MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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Wednesday, August 31st, 2005, 00:02 UTC
[00:02:00] jgirotti: i think that is what it is. i opened ffmpeg.pm and looked at the line that is referenced, i think 163 or 167, and it has to do with height and width i believe.
[00:07:00] otwin: this version seems to work: http://forevermore.net/files/nuvexport/archiv . . . .cvs.tar.bz2
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[00:11:00] jgirotti: otwin: i'll give it a try
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[00:18:00] jgirotti: started up like a champ! it's doing it's thing. i'll have to check the quality and everything later. thanks!!!
[00:20:00] otwin: @jgirotti: cheers
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[00:30:00] smb3_guy: guys, i hot a toshiba tv tuner
[00:30:00] smb3_guy: got
[00:30:00] smb3_guy: external unit
[00:33:00] LedHed (n=LedHed@209-209-124-226.stk.inreach.net) has joined #mythtv-users
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[00:34:00] gf: chutt, u around?
[00:36:00] LedHed: if I have an existing Master Backend and want to add a new Myth that functions as a Front/Backend(secondary) for HDTV can I have the HD record to the local drive?
[00:37:00] gf: does anyone know if the latest version of mythtv will work in ubuntu?
[00:39:00] xris: gf: considering that most of the devs use ubunto, I'd warrant a guess of "yes"
[00:39:00] xris: ubuntu, even.
[00:39:00] gf: ty
[00:39:00] kormoc: unless for some reason myth has taken a strong dislike of the letter u.
[00:39:00] gf: i didnt like fc
[00:40:00] ** xris wants the community bits of ubuntu mixed with the packaging format of rpm... **
[00:40:00] ** xris lobs rotten trout at the stupid politics of fedora packagers/repositories. **
[00:41:00] gf: xris, do they all compile it themseleves?
[00:41:00] LedHed: Fedora 1 was good
[00:41:00] LedHed: 2–4 suckith
[00:41:00] gf: kde sux
[00:41:00] gf: period
[00:41:00] LedHed: Gnome is noce
[00:41:00] Krazylegz: You're using KDE to start up Myth?
[00:41:00] LedHed: nice even
[00:42:00] gf: gnome rocks my dome :o
[00:42:00] Krazylegz: I like Gnome.
[00:42:00] gf: jarod's guide for fc3 said to use kde
[00:42:00] LedHed: si use FC with gnome
[00:42:00] Krazylegz: I kind of like EvilWM too, though.
[00:42:00] gf: kde is a pig
[00:42:00] Krazylegz: Fluxbox is okay.
[00:42:00] kormoc: xfce4!
[00:42:00] Krazylegz: There ya go.
[00:44:00] LedHed: I get lost in other window managers...
[00:45:00] gf: those right click ones hurt my head
[00:45:00] LedHed: like twm
[00:49:00] ender_EE: blackbox, all the way
[00:49:00] ender_EE: who needs gnome just to run myth? :-)
[00:49:00] ender_EE: (or KDE, for that matter)
[00:49:00] LedHed: I do
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[00:51:00] LedHed: with a Master Slave backend setup, can there be 2 storage locations?
[00:54:00] Agrajag-: i dont think so
[00:55:00] LedHed: that sucks... anyone know what the bitrate is on HDTV?
[00:55:00] Agrajag-: it varies
[00:55:00] Krazylegz: LedHed: Could you maybe use LVM?
[00:56:00] PatrickDK: hdtv over cabletv is normally somewhere upto 20mbps
[00:56:00] LedHed: I dont want to have it record to a NFS share. Too much traffic on the network
[00:56:00] LedHed: PatrickDK, thanks...
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[00:58:00] LedHed: so if I have a frontend with a HDTV card and is stores the content on a NFS share then streams it back, I'll be using approx. 40mbps?
[00:58:00] LedHed: time to go Gigabit.....
[00:58:00] PatrickDK: no, about 50mbps
[00:58:00] gf: heh
[00:58:00] PatrickDK: you will max out the 100mbps cable
[00:59:00] gf: gigabit fo life baby
[00:59:00] ender_EE: LedHed: NFS and HDTV has caused me some issues, though
[00:59:00] LedHed: so a 100mgbit network can only handle 2 hdtv streams
[00:59:00] ender_EE: apparently i've not setup NFS correctly, because files over 4 gig cause me headaches on NFS mounts
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[01:00:00] LedHed: I did some testing of Gig-E, and its max throughput is approx 240mbps in cards are on 32bit bus....
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[01:02:00] LedHed: why couldnt it store localy and just use the master Database?
[01:02:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, that is your computer than
[01:02:00] PatrickDK: I can get almost 500mbps
[01:02:00] PatrickDK: your using an sata/ide harddrive?
[01:02:00] LedHed: I hav160*7
[01:02:00] LedHed: oops
[01:03:00] PatrickDK: try using a raid10 scsi 15krpm drives
[01:03:00] LedHed: I have a SATA RAID 5 array with 7x 160g drives...
[01:03:00] PatrickDK: I think your maxing out your raid5
[01:03:00] LedHed: it can feed more than 240mbps
[01:04:00] PatrickDK: ya, but how much pci overhead is that causing?
[01:04:00] PatrickDK: depends on the card and drivers
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[01:04:00] LedHed: thats what I'm saying, the Gig-E is limited by the 32bit bus @ 33mhz
[01:05:00] PatrickDK: pci bus can do 1.2gbps max speed
[01:05:00] LedHed: 64bit PCI
[01:06:00] PatrickDK: 64bit can double that
[01:06:00] PatrickDK: and 66mhz can 4x that
[01:06:00] LedHed: I created a 1 gig ram drive on 2 computers and copied a 1g file from 1 pc to the other. still limited to approx 240mbps
[01:06:00] PatrickDK: what card your using?
[01:06:00] LedHed: RealTek 8196s
[01:07:00] PatrickDK: yuk
[01:07:00] PatrickDK: use broadcom
[01:07:00] LedHed: also have tried nVidia
[01:07:00] PatrickDK: I do like my intel ones also
[01:07:00] LedHed: and intel
[01:07:00] LedHed: all cables are cat5e
[01:08:00] LedHed: the 1.2gbps for PCI, is that divided among the 5 PCI slots I have or 1.2 each?
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[01:10:00] PatrickDK: 1.2gbps for all
[01:10:00] PatrickDK: shared
[01:10:00] PatrickDK: and that is 1.2gbps one way
[01:10:00] PatrickDK: now pci-express is per slot
[01:10:00] PatrickDK: they aren't shared
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[01:10:00] LedHed: so my RAID controller NIC and 4 PCR-250's are maxing it out....
[01:10:00] PatrickDK: ya
[01:11:00] LedHed: but that doesnt explain the transfer from RAM Drive to RAM Drive across the Gig-E
[01:11:00] LedHed: if the other devices arent being used
[01:11:00] PatrickDK: I blame that on realtek
[01:11:00] PatrickDK: I have seen realtek not proform very well in tests
[01:11:00] PatrickDK: onl up to around 400mbps
[01:12:00] PatrickDK: where others will do 800–900
[01:12:00] LedHed: well they were onlt $12.50
[01:12:00] LedHed: so who makes a nic based on the broadcom chipset?
[01:13:00] kormoc: get a intel e1000 or 3com nic if you want a really nice one
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[01:13:00] LedHed: wouldnt the max be 600mbps, hard drives using Half and Nic using Half of the bus bandwith?
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[01:15:00] burly: 32bit bus @ 33MHz is 126MiB/s which is about 1Gib/s, like PatrickDK said. So you shouldn't be maxing at 250Mib/s like you are due to the PCI bandwidth
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[01:16:00] burly: i think the built-in GE interfaces on the nforce4 chipsets have their own channel like the PCI-E slots do, so they should be a bit faster
[01:17:00] burly: otherwise, you really have to go 64bit to get enough bandwidth on the PCI bus to run a GE card AND other things
[01:17:00] burly: *you shouldn't be maxing out at 250Mib/s if all that you are running is the GE card
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[01:18:00] burly: LedHed: what kind of sustained R/W rates do you get on that 7 drive array?
[01:19:00] LedHed: I tried it on several computers. My small server has 3 250g Hard drives (SATA RAID 5) the GE NIC and a MAtrox Mystique PCI
[01:19:00] burly: im curious. I currently have 3x 250GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA in RAID 5 but I will eventually add two more drives to that
[01:19:00] LedHed: my desktop has 1 SATA 400g drive and the GE NIC
[01:20:00] burly: i get about 100MB/s inner track to 135MB/s outer track for reads, 26MB/s inner track to 35MB/s outer track sustained write
[01:21:00] LedHed: where are you going with this?
[01:21:00] burly: I am planning on just 2 PVR-500s or maybe 2 PVR-500s and a PVR-150 so it should be sufficient for what I am doing
[01:21:00] burly: i was just curious, as I said
[01:21:00] burly: as to what rates you are getting in taht 7 drive setup
[01:22:00] burly: eventually I am going to build a dedicated HDTV backend as well
[01:22:00] burly: im not really *going* somewhere with it
[01:22:00] LedHed: not exactly sure. Dont know how to test in linux
[01:22:00] LedHed: how do I bench it in linux?
[01:22:00] burly: you can bench the reads with hdparm -tT /dev/mdX
[01:22:00] LedHed: also the PVR-500 us that a dual tunner?
[01:23:00] burly: where mdX is one of the arrays on the 7 drive setup
[01:23:00] burly: yeah, the PVR-500 is dual tuner
[01:23:00] burly: I have an nforce4 board, so I only have 3 PCI slots
[01:23:00] LedHed: so 4 or 5 capture cards
[01:23:00] burly: so the higher tuner density is nice, since they don't have PCI-E tuner cards yet that I know
[01:23:00] burly: yeah, 4 or 5 total streams
[01:24:00] burly: (the writes I was able to test when I was setting up the new array and moving things over from the old array. Not sure of a good and safe way to do it on a live system)
[01:24:00] LedHed: I can handle 4 Live TV streams with out any noticable loss
[01:24:00] burly: sweet
[01:25:00] LedHed: but if you plan to go GE then you will likley be out of PCI bandwidth.  ;)
[01:25:00] burly: well, like i said, I think the GE card on my mobo has its down channel, like the PCI-X slots do
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[01:25:00] burly: so the only thing that would be on the PCI bus is the tuner cards
[01:26:00] LedHed: If I go HD, I may have to redo my Server Mobo....
[01:26:00] burly: and with hardware mpeg2 encoding, they would be pushing 5x 12Mbit/s which is well below spec
[01:28:00] LedHed: Timing cached reads: 1160 MB in 2.00 seconds = 579.80 MB/sec
[01:28:00] LedHed: Timing buffered disk reads: 30 MB in 3.11 seconds = 9.64 MB/sec
[01:28:00] LedHed: that was the hdparm test
[01:28:00] burly: whoa, that is Really low – is it doing stuff ?
