MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (167):

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Error at /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 229:
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Details:
    datetime:  2025-12-31 19:14:56 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  Undefined variable $query
    filename:  /usr/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  229
Wednesday, May 31st, 2006, 00:02 UTC
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[00:04:26] TTT_Travis: what distro do you guys use with mythtv?
[00:04:33] TTT_Travis: I want something super easy to use
[00:04:42] TTT_Travis: but with more control then knoppmyth
[00:04:56] Sebulba02: debian-amd64
[00:05:35] TTT_Travis: no 64bit hardware
[00:05:43] TTT_Travis: but does debian work pretty well?
[00:05:58] dscoular: TTT_Travis, I'd choose the one with the best guide
[00:06:06] TTT_Travis: yeah
[00:06:09] dscoular: TTT_Travis, and largest support community
[00:06:11] TTT_Travis: and I am wondering what that is
[00:06:15] Sebulba02: works for me, but sid is unstable and testing might be too
[00:06:37] TTT_Travis: I was using ubuntu but lirc is so horrible on ubuntu
[00:06:45] TTT_Travis: its amazingly hard to setup
[00:06:49] dscoular: TTT_Travis, I use gentoo... but I reckon fedora is probably the largest community and has some good guides
[00:06:50] TTT_Travis: and my card didn't work
[00:07:01] TTT_Travis: dscoular thats what I was thinking
[00:07:14] TTT_Travis: my hardware isn't the fastest so what version of fedora would I be best to go with?
[00:07:20] TTT_Travis: I was thinking FC4
[00:07:25] dscoular: I think you have to be prepared for complications when trying to get myth working
[00:07:31] TTT_Travis: FC5 runs too slow and the guides are incomplete
[00:07:41] TTT_Travis: dscoular yeah, I know that from ubuntu
[00:07:46] TTT_Travis: maybe I will just go with FC4
[00:07:51] TTT_Travis: it looks to work pretty good
[00:09:22] dscoular: I don't see why FC5 would be slower than FC4, as the main difference is only the kernel... since you shouldn't really be running a desktop environment when using myth. However, I agree FC4 is probably better covered by the guides.
[00:09:49] TTT_Travis: don't you have to run a desktop envoirement?
[00:09:58] dscoular: there's also mythdora but I've not looked at that
[00:10:20] TTT_Travis: that might be what I want actually
[00:10:51] dscoular: TTT_Travis, if you are planning a dedicated front-end doing your tv-out then you don't even need to run a window manager
[00:11:15] TTT_Travis: k
[00:11:23] dscoular: TTT_Travis, good luck
[00:11:28] TTT_Travis: right now I am just testing with my monitor and cheapo tuner
[00:11:35] Juski: I'd recommend using at least a lightweight wm to try to avoid focus issues
[00:11:41] TTT_Travis: wonder if I install mythdora if I can keep my existing partitions
[00:12:10] ** dscoular is a bad kid and uses full blown resource hungry kde for no good reason **
[00:12:12] TTT_Travis: yeap
[00:12:22] TTT_Travis: it uses the fedora installer
[00:12:41] TTT_Travis: I'm gonna give it a try
[00:13:06] dscoular: If you have problems, I'll try and help you
[00:13:32] Juski: well – time for bed. mytharchive might've finished trundling though this recording by daybreak
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[00:21:12] eleazar: dscoular how do you run mythfrontend without a desktop environment?
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[00:26:31] rever: Hello I just installed mythtv. When I run mythtv-setup and select my card and source from zap2itlabs I get no channel in the edit channels part
[00:26:40] rever: Also scan channels are grayed
[00:26:45] Sebulba02: eleazar: there's no need for KDE or GNOME, something like openbox, fluxbox, twm will do
[00:26:58] eleazar: yeah i use xfce4
[00:27:11] eleazar: i just wasn't sure if he knew of a way to run it w/o a window manager at all
[00:27:27] Sebulba02: rever: did you put in your zap2it settings, username password?
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[00:27:54] rever: Sebulba02: Yes and it gave me a choice of my 2 lineups I chose one and then moved on
[00:27:58] Sebulba02: eleazar: I hope mythweb is able to do that soon enoughh
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[00:28:45] rever: this is what I see looks like an issue with connecting to the service
[00:28:47] rever: Connecting to datadirect.webservices.zap2it.com|206.18.98.160|:80... connected.
[00:28:48] rever: HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 401 Unauthorized
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[00:29:10] eleazar: anybody have sound working in kernel 2.6.16 with alsa? (gentoo)
[00:29:31] Dagmar: eleazar: VIA 82xx chipset?
[00:30:10] eleazar: Dagmar soundblaster audigy (in an old dell)
[00:30:18] Dagmar: Hmm...
[00:30:42] Dagmar: If it's on the board then it's one of the "cut down" ones you don't use the emu10k1 with
[00:31:09] Dagmar: ...but I think something kinda broke into pieces with 2.6.16.x. I've got a VIA 82xx that's only doing right channel, and it never really caused a problem before.
[00:31:22] eleazar: well it's a pci sound card
[00:31:29] Dagmar: I've had the motherboard sitting around doing nothing for a few months, rebuilt a machine with it, and sound started screwing up with the new 2.6.x kernel
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[00:31:41] Dagmar: It should just be the emu10k1 driver, or so I thoguth
[00:31:51] eleazar: well i was fine with 2.6.15 but once i upped to .16 i got no sound at all
[00:32:18] Dagmar: Yeah, I'm about to drop back to 2.6.15 because I wasn't having problems with some of the older 2.6.x kernels
[00:32:20] Sebulba02: rever: you signed up on labs.zap2it.com ?
[00:32:53] rever: Sebulba02: Yeah I just logged in and my account is not up for renew for another month
[00:32:55] eleazar: Dagmar yeah i think i might try the same, i heard some people say that 2.6.16 was having problems with alsa
[00:33:20] Sebulba02: that's odd
[00:33:21] Dagmar: I'm going to build the ALSA standalone stuff up first tho
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[00:35:14] dscoular: eleazar, to run myth without a desktop environment you can startup runlevel 3 (as opposed to runlevel 5) and type startx.
[00:35:19] Dagmar: I always build it as modules
[00:35:37] dscoular: eleazar, depending on your startx script and distro... startx commonly starts up X with twm.
[00:35:51] Dagmar: Pfft. Just put "exec mythfrontend" into your ~/.xinitrc
[00:35:52] eleazar: dscoular oh i see what you mean
[00:35:53] dscoular: eleazar, no huge resource hogging kde or gnome.
[00:36:00] Dagmar: You don't need twm
[00:36:07] dscoular: Dagmar is on the money
[00:36:20] Dagmar: I've actually got mine starting as the manager for runlevel 4
[00:36:33] dscoular: Dagmar, isn't even using a window manager
[00:37:31] Sebulba02: really?
[00:37:32] Dagmar: This way the machine just boots and goes straight into myth unless I've changed the default runlevel so I can do work at the console
[00:39:27] ** dscoular idiotically runs kde ;) **
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[00:43:06] Sebulba02: ouch
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[00:52:38] eleazar: i wish i knew more about linux : i have no idea how to do that stuff lol
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[00:57:53] dscoular: I often wonder why slashdot is slash dot and not dot slash ;)
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[00:59:23] kormoc: dscoular, say it out loud
[00:59:24] Whyvas: i can't seem to get a weather listing, it times out even when I try to go in the weather setup
[00:59:29] Whyvas: any ideas?
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[00:59:37] Whyvas: using knoppmyth
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[01:10:23] godless_: hi, having some problems populating the database, european ivtv user in debian, mythfilldatabase --manual gives errors
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[01:15:00] godless_: mytfilldatabase --file filelocation fails with missing or invalid parameters for --file option
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[01:40:12] godless_: I got something to inport with ther --file 1 -1 filename option but ... tv fails to start ... X Error: BadShmSeg (invalid shared segment parameter) 170
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[01:41:56] [R]: i made an iconmap.xml just like the example, but when i try to import it, i get "Error unable to set document content"... i read the ml but dindt find anything helpful, i dont have any & signs in the file
[01:42:03] warthog9: why is mythtv so much slower on an x86_64 machine vs. an x86, I mean the mythtv gui just feels slow
[01:42:24] Sebulba02: feels really dang-nam fast on mine
[01:42:40] warthog9: Sebulba02- I have a noticable lag between keyboard entry and actuall display
[01:42:54] warthog9: 2–3 seconds
[01:43:36] Sebulba02: split second here
[01:43:56] Sebulba02: using the latest stable?
[01:43:57] warthog9: Sebulba02- what proc and how much ram, what distro?
[01:44:11] warthog9: Sebulba02- yeah latest stable installed just a couple of days ago (ok maybe a week and a half ago)
[01:44:26] Sebulba02: debian stable(ish), dual opteron 1.6GHz, 2G PC3200
[01:45:02] Sebulba02: I guess it'd be testing really, since there is no debian-amd64 stable officially
[01:45:05] warthog9: yeah I'm single athy64, 2gb ram, fedora fc5 x86_64
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[01:45:36] ** Sebulba02 shrugs **
[01:45:43] Sebulba02: what else is running?
[01:45:54] mchou: Sebulba02: maybe all that smp is gunking you up :)
[01:46:13] Sebulba02: gunking me up?
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[01:46:27] Sebulba02: there's not a darn thing I can do to this to slow it down
[01:46:32] mchou: Sebulba02: that was mean for warthog9
[01:46:34] Sebulba02: except like a fork bomb or something
[01:46:38] mchou: eant*
[01:46:44] mchou: meant*
[01:47:25] warthog9: mchou- it's possible though it seems odd that it would, kde is about it – but I have the same install more or less on a pent-m machine fc5 x86 and it runs a lot faster
[01:48:06] warthog9: I suppose the mythbackend is also running on the x86_64 and a frontend vs. the x86 with only the frontend
[01:48:54] Sebulba02: wow, this is the most CPU I've ever seen used.. running mythfrontend
[01:49:13] Sebulba02: roughly 10% of each
[01:49:31] mchou: Sebulba02: bullshit.
[01:49:45] mchou: Sebulba02: you aint decode 1080i then
[01:50:28] Sebulba02: um, no, basic cable
[01:51:01] mchou: Sebulba02: I get local HDTV with "limited basic"
[01:51:32] Sebulba02: do you just run it through a cable box with a irblaster or something?
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[01:51:48] Sebulba02: or do you still get the basic by splitting the line?
[01:51:50] mchou: limited basic is like all of 20 analog channels including the shopping channels.....
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[01:52:18] mchou: Sebulba02: no, I run it thru firewire
[01:52:25] Sebulba02: cool
[01:53:22] Sebulba02: I've got plextors usb2 mpeg4 encoder, so I just split it before my cable box and get 1 – 76
[01:54:31] Sebulba02: I have yet to see the big deal with highdef, like I need it THAT perfectly clear to watch.
[01:54:36] mchou: Sebulba02: that's way too much HW for me
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[01:55:08] mchou: Sebulba02: with firewire STB I dont even need analog capture card......
[01:55:10] Sebulba02: mchou: it also serves as a fileserver/web server with ssl/smtp/imap with ssl/jabber/ftp/samba
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[01:55:24] Sebulba02: nfs
[01:55:35] Sebulba02: and god only knows what I've forgotten
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[01:56:07] Sebulba02: oh, dhcp
[01:56:15] Sebulba02: cups, etc, etc, etc
[01:56:30] Sebulba02: it's a beast of a machine, but I got sick of a box that couldn't hold it's own :)
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[02:04:01] banyan: Has anyone had a recent package problem with faad2 getting rid of the required library libmp4ff.so.0?
[02:04:51] Sebulba02: no, but I don't think anyone can read your mind about what distro you're using either
[02:08:56] warthog9: banyan: (1) are you using fc5? (2) if 1 == yes, do you have both atrpms & livna in your yum repos?
[02:09:49] warthog9: Sebulba02- I think I MIGHT have found my problem, I have an nvidia chipset and I'm not using the nvidia binary x driver
[02:10:16] Sebulba02: warthog9: ewww, that'd probably do it
[02:10:31] Sebulba02: I have an old 16MB AiW in mine.
[02:10:36] warthog9: Sebulba02- yeah, just noticed it when I found that mplayer couldn't get the proper X resources on the backend
[02:10:52] warthog9: Sebulba02- did they ever get a means of using the tv tuner in that with mythtv?
[02:11:11] Sebulba02: as many times as I've tried, gatos never seemed to cut it
[02:11:20] Sebulba02: so no, I don't believe so
[02:11:24] warthog9: thats what I figured
[02:11:31] Sebulba02: hense why I bought the plextor
[02:11:37] banyan: Warthog9: 1 == yes. 2 == Only on particular limited packages.
[02:12:07] warthog9: banyan: remove livna from your rotation, and you will need to reinstall faad from atrpms I believe
[02:12:27] ** warthog9 JUST had that problem on his backend machine and decided atrpms & livna don't get along **
[02:13:05] banyan: ewwww. When given the choice, I would farrr sooner go with Livna.
[02:13:14] banyan: Oh well...
[02:13:26] banyan: One does what one must.
[02:13:38] warthog9: banyan: agreed but atrpms has the mythtv rpms ;-)
[02:13:42] Sebulba02: it's redhat based, you have a choice? :)
[02:14:13] Sebulba02: I by no means suggest anything is better, therefore avoid a flamewar.
[02:14:48] banyan: I have found that less headaches come with minimizing the use of atrpms beyond the bare necessities of the mythtv requirements.
[02:15:12] banyan: Just personal experience.
[02:15:31] warthog9: Sebulba02- your not going to incure a flamewar with me, I have my views on distros and I don't begrudge others their choices
[02:15:54] Sebulba02: I'm not, just messin' with everyone.
[02:16:09] Sebulba02: It's been a while since I've used anything else, so I can't speak.
[02:16:19] warthog9: la la la reboot to new kernel + nvidia drivers la la la
[02:16:21] banyan: Hmm, if I enable that one package from atrpms, I wonder which distro yum will choose it from.
[02:16:41] warthog9: banyan: don't know, I still have rather nasty grumblings about yum
[02:17:10] banyan: sebula02 — how do you find upgrading between fc revs? Is it a giant headache or not so much? do you just reformat and start over?
[02:20:16] banyan: sorry, Sebulba02 that is.
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[02:23:51] abarbaccia: hey all – anybody here can help me with setting up hdtv scanning for channels and such?
[02:24:11] abarbaccia: i got my scan results but the file is massively long – and i don't think i can really pick up 268 HD channels
[02:25:53] banyan: can you grab a tv channel list from zap2it?
[02:26:05] banyan: are you in Canada / US?
[02:27:22] Sebulba02: banyan: it's been years before I used FC
[02:27:30] Sebulba02: s/before/since
[02:28:24] warthog9: WOW THATS a bug
[02:28:43] abarbaccia: banyan: yes im in the US
[02:29:18] abarbaccia: its just when scanning for the channels with the dvb scan util i get back a ton of channels named [000#]:blah:blah:blah:blah
[02:29:29] abarbaccia: how do i take this data and tell myth what to do with i
[02:29:29] abarbaccia: t
[02:29:55] banyan: Um, easiest thing to do is do a mythtvsetup
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[02:30:37] banyan: and set up your location. Then you can do a mythfilldatabase.
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[02:31:33] abarbaccia: banyan: i know how to setup the listings – its a matter of telling myth what dvb mplex id and what frequency to use to tune a channel
[02:31:38] taer: so, are there any HW vendors releasing a HDTV capture card capture over digital cable in the US? Anyone in the central texas area have any luck capturing via firewire with time warner?
[02:32:07] abarbaccia: taer: there are cards out to capture over cable – infact, most can
[02:32:18] taer: right, but digital cable
[02:32:26] taer: ie, I want to get rid of the need for IR blaster
[02:32:38] taer: and ideally, capture digital signals instead of encoding analog
[02:32:47] abarbaccia: wont happen
[02:32:52] taer: didnt think so. :(
[02:32:59] abarbaccia: all your digital channels are encrypted by the calbe company
[02:33:04] banyan: I have one of those Microsoft MCEUSB2 things which has IR blasters with it but they aren't supported... unless somebody knows different!
[02:33:06] abarbaccia: so you need the cable box to decrypt them
[02:33:12] taer: no cards that support the cable card thing?
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[02:33:25] banyan: Unless you can talk your cable provider into activating your card like it's a box.
[02:33:33] banyan: hugely dubious.
[02:33:39] abarbaccia: taer: they wont release cards that allow for cable card because they want to guarentee the content is being locked down by some ridiculous DRM
[02:33:41] banyan: They're pretty cagey as a rule.
[02:34:28] warthog9: we'll get one eventually but it's going to be a while
[02:34:35] abarbaccia: if u have cable card in your computer then you can get HBO in perfect digital format – and we've all seen what digital format means (think DVD copying)
[02:34:56] Sebulba02: ati had a highdef tuner, but I heard it wasn't so good and avoided it
[02:35:06] taer: hmm. so in 09 whatever, when analog is supposedly gone
[02:35:14] octavious: so i'm having some issues...i have a PVR150 card thats works just fine (using mplayer /dev/video0 and the assorted ivtv tools)...but when i try to configure it to work with mythtv, it doesn't show any video and the audio is extremely skippy for awhile until i have to forcefully end X...any ideas?
[02:35:16] taer: I suppose we'll all be irblasting awayt. :(
[02:35:46] banyan: any other mceusb2 users in da house?
[02:35:51] Sebulba02: taer: analog isn't going away, it'll just require a converter to use
[02:36:01] taer: liek the current cable boxes?
[02:36:02] warthog9: Sebulba02- ohhh that is sooo much faster yay for nvidia binary driver
[02:36:11] taer: or a passive one?
[02:36:12] Sebulba02: I bet
[02:36:25] taer: oh well
[02:36:33] Sebulba02: a passive what?
[02:36:35] Sebulba02: converter?
[02:36:45] taer: dunno, yeah.
[02:36:53] taer: hate ir blastin
[02:37:05] Sebulba02: I don't know what the plan is, but do you think they can make it happen in less than 3 years?
[02:37:11] banyan: It's sad that I have the ability hardware wise to blast but the software isn't there.
[02:37:13] abarbaccia: taer: get acable box with a serial port or a firewire port and use that
[02:37:27] abarbaccia: just to change channels – the rest can still be done with your regular capture stuff
[02:37:47] banyan: *IF* your cable provider enables the ports. Mine won't.
[02:38:08] abarbaccia: banyan: you can call them, tell them you're getting a tivo and need to use those ports because the IRBlaster isn't working
[02:38:11] taer: heh. that sucks. have a friend ognna try that in my area
[02:38:15] Sebulba02: mine's got usb on it, but I've never tried plugging anything into it
[02:38:54] ** warthog9 chuckles noticing his dd is now working exactly how he expected **
[02:39:07] Sebulba02: abarbaccia: how do you know the irblaster isn't working if you haven't gotten the tivo? :)
[02:39:22] abarbaccia: Sebulba02: just lie to the cable company is all i'm saying
[02:39:28] Sebulba02: yeah
[02:39:45] warthog9: what I'm curious about are the new tivo's out there – they have dual cablecard slots, it would be nice to rip the tivo software off of one of those and rebuild what they are doing so it's more open
[02:39:51] banyan: I would prefer to do that, but still — my mceusb2 has the LED thingies right there! and the software treats it as read-only.
[02:40:19] taer: are there capture cards w/ cable card slots?
[02:40:21] banyan: warthog9, why do that if you can use myth? ;-)
[02:40:31] taer: get them activated pretending they're in a TV
[02:40:45] warthog9: banyan- 'cause there are cablecard slots ON the tivo
[02:40:51] warthog9: but mythtv ON the v3 tivo
[02:41:31] banyan: Sure, like use it as an xbox with capture capability, that would be cute.
[02:41:58] warthog9: banyan – yeah but I haven't gotten that ambitous yet
[02:42:31] banyan: Trouble with my area is the tivo idea flopped and tivos per se are pretty rare around here. the cable companies just sell the motorola boxes with capture
[02:42:55] abarbaccia: banyan: threaten to cancell all your services for satellite
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[02:43:16] abarbaccia: you gotta get a manager on the phone tlel him how excited you are about your tivo and how much the irblaster sucks and how you neeed the data port enabled
[02:43:43] dscoular: kormoc, I still don't get it. dotslashdotorg seems so much more meaningful – /..org doesn't make any sense even when I say it out loud.
[02:45:30] banyan: I use *$ as shorthand for starbucks.
[02:46:11] banyan: yeah, slashdot — I guess that's still root /.
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[02:50:45] taer: so that ATI USB card...
[02:50:53] taer: w/ the cable card slot..
[02:51:17] warthog9: taer: what there's an ati usb thing with a cable card slot?!
[02:51:22] taer: vista only, maybe it will be hacked. :)
[02:51:24] taer: yeah
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[02:51:40] dscoular: banyan, but it really is pretty lame IMHO
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[02:52:18] ** warthog9 is looking for this addon, whats the model number? **
[02:52:51] taer: they're waiting for windows vista for its "good DRM"
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[02:54:35] warthog9: yeah that will get linux drivers
[02:54:43] taer: its USB
[02:54:48] taer: maybe...
[02:55:11] MonMotha: mmm...cablecard
[02:55:14] taer: I know next to nothing about it.. but maybe its reverse engineerable
[02:55:18] warthog9: taer: I don't think it's a question of 'maybe' it's a question of hoe long it takes
[02:55:24] MonMotha: if only US CA was as nice as european CA
[02:55:27] taer: i'd buy 3
[02:55:40] taer: I would love a nice clear capture..
[02:55:46] MonMotha: I'd almost prefer PCI or PCIe, though
[02:55:50] taer: fox is grainy on my pvr500
[02:56:02] warthog9: taer: yeah and for a dvr you realistically don't need two way communication
[02:56:04] MonMotha: taer: you should be able to get all your local network affiliates in the clear
[02:56:24] MonMotha: I pull all my local networks (except UPN) and Universal HD (for whatever reason) in the clear off my cable
[02:56:24] taer: MonMotha: I want it all of course
[02:56:39] MonMotha: yeah, having access to the paid channels (I'm mostly interested in Discovery HD) would be nice, of course
[02:56:49] MonMotha: opencable is a joke of a name. It really should be called proprietarycable
[02:56:56] taer: warthog9: Love their excuse. "you cant get video on demand w/ carble card"
[02:57:14] warthog9: taer: fine by me
[02:57:32] warthog9: taer: I'll build me a dvr and hae all the video on demand I want
[02:57:57] MonMotha: no kidding
[02:57:57] taer: heh.. and the rest, thats what the car and video stores are good for
[02:58:01] taer: I'm not that lazy
[02:58:09] MonMotha: fortunately, they are required by the FCC to do cablecards
[02:58:17] MonMotha: well, if their system has over 450MHz bandwidth or they do HD
[02:58:29] MonMotha: which describes most modern cable systems
[02:59:26] warthog9: I wonder what codec it actually outputs
[02:59:36] warthog9: as it claims to only use 19.2Mbps over usb
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[03:01:20] MonMotha: that would be exactly the bandwidth of 8VSB
[03:01:32] MonMotha: so that may be the spec for OTA reception
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[03:01:57] MonMotha: QAM256 and 16VSB are much higher, around 45Mbit for QAM256 IIRC
[03:02:07] MonMotha: however, it may have hardware PID filters
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[03:22:34] AngryElf: I'm getting a seg fault when I goto Setup -> Edit Keys......never tried entering that menu till today, any ideas?
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[04:00:20] dscoular: AngryElf, what version... I thought I saw a patch that addressed that in 0.19-fixes a while ago.
[04:00:36] AngryElf: .19
[04:00:59] Dagmar: Strangely it didn't bug out on me
[04:01:00] dscoular: .19-fixes svn has a boat-load of fixes
[04:01:13] mrjohns: My question: I want to record video from s-video in from my pc-turner hardware, and audio from my sound card, different inputs but the same video..
[04:01:32] Dagmar: BTW, there's a new kernel out that *seems* to get back in sync with the latest released ALSA
[04:01:40] dscoular: AngryElf, If you visit svn.mythtv.org you can probably find the ticket for the patch.
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[04:42:18] lkj1: Will this work? http://tinyurl.com/nhgeg
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[04:43:10] xris: lkj1: not a clue. google is your best friend in this case.
[04:43:20] lkj1: Ok. Thanks
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[04:49:06] lkj1: Do you guys know if there is a cardbus card with just FM/AM radio, but not video?
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[04:50:41] octavious: hmm. so i was able to get mythtv to play live TV, but it cannot change the channel....
[04:51:37] octavious: any ideas?
[04:55:03] xris: octavious: what kind of card?
