MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv

Daily chat history

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Friday, November 11th, 2016, 00:00 UTC
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[05:04:50] kukks: FYI – i just got my local opensuse 13.2 build working. Took me some time to get all deps installed (the SPEC file from the packman repo helped a lot..). Stopped the usually running mythbackend.service and started my own one...
[05:07:04] kukks: beside the UHDTV problems all is working "as it did before"
[05:08:16] kukks: i hope i get some time to dig deeper into the seen UHDTV issues
[05:12:24] kukks: regular UHDTV is expected to start in March 2017 – so there's some time left :-)
[05:20:12] kukks: stuarta: btw – thanks for the pointer to the "ansible" stuff. I spent some hours with it – but i get the impression that opensuse needs some work to get that working properly. It's using RPMs, but there are differences to Fedora
[05:21:27] kukks: sure – also the mythtv ansible stuff must be adopted ..
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[09:04:54] stuarta: kukks: i did a specific opensuse playbook
[09:05:05] stuarta: it should use the right one if you run the top level playbook
[09:06:34] stuarta: but feel free to submit patches it needs now, i did that a while ago, and have since lost the hardware i was using
[09:29:06] stuarta: kukks: i take that back, it wasn't opensuse, it was arch linux i did
[09:29:20] stuarta: kukks: it should be pretty easy to write an opensuse specific one
[09:29:47] stuarta: in https://github.com/MythTV/ansible/blob/master/qt5.yml you would add something like
[09:30:13] stuarta: - { role: mythtv-zypper, when: ansible_pkg_mgr == "zypper" }
[09:31:01] stuarta: then clone the roles/mythtv-rpm/ or roles/mythtv-dnf/ trees depending on which package set is closer
[09:31:25] stuarta: this of course assumes ansible understands zypper (and i hope it does)
[09:31:38] stuarta: if not, we can still work the conditional in a different way
[09:34:17] stuarta: for example https://github.com/MythTV/ansible/blob/master . . . sks/main.yml uses the conditionals `when: ansible_distribution == "CentOS"`
[09:35:46] stuarta: and `when: ansible_distribution == "Fedora"`
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[10:51:44] dekarl: kukks, there is no UHDTV in DVB-T2 HD ;)
[10:52:00] dekarl: but 1080p50 is a good start
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[12:57:32] gbee: stuff UHD Premium (HDR)?
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[13:32:30] dekarl: nah, we don't do Premium it has "free" in its name to signal that you are allowed to pay for the DRM'd channels
[13:33:18] stuarta: huh?
[13:34:21] dekarl: I thought gbee might be making fun of the nice names we give to tv services
[13:36:29] gbee is now known as stuartm
[13:37:41] stuartm: nah, just commenting on the fact that as soon as everyone upgraded to HD, we had Ultra HD and just as people bought into that, they introduced HDR (aka UHD Premium)
[13:37:44] dekarl: Germany is moving from free free to air to DRM on DVB-T for only 69 Euros per Device per Year for ad supported channels
[13:37:57] stuarta: ugh, nasty
[13:38:02] stuartm: and meanwhile broadcasters are lagging far behind, so that most channels still only broadcast SD
[13:38:38] stuartm: and not just SD, but really badly encoded SD that looks worse than VHS
[13:39:28] dekarl: ahh, at least the public broadcasters have a set of standard that content is being produced for. Need to collect the links somewhere as I'm having a hard to finding it everytime I want to refer to it...
[13:39:48] dekarl: basically they are producing new content in 1080p for some time
[13:41:02] dekarl: over here to main selling point for DRM HD+ is the bad encoders/bandwidth/filters applied to the SD variants...
[13:41:51] dekarl: so you get the UHD Premium+1 channels and they look almost better then good DVDs ;)
[13:41:52] stuartm: by now they ought to be targetting 4k – I mean even my phone can record in 4k, so there's no excuse for still using 1080p – you can always downscale for broadcast but years from now when they are running repeats ...