[01:28:00] burly: other than that test
[01:28:00] LedHed: probably streaming a dvd to the kids room
[01:28:00] burly: ahh, that would explain it
[01:28:00] burly: Timing cached reads: 2748 MB in 2.00 seconds = 1373.52 MB/sec
[01:28:00] burly: Timing buffered disk reads: 356 MB in 3.01 seconds = 118.45 MB/sec
[01:28:00] burly: for comparison
[01:29:00] LedHed: what card U use?
[01:29:00] burly: so yours must be busy
[01:29:00] burly: Software RAID5
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[01:29:00] LedHed: what is the controller?
[01:29:00] burly: SATAII from the nforce4 chipset on my mobo
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[01:29:00] burly: is the SATA controller
[01:29:00] burly: software handles all the RAID
[01:29:00] LedHed: ha, mine is a 3ware
[01:29:00] burly: word
[01:30:00] burly: hardware RAID5 cards are expensive =/
[01:30:00] burly: offloading the parity calculations sure is nice though
[01:31:00] LedHed: I turned off the Backend, and got the same results
[01:31:00] LedHed: so it wasnt streaming
[01:31:00] burly: interesting
[01:31:00] Baylink: Just so's yolut root/boot aren't on that SW RAID5, burly... :-)
[01:31:00] Baylink: (your, even)
[01:31:00] burly: Baylink: yeah, i have a two drive RAID1 setup for /
[01:31:00] burly: which also has /boot and /swap on it
[01:31:00] Baylink: Mirrors are good
[01:32:00] LedHed: burly, how many sata ports you have on your mobo?
[01:32:00] burly: yeah, /, /swap, /boot are all on a RAID1 setup, /home, /backup, /data, /video, /music are all on RAID5
[01:33:00] burly: 4 SATAII ports (although I am using SATAI drives)
[01:33:00] LedHed: so how you have a mirror (2 ports) and 3x 250
[01:34:00] burly: 2x 40GB ATA133 drives on channels IDE0 and IDE1 for RAID1, and then the 3x 250 drives on the SATA controller
[01:34:00] LedHed: ah...
[01:34:00] LedHed: Mirror is ATA 133
[01:34:00] burly: yeah
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[01:37:00] LedHed: I wonder why my 3Ware is performing so slow?
[01:37:00] PatrickDK: wright through,instead of writeback
[01:37:00] PatrickDK: butthen, you really should have battery backed raid card
[01:38:00] burly: that shouldn't effect his read speed
[01:38:00] LedHed: it has a battery backup
[01:38:00] LedHed: so where would I set the writethrough on the Cards Bios?
[01:39:00] PatrickDK: hmm, na shouldn't affect read speed
[01:39:00] PatrickDK: I wonder if it's doing data consistence checking on read
[01:39:00] PatrickDK: I personally hate raid5, it's so slow
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[01:40:00] burly: im not sure why its slow
[01:40:00] burly: it definitely shouldn't be that slow
[01:41:00] LedHed: it is a SATA1 card. with SATA1 drives.
[01:41:00] burly: PatrickDK: im only running 3 drive RAID5 and im getting non-slow numbers
[01:41:00] LedHed: yours is SATAII.
[01:41:00] burly: 115MB/s read average across platter and 30MB/s write average across platter is pretty good
[01:41:00] burly: well, the SATAII would only effect burst rate
[01:42:00] burly: and, I am using SATAI drives
[01:42:00] PatrickDK: ya, drives can't substain that speed at all
[01:42:00] gf: is there a version of fdisk for linux?
[01:42:00] PatrickDK: ide does about 35–45mBps
[01:42:00] PatrickDK: scsi can do 45–85mBps
[01:42:00] kormoc: LedHed, I have a 3ware 7000–2 pata and I'm getting more then 30 mbps
[01:42:00] gf: i need to reformat a drive, i could use the cd that came with it but i dont want to screw anything up
[01:42:00] kormoc: gf, yes, also known as fdisk
[01:42:00] burly: gf: linux has fdisk
[01:42:00] gf: ok, what do i do
[01:42:00] kormoc: type fdisk
[01:42:00] LedHed: kormoc, are you using hardware raid or software?
[01:42:00] kormoc: and follow the instructions
[01:43:00] kormoc: LedHed, hardware
[01:43:00] LedHed: fdisk
[01:43:00] kormoc: LedHed, hence the 3ware model number.
[01:43:00] kormoc: :)
[01:43:00] PatrickDK: my 7504 gets 24MBps with 4 200g ide drives in raid5
[01:44:00] burly: PatrickDK: read or write?
[01:44:00] LedHed: Doesnt make sense for it to be this slow
[01:44:00] PatrickDK: read
[01:44:00] burly: damn, i wonder what's off here
[01:44:00] burly: i wonder if hdparm doesn't handle the controllers properly
[01:44:00] PatrickDK: burly, what card you using?
[01:44:00] burly: and you guys are getting bogus numbers because it or something
[01:45:00] burly: im doing software RAID5
[01:45:00] burly: so im not using a RAID card at all
[01:45:00] PatrickDK: oh
[01:45:00] burly: 3 drives on 3 SATA channels for the RAID5
[01:45:00] gf: can i do the fdisk thing with my ubuntu install cd?
[01:45:00] burly: but hell, my software RAID1 w/ 2x ATA133 drives gets ~50MB/s sustained read
[01:45:00] kormoc: gf, you could try and see
[01:46:00] |rt|: should be much faster than that with 3 drives on reads
[01:46:00] burly: not in RAID5
[01:46:00] kormoc: burly, hdparm doesn't handle the drives properly, it's a known issue
[01:46:00] burly: which is stripped + parity
[01:46:00] |rt|: writes with raid5 take a hit though...but even writes should be faster than that
[01:46:00] kormoc: burly, but the speed tests work fine
[01:46:00] burly: no, RAID5 writes faster than single disk or RAID1
[01:46:00] LedHed: kormoc, can you do a hdparm test and post it?
[01:46:00] burly: it takes a bit of a hit over RAID0 stripe
[01:46:00] PatrickDK: raid5 is the slowest thing for writing
[01:47:00] burly: RAID1 is
[01:47:00] kormoc: burly, yeah, raid5== slowest
[01:47:00] burly: negative
[01:47:00] burly: RAID1 is stripped parity
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: raid1 is faster than raid5 write
[01:47:00] burly: negative
[01:47:00] kormoc: actually raid1 is same speed as single disk raid 0
[01:47:00] kormoc: negative
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: raid1 is mirror
[01:47:00] burly: RAID has to write it to BOTH drives
[01:47:00] burly: *RAID1
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: so it's the speed of a single drive
[01:47:00] kormoc: raid 5 is stripped parity
[01:47:00] LedHed: raid 1 should be = to a single drive for writes
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[01:47:00] kormoc: raid 1 == mirror
[01:47:00] burly: RAID5 writes across both drives
[01:47:00] kormoc: both drives write in unison.
[01:47:00] LedHed: yup
[01:47:00] |rt|: but raid 1 doesn't have to compute parity data
[01:47:00] kormoc: raid 5 requires 3 or more drives
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: so you know how raid5 writes?
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: raid5 write one block
[01:47:00] |rt|: it's given the data it has to write
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: it must read every block from every drive
[01:47:00] PatrickDK: compute parity
[01:48:00] burly: so RAID0 is about 2x single drive speed, RAID1 is about single drive speed, RAID5 is about 2x single drive speed -minus parity calculation overhead
[01:48:00] PatrickDK: and write out changes
[01:48:00] |rt|: raid5 has to create it
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[01:48:00] burly: yeah I know how RAID5 works
[01:48:00] PatrickDK: the hit for raid5, read/parity/write is ALOT
[01:48:00] burly: not really
[01:48:00] PatrickDK: where any other method is just write
[01:48:00] kormoc: burly, raid parity is a ton.
[01:48:00] burly: over WHAT?
[01:48:00] kormoc: hence why there's hardware raid controlers for it, cause it's a huge hit
[01:48:00] kormoc: over just writing
[01:48:00] LedHed: the loss would only be in the time it takes to calc the parity bit.
[01:48:00] |rt|: i think it depends on how many disks you have at some point raid5 can overcome some of the penalty
[01:48:00] burly: single drive, RAID1, RAID0, ..?
[01:49:00] burly: my RAID5 setup took a very small hit over the same drives in RAID0
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[01:49:00] burly: as it should
[01:49:00] kormoc: raid 0 doesn't do paraity
[01:49:00] burly: RAID5 is faster than RAID1 for writes, slower for reads. RAID0 is faster for writes than RAID5 by a bit
[01:49:00] kormoc: so why would it be slower?
[01:49:00] burly: RAID0 should be the faster write you can get
[01:49:00] burly: *fastest
[01:49:00] burly: is what I am saying
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[01:50:00] PatrickDK: ya
[01:50:00] PatrickDK: for writing
[01:50:00] burly: so going to RAID5, with the parity overhead, didn't really hurt my write performance
[01:50:00] PatrickDK: raid10 is fastestfor reading
[01:50:00] burly: RAID1 is fastest for reading
[01:50:00] kormoc: raid 5 is still slower then raid 0.
[01:50:00] kormoc: yes, cause it doesn't do anything to data
[01:50:00] burly: RAID10 is best mix for reading and writing
[01:50:00] kormoc: it just reads
[01:50:00] burly: RAID5 is a bit slower than RAID0, but not that much
[01:50:00] PatrickDK: burly, for sequental writes, raid5 is alittle slow than raid0
[01:50:00] LedHed: RAID 10 is 2 striped mirror sets with a 5th drive for parity
[01:50:00] PatrickDK: try random writes with raid5
[01:50:00] LedHed: is that right?
[01:50:00] burly: parity is calculated extermely fast
[01:51:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, you don't know raid10
[01:51:00] burly: RAID10 is stripped mirror
[01:51:00] LedHed: ok, I was close
[01:51:00] burly: why would random writes with RAID5 be slower than random writes on RAID0 any more so than sequential?
