release Feisty today??

[00:00:23]

Kazan:

and there should be severe punishment for that.. not congressional collusion

[00:00:24]

Kazan:

capitalism only works when everyone plays by the rules

[00:00:29]

nero:

trying to grab some packages so I can compile.. and all of the ubuntu servers are slow as can be.

[00:00:32]

sokminer:

hi all...... here to listen and learn

[00:00:32]

czth_:

yeh, that's how they got huge :P

[00:00:32]

czth_:

look at Google. the "don't be evil" bit is beginning to ring hollower as time goes by

[00:00:50]

czth_:

Kazan: which rules are we talking about?

[00:00:58]

nero:

sokminer, ok, corporations are evil. MythTV rocks.. ;)

[00:01:00]

Kazan:

czth_: basic rules of capitalistic ethics

[00:01:16]

sokminer:

nero: agree

[00:01:20]

czth_:

capitalism has ethics?

[00:01:21]

sokminer:

:)

[00:01:32]

Kazan:

czth_: capitalism only works over a long period of time when the exchange is gainful for both parties, which requires roughyl equal distribution of power

[00:01:35]

nero:

and configuring MythTV to use firewire in, is a SOB.

[00:01:42]

Kazan:

capitalism requires ethics to function

[00:02:03]

Kazan:

you'll find ethics-less systems that are similiar to capitalism, they appear to be capitalism superficially, but they're not

[00:02:11]

czth_:

Kazan: OK, so that implies that monopolies are bad (because then you can't go somewhere else) – but there are laws specifically for those cases

[00:02:19]

sokminer:

nero: can;t help you there... don;t have 1394 on my Comcrap box

[00:02:19]

Kazan:

they're command economies, just non-governmental entities in control

[00:02:37]

Kazan:

trusts/cartels are bad too

[00:02:42]

Kazan:

(hence why it's called "antitrust"

[00:02:53]

MaverickTech:

has anybody played with USB tv tuners ?

[00:02:55]

Kazan:

and the cable industry is a horrendous cartel

[00:03:03]

Kazan:

and they operate with government collusion which makes it worse

[00:03:07]

czth_:

so is using unregulated labor (e.g. Chinese sweatshops, Mexican illegals)

[00:03:17]

MaverickTech:

my parents are off tripping around, and have a laptop they want to pickup TV on, as they go

[00:03:23]

Kazan:

which is why in this country we have labor laws

[00:03:25]

czth_:

lack of regulation means you pay less than those that play by the rules...

[00:03:43]

czth_:

Kazan: and why businesses pay for them to not be enforced!

[00:03:48]

Kazan:

and we should be enacting trade policies that enforce those abroad (ie only trade with countries that do certain things)

[00:03:55]

jduggan_ (jduggan_!i=jduggan@shell.noffle.net) has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

[00:03:59]

czth_:

ok, i can agree w/ that

[00:04:06]

czth_:

heck, i agree with protectionism

[00:04:15]

sokminer:

Kazan: nahhh it's all politics and especially at the local level..... verizon won;t do FIOS TV installs in Mass anymore... too much BS

[00:04:15]

Kazan:

protectionism can be a two edged sword

[00:04:32]

Kazan:

sokminer: because *Gasp* mass expects consumer rights to be respected?

[00:05:20]

sokminer:

Kazan: no the local politicos are holding out for too much (free for elected officials etc etc)

[00:05:28]

czth_:

economists say protectionism = bad. that's massively oversimplified, and that efficiency is reduced, but i don't care if it benefts _my_ national economy

[00:05:33]

Kazan:

what are they holding out for sokminer

[00:05:49]

Kazan:

czth_: protectionism can harm your national economy as often as it can help

[00:05:50]

sokminer:

Kazan: we won;t talk about custiner service fro VZ or Comcast

[00:06:00]

sokminer:

customer

[00:06:19]

Kazan:

they're holding out for customer support?

[00:06:51]

sokminer:

Kazan: ahhhh free service for elected officials... bury cable (unknown in MA)... ahhh groom my dog for a year

[00:07:03]

sokminer:

Kazan: sorry got carried away

[00:07:13]

Kazan:

sokminer: free service for elected officials? that's a bit too much

[00:07:24]

Kazan:

sokminer: bury cable? that's a reasonable request

[00:07:24]

czth_:

Kazan: sure it depends on circumstances. in general, though, if product X is made locally, then imports of it should be taxed to encourage buying locally, esp. if the importing country is less regulated.

[00:07:34]

sokminer:

Kazan: heh.. ya think ?

[00:07:47]

czth_:

this doesn't mean that if i try to grow bananas in Michigan, the government should tax imports to fund my hothouse.

[00:07:53]

Kazan:

czth_: yup using protectionism to enforce stuff like that would be good

[00:08:03]

Kazan:

yeah.. it has to be viable to do locally

[00:08:07]

czth_:

nero: Verizon is teh devil kthx.

[00:08:17]

czth_:

they overcharge for everything.

[00:08:17]

nero:

czth, why?

[00:08:35]

nero:

shrug.. my FiOS is cheaper than before FiOS

[00:08:41]

Kazan:

which of the data service companies DON'T overcharge?

[00:08:42]

czth_:

i had verizon in MA and it cost me buckets to be able to run a server over DSL

[00:08:55]

Kazan:

don't ask for permission? :P

[00:08:58]

czth_:

although once i shelled out it worked decently, but that's hard to get wrong

[00:09:08]

nero:

If I went with our local cable Co, I'd be paying about $75 more per month for the same thing.

[00:09:11]

czth_:

Kazan: they're blocking ports now

[00:09:16]

czth_:

(for consumer accounts)

[00:09:17]

Kazan:

assholes

[00:09:22]

Kazan:

excuse my language

[00:09:26]

czth_:

they didn't used to do that in the good old days :(

[00:09:37]

nero:

czth, almost every cable/dsl company is doing that now.

[00:09:47]

czth_:

speaking of, i hope Vonage survives, it's < 1/2 the price of regular POTS

[00:09:48]

Kazan:

we really need to enact public funding of elections

[00:10:02]

Kazan:

so the big donors can stop disenfranchizing the average citizen by purchasing their reps

[00:10:12]

czth_:

nero: i know. doesn't mean it doesn't suck. charge me for bandwidth, not for what traffic i choose to transmit.

[00:10:33]

czth_:

it's all just packets

[00:10:36]

nero:

czth, but dont pin it all on VZ is what I'm saying.. it is an industry wide problem.

[00:10:49]

czth_:

nero: sure. but VZ was still painful to deal with.

[00:11:09]

Kazan:

we should do it how britain does it

[00:11:16]

Kazan:

like in london – government owns the data lines

[00:11:21]

Kazan:

contractors sell service over them

[00:11:40]

Kazan:

for good DSL+phone it's like $20/month

[00:11:48]

Kazan:

and then can you say DVB :D

[00:11:57]

sokminer:

so... vonage has no "workaround' for the VZ patent lawsuit ... vonage is aout of business

[00:12:23]

czth_:

sokminer: apparently there is prior art, but they don't have the funds to do the court thing

[00:12:26]

sokminer:

do ya think comcast might be next ...supress VOIP ?

[00:12:28]

nero:

Kazan, that would work GREAT in the US. Put the Gub in charge, and you'd have cheap DSL, but at less than 56k speeds.

[00:13:11]

Kazan:

nero: wrong

[00:13:16]

czth_:

i've dealt with Bell Canada, BellSouth, Verizon x2, Speakeasy, and Millennium – Verizon's the worst

[00:13:16]

sokminer:

Kazan: usingthat prior art argument

[00:13:31]

czth_:

speakeasy's the best. unfortunately they don't cover where i live now.

[00:13:51]

czth_:

clueful and cheap. (i wonder how the best buy purchase affected them)

[00:13:54]

Kazan:

nero: government _CAN_ do things efficiently when it's ass i held to the flame

[00:14:06]

czth_:

who's gonna hold it there? you? :P

[00:14:30]

Kazan:

the taxpayers should be... but to do that it would require the news agencies to actually report the news

[00:14:38]

czth_:

i'd love to hold the gov't to the flame over so many things (border security comes to mind, and pork barrel politics)

[00:14:48]

Kazan:

instead of who has been fucking a dead woman

[00:15:12]

Kazan:

i often think our democratic republic has passed the point of recoverability

[00:15:12]

sokminer:

Kazan: wrong !!!! it means that YOU have to go to the meetings and voice your opinion

[00:15:25]

czth_:

"Yes, we need to fund education. Rider: we need to buy 10000 widgets from a company in Buttf*ck, Idaho."

[00:15:29]

Kazan:

sokminer: and you can only voice that opinion effective if it's informed

[00:15:33]

Kazan:

czth_: yeah

[00:15:39]

sokminer:

Kazan: agree

[00:15:46]

Kazan:

biggest wasteful spender in government: the defense department

[00:15:49]

czth_:

some sort of microvoting would be nice

[00:16:03]

czth_:

but would it lead to tyranny of the majority (and would that matter)?

[00:16:07]

Kazan:

the porkbarreling inside the defense department dwarves the blatant

[00:16:08]

sokminer:

Kazan: you're prolly prolly more qualified in IT than most of the others that show up anywhere

[00:16:21]

sokminer:

me being the exception of course :)

[00:16:35]

Kazan:

czth_: the constitution is meant to prevent the tyranny of the majority.. but we see how well it's listened to in reguards to religious rights and free speech

[00:16:58]

czth_:

who's oppressed your religion and free speech lately?

[00:17:11]

Kazan:

who hasn't

[00:17:29]

sokminer:

Kazan: agree w/ your comment czth_ but not by remote control.....

[00:17:32]

** Kazan is an atheist.. every time i use a fucking dollar bill i get reminded that this country cannot respect it's own bloody constitution **

[00:18:20]

czth_:

"remote control"?

[00:18:23]

Kazan:

how about the christofascists trying to pass bigoted legislation against gays, another example (i'm straight and married)

[00:18:27]

czth_:

as in not with a set-top box?

[00:18:41]

Kazan:

anyway.. i have some reading i need to do

[00:18:46]

czth_:

christofascist here :P

[00:19:05]

opello:

mythtv user here :p

[00:19:09]

Kazan:

czth_: oh... how do you claim to be one?

[00:19:10]

czth_:

amen to that

[00:19:16]

Kazan:

opello: ditto

[00:19:30]

Kazan:

czth_: you support the Bigot Bills?

[00:19:38]

czth_:

Christian, in favor of defense of marriage amendment

[00:19:45]

** Kazan rolleyes **

[00:19:45]

sokminer:

as in not w/ encrypted QFM

[00:19:51]

Kazan:

defense of marriage

[00:19:55]

Kazan:

you're disrespecting marriage

[00:20:14]

Kazan:

and you're howing the arrogance to claim that you can tell other people who they can and cannot marry

[00:20:29]

Kazan:

you're pushing your religion onto others, and you very well know it

[00:20:35]

** sokminer reme,bers when there was a tax advantage for living together **

[00:20:43]

Kazan:

that isn't what america is about

[00:20:48]

Kazan:

it's the opposite of what america is about

[00:20:54]

Kazan:

american has never, and will never, be a christian nation

[00:20:58]

nero:

so, how about mythtv

[00:20:58]

Kazan:

it's a nation, with a bunch of christians

[00:21:05]

** cesman thought he was in the #mythtv-users channel **

[00:21:05]

Kazan:

nero: needs bug 3031 fixed

[00:21:18]

** Kazan gets off his stepbox and HEADSHOTs czth **

[00:21:23]

Kazan:

s/step/soap

[00:21:47]

sokminer:

cesman: apparently it's been usurped for the time being ... not that i mind :)

[00:22:08]

Kazan:

if someone asked a myth question the off topic would pause

[00:23:13]

czth_:

sorry, i went and got popcorn

[00:23:22]

czth_:

got the last of it, too... lucky me

[00:24:23]

** Kazan would love to hear your defense of your behavior in participating in the tyranny of the majority and supporting bigoted laws **

[00:25:21]

sn9:

now, now, discrimination against bigots is no better than discrimination against anybody else

[00:25:26]

czth_:

um. majority = good, yay?

[00:25:45]

Kazan:

sn9: no it's not

[00:25:57]

Kazan:

sn9: condemnation of bigots is the responsibility of any person in a free society

[00:26:17]

Kazan:

sn9: now i'm not going to pass laws that say they cannot be as bigot of bloody bigots they want in their personal life

[00:26:36]

sn9:

ah, ok

[00:26:38]

Kazan:

sn9: but they cannot be allowed to make their bigotry into laws

[00:26:38]

cesman:

Kazan: where do you live?

[00:26:41]

Kazan:

cesman: iowa

[00:26:44]

czth_:

go nuts with civil unions, though

[00:26:56]

cesman:

ok...just wondering

[00:26:59]

Kazan:

czth_: seperate but equal is unconstitutional

[00:27:06]

Kazan:

czth_: can you justify your behavior? nope

[00:27:27]

GreyFoxx:

ok, how about we take this particular topic to either private channel or private messages

[00:27:31]

czth_:

separate and unequal, how about that?

[00:27:33]

Kazan:

czth_: nobody is trying to make your bigot church marry people they don't want, but as long as the government is involved in marriage it must respect the rights of all it's citizens

[00:27:39]

** cesman is surprised everyone from Iowa isn't a bible tumper ;) **

[00:27:45]

Kazan:

czth_: seperate but equal = seperate but unequal

[00:27:46]

sn9:

i would support the abolition of any legal recognition of marriage at all — it's none of the state's beeswax

[00:27:54]

Kazan:

sn9: i agree

[00:27:55]

GreyFoxx:

we all have our feelings and none is gonna change anyone elses mind here no matter what the argument

[00:27:55]

czth_:

sn9: i could get behind that

[00:28:17]

Kazan:

you have your "marriage" in your bloody brainless hall, and you have your civil union with the government

[00:28:31]

Kazan:

everyone can have civil unions between two consenting adults not immediately relted

[00:28:46]

sn9:

no civil unions, either — nothing state-recognized

[00:28:56]

Kazan:

sn9: need something for tax purposes

[00:28:58]

purserj:

go polygamy!

[00:28:59]

** sokminer thinks about becoming a tax acountant...the clientel just doubled **

[00:29:00]

czth_:

why not? why can't a guy marry his sister? (as long as they don't produce offspring)

[00:29:06]

Kazan:

sn9: plus power of attourny, etc

[00:29:06]

fryfrog:

POLYGAMY WOOT!

[00:29:09]

czth_:

as long as they're consenting adults...

[00:29:12]

sn9:

Kazan: bull

[00:29:13]

Kazan:

nothing wrong with polygamy IMHO

[00:29:16]

Kazan:

sn9: not bull

[00:29:37]

Kazan:

sn9: my wife was hopsitalized for a medicinally induced relapse on her depression behaviors

[00:29:39]

Kazan:

last month

[00:29:41]

sn9:

the "marriage penalty" in the tax code is alive and well

[00:29:49]

Kazan:

first year i've filing married

[00:29:51]

Kazan:

i got a 2k refund

[00:30:05]

fryfrog:

actually, there is no tax break for being married any more

[00:30:10]

Kazan:

a flaw in implementation, if that flaw exists (i've never seen evidence of it), doesn't mean a flaw in theory

[00:30:10]

fryfrog:

they did away with that a year or two before I got married

[00:30:11]

czth_:

this was the first year i itemized, i also got a decent refund

[00:30:12]

purserj:

czth_: so let me get this straight, your against gay marriage but have no problem with childless incest?

[00:30:17]

Kazan:

if it happened 6 months earlier i wouldn't have been able to visit her in the hospital

[00:30:34]

czth_:

purserj: no. i'm just asking why incest is wrong.

[00:30:38]

Kazan:

purserj: i think he's just trying to challenge me to make a secular argument

[00:30:38]

fryfrog:

BUT marriage of course has way more benefits than tax break

[00:30:43]

GreyFoxx:

Ok, do I have to use the daddy voice or something? Lets get back on topic here. Take this conversation elsewhere

[00:30:47]

fryfrog:

health insurance

[00:30:55]

fryfrog:

who cares, no one is talking myth?

[00:31:01]

Kazan:

GreyFoxx: exactly

[00:31:04]

Kazan:

nobody is talking myth

[00:31:05]

GreyFoxx:

Apparently, I do

[00:31:07]

czth_:

indeed. it's not like we're shouting over the myth questions.

[00:31:11]

Kazan:

if someone asked a myth question we'd stop and answer it

[00:31:21]

Kazan:

and then resume

[00:31:21]

purserj:

okay guys why don't you do an online debate, record it and let us watch it on our myth installs

[00:31:24]

GreyFoxx:

So then go start #mythtv-users-and-politics

[00:31:30]

Kazan:

lol purserj

[00:31:34]

** Kazan rolleyes **

[00:31:47]

Kazan:

peolpe who cannot handle the topic being OT while nobody is talking on topic as such squares

[00:31:57]

Kazan:

s/as/are

[00:32:16]

Kazan:

sn9: are you married btw?

[00:32:20]

GreyFoxx:

yeah, your opinion of me is of vital interest to me :)

[00:32:32]

sn9:

GreyFoxx: the current state of affairs with regards to mythtv is inseparable from politics

[00:32:34]

Kazan:

GreyFoxx: you can be our guest and go away? :P

[00:32:37]

Kazan:

sn9: true!

[00:32:48]

Kazan:

which is what actually got us on the topic

[00:32:59]

purserj:

How does Mythtv reflect on Gay marriage?