[04:56:00] octavious: PVR150 using the ivtv driver
[04:59:43] xris: octavious: you didn't accidentally configure a channel changing script, did you?
[05:00:08] lkj1: Does anyone know what a good FM tuner cardbus card is that works with linux?
[05:00:21] octavious: xris: no, i recall doing no such thing
[05:00:40] xris: you might want to check to make sure there's nothing there.
[05:00:55] xris: lkj1: apparently not.
[05:01:31] octavious: xris: where could i have accidentally done that...like where in the setup
[05:01:38] xris: mythtv-setup
[05:08:08] lkj1: xris: Where is the list of supported hardware for v4l? Isn't it supposed to be somewhere around here? http://www.exploits.org/v4l/
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[05:12:03] xris: lkj1: yup, something like that
[05:12:19] lkj1: But isn't there supposed to be a list of the hardware?
[05:14:04] mchou: ok, I'm really confused. For some reason mythfilldatabase no longer runs every day. Where was this set in myth?
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[05:14:15] xris: mchou: tv settings in the frontend
[05:14:31] xris: lkj1: should be one around somewhere. I haven't used v4l stuff in years, so not really sure
[05:16:41] mchou: xris: hmm, I dont see a setting for mythfilldb in the front end. Would you mind being a bit more specific?
[05:17:35] xris: mchou: thought it was on one of the panes of the "general" type tv setting
[05:18:53] mchou: xris: ahh, thanks, see it now....
[05:18:58] xris: :)
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[05:19:30] prg3: Anyone out there running ivtv on ubuntu/dapper?
[05:20:42] mchou: xris: I had checked the box that says "Run mythfilldatabase at time suggested by grabber"
[05:21:01] mchou: xris: I think that MAY have been the problem :)
[05:23:06] xris: mchou: you want that checked or zap2it gets annoyed
[05:24:22] mchou: xris: annoyed?? how does zap2it get annoyed?
[05:26:45] xris: mchou: people were overloading their machines on the late-night schedules.
[05:27:04] xris: they were going to pull the plug on the whole project because of the load.
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[05:28:37] octavious: xris: well now i can't even watch TV...it seems the frontend is trying to open some .mpg files that don't exist...
[05:28:59] octavious: xris: i assume its the livetv-buffer, but i'm not sure how to tell mythtv to ignore those files or create new ones..
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[05:30:29] xris: octavious: odd.
[05:30:35] xris: restart the backend?
[05:30:57] octavious: xris: tried that...no luck
[05:31:08] prg3: Anyone have any ideas on what the "best" version of ivtv is these days?
[05:31:37] mchou: prg3: that depends on the kernel ver and the card you are using
[05:31:58] xris: octavious: when I hit that point, I generally stop the backend, go into setup and recreate everything from scratch.
[05:31:59] mchou: prg3: but in general latest is "best"
[05:32:01] prg3: 2.6.15-23-k7
[05:32:16] prg3: Ok, so the site has 0.4.5 for < 2.6.16, I'll go with that
[05:33:28] octavious: xris: it looks like thats what i'm going to do, thanks
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[06:08:33] Chicago: how can I get subtitles?
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[07:02:58] m13a8: what would you recommend for the cheapest card for mythtv? one with mpeg codec and one without? i hear hauppauge is best.
[07:03:26] m13a8: maximum price $60, but i'd like to get closer to $40
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[07:09:07] sphery: m13a8: Not the cheapest, but the best for the money is the Hauppauge PVR-150
[07:09:22] Dagmar: That depends on how you look at it
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[07:09:41] sphery: Actually, it's the one I'd buy even if I had much more money
[07:09:46] Dagmar: I went for the PVR-500 because I knew I was going to want a second tuner card eventually, and it was slightly cheaper than two PVR-150's
[07:09:58] m13a8: do you know how much a PVR-150 usually runs for?
[07:09:59] Dagmar: Definitely not regretting it
[07:10:05] Fosten: KaZeR: are you around this evening?
[07:10:06] Dagmar: m13a8: www.pricewatch.com
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[07:10:32] MonMotha: I got my PVR-150 for $69 after rebate a year ago
[07:10:40] MonMotha: that seems to be about their current retail price
[07:10:47] MonMotha: online can be cheaper, of course
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[07:11:13] sphery: m13a8: about $50
[07:11:17] sphery: I mean $60
[07:11:21] sphery: (typo, sorry)
[07:11:24] Dagmar: NewEgg seems to have the cheapest ones at the moment, at 67 and some change
[07:11:30] sphery: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E65HOO/s . . . ncoding=UTF8
[07:11:35] sphery: $60
[07:11:39] m13a8: ok, that's a littttle bit more that i was hoping fore but i'll keep it in mind, thanks :)
[07:11:45] m13a8: for*
[07:11:54] sphery: amazon's is $60
[07:12:02] Dagmar: sphery: You didnt' include shipping
[07:12:18] Dagmar: This is why I use Pricewatch in the first place. Their numbers include shipping
[07:12:25] Dagmar: Otherwise I'd just use Froogle
[07:12:36] sphery: Well, newegg's is $70 with shipping
[07:12:57] Dagmar: http://castle.pricewatch.com/s/search.asp?s=pvr-150
[07:13:02] sphery: $64.99 + $4.99
[07:13:02] Dagmar: $67.98
[07:13:25] Dagmar: $62.99.
[07:13:39] Dagmar: Keep in mind you can actually get discounts from companies just from following a link in through Pricewatch
[07:13:42] Dagmar: :)
[07:13:54] m13a8: alright, thanks :)
[07:14:02] Dagmar: NewEgg is a bit ruthless that way
[07:14:20] Dagmar: I wound up getting a 1Gb SDcard (PNY) for $22 (total!) last month
[07:14:50] m13a8: woa, now that's a price i like to see! i've been in the market for one of those too, was it instant savings or a male in rebate type thing
[07:14:56] Dagmar: I *do* leave the house from time to time, but it's not for shopping anymore
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[07:15:07] Dagmar: It was an outright "you buy this!" price
[07:15:21] sphery: You're looking at the AVerMedia PVR-150
[07:15:28] sphery: Not the same as the Hauppauge PVR-150
[07:15:43] sphery: Does it work with Myth?
[07:15:46] sphery: Is it as good?
[07:16:05] Dagmar: I thought it was just rebranded. Ah well
[07:16:12] sphery: On the page you linked, the Hauppauge PVR-150 is $77
[07:16:41] sphery: I don't know. It might be rebranded.
[07:16:48] Dagmar: 1Gb SDcards http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp . . . mp;maxPrice=
[07:17:02] Dagmar: Heh. corsair for $23. Not bad
[07:17:06] sphery: I have Hauppauge PVR-350, PVR-250, and 2xPVR-150's, and I love them.
[07:17:11] mchou: bah, frys had a patriot 1GB sd for $0 AR
[07:17:16] m13a8: i know that's a good price for a good card and everything, but do you know if there's anything at all cheaper, maybe even $15 bucks? i'm kindof running low on funds
[07:17:28] mchou: m13a8: yeah, firewire
[07:17:45] mchou: beats pvr-x50's by a billion miles
[07:17:55] sphery: For $15 you might be able to get a frame grabber, but you won't be able to get a hardware encoder.
[07:18:00] mchou: ok, maybe not a billion :)
[07:18:11] sphery: Most of the time, frame grabbers with stereo audio are $20-$30
[07:18:15] mchou: sphery: why encode at all?
[07:18:18] m13a8: mchou: can you give me a model number or anything?
[07:18:26] sphery: Those under $20 are typically mono only.
[07:18:31] mchou: m13a8: where do you live?
[07:18:35] m13a8: sphery: would i still be able to capture video?
[07:18:37] m13a8: kansas
[07:18:49] mchou: m13a8: you subscribe to cable?
[07:18:56] m13a8: yea, basic cable
[07:19:07] mchou: m13a8: who is cable provider?
[07:19:09] Dagmar: The problem with getting "just" a tuner card is that without hardware-accellerated encoding, the task is VERY CPU intensive
[07:19:13] m13a8: eagle i think
[07:19:29] mchou: m13a8: I'm not familiar with them.......
[07:19:39] m13a8: ahah, yea i think they're local only
[07:19:45] Dagmar: For awhile, before I built the new chassis, I was running the entire thing on my desktop machine with the backend and database running on my desktop machine.
[07:19:56] Dagmar: It could be recording and the only way I'd know was that the drive light would be flashing
[07:20:06] mchou: m13a8: but go down to your cable provider and as for a firewire capable set top box
[07:20:09] Dagmar: This is definitely not the case with a Bt8x8 card
[07:20:19] mchou: m13a8: they might charge $5/mo or something.....
[07:20:28] m13a8: ok
[07:20:40] Dagmar: You can only get the firewire-capable boxes if you're subscribing to *digital* cable
[07:20:43] mchou: m13a8: but get yourself any generic firewire card......
[07:20:48] Dagmar: ...and in those cases they don't charge you more for 'em
[07:20:56] mchou: Dagmar: bullshit
[07:21:04] Dagmar: It's a requirement from the Powers That Be that digital cable boxes be firewire-capable.
[07:21:18] mchou: Dagmar: I hae limited basic and I have firewire STB
[07:21:26] Dagmar: mchou: What, you're going to try to tell me that the typical *analog* cable box is going to have a firewire port on it?
[07:21:27] mchou: have*
[07:21:39] mchou: Dagmar: did I say that?
[07:21:53] sphery: mchou: You need to encode to compress. Uncompressed video is huge--for 720x480@30 frames/sec and 60 fields/sec with 12-bit color is 53 GiB/hr.
[07:21:58] Dagmar: You got lucky if you managed that
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[07:22:13] mchou: Dagmar: I said I subscribe only to limited basic and have a HDTV STB form cable co for $5/mo
[07:22:21] Dagmar: Comcast definitely doesn't have 'em available unless you're getting digital cable.
[07:22:27] mchou: Dagmar: luck has NOTHING to do with it
[07:22:32] mchou: Dagmar: lol
[07:22:48] mchou: Dagmar: do a '/whois mchou'
[07:23:03] m13a8: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815276002 what do you think of a card like that?
[07:23:04] mchou: and find out who my cable co is.....
[07:23:05] sphery: m13a8: Yes, you could record video, but the quality will probably be less than that you'd get from a hardware encoder and you wouldn't be able to do more one channel at a time per backend.
[07:23:12] Dagmar: Cable companies are cheap. They're not going to shell out for customers to have a cable box that can *encode* the video to firewire unless someone points a gun at their heads
[07:23:31] mchou: Dagmar: STFU. You're out of your depth
[07:23:35] Dagmar: I'll have to bug ethan about that tomorrow then
[07:23:45] mchou: Dagmar: it's the freaking law
[07:24:02] Dagmar: Dude I talk to more than a few people who work at Comcast in their various departments here
[07:24:11] Dagmar: Learn some manners.
[07:24:18] Dagmar: The
[07:24:29] mchou: Dagmar: so? half the ppl at comcast dont know what they are talking about
[07:24:30] Dagmar: The "law" you refer to only applies to digital cable.
[07:24:40] mchou: Dagmar: bullshit.
[07:24:57] Dagmar: Yeah, but in my case one of them is one of the techs in charge of actually allocating the bands the channels are sent thru
[07:25:19] mchou: Dagmar: tell me how the analog to digital 'conversion' is supposed to take place.
[07:25:23] Dagmar: Another one is in charge of the equipment and programming that does the content substitutions (commercial/ad placement)
[07:25:44] Dagmar: mchou: You're the one who seems to think converting from analog to firewire is nothing
[07:26:03] mchou: Dagmar: so? your point is? They dont deal with subscriptions.
[07:26:28] Dagmar: What? So I don't talk to CS and marketing reps
[07:26:38] Dagmar: WElll, actually I do know one of their marketing people here as well
[07:26:39] mchou: Dagmar: I suggest you look at the comcast web site
[07:26:58] sphery: m13a8: make sure if you get the Sabrent card you find out if it will work on Linux (i.e. drivers?).
[07:27:14] mchou: Dagmar: it says so in plain language that you dont need to subscribe to digital to qualify for HDTV box
[07:27:50] mchou: Dagmar: it says if you have HDTV set, lease a HDTV STB from comcast.
[07:28:34] Dagmar: Since when do they give people that for Basic cable
[07:29:02] Dagmar: In this market if you want HDTV you've got to get iDig
[07:29:04] MonMotha: if all you want is the free stuff (local channels), just get a PCI tuner. No annoying STB sitting next to your machine. Those channels are unencrypted by FCC mandate
[07:29:05] mchou: m13a8: my recommendation is to go with FW since you can get analog and local HDTV with the STB over firewire
[07:29:26] MonMotha: AirStar or pcHDTV should work fine for that
[07:29:45] mchou: MonMotha: screw that
[07:29:58] mchou: MonMotha: no way I'd buy those things
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[07:30:17] mchou: especially with opencable and cablecard on PC up in the air
[07:30:20] MonMotha: why not? they work great, and you don't have to have an STB sitting on top of your machine, very nice
[07:30:26] mchou: lol
[07:30:28] MonMotha: well yeah, if you want premiums, use an STB
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[07:30:58] mchou: for $5/mo I can afford to lease STB for 2 yrs and still come out ahead over pcHDTV
[07:31:04] MonMotha: be aware that there is a standard for encrypting the firewire outputs on those things. Most cableco's just have it turned off
[07:31:12] mchou: and all I get are the locals
[07:31:16] MonMotha: ah, the STBs are like $20/mo here
[07:31:24] MonMotha: without digital service
[07:31:36] mchou: MonMotha: where you live?
[07:31:43] MonMotha: north of Indianapolis
[07:31:49] MonMotha: they want you to buy digital cable. that's $25/mo
[07:31:50] m13a8: MonMotha: can you give me a model number on an AirStar? i searched newegg and only came up with server parts
[07:31:51] mchou: MonMotha: who is cableco?
[07:31:54] MonMotha: Bright House
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[07:32:41] AlienBaby: hello?
[07:32:51] MonMotha: they did digital cable for $1/mo for a while, box rental was $24.99/mo
[07:33:05] mchou: m13a8: trust me, you really have not much to lose if you give firewire a shot
[07:33:26] AlienBaby: any ideas on the release schedule for .19.1?
[07:33:34] mchou: MonMotha: link me to your cable provider home page with your zip
[07:33:40] Dagmar: Just keep in mind that firewire (regardless of the fact that it's not coming from the firewire hardware) adds a bit to your CPU load, because there's a LOT of freaking data coming down
[07:33:44] MonMotha: mchou: I knew there was a reason I ignored you...
[07:33:45] m13a8: mchou: i realize that, but i don't think i have room over here for a cable box
[07:34:18] mchou: MonMotha: huh??
[07:34:38] mchou: Dagmar: lol. more bullshit
[07:35:07] mchou: Dagmar: the only 'load' firewire presents is pci bus load.
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[07:35:11] Dagmar: mchou: Get over yourself, dude. The data that comes over firewire compared to what comes out of a Hauppage tuner is more like drinking from the fire hose
[07:35:22] mchou: no different than writing data to disk
[07:35:32] Dagmar: Either read what I say or ignore it.
[07:35:54] MonMotha: if you have digital cable, you should probably try to use the firewire output on your box (or use a PCI tuner if you want the unencrypted stuff). The quality is MUCH better than capturing even svideo
[07:35:55] Dagmar: I was pretty clear about the load NOT coming from the firewire hardware
[07:36:05] mchou: Dagmar: 'Just keep in mind that firewire (regardless of the fact that it's not coming from the firewire hardware) adds a bit to your CPU load, because there's a LOT of freaking data coming down'
[07:36:11] MonMotha: however, I don't like having STBs sitting next to my pretty little Myth box
[07:36:17] Dagmar: "(regardless of the fact that it's not coming from the firewire hardware)"
[07:36:21] m13a8: so you think my best bet would be a hauppage pvr-150?
[07:36:28] mchou: Dagmar: tell me how firewire adds to CPU load
[07:36:30] Dagmar: m13a8: If you're on the fence about it, then yes
[07:36:32] MonMotha: and I don't care about Discovery HD enough to pay for digital cable
[07:36:49] Dagmar: mchou: "(regardless of the fact that it's not coming from the firewire hardware)"
[07:36:58] Dagmar: mchou: http://www.rif.org
[07:37:13] mchou: Dagmar: lol
[07:37:16] m13a8: i'm kindof hesitant about forking out this much cash (i'm running dry) but i'll have to take it into concideration
[07:37:41] mchou: Dagmar: you still havent said how "massive data" translates to CPU load
[07:38:02] Dagmar: Because it has to DO something with that. Throughput *matters*.
[07:38:12] mchou: Dagmar: if I d/l 100Mbps over inet, how much cpu load does that take up?
[07:38:23] Dagmar: mchou: How should I care? You're just trolling.
[07:38:40] mchou: Dagmar: and keep in mind HDTV is NOWHERE near 100Mbps
[07:38:55] mchou: Dagmar: how is this a troll?
[07:39:05] Dagmar: I should think that would be readily obvious.
[07:39:09] mchou: I'm presenting you an analogy
[07:39:11] Dagmar: How many people put you on ignore per day, dude?
[07:39:38] MonMotha: m13a8: the card I was referring to (for digital, which probably isn't what you want from the sound of it) seems commonly known as the AirStar2. It uses the "flexcop" chipset
[07:39:44] MonMotha: I don't know much else about it. I have a pcHDTV
[07:39:52] mchou: Dagmar: pparently only bullshitters like yourself who cant defend their bullshit
[07:39:59] MonMotha: I also have a PVR-150 and a WinTV Go (old model, bt878, before they changed chipsets)
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[07:40:01] mchou: apparently*
[07:40:04] ** Dagmar puts mchou on ignore. **
[07:40:13] Dagmar: Morons.
[07:41:15] m13a8: i really have to go, but thanks for the help :)
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[07:42:33] MonMotha: getting all my hardware working is a...pain
[07:42:47] MonMotha: I also have a firewire card, but the box I got in Terre Haute didn't support it :(
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[07:42:58] mchou: MonMotha: huh??
[07:43:07] mchou: MonMotha: what STB was this?
[07:43:34] Dagmar: That's a bummer. We've not had any problems getting Comcast to cough up replacement boxes here for the iDig users
[07:44:07] Dagmar: Of the five people I've talked to around here, one of them actually got the box with the firewire port on it from the install tech. Didn't even have to go down to the office to trade it out
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[07:47:03] MonMotha: Dagmar: the system in Terre Haute/Brazil, IN is very old
[07:47:14] MonMotha: it's actually exempt from the new regulations because it's < 450MHz
[07:47:16] Dagmar: Sounds like it
[07:47:18] MonMotha: (or hatever the limit is)
[07:47:26] MonMotha: they do digital so they can cram more channels in
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[07:48:03] mchou: MonMotha: less than 450Mhz?
[07:48:11] mchou: MonMotha: damn, no wonder
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[07:55:21] Dagmar: Basically that's why most of them go digital, afaik. It gives them more space (figuratively speaking) to start shipping out on-demand channels
[07:57:04] mchou: MonMotha: according to the Indiannapolis rates digital receiver with remote is $6.95/mo. http://www.indy.rr.com/indybhn/ps_packages.asp#rates
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[07:57:48] mchou: MonMotha: a cablecard is $3
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[08:00:06] mchou: MonMotha: I dont see how $7 goes to $20 per mon.
[08:10:03] MonMotha: Dagmar: they don't do VoD, they barely have room for the 200 channels or so that they run (not even, it's more like 175 I think)
[08:15:14] Dagmar: Well, if they're just scraping along like you imply, then it's not suprising they don't have the infrastructure necessary to do VoD
[08:18:19] MonMotha: they don't do HD, either
[08:18:30] MonMotha: it's a long run to service the area I was in
[08:18:35] MonMotha: so upgrading it would be very expensive
[08:24:02] ** watson540 is in southern indiana **
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[08:38:09] Gumby: hrm, if my EPG text is super small where might I go to change that?
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[08:59:45] dorel__: i didnt know mythtv supported picture-in-picture mode... how do i get it going?
[09:00:31] MonMotha: dorel__: look up the hotkey, and you'll need multiple tuners, of course
[09:04:58] qu0zl: dorel__ if you're using xvmc it doesn't support PiP though, unless they've recently fixed that
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[09:15:11] MonMotha: darn, so no HD PIP :(
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[09:21:36] dscoular`: PiP is overrated ;)
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[09:30:40] dorel__: no idea whats xvmc
[09:30:45] qu0zl: yeah i wouldn't trade xvmc for pip anyway
[09:31:00] qu0zl: it's accelerated mpeg decoding
[09:31:13] qu0zl: offloads a lot of the work from the cpu to a nvidia gpu or a via unichrome chipset
[09:31:22] dorel__: uhmm
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[09:31:30] dorel__: can i put whatever i want in that PiP?
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[09:31:35] dorel__: like just some random movie from hd?
[09:31:38] dscoular`: dorel__, no
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[09:31:55] qu0zl: ahh you want PiP, Pornography in Picture
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[09:32:02] qu0zl: that's getting added in .20
[09:32:05] qu0zl: :)
[09:32:12] dscoular`: dorel__, at the moment you can only have livetv from the other tuner.
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[09:41:22] dorel__: ahh ok
[09:45:28] hashbang: anyone here a maintainer for mythgame?
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[09:48:46] dorel__: maybe try in #mythtv
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[09:53:51] ** hashbang files a trac ticket **
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[10:01:41] MonMotha: is it possible to create new transcode profiles?
[10:01:45] MonMotha: or are you limited to the stock 5?
[10:03:19] Merlin83b: At the moment I think you have to hack new ones into the db manually – ie. no pretty interface to create them.
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[10:07:05] MonMotha: ok, but it will understand things if you hack the DB (which I'm no stranger to doing...I think I set half my stuff up that way)
[10:11:16] MonMotha: I guess it seems to
[10:15:52] MonMotha: hum, mythtv also needs to learn a few things about aspect ratio
[10:15:58] MonMotha: everybody looks very skinny on my 5/4 monitor
[10:16:30] MonMotha: it seems to handle 16:9 and 4:3, but nothing else
[10:16:44] stuarta: sometimes aspect ratio detection doesn't work. use 'w' to cycle through them
[10:16:48] MonMotha: oddly enough, it gets things right when playing widescreen content
[10:16:51] MonMotha: no, that's not the issue
[10:16:52] Merlin83b: Almost like it's designed to work on a tv ;-)
[10:16:58] MonMotha: the issue is that it thinks my monitor is 4:3, not 5:$
[10:17:00] MonMotha: 5:4
[10:17:08] MonMotha: which means it's effectively stretching 4:3 content vertically SLIGHTLY
[10:17:11] MonMotha: just enough to be noticable
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[10:17:24] MonMotha: Merlin83b: indeed, but some modern TVs aren't ACTUALLY 16:9, they're 16:10
[10:17:28] MonMotha: mostly plasmas
[10:17:58] Zider: 5:4? never heard of :P
[10:18:07] MonMotha: I guess I could go see what would be required to hack real aspect ratio support in
[10:18:11] MonMotha: Zider: 1280x1024 is 5:4
[10:18:26] MonMotha: and my monitor is physically 5:4 (square pixels)
[10:18:39] MonMotha: and yes, my X DPI setting is correct :)
[10:18:44] Zider: I guess mine is too then.. it's 1280x1024
[10:18:56] ** stuarta uses 1280x1024 and doesn't have long people **
[10:19:05] MonMotha: well, some LCDs are 1280x1024 by are physically 4:3 (they have non-square pixel)
[10:19:16] MonMotha: and the stretching is just bad enough to be barely noticable to me
[10:19:28] Zider: I don't notice anything luckily ;)
[10:19:32] MonMotha: most people wouldn't notice I bet, thena gain, most people don't notice 4:3 being stretch to 16:9 (which is bad enough that I won't watch it)
[10:20:12] Zider: I'm used to 4:3 -> 16:9 stretch on my tv.. doesn't bother me.. :D
[10:20:39] MonMotha: I seriously won't watch that
[10:20:41] MonMotha: it looks HORRIBLE
[10:20:52] Zider: nah, not that bad imo
[10:20:59] MonMotha: that's what the barn-door setting is for (though if you have a plasma, I can understand wanting to avoid the burn in)
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[10:21:05] MonMotha: see, I never understood how people could stand it
[10:21:22] MonMotha: it makes everything look wrong, all so you can use those extra few inches of your TV incorrectly
[10:21:24] Zider: "barn-door setting"? ;D
[10:21:47] MonMotha: barn-door = opposite of letterboxing, putting black bars on the sides of 4:3 content to pad it out to 16:9
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[10:22:33] Zider: but that makes the display small :P
[10:22:38] MonMotha: and correct looking
[10:22:45] MonMotha: I'd rather my video be correct than big
[10:22:57] Zider: I prefer big :P
[10:22:57] MonMotha: then again, I'm also the nut who actually sets the color temperature on his displays
[10:23:10] MonMotha: well, why not just get a flashlight and shine it on the wall from across the room
[10:23:10] Zider: I only have 32", I wanna use it as much as possible :P
[10:23:13] MonMotha: it's a "projector"
[10:23:22] MonMotha: hey, it's big :)
[10:23:26] Zider: no :P
[10:23:37] MonMotha: stretched 4:3 to 16:9 looks THAT BAD to me
[10:23:45] MonMotha: it's intolerable. I'd rather just not watch
[10:23:55] Zider: actually I'm thinking of getting a projector.. but they're all so expensive.. and noisy.. :P
[10:24:28] MonMotha: you can get 1024x768 for $800 that's pretty quiet
[10:24:33] MonMotha: though that won't even get you 720p
[10:24:49] Zider: resolution doesn't bother me much.. but I want widescreen :P
[10:25:00] MonMotha: then letterbox it down
[10:25:14] MonMotha: you'll get something between 480p and 720p
[10:25:16] Zider: and $800 is more than my entire income for one month :P
[10:25:31] MonMotha: is your widescreen HD?