[01:51:00] LedHed: so 2 mirror arrays striped together
[01:51:00] |rt|: i have some hardware arrays at work that do raid6 which is similar to raid5 but with 2 parity bits
[01:52:00] PatrickDK: burly, cause of the disk reads,thewrites require
[01:52:00] burly: that IS the case with RAID3 ( I believe) or is it RAID6, where you don't distribute the parity
[01:52:00] PatrickDK: there is no raid6
[01:52:00] |rt|: can loose 2 drives and not loose data
[01:52:00] PatrickDK: raid3 is synced drives, parity on one drive
[01:52:00] burly: http://www.synetic.net/Tech-Support/Education/RAID6.htm
[01:52:00] |rt|: PatrickDK: google it
[01:52:00] PatrickDK: rt, that isn't offical raid though, that is a manuafaure adhoc madeup raid level
[01:52:00] |rt|: raid6 exists....it's not that old though
[01:53:00] PatrickDK: other people call that other things
[01:53:00] burly: but yeah, RAID5 is not slow
[01:53:00] PatrickDK: like raid5–2
[01:53:00] |rt|: purhaps...but with the afforability of drives and the growing need for storage space raid 6 makes sense
[01:53:00] LedHed: back to the BIG issue. My system.  ;) any ideas on how to make it faster? or is the test just nor reporting correctly?
[01:53:00] PatrickDK: use bonnie++
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[01:54:00] LedHed: can i get that in a RPM?  :)
[01:54:00] burly: haha, sorry. Yeah I dunno why it reporting slow/running slow. I don't have much experience with 3ware cards
[01:54:00] |rt|: i have 2 3ware cards at work
[01:54:00] LedHed: I did have a Promise card. that was a nightmare....
[01:54:00] |rt|: LedHed: are these drives attached to a 3ware?
[01:55:00] LedHed: yup
[01:55:00] PatrickDK: hmm, hdparm on my 3ware just gave me anywhere from 6.19MB/sec to 35MB/sec
[01:55:00] PatrickDK: ran it 6 times
[01:55:00] kormoc: LedHed, http://pastebin.ca/21671
[01:55:00] |rt|: LedHed: but you're not using the hardware raid?
[01:55:00] kormoc: PatrickDK, mine goes from 32 MB/sec to 38MB/sec
[01:56:00] LedHed: |rt|, I am.
[01:56:00] kormoc: LedHed, any other info you want?
[01:56:00] PatrickDK: what do you get for cache reads?
[01:56:00] LedHed: I have a 7 disk array setup in the 3Ware bios
[01:56:00] |rt|: LedHed: I had some io wait issues with my 3wares when I first got them so I ended up using software raid on them
[01:56:00] LedHed: that was it. thanks kormoc
[01:56:00] |rt|: and the problem went away...I'm not sure what the cause was
[01:57:00] LedHed: kormoc, is that a RAID0?
[01:57:00] kormoc: yup
[01:57:00] |rt|: i have 2 of their 8508 cards
[01:57:00] LedHed: man, my RAID blows.....
[01:57:00] |rt|: i get around 200mb/s on them now read and around 160 write
[01:58:00] LedHed: my card is a 3ware 9500
[01:58:00] burly: 200MB or 200mb ?
[01:58:00] |rt|: software raid5....the server has dual xeon 2.8ghz cpu's so i wasn't so concerned about the cpu overhead
[01:58:00] |rt|: MB
[01:58:00] kormoc: my card is a parallel ata card
[01:58:00] |rt|: sorry
[01:58:00] burly: w/ how many drives?
[01:58:00] |rt|: 8 in each array
[01:58:00] burly: oh ok
[01:59:00] ** kormoc laughs **
[01:59:00] burly: i was like, how the hell are you getting 160MB/s write, but w/ 8 drives that may be reasonable
[01:59:00] burly: sorry, language
[01:59:00] kormoc: my sata drives are butchering my 3ware card tho
[01:59:00] kormoc: 63 MB/sec
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[02:01:00] LedHed: I'm getting 1.3 the performance as your 2 x drive stripe. shouldn't a 7x drive raid5 be able to come close to a RAID0
[02:01:00] LedHed: 1/3
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[02:01:00] kormoc: LedHed, yeah, you should be getting about 2x the performance iirc.
[02:02:00] kormoc: LedHed, anything in dmesg that looks odd?
[02:02:00] burly: RAID5 should be getting about 90% or better of the performance of a RAID0 setup w/ the same number of drives, as long the parity calculations are done w/ a fast enough CPU
[02:02:00] LedHed: now i'm pissed. I paid serious $$ for that card. and I'm getting crap transfer rates...
[02:02:00] |rt|: LedHed: what io scheduler are you running
[02:02:00] LedHed: what is an io scheduler?
[02:02:00] |rt|: LedHed: i've had alot of luck with the cfq scheduler at work
[02:03:00] kormoc: LedHed, in the kernel, there's types of schedulers
[02:03:00] kormoc: LedHed, what kernel are you using?
[02:03:00] LedHed: I dont know. what ever FC4 uses
[02:03:00] |rt|: schedules how data is written and read from the disk so that you prevent seek storms
[02:03:00] |rt|: in think
[02:03:00] |rt|: FC4 uses cfq by default
[02:03:00] |rt|: in = i sorry stumbling over keys here hehe
[02:03:00] kormoc: LedHed, http://www.3ware.com/products/raid_management.asp
[02:04:00] LedHed: would it matter what format the arra is formatted?
[02:04:00] |rt|: you mean filesystem
[02:04:00] LedHed: ya
[02:04:00] burly: and chunksize, etc
[02:04:00] kormoc: filesystem doesn't affect hdparm
[02:04:00] burly: not sure you can tweak that on hardware cards, but you can in software
[02:05:00] kormoc: filesystem does affect real io tho
[02:05:00] burly: chunksize and algorithm is.
[02:05:00] kormoc: burly, you can on hardware cards.
[02:05:00] |rt|: it would make a difference but it shouldn't cause any huge differences
[02:05:00] LedHed: I think its 64k chunks
[02:05:00] burly: kormoc: i figured you could, but I wasn't 100% sure
[02:05:00] kormoc: burly, anything you can do in software raid, his card can do.
[02:05:00] LedHed: except perform.  :(
[02:05:00] kormoc: LedHed, a little low likly, depending on the files you are dealing with.
[02:05:00] PatrickDK: hmm, using google
[02:05:00] burly: kormoc: i figured as such – it should be that way
[02:06:00] kormoc: but still, should be getting higher transfer rates.
[02:06:00] PatrickDK: I found people saying with freebsd 5.3, they can only get 30MBps out of it
[02:06:00] kormoc: check out the raid tools.
[02:06:00] PatrickDK: but using some other os, they can get 100MBps
[02:06:00] |rt|: LedHed: have you talked to 3ware's tech support yet
[02:06:00] LedHed: no
[02:06:00] |rt|: i started working with them when i first got my 3ware hardware
[02:07:00] LedHed: my card is a 64bit card in a 32bit slot. would that make a huge difference?
[02:07:00] |rt|: but i needed the storage online right away so i just went with software b/c it worked
[02:07:00] kormoc: LedHed, yeah, that will
[02:07:00] LedHed: humm. so I need to get a mobo with pci-x and a 64bit PCI slot....
[02:07:00] kormoc: and I also agree with |rt|, 3ware's tech support is top notch.
[02:08:00] LedHed: I'll have to give them a call
[02:08:00] |rt|: i never said they were top notch...they never solved my problem
[02:08:00] LedHed: lol
[02:08:00] |rt|: but i needed to get the storage online
[02:08:00] |rt|: so i solved it with software
[02:10:00] PatrickDK: ya, the max speed you will get out of a normal 32bit pci slot is around 50MB, maybe alittle more
[02:11:00] burly: sorry to have gotten you such a tither about your RAID setup. I wasn't trying to thump my chest and compare or anything – I was just curious what kind of throughput you were getting with 7 drive hardware RAID5
[02:11:00] PatrickDK: the max speed of 32bit pci is 133MBps – signalling
[02:11:00] kormoc: |rt|, they deal with mine great
[02:11:00] LedHed: bbut i'm only getting 13mb per sec...
[02:11:00] PatrickDK: hmm, I'm seeing a good 40mbps now from mine
[02:11:00] |rt|: LedHed: anything on the same pci bus?
[02:11:00] burly: i would try having it as the only thing on your PCI bus, and see if that helps
[02:11:00] burly: i wonder if those tuner cards or that GE card aren't playing nicely
[02:12:00] kormoc: LedHed, email 3ware and ask them if yours is normal for 32 bit slots, and how much better it would be in a 64 bit slot.
[02:12:00] LedHed: probably, all my PCI slots are filled
[02:12:00] LedHed: good idea
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[02:13:00] LedHed: how can I tell if the PCI slot is 64bit?
[02:13:00] |rt|: lspci will let you know what it's sharing the pci bus with
[02:14:00] kormoc: LedHed, http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/expansion/index.php?file=1
[02:15:00] LedHed: |rt|, http://pastebin.com/350536
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[02:15:00] LedHed: kormoc, thanks, so the physical slot is longer
[02:16:00] kormoc: yup
[02:16:00] |rt|: yeah it's on a bad bus
[02:16:00] LedHed: how do I know what bus to put it on?
[02:16:00] |rt|: same bus as your gigabit nic and tv tuner
[02:16:00] |rt|: the first number is the bus
[02:16:00] |rt|: it's on bus 1
[02:16:00] kormoc: LedHed, remove some cards and give it it's own bus if you want good performance.
[02:17:00] LedHed: thanks...
[02:17:00] kormoc: LedHed, is that GeForce 2 a pci card?
[02:17:00] LedHed: no, agp
[02:17:00] kormoc: ahh
[02:18:00] kormoc: too bad, it seems like you have only one pci bus.
[02:18:00] LedHed: so I only have 3 busses? 0,1,2
[02:18:00] LedHed: lol
[02:18:00] kormoc: yup
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: you won't get the card on the other bus
[02:18:00] kormoc: one is agp
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: on hat motherboard
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: bus 2 = agp
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[02:18:00] kormoc: one is motherboard
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: bus 0 = onboard crap
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: bus 1 is pci slots
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[02:18:00] |rt|: most consumer motherboards don't have alot of pci bus'es
[02:18:00] PatrickDK: I doubt you will find a pci slot on bus 0
[02:19:00] LedHed: can anyone recommend a Mobo with a 64bit PCI slot?
[02:19:00] |rt|: server motherboards will normally have a few
[02:19:00] kormoc: PatrickDK, oddly enough my pci bus is #3
[02:19:00] PatrickDK: kormoc, I said for his motherboard
[02:19:00] PatrickDK: not everyones
[02:19:00] kormoc: ahh, gotcha
[02:21:00] LedHed: damn, $200 for a mobo, that hurts....