[00:33:00]

Kazan:

grumbling about the political situation in regards to data providers

[00:33:09]

purserj:

I must have missed the rider on the DMCA

[00:33:12]

Kazan:

purserj: ever seen the show Connections

[00:33:27]

GreyFoxx:

sn9: Yeah, I forgot how myth is entwined in christianity and homosexuallity

[00:33:29]

Kazan:

purserj: mythtv->politics related to mythtv->politics

[00:33:51]

sn9:

Kazan: so far, i have never been married, and if state recognition of marriage remains the way it is today, i likely never will be (i'm straight, btw)

[00:34:17]

Kazan:

sn9: as far as i can tell the so called "marriage penalty" in taxes is a myth

[00:34:26]

Cardoe (Cardoe!n=Cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe) has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

[00:34:26]

** sokminer appreciates a well reasoned debate...... **

[00:34:41]

Kazan:

especially if you write up your W2s at the beginning of the year correctly in anticipation

[00:35:23]

Kazan:

erg W4s

[00:35:27]

sokminer:

Kazan: about 5 (maybe longer) years ago the tax laws changed so that there is n marriage penalty...it was a truth back in the day

[00:35:29]

Kazan:

whichever form you fill out at the beginning of the year :D

[00:35:38]

sokminer:

no*

[00:35:42]

Kazan:

sn9: do you have a SO?

[00:35:47]

czth_:

Kazan: it's not a myth – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty

[00:36:14]

sn9:

i've known couples who refrained from getting marriage licenses because they couldn't afford what would happen if they did — doesn't matter if the penalty is now outside of the tax code per se

[00:36:15]

czth_:

basically some couples pay more than 2x the tax of a single person making half the income

[00:36:29]

Kazan:

that doesn't make sense from what i saw while filing out my taxes

[00:36:35]

czth_:

although one can file married filing singly i suppose – would that cancel it?

[00:36:42]

Kazan:

WOOT GOAL!!! 30+ years

[00:37:18]

sn9:

Kazan: no SO atm, but i don't consider that to be a permanent situation

[00:37:21]

sokminer:

again this is now history.... the marriage penality is gone

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sn9:

sokminer: only as far as the tax code goes — reality is much wider

[00:38:24]

Kazan:

from what i read in the wikipedia article it seems that it all comes down to how you file

[00:39:11]

Kazan:

and it's also highly dependant on exactly what your income is

[00:39:18]

Kazan:

it's just "quirks" in the mathematics

[00:39:23]

Kazan:

you may end up paying more, you may end up paying less

[00:39:25]

sokminer:

sn9: ahhh but at least choice arrives wrt taxes.... married or live together same taxes paid ...more or less

[00:40:03]

sokminer:

taxes are now a minimal factor

[00:40:23]

sn9:

sokminer: depending on the income of each person, it may or may not be

[00:40:27]

Kazan:

sn9: did you catch my story about my wife's hospitalization

[00:40:27]

czth_:

the curves of "2 x tax for single person making $X" and "tax for married couple making $X" are not identical. the area between them is the marriage penalty/benefit.

[00:40:54]

czth_:

er, 2 x ... single person making $X/2

[00:41:11]

sn9:

Kazan: there are examples of one way being more advantageous, and there are examples of the other

[00:41:30]

Kazan:

sn9: you talking 'bout taxes or the story?

[00:41:38]

sokminer:

sn9: possibly.... however consult yoursoon to trained tax accountant for proper strategy ... that's be me ... fees are negotiable :)

[00:41:53]

Kazan:

sokminer: lol.. getting your CPA cert?

[00:42:20]

Kazan:

you know what's REALLY REALLY REALLY stupid

[00:42:34]

sn9:

sokminer: my point exactly

[00:42:34]

sn9:

Kazan: sorry, i thought you were tying the two together

[00:43:03]

Kazan:

if someone gets hospitalized involuntarily for mental issues – they don't even tell them spouse anything about the details of the case

[00:43:07]

Kazan:

HIPPA prevents it

[00:43:20]

sokminer:

Kazan: nahhh ... just being an idiot and making you think differently... I am a US Gov't employee and could become a tax man ...not that i really want to :)

[00:43:43]

Kazan:

sn9: the story about my wife being that if we weren't married i wouldn't have even been able to visit her in the hospital, at all

[00:43:50]

czth_:

HIPAA

[00:43:57]

sn9:

another can of worms — involuntary hospitalization (lanterman-petris-short act in CA)

[00:44:08]

czth_:

used to work for a medical co. :)

[00:44:09]

sokminer:

Kazan: that "you" is intended as a collective you ...meaning everyone here

[00:44:26]

sokminer:

Kazan: iow no offense

[00:44:33]

Kazan:

czth_: yup... the court couldn't tell me anything... wouldn't even let me into the court room

[00:44:44]

Kazan:

sn9: chapter 229 of the iowa code

[00:45:08]

czth_:

how can they hospitalize someone involuntarily, unless perhaps they're violent?

[00:45:21]

Kazan:

i question the constitutionality of involuntary hospitalization

[00:45:31]

Kazan:

czth_: if i a doctor tells the judge they think the person is a danger to themself

[00:45:36]

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[00:45:46]

Kazan:

my wife had a relapse on her depression behaviors due to medicine change – and she's a cutter

[00:45:54]

sn9:

i'm of the opinion that involuntary hospitalization needs to be 100% disallowed in absolutely all cases

[00:45:55]

czth_:

hrm. i thought they were usu pretty good about letting the spouse have access. bastids.

[00:45:58]

Kazan:

when she got hospitalized she was already recovering because she was back on the right meds

[00:46:15]

Kazan:

yeah.. i could see her in the hospital – but i couldn't be in the court room when they had her hearing

[00:46:18]

czth_:

sn9: crank that down to about 90% so you can still put away the psychos :P

[00:46:18]

Kazan:

i couldn't see a copy of the complaint

[00:46:21]

Kazan:

i couldn't talk to her lawyer

[00:46:25]

Kazan:

i couldn't do anything

[00:46:31]

sn9:

czth: there is no such thing

[00:46:39]

fryfrog:

Kazan: all because you weren't married yet?

[00:46:42]

Kazan:

sn9: no such thing as a psycho? ...

[00:46:45]

Kazan:

fryfrog: nope

[00:46:47]

fryfrog:

Kazan: or because you were?

[00:46:52]

Kazan:

fryfrog: because they aren't even allowed to tell spouses

[00:46:55]

fryfrog:

or just... because?

[00:46:57]

fryfrog:

oh

[00:47:03]

fryfrog:

but with spousal consent?

[00:47:10]

Kazan:

they didn't bother to check with her

[00:47:14]

czth_:

sn9: OK, the truly evil, then?

[00:47:16]

fryfrog:

or what about with *pre* consent?

[00:47:30]

fryfrog:

assuming it existed

[00:47:32]

sn9:

a "psycho" is simply someone whose behavior others don't accept

[00:47:33]

Kazan:

fryfrog: they didn't even bother to ask her

[00:47:36]

Kazan:

sn9: wrong

[00:47:46]

fryfrog:

Kazan: right, in your case i know... but like, lets say she is better now

[00:47:49]

Kazan:

sn9: there is actually a pyschological condition where one is completely incapable of differentiating right from wrong

[00:48:00]

Kazan:

fryfrog: i don't think they can do preconsent

[00:48:05]

fryfrog:

goes to her lawyer and says "please make some paper work that says i consent for my husband to know blah blah blah" and then if it happens again?

[00:48:13]

sn9:

Kazan: and people don't accept that

[00:48:26]

Kazan:

sn9: and those people aren't psych doctors

[00:48:44]

Kazan:

sn9: just because you refuse to accept the existance of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[00:49:27]

sn9:

there is no fundamental difference between right and wrong — that's why there are so many disagreements as to what's right and wrong

[00:50:00]

jellopants (jellopants!n=bryan@user-0c9hduh.cable.mindspring.com) has quit (Remote closed the connection)

[00:50:06]

Kazan:

sn9: even if they choose to ignore it

[00:50:11]

Kazan:

sn9: these people don't have that at all

[00:50:25]

sn9:

yes, and that also varies from human to human

[00:50:33]

sn9:

there is no absolute

[00:50:40]

Kazan:

there is "normal parameters"

[00:50:42]

Tanthrix:

sn9: You ought to take some moral philosophy and you should read Rachel's book "The Elements of Moral Philosophy" to find out why you are wrong about what you said

[00:50:43]

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[00:50:56]

Kazan:

and significantly outside normal parameters is, rightly, considered disordered

[00:50:56]

sn9:

Tanthrix: perhaps

[00:51:11]

purserj:

oh goody so now we're onto moral relativsm vs moral absolutism?

[00:51:26]

Tanthrix:

sn9: Here's a good piece on moral relatavism: http://www.dushkin.com/text-data/articles/19736/19736.mhtml

[00:51:29]

Kazan:

purserj: don't see anyone supporting absolutism

[00:51:37]

sn9:

Kazan: "normal parameters" implies "norms" and norms are defined by society

[00:51:37]

czth_:

there are absolutes. it's easily provable and i leave it as an exercise for the diligent student.

[00:51:39]

opello:

why can't you guys just stay on topic :p

[00:51:46]

Kazan:

purserj: reciprocity principle is the fundamental principle of pretty much all relativistic theories

[00:51:48]

Tanthrix:

sn9: And a good piece on ethical subjectivism: http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~neufeld/103/subjectivism.pdf

[00:52:00]

** Tanthrix runs off since this is going to go nowhere fast **

[00:52:05]

Kazan:

czth_: name an absolute :P

[00:52:15]

opello:

absolute zero!

[00:52:15]

Kazan:

opello: because nobody is asking on topic questions?

[00:52:20]

Kazan:

lol opello :P

[00:52:21]

sn9:

this is fun, anyway

[00:52:30]

opello:

then i'll be off topic too :p

[00:52:31]

czth_:

stealing is bad!

[00:52:34]

** sokminer notices an entrely unused channel #mythtv....."This is the MythTV development channel. For mythtv related user support, go to #mythtv-users". **

[00:52:37]

opello:

nah, just kidding, dinner time

[00:52:58]

purserj:

czth_: what if your children are starving and you have no money or other access to food?

[00:53:07]

czth_:

still bad. maybe justifiable, but still wrong.

[00:53:27]

Kazan:

czth_: not in all western societies

[00:53:37]

Kazan:

czth_: germany for example – it's called "mundraub" and it gets you off the hook

[00:53:48]

czth_:

that's a legal, not a moral principle.

[00:53:49]

Kazan:

it's not considered right, but nor is it considered wrong

[00:53:59]

GreyFoxx:

sokminer: no channel is active all the time :)

[00:54:25]

Kazan:

under normal conditions it's wrong, under those conditions it's not wrong

[00:54:31]

czth_:

so you say

[00:54:37]

sn9:

glancing over the relativism paper, it seems to agree with what i was trying to say

[00:54:39]

Kazan:

so goes the moral theory from which the law is written

[00:54:50]

Kazan:

sn9: seems to, doesn't mean it does

[00:54:53]

czth_:

i don't accept that theory

[00:54:59]

Kazan:

czth_: irrelevant

[00:55:08]

Kazan:

czth_: you tried to name a universal, i showed you that it's not

[00:55:22]

czth_:

you showed that someone can disagree. big deal.

[00:55:32]

czth_:

i still assert that it's universal.

[00:55:34]

Kazan:

proof by contradiction, QED

[00:55:44]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: my point is that thi schannel has been usurped due to the community... alternatives are available and those of us that chosse toteramin here for now can redirect the constituency for mythtv answers

[00:55:44]

purserj:

its not universal if not everyone agrees

[00:55:45]

czth_:

no. i didn't say something that nobody disagreed with.

[00:55:46]

Kazan:

and i have demonstrated that you are wrong

[00:55:54]

sn9:

the only possible universal must be a common denominator

[00:55:56]

czth_:

no, you haven't.

[00:56:13]

purserj:

now to a mythtv question, my scheduler is borked

[00:56:17]

Kazan:

simply because you refuse to listen to the proof by contradiction doesn't mean the proof by contradiction doesn't exist

[00:56:26]

Kazan:

though.. there is a STRONG argument you could make in support of your position

[00:56:30]

purserj:

No matter how I try to schedule a recording, it just won't put it in the db

[00:56:30]

czth_:

at most, you have demonstrated that there exist justifications for doing wrong.

[00:56:36]

sn9:

QUIET!!! purserj has a mythtv problem!!!

[00:56:42]

czth_:

woot! a mythtv problem!

[00:56:42]

opello:

jean valjean went to jail, maybe the french were on to something :)

[00:56:44]

Kazan:

purserj: how is it broken

[00:57:11]

czth_:

anyway. time to face teh massive traffic jam known as SR 520.

[00:57:19]

Kazan:

czth_: so, your argument is, in the absence of complicating factors, stealing is wrong?

[00:57:26]

czth_:

no. it's always wrong.

[00:57:32]

czth_:

it's sometimes justifiable.

[00:57:40]

** Kazan will agree with that assertion (i don't know any counter examples), but i will not accept the "it is always wrong" assertion **

[00:57:46]

Kazan:

absolutism is absolutely wrong :P

[00:57:49]

opello:

and just because something can be justified, doesn't make it right

[00:58:00]

GreyFoxx:

sokminer: Redirect them where? Maybe I just misunderstood your meaning :)

[00:58:02]

czth_:

compare to how Don Imus was forgiven, but still had to face the consequences.

[00:58:06]

Kazan:

purserj: have you tried restarting backend?

[00:58:13]

sn9:

czth_: the same can apply to murder, but this is getting way OT

[00:58:16]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: #mythtv

[00:58:32]

Kazan:

murder as self defense isn't considered morally wrong :P

[00:58:35]

** Kazan stirs the pot :D **

[00:58:44]

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[00:58:44]

Kazan:

infact it's not even considered murder :P

[00:58:56]

** Kazan pokes purserj **

[00:58:57]

opello:

it's killing though

[00:58:58]

GreyFoxx:

sokminer: No, the reedirection should be to the "usurpers" :)

[00:58:58]

purserj:

Kazan: as I said, no matter which way I try and enter a scheduled recording, it just doesn't appear in the schedule

[00:59:02]

czth_:

there's "wrong", "wrong but justifiable (excusable)", and "right"

[00:59:06]

Kazan:

purserj: have you tried restarting backend?

[00:59:07]

sn9:

yes, i referred to "murder" not "killing"

[00:59:12]

purserj:

Kazan: yup

[00:59:14]

Kazan:

sometimes the scheduler thread terminates abnormally...

[00:59:18]

Kazan:

oh... that normally fixes it

[00:59:18]

Kazan:

hmm

[00:59:30]

czth_:

anyway. too OT, and going home. later.

[00:59:32]

Kazan:

is your drive full beyond the configured acceptable limit with shows that are not marked expirable?

[00:59:47]

purserj:

How do I check for the acceptable limit?

[00:59:50]

Kazan:

czth_: there are a lot more shades

[01:00:06]

Kazan:

purserj: don't remember where it's configured.. there is a flag in the config table you could probably find it there

[01:00:12]

Kazan:

purserj: i think the default is a gig or two

[01:00:16]

GreyFoxx:

purserj: in mythtv-setup you set a limit on how much space must remain free on the drive

[01:00:29]

purserj:

Oh I've got more than that available

[01:00:41]

sokminer:

has had*

[01:00:52]

Kazan:

are there any scheduled recordings in upcoming?

[01:01:03]

GreyFoxx:

sokminer: Uhhh I'm not ranting and raving, in fact I've restrained myself from booting anyone entirely :)

[01:01:41]

purserj:

Kazan: nope

[01:01:43]

Kazan:

[sports]New England vs Columbus has a NASTY elbow thrown

[01:01:51]

Kazan:

purserj: have you checked to see i your encoders have failed?

[01:01:56]

Kazan:

s/i/if

[01:02:09]

GreyFoxx:

purserj: you might want to check the "record" table. See if the entry even made it into the database

[01:02:31]

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[01:02:51]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: i appreciate your patience...but, imho, tonight is unique.....let it run and exploit the alternative .... this mod ewil taper off in a few hours ...let the community blow some steam...

[01:02:59]

sokminer:

this mode*

[01:03:00]

GreyFoxx:

pffft

[01:03:23]

sn9:

hours? doesn't need to take that long

[01:03:45]

** Kazan nukes some conservative southern city **

[01:03:47]

** Kazan feels better now **

[01:03:49]

Kazan:

:P j/k

[01:03:50]

sn9:

steam is not an open wound

[01:04:04]

opello:

you must be playing globalthermonuclear war with the wopr again :p

[01:04:09]

Kazan:

yup

[01:04:25]

GreyFoxx:

Man I haven't seen that in a long time

[01:04:29]

sokminer:

Kazan: how for south in IA ...my son is in Des Moine right now:-)))))

[01:04:38]

Kazan:

sokminer: des moines is liberal :P

[01:04:49]

opello:

GreyFoxx: heh i watched it the other day, it's still awesome

[01:04:54]

Kazan:

lol opello

[01:05:10]

opello:

i hadn't seen it in a few years so ... figured it was time :)

[01:05:15]

opello:

i mean, acoustic modems!

[01:05:20]

purserj:

GreyFoxx: its not getting to the db

[01:05:25]

sokminer:

Kazan: he's visiting his girl friend.... in winterset (?)

[01:05:30]

GreyFoxx:

I have it around here somewhere. IT's one of the few I haven't ripped to DVD yet

[01:05:30]

Kazan:

ah

[01:05:37]

Kazan:

winterset... home of john wayne

[01:05:48]

sn9:

GreyFoxx: from vhs? or beta?

