Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Friday, December 8th, 2006, 00:01 UTC

[00:01:29]

nomin-:

the processor? wtf

[00:01:33]

nomin-:

lol

[00:02:20]

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[00:02:37]

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[00:03:56]

nomin-:

ok I fixed it

[00:04:23]

nomin-:

I had a option checked that said if I have a budget bt878 I should check it. I just unchecked it.

[00:04:34]

nomin-:

:)

[00:09:57]

nomin-:

actually, it's not fixed. :/

[00:10:31]

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[00:14:08]

niv_one_three:

hi all

[00:14:43]

niv_one_three:

I just got around to try use mythtv for the first time

[00:15:16]

niv_one_three:

I managed to follow the gentoo wiki , and did get the mythsetup to load

[00:15:36]

niv_one_three:

but I notice that after /etc/init.d/mythtvbackend start

[00:15:50]

niv_one_three:

I get this error in /var/log/messeges

[00:15:52]

niv_one_three:

mythbackend[2841]: segfault at 0000000000000060 rip 00002ba57435fce8 rsp 0000000042803460 error 4

[00:15:59]

niv_one_three:

what is wrong?

[00:18:50]

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[00:25:12]

nomin-:

this is what I should have read earlier: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV_Dapper_Backend

[00:25:22]

nomin-:

for the mysql setup stuff

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[00:49:33]

cornell:

Anybody used mythsvn? Apparently it installed myth under the directory I was in when I ran it.

[00:50:18]

kormoc:

and the problem with that is?

[00:51:26]

cornell:

Well... in the midst, it started mythtv just fine. And it continued, finally stopping and restarting GDM. Now I can't figure out how to start mythtv again, and I'm not sure it should be installed under /home/myusername

[00:53:05]

kormoc:

it would be kinda rude to install elsewhere

[00:53:57]

cornell:

? Shouldn't it be under /usr/bin or someplace other than /home ?

[00:54:25]

cornell:

And the backup process backs up /home... Do I want to back up all the code everytime?

[00:54:39]

kormoc:

that's more up to you to decide

[00:54:55]

kormoc:

cornell, users don't have permissions to install things into /usr/bin usually

[00:55:02]

kormoc:

cornell, so it would be rude to try and fail

[00:55:15]

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[00:55:31]

cornell:

Generally yes, except when the user's running as root, installing software, no?

[00:55:36]

xris:

kormoc: odd that it installed there, though. usually it'd just TRY to install to /usr/local/bin and thenfail

[00:56:01]

AlHaz:

evening. Anybody here with 0.20 in a mixed atsc/ntsc configuration?

[00:56:13]

kormoc:

cornell, well, it's still sorta rude to try without being told so in my opinion.

[00:56:34]

cornell:

So /usr/local/bin is a more appropriate place., xris?

[00:56:46]

kormoc:

xris, meh, lots of packages don't default into /usr/local, largely to allow users to test before merging into the live system

[00:56:59]

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[00:57:03]

kormoc:

cornell, yeah, usually a prefix of /usr/local is traditional for self compiled packages

[00:57:32]

cornell:

kormoc: Who would tell me? The script author doesn't say anything about where to be when it installs. I'm the admin.

[00:57:44]

cornell:

So /usr/local ?

[00:58:06]

kormoc:

yeah

[00:58:47]

cornell:

May I ask where your myth software's installed?

[00:58:52]

xris:

cornell: by default, all non-packages should install under /usr/local/ instead of /usr/

[00:59:02]

cornell:

K

[00:59:24]

xris:

packages install things under /usr/ and then weird stuff like tarballs of firefox should theoretically go somewhere like /opt/

[01:00:42]

cornell:

I'm using knoppmyth... the GUI is fluxbox? On the right-click menu there's a restart entry. How can I see the properties of that entry?

[01:00:53]

AlHaz:

imho /opt is a silly idea. but i don't see it going away, so why fight it.

[01:01:58]

xris:

AlHaz: it's nice for stuff like google earth,e tc.

[01:02:03]

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[01:02:39]

AlHaz:

*shrug* i don't see why we need to cram more directories into the path when they could drop a launch script in /usr/bin and stick the rest in /usr/share and /usr/lib

[01:02:46]

frank___:

is anyone working on making a democracy (the podcast viewer) plugin for mythtv?

[01:03:01]

xris:

AlHaz: well, for one, only the distro/packages should be putting stuff in /usr/

[01:03:01]

cornell:

When I retry this, in /usr/local. Afterward, can I just delete /home/user/mythtv ?

[01:03:20]

xris:

frank___: search the mailing list archives. quick answer is "no, and never"

[01:03:33]

frank___:

xris: why never?

[01:03:36]

AlHaz:

xris: imho, that's an obsolete argument, from the days before manageable packages

[01:03:42]

xris:

just search the mailing list arbuments

[01:03:59]

xris:

AlHaz: and keeps non-package files outside of where package files live. but such is LFS.

[01:04:24]

AlHaz:

like i said, I don't see it going away, so I'm not going to fight it.

[01:04:27]

frank___:

xris: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ here?

[01:04:28]

xris:

frank___: that should have said "archives" not "arbuments"

[01:04:33]

AlHaz:

all kinds of distributions do all sorts of things that drive me batty

[01:04:33]

xris:

frank___: yes

[01:04:46]

AlHaz:

so i picked one with warts i can live with

[01:06:46]

xris:

AlHaz: yeah, pretty much

[01:06:55]

AlHaz:

i have to use caldera at work, so the issues of modern, non-satan-sired distributions are trifling by comparison

[01:07:08]

mchou:

haha!!

[01:07:09]

xris:

lol

[01:07:38]

mchou:

AlHaz: better migrate quick!

[01:07:46]

mchou:

SCO is DOOMED!

[01:07:55]

AlHaz:

oh heck, they haven't updated the distribution in years

[01:08:11]

AlHaz:

early next year we're migrating to debian out of disgust

[01:08:20]

mchou:

bah, why wait

[01:08:35]

mchou:

get you debian betas up!

[01:08:40]

mchou:

your*

[01:08:58]

AlHaz:

'cause we sell vertically integrated apps, and we're trying to crank out a major revision this year

[01:09:17]

AlHaz:

the end user never sees caldera

[01:09:22]

mchou:

AlHaz: what app is that?

[01:09:24]

AlHaz:

they just see the app running on it

[01:09:26]

jams:

AlHaz- version 2.3?

[01:09:47]

AlHaz:

jams: 3.1 iirc

[01:10:01]

jams:

oh didn't know they came out with a 3.x line

[01:10:28]

mchou:

jams: they violate GPL all the time, dont you know? :)

[01:10:28]

jams:

I also had to support caldera for a very similiar reason

[01:10:33]

frank___:

xris: well I still hope someone eventually makes an unofficial plugin. I know democracy wants to make a command line version of the program. All I want is to get diggnation through myth ;)

[01:10:35]

AlHaz:

mchou: we're in the business video communications / interactive distanced learning / digital signage market

[01:11:12]

mchou:

AlHaz: so you guys host videos too?

[01:11:31]

AlHaz:

mchou: nah, that's up to the customer to figure out

[01:11:40]

xris:

frank___: there won't/can't be any official support of such a project from the mythtv community until the devs decide that bittorrent isn't a bad word to the people who might sue us.

[01:11:56]

AlHaz:

mchou: our specialty is the delivery of content via DVB-S – but all we do is feed multicast to a DVB encoder

[01:12:24]

mchou:

AlHaz: ok. makes sense. Deal with Homeland Security too?

[01:12:26]

cornell:

mmm I guess I should've created /usr/local/myth and run in there. Now, under /usr/local there's mythtv, mythplugins and myththemes.

[01:12:40]

AlHaz:

mchou: The answer to that is a solid I Don't Know.

[01:12:49]

mchou:

AlHaz: haha!!

[01:12:50]

AlHaz:

If i knew for sure I'd admit it

[01:13:25]

xris:

cornell: you're still configuring something weirdly

[01:13:36]

AlHaz:

we have a partnership w/ Harris where we provide a chunk of glue-ware for replacing antiquated video archival systems with digital systems

[01:13:44]

AlHaz:

and we know some of the contracts are government / DOD

[01:13:47]

AlHaz:

but we don't know who

[01:13:50]

xris:

it should be /usr/local/bin/* and /usr/local/lib/* and /usr/local/share/mythtv (and all sould live there)

[01:13:52]

mchou:

AlHaz: with a handle like AlHaz you're disqualified :)

[01:14:00]

AlHaz:

hehe

[01:14:09]

cornell:

xris should I stop this before it goes too long. The author doesn't say anything about configuring, just run the script.

[01:14:21]

AlHaz:

i'm actually not arabic. I just used to be a big h.p.lovecraft fan.

[01:14:25]

mchou:

AlHaz: you sure your name isnt Habib? :)

[01:14:48]

AlHaz:

I'm scandanavian actually

[01:14:55]

mchou:

AlHaz: I can See that

[01:15:04]

AlHaz:

but like 4th generation american

[01:15:26]

xris:

cornell: `./configure && make && sudo make install` is pretty common. thought the docs have said that since .18 or so when the configure script came into existence

[01:15:38]

AlHaz:

Anyhow. The Harris product is actually pretty cool, while simultaneously being a wretched abomination.