[02:21:00] LedHed: and I'll need a new processor
[02:21:00] burly: yeah server boards are expensive
[02:21:00] burly: if you aren't having performance issues, I wouldn't worry about it right now
[02:21:00] burly: in terms of what the array is used for
[02:21:00] LedHed: I will have issues if I go HD
[02:22:00] burly: obiviously is it performance suboptimal in the thereotical performance case
[02:22:00] burly: yeah, I didn't know how near-term your HD move was
[02:22:00] LedHed: 2 HD streams will surely stress my current setup
[02:22:00] LedHed: Getting a 50" plasma this christmas
[02:22:00] burly: if the HD cards are on the same PCI bus as that RAID card, that would be disasterous to performance
[02:23:00] burly: LedHed: sweet!
[02:23:00] PatrickDK: HD stream is 2.5MB/ps
[02:23:00] burly: christmas is in september right? ;)
[02:23:00] PatrickDK: you can't handle 5MB/s stream?
[02:23:00] PatrickDK: that is at 20mbps encoding rate
[02:23:00] burly: PatrickDK: if hes only getting 9MB/s read, probably not
[02:23:00] LedHed: I could get it now. But I think the prices will drop for christmas.
[02:23:00] PatrickDK: heh, I bet he has more than 9MB/s read if he shuts down every process
[02:23:00] protonchris: LedHed: what HD capture cards are you using? Just curious.
[02:23:00] burly: LedHed: yeah, we plan on somethign something similar
[02:24:00] LedHed: protonchris, dont have one yet
[02:24:00] protonchris: LedHed: do you know which one you are going to get?
[02:24:00] LedHed: PatrickDK, I plan to add 2 HD cards in addition to the 4 PVR-250's I have...
[02:24:00] PatrickDK: I thought the pc3000 was the perfered
[02:25:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, ifyou add more harddrive cards
[02:25:00] PatrickDK: well, besides capping out your pci
[02:25:00] PatrickDK: so raid5 setups on them
[02:25:00] PatrickDK: and raid0 software the cards together
[02:25:00] burly: are they planning on ever releasing capture cards (especially HD ones) for the PCI-E interface?
[02:25:00] burly: that would be very nice
[02:25:00] PatrickDK: burly, at some point, but that could be two years or more
[02:26:00] ** burly frowns **
[02:26:00] PatrickDK: pci-e looks kind of nice
[02:26:00] LedHed: PatrickDK, I want to continue to use my existing RAID5, but with 2 HD streams I'm not sure if my network can handle the traffic
[02:26:00] PatrickDK: 100mbit, if your using one switch only
[02:26:00] PatrickDK: can handle 2–3 streams
[02:27:00] PatrickDK: well, 3
[02:27:00] PatrickDK: possibly 4 depending
[02:27:00] LedHed: ya, but I also have 4 SDTV streams
[02:27:00] LedHed: and my usual internat traffic, MPS streaming etc...
[02:27:00] PatrickDK: you will be watching 7 streams at once?
[02:27:00] LedHed: probably 4 to 5
[02:28:00] PatrickDK: what are you encoding your sdtv streams at?
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[02:28:00] PatrickDK: 8mbit? 3mbit?
[02:30:00] PatrickDK: well, at 8mbit, you should be able to handle 4 sdtv, and 2 hdtv
[02:31:00] PatrickDK: though that doesn't leave you any room for burst traffic
[02:31:00] PatrickDK: mainly for ff/rewind stuff
[02:32:00] burly: or any overhead due to sharing the channel
[02:32:00] protonchris: LedHed: what are using this box for (2 HDTV and 4 SDTV)?
[02:33:00] burly: especially since anything that is coming into or out of his RAID card will be also going out the GE card for the frontends as well
[02:33:00] burly: not *everything* but a lot of it
[02:33:00] burly: so he'd have all the source MPEG2 streams on the bus to the RAID controller and then all the streams from the RAID controllers to the GE card
[02:33:00] LedHed: protonchris, 4 SDTV & Storage. The HD Frontends will have their own capture cards
[02:33:00] PatrickDK: burly, no, we are talking 100mbit ethernet, pci can handle that to/from hd/net/cards no problems
[02:34:00] PatrickDK: though that will get close to pci limits too
[02:34:00] burly: im talking about on his PCI bus
[02:34:00] PatrickDK: burly, that is only 9MB/s
[02:35:00] PatrickDK: pci can handle 3 times that without a problem
[02:35:00] LedHed: even if the TV cards are on the BUS. if they arent in use then it wouldnt hurt the 3Ware's performance would it?
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[02:35:00] PatrickDK: that is 1MB/s per sdtv (8000bitrate) and 2.5MB/s for HDTV (20000 bitrate)
[02:35:00] flithm: hey everyone... does anyone know how to change the aspect ratio of the picture in picture box?
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[02:36:00] LedHed: PatrickDK, but in a LiveTV stream with storage on a NFS share there would be more correct?
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[02:36:00] burly: from PCI tuners: SDTV 4x 8mbit HDTV: 2x 20mbit + out of controller to GE card: 2x 8mbit SDTV and 1x 20mbit HDTV
[02:36:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, well, storage on nfs or harddrive
[02:36:00] PatrickDK: it would be no more than 3x
[02:36:00] burly: if hes always half his tuners for recording and never streaming all 6
[02:37:00] burly: he *should* be ok in terms of theoritical throughput
[02:37:00] burly: but thats an awful lot of chatter
[02:37:00] burly: so I don't know what his latency is going to end up looking like
[02:37:00] burly: and what his throughput will fall to
[02:38:00] PatrickDK: he just needs touse the network block device :)
[02:38:00] PatrickDK: I wonder if that would help much
[02:38:00] LedHed: anyone know of a motherboard with 64bit PCI for AMD CPU's?
[02:38:00] burly: and are the HD streams hardware encoded on the card?
[02:38:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, many
[02:38:00] burly: i though they were all software encoding
[02:38:00] PatrickDK: burly, no, pc3000 is hardware
[02:38:00] LedHed: any recommendations?
[02:38:00] PatrickDK: ledhed, tyan
[02:38:00] GreyFoxx: all hd streams are preencoded at the time of transmission
[02:38:00] LedHed: thanks
[02:38:00] xris: burly: hd is already encoded.
[02:39:00] GreyFoxx: All you are doing is recording the encoded stream
[02:39:00] PatrickDK: greyfoxx, only if it's a on airrecording
[02:39:00] PatrickDK: and not from a cablebox
[02:39:00] burly: oh i didn't know that HD streams were in MPEG2 already
[02:40:00] burly: or whatever the format they are using is sufficiently compressed
[02:40:00] GreyFoxx: PatrickDK: Even those are encoded. Unless you are recorded from some analog outputs
[02:40:00] xris: burly: hardly "sufficiently compressed"... they're HUGE mpeg2 files.
[02:40:00] PatrickDK: ya, no way to get it from the cablebox except the dvi/YPrP? cables
[02:40:00] burly: the pc3000 only has hardware MPEG2 *decoding* I think PatrickDK
[02:40:00] PatrickDK: hmm, pc3000 didn't decode
[02:40:00] PatrickDK: I will check again
[02:40:00] PatrickDK: only looked at it quickly
[02:40:00] GreyFoxx: PatrickDK: Firewire if that's an option on your box
[02:41:00] PatrickDK: no
[02:41:00] xris: burly: no decoding.
[02:41:00] burly: xris: yeah 9GB/hr isn't that compact but it could definitely be worse: full frame uncompressed
[02:41:00] xris: anyway, they're mpeg transport streams
[02:41:00] flithm: burly: or it could look as crappy as mpeg4
[02:41:00] burly: oh, so no MPEG2 hardware decoding or encoding then
[02:42:00] xris: flithm: "as crappy as" is pretty relative.
[02:42:00] ** burly hasn't looked into the HD stuff much yet at all **
[02:42:00] xris: burly: no, it just pulls the stream out and saves it to a file.
[02:42:00] xris: either ATSC or unencrypted QAM (Cable)
[02:42:00] burly: MPEG4 can look perfectly fine when its done with a sufficient bandwidth
[02:42:00] burly: xris: ahh, gotcha. Thanks
[02:42:00] flithm: xris: yeah totally... I suppose you can make mpeg4 look real good if you use a high enough bit rate
[02:42:00] xris: flithm: mpeg4 should look better than mpeg2 at the same bitrate.
[02:42:00] burly: yes, it should
[02:42:00] xris: depending on the encoder and other options, of course.
[02:43:00] PatrickDK: and what your encoding
[02:43:00] burly: you should get the same quality at 50–70% the bitrate of the mpeg2 stream
[02:43:00] LedHed: will Semprons run in SMP?
[02:43:00] burly: PatrickDK: yeah, if you record the all snow channel, it won't compress nicely
[02:43:00] burly: LedHed: no
[02:43:00] gf: hey, how do you get mythbackend to launch at startup in ubuntu?
[02:43:00] burly: Opterons are their multiproc setup
[02:43:00] xris: gf: no init.d script?
[02:43:00] flithm: xris: okay I retract my statement.  :). I think I'm just jaded because of all the crap mpeg4 video you see floating around the net. You know the kind where you compress an entire movie down to 700 megs and you can see the individual blocks and all that
[02:44:00] gf: all u have to do is have it do that once?
[02:44:00] LedHed: there use to be Athlon MP
[02:44:00] gf: ./etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start
[02:44:00] burly: yeah, Athlon MP is SMP
[02:44:00] xris: flithm: too many variables for video.. 700 megs is a great quality 2–3 hour video if it's 320x240.. I've seen plenty of good 640x480 ones, too.
[02:45:00] LedHed: but isnt the MP a T-Bird core?
[02:45:00] burly: Opterons use NUMA also
[02:45:00] ** xris has an athlon mp **
[02:45:00] xris: two, even
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[02:45:00] xris: wouldn't recommend it (mine's stable, but most aren't)
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[02:45:00] flithm: xris: yeah... i guess it even depends on the kind of movie eh? Like how much action there is, different colors, and so forth.
[02:46:00] burly: MPs are the same as XPs, they just support multiprocs
[02:46:00] xris: flithm: video encoding depends on SO many different factors.....
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[02:46:00] xris: source resolution, target resolution, bitrate, multipass optimizations, encoder options, encoder type... to name a few.
[02:47:00] xris: burly: the MP's and XP's were horribly unstable processors, though. overheat problems, early deaths, etc.
[02:47:00] xris: athlon64 and opteron are completely different, however...
[02:48:00] burly: yeah they are pretty difficult to cool, but so are the latest p4s
[02:48:00] burly: yeah i love my athlon64
[02:48:00] xris: latest p4's don't die when they overheat, though... they just shut down.
[02:48:00] burly: 34C idle, 40C full load, 23C ambient
[02:48:00] gf: mythbackend isnt starting up when i boot
[02:48:00] gf: i'm using ubuntu
[02:48:00] burly: yeah they have a higher hysteresis (the p4s)
[02:48:00] LedHed: xris, I've neer had stability issues with my Athlon XP's? Thats all I use in our CAD workstations...