[01:05:51]

Kazan:

must be college aged then :P

[01:05:58]

GreyFoxx:

sn9: DVD

[01:06:07]

GreyFoxx:

I meant to say ripped to my drive

[01:06:14]

sn9:

you said "to" dvd

[01:06:16]

GreyFoxx:

I've ripped most all of my disks

[01:06:26]

GreyFoxx:

starting withmy daughters stuff :)

[01:06:37]

Kazan:

how big of a storage array do you have

[01:06:42]

sokminer:

Kazan: ahh well my older brother is a huge JW fan... now ny son and he will have moreto talk about ...thanks

[01:06:43]

** Kazan has about a half TB **

[01:06:46]

GreyFoxx:

2tb

[01:06:53]

Kazan:

sokminer: lol

[01:06:56]

Kazan:

niiiiice

[01:07:03]

Kazan:

that's a nice epeen to wave around grey :P :D

[01:07:07]

Kazan:

how much of that is porn?

[01:07:09]

Kazan:

1tb? :P

[01:07:09]

GreyFoxx:

2 1tb fileservers, Im eventually gonna combine into a single array

[01:07:10]

sn9:

sometimes, a dvd is just a more convenient medium

[01:07:24]

GreyFoxx:

video/Porn$ du -sh

[01:07:24]

GreyFoxx:

14G .

[01:07:25]

** Kazan agrees with sn9 **

[01:07:26]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: using what size drives now?

[01:07:26]

GreyFoxx:

;)

[01:07:30]

Kazan:

rotfl grey :D

[01:07:35]

fryfrog:

14G?

[01:07:36]

fryfrog:

panzy :/

[01:07:42]

opello:

dvds are more portable than the fileserver or a 700mb file

[01:07:47]

GreyFoxx:

IT's all I need :)

[01:07:55]

Kazan:

i received three more porn dvds today.. ones i bought after looking up ones my wife may like

[01:07:58]

Kazan:

she liked them

[01:07:59]

Kazan:

it was gravy :D

[01:08:03]

fryfrog:

54G porn/

[01:08:03]

fryfrog:

oh, poo :/

[01:08:06]

fryfrog:

i thought i had 100G :(

[01:08:07]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: well my estimation was poor ...seems as though the community has had their collective say ... again thanlsfor your patience :)

[01:08:11]

Kazan:

rotfl you guys need to hook me up :P

[01:08:12]

GreyFoxx:

opello: Not when you have a 4G usb key in your pocket that hold 5 movies

[01:08:21]

opello:

heh, i suppose :)

[01:08:24]

sn9:

opello: for 700, just use a cd — they're even cheaper

[01:08:24]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: thanks for *

[01:08:33]

** Kazan has a 80GB and a 160GB external USB2 harddrives **

[01:08:36]

opello:

i want a 4gb usb pen drive :/

[01:08:39]

opello:

or 8 :)

[01:08:44]

Kazan:

(old PATAs i wasn't using anymore put into enclosures :D)

[01:08:56]

fryfrog:

6x 320G raid5 now, got room for 2x more 320G

[01:09:04]

opello:

sn9: yeah, but then they need a pc on the tv, or a divx/xvid player ..

[01:09:04]

fryfrog:

should put me a smidge over 2TB :)

[01:09:22]

opello:

while most everyone has a simple dvd player

[01:09:36]

Kazan:

well.. i really need to do my reading

[01:09:37]

Kazan:

afk

[01:09:39]

sn9:

opello: i have a divx player, and what myth box doesn't connect to a tv?

[01:09:40]

Kazan is now known as Kazan|AFK

[01:09:48]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: When I move in the next couple months I'll likely go to 2 arrays of 5x500G drives in a single machine

[01:10:05]

opello:

sn9: yeah, but we were talking portability, not everyone is a mythtv user ... as convenient as it would be

[01:10:14]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: why 10x 500G in 2 arrays?

[01:10:16]

fryfrog:

why not just 1?

[01:10:21]

monkeypet:

i have like 8 drives in my system now... they keep multiplying!

[01:10:25]

sn9:

you can master am svcd, then

[01:10:31]

opello:

0+1

[01:10:32]

sn9:

*an

[01:11:17]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: I'm gonna raid 5 them, 5 drivers to an array. Also makes it easier to split 1TB to another machine if I every find/feel a need without having to rebuild anything

[01:11:18]

opello:

but, 400x400? eew

[01:11:42]

GreyFoxx:

I have some nifty drivecages that fit 5 sata drives in the space of 3 bays

[01:11:57]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: ahhh, nice

[01:12:12]

monkeypet:

any have hints on how to reduce power consumption? can we spin down the drives when not active?

[01:12:16]

fryfrog:

GreyFoxx: I just have a big case with 8 "bays" for 3.5" drives

[01:12:25]

fryfrog:

and i got metal things to stick 2 drives in the 2 spare 5.25 bays

[01:12:36]

fryfrog:

was cheaper than the drive cages, like $1 each :p

[01:12:39]

opello:

sounds like a stacker

[01:13:09]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: I'm moving the last of my servers that are in towers into rackm ount cases during the same rebuild. I've got the new house wiring and server layout all draw out :)

[01:13:58]

fryfrog:

damn, rack mount cases!

[01:14:04]

fryfrog:

you are gonna have a real data center!

[01:14:09]

fryfrog:

do you have a 19" rack?

[01:14:16]

GreyFoxx:

yes

[01:14:19]

fryfrog:

nice :)

[01:14:23]

GreyFoxx:

A fullsize dell rack

[01:14:28]

opello:

42 Us? heh

[01:14:36]

fryfrog:

some day, I'd like to turn a medium sized closet into a tiny datacenter

[01:14:42]

GreyFoxx:

opello: For some reason I thought it was 44, but it might be 42

[01:14:43]

fryfrog:

stick a wall AC unit in there some how

[01:14:49]

fryfrog:

humm, that reminds me

[01:14:55]

opello:

GreyFoxx: i could be wrong, i haven't installed a rack in a few years

[01:15:00]

fryfrog:

a friend has a dell rack that i should have gone and gotten like 3 years ago

[01:15:06]

fryfrog:

is it a cabinet, really?

[01:15:11]

fryfrog:

with the dors and the slide out rails and all that?

[01:15:23]

GreyFoxx:

I work for a phonecompany/voip provider/colo facility/ISP

[01:15:24]

opello:

you can put rails in any rack

[01:15:27]

GreyFoxx:

fryfrog: yes

[01:15:34]

opello:

nice

[01:15:39]

fryfrog:

opello: well, there are kind of two racks

[01:15:46]

fryfrog:

there is the big metal thing you bolt to the floor

[01:15:53]

fryfrog:

and there are the uh, big "cabinets"

[01:15:57]

opello:

yeah

[01:16:01]

GreyFoxx:

I wonder if I have any pics of them around here

[01:16:01]

opello:

that just sit there

[01:16:12]

fryfrog:

one is much more condusive to "rails" than the other

[01:16:14]

Dagmar:

There's cabinets, and then there's the kind that *suck*

[01:16:19]

fryfrog:

yeah :)

[01:16:26]

opello:

fryfrog: heh yeah, but you can still put a rail kit in the 'big metal' kind

[01:16:33]

fryfrog:

yeah, sure

[01:16:36]

opello:

it's just not as much fun

[01:16:41]

fryfrog:

it just wasn't really *designed* for that

[01:17:30]

opello:

it wasn't my idea, i just saw it after the fact

[01:17:32]

opello:

heh

[01:17:54]

fryfrog:

hehe

[01:18:00]

opello:

in the 'wiring closet' style rack, vs. the nice cabinets ... it wasn't even in the server room

[01:18:05]

fryfrog:

man, feisty is just going *awesome* with my firewire now

[01:18:45]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: do you do teleconference stuff too ?

[01:18:51]

sn9:

feisty > edgy

[01:18:56]

GreyFoxx:

sokminer: Yes

[01:19:10]

opello:

sn9: strcmp agrees :)

[01:19:16]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: in C Springs w/ HP

[01:19:30]

sokminer:

?

[01:19:36]

Kazan|AFK:

lol opello

[01:19:53]

GreyFoxx:

Nope, located in Canada actually

[01:19:54]

sn9:

not that strcmp() even uses a ">" operator

[01:20:18]

sokminer:

GreyFoxx: ahhhh i know someone blah blah...

[01:20:27]

GreyFoxx:

oh :)

[01:20:27]

Kazan|AFK:

sn9: you can use strcmp() results with the > operator

[01:20:30]

Kazan|AFK:

sn9: for sorting

[01:20:36]

sn9:

yeah

[01:21:04]

sn9:

but why, when it only returns known values?

[01:21:14]

Kazan|AFK:

what...?

[01:21:19]

Kazan|AFK is now known as Kazan

[01:21:24]

sn9:

-1, 0, 1

[01:21:31]

Kazan:

for string sorting...

[01:21:53]

sn9:

switch() statement

[01:21:57]

Kazan:

(i could have sworn the range for strcmp was larger than that....... but maybe that's not C/C++ i'm thinking about)

[01:22:10]

Kazan:

i can't think of any sorts that use switch

[01:22:29]

Kazan:

though... a binary search could use switch with strcmp return

[01:22:36]

sn9:

right

[01:22:52]

opello:

wouldn't that be a ternary search?

[01:22:57]

Kazan:

0 = found

[01:23:24]

opello:

abc, abcd

[01:23:35]

Kazan:

aren't 0

[01:23:42]

sn9:

to use strcmp() for a search, the data must be presorted, though

[01:23:45]

Kazan:

0 is only returned by strcmp for matching strings

[01:23:56]

Kazan:

sn9: yeah, and you can use strcmp to sort

[01:24:06]

opello:

i was wondering what was in the tree

[01:24:32]

Kazan:

strcmp("abc", "abcd") should return 1 IIRC (maybe -1) – but not zero

[01:24:37]

sn9:

yeah, and in doing so, a switch() seems the obvious way to handle the return value

[01:24:37]

opello:

right

[01:24:56]

Kazan:

sn9: true – i'm just used to writing templated sorts

[01:25:06]

opello:

unless all you care about is 'nonzero' but your tree the left/right aspect could be helpful i suppose

[01:25:50]

Dagmar:

The important thing is that it's nonzero if they don't match

[01:25:55]

Kazan:

yeah

[01:26:17]

sn9:

yes, but the subject was strcmp(), not operator>()

[01:26:52]

Kazan:

[pseudo] switch (strcmp(s1, s2)) { case 0: found, case 1 or case 2 reduce search range appropriately to binary search }

[01:27:26]

Dagmar:

er no

[01:27:28]

opello:

i suppose since it's an alphabetical comparison, and the first character is greater, it would return positive 1, which is on the right side of the number line, which would grok the 'greater than' logic?

[01:27:32]

sn9:

my initial humorous point was that when strcmp() is used, operator>() isn't

[01:27:38]

Dagmar:

There's no guarantee strcmp will return -1 or 1 either

[01:27:54]

Dagmar:

All the spec sez is greater than or less than zero

[01:27:57]

Kazan:

Dagmar: it does have a wider range that that then?

[01:28:00]

Kazan:

i thought it did

[01:28:12]

Dagmar:

It's a matter of there being different implementations of it

[01:28:32]

Kazan:

i remember breaking string sorting in some language by trying to use a modified strcmp that clamped to -1 to 1 .. think it was php

[01:28:41]

Dagmar:

If you ever wondered why GNU autoconf scripts do a jillion and one weird checks, this is one of the reasons

[01:29:09]

Dagmar:

Some *might* only return -1 or 1, but you can't assume that, so a switch is kinda out

[01:29:33]

Dagmar:

I've used one o' them newfangled trinaries on it once

[01:29:42]

Dagmar:

...but I was VERY drunk and just lucky it worked

[01:29:47]

Kazan:

0010100111011102

[01:30:02]

Dagmar:

"newfangled" == sarcasm...

[01:30:24]

Dagmar:

<-- started coding before there were trinary operators in programming

[01:30:38]

Kazan:

computers start doing everything internally in 8VSB... everyone's head explodes

[01:30:46]

Kazan:

trinary operator? you mean === ?

[01:30:57]

Kazan:

i cannot think of any operator that takes three operands at once...

[01:31:03]

Dagmar:

THe benadryl may be frying my brain

[01:31:12]

Dagmar:

THe thing with the question mark in it

[01:31:21]

Kazan:

oh

[01:31:38]

Dagmar:

Yep

[01:31:47]

Kazan:

you're right.. that is a trinary operator

[01:31:57]

sn9:

in powerpc asm, most instructions take three operands

[01:31:57]

Kazan:

though.. it's a pair of operators really

[01:31:58]

Anduin:

ternary

[01:32:03]

Kazan:

Anduin wins

[01:32:13]

Dagmar:

Coding on old C-Net BBS taught me some very perverted boolean tricks

[01:32:32]

Kazan:

kinky

[01:32:57]

** Kazan is only 23.... i vaguely remember being on BBSes in their last days before the rise of the modern net in 1993 **

[01:32:57]

sn9:

"i am !!falling."

[01:33:14]

Kazan:

GOAAAAAAAAL

[01:34:01]

Kazan:

..........

[01:34:04]

Dagmar:

I learned in college that Fortran prof's dont find that sort of thing amusing in the least.

[01:34:13]

Kazan:

ha

[01:34:26]

Kazan:

i have the luck of most of my professors expecting C

[01:34:33]

Kazan:

or C++

[01:34:38]

Kazan:

a few expecting java, but i can normally tell them to shuve it and give them C++

[01:34:42]

** sn9 vaguely remembers the first disco era, but we digress **

[01:35:05]

SlicerDicer:

disco inferno!

[01:35:12]

Dagmar:

Disco is for pansies

[01:35:19]

** Kazan doesn't know FORTRAN or COBOL **

[01:35:27]

** Kazan >/dev/null's them **

[01:35:34]

Dagmar:

Thats' where they belong

[01:35:51]

** MaverickTech remembers writing COBOL at university **

[01:35:52]

sn9:

hey, people still write in fortran

[01:36:08]

MaverickTech:

COBOL the programming language of Shakespear

[01:36:10]

Dagmar:

Yes, and some people f**k goats.

[01:36:31]

MaverickTech:

I still write FORTRAN in real life, but goats are not my thing ;)

[01:36:56]

Dagmar:

Just so long as you're not participating in a Haskell pyramid scheme

[01:37:25]

Kazan:

this soccer match is getting dirty

[01:37:52]

sn9:

that's what happens when it rains

[01:37:59]

MaverickTech:

Dagmar: not that I know of, but I can do you a good deal on a bridge – Only 1 owner !

[01:38:19]

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[01:38:19]

Kazan:

i can't believe we haven't see the red card out of the ref's pocket yet

[01:38:33]

Dagmar:

THey must be aussies

[01:38:43]

MaverickTech:

:O

[01:39:20]

Kazan:

whoa LAG

[01:39:24]

sn9:

much swampland in FL is now downtown miami

[01:39:55]

Dagmar:

Ugh

[01:39:58]

Dagmar:

No swampland please

[01:40:08]

Kazan:

suddenly i see all of your messages out of synch with mine

[01:40:18]

Dagmar:

I am trying to not freak out every time I look at the river outside my window after seeing the inundation maps

[01:40:25]

Kazan:

?

[01:40:49]

Dagmar:

THere's a dam in KY that if it breaks, I may get to start fishing from my balcony

[01:41:06]

Kazan:

wee

[01:41:13]

Kazan:

didn't know it's been raining that much out there

[01:41:24]

Dagmar:

It's not. The dam is in very bad shape

[01:41:35]

Dagmar:

If it goes, the Cumberland lake _empties_

[01:41:35]

Kazan:

what dam?

[01:41:43]

Dagmar:

WOlf Creek Dam

[01:41:48]

sn9:

when i first saw the light-rail system in our state capital, i wondered why in some places it went way up in the middle of the air

[01:41:53]

Dagmar:

Search for "wolf creek inundation maps"

[01:42:06]

Kazan:

why hasn't it been serviced?

[01:42:14]

Kazan:

sn9: ?

[01:42:15]

Dagmar:

It has been. Several times.

[01:42:24]

Dagmar:

They're grouting it again now even

[01:42:35]

Kazan:

what county should i look at

[01:42:41]

sn9:

then the yearly winter floods came, and the tracks floated just above the water

[01:42:42]

Kazan:

groting.. that's not going to fix it

[01:42:44]

Kazan:

they need to reinforce it

[01:42:46]

Dagmar:

It's got a serious seepage problem that's basically not-so-slowly washing the foundation away

[01:42:50]

Kazan:

sn9: aah

[01:43:06]

Kazan:

dagmar: sounds like they need to let it slowly drain the lake and rebuild the dam

[01:43:20]

Dagmar:

That's not so easy either

[01:43:28]

Kazan:

we had fun with a US Army Corp of Engineers dam here in iowa in 1993

[01:43:39]

Kazan:

(what county should i look at the maps for)

[01:43:42]

Dagmar:

Tennesse and KY get so much rainwater that we build new lakes every 8 or 9 years

[01:44:00]

Dagmar:

Oh look at Davidson County

[01:44:10]

Dagmar:

Large bits of Nashville will be much damper than usual

[01:44:39]

Kazan:

jeeze

[01:44:50]

Kazan:

so why you building so many new lakes? generate hydropower?

[01:45:01]

Dagmar:

So we don't all wash away

[01:45:05]

Dagmar:

Flood control

[01:45:23]

Dagmar:

...although there is quite a bit of hydroelectric being generated

[01:45:44]

Kazan:

oh fun.. they build a hydroeletric dam in karst

[01:45:46]

Kazan:

brilliant!

[01:45:51]

Dagmar:

I kinda made an ass of myself at the St Louis Airport a few years back trying to get to Defcon

[01:46:02]

Dagmar:

FLights were delayed because two inches of rain fell in Vegas

[01:46:19]

Dagmar:

Two inches of rain in Tennessee is basically a spring shower

[01:46:31]

Kazan:

holy crap.. the original seepage issues due to the karst landscape started in 1968

[01:46:40]

sn9:

10-s-e is not a desert

[01:46:43]

Dagmar:

In Vegas, two inches of rain apparently means the desert invades the city on a raging torrent of water

[01:47:20]

Dagmar:

THere's also the matter of the city has zero drainage

[01:47:34]

Kazan:

yeah

[01:47:38]

sn9:

it gets freezing cold in vegas every night

[01:47:50]

Dagmar:

They have two culverts that run through the place, neither large enough to even hide a small car in

[01:48:33]

Dagmar:

Nashville gets rainstorms a few times a year that are so severe storm drains backflow and tear themselves right out of the street

[01:48:34]

sn9:

365.2425 nights a year

[01:48:42]

Dagmar:

...and we don't even slow down to drive through it

[01:48:48]

TSCHAK:

arrgg, did imdb.pl break again?