[10:25:57] MonMotha: 32" HD widescreens cost more than $800
[10:25:59] Zider: not that I know.. but it does take upto 1024x768 resolution from the pc..
[10:26:05] MonMotha: then it's somewhat HD
[10:26:11] MonMotha: though if it's scaling it DOWN, it's not HD
[10:26:20] Zider: it didn't say HD when I bought it 18 months ago :P
[10:26:29] MonMotha: some of those things will happily take 1024x768 and proceed to scale it down to 640x480 (and make it look horrible)
[10:26:55] MonMotha: I try to avoid scaling since it just introduces artifacts (actually, Myth is remarkably bad about that...)
[10:27:03] MonMotha: myth wants to scale everything
[10:27:28] MonMotha: most people don't run HD, though, so they don't notice since they have to scale everything anyway
[10:27:55] Zider: I don't see any real problem in 1024 anyway.. altho I only run 800x600 on the mythbox due to crappy gfx card
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[10:36:01] MonMotha: heh, I do 1280x720 since that's what my TV runs
[10:36:10] MonMotha: I have a monitor that I run at 1920x1440 60Hz interlace
[10:36:24] MonMotha: letterbox off the top and bottom to get 1080i
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[10:40:20] Zider: 60Hz? I hope that's a TFT
[10:44:20] MonMotha: nope. CRT
[10:44:21] MonMotha: kinda flickery
[10:44:41] MonMotha: I can get 72Hz out of it, but I'd rather the fields line up with the content
[10:44:45] Zider: "kinda".. hah.. stroboscope! :D
[10:44:59] MonMotha: I have an arcade monitor I also run at 1920x1080i, but it's only 4:3 so I have to crop
[10:45:14] MonMotha: it doesn't flicker nearly as much since the phosphors are like TV phosphors with longer decay times
[10:45:43] Zider: I almost think my TFT flickers.. :P
[10:45:53] scopeuk: lol
[10:46:17] scopeuk: i seam to rememerb fone of my friends runingthere tft at 100hz and al it did was induce headaches
[10:46:53] Zider: mine only takes 75Hz.. ;)
[10:47:16] MonMotha: you should run it at the native refresh
[10:47:30] scopeuk: you hsould run tfts at native everything
[10:47:32] MonMotha: if you run it higher, it has to drop and duplicate frames, which can induce jitter and things that look like flicker
[10:47:41] MonMotha: well true
[10:47:48] MonMotha: or you can exactly half res if you have reason to
[10:47:57] scopeuk: heh ive sen tfts with big warning messages in red if you dont
[10:47:58] MonMotha: that's a lossless scaling operation since you just take each pixel and blow it up to 2x2
[10:48:06] Zider: what is "native" then? it takes 60–75 :P
[10:48:12] MonMotha: probably 75
[10:48:14] scopeuk: look it up
[10:48:17] MonMotha: it's probably upscaling 60
[10:48:19] scopeuk: will be somewhere in there
[10:48:20] MonMotha: but yes, look it up
[10:48:34] MonMotha: and for some stupid reason my DDC is broken
[10:48:36] Zider: all I've seen is a range
[10:48:47] scopeuk: what monitor is it Zider?
[10:49:05] Zider: LG Flatron L1715S
[10:49:22] MonMotha: some run at 60 and handle 72 for VGA text mode
[10:49:27] MonMotha: so you have to look it up
[10:49:40] ** stuarta has 2 of those & loves em **
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[10:54:52] [Yatta]: has anyone compiled myth 0.19 mythplugins??? i'm gettign a error when i make
[10:55:15] [Yatta]: main.cpp:88: error: ‘class MythContext’ has no member named ‘ActivateSettingsCache’
[10:55:41] ** scopeuk wishes he could afford a tft right now **
[10:55:44] ** scopeuk sulks **
[10:56:05] ** stuarta just ordered *another* 300Gb of disk... **
[10:56:12] scopeuk: lol
[10:56:27] scopeuk: thats the problem this box needs more storage before i go for fancy things liek monitors
[10:57:13] stuarta: this is more a backup disk, so I can rebuild my system...
[10:57:21] dorel__: does anyone know of a command line tool to get info like bitrate/codec/etc for a given media file?
[10:57:33] stuarta: ffmpeg
[10:57:48] scopeuk: plan is to get a job (after i finsih my exams) then the first 200 quid is going on 2 250 gig hdds and a memory upgrade
[10:58:24] stuarta: by then you'll be able to afford 400Gb drive
[10:58:46] scopeuk: exams are done in aroud na month
[10:58:47] qu0zl: anybody here using a freenas.org device as they're mythtv file system?
[10:59:06] qu0zl: a pesky colleague mentioned them today and now i want to build one :(
[10:59:12] scopeuk: i dont knwo about freenas spacificaly but there are quite a few people that use nfs
[10:59:23] scopeuk: qu0zl they hit slashdot last night
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[10:59:34] qu0zl: as the tv cache right? not just for pre-recorded stuff
[10:59:35] stuarta: that explains the lag...
[10:59:37] Juski: afternoon
[10:59:41] qu0zl: afternoon
[10:59:42] Zider: the first I'll buy if I get a job is a 750GB seagate <3
[10:59:43] dorel__: hmm, ffmpeg
[10:59:45] dorel__: let me test it
[10:59:46] scopeuk: afternoon
[10:59:55] stuarta: afternoon. (it's afternoon already???)
[11:00:03] qu0zl: heh yeah and 2 seconds
[11:00:07] scopeuk: Zider those segatesa are sweet but i only have sata 1
[11:00:13] Zider: scopeuk: me too
[11:00:14] scopeuk: stuarta 12 bang on here
[11:00:29] scopeuk: its tempting to get a stat 2 controler but there about as much as a replacement motehr board
[11:00:40] scopeuk: by which point ill end up buildign a new system
[11:00:49] stuarta: damn, freenas.org is slashdotted...
[11:00:54] Zider: I don't really need sata2, sata1 is enough for me
[11:01:00] Zider: at least right now :D
[11:01:11] scopeuk: im a performance hogand load times hack me off (this isent my myth box)
[11:01:21] scopeuk: im on ide currently
[11:01:27] [Yatta]: so no clue on that compiling error???
[11:01:34] Zider: scopeuk: you mean pata?
[11:01:34] scopeuk: heh mighttry my main pc as a myth box
[11:01:41] scopeuk: yes pata
[11:01:49] scopeuk: eg usig nthe ide connection
[11:02:10] Zider: sata and pata is both ide :P
[11:02:30] stuarta: they just swing different ways....
[11:02:30] scopeuk: fair enoughheh my missudner standing then
[11:02:30] Zider: aaaaanyways
[11:02:41] scopeuk: always refered to em as ide and sata conecntions the two differnt sockets
[11:03:00] Zider: ide is just an older name for ata, but it means the same thing.. :)
[11:03:42] scopeuk: heh spose it doesent help when all the shoppign sites refer to em as ide and sata
[11:03:53] scopeuk: always thought it refered to pata
[11:03:55] scopeuk: of well
[11:06:19] scopeuk: hmmthen again ebuy thinkg that a 160 gig drive belongs in the 200 and over catagory
[11:06:51] scopeuk: they rearly ruinded there site when they upgraded it
[11:08:38] dorel__: thanks stuarta, its ffplay :):
[11:09:09] Zider: here in sweden, 300GB and 320GB has the lowest price/gb
[11:09:38] stuarta: same in uk
[11:10:21] Zider: switching my 3x 200GB for a 750GB probably saves a bunch of energy tho.. and space.. ;)
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[11:10:53] Zider: ..and noise.. :P
[11:11:48] scopeuk: heh
[11:12:00] scopeuk: 250 gigs are 0 quid now on over clockers
[11:12:03] scopeuk: 60
[11:12:04] scopeuk: *
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[11:12:22] Juski: 0 quid? gimme all they got!
[11:12:29] scopeuk: lol me 2
[11:12:36] scopeuk: is did correct the typo
[11:13:01] scopeuk: yet the 750s are 300 quid
[11:13:13] Juski: they're newer tech, that's why
[11:13:19] scopeuk: or 200 quid for the 500
[11:13:38] stuarta: it's about 70 for 300
[11:13:40] scopeuk: i kow the 750s are perpendicular
[11:13:52] scopeuk: 75 for a 350 baracuda
[11:14:00] Zider: get perpendiculaaaar *sings*
[11:14:00] scopeuk: 320*
[11:14:05] Juski: lol
[11:14:19] scopeuk: heh the 300 is more expensive that the 320
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[11:15:37] scopeuk: i hate how muchwe get ripped of for componants in the uk
[11:15:44] scopeuk: then agai nwe get ripped off for everything
[11:15:46] Juski: I was offerred a 1GB USB stick for £13 on saturday
[11:16:00] scopeuk: not bad
[11:16:41] Juski: that was at a backstreet computer place
[11:16:54] scopeuk: back of truck discount?
[11:17:06] Juski: nah
[11:17:29] scopeuk: k
[11:17:31] scopeuk: and cool
[11:17:47] Juski: they must have to sell a lot to make real money though
[11:18:02] scopeuk: the "local" computer sho here 9only non chain store) is usualy double the price of the internet
[11:18:04] scopeuk: if nto more
[11:18:13] scopeuk: only things worth getting are the network cables
[11:18:20] scopeuk: although even those area little expensive
[11:18:58] stuarta: http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/
[11:19:18] stuarta: the right price for cables...
[11:19:20] Zider: I wonder how much you could squeeze in a 5,25" full-height hard drive with perpendicularity. :P
[11:19:29] Juski: buy firewire cables on there & flog em on ebay
[11:19:34] Juski: or HDMI ones :-P
[11:19:40] scopeuk: i needa 4 pin to 4 pin firewire
[11:19:49] scopeuk: Zider a fukload
[11:20:02] Zider: :D
[11:20:04] Juski: say look! £50 cheaper than PCWorld & currys!
[11:20:09] scopeuk: surely there is a market for it
[11:20:12] scopeuk: hell id buy one
[11:20:37] scopeuk: Juski www.weripyouoffforfun.com is £50 quid cheaper than those two
[11:22:44] Juski: heh
[11:23:05] Juski: stuarta: did you manage to make head or tail of what went wrong with that scan o mine?
[11:23:36] stuarta: I believe I need to add support for reading back the tuning params from the card.
[11:24:26] stuarta: I suspect your card is locking onto a mux when told to tune at an offset (ie. it's got great fine tuning)
[11:24:47] Juski: who'd have thought eh? :-)
[11:25:02] laga: re
[11:25:13] stuarta: but we use the freq we told it to lock onto (this is my best guess atm)
[11:25:41] Juski: stuarta: to fix that might be good for all the people who use leadtek dvb-t cards – or indeed any others cloned from the conexant ref design
[11:26:13] stuarta: it'll fix the problems with lyngsat too, they lie in their NITs (as does the UK now....)
[11:26:30] Juski: hi laga. still no delivery yet :-/
[11:26:42] Juski: (and the tracking no. I was given is bogus)
[11:26:44] stuarta: lyngsat is worse, the get the FEC wrong....
[11:27:08] Juski: wah? that's bad. why bother having a fscking standard then?
[11:27:58] stuarta: yep. did you see the BBC excuse for why they "broke" the NIT here?
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[11:28:12] Juski: stuarta: I think I did but I can't remember
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[11:28:57] stuarta: some STB implementations couldn't handle the NIT properly as it was growing in size, so they "broke" the NIT to compensate...
[11:29:25] stuarta: should make the STB manufacturers fix their crap....
[11:29:54] Juski: hmmmm.
[11:30:11] Juski: they're gonna piss off all the old ondigi STB owners anyway in a few years so why not? ;-)
[11:30:30] ** Merlin83b is one of those ondigi STB owners. **
[11:30:58] stuarta: plus most STB do blind scans anyway, and ignore most of the NIT info....
[11:31:28] ** stuarta feels sorry for Merlin83b **
[11:31:30] Juski: Merlin83b: there'll be no campaign for "are you ready for 8k mode?"
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[11:31:55] Merlin83b: Hehe
[11:32:12] Merlin83b: If livetv worked on my myth box I would no longer have the ondigi box. But it doesn't.
[11:32:16] Juski: I can't even imagine the uproar that there's gonna be
[11:32:44] stuarta: Merlin83b: just don't ever try to press the red button on that box....
[11:32:58] Merlin83b: Heh, I rarely do because it's so painfully slow.
[11:33:05] Juski: Merlin83b: last night I played with the svn machine & noticed I'd left livetv on all night
[11:33:12] Merlin83b: Ouch.
[11:33:15] Merlin83b: Big buffer fun.
[11:33:32] Juski: nah. it was left on a radio channel
[11:33:40] Merlin83b: Ah
[11:33:50] stuarta: though it starts a new buffer for a new show, so it wouldn't be toooooo bad...
[11:33:52] Merlin83b: I need to get up to date and then hassle stuarta about livetv or something.
[11:34:00] stuarta: :-P
[11:34:12] Merlin83b: :-)
[11:34:16] Juski: I like the way the channel changing works now.. if you're on the same mux it doesn't retune
[11:34:19] ** stuarta is busy valgrinding.... **
[11:34:22] Merlin83b: That is good.
[11:34:32] Merlin83b: I'd like it if it would tune in the first place, however.
[11:34:50] stuarta: Does it record okay though?
[11:34:53] Juski: .. and even when it has to retune it's like < 3 secs – almost as fast as using a pvr card
[11:35:01] Juski: stuarta: AFAICT
[11:35:06] Merlin83b: Yeah, records fine, just unusable for livetv atm.
[11:35:31] stuarta: Juski: sorry, that was for Merlin
[11:35:50] Juski: with a faster CPU & not needing xvmc I could happily use livetv if I was so inclined
[11:36:06] laga: xvmc ain't that bad ;)
[11:36:09] Juski: before the changes there was _no way_ I'd even try it
[11:36:31] laga: what changes? the mythtv-vid branch?
[11:36:35] Juski: yeh but it takes my 800mhz box a while to start up livetv
[11:36:40] Merlin83b: Like I said, I need to update. I think I'm past that stuff but to be fair I should update before I complain.
[11:36:48] Juski: laga: general svn changes
[11:36:49] scopeuk: Juski my bet is not nearly as long as my 433
[11:36:53] ** stuarta heads off to have bangers n mash for lunch... **
[11:37:02] laga: Juski: ah, k
[11:37:06] Juski: what's the mythtv-vid branch about?
[11:37:16] Juski: xvmc fixes or something?
[11:37:24] ** Merlin83b goes for lunch, too. **
[11:37:29] Juski: enjoy!
[11:37:30] laga: Juski: mythtv-vid seems like danielk's playground for video playback stuff. mostly xvmc changes, i beliebe
[11:37:33] laga: believe*
[11:37:45] laga: Merlin83b: i hope you find more food than me ;)
[11:37:49] Whyvas: i can't seem to get a weather listing, it times out even when I try to go in the weather setup
[11:37:52] Whyvas: using knoppmyth
[11:37:54] Whyvas: any ideas?
[11:38:20] Juski: laga: seen this? http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php . . . p;highlight=
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[11:39:12] laga: Juski: sounds nice. i hope he also posted it on the ML
[11:40:09] rawdlite: no i didnt
[11:40:15] laga: Juski: that flowchart seems weird. talks about mythburn-ui and so on
[11:40:25] ** Juski is stunned to find out #knoppmyth exists **
[11:40:56] Juski: "Don't forget, you can also find help on irc.freenode.net #knoppmyth"
[11:41:13] laga: heh
[11:41:20] laga: hi rawdlite :)
[11:41:28] rawdlite: laga: hi
[11:41:30] laga: rawdlite: you should definitely post it on the ML.
[11:41:37] Juski: rawdlite: what laga said. both times ;-)
[11:41:45] ** laga da man **
[11:41:47] laga: anyways
[11:42:23] rawdlite: ok, do i need to set up an account for the ML, i use to read the via rss
[11:42:38] Juski: I had a go at mytharchive last night again... this time it replexed the dvb recording just fine but failed making the menus
[11:42:41] laga: rawdlite: why are you gonna query external database for "filmdata"? in a properly set up environment, mythtv and mythvideo should both provide metadata for recordings and normal video files, respectively
[11:43:37] rawdlite: laga: 1 the solution is not only for mythtv recordings
[11:43:46] Juski: laga: I'd guess because imdb et al usually contain more (or better) info than the programme guide
[11:43:57] rawdlite: 22. imdb has more and accurate information
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[11:44:21] laga: rawdlite: right. that's why i mentioned mythvideo, too. which already does imdb, or ofdb, or whatever
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[11:44:28] Juski: and in the case of UK programme data, a film description is a highly opinionated mini review
[11:44:31] rawdlite: 3: alternative artwork
[11:44:57] laga: k. good hacking :)
[11:45:11] Juski: 'description' != film plot outline ;-)
[11:45:26] scopeuk: without enough detail to spoil it
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[11:45:46] scopeuk: i seam to remember one of the tv descriptions i read gave away the whole plot includignthe twist
[11:46:11] scopeuk: wow now theres somethign ive never seen before a 0 load average on my box
[11:46:14] Juski: scopeuk: alison wasshername ruined the ending of last weekend's Dr Who episode
[11:47:03] ** scopeuk notices mythfilldabase is not working again **
[11:47:16] scopeuk: im about ready to give up on that
[11:47:18] scopeuk: i rearly am
[11:47:45] scopeuk: no matter how many times i configure it it stop working again
[11:47:57] ** Juski browses the Zenega user forum **
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[11:48:50] laga: Juski: i hope i get mine today. wrote an email to the seller yesterday, no answer yet :/
[11:49:28] Juski: I just hope mine comes full stop!
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[11:49:43] scopeuk: ithink i have a hatred for xmltv
[11:49:44] Juski: that forum has to be the worst organised I have ever seen
[11:49:48] laga: Juski: heh
[11:55:43] scopeuk: any chance of havign the xmltvid made wide enough to use
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[11:56:37] Juski: bah where the hell are all the pinout details I found?
[11:56:44] Fremean: I appear to have lost all volume control
[11:56:48] Fremean: even alsamixer )c:
[11:56:50] laga: Juski: in the wiki.
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[11:57:15] Fremean: I can litterally mute all my controlls with alsamixer and still it booms out
[11:57:22] Juski: aha!! thanks laga
[11:57:31] Fremean: I kmow it's something I"ve messed up while setting up my spdif out
[11:57:38] scopeuk: Fremean you sure your working on the right device?
[11:57:55] Fremean: only one in the box
[11:58:40] Fremean: alsamixer won't accept anything other then -c0 so yep
[11:58:50] scopeuk: hmm im not sure how differently spdif is treated
[11:59:32] Fremean: I hate working with alsa to get spdif up.... It shouldn't even be working the way I've set it up... and it wouldn't work when setup properly
[11:59:45] Fremean: might upgrade my kernel and install new alsa
[12:00:13] Juski: oh good all these cables can be standard IDC pitch (yay!)
[12:00:36] Fremean: last time I set it up...
[12:00:42] Fremean: it worked fine
[12:00:47] Fremean: hehe, atm it's completely messed up
[12:05:45] Dagmar: I think I see a need for a documentation update
[12:06:02] Dagmar: When it talks about running ntp to set the date, it leaves out the really IMPORTANT reason why
[12:06:13] Dagmar: Your computer *may* record some really stupid shit.
[12:07:23] Dagmar: I just had a conversation with my housemate about his deplorable taste in programming. Heh
[12:07:48] Dagmar: Turns out the clock was hellishly off because I was still working on the box when he set the programs to record. Heh
[12:08:40] Fremean: round these parts
[12:08:50] Fremean: it don't matter how accurate your clock is
[12:09:01] Fremean: they put what they want on when they want it on
[12:09:03] Juski: there's another reason ntp is importtant
[12:09:13] Juski: the recordedmarkup table
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[12:09:37] Fremean: channel 10 runs constantly 10–20 minutes late, channel 7 runs 5–10 minutes early, channel 9 will run from 10 minutes early to 20 minutes late
[12:11:01] Dagmar: The fun part was the look on his face when I showed him what it *did* record
[12:11:29] Dagmar: His response was "Did hippies break into the LAN and start using the thing?"
[12:12:43] Dagmar: Not one but three extremely dope-centric things.
[12:17:27] Fremean: hehehe
[12:17:42] Fremean: I've tried everything and can't get the volume working
[12:17:53] Fremean: I've had LOTS of troubles with spdif in the past...but this is a first
[12:18:20] laga: spdif passthrough? can you actually adjust the volume of that?
[12:19:24] Fremean: I'm not using tha ac3 spdif passthrough
[12:19:29] Fremean: but yes, I could b efore
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[12:25:47] Juski: I adjust the volume of spdif playback on my amplifier – I don't want any crappy software munging it up
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[12:27:14] Fremean: right now... I'm playing an mp3 through it
[12:27:20] Fremean: I SHOULD be able to control the volume of the pcm
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[12:28:10] Juski: ugh I have to make a case against using CE HDDs in our kit here at work. apparently they 'turn down' the error correction.. great idea when you need 100% data integrity :-/
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[12:35:30] hashbang: Juski: CE?
[12:36:17] stuarta: European Certification
[12:36:36] stuarta: Juski: wouldn't that affect the certification of the unit as a whole?
[12:37:09] hashbang: stuarta: that's what I was thinking. But why would CE have any impact on error correction?
[12:38:56] stuarta: dunno
[12:39:12] Juski: CE == consumer electronics ;-)
[12:39:30] stuarta: ahh, ie, the cheap ones?
[12:39:32] Juski: 'tuned' HDDs for consumer boxes
[12:40:38] laga: omfg! my poor mythtv box.
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[12:41:42] Fremean: oh well
[12:41:45] Fremean: give it up
[12:41:57] Fremean: I'll just have to get batteries for my amp remote
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[12:43:54] Whyvas: i can't seem to get a weather listing, it times out even when I try to go in the weather setup
[12:43:55] hashbang: Juski: ah, eek!
[12:43:56] Whyvas: using knoppmyth
[12:43:57] Whyvas: any ideas?
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[12:44:15] ** hashbang didn't even know CE HDDs existed, but isn't really surprised. **
[12:44:50] stuarta: still doesn't explain why non CE disks are $$$$$$
[12:45:16] hashbang: conceivably, for PVR devices, they might even be a good thing. A single bit error probably won't affect an MPEG fatally, but a HDD that throws an ATA error will probably trigger warranty returns and the like.
[12:46:22] hashbang: Juski: what are you classing as CE-grade? Seagate 7200.9s? or something crappier?
[12:46:55] hashbang: oh, gawd, Maxtor...
[12:46:57] hashbang: figures
[12:47:46] ** stuarta is now vaguely concerned. **
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[12:51:47] Juski: hashbang: if a drive has got so bad it'd have to go off on its error correctin trip we may aswell give up on it anyway ;-)
[12:54:07] Juski: and yes (surprise) we wanna use the ce drives cos they're cheap
[12:56:29] psofa: something is very wrong here
[12:56:38] psofa: the backend doesnt respond
[12:56:50] psofa: QSocketDevice::readBlock: Invalid socket
[12:56:50] psofa: 2006-05–31 15:55:02.031 WriteStringList: Partial WriteStringList 0.
[12:56:50] psofa: QSocketNotifier: invalid socket 34 and type 'Read', disabling...
[12:57:09] psofa: and the frontend says
[12:57:10] psofa: 2006-05–31 15:56:12.137 ReadStringList timeout (quick).
