MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

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Wednesday, June 13th, 2018, 00:04 UTC
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[02:38:24] dblain: stuarta: thanks. I'll keep the VM around in case someone wants to put time into it again.
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[09:52:59] paul-h: stuarta: not sure if you have seen it someone on the forum has reported a problem with the wiki CAPTCHA
[09:53:30] paul-h: https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2672
[09:55:09] ** stuarta looks **
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[10:07:17] paul-h: You get the same error if you try to login to the wiki and use the wrong username or password twice in a row
[10:09:12] paul-h: No idea what username or password I should be using for the wiki now
[10:11:29] stuarta: wiki usernames are unchanged
[10:12:36] stuartm: Long shot, but does anyone have access to samples containing SCTE35 data? I've been working on finishing what Daniel started many years ago, adding support for parsing the entire specification and exporting to string/xml with the pid printer. I have a couple of samples through work but they don't use all the features of the standard so I'm on the hunt for more to test with.
[10:14:31] stuartm: These won't be ordinary broadcasts, SCTE35 is stripped off at the local affiliate side but I figure there are a few people in here who work in broadcasting or who might have received samples from someone who does?
[10:15:58] stuartm: especially interested in splice_schedule and anything using components
[10:32:53] paul-h: For those that don't know this is for the top secret plan to insert adverts into every MythTV users recording but shush..... don't tell anyone \0/
[10:39:41] stuarta: paul-h: i've updated the configuration to "hopefully" use v2 captcha's. i'll reply in the forum
[10:40:45] stuartm: paul-h: :D
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[10:43:45] stuartm: paul-h: it's mostly for the benefit of commercial users of MythTV, though the specific driver in this case was actually advert removal
[10:46:29] stuartm: I've some other stuff in the pipeline which will be of more direct benefit to home users of MythTV, though it's progressing slowly I've been integrating hardware encoding and transcoding support, and plan to re-write the HLS transcoder to allow for near realtime live streaming from MythTV after that.
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[10:51:26] stuartm: oh, and lossless H.264 cutting in mythtranscode is also on the list, sometime in the next year
[10:54:33] paul-h: a lot of people have asked for lossless H.264 cutting so that would be cool
[10:54:58] Steve-Goodey: 13154
[10:56:42] Steve-Goodey: #13154
[10:56:42] ** MythLogBot https://code.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/13154 **
[10:56:52] Steve-Goodey: Ta.
[11:03:09] stuartm: paul-h: Yeah, it's long been on my wishlist though I always felt it was best handled by someone who understood the subject better. Lately I've become more familiar with the issues and the internals of ffmpeg so it was something I think I can now tackle. Plus there's now some interest in the functionality at work so that gives me a legitmate reason to work on it during office hours.
[11:04:40] stuartm: it's a win-win, I get to work on something that personally benefits me at home, and which benefits the company :)
[12:07:29] stuarta: paul-h: user has confirmed the captcha changes have worked \o/
[12:09:26] paul-h: stuarta: thanks one less thing to fix :)
[12:10:07] stuarta: yeah
[12:10:14] paul-h: it would be nice to get the commit emails back up again, I miss them
[12:10:29] stuarta: next 2 most important things are upgrading off EOL fedora, and writing a commit wrangler to get commit emails
[12:10:58] stuarta: github has an email facility, but it's deprecated
[12:11:41] paul-h: wonder what plans Microsoft have for Github and how it will affect us
[12:12:04] stuarta: very little i'd expect
[12:13:46] stuartm: well, they do have a habit of steadily 'improving' products they've acquired in a way that actually makes them much worse
[12:14:06] stuarta: there has been much discussion about that where i work
[12:14:33] stuarta: 1 theory is the "new" M$ isn't the same as the old M$ where "embrace, extend, extinguish" was the norm
[12:16:24] stuarta: right now, i'm going to wait and see.
[12:16:44] stuarta: moving back to hosting our own git instance is doable if it needs doing
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[12:18:42] stuarta: hampton: sounds like you can now reproduce the freebsd10 configure issue
[12:18:50] stuarta: isn't freebsd10 eol tho?
[12:19:20] stuarta: ah no, that's one of their stable series
[12:19:44] stuarta: although it's marked as "legacy"
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[12:31:33] stuartm: the 'new' MS is certainly the narrative they are pushing. I just haven't bought into it yet and even if it is true, I don't think a company that large can have changed so completely that they won't lapse back into previous behaviours at some point down the road.
[12:32:48] stuarta: true, on the other hand the newer execs they have in place don't see open source as the enemy
[12:33:54] stuarta: who knows....
[12:38:39] stuartm: yeah, that much I believe. Their new drive seems to be to get people onto their platforms rather than using their software, the concern is that this approach is suspicously like the first two steps of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. MS haven't even set out to extinguish projects/standards in the past, they've done that just through meddling so much that no-one wants to use them anymore.