[01:48:53]

TSCHAK:

it's currently hanging.

[01:49:03]

TSCHAK:

looks like it's hanging when trying to get a cover.

[01:49:48]

Kazan:

Dagmar: i see from the wiki article they lowered the lake to reduce stress on the dam

[01:50:08]

Dagmar:

Yes, they did, which is why the river is alarmingly higher than usual outside my window right now

[01:50:39]

Dagmar:

I'd *like* to say I'm glad there's no rain in the forecast, but this is April

[01:50:46]

Kazan:

ah... they're not using it for flood control because the risk of failure

[01:50:56]

Dagmar:

Any weather prediction more than 72 hours ahead is basically a joke

[01:51:13]

Kazan:

eh... depends on the source

[01:51:45]

Dagmar:

No, weather here in the spring and early summer is what could easily be construed as a "darwinian factor"

[01:52:03]

Kazan:

4 and 5 day forecasts straight from NWS are right as often as not... inside the three day they get a pretty high confidence level given small tolerances for temperature (+-5 degrees) and precip (+-20%)

[01:52:11]

Dagmar:

You learn as a kid to check the weather in the morning before you head off for school, and again when you get home

[01:52:12]

Kazan:

atleast here anyway

[01:52:24]

Kazan:

in iowa.. where the joke is "don't like the weather? wait five minutes!"

[01:52:35]

Dagmar:

...because it can go from clear to nasty thunderstorms in the space of eight hours, no problem at all

[01:52:56]

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[01:52:59]

** Kazan is pretty well versed in meteorology – if i hadn't learned how to code i'd be doing field research meteorology not computer science :D **

[01:53:49]

Kazan:

i really need to do this homework now

[01:54:59]

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[01:58:07]

Kazan:

ZOMG

[01:58:14]

Kazan:

cats and dogs living togeather!

[01:58:19]

Kazan:

the FCC admitted they did something wrong!

[02:04:34]

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[02:33:17]

Tanthrix:

Something is not quite right with my new TV or my setup

[02:33:44]

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[02:42:02]

Tanthrix:

Alright, I've got a 1080P Sharp Aquos hooked up to a Ti4600 with a DVI>HDMI cable.

[02:42:34]

Tanthrix:

I'm outputting at 1080P, the tv says it's recieving a 1080P signal, and I'm in "Dot by Dot" mode

[02:42:45]

Tanthrix:

There is no overscan, and the resolution is 1080P

[02:43:19]

Tanthrix:

But the picture looks like its covered in sand, noisy and weird

[02:45:40]

Tanthrix:

http://novae-res.org/P1010001.JPG <-- That's a picture of it

[02:46:16]

Tanthrix:

(Looking at a 8MP image that I took a while back, and on my 20 inch monitor when zoomed to be the same size it looks perfectly fine)

[02:46:47]

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[02:47:21]

hjohnson:

probably a bad cable...

[02:47:26]

Sid`:

yeah

[02:47:27]

hjohnson:

go spend $20 and buy a new one. :)

[02:47:28]

Sid`:

that'd be my guess

[02:47:29]

Sid`:

busted cable.

[02:48:11]

hjohnson:

and don't get suckered by those $100 "Monster Cables"

[02:48:21]

Tanthrix:

It's DVI>HDMI though – and the "interferance" is completely consistent, not changing at all

[02:48:45]

Tanthrix:

If it were digital interferance I'd be seeing either nothing at all or an image with "sparkelies" dancing about randomly

[02:48:55]

hjohnson:

Tanthrix: ahh, point...

[02:49:03]

hjohnson:

i tmight be the adapter? I don't know.

[02:49:58]

Tanthrix:

It's very strange.

[02:50:39]

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[02:51:13]

Tanthrix:

It looks like bad jpeg compression almost, without the blocks

[02:52:22]

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[03:00:20]

Tanthrix:

It was the freaking sharpness.

[03:00:33]

Tanthrix:

Apparently 0 doesn't mean "no sharpening" – -10 means no sharpening

[03:01:05]

J-e-f-f-A:

umm.... Sharpenss on a DIGITAL input?!? Strange... thought that was only for compsite & svideo...

[03:01:17]

Tanthrix:

Yah, that's what I thought too.

[03:03:40]

** Tanthrix slowly returns to a normal blood pressure level.. **

[03:08:54]

PaulWay[w]:

That's something to write up and let Google index...

[03:08:56]

PaulWay[w]:

:-)

[03:10:15]

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[03:11:07]

Tanthrix:

Gah! There's a very noticable dead pixel in the middle left

[03:11:48]

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[03:47:54]

TSCHAK:

hmmmmm

[03:48:01]

TSCHAK:

what would cause the volume control not to work?

[03:48:23]

TSCHAK:

i can alter it via my gnome control panel, but mythtv doesn't seem to alter it at all

[03:50:08]

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[03:50:25]

Rongo:

Howdy

[03:52:03]

Rongo:

My myth machine has been running "just swell" (plus or minus 3.2 standard-satisfaction units) for a long time. And today... it has no program guide information displayed in the frontend. I think the backend is also confused, because it isn't recording anything.

[03:52:07]

Rongo:

BUT

[03:52:14]

Rongo:

The database has current data.

[03:52:35]

Rongo:

| 2007-04–12 00:06:00 | 2007-05–02 23:58:00 |

[03:52:49]

Rongo:

Any ideas?

[04:01:14]

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[04:08:11]

clop:

hi guys, i just reinstalled my os. i haev a backup of my mythconverg database, but apparently when i installed myth it reset the password... is there a way to change the mysql password back to what it used to be?

[04:14:37]

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[04:20:29]

cesman:

sure if you knew what it was

[04:20:51]

cesman:

cannot think of the mysql syntax at the moment....

[04:20:59]

clop:

i think i found it on a web page

[04:21:02]

cesman:

been a while since I really played w/ it

[04:21:03]

clop:

sorry i bothered you guys about it :)

[04:21:16]

cesman:

no worries

[04:21:20]

cesman:

at least you aren'

[04:21:36]

cesman:

at least you aren't talking about politics ;)

[04:26:00]

clop:

so about this whole iraq thing...

[04:27:19]

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[04:27:35]

SlicerDicer:

yay my new HD channels are on datadirect

[04:27:37]

Sid`:

do you lot know if there's any decently supported video card available that'll do 720x576p50 on its component port?

[04:27:44]

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[04:27:46]

Sid`:

the Nvidia cards don't support PAL timings on the component output

[04:27:49]

Sid`:

for some bizarre reason

[04:28:42]

sn9:

you're sure it's not a driver issue?

[04:28:48]

SlicerDicer:

hey the iRack and the iRan are brilliant future apple products! http://youtube.com/watch?v=AGHty_S0TU0

[04:29:08]

SlicerDicer:

Sid they are suposto... AFAIK anyway

[04:30:09]

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[04:30:34]

SlicerDicer:

are you sure those people are just not stupid ;-) http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/NVidiaProprietaryDriver

[04:30:51]

SlicerDicer:

tis got pal information there to a degree

[04:34:41]

Sid`:

you can get PAL timings on the Y/C or composite outputs

[04:34:47]

Sid`:

all the way up to 720x576i50

[04:36:39]

MaverickTech:

pondering an upgrade to feisty here :|

[04:37:25]

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[04:40:13]

sn9:

MaverickTech: from dapper or edgy?

[04:40:25]

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[04:40:28]

MaverickTech:

edgy

[04:41:08]

Sid`:

piece of cake

[04:41:13]

Sid`:

worked fine here, anyway

[04:41:15]

Sid`:

nothing broke

[04:53:11]

MaverickTech:

cool, thanks for the update sid

[04:53:47]

Sid`:

there's some updater script that canonical were pushing from their website

[04:53:49]

Sid`:

i ran that

[04:53:54]

Sid`:

apparently apt-get dist-upgrade isn't 100% safe

[04:54:00]

Sid`:

although i know of people who've done that and had it work, too

[04:54:02]

Sid`:

so, i dunno

[04:55:09]

MaverickTech:

is there an updated lirc in the standard distro ?

[04:55:29]

Sid`:

not sure, i don't use lirc :)

[04:55:38]

Sid`:

IR sensor is USB and looks like a USB HID dev

[04:56:02]

MaverickTech:

:(

[04:56:11]

MaverickTech:

oops, :( <<< wrong channel

[04:56:17]

Sid`:

heh

[04:56:34]

MaverickTech:

I have a USB HID dev currently, but it is a crappy remote

[04:56:50]

MaverickTech:

I want to use the cool one that comes with my capture card

[04:57:02]

Sid`:

and lirc doesn't play ball?

[04:57:02]

pat_:

got a link on theat IR sensor stuff?

[04:57:44]

Sid`:

nah, it came with a cheap and crappy DVB card i bought

[04:57:53]

pat_:

aah

[04:58:06]

MaverickTech:

I need the gpio driver and can't get it to compile :|

[04:59:16]

Sid`:

whats the error?

[04:59:18]

MaverickTech:

my card/remote was not supported as of the last distro version of lirc that I could get

[04:59:29]

MaverickTech:

sid : I will try compile now

[04:59:37]

MaverickTech:

let me ssh to my home machine

[04:59:48]

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[05:00:03]

Sid`:

alright

[05:00:06]

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[05:00:21]

sn9:

"the last distro" — is that a movie mythed off the WAM! channel?

[05:00:38]

sn9:

;->

[05:00:38]

MaverickTech:

the book was better :p

[05:02:59]

MaverickTech:

I will have to build the ./configure again – the whole thing is fried currently :(

[05:03:10]

Sid`:

rad

[05:03:12]

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[05:03:20]

MaverickTech:

lirc_dev.c:28:27: error: linux/version.h: No such file or directory <<< kinda fundamental problem :p

[05:03:36]

Sid`:

ahh

[05:03:37]

Sid`:

yes

[05:03:43]

sn9:

make modules_prepare

[05:03:43]

Sid`:

that's not a big deal

[05:03:50]

Sid`:

if memory serves, version.h was deprecated

[05:03:55]

Sid`:

you can hack around it

[05:03:58]

Sid`:

lemme see if i recall how

[05:04:48]

MaverickTech:

I am just checking the paths in config

[05:05:07]

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[05:05:19]

ryty:

how does one create a channels.conf for azap?

[05:05:33]

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[05:06:24]

Sid`:

MaverickTech: make sure your kernel source is configured, and that /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/include/linux/ exists

[05:07:34]

MaverickTech:

hmmm

[05:08:54]

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[05:12:57]

MaverickTech:

no include/linux

[05:13:06]

MaverickTech:

what have I screwed up recently

[05:13:49]

sn9:

if it's ubuntu, sudo apt-get install linux-headers

[05:14:06]

Sid`:

yeah

[05:14:08]

Sid`:

that'll do it

[05:14:44]

MaverickTech:

it's already installed

[05:15:20]

Sid`:

hmmm

[05:15:34]

Sid`:

those headers match your kernel?

[05:15:44]

MaverickTech:

ye[p

[05:16:11]

Sid`:

ah

[05:16:12]

Sid`:

shit

[05:16:16]

MaverickTech:

an dpkg -L confirms it's installed to /lib/modules/, amoung other directories

[05:16:16]

Sid`:

ls /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/include/linux

[05:16:21]

Sid`:

i forgot the /build/

[05:16:31]

MaverickTech:

:p

[05:16:34]

MaverickTech:

aok then

[05:16:36]

MaverickTech:

they're there

[05:17:12]

Sid`:

ah rad

[05:17:16]

Sid`:

including version.h?

[05:18:14]

MaverickTech:

just rebuilding config

[05:20:26]

MaverickTech:

I am sure I have a dodgy 'ln' somewhere

[05:20:35]

Sid`:

most likely

[05:20:49]

Sid`:

the cheap hack is to link /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build/include/linux to /usr/include/linux

[05:21:04]

Sid`:

although whatever configure script you're using SHOULD be using kbuild

[05:23:12]

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[05:29:43]

ryty:

for some reason, my firmware isn't loading. I followed the instructions on: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI_HDTV_Wonder#Firmware

[05:30:14]

MaverickTech:

Sid`: I will have to deal with this later :( work is getting in the way

[05:30:56]

Sid`:

righto

[05:31:18]

ryty:

Anyone have any ideas?

[05:31:36]

ryty:

(I also couldn't try the azap test as I don't have a channels.conf)

[05:31:54]

ryty:

however...I was able to scan for and find many HD channels

[05:32:04]

ryty:

just got a really fuzzy signal

[05:32:04]

MaverickTech:

thanks for the assistance Sid`

[05:32:42]

Sid`:

np

[05:37:25]

pat_:

cd /usr/src/softpad/

[05:37:29]

pat_:

bugger

[05:37:53]

pigeon:

pat_: No such file or directory

[05:37:59]

MaverickTech:

/usr/src/softpad/#

[05:39:51]

MaverickTech:

I want to apply softpad against -head

[05:40:16]

MaverickTech:

but the patch's will not be right against head I don't think

[05:41:43]

ryty:

is there any way to export the channel data in mysql to a channels.conf?

[05:42:00]

ryty:

or, through mythtv for that matter?

[05:42:13]

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[05:42:58]

pat_:

oh well, numprogramlines isn't included anywhere in xbmcmythtv, so I think I might get lucky

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pat_:

MaverickTech: have you tried?

[05:53:51]

MaverickTech:

no

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[06:03:22]

ryty:

so I'm getting no picture, but am able to scan and pick up many channels using this dvb card. Could this be a result of the firmward not loading properly?

[06:03:44]

Chicago:

ryty: Did you read the dmesg output about your ivtv driver?

[06:04:21]

MaverickTech:

pat_: I need to get some clear time to update it

[06:05:08]

ryty:

Chicago: no. I read and followed the instructions on this page: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATI_HDTV_Wonder#Firmware

[06:05:24]

ryty:

I don't have a channels.conf however, and so, am unable to test the firmware

[06:05:36]

ryty:

unless you know of another way?

[06:06:55]

Chicago:

I don't have an ATI_HDTV Wonder tuner. I do use V4L in the kernel and that does show the IVTV module loading the firmware on bootup. If your driver module boots with the kernel, you can see if the firmware was loaded (probably).

[06:07:19]

Chicago:

Just do 'dmesg' at the command prompt. or do 'dmesg > dmesg.txt' and pastebin it.

[06:08:21]

ryty:

http://www.pastebin.ca/449426

[06:08:28]

ryty:

you'll have to forgive me..it's a little long

[06:08:36]

Chicago:

no worries

[06:09:08]

ryty:

hmm..doesn't go all the way back

[06:09:15]

ryty:

perhaps a quick reboot would assist the situation

[06:09:35]

ryty:

be right back

[06:09:39]

Chicago:

That is a lot of shit in there.

[06:09:42]

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[06:15:48]

ryty:

I found my problem...but don't know why it's happening.

[06:15:54]

ryty:

posting new dmesg now

[06:16:34]

Chicago:

okay

[06:16:39]

ryty:

http://www.pastebin.ca/449437

[06:16:55]

ryty:

nxt2004: No firmware uploaded (timeout or file not found?)

[06:17:08]

ryty:

it's not seeing it...or something? strange

[06:17:13]

Chicago:

Line #356

[06:17:42]

ryty:

so it tries but fails

[06:17:50]

Chicago:

Hmm... perhaps the file isn't there? Does /var/log/messages include a permissions or file not found error?

[06:18:03]

ryty:

I chmodded it to 777

[06:18:16]

ryty:

and the file is in the directory I was told to put it in

[06:18:21]

ryty:

(the other choice didn't exist)

[06:18:31]

Chicago:

Well, then tell the computer to make it work :p

[06:18:36]

ryty:

lol

[06:19:14]

Chicago:

Type ' locate dvb-fe-nxt2004.fw '

[06:19:56]

Chicago:

BTW... could be your brand new 2.6.20.7 kernel... I haven't tested beyond 2.6.19.5 yet.

[06:20:58]

ryty:

hmm, could be

[06:22:06]

Chicago:

I'm emerging the 2.6.20 kernel and going to have to compile it here before moring.

[06:22:58]

ryty:

could also be some hotplug setting also...I don't mess with it very much. Could be misconfiguration on my part

[06:23:28]

Chicago:

Thats a lot of shit on Gentoo... first compile the new kernel... then compile your toolkit with the new kernel... then compile the compiler... THEN... compile the kernel again with the new compiler and then boot with the new kernel and then recompile everything with the new kernel and new compiler.... takes a long time... maybe 10 days.

[06:23:59]

Chicago:

Do you have a 'update-modules -f' or 'modules-update -f' command?

[06:25:35]

ryty:

update-modules -f, yes

[06:25:42]

Tanthrix:

Anyone know of stuck on pixels generally have halos around them? I've got a stuck on pixel on my new set, which isn't that big of a deal, but there is a *slight* white-ish halo around it

[06:25:52]

Tanthrix:

Gotta look for it to see it, but it's definately there

[06:26:10]

ryty:

if in Windows, UDPixel seems to work, so I've heard

[06:26:59]

Tanthrix:

Hrm, I might give that a try. But I don't know if it's the stuck on pixel that's causing the halo, or if it's a manufacturing defect of some kind related to the pixel

[06:27:37]

ryty:

unplug the monitor for a few minutes and see if it comes back

[06:27:52]

ryty:

it may just be your eyes deceiving you

[06:28:03]

ryty:

(the halo effect, I mean)

[06:28:24]

Tanthrix:

No, it's there. GF sees it as well. And it's not just on dark stuff (which would make sense)

[06:28:34]

ryty:

hmm

[06:28:38]

ryty:

LCD?