[12:57:11] psofa: 2006-05–31 15:56:12.137 Unexpected response to MYTH_PROTO_VERSION:
[12:57:16] psofa: Oo
[12:59:51] hashbang: http://www.maxtor.com/portal/site/Maxtor/menu . . . ype=techDocs
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[13:00:15] hashbang: Juski: isn't that what PRML and EPRML are all about anyway?
[13:00:30] hashbang: Juski: "that's probably a 1, that's probably a 0..."
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[13:05:10] hashbang: http://www.seagate.com/products/consumer_electronics/ # seagate too
[13:05:32] ** stuarta is no longer vaguely worried. **
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[13:12:36] Juski: hashbang: I now officially couldn't care less. it's commercial suicide to use those drives IMHO. so we're going ahead anyway
[13:18:50] stuarta: those who make the decisions will have left with a big fat bonus before the sh1t hits the fan
[13:23:32] Juski: I'd laugh if it wasn't true ;-)
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[13:27:57] psofa: stuarta, ive got another info.I have a dvb-t card and a dvb-s one.The thing i told you about seems to only happen on the dvb-s card.Maybe its a tuning issue?
[13:29:54] stuarta: the fe crashes?
[13:30:08] psofa: yes
[13:30:49] stuarta: it's unlikely, but easily tested...
[13:31:05] psofa: ill do everything.im desperate :D
[13:31:38] stuarta: psofa: what version are you on currently
[13:32:24] psofa: 10069
[13:32:37] psofa: tried also 10065 and 9936
[13:33:14] stuarta: do you do anything special to trigger it?
[13:33:21] psofa: not really
[13:33:30] psofa: its happening randomly
[13:33:41] psofa: once i couldnt get it to crash for much time
[13:34:04] Juski: 10069 already? eep
[13:34:15] stuarta: 10072 :)
[13:34:32] stuarta: damn 10085
[13:34:50] Merlin83b: Compiling now :-)
[13:37:17] Juski: damn java, Great Plains & firefox :-/ crashy
[13:37:25] psofa: stuarta, it always happens while changing channels
[13:37:32] stuarta: ahh, thats okay, most of those changes were branch setups & merges....
[13:37:33] psofa: it seems to happen right after a lock
[13:37:59] stuarta: psofa: so, get lock & immediately change channel?
[13:38:11] psofa: nono
[13:38:20] psofa: i push ok to the channel browser
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[13:38:26] psofa: it seems to display the osd lock
[13:38:29] psofa: and then dies
[13:38:36] psofa: hmm
[13:38:37] Merlin83b: Okay, so the performance of my box may not have been helped by the fact that I've been doing debug builds for a while.
[13:38:47] psofa: now sth else.after some time of channel changes etc
[13:38:55] psofa: it gets somewhat crappy
[13:39:02] psofa: many ubderflows etc
[13:39:07] psofa: *under*
[13:39:31] stuarta: checked your dmesg's lately?
[13:44:19] psofa: its kind hard because of the damn messages coming of cx88[0]/2: [da6fa760/0] cx8802_buf_queue – first active
[13:44:31] psofa: which are ok according to the v4l people
[13:44:36] psofa: bbut actually now
[13:44:37] psofa: *no
[13:44:51] psofa: theres nothing worrying i can see
[13:45:01] stuarta: don't you use dvb on your cx88 card? i do
[13:45:04] Juski: oh hell i wish i'd never done that dmesg now
[13:45:09] Juski: cx22702_set_tps: Autodetecting – eh?
[13:45:42] stuarta: one of the reasons I need to find a newer kernel....
[13:48:30] psofa: ?
[13:48:32] psofa: yes
[13:48:58] psofa: but as i say dmesg was showing it in myth 0.19 also
[13:49:18] psofa: and the v4l people tell me this error doesnt mean sth bad
[13:49:47] Juski: I just googled on PT-P6–3M5-ST
[13:49:54] Juski: lol no I didn't
[13:50:07] psofa: and the cx88 is actually the dvb-t card which doesnt crash.The dvb-s card is the one that crashes
[13:50:07] Juski: anyway my dmesg clog is just a general debug message
[13:50:17] stuarta: I think it got changed to not spam the kernel log all the time.
[13:50:52] stuarta: anyway, interesting that only the dvb-s card makes it crash....
[13:51:13] psofa: maybe its just unstable and the -t card doesnt push it so much
[13:51:29] psofa: also when connecting a remote frontend
[13:51:41] psofa: it also crashes on dvb-s but differently
[13:52:07] psofa: this time it segfaults just right after saying an error occured in video
[13:52:12] psofa: and the backend either dies
[13:52:17] psofa: or becomes unresponsive
[13:53:02] stuarta: ah now unresponsive is different. there's a long running thread/ticket trying to track down just that issue
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[13:55:41] psofa: but it also happens only on my dvb-s card
[13:56:20] stuarta: that would have different timings, so it may be a race condition....
[13:56:53] psofa: what i know is that my dvn-t seems to tune slower
[13:56:56] psofa: *dvb
[13:57:04] ** Juski hides. race conditions are scary **
[13:58:22] stuarta: yup. they are evil.
[13:59:23] ** stuarta wonders if valgrind will tell him he's found the leak... **
[14:00:25] psofa: also non remote frontend says killed which as ive observed happens when something eats up memory and goes out of control
[14:00:42] hashbang: Juski: got any references on the error correction on CE drives; the key points in the stuff I was reading seemed to be 5400rpm vs. 7200rpm, fluid bearings for lower noise, and optimization for streaming (presumably rather than random access) performance
[14:00:45] psofa: not to mention that mythfe leaves me with 6megs of free ram
[14:01:45] janneg: psofa: with buffer and cache?
[14:02:01] psofa: ?
[14:02:23] psofa: 4100k buffers
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[14:02:29] psofa: 192220k cached
[14:02:36] hashbang: remember also that libmysqlclient will use memory for caching query responses, and that will show up in the memory usage of the application that's linked against it.
[14:02:45] psofa: thats what top says ive no idea what it is
[14:02:48] stuarta: psofa: that's about 200Mb free :)
[14:03:03] janneg: psofa: so you have nearly 200mb of "free" memory
[14:03:10] psofa: ah srry then
[14:03:14] hashbang: Mem: 515612k total, 501648k used, 13964k free, 24128k buffers
[14:03:14] hashbang: Swap: 2755136k total, 211896k used, 2543240k free, 237492k cached
[14:03:14] psofa: i ve no idea
[14:03:19] hashbang: ^ from my machine
[14:03:40] hashbang: mythfrontend is currently using 193m, with 81m resident and 22m shared.
[14:03:45] GreyFoxx: hashbang: Are you sure about that. I don't think so. The caching of the query/results occurs on the server end, nto the client
[14:03:51] hashbang: though I've seen it go upto 400-odd MB uses.
[14:03:55] psofa: 235m 149m 36m
[14:03:59] hashbang: GreyFoxx: yup, quite sure. :-)
[14:04:23] GreyFoxx: Until I have some real time to investigate I'm going to be doubtful :)
[14:04:59] hashbang: either that, or it's something analogous to lazy garbage collection
[14:05:02] GreyFoxx: Cause then cached client A would have no idea that client B updated the data on the server
[14:05:14] GreyFoxx: that I could :)
[14:05:17] GreyFoxx: err I could see
[14:05:37] GreyFoxx: all cache configuration is server side :)
[14:05:41] hashbang: either way, apps linked against and using libmysqlclient sometimes exhibit highly volatile memory usage
[14:06:04] hashbang: GreyFoxx: well, you could cache, but when doing a query, ask the server whether any of the tables you're interested in have changed.
[14:06:26] hashbang: GreyFoxx: if not, you can safely use your local cache, if so, throw the cache away and execute the query properly.
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[14:07:00] GreyFoxx: You could, but it doesn't. I just watched my client talk to the DB and the full contents of the results was sent even though the server had the query cached
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[14:07:36] GreyFoxx: And that method would slow things down on busy database if you had to ask first since "most" queries are lighting fast
[14:08:01] ** GreyFoxx looks out his windows and starts to daydream about going Kayaking **
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[14:21:04] Juski: hashbang: I don't know the specifics but they definitely change stuff in the firmware – like the seek algorithms, to make the drive quieter running
[14:21:52] Juski: some hdd manufacturers also make sure to balance the platters better, resulting in less vibration. WD drives can vary a _lot_ in terms of vibration
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[14:32:37] C4T3l: heelo woorld
[14:32:48] m13a8: hi
[14:32:53] m13a8: wait
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[14:32:57] world: hi
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[14:33:10] C4T3l: aha!
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[14:34:10] C4T3l: does anyone ever change the mythtv settings directly trough the database?
[14:34:18] C4T3l: ya know. for fun
[14:34:51] m13a8: not that i know of, i don't why i'm even still in this channel. i havn't used mythtv yet, gonna buy my tuner soon
[14:35:12] C4T3l: which kind
[14:35:25] m13a8: i'm gonna get a hauppauge pvr-150
[14:35:47] C4T3l: ahh. I have a pvr-250
[14:35:59] Juski: CT431: I sometimes do. I use either webmin or phpmyadmin – or when I feel brave just plain mysql commands
[14:36:03] qu0zl: C4T3l, you can change the settings directly through the database. You may even have to if you mess things up well enough :)
[14:36:23] C4T3l: i've messed things up several times
[14:36:44] Juski: me too, but I never broke anything cos I always back up before messing :-P
[14:37:02] C4T3l: I've become quite fond of the mysql CLI
[14:37:14] hashbang: Juski: sure, I'd expect acoustic noise to be a priority in CE-targeted drives, and seek algorithms would be part of that (also tuned for streaming performance, no doubt)
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[14:38:08] Juski: hashbang: I think the assumption is that seeks will be more sequential
[14:38:12] C4T3l: i havnt looked in a while but is the hauppauge pvr 250 still available?
[14:38:26] qu0zl: it's been basically replaced with the 150 C4T3l
[14:38:36] Juski: CT431: not really. anyway the pvr150 works juuust fine
[14:39:00] hashbang: Juski: yup, sounds reasonable for playing back a 2hr film. :-)
[14:39:01] C4T3l: hmm. has anyone used the 150&250 together in a setup?
[14:39:36] hashbang: Juski: combine that with some smart buffering algorithms, and you can even maintain decent performance for a number of streams simultaneously, even sourced from diverse parts of the disc.
[14:39:57] Juski: has anyone who asked a question like that ever used google first? :-P
[14:40:13] Juski: hashbang: yeh well it's of little use to us since we don't record 'streams'
[14:40:26] C4T3l: juski: :p
[14:40:27] Juski: 'we' meanining this ere company ;-)
[14:41:19] Juski: C4T3l: _should_ be fine.. I've seen they fixed problems in ivtv autodetecting the wrong card in the past
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[14:41:41] C4T3l: cool
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[14:50:00] Dagmar: MythLogBot: I thought I was losing my mind the first time I ripped a CD with that card under Windows using Creative Playcenter
[14:50:12] Dagmar: Fun nick completion
[14:50:30] Dagmar: MythLogBot: Normally an Athlon 900 isn't about to rip and encode a 73 minute CD in 14 minutes flat
[14:51:24] Dagmar: gb: I got so paranoid that it was hiding something that I ripped a different one, and when it said it was done I counted to five and then killed the power on the machine.
[14:51:45] Dagmar: gb: SUCKS that we dont' stand a chance of getting that particular use of the emu10k1 chip working under Linux
[14:52:06] Juski: about all it's good for IMHO
[14:52:18] m13a8: Dagmar: do you know if it's possible to use the hauppauge pvr-150 fm tuner in linux?
[14:52:36] Dagmar: Juski: I dunno man. I play Dungeons & Dragons Online and I get a kick out of applying the really demented voice filters to the voicechat in it
[14:52:43] Dagmar: m13a8: Should be.
[14:53:04] Dagmar: I've yet to actually find a sanely-designed radio app for Myth tho
[14:53:15] Juski: forget mythFM
[14:53:28] Dagmar: I just want it to put the frequency on the screen and not try to make believe that it's a webcast or something
[14:54:09] Juski: I can record DVB radio with SVN :-P
[14:54:46] Juski: no munging around with FM radio aerials near the PC (pccccccccchhhh)
[14:55:21] Dagmar: Enh... I only have a problem with that when I stupidly leave the cell phone near the computer
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[14:55:51] Dagmar: Hell, by now I really should have gotten around to doing some signal analysis on that annoying sound to see if I can maybe get some kinda caller-ID info on incomig cell calls
[14:55:54] Juski: a good argument against plastic PC cases too ;-)
[14:56:08] Dagmar: Oh the case isn't the problem
[14:56:30] Dagmar: If you don't have serious shielding around the amps in most PC speakers you get the most annoying chrrp-chrrp-chrrp when the cell phone starts to talk
[14:56:49] m13a8: this can not be right! i was looking on best buy's site because i'm going to a town that actually has one this weekend, but they list the hauppage pvr-150 at $200!!!
[14:56:49] Juski: pc speakers... yup I can believe that
[14:57:02] Dagmar: Cheap mics will pick it up really well, and I was thinking if there's any digital-stuff the phone is trying to say that I could probably decipher it
[14:57:27] stuarta: mine pickup the cell phone when they are "off". crappy soft off systems....
[14:57:36] Dagmar: m13a8: yep. This is why you generally want to buy stuff online. Brick and mortar stores are notorious for charging a premium for anything that might be considered esoteric hardware
[14:57:57] m13a8: yea, i definately tell best buy's lookin for a profit
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[14:59:50] qu0zl: m13a8, you could get a pvr500 for that i'd think
[15:00:11] m13a8: lol yea
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[15:03:53] feld: hey guys i need a hand
[15:03:59] feld: i moved and switched cable providers
[15:04:07] feld: and i cant get the program guide to work anymore
[15:04:49] feld: i went into mythtv setup and deleted the old setting and all channels. changed my provider in thet TV service, grabbed listings, filled database with --refresh-all, but i got nothing :(
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[15:08:53] Dagmar: feld: Well, if you're not partial to your database info you can always just blow the whole thing away and start over from mysql_install_db
[15:09:04] feld: 2006-05–31 10:07:53.557 GuideGrid: You don't have any channels defined in the database. Guide grid will have nothing to show you.
[15:09:14] feld: ^^ i just need to fix that :(
[15:09:25] stuarta: have you rescanned for channels?
[15:09:33] feld: i know they're there. they show in mythtv-setup in the channel section
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[15:10:03] feld: stuarta: yeah :(
[15:10:28] stuarta: but if you have moved, they will reference the old location and be wrong...
[15:10:45] feld: stuarta: i said i deleted my old provider info out of mythtv-setup
[15:10:48] feld: and recreated a new one
[15:11:01] feld: and used mythfilldatabase --refresh-all and the other setting that overwrites chan info =/
[15:11:22] feld: any other ideas?
[15:13:50] stuarta: did you use mythtv-setup to create the channels or just mythfilldatabase?
[15:15:24] feld: stuarta: i think i just found it
[15:15:38] feld: didnt have my new cable settings selected under my input
[15:15:48] feld: thats why it was failing i believe. 1 sec and i can confirm....
[15:17:19] Dagmar: I was wondering about that but didn't remember where that stuff was to say
[15:17:42] hashbang: are there any scripts for doing purging of the myth database? or is it supposed to just grow and grow?
[15:17:57] Dagmar: After awhile you get tired of saying "Change setting X" and seeing "Where's that?" and having to say "Damned if I know"
[15:18:11] feld: lol Dagmar
[15:18:16] Dagmar: I just kind of iteratively poke at all the setup menus untiL I stumble into what I was looking for
[15:18:19] feld: i hear ya there....
[15:18:19] Dagmar: They're a bloody mess
[15:18:29] feld: yeah they're pretty crazy
[15:19:18] feld: and we're fixed
[15:19:23] feld: that was a pain in the ass
[15:19:25] feld: how annoying ;)
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[15:24:05] psymin: Anyone able to recommend a decent 3.3v PCI tuner card? .. or a PCI v 3.0 compatable card?
[15:28:49] endless_us (endless_us!n=ker8wwf6@user-12lmovs.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[15:28:57] endless_us: hi all
[15:29:10] Merlin83b2 (Merlin83b2!n=Daniel@office.34sp.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[15:29:19] psymin: Hello, endless_us.
[15:30:33] endless_us: have problem compiling sasc-0.5. make: *** [PLUGINS/src/sc-0.5.3//libvdr-sc.so] Error 2 Any idea?
[15:30:46] qu0zl: psymin, isn't 3.3v the norm these days?
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[15:31:10] qu0zl: was it 5.0 -> 3.3, or 3.3->5.0?
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[15:31:28] psymin: qu0zl: I believe it is supposed to be. My impression is that it was 5 for the old stuff .. and 3.3 for the new stuff.
[15:31:40] qu0zl: thats what i thought too, though i hate trusting my memory :)
[15:31:41] psymin: qu0zl: But, I don't know of any Hauppauge cards that are 3.3 ..
[15:33:06] scopeuk: find one you liek then look at the spec and pray
[15:36:25] scopeuk: can any one here recomentd a uk site for netwokring gear (preferably cheap ;-))
[15:38:03] qu0zl: psymin, damned if i can see one via google. I'd mail the user list, a lot more people will see it than if you ask in here. though it'll be slower of course :)
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[15:38:50] psymin: I've found a couple cards that say they're 3.3 .. just hesitant to buy more cards that will end up unused =]
[15:39:03] qu0zl: usb no good to you?
[15:39:23] psymin: I'd prefer everything to be self-contained in this 1U colo server .. no stuff danglin off it.
[15:39:32] qu0zl: i can understand that
[15:41:20] ** Juski thought newer pci boards all had to be 3.3v **
[15:41:37] psymin: to be PCI 3.0 compliant .. yes
[15:41:42] scopeuk: heh scince when do haupauge get the "memos"
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[15:42:46] ** stuarta has a kernel oops to sort out before a new kernel can be used :( **
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[15:44:20] Zider: damn I'm pissed
[15:45:10] scopeuk: pissed angry or pissed drunk
[15:45:16] Zider: angry
[15:45:31] Zider: at the swedish f***ing police
[15:45:40] scopeuk: what have they done to you?
[15:46:03] Merlin83b: Stopped him f***ing?
[15:46:07] Zider: not to me.. but they raided thepiratebay.. confiscated all servers hosted at the same hosting company.. including several 100% legal sites.
[15:46:14] Zider: with illegal methods
[15:46:21] scopeuk: they raided pirate bay
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[15:46:30] ivor: wow.
[15:46:34] scopeuk: tose guys must be prety pissed there letters are normally ammusing reading
[15:46:50] scopeuk: that is jsut stupid
[15:46:55] scopeuk: yours one of the servers
[15:47:18] Zider: so now thepiratebay, swebits, port80, istheshit.net, fragbite and several others are down
[15:47:28] Zider: because of this
[15:47:36] ivor: I thought thepiratebay were pretty clued on on what their rights were.
[15:47:36] Zider: and thepiratebay isn't even illegal
[15:47:41] scopeuk: no
[15:47:49] scopeuk: but they piss off alot of people with money
[15:47:57] scopeuk: and money makes poloticas and policing go round
[15:48:27] Zider: they had no legal right to enter the server hall at all, but they did anyway
[15:48:37] scopeuk: same happened to super nova
[15:48:49] scopeuk: cept they raided his house too
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[15:49:06] Zider: well, three persons are under arrest as well
[15:49:50] scopeuk: ill take a stab tpb will ahve a full storry on it and there "reaction" later
[15:49:58] Zider: probably
[15:49:58] scopeuk: what they arresed them for?
[15:50:37] Zider: scopeuk: violation of copyright law and assisting to the same
[15:50:44] scopeuk: hmm
[15:50:52] m13a8: so is thepiratebay down perminantly?
[15:50:53] scopeuk: well theres nothign on there that violates copyright law
[15:50:59] scopeuk: m13a8 id doubt it
[15:51:05] scopeuk: have you ever read there letters page?
[15:51:18] m13a8: Notorious, i just now read the story thing on the front page
[15:51:38] m13a8: not yet*
[15:51:43] m13a8: i don't know why it said notorious lol
[15:52:45] Zider: they'll be up soon enough.. it's all totally legal..
[15:52:58] Zider: so it's bloody demented to raid them
[15:53:06] Zider: especially when they use illegal methods
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[15:53:24] m13a8: well it said they had a warrant...
[15:53:28] scopeuk: tpb are good enough to sue
[15:53:37] Zider: m13a8: not to the server hall
[15:53:39] scopeuk: m13a8 depends what the warrent was for
[15:53:47] janneg: swedish police stated that they don't know if something illegal is on the servers but raided anyway
[15:54:00] armand: is this really the best channel to talk about this? especially since its logged and indexed by google?
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[15:54:18] m13a8: Swedish National Criminal Police showed a search warrant to Rix|Port80 personnell. The warrant was valid for all datacentres of Rix|Port80 and was directed at The Pirate Bay.
[15:54:29] Zider: armand: what difference does logging an googling make?
[15:54:48] scopeuk: armand were not disscussing anythign illegal and last tiem i cheack i wasent in sweeden
[15:55:06] armand: i just repeat what the channel founders/admins want
[15:55:17] armand: and they dont want talk of torrents, d*cs*, etc
[15:55:18] Zider: discussing that someone else has broken the law is not illegal :P
[15:55:33] Zider: armand: we're talking about the police breaking the law tho
[15:56:13] scopeuk: lets face it there isa very slim minority in here that wont know what piratebay is
[15:56:21] Zider: at least, that's what I'M talkig about ;)
[15:56:31] janneg: and last week german music industry used an edonky honypot server to report users to prosecutors
[15:56:35] scopeuk: all were discussign is the rights and wrogns of raiding a datacentre bassed on a none crime
[15:56:48] Zider: if I had a server there that they conficated, I'd sue their ass from here to kingdom come :P
[15:57:18] scopeuk: shall we take this to another channel if it is making other users uncomfortable?
[15:57:31] m13a8: howw abouttt
[15:57:43] m13a8: #tpbseizure
[15:58:02] scopeuk: heh sure
[15:58:28] Zider: I'm off to town anyway
[15:58:53] GreyFoxx: Personally I Could less if people torrent everything under the sun. We just don't want "Myth" associated with it. No need to bring the attention of lawsuit happy jerks and politicians here :)
[15:59:10] psofa: btw stuarta the crash happens after the backend has tuned to the channel
[15:59:25] psofa: stream: start_time: 32955.733 duration: 4.822 bitrate=8286 kb/s
[16:00:02] psofa: stuarta, would that error matter?: 2006-05–31 18:59:10.197 NVP: Recording does not have position map.
[16:00:03] psofa: Run 'mythcommflag --file 1603_20060531185901.mpg --rebuild' to fix
[16:00:24] stuarta: not to the crash
[16:01:13] psofa: these are the last words from the backend
[16:01:14] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:01:23.743 Finished recording Unknown: channel 1603
[16:01:14] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:01:23.872 Finished recording Unknown: channel 1603
[16:01:14] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:01:23.877 Preview Error: Previewer file '/mnt/store/recordings/1603_20060531190122.mpg' is not valid.
[16:01:14] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:01:24.277 TVRec(1): Changing from WatchingLiveTV to None
[16:01:14] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:01:24.299 Finished recording Unknown: channel 1603
[16:02:24] scopeuk: GreyFoxx we wernt discusign torrents though althgouh i spose you could asssosiate the site but that whould be akin to saying someone who had used myth stabed someone so there for myth stabs people
[16:03:34] ivor: GreyFoxx: ditto (couldn't care less) and personally I don't... it's just quite a surprise given swedish laws and the fact that tpb appeared to know the ins and outs of their legal system pretty well.
[16:05:25] GreyFoxx: scopeuk: Lawyers and Polictians are anything but logical :)
[16:05:35] GreyFoxx: ivor: Yeah
[16:05:44] psofa: why does the backend say that even if it didnt understand the frontend was killed
[16:06:01] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:04:19.862 DVBRec(1): SetOutputPAT(NULL)
[16:06:01] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:04:19.862 DVBRec(1): SetOutputPMT(NULL)
[16:06:02] scopeuk: lawyers and polotitions are pawns paid for by industry for the purpose of giving an illusion of power to the majority of the voting public who acctually hold no power
[16:06:19] psofa: 2006-05–31 19:04:19.868 TVRec(1): FinishedRecording(Unknown) in recgroup: LiveTV
[16:06:47] ivor: Oh how I'll miss that linotype(r) letter.
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[16:08:02] Juski: talk about coincidence.. just been natterring about this kind of thing downstairs
[16:08:31] ivor: huddled around the coffee machine?
[16:09:06] Juski: kind of
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[16:10:32] ** Juski is wondering where he can rob a PS2 socket from... **
[16:10:37] xris: lol
[16:11:15] Juski: I want to be ready for the new toy arriving ;-)
[16:11:45] Juski: I can see me hurriedly chopping the plug off an old keyboard
[16:12:05] ivor: Juski: what are you up to?