[13:43:13] stuartm: it's really very disappointing that the majority of people in this country are oblivious to the low quality of broadcast TV so it will never change
[13:43:39] maddawg3: actually the issue is bandwidth
[13:43:39] stuartm: the picture quality I mean, although the content ain't always that good
[13:43:45] maddawg3: 4k takes up a lot of bandwidth
[13:43:56] maddawg3: and they need to allocate that bandwidth to fit other channels
[13:44:04] stuartm: right, I'm not proposing they switch to 4k just yet
[13:44:14] maddawg3: that's why some providers are looking to move everything to IP so that 4k can be done
[13:44:18] stuartm: but they can start by scraping SD and going to HD
[13:44:23] maddawg3: and allocate all of it to internet
[13:44:33] maddawg3: there are people with SD still
[13:44:50] maddawg3: my aunt and grandmother both have SD tvs
[13:44:54] maddawg3: and so do my friend's parents
[13:44:59] stuartm: and bandwidth isn't the issue, the issue is that they want to cram 200 channels in, when only ~20 are even worth watching
[13:45:05] maddawg3: and i technically ave ONE
[13:45:20] maddawg3: well only 20 might be worth ewatching to you
[13:45:25] maddawg3: but everyone has a different 20 they like
[13:45:34] stuartm: scrap the shopping channels, the channels showing nothing but ancient repeats, the 'community' channels that no-one actually cares about, they'll have more than enough bandwidth
[13:45:35] maddawg3: sure no one watches ALL 200 channels
[13:45:45] maddawg3: no
[13:46:05] maddawg3: they need 4 times the bandwidth for each hd channel they have
[13:46:14] stuarta: maddawg3: that's why they are moving to h265, since it takes up *less* space for a UHD channel than does SD in mpeg2
[13:46:17] maddawg3: they really should just switch to internet based
[13:46:32] maddawg3: and allocate all the bandwidth to just IP traffic
[13:46:50] stuarta: that still provides less bandwidth than what is available to satellite
[13:47:03] stuartm: maddawg3: no they don't need 4x, it's about 2x the bandwidth if you switch from mpeg2 to H.264, and less again if they jump straight to H.265
[13:47:37] stuarta: couple that with the upgraded QAM specs on the mplex, and it easily fits in less space
[13:47:55] stuartm: it's really not the case that those 20 channels are different, no-one for example really enjoys watching QVC and the +1 channels are entirely redundant in the age of catchup and DVRs
[13:47:56] stuarta: QAM16 -> QAM64 provides 4x the bandwidth alone
[13:49:28] stuarta: technically 4x the number of bit states
[13:49:51] maddawg3: my aunt swatches QVC
[13:49:55] maddawg3: she has it on all the time
[13:50:00] stuartm: when I gave the 20 channel figure, that was for all audiences, most people will watch a maximum ~8 different channels, those who object to paying the license fee argue they don't even watch more than a couple of channels in total
[13:50:02] maddawg3: and she is addicted to infomercials
[13:50:07] maddawg3: it's sad really
[13:50:11] stuarta: very
[13:50:18] maddawg3: tho she did buy me a Roomba once
[13:50:22] maddawg3: so that was cool
[13:50:33] ** stuarta issues MEH! **
[13:50:42] maddawg3: prob 12 easy payments of $30
[13:51:02] maddawg3: also my grandmother likes that other shopping channel that sells kitchen stuff
[13:51:05] maddawg3: i cant remember the name of it
[13:51:11] maddawg3: i dont watch it
[13:51:15] maddawg3: she also likes cooking shows
[13:51:20] ** stuarta bans all shopping channels **
[13:51:27] maddawg3: and my grandmother still owns one of those stupid tube tvs
[13:51:28] stuartm: maddawg3: right, but it's addiction rather than entertainment. No-one sits down in the evening and decides that of all the options available for entertainment that QVC is the best
[13:51:44] maddawg3: I have a tube tv too but its in my barn
[13:51:59] maddawg3: well if they enjoy it then it's entertaining
[13:52:00] stuartm: and we definitely don't need three different versions of QVC, in adidtion to all the other shopping channels
[13:52:07] maddawg3: regardless of whether it's addicting or not
[13:52:13] stuarta: crap in HD is still crap
[13:52:24] maddawg3: but they generate money for the cable channels
[13:52:25] maddawg3: err
[13:52:28] maddawg3: cbale providers
[13:52:33] maddawg3: they make great money on those
[13:52:40] maddawg3: hence why they exist
[13:52:56] maddawg3: it's an easy money grab and basically pure profit for the cable providers
[13:53:02] stuartm: we're talking here about UK's public OTA infrastructure
[13:53:21] maddawg3: ah well i i dont know uk other than that yo need to pay for public OTA
[13:53:22] maddawg3: LOL
[13:53:34] maddawg3: i saw a fun youtube video of someone coming to collect money or take the TV
[13:53:37] maddawg3: I was giggling
[13:53:55] stuartm: shopping/gambling channels shouldn't even be allowed space and they won't when I rule the country
[13:54:07] maddawg3: good luck
[13:54:09] maddawg3: :-)
[13:54:17] maddawg3: will you rejoin the EU?