[01:15:47]

mchou:

AlHaz: the computer dept has a building named Jurgenson but everyone calls it JOrgasm

[01:15:52]

AlHaz:

heh

[01:16:32]

frank___:

how much success do you guys have with the DVD menus mytharchive creates? (myth 0.20) I get highlights which do not cover the text they're supposed to. And once I start an episode, there is no way to get back to the main menu.

[01:16:35]

AlHaz:

Deal is, there are installations all over the world where they use actual mechanical robots to fetch betamax tapes and laser discs and insert them into off-the-shelf studio grade players which have rs422 control capability

[01:16:40]

mchou:

the building is pretty foul with CS types who dont bath

[01:16:54]

AlHaz:

betamax decks are getting scarse, so are laserdisc players

[01:16:54]

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[01:17:33]

AlHaz:

not just military and security use – most of these archives are TV stations and movie studios

[01:17:51]

cornell:

Hey seth|laptop... got mythsvn.sh working, but apparently I'm missing something, it installed in the directory I was in, /home/myusername. I'm retrying it in /usr/local

[01:18:02]

mchou:

POS comcast

[01:18:03]

AlHaz:

Anyway, we have a product that pretends to be a robot and a betamax deck and laserdisc player

[01:18:23]

AlHaz:

which backends on a real robot, which plays video out to an encoder (not ours), which writes out to a SAN

[01:18:23]

seth|laptop:

you can install it in your homefolder, just run it as root

[01:18:28]

mchou:

this new STB hasnt resolved the problem

[01:18:48]

mchou:

I told them their signal was super crappy

[01:18:51]

AlHaz:

and we push it back out over the network as RTSP or just let people watch the analog video

[01:18:52]

cornell:

well... now I can't figure out how to start it. And I'm not sure that's where it belongs.

[01:19:19]

frank___:

AlHaz the National Film Board of Canada has Cine-Robotheques which have a robot fetching discs in an archive and puts it in a player

[01:19:34]

AlHaz:

the idea is that your current apps that use the old control protocols keep working while you convert everything to digital

[01:19:37]

mchou:

frank___: how do you happen to know that?

[01:19:44]

seth|laptop:

start what?

[01:19:50]

frank___:

mchou: there is one in Montreal

[01:19:59]

cornell:

Start mythfrontend

[01:20:10]

mchou:

frank___: and you happen to see the "internals?"

[01:20:11]

AlHaz:

frank___: I admit they're cool – but the maintenance costs are pretty high

[01:20:35]

cornell:

While the script was running, it started mythtv, and continued running, finally stopping and starting GDM.

[01:20:39]

frank___:

mchou: yeah the robot is in a room you get to see through a window

[01:21:14]

AlHaz:

true story, I know a guy who was once contracted to design and build that sort of robot – for computer tapes, but same sort of thing

[01:21:32]

cornell:

I tried /home/cornell/mythtv/mythtvfrontend/mythtvfrontend and it got started and failed with a segmentation fault.

[01:21:37]

AlHaz:

He builds the thing on greased tracks with servo motors that silently zip it around

[01:21:47]

mchou:

AlHaz: there are companies that specialize in that for data archiving

[01:21:57]

mchou:

like StorageTek

[01:22:00]

AlHaz:

some of the mid-level execs came in and saw it, said "it's great. but the boss won't like it."

[01:22:06]

cornell:

(at least I think that's the directory)

[01:22:09]

AlHaz:

"the boss wanted it to be chain driven"

[01:22:21]

AlHaz:

and they were right, the boss didn't like it

[01:22:31]

AlHaz:

he ended up adding a pair of cogs and some bicycle chain just to please the boss

[01:22:37]

mchou:

lol

[01:22:50]

seth|laptop:

it puts it where its supposed to, you just run it like normal, it is a transparent process, i just upgrades your running version

[01:22:59]

mchou:

that must have been a shitload of chain

[01:23:00]

** seth|laptop smacks self in head **

[01:23:16]

AlHaz:

mchou: nah, just a little loop on either side of the robot

[01:23:30]

cornell:

seth|laptop: how can it do that if it's in the wrong directory?

[01:23:45]

mchou:

AlHaz: so the chain was just "for show?"

[01:23:49]

AlHaz:

mchou: ya

[01:24:35]

cornell:

Why you smacking yourself?

[01:24:36]

seth|laptop:

it downloads the svn into where ever you run the script from, then it comiles it just like it would anywhere

[01:24:58]

AlHaz:

Anyway

[01:25:09]

AlHaz:

Anybody here got an ATSC tuner and an IVTV card side-by-side?

[01:25:21]

seth|laptop:

because it explains exactly what it does in the forum post, the indructions say "run the script from /home/user and run it as root

[01:25:24]

AlHaz:

my myth box tries to tune any channel on either card indiscriminately

[01:25:25]

mchou:

AlHaz: sure. happens all the time

[01:25:26]

AlHaz:

it's annoying

[01:25:43]

cornell:

It says that in the forum post?

[01:25:44]

AlHaz:

i hear it's atypical for myth to try to tune stuff on the wrong tuner

[01:25:48]

mchou:

AlHaz: the key is to raise the priority of a certain card

[01:26:10]

AlHaz:

mchou: why does that work?

[01:26:17]

mchou:

AlHaz: in this case it's presumably your atsc card

[01:26:39]

seth|laptop:

yes

[01:26:43]

cornell:

The only instance of "home" is in the guy's URL, and the "The home of KnoppMyth"

[01:26:48]

seth|laptop:

under the very place you download it from

[01:26:50]

mchou:

AlHaz: it works because of the undocumented priorities of cards and channels

[01:27:08]

AlHaz:

ok

[01:27:19]

AlHaz:

anything else i have to do?

[01:27:46]

cornell:

"url=HTTP://Watto.HomeIP.net/mythsvn.sh]MythTV from SVN[/url]

[01:27:46]

cornell:

Usage:

[01:27:46]

cornell:

mythsvn.sh [head|fixes] [pause]"

[01:27:56]

mchou:

AlHaz: depends what you wanna achieve

[01:28:19]

AlHaz:

mchou: well, I'd sorta prefer NTSC channels to always be tuned on the NTSC tuner, and ATSC only on the ATSC channel

[01:28:33]

seth|laptop:

I think you need about 500MB of free space on the partition that you run this on and you must be root.

[01:28:33]

seth|laptop:

If anyone has any enhancements or suggestions for my script please let me know.

[01:28:34]

cornell:

I'm looking at "My compile MythTV from SVN script."

[01:28:35]

mchou:

AlHaz: that's easy

[01:28:41]

seth|laptop:

that is from the post

[01:28:51]

mchou:

AlHaz: two channel line ups

[01:28:53]

AlHaz:

er, ATSC only on the ATSC tuner

[01:29:04]

cornell:

Right... it says you must be root, but doesn't say to be in /home/user

[01:29:06]

AlHaz:

mchou: in the zap2it sense?

[01:29:07]

seth|laptop:

yep, thats the one

[01:29:09]

mchou:

AlHaz: one strictly ATSC, and another NTSC

[01:29:15]

mchou:

AlHaz: yup

[01:29:23]

seth|laptop:

well you can do it wherever you have 500MB of space

[01:29:31]

seth|laptop:

I did it in /usr/src

[01:29:33]

AlHaz:

i wondered if it might be something like that

[01:29:39]

seth|laptop:

I have a 10GB / slice

[01:29:57]

cornell:

But the commands installed in the gui / path / etc. expect it in a certain place.

[01:30:09]

seth|laptop:

but by running 'mythsvn.sh fixes' everything is automatic

[01:30:18]

seth|laptop:

the script knows that

[01:30:59]

cornell:

Apparently not... It doesn't work... or I can't start it. And the script put it in /home/cornell.

[01:32:36]

cornell:

You were in /usr/src when you ran it, and all's well?

[01:32:44]

frank___:

another quick idea. Would it be possible to create a "dumber" interface for people who might be put off by all the features in mythtv. I can't imagine my parents using mythtv as it is right now

[01:33:28]

AlHaz:

hm, zap2it went back to atsc channel numbers instead of uhf channel numbers. I wonder if that messed up my backend . . .

[01:34:21]

cornell:

Should I stop the run under /usr/local ?

[01:34:23]

seth|laptop:

myth wont run?

[01:35:15]

cornell:

Not for me. The "restart" is going to the wrong place, I tried the only frontend command I found under /home/cornell

[01:35:32]

seth|laptop:

run it like normal

[01:35:57]

cornell:

Normal is to right-click on the desktop and click "restart"

[01:36:08]

seth|laptop:

it upgrades the running app, reguardless of where the svn is downloaded/compiled

[01:36:36]

cornell:

Well... the app wasn't actually "running"

[01:36:50]

** seth|laptop passes out **

[01:37:02]

seth|laptop:

open a terminal

[01:37:18]

seth|laptop:

ype in mythfrontend, and watch the output

[01:37:22]

seth|laptop:

type

[01:37:33]

cornell:

The .20 package wouldn't run, which is why I'm trying to compile it. Ok, stand by

[01:38:05]

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[01:38:50]

cornell:

It tried to start, got the blue screen....

[01:39:03]

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[01:39:05]

cornell:

Last line is "Segmentation fault"

[01:39:31]

cornell:

Previous is "SIP: Cannot register; proxy, username or password not set"

[01:39:40]

cornell:

Is there anything in particular I'm looking for?