[02:48:00] xris: anyone remember what the chkconfig equivalent is for ubuntu?
[02:49:00] xris: LedHed: dunno. back when we were selling them alongide p4's, they were about 10% of our sales, and a good 50% of our RMA's
[02:49:00] flithm: gf: that's really something you should check your distro docs about... it's gotta be a real simple matter.
[02:49:00] burly: XPs and MPs can definitely be stable, you just have to make sure they are cooled properly
[02:49:00] xris: burly: exactly.. which a 1u isn't.
[02:49:00] burly: xris: yeah but I would imagine a great deal more people OC the AMDs
[02:49:00] burly: oh, these were 1U servers
[02:49:00] xris: burly: no, this is rackmount gear I'm talking about.
[02:49:00] burly: aka toasts
[02:49:00] burly: *toasters
[02:50:00] xris: 1 and 2u mostly for that stuff...
[02:50:00] LedHed: The T-Breds & T-Birds were hot. But the Barton core was perfect....
[02:50:00] xris: as for me, I just got a shitty motherboard... the whole athlon mp platform apparently wasn't developed enough to work out all of the bugs.
[02:50:00] LedHed: I can see heat issues in a 1U environment. not enough space for a good heatsink
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[02:51:00] xris: LedHed: that's why they have fast fans.
[02:51:00] burly: the original Tyan MP board was pretty buggy
[02:51:00] LedHed: fast fans = early burnout and dead CPU;s
[02:51:00] xris: mine's an asus... apparently the same one owned by alan cox for awhile, and he apparently had nothing but obsceneties to describe it.
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[02:52:00] xris: was horrible at first (one of its slots ate RAM), then it just died. replacement board has been stable ever since.
[02:52:00] xris: I want to get rid of it, though. 100 watts at idle. blech.
[02:52:00] xris: I like the p4-m in my box at work.
[02:53:00] LedHed: which Intel core is the the HOT core. Prescot?
[02:53:00] xris: which of course will never see the light of day because they've dropped the "4"
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[02:53:00] xris: LedHed: whichever one is in my wife's box. they're nowhere near as bad as the old athlons, though.
[02:53:00] xris: first hyperthreaded ones. PITA to get qual'd
[02:54:00] LedHed: I've seen people post that they throttle a lot.
[02:54:00] burly: yeah the Prescott is I believe
[02:54:00] xris: all the new pentiums coming out soon will have the speedstep stuff from their mobile platform (hence the beta p4-m in my workstation at work) so they'll be cooler and REALLY low power (6–8 watts at idle!).
[02:55:00] burly: the P4-EEs have the highest thermal dissapation I believe
[02:55:00] burly: but they also ridiculously expensive and few own them
[02:56:00] xris: is that the gamer-edition one?
[02:56:00] LedHed: the cheapest Mobo with 64bit PCI is $230 and its intel... Blech!
[02:56:00] burly: its geared more towards gamers yes
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[02:56:00] burly: but any single-threaded app that is CPU intensive would benefit from it i guess
[02:57:00] xris: we go through revs so fast, I forget what's what, and what's released or pre- or not-ever.
[02:57:00] burly: it has lots of L2 cache and such
[02:57:00] xris: LedHed: my board has 64 bit pci.
[02:57:00] LedHed: what mobo is it?
[02:57:00] xris: and if I don't plug at least one 64 bit card in, only one of the 32 bit slots works.
[02:57:00] LedHed: lol
[02:57:00] xris: old athlon mp asus
[02:57:00] LedHed: I hate Asus....
[02:57:00] xris: 3–4 years old.
[02:58:00] LedHed: my last 2 Asus were only 2 days old...
[02:58:00] xris: we mostly use supermicro at work.. but they're mostly server boards.
[02:58:00] LedHed: then they crapped out
[02:59:00] LedHed: you can put a 32bit PCI card in a 64bit slot right?
[02:59:00] xris: I have mixed feelings about asus. I think this mobo is pretty crappy (though it's worked fine without trouble for several years now, since the first one died)... but I really like my pundit.
[02:59:00] xris: LedHed: as long as the voltage is ok, yes.
[02:59:00] kormoc|afk is now known as kormoc
[03:00:00] xris: don't the athlon64 boards have 64 bit slots?
[03:00:00] xris: and pci-e?
[03:01:00] LedHed: not that I can find
[03:01:00] xris: hmm
[03:02:00] burly: my nforce4 has 3 PCI and 1 PCI-E x16, 2 PCI-E x1 and 4 PCI-E x4
[03:02:00] xris: nice
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[03:02:00] LedHed: but thats not 64bit pci (PCI-x)
[03:03:00] xris: pci-e is better, anyway. heh.
[03:03:00] burly: well, the PCI-E x4 is 1GB/s
[03:03:00] LedHed: but my 3ware card is PCI-x
[03:03:00] burly: thats plenty for now for me
[03:03:00] xris: LedHed: ah
[03:03:00] burly: but yeah, I don't have PCI-X
[03:04:00] xris: LedHed: server board or desktop?
[03:05:00] LedHed: My only requirements are that there is a 64bit PCI slot....
[03:05:00] LedHed: I prefre AMD CPU's
[03:05:00] LedHed: prefer rather
[03:06:00] xris: well, server vs desktop board makes a difference... most server boards don't have a video-cable expansion slot (pci-e x 4 or agp)
[03:06:00] xris: (x 4 or 16 or whatever)
[03:06:00] LedHed: video doesnt matter, its going to be a backend
[03:07:00] xris: remind me tomorrow and I'll ask around at work to see if we might have any old stock
[03:07:00] xris: would probably be intel, though
[03:07:00] LedHed: cool, thanks
[03:08:00] xris: like I said, until the a64 and opteron, most enterprise-level stuff stayed away from AMD... for reliability reasons as well as for the fact that AMD never tried to break into the market (they're only just now starting to try)
[03:09:00] LedHed: I dont hate Intel. they are just usually very pricey...
[03:09:00] xris: for some stuff, yes.
[03:10:00] LedHed: is PCI-X pci-Express?
[03:10:00] xris: LedHed: express is -e
[03:10:00] LedHed: thats what I thought...
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[03:11:00] gf: is there a way to undo an echo command?
[03:11:00] xris: gf: vim
[03:11:00] gf: i wish i knew what that meant
[03:11:00] xris: well, depends on what you echoed to.. echo doesn't do anything by itself
[03:11:00] xris: echo just prints something to the screen
[03:12:00] xris: gf: vim is a (rather cryptic, unfortunately) text editor.
[03:12:00] gf: ah i found it
[03:12:00] xris: try nano if you're new to linux
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[03:12:00] gf: gedit is good :)
[03:12:00] xris: yay for Good Eats... almost done with my complete collection.
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[03:14:00] LedHed: xris you ever run a 3ware card in a 32bit pci slot?
[03:15:00] xris: personally, no... but there are plenty of 32 bit 3ware cards.
[03:15:00] xris: kormoc has one, I think.
[03:15:00] xris: I manage a server for a friend with one, too... at least, I think it's a 32 bit card.
[03:15:00] LedHed: mine is a 64bit card in a 32bit slot....
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[03:16:00] xris: afk
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[03:36:00] grendel970: anyone using preset debian packages for all mythplugins and a compiled one? I'm having problems getting libmythgame working
[03:37:00] Agrajag-: i wouldn't mix source and packages
[03:37:00] grendel970: everything is stable and all I need is mythgame
[03:37:00] gf: compile everything
[03:38:00] Agrajag-: grendel970: it'll be a pain. you'll have to make sure you compile in the same way (same compiler/version probably), you'll have to change the --prefix and such, so you'll end up with files that aren't packagemanaged in the wrong place
[03:39:00] Agrajag-: it's much easier to compile everything yourself
[03:39:00] grendel970: it would be if I hadn't spent a month with what little time I have getting this working
[03:39:00] grendel970: and now its all stable, except all I need is mythgame
[03:39:00] grendel970: but of course I Don't realise that till its done
[03:40:00] Agrajag-: well all you have to do is remove the packages, compile from source – you shouldn't have to change any myth settings, as the db can remain
[03:41:00] k-man (n=jason@unaffiliated/k-man) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:41:00] k-man: anyone know how i can find out, in a shell script, the name of the X Layout I'm currently using
[03:41:00] k-man: i want to write a script that automaticaly loads mythtv-frontend only on my TV-Out display
[03:41:00] k-man: when X starts
[03:42:00] grendel970: if [ -z $DISPLAY ];
[03:42:00] grendel970: then
[03:42:00] grendel970: if [ `tty` == "/dev/tty1" ];
[03:42:00] grendel970: then
[03:42:00] grendel970: startx
[03:42:00] grendel970: exit
[03:42:00] grendel970: else
[03:42:00] grendel970: echo not starting X
[03:42:00] grendel970: fi
[03:42:00] grendel970: else
[03:42:00] grendel970: echo display not set
[03:42:00] grendel970: fi
[03:42:00] Agrajag-: ... can you not do that
[03:43:00] Agrajag-: k-man: did you get the dual screens working?
[03:43:00] k-man: Agrajag-, no
[03:43:00] k-man: i gave up
[03:43:00] k-man: i can get TV out working
[03:43:00] Agrajag-: :(
[03:44:00] k-man: only not at the same time as
[03:44:00] k-man: as the normal display
[03:44:00] k-man: it doesn't matter
[03:44:00] Agrajag-: can you explain what you're trying to do again? i dont get it
[03:44:00] k-man: in the long run i won't have the monitor connected
[03:44:00] k-man: oh
[03:44:00] splat1 is now known as splAt1
[03:44:00] k-man: i just wanted to be able to work on the box while watching TV
[03:45:00] k-man: so have my LCD screen as a desktop
[03:45:00] k-man: and display mythtv on the TV-out on the tv
[03:45:00] k-man: grendel970, what does that do?
[03:46:00] PatrickDK: k-man, is the tv-out and monitor on the same video card?
[03:47:00] Agrajag-: k-man: no i mean with the shell script thing
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[03:47:00] Agrajag-: PatrickDK: yeah. he's using a fx5200
[03:47:00] PatrickDK: hmm, that should be a simple xorg.conf setup issue
[03:47:00] k-man: PatrickDK, yeah
[03:48:00] k-man: oh
[03:48:00] k-man: Agrajag-, i have setup X to load automaticaly on both TV-out and normal monitor
[03:48:00] k-man: 2 seperate x sessions
[03:48:00] k-man: and i set gdm to log in automaticaly
[03:48:00] Agrajag-: ah right ok i getcha
[03:48:00] PatrickDK: using display 0?