[13:54:21] maddawg3: i hope so
[13:54:22] stuartm: nah
[13:54:30] maddawg3: the world did a facepalm when brexit happened
[13:54:34] stuarta: we haven't even got around to leaving yet
[13:54:48] stuarta: the world did a facepalm when trump won
[13:55:01] stuartm: what have the EU ever done for us?
[13:55:03] maddawg3: then when i didnt think it could get any worse America was like "Yeah, hold my beer" and did an even bigger stunt
[13:55:28] stuarta: stuartm: this reminds me of the monty python sketch "what have the romans ever done for us?"
[13:55:34] stuarta: from life of brian
[13:55:41] stuartm: stuarta: that's what I was going for :)
[13:56:03] stuartm: although, in this case, I actually can't think of anything right now – unlike the Life of Brian sketch
[13:56:22] maddawg3: well actually the EU has helped the UK alot
[13:56:38] maddawg3: they cleaned up the beaches, gave paid holiday time, and improved the air quality of the UK
[13:56:46] maddawg3: plus holidays to other countries were cheaper
[13:56:53] maddawg3: and bottles of wine cost less than before
[13:57:53] stuartm: those were all things the UK could do on it's own, the money spent on it was UK money anyway ... it's not like an army of European volunteers came over and cleaned the beaches out of the goodness of their hearts
[13:59:50] dekarl: oh noes, don't start that... Now all Germans facepalm due to Trump and next year we send our new Chancellor Frauke Petry from the right wing populist nuts to him for visits... I'm seeing it coming ;)
[13:59:57] stuartm: I'll give you the holiday's argument, although, again, reducing the cost of travel to the south of spain (for example) did much more to help the Mediterranean economies, it wasn't a selfless act
[14:02:55] maddawg3: the UK cant guarentee jobs to it's citizens to anywhere in the EU
[14:03:02] stuartm: I think what a lot of people in the UK disliked about the EU was the creeping federalisation, the talk of an EU army answerable directly to Brussels, the lack of direct accountability of EU to citizens etc. I know a lot of people had the perception that the EU was trying to move to the point where it was a nation rather than a simple trading arrangement
[14:03:15] maddawg3: nor can it guarentee cheaper vacation to other countries since there are passport and visa requirements i nthose countries
[14:04:07] dekarl: I'm off to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laternelaufen and lighting the bonfire in the Kindergarten https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Martin%27s_Day#Germany see you around
[14:04:09] stuartm: maddawg3: well, to be fair those things were all possible before the EU existed
[14:05:03] stuartm: we had more or less free travel of Europe before the EU due to various agreements. US citizens similar can travel to the EU with Visas
[14:05:26] stuartm: without visas
[14:05:43] stuartm: anyway, this is way off-topic for the channel
[14:05:44] maddawg3: we cant work there without them
[14:05:50] maddawg3: whereas UK citizrens could
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[14:28:52] stuartm: to quickly circle back to this – Majority of those in the UK would welcome continuation of free movement, trade deals and the rest, just without the EU parliament etc. The best thing the EU could do would be to dismantled the institutions, the bureaucracy, the courts, revert back to the original aspects of the EEC which pretty much everyone still things is worthwhile. Return sovereignty to member governments.
[14:30:35] stuartm: still thinks ...
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[16:51:10] kukks: dekarl: you are right, it's called DVB-T2 HD
[16:53:12] kukks: i think, a technically good starting point about that stuff in Germany is: http://www.tv-plattform.de/images/stories/pdf . . . rmany-v1.pdf
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[17:05:28] kukks: in the future, frequencies above 694 MHz will be taken away from dbv-t and will be used by LTE mobile. With HEVC six channels can be put into one multiplex – atm 4 are usually used
[17:07:15] kukks: and yes – all that DRM stuff is a real mess
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[17:11:54] stuarta: peterbennett: evening!
[17:11:58] peterbennett: stuarta: Hi
[17:13:41] peterbennett: stuarta: I tested removing the ffmpeg patch from my masater and using just the libmythtv/avformatdecoder and the subtitles are working, so something is suspect .
[17:14:05] stuarta: interesting
[17:14:51] peterbennett: stuarta: It looks like the ffmpeg patch may be unneeded. I did not look at the code so maybe I should look into it a bit more,
[17:15:59] peterbennett: stuarta: Anyway maybe a good idea to try the ffmpeg rebase anyway and look at the deprecated warnings as you suggested.