[01:39:58]

seth|laptop:

ok, remember what I told you, after the compile/install cd to the svn mythplugins directory, cd into mythphone, and as root run make uninstall

[01:40:23]

seth|laptop:

the last thing before he segfault, should sat SIP

[01:40:26]

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[01:40:27]

seth|laptop:

er say

[01:40:42]

seth|laptop:

that means mythphone borked

[01:40:49]

cornell:

svn mythplugins directory.... /home/cornell/mythplugins?

[01:40:52]

AlHaz:

that was annoying. zap2it won't let you make more than one protocol for the same source/zip

[01:41:07]

seth|laptop:

/home/cornell/mythplugins/mythphone

[01:41:17]

seth|laptop:

then as root run 'make uninstall'

[01:41:33]

Mixx`:

hello, I am able to view tv with mplayer, but not with mythtv's frontend. it seems that myth is configured to use the same /dev/video0. any ideas of where to start?

[01:42:23]

seth|laptop:

cornell, as soon as that completes, as your user run mythfrontend

[01:42:51]

seth|laptop:

should fire right up

[01:42:59]

cornell:

My brain is gone.... I'd completely forgotten about mythphone

[01:43:03]

seth|laptop:

i told you this

[01:43:07]

cornell:

I know, seht

[01:43:09]

cornell:

seth

[01:43:33]

** seth|laptop smacks cornell with a generous length of ring bologna **

[01:43:36]

cornell:

I know, I'm just so nuts about this. Heck, right now, I'm just nuts

[01:44:06]

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[01:44:12]

seth|laptop:

but now you're running .20 :-)

[01:44:20]

k-man:

is it possible to run mythtv-frontend using svgalib?

[01:44:35]

cornell:

Looks like...

[01:45:44]

mchou:

lame!

[01:45:48]

cornell:

I've got another install running in /usr/local. I'm going to let that finish, get rid of mythphone in it. See if that works and try to get rid of the one in /home/cornell. Sound like a plan?

[01:45:55]

** seth|laptop passes the dutchie from the left hand side **

[01:46:02]

mchou:

crappy comcrap signal

[01:46:26]

seth|laptop:

yeah, don't interupt it. but when its done rm -rf what it spawned

[01:47:14]

cornell:

I'd rather rm -rf the one in /home/cornell

[01:47:53]

seth|laptop:

i don't know what svn you'll have, wel, your choice :-)

[01:48:08]

seth|laptop:

just free up the unecessary space

[01:48:28]

seth|laptop:

space is like air to mythtv, without it, non-functional

[01:48:42]

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[01:50:07]

cornell:

Well... I've got 300 G left, including a couple of attempts to backup all the recordings. (in case this got trashed). But I couldn't get it copied to another machine, hamered the net and the little woman couldn't get her business taken care of.

[01:50:36]

cornell:

And, as a demonstration of my brain power, I've got a brand new 500G external USB just sitting here

[01:51:04]

** seth|laptop wishes he had 1/2 a terabyte just lying around **

[01:51:45]

seth|laptop:

hey myth gurus, what calls mythcommflag, and how do i hack into it to tell it to nice to 19 instead of 17

[01:51:47]

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[01:52:23]

cornell:

Well, I've got about 1.5 T throughout the LAN, plus the external

[01:52:57]

cornell:

And if I weren't so dang brain dead, I'd be able to make good use of it.

[01:53:53]

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[01:56:29]

cornell:

Thanks again seth|laptop, I owe you, more.

[01:56:32]

cornell:

TTFN

[01:57:03]

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[01:57:12]

seth|laptop:

night

[01:59:16]

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[02:18:17]

sandeen:

does anyone have a nice methodical method for tracking down playback performance problems.... :)

[02:18:27]

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[02:18:48]

sandeen:

I've ruled out the IDE drive/bus/pci latency by playing back a file held entirely in cache...

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[02:19:50]

sandeen:

I am playing back HD content on an SD tv with 1024x768 resolution.... does the nvidia card/driver handle that scaling gracefully or isthis maybe what is clobbering my cpu?

[02:20:06]

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[02:20:47]

chris__:

if I were to have problems withj playback during mythfilldatabase could it possiably be an i/o problem or would it be cpu? filldb has been taking upto 60–70%

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[02:22:32]

chris__:

spuratic pauses/popping and occasionaly dropping video stream... oh yeah and its 2 systems 1. backend/sql server 2. 100 mbit feed to frontend.

[02:27:10]

k-man:

what's a good dvb-t dual tuner pci card to get for myth?

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[02:41:39]

AlHaz:

Alright, I've got my pvr350 on one video source and my atsc tuner on another. I'm guessing it's normal that i have to switch capture cards to get channels on another card.

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[03:04:16]

tcpsyn:

Anyone know where I can find the optimal settings for recording from a pvr-150?

[03:05:02]

tcpsyn:

mythfrontend playback is alright, and mytharchive dvd's are poor.

[03:05:15]

tcpsyn:

I know I can do some tweaking, but I'm not really sure where to start.

[03:06:53]

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[03:13:39]

AlHaz:

tcpsyn: well, myself, i don't have any fargin idea where to configure ivtv stuff in myth, but what i do know is that DVD video is always 720x480. Going with that from the start will save you some conversion steps.

[03:14:16]

tcpsyn:

ah. well, thats a good place to start.

[03:15:14]

AlHaz:

that and DVD video usually floats between 6mbps and 9mbps

[03:15:57]

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[03:22:49]

marxes:

anyone seen any major improvements in performance when they compiled the mythtv, ivtv, etc instead of using a binary?

[03:23:56]

tcpsyn:

AlHaz, thats the bit rate?

[03:25:55]

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[03:26:02]

AlHaz:

yeah

[03:26:09]

tcpsyn:

good to know.

[03:26:10]

tcpsyn:

thanks.

[03:27:05]

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[03:27:36]

noobie0051:

Hello, I would like to ask for advice about setting up a box (hardware, file system, and linux distribution) is this where I should ask the question perhaps there is a forum I should submit to ?

[03:27:37]

AlHaz:

I'm a myth n00b, but i test software that's digital video-related for a living

[03:28:05]

AlHaz:

noobie0051: for myth, sure

[03:28:13]

tcpsyn:

noobie0051, I'm a newbie too, but the people here have been really helpful.

[03:28:39]

noobie0051:

I'm not ready to ask,, I need to find out what cards I have, type of mother board I hope to use

[03:29:10]

AlHaz:

ah

[03:29:11]

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[03:29:15]

noobie0051:

is the mythtv distro the way to go? I was hoping to use ubuntu or red-hat

[03:29:27]

tcpsyn:

thats personal preference.

[03:29:28]

AlHaz:

there's a myth distro?

[03:29:40]

AlHaz:

I used ubuntu edgy eft. it works fine.

[03:29:44]

tcpsyn:

there are myth livecds. Yeah, I think theres a distro too.

[03:29:45]

tcpsyn:

I'm on gentoo

[03:29:55]

Seth_:

marxes, you are always going to see some kind of improvement AFAIK becuase you are building he app specific to your kernel config, however IMHO if you are using a precompiled binary kernel, i don't know how much of one

[03:30:09]

noobie0051:

there is a distro just for mythtv ( i tried it once before, but had problem with my hardware)

[03:30:18]

AlHaz:

I wish i'd used debian/etch. I didn't realize that the debian-multimedia repository has the same flippin myth packages as ubuntu

[03:30:21]

Seth_:

knoppmyth

[03:30:34]

Seth_:

tailored for mythtv, it is what I use

[03:30:35]

AlHaz:

and i only say that because all my other computers are running etch

[03:30:41]

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[03:31:30]

noobie0051:

I've heard the preferred file system is XFC? should the OS be on a different drive?

[03:32:05]

AlHaz:

tcpsyn: anyway, I bet there's a webpage somewhere that explains how to configure an ivtv card to deliver dvd-format mpeg2 right off the air.

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[03:32:21]

tcpsyn:

AlHaz, problem is theres lots, with varied info.

[03:32:31]

AlHaz:

OTOH I don't really know for sure. DVDs have different GOP demands than streaming video

[03:32:35]

AlHaz:

and crap

[03:32:42]

AlHaz:

mpeg2 is nauseatingly complex

[03:32:45]

Seth_:

I have / on 1 partition, along with swap on another for 1 drive, then I have /myth/video on a drive by itself, and /myth/tvon a seperate drive as well

[03:32:55]

AlHaz:

for example, there are two sets of time codes in the video stream

[03:33:06]

AlHaz:

high level and low level time codes

[03:33:22]

AlHaz:

some apps use either, some need high level, some need low level, some need both

[03:33:42]

AlHaz:

and a given stream might not have them at all

[03:34:12]

noobie0051:

thanks guys I'm going to go research my hardware so I can ask better questions

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[03:34:40]

tcpsyn:

jacking up the resolution and bitrate knocked the audio off a bit

[03:34:48]

AlHaz:

tcpsyn: that's odd

[03:35:05]

AlHaz:

how do you mean? sync or quality?

[03:35:26]

tcpsyn:

sync

[03:35:36]

AlHaz:

weird

[03:35:46]

AlHaz:

what rate are you capturing the audio at?