[03:48:00] k-man: and to run mythfrontend automaticaly
[03:49:00] Agrajag-: hmm. im not sure if you can find out what layout you're using
[03:49:00] k-man: but i only want mythfrontend to run automaticaly if i log in on the tv desktop
[03:49:00] k-man: yeah
[03:49:00] k-man: i think i can use the display 0 and 1 to determine
[03:49:00] PatrickDK: ya sure?
[03:49:00] k-man: it would be better if i could detect the X layout
[03:49:00] PatrickDK: should be :0.1
[03:49:00] k-man: no
[03:50:00] k-man: its two seperate X sessions
[03:50:00] PatrickDK: hmm
[03:50:00] k-man: with seperate logins
[03:50:00] PatrickDK: how are you loading two Xsessions?
[03:50:00] k-man: i edited gdm.conf
[03:50:00] k-man: to enable 2 sessions
[03:50:00] PatrickDK: I'm not loading gdm
[03:50:00] k-man: and told it the second session was to use a different layout
[03:50:00] k-man: its pretty cool actually
[03:50:00] PatrickDK: I do that too
[03:50:00] k-man: ctrl+alt f8 and f7 to switch between them
[03:50:00] PatrickDK: but the second session overwrites the first
[03:51:00] PatrickDK: when I shutdown the second one, I can use the first again
[03:51:00] PatrickDK: annoying
[03:51:00] Agrajag-: k-man: if you know that it's :1.0, just use that to start mythfrontend
[03:52:00] Agrajag-: k-man: as in DISPLAY=:1.0 mythfrontend
[03:52:00] Agrajag-: i dont think you can easily detect the current layout in a shell script
[03:52:00] k-man: hmm
[03:52:00] k-man: yeah
[03:52:00] k-man: ok
[03:52:00] k-man: ill try that
[03:54:00] Agrajag-: check to see if one is already running though, you dont want two starting
[03:57:00] k-man: Agrajag-, yeah, good point
[03:57:00] k-man: that might be enough, just doing that
[03:58:00] k-man: how do you check if the fe is running already?
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[03:58:00] Agrajag-: something like
[03:58:00] feld: hey all
[03:59:00] feld: i'm preppin to setup a mythtv box. just looking for some info.
[03:59:00] Agrajag-: PID=`pidof mythfrontend`; if [ "x$PID" == "x" ]; then # not running; else #already running; fi
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[04:00:00] Agrajag-: k-man: actually, are the displays different res? this is a bit of a hack, but you could use xwininfo -root, grep for width or height, then you know
[04:00:00] abarbaccia: hey all – anybody can tell me why i can't rip a DVD in any quality besides perfect? the options dont show up
[04:00:00] feld: Hauppauge PVR-350 is what I just ordered — anyone have any experience with it?
[04:01:00] k-man: Agrajag-, yeah, thats not a bad idea
[04:01:00] k-man: they are different res
[04:03:00] PatrickDK: hmm, running commercial flagging realtime uses some cpu power
[04:03:00] k-man: feld, what distro?
[04:03:00] SqWaw: i've heard of people not liking the 350, as compared to the 250 and 500
[04:03:00] PatrickDK: 350 should be same as 250, if you only record with it
[04:04:00] PatrickDK: setting up tv out on it can be alittle more fun
[04:04:00] PatrickDK: mainly just getting X on it
[04:04:00] feld: k-man i'm up for suggestions. i can run anything.
[04:05:00] k-man: feld, i'm a debian boy personaly
[04:05:00] feld: i run ubuntu right now
[04:05:00] k-man: ubuntu might be good
[04:05:00] feld: i used to run Gentoo
[04:05:00] k-man: feld, whats your linux expereince like?
[04:05:00] k-man: oh
[04:05:00] k-man: gentoo
[04:05:00] k-man: yeah
[04:05:00] k-man: don't know anything about it
[04:05:00] k-man: so can't comment
[04:05:00] k-man: lunch bbl
[04:06:00] feld: http://revision3.com/systm/mythtv/ --- they reccommend knoppmyth?
[04:08:00] DarkBeer: i'm ready to punt my 350
[04:09:00] ** burly runs gentoo and loves it **
[04:10:00] feld: DarkBeer why?
[04:10:00] feld: whats wrong with the 350
[04:10:00] feld: cuz i can still cancel my order i think
[04:11:00] DarkBeer: problems with playback. I'm sure it is just me, or perhaps something else in my hardware, but I can record fine, but lockup on playback. anywhere from 1 min to 45 mins into playback
[04:11:00] feld: I wanted the 350 because it can do audio out and tv out
[04:11:00] protonchris: I have a 350 and it works great for me.
[04:11:00] feld: so i didnt need anything else to do it for me
[04:11:00] DarkBeer: i may try setting it up to play through the nvidia
[04:11:00] feld: protonchris specs of your box?
[04:11:00] protonchris: TV-out was a little of a pain.
[04:12:00] DarkBeer: feld: like I said, I'm sure I'm just missing something as there are plenty running the 350 fine
[04:12:00] feld: yeah i just want it to work heh
[04:12:00] protonchris: feld: AMD64, 1GB RAM, big hard drive
[04:12:00] DarkBeer: yeah, me too :|
[04:12:00] feld: i'm throwing in an 80 gig hard drive... should suffice for now.
[04:12:00] protonchris: I have a 200GB and I was surprise how fast I used it up.
[04:13:00] feld: i was looking up Tivo info
[04:13:00] feld: and they have a 40 gig hard drive
[04:13:00] feld: basic quality = 23 hours, highest quality = 11 hours
[04:13:00] DarkBeer: anyone know of anything in general with a Dell Dimension that would cause me issues? 3Ghz 1 gig ram, 160 gig drive. Not currently using the included nvidia card, using the 350
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[04:13:00] feld: so i figured an 80 gig would do me fine for now. and if my GF fills it up with shows i'll make her buy a larger hard drive.
[04:14:00] abarbaccia: feld
[04:14:00] abarbaccia: feld, mythtv can also convert the files to xvid which is much smaller = lots more time
[04:14:00] feld: wha-hay.... couldnt I potentially take the 80 gig hard drive and like a smaller... 40 and mount the 40 where mythtv saves the shows so i have more space?
[04:14:00] abarbaccia: feld, yes, use LVM
[04:15:00] feld: LVM? n
[04:15:00] feld: i've never used it
[04:15:00] feld: i know what it is tho
[04:15:00] abarbaccia: feld, its logical volume management – lets you add drives dynamically to expand the size of a "partition" which spans multiple drives
[04:15:00] feld: i dont know why a simple FSTAB entry wouldnt suffice
[04:15:00] abarbaccia: feld, because myth wants to write to one location, which can't have 2 drives mounted to it
[04:15:00] feld: abarbaccia and thats the info i needed :D thanks
[04:16:00] abarbaccia: feld, no problem
[04:16:00] feld: i was thinking something like that might be an issue
[04:16:00] feld: because, u know, it wants to keep a stream of data... and well, multiple drives could get confusing for it.
[04:16:00] abarbaccia: thats not the issue
[04:17:00] feld: then what really is?
[04:17:00] abarbaccia: its just that you have to specify where its going to be writing to – but 2 drives cant be mounted in the smae directory
[04:17:00] MrNeutron: The last few days, I've noticed that my listings are missing any show that starts after 10:00PM and doesn't end before or at midnight. How can I figure out if I'm getting bad data or if it's a bug? I use Zap2It.
[04:18:00] abarbaccia: MrNeutron, i've heard of people having "incomplete data" in the post 10 PM time
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[04:19:00] burly: LVM works awesome
[04:19:00] burly: I am using LVM on top of RAID5 for my backend server
[04:19:00] MrNeutron: abarbaccia: So it's probably bad data, then? Has it been discussed on the mailing list? I keep up to date on it, but I haven't seen it come up.
[04:19:00] abarbaccia: burly, what advantage does that give you?
[04:20:00] burly: abarbaccia: i can resize the partitions as needed
[04:20:00] abarbaccia: MrNeutron, no idea – just heard it in here once
[04:20:00] abarbaccia: burly, gotcha
[04:20:00] burly: so if i need to shrink a partition to free up some space, or grow one to give it more, I can do it with the data intact
[04:20:00] GreyFoxx: It's not "bad data". It's just missing data
[04:20:00] abarbaccia: GreyFoxx, indeed
[04:20:00] GreyFoxx: It's like this, myth by default will grab 12 days of data, but zap2it doesn't always have the primetime hours info that far ahead
[04:20:00] MrNeutron: GreyFoxx: yeah, I consider that bad.
[04:20:00] feld: ok so what can i use for minimum specs for my mythtv box with this pvr-350
[04:21:00] abarbaccia: feld, VERY minimum
[04:21:00] MrNeutron: GreyFoxx: I don't even have it for tonight. Even after manually running mythfilldatabase.
[04:21:00] abarbaccia: i've heard of P3 800MHz 128 ram
[04:21:00] GreyFoxx: and each day when mythfilldatabase runs it refreshes tomorrow, and grabs the 12th day in the future
[04:21:00] feld: well i wont go any lower than 256 ram most likely
[04:21:00] abarbaccia: ye
[04:21:00] abarbaccia: a
[04:21:00] GreyFoxx: eventually the data that was "missing" 10–12 days in the future makes it to "now"
[04:21:00] feld: ram is so precious... i have 2 gigs right now. next pc i build will have 4.
[04:21:00] abarbaccia: that was VERY minimum
[04:22:00] feld: i was thinking maybe like an 1800+ or tbird or maybe a 2200+ OC'd.... just random thoughts....
[04:22:00] GreyFoxx: normally when mythfilldatabase renews tomorrows data it will get a complete listing cause zap2it has a complete listing for "tomorrow"
[04:22:00] feld: RAM speed — is that crucial? should I be shooting for a DDR400 setup?
[04:23:00] GreyFoxx: MrNeutron: There is a flag (which I assume is in 0.18 release if that's what you are running" to force mythfilldatabase to refresh todays lineup that you can try
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[04:30:00] feld: anyone on the RAM?
[04:31:00] GreyFoxx: the what ?
[04:32:00] feld: RAM for the mythbox
[04:32:00] feld: is speed a crucial issue
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[04:32:00] feld: would i be better off if i go for a ddr 400 setup
[04:32:00] feld: or is it not really gonna matter
[04:33:00] GreyFoxx: not likely gonna matter
[04:33:00] GreyFoxx: CPU, and HD access are likely your biggest killers
[04:34:00] MrNeutron: After a "mythfilldatabase --refresh-today", I only have holes on the 1st, 2nd, 5th, and 12th of September. The 12th is the last day I have data for.