[17:16:59] peterbennett: stuarta: I have my own github repo where I do everything first so nothing will touch the MythTV github until I am ready.
[17:17:39] stuarta: peterbennett: sure, with an ffmpeg resync, it's good to have it on the buildslaves, to get coverage across many platforms
[17:18:50] stuarta: btw this is the stuff i found yesterday http://irc.mythtv.org/ircLog/channel/4/2016-11-10
[17:19:32] peterbennett: stuarta: Can you explain the buildslaves? I it just to test that the build is successful on many platforms, or can people take the packages built there and install them?
[17:19:41] stuarta: the former
[17:19:50] stuarta: we (as a project) don't do packages
[17:20:23] stuarta: you have seen this right? https://code.mythtv.org/buildbot/waterfall
[17:21:06] peterbennett: no.
[17:22:33] stuarta: so essentially we target current LTS releases (so Ubuntu 16.04, any debian stable), Fedora anything not EOL (ie. current & pre), osx, windows, and now the rpi
[17:23:07] stuarta: windows failures will never hold up a release, as that's not a primary platform
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[17:23:52] stuarta: and there's a few others in there too
[17:24:15] peterbennett: Does it happen much that builds fail on one platform when they succeed elsewhere?
[17:24:33] stuarta: sometime, most often in ffmpeg integration ;-)
[17:24:34] peterbennett: That setup looks like it is a lot of work
[17:24:52] stuarta: it's not really a lot of work, the hard stuff was done years ago
[17:25:04] stuarta: now it's mainly updates for new and retiring build slaves
[17:25:39] stuarta: although I do need to port it to the newer buildbot 0.9 series, and move it to a new home, which will be some work
[17:25:54] peterbennett: stuarta: Another subject, mythbuntu going away means the mythbuntu control center is an orphan.
[17:26:08] stuarta: does anyone use that?
[17:26:21] stuarta: i have no idea what it even does
[17:26:41] peterbennett: Even for ubuntu users it was available by installing from the repo
[17:27:07] stuarta: but if it warrants keeping it can always be pulled into one of our repos
[17:27:18] stuarta: just need volunteers to maintain it then
[17:27:39] peterbennett: It has a user interrface that automate a lot of things like adding the PPA, setting up ssh, I forget all that it has
[17:27:50] stuarta: interesting
[17:27:54] ** stuarta has to run off shortly **
[17:28:19] peterbennett: I used it before although I did not have mythbuntu
[17:28:52] peterbennett: maybe we can rename it and add it
[17:29:33] stuarta: maybe, plenty of other things on the todo list. like i said, we would need people to maintain it
[17:30:09] stuarta: i'm happy to get it added to allow others to maintain it
[17:30:24] stuarta: right have to run off, i'll check back here later for anything interesting
[17:30:30] peterbennett: Goodnight
[17:30:30] jams: i would be cautious about adding something specific to a distro
[17:30:46] jams: even if it is the largest userbase for the project
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[18:27:31] stuarta: jams: hopefully it has an upstream that people contribute too
[18:27:37] ** stuarta runs off again **
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[19:03:36] maddawg3: https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-el . . . iscover_feed
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[19:52:50] tgm4883: maddawg3: seems like spam to me
[20:11:39] maddawg3: it's change.org
[20:11:42] maddawg3: a reputable site
[20:11:47] maddawg3: hardly spam
[20:15:44] tgm4883: maddawg3: it's irrelevant to the development of mythtv
[20:15:47] tgm4883: seems like spam to me
[20:16:16] tgm4883: believe it or not, even reputable sites can be considered spam
[20:16:32] maddawg3: no it was on TV i was watching it through my mythtv
[20:16:41] maddawg3: so it was relevant
[20:19:41] tgm4883: maddawg3: that logic is so flawed
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[20:40:05] gbee: and #mythtv-users would be the place even if it wasn't
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[20:43:53] dekarl: kukks: I'm in Germany, too
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[21:31:14] kukks: dekarl: Hi. Do you stay in a region where TVB-T2 HD test-channels are already available?
[21:35:10] kukks: hmm, DVB-T2 HD....
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[21:48:56] kukks: I'm using a TBS-6205 DVB-T2/T/C Quad TV Tuner PCIe Card, where "dvb-fe-tool" only returns: Supported delivery system: [DVBT]. The TBS support team told me "...that on linux they do this by design, because most applications atm don't support the T2 API... But the card runs pretty well!
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