[03:35:56]

AlHaz:

DVD audio is 48khz

[03:36:06]

AlHaz:

usually

[03:36:19]

AlHaz:

ac3/dts = whole other ball game

[03:44:23]

tcpsyn:

whats the difference between an encoder and a transcoder

[03:45:48]

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[03:54:17]

AlHaz:

eh, when you get right down to it, not much. But here what it's referring to is that an encoder encodes from a raw source and a transcoder encodes from some other encoding

[03:54:29]

AlHaz:

though most transcoders have an intermediary raw stage

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[04:02:42]

mchou:

AlHaz: that's a lousy explanation

[04:03:24]

mchou:

an encoder has no decoder; a transcoder decodes and encodes to (another) format

[04:04:04]

AlHaz:

mchou: but most transcoders are just a decoder stapled to an encoder

[04:04:16]

mchou:

AlHaz: so?

[04:04:27]

mchou:

doesn't make what I said false

[04:05:02]

AlHaz:

it doesn't, but i'm still saying that when you get down to the nuts and bolts the transcoder is using the same libraries as the encoder

[04:05:03]

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[04:05:10]

mchou:

lol

[04:05:52]

mchou:

every program written in C uses the std c library. Doesnt make them the same

[04:05:56]

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[04:06:36]

AlHaz:

back in the day, when i was young and impressionable, I had got the impression that someone had taken the time to write something that inteligently converted one frame format to another

[04:06:53]

AlHaz:

it was disappointing to learn that almost nobody has bothered to do that

[04:08:34]

AlHaz:

mchou: what I'm saying is that, well, take mencoder. If you capture raw frames with it, it's an encoder. if you convert one format to another with it, it's a transcoder. but it's still ffmpeg making the mpeg

[04:08:57]

AlHaz:

and you'd get the same result by piping a decoder into an encoder

[04:09:59]

AlHaz:

It's disappointing to me because philosophically it seems like it would be more prone to degradation

[04:10:54]

AlHaz:

And i realize there's major issues like colorspace differences

[04:11:15]

AlHaz:

you can't write a universal transcoder that doesn't have some arbitrary raw or semi-raw intermediary stage

[04:11:52]

AlHaz:

just seemed like an ambitious programmer could find a way to convert one frame format to another without fully decoding it

[04:14:42]

AlHaz:

and then on windows you can end up with dot-net apps that are literally only a little bit more than a gui slapped on top of the same theory as "foo | bar"

[04:18:15]

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[04:52:28]

chris__:

could my 9 gig mythbackend log file possibly be slowing things down during mythfilldatabase?

[04:52:40]

AlHaz:

well it's not helping

[04:52:49]

AlHaz:

but i doubt it

[04:53:05]

AlHaz:

unless it's 9 gigs because you're getting some excessive logging during mythfilldatabase runs

[04:53:11]

chris__:

:) should I delete it and start fresh?

[04:53:27]

juski:

what generally slows down mythfilldatabase is the EPG grabber, especially ones which page scrape

[04:53:29]

AlHaz:

unless you think there's some nugget of wisdom in there that you need

[04:53:41]

chris__:

no other than spuratic pauses during the db access....

[04:54:17]

chris__:

no system is perfect except during heave db access....

[04:54:30]

chris__:

heavy

[04:55:53]

chris__:

does anyone else have this problem? during mythfilldb I sometimes lose the stream to my remote frontend

[04:56:06]

chris__:

100 mbit connection

[04:56:15]

chris__:

raid 0 on the server

[04:57:50]

AlHaz:

wish i could tell you something inteligent – i don't currently use myth very much, and my hardware is overkill

[04:58:13]

AlHaz:

you could check things like dma settings on the hard drives

[04:58:20]

AlHaz:

other than that, heckifiknow

[04:58:40]

AlHaz:

you could edit the script that runs mythfilldb, have it nice the process way down

[05:00:17]

chris__:

dma is set on all the drives... like 110 mb/s read

[05:00:39]

AlHaz:

*nod*

[05:01:37]

juski:

chris__: you could optimise your database some

[05:01:58]

juski:

I mean your backend log in 9 gigs in size so who knows how big the database is

[05:02:40]

AlHaz:

well, you could experimentally run 'nice -19 mythfilldatabase' – but that presumes it's mythfilldb and not mysql causing the problem

[05:02:44]

juski:

the single biggest thing the database does is a massive query collectively known as the BFSQ (the big ....ing scheduler query) – it's massive

[05:03:16]

AlHaz:

ah, what the fuck do i know. I'm going to bed.

[05:03:22]

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[05:03:42]

juski:

but that generally only affects playback on the machine hosting the database – it's a very short spike in cpu usage while that runs in some cases

[05:04:46]

chris__:

well last night I ran top while the db was populating and mythfilldatabase was 60–70%

[05:05:15]

juski:

do you have a choice of when mythfilldatabase runs or do you use zap2it ?

[05:05:32]

chris__:

just zap

[05:05:56]

chris__:

I suppose I could set a time...

[05:06:36]

chris__:

like 250 recording in the db so maybe its time to prune....

[05:06:45]

juski:

well, zap2it gives mythfilldatabase a suggested time to run in each user's case, to lighten the load on their servers

[05:07:17]

juski:

250 recordings should be ok, and mythfilldatabase is supposed to run an optimisation process every time it runs

[05:07:24]

chris__:

oh ok... I thought I had the option still... been a while since I looked at that screen

[05:07:43]

juski:

though it'd be worth checking the integrity of the database with mysqlcheck

[05:08:29]

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[05:08:39]

juski:

maybe the NIC in the backend is crap, and it's mythfilldatabase getting the EPG data which is causing the playback pause

[05:09:11]

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[05:09:56]

chris__:

mysqlcheck -A -u root -p is all good... I'll try swaping cards when I get home from work....

[05:11:41]

juski:

if the backend can play recordings without any problems during a run of mythfilldatabase, it's more likely a network utilisation problem

[05:13:12]

chris__:

I'll test the network tonight... maybe reset the wrt router

[05:13:28]

juski:

is it a wired connection btw?

[05:13:38]

chris__:

yeah 100mbit

[05:14:18]

chris__:

3 wired systems (only 2 see any real use) and 2 wireless links

[05:14:36]

juski:

and when you say 'lose the stream' do you just mean you see a brief pause?

[05:15:17]

juski:

or is it more like the playback stops & kicks you out into the menu again?

[05:15:26]

chris__:

well it'll pause on and off for 5–10 seconds then the screen will turn black then I get teh recording screen again

[05:15:52]

chris__:

black for about 30 seconds....

[05:16:04]

juski:

youch

[05:16:24]

juski:

I'd say that'd be a network problem, if it only happens when mythfilldatabase runs

[05:16:46]

chris__:

yeah... so far the system is wife proofed... but this would kinda piss her off.... :(

[05:17:48]

chris__:

to optimize the db is it as simple as mysqlcheck -o mythconverg -u root -p ??

[05:18:43]

chris__:

I got an ok on all of the tables except 1 that said the table was upto date

[05:19:07]

juski:

mythfilldatabase should be optimising the db

[05:19:30]

chris__:

ok... hrmmmm

[05:19:30]

juski:

but if in doubt there's a script called something like mythdboptimise.pl in the /contrib dir

[05:19:45]

chris__:

I'll try that now...

[05:20:51]

sandeen:

on nvidia cards, is there much difference for myth between 5200, 6200, etc....

[05:21:18]

juski:

sandeen: depends on what you're doing

[05:21:31]

sandeen:

juski, trying -desperately- to get HDTV to playback reliably :)

[05:21:38]

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[05:21:39]

juski:

the more ram the video card has can be better for HD playback, I've heard

[05:21:49]

chris__:

I think the cards from 5200+ all have decoders built in

[05:21:59]

juski:

they don't have decoders built in

[05:22:00]

sandeen:

5200 and above can do the xvmc offload, I've read

[05:22:07]

sandeen:

but not full mpeg decoders, no

[05:22:19]

chris__:

well... ok...

[05:22:22]

juski:

but they can allow you to offload mpeg decoding onto them, so they can _help_

[05:22:25]

sandeen:

juski, hm, I could believe that (re: memory...)

[05:22:46]

sandeen:

I used to be able to do it just fine with xvmc and then had other problems (osd etc...) but now it can't even do it with xvmc

[05:22:54]

** sandeen is getting frustrated :( **

[05:22:59]

juski:

sandeen: til 0.20 you mean?

[05:23:15]

sandeen:

juski, no, i haven't used anything but 0.20

[05:23:18]

juski:

heh

[05:23:22]

sandeen:

:)

[05:23:36]

sandeen:

well I installed something several years ago just to play with it but now I'm -motivated- :)

[05:23:40]

juski:

check the 'use opengl vsync' setting. YMMV with that on either setting

[05:24:13]

sandeen:

I wish there were a decent step-by-step way to analyze the performance... it's all "turn this on (or off)" and it's a big combinatorial matrix :)

[05:24:41]

sandeen:

I suppose that if it were low vid card memory or bad memory bandwidth, that wouldn't turn into cpu utilization...?

[05:25:03]

sandeen:

i've been analyzing NFS performance today, and I know to start with the low-level block devices. I don't know jack about video :)

[05:25:33]

juski:

for starters what cpu do you have?