[06:29:15]

ryty:

if so, it could be a small LC leak

[06:30:19]

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[06:30:30]

mattwj2005:

hey guys

[06:30:57]

ryty:

Chicago: before you go through too much trouble...it looks like it's working now!

[06:31:11]

ryty:

now, how do I adjust the colors? (It's a bluish tint)

[06:31:51]

Chicago:

Do you have XV color control?

[06:32:02]

Tanthrix:

ryty: Aye.

[06:32:21]

Tanthrix:

ryty: You know, it might just be the glow from the pixel.

[06:32:24]

** Tanthrix goes crazy **

[06:32:45]

ryty:

Chicago: you know, I'm not sure. Is there an easy way to find out?

[06:33:16]

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[06:33:50]

Chicago:

ryty: Also, for real picture contrast you should have a whitish light (not bright) against the background of your viewing area'

[06:34:20]

Tanthrix:

ryty: Going to give this a try: http://www.jscreenfix.com/basic.php

[06:35:04]

ryty:

Tanthrix: that's kinda what UDPixel did...was just adjustable so you could focus it on an area..and it was always on top, so you could keep working

[06:35:42]

ryty:

Chicago: so, there's no real way to adjust color in the Mythtv input?

[06:36:39]

Tanthrix:

ryty: Yah, just installed it on my windows machine. Pretty cool idea. Could leave it going for weeks without too much bother (for the very optimistic)

[06:36:48]

Chicago:

ryty: I have a DVD I use to calibrate my monitor.

[06:37:09]

Chicago:

ryty: Then, I calibrate my window manager.

[06:37:20]

Chicago:

ryty: Then, I calibrate my encoder.

[06:37:32]

Chicago:

... then there is some harmony

[06:38:06]

Chicago:

There is actually a lot of compositing going on under the pixel.

[06:39:41]

Tanthrix:

Calibration is tricky stuff.

[06:40:18]

Tanthrix:

I borrowed a hardware calibrator from work – worked great for developing a good workflow for my photograph. What I see on the screen is practically exactly what comes back from the printer

[06:40:26]

Tanthrix:

photography*

[06:41:20]

Chicago:

Tanthrix: exif?

[06:41:36]

Tanthrix:

Hrm?

[06:42:57]

Tanthrix:

What do jpeg Exif's have to do with calibration?

[06:46:19]

ryty:

hmm, I'm getting occasional pauses in video/sound...I bet it's the DMA on the drive

[06:46:49]

Chicago:

ryty: Have you used hdparm? Does your mythtv show that realtime is enabled?

[06:47:13]

ryty:

Chicago: yah, but for some reason my SATA drive doesn't like it.

[06:47:45]

ryty:

let me try putting MythTV's default directory on another drive with DMA enabled for a sec

[06:48:11]

Chicago:

ryty: I also chmod g+s on the mythtv binaries and have the group owner of them a group with realtime privs... so that no matter which user calls the app... only that binary and always it will have realtime.

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[06:57:11]

ryty:

okay, bedtime

[06:57:16]

ryty:

thanks for the help guys

[06:57:17]

ryty:

goodnight

[06:57:28]

Tanthrix:

ryty: Thanks for the pixel app link

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[09:40:53]

juski:

TFIF :)

[09:41:13]

juski:

dsp_rest 0

[09:42:35]

anykey_:

argh, my box is too slow to play 720p x264 content :|

[09:43:13]

directhex|work:

need moar meghurtzzz!

[09:43:39]

anykey_:

if it was only that...

[09:43:56]

anykey_:

more mhz -> new cpu -> new socket -> new ram -> new motherboard -> $$$

[09:45:18]

directhex|work:

need moar meghurtzzz!

[09:45:24]

juski:

I don't have a machine that can even play 720p mpeg2!

[09:45:45]

anykey_:

juski: I thought you had an Athlon 2600+?

[09:45:46]

directhex|work:

i reckon my machine could do both if it wanted to

[09:45:56]

juski:

anykey_: 2800XP

[09:46:02]

directhex|work:

now i've freed up both cores from the wrath of mepo's throbbing logo anyway

[09:46:23]

anykey_:

juski: this machine doesn't handle x264 720p?

[09:46:34]

Ruleke:

no xvmc ?

[09:46:38]

juski:

anykey_: it's 20mbit

[09:46:40]

juski:

not linux

[09:46:41]

anykey_:

juski: ah

[09:47:16]

juski:

is 20mbit a lot for 720p?

[09:47:16]

anykey_:

juski: I have a pentium-m 1.6ghz that handles 720p x264 on gnome, I need to find out if the 2600xp handles it...

[09:47:31]

Ruleke:

I'd love to hear what cpu is needed for h264 1080p...

[09:47:45]

juski:

just goes to show how shitty athlons are then

[09:48:05]

Ruleke:

post-netburst intel is ok indeed

[09:48:06]

anykey_:

nah, they're not sooo bad, actually

[09:49:16]

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[09:58:03]

anykey_:

do you think an AMD Athlon64 3200+ could handle at least 720p x264?

[10:00:34]

directhex|work:

that's roughly equivalent in speed to the 1.6 pentium-m

[10:00:36]

directhex|work:

so probably

[10:01:40]

anykey_:

hm, but no way to 1080i/p I think

[10:01:56]

directhex|work:

i'd suggest something a smidge meatier for 1080p

[10:02:19]

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[10:02:24]

directhex|work:

1080i isn't gonna take much more than 720p, since both are about the same bandwidth

[10:02:38]

anykey_:

directhex|work: though the 1080i needs deinterlacing

[10:02:53]

directhex|work:

yeah, true

[10:04:06]

anykey_:

I'm just considering buying a AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ EE for my backend and move the backend cpu / board to the frontend (3200+)..

[10:04:44]

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[10:04:51]

directhex|work:

if my maths are correct, uncompressed 720p video should take about 160Meg/sec bandwidth, whilst 1080i is about 180Meg/sec. the uncompressed values are technically worthless, but illustrative for comparing the two

[10:05:14]

anykey_:

well anyway, my tv doesn't do 1080anything

[10:05:49]

directhex|work:

do you need a 3800+ in the back-end?

[10:06:10]

anykey_:

directhex|work: i need a dualcore cpu in the backend, and the 3800+ is the cheapest available

[10:06:25]

anykey_:

directhex|work: software-raid5 can heat up cpu...

[10:06:29]

Ruleke:

what would need to be done at the backend ?

[10:06:30]

anykey_:

*eat up*

[10:06:36]

Ruleke:

you're jokign right ?

[10:06:49]

Ruleke:

when have you seen linux md raid5 eat cpu ??

[10:06:54]

directhex|work:

anykey_, only if you're doing some SERIOUS disk access

[10:07:10]

directhex|work:

anykey_, consider than top-of-the-range 16-drive hardware raid controllers are only ~400mhz

[10:07:39]

Ruleke:

dedicated Xor engines basically :P

[10:08:20]

directhex|work:

iowait

[10:08:27]

anykey_:

hm

[10:08:37]

anykey_:

good point

[10:08:49]

directhex|work:

i have similar problems with a high-end hardware controller

[10:08:58]

anykey_:

I think what you want to suggest is using the 3800+ for the frontend?

[10:09:01]

directhex|work:

iowait means load averages, but not cpu load

[10:09:07]

Ruleke:

my p2–300 backend is doing fine with its raid5

[10:09:13]

directhex|work:

yeah, i want to suggest using the 3800 in the frontend

[10:09:16]

anykey_:

ok

[10:09:39]

directhex|work:

are any x264 decoders multithreaded, for dual coreness?

[10:09:48]

anykey_:

directhex|work: I don't think they are yet

[10:09:57]

Ruleke:

coreavc thing is iirc

[10:09:59]

Ruleke:

bbl

[10:09:59]

anykey_:

but there are many changes in the x264 part of ffmpeg atm

[10:10:21]

anykey_:

though I wanted to get a new board for my backend, because the old one is simply crap

[10:10:24]

directhex|work:

that should be good. i've been using x264 for all my recent dvd rips, it'll be nice to see improved support

[10:12:11]

anykey_:

directhex|work: the problem with iowait is, that if that happens the recordings have stutter in them anyways... I think I could get a spare disk for the recordings though

[10:12:48]

directhex|work:

anykey_, iowait is to be expected if your disk bandwidth is slower than your network connection, surely?

[10:13:32]

anykey_:

directhex|work: ok, but if i record something while some heavy disk usage is going on, the recording has lost frames

[10:13:51]

directhex|work:

anykey_, yes, that's true

[10:14:03]

anykey_:

directhex|work: what I wanted to ask: if I had a spare disk for the recordings, would the iowait still affect that disk?

[10:14:34]

directhex|work:

anykey_, depends on where the bottleneck is

[10:14:55]

anykey_:

hm

[10:15:16]

anykey_:

how to find out? ;-)

[10:15:45]

directhex|work:

what's your current disk arrangement? disks, controller, etc

[10:16:30]

anykey_:

directhex|work: 3x SATA disks @ onboard via controller, 4x SATA disks @ dedicated promise PCI controller, 1x IDE @ via ide controller

[10:17:02]

directhex|work:

does the ide disk have a dedicated channel, or is it master/slaved with something else?

[10:17:20]

anykey_:

directhex|work: only one ide device in the whole system

[10:17:31]

directhex|work:

no cd drive?

[10:17:34]

anykey_:

nope

[10:17:58]

anykey_:

that would eat up a slot for a disk drive in the case :D

[10:18:34]

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[10:18:39]

hads:

That's a lot of disk heat.

[10:18:41]

directhex|work:

your case needs more drive space! i can fit at least 5 more disks into mine without pulling the dvd writer!

[10:18:55]

hads:

and noise

[10:18:57]

directhex|work:

hads, not a problem depending on fan placement & brand of disk

[10:19:29]

anykey_:

hads: this machine is right near the livingroom (no wall between), and you can't hear it...

[10:19:40]

hads:

Surprising.

[10:19:51]

anykey_:

heh, samsung drives :-)

[10:19:55]

anykey_:

but, bbl, eating

[10:20:07]

directhex|work:

see, anykey_ knows how to keep drive noise down

[10:33:51]

gbee:

unfortunately, the fans I'm using – not so quiet

[10:33:58]

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[10:49:48]

** juski uploads another 15MB chunk of video **

[10:49:49]

hads:

Yay, got a decent base of some python bindings now.

[10:50:06]

hads:

Well, library.

[10:51:30]

juski:

oh dear. this new ui is _supposed_ to be an improvement on the previous model's.. but it'ssingularly THE slowest I've ever seen

[10:52:00]

juski:

press a key.. please wait.. please wait... please wait.. aha

[10:52:16]

juski:

stupid framebuffer rubbish

[10:54:06]

directhex|work:

juski got a ps3? ;)

[10:57:07]

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[10:57:45]

juski:

nah I'm not made o money

[11:00:26]

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[11:10:10]

anykey_:

re

[11:10:31]

anykey_:

directhex|work: so, I tried x264 playback on my actual frontend now

[11:11:17]

anykey_:

directhex|work: I was wrong about the cpu that was inside, it's an Intel Celeron-M 1.5 Ghz, and it plays 720p x264 content without *any* stutters :)

[11:15:07]

directhex|work:

anykey_, core doesn't need much cache, so the celerons aren't bad

[11:15:15]

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[11:15:18]

directhex|work:

netburst is where the celerons suck golf balls through a straw

[11:16:21]

anykey_:

directhex|work: it's not core I think

[11:16:33]

anykey_:

directhex|work: it's based on the old pentium-m (dothan core)

[11:16:34]

directhex|work:

pentium-m is core, give or take

[11:16:37]

anykey_:

oh ok

[11:16:45]

anykey_:

they renamed it then :D

[11:16:49]

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[11:16:49]

directhex|work:

dothan and banias are pretty much direct precursors to core

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[11:17:28]

directhex|work:

i used to have a 1.6 dothan in my myth box, before i sold it

[11:17:39]

juski:

so hang on – lemme see if I'm getting this.. a celeron M 1.5Ghz beat the ass of an athlon 64 3800?

[11:17:49]

anykey_:

juski: it's 720p, not 1080p

[11:17:54]

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[11:17:58]

juski:

i.e. the athlon couldn't play h.264 HD & the celery could?

[11:19:19]

juski:

ach whatever. by the time I get around to replacing my XP CPUs there'll be optical CPUs in the highstreet

[11:19:38]

directhex|work:

juski, it was a 2600+ i think, and pentium-m and co give performance about twice that of their speed, in amd processor numer terms (i.e. 1.6ghz pentium-m should outpace a 3200+)

[11:20:25]

juski:

that's what I've been talking about with regard to AMD making up their numbers

[11:20:39]

anykey_:

though the 3200+ should be able to playback 720p, as my Celeron-M is about 70% cpu usage when playing

[11:20:49]

hads:

Well, they are just product names.

[11:21:04]

juski:

marketing bollocks more like :)

[11:21:26]

directhex|work:

nah, they make sense, sort of

[11:21:29]

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[11:21:32]

juski:

there's a spare P4 lying round at work somebody said I could have

[11:21:35]

gbee:

hurray, finally got reading from albumart from id3v2 tags working – spent far too long trying to make a QByteArray work when it was clear that it's was broken in this version of QT

[11:21:39]

juski:

might snaffle it

[11:22:00]

directhex|work:

back when netburst and athlon xp were new, how were amd meant to convince buyers that 1.4ghz was faster than 1.8ghz?

[11:22:29]

juski:

directhex|work: by confusing them with made-up numbers! yay!

[11:23:01]

directhex|work:

juski, for the average grunt who buys from pc world, the made up numbers which were more or less comparable to real intel numbers were useful

[11:23:09]

juski:

are intel still better for floating point stuff, or did amd ever catch up ?

[11:23:11]

directhex|work:

juski, intel's modern numbering schemes are a lot less helpful

[11:23:26]

directhex|work:

e.g. this system has a core 2 duo t7400

[11:23:35]

directhex|work:

intel still shits on amd for floating point

[11:23:38]

juski:

I really only need grunt for rendering video, so FP performance is king

[11:24:10]

juski:

right. that's made up my mind. I'm gonna go core duo when i go

[11:24:45]

directhex|work:

we get ~100% speed difference in pure float operatins in our benchmarks (which are NOT typical end-user applications)

[11:25:04]

directhex|work:

once memory bandwidth gets involved it's a different story, since intel can't compete on that front

[11:25:16]

juski:

yeah well rendering video to mpeg2 is hardly a typical end-user application ;)

[11:25:44]

directhex|work:

it's something netburst was always good at

[11:26:11]

directhex|work:

once upon a time, a 50% overclocked 2ghz celeron was a great choice for mpeg hackery

[11:26:30]

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[11:27:29]

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[11:27:34]

juski:

wouldn't it be nice if there was a) a card you could offload media encoding to and b) software that supported it ;)

[11:27:50]

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[11:27:50]

juski:

I'd settle for real-time rendering

[11:28:07]

directhex|work:

b) is the key

[11:28:15]

fryfrog:

when does the new amd architecture come out, any idea?

[11:28:17]

directhex|work:

a) i can sort you out for only five grand

[11:28:44]

juski:

I know there are hardware video editing cards from canopus etc but they all rely on Adobe Premiere, which is the rat's ass of video editors IMHO

[11:28:52]

directhex|work:

or you could even do it on a GPU. AMD and nVidia are both confident in their cards' ability for general-purpose gubbins, and a 48-pipeline card might be good

[11:28:58]

janneg:

fryfrog: opteron in summer, athlon64 end of year

[11:29:10]

fryfrog:

ah

[11:29:23]

juski:

directhex|work: I've seen Tenomichi edit gold, but that's way too Fisher-Price for my taste :)

[11:29:25]

fryfrog:

any idea if its gonna be socket AM2? or something new?

[11:30:18]

janneg:

and k8 should beat every intel cpu (same clock) at floating point performance (except itanium)

[11:30:24]

juski:

ohyeah.. gimme some of that

[11:32:50]

juski:

can the new via thing play h.264 HDTV though? that's the burning question here

[11:47:37]

Ruleke:

I almost never use distro kernels at home

[11:48:14]

anykey_:

Solv: DVI is enough for Highdef ;-)

[11:48:43]

Solv:

frink_, to get the latest kernel it will be in a 'testing' or 'unstable' repo

[11:49:01]

Solv:

anykey_, well it doesn't look like the via board as dvi onboard though

[11:49:09]

frink_:

Solv: will it magically upgrabe all the modules and stuff?

[11:49:20]

anykey_:

Solv: ok

[11:49:21]

Solv:

frink_, yes if you use yum

[11:49:31]

frink_:

Solv: and much prayer ;-)

[11:49:42]

frink_:

So What repository should I use? Do you know any?

[11:50:00]

Solv:

if it's not in the core repos, then try out freshrpms and dries

[11:50:06]

Solv:

or livna

[11:50:14]

Solv:

but DO NOT use livna with dries and fresh

[11:50:29]

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[11:50:48]

Solv:

goto the relevant websites and download the rpm,a nd it will automagically set the repo up for you

[11:52:32]

frink_:

Thanks, I'll have a go now :)

[11:53:11]

juski:

frink_: I'd plug in my dvb-t tuners in the backend of course!

[11:53:49]

Solv:

juski, yes good point

[11:56:00]

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[11:56:02]

tzanger:

morning

[11:58:45]

Solv:

tzanger, how much have you had to drink when this happens?