[16:12:09] ivor: whats the new toy?
[16:12:20] Juski: t-online s100 box
[16:12:40] ** ivor has no idea what that is. **
[16:12:44] ** ivor heads off to google. **
[16:12:53] m13a8: ooo (beatcha, ivor)
[16:12:55] Juski: http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http . . . l_s%26sa%3DN
[16:13:01] Juski: oops
[16:13:21] Juski: http://www.t-online-shop.de/res/product_200/resource_37828.jpg
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[16:13:55] scopeuk: Juski v.cool
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[16:15:28] Juski: _if_ I get it working as a frontend it'll be with me @ lugradiolive
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[16:17:34] Merlin83b: How much was it, Juski?
[16:17:59] m13a8: .
[16:18:08] moemoe: ,
[16:18:19] ivor: /
[16:18:28] m13a8: lol i dropped my cell on the numpad and look what it started
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[16:28:24] Juski: Merlin83b: ended at about 50 Eur inc shipping
[16:28:53] Merlin83b: Wow. If that works as a FE, let me know :-)
[16:29:10] Juski: apparently it does
[16:29:28] armand: ?
[16:29:44] xris: Juski: what exactly is it? little embedded box?
[16:29:56] Juski: if not (in my case) it'll make a nice cheap disk box, or a new EPIA case
[16:29:57] Merlin83b: And it was 50E new?
[16:30:08] Merlin83b: Erm, €
[16:30:32] Juski: xris: it's a thing t-online are giving away as part of a 3-play package apparently. only people don't feel the need to keep the box
[16:30:52] Merlin83b: eBay?
[16:31:04] Dagmar: OMG
[16:31:06] Dagmar: I'm jealous
[16:31:44] Juski: they might end up being very popular, but for the 'wrong' reasons ;-)
[16:31:59] Merlin83b: eBay?
[16:32:07] xris: Juski: yeah. if it works, too bad they're not on this side of the water.
[16:32:08] Juski: so far there's no English howto info, but that'll be changing soon
[16:32:15] Juski: Merlin83b: yup Ebay
[16:32:34] Merlin83b: Get it going, tell me it worked, then I'll buy one or two :-)
[16:32:37] GreyFoxx: And the best part is that they come with a TV Encoder natively supported by the IEGD drivers
[16:32:42] Juski: apparently mine is coming with a wireless adaptor
[16:32:53] xris: GreyFoxx: nice
[16:32:53] GreyFoxx: no fscking aroundto get TV outworking with accelerated playback
[16:32:55] scopeuk: your all mean your mking me want one
[16:33:15] Juski: GreyFoxx: same as the xbox – the tv encoder – focus fs454 or something
[16:33:17] ** xris will upgrade his mythbox SOMEDAY.... **
[16:33:23] scopeuk: the msntv project thing has kind of died hasent it GreyFoxx
[16:33:40] GreyFoxx: scopeuk: Because other than me and ovrneith noone is doing anything :)
[16:33:54] GreyFoxx: and I just don't hjave the time to mess with the encoder
[16:34:01] Juski: I'd be doing stuff if I could get my hands on a box
[16:34:16] Juski: I'm not big on writing code but I can sure poke around in registers
[16:34:18] GreyFoxx: Juski: I'll ship you one
[16:34:22] GreyFoxx: I've got a few
[16:34:29] GreyFoxx: I'll flash it and ship it
[16:34:33] scopeuk: i'd do it but im kinda short on knolage
[16:35:02] Juski: GreyFoxx: cool, but hold that thought – I can't be juggling too many projects (or can I?)
[16:35:03] GreyFoxx: the more embedded hardware we get this running on the happier I'll be
[16:35:09] GreyFoxx: hjehe
[16:35:25] GreyFoxx: I'll ship you one if you will be my proxy buyer to get one of the S100's :)
[16:35:30] Juski: the thing with this box is it has PCI inside
[16:35:32] scopeuk: hmm wonder if i na get it goign on a rearly fast laser pritner
[16:35:37] scopeuk: flip book style
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[16:36:02] Juski: people already have (bleuch) VDR going on it
[16:36:04] scopeuk: nargh now im jsut being stupid
[16:36:10] GreyFoxx: Juski: Nice
[16:36:33] Merlin83b: Juski: What are they actually called (ie. what should I search for on eBay?)
[16:36:37] Juski: with a dual-tuner card & a more capable PSU it could make a nifty myth STB
[16:36:47] Juski: Merlin83b: search for t-online s100
[16:37:04] Juski: also known by Bose Zenega (it's fugly brother)
[16:37:13] lu (lu!n=lu@cpe-72-226-238-124.rochester.res.rr.com) has quit ("moving, back tomorrow")
[16:37:43] Merlin83b: Awesome, a bunch with 1€ prices and not long left :-)
[16:38:00] scopeuk: where the hell are you guys searching
[16:38:03] scopeuk: i cant fidn any :-(
[16:38:26] Merlin83b: You have to tell it to use the whole eu and not just uk, scopeuk
[16:38:34] scopeuk: ive tried that
[16:38:43] scopeuk: hmm maby i dident
[16:38:50] scopeuk: thanks lol
[16:39:03] scopeuk: thoguht that was assumed if i dident specify otehr wise (or at least at the bottom)
[16:39:07] Juski: watch out for some not being Intel though – but I believe the VDR guys have it running on the PPC version too
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[16:39:17] m13a8: what time is it there? 5:40 ish?
[16:39:43] scopeuk: yeh
[16:39:59] m13a8: kool
[16:40:20] scopeuk: im hungry gonan go make eatables
[16:40:22] scopeuk: bbiab
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[16:41:24] Juski: so however it turns out I figure I win :-)
[16:41:46] scopeuk: bk
[16:41:48] Merlin83b: Juski: Does it have hdd in it or you doing the network thing?
[16:42:09] Juski: gonna netboot it eventually
[16:42:27] Juski: or I have some DOMs lying around
[16:42:39] Juski: could even put everything on s USB stick
[16:42:43] Juski: s/s/a
[16:42:49] scopeuk: that whould be prety cool
[16:43:02] scopeuk: or solder a usb stick to an internal unused header (if there isone)
[16:43:10] Merlin83b: Yeah, USB would be good.
[16:43:14] Juski: or desolder a usb socket
[16:43:20] Merlin83b: I will most likely do this :>
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[16:43:39] scopeuk: usb disc writers are common these days ;-
[16:43:45] scopeuk: ;-)
[16:44:05] Juski: there's prolly enough room for a slim optical drive anyway
[16:44:13] GreyFoxx: I want one :(
[16:44:30] GreyFoxx: ESPECIALLY since I wont have to well with it to get the TV encoder working
[16:44:44] Juski: GreyFoxx: wait til I get mine, then I can be yer proxy. I dunno how much the shipping will be to you though
[16:44:46] GreyFoxx: s/well/mess/ Man my brain needs a break
[16:45:00] GreyFoxx: Juski: Yeah, I expect crazy shipping :)
[16:45:11] GreyFoxx: I'll add this thing to my existing set of netbooting frontends heh
[16:45:19] Juski: where are you again? Canada?
[16:45:25] GreyFoxx: Halifax, Nova Scotia, CAnada
[16:45:41] Juski: I'll just book a flight. i need a break :-P
[16:45:46] GreyFoxx: hehe
[16:45:59] Juski: to wife: "I'll be back erm... soonish"
[16:46:01] GreyFoxx: Come on over :) All of the various waterfront festivals will be starting soon
[16:46:04] GreyFoxx: heh
[16:46:32] Juski: canada has been on my list of holiday destinations for ages
[16:46:33] scopeuk: hmm
[16:46:43] Juski: the 'to-do' list anyway
[16:47:00] GreyFoxx: Juski: Germany and The UK have been on mine
[16:47:01] Juski: eep – better get going or I'll end up in the dawggy house
[16:47:04] GreyFoxx: heh
[16:47:11] Juski: laters, all
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[16:52:20] scopeuk: isent a speaker from microsoft a bit odd at an oss event?
[16:52:36] laz0r: hi, i have a question regarding mythweb an d lighttpd
[16:52:42] armand: once again in english scope?
[16:52:51] armand: hehe
[16:53:02] scopeuk: lugradio this year has a speaker from microsoft it jsut seams a little weird to me
[16:53:14] armand: ohhh, isnt, not i sent
[16:53:18] scopeuk: thats the onyl message i posted today without a typo
[16:53:25] armand: yeah, odd, but, know thy enemy
[16:53:35] laz0r: im trying to convert the rewrites, and having problems with, anybody here with a working conf?
[16:53:43] scopeuk: know they enamy and ensure he doesent leave without at least 5 iferent live cds
[16:53:47] laz0r: the setenv stuff is working
[16:54:12] scopeuk: im still tempted to go into pc world with 40 copies of knoppix and start rebootign systems
[17:04:41] Dagmar: Hey is there a way to create a new recording profile? I can't seem to find anything in the menus to do it. I can only change the four that are already there, and that's not so useful
[17:05:09] Dagmar: Like, Default, Live TV, High Quality, and Low Quality... I'd rather like to add a Medium Quality entry but I can't find a way to make it happen
[17:09:47] scopeuk: Dagmar i belive it may be possible through the database
[17:09:51] scopeuk: althoguh i make no promises
[17:09:56] godless_: /msg nickserv link godless e1tigre
[17:10:01] armand: yeah baby
[17:10:04] armand: password hax0r time
[17:10:06] armand: !@!#!
[17:10:07] godless_: :)
[17:10:22] godless_: oh well
[17:10:28] godless_: not my day it seems :)
[17:10:40] scopeuk: heh weve all been there
[17:10:42] scopeuk: ive done it
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[17:10:59] scopeuk: and if your anthign liek 90% of the rest f the plannet you got a lot of passwords to change
[17:11:00] godless_: :)
[17:11:30] godless_: no, use mostly different ones, that's the one I use when I'm not too caring
[17:11:32] armand: nah, probably smart and uses a stupid password for irc
[17:11:37] armand: save the real passwords for systems ;p
[17:11:41] godless_: indeed
[17:12:07] scopeuk: heh i havea random 10 digit password which is use on stuff liek irc
[17:12:13] scopeuk: then an 11 digit one i use elsewhere
[17:13:04] godless_: :)
[17:13:11] nero_office: My wife has the most annoying passwords of all time..
[17:13:20] scopeuk: lol
[17:13:20] armand: so does my girlfriend
[17:13:25] armand: 'password' 'iloveyou'
[17:13:26] nero_office: stuff like "Iamsigningintomyworkaccount"
[17:13:27] armand: sigh
[17:13:30] godless_: usually no password login for everything except the desktoptoy
[17:13:31] scopeuk: techinicaly i have 2 random 10 charicter passwrods i use for it
[17:13:35] nero_office: friggin sentences..
[17:13:45] godless_: just ssh with the keys
[17:14:09] scopeuk: ican remember one of my firns had the translation of a ja[ponease word using sounds srarteh than the literal translation
[17:14:20] godless_: :)
[17:14:23] armand: man you sure need a spellcheck
[17:14:30] scopeuk: yes
[17:14:40] scopeuk: or i need to start being more careful as i type
[17:14:42] armand: smokin the hooka? hehe
[17:14:45] scopeuk: either whould be a great start
[17:14:52] armand: when i smoke bowls my typeing goes to shit
[17:15:01] godless_: hehe
[17:15:01] scopeuk: lol
[17:15:04] godless_: bowls ?
[17:15:12] scopeuk: bowls is a cafine drink isent it
[17:15:16] armand: ballz is
[17:15:19] godless_: :)
[17:15:30] armand: a bowl is what you pack with herbal remedy to prepare for smokeage
[17:15:44] armand: either in a bong, a hooka, a spoon pipe, whhateva
[17:15:52] scopeuk: ok
[17:15:56] scopeuk: no im not smoking anyhting
[17:15:58] armand: what do you guys call that in the uk?
[17:16:00] scopeuk: my typing is jsut shit
[17:16:03] godless_: :) sorry not used to the lingo, well english lingo :)
[17:16:06] armand: i hope its not gay like bonnet
[17:16:09] godless_: belgium here
[17:16:11] armand: just call it a hood!
[17:16:17] armand: not something a baby wears!
[17:16:21] armand: :)
[17:16:35] armand: drives me nuts when i watch british touring car
[17:16:38] armand: hehe
[17:16:56] scopeuk: its a bonnet not somethign a thug wears
[17:17:07] godless_: hehehe
[17:17:09] armand: touche(sp)
[17:17:14] scopeuk: ;-)
[17:17:16] scopeuk: w/e
[17:17:19] scopeuk: i rearly dont care
[17:17:24] scopeuk: like its a boot not a trunk
[17:17:32] scopeuk: or trousers not pants
[17:17:47] scopeuk: or football instead of socor
[17:17:55] scopeuk: lets nto go there
[17:17:58] scopeuk: its bad for all of us
[17:18:00] godless_: so you all americans ?
[17:18:04] scopeuk: uk
[17:18:05] armand: that would confuse the other dumb americans, cant have football and futball hehe
[17:18:12] godless_: :)
[17:18:13] godless_: hehe
[17:18:36] armand: im american, but i didnt vote for him — so dont hate me out of the gate
[17:18:39] armand: i tried!
[17:18:40] armand: heh
[17:19:06] godless_: hehehe :) np at least it's a lesson I hope for the future :)
[17:19:16] armand: there's still 32% who approve of him
[17:19:20] armand: i cant believe that.
[17:19:41] godless_: hey isn't that the same nr that believed the sun revolved around the earth ?
[17:20:01] laga: it doesn't?
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[17:20:07] armand: no that was you guys over there in europe wasnt it hehe
[17:20:11] godless_: :)
[17:20:36] scopeuk: not to be too elitist but if you found your way here chances are you have a logical midn of sorts
[17:21:15] armand: i thought the first line of the mythtv docs said to join irc, dont read the docs, and ask everything here when you had a question.
[17:21:16] godless_: hehe :)
[17:21:32] scopeuk: or at least are more inquisitive that to belive a 2000 year old story that is told to you as a child by a man you do no know in a building filled with people that have never questioned the man they do not know
[17:22:12] godless_: I'm feeling pretty stupid right now though, I got mythtv to display static yesterday before I had to crash but today it's not working at all :)
[17:22:27] scopeuk: ive jsut wiped out all my tuning data fixing xmltv
[17:22:29] scopeuk: lol
[17:22:33] scopeuk: oh well atleast that works now
[17:22:41] scopeuk: not like my tunning worked properly any way
[17:23:44] godless_: hmm, I'm still trying to figure out the tuning part etc, using a pcr350 I had lying around, bought it for a media box when it came out, only installed it yesterday an hour before monty python was rebroadcast just to be able to capture it :)
[17:24:44] godless_: scopeuk : isn't the bible written some 300 years after jebus ?
[17:25:16] scopeuk: ]the story whould be at the tiem of jesus but the writing of it whould eb aroudn 300 years after yes
[17:25:24] laga: godless_: old testament was written before jesus. the oldest entries in the new testament approximately 50 years after his death.
[17:25:25] scopeuk: i spose you could say the story started much earlier
[17:25:45] scopeuk: im not saying it isent true
[17:25:51] scopeuk: jsut that i personaly dont belive it
[17:25:56] godless_: hmm, with all due respect, I can't even remember a story for say 300 minutes let alone 300 years :) no wonder there are so many miracles :)
[17:26:23] scopeuk: miirricals are mans way of explaining what he does not understand
[17:26:30] laga: there is evidence that jesus lived. it's just up to you to believe if he was christus or not ) (=the messias or something)
[17:26:37] scopeuk: yeh
[17:26:44] scopeuk: jesus did live he was crusified by the romans
[17:26:45] godless_: lago : hmm, new about the old testament part but not the 50 years after death part
[17:26:55] scopeuk: its jsut the massiah or not part that is questionable
[17:27:10] godless_: :)
[17:27:35] laga: godless_: the old testament is a common part of christianity, those muslim guys and the jews. think abraham.
[17:27:45] godless_: laga : I know
[17:28:04] godless_: and mohamed is the profet/messiah after jesus I know :)
[17:28:23] laga: godless_: mind you: those stories were written *down* a long time after they actually started to exist
[17:28:24] godless_: not totally ignorant :) just a very big sceptic :)
[17:28:52] laga: i'm an atheist myself ;)
[17:28:57] GreyFoxx: GreyFoxx is the only profit whose teachings I follow :)
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[17:29:04] scopeuk: id qualify my self as an atheist
[17:29:12] godless_: hmm, I believe in gods ... I think because eventually humans will become gods in a way no ?
[17:29:12] xris: laga: just remember that messiah != christ (or son of god — I forget which. of the three, two are separate people in jewish prophesy)
[17:29:22] scopeuk: doesent nessaserily mean my views dotn aline with various religions on alot of issues
[17:29:26] scopeuk: jsut means my mind isent tied
[17:29:41] godless_: :)
[17:30:04] scopeuk: godless_ depends how you define god
[17:30:19] scopeuk: masters over lower beings yo ucould already say were there
[17:30:36] laga: xris: i do :)
[17:30:38] scopeuk: althgouh youed be hard presed to find many that whould qualify you as a god with that
[17:30:40] godless_: well, at first nothing light, life etc, power of creation ... power of not caring afterwards ... seems very human
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[17:31:42] godless_: soon, when we unlock the power of the time cube, no wait thats something else, I mean when we unlock imortallity in whatever form, collect all the data there is to collect, should it not become possible to escape this reality and form our own ?
[17:31:44] xris: scopeuk: you're not mormon, are you... good mormons get to become god.
[17:31:51] godless_: hehehe
[17:32:01] xris: actually, good mahayana buddhists basically become gods, too.
[17:32:29] armand: thats if you reach enlightenment
[17:32:41] godless_: ah, knew there was a catch
[17:32:42] xris: armand: in mahayana buddhism, you already have
[17:32:48] godless_: dang enlightenment all the time
[17:32:52] armand: xris: thats cheating
[17:32:54] armand: :)
[17:32:54] xris: it's just a matter of realizing it.
[17:32:56] godless_: ah
[17:32:59] godless_: hehehe
[17:33:05] godless_: so still a catch
[17:33:42] xris: armand: there's a lot of fancy logic surrounding the idea. mahayana buddhism is what became ch'an buddhism in china and then zen in japan.
[17:34:25] xris: it also mixed with a local religion in tibet to form tibettan buddhism.
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[17:35:14] godless_: hmm, always seemed like the sanest (or at least one of the sanest) religions (buddhism)
[17:35:27] armand: nice
[17:35:35] xris: godless_: which buddhism?
[17:35:49] armand: id like to become a buddhist, the whole eat-meat-thing ;/
[17:35:53] armand: i cant do without meat
[17:35:56] xris: there's almost more variation in buddhist doctrine than in the combination of all other religions.
[17:36:11] xris: armand: who says buddhists are vegetarian?
[17:36:23] armand: thought they were
[17:36:24] godless_: xris : buddhism in general
[17:36:26] xris: only some of them
[17:36:32] xris: godless_: there is no "buddhism in general"
[17:36:57] laga: godless_: what you wrote about immortality and collecting all data reminds me of the computer game "deus ex" ;)
[17:37:01] godless_: xris: just like there are no muslims and cristians in general
[17:37:08] xris: the major ones are theravada, mahayana, tibettan and zen, and they're COMPLETELY different religions.
[17:37:34] xris: godless_: don't even try to put suni and shiah muslims in the same group.
[17:37:37] armand: i think tibettan is what i learned about
[17:37:39] godless_: laga: was a fun game :)
[17:37:40] xris: or mormons and orthodox christians
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[17:37:49] godless_: xris
[17:37:50] armand: tibettan would be the 'style' that buddha brought to china right
[17:37:52] godless_: oops
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[17:38:23] laga: godless_: yep. my favourite one. played it like three times. and it works with winex/cedega
[17:38:24] xris: armand: no, tibettan stuff went to tibet.
[17:38:28] xris: mahayana went to china
[17:38:43] godless_: xris: indeed, but my point was that taking a general look, buddhism seems to be the less agressive of the religions, of course there will always be exceptions :)
[17:39:08] xris: armand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism
[17:39:15] armand: buddhism is more about nature and your innerself, from what i learned
[17:39:23] godless_: isn't that a buddhism thing, to find all the names of god, and the world ends, or was it a story I read once ...
[17:39:23] armand: every other religion seems like it was about everybody else
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[17:39:51] xris: godless_: that might be something relating to pure land buddhism (another major one I forgot about)
[17:39:57] godless_: :)
[17:40:25] xris: armand: buddhism is about the self, yes... but so is christianity in many senses.. it's all about personal salvation.
[17:40:29] godless_: I remember that from my childhood, really captivated me ...
[17:40:51] xris: that's probably the one thing that keeps buddhism a religion instead of a phillosophy
[17:41:08] xris: godless_: pure land buddhism is more about saying the name of the buddha over and over to attain salvation.
[17:41:10] godless_: xris: hmm, so is atheism or anyism you want :)
[17:41:19] xris: "namo amida butsu" (japanese)
[17:41:30] godless_: :)
[17:41:47] xris: godless_: atheism denies salvation.
[17:42:01] godless_: xris: atheism denies salvation by ill means
[17:42:07] godless_: or what it considers ill means
[17:42:08] godless_: :)
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[17:42:50] godless_: xris: don't think salvation is only for the religious ones
[17:43:05] xris: buddhism denies soul, denies god (in the sense that god has anything to do with salvation)... technically denies violence, though the structure of Indian culture led to many wars fought in the name of buddhism
[17:43:39] psofa: anyone knows where in the database are the tuning timeout options?
[17:43:46] xris: godless_: what are you saved from in atheism? atheism denies the existince of anything to save or be saved from.
[17:43:49] psofa: for dvb
[17:44:10] xris: psofa: channel table, maybe? or one of the capture card related tables?
[17:44:35] godless_: xris: hmm, my understanding is that atheism denies there being a higher power, salvation itself is just to be saved from harm, by any means, not only devine or religious
[17:45:03] xris: salvation in a religious sense isn't "harm".. it's "eternal"
[17:45:59] xris: in religions of the book, that means going to heaven. in buddhism, that means nirvana (which is a verb that means "to extinguish"), which means to be comletely removed from the cycle of death and rebirth.
[17:46:02] godless_: xris: well to be safe from harm for eternity ... still the same, it's just the religous connotation I think (excuse for me bad english)
[17:46:31] xris: godless_: most atheists I've ever met don't think about eternity.. "just one life, and when it's done, it's done"
[17:46:56] xris: correction.. cycle of birth and re-death.
[17:47:15] xris: I don't think hinduism deals with salvation. It's just about death and rebirth and rising in the ranks, so to speak.
[17:47:25] godless_: xris: like I said, I believe we are the gods :) well not now but someday, and by extrapolation if current thinking isn't totally stupid concerning parellel universes or even the size of the current one ,,, then ods are .. well you know :)
[17:47:41] toi (toi!n=peter@d54C27365.access.telenet.be) has quit ("Leaving")
[17:48:01] kormoc: I tend to think that if we are the gods, then the universe is much stupider then I have hoped.
[17:48:15] godless_: indeed :) isn't it beautifull there is the proof :)
[17:48:51] xris: godless_: but there's nothing dealing with salvation in that... not denying atheism as a religion.. just not one centered around salvation.
[17:49:16] armand: i dont think buddhism is a 'salvation' type religion
[17:49:22] xris: armand: it is 100%
[17:49:26] armand: buddhism seems more like a cultivate your mind type of religion
[17:49:40] armand: christianity, with its constant prayers and 'confessions' seems like you're erally trying to save yourself
[17:49:41] hashbang: I imagine for an atheist, salvation would be something like "I enjoyed that, and don't regret a single thing"
[17:49:42] xris: armand: with the end goal of nirvana, salvation
[17:49:43] kormoc: armand, Nirvana is buddhism's salvation
[17:50:11] godless_: xris: but don't you c, that's atheism biggest salvation, the salvation that life does truly end, the salvation you get by not living a life to idle promise of this group or that, salvation from being forced
[17:50:19] armand: but you could say nirvanan is synonmous with death
[17:50:35] armand: where christians for example get their souls saved everything they confess, supposedly
[17:50:47] armand: everytime
[17:50:48] godless_: supposedly :)
[17:50:51] godless_: hehehe
[17:51:10] xris: armand: like I said, nirvana is a verb, it means " to extinguish" (like a candle)... birth-and-re-death to buddhists is a living hell (literally), the only escape (salvation) is to end it completely, which is nirvana.