[12:39:00] stuarta: indeed
[12:40:01] stuarta: one approach i've heard suggested, is to just use github as the git repo, and do all the other bits (ie bug tracking, etc) elsewhere. this makes complete sense to me, and is what we currently do
[12:40:24] stuartm: They are in many ways like a big clumsy giant which doesn't set out to do harm, yet still manages to leave a wake of destruction
[12:41:58] stuartm: We're using Gitlab at work, self hosted on an internal server, because we'd never really trust putting our code somewhere we don't have control
[12:43:13] stuarta: we also have a gitlab setup internally
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[13:05:50] hampton: stuarta: Yes, I can recreate the freebsd configure error, but won't be able to spend any time on it until next week
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[13:07:57] stuarta: hampton: no worries, it's not like it's a priority
[13:13:28] ** hampton wonders if its related to freebsd installing everything in /usr/local **
[13:17:15] stuarta: entirely possible
[13:22:11] hampton: Yep. If I hack "-L/usr/local/lib" into the test for libmp3lame I can get past that step, but then it fails for libxvid for exactly the same reason. Seems like the --extra-cflags and --extra-ldflags need to be used by the configure script itself, instead of being passed through to the makefiles.
[13:22:44] stuarta: sounds plausible
[13:23:29] hampton: This is in the external/FFmpeg/configure script, not the mythtv configure script. I have a compile running...
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[14:00:38] jafa: DVB – my understanding is the NIT and SDT data is matched with programs in the TS via ONID+TSID+SID... TSID and SID (program number) come from the PAT... where is the ONID found?
[14:01:36] stuarta: i should know this
[14:05:51] jafa: been poking through dvbsnoop and specs... I think I am missing something
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[14:27:45] stuarta: jafa: lemme find the doc you want
[14:29:17] stuarta: nit
[14:29:50] stuarta: also sdt
[14:30:13] stuarta: it's in EIT data too
[14:34:18] jafa: so the idea is to match TSID+SID from the PAT with the NIT/SDT, then use the ONID found in the NIT/SDT?
[14:34:58] jafa: ie the ONID is informational, not a key field for matching the program in the TS
[14:35:08] stuarta: in what context, what information are you trying to stitch together?
[14:36:01] jafa: one layer of code finds the PAT,PMT,ES, etc... another layer reads the NIT/SDT which usually contains lots of data across all channels in the plant
[14:36:10] jafa: making sure I am matching the two up correctly
[14:37:04] stuarta: NIT gives you the mplexes
[14:37:17] stuarta: SDT gives you the "services" aka channels
[14:39:06] stuarta: the PAT tells you where to find the PMT
[14:39:14] stuarta: the PMT tells you where the ES's are
[14:39:29] stuarta: each ES contains audio, video, data....
[14:40:32] stuarta: that's the tl;dr version ;-)
[14:42:09] stuarta: it's a big old tree basically
[14:59:17] jafa: is it possible to have multiple PATs on the same transport, different TSIDs and conflicting program numbers?
[15:00:15] stuarta: in certain countries (typically european cable co's) they blast out all the data for the whole country, and you have to specifically select the networkid for your region
[15:00:30] stuarta: thus to filter down for what you actually need
[15:00:34] jafa: seeing that
[15:00:35] stuarta: we already have support for this
[15:00:56] jafa: wondering if program number is guaranteed to be unique for each program on the same mux
[15:01:04] stuarta: it has to be
[15:02:15] stuarta: you might be seeing the regionallized signalling at the top level, where, say 95% of the channels are identical, with the other 5% being local stuff
[15:02:37] stuarta: in this case I would expect to see duplicated data for the 95% of channels which are shared across all regions
[15:02:39] jafa: example (never seen, might be invalid) – you have two PATs on pid 0, each has a different TSID (different sources stuffed together), program numbers conflict
[15:03:04] stuarta: you've seen an example of that in the wild?
[15:03:07] jafa: or is that inherently valid, that for a mux the program numbers are always unique
[15:03:20] jafa: s/inherently valid/inherently invalid/
[15:03:33] jafa: no, just thinking through corner cases
[15:03:48] stuarta: the ETSI docs describe the can & must stuff
[15:04:05] stuarta: the grey areas allow what the cable co's do
[15:04:48] stuarta: there's also the concept of network id vs original network id
[15:05:20] stuarta: when stuffing together 2 networks onto a new one, you should see the ONID's from both orginal networks, and the NiD of the broadcasting network
[15:05:58] stuarta: don't recall ever seeing it in the wild tho
[15:06:09] jafa: if stuffing the two together into the same mux do the program numbers (service ids) change so as not to conflict with each other?
[15:07:04] stuarta: they have to
[15:07:22] stuarta: you cannot have clashing program numbers on a mux
[15:07:52] stuarta: receivers are very simple bits of hardware fundamentally, in order to keep them cheap
[15:08:52] jafa: ok, makes life easier
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