[11:58:50]

tzanger:

Solv: hahaha

[11:59:06]

tzanger:

my fiancee is right beside me when it happens and she sees it too, and she doesn't drink

[11:59:12]

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[11:59:23]

kslater:

I've seen several of my laptops with ir drive the mythbox crazy

[11:59:28]

kslater:

but nothing like you described

[12:00:12]

tzanger:

hmm

[12:00:19]

tzanger:

it doesn't happen very often

[12:03:47]

Ruleke:

sun on the box ? :P

[12:06:12]

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[12:08:09]

tzanger:

:-)

[12:10:28]

juski:

fluorescent lights?

[12:10:43]

juski:

infrared headphones?

[12:11:16]

gardengnome:

cosmic rays?

[12:12:10]

juski:

bit weevils?

[12:14:12]

kslater:

one of your kids been shopping at ThinkGeeks?

[12:16:48]

Ruleke:

crappy IR could be

[12:17:00]

Ruleke:

I had a crappy serial one once that did phantom signals

[12:19:51]

gbee:

stop being silly, it's obviously a haunted mythtvbox

[12:21:39]

Ruleke:

it's become self aware ;)

[12:21:57]

Ruleke:

born from the chaos of tv programming... I say destroy it now :)

[12:21:58]

kslater:

did it join skynet?

[12:22:19]

Ruleke:

one of the first ISPs over here is called skynet

[12:22:47]

kslater:

isn't that the self-aware defense network in Terminator?

[12:23:06]

Ruleke:

yeah not sure which came first

[12:23:28]

Ruleke:

the movie is quite old I think

[12:25:14]

kslater:

1984

[12:25:21]

kslater:

believe it or not

[12:25:30]

Ruleke:

yikes :)

[12:25:35]

Ruleke:

I'm getting old

[12:25:46]

frink_:

80s tastic movies..

[12:25:52]

kslater:

yeah, I'm not getting old, I am old. And I stopped counting up

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[12:49:41]

kslater:

tzanger – so when you say myth goes crazy, what is actually happening?

[12:49:42]

directhex|work:

bit weevils, like juski said

[12:50:06]

kslater:

I'm assuming that it doesn't talk to itself in an audible voice for example

[12:51:10]

tzanger:

kslater: it's as if the arrow-right button is being hit... fast forwards to the end of the movie, movie stops, backs out to the watch recordings screen, tries to set options for the recording, gets kind of stuck there... if I use the quit or other buttons it accepts them but hten right-arrows again and again

[12:51:24]

fryfrog:

holey cow

[12:51:29]

fryfrog:

that is weird

[12:52:37]

kslater:

but it only does this once in a while and only when you play back movies?

[12:52:54]

fryfrog:

on a totally unrelated note, my mythcommflag processes seem to ... die off randomly before finishing a commflag run

[12:53:35]

fryfrog:

i've been having to go into the db and mark them as "flagged" and then delete from the job queue

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[14:09:54]

Dolemite:

Hi, I'm trying to figure out what I missed... I can't nuvexport anymore and when I run it in debug mode, it's 1 hour off in what it's passing to mythtranscode...

[14:10:17]

Dolemite:

I did the OS patch for the DST patch, but apparently something else had to be done... or at least, it looks that way?

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[14:17:10]

tzanger:

fryfrog: yes, it is weird. I have not ruled out the remote receiver yet though

[14:17:19]

tzanger:

I'm also seeing some weird commercial skip behavior

[14:17:23]

tzanger:

overall it's very good though, I love it

[14:17:31]

tzanger:

I need to add a "skip 30s" button to my remote file

[14:21:21]

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[14:23:03]

GrizzlyAdams:

anyone know why after i exit edit mode, my edits are reverted?

[14:23:15]

GrizzlyAdams:

ie, mythtv isn't saving the cutlist

[14:23:40]

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[14:23:56]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

paging juski

[14:24:07]

directhex|work:

run, juski. run!

[14:24:12]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

yes, run

[14:24:15]

clop:

hi, i'm having trouble restoring my mythtv system; the backend doesn't seem to load when i use /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start, and i don't even get any output in /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log... any ideas?

[14:24:47]

directhex|work:

clop, is the process running? check in ps

[14:24:48]

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[14:25:11]

clop:

directhex|work, no, i don't see any processses with ps ax | grep myth

[14:25:22]

fryfrog:

sounds like it isn't startingup

[14:25:30]

fryfrog:

check out your init.d script and try what its doing

[14:25:42]

fryfrog:

probably "mythbackend -v important -l /var/log/somefile.log

[14:25:48]

directhex|work:

yeah, try running whatever the init script runs, in the foreground

[14:28:28]

clop:

ooh, it looks like it can't do stuff because of permissions

[14:28:32]

clop:

thanks i think i know what i need to do

[14:28:44]

clop:

i dont think i chmod'd its drive for its new userid or whatever

[14:28:49]

fryfrog:

maybe "sudo /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start"

[14:28:58]

fryfrog:

do you use teh ubuntu?

[14:29:13]

clop:

yep

[14:29:43]

fryfrog:

did you forget "sudo"?

[14:30:09]

directhex|work:

i suspect the mythv user lacks write permissions to the recordings dir, given the description given

[14:30:20]

clop:

yeah, i think that's what's happening

[14:30:42]

clop:

sorry i meant chmod it not chown it :)

[14:30:44]

clop:

er

[14:30:46]

clop:

dammit the other way around

[14:30:54]

directhex|work:

clop, assume we know what you meant

[14:30:59]

clop:

:)

[14:31:05]

directhex|work:

clop, too much rum for this time of the day i think :p

[14:33:15]

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[14:34:31]

clop:

hrmn, now i have the message: QServerSocket: failed to bind or listen to the socket

[14:34:32]

clop:

2007-04–20 09:33:49.173 Failed to bind port 6543. Exiting.

[14:35:37]

clop:

aah it works, i just forgot the sudo this time

[14:35:47]

clop:

fryfrog is so good he knows the error's i'm about to commit

[14:36:11]

clop:

thanks a lot guys, this is a big relief; the wife won't be angry i broke her tv anymore :)

[14:36:14]

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[14:56:15]

Wad:

hi

[14:57:23]

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[14:59:14]

Wad:

Can anyone explain me how the video stream is transmitted between the backend and the frontend ?

[14:59:50]

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[15:00:31]

cesman:

hello

[15:00:48]

cesman:

sorry, I do know the technical details

[15:01:01]

cesman:

it is streamed using MythTV's own protocol

[15:01:37]

fryfrog:

you can also just use nfs

[15:01:47]

fryfrog:

if it finds the files locally, it'll use em

[15:02:47]

Wad:

yes I know, but I'm trying to understand why I can't see any traffic on my local network ?

[15:03:59]

psofa:

hmm fun

[15:04:11]

pat_:

are you using a switched network and trying to view the traffic from a separate computer (non front/backend)?

[15:05:06]

psofa:

scrolling firefox on display :0.0 makes both mythtv on display :0.1 and firefox freeze for 5 secs

[15:05:44]

Hoxzer:

has somebody here setup mplayer to work with crappy GF2 tv-out (video stream borders)

[15:05:59]

Wad:

in fact, front/backend are on the same computer and I look the network with wireshark on lo

[15:06:02]

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[15:10:10]

jvs:

g'day

[15:10:37]

pat_:

oi, oi, oi

[15:11:47]

clop:

i'm trying to reinstall lirc now, and i'm doing the reconfigure of lirc-modules-source, but it insists that /usr/src/linux is not a valid source tree even though i just extracted the kernel there

[15:12:32]

gardengnome:

clop: you need to build that kernel as well. however, your distro might have a pakcage with kernel headers you should use instead

[15:12:43]

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[15:12:52]

Wad:

pat_ ???

[15:12:55]

clop:

ok, i'll try those dirs

[15:13:07]

directhex|work:

clop, yeah, that. you don't want kernel source, you want linux-headers-$(uname -r)

[15:13:23]

fryfrog:

clop: you used apt to install the kernel source, right?

[15:13:42]

fryfrog:

it made a tar.bz2? then you extracted that? then you symlinked linux to the source dir?

[15:13:52]

fryfrog:

then you cp /boot/config-*something* .config?

[15:13:56]

fryfrog:

then "make oldconfig"

[15:14:16]

fryfrog:

then *maybe* even a "make && make modules" to get everything all prepped for stuff to compile against?

[15:14:17]

directhex|work:

fryfrog, why bother, when all he needs is the preconfigured kernel headers?

[15:14:30]

fryfrog:

oh, well if that works :)

[15:16:21]

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[15:17:53]

clop:

hrmn, i got through the dpkg-reconfigure ok this time, but now when i try to run /etc/init.d/lirc start it says it can't load the required modules

[15:18:13]

pat_:

wad, a popular chant at aussie sporting events is "aussie, aussie, aussie. oi, oi, oi. aussie, oi, aussie, oi, aussie, aussie, aussie, oi, oi, oi" and the g'day was just a prompter

[15:18:40]

fryfrog:

are you following some guide?

[15:18:53]

fryfrog:

cause, i thought lirc installed some source, then you run like "m-i" or "a-m" or something to compile the modules yourself

[15:19:23]

clop:

hrmn, i see some stuf flike that i'll try :)

[15:19:48]

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[15:20:09]

Wad:

ok pat_, But I'm French, and I haven't got the same popular chant :D

[15:21:03]

directhex|work:

allez les bleus?

[15:21:10]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

juski you in here? or for that matter anyone on the website design team

[15:22:21]

clop:

hrmn, it seems to be happy when i use /etc/init.d/lirc start now, but irw won't connect to it

[15:23:24]

directhex|work:

clop, welcome to lirc :)

[15:23:31]

directhex|work:

clop, what kind of receiver are you using?

[15:23:41]

clop:

i have a pvr-350 so the i2c module

[15:24:06]

directhex|work:

you've got a suitable lirc.d.conf file?

[15:24:12]

directhex|work:

ignore the first dot

[15:24:23]

clop:

i think so, it's a reinstall so i copied the old config files i had working before

[15:24:58]

pat_:

Wad: it isn't as if I go to many sporting fixtures

[15:25:10]

pat_:

and with that, bed... have a good one.

[15:26:24]

fryfrog:

did you load the right modules? does dmesg show them being detected and all that jazz?

[15:26:44]

directhex|work:

lirc is fun for all the family

[15:27:33]

clop:

lsmod | grep i2c shows lirc_i2c, lirc_dev, and some other stuff; dmesg says lirc_dev registered at major 61, lirc_i2c chip found @ 0x18 (hauppauge ir), lirc_dev sample rate 10, ...

[15:28:57]

clop:

hrmn

[15:29:05]

clop:

when i run lircd -n in one window and irw in another, it connects

[15:29:14]

clop:

ooh and it even gets buttons

[15:29:19]

clop:

must be something funky with the startup scripts

[15:30:18]

monotonous:

hi – Is there a way to clear the EPG memory to check a new grabbeR?

[15:32:03]

juski:

GhostFreeman|ssh: here

[15:33:06]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

hey juski. got any suggestions for the background?

[15:33:36]

juski:

white for the text body & maybe a light blue for the left navbar

[15:35:02]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

noted

[15:35:13]

juski:

I was tempted not to go for a left navbar but that wasn't an option apparently

[15:35:36]

directhex|work:

am i the only one who thinks navbars belong on the right?

[15:35:48]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

right, the wiki. what about the white page bg?

[15:35:49]

juski:

directhex|work: you left handed by any chance?

[15:36:10]

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[15:36:28]

directhex|work:

juski, no. but usually one glances at the top left first, so that's where the most important info should go

[15:36:39]

directhex|work:

juski, IMHO anyway

[15:36:48]

juski:

sounds logical

[15:36:50]

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[15:36:55]

clop:

oh i think i've had this problem before, the script sets the device to /dev/lirc/0 instead of /dev/lirc0 or something

[15:37:05]

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[15:37:36]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I usually put anything navigation related on the left or top left since at one point or another the user's going to look right there

[15:37:36]

anykey_:

someone knows a way to get the modeline that is used by the nvidia binary driver?

[15:38:01]

Wad is now known as Wad__

[15:38:16]

jams:

so is this "new website" moving to a cms system or just straight code?

[15:38:18]

clop:

oookay, time for the great reboot; wish me luck!

[15:38:23]

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[15:38:47]

directhex|work:

juski, http://osc.ox.ac.uk/ is the last thing i did, where i was pretty adamant about navigation on the right. i think it looks good that way round

[15:38:50]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I'd like to know the same thing since I haven't themed for a CMS in decades

[15:38:58]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

or what feels like

[15:39:00]

antiPosix:

any way I can get mythtv to execute this: mplayer http://wmc1.liquidcompass.cc/WBTZ

[15:39:10]

antiPosix:

it would be a neat trick

[15:39:19]

directhex|work:

antiPosix, multiple ways

[15:41:00]

juski:

jams: no idea. Whichever way it goes, it still needs a new layout though

[15:41:27]

directhex|work:

antiPosix, a windows media format for shortcutting to other files. but mplayer recognises it & should play the entries, which would give you a local file to play the remote stream

[15:42:05]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

directhex|work, your url is broken (maybe its just me)

[15:42:08]

jams:

juski- sure just wondering. Depending on th CMS certain layouts are eaiser then others

[15:42:21]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

so what CMS are we using? has xris said any specifics?

[15:42:46]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

besides postnuke

[15:42:58]

fysa:

antiPosix, I made a format called .strm and added it to mythvideo with the command:

[15:43:06]

fysa:

mplayer `cat %s`

[15:43:40]

fysa:

and the file "Cricket World Cup.strm" contains the link..

[15:43:41]

fysa:

and done.

[15:43:53]

jams:

GhostFreeman|ssh- no idea, I was simply asking a question.

[15:45:06]

directhex|work:

fysa, nice hack!

[15:46:10]

antiPosix:

fysa: interesting indeed

[15:46:30]

fysa:

best part is, it's compatible with the big stream packs that were floating around for XBMC a while back. ;)

[15:49:14]

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[15:53:18]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

juski, I used a light blue (#28A1B8) on the border-bottom elements on leftnav, but on this end it looks like it blends in too easily with the images

[15:56:20]

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[15:59:16]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

want me to upload?

[15:59:30]

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[16:00:02]

juski:

it's ok

[16:00:22]

juski:

I think an executive decision needs to be taken about the direction, and soon :)

[16:00:42]

juski:

make something & if the powers that be like it, yay!

[16:00:44]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

[#/g/]

[16:01:05]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

disregard that, I am not too fond of putty's cut and paste

[16:01:22]

jams:

heh

[16:01:46]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

anyways I agree. xris has been rather quiet

[16:01:55]

jams:

GhostFreeman|ssh- I agree with you about c/p with putty

[16:02:45]

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[16:03:50]

juski:

I know from my own experiences is that what you don't want to happen is for you to go off & design a whole load, spend a lot of time & effort, then come back to find folks don't like it

[16:04:00]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I like the colors so far, all I think it needs is something for the background, some icons for news, and then we can probably break it down for CMS

[16:05:04]

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[16:05:44]

juski:

pardon me for saying this but I think it's still gonna lack the WOW! factor some apple-ish sites have IMHO. I even thought that about my own mockup

[16:05:58]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I can go out, spend a week and make a real nice product-oriented site for myth but given the way things are laid out as they are (on both xris's proto and the current site) I just went this route

[16:06:06]

juski:

I'd love it to have more pizazz somehow. where I got hung up was that I oculdn't make my mind up how

[16:06:36]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

yeah, I'd like to do that too but I don't know where to start

[16:06:42]

juski:

the whole object is to come out with a new layout that works better, IIRC

[16:06:53]

juski:

if that involves ripping stuff out, so be it

[16:07:02]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

aye. and hope that users can play keep up

[16:07:10]

juski:

and I think removing the downloads section of the site would be a good first step

[16:07:28]

juski:

the speed mythtv moves at.. folks downloading 0.20 sources is a joke IMHO

[16:07:37]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

oh yeah that's right, I haven't worked on any other pages besides the front

[16:08:38]

juski:

I have no idea if subversion can offer anything to alleviate that some, without people needing to use a subversion client

[16:09:03]

juski:

I know it's a small penalty to need to svn client but folks do like their downloads

[16:09:44]

Dagmar:

Well, some distros like a fixed release point, even if they do apply dozens of patches.

[16:09:57]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

Trac addresses this with http downloads, right?

[16:10:06]

Dagmar:

Probably more useful would be to leave 0.20 there, and add weekly *snapshots* of 0.20-fixes as the "recommended" thing

[16:10:38]

juski:

yeah but maybe make it known that there could very well be bugs in there that are long since fixed

[16:10:55]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

is there a convention for download pages on F/OSS app websites?

[16:11:07]

Dagmar:

NOpe

[16:11:12]

juski:

no, but I'd say to take sourceforge as a bad example ;)

[16:11:17]

Dagmar:

hyeh]

[16:11:30]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

agreed

[16:11:36]

Dagmar:

Yeah, there's is a very over-complicated way of going about it

[16:11:51]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

what i'm thinking is one div for recent binaries, another for snapshots, another for source?

[16:12:16]

mtron_x86:

hi guys! anyone successfully used the weather plugin in 0.20-fixes?

[16:12:28]

juski:

I wouldn't change anything without discussing it with the bosses first

[16:12:33]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

or something like Django has on their site even http://www.djangoproject.com/download/

[16:12:34]

juski:

mtron_x86: it's broken at the moment

[16:12:45]

Dagmar:

Check the mailing list and you'll find all the gory details

[16:12:53]

mtron_x86:

ah, ok. will do.