[17:51:23] xris: armand: and only Catholics deal with confession
[17:51:38] armand: good point, about nirvana
[17:51:42] GreyFoxx: I've always found that funny
[17:51:42] xris: Christians are saved because Jesus died on the cross for "our" sins.
[17:51:58] godless_: your sins, I never sinned in my life
[17:51:58] hashbang: xris: and High Church Anglicanism, IIRC.
[17:52:00] GreyFoxx: If "God" is some allseeing all knowing entity... why confess? God already knows ?:)
[17:52:08] armand: so christians take the easy way out... "ah well he died already, so he died for us, w00t"
[17:52:09] kormoc: well, Catholics deal with confession to the chruch, other christins deal with confessions to jesus/god
[17:52:47] xris: hashbang: could be — I didn't study a great deal of christianity in college — mostly just buddhism and hinduism, with islam, christianity and judaism only tossed in for good measure.
[17:53:30] kormoc: armand, not at all, it's salvation though living one's life in the manor taught by jesus and his followers and god. it's not ment to be a, I repent and so I'm all good, it's ment to be a hard, trouble filled life.
[17:53:43] hashbang: xris: high church is pretty much halfway between Anglicanism and Catholicism. A certain T Blair is a member, and his wife's Catholic.
[17:53:50] xris: heh
[17:53:54] godless_: I only had a bit or catholic stuff in school, I consider myself a science = bible person
[17:54:24] kormoc: godless_, but if you don't beleive in the bible, you're saying that you don't beleive in science as well :P
[17:54:29] godless_: hehhe
[17:54:41] ** hashbang was raised Catholic, but considers science to be another path to Truth. **
[17:54:51] godless_: kormoc: indeed, all good scientist question EVERYTHING :)
[17:55:02] Dagmar: science = bible? How does that work?
[17:55:08] xris: kormoc: no. he's just using a funky programming language where assignments go in reverse.. he's assigning the value of science to the variable called bible. :)
[17:55:20] Dagmar: Ohh... RPN. Okay
[17:55:21] kormoc: heh, silly languages
[17:55:24] hashbang: these days, I guess I'm agnostic, with a culturally-Catholic background (like it or not, it's there to stay...)
[17:55:38] xris: hashbang: ghandist... "one tree, many branches"
[17:55:40] godless_: was raised "vrijzinnige" hmm, non-believer that believes in goody 2 shoes stuff in people I thin if I remember the classes :)
[17:55:42] Dagmar: Discordianism has it's uses
[17:55:46] psofa: hashbang, what is agnostic?
[17:55:57] hashbang: psofa: "I don't know, and I can't know"
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[17:56:05] godless_: RPN :) is great !
[17:56:06] psofa: i believe theres a god
[17:56:16] psofa: but i dont believe the rest of the fairy tails
[17:56:21] xris: hashbang: not just "I"... "I don't know, and it's impossible to know"
[17:56:21] kormoc: Dagmar, yeah, but it's rather anti-society
[17:56:24] psofa: theres just a gof
[17:56:27] psofa: *god
[17:56:29] hashbang: xris: good point.
[17:56:53] Dagmar: Hardly
[17:57:02] godless_: lasrThursdayism
[17:57:11] hashbang: godless_: humanist?
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[17:57:13] godless_: dang lastThursdayism :)
[17:57:23] Dagmar: You can use it to confuse anyone being nosy enough to ask, to the point where the forget what they were asking about and wander off
[17:57:27] godless_: I believe the world was created last thursday
[17:57:50] Dagmar: You must be getting Discordianism confused with anarchism or something
[17:57:58] psofa: i sometimes think that theres not a world
[17:58:03] psofa: that maybe we all dream of that
[17:58:06] Dagmar: That would be solipism.  ;)
[17:58:07] xris: psofa: idealist. that's philosophy
[17:58:07] kormoc: Dagmar, sure, but if you follow the 'teachings', it leads to chaos, as it is intended to do
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[17:58:28] Dagmar: kormoc: See, this is how I know you don't know about it. It teaches *from* chaos, not to it.
[17:58:38] godless_: Dagmar: follow your principles : "A Discordian is Prohibited of Believing What he Reads."
[17:58:55] Dagmar: Specifically it states that the universe is chock full of chaos and it's a wonder there's any order to it at all
[17:58:56] xris: psofa: should read Spinoza sometime. All things are god, and god is the Universal Necessary Order of Things...
[17:59:09] godless_: sorry found the power of dict
[17:59:13] kormoc: Dagmar, not at all, the Principia Discordia explains how chaos is one of the fundmental requirements of our universe and that it should be embrased and be considered good
[17:59:14] xris: godless_: he'd be a good one for you. To understand god is to understand how the world (science) works.
[17:59:29] psofa: xris, sounds good
[17:59:29] godless_: xris: heard that one before :)
[17:59:30] Dagmar: kormoc: Yes, because if it weren't there it would be nothing, which would be quite dull
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[17:59:53] godless_: xris: I grew up on sci-fi books from the 60's to now
[17:59:58] hashbang: I do sometimes wonder if the Universe is God's PC.
[18:00:08] psofa: lol
[18:00:08] kormoc: sure, but that embraceing of chaos allows the person to do anti-social stuff in the name of discord
[18:00:20] kormoc: which is why it's rather anti-social when put into practice
[18:00:20] hashbang: dunno what he's trying to compute, though.
[18:00:21] godless_: :)
[18:00:22] laga: hashbang: so, the big bang had written IBM all over it and made "click click" noises?
[18:00:34] Dagmar: kormoc: only if the person is anti-social to begin with
[18:00:37] xris: I'm so out of practice with this stuff.. used to know all about this stuff.
[18:00:42] godless_: hasbang: it's cumputing entrophy
[18:00:49] Dagmar: The only thing even remotely anti-social that's in there is a bunch of suggestions to bug the heck out of greyfaces
[18:01:00] kormoc: Dagmar, not really. Think about it this way...
[18:01:19] Dagmar: It simply doesn't matter to the Principia if you deal with other people or not
[18:01:23] kormoc: the laws of 5 infer that when things are not in a set of 5, one should attempt to fix that
[18:01:42] Dagmar: ...which doesn't make it Anti Leninist, Anti Vegetarian, or Anti Apartheid, either
[18:01:56] kormoc: even if it is a 'bad' set, when completing the law of 5, you have infelected chaotic energy back into the universe, as every good discordian should
[18:02:02] armand: since theres more than 5 poeple on the planet, i think you should start remedying that
[18:02:05] Dagmar: No. You've got that entirely wrong.
[18:02:09] Dagmar: All numbers *are* related to 5.
[18:02:10] kormoc: ooh?
[18:02:10] hashbang: kormoc: what if some other Discordian spots the same lack of fiveness, and you make it sixness by mistake?
[18:02:12] Dagmar: there is no need to fix it
[18:02:20] godless_: :)
[18:02:25] kormoc: hashbang, that's okay, that's part of the chaotic nature
[18:02:29] Dagmar: It's just sometimes hard to see the fives
[18:02:33] hashbang: kormoc: oh, OK. Cool.
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[18:02:54] Dagmar: http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/law_of_fives.html
[18:02:55] armand: interesting logic
[18:02:56] armand: heh
[18:03:28] ** xris is really impressed with wikipedia's coverage of religious topics **
[18:03:37] hashbang: actually, that's the most factually correct religious teaching I've seen for a while.
[18:03:42] Dagmar: armand: See, generally after an hour or three of this sort of thing, even the nosiest hardcore fundamentalist needs to go have a lie down
[18:03:45] hashbang: The Law of Fives states simply that: All things happen in Fives, or are divisible by or are multiples of Five, or are somehow directly or indirectly appropriate to 5.
[18:03:45] hashbang: The Law of Fives is never wrong. #
[18:04:02] xris: "appropriate".. lol
[18:04:09] hashbang: xris: exackerly.,
[18:04:34] armand: so i wonder whos right
[18:04:37] armand: the chinese and the 3
[18:04:40] armand: or the discordiafruits and the 5
[18:04:41] armand: hehe
[18:04:45] godless_: lol
[18:04:48] kormoc: Dagmar, well, sure, that's the basic, but when you read Apocrypha Discordia it goes into making the law of fives into the universe, weaving chaos out of order so to speak
[18:04:50] ** xris believes in the law of ones... all things happen in ones... **
[18:05:00] godless_: what is it with the nr 4 in the east ?
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[18:05:44] Dagmar: Holy geez when was this published?
[18:05:57] Dagmar: I'll have to look deeply at this one and get back to you about it
[18:06:03] kormoc: 1995 or so
[18:06:22] Dagmar: I wonder what Wilson has to say about it. Hhe
[18:06:35] kormoc: heh
[18:07:00] kormoc: there's about 20 to 30 discordian books my x-roommate has that I've read randomly
[18:07:24] Dagmar: I suppose I'm technically a fundamentalist discordian then
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[18:07:54] Dagmar: That's truly odd
[18:07:55] xris: Dagmar: more likely orthodox
[18:08:00] kormoc: I just love the lack of hot-dog rolls
[18:08:11] Dagmar: OMG discordian orthodoxy
[18:08:12] Dagmar: rofl
[18:08:17] godless_: :)
[18:08:39] xris: fundamentalism is more a "back to the roots" kind of thing rather than "I was there at the beginning"
[18:09:30] kormoc: there was a rather interesting book on discordian teachings from fight club, I don't recall the title, but it was rather a good read.
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[18:10:49] armand: any book coming out of a plce called fight club, about religion, is bound to be a good read
[18:11:10] hashbang: heh
[18:11:29] Dagmar: It has a pretty solid ethical base
[18:11:32] hashbang: my view of science and religions is analogous to Discordianism's GRIDS.
[18:11:57] kormoc: Ooh, I really loved the Seattle Church of Discordia. The last 'rule' of Discordia is you can not beleive in anything you read, so what they do is take turns reading the books, so the people attending hear the text, and can beleive it.
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[18:12:02] armand: heh.. mine is that anyone who has to believe in a power above themselves, has self esteem issues
[18:12:16] Dagmar: For about a month once I had glibc emitting discordian dates, but apparently no one's mail reader likes that
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[18:12:39] hashbang: Dagmar: party-poopers.
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[18:13:49] xris: armand: some people take comfort in the belief that someone/thing else is in control
[18:14:33] xris: I admit that it would be nice sometime to "put my faith in god"... but even if I was christian, I'm more of a "god helps those who help themselves" kind of person.
[18:15:28] _willcooke_: The moto of the shoplifter! ;)
[18:15:34] xris: lol
[18:16:15] armand: shoplifting is bad karma
[18:16:24] Dagmar: ..and bad on the bac
[18:16:24] Dagmar: k
[18:16:28] armand: hah
[18:18:00] hashbang: "religious authority J. Gordon Melton lists Discordianism among various Neopagan groups in his Encyclopedia Of American Religions. (Melton claims to have excommunicated all other Discordians, based on the fact that he is a Discordian Pope.)"
[18:18:50] epoch_ is now known as epoch
[18:18:54] xris: my dad (a pastor, actually) tells a great joke about a guy who hears a flood warning on the radio, and later an evacuation notice. He refuses to believe because God will save him. As the waters rise, friends come and try to convince him to leave, but he won't because he knows God will save him. The waters rise and boats come to rescue him, but he turns them away. Finally, he's sitting on his roof and a helicopter comes, but he turns them away, too. He'
[18:19:29] hashbang: xris: yup. Sometimes God doesn't work in mysterious ways. :-)
[18:20:41] xris: hashbang: I tell that one to christians who get on my nerves when they start blaming god for not helping them out with their lives.
[18:20:52] hashbang: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Jihad
[18:21:52] xris: lol
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[18:26:48] xris: looks like we wore out that topic. back to the real one.
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[18:29:04] scopeuk: xris that was a proper debate
[18:29:16] xris: yeah. and looked like no real arguments, either.
[18:29:17] scopeuk: spose we could go one worse and start the intl vs amd argument
[18:29:47] xris: lol
[18:29:53] scopeuk: no offense to anyone u it seams that the scientificaly/technologicaly minded find the idea of a higher undetectable being un fathamable
[18:30:07] scopeuk: but it*
[18:30:22] xris: scopeuk: hardly... I know plenty of very religious geeks.
[18:30:31] scopeuk: i know there are quite a few
[18:30:38] scopeuk: quite alot infact
[18:30:48] simcop2387 (simcop2387!n=simcop23@p3m/member/simcop2387) has joined #mythtv-users
[18:30:57] scopeuk: i look t the peopel i meat at school
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[18:31:10] laz0r: i just got my 'mythweb on lighttpd' problem solved... if anyone is interested, just ask
[18:31:11] scopeuk: religion is almost entirley absent from the physics group/maths group
[18:31:18] xris: you're british, though.. as far as I've seen, british people (and europeans in general) tend to be less religious in general (other than culturally religious)
[18:31:25] scopeuk: laz0r write a tutorial
[18:31:30] scopeuk: put it up on the itnerweb
[18:31:36] xris: or put it on the wiki
[18:31:51] xris: I'm impressed, though. thought I went out of my way to make it only work in apache. lol. (j/k)
[18:32:38] scopeuk: xris next up making it work in iis
[18:32:44] ** scopeuk ducks **
[18:32:46] xris: lol, never
[18:32:48] hashbang: xris: I saw some op ed. piece a while back that stated that in the US, because of the long-held association between atheism and communism, atheists are still regarded with much suspicion (cf. Bush Sr.'s quote)
[18:33:04] hashbang: xris: whilst his experience in Europe was that of 'moi aussi'
[18:33:12] xris: hashbang: the US is really backwardsly religious in many ways.
[18:33:34] hashbang: xris: and in some amusingly contradictory ways.
[18:33:40] scopeuk: the us was founded on religion in the most part
[18:33:44] hashbang: to us furriners, anyways.
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[18:33:57] laga: i've seen a magazine quoting figures and saying that the US is almost as religious as most third world countries :)
[18:34:09] xris: as you can see by our current president, who was elected because people liked the "moral values" he spoke about, rather than on important things like economic policy.
[18:34:36] Juski: is this #mythtv-users? ;-)
[18:34:42] hashbang: xris: yup. Blair's attempt to spin his actions in relgious terms has never gone down well here.
[18:35:09] armand: here the president can say it was gods will that he was elected, and most just nod and say ok!
[18:35:12] hashbang: xris: we've been around too long and include too many faiths to be able to pin anything down like that.
[18:35:15] Juski: if the USA is so erm.. moral, then why is it so messed up?
[18:35:23] laga: Juski: of course. :P got your s100?
[18:35:25] armand: because its corrupt
[18:35:26] xris: Juski: that's the sad irony
[18:35:30] Juski: or is it just the folks who don't vote?
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[18:35:42] xris: man was elected on moral values that he himself doesn't actually embody.
[18:35:43] frederikfdvp: hi everyone
[18:35:52] armand: juski: alot of us actually want to split the country in half
[18:35:55] armand: the north half is called the usa
[18:36:00] armand: the south house is called dumbfuckistan
[18:36:07] hashbang: http://homepage.univie.ac.at/horst.prillinger . . . esusland.jpg
[18:36:09] Juski: laga: do you know of a german to english translation tool that doesn't give results in yoda speak?
[18:36:14] frederikfdvp: little problem , i changed my keybinding in mythfronted and now its screwed up :( , any way to restore them ?
[18:36:16] armand: s/house/half heh
[18:36:22] psofa: trying to find whats wrong.anyone knows how can i disable a device? i dont want it to hold an irq
[18:36:27] frederikfdvp: keybindings i mean
[18:36:29] laga: Juski: your brain? supported by http://dict.leo.org ?
[18:36:33] armand: hey i take offense to that map
[18:36:33] xris: and I couldn't get a (religiously and politically) conservative friend to even comprehend the idea that "moral values" should include honesty and not just "gay people are going to hell"
[18:36:39] armand: my state went to kerry
[18:36:42] armand: ;p
[18:36:47] Juski: laga: lol. not after work
[18:36:47] xris: armand: I like baja canada
[18:37:19] laga: Juski: c'mon. ;) well, if you have trouble with anything, i could prolly help you translate – if you promise to keep notes :)
[18:37:38] Juski: I'm just kidding. I can cope with most of it
[18:37:57] laga: Juski: good
[18:38:05] ** hashbang helped someone on the train translate a german restaurant menu tonight **
[18:38:10] frederikfdvp: anyeone :( ?
[18:38:29] Juski: you can spend hours having fun translating other languages back & forth ;-)
[18:38:30] hashbang: "ummm... some kind of meat sausage, a sauce, potatoes... oh, and some salad"
[18:38:43] xris: frederikfdvp: delete them from the database
[18:38:48] frederikfdvp: how ?
[18:38:59] xris: DELETE FROM keybindings?
[18:39:02] _nero_: frederikfdvp, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Little_Gems
[18:39:06] _nero_: third bullet down.
[18:39:15] _nero_: in the misc section..
[18:39:21] ** hashbang did particularly enjoy a vietnamese meal he had in Berlin last year, though. **
[18:39:23] laga: Juski: tell news ;)
[18:39:34] xris: I really wish the backend could be told to regenerate the bindings.. then I could just put a reset button in mythweb.
[18:39:57] xris: hashbang: vietnamese food is good. durian ice cream.. yum....  ;)
[18:39:58] Juski: 'oldkeymap' table?
[18:40:15] _willcooke_: Oooo -> http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/453_324140.html
[18:40:15] hashbang: xris: durian is korean, isn't it?
[18:40:25] hashbang: "like eating custard in a toilet"
[18:40:36] kormoc: heh, more like onion ice cream
[18:40:50] hashbang: I do need to try it sometime, just for shits n' giggles.
[18:41:04] xris: hashbang: it's more south... tropical
[18:41:25] xris: hashbang: get a small piece of frozen stuff — most good grocery stores should carry it if they have an asian section.
[18:41:26] Juski: _willcooke_: resolution data is missing from their webshite
[18:41:38] xris: it basically tastes like caramelized onion.
[18:41:48] hashbang: oh, that's pretty tame.
[18:41:58] xris: hashbang: "frozen"... not fresh.
[18:42:02] hashbang: I was kinda looking forward to the custard-in-a-toilet experience. :-/
[18:42:04] _willcooke_: Juski, and no VGA input, so HD can f off up a tree and stay there for another 18months as far as I care!
[18:42:18] Juski: ROFL! £79.95 for a HDMI cable!!!!
[18:42:23] armand: haha
[18:42:25] _willcooke_: (I'm not bitter or anything, honest)
[18:42:25] armand: thats sick
[18:43:00] Juski: _willcooke_: but it has _two_ SCART sockets :-/
[18:43:09] _willcooke_: Woooo!
[18:43:15] _willcooke_: ;)
[18:43:21] xris: Juski: what about that $1000 power cable or whatever it was that was posted here last week?
[18:43:28] hashbang: making new analogue-tuner TVs now seems a little odd.
[18:43:34] Juski: xris: that was erm... priceless ;-)
[18:43:52] Juski: the government should step in & ban the sale of TVs without integrated digital receivers
[18:44:09] armand: the government should step in and ban tvs too
[18:44:13] Juski: looking at it from their point of view – they'll make more money
[18:44:22] _willcooke_: considering it'd cost all of about 10 quid to stick a dvb tuner in
[18:44:47] _willcooke_: ahh, yes – so comet can sell you a stb
[18:44:47] hashbang: _willcooke_: exackerly.
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[18:45:08] Juski: I'd pay £50 more to have it built in
[18:45:24] Juski: if I could build my myth box into the TV I would
[18:45:46] _nero_: Juski- you can... just dont touch any of the caps.. ;)
[18:46:01] Juski: oh for anyone wondering about how quick SVN is at changing channels with DVB – it's faster than my NTL set top box :-/
[18:46:55] Juski: so no complaining when 0.20 comes out, k? ;-)
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[18:47:18] _nero_: Can I complain that I dont have a TV that can use DVB??
[18:47:54] Juski: lol
[18:48:12] Juski: _willcooke_: apparently that telly on the comet site does 1080i
[18:48:14] _nero_: and that my wife wont let me buy one?? :sniff sniff:
[18:48:25] _willcooke_: Juski, is that good?
[18:48:40] Juski: _willcooke_: considering 95% of all plasmas & lcds don't – yes!
[18:48:48] _willcooke_: Blimes!
[18:49:09] _willcooke_: So, a good buy if you could get a computer to use it as a display?
[18:49:27] _willcooke_: Is there such a thing as a pci hdmi gfx card yet?
[18:49:37] Juski: well to get the 'HD ready' logo they _do_ do 1080i, they just rescale it
[18:50:03] kormoc: _willcooke_, I don't beleive there is a agp/pci-e hdmi videocard yet
[18:50:07] ** _nero_ thought that most HD sets do 1080i, and that 1080p was "The Next Big Thing (tm)" **
[18:50:31] _willcooke_: kormoc, only a matter of time I expect
[18:50:45] armand: _nero_: only the newest of the new tvs do native 1080 anything
[18:50:52] armand: everything else is upsampled 720 i think?
[18:51:13] Juski: 720? you'll be lucky
[18:51:29] kormoc: _willcooke_, ooh, it's HDCP that isn't out yet
[18:51:39] _willcooke_: whatdat?
[18:52:01] xris: hdcp == hdmi with copy protection
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[18:52:06] kormoc: yeah
[18:53:06] _willcooke_: ah, I've read about this copy protection thing – sounds like a pain in the rear for people like us
[18:53:25] kormoc: it was a big thing a few months ago, ATI was claiming their cards were HDCP ready, but they wern't, and when it was found out, they removed all mention of HDCP ready from their website.
[18:53:30] Juski: it's what is going to make me guffaw with great gusto when the 2nd generation Sky HD boxes come along. "sorry, your TV is not compatible because you couldn't wait a bit longer"
[18:54:18] _willcooke_: :)
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[18:55:19] Juski: one of my mates no longer crows about how 'it's all about the Sky +". Not since he got his fifth replacement box in as many months anyway
[18:58:13] _willcooke_: hm, you can buy a dvi to hdmi cable
[18:59:02] Juski: yeh – and it's more than just a bit of wire between the connectors if you want to use it with HDCP gear
[18:59:15] xris: _willcooke_: hdmi is dvi + audio, so cables are easy
[18:59:21] Juski: or am I thinking more of VGA-HDMI?
[18:59:22] _willcooke_: ahh ok.
[19:00:47] Juski: it's not so much the encryption in HDCP that concerns me. Its more that it's said to be feasible to disable devices through software such as HD-DVD discs
[19:01:25] _willcooke_: nasty
[19:01:39] xris: Juski: yeah. if the source determines that the target is insecure (or vice versa), it just won't play.
[19:02:02] laga: fucking content-nazis.
[19:02:06] Juski: that's fine, but 'insecure' could mean "we fell out with that manufacturer"
[19:02:08] ** _willcooke_ wonders how long it will be before a magic box turns up on ebay **
[19:02:17] xris: Juski: or "we didn't pay the giant fees"
[19:02:52] laga: _willcooke_: there already was a magic box. they sanded off the chipset so the other manufacturers couldn't find out who gave them their chips :)
[19:03:06] Juski: if the aliens we stole all the tech from ever find out, they'll be mighty pissed :-P
[19:03:20] _willcooke_: hehehe
[19:04:02] _willcooke_: laga when you say "was" – does that mean there isn't anymore?
[19:04:27] laga: _willcooke_: i think they've stopped selling 'em. i suppose that lawyers were involved.
[19:04:44] _willcooke_: I guess they'll be back
[19:05:35] Juski: back.. from a little known island in a remote part of the world called leetwarez-ulike
[19:06:02] _willcooke_: yeah – china
[19:06:23] Juski: wouldn't surprise me
[19:06:48] Juski: or easterm europe, where a lot of stuff is now being made for euro markets
[19:07:01] _willcooke_: Ahaha! And now I can see the temperature of my backends in the system status. Huzzah
[19:07:04] Juski: but the employees will do anything for extra cash
[19:07:31] laz0r: ok, i've written some very quick'n'dirty tutorial to get mythweb working on lighttpd
[19:07:34] laz0r: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MythWeb_on_Lighttpd
[19:07:36] laz0r: there it is
[19:07:42] laz0r: tell me what you think
[19:08:33] Juski: laz0r: maybe you could rework the tuxbox http daemon to make it less crashy while you're at it ;-)
[19:09:19] laz0r: i assume you are joking, i dont even know what the tuxbox http daemon is...
[19:09:38] Juski: yes I'm joking
[19:09:50] laga: Juski: i updated to a CVS snapshot of tuxbox (dietmarw image to be more specific) and i thought the problems were gone – only to find the box completely crashed on me, not even the clock worked anymore ;)
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[19:12:01] Mrgoose: hello
[19:12:04] Juski: laga: send em to the brig ;-)
[19:12:09] Mrgoose: i have .18 installed how do i upgrade to .19
[19:12:29] Veggen: Mrgoose: which distribution?