[04:38:00] xris: feld: for a pvr-350 you could get away with a 5400 rpm drive and a p3 700
[04:38:00] xris: if you're not using the output from the 350, you don't need the 350
[04:39:00] feld: xris well i have a 7200rpm hard drive waiting for it
[04:39:00] feld: i'm using the TV out from that 350. thats the reason i ordered it — tv and audio out straight from it — dont have to buy anything else (hopefully)
[04:39:00] xris: just saying... 350 does 95% of the work in and out... and as long as the drive can pull faster than 2G/hour, you're fine.
[04:39:00] xris: feld: well, except that you'll ONLY get tv. no mythmusic, etc.
[04:40:00] xris: no accidentally transcoding files to remove commercials, either.
[04:40:00] feld: xris eh what about the commercials?
[04:41:00] xris: 350 can *only* play mpeg data... if you cut commercials and transcode the file to remove them for good, you end up with mpeg4...
[04:41:00] feld: ok now i'm lost — i'd be better off with a 250 and a matrox and a SB Live?
[04:41:00] xris: depends on what you want to do
[04:42:00] feld: well i want it to be very funtional
[04:42:00] feld: *functional
[04:42:00] xris: personally, I'd rather be able to use the machine for other stuff.
[04:42:00] feld: and removing commercials sounds kickass
[04:42:00] xris: well, reencoding to mpeg4 has its disadvantages, too... personally, I just reencode everything to avi..
[04:42:00] xris: but the 350 will prevent you from using other functions of mythtv like mythmusic and mythvideo.
[04:43:00] feld: argh!
[04:43:00] xris: were I to build a new box, it'd be a 150, some type of nvidea card and sblive.
[04:43:00] feld: now i'm pissed
[04:43:00] feld: i didnt think that something high end would fuck me
[04:43:00] PatrickDK: it's just a mpeg2 decoder
[04:43:00] PatrickDK: it's not highend
[04:43:00] xris: 350 is WAY overpriced... it's designed for use with slow CPU machines and semi-embedded devices like a tivo
[04:43:00] PatrickDK: video card + computer + soundcard alot more expensive
[04:44:00] GreyFoxx: You can still use mythvideo with a 350, but honestly it's not worth the cash
[04:44:00] PatrickDK: with a 350, you can get away with a 300–500mhz computer easily
[04:44:00] PatrickDK: otherwise you will spend your money on cpu power or a good videocard
[04:44:00] feld: well here's what i wanted to do:
[04:45:00] PatrickDK: I'm trying to figure out why my svideo looks like crap out of my 350 right now
[04:45:00] feld: watch tv, record tv, somehow possibly remove commercials, re-encode to other formats (avi, etc), possibly watch vids off the box
[04:45:00] feld: use the remote
[04:45:00] feld: maybe watch DVDs off it with a dvd drive?
[04:45:00] PatrickDK: you can do all, except watch vids, unless they are mpeg2, and you add them into the recordedshows section
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[04:45:00] xris: well, you can reencode just fine.. just won't be able to watch them easily on the same box.
[04:46:00] GreyFoxx: feld: Seriously, if you are not stuck with a low power CPU, there is no good reason to get a 350
[04:46:00] xris: GreyFoxx: someone should write a big warning message and put it on mythtv.org
[04:46:00] GreyFoxx: yeah
[04:46:00] feld: GreyFoxx i have no CPU right now. thats my situation. i'm trying to figure out what i need to get... it might be free, i might have to buy.
[04:46:00] PatrickDK: 2+ghz
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[04:47:00] PatrickDK: maybe 1.4ghz with a good video card
[04:47:00] GreyFoxx: feld: If you have ahardware encoder (250,150, whate3ver) then any 1.2ghz machine would be fine. Of course the more CPU the better
[04:47:00] feld: define good video card PatrickDK
[04:47:00] PatrickDK: mpeg2/mpeg4 decoder
[04:47:00] GreyFoxx: and for your own sake I would stick withy a nvidia card, they have better driver support
[04:47:00] feld: well of course nvidia :D
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[04:48:00] GreyFoxx: I've got GF4MX 440's in all of my PC based frontends
[04:48:00] feld: ok so basicly what i've learned is that u shouldnt expect the capture cards to do anything else but capture
[04:48:00] PatrickDK: or basic tv out
[04:48:00] feld: mx440s is what i was about to ask about lol
[04:49:00] travolta: gf4mx, wow you are so rich, i have a gf2mx
[04:49:00] xris: feld: 350 output is apparently very good... but it's limited functionality.
[04:49:00] PatrickDK: 350 with encode/decode running, draws about 2% of my cpu
[04:49:00] PatrickDK: 850mhz
[04:49:00] feld: i am just afraid i'll be like "this would be cool" then i'm like "damnit i cant do that with this thing!!!"
[04:49:00] GreyFoxx: xris: And unless you have crappy tv out on your video card it's not that much better. I did a side by side comparision on Thursday and Friday nights
[04:49:00] xris: feld: which is why most of us try to dissuade people from getting one.
[04:50:00] xris: GreyFoxx: ahh, cool.
[04:50:00] feld: well its coming.
[04:50:00] feld: lol
[04:50:00] feld: no stopping it.
[04:50:00] xris: yeah, I like the svideo out on my pundit. and I hear that nvidia is as good as or better...
[04:50:00] xris: feld: could refuse the shipment.
[04:50:00] feld: i guess i could NOT use the ouput on it.
[04:50:00] xris: then you'd only be out the cost of shipping.
[04:50:00] feld: xris yeah but i want this shit running very soon lol
[04:50:00] GreyFoxx: feld: a lot of 350 owners don't use the decoder on it :)
[04:50:00] xris: and get yourself a 150 with its better chroma filter (or whatever it is)
[04:51:00] feld: rofl what the hell
[04:51:00] feld: so you're tellin me that this company shells out hardware where the newer supposedly better stuff is missing features
[04:51:00] travolta: why get a pvr350 if you arent using the decoder?
[04:51:00] xris: huh? 150 is about 2 years newer than 350
[04:51:00] GreyFoxx: feld: You cannot assume that a higher number = newer
[04:52:00] feld: oh really?
[04:52:00] feld: talk about retarded naming convention
[04:52:00] xris: 150 and 500 are the newest cards...
[04:52:00] GreyFoxx: the 150 is arelacement for the 250,
[04:52:00] GreyFoxx: the 350 is a 250 with a decoder
[04:52:00] PatrickDK: people have the 500 working descently well?
[04:52:00] GreyFoxx: the 500 = 2 150's on one card
[04:52:00] xris: PatrickDK: yes
[04:52:00] feld: o cool so with a 500 u get a kick ass deal :D
[04:52:00] PatrickDK: I was planning on getting 2 or 3 of them soon
[04:52:00] xris: drivers are pretty good now, with the occasional bug release thrown in to remind people it's beta.
[04:53:00] xris: feld: sort of. 1 x 500 costs slightly more than 2 x 150
[04:53:00] GreyFoxx: feld: I don't think it's pricewise a better deal. But if you are limited in the number of pci slots it would be an options
[04:53:00] xris: and if you use the composite or svideo inputs, you still need to use up a slot on the back of the machine for the breakout panel.
[04:54:00] PatrickDK: or modify it and cut the proper holes into your case :)
[04:54:00] feld: ok so REALLY it would be most beneficial for me to get a 150, gfmx, and a sb live?
[04:54:00] xris: PatrickDK: that, too
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[04:54:00] xris: feld: that's the general opinion of most people here.
[04:54:00] feld: xris well damnit.
[04:54:00] feld: i'm starting to think thats a better idea as well
[04:55:00] feld: i might just order that too. and just refuse the 350 shipment
[04:55:00] xris: just put a sticker on your door that says "REFUSE delivery from xxxx "
[04:55:00] MrNeutron: My 500 works great, but I had to change my motherboard because the VIA chipsets don't play well with it.
[04:55:00] xris: worst case, you're out the shipment cost, rather than the whole cost of the 350
[04:55:00] feld: well its an apartment — they have to come up to my door when i'm home anyway
[04:55:00] feld: yeah i agree xris
[04:55:00] feld: price is crucial to me right now too
[04:55:00] feld: but 150 is a REAL hardware decoder so i'm not gonna eat up CPU?
[04:56:00] feld: cuz 150 is the new 250?
[04:56:00] xris: 150 is like $63 at buy.com, and I think there's a 5% coupon
[04:56:00] xris: encoder, not decoder.
[04:56:00] feld: yeah encoder
[04:56:00] PatrickDK: 150 and 250 only encode video
[04:56:00] feld: i'll use a gfmx to decode
[04:56:00] PatrickDK: computer and videocard will decode
[04:56:00] xris: and yes. works like a charm
[04:56:00] xris: feld: you'll use your cpu to decode.
[04:56:00] xris: and the gfmx to scale
[04:56:00] feld: oooh
[04:56:00] feld: i see
[04:57:00] feld: that aint gonna kill me to decode tho is it?
[04:57:00] xris: and do any cool 3d effects for mythmusic
[04:57:00] feld: its harder to encode than to decode, am i right?
[04:57:00] xris: yes
[04:57:00] xris: by far
[04:57:00] feld: ok great
[04:57:00] feld: soooo
[04:57:00] xris: 2G machine is WAY more than enough to do that.
[04:57:00] feld: ok so like a 2200+
[04:57:00] xris: 2.5G machine can handle HD if you ever go that way.
[04:57:00] feld: 256mb ram
[04:58:00] PatrickDK: hmm, that ram will be pushing it
[04:58:00] feld: (probably not ever HDTV... i'm too poor at this point to get an HDTV)
[04:58:00] PatrickDK: mythtv likes to use 180megs
[04:58:00] xris: PatrickDK: pushing it, but it works.
[04:58:00] PatrickDK: just saying
[04:58:00] xris: 384 is generally considered the minimum
[04:58:00] PatrickDK: but then, I love my harddrie cache :)
[04:58:00] xris: but 256 works
[04:58:00] feld: k
[04:58:00] feld: i'll get 512 then. whatever.
[04:58:00] feld: pc2700 okay?
[04:58:00] xris: plenty
[04:58:00] PatrickDK: I'm using 60meg for backend, and 90meg for frontend right now
[04:59:00] travolta: my xbox has 64 megs of ram and mythtv can play back recorded shows fine
[04:59:00] PatrickDK: 66meg for commercialflagging
[04:59:00] travolta: non-hd content
[04:59:00] ** xris tries to remember to see how much memory something uses **
[04:59:00] PatrickDK: travolta, that isn't doing encode/decode/commflag
[04:59:00] travolta: yea, just playback only
[04:59:00] PatrickDK: hmm, I have mysql setup for 80megs
[04:59:00] xris: total used on my fc3 mythbox is 190M actually used
[05:00:00] PatrickDK: maybe I should tell it to use my mysql server that is setup for 8gigs of ram
[05:00:00] xris: 450M including shared
[05:00:00] xris: PatrickDK: that's insane.