[16:13:01]

juski:

mtron_x86: the webpages mythweather scrapes the details from have changed their layout

[16:13:40]

Dagmar:

It would be easier if the places like wunderground.com would stop lobbying Congress to protect their own interests

[16:13:50]

Dagmar:

In *theory* the NOAA data is quite free

[16:14:09]

Dagmar:

However, no one can really get at it because they have very little money to run a site to give it to people

[16:14:18]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

but needs to be scalped

[16:14:45]

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[16:14:49]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

wunderground is easy to scalp, but that violates their terms

[16:14:56]

juski:

maybe put some ad-clicking stuff into the code to placate them ;)

[16:14:59]

Dagmar:

...and every time that NOAA asks for more money to maybe make this taxpayer funded data available to the taxpayers, those asshats lobby against it because it would mean people wouldn't need the "professional" weather websites

[16:15:10]

juski:

then they still get paid but are none-the-wiser :)

[16:15:25]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

anyways, Dagmar where on the mailing list does it talk about this kind of contextual stuff

[16:15:37]

Dagmar:

It doesn't as far as I know

[16:15:44]

Dagmar:

But I am NOT your mailing list search enging

[16:15:53]

Dagmar:

It might have been discussed in there

[16:16:15]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I looked and it dosen't

[16:16:21]

Dagmar:

I just know about this stuff because I've been mulling over why the hell we don't all have forecast info on our desktops for a bit over a decade now

[16:17:07]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I think tonight i'll make a large post to xris about all these comments and we can work on usability

[16:17:09]

Dagmar:

NOAA METAR information follows a bit of a format, but it's still mainly meant to be human-readable, so you'd have to have one helluva perl script to parse it into neat chunks suitable for converting to the weather icons everyone loves

[16:17:30]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

unless you all want to make your own entries

[16:17:32]

Dagmar:

NOAA METAR is what the gnome panel applet for weather pulls

[16:17:54]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

Dagmar: If it'll piss you off any more, wunderground will sell you XML data on weather for a city

[16:18:01]

Dagmar:

Oh I know they will

[16:18:13]

Dagmar:

Frankly, I think doing shit like that should be illegal

[16:18:28]

Dagmar:

THey might as well be scalping tax return forms

[16:20:02]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

agreed

[16:22:21]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

well, i'm pretty happy with this layout, so i'm going to clean up the CSS and make a further prototype for usability

[16:22:57]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

anything you guys would like to add

[16:27:17]

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[16:28:09]

Dagmar:

Never let your girlfried know that your mythbox can record news programs

[16:28:22]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

besides the obvious

[16:28:40]

Dagmar:

OTherwise she'll and wake you up to have you set the thing to record the 10 o'clock news because some reporters talked to her

[16:30:16]

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[16:38:23]

gbee:

ok, who's the guy asking about switching the internal player with vlc?

[16:43:15]

gbee:

no-one brave enough to own up to that stupid question?

[16:47:07]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

hey don't look at me, i've never even used the thing

[16:47:11]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

myth that is

[16:47:11]

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[16:53:09]

** gbee frowns **

[16:55:57]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

wow...that is a dumb thing to say

[16:56:06]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

who's going to be first to tear him a new

[16:56:09]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

new one*

[16:58:08]

gbee:

maybe I'll be nice instead, although it goes against my instinct

[17:00:22]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

i wouldn't be nice. that is a dumb thing to say

[17:00:36]

juski:

someone honestly asked that?!

[17:01:00]

gbee:

aye

[17:01:35]

gbee:

sure, you can just rip out the guts of mythtv and replace it with vlc

[17:01:38]

gbee:

*sigh*

[17:02:08]

anykey_:

juski: FIY, the celeron-m can *nearly* play back 720p, if there are a lot of fast moves etc it is at >90% cpu, and sometimes there is stutter, so no need to worry about your athlon ;-)

[17:03:21]

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[17:03:33]

** Kazan wonders if anyone is alive in the dev channel **

[17:03:40]

Kazan:

asked a question this morning and never got a response

[17:03:44]

Kazan:

(was a dev question)

[17:03:57]

juski:

try here

[17:04:13]

Kazan:

it's related to ticket 3031

[17:04:18]

Kazan:

http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3031

[17:04:20]

juski:

maybe it was too dumb :-P

[17:04:22]

Kazan:

i think i found a possible cause in the code

[17:04:47]

gbee:

or maybe, just a guess, no-one who deals with the dvb code was in the channel

[17:05:04]

Kazan:

possible

[17:05:17]

juski:

Kazan: fixed it? just attach a patch to the ticket :)

[17:05:32]

gbee:

no, it was actually the case – just too sarcastic for my own good

[17:05:42]

Kazan:

juski: i think it's a possible fix

[17:05:45]

Kazan:

i haven't been able to test it myself

[17:06:00]

Kazan:

won't be able to do that for about six or so hours... assuming in six hours i have no recording schedules active

[17:06:01]

juski:

Kazan: actions speak louder than words in my experience ;)

[17:06:03]

** Kazan checks his upcoming **

[17:07:20]

tanq:

on my mythfrontend i keep getting the error of "is the mythbackend running. "

[17:07:35]

gbee:

they probably wouldn't have been of any help either, I believe only Daniel has been working on this issue and he knows the code best, having written most of it

[17:08:03]

tanq:

i'm runnning the backend and frontend on the same box. and using localhost.. I have also verified the backend is running.

[17:08:23]

juski:

mysql up?

[17:08:27]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

juski, I got a prototype for the download page finished, let me upload it real quick

[17:08:35]

tanq:

yep

[17:08:43]

** juski is going on the hoy tonight :) **

[17:08:49]

Kazan:

on the hoy?

[17:09:06]

Kazan:

nooooo!

[17:09:12]

Kazan:

my own fire are playong in HDnet

[17:09:14]

gbee:

tanq: do you always get the error, or does it happen periodically?

[17:09:16]

Kazan:

and i down get HDnet :(

[17:09:30]

Kazan:

s/down/dont

[17:09:31]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I get it but I dont have anything with 1080

[17:09:33]

tanq:

gbee: always so far.. this is a new install too

[17:09:41]

gbee:

what does putting http://localhost:6544/ get you?

[17:09:49]

gbee:

in a browser that is

[17:10:14]

tanq:

unable to connect

[17:11:07]

gbee:

ok, either the backend isn't running or it's failing to bind to the correct ports

[17:11:24]

gbee:

start mythbackend from a console and look at the output

[17:11:39]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

juski: http://loliserv.org/~ghostfreeman/mythtvmock/download.htm

[17:13:43]

juski:

nice

[17:13:59]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

I gotta post on the ml I've cleaned up the links

[17:15:41]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

Presumably official releases will be changed to a version number and release date

[17:15:44]

juski:

right I gotta go shower, shave etc.. have fun y'all

[17:16:01]

GhostFreeman|ssh:

yeah i'm going to move rooms..be back in here in a min, see ya later juski

[17:16:07]

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[17:19:03]

Kazan:

mythtfilldatabase --update-all erases all your current listings and redownloads, right?

[17:19:37]

fryfrog:

in theory!

[17:19:50]

fryfrog:

though, i think it erases the day its working on, moves to the next, etc etc

[17:20:29]

Kazan:

erg --refresh-all :P

[17:20:53]

Kazan:

my encoder numbers have changed.. and scheduler had a recording coming down on an encoder that couldn't possibly record that channel :P

[17:24:28]

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[17:28:36]

cheeseboy:

i want to try mythdora but my wireless hasnt workout of the box on any distro yet so what would i need for Broadcom Corporation BCM4318 [AirForce One 54g] 802.11g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 02)

[17:28:41]

cheeseboy:

?

[17:29:15]

gbee:

ndiswrapper

[17:29:47]

cheeseboy:

ndiswrapper didnt work

[17:30:04]

cheeseboy:

ive used some bcm43xx-fwcutter thing

[17:30:07]

gbee:

I've got the same chipset, ndiswrapper works here

[17:31:49]

gbee:

bcmwl5 driver installed, hardware present

[17:32:25]

gbee:

using bcmwl5.inf

[17:32:49]

cheeseboy:

i tried that always said invalid access point

[17:32:54]

cheeseboy:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1071920&mode=linear

[17:32:56]

gbee:

is anyone here affected by the mythmusic segfault when switching between ogg and mp3 files?

[17:35:25]

gbee:

cheeseboy: did the fwcutter work? i.e. produce a bunch of files called bcm43xx_*

[17:35:53]

cheeseboy:

yes

[17:37:33]

cheeseboy:

gbee i followed these instructions http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1071920&mode=linear

[17:38:49]

cheeseboy:

can i do the same thing just install bcm43xx-fwcutter from source or somtin?

[17:39:55]

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[17:41:47]

tanq:

ok so in mythtv-setup if I just use defaults of 127.0.0.1 or localhost i should be fine if I do the same thing on the frontend, right?

[17:43:25]

j-rod:

bcm43xx is teh suq

[17:43:49]

fryfrog:

uh

[17:43:54]

j-rod:

improved w/the mac80211 stack out of the wireless-dev git tree, but still sucky

[17:43:58]

tanq:

thats what i see when i run the backend

[17:44:00]

fryfrog:

tanq: assuming you *NEVER* want to run on anything but 1 system

[17:44:08]

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[17:44:36]

tanq:

yeah just one so far.. i've set this up before, which is why i'm a bit stumped on this..

[17:47:10]

baxter_kylie:

Does anyone know if it's possible to force mythweb to use a non-local apache server/share?

[17:47:29]

fryfrog:

huh?

[17:47:52]

fryfrog:

baxter_kylie: just throw the mythweb dir onto what ever web server you want and make sure it has access to the sql db and the myth backend

[17:47:57]

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[17:48:16]

baxter_kylie:

fryfrog: Which directory is this?

[17:48:48]

fryfrog:

i dunno, i haven't magically figured out what distro you use, how you got mythv, etc

[17:49:02]

fryfrog:

for me it is a dir named "mythweb" and inside it is all the php stuff

[17:49:08]

fryfrog:

i stick that in my htdocs dir

[17:51:17]

baxter_kylie:

fryfrog: Cute. ;-) Okay. Yeah. I have a mixed environ (debian webserver / gentoo mythbox) and want mythweb erunning on the webserver.

[17:52:26]

fryfrog:

k, shouldn't be hard

[17:52:50]

fryfrog:

you probably want to use the "mythweb" from gentoo

[17:53:04]

fryfrog:

you could emerge fetch it, or perhaps install it and then just copy the needed files

[17:53:20]

fryfrog:

(in case gentoo has a slightly diff from "offical" myth stuff

[17:53:41]

fryfrog:

you should find an htdocs in gentoo's /usr/share/webapps/mythweb/<someversion>

[17:53:59]

fryfrog:

just plunk that down on your debian web server where ever you want, then edit i *think* the .htaccess

[17:54:11]

fryfrog:

and point the (obvious) variables to the right places

[17:54:46]

baxter_kylie:

Right. And then a nightly rsync to 'update' the webserver to whatever version is on the gentoo box?

[17:57:59]

fryfrog:

i woudln't bother

[17:58:11]

fryfrog:

i'd just wait until you see an update to the mythweb package

[17:58:33]

fryfrog:

it'll be easy to spot when you need an upgrade, the "protocol" will change and mythweb will tell you

[18:07:40]

baxter_kylie:

You know, I didn't realize it but with the vhosts use flag on I can use webapp-config to define my share and server remotely. I think that's *exactly* what I was looking for. Thanks.

[18:08:22]

fryfrog:

hey, neat idea

[18:10:03]

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[18:27:46]

Cyberai:

anybody in the mood for a lirc mystery? Every time I try to start lircd, I get the message "could not open /dev/lirc: no such device" in my /var/log/messages. But /dev/lirc is there. WTF?

[18:28:11]

fryfrog:

permissions?

[18:28:43]

Cyberai:

nope, tried that

[18:28:50]

Kazan:

anyone able to get the Kworld ATSC 110's IR receiver working?

[18:38:47]

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[18:44:23]

BlueCamel:

what's 'nope tried that' mean re /dev/lirc?

[18:44:26]

BlueCamel:

:)

[18:44:54]

BlueCamel:

is /dev/lirc a symlink to another place?

[18:45:34]

Kazan:

in the .21 working notes it mentions SAP support for ivtv cards with recent drivers.... is there a button to switch audio sources during livetv/list audio sources

[18:50:08]

gbee:

anyone here affected by the mythmusic segfault when switching between ogg and mp3 files? (Yes I know how annoying it is to see the same question repeated every X minutes)

[18:50:21]

kslater:

maybe

[18:50:36]

kslater:

I crash myth playing back music once in a while

[18:50:51]

kslater:

I have mostly mp3, but some ogg – that could be the reason I suppose?

[18:51:18]

gbee:

kslater: the cause has to do with the switching of decoders, so yes

[18:51:48]

kslater:

I'm converting everything to mp3 b/c the kids want to be able to use their music on their portable players.

[18:51:49]

gbee:

I've got a patch, which may fix it (or I could just be mad)

[18:52:09]

Kazan:

kslater: they don't have .ogg capable portables? for shame! :P

[18:52:26]

kslater:

it is a shame, but it's what it is for now.

[18:52:39]

kslater:

would be nice to have ogg capable players

[18:52:46]

gbee:

kslater: that's the reason I don't have any ogg and one of the reasons why debugging this problem hasn't been so easy

[18:52:54]

Kazan:

it would be nicer to have cable companies that were nice and cooperative

[18:53:21]

** Kazan is bitter.. just got an HDTV and he only has five ATSC channels he can get ... two of them don't even broadcast hd **

[18:53:56]

gbee:

http://www.pastebin.ca/450286

[18:54:16]

gbee:

if the patch fixes it for anyone, just let me know

[18:54:20]

Kazan:

EIT data is only fetched from ATSC channels when you watch them right?

[18:54:30]

Kazan:

so i have to tune to all my ATSC channels atleast once in a while?

[18:54:43]

gbee:

Kazan: no, there is an active scanner which runs when no recordings are taking place

[18:54:53]

Kazan:

gbee: i've never seen it trigger

[18:56:05]

Kazan:

`<mythbackend.log grep -i EIT` only returns a bunch of EITHelper: localtime offset -5:00:00

[18:57:33]

suNit1sg:

what is a good 5.1 card that will work under linux

[18:57:44]

Kazan:

turtle beach cards

[18:57:54]

gbee:

Kazan: I'm not the best person to help debug that, a) I can think of a reason why it wouldn't be running b) I'm not in ATSC land

[19:00:16]

gbee:

here's a -users question – why would oggs be so quiet compared to mp3s in mythmusic?

[19:01:43]

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[19:01:45]

gbee:

hmm, nevermind it's the samples I downloaded and not ogg in general

[19:01:48]

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[19:02:08]

H0rb0rt:

Dagmar: hey

[19:05:11]

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[19:11:24]

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[19:16:48]

AndyCap:

Hmm, is there any good way to merge two recorded programs (RTJPG) (they're consecutive but the broadcast schedule slipped so one spills far over into the other?

[19:18:51]

fryfrog:

i wonder what'd happen if you just... joined the two fiels?

[19:19:18]

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[19:19:20]

AndyCap:

dunno if nuv files like that

[19:19:54]

fryfrog:

yeah, i guess i'd suspect not

[19:20:04]

fryfrog:

usually when that happens to me, i jsut watch the two shows in question then delete them

[19:20:08]

fryfrog:

sorry :(

[19:20:09]

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[19:20:41]

AndyCap:

Hehe, I'd like to archive this one, and I already missed the first run, so no rerun to do it over

[19:21:28]

fryfrog:

suck :(

[19:21:48]

fryfrog:

of course, i can't recommend downloading it because that would be both morally wrong and illegal

[19:22:18]

fryfrog:

you could try complaining to your tv channel about keeping things on time

[19:22:22]

fryfrog:

at the very least

[19:22:40]

AndyCap:

not to mention close to impossible to find. except in other weird laguages.

[19:23:06]

fryfrog:

exactly! (i have no idea what you are talking about)

[19:23:12]

AndyCap:

:P

[19:23:27]

fryfrog:

what show is it, out of curiosity?

[19:24:28]

AndyCap:

documentary called La vraie vie mondes virtueles

[19:24:51]

fryfrog:

KRIKEY!

[19:24:53]

fryfrog:

wtf is that?

[19:25:37]

AndyCap:

something something life in virtual worlds.

[19:26:09]

AndyCap:

I don't really speak french. but this is dubbed.

[19:28:39]

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[19:29:13]

gbee:

The true life of virtual worlds

[19:29:28]

gbee:

well that's what it literally translates as

[19:58:11]

zdzisekg:

anyone here that could have a look at a patch before I submit a ticket? It's a small patch to allow the "System Status" screen to draw background

[19:59:14]

gbee:

pastebin it, then everyone can have a look

[19:59:34]

AndyCap:

isn't there a devel channel as well?

[20:00:18]

Anduin:

There is, will likely get more attention here though.

[20:01:25]

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[20:01:35]

gbee:

most devs are in here anyway

[20:02:43]

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[20:04:13]

fysa:

sd

[20:04:30]

zdzisekg:

gbee, http://www.pastebin.ca/450367

[20:05:20]

zdzisekg:

as I said before, I'm no programmer and don't want devs wasting time on bad patches.

[20:05:25]

zdzisekg:

gbee, thanx

[20:10:00]

Anduin:

zdzisekg: it seems identical to the other places

[20:11:32]

gbee:

zdzisekg: seems fine, just a minor point – the coding standards suggest member variables be prefixed with m_

[20:11:41]

gbee:

the patch uses my

[20:11:53]

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[20:12:53]

zdzisekg:

Anduin, gbee, in the end it ended up being identical to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3068

[20:13:11]

gbee:

I know plenty of other areas use my or don't even bother, so it's not a huge issue – would just be nice to get some consistency

[20:14:34]

Anduin:

zdzisekg: Yeah I recognized it, you should use m_ I only update to the coding standard when I'm changing something, this is new so listen to gbee.