[05:25:43]

sandeen:

P4 2.6Ghz

[05:25:45]

sandeen:

1G of memory

[05:25:58]

sandeen:

PC2700. Geforce FX 5200

[05:26:00]

juski:

you need xvmc I think, for a cpu that 'slow'

[05:26:22]

sandeen:

wow, really....

[05:26:30]

sandeen:

maybe I should just bail out of this box & get an althlon64

[05:26:58]

juski:

though you said it used to be ok.. what's changed/upgraded since then?

[05:27:04]

sandeen:

it's not storage performance, playing a video completely out of buffer cache shows the same problem

[05:27:12]

sandeen:

juski, all of those "tips" of "turn this on/off" :)

[05:27:16]

sandeen:

it was never 100% ok

[05:27:24]

sandeen:

it almost seems nondeterministic :/

[05:27:44]

juski:

when presented with a lot of variables, change only one at a time to study its effects

[05:28:17]

sandeen:

yeah... well for example last night I was changing the audio buffering options and that actually seemed to solve it... yay....

[05:28:20]

juski:

how much ram does the video card have?

[05:28:28]

sandeen:

so I quit live tv, play a dvd, go back to live tv, and it's foo again

[05:28:29]

sandeen:

128M

[05:28:52]

juski:

128M might be a tad on the low side for HD & xvmc

[05:28:59]

sandeen:

i see a decent price on a 6200 w/ 256M... maybe I should spring for that and see

[05:29:24]

juski:

dunno if the 6200 can do the colour osd trick when xvmc is enabled though, so you might have to cop for that

[05:29:38]

sandeen:

hmm yeah...

[05:29:42]

juski:

or maybe it's a different 6xxx series with that issue

[05:30:49]

sandeen:

one thing I noticed earlier was that mplayer did ok with -nosound. mplayer docs also say that audio may be the first place to look on bad performance, which seems odd to me

[05:31:02]

sandeen:

but it did seem to make a difference

[05:31:38]

juski:

audio can, and does make a difference

[05:32:05]

sandeen:

though I use ac3 passthrough, should be very low computation involved :(

[05:34:23]

sandeen:

well I'll let google checkout chip in $20 for another vid card and see how it goes :)

[05:34:45]

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[05:40:42]

Sneezer:

is there a way to pipe the output of a program into a file and have it act like a node in /dev?

[05:41:23]

sandeen:

nodes in /dev do different things, what are you trying to do?

[05:42:23]

Sneezer:

I want to take the output from /dev/radio0 and pipe it through a program to turn it into an mp3 stream, take the stream and listen to it from the xbox

[05:42:57]

Sneezer:

in my mind thats a lot like what the hauppague cards do when they make /dev entries — sorry, I can't describe it better

[05:43:15]

sandeen:

well you can probably do that sort of thing with normal pipes....

[05:43:42]

sandeen:

radioapp -input /dev/radio0 -output – | streamerapp -input -

[05:43:44]

sandeen:

or something like that

[05:43:54]

sandeen:

pseudocommands :)

[05:44:40]

sandeen:

i guess there's a lame in the middle there somewhere too

[05:44:41]

Sneezer:

well... hrm....

[05:44:49]

Sneezer:

lame is important to this

[05:45:00]

Sneezer:

so if I got a shoutcast server setup localy and used that I could do it

[05:45:04]

Sneezer:

time to do more research

[05:45:10]

juski:

the output from /dev/radio is in mpeg format I think

[05:45:24]

sandeen:

or you could just buy a $8.99 fm radio :)

[05:45:24]

Sneezer:

its not

[05:45:25]

juski:

on hauppauge pvr cards anyway

[05:45:30]

Sneezer:

its in raw

[05:45:35]

juski:

really?

[05:45:37]

Sneezer:

which is....

[05:45:43]

Sneezer:

yeah — its something strange

[05:45:47]

Sneezer:

this is radio remember

[05:46:20]

juski:

so just PCM format then, like WAV is

[05:46:50]

sandeen:

i don't know enough about how shoutcast works, I suppose you can't tell it to stream "stdin" but maybe a FIFO...

[05:46:57]

juski:

there are already apps that work with radio tuners anyway

[05:46:59]

Sneezer:

juski I beleive so

[05:47:38]

Sneezer:

juski I only listen to one station really so I wouldn't mind having a stream of it. the station doesn't stream their stuff online so I can't get it that way

[05:47:58]

Sneezer:

this should be the most convoluted pipe string ever

[05:48:02]

juski:

note – when you're using the fm radio section of the card you won't be able to record or watch TV

[05:48:30]

Sneezer:

really? on a 150?

[05:48:53]

juski:

yup

[05:49:01]

Sneezer:

why is that?

[05:49:13]

juski:

because it'd be using the tuner of course

[05:49:23]

Sneezer:

is there a way to deactivate the radio stuff?

[05:49:45]

sandeen:

tune in a tv station :)

[05:49:46]

sandeen:

?

[05:49:49]

Sneezer:

or to have it stop tuning to radio

[05:50:02]

juski:

this is the one good thing about software encoder cards :) they're dirt cheap & no use for video, but a lot of em have FM tuners

[05:50:24]

Sneezer:

well I got a few of those laying around

[05:50:40]

sandeen:

heck I have a couple old bt848 cards i'd give away for shipping costs :)

[05:50:43]

Sneezer:

you nailed it juski " /dev/video24: PCM encoding"

[05:51:02]

juski:

so all you'd do is tune the framegrabber to your fave station & use shoutcast/icecast/whatever to stream the line input of your soundcard

[05:51:14]

sandeen:

one of the first linux kernel drivers I did was for audio on a bt848 card :)

[05:51:32]

Sneezer:

sandeen whats involved in writing kernel drivers?

[05:51:41]

Sneezer:

not that that conversation is appropriate for this channel or anything

[05:51:42]

juski:

.. or indeed even the audio device on the tuner card :)

[05:51:42]

sandeen:

Sneezer, C code ;-)

[05:52:02]

sandeen:

in my case it was getting the i2c audio chipset doc, looking at other drivers for similar chips, and connecting the dots

[05:52:06]

juski:

and a very good working knowledge of the v4l api :)

[05:52:12]

sandeen:

there was enough in common that I eventually merged stuff together

[05:52:15]

Sneezer:

I'm aware and even write a little C, how do you identify and locate the card? how do you send it messages?

[05:52:29]

sandeen:

Sneezer, well in this case it was all i2c bus stuff

[05:52:38]

sandeen:

that was like oh 6 years ago, I've been doing fielsystems since then :)

[05:52:46]

Sneezer:

sandeen what filesystem?

[05:53:00]

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[05:53:03]

sandeen:

xfs at sgi for 5 years, now I'm at red hat working on ext3, ext4, and other filesystem stuff

[05:53:15]

sandeen:

heh... tda7432.c:MODULE_AUTHOR("Eric Sandeen <eric_sandeen@bigfoot.com >");

[05:53:15]

Sneezer:

ext4? is that any good?

[05:53:17]

sandeen:

I should update that

[05:53:24]

sandeen:

ext4 is in early stages of development now

[05:53:31]

juski:

ymmv :-P

[05:53:32]

Sneezer:

what will it do that 3 doesn't

[05:53:52]

sandeen:

more than 16 terabytes, for starters

[05:53:54]

juski:

delete files faster & still be as robust as ext3 I hope

[05:54:02]

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[05:54:03]

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[05:54:06]

Sneezer:

lol — it killes me to delete files in ext3

[05:54:09]

sandeen:

it also uses extents instead of bitmaps for block alocation....

[05:54:23]

Sneezer:

and then I fell off the knowlege bandwagon

[05:54:23]

scott_:

who has free bt848 cards?

[05:54:28]

sandeen:

preallocation, delayed allocation, defragmentation interfaces...

[05:54:32]

juski:

I deleted over 300GB in one go a while ago, gave my box a heart attack

[05:54:34]

Sneezer:

I have spare ones scott_

[05:54:35]

sandeen:

in short, most things xfs invented :D

[05:54:43]

sandeen:

juski, ext3?

[05:54:46]

juski:

yup

[05:54:53]

Sneezer:

juski is it still deleting?

[05:54:54]

juski:

now I just use gradual deletes & all is well

[05:55:08]

sandeen:

can't speak to that -so- much, but for xfs, it would help a -lot- if myth put each recorded show in its own directory

[05:55:11]

sandeen:

might help ext3 too

[05:55:18]

juski:

the box got very iobound, put it that way

[05:55:31]

Sneezer:

blinking lights galore

[05:55:37]

juski:

sandeen: different dirs for recording groups is in svn now

[05:55:37]

sandeen:

if you stream 2 shows into the same dir on xfs, the files will get all... .interlaced for lack of a better word

[05:55:48]

sandeen:

but you have to manually specify groups?

[05:55:57]

juski:

I think so

[05:56:02]

sandeen:

i'd like an automatic showa/showa.mpg showb/showb.mpg

[05:56:12]

sandeen:

just prefix <foo>.mpg with <foo>/

[05:56:30]

sandeen:

filesystems tend to space out files in directories, and keep files in those directories close together

[05:56:48]

sandeen:

this would make the files more contiguous, and at least in xfs's case it should really help

[05:56:53]

juski:

I don't think fragmentation is much of an issue tbh

[05:56:59]

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[05:57:14]

sandeen:

wonder why it should be so slow to delete then..