[19:12:38] Mrgoose: slackware
[19:14:27] Veggen: I'd say the best is just to upgrade the packages. No slackware user myself, but is http://www.linuxpackages.net/pkg_details.php?id=8745 of any help?
[19:14:39] kormoc: Mrgoose, how did you install 0.18?
[19:14:49] Mrgoose: from source
[19:15:01] GreyFoxx: then do it again ? :)
[19:15:07] Veggen: Mrgoose: where is it installed? In it's own directory?
[19:15:16] kormoc: Mrgoose, well, then yeah, download 0.19, and compile away
[19:15:21] Mrgoose: oh
[19:15:25] laga: and get a DB backup.
[19:16:03] Mrgoose: mysqldump -u <sql username here> -p<password here> mythconverg -c > mythtv_backup18.sql
[19:17:04] Mrgoose: is it worth upgrading to .19?
[19:17:09] Mrgoose: cause im sure somethings gonna break
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[19:17:40] kormoc: well
[19:17:54] kormoc: if you are happy with 0.18 and have no problems, I'd say don't bother
[19:17:59] Mrgoose: cool
[19:20:54] Veggen: but this touches my problem. I have kernel 2.6.15, ivtv 0.4.5, mythtv 0.18 on x86–64. Sometimes, the tuner just locks up when I try to change channel. This happens so far only when watching live video (I have a PVR-500), so using tv-out on video card....
[19:21:05] Veggen: 0.18.1, that is.
[19:22:34] Veggen: now, this happened not too often with 0.18.1, but trying to upgrade to 0.19, I get "ivtv driver has stopped responding" every time I change channel.
[19:23:02] Veggen: is this a known problem?
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[19:23:32] Veggen: MPEGRec(/dev/video1) Error: select timeout – ivtv driver has stopped responding
[19:23:40] Veggen: (is what the logfile says)
[19:26:28] kormoc: Veggen, svn.mythtv.org has all the trouble tickets, might want to check there to see if it's known/fixed already
[19:27:42] Veggen: couldn't find it there.
[19:28:17] Mrgoose: so if i compile .19 , it will automatically erase .18?
[19:28:27] armand: it modifies the database
[19:28:45] armand: once you make install, if you use the same prefix, yes, it will overwrite .18
[19:28:59] armand: its a good idea to back up your db before you upgrade
[19:29:08] armand: useing a backup is the only way to effectively downgrade
[19:29:49] Mrgoose: hmm i dont remember my username/pass
[19:30:35] Veggen: in mysql? hardcoded several places.
[19:30:53] Mrgoose: such as
[19:31:26] Veggen: if you use mythweb, <dir-to-mythweb/config/conf.php
[19:31:39] Mrgoose: any idea on this error
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[19:32:01] Mrgoose: mysqldump: Cant get CREATE TABLE for table 'oldprogram' (Cant open file: 'oldprogram.MYI'. (errno:145)
[19:32:33] Mrgoose: i guess it got mostly everything
[19:32:40] Mrgoose: dumped a 10meg sql file
[19:34:14] kormoc: sounds like your db is already slightly corrupt/screwed up permissions
[19:34:26] Mrgoose: ah
[19:34:27] Mrgoose: bah
[19:34:30] Mrgoose: i'll just start over heh
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[19:41:52] _willcooke_: looks like myth music is broken in the latest svn
[19:42:07] _willcooke_: ‘MUSIC_SHUFFLE_ALBUM’ is not a member of ‘LCD’
[19:42:17] Juski: oh noes!
[19:42:31] scopeuk: wow svn doesent work properly whoed have thunk it
[19:42:36] _willcooke_: I know!
[19:42:44] _willcooke_: Amazing :))
[19:44:55] Juski: laga:... WTF?! http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php . . . p;highlight=
[19:45:57] ** laga is not to blame for anything. **
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[19:46:20] Mrgoose: will i have to recompile ivtv
[19:46:22] Mrgoose: and all of that
[19:46:27] Mrgoose: or should that remain functional?
[19:46:44] kormoc: that should be fine
[19:52:14] Mrgoose: ./configure
[19:52:17] Mrgoose: make && make install?
[19:53:10] kormoc: Mrgoose, http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-5.html#ss5.4
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[20:01:10] psofa: okay now im officially desperate.After recompiling with gcc changing all bios settings checking irqs compiling mythtv like a thousand times.The fe still crashes!!
[20:02:07] psofa: and what drives me nuts is that this is only on my dvb-s card
[20:02:11] psofa: and not the -t one
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[20:05:01] kusznir: Anyone here using gamecon.ko / NES game pads with MythGame?
[20:06:07] janneg: psofa: run the frontend under gdb
[20:06:17] jimmy_bondy_0815: Anybody here who likes to help a mythtv newbie?
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[20:07:06] godless_: :)
[20:07:10] godless_: ask the question
[20:07:11] psofa: janneg, ive done it with stuarta.Either this crash is very strange or im an idiot and i cant enable debugging.Mythfe says that its compiled with debugging though
[20:07:39] jimmy_bondy_0815: godless: Are you talking to me?
[20:07:45] godless_: I was wondering if there is a nice guide to getting mythtv to tune channels with the ivtv stuff
[20:08:03] godless_: jimmy_bondy_0815, guess so :)
[20:08:28] jimmy_bondy_0815: godless: OK, then let me say "hi" first! :)
[20:08:58] jimmy_bondy_0815: I installed mythtv and I have some problems... – First of all: xmltv grabbing does not work.
[20:09:12] jimmy_bondy_0815: Is it possible to start without EPG information?
[20:09:28] jimmy_bondy_0815: Or is it required to use mythtv?
[20:10:17] MonMotha: not required
[20:10:28] MonMotha: though it kinda defeats the purpose if you're having to schedule everything manually
[20:10:39] jimmy_bondy_0815: OK, then I will leave this problem out...
[20:10:56] janneg: psofa: no debugging symbols or was the backtrace not informative?
[20:11:08] jimmy_bondy_0815: (Of course it would be nice if it worked, but there are more important issues to take care of...)
[20:11:39] jimmy_bondy_0815: Next question: I have a PVR-350, I can view live TV, but I cannot switch to another channel...
[20:11:56] psofa: janneg, http://pastebin.com/747768
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[20:12:21] jimmy_bondy_0815: When I press up/down, the channel stays the same. – Any idea, why that doesn't work?
[20:14:19] jimmy_bondy_0815: No idea?
[20:14:25] MonMotha: jimmy_bondy_0815: have you verified using the ivtv tools that you can change channels?
[20:14:34] MonMotha: (without the mythtv backend running of course)
[20:14:43] psofa: jimmy_bondy_0815, do you actually press ok?
[20:14:55] jimmy_bondy_0815: press OK?
[20:15:08] jimmy_bondy_0815: No! :-)
[20:15:11] psofa: i think the default is browse mode? or im mistaken
[20:15:38] godless_: no, not at that stage yet, I'm only getting static, but been able to manually populate the database but I think something is wrong with how channels are chosen, think it's because of ? well stuck there atm :)
[20:15:45] jimmy_bondy_0815: If that's the reason, then it's easy... :) --> let me check...
[20:17:22] janneg: psofa: strange, you have compiled it with --compile-type=debug? is there maybe another myth-install somewhere in $PATH?
[20:18:06] jimmy_bondy_0815: Hm, when I press <up> first and then <enter>, the live TV is paused and nothing happens. When I then press <ESC>, the screen turns totally black! :(
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[20:18:49] jimmy_bondy_0815: I guess this is not the standard behaviour of mythtv, is it?
[20:18:57] janneg: psofa: Is `which mythbackend ` equal to $PREFIX/bin/mythbackend?
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[20:19:40] godless_: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/XMLTV_Myth_Channel_Setup found this in the wiki, think I'm nearly there :)
[20:20:44] sapbeast: i suddenly feel old, someone brought in an old 1990 ide drive at work... and it still works
[20:20:50] sapbeast: 40MB :p
[20:21:21] laga: godless_: if there are any questions left (after fiddling with things), feel free to ask
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[20:21:35] xris: sapbeast: I still have a mac 512k somewhere...
[20:21:40] xris: and a mac SE with 20M scsi drive
[20:21:44] godless_: :) I know, having a blast hitting head against things :)
[20:21:56] jimmy_bondy_0815: OK, one more question (this is an important one): When I start to watch live TV, mythtv automatically starts a recording as well...
[20:22:02] jimmy_bondy_0815: 1) Why is that?
[20:22:08] jimmy_bondy_0815: 2) How can I change that?
[20:22:26] laga: 1.) because the developers made it so 2.) not possible
[20:22:28] GreyFoxx: All LiveTV is recorded
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[20:22:38] kusznir: 1) because its supposed to — that's what gives you the option to pause, etc live tv. 2) you can't.
[20:22:41] MonMotha: that's the new behavior to let you flag your livetv as a recording
[20:22:50] GreyFoxx: IT's all bufferred to the drive and playued back. Allows you to pause/rwd livetv
[20:22:55] MonMotha: the old behavior was more correct in my opinion, but the developers have spoken
[20:23:20] _willcooke_: jimmy_bondy_0815, don't worry about it – you don't see the livetv recorded stuff by default and it will delete itself automatically
[20:23:22] MonMotha: it should autoexpire the recording immediately upon exiting live tv unless you tell it to "record"
[20:23:26] jimmy_bondy_0815: Really? – For pausing live TV it would be sufficient to start recording when I hit the pause button/key, wouldn't it?
[20:23:32] kusznir: The new behavior lets you do things like start watching a program, then say, "record this program" and walk away.
[20:23:33] jimmy_bondy_0815: I am really confused...
[20:23:34] MonMotha: or at least whenever disk is needed
[20:23:36] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: no
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[20:23:52] GreyFoxx: It takes time to open the file, start the buffer etc
[20:24:02] GreyFoxx: so you will not pause exactly where you hit pause
[20:24:14] jimmy_bondy_0815: OK, I understand... you are right
[20:24:14] GreyFoxx: plus you wouldn't be able to rewind and see something you missed
[20:24:14] MonMotha: that's what RAM is for, though I agree that keeping a ringbuffer is the easiest method
[20:24:42] sapbeast: xris: amazingly it seems brand new, no noise and its one of those that has the bolt on stepper motor on the side
[20:25:03] GreyFoxx: The RingBuffer has done the way of the dodo. Or at leat the old pre 0.19 way of doing it :)
[20:25:09] jimmy_bondy_0815: Does that mean that if I watch (hypothetically) live TV for 10 hours than I have a monster (severaly GB) file on my disk?
[20:25:11] xris: sapbeast: nice
[20:25:27] MonMotha: GreyFoxx: as I said, I believe it was also the more correct method, however, the developers have spoken it seems
[20:25:31] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: yes. but it will auto expire within 24 hours
[20:25:32] xris: jimmy_bondy_0815: not unless the show you're watching is 10 hours long
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[20:25:38] _willcooke_: jimmy_bondy_0815, yes – but only temp. if it needs the disk space it'll delete it
[20:25:47] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: OR will expire as soon as myth needs room for something else
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[20:26:00] MonMotha: how does the new code handle somebody leaving it sitting in live tv mode overnight, for example
[20:26:13] GreyFoxx: MonMotha: It's not one big file
[20:26:13] xris: MonMotha: it breaks the recordings up into files per-show
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[20:26:20] GreyFoxx: they are broken on program boundaries
[20:26:23] MonMotha: what if the user lacks guide data for that channel?
[20:26:37] GreyFoxx: Then they would have one big file
[20:26:38] MonMotha: or has grossly incorrect guide data due to the on-air epg being wrong
[20:26:46] MonMotha: and it would crash since myth has zero error handling, gotcha
[20:26:46] xris: MonMotha: then it gets one big file... killed a few people's systems during the olympics that wya
[20:27:13] jimmy_bondy_0815: Hm, then I guess I have to use another application to watch live TV...
[20:27:27] GreyFoxx: One could always look to add a "auto cut at X interval if no other guide data exists" code
[20:27:34] MonMotha: that would probably be a good idea
[20:27:38] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: Why ?
[20:27:40] MonMotha: split on 2 hour boundaries for example
[20:27:56] GreyFoxx: MonMotha: When there isn't any other guide data, I agree that would be reasonable
[20:28:05] MonMotha: that would keep file sizes reasonable while still keeping most programs (which are either half hour or 1 hour on the hour boundary) in one file
[20:28:22] jimmy_bondy_0815: I don't want my hard drive to be busy and I don't want to waste disk space just for watching live TV!
[20:28:33] MonMotha: there are a couple channels for which I have no guide data. You don't need it since they're just things like local weather, but I need to remember to not leave it sitting on live tv overnight on thos chans I guess
[20:28:39] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: Did you miss the "myth will expire it if space is needed" part ? :)
[20:28:48] MonMotha: it's pretty good about expiring them, actually
[20:28:59] GreyFoxx: BUT if you don't want any disk bufferring at all, then yes, another app might be for you
[20:29:06] MonMotha: there's just the concern about everything getting chucked into one big file due to some (relatively odd) circumstances
[20:29:09] jimmy_bondy_0815: GreyFoxx: No, I did not miss that.
[20:29:24] MonMotha: if you have guide data (and if you don't for most of your channels, what's the point of using a DVR?), then that shouldn't happen
[20:30:00] jimmy_bondy_0815: But the PC where my mythtv backend is not only for this purpose... – I am also working on this machine.
[20:30:04] ** GreyFoxx uses livetv just to test the tuners /access after a upgrade :) **
[20:30:09] _willcooke_: whats that switch to make the frontend start up in non-xv mode or non-gl mode? I'm fixing my box over vnc and it doesnt display properly
[20:30:13] MonMotha: yeah, I rarely watch livetv personally
[20:30:19] MonMotha: but I know some people who use it
[20:30:23] GreyFoxx: jimmy_bondy_0815: You can tell myth how much space must be keep free
[20:30:27] GreyFoxx: to make it expire faster
[20:30:31] MonMotha: I don't use it because it can take up to 15 seconds to change channels on my system
[20:30:38] MonMotha: (digital HD tuner)
[20:30:47] _willcooke_: MonMotha, yeah – once you've got your recording schedule set up you rarely have to watch live tv
[20:30:51] GreyFoxx: "100G must be free on this drive" and it will expire programs (LIVE at the front of the list) until it hits that mark
[20:30:54] MonMotha: _willcooke_: yeah, I've found that out
[20:30:58] Darthy: i have a problem with my dvbs cards capturing just bad mpeg data.. the frontend tells me bad lock.. whats wrong?
[20:31:07] MonMotha: Darthy: antenna pointed badly?
[20:31:17] MonMotha: or condional access
[20:31:21] Darthy: dvbs is working fine
[20:31:32] MonMotha: this is DVB, not ATSC, right?
[20:31:34] Darthy: szap is working fine with my channels.conf
[20:31:37] MonMotha: there's a bug in ATSC that I found recently
[20:31:40] Darthy: dvb right
[20:31:42] MonMotha: ok
[20:31:48] MonMotha: are these channels encrypted?
[20:31:48] _willcooke_: trying to live without myth for a month afer having got used to it over about 6 months made me realise how much I rely on it now, I really hate having to sit through ad's
[20:31:49] ** GreyFoxx heads home **
[20:31:57] Darthy: i importet channels.conf.. is that ok?
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[20:32:05] Darthy: i DID NOT scan with mythtv
[20:32:06] MonMotha: maybe, I couldn't get that to work
[20:32:08] jimmy_bondy_0815: GreyFoxx: Where can I tell mythtv about the space that must be kept free on the hd?
[20:32:23] _willcooke_: Darthy, should be fin
[20:32:24] _willcooke_: e
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[20:32:51] _willcooke_: but matching channels up will be a pita
[20:32:54] MonMotha: actually, I had to manually hack all my digital stuff together, but as I said, ATSC support is broke-ass
[20:33:25] Darthy: in the db theres nothing in the frequid field of table channels.. im just wondering where mythtv keeps the freqeuncies from channels.conf
[20:33:44] _willcooke_: Darthy, DVB? In which case it reads it off the air now
[20:33:45] MonMotha: that's part of mplexid
[20:33:57] MonMotha: look under dtv_multiplexes
[20:34:03] Darthy: ah..k
[20:34:19] MonMotha: there should be a frequency and modulation type, then the channels table has the mplexid and service ID
[20:34:25] Darthy: its all strange.. the mpeg data seems bad.. much zeros in it
[20:34:40] MonMotha: and, for ATSC, an "atscsvcid" that encodes the major and minor subchannel in a broken manner...
[20:34:50] Darthy: i have a nova se2 and s plus.. could it be a hardware thing?
[20:34:52] MonMotha: Darthy: you're SURE these channels aren't encrypted?
[20:34:58] Darthy: yes
[20:34:59] MonMotha: even if you have a CAM
[20:35:26] MonMotha: run the backend with -v general,important,channel,record and see if you get anything when trying to watch that channel live
[20:35:29] Darthy: the signal is receiver tested with my dbox.. signals ok
[20:35:37] MonMotha: it should give a rather rediculous amount of info
[20:35:44] MonMotha: oh, you haven't gotten it working outside of mythtv?
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[20:36:00] Darthy: nop
[20:36:04] MonMotha: use the test_dvr program from dvb-apps to make sure you can get a valid TS from the DVR device before you try making it work in mythtv
[20:36:17] MonMotha: mythtv has so many oddities that you'll just make your hair turn gray unless you do that
[20:36:26] jimmy_bondy_0815: You guys already helped me a lot, but I have one more question: As I already said, channel switching does not work. But the worst thing is: When I tried to switch to another channel, live TV will not work anymore, even if I restart backend & frontend.
[20:36:28] Darthy: i can scan, szap gives me a lock, but dvbstream ist just giving only a few kbytes of data
[20:36:36] MonMotha: use test_dvr
[20:36:42] MonMotha: it's a pretty bare-bones read
[20:36:43] jimmy_bondy_0815: The only solution I currently have is to reboot the whole machine... :(
[20:36:54] MonMotha: jimmy_bondy_0815: unload and reload ivtv
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[20:37:13] jimmy_bondy_0815: How do I do that (on the command line)?
[20:37:20] MonMotha: rmmod ivtv && modprobe ivtv
[20:37:33] MonMotha: you'll have to be root to deal with kernel modules, of course
[20:37:34] jimmy_bondy_0815: I will try it at once...
[20:37:44] Darthy: where do i get test_dvr ?
[20:37:52] Darthy: is it included in v4l?
[20:38:09] MonMotha: Darthy: it's part of dvb-apps
[20:38:14] MonMotha: in the test directory
[20:38:26] MonMotha: just use a filter of 0x2000, that'll give you the whole TS mux
[20:38:33] MonMotha: I need to go pick up pizza for people
[20:38:51] Darthy: dvbsnoop gives me good data
[20:39:01] jimmy_bondy_0815: MonMotha: TNX, restarting ivtv driver works!!
[20:39:04] Darthy: is that comparable to test_dvr?
[20:39:17] MonMotha: Darthy: comparable, but try test_dvr. If it works with no filter, try it with PID filters
[20:39:24] MonMotha: if your card has hardware PID filtering, it may be broken
[20:39:25] Darthy: @monmotha> bon apetit
[20:39:40] ** MonMotha goes to pick up pizza **
[20:39:46] Darthy: i have two cards in it.. both the same story
[20:39:49] jimmy_bondy_0815: Now, does anyone have some advice how to get channel swtiching to work?
[20:40:21] jimmy_bondy_0815: The whole thing also freezes when I just press "2" and then <enter>... :(
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[20:44:07] jimmy_bondy_0815: Would it perhaps help if I post some lines out output from the backend which occur when I try to switch to another channel?
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[20:45:45] ** jimmy_bondy_0815 is AFK for 2 minutes... **
[20:49:17] ** jimmy_bondy_0815 is back... **
[20:49:28] jimmy_bondy_0815: Hey, is there anybody left??
[20:53:06] kormoc: nope, all 177 of us are afk and/or bots.
[20:54:24] m13a8: wow there's that many here?
[20:54:32] m13a8: well that's alot.
[20:54:44] hashbang: jimmy_bondy_0815: is it because of your mother that you ask is there anybody left?
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[20:55:16] jimmy_bondy_0815: hashbang: I don't understand your question...?
[20:56:04] hashbang: jimmy_bondy_0815: Is your mother don't understand your question...?
[20:56:29] jimmy_bondy_0815: I just wanted to know if there is still a 'human' user left in this channel (that could perhaps help me to resolve my channel switching problem...)
[20:57:04] m13a8: jimmy_bondy_0815: just go ahead and ask the question and somebody will answer it eventually
[20:57:08] hashbang: jimmy_bondy_0815: why is it you say that you have a channel switching problem?
[20:57:12] hashbang: ok, enough
[20:57:14] jimmy_bondy_0815: If this is not the case, I will continue to browse the web and search for help there...
[20:57:18] hashbang: I'll stop being eliza now.
[20:57:51] godless_: hmm I think I'm experiencing the same problem as jimmy_bondy_0815 here, got a picture now in live tv mode, edited the channels so that the frequency list the channr thingy, but changing channels does nothing, ie I get the guide thing below and it goes to say bbc2 but when I press enter or any key it freezes for a second like it;s tuning but still the same channel
[20:57:54] hashbang: jimmy_bondy_0815: it sometimes takes a while for the tuning to happen.
[20:58:29] jimmy_bondy_0815: The problem is: When I hit <up> and <enter> the live TV pauses and then the whole thing gets stuck. Nothing happens, the application does not respond to any key and I have to kill it from the command line...
[20:58:31] hashbang: godless_: sometimes mplexes drop out. Do you have a device (e.g. a set top box) that you can check the SNR of each mplex?
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[20:59:37] jimmy_bondy_0815: Can I show you the output of the backend?
[20:59:52] jimmy_bondy_0815: ~ 10 lines...
[21:00:03] m13a8: http://pastebin.ca
[21:00:07] kormoc: jimmy_bondy_0815, use pastebin.ca please
[21:02:00] jimmy_bondy_0815: http://pastebin.ca/60411
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[21:03:11] jimmy_bondy_0815: Any idea what is going wrong here?
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[21:05:17] godless_: hashbang, I have no idea what you are talking about :)
[21:06:24] godless_: hashbang, so SNR is signal to noise ... that's about all I understood :) manually tuning and capturing gives good quality
[21:06:26] Darthy: i just test using text_dvr and 0x2000 filter.. zero bytes returned
[21:06:39] Darthy: is it the hardware?
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[21:08:08] psofa: janneg, srry i was away.Yes the fe bin is the right one
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[21:08:31] psofa: could you tell me how can i check if the fe was compiled with debugging?
[21:08:35] MonMotha: Darthy: it means it's not working, at least
[21:08:39] psofa: although im pretty sure i saw it somewhere
[21:10:29] psofa: also im sure i compiled with --compile-type=debug
[21:10:43] janneg: psofa: mythfrontend --version
[21:17:02] jimmy_bondy_0815: Does anyone know if there is also a German mythtv IRC channel?
[21:17:26] rawdlite: #mythtv-de
[21:18:06] jimmy_bondy_0815: OK, TNX – then I will try to get help there.
[21:18:23] ** gardengnome runs for cover **
[21:19:18] godless_: :)
[21:20:41] Darthy: MonMotha > what can i do? is there a way to see if its the hardware? its a real old mobo.. maybe i dont have pci2.1.. cannot find it in the docs of my mobo
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[21:23:08] Juski_shopping: re
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[21:24:12] gardengnome: are stores opened that lte in the uk?
[21:24:19] Juski: oh yes
[21:24:29] Juski: one we've just come back from is open 24h
[21:24:52] gardengnome: nice
[21:25:16] Juski: doesn't matter what time you go though. checkout people are always slow as hell
[21:25:44] _willcooke_: Juski, http://www.seatcupra.net/seat_news/seat_uk_ne . . . or_show.html
[21:26:01] godless_: dang still stuck, changing channels makes the channel nr change, the screen freeze for a sec, but still the same channel
[21:26:28] Darthy: coudl someone please take a deeper look at my kernel messages. im really stuck in here with my nova cards. heres the link: http://pastebin.ca/60416
[21:26:58] Juski: _willcooke_: nice :-)
[21:27:04] MonMotha: Darthy: I'll look, but realize I'm in ATSC land, so I'm not familiar with all the real DVB stuff
[21:27:15] MonMotha: same driver as my card, though
[21:27:26] kormoc: Darthy, looks like your alsa drivers aren't there for some reason
[21:28:00] Darthy: alsa isnt supported for the nova cards as i know
[21:28:09] Juski: Darthy: does the card actually work?