[20:27:01]

zdzisekg:

gbee,Anduin, you mean something like this? http://www.pastebin.ca/450390

[20:28:32]

Anduin:

zdzisekg: yes

[20:28:38]

gbee:

lower case the B of Background and that's fine

[20:29:58]

zdzisekg:

ok, thanx guys. I'll submit it to trck

[20:30:17]

gbee:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Coding_Standards

[20:31:44]

Anduin:

Whoever last changed that coding standard page was in a java sort of mind

[20:32:26]

zdzisekg:

gbee, thanx. I'll have to convert the tabs to spaces then too.

[20:34:33]

gbee:

Anduin: ?

[20:35:00]

Dagmar:

You changed the wrong thing if you didn't wind up withsmaller files

[20:35:01]

Anduin:

gbee: I edited it, it had 'public class AudioOutput'

[20:35:16]

gbee:

Anduin: ahh, missed that

[20:35:42]

Dagmar:

The only thing that can do size-per-hour encoding would be two-pass XviD/DivX, so you're out of luck trying to specify it that way

[20:35:50]

nomin:

Dagmar: when I change the bitrate the size of the files change but it's not by much.

[20:36:00]

Dagmar:

You'll have to handle that with transcoding post-recording

[20:36:45]

Anduin:

You would need half that minimum to hit your goal size

[20:40:18]

nomin:

also, there are many compressed videos available on the internet which usually have a 2 hour video that is 700 MB and the quality is WAY better than the quality I get with mythtv. However, the mythtv videos will be twice the size and half the quality. Is it possible to record high quality vids with mythtv and turn them into files that are about 350 MB per hour?

[20:40:54]

Anduin:

nomin: transcode, mpeg4

[20:43:02]

nomin:

Anduin: can it be done from within mythtv? I've already removed commercials but the file was only shrunk by the amount of time cut from the file.

[20:43:34]

Kazan:

is there a way to confirm that XvMC is being used?

[20:43:54]

nomin:

Anduin and Dagmar: what should I look up to be able to record high quality then compress it into a much smaller file without notice much of a quality difference?

[20:44:54]

Anduin:

nomin: There are a few ways, one of which is available withing MythTV (look at the recording profiles, Transcoders)

[20:44:55]

Dagmar:

You look into the transcoder group sttings

[20:44:59]

Dagmar:

Note: O NOT RENAMED THEM

[20:45:04]

Dagmar:

er DO NOT rename them

[20:45:12]

Dagmar:

If you rename them, they will break

[20:45:29]

nomin:

I've used ffmpeg to turn .nuv into mp4 and it cuts the file size in half without any quality difference. However, the audio streams strays from the video stream as the video progresses.

[20:45:34]

Kazan:

hmm

[20:45:34]

Dagmar:

Just change the medium quality one to the settings you want

[20:45:52]

Kazan:

i seem to be getting frame drops.. but my cpu utuilization for 1080i stays under 60%

[20:45:56]

Dagmar:

The high quality one you should probably keep as "lossless"

[20:46:09]

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[20:46:09]

Dagmar:

It's handy for just removing commercials without reencoding (and is blazing fast)

[20:47:25]

** Kazan wonders how to get the EIT scanner working **

[20:47:35]

Dagmar:

I was going to do a patch to fix it so you can't rename them as a quick fix, but I couldn't figure out what to change. :/

[20:48:09]

hads:

Dagmar: Is there a ticket relating to the issue?

[20:48:16]

Dagmar:

Nope

[20:48:20]

Dagmar:

At least not that I'm aware of

[20:48:31]

hads:

Bummer, I wanted to read more.

[20:48:31]

Dagmar:

I put in a ticket on that renaming them breaks tho

[20:48:35]

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[20:48:47]

gbee:

"Blaylock, John is out of the office." < Quick, let's run round their and nick his paperclips

[20:48:52]

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[20:48:55]

hads:

heh

[20:49:01]

Dagmar:

Basically it boils down to the fact that when the transcoder group is invoked, it never looks up what they've been named *to* and it invokes them by the _name_

[20:49:25]

gbee:

s/their/there/

[20:49:27]

hads:

Ug. Is it in lots of places?

[20:49:36]

Dagmar:

...so if it goes looking for "High QUality" and it doesn't exist... god only knows what will happen, but it does seem to fallback to lossless, which is the only reason I can still cut commercials

[20:49:56]

Dagmar:

It's hard-wired in several places, and basically, poorly designed throughout

[20:50:12]

Dagmar:

If you look at the db you'll see there's like 29 entries in that table

[20:50:22]

Dagmar:

Each *source* has it's own group

[20:50:46]

nomin:

Dagmar: I wouldn't mind just browsing to the directory that the videos are stored in an compressing them with another program. mplayer can play .nuv files now. that's how I can see what the video is.

[20:50:54]

Dagmar:

...rather than expecting mythtranscode should be able to figure out what a file is, someone just based it on the item number from the list

[20:50:56]

Kazan:

guys?

[20:51:06]

Anduin:

nomin: nuvexport

[20:51:13]

hads:

Hmm, not so cool.

[20:51:35]

Dagmar:

yeah, that's why I basically threw one last comment on the ticket saying "this is way broken"

[20:51:50]

nomin:

Anduin: I'm only a linux novice and usually only install a package made for my distro.

[20:51:55]

Dagmar:

very painted into a corner there

[20:52:04]

Dagmar:

nuvexport is in perl

[20:52:13]

Dagmar:

It doesn't matter what your disto is

[20:52:23]

Dagmar:

...but it does expect particular versions of transcode and ffmpeg

[20:52:33]

Dagmar:

Namely, their CVS head

[20:52:44]

Dagmar:

...because those crazy buggers keep changing their apis

[20:52:48]

Kazan:

how do i check to make sure XvMC is being used?

[20:52:53]

nomin:

I've noticed that I can't convert some .nuv's with ffmpeg

[20:53:08]

Dagmar:

It's all the dead kittens clogging it up

[20:54:20]

Kazan:

PS: anyone with a DVB/ATSC recorder suffering from the PMT bug.. a patch that solves it has been posted

[20:54:43]

nomin:

all I need mythtv for is to record a video then remove the commercials. It's not a big deal for me to compress them with something else.

[20:55:51]

Dagmar:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s188/evild . . . t=1177102519

[20:56:12]

nomin:

the only problem I'm having now is that the files are just too big.

[20:56:52]

nomin:

and the quality I get for the file size is rediculous.

[20:57:05]

Kritter_:

you using nuvexport?

[20:57:10]

Kritter_ is now known as Kritter

[20:57:41]

nomin:

Kritter: no. I guess I should try it out. I don't use the command line too often.

[20:57:45]

** Kazan sighs... wish he could be certain XVMC was being used **

[20:58:34]

Kritter:

there is a long document on it in the wiki

[20:58:35]

Dagmar:

nomin: You had plenty of warning that nuv wasn't going to be very space-efficient

[20:59:01]

nomin:

I guess nuvexport is what I'm looking for. Will learn how to use it.

[20:59:21]

Kritter:

not that reading said document has given me the information I require to get DVD files out of the system when mytharchive is busted.

[20:59:24]

opello:

Dagmar: nice image :)

[20:59:52]

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[20:59:58]

Dagmar:

opello: danke

[21:00:02]

Kritter:

because to get nuvexport to give me dvd files, it calles ffmpeg, which is the same thing that fails with mytharchive

[21:00:14]

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[21:00:15]

Dagmar:

mythtranscode is perfectly capable of transcoding files to a "better" format after a recording is complete

[21:00:25]

Kritter:

but not DVD

[21:00:35]

Dagmar:

If you know what settings to use it is

[21:00:37]

Kritter:

as that's disabled.

[21:00:49]

Dagmar:

Buy bigger disks

[21:01:06]

Anduin:

Kazan: The frontend log should have information (either the adapter name or an error)

[21:01:11]

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[21:01:35]

Kritter:

got lots of disk space, its the portibility that is useful about dvd.

[21:02:32]

Kazan:

Anduin: for some reason the frontend isn't keeping it's log in the file i told it do

[21:03:30]

Anduin:

Kazan: You are using -l logname?

[21:03:33]

nomin:

buy bigger disks is right. I have 360 GB and I'm almost full.

[21:03:37]

Kazan:

Anduin: yes

[21:03:48]

** Kritter is running 2 500s. **

[21:03:56]

Dagmar:

I'm at 500Gb and trying very hard not to order another 500Gb

[21:04:05]

Kazan:

weird... KDMIDT braodcasts it's ID as channel 20 on ATSC, but DataDirect has it as 56–1 [also ATSC]... does that matter

[21:04:06]

Anduin:

Kazan: You can always run it directly (-l does work, and always has for me)

[21:04:12]

Kazan:

Anduin: that's a good point

[21:04:56]

Dagmar:

Generally if I go and delete a bunch of crap I'm not going to watch it clears it right up

[21:05:11]

Dagmar:

If -l isn't doing what it's supposed to, you changed the wrong thing

[21:05:37]

Anduin:

or are pointing it somewhere you don't have access to

[21:06:22]

Dagmar:

Anduin++

[21:06:23]

nomin:

are there any problems with the audio and video syncing when nuvexport compresses a file?

[21:06:43]

Dagmar:

It's probably the codec screwing it up

[21:06:51]

Anduin:

nomin: There are frequently such problems (and ways to fix them)

[21:07:10]

nomin:

ok

[21:07:16]

Kazan:

one of my ATSC stations is known not to normally broadcast HD (normally does 480i) ... if a show on it is marked HD by DataDirect should i trust that?

[21:07:56]

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[21:09:28]

Dagmar:

Man I am really praying that myth's XML is as "XML" as it should be

[21:09:47]

Dagmar:

I am getting <container> elements where they weren't before and I will be peeved if this does not work

[21:10:12]

Dagmar:

If Mepo-Wide works, I should be safe I guess

[21:10:30]

Dagmar:

He definitely generated parts of that thing with *something*

[21:11:50]

Kazan:

how do i force a COMPLETE flush and reload of all my channels (datadirect) and all their information?

[21:12:33]

Kazan:

wait.. --do-channel-updates + --refresh-all on mythfilldb may do it

[21:14:43]

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[21:18:53]

Dagmar:

You basically go into mythtv-setup and nuke the tuners and channel listings source

[21:18:57]

Dagmar:

...and then re-add them

[21:19:06]

Dagmar:

If that other doesn't work

[21:23:27]

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[21:23:30]

armbar:

hello

[21:25:33]

armbar:

anyone use mythtv svn rev13267 with mvpmc as a mythtv fromtend?

[21:27:20]

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[22:12:18]

mortal5:

anyone here use ivtvctl lately?

[22:20:10]

ghmd:

is there an alternate version/fork/etc. of the mythvideo plugin more suitable for playing things that aren't movies?

[22:21:08]

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[22:26:05]

cesman:

define "things that aren't movies"

[22:26:20]

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[22:26:38]

ghmd:

TV shows, random downloaded videos, etc.

[22:26:40]

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[22:26:54]

cesman:

and mythvideo is simply a frontend for a player

[22:27:48]

cesman:

there is no need for a fork

[22:27:49]

ghmd:

well, its movie/metadata-oriented... is there anything that will fetch metadata for tv episodes, allow viewing by folders in a more convenient way, etc.

[22:28:19]

cesman:

several script exist, search the wiki and archive

[22:29:57]

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[22:33:49]

Kazan:

hey guys... my HDTV is cutting off the very edges of my image.. any way to adjust that?

[22:34:06]

ghmd:

check the scale images?

[22:34:10]

ghmd:

er

[22:34:11]

ghmd:

settings

[22:34:14]

ghmd:

on your tv

[22:34:30]

Kazan:

hmm... didn't find it in menu.. lemme try something

[22:35:26]

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[22:35:37]

Dagmar:

Okay. Screw making this thing spit out an entire ui.xml

[22:35:47]

TSCHAK:

yay ok

[22:35:53]

TSCHAK:

the 6200 arrived!

[22:36:01]

TSCHAK:

i'll be right back, going to pick up a firewire cable

[22:36:10]

TSCHAK:

and we'll see how the situation fares with comcast here in boston.

[22:36:30]

Dagmar:

This is going to be entirely too much trouble and I'm not about to ask Myth devs to make a DTD for the xml structures the thing uses

[22:37:16]

Cyberai:

Hey fryfrog, can you tell me again how to force a few bus resets to make my STB go back to node 0?

[22:37:23]

Cyberai:

or can anyone else tell me?

[22:45:03]

fryfrog:

Cyberai: firewire_tester -h

[22:45:22]

fryfrog:

Cyberai: if you aren't using the firewire_tester from svn head, grab that and compile it

[22:45:32]

fryfrog:

the bus reset wasn't part of svn -fixes when i looked

[22:45:50]

Dagmar:

Hmm...

[22:46:14]

Dagmar:

This is weird.

[22:46:22]

Dagmar:

WHere the hell is it parsing the background container

[22:46:24]

Dagmar:

bleh

[22:47:03]

Dagmar:

Nvermind, I got it.

[22:47:22]

Dagmar:

Pauses would not be low signal. Low signal would result in damaged video

[22:47:44]

Dagmar:

If your video recordings are complete, low signal isn't the issue. Lack of being able to play that fast is

[22:47:53]

Dagmar:

1080 is a LOT of data to parse

[22:48:14]

Kazan:

i get damaged video too :P

[22:48:19]

Kazan:

it's livetv btw

[22:48:29]

ghmd:

i sometimes have problems with mythtv keeping up with hdtv

[22:48:29]

Kazan:

sempron 2500+, nvidia 6200 XvMC

[22:48:59]

Dagmar:

OKay, for one thing, not all the 6xxx cards are created equally

[22:49:00]

ghmd:

while mplayer will play videos with comparable bitrates+resolution just fine

[22:49:20]

Dagmar:

*Some* do not even have the overlay elemtent required for XvMC to be doing a damn thing... which is part of the reason they put that back in I guess

[22:49:40]

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[22:49:54]

Dagmar:

If you'

[22:50:03]

Dagmar:

If you're getting broken recordings, you have a signal issue

[22:50:31]

Dagmar:

I couldn't tell you at the moment how to tell if your card has the video overlay support it would need

[22:50:47]

Dagmar:

I figured it out one night, wrote it down, and then lost the damn paper scrap

[22:50:55]

fryfrog:

dpspy?

[22:50:59]

fryfrog:

er, xdpspy?

[22:51:08]

Dagmar:

One thing is for sure, use the latest driver and enable UseEvents

[22:51:10]

fryfrog:

xdpinfo

[22:51:22]

Dagmar:

THis will (if it's working properly) reduce the CPU usage even further with XvMC accel

[22:51:33]

Kazan:

Dagmar: my CPU utilization is <60% while watching HDTV

[22:51:34]

Dagmar:

fryfrog: Yeah, but I don't remember what display element to look for. :/

[22:51:41]

fryfrog:

ah

[22:51:51]

Dagmar:

Kazan: Yes, and my cat's breath smells like cat food.

[22:51:51]

Kritter:

is there a way to give icons to the directories shown when navigating mythvideo?

[22:51:52]

fryfrog:

Kazan: less than 60% and it skips?

[22:51:58]

fryfrog:

what happens if you switch to *not* xvmc?

[22:52:02]

fryfrog:

xvmc sucks for me :)

[22:52:24]

Dagmar:

My boss's is generally below that, and it still went lower when they took out the spinlock and added the UseEvents attribute

[22:52:43]

fryfrog:

what do you mean by that Dagmar ?

[22:53:14]

Dagmar:

I mean that bursts of >100% CPU use which are very short will simply not show up when eyeballing CPU utilization

[22:53:24]

Dagmar:

...so it's fundamentally useless to say "my CPU usage is only blah"

[22:53:42]

ghmd:

it is not

[22:53:45]

Dagmar:

It's not going to be a sane way to decide whether or not a given video stream can be played back without dropping frames

[22:54:46]

Dagmar:

...but he's getting broken recordings, so the odds are rather high the problem is simply that those frames don't exist and/or are damaged to begin with.

[22:57:15]

Kritter:

of course there is, nevermind.

[22:57:16]

Dagmar:

Simple test: use mplayer to spool output to a file, or just /dev/null and _watch if it complains about a damaged stream_

[22:57:39]

Dagmar:

mplayer is useful for sanity checking video streams

[23:00:02]

** TSCHAK is anxiouuuusssss **

[23:00:18]

Kazan:

fryfrog: fryfrog i'll try turning off xvmc later

[23:00:33]

Kazan:

i'm busy with other stuff at the moment

[23:00:55]

Dagmar:

gahhh... wtf is with typebracket

[23:01:02]

Dagmar:

Did those get deprecated at some point?

[23:01:17]

Dagmar:

I can't find any reference to them in the source

[23:02:39]

Dagmar:

I'm trying to figure out why program_info is defined as a container at all

[23:04:15]

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[23:09:23]

Dagmar:

Sweet. Found what I was looking for

[23:10:00]

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[23:12:21]

Dagmar:

Ah crap

[23:12:28]

Dagmar:

I need more coffee for this

[23:13:10]

Dagmar:

@#$@! the man who designed this

[23:14:48]

S2- is now known as S2

[23:16:43]

Dagmar:

Yay I get to start over from the top

[23:17:24]

Dagmar:

program_info being a container, the elements of which it contains _being not a set list_ means I have to do this a whole different way

[23:18:50]

Dagmar:

I guess I'll just tie things to the label assigned an svg object so that if there's an object named "program_guide:misicon" and another object named "program_guide" it'll emit the coordinates for "program_guide:misicon" relative to "program_guide"

[23:23:21]

Dagmar:

I still think INkscape would be the easiest thing to do ui element layout templates with, _but the lower bounds on "easy" is definitely climbing rapidly now_

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cheeseboy:

can someone help me with mythdora?

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