[05:57:15]

juski:

seen as the files are so damn big to start with

[05:57:28]

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[05:57:37]

sandeen:

sure, they're big.. I saw one guy w/ a problem on the list where he had like 18,000 extents (fragments) in a single myth file :)

[05:57:38]

Sneezer:

is anyone in here approaching 16tb of storage space? even at work?

[05:58:02]

sandeen:

well I just got ext3 to go to 16T instead of 8T in the last couple months... but that was all on fake storage :)

[05:58:21]

Sneezer:

okay — anyone approaching 8tb?

[05:58:25]

juski:

16TB.. heh. not even the IT dept at work have that much to play with

[05:58:31]

Sneezer:

exactly

[05:58:55]

juski:

I was asked to delete some dvd images from my network drive the other week – tight arses

[05:59:03]

Sneezer:

why do we need more? people here are saving HDTV at incredible rates and seem to not have that bad of a time with it. why do we need more?

[05:59:04]

sandeen:

here let me whip one up

[05:59:08]

juski:

only like 15GB worth

[05:59:18]

Sneezer:

juski, were they legal?

[05:59:19]

sandeen:

16T will be peanuts in a year or two

[05:59:21]

juski:

yeah

[05:59:25]

Sneezer:

good

[05:59:26]

juski:

they needed the space back

[05:59:42]

sandeen:

[root@sandeen tmp]# df -h mnt/

[05:59:42]

sandeen:

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on

[05:59:42]

sandeen:

/tmp/fsfile 16T 528K 16T 1% /tmp/mnt

[05:59:44]

sandeen:

tada :)

[05:59:47]

Sneezer:

sandeen, what will take that much space?

[05:59:48]

Sneezer:

lol

[05:59:50]

Sneezer:

that doesn't count

[05:59:55]

sandeen:

Sneezer, HDTV streams ;-)

[05:59:57]

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[06:00:03]

Sneezer:

aren't people doing that now?

[06:00:07]

juski:

not much TV is worth keeping for long IMHO, so my <whatever> GB is enough

[06:00:18]

sandeen:

Sneezer, well it's not home users driving it. recording all your phone calls takes space too

[06:00:25]

Sneezer:

HA!

[06:00:33]

sandeen:

you think I'm kidding :)

[06:00:34]

Sneezer:

your saying the NSA runs linux?

[06:00:47]

sandeen:

eh, lots of IRIX right now, but linux too yeah :)

[06:01:03]

sandeen:

I don't know for sure of course but when I was at sgi, you kind of get a hunch of what your customers are doing

[06:01:16]

sandeen:

nothing detailed about that of course but you can extrapolate

[06:01:16]

Sneezer:

how did you land that job/

[06:01:19]

juski:

I need to get ready for work

[06:01:23]

juski:

laters, all

[06:01:24]

sandeen:

pure dumb luck :)

[06:01:28]

sandeen:

later juski thanks

[06:01:32]

Sneezer:

bye juski

[06:01:48]

Sneezer:

damn — segfaulting ivtv....

[06:01:49]

sandeen:

also when you can buy a 2T drive you'll probably tend to store lots of blu-ray disks and things, just because you can

[06:02:23]

sandeen:

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on

[06:02:23]

sandeen:

/tmp/fsfile 32T 528K 32T 1% /tmp/mnt

[06:02:25]

sandeen:

there, 32T

[06:02:30]

sandeen:

see how storage expands? :D

[06:02:42]

Sneezer:

how do you do that?

[06:03:07]

sandeen:

sparse files

[06:03:16]

Sneezer:

on thousands of drives?

[06:03:34]

sandeen:

no

[06:03:37]

sandeen:

got mkfs.xfs?

[06:03:51]

Sneezer:

yes but I don't want to make an xfs drive to have this point proven to me

[06:04:02]

sandeen:

you don't have to

[06:04:07]

sandeen:

mkfs.xfs -dfile,name=fsfile,size=8t

[06:04:10]

sandeen:

mkdir mnt

[06:04:14]

sandeen:

mount -o loop fsfile mnt/

[06:04:20]

sandeen:

tada, 8t filesystem

[06:04:26]

Sneezer:

is that how the crypto filesystems work?

[06:04:26]

sandeen:

not that you can actually store 8t on it :)

[06:04:33]

sandeen:

no

[06:05:32]

sandeen:

a sparse file has holes in it with no allocated blocks

[06:05:35]

sandeen:

[root@sandeen tmp]# ls -lh fsfile

[06:05:36]

sandeen:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 32T Dec 8 00:05 fsfile

[06:05:36]

sandeen:

[root@sandeen tmp]# du -hc fsfile

[06:05:36]

sandeen:

129M fsfile

[06:05:36]

Sneezer:

do they make a file then mount them with loops?

[06:05:56]

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[06:06:01]

sandeen:

hmm getting OT aren't I

[06:06:04]

Sneezer:

sandeen what do you think of linuxbios?

[06:06:26]

sandeen:

seems like a neat idea, seems impossible to support much hardware, at least last I looked

[06:06:40]

Sneezer:

have you played with it?

[06:06:43]

sandeen:

nope

[06:06:47]

sandeen:

never had a motherboard it could run on

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[06:07:10]

Sneezer:

I would like to play with it but unfortunately I can't bear to destory a motherboard over a pet project

[06:07:35]

sandeen:

yeah

[06:10:19]

** sandeen heads for bed **

[06:10:43]

Sneezer:

good night sandeen I need to do the same

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hjohnson:

ooh wee ou we don't sound like buddy holly

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[07:38:42]

Neeesat25:

Is anyone manage to use lirc connected to the motherboard onboard irda?

[07:40:54]

Dagmar:

Usually that's not possible.

[07:41:02]

Dagmar:

Read the LIRC docs and it explains why.

[07:42:10]

Neeesat25:

hmm

[07:42:31]

Neeesat25:

I have a motherboard that does not have serial ports

[07:42:48]

Neeesat25:

I know that lirc supports some usb remotes

[07:42:57]

Dagmar:

Looks like you're screwed unless you have USB ports or know where to buy a serial card from.

[07:43:46]

Neeesat25:

Also lirc can receive from device

[07:43:59]

Dagmar:

...and make many salad!

[07:44:12]

Neeesat25:

I try it but lots of keys are not functioning

[07:44:49]

Neeesat25:

Just like you said, salad

[07:44:59]

Neeesat25:

The best thing is serial ports

[07:46:40]

xris:

Neeesat25: the microsoft mceusb2 remote is pretty nice and works fine with lirc

[07:48:39]

Neeesat25:

I think lirc has drivers for that remote

[07:50:08]

Dagmar:

Kinda hard for it to work without them.

[08:00:21]

xris:

Neeesat25: that's what I just said

[08:00:44]

xris:

the driver is, in fact, called mceusb2. I don't know the part number for the remote itself (I got it as part of a bundle from intel)

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[08:39:04]

juski:

Neeesat25: if some keys work but others do not, the problem is not the driver

[08:44:40]

Neeesat25:

I will have to rerecord the lircd.conf

[08:45:42]

Neeesat25:

I need motherboards with serials. Is spdif works ok in myth?

[08:46:07]

Neeesat25:

Serial ports

[08:49:31]

juski:

does irw work with all the buttons on the remote?

[08:49:45]

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[08:50:28]

Neeesat25:

juski I am not at home at the momment but as I can remember it does

[08:50:51]

Neeesat25:

So it's just the lircd.conf

[08:50:58]

juski:

yup

[08:51:07]

Neeesat25:

I have used the one from the remote.zip

[08:52:33]

Neeesat25:

I found an excelent motherboard with x300 card on board (svideo, dvi and HD out)+ 8 channels audio with spdif out bla bla but dammed it does not has serial ports

[08:53:21]

Neeesat25:

I like to have my remote receiver embeded

[08:53:27]

juski:

serial ports aren't necessary for that

[08:54:21]

Neeesat25:

I need to have my lirc receiver inside the box and just the eye out

[08:54:38]

juski:

so?

[08:55:13]

Neeesat25:

?

[08:56:35]

juski:

nothing to stop you taking a usb IR receiver apart

[08:57:44]

Neeesat25:

yea I know but there are two usb slots infront of the case which I want to have them operative. So no more usb inputs for internal remote

[08:58:39]

juski:

nothing pleases you. ah well. good luck finding a board with serial ports these days

[08:59:18]

Neeesat25:

juski I have been to Tottenham court road you told me

[09:00:06]

Neeesat25:

I bought two htpc cases

[09:02:53]

Dagmar:

Umm... most come with at least one on them.

[09:03:09]

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[09:03:42]

juski:

even now? why do they even bother?

[09:03:55]

juski:

I'd rather have 5 pci sockets than a serial port ;)

[09:04:10]

Dagmar:

A serial port doesn't affect the number of PCI slots you can have

[09:04:40]

Neeesat25:

It's nice to have a beatiful myth box in your tv-room instead of a giant case

[09:04:52]

juski:

yeah true

[09:05:06]

juski:

so don't have a giant case – make a seperate backend ;)

[09:05:31]

Neeesat25:

yea sure but still you need a nice box

[09:05:54]

Neeesat25:

not so powerfull but it must be small and nice

[09:06:04]

Dagmar:

...or you can just put the thing *inside* some nice looking furniture

[09:06:05]

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[09:06:18]

Neeesat25:

hmm cool

[09:07:06]

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[09:08:10]

juski:

no need to have a nice looking case if you're gonna hide it away

[09:09:32]

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[09:09:33]

Neeesat25:

yea sure

[09:09:51]

Neeesat25:

But needs to be quiet

[09:17:51]

chris_:

any one ever thought about detaching the screen from an old laptop?