[21:28:17] Darthy: but that shouldnt be a prob.. i just need the stream to be captured
[21:28:19] MonMotha: Darthy: do you need diseqc?
[21:28:22] Darthy: no
[21:28:26] Darthy: double no
[21:28:28] Darthy: :)
[21:28:37] MonMotha: that's good...I've heard it's something of a wreck
[21:28:42] Juski: was just gonna say.. if it works, why worry ;-)
[21:28:54] Darthy: i have a twein lnb.. so i wont need it i think.. im a newbie.. dont know exactly
[21:29:03] MonMotha: so zap gets a lock, but you get no data?
[21:29:07] Juski: Darthy: were we discussing this the other day?
[21:29:18] MonMotha: 0 bytes off test_dvr with a 0x2000 filter (== no filter)?
[21:29:27] Darthy: i heard too.. theres some patches around which only works partly for diseqc
[21:29:36] Juski: I think we were and you said you were going to try tzap and using mplayer /dev/dvb/adapter0/dvr0
[21:29:56] Darthy: juski> yes.. i msged yesterday with the same prob
[21:30:22] Juski: if I was at work I won't have seen the msg
[21:30:27] Juski: if it was pvt
[21:30:31] Darthy: i used szap.. coz its dvbs.. i tried kaffeine, dvbtream and dvb_test to capture
[21:30:35] Juski: okees
[21:30:47] Juski: so no joy there then?
[21:30:47] Darthy: all with no luck yet.. :/
[21:30:58] Darthy: no.. not yet :(
[21:31:30] Darthy: i found some patches for nova se2/s plus.. but i think these are already included in the latest v4l.
[21:31:56] Darthy: as everyone tells me.. nova se2 and s plus should work!
[21:32:10] Juski: I dunno much about satellite, but maybe something is up with the card not using the LNB properly.. IIRC some LNBs switch frequency bands with a 22kHz tone – which may or may not have anything to do with diseqc
[21:32:39] Darthy: hmm.. i dunno..
[21:32:53] Darthy: tuning is fine qith the cards
[21:32:55] MonMotha: you wouldn't get a lock if that's the case
[21:33:02] Darthy: either scan or the mythtv scanning works
[21:33:08] Darthy: but then -> no signal
[21:33:24] MonMotha: if you get a lock, that means the frontend sees the signal and can extract bits out of it (and nothing more)
[21:33:31] Darthy: eother wioth imported channels.conf or with scanning from mythtv
[21:33:37] MonMotha: Darthy: what's the BER on szap's output?
[21:33:43] Darthy: the frontend tells me: no lock!
[21:33:46] MonMotha: it should be 0 or very close to
[21:33:49] Juski: the unanswered thing in my mind is whether or not the firmware has anything to do with being able to get a lock
[21:34:18] Darthy: while tuning with szap.. im getting a lock!
[21:34:29] Juski: Darthy: the output you showed me the other day from szap looked okay – you had good signal, zero BER etc
[21:34:42] Darthy: status 1f | signal f600 | snr ffdc | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK
[21:34:46] Darthy: thats from szap
[21:34:52] MonMotha: that's a pretty good signal report
[21:34:54] Darthy: using a free on air channel
[21:34:57] Juski: that's pretty much as good as you get
[21:35:07] MonMotha: that's comparable to what I get on cable, actually
[21:35:08] Darthy: ok
[21:35:13] MonMotha: snr is through the roof
[21:35:17] MonMotha: so that shouldn't be a problem
[21:35:17] Darthy: whow.. nice
[21:35:18] Juski: but what I don't know is if you have a firmware problem, would that still happen...
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[21:35:29] Darthy: i dont know
[21:35:38] MonMotha: that means the analog frontend is happy. Do the nova cards have any hardware decoding or filtering?
[21:35:39] Darthy: i even dont know if the firmware is uploaded correctly
[21:35:49] MonMotha: you probably wouldn't get a frontend lock without firmware
[21:35:57] Darthy: the kernel msged some firmware stuff
[21:36:04] Juski: MonMotha: that's what I was thinking but I'm not 100% sure
[21:36:06] Darthy: ahh.. ok
[21:36:14] MonMotha: most ATSC cards at least the firmware is actually a DSP proram that needs to be loaded before the frontend can even begin to demod
[21:36:28] MonMotha: I presume most DVB cards are similar (thought he firmware may additionally do other things)
[21:36:41] Darthy: so the firmware should be ok.. when i restart /etc/init.d/hotplug restart.. it states that firmware has already been uploaded
[21:37:20] MonMotha: I'd ask the DVB mailing list
[21:37:28] Darthy: but before in dmesg it also states that hotplug cannot find module.agent and vc.agent .
[21:37:47] Juski: you could always try the drivers from Hg (mercurial)
[21:37:54] Darthy: i searched a lot through.. cannot find any
[21:38:02] Darthy: linuxtv.org ?
[21:38:07] Juski: yup
[21:38:13] Darthy: i always use these.
[21:38:18] Darthy: what else should i use?
[21:38:30] Darthy: did i miss something?
[21:38:30] Darthy: :)
[21:38:45] MonMotha: linux-dvb@linuxtv.or
[21:38:46] MonMotha: g
[21:38:55] MonMotha: I believe you need to be subscribed to post
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[21:39:32] Darthy: what drivers beside v4l can i use for my nova cards?
[21:39:39] Juski: Darthy: none
[21:39:46] Darthy: is there any other possibility?
[21:39:48] Juski: or the windows ones
[21:39:48] Darthy: k
[21:39:51] Juski: on windows
[21:39:55] Darthy: :) lol
[21:39:59] Darthy: hmm..
[21:40:22] Darthy: just in case
[21:40:23] Juski: if you have a spare box with windows it might be a good idea to test the cards out anyway
[21:40:38] Juski: if only to get one less unknown ;-)
[21:40:57] Juski: Darthy: is your kernel a home-brewed job?
[21:40:58] MonMotha: I've had better luck getting video stuff working in linux than windows, believe it or not
[21:41:06] MonMotha: even years ago when I first got my WinTV Go
[21:41:06] Juski: MonMotha: me too
[21:41:15] MonMotha: modprobe bttv, done. Windows...was not so easy
[21:41:38] MonMotha: of course, my ATi AIW Pro was another story since v4l didn't support that digitizer
[21:41:51] Darthy: kernel is 2.6.16.18 homebrewed
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[21:43:29] Juski: Darthy: do you get all the subdevices in /dev/dvb ? i.e. dvr0 etc?
[21:45:10] Darthy: i had subdeviced dvr0, demux0, frontend0 and net0 in both adapters
[21:45:16] Darthy: subdevices
[21:45:36] Darthy: but i installes udev
[21:45:38] Darthy: installed
[21:45:45] Darthy: can it be a prob?
[21:46:13] Juski: it can be but you have the device tree, and szap works
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[21:48:15] Darthy: yes
[21:48:55] Darthy: can it be some dma burst thing thats not supported by my pci?
[21:48:59] Darthy: the cards need pci 2.1
[21:49:01] Juski: I doubt it
[21:49:13] kormoc: what's the proc/mobo?
[21:49:29] MonMotha: actually, that's not beyond belief
[21:49:36] Juski: I'm using a DVB card with an abit kt7-raid mobo.. which is a bit long in the tooth now
[21:49:48] MonMotha: I have a mobo that my ATSC tuner will load the drivers up in and lock, but won't work in unless it's in a ceratin slot
[21:49:50] MonMotha: abit, actually
[21:49:56] Juski: used to be in my backend with 2 tuners – never had any bother with it
[21:50:06] MonMotha: about the same era, too
[21:50:15] Darthy: i have a msi 6167/irongate/athlon500 .. thats also old as hell
[21:50:17] MonMotha: exact same behavior
[21:50:25] MonMotha: stumped a lot of people before I finally moved it to another board
[21:50:54] Juski: oh lordy... when was the last time xbox mythtv was updated? date on one age I just found is like 2005!
[21:51:04] kormoc: My pentium 3 900's were pci 2.0 only, never could get any pvr *50 s to work
[21:51:36] gardengnome: night
[21:51:44] Darthy: @kormoc what didnt work exactly? maybe its the same here..
[21:51:47] Darthy: night
[21:52:09] kormoc: Darthy, they would get detected, but on attempting to get data from them, the driver would just bomb.
[21:52:30] Darthy: mine are detected also fine
[21:52:40] Darthy: could you scan with Xzap ?
[21:52:46] Juski: night gardengnome
[21:52:57] kormoc: I was using one of the pvrs, not a dvb card, so I never tried
[21:53:03] MonMotha: Darthy: you're actually having the exact behavior I was having when I had my pcHDTV 3000 in my old machine
[21:53:06] Darthy: ahh..k
[21:53:09] MonMotha: moving it to a new board fixed things
[21:53:15] MonMotha: I stumped everybody back then, too
[21:53:15] godless_: hmm, I just found out I can switch between 2 channels but not the others, ...
[21:53:33] Darthy: hmm
[21:53:46] Darthy: @monmotha what cards did you have?
[21:54:05] MonMotha: I had a pcHDTV 3000 and a PVR-150
[21:54:05] Darthy: and what mobo?
[21:54:08] MonMotha: neither worked
[21:54:12] MonMotha: Abit BX133-RAID
[21:54:15] MonMotha: same era as yours
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[21:54:18] Darthy: both analog, right?
[21:54:31] MonMotha: no, the pcHDTV 3000 is an ATSC card
[21:54:35] MonMotha: basicallyt he US equiv of DVB
[21:54:41] Darthy: ahh..k
[21:54:57] MonMotha: since we have to invent our own standards for everything...
[21:55:36] Darthy: :) lol
[21:55:40] Darthy: thats true.
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[21:56:01] Darthy: i heard you have 3 or 4 different standards for mobiles ?
[21:56:09] Darthy: is that true?
[21:56:56] MonMotha: I believe 3, but two networks use the standard in a different, proprietary manner
[21:58:04] MonMotha: Sprint and Verizon are both variants of roughly the same CDMA standard, T-Mobile and Cingular are both GSM (and you can swap SIM cards if you have an unlocked phone), then there's Nextel
[21:58:23] MonMotha: Nextel runs some weird proprietary Qualcomm system. In theory, it is being phased out now that Sprint bought them
[21:58:28] speedsix (speedsix!n=dom@rickyholmes.plus.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[21:59:02] speedsix: Hi all
[21:59:07] Darthy: concerning my problem.. im just a glitch away from switching the mobo with a newer one with a p4 1.5ghz.. should i really do it?? what do you think?
[21:59:19] MonMotha: Darthy: I wouldn't be surprised if that would fix ti
[21:59:20] MonMotha: ti
[21:59:21] MonMotha: it
[21:59:21] MonMotha: there
[21:59:51] Darthy: and juski? do you thinks so too?
[22:00:08] kormoc: Darthy, it you have it already there, won't hurt to give it a shot
[22:00:24] Darthy: alright
[22:00:39] Darthy: ill do it.. ill msg you later if i succeeded or sucked
[22:00:51] Darthy: :) thanx very much for great help so far!!!
[22:01:13] speedsix: Has anyone used mpeg2desc to demux recordings?
[22:01:29] ** Darthy off swinging the screwdriver **
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[22:02:16] MonMotha: Darthy: oddly enough, probably the most predominant satellite TV provider in the US actually uses DVB-S
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[22:02:35] MonMotha: however, their conditional access is not compatible with conventional DVB-S receivers (so you have to buy theirs)
[22:04:05] Darthy: :)
[22:04:20] MonMotha: I kinda wish there was a PCI DC2 tuner, though
[22:04:22] speedsix: Anybody help me demux a dvb recording?
[22:04:27] Darthy: thats how economy works
[22:04:31] MonMotha: a lot of the DC2 stuff has publicly availabel keys (mostly network and cable feeds)
[22:04:55] MonMotha: speedsix: it's basically an MPEG2 TS. tcdemux should be able to do it
[22:05:22] MonMotha: in theory, a DVB-S tuner should be able to at least demod DC2, though the FEC isn't the same
[22:05:30] MonMotha: they both use QPSK and 8PSK
[22:05:55] speedsix: MonMotha, thanks. I tried to use mpeg2desc like in the offical myth docs i.e 'mpeg2desc -a0 < originalshow1.nuv > aud0' but this just fails with 'could not read'
[22:07:17] xris: speedsix: is the .nuv file actually an mpeg?
[22:07:59] MonMotha: xris: it should be if it's from a DVB tuner, unless it got transcoded
[22:08:05] speedsix: yeah, dvb-t
[22:08:12] speedsix: files are .mpg extension
[22:08:27] xris: speedsix: then what is originalshow1.nuv?
[22:08:30] MonMotha: yeah, 0.19 will name them (appropriately) as .mpg insead of .nuv
[22:09:02] speedsix: yeah I just pasted the line I couldn't get to work, my recording is actually test.mpg
[22:10:19] speedsix: do you know how I would demux an mpg into seperate audio/video with tcdemux?
[22:11:14] Juski: speedsix: did you not have any joy with projectx?
[22:11:26] godless_: bah, done for today :( ivtv-tune is stuck in us-cable, can't seem to switch back to europe-west :( no monty python is going to be recorded today
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[22:11:54] speedsix: Yeah but it's a bit ott really, the inteface is not pleasant!!
[22:12:03] Juski: speedsix: lossless transcode (mpeg2auto) should work too I think
[22:12:31] speedsix: all the offical docs have scripts which use mpeg2desc which just flat out doesn't work on my machine. Odd
[22:12:38] speedsix: I'll have a look..
[22:13:07] xris: speedsix: if you do lossless transcode, it'll convert the TS to PS, which many programs find easier to work with
[22:13:21] Juski: speedsix: just that mytharchive in SVN now runs mythtranscode on mpeg2ts files as a matter of course
[22:14:00] speedsix: right ok
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[22:14:22] Juski: oh ffs... one of the xbox mythtv images was hosted by thepiratebay :-(
[22:15:00] Juski: does anyone have an image handy? Xebian or similar? I'm only getting 10kb/sec download speed
[22:15:32] speedsix: could I use mythtranscode via the command line to convert recordings from TS to PS?
[22:16:01] Juski: speedsix: I think so
[22:16:13] Juski: mythtranscode --help should tell you the syntax
[22:17:54] speedsix: mythtranscode is saying it was compiled against a different ver than my libmyth?? How the hell did I manage that?
[22:19:11] kormoc: speedsix, you might have two different versions of mythtranscode?
[22:22:23] psofa: janneg, mythfe says it has been compiled with debug
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[22:23:17] psofa: i dont know why the backtrace isnt informative
[22:23:53] kormoc: psofa, you did set nostrip in the features, right?
[22:23:59] psofa: yes
[22:24:10] psofa: ive tried with that in the past
[22:24:17] psofa: that is yesterday :P
[22:24:53] kormoc: heh, just making sure
[22:25:08] psofa: kormoc, they ebuild also already has a debug use flag
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[22:25:49] ** kormoc knows **
[22:27:21] kormoc: When cardoe ever gets some free time, I have a few updates for the ebuild for him to push out...
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[22:29:12] psofa: kormoc, if theres something that could help pls tell me :)
[22:30:09] kormoc: heh, not really, just cleanups
[22:31:00] psofa: :/
[22:31:21] psofa: i hate the idea that i will have to go back to crappy 0.19
[22:31:28] psofa: :(
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[22:32:15] bio__: crappy 0.19? whats the actual version on svn?
[22:32:48] kormoc: Fixes is upto 9960 or so, last I looked
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[22:34:37] psofa: kormoc, do the version numbers of fixes have anything to do with trunk?
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[22:35:05] kormoc: they sorta do
[22:35:07] xris: psofa: svn revisions are tied to the whole tree
[22:35:53] xris: (which makes it annoying when someone says "revision 123" but doesn't specify which branch)
[22:35:57] SarahEmm: meowhi
[22:36:05] psofa: :)
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[22:42:48] janneg: psofa: very strange, I have no idea what's wrong. makomk reported in #mythtv a similar problem (maybe the same)
[22:44:08] psofa: :/
[22:44:16] psofa: ill kill myself
[22:44:23] psofa: cant stop whining :P
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[22:46:01] psofa: janneg, should i ask him in #mythtv
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[22:46:12] psofa: or the devs will bash me :D
[22:46:56] scopeuk: i joined #mythtv once saw the word dev in the title andinstantly though if i ask anything they'll rip my throught out and left
[22:47:20] Juski: lol
[22:47:30] scopeuk: i dont know what it is about eevs on large projects but they seam to becouse elitist and bitter
[22:47:41] scopeuk: heh im sure there are excetptions but thats jsut my experience
[22:48:04] psofa: first time i came looking for support
[22:48:16] psofa: i asked some support qs in #mythtv
[22:48:18] Juski: scopeuk: I can totally understand why.. Infact I think it's amazing they still bother
[22:48:19] janneg: psofa: I'm not sure. You can't really help without debugging symbols
[22:48:27] xris: scopeuk: we usually do
[22:48:30] psofa: and the devs bashed me
[22:48:31] psofa: :P
[22:48:57] xris: I kind of wish that isaac would switch to #mythtv and #mythtv-dev
[22:48:59] Juski: I'm quite highly strung & I only developed a theme :-P
[22:49:01] psofa: janneg, is it me or the symbols arent there ? i dont get it
[22:49:36] makomk: janneg,psofa: I think my problem was probably different, but I can't really tell anything from psofa's backtrace...
[22:49:45] scopeuk: heh itend to satisfy myself with helping the underlings and beginners
[22:49:52] scopeuk: scicen im only jsut crawlign through that myself
[22:50:03] janneg: psofa: Can you send me one of recording that crash the frontend
[22:50:16] Juski: a human being can only sit through so many basic questions IMHO
[22:50:27] scopeuk: must make me a robot
[22:50:38] psofa: janneg, the thing i told you happens while changing channs
[22:51:01] scopeuk: or maby being apparently the only software litterate sixth former has decensortised me too it
[22:51:13] Juski: if I'd have got the job at Dixons I applied for when I was at college I probably would've killed someone
[22:51:39] janneg: makomk: yeah, probably
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[22:52:10] Juski: yikes... I never realised how bad xbmc's playback of mpeg2 is til now
[22:52:48] scopeuk: Juski i dont kno how many tiems over the last 5 months ive had to say you press F12 for prieveiw in dream weaver
[22:53:00] scopeuk: the incompatence of the "IT" group is ammazing
[22:53:24] scopeuk: scary part is most of them got a btter grade than me somethign or other about entire lack of motivation last year
[22:53:41] Juski: at work our customer service guys get a lot of stress... like "how much does the unit weigh... okay.. how about when the hard disk is full?"
[22:53:54] janneg: psofa: there should be a small file for the last channel
[22:54:07] scopeuk: Juski been there
[22:54:19] psofa: janneg, lemme see
[22:54:24] xris: Juski: so glad I don't work tech support anymore.
[22:54:26] scopeuk: ive also had peopel tell me that the computer is going to ahve to be binned becouse windows i sbroken
[22:54:50] scopeuk: i think i could handle a cupple of months of it iv ebeen spitting answers at morons for the last 8 – 10 years why nto get paid for it
[22:55:33] Juski: heh
[22:55:58] speedsix: Try working frontline phone support to grease monkeys. Now that's pain
[22:56:11] scopeuk: heh i live with one
[22:56:23] scopeuk: apparently he cant figure out how to disconect a keyboard
[22:56:31] scopeuk: even after being told which wire it is
[22:57:21] speedsix: We asked one person to right-click on the cd drive, they said "wot.. wiv a pen??"
[22:57:35] scopeuk: lol
[22:58:05] scopeuk: you ever had those moments where you jsut feal liek baning your head on a solid object untill the nice peopel come and take you away from all of it
[22:58:25] scopeuk: think i use to scare peopel at school id ahve enoguh then litraly drop my head on the table
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[22:59:52] speedsix: Funniest one was some woman who phoned up, she seemed confused, couldn't figure out where her disks go when she did a backup? No one could understand what the hell she was on about until an engineer went to see her. He asked her to shown him exactly what she was doing. She was pushing the 5 1/4 disks through the small gap between the drive bays!!! Opened the case to find several months worth of disks in the bottom of the case!
[23:00:23] ** kormoc raises an eyebrow **
[23:00:53] kormoc: any place that has recently used 5 1/4 drives should be openly mocked for the rest of the decade
[23:00:55] Juski: has anyone seen xbmc lately? I'm just sitting playing with it, installing new scripts from the net using the GUI. There's all kinds of stuff there now... youtube & things.. nifty as...
[23:01:35] speedsix: this was a while ago
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[23:02:01] scopeuk: Juski cool althoguh im kinda missign one vital ingrediant
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[23:02:20] scopeuk: althgouh i have a budy who could be pesuaded to part with his xbox for resonable money i belive
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[23:03:18] kormoc: if not, a bat might help pesuad him...
[23:03:23] speedsix: Oh god I did the dumbest thing ever today. I had made a copy of my mythweb dir as a backup. I tried to delete it in midnight commander. It followed the symlinks!! Doh
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[23:03:53] speedsix: caught it just in time, only deleted 2–3 albums worth of oggs
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[23:07:35] datagen24: anybody know of a howto to set up the backend only on a headless server?
[23:07:58] xris: datagen24: how is that any different from normal?
[23:08:58] datagen24: no x server and the installer and rpms are dependent on that
[23:09:17] datagen24: or at least complain about no x
[23:09:24] xris: you still need X.. don't need the server, just the client libs
[23:09:26] psofa: janneg, ill send you the file in 2mins
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[23:09:57] xris: datagen24: in other words, you need X, but you don't need to have it running.
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[23:10:23] datagen24: ok thank you
[23:10:24] xris: esp. if you're using packages, because it requires QT, and the packages all have QT hooked into the gui stuff.
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[23:11:39] datagen24: i am using rpms to help as i am loading it on a achine that functions as my router
[23:12:01] datagen24: it runs clarkconnect a dirivitive of centos
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[23:13:09] xris: good luck with that... axel's rpm's are pretty heavily dependent on a few of his other packages.
[23:14:29] psofa: janneg, okay i have a file
[23:14:32] psofa: the latest
[23:14:39] psofa: it plays fine on vlc
[23:15:10] psofa: however im not 100%sure that this is the channel i had just switched to
[23:15:18] psofa: nah no
[23:15:21] psofa: it is
[23:15:37] psofa: yep and it plays fine
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[23:15:40] psofa: :(
[23:18:13] datagen24: thank you
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[23:24:30] psofa: janneg, there are also some files called previewers the the fe says they are crap
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[23:24:40] psofa: and they are actually
[23:26:35] psofa: is that normal?
[23:27:36] psofa: mplayer cant play them either..says seek failed
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[23:39:44] titanium_platypu: my MythTV won't capture audio anymore....it worked fine before. It still plays the audio on old recordings, but it won't play audio on live TV or any new recordings. can somebody help me? TIA
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[23:43:43] xris: titanium_platypu: what kind of tuner card?
[23:44:57] titanium_platypu: ATI TV Wonder VE
[23:45:03] titanium_platypu: just a cheapy
[23:45:24] titanium_platypu: g2g
[23:45:30] titanium_platypu: but I'll look at any messages when I get back
[23:45:31] titanium_platypu: thanks
[23:51:27] xris: titanium_platypu: you probably just need to set the "record" flag on the audio input interface....
[23:51:28] janneg: psofa: sorry, was away. please try to play it with "mythtv filename"
[23:52:52] psofa: janneg, btw i just disabled the thumbnail preview option and another about previewing videos of recordings
[23:53:04] psofa: and till now it hasnt happened again
[23:53:06] psofa: Oo
[23:54:11] psofa: thinking of Preview Error: Previewer file '/mnt/store/recordings/1603_20060601025435.mpg' is not valid.
[23:54:32] psofa: maybe it was trying to take a png of the invalid previewer?
[23:54:34] psofa: Oo
[23:54:44] janneg: I hope that the segfault is reproduceable
[23:55:11] janneg: so someone else with proper debugging symbols can find the error
[23:55:12] psofa: janneg, i must do 5–6 chan changes to happen usually
[23:55:25] armand: i doubt this is it.. but since adding another gig of ram to my masterbackend(combo frontend) i dont see that memory leak problem in fe anymore
[23:55:39] psofa: but since i changed this option it hasnt happened
[23:55:47] armand: uptime of over 24hrs and 150m 71m 33m S 22.9 4.7 38:06.11 mythfrontend looks normal
[23:56:27] armand: its nice to find spare ram lieing around
[23:57:32] psofa: janneg, theres another possibility.the fe gets overheated and it stopped crasing because its night :P
[23:57:39] psofa: but i doubt it
[23:57:55] janneg: psofa: ok. not sure that it is then. but the files are probably ok
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