[05:00:00] xris: heh. mythtv + memcached.
[05:00:00] PatrickDK: xris, no it's not, 8gig ram for mysql
[05:00:00] PatrickDK: it does like 600 requests per second
[05:00:00] xris: PatrickDK: for a home use database server, 8G is insane
[05:01:00] PatrickDK: no, not home use
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[05:01:00] PatrickDK: it's in a datacenter
[05:01:00] xris: less insane, though
[05:01:00] xris: s/though/then
[05:01:00] PatrickDK: I have killed 3 computers with that load
[05:01:00] xris: that's not load.
[05:01:00] xris: heh
[05:01:00] PatrickDK: the new computer has worked for over a year now
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[05:01:00] PatrickDK: xris, no, harddrive faiures
[05:01:00] xris: ah
[05:02:00] PatrickDK: and yes, ALOT of random i/o seeks
[05:02:00] xris: one of my best friends works for livejournal... someone apparently tried to DOS them today, and they didn't even notice the 10M spike in bandwidth
[05:02:00] PatrickDK: ya, I have 2gigabit connection
[05:02:00] PatrickDK: the datacenter has around 20 or so gigabit
[05:02:00] xris: apparently they average 250–350Mbit
[05:02:00] PatrickDK: they run a site like livejournal
[05:02:00] xris: constant
[05:02:00] PatrickDK: digitalexpressions.nu
[05:03:00] xris: ahh
[05:03:00] PatrickDK: this is about peak time for it too
[05:04:00] xris: that kind of bandwidth just blows my mind. heh.
[05:04:00] PatrickDK: heh, it's fun
[05:04:00] PatrickDK: the only pain, is watching the computers for people abusing it
[05:04:00] PatrickDK: mainly by mistake
[05:04:00] PatrickDK: or runaway processes
[05:05:00] PatrickDK: but I have found multicpu servers help with that ALOT
[05:05:00] xris: heh, just asked.. livejournal has 32G of ram cache (multiple machines linked via memcached)
[05:05:00] PatrickDK: atleast I haven't had any threaded apps go nuts yet
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[05:06:00] xris: Brad (the original author) is a smart guy.... tends to rewrite portions of major programs to make them work properly.
[05:06:00] xris: but that memory is just data cache.. not including mysql query caches, etc.
[05:06:00] xris: memcached rocks.
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[05:08:00] PatrickDK: I'll have to look at it
[05:08:00] PatrickDK: database speed isn't an issue
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[05:08:00] PatrickDK: the server can more than handle it
[05:08:00] PatrickDK: but it looks interesting
[05:09:00] xris: it's cool. used by most big opensource-friendly sites like /. and wikipedia.
[05:09:00] PatrickDK: I hope it's not linux only
[05:09:00] xris: no clue
[05:09:00] xris: might run on bsd
[05:10:00] xris: seriously unlikely to run on non-*nix
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[05:12:00] PatrickDK: hmm, would have to watchfor race conditions with that carefully
[05:12:00] PatrickDK: anyplace you update the database, you have to update that too, or your screwed
[05:12:00] PatrickDK: other than that, it looks good
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[05:17:00] feld: what has better support — pvr 150 or 250
[05:17:00] xris: feld: 250 is more stable
[05:17:00] xris: well, drivers are
[05:17:00] feld: well then that would be the better idea, eh?
[05:18:00] xris: alpha driver support is fine, imho...
[05:18:00] xris: I think they're nearing a stable release that supports the 150.
[05:18:00] feld: anyone here running a 150?
[05:18:00] xris: I do
[05:18:00] feld: and you have had no problems?
[05:18:00] xris: not in many months.
[05:19:00] feld: cool
[05:19:00] feld: hey is there a gfmx card with coax out?
[05:19:00] feld: err bah that makes no sense
[05:19:00] travolta: i wished hauppage would release drivers for linux, i dont even care if its binary only
[05:19:00] feld: cuz of audio in there
[05:20:00] feld: well i need to get from a gfmx card to my RCA inputs on my TV
[05:20:00] feld: so i guess i need a stupid svideo converter?
[05:20:00] xris: feld: most do... but you're likely thinking rf, not composite (both are coax)
[05:21:00] xris: you'd want svideo or composite, anyway.. rf has all kinds of interference problems.
[05:21:00] feld: yeah ok
[05:21:00] PatrickDK: svideo is coax too
[05:21:00] PatrickDK: just two coax
[05:21:00] xris: PatrickDK: that'd be duax
[05:21:00] feld: PatrickDK u lost me lol
[05:21:00] PatrickDK: no
[05:21:00] PatrickDK: duax has two signals and one shield
[05:21:00] xris: PatrickDK: oh, my bad.
[05:21:00] PatrickDK: svideo has two signal and two shields
[05:22:00] xris: feld: coax refers to the wire, not the plug
[05:22:00] PatrickDK: well, twinax atleast
[05:22:00] feld: oh roger
[05:23:00] xris: anyway, if nvidia works like ati does, they provide a plug that *looks* like svideo, and works like svideo, but also includes pins for composite that you can get at via an adapter that they give out with some cards.
[05:23:00] xris: or you can get cards that have a normal composite jack on them.
[05:24:00] feld: oooh
[05:25:00] tomimo (n=kurre@a84-231-4-152.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[05:25:00] xris: svideo >= composite >= rf
[05:26:00] PatrickDK: dvi >=component >= svideo >= composit >= rf
[05:26:00] PatrickDK: I suppose
[05:26:00] PatrickDK: dvi/hdmi
[05:26:00] travolta: look outside your window, real life >> svideo
[05:27:00] travolta: :)
[05:27:00] PatrickDK: that depends on a clean window
[05:27:00] travolta: true
[05:27:00] xris: PatrickDK: yes, the full list
[05:27:00] travolta: then just open it
[05:27:00] xris: travolta: and the amount of light outside.
[05:27:00] xris: currently, outside to me looks like a bunch of dead pixels
[05:27:00] PatrickDK: and the amount of clothing being worn by the other sex
[05:28:00] PatrickDK: dunno, svideo still looks bad on my 350
[05:28:00] PatrickDK: composite is fine
[05:29:00] PatrickDK: it just looks too white
[05:29:00] travolta: rf is the thing you record from on a pvr250 card yea? if so then why would having tv out from rf be bad?
[05:30:00] PatrickDK: no, rf = signal
[05:30:00] xris: travolta: each time it runs through that wire, you get interference added to the mix.
[05:31:00] xris: sort of like recording vhs -> vhs -> vhs
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[05:31:00] travolta: i see
[05:31:00] PatrickDK: heh, quadshield rg6 :)
[05:32:00] xris: travolta: put it this way.. rf and composite are both basically 2 wires.. composite holds one video signal, rf holds dozens of video and audio.
[05:34:00] PatrickDK: hmm, I don't get it
[05:35:00] protonchris: feld: did you make a decision on the specs of your new machine?
[05:35:00] feld: protonchris i think so
[05:35:00] protonchris: feld: Lets hear them.
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[05:36:00] feld: pvr-250, xp 2200+, 512mb pc 2700, gfmx 4000 with composite out, sb live
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[05:36:00] protonchris: why did you decide the 250 over the 150?
[05:36:00] xris: feld: be careful where you get the 250. I think there are still some that don't work with linux.
[05:36:00] feld: i was gonna get it from newegg
[05:36:00] feld: along with everything else
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[05:37:00] feld: ooh i said 250!
[05:37:00] feld: i meant 150
[05:39:00] protonchris: xris: does he need to be careful when ordering the 150?
[05:39:00] xris: no
[05:39:00] xris: just decide on mce vs retail
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[05:40:00] xris: (retail has a remote, mce has rca-style audio input jacks)..
[05:43:00] PatrickDK: I think the serial adaptor for remote is nicer
[05:43:00] PatrickDK: doesn'tlimit you to just a hauppage compadible remote (RC5)
[05:44:00] PatrickDK: I wonder if there is any work on getting sony s.link working on a computer
[05:45:00] PatrickDK: click record on the vcr, and computer will start recording also
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[05:46:00] travolta: why not just click record on the computer , and computer will start recording
[05:46:00] xris: PatrickDK: since sony has dropped the format, I doubt it.
[05:47:00] feld: my whole PC has come to a grand total of .... 360 dollars
[05:47:00] xris: feld: nice
[05:47:00] feld: now i just need to refuse the card thats coming
[05:47:00] feld: and buy all the parts
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[05:47:00] feld: not bad for a device that has more functionality than you can shake a stick at, and it keeps getting better ALL THE TIME!
[05:48:00] travolta: youre not done yet, you still got to install and set it up
[05:48:00] feld: travolta that will be the easy part
[05:48:00] travolta: lol
[05:48:00] travolta: maybe, maybe not
[05:48:00] feld: easy because its fun
[05:48:00] feld: and easy because it seems like the knoppmyth forums have guides out there and fixes for every problem for every card
[05:49:00] feld: so i'm not worried
[05:49:00] travolta: and when youre done you can say "my hands made this" :)
[05:49:00] feld: hellz yeah!
[05:49:00] feld: and when i'm done im immediately making an image of the hard drive and burning it so i dont have to start over lol
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[05:51:00] Atamido: Hey, people are trying sleep in here!
[05:51:00] Atamido: Keep it down!
[05:52:00] xris: travolta: and then you can contribute some code and really mean it.  :)
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[05:54:00] awb4422: just installed knoppmyth – so far ive had no problems, but havent tried lirc or or tv-out yet
[05:54:00] travolta: not everyone can code, but they can write documentation, beta test, give feedback, etc :)
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[05:55:00] batdog is now known as batdog|gone
[05:56:00] ** Atamido gives feedback. **
[05:56:00] Atamido: MythFrontEnd crashes!
[05:56:00] xris: travolta: yes. and Idon't think anyone really expects everyone to contribute code.
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[05:58:00] freddy_: omg im desperate...i need to get my tvcard working...please omg :(
[05:58:00] Agrajag-: ok we'll just read your mind and tell you what's wrong shall we
[05:59:00] DarkBeer: omg, you can do that? :P
[05:59:00] freddy_: haha..im sorry its just that im seriously desperate
[05:59:00] Agrajag-: well freddy_ seems to think we can
[05:59:00] freddy_: ok
[05:59:00] freddy_: here i go
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