[09:18:06]

chris_:

for a frontend only that is...

[09:23:30]

Dagmar:

Yes, and after you spend about 15 minutes doing a little research on it, you find out that it's *not* cost effective

[09:26:38]

chris_:

well I have an old presario 700 with a *BADLY* cracked screen.... so I'll see what I can do....

[09:29:23]

meshugga:

guys, when i start mythfrontend on my second (external) head of my t30, i get distorted graphics on the lcd as soon as myth starts playing tv

[09:29:26]

meshugga:

any suggestions

[09:29:27]

meshugga:

?

[09:32:54]

meshugga:

ah, but when i start mplayer on the second head, everything stays ok, so i guess there is some messup by mythtv

[09:33:34]

chris_:

check your vga=XXX setting on boot

[09:34:07]

meshugga:

chris_: me?

[09:34:40]

chris_:

yea

[09:34:43]

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[09:35:00]

chris_:

what exactly is the lcd display doing?

[09:35:28]

meshugga:

it has graphic errors

[09:35:36]

meshugga:

looks like shifted pixmaps

[09:36:00]

meshugga:

screen stays normal and gets some occassional white lines

[09:36:12]

meshugga:

when i do something then, it gets completely unusable

[09:37:54]

meshugga:

mythfrontend says something on not having dri on :0.1, which would be the external display

[09:38:04]

meshugga:

yet, it plays tv correctly

[09:38:13]

meshugga:

but fucks up the lcd

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[10:49:57]

nomin-:

how can I get mythtv to use the line-in as the audio source instead of the microphone in? I recently installed it on ubuntu dapper and everything works except this sound problem.

[10:53:01]

meshugga:

ok im seriously pissed

[10:53:21]

meshugga:

why cant mythtv just display video like mplayer (which doesnt break my display)?

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[11:11:06]

juski:

nomin-: easy. just adjust the linux mixer to record from the line input not the mic input

[11:12:41]

nomin-:

ok, I'll try that again.

[11:13:52]

nomin-:

holy crap juski

[11:13:56]

nomin-:

it works

[11:13:57]

nomin-:

:)

[11:14:18]

nomin-:

lol, it took me a few hours to fix that one

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[11:14:45]

nomin-:

I hate it when the answer is right under my nose like that

[11:19:00]

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[11:19:26]

nomin-:

juski: the sound is only coming in the left earphone. Any suggestions to get sound in both sides?

[11:20:22]

juski:

the audio output of your tuner card is only mono, so you're using the wrong kind of cable

[11:20:36]

juski:

you need a 3.5mm mono to 3.5mm stereo cable I expect

[11:20:54]

nomin-:

but I can hear sound in both speakers using tvtime

[11:21:54]

nomin-:

I saw a message board earlier mentioning sound only coming in one speaker with mythtv. I'll look for it.

[11:22:47]

nomin-:

Strange Audio Behavior – Static in One Speaker http://threebit.net/mail-archive/mythtv-users/msg00005.html <---looks like same situation as mine

[11:23:08]

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[11:24:06]

nomin-:

maybe I need to play around with the volume controls more

[11:26:19]

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[11:27:15]

nomin-:

AC97 in only one speaker http://threebit.net/mail-archive/mythtv-users/msg00722.html <---same problem here

[11:28:02]

nomin-:

I think it has to do with Ubuntu's mixer because it worked just fine on mandriva

[11:40:30]

juski:

I think it's a PEBCAK error

[11:40:45]

nomin-:

what's PEBCAK?

[11:41:39]

Zider:

sounds like peacock?

[11:41:40]

Zider:

;)

[11:46:13]

Dagmar:

Excess carbon on keyboard

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[11:47:19]

nomin-:

I just plugged the cable card sound cord into line-in in the front and now I'm hearing the tv sound in both speakers but mythfrontend is NOT on

[11:47:24]

Zider:

nomin-: ubuntu has its own mixer? I thought it was alsas mixer.. ;)

[11:55:10]

nomin-:

hmm...I think I found a solution

[11:57:45]

nomin-:

nope. Now I've got the same problem with the line-in in front. I found out that the line-in in front is the "cd" capture option in the mixer and now I only get sound in the left earphone when I mute it and set as record source.

[11:59:14]

nomin-:

for some reason, when it's a recording source it only records in one speaker

[11:59:40]

nomin-:

it makes sense that it's mono and one channel

[12:00:00]

nomin-:

but why won't it duplicate the signal in the second speaker?

[12:03:17]

juski:

try adjusting the recording balance of the channel then

[12:04:12]

nomin-:

hmm...I forgot about the option to change the device

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[12:06:30]

nomin-:

juski: I haven't seen a balancing option yet

[12:07:19]

nomin-:

this audio problem in ubuntu might be similar to one I experienced with ubuntu breezy while using audacity. Audacity wouldn't record from the microphone on ubuntu unless I told it to record as 2 channels.

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[13:08:35]

Igg-man:

What video card should I buy for HD playback?

[13:10:46]

LLLyric:

probably nvidia

[13:10:57]

LLLyric:

6600 or newer I guess

[13:12:37]

Igg-man:

okay

[13:12:41]

Igg-man:

6200 too slow?

[13:12:51]

Igg-man:

I've got a 4000 now, but it doesn't quite cut it

[13:13:20]

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[13:13:31]

Igg-man:

If I transcode the video to MP4, it plays fine

[13:13:59]

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[13:44:39]

qu0zl:

5200 is the same as a 6600 for video playback as far as I know Igg-man

[13:44:45]

qu0zl:

it supports xvmc

[13:44:53]

qu0zl:

plus you can get cheap, passively cooled ones

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[14:09:42]

Kabutor:

hi, can mythtv works wit qt4 or must it have qt3 ?

[14:10:01]

Kabutor:

I have both in gentoo something brokes in the qsql and I reinstall qt4

[14:10:15]

Kabutor:

but its still not working until i realized that I too have qt3

[14:10:19]

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[14:11:45]

stuarta:

qt3 is required

[14:12:30]

Kabutor:

That have to be the problem

[14:12:32]

Kabutor:

thx

[14:13:38]

fryfrog:

Kabutor: the gentoo ebuilds for mythtv get qt3 setup, so it isn't a big deal

[14:14:02]

fryfrog:

you can do "emerge =qt3-* =qt4-*" i believe and recompile the latest qt of both

[14:14:15]

Kabutor:

but something in mysql has changed , or something gets broken in my machine, so I have to rebuild qt .

[14:14:43]

Kabutor:

Yes, I can, but revdep-rebuild didnt detect any problem, and i just wrote emerge qt

[14:14:48]

Kabutor:

and I get recompiled qt4

[14:15:07]

Kabutor:

so I have to do the same with qt3

[14:15:09]

fryfrog:

so do what i just told you?

[14:15:33]

fryfrog:

its either "=qt3-*" or "=qt-3*" (i forget which)

[14:16:00]

Kabutor:

x11-libs/qt-3.3.6-r4

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[14:30:55]

nomin-:

I just tested audio from a radio into line in and recorded it with audacity. It records and plays through both earphones just fine so the problem I'm having isn't with the system audio settings but with mythtv.

[14:31:26]

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[14:31:47]

nomin-:

for some reason, mythtv is only recording and or playing back audio in the left earphone.

[14:36:34]

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[14:37:12]

nomin-:

I just recorded the audio from the tv-card into line-in with audacity. Further confirming that the problem is with mythtv and not with my system volume settings.

[14:37:38]

jduggan:

soooo, brits. wots the best card to use for freeview?

[14:37:46]

jduggan:

anyone have any thoughts/preferences?

[14:38:48]

stuarta:

anything with working drivers

[14:39:19]

quicksilver:

depends what they're selling

[14:39:23]

quicksilver:

it seems to change all the time

[14:39:33]

quicksilver:

I"m moderately happy with my compromate 3000s

[14:39:47]

quicksilver:

but they cope rather poorly with weak-ish signals

[14:40:00]

quicksilver:

(much worse than my TV's built-in analog tuner or my old STB's digital one)

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[15:05:32]

netcrusher88:

is there a way with mythtv to change the volume on the tuner card as opposed to the recording device?

[15:05:47]

netcrusher88:

and eh... how do you change volume, anyway :)

[15:06:01]

Dagmar:

Afaik you get PCM and Master as your two primary volume controls.

[15:06:16]

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[15:06:33]

Dagmar:

If you're even having to worry about the volume of the tuner you need to set it somewhere between 78–90% and *leave it alone* unless you want your recordings to have screwed up volume levels

[15:07:02]

netcrusher88:

yeah

[15:07:28]

netcrusher88:

well tvtime has some option about a volume boost on the tuner card, and that seems to be neccessary

[15:07:49]

Dagmar:

Well, here's a big hint then

[15:07:56]

Dagmar:

If you're installing MythTV just to watch TV, stop now

[15:07:59]

Dagmar:

Stick with TVTime.

[15:08:08]

netcrusher88:

heh

[15:08:14]

netcrusher88:

nah, i want to record too

[15:08:20]

Dagmar:

MythTV is *way* too much trouble just to watch live television

[15:08:35]

netcrusher88:

i'd noticed

[15:08:40]

netcrusher88:

:)

[15:09:41]

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[15:09:47]

netcrusher88:

i mean, the fact that the card was free (rebate for full purchase price) may have something to do with it... i may buy a cable booster from a friend

[15:10:17]

Dagmar:

Throwing good money after bad

[15:10:22]

Dagmar:

Buy a PVR-150

[15:10:22]

netcrusher88:

eh

[15:10:38]

Dagmar:

Framegrabbing, to put it bluntly, is a *huge* pain in the ass all by itself.

[15:10:43]

netcrusher88:

yeah that's probably what i'll wind up doing

[15:10:47]

netcrusher88:

framegrabbing?

[15:10:51]

Dagmar:

It's literally 100 times easier when the card does the video encoding for you

[15:11:13]

Dagmar:

Yes, framegrabbing. That's how cards like the one you're using need to be recorded from

[15:11:57]

Dagmar:

The card just "does it's own thing" putting successive frames of video into a selected spot in memory, and *hopefully* if the CPU isn't too overloaded, it'll be able to copy them out of that space fast enough to keep from missing any

[15:12:06]

sandeen:

do people with multiple grabber cards just use a simple cable splitter to go to them?

[15:12:11]

netcrusher88:

that would explain why everything's choppy and black & white

[15:12:21]

Dagmar:

Generally they buy one with two encoders on it if they can

[15:12:54]

Dagmar:

netcrusher88: Well, the black and white problem is probably something awry with the driver, but *choppy* sounds like you're losing frames

[15:12:57]

netcrusher88:

saa7133 chip is the type of thing you're talking about?

[15:13:02]

** sandeen asks because the 2nd one is arriving todya :) **

[15:13:08]

GreyFoxx:

sandeen: Most do. Unless they have poor signal and buy and amp

[15:13:24]

netcrusher88:

i think it's bad signal too – tvtime at least needs signal detection off

[15:13:26]

GreyFoxx:

Mine are just behind a splitter as I have good signal anyway

[15:13:28]

Dagmar:

netcrusher88: Something like that, yeah. If it's working with TVTime correctly tho then it should be working right with Myth

[15:13:44]

sandeen:

GreyFoxx, thanks. yeah I got rid of all the other splitters in the house because the tivo seemed sensitive to the signal

[15:13:48]

Dagmar:

netcrusher88: Ah, not working with TVTime then...

[15:13:55]

netcrusher88:

not properly

[15:14:15]

netcrusher88:

working about the same with myth, except the audio level thing...

[15:14:26]

netcrusher88:

hey, it was free, i can't really complain i guess

[15:17:28]

netcrusher88:

any reccomendations where to buy a pvr-150?

[15:18:23]

sandeen:

netcrusher88, you in teh US?

[15:18:54]

netcrusher88:

yeah

[15:19:14]

sandeen:

http://www.buy.com/prod/Hauppauge_WinTV_PVR_1 . . . 0385910.html

[15:19:21]

sandeen:

shipped free, $71, with remote

[15:19:50]

sandeen:

http://www.buy.com/prod/Hauppauge_WinTV_PVR_1 . . . 0383781.html

[15:19:52]

sandeen:

$48 w/o remote

[15:21:35]

netcrusher88:

thanks

[15:21:47]

** sandeen has been scouring the net for deals on one, too :) **

[15:22:26]

netcrusher88:

i'll have to keep that link – college student + big family + christmas + girlfriend = big dent in bank

[15:23:07]

sandeen:

well the google checkout $20 discount won't last forever, dunno how long. after that $20 more

[15:23:45]

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[15:23:58]

netcrusher88:

yeah, without that newegg looks like a better deal

[15:24:00]

netcrusher88:

hmm

[15:24:26]

sandeen:

google checkout has been contributing mightily to my new myth box :)

[15:24:36]

netcrusher88:

i can imagine

[15:25:14]

netcrusher88:

i need to look into a new hard drive too... having obscenely fast internet means the hd fills up obscenely fast

[15:26:30]

sandeen:

i hope the pvr-150 remote works well, I sprung for the remote because the one that came with my HD card is just utter junk

[15:27:14]

|Torg|:

what remote did you have?

[15:28:44]

sandeen:

|Torg|, it came with a "Kworld ATSC-110" HD card...

[15:29:02]

|Torg|:

hmm what reciever does that card use?

[15:29:07]

sandeen:

needed patching to work at all, plus the remote itself was light & crummy, hadto push buttons hard & point it right at the receiver...

[15:29:26]

netcrusher88:

is Kworld typically low-quality, or is it just that i got a cheap one?

[15:29:29]

sandeen:

hmm not sure how to answer what receiver...?

[15:29:39]

sandeen:

my card itself seems to work just fine

[15:29:40]

netcrusher88:

chipset?

[15:29:49]

|Torg|:

you do realise that you can use any remote with a reciver, right?

[15:29:57]

sandeen:

saa7134

[15:30:00]

|Torg|:

there wasnt any reason, other then feature, to get a new rmote

[15:30:27]

sandeen:

|Torg|, well the pvr-150 is just so much better supported at this point and I've got enough other things to mess with...

[15:30:40]

|Torg|:

thats the reciver, not the remote

[15:30:41]

sandeen:

|Torg|, well there are different remote protocols right... ?

[15:31:07]

|Torg|:

quite a few, more then one bitrate

[15:31:12]

netcrusher88:

|Torg|: it is said on the gentoo-wiki or something that the saa7134 chips (particularly kworld cards) don't do lirc, just automagic

[15:31:13]

|Torg|:

yes its sorta like irda run wild

[15:31:27]

sandeen:

|Torg|, so I dunno for sure that the kworld card/driver can actually talk to anything else...?

[15:31:39]

|Torg|:

http://www.evation.com/irman/

[15:31:52]

|Torg|:

thats what I use, its quite stable works very well

[15:31:55]

|Torg|:

and its cheap :)

[15:32:03]

sandeen:

yeah, I should have probably picked that up

[15:32:15]

sandeen:

pvr-150 w/ remote & receiver was only $15 more at the time I got it *shrug*

[15:32:20]

|Torg|:

what I use most often tho is an RF keyboard

[15:32:29]

sandeen:

http://lists.zerezo.com/video4linux/msg13365.html is the patch I needed to get it going

[15:32:40]

sandeen:

ir-kbd-i2c module

[15:33:12]

|Torg|:

http://www.gyration.com/en-US/ProductDetail.h . . . mp;accshow=3

[15:33:30]

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[15:34:32]

** sandeen boggles that his HDTV card was half the price of the SDTV card **

[15:34:43]

|Torg|:

I use my frontend, well test it from another room actually using the RF

[15:34:56]

|Torg|:

why does that suprise you sandeen ?

[15:35:28]

sandeen:

well I guess there's maybe less hardware that goes into the HDTV since it "just" saves the stream

[15:35:38]

netcrusher88:

reminds me – bigger than recording tv to me is pausing live

[15:35:41]

sandeen:

but they're much newer than the SDTV cards, which haven't reallly gotten a lot cheaper

[15:35:44]

|Torg|:

correct, its really nothign more thena tuner on a pci card

[15:35:59]

|Torg|:

SDTV cards have encoders on them (well they should)

[15:36:04]

sandeen:

yeah

[15:36:08]

|Torg|:

its extra hardware, more cpu power, etc

[15:36:08]

nomin-:

awesome! Almost 24 hours later I finally have mythtv 0.18 working properly on ubuntu dapper.

[15:36:12]

sandeen:

they're also what, 5 year old technology

[15:36:25]

nomin-:

I didn't think it would take this long though

[15:36:27]

sandeen:

nomin-, cool, now upgrade to 0.20 ;-)

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[15:36:31]

nomin-:

lol

[15:36:36]

|Torg|:

HDTV cards are too, its just the protocal they use

[15:36:47]

|Torg|:

hell were using 40 year old technology to recive ATSC

[15:37:05]

|Torg|:

nomin- upgrace to .19 fiist

[15:37:21]

sandeen:

|Torg|, but in PC's they're still shiny & new so i'd think they'd command a premium. *shrug*

[15:38:49]

|Torg|:

well other then a chip on the card, its nothing dificult to make other then what we have used int he past 20 years

[15:39:01]

|Torg|:

the *tuner* is actualy idenitfical to a SD card

[15:39:18]

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[15:39:22]

|Torg|:

the chip is slightly differnt,

[15:39:28]

|Torg|:

and some of the nicer ones cache pids

[15:39:29]

sandeen:

oh really? I figured it needed something in a different frequency range

[15:39:50]

|Torg|:

so mine for example has some memory (slow and not very expensive) mind you

[15:39:58]

nomin-:

mine was only recording into the left earphone because I had the wrong card type selected in mythtv-setup. I chose the standard v4l capture card instead of the mjpeg capture card and now the sound comes in both earphones.

[15:40:01]

|Torg|:

sum efect you can get a good dvb-s or atsc card for about $80

[15:40:09]

nomin-:

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